立法會 Legislative Council
LC Paper No. CB(2)938/16-17 (These minutes have been seen by the Administration)
Ref : CB2/HS/1/16
Subcommittee on Retirement Protection
Minutes of meeting held on Thursday, 5 January 2017, at 9:00 am in Conference Room 1 of the Legislative Council Complex
Members : Hon KWOK Wai-keung (Chairman) present Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung Hon Tommy CHEUNG Yu-yan, GBS, JP Hon Jeffrey LAM Kin-fung, GBS, JP Hon Starry LEE Wai-king, SBS, JP Hon Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, GBS, JP Hon Paul TSE Wai-chun, JP Hon LEUNG Kwok-hung Hon YIU Si-wing, BBS Hon CHAN Chi-chuen Hon LEUNG Che-cheung, BBS, MH, JP Dr Hon KWOK Ka-ki Dr Hon Fernando CHEUNG Chiu-hung Hon POON Siu-ping, BBS, MH Dr Hon CHIANG Lai-wan, JP Ir Dr Hon LO Wai-kwok, SBS, MH, JP Hon Alvin YEUNG Hon Andrew WAN Siu-kin Hon CHU Hoi-dick Dr Hon Junius HO Kwan-yiu, JP Hon SHIU Ka-fai Hon SHIU Ka-chun Hon HUI Chi-fung Hon LUK Chung-hung Hon KWONG Chun-yu Hon Nathan LAW Kwun-chung Dr Hon LAU Siu-lai
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Members : Hon Jimmy NG Wing-ka, JP (Deputy Chairman) absent Hon WONG Kwok-kin, SBS, JP Hon CHAN Han-pan, JP Hon Alice MAK Mei-kuen, BBS, JP Hon HO Kai-ming
Public Officers : Item I attending Mr Stephen SUI, JP Under Secretary for Labour and Welfare
Ms Eugenia CHUNG Principal Assistant Secretary for Labour and Welfare (Poverty)
Attendance : Item I by invitation Session One
League of Social Democrats
Mr WONG Ho-ming Vice-chairman (External Affairs)
The Civic Party
Mr SIN Ho-fai Representative
Liberal Party
Mr Joseph CHAN Ho-lim Convener, Economy Panel
Alliance for Universal Pension
Mr Nick CHAN Organizer
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Government Mod 1 Staff General Union
Mr TSUI Yat-keung Executive Committee Member
The Grassrooteer
Ms LEE Choi-kwan Chairlady
Kwai Fong Estate Elderly Rights Concern Group
Mr CHUNG Hau-ping Member
Caretaker Concern Group
Ms CHU Moon-chun Member
Social Development Movement for Hong Kong's Future
Ms LAI Yuen-mei Spokesperson
社工學聯外務部
Mr 蘇雋謙 Member
社工學聯退保關注組
Miss 鄭曉汶 Member
失明人互聯會
Mr CHEUNG Kai-fu Member
Grassroots Development Centre
Mr NG Kin-wing Committee Member
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Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong Diocesan Pastoral Centre for Workers (Hong Kong Island)
Ms Agnes TSANG Lai-shan Program Officer
東區長者關注退休保障組
Ms 張錦笑
爭取落實全民養老金－港島
Ms 馬玉碧
退休保障同學關注組
Mr TSANG Tsz-wang
東區長者退休關注組
Mr 陳澤初
青少年關注退保小組
Miss CHENG Tsz-ting
香港島關注退休事宜小組－青年
Mr Louis LAM Wai-ho
Hong Kong Catholic Commission for Labour Affairs
Miss LAW Pui-shan Policy Research Officer
小巿民關注退休保障生活組
Ms WAN Mei-ha Member
天主教勞工牧民中心－九龍 保安護衛關注組
Mr CHAN Chau-shing
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天主教勞工牧民中心－九龍 單幢大廈物業員關注組
Ms CHOI Wai-fun Member
全民退休保障落實關注組
Mr CHAN Ka-ki Representative
全民退保我有份關注組
Mr CHIANG Wai-kan Representative
青年支持退休保障委員會
Miss TO Ka-man Representative
全民退休保障免審查人人有份關注組
Mr WONG Chun-ming Representative
Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong Diocesan Pastoral Centre for Workers - Kowloon
Mr SIN Chi-man Assistant Program Officer
Liberal Party Youth Committee
Mr Dan CHAN Vice-chair Person
Individual
Mr Joe HO
Individual
Mr Fun CHEUNG
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Individual
Miss Maggie LEE
Individual
Mr Kurt AU
Individual
Miss Regin CHAN
Session Two
中產關注退休保障陣線
Mr CHAN Chi-shing
青年革新
Mr LING San-ting
贏返全民退保行動
Mr LI Chi-pang
青年無全民退保So sad
Mr LAM Sze-yuen
青年退保關注組
Miss TAI Yuet-ching
Tseung Kwan O Universal Pension Concern Network
Mr LAI Wai-tong Member
Promoters and Casual Workers Union
Miss LEUNG Tsz-yan Organizer
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Hong Kong Christian Service
Ms TSANG Yuen-kei Chief Supervisor
Concerning Home Care Service Alliance
Ms Alice ISHIGAMI LEE Fung-king Member
天水圍長者權益關注組
Mr KWOK Man-ho
Neighbourhood and Worker's Service Centre
Mr WONG Yun-tat
Cleaning Workers Union
Ms CHEUNG Po-lai Organizer
The Democratic Party
Mr LAW Ying-cheung Representative
Individual
Mr 許強
Individual
Mr 鄭量之
Women Heatedly Support for Universal Pension
Ms CHAN Po-ying Representative
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將軍澳長者民生關注會
Mr KWONG Wing-tai Representative
Industrial Relations Institute
Ms LAU Yau-chun Organizer
IRI Women's Coop
Ms LEE Sau-kwan Member
The Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour Unions
Mr PUN Chau-man Assistant Research Officer
Momentum 107
Mr Raymond HO Man-kit Convener
Youth ADPL
Mr Kalvin HO Kai-ming Convener
Individual
Mr YUEN Wai-tak
Individual
Ms YIP Mee-yung
Individual
Mr TSE Wai-yue
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全民撐退保社福聯盟
Mr WONG Kwok-kei
Hong Kong Women Workers' Association
Miss LEUNG Wei-ching Organizer
The Hong Kong Council of Social Service
Mr WONG Wo-ping Chief Officer (Social Security and Employment)
Individual
Ms CHUNG Bik-mui
全民退保關注組
Mr CHIU See-poon Member
Individual
Mr LAM Chi-chung
Session Three
Chinese Grey Power
Ms LO Siu-lan Chairlady
Labour Rights Commune
Ms Florence CHEUNG Man-wai Member
Kwai Chung Estate Residents' Rights Concern Group
Mr CHEUNG Kai-bing Secretary
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明愛專上學院社會科學系系會
Mr 彭宇軒 Member
香港社會工作學生聯會
Mr 李裕茂 Member
基層民生關注組
Mr 林超 Representative
爭取退休保障聯盟
Ms 霍美崧 Representative
Individual
Ms NG Yuet-lan Member of Sham Shui Po District Council
老人福利關注組
Mr LAI Ming-lai Representative
Individual
Miss 伍頌恩
Demosisto
Mr CHAN Kok-hin Member
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New Arrival Women League
Mr WONG Kai-hing Community Organizer
Sham Shui Po Community Association
Mr LAU Cheuk-kei Director
Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres
Miss TSOI Sin-man Advocacy Officer
婦女中心退保關注組
Mr LAM Yuk-ki Education officer
WISE pension for women concern group
Miss CHENG Mo-yi Education Officer
香港淋病病人協會
Mr NG Chung-tat
Individual
Mr CHAN Chi-wing
Individual
Miss Theresa YUNG
退而求其次後發現連條毛都冇受害者權益保障協會
Mr WONG Hiu-au
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Individual
Mr WONG Chong-kwan
Individual
Mr 王佐基
Student Christian Movement of Hong Kong
Mr KO Chung-lai
進步教師同盟
Mr 陳智聰 Representative
Hong Kong Christian Service - Elderly Council
Mr LO Chun-hing Member
Individual
Mr LAM Chung-yau
Individual
Mr CHAN Kam-cheong
Individual
Ms LO Lai-ping
葵涌邨長者權益關注組
Mr TSANG Hoi-pang
Evangelical Lutheran Church Social Service - HK
Ms LAM Kam-lee Service Director
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Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions
Mr NG Koon-kwan Organizing Secretary
Session four
Community Cultural Concern
Mr Abraham LAI Representative
Individual
Miss CHOW Wing-heng Member of Sham Shui Po District Council
Hong Kong Domestic Workers General Union
Ms TSE Yin-fei Chairperson
荃灣長者聯合組
Ms BUN Muk-nga Member
Individual
Ms LAM Sin-man
病人自助組織關注全民退保聯席
Miss WONG Tsz-yan Member
Individual
Miss SO Sim-yan
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NeoDemocrats
Mr CHUN Hoi-shing Community Officer
Individual
Mr Frederick FUNG KK
Individual
Mr LEUNG Siu-sun Member of Eastern District Council
Individual
Prof WONG Yu-cheung
The office of Hon HUI Chi-fung Legislative Councillor
Mr SO Yat-hang Community Work Officer
香港聖公會麥理浩夫人中心社區發展部
Mr 吳堃廉
Construction Site Workers General Union
Mr 施志誠
Hong Kong Building Services and Security General Union
Ms 余美雲 Committee Member
Retail, Commerce and Clothing Industries General Union
Miss 陳艷梅 President
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Hong Kong Policy Viewers
Mr KUNG Wai-sum Exco member
HKCTU Youth Affairs Group
Mr YU Hok-man Member
Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong Diocesan Pastoral Centre for Workers - New Territories
Mr Augustine YU Siu-po Centre Supervisor
North District Employment Concern Group
Mr Simon TAM Member
Women Employment Concern Group
Ms LEE Yuk-mei Member
Concern Outsourced Cleaner's Right Group
Mr Jay LEE Lap-chau
North District Grassroot Workers Group
Mr WU Lin-feng
Individual
Mr 熊若水
Individual
Miss Natalie TSUI Wai-fong
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D 錢你架咩俾返 D 錢老人家仗義執言組
Mr 范誠顯
Individual
Mr 林培元
Individual
Mr FU Wai-hon
Clerk in : Miss Betty MA attendance Chief Council Secretary (2) 1
Staff in : Ms Rita LAI attendance Senior Council Secretary (2) 1
Ms Kiwi NG Legislative Assistant (2) 1
Miss Lulu YEUNG Clerical Assistant (2) 1
I. Retirement protection system in Hong Kong
1. The Subcommittee deliberated (index of proceedings attached at Annex).
2. The Subcommittee received oral representations from 125 deputations/individuals attending the four-session meeting. The major views and concerns expressed by most deputations/individuals are summarized as follows:
(a) in light of the challenges of an ageing population, coupled with longer average life expectancy, and the fact that one-third of elderly persons living below the poverty line and repeated strong community call for retirement protection over several decades, the Administration should implement a universal retirement protection scheme without further delay so as to ensure that elderly persons could lead a dignified
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and financially secured life in their twilight years. Having regard to the Chief Executive's pledge in his election manifesto in respect of making improvement to retirement protection and the considerable fiscal reserve, the Government should implement the universal retirement protection scheme as soon as practicable. Retirement protection was a basic right of residents in Hong Kong similar to the entitlement to non-means-tested public healthcare services and education. It should therefore be provided to individual elderly persons in recognition of their past contribution to Hong Kong's prosperity, including female homemakers, and it was inappropriate to deliberate the subject under the purview of the Commission on Poverty ("CoP") and to study the subject from the perspective of poverty alleviation;
(b) the existing retirement protection system was considered having the following deficiencies:
(i) the labelling effect of the requirement to make declaration on non-provision of financial support by family members of the individual elderly applicants under the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance ("CSSA") Scheme had deterred many vulnerable elders from seeking appropriate financial assistance; and
(ii) the Mandatory Provident Fund ("MPF") system was ineffective in providing adequate retirement protection. The arrangement of offsetting severance payments ("SP") and long service payments ("LSP") against MPF accrued benefits derived from employers' contributions ("the offsetting arrangement") had significantly reduced the amount of the MPF accrued benefits for the employees concerned. In addition, the low investment return and high fund management and administration fees of the MPF schemes had further undermined the retirement protection function of the MPF system. There was further concern that the current generation of elders, homemakers and unemployed persons were not covered by the employment-based MPF system that had been implemented only in late 2000;
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(c) strong dissatisfaction was expressed at the Government's reluctance to adopt the "Demo-grant" proposal as set out in the Research Report on Future Development of Retirement Protection in Hong Kong which was prepared by the research team led by Professor Nelson CHOW and released in August 2014. There was also strong criticism of considerable public resources being directed to a number of infrastructural development projects. Having regard to the Administration's preconceived position on the way forward for retirement protection i.e. having reservations over any options that were not means-tested and applied equally to all elderly persons regardless of rich or poor, queries were raised as to whether CoP had conscientiously conducted the public engagement exercise on retirement protection ("the public engagement exercise") which was launched in December 2015;
(d) according to the surveys conducted by various academic institutions in the past years, over 60% of the respondents were in support of implementation of a non-means-tested retirement protection scheme. Most of the deputations were specifically in favour of a partially pre-funded universal retirement protection scheme which was supported by the community at large, including more than 200 academics i.e. the Option of Academics. Its main features included: a universal non-means-tested old age monthly pension of about $3,500 (at the 2016 price level) would be payable to all Hong Kong permanent residents aged 65 and above with tripartite contributions from the Government, employers and employees. Both employers and employees would not have to make extra contribution under the proposal, but to transfer half of their respective current contribution to the MPF system to the proposed retirement protection fund. As for the Government, it would need to transfer the recurrent funding for the CSSA payments (standard rate) for elderly recipients, Old Age Allowance ("OAA") and Old Age Living Allowance ("OALA") payments to the fund and to make a one-off capital injection of $100 billion as a start-up fund. In addition, the profit tax rates for enterprises with an annual profit exceeding $10 million would be increased by 1.9% to derive additional tax revenue for financing the scheme. It was projected that the
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proposed financial arrangements could be sustainable and have a considerable surplus by 2064;
(e) should a universal retirement protection scheme not be implemented, the ageing population would also impose a heavy burden on the public expenditure on social security (including OAA and OALA);
(f) the Administration had misled the public and put the elderly and the younger generation into confronting positions by making a projection that the latter would need to bear higher tax payment stemming from the implementation of the simulated "regardless of rich or poor" option put forward in the public engagement exercise. It should be noted that a considerable number of youth was in support of implementation of a universal retirement protection scheme which would relieve their pressure from supporting the livelihood of their parents with their meagre income;
(g) dissatisfaction was expressed with the Consultation Report of the public engagement exercise as no specific recommendations on how to improve the retirement protection system had been put forward. Query was also raised about the rationale for adopting qualitative data analysis to record and analyse views gathered from the public engagement exercise. There was doubt as to whether the Administration had given directional guidance to the relevant Consultant regarding the drafting of the Consultation Report as reported by the media; and
(h) it would be unacceptable if the Administration would merely introduce another tier of means-tested cash assistance with higher asset limits than OALA in the 2017 Policy Address as reported by the media. There was a call for Members to vote against the Budget for 2017-2018 in the event that the Administration decided not to implement universal retirement protection.
3. Some deputations, on the other hand, opposed to adopting the "regardless of rich or poor" principle in providing non-means-tested universal retirement protection, having regard to the imposition of a substantial burden on the public finance and the possibility of bringing about tax increase. It was envisaged that such a proposal was
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financially unsustainable. There was a view that the proposed universal retirement protection scheme would be unfair to the younger generation who would need to bear the financial burden and make contribution for a long period of time before they could benefit from it. Concern was also expressed about attracting eligible elderly persons from the Mainland to come to Hong Kong. It was therefore considered more appropriate to direct the limited public resources to the needy elderly persons through means tests and that the relevant asset limits could be relaxed as appropriate.
4. As regards the call for abolition of the offsetting arrangement, some deputations pointed out that the long-established offsetting arrangement was extended to cover MPF schemes after extensive consultations with employers' associations and employees' unions and balancing all relevant considerations. As SP and LSP provided certain protection to employees on account of their service with the same employer, the offsetting arrangement was reasonable, lest employees would be provided with "double benefit" for the same period of service. It was unfair to employers who would be required to pay twice for retirement protection of their employees. It was also pointed out that if the offsetting arrangement was to be abolished, enterprises would need to set aside recurrent funding dedicated for SP/LSP. Concern was expressed about the operation difficulties of the small- and medium-sized enterprises under such circumstances. It would go beyond employers' affordability and undermine the business environment. Eventually, it would result in business closure and thereby jeopardizing Hong Kong's competiveness. There were also worries that it would give rise to immediate dismissal of employees and re-employment on short-term basis. As such, it would adversely impact on the labour structure and employers might in the long run avoid employing staff with long years' of service so as to evade the responsibility of paying LSP. To reinforce the retirement protection function of MPF, there was a call for introducing market competition with a view to lowering the fund management fees and administration costs of MPF funds. There was also a view that diversified investment tools should be provided in place of MPF. Some other deputations remarked that consideration should be given to enhancing the Reverse Mortgage Programme for the purpose of providing elderly persons with an additional financial planning option and that the publicity efforts should be stepped up in this respect.
5. Most members shared the strong views of most deputations/individuals attending the meeting that the Administration should implement a non-means-tested universal retirement scheme as
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soon as practicable in the light of an unambiguous and strong call from the community at large over several decades. The old age pension would acknowledge the past contribution of the elderly persons to Hong Kong's prosperity and enable them to share the benefits of economic development. Moreover, a means-tested retirement protection scheme would be unfair to those elderly persons with some personal savings which exceeded the asset limits marginally. These members appealed to Members to make concerted efforts in pressing ahead the implementation of universal retirement protection.
6. Some other members, however, were in support of directing the finite public resources to those elderly persons who were most in need. Reservations were expressed about the sustainability of a non-means-tested universal retirement protection scheme.
7. In response to the views and concerns of members and the deputations/individuals attending the meeting, the Under Secretary for Labour and Welfare made the following points:
(a) the Administration acknowledged past contribution of elderly persons and was fully committed to improving their well-being. Notably, OALA was implemented shortly after the current-term Government assumed office and the Government Public Transport Fare Concession Scheme for the Elderly and Eligible Persons with Disabilities was launched since June 2012. Public resources allocated on welfare services had increased by 55% from $42.8 billion in 2012-2013 to $66.2 billion in 2016-2017 whereas the growth in recurrent elderly expenditure in the past four years was impressive with the annual budget for elderly services increasing from $42.1 billion in 2012-2013 to $65.8 billion in 2016-2017;
(b) the Administration was very concerned about the subject of retirement protection, which was highly complex and controversial, and was of the view that retirement protection was a shared responsibility of individuals, family members, employers, and the Government. Based on the multi-pillar retirement protection model advocated by the World Bank, the retirement protection system in Hong Kong was made up of a number of schemes. It comprised four pillars viz. publicly-funded social security system; mandatory contributions to the MPF schemes, and public housing,
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healthcare and welfare services, family support and personal assets. These pillars were complementary to one another in addressing the diverse retirement needs of elderly persons: some had to rely on social security, others required some living allowances and the rest were self-sufficient. A flat-rate payment by the Government to all elderly persons irrespective of financial means would only dilute the support available to those in need. The Government would seek to strengthen and consolidate the existing pillars of the current multi-pronged system and enhance their retirement protection functions;
(c) it was the first time since the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region that the Government engaged the public to discuss retirement protection, which demonstrated the commitment and the sincerity of the current-term Government. The Government agreed that the existing retirement protection system had room for improvement and did not wish to see its efforts to improve the retirement protection coming to a standstill. The consultation document of the public engagement exercise comprehensively reviewed the operation of each of the four pillars of retirement protection. It should be noted that any single pillar alone could not fully address retirement protection for elderly persons. It was imperative that the implementation of a retirement protection proposal must be acceptable to the stakeholders and the community, and be sustainable, affordable and operationally viable;
(d) during the launch of the six-month public engagement exercise on retirement protection by CoP, the Government and CoP members organized or attended a total of 110 public engagement activities to listen to the views of different sectors of the community on retirement protection. The Administration was aware of the different concerns of the community over the MPF offsetting arrangement, which involved the interests of various stakeholders, in particular the retirement benefits of employees and operating costs of employers. The Administration would examine the issue in a holistic and careful manner and was committed to finding a viable way forward. The public views collected during the public engagement exercise showed a wide spectrum of views on the subject of retirement protection. Views were
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divided as to whether the "regardless of rich or poor" or "those with financial needs" principle should be adopted to improve the retirement protection system;
(e) the Consultation Report of the public engagement exercise, which was independently made by the Consultant concerned, had been uploaded to the dedicated website of CoP and the thematic website of the public engagement exercise on retirement protection for public reference, and all submissions received during the consultation period would also be uploaded to the website as soon as possible; and
(f) in mapping out the way forward, the Government would fully consider the views of the public and the community and take into account other factors such as the diverse needs of elderly persons (including those with financial needs and those who were self-sufficient), the implications on public finances and the economy, as well as the issue of targeting the distribution of limited public resources at those in need. The Administration was actively formulating policy recommendations and would make an overall policy response on retirement protection in the Chief Executive's 2017 Policy Address to be delivered on 18 January 2017.
II. Any other business
8. The Chairman advised that members would be informed the date of next Subcommittee meeting in due course.
(Post-meeting note: The next Subcommittee meeting was scheduled for 7 February 2017 at 10:45 am.)
9. There being no other business, the meeting ended at 6:30 pm.
Council Business Division 2 Legislative Council Secretariat 7 March 2017 Annex
Proceedings of meeting of the Subcommittee on Retirement Protection held on Thursday, 5 January 2017, at 9:00 am in Conference Room 1 of the Legislative Council Complex
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required Agenda item I - Retirement protection system in Hong Kong Session One 000000 - Chairman Opening remarks 001156 Meeting arrangements
001157 - Chairman Presentation of views 001505 Mr SIN Ho-fai, The Civic [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(01)] Party
001506 - Chairman Presentation of views 001830 Mr Joseph CHAN Ho-lim, Liberal Party
001831 - Chairman Presentation of views 002139 Mr Nick CHAN, Alliance for [LC Paper No. CB(2)536/16-17(01)] Universal Pension
002140 - Chairman Presentation of views 002307 Mr TSUI Yat-keung, Government Mod 1 Staff General Union
002308 - Chairman Presentation of views 002521 Ms LEE Choi-kwan, The Grassrooteer
002522 - Chairman Presentation of views 002827 Mr CHUNG Hau-ping, Kwai Fong Estate Elderly Rights Concern Group
002828 - Chairman Presentation of views 003142 Ms CHU Moon-chun, Caretaker Concern Group
003143 - Chairman Presentation of views 003442 Ms LAI Yuen-mei, Social Development Movement for Hong Kong's Future
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Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 003443 - Chairman Presentation of views 003715 Mr 蘇雋謙, 社工學聯外務部
003716 - Chairman Presentation of views 004016 Miss 鄭曉汶, 社工學聯退保 關注組
004017 - Chairman Presentation of views 004301 Mr CHEUNG Kai-fu, 失明人 互聯會
004302 - Chairman Presentation of views 004549 Mr NG Kin-wing, Grassroots Development Centre
004550 - Chairman Presentation of views 004907 Ms Agnes TSANG Lai-shan, Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong Diocesan Pastoral Centre for Workers (Hong Kong Island)
004908 - Chairman Presentation of views 005218 Ms 張錦笑, 東區長者關注退 休保障組
005219 - Chairman Presentation of views 005544 Ms 馬玉碧, 爭取落實全民養 老金－港島
005545 - Chairman Presentation of views 005851 Mr TSANG Tsz-wang, 退休 保障同學關注組
005852 - Chairman Presentation of views 010147 Mr 陳澤初, 東區長者退休關 注組
010148 - Chairman Presentation of views 010458 Miss CHENG Tsz-ting, 青少 年關注退保小組
010459 - Chairman Presentation of views 010809 Mr Louis LAM Wai-ho, 香港 島關注退休事宜小組－ 青年
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Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 010810 - Chairman Presentation of views 011102 Miss LAW Pui-shan, Hong Kong Catholic Commission for Labour Affairs
011103 - Chairman Presentation of views 011216 Ms WAN Mei-ha, 小巿民關 注退休保障生活組
011217 - Chairman Presentation of views 011507 Mr CHAN Chau-shing, 天主 教勞工牧民中心－九龍 保安護衛關注組
011508 - Chairman Presentation of views 011814 Ms CHOI Wai-fun, 天主教勞 工牧民中心－九龍 單幢 大廈物業員關注組
011815 - Chairman Presentation of views 012009 Mr CHAN Ka-ki, 全民退休 保障落實關注組
012010 - Chairman Presentation of views 012315 Mr CHIANG Wai-kan, 全民 退保我有份關注組
012316 - Chairman Presentation of views 012455 Miss TO Ka-man, 青年支持 退休保障委員會
012456 - Chairman Presentation of views 012808 Mr WONG Chun-ming, 全民 退休保障免審查人人有份 關注組
012809 - Chairman Presentation of views 013120 Mr SIN Chi-man, Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong Diocesan Pastoral Centre for Workers - Kowloon
013121 - Chairman Presentation of views 013405 Mr Dan CHAN, Liberal Party Youth Committee
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Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 013406 - Chairman Presentation of views 013630 Mr Joe HO
013631 - Chairman Presentation of views 013858 Mr Fun CHEUNG
013859 - Chairman Presentation of views 014126 Miss Maggie LEE
014127 - Chairman Presentation of views 014402 Mr Kurt AU
014403 - Chairman Presentation of views 014602 Miss Regin CHAN
014603 - Chairman Presentation of views 014912 Mr WONG Ho-ming, League of Social Democrats
014913 - Chairman Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung's disagreement with 015259 Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung the saying that implementation of universal retirement protection would cause business closure of small- and medium-sized enterprises ("SMEs"). His view that high rental rather than staff cost made it difficult for business operation.
Mr LEUNG's suggestion of funding sources of old age pension be partly met with by the Government's injection of a one-off capital of $50 billion as the start-up fund as well as levying additional tax. It would be able to address concern about sustainability of a retirement protection scheme under the "pay as you go" principle and imposition of a very heavy burden of making contribution to the scheme on the younger generation over time.
Mr LEUNG's appeal to the Administration to increase the amount of the monthly amount of the non-means-tested Old Age Allowance to $3,200 as soon as practicable.
015300 - Chairman Dr Fernando CHEUNG's criticism of the 015616 Dr Fernando CHEUNG Administration's failure to provide social insurance for the community at large to share benefits of economic development.
Dr CHEUNG's grave concern that the Administration would reportedly propose in - 5 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required the 2017 Policy Address to set up another tier of means-tested scheme with relaxation of asset limits to improve the existing retirement protection system. His anticipation that retired employees with accrued benefits of the Mandatory Provident Fund ("MPF") could hardly meet the asset limits of the proposed scheme.
015617 - Chairman Mr SHIU Ka-fai's remarks that the Liberal 015848 Mr SHIU Ka-fai Party was in support of directing the limited public resources to the elderly who were most in need. His reservations about the sustainability of a non-means-tested universal retirement protection scheme.
Mr SHIU's response to Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung's earlier view that the difficult business environment for SMEs was attributed to high rental which, in Mr SHIU's view, could be resolved by increasing land supply.
015849 - Chairman Mr CHAN Chi-chuen's disappointment with 020100 Mr CHAN Chi-chuen the Administration's refusal of implementing a non-means-tested universal retirement protection scheme in spite of the repeated call from the community.
Mr CHAN's dissatisfaction at the delay in conducting a review on the asset limits of the Old Age Living Allowance ("OALA").
020101 - Chairman Five-minute break for the meeting 020539
Session Two 020540 - Chairman Opening remarks for Session Two 020800 Admin
020801 - Chairman Presentation of views 021117 Mr CHAN Chi-shing, 中產關 注退休保障陣線
021118 - Chairman Presentation of views 021420 Mr LING San-ting, 青年革新
- 6 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 021421 - Chairman Presentation of views 021735 Mr LI Chi-pang, 贏返全民退 保行動
021736 - Chairman Presentation of views 021956 Mr LAM Sze-yuen, 青年無 全民退保 So sad
021957 - Chairman Presentation of views 022301 Miss TAI Yuet-ching, 青年退 保關注組
022302 - Chairman Presentation of views 022607 Mr LAI Wai-tong, Tseung Kwan O Universal Pension Concern Network
022608 - Chairman Presentation of views 022915 Miss LEUNG Tsz-yan, Promoters and Casual Workers Union
022916 - Chairman Presentation of views 023221 Ms TSANG Yuen-kei, Hong [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(02)] Kong Christian Service
023222 - Chairman Presentation of views 023436 Ms Alice ISHIGAMI LEE [LC Paper No. CB(2)505/16-17(01)] Fung-king, Concerning Home Care Service Alliance
023437 - Chairman Presentation of views 023743 Mr KWOK Man-ho, 天水圍 長者權益關注組
023744 - Chairman Presentation of views 024046 Mr WONG Yun-tat, Neighbourhood and Worker's Service Centre
024047 - Chairman Presentation of views 024354 Ms CHEUNG Po-lai, Cleaning Workers Union
024355 - Chairman Presentation of views 024759 Mr LAW Ying-cheung, The Democratic Party
- 7 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 024800 - Chairman Presentation of views 025104 Mr 許強 [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(03)]
025105 - Chairman Presentation of views 025413 Mr 鄭量之 [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(04)]
025414 - Chairman Presentation of views 025723 Ms CHAN Po-ying, Women Heatedly Support for Universal Pension
025724 - Chairman Presentation of views 025925 Mr KWONG Wing-tai, 將軍 澳長者民生關注會
025926 - Chairman Presentation of views 030239 Ms LAU Yau-chun, Industrial Relations Institute
030240 - Chairman Presentation of views 030512 Ms LEE Sau-kwan, IRI Women's Coop
030513 - Chairman Presentation of views 030733 Mr PUN Chau-man, The [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(05)] Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour Unions
030734 - Chairman Presentation of views 031043 Mr Kalvin HO Kai-ming, Youth ADPL
031044 - Chairman Presentation of views 031324 Mr YUEN Wai-tak
031325 - Chairman The Chairman's view that pending 031413 implementation of a universal retirement protection scheme, it was acceptable that OALA be introduced as a means to improve the livelihood of the eligible elderly.
031414 - Chairman Presentation of views 031726 Ms YIP Mee-yung
031727 - Chairman Presentation of views 032022 Mr TSE Wai-yue
- 8 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 032023 - Chairman The Chairman's clarification of the stance of 032121 the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions ("HKFTU") on the implementation of a universal retirement protection scheme.
032122 - Chairman Presentation of views 032439 Mr WONG Kwok-kei, 全民 [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(07)] 撐退保社福聯盟
032440 - Chairman Presentation of views 032739 Miss LEUNG Wei-ching, Hong Kong Women Workers' Association
032740 - Chairman Presentation of views 033019 Mr WONG Wo-ping, The [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(08)] Hong Kong Council of Social Service
033020 - Chairman Presentation of views 033333 Ms CHUNG Bik-mui
033334 - Chairman Presentation of views 033627 Mr CHIU See-poon, 全民退 保關注組
033628 - Chairman Presentation of views 033942 Mr LAM Chi-chung
033943 - Chairman Presentation of views 034252 Mr Raymond HO Man-kit, [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(06)] Momentum 107
034253 - Chairman Mr LUK Chung-hung's remarks that HKFTU 034622 Mr LUK Chung-hung was in support of a non-means-tested universal retirement protection scheme with tripartite contributions from the Government, employers and employees. His emphasis of the importance of concerted efforts among different political parties and labour organizations in fighting for implementation of such a scheme.
Mr LUK's view that implementation of a means-tested retirement protection system would be unfair to those elderly with some personal savings which exceeded the asset limits marginally.
- 9 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 034623 - Chairman Mr SHIU Ka-chun highlighted the persistent 034931 Mr SHIU Ka-chun and continual community call for universal retirement protection. Mr SHIU's concern about how the Administration would respond to such strong call.
His request for the Administration's explanation in respect of its remarks that the views collected from about 90% of the 18 365 written submissions (i.e. 16 830 written submissions) received in the six-month public engagement exercise launched in 2015 ("public engagement exercise"), which were presented in seven standard proformas in support of universal retirement protection, was insignificant.
034932 - Chairman Mr Nathan LAW's concern about the severe 035246 Mr Nathan LAW problems of disparity between the rich and poor and elderly poverty in Hong Kong.
Mr LAW's view that according to the projection made by the "Study on retirement protection in Hong Kong" conducted by a consultancy team led by Professor Nelson CHOW, a universal retirement protection scheme was sustainable. It was merely a political decision of the Government not to implement such a scheme. His appeal to the Government to make endeavor to provide universal retirement protection for the elderly.
035247 - Chairman The Chairman's reiteration of HKFTU's 040619 Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung position on implementation of universal Admin retirement protection. His view that the Government had to address the call for universal retirement protection regardless of whether it stood for re-election.
The Administration's response to the following major views/concerns raised by deputations/individuals:
(a) the availability of $50 billion earmarked for retirement protection;
(b) the public engagement exercise, under which no specific recommendations on how to improve the retirement protection system had been put forward in its - 10 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required consultation report, was not a genuine consultation;
(c) whether an enhanced version of OALA with relaxation of asset limits would be put forward in the 2017 Policy Address to address the retirement protection issue as reported by the media;
(d) provision of universal retirement protection would help address the livelihood issues of parents of the younger generation and enable the latter to have more room for planning their life; and
(e) whether the Administration would focus its work on the financial arrangements for implementing a non-means-tested universal retirement protection scheme.
040620 - Chairman Break 053339
Session Three 053340 - Chairman Opening remarks for Session Three 053531
053532 - Chairman Presentation of views 053838 Ms Florence CHEUNG Man-wai, Labour Rights Commune
053839 - Chairman Presentation of views 054124 Ms LO Siu-lan, Chinese Grey Power
054125 - Chairman Presentation of views 054338 Mr CHEUNG Kai-bing, Kwai Chung Estate Residents' Rights Concern Group
054339 - Chairman Presentation of views 054635 Mr 彭宇軒, 明愛專上學院社 會科學系系會
054636 - Chairman Presentation of views 054959 Mr 李裕茂, 香港社會工作學 生聯會
- 11 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 055000 - Chairman Presentation of views 055325 Mr 林超, 基層民生關注組 [LC Paper No. CB(2)513/16-17(01)]
055326 - Chairman Presentation of views 055445 Ms 霍美崧, 爭取退休保障 [LC Paper No. CB(2)513/16-17(01)] 聯盟
055446 - Chairman Presentation of views 055808 Ms NG Yuet-lan, Member of [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(09)] Sham Shui Po District Council
055809 - Chairman Presentation of views 060113 Mr LAI Ming-lai, 老人福利 關注組
060114 - Chairman Presentation of views 060424 Miss 伍頌恩
060425 - Chairman Presentation of views 060733 Mr CHAN Kok-hin, Demosisto
060734 - Chairman Presentation of views 061103 Mr WONG Kai-hing, New Arrival Women League
061104 - Chairman Presentation of views 061413 Mr LAU Cheuk-kei, Sham Shui Po Community Association
061414 - Chairman Presentation of views 061719 Miss TSOI Sin-man, Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres
061720 - Chairman Presentation of views 061954 Mr LAM Yuk-ki, 婦女中心 退保關注組
061955 - Chairman Presentation of views 062311 Miss CHENG Mo-yi, WISE pension for women concern group
- 12 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 062312 - Chairman Presentation of views 062550 Mr NG Chung-tat, 香港淋病 病人協會
062551 - Chairman Presentation of views 062911 Mr CHAN Chi-wing
062912 - Chairman Presentation of views 063218 Miss Theresa YUNG
063219 - Chairman Presentation of views 063534 Mr WONG Hiu-au, 退而求其 次後發現連條毛都冇受害 者權益保障協會
063535 - Chairman Presentation of views 063857 Mr 陳智聰, 進步教師同盟 [LC Paper No. CB(2)505/16-17(02)]
063858 - Chairman Presentation of views 064230 Mr WONG Chong-kwan
064231 - Chairman Presentation of views 064541 Mr 王佐基
064542 - Chairman Presentation of views 064851 Mr KO Chung-lai, Student Christian Movement of Hong Kong
064852 - Chairman Presentation of views 065231 Mr LO Chun-hing, Hong Kong Christian Service - Elderly Council
065232 - Chairman Presentation of views 065533 Mr LAM Chung-yau
065534 - Chairman Presentation of views 065908 Mr CHAN Kam-cheong
065909 - Chairman Presentation of views 070234 Ms LO Lai-ping
070235 - Chairman Presentation of views 070552 Mr TSANG Hoi-pang, 葵涌 邨長者權益關注組
- 13 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 070553 - Chairman Presentation of views 070901 Ms LAM Kam-lee, Evangelical Lutheran Church Social Service - HK
070902 - Chairman Presentation of views 071220 Mr NG Koon-kwan, Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions
071221 - Chairman Dr LAU Siu-lai's view that the Government's 071600 Dr LAU Siu-lai commitment to implementing universal retirement protection was critical.
Dr LAU's sharing of deputations' views on the problem of elderly living in poverty and the difficulties facing elderly with limited personal savings. Her remarks that implementation of a means-tested retirement protection system would be unfair to those elderly with some personal savings.
071601 - Chairman Mr CHU Hoi-dick's view that the universal 071932 Mr CHU Hoi-dick retirement protection scheme could be pressed ahead if the majority of Members expressed support for a proposal which aimed at improving the well-being of the elderly. He therefore strongly appealed to Members belonging to different political affiliations, including those belonging to HKFTU, to act in a concerted way to support the universal retirement protection proposal so as to bring pressure to bear on the Government when the 2017 Policy Address and the Budget for 2017-2018 were delivered.
The Chairman's clarification of HKFTU's position on the subject.
071933 - Chairman Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung's strong view that the 072144 Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung Chairman of the Commission on Poverty, who was also Chief Secretary for Administration, should focus her work on addressing the retirement protection issue.
072145 - Chairman The Administration's response to views and 073102 Admin concerns expressed by deputations/individuals Mr CHEUNG Kai-bing, Kwai and members, in particular the retirement Chung Estate Residents' needs of female homemakers who could not Rights Concern Group benefit from the MPF System and provision of - 14 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required Ms Florence CHEUNG non-means-tested retirement protection so as to Man-wai, Labour Rights help reduce the financial burden of the younger Commune generation. Mr CHAN Chi-wing Further views of deputations on tripartite contributions to a non-means-tested retirement protection scheme and MPF system.
073103 - Chairman Five-minute break for the meeting 073943
Session Four 073944 - Chairman Opening remarks for Session Four 074124
074125 - Chairman Presentation of views 074425 Mr Abraham LAI, Community Cultural Concern
074426 - Chairman Presentation of views 074714 Miss CHOW Wing-heng, [LC Paper No. CB(2)505/16-17(03)] Member of Sham Shui Po District Council
074715 - Chairman Presentation of views 075036 Ms TSE Yin-fei, Hong Kong Domestic Workers General Union
075037 - Chairman Presentation of views 075400 Ms BUN Muk-nga, 荃灣長者 聯合組
075401 - Chairman Presentation of views 075713 Ms LAM Sin-man
075714 - Chairman Presentation of views 075952 Miss SO Sim-yan
075953 - Chairman Presentation of views 080259 Mr CHUN Hoi-shing, NeoDemocrats
080300 - Chairman Presentation of views 080617 Mr Frederick FUNG KK [LC Paper No. CB(2)505/16-17(05)]
- 15 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 080618 - Chairman Presentation of views 080930 Mr LEUNG Siu-sun, Member [LC Paper No. CB(2)611/16-17(01)] of Eastern District Council
080931 - Chairman Presentation of views 081233 Prof WONG Yu-cheung [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(10)]
081234 - Chairman Presentation of views 081542 Mr S O Yat-hang, The office of Hon HUI Chi-fung Legislative Councillor
081543 - Chairman Presentation of views 081846 Mr 吳堃廉, 香港聖公會麥理 浩夫人中心社區發展部
081847 - Chairman Presentation of views 082137 Mr 施志誠, Construction Site Workers General Union
082138 - Chairman Presentation of views 082507 Miss WONG Tsz-yan, 病人 [LC Paper No. CB(2)505/16-17(04)] 自助組織關注全民退保 聯席
082508 - Chairman Presentation of views 082817 Ms 余美雲, Hong Kong Building Services and Security General Union
082818 - Chairman Presentation of views 083122 Miss 陳艷梅, Retail, Commerce and Clothing Industries General Union
083123 - Chairman Presentation of views 083503 Mr KUNG Wai-sum, Hong [LC Paper No. CB(2)552/16-17(11)] Kong Policy Viewers
083504 - Chairman Presentation of views 083824 Mr YU Hok-man, HKCTU Youth Affairs Group
083825 - Chairman Presentation of views 084124 Mr Augustine YU Siu-po, Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong Diocesan Pastoral Centre for Workers - New Territories - 16 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 084125 - Chairman Presentation of views 084452 Mr Simon TAM, North District Employment Concern Group
084453 - Chairman Presentation of views 084758 Ms LEE Yuk-mei, Women Employment Concern Group
084759 - Chairman Presentation of views 085115 Mr Jay LEE Lap-chau, Concern Outsourced Cleaner's Right Group
085116 - Chairman Presentation of views 085426 Mr WU Lin-feng, North District Grassroot Workers Group
085427 - Chairman Presentation of views 085755 Mr 熊若水
085756 - Chairman Presentation of views 090120 Miss Natalie TSUI Wai-fong
090121 - Chairman Presentation of views 090431 Mr 范誠顯, D錢你架咩俾返 D錢老人家仗義執言組
090432 - Chairman Presentation of views 090735 Mr 林培元
090736 - Chairman Presentation of views 091037 Mr FU Wai-hon
091038 - Chairman Dr LAU Siu-lai's remarks that elderly from the 091325 Dr LAU Siu-lai middle-class also had financial needs for their retirement life.
The Chairman's response to Dr LAU's appeal to HKFTU to join filibustering for the purpose of pressurizing the Government to honour the Chief Executive's pledge of implementing a non-means-tested retirement protection scheme.
- 17 -
Time Speaker Subject(s) / Discussion Action marker Required 091326 - Chairman The Administration's response to the views and 093100 Admin concerns of deputations/individuals. Mr Abraham LAI, Community Cultural Concern The Administration's advice that the Secretary Miss WONG Tsz-yan, 病人 for Labour and Welfare was unable to attend 自助組織關注全民退保 the meeting due to other prior official 聯席 commitments. Mr Frederick FUNG KK Mr 施志誠, Construction Site The Administration's response to the further views and concerns of the Workers General Union deputations/individuals. Ms LAM Sin-man
Agenda item II – Any other business 093101 - Chairman Closing remarks 093127
Council Business Division 2 Legislative Council Secretariat 7 March 2017