June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13095 The amendment I am offering also includes Campbell Hobson Radanovich Hooley Meehan Sanders Canady Hoekstra Rahall Hoyer Meek (FL) Sandlin several provisions dealing with the delivery of Cannon Horn Ramstad Inslee Meeks (NY) Sawyer mental health services to youth in the juvenile Castle Hostettler Regula Jackson (IL) Menendez Schakowsky justice system. These provisions include: al- Chabot Hulshof Reynolds Jackson-Lee Millender- Scott lowing the use of funds in the formula and Chambliss Hunter Riley (TX) McDonald Serrano Chenoweth Hutchinson Rogan Jefferson Miller, George Sherman block grant programs for mental health serv- Coble Hyde Rogers Johnson, E.B. Minge Sisisky ices, training and technical assistance for Coburn Isakson Rohrabacher Jones (OH) Mink Skelton service providers, and a study on the provision Collins Istook Ros-Lehtinen Kanjorski Moakley Slaughter of mental health services to juveniles. Con- Combest Jenkins Roukema Kaptur Mollohan Smith (WA) Cook John Royce Kennedy Moore Snyder gresswoman ROUKEMA has provided the Com- Cooksey Johnson (CT) Ryan (WI) Kildee Moran (VA) Spratt mittee with vital information on the importance Cox Johnson, Sam Ryun (KS) Kilpatrick Nadler Stabenow of mental health services for at-risk juveniles Crane Jones (NC) Salmon Kind (WI) Napolitano Stark Kleczka Neal Cubin Kasich Sanford Stenholm and juvenile offenders and should be com- Klink Oberstar Cunningham Kelly Saxton Strickland LaFalce Obey mended for her work in this area. Danner King (NY) Scarborough Tanner Lampson Olver I have also noticed that a number of pro- Davis (VA) Kingston Schaffer Tauscher Larson Ortiz Deal Knollenberg Sensenbrenner Thompson (CA) posed amendments attempt to direct that a Lee Pallone DeLay Kolbe Sessions Thompson (MS) portion of funding under the Prevention Block DeMint Kucinich Shadegg Levin Pascrell Lewis (GA) Pastor Thurman Grant Program be used for specific purposes. Diaz-Balart Kuykendall Shaw Tierney Dickey LaHood Shays Lipinski Payne The Committee created the block grant by Lofgren Pelosi Towns combining a number of existing discretionary Dingell Largent Sherwood Turner Doolittle Latham Shimkus Lowey Peterson (MN) programs. We did this to provide States and Luther Phelps Udall (CO) Dreier LaTourette Shows Udall (NM) Duncan Lazio Shuster Maloney (CT) Pickett local communities with broad flexibility in de- Vela´ zquez Dunn Leach Simpson Maloney (NY) Pomeroy signing programs to meet their local needs. Vento Ehlers Lewis (CA) Skeen Markey Price (NC) Visclosky Putting any restrictions on the use of these Ehrlich Lewis (KY) Smith (MI) Martinez Rangel Waters funds would tie the hands of local commu- Emerson Linder Smith (NJ) Mascara Reyes Watt (NC) English LoBiondo Smith (TX) Matsui Rivers nities who are in the best position to know McCarthy (MO) Rodriguez Waxman how to address their unique problems with ju- Everett Lucas (KY) Souder Ewing Lucas (OK) Spence McCarthy (NY) Roemer Weiner venile crime. Fletcher Manzullo Stearns McDermott Rothman Wexler Mr. Speaker, there are few programs at the Foley McCollum Stump McGovern Roybal-Allard Weygand McIntyre Rush Woolsey federal level which provide services directed at Forbes McCrery Stupak Fossella McHugh Sununu McKinney Sabo Wu preventing juvenile crime, particularly pro- Fowler McInnis Sweeney McNulty Sanchez Wynn grams to provide assistance to juvenile offend- Franks (NJ) McIntosh Talent NOT VOTING—6 ers. Frelinghuysen McKeon Tancredo Gallegly Metcalf Tauzin Brown (CA) Gordon Lantos It is my hope that we can keep the focus of Ganske Mica Taylor (MS) Davis (IL) Houghton Owens my amendment on providing assistance to this Gekas Miller (FL) Taylor (NC) high-risk population and other juveniles at risk Gibbons Miller, Gary Terry b 1218 of involvement in delinquent activities. Gilchrest Moran (KS) Thomas Mr. ROEMER changed his vote from Gillmor Morella Thornberry I urge my Colleagues to support my amend- Gilman Murtha Thune ‘‘yea’’ to ‘‘nay.’’ ment when it is offered and to support the Goode Myrick Tiahrt So the resolution was agreed to. Rule under which this legislation is being con- Goodlatte Nethercutt Toomey The result of the vote was announced Goodling Ney Traficant sidered. Goss Northup Upton as above recorded. Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I yield Graham Norwood Vitter A motion to reconsider was laid on back the balance of my time, and I Granger Nussle Walden the table. move the previous question on the res- Green (WI) Ose Walsh Greenwood Oxley Wamp f olution. Gutknecht Packard Watkins The previous question was ordered. Hall (TX) Paul Watts (OK) GENERAL LEAVE The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Hansen Pease Weldon (FL) Hastert Peterson (PA) Weldon (PA) Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Speaker, I ask question is on the resolution. Hastings (WA) Petri Weller unanimous consent that all Members The question was taken; and the Hayes Pickering Whitfield may have 5 legislative days within Speaker pro tempore announced that Hayworth Pitts Wicker which to revise and extend their re- Hefley Pombo Wilson the ayes appeared to have it. Herger Porter Wise marks and to insert extraneous mate- Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I object Hill (MT) Portman Wolf rial into the RECORD on H.R. 1501 and to the vote on the ground that a Hilleary Pryce (OH) Young (AK) H.R. 2122, the legislation we are about quorum is not present and make the Hilliard Quinn Young (FL) to consider. point of order that a quorum is not NAYS—189 The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there present. Abercrombie Cardin Edwards objection to the request of the gen- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evi- Ackerman Carson Engel tleman from Florida? dently a quorum is not present. Allen Clay Eshoo There was no objection. The Sergeant at Arms will notify ab- Andrews Clayton Etheridge Baird Clement Evans f sent Members. Baldacci Clyburn Farr The vote was taken by electronic de- Baldwin Condit Fattah CONSEQUENCES FOR JUVENILE vice, and there were—yeas 240, nays Barrett (WI) Conyers Filner OFFENDERS ACT OF 1999 Becerra Costello Ford 189, not voting 6, as follows: Bentsen Coyne Frank (MA) The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. [Roll No. 210] Berkley Cramer Frost KOLBE). Pursuant to House Resolution Berman Crowley Gejdenson 209 and rule XVIII, the Chair declares YEAS—240 Berry Cummings Gephardt Aderholt Bass Bonilla Blagojevich Davis (FL) Gonzalez the House in the Committee of the Archer Bateman Bono Blumenauer DeFazio Green (TX) Whole House on the State of the Union Armey Bereuter Boucher Bonior DeGette Gutierrez for the consideration of the bill, H.R. Bachus Biggert Brady (TX) Borski Delahunt Hall (OH) Baker Bilbray Bryant Boswell DeLauro Hastings (FL) 1501. Ballenger Bilirakis Burr Boyd Deutsch Hill (IN) Barcia Bishop Burton Brady (PA) Dicks Hinchey b 1218 Barr Bliley Buyer Brown (FL) Dixon Hinojosa IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Barrett (NE) Blunt Callahan Brown (OH) Doggett Hoeffel Bartlett Boehlert Calvert Capps Dooley Holden Accordingly, the House resolved Barton Boehner Camp Capuano Doyle Holt itself into the Committee of the Whole

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 13096 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 House on the State of the Union for the the weighty concerns of school violence service to the American public and our consideration of the bill (H.R. 1501) to and, sadly, I think we all know that children if we fail to recognize and ad- provide grants to ensure increased ac- the determined acts of individuals on a dress the more fundamental underlying countability for juvenile offenders, massacre and suicide mission are rare- causes of teenage violence. with Mr. THORNBERRY in the chair. ly preventable through even the best of Lack of proper parental attention, The Clerk read the title of the bill. laws. lack of discipline and overcrowding in The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the We have now learned that these two our schools, exposure to repetitive, ex- rule, the bill is considered as having teenagers felt rejection by their peers, treme violence on television, in the been read the first time. were filled with hatred and had been movies, in video games and over the Under the rule, the gentleman from planning their violent massacre and Internet, and a broken juvenile justice Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) and the gen- suicide for a year. It seems to me that system are among the root causes of tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) the key to preventing such tragedies is this epidemic of juvenile violence. each will control 30 minutes. to foster and strengthen those values Of all of these, the one that by legis- The Chair recognizes the gentleman and convictions that make even con- lation we can have the most impact on from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). templating such madness inconceiv- is repairing our Nation’s broken juve- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I able. nile justice system, which is the sub- yield myself such time as I may con- Yes, our Nation’s laws do play a part ject of the base text of H.R. 1501; and sume. in fostering such values, but I think yet all of the debate, since Littleton, in Mr. Chairman, I rise this morning in the role our laws play in all of this all of this time, this bipartisan product strong support of H.R. 1501, the Con- pales in comparison to the combined which sociologists and expert after ex- sequences of Juvenile Offenders Act of roles of family, churches, civic institu- pert have told us is one of the most 1999. On a day when there may be more tions and the media. These are what crucial and important steps that we than occasional partisanship, I think it truly shape the character of our youth. can take to protect America’s children, is important to note that the base text This very important point was elo- has gone virtually unnoticed. for our deliberations today and the quently made at the Subcommittee on In most of our urban and suburban base text for what we will probably be Crime hearing last month by Darrell communities today first-time teenage considering tomorrow and maybe even Scott, whose daughter Rachel was vandalism goes unpunished. Police who the next day is truly bipartisan. killed in the Columbine shooting and catch kids slashing tires, key scratch- Indeed, all the members of the Sub- whose son Craig was wounded there. ing cars or spray painting graffiti on committee on Crime, Republican and Mr. Scott said, and I quote, no warehouse walls often do not even take Democrat alike, are original cospon- amount of gun laws can stop somebody these kids before juvenile authorities sors of this bill, as are the gentleman who spends months planning this type because they do not expect that they will receive any meaningful punish- from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) and the gen- of massacre. ment. This is so because our juvenile tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS), As we begin consideration of meas- the chairman and the ranking member ures to better protect our children on courts around the Nation are over- of the full Committee on the Judiciary. the school grounds, playgrounds and worked and understaffed. There simply Mr. Chairman, this legislation is the the streets of America, and to stop the are not enough juvenile judges, proba- outcome of years of field hearings, violent youth movement that seems to tionary officers, diversion programs committee hearings and earlier legisla- be going on in this country, we need to and detention facilities. Most of our juvenile courts are fo- tive efforts. It reflects the input of put our endeavors and the tragedy of cused principally on repeat offenders countless men and women who are Columbine in perspective. The vast ma- and the very bad. As a result, the kids daily in the trenches of juvenile justice jority of our teenagers are healthy, do not get the messages that there are around the country; the juvenile court bright kids who have been instilled any consequences for their criminal judges, probation officers, prosecutors, with basic values and in our great, free acts. These kids do not get disciplined police officers and educators who have Nation will have the opportunity to at home or in the school or in the juve- the tremendous challenge of trying to have a good education and seek to nile justice system. make juvenile justice a reality by re- achieve their highest aspirations. Juvenile judges, probation officers, directing the lives of troubled young- There are an alarming and growing police officers, educators and sociolo- sters into productive paths. number of disturbed and often rejected gists have all told the Subcommittee Perhaps most importantly, this legis- and isolated youth who are turning to on Crime again and again that kids lation responds directly and in a posi- violence, which is not only self-de- who receive little or no consequences tive common sense way to the central structive but puts at risk all of our for their misbehavior are far more like- question that we are all grappling with children. Our job is to understand the ly candidates for teenage violence as today. What can we do about youth and causes of this youth violence, and they get older. violence? How can we, as legislators, while recognizing their limits use our H.R. 1501 addresses this problem. It contribute to safer, healthier commu- laws in a constructive manner to help establishes a grant program over 3 nities for our kids and our families? our families and communities identify years to provide much needed resources Our youth are America’s finest re- and redirect these disturbed teenagers to State and local juvenile justice sys- source. We have an obligation to pro- before they engage in some violent and tems to help them do more to focus on tect this valuable national treasure. As tragic act. the youthful first-time offender. It goes a Congress, we may disagree on how to Mr. Chairman, since the tragedy at to the States based upon their popu- accomplish this objective. However, we Columbine, many have focused almost lation and their rate of juvenile crime. are all focused on one thing. We must exclusively on restricting teenagers’ They can use this money any way they protect our young people. access to guns and gun control. I share see fit to improve their juvenile justice Mr. Chairman, the tragic events at virtually everyone’s belief that no systems, including hiring more judges Columbine High School on April 20 child should have access to a gun. No or probation officers or creating more have left us all asking tough questions, doubt, some of our gun laws are too lax diversion programs or building more looking for real answers. The senseless and loopholes need to be closed, and we juvenile detention facilities, or pro- suicidal rampage by those two teen- will properly address these matters in viding more safety measures in agers leading to the brutal deaths of 12 the next day or two. schools. of their classmates and one teacher It is also true that gun laws already It ties these additional resources to cast a fearful shadow over our country. on the books have not been adequately graduated sanctions, an approach that As a father of three sons, one of them enforced by the Justice Department, seeks to ensure meaningful propor- a high school graduate only three but youth violence is about a whole lot tional consequences for juvenile wrong- weeks ago, my wife and I have known more than gun issues and we do a dis- doing, starting with the first offense

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13097 and intensifying with each subsequent, bipartisanship with reference to the ju- Let us carefully review and reject more serious offense. Each State’s venile justice legislation, that we most of these amendments that will funding would be based on its juvenile abandon the orderly process to pursue send us further backwards instead of population. legislation by ambush, and abandon moving us forward as the American I want to make this point very clear- our commitment to the American peo- people would wish. ly. There is only one condition that ple, and follow instead the lead of spe- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance States must meet in order to receive cial interests. of my time. the funds under this program, and that Now, how do we know the Republican Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I is to establish a system of graduating majority has played politics with juve- yield myself 30 seconds. sanctions. The system must ensure nile justice? They now advocate poli- Mr. Chairman, if I might, I want to that sanctions are imposed on juvenile cies that, just weeks ago, they even ac- make sure it is very clear that the gen- offenders for the very first offense, knowledged lack merit. In March, the tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS), starting with the first misdemeanor, Subcommittee on Crime chairman despite his criticism and concern about and that sanctions escalate in inten- stated, ‘‘Taking consequences seriously pending amendments, he does and has sity with each subsequent, more seri- is not a call for locking all juveniles all along supported this underlying ous delinquent offense. up, nor does it imply the housing of ju- bill, H.R. 1501, that is out here right Common sense and research both veniles, even violent hardened juve- now, unamended. Am I not correct? make it clear that ensuring early ap- niles, with adults. I for one am opposed Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, if the propriate sanctions for wrongdoing is to such commingling.’’ gentleman will yield, he is absolutely the best way to direct youngsters away Yet, today, the majority is pushing correct. We support H.R. 1501. But we from a life of crime and into a life of legislation which tries more children have never had hearings on any of the productive citizenship. as adults, houses more juveniles as other accompanying amendments. At the same time, the bill calls for adults, imposes a whole slew of new Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, re- graduated sanctions. It provides flexi- mandatory minimum penalties, and, claiming my time, I just wanted to bility. It ensures that a court’s disposi- yes, the death penalty that Repub- make the point again that we start tion is tailored to the individual juve- licans shunned only a month ago and today with a very bipartisan product nile. It allows for the imposition of which clearly will not work. that Democrats, Republicans alike, graduated sanctions to be discre- What is really extraordinary about support on juvenile justice. tionary. That is, a State or locality these proposals is just how meaningless Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to can still qualify even if its system of they are. There are fewer than 150 pros- the distinguished gentleman from graduated sanctions allows juvenile ecutions in the Federal system each Texas (Mr. DELAY), the majority whip. courts to opt out. The bill simply pro- year, and such changes are likely to af- Mr. DeLAY. Mr. Chairman, I appre- vides that when there are such opt-outs fect only a small percentage of these ciate the gentleman from Florida a record must be sent at the end of the cases. yielding me this time. year explaining why a sanction was not So these proposals do not represent Mr. Chairman, I just think it is sort imposed. This is working well in cer- serious attempts at legislation. Rather, of ironic that the very ones that want- tain States and localities and is not an they are a transparent attempt to leg- ed us to come straight from the Senate undue burden. islate by sound bite and kill a bill that with a bill to the floor with no consid- The juvenile justice systems of the they themselves only recently agreed eration are now complaining because Nation are principally a State respon- was the best approach to juvenile jus- there was not enough consideration. sibility. The Federal Government can- tice. Mr. Chairman, I just want to say that not begin to adequately fund these long Housing juveniles in adult prison fa- the truth will make us free if we admit neglected programs, but we can provide cilities means more kids likely to com- what the truth is. Every once in a the seed money in the incentive grants mit suicide, to be murdered, physically while, I read something or hear some- in H.R. 1501 that will hopefully stimu- or sexually abused, than their counter- thing that blows away all that smoke late all 50 States to repair their broken parts in juvenile facilities. As a matter that clouds a particular issue. A letter juvenile justice systems. There is noth- of fact, children in adult jails or prison written by a Mr. Addison Dawson to ing more important to addressing the have been shown to be 5 times more the San Angelo Standard-Times is just question of child safety and youth vio- likely to be assaulted and 8 times more such a statement. In fact, after I make lence that we can do today than to pass likely to commit suicide than children this statement, I do not think anybody this bill. in juvenile facilities. else needs to speak. We just need to b 1230 So the repeated studies of pros- vote. I am convinced that whatever else we ecuting juveniles as adults indicate The following is Mr. Dawson’s letter, do in the next couple of days, it will that rather than serving as a deterrent which Paul Harvey read on his radio pale in comparison to the significance to juvenile crime, prosecuting more ju- show: ‘‘For the life of me, I can’t un- of enacting this base bipartisan bill veniles as adults merely leads to great- derstand what could have gone wrong that was drafted long before Littleton. er and more serious recidivism. in Littleton, Colorado. If only the par- Holding youth accountable for their If we are truly interested in juvenile ents had kept their children away from acts, giving them consequences, is the justice reform, we must begin by re- the guns, we wouldn’t have had such a best prevention possible that we as leg- jecting unprincipled amendments al- tragedy. Yeah, it must have been the islators can enact to stop the flood of lowed by the rule that would cut the guns. youth violence and restore a safe envi- heart out of this bill and stick to the ‘‘It couldn’t have been because half ronment for our children in our principles of H.R. 1501. This was the our children are being raised in broken schools, on the playgrounds, and on our bill produced by a bipartisan process, homes. It couldn’t have been because streets. unanimously approved by the Sub- our children get to spend an average of Mr. Chairman, meaningful juvenile committee on Crime. 30 seconds in meaningful conversation justice reform is within our reach. Our In the wake of the recent school trag- with their parents each day. young people deserve nothing less. edies in Littleton, Colorado, Conyers, ‘‘After all, we give our children qual- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance Georgia, and other places, the Amer- ity time. It couldn’t have been because of my time. ican people now deserve and expect re- we treat our children as pets and our Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield form. We cannot and should not allow pets as children. myself as much time as I may con- false arguments about getting tough on ‘‘It couldn’t have been because we sume. crime and prosecuting juveniles as place our children in day care centers Mr. Chairman, I am deeply dis- adults to prevent us from achieving where they learn their socialization appointed to see the abandonment of these important goals. skills among their peers under the law

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 13098 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 of the jungle, while employees who the amendment of the gentleman from ual activity. I guess Mr. Starr may be have no vested interest in the children Texas (Mr. DELAY), the majority whip, in trouble. I do not know about his look on and make sure that no blood is correcting the teaching of evolution. prosecutorial immunity. But as I read spilled. I have to say, as I listened to him, I the Hyde amendment, we will have to It couldn’t have been because we have not heard such an angry denun- stop selling the Starr report. allow our children to watch, on aver- ciation of the American people since Now, it does say it is okay to sell it age, 7 hours of television a day filled SDS used to pick at me 30 years ago. I if it has serious literary, artistic, polit- with the glorification of sex and vio- guess there is a degree of anti-Ameri- ical, or scientific value. I guess in the lence that isn’t even fit for adult con- canism here that I had not anticipated. case of the Starr report, people sumption. It is the American people’s fault. They thought it was going to have some po- ‘‘It couldn’t have been because we are involved in family planning. They litical value for their side. It turned allow (or even encourage) our children are teaching evolution. They are doing out not to have any. to enter into virtual worlds in which, all these things. But if someone under 17 read that be- to win the game, one must kill as Plus, I guess somebody ought to arise cause of his or her prurient, shameful, many opponents as possible in the to defend the States. The gentleman or morbid interest, so now we are out- most sadistic way possible. from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) said the lawing shameful interest, it is not ‘‘It couldn’t have been because we States’ juvenile justice is broken down. shown. I mean, this is really very, very have sterilized and contracepted our The gentleman from Texas (Mr. serious. families down to sizes so small that the DELAY) is mad at the States. The poor The problem is this, the original children we do have are so spoiled with States. I guess the States rights move- version of this sweeping censorship was material things that they come to ment we should officially inter today. introduced on June 8. No unit of the equate the receiving of the material What we have today is an announce- House Committee on the Judiciary has ment. Hey, States, you do not know to with love. been able to vote on it, to amend it, to handle your local criminal business. ‘‘It couldn’t have been because our study it. We now, 8 days later, have a We, the all-knowing Congress, will children, who historically have been new version. I think it is about the take care of it. So we will abolish the seen as a blessing from God, are now third version. teaching of evolution, and we will di- being viewed as either a mistake cre- We are no longer going to mandate minish States rights, and we will solve ated when contraception fails or incon- that every seller of recorded music in veniences that parents try to raise in the problem. I guess I wished they had stopped at America give out copies of the lyrics. their spare time. It couldn’t have been that, though, because I am now looking Congress is only going to recommend because we give 2-year prison sentences at the amendment that has been made this to every retailer in America in our to teenagers who kill their newborns. in order by the gentleman from Illinois infinite wisdom and disregard for local ‘‘It couldn’t have been because our (Mr. HYDE), the chairman of the com- autonomy. school systems teach the children that mittee, and I must say I am impressed b 1245 they are nothing but glorified apes who by the gentleman’s discretion. I have have evolutionized out of some pri- I do not think we understand this not seen him here all morning. I am fully. This is a broad assault on the mordial soup of mud. not surprised that he does not want to ‘‘It couldn’t have been because we first amendment. We cannot show in be associated with all of this. here, for instance, physical contact teach our children that there are no But the gentleman’s amendment, I with a person’s clothed buttocks. So all laws of morality that transcend us, was going to ask, Mr. Chairman, if we those pats of congratulations in ath- that everything is relative and that ac- could have the debate on the Hyde letic contests I guess we will have to tions do not have consequences. What amendment after 10 o’clock tonight. I avert the cameras for. Now, maybe the heck, the President gets away with know we are going to be in late. As I that is not true, but there is nothing in it. read this amendment, I do not think it ‘‘Nah, it must have been the guns.’’ is a fit subject to be discussing when here that says it is not. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am children are listening. There are some Mr. Chairman, I understand the po- pleased to yield 5 minutes to the gen- graphic physical descriptions here of litical bind the other side is in, but to tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. the human body that I do not know use the first amendment to get out of FRANK), the senior member of the Com- that we will want to talk about. it on 8 days notice is very inappro- mittee on the Judiciary. I must say, I think if anybody simply priate. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. read this bill on the floor of the House Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I Chairman, this has been a hard bill to during family viewing hours, if it were yield such time as she may consume to follow because the majority has been not for our constitutional immunity of the gentlewoman from Washington kind of playing a legislative shell which we have really heard, he or she (Ms. DUNN). game. We started with this bill and could be in trouble. But I have some Ms. DUNN. Mr. Chairman, I thank that bill, and this bill became part of problems. the gentleman for yielding me this that bill, and that bill went into that It does say that one cannot show, for time, and I also want to thank the bill, and this amendment was pulled instance, and it includes sculpture. One chairman for working with me in this out to be offered by a Member who cannot show sculpture of the breast last year and including the Schoolyard might have a little political difficulty. below the top of the nipple. I have seen Safety Act in the outlines of this bill. So I am not familiar with everything some statues which I think do that. After the shooting in Springfield, Or- that is in here. But after listening to Now, it says one cannot show them to egon, the gentleman from Oregon (Mr. the majority whip, I have to read it a minor. So I guess we are going to DEFAZIO) and I teamed up to introduce more closely, because I may have start having 17 or over only into sculp- this legislation, the Schoolyard Safety missed the part in which we ban the ture gardens. Act, which provides a 24-hour holding teaching of evolution. One cannot show other physical period for students who bring guns to I know we have had a lot of discus- parts. I suppose old enough statues to school. sion of what was causing the problems have parts broken off may be okay. But In my State, these students are auto- here, but I just heard the majority intact statues are probably going to be matically expelled, but the Schoolyard whip say it was Charles Darwin’s fault. a problem. We are discriminating Safety Act would also require that It is apparently evolution. It is teach- against modern sculptures because one they be detained. This holding period is ing children that they are the products can only show these kids a statue that incredibly important. It provides for of evolution that is the cause of this. has fallen apart. the protection and the safety of both So I will have to watch more care- It says one cannot show to someone our children in the classroom and rel- fully for the amendments when we get under 17 a narrative description of sex- atives at home who might be targets of

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13099 the student’s anger, as happened in the off the streets and out of trouble. Since Young people today are required to Springfield, Oregon, shooting. It also 1995, $95 million has been provided by work harder and learn faster. They provides an intervention for those juve- Congress to help expand the program grapple with more than we ever did at niles who bring a gun to school but who to reach as many children as possible. their age, yet they still make time for may need mental health treatment or And I am proud to say that much of their faith, their families and their counseling. this money came about because we in neighborhoods. The isolated tragic Yesterday, I had a visit from some the Congress fought for it. We did put headlines aside, young people give us very special women in my district. our money where our mouth is. hope. Today, Congress is called upon to They belong to a group called Mothers I would like to especially thank the act in their name. Against Violence in America. There gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. ROG- Mr. Chairman, I am proud to join was a young woman and her mother in ERS), the gentleman from West Vir- with the distinguished chairman of the this group. The young woman, Rachel, ginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN), and members of full Committee on the Judiciary, and was shot at Garfield High School in Se- the Subcommittee on Commerce, Jus- the distinguished chairman of the Sub- attle, Washington. The other mothers tice, State, and Judiciary of the Com- committee on Crime to support this who came to my office had lost sons or mittee on Appropriations who not only important legislation. daughters in school shootings, includ- supported these funds but fought to in- H.R. 1501 will attack the problem of ing one mother whose son was killed in crease the amount we provide to this youth violence at the source. This bill the school shooting in Moses Lake, incredibly successful program. will send the resources of the Federal Washington. And these women are the As a result of our support, and Government directly to State and local reason that the gentleman from Oregon through the dedicated efforts of Robbie officials and bypass unnecessary bu- (Mr. DEFAZIO) and I introduced the Calloway, Senior Vice President for the reaucracies. This legislation will em- Schoolyard Safety Act and why I Boys and Girls Clubs of America, four power local officials to hire more pros- worked so hard to get this 24-hour new clubs have opened each week for ecutors, more counselors and more holding provision into the juvenile jus- the past 3 years, and an additional intervention experts. It will provide for tice bill. 200,000 young people were served each additional law enforcement training, In addition to this effort at the Fed- year. drug rehabilitation programs, and in- eral level, the State of Washington re- Certainly we all know that young novative school safety programs. This cently passed a new law requiring a 24- people need meaningful and caring legislation will also provide resources hour holding period for young people guidance. They need to find outlets for correctional facilities. that help insulate them from inappro- who bring guns on to school grounds. I Mr. Chairman, for 10 years I was a priate peer pressure, while at the same simply in this colloquy, Mr. Chairman, prosecutor and a judge in Los Angeles time work to change the culture that want to thank the chairman and clar- County. I saw more often than I prefer results in that inappropriate peer pres- ify this new Washington State law will to recall the effects of violence in the sure. Programs like the Boys and Girls be consistent with the provisions that home, in the schools and on our Clubs have made a difference, and we are included in this bill. streets. It is right to punish criminals can do much more if we help them. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, will swiftly and severely to send a message Some of my colleagues have worked with the gentlewoman yield? that this violence will not be tolerated. Ms. DUNN. I yield to the gentleman me on this issue in the past, and I welcome But we must not stop there. from Florida. all of those others who join us today in a con- We must attack youth violence from Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I structive effort to be sure that our young peo- would certainly say that they are con- ple have the right opportunities to be produc- all fronts. One of the best ways we can sistent. The gentlewoman has done ad- tive individuals. do this is at the local level. ‘‘Band- mirable service in providing the base Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I Aid’’ Federal bureaucratic policies are legislation of what she has just de- yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from worth little when violence infects a scribed, and that under the various California (Mr. ROGAN), a member of local community. H.R. 1501 gives local purposes that a State or local commu- the committee. experts the tools to ensure safe schools nity is allowed to use the grant money Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank and safe communities. in 1501 to improve the juvenile justice the chairman of the Subcommittee on Communities are working together system, those purposes would include Crime for yielding this time to me. to beat the problem of drugs and gangs those which she has described in her Mr. Chairman, the halls of Congress and violence. I have seen local pro- legislation. They would be included are hallowed. The men and women who grams that give me hope, from the particularly under the 13th provision in preceded us left a legislative heritage Hillsides Home in Pasadena to the the present bill. for the ages: landmark civil rights leg- after-school programs at the Burbank Ms. DUNN. Mr. Chairman, I thank islation, education reform bills, dec- YMCA in my district. Neighborhoods the gentleman for those assurances. larations of war and of peace. Often are teaming with schools and teachers Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield these bills opened doors paving the way who work with students to ensure that 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from for great change in our country. Today, they appreciate the effects of anti- Michigan (Mr. BARCIA). we come together knowing that our social behavior before it escalates into Mr. BARCIA. Mr. Chairman, I thank work on juvenile justice may well save tragedy. This proposed legislation em- the gentleman, my colleague from lives in the future, but it regrettably powers these programs and will give Michigan and the ranking member, for cannot change the outcome of recent State and local programs new weapons yielding me this time. tragedies in our Nation’s schools. in their violence prevention arsenals. I am pleased to see the level of inter- While the wounds inflicted in Little- Mr. Chairman, the Consequences for est in juvenile justice on this floor ton and Conyers still leave us reeling, Juvenile Offenders Act received broad today. I strongly support these efforts we can do something now. We can join bipartisan support in committee and is to address the increasing problems of together with schools, churches, par- supported by families across this coun- youth violence. With an estimated 1500 ents and students to work to prevent try. I support it as a member of the gangs and 120,000 gang members, juve- similar tragedies from ever again oc- Committee on the Judiciary, as a Mem- nile crime is a genuine concern and it curring. As we move forward this ber of Congress, but most importantly is critical that the Congress address morning, I echo the sentiments of the I support it as the father of two young this issue. distinguished chairman of the Com- children. I look forward to seeing this For a number of years, we have sup- mittee on Rules, who yesterday re- bill make its way to the President’s ported providing funds to the Boys and minded us that our legislative focus desk. I urge my colleagues to join us Girls Clubs of America, which have must be to protect our Nation’s stu- today to support this landmark legisla- been so instrumental in keeping kids dents now and in the future. tion.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 13100 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Then we add on to that all the con- mined the system of this House and 3 minutes to the gentleman from Vir- stitutional amendments posing as how they have confused everybody, di- ginia (Mr. SCOTT), the ranking member amendments to a bill that have signifi- vided these bills, taken a good bill and of the subcommittee, who is the co- cant speech and religious implications. destroyed it, and they are attempting author of the underlying bill, H.R. 1501. None of those received deliberation. to do the work of the NRA with a sec- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I would We ought not consider this kind of ond bill where they will water down like to point out that 1501 was actually legislation; sound bites going back and what was done on the Senate side. cosponsored by all of the members of forth without any deliberation. We This is outrageous. We should not the subcommittee, both Democratic started out and ought to go back to the have to put up with it. We should not and Republican, and it came through a original bill, 1501, and after that the bi- destroy the work of the committee deliberative process. partisan bill that was reported out of that was done in order to have a good We had hearings and discussions the education subcommittee, 1150, and juvenile justice bill. And we need to about what needed to be done to reduce stick with those rather than this proc- stop it right now. We need to stop it. juvenile crime. We had hearings, and in ess that is totally out of control. We need to take the juvenile justice one hearing judges and advocates and Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, may bill that was heard in committee and researchers pointed out that graduated I inquire how much time remains on hear it and pass it out without all of sanctions would be very helpful to each side? these amendments, and then we need judges in helping with the reducing of The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman to deal with the gun safety legislation juvenile crime. from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has 10 coming from the Senate side and vote What they said was that many judges minutes remaining; and the gentleman it up or down. are relegated to a choice between in- from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 151⁄2 I am absolutely outraged by the idea carceration and probation with very minutes remaining. that mandatory minimum sentencing little in between, and what they needed Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield for 13- or 14-year-olds in this bill would were other services and punishments 3 minutes to the gentlewoman from create not only new Federal crimes but that could be individualized. In the bill California (Ms. WATERS), a member of simply take away the discretion of it says that drug rehabilitation and the Committee on the Judiciary and judges, lock up kids 14 years old, put counseling and community services the past chairperson of the Congres- them in the Federal system, create and other punishments could be used sional Black Caucus. more people in our prisons, and do and funded through this bill, and that Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I would nothing to reduce crime. the punishment or additional services like to commend the gentleman from We know what mandatory minimum had to be individualized for the par- Michigan (Mr. CONYERS), our ranking sentencing is doing. It is simply filling ticular child. That is the bill. That is member, and the gentleman from Vir- up the prisons and throwing away what went through the regular order of ginia (Mr. SCOTT) for the tremendous America’s youth. We can do better hearings and subcommittee markup, work they did in the Committee on the than this. This is outrageous. Please do and it was unanimously adopted. Judiciary on H.R. 1501 to really put not let them get away with this. Now look at where we are. We are forth before this House a real bill to Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield considering additional amendments deal with the problems of young people 31⁄4 minutes to the distinguished gen- that did not go through the regular and the juvenile justice system. tlewoman from Texas (Ms. JACKSON- process. And the reason they could not Unfortunately, it is now all threat- LEE). have made it through the regular proc- ened because there is some attempt to Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. ess is they could not have withstood try and divert people’s attention away Chairman, I think it is important to scrutiny. from the gun safety issue and to lit- focus on what we are trying to do here Look at the idea that we are going to erally take this piece of legislation and on behalf of America’s children. try more juveniles as adults. That is in pile on it everybody’s wild thoughts So many of us have gathered around one of the amendments. It ignores the about every issue that they have been these issues in our capacity as mem- studies. We have many studies that concerned about, I guess, all of their bers of the Committee on the Judici- show that the adult time that they lives. ary, members of organizations that would get in adult court would actu- We have people who would destroy promote children’s issues. I work with ally be shorter than the juvenile time. the Constitution by piling on here all Members who are interested in chil- All of the studies show that the crime kinds of amendments that will under- dren’s issues on a national level, Mem- rate will go up if we treat for juveniles mine our first amendment rights. We bers of Congress who have joined to- as adults. We could not have gone have people who have decided they are gether in the Congressional Children’s through a regular process with that, going to take this bill and force the Caucus. because it would have been defeated in Ten Commandments to be posted some- Just a week ago, many of us spent the committee. But if we are out here where. We have every kind of thought time with Mrs. Tipper Gore, with indi- just slinging sound bites at each other, in over 40 amendments piled on top of viduals from around this Nation, in the then obviously there is a chance of get- this bill that will simply destroy the first ever in the history of this Na- ting that provision through. bill. tion’s White House Conference on Men- Like mandatory minimums. We tal Health. I co-chaired the meeting could not get that through a regular b 1300 section that dealt with children’s men- process because we would have to de- The American public and families tal health. fend against the studies, like the want some assistance. They want some It was clear there by experts from RAND study that showed that manda- help. We can do a better job of crime around the Nation that there were tory minimums are a waste of the tax- prevention. And we do not need to do it other ways to address the concerns of payers’ money. There is a lot we can do with these kinds of outrageous amend- our troubled youth throughout this with the taxpayers’ money other than ments, nor do we need to talk about country. I was gratified that, even be- mandatory minimums if our goal is to locking up young people and killing fore that conference and the wisdom of reduce crime. Also, that attacks the them with mandatory minimum sen- Mrs. Gore, the excellence of that con- very foundation of what we heard in tencing. I think we are better public ference, the focus on children, the de- subcommittee, and that is that the policymakers than that and we can do liberation around children and pro- punishment must be individualized to a better job. viding resources to listen to children, the particular child. Mandatory min- I think the New York Times got it as was told to many of us who engaged imum is a one-size-fits-all. This is what right when it said, ‘‘Republican mis- our young people in our districts, went everybody gets regardless of the par- chief on gun control.’’ What they basi- to the schools, that we had to do some- ticular needs. cally describe is how they have under- thing other than locking children up.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13101 We know the tragedy of Eric Harris through encouraging teamwork, leadership Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I and his associate and the tragedy of and personal development. Mentoring pro- yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from Columbine. But we also know the trag- grams pair young people with adults who work Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON), a distin- edy of killing young people in our to encourage individuals to develop to their guished member of the committee. urban centers for years and years. And fullest potential. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I clearly, we find out that trying juve- Job training programs instill responsibility thank the gentleman for yielding me niles as adults will suggest not a de- and encourage a strong work ethic. Commu- the time. I want to express my deep ap- crease in crime but an increase in nity-based activities encourage respect for oth- preciation to him for his leadership on crime. It endangers kids. It federalizes ers and the local environment. this very, very important issue. State juvenile offenses. Each of these prevention methods provide Before I go into the substance of the When we went through the com- alternatives to criminal activity. If young people legislation, I want to respond first of mittee process, it was very clear that are taught to respect themselves and their all to the gentlewoman from California the myriad of studies and witnesses on communities, they are less likely to get in- who put out the idea that, under this H.R. 1501 told us that locking up juve- volved in violent behavior. legislation, there is going to be manda- niles in Federal penitentiaries was not I am particularly interested in providing more tory minimums for 13- and 14-year-olds the way to solve the problem. They are mental health services for children. Mental that are going to go to prison. And the subject to rape and abuse. It is tragic. health programs that screen, detect and treat gentlewoman from Texas raised, basi- I thought that we had a meeting of disorders are crucial to preventing children cally, the same argument that we can- the minds that would focus us on pre- from ending up in the juvenile justice system. not lock up juveniles. vention programs like athletics and Almost 60% of teenagers in juvenile detention And, of course, that is not in the base mentoring programs, job training, have behavioral, mental or emotional dis- bill that we are speaking of today, but community-based activities such as the orders. it will be offered later on in an amend- Fifth Ward Enrichment Program that It is estimated that two-thirds of all young ment. But that amendment, which the takes children out of inner-city Hous- people are not getting the mental health treat- chairman certainly can address more ton and gives them an opportunity, in- ment they need. There are 13.7 million or 20% appropriately than me, it requires be- asmuch as they will be traveling to Af- of America’s children with diagnosable mental fore there is any prosecution of a juve- rica this summer, giving them an in- or emotional disorder. These disorders range nile in the Federal system that the At- centive to be something else. from attention deficit disorder and depression torney General of the United States I thought that we had focused our- to bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. has to approve that. selves on mental health resources, We also need to put mental health profes- I believe, whether it is Attorney Gen- guidance counselors, school nurses, and sionals in the schools—counselors, psycholo- eral Janet Reno or another attorney individuals who are available to listen gists and social workers that can help recog- general, that they would use their dis- to children, hot lines. I thought that nize the needs before it is too late. I am cur- cretion very carefully so that, in the we could work on the study by the Sur- rently working on a bill that will place mental normal case where we have got a delin- geon General to determine whether or health services in the schools. By making quent juvenile, that they are going to not our children are torpedoed with these services available in the schools, we be handled in the juvenile court sys- violent entertainment and so we could can spot mental health issues in children early tem, as they always have been. come up with reliable solutions. I before we have escalated incidents in the So I think we have to be careful in thought that we would understand, as schools. this debate not to go down that path of we had done before, that prisons, Fed- Each of these methods of prevention pro- fear of just putting out that we are eral prisons, and juveniles do not work. vides alternatives to simply warehousing juve- going to be locking up juveniles, be- Unfortunately, we have an amend- niles in prison. Again, we clearly want to send cause that is not the design of this. ment offered by the chairman of the a message to America that we want to de- We are getting ahead of ourselves in Subcommittee on Crime, with whom I velop productive, responsible citizens. Young this debate. We need to come back to have worked and who I have respect people who commit violent crime must be pun- the accountability block grant pro- for, that takes all of our opportunity ished, but we must do our part to make crime posal that is in H.R. 1501. There are to solve these problems, deal with vio- unattractive. going to be a number of amendments lence and guns, and particularly this Given the recent violent incidences in Little- that are going to be offered down the 1501, away from us. It locks up our ju- ton, Colorado and Conyers, Georgia, the time road. In fact, I had my staff put to- veniles. It throws away the key. And it could not be more urgent for this Congress to gether the whole stack of them. It is does not focus us on rehabilitation and pass this legislation. going to be a fair debate. The Demo- preventive programs. This debate should be centered on how we crats offered amendments. The Repub- I rise here today to speak in support of the can save our children from violence and from licans offered amendments. Juvenile Justice bill, H.R. 1501, the Con- committing violent acts. This legislation is a The will of this House will work, just sequences for Juvenile Offenders Act of 1999. first step in that direction. like we did in campaign finance re- This bill was a bipartisan effort in the Judiciary This first step gives us the chance to offer form, when there were over 200 amend- Committee. I am a cosponsor of this bill, some solutions for preventing crime. It also ments offered. I believe that is how de- which passed unanimously out of the Sub- enables us to articulate punishments for vio- mocracy works, and we will be able to committee on Crime. lent offenders. But, alone this bill is not work that through the will of this H.R. 1501 offers a balanced approach that enough. We also need to adopt provisions that House with what I believe will be a encompasses both punishment and prevention will address the issue of guns in the hands of very good product. If people do not like of juvenile offenders. We must enact stiff pen- our children and the effect of our popular cul- an amendment, they get to vote alties for repeat violent offenders, but we must ture. against it. If it is something that is not forget the needs of other youth who can I thank you for the opportunity to speak on good, they get to vote for it. be rehabilitated through means other than this bill. As I stated earlier, I was an original Now let us come back to what is punishment. cosponsor of this legislation in the Sub- very, very important; and that is what I am a strong supporter of prevention pro- committee on Crime. It is unfortunate that we the gentleman from Florida (Mr. grams for young people who are risk. I believe were unable to present this bill through the MCCOLLUM) has prepared for us in this that these programs—after school athletics, proper Committee channels, namely through a bill, the juvenile accountability block mentoring programs, job training, community- markup. grant proposal. based activities and mental health services However, we must use this opportunity to First of all, it deals with the serious are vital to keeping children away from crime. pass meaningful Juvenile Justice legislation. problem of violent juvenile crime. It There is strong evidence to support that We cannot afford to waste this opportunity. If gives the flexibility to the States to prevention programs work. Athletic programs we do, it could be a matter of life and death address this issue. It gives resources to prepare young people for success in life for our children. them. We all want to deal with the

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 13102 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 problem of violence, as we saw in Col- I will later on offer an amendment everything from nursery rhymes to umbine High School in Colorado. that will provide restorative justice classic books and movies. One of the problems, I think, about programs for these juveniles, and I ask The juvenile justice bill that I co- that difficult circumstance of the pro- my colleagues to consider this as well. sponsored did so many wonderful and bation officer who had these young Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield important things. It was adopted in a people to deal with who were errant, 3 minutes to the distinguished gen- bipartisan fashion by Democrats and who were a problem and they ulti- tleman from New Jersey (Mr. ROTH- Republicans. mately resorted to violence, if that MAN). Unfortunately, my Republican col- person perhaps had had more resources, Mr. ROTHMAN. Mr. Chairman, I leagues are now about to impose poison less of a caseload, perhaps he could thank the gentleman for yielding me pill amendments on a bipartisan juve- have done more. the time. nile justice bill for some ideological What this bill does is to provide $1.5 Mr. Chairman, I am a cosponsor of reason or perhaps some other good- billion in grant money so the States H.R. 1501. I cosponsored this legislation faith reason. But it is the wrong thing can apply for that money. They can because I believe that the grant pro- to do. apply what works in their jurisdiction. grams it contains will be effective in Let us debate these other amend- It gives them creativity. It gives them helping our States and local govern- ments separately and pass a clean, bi- flexibility. It gives them resources so ments combat juvenile crime. It adds partisan juvenile justice bill. they can deal with the juveniles, not the money necessary for antidrug, Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I by sending them to prison, locking youth gang and youth violence pro- yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman them up, but by having accountability grams. It provides more money for from Florida (Mrs. FOWLER), the vice- in the juvenile court system. And ac- youth probation officers and prosecu- chairman of the Republican Con- countability is important. tors, more money for drug courts and ference. I went to a county, Washington gun courts, and more money for valu- Mrs. FOWLER. Mr. Chairman, as we County, Arkansas, and talked to the able after-school programs. discuss our competing solutions to this juvenile delinquents who were actually But, unfortunately, there are those serious problem of violence in our soci- incarcerated there; and it was clear to in this body who would try to amend ety, we must remember what is truly me in talking to them that what this bill with poison pill amendments important: our children. caught their attention was whenever that should be, at the very least, de- It is our children who are at ground they knew they could not manipulate bated and voted on separately from our zero of this epidemic of violence. As a the system anymore. And so, whenever juvenile justice bill. mother, I cannot think of anything they are held accountable, it makes a I do applaud what my chairman, the more frightening than just that image. difference and they start getting their gentleman from Illinois Mr. HYDE), is b 1315 lives straightened out. trying to do by offering amendment I look at this bill that the gentleman number 112. I respect the gentleman We must consider the consequences from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has au- from Illinois Mr. HYDE) greatly. Unfor- for their future. There are too many thored and it says that one criteria for tunately, that bill goes too far in try- negative forces acting on our children getting this grant money is that we ing to protect our children from ex- and our families today. have a system of graduated sanctions. Years ago the words and actions that And I read the bill and it says that the plicit sexual or violent material. On the whole, it does some good we see so casually used today in music, States should ensure that the sanc- things. But its cure is so extreme as to television, movies and everyday con- tions are imposed on juvenile offenders versation would have horrified this Na- for every offence. That is right, that practically kill the patient. It does not tion. As Senator DANIEL MOYNIHAN sanctions escalate in intensity with strike the common-sense balance be- noted in a 1993 article, we have defined each subsequent, more serious delin- tween protections for our children and deviancy down. The easy answer, of quent or criminal offence. retaining our constitutional liberties. That is the way it should be. When It is so broad as to be unconstitutional course, is to focus solely on weapons, we deal with our teenagers, we have and unenforceable. but easy answers are rarely the com- one offence. If they do it again, it is a We cannot ban parents from singing plete solution. We must look at the en- stronger offence. And that is exactly ‘‘Rockabye Baby’’ because it contains tire picture, which clearly includes ex- what this block grant program will en- the image of a child falling out of a amining these negative influences and courage the States to do. It is a terrific tree. Nor can we ban books like Tom discovering a way to eliminate or coun- start to dealing with the culture of vio- Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn because teract them while enforcing the con- lence, the difficulty that our teenagers they contain some levels of violence. cept of right and wrong and holding face day in and day out. But again, it No, I do believe that there is too people responsible for their actions. does give them the flexibility in each much violence, cruelty, and sadism in Let us remove politics from the equa- State to address the programs as they our culture; and I do believe that it oc- tion and focus on our children and on see fit. curs too frequently on television, in instilling responsibility while counter- If my colleagues look in Arkansas, it movies, in video games, and even in the acting these negative influences. dramatizes the seriousness of this prob- lyrics of songs on the radio. I want to commend the gentleman lem. In 1998, almost 10 percent of all But parents have to get involved and from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) for intro- criminal arrests in Arkansas were juve- do their jobs to monitor what our kids ducing this excellent bill which will niles. But what is even more fright- watch on television and how long they provide critical resources to our States ening, when we compare that 10 per- can watch television, to keep children to assist in their efforts to combat ju- cent of all arrests for juveniles, 24 per- out of movies that they are not old venile crime. cent of the arrests for violent crime, enough to see in the first place, to keep Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield including murder, rape and aggravated them from renting R-rated or PG–13- 3 minutes to the gentleman from Mas- assault, were juveniles. Twenty-four rated movies if they are not old sachusetts (Mr. DELAHUNT), a member percent of violent crime in my State enough, to install smut-blocking cen- of the Committee on the Judiciary. was committed by juveniles. soring devices on their own home com- Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I And for that reason, this bill, this puters, and to keep guns out of their think today is really a sad day. It is a block grant program, gives Arkansas, own children’s hands. sad day for this institution, and it is a gives New York, the authority to tailor Yes, we must get the parents in- sad day for America. the programs, to have the resources to volved as one key element in address- In 1 year firearms killed not a single address this. This is a staggering prob- ing youth violence, as well as keeping child in Japan, 19 in Britain, 57 in Ger- lem that needs to be addressed, and guns out of the kids’ hands. We can many, 109 in France, 153 in Canada and this legislation will do this. protect our children without outlawing 5,285 in the United States. We had an

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00027 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13103 opportunity to do something about each other, and they do drugs, and they percent more likely to be attacked that. The gentleman from New Jersey kill each other, and that is bad. But with a weapon and eight times more (Mr. PASCRELL) had introduced an the answer is not just to be negative, likely to commit suicide than juveniles amendment, an amendment which but to look and see what is reasonable. in a juvenile facility. would have initiated and authorized Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield There are too many examples of hor- the funding and the resources for the 3 minutes to the gentleman from Mas- rible results by locking up kids with development of technology which sachusetts (Mr. MEEHAN), a member of adults, but I will provide just one ex- would have created and designed a fire- the Committee on the Judiciary. ample. Seventeen-year-old Christopher arm which could not have been dis- Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank Peterman was held in an adult jail in charged by anyone other than the the ranking member for having yielded Boise, Idaho, for failing to pay $73 in owner, by anyone other than the this time to me. traffic fine. For over 14 days he was owner. I rise in opposition to the McCollum tortured and finally murdered by other Now out of that more than 5,000 chil- amendment to H.R. 1501. I think this prisoners, a death penalty for $73 in dren that are killed every year in this amendment undermines the bipartisan traffic tickets. Nation by firearms, 1,800 of them, 1800 consensus reached on this bill, a bill We can do better than this, we have children, our children, are killed either that was cosponsored by every single got to treat kids appropriately. This accidentally or by self-inflicted member of the Subcommittee on Crime amendment should be defeated. wounds, and we, the majority in this and reported unanimously to the full Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Congress, the Committee on Rules, committee where unfortunately we myself such time as I may consume. could not find it, did not have the po- never considered this bill. Can my col- Mr. Chairman, if we are truly inter- litical will to make that amendment in leagues imagine the Committee on the ested in juvenile justice reform, we order, and yet we see amendment after Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime must begin by rejecting the amend- amendment, such as mandatory sen- meets, all the Members cosponsor a ments that have been stuck on to the tences which have again and again bill, report it out unanimously, and we very fine principles contained in H.R. proved ineffective in terms of deterring cannot get a vote in the full com- 1501, a bipartisan bill that came out of crime and reducing violence in the mittee. It is kind of puzzling why this the Subcommittee on Crime, and I re- United States, but we could not find it would happen, but rather than leave mind the gentleman, the chairman of in this institution to save 1,800 chil- this very good piece of juvenile justice the committee, and I praise this bill, dren a year who die as a result of self- legislation alone, the Republicans have this is a measure that has been very inflicted wounds because of accidental taken the opportunity to introduce carefully vetted, but all of the other shootings. We could not do it. poison pill amendments to guarantee amendments that have been approved, Mr. Chairman, it says something its defeat, and I must admit that I find some 44, have never been in the Com- about the priorities of this institution. this strategy frustrating. If the bill mittee on the Judiciary. In other Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I was good enough 8 months ago when it words, the Committee on Rules has be- yield 1 minute to the gentleman from was first drafted by the gentleman come the original committee of juris- California (Mr. CUNNINGHAM). from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) and the diction for a juvenile justice bill, and Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, I gentleman from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT), for that reason those amendments would like to speak to my colleagues, then why is it suddenly not good must be rejected. and I do not think they will disagree enough now? Why do we need to ruin a Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I with what I am going to say. The ma- good bipartisan bill that includes the yield myself the balance of the time jority of people in our jails today, most right amount of prevention dollars for that I have remaining. of them is drug related. the States while not attaching too We have had quite a debate here on First of all, I want to thank my col- many conditions to the States’ use of the general debate today on 1501. Many leagues, including the gentleman from that money? In a momentary fit of bi- of the topics brought up were about Michigan (Mr. CONYERS), that when my partisanship did the Republicans forget amendments rather than about the own son was involved with it, many of to include all of their mean-spirited, base bill. We have heard a number of my colleagues from the other side of counterproductive, juvenile justice myths, including one I just heard then, the aisle in the Judiciary came forward measures now that they want to add to that somehow this legislation or subse- and offered to help, and I cannot tell the bill? quent amendment will involve incar- my colleagues what that meant. And I First, this bill transfers too many ju- cerating juveniles with adults. No do support strong minimum veniles to adult court even though amendment I know of that I am going mandatories, the gentleman spoke a studies have shown that transferring to offer, has anything to do with, would minute ago, even though it is on my juveniles to adult court can increase do that, and certainly this base bill own son, and I hope that it is the most juvenile crime. Now a 1996 study in does not touch that subject. important thing that has ever hap- Florida found that youth transferred to I come back to the fact that what- pened and life threatening in his life, adult prisons re-offended approxi- ever else is discussed out here, the sin- and I think it will make a change, mately 30 percent more frequently gle most important thing we are going talking to him, and I do not think he than youth who stayed in the juvenile to be doing in my judgment with re- will ever do it again. justice system. So if the goal is to spect to protecting our children, the But when we are talking about gun move more juveniles to adult prisons safety of our children on the streets legislation, there are things that are and it is to target violent offenders, and the schools and the playgrounds of reasonable. I made a statement once then studies prove that this has not this Nation and to prevent violence by that I used to fly an F–14. It would put worked. More juveniles are transferred youth, is the underlying proposition in out 3,000 rounds a minute. In a half a for nonviolent offenses than for violent 1501, the bill we are considering, that is second I could disintegrate this build- offenses, and that is exactly the wrong bipartisan, that everybody supports, ing, with a half-a-second burst, and I outcome. If we can see that at least that all the experts say we should pass, was trusted with that. I have never some of the nonviolent juvenile offend- and that is the grant program to the killed anybody outside of war, never ers can be rehabilitated, then placing States to help them improve broken ju- robbed a bank, never shot anybody, and more of them in adult prisons is stand- venile justice systems. They need the I want to protect the rights of people ing logic on its head. money for more probation officers, like myself that lawfully want to own In addition, holding juveniles in judges, diversion programs and so a handgun. adult facilities is dangerous. Children forth. They do not have it. And because I went to Mr. SCHUMER’s district, and in adult facilities are five times more they do not have those judges and pro- I understand why he hates guns. They likely to be sexually assaulted, twice bation officers in diversion programs have all the projects, and they shoot as likely to be beaten by staff and 50 we have got a lot of problems. We do

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00028 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 13104 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 not have kids that are receiving any authority to approve or establish labeling for every jurisdiction. Federally imposed strate- kind of consequence or accountability standards for all audio and video products. gies which limit the ability of local govern- for the most minor of crimes that they There may be constitutional problems with this ments to respond to community needs, ensure used to always receive some punish- amendment—problems that would have been that the war on crime is not fought with the ef- ment for. eliminated, I am sure, if the legislation had ficiency or effectiveness that is necessary to This bill will say to the States here proceeded under regular order. reduce the incidence of crime and attain the is money to hire more of these judges, In addition to the filtering and labeling safe environment our constituents seek. et cetera, if you just agree to one amendments, a number of amendments were I will continue to support legislation that rec- thing, and that is to punish from the made in order that call for studies and com- ognizes that states and localities are taking very first misdemeanor crime every ju- missions on a variety of society’s ills. None of the lead in implementing innovative solutions venile in this country, and if they these ideas has passed through my com- to local crime problems, and provides for cost agree in your state to do that and to mittee, which has the expertise to determine effective and proven initiatives. Such legisla- institute a system of graduated sanc- whether Federal tax dollars should be put to tion would enable local governments to ac- tions where we intensify for the more use for these purposes. complish what the federal government has lim- serious offense then you can have the As this legislation goes to conference with ited ability to do—reduce the rate and inci- money to improve the system. That is the other body, I will insist that my committee dence of juvenile crime. what everybody says will send a mes- be appointed conferees on provisions within The one thing that the federal government sage of consequences to kids so they do its jurisdiction. In conference, I will seek to en- can do is assist state and local governments not start down the path of believing sure that the Congress not only responds to in any way possible to make sure their solu- that when they do something bad noth- the public call for action, but also crafts sound tions are achievable, with programs that put ing is going to happen because the ex- public policy as well. police on the street and take the guns off the perts say when they get to believing Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, today’s problem street. I believe we have an obligation to do all that, then it is going to lead on to vio- of juvenile crime is so complex that it defies that is possible to make our communities safe. lent crime later very frequently and easy solutions. However, in the drive to in- This includes helping to get guns off the that is the root cause and one of the crease public safety and reduce juvenile streets and out of the hands of juveniles and most significant root causes of violent crime, several of the amendments offered to criminals. It is unfortunate that events such as crime in the Nation. this piece of legislation have lost sight, not the tragedy in Colorado had to occur in order So 1501, the underlying bill we are de- only of the complexity of the juvenile crime to spur congressional action, however the bating today, getting little attention problem, but also the success of existing local availability of assault weapons used by the because of all the other discussions enforcement agencies and community initia- students to inflict this violence and death upon after Littleton about guns and every- tives in keeping juveniles out of gangs and this community and many others must be cur- thing else, is by all experts I have crime free. tailed. talked to as chairman of the Sub- There are numerous policy choices that we With the combined efforts of federal, state, committee on Crime and heard from could implement to combat juvenile crime and and local governments we can successfully over the past few most, the single most delinquency if Congress chooses to provide combat juvenile delinquency and crime. important thing we can do to help our funds and help. We must continue to focus on Ms. STABENOW. Mr. Chairman, I rise today kids, to make sure there is child safety early intervention and prevention programs to express my support for the amendment of- and to make sure that we prevent vio- rather than ‘‘get tough’’ punitive measures that fered by Representative STUPAK and Rep- lent youth crime in the future. So I do little to reduce crime or address its root resentative WISE to H.R. 1501, ‘‘Child Safety strongly urge the adoption of this bill, causes. Our primary goal should be a and Protection Act.’’ This important amend- and I look forward to debating the proactive approach rather than reactionary ment builds on legislation which I introduced, amendments as they come out here. measures. H.R. 1898, which would authorize a national Mr. BLILEY. Mr. Chairman, I share the Given the alarming rate of crime and the hotline for reporting school violence. strong concerns of all my colleagues about the disproportionate amount committed by juve- While I offered my bill as an amendment to rise in youth violence, as evidenced by the niles, punitive provisions and ‘‘get tough’’ pro- H.R. 1501, it was not made in order. There- tragedy at Columbine High School recently. visions are widely attractive and politically ap- fore, I would like to express my strong support I am also concerned, however, that our re- pealing. Yet, such ‘‘get tough’’ measures fail to for this amendment. This important initiative action to such tragedies be appropriate and deliver the results promised by their pro- will provide tremendous support to our states measured. It seems to me that many of the ponents. Evidence points out that trials of ju- by authorizing them to develop and operate amendments that we are considering today veniles as adults actually result in repeat confidential toll-free telephone hotlines. These border on a knee-jerk reaction, designed more criminal behavior and activities. For example, hotlines will operate 24 hours a day, seven for political appeal than solid law-making. states with higher rates of transferring children days a week in order to provide students, A number of these amendments fall within to adult court do not have lower rates of juve- school officials and others the ability to report the jurisdiction of my committee but unfortu- nile homicide. Finally, children in adult institu- specific threats of imminent school violence or nately have not had the benefit of the normal tions are five times more likely to be sexually other suspicious or criminal conduct by juve- committee process and procedures. For in- assaulted, twice as likely to be beaten by staff, niles. These reports would be directed to the stance, I have concerns that the Franks/Pick- and 50 percent more likely to be attacked with state or local authorities to be addressed. Mr. ering amendment, which deals with Internet fil- a weapon that children in a juvenile facility. Speaker, with the recent school shootings we tering for schools and libraries, is being dealt Treating more children as adults in the crimi- must do everything we an to provide our with outside the jurisdiction of the Commerce nal justice system does not move us any clos- states the tools they need to handle school vi- Committee. The committee has been con- er to our common goal—it does not create olence. The amendment offered my col- ducting aggressive oversight of this program, safer communities. The consequence of such leagues from Michigan takes an important known as the E-rate program, and we intend action is surely not positive. step toward not only addressing violence in to continue that oversight. The committee has I think that Members on both sides of the our schools, but preventing it. By giving stu- also been involved in myriad issues related to aisle should agree with the common facts; that dents a direct line to report violence we have the growth and development of the Internet when it comes to addressing the unique public the opportunity to intervene before an act of and electronic commerce. I anticipate that the safety concerns of our districts, the programs violence occurs in our communities. committee will be addressing this issue of pro- and responses must be built on the unique sit- Mr. Chairman, I believe the best way to con- tecting children online later this Congress, with uations within our community. Different prob- front violence in our schools is to commit the the goal of creating sound, sensible, and ra- lems and populations require specific solu- resources we have available at the federal tional policy that protects children while recog- tions. Prescribing inflexible federal solutions level to our states and local communities. nizing the vast potential of the Internet in aid- does not resolve issues that are specific prob- There is no more important issue at stake ing education. lems of state or local jurisdictions. Local gov- than the welfare of our children. One way we Similarly, an amendment to be offered by ernments need more flexibility, not more fed- can ensure their safety is to provide states Mr. WAMP would grant the FTC expansive new eral mandates which imply the same solution with tools to confront violence in schools. This

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00029 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 9920 E:\BR99\H16JN9.000 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13105 hotline is important because it builds on exist- school he could be expelled from school im- ‘‘(5) providing funding to enable prosecu- ing programs and calls for partnerships be- mediately. If my daughter, Sarah, who is a tors to address drug, gang, and youth vio- tween state and local units of government. special-needs student, were to bring a gun lence problems more effectively and for tech- While it is unfortunate that I was not able to nology, equipment, and training to assist into school she could either be suspended for prosecutors in identifying and expediting the offer my amendment, I am grateful that this a short time or return back to her classroom. prosecution of violent juvenile offenders; important program was adopted as part of But at home, there is only one set of rules for ‘‘(6) establishing and maintaining training H.R. 1501. both of my children. If Sarah and Mark get into programs for law enforcement and other Education is the key to a productive future a fight, they both receive the same punish- court personnel with respect to preventing for our children. We need to make sure our ment. What I am trying to teach my kids at and controlling juvenile crime; schools are safe so that our children have the home is being contradicted with how they are ‘‘(7) establishing juvenile gun courts for skills they need to succeed in the competitive treated at school. A two-track discipline sys- the prosecution and adjudication of juvenile global economy of the 21st century, and I be- firearms offenders; tem does not work at home—and it does not ‘‘(8) establishing drug court programs for lieve that this initiative will move us toward this work at school either. juvenile offenders that provide continuing goal. I offer this amendment with my colleagues judicial supervision over juvenile offenders Mr. BARCIA. Mr. Chairman, today’s children because it will allow state and local education with substance abuse problems and the inte- face more obstacles and danger than ever be- officials to establish uniform discipline policies grated administration of other sanctions and fore. Often children are singled out by adult that will apply to all students who bring weap- services for such offenders; predators because they are weak and unable ons to school. This amendment will give ‘‘(9) establishing and maintaining a system to defend themselves. We owe it to our chil- school officials the freedom to protect the of juvenile records designed to promote pub- dren to do all we can to protect them. safety of every student in their charge without lic safety; That is why I strongly support the ‘‘(10) establishing and maintaining inter- interference from the federal government. agency information-sharing programs that Cunningham amendment, which will amend We must amend the burdensome, bureau- enable the juvenile and criminal justice sys- federal sentencing guidelines to increase the cratic control over our local school agencies. tem, schools, and social services agencies to penalties for those violent offenders who com- We must allow school officials to establish dis- make more informed decisions regarding the mit crimes against children. Additionally, the ciplinary procedures and consequences that early identification, control, supervision, amendment will help local law enforcement to would best meet their individual needs. And, and treatment of juveniles who repeatedly catch and convict criminals by authorizing the most importantly, we must provide all students commit serious delinquent or criminal acts; Federal Bureau of Investigation to assist local with the right to learn in a safe education envi- ‘‘(11) establishing and maintaining ac- and state authorities in murder investigations ronment. countability-based programs designed to re- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. All duce recidivism among juveniles who are re- involving children. Matthew’s Law, named after ferred by law enforcement personnel or agen- a little boy who was brutally murdered in Cali- time for general debate has expired. cies. fornia, sends a strong message to those who Pursuant to the rule, the bill is con- ‘‘(12) establishing and maintaining pro- prey on innocent children. It sends a message sidered read for amendment under the grams to conduct risk and need assessments that we will not tolerate crimes of violence 5-minute rule. of juvenile offenders that facilitate the effec- against children and predators who prey on The text of H.R. 1501 is as follows: tive early intervention and the provision of those innocent victims deserve severe punish- H.R. 1501 comprehensive services, including mental ment. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Rep- health screening and treatment and sub- stance abuse testing and treatment to such In combination with the truth in sentencing resentatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, offenders; and resolutions that have passed this House, this ‘‘(13) establishing and maintaining ac- SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. amendment will keep violent offenders away countability-based programs that are de- This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Con- from our children. It makes our streets safer. signed to enhance school safety. sequences for Juvenile Offenders Act of It makes our neighborhoods safer and most 1999’’. ‘‘SEC. 1802. GRANT ELIGIBILITY. importantly, it makes our children safer. ‘‘(a) STATE ELIGIBILITY.—To be eligible to SEC. 2. GRANT PROGRAM. receive a grant under this section, a State Mr. NUSSLE. Mr. Chairman, all American (a) IN GENERAL.—Part R of title I of the shall submit to the Attorney General an ap- children have the right to receive a quality Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act plication at such time, in such form, and education in a safe learning environment. of 1968 (42 U.S.C. 3796 et seq.) is amended to containing such assurances and information read as follows: Teachers and principals should be given the as the Attorney General may require by rule, tools needed to provide their students with ‘‘PART R—JUVENILE ACCOUNTABILITY including assurances that the State and any that quality education and safe learning envi- BLOCK GRANTS unit of local government to which the State ronment. Unfortunately, federal regulations are ‘‘SEC. 1801. PROGRAM AUTHORIZED. provides funding under section 1803(b), has in standing in the way of allowing education offi- ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—The Attorney General is effect (or shall have in effect, not later than cials in our communities from doing just that. authorized to provide grants to States, for 1 year after the date that the State submits Under current discipline provisions in the In- use by States and units of local government, such application) laws, or has implemented dividuals with Disabilities Education Act and in certain cases directly to specially (or shall implement, not later than 1 year qualified units. after the date that the State submits such (IDEA), a special-needs student who is in pos- ‘‘(b) AUTHORIZED ACTIVITIES.—Amounts application) policies and programs, that pro- session of a weapon at school may only be paid to a State or a unit of local government vide for a system of graduated sanctions de- suspended for up to 10 days or be placed in under this part shall be used by the State or scribed in subsection (c). an alternative education setting for up to 45 unit of local government for the purpose of ‘‘(b) LOCAL ELIGIBILITY.— days. If the student’s behavior is determined strengthening the juvenile justice system, ‘‘(1) SUBGRANT ELIGIBILITY.—To be eligible to be a direct result of his or her disability, the which includes— to receive a subgrant, a unit of local govern- student could return to school immediately. ‘‘(1) developing, implementing, and admin- ment, other than a specially qualified unit, Over the past year and a half, I have been istering graduated sanctions for juvenile of- shall provide such assurances to the State as fenders; the State shall require, that, to the max- meeting with school administrators, principals, ‘‘(2) building, expanding, renovating, or op- imum extent applicable, the unit of local and teachers throughout Iowa’s 2nd District to erating temporary or permanent juvenile government has in effect (or shall have in ef- discuss this problem. Time and time again, correction, detention, or community correc- fect, not later than 1 year after the date that they have told me how difficult it is to provide tions facilities; the unit submits such application) laws, or a safe learning environment for their students ‘‘(3) hiring juvenile court judges, probation has implemented (or shall implement, not because of the two separate discipline codes officers, and court-appointed defenders and later than 1 year after the date that the unit they must live under—one for the main-stream special advocates, and funding pretrial serv- submits such application) policies and pro- students and one for the special-needs stu- ices for juvenile offenders, to promote the ef- grams, that provide for a system of grad- fective and expeditious administration of the uated sanctions described in subsection (c). dents. Together, we worked to write the Free- juvenile justice system; ‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULE.—The requirements of dom to Learn Act which is very similar to this ‘‘(4) hiring additional prosecutors, so that paragraph (1) shall apply to a specially quali- amendment we are discussing. more cases involving violent juvenile offend- fied unit that receives funds from the Attor- For instance, if my son, Mark, who is a ers can be prosecuted and case backlogs re- ney General under section 1803(e), except main-stream student, were to bring a gun into duced; that information that is otherwise required

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00030 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13106 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 to be submitted to the State shall be sub- to the amount of remaining funds described ‘‘(1) investigate the methodology used by mitted to the Attorney General. in this subparagraph as the population of the unit to determine the accuracy of the ‘‘(c) GRADUATED SANCTIONS.—A system of people under the age of 18 living in such submitted data; and graduated sanctions, which may be discre- State for the most recent calendar year in ‘‘(2) if necessary, use the best available tionary as provided in subsection (d), shall which such data is available bears to the comparable data regarding the number of ensure, at a minimum, that— population of people under the age of 18 of all violent crimes or law enforcement expendi- ‘‘(1) sanctions are imposed on juvenile of- the States for such fiscal year. tures for the relevant years for the unit of fenders for every offense; ‘‘(2) PROHIBITION.—No funds allocated to a local government. ‘‘(2) sanctions escalate in intensity with State under this subsection or received by a ‘‘(d) LOCAL GOVERNMENT WITH ALLOCATIONS each subsequent, more serious delinquent or State for distribution under subsection (b) LESS THAN $5,000.—If under this section a criminal offense; may be distributed by the Attorney General unit of local government is allocated less ‘‘(3) there is sufficient flexibility to allow or by the State involved for any program than $5,000 for a payment period, the amount for individualized sanctions and services other than a program contained in an ap- allotted shall be expended by the State on suited to the individual juvenile offender; proved application. services to units of local government whose and ‘‘(3) INCREASE FOR STATE RESERVE.— allotment is less than such amount in a ‘‘(4) appropriate consideration is given to ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Subject to subparagraph manner consistent with this part. ‘‘(e) DIRECT GRANTS TO SPECIALLY QUALI- public safety and victims of crime. (B), if a State demonstrates and certifies to FIED UNITS.— ‘‘(d) DISCRETIONARY USE OF SANCTIONS.— the Attorney General that the State’s law ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—If a State does not qual- ‘‘(1) VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION.—A State or enforcement expenditures in the fiscal year ify or apply for funds reserved for allocation unit of local government may be eligible to preceding the date in which an application is under subsection (a) by the application dead- receive a grant under this part if— submitted under this part is more than 25 line established by the Attorney General, the ‘‘(A) its system of graduated sanctions is percent of the aggregate amount of law en- Attorney General shall reserve not more discretionary; and forcement expenditures by the State and its than 75 percent of the allocation that the ‘‘(B) it demonstrates that it has promoted eligible units of local government, the per- State would have received under subsection the use of a system of graduated sanctions centage referred to in paragraph (1)(A) shall (a) for such fiscal year to provide grants to by taking steps to encourage implementa- equal the percentage determined by dividing specially qualified units which meet the re- tion of such a system by juvenile courts. the State’s law enforcement expenditures by quirements for funding under section 1802. ‘‘(2) REPORTING REQUIREMENT IF GRADUATED such aggregate. ‘‘(2) AWARD BASIS.—In addition to the qual- SANCTIONS NOT USED.— ‘‘(B) LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPENDITURES OVER ification requirements for direct grants for ‘‘(A) JUVENILE COURTS.—A State or unit of 50 PERCENT.—If the law enforcement expendi- specially qualified units the Attorney Gen- local government in which the imposition of tures of a State exceed 50 percent of the ag- eral may use the average amount allocated graduated sanctions is discretionary shall re- gregate amount described in subparagraph by the States to units of local government as quire each juvenile court within its jurisdic- (A), the Attorney General shall consult with a basis for awarding grants under this sec- tion— as many units of local government in such tion. ‘‘(i) which has not implemented a system State as practicable regarding the State’s ‘‘SEC. 1804. REGULATIONS. of graduated sanctions, to submit an annual proposed uses of funds. ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—The Attorney General report that explains why such court did not ‘‘(b) LOCAL DISTRIBUTION.— shall issue regulations establishing proce- implement graduated sanctions; and ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in dures under which a State or unit of local ‘‘(ii) which has implemented a system of subsection (a)(3), each State which receives government that receives funds under sec- graduated sanctions but has not imposed funds under subsection (a)(1) in a fiscal year tion 1803 is required to provide notice to the graduated sanctions in 1 or more specific shall distribute not less than 75 percent of Attorney General regarding the proposed use cases, to submit an annual report that ex- such amounts received among units of local of funds made available under this part. plains why such court did not impose grad- government, for the purposes specified in ‘‘(b) ADVISORY BOARD.—The regulations re- uated sanctions in each such case. section 1801. In making such distribution the ferred to in subsection (a) shall include a re- ‘‘(B) UNITS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT.—Each State shall allocate to such units of local quirement that such eligible State or unit of unit of local government, other than a spe- government an amount which bears the same local government establish and convene an cially qualified unit, that has 1 or more juve- ratio to the aggregate amount of such funds advisory board to review the proposed uses of nile courts that use a discretionary system as— such funds. The board shall include represen- of graduated sanctions shall collect the in- ‘‘(A) the sum of— tation from, if appropriate— formation reported under subparagraph (A) ‘‘(i) the product of— ‘‘(1) the State or local police department; for submission to the State each year. ‘‘(I) three-quarters; multiplied by ‘‘(2) the local sheriff’s department; ‘‘(C) STATES.—Each State and specially ‘‘(II) the average law enforcement expendi- ‘‘(3) the State or local prosecutor’s office; qualified unit that has 1 or more juvenile ture for such unit of local government for ‘‘(4) the State or local juvenile court; courts that use a discretionary system of the 3 most recent calendar years for which ‘‘(5) the State or local probation officer; graduated sanctions shall collect the infor- such data is available; plus ‘‘(6) the State or local educational agency; mation reported under subparagraph (A) for ‘‘(ii) the product of— ‘‘(7) a State or local social service agency; submission to the Attorney General each ‘‘(I) one-quarter; multiplied by and year. A State shall also collect and submit ‘‘(II) the average annual number of part 1 ‘‘(8) a nonprofit, religious, or community to the Attorney General the information col- violent crimes in such unit of local govern- group. lected under subparagraph (B). ment for the 3 most recent calendar years for ‘‘SEC. 1805. PAYMENT REQUIREMENTS. ‘‘(e) DEFINITIONS.—For purposes of this sec- which such data is available, bears to— ‘‘(a) TIMING OF PAYMENTS.—The Attorney tion: ‘‘(B) the sum of the products determined General shall pay to each State or unit of ‘‘(1) The term ‘discretionary’ means that a under subparagraph (A) for all such units of local government that receives funds under system of graduated sanctions is not re- local government in the State. section 1803 that has submitted an applica- quired to be imposed by each and every juve- tion under this part not later than— ‘‘(2) EXPENDITURES.—The allocation any nile court in a State or unit of local govern- unit of local government shall receive under ‘‘(1) 90 days after the date that the amount ment. paragraph (1) for a payment period shall not is available, or ‘‘(2) The term ‘sanctions’ means tangible, exceed 100 percent of law enforcement ex- ‘‘(2) the first day of the payment period if proportional consequences that hold the ju- penditures of the unit for such payment pe- the State has provided the Attorney General venile offender accountable for the offense riod. with the assurances required by subsection committed. A sanction may include coun- (c), ‘‘(3) REALLOCATION.—The amount of any seling, restitution, community service, a unit of local government’s allocation that is whichever is later. fine, supervised probation, or confinement. not available to such unit by operation of ‘‘(b) REPAYMENT OF UNEXPENDED ‘‘SEC. 1803. ALLOCATION AND DISTRIBUTION OF paragraph (2) shall be available to other AMOUNTS.— FUNDS. units of local government that are not af- ‘‘(1) REPAYMENT REQUIRED.—From amounts ‘‘(a) STATE ALLOCATION.— fected by such operation in accordance with awarded under this part, a State or specially ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—In accordance with regu- this subsection. qualified unit shall repay to the Attorney lations promulgated pursuant to this part General, or a unit of local government shall and except as provided in paragraph (3), the ‘‘(c) UNAVAILABILITY OF DATA FOR UNITS OF repay to the State by not later than 27 Attorney General shall allocate— LOCAL GOVERNMENT.—If the State has reason months after receipt of funds from the Attor- ‘‘(A) 0.25 percent for each State; and to believe that the reported rate of part 1 ney General, any amount that is not ex- ‘‘(B) of the total funds remaining after the violent crimes or law enforcement expendi- pended by the State within 2 years after re- allocation under subparagraph (A), to each tures for a unit of local government is insuf- ceipt of such funds from the Attorney Gen- State, an amount which bears the same ratio ficient or inaccurate, the State shall— eral.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13107 ‘‘(2) PENALTY FOR FAILURE TO REPAY.—If percent of the amounts allocated shall be al- ation of any amendment printed in the amount required to be repaid is not re- located to American Samoa, 50 percent to part A of the report out of the order paid, the Attorney General shall reduce pay- Guam, and 17 percent to the Northern Mar- printed, but not sooner than 1 hour ment in future payment periods accordingly. iana Islands. after the Chairman of the Committee ‘‘(3) DEPOSIT OF AMOUNTS REPAID.— ‘‘(4) The term ‘juvenile’ means an indi- Amounts received by the Attorney General vidual who is 17 years of age or younger. on the Judiciary or a designee an- as repayments under this subsection shall be ‘‘(5) The term ‘law enforcement expendi- nounces from the floor a request to deposited in a designated fund for future tures’ means the expenditures associated that effect. payments to States and specially qualified with prosecutorial, legal, and judicial serv- The Chairman of the Committee of units. ices, and corrections as reported to the Bu- the Whole may postpone a request for a ‘‘(c) ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.—A State or reau of the Census for the fiscal year pre- recorded vote on any amendment and unit of local government that receives funds ceding the fiscal year for which a determina- may reduce to a minimum of 5 minutes under this part may use not more than 5 per- tion is made under this part. the time for voting on any postponed cent of such funds to pay for administrative ‘‘(6) The term ‘part 1 violent crimes’ means costs. murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, question that immediately follows an- ‘‘(d) NONSUPPLANTING REQUIREMENT.— forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated as- other vote, provided that the time for Funds made available under this part to sault as reported to the Federal Bureau of voting on the first question shall be a States and units of local government shall Investigation for purposes of the Uniform minimum of 15 minutes. not be used to supplant State or local funds Crime Reports. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, pur- as the case may be, but shall be used to in- ‘‘SEC. 1809. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIA- suant to the rule you have just out- crease the amount of funds that would, in TIONS. lined for us, I hereby give 1 hour’s no- the absence of funds made available under ‘‘(a) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.— tice of my request to consider the this part, be made available from State or There are authorized to be appropriated to local sources, as the case may be. carry out this part— amendment No. 31, the Hyde amend- ‘‘(e) MATCHING FUNDS.—The Federal share ‘‘(1) $500,000,000 for fiscal year 2000; ment, out of order, immediately after of a grant received under this part may not ‘‘(2) $500,000,000 for fiscal year 2001; and consideration of the McCollum amend- exceed 90 percent of the costs of a program ‘‘(3) $500,000,000 for fiscal year 2002. ment No. 6, and any amendments or proposal funded under this part. ‘‘(b) OVERSIGHT ACCOUNTABILITY AND AD- thereto. ‘‘SEC. 1806. UTILIZATION OF PRIVATE SECTOR. MINISTRATION.—Not more than 3 percent of The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to ‘‘Funds or a portion of funds allocated the amount authorized to be appropriated consider amendment No. 1 printed in under subsection (a), with such amounts to under this part may be utilized to contract part A of House report 106–186. with private, nonprofit entities, or commu- remain available until expended, for each of nity-based organizations to carry out the the fiscal years 2000 through 2002 shall be AMENDMENT NO. 1 OFFERED BY MR. KUCINICH purposes specified under section 1801(a)(2). available to the Attorney General for evalua- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I offer ‘‘SEC. 1807. ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS. tion and research regarding the overall effec- an amendment. ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—A State or specially tiveness and efficiency of the provisions of The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- qualified unit that receives funds under this this part, assuring compliance with the pro- ignate the amendment. part shall— visions of this part, and for administrative The text of the amendment is as fol- costs to carry out the purposes of this part. ‘‘(1) establish a trust fund in which the lows: government will deposit all payments re- The Attorney General shall establish and Part A amendment No. 1 offered by Mr. ceived under this part; execute an oversight plan for monitoring the KUCINICH: ‘‘(2) use amounts in the trust fund (includ- activities of grant recipients. ‘‘(c) FUNDING SOURCE.—Appropriations for Page 3, strike lines 23 and 24, and insert ing interest) during a period not to exceed 2 activities authorized in this part may be the following: years from the date the first grant payment made from the Violent Crime Reduction ‘‘(9) establishing and maintaining an auto- is made to the State or specially qualified Trust Fund.’’. mated system of records relating to any ad- unit; (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENTS.—The table of judication of juveniles less than 18 years of ‘‘(3) designate an official of the State or contents of title I of the Omnibus Crime Con- age who are adjudicated delinquent for con- specially qualified unit to submit reports as trol and Safe Streets Act of 1968 is amended duct that would be a violent crime if com- the Attorney General reasonably requires, in by striking the item relating to part R and mitted by an adult, that— addition to the annual reports required inserting the following: ‘‘(A) is equivalent to the system of records under this part; and that would be kept of adults arrested for ‘‘(4) spend the funds only for the purposes ‘‘PART R—JUVENILE ACCOUNTABILITY BLOCK such conduct, including fingerprint records under section 1801(b). GRANTS and photograph records; ‘‘(b) TITLE I PROVISIONS.—Except as other- ‘‘Sec. 1801. Program authorized. ‘‘(B) provides for submitting such juvenile wise provided, the administrative provisions ‘‘Sec. 1802. Grant eligibility. records to the Federal Bureau of Investiga- of part H shall apply to this part and for pur- ‘‘Sec. 1803. Allocation and distribution of tion in the same manner as adult criminal poses of this section any reference in such funds. ‘‘Sec. 1804. Regulations. records are so submitted; provisions to title I shall be deemed to in- ‘‘Sec. 1805. Payment requirements. ‘‘(C) requires the retention of juvenile clude a reference to this part. ‘‘Sec. 1806. Utilization of private sector. records for a period of time that is equal to ‘‘SEC. 1808. DEFINITIONS. ‘‘Sec. 1807. Administrative provisions. the period of time for which adult criminal ‘‘For purposes of this part: ‘‘Sec. 1808. Definitions. records are retained; and ‘‘Sec. 1809. Authorization of appropria- ‘‘(1) The term ‘unit of local government’ ‘‘(D) makes available, on an expedited tions.’’. means— basis, to law enforcement agencies, to ‘‘(A) a county, township, city, or political The CHAIRMAN. No amendment is in courts, and to school officials who shall be subdivision of a county, township, or city, order except those printed in part A of subject to the same standards and penalties that is a unit of local government as deter- House Report 106–186. Except as other- that apply under Federal and State law to mined by the Secretary of Commerce for wise specified in House Resolution 209, law enforcement and juvenile justice per- general statistical purposes; and sonnel with respect to handling such records ‘‘(B) the District of Columbia and the rec- each amendment may be offered only in the order printed in part A of the re- and disclosing information contained in such ognized governing body of an Indian tribe or records; Alaskan Native village that carries out sub- port, may be offered only by a Member stantial governmental duties and powers. designated in the report, shall be con- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House ‘‘(2) The term ‘specially qualified unit’ sidered read, debatable for the time resolution 209, the gentleman from means a unit of local government which may specified in the report, equally divided Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) and a Member op- receive funds under this part only in accord- and controlled by the proponent and an posed each will control 5 minutes. ance with section 1803(e). opponent, shall not be subject to The Chair recognizes the gentleman ‘‘(3) The term ‘State’ means any State of from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH). the United States, the District of Columbia, amendment except as specified in the report and shall not be subject to a de- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I yield the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Vir- myself such time as I may consume. gin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the mand for division on the question. I wish to offer an amendment to this Northern Mariana Islands, except that Amer- b 1330 ican Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Mar- bill that would assist States in com- iana Islands shall be considered as 1 State The Chairman of the Committee of piling the records of juveniles and es- and that, for purposes of section 1803(a), 33 the Whole may recognize for consider- tablishing statewide computer systems

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13108 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 for their records. In addition, States statewide systems with the records of vio- are concerned with here and then goes would have the option of making these lent juvenile offenders with the option to into detail, very similar to what was in records available to the NCIC at the make this data available to the Federal Bu- legislation that I authored in the last FBI where they would be accessed by reau of Investigation and law enforcement Congress on this subject matter and authorities in other States. law enforcement officials from other The ability to share and obtain informa- did not include in this particular bill, States. Similar language for such a tion about criminals’ records is critical to H.R. 1501, as a specific provision in that system of records already exists in the the law enforcement mission. Your legisla- much detail because I thought the gen- Senate-passed juvenile justice bill. tion addresses the pressing need for better eral language covered it. The reason I offer this amendment is and more efficient recordkeeping on violent Mr. Chairman, I really believe that a tragic story from my own district. A juveniles—information which could stop the gentleman is doing a service to put Cleveland police detective, Robert crimes and save lives. this specific language in. I think this is Clark, was killed in July 1998 while at- On 1 July 1998, Detective Robert Clark of a good amendment because it does out- the Cleveland Police Department and Correy tempting to arrest a drug dealer. The Major, a 19-year-old from Florida were killed line these details, and does spell out individual who shot Detective Clark in a gun battle. Major was first arrested at that which the rules would be, and we had accumulated a considerable crimi- the age of eight. By the time he was killed will not have any questions about it nal record between Ohio and Florida. last July, he had amassed over one hundred after that, I believe. Although he was only 19 years old at and fifty prior incidents with police on his So it is again in furtherance of a bi- the time of the shooting, he had been record. Major was arrested on yet another of- partisan bill that throughout this has arrested 150 times since the age of 8. fense the night before he killed Detective been that way. There had been 62 felony charges laid Clark, but because law enforcement officers Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance in Cleveland, Ohio were unaware of his ex- against him between 1995 and 1998. of my time. tensive criminal record as a juvenile in Flor- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I want However, officials in Ohio were un- ida, he was released from custody. Because aware of his criminal activities in Ohio and Florida were unable to share infor- to thank the gentleman from Florida Florida, and vice versa. In addition, mation about this dangerous and violent (Mr. MCCOLLUM) for his kind remarks there was an outstanding warrant for criminal, only hours later a brave and dedi- regarding this amendment. It seeks to this individual’s arrest in Florida at cated officer was dead. build on the intentions that he had in the time of the shooting. Had an auto- I commend you for your leadership on this the last Congress, and I certainly ap- important issue on behalf of the membership mated records system been in place preciate his support and the support of of the Fraternal Order of Police. If I can be all of my colleagues on this. when he first appeared before a juve- of any further help, please do not hesitate to nile court in Ohio, law enforcement of- Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- contact me or Executive Director Jim Pasco ance of my time. ficials in Ohio would have had access to through my Washington office at (202) 547– Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I this extensive criminal record in Flor- 8189. yield back the balance of my time. ida. Sincerely, The CHAIRMAN. The question is on I remain a strong supporter of civil GILBERT G. GALLEGOS, the amendment offered by the gen- liberties for all citizens. Therefore, it National President. tleman from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH). is important that access to these Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time. The amendment was agreed to. records be strictly controlled to main- The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I do tain the privacy rights of every citizen. consider amendment No. 2 printed in not oppose the amendment; however, I In addition, States should not be man- part A of House Report 106–186. dated to share juvenile records infor- ask unanimous consent to take the 5 minutes if no Member is opposing it. AMENDMENT NO. 2 OFFERED BY MR. HUTCHINSON mation with the FBI. Rather, they Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I would have the option of sharing their The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman from offer an amendment. juvenile records information should The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- they choose. Florida? There was no objection. ignate the amendment. My amendment has received the en- The text of the amendment is as fol- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman dorsement of the Fraternal Order of lows: Police in which they say, ‘‘The ability from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) is recog- nized for 5 minutes. Part A amendment No. 2 offered by Mr. to share and obtain information about HUTCHINSON: criminals’ records is crucial to the law Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I Page 4, after line 21, insert the following: enforcement mission. This legislation yield myself such time as I may con- (14) establishing and maintaining restora- addresses the pressing need for better sume. tive justice programs. and more efficient recordkeeping on Mr. Chairman, I simply want to sup- (c) DEFINITION.—For purposes of this sec- port the amendment of the gentleman tion, the term ‘‘restorative justice program’’ violent juveniles, information that means a program that emphasizes the moral from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) and take the would stop crimes and save lives.’’ accountability of an offender toward the vic- Mr. Speaker, at this time I will in- time to say what it really does in my tim and the affected community, and may clude the above-referenced letter for view, which is a very positive thing. It include community reparations boards, res- the RECORD. takes one of the conditions of use of titution, and mediation between victim and FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE, the money in grant program for these offender,’’ Washington, DC, June 15, 1999. improvements of the juvenile justice The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Hon. DENNIS KUCINICH, system, which are very broadly writ- resolution 209, the gentleman from Ar- House of Representatives, Washington, DC. ten; there are 13 of them in the bill, kansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) and a Member DEAR CONGRESSMAN KUCINICH: I am writing and it very specifically tailors that one opposed each will control 5 minutes. on behalf of the more than 277,000 members use which has to do with having juve- of the Fraternal Order of Police to advise The Chair recognizes the gentleman you of our strong support for your amend- nile records available by saying that from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON). ment to H.R. 1501, the ‘‘Consequences for Ju- not only do we establish and maintain Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I venile Offenders Act of 1999.’’ Your amend- those juvenile records in the case of yield myself such time as I may con- ment will enable law enforcement officials to public safety, but that we have an sume. improve record-keeping and record-sharing automated system of records that we Mr. Chairman, my amendment adds a on juvenile offenders. establish and maintain for juveniles new category of permissive uses for the Your bill would enable States to apply for less than 18 years of age or who are ad- grant money authorized under the ju- Federal grants to establish, develop, update judicated delinquent for conduct that venile accountability block grants in or upgrade State and local criminal history record systems to include the conviction would be a violent crime if committed H.R. 1501. This new authority will records of violent juveniles. These grants by an adult. allow States and localities to use funds will assist State and local law enforcement In other words, the gentleman from in the bill to implement restorative authorities in compiling and computerizing Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) spells out what we justice programs.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00033 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13109 Restorative justice is a concept that an offender toward the victim and the to ensure that our youth have the re- incorporates the community, the vic- affected community. sources to deal with the challenges tim, and the offender in the restitution Mr. Chairman, I think this is very they face. Whether they find strength and rehabilitation process. Programs significant. I think that it is a good in their families, in their church, or in in existence today include local com- clarification of the broad-based nature their teachers or simply in themselves, munity reparation boards, offender res- of what we are proposing in that there young people need to be able to face titution programs, and victim-offender are lot of things, as long as it is within the rejection, the volatility and pres- mediation. This new authorized use of the juvenile justice system of a State, sures that can accompany adolescence. funds will provide judges with an im- that one can use this grant money for. Time and again, I have heard from portant tool to hold juveniles account- So I commend the gentleman for offer- people in my district that the best way able for their wrongdoing. ing it and I urge its adoption. to deal with juvenile delinquency is to Mr. Chairman, I believe it is impor- Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I prevent it from happening in the first tant not only to hold juveniles ac- thank the gentleman, and I reserve the place. The boys and girls club, after countable to the State for their wrong- balance of my time. school activities, sports programs, doing, but also to their victims. Res- Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I ask mentoring and programs like Outward titution programs and mediation pro- unanimous consent to claim the time Bound have all proven effective in grams emphasize the responsibility of in opposition, although I do not oppose keeping kids out of trouble. They help the offender, in this case the juvenile, the amendment. youth to build the skills they need and to those he or she has wronged. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection provide caring, nurtured environments The Senate-passed juvenile crime bill to the request of the gentlewoman for children to spend their time in. includes similar language, but does not from Colorado? We have all heard the adage that an define the term ‘‘restorative justice.’’ There was no objection. ounce of prevention is worth a pound of So my amendment improves upon the The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman cure, and when it comes to dealing Senate approach by defining restora- from Colorado (Ms. DEGETTE) is recog- with our youth, I do not believe that tive justice to mean a program that nized for 5 minutes. any phrase could be more true. I com- emphasizes the moral accountability of Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I yield mend the committee for focusing on an offender toward the victim and the 5 minutes to the gentleman from Maine prevention in the underlying legisla- affected community. I might add, Mr. (Mr. BALDACCI). tion, and I urge my colleagues not to Chairman, that the American Bar As- Mr. BALDACCI. Mr. Chairman, I lose that focus as we go through the sociation has previously adopted a res- would like to thank the gentlewoman amendment process. olution recommending that the govern- from Colorado for yielding me this Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Chairman, as I ment look into these types of victim- time. I am not in opposition to the stated, we have no objection to this offender mediation programs in the amendment that has been offered, but amendment. We thank the gentleman criminal justice system and possibly because of the constraints that have for raising it. incorporating them. been presented, it will allow us an op- Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- An example of this also would be portunity to be able to speak in re- ance of my time. Marty Price, who mediated a session gards to this issue at this time. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I between juvenile offenders who had I do support the efforts of the gen- yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman thrown rocks from an overpass and ac- tleman from Arkansas in trying to cre- from Oregon (Ms. HOOLEY), who has tually caused physical harm, but also ate this opportunity for restorative been very supportive of this effort. some personal injuries. That was medi- justice, and I would look to support it. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ated, the victims participated in it, But at this time also, on the larger from Arkansas has 1 minute remaining. there was not any recidivism. The juve- issue, I wanted to point out that there Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I niles learned from that experience, and are no easy answers to the problems of ask unanimous consent that the gen- the victims were happy as well. I will youth violence. Tightening gun laws, tlewoman be given 2 minutes. not go into all the details of this, but providing increased mental health The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would in- it is something that really works. counseling to youth and placing re- form the gentleman that under the Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gentle- newed emphasis on family values may rule, such a request cannot be granted woman from Colorado (Ms. DEGETTE). all be part of the solution, but no one by the Committee of the Whole. Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Chairman, we of these steps alone will be enough. I Does the gentleman seek to yield 1 have no objection to this amendment. think a few guiding principles are in minute to the gentlewoman from Or- However, I would like to yield when it order. egon? is appropriate to the gentleman from First, increased communication must Mr. HUTCHINSON. Yes, I would like Maine (Mr. BALDACCI). be a focus. Students need to be able to to do that, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I report incidences or rumors that con- The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman yield to the gentleman from Florida cern them. Education and law enforce- from Oregon is recognized for 1 minute. (Mr. MCCOLLUM). ment officials need to be able to share Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon. Mr. Chair- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I information about troubled or trouble- man, I rise in support of the gentle- thank the gentleman for yielding. I some youth, and parents need to be man’s amendment. just want to rise in support of this able to talk to their kids and children This amendment stresses that juve- amendment. It establishes a new cri- and friends of teachers and teachers niles must be held accountable for teria under the uses for the grant mon- themselves. their actions and allows communities ies in this bill. It is the 14th one. We Second, we must start thinking and to engage in innovative and nontradi- just talked about amending one of the acting like families and communities, tional ways of holding juveniles ac- earlier ones in the list of 13. This 14th rather than solely as individuals. I countable. one is in no way restrictive and actu- think in some of the cases we have lost Too often our juvenile system pro- ally adds to the opportunity for the sight of the common good and we need vides delayed accountability to our local authorities and States to be able to regain that. Third, we must take people by not acting for 2 or 3 months, to improve their juvenile justice sys- prudent steps to ensure that guns are or by not acting until after a person tems. As the gentleman so eloquently not in the hands of our youth. While we has committed a second or third or explained, it does so by establishing must maintain a careful balance, I do even fourth violation. and maintaining restorative justice believe that some modest further regu- Accountability programs have been programs, and the gentleman has de- lation may be in order. enormously successful in my district in fined those to mean a program that Finally, and perhaps most impor- Oregon. In Clackamas County, the emphasizes the moral accountability of tantly, we need to take increased steps local juvenile authorities have been

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00034 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13110 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 working with nonviolent first- and sec- Angeles County. They have spent a Just yesterday a young man from ond-time juvenile offenders to come up great deal of time looking for creative, Winkelman, Arizona, there on the with punishments that do not justify, locally-based solutions to what obvi- Pinal-Gila county line came to see me. fit the crime, but fit the offender. ously is a very serious problem. He spoke of incredible activities in his County officials assess and evaluate I hope very much my colleagues will rural community, concentrations of the offender and work with parents, join in strong support of this effort. gangs, concentrations of drug activity. local police, and school officials to Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he That was followed up with a visit from come up with proper sanctions, treat- may consume to the gentleman from another rural county by a narcotics of- ment, and an immediate consequence Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM), distinguished ficer saying the same thing. to that offense, so that the offender un- chairman of the Subcommittee on What we are doing in this amend- derstands that there is a connection. Crime. ment is allowing local law enforcement As a result, juveniles are often required Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I agencies to use some of the $1.5 billion to provide restitution, to meet with thank the gentleman for yielding time in Federal assistance that is set aside their victims and provide service to the to me. I want to support this amend- over the next 3 years to help combat community. ment. I compliment the gentleman on juvenile crime. it. As my friend, the distinguished sub- b 1345 Mr. Chairman, I want to assure ev- committee chairman from Florida just Providing these types of immediate erybody, from what I understand from pointed out, this allows a portion of sanctions have been so successful in the discussions and from reading the those proceeds to go to anti-gang ac- amendment, the gentleman is adding my district. This is the kind of pro- tivities which are so essential to com- to already existing number 11.1 for the gram this would fund, and I would sup- batting youth violence, so essential to conditions for the use of the money, port this amendment. combatting the scourge of drugs, and and in that process, all the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. The question is on so essential to rural law enforcement, is doing is saying if a kid comes in con- the amendment offered by the gen- where we have seen the incredible rise tact, a juvenile, with some portion of tleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- of gangs along the interstates now in the system, in this case, the law en- INSON). Arizona, even going into what we forcement portion, before the judge The amendment was agreed to. would consider more pastoral and plac- ever sees the case, and it is one of these The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to id scenes. There crime is rising, gang anti-gang programs or whatever, they consider amendment No. 3 printed in activity is up. Part A of House Report 106–186. can receive some of this money. This amendment allows flexibility, That is part of the system, by defini- AMENDMENT NO. 3 OFFERED BY MR. DREIER and the underlying principle is this: tion. I assure the gentleman it is. Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, I offer Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, will the That those closest to the problem, an amendment. gentleman yield? those who have to fight the problem, The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- Mr. MCCOLLUM. I yield to the gen- should be given maximum flexibility to ignate the amendment. tleman from California. do so. The text of the amendment is as fol- Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, the gen- That is why I am so pleased to join lows: tleman is absolutely right. So basically my colleague, the chairman of the Part A amendment No. 3 offered by Mr. what we are doing is providing another Committee on Rules and my other col- DREIER: opportunity, a greater degree of flexi- league, the gentleman from California Page 4, line 11, strike the period and insert bility, so we can deal with this very (Mr. HORN), as well in offering this the following: ‘‘, and accountability-based, pressing problem. amendment. I urge its passage by this proactive programs, including anti-gang pro- Again, this came to our attention body. grams, developed by law enforcement agen- from the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman cies to combat juvenile crime;’’. department. In my State, Pasadena, from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) seek to The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House California, has been very involved in control the time in opposition? Resolution 209, the gentleman from this. We have, I think, what is a cre- Mr. CONYERS. I do, Mr. Chairman. California (Mr. DREIER) and a Member ative, flexible solution, or at least a The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman opposed each will control 5 minutes. help for a very serious problem. from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) is recog- The Chair recognizes the gentleman Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he nized for 5 minutes. from California (Mr. DREIER). may consume to my good friend, the Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, I yield gentleman from Arizona (Mr. 3 minutes to the gentlewoman from myself such time as I may consume. HAYWORTH), with whom I am pleased to California (Ms. LOFGREN), a member of Mr. Chairman, let me at the outset be joined as a cosponsor of this amend- the Committee on the Judiciary. say that I am very pleased to be joined ment. Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, as a in offering this amendment with my Mr. HAYWORTH. Mr. Chairman, I member of the committee, I certainly good friend, the gentleman from Ari- thank my friend, the honored chairman do not object to the proposed amend- zona (Mr. HAYWORTH) and my good of the Committee on Rules, for yielding ment because I think, in fact, although friend, the gentleman from California time to me. the amendment makes clear this is an (Mr. HORN). I would simply address my colleagues eligible activity, I think that is al- This issue really centers around the by reminding them of the situation we ready clear from the underlying bill. question of local control. As we con- find ourselves in the Sixth Congres- We want to do this, the amenders front the issue of violent juvenile sional District in Arizona, an area in want to do this. Therefore there is no crime, it seems to me that it is very square mileage almost as big as the harm in saying it still again, that we important for us to do everything we commonwealth of Pennsylvania, a dis- want this to be an eligible activity. possibly can to empower local commu- trict of many contrasts, part of urban However, I do think it is important nity-based agencies, particularly sher- Phoenix, and a sprawling rural area in to put in context what it is we are iffs and police, to fight gang crime. which the counties are actually larger doing here today in the House of Rep- We all know how these horrible gangs than many States on the East Coast. resentatives. We have struggled on the that have been out there have been in- While in the past, and as my col- Committee on the Judiciary with a ju- volving themselves in illegal com- league from California capably pointed venile justice bill that was way too ex- merce, primarily in the area of drug out, while urban areas we often asso- treme, and due to the efforts of the trafficking, and it goes across both ciate with gang violence and the rise of gentleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOL- State lines and national borders. street crime and gang activity, we also LUM) and the gentleman from Virginia This proposal first came to me from see it in the rural areas of States like (Mr. SCOTT), the ranking member, we Lee Baca, who is the Chairman of Los Arizona. came up with a bipartisan bill, H.R.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00035 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13111 1501, that all of us agree would help in (Mr. HORN) and the gentleman from Ar- The threat that gangs pose to our urban the juvenile justice arena. izona (Mr. HAYWORTH) and I are offer- communities—and to the young men and We had hoped in the committee that ing. women who join them—makes it critical that we would take that bipartisan bill that Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield this bill specifically allow funding for anti-gang we knew would pass, we knew the myself such time as I may consume. programs. I urge my colleagues to vote for this President would sign, and added the Mr. Chairman, I wanted to let the amendment. simple gun safety measures that the gentleman from California (Chairman The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex- other body approved prior to the re- DREIER) know that I appreciate the pired. cess. courtesy that he afforded me in terms The question is on the amendment Instead, what we have here in this of a substitute on the other bill. Had he offered by the gentleman from Cali- process today is that bipartisan bill not come forward as he did, it would fornia (Mr. DREIER). and some innocuous amendments, such have created almost a precedent in the The amendment was agreed to as the current one, that I believe are House, that we on our side could not The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to being used as cover for the killer bring forward a substitute, and I am consider amendment No. 4 printed in amendments that will be offered later happy that the rethinking or rereview Part A of House Report 106–186. of that led the gentleman to his unpar- in the day that will sink the entire AMENDMENT NO. 4 OFFERED BY MR. CAPUANO alleled generosity. I want the gen- measure. I think that is a darned Mr. CAPUANO. Mr. Chairman, I offer tleman to know that I thank him for shame. an amendment. it. This is being done as prelude to what The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- I fear will be a very unproductive effort I also support the amendment offered by the gentleman from California (Mr. ignate the amendment. tomorrow, unproductive from the point The text of the amendment is as fol- of view of those who want gun safety DREIER), the chairman of the Com- mittee on Rules, and his two col- lows: measures, modest ones, commonsense Part A amendment No. 4 offered by Mr. ones such as the Senate has passed, but leagues. This amendment, dealing with juve- CAPUANO: Page 3, after line 10, insert the fol- productive for those who wish to kill nile accountability, block grants, and lowing (and redesignate any subsequent commonsense gun safety measures. paragraphs accordingly): dealing with a proactive program that This amendment is fine, but let us ‘‘(6) providing funding to prosecutors for really interacts among youngsters and not be fooled by what we are doing here the purpose of establishing and maintaining gangs developed by law enforcement today. This entire effort is devised by juvenile witness assistance programs;’’. agencies to combat juvenile crime, is those who oppose any efforts to adopt The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House clearly on the money. I hope that it what the American people want, which Resolution 209, the gentleman from will be agreed to by all of the member- is modest, moderate, commonsense gun Massachusetts (Mr. CAPUANO) and a ship. Member opposed each will control 5 safety measures. I think that is a ter- Mr. HORN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to minutes. rible shame, and really, in so doing we thank the gentleman from California, Mr. will disappoint the legitimate hopes of The Chair recognizes the gentleman DREIER, for ensuring consideration of this from Massachusetts (Mr. CAPUANO). the American people for these modest amendment, and the gentleman from Arizona, steps. Mr. CAPUANO. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. HAYWORTH, for cosponsoring it. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield As currently written, H.R. 1501 provides myself such time as I may consume. such time as he may consume to the $1.5 billion in grants for use by states and Mr. Chairman, earlier this year gentleman from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT). local governments to strengthen the juvenile Jason Sadler, a 14-year-old from my Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I thank justice system through a wide variety of pro- district, witnessed an armed robbery. the gentleman for yielding time to me. grams and initiatives. This amendment would When questioned by the police, he did Mr. Chairman, this amendment is ensure that anti-gang programs run by local what his mother told him to do. He certainly consistent with the under- law-enforcement agencies are eligible for stood up and he told the truth. He iden- lying bill, especially one of the amend- these grants. Under this amendment, federal tified the perpetrators and he agreed to ments that will be presented later, assistance would be available for proactive testify. which would incorporate H.R. 1150. The programs, including anti-gang programs, In return for his actions, Jason has localities would do a plan and deter- based on the principle of accountability and received death threats, along with the mine whether or not this particular developed by law enforcement to combat juve- rest of his family, from the perpetra- program would fit into their plan, if nile crime. This amendment has been en- tors and their cohorts. Because funding they have determined they need this dorsed by the National Sheriffs’ Association. for juvenile witness assistance pro- kind of program. Local anti-gang programs play a critical role grams must compete for priority with It would certainly be eligible under in reducing juvenile crime in our nation’s urban the need to hire assistant district at- that portion of the bill. It is forward- areas. The city of Downey has an excellent torneys, investigators, stenographers, thinking, and I would urge its adop- Gangs Out of Downey program. Los Angeles and the like, Jason’s mother has been tion. County, which includes my district and the dis- forced to remove her son from school Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, will the trict represented by Mr. DREIER, has more for the last 51⁄2 months and place him gentleman yield? than one thousand gangs. Gang-related crime in hiding. Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentleman often requires a different law-enforcement ap- For doing the right thing, Jason will from California. proach compared to other types of crime. have to repeat the eighth grade, and Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, I would Gangs—their activities, their internal culture, for quite a while will have to hide in simply like to express my appreciation, their way of life—can vary from city to city, fear for his life. not only to the gentleman from Florida even from neighborhood to neighborhood, Shortly before Jason’s case, in Janu- (Mr. MCCOLLUM) for accepting the making a localized approach critical to any ary of this year, another young boy, amendment, but to my chief colleague, anti-gang effort. Moreover, anti-gang programs Leroy B.J. Brown from Bridgeport, the gentlewoman from California (Ms. must address the role that gangs play in the Connecticut, stepped forth to do the LOFGREN) and the gentleman from Vir- lives of their members. Many gang members right thing in his time, to assist local ginia (Mr. SCOTT) and the gentleman come from broken homes, and their gang acts authorities in prosecuting drug dealers. from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS). as a surrogate family for them. Anti-gang ef- Eight-year-old B.J. was scheduled to We were very pleased to make the forts must be proactive in providing alter- testify about a shooting that he had gentleman’s amendment in order as we natives to gang life, in keeping young men witnessed, but before he could testify, proceeded with this rule. I appreciate and women from joining a gang before they he and his mother were murdered. the gentleman’s kindness in accepting get pulled into one. A most effective program Both of these kids were good, law- this very, very balanced amendment is the Police Athletic League [PAL]. They have abiding citizens who were willing to that the gentleman from California been effective throughout the United States. step forth and do something many

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00036 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13112 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 adults are not ready to do, stand up Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, following The Chair recognizes the gentleman against crime in their community. the gentleman from Florida (Mr. from West Virginia (Mr. WISE). Our State and local prosecutors MCCOLLUM), this amendment I think if Mr. WISE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 21⁄2 should be encouraged to develop pro- we had had an opportunity to consider minutes to the gentleman from Michi- grams to support such kids when they it in committee, although we did not gan (Mr. STUPAK), the cosponsor of the do the right thing. This amendment have an opportunity but had we had an amendment. will do just that, and I hope it is adopt- opportunity, I think it certainly would Mr. STUPAK. Mr. Chairman, I thank ed. have been included because this kind of the gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance activity was anticipated to be covered WISE) for yielding me this time. of my time. by the bill. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to support The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman I thank the gentleman for offering it my amendment to create new school from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) seek rec- and only wish that we had had an op- violence hotlines. Both the gentleman ognition? portunity to consider it in committee, from West Virginia (Mr. WISE) and I Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I ask but we did not have a full committee have been working on this important to claim the time in opposition. consideration so the gentleman had to amendment to help our communities The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman introduce it on the floor, and I thank prevent acts of violence at schools. I from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) is recog- him for that. thank my colleague, the gentleman nized for 5 minutes in opposition. Mr. CAPUANO. Mr. Chairman, I yield from West Virginia (Mr. WISE) for his Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I back the balance of my time. efforts and his hard work on this and yield myself such time as I may con- urge my colleagues to adopt this Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I sume. amendment. yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Chairman, I do not oppose this Our amendment allows States to cre- amendment, I support it. I just want to The CHAIRMAN. The question is on ate and operate confidential, toll free, clarify a few things about it. the amendment offered by the gen- telephone hotlines that operate 24 First of all, it is a big problem right tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. hours a day, 7 days per week, in order now in this country, witness intimida- CAPUANO). to provide students, parents, school of- tion. It is a problem not only with ju- The amendment was agreed to. ficials and others the opportunity to veniles, but across-the-board. A signifi- The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to report specific threats of imminent cant section in my amendment, a larg- consider amendment No. 5 printed in school violence to appropriate State er comprehensive amendment I am part A of House Report 106–186. and law enforcement entities. going to offer in a few minutes, deals AMENDMENT NO. 5 OFFERED BY MR. WISE Our amendment also ensures that the with witness intimidation, bribery, Mr. WISE. Mr. Chairman, on behalf States properly train people to answer crossing State lines. It even has a of the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. and respond to telephone calls and as- death penalty if you murder somebody STUPAK) and myself, I offer an amend- sist States in the acquisition of tech- in a witness intimidation setting under ment. nology to administer the hotlines. those circumstances. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- Mr. Chairman, hotlines will provide ignate the amendment. parents and students an important tool b 1400 The text of the amendment is as fol- in our effort to reduce school violence. What the gentleman is offering here lows: As chair of the Democratic Crime and perhaps is included in our already ex- Part A amendment No. 5 offered by Mr. Drug Task Force, we have met over the isting No. 5 provision in our grant pro- Wise: last year with school officials and they gram, the underlying 1501 use provi- Page 4, line 18, strike ‘‘and’’ at the end. have detailed to us how these hotlines sions; that is, what the States can use Page 4, line 21, strike the period at the end are particularly valuable because they the money for. But I think it amplifies and insert a semicolon. allow students to report anonymously, and makes it very clear that we are not Page 4, after line 21, insert the following avoiding much of the peer pressure just doing what provision No. 5 says; (and make such technical and conforming that so often affects their behavior. that is, States may do more than sim- changes as may be appropriate): No kid wants to be considered a ‘‘(14) supporting the independent State de- ply provide funds to enable prosecutors velopment and operation of confidential, snitch in their school and many times to address drug, gang and youth vio- toll-free telephone hotlines that will operate potential acts of violence go unre- lence problems more effectively, and 7 days per week, 24 hours per day, in order to ported because of the pressure students for the technology, equipment and provide students, school officials, and other feel from their peers. training to assist the prosecutors in individuals with the opportunity to report Additionally and most importantly, identifying and expediting the prosecu- specific threats of imminent school violence students often fail to report potential tion of violent juvenile offenders, or to report other suspicious or criminal con- violence because of fear that the weap- which No. 5 provides for in the existing duct by juveniles to appropriate State and ons or the violence that they are to re- local law enforcement entities for investiga- bill, but it also will now, with the gen- tion; port may be used against them if they tleman’s amendment that I support, ‘‘(15) ensuring proper State training of per- are found out to be the one who re- make certain that States can use the sonnel who answer and respond to telephone ported to authorities. These hotlines money to provide funding to prosecu- calls to hotlines described in paragraph (14); will eliminate the pressure and allow tors for the purpose of establishing and ‘‘(16) assisting in the acquisition of tech- kids to come forward without fear of maintaining juvenile witness assist- nology necessary to enhance the effective- retaliation. ance programs. ness of hotlines described in paragraph (14), Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues That might have been interpreted to including the utilization of Internet web- to support this important amendment. be included in the one I read earlier, pages or resources; The Senate adopted a similar provision ‘‘(17) enhancing State efforts to offer ap- No. 5, but it is not clear, as clear as propriate counseling services to individuals sponsored by Senators ROBB and SES- now with this amendment. So I think who call a hotline described in paragraph (14) SIONS. We can make this easier for our this is a good amendment. We should threatening to do harm to themselves or oth- children to report potential violent be helping prosecutors protect wit- ers; and acts at school and we can provide a val- nesses in juvenile programs. ‘‘(18) furthering State efforts to publicize uable tool to our communities to help I encourage the adoption of this the services offered by the hotlines described reduce school violence. amendment. in paragraph (14) and to encourage individ- I would like to thank my staff, in Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance uals to utilize those services. particular Dave Buchanan, for all of of my time. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House his hard work on this. Mr. CAPUANO. Mr. Chairman, I yield Resolution 209, the gentleman from Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I ask such time as he may consume to the West Virginia (Mr. WISE) and a Member unanimous consent to claim the time gentleman from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT). opposed each will control 5 minutes. in opposition.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00037 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13113 The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection creation of a statewide toll free school TITLE I—CONSEQUENCES FOR JUVENILE to the request of the gentleman from violence hotline. Today the amend- OFFENDERS ACT OF 1999 Florida? ment that the gentleman from Michi- Sec. 101. Short title. There was no objection. gan (Mr. STUPAK) and I are offering to Sec. 102. Grant program. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I the juvenile justice bill specifies that TITLE II—JUVENILE JUSTICE REFORM yield myself such time as I may con- the block grant funds in this bill can be Sec. 201. Delinquency proceedings or crimi- sume. used to create a hotline and to train nal prosecutions in district Mr. Chairman, I support this amend- and support the personnel to operate courts. ment. I think it is a good amendment. it. Sec. 202. Custody prior to appearance before It adds one more provision to this bill This toll free hotline is a place where judicial officer. Sec. 203. Technical and conforming amend- that is really a complimentary thing students and teachers or anyone else ments to section 5034. with respect to what the funds in the can call to report suspicious behavior, Sec. 204. Detention prior to disposition or grant program for the juvenile justice to make this call anonymously, with- sentencing. systems improvement can be used for. out fear of exposure or retaliation. Sec. 205. Speedy trial. In other words, there is a very impor- Students have told me that many Sec. 206. Disposition; availability of in- tant hotline issue here about schools times they hesitate to alert others of creased detention, fines and su- and training folks to be able to use potentially violent situations because pervised release for juvenile of- fenders. that hotline to report potential vio- they are afraid of being labeled a snitch or they are afraid of retaliation. Sec. 207. Juvenile records and lence in the school and criminal con- fingerprinting. duct in the school among juveniles, and This hotline would allow authorities to Sec. 208. Technical amendments of sections it strikes me that that is indeed at this review the information without put- 5031 and 5034. point, whenever one sees something ting the person passing it along in dan- Sec. 209. Clerical amendments to table of such as a threat of violence by a teen- ger. This is going to be vital for many sections for chapter 403. ager in a school occurring, at that of our smaller counties that might not TITLE III—EFFECTIVE ENFORCEMENT point in time the juvenile justice sys- be able to take this on by themselves. OF FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS tem is enacted, it is in contact, it is a But check with Harrison County in Sec. 301. Armed criminal apprehension pro- part of this system at that point that West Virginia, for instance, or Berke- gram. we want to see these funds used to im- ley County or others that have imple- Sec. 302. Annual reports. Sec. 303. Authorization of appropriations. prove. mented such a hotline to see how im- portant they think it is, as other Sec. 304. Cross-designation of Federal pros- So it strikes me, again, that this is ecutors. at the very initial stage of where we States have done across the country. We have investigated many ways TITLE IV—LIMITING JUVENILE ACCESS want the line to be drawn for the TO FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES money to be used in this legislation. that one can have such a hotline and each State can take its own means, but Sec. 401. Increased penalties for unlawful ju- That is, when the juvenile justice sys- venile possession of firearms. tem first comes into play, when that it is important that we put this in the Sec. 402. Increased penalties and mandatory first telephone ring comes about, 911 or bill so that States know that they can minimum sentence for unlawful through the hotline that is established use these block grant monies to create transfer of firearm to juvenile. here as a special hotline, to the local a toll free, statewide school violence Sec. 403. Prohibiting possession of explo- authorities about something that is hotline that can protect many of our sives by juveniles and young adults. going on in a school, I think that is ex- young people from violence and give tremely important. So I support this them the opportunity to report what TITLE V—PREVENTING CRIMINAL ACCESS TO FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES amendment and urge its adoption to they consider to be a violent situation. Sec. 501. Criminal prohibition on distribu- make sure that the use of money in When our school doors reopen this fall, with this in the bill, we will have tion of certain information re- this respect under this bill is allowable. lating to explosives, destructive I think it is already, but if it is not made our schools safer, and I appre- ciate greatly the chairman of the sub- devices, and weapons of mass that certainly clarifies it. destruction. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- committee and the chairman of the full Sec. 502. Requiring thefts from common car- ance of my time. committee for agreeing to this amend- riers to be reported. Mr. WISE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 ment. Sec. 503. Voluntary submission of dealer’s Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- seconds to the gentleman from Michi- records. ance of my time. Sec. 504. Grant program for juvenile records. gan (Mr. CONYERS), the distinguished The CHAIRMAN. The question is on ranking member. TITLE VI—PUNISHING AND DETERRING the amendment offered by the gen- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I CRIMINAL USE OF FIREARMS AND EX- tleman from West Virginia (Mr. WISE). PLOSIVES thank the gentleman from West Vir- The amendment was agreed to. Sec. 601. Mandatory minimum sentence for ginia (Mr. WISE) for yielding me this The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to discharging a firearm in a time. consider amendment No. 6 printed in school zone. Mr. Chairman, I think this is an ex- part A of House Report 106–186. Sec. 602. Apprehension and procedural treat- cellent amendment. I wanted to praise AMENDMENT NO. 6 OFFERED BY MR. MCCOLLUM. ment of armed violent crimi- the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. nals. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I Sec. 603. Increased penalties for possessing STUPAK) for joining the gentleman offer an amendment. from West Virginia (Mr. WISE) on it. He or transferring stolen firearms. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- Sec. 604. Increased mandatory minimum is one of the Members in the Michigan ignate the amendment. delegation that is standing up to in- penalties for using a firearm to The text of the amendment is as fol- commit a crime of violence or credible scrutiny and he is standing lows: drug trafficking crime. tall as we consider juvenile justice and Part A amendment No. 6 offered by Mr. Sec. 605. Increased penalties for misrepre- gun safety measures here during the MCCOLLUM: sented firearms purchase in aid week and into next week. I thought Page 1, beginning on line 4, strike ‘‘Con- of a serious violent felony. that this would be an appropriate place sequences for Juvenile Offenders’’ and insert Sec. 606. Increasing penalties on gun king- to make that observation. ‘‘Child Safety and Youth Violence Preven- pins. Mr. WISE. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- tion’’. Sec. 607. Serious recordkeeping offenses that Page 1, after line 5, insert the following: self the balance of the time. aid gun trafficking. SEC. 2. TABLE OF CONTENTS. Sec. 608. Termination of firearms dealer’s li- Mr. Chairman, as I listened to people The table of contents of this Act is as fol- cense upon felony conviction. across the State at four school violence lows: Sec. 609. Increased penalty for transactions hearings last summer, several good Sec. 1. Short title. involving firearms with obliter- ideas emerged and one of them is the Sec. 2. Table of contents. ated serial numbers.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00038 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0655 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13114 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Sec. 610. Forfeiture for gun trafficking. cumstances described in subsections (b) and tained the age of 14 and who is subject to the Sec. 611. Increased penalty for firearms con- (c). criminal jurisdiction of an Indian tribal gov- spiracy. ‘‘(2) A juvenile may be proceeded against ernment and who is alleged to have com- Sec. 612. Gun convictions as predicate as a juvenile in a court of the United States mitted an act over which, if committed by crimes for Armed Career Crimi- under this subsection if— an adult, there would be Federal jurisdiction nal Act. ‘‘(A) the alleged offense or act of juvenile based solely on its commission in Indian Sec. 613. Serious juvenile drug trafficking delinquency is committed within the special country (as defined in section 1151), unless offenses as Armed Career maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the the governing body of the tribe having juris- Criminal Act predicates. United States and is one for which the max- diction over the place in which the alleged Sec. 614. Forfeiture of firearms used in imum authorized term of imprisonment does act was committed has before such act noti- crimes of violence and felonies. not exceed 6 months; or fied the Attorney General in writing of its Sec. 615. Separate licenses for gunsmiths. ‘‘(B) the Attorney General, after investiga- election that prosecution may take place Sec. 616. Permits and background checks for tion, certifies to the appropriate United under this subsection. purchases of explosives. States district court that— ‘‘(4) A juvenile may also be prosecuted as Sec. 617. Persons prohibited from receiving ‘‘(i) the juvenile court or other appropriate an adult if the juvenile is alleged to have or possessing explosives. court of a State or Indian tribe does not have committed an act which is not described in subsection (b)(1)(B) after the juvenile has at- TITLE VII—PUNISHING GANG VIOLENCE jurisdiction or declines to assume jurisdic- tion over the juvenile with respect to the al- tained the age of 14 years and which if com- AND DRUG TRAFFICKING TO MINORS mitted by an adult would be— leged act of juvenile delinquency, or Sec. 701. Increased mandatory minimum ‘‘(A) a crime of violence (as defined in sec- ‘‘(ii) there is a substantial Federal interest penalties for using minors to tion 3156(a)(4)) that is a felony; in the case or the offense to warrant the ex- distribute drugs. ‘‘(B) an offense described in section 844(d), ercise of Federal jurisdiction. Sec. 702. Increased mandatory minimum (k), or (l), or subsection (a)(4) or (6), (b), (g), ‘‘(3) If the Attorney General does not so penalties for distributing drugs (h), (j), (k), or (l) of section 924; certify or does not have authority to try to minors. ‘‘(C) a violation of section 922(o) that is an such juvenile as an adult, such juvenile shall Sec. 703. Increased mandatory minimum offense under section 924(a)(2); be surrendered to the appropriate legal au- penalties for drug trafficking in ‘‘(D) a violation of section 5861 of the Inter- thorities of such State or tribe. or near a school or other pro- nal Revenue Code of 1986 that is an offense ‘‘(4) If a juvenile alleged to have com- tected location. under section 5871 of such Code (26 U.S.C. mitted an act of juvenile delinquency is pro- Sec. 704. Criminal street gangs. 5871); ceeded against as a juvenile under this sec- Sec. 705. Increase in offense level for partici- ‘‘(E) a conspiracy to commit an offense de- tion, any proceedings against the juvenile pation in crime as a gang mem- scribed in any of subparagraphs (A) through shall be in an appropriate district court of ber. (D); or the United States. For such purposes, the Sec. 706. Interstate and foreign travel or ‘‘(F) an offense described in section 401 or court may be convened at any time and place transportation in aid of crimi- 408 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 within the district, and shall be open to the nal gangs. U.S.C. 841, 848) or a conspiracy or attempt to public, except that the court may exclude all Sec. 707. Gang-related witness intimidation commit that offense which is punishable or some members of the public, other than a and retaliation. under section 406 of the Controlled Sub- victim unless the victim is a witness in the stances Act (21 U.S.C. 846), or an offense pun- TITLE I—CONSEQUENCES FOR JUVENILE determination of guilt or innocence, if re- ishable under section 409 or 419 of the Con- OFFENDERS ACT OF 1999 quired by the interests of justice or if other trolled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 849, 860), or SEC. 101. SHORT TITLE. good cause is shown. The Attorney General an offense described in section 1002, 1003, This title may be cited as the ‘‘Con- shall proceed by information or as author- 1005, or 1009 of the Controlled Substances Im- sequences for Juvenile Offenders Act of ized by section 3401(g) of this title, and no port and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 952, 953, 955, or 1999’’. criminal prosecution shall be instituted ex- 959), or a conspiracy or attempt to commit Page 2, line 1, strike ‘‘2’’ and insert ‘‘102’’. cept as provided in this chapter. that offense which is punishable under sec- Page 4, line 11, strike the period and insert ‘‘(b)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), tion 1013 of the Controlled Substances Im- a semicolon. a juvenile shall be prosecuted as an adult— port and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 963). Page 6, line 10, strike ‘‘juvenile’’ and all ‘‘(A) if the juvenile has requested in writ- ‘‘(d) A determination to approve or not to that follows through ‘‘every’’ on line 11 and ing upon advice of counsel to be prosecuted insert the following: ‘‘a juvenile offender for approve, or to institute or not to institute, a as an adult; or prosecution under subsection (b) or (c), and a each delinquent’’. ‘‘(B) if the juvenile is alleged to have com- determination to file or not to file, and the Page 6, line 13, strike ‘‘or criminal’’. mitted an act after the juvenile attains the contents of, a certification under subsection Page 16, line 16, strike ‘‘utilized’’ and in- age of 14 years which if committed by an (a) or (b) shall not be reviewable in any sert the following: ‘‘used by a State or unit adult would be a serious violent felony or a court. of local government that receives a grant serious drug offense described in section ‘‘(e) In a prosecution under subsection (b) under this part’’. 3559(c) of this title, or a conspiracy or at- or (c), the juvenile may be prosecuted and Page 16, line 18, strike ‘‘(a)(2)’’ and insert tempt to commit that felony or offense, convicted as an adult for any other offense ‘‘(b)’’. which is punishable under section 406 of the which is properly joined under the Federal Page 20, strike line 4, and insert the fol- Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 846), or Rules of Criminal Procedure, and may also lowing: section 1013 of the Controlled Substances Im- be convicted of a lesser included offense. (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENTS.— port and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 963). ‘‘(f) The Attorney General shall annually (1) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.— ‘‘(2) The requirements of paragraph (1) do report to Congress— Section 1001(a)(16) of the Omnibus Crime not apply if the Attorney General certifies to ‘‘(1) the number of juveniles adjudicated Control and Safe Streets Act of 1965 is the appropriate United States district court delinquent or tried as adults in Federal amended by striking subparagraph (E). that the interests of public safety are best court; (2) TABLE OF CONTENTS.—The table of con- served by proceeding against the juvenile as ‘‘(2) the race, ethnicity, and gender of tents a juvenile. those juveniles; At the end of the bill, insert the following: ‘‘(c)(1) A juvenile may also be prosecuted ‘‘(3) the number of those juveniles who TITLE II—JUVENILE JUSTICE REFORM as an adult if the juvenile is alleged to have were abused or neglected by their families, committed an act after the juvenile has at- to the extent such information is available; SEC. 201. DELINQUENCY PROCEEDINGS OR tained the age of 13 years which if com- and CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS IN DIS- mitted by a juvenile after the juvenile at- TRICT COURTS. ‘‘(4) the number and types of assault tained the age of 14 years would require that Section 5032 of title 18, United States Code, crimes, such as rapes and beatings, com- the juvenile be prosecuted as an adult under is amended to read as follows: mitted against juveniles while incarcerated subsection (b), upon approval of the Attor- in connection with the adjudication or con- ‘‘§ 5032. Delinquency proceedings or criminal ney General. viction. prosecutions in district courts ‘‘(2) The Attorney General shall not dele- ‘‘(g) As used in this section— ‘‘(a)(1) A juvenile alleged to have com- gate the authority to give the approval re- ‘‘(1) the term ‘State’ includes a State of mitted an offense against the United States quired under paragraph (1) to an officer or the United States, the District of Columbia, or an act of juvenile delinquency may be sur- employee of the Department of Justice at a any commonwealth, territory, or possession rendered to State or Indian tribal authori- level lower than a Deputy Assistant Attor- of the United States and, with regard to an ties, but if not so surrendered, shall be pro- ney General. act of juvenile delinquency that would have ceeded against as a juvenile under this sub- ‘‘(3) Such approval shall not be granted, been a misdemeanor if committed by an section or tried as an adult in the cir- with respect to a juvenile who has not at- adult, a federally recognized tribe; and

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00039 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13115 ‘‘(2) the term ‘serious violent felony’ has (3) striking ‘‘the court,’’ and all that fol- necessary to obtain the desired information. the same meaning given that term in section lows through the end of the section and in- In the case of an alleged juvenile delinquent, 3559(c)(2)(F)(i).’’. serting ‘‘the court. The periods of exclusion inpatient study may be ordered only with SEC. 202. CUSTODY PRIOR TO APPEARANCE BE- under section 3161(h) of this title shall apply the consent of the juvenile and the juvenile’s FORE JUDICIAL OFFICER. to this section.’’. attorney. The agency or entity shall make a Section 5033 of title 18, United States Code, SEC. 206. DISPOSITION; AVAILABILITY OF IN- study of all matters relevant to the alleged is amended to read as follows: CREASED DETENTION, FINES AND or adjudicated delinquent behavior and the ‘‘§ 5033. Custody prior to appearance before SUPERVISED RELEASE FOR JUVE- court’s inquiry. The Attorney General shall NILE OFFENDERS. judicial officer submit to the court and the attorneys for the (a) DISPOSITION.—Section 5037 of title 18, juvenile and the Government the results of ‘‘(a) Whenever a juvenile is taken into cus- United States Code, is amended to read as the study within 30 days after the commit- tody, the arresting officer shall immediately follows: ment of the juvenile, unless the court grants advise such juvenile of the juvenile’s rights, ‘‘§ 5037. Disposition additional time. Time spent in custody under in language comprehensible to a juvenile. this subsection shall be excluded for pur- The arresting officer shall promptly take ‘‘(a) In a proceeding under section 5032(a), if the court finds a juvenile to be a juvenile poses of section 5036. reasonable steps to notify the juvenile’s par- ‘‘(f)(1) The United States Sentencing Com- ents, guardian, or custodian of such custody, delinquent, the court shall hold a hearing concerning the appropriate disposition of the mission, in consultation with the Attorney of the rights of the juvenile, and of the na- General, shall develop a list of possible sanc- ture of the alleged offense. juvenile no later than 40 court days after the finding of juvenile delinquency, unless the tions for juveniles adjudicated delinquent. ‘‘(b) The juvenile shall be taken before a ‘‘(2) Such list shall— court has ordered further study pursuant to judicial officer without unreasonable ‘‘(A) be comprehensive in nature and en- subsection (e). A predisposition report shall delay.’’. compass punishments of varying levels of se- be prepared by the probation officer who SEC. 203. TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMEND- verity; shall promptly provide a copy to the juve- MENTS TO SECTION 5034. ‘‘(B) include terms of confinement; and nile, the juvenile’s counsel, and the attorney Section 5034 of title 18, United States Code, ‘‘(C) provide punishments that escalate in for the Government. Victim impact informa- is amended— severity with each additional or subsequent tion shall be included in the report, and vic- (1) by striking ‘‘The’’ each place it appears more serious delinquent conduct.’’. tims, or in appropriate cases their official at the beginning of a paragraph and insert- (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The Sentencing Com- ing ‘‘the’’; representatives, shall be provided the oppor- mission shall develop the list required pursu- (2) by striking ‘‘If’’ at the beginning of the tunity to make a statement to the court in ant to section 5037(f), as amended by sub- 3rd paragraph and inserting ‘‘if’’; person or present any information in rela- section (a), not later than 180 days after the (3)(A) by designating the 3 paragraphs as tion to the disposition. After the date of the enactment of this Act. paragraphs (1), (2), and (3), respectively; and dispositional hearing, and after considering (c) CONFORMING AMENDMENT TO ADULT SEN- (B) by moving such designated paragraphs the sanctions recommended pursuant to sub- TENCING SECTION.—Section 3553 of title 18, 2 ems to the right; and section (f), the court shall impose an appro- United States Code, is amended by adding at (4) by inserting at the beginning of such priate sanction, including the ordering of the end the following: section before those paragraphs the fol- restitution pursuant to section 3556 of this ‘‘(g) LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY OF STAT- lowing: title. The court may order the juvenile’s par- UTORY MINIMUMS IN CERTAIN PROSECUTIONS ‘‘In a proceeding under section 5032(a)—’’. ent, guardian, or custodian to be present at OF PERSONS UNDER THE AGE OF 16.—Notwith- the dispositional hearing and the imposition standing any other provision of law, in the SEC. 204. DETENTION PRIOR TO DISPOSITION OR SENTENCING. of sanctions and may issue orders directed to case of a defendant convicted for conduct Section 5035 of title 18, United States Code, such parent, guardian, custodian regarding that occurred before the juvenile attained is amended to read as follows: conduct with respect to the juvenile. With the age of 16 years, the court shall impose a respect to release or detention pending an sentence without regard to any statutory ‘‘§ 5035. Detention prior to disposition or sen- appeal or a petition for a writ of certiorari minimum sentence, if the court finds at sen- tencing after disposition, the court shall proceed tencing, after affording the Government an ‘‘(a) A juvenile alleged to be delinquent or pursuant to chapter 207. opportunity to make a recommendation, a juvenile being prosecuted as an adult, if de- ‘‘(b) The term for which probation may be that the juvenile has not been previously ad- tained at any time prior to sentencing, shall ordered for a juvenile found to be a juvenile judicated delinquent for or convicted of an be detained in such suitable place as the At- delinquent may not extend beyond the max- offense described in section 5032(b)(1)(B).’’. torney General may designate. Whenever ap- imum term that would be authorized by sec- SEC. 207. JUVENILE RECORDS AND propriate, detention shall be in a foster home tion 3561(c) if the juvenile had been tried and FINGERPRINTING. or community based facility. Preference convicted as an adult. Sections 3563, 3564, and Section 5038 of title 18, United States Code, shall be given to a place located within, or 3565 are applicable to an order placing a juve- is amended to read as follows: within a reasonable distance of, the district nile on probation. ‘‘§ 5038. Juvenile records and fingerprinting in which the juvenile is being prosecuted. ‘‘(c) The term for which official detention ‘‘(a)(1) Throughout and upon the comple- ‘‘(b) To the maximum extent feasible, a ju- may be ordered for a juvenile found to be a tion of the juvenile delinquency proceeding venile prosecuted pursuant to subsection (b) juvenile delinquent may not extend beyond under section 5032(a), the court shall keep a or (c) of section 5032 shall not be detained the lesser of— record relating to the arrest and adjudica- prior to sentencing in any facility in which ‘‘(1) the maximum term of imprisonment tion that is— the juvenile has regular contact with adult that would be authorized if the juvenile had ‘‘(A) equivalent to the record that would be persons convicted of a crime or awaiting been tried and convicted as an adult; kept of an adult arrest and conviction for trial on criminal charges. ‘‘(2) ten years; or such an offense; and ‘‘(c) A juvenile who is proceeded against ‘‘(3) the date when the juvenile becomes ‘‘(B) retained for a period of time that is under section 5032(a) shall not be detained twenty-six years old. equal to the period of time records are kept prior to disposition in any facility in which Section 3624 is applicable to an order placing for adult convictions. the juvenile has regular contact with adult a juvenile in detention. ‘‘(2) Such records shall be made available persons convicted of a crime or awaiting ‘‘(d) The term for which supervised release for official purposes, including communica- trial on criminal charges. may be ordered for a juvenile found to be a tions with any victim or, in the case of a de- ‘‘(d) Every juvenile who is detained prior juvenile delinquent may not extend beyond 5 ceased victim, such victim’s representative, to disposition or sentencing shall be provided years. Subsections (c) through (i) of section or school officials, and to the public to the with reasonable safety and security and with 3583 apply to an order placing a juvenile on same extent as court records regarding the adequate food, heat, light, sanitary facili- supervised release. criminal prosecutions of adults are avail- ties, bedding, clothing, recreation, edu- ‘‘(e) If the court desires more detailed in- able. cation, and medical care, including nec- formation concerning a juvenile alleged to ‘‘(b) The Attorney General shall establish essary psychiatric, psychological, or other have committed an act of juvenile delin- guidelines for fingerprinting and care and treatment.’’. quency or a juvenile adjudicated delinquent, photographing a juvenile who is the subject SEC. 205. SPEEDY TRIAL. it may commit the juvenile, after notice and of any proceeding authorized under this Section 5036 of title 18, United States Code, hearing at which the juvenile is represented chapter. Such guidelines shall address the is amended by— by counsel, to the custody of the Attorney availability of pictures of any juvenile taken (1) striking ‘‘If an alleged delinquent’’ and General for observation and study by an ap- into custody but not prosecuted as an adult. inserting ‘‘If a juvenile proceeded against propriate agency or entity. Such observation Fingerprints and photographs of a juvenile under section 5032(a)’’; and study shall be conducted on an out- who is prosecuted as an adult shall be made (2) striking ‘‘thirty’’ and inserting ‘‘45’’; patient basis, unless the court determines available in the manner applicable to adult and that inpatient observation and study are offenders.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00040 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13116 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 ‘‘(c) Whenever a juvenile has been adju- States Attorney for prosecution of persons neys and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and dicated delinquent for an act that, if com- arrested for violations of chapter 44 of title Firearms agents; and mitted by an adult, would be a felony or for 18, United States Code, or section 5861(d) or (2) $10,000,000 shall be available for the pub- a violation of section 924(a)(6), the court 5861(h) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, lic relations campaign required by sub- shall transmit to the Federal Bureau of In- relating to firearms; section (c) of that section. vestigation the information concerning the (3) require that the United States Attorney (b) USE OF FUNDS.— adjudication, including name, date of adju- designate not less than 1 Assistant United (1) The Assistant United States Attorneys dication, court, offenses, and sentence, along States Attorney to prosecute violations of hired using amounts appropriated pursuant with the notation that the matter was a ju- Federal firearms laws; to the authorization of appropriations in venile adjudication. (4) provide for the hiring of agents for the subsection (a) shall prosecute violations of ‘‘(d) In addition to any other authorization Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to Federal firearms laws in accordance with under this section for the reporting, reten- investigate violations of the provisions re- section 301(b)(3). tion, disclosure, or availability of records or ferred to in paragraph (2); and (2) The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and information, if the law of the State in which (5) ensure that each person referred to the Firearms agents hired using amounts appro- a Federal juvenile delinquency proceeding United States Attorney under paragraph (2) priated pursuant to the authorization of ap- takes place permits or requires the report- be charged with a violation of the most seri- propriations in subsection (a) shall, to the ing, retention, disclosure, or availability of ous Federal firearm offense consistent with maximum extent practicable, concentrate records or information relating to a juvenile the act committed. their investigations on violations of Federal or to a juvenile delinquency proceeding or (c) PUBLIC EDUCATION CAMPAIGN.—As part firearms laws in accordance with section adjudication in certain circumstances, then of the program, each United States Attorney 301(b)(4). such reporting, retention, disclosure, or shall carry out, in cooperation with local (3) It is the sense of Congress that amounts availability is permitted under this section civic, community, law enforcement, and reli- made available under this section for the whenever the same circumstances exist.’’. gious organizations, an extensive media and public education campaign required by sec- public outreach campaign focused in high- tion 301(c) should, to the maximum extent SEC. 208. TECHNICAL AMENDMENTS OF SEC- crime areas to— TIONS 5031 AND 5034. practicable, be matched with State or local (1) educate the public about the severity of (a) ELIMINATION OF PRONOUNS.—Sections funds or private donations. penalties for violations of Federal firearms (c) AUTHORIZATION OF ADDITIONAL APPRO- 5031 and 5034 of title 18, United States Code, laws; and are each amended by striking ‘‘his’’ each PRIATIONS.—In addition to amounts made (2) encourage law-abiding citizens to report available under subsection (a), there is au- place it appears and inserting ‘‘the juve- the possession of illegal firearms to authori- nile’s’’. thorized to be appropriated to the Adminis- ties. trative Office of the United States Courts (b) UPDATING OF REFERENCE.—Section 5034 (d) WAIVER AUTHORITY.— such sums as may be necessary to carry out of title 18, United States Code, is amended— (1) REQUEST FOR WAIVER.—A United States this title. (1) in the heading of such section, by strik- attorney may request the Attorney General ing ‘‘magistrate’’ and inserting ‘‘judicial offi- to waive the requirements of subsection (b) SEC. 304. CROSS-DESIGNATION OF FEDERAL cer’’; and with respect to the United States attorney. PROSECUTORS. To better assist state and local law en- (2) by striking ‘‘magistrate’’ each place it (2) PROVISION OF WAIVER.—The Attorney appears and inserting ‘‘judicial officer’’. General may waive the requirements of sub- forcement agencies in the investigation and SEC. 209. CLERICAL AMENDMENTS TO TABLE OF section (b) pursuant to a request made under prosecution of firearms offenses, each United SECTIONS FOR CHAPTER 403. paragraph (1), in accordance with guidelines States Attorney may cross-designate one or The heading and the table of sections at which shall be established by the Attorney more Assistant United States Attorneys to the beginning of chapter 403 of title 18, General. In establishing the guidelines, the prosecute firearms offenses under State law United States Code, is amended to read as Attorney General shall take into consider- that are similar to those listed in section follows: ation the number of assistant United States 301(b)(2) in State and local courts. ‘‘CHAPTER 403—JUVENILE DELINQUENCY attorneys in the office of the United States TITLE IV—LIMITING JUVENILE ACCESS attorney making the request and the level of TO FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES ‘‘Sec. violent youth crime committed in the dis- ‘‘5031. Definitions. SEC. 401. INCREASED PENALTIES FOR UNLAWFUL trict for which the United States attorney is JUVENILE POSSESSION OF FIRE- ‘‘5032. Delinquency proceedings or criminal appointed. ARMS. prosecutions in district courts. Section 924(a) of title 18, United States ‘‘5033. Custody prior to appearance before ju- SEC. 302. ANNUAL REPORTS. Code, is amended— dicial officer. Not later than 1 year after the date of en- (1) in paragraph (4) by striking ‘‘Whoever’’ ‘‘5034. Duties of judicial officer. actment of this Act, and annually thereafter, the Attorney General shall submit to the and inserting ‘‘Except as provided in para- ‘‘5035. Detention prior to disposition or sen- Committees on the Judiciary of Senate and graph (6) of this subsection, whoever’’; and tencing. House of Representatives a report containing (2) by striking paragraph (6) and inserting ‘‘5036. Speedy trial. the following information: the following: ‘‘5037. Disposition. (1) The number of Assistant United States ‘‘(6)(A) A juvenile who violates section ‘‘5038. Juvenile records and fingerprinting. Attorneys deisgnated under the program 922(x) shall be fined under this title, impris- ‘‘5039. Commitment. under section 301 and cross-deisgnated under oned not more than 1 year, or both, except— ‘‘5040. Support. section 304 during the year preceding the ‘‘(i) the juvenile shall be fined under this ‘‘5041. Repealed. year in which the report is submitted in title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or ‘‘5042. Revocation of probation.’’. order to prosecute violations of Federal fire- both, if— TITLE III—EFFECTIVE ENFORCEMENT OF arms laws in Federal court. ‘‘(I) the offense of which the juvenile is FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS (2) The number of individuals indicted for charged is a violation of section 922(x); and SEC. 301. ARMED CRIMINAL APPREHENSION PRO- such violations during that year by reason of ‘‘(II) the violation was also with the intent GRAM. the program. to possess the handgun, ammunition, large (a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 90 days (3) The increase or decrease in the number capacity ammunition feeding device, or after the date of enactment of this Act, the of individuals indicted for such violations semiautomatic assault weapon giving rise to Attorney General shall establish in the office during that year by reason of the program the violation in a school zone, or knowing of each United States Attorney a program when compared with the year preceding that that another juvenile intends to possess the that meets the requirements of subsections year. handgun, ammunition, large capacity feed- (b) and (c). The program shall be known as (4) The number of individuals held without ing device, or semiautomatic assault weapon the ‘‘Armed Criminal Apprehension Pro- bond in anticipation of prosecution by rea- giving rise to the violation in a school zone; gram’’. son of the program. ‘‘(ii) the juvenile shall be fined under this (b) PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS.—In the office (5) The average length of prison sentence of title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or of each United States Attorney, the program the individuals convicted of violations of both, if— established under subsection (a) shall— Federal firearms laws by reason of the pro- ‘‘(I) the offense of which the juvenile is (1) provide for coordination with State and gram. charged is a violation of section 922(x); and local law enforcement officials in the identi- SEC. 303. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS. ‘‘(II) the violation was also with the intent fication of violations of Federal firearms (a) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.— also to use the handgun, ammunition, large laws; There are authorized to be appropriated to capacity ammunition feeding device, or (2) provide for the establishment of agree- carry out the program under section 301 semiautomatic assault weapon giving rise to ments with State and local law enforcement $50,000,000 for fiscal year 2000, of which— the violation in the commission of a violent officials for the referral to the Bureau of Al- (1) $40,000,000 shall be used for salaries and felony, or knowing that another juvenile in- cohol, Tobacco, and Firearms and the United expenses of Assistant United States Attor- tends to use the handgun, ammunition, large

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00041 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13117 capacity ammunition feeding device, or TITLE V—PREVENTING CRIMINAL ACCESS censee may retain the records of the discon- semiautomatic assault weapon giving rise to TO FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES tinued business or submit the discontinued the violation in the commission of a serious SEC. 501. CRIMINAL PROHIBITION ON DISTRIBU- business records to the Secretary. Addition- violent felony. TION OF CERTAIN INFORMATION RE- ally, a licensee while maintaining a firearms ‘‘(B) For purposes of this paragraph, the LATING TO EXPLOSIVES, DESTRUC- business may voluntarily submit the records TIVE DEVICES, AND WEAPONS OF required to be kept by this chapter to the term ‘serious violent felony’ has the mean- MASS DESTRUCTION. Secretary if such records are at least 20 ing given the term in section 3559(c)(2)(F). (a) UNLAWFUL CONDUCT.—Section 842 of years old. Where discontinuance of the busi- ‘‘(C) Except as otherwise provided in this title 18, United States Code, is amended by ness is absolute, such records shall be deliv- chapter, in any case in which a juvenile is adding at the end the following: ered within thirty days after the business is prosecuted in a district court of the United ‘‘(p)(1) For purposes of this subsection: discontinued to the Secretary. Where State ‘‘(A) The term ‘destructive device’ has the States, and the juvenile is subject to pen- law or local ordinance requires the delivery same meaning as in section 921(a)(4). alties under subparagraph (A)(ii), the juve- of records to another responsible authority, ‘‘(B) The term ‘explosive’ has the same the Secretary may arrange for the delivery nile shall be subject to the same laws, rules, meaning as in section 844(j). of such records to such other responsible au- and proceedings regarding sentencing (in- ‘‘(C) The term ‘weapon of mass destruc- thority.’’. cluding the availability of probation, res- tion’ has the same meaning as in section SEC. 504. GRANT PROGRAM FOR JUVENILE titution, fines, forfeiture, imprisonment, and 2332a(c)(2). RECORDS. supervised release) that would be applicable ‘‘(2) It shall be unlawful for any person— (a) PROGRAM AUTHORIZATION.—The Attor- in the case of an adult. No juvenile sentenced ‘‘(A) to teach or demonstrate the making ney General is authorized to provide grants to a term of imprisonment shall be released or use of an explosive, a destructive device, to States to improve the quality and accessi- from custody simply because the juvenile at- or a weapon of mass destruction, or to dis- bility of juvenile records and to ensure juve- tains 18 years of age.’’. tribute by any means information pertaining nile records are routinely available for back- to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or ground checks performed in connection with SEC. 402. INCREASED PENALTIES AND MANDA- use of an explosive, destructive device, or the transfer of a firearm. TORY MINIMUM SENTENCE FOR UN- weapon of mass destruction, with the intent (b) ELIGIBILITY.— LAWFUL TRANSFER OF FIREARM TO that the teaching, demonstration, or infor- (1) IN GENERAL.—A State that wishes to re- JUVENILE. mation be used for, or in furtherance of, an ceive a grant under this section shall submit Section 924(a)(6) of title 18, United States activity that constitutes a Federal crime of an application to the Attorney General that Code, is further amended by redesignating violence; or meets the requirements of paragraph (2). subparagraphs (B) and (C) as subparagraphs ‘‘(B) to teach or demonstrate to any person (2) ASSURANCE.—The application referred (C) and (D), respectively, and by inserting the making or use of an explosive, a destruc- to in paragraph (1) shall include an assur- after subparagraph (A) the following: tive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, ance that the State has in place a system of or to distribute to any person, by any means, records that ensures that juvenile records ‘‘(B) A person other than a juvenile who information pertaining to, in whole or in are available for background checks per- knowingly violates section 922(x)— part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, formed in connection with the transfer of a ‘‘(i) shall be fined under this title, impris- destructive device, or weapon of mass de- firearm, in which such system provides oned not more than 5 years, or both; struction, knowing that such person intends that— ‘‘(ii) if the person violated section 922(x)(1) to use the teaching, demonstration, or infor- (A) an adjudication of an act of violent ju- knowing that a juvenile intended to possess mation for, or in furtherance of, an activity venile delinquency as defined in section the handgun, ammunition, large capacity that constitutes a Federal crime of vio- 921(a)(20)(B) is not expunged or set aside ammunition feeding device, or semiauto- lence.’’. after a juvenile reaches the age of majority; matic assault weapon giving rise to the vio- (b) PENALTIES.—Section 844 of title 18, and lation of section 922(x)(1) in a school zone, United States Code, is amended— (B) such a juvenile record is available and shall be fined under this title and imprisoned (1) in subsection (a), by striking ‘‘person retained as if it were an adult record. not less than 3 years and not more than 20 who violates any of subsections’’ and insert- (c) ALLOCATION.—Of the total funds appro- years; and ing the following: ‘‘person who— priated under subsection (e), each State that ‘‘(iii) if the person violated section 922(x)(1) ‘‘(1) violates any of subsections’’; meets the requirements of subsection (b), knowing that a juvenile intended to use the (2) by striking the period and inserting ‘‘; shall be allocated an amount which bears the handgun, ammunition, large capacity ammu- and’’; same ratio to the amount of funds so appro- nition feeding device, or semiautomatic as- (3) by adding at the end the following: priated as the population of individuals sault weapon giving rise to the violation of ‘‘(2) violates section 842(p)(2), shall be fined under the age of 18 living in such State for section 922(x)(1) in the commission of a seri- under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 the most recent calendar year in which such ous violent felony, shall be imprisoned not years, or both.’’; and data is available bears to the population of less than 10 years and not more than 20 years (4) in subsection (j), by inserting ‘‘and sec- such individuals of all the States that meet and fined under this title.’’. tion 842(p),’’ after ‘‘this section,’’. the requirements of subsection (b) for such fiscal year. SEC. 403. PROHIBITING POSSESSION OF EXPLO- SEC. 502. REQUIRING THEFTS FROM COMMON SIVES BY JUVENILES AND YOUNG CARRIERS TO BE REPORTED. (d) USES OF FUNDS.—A State that receives ADULTS. (a) Section 922(f) of title 18, United States a grant award under this section may use Code, is amended by adding at the end the such funds to support the administrative Section 842 of title 18, United States Code, following: record system referred to in subsection is amended by adding at the end the fol- ‘‘(3)(A) It shall be unlawful for any com- (b)(2). lowing: mon or contract carrier to fail to report the (e) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATION.— ‘‘(r)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person theft or loss of a firearm within 48 hours There are authorized to be appropriated to who has not attained 21 years of age to ship after the theft or loss is discovered. The carry out this section, $25,000,000 for fiscal year 2000 and such sums as may be necessary or transport any explosive materials in theft or loss shall be reported to the Sec- retary and to the appropriate local authori- for each of the 4 succeeding fiscal years. interstate or foreign commerce or to receive ties. TITLE VI—PUNISHING AND DETERRING or possess any explosive materials which has ‘‘(B) The Secretary may impose a civil fine CRIMINAL USE OF FIREARMS AND EX- been shipped or transported in interstate or of not more than $10,000 on any person who PLOSIVES foreign commerce. knowingly violates subparagraph (A).’’. SEC. 601. MANDATORY MINIMUM SENTENCE FOR ‘‘(2) This subsection shall not apply to (b) Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United DISCHARGING A FIREARM IN A commercially manufactured black powder in States Code, is amended by striking ‘‘(f),’’ SCHOOL ZONE. bulk quantities not to exceed five pounds, and inserting ‘‘(f)(1), (f)(2),’’. Section 924(a)(4) of title 18, United States and if the person is less than 18 years of age, SEC. 503. VOLUNTARY SUBMISSION OF DEALER’S Code, is amended— the person has the prior written consent of RECORDS. (1) by striking ‘‘922(q) shall be fined’’ and Section 923(g)(4) of title 18, United States inserting ‘‘922(q)(2) shall be fined’’; and the person’s parents or guardian who is not Code, is amended to read as follows: (2) by inserting after the first sentence the prohibited by Federal, State, or local law ‘‘(4) Where a firearms or ammunition busi- following: ‘‘Whoever violates section 922(q)(3) from possessing explosive materials, and the ness is discontinued and succeeded by a new with reckless disregard for the safety of an- person has the prior written consent in the licensee, the records required to be kept by other shall be fined under this title, impris- person’s possession at all times when the this chapter shall appropriately reflect such oned not more than 20 years, or both, except black powder is in the possession of the per- facts and shall be delivered to the successor. that if serious bodily injury results, shall be son.’’. Upon receipt of such records the successor li- fined under this title, imprisoned not more

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00042 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13118 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 than 25 years, or both, or if death results and (B) in clause (iii), by striking ‘‘10 years.’’ SEC. 609. INCREASED PENALTY FOR TRANS- the person has attained 16 years of age but and inserting ‘‘12 years; and’’; and ACTIONS INVOLVING FIREARMS has not attained 18 years of age, shall be (C) by adding at the end the following: WITH OBLITERATED SERIAL NUM- fined under this title, sentenced to imprison- ‘‘(iv) if the firearm is used to injure an- BERS. ment for life or for any term of years, or other person, be sentenced to a term of im- Section 924(a) of title 18, United States both, or if death results and the person has prisonment of not less than 15 years.’’; and Code, is amended— attained 18 years of age, shall be fined under (2) in subsection (h), by striking ‘‘impris- (1) in paragraph (1)(B), by striking ‘‘(k),’’; this title, sentenced to death or to imprison- oned not more than 10 years’’ and inserting and ment for any term of years or for life, or ‘‘imprisoned not less than 5 years and not (2) in paragraph (2), by inserting ‘‘(k),’’ both. Whoever knowingly violates section more than 10 years’’. after ‘‘(j),’’. SEC. 610. FORFEITURE FOR GUN TRAFFICKING. 922(q)(3) shall be fined under this title, im- SEC. 605. INCREASED PENALTIES FOR MISREPRE- prisoned not less than 10 years and not more SENTED FIREARMS PURCHASE IN Section 982(a) of title 18, United States than 20 years, or both, except that if serious AID OF A SERIOUS VIOLENT FELONY. Code, is amended by adding at the end the bodily injury results, shall be fined under (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 924(a) of title 18, following: this title, imprisoned not less than 15 years United States Code, is amended by adding at ‘‘(9) The court, in imposing a sentence on a and not more than 25 years, or both, or if the end the following: person convicted of a gun trafficking offense, death results and the person has attained 16 ‘‘(7)(A) Notwithstanding paragraph (2), as defined in section 981(a)(1)(G), or a con- years of age but has not attained 18 years of whoever knowingly violates section 922(a)(6) spiracy to commit such offense, shall order age, shall be fined under this title, sentenced for the purpose of selling, delivering, or oth- the person to forfeit to the United States to imprisonment for life, or both, or if death erwise transferring a firearm, knowing or any conveyance used or intended to be used results and the person has attained 18 years having reasonable cause to know that an- to commit such offense, and any property of age, shall be fined under this title, sen- other person will carry or otherwise possess traceable to such conveyance.’’. tenced to death or to imprisonment for life, or discharge or otherwise use the firearm in SEC. 611. INCREASED PENALTY FOR FIREARMS or both.’’. the commission of a serious violent felony, CONSPIRACY. SEC. 602. APPREHENSION AND PROCEDURAL shall be— Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, TREATMENT OF ARMED VIOLENT ‘‘(i) fined under this title, imprisoned not is further amended by adding at the end the CRIMINALS. following: (a) PRETRIAL DETENTION FOR POSSESSION more than 15 years, or both; or ‘‘(ii) imprisoned not less than 10 and not ‘‘(q) Except as otherwise provided in this OF FIREARMS OR EXPLOSIVES BY CONVICTED section, a person who conspires to commit FELONS.—Section 3156(a)(4) of title 18, United more than 20 years and fined under this title, an offense defined in this chapter shall be States Code, is amended— if the procurement is for a juvenile. subject to the same penalties (other than the (1) by striking ‘‘or’’ at the end of subpara- ‘‘(B) For purposes of this paragraph— penalty of death) as those prescribed for the graph (B); ‘‘(i) the term ‘juvenile’ has the meaning offense the commission of which is the ob- (2) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of subpara- given the term in section 922(x); and ject of the conspiracy.’’. graph (C) and inserting ‘‘or’’; and ‘‘(ii) the term ‘serious violent felony’ has (3) by adding at the end the following: the meaning given the term in section SEC. 612. GUN CONVICTIONS AS PREDICATE ‘‘(D) an offense that is a violation of sec- 3559(c)(2)(F).’’. CRIMES FOR ARMED CAREER CRIMI- NAL ACT. tion 842(i) or 922(g) (relating to possession of (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendment (a) Section 924(e)(1) of title 18, United explosives or firearms by convicted felons); made by this section shall take effect 180 States Code, is amended— and’’. days after the date of enactment of this Act. (1) by striking ‘‘violent felony or a serious (b) FIREARMS POSSESSION BY VIOLENT FEL- SEC. 606. INCREASING PENALTIES ON GUN KING- drug offense, or both,’’ and inserting ‘‘vio- ONS AND SERIOUS DRUG OFFENDERS.—Section PINS. lent felony, a serious drug offense or a viola- 924(a)(2) of title 18, United States Code, is (a) INCREASING THE PENALTY FOR ENGAGING tion of section 922(g)(1), or a combination of amended— IN AN ILLEGAL FIREARMS BUSINESS.—Section such offenses,’’; and (1) by striking ‘‘Whoever’’ and inserting 924(a)(2) of title 18, United States Code, is (2) by adding at the end the following: ‘‘No ‘‘(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), amended by inserting ‘‘, or willfully violates more than two convictions for violations of any person who’’; and section 922(a)(1),’’ after ‘‘section 922’’. section 922(g)(1) shall be considered in deter- (2) by adding at the end the following: (b) SENTENCING GUIDELINES INCREASE FOR ‘‘(B) Notwithstanding any other provision mining whether a person has three previous CERTAIN VIOLATIONS AND OFFENSES.—Pursu- convictions for purposes of this subsection.’’. of law, the court shall not grant a proba- ant to its authority under section 994(p) of tionary sentence for such a violation to a title 28, United States Code, the United SEC. 613. SERIOUS JUVENILE DRUG TRAF- person who has more than 1 previous convic- FICKING OFFENSES AS ARMED CA- States Sentencing Commission shall— REER CRIMINAL ACT PREDICATES. tion for a violent felony (as defined in sub- (1) review and amend the Federal sen- section (e)(2)(B)) or a serious drug offense (as Section 924(e)(2)(C) of title 18, United tencing guidelines to provide an appropriate defined in subsection (e)(2)(A)), committed States Code, is amended by inserting ‘‘or se- enhancement for a violation of section under different circumstances.’’. rious drug offense’’ after ‘‘violent felony’’. 922(a)(1) of title 18, United States Code; and SEC. 603. INCREASED PENALTIES FOR POS- (2) review and amend the Federal sen- SEC. 614. FORFEITURE OF FIREARMS USED IN SESSING OR TRANSFERRING STO- CRIMES OF VIOLENCE AND FELO- LEN FIREARMS. tencing guidelines to provide additional sen- NIES. tencing increases, as appropriate, for of- (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 924 of title 18, (a) CRIMINAL FORFEITURE.—Section 982(a) United States Code, is amended— fenses involving more than 50 firearms. of title 18, United States Code, is further (1) in subsection (a)— The Commission shall promulgate the amended by adding at the end the following: (A) in paragraph (2), by striking ‘‘(i), (j),’’; amendments provided for under this sub- ‘‘(10) The court, in imposing a sentence on and section as soon as is practicable in accord- a person convicted of any crime of violence (B) by adding at the end the following: ance with the procedure set forth in section (as defined in section 16 of this title) or any ‘‘(8) Whoever knowingly violates sub- 21(a) of the Sentencing Act of 1987, as though felony under Federal law, shall order that section (i) or (j) of section 922 shall be fined the authority under that Act had not ex- the person forfeit to the United States any under this title, imprisoned not more than 15 pired. firearm (as defined in section 921(a)(3) of this years, or both.’’; SEC. 607. SERIOUS RECORDKEEPING OFFENSES title) used or intended to be used to commit (2) in subsection (i)(1), by striking ‘‘10’’ and THAT AID GUN TRAFFICKING. or to facilitate the commission of the of- inserting ‘‘15’’; and Section 924(a)(3) of title 18, United States fense.’’. (3) in subsection (l), by striking ‘‘10’’ and Code, is amended by striking the period and (b) DISPOSAL OF PROPERTY.—Section 981(c) inserting ‘‘15’’. inserting ‘‘; but if the violation is in relation of title 18, United States Code, is amended by (b) SENTENCING COMMISSION.—The United to an offense under subsection (a)(6) or (d) of adding at the end the following flush sen- States Sentencing Commission shall amend section 922, shall be fined under this title, tence: the Federal sentencing guidelines to reflect the amendments made by subsection (a). imprisoned not more than 10 years, or ‘‘Any firearm forfeited pursuant to sub- both.’’. SEC. 604. INCREASED MANDATORY MINIMUM section (a)(1)(H) of this section or section PENALTIES FOR USING A FIREARM SEC. 608. TERMINATION OF FIREARMS DEALER’S 982(a)(10) of this title shall be disposed of by TO COMMIT A CRIME OF VIOLENCE LICENSE UPON FELONY CONVIC- the seizing agency in accordance with law.’’. OR DRUG TRAFFICKING CRIME. TION. (c) AUTHORITY TO FORFEIT PROPERTY Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, Section 925(b) of title 18, United States UNDER SECTION 924(d).—Section 924(d) of title is amended— Code, is amended by striking ‘‘until any con- 18, United States Code, is amended by adding (1) in subsection (c)(1)(A)— viction pursuant to the indictment becomes at the end the following: (A) in clause (ii), by striking ‘‘and’’ at the final’’ and inserting ‘‘until the date of any ‘‘(4) Whenever any firearm is subject to end; conviction pursuant to the indictment’’. forfeiture under this section, the Secretary

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of the Treasury shall have the authority to (b) BACKGROUND CHECKS.—Section 842 of ‘‘(A) for failure to prevent the sale or seize and forfeit, in accordance with the pro- title 18, United States Code, is further transfer of explosive materials to a person cedures of the applicable forfeiture statute, amended by adding at the end the following: whose receipt or possession of the explosive any property otherwise forfeitable under the ‘‘(q)(1) A licensed importer, licensed manu- materials is unlawful under this section; or laws of the United States that was involved facturer, or licensed dealer shall not transfer ‘‘(B) for preventing such a sale or transfer in or derived from the crime of violence or explosive materials to any other person who to a person who may lawfully receive or pos- drug trafficking crime described in sub- is not a licensee under section 843 of this sess explosive materials.’’. section (c) in which the forfeited firearm was title unless— (c) ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS.—Section used or carried.’’. ‘‘(A) before the completion of the transfer, 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Preven- (d) 120-DAY RULE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE FOR- the licensee contacts the national instant tion Act (18 U.S.C. 922 note) is amended— FEITURE.—Section 924(d)(1) of title 18, United criminal background check system estab- (1) in subsection (f), by inserting ‘‘or explo- States Code, is amended by adding ‘‘adminis- lished under section 103(d) of the Brady sive materials’’ after ‘‘firearm’’; and trative’’ after ‘‘Any’’ in the last sentence. Handgun Violence Prevention Act; (2) in subsection (g), by inserting ‘‘or that (e) SECTION 3665.—Section 3665 of title 18, ‘‘(B)(i) the system provides the licensee receipt of explosive materials by a prospec- United States Code, is amended— with a unique identification number; or tive transferee would violate section 842(i) of (1) by redesignating the first undesignated ‘‘(ii) 5 business days (meaning a day on such title, or State law,’’ after ‘‘State law,’’. paragraph as subsection (a)(1) and the second which State offices are open) have elapsed (d) REMEDY FOR ERRONEOUS DENIAL OF EX- undesignated paragraph as subsection (a)(2); since the licensee contacted the system, and PLOSIVE MATERIALS.— and the system has not notified the licensee that (1) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 40 of title 18, (2) by adding at the end the following: the receipt of explosive materials by such United States Code, is amended by inserting ‘‘(b) The forfeiture of property under this other person would violate subsection (i) of after section 843 the following: section, including any seizure and disposi- this section; ‘‘§ 843A. Remedy for erroneous denial of ex- tion of the property and any related adminis- ‘‘(C) the transferor has verified the iden- plosive materials trative or judicial proceeding, shall be gov- tity of the transferee by examining a valid ‘‘Any person denied explosive materials erned by the provisions of section 413 of the identification document (as defined in sec- pursuant to section 842(q)— Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and tion 1038(d)(1) of this title) of the transferee ‘‘(1) due to the provision of erroneous in- Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853), except for containing a photograph of the transferee; formation relating to the person by any subsection 413(d) which shall not apply to and State or political subdivision thereof, or by forfeitures under this section.’’. ‘‘(D) the transferor has examined the per- the national instant criminal background SEC. 615. SEPARATE LICENSES FOR GUNSMITHS. mit issued to the transferee pursuant to sec- check system established under section 103 (a) Section 921(a)(11) of title 18, United tion 843 of this title and recorded the permit of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention States Code, is amended to read as follows: number on the record of the transfer. Act; or ‘‘(11) The term ‘dealer’ means (A) any per- ‘‘(2) If receipt of explosive materials would ‘‘(2) who was not prohibited from receipt of son engaged in the business as a firearms not violate section 842(i) of this title or explosive materials pursuant to section dealer, (B) any person engaged in the busi- State law, the system shall— 842(i), ‘‘(A) assign a unique identification number ness as a gunsmith, or (C) any person who is may bring an action against the State or po- a pawnbroker. The term ‘licensed dealer’ to the transfer; and litical subdivision responsible for providing means any dealer who is licensed under the ‘‘(B) provide the licensee with the number. the erroneous information, or responsible for ‘‘(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the provisions of this chapter.’’. denying the transfer, or against the United transfer of explosive materials between a li- (b) Section 921(a) of title 18, United States States, as the case may be, for an order di- censee and another person if on application Code, is amended by redesignating para- recting that the erroneous information be graphs (12) through (33) as paragraphs (14) of the transferor, the Secretary has certified corrected or that the transfer be approved, through (35), and by inserting after para- that compliance with paragraph (1)(A) is im- as the case may be. In any action under this practicable because— graph (11) the following: section, the court, in its discretion, may ‘‘(A) the ratio of the number of law en- ‘‘(12) The term ‘firearms dealer’ means any allow the prevailing party a reasonable at- forcement officers of the State in which the person who is engaged in the business of sell- torney’s fee as part of the costs.’’. transfer is to occur to the number of square ing firearms at wholesale or retail. (2) TECHNICAL AMENDMENT.—The section miles of land area of the State does not ex- ‘‘(13) The term ‘gunsmith’ means any per- analysis for chapter 40 of title 18, United ceed 0.0025; son, other than a licensed manufacturer, li- States Code, is amended by inserting after ‘‘(B) the business premises of the licensee censed importer, or licensed dealer, who is the item relating to section 843 the fol- at which the transfer is to occur are ex- engaged in the business of repairing firearms lowing: tremely remote in relation to the chief law or of making or fitting special barrels, ‘‘843A. Remedy for erroneous denial of explo- enforcement officer (as defined in section stocks or trigger mechanisms to firearms.’’. sive materials.’’. 922(s)(8)); and (c) Section 923(a)(3) of title 18, United (e) REGULATIONS.— States Code is amended to read as follows: ‘‘(C) there is an absence of telecommuni- cations facilities in the geographical area in (1) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 6 months ‘‘(3) If the applicant is a dealer who is— after the date of the enactment of this Act, ‘‘(A) a dealer in destructive devices or am- which the business premises are located. ‘‘(4) If the national instant criminal back- the Secretary of the Treasury shall issue munition for destructive devices, a fee of ground check system notifies the licensee final regulations with respect to the amend- $1,000 per year; that the information available to the system ments made by subsection (a). ‘‘(B) a dealer in firearms who is not a deal- does not demonstrate that the receipt of ex- (2) NOTICE TO STATES.—On the issuance of er in destructive devices, a fee of $200 for 3 plosive materials by such other person would regulations pursuant to paragraph (1), the years, except that the fee for renewal of a violate subsection (i) or State law, and the Secretary of the Treasury shall notify the valid license shall be $90 for 3 years; or licensee transfers explosive materials to States of the regulations so that the States ‘‘(C) a gunsmith, a fee of $100 for 3 years, such other person, the licensee shall include may consider revising their explosives laws. except that the fee for renewal of a valid li- in the record of the transfer the unique iden- (f) LICENSES AND USER PERMITS.—Section cense shall be $50 for 3 years.’’. tification number provided by the system 843(a) of title 18, United States Code, is SEC. 616. PERMITS AND BACKGROUND CHECKS with respect to the transfer. amended— FOR PURCHASES OF EXPLOSIVES. ‘‘(5) If the licensee knowingly transfers ex- (1) by inserting ‘‘, including fingerprints (a) PERMITS FOR PURCHASE OF EXPLOSIVES plosive materials to such other person and and a photograph of the applicant’’ before IN GENERAL.—Section 842 of title 18, United knowingly fails to comply with paragraph (1) the period at the end of the first sentence; States Code, is amended— of this subsection with respect to the trans- and (1) by amending subparagraphs (A) and (B) fer, the Secretary may, after notice and op- (2) by striking the second sentence and in- of subsection (a)(3) to read as follows: portunity for a hearing, suspend for not serting, ‘‘Each applicant for a license shall ‘‘(A) to transport, ship, cause to be trans- more than 6 months or revoke any license pay for each license a fee established by the ported, or receive any explosive materials; or issued to the licensee under section 843 and Secretary that shall not exceed $300. Each ‘‘(B) to distribute explosive materials to may impose on the licensee a civil fine of not applicant for a permit shall pay for each per- any person other than a licensee or per- more than $5,000. mit a fee established by the Secretary that mittee.’’; and ‘‘(6) Neither a local government nor an em- shall not exceed $100.’’. (2) in subsection (b)— ployee of the Federal Government or of any (g) PENALTIES.—Section 844 of title 18, (A) by adding ‘‘or’’ at the end of paragraph State or local government, responsible for United States Code, is amended— (1); providing information to the national in- (1) by redesignating subsection (a) as sub- (B) by striking ‘‘; or’’ at the end of para- stant criminal background check system section (a)(1); and graph (2) and inserting a period; and shall be liable in an action at law for dam- (2) by inserting after subsection (a)(1) the (C) by striking paragraph (3). ages— following new paragraph:

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00044 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13120 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 ‘‘(2) Any person who violates section 842(q) ‘‘(C)(i) includes a finding that such person immigrant visa may receive a waiver from shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for represents a credible threat to the physical the requirements of subsection (i)(5)(B), if— not more than 5 years, or both.’’. safety of such intimate partner or child; or ‘‘(i) the individual submits to the Attorney (h) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments ‘‘(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the General a petition that meets the require- made by subsections (a), (b), (c), (d), and (g) use, attempted use, or threatened use of ments of subparagraph (C); and shall take effect 18 months after the date of physical force against such intimate partner ‘‘(ii) the Attorney General approves the pe- enactment of the Act. or child that would reasonably be expected tition. SEC. 617. PERSONS PROHIBITED FROM RECEIV- to cause bodily injury; ‘‘(B) Each petition under subparagraph (B) ING OR POSSESSING EXPLOSIVES. ‘‘(9) who has been convicted in any court of shall— (a) DISTRIBUTION OF EXPLOSIVES.—Section a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence; ‘‘(i) demonstrate that the petitioner has 842(d) of title 18, United States Code, is or resided in the United States for a continuous amended— ‘‘(10) who has been adjudicated delin- period of not less than 180 days before the (1) in paragraph (5), by striking ‘‘or’’ at the quent.’’. date on which the petition is submitted end; (c) DEFINITION.—Section 841 of title 18, under this paragraph; and (2) in paragraph (6), by striking the period United States Code, is amended by adding at ‘‘(ii) include a written statement from the and inserting ‘‘or who has been committed to the end the following: embassy or consulate of the petitioner, au- a mental institution;’’; and ‘‘(r)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), thorizing the petitioner to acquire explosives (3) by adding at the end the following: ‘misdemeanor crime of domestic violence’ and certifying that the alien would not, ab- ‘‘(7) being an alien— means an offense that— sent the application of subsection (i)(5)(B), ‘‘(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the ‘‘(A) is a misdemeanor under Federal or otherwise be prohibited from such an acqui- United States; or State law; and sition under subsection (i). ‘‘(B) except as provided in subsection (q)(2), ‘‘(B) has, as an element, the use or at- ‘‘(C) The Attorney General shall approve a has been admitted to the United States tempted use of physical force, or the threat- petition submitted in accordance with this under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is ened use of a deadly weapon, committed by a paragraph, if the Attorney General deter- defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigra- current or former spouse, parent, or guard- mines that waiving the requirements of sub- tion and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. ian of the victim, by a person with whom the section (i)(5)(B) with respect to the peti- 1101(a)(26))); victim shares a child in common, by a person tioner— ‘‘(8) has been discharged from the Armed who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with ‘‘(i) would be in the interests of justice; Forces under dishonorable conditions; the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, and ‘‘(9) having been a citizen of the United or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, ‘‘(ii) would not jeopardize the public safe- States, has renounced his citizenship; parent, or guardian of the victim. ty.’’. ‘‘(10) is subject to a court order that— ‘‘(2)(A) A person shall not be considered to (e) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—Section 845 ‘‘(A) was issued after a hearing of which have been convicted of such an offense for of title 18, United States Code, is amended by such person received actual notice, and at purposes of this chapter, unless— adding at the end the following: which such person had an opportunity to ‘‘(i) the person was represented by counsel ‘‘(d) Notwithstanding any other provision participate; in the case, or knowingly and intelligently of this section, no person convicted of a mis- ‘‘(B) restrains such person from harassing, waived the right to counsel in the case; and demeanor crime of domestic violence may stalking, or threatening an intimate partner ‘‘(ii) in the case of a prosecution for an of- ship or transport any explosive materials in of such person or child of such intimate part- fense described in this paragraph for which a interstate or foreign commerce or to receive ner or person, or engaging in other conduct person was entitled to a jury trial in the ju- or possess any explosive materials which that would place an intimate partner in rea- risdiction in which the case was tried— have been shipped or transported in inter- sonable fear of bodily injury to the partner ‘‘(I) the case was tried by a jury; or state or foreign commerce.’’. or child; and ‘‘(II) the person knowingly and intel- TITLE VII—PUNISHING GANG VIOLENCE ‘‘(C)(i) includes a finding that such person ligently waived the right to have the case AND DRUG TRAFFICKING TO MINORS represents a credible threat to the physical tried by jury, by guilty plea or otherwise. safety of such intimate partner or child; or SEC. 701. INCREASED MANDATORY MINIMUM ‘‘(B) A person shall not be considered to PENALTIES FOR USING MINORS TO ‘‘(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the have been convicted of such an offense for DISTRIBUTE DRUGS. use, attempted use, or threatened use of purposes of this chapter if the conviction has Section 420 of the Controlled Substances physical force against such intimate partner been expunged or set aside, or is an offense Act (21 U.S.C. 861) is amended— or child that would reasonably be expected for which the person has been pardoned or (1) in subsection (b), by striking ‘‘one to cause bodily injury; has had civil rights restored (if the law of year’’ and inserting ‘‘3 years’’; and ‘‘(11) has been convicted in any court of a the applicable jurisdiction provides for the (2) in subsection (c), by striking ‘‘one misdemeanor crime of domestic violence; or loss of civil rights under such an offense) un- year’’ and inserting ‘‘5 years’’. ‘‘(12) has been adjudicated delinquent.’’. less the pardon, expungement, or restoration SEC. 702. INCREASED MANDATORY MINIMUM (b) POSSESSION OF EXPLOSIVES.—Section of civil rights expressly provides that the PENALTIES FOR DISTRIBUTING 842(i) of title 18, United States Code, is person may not ship, transport, possess, or DRUGS TO MINORS. amended— receive firearms. Section 418 of the Controlled Substances (1) in paragraph (3), by striking ‘‘or’’ at the ‘‘(s) ‘Adjudicated delinquent’ means an ad- Act (21 U.S.C. 859) is amended— end; and judication of delinquency based upon a find- (1) in subsection (a), by striking ‘‘one (2) by adding at the end the following: ing of the commission of an act by a person year’’ and inserting ‘‘3 years’’; and ‘‘(5) who, being an alien— prior to his or her eighteenth birthday that, (2) in subsection (b), by striking ‘‘one ‘‘(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the if committed by an adult, would be a serious year’’ and inserting ‘‘5 years’’. United States; or drug offense or violent felony (as defined in SEC. 703. INCREASED MANDATORY MINIMUM ‘‘(B) except as provided in subsection (q)(2), section 3559(c)(2) of this title), on or after the PENALTIES FOR DRUG TRAFFICKING has been admitted to the United States date of enactment of this paragraph.’’. IN OR NEAR A SCHOOL OR OTHER under a non-immigrant visa (as that term is (d) ALIENS ADMITTED UNDER NONIMMIGRANT PROTECTED LOCATION. defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigra- VISAS.—Section 842 is amended by adding at Section 419 of the Controlled Substances tion and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. the end the following: Act (21 U.S.C. 860) is amended— 1101(a)(26))); ‘‘(r)(1) For purposes of this subsection— (1) in subsection (a), by striking ‘‘one ‘‘(6) who has been discharged from the ‘‘(A) the term ‘alien’ has the same meaning year’’ and inserting ‘‘3 years’’; and Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; as in section 101(a)(3) of the Immigration and (2) in subsection (b), by striking ‘‘three ‘‘(7) who, having been a citizen of the Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(3)); and years’’ each place that term appears and in- United States, has renounced his citizenship; ‘‘(B) the term ‘nonimmigrant visa’ has the serting ‘‘5 years’’. ‘‘(8) who is subject to a court order that— same meaning as in section 101(a)(26) of the SEC. 704. CRIMINAL STREET GANGS. ‘‘(A) was issued after a hearing of which Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 521 of title 18, such person received actual notice, and at 1101(a)(26)). United States Code, is amended— which such person had an opportunity to ‘‘(2) Sections (d)(7)(B) and (i)(5)(B) do not (1) in subsection (a), in the second undesig- participate; apply to any alien who has been lawfully ad- nated paragraph— ‘‘(B) restrains such person from harassing, mitted to the United States under a non- (A) by striking ‘‘5’’ and inserting ‘‘3’’; stalking, or threatening an intimate partner immigrant visa, if that alien is a foreign law (B) by inserting ‘‘, whether formal or infor- of such person or child of such intimate part- enforcement officer of a friendly foreign gov- mal’’ after ‘‘or more persons’’; and ner or person, or engaging in other conduct ernment entering the United States on offi- (C) in subparagraph (A), by inserting ‘‘or that would place an intimate partner in rea- cial law enforcement business. activities’’ after ‘‘purposes’’; sonable fear of bodily injury to the partner ‘‘(3)(A) Any individual who has been admit- (2) in subsection (b), by inserting after ‘‘10 or child; and ted to the United States under a non- years’’ the following: ‘‘and such person shall

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00045 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13121 be subject to the forfeiture prescribed in sec- interstate or foreign commerce, with intent priate enhancement for a person who, in vio- tion 412 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 to— lating section 522 of title 18, United States U.S.C. 853)’’; ‘‘(i) distribute the proceeds of any unlawful Code, recruits, solicits, induces, commands, (3) in subsection (c)— activity; or or causes another person residing in another (A) in paragraph (2), by striking ‘‘and’’ at ‘‘(ii) otherwise promote, manage, establish, State to be or to remain a member of a the end; carry on, or facilitate the promotion, man- criminal street gang, or crosses a State line (B) in paragraph (3), by striking the period agement, establishment, or carrying on, of with the intent to recruit, solicit, induce, at the end and inserting a semicolon; any unlawful activity; and command, or cause another person to be or (C) by adding at the end the following: ‘‘(B) after travel or use of the mail or any to remain a member of a criminal street ‘‘(3) that is a violation of section 522 (relat- facility in interstate or foreign commerce gang. ing to the recruitment of persons to partici- described in subparagraph (A), performs, at- tempts to perform, or conspires to perform SEC. 707. GANG-RELATED WITNESS INTIMIDA- pate in criminal gang activity); TION AND RETALIATION. ‘‘(4) that is a violation of section 844, 875, an act described in clause (i) or (ii) of sub- or 876 (relating to extortion and threats), paragraph (A); (a) INTERSTATE TRAVEL TO ENGAGE IN WIT- section 1084 (relating to gambling), section shall be fined under this title, imprisoned NESS INTIMIDATION OR OBSTRUCTION OF JUS- 1955 (relating to gambling), or chapter 73 (re- not more than 10 years, or both. TICE.—Section 1952 of title 18, United States Code, is amended— lating to obstruction of justice); ‘‘(2) CRIMES OF VIOLENCE.—Whoever— ‘‘(5) that is a violation of section 1956 (re- ‘‘(A) travels in interstate or foreign com- (1) by redesignating subsections (b) and (c) lating to money laundering), to the extent merce or uses the mail or any facility in as subsections (c) and (d), respectively; and that the violation of such section is related interstate or foreign commerce, with intent (2) by inserting after subsection (a) the fol- to a Federal or State offense involving a con- to commit any crime of violence to further lowing: trolled substance (as that term is defined in any unlawful activity; and ‘‘(b) Whoever travels in interstate or for- section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act ‘‘(B) after travel or use of the mail or any eign commerce with intent by bribery, force, (21 U.S.C. 802)); or facility in interstate or foreign commerce intimidation, or threat, directed against any ‘‘(6) that is a violation of section described in subparagraph (A), commits, at- person, to delay or influence the testimony 274(a)(1)(A), 277, or 278 of the Immigration tempts to commit, or conspires to commit of or prevent from testifying a witness in a and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1324(a)(1)(A), any crime of violence to further any unlaw- State criminal proceeding or by any such 1327, or 1328) (relating to alien smuggling); ful activity; means to cause any person to destroy, alter, and shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for or conceal a record, document, or other ob- ‘‘(7) a conspiracy, attempt, or solicitation not more than 20 years, or both, and if death ject, with intent to impair the object’s integ- to commit an offense described in para- results shall be sentenced to death or be im- rity or availability for use in such a pro- graphs (1) through (6).’’. prisoned for any term of years or for life. ceeding, and thereafter engages or endeavors (b) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMEND- ‘‘(b) DEFINITIONS.—In this section: to engage in such conduct, shall be fined MENT.—Section 3663(c)(4) of title 18, United ‘‘(1) CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE.—The term under this title or imprisoned not more than States Code, is amended by striking ‘‘chap- ‘controlled substance’ has the meaning given 10 years, or both; and if serious bodily injury ter 46’’ and inserting ‘‘section 521, chapter that term in section 102(6) of the Controlled (as defined in section 1365 of this title) re- 46,’’. Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802(6)). sults, shall be so fined or imprisoned for not SEC. 705. INCREASE IN OFFENSE LEVEL FOR PAR- ‘‘(2) STATE.—The term ‘State’ means a more than 20 years, or both; and if death re- TICIPATION IN CRIME AS A GANG State of the United States, the District of sults, shall be so fined and imprisoned for MEMBER. Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, any term of years or for life, or both, and (a) DEFINITION OF CRIMINAL STREET GANG.— or possession of the United States. may be sentenced to death.’’. In this section, the term ‘‘criminal street ‘‘(3) UNLAWFUL ACTIVITY.—The term ‘un- (b) CONSPIRACY PENALTY FOR OBSTRUCTION gang’’ has the meaning given that term in lawful activity’ means— OF JUSTICE OFFENSES INVOLVING VICTIMS, section 521(a) of title 18, United States Code. ‘‘(A) any business enterprise involving WITNESSES, AND INFORMANTS.—Section 1512 (b) AMENDMENT OF SENTENCING GUIDE- gambling, liquor on which the Federal excise of title 18, United States Code, is amended by LINES.— tax has not been paid, narcotics or con- adding at the end the following: (1) IN GENERAL.—Pursuant to its authority trolled substances, or prostitution offenses under section 994(p) of title 28, United States ‘‘(j) Whoever conspires to commit any of- in violation of the laws of the State in which fense defined in this section or section 1513 of Code, the United States Sentencing Commis- the offense is committed or of the United sion shall amend the Federal Sentencing this title shall be subject to the same pen- States; alties as those prescribed for the offense the Guidelines to provide an appropriate en- ‘‘(B) extortion, bribery, arson, burglary if hancement for any Federal offense described commission of which was the object of the the offense involves property valued at not conspiracy.’’. in section 521(c) of title 18, United States less than $10,000, assault with a deadly weap- Code, if the offense was both committed in on, assault resulting in bodily injury, shoot- (c) WITNESS RELOCATION SURVEY AND connection with, or in furtherance of, the ac- ing at an occupied dwelling or motor vehicle, TRAINING PROGRAM.— tivities of a criminal street gang and the de- or retaliation against or intimidation of wit- (1) SURVEY.—The Attorney General shall fendant was a member of the criminal street nesses, victims, jurors, or informants, in vio- survey all State and selected local witness gang at the time of the offense. lation of the laws of the State in which the protection and relocation programs to deter- (2) FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED.—In deter- offense is committed or of the United States; mine the extent and nature of such programs mining an appropriate enhancement under or and the training needs of those programs. this section, the United States Sentencing ‘‘(C) any act that is indictable under sec- Not later than 270 days after the date of the Commission shall give great weight to the tion 1956 or 1957 of this title or under sub- enactment of this section, the Attorney Gen- seriousness of the offense, the offender’s rel- chapter II of chapter 53 of title 31.’’. eral shall report the results of this survey to ative position in the criminal gang, and the (b) AMENDMENT OF SENTENCING GUIDE- Congress. risk of death or serious bodily injury to any LINES.— (2) TRAINING.—Based on the results of such person posed by the offense. (1) IN GENERAL.—Pursuant to its authority survey, the Attorney General shall make (c) CONSTRUCTION WITH OTHER GUIDE- under section 994(p) of title 28, United States available to State and local law enforcement LINES.—The amendment made by subsection Code, the United States Sentencing Commis- agencies training to assist those law enforce- (b) shall provide that the increase in the of- sion shall amend chapter 2 of the Federal ment agencies in developing and managing fense level shall be in addition to any other Sentencing Guidelines to provide an appro- witness protection and relocation programs. adjustment under chapter 3 of the Federal priate increase in the offense levels for trav- (3) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.— Sentencing Guidelines. eling in interstate or foreign commerce in There are authorized to be appropriated to SEC. 706. INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN TRAVEL OR aid of unlawful activity. carry out paragraphs (1) and (2) for fiscal TRANSPORTATION IN AID OF CRIMI- (2) UNLAWFUL ACTIVITY DEFINED.—In this year 2000 not to exceed $500,000. NAL GANGS. subsection, the term ‘‘unlawful activity’’ has (d) FEDERAL-STATE COORDINATION AND CO- (a) TRAVEL ACT AMENDMENT.—Section 1952 the meaning given that term in section OPERATION REGARDING NOTIFICATION OF of title 18, United States Code, is amended to 1952(b) of title 18, United States Code, as INTERSTATE WITNESS RELOCATION.— read as follows: amended by this section. (1) ATTORNEY GENERAL TO PROMOTE INTER- ‘‘§ 1952. Interstate and foreign travel or trans- (3) SENTENCING ENHANCEMENT FOR RECRUIT- STATE COORDINATION.—The Attorney General portation in aid of racketeering enterprises MENT ACROSS STATE LINES.—Pursuant to its shall engage in activities, including the es- ‘‘(a) PROHIBITED CONDUCT AND PENALTIES.— authority under section 994(p) of title 28, tablishment of a model Memorandum of Un- ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Whoever— United States Code, the United States Sen- derstanding under paragraph (2), which pro- ‘‘(A) travels in interstate or foreign com- tencing Commission shall amend the Federal mote coordination among State and local merce or uses the mail or any facility in Sentencing Guidelines to provide an appro- witness interstate relocation programs.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00046 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13122 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 (2) MODEL MEMORANDUM OF UNDER- those around them is so overpowering The second area my amendment STANDING.—The Attorney General shall es- they will commit acts of violence on deals with will encourage the Justice tablish a model Memorandum of Under- their neighbors, on children, in our Department to prosecute gun crimes. standing for States and localities that en- schools, even on the houses of worship We have found at hearings recently, gage in interstate witness relocation. Such a in their own communities. We have to model Memorandum of Understanding shall unfortunately, that many times the include a requirement that notice be pro- face the fact that there are people Federal Government has not been pros- vided to the jurisdiction to which the reloca- whose greed for money and power lead ecuting the crimes already on the tion has been made by the State or local law them to poison our children with drugs books dealing with guns. I think that enforcement agency that relocates a witness and destroy our families through vio- is very, very sad and it is a very seri- to another State who has been arrested for lence. ous problem. or convicted of a crime of violence as de- We cannot simply allow those who So this amendment will require the scribed in section 16 of title 18, United States would destroy our communities to do Justice Department to establish a pro- Code. so. We must deter them, if we can, by gram in each United States Attorney’s (3) BYRNE GRANT ASSISTANCE.—The Attor- making them aware that there will be ney General is authorized to expend up to 10 Office where one or more Federal pros- percent of the total amount appropriated severe punishment for their crimes, ecutors are designated to prosecute under section 511 of subpart 2 of part E of the and we have to impose those punish- firearms offenses and to coordinate Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act ments if they commit those crimes. We with State and local authorities for of 1968 for purposes of making grants pursu- must do this if we are to protect our more effective enforcement, and permit ant to section 510 of that Act to those juris- children and our grandchildren. U.S. attorneys to use Federal prosecu- dictions that have interstate witness reloca- Mr. Chairman, the amendment I offer tors to prosecute State firearms of- tion programs and that have substantially adds provisions to H.R. 1501 to ensure fenses in State courts. followed the model Memorandum of Under- that those who violate our laws and en- standing. The third area that my amendment danger our children and families will deals with will help ensure that juve- (4) GUIDELINES AND DETERMINATION OF ELI- be punished. My amendment will in- GIBILITY.—The Attorney General shall estab- niles do not gain access to firearms and lish guidelines relating to the implementa- crease the punishment for criminals explosives illegally. It does this by in- tion of paragraph (4) and shall determine, who put guns in the hands of our chil- creasing the maximum penalty that dren and those who commit crimes consistent with such guidelines, which juris- may be imposed on juveniles who pos- using firearms. It will increase the pen- dictions are eligible for grants under para- sess a firearm. Also, it increases the graph (4). alties on juveniles who use guns to maximum penalty for illegal posses- (d) BYRNE GRANTS.—Section 501(b) of the harm others. It will increase the pun- sion of a firearm with the intent to Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act ishments on gang members who com- take it to a school zone or knowing of 1968 is amended— mit serious crimes and those who push (1) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of para- that another juvenile will take it to a drugs on to our young people, and it graph (25); school zone. will punish those who put explosives (2) by striking the period at the end para- It increases the maximum penalty graph (26) and inserting ‘‘; and’’; and into the hands of juveniles. We have to send a message. If some- that may be imposed on adults who il- (3) by adding at the end the following: legally transfer firearms to juveniles. ‘‘(27) developing and maintaining witness one intends to harm our children, we security and relocation programs, including will punish them and punish them se- b 1415 providing training of personnel in the effec- verely. It provides for a mandatory min- tive management of such programs.’’. Here is what this amendment will do. imum sentence for an adult who ille- (e) DEFINITION.—As used in this section, It will strengthen the present Federal gally transfers a firearm to a juvenile, the term ‘‘State’’ includes the District of Co- juvenile justice system by providing knowing that a juvenile intended to lumbia, Puerto Rico, and any other common- increased protection for the commu- wealth, territory, or possession of the United take it to a school zone or commit a se- nity and holding juveniles accountable States. rious violent felony. for their actions. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House I must say at the outset that there It enacts a new provision to prohibit Resolution 209, the gentleman from are very few children who are ever any person under 21 from sending, re- Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM), and a Member tried in a juvenile setting in the Fed- ceiving, or possessing explosive mate- opposed, each will control 20 minutes. eral system, but those on Indian res- rials. Under current law, the distribu- The Chair recognizes the gentleman ervations and elsewhere are, and this tion of explosive materials to persons from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). particular provision, this set of provi- under 21 is prohibited, but there is no Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I sions, deal only with that limited Fed- punishment for the possession of such yield myself such time as I may con- eral role and not with the State or the materials for persons under 21. sume. grant program we have been discussing The next area this amendment deals Mr. Chairman, over the last several under the underlying bill. with will help deter criminals from weeks there has been a great deal of de- The amendment strengthens the ju- gaining access to firearms and explo- bate about ways to protect our chil- venile system that the Federal Govern- sives by prohibiting the distribution dren from violence. We have talked ment deals with by the following: Giv- through the Internet and elsewhere of about provisions to keep guns out of ing prosecutors rather than the courts information relating to explosives, de- the hands of criminals, and that is the the discretion to charge a juvenile al- structive devices, and weapons of mass right thing to do. We have talked about leged to have committed certain seri- destruction when the person distrib- the influence of our culture on kids and ous felonies as an adult or as a juve- uting the information knows that the how we can encourage responsibility nile, which is consistent with what recipient intends to use them to harm from those who have the potential to most States do; by making fines and others; and by requiring common car- influence them, and that is the right supervised release which are not pres- riers like UPS or FedEx or a number of thing to do. ently sentencing options in the Federal others, or other contract carriers such We have talked about reaching kids system available for adjudicated as trucking companies, to report the early when they make mistakes so that delinquents in addition to probation theft or loss of a firearm it is shipping they will not fall into a spiral of in- and detention; and by providing that within 48 hours after the theft or loss is creasing crime, and that is also the the records of juvenile proceedings are discovered. right thing to do. public records to the same extent that Another part of this amendment will We must also not lose sight of the the records of adult criminal pro- help to ensure that criminals are held fact that there have always been and ceedings will be public and that such accountable for their use of firearms always will be people who ignore the records are to be made available for of- and explosives and to deter others from laws. We have to admit that there are ficial purposes, including disclosure to illegally possessing and using these people in this country whose hate for victims and school officials. weapons by increasing the penalties for

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00047 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13123 the discharge of a firearm in a school were committed by a person as a part Because what the gentleman from zone and by providing for mandatory of a criminal street gang and adds new Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) is doing is re- minimum punishments for the knowing crimes for which the increase may be pealing the Federal law that requires discharge of a firearm in a school zone. applied; among them, crimes involving States to identify and improve dis- It increases those punishments if phys- extortion and threats, gambling, ob- proportionate incarceration of mem- ical harm results, and it allows for the struction of justice, money laundering, bers of minority groups, a law that has death penalty if somebody uses a gun and alien smuggling. been in place since 1992 and has had to kill in a school zone. It addresses the problem of gang-re- more than 40 States develop programs Secondly, it increases the maximum lated witness intimidation by making to reduce minority involvement in the penalties for transporting stolen fire- it a crime to travel in interstate or for- juvenile justice system. It is now under arms in interstate commerce and for eign commerce with the intent to delay attack. selling, receiving, and possessing stolen or influence the testimony of a witness The resulting Republican juvenile firearms. in a State criminal proceeding by brib- justice bill with this amendment would It increases the mandatory minimum ery, force, intimidation, or threat. It repeal the existing mandate, effec- penalty for discharging a firearm dur- allows for the death penalty if a person tively closing our collective eyes to ra- ing a Federal crime of violence or drug kills another to keep them from testi- cial disparity in the juvenile justice trafficking crime and establishes a fying in such a setting. system. Consider with me for one mo- mandatory minimum penalty if the I think this is extremely important. ment, although African American juve- firearm is used to injure another per- We have a lot of witness intimidation, niles ages 10 through 17 are 15 percent son. unfortunately, in this country today, of the population, they are 26 percent It increases the maximum punish- and we do not have good law provisions of the arrests, 32 percent of the refer- ment for making false statements to a at the Federal level to deal with it. rals to juvenile court, 41 percent of the licensed dealer in order to illegally ob- We also have in this legislation pro- juveniles detained in delinquency tain a firearm if the purchase was to visions encouraging a memorandum of cases, 46 percent of juveniles in correc- enable another person to carry or pos- understanding as sort of a suggested tional institutions, and 52 percent of sess it in the commission of a serious format, a model format that States juveniles transferred to adult criminal violent felony. It provides for a min- might use for witness protection pro- courts after judicial hearings. In short, imum mandatory punishment if the grams among the States to avoid some African American youths start off person procuring the firearm did so for complications we have seen such as ex- overrepresented in juvenile justice, and a juvenile. isted in my State of Florida recently the problem gets worse at every step. It prohibits Federal firearm licensees with respect to it and Puerto Rico. With this amendment, it will continue to continue to operate their licensed These are tough provisions, all of to proceed in the wrong direction. businesses after a felony conviction. them that I have outlined. They are in- This policy of creating a long-term It increases the penalty for persons tended to be. But the harm that is custody rate for African American who illegally deal in firearms. being done through illegal guns, youth five times the rate of white It raises the maximum penalty for through explosives, and through drugs youth must stop in the House of Rep- knowingly transporting, shipping, pos- cannot be ignored. Our young people resentatives. I suggest to my col- sessing, or receiving a firearm with an deserve nothing but our fullest efforts leagues that we do not even address the obliterated or altered serial number. to protect our children at home, at problems but plan to make them far It establishes, for the first time, school, and during play. worse. criminal background checks prior to I ask all of my colleagues to support In addition, and I will conclude on the sale of explosive materials by non- this amendment. this note, the McCollum amendment licensed purchasers by licensed dealers. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance requires the implementation of the These checks, similar to the Brady of my time. armed criminal apprehension program, gun background checks, will reduce the The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman similar to the one in Richmond, Vir- availability of explosives to felons. from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) seek to con- ginia that has been described by a This is another instant-check type of trol the time in opposition? United States district court judge as system, but this one is designed as it Mr. SCOTT. I do, Mr. Chairman. expensive, unnecessary, racially bi- should be for explosives and the sale of The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog- ased, and a misuse of the Federal court explosives. nizes the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. system. We all know from the Columbine ex- SCOTT) for 20 minutes. Now, if we do nothing else here perience that there were not just guns Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield today, I urge that we reject the McCol- involved there, but there were cer- such time as he may consume to the lum amendment, which will begin to tainly explosives as well. gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- increase the racial disparity of young- In the last provisions in my amend- YERS), the ranking member of the com- sters that are caught up in this process ment, we address further the punish- mittee. in a huge way, more than two dozen ment of gang violence and drug traf- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, this criminal penalties. It is the wrong way. ficking to minors and witness intimi- proposal by the gentleman from Flor- It is too much. It was not accepted dation. It will increase, this amend- ida (Mr. MCCOLLUM), the subcommittee even in his own committee. ment, the existing mandatory min- chairman, actually openly reneges on Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I imum penalty that is imposed on his pledge to pursue a substantive bi- yield myself such time as I might con- adults convicted of using minors to dis- partisan juvenile justice bill. sume. tribute drugs. He is now, with one amendment, Mr. Chairman, I simply want to say It will increase the existing manda- loading this bill, H.R. 1501, up with to the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. tory minimum penalty that must be more than two dozen criminal pen- CONYERS), with all due respect, I under- imposed on adults convicted of distrib- alties, including the death sentence. It stand he disagrees with this amend- uting drugs to minors. is now clear that these provisions were ment, but a couple of things he pointed It will increase the existing manda- rejected and certainly not supported out I do not think were quite accurate, tory minimum penalty that must be during the orderly subcommittee proc- and I am sure unintentionally so. imposed on any person convicted of dis- ess that he himself chaired. The subcommittee considered H.R. tributing, possessing with the intent to I want to bring forward now one part 1501, but the full committee has never distribute, or manufacturing drugs in of this that cannot be unremarked as considered any of this process, nor did or within 100 feet of a school zone. we go forward. I want to thank Senator any of the provisions of this amend- It will increase the punishment in PAUL WELLSTONE and David Cole for ment get considered in this Congress as current law for certain crimes if they their assistance. we brought this bill to the floor, as the

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00048 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13124 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 gentleman knows, the main bill, with would come and say we are here to Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 all of these other provisions to be dis- strengthen and take over the juvenile minutes to the gentlewoman from Cali- cussed and debated in amendment proc- justice system? fornia (Ms. LOFGREN). ess. So they have not been rejected by Let me tell my colleagues one final Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, here the committee. They just never have reason that we do not have a juvenile it is, it is one of the poison pills for been brought up or considered. justice system at the Federal level, and this bill, H.R. 1501. I think we all knew Secondly, I believe the gentleman, if that is that we have not done an espe- on the Committee on the Judiciary he would carefully read my amend- cially good job of handling the Federal that the amendment being offered by ment, which is a pretty thick thing, I adult justice system. Here we go, say- the gentleman from Florida (Mr. know, would find there is no mention ing, those of us who say that we believe MCCOLLUM) could not become law and in here of the Office of Juvenile Jus- in States rights, my Republican col- should not become law. That is why tice’s delinquency prevention programs leagues in particular, would have us H.R. 1501 was devised with the broad where the racial mandate, the racial now come and say we know more about bipartisan support that it had, at least, composition mandate exist. We do not juvenile justice than local commu- until the slaughter in Columbine High touch that in my amendment. I know nities know about it. School. That incident changed our there is concern about that. There may This is a bad idea. It is a revolu- common understanding of what we be other provisions in somebody else’s tionary idea. We should not march into should do here in America about juve- amendment, but this amendment does this territory without knowing exactly nile crime. not touch that. I just want to be sure what we are doing. We should reject This amendment would make it easi- everybody understands that. this amendment. er to prosecute a 13-year-old as an Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I adult. And, actually, to be clear, it of my time. yield myself such time as I may con- would make it easier for the less than Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, may I in- sume. 300 children prosecuted in the Federal quire how much time is remaining on Mr. Chairman, I simply have to re- system to be prosecuted as adults. So both sides? spond to the gentleman from North let us be more specific. It would make The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Carolina (Mr. WATT). I do not know if it easier to prosecute a 13-year-old Na- from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has 9 the gentleman has really seriously read tive American child as an adult. minutes remaining. The gentleman chapter 403 of the United States Code What has that got to do with the from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) has 16 min- with respect to criminal law. But chap- murders at Columbine High School? I utes remaining. ter 403 is nothing but about a juvenile am sorry, who are we fooling with this? Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 justice system at the Federal level. There are assorted other portions of minutes to the gentleman from North the amendment, things about the b 1445 Carolina (Mr. WATT). Internet and guns, which I think are Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. There are several hundred juveniles serious issues, but the boys at Colorado Chairman, I hope my colleagues were who are adjudicated as delinquents bought their guns through gun shows, listening carefully to the comments every year in the Federal system, most not on the Internet. There are things that were made by the gentleman from of them on Indian reservations, and about enhancing the penalties if a fire- Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) in support of there are several hundred more that arm was discharged in a school. Well, his proposed amendment. are prosecuted in the Federal system those two boys who killed those kids in What he said is that his proposed for violent crimes. So there certainly is school in Colorado, they committed amendment would strengthen the Fed- a juvenile justice system, and it cer- suicide. So I do not think that the 5- eral juvenile justice system. It is that tainly needs improvement, and that is year enhanced penalty would do one point that I want to spend my time what the first section of my amend- darn thing to deter those two boys talking about, because my question to ment does. from the slaughter that they wrought my colleagues is: What Federal juve- And the administration has re- on their classmates and the families. nile justice system is he talking about? quested every single line and every sin- What we need to do is to focus on the We do not have one juvenile counselor gle word that is in my amendment re- ability of a child to commit such dam- at the Federal level. We do not have lated to improving this system. The age if a child is so disturbed that he or one juvenile judge at the Federal level. Clinton administration has requested she wants to kill others. And that focus We do not have one juvenile facility in this. The gentleman’s own party Presi- is what we are avoiding through this the Federal system. What juvenile jus- dent has requested it. really very disturbing setup, consid- tice system is the gentleman from Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. ering amendments calculated to sink Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) talking about? Chairman, will the gentleman yield? this bill, tomorrow’s bill, and so the What he is talking about is federal- Mr. MCCOLLUM. I yield to the gen- American people will not get what they izing juvenile justice for the first time tleman from North Carolina. are asking for: Sensible, modest, mod- in this country. Now, why is there no Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. erate gun safety measures that will Federal juvenile justice system? For Chairman, would the gentleman tell prevent future tragedies such as those the same reason we do not have any me, is he proposing that we apply the all the parents in America observed Federal school system in this country. same juvenile justice system at the saw and cared about at Columbine High We do not have a Federal juvenile jus- Federal level that we are applying on School and cared deeply to cure. tice system, because, historically, Indian reservations? Is that what the Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I throughout the whole history of this gentleman is proposing, instead of al- yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from country, juvenile justice has been han- lowing local communities to handle Ohio (Mr. CHABOT), a member of the dled as a State and local issue. They their own juvenile justice system? committee. have juvenile courts. They have juve- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I re- Mr. CHABOT. Mr. Chairman, it is un- nile judges. They have juvenile facili- claim my time to say that we have a fortunate that violence occurs ties. They have counselors. They deal Federal juvenile justice system and it throughout our Nation every day. In with local juvenile issues as a local applies to any juvenile brought into our classrooms, in schoolyards and issue, which it is and should be. the system, whether on an Indian res- playgrounds, children are all too often Local communities are closer to our ervation or not. It is all the same. It is at the mercy of violent criminals. juveniles and the children, just like the this Federal juvenile justice system Nationally, we are faced with stag- local school systems, are closer to ju- that we are applying here and amend- gering statistics. The Bureau of Justice veniles and the system. ing in chapter 403. statistics report that for 1997 there So is not it ironic that my colleagues Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance were 2500 juveniles arrested for murder. who profess to believe in States rights of my time. That is a 90 percent increase from 1986.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00049 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13125 Our Nation’s youth are now among the sions that we take from the terrible youth violence and we are going to be most likely to fall victim to violent Columbine shootings of just a few trying to address several of those over crimes, crimes often committed, unfor- weeks ago. They are very sensitive the course of this day as we debate this tunately, by their own peers. that their political leaders do not use juvenile justice bill. We are all familiar To me, these numbers indicate an this tragedy as an excuse to pass some with what some of those issues are. epidemic of youth violence, one which legislation that will really do very lit- Certainly violence in the media is a must be confronted head on. We must tle, if nothing, to solve the problem of factor. pass stronger laws that target and pun- youth violence in our country today. We have seen more than 3,000 studies ish violent juvenile offenders. Stiffer The truth is that under 300 kids per on this issue, the majority of which sentencing guidelines, trying for vio- year in the entire country, most of have concluded there is a relationship. lent juveniles as adults and opening them Native Americans, are even pros- Drugs is a factor and certainly dys- those juveniles’ criminal records would ecuted under the Federal laws. So the functional families. Indeed, one of the be a good start. The amendment of the truth is amendments like this will do highest correlates of youth violence in gentleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOL- nothing to stop the kind of youth vio- any community is the incidence of LUM) would enact some of these impor- lence that we saw at Columbine and fatherlessness in that community. We tant provisions. that we have seen so tragically at high are going to try to address some of For example, this amendment gives schools across this country. these things. Obviously, the issue of Federal prosecutors rather than judges I suppose that we could send Dylan fatherlessness in the community we the discretion to prosecute violent ju- Klebold and Eric Harris to jail for cannot address, but I do rise in support venile felons as adults. This provision extra time, if they were not dead at of this amendment. would send a clear message to juveniles this point. I suppose we could give There are several features of this that if they commit serious crimes, them the death penalty for shooting all amendment that I think are good. It they will do adult time. No more slaps these people on the school grounds of gives prosecutors rather than the on the wrist, no more short sentences Columbine, but that would be little courts the discretion to charge a juve- followed by a quick release. So I com- comfort to the parents of the students nile alleged to have committed a fel- mend the gentleman for offering this and the families of the teacher who ony. It makes fines and supervised re- important amendment. were killed there. Instead, our con- lease available. It also, very impor- Over 6,000 kids were expelled for stituents demand that we take action tantly, provides that the records of bringing guns to schools during the in this Congress to help prevent youth these juvenile proceedings will become 1996–97 school year, but only nine of violence in a way that will work across public records and available to the them were prosecuted by the Clinton the country for the many tens of thou- community. This is a very, very impor- administration, by the U.S. Attorney’s sands of kids in this country who need tant factor. The amendment is a big one. It has a Office under this administration. That help every year. lot of features, but I think we need to is a travesty. That is why we need different pro- take a comprehensive look at the prob- Mr. Chairman, regardless of what we grams to help across the board. We lem that we are trying to address, accomplish here today, we must ac- need to reauthorize the COPS program, which is the terrible problem of youth knowledge that the juvenile violence we need to fund school safety pro- violence, and look at all these different problem in this country is not simply grams, we need prevention block areas. And, yes, there are some weak- the product of laws or lack thereof. It grants, we need to do the things that nesses in our criminal justice system, is a societal one. Our children are inun- will actually help instead of giving the but the McCollum amendment here is a dated every day with negative images, American people the illusion that be- good amendment that tries to shore up violent messages, and much less than cause we are increasing sentences and those weaknesses and strengthen the positive role models, unfortunately. doing a few things that will work underlying bill, and I encourage my Parenting has become a struggle in a around the edges on a few Indian res- colleagues to support the amendment. country where the government taxes ervations that we are doing something. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 an inordinate amount of a family’s The other thing that my constituents minutes to the gentlewoman from Cali- paycheck and forces parents to spend and our constituents are demanding is fornia (Ms. WATERS). more time at work and less time rais- common sense child gun safety legisla- Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, today ing and supervising their own kids. tion; legislation that will stop the mul- we are going to witness a lot of rhet- We should not lose sight of the fact tiple round ammunition cartridges oric about what causes juvenile crimes. that most of our parents are doing a that Klebold and his colleague used; If we were to accept the majority’s po- good job, and an overwhelming major- legislation that will stop people from sition, one would think that it is ac- ity of the kids in this country are good getting guns at gun shows, because cess to the Power Rangers that kill our kids who go to school to learn and to these kids got all four of their guns children, not the access to guns. make friends and to participate in from a gun show, not from the Inter- The rhetoric is tired. Let us be clear. positive activities. We could help these net; legislation that will have child We know that prevention works. De- families by cutting their taxes and safety locks on guns. This is the kind spite this common knowledge, we have helping parents spend more time with of common sense legislation that be- witnessed time and time again the Re- their own kids. gins to help, that we can use as a legis- publicans’ failure to properly fund edu- There are a lot of things we can do, lative tool in conjunction with our cation, Head Start programs and other and I commend the gentleman from community action that is non- programs we know that work. Instead, Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) and the other legislative that we so desperately need the majority wants to rush our chil- members of the committee for a job in this solution. dren from the crib to the jails. well done and look forward to the de- Please, let us not marginalize this The McCollum amendment allows bate on this particularly important issue, let us do something that will Federal prosecutors rather than judges issue to our country. really help. the discretion to try children as adults, Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I lowers the age to 13 in some cases at minutes to the gentlewoman from Col- yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from which children can be tried as adults in orado (Ms. DEGETTE). Florida (Mr. WELDON). the Federal system, and broadens the Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I am Mr. WELDON of Florida. Mr. Chair- scope of Federal crimes for which juve- from Colorado, and Columbine High man, I thank the gentleman for yield- niles can be tried as adults. School is just a few blocks from my ing me this time, and I rise in support This provision would mean that more district. My constituents in Colorado of the McCollum amendment. children would be placed in adult jails, and our constituents across the coun- I think we all agree that there are and children are not specifically pro- try are very sensitive about the conclu- multiple factors playing a role in hibited from contact with adults. This

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00050 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13126 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 places children at serious risk of abuse The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman may President Clinton was inaugurated and and assault and flies in the face of cur- offer his amendment at any time up began the initiative on crime to work rent studies which indicate that trying until the time that the question is with the States. The States have the children as adults increases rather posed on the underlying McCollum answer. than decreases youth crime. amendment. Another interesting statistic: Juve- The McCollum amendment allows Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I would nile arrest rate for all violence is down children to come in contact with adults just notify the chair that I would like 37 percent in the past 5 years. And last- in adult jails in the Federal system. to introduce the amendment at the end ly, the percentage of violent crimes at- Children as young as 13 years old would of the debate. tributable to juveniles is at its lowest be allowed to be in the same jail cell Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 seconds to point since 1975. with adults. Allowing contact between the gentleman from Florida (Mr. Let us follow the lead of the States. juveniles and adults in adult jails HASTINGS). Defeat this amendment. would place children at risk of assault Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Mr. Chair- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield and abuse, as children are 8 times more man, I thank the gentleman for yield- the balance of the time to the gentle- likely to commit suicide, 5 times more ing me the time. woman from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman likely to be sexually assaulted, and Mr. Chairman, I say to my col- leagues, listen up. Federalizing juve- from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE) is recog- twice as likely to be assaulted by even 1 nile justice without federalizing with nized for 1 ⁄2 minutes staff in the adult jails than in juvenile Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. funds the resources necessary to hire facilities. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for The McCollum amendment imposes additional judges, prosecutors, proba- yielding me the time. new mandatory minimum sentences for tion officers, and for the very first time I guess we ask the question again, children who are convicted of certain Federal juvenile counselors, this is ab- whose side are we on as we work in the offenses. These new draconian manda- solutely ridiculous. It has no impact United States Congress? Let me asso- tory minimums would likely impose study with it. They cannot do this and ciate my remarks with that of the gen- do it safely. harsher penalties on youthful offenders tleman from Florida (Mr. HASTINGS) than adult criminals guilty of the same Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, how and my colleague the gentleman from much time do we have remaining? offenses under the current law. North Carolina (Mr. WATT). We are cre- Let me say this. Because I am an Af- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ating something with nothing. 3 rican American woman, I have had to from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) has 3 ⁄4 min- What we really should be doing is pay attention to the disproportionate utes remaining. supporting H.R. 1501. I would like to 1 sentencing of minorities. When we take Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 ⁄4 share very briefly with my colleagues a look at what is going on according to minutes to the gentleman from Massa- what we are talking about here. We are the September 1998 Juvenile Justice chusetts (Mr. DELAHUNT). simply talking about a system that re- Bulletin, it was estimated in two Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I sponds to juveniles where they find States that one in seven African Amer- think it is important to focus on the them. They are children. And we have ican males would be incarcerated be- acknowledgment by the Chair of the to find a way to rehabilitate children. fore the age of 18. subcommittee that these particular We have an amendment that takes provisions apply only to Native Ameri- b 1445 away from the underlying premises of cans who reside on reservations for all the bill that we can, in fact, rehabili- This statistic is compared with one intents and purposes. tate children. In the system that we in 125 white males. And then I come I think it is very, very important are trying to create by this amend- here today and find that there is a bill that the American people do not be ment, we are not really putting into being produced that talks about put- misled into thinking that these meas- place the kinds of resources that are ting more Indian children, more Native ures will have any impact on the rest needed, juvenile judges, prosecutors American children, in jail because of of the United States. I submit that who are sensitive to juveniles, coun- the way the Federal system is con- there will not be an iota’s worth of dif- seling officers, individuals in schools structed. ference in terms of the violence in the who are sensitive to juveniles, a men- According to the September 1998 Ju- streets if this amendment should pass. tal health system that intervenes and venile Justice Bulletin, minority youth They should not be misled. assesses juveniles as to whether or not represented 68 percent of the juvenile I am just surprised. I was unaware of they need mental health services. population in secured detention and 68 the fact that there is a substantial The American Pediatrics Association percent of those in secured institu- problem of juvenile crime on Native says, ‘‘We do not support any amend- tional environments such as training American reservations. I would be will- ments. We support H.R. 1501.’’ Because schools, even though minority youth ing to hear from the Chair of the sub- they know what happens when they in- constituted about 32 percent of the committee if there had ever been a carcerate children with adults. One, population at the time of the study. I hearing on a Native American reserva- they increase crime, they endanger could go on and on and on. tion. Has there been any consultation children, and they certainly federalize Let me just say that I am absolutely with State’s attorneys that deal with State juvenile laws. worried and concerned that we are Native American reservations? What we are hoping for, Mr. Chair- going in the direction of placing more This is about imposing the most se- man, is that we can come to our senses, minority youth in prisons and in the vere sanctions on Native Americans, pass H.R. 1501 without any amend- Federal system. It is not right and we mandatory sentences, the death pen- ments, provide the resources for our should not allow it. alties, remedies that have been proven children, and begin to really rehabili- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I re- over and over again do not work. Let tate children and give them a future in serve the balance of my time. us follow the example of the States and America. PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY maybe, maybe, we will have some good Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. SCOTT. Parliamentary inquiry, results. yield myself the balance of the time. Mr. Chairman. For example, because of the leader- Mr. Chairman, I want to clarify a few The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will ship by the States, not by the Federal things. First of all, I have heard some state his inquiry. Government, not by Washington, this of the other side say some things that Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I have an is what has occurred. The juvenile are simply not in this amendment. amendment that has been made in homicide rate has dropped by more Probably they do not understand that order by the rule to the McCollum than 50 percent since 1993. And for but I want to make it very, very clear amendment. Do I have to offer that be- those of my colleagues that are not that there is nothing in the amend- fore the time runs out? aware of that, that was the date that ment I am proposing today that will in

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00051 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13127 any way allow a child to be put in the where they should be increased, espe- The Clerk will designate the amend- same cell with an adult. There never cially in the firearms section. Fifteen ment to the amendment. has been and, as a matter of fact, never of the sections in this amendment were The text of the amendment to the will be under any amendment or offer- proposed by the President himself in amendment is as follows: ing that I propose. addition to those dealing with the Part A amendment No. 8 offered by Mr. In fact, this amendment explicitly question of Federal juvenile justice. SCOTT to Part A amendment No. 6 offered by sets forth in the Federal system where So I strongly urge the adoption of MCCOLLUM: no child may be incarcerated with an this amendment. Strike title II. adult under any circumstances. Mr. FORBES. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong Redesignate succeeding titles and sections, It is also wrong to say, as some have support of the McCollum amendment which and amend the table of contents accordingly. just alleged, that the Federal juvenile amongst other things increases and mandates The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House procedures only apply to Indian res- severe penalties for violating Federal firearms Resolution 209, the gentleman from ervations. This is only one area of Fed- regulation. Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) and a Member op- eral jurisdiction for juveniles. All Fed- According to the Bureau of Justice Statis- posed each will control 10 minutes. eral drug laws and all Federal gun tics, 82 percent of Federal offenders convicted The Chair recognizes the gentleman laws, crimes, can be prosecuted any- of firearms offenses in addition to other more from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT). where in the United States that they serious offenses such as homicide or robbery, Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield occur in the Federal system if a juve- used or carried a firearm during another crime. myself such time as I may consume. nile is involved and the juvenile may 36 percent of Federal offenders involved with Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to be prosecuted in that system maybe as firearms had been incarcerated in the past for the Hyde-McCollum amendment before an adult or otherwise. at least 13 months. us and to offer an amendment to strike It is also wrong to suggest that there The fact is too many prisoners are violent or a major portion of it. is nothing in this amendment that repeat criminals and if they’ve misused a fire- Unfortunately, the underlying deals with the Columbine situation. arm to commit a crime are likely to do in the amendment to the Hyde-McCollum The illegal possession of a firearm by future. amendment seeks to amend a bill con- somebody not licensed or allowed to Our first order of business if we are to pro- taining only sound bipartisan juvenile own a firearm certainly applies there, tect ourselves and our loved ones from adult justice policy by adding policies that and we increase the maximum penalty or juvenile violent criminals, armed with fire- have been shown to actually increase for that. We have a provision in here arms, must be restraining those criminals. crime and violence against the public for adults who illegally transfer a fire- Long term mandatory penalties are required to and the youth involved in policies arm to a juvenile knowing that the ju- do the job. which were specifically rejected by the Under the McCollum, amendment for exam- venile intends to take it to a school sponsors of the amendment when we ple, the penalty for discharging a firearm in zone or to commit a serious, violent were working together to put together connection with a Federal crime of violence or felony, and quite a number of others. H.R. 1501. drug trafficking will be raised to 12 years, from But the one thing I want to point out One of the problems with the under- the existing 10. The bill also establishes a that is in this amendment and a lot of lying amendment is that it provides for mandatory minimum penalty of 15 years if you focus has been on the very first section trying more juveniles as adults with- discharge the weapon and cause injury to an- of a very comprehensive amendment out any judicial review. Under current other person during the commission of a that simply deals with improving the law, a judge must decide whether the crime. public interest requires a child to be Federal juvenile justice system, which Again, while I support the McCollum is a very small portion of this debate tried as an adult, with just very lim- Amendment, we should have gone a step fur- ited exceptions. today. The biggest thing that is in here ther. I offered an amendment that I hoped that has not been thought about a lot Now, there are numerous studies would have been made in order, that would which indicate that trying more juve- is the provision that requires a pros- have increased the penalty for discharging a ecutor, an assistant U.S. Attorney at niles as adults will probably result in firearm from 10 years to 25 years and im- them being treated more leniently in every U.S. Attorney’s office in the Na- posed a 30 year sentence for injuring another tion in any every district of this coun- an adult court and all of those studies person. show that the crime rate will increase try to be set aside to prosecute gun In addition, my amendment would have im- with new crimes being committed crimes. posed severe penalties of 10 years for pos- sooner and more likely to be violent. I want to put a chart up here that sessing a firearm during the commission of a Now, the judge in adult court is con- shows that in 1997, and I understand a crime and 20 years for brandishing for threat- fined to two options. He can put the comparable number last year, there ening individuals with the weapon. Similar pro- person on probation or he can lock that were over 6,000 juveniles expelled for vision, although not as severe, were passed person up with adult murderers, rob- possession of a firearm on school by the House in March of 1996 and exist in bers, and drug dealers. Juvenile court grounds. There could have been pros- Federal law. ecutions for the possession of guns on Empirical studies and common sense clearly judges have other options, and that is school grounds under Federal law this suggest, if we freed any significant number of why the juveniles coming out of the ju- year last year, et cetera, but the Fed- imprisoned felons tonight, we would have venile system are much less likely to eral Government only prosecuted a more murder and mayhem on the streets to- commit crime. If they treat a juvenile handful of them. I think in 1997, as an- morrow. Millions of violent crimes are averted as an adult for trial, if they are incar- other chart will show, there were only, each year by keeping convicted criminals be- cerated, they will be locked up with like, five that were prosecuted. And hind bars. adults. And it does not take a brain last year I think there were 13 prosecu- Keep firearms felons behind bars—support surgeon to know that they will not tions. the McCollum Amendment. only be endangered but they will be Where has the U.S. Attorney Gen- The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate more likely to commit a crime when it eral’s office and U.S. Attorney’s offices on the amendment offered by the gen- is all over. been under this administration in pros- tleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) Mr. Chairman, in March we had hear- ecuting Federal gun laws dealing with has expired. ings on what we need to do to reduce children in schools when we have all of It is now in order to consider Amend- juvenile crime and delinquency. And these guns having been possessed in ment No. 8 printed in Part A of House H.R. 1501, without the Hyde-McCollum those schools and only a handful of Report 106–186. amendment, was the result. No one prosecutions versus the 6,000 or so that AMENDMENT NO. 8 OFFERED BY MR. SCOTT TO presented any coherent information to we know were recorded? AMENDMENT NO. 6 OFFERED BY MR. MC COLLUM lead us to believe that trying more ju- So the amendment I am offering does Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I offer an veniles as adults was a responsible ac- a lot of things. It increases penalties amendment to the amendment. tion.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00052 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13128 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Now, one of the other problems this The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman more that involves the use or threat- underlying amendment needs to be from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) is recog- ened use of physical force against an- struck by my amendment is that, with- nized for 10 minutes. other. out my amendment, we will be federal- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I So we are talking only about very se- izing juvenile crime. yield myself such time as I may con- rious crimes that a juvenile would Now, Chief Justice Rehnquist has sume. Mr. Chairman, I strongly oppose commit, and then we are allowing dis- talked for years about the problem of this amendment. It would strike the cretion in the prosecutor’s hands that federalizing crime. And I am sure he title of the amendment, the portion of is common in the State systems all would look at this bill and say, there the amendment which I am offering, over the country if there is a Federal they go again. Obviously, if we had which deals with improving the Fed- prosecutor dealing with those limited pursued the regular order, the provi- eral juvenile justice system, and strike number of Federal cases of juveniles sion that federalizes juvenile crime it all together. We do have a juvenile that come before us in our Federal would not have been in the underlying justice system at the Federal level. court system. This is long overdue. The bill. Only a few hundred are ever tried in a amendment offered by the gentleman Mr. Chairman, the underlying bill given year, juveniles in the Federal from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) should be de- also contains numerous mandatory system, but it is antiquated, it is out of feated, and we should let an antiquated minimum sentences. Mandatory min- date. Federal juvenile system be improved. imum sentences have been studied. In For example, juvenile judges simply Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance fact, the Rand study considered manda- do not have the discretion that most of my time. tory minimums, regular sentences, and State court judges have in their sen- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 drug treatment. And for every $1 mil- tencing. They have fewer options with minutes to the gentleman from New lion that they would spend, they could juveniles, and we would give them the York (Mr. MEEKS). reduce crime by 13 with mandatory full range of discretion that one would Mr. MEEKS of New York. Mr. Chair- minimums. The $1 million could reduce expect all courts to have in dealing man, I rise to strongly support the crime by 27 with traditional law en- with juveniles. The amendment of the Scott amendment and adamantly forcement. Or they could reduce crime gentleman from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) against the McCollum amendment. The by 100 if they used drug treatment. would strike that provision that the McCollum, for example, this amend- Obviously, mandatory minimums administration has urged on us for a ment would negatively impact children came up last and almost a waste of number of years. by placing children at risk of assault money and, therefore, would not have With regard to the question that and abuse in adult jails. The McCollum survived the regular legislative proc- seems to be the central focus of his dis- amendment allows Federal prosecutors ess. cussion with me over time and includ- rather than judges the discretion to try b 1500 ing today, and that is with respect to children as adults. The McCollum H.R. 1501, without the Hyde-McCol- the question about the authority of amendment would lower the age to 13 lum amendment, constitutes respon- trying a juvenile as an adult, what we in some cases at which children can be sible, effective juvenile justice legisla- are doing is not mandating that any ju- tried as adults in the Federal system. tion, the product of extensive hearings venile who happens to come into con- This amendment, the McCollum and thoughtful deliberations within tact with the Federal system be tried amendment broadens the scope of Fed- the Subcommittee on Crime of the as an adult, and I want to make it per- eral crimes in which juveniles can be House Committee on the Judiciary. It fectly clear that this proposal I am of- tried as adults. Simply put, more chil- is legislation which is unique because fering today has nothing to do with the dren will be placed in adult jails, and it was responsive to the problems and State juvenile systems, only those they will be as young as 13. I am extremely concerned because concerns of all of the experts who testi- handful of juveniles that may be tried the McCollum amendment will also fied and enjoys the full support of all of in the Federal system. But what we are make it easier to put more children, the subcommittee members. doing is taking away from the judges Mr. Chairman, remember we began the discretion they have today under and just tell it like it is, more black this process with two bipartisan bills, my amendment; that is, under the cur- and brown children in jail. Children of one in Judiciary, one in Education. rent law with my amendment we are color make up one-third of all children Both bills were drafted as a result of talking that discretion they have to nationwide, but two-thirds of all incar- extensive hearings, and now we are in decide which children are tried as cerated juveniles are considered ethnic the middle of participating in a polit- adults and which are not in the Federal minorities. African American youth ical charade where we consider slogans system and giving that to the prosecu- aged 10 to 17 constitutes 15 percent of and sound bites which might score well tors, which is the most common thing United States population in that age in political polls but never would have one finds in most of the States today. group, but they account for 26 percent made it through the regular legislative That is not an unreasonable thing to of juvenile arrests, 32 percent of delin- process. do, and they were only giving that dis- quency referrals to juvenile court, 41 Now in the wake of Littleton, Colo- cretion, by the way, up to the most se- percent of juvenile detained in delin- rado, and Conyers, Georgia, this sudden rious violent crimes that have been quency cases, 46 percent of juveniles in change in approach is both a spectacle committed by juveniles. correction institutions and 52 percent and an embarrassment. So it is in May, it is permissive, not of juveniles transferred to adult crimi- For these reasons, Mr. Chairman, I mandatory, it is a discretion being nal court after judicial proceedings. believe that the committee should re- given to prosecutors to try the juvenile Minority youth are much more likely ject the underlying Hyde-McCollum as an adult instead of the judge, which to end up in prisons with adult offend- amendment so we do not counteract is present in most State juvenile sys- ers. In 1995, nearly 10,000 juvenile cases the effective, sensible and proven poli- tems, and it is limited only to very se- were transferred to adult criminal cies in H.R. 1501 and replace them with rious crimes. Let me read the list: courts by judicial waiver. Of those pro- counterproductive proposals in the Murder, manslaughter, assault with ceedings, cases involving African pending Hyde-McCollum amendment. intent to commit murder or rape, ag- American children were 50 percent Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance gravated sexual abuse, abusive sexual more likely to be waived than cases in- of my time. contact, kidnapping, aircraft piracy, volving Caucasian. Mandatory min- The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman robbery, carjacking, extortion, arson imum sentencing will enable our chil- from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) seek or any attempt, conspiracy or solicita- dren to be at serious risk of abuse and time in opposition to the amendment? tion to commit one of those offenses, assault. This, the McCollum amend- Mr. MCCOLLUM. I do seek time in and any crime punishable by imprison- ment, goes against current studies opposition. ment for a maximum of 10 years or which indicate that trying children as

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00053 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13129 adults increases rather than decreases ber, and guess what he will want to be abused than their counterparts in juvenile fa- youth crime. Allowing contact between when he grows up? We know what he cilities. As a matter of fact, children in adult juveniles and adults in adult jails will want to be when he grows up. He jails or prisons have been shown to be five would make children eight times more will want to be a murderer, he will times more likely to be assaulted and eight likely to commit suicide, five times want to be a rapist, and he will want to times more likely to commit suicide than chil- more likely to be sexually assaulted be a robber, and that is what this dren in juvenile facilities in adult prisons. and twice as likely to be assaulted by amendment proposes to do. It wants to Judiciary Committee hearings have turned staff in adult than in juvenile facili- treat young 13-year-old kids as adults. up numerous instances of such abuse. In Iron- ties. Every single study in America that has ton, Ohio, a 15 year-old girl ran away from I support the Scott amendment. ever been done says it is counter- home overnight, then returned to her parents. By the McCollum amendment imposing new productive. This is politics and we got A juveile court judge put her in a county jail to mandatory minimum sentences for children to quit playing politics with the fu- ‘‘teach her a lesson.’’ The girl was sexually as- who are convicted of certain offenses—man- tures of our children. saulted by a deputy jailer on her fourth night datory minimums will impose harsher penalties Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield in jail. In Boise, Idaho, 17 year-old Christopher on youthful offenders than adult criminals such time as he may consume to the Petermen was held in adult jail for failing to guilty of the same offenses under current law. gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- pay $73 in traffic fines. Over a 14 hour period, For example, under the McCollum amend- YERS). he was tortured and finally murdered by other ment any juvenile who discharges a firearm in Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise prisoners in the cell. In LaGrange, Kentucky, a school zone would get a minimum 10-year in support of the Scott amendment. 15-year-old Robbie Horn was confined in an sentence. An adult currently charged with the In the wake of a series of tragic incidents at adult facility for refusing to obey his mother. same offense would not be subject to the high schools in Colorado and Georgia, Demo- Soon after he was placed in jail he used his same mandatory penalty. crats and Republicans came together to craft own shirt to hang himself. Let me remind you that mandatory sen- H.R. 1501. We put aside the politics of poll- Repeated studies of prosecuting juveniles tences are expensive, unfair, and often inef- tested sound bites—‘‘do the crime do adult as adults indicates that rather than serving as fective. A 1997 Rand study shows that man- time;’’ mandatory minimums; ‘‘3 strikes you’re a deterrent to juveile crime prosecuting more datory minimum sentences are not cost effec- out’’—to hold thoughtful deliberations that juveniles as adults merely leads to greater and tive in reducing drug-related crimes. Even yielded a unique piece of legislation respon- more serious recidivism. This is because adult Chief Justice Rehnquist had criticized manda- sive to the concerns of experts in the field and jail facilities have little capacity to offer the tory minimum sentences as unduly harsh pun- supported by all members of the sub- educational, counseling, and mental health ishment for first-time offenders. We must help our children when they are committee, both Democrat and Republican. services needed to deal with juvenile offend- charged of a crime. We must provide edu- This is why I am deeply disappointed to see ers. cation and counseling services to rehabilitate the Republican majority abandon bipartisan- Other aspects of the Majority’s juvenile jus- them back into society. We must not write ship to play politics with juvenile justice; aban- tice proposals are just as misguided. For ex- them off! We must remember that they are still don orderly legislative process to pursue legis- ample, a Rand commission study showed that children and we must try harder to help them lation by ambush; and abandon its commit- mandatory minimum sentences reduced crime because they are the future. ment to the American people to follow the lead less and cost much more money when com- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I of special interests. pared to discretionary sentencing and release yield myself such time as I may con- How do we know the Republican Majority laws. Increased death penalties are also prob- sume. I just want to make it very has decided to play politics with juvenile jus- lematic—in addition to the increasing problem clear, and I do not know where this tice? They now advocate policies that just of prosecutor error, capital punishment dimin- idea of commingling children with weeks ago even they acknowledged lacked ishes the value of all life and could not begin adults in facilities, prison facilities, is merit. Listen to their own words. to deter suicide killers like those at Columbine coming from. There is no change in my On March 11, 1999 Crime Subcommittee High School. amendment to the current law with re- Chairman MCCOLLUM stated: ‘‘Taking con- The reality is that a continuum of services spect to prohibiting commingling. It sequences seriously is not a call for locking all aimed at-risk youth—such as teen pregnancy cannot happen. Under Federal law juveniles up, nor does it imply the housing of prevention, Head Start, recreational programs, today it is impermissible to mingle a juveniles, even violent hardened juveniles, drop-out prevention programs, summer jobs, juvenile with an adult. Whether that with adults. I, for one, am opposed to such drug treatment, mental health services, and juvenile is waiting for trial and sen- commingling.’’ education and treatment programs during in- tencing or even after a child has been On April 22, 1999 he repeated: ‘‘I believe carceration—are needed to significantly re- tried as an adult in an adult court and the bill we move today [represents] a balanced duced juvenile crime. This is the approach they are still under the legal age of 18, effort to strengthen juvenile justice systems so found in H.R. 1501, but is subsequently aban- they may not be housed with or com- that they are able to insure appropriate meas- doned by the Majority. mingled with adults. There is nothing ured consequences for delinquent acts of the If we are truly interested in juvenile justice in my amendment that would change most youthful offenders who because of their reform, we must begin by rejecting unprinci- that in any way, shape or form, and I age are amendable to being directed away pled amendments allowed by the Rule that want to make that again very clear. from later, more serious wrong doing.’’ would cut out the heart of this bill and stick to Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance Yet today, the Majority is pushing legislation the principles of H.R. 1501. This was a bill of my time. which tries more children as adults, houses produced by a bipartisan process and unani- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 more juveniles as adults, and imposes a mously approved by the Crime Subcommittee. minute to the gentleman from North whole slew of new mandatory minimum pen- In the wake of the recent school yard trage- Carolina (Mr. WATT). alties and death penalties. dies in Littleton, Colorado and Conyers, Geor- Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. What’s really extraordinary about these pro- gia, the American people deserve and expect Chairman, as difficult as we try to posals is just how meaningless they really are. reform. We cannot and should not allow false make this, it is not rocket science. We Fewer than 150 prosecutions in the federal arguments about ‘‘getting tough on crime’’ and know what works and what does not system each year, and such changes are like- prosecuting juveniles as adults to prevent us work. Every single study that has ever ly to affect only a small percentage of those from achieving these important goals. been done indicates that juveniles as cases. These proposals do not represent seri- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 adults and locking them up as adults ous attempts at legislation. Rather they are a minute to the gentlewoman from Cali- increases crime, does not decrease transparent attempt to legislate by sound bite fornia (Ms. WATERS). crime, and I thought we were here and kill a bill that they themselves agreed was Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I and today to talk about what decreases the best approach to juvenile justice. others who have taken to the floor to crime and what was effective. Housing juveniles in adult prison facilities speak about this attempt by the gen- Here is the thing. Lock up a 13-year- means more kids are likely to commit suicide, tleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) old with a murderer, a rapist and a rob- or be murdered or physically or sexually to open up the Federal system to youth

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00054 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 13130 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 and try them as adults is very serious Finally, Mr. Chairman, I will ask Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Mr. Chair- with us because of what we already unanimous consent at the end of the man, my colleague and I are from Flor- know about how the system works. Let time for the gentleman from Florida ida. Am I correct that Florida has a me continue with some of the statistics that I be able to ask unanimous con- law that allows for us to be able to that we have begun to roll out. Black sent to withdraw the amendment and prosecute juveniles who commit even youth are much more likely to end up go right to the vote on the McCollum the heinous crimes that the gentle- imprisoned as adult offenders. In 1995 amendment. I will make that unani- man’s measure calls for? If that is true, nearly 10,000 juvenile cases were trans- mous consent request at the end of his why, then, federalize this particular ferred to adult criminal court by judi- time. process? cial waiver. Of these proceedings, cases Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I So many times, I say to my col- involving black youth were 52 percent yield myself such time as I may con- league, we come to the floor saying, of all the children and adolescents sume. leave things in the hands of local au- waived to the adult court. Mr. Chairman. I will not consume by thorities. How is it all of a sudden the Youth Law Center, America’s assault any means all of it. I just want to re- Federal system is going to be better? on minority youth, the problem of over spond to a couple things that have been Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, re- representation of minority youth in said out here today. One of those con- claiming my time, I know that the gen- the justice system; we are telling the cerns, the issue of again this commin- tleman probably misunderstands my gentleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOL- gling question. There is no commin- amendment, because the gentleman LUM) aside from the problem with mi- gling at all that would be allowed in has been a former Federal judge and I nority youth we are exacerbating the this legislative proposal that I have. respect the gentleman a lot on this. problem for Native Americans. As my But I understand there are concerns The amendment I am proposing in no colleagues know, what they are doing that other Members on the other side way Federalizes those crimes that the is going to have a disproportionate im- of the aisle have with allowing prosecu- States are involved with. It does not pact on them, and let me just say that tors the discretion in these very seri- add any new dimension to Federal ju- minorities do fare worse in this system ous criminal cases in the Federal sys- risdiction. because they do not have the contacts, tem to try juveniles as adults. I find Where Federal law already allows for and people acting on their behalf and that to be one of those kinds of things prosecutions such as in drug cases and tweaking the system; Mr. MCCOLLUM, where we just have a disagreement be- in gun cases, which it does, there could he has used his influence to get off peo- cause most of the States have that op- be prosecutions of juveniles as adults if ple in the system who have committed tion for prosecutors. That is all my prosecutors decided. Today, as the gen- serious charges. Black youth and mi- amendment does, is to revise very old tleman knows, there could be prosecu- nority youth do not have that oppor- and antiquated Federal laws dealing tions of juveniles as adults in the Fed- tunity to have that kind of support. just with those limited handful of juve- eral system in those kinds of cases if Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 nile cases that come before the Federal the judges, Federal judges decide. seconds to the gentleman from Massa- system every year to revise those laws, So I am not really adding any new chusetts (Mr. DELAHUNT). crimes or going into the State jurisdic- Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I to let them comply with the State laws tions with my amendment, I say to the thank the gentleman for yielding this where there is often and most often a gentleman. I was very careful not to do time to me, and there is one provision prosecutor’s discretion allowed when that. So I am glad the gentleman that I do support, one out of all of the we deal with murder, rape, robbery, pointed that out, because it should be provisions that I support in the McCol- those really serious crimes, and only lum amendment, and that is the one with those, and it is discretionary clarified. I thank the gentleman for that designates an Assistant United again, and again no commingling. doing so. Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, will States Attorney to focus in on the And last, the gentleman from Massa- issue of guns. However, I say to the chusetts is making a point, we did not the gentleman yield? Mr. MCCOLLUM. I yield to the gen- gentleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOL- authorize any funding for an additional tleman from Massachusetts. LUM), what he fails to do in the amend- prosecutor in the underlying amend- Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I ment is to provide an authorization for ment dealing with prosecuting gun thank the gentleman for yielding. the funding for the additional Assist- crimes where we require a separate I would point out to the gentleman ant United States Attorney. Myself U.S. Attorney, Assistant U.S. Attor- that since 1993 there have been innu- and the former attorney general of the ney, to be set aside to prosecute those merable burdens deposited on United State of Arizona, who now serves in crimes. States Attorneys’ offices. If we are this body, the gentleman from Colo- b 1515 going to be really serious about the rado (Mr. UDALL) had that amendment But I did not intend that we hire a before, before the Committee on Rules, issue of guns and violence in a realistic new assistant U.S. prosecutor. The and it was not ruled in order, and I approach in terms of the appropriate would hope that the gentleman would amendment contemplates that every role for the Federal Government, I dare consider unanimous consent to adopt U.S. Attorney in this country set aside say a price tag of $8 million to save that amendment. one of the existing ones with no addi- lives, to reduce violence in our streets, Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield tional funds. That is what was done in is something that ought to occur. We myself the balance of the time. the Bush administration. A priority have got to pay for it. We cannot do it The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman was set among the existing prosecu- on the cheap, I say to my colleague from Virginia is recognized for 30 sec- tions in the country so that gun crime from Florida. onds. prosecutions had high priority, such a Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, re- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, the Hyde- high priority that I think should be claiming my time, I would say that the McCollum amendment was not sub- here with this administration to pros- Bush administration, the previous ad- jected to the regular process and there- ecute gun crimes as we have had so few ministration did this with the existing fore we do not know what is wrong prosecuted. resources and made it a priority. I with the present law in trying juve- That is the sole purpose of that pro- think that should be done first. I am niles as adults or what is wrong or why vision. No additional prosecutors are certainly willing to go with the gen- the mandatory minimums need to be necessary and no additional money tleman to add more prosecutors, gen- imposed. I point out on page 12, line 14 need be authorized in this setting. erally speaking, whether they are des- of the amendment there are changes in Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Mr. Chair- ignated or not. I think we do have a incarceration with adults where the man, will the gentleman yield? lower number of Federal prosecutors protections of juveniles are very seri- Mr. MCCOLLUM. I yield to the gen- and too few Federal judges, especially ously jeopardized. tleman from Florida. in Florida, my State, and there may be

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00055 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.001 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13131 an opportunity later on in this bill to Jenkins Norwood Shimkus Schakowsky Stenholm Vela´ zquez John Nussle Shows Scott Strickland Vento do something about that with some of Johnson (CT) Ortiz Shuster Serrano Stupak Visclosky the other amendments. But I respect Johnson, Sam Ose Simpson Sherman Sweeney Wamp the fact that the gentleman wants to Jones (NC) Oxley Skelton Sisisky Tanner Waters see more Federal prosecutors. That in Kelly Packard Smith (MI) Skeen Thompson (MS) Watt (NC) King (NY) Pallone Smith (TX) Slaughter Thornberry Waxman no way diminishes the fact that my Kingston Pascrell Smith (WA) Smith (NJ) Thurman Weygand amendment proposes that an existing Knollenberg Peterson (MN) Spence Snyder Tiahrt Wilson prosecutor in every Federal district be Kolbe Peterson (PA) Stabenow Souder Tierney Wise set aside to prosecute gun cases and be Kuykendall Petri Stearns Spratt Towns Woolsey LaHood Phelps Stump Stark Udall (CO) Wynn given that as a top priority with exist- Lampson Pickering Sununu NOT VOTING—4 ing resources. That is what my amend- Largent Pitts Talent ment does; that is what should be done. Latham Pomeroy Tancredo Brown (CA) Houghton Lazio Porter Tauscher Davis (IL) Kasich Mr. Chairman, I oppose the Scott Leach Portman Tauzin amendment, I urge that it be defeated, Lewis (CA) Quinn Taylor (MS) b 1542 if it is not withdrawn. If the effort is Lewis (KY) Radanovich Taylor (NC) Messrs. COBURN, BONILLA, going to be made to withdraw it, I will Linder Ramstad Terry FOSSELLA, and DOOLITTLE changed LoBiondo Regula Thomas not oppose it. Lowey Reyes Thompson (CA) their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- Lucas (KY) Reynolds Thune Mr. BACHUS, Mrs. CUBIN, Mr. ance of my time. Lucas (OK) Riley Toomey UPTON, and Mr. MORAN of Kansas Luther Roemer Traficant changed their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I ask Maloney (CT) Rogan Turner unanimous consent that the amend- Mascara Rogers Udall (NM) So the amendment was agreed to. ment be withdrawn. McCarthy (NY) Rohrabacher Upton The result of the vote was announced The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection McCollum Ros-Lehtinen Vitter as above recorded. McCrery Rothman Walden The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to notice to the request of the gentleman from McHugh Roukema Walsh Virginia? McInnis Royce Watkins to the Committee, it is now in order to There was no objection. McIntosh Ryan (WI) Watts (OK) consider amendment No. 31 printed in McIntyre Ryun (KS) Weiner Part A of House Report 106–186. The CHAIRMAN. The amendment is McKeon Salmon Weldon (FL) withdrawn. Mica Sanchez Weldon (PA) AMENDMENT NO. 31 OFFERED BY MR. HYDE The question is on the amendment Miller (FL) Saxton Weller Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, pursuant offered by the gentleman from Florida Miller, Gary Schaffer Wexler to the rule, I offer an amendment. Minge Sensenbrenner Whitfield The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- (Mr. MCCOLLUM). Moore Sessions Wicker The question was taken; and the Moran (KS) Shadegg Wolf ignate the amendment. Chairman announced that the noes ap- Myrick Shaw Wu The text of the amendment is as fol- Nethercutt Shays Young (AK) lows: peared to have it. Northup Sherwood Young (FL) Part A amendment No. 31 offered by Mr. RECORDED VOTE NOES—181 HYDE: Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I de- Add at the end the following new title: mand a recorded vote. Abercrombie Foley Matsui Ackerman Ford McCarthy (MO) TITLE ll—PROTECTING CHILDREN A recorded vote was ordered. Allen Fossella McDermott FROM THE CULTURE OF VIOLENCE The vote was taken by electronic de- Baldacci Frank (MA) McGovern SEC. ll. PROTECTING CHILDREN FROM EX- vice, and there were—ayes 249, noes 181, Baldwin Gejdenson McKinney PLICIT SEXUAL OR VIOLENT MATE- not voting 4, as follows: Barrett (WI) Gephardt McNulty RIAL. Becerra Gonzalez Meehan (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 71 of title 18, [Roll No. 211] Bentsen Goode Meek (FL) United States Code, is amended by adding at Berman Gutierrez Meeks (NY) AYES—249 Blagojevich Hall (TX) Menendez the end the following: Aderholt Canady Franks (NJ) Blumenauer Hastings (FL) Metcalf ‘‘§ 1471. Protection of minors Andrews Capps Frelinghuysen Bonilla Hill (MT) Millender- ‘‘(a) PROHIBITION.—Whoever in interstate Archer Castle Frost Bonior Hilliard McDonald or foreign commerce knowingly and for mon- Armey Chabot Gallegly Brady (PA) Hinchey Miller, George Bachus Chambliss Ganske Brown (FL) Hinojosa Mink etary consideration, sells, sends, loans, or Baird Clement Gekas Brown (OH) Hoeffel Moakley exhibits, directly to a minor, any picture, Baker Collins Gibbons Campbell Hoekstra Mollohan photograph, drawing, sculpture, video game, Ballenger Combest Gilchrest Cannon Hostettler Moran (VA) motion picture film, or similar visual rep- Barcia Condit Gillmor Capuano Hoyer Morella resentation or image, book, pamphlet, maga- Barr Cook Gilman Cardin Hyde Murtha zine, printed matter, or sound recording, or Barrett (NE) Costello Goodlatte Carson Inslee Nadler other matter of any kind containing explicit Bartlett Cox Goodling Chenoweth Jackson (IL) Napolitano Barton Cramer Gordon Clay Jackson-Lee Neal sexual material or explicit violent material Bass Crane Goss Clayton (TX) Ney which— Bateman Cubin Graham Clyburn Jefferson Oberstar ‘‘(1) the average person, applying contem- Bereuter Cunningham Granger Coble Johnson, E.B. Obey porary community standards, would find, Berkley Davis (FL) Green (TX) Coburn Jones (OH) Olver taking the material as a whole and with re- Berry Davis (VA) Green (WI) Conyers Kanjorski Owens spect to minors, is designed to appeal or pan- Biggert Deal Greenwood Cooksey Kaptur Pastor der to the prurient, shameful, or morbid in- Bilbray DeLay Gutknecht Coyne Kennedy Paul Bilirakis DeMint Hall (OH) Crowley Kildee Payne terest; Bishop Deutsch Hansen Cummings Kilpatrick Pease ‘‘(2) the average person, applying contem- Bliley Diaz-Balart Hastings (WA) Danner Kind (WI) Pelosi porary community standards, would find the Blunt Dickey Hayes DeFazio Kleczka Pickett material patently offensive with respect to Boehlert Doyle Hayworth DeGette Klink Pombo what is suitable for minors; and Boehner Dreier Hefley Delahunt Kucinich Price (NC) ‘‘(3) a reasonable person would find, taking Bono Duncan Herger DeLauro LaFalce Pryce (OH) the material as a whole, lacks serious lit- Borski Dunn Hill (IN) Dicks Lantos Rahall Boswell Edwards Hilleary Dingell Larson Rangel erary, artistic, political, or scientific value Boucher Ehrlich Hobson Dixon LaTourette Rivers for minors; Boyd Emerson Holden Doggett Lee Rodriguez shall be punished as provided in subsection Brady (TX) English Holt Dooley Levin Roybal-Allard (c) of this section. Bryant Etheridge Hooley Doolittle Lewis (GA) Rush ‘‘(b) DEFINITIONS.—As used in subsection Burr Evans Horn Ehlers Lipinski Sabo (a)— Burton Everett Hulshof Engel Lofgren Sanders Buyer Ewing Hunter Eshoo Maloney (NY) Sandlin ‘‘(1) the term ‘knowingly’ means having Callahan Fletcher Hutchinson Farr Manzullo Sanford general knowledge of, or reason to know, or Calvert Forbes Isakson Fattah Markey Sawyer a belief or ground for belief which warrants Camp Fowler Istook Filner Martinez Scarborough further inspection or inquiry of—

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00056 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13132 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 ‘‘(A) the character and content of any ma- (2) whether violence in video games and involving violence present the consequences terial described in subsection (a) which is music contributes to juvenile delinquency of it to its victims and perpetrators. Presen- reasonably susceptible of examination by the and youth violence. tation of the details of violence should avoid defendant; and SEC. ll. TEMPORARY ANTITRUST IMMUNITY TO the excessive, the gratuitous and the in- ‘‘(B) the age of the minor; PERMIT THE ENTERTAINMENT IN- structional.’’. DUSTRY TO SET GUIDELINES TO but an honest mistake is a defense against a (D) ‘‘The presentation of marriage, family, HELP PROTECT CHILDREN FROM and similarly important human relation- prosecution under this section if the defend- HARMFUL MATERIAL. ships, and material with sexual connota- ant made a reasonable bona fide attempt to (a) FINDINGS.—Congress makes the fol- tions, shall not be treated exploitatively or ascertain the true age of such minor; lowing findings: ‘‘(2) the term ‘minor’ means any person (1) Television is seen and heard in nearly irresponsibly, but with sensitivity.’’. under the age of 17 years; and every United States home and is a uniquely (E) ‘‘Above and beyond the requirements of ‘‘(3) the term ‘sexual material’ means a pervasive presence in the daily lives of the law, broadcasters must consider the fam- visual depiction of an actual or simulated Americans. The average American home has ily atmosphere in which many of their pro- display of, or a detailed verbal description or 2.5 televisions, and a television is turned on grams are viewed. There shall be no graphic narrative account of— in the average American home 7 hours every portrayal of sexual acts by sight or sound. ‘‘(A) human male or female genitals, pubic day. The portrayal of implied sexual acts must be area or buttocks with less than a full opaque (2) Television plays a particularly signifi- essential to the plot and presented in a re- covering; cant role in the lives of children. Figures sponsible and tasteful manner.’’. ‘‘(B) a female breast with less than a fully provided by Nielsen Research show that chil- (10) The National Association of Broad- opaque covering of any portion thereof below dren between the ages of 2 years and 11 years casters abandoned the code of conduct in 1983 the top of the nipple; spend an average of 21 hours in front of a tel- after three provisions of the code restricting ‘‘(C) covered male genitals in a discernibly evision each week. the sale of advertising were challenged by turgid state; (3) Television has an enormous capability the Department of Justice on antitrust ‘‘(D) acts of masturbation, sodomy, or sex- to influence perceptions, especially those of grounds and a Federal district court issued a ual intercourse; children, of the values and behaviors that summary judgment against the National As- ‘‘(E) physical contact with a person’s are common and acceptable in society. sociation of Broadcasters regarding one of clothed or unclothed genitals, pubic area, (4) The influence of television is so great the provisions on those grounds. However, buttocks, or if such person be a female, that its images and messages often can be none of the programming standards of the breast; harmful to the development of children. So- code were challenged. ‘‘(4) the term ‘violent material’ means a cial science research amply documents a (11) While the code of conduct was in ef- visual depiction of an actual or simulated strong correlation between the exposure of fect, its programming standards were never display of, or a detailed verbal description or children to televised violence and a number found to have violated any antitrust law. narrative account of— of behavioral and psychological problems. (12) Since the National Association of ‘‘(A) sadistic or masochistic flagellation by (5) Hundreds of studies have proven conclu- Broadcasters abandoned the code of conduct, or upon a person; sively that children who are consistently ex- programming standards on broadcast and ‘‘(B) torture by or upon a person; posed to violence on television have a higher cable television have deteriorated dramati- ‘‘(C) acts of mutilation of the human body; tendency to exhibit violent and aggressive cally. or behavior, both as children and later in life. (13) In the absence of effective program- ‘‘(D) rape. (6) Such studies also show that repeated ming standards, public concern about the ‘‘(c) PENALTIES.—The punishment for an exposure to violent programming causes impact of television on children, and on soci- offense under this section is— children to become desensitized to and more ety as a whole, has risen substantially. Polls ‘‘(1) a fine under this title or imprisonment accepting of real-life violence and to grow routinely show that more than 80 percent of for not more than 5 years, or both, in the more fearful and less trusting of their sur- Americans are worried by the increasingly case of an offense which does not occur after roundings. graphic nature of sex, violence, and vul- a conviction for another offense under this (7) A growing body of social science re- garity on television and by the amount of section; and search indicates that sexual content on tele- programming that openly sanctions or glori- ‘‘(2) a fine under this title or imprisonment vision can also have a significant influence fies criminal, antisocial, and degrading be- for not more than 10 years, or both, in the on the attitudes and behaviors of young havior. case of an offense which occurs after a con- viewers. This research suggests that heavy (14) At the urging of Congress, the tele- viction for another offense under this sec- exposure to programming with strong sexual vision industry has taken some steps to re- tion.’’. content contributes to the early commence- spond to public concerns about programming (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of ment of sexual activity among teenagers. standards and content. The broadcast tele- sections at the beginning of chapter 71 of (8) Members of the National Association of vision industry agreed in 1992 to adopt a set title 18, United States Code, is amended by Broadcasters (NAB) adhered for many years of voluntary guidelines designed to ‘‘pro- adding at the end the following new item: to a comprehensive code of conduct that was scribe gratuitous or excessive portrayals of ‘‘1471. Protection of minors.’’. based on an understanding of the influence violence’’. Shortly thereafter, both the exerted by television and on a widely held broadcast and cable television industries SEC. ll. PRE-PURCHASE DISCLOSURE OF LYRICS PACKAGED WITH SOUND RE- sense of responsibility for using that influ- agreed to conduct independent studies of the CORDINGS. ence carefully. violent content in their programming and (a) IN GENERAL.—It is the sense of Congress (9) This code of conduct, the Television make those reports public. that retail establishments engaged in the Code of the National Association of Broad- (15) In 1996, the television industry as a sale of sound recordings— casters, articulated this sense of responsi- whole made a commitment to develop a com- (1) should make available for on-site re- bility as follows: prehensive rating system to label program- view, upon the request of a person over the (A) ‘‘In selecting program subjects and ming that may be harmful or inappropriate age of 18 years, the lyrics packaged with any themes, great care must be exercised to be for children. That system was implemented sound recording they offer for sale; and sure that the treatment and presentation are at the beginning of 1999. (2) should post a conspicuous notice of the made in good faith and not for the purpose of (16) Despite these efforts to respond to pub- right to review described in paragraph (1). sensationalism or to shock or exploit the au- lic concern about the impact of television on ‘‘(b) DEFINITION.—The term ‘retail estab- dience or appeal to prurient interests or children, millions of Americans, especially lishment’ means any physical place of busi- morbid curiosity.’’. parents with young children, remain angry ness which sells directly to a consumer, but (B) ‘‘Broadcasters have a special responsi- and frustrated at the sinking standards of does not include mail order, catalog, or on- bility toward children. Programs designed television programming, the reluctance of line sales of sound recordings. primarily for children should take into ac- the industry to police itself, and the harmful SEC. ll. STUDY OF EFFECTS OF ENTERTAIN- count the range of interests and needs of influence of television on the well-being of MENT ON CHILDREN. children, from instructional and cultural the children and the values of the United (a) REQUIREMENT.—The National Institutes material to a wide variety of entertainment States. of Health shall conduct a study of the effects material. In their totality, programs should (17) The Department of Justice issued a of video games and music on child develop- contribute to the sound, balanced develop- ruling in 1993 indicating that additional ef- ment and youth violence. ment of children to help them achieve a forts by the television industry to develop (b) ELEMENTS.—The study under subsection sense of the world at large and informed ad- and implement voluntary programming (a) shall address— justments to their society.’’. guidelines would not violate the antitrust (1) whether, and to what extent, video (C) ‘‘Violence, physical, or psychological, laws. The ruling states that ‘‘such activities games and music affect the emotional and may only be projected in responsibly handled may be likened to traditional standard set- psychological development of juveniles; and contexts, not used exploitatively. Programs ting efforts that do not necessarily restrain

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00057 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13133 competition and may have significant pro- ming, movies, video games, Internet content, ing Industry Association of America, and competitive benefits . . . Such guidelines or music lyrics that is in addition to the au- any person that produces or distributes could serve to disseminate valuable informa- thority to restrict such programming, mov- music, and includes any individual acting on tion on program content to both advertisers ies, games, content, or lyrics under law as of behalf of any of the above. and television viewers. Accurate information the date of the enactment of this Act; or (E) TELECAST.—The term ‘‘telecast mate- can enhance the demand for, and increase (B) approving any action of the Federal rial’’ means any program broadcast by a tel- the output of, an industry’s products or serv- Government to restrict such programming, evision broadcast station or transmitted by ices.’’. movies, games, content, or lyrics that is in a cable television system. (18) The Children’s Television Act of 1990 addition to any actions undertaken for that (d) SUNSET.—Subsection (d) shall apply (Public Law 101–437) states that television purpose by the Federal Government under only with respect to conduct that occurs in broadcasters in the United States have a law as of such date. the period beginning on the date of the en- clear obligation to meet the educational and (c) EXEMPTION OF VOLUNTARY AGREEMENTS actment of this Act and ending 3 years after informational needs of children. ON GUIDELINES FOR CERTAIN ENTERTAINMENT such date. (19) Several independent analyses have MATERIAL FROM APPLICABILITY OF ANTITRUST (e) REPORT.—The Attorney General shall demonstrated that the television broad- LAWS.— report to the Congress, not later than 90 days casters in the United States have not ful- (1) EXEMPTION.—Subject to paragraph (2), after the period described in subsection (d), filled their obligations under the Children’s the antitrust laws shall not apply to any on the effect of the exemption made by this Television Act of 1990 and have not notice- joint discussion, consideration, review, ac- section. ably expanded the amount of educational tion, or agreement by or among persons in SEC. ll. PROMOTING GRASSROOTS SOLUTIONS and informational programming directed at the entertainment industry for the purpose TO YOUTH VIOLENCE. young viewers since the enactment of that of developing and disseminating voluntary (a) ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL YOUTH Act. guidelines designed— CRIME PREVENTION DEMONSTRATION (20) The popularity of video and personal (A) to alleviate the negative impact of PROJECT.—The Attorney General shall, sub- computer (PC) games is growing steadily telecast material, movies, video games, ject to appropriations, award a grant to the among children. Although most popular Internet content, and music lyrics con- National Center for Neighborhood Enterprise video and personal computer games are edu- taining— (referred to in this section as the ‘‘National cational or harmless in nature, some are ex- (i) violence, sexual content, criminal be- Center’’) to enable the National Center to tremely violent. One recent study by Stra- havior; or award subgrants to grassroots entities in the tegic Record Research found that 64 percent (ii) other subjects that are not appropriate following 8 cities: of teenagers played video or personal com- for children; or (1) Washington, District of Columbia. puter games on a regular basis. (B) to promote telecast material, movies, (2) Detroit, Michigan. (21) Game players of violent games may be video games, Internet content, or music (3) Hartford, Connecticut. cast in the role of shooter, with points lyrics that are educational, informational, or (4) Indianapolis, Indiana. scored for each ‘‘kill’’. Similarly, advertising otherwise beneficial to the development of (5) Chicago (and surrounding metropolitan for such games often touts violent content as children. area), Illinois. a selling point—the more graphic and ex- (2) LIMITATION.—The exemption provided in (6) Dallas, Texas. treme, the better. paragraph (1) shall not apply to any joint (7) Los Angeles, California. (22) Due to their increasing popularity and discussion, consideration, review, action, or (8) Norfolk, Virginia. graphic quality, video games may increas- agreement that— (9) Houston, Texas. ingly influence impressionable children. (A) results in a boycott of any person; or (b) ELIGIBILITY.— (23) Music is another extremely pervasive (B) concerns the purchase or sale of adver- (1) IN GENERAL.—To be eligible to receive a and popular form of entertainment. Amer- tising, including restrictions on the number subgrant under this section, a grassroots en- ican children and teenagers listen to music of products that may be advertised in a com- tity referred to in subsection (a) shall submit more than any other demographic group. mercial, the number of times a program may The Journal of American Medicine reported an application to the National Center to be interrupted for commercials, and the that between the 7th and 12th grades the av- fund intervention models that establish vio- erage teenager listens to 10,500 hours of rock number of consecutive commercials per- lence-free zones. or rap music, just slightly less than the en- mitted within each interruption. (2) SELECTION CRITERIA.—In awarding sub- tire number of hours spent in the classroom (3) DEFINITIONS.—In this subsection: grants under this section, the National Cen- from kindergarten through high school. (A) ANTITRUST LAWS.—The term ‘‘antitrust ter shall consider— (24) Teens are among the heaviest pur- laws’’— (A) the track record of a grassroots entity chasers of music, and are most likely to (i) has the meaning given it in subsection and key participating individuals in youth favor music genres that depict, and often ap- (a) of the first section of the Clayton Act (15 group mediation and crime prevention; pear to glamorize violence. U.S.C. 12(a)), except that such term includes (B) the engagement and participation of a (25) Music has a powerful ability to influ- section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission grassroots entity with other local organiza- ence perceptions, attitudes, and emotional Act (15 U.S.C. 45) to the extent such section tions; and state. The use of music as therapy indicates 5 applies to unfair methods of competition; (C) the ability of a grassroots entity to its potential to increase emotional, psycho- and enter into partnerships with local housing logical, and physical health. That influence (ii) includes any State law similar to the authorities, law enforcement agencies, and can be used for ill as well. laws referred to in subparagraph (A). other public entities. (b) PURPOSES; CONSTRUCTION.— (B) INTERNET.—The term ‘‘Internet’’ means (c) USES OF FUNDS.— (1) PURPOSES.—The purposes of this section the combination of computer facilities and (1) IN GENERAL.—Funds received under this are to permit the entertainment industry— electromagnetic transmission media, and re- section shall be used for youth mediation, (A) to work collaboratively to respond to lated equipment and software, comprising youth mentoring, life skills training, job cre- growing public concern about television pro- the interconnected worldwide network of ation and entrepreneurship, organizational gramming, movies, video games, Internet computer networks that employ the Trans- development and training, development of content, and music lyrics, and the harmful mission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol long-term intervention plans, collaboration influence of such programming, movies, or any successor protocol to transmit infor- with law enforcement, comprehensive sup- games, content, and lyrics on children; mation. port services and local agency partnerships, (B) to develop a set of voluntary program- (C) MOVIES.—The term ‘‘movies’’ means or other activities to further community ob- ming guidelines similar to those contained theatrical motion pictures. jectives in reducing youth crime and vio- in the Television Code of the National Asso- (D) PERSON IN THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUS- lence. ciation of Broadcasters; and TRY.—The term ‘‘person in the entertain- (2) TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE.—The National (C) to implement the guidelines in a man- ment industry’’ means a television network, Center, in cooperation with the Attorney ner that alleviates the negative impact of any person that produces or distributes tele- General, shall also provide technical assist- television programming, movies, video vision programming (including theatrical ance for startup projects in other cities. games, Internet content, and music lyrics on motion pictures), the National Cable Tele- (3) FISCAL CONTROLS.—The Attorney Gen- the development of children in the United vision Association, the Association of Inde- eral is authorized to establish and maintain States and stimulates the development and pendent Television Stations, Incorporated, all appropriate fiscal controls of sub-grant- broadcast of educational and informational the National Association of Broadcasters, ees under subsection (a). programming for such children. the Motion Picture Association of America, (d) REPORTS.—The National Center shall (2) CONSTRUCTION.—This section may not each of the affiliate organizations of the tel- submit a report to the Attorney General be construed as— evision networks, the Interactive Digital evaluating the effectiveness of grassroots (A) providing the Federal Government with Software Association, any person that pro- agencies and other public entities involved any authority to restrict television program- duces or distributes video games, the Record- in the demonstration project.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00058 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13134 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 (e) DEFINITIONS.— As popular entertainment becomes eral law that would prohibit the sale of For purposes of this section— more violent and more sexually ex- certain explicit sexual and explicit vio- (1) the term ‘‘grassroots entity’’ means a plicit and as it depicts more and more lent material to minors under the age not-for-profit community organization with disrespect for life, and the rights and of 17. My amendment covers violent demonstrated effectiveness in mediating and addressing youth violence by empowering at- well-being of others, some of our chil- material because I believe if the Con- risk youth to become agents of peace and dren are starting to believe this behav- stitution permits us to restrict the community restoration; and ior is normal and acceptable. They do type of sexual material kids can pur- (2) the term ‘‘National Center for Neigh- not seem to understand that acts of vi- chase, then it makes sense that we can borhood Enterprise’’ is a not-for-profit orga- olence have real life tragic con- also prohibit the distribution of mate- nization incorporated in the District of Co- sequences. rial to minors that is graphically vio- lumbia. We know as a result of several hun- lent and glorifies this violence to a (f) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.— dred studies, there is a link between level that is harmful. (1) IN GENERAL.—There are authorized to be media violence and violent behavior in I believe certain extremely violent appropriated to carry out this section— movies, video games and music can (A) $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2000; our country, particularly among young (B) $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2001; people. Both the American Medical As- have just as much or more of a detri- (C) $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2002; sociation and the American Associa- mental effect on the development of (D) $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2003; and tion of Pediatrics have warned against kids than some explicit sexual mate- (E) $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2004. exposing children to violent entertain- rial that many States currently try to (2) RESERVATION.—The National Center for ment. One 1996 AMA study concluded protect them from. Neighborhood Enterprise may use not more that the link between media violence In other words, at their worst, vio- than 20 percent of the amounts appropriated and real life violence has been proven lence and pornography are equivalent pursuant to paragraph (1) in any fiscal year evils, especially where minor children for administrative costs, technical assist- by science time and time again. Another American Medical Associa- are concerned. ance and training, comprehensive support This new obscenity for minors stat- services, and evaluation of participating tion study concluded that exposure to grassroots entities. violence in entertainment increases ag- ute does not restrict the rights of gressive behavior and contributes to adults or parents to view certain sex- b 1545 America’s sense that they live in a ual or violent material. It does not pro- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House mean society. Much of the make-be- hibit anyone from producing such Resolution 209, the gentleman from Il- lieve violence that kids are exposed to items and does not provide an unwork- able standard. Rather, it empowers linois (Mr. HYDE), and a Member op- today is presented not as horror with parents to make decisions about what posed, each will control 30 minutes. devastating human consequences but type of material is appropriate for The Chair recognizes the gentleman simply as entertainment. This is enor- from Illinois (Mr. HYDE). their children. mously harmful to young people whose With enactment of this legislation, Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- values and conscience are still being self such time as I may consume. parents, not merchants, many of whom developed. are responsible, but there will always Mr. Chairman, it is an unfortunate Well, what can we do about this? Are fact that it often takes a tragedy such be some who without the threat of law we impotent? Are we paralyzed? It is will pursue profit over decency and sell as happened recently in Colorado to get not easy, but I believe my amendment, our attention to help us focus on a fes- harmful materials to minors, will de- which includes five specific proposals cide whether their kids can see explicit tering problem. addressing this cultural breakdown, is In the light of the recent rash of sexual or violent material. a beginning and gets at some of the Some, of course, have questioned the school shootings and the continued worst influences on our children. constitutionality of this proposal. It is prevalence of youth violence in Amer- The first and most important section clear that this proposal is going to be ica, I think it is crucial that Congress of my amendment creates a new Fed- challenged in the courts should it be- address some of the cultural issues eral statute to protect minors from ex- come law. However, I submit that that influence the behavior of Amer- plicit sexual and explicit violent mate- those who assert that the statute is ica’s young people, factors that may rial. The First Amendment is not abso- patently unconstitutional are engaging actually be causing kids to find a gun lute and does not protect obscenity. in knee-jerk analysis and have not and commit a violent act. That has been the law for 40 years. thoroughly studied the law in this The fact is new gun laws and tighter There is an exception to the First area. This statute, this amendment, control of the juvenile justice system Amendment, and it is obscenity. was carefully drafted to comply with are not by themselves a cure for the Furthermore, under current law, it is the Supreme Court’s precedent. epidemic of youth violence. Although constitutionally permissible to adopt First, a detailed definition of sexual gun legislation has its utility, the real an obscenity standard which restricts and violent material is included to ad- problem is what is going on in our kids’ the rights of minors to obtain certain dress the constitutional concern of minds and hearts and souls. sexually-related materials that are not vagueness. The definition of sexual ma- The young assailants in Colorado vio- considered obscene for adults. In other terial was taken almost verbatim from lated 15 Federal gun and explosive laws words, there is a double standard and it a New York statute that was upheld by and 7 State laws. So passing a few more is a tougher standard for minors than the Supreme Court in a case known as laws and piling them on does not seem for adults, and that is the constitu- Ginsberg versus New York. The defini- to me to get at the heart of the prob- tional law. tion of violent material is new, but I lem. Currently, many States do this believe it is sufficiently precise that if In order to be truly responsive to the through harmful to minor statutes someone challenges the bill on vague- issues of youth violence, Congress must that prohibit the sale of sexually ex- ness grounds it will survive the chal- address the cultural influences that plicit material to minors that would lenge. cause young people to become violent. not necessarily be considered obscene Secondly, the statute incorporates We need to get at the issues of the for adults. Thus, in most States with the standard three-prong test validated heart. harmful to minor statutes adults can by the Supreme Court and used to de- Part of the problem is that children buy certain pornographic magazines termine if the sexual or violent mate- have been overexposed to violence and, but minors cannot. rial as defined by the statute does or this, coupled with a spiritual vacuum Right now, there is no Federal law does not qualify for First Amendment leaves many youngsters desensitized to that prohibits the sale of material that protection. I am confident the Court violence and unable to fully appreciate is considered too explicit for minors will uphold this test. the consequences of their sometimes but not for adults. My amendment Third, someone may argue to the brutal actions. would change that by creating a Fed- courts that violent material can never

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00059 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13135 be obscene. The Supreme Court has and I would like to take a few moments portant to feel something when you never held directly that extremely vio- to explain them. kill.’’ This game is ‘‘more fun than lent material may not, for that reason I have included as a second section a shooting your neighbor’s cat.’’ ‘‘Kill only, be banned. provision whereby Congress, through your friends guilt free.’’ I submit that extreme violence, prop- merely a sense of Congress resolution, Determining what impact video erly defined, can be obscene. If sexual asks retail establishments that sell games like this might have on the deci- images may go sufficiently beyond music to allow parents to review, in sions and behavior of young people is community standards for candor and their store, the lyrics accompanying clearly in the public interest. By some offensiveness and hence be unpro- the sound recordings they offer for estimates, the average teen listens to tected, there is no reason why the same sale. This is a simple way for parents music around 4 hours a day. Between should not be true of violence. to read the lyrics accompanying the 7th and 12th grade, the average teen is I understand some people may dis- CDs they are considering buying for going to listen to around 10,000 hours of agree with the Court’s decision to their kids. It is my hope that retailers music. That is more time than they carve out an exception to the First can take this responsible step on their will spend in school. Amendment freedom of speech for ob- own and allow parents to review in Last month, Bill Bennett commented scenity, but if one believes the Su- their store a copy of the lyrics. on the possible effects of music lyrics preme Court is justified in maintaining We are not asking them to give away on child development by first quoting a First Amendment exception for ob- copies of lyrics. We are merely asking Socrates who wrote, ‘‘Musical training scenely sexual material, then what are them to give the parents a right to is a more potent instrument than any the policy arguments that justify this look at them so they can determine for other, because rhythm and harmony exception that do not also apply to vio- themselves whether the lyrics are ap- find their way into the inward places of lent material? propriate for their own children. the soul, on which they mightily fas- There are no theories of the First Many CDs contain foul language. ten, imparting grace.’’ Amendment that justify an exception While others contain vulgar and graph- Mr. Bennett then stated that rhythm for sexual obscenity that can’t reason- ic lyrics describing and glamourizing and harmony are still fastening them- ably be extended to justify an excep- murder, gang violence, suicide and sex, selves on to children’s souls today. tion for violent obscenity. many lyrics are hateful, racist or However, much of the music they lis- It is also important to remember misogynistic. Although there is a vol- ten to is imparting mournfulness, that this amendment would not declare untary labeling system within the re- darkness, despair, and a sense of death. any violent materials as obscene for cording industry that calls for place- This is something many parents fear, adults only; only for minors under the ment of a sticker on CDs that contain and we ought to study if some modern age of 17. explicit language, there is still no way music does indeed impart a sense of The Supreme Court has recognized prior to purchase for the parents to re- death upon America’s youth. there is a compelling interest in pro- view the lyrics in the store. The fourth section of this amend- tecting the physical and psychological ment is very similar to a Senate b 1600 well-being of minors. This interest ex- amendment providing a limited anti- tends to shielding minors from the in- Hopefully this section will result in trust exemption to the entertainment fluence of literature that is not ob- establishment of a right to review in industry to enable the entertainment scene by adult standards. the stores. industry to work collectively to de- Under my proposed amendment it The third section of this amendment velop and implement voluntary pro- would still be legal to produce and dis- essentially mirrors part of an amend- gramming guidelines that alleviate the tribute any explicitly violent material ment sponsored by Senator BROWNBACK negative impact of television program- but some of it would not be permitted that was included in the juvenile jus- ming, movies, Internet content, and to be sold to minors. tice bill passed by the Senate. This sec- music lyrics on the development of I think this new provision is exceed- tion requires the National Institutes of children. ingly important. It says that we are on Health to conduct the study of the ef- Nothing in this amendment curtails the side of parents and not the pur- fects of violent video games and music freedom of expression in any way. It veyors of harmful material to our chil- on child development and youth vio- gives, rather, the entertainment indus- dren. lence. try the freedom to enter into a vol- I realize the big money of the enter- The NIH is directed to address in the untary code of conduct. tainment industry is on the other side study whether and to what extent The fifth section of the amendment, of my argument, but I believe the par- video games and music affect the emo- promoting grassroots solutions to ents of America are on my side. tional and psychological development youth violence, authorizes the Attor- This legislation is not an attack on of juveniles and whether violence and ney General to award $5 million annu- the First Amendment, despite what has video games and music contributes to ally for 5 years to the National Center been charged by many of my col- juvenile delinquency and youth vio- for Neighborhood Enterprise for the leagues. Rather, it is simply saying lence. purpose of funding direct demonstra- that some material is beyond the pale While numerous studies, one counts tion operations and program develop- and should not be sold to minors. We it at over 300, have been conducted re- ment grants to community organiza- are not trying to ban anything or cen- garding the impact of violence in tele- tions in nine cities across the country. sor anyone. We are just saying one can- vision and movies, there have been During the 105th Congress, the Com- not sell some of this horrible stuff to very few studies done on the impact of mittee on the Judiciary held a hearing kids. music and video games on young peo- on a number of inner city programs If my colleagues do not believe that ple. that have succeeded in reducing youth parents should have more control over The popularity of video games is rap- crime and violence. One of the pro- their kids’ access to these harmful ma- idly increasing. One study, conducted grams showcased was the National terials, then by all means vote against by Strategy Records Research, found Center for Neighborhood Enterprise, my amendment. However, if they be- that 64 percent of young people play based in Washington, D.C. Since 1981, lieve we should do something to slow video games on a regular basis, and this organization has successfully dealt the flood of toxic waste into the minds many are nothing more than a contest with gang violence, teen pregnancy, of our children, then please do vote for to see which competitor can kill the drug abuse, and fatherless children. my amendment. most efficiently. One of the most remarkable suc- There are four other parts to this The graphics are startling. Some ad- cesses occurred in 1997, not far from amendment that will make a difference vertisements for these games make the Capitol, where this organization in addressing the culture of violence, pitches like ‘‘Psychiatrists say it is im- helped broker a truce between warring

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00060 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13136 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 gangs that had turned the Benning Ter- Federal cultural police that overlaps Further, because there is no exception in the race neighborhood into a combat zone. with State law enforcement creates, amendment for parents, the amendment That truce has lasted to this day, and honestly, a logistical nightmare for the would also subject a parent to prison for up Benning Terrace has been transformed Justice Department, which would have to five years for showing his or her child a movie or book with supposedly—sexually-ex- into a neighborhood where people can to apply local community standards in plicit or violent content. The Majority’s again walk their streets in safety. determining whether the material is track record on these issues are not very The Benning Terrace truce show- sexual or violence. good—it was only two years ago that their cased what has made the National Cen- Also, since the statute does not have statutory restriction on Internet access to ter for Neighborhood Enterprise ap- a specific intent requirement, the only materials with sexual content in the form of proach to inner city violence so suc- alternative available for video and the Communications Decency Act was cessful. Faced with an intractable drug store clerks who are the poor struck down by the Supreme Court by a vote problem, they stepped in, tapped local mensches that will be prosecuted under of 9–0 as being overbroad. Reno v. ACLU, 117 S. Ct. 2329 (1997). groups that understood the problem, this and would want to avoid prison, is and helped rival gang members recog- to watch every movie, read every book THE HYDE AMENDMENT IS UNWORKABLE nize their mutual interests. This provi- to determine their content and then Creating a vast new Federal ‘‘cultural po- sion is an attempt to replicate this ap- determine whether the community lice’’ that overlaps with state law enforce- standards would prohibit the sale of ment creates a logistical nightmare for the proach in nine violence-plagued cities Justice Department, which would have to across the Nation. these movies or books to minors. apply local ‘‘community standards’’ in deter- If Congress is going to spend funds on So just briefly, and I have a letter of mining whether the material is sexual or social programs, it is important for us explanation, the amendment is pat- violent. Also, since the statute does not have to try to direct Federal funds to com- ently unconstitutional. I would remind a specific intent requirement, the only alter- munity renewal organizations in our my colleagues that, in our substitute, native available for video and drug store cities that actually have succeeded in we have both the antitrust exemption clerks who want to avoid prison is to watch reducing violence and putting kids on and the industry guidelines that would every movie or read every book to determine start us on a more normal course of ac- their content and then determine whether the right track. The National Center the ‘‘community standards’’ would prohibit does this, as evidenced by their trans- tion. the sale of those movies or books to minors. formation of the Benning Terrace hous- Please reject the amendment. The creation of a Federal censorship stat- ing project, and helped prevent count- The letter of explanation I referred ute threatens to cultivate a generation less young persons from engaging in to is as follows: bereft of literary enrichment and enlighten- the life-style of violence. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, ment. As a matter of fact, there are numer- I know Congress does not have all the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, ous materials that were at one time consid- Washington, DC, June 16, 1999. answers to the terrible problem of ered to have too much sexual or violent con- VOTE NOONHYDE’S FEDERAL CENSORSHIP youth violence in America. Some of tent but now are regarded as classic pieces of AMENDMENT literature. For example, works that were these proposals I have discussed are AMENDMENT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, considered too sexually-explicit include Na- modest. But we ought to do what we UNWORKABLE, AND UNNECESSARY thaniel Hawthorne’s ‘‘The Scarlet Letter’’ in can. Study after study has shown that DEAR COLLEAGUE: Today, Rep. Hyde will the 1850’s by Reverend Arthur C. Coxe (a exposure to violence adversely affects offer an amendment (Amendment 31) pro- judge noted that, while the book was criti- the development of children and leaves viding for a sweeping new Federal censorship cized when it came out, it was fully accepted some of them more disposed to commit regime that generally prohibits the dissemi- in 1949); and J.D. Salinger’s ‘‘The Catcher in acts of violence. nation of ‘‘explicit sexual material’’ or ‘‘ex- the Rye’’ by school boards in Pennsylvania Even the most caring and responsible plicit violent material.’’ This is a trans- (1975), New Jersey (1977), Washington (1978), parent attempt to turn the focus of the de- and Iowa (1992). Ernest Hemingway’s ‘‘The parents cannot prevent these influ- Sun Also Rises’’ was considered ‘‘offensive’’ ences from reaching their kids. Parents bate away from common-sense gun-safety legislation and instead scapegoat our na- by the school boards of San Jose and River- need our help. Let us stand with them. tion’s newspaper, magazine, book, television, side, California (1960’s), and by the Watch Nothing we do in this life is more im- movie, and video industries, and I urge a NO and Ward Society of Boston (1927); and Wil- portant than how we raise our children. vote. liam Golding’s ‘‘Lord of the Flies’’ was found to be excessively violent by critics in Texas Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance THE HYDE AMENDMENT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL of my time. (1974), South Dakota and North Carolina The Hyde amendment violates the First (1981) and Arizona (1983). The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman Amendment because it is both vague and from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) claim the overbroad. Recently the Eighth Circuit THE HYDE AMENDMENT IS UNNECESSARY time in opposition? struck down a similar state obscenity stat- Perhaps the most hypocritical aspect of Mr. CONYERS. Yes, I do, Mr. Chair- ute on vagueness grounds, observing that ‘‘to the Amendment is its internal inconsistency. man. survive a vagueness challenge, a statute Other provisions of the proposal would insti- The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog- must ‘give the person of ordinary intel- tute an NIH study of the impact of violence on children and grant members of the enter- nizes the gentleman from Michigan ligence a reasonable opportunity to know what is prohibited’ and ‘provide explicit tainment industry an antitrust exemption so (Mr. CONYERS) for 30 minutes. standards for those who apply [the statute]’ ’’ they could voluntarily agree on appropriate Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Video Software Dealers Ass’n v. Webster, 968 community standards. Yet the censorship myself 2 minutes. F.2d 684, 689 (8th Cir. 1992). The Hyde amend- proposal would take effect before the study Mr. Chairman, this is an amendment ment is unconstitutionally vague because is completed. that I speak to with some disappoint- among other things, it does not define the Moreover, there are already several guide- ment that the chairman of the Com- terms used to reference violence, namely, lines, methods, and studies addressing vio- mittee on the Judiciary would launch ‘‘torture,’’ ‘‘flagellation,’’ or ‘‘mutilation.’’ lence in entertainment. For example, the an unparalleled assault on the first Failing to define ‘‘multilation’’ means that Motion Picture Association of America al- even pricking someone with a pin might fall ready rates each movie for content and ex- amendment without committee delib- within meaning of the term. hibits the rating every time a movie is ad- eration. The Supreme court has held that restric- vertised. The National Association of The- Now, we are all concerned about the tions on speech will be held unconstitutional atre Owners has just initiated a new national impact of depictions of violence on also where they are overbroad. The Hyde ID-check policy for admission to ‘‘R’’-rated children, but to try to approach a very amendment is overbroad in several respects. films. And the video game industry puts on difficult cultural problem in this way For example, it goes so far as to prohibit its products the ratings that the Entertain- is, I think, to ignore at least two Fed- newspapers and magazines from accepting ment Software Rating Board devises for eral court decisions, Reno versus such basic advertisements as those for un- games so that purchasers of such games can derwear. The amendment would also pre- be aware of their content. Some networks ACLU, and yet another, the Video Soft- clude minors from seeing a movie such as have agreed not to air commercials for R- ware Dealers Association versus Web- Home Alone, which contains slapstick vio- rated movies with violent content before 9 ster, cases that clearly make it abun- lence and appeals to the ‘‘morbid’’ interest PM. And just recently, the Clinton adminis- dantly plain that creating a vast new in minors who want to see people get hurt. tration and Democratic Members of Congress

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00061 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13137 successfully pushed for mandating the V- well intentioned and is troubled by vio- b 1615 chip on television sets, thereby letting par- lence, this will not solve it. ents block out television programs and mov- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield What happens if the videos in the 2 minutes to the gentlewoman from ies having certain ratings. home of a consenting adult person are California (Mrs. TAUSCHER). All of these provisions will be redundant loaned to the neighbor and the neigh- and unnecessary if we put the cart before the Mrs. TAUSCHER. Mr. Chairman, I horse and mandate Federal obscenity and vi- bor’s children? Now it says ‘‘sale’’. It rise today as a parent and a legislator olence standards before we give these ap- says ‘‘sale’’. But it also shows, I be- to oppose the Hyde amendment. proaches an opportunity to work. I urge you lieve, in the amendment ‘‘viewing.’’ While the Hyde amendment intends to vote ‘‘no’’ on the Hyde cultural amend- So these amendments cause me great to establish a standard to regulate ment. concern, and I would hope the com- children’s exposure to violence, I be- Sincerely, mittee and the Members will vote lieve this legislation will neither pro- JOHN CONYERS, Jr., against the amendment. tect children nor help parents shield Ranking Member. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am their children from harm. This amend- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield pleased to yield 2 minutes to the gen- ment’s overly broad attempts to regu- 2 minutes to the gentleman from Flor- tleman from California (Mr. BERMAN), late portrayals of violence raises seri- ida (Mr. FOLEY), chair of the Entertain- the ranking member of the Sub- ous constitutional questions that may ment Caucus. committee on Courts and Intellectual result in this law being tied up in the Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in Property. courts for years. While the court bat- opposition to the Hyde amendment. I Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank tles are waged, not one child will be understand the concern of the gen- the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. protected nor one parent’s peace of tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) for CONYERS), the ranking member of the Committee on Judiciary for yielding mind enhanced. what is happening in America. We have We need to truly empower parents had tragic incidents around our coun- me this time. My colleagues do not have to be intellectual to be on that with common sense protective meas- try. But like others, we are looking to ures, such as the V-chip, establish TV seek and put the blame on groups rath- subcommittee. Three points I would like to make in ratings, strict enforcement of age re- er than reflect on the problems that quirements at movie theaters, and soft- face society. a very short time. This is very uncharacteristic of the gentleman from ware filters for the Internet. We all Everybody is fingerpointing in our agree our children should be shielded communities, trying to find a scape- Illinois (Mr. HYDE), chairman of the committee. He asserts as a matter of from violence and that parents should goat for the problems in our commu- have the tools to protect their chil- nities. This solution grows the govern- belief, but without any case evidence to support it, that he can graft in what dren. I would rather the industry spend ment ever larger. It will create a police the time in developing these tools than force of what is decent, what is violent, I view as a somewhat clumsy and inartful way, the obscenity logic onto fighting protracted legal battles. what is excessive. I urge my colleagues to oppose the Who would be the arbiter of those the depiction of violence. This has been tried before; and every Hyde amendment and to support com- type of standards? Who would set the single time it has been tried, the courts mon sense and effective measures that guidelines? Who will be the first to be have knocked it down. They said, the will truly protect our children. prosecuted under this vague law? Nassau County Board of Supervisors, Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield The store clerk could be subject to 5 this is in the second circuit, Eclipse 2 minutes to the gentleman from Cali- years in prison and a fine for the first Entertainment versus Gluota, the Nas- fornia (Mr. ROGAN), a member of the offense, 10 years in prison or a fine for sau County Board of Supervisors sim- Committee on the Judiciary. the second offense. ply adapted the Miller obscenity stand- Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank Is that a movie like ‘‘Home Alone’’? ard to minors into violence. However, the gentleman for yielding me this Is that a movie like ‘‘Ben Hur’’? Is that this was not a sufficient measure to time. a movie like ‘‘Private Ryan’’? shield the law from successful constitu- Mr. Chairman, it is with great reluc- Now, I have had discussions with the tional challenge, because the standards tance that I rise in opposition to the chairman who suggests those would that apply to obscenity are different amendment by the distinguished chair- not be covered under this law, but the than those that apply to violence. Ob- man of the Committee on the Judici- chairman will not always be chairman scenity is not protected speech. This is, ary, the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. of the Committee on the Judiciary, and case after case. Time does not give me HYDE). the people at the Department of Jus- the time to make this argument. I start with the proposition, Mr. tice will not always be the ones that Secondly, Ginsberg, yes, Ginsberg al- Chairman, that it is my responsibility we will know what is in their minds, lowed a differentiated standard on as a parent to make sure that my chil- what is in their thoughts, and what is obsenity to minors. This seeks to track dren are watching age-appropriate ma- in their hearts. that by doing a different standard on terial. And if they are watching some- I do not want the government taking the depiction of violence to minors. thing that is inappropriate, the respon- the role of parents. I do not want the But in Ginsberg, there was an excep- sibility rests with me to correct the de- government stepping in, telling parents tion from any criminal prosecution ficiency. It is not the responsibility of we are going to take care of their prob- where there was parental participation Congress or Hollywood or any other lems for them. or consent. group to correct that deficiency. Mr. Chairman, how do people under This measure has absolutely no such I do not believe the author of this 17 who do not drive cars get to the exception. The parent can be in the amendment intends to censor movies malls to buy the videos? How do they video store, in the theater, with the depicting violence engaged in for a get the games in their homes? How do minor, and be quite willing to have the noble, heroic or socially worthy pur- they watch the TVs? They are allowed child, the minor see this. The vendor pose. The problem, Mr. Chairman, is to by their parents. This should not be who sells it, ironically, we do not go that the severe punitive measures put about the government stepping in, say- after the studio, the author, the dis- in this amendment put creators and ing we are now their parent, we are Mr. tributor, we go after the vendor, the distributors in a vise. They essentially Mom or Mr. Dad. poor guy at the video store, at Block- have to ‘‘gamble’’ before they release We are here today debating an busters. material and make a guess whether it amendment that I do believe tramples There is no exception whatsoever fits some vague literary, artistic, polit- on the first amendment, that I do be- here for parental consent, and there is ical or socially redeeming value test. lieve tries to assume the role of par- no standard that is contained in And should they gamble incorrectly, ents in communities. I would regret- Ginsberg for utterly without social re- they could spend 5 years in Federal tably say that while the chairman is deeming value. prison.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00062 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13138 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 There is also something dispropor- Much of our comedy also includes ac- the campaign finance mess is not to de- tionate about language in a bill that tions of ‘‘torture’’ that few would find bate reform and limit special interest allows a negligent parent who lets any connection with violence. Look at contributions, but to stonewall action their children watch horribly violent Jim Carey, one of the most popular ac- and advocate lifting all spending lim- material have no acknowledged culpa- tors of today. Many of his films con- its. bility, but the person who fails to pay tain experiences that most humans How do they deal with the problem of attention one day and does not check would rarely survive. How about other cigarette smoking, where we know for I.D. at the local video store could movies, such as Home Alone, in which 3,000 kids start smoking each day be- do up to 5 years in prison. the child left a home, tarred the rob- cause the tobacco industry targets I do not think that is an appropriate bers, put nails out for them to fall on, them in order to get them to smoke? response from Congress. I do not think and did a variety of other torture ac- They refuse to bring up any legislation it will solve any of the troubles or the tivities. Parents and children alike, on the subject. pathologies we are attempting to ad- however, flocked to this film. Their solution to the horror of chil- dress. It is with that reluctance, Mr. This amendment must be rejected. It dren killing children with guns is not Chairman, that I rise in opposition to is unconstitutional on its face, no mat- to make it harder for kids to get weap- the amendment. ter how laudable an objective it seeks ons, but to try to shift the cause of the Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, could the to achieve. problem to movies and propose uncon- Chair tell us how much time is remain- Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield stitutional attacks on the First ing? such time as he may consume to the Amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Mr. Chairman, I want to say at the YDE from Illinois (Mr. H ) has 11 minutes PALLONE). outset that it ought to be clear that remaining; and the gentleman from Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in movie makers, and many of them are 1 Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 21 ⁄2 min- strong opposition to the Hyde amendment. It my constituents, have an obligation to utes remaining. has been almost a month since Littleton and think through the consequences of Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield the Republican House has once again fum- what they offer their audiences, espe- 2 minutes to the gentleman from Texas bled an issue important to the health and safe- cially impressionable kids. They bear a (Mr. FROST), the distinguished ranking ty of America. They bring a bill to the floor serious responsibility for their action. member of the Committee on Rules. But it is important for us to also keep today which has had no scrutiny from the Ju- Mr. FROST. Mr. Chairman, just last in mind that these films are creative diciary Committee, much less the whole week, on June 10, the U.S. Supreme works that audiences line up here and House and will move amendments which will Court, in the City of Chicago vs. Mo- around the world to see, and that is move us from a debate on gun control in order rales, struck down a city ordinance why they are America’s largest export. that was intended to stop gang mem- to engage in a book burning! And other countries see these very bers from loitering. In so doing, the The House Republican Leadership has same films, but we do not see the level court held the ordinance was overbroad been doing the bidding of the gun lobby since of violence that we do see in America. and vague. It failed to give proper no- the shots were fired in Littleton. The other It is startling to realize that the death tice of what was forbidden and what body had no problem in engaging this topic rate in the U.S. involving guns was was permitted. head-on and voting on serious legislation. In nearly 14 per 100,000 people. Yet when The language of this bill commits the fact, most Americans are dead serious about we compare that with Canada, it is same fatal error. It fails to explain keeping their children safe. But not here, my four; or Australia, three; Sweden, two; what is covered in its terms and, in so colleagues. Here in the Republican House, Germany, 1.5; and in Japan, less than 1. doing, sweeps up educational and en- they are concerned with the gun lobby. The Why such a disparity between our tertaining material that is irrelevant gun lobby needs time to stall; the Republican country and all these countries that to the sponsor’s concerns. Leadership gives them time to stall. The gun watch our films? Violent films and TV This Hyde amendment stems from a lobby needs a little misdirection and programming are notoriously popular laudable purpose and high hopes. We scapegoating, no problem. The Republican in Japan, yet the Japanese thrive in a must stop the prevalence of juvenile vi- Leadership is happy to accommodate. society with a very low crime rate. olence just as we must stop destruction Today, the gentleman from Illinois will move The obvious answer is the avail- by gang members. Yet the Constitution an amendment that is a new twist on the NRA ability of guns and lack of common tells us we cannot do this by curtailing mantra, ‘‘guns don’t kill people . . . George sense control laws in our country. And expression under the First Amend- Orwell does. Guns don’t kill people . . . Ste- it is exactly that which the Republican ment. ven Speilberg does.’’ ‘‘Guns don’t kill people leadership has contrived to have us not Courts have consistently found defi- . . . Verdi and Puccini do.’’ As a parent, I am be able to deal with because of the nitions for violence to be vague. For in- just as concerned about exposing my children NRA, the tobacco, and other lobbyists stance, in this bill we address ‘‘sadistic to media violence, but tearing up the Constitu- that are so supportive of their political or masochistic flagellation.’’ Would a tion is not the way to do it. I share Chairman efforts. film about slavery have to cut scenes Hyde’s motives to protect children but let’s Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, could of slaves being whipped, creating the have a serious discussion on the safety of our we be advised of the time allotted to appearance that there were no violent children and not a replay of Fahrenheit 451 both sides? acts done towards slaves? Producers which, by the way, would be banned under The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman most certainly delete these scenes sim- this amendment. from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) continues to ply to play it safe. Are children to be In the end, my colleagues, this House will have 11 minutes remaining; and the led to believe that slavery was not produce a messy bill, which will have great dif- gentleman from California (Mr. BER- cruel? We cannot teach our children ficulty clearing the Senate or the President’s MAN) has 171⁄2 minutes remaining. about societal issues if we are not al- signature. And this is exactly what the gun Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield lowed to give them a depiction of it. Ig- lobby and the Republican House wants. 1 minute to the gentleman from Arkan- norance is not the answer. Meanwhile, more children will suffer. sas (Mr. HUTCHINSON). The bill also defines violent material I urge my colleagues to reject the Hyde Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I as torture by or upon a person. Again, amendment. want to express my appreciation to the this vague and overbroad definition Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield gentleman from Illinois for his diligent steps into a black hole. Every kid likes 2 minutes to the gentleman from Cali- work on a very important issue. I am watching the super hero catch his vil- fornia (Mr. WAXMAN). concerned about the second amend- lain. Look at Spiderman, Wonder Mr. WAXMAN. Mr. Chairman, it is ment, but I am also concerned about Woman and Batman and Robin. Are amazing to me how the Republican the first amendment. these the characters the sponsors are leadership seeks to deal with difficult If we look at this amendment, it really afraid of? and important issues. Their solution to criminalizes the selling or loaning or

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00063 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13139 showing to a minor a book or printed As we attempt to reach consensus on how bies. Beginning in early May, the CDs will be matter that includes explicit violent to protect our children, can we rise above par- included in more than one million Enfamil material, which is defined, in part, by tisan rhetoric and focus on the means to re- Diaper Bags given to new mothers as they torture by or upon a person, among duce youth violence in our country? The gen- leave the hospital. The Enfamil brand is contributing $3 mil- other things. We have to apply clearly tleman from Illinois attempts solutions which lion over the next three years to help estab- the community standards in applying threaten to undermine our basic freedoms. lish the Smart Symphonies initiative. The this definition, which I believe is The Chairman of the House Republican En- contribution will be used to further research vague, but this is the type of govern- tertainment Industry Task Force has high- the effect of classical music on brain devel- ment chilling effect that is harmful to lighted the dangerous implications of this opment in early childhood, and to assist in freedom in our society. amendment which would ‘‘dramatically in- bringing classical music to more families. For that reason, I reluctantly oppose crease the power of the federal government in This year, more than one million Smart this amendment. I do hope that we can far too many areas’’ (from Mr. Foley’s press Symphonies CDs will reach parents and release, June 15, 1999). The amendment’s newborns throughout the country. have hearings to move forward in this ‘‘There are few things more important area in a manner that does not violate definition of violence would affect not only than giving our children every scientific and and do damage to our first amendment. many comic books, video games, and movies, cultural advantage possible. The Recording The book sellers have raised ques- but it would also in fact, keep the Holy Bible Academy has dedicated itself to aggressively tions about books that it could jeop- out of the hands of children, as the Bible itself supporting research into the educational and ardize, and they realize there is a includes many narrative accounts of sadistic developmental benefits of music and helping harmfulness test. But as pointed out, or masochistic acts, torture by or upon a per- to put those findings to practical use,’’ said book sellers would not jeopardize them son, and acts of mutilation of the human body, Recording Academy President/CEO Michael Greene. ‘‘Partnering with Enfamil in the going to jail in order to make a deci- including, of course, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Stifling our expression and cultural ex- Smart Symphonies project is just another sion about these books. So there will example of how the Academy and NARAS be a chilling effect, and I think there is perience is not a solution but an equation for Foundation use the power of science and certainly a problem that the courts isolation and violence. music to give the youngest members of our would address. The amendment calls for a study of the ef- community a head start.’’ Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield fects of music on child development. Current Research indicates that babies uncon- myself 15 seconds. research indicates that children who are ex- sciously respond to the qualities of classical The gentleman from Arkansas makes posed to the arts perform 30% better aca- music—rhythm, melody and harmony. The a very good point. Ironically, when we demically. Another study on high risk elemen- relationships among these qualities make it tary students showed that children who partici- easier for infants to understand other kinds look at the definition of ‘‘depiction of of relationships later on—relationships of violence,’’ the one thing it does not in- pated in an arts program for one year gained time, space and sequence—skills that chil- clude is murder, mass murder, or 8 percentile points on standardized language dren need to be proficient in science, math bombing. None of those are included. It arts tests. The Smart Symphonies program ini- and problem solving. Findings also suggest all gets into sort of bizarre and weird tiated by the National Academy of Recording that good pitch discrimination is associated acts of mutilation and flagellation, but Arts and Sciences (NARAS) provides free with children learning to read by enhancing nothing about spraying a hundred peo- CD’s of classical music for infants in response the phonemic stage of learning.1 ple with assault weapons. to findings that show, among other things, that ‘‘The first year of life is a critical time for early exposure to classical music increases a development of both a baby’s mind and Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to body,’’ said Mead Johnson, Vice President of the gentlewoman from Missouri (Ms. child’s ability to learn math and science. We Pediatric Nutritionals, Michael P. MCCARTHY). need a national initiative to replicate and ex- Russomano. ‘‘For nearly 100 years, Enfamil Ms. MCCARTHY of Missouri. Mr. pand upon successful programs which further has been dedicated to children’s healthy Chairman, I thank the gentleman for enhance academic excellence and reduce growth and development. Through research yielding me this time. youth violence. we continue to strive to provide babies with The gentleman from Illinois at- We must encourage and allow parents to the best nutrition possible. Now through the tempts solutions to youth violence take an active role in teaching their children Smart Symphonies initiative, we hope to which threaten to undermine our basic right from wrong, and allow parents to make contribute further to babies’ brain develop- the decisions about what their children read, ment.’’ freedoms. The amendment calls for yet The NARAS Foundation and Enfamil con- another study of the effects of music listen to, and watch. The federal government sulted numerous experts in music and early on child development. The Smart Sym- should support funding of solutions that work, childhood development to choose several phonies Program, initiated by the Na- such as arts programs in our schools. The well-known classical selections for the tional Academy of Recording Arts and federal government should not infringe on indi- Smart Symphonies CD. The disc features 16 Sciences, provides classical music to vidual liberties. Therefore, I find it necessary classical favorites including Beethoven’s infants in response to what we already to vote ‘‘no’’ on Mr. HYDE’S amendment, and Symphony No. 8 in F major, Op. 93 (2nd know, that early exposure to classical I urge my colleagues to do the same. movement), Bach’s Prelude in D minor and Mr. Chairman, I submit for the Mozart’s Concerto for 2 Pianos & Orch, K 365 music increases a child’s ability to (3rd movement). RECORD documents highlighting the learn to read, and to be proficient in ‘‘Music enriches our lives and it often math and science. Smart Symphonies program I referred touches us emotionally; moreover, music can We need not more studies but a na- to earlier and other materials impor- help our children to think, reason and be cre- tional initiative to replicate and ex- tant to this issue: ative,’’ said John W. Flohr, professor of pand upon successful programs which BABIES TO BENEFIT FROM ‘‘SMART music at Texas Woman’s University, Denton further enhance academic excellence SYMPHONIES’’ TX. ‘‘Research indicates brain activity is and reduce youth violence. We must The NARAS Foundation, the non-profit also affected by the style of music.2, 3 Many researchers believe classical may be particu- encourage and allow parents to take an music education and preservation arm of the National Academy of Recording Arts & larly effective.’’ active role in teaching their children Sciences, and Mead Johnson Nutritionals, The NARAS Foundation is a non-profit or- right from wrong and allow parents to maker of Enfamil infant formula, announced ganization dedicated to helping restore make the decisions about what chil- today the launch of Smart Symphonies, a dren read, listen to and watch. national program designed to raise aware- 1 Lamb, SJ and Gregory AH. The relationship be- The Federal Government should sup- ness of the benefits of exposing infants to tween music and reading in beginning readers. Edu- port funding for solutions that work, classical music. cational Psychology. 1993; 13:19–26. The cornerstone of the program is a new, 2 Flohr JW and Miller DC. ‘‘What’s going on in such as arts programs in our schools. there? Music and brain research with young chil- The Federal Government should not in- specially created compact disc entitled Smart Symphonies, which features Grammy- dren.’’ Connections. Austin: Music Educators Na- tional Conference, Texas Music Educators Con- fringe on individual liberties. winning classical music. Scientists and early I intend to vote ‘‘no’’ on this amend- ference. 1998; 12(3):10–13. childhood development experts say that re- 3 Fagen J, Prigot J, Carroll, M, Pioli L, Stein A, ment, and I urge my colleagues to do cent studies indicate playing classical music and Franco A. Music aids memory retrieval in in- the same. can help stimulate brain development in ba- fants. Child Development. 1997; 68(6):1057–1066.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00064 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13140 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 music education to all schools across Amer- ference in the affairs of commerce and our 36. Anne Rice’s best-selling works (depicts ica and works to ensure access to the na- personal lives. Instead, this reckless proposal sadomasochism). tion’s rich music history. In partnership would dramatically increase the power of the 37. ‘‘Roots’’ (depicts torture and sadism). with the National Academy of Recording federal government in far too many areas.’’ 38. ‘‘Saving Private Ryan’’ (depicts sa- Arts & Sciences and its chapters throughout The task force was originally formed by dism). the country, the NARAS Foundation engages the late Rep. Sonny Bono (R–CA) to forge 39. Nathaniel Hawthorne’s ‘‘The Scarlet in a variety of cultural, professional and edu- closer ties between Republicans and the mo- Letter’’ (depicts self-flagellation). cational activities designed to enhance tion picture, music and other entertainment- 40. ‘‘Schindler’s List’’ (depicts torture and music education and preserve recorded musi- oriented industries. sadism). cal legacy. HOW MANY OF THESE WORKS COULD BE IN- 41. Verdi’s ‘‘Ostello’’ (depicts mutilation) Mead Johnson Nutritionals is a world lead- CLUDED IN A GOVERNMENT-IMPOSED BAN ON Ostello strangles his own wife with his bare er in nutrition, recognized for developing and VIOLENT OR SEXUALLY SUGGESTIVE MATE- hands. marketing quality products that meet the RIALS? 42. Tennessee Williams ‘‘Streetcar Named nutritional and lifestyle needs of children 1. George Orwell’s ‘‘1984’’ (depicts torture). Desire’’ (depicts rape). and adults of all ages. Mead Johnson 2. ‘‘The Accused’’ with Jodie Foster (de- 43. Billie Holiday’s ‘‘Strange Fruit’’ (de- Nutritionals is a Bristol-Myers Squibb Com- picts rape). picts lynching). pany. Bristol-Myers Squibb is a diversified 3. ‘‘The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pitt- 44. Terence Malick’s ‘‘The Thin Red Line’’ worldwide health and personal care company man’’ with Cicely Tyson (depicts sadism)— (depicts sadism). whose principal businesses are pharma- and, indeed, any work about slavery. 45. Clint Eastwood’s ‘‘Unforgiven’’ (depicts ceuticals, consumer products, beauty care, 4. ‘‘The Bible’’ (depicts mutilation, includ- rape). nutritionals and medical devices. ing the crucifixion itself, as well as rape, tor- 46. Frank Sinatra and Kurt Weil’s ‘‘Mack ture and sadism). the Knife’’ (depicts acts of mutilation). FOLEY HIGHLIGHTS DANGEROUS IMPLICATIONS 5. Toni Morrison’s ‘‘Beloved’’ (depicts sa- 47. Linda Ronstadt’s ‘‘Tumbling Dice’’ (de- OF GOVERNMENT RESTRICTIONS INCLUDED IN dism, mutilation and rape). picts rape). ‘‘CULTURAL’’ BILL 6. Toni Morrison’s ‘‘The Bluest Eve’’ (de- 49. E.L. Doctorow’s ‘‘Ragtime’’ (depicts Many mainstream films, CDS, video picts rape). multilation)—character is beaten to death games, books and other materials would be 7. Edgar Allan Poe’s ‘‘The Cask of Amon- onstage. banned for teenagers under legislation about tillado’’ (depicts torture). 50. Puccini’s ‘‘Tosca’’ (depicts torture and to be considered by the House of Representa- 8. Stanley Kubrick’s ‘‘A Clockwork Or- mutilation)—the main character, tives. The Chairman of the Republican En- ange’’ (depicts rape and sadism). Cavaradossi, is tortured by Scarpia. Tosca tertainment Industry Task Force, Rep. Mark 9. Alice Walker’s ‘‘The Color Purple’’ (de- also kills Scarpia by stabbing and commits Foley (R–FL), held a news conference to picts rape). suicide. highlight the dangerous implications various 10. Dostoevsky’s ‘‘Crime and Punishment’’ Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 cultural provisions could have on our soci- (depicts sadism)—and indeed, any work minutes to the gentleman from Cali- ety. about violent crime. fornia (Mr. HUNTER). Foley said the legislation would do little 11. ‘‘Death and the Maiden’’ (depicts tor- Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, I thank to combat youth violence. ‘‘Most of the pro- ture)—and, indeed any work about torture as visions in this bill are desperate attempts to human rights violation. the gentleman from Illinois for yield- make Congress look like it is doing some- 12. Donizetti’s ‘‘Lucia de Lamamoor’’ (de- ing me this time, and I want to salute thing, no matter how unworkable, to respond picts mutilation) Lucia kills her fiance, ap- him as one of the giants in this body to the tragedy in Littleton,’’ Foley said. ‘‘In pears onstage in a bloody dress, usually with and a Member who has distinguished fact, the legislation—while well-intended—is a dagger and kills herself. himself by seeing things many times little more than a hodge-podge of phony so- 13. Waris Dirie’s recent account of female much more clearly than the rest of us. lutions which won’t stop violent activity genital mutilation. Let me just say to all of my col- among America’s young people.’’ 14. Anthony Mingholla’s ‘‘The English Pa- leagues who have talked about those ‘‘To suggest that the federal government tient’’ (depicts torture). has a role in manipulating what kind of 15. ‘‘Ghandi’’ (depicts beatings)—and in- who would be inconvenienced by this music kids listen to, what kind of video deed, any work about nonviolent resistance legislation. Legislation does tend to in- games they play or what kind of books or to violence. convenience people. And in deter- magazines they read is unrealistic,’’ Foley 16. ‘‘Gone With The Wind’’ (depicts rape). mining that we are going to pass legis- said. ‘‘Furthermore, the government has no 17. ‘‘Hansel and Gretel’’ (depicts sadism). lation and inconvenience some people business trying to supplant the role of par- 18. Thomas Pynchon’s ‘‘Gravity Rainbow’’ so that we might do a service for oth- ents in raising their children.’’ (depicts sadomasochism). ers, we establish a priority list. Foley pointed out that virtually all of the 19. Homer’s ‘‘Iliad’’ and ‘‘Odyssey’’ (depicts provisions in the legislation are either un- sadism). I have heard on the other side of this workable, unconstitutional or simply unnec- 20. Dante’s ‘‘Inferno’’ (depicts torture). argument an interesting priority list. essary. In many instances, the bill is so 21. ‘‘The Killing Fields’’ (depicts torture)— It seems to be the same time after broadly drafted it could make it illegal for and indeed, any work about war. time. First, we have to worry about the minors to view or listen to a vast range of 22. Shakespeare’s ‘‘King Lear’’ (depicts mu- vendor at the 7–Eleven. That is a per- films, music, and reading material which few tilation). son we really have to be concerned would find inappropriate for teenagers. 23. Stephen King’s best-selling works (de- about. Of course, we do not worry ‘‘This bill would allow federal authorities picts torture and mutilation). about that vendor when we establish to prosecute retail outlets, libraries or video 24. Yeat’s ‘‘Leda and the Swan’’ (depicts rental stores to lend, sell or rent a teenager rape). criminal sanctions for selling ciga- great films like Ben Hur, Lawrence of Ara- 25. ‘‘Life is Beautiful’’ (depicts sadism)— rettes to minors because it might dam- bia, and The Color Purple,’’ Foley said. and indeed any work about the Holocaust. age their lungs, but we should really ‘‘More recent films like Rocky, Indiana 26. ‘‘Little Red Riding Hood’’ (depicts sa- worry about that vendor if we are sell- Jones & the Temple of Doom, and dism). ing stuff that might damage their Schindler’s List would be illegal for minors 27. ‘‘Marathon Man’’ with Dustin Hoffman minds and damage their souls. In that to view.’’ (depicts torture and sadism). case the vendor has to be the number ‘‘I find it stunning that some in this Con- 28. Ovid’s ‘‘Metamorphoses’’ (depicts rape). gress would have the federal government 29. Unberto Eco’s ‘‘The Name of the Rose’’ one person on our priority list to be make criminals out of those who would allow (depicts self-flagellation). concerned about. teenagers to read certain books, listen to 30. ‘‘Oedipus Rex’’ (depicts self mutilation). Secondly, of course, the recording certain music or view a broad range of 31. ‘‘Ordinary People’’ (depicts self-mutila- artist. We have to be very concerned films,’’ Foley said. ‘‘It is very likely that the tion). about them. We have to be very con- government would be given broad new pow- 32. ‘‘The Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe’’ cerned about the distributors. And I ers to prosecute a bookstore owner for sell- (depicts flagellation). presume we should be very concerned ing any number of books, the manager of a 33. Kafka’s ‘‘The Penal Colony’’ (depicts about those who write the PAC checks. discount store for selling certain video torture). games or compact discs, or a museum for dis- 34. Edgar Allan Poe’s ‘‘The Pit and the Finally, at the bottom of our concern playing certain works of art.’’ Pendulum’’ (depicts torture). list, our priority list, are the children ‘‘As a Republican, I thought our party was 35. Tina Turner’s ‘‘Rock Me, Baby’’ (de- and maybe a little bit below them the committed to lessening government inter- picts sexual material). family.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00065 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13141 I understand that this is complex leg- do our jobs for us. There is a difference video games wherever they are played, islation. All of those of us who have between assigning blame and assuming all too often fill young hearts and tried cases involving freedom of speech responsibility. Assigning blame is not minds with a poisonous effluent. Vio- understand that. But we can work our going to bring back the children who lence is glorified and graphic stable way through this. This is excellent leg- were senselessly and tragically taken families are ridiculed or ignored. Au- islation. It goes to the heart of the from us in Colorado and Georgia. But thority figures, including parents, are problem that is hurting America right in assuming responsibility, we might mocked. Religion is deemed irrelevant. now. Let us pass the Hyde amendment. proceed toward better legislation and Right and wrong are relative. Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield prevent another Littleton in the fu- Entertainment executives need to as- 1 minute to the gentleman from Mis- ture. sume some responsibility for under- souri (Mr. HULSHOF). Unfortunately, too much of the juve- mining American values whether they Mr. HULSHOF. Mr. Chairman, if I be- nile justice legislation is about blame intended to do so or not. They can lieved that passing one additional law and too little about responsibility. change our culture for the better sim- or a library filled with law books would What I would like to see, however, is ply by agreeing to turn their micro- prevent incidences of school violence in legislation that does not attack the phones and cameras in a different di- America, I would stand here and lead Bill of Rights but instead deals with rection. This provision gives them that the charge. the root causes of juvenile crime, in- opportunity. cluding the reduction in poverty, im- Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, it gives b 1630 me special pleasure to yield 11⁄2 min- provement of education and mental utes to the gentleman from Florida But the fact is the answer to school health and the development of job op- (Mr. SCARBOROUGH). violence in America is not here in portunities for decent wages. Washington. The answer to tragedies Mr. SCARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, I would like to see legislation that I thank the gentleman for yielding me like Littleton, Colorado are found in will attack the problem that our juve- Littleton, Colorado. the time. nile court judge back home talks I regretfully rise to oppose this Were it in my power, Mr. Chairman, about, where he has to release kids to amendment, and I do so despite the I would urge this body to adjourn and the street who are functionally insane fact I have the greatest respect for the urge all Members to go home to have and a threat to the society. I believe gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE). listening sessions with students home that that would be something which we Like him, I believe we should have from student breaks, to encourage par- could do that would be really impor- more control over the content of what ents to get more involved in raising tant. We are in the unusual position on our children watch. My concern is giv- their kids. the juvenile justice bill of having a leg- ing that control to Washington, D.C. My sentiment on this issue is just as islative process which usually works Now, if the gentleman from Illinois strong today as it will be during to- with the Senate stepping in after the (Mr. HYDE) were around to police and morrow’s debate. And just as I believe House acts to calm the passions of this interpret these broad guidelines in the it is inappropriate to point the barrel body. future regarding the first amendment, of the gun at manufacturers or at law- Today the House appears eager to I would be more at ease. Regretfully, abiding citizens who enjoy the protec- join in trouncing the amendments to though, he will not. I fear the law of tions of the second amendment, I be- the Constitution. I ask my colleagues unintended consequences will kick in lieve it is equally inappropriate to to vote ‘‘no’’ and to protect the cher- and the Federal Government’s further train the lens of the video camera on ished constitutional rights. involvement in the first amendment the entertainment industry or those Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 will prove troublesome. that are enjoying their first amend- minutes to the distinguished gen- We have the best of intentions today ment rights. tleman from Texas (Mr. SMITH). working around the first amendment, Regrettably, I ask for a vote of ‘‘no’’ Mr. SMITH of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I just like tomorrow we will have the on the Hyde amendment. thank the chairman of the Committee best of intentions working around the Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am on the Judiciary for yielding me the second amendment. But, regretfully, I pleased to yield 2 minutes to the gen- time. think both efforts are misguided. And I tleman from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL). Mr. Chairman, there is no greater re- would hope my friends who are so ea- Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I rise sponsibility than raising a child. It gerly defending the first amendment in reluctant opposition to this amend- does not help parents when children today will just as eagerly defend the ment, and I rise in support of the first are besieged by graphic violence, pro- second amendment tomorrow, because amendment. Tomorrow I will be rising miscuous sex, and foul language on TV, I believe, like the gentleman from Mis- in defense of the second amendment. in the movies, in music, and on video souri (Mr. HULSHOF), that the answers At the rate this Congress is going, by games. to Littleton, Colorado lie not in Wash- the Fourth of July, we will probably Ironically, current laws actually pre- ington, D.C., but in listening sessions have successfully trampled upon the vent entertainment industry execu- at home, by more engaged parents and entirety of the Bill of Rights. tives from meeting to create a vol- by prayerful communities that once I do love my good friend the gen- untary code of conduct on the grounds again turn their focus back to God. Regretfully, I do oppose this amend- tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), the that such meetings might hinder com- ment and ask my friends to do the author of the amendment. And I want petition. same and vote ‘‘no.’’ to pay him my great respect and affec- To solve this problem, I introduced Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am tion, he is a wonderful gentleman and a bipartisan legislation this Congress pleased to yield 1 minute to the gentle- valuable Member of this body, and also that would grant a narrow exception to woman from California (Ms. LOFGREN). to other Members on both sides of the current laws that bar such meetings. Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, I aisle. I am satisfied that they are doing The entertainment industry should think this amendment is a good exam- what they believe is right, and I believe have the opportunity to meet and dis- ple of why it is too bad that we have that these are sincere and well-inten- cuss voluntary standards that could short-circuited the committee process. tioned efforts. But I believe that the help improve the content of television, I actually have a very strong interest amendment is flawed and, in all prob- movies, music, and video games. in seeing whether we may extend the ability, unconstitutional. I thank the gentleman from Illinois obscenity statutes to violence. We know the difficulty of trying to (Mr. HYDE) for including this provision After all, what is more dangerous, define exactly what materials may be in the amendment to protect children sex or violence? offensive or harmful or dangerous. In from the culture of violence. As the mother of two teenagers, con- any event, I do not think it is the busi- The small screen and CD at home, cerned about violence, I have a legiti- ness of the Congress to let the courts the large screen in the theaters, and mate interest in an amendment that

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00066 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13142 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 would deal with violence. But I look at Colorado and Georgia; and, like most I tell my colleagues, as a prosecutor, this amendment and I see it will in- people, we must all work to ensure a I would stop and say, huh, what exactly stantly be declared unconstitutional. similar event does not occur again. is it he is asking me to prosecute? How Taking a look at the legislative The amendment before us has signifi- can I prosecute such a case as this? drafting on the first page, as someone cant constitutional repercussion. And I am a mother of a 16-year-old, and I who works with the Internet a lot, I while the chairman raises significant am concerned about him, too. But it is can see that this proposal closely pat- questions, not one hearing on this new my responsibility, not Congress’, to de- terns the Communications Decency legal concept that violence is obscenity cide what violent material we should Act, which the Supreme Court declared has occurred, and that has been par- be taking from our children and not al- unconstitutional. ticularly disappointing to me. lowing them to see. I must say that I am concerned, if As a father, I share the chairman’s So, as a mother and a prosecutor, I this were to pass as written, we would determination to keep violence and ob- rise in opposition to this amendment. be in the awkward situation of telling scenity out of the hands of our Nation’s Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I am my teens that whoever sold them children. But look at the volumes of pleased to yield 1 minute to the gen- ‘‘Shakespeare In Love’’ on a video case law on obscenity. All the laws and tleman from Georgia (Mr. DEAL). would be subject to criminal sanctions, judges’ opinions in the world have not Mr. DEAL of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, and whoever sold them ‘‘Attack D.C. 9’’ done very well in ridding our society of today’s amendment focuses on the cul- would not. I think that is preposterous. obscenity. We need to change people’s ture of violence that has saturated our Chairman HYDE has asserted that his hearts and minds. If we do, the power society. amendment would not bar the selling of a film of consumers and the marketplace will While some would argue that tele- like ‘‘Shakespeare in Love’’ to minors because be more powerful than any law we vision, the Internet, satellite trans- the film has ‘‘redeeming social value’’, the could pass. missions, movies, and video games standard utilized in the analysis of sexually ex- The amendment before us tramples have not contributed to this culture of plicit material. on the first amendment. I urge a ‘‘no’’ violence, I disagree. I believe their mis- It would appear, however, that Chairman vote. use has desensitized all of us by mak- Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I am HYDE is not familiar with his own amendment. ing murder, rape, assault, and mayhem pleased to yield 1 minute to the distin- Nowhere within his amendment may those appear commonplace and acceptable guished gentleman from California words be found. Instead, the standard found in through the process of repetition and (Mr. BILBRAY). overexposure. section 1471 includes material that, with re- Mr. BILBRAY. Mr. Chairman, I have To claim that the first amendment spect to minors, is designed to appeal or pan- a 14-year-old boy who confronted me renders us powerless to deal with this der to the prurient, shameful or morbid inter- with the fact that he was able to get in issue is to claim that our Bill of Rights est, as well as material that is patently offen- his hand, because he found some vid- is static, such as never has been the sive and not suitable for minors and material eos, a material that he, as a 14-year- case. Just as the Bill of Rights is flexi- which ‘‘lacks serious literary, artistic, political old, knew was obscene violence. or scientific value for minors’’. There is going to be a lot of debate ble enough to prevent the innovative I think it is clear that the winner of this about the Bill of Rights today and to- and technology-enhanced intrusions of year’s academy awards, a movie rated ‘‘R’’ for morrow. But all I have got to say is government on the rights of individ- a reason, would run afoul of the Hyde amend- that those of my colleagues that so uals, it is, likewise, rationale enough ment. fear any one of the restrictions on any to prevent it from being used as a I repeat my distress that we would put be- one of the Bill of Rights, remember cloak to conceal and protect conduct hind bars those who sell a video of ‘‘Shake- that reasonable applications of restric- that is ultimately destructive to soci- speare in Love’’ to a teenager, but continue to tions do not threaten the Bill of ety as a whole. allow persons to sell a Tec–DC9 assault Rights, they reinforce and protect I urge the adoption of the amend- weapon to that same teenager. them. And I would ask my colleagues ment. As a mother of two teens, I have a genuine to understand that we have accepted, Every generation wrestles with the reality interest in seeing whether we could extend the as a society, that we do not accept sex- that the internal universe of society is con- obscenity laws to violence. But the Hyde ual obscenity to be sold to our chil- stantly expanding. Advances in technology amendment is not a serious effort to do that. dren. continue to push back the darkness of the un- Instead, it is a patently political attempt to try I praise the gentleman from Illinois known and open up new territories that were to discredit those who would stand up for the (Mr. HYDE) for being brave enough to hidden from the view of our ancestors. Our First Amendment as political cover for those confront us with the fact that violent generation has experienced an explosion of who, tomorrow, will misuse the Second obscenity should not be sold to our technologies—television, the Internet, satellite Amendment in an effort to protect the culture children either. transmissions, movies, video games, and cel- of gun violence and those who profit from gun I hear my colleagues who are out- lular telephones, to name a few. These have violence in America. raged at Joe Camel somehow getting expanded the scope of our childrens’ world far The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman our kids to smoke and demanding that beyond that which existed during our own from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has 71⁄2 min- that be stopped. But if they would see childhood. utes remaining. The gentleman from the videos and the VCRs and the other Even though the world in this last decade of California (Mr. BERMAN) has 101⁄2 min- information that our children are being the 20th century, as magnified by the informa- utes remaining. exposed to, then they would see what a tion age, is vastly different from the world of Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am 14-year-old would know; that obscene, our founding fathers in the last decade of the pleased to yield 1 minute to the gen- violent action should not be sold to our 18th century, we are firmly committed to main- tleman from Michigan (Mr. CAMP). children. taining the structure of order embodied by our Mr. CAMP. Mr. Chairman, I want to Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am founding fathers in our Constitution and Bill of thank the gentleman for yielding me pleased to yield 1 minute to the gentle- Rights. Today’s debate focuses on a culture of the time. woman from Ohio (Mrs. JONES). violence that has saturated our society. While Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I some will argue that the new technologies pre- the Hyde amendment. I have great re- rise in opposition to the Hyde amend- viously enumerated have not contributed to spect for the chairman of the Com- ment. this culture of violence, I disagree. I believe mittee on the Judiciary and his inten- Just before coming to Congress, I their misuse has desensitized all of us by tions, and I admire him for trying to do served as the Cuyahoga County pros- making murder, rape, assault and mayhem something about the violence which ecutor. It was my responsibility to appear commonplace and acceptable through pervades our culture and, more par- prosecute cases much similar to what the process of repetition and overexposure. If, ticularly, affects our young people. We the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) therefore, these advanced technologies, which were all horrified by the shootings in is proposing on this date. should be the tools for advancing civilization,

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00067 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 9920 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13143 have in fact nurtured primitive instincts of vio- Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, Mr. TAUZIN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in lence that are not compatible with making us I rise today in very strong support of opposition to the Hyde amendment, more civilized, the clear questions arises as to the intent and the purpose and the not because I oppose what the gen- what can government do to reverse this proc- goals of this legislation, but unfortu- tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) would ess without infringing on the individual liberties nately I am unable to support the leg- like to see in this country. I think all of our citizens’ islation, as drafted, and urge rather of us would like to see less violence, all To claim that the 1st Amendment renders than move forward and vote for H.R. of us would like to see less obscenity in us powerless to deal with this issue is to claim 2036, we defeat this amendment, this movies, all of us would like to see the that our Bill of Rights is static. Such has never bill, and move forward with a long- culture expressed in our media, on the been the case. Just as the Bill of rights is term study to really get to the bottom Internet and in the books and games flexible enough to prevent the innovative and of why these pieces of material, why and movies that our children watch to technology enhanced intrusions of government these materials are being marketed, be less violent and less obscene. on the rights of individuals, it is likewise ration- what is the relationship between these The problem basically, as I know has al enough to prevent it from being used as a materials being marketed and violence been expressed many times here, but I cloak to conceal and protect conduct that is ul- so that we can better craft a more nar- need to say it again as chairman of the timately destructive of the society as a whole. rowly focused and constitutionally Subcommittee on Telecommuni- I commend Chairman HYDE for his amend- sound piece of legislation. cations, Trade, and Consumer Protec- ment which applies the constitutionally sanc- I listened intently to the debate and tion whose principal responsibility is tioned constraints on obscenity to the matter have studied this issue extensively and to protect this free speech society, is of violence as directed at children. Since both find myself also in agreement with my that we cannot constitutionally do have adverse effects on society it is altogether colleague from California (Mr. ROGAN). this. We cannot constitutionally dic- appropriate for this Congress to confront our I cannot, and I do not think any of us tate the content of speech in America culture of violence in this orderly approach, can, escape the fact that ultimately it as much as we would like to, as emo- and I urge adoption of this amendment. is parents that have the ultimate con- tionally as I feel, as deeply as I hurt Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I ask trol over what our children see, hear when I see the scenes on television that unanimous consent that each side be and do, and we can pass all of the legis- we have seen of children killing chil- granted an additional 2 minutes; 2 min- lation we want that places all sorts of dren. utes for the gentleman from California restrictions, labeling, access to mate- I am reminded about that child at (Mr. BERMAN) and 2 minutes for us. rials that we want, but if parents allow Columbine who said, look, we all watch The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection their children to watch these mate- the same movies, we all play the same to the request of the gentleman from rials, if they allow them to listen to games, but we do not go around killing Illinois? these materials, as vile, as disgusting, our classmates. Go check with that There was no objection. as disgraceful, as obscene, as porno- family, go check with those kids, go check with that culture that these kids b 1645 graphic as they may be, it is the par- ents that have to assume ultimate re- grew up in, and do something about it. Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 sponsibility, and no amount of legisla- But do not think that because we see minute to the gentleman from Ten- tion that we can pass will do that, and these same movies we are going to end nessee (Mr. DUNCAN). I am afraid that, if we pass this legisla- up killing each other. We need to do Mr. DUNCAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in tion, it will set us back because I do something much more basic than regu- strong support of the Hyde amend- not think there is really any way that late free speech. ment. Senator MOYNIHAN said a few this can avoid being struck down, at Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 years ago that we have been defining least provisions of it, as being uncon- minutes to the gentleman from Florida deviancy down, accepting as a part of stitutional, and then we are back be- (Mr. WELDON). life what we once found repugnant. hind the 8 ball once again. Mr. WELDON of Florida. Mr. Chair- How true this is, and unfortunately it So I would urge all of our colleagues man, I rise in support of the amend- is becoming more so every day. who want, I believe on both sides of the ment, and I commend the chairman, I remember several months ago com- aisle, to address this problem of youth the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. ing home one Friday night and hearing violence, obscenity, to take a harder HYDE), for including antitrust protec- Barbara Walters say she was about to look at it, to work together, all of us, tion to the entertainment industry in show on 20/20 the most important pro- to try and craft a sounder piece of leg- order for them to establish a set of gram she had ever presented on tele- islation, but ultimately recognizing guidelines to help protect children vision. With her long career, I won- that unless the parents of America’s from harmful behavior. I was working dered what this could be. What it children take more of an interest in en- on introducing a bill to provide this turned out to be was a program warn- suring that their children do not type of antitrust protection, and I was ing parents about the warped, evil, sick watch, hear or read the material that extremely pleased to see the chairman things mainly of a violent or sexual na- we are trying to reach here, nothing include this in his amendment. ture available to children over the that we do is going to solve the prob- The National Association of Broad- Internet and on videos and tapes and so lem. casters had a code of conduct that they forth. We should all do whatever we So, again I urge defeat of this bill abided by until it was abandoned by can, even in a small way, to slow this and strong support for what it is trying the broadcasters in 1983. Since then flood of this toxic mind warping, sick, to do for future legislation. standards which broadcasters find ac- evil, violent, and obscene material that Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield ceptable have deteriorated. Eighty per- is reaching our children today. 30 seconds to the gentleman from Mas- cent of Americans have expressed con- This is one of the most important sachusetts (Mr. FRANK). cern about the increasingly graphic amendments we have ever had before Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. portrayals of sex, violence, vulgarity us in this House, and it is time to say Chairman, before the gentleman from and programming that sanctions and that enough is enough and that today Georgia leaves the floor, I just wanted glorifies criminal, antisocial and de- we started a new and better direction. to take this opportunity to express my grading behavior. The Hyde amend- As a judge who dealt with constitu- agreement with the gentleman from ment will permit the entertainment in- tional issues for 71⁄2 years before com- Georgia to help advance the legislative dustry to work collaboratively to de- ing to Congress, I urge support for this process and to satisfy all that hunger velop a set of voluntary programming very well-crafted amendment. for civility out there in the country. guidelines. This system worked well for Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield decades. It was not perfect, but it did 2 minutes to the gentleman from Geor- 1 minute to the gentleman from Lou- put the impetus on Hollywood to re- gia (Mr. BARR). isiana (Mr. TAUZIN). frain from exploiting the American

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00068 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13144 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 people and producing products that are which imports American movies. However, by putting the heavy hand of govern- directed toward the prurient interests Japan, which is a heavy importer of American ment on top of that. of our young people. films, has one of the lowest crime rates in the Vote against this amendment. Hollywood has cast aside responsi- world. Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 bility in recent years, and it is time I urge my colleagues to reject the Hyde seconds to the gentleman from Mary- that they respect traditional values. amendment. land (Mr. GILCHREST). The reestablishment of a code of con- Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I duct will enable the American people 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Illi- thank the gentleman for yielding this to know clearly where the entertain- nois (Ms. SCHAKOWSKY). time to me. I fully support this amend- ment industry falls on this issue. Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Chairman, ment and urge my colleagues to vote in Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield far from putting parents in charge, as favor of this amendment. This is not an such time as he may consume to the my esteemed colleague from Illinois assault on the First Amendment or gentleman from New York (Mr. NAD- has stated, his culture of violence freedom of speech. This is a courageous LER). amendment puts big brother squarely step to limit vulgarity and violence. Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I rise in in control of the games, art, movies, Let me take a second to talk about opposition to the Hyde amendment, books and other materials available to big brother, the Federal Government. which is a well-intended but flawed our children. No work of art, magazine The Federal Government helps parents proposal that does violence to the First or CD is exempt from government scru- protect their children from dirty air, Amendment. tiny. No sales clerk at Blockbuster, the Federal Government helps parents Mr. Chairman, I rise to oppose the Hyde ticket sales at the movies, librarian, protect their children from dirty amendment. museum employee would be free from water, the Federal Government helps While we must take action to address vio- the threat of a jail term. In fact, even parents protect their children’s equal lence in our schools and to save children’s if a parent explicitly consented to the rights. lives, some in Congress seem to feel that it purchase of materials deemed to be too So I think it is only incumbent upon should be more difficult to see a picture of a violent or obscene, that sales clerk is us for the Federal Government to help gun, than to go out and buy one. at risk. parents protect their children from This amendment is overly broad and uncon- This is big government at its worst, vulgar, violent videos. stitutionally vague. supported, it seems, by the same indi- Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I hate to It would take obscenity, which is removed viduals who rail against big govern- keep doing this to the gentleman from from First Amendment protections, and ex- ment. It is intrusion into the personal Hollywood, but people keep wandering pand its definition beyond the limits estab- lives of every American, a threat to up and wanting a little time. Would the lished by the Supreme Court. educational and artistic freedom, a di- gentleman endure one more unanimous In the process, it would create a federally rect assault on the First Amendment, consent request for 2 more minutes on imposed ban on the sale of certain material. It and above all, this amendment under- each side? would challenge retailers to decide whether or cuts the freedom which is at the core of Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, reserv- not a particular work has redeeming value. our American values. ing the right to object, I would simply This amendment would be incredibly difficult Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield like to point out to the gentleman, as to implement, lead to confusion for both the 1 minute to the gentleman from Cali- I have told him several times, that I creators and distributors of artistic works, and fornia (Mr. BECERRA). am from North Hollywood, not from could inadvertently chill free speech for adults Mr. BECERRA. Mr. Chairman, I Hollywood; and secondly, that I as well as children. thank the gentleman for yielding me thought last fall in the Committee on There is far too much violence in the media time. the Judiciary I was in Hollywood. today, but we must not compromise the First It is time for all America to come to- Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my res- Amendment in our efforts to protect our chil- gether collectively and say that we do ervation of objection. dren. Parents already have the right to deny wish to get rid of the violence, the ob- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection their children access to violent movies, music, scenity, that we see constantly on our to the request of the gentleman from magazines, and video games that they do not television, hear on radio, read in print, Illinois? find appropriate for their children. If we stop but I hope that we would turn away There was no objection. buying this violent material, people will stop from the proposals that would have us Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 selling it. create a new Federal cultural police minute to the gentleman from Cali- Many leaders in the arts and entertainment that would be empowered to determine fornia (Mr. GARY MILLER). community care deeply about the proliferation what is violent and what is sexual in Mr. GARY MILLER of California. Mr. of violent material and are taking steps to ad- the material that we will see, hear or Chairman, I rise in favor of the Hyde dress this problem. The media can and should read. amendment in H.R. 1501 as a whole be- also play a role in promoting nonviolent activi- With all due respect to the chairman cause we need to provide physical safe- ties, youth problem solving, and ways to avoid of the Committee on the Judiciary ty for our children, and we need to pro- gun violence. We can address excessive vio- whom I respect dearly, this is not the tect our children from the influence of lence in the media without trampling on our way to go. I have three young children, explicit, obscene material. First Amendment rights. and it is my responsibility, along with I support the Hyde amendments be- I will leave you with one final note. We my wife’s to make sure that they grow cause we need to do what we can to ought not to make the entertainment commu- up understanding what is right and protect our children from those who nity the scape goat for the massacre at Col- what is wrong and knowing when it is would sell them offensive material. Mi- umbine High School. Surely, this bill will not right to read, to listen, to watch and chael Carneal is currently in jail for effectively address school violence unless it hopefully teach them enough that they killing three students in 1997’s school also addresses youth access to guns. Popular will make the right decisions as they shooting in Paducah, Kentucky. Mi- films and music lyrics are not the root cause grow older. But for us to say that the chael was an avid computer user who of violence in our society and guns are far national government can do it better logged on to the Internet and immersed more deadly than any CD or video tape could than I can is to completely abandon his brain in the sexually material he ever be. As one Columbine senior pointed out, our values and our responsibilities. found there. Ever since the Clinton ad- if the media was at fault, then every one of the I would hope that we would learn ministration stopped all prosecution of 1,850 students at Columbine would all be kill- that the message we try to send to extremely violent and sexual pornog- ers because they all watch the same movies America is one of collectively getting raphy our children and those who prey and share in other types of entertainment. In together and resolving this issue of vio- upon them have had easy access to the fact, if films caused violence then one would lence that we see pervasively invading most disturbing, mind-impacting mate- expect crime rates to rise in every country our communities, but let us not do it rial. This amendment seeks to protect

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00069 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13145 the minds of our children by holding thing, I want to do the right thing, and The first and foremost of that was people who sell obscene material to I think that is passing reasonable the prohibition on the Federal Govern- children accountable and by evaluating measures and not overbilling the effect ment interfering with protected the impact of violent products on our that they have. speech. This seeks to strike at and children. I know one thing for sure, and that is criminalize protected speech. It is un- H.R. 1501 attempts to protect the ma- that to do this we have to touch the constitutional, and I think the Mem- jority of our children who make the minds and the hearts of our young peo- bers of this body should not support right choices from those who make the ple. We also have to touch what is and willingly pass a measure which has wrong choices by treating juveniles around them and what is entering their no chance whatsoever of being held up like adults, when they act like adults mind. That is why I am so supportive in the courts. and commit violent crimes by keeping of the Hyde amendment. I think it is a Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, how much guns out of the hands of juvenile crimi- very common-sense approach to an all- time remains? nals, and by making the largest com- too-common problem of criminals The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman munity investment in juvenile justice transmitting sexual and violent mate- from California (Mr. BERMAN) has 41⁄4 reform in history. rial to our children. minutes remaining; the gentleman There is never, ever, ever a reason for from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has 41⁄2 min- b 1700 pornography to reach the hands and utes remaining. Congress cannot make a perfect the hearts of our children, and we must Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield world, but we can empower families stop it, and this will do that. 1 minute to the gentleman from Massa- and communities to protect their chil- Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am chusetts (Mr. FRANK). dren. pleased to yield such time as she may Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield consume to the gentlewoman from Chairman, we could stress that there 1 minute to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. PELOSI). are important aspects of this amend- California (Ms. WATERS). Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Chairman, in order ment which are not controversial and Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, we are to protect my 5 children and my 4 which will be presented in other fo- all concerned about violence. However, grandchildren, I rise in opposition to rums: the antitrust exception, the I never dreamed that I would see the this frightening amendment, and I urge health-related study. chairman of the Committee on the Ju- my colleagues to vote ‘‘no.’’ One of the problems with this amend- diciary assault the Constitution in the Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield ment is we are not talking here only way this amendment does. myself 2 minutes. about fiction or things that people This amendment is outrageous and it Mr. Chairman, I think that given make up. This amendment covers de- does danger not only to the children of that this measure did not have the pictions of the truth. This amendment this society, but to all of the citizens of scrutiny of the Committee on the Judi- covers depictions of unpleasant events. this society. I say to the gentleman ciary and a chance to fine-tune it, I This amendment does not exempt the from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), we are not think it pays to take just a minute or news, if it is presented for commercial going back to burning books, we are two to sum up a few of the criticisms of purposes. What this amendment does is not going to lock people up for artistic the piece of legislation in front of us. introduce an element of censorship by expression. The Constitution of the First of all, it is not just about mo- the Federal Government into the pres- United States guarantees us freedom of tion pictures, it is not just about tele- entation by the media, as long as they expression. We cannot violate the Con- vision, it is not just about musical re- are not working for free, and none of stitution in the name of wanting to do cordings; it applies to books, to pam- them are that I have ever met; it intro- something about violence. phlets, to magazines, to drawings, to duces this element of Federal censor- What we should be doing is using our photographs, to sculptures. ship into the media’s depiction of un- power to assist families and children Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, it pleasantness. and to help parents, many of whom are seeks to translate the obscenity for- Yes, we should treat 16-year-olds and working, to deal with the problems of mula grafted onto depictions of vio- 15-year-olds seriously. Shielding them, young people in a considered way. I am lence and federalize the entire matter, screening them through a Federal proc- absolutely outraged by the fact that and then claim to provide community ess before they hear about some of the one of the best legal minds in this standards so that a particular sculp- terrible things that go on in the world, House would bring this trash to the ture or movie or picture or book may torture is part of the world. These floor of the Congress of the United have one standard and be quite fine for things are part of what goes on. I do States of America. It is outrageous and sale to minors in Manhattan, New not want people portraying what hap- it should be defeated. York, and not in eastern Montana or in pened in Kosovo and helping explain Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I am Jackson, Mississippi. A law which why we were in there militarily to pleased to yield 1 minute to the gentle- seeks to federalize the criminal con- have to check with the Federal stat- woman from Texas (Ms. GRANGER) in duct of selling inappropriate depiction utes before they decide how they can support of this trash. of minor children, depictions of vio- present this to 16-year-olds. Ms. GRANGER. Mr. Chairman, in the lence to minors, and at the same time Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I am wake of Littleton, I think many of us decentralize community standards all pleased to yield 1 minute to the distin- are prepared to produce solutions and across the country is going to have to guished gentleman from Youngstown, often guarantee that they will save fall as vague, impermissibly broad, and Ohio (Mr. TRAFICANT). America. Well, I am going to say that setting up an absence of adequate no- Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, no it is more than gun control, it is more tice to any single person who might be one perhaps in the history of this body than all that we are looking at; it is regulated. knows or understands or has fought to less violence on television, it is more of Thirdly, it exonerates the producers uphold constitutional rights better the culture of guns and the culture of of this; it criminalizes the activity of than our chairman, the gentleman violence, and we have to address the the vendors. from Illinois (Mr. HYDE). Evidently, in culture of our country. Fourth, in response to the gentleman listening to this debate, the gentleman To be honest, I do not know what the from Maryland, yes, the Federal Gov- from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has decided to solution is and neither does anybody ernment spends a great deal of time challenge some of the interpretations else. I know that we do not today want protecting the clean air and the health by some appointed judges who have to confuse motion with action. I am and the welfare of the population, but maybe unknowingly or without mean- afraid too many of us are anxious to be a long time ago, we decided there were ing protected the rights of many mur- seen doing just something about youth some limits on what the Federal Gov- derers, while leaving a wake of victims violence. I do not want to do some- ernment could do. in cemetery plots all over America.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00070 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13146 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 The first amendment was never in- dren the way we want them to be U.S. 629: ‘‘A legislature could properly tended to promote harm. I join today raised. If we do not raise them with conclude that parents and others who with the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. some respect, if we do not make them have primary responsibility for chil- HYDE), the chairman of our Committee turn off the TV when it is time, if we dren’s well-being are entitled to the on the Judiciary, on the floor of this do not say to them that this is wrong, support of laws designed to aid dis- House in that challenge of interpreta- that there should not be any violence, charge of that responsibility.’’ tions by judges that we as Members of and the Bible says thou shalt not kill. I would like to tell my friend, the Congress should have a say in creating So why is it that we will sit here in gentlewoman from California (Ms. those laws and, when necessary, chal- this Congress feeling that we have such LOFGREN) that ‘‘Shakespeare in Love’’ lenging those decisions. I want to ap- a noble position that we can put laws has redeeming artistic quality. It does plaud our chairman for the courage to in that will mandate morality and help not fit in this definition, although come out here and take the shots of at- us teach our children when we are not there is a gratuitous sex scene in it tacking our Constitution. He has never teaching them ourselves? which, if your children saw it, they done that. I say to my colleagues, as a grand- might think it is normal and accept- Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, could I mother of 6 and a mother of 3, that this able, and I guess maybe the gentle- inquire as to the remaining time on is wrong, I say to the gentleman from woman might think it is too. I do not. both sides? Illinois. This Constitution, as much as b 1715 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman the gentleman wants it to help, he is from California (Mr. BERMAN) has 31⁄4 violating it by putting this in the stat- But the movie could be shown with- minutes remaining; the gentleman utes of this country. out any problem because if you read from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has 31⁄2 min- So I ask this Congress to please op- the bill, if you read the definition, it utes remaining. pose and vote against the Hyde amend- would have to be utterly without any Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield ment. redeeming social value. 1 minute to the gentleman from Cali- Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield Now, for 40 years Congress has been fornia (Mr. DOOLEY). our remaining time to the gentleman wrestling with this problem, 40. Do Mr. DOOLEY of California. Mr. from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS), the Members know what it has come up Chairman, I rise in strong opposition ranking member of the Committee on with? Nothing. Nothing. We posture, to this amendment. Once again, we are the Judiciary. we pass resolutions, viewing with going down a path where we are going Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I want alarm, but the entertainment industry to be asking the government to set to thank the gentleman from Cali- gets away literally with murder. some standards on what really does fornia (Mr. BERMAN) and my colleagues All we are doing is saying that ob- constitute violence, and what will have who have spoken here today. scenity for 40 years has not been pro- the impact of encouraging our children In a way, I think we all realize the tected by the First Amendment. We are to engage in behavior that could be de- importance and significance of this saying some of this violence is as egre- structive to other families and to our amendment offered by the Chairman of gious and horrible and vulgar and society. the Committee on the Judiciary, the harmful as sexual obscenity. Why con- But I also take exception to that, be- gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), be- fine the proscription just to sexual ob- cause as a father of two teenage daugh- cause it is a watershed. Either we are scenity? Why not to mutilation? Why ters, I know that at times they are ex- to overlook the existing case law, the not to sadomasochism? Why not to posed to violent movies and other first amendment as most of us appre- flagellation? Why not to rape? forms of violence that could be de- ciate it, and move in a very overreac- Those are four specific categories, structive to them. But they do not act tive way to deal with the cultural as- and only four, that we say ought not to out in a violent way. It is because my pects of the problem of youth violence, be protected by the First Amendment. wife Linda and I have done the job of or we do not. And it is clear to me that If that is doing violence to the Con- instilling the values in them that allow this debate has put on record that in stitution, I have never read that docu- them to be exposed to this material this area I can proudly associate my- ment. and still make the right choices. self with the views of the majority of So let us do something, not do noth- It is, quite frankly, a cop-out for par- the Members of this House of Rep- ing. It is my opinion that what hap- ents and families and people to accuse resentatives. pened in Littleton, Colorado, and what people who are perhaps putting to- Now, in addition and over and above happened in Conyers, Georgia, cannot gether information or videos or dif- the constitutional problems, let us not be solved by one more gun law. There ferent material as being the cause of rush to judgment on this quote, Holly- were 15 Federal laws having to do with widespread violence that is leading to wood phenomenon. Let us recognize guns and ammunition that were vio- so much trouble in our communities. that the V chips, let parents block out lated by these two assailants in Colo- Once again, the responsibility lies television programs; that movies have rado, and seven State laws. Is our an- with the families, with the community ratings. swer to pile a couple of more laws on? that supports the principles and the Mr. Valenti has told us that he is No. Let us examine what it is in the values of our country, and we should putting the word out that the House of psyches of these young people that oppose this amendment. Representatives and the Committee on made them want to kill, the culture of Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield the Judiciary are not taking the cul- death. There is something missing. We 1 minute to the gentlewoman from tural problem lightly. Please join us in have to look at it. Anybody that does Florida (Mrs. MEEK). turning back an amendment that thinks rotten movies, rotten tele- Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- would be unworkable and likely uncon- vision, rotten video games are not poi- man, I rise to ask for the defeat of the stitutional. soning, toxically poisoning our kids’ Hyde amendment. With all of the re- Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- minds and making some kids think spect each of us has for the gentleman self my remaining time. that conduct is acceptable just is not from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), he is not an Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I want to paying attention. Oracle of Delphi when it comes to the thank the gentleman from Michigan I cannot match the Political Action Constitution of this country. (Mr. CONYERS) and the gentleman from Committees of the entertainment in- The Constitution of this country California (Mr. BERMAN) for a very civil dustry, but I will tell the Members, gives us a right as parents to make our and I think enlightening debate, and there are a lot of parents who need youngsters behave. That is what we some of the other, not all, but some of help. My friend, the gentleman from have done wrong in this country. We the other participants. Georgia (Mr. BARR) said it is up to the think that this law, no other law can I would like to read from Ginsberg v. parents. If Members can watch their protect us, if we do not raise our chil- New York, a Supreme Court case, 390 four kids all the time every day, at

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00071 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13147 night and at school, and know what pander to the morbid interest of minors, are would also be prohibited. Historical represen- they are seeing and know what they not patently offensive, and have literary and tations like ‘‘Amistad’’ or ‘‘Schindler’s List’’ are reading, they have solved a wonder- artistic value. We are talking about harmful might be banned. The standard that would ful problem and should tell me how material only.’’ End of quote. ban these works is problematic and vague. they do it. Now I have great respect for the gentleman, This amendment also contains a provision This is an effort to solve the problem. and I do not question his sincerity. I only wish that would require that retail outlets that sell I hear nothing from the other side but it were that simple. A few years ago, a Mem- music recordings would have to make the ridicule. Please support the Hyde ber of this House launched an attack on one lyrics available for the parents before pur- amendment. of the most celebrated films of our time, chase. However, this amendment contains a Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I rise in op- Schindler’s List. He criticized it for its realistic loophole for internet music companies and position to the amendment. I do so, not to de- depictions of violence and nudity in a con- mail order companies. I seek to establish a fend ‘‘Rambo,’’ or ‘‘The Terminator,’’ but to de- centration camp, and castigated the network process in my district where retail stores vol- fend the Constitution. Because this amend- which broadcast it for putting it on the air untarily work with parents and legal guardians ment is both unwise and unconstitutional. where children might see it. of children to keep such reprehensible items/ There is much in the amendment that I That Member was roundly criticized for fail- materials out of the hands of children. could support, Mr. Chairman. It provides for a ing to recognize the moral and political context This loophole would simply alter the method study by the National Institutes of Health of of those scenes. But if a member of Congress in which such music is sold. If children wanted the effects of video games and music on child can be wrong about a film, how are we to sup- to obtain certain types of music, then they development and youth violence. It encour- pose that a video salesman or theater owner could go on-line or place a phone call to order ages the entertainment industry to develop will make that judgment? the recordings. voluntary guidelines to minimize the extent to For make no mistake about it—that is what This loophole illustrates how this bill is sim- which minors are exposed to sexual and vio- the amendment would require. It would de- ply not an appropriate vehicle to urge change lent materials. mand that the checkout clerk at Blockbuster or in the popular culture. It is an attempt to cen- These are sensible provisions, which were the ticket vender at the local Cineplex make a sor the freedom of expression contained in the passed by the Senate earlier this month and determination—on pain of imprisonment—as First Amendment. This amendment creates a are included in the Democratic substitute to whether a reasonable person would find standard that would drastically alter the First which Mr. CONYERS will offer later today. that the degree of violence contained in the Amendment. But the Hyde amendment goes further. film is offset by the literary, artistic, or political However, I agree with Rep. HYDE’s remarks Much further. It would make it a crime to ‘‘sell, value that a minor would derive from seeing it. that popular culture has persisted in pre- send, loan or exhibit’’ to minors any materials And I think we all know that a reasonable senting increasingly violent and sexually ex- containing ‘‘explicit sexual material or explicit person would have to be crazy to take a risk plicit entertainment. The industry must enact violent material.’’ of guessing wrong. internal standards to ensure that children are Most of us—especially those of us who are As a parent, I do not believe this is an ap- not overly exposed to inappropriate material. parents—are naturally disturbed when unsuit- propriate or workable means of regulating ac- The provision that requires a study by the able material finds its way into the hands of cess to minors. National Institutes of Health is an important young people. And many genuinely believe— If I think it is important for my daughter to measure to determine the effects of the media rightly or wrongly—that there is a connection understand what happened on Omaha Beach, on our children. I support this provision be- between access to such material and the juve- I don’t want a clerk at the video store to de- cause it allows the industry to conduct an in- nile violence in our nation. cide whether she can see Saving Private ternal review of its content and it encourages There may or may not be a connection. But Ryan. the media to take responsibility for what it pre- before we pass a law codifying this theory we If I think it is important for my daughter to sents as entertainment. ought to have some facts. The amendment di- understand what happened to Africans I also support promoting grassroots solu- rects the National Institutes of Health to study brought to this country in chains, I don’t want tions to youth violence. One of the demonstra- the issue. But it doesn’t wait to find out the re- a ticket vendor to decide whether she’s al- tion cities is Houston, Texas, but I am con- sults. lowed to see Amistad. cerned that this provision was included in this And since the subject was never considered If I think it is important for my daughter to amendment. by the Judiciary Committee, there is No Evi- understand what happened in Dachau or I appreciate Rep. HYDE’s concern for the dence on the record that criminalizing music Auschwitz, I don’t want the government of the messages that our children receive in the sales or video rentals would have any impact United States to decide whether she’s ready media. However, we cannot limit the freedom whatsoever on the level of youth violence in to see Schindler’s List. of the First Amendment. The First Amendment this country. I know that the gentleman is well-inten- is at the core of our basic freedoms and I re- But there is Plenty of evidence that the tioned, Mr. Chairman. But this amendment is spectfully oppose the Hyde Amendment. amendment would harm the precious free- a disaster, and it should be defeated. The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate doms we enjoy. Parents can and should de- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chair- on the amendment has expired. cide what their children watch and listen to. man, I rise in opposition to this amendment of- The question is on the amendment But it is not for the government to decide this fered by Mr. HYDE. I applaud his attempt to offered by the gentleman from Illinois for them. address the issue of rampant violence in our (Mr. HYDE). Others have pointed out that the gentle- popular culture, but there are serious First The question was taken; and the man’s amendment could prohibit sales to mi- Amendment concerns I have about this Chairman announced that the noes ap- nors of such edifying but disturbing films as amendment. peared to have it. Amistad, Saving Private Ryan, or Schindler’s This amendment prohibits any picture, Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I demand a List. All of these films contain violent content— sculpture, video game, movie, book, maga- recorded vote. some of it Extremely violent. This is clearly zine, photograph, drawing, similar visual rep- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House material that may be appropriate for some resentation, or sound recording with explicit Resolution 209, further proceedings on young people and inappropriate for others. sexual or violent material from being sold or the amendment offered by the gen- But the amendment would prohibit sales of given to children. tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) will be these films to All minors, unless, and I quote, According to this language, books like ‘‘Be- postponed. ‘‘the average person, applying contemporary loved’’ or ‘‘The Bluest Eye’’ by Nobel Prize It is now in order to consider amend- community standards,’’ would find that the ma- Laureate Toni Morrison would not be sold or ment No. 9 printed in Part A of House terial has ‘‘serious literary, artistic, political, or loaned from the library to a student. There are Report 106–186. scientific value for minors.’’ possibly violent and sexual situations detailed AMENDMENT NO. 9 OFFERED BY MR. SALMON The gentleman from Illinois claims that films in these works to tell the story that might be Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I offer such as these would NOT be prohibited by his prohibited under this amendment. an amendment. amendment, He says, and again I quote, Television programs like ‘‘Star Trek’’ and The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- ‘‘taken as whole, [they] are not designed to movies like the popular ‘‘Star Wars’’ trilogy ignate the amendment.

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The text of the amendment is as fol- (1), the chief executive of a State shall sub- and released from State prison is 51⁄2 lows: mit to the Attorney General an application, years; for molesting a child, 4 years; Part A amendment No. 9 offered by in such form and containing such informa- and for murder, 8 years. This is out- tion as the Attorney General may reason- rageous. It is unconscionable. We have Mr. SALMON: ably require, which shall include a certifi- Add at the end the following: cation that the State has convicted an indi- to act today to change this. SEC. ll. AIMEE’S LAW. vidual of murder, rape, or a dangerous sexual It is not as if these criminals are sud- (a) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be offense, who has a prior conviction for 1 of denly Boy Scouts after their release cited as ‘‘Aimee’s Law’’. those offenses in another State. from prison. The recidivism rates for (b) DEFINITIONS.—In this section: (3) SOURCE OF FUNDS.—Any amount trans- (1) DANGEROUS SEXUAL OFFENSE.—The term sex offenders are very high. I think ‘‘dangerous sexual offense’’ means sexual ferred under paragraph (1) shall be derived by most people agree, once a molester, al- abuse or sexually explicit conduct com- reducing the amount of Federal law enforce- ways a molester. As the Department of mitted by an individual who has attained the ment assistance funds received by the State Justice found in 1997, over the 3-year that convicted such individual of the prior age of 18 years against an individual who has period following the prison release, an not attained the age of 14 years. offense before the distribution of the funds to the State. The Attorney General, in con- estimated 52 percent of discharged rap- (2) MURDER.—The term ‘‘murder’’ has the ists and 48 percent of other sexual meaning given the term under applicable sultation with the chief executive of the State law. State that convicted such individual of the assaulters were rearrested for a new (3) RAPE.—The term ‘‘rape’’ has the mean- prior offense, shall establish a payment crime. Here is that statistic. Many of ing given the term under applicable State schedule. those go on to commit other sex of- law. (4) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this sub- fenses. (4) SEXUAL ABUSE.—The term ‘‘sexual section may be construed to diminish or oth- Light sentences for today’s most hei- abuse’’ has the meaning given the term erwise affect any court ordered restitution. nous crimes contribute to an epidemic (5) EXCEPTION.—This subsection does not under applicable State law. of completely, yes, I said it, completely (5) SEXUALLY EXPLICIT CONDUCT.—The term apply if the individual convicted of murder, ‘‘sexually explicit conduct’’ has the meaning rape, or a dangerous sexual offense has been preventable crimes. Consider, each given the term under applicable State law. released from prison upon the reversal of a year more than 14,000 rapes, molesta- (c) REIMBURSEMENT TO STATES FOR CRIMES conviction for an offense described in para- tions, and murders occur every year by COMMITTED BY CERTAIN RELEASED FELONS.— graph (1) and subsequently been convicted somebody who was let out of prison for (1) PENALTY.— for an offense described in paragraph (1). committing that exact same crime. In (A) SINGLE STATE.—In any case in which a (d) COLLECTION OF RECIDIVISM DATA.— some 1,700 of these cases, individual (1) IN GENERAL.—Beginning with calendar State convicts an individual of murder, rape, cross State lines and then reoffend or a dangerous sexual offense, who has a year 1999, and each calendar year thereafter, prior conviction for any 1 of those offenses in the Attorney General shall collect and main- again. a State described in subparagraph (C), the tain information relating to, with respect to We talk a lot about accountability in Attorney General shall transfer an amount each State— this Chamber. It is time to restore equal to the costs of incarceration, prosecu- (A) the number of convictions during that some accountability to States that re- tion, and apprehension of that individual, calendar year for murder, rape, and any sex lease these dangerous predators into from Federal law enforcement assistance offense in the State in which, at the time of our neighborhoods. Aimee’s Law would funds that have been allocated to but not the offense, the victim had not attained the add an additional factor to the formula distributed to the State that convicted the age of 14 years and the offender had attained for distributing Federal crime funds to individual of the prior offense, to the State the age of 18 years; and account that collects Federal law enforce- (B) the number of convictions described in the States. ment assistance funds of the State that con- subparagraph (A) that constitute second or Specifically, the amendment would victed that individual of the subsequent of- subsequent convictions of the defendant of provide additional funding to States fense. an offense described in that subparagraph. that convict a murderer, rapist, child (B) MULTIPLE STATES.—In any case in (2) REPORT.—Not later than March 1, 2000, molester, if that criminal had pre- which a State convicts an individual of mur- and on March 1 of each year thereafter, the viously been convicted of one of those der, rape, or a dangerous sexual offense, who Attorney General shall submit to Congress a same crimes in a different State. The has a prior conviction for any 1 or more of report, which shall include— cost of prosecuting and incarcerating those offenses in more than 1 other State de- (A) the information collected under para- scribed in subparagraph (C), the Attorney graph (1) with respect to each State during that criminal would be deducted from General shall transfer an amount equal to the preceding calendar year; and the Federal crime assistance funds in- the costs of incarceration, prosecution, and (B) the percentage of cases in each State in tended to go to the first State. apprehension of that individual, from Fed- which an individual convicted of an offense In other words, the State that is irre- eral law enforcement assistance funds that described in paragraph (1)(A) was previously sponsible, lets the rapist, murderer, have been allocated to but not distributed to convicted of another such offense in another molester out and then they cross State each State that convicted such individual of State during the preceding calendar year. lines and reoffend again, a portion the prior offense, to the State account that The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House would be taken away from their crime collects Federal law enforcement assistance Resolution 209, the gentleman from Ar- assistance funds and given to the new funds of the State that convicted that indi- vidual of the subsequent offense. izona (Mr. SALMON) and a Member op- State, enough to cover the costs of in- (C) STATE DESCRIBED.—A State is described posed each will control 15 minutes. carceration, prosecution, and appre- in this subparagraph if— The Chair recognizes the gentleman hension of that monster. (i) the State has not adopted Federal from Arizona (Mr. SALMON). A safe harbor would not require the truth-in-sentencing guidelines under section Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield funds transfer if the criminal has 20104 of the Violent Crime Control and Law myself such time as I may consume. served 85 percent of his original sen- Enforcement Act of 1994 (42 U.S.C. 13704); Mr. Chairman, this is a pretty awe- tence and if the first State was a truth- (ii) the average term of imprisonment im- some time to be here. I am offering in-sentencing State, with a higher than posed by the State on individuals convicted today, along with the gentleman from of the offense for which the individual de- average typical sentence for the crime. scribed in subparagraph (A) or (B), as appli- Pennsylvania (Mr. WELDON) and the Aimee’s Law, a bipartisan effort from cable, was convicted by the State is less than gentleman from Washington (Mr. day one, passed the Senate last week 10 percent above the average term of impris- SMITH), an amendment that is known with a whopping 81 to 17 vote. Aimee’s onment imposed for that offense in all as Aimee’s Law. I would like to take a Law is enthusiastically supported by States; or few moments to discuss why this is im- law enforcement and victims rights (iii) with respect to the individual de- portant to Americans, and how come a groups nationwide. Here is just a smat- scribed in subparagraph (A) or (B), as appli- nationwide grass roots effort has tering of those who are supportive. cable, the individual had served less than 85 worked towards its passage. The law enforcement community in percent of the term of imprisonment to which that individual was sentenced for the First of all, I would like to reference particular, they understand the need prior offense. this chart. According to the Depart- for this legislation. They are in the (2) STATE APPLICATIONS.—In order to re- ment of Justice, the average time actu- trenches. They are fighting this fight ceive an amount transferred under paragraph ally served by a rapist in this country every day. The Nation’s largest police

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00073 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13149 union, the national Fraternal Order of Sadly, the list goes on and on and on. Jeremy Brown, that the gentleman Police, representing some 250,000 brave Too many victims, too much suffering. recited, comes from my own congres- police officers nationwide, has strongly We have to do more, and we can do it sional district in New York and was backed this amendment and has ap- today with passage of this amendment. the only survivor of a man who raped peared at all public events to help push Mr. Chairman, before I close, I want- and murdered a number of other for its passage. Their president has ed to express my heartfelt thanks to women. Having been through this hor- said, ‘‘The bill addresses this issue the survivors, the groups, and everyone rible ordeal and having persevered, she smartly, without infringing on the else who has joined with me to fight has demonstrated tremendous courage States and without federalizing this fight and to protect families. and has become symbolic of the reason crimes.’’ The gentleman from Florida (Chair- that we should pass this legislation Among the other law enforcement man MCCOLLUM) deserves the lion’s today. groups that have endorsed the bill is share of the credit for his fine leader- To all the courageous people who the California Correctional Police Offi- ship on this issue. I wanted to thank hope that together we will be able to cers Association, and some of the oth- my staff for all their hard work. prevent future violence, our hearts, our ers Members can see. I would like to close with a couple of prayers and support are with them, Victims rights and child advocacy quotes. First of all, they are not from now and always. That is why I urge groups have also endorsed the bill, and a famous leader, world leader, or a law support for this measure. made this one of the most important enforcement official, but from the very Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I re- issues that they focus on: Child Help heart of the problem. I want to quote a serve the balance of my time. U.S.A., Klaas Kids Foundation, Kids pair of child molesters whose des- Safe, Mothers Outraged at Molester, picable, unspeakable crimes cry out for b 1730 and the list goes on and on and on. justice. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman From around the country, Americans Mr. Chairman, there are more than from Virginia seek time in opposition? have signed petitions, called our of- 134,000 convicted sex offenders cur- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, yes. fices, and sent e-mails demanding pas- rently living in our neighborhoods, on The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman sage of Aimee’s Law. Even Dr. Laura is probation or on parole right now in our from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) is recognized urging her 18 million listeners across neighborhoods. Let us hear from two of for 15 minutes. America, and has been doing it all them scheduled for release. They have Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield week, also including it on her web site, never met, but their message could not myself such time as I may consume. for a call to action on this particular be more clear: Mr. Chairman, this amendment em- piece of legislation. ‘‘I am terrified of being released, be- phasizes the need for us to have held Mr. Chairman, this is Aimee Willard. cause I fear without counseling, I will hearings on some of these so that we I never met her. This legislation is molest more children. Since I don’t could determine actually what is going named for her. But I have become very want to return to prison, I would be on. This seems well intended; it might close with her through the passage of forced to kill them.’’ work, might not but we just do not this legislation, and close with her The next quote: ‘‘I am doomed to know. family. Aimee was senselessly raped eventually rape, then murder my poor It is interesting that there is an ex- and murdered by a man who was let little victims to keep them from tell- emption in this bill for those States out of prison for serving 12 years for ing on me. I might be walking the that have abolished parole and require murder for killing somebody over a streets of your city, your community, prisoners to spend 85 percent of their parking spot. If this man had served 85 your neighborhoods.’’ time in prison; it is truth in sen- Mr. Chairman, let us pass the amend- percent of his sentence, Aimee Willard tencing. I like to call it not truth in ment today and strike a blow against would still be alive today. sentencing but a half truth in sen- Aimee was an all-American college the revolving door of prisons, murders, tencing, because as that poster points athlete who wanted to work with chil- and sexual predators. out if parole is abolished, people can no dren. We are never going to know all Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Chairman, will the that we lost when she was taken from gentleman yield? longer be held. us, but we should do what we can to Mr. SALMON. I yield to the gen- The half truth is a person cannot get prevent others from enduring the same tleman from New York. out early but they cannot hold them kind of pain and agony, and following Mr. GILMAN. I thank the gentleman longer either. If a person has a short her to a needlessly early grave. for yielding. sentence for which they have to serve Many courageous victims and sur- Mr. Chairman, I want to commend 85 percent, they would be eligible for vivors have made extraordinary efforts the gentleman for bringing this meas- the exemption under this, but if they to help me pass this bill. I cannot men- ure to the floor at this time. Today we have a much longer sentence with pa- tion them all, but I wanted to list a have an opportunity to take a giant role, then they would have been able to few. Many of them came to Washington step in the fight against repeat offend- retain them. twice to support the bill and testify be- ers. I commend the gentleman from Ar- Let us give an example of how that fore the Subcommittee on Crime. izona (Mr. SALMON) for bringing this thing works. I am not sure whether I There is Gail Willard, who lost her legislation to our attention. heard the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. daughter, Aimee; Mark Klaas, who lost It has become too common in recent SALMON) right, but I thought he men- his daughter, Polly; Mary Vincent, a years that victims are violated by tioned Mr. Klaas in California. The per- rape survivor; Fred Goldman, who lost someone who has been previously con- petrator in that case was Richard Allen his son, Ron; Mika Moulton, who lost victed of a crime and then released. Davis, who was in prison on a 6-month her son Christopher; Trina Easterling, Many who commit murder, rape, and to life sentence. He was denied parole, who lost her daughter Lorin; Jeremy child exploitation cannot be rehabili- denied parole, denied parole. They fi- Brown, a rape survivor; Louis Gon- tated, as the gentleman from Arizona nally cracked down on crime and abol- zalez, who lost his brother Ipollito; the (Mr. SALMON) pointed out. We owe it to ished parole. He was resentenced to 7.2 Greishabers, who lost their daughter our communities to put a stop to this years which he had already served and Jenna; the Pruckmayrs, who lost their pattern of violence. he got on out because they had to let daughter Bettina; the Schmidts, who Aimee’s Law will do just that. It will him out, and he committed another lost their daughter Stephanie; and the impede the ability of convicted felons crime. list goes on and on, because again, that to repeat their offenses at the cost of He received 8 years; served 8 years. number is 14,000 rapes, murders, moles- innocent human lives. Too often we They could not hold him longer be- tations, that occur each year by some- have heard personal stories of these cause they had abolished parole. Then body let out of prison for doing exactly terrible crimes that legislation would he got out and kidnapped and murdered the same crime. help to eliminate. Polly Klaas. If that had been parole, he

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00074 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13150 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 never would have been out on the first year and this is not a surprise. We have been convicted of murdering twice was offense, certainly never would have been working on this for a year and a driving Miss Cabuenos’ car when he been out on the second offense, but be- half. We did have a hearing before the was found while trying to burglarize cause parole was abolished they had to Subcommittee on Crime, and frankly another house. let him out. the Supreme Court has determined How many times are we going to let Even the people, with quotes that the that for violent sex offenders the someone out early? And why should gentleman said, they had to let them courts can hold somebody beyond their not we create a disincentive to have out because they could not hold them sentence. They can put them in secu- States thoroughly review the process longer. rity, but beyond that I am not pre- for people who have been convicted of Maybe if we had had a hearing, scribing how States deal with the pa- rape, of murder and child molestation maybe we could flesh some of this out role issue. All I am saying is that a from getting out prematurely? so we could determine whether abol- State ought to certify. Rather than This does not provide a one-size-fits- ishing parole and letting somebody out play Russian roulette with somebody all answer. It simply says to States is better than having a much longer else’s head, all I am saying is the State that we are going to hold a person ac- sentence when there is some discretion. ought to be accountable. countable. If someone allows people Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, will the If a State is going to let somebody who commit these brutal crimes to get gentleman yield? go, make sure that they are not going out prematurely, then they are going Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentleman to reoffend again, and if they want to to pay the price of the other State from Arizona. deal with that with a combination of where that person is convicted of their Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, there is counseling or parole or whatever the costs in having to convict that person nothing in this bill that suggests that case may be, all I am trying to do is re- a second time. we do away with parole by any stretch store a modicum of accountability In the name of Aimee Willard and all of the imagination. I think that the back to the States. If they want to ad- of those other thousands of people, I goals of the gentleman and my goals dress that for parole, that is their op- ask our colleagues to support Aimee’s are the same. We want to do what is tion. Law. right by families. Mr. SCOTT. If the gentleman could Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 The fact is that 14,000 rapists, child have convinced a majority of the mem- minutes to the gentleman from Wash- molesters and murderers go on to re- bers of the committee after we had had ington (Mr. SMITH). offend every year and States are not a hearing and a markup through the Mr. SMITH of Washington. Mr. doing a good job. regular process, maybe it would have Chairman, I thank the gentleman from I go back to the statistics, that the worked, but we are not doing that. We Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) for yielding me average time served for molestation, 4 are coming out here and exchanging this time, even though we disagree on years; 5 years for rape; 8 years for will- sound bites. this amendment. ful murder. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance Mr. Chairman, I am a cosponsor of Mr. SCOTT. Reclaiming my time, of my time. the amendment and strongly support that has nothing to do with parole. As Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield it. I think the issue of parole is not a matter of fact, if a person had 4 years 2 minutes to the gentleman from Penn- what we are dealing with here. How- and they had to serve it all, maybe I sylvania (Mr. WELDON). ever an individual State wants to han- misread it. Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. Mr. dle it, wants to pass out the sen- CQ has the summary of the amend- Chairman, I thank my colleague, the tencing, is fine with us. The question is ment of the gentleman which says the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. SALMON), are they going to pass out strong sen- amendment would not require funds for yielding me this time, and I ap- tences? If they do it under a parole sys- transferred if the criminal had served plaud him for this law. tem and hold them for longer, the 85 percent of his original sentence and Mr. Chairman, we are here to support point of this bill is to try to give incen- if the first date had, quote, truth in Aimee’s Law. As we know, laws are tives to States to hold the most dan- sentencing with a higher than average about people. gerous of criminals, murderers, rapists typical sentence for a crime, which This is Aimee. Aimee lived 2 miles and child molesters for as long a period means the average sentence, all one from my home in Pennsylvania. Aimee as possible so that they do not re- has to do is serve the average. Someone was a bright 22-year-old, promising offend. cannot be held longer than average. young lady, great in athletics, great in We are trying to drive dollars out to Virginia went through this. We took school, who had an unbelievable career encourage that decision and to move a 10-year sentence, which was a year ahead of her. Her life was snuffed out them in that direction for a very good and a half to 10 years, average 21⁄2, dou- because a man who had been repeatedly reason. We want to protect the citizens bled the average time served so that involved in hurting other people struck of our country. the average time was 21⁄2. We doubled her car on a freeway to make her pull There are many reasons for punish- the average time so now everybody has over. When she pulled off the side of ment in crimes, but one of the biggest to serve 5 years. the road on June 20, 1996, and got out is to protect society with a very simple Now, if we think about it for 15 sec- to see what was wrong, as any normal notion. If an individual who is given to onds, the person that could not make person would do, he accosted her. She committing crimes is behind bars, they parole at all would have served all 10 was abducted. She was raped. She was are not victimizing other people. That years. Now that there has been a brutally murdered. is one of the clearest ways to protect crackdown on crime, they have to be She was found in a dumpster with our citizens, is to lock them up when released after 5 years, even if they are two trash bags over her head and a they have made it clear that they are telling stuff that was on those posters. stick between her legs. The man who dangerous to the citizens. Maybe if we had had some time in was convicted of brutally murdering Right now, too often crimes as seri- committee we could have discussed Aimee Willard served 11 years of a life ous as rape and child molestation have this, but the gentleman comes spring- sentence that had been given to him very short sentences and those people ing this out on us without hearings, for killing someone else, but that State are free to reoffend all over again. We and we are just doing the sound bite. paroled him early. They let him out need to do a better job of protecting Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, will the without serving his full sentence. our citizens, and I commend the gen- gentleman yield? Not only did he kill Aimee Willard, tleman from Arizona (Mr. SALMON) for Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentleman he is now the suspect in a second mur- putting forward this modest piece of from Arizona. der, Maria Cabuenos, who disappeared legislation to try to do that, to try to Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, we did in March 1997 and was also found mur- give States the encouragement they have a very, very thorough hearing last dered. The same individual who has need, the financial encouragement, to

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00075 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13151 hold these dangerous offenders for a cent or higher of their sentence if they dren. I believe that individuals who longer period of time. have committed murder, rape or child commit these violent or sexual crimes There are many reasons why the molestation, and that should be the against children should spend the rest crime rate has fallen in recent years, law of the land for every State in the of their lives in prison. but one that should not go unnoticed is Union. b 1745 that we have increased punishment for This is an extraordinary bill. It was crimes of all types, but certainly of the widely supported in the hearing that Lord knows, in Texas, we have had most serious nature. That keeps dan- we had before the subcommittee in the the biggest building boom in prison in gerous offenders off the streets so they last Congress, and I strongly urge the many years, so we are trying to build a cannot reoffend so that we can protect adoption of the amendment. place for them. future victims. Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield If, however, a State believes that I again commend the gentleman from 1 minute to the honorable gentleman such a criminal has been rehabilitated Arizona (Mr. SALMON) for bringing this from Texas (Mr. DELAY), the distin- and decides to release this person back piece of legislation forward and hope guished whip of the House of Rep- to society before the end of their term, that the effect of it will be to save lives resentatives. then that State should be held respon- and to keep dangerous offenders behind Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I want to sible if that person commits the crime bars where they cannot victimize the congratulate the gentleman from Ari- again in someone else’s neighborhood, people that we represent. zona (Mr. SALMON), for bringing this if it is in another State. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield amendment. He has worked so hard on Under the Salmon-Smith amend- myself such time as I may consume. this, and it is very creative in trying to ment, these States who have an early Mr. Chairman, I have, as I have indi- bring safety to our children. There is release of violent criminals would pay cated, a great deal of problem with the no better cause than the safety of our to incarcerate these criminals in the amendment. We should have gone children. other State. This is the only fair and through subcommittee. I rise in support of the amendment just approach. I urge my colleagues to Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to because it does protect America’s chil- support it simply because the repeat the gentleman from Florida (Mr. dren from predators. This amendment, offenders are what we are trying to get MCCOLLUM), the chairman, to explain better known as Aimee’s Law, fights to. how this got here and let him say a lit- that plague of repeat offenders. Specifi- We have seen some good numbers on tle bit about the amendment. cally, this law tracks criminals that our crime statistics, and the reason is Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I have crossed state lines, guilty of mur- because a lot of States are keeping peo- thank the gentleman from Virginia dering, rapists and otherwise assault- ple in prison longer because they are (Mr. SCOTT) for yielding me this time. ing children under the age of 14. Why the repeat offenders, and this will Mr. Chairman, I want to first of all are these monsters set free? Aimee’s make it even, hopefully, make those say that we did have a hearing on this Law holds States responsible for felons statistics even sound better. bill last Congress in the Subcommittee they release who commit further vio- Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, may I on Crime, not in this Congress. The lent crimes in other States. inquire of the Chairman how much gentleman from Arizona (Mr. SALMON), So, Mr. Chairman, our kids need to time remains? I think, has produced a remarkably be protected from these violent crimi- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman good product. It would have been high- nals. States need to be encouraged to from Arizona (Mr. SALMON) has 21⁄2 ly desirable had we brought this or keep child molesters behind bars, and I minutes remaining. The gentleman been able to bring this through the urge my colleagues to support this from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) has 4 min- subcommittee this time because I have amendment. utes remaining. no doubt that we would have reported Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield it out virtually intact as it is here minutes to the gentleman from Texas 30 seconds to the gentleman from Utah today. (Mr. GREEN). (Mr. CANNON). I think this is a terrific product, and Mr. GREEN of Texas. Mr. Chairman, Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, as the the reason I am going to support it and I thank my good friend, the gentleman father of several children and husband I am supporting it today is because of from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) for yielding of 20 years, I rise today in support of that reason, even though it would have me the time. the amendment of the gentleman from been more desirable had we been able Mr. Chairman, like the gentleman Arizona (Mr. SALMON) better known as to mark it up in committee. It happens from Washington (Mr. SMITH), I am on Aimee’s law. I commend him for his to be this is a good vehicle and he has the other side on this amendment. hard work in bringing this common- convinced the Committee on Rules to I was honored to serve 20 years in the sense legislation to the forefront of to- let it come to the floor, and I think it legislature in Texas and so I have some day’s debate. is an appropriate thing to vote for. I hesitation in requiring States to do As on editorial page put it, ‘‘Giving a am going to support it because if a something that we typically do not pay one-way ticket to a sex offender might State adopted a truth in sentencing, for but there are exceptions to this, improve the community he leaves, but which half the States in the United and frankly we cannot accomplish this it is the equivalent of shipping toxic States have, well, more than half, al- without a change in Federal law. waste to unsuspecting States.’’ most 30 now have, where a person has If a person is released from one State The practice of returning criminals to serve at least 85 percent of their sen- and commits a crime in another State, to freedom for which they can prey on tence for any major crime, that State then without a Federal law we have to the innocent is outrageous and must would not be, and those States that al- have Federal action to be able to re- stop. This body has an opportunity to ready have will not be, affected by this quire that. act with clarity, to demonstrate to law proposal because they will not lose any I am proud to be a cosponsor of the breakers that are serious about keep- money or risk it if somebody gets out Aimee’s Law legislation by the gen- ing these violent offenders off the early, because they will not. tleman from Arizona (Mr. SALMON), the streets, and from repeating these acts. Other States that the gentleman gentleman from Washington (Mr. I urge passage of this amendment. from Arizona (Mr. SALMON) has been SMITH) and the gentleman from Penn- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 very creative with, they do not have to sylvania (Mr. WELDON), because of the minutes to the gentlewoman from adopt truth in sentencing. There are problem with repeat offenders, dealing Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). other ways to deal with it under his with murder, rape or child molestation. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. proposal, but I do think the incentive The only crimes that are more hei- Chairman, I thank the gentleman from is there to keep people in jail for long nous than murder and rape are those Virginia (Mr. SCOTT), the ranking periods of time to serve at least 85 per- same crimes committed against chil- member, very much for his kindness,

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00076 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13152 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 and I respect his position on this legis- legislation, I think of a mother who Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield lation and acknowledge the fact that came to me, Mika Moulton, a mother myself such time as I may consume. the better route would have been to of a child who was murdered in 1995, a Mr. Chairman, I think this really is a have this particular legislative initia- child who would be alive today if this no-brainer, a common-sense amend- tive, as all of the amendments that we legislation was law. ment. This amendment has been a long are dealing with in these 2 days on In particular, the murderer of Chris- time in the process. There are a lot of guns and juveniles, to come through topher Moulton is a murderer that had far greater people out there than I that the committee procedure. already received a short sentence when have fought for this; and for them, But I want to rise in support of this he was released. This legislation would please let us do it. amendment because I believe that have kept him in prison for a long Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- some crimes are heinous enough that time. Let us pass it. No second chance. ance of my time. deserve incarceration. It is tragic that PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield we face, on a daily basis, the attack of Mr. SCOTT. Parliamentary inquiry, myself 2 minutes. our children, child molesters and mur- Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this may be a no- derers and rapists who go about our The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will brainer, but it would have been nice if Nation and repeat their crimes. state his parliamentary inquiry. we had brought it up under the normal Right now in the State of Texas, we Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, does this procedure so we would have time to are fighting a serial killer whose trail side have the right to close since we evaluate it. of killings have gone throughout the are defending the committee position? Under this amendment, a State city of Houston into States in the Mid- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman would have to pay if they hold some- west; and, still, he is not found, killing from Virginia is correct. The gen- body for 10 years of a 20-year sentence innocent victims, ministers of gospel, tleman from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) has and then let them go because they only elderly and young women. the right to close. served half the time. But they would The most terrible tragedy that a par- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I reserve have an exemption if they held them ent has to confront is a murdered child. the balance of my time. for 4 years of a 4-year sentence. If the I think it is important when we begin Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield person served all of the time of a 4-year to talk about how we solve this prob- 45 seconds to the gentleman from Ohio sentence, held them for 4 years, same lem, it is simply that we not allow (Mr. CHABOT). offense, they would not have to pay. If Mr. CHABOT. Mr. Chairman, as a them to do it again. the State had held them for 10 years of member of the Committee on the Judi- In the State of Texas, we attempted a 20-year sentence, they would have to ciary, I would like to thank the gen- to place on the books a bill that would pay. tleman from Arizona (Mr. SALMON) for allow incarceration without parole for I think it would have been nice if we his leadership in this area. had the opportunity in committee to heinous crimes for those who may op- It is my hope that passage of this bill develop this issue, to see if it made any pose the death penalty. We were not will make States take a hard look at sense or not. We were denied that op- successful. But I think it is extremely what too often are lax parole systems portunity, and, therefore, I will oppose important that we realize that we can that will let dangerous felons back out the amendment. put murderers and rapists and child in society without proper safeguards. molesters away, where they do not Aimee’s law includes a clear state- Mr. RILEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to have an opportunity to prey on inno- ment that it is the sense of this Con- support the amendment offered by the gen- cent victims again. gress that any person who is convicted tleman from Arizona. I am saddened by the loss of Aimee of a murder should receive the death In 1996, 22 year old Aimee Willard was and many other Aimee’s and Peters penalty or life in prison without the raped and brutally murdered by a man who and Pauls across this Nation. As a possibility of parole. It also emphasizes had been previously convicted of murder and mother, I stand up and say those kinds that rapists and child molesters, crimi- later released after serving only 12 years of a of individuals must be incarcerated. If nals who are classic recidivists, be put life sentence in a Nevada prison. they go into another State and are con- away for life without the possibility of What a tragedy, Mr. Chairman. Aimee was victed, let us lock them up. I think it parole. a bright, energetic young woman who had a is a terrible tragedy that each day we Right now, the average time served promising future. But, her life was snuffed out by a so-called ‘‘model prisoner.’’ come about having to see another trag- in State prison for rape is only 51⁄2 ic incident. years and for child molestation only 4 Who is to blame? Certainly, Aimee’s killer. I know that there are other responses years. These criminals are then free to But to some extent, the State of Nevada to the idea of repeat offenders, but I do it again, and many of them do. should shoulder some of the blame. Why? be- think the best way to deal with it is to These statistics are outrageous, and cause it let out of prison a man who already ensure that they never see the light of States need to get back to it and do the proved that he was a threat to society and day to perpetrate these offenses of right thing. who was supposed to spend the rest of his life murder, rape, and child molestation The family of Clara Swart, who was behind bars. again. killed in my district in Cincinnati, also One might think that this is an isolated case. I ask that my colleagues support this endorses this legislation. But, unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, it’s not. amendment. Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield More than 14,000 murders, rapes, and sexual Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 seconds to the gentlewoman from assaults are committed each year by pre- 30 seconds to the gentleman from Illi- North Carolina (Mrs. MYRICK). viously convicted murderers and sex offend- nois (Mr. WELLER). Mrs. MYRICK. Mr. Chairman, today ers. That’s outrageous. Mr. WELLER. Mr. Chairman, I want the average murderer in the United Why are states letting these people out of to thank the gentleman from Arizona States serves only 6 years in prison. jail? Maybe they just need some more incen- (Mr. SALMON) for his leadership and his One out of ten convicted rapists serves tive to keep people behind bars. partnership in working with him on no no jail time. Time and time again we Well, Mr. Chairman, we give them that in- second chances legislation, legislation hear about repeat offenders out on the centive with this amendment. In short, under that is very simple. No second chances street repeating their crime. Aimee’s Law, states that keep criminals in jail for those who prey on kids, murderers, It is time to draw a line in the sand. receive more federal crime funds. States that rapists, and those who commit sexual If one commits murder, rape, or mo- let criminals out of jail, who later commit a assaults. lests a child, one should spend the rest similar crime in another state, lose a portion of Fourteen thousand murders, rapes, of one’s life in prison. those funds. It’s simple as that! I can’t think of and assaults on children have occurred Let us pass this amendment because a better way of convincing states to keep each year, and it is time to get them some criminals do not deserve a second these types of criminals in jail where they be- off the streets. When I think of this chance. long.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00077 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 9920 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13153 I commend the gentleman from Arizona for Hunter Minge Serrano ico, and MORAN of Kansas changed Hutchinson Mink Sessions his amendment and urge all my colleagues to Hyde Moakley Shadegg their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ support it. Inslee Mollohan Shaw Ms. LEE changed her vote from Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield Isakson Moore Shays ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ back the balance of my time. Istook Moran (KS) Sherman So the amendment was agreed to. Jackson-Lee Moran (VA) Sherwood The CHAIRMAN. The question is on (TX) Morella Shimkus The result of the vote was announced the amendment offered by the gen- Jefferson Murtha Shows as above recorded. tleman from Arizona (Mr. SALMON). Jenkins Myrick Shuster Stated for: John Nadler Simpson The question was taken; and the Johnson (CT) Napolitano Sisisky Mr. EHLERS. Mr. Chairman, on rollcall No. Chairman announced that the ayes ap- Johnson, E.B. Neal Skeen 212, I was unavoidably detained. Had I been peared to have it. Johnson, Sam Nethercutt Skelton present, I would have voted ‘‘yes.’’ Jones (NC) Ney Slaughter RECORDED VOTE Kanjorski Northup Smith (MI) AMENDMENT NO. 31 OFFERED BY MR. HYDE Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I de- Kaptur Norwood Smith (NJ) The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- mand a recorded vote. Kelly Nussle Smith (TX) ness is the demand for a recorded vote Kennedy Oberstar Smith (WA) A recorded vote was ordered. Kildee Obey Snyder on the amendment offered by the gen- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Kind (WI) Olver Souder tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) on Resolution 209, the Chair announces King (NY) Ortiz Spence which further proceedings were post- that he will reduce to a minimum of 5 Kingston Ose Spratt poned and on which the noes prevailed Kleczka Owens Stabenow minutes the period of time within Klink Oxley Stark by voice vote. which a vote by electronic device will Knollenberg Packard Stearns The Clerk will redesignate the be taken on the Hyde amendment No. Kolbe Pallone Stenholm amendment. Kucinich Pascrell Strickland 31 on which the Chair has postponed Kuykendall Pastor Stump The Clerk redesignated the amend- further proceedings. LaFalce Paul Stupak ment. The vote was taken by electronic de- LaHood Pease Sununu RECORDED VOTE vice, and there were—ayes 412, noes 15, Lampson Pelosi Sweeney Lantos Peterson (MN) Talent The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has not voting 7, as follows: Largent Peterson (PA) Tancredo been demanded. [Roll No. 212] Larson Petri Tanner A recorded vote was ordered. Latham Phelps Tauscher AYES—412 LaTourette Pickering Tauzin The vote was taken by electronic de- Abercrombie Capuano Farr Lazio Pickett Taylor (MS) vice, and there were—ayes 146, noes 282, Ackerman Cardin Fattah Leach Pitts Taylor (NC) not voting 6, as follows: Aderholt Carson Filner Levin Pombo Terry Allen Castle Fletcher Lewis (CA) Pomeroy Thompson (CA) [Roll No. 213] Andrews Chabot Foley Lewis (GA) Porter Thompson (MS) AYES—146 Archer Chambliss Forbes Lewis (KY) Portman Thornberry Aderholt Gutknecht Portman Armey Chenoweth Ford Linder Price (NC) Thune Archer Hall (OH) Radanovich Bachus Clayton Fossella Lipinski Pryce (OH) Thurman Armey Hall (TX) Ramstad Baird Clement Fowler LoBiondo Quinn Tiahrt Bachus Hansen Regula Baker Clyburn Franks (NJ) Lofgren Radanovich Tierney Baker Hayes Reynolds Baldacci Coble Frelinghuysen Lowey Rahall Toomey Bartlett Hefley Baldwin Riley Coburn Frost Lucas (KY) Ramstad Towns Barton Herger Ballenger Rogers Collins Gallegly Lucas (OK) Rangel Traficant Bereuter Hill (MT) Barcia Roukema Combest Ganske Luther Regula Turner Bilbray Hilleary Barr Ryun (KS) Condit Gejdenson Maloney (CT) Reyes Udall (CO) Bilirakis Hobson Barrett (NE) Saxton Cook Gekas Maloney (NY) Reynolds Udall (NM) Bliley Holden Barrett (WI) Sessions Cooksey Gephardt Manzullo Riley Upton Blunt Horn Bartlett ´ Shadegg Costello Gibbons Markey Rivers Velazquez Boehlert Hostettler Barton Shays Cox Gilchrest Mascara Rodriguez Vento Brady (TX) Hunter Bass Sherwood Coyne Gillmor Matsui Roemer Visclosky Bryant Hyde Bateman Shimkus Cramer Gilman McCarthy (MO) Rogan Vitter Buyer Isakson Becerra Shows Crane Gonzalez McCarthy (NY) Rogers Walden Callahan Istook Bentsen Shuster Crowley Goode McCollum Rohrabacher Walsh Calvert Jenkins Bereuter Simpson Cubin Goodlatte McCrery Ros-Lehtinen Wamp Canady Johnson (CT) Berkley Skelton Cummings Goodling McDermott Rothman Watkins Chabot Johnson, Sam Berman Smith (MI) Cunningham Gordon McGovern Roukema Watts (OK) Chambliss Jones (NC) Berry Danner Goss McHugh Royce Waxman Chenoweth Kelly Smith (NJ) Biggert Davis (FL) Graham McInnis Rush Weldon (FL) Clement King (NY) Smith (TX) Bilbray Davis (VA) Granger McIntosh Ryan (WI) Weldon (PA) Coburn Kingston Souder Bilirakis Deal Green (TX) McIntyre Ryun (KS) Weller Collins LaHood Spence Bishop DeFazio Green (WI) McKeon Sabo Wexler Combest Largent Stearns Blagojevich DeGette Greenwood McKinney Salmon Weygand Cook Lazio Stenholm Bliley Delahunt Gutierrez McNulty Sanchez Whitfield Cubin Lewis (KY) Stump Blumenauer DeLauro Gutknecht Meehan Sanders Wicker Cunningham Lipinski Sweeney Blunt DeLay Hall (OH) Menendez Sandlin Wilson Danner LoBiondo Talent Boehlert DeMint Hall (TX) Metcalf Sanford Wise Deal Lucas (KY) Tancredo Boehner Deutsch Hansen Mica Sawyer Wolf DeLay Lucas (OK) Taylor (MS) Bonilla Diaz-Balart Hastings (FL) Millender- Saxton Woolsey DeMint Maloney (CT) Taylor (NC) Bonior Dickey Hastings (WA) McDonald Scarborough Wu Duncan McCrery Tiahrt Bono Dicks Hayes Miller (FL) Schaffer Wynn Ehlers McHugh Traficant Borski Dingell Hayworth Miller, Gary Schakowsky Young (AK) Emerson McIntosh Turner Boswell Dixon Hefley Miller, George Sensenbrenner Young (FL) English McIntyre Upton Boucher Doggett Herger Everett McKeon Vitter Boyd NOES—15 Dooley Hill (IN) Ewing Metcalf Walden Brady (PA) Doolittle Hill (MT) Clay Kilpatrick Payne Franks (NJ) Mica Watkins Brady (TX) Doyle Hilleary Conyers Lee Roybal-Allard Frelinghuysen Miller, Gary Watts (OK) Brown (FL) Dreier Hilliard Frank (MA) Martinez Scott Gallegly Mollohan Weldon (FL) Brown (OH) Duncan Hinchey Jackson (IL) Meek (FL) Waters Gilchrest Norwood Weldon (PA) Bryant Dunn Hinojosa Jones (OH) Meeks (NY) Watt (NC) Gillmor Oxley Whitfield Burr Edwards Hobson Goode Packard Wicker Burton NOT VOTING—7 Ehrlich Hoeffel Goodlatte Peterson (MN) Wilson Buyer Emerson Hoekstra Brown (CA) Houghton Weiner Goodling Peterson (PA) Wise Callahan Engel Holden Davis (IL) Kasich Granger Pickering Wolf Calvert English Holt Ehlers Thomas Greenwood Pitts Young (FL) Camp Eshoo Hooley Campbell Etheridge Horn b 1816 NOES—282 Canady Evans Hostettler Abercrombie Allen Baird Cannon Everett Hoyer Messrs. PETERSON of Pennsylvania, Ackerman Andrews Baldacci Capps Ewing Hulshof BLAGOJEVICH, UDALL of New Mex-

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00078 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13154 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Baldwin Gonzalez Nussle NOT VOTING—6 require in investigating the death of an indi- Ballenger Gordon Oberstar Brown (CA) Houghton Thomas vidual who has not attained 13 years of age Barcia Goss Obey Davis (IL) Kasich Weiner under circumstances indicating that the Barr Graham Olver death may have been a homicide. Barrett (NE) Green (TX) Ortiz b 1824 Barrett (WI) Green (WI) Ose The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Bass Gutierrez Owens Mr. LUCAS of Kentucky and Mr. Resolution 209, the gentleman from Bateman Hastings (FL) Pallone METCALF changed their vote from California (Mr. CUNNINGHAM) and a Becerra Hastings (WA) Pascrell ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Member opposed each will control 5 Bentsen Hayworth Pastor So the amendment was rejected. Berkley Hill (IN) Paul minutes. Berman Hilliard Payne The result of the vote was announced The Chair recognizes the gentleman Berry Hinchey Pease as above recorded. from California (Mr. CUNNINGHAM). Biggert Hinojosa Pelosi The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, Bishop Hoeffel Petri consider Amendment No. 10 printed in Aimee Willard, Megan’s Law, Polly Blagojevich Hoekstra Phelps Part A of House Report 106–186. Blumenauer Holt Pickett Klaas, now Matthew’s Law. Mr. Chair- Boehner Hooley Pombo AMENDMENT NO. 10 OFFERED BY MR. man, the children I just named, every Bonilla Hoyer Pomeroy CUNNINGHAM Member in this House is tired of having Bonior Hulshof Porter Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, I to name bills after murdered children. Bono Hutchinson Price (NC) offer an amendment. I know, Mr. Chairman, this is a very Borski Inslee Pryce (OH) Boswell Jackson (IL) Quinn The Clerk will designate the amend- bipartisan amendment. The same Boucher Jackson-Lee Rahall ment. amendment passed by Mr. Chrysler in Boyd (TX) Rangel The text of the amendment is as fol- the House on H.R. 2974 passed 414 votes Brady (PA) Jefferson Reyes lows: to 4. And with that, this is something Brown (FL) John Rivers Brown (OH) Johnson, E.B. Rodriguez Part A amendment No. 10 offered by Mr. that my colleagues can stand for. Burr Jones (OH) Roemer CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- Burton Kanjorski Rogan At the end of the bill, insert the following: tleman from California (Mr. PACKARD), Camp Kaptur Rohrabacher TITLE ll—MATTHEW’S LAW a great leader. Campbell Kennedy Ros-Lehtinen Mr. PACKARD. Mr. Chairman, I ap- Cannon Kildee Rothman SEC. ll. SHORT TITLE. Capps Kilpatrick Roybal-Allard This title may be cited as ‘‘Matthew’s preciate the gentleman yielding. Capuano Kind (WI) Royce Law’’. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong Cardin Kleczka Rush SEC. ll2. ENHANCED PENALTIES FOR CRIMES support of the Cunningham amend- Carson Klink Ryan (WI) OF VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN ment. This amendment will increase Castle Knollenberg Sabo UNDER AGE 13. Clay Kolbe Federal penalties for criminals who Salmon (a) IN GENERAL.—Title XVII of the Violent Clayton Kucinich commit Federal crimes of violence Sanchez Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of Clyburn Kuykendall against children. Sanders 1994 is amended by adding at the end the fol- Coble LaFalce Sandlin lowing: Last November, 9-year-old Matthew Condit Lampson Sanford Conyers Lantos Cecchi was brutally murdered in my Sawyer ‘‘Subtitle C—Enhanced Penalties for Crimes hometown of Oceanside, California. Cooksey Larson Scarborough of Violence Against Children Under Age 13 Costello Latham Matthew was not a troubled runaway, Schaffer ‘‘SEC. 170301. ENHANCED PENALTIES FOR CRIMES Cox LaTourette Schakowsky not a child that was allowed to wander Coyne Leach OF VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN Scott UNDER AGE 13. far from his parents. He simply walked Cramer Lee Sensenbrenner Crane ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—The United States Sen- into a public restroom and moments Levin Serrano Crowley Lewis (CA) Shaw tencing Commission shall amend the Federal later he was dead, the victim of the Cummings Lewis (GA) Sherman sentencing guidelines to provide a sen- killer who carefully stalked and hunted Davis (FL) Linder Sisisky tencing enhancement of not less than 5 lev- Davis (VA) Lofgren down a young and helpless child. This Skeen els above the offense level otherwise pro- DeFazio Lowey crime shocked our community and Slaughter vided for a crime of violence, if the crime of DeGette Luther Smith (WA) violence is against a child. struck fear in the hearts of parents. Delahunt Maloney (NY) Snyder Mr. Speaker, unspeakable crimes de- DeLauro Manzullo ‘‘(b) DEFINITIONS.—In this section— Spratt serve the harshest of penalties. The Deutsch Markey ‘‘(1) the term ‘crime of violence’ means any Stabenow Diaz-Balart Martinez crime punishable by imprisonment for a Cunningham amendment ensures that Stark Dickey Mascara term exceeding one year that has as an ele- those who seek to harm the helpless Strickland Dicks Matsui ment the use, attempted use, or threatened Stupak are met with severe punishment. His Dingell McCarthy (MO) Sununu use of physical force against the person of amendment will dramatically increase Dixon McCarthy (NY) Tanner another; and sentencing requirements for those indi- Doggett McCollum ‘‘(2) the term ‘child’ means a person who Dooley McDermott Tauscher viduals who commit violent crimes has not attained 13 years of age at the time Doolittle McGovern Tauzin Terry of the offense.’’. against children under 13 years of age. Doyle McInnis I strongly urge all of my colleagues Dreier McKinney Thompson (CA) (b) CONFORMING REPEAL.—Section 240002 of Dunn McNulty Thompson (MS) such Act (28 U.S.C. 994 note) is repealed. to support this very important amend- Edwards Meehan Thornberry (c) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of ment that will protect our Nation’s Ehrlich Meek (FL) Thune contents of such Act is amended by striking children from violent crimes. Engel Meeks (NY) Thurman the item relating to subtitle C of title XVII Tierney The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman Eshoo Menendez and the items relating to sections 170301 Toomey from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) seek Etheridge Millender- through 170303 and inserting the following: Evans McDonald Towns time in opposition? Farr Miller (FL) Udall (CO) ‘‘Subtitle C—Enhanced Penalties for Crimes Mr. CONYERS. Yes, I do, Mr. Chair- Fattah Miller, George Udall (NM) of Violence Against Children ´ man. Filner Minge Velazquez Under Age 13 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Fletcher Mink Vento ‘‘Sec. 170301. Enhanced penalties for crimes from Michigan is recognized for 5 min- Foley Moakley Visclosky of violence against children Forbes Moore Walsh under age 13.’’. utes. Ford Moran (KS) Wamp Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, could SEC. ll3. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Fossella Moran (VA) Waters I ask the gentleman that has promoted Fowler Morella Watt (NC) ASSISTANCE AVAILABLE TO STATE OR LOCAL LAW AUTHORITIES IN IN- Frank (MA) Murtha Waxman the amendment, how much time did VESTIGATING POSSIBLE HOMICIDES Frost Myrick Weller the awful murderer of 9-year-old Mat- OF CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF Ganske Nadler Wexler 13. thew Cecchi get? What was his sen- Gejdenson Napolitano Weygand To the maximum extent practicable, the tence? Gekas Neal Woolsey Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, if Gephardt Nethercutt Wu Federal Bureau of Investigation may provide Gibbons Ney Wynn to State and local law enforcement authori- the gentleman would yield, I do not Gilman Northup Young (AK) ties such assistance as such authorities may know the answer to that.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00079 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13155 b 1830 reason that my good friend, the gen- after he made the same statements Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, let me tleman from California (Mr. that the gentleman just made. just point out two things. CUNNINGHAM) just alluded to or made Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. I think that would be pretty impor- obvious. If every time we get emotional Chairman, will the gentleman yield? tant in this kind of a matter because in response to some criminal offense, Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I yield to the the implication is, of course, that there we come onto the floor of the United gentleman from North Carolina. Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. was an insufficient sentencing of the States House of Representatives and Chairman, I appreciate the gentleman killer of this 9-year-old boy. we beat our chests and try to show The second point I would like to America how hard we are on crime by yielding. Just because 400 and some make is that the State handles most of directing that sentences be increased, people vote for something is the very these kinds of crimes, and to my what we are doing is undermining the reason that I am saying we are in a po- knowledge these are not normally Fed- whole integrity of our sentencing sys- litical position here, and sometimes we eral issues, and finally, the U.S. Sen- tem in this country, and we end up cannot afford not to vote for some- tencing Commission is the body that with a hodgepodge of sentences that thing, and that is why we took this we established in the Congress to make make absolutely no sense and make a sentencing process out of politics, so sentencing recommendations inde- mockery of our whole sentencing struc- that we would have a reasonable and pendent of the political process. Now if ture in this country. rational sentencing policy in this coun- for some reason we were dissatisfied That is the very reason that we put try. It is not that I am not emotional with them, then we may want to com- in place a U.S. Sentencing Commission so that every time somebody gets mur- about it, I am emotional about it. municate that through the Committee Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Reclaiming my on the Judiciary which regularly dered and we get emotional, we do not come in and make an emotional polit- time, Mr. Chairman, let me read to the brings and hears reports from the Sen- gentleman what the Sentencing Com- tencing Commission. ical response which undermines the or- derly administration of justice in this mission itself says. So I just want to point out that this If Congress feels that additional country, and colleagues are going to may not be the most orderly way to measures need to be taken in this area, see throughout this debate a number of pass criminal statutes raising the Sen- it should direct the commission to take different times where for various rea- tencing Commission’s levels in this them without micromanaging the com- sons people are going to come in and way. mission’s work. In order they have Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance try to undermine the system that we asked us to do this, and this is exactly of my time. have put in place through the United the reason that we have gone forward. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, I States Sentencing Commission. The Senate did not have time to take yield myself such time as I may con- The reason that we have a U.S. Sen- this bill up last time. We feel just like sume. tencing Commission is so that we do I would tell my friend that this is the not have haphazard sentencing in this in Aimee’s law or Megan’s Law every same, actually the same language. I country, we do not end up with a single thing that we do to help prevent children being murdered is a plus, and will not submit this for the RECORD in hodgepodge of inconsistent, not well- the full House because it is almost the thought-out sentencing for criminal of- this is a win, this is a win-win and a same verbatim that the gentleman fenses in this country. positive in a crime bill that we are try- spoke to with Mr. Chrysler about the So it is the very reason that the gen- ing to fight for. As my colleagues know, I wanted to commission. I am very familiar with tleman from California (Mr. call Megan’s law Duke-Dunn-Deale be- the commission. As a matter of fact, CUNNINGHAM) just articulated that im- cause JENNIFER DUNN and NATHAN the gentleman here goes through 15 pels me to rise in opposition to this DEAL were the ones that really started minutes of dialogue on how that it amendment. We do not need to beat it, and I kind of piggy-backed on it. should not be germane, that it was po- ourselves on the chest and show how But they were the same things said, litical. This vote was 14 to 4, and the difficult and harsh we are on crime. We and I would challenge the gentleman to gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- have a Sentencing Commission that look on the computer. I used to think YERS), who wrote consenting language, sets a uniform standard. there were 1 or 2 bad sexual abusers, actually ended up voting for it after Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may con- there are hundreds in your district. fighting it on the floor. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman I would say to the gentleman this is sume. and I ask for the support of this about leadership in this House and in Mr. Chairman, I think the gentleman amendment. the body. It is not about a particular on the other side of the aisle knows me The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate person. Whether we have Aimee or well enough. I have never had to beat on this amendment expired. Megan’s Law or whoever you have, this on my chest. Life has been difficult at The question is on the amendment is an important factor. This goes after times, and I have always carried offered by the gentleman from Cali- the family values of this body. It also through with action. fornia (Mr. CUNNINGHAM). tells people in this time of summer If the gentleman says that I am emo- The question was taken; and the when people are going on vacations tional about children being murdered Chairman announced that the ayes ap- that our parks and recreation areas are in the vernacular, I plead guilty. I am peared to have it. for children, not for murderers. very emotional about it, and I know Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance the gentleman is about it, too, and I demand a recorded vote. of my time. am not suggesting that he is not. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield I do not have much time, only 5 min- Resolution 209, further proceedings on such time as he may consume to the utes, but this was the same arguments the amendment offered by the gen- gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. about the Sentencing Commission. As tleman from California (Mr. WATT). a matter of fact, the gentleman from CUNNINGHAM) will be postponed. Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) made this. I The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to Chairman, I appreciate the gentleman would be happy to submit it to the consider amendment No. 11 printed in yielding this time to me, and I rise in RECORD in the full body, the same part A of House Report 106–186. opposition to this amendment not be- exact verbiage right down the line, and AMENDMENT NO. 11 OFFERED BY MR. GREEN OF cause it may not be a worthwhile thing 414 people said that the gentleman was WISCONSIN to do, to increase the offense level for wrong. Mr. CONYERS, who spoke in the Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- such a heinous crime by five levels over same language that the gentleman man, I offer an amendment. what it currently is for somebody who about the Sentencing Commission, The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- is 13 years or younger, but for the very ended up voting for the legislation ignate the amendment.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00080 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13156 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 The text of the amendment is as fol- The Chair recognizes the gentleman served time for doing it before, in my lows: from Wisconsin (Mr. GREEN). view that person is self-defiant. He has Part A amendment No. 11 offered by Mr. Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- shown us that he is unwilling or unable GREEN of Wisconsin: man, I yield myself such time as I may to stop his chain of violence. Add at the end the following: consume. This amendment, I admit, is not SEC. ll. MANDATORY LIFE IMPRISONMENT FOR Mr. Chairman, today we debate and about punishment, it is not about de- REPEAT SEX OFFENDERS AGAINST consider legislation aimed at pro- terrence. Quite simply, this amend- CHILDREN. tecting our young people from crime ment is about removing bad actors (a) AMENDMENT OF TITLE 18, UNITED STATES from society, keeping them away from CODE.—Section 3559 of title 18, United States and violence. Well, Mr. Chairman, I Code, is amended by adding at the end the rise today to offer an amendment our friends, our families, our streets. following new subsection: aimed at protecting our children from Now many of my colleagues are fa- ‘‘(e) MANDATORY LIFE IMPRISONMENT FOR a particularly devastating form of vio- miliar with my good friend Mark REPEATED SEX OFFENSES AGAINST CHIL- lence, and that is sexual violence. The Klaas, whose name has come up quite a DREN.— amendment is known as the Two bit in the debate today, and as many of ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—A person who is con- Strikes and You Are Out Child Protec- my colleagues are aware, he is a dedi- victed of a Federal sex offense in which a tion Act. It is similar to my bill, H.R. cated child safety advocate. He is the minor is the victim shall be sentenced to life founder of the Mark Klaas Foundation imprisonment if the person has a prior sex 1989, which enjoys bipartisan cospon- conviction in which a minor was the victim, sorship. Furthermore, it builds upon for Kids. unless the sentence of death is imposed. the fine work done by my colleague b 1845 ‘‘(2) DEFINITIONS.—For the purposes of this from Texas (Mr. FROST) and his law The story is unfortunately all too fa- subsection— known as the Amber Hagerman Child mous. His daughter, Polly, 12 years old, ‘‘(A) the term ‘Federal sex offense’ means Protection Act of 1996. was kidnapped from her home in Cali- an offense under section 2241 (relating to ag- Now this is really a very simple pro- gravated sexual abuse), 2242 (relating to sex- fornia, brutally molested and mur- posal. It provides for a life sentence for ual abuse), 2243 (relating to sexual abuse of a dered. I have in fact here in my file a those sick individuals who repeatedly minor or ward), 2244 (relating to abusive sex- letter from Mr. Klaas strongly sup- prey on our children. This amendment ual contact), 2245 (relating to sexual abuse porting the amendment that we have says something very simple. It says resulting in death), or 2251A (relating to sell- here today. ing or buying of children), or an offense that if someone is arrested and con- I would also like to recognize, once under section 2423 (relating to transpor- victed of a serious sex crime against again, the great work done by my col- tation of minors) involving the transpor- kids and then, after serving that time league, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. tation of, or the engagement in a sexual act they do it yet again, under this plan, FROST) who offered the Amber with, an individual who has not attained 16 Mr. Chairman, they will go to prison years of age; Hagerman Child Protection Act of 1996. for the rest of their life. ‘‘(B) the term ‘prior sex conviction’ means The gentleman from Texas (Mr. FROST) Now almost as important as what a conviction for which the sentence was im- was successful in creating a Federal this bill does is what it does not do. posed before the conduct occurred forming two-strikes law covering the crime of This bill in no way conflicts with the the basis for the subsequent Federal sex of- aggravated sexual abuse. I commend fense, and which was for either— fine work of my colleague the gen- his work and I hope to build on his ‘‘(i) a Federal sex offense; or tleman from Texas (Mr. FROST). It ‘‘(ii) an offense under State law consisting achievement today. builds upon it. It makes it stronger, This bill creates a new repeat of- of conduct that would have been a Federal just as it builds upon the three strikes sex offense if, to the extent or in the manner fender clause, or a two-strikes provi- and you are out law passed by this Con- specified in the applicable provision of title sion. It not only includes aggravated 18— gress several years ago. sexual abuse, but it also includes other This bill does not federalize in any ‘‘(I) the offense involved interstate or for- serious sex crimes as well. Crimes like way our sexual assault laws, and fi- eign commerce, or the use of the mails; or sexual abuse of juveniles, the selling ‘‘(II) the conduct occurred in any common- nally, this bill does not simply pile and buying of children, and the trans- wealth, territory, or possession of the United criminal penalties on for sexual as- portation of those under 16 for illicit, States, within the special maritime and ter- saults. It has been narrowly drafted to illegal sexual activity. I would also ritorial jurisdiction of the United States, in target a very small group of individ- like to point out that under this a Federal prison, on any land or building uals, but individuals who cause so very owned by, leased to, or otherwise used by or amendment, just as with the Frost much damage and destruction in our under the control of the Government of the amendment, previously State offenses society, damage to children, damage to United States, or in the Indian country as which would have qualified as a Fed- families, damage to communities. It fo- defined in section 1151; eral crime, a Federal strike, had they ‘‘(C) the term ‘minor’ means any person cuses on those who repeatedly molest been prosecuted as such, would count under the age of 18 years; and our children. as a strike. ‘‘(D) the term ‘State’ means a State of the Mr. Chairman, in my home State of United States, the District of Columbia, and Mr. Chairman, I urge all of my col- Wisconsin 77 percent of all sexual as- leagues to support this common-sense, any commonwealth, territory, or possession sault victims are juveniles, and the re- of the United States.’’. yet very important child protection cidivism rate of the monsters who prey (b) TITLE 18 CONFORMING AND TECHNICAL amendment. If my colleagues want to on these children is extraordinarily AMENDMENTS.— strike back at the alarming rate of sex- (1) SECTION 2247.—Section 2247 of title 18, high. An Emory University report done ual offenses against kids, my col- United States Code, is amended by inserting some years ago suggested that the av- leagues will support this amendment. I ‘‘, unless section 3559(e) applies’’ before the erage child molester will commit 150 hope that they do. final period. acts of child molestation during his (2) SECTION 2426.—Section 2426 of title 18, Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance lifetime, 150. Furthermore, there is ac- of my time. United States Code, is amended by inserting tually a study from the Washington ‘‘, unless section 3559(e) applies’’ before the Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise final period. Post that suggests the number is high- in opposition. (3) TECHNICAL AMENDMENTS.—Sections er, perhaps twice as high. I know these The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman 2252(c)(1) and 2252A(d)(1) of title 18, United numbers sound unbelievable, I know we from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) is recog- States Code, are each amended by striking do not want to believe them, but unfor- nized for 10 minutes. ‘‘less than three’’ and inserting ‘‘fewer than tunately they are real, and they de- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3’’. mand our action. Every time one of myself such time as I may consume. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House these sexual offenders offends, he de- Mr. Chairman, I would begin by Resolution 209, the gentleman from stroys another life, he steals innocence pointing out that we are now in the Wisconsin (Mr. GREEN) and a Member yet again. When we find someone who slippery slope of mandatory mini- opposed each will control 10 minutes. has done this terrible act, after having mums, and there is a question about

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00081 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13157 the policy wisdom of mandatory mini- would not. It would essentially recod- ous crimes. My question was, are there mums that would affect this kind of an ify the proposal and position of the any crimes for which the sentencing amendment. We are taking judicial dis- gentleman from Texas (Mr. FROST). guidelines now are a year or less? cretion in individual cases away from What this bill does is create a two- Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- the judge and unless there is some strikes provision, a new provision with- man, it covers no other crimes besides compelling reason that this discretion in Federal law; codifies the proposal of the ones that I have stated to the gen- in the judiciary has been abused, or the gentleman from Texas (Mr. FROST) tleman. that there are more and more cases and puts that within that. It does not Mr. SCOTT. Do any of those crimes coming into the Federal system, this in any way conflict with it. provide for a penalty by sentencing seems to be another emotional state- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- guidelines of a year or less? ment in the form of an amendment ing my time, it does not conflict, but Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. I have that we are now dealing with. what does it apply to? Because it ap- given the gentleman the maximum Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance pears, looking through all of these sec- sentences that I have under these. tions, that some crimes for which one of my time. Mr. SCOTT. What I have asked for is Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- could get probation, two of those would for sentences for which the normal man, I yield myself such time as I may result in a life imprisonment. punishment is a year or less. Are there consume. I mean that is why we have a Sen- I certainly agree with my learned tencing Commission. They can go any of those covered? colleague from Michigan. This is a very through this to determine what the ap- Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- emotional subject, there are no two propriate sentence would be, and we man, I have just given the gentleman ways about it. Of course the day we are having a great deal of problems the information that I have. cease to be emotional about child mo- trying to determine all of the areas to Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, we can- lestation is the day I cease to be proud which it might apply. It obviously ap- not get an answer to the question, and to serve in this institution, and I know plies to the very serious sexual of- that is the problem with trying to do the gentleman shares that sentiment. I fenses, but there are a lot of offenses this on the floor and not in committee. respect his opinion, and that is why listed in there, touching through cloth- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance this proposal is so carefully and nar- ing, for example, that it may apply to, of my time. rowly tailored. It is built upon the and two offenses of that for which pro- Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- three-strikes proposal that was passed bation would probably be the sentence man, how much time do I have remain- by a democratically-controlled Con- would result in a mandatory life sen- ing? gress some years ago. It is also based tence. Is that right? The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman upon the proposal of the gentleman Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- from Wisconsin (Mr. GREEN) has 3 min- from Texas (Mr. FROST) which again I man, if the gentleman would yield, utes remaining; the gentleman from commend. which part is the gentleman’s ques- Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 5 minutes I took to heart the gentleman’s argu- tion? remaining. ments on a previous matter in which Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- he talked about adding clutter, I think ing my time, what else does it apply to man, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman was the term, to the law, and was con- other than section 2241? What kinds of from Florida (Mr. FOLEY). cerned about a lack of clarity when we activities does it apply to? Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, I strong- take sentencing away from the Sen- Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- ly urge passage of the Green amend- tencing Commission. I respect that. In man, if the gentleman will yield, it ex- ment to put repeat sex offenders behind the case, though, of this proposal, I plicitly provides, section 2241, as the bars once and for all. gentleman referred to, the aggravated would submit that we add clarity and When a child is robbed of his inno- sexual abuse, which is currently the simplicity to the law, because we send cence by a sex offender, there are no maximum sentence is any term of a very strong signal with it. Instead of second chances for that child. The lit- years or life. It provides for sexual having conflicting terms and sending tle boy or girl must carry the shame, abuse for which the sentence is 20 conflicting signals, this one is rather the fear, and the hurt for the rest of years; sexual abuse of a minor, 15-year simple. Again, this is based upon the their life. Ironically, when a sex of- penalty; abuse of sexual contact, 12- three-strikes law which this institu- fender is released from prison, they do year penalty; sexual abuse resulting in tion has previously passed and which have a second chance to change the death which is a term of years or life or many, if not most, States in the Nation course of their life. There are consider- capital punishment; the buying and have. able resources available for them to selling of children, not less than 20 Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance get treatment and counseling so that years; and the transportation of minors of my time. they can control their problems. Stud- across State lines for illegal sexual Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield ies show that a considerable number of purposes. such time as he may consume to the sex offenders have molested more than distinguished gentleman from Virginia I would also remind the gentleman that we are talking in all of these cases one child before and after their first (Mr. SCOTT). conviction. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, one of the about a second offense. So the indi- problems of doing this outside of the vidual that we are referring to here Once a sex offender is caught, they committee is that we do not have the must have been arrested, convicted, must be punished and treated imme- opportunity to research and figure out and served his time for a previous com- diately so that more children are not exactly what the impact of the amend- mission of such an offense. put in danger. The average convicted ment is. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- child molester only spends 2.2 years in Section 2241 of the code already has a ing my time, are there any offenses in prison. Sex offenders cannot be allowed two-strikes provision. If I could engage here that if one does twice, do the sen- to repeat their crimes. We cannot con- the gentleman from Wisconsin in a col- tencing guidelines now provide for a tinue to put our children at risk, and I loquy, I would like to inquire of him, year or less for any predicate offenses strongly support the Green amendment how does this amendment change that the gentleman is describing? on two strikes. present Federal law? Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- man, if the gentleman will continue to myself such time as I may consume. man, will the gentleman yield? yield, the information that I just gave To the distinguished author of the Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentleman the gentleman, the information I have amendment, might I try to make the from Wisconsin. on the sentences reaches those crimes. point that the gentleman from Virginia Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, the gen- was discussing in a little bit different man, with respect to this provision, it tleman has crimes that are very seri- way?

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00082 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.002 H16JN9 13158 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 What the concern is, is whether or that would be a minor offense. These the comments of the Chair of the sub- not this amendment allows a mis- are major offenses the gentleman is committee and the ranking member of demeanor State offense such as a mis- talking about. These are major sex of- the Subcommittee on Crime, that this demeanor sexual battery as a predicate fenders. They are repeat offenders. And amendment, as salutory as it is in- offense. And if it does, the gentleman I certainly, for one, believe that we tended to be, might better serve the sees the problem of some very minor ought to put them away as the gen- purpose of an orderly process if it were offenses, a couple, that would then tleman from Wisconsin wants to do, so withdrawn at this time for a com- bring us into a mandatory life sen- I strongly support his amendment, and mittee review. tence. I thank him for offering it. The gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. This could move us into the cruel and b 1900 GREEN) has made a very good and unusual punishment prohibition of the strong case, but it seems to me that we eighth amendment, and I ask my col- Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- are leaving some things that really league if there has been consideration man, I yield myself such time as I may have to be researched by staff, and that of this point. I raise it again because consume. we might be able to proceed on this we have not had hearings. Mr. Chairman, I would just briefly very quickly as a freestanding bill. Could the gentleman comment on summarize. I appreciate gentleman’s After all, we still have a great number that? concerns about the lack of a hearing. I of months remaining before this term Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- did not choose the pace with which this is over, and my fears have not been al- man, will the gentleman yield? moved. layed. Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- But let me say this, today we are It would seem to me that this juve- tleman from Wisconsin. taking or seizing upon a historic oppor- nile justice bill itself would not be Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- tunity to not only punish young of- harmed in any way were the gentleman man, first off, I appreciate the point. I fenders, but hopefully create protec- to accede to my invitation. do better appreciate the question now tions for young victims. That is obvi- The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate that it was raised. The answer to the ously what this is all about. on this amendment has expired. first question about misdemeanor This is a commonsense measure, not The question is on the amendment State offense is no, it would not be cov- a radical departure from law. We have offered by the gentleman from Wis- ered by this. a two strikes and you are out for some consin (Mr. GREEN). Secondly, this is the law in Wis- sexual offenses, for one type of sex The amendment was agreed to. consin already, and this has been the crime we have a three strikes law. It is now in order to consider amend- law for some time in Wisconsin. Obvi- This is a commonsense proposal. It ment No. 12 printed in Part A of House ously, I keep referring back, we have a says that for a narrow class of crimi- Report 106–186. nals, those who repeatedly prey upon three-strikes law here on the Federal AMENDMENT NO. 12 OFFERED BY MR. CANADY OF level that would cover many of these young people, we cannot wait around FLORIDA same crimes and we have a three- for three strikes. Three strikes is too Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- strikes law that would cover many of many: Too many criminals, too many man, pursuant to the rule, I offer an these same types of crimes in nearly victims. amendment. every State in the Union. Again, we are This bill says if we find someone who The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- talking about repeated offenses; an of- has done it a second time, they are a ignate the amendment. fense that is committed after someone self-defined repeat offender and we The text of the amendment is as fol- has been arrested and convicted of one must remove them for the sake of our lows: children, our families, and our commu- of these offenses, and that after having Part A amendment No. 12 offered by Mr. served his time, doing it yet again. nities. CANADY of Florida: Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, re- Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- Add at the end the following: claiming my time, I thank the gen- ance of my time. SEC. . INCREASE OF AGE RELATING TO TRANS- tleman. Does the gentleman appreciate Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield FER OF OBSCENE MATERIAL. that had we had a hearing in the Sub- 1 minute to the gentleman from Vir- Section 1470 of title 18, United States Code, committee on Crime, these kinds of ginia (Mr. SCOTT). is amended by striking ‘‘16’’ each place it ap- questions might not have been raised Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I will not pears and inserting ‘‘18’’. here in a colloquy fashion which we take the full minute. I would just point The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House have to research the answers on after out that one of the reasons we have a Resolution 209, the gentleman from the debate, and unfortunately, after problem is the term in the bill is ‘‘Fed- Florida (Mr. CANADY) and a Member op- the vote. But I see where the gen- eral sexual offense.’’ The code goes posed each will control 5 minutes. tleman is coming from. He is assuring back and forth between what a sexual The Chair recognizes the gentleman us that these would all be serious felo- act is and what sexual contact means. from Florida (Mr. CANADY). nies that would result in a mandatory Sexual contact could be patting some- Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- life sentence by virtue of this amend- one on the rear end. If that is what we man, I yield myself such time as I may ment. are talking about, getting two offenses consume. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of that and getting life imprisonment, Mr. Chairman, for decades it has been of my time. it is obviously out of control. a Federal crime to distribute in inter- Mr. GREEN of Wisconsin. Mr. Chair- That is why we need a committee state commerce material that is ob- man, I yield 30 seconds to the distin- hearing, so we can actually deliberate scene; that is, material which is pat- guished gentleman from Florida (Mr. and get a straight answer to the ques- ently offensive, sexually explicit, and MCCOLLUM). tions we have been asking. We have without serious value. As it has been Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I been denied that, and here we are, defined by the Supreme Court, obscen- certainly support this amendment. I looking at a mandatory life imprison- ity is by definition outside the protec- concur with the gentleman from Michi- ment potentially on information that tion of the First Amendment of the gan that this is unfortunate in many we cannot quite understand because it United States Constitution. ways. We have a number of amend- is presented outside of the regular Last year this Congress passed a law ments out here that might have been order. which has been codified at 18 U.S.C., separate bills going through our sub- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield section 1470, providing enhanced pen- committee and ironed some of these myself such time as I may consume. alties for distributing this illegal ob- things out, but I am being reassured by Mr. Chairman, the committee finds scene material to children under 16 staff who have looked over this that we itself at some point of difficulty here. years of age. Under this law, purveyors are not indeed trampling on anything It would seem to me, especially with of obscenity under the age of 16 are

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00083 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13159 subject to imprisonment for up to 10 through now to avoid the disruption of that it is not at all unusual for Mem- years, rather than 5 years. the process of the House that would bers to go to the Committee on Rules The amendment I have submitted have otherwise incurred. I believe that with an amendment which has not been would simply increase the age of the is the reality of why we are here today. through the committee process, to minors to which the prohibition would Frankly, I think it is unfortunate. I have that amendment made in order, apply from children under 16 years of would have preferred to see hearings and then have it debated on the floor age to children under 18 years of age. and markups conducted on all these without the benefit of hearings. There is no reason why Congress should matters. But under the circumstances, So the fact that this amendment is not fully protect all minors from ob- I think we are dealing with this in the here without having been through the scene material. best way possible, given the determina- hearing process is by no means extraor- Again, I would point out to my col- tion, the apparent determination, of dinary. I am sure the gentleman from leagues that the material we are talk- some people to disrupt the legislative Michigan has brought amendments to ing about here is material which, by process unless these issues were the floor that have not been through definition, is unprotected under the brought to the floor immediately. the committee process. I do not have First Amendment. I believe that those Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I examples, but I do not think we would who provide such material to minors thank the gentleman for his response. I have to search far or wide to find ex- should be singled out for a harsher pen- happen to recall that the juvenile jus- amples of the gentleman from Michi- alty. This proposal that is before the tice markups were canceled on one, gan doing that. That is nothing that is House now would simply ensure that two, three, maybe four different occa- against that. all minors receive the protection of the sions, and I do not think that whatever I do agree with the gentleman’s gen- law that was passed last year pro- the objection that anybody on the eral point, that it is better to work tecting minors under 16 years of age. Committee on the Judiciary may have issues through the process, but that I would urge my colleagues to sup- had to any of the substance, I do not does not mean that every amendment port this simple amendment. think this would have run into any dif- has to be considered in that way. I cer- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance ficulty. I do not think the gentleman tainly think in amendments such as of my time. imagines that this was part of what- this that the gentleman, as I under- The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman ever the problem was. stand it, agrees to, that it is appro- Mr. CANADY of Florida. I would cer- from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) seek priate for us to bring them to the floor. time in opposition? tainly agree. I would hope that all the I urge all the Members to support Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I move Members of the House could support this amendment that I think really to strike the last word, rather than this amendment. I believe it is appro- more than anything else corrects an priate for us to be dealing with this seek time in opposition. oversight in the law that we passed very simple amendment at this point. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is last year, and frames that law more ap- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I have unable to strike the last word. three sentences on this. The fact of the propriately than we did in the last Con- Without objection, the gentleman matter is that legislating from the gress. from Michigan is recognized to control The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate floor on matters of Federal criminal 5 minutes in opposition. on this amendment has expired. law is not the most orderly process in There was no objection. The question is on the amendment the world, even when it appears to be a Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield offered by the gentleman from Florida matter that we can all, on the surface, myself such time as I may consume. (Mr. CANADY). support. Mr. Chairman, I wanted to point out I refer to the immediately preceding The amendment was agreed to. to the gentleman from Florida (Mr. amendment offered by the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to CANADY), who I believe is a member of consider amendment No. 13 printed in from Wisconsin (Mr. GREEN), which the Subcommittee on Crime, that it certainly sounds appropriate, but we Part A of House Report 106–186. would have been my hope that we ran into a problem. In the 10 minutes AMENDMENT NO. 13 OFFERED BY MRS. KELLY would have brought this through the we have been debating this measure we Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, I offer committee process. have not run into a problem, but it is an amendment. I have no objection to the measure. not beyond my understanding that The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- As a matter of fact, on its face I quite there might be a problem in here. ignate the amendment. agree with it. But it is this process I do not think our staff has spent The text of the amendment is as fol- that could have quite as easily brought much time on this. There have been no lows: this to the floor through the full com- hearings. As I have indicated, I support Part A amendment No. 13 offered by Mrs. mittee and the subcommittee. the measure, from what I have heard of KELLY: I was wondering if there were some it on the floor. It still is not an orderly Add at the end the following new section: reason that it did not happen that way. way to proceed. I regret that we had to SEC. ll. CHILD HOSTAGE-TAKING TO EVADE AR- REST OR OBSTRUCT JUSTICE. Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- do it this way. I am sorry that what- (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 55 of title 18, man, will the gentleman yield? ever concerned persons did not cooper- Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- United States Code, is amended by adding at ate so that these hearings in the com- the end the following new section: tleman from Florida. mittee could be scheduled. I do not Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- ‘‘§ 1205. Child hostage-taking to evade arrest think it was around this measure, or obstruct justice man, let me express to the gentleman which is coming to my attention rath- ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Whoever uses force or from Michigan my agreement that it er late. threatens to use force against any officer or would be preferable for us to move all So Mr. Chairman, I have no objection agency of the Federal Government, and items through the committee process. to this amendment offered by the gen- seizes or detains, or continues to detain, a That is my preference. I would have tleman from Florida (Mr. CANADY). I do child in order to— preferred for this whole process to be put the committee on notice that I am ‘‘(1) obstruct, resist, or oppose any officer operated differently. going to ask my staff to continue to re- of the United States, or other person duly But I will tell the gentleman that it search the matter and bring to the gen- authorized, in serving, or attempting to is my view that this process is going serve or execute, any legal or judicial writ, tleman’s attention anything that may process, or warrant of any court of the the way it is because there are certain be the fruits of that research. United States; or people not on this side of the aisle who Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- ‘‘(2) compel any department or agency of decided that they were going to force man, I yield myself such time as I may the Federal Government to do or to abstain the issue, that we could not act quick- consume. from doing any act; ly enough to satisfy them. We are Mr. Chairman, just in responding to or attempts to do so, shall be punished in ac- going through the process we are going the gentleman’s point, I would observe cordance with subsection (b).

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00084 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13160 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 ‘‘(b) SENTENCING.—Any person who violates arrest or obstruct justice by using chil- porting this bill, as they again do this subsection (a)— dren as hostages. This provision tough- year. ‘‘(1) shall be imprisoned not less than 10 ens penalties against any person who Mr. SCOTT. Reclaiming my time, Mr. years and not more than 25 years; takes a child 18 years of age or younger Chairman, I am sure it would probably ‘‘(2) if injury results to the child as a result pass. I just wanted to know what we of the violation, shall be imprisoned not less hostage in order to resist, compel or than 20 years and not more than 35 years; oppose the Federal Government. were doing. Apparently we will not find and Such a person would serve a min- out. ‘‘(3) if death results to the child as a result imum sentence of 10 years to a max- Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, I yield of the violation, shall be subject to the pen- imum of death depending on the extent 11⁄2 minutes to my colleague, the gen- alty of death or be imprisoned for life. of injury to the child. tleman from New York (Mr. GILMAN). ‘‘(c) DEFINITION.—For purposes of this sec- A number of States, including Cali- Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise to tion, the term ‘child’ means an individual fornia, Illinois, Florida, are already en- make a strong statement for the pro- who has not attained the age of 18 years.’’. forcing tougher penalties on people tection of America’s children. Time (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of convicted of stealing children for their and time again we speak of our chil- sections for chapter 55 of title 18, United dren as our Nation’s most precious pos- States Code, is amended by adding at the end own personal gain. the following new item: I ask my colleagues to join me in this session. This amendment, the Kelly amendment, sends that message to our ‘‘1205. Child hostage-taking to evade arrest important effort to protect the lives or obstruct justice.’’. and well-being of our Nation’s children. children. I commend the gentlewoman It is my hope that together we can from New York (Mrs. KELLY) for intro- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House ducing this legislation. Resolution 209, the gentlewoman from make our Nation a safer place for ev- eryone, especially those who are least Just this month two fugitives were New York (Mrs. KELLY) and a Member arrested after kidnapping a five- opposed each will control 5 minutes. able to protect themselves. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance month-old boy from a Georgia trailer The Chair recognizes the gentle- park to escape capture. After fleeing woman from New York (Mrs. KELLY). of my time. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman for 4 days across half a dozen States, Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, I yield the fugitives were finally apprehended from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) claim the myself such time as I may consume. in Quebec. Fortunately, the child was Mr. Chairman, I rise today for the time in opposition? Mr. CONYERS. Yes, Mr. Chairman. unharmed and returned to his parents. purpose of offering an amendment that Crimes like this must not be taken The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman addresses the problem of children being lightly. This Kelly amendment tough- from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) is recog- taken as hostages. Far too many sce- ens penalties against any person who nized for 5 minutes. narios have been documented in which dares to take a child hostage in order Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield children are taken as hostages and ex- to evade arrest. This amendment pro- as much time as he may consume to posed to violence, emotional trauma, vides any criminal bringing a child as a the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. or physical harm at the hands of hostage into a crime will spend 10 SCOTT), the ranking member of the adults. years in prison; harm that child, he Subcommittee on Crime. For example, in New York a woman’s serves 20 years in prison; and should Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, this bill, estranged husband took her and their the child die, the perpetrator will serve again, did not go through the com- three children hostage at the point of a life or be subject to the death penalty. loaded shotgun. He held them for near- mittee so we do not know the impact. Today Congress is considering send- ly 4 hours, and at one point he alleg- The gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. ing a message to America’s commu- edly traded his 7-year-old son for a KELLY) has mentioned several heinous nities about safety for our Nation’s pack of cigarettes. crimes and has not indicated what time children. We are considering legisla- In Texas a man took 80 children hos- was given to those people upon convic- tion that will give communities the tage at an area day care facility. They tion. It would be interesting to see tools, the opportunity and protection were held at gunpoint and released what the Sentencing Guidelines would they want to give their children, a safe over a 30-hour period before the stand- say in those situations. environment in which to grow up. How- Without a hearing, it is difficult to off was brought thankfully to a non- ever, this legislation must also send a determine what impact this would have violent conclusion. message to those communities that one way or the other and, therefore, In Florida a suspected drug addict America will not take any threat to Mr. Chairman, again, it shows that we and murderer held two children ages 2 their children lightly. This amendment 1 are just out here trading sound bites, and 4 hostage for 2 ⁄2 days. An entire clarifies that message. Orlando neighborhood was evacuated who can come up with a name for a Accordingly, I urge our colleagues to during the standoff. Only when he bill, who can come up with and state a support the Kelly amendment. threatened to use the children as heinous crime and then raise whatever Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield human shields did a SWAT team rescue the penalty it was to something we do myself such time as I may consume. the children in a raid that resulted in not know what it is. Mr. Chairman, this proposal is simi- the death of the suspect. Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, will the lar to those that are imposed upon In Baltimore a man broke into a sec- gentleman yield? adult offenders of the drug and fire- ond-floor apartment, stabbing a young Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentle- arms laws, but what we are doing is mother and holding her 9-month-old woman from New York (Mrs. KELLY), promoting the use of mandatory mini- child hostage for 2 hours before a quick and ask if she would give us an idea of mums because it is concerned with response team could rescue the baby how much time was given in each of punishment and not prevention. and apprehend the suspect. those cases that she mentioned. It We have yet to realize that preven- would be helpful. tion is indeed the best way to address b 1915 Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, quite violence. Situations such as these are unac- frankly, I cannot give the gentleman So I want to suggest to the com- ceptable and cannot be tolerated. We in that information because I did not mittee that mandatory minimums, as Congress must do our part to prevent bring it to the floor with me. It may be this is, are not good policy; that they scenarios in which children are used as important for the gentleman to recog- are, in fact, misguided because they pawns by a violent adult. nize the fact that this amendment that create unfairness and require judicial The amendment I offer today is based I am offering passed the floor of the and correctional expenditures dis- on my bipartisan legislation, H.R. 51, House last year. It passed not only proportionate to any deterrent or reha- and will give new protection to our with the membership of the Republican bilitative effect that they may have. children. It establishes the strictest Party but also with a number of Mem- That is taken directly from a Drug punishments for those who would evade bers of the Democratic Party sup- Policy Research Center study of 1997.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00085 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13161 I do not think it is inappropriate to enforcement across the country a new Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that judges in individual cases and powerful weapon in the fight yield myself such time as I may con- are still in the best position to deter- against violent criminals. As I men- sume. mine what sentences are appropriate tioned earlier, there are disturbing ex- Mr. Chairman, my amendment makes for individual offenders. Mandatory amples of hostage situations involving it unlawful to transfer any firearm to a minimums take discretion away from children. I hope my colleagues will join juvenile if the transferror knows or has the Court to utilize other problem-solv- me and pass these new protections and reason to believe that the firearm will ing approaches to crime prevention. protect children from crime in Amer- be used in a school zone or in the com- What about the U.S. attorneys? When ica. mission of a serious violent felony. a mandatory minimum crime is in- Mr. Chairman, I want to also point This amendment goes to the heart of volved, this makes any attempt at plea out that in the last Congress, this bill the problem of straw purchasers, where bargaining, if they are moving up a did pass through the committee proc- someone else purchases a firearm for chain of crime figures, literally impos- ess. So I believe the gentleman from someone else who is disqualified or for sible. In this decade, the U.S. Sen- Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) did have a the purpose of giving it to a juvenile tencing Commission reported that over chance to look at it. for an unlawful purpose. Those are one-third of the Federal defendants Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- straw purchasers. whose criminal conduct should have ance of my time. Under current law, even if the triggered application of a mandatory The CHAIRMAN. The question is on transferror knows that the juvenile in- minimum provision have somehow the amendment offered by the gentle- tends to use the weapon to commit a even yet escaped the effects of such woman from New York (Mrs. KELLY). crime, the prohibition only covers provisions. The amendment was agreed to. handguns and handgun ammunition. So here for the third time in a single The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to Now, amendments have been offered evening we have criminal laws named consider amendment No. 14 printed in that expand this prohibition to semi- after some poor victim for whom our part A of House Report 106–186. automatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices, sympathies are overflowing, but wheth- AMENDMENT NO. 14 OFFERED BY MR. er or not this is the best way for us to HUTCHINSON or will be considered by the House. proceed as a matter of process still re- Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I However, even with the adoption of mains much in doubt. offer amendment No. 14. these amendments, it will not be We are still legislating with no com- The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- against the law to transfer a rifle or a mittee of original jurisdiction, that I ignate the amendment. shotgun to a juvenile when the can recall, having had anything to do The text of the amendment is as fol- transferror knows that the weapon will with what might be an otherwise well lows: be used to commit a crime. meaning amendment, to impose severe Part A amendment No. 14 offered by This does not impact any legitimate penalties on people who take children Mr. HUTCHINSON: transfers of firearms, shotguns for as hostage to evade arrest. At the end of the bill, insert the following: hunting purposes or other legitimate Why this was not able to come SEC. ll. PROHIBITION ON TRANSFERRING TO purposes. But as we know from the Col- through the committee in an orderly JUVENILE A FIREARM THAT THE orado tragedy, any firearm is sufficient way is not clear to me. This is not gun TRANSFEROR KNOWS OR HAS REA- to cause death, whether it is a handgun SON TO BELIEVE WILL BE USED IN A or not. My amendment closes this loop- legislation. It is the meat and potatoes SCHOOL ZONE OR IN A SERIOUS VIO- of the Subcommittee on Crime of the LENT FELONY. hole and actually does something posi- Committee on the Judiciary. (a) PROHIBITION.—Section 922 of title 18, tive to keep guns out of the hands of So I am again sorry that this could United States Code, is amended by inserting violent juveniles. not have been taken up in a more or- after subsection (y) the following: The penalties for violating this provi- derly way. ‘‘(z)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sion are the same as those found in Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, I yield sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer any fire- current law, which carries up to 10 30 seconds to the gentleman from Flor- arm to a person who the transferor knows or years in prison. However, this amend- has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile, ida (Mr. MCCOLLUM), the chairman of and knowing or having reasonable cause to ment anticipates the adoption of the the subcommittee. believe that the juvenile intends to possess, McCollum amendment, which amends Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I discharge, or otherwise use the firearm in a current law to provide for certain man- thank the gentlewoman from New school zone. datory minimums for violations of York (Mrs. KELLY) for yielding me this ‘‘(2) It shall be unlawful for a person to school zones and for use during the time. sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer any fire- commission of a serious violent felony. Mr. Chairman, I strongly support arm to a person who the transferor knows or Mr. Chairman, I believe it is impor- this amendment. It is a great bill that has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile, tant to note that in many of the recent she introduced last year that we passed and knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that the juvenile intends to possess, school shootings, students did use long here in the House, and I believe this is discharge, or otherwise use the firearm in guns, rifles and shotguns. To the extent the perfect case for a minimum manda- the commission of a serious violent felony. that an older friend or relation ac- tory sentence. ‘‘(3) For purposes of this subsection, the quires these guns for such unlawful If someone is going to take a child as term ‘juvenile’ means an individual who has uses, I believe it is important to hold a hostage to try to avoid a judicial writ not attained 18 years of age.’’. those accomplices accountable for or court process or to try to compel an (b) PENALTIES.—Section 924(a) of such title their actions and to discourage such is amended by adding at the end the fol- agency of the government to do some- purchases and transfers when it is used thing, they ought to have a minimum lowing: ‘‘(7)(A) A person, other than a juvenile, for a serious violent felony or for pur- mandatory sentence. It is a deterrent who violates section 922(z)(1) shall be fined poses of use in a school zone. message. That is what a minimum under this title, imprisoned as provided in Mr. Chairman, I would ask support mandatory sentence is. It takes a real- section 924(a)(6)(B)(ii), or both. for this amendment. ly bad apple off the street and takes ‘‘(B) A person, other than a juvenile, who Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance them off the street for a period of time. violates section 922(z)(2) shall be fined under of my time. I commend the gentlewoman from this title, imprisoned as provided in section The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman New York (Mrs. KELLY) for offering the 924(a)(6)(B)(iii), or both.’’. from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) seek bill. It is a good proposal and it should The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House time in opposition? be adopted. Resolution 209, the gentleman from Ar- Mr. CONYERS. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, I yield kansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) and a Member do, for purposes of debate. myself such time as I may consume. opposed each will control 5 minutes. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Mr. Chairman, once again, the pas- The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Michigan is recognized for 5 min- sage of this amendment would give law from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON). utes.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00086 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13162 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield I want to thank the gentleman from (b) RESTRICTED EXPLOSIVES DEFINED.—Sec- myself such time as I may consume. Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) for his cour- tion 841 of such title is amended by adding at Mr. Chairman, could I ask the gen- tesies that he has extended. the end the following: ‘‘(r) ‘Restricted explosives’ means high ex- tleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- ance of my time. plosives, blasting agents, detonators, and INSON), who is a member of the Com- more than 50 pounds of black powder.’’. mittee on the Judiciary and the author The CHAIRMAN. The question is on SEC. ll3. REQUIREMENT THAT APPLICATION of the amendment, whether shotguns the amendment offered by the gen- FOR FEDERAL EXPLOSIVES LICENSE and rifles are now within the purview tleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- OR PERMIT INCLUDE A PHOTO- of his amendment? INSON). GRAPH AND SET OF FINGERPRINTS Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, The amendment was agreed to. OF THE APPLICANT. The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 843(a) of title 18, will the gentleman yield? United States Code, is amended in the 1st Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- consider amendment No. 15 printed in part A of House Report 106–186. sentence by inserting ‘‘shall include the ap- tleman from Arkansas. plicant’s photograph and set of fingerprints, Mr. HUTCHISON. Mr. Chairman, I PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY which shall be taken and transmitted to the thank the gentleman for yielding. Mr. SCOTT. Parliamentary inquiry, Secretary by the chief law enforcement offi- Mr. Chairman, all firearms would be Mr. Chairman. cer of the applicant’s place of residence, under the purview of the amendment The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will and’’ before ‘‘shall be’’. that I am offering if the transfer is state his parliamentary inquiry. (b) CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER DE- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, is there a FINED.—Section 841 of such title, as amended with the knowledge that it is going to provision for skipping an amendment by section 2(b) of this Act, is amended by be used for the commission of a serious and coming back to it? adding at the end the following: violent felony or to be used in a school The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would re- ‘‘(s) ‘Chief law enforcement officer’ means zone. spond to the gentleman that—the one- the chief of police, the sheriff, or an equiva- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, in lent officer or the designee of any such indi- hour notice procedure established in view of that then I would like to state vidual.’’. House Resolution 209 aside—only by that we on this side have no objection SEC. ll4. EFFECTIVE DATE. unanimous consent in the full House to this amendment and withdraw any The amendments made by this Act shall could a change of sequence be accom- opposition to it. apply to conduct engaged in after the 180-day plished. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- period that begins with the date of the en- PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY actment of this Act. ance of my time. Mr. TRAFICANT. Parliamentary in- Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House quiry, Mr. Chairman. yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Resolution 209, the gentleman from The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will New York (Mr. QUINN) and a Member Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) state his parliamentary inquiry. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I do opposed each will control 5 minutes. Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, is it The Chair recognizes the gentleman not need 2 minutes but I thank the a rule to prohibit another Member from New York (Mr. QUINN). gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- from offering an amendment so print- INSON) for yielding me this time. Mr. QUINN. Mr. Chairman, I yield ed? myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, I just want to say I The CHAIRMAN. The rule provides Mr. Chairman, I rise to discuss an strongly support this amendment. The that an amendment may be offered by amendment made in order by the rule. gentleman is right, it does perfect an the Member designated in the report or Earlier today the House adopted legis- amendment I have already offered that by his or her designee. has been adopted out here today, and I lation which addresses my concerns re- AMENDMENT NO. 15 OFFERED BY MR. QUINN garding the purchase of explosives. I think it fills a loophole that needed to Mr. QUINN. Mr. Chairman, I offer an be filled so we do not have kids pos- therefore intend to withdraw my amendment. amendment here this evening. How- sessing a gun in conditions where they The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- ever, before I do so, I would like to just should not. ignate the amendment. I think the gentleman has done a The text of the amendment is as fol- make a few comments if I may. good service, and I support the amend- lows: First, I want to thank the gentleman from California (Chairman DREIER) and ment. Part A amendment No. 15 offered by Mr. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I QUINN: all of my colleagues on the Committee yield myself such time as I may con- At the end of the bill, insert the following: on Rules for making this amendment sume. TITLE ll—EXPLOSIVES RESTRICTIONS in order. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman SEC. ll1. SHORT TITLE. I would also like to thank the gen- from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) for his This title may be cited as the ‘‘Restricted tleman from Upstate New York (Mr. comments, and if I just might conclude Explosives Control Act of 1999’’. REYNOLDS), my friend and neighbor for on this issue by saying that I have ap- SEC. ll2. PROHIBITION AGAINST THE DISTRIBU- his assistance. TION OR RECEIPT OF RESTRICTED We have been working to restrict the proached the entire issue of violent ju- EXPLOSIVES WITHOUT A FEDERAL venile crime in terms of what can we PERMIT. sale of explosives since 1993 when four do to keep firearms out of the hands of (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 842 of title 18, bombs exploded in western New York violent teenagers, people who are prone United States Code, is amended— State, killing five people. Current law to crime, as well as criminals? (1) in subsection (a)(3)— enabled those responsible for the mur- (A) in subparagraph (A)— ders, who have been convicted and are b 1930 (i) by inserting ‘‘that are not restricted ex- now serving time, to buy the deadly That is why we can legitimately look plosives’’ after ‘‘explosive materials’’ the 2nd dynamite over the counter in another place such term appears; and at solving those problems. This amend- (ii) by striking ‘‘or’’ after the semicolon; State ssimply by providing false identi- ment certainly goes to the heart of (B) by redesignating subparagraph (B) as fication, completing a short Bureau of that by making sure there is a strong subparagraph (C) and inserting after sub- Alcohol and Tobacco and Firearms penalty for those who engage in straw paragraph (A) the following: form, and promising not to cross State purchases. We have seen that where we ‘‘(B) to distribute restricted explosives to lines. would use someone else to purchase a any person other than a licensee or permitee; Although New York State has tough firearm when they are disqualified or or’’; and laws with respect to the purchase of ex- have an unlawful purpose. I think this (C) in subparagraph (C) (as so redesig- plosives, the murderers were able to nated), by inserting ‘‘that are not restricted really puts a clamp and will be helpful explosives’’ after ‘‘explosive materials’’; and purchase dynamite simply by going to in addressing the serious problem that (2) in subsection (b)(3), by inserting ‘‘if the another State with weaker laws. this Congress as a whole is trying to explosive materials are not restricted explo- As we well know, however, we do not address in a bipartisan basis. sives,’’ before ‘‘a resident’’. need to go back 6 years to think of a

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00087 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13163

tragedy brought about with the use of from New York (Mr. QUINN) for an an- SEC. ll. LIMITATION ON PRISONER RELEASE explosives. Recent events have again swer. ORDERS. Mr. QUINN. Yes, it is, Mr. Chairman. (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 99 of title 28, demonstrated the pressing need for in- United States Code, is amended by adding at creased controls on the purchase of Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, fur- the end the following new section: ther reserving the right to object, such explosives. Over the weekend, in ‘‘§ 1632. Limitation on prisoner release orders fact, in my hometown of Hamburg, could the gentleman from New York ‘‘(a) LIMITATION.—Notwithstanding section New York, two of my constituents were indicate to me where within the volu- 3626(a)(3) of title 18 or any other provision of killed within a mile of my own house minous McCollum amendment is the law, in a civil action with respect to prison in a violent explosion. The bombing in language that would make it unneces- conditions, no court of the United States or Oklahoma City and the recent tragedy sary for his amendment? other court listed in section 610 shall have in Colorado are all obviously examples Mr. QUINN. Will the gentleman jurisdiction to enter or carry out any pris- as well. yield? oner release order that would result in the Again, currently, certain States Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, under release from or nonadmission to a prison, on allow dynamite and other explosives to my reservation of objection, I yield to the basis of prison conditions, of any person be sold over the counter. Language in subject to incarceration, detention, or ad- the gentleman from New York. mission to a facility because of a conviction the McCollum amendment, which was Mr. QUINN. We are perfectly satis- of a felony under the laws of the relevant ju- approved by the House earlier today, fied with the intent and the language risdiction, or a violation of the terms or con- requires criminal background checks of the McCollum amendment this ditions of parole, probation, pretrial release, before explosive materials can be afternoon, that it met the concerns or a diversionary program, relating to the transferred to nonlicensed buyers. This that we had. Although technical in na- commission of a felony under the laws of the McCollum amendment also requires in- ture, we had discussions this afternoon relevant jurisdiction. dividuals to obtain explosives from fed- with the Treasury Department and ‘‘(b) DEFINITIONS.—As used in this section— erally licensed dealers to obtain that ‘‘(1) the terms ‘civil action with respect to others to make certain that our bill, prison conditions’, ‘prisoner’, ‘prisoner re- same Federal permit. fashioned after Brady and others that lease order’, and ‘prison’ have the meanings I would like to thank the gentleman have been before the House years be- given those terms in section 3626(g) of title from Florida (Chairman MCCOLLUM) fore, are satisfied here today. 18; and and the Committee on the Judiciary Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, could ‘‘(2) the term ‘prison conditions’ means for addressing the problem. I point out to the gentleman from New conditions of confinement or the effects of Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- York (Mr. QUINN), the author, I am actions by government officials on the lives tleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). glad he had these discussions earlier. I of persons confined in prison. (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I do not know anything about them, of thank the gentleman from New York sections for chapter 99 of title 28, United course. I am not sure, but it is sug- States Code, is amended by adding at the end for yielding to me. gested that the gentleman’s amend- I simply want to commend the gen- the following new item: ment is stronger than the language he tleman for the work he has done over ‘‘1632. Limitation on prisoner release or- is referring to that appears in Mr. ders.’’. the years on the explosives issue. As the chairman of the Subcommittee on MCCOLLUM’S amendment. Is that cor- (c) CONSENT DECREES.— (1) TERMINATION OF EXISTING CONSENT DE- Crime, I know he has been involved, rect? Mr. Chairman, under my reservation CREES.—Any consent decree that was entered and I appreciate the fact that he is of objection, I yield to the gentleman into before the date of the enactment of the going to withdraw this amendment for Prison Litigation Reform Act of 1995, that is from New York (Mr. QUINN). reasons of technical nature dealing Mr. QUINN. Mr. Chairman, I appre- in effect on the day before the date of the en- with what has already been passed. actment of this Act, and that provides for I think the gentleman from New ciate the gentleman from Michigan remedies relating to prison conditions shall yielding to me. That is for the gentle- York (Mr. QUINN) deserves commenda- cease to be effective on the date of the enact- tion for this. He has been very, very in- man’s decision to decide, I guess, ment of this Act. volved with this issue. If it were not for whether it is stronger or not. I know (2) DEFINITIONS.—As used in this sub- section— his efforts, we might well not have the that for our purposes in working on this bill and the amendment, for now, (A) the term ‘‘consent decree’’ has the provisions we had in my amendment meaning given that term in section 3626(g) of earlier today. So I thank the gen- going on 4 or 5 years, that we are satis- fied that today’s action is more than title 18, United States Code; and tleman from New York for his efforts. (B) the term ‘‘prison conditions’’ has the Mr. QUINN. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- adequate, and we are prepared to go meaning given that term in section 1632(c) of ing my time, I thank the gentleman forward with the chairman. title 28, United States Code, as added by sub- from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) for his Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I section (a) of this section. kind words. I also appreciate the work thank the gentleman for his expla- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House of the House on the floor to make sure nations, and I withdraw my reservation Resolution 209, the gentleman from that the gentleman from New York had of objection. Texas (Mr. DELAY) and a Member op- an opportunity to rise here this The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection posed each will control 5 minutes. evening. to the request of the gentleman from The Chair recognizes the gentleman Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- New York? from Texas (Mr. DELAY). sent to withdraw the amendment. There was no objection. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I yield The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection The CHAIRMAN. The amendment of- myself such time as I may consume. to the request of the gentleman from fered by the gentleman from New York Mr. Chairman, this is an amendment New York? (Mr. QUINN) is withdrawn. in the form of a bill that passed over- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, re- The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to whelmingly in this House last year. So serving the right to object, I ask the consider amendment No. 16 printed in I bring it to the House because I think author of the amendment, the gen- part A of House Report 106–186. it is so appropriate to put it on this bill tleman from New York (Mr. QUINN), AMENDMENT NO. 16 OFFERED BY MR. DELAY at this time. with all due respect, all examples he Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I offer an Mr. Chairman, we have been talking gave were good reasons to have this amendment. about crime all day. I rise to introduce amendment. It sounded like this could The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- this amendment that seeks to cut at be a very important amendment. He ignate the amendment. the very heart of crime. Early release says that it is now to be found else- The text of the amendment is as fol- of felons due to prison conditions puts where in the McCollum amendment. Is lows: all Americans at risk, and this practice that correct? Part A amendment No. 16 offered by should stop. All the talk about fighting Mr. Chairman, under my reservation Mr. DELAY: crime and keeping children safe boils of objection, I yield to the gentleman At the end of the bill, insert the following: down to nothing if we are not willing

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00088 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13164 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 to keep prisoners behind bars where Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. CONYERS. Well, reclaiming my they belong. myself such time as I may consume. time, Mr. Chairman, let me make a Now, many States have tried to com- The gentleman from Texas (Mr. case in a different way for the gen- bat crime by assessing truth in sen- DELAY), the distinguished whip, has of- tleman from Texas. It just so happens tencing laws. However, these noble ef- fered an amendment that would dras- that this amendment would improperly forts are countered by activist judges tically and, in my view, unconsti- interfere with the work of the judicial who side with predators over victims. tutionally limit the authority of Fed- branch in our constitutional system of Activist judges are accessories to eral judges to remedy inhumane prison government because these cases are le- crime. Every day, laws are ignored, conditions where they are brought to gally and properly brought, they are misinterpreted, and overturned by their attention to the judicial process. heard by a court, they can even be ap- radicals in robes who have stolen the I would remind the gentleman that, pealed to from the court. role of legislative bodies. where this kind of a permission is And so I think that this is a dan- Article III of the U.S. Constitution granted, where relief is granted for this gerous proposal that would terminate allows the Congress to set jurisdic- condition, it is probably in consonance ongoing consent decrees in prison con- tional restraints on the courts, and with the eighth amendment to the Con- dition cases. In addition, it would pro- this amendment reasserts that right. stitution. hibit judges from issuing prisoner re- Tragically, judges have used the ex- I think that the Philadelphia case lease orders to remedy unconstitu- cuse of overcrowding to empty prisons that the gentleman from Texas (Mr. tional overcrowding. of violent offenders and drug dealers. DELAY) referred to is a State matter. I So the gentleman is saying that it These judicial magicians create prison would like just to inquire that, in his does not matter where we put people caps out of thin air and then empty jail research, since this has not come be- who have violated the law; it does not cells until they reach their arbitrary fore the committee, was it his impres- matter what circumstances that they number. sion that this practice, which he de- are put; that under no circumstances In Philadelphia, for instance, after cries, is something that occurs in the can a judge, having heard all of these some convicts complained, Judge Federal system, or is he referring to arguments on both sides from the De- Norma Shapiro created a prison cap the Philadelphia case which, it is my partment of Justice or the State Attor- that resulted in the release of 500 pris- understanding, occurred in the State ney General, they would then be pre- oners every week; 9,732 of these crimi- system? cluded from passing judgment in these nals onto the streets because of her I will repeat it. Apparently the gen- kind of cases. own arbitrary caps. These criminals tleman from Texas did not hear the I think this is an unwarranted limi- were released. They were later re- question that I was posing to him. tation on States rights. I object very arrested for new crimes, including mur- strenuously to the gentleman’s amend- b 1945 der and rape. ment, Mr. Chairman, and I include for Now, in recent years, 35 percent of all The question is whether or not the the RECORD information detailing ex- offenders arrested for violent crime conditions of which the gentleman amples of horrible prison conditions: were already on probation, parole, or complains, that is the litigation that Examples of Horrible Prison Conditions Involv- pretrial release at the time of their ar- does release prisoners in inhumane ing Women rest. Studies show that up to 76 percent prison conditions, does that turn on Women housed in the previously all-male of former inmates are rearrested with- State prison conditions or is the gen- Federal Detention Center in Pleasanton, tleman referring to Federal prison con- California were sexually harassed and in 3 years of their release. abused. They had no privacy when show- Even more criminals are released be- ditions? Because it is my under- ering, dressing or using the toilets. Prison fore their trial because activist judges standing that the Philadelphia inci- guards harassed the women and unlocked the claim that they have no room to keep dent, of which the gentleman re- women’s cell doors at night to allow male them in custody. These people should marked, was a State matter. prisoners to enter their cells and abuse not be let loose, and my amendment Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, will the them. When one of the women complained to assures that they cannot be released gentleman yield? a senior officer, her complaint was made due to the prison conditions loophole. Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- known to the other officers and prisoners tleman from Texas. and she was beaten, raped and sodomized by We will not reduce crime until we three men who gained access to her cell dur- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I am hav- stop letting criminals back onto the ing the night. She was denied medical atten- streets to continue to prey on innocent ing a hard time understanding the gen- tion for some weeks after the attack despite Americans. tleman’s question. I guess what he is the serious injuries she sustained. [Lucas v. This amendment does not prevent talking about is the specific case in White, filed 1996] any other methods to correct prison Philadelphia. It was a Federal judge, In Georgia, women, some as young as 16 conditions. It simply stops judges from and on her own set her own arbitrary years old, were forced to have sex with pris- releasing dangerous convicts to allevi- limits to overcrowding in the Federal on guards, maintenance workers, teachers, and even a prison chaplain. The sexual abuse ate overcrowding or other conditions. system and started releasing prisoners came to light when many women prisoners Justice may be blind, but it is and as a condition of overcrowding. Violent became pregnant and were pressured into does comprehend common sense. This prisoners, if I might say. having abortions. More than 200 women tes- amendment makes neighborhoods safer Mr. CONYERS. All of them were vio- tified by affidavit that they had been coerced by keeping convicts behind bars. lent? into having sex or that they know other pris- Mr. Chairman, no American is free if Mr. DELAY. Well, what is the gentle- oners who had. [Cason v. Seckinger, consent he does not feel safe in his house or on man’s definition of violence? decree, 1994] the streets. Congress must act now to Mr. CONYERS. The gentleman is In Washington, DC, the court found that correctional officers and other prison em- take back our streets. Congress must asking me for my definition of vio- ployees routinely sexually assaulted, combat judicial activism. I urge my lence? touched, and harassed the women in their colleagues to support this amendment. Mr. DELAY. It is the gentleman’s care. On one occasion, a correctional officer Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance question. sexually assaulted an inmate while she was a of my time. Mr. CONYERS. Yes, but it is your patient in the infirmary. He fondled her, The CHAIRMAN. Does any Member term. tried to force her to perform oral sex and seek to claim the time in opposition to Mr. DELAY. It is the gentleman’s then raped her. Another officer forced an in- the amendment? question. What is the gentleman’s defi- mate to perform oral sex on him while she Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise nition of violence? attempted to empty trash as part of a work The CHAIRMAN. All Members will detail. [Women Prisoners v. District of Colum- in opposition to the amendment. bia, post trial order, 1994] The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman follow regular order. The time is con- Prison staff in Louisiana engaged in sexual from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) is recog- trolled by the gentleman from Michi- abuse of women prisoners ranging from vul- nized for 5 minutes. gan (Mr. CONYERS). gar and obscene sexual comments to forcible

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00089 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13165 sexual rape. Prison staff not only partici- to be placed in protective custody was de- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection pated in the sexual misconduct but also al- nied. For the next several months he was re- to the request of the gentleman from lowed male prisoners to enter the female peated beaten by older prisoners, forced to Florida? prisons to engage in forcible intercourse perform oral sex, robbed, and beaten again. There was no objection. with women prisoners. [Hamilton v. Morial, Each time, his requests for protection were consent decree, 1995] denied by the warden. He attempted suicide The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman In California, women prisoners received al- by hanging himself in his cell after a guard from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) and the most no pregnancy-related medical care and, had ignored the warning letter he wrote. He gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) as a result, some gave birth to stillborn or was in a coma for four months until he died. each will control an additional 2 min- severely deformed babies. One woman, while [Case to be filed this year] utes. in active labor, was transported to an out- In Pennsylvania, children in a juvenile de- The Chair recognizes the gentleman tention facility were regularly beaten by side hospital seated in an upright position in from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS.) shackles; her daughter suffered severe trau- staff with chains and other objects. The fa- cility was severely overcrowded and, as re- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield ma at birth. Another prisoner, who received such time as he may consume to the almost no prenatal care, gave birth on the cently as February 1995, was at 160% of ca- pacity. [Santiago v. City of Philadelphia] floor of the jail without medical assistance gentleman from Florida (Mr. In a state-run juvenile institution outside HASTINGS). three hours after informing staff that she of Philadelphia, the children were routinely was in labor. [Yeager v. Smith and Harris v. Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Mr. Chair- beaten by facility staff, staff trafficking in man, I thank the gentleman for yield- McCarthy, consent decrees, 1989] illegal drugs was rampant, and sexual rela- EXAMPLES OF HORRIBLE PRISON CONDITIONS IN- tions between staff and confined youth were ing me this time. VOLVING MENTALLY ILL AND DISABLED PRIS- commonplace. [D.B. v. Commonwealth, con- Like my good friend and colleague ONERS sent decree, 1993] whose district and mine abut each In California, a severely mentally ill pris- In Delaware, juvenile were housed in over- other, I too am a Floridian with ex- oner was locked naked, without medication, crowded, dirty living units with serious fire traordinary concern. for two years in a ‘‘quiet room,’’ where she danger. Their food and clothing were inad- I wish to address the distinguished rubbed feces onto her face and hair, talked equate. The children were physically and whip in what I hope is a meaningful verbally abused, beaten and maced, and incoherently, and did not bathe. Another se- way, and that is when you use lan- verely mentally ill inmate was in segrega- shackled. The medical and mental health guage, Mr. DELAY, that is so strong to tion when she set herself on fire and died. A care and educational programs they received bulimic, diabetic inmate was placed in a unit were all below even minimally acceptable allow that those who get perceptions with inadequate staff to monitor her condi- standards. [John A. v. Castle, consent decree, other than those of us that are playing tion. When two officers notified a nurse that 1994] legislative gamesmanship, as rightly she was having seizures, the nurse told them Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance we should. ‘‘not to make a fuss over her.’’ She died later of my time. Federal judges are extremely respon- that afternoon. [Coleman v. Wilson, post- The CHAIRMAN. The time of the sible people in this country, and to the trial order, 1995] gentleman from Michigan has expired. man and woman activists or strict con- A prisoner with an IQ of 54, was subjected Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I yield structionists, if they are construed to both verbal and physical attack by other the balance of my time to the gen- prisoners. Correctional officers dismissed his that way, they act in a very respon- tleman from Florida (Mr. FOLEY). sible manner. For you to suggest that attempts to express his fears, allowing other Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, I strong- prisoners to slash his throat and repeatedly they are complicit with predators be- rape and assault him. The California Depart- ly support the work of the majority cause they have followed the law and ment of Corrections offered virtually no whip, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. made rulings having to do with prisons screening to identify the developmentally DELAY), and I will tell my colleagues is just not fair. disabled and makes little effort to protect why. As a Floridian, as a resident of I, as a former Federal judge, feel very them. [Clark v. California, filed 1996] that State, we released 127,486 pris- strongly about speaking up for my col- A Utah prisoner with a long history of oners early, and the judges said we had leagues who still do this job. There are mental illness, including depression, self-in- to do it. It did not matter what crime flicted wounds, suicide attempts and hearing judges in South Florida who right they committed. today have under their tutelage and voices, inflicted deep razor wounds in his ab- Now, some around here would like us curtilage jails that are unfit in these domen. When he returned from the hospital to think we need Holiday Inns and Ritz to the Utah state prison, the prison doctors times. Never mind about who is in Carltons for prisoners. I can tell my stopped all of his psychiatric medications them. colleagues what early release did, and and shackled him to a stainless board with What you need to understand, when they can talk to these families: A 78- metal restraints. He remained shackled for you say that something is done—— 12 weeks (let up on average about 4 times a year-old woman murdered in an orange week) and developed pressure sores. When he grove by a 21-year-old convicted bur- POINT OF ORDER defecated he was hosed off while remaining glar out of prison on early release; a 30- Mr. DELAY. Point of order, Mr. on the board. He was stripped to his under- year-old convicted armed burglar who Chairman. Is the gentleman not sup- shorts and frequently not allowed a blanket. killed a convenience store owner in posed to speak through the Chair? He was eventually released from the board Palm Beach; a teenager whose corpse Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Fine. and sent to the mental hospital by judge’s The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will order and over the objections of prison offi- was found in a Miami Beach bathtub last year, murdered and mutilated by a suspend. cials. [N.L.S. v. Austin, filed 1996] The gentleman is correct that all A mentally-ill prisoner at the Moscogee 30-year-old murderer and drifter out of County Jail in Georgia was observed by jail on early release; or Fort Pierce po- Members should address their com- jailers to be barking like a dog. Without con- lice officer Danny Parrish, who had to ments to the Chair. sulting a doctor, they put him into solitary die because we let a convicted mur- The gentleman from Florida (Mr. confinement where his condition quickly de- derer out on early release. We do not HASTINGS) may proceed. teriorated and he committed suicide within need any more facts or information Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Mr. Chair- hours. A recent investigation by the U.S. than that. man, I understand that I am speaking Justice Department reported that the med- through you on the basis of the other ical care at the jail, which houses 1,000 pris- I feel for these families. I do not feel for the criminal. I do not feel for the person that spoke through you. oners, consisted of one doctor working a And what I want you to understand, total of four hours per week. The report also prisoner. I do not feel for these people noted that jail staff regulatory placed pris- who have violated society’s laws. I feel Mr. Chairman, is that in Florida, since oners with serious mental health problems in for the victims. 1996, we have spent more money on isolation without consulting a psychiatrist. The CHAIRMAN. The time of the prisons and prisoners than we have on [Porter v. County of Moscogee, filed 1996] gentleman from Texas has expired. the entire university system of Flor- EXAMPLES OF HORRIBLE PRISON CONDITIONS Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Mr. Chair- ida, and that is scandalous. For us to INVOLVING JUVENILES man, I ask unanimous consent that continue down this road of just beating A 17-year-old boy in an adult prison in each side be given an additional 2 min- up on people who do their jobs respon- Texas was raped and sodomized. His request utes. sibly is irresponsible.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00090 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13166 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 What I want him to understand, Mr. eliminates the ability for courts to they think that prison conditions are Chairman, is that they do not do it out enter into consent decrees, it does not outrageous. It has nothing to do with of thin air. We have built prisons in have anything to do with prisoners fil- other remedies to correct those kinds Palm Beach County more because tax- ing claims that prison conditions are of conditions in prisons. payers could not afford it. And Federal cruel and unusual. All my amendment says is that the judges did that and I am proud of the The gentleman, Mr. Chairman, jurisdiction of the judges to release fact that they did. mischaracterizes my amendment. My violent criminals on the streets of this The CHAIRMAN. The time of the amendment is very simple. It just lim- country because of overcrowded condi- gentleman from Florida has expired. its the jurisdiction of Federal courts tions will be restricted. The gentleman from Texas (Mr. and says that they cannot turn violent Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my res- DELAY) has 2 minutes remaining. criminals out on the streets. ervation of objection. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 I might also say, Mr. Chairman, that The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection minute to the gentleman from Florida when Federal judges have no concern to the request of the gentleman from (Mr. MCCOLLUM), the distinguished for the victims of crimes and turn vio- Michigan? chairman of the subcommittee. lent criminals out, they should have There was no objection. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I their jurisdiction limited. The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate want to strongly support the proposal The CHAIRMAN. The time of the on the amendment has expired. here today of the gentleman from gentleman from Texas has expired. The question is on the amendment Texas (Mr. DELAY). We have had early Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I ask offered by the gentleman from Texas release problems for a long time. The unanimous consent to add and submit (Mr. DELAY). interest of inhumanity and inhumane the examples of horrible prison condi- The question was taken; and the conditions in any prison should be of tions involving women, examples of Chairman announced that the ayes ap- concern to all of us, but early release, horrible prison conditions involving peared to have it. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I demand releasing prisoners or not allowing mentally ill and disabled prisoners, and a recorded vote. more in prison, should not be the rem- examples of horrible prison conditions The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House edy Federal judges use to correct that involving juveniles directly after my Resolution 209, further proceedings on problem. There could be tent cities, remarks. the amendment offered by the gen- they could require the building of addi- Mr. DELAY. Reserving the right to tleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) will be tional prisons, there are a lot of other object. postponed. possible remedies, but public safety is The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman It is now in order to consider amend- the question. from Texas (Mr. DELAY) reserves the ment No. 17 printed in part A of House Letting really terrible criminals right to object. Report 106–186. loose, as has happened in the State of Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I do not Florida, violent criminals, in the name intend to object, because I think it is AMENDMENT NO. 17 OFFERED BY MR. GALLEGLY of somehow trying to force the legisla- very important to submit this kind of Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Chairman, I ture of a State to do something is information, but for the gentleman, offer an amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- wrong, and that is a very, very bad sit- Mr. Chairman, to submit such informa- ignate the amendment. uation. The remedy the gentleman tion . . . to think that my amendment The text of the amendment is as fol- from Texas has proposed is a reason- has anything to do with bad prison con- lows: able step in the right direction. ditions, it has nothing to do with bad Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, will the prison conditions. It does not limit Part A amendment No. 17 offered by gentleman yield? anybody’s right to claim there is bad Mr. GALLEGLY: Add at the end the following: Mr. MCCOLLUM. I yield to the gen- prison conditions. ll—JUVENILE GANGS tleman from Florida. Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I demand TITLE Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, I just SEC. ll1. SOLICITATION OR RECRUITMENT OF the gentleman’s words be taken down. PERSONS IN CRIMINAL STREET wanted to underscore that there was no The gentleman said the gentleman was GANG ACTIVITY. distinction in Florida whether they trying to mislead this body. (a) PROHIBITED ACTS.—Chapter 26 of title were violent or nonviolent offenders. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will 18, United States Code, is amended by adding Everyone was treated equally. suspend. at the end the following: Mr. MCCOLLUM. Reclaiming my Mr. OBEY. I think he owes a retrac- ‘‘§ 522. Recruitment of persons to participate time, that is correct, Mr. Chairman. tion to the gentleman. in criminal street gang activity Everybody got out. Even violent of- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I ask ‘‘(a) PROHIBITED ACT.—It shall be unlawful fenders got out. It was a terrible situa- unanimous consent to retract the word for any person, to use any facility in, or tion. And, unfortunately, the courts ‘‘misleading.’’ travel in, interstate or foreign commerce, or have continued to be a problem in this The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection cause another to do so, to recruit, solicit, in- duce, command, or cause another person to regard, and the gentleman from Texas to the request of the gentleman from be or remain as a member of a criminal (Mr. DELAY) is trying to do something Texas? street gang, or conspire to do so, with the in- about that problem. There was no objection. tent that the person being recruited, solic- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I yield The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ited, induced, commanded or caused to be or myself the balance of my time. from Texas (Mr. DELAY) reserves the remain a member of such gang participate in It is easy to claim we know what is right to object to the request of the an offense described in section 521(c). constitutional or not. I just referred to gentleman from Michigan. ‘‘(b) PENALTIES.—Any person who violates the Constitution and Article III. It is The gentleman from Texas (Mr. subsection (a) shall— ‘‘(1) if the person recruited, solicited, in- very specific. This Congress, when we DELAY) is recognized under his reserva- duced, commanded, or caused— create courts, can set their jurisdic- tion. ‘‘(A) is a minor, be imprisoned not less tion. And when the courts abuse that Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I appre- than 4 years and not more than 10 years, jurisdiction and overreach by releasing ciate it, and under that reservation I fined in accordance with this title, or both; violent criminals, or any criminals, out apologize for claiming that the gen- or on the streets because of overcrowding tleman is misleading the House. What I ‘‘(B) is not a minor, be imprisoned not less conditions, then we have every right to meant to say was the gentleman is con- than 1 year and not more than 10 years, fined limit the jurisdiction of these Federal fusing the issue on my amendment by in accordance with this title, or both; and ‘‘(2) be liable for any costs incurred by the courts. offering this information. My amend- Federal Government or by any State or local I might also say to the gentleman ment has nothing, has nothing to do government for housing, maintaining, and from Michigan, in answer to his com- with cruel and unusual punishment or treating the minor until the minor attains ments, this amendment in no way the rights of people to bring actions if the age of 18 years.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00091 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13167 ‘‘(c) DEFINITIONS.—In this section: new areas. Here are just a few exam- tory minimum just goes into another ‘‘(1) CRIMINAL STREET GANG.—The term ples: area. But we do not know what we are ‘criminal street gang’ has the meaning given The Gangster Disciples, a Chicago- doing. It would have been extremely the term in section 521. based gang, has 30,000 members, oper- helpful if we could have had a hearing ‘‘(2) MINOR.—The term ‘minor’ means a ates in 35 States, traffics in narcotics person who is younger than 18 years of age.’’. to determine what the implications of (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of and weapons, and has an estimated in- this amendment might be, one way or sections at the beginning of chapter 26 of come of $300,000 per day. the other. We did not have that oppor- title 18, United States Code, is amended by The 18th Street Gang, based in Los tunity. adding at the end the following new item: Angeles, now deals directly with the We are trading sound bites, what ‘‘522. Recruitment of persons to participate Mexican and Colombian drug cartels sounds good, what makes common in criminal street gang activ- and has expanded its operation to Or- sense or may not make common sense. ity.’’. egon, Utah, El Salvador, Honduras, and We just do not know. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Mexico. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- Resolution 209, the gentleman from And finally, the Bloods and Crips tleman from California (Mr. California (Mr. GALLEGLY) and a Mem- have, according to the FBI and local GALLEGLY). ber opposed each will control 5 min- law enforcement agencies, spread their Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Chairman, I ap- utes. tentacles from California to more than preciate the gentleman yielding. The Chair recognizes the gentleman 119 cities in the West and Midwest. This is a problem that we have been contacted by law enforcement agen- from California (Mr. GALLEGLY). One of the ways in which these and Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Chairman, my other gangs expand is by recruiting cies, prosecutors from all across this amendment targets one of the most children into the criminal enterprise country. The broad bipartisan support central causes of violence among young and indoctrinating them into a life of that has been indicated on the Senate persons, the proliferation of violent crime. In addition, by having children side that this bill, of course, has been street gangs. My amendment will give and teenagers actually do the gang’s working its way through the system law enforcement an important tool to dirty work, the gang’s leaders, many of for some time with the leadership of fight this growing problem by attack- whom are adults, are able to evade con- Senator DIANE FEINSTEIN of California ing the lifeblood of gangs, the recruit- viction. and, of course, also with the chairman ment of young, impressionable mem- This amendment focuses on this of the Senate Judiciary Committee, bers. problem by giving the Federal law en- Mr. HATCH, at the appeal of law en- The amendment would make it a forcement officials the ability to pros- forcement officers and prosecutors Federal crime to use interstate or for- ecute gang leaders for the recruitment across this Nation. Mr. SCOTT. Reclaiming my time, Mr. eign commerce to recruit a person to of new members with the intent of hav- Chairman, it would have been nice to join a criminal street gang for the pur- ing them commit gang crimes. have had this explained to the com- pose of having that person commit a I urge the Members to support this mittee where we might have been able serious felony. It would impose a pris- bipartisan common-sense crime fight- to consider it in a deliberative fashion. on sentence of 4 to 10 years for the re- ing provision. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance We have been denied that. cruitment of a minor into a criminal of my time. And so we are just guessing. It might street gang, and for the recruitment of The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman be a good idea. It might not. an adult to commit a serious crime, from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) seek time in Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance the amendment imposes a sentence of 1 opposition to the amendment? of my time. to 10 years. Mr. SCOTT. Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Chairman, I This provision was included in S. 254, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from the companion Senate bill dealing with from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) is recognized El Paso, Texas (Mr. REYES), the former juvenile crime by the chairman of the for 5 minutes. chief of the Border Patrol. Senate Committee on the Judiciary Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. REYES. Mr. Chairman, I thank ORRIN HATCH. myself such time as I may consume. the gentleman for yielding. b 2000 Mr. Chairman, again, we have the use Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to rise in of new mandatory minimums with the support of the Gallegly amendment to The language was drafted jointly crime that we have not been able to re- the juvenile justice bill. with Senator FEINSTEIN and Senator view in committee. I would ask the Today, as we consider this bill, it HATCH. Senator FEINSTEIN first in- gentleman from California if he could would be wrong for us not to address cluded this provision in the Federal respond to let us know how the street the issue of gangs and the increasing Gang Violence Act of 1996 after lengthy gang statute has been used so far, numbers of juveniles that are being re- discussions with California law en- whether it has been effective in reduc- cruited into their ranks. forcement officials. ing crime? As someone who spent 261⁄2 years in Mr. Chairman, this amendment is Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Chairman, Federal law enforcement, I can tell my necessary because gangs are no longer would the gentleman please repeat his colleagues that I have personally ob- just a local problem involving small question? I am sorry, I did not hear it. served an increasing violence in the groups of teenagers. Instead, gang or- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, whether number of street gangs and it con- ganizations have become national and or not the street gang statute has been tinues to be a growing problem all in some cases international in scope. effective in reducing crime? across this country. A nationwide survey conducted last Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- These gangs have evolved from local year by the Department of Justice tleman from California (Mr. and regional criminal elements into found that there was an estimated GALLEGLY). large-scale and well-organized criminal 25,000 gangs with 652,000 gang members Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Chairman, no. enterprises. They are involved in a operating in the United States. Many Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- range of serious crimes including nar- are sophisticated crime syndicates that ing my time, that is the problem. The cotic trafficking, open violence, intimi- regularly cross State lines to recruit street gang statute is replete with con- dation and extortion. Their reach new members and traffic drugs, weap- stitutional problems and freedom of as- stretches across the country, and they ons, and illegal aliens. They also steal, sociation proof problems and really ir- have members in nearly every major murder, and intimidate State and Fed- relevant, because the normal con- metropolitan area, creating a nation- eral witnesses. spiracy theories will give persons more wide network of violence and well-or- Despite the downturn in violent time than they would ordinarily get. ganized crime. crime nationally, gangs continue to ex- To compound that with a 4-year man- The evolution and growth of these pand their criminal operations into datory minimum or a 1-year manda- gangs is a result of heavy recruitment

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00092 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13168 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 that takes place by gangs to attract committee and also consider the Sen- States Code, will reflect the changes in the our Nation’s youth. Gangs have found tencing Commission to take the poli- total number of permanent district judge- that the juveniles are impressionable tics out of crime. ships authorized as a result of subsection (a) and easily led into a life of crime. They Mr. DAVIS of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, of this section— I stand to voice my support of the (1) the item relating to Arizona in such have also learned that they can direct table is amended to read as follows: Gallegly Amendment to H.R. 1501, The these recruits to commit and take the ‘‘Arizona ...... 11’’; fall for crimes while the gang leaders Child Safety & Protection Act. This (2) the item relating to Florida in such escape responsibility and prosecution. Amendment, specifically, targets the table is amended to read as follows: With their emphasis on recruitment of gang recruitment of young persons ‘‘Florida: juveniles, they are a significant breed- that occurs every day across this great Northern ...... 4 ing ground for the rise in crime all country. I see the need for such action Middle ...... 15 across this country. every day in the Seventh Congressional Southern ...... 16’’; I am, therefore, pleased to join the District of Illinois. I walk down Madi- and gentleman from California (Mr. son street and across Western street, (3) the item relating to Nevada in such table is amended to read as follows: GALLEGLY) and support his amend- and I see how gangs rob America’s ment. It provides our Federal law en- youth of their future by inducing them, ‘‘Nevada ...... 6’’. (d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.— forcement officials an important tool threatening them, and seducing them There are authorized to be appropriated such to prosecute these gang leaders who re- into a life of crime. Every day, I see sums as may be necessary to carry out the cruit juveniles to a life of crime. the terrible price these children even- provisions of this section, including such We simply cannot stand here today tually pay. We lock them up and throw sums as may be necessary to provide appro- and credibly say that we are addressing away the key or they end up dead, it is priate space and facilities for the judicial po- juvenile crime unless we support this time that Congress did something to sitions created by this section. amendment. This amendment provides stem gang recruitment. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House an effective tool in our law enforce- By making it a federal crime to trav- Resolution 209, the gentleman from ment arsenal and allows our agencies el in, or use the facilities of interstate Florida (Mr. GOSS) and a Member op- to combat these gangs. I am convinced or foreign commerce to recruit some- posed each will control 5 minutes. that this is a proper tool at the proper one to be a member of a criminal street The Chair recognizes the gentleman time for this bill. gang we are making a strong stand from Florida (Mr. GOSS). Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, how against gang violence. As a nation we Mr. GOSS. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- much time do we have remaining? need to take this strong action to re- self such time as I may consume. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman duce the numbers of youth entering Mr. Chairman, this amendment par- from Virginia has 21⁄2 minutes remain- street gangs. This worthy amendment allels an amendment offered by the ing. represents a large step forward in com- gentleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOL- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield bating gangs and crime. I stand with LUM) and the efforts of the gentleman myself the balance of the time. my worthy colleague from California from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM), the gen- Mr. Chairman, one of the problems in voicing support for this needed tleman from Florida (Mr. CANADY) and with the mandatory minimums is the amendment and congratulate him on the gentleman from Nevada (Mr. GIB- gentleman from California mentioned its passage. BONS). common sense. It takes all common Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- It is short. It is to the point. It pro- sense out of sentencing. ance of my time. vides for four new district judges for Last year we passed legislation that The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate the middle district of Florida, three for provided for mandatory sentence for on this amendment has expired. Arizona, and two for Nevada. This showing someone a firearm in the com- The question is on the amendment exact language is already contained in mission of a drug deal would get them offered by the gentleman from Cali- the Senate juvenile justice bill and more time than just shooting the per- fornia (Mr. GALLEGLY). similar legislation overwhelmingly son, in just cold-blooded shooting. The amendment was agreed to. passed this House last year. Those kind of situations where we just The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to In these communities, the need for come up with the crime of the day and consider Amendment No. 18 printed in judges has hit the emergency level. In whatever crime we come up with; we part A of House Report 106–186. the middle district of Florida, for ex- have to be serious about crime, and we AMENDMENT NO. 18 OFFERED BY MR. GOSS ample, we have experienced a 62-per- take it out of perspective is really the Mr. GOSS. Mr. Chairman, I offer an cent caseload increase since 1990, the problem with the mandatory minimum amendment. last time we added a new judgeship. In sentences. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- fact, the active caseloads for judge- That is why we have a Sentencing ignate the amendment. ships exceeds the national average by Commission who can look at the crime The text of the amendment is as fol- as much as 100 percent. These statistics and put it in perspective, compare it to lows: are important, but they do not begin to similarly serious crimes, and give an Part A amendment No. 18 offered by Mr. describe the human impact. GOSS: appropriate sentence rather than just At the end of the bill, add the following In Ft. Myers, my hometown, a brand the crime of the day. (and make such technical and conforming new Federal courthouse has an empty I would have hoped that we could changes as may be appropriate): judge’s chambers, absolutely empty. have had this in committee. We would SEC. 3. DISTRICT JUDGES FOR DISTRICTS IN THE While there are more than 800 active have had time to consider it, assess a STATES OF ARIZONA, FLORIDA, AND cases pending, there is no Article III reasonable sentence in relationship to NEVADA. judge to hear them. the crime, considering other similar (a) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be While we may disagree on the merits cited as the ‘‘Emergency Federal Judgeship crimes. But we do not have that oppor- Act of 1999’’. of further gun restrictions or increased tunity. We are on the floor. We have (b) IN GENERAL.—The President shall ap- penalties for juveniles, one thing is ab- good vote-getting sounds bites. We point, by and with the advice and consent of solutely certain, that all of us suffer have somebody say that we have got to the Senate— when justice cannot be delivered. Even be serious about crime and this is seri- (1) 3 additional district judges for the dis- the best laws are neutered if the judi- ous and, therefore, a 4-year mandatory trict of Arizona; cial branch fails to adjudicate in a minimum is what we have got to go (2) 4 additional district judges for the mid- timely fashion. dle district of Florida; and Mr. Chairman, I understand that along with. (3) 2 additional district judges for the dis- That is not the way we ought to leg- trict of Nevada. there are as much areas of this country islate. And I would hope that we would (c) TABLES.—In order that the table con- with compelling arguments for more in the future consider these bills in tained in section 133 of title 28, United judges. These three States, however,

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00093 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13169 are among the top six court districts an unacceptable backlog of cases. The crisis in our judicial system will only having the highest weighted caseloads. administration of justice is not going get worse if we do not address it today. In fact, the independent judicial con- forward as it should in a timely fash- Because of the dynamic commercial de- ference recommended a total of 19 new ion. This is something that has to be velopment in southern Nevada we have judgeships for these States. addressed, and I believe it is important some of the most complex and difficult This amendment contains nine paral- for the House to step forward and meet cases in the Nation. Southern Nevada leling the Senate language. This is a its responsibility to make the judicial is truly a microcosm of our Nation’s responsible, necessary step to restore personnel available to deal with the judicial system. Whatever can be found swift and certain justice in some of the cases that are there. in the United States will be found in highest growing areas in the land. It is This is an urgent matter. And if we my district tenfold. a bipartisan amendment in both are serious about the timely adminis- As an attorney I can tell my col- Houses. I urge its adoption. tration of justice in the middle district leagues that our judges handle complex Mr. Chairman, I yield to the distin- of Florida and in these other areas that antitrust cases, intricate security liti- guished gentleman from Florida (Mr. are affected by this amendment, we gation and a wide array of employment MCCOLLUM). will adopt this amendment unani- discrimination cases and civil rights Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I mously and get on with the business of cases. They also hear an unusually thank the gentleman for yielding. seeing that justice is administered. high number of fraud and criminal Mr. Chairman, I just want to point Mr. GOSS. Mr. Chairman, I reserve cases. We need these additional judge- out the middle district of Florida en- the balance of my time. ships. compasses 5 of the 10 fastest growing Ms. BERKLEY. Mr. Chairman, I am Mr. Chairman, this is an emergency cities in the United States. It is a 400- not opposed to this amendment, but I amendment to handle an emergency mile district from Jacksonville to ask unanimous consent to be recog- situation. If Members review the facts, Naples. And we have had no new Fed- nized to control debate time. they will see that there are solid rea- eral judges since 1990 and during that The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection sons why Florida, Arizona and Nevada time have had a 60-percent increase in to the request of the gentlewoman are distinguished from the other juris- total filings and cases per judge, which from New York? dictions. I urge my colleagues on both is extraordinary. There was no objection. sides of the aisle to provide this relief. So I commend the gentleman for let- Ms. BERKLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield Let us pass the Goss amendment and ting me join with him in this amend- myself such time as I may consume. ensure that our judicial courts can con- ment and urge its adoption. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman tinue operating with the goal of pro- tecting all of our citizens. Mr. GOSS. Mr. Chairman, I am happy from Florida (Mr. GOSS) for offering Mr. GOSS. Mr. Chairman, we have no to yield to the distinguished gentleman this amendment. further speakers. I yield back the bal- from Nevada (Mr. GIBBONS). Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong Mr. GIBBONS. Mr. Chairman, I ance of my time. support of the Goss amendment to pro- The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate thank my friend and colleagues for vide additional judgeships for Florida, expired. yielding and applaud him on his leader- Arizona, and Nevada, clearly the three The question is on the amendment ship on this issue. neediest States in the country. offered by the gentleman from Florida Mr. Chairman, of course, this issue is As the representative of southern Ne- (Mr. Goss). one of fundamental fairness. The basic vada, I stand before you today to dem- The amendment was agreed to. tenet of all our judicial system is the onstrate how great our need is for more The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to right to a speedy trial. The addition of judges. Nevada is ranked second out of consider Amendment No. 19 printed in these Federal judges will allow not 94 in the Nation for caseload per judge Part A of House Report 106–186. only Florida, Arizona, and Nevada, who and first in the Ninth Circuit. Nevada AMENDMENT NO. 19 OFFERED BY MR. TRAFICANT are rapidly growing; in fact Nevada has is third in the Nation for growth of Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, I one of the highest growth-rate cities in civil cases per judge and eighth for fel- offer an amendment. the Nation, to be able to compete with ony cases. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- that and complete that speedy-trial re- In 1998 a total of 863 cases were filed ignate the amendment. quirement. in Nevada, almost double the national The text of the amendment is as fol- The Federal average caseload is average of 467 cases. Nevada is fifth in lows: about 400 cases per judge. In Nevada, the country for pending cases. If a con- Part A amendment No. 19 offered by the caseload per active judge is about stituent in my district files a lawsuit Mr. Traficant: 863. These two new Federal judges for today, that case will not be heard until Page 4, line 23, strike ‘‘To’’ and insert the Nevada will allow for Nevada to com- following ‘‘Except as provided in section January of the year 2002. Other citizens 1803(f), to’’. pete with that fundamental fairness across the United States have only to and justice. Page 13, after line 19, insert the fol- wait 9 months for justice. lowing: I urge the passage of this amend- The reason for this delay in Nevada ment. ‘‘(f) SPECIAL RULES.— is that we do not have enough judges ‘‘(1) In general.—The funds available under Mr. GOSS. Mr. Chairman, I have to for this extraordinary caseload. And this part for a State shall be reduced by 25 point out that the gentleman from justice delayed is justice denied. percent and redistributed under paragraph Florida (Mr. CANADY) and the gen- The Goss amendment would give (2) unless the State has in effect throughout tleman from Florida (MR. MCCOLLUM) much needed relief to our overworked the State a law which suspends the driver’s have taken the lead efforts in this mat- system. The two judgeships provided license of a juvenile until 21 years of age if ter and we are grateful. for Nevada would be the first additions such juvenile illegally possess a firearm or uses a firearm in the commission of a crime Mr. Chairman, I yield to the distin- to our judicial circuits since 1984. guished gentleman from Florida (Mr. or an act of juvenile delinquency. While Nevada has not seen an increase ‘‘(2) REDISTRIBUTION.—Any funds available CANADY). in the number of judges in its Federal for redistribution shall be redistributed to Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- courts in 15 years, Nevada’s population participating States that have in effect a law man, I thank the gentleman for yield- has almost tripled. referred to in paragraph (1). ing; and I want to thank him for the ‘‘(3) COMPLIANCE.—The Attorney General leadership that he has demonstrated, b 2015 shall issue regulations to ensure compliance along with the gentleman from Florida It is imperative that our judicial sys- with the requirements of paragraph (1).’’. (Mr. MCCOLLUM) and the others who tem is expanded to handle this explo- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House have been involved in this effort. sive growth. With 5000 new residents Resolution 209, the gentleman from We are facing a serious problem in pouring into southern Nevada every Ohio (Mr. TRAFICANT) and a Member the middle district of Florida. There is single month with no end in sight, this opposed each will control 5 minutes.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00094 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13170 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 The Chair recognizes the gentleman you, but I don’t want to hear about it Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, I from Ohio (Mr. TRAFICANT). with that gun,’’ and for the first time yield myself such time as I may con- MODIFICATION OFFERED BY MR. TRAFICANT TO we begin to modify some behavior. sume. AMENDMENT NO. 19 OFFERED BY MR. TRAFICANT I think it is very important for Con- Mr. Chairman, I appreciate it. In Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, I gress to look at prevention elements, closing I would just like to add the fol- ask unanimous consent that the pend- to try and reduce the potential of lowing: ing amendment be modified by the crime. Not every kid in jail for a crime We should be about trying to prevent modification I have submitted to the is as bad as he is purported to be, for crime. This message does that. As a desk. sure, and there is some kids and some former sheriff, I know that most of the The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will re- parents we have to tell it is their kids deal, most of the debate we have about port the modification. that other kids should stay away from crime, is really in the State province, The Clerk read as follows: for sure. and I think this is one way to deal with Modification to Amendment No. 19 I think it is a very good amendment, the volumes of cases that are affected offered by Mr. TRAFICANT: In the text I think mandatory minimums and all by State law. of the matter proposed to be inserted, of the heavy penalties we put are not Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance strike ‘‘25 percent’’ and insert in lieu going to make much of a difference, of my time. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman thereof ‘‘10 percent’’. and I am not going to say this is going from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) seek to con- to affect every kid and have a great re- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection trol the time in opposition? to the request of the gentleman from duction in crime, but I think it will be- Mr. SCOTT. I do, Mr. Chairman. Ohio that the amendment be modified? come the universal applied law through The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog- Mr. CONYERS. Reserving the right the States where most of the crime is nizes the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. to object, Mr. Chairman, could I in- committed; the word will get out and SCOTT) for 5 minutes. quire of the author of the amendment say, ‘‘Look, man, I don’t want to lose Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield what is the purpose or what is this re- my driving privileges,’’ and I think it myself such time as I may consume. duction about? will have some beneficial effect, Mr. Chairman, this seems like a rea- Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, will enough of a beneficial effect that I sonable bill to add loss of driver’s li- the gentleman yield? think it would be good for the country. censes to the myriad of different op- Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, will tions available to a judge. However, we tleman from Ohio. the gentleman yield? have had no hearing on this provision, Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, rel- Mr. TRAFICANT. I yield to the dis- and so we do not know what it might atively we do not want to really penal- tinguished gentleman from Florida. do. ize States and make it overly burden- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I I would also add that we are telling some to enact this legislation, but we want to rise to support the amendment the States to change their laws to ac- want to, in fact, try and encourage the with the gentleman from Ohio. Having commodate this particular provision. States to move towards this prevention had the accommodation that he grant- It is another mandatory sentence, and modality that I am offering. ed a moment ago in the modification, I one of the things we heard from judges Mr. CONYERS. So, it is from 25 per- think the gentleman has been gracious and advocates and researchers was that cent to 10 percent of what? about that. In principle I have agreed the punishment should be individual- Mr. TRAFICANT. Of the justice with him all along, that the idea of a ized to the particular juvenile. This funds be made available to the State child, a youngster, losing their driving does not individualize the punishment. under the act. privileges is an extraordinary incen- It gives a one size fits all. There may Mr. CONYERS. I thank the gen- tive. That is probably the best discipli- be some young people for whom the tleman from Ohio. nary tool we have got for a teenager, loss of license may not be appropriate, Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my res- and I think that it does work. a young person who may need the li- ervation of objection. cense to continue employment, for ex- The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, The only question I ever had was the attachment as a condition that perhaps ample. There may be other punish- the amendment is modified. ments that may be more appropriate There was no objection. in some larger States in the Nation, cost the money in this bill if their leg- for that individual, and for that reason, Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. Chairman, I think this needs some yield myself such time as I may con- islatures did not go along, which they might well not, and the money, being more work. It should be considered by sume. committee and should be opposed at As my colleagues know, Mr. Chair- money in this base bill that goes to im- provement of the juvenile justice sys- this time. man, I am a former sheriff, and I think Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, I this bill is lacking in one major area, tems and the States for more juvenile judges, probation officers and so forth, yield myself the balance of my time. and that is prevention. The only ac- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman that is extraordinarily important. ceptable crime to me was the crime from Ohio is recognized for the 30 sec- The only restriction in the bill other that was never committed, an old onds remaining. axiom, an ounce of prevention is worth than this one that exists is the one on Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, it a full pound of cure. The Traficant requiring States to demonstrate grad- would be up to the States, and, as they amendment simply says there be a 10 uated sanctions punishing the first have done in some DUI cases with juve- percent reduction in funds under this time offender, which is not happening niles, they could grant exceptions for bill for any State that does not enact right now, and we are worried about young people who have to use their car the following law: putting consequences, and, as the gen- for work. Any juvenile that commits an offense tleman knows, and accountability into The bottom line, that is up to the involved with a gun or firearm and con- the law now making sure that from the States. It would simply reduce the victed, in addition to any other pen- very first early delinquent act a child funds if they did not enact the law that alties that are placed before under the receives some kind of sanction. would cause them to lose and revoke State, they would also have their driv- So I understand the gentleman has their driving privileges. ing privileges revoked to age 21. been sympathetic to my concerns, I am Mr. Chairman, I urge the Congress It is a very simple little preventive sympathetic to his, and with the reduc- for an aye vote. measure. Kids love to drive cars, and tion of the amount of loss of money for The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate many of them make mistakes they failing to do this to a State down to 10 on this amendment has expired. wish they had back 30 seconds of their percent as the condition, I support the The question is on the amendment, life, and I could see a new attitude and gentleman’s amendment, and I appre- as modified, offered by the gentleman mentality in saying, ‘‘Look, Bob, I dig ciate his accommodation. from Ohio (Mr. TRAFICANT).

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00095 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13171 The amendment, as modified, was Member opposed each will control 5 cially in light of the fact that it has agreed to. minutes. proven so successful. Trafficking of The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to The Chair recognizes the gentleman guns drives the worst kind of violent consider amendment No. 20 printed in from Massachusetts (Mr. MEEHAN). crime. We can address this problem part A of House Report 106–186. Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield with the youth gun interdiction initia- AMENDMENT NO. 20 OFFERED BY MR. MEEHAN myself such time as I may consume. tive that has already started to do just Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I offer Mr. Chairman, this amendment ex- that. an amendment. pands the youth crime gun interdiction Mr. Chairman, keeping guns out of The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- initiative to 75 cities and county law the hands of children is not a new de- ignate the amendment. enforcement agencies throughout the bate. Over 30 years ago Robert Kennedy The text of the amendment is as fol- country. The ATF’s youth crime gun spoke about the dangers of kids and lows: interdiction initiative is a cutting edge guns in words that have proven unfor- strategy to disrupt the illegal supply of Part A amendment No. 20 offered by Mr. tunately timeless. We have a responsi- guns to juveniles. MEEHAN: bility to the victims of crime and vio- At the end of the bill, insert the following: Following the example of the fan- lence, Robert Kennedy said. It is a re- tastic successes of the Boston gun SEC. ll. YOUTH CRIME GUN INTERDICTION INI- sponsibility to think not only of our TIATIVE (YCGII). project led by Professor David Ken- own convenience but of the tragedy of (a) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary of the nedy, local law enforcement officials in sudden death. It is a responsibility to Treasury shall expand— 27 cities are employing ATF’s expertise put away childish things to make the (1) to 75 the number of city and county law and resources to trace firearms used in possession and use of firearms a matter enforcement agencies that through the crimes. This number of participating undertaken only by serious people who Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Initiative (re- cities is currently slated to grow to 37 will use them with the restraint and ferred to in this section as YCGII) submit cities and counties by the end of Fiscal identifying information relating to all fire- maturity that their dangerous nature Year 2000. deserves and demands. arms recovered during law enforcement in- Now the Boston gun project, also vestigations, including from individuals known as operation cease-fire, is aimed under 25, to the Secretary of the Treasury to b 2030 identify the types and origins of such fire- at preventing youth homicide. It com- arms; and bines Federal efforts with those State Let us end kids’ access to guns once (2) the resources devoted to law enforce- and local law enforcement authorities and for all. ment investigations of illegal youth posses- to crack down on the illegal guns sup- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance sors and users and of illegal firearms traf- plied, those officials who identify of my time. fickers identified through YCGII, including sources and patterns of illegal firearm The CHAIRMAN. Does any Member through the hiring of additional agents, in- trafficking and develop law enforce- spectors, intelligence analysts, and support seek to control time in opposition to personnel. ment strategies to reduce the flow of the gentleman’s amendment? (b) SELECTION OF PARTICIPANTS.—The Sec- weapons to the youngest members of Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield retary of the Treasury, in consultation with our society. Once we know how the such time as he may consume to the Federal, State, and local law enforcement of- kids are getting the guns, and from gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- ficials, shall select cities and counties for whom they are getting the guns, and YERS). participation in the program under this sec- where those guns are coming from, we tion. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I want will be far more likely to be able to to suggest that what the gentleman (c) ESTABLISHMENT OF SYSTEM.—The Sec- prevent the kids from getting guns in retary of the Treasury shall establish a sys- from Massachusetts, a member of the tem through which State and local law en- the first place. Committee on the Judiciary is doing, is For example, through gun tracing forcement agencies, through online com- extremely important, because rather the Boston Police Department discov- puter technology, can promptly provide fire- than trying to determine penalties and ered that the guns being used by gang arms-related information to the Secretary of negative means of controlling dan- the Treasury and access information derived members in one particular neighbor- gerous weapons, we are going to the through YCGII as soon as such capability is hood were purchased by one individual root of the problem. Many of these available. Not later than 6 months after the in Mississippi and then transported to young people get guns from sources date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary Boston. Now after that individual was shall submit to the Chairman and ranking that are not entirely clear to us, and arrested, shootings in that neighbor- Member of the Committees on Appropria- this gun control initiative is going to hood declined dramatically. The con- tions of the House of Representatives and surely be helpful. I want to congratu- nection between guns and juvenile the Senate, a report explaining the capacity late the gentleman on this, because the crime is well known. Virtually all of to provide such online access and the future Senate has already moved and they are technical and, if necessary, legal changes re- the striking rise and the homicide rate waiting for us. quired to make such capability available, in- between 1987 and 1994 was associated cluding cost estimates. with guns. So I am happy to add the support of (d) REPORT.—Not later than 1 year after Now the Senate included an expan- the Democrats on the committee for the date of enactment of this section, and sion of the youth gun control interdic- this important measure. annually thereafter, the Secretary of the tion initiative in their version of the Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield Treasury shall submit to the Chairman and myself such time as I may consume, ranking Member of the Committees on Ap- juvenile justifies legislation. In fact, propriations of the House of Representatives the other body passed this legislation and I thank the ranking member, and I and the Senate a report regarding the types and expands the programs to 250 cities would say that there are success sto- and sources of firearms recovered from indi- or counties by October 1, the year 2003. ries in cities across the country; in viduals, including those under the age of 25; As time goes on and this program con- Boston, I mentioned, and in my home- regional, State, and national firearms traf- tinues to demonstrate success, we can town of Lowell, Massachusetts where ficking trends; and the number of investiga- add cities to the list. My amendment is the police department is initiating tions and arrests resulting from YCGII. not gun control legislation, but rather similar goals and objectives. I thank (e) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.— the gentleman for his support. There are authorized to be appropriated to it is a proven effective crime control. the Department of the Treasury to carry out It simply keeps illegal guns out of the Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- this section $50,000,000 for fiscal year 2000 and hands of those kids who use them to ance of my time. such sums as may be necessary for fiscal commit crimes and seeks out and pun- The CHAIRMAN. The question is on years 2001 through 2004. ishes those who provide guns to kids. the amendment offered by the gen- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House I was disappointed that this program tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. MEE- Resolution 209, the gentleman from was not included in the gentleman HAN). Massachusetts (Mr. MEEHAN) and a from Illinois’ juvenile justice bill, espe- The amendment was agreed to.

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SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE Gordon Matsui Sanders Meeks (NY) Payne Scott OF THE WHOLE Goss McCarthy (MO) Sandlin Mink Pelosi Shadegg Graham McCarthy (NY) Sawyer Owens Rush Waters The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Granger McCollum Saxton Paul Sanford Watt (NC) resolution 209, proceedings will now re- Green (TX) McCrery Scarborough NOT VOTING—6 sume on those amendments on which Green (WI) McGovern Schaffer further proceedings were postponed in Greenwood McHugh Schakowsky Brown (CA) Houghton Thomas Gutierrez McInnis Sensenbrenner Ewing Kasich Weiner the following order: Gutknecht McIntosh Serrano Amendment No. 10 offered by the Hall (OH) McIntyre Sessions b 2055 gentleman from California (Mr. Hall (TX) McKeon Shaw Hansen McKinney Mr. HILLIARD, Mr. PAUL, Mrs. CUNNINGHAM); Shays Hastings (WA) McNulty Sherman CLAYTON, and Mr. CONYERS changed Amendment No. 16 offered by the Hayes Meehan Sherwood their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY). Hayworth Menendez Shimkus Mr. DELAHUNT changed his vote The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes Hefley Metcalf Shows Herger Mica from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ the time for any electronic vote after Shuster Hill (IN) Millender- Simpson So the amendment was agreed to. the first vote in this series. Hill (MT) McDonald Sisisky The result of the vote was announced Hilleary Miller (FL) AMENDMENT NO. 10 OFFERED BY MR. Skeen Hinchey Miller, Gary as above recorded. CUNNINGHAM Skelton Hinojosa Miller, George Slaughter Stated For: The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Hobson Minge Smith (MI) Mr. EWING. Mr. Chairman, on rollcall No. ness is a demand for a recorded vote on Hoeffel Moakley Smith (NJ) 214, I was unavoidably delayed. Had I been Hoekstra Mollohan Smith (TX) the amendment offered by the gen- Holden Moore present, I would have voted ‘‘yes.’’ tleman from California (Mr. Smith (WA) Holt Moran (KS) Snyder ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN PRO Hooley Moran (VA) CUNNINGHAM) on which further pro- Souder TEMPORE Horn Morella ceedings were postponed and on which Spence Hostettler Murtha The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Spratt the ayes prevailed by voice vote. Hoyer Myrick BARRETT of Nebraska). Pursuant to Stabenow The Clerk will redesignate the Hulshof Nadler Stark House Resolution 209, the Chair an- amendment. Hunter Napolitano nounces that he will reduce to a min- Hutchinson Neal Stearns The Clerk redesignated the amend- Hyde Nethercutt Stenholm imum of 5 minutes the period of time ment. Inslee Ney Strickland within which a vote by electronic de- Stump RECORDED VOTE Isakson Northup vice will be taken on the additional Istook Norwood Stupak The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Jackson-Lee Nussle Sununu amendment on which the Chair has been demanded. (TX) Oberstar Sweeney postponed further proceedings. Talent A recorded vote was ordered. Jefferson Obey AMENDMENT NO. 16 OFFERED BY MR. DELAY Jenkins Olver Tancredo The vote was taken by electronic de- John Ortiz Tanner The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The vice, and there were—ayes 401, noes 27, Johnson (CT) Ose Tauscher pending business is the demand for a not voting 6, as follows: Johnson, Sam Oxley Tauzin recorded vote on the amendment of- Jones (NC) Packard Taylor (MS) [Roll No 214] Kanjorski Pallone Taylor (NC) fered by the gentleman from Texas AYES—401 Kaptur Pascrell Terry (Mr. DELAY) on which further pro- Kelly Pastor Thompson (CA) Abercrombie Brown (OH) Diaz-Balart ceedings were postponed and on which Kennedy Pease Thompson (MS) the ayes prevailed by voice vote. Ackerman Bryant Dickey Kildee Peterson (MN) Thornberry Aderholt Burr Dicks Kind (WI) Peterson (PA) Thune The Clerk will redesignate the Allen Burton Dingell King (NY) Petri Thurman amendment. Andrews Buyer Dixon Kingston Phelps Tiahrt Archer Callahan Doggett The Clerk redesignated the amend- Kleczka Pickering Tierney Armey Calvert Dooley ment. Klink Pickett Toomey Bachus Camp Doolittle Knollenberg Pitts Towns RECORDED VOTE Baird Canady Doyle Kolbe Pombo Baker Cannon Dreier Traficant The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. A re- Kucinich Pomeroy Turner Baldacci Capps Duncan Kuykendall Porter corded vote has been demanded. Baldwin Capuano Dunn Udall (CO) LaFalce Portman Udall (NM) A recorded vote was ordered. Ballenger Cardin Edwards LaHood Price (NC) Barcia Carson Ehlers Upton The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. This is Lampson Pryce (OH) Vela´ zquez Barr Castle Ehrlich Lantos Quinn a 5-minute vote. Vento Barrett (NE) Chabot Emerson Largent Radanovich The vote was taken by electronic de- Visclosky Barrett (WI) Chambliss English Larson Rahall Vitter vice, and there were—ayes 296, noes 133, Bartlett Chenoweth Eshoo Latham Ramstad Walden not voting 5, as follows: Barton Clement Etheridge LaTourette Rangel Walsh Bass Clyburn Evans Lazio Regula [Roll No. 215] Bateman Coble Everett Wamp Leach Reyes AYES—296 Becerra Coburn Farr Levin Reynolds Watkins Bentsen Collins Fattah Lewis (CA) Riley Watts (OK) Aderholt Blunt Clement Bereuter Combest Filner Lewis (GA) Rivers Waxman Andrews Boehlert Coble Berkley Condit Fletcher Lewis (KY) Rodriguez Weldon (FL) Archer Boehner Coburn Berman Cook Foley Linder Roemer Weldon (PA) Armey Bonilla Collins Berry Cooksey Forbes Lipinski Rogan Weller Bachus Bonior Combest Biggert Costello Ford LoBiondo Rogers Wexler Baird Bono Condit Bilbray Cox Fossella Lofgren Rohrabacher Weygand Baker Borski Cook Bilirakis Coyne Fowler Lowey Ros-Lehtinen Whitfield Ballenger Boswell Cooksey Bishop Cramer Frank (MA) Lucas (KY) Rothman Wicker Barcia Boyd Costello Blagojevich Crane Franks (NJ) Lucas (OK) Roukema Wilson Barr Brady (TX) Cox Bliley Crowley Frelinghuysen Luther Roybal-Allard Wise Barrett (NE) Bryant Cramer Blumenauer Cubin Frost Maloney (CT) Royce Wolf Bartlett Burr Crane Blunt Cunningham Gallegly Maloney (NY) Ryan (WI) Woolsey Barton Burton Cubin Boehlert Danner Ganske Manzullo Ryun (KS) Wu Bass Buyer Cunningham Boehner Davis (FL) Gejdenson Markey Sabo Wynn Bateman Callahan Danner Bonilla Davis (IL) Gekas Martinez Salmon Young (AK) Bentsen Calvert Davis (FL) Bonior Davis (VA) Gephardt Mascara Sanchez Young (FL) Bereuter Camp Davis (VA) Bono Deal Gibbons Berry Canady Deal Borski DeFazio Gilchrest NOES—27 Biggert Cannon DeLay Boswell DeGette Gillmor Bilbray Capps DeMint Boucher Delahunt Gilman Campbell Engel Jones (OH) Bilirakis Castle Deutsch Boyd DeLauro Gonzalez Clay Hastings (FL) Kilpatrick Bishop Chabot Diaz-Balart Brady (PA) DeLay Goode Clayton Hilliard Lee Blagojevich Chambliss Dickey Brady (TX) DeMint Goodlatte Conyers Jackson (IL) McDermott Bliley Chenoweth Doolittle Brown (FL) Deutsch Goodling Cummings Johnson, E.B. Meek (FL)

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00097 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13173 Doyle LaHood Ros-Lehtinen Hoyer Meehan Rush rently exist at the Federal, State, and local Dreier Lampson Rothman Jackson (IL) Meek (FL) Sabo level; Duncan Largent Roukema Jackson-Lee Meeks (NY) Sanchez (2) there have been an extremely low num- (TX) Millender- Sanders Dunn Latham Royce ber of prosecutions for Federal firearms vio- Edwards LaTourette Ryan (WI) Jefferson McDonald Sawyer Ehlers Lazio Ryun (KS) Johnson, E.B. Miller, George Schakowsky lations; Ehrlich Leach Salmon Jones (OH) Minge Scott (3) programs such a Project Exile have suc- Emerson Levin Sandlin Kaptur Mink Serrano ceeded in dramatically decreasing homicide Eshoo Lewis (CA) Sanford Kennedy Moakley Slaughter and gun-related crimes; and Etheridge Lewis (KY) Saxton Kilpatrick Moore Snyder (4) enhanced punishment and aggressive Everett Linder Scarborough Kind (WI) Moran (VA) Stark prosecution for crimes committed with fire- Ewing Lipinski Schaffer Klink Morella Strickland Kucinich Nadler Stupak arms, or possessing a firearm during com- Fletcher LoBiondo Sensenbrenner mission of a crime, are common sense solu- Foley Lofgren LaFalce Napolitano Tauscher Sessions tions to deter gun violence. Forbes Lowey Shadegg Lantos Neal Thompson (CA) Thompson (MS) Fossella Lucas (KY) Shaw Larson Oberstar The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Lee Obey Tierney Fowler Lucas (OK) Shays Lewis (GA) Olver Towns Resolution 209, the gentleman from Franks (NJ) Luther Sherman Markey Owens Udall (CO) Florida (Mr. STEARNS) and a Member Frelinghuysen Maloney (CT) Sherwood Martinez Pastor Udall (NM) Gallegly Maloney (NY) Shimkus opposed each will control 10 minutes. Matsui Payne Vela´ zquez Ganske Manzullo Shows The Chair recognizes the gentleman McCarthy (MO) Pelosi Vento Gekas Mascara from Florida (Mr. STEARNS). Shuster McCarthy (NY) Pomeroy Waters Gibbons McCollum Simpson Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Gilchrest McCrery McDermott Rahall Watt (NC) Sisisky McGovern Rangel Waxman myself such time as I may consume. Gillmor McHugh Skeen Gilman McInnis McKinney Rodriguez Woolsey Mr. Chairman, the legislation we are Skelton McNulty Roybal-Allard Wynn Goode McIntosh Smith (MI) discussing today and tomorrow will be Goodlatte McIntyre Smith (NJ) NOT VOTING—5 a major factor in demonstrating how Goodling McKeon Smith (TX) Gordon Menendez Brown (CA) Kasich Weiner this Congress addresses the concerns of Smith (WA) Houghton Thomas our Nation. My amendment inserts a Goss Metcalf Souder Graham Mica Spence b 2103 set of congressional findings into H.R. Granger Miller (FL) Spratt 1501 regarding enforcement of Federal Green (TX) Miller, Gary Stabenow So the amendment was agreed to. Green (WI) Mollohan firearms laws. Stearns The result of the vote was announced Gutknecht Moran (KS) Mr. Chairman, both the House and Stenholm Hall (TX) Murtha as above recorded the Senate have heard hours of testi- Stump Hansen Myrick Sununu PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY mony regarding this current epidemic Hastings (WA) Nethercutt Sweeney of youth violence, with both bodies ex- Hayes Ney Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, par- Talent Hayworth Northup liamentary inquiry. amining the role that guns have played Tancredo Hefley Norwood in the issue. One of the most striking Tanner The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will Herger Nussle Tauzin state his parliamentary inquiry. facts to emerge from these hearings is Hill (IN) Ortiz Hill (MT) Ose Taylor (MS) Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, can a very small number of prosecutions Hilleary Oxley Taylor (NC) the Chair inform us of the schedule at for Federal firearm violations. Hinojosa Packard Terry the present moment for the balance of Now, all of us in this Chamber re- Hobson Pallone Thornberry Thune the evening as to whether there will be member the Brady Act which passed in Hoekstra Pascrell the 103rd Congress. It was a law de- Holden Paul Thurman further votes? Holt Pease Tiahrt The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has no signed to prevent criminals or other in- Hooley Peterson (MN) Toomey information on the schedule. eligible individuals from obtaining fire- Horn Peterson (PA) Traficant Turner Mr. CONYERS. Could leadership give arms through waiting periods and Hostettler Petri background checks. Hulshof Phelps Upton us a clue? Hunter Pickering Visclosky Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, it is President Clinton announced earlier Vitter Hutchinson Pickett my understanding that we are going to today that since passage of the Brady Hyde Pitts Walden bill over 400,000 sales to individuals Walsh roll votes through the DeMint amend- Inslee Pombo prohibited from owning a firearm were Isakson Porter Wamp ment in the order that we are and prob- Istook Portman Watkins ably take any votes that have been or- prevented. Two-thirds of those were Jenkins Price (NC) Watts (OK) prior felons. dered then. I do not know if the intent John Pryce (OH) Weldon (FL) Under current law, it is illegal to Johnson (CT) Quinn Weldon (PA) is to go further than that but I do not Weller submit false information in attempting Johnson, Sam Radanovich believe Members generally will be re- to purchase a firearm. However, Mr. Jones (NC) Ramstad Wexler quired to stay for votes after that. I am Kanjorski Regula Weygand Chairman, not even a tenth of those at- Kelly Reyes Whitfield not quite sure how long that will take. tempts were prosecuted. Kildee Reynolds Wicker Mr. CONYERS. I thank the sub- Let me just give a few statistics from King (NY) Riley Wilson committee chair. It is our hope on this Kingston Rivers Wise the Executive Office of the U.S. Attor- Kleczka Roemer Wolf side that we will roll all the votes for ney on Firearms from 1996 to 1998. Out Knollenberg Rogan Wu the balance of the evening, if it pleases of all violations in the first phase of Kolbe Rogers Young (AK) the leadership. the Brady Act, only one person was Kuykendall Rohrabacher Young (FL) The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to prosecuted for unspecified violations NOES—133 consider amendment No. 21 printed in under the Brady Act. Less than 100 part A of House Report 106–186. were prosecuted since the beginning of Abercrombie Clay English Ackerman Clayton Evans AMENDMENT NO. 21 OFFERED BY MR. STEARNS the second phase; the instant check Allen Clyburn Farr Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I offer phase, there has not been a single pros- Baldacci Conyers Fattah an amendment. ecution. Baldwin Coyne Filner Now, let us compare the Brady Act to Barrett (WI) Crowley Ford The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- Becerra Cummings Frank (MA) ignate the amendment. another program, one that was not ini- Berkley Davis (IL) Frost The text of the amendment is as fol- tiated by Federal mandate and not ini- Berman DeFazio Gejdenson lows: tiated by this Congress, Project Exile Blumenauer DeGette Gephardt out of Richmond, Virginia. Boucher Delahunt Gonzalez Part A amendment No. 21 offered by Mr. Brady (PA) DeLauro Greenwood STEARNS: This was initiated by the U.S. Attor- Brown (FL) Dicks Gutierrez At the end of the bill insert the following: ney’s Office in Richmond, Virginia. Brown (OH) Dingell Hall (OH) SEC. ll. FINDINGS. Specifically, the program increased the Campbell Dixon Hastings (FL) number of prosecutions for felony pos- Capuano Doggett Hilliard The Congress finds that— Cardin Dooley Hinchey (1) more than 40,000 laws regulating the session of firearms when an individual Carson Engel Hoeffel sale, possession, and use of firearms cur- was apprehended in possession of a gun.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00098 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13174 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 When an individual was apprehended I would say to the gentleman from floor of the House to oppose any legis- in possession of a gun, he was exiled to Florida (Mr. STEARNS), this shows that lation that will require Federal pros- prison for a minimum of 5 years. Law he does not understand Brady’s pur- ecutors to do our job, I would do that. enforcement officers carried a lami- poses. It is preventive. If 400,000 ex-cons I stand here today in opposition to this nated card specifying the types of are stopped from getting semiauto- amendment and many of the other criminals targeted under the program: matic and other illegal weapons, the amendments that have come to this Felons, drug users and fugitives. If a law worked. Prosecutions were never floor to take away the discretion of suspect was caught with a firearm, and the purpose of the Brady Act. State prosecutors. it was determined that any Federal law First, the amendment notes that State prosecutors are elected and had been broken, prosecution began with thousands of current Federal and well endowed with the ability to handle immediately. State and local firearms laws in exist- many of the offenses that we are con- In 1997, Richmond had one of the ence, there have been very few prosecu- sidering here on this floor today. So I highest homicide rates in the Nation. tions under those laws. rise in opposition to the amendment. Within one year, under Project Exile, This finding is simply inaccurate. Further, Mr. Chairman, I would say, Richmond’s homicide rate was reduced The total number of Federal and State drying up the supply of firearms and by one-third. Furthermore, at the end prosecutions is up sharply. About 25 building on the success of Brady is what we intend to do. Since 1993, when of 1998, 309 Federal criminal gun law percent more criminals are sent to Brady became law, it meant more than violations were prosecuted. These were prison for State and Federal weapons 250,000 felons, fugitives, and other pro- prosecutions in one city, in one county. offenses than in 1992. It is a rise from hibitive purchasers have been denied The Brady Act is nationwide and can- 20,681 to 25,186. This argument also does not even begin to compete with this access to firearms. not acknowledge that the violent crime Let us talk about the purpose of program, Mr. Chairman. rates in America have dropped signifi- The administration in testimony be- Brady. It was preventive. It meant we cantly since 1992. The Nation’s overall fore the House Committee on the Judi- do not even let them get to have a gun violent crime rate has dropped by near- ciary stated that the number of pros- in order to commit an offense. By con- ly 20 percent since 1992. ecutions are not a good measure of the sidering the amendment that is on the law’s effectiveness. In fact, Attorney b 2130 floor today, Mr. Chairman, we deny the importance of Brady and make a sug- General Reno, in her May 5 appearance The collaboration between Federal, gestion, just by assuming the facts of before the Senate Committee on the State and local authorities and com- the amendment of the gentleman from Judiciary, stated, ‘‘I cannot promise munity leaders has led to more signifi- improvement in the numbers of pros- Florida (Mr. STEARNS), that that is cant decreases in specific areas. The going to do something to curb the gun ecutions.’’ drops in the violent crime rate extends Prosecution is a key to the law’s ef- problem in our country. specifically to crimes involving guns as To make statements is not going to fectiveness. The Brady Act may have well. prevented 400,000 illegal purchases but curb the problem. The way we curb gun Between 1992 and 1997, violent crimes problems in our country is gun control, knowing that two-thirds were prior fel- committed with guns, including homi- ons, how many of those then obtained gun safety, and gun trigger locks. cides, robberies, and aggravated as- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance guns illegally? If they were prosecuted saults fell by an average of 27 percent. of my time. for attempting to purchase a firearm as Overall, these statistics show that the Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield the law requires, we would not have to government is pursuing actively any myself such time as I may consume. ask that question. violations of the current firearm laws. Mr. Chairman, I think, while I have Mr. Chairman, my enforcement The argument that the decrease in my other speaker speak, I would like amendment simply states that this the number of Federal prosecutions in- the gentlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. body recognizes that our country has dicates otherwise ignores the coopera- JONES) to read the Federal Criminal over 40,000 firearm laws at all levels of tion between the several levels of gov- Code. It is a Federal crime to even at- government, and there has been less ernment and members of the commu- tempt to buy a firearm. Perhaps she than adequate prosecution of these nity to maximize prosecutorial re- would like to read 922. I do not think 40,000 laws. It acknowledges the success sources. she quite understands the amendment. of Project Exile through vigorous en- Second, the amendment notes that Mr. Chairman, I am delighted to forcement and prosecution of current programs such as Project Exile, which yield 1 minute to the gentleman from laws. shifts prosecution of gun offenses from Virginia (Mr. BLILEY), the distin- Finally, Mr. Chairman, my amend- guished chairman of the Committee on ment states that enhancement and ag- State court to Federal court, have re- duced homicide rates. While Project Commerce. gressive prosecution of gun crimes is Mr. BLILEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank Exile has reduced homicide rates, it is the best deterrent to gun violence. En- the gentleman from Florida for yield- not without its share of criticisms. forcement and prosecution is the key ing me this time. to curbing gun violence and protecting First, it greatly expands the number Let me say this, I commend the gen- our children, and I urge the adoption of of criminal cases handled in the Fed- tleman for his amendment. Project this amendment. eral court, which prevents the court Exile has worked in Richmond. It has Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance from adequately handling other cases the support of the Richmond City of my time. that are the proper domain of the court Council, the Richmond City Police De- Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I such as civil rights case and multistate partment. It has been responsible for rise in opposition to the amendment. civil cases. Further, by requiring the reducing homicides in the city by a The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman U.S. Attorney to charge the most seri- substantial amount. from Ohio (Mrs. JONES) is recognized ous offense possible, it takes away Let me read, though, it has been rec- for 10 minutes. prosecutorial discretion. ognized that most violent crime is Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I Finally, encouraging Federal pros- committed by just a few repeat offend- yield myself such time as I may con- ecutors to prosecute State court of- ers, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern sume. fenses is another example of the Fed- District of Virginia, whose office initi- Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from eral Government encroaching on the ated Project Exile, says, and I quote, Florida (Mr. STEARNS) admits that the domain of the States. ‘‘Officials were shocked at the extent Brady Act is working. He cites 400,000 When I got elected to Congress, Mr. of Project Exile. Suspects criminals criminals and others who could not get Chairman, I committed to my col- records: Several have been four, five guns, but he says that those 400,000 pro- leagues, members of the National Dis- and eight convictions of offenses as se- hibited persons should have been tried trict Attorneys Association, that if I rious as robbery, abduction, and mur- or prosecuted for false statements. had an opportunity to stand on the der. Let me say, this has been a project

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that has worked, and I hope that more JACKSON-LEE), who serves on the Com- this side of the aisle is not encouraging cities and communities around the mittee on the Judiciary, that the prosecution. The statement that has in country will adopt it.’’ Brady bill was not passed just to per- fact been made is that the Brady bill’s Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I suade people not to get firearms. It was intention was to take guns out of the yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman put in place to actually enforce people hands of criminals. from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). who were felons. As I pointed out ear- Now, it is important that since my Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. lier to the gentlewoman from Ohio colleagues think it is important to set Chairman, I thank the gentlewoman (Mrs. JONES), in the Federal Criminal forth findings in the RECORD in this ju- from Ohio for yielding me this time, Code, on Rule 922, unlawful acts, it is venile crime bill with regard to the and I thank her for her very pointed unlawful to attempt to buy a firearm if Richmond case, why not set forth some and very responsive comments to the one is a felon. findings that, in fact, if we had a trig- gentleman’s amendment. We have had plenty of data to show ger lock on the gun, people would not I think it is all right to recite as that occurred, and it was not pros- be able to kill other people so quickly? findings that we all can do a better job ecuted. So if that side of the aisle Why not set forth a finding that, if, in at law enforcement. But I think it is wants to make the case and excuses fact, we had a waiting period on the important to be clear on just what has that they do not want to prosecute, purchase of a gun, people might not happened over the last 5 years. Gun that is their case. have opportunity to shoot people so laws are enforced more vigorously Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 minutes to quickly? today than 5 years ago by nearly any the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. SHAD- My colleagues talk about common- measure. Prosecutions are more fre- EGG). sense solutions. The common-sense so- quent than ever before. Sentences are Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, I rise lutions, as I said, Mr. Chairman, would, longer, and the number of inmates in in strong support of the gentleman’s in fact, set forth the finding that, if, in prison on gun offenses is at a record amendment, and I want to make it fact, this Congress would find that gun level. The number of inmates in Fed- clear what it does and what it does not control and gun safety were important, eral prison on firearm or arson charges do. we would have less homicides and less increased 51 percent from 1993 to 1998 Project Exile is a very simple project killings in this country. to 8,979. initiated by the U.S. Attorney in Rich- So when we talk about common- I think it is certainly commendable mond, Virginia, and it is straight- sense solutions, let us get some com- of the Committee on Rules to have al- forward. It simply says we will have mon sense in the House and pass gun lowed just about every amendment zero tolerance for two things: crimes control right here, right now, today. that Republicans offered to get in, committed with guns and possessing a But let us go back to findings as we some good, some not. But it certainly gun when one commits a crime. call common-sense solutions. In fact, does not speak to what we are trying to The U.S. Attorney in Richmond, Vir- prosecutors throughout this country, do here, to be responsible. ginia said, ‘‘You know what? We have both Federal and State prosecutors, I think my colleague made it very got lots of criminals committing have done a great job at prosecuting all clear that the Brady bill is preventive. crimes with guns and lots of criminals, types of offenses. Crime in this country It is to get guns out of the hands of fel- indeed many of them previously con- is down as a result of the prosecution ons and criminals so that they do not victed felons, who cannot possess a by numerous prosecutors throughout commit crimes. gun, committing crimes while they this country. Homicide rates are down I have a letter from the City of Hous- possess a gun; and we are going to as a result of numerous prosecutions ton, Houston Fire Department EMS adopt a policy that says we will tol- by prosecutors, both State and Federal. that indicates that passing laws in and erate that not one iota, zero tolerance Mr. Chairman let me state to my col- of themselves are preventive. for crimes committed with guns and leagues that I rise in opposition to the I hope we will be able to pass, for ex- for possessing a gun while committing amendment. ample, closing the gun show loophole. a crime.’’ Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance Those provide chilling effects, as the So they decided to aggressively pros- of my time. Brady bill did, to prevent people from ecute those two crimes. What was the Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield even going, when I say people, prevent net effect? Three hundred ninety de- 30 seconds to the gentleman from Ari- those individuals who have criminal in- fendants have been prosecuted in Fed- zona (Mr. HAYWORTH). terests from even going into a gun eral court. But that is the shocking re- Mr. HAYWORTH. Mr. Chairman, I show. I hope the gentleman from Flor- sult. The shocking result is that the thank the gentleman from Florida for ida (Mr. STEARNS) will join us in pass- crime, the homicide rate in the city of yielding me the time. ing that. Richmond, Virginia was cut by one- I thank the gentlewoman from Ohio The city of Houston EMS director third. (Mrs. JONES), Mr. Chairman, although I wrote and said the gun safety legisla- Let us talk about what this amend- do wish with parliamentary decorum tion we passed in 1992 saw a sizable de- ment says. The amendment says she would address her remarks through crease in intentional shootings by chil- straightforward, findings about what the Chair. dren just by the passing of the law. has happened, and says ‘‘enhanced pun- As former President Reagan said, So I would take issue with the fact ishment and aggressive prosecution for facts are stubborn things. The fact is, that we have a problem with enforce- crimes committed with firearms, or Mr. Chairman, 300,000 convicted felons ment. But I would also ask my col- possessing a firearm during the com- have not been prosecuted under the league if he would join me in sup- mission of a crime, are common-sense Brady law. porting increasing the ATF, as I had solutions to deter gun violence.’’ Project Exile and the amendment of- offered in the Committee on Rules, by Who can argue with that? We need to fered by the gentleman from Florida some thousand officers to increase it to prosecute those crimes as aggressively (Mr. STEARNS) is a common-sense solu- 2,800. as possible and should hope we can tion to say that criminals who commit All of these things I think contribute achieve the results that Richmond, crimes with firearms and with firearms to a better response to gun violence. Virginia has achieved. in their possession will go to jail. But certainly I am not talking about I urge Members to support the Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield the fact that we have not been enforc- amendment. 30 seconds to the distinguished gen- ing the law. Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I tleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield yield myself such time as I may con- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I myself such time as I may consume. sume. strongly support this amendment. The Mr. Chairman, I just would remind Mr. Chairman, so that the other side fact is that, if one is a felon and one the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. of the aisle is not confused, no one on goes to buy a gun anywhere or possess

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00100 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13176 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 one, one has committed a crime and member of the committee controlling The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate one ought to be prosecuted. time in opposition to the amendment on this amendment has expired. Under the Bush administration, who has the right to close. The question is on the amendment under what they call Operation Trigger Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I offered by the gentleman from Florida Lock, that was happening all over the ask unanimous consent to yield the (Mr. STEARNS). country so that we could take felons balance of my time to a member of the The question was taken; and the who committed the crime of having a committee and that that individual be Chairman announced that the ayes ap- gun on their person after they have allowed to control the time. peared to have it. been convicted previously off the Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I ob- Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I de- streets. This administration has been ject. mand a recorded vote. unwilling to do that. The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Sure we have State prosecutions that The gentlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. Resolution 209, further proceedings on may be up on gun crimes, but we sure JONES) has 45 seconds remaining, and the amendment offered by the gen- as heck do not have Federal prosecu- the gentleman from Florida (Mr. tleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS) tions. The gentleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS) has 1 minute remaining and will be postponed. STEARNS) has a very good amendment reserves the right to close. It is now in order to consider amend- to point that fact out. The Chair recognizes the gentle- ment No. 22 printed in part A of House We should be prosecuting these folks. woman from Ohio (Mrs. JONES). Report 106–186. We should be locking them up. Not- Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I AMENDMENT NO. 22 OFFERED BY MR. LATHAM withstanding that Brady may have yield the balance of my time to the Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, I offer other purposes as well that are good, gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. an amendment. this is a very important one, and it DELAHUNT), a member of the com- The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- should be done. mittee. ignate the amendment. Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I The text of the amendment is as fol- yield myself such time as I may con- thank the gentlewoman for yielding me lows: sume. this time. Part A amendment No. 22 offered by Mr. Mr. Chairman, I would like to, for I find it interesting that during the LATHAM: the record, make it clear that I have course of this debate we are talking Add at the end the following new title: addressed all of my remarks to the about enforcement, and yet earlier, TITLE ll—DRUG DEALER LIABILITY Chairman and will continue to do so when I asked the chair of the sub- SEC. ll. FEDERAL CAUSE OF ACTION FOR DRUG because I understand decorum on the committee whether he had authorized DEALER LIABILITY. floor as well. $8 million to fund the additional or des- (a) IN GENERAL.—Part E of the Controlled ignated assistance, the answer was Substances Act is amended by adding at the Let me suggest that, under the Bush end the following: ‘‘No, we will do it someplace else.’’ administration, we did not have the ‘‘SEC. 521. FEDERAL CAUSE OF ACTION FOR Brady bill. So, surely, they had to do I just want to close by saying just DRUG DEALER LIABILITY. trigger lock. imagine if we are reluctant to do that ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in Under the Clinton administration, we what the cost would be to prosecute 10 subsection (b), any person who manufactures have had in fact had the Brady bill, and percent of 400,000 cases. This is absurd. or distributes a controlled substance in a fel- trigger lock is still operating through- These cases are prosecuted, as the gen- ony violation of this title or title III shall be out many of the jurisdictions through- tlewoman has indicated, at the State liable in a civil action to any party harmed, level. Crime is down. Homicides are directly or indirectly, by the use of that con- out this United States. trolled substance. It is important again, I say, that if in down. Why? Because of the Brady bill. ‘‘(b) EXCEPTION.—An individual user of a fact we are making findings, let us Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield controlled substance may not bring or main- make findings that, without guns, peo- myself the balance of my time, and tain an action under this section unless the ple cannot kill. Without the NRA push- would respond to my good friend from individual personally discloses to narcotics ing so many of my colleagues on the Massachusetts, who was not here ear- enforcement authorities all of the informa- floor to vote against gun controls, we lier, that my colleague the gentleman tion known to the individual regarding all would not have guns in our streets. from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) did offer that individual’s sources of illegal controlled an amendment to provide $50 million substances.’’. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of of my time. additional money for prosecution. sections for the Comprehensive Drug Abuse The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman At any rate, let me close, Mr. Chair- Prevention and Control Act of 1970 is amend- from Ohio (Mrs. JONES) has 45 seconds man, by saying if the general public ed by inserting after the time relating to remaining. The gentleman from Flor- understood the truth about crime and section 520 the following new item: ida (Mr. STEARNS) has 1 minute re- guns, there would be virtually no sup- ‘‘Sec. 521. Federal cause of action for drug maining. port for the gun control measures that dealer liability.’’. are continually posed here in Congress. b 2130 The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Crime and criminals are what the pub- Resolution 209, the gentleman from Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I have lic is really concerned about. And the Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) and a Member op- the opportunity to close, as I under- uncomplicated truth is that under ex- posed each will control 10 minutes. stand. isting Federal laws any violent felons The Chair recognizes the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is or drug dealers who pick up any fire- from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM). correct. arms are committing serious Federal Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I re- crimes, crimes punishable by long pris- myself such time as I may consume. serve the balance of my time. on terms. Mr. Chairman, first of all, I would PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY The law can work, but only, I say to like to take the opportunity to thank Mrs. JONES of Ohio. I am raising the my colleagues on that side, if it is en- the Committee on Rules and the gen- question of his right to close with the forced. It has been, with great success, tleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) entire time, Mr. Chairman. enforced in Richmond, Virginia, under for giving me the opportunity to offer We are defending the committee posi- a program we talked about earlier, my amendment to this very important tion, so I am raising the parliamentary Project Exile. Project Exile adopts a bill addressing juvenile crime in Amer- inquiry as to why he has the oppor- zero tolerance for Federal gun crimes ica. tunity to close. with Federal, State and local law en- Unfortunately, juvenile crime is a The CHAIRMAN. The Chair under- forcement. growing trend across this Nation. For stands that the gentlewoman is not a Mr. Chairman, I urge the passage of years, the rural States thought them- member of the committee. It is only a my amendment. selves immune from serious juvenile

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00101 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13177 crime and drug problems that were af- as California, Arkansas, Illinois, Michi- Is there objection? fecting America’s coasts and the big gan, Georgia, Louisiana, Indiana, Ha- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. In its cities. However, this is no longer the waii, South Dakota and Oklahoma, present form, Mr. Chairman, I will case. In fact, nowhere is juvenile crime have enacted similar laws. stand in opposition to the amendment growing faster than in America’s The first lawsuit brought under a and I exercise the reservation at this heartland. This, of course, is directly State drug dealer liability law was time. related to the incredible growth in brought by Wayne County Neighbor- The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman drug use. hood Legal Services in Michigan on be- from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE) objects. According to the U.S. Department of half of a drug addicted baby and its sib- Does the gentlewoman from Texas seek Justice’s latest statistics, juvenile lings. The suit resulted in a judgment to control the time in opposition? drug arrests across the Nation have of $1 million in favor of the baby. The Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Yes, I more than doubled since 1988. My home City of Detroit joined in on the suit do, Mr. Chairman. State of Iowa is experiencing an un- and received a judgment of more than The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman precedented influx of $7 million to provide drug treatment from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE) is recog- methamphetamines. Just last week in for inmates in the city’s jails. nized for 10 minutes. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Storm Lake, Iowa, with a population of This legislation, while not as com- Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gen- just 8,769 people, 10 were arrested for prehensive as those State laws, which tlewoman from California (Ms. WA- trafficking and drugs. Four of those ar- incorporate a broad reaching liability, TERS). rested were only 18 years old. Those does provide a simple tool to empower Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in kids are probably just finishing high victims. In fact, this amendment is support of this amendment. I think school and pushing that poison on perfectly suited to go after the white this is an excellent amendment that is other students. collar drug dealers whose clientele in- being offered by the gentleman on the Clearly, our children are the most in- cludes their professional friends, who opposite side of the aisle, the gen- nocent and vulnerable to those affected are less likely to be the subject of a tleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM). And by illegal drug use. The very nature of criminal investigation. As we all know, parents who abuse let me tell my colleagues why. drug abuse makes this an epidemic This amendment, as I understand it, that has severe monetary costs as well, drugs are more likely to have children that abuse drugs as well. It is my hope is an amendment that would make creating significant financial chal- drug dealers liable for the poison that lenges for parents, law enforcement the prospect of substantial monetary loss, made possible by my amendment, they put out on the streets and the and human service providers. For many harm that is perpetrated on those who of the juvenile addicts, who are in- would also act as a deterrent to enter- ing the narcotics market. Dealers end up being the victims of these drug creasingly female, by the way, the only pushing their poison on our children sales. And it does not matter who is hope is extensive medical and psycho- and other family members may think doing it, but if they are found to be logical treatment, along with physical again when they consider that they guilty and liable for selling these therapy or even special education. All could lose everything, even without a drugs, then that creates a cause of ac- of these potential remedies are expen- criminal conviction. In addition, this tion. sive. Very, very expensive. In fact, the amendment would establish an incen- The reason that I am supporting this most recent figures estimate the an- tive for users to identify and seek pay- is because I have been working for nual cost of substance abuse in the ment for their own drug treatment some years trying to help unfold what United States to be nearly $100 billion. from those dealers who have sold drugs happens in the intelligence community Juveniles, through their parents or to the user in the past. as it relates to trafficking and drugs through court-appointed guardians, While this legislation is not meant to and covert operations. What we have should be able to recover damages from be a silver bullet, it is another tool to discovered is that the CIA, as one of those in the community that have en- combat and deter drug abuse and traf- the intelligence agencies, knew very tered and participated in the sale of ficking. Current law allows for a pro- well about the trafficking in drugs, the types of illegal drugs that have ducer of a legal product that injures a particularly as it related to getting caused those injuries. The amendment customer to be held liable for injuries profits from the drugs that went to I am offering today would provide a resulting from the use of that product. support the Contras in the war between civil remedy for the people harmed by However, most States do not provide the Contras and the Sandinistas. drugs, whether it be the actual user, compensation for persons who cause in- For many months now we have had the family of a user, or even the clinic jury by intentionally distributing ille- people who have been working on this, or the community that provides treat- gal drugs. The Latham drug liability and they have said to us that all of the ment to hold drug dealers accountable amendment fills the gap to make drug damage that was caused by these for selling this poison that is tearing dealers liable under civil law for the in- drugs, the crack cocaine that was let apart the very fabric of our society. juries to the victims of the drug. loose in these communities in an effort There are drug pushers in all of our Finally, I hope I will be able to work to fund the Contras, is directly the congressional districts who profit from with the chairman, the gentleman from fault of the CIA and those intelligence this culture of death, pain and depend- Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM), and ranking agencies that were involved in these ency that must be taken to task. Many member, the gentleman from Michigan covert operations. of them elude the authorities by get- (Mr. CONYERS), on a more comprehen- b 2145 ting off on technicalities in criminal sive liability measure in the future. actions or through their positions as Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues So this gentleman is absolutely cor- affluent members in the community. to support the Latham amendment and rect. They should be made liable for However, that should not make them give the victims of illegal drugs an op- what they have done. They have admit- immune for paying for the destruction portunity to hold the drug dealers of ted now that there were drug traf- they cause. this poison accountable under criminal fickers in their midst. They have said This amendment would empower vic- and civil law. they were not responsible directly, but tims to take action, like the Utah Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance they have said they had a memo- housewife who sued her husband’s drug of my time. randum of understanding, which some dealer ‘‘friend’’ of 6 years under that Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in of us question. Well, there is no longer State’s drug dealer liability law. Her support of the amendment. a memorandum of understanding, and husband actually shared a vacation The CHAIRMAN. If there is no objec- this amendment would take care of cabin with the dealer until after years tion, the gentlewoman from California that. of abuse her husband lost his job and (Ms. WATERS) may control the time I am thankful to the gentleman for ruined his family. Other States, such otherwise reserved for the opposition. offering this amendment. Because it

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00102 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13178 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 does not matter who it is, whether it is ness. They must be held accountable no, it would not be my understanding. a drug dealer on the streets, in the not only by the justice system but by No. cornfields of Iowa, or a drug dealer up society for the tragic consequences of Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. in New York or the Midwest, wherever their business. They must be forced to Chairman, reclaiming my time, then it is, or the intelligence community, if see the faces of the mother, the father, let me say to the gentleman, I thank they are dealing in drugs for any rea- the brother, the sister of the teenager him for his explanation and want to son, they should be liable for the devas- who overdosed on cocaine that they say to him that we want to offer our tation and the harm that is caused to sold. support for this amendment, frankly the individuals who end up being the A successful drug dealer can make because it goes to the very problem of victims of those drug sales. thousands of dollars a week practicing so many in our community who have So I would ask my colleagues on both their illegal trade. In fact, they encour- seen their houses burned because, for sides of the aisle to embrace this age young people to do this same type example, they have a crack house next amendment, to support this amend- of business because they can buy all to their home and, in order to destroy ment, to vote ‘‘aye’’ on this amend- the fancy cars and fancy toys. And do the evidence, what happens is that the ment. It is very important that we fi- not be misled to thinking it is only in dealers destroy the property. nally have an opportunity to seek jus- the inner city where we have drug Some instances we will find that peo- tice for those victims that were created problems. It is in Palm Beach, in Bev- ple have lost their life because of those as a result of trafficking drugs by our erly Hills. It is in the richest enclaves tragedies that have occurred, drive-by own intelligence community. around America. shootings because of drug deals, and in- We have some young people who are Drugs have permeated our society. nocent victims who are sitting in their actively working on a lawsuit coming They are destroying our families and home enjoying their dinner or looking out of the San Francisco area on this our youth. Every drug dealer who is ar- at television have lost their life and very issue. This will support that. This rested and jailed for possession and the have left these families in our inner will help them to be able to get all of sale of drugs should also be held ac- city neighborhood and elsewhere with- the victims to come forth, some of countable for the physical damage, the out any remedy. them who will be able to comply with medical bills, the cost of drug treat- If this legislation and amendment the conditions of this amendment. ments, for the funerals that they are would answer these questions and par- As I understand it, the conditions of responsible for. ticularly give them an enhanced oppor- So I ask my colleagues to please pass this amendment would have those vic- tunity to sue, then I believe that, this amendment. Send a message to tims identify those persons who were alongside of the opportunities they drug dealers that their profitable trade responsible for selling the drugs. We may have under tort law, then this is should stop and, more importantly, if have people who are claiming to be an amendment that we can certainly they inflict their dangerous drugs on able to identify people in the intel- support and encourage the passage of. other people, they will pay a high price ligence community who were involved. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance not only in prison but the hopeful for- Also, we have people who are able to of my time. feiture of their assets so that those as- identify the assets of the intelligence Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, I yield sets can be conveyed to the families community, many of them still in this 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from Ala- who have lost loved ones. country, some of them have fled to Again, the amendment of the gen- bama (Mr. RILEY). Nicaragua and down in Guatemala and Mr. RILEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank tleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) will other places, who should really be ex- hold persons who manufacture and dis- the gentleman for yielding. tradited and brought back here for the tribute illegal, controlled substances Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong sup- harm that they caused. liable for civil action for those harmed port of the drug dealer liability amend- I would ask support for this amend- by the use of the controlled substance. ment offered by the gentleman from ment. I think it is a good amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Iowa (Mr. LATHAM). In my view, this is a law that should I think it is a sound amendment. from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) has 11⁄2 min- Mr. Chairman, finally, I would say to utes remaining. The gentlewoman from have been on the books a long time the gentleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) ago. The reason is simple. In many Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE) has 51⁄2 min- that he is doing the work that is need- utes remaining. cases, there is just not enough evidence ed to be done to get at the drug dealers Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. to convict a dealer or a manufacturer who would dare dump this poison on Chairman, I indicated my reservation of illegal drugs in criminal court. our children and in our midst. of objection in its present form. I Worse yet, many individuals simply Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, I yield would like to ask the author of the get off on a technicality and, as a re- 2 minutes to the gentleman from Flor- amendment an inquiry if I could to be sult, too many peddlers of this poison ida (Mr. FOLEY). clear on the position that this amend- slip through the cracks and are never Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, let me ment now takes. punished for the harm they inflict on thank the gentleman from Iowa (Mr. Does the liability provision enhance our children and our families and our LATHAM) for this excellent amendment existing tort opportunities, if you will, society. and remind our colleagues that Carroll the fact that we can go into court on When we know that these people are O’Connor, a noted actor and TV star, tort issues? Does this narrowly define dealing drugs but we cannot convict lost his son to cocaine. He has led a them? Are these as relevant to a drug- them in criminal court, does it not fight to bring that gentleman who sold related incident? make sense to provide any other judi- him the drugs to justice because he be- Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, if the cial remedy possible? lieved that man infected his son with a gentlewoman would yield, what it does Mr. Chairman, that is the point of drug addiction that caused his un- is empower the family or the commu- the Latham amendment. If we cannot timely demise. nity somehow to go after the dealer, convict them in criminal court, then I strongly support this amendment, the manufacturer of illegal drugs to re- we will get them in civil court and we and I urge my colleagues to do the cover damages for rehabilitation for will hit them where it hurts them the same. This amendment should serve as any kind of help that they need in the most, we will hit them in their pocket- a retribution for every individual future. book. whose life has been destroyed by drug Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. This type of legislation has worked use and for every family who has had Chairman, does it extinguish in any well at the State level, and there is ab- to suffer the pain and turmoil of a way any tort liability or rights that solutely no reason that it will not loved one being addicted to drugs. they may have under existing tort law? work at the Federal level. The drug dealers must learn that Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, if the I urge my colleagues to pass this their evil trade is more than a busi- gentlewoman would continue to yield, amendment. Very few votes that we

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00103 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13179 will make today will have as much im- that we are trying to do to protect our under the Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.) or under pact on reducing drugs in our society children. Drug kingpins have been the Controlled Substances Import and Ex- and in this country this year. prominent in our respective commu- port Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et seq.), but does not Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. nities, controlling drug cartels. We mean a controlled substance used pursuant Chairman, I would like to inquire, do to a valid prescription or as authorized by need to reach out and do something law; and we have the right to close in defending about them, as well. ‘‘(C) the term ‘illegal drug paraphernalia’ the committee’s position? Lastly, Mr. Chairman, I do want to means drug paraphernalia, as defined in sec- The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman conclude and not take away from the tion 422(d) of the Controlled Substances Act from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE) does, gentleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) be- (21 U.S.C. 863(d)), except that the first sen- and all time of the gentleman from cause I thank him for his kindness in tence of that section shall be applied by in- Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) has expired. working in a bipartisan manner, but I serting ‘or under the Controlled Substances Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, will do believe that gun trafficking is some- Import and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et the gentlewoman yield? seq.)’, before the period; and thing that we need to attack. ‘‘(D) the term ‘felonious quantities of an il- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. We also need to promote and increase Chairman, I will as soon as I determine legal drug’ means any quantity of an illegal the numbers of ATF officers. Eighteen drug— how much time I have remaining. hundred compared to some 50,000 FBI ‘‘(i) possession of which quantity would, The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman officers. Eighteen hundred ATF offi- under Federal, State, or local law, either from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE) has 3 cers. And the money that has been al- constitute a felony or indicate an intent to minutes remaining. lotted so far is not enough to assist in distribute; or Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. making cases with our local jurisdic- ‘‘(ii) that is possessed with an intent to Chairman, I am happy to yield such distribute.’’. tion. time as he may consume to the gen- (4) REPORT TO STATE.—Section The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate 14601(d)(2)(C) is amended by inserting ‘‘ille- tleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM). on this amendment has expired. Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, I want gal drugs or’’ before ‘‘weapons’’. The question is on the amendment to thank the gentlewoman very much (5) REPEALER.—Section 14601 is amended by offered by the gentleman from Iowa striking subsection (f). for her support, all the people that (Mr. LATHAM). (6) POLICY REGARDING CRIMINAL JUSTICE have worked so hard on this bill, and The question was taken; and the SYSTEM REFERRAL.—Section 14602(a) is the DEA, which has helped craft this Chairman announced that the ayes ap- amended by— bill to take out some fine points that peared to have it. (1) striking ‘‘served by’’ and inserting really I think will be of great assist- Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, I de- ‘‘under the jurisdiction of’’; and ance to us in the future to tackle this (2) by inserting after ‘‘who’’ the following: mand a recorded vote. ‘‘is in possession of an illegal drug, or illegal most serious problem. A recorded vote was ordered. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. drug paraphernalia, on school property under The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Chairman, I yield myself such time as the jurisdiction of, or in a vehicle operated Resolution 209, further proceedings on by an employee or agent of, such agency, or I may consume, and I thank the gen- the amendment offered by the gen- who’’. tleman very much for his comments. tleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) will be (7) DATA AND POLICY DISSEMINATION UNDER Mr. Chairman, I would simply say to postponed. IDEA.—Section 14603 is amended— the Chair, it is these bipartisan efforts It is now in order to consider Amend- (1) in paragraph (1), by inserting ‘‘current’’ that I think shows the House in its best ment No. 23 printed in Part A of House before ‘‘policy’’; light. (2) in paragraph (2)— I would simply hope that, as we move Report 106–186. (A) by inserting before ‘‘engaging’’ the fol- throughout this legislative initiative AMENDMENT NO. 23 OFFERED BY MR. ROGAN lowing ‘‘possessing illegal drugs, or illegal trying to deal with juvenile crime, that Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I offer an drug paraphernalia, on school property, or in we not only find an opportunity to amendment. vehicles operated by employees or agents of, The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- schools or local educational agencies, or’’; have bipartisan agreement on impor- and tant legislative initiatives, such as pro- ignate the amendment. The text of the amendment is as fol- (B) by striking ‘‘; and’’ and inserting a pe- viding protection to those who have riod; and been civilly damaged by the tragedies lows: (3) by striking paragraph (3). of drug use and drug abuse, but that we Part A Amendment No. 23 offered by Mr. (b) COMPLIANCE DATE; REPORTING.—(1) can also be straightforward in our re- ROGAN: States shall have 2 years from the date of en- At the end of the bill, add the following sponse to the protection, if you will, of actment of this Act to comply with the re- (and make such technical and conforming quirements established in the amendments necessary gun laws. changes as may be appropriate): made by subsection (a). I indicated earlier that I had received SEC. 3. SAFE SCHOOLS. (2) Not later than 3 years after the date of a letter from my EMS director who in- (a) AMENDMENTS.—Part F of title XIV of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Edu- dicated just the passage of gun protec- the Elementary and Secondary Education cation shall submit to Congress a report on tion laws provides a chilling effect for Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 8921 et seq.) is amended any State that is not in compliance with the those who may want to use guns reck- as follows: requirements of this part. (3) Not later than 2 years after the date of lessly or promote more guns on the (1) SHORT TITLE.—Section 14601(a) is amended by striking ‘‘Gun-Free Schools Act enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Edu- streets of this Nation. cation shall submit to Congress a report ana- And so, this legislation dealing with of 1994’’ and inserting ‘‘Safe Schools Act of 1999’’. lyzing the strengths and weaknesses of ap- civil liability, Carroll O’Connor was proaches regarding the disciplining of chil- (2) REQUIREMENTS.—Section 14601(b)(1) is dren with disabilities. cited, but I can cite many, many people amended by inserting after ‘‘determined’’ the in our respective communities who following: ‘‘to be in possession of felonious The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House have suffered time and time again. quantities of an illegal drug, on school prop- Resolution 209, the gentleman from I would hope that we would have the erty under the jurisdiction of, or in a vehicle California (Mr. ROGAN) and a Member opportunity to work in a bipartisan operated by an employee or agent of, a local opposed each will control 10 minutes. way on other legislative initiatives. educational agency in that State, or’’. The Chair recognizes the gentleman I hope as well, Mr. Chairman, and I (3) DEFINITIONS.—Section 14601(b)(4) is from California (Mr. ROGAN). heard my colleague the gentlewoman amended to read as follows: ‘‘For purposes of Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield from California (Ms. WATERS) speak this part— myself such time as I may consume. eloquently on this, that we would ex- ‘‘(A) the term ‘‘1 weapon’’ means a firearm Mr. Chairman, as parents and as leg- as such term is defined in section 921 of title pand the reach of dealing with the li- 18, United States Code; islators, nothing is more important ability question to drug kingpins and ‘‘(B) the term ‘illegal drug’ means a con- than supporting safe productive gun kingpins. trolled substance, as defined in section 102(6) schools. This gun running has been a problem of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. Today our children face unprece- and it has made a terrible blight on all 802(6)), the possession of which is unlawful dented threats from drugs and violence

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00104 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13180 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 in our Nation’s schools. It is time to The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman the public schools, and instead it would enact bipartisan legislation to correct from Virginia is recognized for 10 min- put them on the street. With all due re- this horrible situation. utes. spect, although I do not agree with the The President, in his State of the Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield gentleman’s suggestion that that is the Union Address, called for zero toler- myself such time as I may consume. only alternative, either in the schools ance for guns and drugs in schools. The Mr. Chairman, this is another exam- or in the streets; if that, in fact, were President is right. It is time for the ple of a need for deliberation. If we had the case, I would respectfully suggest House to signal its commitment to had deliberation and had a hearing on that most parents with kids in school eliminating drugs from the public this, we would have found that all of would rather have those people selling schools. the available research shows that a drugs or with guns removed from the I am pleased to offer this amend- suspension is the last thing that we school than in school to terrorize the ment, Mr. Chairman, to help us achieve would want to do. children. our goal of drug-free schools. This The gentleman from California men- Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he amendment gives State and local tioned the requirement that services be may consume to the gentleman from school officials the weapons they need continued for someone that is expelled Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I to strike a major blow in the war on from school. That is only true for those strongly support the gentleman’s drugs. The amendment requires that who are designated as special edu- amendment. I think that if one is sell- any school accepting Federal education cation students under Individuals with ing felonious quantities of drugs in a funds must adopt a zero-tolerance pol- Disabilities Education Act, and of course an amendment to remove that school or possessing felonious quan- icy regarding felonious possession of tities of drugs in a school, they have no provision is coming up later. In fact, drugs. It applies the same standards to business being there because they are the Elementary and Secondary Edu- drugs as are currently applied to guns. providing harm to the other students. Those who come to school to use or sell cation Act that was passed, is present Now I am very sympathetic to the illegal drugs simply should not be al- law, provides that in cases of expelling concern that that person who is doing lowed to attend. a student nothing in the title shall be the selling in some way be diverted This amendment also addresses the construed to prevent a State from al- into some other program. I think there next concern, which is, what next? Cur- lowing the local education agency that are agencies of the government that rent law provides for the education of has expelled a student from such stu- can and should handle that, but the re- those expelled in an alternative facil- dent’s regular classroom from pro- ality is that if a kid is in school with ity and provide for a case-by-case ap- viding educational services in an alter- this kind of quantity of drugs, that is a peal with a local school official. This native setting. They are not prohibited jeopardizing factor for every child of amendment would continue that same from doing it, but there is nothing that every parent who has a child in that policy with respect to drugs as we cur- requires them to do it. school, and I think this is a very fine rently have on the books with respect Now, if we had had a hearing, we amendment, and we need to have this to guns. would have known that threatening a amendment adopted. It makes every Zero tolerance for illegal drugs can kid with a 1-year suspension or 1-year bit of sense in the world if we are going work. In a national survey by the Cen- vacation, a kid that did not want to go to have that with respect to the gun ter for Addiction and Substance Abuse to school anyway would not be much of issue. at Columbia University, they reported a threat. We would have known that Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- that more than 80 percent of those on without an alternative education that man, will the gentleman yield? the front lines in the war against that person would be much more likely Mr. MCCOLLUM. I yield to the gen- drugs, teachers, principals and, yes, to get in trouble. As a matter of fact, tlewoman from Florida. even students, believe that zero-toler- he has got nothing constructive to do, Mrs. MEEK of Florida. All right. ance policies are effective and will re- so he is much more likely to be com- What is meant by felonious quantities? duce drugs in their schools. mitting crimes because he is on the Is it the same thing in every State? Is street, nothing to do, crime and drug a felonious quantity in Florida the b 2200 use. same as a felonious quantity in Cali- What is more, about the same per- Mr. Chairman, this amendment offers fornia? centage support adopting similar no counseling on why the child was Mr. MCCOLLUM. Reclaiming my standards in their school. Nothing un- using drugs, no mental health assist- time, it is Mr. Rogan’s amendment, but derscores this crisis and our need for ance, just a year on the street. Now we my interpretation is that would be a definitive action more than the news know that there is a strong correlation felonious quantity depending upon the State or Federal law since he has made reported by the students in Columbine between crime and graduation and it in the alternative. But I would yield that I just mentioned. According to graduation rates. People who do not back to him to let him discuss it with their survey, more than three-fourths graduate from our school are much of the students said drugs were kept, the gentlewoman. more likely to be committing crimes. Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield used and sold in their schools. We owe With a 1-year suspension we make it myself such time as I may consume, students, parents and teachers decisive much less likely that they will ever get and I would invite the gentlewoman’s action to wipe out drugs in the schools. out of school. attention to page 2, lines 21 through 25 Our amendment will do for them just So, Mr. Chairman, we have a situa- of the amendment and going into page that. Zero tolerance for illegal drugs in tion where if this amendment passes 3. It says the term felonious quantity the schools, Mr. Chairman, will mean and allows children to be kicked out of means any quantity of an illegal drug just that, zero tolerance. school without any services, we will ac- possession of which quantity would Mr. Chairman, today we have an op- tually be increasing the crime rate. If under Federal, State or local law quan- portunity to act in a bipartisan way to we are serious about crime, Mr. Chair- tify for that. help build a safer America. I urge my man, we will defeat this amendment. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance colleagues to support this important Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time. amendment. of my time. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield minutes to the gentleman from Penn- of my time. myself such time as I may consume sylvania (Mr. GOODLING), the chairman The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman just in brief response to my friend from of the Committee on Education and the from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) seek rec- Virginia. Workforce. ognition to control the time in opposi- I am somewhat nonplused by the sug- Mr. GOODLING. Mr. Chairman, in tion? gestion that this bill is a bad idea be- 1994, when we reauthorized the Elemen- Mr. SCOTT. I do, Mr. Chairman. cause it will remove drug sellers from tary Secondary Education Act, I was a

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00105 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13181 member of the minority. A gentleman Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, let me danger to the health and safety of from suburbia in the majority at that start by commending the gentleman every child in that school and every time proposed an amendment that said from Pennsylvania (Mr. GOODLING) for teacher in that school, and that is not any student bringing a weapon to his consistency. It is not always that an appropriate environment for either school would be suspended for a year. we see such consistency in this House, parents, teachers or schoolchildren. First I asked him what he is doing in and I must say that I agree with him. Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, will the relationship to defining a weapon. He Now it strikes me that it is very dif- gentleman yield? then said: Make it a gun. I then re- ficult politically to vote against any Mr. ROGAN. I yield to the gentleman minded him that he also offered an bill or amendment that says in the from New York. amendment that said one can only sus- name of the war on drugs let us have Mr. NADLER. Is the gentleman pend a special ed student for 10 days, zero tolerance, let us expel someone aware that under this amendment we and because he was micromanaging from school, let us keep our children may have, depending on any local ordi- State and local responsibility for ele- safe. But the fact of the matter is that nance, and we do not know what every mentary secondary education, he was one can easily imagine situations local ordinance is in the country, a fe- also micromanaging it when he did the where that might not be the most in- lonious amount that may be a very 10 days, and now he puts the school dis- telligent thing to do. tiny amount and that may not have trict in a real situation. The lad comes If someone has a 13 or 14-year-old kid been enacted by that local community with a gun who is a special needs child who has some marijuana in school, he with the idea that possession of that along with his neighbor who is not a should be punished. But a year’s expul- small amount would result in the auto- special needs child who also has a gun, sion? Maybe, depending on the cir- matic expulsion of a student for a and one goes out for 10 days, and one cumstances. Has it happened before? year? goes out for a year. Has he had other delinquencies? Is this Mr. ROGAN. Again, Mr. Chairman, Of course what does that do? That the first offense? What is the story? reclaiming my time, I thank the gen- brings a lawsuit immediately to the This amendment makes no distinc- tleman for the inquiry. I think that ad- school. They are discriminating tions. This amendment says never dresses the question that the gen- against someone’s child, they are send- mind the wisdom or the familiarity of tleman raised a few moments ago, that ing someone’s child out for a year. the local school board or local school it is up to the local communities and The point I am trying to make is authorities with the situation. Throw to the State legislatures to define what that consistently I have said that it is this kid out on the street for a year, let is or is not a felonious amount. the responsibility, public education is him spend this time in the company of Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance the responsibility, of local and State drug dealers and crooks, but in any of my time. 1 government, which is exactly what my event not in school because Congress Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 ⁄2 philosophy and my party’s philosophy says so. minutes to the gentlewoman from has always been, and so I think we We always hear, especially from that North Carolina (Mrs. CLAYTON). Mrs. CLAYTON. Mr. Chairman, I really have to be consistent. side of the aisle, about local control. We are micromanaging State and This is quintessentially the time, the thank the gentleman for yielding this local government responsibility. It is situation for local control, and what time to me, and I think after the their responsibility to determine what this amendment says is if a local Littleton, Colorado, we all are asking the rules and the regulations should be, school board of the City of New York ourselves questions, what should we do and as I indicated, we have gotten our- or the City of San Francisco wants and how should we act to make sure we selves into real trouble by this micro- Federal money, it had better expel that reduce the act of crimes by our young managing, a 10-day suspension versus a kid for a year. Maybe it should, maybe people, and I think the gentleman cer- year’s expulsion. it should not, we should not. We should tainly has a well intending goal of hav- Now I want to make it clear that the not tell them. ing zero tolerance for violence and drug statute does not say that they must Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield dealing in the school. But to micro- provide an alternative education under myself such time as I may consume manage to achieve that is not only in- the 1994 statute. They may if they just in response to my colleague and consistent with his party’s view, but I wish. There is nothing in the statute friend from New York. I would simply would like to understand is the gen- that says they must provide an alter- suggest that this amendment is limited tleman suggesting that the California native education. Some States require to an individual that possesses a felo- school districts are not able to deter- an alternative education on a suspen- nious quantity of drugs in school or mine what they should do to have a sion or an expulsion. Nothing in the el- possesses a quantity sufficient for dis- zero tolerance for drugs? I mean could ementary secondary education statute tribution or sale. This amendment also the gentleman answer that for me? does that. allows local schools and school dis- Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, will the So I think we must be awfully care- tricts to maintain a case-by-case re- gentlewoman yield? Mrs. CLAYTON. I yield to the gen- ful. No matter how good the idea is and view. If there was some bizarre or un- tleman from California. how appealing the idea appears, we usual circumstance that warranted ap- Mr. ROGAN. I am more than happy have to be consistent. Elementary sec- propriate review, it would allow for a to yield to California or any other ondary education is the responsibility case-by-case review, and that would be State to decide on a statewide level primarily of the State and local gov- done with a local school district offi- what should be the appropriate tolera- ernment. cial, and it would not be done from tion level for possession of drugs or Now colleagues can argue and say, Washington. guns in their school. but wait, they are taking Federal dol- The question is simply this, as I see lars, and they do not have to take Fed- it, Mr. Chairman: Do we in Congress b 2215 eral dollars. Oh, one can argue that for have a right when appropriating Fed- Mrs. CLAYTON. Mr. Chairman, I am IDEA, for Individuals with Disabilities eral funds to schools to expect that thinking about what should be done to Education Act. But let me tell my col- those particular school districts are have zero tolerance is not necessarily leagues, if we do not provide that edu- going to maintain a safe environment just expulsion of kids from school. It cation, I will guarantee they will have for the children that are attending could be a variety of things. a lawsuit, whether it is mandated or those schools, and I would simply sub- Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, if the whether it is not mandated. So we can- mit that having children in school who gentlewoman will yield to me so that I not use that argument to cover us. are known to be in possession of felo- can finish answering her question. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 nious quantities of drugs, just as chil- Mrs. CLAYTON. Mr. Chairman, if the minutes to the gentleman from New dren who are known to be in possession gentleman could do it quickly, I would York (Mr. NADLER). of firearms, present a clear and present appreciate it.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00106 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13182 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Mr. ROGAN. I am not sure that urge them to revisit this issue and take ice that is held on the campus of a public comes with the nature of a politician, a look and search their hearts and school in order to honor the memory of any Mr. Chairman. make a determination, if they could person slain on that campus does not violate Mrs. CLAYTON. Mr. Chairman, if the the First Amendment to the Constitution of see their way clear to voting for an the United States, and that the design and gentleman cannot answer quickly, I amendment that will take a positive construction of any memorial which includes will answer it for him. step forward from removing dangerous religious symbols, motifs, or sayings that is Indeed, it is inconsistent with your drugs from the public schools. This is placed on the campus of a public school in party’s position, and I would think an opportunity to do it. I have sub- order to honor the memory of any person that California, like North Carolina, mitted the amendment for that pur- slain on that campus does not violate the could say what they would want to do pose. I ask for an aye vote on the First Amendment to the Constitution of the with a variety of issues, perhaps expul- amendment. United States. (b) LAWSUITS.—In any lawsuit claiming sion would be one. But to mandate that Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- that the type of memorial or memorial serv- I think is inconsistent, and I urge my ance of my time. ice described in subsection (a) violates the colleagues to vote against this well-in- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield Constitution of the United States— tended, but ill-conceived amendment. myself the balance of the time. (1) each party shall pay its own attorney’s PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Mr. Chairman, first of all, in terms of fee and costs, notwithstanding any other Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I have a what amount we are talking about, if provision of law; and parliamentary inquiry. it is any amount for sale or even small (2) the Attorney General is authorized to amounts of something like crack, it provide legal assistance to the school dis- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will trict or other government entity that is de- state it. could easily constitute a felony. Our fending the legality of such memorial serv- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, do we on community is not better off with stu- ice. this side have the right to close? dents roaming around with nothing to The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is do; no education and no services. These resolution 209, the gentleman from Col- students will not disappear; they are correct; the gentleman from Virginia orado (Mr. TANCREDO) and a Member has the right to close. going to be in the community and they opposed each will control 10 minutes. Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, may I in- are not going to be up to anything con- The Chair recognizes the gentleman quire of my colleague, does he have any structive. This amendment, if it does from Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO). further speakers, or is he prepared to anything, will increase the likelihood Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Chairman, I yield back? that our communities will be more yield myself such time as I may con- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I have dangerous and more crime-ridden. We sume. two speakers, including myself, to need to continue educational services Mr. Chairman, difficult as it is to be- close. for these students and kicking them lieve, there are people and organiza- Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I reserve out on the street will not do anything tions that would attempt to prevent the balance of my time. to reduce the crime rate. parents and students from seeking the Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 If we are going to be serious about comfort of their Creator when dealing seconds to the gentlewoman from Flor- crime, we need to defeat this amend- with the horror of a situation like the ida (Mrs. MEEK). ment. one that we experienced in my home- Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- town of Littleton, Colorado. man, I thank the gentleman for yield- ance of my time. The amendment I have sponsored ing me this time. The CHAIRMAN. All time for debate clarifies the position of the Congress The gentleman’s amendment should on this amendment has expired. with regard to these issues. It declares be killed, because he is submitting this The question is on the amendment that a fitting memorial on public amendment about felonious quantities, offered by the gentleman from Cali- school campuses may contain religious but it is not in line, there is no ref- fornia (Mr. ROGAN). speech without violating the Constitu- erence. When he made this, the school The question was taken; and the tion. It puts Congress on record with system did not know about this amend- Chairman announced that the noes ap- respect to the constitutionality of a ment. The people who were making peared to have it. permanent memorial or memorial serv- these laws back home did not know Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I demand ice that contains religious speech. The that this amendment would come up a recorded vote. amendment does not specify what kind saying to them, any felonious quan- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House of memorial that would be appropriate. tity. Because if they had known that, Resolution 209, further proceedings on That decision is for local schools and this amendment, this particular thing the amendment offered by the gen- communities. would not qualify. It is going to force tleman from California will be post- It states that it is fitting and proper them to change everything for this one poned. for a school to hold a memorial service amendment. It is now in order to consider Amend- when a student or teacher is killed on This amendment should not pass be- ment No. 24 printed in part A of House school grounds, and that it is fitting cause of that reference. report 106–186. and proper to include religious ref- Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield AMENDMENT NO. 24 OFFERED BY MR. TANCREDO erences, songs and readings in such a myself such time as I may consume to Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Chairman, I service. Prayer, reading of scripture or simply suggest to my colleague from offer an amendment. the performance of religious music can Florida that I would be very surprised The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- be included in a memorial service that if there was going to be a rush within ignate the amendment. is held on the campus of a public school the State legislatures of America to in- The text of the amendment is as fol- in order to honor the memory of any crease the definition of what is a felo- lows: person slain on campus. nious quantity of drugs to allow drug Part A amendment No. 24 offered by Mr. The amendment also allows for the dealers and drug users to remain in the TANCREDO: construction of a memorial that in- public schools. I do not think that is At the end of the bill, add the following cludes religious symbols or references what most school board members, I do (and make such technical and conforming to God on school property. not think that is what most principals changes as may be appropriate): Mr. Chairman, there are many exam- and teachers are looking for. SEC. 3. CONSTITUTIONALITY OF MEMORIAL ples in our government of proper and Mr. Chairman, I have no quarrel with SERVICES AND MEMORIALS AT PUB- constitutional references to religion. LIC SCHOOLS. the philosophical objections of my (a) FINDINGS.—The Congress of the United Chaplains of the Armed Forces conduct friends on the other side. That is some- States finds that the saying of a prayer, the memorial services, yet do not com- thing that we deal with in this Cham- reading of a scripture, or the performance of promise the establishment of religion ber on a regular basis. I would simply religious music, as part of a memorial serv- by the government. Both the House

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00107 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13183 and Senate conduct opening prayers would not do that. That is the point. believing that his or her religious lib- before each legislative day, and Arling- We do not discriminate and we do not erty and religious rights under the ton Cemetery has signs identifying it make minority religions feel tolerated. Constitution were violated, goes to as a Sacred Shrine and Hallowed They are equally American as anyone court, the court agrees, it goes up on Ground. else, minority or majority, and that is appeal, the appeals court agrees and The amendment specifically men- why the Constitution prohibits an es- the Constitution is upheld, he cannot tions that religious songs may be sung tablishment of religion, and the courts get his attorneys fees. at such memorials without violating have held that precisely what the spon- This is trying to say religious mi- the Constitution. Two Federal appeals sor of this amendment wants is an es- norities have no rights and certainly courts that have taken up the issue tablishment of religion, and Congress not the rights to prevail in court and both have ruled that school choirs may saying it is not so does not make it not have the losing party pay their attor- sing religious music. The Fifth Circuit so. That is the first problem with this neys fees. Only the popular side can get Court of Appeals held that it was con- amendment. its attorneys fees paid. It is a violation stitutional for a public high school The second problem with this amend- of fundamental American fairness and, choir to have ‘‘The Lord Bless You and ment is that the Congress cannot de- I submit, unconstitutional and unwor- Keep You’’ as a signature song. clare what the Constitution means and thy of this Congress. In the same way, erecting a memo- what violates the Constitution and Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance rial that contains religious references what it does not. We have accepted of my time. such as a quote from the scripture or a since 1803 the case of Marbury v. Madi- Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Chairman, I religious symbol from the deceased’s son; everybody learns it the first week yield myself such time as I may con- religious tradition would not violate in constitutional law in law school or sume. There are a number of differences the Establishment Clause of the Con- college. It is that the Supreme Court that exist in this particular amend- stitution. interprets the Constitution and says ment and what it refers to in terms of This is not the equivalent of a daily what the Constitution means and it is the kind of religious liberty that it is school prayer. A memorial service is a not the province of Congress. We deter- designed to allow, or at least put the very specific response to an unusual mine what the law is. We write the law, Congress on record that supports a par- and regrettable circumstance. but we do not find whether the law vio- ticular expression of religious freedom. In either case, if a lawsuit is brought lates the Constitution. The gentleman indicates that there forth, parties are required to pay their We should endeavor in making laws have been a number of cases already own legal fees and costs, and the Attor- to try to not make laws that con- heard that have been decided against ney General is authorized to provide travene the Constitution, but it is the the expression of religious points of legal assistance to defenders. job of the courts, not our job, to deter- view in schools. That is true, but the Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance mine what does violate the Constitu- significant difference here is that in of my time. tion. each one of the court cases that have The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman And thank God we have a judiciary come down on that side of the issue, from New York (Mr. NADLER) seek to to protect the individual rights of they have talked about the fact that control the time in opposition to the Americans. That is why we have a Bill there is a captive audience in a par- amendment? of Rights. The judiciary interprets the ticular location in a classroom; and if Mr. NADLER. Yes, I do, Mr. Chair- Bill of Rights and protects the indi- that is the case, if this audience is held man. vidual rights of even unpopular people, captive by the environment, by the sit- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman and it is not the business of this Con- uation in which they are placed, that it from New York (Mr. NADLER) is recog- gress to declare that something does or is indeed unconstitutional to advance nized for 10 minutes. does not violate the Constitution and Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield some sort of religious preference. try to tell the Supreme Court you are But that is not the case with any- myself such time as I may consume. wrong. thing that we are talking about here in Mr. Chairman, there are three things The third problem is with the attor- terms of a memorial or a memorial wrong with this amendment. First, it neys fees provision of this bill. This service. There is no one that is there is substantively wrong and it is obnox- amendment says that any lawsuit because they have to be there. No one ious to the spirit and the letter of the claiming that this type of a memorial is forced by any sort of law to partici- first amendment of the religious free- or memorial service violates the Con- pate. It is simply an expression of a re- dom provision of the Constitution. stitution, each party shall pay its own ligious preference, a religious point of The Congress of the United States attorneys fees and costs, notwith- view, a degree of religiosity that exists finds that the saying of a prayer or the standing any other provision of law, in a community and has every right to placing of a memorial which includes and the Attorney General is authorized be expressed. religious symbols and motifs on the to provide legal assistance to the There is nothing in the Constitution, campus of a public school to honor the school district. it seems to me, or in the first amend- So because the author of this amend- memory of someone who was slain does ment that suggests that that expres- ment wants this type of service, wants not violate the first amendment. sion should be hampered. All this Well, the first problem is, it may this type of religious prayer or memo- amendment does is to put the Congress very well violate the first amendment. rial, if someone thinks it is unconstitu- on record that it supports that par- The courts have held that organized tional, if someone thinks his or her or ticular point of view. prayer in a school or at a commence- someone in that community thinks his ment or in a service at a school does or her religious community has been b 2230 violate the first amendment, and cer- violated and he goes to court to sue the In terms of it making a claim that tainly the placing of a religious symbol school district, the Attorney General is school boards and school districts will which may offend some people, some authorized to support the school dis- automatically reject certain ‘‘minor- future students, maybe even some cur- trict, the Attorney General thinks it is ity’’ religions, whatever that might be, rent students or some future teachers. unconstitutional, he is not authorized I do not know where there is proof of Imagine if there were a Muslim symbol by the terms of this amendment to op- that particular statement. I do not that may be offensive to Christians or pose the school district to represent know exactly even what the definition a Jewish symbol or Christian symbol the plaintiff or to come in on the side of ‘‘minority religions’’ might be, but offensive to others or some minority of the plaintiff, and not withstanding we leave that, of course, up to school religion. Of course the minority reli- any other provision of law, each party boards and school districts. gion would not get its symbol placed should pay its own attorneys fees. So Mr. Chairman, there is a right, or there because the local school board even if the plaintiff, thinking that his, there is nothing in this amendment

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00108 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13184 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 that restricts anyone from taking this more precious to someone, if we are gentleman from Indiana (Mr. thing to court. Of course, it does, as talking about their memory, than talk- HOSTETTLER). my colleague indicates, suggest that if ing about their beliefs, the things for Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. Chairman, I one loses, one has to pay their own which they were willing to live and the rise to simply make a clarification of court costs. Again, I do not see any- things for which they were willing to some statements that were made ear- thing really wrong with that. die? lier. That is that the Congress of the In general, this is not really the kind Yes, we know about Cassie Bernall, United States does not have the au- of issue that should spark a debate, it who was asked, do you believe in God; thority to speak on the constitu- seems to me, over the essence of the yes, and because of that she was killed. tionality of issues, but rather that First Amendment, because it is pat- For those who do not want the memory must be left in the hands of the Su- ently clear, at least to me, that we are of the religious beliefs to be commemo- preme Court. not doing anything in this amendment rated at the memorial that they leave I would simply remind my colleagues that forces anyone to accept one sort behind, I invite them to go across the of the oath of office that each Member of religious ideology. Again, the Con- Potomac River to Arlington National takes. That is, that I, name of Member, stitution guarantees the freedom of re- Cemetery, where Members will find do solemnly swear or affirm that I will ligion, of religion, to express one’s reli- row upon row upon row of religious support and defend the Constitution of gious ideas. symbols chosen by people who were the United States against all enemies, In a situation like we faced in Colo- gone to mark their graves. Some may foreign and domestic; that I will bear rado, I must tell the Members that be crosses, most are, and some may be true faith and allegiance to the same; without that ability to express that emblems of another faith, such as stars that I take this obligation freely, with- particular faith, I do not know where of David. out any mental reservation or purpose any of us would be. And there were peo- But to say that when one is gone, the of evasion, and that I will well and ple and organizations that really ar- memory of one’s faith must be gone, faithfully discharge the duties of the gued against that sort of expression. too, is not the American way. I urge office on which I am about to enter, so I have a letter here that was written Members to support this amendment. help me God. by a parent of one of the individuals Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield At no time here does this say that 1 who was killed in Columbine, a young 1 ⁄2 minutes to the gentlewoman from Members of Congress will in fact sup- lady by the name of Cassie Bernall. Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). port and defend the Constitution ac- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. This was written by her father, Brad cording to what the United States Su- Chairman, I thank the gentleman for Bernall, in support of this amendment preme Court or any other Federal yielding time to me. when a similar amendment was offered court says. in the Senate by my colleague, Senator Mr. Chairman, my colleague who just spoke on the floor of the House gave us Secondly, the issue has been brought ALLARD. up with regard to the 1803 decision of He said, ‘‘My wife, Misty, and I both a passionate plea. As a mother, I ac- Marbury vs. Madison, but as Lewis believe any Columbine incident memo- knowledge that no one can speak to Fisher, senior specialist in separation rial should memorialize each indi- the pain of the parents who have lost a of powers at the Congressional Re- vidual in a personal way. Everyone child or the tragedy of Columbine in search Service reminds us, Chief Jus- knows, thanks to a good job by the Littleton, Colorado. I appreciate my tice Marshall’s decision in Marbury media, that Cassie was a very strong good friend, the gentleman from Colo- represents what many regard as the de- Christian. To leave this facet of her rado (Mr. TANCREDO) in his attempt to finitive basis for judicial review over persona out would be to mis-memori- bring honor to that memory. congressional and presidential actions, alize her and others.’’ It is now 10:35 p.m. at night, and we but Marshall’s opinion stands for a I think the statement is accurate, are now seeking to amend the Con- much more modest claim. and I believe that this Congress should stitution and to change the rights of In fact, the specialist goes on to say go on record in support of it. Americans throughout this land who Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance have come to understand that the First that ‘‘Marshall and the Supreme Court of my time. Amendment indicates that Congress did not require Jefferson to actually Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield will make no law respecting the estab- seat the magistrate in question, not be- 30 seconds to the gentleman from Vir- lishment of religion. cause of any constitutional problems, ginia (Mr. SCOTT), the distinguished I am unsure of the intent of this ini- but because they simply realized that ranking minority member of the sub- tiative, inasmuch as communities can Jefferson and Madison would simply committee. come together and express themselves disregard their writ.’’ Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, if this and their religious beliefs in any way As Chief Justice Warren Burger amendment becomes law, those who they so desire. It is established, how- noted, the court could stand hard blows complain of violations of their free ex- ever, that we cannot make a religious but not ridicule, and the ale houses ercise rights under the Constitution be- standard publicly by the government. would rock with hilarious laughter had cause the public authorities excluded So I would say to the gentleman from Marshall issued a mandamus that the religious observances, they could get Colorado, it would be nice if we could Jefferson administration ignored. their attorney’s fees paid, but those deliberate and begin to refine his de- Please support the gentleman’s amend- who are complaining about excessive sires as it relates to giving honor to ment. injection of religion would not have the the deceased, but to amend the Con- Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield same kinds of rights. stitution and to extinguish rights of 11⁄2 minutes to the gentlewoman from Mr. Chairman, this amendment has those who may have opposition to the California (Ms. WATERS). significant constitutional implications. expression of a particular religion is Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I thank It needs deliberation and should not be unconstitutional. the gentleman for yielding time to me. an afterthought on a juvenile justice This amendment will have a chilling Mr. Chairman, I am as religious as bill. I would hope it would be defeated. effect on claims that could be filed to anyone else, so I do not take a back Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Chairman, I challenge the constitutionality of reli- seat to anyone when we talk about re- yield 1 minute to my colleague, the gious displays or activities in public ligion. But I do stand up for the Con- gentleman from Oklahoma (Mr. schools. Let us do the right thing, stitution. It is amazing what I have ISTOOK). maintain the sanctity of the Constitu- heard here today, the assault on the Mr. ISTOOK. Mr. Chairman, I thank tion, respect those who are deceased, Constitution, on First Amendment the gentleman from Colorado for yield- and not amend this Constitution late rights, on freedom of religion; the basic ing time to me. into the night on a juvenile crime bill. First Amendment rights, the 10 amend- Mr. Chairman, I very much appre- Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Chairman, I ments to the Constitution that hold ciate the gentleman’s effort. What is yield 11⁄2 minutes to my colleague, the this democracy in good stead.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00109 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13185 The gentleman can talk about the pus, government employees? Who de- amendment. For these reasons, espe- Constitution all he wants, but he can- cides what those symbols can be, which cially the last one, this amendment of- not amend it on this floor tonight, on religions are okay? Are wiccan symbols fends the Constitution, offends the Bill this piece of legislation. Even the most okay? How about satanic symbols? of Rights, offends religious liberty and right-wing of Supreme Court Justices This does not do respect to our Con- ought to be defeated. will not allow what the gentleman is stitution and Bill of Rights, no matter Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- trying to do. This speaks to the heart how well-intended the author is. ance of my time. of religious freedom. Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Chairman, I The CHAIRMAN. The question is on No, we do not want to intrude on yield 30 seconds to the gentleman from the amendment offered by the gen- anybody’s rights by having religious Indiana (Mr. HOSTETTLER). tleman from Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO). memorials and symbols on our schools. Mr. HOSTETTLER. With all due re- The question was taken; and the The gentleman would not like it if spect to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Chairman announced that the ayes ap- someone denigrated his religion or EDWARDS) regarding Mr. Madison and peared to have it. tried to dominate school property with Mr. Jefferson, Mr. Jefferson was actu- Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I de- their religion. The gentleman can ally no party to the United States Con- mand a recorded vote. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House speak all he wants to tonight on this stitution nor the ratification of the Resolution 209, further proceedings on crime bill, and the gentleman can as- Bill of Rights, because he was in serv- the amendment offered by the gen- sault the Constitution if the gentleman ice in France at the time. tleman from Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO) would like, but I guarantee Members, But with regard to what the gen- will be postponed. even if the majority of this Congress tleman said about Article III of the It is now in order to consider amend- votes for religious symbols on memo- Constitution, actually it says nothing ment No. 25 printed in Part A of House rials any time, anyplace, anywhere, with regard to the constitutionality Report 106–186. they are going to lose in the Supreme itself. In fact, Chief Justice John Jay, It is now in order to consider amend- Court, because no matter how right- the original Supreme Court Justice, re- ment No. 26 printed in part A of House wing those Justices are, they respect linquished his Chief Justiceship be- Report 106–186. the Constitution. They know the Con- cause he did not believe the Supreme AMENDMENT NO. 26 OFFERED BY MR. DE MINT stitution, and they are going to hold Court would actually carry the weight Mr. DEMINT. Mr. Chairman, I offer that Constitution up and keep it from of the debate with regard to separation an amendment. being defied and dismantled by the of powers and the importance of the The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- likes of Members who do not under- issue of the Supreme Court and the ju- ignate the amendment. stand what a democracy is all about. dicial system. The text of the amendment is as fol- Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Chairman, I lows: 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from yield myself such time as I may con- Part A amendment No. 26 offered by Mr. Texas (Mr. EDWARDS). sume. DEMINT: Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Chairman, de- The gentlewoman from California Add at the end the following: spite the good intentions of the gen- (Ms. WATERS) said something with TITLE l—LIMITATION ON RECOVERY OF tleman from Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO) which I can agree. She referenced the ATTORNEYS FEES IN CERTAIN CASES in offering this amendment, I cannot first amendment, and she said that it SEC. l. LIMITATION ON RECOVERY OF ATTOR- believe at 10:30 in the evening, with guarantees freedom of religion, free- NEYS FEES IN CERTAIN CASES. more staff members than Members on Section 722(b) of the Revised Statutes of dom of religion. the United States (42 U.S.C. 1988(b)) is the floor of the House, the gentleman What does that mean? How much amended— from Indiana just rewrote the Con- more clear could it have been put: (1) by striking ‘‘In’’ and inserting ‘‘Except stitution of the United States. Freedom to express one’s own religious as otherwise provided in this subsection, in’’; I would suggest that Article III, Sec- ideas, freedom to practice one’s reli- (2) by striking ‘‘, except that’’ and insert- tion 1 and Section 2 are very clear, gion. ing ‘‘. However,’’; and that this body, this House, has no right (3) by adding at the end the fol- 2245 to declare any action or law constitu- b lowing:‘‘Attorneys’ fees under this section tional or unconstitutional. If the gen- It is a statement so clear that it is may not be allowed in any action claiming difficult for me to understand how peo- that a public school or its agent violates the tleman can show me where in this Con- constitutional prohibition against the estab- stitution right now we have the au- ple can put obstacles in the way of that lishment of religion by permitting, facili- thority to declare something as con- freedom, and yet that is exactly what tating, or accommodating a student’s reli- stitutional or unconstitutional, I will has been done. Even in Colorado, that gious expression.’’. support this amendment. But I am con- is what has been suggested should be The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House fident it does not. We cannot rewrite done in cases where the most horrific Resolution 209, the gentleman from 200 years of history in 5-minute debates tragedies have occurred, that we South Carolina (Mr. DEMINT) and a on the floor of the House. should put obstacles in the way of peo- Member opposed each will control 10 Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that ple expressing their own religious pref- minutes. Mr. Madison and Mr. Jefferson spent 10 erence and seek God’s help. The Chair recognizes the gentleman years debating the important prin- This amendment hopes to change from South Carolina (Mr. DeMINT). ciples of the separation of church and that experience. Mr. DEMINT. Mr. Chairman, I yield State because they realized how funda- Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. mental it was to the law of this land. myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, the purpose of my Yet, late at night, with so few Mem- Mr. Chairman, the memory of the freedom of expression in schools bers on this floor, we are debating that victims’ religious beliefs can certainly amendment is to ensure that a stu- same principle, given not 10 years, not be commemorated and eulogized with- dent’s First Amendment right to free- 10 months, not 10 weeks, not even 10 out offending the Constitution. dom of religious expression is pro- hours of committee hearings, but 10 The prayer can be said at a memorial tected. This amendment is important minutes per side to debate this funda- on school property after school hours if to school safety, because what we value mental issue. That kind of short- attendance is voluntary but not if at- and believe, as children and adults, di- shrifting of the Constitution and the tendance is compulsory. rectly impacts how we act. It is, there- Bill of Rights and the first 16 words of The legal fees clause of this amend- fore, essential that students not be dis- the Bill’s amendments leaves numerous ment is clearly aimed at biasing the couraged from participating in posi- unanswered questions, not the least of legal systems against people with a dif- tive, faith-based activities or exer- which are who decides how many me- ferent view of the First Amendment cising their freedom of religious ex- morials can be on a public school cam- than that held by the sponsor of this pression.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00110 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.003 H16JN9 13186 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 As many of us know, public schools the House floor by unanimous consent would commandeer the power of the are being intimidated into suppressing and passed on a voice vote. State to promote mere particular reli- religious expression by the threat of Let me quote a portion of the ration- gious views. Where those views are the costly litigation. This litigation often ale provided by the Senate Committee views of the majority, that may be po- arises from a confusion between a on the Judiciary report on the bill. The litically popular but it is not a stand in school allowing religious expression by risk to judges of burdensome litigation defense of religious liberty. a student, which is protected, and a creates a chilling effect that threatens Remember, we are not talking here, school sanctioning and endorsing reli- judicial independence and may impair despite what the sponsor of the amend- gion, which violates the establishment day-to-day decisions of the judiciary in ment said, about frivolous lawsuits. We clause. close or controversial cases. The same are talking about victorious lawsuits, Only a few weeks ago, with gradua- risk of burdensome litigation is threat- lawsuits which persuaded the courts tion exercises having been completed ening our public schools and more. It is that they were right, that the plain- around the country, there were valedic- threatening the First Amendment tiff’s constitutional rights were vio- torians and class presidents who were rights of our students. lated by the local government. The actually physically removed from the I urge my colleagues to support this judge said, they were right and now stage, their speech censored, not be- reasonable and well-crafted amend- this amendment says, but one cannot cause it contained vulgarity or obscen- ment. get their attorney’s fees anyway; only ity but because it contained constitu- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance the people who agree with the sponsor tionally protected, student- initiated of my time. or with the local majority can get their religious expression. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman attorney’s fees. This has taken place in both Cali- from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) seek to con- This is not right. It is an attempt to fornia and Minnesota this year. The In- trol the time in opposition? bias the courts, to bias the courts fi- diana Civil Liberties Union wrote a let- Mr. SCOTT. I do, Mr. Chairman. nancially against people who would sue ter threatening to sue any high school The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman on the basis of the establishment or college in the State if they allowed from Virginia is recognized for 10 min- clause, and frankly the courts ought to prayer at graduation ceremonies. The utes. be neutral. They ought to interpret the letter said, you will pay your own and Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 21⁄2 Constitution, and if someone’s rights our attorney’s fees, an amount that minutes to the gentleman from New are violated and they win that fact in could run as high as $250,000. York (Mr. NADLER). court, if the law provides for attorney’s How can schools take this risk? It is Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, this fees, then they ought to get it. We much easier just to tell the students amendment has a very clear and per- should not bias the case one way or the not to pray than to risk spending this nicious purpose. Put simply, if one other, as this amendment would try to amount of money. agrees with the sponsor of this amend- do, to stifle dissent and to stifle minor- In cases from Michigan to Maryland ment on the role government should ity religious views. to Indiana, so-called civil liberties play in religion and the government Again, this amendment is obnoxious groups have threatened principals and violates their rights, they get their day to the First Amendment and ought to school boards with lawsuits because of in court and if one wins the govern- be defeated. legitimate student religious expres- ment that violated their rights can be Mr. DEMINT. Mr. Chairman, I yield sion. This is happening because such ordered to pay their attorney’s fees, 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from In- cases were made exempt by Congress but if someone disagrees with the spon- diana (Mr. HOSTETTLER). from the common legal practice of sor’s views and the government vio- Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. Chairman, I each side paying its own attorney’s lates their rights and they win their am intrigued by the comments of the cost. Schools that are accused must case, that is to say a court finds that earlier gentleman saying that he was face the additional threat, if they lose, their constitutional rights are vio- deadly opposed to the fact that the that they must also pay the other lated, then the court may not under United States Congress should not im- side’s legal fees. This provides a per- any circumstances order the local au- pose its will on local authorities but it verse incentive for schools to silence thorities to pay attorney’s fees. is quite well enough for the United the speech of students rather than to It does not matter how extreme the States Supreme Court to do that. face a punitive lawsuit. violation of one’s rights. It does not Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong sup- Congress created the one side loser matter how much it costs to protect port of the DeMint amendment. It is pays exception to the normal practice one’s rights in court. It does not mat- time that America stop the making of in order to encourage the defense of ter how much the local authorities constitutional law by extortion. Let civil liberties. However, this exception drag their feet or drag down the case to me give an example. In 1992 the Su- is now being used as a weapon to sup- make it more costly or burdensome for preme Court in Lee v. Wiseman de- press these very liberties. The current someone. None of that matters. A per- cided, wrongly I believe, that local incentive is for schools to silence stu- son has to pay the costs and pay a dear graduation prayer conducted by dent religious expression rather than price if one disagrees with the sponsor schools was unconstitutional. fight for student constitutional rights. of this amendment. In March of 1993, the Indiana Civil My amendment simply corrects the There is only one effect this amend- Liberties Union wrote to educators in mistake and returns such cases to the ment will have, and that is to silence Indiana threatening a lawsuit should normal practice of each side paying its dissent against the local majority. Per- the school have any type of prayer at own fees. Such cases should be decided haps some people like that idea. Per- graduation. Let me quote from that on the merits, on a level playing field, haps it is politically popular to stick it letter: not by threats and bullying. to religious minorities, but that is not We know that a few school boards are try- Mr. Chairman, Congress has set a what this country is supposed to be ing to find a way around the Supreme Court clear precedent for this amendment. In about. Perhaps the proponents of this ruling. If you decide to hold graduation pray- 1996, Congress passed and the President amendment should go back to school er anyway, as a matter of principle, four signed the Federal Courts Improve- and do a little homework on the First things will probably happen. We will sue ment Act. This bill included a provi- Amendment. both the school corporation and any individ- sion that exempted certain cases Both of the religion clauses of the uals who approved and authorized gradua- brought against judicial officers from First Amendment were put there to tion prayers. We will win. The Supreme Court has already decided the issue. You will the attorney’s fees requirement. It protect religious freedom. The estab- pay your own and our attorney’s fees, an amended the identical section I am lishment clause, as unpopular as it is amount that could run as high as a quarter amending. The bill passed the Senate in some circles, protects all of our of a million dollars. Your insurance will not by unanimous consent, was brought to rights to religious liberty to those who cover it because it is a deliberate violation

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00111 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13187 of law so the money will come directly from way around the FEC, not the Constitu- retary of State and James Madison as property taxes. tion. They found a way to help people a Member of Congress talked to each That is not what our founders in- with their campaigns. other. tended. It was wrong in 1976 to give an The gentleman from Colorado (Mr. It was the gentleman’s statement, incentive for coercing public officials TANCREDO) offered an amendment, and, again, I understand the gentleman to act in opposition to the wishes of thanks to the Committee on Rules, and wanted to change the subject, he said, their constituents. It is right to put it included the very same provision of among his many errors, that Thomas some sanity back into this legal proc- this amendment, but this gentleman Jefferson was in France during the ess. Constitutional law should be by de- also wanted to offer it. ratification of the Bill of Rights; and liberation and not extortion. So what is two amendments that say he was wrong by about 4,000 miles Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 the same thing in a bill that is kind of which, by his standard, is not so bad. minutes to the gentleman from Massa- crazy anyway? Mr. DEMINT. Mr. Chairman, I yield chusetts (Mr. FRANK). Now, of course, if we had a func- such time as he may consume to the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. tioning Committee on the Judiciary gentleman from Oklahoma (Mr. Chairman, first I want to say that I am which could contemplate these issues, ISTOOK). sorry that the gentleman from Colo- we would not have this kind of scram- Mr. ISTOOK. Mr. Chairman, I just rado (Mr. TANCREDO) decided not to ble. want to be clear for the RECORD, is it offer the second amendment he had a That is the final point. Should we or the intent of the gentleman from right to offer. I think he must have re- should we not have a situation where South Carolina (Mr. DEMINT) that his alized that offering that amendment, public officials deliberately violate the amendment, when he uses the term which he had put in there, to circulate Constitution to have to pay in a law- ‘‘students’ religious expression,’’ that the pamphlet put out by the Depart- suit? Well, maybe they should be al- the term ‘‘students’ religious expres- ment of Education on religious rights lowed not to have to do that, but why sion’’ includes student prayer? would have undercut much of the argu- pick and choose? Mr. DEMINT. Yes, Mr. Chairman. ment we get from the other side, be- The Republican Party controls the Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 minutes to cause we were eagerly looking forward Committee on the Judiciary. If the the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. to supporting his amendment. Some- gentleman thinks it is wrong that we PITTS). body probably tipped him off and that have a situation where public officials Mr. PITTS. Mr. Chairman, I rise to- is why he decided to not to offer it, be- who have violated the Constitution night in support of the students whose cause that pamphlet from the U.S. De- have to pay the legal fees of those first amendment right to religious partment of Education makes clear whose constitutional rights they vio- freedom is being suppressed because his how broad the right of children is in lated, and were so found by the Su- or her school is intimidated by the the schools to engage in appropriate re- preme Court, why did not the gen- threat of a costly lawsuit. I support the DeMint amendment for ligious exercise within the framework tleman have a hearing, why did not the children like first-grader Zachary Hood of the Constitution. So they thought gentleman have a subcommittee mark- who was told by his teacher that he better of it and they must have read up, all these exotic things we used to could read his favorite story to his the pamphlet and realized that it have? strengthens the case of the other side. This is a politically constructive class. Zachary was extremely excited about Now I did also want to bring poor process that is putting together a Rube the chance to read to his class, and he Thomas Jefferson back from France, to Goldberg of a bill. which he was exiled by the gentleman Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. Chairman, chose Jacob and Esau, a story about from Indiana (Mr. HOSTETTLER), while will the gentleman yield? two brothers who quarrel and then he was Secretary of State. The gen- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I yield make up. The story never even men- tleman from Indiana (Mr. HOSTETTLER) to the gentleman from Indiana, to tions God. However, because it is from said Thomas Jefferson had nothing to bring Thomas Jefferson back. the Bible, the teacher would not allow do with the ratification of the Bill of Zachary to read. 2300 Rights because he was serving in b What kind of society do we live in France. Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. Chairman, that allows the Columbine killers to If he was serving in France during will the gentleman from Massachusetts produce a class video of themselves in that period, he was serving as Sec- tell me where the Secretary of State trench coats gunning down athletes in retary of State because he was not the was serving as a Member of the House a school hallway, yet young Zachary is ambassador to France while he was of Representatives or a Member of the not allowed to read a story about two Secretary of State and that is when Senate while the amendments to the brothers, which happens to be from the they did the Bill of Rights. So the gen- Constitution were being offered? Bible, to his class? tleman’s history is not much not bet- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. A member of our own staff shared ter than his constitutional law. His Chairman, reclaiming my time, the with me her experience a few years ago constitutional law seems to misunder- gentleman from Indiana said he was in as a 10th grade student. She was as- stand the principle. Yes, we take an France. The gentleman from Indiana signed to write a fictional account of oath that we are bound by the Con- needs a lot of explaining. He said that an historical figure. Horror of all hor- stitution. We should not transgress it. Thomas Jefferson was in France during rors, she chose Jesus Christ as her sub- I wish that oath meant more to people the ratification of the Bill of Rights. ject. While the English teacher admit- around here sometimes. He was not in France during the ratifi- tedly could not find one single gram- But when there is a decision by the cation of the Bill of Rights. matical error in the entire 17-page Supreme Court, it is binding on us. The Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. Chairman, he paper, she claimed she had to fail this gentleman from Indiana (Mr. was in France. student for choosing Jesus as her his- HOSTETTLER) appears to want to dis- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. torical figure. regard that. A Supreme Court opinion Chairman, he had, in fact, been serving For many students, faith is an essen- is binding. as the Secretary of State. I did not say tial part of who they are. Why are we Finally, I want to note that the au- he was in the House or the Senate. I asking them to leave this part of them- thor of this amendment does not ap- was contradicting the statement of the selves outside the door to the school? pear to have much faith in the amend- gentleman from Indiana that he had Why? Because schools are bullied by ment before him of the gentleman from nothing to do with the ratification of big organizations which are sup- Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO). It does ex- the Bill of Rights because he was in pressing student religious expression at actly the same thing. France. taxpayer expense. Now apparently what we have here is As a matter of fact, Thomas Jeffer- I urge my colleagues to support the the Republican leadership has found a son here in the United States as Sec- DeMint amendment.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00112 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13188 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 is the fear, it is the intimidation. It ap- rect that the current law only allows seconds to the gentleman from New pears to me that if we want to be fair the plaintiff to recover fees, but does York (Mr. NADLER). about this, we will level the playing not permit the school district which is Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I would field so everybody has an equal oppor- defending the suit to make a recovery simply like to observe that all of the tunity. of legal fees? preceding discussion of the preceding Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- speaker and much of the discussion of minute to the gentlewoman from Ohio ing my time, that is exactly right. But the preceding speakers on the other (Mrs. JONES). Congress does not decree that one can side is irrelevant to this amendment. Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I get one’s attorneys fees if one sues This amendment, unlike the amend- rise in opposition to the amendment of under a premise that the gentleman ment of the gentleman from Colorado the gentleman from South Carolina from South Carolina (Mr. DEMINT) (Mr. TANCREDO), does not deal with (Mr. DEMINT), my freshman colleague agrees with. But if one sues on some- what happened in Columbine, does not this evening. thing he disagrees with, one cannot get deal with memorial services. It is even I did not want to miss this golden op- one’s attorneys fees. It does not say more brazen. All it says is that some- portunity. See, this is a golden oppor- that. one who complains in court that his tunity for the gentleman’s side of the b 2310 constitutional rights were violated on aisle to encourage litigation. As we Mr. Chairman, this kind of amend- the establishment of religion clause talk about tort reform, as we talk ment has significant constitutional im- dealing with school prayer, if he wins about not lifting the caps to allow peo- plications. We ought not be taking it that suit, cannot have his legal fees ple to litigate about tort issues, we up as an after-thought to a juvenile paid for. want to give people the opportunity to justice bill that started out as a non- So all it says on one side of the issue, go into court to litigate something controversial, bipartisan, constructive, one can have one’s legal fees paid for; that the Supreme Court has already de- research-based bill. Yet here we are, on the other, one cannot. It is simply cided. Usually, when we want to go after 11 o’clock at night, talking about biasing the courts, and, therefore, it is into court and decide an issue, it is an complex constitutional issues, trying against the Constitution. issue that has not already been liti- to make law, and trying to make law Mr. DEMINT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 gated by the Supreme Court. in an unprecedented fashion, where we minutes to the gentleman from Penn- This is a golden opportunity this get attorneys fees if we agree with the sylvania (Mr. GOODLING). evening for us to waste our time in- gentleman from South Carolina but we Mr. GOODLING. Mr. Chairman, I rise stead of getting on to the issues that do not get attorneys fees if we do not. in strong support of the amendment, we ought to be getting on to this Mr. DEMINT. Mr. Chairman, will the and I want to continue along what the evening, which are dealing with gun gentleman yield? gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. control, dealing with gun safety. Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentleman PITTS) talked about. So, Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposi- from South Carolina. This first grader was promised, be- tion to the motion, because it is a Mr. DEMINT. Mr. Chairman, just a cause of the ability to read well and be- waste of time to discuss the issue. I am quick clarification. Congress created cause the child worked hard, that he a religious person just like anyone else, this exemption, and it is certainly could read as a reward whatever story but I learned about God, Jesus Christ within our right to change it. he wished to read. Now, there is no at Bethany Baptist Church, 10518 This is an exemption. All we are ask- question in my mind that the teacher Hampton Avenue, through the support ing for is a level playing field when two committed two serious problems. First of my minister and my mother; and parties go to court. Right now, it is set of all, she reneged on her promise. Sec- every one else can do the same. up that if the schools lose, they pay ondly, she missed a golden opportunity Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield both. If they win, they pay their own. to have them discuss what it means to myself 21⁄2 minutes, the balance of the There is no way for them to win. They take advantage of someone who is dis- time. are under a threat that is too big a advantaged. She had a golden oppor- Mr. Chairman, I think this discussion risk. We just want it to be the standard tunity to talk about greed and have has pointed out the need for the normal practice. them discuss greed. amendment that we skipped. The gen- The CHAIRMAN. Time of the gen- All of these thing could have been tleman from Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO) tleman from Virginia has expired. All done. There is no question in my mind had an amendment that would have re- time for debate on this amendment has that she could have done it, and any quired parents to be notified of the expired. court would have said that was per- availability of the Education Depart- The question is on the amendment fectly all right, even if he included the ment’s brochure, ‘‘Religious Expression offered by the gentleman from South word ‘‘Bible’’ and the word ‘‘God,’’ in Public Schools: A Statement of Carolina (Mr. DEMINT). which he did not. Principles.’’ Had that been taken up, The question was taken; and the But it is the fear, it is the fear of the that information would have gone out, Chairman announced that the ayes ap- school district, not only must they pay and people would know what they can peared to have it. if they lose for their own expenses, do and what they cannot do. RECORDED VOTE they must pay for the other expenses. This amendment right now does not Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I demand They do not have any money for books. require everyone to pay his own legal a recorded vote. They do not have any money for build- fees. It requires that those who agree The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House ings. They do not have any money for with the gentleman from South Caro- Resolution 209, further proceedings on anything because they are constantly lina (Mr. DEMINT) can get their attor- the amendment offered by the gen- in court. With the Supreme Court rul- ney fees paid; but if one disagrees with tleman from South Carolina (Mr. ing of a week or 2 ago, they will be in the issue, then one cannot. DEMINT) will be postponed. court all the time. Mr. ISTOOK. Mr. Chairman, will the SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE So let us level the playing field. Ei- gentleman yield? OF THE WHOLE ther both sides pay each other, or one Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House side pays theirs, the other pay side from Oklahoma. Resolution 209, proceedings will now pays theirs, but do not make it double Mr. ISTOOK. Mr. Chairman, I know resume on those amendments on which indemnity for them. of no provision in the current law that further proceedings were postponed in Again, she missed a golden oppor- would allow the school district to re- the following order: Amendment No. 21 tunity. I am sure the courts would cover attorneys fees from a plaintiff offered by the gentleman from Florida have said she was perfectly in her right who sued them challenging religious (Mr. STEARNS); amendment No. 22 of- to allow the child to read that. But it expression by the student. Is it not cor- fered by the gentleman from Iowa (Mr.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00113 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13189

LATHAM); amendment No. 23 offered by Lewis (KY) Pickett Smith (TX) NOT VOTING—7 Linder Pitts Smith (WA) the gentleman from California (Mr. Brown (CA) Houghton Weiner Lipinski Pombo Snyder Dicks Martinez ROGAN); amendment No. 24 offered by LoBiondo Pomeroy Souder Gephardt Thomas the gentleman from Colorado (Mr. Lowey Porter Spence TANCREDO); and amendment No. 26 of- Lucas (KY) Portman Spratt b 2333 fered by the gentleman from South Lucas (OK) Price (NC) Stabenow Maloney (CT) Pryce (OH) Stearns Ms. PELOSI and Mr. CROWLEY Carolina (Mr. DEMINT). Manzullo Quinn Stenholm changed their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Mascara Radanovich The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes Stump Mr. GANSKE, Mr. FORD, Mrs. JOHN- the time for any electronic vote after McCarthy (NY) Rahall Sununu McCollum Ramstad SON of Connecticut, Mr. PASCRELL, the first vote in this series. Sweeney McCrery Regula Talent Mr. BALDACCI, Ms. SANCHEZ, Mr. AMENDMENT NO. 21 OFFERED BY MR. STEARNS McHugh Reyes Tancredo DEUTSCH and Mr. REYES changed The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- McInnis Reynolds Tanner McIntosh Riley their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ ness is the demand for a recorded vote Tauzin McIntyre Roemer Taylor (MS) So the amendment was agreed to. on the amendment offered by the gen- McKeon Rogan Taylor (NC) The result of the vote was announced tleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS) on McNulty Rogers Terry as above recorded. Metcalf Rohrabacher Thornberry which further proceedings were post- Mica Ros-Lehtinen ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN poned and on which the ayes prevailed Thune Miller (FL) Roukema Thurman The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Miller, Gary Royce by voice vote. Tiahrt Resolution 209, the Chair announces The Clerk will redesignate the Mollohan Ryan (WI) Toomey Moore Ryun (KS) Traficant that he will reduce to a minimum of 5 amendment. Moran (KS) Salmon Turner minutes the period of time within The Clerk redesignated the amend- Moran (VA) Sanchez Udall (NM) which a vote by electronic device will Morella Sandlin ment. Upton Murtha Sanford be taken on each amendment on which Visclosky RECORDED VOTE Myrick Saxton Vitter the Chair has postponed further pro- The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Nethercutt Scarborough Walden ceedings. The Chair requests all Mem- been demanded. Ney Schaffer Northup Sensenbrenner Walsh bers to remain within the Chamber. Wamp A recorded vote was ordered. Norwood Sessions AMENDMENT NO. 22 OFFERED BY MR. LATHAM Watkins The CHAIRMAN. This will be a 15- Nussle Shadegg The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- minute vote followed by four 5-minute Obey Shaw Watts (OK) Weldon (FL) ness is the demand for a recorded vote votes. Ortiz Shays Ose Sherwood Weldon (PA) on the amendment offered by the gen- The vote was taken by electronic de- Oxley Shimkus Weller Weygand tleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) on vice, and there were—ayes 293, noes 134, Packard Shows which further proceeding were post- not voting 7, as follows: Pascrell Shuster Whitfield Pease Simpson Wicker poned and on which the ayes prevailed [Roll No. 216] Peterson (MN) Sisisky Wilson by voice vote. AYES—293 Peterson (PA) Skeen Wise The Clerk will redesignate the Petri Skelton Wolf Aderholt Cook Green (TX) Phelps Smith (MI) Young (AK) amendment. Archer Costello Green (WI) Pickering Smith (NJ) Young (FL) The Clerk redesignated the amend- Armey Cox Greenwood ment. Bachus Cramer Gutierrez NOES—134 Baker Crane Gutknecht RECORDED VOTE Baldacci Cubin Hall (OH) Abercrombie Gonzalez Moakley The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Ballenger Cunningham Hall (TX) Ackerman Gordon Nadler Barcia Danner Hansen Allen Hastings (FL) Napolitano been demanded. Barr Davis (FL) Hastings (WA) Andrews Hilliard Neal A recorded vote was ordered. Barrett (NE) Davis (VA) Hayes Baird Hinchey Oberstar The vote was taken by electronic de- Bartlett Deal Hayworth Baldwin Hinojosa Olver vice, and there were—ayes 424, noes 3, Barton DeFazio Hefley Barrett (WI) Holt Owens Bass DeLay Herger Becerra Hoyer Pallone not voting 7, as follows: Bateman DeMint Hill (IN) Bentsen Inslee Pastor [Roll No. 217] Bereuter Deutsch Hill (MT) Berman Jackson (IL) Paul Berkley Diaz-Balart Hilleary Blagojevich Jackson-Lee AYES—424 Payne Berry Dickey Hobson Blumenauer (TX) Abercrombie Blunt Clement Biggert Doolittle Hoeffel Bonior Jefferson Pelosi Rangel Ackerman Boehlert Clyburn Bilbray Doyle Hoekstra Borski Johnson, E.B. Aderholt Boehner Coble Rivers Bilirakis Dreier Holden Brady (PA) Jones (OH) Allen Bonilla Coburn Rodriguez Bishop Duncan Hooley Brown (FL) Kanjorski Andrews Bonior Collins Rothman Bliley Dunn Horn Brown (OH) Kennedy Archer Bono Combest Roybal-Allard Blunt Edwards Hostettler Capps Kildee Armey Borski Condit Boehlert Ehlers Hulshof Capuano Kilpatrick Rush Bachus Boswell Conyers Boehner Ehrlich Hunter Cardin Kind (WI) Sabo Baird Boucher Cook Bonilla Emerson Hutchinson Carson Kleczka Sanders Baker Boyd Cooksey Bono English Hyde Clay Klink Sawyer Baldacci Brady (PA) Costello Boswell Etheridge Isakson Clayton LaFalce Schakowsky Baldwin Brady (TX) Cox Boucher Everett Istook Clyburn Lantos Scott Ballenger Brown (FL) Coyne Boyd Ewing Jenkins Conyers Larson Serrano Barcia Brown (OH) Cramer Brady (TX) Fletcher John Cooksey Lee Sherman Barr Bryant Crane Bryant Foley Johnson (CT) Coyne Levin Slaughter Barrett (NE) Burr Crowley Burr Forbes Johnson, Sam Crowley Lewis (GA) Stark Barrett (WI) Burton Cubin Burton Ford Jones (NC) Cummings Lofgren Strickland Bartlett Buyer Cummings Buyer Fossella Kaptur Davis (IL) Luther Stupak Barton Callahan Cunningham Callahan Fowler Kasich DeGette Maloney (NY) Tauscher Bass Calvert Danner Calvert Franks (NJ) Kelly Delahunt Markey Thompson (CA) Bateman Camp Davis (FL) Camp Frelinghuysen King (NY) DeLauro Matsui Thompson (MS) Becerra Campbell Davis (IL) Campbell Gallegly Kingston Dingell McCarthy (MO) Tierney Bentsen Canady Davis (VA) Canady Ganske Knollenberg Dixon McDermott Towns Bereuter Cannon Deal Cannon Gekas Kolbe Doggett McGovern Berkley Capps DeFazio Castle Gibbons Kucinich Dooley McKinney Udall (CO) ´ Berman Capuano DeGette Chabot Gilchrest Kuykendall Engel Meehan Velazquez Vento Berry Cardin Delahunt Chambliss Gillmor LaHood Eshoo Meek (FL) Biggert Carson DeLauro Waters Chenoweth Gilman Lampson Evans Meeks (NY) Bilbray Castle DeLay Watt (NC) Clement Goode Largent Farr Menendez Bilirakis Chabot DeMint Waxman Coble Goodlatte Latham Fattah Millender- Bishop Chambliss Deutsch Coburn Goodling LaTourette Filner McDonald Wexler Blagojevich Chenoweth Diaz-Balart Collins Goss Lazio Frank (MA) Miller, George Woolsey Bliley Clay Dickey Combest Graham Leach Frost Minge Wu Blumenauer Clayton Dingell Condit Granger Lewis (CA) Gejdenson Mink Wynn

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00114 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13190 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Dixon Kelly Pease Tiahrt Vitter Wexler Pease Saxton Taylor (MS) Doggett Kennedy Pelosi Tierney Walden Weygand Peterson (MN) Schaffer Taylor (NC) Dooley Kildee Peterson (MN) Toomey Walsh Whitfield Peterson (PA) Sensenbrenner Tiahrt Doolittle Kilpatrick Peterson (PA) Towns Wamp Wicker Pickering Sessions Traficant Doyle Kind (WI) Petri Traficant Waters Wilson Pitts Shadegg Turner Dreier King (NY) Phelps Turner Watkins Wise Pomeroy Shays Udall (CO) Duncan Kingston Pickering Udall (CO) Watt (NC) Wolf Radanovich Sherwood Udall (NM) Dunn Kleczka Pickett Udall (NM) Watts (OK) Woolsey Ramstad Shows Upton Edwards Klink Pitts Upton Waxman Wu Regula Shuster Vitter Ehlers Knollenberg Pombo Vela´ zquez Weldon (FL) Wynn Riley Simpson Watkins Emerson Kolbe Pomeroy Vento Weldon (PA) Young (AK) Roemer Skelton Watts (OK) Engel Kucinich Porter Visclosky Weller Young (FL) Rogan Smith (NJ) English Kuykendall Portman Rogers Smith (TX) Weldon (FL) Eshoo LaFalce Price (NC) NOES—3 Rohrabacher Spence Weldon (PA) Etheridge LaHood Pryce (OH) Ehrlich Gonzalez Paul Ros-Lehtinen Spratt Weller Evans Lampson Quinn Rothman Stabenow Wise Everett Lantos Radanovich NOT VOTING—7 Roukema Stearns Wolf Ewing Largent Rahall Brown (CA) Houghton Weiner Royce Stenholm Wu Farr Larson Ramstad Dicks Martinez Ryun (KS) Stump Young (AK) Fattah Latham Rangel Gephardt Thomas Salmon Tancredo Young (FL) Filner LaTourette Regula Sandlin Tauzin Fletcher Lazio Reyes b 2340 Foley Leach Reynolds NOES—243 Forbes Lee Riley So the amendment was agreed to. Abercrombie Fossella McKeon Ford Levin Rivers The result of the vote was announced Ackerman Frank (MA) McKinney Fossella Lewis (CA) Rodriguez Allen Frost McNulty Fowler Lewis (GA) Roemer as above recorded. Archer Ganske Meehan Frank (MA) Lewis (KY) Rogan AMENDMENT NO. 23 OFFERED BY MR. ROGAN Baird Gejdenson Meek (FL) Franks (NJ) Linder Rogers The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Baldacci Gilman Meeks (NY) Frelinghuysen Lipinski Rohrabacher Baldwin Gonzalez Millender- Frost LoBiondo Ros-Lehtinen ness is the demand for a recorded vote Barrett (WI) Goodling McDonald Gallegly Lofgren Rothman on the amendment offered by the gen- Bateman Green (WI) Miller (FL) Ganske Lowey Roukema tleman from California (Mr. ROGAN) on Becerra Greenwood Miller, George Gejdenson Lucas (KY) Roybal-Allard Bentsen Gutierrez Minge Gekas Lucas (OK) Royce which further proceedings were post- Berkley Hansen Mink Gibbons Luther Rush poned and on which the noes prevailed Berman Hastings (FL) Moakley Gilchrest Maloney (CT) Ryan (WI) by voice vote. Berry Hastings (WA) Moran (KS) Gillmor Maloney (NY) Ryun (KS) The Clerk will redesignate the Biggert Hefley Moran (VA) Gilman Manzullo Sabo Blagojevich Hill (MT) Murtha Goode Markey Salmon amendment. Blumenauer Hilliard Nadler Goodlatte Mascara Sanchez The Clerk redesignated the amend- Blunt Hinchey Napolitano Goodling Matsui Sanders ment. Boehlert Hinojosa Neal Gordon McCarthy (MO) Sandlin Bonilla Hoeffel Nethercutt Goss McCarthy (NY) Sanford RECORDED VOTE Bonior Hoekstra Northup Graham McCollum Sawyer The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Borski Holt Nussle Granger McCrery Saxton been demanded. Boucher Hooley Oberstar Green (TX) McDermott Scarborough Boyd Hostettler Obey Green (WI) McGovern Schaffer A recorded vote was ordered. Brady (PA) Hoyer Olver Greenwood McHugh Schakowsky The vote was taken by electronic de- Brown (FL) Hulshof Ortiz Gutierrez McInnis Scott vice, and there were—ayes 184, noes 243, Brown (OH) Hutchinson Owens Gutknecht McIntosh Sensenbrenner Camp Inslee Pastor Hall (OH) McIntyre Serrano not voting 7, as follows: Campbell Isakson Paul Hall (TX) McKeon Sessions [Roll No. 218] Capps Jackson (IL) Payne Hansen McKinney Shadegg AYES—184 Capuano Jackson-Lee Pelosi Hastings (FL) McNulty Shaw Cardin (TX) Petri Hastings (WA) Meehan Shays Aderholt Cunningham Hunter Carson Jefferson Phelps Hayes Meek (FL) Sherman Andrews Danner Hyde Castle Johnson, E.B. Pickett Hayworth Meeks (NY) Sherwood Armey Davis (VA) Istook Clay Johnson, Sam Pombo Hefley Menendez Shimkus Bachus Deal Jenkins Clayton Jones (OH) Porter Herger Metcalf Shows Baker DeMint John Clement Kanjorski Portman Hill (IN) Mica Shuster Ballenger Deutsch Johnson (CT) Clyburn Kaptur Price (NC) Hill (MT) Millender- Simpson Barcia Diaz-Balart Jones (NC) Coburn Kelly Pryce (OH) Hilleary McDonald Sisisky Barr Doyle Kasich Conyers Kennedy Quinn Hilliard Miller (FL) Skeen Barrett (NE) Dreier Klink Costello Kildee Rahall Hinchey Miller, Gary Skelton Bartlett Duncan Knollenberg Coyne Kilpatrick Rangel Hinojosa Miller, George Slaughter Barton Dunn Kucinich Crowley Kind (WI) Reyes Hobson Minge Smith (MI) Bass English Lampson Cubin King (NY) Reynolds Hoeffel Mink Smith (NJ) Bereuter Everett Latham Cummings Kingston Rivers Hoekstra Moakley Smith (TX) Bilbray Fletcher Leach Davis (FL) Kleczka Rodriguez Holden Mollohan Smith (WA) Bilirakis Foley Lewis (KY) Davis (IL) Kolbe Roybal-Allard Holt Moore Snyder Bishop Fowler Linder DeFazio Kuykendall Rush Hooley Moran (KS) Souder Bliley Franks (NJ) LoBiondo DeGette LaFalce Ryan (WI) Horn Moran (VA) Spence Boehner Frelinghuysen Lofgren Delahunt LaHood Sabo Hostettler Morella Spratt Bono Gallegly Lucas (KY) DeLauro Lantos Sanchez Hoyer Murtha Stabenow Boswell Gekas Luther DeLay Largent Sanders Hulshof Myrick Stark Brady (TX) Gibbons Maloney (CT) Dickey Larson Sanford Hunter Nadler Stearns Bryant Gilchrest Mascara Dingell LaTourette Sawyer Hutchinson Napolitano Stenholm Burr Gillmor McCollum Dixon Lazio Scarborough Hyde Neal Strickland Burton Goode McInnis Doggett Lee Schakowsky Inslee Nethercutt Stump Buyer Goodlatte McIntosh Dooley Levin Scott Isakson Ney Stupak Callahan Gordon McIntyre Doolittle Lewis (CA) Serrano Istook Northup Sununu Calvert Goss Menendez Edwards Lewis (GA) Shaw Jackson (IL) Norwood Sweeney Canady Graham Metcalf Ehlers Lipinski Sherman Jackson-Lee Nussle Talent Cannon Granger Mica Ehrlich Lowey Shimkus (TX) Oberstar Tancredo Chabot Green (TX) Miller, Gary Emerson Lucas (OK) Sisisky Jefferson Obey Tanner Chambliss Gutknecht Mollohan Engel Maloney (NY) Skeen Jenkins Olver Tauscher Chenoweth Hall (OH) Moore Eshoo Manzullo Slaughter John Ortiz Tauzin Coble Hall (TX) Morella Etheridge Markey Smith (MI) Johnson (CT) Ose Taylor (MS) Collins Hayes Myrick Evans Matsui Smith (WA) Johnson, E.B. Owens Taylor (NC) Combest Hayworth Ney Ewing McCarthy (MO) Snyder Johnson, Sam Oxley Terry Condit Herger Norwood Farr McCarthy (NY) Souder Jones (NC) Packard Thompson (CA) Cook Hill (IN) Ose Fattah McCrery Stark Jones (OH) Pallone Thompson (MS) Cooksey Hilleary Oxley Filner McDermott Strickland Kanjorski Pascrell Thornberry Cox Hobson Packard Forbes McGovern Stupak Kaptur Pastor Thune Cramer Holden Pallone Ford McHugh Sununu Kasich Payne Thurman Crane Horn Pascrell

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00115 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13191 Sweeney Tierney Watt (NC) Green (WI) McHugh Scarborough Miller, George Rangel Stark Talent Toomey Waxman Greenwood McInnis Schaffer Minge Reyes Tanner Tanner Towns Wexler Gutknecht McIntosh Sensenbrenner Mink Rivers Tauscher Tauscher Vela´ zquez Weygand Hall (OH) McIntyre Sessions Moakley Rodriguez Thompson (MS) Terry Vento Whitfield Hall (TX) McKeon Shadegg Morella Roybal-Allard Tierney Thompson (CA) Visclosky Wicker Hansen McNulty Shaw Nadler Rush Towns Thompson (MS) Walden Wilson Hastings (WA) Menendez Shays Neal Sabo Udall (CO) Thornberry Walsh Woolsey Hayes Metcalf Sherwood Oberstar Sanchez Udall (NM) Thune Wamp Olver Sanders Vela´ zquez Wynn Hayworth Mica Shimkus Thurman Waters Hefley Miller (FL) Shows Owens Schakowsky Vento Herger Miller, Gary Shuster Pallone Scott Waters NOT VOTING—7 Hill (IN) Mollohan Simpson Payne Serrano Watt (NC) Brown (CA) Houghton Weiner Hill (MT) Moore Sisisky Pelosi Sherman Wexler Dicks Martinez Hilleary Moran (KS) Skeen Pickett Slaughter Weygand Gephardt Thomas Hobson Moran (VA) Skelton Porter Snyder Woolsey Hoeffel Murtha Smith (MI) NOT VOTING—7 b 2349 Hoekstra Myrick Smith (NJ) Holden Napolitano Smith (TX) Brown (CA) Houghton Weiner Messers. QUINN, DOGGETT, BERRY, Hooley Nethercutt Smith (WA) Dicks Martinez BENTSEN, CAMP, PORTMAN, HILL of Horn Ney Souder Gephardt Thomas Montana, and Ms. PRYCE of Ohio and Hostettler Northup Spence Mrs. CUBIN changed their vote from Hulshof Norwood Spratt b 2357 Hunter Nussle Stabenow So the amendment was agreed to. ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Hutchinson Obey Stearns So the amendment was rejected. Hyde Ortiz Stenholm The result of the vote was announced The result of the vote was announced Inslee Ose Strickland as above recorded. Isakson Oxley Stump as above recorded. AMENDMENT NO. 26 OFFERED BY MR. DEMINT Istook Packard Stupak The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- b 2350 Jenkins Pascrell Sununu John Pastor Sweeney ness is the demand for a recorded vote AMENDMENT NO. 24 OFFERED BY MR. TANCREDO Johnson (CT) Paul Talent on the amendment offered by the gen- Johnson, Sam Pease Tancredo The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Jones (NC) Peterson (MN) Tauzin tleman from South Carolina (Mr. ness is the demand for a recorded vote Kanjorski Peterson (PA) Taylor (MS) DEMINT) on which further proceedings on the amendment offered by the gen- Kaptur Petri Taylor (NC) were postponed and on which the ayes Kasich Phelps Terry tleman from Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO) Kelly Pickering Thompson (CA) prevailed by voice vote. on which further proceedings were King (NY) Pitts Thornberry The Clerk will redesignate the postponed and on which the ayes pre- Kingston Pombo Thune amendment. vailed by voice vote. Klink Pomeroy Thurman The Clerk redesignated the amend- Knollenberg Portman Tiahrt The Clerk will redesignate the Kolbe Price (NC) Toomey ment. amendment. Kuykendall Pryce (OH) Traficant RECORDED VOTE The Clerk redesignated the amend- LaFalce Quinn Turner The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has ment. LaHood Radanovich Upton Lampson Rahall Visclosky been demanded. RECORDED VOTE Largent Ramstad Vitter A recorded vote was ordered. The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Latham Regula Walden The CHAIRMAN. This will be a 5- LaTourette Reynolds Walsh been demanded. Lazio Riley Wamp minute vote. A recorded vote was ordered. Leach Roemer Watkins The vote was taken by electronic de- The CHAIRMAN. This is a 5-minute Lewis (CA) Rogan Watts (OK) vice, and there were—ayes 238, noes 189, vote. Lewis (KY) Rogers Waxman Linder Rohrabacher Weldon (FL) not voting 7, as follows: The vote was taken by electronic de- Lipinski Ros-Lehtinen Weldon (PA) [Roll No. 220] vice, and there were—ayes 300, noes 127, LoBiondo Rothman Weller AYES—238 not voting 7, as follows: Lofgren Roukema Whitfield Lucas (KY) Royce Wicker Aderholt Clement Gekas [Roll No. 219] Lucas (OK) Ryan (WI) Wilson Archer Coble Gibbons AYES—300 Manzullo Ryun (KS) Wise Armey Coburn Gilchrest Mascara Salmon Wolf Bachus Collins Gillmor Aderholt Burton Dooley Matsui Sandlin Wu Baker Combest Gilman Archer Buyer Doolittle McCarthy (NY) Sanford Wynn Ballenger Condit Goode Armey Callahan Doyle McCollum Sawyer Young (AK) Barcia Cook Goodlatte Bachus Calvert Dreier McCrery Saxton Young (FL) Barr Cox Goodling Baird Camp Duncan Barrett (NE) Cramer Gordon Baker Canady Dunn NOES—127 Bartlett Crane Goss Ballenger Cannon Ehlers Barton Cubin Graham Barcia Castle Ehrlich Abercrombie DeGette Jefferson Bass Cunningham Granger Barr Chabot Emerson Ackerman Delahunt Johnson, E.B. Bateman Danner Green (WI) Barrett (NE) Chambliss English Allen DeLauro Jones (OH) Berry Davis (VA) Gutknecht Barrett (WI) Chenoweth Etheridge Andrews Dingell Kennedy Biggert Deal Hall (OH) Bartlett Clement Everett Baldacci Dixon Kildee Bilbray DeLay Hall (TX) Barton Coble Ewing Baldwin Doggett Kilpatrick Bilirakis DeMint Hansen Bass Coburn Fletcher Becerra Edwards Kind (WI) Bishop Diaz-Balart Hastings (WA) Bateman Collins Foley Bentsen Engel Kleczka Bliley Dickey Hayes Berry Combest Forbes Bereuter Eshoo Kucinich Blunt Doolittle Hayworth Biggert Condit Ford Berkley Evans Lantos Boehner Doyle Hefley Bilbray Cook Fossella Berman Farr Larson Bonilla Dreier Herger Bilirakis Costello Fowler Blumenauer Fattah Lee Bono Duncan Hill (IN) Bishop Cox Franks (NJ) Bonior Filner Levin Boswell Dunn Hill (MT) Blagojevich Cramer Gallegly Brady (PA) Frank (MA) Lewis (GA) Boucher Ehlers Hilleary Bliley Crane Ganske Brown (FL) Frelinghuysen Lowey Brady (TX) Ehrlich Hobson Blunt Crowley Gekas Campbell Frost Luther Bryant Emerson Hoekstra Boehlert Cubin Gibbons Capps Gejdenson Maloney (CT) Burr Etheridge Holden Boehner Cunningham Gilchrest Capuano Gonzalez Maloney (NY) Burton Everett Horn Bonilla Danner Gillmor Cardin Gutierrez Markey Buyer Ewing Hostettler Bono Davis (FL) Gilman Carson Hastings (FL) McCarthy (MO) Callahan Fletcher Hulshof Borski Davis (VA) Goode Clay Hilliard McDermott Calvert Foley Hunter Boswell Deal Goodlatte Clayton Hinchey McGovern Camp Forbes Hutchinson Boucher DeFazio Goodling Clyburn Hinojosa McKinney Canady Fossella Hyde Boyd DeLay Gordon Conyers Holt Meehan Cannon Fowler Isakson Brady (TX) DeMint Goss Cooksey Hoyer Meek (FL) Chabot Frelinghuysen Istook Brown (OH) Deutsch Graham Coyne Jackson (IL) Meeks (NY) Chambliss Gallegly Jenkins Bryant Diaz-Balart Granger Cummings Jackson-Lee Millender- Chenoweth Ganske John Burr Dickey Green (TX) Davis (IL) (TX) McDonald

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00116 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13192 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Johnson, Sam Oxley Skeen Sanders Stark Vela´ zquez religion or prohibiting the free exercise Jones (NC) Packard Skelton Sandlin Strickland Vento thereof made by the United States Govern- Kelly Paul Smith (MI) Sawyer Stupak Visclosky ment. Schakowsky Tanner Kingston Pease Smith (NJ) Waters (4) The rights secured under the First Knollenberg Peterson (MN) Scott Tauscher Smith (TX) Watt (NC) Amendment have been interpreted by courts Kolbe Peterson (PA) Souder Serrano Thompson (CA) Waxman of the United States Government to be in- Kuykendall Petri Spence Shays Thompson (MS) Wexler LaHood Pickering Spratt Sherman Thurman Weygand cluded among the provisions of the Four- Sisisky Tierney Largent Pitts Stearns Wise teenth Amendment. Slaughter Towns Latham Pombo Stenholm Woolsey (5) The Tenth Amendment reserves to the LaTourette Portman Smith (WA) Turner Stump Wu States respectively the powers not delegated Lazio Pryce (OH) Snyder Udall (CO) Sununu Wynn to the United States Government nor prohib- Leach Quinn Stabenow Udall (NM) Sweeney ited to the States. Lewis (CA) Radanovich Talent NOT VOTING—7 Lewis (KY) Rahall (6) Disputes and doubts have arisen with Linder Ramstad Tancredo Brown (CA) Houghton Weiner respect to public displays of the Ten Com- LoBiondo Regula Tauzin Dicks Martinez mandments and to other public expression of Lucas (KY) Reynolds Taylor (MS) Gephardt Thomas religious faith. Lucas (OK) Riley Taylor (NC) (7) Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment Manzullo Roemer Terry b 0003 grants the Congress power to enforce the Thornberry Mascara Rogan provisions of the said amendment. McCollum Rogers Thune So the amendment was agreed to. (8) Article I, Section 8, grants the Congress McCrery Rohrabacher Tiahrt The result of the vote was announced McHugh Ros-Lehtinen Toomey as above recorded. power to constitute tribunals inferior to the McInnis Roukema Traficant The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Supreme Court, and Article III, Section 1, McIntosh Royce Upton grants the Congress power to ordain and es- McIntyre Ryan (WI) Vitter LAHOOD). It is now in order to consider tablish courts in which the judicial power of McKeon Ryun (KS) Walden amendment No. 27 printed in part A in the United States Government shall be vest- Metcalf Salmon Walsh House Report 106–186. ed. Mica Sanford Wamp Mr. ISTOOK. Mr. Chairman, the next SEC. ll. RELIGIOUS LIBERTY RIGHTS DE- Miller (FL) Saxton Watkins scheduled amendment to be offered was CLARED. Miller, Gary Scarborough Watts (OK) Mollohan Schaffer Weldon (FL) one which I was to offer. However, I do (a) DISPLAY OF TEN COMMANDMENTS.—The Moran (KS) Sensenbrenner Weldon (PA) not intend to offer it because the pre- power to display the Ten Commandments on Myrick Sessions Weller vious amendment, the DEMINT amend- or within property owned or administered by Nethercutt Shadegg the several States or political subdivisions Ney Shaw Whitfield ment, was adopted by the House. Northup Sherwood Wicker My amendment had some similarities thereof is hereby declared to be among the Wilson powers reserved to the States respectively. Norwood Shimkus with the DeMint amendment. It would Nussle Shows Wolf (b) EXPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS FAITH.—The Ortiz Shuster Young (AK) have stated that a plaintiff who sued to expression of religious faith by individual Ose Simpson Young (FL) try to stop voluntary student prayer in persons on or within property owned or ad- public schools would not be entitled to ministered by the several States or political NOES—189 collect attorney fees from the school subdivisions thereof is hereby— Abercrombie Eshoo Luther district. However, since the DeMint (1) declared to be among the rights secured Ackerman Evans Maloney (CT) against laws respecting an establishment of Allen Farr Maloney (NY) amendment concerned religious expres- sion, and certainly prayer is one of religion or prohibiting the free exercise of Andrews Fattah Markey religion made or enforced by the United Baird Filner Matsui those religious expressions, my amend- States Government or by any department or Baldacci Ford McCarthy (MO) ment is unnecessary because my objec- Baldwin Frank (MA) McCarthy (NY) executive or judicial officer thereof; and Barrett (WI) Franks (NJ) McDermott tive was covered in fact in a broader (2) declared to be among the liberties of Becerra Frost McGovern way by the DeMint amendment. which no State shall deprive any person Bentsen Gejdenson McKinney Therefore, I do not wish to offer my without due process of law made in pursu- Bereuter Gonzalez McNulty amendment at this time. ance of powers reserved to the States respec- Berkley Green (TX) Meehan tively. Berman Greenwood Meek (FL) The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. It is Blagojevich Gutierrez Meeks (NY) now in order to consider amendment (c) EXERCISE OF JUDICIAL POWER.—The Blumenauer Hastings (FL) Menendez No. 28 printed in part A of House Re- courts constituted, ordained, and established Boehlert Hilliard Millender- by the Congress shall exercise the judicial Bonior Hinchey McDonald port 106–186. power in a manner consistent with the fore- Borski Hinojosa Miller, George AMENDMENT NO. 28 OFFERED BY MR. ADERHOLT going declarations. Boyd Hoeffel Minge Brady (PA) Holt Mink Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, I The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- Brown (FL) Hooley Moakley offer an amendment. ant to House Resolution 209, the gen- Brown (OH) Hoyer Moore The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The tleman from Alabama (Mr. ADERHOLT) Campbell Inslee Moran (VA) Clerk will designate the amendment. Capps Jackson (IL) Morella and a Member opposed each will con- Capuano Jackson-Lee Murtha The text of the amendment is as fol- trol 10 minutes. Cardin (TX) Nadler lows: The Chair recognizes the gentleman Carson Jefferson Napolitano Part A amendment No. 28 offered by Mr. Castle Johnson (CT) Neal from Alabama (Mr. ADERHOLT). ADERHOLT: Clay Johnson, E.B. Oberstar Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, I Clayton Jones (OH) Obey Add at the end the following new title: yield myself such time as I may con- Clyburn Kanjorski Olver TITLE ll—RIGHTS TO RELIGIOUS sume. Conyers Kaptur Owens LIBERTY Cooksey Kasich Pallone Mr. Chairman, the recent shootings Costello Kennedy Pascrell SEC. ll. FINDINGS. in Littleton, Colorado, provide an un- Coyne Kildee Pastor The Congress finds the following: fortunate picture of the terror infested Crowley Kilpatrick Payne (1) The Declaration of Independence de- Cummings Kind (WI) Pelosi clares that governments are instituted to se- in our schools today, children killing Davis (FL) King (NY) Phelps cure certain unalienable rights, including children in the halls of our schools, Davis (IL) Kleczka Pickett children who do not understand the DeFazio Klink Pomeroy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, DeGette Kucinich Porter with which all human beings are endowed by basic principles of humankind. Delahunt LaFalce Price (NC) their Creator and to which they are entitled Today, I offer the Ten Command- DeLauro Lampson Rangel by the laws of nature and of nature’s God. ments Defense Act amendment. This Deutsch Lantos Reyes (2) The organic laws of the United States Dingell Larson Rivers amendment would protect America’s Code and the constitutions of every State, religious freedom by allowing States, Dixon Lee Rodriguez using various expressions, recognize God as Doggett Levin Rothman the source of the blessings of liberty. and I repeat that, allowing States to Dooley Lewis (GA) Roybal-Allard make the decision whether or not to Edwards Lipinski Rush (3) The First Amendment to the Constitu- Engel Lofgren Sabo tion of the United States secures rights display the Ten Commandments on or English Lowey Sanchez against laws respecting an establishment of within publicly owned property.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00117 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13193 As Members of Congress, we have the killing children. The States we rep- Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman, we have privilege and the weighty responsi- resent deserve the opportunity to de- awoken to a day in which hatred is bility to make laws for our country cide for themselves whether they want overlooked, violence is glorified, and which honor the individual, laws that to display the Ten Commandments. random acts of indecency are tolerated. foster value and establish basic guide- This is consistent with the Tenth I fear that this has led to a generation lines of right and wrong; do not steal, Amendment to the Constitution, which that no longer understands the dif- do not lie, do not kill. We are fortunate says those powers not given to the Fed- ference between right and wrong. to live in a country in which the very eral Government are reserved for the This segment of our youth popu- First Amendment of our Constitution States. lation has abandoned the notion that guarantees the freedom of religion. I ask my colleagues to join me in giv- human life should be treasured. It sad- This does not mean freedom from re- ing the States the power to decide dens me to conclude that many of ligion. Rather, it means that we are whether to display the Ten Command- these youth are, by their own account, free to live as we choose; we are free ments, which are the very backbone of morally destitute. Regrettably, Ameri- from the tyranny which stifles our ex- the values and the nature of our soci- cans have witnessed a series of heart- pression of faith. ety. wrenching incidents of youth violence, The founders wisely realized that in a Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance casting light on the magnitude of our free society it is imperative that indi- of my time. Nation’s problem. viduals practice forbearance, respect b 0010 I do not support the Aderholt amend- ment because I want to impose religion and temperance. These are the very Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I rise to in our schools. I strongly support this values taught by all the world’s major claim the time in opposition to the amendment because our States should religions and the Ten Commandments amendment. and our Constitution underscore these The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman have the opportunity to expose their students to a timeless code which, I be- values. from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) is recognized While this amendment does not en- for 10 minutes. lieve, could instill ageless values. dorse any one religion, it states that a Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield I have given much thought to why some of my colleagues are so resistant religious symbol which has deep rooted myself 11⁄2 minutes. significance for our Nation and its his- Mr. Chairman, our rich tradition of to the proposal of the gentleman from tory should not be excluded from the religious diversity is a cornerstone of Alabama (Mr. ADERHOLT), and, frankly, public square. American constitutional rights. Rather I remain incredulous. Do some truly As I look behind me in the House than trying to honor and promote that believe that teaching our children that Chamber here tonight, I see other reli- tradition of religious diversity by fo- lying, stealing, and killing is wrong? gious symbols. In the balcony there are cusing on the Ten Commandments, this Listening to some of my colleagues on reliefs of great lawgivers throughout amendment seeks to elevate one par- the other side of the aisle, one might history. Blackstone, Jefferson, ticular religion over all others. This conclude that the amendment of the Hammarabbi, and the list goes on. singling out of one religion is contrary gentleman from Alabama (Mr. ADERHOLT) would tear at the fabric of However, on the main door to this to the American ideal of religious tol- our Nation. Chamber is the relief of Moses, the erance and is blatantly unconstitu- It is amazing to me that many of most prominent place in the Chamber. tional. By contrast, the Chamber of the Su- these same Members will, no doubt, ve- He looks directly at the Speaker. hemently defend the right of commer- Above the dais, are the words, in God preme Court, one of the best traditions cial vendors who wish to distribute we trust and each day in this Chamber of our religious diversity, the Ten Com- mandments, depicts Hammurabi, pornography, filth, and violence to our we open with prayer by our Chaplain. children, and yet rail against States Religious expression is not absent from Moses, Confucius, Augustus, Moham- med and others as those who have that wish to allow their school dis- this public building, and it is not fair tricts the right to post the 10 basic te- to say that public buildings in each of given the philosophy and law, and does so in a manner that honors the diver- nets of the Judeo-Christian tradition. the States are precluded from recog- Mr. Chairman, when will we as a Con- nizing this heritage. sity of our religious experience. The amendment before us today is gress humbly acknowledge that this The Ten Commandments represent unconstitutional because it is incon- Nation was founded on a simple prin- the very cornerstone of Western civili- sistent with the first amendment. The ciple of trust in God? We need to get zation and the basis of our legal system case law clearly establishes that plac- our priorities straight. I support the here in America. To exclude a display ing religious articles such as the Ten freedom of religion, and I support this of the Ten Commandments and suggest Commandments outside the context of amendment. that it is in some way an establish- 1 other secular symbols, in a government Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 ⁄2 ment of religion is not consistent with establishment is a violation of the Es- minutes to the gentleman from New our Nation’s heritage. This Nation was tablishment Clause. York (Mr. NADLER). founded on religious traditions and In Stone v. Graham, in 1980, the Su- Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, this they are integral parts of the fabric of preme Court struck down a Kentucky amendment again attempts to say that American culture, political and soci- law requiring the posting of the Ten the Congress finds what is constitu- etal life. Commandments in public schools. An- tional and what is not. It finds to be This amendment today is not just other case, in 1994, the 11th Circuit constitutional what the courts of the about the display of the Ten Command- Court of Appeals found a courtroom land, which have the power and the ments. It is also about our Nation’s display of the Ten Commandments to duty under our system of finding what children and the role that values play be unconstitutional. is constitutional, this says what they in our national life. Our Nation was For more than 200 years, we have sur- have found to be unconstitutional is founded on Judeo-Christian principles vived as a government of laws and constitutional. It is usurpation of the and by our Founding Fathers. court interpretations of those laws, power of the courts, number one. I realize that many things need to and now is not the time on a juvenile Number two, it says the courts, con- happen to redirect this overwhelming justice bill to be debating complex con- stituted and ordained and established surge toward a violent culture. I also stitutional principles that have noth- by the Congress, shall exercise the ju- understand that simply posting the ing to do with juvenile crime. dicial power in a manner consistent Ten Commandments will not change Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance with the foregoing declarations. God the moral character of our Nation of my time. forbid, the courts should exercise the overnight. However, it is one step that Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, I judicial power in accordance with the States can take to promote morality yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from courts’ understanding of the Constitu- and work toward an end of children North Carolina (Mr. HAYES). tion, first of all; and, second of all,

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00118 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13194 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 with the laws, not with opinions ex- their knees and say, I must pay hom- lawyers. And, those lawyers are getting what pressed and findings of Congress. age to whatever religion the gentleman they paid for judging from the lengths some Third, public buildings shall have the from Georgia (Mr. Barr) is. There is are willing to go to in order to keep moral Ten Commandments. The Ten Com- nothing in these Ten Commandments teaching out of our schools. mandments say a number of things. I that reaches out and grabs somebody Frankly, I’ll take protecting the rights of law think most people who talk about and forces them to abide by any par- abiding citizens over working to protect the them do not really know what they ticular religious belief. views of special interests any day. What kind say. It says, ‘‘I am the Lord, thy God, I challenge anybody on the other side of society allows its students to make videos who has brought thee forth from to tell me what in these Ten Command- about violence, but won’t allow teachers to put Egypt. Thou shalt have no other Gods ments they find so objectionable. Do a poster on a wall with the words ‘‘Thou shalt before me, for I, the Lord thy God, am they find so objectionable that it says, not kill’’ written on it? Trial lawyers and intimi- a jealous God, visiting the sins of the Thou shalt not kill? Would they object dating federal bureaucrats have dictated fathers on the children even unto the to having those words, and no more, in- school policies for too long. Enough is third and fourth generations.’’ scribed on the halls of our schools so enough. Do most religious groups in this that our children are reminded that Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 country really believe that God visits thou shalt not kill? I dare say no. minutes to the gentleman from Texas the sins of the fathers on the children It mystifies me what they find so ob- (Mr. EDWARDS). to the third and fourth generations? I jectionable in the Ten Commandments. Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Chairman, after think not. They say, oh, this is not the time, Mr. hearing the last statement on the ‘‘Thou shalt not work on Saturday.’’ Chairman, this is not the time in this floor, I am reminded of a statement Most Christian denominations have bill about youth violence. I challenge made by the 18th Century American changed it to Sunday. Do we want to them, if this is not the time, what in Baptist preacher, John Leland, who say they are wrong, with the power of God’s name is the time? When in God’s fought mightily for a religious liberty the State behind them, the Christian name, Mr. Chairman, is it time; when amendment in the Bill of Rights when groups are wrong, they ought to be we have children killing children in he said, ‘‘Experience has informed us changed back to Saturday? That is our schools, killing teachers in our that the fondness of magistrates to fos- what the Ten Commandments seems to schools is the time? ter Christianity has done it more harm say. Is it the time when we have another than all the persecutions ever did. Per- I am not expressing a view on reli- tragedy in schools? Will it be time secution, like the lion, tears the saints gion, but the States should not take a when we have more teachers killed? to death, but leaves Christianity pure. position on that by putting that in the Will it be time when we have more State establishment of religion, like a courtroom or the schools. weapons of destruction being taken bear, hugs the saints, but corrupts Let me ask a different question: into our schools? Maybe then it would Christianity.’’ Mr. Chairman, what is wrong with Whose Ten Commandments? Which be time. But I say, Mr. Chairman, it is this picture? Our Founding Fathers de- version? The Catholic version? The time now. Protestant version, or the Jewish As was spoken eloquently in testi- cided that the issue of religious liberty, version? They are different, you know. mony before the House of Representa- the concept of separating church and The Hebrew words are the same, but tives Subcommittee on Crime on May State in America was so important it the translations are very different, re- 27, 1999, in a poem penned by one of the should be the first 16 words of the Bill flecting different religious traditions parents of the victims of two of the of Rights. But here we are, after midnight, and different religious beliefs. Columbine High School shootings vic- more staff people on this floor than Are our public buildings to be Catho- tims, Darrell Scott, he sent a poem Members of this House, debating with lic because the local Catholic majority which now hangs on our wall next to the gracious allowance of 10 minutes votes that the Catholic version found the Ten Commandments. He says in on each side, 10 minutes to debate an in the Douay Bible should be in the closing, ‘‘You fail to understand that issue that is fundamental to the point. public buildings? Or perhaps they God is what we need!’’ We do need God. It is the very beginning of the founda- should be Protestant because the local I urge the adoption of this amendment. tion of our Bill of Rights and the first majority decides that the Saint James In the past, America had one room school amendment. version of the Ten Commandments, houses where moral teaching and strong dis- which is very different from the Catho- cipline were a part of each day’s lesson. At b 0020 lic version. Or maybe the Jews have a the same time, we had very few gun control That is wrong. majority in the local district, and they laws on the books. In those days, violence in Now, I would suggest it is absolutely decide the Messianic version should be schools was largely limited to playground scuf- disingenuous to suggest that tonight is in the public buildings. fles. a debate about the goodness of the Ten It was precisely to avoid divisive Today, we have numerous gun control laws. Commandments. I am a Christian, I questions like this that the first We also have schools where students are for- would say to my colleague, the gen- amendment commands no establish- bidden to pray in class or refer to the Lord, tleman from Georgia (Mr. BARR). I am ment of religion; and that is what this where Bible stories cannot be read, and where not going to debate my level of Christi- ignorant amendment would overturn. I teachers cannot discipline students. At the anity versus anyone else’s. It is not my urge its defeat. same time, we are forced to fight a rising tide place in my Christianity to judge any- Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, I of juvenile violence that would have been un- one else. But that is not what this de- yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from thinkable a few short years ago. Coincidence? bate is all about. This debate is wheth- Georgia (Mr. BARR). Not likely. er government has the right to use its Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, One of the most egregious examples of the resources to push its religious views on this is a copy of the Ten Command- disconnect between common sense and gov- other free citizens of this land. ments that hangs on the wall of the of- ernment is the policy many governments have And do not listen to my words to- fice of the gentleman from Georgia been forced to adopt, banning public display night. Listen to what the Supreme (Mr. BARR), Representative from the of the Ten Commandments. Court said. The Supreme Court has Seventh District. This has been hang- Mr. Chairman, some on the other side of the clearly stated in its cases that the pre- ing on our wall for close to 5 years now, aisle keep saying that Republicans are work- eminent purpose for posting the Ten since I was sworn in as a Member of ing on behalf of the NRA. Their irrational argu- Commandments on the schoolroom this Chamber. ment against something as simple and non- walls is plainly religious in nature. Not one time have we had somebody sectarian as displaying the Ten Command- This debate does disservice to the that has walked into that office, seen ments proves that many in the Democrat party Bill of Rights and the principle of reli- these Commandments, fallen down on have been bought and paid for by the trial gious liberty.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00119 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13195 Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, I Muslim faith, I do not know anything crime bill, he must be saying, put the yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from about Buddhists. I respect each of Ten Commandments in our schools. Indiana (Mr. SOUDER). those. But when I send my child to Well, in our schools, as evidenced by Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I thank school, I expect my child not to be in- the statement of the Secretary of Edu- the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. fluenced by anybody else’s religion. I cation, that I wish the gentleman from ADERHOLT) for yielding me this time expect to teach my child in my house Colorado (Mr. TANCREDO) would have and for his leadership. what I would like to teach him about offered, we allow our students to ex- This debate is about what is going on religion. While I respect everybody’s press themselves, no matter what their with our kids in America, and that is religion, I do not want it imposed on religion is. They can gather volun- why it is part of the juvenile justice my child where I send him to school. tarily and pray to their respective bill. And there are millions and mil- Now, my colleague thinks it is all gods. If they want to acknowledge the lions, probably the overwhelming ma- right to have the Ten Commandments. Ten Commandments, do so, and I sup- jority of Americans, who believe part I do not know what is synonymous to port them in doing so. I happen to be- of this is the lack of moral teaching that in any of these other religions. I lieve in the Seventh Day Sabbath, but and the moral influence which we have know one thing. I do not want anybody if someone does not agree with that, sucked out of our system in this coun- else’s religion displayed by way of their then they have every right to not be try. commandments in the classroom where forced to do so. I am tired of hearing tonight on the my child is, maybe teaching him some- I would say, Mr. Chairman, that the floor about how neutral our Founding thing different than what I would teach Constitution is violated by that Fathers were and this and that. The him. amendment, and I would ask it be de- fact is we have lawgivers all around As far as I am concerned, I teach my feated. this body, and all their heads are side- child that God is God. It may be Jeho- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield ways on this side, and all their heads vah, it may be Allah, it may be some- myself the balance of my time. are sideways on that side, except for thing in other religions. But that is the Mr. Chairman, Amendment I of the one. Moses is looking straight down on point. The point is this is a Nation Constitution says the Congress shall the Speaker of the House. And up where we are allowed to practice what- make no law respecting an establish- above the Speaker of the House it says ever we would like to practice. It is ment of religion. Obviously, picking ‘‘In God We Trust.’’ And it is Moses central and basic to our democracy. It one religious symbol establishes that looking here, not all these on this side is installed in our Constitution. It is religion. and not all these on this side. They are sacrosanct. It is the most precious Mr. Chairman, to the extent this part of a tradition, but this is the cen- thing that we can have, freedom of reli- measure may be constitutional, if it is tral tradition. We have denied and gion. constitutional, we do not need it. If it sucked out the central tradition. When the gentleman talks about the is not constitutional, it does not make We now have diversity, and in the Ten Commandments, he is talking any difference whether we pass it or schools we allow posting of posters about something that is central to not. We are wasting time. We ought to from the Hindu background, from the Christianity. Why in God’s name would get back to juvenile crime. We should Mexican background, prayers from In- he want that to be the symbol of not be taking up this measure at 12:30 dian faiths, but not the Ten Command- everybody’s religion? The fact of the at night. I would hope we would get ments. In Congress, Members who are matter is, he would not like it if some- back to the serious consideration of ju- interested can get and have the dif- body else imposed something else on venile crime. ferent plaques, the stone plates, and I his child. So he has got to see it in a Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I ask hope we do not drop these because I do more comprehensive way. unanimous consent, in view of the im- not want to bring any bolts of light- It is unconstitutional. It flies in the portance of this subject, that the time ning down on us, of the Ten Command- face of the Constitution of this land for debate be extended by 1 hour. ments. We can put these in our offices. and it should not be done. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. We can have Moses staring down here, Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 LAHOOD). Is there objection to the re- but these things apparently are dan- minutes to the gentlewoman from quest of the gentleman from New gerous for our children. We would not Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). York? want them to have other gods. We Ms. JACKSON LEE of Texas. Mr. Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, I ob- would not want them to learn about Chairman, I respect the fact that there ject. killing and stealing. Apparently, this is are Members who have come to this The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Objec- more dangerous than whether they can floor arguing the Constitution on a ju- tion is heard. wear Marilyn Manson T-shirts, wheth- venile crime bill because they see no The question is on the amendment er they can have posters in the schools other hope for them or for the children offered by the gentleman from Ala- advertising rock concerts. Anything of America. And I would simply say to bama (Mr. ADERHOLT). goes pretty much in the schools as long the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. The question was taken; and the as it is not the Ten Commandments. ADERHOLT), although I respect his de- Chairman pro tempore announced that That is what we are concerned about, sires and his appreciation for the Ten the ayes appeared to have it. is the stripping of the religious free- Commandments, it is important to Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I demand dom for the central part of our culture, hold in high regard the Constitution of a recorded vote. not trying to deprive other people of the United States. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- their rights. I am fine with posting dif- The Constitution requires that we es- ant to House Resolution 209, furthers ferent versions of the Ten Command- tablish no religion. The gentleman proceedings on the amendment offered ments, if that is what it takes. We are from Georgia (Mr. BARR) has asked, by the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. not trying to restrict other people’s ‘‘When in God’s name.’’ Well, the gen- ADERHOLT) will be postponed. rights. We are trying to bring the tleman has the Ten Commandments, It is now in order to consider amend- rights back for the central faith of this and I would hope that wherever the ment No. 29 printed in part A of House country. gentleman from Georgia goes he offers Report 106–186. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 to those who will hear him his belief in b 0030 minutes to the gentlewoman from Cali- the Ten Commandments. And that is fornia (Ms. WATERS). what we need to give our children in AMENDMENT NO. 29 OFFERED BY MR. SOUDER Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I am a America, the opportunity for them to Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I offer protestant, a Baptist in particular. I choose their beliefs. an amendment. am not of the Jewish faith, I do not For this to be allowed, if the gen- The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- practice Judaism, I do not practice the tleman is attaching it to the juvenile ignate the amendment.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00120 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13196 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999

The text of the amendment is as fol- GORE has come to speak out on chari- would hope the author of this amend- lows: table choice, as well. ment would clarify to this House before Part A amendment No. 29 offered by Mr. In Atlanta, at the Salvation Army, we vote on this crucial point whether SOUDER: on May 24, he said, ‘‘I believe the les- this will allow money to go directly to At the end of the bill, add the following son for our Nation is clear. In those in- pervasively sectarian religious institu- (and make such technical and conforming stances where the complete power of tions. changes as may be appropriate): faith can help us meet the crushing so- Mr. Chairman, I would be glad to SEC. 3. RELIGIOUS NONDISCRIMINATION. cial challenges that are otherwise im- yield to the gentleman if he would an- The Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Pre- possible to meet, such as drug addic- swer that question. vention Act of 1974 (42 U.S.C. 5601 et seq.) is tion and gang violence, we should ex- Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, this has amended by inserting before title III the fol- exactly the same language that my col- lowing: plore carefully-tailored relationships with our faith community so that we league voted for in the human services ‘‘RELIGIOUS NONDISCRIMINATION can use approaches that are working authorization and that he voted for ‘‘SEC. 299J. (a) A governmental entity that best.’’ personally in the welfare. It is the receives a grant under this title and that is same language. authorized by this title to carry out the pur- If my colleagues look at his cam- paign home page, it specifically says Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Chairman, it is pose for which such grant is made through the same language that not 5 or 10 contracts with, or grants to, nongovern- that ‘‘Vice President Gore and his pres- mental entities may use such grant to carry idential campaign supports the concept Members of this House knew was in the out such purpose through contracts with or of charitable choice, which the Presi- welfare reform bill. And I was here on grants to religious organizations. dent of the United States has signed in the floor of the House at 1 a.m. in the ‘‘(b) For purposes of subsection (a), sub- two other bills.’’ morning the last time we debated this. sections (b) through (k) of section 104 of the It is hard for me to understand why But would the gentleman please answer Personal Responsibility and Work Oppor- my question? It is a good-faith ques- tunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (42 U.S.C. anybody would oppose this amendment since both parties’ leading contenders, tion to the gentleman. 604a) shall apply with respect to the use of a Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I yield since the current President of the grant received by such entity under this title myself such time as I may consume. in the same manner as such subsections United States, since both Houses of I will answer the question here. I apply to States with respect to a program Congress have adopted it. And I hope apologize for seeming to avoid it, but described in section 104(a)(2)(A) of such we will pass this amendment. Act.’’. in fact it was debated. It was a major Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance debate in conference and was aired na- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House of my time. tionally in the media. Resolution 209, the gentleman from In- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I rise in This would allow money directly to diana (Mr. SOUDER) and a Member op- opposition to the amendment. go to those groups. They cannot serv- posed each will control 5 minutes. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ice just their groups. They do not have The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) is recognized to change their internal operations. from Indiana (Mr. SOUDER). for 5 minutes. They cannot proselytize with any of Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield the money or they would lose the myself such time as I may consume. such time as he may consume to the grant. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of gentleman from Texas (Mr. EDWARDS). Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 minutes to this amendment which I am offering Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Chairman, it is my friend and cosponsor, the gen- along with my colleague, the gen- now getting worse. Instead of having 10 tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. minutes on each side of the aisle to de- ENGLISH). ENGLISH), to expand the principle of re- bate the fundamental issue of separa- Mr. ENGLISH. Mr. Chairman, the ligious nondiscrimination to faith- tion of church and State, we now only gentleman from Indiana (Mr. SOUDER) based providers that may desire to have 5 minutes; 5 minutes in the mid- and I read what we vote for, and we are compete for contracts and grants pro- dle of the night, with very few Mem- offering this charitable choice amend- vided through juvenile justice funds. bers here, to discuss something that ment to level the playing field for This principle is known as charitable was so important, that was embedded faith-based organizations by giving choice and was first included in the in the very foundation of the Bill of them the opportunity to compete with welfare reform legislation that became Rights, the principle of separating gov- other private entities and providing ju- law in 1996. That passed this House by ernment’s power from the right of citi- venile justice services. an overwhelming margin, passed the zens in this country to exercise their Religious organizations we know Senate by an overwhelming margin, own religious beliefs. play a critical role in every community and was signed by the President of the I would make a suggestion. If it were and offer unique ways in dealing with United States. my intent to undermine the religious young people’s needs. These organiza- In 1998, this principle was also ex- tolerance for which we have great pride tions should have the right to compete tended to community services block and respect in America, for intent to for these grants. grant legislation. This passed the undermine that tolerance and to create The charitable choice amendment House by an even bigger margin, passed a Northern Ireland in the United empowers faith-based organizations to the Senate by an even bigger margin, States of America, where one religion participate in providing juvenile serv- was signed by the President of the is pitted against another, let me tell ices, but at the same time it guaran- United States. my colleagues how I would do it. tees tolerance of the religious beliefs of Today this House should extend this I would put billions of dollars out on individuals participating in those pro- principle which treats faith-based orga- the table and tell churches and syna- grams. nizations fairly if they choose to com- gogues that they ought to compete now It gives the beneficiary of services pete to provide juvenile justice preven- for that money to help administer so- the right to object to receiving services tion services, as well. cial programs. from a religious organization and find Unfortunately, some have raised con- Five years from now we will have the an alternative provider. No recipients cerns about this approach which treats Baptists arguing with the Methodists, of juvenile justice services will be fairly faith-based groups on the basis of with the Catholics, with the Jews, with forced to accept services from a faith- a distortion of church-state relations. the Hindus, with the Muslims, over based provider. Now, interestingly, the leading Re- who got their proportional share of the Under current law, any organization publican contender for President almighty Federal dollar. who is eligible and receiving a grant George Bush, the Governor of Texas, Since we were not given the privilege from the Federal Government cannot has been a leader in this. But even of having even a 10-minute debate in discriminate against a beneficiary be- more interestingly, Vice President committee on this fundamental issue, I cause of religious affiliation. And this

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00121 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13197 amendment would apply that standard Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, how Gore avoids the word ‘‘evangelism’’ as he to faith-based providers, as well. much time remains on both sides? reiterates the Charitable Choice rules: In addition, it clarifies that a reli- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Faith-based groups are not allowed to pros- elytize or require religious participation or gious provider receiving grant money from Indiana (Mr. SOUDER) has 1 commitment from clients, and comparable, may not discriminate against an em- minute remaining. The gentleman nonreligious services must be available in ployee because of religious affiliation. from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) also has 1 the area. This proposal respects religious di- minute remaining. Despite the objections, Gore sees a broad versity even as it attracts new perspec- Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I yield social consensus recognizing the value of tives for treating juvenile offenders. myself such time as I may consume. faith in guiding people’s lives. ‘‘This is not I challenge my colleagues to look Mr. Chairman, I want to make it any great blinding insight from moi,’’ he into their heart and support this provi- clear that this amendment, as did the joked. sion. amendments in the previous two bills, Asked how his beliefs affect his life, Gore Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 first responded by reading rapidly from the prohibits any funds from being used for final page of his 1992 book Earth in the Bal- minutes to the gentleman from New sectarian worship, instruction or pros- ance: Ecology and the Human Spirit: ‘‘My York (Mr. NADLER). elytization, including conditional. It own faith is rooted in the unshakable belief Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I am also specifically forbids discrimination in God as creator and sustainer, a deeply per- sorry that the gentleman did not yield with regards to beneficiaries of serv- sonal interpretation of, and relationship to my question before because I am not ices. with, Christ.’’ sure what this language means. I would suggest that, while this is Asked again, he lists his churchgoing If it means only that a church or a not much time to do this, this Con- Southern Baptist childhood, education in an synagogue can get money to run a hot elite Episcopal school, a year in a seminary gress, with 346 votes and with 256 votes, after service in Vietnam and a life of reading lunch program or to run a housing previously passed this, that the main religious philosophers. project, so long as it does it in a non- differences of opinion seem to be on the Gore is known as a champion of science, sectarian and non-religious basis and other side of the aisle, also with their but he sees no separation between his cere- does not mix religion into it, then that President and Vice President. And per- bellum and his soul: ‘‘You can have the is the current law and we do not need haps what they really need is a con- Earth circle around the sun and still believe it and we should vote against it be- ference on their side and at the White in God.’’ cause it is unnecessary if that is all it House to discuss their differences. means. [From Brookings Institution, Brookings Review, Mar. 22, 1999] But if it means, as I suspect it b 0040 means, that if the Federal Government This Congress has already spoken NO AID TO RELIGION? runs a hot lunch program that the first twice, and I hope we will speak a third (Ronald J. Unruh and Heidi Rolland) whatever church of east Oshkosh can time in favor of charitable choice. As government struggles to solve a con- apply for a grant and can get that Mr. Chairman, I include the following founding array of poverty-related social problems—deficient education, un- and grant and can say to people who want for the RECORD: underemployment, substance abuse, broken to eat the hot lunch, the condition of [From USA Today, June 1, 1999] families, substandard housing, violent crime, their getting the hot lunch is that they GORE GOES PUBLIC WITH HIS FAITH AS HE inadequate health care, crumbling urban in- listen to their religious sermon, if it PUSHES CHURCH CHARITY PLAN frastructures—it has turned increasingly to means, as I suspect it does, that the (By Cathy Lynn Grossman) the private sector, including a wide range of Congress believes that faith-based Vice President Gore’s recent push to ex- faith-based agencies. As described in Stephen methodology, a belief in God, a belief pand government partnerships with religious Monsma’s When Sacred and Secular Mix, in particular religious doctrines, helps groups reflects a deep religious faith not ev- public funding for nonprofit organizations cure drug addicts and, therefore, we eryone knows about him, he says. with a religious affiliation is surprisingly high. Of the faith-based child service agen- want the churches to do this, then that ‘‘I don’t wear it on my sleeve,’’ he told reli- gion writers in a conversation at the White cies Monsma surveyed, 63 percent reported is a per se violation of the separation that more than 20 percent of their budget of church and State, it is an obvious House on Friday. But, he added, ‘‘The pur- pose of life is to glorify God. I turn to my came from public funds Government’s unusual openness to co- violation of the First Amendment of faith as the bedrock of my approach to any operation with the private religious sector the establishment of religion, and it important question in my life.’’ arises in part from public disenchantment leads to exactly what the gentleman Gore said in a speech May 24 that he wants with its program, but also from an increas- from Texas (Mr. EDWARDS) was talking to expand ‘‘Charitable Choice,’’ the 1996 Re- ingly widespread view that the nation’s publican-sponsored legislation that lets reli- about a few minutes ago. acute social problems have moral and spir- gious groups apply for government contracts The most contentious thing we do itual roots. Acknowledging that social prob- to supply welfare-to-work services. Gore here is decide what percentage of tran- lems arise both from unjust socioeconomic wants to add programs that combat drug sit funds or highway funds New York structures and from misguided personal abuse, homelessness and youth violence. choices, scholars, journalists, politicians, gets as opposed to Pennsylvania or In- As the presidential campaign gets under and community activists are calling atten- diana. We have our fights here about way, the proposal is a move to the political tion to the vital and unique role that reli- that. center for Gore. It is similar to some ideas gious institutions play in social restoration. Can my colleagues imagine if we long discussed by Texas Gov. George W. Though analysis of the outcomes of faith- have the annual appropriations fight Bush, the front-runner for the Republican based social services is as yet incomplete, nomination. And, as Gore’s strategists worry because the Committee on Appropria- the available evidence suggests that some of about whether he carries a taint from Clin- tions thinks the Methodists ought to those services may be more effective and ton administration scandals, it is a way to get 6.2 percent and the Baptists 7.8 per- cost-efficient than similar secular and gov- showcase his commitment to his faith and cent, but of course the Baptists think ernment programs. One oft-cited example is religious values. Teen Challenge, the world’s largest residen- they ought to get more and the Meth- The Interfaith Alliance, a coalition of reli- tial drug rehabilitation program, with a re- odists think they ought to get more gious groups that often sides with the ad- ported rehabilitation rate of over 70 per- and the Baptists less? ministration, raised concerns that involving cent—a vastly higher success rate than most It is the most divisive thing I can religious groups in government programs other programs, at a substantially lower could lead to regulation of those groups. imagine in this country and it is ex- cost. Multiple studies identify religion as a Barry Lynn, director of Americans United actly why the Founding Fathers said key variable in escaping the inner city, re- for Separation of Church and State, is skep- no establishment of religion. We do not covering from alcohol and drug addiction, tical about a requirement that churches sep- want to get into those religious wars keeping marriage together, and staying out arate their social services from their reli- of prison. that have driven Europe apart and gious services. ‘‘I don’t think there’s any have driven Asia apart, and this is the way you can give funds to a church and tell THE NEW COOPERATION AND THE COURTS road that that amendment leads us them they cannot use them for evangelism,’’ Despite this potential, public-private coop- down. Lynn says. erative efforts involving religious agencies

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00122 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13198 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 have been constrained by the current cli- applicants for certain types of social service ligious faith. Expressing explicit faith com- mate of First Amendment interpretation. funding (whether by grant, contract, or mitments of any sort is considered inappro- The ruling interpretive principle on public voucher) on the basis of their religious na- priate. funding of religious nonprofits—following ture. Charitable Choice also shields faith- Second are religiously affiliated providers the metaphor of the wall of separation be- based agencies receiving federal funding (of any religion) who incorporate little in- tween church and state, as set forth in from governmental pressures to alter their herently religious programming and rely pri- Everson v. Board of Education (1947)—is ‘‘no religious character—among other things as- marily on the same medical and social aid to religion.’’ While most court cases have suring their freedom to hire staff who share science methods as a secular agency. Such a involved funding for religious elementary their religious perspective. Charitable program may be provided by a faith commu- and secondary schools, clear implications Choice prohibits religious nonprofits from nity and a staff with strong theological rea- have been drawn for other types of ‘‘perva- using government funds for ‘‘inherently reli- sons for their involvement, and religious sively sectarian’’ organizations. A reli- gious’’ activities—defined as ‘‘sectarian wor- symbols and a chaplain may be present. A re- giously affiliated institution may receive ship, instruction, or proselytization’’—but ligiously affiliated job training program public funds—but only if it is not too reli- allows them to raise money from nongovern- might be housed in a church, and clients gious. ment sources to cover the costs of any such might be informed about the church’s reli- Application of the no-aid policy by the activities they choose to integrate into their gious programs and about the availability of courts, however, has been confusing. The Su- program. Clearly, Charitable Choice departs a chaplain’s services. But the content of the preme Court has provided no single, decisive from the dominant ‘‘pervasively sectarian’’ training curriculum would be very similar to definition of ‘‘pervasively sectarian’’ to de- standard for determining eligibility for gov- that of a secular program. termine which institutions qualify for public ernment funding, which has restricted the Third are exclusively faith-based providers funding, and judicial tests have been applied funding of thoroughly religious organiza- whose programs rely on inherently religious inconsistently. Rulings attempting to sepa- tions. It makes religiosity irrelevant to the activities, making little or no use of tech- rate the sacred and secular aspects of reli- selection of agencies for public-private coop- niques from the medical and social sciences. giously based programs often appear arbi- erative ventures and emphasizes instead the An example would be a prayer support group trary from a faith perspective, and at worst public goods to be achieved by cooperation. and Bible study or seminar that teaches bib- border on impermissible entanglement. As a At the same time, Charitable Choice protects lical principles of work for job-seekers. result of this legal confusion, some agencies clients’ First Amendment rights by ensuring Fourth are holistic faith-based providers receiving public funds pray openly with their that services are not conditional on religious who combine techniques from the medical clients, while other agencies have been preference, that client participation in reli- and social sciences with inherently religious banned even from displaying religious sym- gious activities is voluntary, and that an al- components such as prayer, worship, and the bols. Faith-based child welfare agencies have ternative nonreligious service provider is study of sacred texts. A holistic job training greater freedom in incorporating religious available. program might incorporate explicitly bib- components than religious schools working THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE CASE FOR lical principles into a curriculum that teach- with the same population. Only a few pub- CHARITABLE CHOICE es job skills and work habits, and invite cli- licly funded religious agencies have been Does Charitable Choice violate the First ents to pray with program staff. challenged in the courts, but such leniency Amendment’s non-establishment and free ex- Everyone agrees that public funding of may not continue. While the no-aid principle ercise clauses? only the last two types of providers would holds official sway, faith-based agencies We think not. As long as participants in constitute government establishment of reli- must live with the tension that what the faith-based programs freely choose those gion. But if government (because of the ‘‘no government gives with one hand, it can take programs over a ‘‘secular’’ provider and may aid to religion’’ principle) funds only secular away (with legal damages to boot) with the opt out of particular religious activities programs, is this a properly neutral policy? other. The lack of legal recourse leaves agen- within the program, no one is coerced to par- Not really, for two reasons. First, given cies vulnerable to pressures from public offi- ticipate in religious activity, and freedom of the widespread public funding for private so- cials and community leaders to secularize religion is preserved. As long as government cial services, if government funds only sec- their programs. is equally open to funding programs rooted ular programs, it puts all faith-based pro- The Supreme Court’s restrictive rulings on in any religious perspective whether Islam, grams at a disadvantage. Government would aid to religious agencies stand in tension Christianity, philosophic naturalism, or no tax everyone—both religious and secular— with the government’s movement toward explicit faith perspective—government is not and then fund only allegedly secular pro- grater reliance on private sector social ini- establishing or providing preferential bene- grams. Government-run or government-fund- tiatives. If the no-aid principle were applied fits to any specific religion or to religion in ed programs would be competing in the same consistently against all religiously affiliated general. As long as religious institutions fields with faith-based programs lacking ac- agencies now receiving public funding, gov- maintain autonomy over such crucial areas cess to such support. ernment administration of social services as program content and staffing, the integ- Second, secular programs are not reli- would face significant setbacks. This ambig- rity of their separate identity is maintained. giously neutral. Implicitly, purely ‘‘secular’’ uous state of affairs for public-private co- As long as government funds are exclusively programs convey the message that nonreli- operation has created a climate of mistrust designated for activities that are not inher- gious technical knowledge and skills are suf- and misunderstanding, in which faith-based ently religious, no taxpayer need fear that ficient to address social problems such as agencies are reluctant to expose themselves taxes are paying for religious activity. While low job skills and single parenthood. Implic- to risk of lawsuits, civic authorities are con- Charitable Choice may increase interactions itly, they teach the irrelevance of a spiritual fused about what is permissible, and mul- between government and religious institu- dimension to human life. Although secular tiple pressures push religious organizations tions, these interactions do not in them- programs may not explicitly uphold the te- into hiding or compromising their identity, selves violate religious liberty. Charitable nets of philosophical naturalism and the be- while at the same time, many public officials Choice is designed precisely to discourage lief that nothing exists except the natural and legislators are willing to look the other such interactions from leading to impermis- order, implicitly they support such a way when faith-based social service agencies sible entanglement or establishment of reli- worldview. Rather than being religiously include substantial religious programming. gion. neutral, ‘‘secular’’ programs implicitly con- Fortunately, an alternative principle of Not only does Charitable Choice not vio- vey a set of naturalistic beliefs about the na- First Amendment interpretation, which late proper church-state relations, it ture of persons and ultimate reality that Monsma identifies as the ‘‘equal treatment’’ strengthens First Amendment protections. serve the same function as religion. Vast strain, has recently been emerging in the Su- In the current context of extensive govern- public funding of only secular programs preme Court. This line of reasoning—as in ment funding for a wide array of social serv- means massive government bias in favor of Widmar v. Vincent (1981) and Rosenberger v. ices, limiting government funds to allegedly one particular quasi-religious perspective— Rector (1995)—holds that public access to fa- ‘‘secular’’ programs actually offers pref- namely, philosophical naturalism. cilities or benefits cannot exclude religious erential treatment to one specific religious Religiously affiliated agencies (type two), groups. Although the principle has not yet worldview. which have received large amounts of fund- bet applied to funding for social service In setting forth this argument, we distin- ing in spite of the ‘‘no aid to religion’’ prin- agencies, it could be a precedent for defend- guish four types of social service providers. ciple, pose another problem. These agencies ing cooperation between government and First are secular providers who make no ex- often claim a clear religious identity—in the faith-based agencies where the offer of fund- plicit reference to God or any ultimate val- agency’s history or name, in the religious ing is available to any qualifying agency. ues. People of faith may work in such an identity and motivations of sponsors and The section of the 1996 welfare reform law agency—say, a job training program that some staff, in the provision of a chaplain, or known as Charitable Choice paves the way teaches job skills and work habits—but staff in visible religious symbols. By choice or in for this cooperation by prohibiting govern- use only current techniques from the social response to external pressures, however, lit- ment from discriminating against nonprofit and medical sciences without reference to re- tle in their program content and methods

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00123 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13199 distinguishes many of these agencies from to benefits to any faith-based nonprofit, as providers in its welfare system. For example, their fully secular counterparts. Prayer, long as the money is not used for inherently at the Texas Department of Human Services spiritual counseling, Bible studies, and invi- religious activities and the agency provides (TDHS) approximately 10% of all contracts tations to join a faith community are not the social benefits desired by government. for delivery of services to clients are already featured; in fact most such agencies would Charitable Choice does not ask courts to de- with faith-based organizations. In some cat- consider inherently religious activities inap- cide which agencies are too religious. It egories of contracts, this number has con- propriate to social service programs. clearly indicates the types of ‘‘inherently re- sistently been much higher. Forty percent of Millions of public dollars have gone to sup- ligious’’ activities that are off-limits for gov- contracts for Refugee Assistance programs, port the social service programs of reli- ernment funding. The government must con- and 50% of contracts for Repatriation pro- giously affiliated agencies. There are three tinue to make choices about which faith- grams, are with faith-based vendors. While possible ways to understand this apparent based agencies will receive funds, but eligi- the recent Charitable Choice provision did potential conflict with the ‘‘no aid to reli- bility for funding is to be based on an agen- not introduce Texas to a new way of looking gion’’ principle. Perhaps these agencies are cy’s ability to provide specific public goods, at social service distribution, it did empha- finally only nominally religious, and in fact rather than on its religious character. Chari- size the need to pursue and nurture new and are essentially secular institutions, in which table Choice moves the focus on church-state existing partnerships with faith-based groups case their religious sponsors should be rais- interactions away from the religious beliefs and to renew Texas’ commitment to work ing questions. Or perhaps they are more per- and practices of social service agencies, and with these organizations. vasively religious than they have appeared onto the common goals of helping the poor to government funders, in which case the and strengthening the fabric of public life. On December 17, 1996, in direct response to government should have withheld funding. both the Charitable Choice provision and the A MODEL FOR CHANGE release of the Governor’s Task Force on The third explanation may be that these Our treasured heritage of religious freedom agencies are operating with a specific, wide- Faith-Based Community Service Group Re- demands caution as we contemplate new port, Faith in Action, Texas Governor ly accepted worldview that holds that people forms of church-state cooperation—but cau- may need God for their spiritual well-being, George W. Bush, Jr. issued an Executive tion does not preclude change, if the benefits Order directing state agencies to take af- but that their social problems can be ad- promise to outweigh the dangers. Indeed, dressed exclusively through medical and so- firmative steps to use faith-based organiza- change is required if the pervasively sec- tions to provide welfare-related services. The cial science methods. Spiritual nurture, in tarian standard is actually biased in favor of this worldview, is important in its place, but Governor, asserting that ‘‘government does some religious perspectives and against oth- not have a monopoly on compassion,’’ en- has no direct bearing on achieving public ers. goods like drug rehabilitation or overcoming couraged state agencies to welcome the par- For church and state to cooperate success- ticipation of faith-based organizations in the welfare dependency. Such a worldview ac- fully, both must remain true to their roles knowledges the spiritual dimension of per- distribution of welfare-related care. At the and mission. Religious organizations must TDHS, the response was immediate. On Jan- sons and the existence of a transcendent refrain from accepting public funds if that realm outside of nature. But it also teaches uary 30, 1997, the TDHS Charitable Choice means compromising their beliefs and under- Workgroup was formed to assess the current (whether explicitly or implicitly) a par- mining their effectiveness and integrity. ticular understanding of God and persons, by status of TDHS contracts and faith-based Fortunately, Charitable Choice allows faith- groups, to identify barriers to contracting addressing people’s social needs independ- based agencies to maintain their religious with these groups, and to recommend the ently of their spiritual nature. By allowing identity, while expanding the possibilities most effective ways to fully implement aid to flow only to the religiously affiliated for constructive cooperation between church Charitable Choice. Less than four months agencies holding this understanding, govern- and state in addressing the nation’s most se- later, on April 9, 1997, the TDHS Workgroup ment in effect has given preferential treat- rious social problems. ment to a particular religious worldview. hosted the Statewide Working Conference on Charitable Choice, which was attended by Holistic faith-based agencies (type four), [From the Georgetown Journal, Winter, 1997] on the other hand, operate on the belief that over 200 individuals from faith-based, com- no area of a person’s life—whether psycho- CHARITABLE CHOICE: TEXAS AND THE CHARI- munity and state organizations. TABLE CHOICE PROVISION OF THE PERSONAL logical, physical, social, or economic—can be From its own investigations and from adequately considered in isolation from the RESPONSIBILITY AND WORK OPPORTUNITY ACT OF 1996 input received at the Statewide Conference, spiritual. Agencies operating out of this the Charitable Choice Workgroup promul- (Lillemor McGoldrick) worldview consider the explicitly spiritual gated recommendations to ensure that no components of their programs—used in con- (Summary: * * * In Texas, contracting with real or perceived barriers exist that could junction with conventional, secular social faith-based organizations to provide social discourage faith-based organizations from service methods—as fundamental to their services is nothing new.... For example, at working with the state in the distribution of ability to achieve the secular social goals de- the Texas Department of Human Services social services. One of the primary barriers sired by government. Government has in the (TDHS) approximately 10% of all contracts to working with faith-based organizations is past considered such agencies ineligible for for delivery of services to clients are already the common perception that, by either con- public funding, though they may provide the with faith-based organizations * * * One of tracting with the state or accepting publicly same services as their religiously affiliated the primary barriers to working with faith- funded vouchers, the faith-based group will counterparts. based organizations is the common percep- have to sacrifice aspects of its religious in- Some claim that allowing public funds to tion that, by either contracting with the tegrity. The Charitable Choice Workgroup be channeled through a holistic religious state or accepting publicly funded vouchers, has sought to assure faith-based organiza- program would threaten the First Amend- the faith-based group will have to sacrifice tions that religious social service providers ment, while funding religiously affiliated aspects of its religious integrity.... TDHS are not required to secularize their programs agencies does not. But the pervasively sec- has held many local town meetings to en- when working with state agencies. TDHS has tarian standard has also constituted a gen- courage partnerships with smaller, locally- held many local town meetings to encourage uine, though more subtle, establishment of based charities, examined its contract lan- partnerships with smaller, locally-based religion, because it supports one type of reli- guage for potential bias and barriers, as- charities, examined its contract language for gious worldview while penalizing holistic be- sessed its current contracts, and worked to potential bias and barriers, assessed its cur- liefs. It should not be the place of govern- connect grassroots organizations with one ment to judge between religious another.... While the effect of the new rent contracts, and worked to connect grass- worldviews—but this is what the no-aid prin- laws and agency efforts to promote Chari- roots organizations with one another. ciple has required the courts to do. Selective table Choice in Texas is not yet measurable, In June 1997, Governor Bush further pro- religious perspectives on the administration the intent is clear. Texas is embracing its moted Charitable Choice by signing four of social services are deemed permissible for tradition of working with faith-based organi- bills into law that encourage religious orga- government to aid. Those who believe that zations to help those in need receive assist- nizations to provide welfare-related social explicitly religious content does not play a ance. Depending on who you talk to, this services to needy Texans by quelling fears central role in addressing social problems could be a partnership made in .... well, that the presence of state money will de- are free to act on this belief with govern- Heaven.) stroy the religious mission of faith-based or- ment support; those who believe that spir- In Texas, contracting with faith-based or- ganizations. One of the new laws authorizes itual nurture is an integral aspect of social ganizations to provide social services is the private accreditation of religious transformation are not. nothing new. Well before the Charitable childcare centers, so that these childcare The alternative is to pursue a policy that Choice provision of the Personal Responsi- centers do not have to be licensed by the discriminates neither against nor in favor of bility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996 was state. The accrediting agency does, however, any religious perspective. Charitable Choice introduced, Texas has been making the have to be approved by the State Depart- enables the government to offer equal access choice to involve faith-based social service ment of Protective and Regulatory Services.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00124 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13200 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 Another law encourages prisons, juvenile de- grams have had to make difficult choices. tion on how to approach the job search proc- tention centers and law enforcement agen- Two such programs in Baltimore, both work- ess, on how to behave on the job, and general cies to use the services of faith-based organi- ing to transfer people from the welfare rolls training related to the workplace and the zations in rehabilitation programs. The Gov- onto corporate payrolls, have made different type of self-discipline necessary to find and ernor also signed a bill exempting chemical choices. Accepting state funds under ‘‘chari- keep a job. The staff at Payne even assisted dependency programs run by religious groups table choice’’ has allowed at least one orga- her in setting up interviews. Ms. Beckwith from state licensure and regulations. The nization to create remarkable successes. interviewed with a dean at Johns Hopkins final law provides legal immunity to individ- The Payne Memorial AME Church has an University, explained Payne Memorial’s pro- uals who donate medical supplies and equip- active ministry providing food, clothing, gram, and noted that she was its first grad- ment to nonprofit medical providers. emergency loans, child care, and assistance uate. The dean was enthusiastic about the While the effect of the new laws and agen- with job placement to Baltimore’s poor resi- Payne Memorial program and Ms. cy efforts to promote Charitable Choice in dents. While the church community has been Beckwith’s success. In offering her the job, Texas is not yet measurable, the intent is generous in its support of these charitable the dean commented that Marsha would clear. Texas is embracing its tradition of efforts, Payne Memorial was the first faith- have to ‘‘set an example of what graduates of working with faith-based organizations to based program in Maryland to apply for the program can do in the workplace.’’ Ms. help those in need receive assistance. De- state funding under the charitable choice Beckwith has now been working for over two pending on who you talk to, this could be a program. According to Marilyn Akin, the Ex- months at Johns Hopkins University, and is partnership made in * * * well, Heaven. ecutive Director of the Payne Memorial Out- setting just the type of example the people reach program, the church’s program fits at Payne hoped for. Not only is her work pro- [From the Georgetown Journal, Winter, 1997] right in with the state program’s goals; ‘‘The gressing well, but she now also volunteers at CHARITABLE CHOICE: MARYLAND’S IMPLEMEN- state does not know how it [can move Payne, helping and encouraging others who TATION OF THE CHARITABLE CHOICE PROVI- enough] people off welfare . . . to reach its are going though the process she has com- SION: THE STORY OF ONE WOMAN’S SUCCESS goals. In addition, everyone has been dis- pleted. She is pleased that she can be a role (James D. Standish) appointed with past jobs programs. There is model, but gives the credit to God. (Summary: . . . As ‘‘charitable choice’’ now a feeling that faith-based organizations Before enrolling at Payne, Ms. Beckwith funding has become available, faith-based may be able to provide . . . a dimension that had gone through a Christian rebirth. ‘‘I had welfare-to-work programs have had to make the state programs were unable to provide.’’ strayed away from God, but He directed me difficult choices.... While the church com- So far the application and administration to Payne Memorial. He has opened many munity has been generous in its support of process of the program does not appear to be doors for me. It has not been easy, but I al- these charitable efforts, Payne Memorial entangled in bureaucracy. Payne Memorial’s ways know who to call now,’’ she says. She was the first faith-based program in Mary- application for funds was less than twenty- is emphatic, however, that the program at land to apply for state funding under the five pages in length, far less burdensome Payne does not push religion on its partici- charitable choice program.... One of the than applications to other programs with pants. ‘‘I benefited from the faith-based prin- first clients to benefit from Maryland’s char- which Ms. Akin has had experience. The ap- ciples. But many of the clients are worldly itable choice program was Marsha plication was sent to the Baltimore City De- people with little religious interest. . . . Reli- Beckwith.... The staff at Payne even as- partment of Social Services, then on to the gion isn’t pushed on you at Payne—faith is sisted her in setting up interviews.... De- State Board of Public Works which approved there if you want it. But you can go through spite these concerns, Maryland is committed the proposal. The program operates under a the program without being a Christian. As to charitable choice as part of its overall ef- contract model: the church receives a pay- Payne receives state money, they can’t force fort to decentralize welfare-to-work pro- ment for each person who finishes the Payne the religion on clients.’’ She notes that some grams. Connie Tolbert, a spokesperson for Memorial job training process, an additional participants may feel uncomfortable with the Maryland Department of Human Re- payment for each trainee it places in a com- the standards of the program, though, which sources, says that Governor Parris munity job for thirteen weeks, and a further include strict dress requirements and a ban Glendening is very enthusiastic about the payment if the trainee is still in that job on the use of profanity. charitable choice program.... Because after twenty-six weeks. The only frustration Ms. Beckwith’s story may help others Maryland’s goal is to place the administra- Ms. Akin reports is the delay between the make the transition from welfare to work tion of the charitable choice program at the time that the church invests in the recruit- more easily. She has been asked by the local level, the State divides the federal ment and training, and the time of the pay- Transportation Research Board, a think- grant into mini-block grants to each county ment. As with most charities, she notes, tank based in Washington, D.C., to partici- which then decides how best to use the Payne Memorial does not have a large cash pate in a conference on the transportation money.... According to Ms. Tolbert, chari- reserve so the time delay creates cash flow problems faced by people seeking to leave table choice funding helped the State to problems. the welfare rolls. It is an issue with which meet the federally mandated goal of getting In sum, however, Ms. Akin and the church Ms. Beckwith is intimately familiar; she 25% of its base year welfare recipients em- staff are very excited about the program. presently takes eleven buses twice a week to ployed or into work training by the end of They view it as one more way in which the get to work, visit her church and assist at 1997.... church can achieve its mission of helping Payne. Waiting for buses eats up much of her Jonathan Friedman’s Note, ‘‘The Chari- those in need, by helping people who cannot day. The wasted time and the cost of public table Choice Provision of the Federal Wel- be effectively served by any government pro- transportation are problems facing many fare Act and the Establishment Clause,’’ ad- gram. The charitable choice funds have en- people who attempt to join the workforce. dresses the many constitutional issues impli- abled the program to expand dramatically in While the staff at Payne Memorial are very cated by the Charitable Choice Provision of size. Denise Harper, Assistant Director of the encouraged by Ms. Beckwith’s story, they re- the Welfare Act of 1996. Under the new Wel- program, notes that although church mem- alistically note that she is an exceptionally fare Act, Charitable Choice not only permits bers have invested an impressive $150,000 in motivated participant. It is unclear how states to provide social services through con- the program to date, this amount is dwarfed many more clients will share Ms. Beckwith’s tracts and voucher arrangements with chari- by Payne’s $1.5 million, two-year contract success, but as welfare funding and avail- table and religious organizations, but also with the state. ability are reduced, Ms. Beckwith’s success allows these organizations to maintain their One of the first clients to benefit from story will need to be replicated thousands of religious character while administering so- Maryland’s charitable choice program was times. The ability of welfare participants cial services. Marsha Beckwith. Ms. Beckwith came to and organizations like Payne Memorial to The following three essays look at Chari- Payne Memorial after completing another ensure this replication is speculative at best, table Choice as it is, or may be, imple- faith-based program. She had spent five particularly if the economy declines in the mented. Through these essays many voices years on public assistance, and needed help future. But for now, this one woman’s re- emerge: the voice of a benefit recipient who in moving back into the work world when a markable transition to independence pro- receives social services through a faith-based friend told her about the new program at vides hope that charitable choice can help to provider, the voices of directors of charitable Payne Memorial AME Church. Although the break the pattern of welfare dependency. organizations that provide social services, program was so new that no one at the social Despite the positive experience of Payne the voices of states embracing Charitable services office knew about it, Ms. Beckwith Memorial, not all faith-based providers are Choice, and the voice of a grassroots advo- managed to obtain a referral and enrolled in ready to take the plunge into state funding. cate cautioning against the Charitable the program. Genesis Jobs is a multi-faith organization Choice movement. Hopefully, these essays Ms. Beckwith knew she needed to improve that specializes in training unemployed peo- will provide a fuller understanding of what her skills, especially her computer skills, in ple and placing them in jobs. Emily Thayer, Charitable Choice means in practice.) order to re-enter the workforce. The program Director of the program, says that Genesis As ‘‘charitable choice’’ funding has become at Payne not only gave her computer in- Jobs has not applied for any state funding. available, faith-based welfare-to-work pro- struction, but also provided her with instruc- ‘‘When we look for funding,’’ she states, ‘‘we

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00125 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13201 look for support from private donors. We one run by Payne Memorial, charitable It is now in order to consider Amend- have had fifteen other organizations call us choice funds are being used by church-based ment No. 30 printed in part A of House to ask whether we would partner with them groups to administer child-specific state ben- Report 106–1–86. in their application for the charitable choice efits and transitional-support benefits. Ac- funding. We have agreed to help them, but cording to Ms. Tolbert, charitable choice AMENDMENT NO. 30 OFFERED BY MR. SOUDER we are not looking for any funds ourselves.’’ funding helped the State to meet the feder- Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I offer Ms. Thayer acknowledges, though, that the ally mandated goal of getting 25% of its base an amendment. new charitable choice provisions open the year welfare recipients employed or into The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The door to public funding for organizations like work training by the end of 1997. By October Clerk will designate the amendment. hers. ‘‘Until now, if we were faith-based, the 1997, the state had already reduced its wel- The text of the amendment is as fol- government had an allergy to us . . . this re- fare rolls by 36%. Despite the controversy lows: leases us from the bondage of never taking and practical hurdles, charitable choice public funds.’’ seems to offer a new hope to Maryland’s pol- Part A amendment No. 30 offered by Mr. Ms. Thayer’s reasons for staying away icy-makers and its poor. Whether that hope SOUDER: from state funds are practical. The extra will be fulfilled remains to be seen. At the end of the bill, add the following funds would boost an organization attempt- (and make such technical and conforming Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield changes as may be appropriate): ing the mammoth task of meeting the needs myself such time as I may consume. of Baltimore’s unemployed, but state funds I would ask the gentleman from Indi- come with strings attached. ‘‘We simply SEC. 3. NONDISCRIMINATION BASED ON RELI- don’t have the resources to make the grant ana if the legislative intent is to over- GIOUS OR MORAL BELIEFS. applications. Maybe more importantly, with turn the present state of Supreme The Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Pre- any state program, there are always compli- Court law or to read this amendment vention Act of 1974 (42 U.S.C. 5601 et seq.) is ance issues,’’ she notes. With only five full- in the light of the present state of the amended by inserting before title III the fol- time employees at Genesis Jobs, it is not Supreme Court law in terms of perva- lowing: surprising that Ms. Thayer is unwilling to sively sectarian programs. ‘‘NONDISCRIMINATION BASED ON RELIGIOUS OR divert staff attention to the application Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, will the MORAL BELIEFS process, and to ensuring compliance with gentleman yield? ‘‘SEC. 299J. None of the funds appropriated program rules that may constantly be in Mr. SCOTT. I yield to the gentleman to carry out this Act may be used, directly flux. She also feels that focusing the atten- or indirectly, to discriminate against, deni- tion of her small organization on applying to from Indiana. Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I want grate, or otherwise undermine the religious governmental programs and complying with or moral beliefs of juveniles who participate their regulations will dim its focus on mov- to confess up front that I do not under- in programs for which financial assistance is ing people from welfare into work. She stand all the details and implications provided under this Act or of the parents or states simply ‘‘We’re here to do what govern- of what the gentleman is saying. legal guardians of such juveniles.’’. ment can’t.’’ For Genesis Jobs, that means Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, my ques- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- relying exclusively on funding from the pri- tion is whether the gentleman wants ant to House Resolution 209, the gen- vate sector. this amendment read under the present tleman from Indiana (Mr. SOUDER) and Along with the practical difficulties of ac- state of the Supreme Court interpreta- cepting state funds, there are concerns that a Member opposed each will control 10 tions or whether the amendment is de- the use of state dollars to support church- minutes. signed to try to overturn Supreme based organizations will blur the separation The Chair recognizes the gentleman Court decisions in funding religious or- of church and state. In time, state funding from Indiana (Mr. SOUDER). may corrupt churches that become depend- ganizations. Mr SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I yield ent on state money, and may draw religious Mr. SOUDER. The amendment myself such time as I may consume. groups into politics to ensure that the speaks for itself, and that will obvi- Mr. Chairman, this amendment is money supply does not disappear. Churches ously be determined by who this ad- very straightforward and simple, that take state money may need to make ministration and others would make difficult choices down the road, either to re- speaks for itself. My amendment reads the grants to, and their potential duce dramatically their social programs, or simply: would be challenges if, in fact, people to compromise their religious beliefs to ac- None of the funds appropriated to believe it is not within the current in- commodate state regulations. Critics of carry out this act may be used directly terpretations of the Supreme Court. charitable choice also point to examples of or indirectly to discriminate against, churches being forced to rename their pro- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield grams, or to turn pictures of Jesus to face back the balance of my time. denigrate or otherwise undermine the the wall, as evidence that state regulations Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Chairman, con- religious or moral beliefs of juveniles may force programs to compromise their re- sidering the important nature of this who participate in programs for which ligious convictions. But proponents of chari- issue, I ask unanimous consent that we financial assistance is provided under table choice insist that with the new law, be allowed an additional 30 minutes to this act or of the parents or legal and with a new appreciation for what guardians of such juveniles. church-based programs can do for welfare re- try to answer the questions that the author of the amendment just said he I believe that we have had cases that cipients, states will accommodate some reli- are marginal and difficult to sort gious expression in government-funded pro- could not? grams. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. through, but that in our enthusiasm to Despite these concerns, Maryland is com- LAHOOD). Is there objection to the re- fix some problems often we go to the mitted to charitable choice as part of its quest of the gentleman from Texas? other extreme, and in the case of the overall effort to decentralize welfare-to-work Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I ob- juvenile justice bill, some programs de- programs. Connie Tolbert, a spokesperson for ject. signed to reduce the potential for the Maryland Department of Human Re- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Objec- youth violence by promoting tolerance sources, says that Governor Parris tion is heard. have the effect of undermining the reli- Glendening is very enthusiastic about the gious beliefs of children and their par- charitable choice program. ‘‘In the past,’’ The question is on the amendment she notes, ‘‘we’ve never really placed any ex- offered by the gentleman from Indiana ents. Sometimes the promotion of tol- pectation on welfare recipients. The church- (Mr. SOUDER). erance overrides the religious beliefs of es are in the communities, they know the The question was taken; and the students and their parents. Instead of welfare recipients and they are able to work Chairman pro tempore announced that merely encouraging people of all back- with them. By partnering with these commu- the ayes appeared to have it. grounds and preferences to get along in nity based programs, we can be much more Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I demand a civil society, the programs attempt effective.’’ Because Maryland’s goal is to a recorded vote. to actually change the moral beliefs place the administration of the charitable The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- that are taught at home. My amend- choice program at the local level, the State divides the federal grant into mini-block ant to House Resolution 209, further ment protects the religious freedom of grants to each county which then decides proceedings on the amendment offered young people and their parents or how best to use the money. Along with pro- by the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. guardians by simply stating that none viding for job development centers, like the SOUDER) will be postponed. of the funds used to carry out this act

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00126 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13202 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 may be used to discriminate against or row morning at 8 o’clock you will be in religious communities looked at some otherwise undermine the participant’s the Congressional prayer breakfast. of that curriculum, and they said, religious beliefs. How can you oppose this amendment?’’ ‘‘You know, we think they went a little I also want to thank the gentleman Mr. Chairman, the reason I oppose bit too far. In this curriculum they from Pennsylvania (Mr. GREENWOOD), this amendment is because, God will- were meant to say that there are ways and the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. ing, I will be in the Congressional pray- that religious organizations can be- SCOTT) and the gentleman from Penn- er breakfast tomorrow morning, and come intolerant and promote intoler- sylvania (Mr. GOODLING), who have my religion tells me that when we ance, and it appeared to some that that worked for the past month to try to make an agreement, whether it is with curriculum was generalizing in a way work out compromise language. I am the minority or with anyone else, it is that some folks felt offended by, as if not unhappy with the compromise lan- a good faith arrangement, and if it is religion implied some kind of intoler- guage we have. I reserve my right to going to be broken, then I should have ance and bias. the opportunity to tell the minority as offer an amendment, which I have. I be- b 0050 lieve that the compromise that is in a matter of fact before their oppor- the base bill is an acceptable com- tunity to offer amendments is pre- So I worked very hard with the Tra- promise. I believe this is a little more cluded because they are not printed in ditional Values Coalition, with the direct, and that is why I offer this the RECORD. gentleman from Indiana (Mr. SOUDER) amendment. I understand that apparently this and with the gentleman from Pennsyl- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance was going to be made in order by some- vania (Mr. GOODLING) and with my of my time. body a week ago. Well, if that is true, good friend, the gentleman from Vir- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is the then I should have had the courtesy of ginia (Mr. SCOTT), and we crafted lan- gentleman from Virginia opposed to knowing so I could tell the minority guage, language in the Goodling the amendment? that what we agreed to in good faith is amendment that we will offer tomor- Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I am op- now broken. Therefore they should go row. It has been accepted by the Re- posed to the amendment and claim the and offer all their amendments. publican side, it has been accepted by time in opposition. What the minority agreed to was the Democratic side, and it has been The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The that they would not offer gun lan- accepted by the administration. It is Chair recognizes the gentleman from guage, they would not offer hate lan- only marginally different than the lan- Virginia. guage, if as a matter of fact we settled guage that the gentleman from Indian Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 on something that the gentleman from (Mr. SOUDER) offers, and the gentleman minutes to the gentleman from New Pennsylvania (Mr. GREENWOOD) and the is gracious in his comments to ac- Jersey (Mr. PAYNE). gentleman from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) knowledge that. Mr. PAYNE. Mr. Chairman, allow me agreed to and I modified which said Mr. Chairman, we think that we need to speak briefly on my opposition to materials produced or distributed using a ‘‘no’’ vote on this Souder amendment this amendment. funds appropriated to carry out this tomorrow, because we think that ‘‘The Office of Juvenile Justice and act for the purpose of preventing hate eliminating that amendment and tak- Delinquency Prevention from pro- crime should be respectful of the diver- ing the agreed-to language to con- ducing literature which would dis- sity of deeply held religious beliefs and ference is the simplest and most direct criminate against, denigrate or other- shall make it clear that for most peo- way to resolve this very contentious wise undermine the religious or moral ple religious faith is not associated issue, and so we will be asking Mem- beliefs of any juvenile or adult in the with prejudice and intolerance. bers on both sides of the aisle tomor- programs authorized in this bill’’ is That is what they agreed to, and, as row to vote in the negative. certainly just simply too broad and too I said, my religion tells me that I Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 vague, it is too equivocal. The nature should be here right at this particular minutes to the gentleman from New of this amendment could be construed time opposing this amendment because York (Mr. NADLER). to admit any category, race, religion, we are breaking an agreement that we Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, this gender, sexual orientation from inclu- had with the minority in the com- amendment is an impossible amend- sion in hate crimes. At a time when vi- mittee. I cannot operate a committee ment to know what it means or to en- olence against gays and minorities is that way. I have to lose all my respect force. It says, no funds should be used becoming more frequent there is no on either side of the aisle if, as a mat- directly or indirectly to discriminate place for benign legislation. We must ter of fact, I do not keep my word. against, denigrate, or otherwise under- have strong and direct legislation in an So I would ask everyone to oppose mine the moral beliefs of juveniles who effort to rid our Nation of hate crimes. the amendment simply because we are participate in these programs. Who And I would also like to say that I breaking faith with an agreement that knows what the religious or moral be- add my remarks regarding the previous we negotiated in good faith. liefs of the juveniles that participate in amendment that undermines the major Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I re- these programs are. precepts that our Nation was founded serve the balance of my time. We had a When I went to school, I was taught on, the separation of church and state. number of speakers earlier in the day, the Declaration of Independence in The previous amendment seeks to in- but at this point I have no additional school, that all men are created equal. corporate religion into our justice sys- speakers, but I reserve the balance be- I was taught that we should not dis- tem. Both of these entities have dis- cause I may want to talk. criminate on the basis of race, creed, tinct places in our society and are not Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 color or sex, and that we should not to be combined. Religious freedom is a minutes to the gentleman from Penn- denigrate other people because of their core of our Nation and must be pre- sylvania (Mr. GREENWOOD). religious views. The Reverend Louis served at all costs. Charitable choice is Mr. GREENWOOD. Mr. Chairman, Farrakhan says that whites are devils simply going to be divisive. among the allowable uses of funds of and that Judaism is gutter religion. With that I express my opposition to the Juvenile Justice Act are funds that Suppose adherents of his religion are both of these amendments. can be used to create programs to pre- juveniles that participate in these pro- Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I re- vent hate crimes, to prevent crimes grams. Are we to use funds that would serve the balance of my time. that are based on prejudice. It is a good undermine their beliefs by teaching Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 program. The Federal Government, the that all men are created equal, that we minutes to the gentleman from Penn- Office of Juvenile Justice and Delin- should respect each other because his sylvania (Mr. GOODLING). quency Prevention, contracted with an adherents are among those who partici- Mr. GOODLING. Mr. Chairman, organization to create a curriculum, pate in these programs? That is what someone will say, ‘‘But, BILL, tomor- and some of my friends in the various this says.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00127 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 June 16, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE 13203 The fact is, it is impossible to know arguing exceptionalism, and I under- lic arena, and I view it as trying to re- whose beliefs we are offending, because stand the danger here is that this could claim the religious freedom that our no one inquires, nor should we inquire, protect exceptionalism. Founding Fathers gave us, not to im- of the beliefs of juveniles who come What we are concerned about, many pose any one sectarian approach. And, into these programs. Americans of many different faiths is with the diversity of religion in this So this amendment is simply non- that, in fact, there is an overt attempt country, which we did not necessarily sense in what it says. I do not know, it on a number of very difficult issues in have at the beginning of our Nation to may have a well-intended purpose, but our society where there has not been a the same degree, we need to respect the way it is written, it is impossible of moral resolution or unlike what has that. But part of that respect is to say, enforcement, impossible of under- happened in racism, unlike what has we also have a majority religion that is standing, and perverse in its operation, happened with sexual abuse or different being stomped on. and ought to be rejected. things, but where there has not been Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, if the Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 resolution to therefore use in the name gentleman would yield to me once minutes to the gentlewoman from Cali- of neutrality the imposition of other again, would the gentleman agree that fornia (Ms. WATERS). people’s moral views. I do not under- if we kept religion out of our public Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in stand, as I asked in the hearing, why schools, we would not have this worry? opposition to this amendment. we have to take a stand and why we If we followed the intent of the Con- I would hope that even if my col- cannot say people morally differ on stitution for separation of church and leagues on the other side of the aisle do this, but regardless of one’s moral state where we were not in any way not agree with those of us who believe views, one has no right to harass, to teaching, imposing religion on anybody that this is a real infringement, and we physically assault, to do anything to at any time, we would not have this believe that it is confusing, and we be- denigrate another individual, even if worry? lieve that this is an attempt by some one believes their behavior is immoral. Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, re- to get rid of the values that we have Because what we need is a civil society claiming my time, there is a difference built up dealing with intolerance, et that understands and respects individ- between imposing and saying we meant cetera. Just do it because the gen- uals, but we do not need a school sys- to exclude it. The Founding Fathers all tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. GOOD- tem or a society that undermines those debated religion at all times. It is a LING) asks you to do it, and he says basic principles. fundamental part of all of us, and that you are breaking faith with Mem- Mr. Chairman, I appreciate, as I said, should be. What we should respect is bers on this side of the aisle when you the negotiations that went on, and I the diversity of other people’s points of said you would not do this kind of want to make it clear. I never gave up view. It was not meant to exclude from thing. my right to offer an amendment, the public arena, or in fact we do have I too do not know what you mean though I did not think my amendment a religion which is secular humanism. about the religious beliefs of any juve- would be made in order, and we do have Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- nile or adult in the program. I do know some confusion. But I did not break ance of my time. that at one time there was a religion any word in the process of the negotia- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman that taught that black people did not tions. from Virginia (Mr. SCOTT) has 1 minute have souls. So I do not know what the Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, will the remaining. Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I yield gentleman is talking about. He is tin- gentleman yield? Mr. SOUDER. I yield to the gentle- myself the remainder of my time. kering with something that he does not woman from California. We do not need to restate all of the know what he is doing. Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, the examples of hate crimes that have been I would suggest that the gentleman gentleman has said that he really does perpetrated over the last few years, or needs to get out of the business, num- not know what this amendment does, even few weeks and months. Hate ber one, of trying to interject religion is that correct? crime prevention programs constitute into government and trying to get it Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I know an allowable use of the money under paid for by government, your teach- exactly what the amendment does, but the Juvenile Justice Delinquency Pre- ings, et cetera. I would suggest that I agree that it could be falsely inter- vention Act. We ought not sabotage the gentleman back off all of this, be- preted by some people. the hate crime prevention programs by cause he is placing us in the kind of Ms. WATERS. Would the gentleman getting into a situation where one has situation where there will be con- agree that the Constitution of the to have anyone’s religion that believes frontation around these kinds of issues. United States of America basically that certain groups are not to be re- I would simply say to my colleagues protects religious freedom? spected or to be disrespected, in fact. on the other side of the aisle that they Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I be- That is where some of the hate comes have gone too far, and they are tread- lieve the Constitution was designed to from. ing on the dangerous realm of the un- do that, but it is not currently doing What these programs do is to try to known and they should not do that. I so. teach people, as the gentleman from would hope that my colleagues would Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, if the New York mentioned, that people are take the wise advice of the gentleman gentleman will continue to yield, does equal and ought to be respected. If from Pennsylvania (Mr. GOODLING) and the gentleman believe that if that is one’s religion tells us something dif- drop this amendment this evening. what the Constitution is designed to ferent, we still ought to be able to have Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I yield do, that we should all respect that, not hate crime prevention programs so myself such time as I may consume. try and rewrite the Constitution, not that we can reduce the incidence of Let me reiterate here that I am not try and recreate ways by which we can hate crimes. simply going to stand in front of this basically say some religion is all right, Mr. Chairman, I would hope that this body and say that this is an extremely and some is not all right? amendment would be defeated. We have clear amendment, and it will obviously Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, if I language in there that orders us to be go to conference, and we have been could reclaim my time, I absolutely do respectful of people’s religion, but if we working on this language. But I had an not believe we should ever say as a per- have religions that just hate people, uncomfortability, though I signed off son who grew up in an evangelical then we ought to be able to go along on the amendment, as to what exactly church, and I understand the wall of with hate crime prevention programs people were objecting to on this, be- separation was meant to protect the anyway. cause the inverse of this is that one be- evangelicals from a State church. I lieves that one can discriminate have no interest in a State church. b 0100 against, denigrate, and undermine the But I also believe that it did not The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. All religious and moral values. I am not mean to exclude religion from the pub- time has expired on the amendment.

VerDate Aug 04 2004 15:22 Oct 02, 2004 Jkt 069102 PO 00000 Frm 00128 Fmt 0688 Sfmt 0634 E:\BR99\H16JN9.004 H16JN9 13204 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE June 16, 1999 The question is on the amendment The motion was agreed to; accord- Environmental Protection Agency, transmit- offered by the gentleman from Indiana ingly (at 1 o’clock and 2 minutes a.m.), ting the Agency’s final rule—Approval and (Mr. SOUDER). the House adjourned until today, Promulgation of Implementation Plans The question was taken; and the Thursday, June 17, 1999, at 10 a.m. State of Kansas [KS 078–1078; FRL–6361–8] re- ceived June 14, 1999, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. Chairman pro tempore announced that f 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Commerce. the noes appeared to have it. EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, 2629. A letter from the Chairman, Federal Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I de- ETC. Energy Regulatory Commission, transmit- mand a recorded vote. ting the Commission’s final rule—Complaint The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- Under clause 8 of rule XII, executive Procedures [Docket No. RM98–13–000; Order ant to House Resolution 209, further communications were taken from the No.] received May 14, 1999, pursuant to 5 proceedings on the amendment offered Speaker’s table and referred as follows: U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on by the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. 2618. A letter from the Director, Office of Commerce. 2630. A letter from the Chairman, Nuclear SOUDER) will be postponed. Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs, Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Regulatory Commission, transmitting a Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I draft of proposed legislation to authorize ap- move that the Committee do now rise. transmitting the Commission’s final rule— Fees for Applications for Contract Market propriations for the Nuclear Regulatory The motion was agreed to. Designation, Audits of Leverage Transaction Commission for fiscal year 2000; to the Com- Accordingly, the Committee rose; Merchants, and Reviews of the Rule Enforce- mittee on Commerce. and the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. ment Programs of Contract Markets and 2631. A letter from the Director, Defense MCCOLLUM) having assumed the chair, Registered Futures Associations—received Security Cooperation Agency, transmitting notification concerning the Department of Mr. LAHOOD, Chairman pro tempore of May 24, 1999, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Army’s Proposed Letter(s) of Offer and the Committee of the Whole House on 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Agri- culture. Acceptance (LOA) to Greece for defense arti- the State of the Union, reported that cles and services (Transmittal No. 99–16), that Committee, having had under con- 2619. A communication from the President of the United States, transmitting a request pursuant to 22 U.S.C. 2776(b); to the Com- sideration the bill (H.R. 1501) to pro- for funds to support critical national secu- mittee on International Relations. vide grants to ensure increased ac- rity activities; (H. Doc. No. 106–83); to the 2632. A letter from the Assistant Secretary countability for juvenile offenders, had Committee on Appropriations and ordered to for Legislative Affairs, Department of State, come to no resolution thereon. be printed. transmitting a proposed Manufacturing Li- cense Agreement with Norway, pursuant to f 2620. A letter from the Assistant Secretary for Legislative Affairs, Department of State, 22 U.S.C. 2776(c); to the Committee on Inter- APPOINTMENT AS MEMBER OF transmitting the annual report of the exer- national Relations. COMMISSION ON INTERNATIONAL cise of U.S. rights and responsibilities under 2633. A communication from the President RELIGIOUS FREEDOM the Panama Canal Treaty of 1977, pursuant of the United States, transmitting the report to 22 U.S.C. 3871; to the Committee on Armed on progress toward a negotiated settlement The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without Services. of the Cyprus question, covering the period objection, and pursuant to section 2621. A letter from the Acting Assistant February 1, 1999, to March 31, 1999, pursuant 201(b) of the International Religious Secretary of Defense (Force Management to 22 U.S.C. 2373(c); to the Committee on Freedom Act of 1998 (22 U.S.C. 6431) and Policy), transmitting the annual report on International Relations. upon the recommendation of the mi- the number of waivers granted to aviators 2634. A letter from the Assistant Secretary, who fail to meet operational flying duty re- Legislative Affairs, Department of State, nority leader, the Chair announces the transmitting a report to Congress on Gov- Speaker’s appointment of the following quirements; to the Committee on Armed Services. ernment of Cuba compliance with the U.S.- member to a 2-year term on the Com- 2622. A letter from the Chairman, National Cuba migration agreements of September mission on International Religious Credit Union Administration, transmitting 1994 and May 2, 1995; to the Committee on Freedom on the part of the House: the proposed rule on Prompt Corrective Ac- International Relations. Rabbi David Saperstein, Washington, tion; to the Committee on Banking and Fi- 2635. A letter from the Chairman, Council DC. nancial Services. of the District of Columbia, transmitting a There was no objection. 2623. A letter from the Secretary, Depart- copy of D.C. Act 13–78, ‘‘General Obligation ment of Education, transmitting Final Regu- BONDs and BOND Anticipation Notes for Fis- f lations—William D. Ford Federal Direct cal Years 1999–2004 Authorization Act of LEAVE OF ABSENCE Loan Program (RIN: 1840–AC57), pursuant to 1999,’’ pursuant to D.C. Code section 1– 20 U.S.C. 1232(f); to the Committee on Edu- 233(c)(1); to the Committee on Government By unanimous consent, leave of ab- cation and the Workforce. Reform. sence was granted to: 2624. A letter from the Secretary, Depart- 2636. A letter from the Chairman, Council Mr. THOMAS (at the request of Mr. ment of Education, transmitting Notice of of the District of Columbia, transmitting a ARMEY) for today and the balance of Funding Priority for Fiscal Years 1999–2000 copy of D.C. Act 13–76, ‘‘Apostolic Church of the week on account of a death in the for a Disability and Rehabilitation Research Washington, D.C., Equitable Real Property Tax Relief Act of 1999,’’ pursuant to D.C. family. Project, pursuant to 20 U.S.C. 1232(f); to the Committee on Education and the Workforce. Code section 1–233(c)(1); to the Committee on f 2625. A letter from the Assistant General Government Reform. SPECIAL ORDERS GRANTED Counsel for Regulations, Special Education 2637. A letter from the Chairman, Council and Rehabilitative Services, Department of of the District of Columbia, transmitting a By unanimous consent, permission to Education, transmitting Notice of Final copy of D.C. Act 13–77, ‘‘Children’s Defense address the House, following the legis- Funding Priority for Fiscal Year 1999 for a Fund Equitable Real Property Tax Relief lative program and any special orders Disability and Rehabilitation Research Act of 1999,’’ pursuant to D.C. Code section 1– heretofore entered, was granted to: Project, pursuant to 20 U.S.C. 1232(f); to the 233(c)(1); to the Committee on Government The following Members (at the re- Committee on Education and the Workforce. Reform. 2626. A letter from the Office of Special 2638. A letter from the Chairman, Council quest of Mr. SCOTT) to revise and ex- Education and Rehabilitative Services, De- of the District of Columbia, transmitting a tend their remarks and include extra- partment of Education, transmitting Notice copy of D.C. Act 13–75, ‘‘Bethea-Welch Post neous material: of Final Funding Priority for Fiscal Year 7284, Veterans of Foreign Wars, Equitable Ms. NORTON, for 5 minutes, today. 1999 for a Disability and Rehabilitation Re- Real Property Tax Relief Act of 1999,’’ pursu- Mr. COYNE, for 5 minutes, today. search Project; to the Committee on Edu- ant to D.C. Code section 1–233(c)(1); to the Mr. CLYBURN, for 5 minutes, today. cation and the Workforce. Committee on Government Reform. Ms. MILLENDER-MCDONALD, for 5 min- 2627. A letter from the Acting Assistant, 2639. A letter from the Chairman, Council utes, today. General Counsel for Regulatory Law, Office of the District of Columbia, transmitting a of Safeguards and Security, Department of copy of D.C. Act 13–70, ‘‘Ben Ali Way Act of f Energy, transmitting the Classified Matter 1999,’’ pursuant to D.C. Code section 1– ADJOURNMENT Protection and Control Manual; to the Com- 233(c)(1); to the Committee on Government mittee on Commerce. Reform. Mr. LAHOOD. Mr. Speaker, I move 2628. A letter from the Director, Office of 2640. A letter from the Chairman, Council that the House do now adjourn. Regulatory Management and Information, of the District of Columbia, transmitting a

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