Wednesday Volume 579 9 April 2014 No. 151

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 9 April 2014

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2014 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 247 9 APRIL 2014 248

Justine Greening: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, House of Commons and this gives me a chance to pay tribute to the tireless efforts he made to push through his private Member’s Wednesday 9 April 2014 Bill. It has not just set out how important equality is to our Parliament, but has been picked up across the world as an example of the UK’s taking a stand on gender The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock equality.

PRAYERS Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab): As we pay tribute to others, it is right for the House again to [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] reflect at the time of these elections on the enormous contribution our armed forces have made and continue to make. It is heartening that in the elections the three front-runners were supportive of the extension of women’s Oral Answers to Questions rights in government, but progress has been fragile. It is unacceptable that only 1% of those who serve in the Afghan police force are women. I know that the Secretary of State will share that concern, so what more can be INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT done to ensure that the legal, judicial and policing systems properly reflect a better balance of gender in The Secretary of State was asked— Afghanistan? Afghanistan Election (Women) Justine Greening: That is the very point that I raised 1. Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): with the Minister of the Interior when I was last in What assessment she has made of the level of women’s Afghanistan. We are providing technical assistance to participation in the upcoming Afghanistan presidential enable work on this issue across the board, but one election. [903613] thing that is being considered is bringing in women at more senior levels in the Afghan police to get role The Secretary of State for International Development models, so that incoming female recruits can aspire and (Justine Greening): Provisional estimates show that look up to them. approximately 7 million people voted in Afghanistan’s presidential and provincial council election last Saturday. Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) About a third of women voted—a tremendous achievement. (LD): Given that the engagement in democracy is so That is evidence that support for democratic institutions strong, with the draw-down of ISAF it will be crucial and women’s participation is making a real difference that donor communities continue to provide aid to what on the ground. is one of the poorest countries in the world, in order to maintain stability. What discussions has the Secretary Karl Turner: Early indications show that the role of of State had with US authorities about recognising the women in Afghanistan’s elections has taken great steps importance of that continued aid commitment? in the right direction, but what plans are in place to ensure that those hard-won battles for the rights of women are not lost as a result of the international Justine Greening: I routinely discuss the work of the security assistance force draw-down at the end of this donor community with our US colleagues and there year? will be an important meeting, which the UK will be co-chairing, at the end of this year and perhaps running Justine Greening: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely into early next year that will assess progress against the right to raise that point. The Department for International Tokyo mutual accountability framework. At that point Development committed £20 million of funding to help we should have a new Afghan President and Government the UN work to support the elections, including nearly in place, so that will be a good time to take stock of £5 million for a programme to support women’s progress and of the challenges that remain. participation. As we go forward, we must ensure that the constitution that is already in place to support Development Framework (Health) women’s rights is enforced, that we are working at grassroots level and putting more money into community programmes and that across government, for example 2. Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): What her health in the police, women get the chance to play their full priorities are for the post-2015 development framework. role. As far as I and the Government are concerned, we [903614] are determined to ensure that those hard-won additional rights for women are not just maintained but built on The Secretary of State for International Development further. (Justine Greening): The UK has played a central role in developing successor development goals to the millennium Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): May I thank the development goals, including through my right hon. Secretary of State for that reply? I hope that now that Friend the Prime Minister’s co-chairmanship of the the International Development (Gender Equality) Act UN high-level panel. We want to see progress across the 2014 has received Royal Assent, she will be able to give board on health, particularly on maternal and child the maximum opportunities to protect women and make health. We want a dedicated health goal, and articulated certain that they are fully empowered. and measured health outcomes targets. 249 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 250

Ian Mearns: Despite ongoing global commitments, Nic Dakin: May I draw attention to my entry in the 40 million women gave birth without the assistance of a Register of Members’ Financial Interests? To reach midwife last year, and families living in the poorest every child with immunisation requires not only vaccines parts of the world are twice as likely to lose their babies but staff. Do the Government support the GAVI15% to as those in the richest nations. Will the Secretary of 25% spending target on health strengthening in the State use her influence to ensure that there are targets international community? for ending preventable child, maternal and newborn deaths in the post-2015 framework, and to call for Lynne Featherstone: I thank the hon. Gentleman for universal health coverage and universal access to midwifery? that, because strengthening health systems and the capacity of health workers is a key answer in addressing the Justine Greening: We are supportive of universal immunisation deficit. health coverage, which is one of the key means that can improve health outcomes. The hon. Gentleman is quite Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I proudly right to raise the issue of maternal health. We look congratulate the Government on spending 0.7% of national across the board at how we can do that, including in income on eradicating poverty worldwide, much of it relation to family planning and what we are doing this on polio eradication. The last three countries with summer to combat child and early marriage, which is endemic polio all have significant Islamic populations. one reason why maternal health is poor. We will continue Is the Department committed to working with religious to work really hard on that whole agenda. and Islamic leaders to try to build community support for polio eradication and to protect health workers in Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): Great gains have those countries? been made under the millennium development goals in the areas of malaria, neglected tropical diseases, HIV/AIDS Lynne Featherstone: My hon. Friend raises the issue and tuberculosis. Can my right hon. Friend reassure me of the frustrating endgame on polio. GAVI will play a that the goals that we will push for post-2015 will ensure major role in delivering that endgame, but we are working that those gains will be maintained and, indeed, enhanced? with everyone to try to ensure that vaccinations are seen as good and not some kind of problem. Justine Greening: Yes, I can. In fact, we want HIV, TB and malaria to be incorporated under a health goal. My Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): hon. Friend will be aware that the UK was one of the I declare an arrangement, as I went to Cambodia with leading donors at the global fund replenishment at the Results UK to see the GAVI-fundedprogramme there. I end of last year, and will continue to support that am told that the Government put in £860 million, which important work. raises questions about the future. Will the Government make a commitment to maintaining that level of funding in future for GAVI, which runs a wonderful project? Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Further to that answer, will the Secretary of State confirm that the Government Lynne Featherstone: Right now, GAVI has not stated will commit to the opportunity identified by the “Malaria what its actual target is. We are the largest donor at No More” campaign to halve malaria deaths again—they 33%, and we will continue to support it. We will make a have already been halved since 2000—by 2020, and decision in the next few months. back the proposals to accelerate the reduction in the death rate to zero beyond 2020? Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Does the Minister agree that vaccination assistance and the partnership Justine Greening: We do want malaria to be eradicated. with the Gates Foundation is not only the right thing to It is one of the key issues African leaders raise in do but one of the best ways to help developing economies? relation not just to its impact on individuals and families, It is also something we should sell and explain to the but its economic impact. The recent Bali World Trade general public. Organisation deal was worth about $10 billion a year to the African economy—that is also the cost of malaria Lynne Featherstone: My hon. Friend is entirely right. every year regionally. The economic benefits are huge, and vaccination is considered a development “best buy”. The Gates GAVI Alliance Foundation is at the forefront of that, and we work very closely indeed with it. 3. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): What recent steps she has taken to ensure the future funding and Palestinian Authority effectiveness of the GAVI Alliance. [R] [903615] 4. Sir Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con): What The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for assessment she has made of the effectiveness of her International Development (Lynne Featherstone): The Department’s support for the Palestinian Authority. UK is the largest donor to GAVI. Our support will help [903616] fully immunise nearly 80 million children and save around 1.3 million lives during 2011-15. We are working The Minister of State, Department for International closely with GAVI and partners to ensure that their Development (Mr Alan Duncan): The UK is providing 2016-20 strategy, currently being developed, provides a effective support for the Palestinian Authority in very sound and cost-effective basis for delivering their mission challenging circumstances. The Palestinian Authority and saving children’s lives. has developed institutions to the point where the 251 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 252 international community has recognised it as technically in the occupied territories? Yesterday the Foreign Secretary ready for statehood, and it has made impressive progress met the Israeli Minister for International Relations: was in delivering improved outcomes in health and education. this issue raised with him?

Sir Peter Luff: Having just returned from a Select Mr Duncan: I was also at that meeting, and I can Committee visit to the Palestinian occupied territories assure the hon. Gentleman that we raise such matters and seen the excellent work being done there by the regularly. It is essential that some kind of normal activity Department, may I ask whether the Minister agrees that can be permitted in the occupied Palestinian territories; its work to support the private sector would be much otherwise, as my right hon. Friend the Member for more effective if Israel lifted many of its restrictions, Gordon (Sir Malcolm Bruce) said, there will not be a which can have nothing to do with its essential security, two-state solution and there is a danger of permanent on the freedom of Palestinian business people to develop conflict and tension. their economy in areas such as the banking sector, water Aid Dependency and Job Creation supply, and even 3G telephone networks? 5. John Howell (Henley) (Con): What steps her Mr Duncan: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his Department is taking to reduce levels of aid dependency appreciation of DFID’s work in the occupied Palestinian through the creation of jobs. [903617] territories and glad that he and the Committee had such The Secretary of State for International Development a useful visit. Israeli restrictions do tremendous damage (Justine Greening): My Department is working hard to to the economy and to the living standards of ordinary grow jobs and end aid dependency. Over the next two Palestinians. The simple truth is that they are not allowed years we will more than double to £1.8 billion the to develop their banking or information and amount that DFID invests in job creation and economic communications technology sectors, or to build even development. their basic infrastructure. Were these restrictions to be lifted, not only would DFID’s work to support the John Howell: Will the Secretary of State set out her private sector be much more effective, but within a objectives for next week’s meeting of the Global Partnership relatively short space of time the Palestinians would for Effective Development Co-operation and say what probably not need our aid at all. her Department’s work with the private sector will achieve? Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): Is the Minister aware that the World Bank has said that Justine Greening: The meeting in Mexico is incredibly area C of the west bank, particularly the Jordan valley, important. It will help us to take the next steps to shape is vital to the future economic viability of a Palestinian responsible business practices that can, in turn, support state? Presumably that is why the Department is looking sustainable and inclusive economic growth in countries to fund infrastructure projects there. What is his view of that so badly need it. the fact that illegal Israeli planning restrictions are Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): stopping those infrastructure projects being built, and Job creation is of course a very worthwhile task, particularly for how long will the Government allow Israel to have a in the emerging economies. Does the Secretary of State veto over economic development in the west bank? agree that secure, dependable jobs that help the indigenous peoples of those nations are what is required to assist Mr Duncan: I fully understand what the hon. Gentleman those nations? says. I think the Select Committee saw a direct example of the destruction of olive groves when it was there. It is Justine Greening: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely essential that area C is able, through planning arrangements, right. One of the most important aspects is to help to develop its economy; otherwise there can be no shape the economic growth that takes place so that, sensible or useful economic future in the Palestinian through work, it lifts the largest number of people territories. possible out of poverty. That is precisely the agenda the Department is pursuing. Sir Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): May I confirm what the Minister says—that without access to area C Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): In every economy there is no future for a two-state solution or for an across the globe, small businesses are the most secure economically viable Palestine? The Palestinian Authority way to create jobs. What is my right hon. Friend’s pleaded with us to put all possible pressure on Israel to Department doing to enhance the provision of finance allow access. We met someone from a company who is to small businesses in developing countries? saying that the cost of land in areas A and B is prohibitive Justine Greening: We are working with a fund for and that without access to area C he cannot develop his small and medium-sized enterprises that can do precisely business. that. We have also, with the London stock exchange, focused on the issue of capital markets improving finance Mr Duncan: I fully concur with my right hon. Friend. more broadly in developing countries—particularly, most I hope that a full understanding of this can be included recently, in Tanzania. in the peace talks that we hope are continuing towards a productive and useful conclusion. Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): The garment industry in Bangladesh and elsewhere provides hundreds Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ of thousands of jobs to people trying to work their way Co-op): What recent representations have the Government out of poverty, but it has too often involved unsafe made to the Israeli authorities about the continued conditions and poverty pay, and no one in Britain wants forcible removal of populations, and property demolition, to buy clothes made in such conditions. Ahead of the 253 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 254 first anniversary of the Rana Plaza disaster, does the on the issue, and we are dealing full out with communicable Secretary of State now agree that her Government’s diseases. We also, as my right hon. Friend knows, have a decision to withdraw funding from the International campaign on mental health issues. Labour Organisation, which protects vulnerable workers, was a short-sighted mistake? Development Aid

Justine Greening: I hope I can reassure the hon. Lady 7. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): How much that we are working with the ILO in Bangladesh, and as international development aid the UK gave in total to she knows we have also sent over experts to help with Jamaica, Pakistan, Nigeria, Somalia, India and building practices and construction. As the hon. Lady Bangladesh combined in the last year for which figures points out, it is nearly a year since the tragic collapse of are available. [903620] the Rana Plaza building, and we have worked very hard since then with the Bangladesh Government and industry The Minister of State, Department for International to make sure that we learn from that terrible disaster. Development (Mr Alan Duncan): In 2012 the UK Government gave a combined total of £973 million in Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Although I bilateral official development assistance to Jamaica, welcome enormously what the Secretary of State is Pakistan, Nigeria, Somalia, India and Bangladesh. doing, is not one of the problems in creating jobs in developing countries the fact that major trading blocs Mr Hollobone: Between them, those six countries such as the European Union are stopping market access account for 2,900 foreign national offenders in Britain’s to them? prisons, which is more than a quarter of the foreign national offender total, at an annual cost of some Justine Greening: Protectionism, including by the £100 million. Will the Department agree to use some of EU, ultimately does not help anyone. [Interruption.] the £900 million spent annually on those countries on That is one of the reasons why getting a deal in Bali was insisting on compulsory prisoner transfer agreements so important. I had the chance to make that point as a condition of that aid, and on building prisons in personally to the director general of the WTO yesterday. those countries so that they can take their people back? [Interruption.] Mr Duncan: There is no straightforward correlation Mr Speaker: Order. There are a lot of noisy private between the practicality of building a prison abroad conversations taking place, notably at this stage on the and the number of UK-based prisoners from that country. Opposition Benches, but I want to hear both the questions We do not make our aid conditional on securing a and the right hon. Lady’s answers, so let us have a prisoner transfer agreement with each such country. To seemly atmosphere in deference to Mr Paul Burstow. do so would seriously undermine our poverty and stability programmes, and in any case they are deeply political and very complicated to negotiate. However, more than Tackling Dementia 19,000 foreign national offenders have been returned since 2010. 6. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): What steps her Department is taking to support developing Topical Questions countries in tackling the effects of dementia. [903618] T1. [903629] Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for and Bellshill) (Lab): If she will make a statement on her International Development (Lynne Featherstone): The departmental responsibilities. UK Government support the improvement of dementia care through increased provision of basic health services The Secretary of State for International Development for the poor. In 2012-13, the UK provided about £1 billion (Justine Greening): On international women’s day, I in bilateral health aid to support work to strengthen announced that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister health systems and health services for the poor. will host a summit in July to step up our global efforts to end both female genital mutilation and early and Paul Burstow: I thank the Minister for that answer forced marriage for all girls within a generation. In and for the actions the Government are already taking. March, I attended in New York the Commission on the Given that six out of 10 people living with dementia Status of Women, which supported our call for a stand- worldwide live not in developed but in developing countries, alone goal on gender and integrating gender throughout that the vast majority of them do not have a diagnosis, the post-2015 development framework. Last week, the and that we know from research by Alzheimer’s Disease Office for National Statistics confirmed that the UK is International that the burden of dementia is shifting to the first G8 country to reach a figure of 0.7% of gross developing countries, will the Government take further national income on international development, and I steps to build on the success of the dementia summit am proud that it is this Government who have achieved held last year to lever action in those developing countries? that promise.

Lynne Featherstone: I thank my right hon. Friend Mr Clarke: Given the horrific events in Rwanda and pay tribute to him for the work he has done; indeed, 20 years ago this week, will the Department redouble its I have met with him to discuss this very issue. Of course, efforts to support conflict prevention in countries such dementia is a growing issue in the developing world. as Sudan, the Central African Republic and, indeed, Regarding the Prime Minister’s summit, we have contributed Syria, so that their people can enjoy the peace and to the Department of Health, which is the lead Department humanity that hitherto has escaped them? 255 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 256

Justine Greening: We have had a chance this week to country and to billions of people around the world. remember the terrible tragedy of the events that took Simple courtesy would dictate that we do actually pay place in Rwanda back in 1994. When we look at progress attention. against the millennium development goals, we know that hardly any has been made in the sort of countries T3. [903631] LindsayRoy(Glenrothes)(Lab):Tragically, to which the right hon. Gentleman refers, because conflict 3,000 children a day die from malaria worldwide. What holds back development. That is why we will continue contribution are the Government making to eliminate to focus our efforts on those states to help their people. child deaths from this dreadful disease, particularly in the Central African Republic, where UN funding is T2. [903630] David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): What grossly underfunded? progress is the Government’s International Citizens Service entrepreneur programme making in helping Justine Greening: We have announced up to £1 billion entrepreneurs and small businesses in developing over the next three years for the global fund, which is economies? one of the key mechanisms by which malaria is tackled—it was malaria day yesterday—and, particularly in places Justine Greening: At the end of March, I launched such as the Central African Republic, we complement the International Citizens Service entrepreneur scheme. that with humanitarian support as well. This builds on the successful ICS programme that this Government have introduced. It is about matching young Mr Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con): Will the people with businesses and entrepreneurs in developing Secretary of State update the House on DFID’s countries, and it focuses on economic development. The contribution to the commemoration of the 20th anniversary programme has had a fantastic response, and the first of the Rwandan genocide? volunteers will be on their placements this summer. [Interruption.] Justine Greening: It is 20 years since the Rwandan genocide—my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab): DFID was in Rwanda over recent days to commemorate that has a work in freedom programme, aimed at preventing terrible event—but since then, Rwanda has taken huge the trafficking of women and girls from south Asia to steps forward in development. It is one of the beacons countries popular with migrants. Last week, I was in showing how countries can develop rapidly when there Qatar to see the conditions endured by migrant male are the resources and the political will. We will continue workers. As Qatar starts to build the World cup stadiums, our work with Rwanda. the abuses I saw cannot continue. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is important to extend the work in T4. [903632] Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): I freedom programme to these workers in Qatar, and that have just returned from a fact-finding mission to Qatar it is important that FIFA and Qatar act to ensure that with the construction workers union, the Union of the beautiful game is not built on the misery of migrant Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians, to look workers? at the terrible plight of migrant workers in Qatar. I was reassured by some of the Secretary of State’s Justine Greening: The right hon. Gentleman is right comments in reply to the question from my right to raise these issues. We have certainly raised our concerns hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire with the Qatari authorities, including at ministerial and (Mr Murphy). Will she, however, give the House an ambassadorial level. Of course, the work in freedom assurance that she will make representations to the programme, which we are bringing in—this new programme Qatari authorities to end the kafala system, which is is about to start—is all about helping particularly girls effectively bonded labour, and to stop the appalling and women who are being trafficked, and we hope to circumstances of migrant workers living in abject see that programme succeed over the coming years. squalor? Some 1,200 have been killed on construction [Interruption.] sites already, and if some action is not taken, 4,000 will be dead before the World cup starts. Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): What discussions has my right hon. Friend had with other UK Departments Justine Greening: The hon. Gentleman is right to about how Her Majesty’s Government can bring an end raise those issues, and I assure him that we are raising to female genital mutilation and early and forced marriage them with the Qatari authorities. I will also do that. worldwide? Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Will my right Justine Greening: I am delighted to say that the UK hon. Friend join me in congratulating Green Fuels Ltd will host an international summit on these topics in the on its successful entry into the Indonesian market, summer, hosted by the Prime Minister. We have been boosting British exports and reducing Indonesian carbon working hand in hand with my right hon. Friend the emissions through a strong partnership between DFID Home Secretary, who has done some excellent work and UK Trade & Investment on the ground? domestically on this agenda, too. [Interruption.] Justine Greening: I congratulate the company in my Mr Speaker: Order. May I politely say to the House hon. Friend’s constituency. He has been a tireless advocate that although I understand the air of expectation, we for the role that such businesses, including this one, can have just had a question about female genital mutilation? play in combating climate change. It is fantastic to see We are discussing matters of intense importance in this that work get off the ground in Indonesia. 257 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 258

PRIME MINISTER Edward Miliband: I was asking about the Prime Minister’s handling of the situation and the lessons he has learned, and he had no answer. In his letter to the former The Prime Minister was asked— Culture Secretary today, he wrote: “I think it is important to be clear that the Committee on Engagements Standards cleared you of the unfounded allegations made against you”. Q1. [903598] Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): If he will list Can he now explain what, in his view, she did wrong? his official engagements for Wednesday 9 April. The Prime Minister: The former Culture Secretary set The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): This morning, out the reasons for her resignation in her letter, but the I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have is that the former Culture Secretary was accused of a further such meetings later today. very serious offence by a Member of Parliament. She was accused of housing her parents at public expense. Nia Griffith: The Prime Minister promised by the end She was cleared of that allegation, and I thought it was of this Parliament to reduce net annual migration to the right in those circumstances—other people can take UK to tens of thousands. Will that promise be met—yes their own view, but I am talking about my view—to or no? allow her to make her apology and to continue with her job. I think that was the right way to handle the situation. Other people can take their own view, but I think that if The Prime Minister: We have made very good steps people clear themselves of a serious offence, you let forward on migration from outside the EU, which is them get on with their job—you let them try to do their down by a third and at its lowest level since 1998. That job. That is actually the right thing to do. is a success, and we have seen net migration overall come down by around a fifth. What we have not seen is Edward Miliband: I have to say to the Prime Minister what we saw under Labour, when 2.2 million people net that it will be completely unclear to the country why the came in over 10 years. That was unacceptable, and we former Culture Secretary is not still in her job, because are getting the situation under control. he thinks that she did nothing wrong. Let me explain to him—[Interruption.] Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): I spoke recently to a constituent of mine who has just Mr Speaker: Order. This session will be conducted in been diagnosed with dementia. Understandably, she is an orderly way, however long it takes. I happen to know incredibly frightened about what the future might hold that there are children here today observing our proceedings. for her. The dementia strategy has made great progress, I would like to think that the House will show a good but it comes to an end this month. Will the Prime example. Let us see if we can. Minister give his personal assurance that a new dementia framework will be put in place as soon as possible to Edward Miliband: What she did wrong was to refuse help my constituents and others to live well with dementia? to co-operate with an inquiry, breach the code of conduct for MPs, and give a perfunctory and inadequate apology The Prime Minister: I can certainly give my hon. to this House, as people on all sides have been saying. Friend that assurance, and I can add that we will The Prime Minister said six days ago that she had continue our dementia challenge, which is about doubling “done the right thing” and that we should “leave it at research into dementia and treating it like a disease such that”. Does he now recognise that that was a terrible as cancer or heart disease. The work we are doing to error of judgment? make sure that local communities are more dementia- friendly must continue, and we must also improve the The Prime Minister: As I say, I think that it was right care that elderly people get in care homes, nursing to allow her the chance to get on with her job. There is homes and hospitals. That vital work must continue, one weakness in the right hon. Gentleman’s argument. too, and we will continue to use our position in the G7 If he thought that was the case, why did he not call on to push the issue globally. her to resign? He seems to be the first Leader of the Opposition, probably in history, to come to this House Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): The events and make his first suggestion that someone should of the last week have caused deep concern and anger to resign after they have already resigned. the public. What lessons has the Prime Minister learned from his handling of the situation? Edward Miliband: Now I have heard everything—it is my job to fire members of his Cabinet! This is about The Prime Minister: First, I agree with the right hon. him and the fact that he still does not understand what Gentleman that there is still very deep and very raw the former Culture Secretary did wrong. The reason the public concern about the expenses scandal that rocked public were so appalled was that if it had happened in the last Parliament. The biggest lesson I have learned is any other business, there would have been no question that that anger is still very raw and needs to be acted on. of her staying in her job. Why was he the last person in I hope the one lesson that will not be learned is that the the country to realise that her position was untenable? right thing to do as soon as someone has to answer allegations is just to remove them instantly, rather than The Prime Minister: It is very clear. She did do some give them a chance to clear their name and get on with things wrong. That is why she was asked to apologise, their job. and she did apologise. It was not right not to co-operate 259 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 260 properly with the Committee, and she apologised for profound lessons about how he runs his Government. that. It is rather extraordinary that the right hon. Gentleman The former Culture Secretary went not because of her comes here, having not said that she should resign, bad conduct but because of her bad press. The Prime saying that she should have resigned. It shows all the Minister promised in opposition to be an apostle for signs of someone seeing a political bandwagon and better standards, and he has spent the last week being wanting to jump on it. He is jumping on this bandwagon an apologist for unacceptable behaviour. after the whole circus has left town. Where I agree with the right hon. Gentleman is that The Prime Minister: If the right hon. Gentleman there is still more that needs to be done to deal with the thinks that it is leadership to fire someone at the first problems of expenses that we suffered in the last Parliament. sign of trouble rather than actually give someone a We have made some big steps forward. I am not sure chance to get on with the job, that is actually not that everybody knows this, but any expense complaint leadership, but weakness. If that is his recommendation from 2010 onwards is dealt with by an independent for leadership, I do not think the country will have any body and not by MPs. That is right. The Committee of of it. MPs that does the work on the past cases now has members of the public sitting on it. That is right. Let us Mr Speaker: I call Mr Tim Farron. [Interruption.] do more to reassure the public about the scandal of Order. There should not be a collective groan. The hon. expenses and how we are dealing with it. I am very Gentleman is good-humoured about it, but—[Interruption.] happy to hold meetings with party leaders and the Order. The House will hear the hon. Gentleman. I call authorities of this House. It is absolutely right that we Mr Tim Farron. should do everything we can to show that this is a good and honest Parliament with good and hard-working Hon. Members: Hear, hear! people in it. That is the assumption that I start from, and I make no apology for that. Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): Thank you—that is much better. Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister describes it as Does the Prime Minister agree that people living in a “bandwagon” and a “circus”. This is about members rural Britain have as much right to decent-quality and of the public in this country being absolutely appalled safe health care and hospital services as anybody else? If at the conduct of his Government over the last week. he does, will he help to intervene directly, and help me That is what it is about. It is about members of the personally, to ensure that Morecambe Bay hospitals public who cannot understand why he did not act. He trust does not downgrade, sell off, offload or close said in his foreword to the “Ministerial Code”: Westmorland general hospital in Kendal? “the British people…expect the highest standards of conduct. We must not let them down.” The Prime Minister: Representing a rural constituency, Does he not realise that his failure, even now, to recognise I know how important it is that people have access to what went wrong has undermined trust not only in his good health services, and I know how important it is Government, but in politics? that we get health and social services to work better together, which is the key to success in so many of our areas. My hon. Friend asks me to look into a specific The Prime Minister: What we see is absolutely case, and I am happy to do that. transparent: the right hon. Gentleman came here today determined to play politics in every single way that he Q2. [903599] Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) could. That is absolutely clear. Since 2010—[Interruption.] (SDLP): In the light of this week’s historic visit by the Irish President Michael D. Higgins to the UK, building Mr Speaker: Order. The Prime Minister’s answer on the legacy of President Mary McAleese and of Her must and will be heard. Majesty’s historic visit to Ireland in 2011, does the Prime Minister agree that Anglo-Irish relationships The Prime Minister: I think that Members across the have never been stronger, and that if we are to build House know that since 2010—since the last Parliament—a lasting reconciliation across these islands, we need lot of changes have been made. We have independent the full commitment of his Government, along with members on the parliamentary Committee; the publication the Irish Government, to ensure that the potential of all meetings, visits and gifts for Ministers; the publication prospects of the Haass process are delivered and of all special adviser salaries; and the publication of implemented? Government spending. Is there more to do? Yes, absolutely, there is more to do. If the right hon. Gentleman is The Prime Minister: First, I strongly agree with the serious about doing it, he will sit down with other party hon. Gentleman that it is a landmark visit of the Irish leaders and the authorities of this House. Let us ask President to this country, coming three years after the what we can do to put it beyond doubt that this is a Queen’s extraordinary visit to the Republic of Ireland. I good and honest Parliament with hard-working people. absolutely agree with him that Anglo-Irish relations are If he wants to play politics and he wants a good at an all-time high, and the Taoiseach Enda Kenny and soundbite on the news, he should carry on. If you’re I are absolutely committed to building on that relationship. serious, get serious. All the time we are thinking of new things that Britain and Ireland can do as good neighbours and good Edward Miliband: I will have meetings with the Prime friends. On the Haass talks, I do think it would be good Minister any time about how we reform the systems of if we could make some progress on that issue. It is this House—of course I will—but he just doesn’t get it. something that the parties in Northern Ireland started That is what he has shown today. He needs to learn themselves, and I would urge them to continue it. 261 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 262

Q3. [903600] Sir Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con): Youth unemployment is still too high. When we strip On the day when BBC Radio 4’s “Woman’s Hour” has out those in full-time education, it is 8.7%. That is much put the distinguished geneticist Professor Nazneen lower than France, Italy, Spain or the EU average, but it Rahman at No. 3 in its power list, I am pleased to is still too high and we are committed to getting it remind the Prime Minister of his challenge to me to down. suggest practical policies that could address the damaging and long-standing under-representation of Q6. [903603] Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab): My women in science and engineering careers. So what is constituent, Paul Cowdrey, is to lose his home his response—[Interruption.] after raising concerns about overcharging by solicitor Michael Sandler. That solicitor from hell found a Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman will be loophole by which he could sue my constituent for heard. complaining. The Solicitors Regulation Authority described Sandler as “morally reprehensible” but said it is powerless to act. Will the Prime Minister look at that Sir Peter Luff: The Opposition do not regard this as a case and intervene to stop solicitors running rings serious matter—I thought they did. around their regulators? What is the Prime Minister’s response to the thoughtful report, published last week, which I commissioned to The Prime Minister: I am happy to look into that meet his challenge, called “Through Both Eyes”, by the case. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the legal regulators campaign group ScienceGrrl? and the legal ombudsman, which were improved over previous years, are independent of the Government. It The Prime Minister: May I pay tribute to my hon. is therefore not possible to intervene directly, but I can Friend for campaigning and working so hard on this arrange for a meeting between the hon. Gentleman and issue? It is really important for the future of our country— the Minister with responsibility for legal services to not just for gender equality but for our economic future—to discuss what remedies are open to the hon. Gentleman’s get more women into STEM subjects and into engineering. constituent. If that meeting will be helpful, I will certainly I support the National Centre for Universities and put it in place. Businesses’ target of doubling the number of female engineering graduates by 2030. We are working with Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): employers, professional bodies and academic institutions Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif of Pakistan is due to visit to implement the Perkins review of engineering skills, the United Kingdom later this month. Will the Prime and I think one of the most powerful things is role Minister discuss with him specifically the reform of the models like the one that my hon. Friend mentioned in blasphemy laws in Pakistan, which are often used to his question. persecute and prosecute minority communities, including the Christian community? Will he urge Prime Minister Sharif to ensure that all those who are prosecuted under Q4. [903601] Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): Did the Prime Minister or any of his staff ask the right those laws get justice, including a British national? hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller) to resign her position as Culture Secretary, and if not, should he The Prime Minister: I reassure my hon. Friend that I have? will raise that issue with Prime Minister Sharif when he comes to the UK. In the run-up to Easter, it is important to remember how many Christians are still persecuted The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend has set out around the world, including Christians persecuted under the reasons for her resignation in a letter today, and I things such as the blasphemy laws. I will raise that think people should accept that. I have given the fullest important issue and look forward to meeting the Pakistan possible answers I could about my attitude of working leadership. with colleagues and giving them the chance to get on with their jobs. That is the right approach. Q7. [903604] Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Is the Prime Minister aware that, for 3 million Q5. [903602] John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): Thanks to low-income families, for every £3 they gain through the the Government’s long-term economic plan, youth higher personal tax allowance, they will lose £2 straight unemployment has been slashed by 42% in my away through universal credit? Is he simply giving with constituency. Does the Prime Minister think that the one hand but taking away from low-paid Britain with opening of a new university technical college and a new the other? free sixth-form college in Salisbury will enhance the ability of young people in south Wiltshire to compete The Prime Minister: I think the hon. Gentleman is in the global race? profoundly wrong, because the point of universal credit is that people always keep a reasonable share of every The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right extra pound earned. The difference between universal in every word, because we see a decline in youth credit and the systems put in place by the previous unemployment. The figures in Salisbury and the south-west Government is that, under the latter, people often faced are remarkable—the long-term youth claimant count over 100% marginal tax rates effectively when they were has come down by 37% in the past year. To further drive in work. Universal credit will change that. That is why I down youth unemployment, we need to ensure that the thought Labour was in favour of it. If Labour Members training opportunities and education are there. That is have changed their minds about that, as they often do why university technical colleges are so important. about other things, perhaps they should tell us. 263 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 264

Q8. [903605] James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley for them and for the money that they will raise for Regis) (Con): The number of apprenticeship starts in excellent causes. I pay tribute to all hon. Members on my constituency is now at a record high. Next week, I both sides of the House who are taking part. am holding the second Halesowen and Rowley Regis apprenticeship fair at St Michael’s school in Rowley Q10. [903607] Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) Regis. Does the Prime Minister agree that investing in (Lab): My constituent, Sue Martin, suffers from apprenticeships and skills is a critical part of our myalgic encephalomyelitis and has been waiting more long-term economic plan to give local people in the than nine months for her personal independence claim black country the skills they need to get good quality to be processed. She now has to borrow from her jobs and secure their future? 84-year-old mother just to get by. Why does the Prime Minister think that is acceptable? The Prime Minister: I join my hon. Friend in what he says. We have seen 185,000 apprenticeship starts in the The Prime Minister: All delays in these sorts of payments west midlands under this Government. We now have are not acceptable: we have to make sure that benefits 1.6 million nationwide, so we are on target for 2 million are paid on time. What we are trying to do with the during this Parliament. I want to ensure that we continue personal independence payment is to introduce it gradually to grow apprenticeships and see an increase in the so that we ensure that the quality of decision making is quality of apprenticeships. Crucially, we want to see good. better information for young people in school when they are deciding the pathway they want to take, whether Mike Thornton (Eastleigh) (LD): Last week, I was it is an academic pathway through university or looking privileged to meet Walter Kammerling, a holocaust at apprenticeships. We will be doing more on that front. survivor. Is the Prime Minister aware of another appalling persecution occurring today, which is the ethnic cleansing Q9. [903606] Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): of the Hazara community in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Despite all the progress achieved in Northern Ireland, a They are a gentle, religious, tolerant Islamic people who recent poll found that 67% of 15 to 24-year-olds think educate their sons and their daughters. Will he meet the their future lies outside Northern Ireland, with 70% all-party group on this issue, which is ably chaired by citing their view that local politicians were not capable the right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen of agreeing a shared vision for the future as a factor in (Mr Denham), to discuss the situation? that. Does the Prime Minister agree that that should act as a wake-up call to those who continue to indulge The Prime Minister: We should be absolutely clear in the politics of division and fear to start showing real that the Afghanistan that we have been supporting, and leadership to inspire young people and give them hope will continue to support, must be a multiracial and for a shared and better future in Northern Ireland? multi-ethnic country that includes Pashtuns, Hazaras, Tajiks, Uzbeks and the many other nationalities that The Prime Minister: I pay tribute to the hon. Lady for make up that country. It is vital for its future, and I am the work that she does on this front. Anyone who happy to look at the evidence that my hon. Friend has believes that change is not possible or that politicians and perhaps arrange any appropriate meetings. cannot rise to a challenge in Northern Ireland will have been struck—as I was—by seeing Martin McGuinness Q11. [903608] Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Some around the table at Windsor castle, toasting the Queen 2,400 jobs have been destroyed in Leicester and Corby, at the banquet celebrating British-Irish relations. People and last Friday 650 in Newport, by one single firm that have come a huge way and we need to continue that specialises in cynically buying up firms, degrading the vital work, including the work to fight racism and pay and conditions of staff and then abandoning them sectarianism wherever it arises. Above all, what we need to unemployment. What protection will the is politicians in Northern Ireland to build a shared Government give to those blameless, hard-working future, to take down the peace walls, and to make sure people who suffer from the scourge of that new vulture that the economy can grow and opportunities are there capitalism? for everyone in Northern Ireland. The Prime Minister: I am happy to look at the Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Thirty-five individual case that the hon. Gentleman raises, but—in thousand runners in last year’s London marathon raised terms of the job situation in the UK at present—in the £53 million for good causes. I will run again this Sunday last week we have had 8,000 jobs from Birmingham city for the Forget Me Not children’s hospice in Huddersfield. airport, 12,000 jobs from Asda and more than 1,000 jobs Will the Prime Minister join me in wishing all the from Vodafone. What we are seeing is businesses wanting runners good luck, including a record contingent from to locate in Britain, take people on in Britain and grow this House, including the children’s Minister, my hon. in Britain, but if the hon. Gentleman has an example of Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich bad practice, I am happy to look at it. (Mr Timpson), and the shadow Chancellor? Q12. [903609] Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): In The Prime Minister: Over the cornflakes this morning 1967, the abortion term limit was set at 28 weeks. In I saw a very attractive picture of my hon. Friend in his 1990, it was reduced to 24 weeks. Given that it is now shorts and the shadow Chancellor in a curious pair of 2014, a quarter of a century on, and given recent black leggings. I bow down to the bravery of colleagues breakthroughs in antenatal and neonatal care, does the who are taking part—26 miles is a very long way, and I Prime Minister agree that it is now time to reduce the certainly could not manage it. I am full of admiration abortion term limit to 22 weeks? 265 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 266

The Prime Minister: I have always made my own Wales. There is a huge contrast now with the NHS in personal views on this clear. There have been opportunities England—properly funded, well run and meeting the recently in Parliament to vote on this issue. It is always key targets—and the shambles in Wales. open to Members of Parliament to bring forward legislation, to amend existing Bills and for the House to debate this. Q15. [903612] Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): That has happened relatively recently, but it continues Five years ago, in one of the worst scenes since the on the Government Benches, as I am sure it does on the Good Friday agreement, my constituent Sapper Opposition Benches, to be an entirely free vote issue. Patrick Azimkar and his colleague Mark Quinsey were shot and killed outside their barracks in County Q13. [903610] Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): Did Antrim. Their families still await justice. Will the Prime the Prime Minister or any member of his Cabinet ask Minister look into this case, and into the use of the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller) Diplock trials in Northern Ireland? to resign? The Prime Minister: First of all, may I take this The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend took her opportunity to express my sympathy to the families of own decision and has communicated that decision in a Sappers Azimkar and Quinsey? This was a despicable letter. I really think that Opposition Members should terrorist attack and I fully share the desire that the respect that decision. perpetrators are brought to justice. Just because we are trying to deal with the legacies of the past does not Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): A cloud mean that crimes that have been committed should not hangs over the job prospects of 700 mineworkers in my be properly prosecuted and those responsible convicted. constituency at Kellingley colliery. Will the Prime Minister I know that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland assure the House that the Government are doing everything met the parents of Sapper Azimkar to discuss their they can to ensure the future of the pit and the livelihoods concerns. The Diplock trial system in Northern Ireland of those men and women? was abolished in 2007 and replaced by provisions allowing non-jury trials only in specific sets of circumstances. These provisions lapse every two years and consideration The Prime Minister: I can give my hon. Friend that will be given to whether they ought to be renewed for a assurance. It is important, despite the difficulties UK further two years in 2015. Coal faces, that the Government do everything they can, within the rules that are laid down, to look at whether there is help and assistance that we can give. Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): People That is exactly what is happening. I am being kept up to in my constituency will have been reassured this week date with this, on sometimes a daily basis. I can assure by the International Monetary Fund’s upgrading of the him that it is getting the Government’s attention. country’s growth forecast, but does my right hon. Friend agree that they will be even more reassured to know that our long-term economic plan is working in east Lancashire Q14. [903611] Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): In the following this week’s announcement by Red Rose Drylining spirit of a new positive case for the Union previewed that it has created 30 new apprenticeships? this week by Lord Robertson, can the Prime Minister perhaps give us his view as to which of the four The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend has made an horsemen of the apocalypse will be the first to descend important point. Let us look at what has been happening on an independent Scotland? in Britain this week. The IMF has said that the UK will grow faster than any other G7 country, new jobs are The Prime Minister: My view is an entirely positive being created at Asda in Birmingham and at Vodafone, one about what this United Kingdom has achieved and there are the extra apprenticeships in east Lancashire together in the past and what we can achieve in the that my hon. Friend mentioned. The trade deficit is future. I think the ones who take a narrow, inward-looking falling, and employment is rising. Britain is on its way and rather selfish view about the future are Scottish back. National party Members. Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): During Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): The surgeon the Committee stage of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and general of the armed forces has raised concerns about Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, the then Parliamentary the impact of longer NHS waiting times on soldiers Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member based in Wales. Does the Prime Minister agree that for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), assured the Committee NHS outcomes for my constituents, including soldiers, that those who were refused legal aid could still apply are simply not good enough, and that the Welsh under the new exceptional funding scheme, and described Government could be undermining the operations of that as “a vital safeguard”. Between April and December the armed forces and are potentially in breach of the 2013, 617 family law applications were made and eight military covenant? were allowed. What kind of safeguard is that?

The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an important The Prime Minister: I will look very closely at the point. We have seen an 8% cut to the NHS budget in cases that the right hon. Gentleman has raised, but the Wales. The last time A and E targets were met was 2009. key point is that we must ensure that our legal aid The last time cancer treatment targets were met was system is affordable. When we compare our system with 2008. Over a third of people miss out on access to those of similar common-law countries, we see that we diagnostic services within eight weeks. There is a truly are still spending far more per head than, for instance, dreadful record when it comes to Labour’s NHS in Australia and New Zealand. The right hon. Gentleman 267 Oral Answers9 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 268 shakes his head, but it is no good for Members of it will give him some good ideas about why leaving the Parliament to come to Parliament every week and vote European Union should become part of our long-term against every single spending decision, while not recognising economic plan. that we must get our deficit down in order to help our The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend and I agree on economy to recover. many things, but I am afraid that that is not one of them. However, I will happily look at the Institute of Economic Affairs pamphlet as a potential piece of Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Will the Prime holiday reading, and see how it competes with alternatives Minister take a few minutes over the Easter recess to such as, perhaps, the novel written by my hon. Friend read at least the winning entry in the Institute of Economic the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries), Affairs Brexit competition, the results of which were which is obviously another possible choice for the festive announced last night? I am sure that, if he does read it, period. 269 9 APRIL 2014 Agricultural Accidents (Records) 270

Agricultural Accidents (Records) I want to ensure that the necessary details are recorded so we have useful information from which we can learn Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order from these tragic incidents and help prevent future No. 23) deaths in the countryside. This Bill will ensure the Health and Safety Executive records the following: 12.33 pm cattle breed; age of livestock; type of livestock—cows, heifers, bullocks or steers, cows with or without calves Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con): I beg to or bulls—and their age; details of those injured; whether move, a right of way was involved; whether the person was That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require the Health and accompanied by a dog; whether the person was trespassing; Safety Executive to record certain details of agricultural accidents if tuberculosis testing was taking place; and any other and to report those details annually; and for connected purposes. relevant and useful information. The Health and Safety I remind the House of my entry in the Register of Executive will also continue to record the details it Members’ Financial Interests, and of the fact that I currently records. breed Hereford cattle myself. This change will ensure a uniform list of details is In 2006, my constituent Ian Jackson, a vet, was recorded for each and every incident involving cattle. tragically killed by a runaway heifer in Weobley, This Bill will provide us with the right data so we can Herefordshire. He died from injuries sustained after he then advise farmers about health and safety concerns was attacked and crushed against a lorry. In 2007, my and protect them and the public. constituent Mick Daw was killed by a Belgian Blue bull in Stoke Prior, near Leominster. Mr Daw had gone to The Country Land and Business Association says it the assistance of another man who was trying to move is the bull. “always keen to reduce the number of incidents between people and animals.” The Health and Safety Executive has reported six deaths so far this year from accidents involving cattle. The National Farmers Union supports increased detail Last year seven people were killed, there were five in the recording of incidents. Indeed, much of the deaths in the previous year, and there were six in the previous list of extra information to be recorded was year before that. The Health and Safety Executive’s provided by the NFU. I can tell the House that the agriculture statistics show that 29% of fatal injuries to Ramblers, too, agrees with the need for increased data the public between 2001 and 2012 were caused by collection. Janet Davis, its senior policy officer on rights livestock, and that that was the most common cause. of way, went so far as to say: That is nearly a third of fatal injuries. “Scrupulous data collection .... of all kinds is essential.” The statistics for injuries are similar or worse. Since As the House knows, supermarkets are very keen to 1 April 2013 another two members of the public have promote ethically sourced British beef. Indeed Tesco, been killed following incidents with cattle. There is a Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury’s and the Co-op all sell case ongoing in our courts at the moment resulting products with the red tractor assurance. The popular from a rambler being found dead. Over the past four food assurance scheme covers production standards years 24 people have been killed in incidents with cattle, including food safety, hygiene, animal welfare and the and more than 600 people are injured by animals each environment. However, red tractor assurance, other year. I am sure we all feel that too many people are assurance schemes and the supermarkets themselves do dying in livestock-related incidents and we should be not take into consideration whether the cattle they use doing more to stop this problem. are dangerous. That is because they cannot; there are no The Health and Safety Executive has a record of all available statistics. However, if the supermarkets had these incidents, but the same data are not recorded in access to data identifying dangerous breeds of cattle each case. For example, I could not tell the House what would they not then source their meat from breeds that breed of cattle were involved in most of the 24 deaths. pose less of a threat to farmers? That is despite the Government acknowledging the fact Twenty-four deaths in four years is far too many not that some breeds are dangerous. The Wildlife and to take action to address the situation. Increased information Countryside Act 1981 lists seven breeds of dairy bull and learning might help us to prevent future incidents. that are prohibited at all times from fields with public We need to ensure the relevant changes are made to footpaths. Breed information, which is easy to access legislation now so the Health and Safety Executive from cattle passports, is not automatically recorded and records the appropriate details. Once this vital information it must be. starts to be recorded, I believe it will prove a useful tool There is no requirement under the Reporting of to farmers, their spouses and all those working in Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations agriculture or walking in the country. 1995 or other health and safety legislation for the breeds of cattle involved in incidents to be reported to I want to help people make sensible and informed the Health and Safety Executive. Currently, such a decisions on the types of cattle they buy, farm and place report includes the following: the date of the incident; in fields that have public access. Nobody wants more the severity of the incident— either death or injury; “’elf and safety”, but the Health and Safety Executive who was involved—the owner, the occupier, or someone records some data already. I want it to do it better and contracted or working for them or a member of the to make those data relevant and useful. Until we get the public; and a brief description of the incident. Any facts, we cannot use our judgment. Poor judgment can further detail is at the discretion of the investigator and cause accidents, and accidents with large animals can be based on whether any information—cattle breed, for fatal. instance—is deemed relevant to the inquiry. Question put and agreed to. 271 Agricultural Accidents (Records) 9 APRIL 2014 272

Ordered, Finance (No. 2) Bill That Bill Wiggin, Neil Parish, Martin Vickers, Richard Benyon, Sir Edward Garnier, Sheryll Murray and Jesse Norman present the Bill. (Clauses 1, 5 to 7, 11, 72 to 74 and 112; Schedule 1; any new Clauses and any new Schedules relating to tax relief Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on in connection with the costs of childcare, or income tax Friday 6 June, and to be presented (Bill 200). allowances for parties to a marriage or civil partnership, or air passenger duty, or the rate of the bank levy, or the subject matter of Clause 1, or the subject matter of Clauses 5 to 7 and Schedule 1.)

[2ND ALLOCATED DAY] Further considered in Committee

[MR LINDSAY HOYLE in the Chair]

Clause 11

TAX RELIEF FOR MARRIED COUPLES AND CIVIL PARTNERS

12.42 pm Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab): I beg to move amendment 3, in page 8, line 25, at end insert— ‘55F Review (1) Within six months of the passing of the Finance Act 2014, the Chancellor of the Exchequer must undertake a review of the impact of the tax relief for married couples and civil partners introduced under this Chapter. (2) The review must in particular include— (a) a calculation of the proportion of married couples and civil partners who are eligible for the tax relief in the financial year 2015-16; (b) an assessment of the impact of this tax relief on those who are neither married nor in civil partnerships; (c) the cost to the Exchequer of this tax relief; and (d) an assessment of alternative tax reliefs that would benefit a greater number of families. (3) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must publish the report of the review and lay the report before the House.’.

The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it will be convenient to consider clause 11 stand part.

Catherine McKinnell: It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Hoyle. I rise to speak to the Opposition’s amendment to clause 11 regarding the coalition’s proposed tax relief for married couples and civil partners. Before I begin, let nobody be in any doubt that the Opposition believe that marriage and civil partnerships are a force for good in society. Making a binding lifelong commitment to a partner in that way is truly to be celebrated. Let us not pretend, however, that the Government’s marriage tax allowance, introduced by clause 11 of this year’s Finance Bill, is anything other than a complete and utter dud of a policy.

Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): If that is the case, why in 13 years did the Labour Government not do a single thing—such as introducing a transferrable tax allowance, for example—to recognise married couples in the tax and benefits system? They did not do a single thing. 273 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 274

Catherine McKinnell: We know what the Chancellor the aisle, it does recognise what marriage and stable thinks about this marriage tax allowance. He thinks relationships really bring both to children and to the that the idea is a turkey, both politically and economically. couples? Does she think that in 13 years the Labour Indeed, an article in The Daily Telegraph went so far as party might perhaps have considered it? to say—[Interruption.] I hear groans from those on the Government Benches. The article went so far as to say Catherine McKinnell: Today, we are discussing the that the Chancellor merits of this Government proposal in this Bill. We “loathes the idea. He is not a social conservative and hates the think it is a dud of a policy, and the Chancellor and the notion of bribing anyone down the aisle. He has made sure the Chief Secretary seem to think so, too. I will set out all marriage tax break will not come into effect until the very last the reasons why it is a dud, but talking about whether weeks of this government—and it will be so small as to be the previous Labour Government considered this policy unnoticeable. To resolve the impasse, Treasury officials were does not address the issues we are debating today—this asked to see whether they could dump the agenda on to Iain policy and our amendment to it. If Government Members Duncan Smith, so the Chancellor could wash his hands of it. But a tax cut has to come from the Treasury.” are so keen for there to be genuine support for families, for children and for marriage, they should welcome our Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): I am sure amendment proposing a proper review on the impact of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor is touched by the the tax relief that the Government are suggesting as hon. Lady’s warm support. Will she share with the House part of this Bill and exploring alternative tax reliefs that her thoughts on, and specifically answer, the question could benefit a greater number of families and, potentially, asked by my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing a greater number of married couples, given the and Shoreham (Tim Loughton)? Why did the Labour Government’s proposition’s clear deficiencies in recognising Government do nothing to support the institution of most marriages. marriage in 13 years? Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con): Does the hon. Lady agree with the principle that there Catherine McKinnell: The answer lies in what I have should never be a financial disincentive for people to be already said; the Labour Government did a huge amount married and remain in a marriage? to support all families up and down this country, particularly families with children. Even the Chancellor seems to Catherine McKinnell: The proposal under consideration agree that £3.85 a week is not going to bribe anybody only gives any sort of tax benefit, small though it is, to a down the aisle or persuade anyone to stay in a marriage third of married couples. I am surprised that Government if they decide they are going to leave it. The question Members are not more keen to explore the potential asked by the hon. Member for East Worthing and alternatives to this dud policy. Shoreham (Tim Loughton) does not seem to acknowledge the fundamental issues with the Government’s proposal. Tim Loughton rose—

Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Does Catherine McKinnell: Let me make some progress. my hon. Friend agree that one difficulty with this proposal We are left in a position in which the Minister now finds is shown in the analysis by the Institute for Fiscal himself trying to defend a policy that neither his boss Studies? Robert Joyce, the senior research economist nor his deputy support. It is an absolute farce, but there, says: clearly Government Members do support it, and quite “The policy is not a general recognition of marriage in the vehemently. I hope to persuade them to consider the income tax system”. Opposition amendment and take a second look at the policy. So the argument that has been made by the Government If that fails and the policy is implemented in the Finance is false, in the sense that it gives an impression about Bill, I want them to agree to review its impact within six this policy which is not actually true. He goes on to say months of its implementation to ensure that it is having that the maximum benefit for the maximum number of “it is difficult to escape the conclusion that an income tax system people. which makes some people worse off after a pay rise has something What is it about this policy that is so bad? Frankly, it wrong with it.” is hard to know where to start. Let us begin by looking at who will benefit from this highly restrictive and very The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): complicated measure, which will allow couples to transfer Order. I think we need shorter interventions rather than up to £1,050 of their income tax personal allowance to speeches—I would sooner save your voice for later. their spouse with effect from April 2015. Of course it applies to married couples and those in civil partnerships, Catherine McKinnell: On the basis of my hon. Friend’s but not just to any old marriages or any old civil insightful intervention, I am looking forward to his partnerships. No, the Government have decided that speech on this matter. He makes the point well, and it is there is a very particular form of marriage or civil the point that I am seeking to make. As the Chief partnership that they wish to recognise in the tax system. Secretary to the Treasury has said: Unintentionally, misleading statements were made by “This policy is not about children and families…it does nothing the Prime Minister to this House—[HON.MEMBERS: for millions of families with children struggling to make ends “What!”] Unintentionally, I said. The marriage tax meet.” allowance introduced by clause 11 applies only to those couples where one spouse is a basic rate taxpayer and Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): Does the the other does not use their full personal allowance. hon. Lady agree that although this marriage allowance That scenario has been described by the “Don’t judge is not going to persuade people to go or not to go down my family” campaign as a fantasy 1950s family with a 275 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 276 breadwinner and a home maker. The policy will therefore But it is not just any old majority. The Government’s exclude married couples and civil partners on the very own assessment indicates that a staggering 84% of lowest incomes where both spouses earn below the individual gainers will be male. income tax personal allowance; couples where both Before last year’s autumn statement, we knew that spouses, possibly both basic rate taxpayers, have incomes the net impact of this Chancellor’s tax and benefit higher than the personal allowance and therefore have changes since 2010 would hit women three times harder no unused portion to transfer; and couples where either than men, not least as a result of his decision to give a spouse pays the higher rate or the additional 45% rate, £3 billion tax cut to the top 1% of earners in this with an ever increasing number having been drawn into country, 85% of whom just happen to be men. As a the 40 pence rate under this Government. result of the autumn statement 2013, in which the How many people are we taking about? How many marriage tax allowance was confirmed, that appalling households across the country will benefit from the record has worsened even further, such that the Chancellor’s Government’s flagship policy for supporting families? tax and benefit strategy is now hitting women a staggering Their own recent estimates suggest 4.2 million couples, four times harder than men, raising a net £3.047 billion which equates to a grand total of one in three married from men, and £11.628 billion, or 79%, from women— couples and civil partnerships in this country. Two-thirds [Interruption.] I hear the word scandalous uttered from of married couples and civil partnerships will not benefit a sedentary position, and I quite agree. from a policy intended to recognise marriage in the system. Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ Tim Loughton: I agree that there is a flaw in what the Co-op): I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way hon. Lady is discussing. Presumably, like me, she wishes and for making such powerful points. When these points to see that relief being extended not just to those on the are put to the Government, they always say that the basic rate but to a greater number of married couples financial circumstances are such that there must be with children. That is the logical conclusion of what she cutbacks somewhere. Is it not ironic that the Government is saying, unless she admits once and for all that the are putting forward a policy that is so badly thought out Opposition do not support marriage in the tax system. that if anyone were asked to choose a priority for public spending, this would not be it? Should we not be taking Catherine McKinnell: We have a much better suggestion real measures to tackle problems such as the bedroom as to how the money that has been allocated to the tax and the changes in universal credit, all of which will marriage tax allowance can be used to support millions cause much more damage than any benefit that this will of taxpayers up and down the country, including families bring about? with children. So what about those families with children who are hoping in vain for any sign of support from this The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Government whose tax and benefit changes will result Order. I appeal for shorter interventions. We have time, in households being, on average, £974 a year worse off but Members cannot make a speech as an intervention. by 2015 than they were in 2010? The Exchequer Secretary, who is in his place, has conceded that of Britain’s 7.8 million families with children, just 1.4 million will Catherine McKinnell: I thank you, Mr Hoyle, and benefit from this policy. Yes, that is right—one in six also my hon. Friend whose intervention was powerful families with children will gain from this marriage tax and to the point. allowance. To put it another way, five in six families with children will not get a penny from this Government’s Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): My hon. flagship policy to support them. Friend is right to highlight the disproportionate benefit The policy does nothing for widows, widowers, lone of the marriage tax break to men. Does she not agree parents, long-term co-habiting couples, the 300,000 children that the argument that couples will benefit as a unit living with grandparents or kinship carers or for the completely fails to recognise financial coercion in spouse who has left their partner for good reason, relationships, and that those who get the money have perhaps because of domestic abuse. It will not help the the power? wife who has been left to bring up the kids after the husband has run off with another woman. If her husband Catherine McKinnell: My hon. Friend raises an important chooses to marry that other woman, who have the point and it goes to the heart of so many of the changes Government decided will get the reward within the tax that this Government have made. So many of the decisions system? It is him. that they have made time and again in Budget after How much will the allowance be worth for those Budget have hit women hardest. Back in September lucky married couples who will be eligible? Just how 2011, a leaked No. 10 memo admitted that the Government much value are Ministers putting on the role of marriage had a problem with women, and promised a new in our society? Yes, for the one in three couples who will communications campaign to turn things around, but it benefit, it could be worth up to £200 a year, almost clearly has not worked. A key recommendation of a £3.85 a week. To put that into language that people on No. 10 communications campaign to be female friendly the Labour Benches might understand—that is just was to “focus on more visible women leaders”, but until over one pint of beer or a one-off peak game of bingo a this morning women made up only four of the 23 Cabinet week! Who does the Government expect to reap the members and that figure is now down to three. Let us benefits from this largesse? Let us take a look at their not let the Deputy Prime Minister off the hook. Only own assessment of the equality impact, which clearly four out of 25 Lib Dem Ministers are women— states that while [Interruption.] Government Members are shouting, “What “couples will benefit as a unit...the majority...of individual gainers has that got to do with this measure?” I wonder whether will be male.” one of them would like to intervene. 277 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 278

1pm years. The gap between women’s median weekly earnings Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): During in the private sector and the public sector has increased her research for the debate, did the hon. Lady become between 2009-10 and 2012-13 from 28% to 31%. The aware of the fact that 93% of young teenagers still living same gap for men has decreased from 17% to 14%. At with both parents are with married parents? That is the same time, the cost of child care places, which we quite a powerful statistic. debated at length yesterday, has risen by an average of 30% on this Government’s watch, five times faster than Catherine McKinnell: That is an interesting statistic. I pay. know that the hon. Gentleman is committed to the Analysis by the House of Commons Library shows principle of this measure, but I and other Opposition that the Chancellor’s tax and benefits strategy since Members are trying to make the point that the policy is 2010 has raised a net £3.047 billion, or 21%, from men not only dud as regards its practical application but and 79%, or just under £12 billion, from women. That further compounds the unfairness in how the Government includes the Budget 2010 tax credit cuts, which took have made their decisions in Budget after Budget. Let £2.7 billion from women and only £750 million from us remember when hon. Gentlemen question what my men, the 2010 spending review, under which reductions point has to do with this measure that we know that the in child care support through tax credits took £343 million majority of gainers from the policy are men. from women but just £47 million from men, and the three-year child benefit freeze, which has taken £1.26 billion Kate Green: Does my hon. Friend think that the hon. from women and £26 million from men. That, of course, Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) contrasts with the £3 billion tax cut that was given to was seriously suggesting that £3.85 a week would encourage the top 1% of earners in this country, under which 85% more couples to stay married? There is no evidence of of the gainers are men, and this marriage tax allowance, cause and effect at all. under which 84% of the gainers will be men. This issue goes to the heart of the clause and of why we are tabling Catherine McKinnell: My hon. Friend’s point goes to our amendment. the heart of the matter. It demonstrates what is wrong with this policy and how ill-conceived it is. Mr Stewart Jackson: The hon. Lady is being most Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): The generous in giving way. Why does she imagine that 80% intervention from the hon. Member for South West of the population covered by the OECD have a tax Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) was interesting, but should system that rewards marriage, including countries such he not acknowledge that only one in six of those families as France, Germany and the United States? will benefit from any of this? Catherine McKinnell: We must consider this clause in Catherine McKinnell: My hon. Friend makes an the context of the current situation. We know that extremely good point. Our opposition to this measure is families up and down the country—in fact, all that it disproportionately impacts on women and benefits households—are facing a cost of living crisis. We have men and that it does not recognise five out of six had three years of a flatlining, stagnating economy and households with children up and down the country who households up and down the country have been paying are, as we know, struggling to make ends meet. the price for that. We have a Government who are introducing measures that will benefit a small proportion Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): The of married couples—only one in six households with problem with the hon. Lady’s point is that she is looking children—and under which 84% of the gainers will be at married couples individually. The change is that, men, when we know that those who have paid the bulk rather than wholly going down the route of an of the price so far for the deficit reduction strategy that individualised tax system, as has happened in the past, the Government have been pursuing have been women. this policy considers married couples. Married couples It is a question of priorities, and this Government seem are benefiting and, if we asked them, they would say to have them completely wrong. that they are benefiting as a couple and as a household. They are not hiving off men against women, which is what she seems to be doing. Andrew Selous: I want to check that I heard the hon. Lady correctly. She talked about a flatlining, stagnating Catherine McKinnell: The tax system works on an economy, so I wonder whether she heard the International individual basis and this proposal introduces incredible Monetary Fund say yesterday that we have the fastest complexity to the tax system. I shall cover that in more rate of growth in the IMF and in the whole of the G7 detail and explain the cost implications. Government at 2.9%. Members obviously think that the costs are worth it, but I would be very careful about the concept that all Catherine McKinnell: I think that Government Members married couples will happily share all their money and would love to try to whitewash and erase from the any tax gain—although, admittedly, we are talking memory of the public the past four years, three of about £3.85 a week. That seems to be rolling the clock which have had zero—that is, flatlining—growth in the back somewhat and assuming a level of communication economy. People will be £1,600 worse off on average in within households that I do not think it is the Government’s 2015 than they were in 2010 and whatever growth is place to assume. happening in the economy now is happening despite, Women are more than £26 a week—a week—worse not as a result of, the Government’s economic policies. I off in real terms since 2010, and after significant progress urge hon. Members to exercise caution in saying that under Labour, when the gender pay gap fell by more everything in the garden is rosy when people out there than 7%, it is now rising again for the first time in five are struggling to make ends meet. 279 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 280

Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I am following the hon. not gain anything from the policy, which only compounds Lady’s speech with great interest. For completeness, so the child poverty issue about which the Government that we have the full picture, can she say what proportion seem complacent. of tax is paid by men and what proportion of benefits are paid to women? Kate Green: Does my hon. Friend not agree that the reading of the figures by the hon. Member for East Catherine McKinnell: I am pleased that the hon. Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) was highly Gentleman has entered the debate, because the Liberal selective? Perhaps the bottom half of the income Democrats are key to today’s measure, and I shall go on distribution scale benefits from the measure, but the to explain why. I think we know that there is long-term very poorest will not benefit at all, because they are not inequality. The mere fact that 85% of those who benefit tax payers. from the tax cut from 50p are men speaks volumes about how this country is weighted. The majority of Catherine McKinnell: Absolutely. That is why many wealth is held by men. I understand the hon. Gentleman’s people, including married couples, will not gain anything point, but I urge caution as the Liberal Democrats are from the policy, which is why I am astounded by the in an interesting position today when it comes to how vehement support for a policy that does not properly they will vote not only on this measure in the Bill but on recognise marriage in the tax system, which Government our proposed review. Members are usually keen to do. To conclude the point that I am making about the Kate Green: Does my hon. Friend agree that there is impact of the measure, I shall give one example of the evidence stretching back over several decades that shows women who are particularly hard hit by it: low-paid, that when money is paid to the main carer of a child, new mums, who are losing almost £3,000 during pregnancy usually the mother, that money is more likely to be and their baby’s first year as a result of cuts to child spent on the children? A Government about to preside benefit; cuts to the health in pregnancy grant; the axing over a startling rise in child poverty should be mindful of the higher rate of tax credit for families with babies of that when they introduce a measures such as this. under one; restrictions in the Sure Start maternity allowance; and the Chancellor’s “mummy tax”, which will cost new mums £180 by 2015 in real terms—not to mention Catherine McKinnell: My hon. Friend makes an cuts in public services and the disappearance of Sure incredibly pertinent point, and expresses her case powerfully. Start centres, with three closures a week, which will Child poverty is set to increase by a staggering amount impact on mums, dads, families and, indeed, married under this Government, and the Institute for Fiscal couples up and down the country for years to come. Studies has clearly said that that is a direct result of the The policy is a total turkey in terms of its reach and tax and benefit changes that they have implemented. the benefits it brings. Even the Chancellor thinks so, as The measure, which Government Members are keen to does the Chief Secretary to the Treasury—and I am support, will do nothing to alleviate child poverty or to sure that we will hear what the Exchequer Secretary turn the tide of increasing child poverty over the next thinks later in the debate—but what about its cost and few years. complexity? Surely, Ministers must have learned from the child benefit fiasco, and would not seek to introduce Tim Loughton: The hon. Lady has cited the IFS, a new, complex aspect to the taxation system—that which has conducted an analysis of the distributional fiasco must have given them a few grey hairs—or one impact of the transferrable allowance, demonstrating that might require significant additional administration that it is profoundly progressive, disproportionately and input from the taxpayer. Oh—but they are doing benefiting those in the bottom half of the income so! Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has issued a distribution scale. Perhaps she would read us all the tax information and impact note on the policy that research, rather than a selective part of it. suggests that it will have an Exchequer impact of £515 million in 2015-16, rising to £820 million by 2018-19. Catherine McKinnell: The hon. Gentleman is incredibly selective. If he genuinely believes that the policy will 1.15 pm transform the Government’s appalling record on child poverty and the impact of their tax and benefit changes The note is a little less candid about how much the on women he is deluded. policy will cost HMRC to administer and how many additional staff will be required at a time when the HMRC budget has been slashed and its work force Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): My hon. significantly depleted. It simply states: Friend is making a good case for the amendment. Only “HMRC will incur additional costs on the introduction and a third of families will get £200 a year extra, but the administration of the transferable allowance. The highest expenditure average family will be £974 a year worse off by the time will be in 2015-16, when HMRC will introduce the application of the next election, which shows the iniquitous state of processes to enable everyone who is entitled”— affairs that the measure will create. which is not many— “to benefit from the transfer. During 2014-15, HMRC will refine Catherine McKinnell: My hon. Friend makes an its costs as part of its work on the new IT to provide on-line important point. I would add that it is not a third of services for customers, other customer support and the new families who will gain from the policy—it is a third of internal IT to link spouses and civil partners’ income tax records.” married couples. Five in six households with children, Given the lack of clarity in HMRC’s impact note, I whom many would consider to be families—particularly submitted a written question on the issue, to which the the Opposition, but perhaps not the Government—will Exchequer Secretary kindly replied and explained: 281 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 282

“The detail of how this policy will be administered by HMRC and replaced with a less egregious taper at Budget 2012. The is being developed.”—[Official Report, 12 February 2014; Vol. 575, amounts involved here are less than in that case, which perhaps c. 642W.] explains the willingness to cliff-edge again rather than implement Perhaps the Exchequer Secretary would enlighten us a taper. Nevertheless, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that an income tax system which makes some people worse off after a about exactly what impact the policy will have on pay rise has something wrong with it.” HMRC, which is already coping with the loss of 18,700 full-time equivalent staff, or 26% of its work One might think that, as my hon. Friend the Member force, between 2010 and 2016? Equally concerning is for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) pointed out, a the impact that the policy is expected to have on employers. Government who have so boasted about being committed The Government’s tax information and impact note to tax simplification would want to avoid further neatly sums up the problem, clearly stating that complicating the system. At the launch of the Office of Tax Simplification, the Chancellor commented: “it is estimated that in 2015-16, the cost across 1.6 million employers and pension providers of processing PAYE tax codes “A decade of meddling and intervening has made the tax to reflect transferred allowances may be up to £5.8 million. In affairs of millions of families and businesses across the UK subsequent years, the additional cost across employers and pension extremely complicated. We need to sort out this mess.” providers may be up to £0.8 million. There are also likely to be What does the Office of Tax Simplification make of the negligible one-off costs in 2015-16 due to employers and pension marriage tax allowance, which will clearly make the tax providers familiarising themselves with the change to the legislation.” affairs of couples and employers more complex? We do The cost to employers of processing this shabby not know because, in the words of the Exchequer policy is thought by the Government themselves to be Secretary in response to a written question I tabled: up to £5.8 million in its first year. Surely there are better “The Office of Tax Simplification (OTS) has not made an ways for that money to be spent. The Institute for Fiscal assessment of the proposals for a transferable tax allowance.”— Studies indicates that the precise costs of this policy for [Official Report, 12 February 2014; Vol. 575, c. 642W.] the Government, HMRC and employers Why on earth not? What could Ministers possibly fear “will depend on the rate of take-up, as people will presumably from the outcome of such an assessment? have to make an active claim to HMRC to benefit, and the extent to which individuals change their behaviour in order to qualify.” It may be clear now that the Opposition oppose the Government’s marriage tax allowance and will vote against clause 11. We believe that the marriage tax Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): My hon. allowance is perverse and unfair. It is a poorly targeted Friend will have attended previous debates on this issue. use of resources and is overly complex, and our amendment Indeed, only yesterday in the Chamber, lectures were to clause 11 presses the Government to undertake a being given by Government Members about the need to proper review of the cost, the impact and the benefits simplify the tax code. Does she not find surprising the for those who will receive it and for the overwhelming support for measures such as the one that we are majority of married couples and families who will not debating today? benefit at all. Catherine McKinnell: Indeed. Government Members Amendment 3 calls on the Government to ensure often lament red tape and the complexity of the tax that any such review includes an assessment of alternative system. I am not entirely sure that they will be thanked tax reliefs that would benefit a much greater number of for adding to it in this way and putting the burden of families, because we are not just opposing the marriage implementation on employers. tax allowance today. Indeed, we have said that a future Labour Government would scrap this policy and use The apparent onus on taxpayers proactively to apply the money saved, together with funding from a mansion for this allowance is a concern that has been raised more tax on properties worth over £2 million, to reintroduce widely. The Low Incomes Tax Reform Group has pressed the 10p starting rate of tax, meaning a tax cut for the Government to ensure that a claim for the marriage 24 million people on low and middle incomes, by contrast tax allowance can with the 4.2 million couples who will benefit from the “be made on paper, as well as online; digital exclusion affects marriage tax allowance. Crucially, almost half of those disproportionately people on low incomes, the very people to benefiting from a new 10p tax rate would be women. whom this relief is directed. It is particularly important that a paper copy is available since, in some cases, taxpayers will seek We know that the Liberal Democrats are apparently assistance from the voluntary and charitable sector with, perhaps, implacably opposed to the policy introduced by clause only one spouse being physically present at such meetings.” 11 and secured a deal in the coalition agreement to go LITRG goes on to urge that so far as to abstain on the measure. I believe it was before the 2010 general election that the now Deputy “the claim/election process will be made as simple as possible— preferably a joint election rather than separate claim and election.” Prime Minister described the Conservatives’ proposal for a transferable tax allowance for married couples as I look forward to the Minister’s response to those concerns. “patronising drivel that belongs in the Edwardian age.” The complexity of the Government’s marriage tax I know that Liberal Democrats have, as some might say, allowance proposal has been commented on by the IFS, an irritating habit of saying one thing before a general which stated, when the measure was first announced: election, then doing precisely the opposite—university tuition fees and the VAT bombshell spring to mind—or “One striking feature of the policy is that it complicates the of saying one thing at any point in the electoral cycle income tax system. A transferable personal allowance for married and doing precisely the opposite: for example, 46 Lib couples capped at £1,000 and then withdrawn using a cliff-edge at the higher-rate threshold is not the simplest to understand. It is Dem peers voted to retain the bedroom tax just 24 hours three years since another cliff-edge at the higher rate threshold after their party president, the hon. Member for was announced at the 2010 Conservative Party conference as a Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), said it was way of effectively means-testing Child Benefit, only to be removed something his party could not “continue to support”. 283 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 284

Although the Liberal Democrats may be thinking about Catherine McKinnell: The Bill is inadequate as it abstaining on clause 11 as it stands, it is difficult to see entirely fails to recognise the cost of living crisis facing how they could sit on their hands this afternoon and many households, including families and married couples, vote against our reasonable amendment. throughout the country, and does nothing to address We know that the Lib Dems apparently secured the the problems that people are facing. The review proposed policy of free school meals for every child in reception, by amendment 3 would be an important first step in year 1 and year 2 from September 2014, reportedly in looking at how the Government can allocate the available exchange for agreeing to abstain on the marriage tax resources to help more people than a few carefully allowance. We of course back the policy, having piloted selected types of married couples who they have deemed the idea in government in County Durham and Newham, should benefit. with excellent results, but there are very real concerns about the way in which the policy was announced, and Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): Does my how it will be implemented. The initial pledge was for a hon. Friend agree that one of the problems of the “hot, nutritious meal at lunchtime”, but that is now married couples tax allowance as proposed by the being described as an aspiration. Ministers are now Government is the situation of what might traditionally simply referring to a free, nutritious school lunch. have been called the deserted spouse, often the wife who was left? What would happen in that situation? That is a Many thousands of schools across the country simply very real issue to be answered. do not have the facilities to ensure this provision. The Liberal Democrats have stated that around £80 million Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. May of the additional £150 million capital funding required I say once again that we must have shorter interventions? for the project will come from an underspend in the I know that many Members wish to speak. We have Department for Education and an additional £70 million been going for a long time and have not even got to the would be new money from the Treasury. [Interruption.] Back Benches yet. I hear hon. Members on the Government Benches chuntering from a sedentary position. They seem very Catherine McKinnell: Although my hon. Friend’s disturbed by the Liberal Democrat policy of free school intervention took longer than Mr Deputy Speaker might meals and do not see how it is linked to the marriage tax have liked, it was a very good intervention. allowance. Would they like to confirm that that was not I would be interested to hear what Government Members an agreement, as has been reported? think about the fact that this provision could very much reward men who desert their spouses, leave them with Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. The the children to care for, and then receive a tax benefit, advice is not needed. There is a definite link, and if but only if they marry the woman they ran off with. Members were to listen a little more closely, they would understand where the link is between the choice and 1.30 pm where the money can be spent. Less advice and more listening might help all of us. I will be interested to hear what the Minister and Government Back Benchers have to say about the total inadequacy of this policy in terms of its outreach, Catherine McKinnell: I thank the Deputy Speaker for implementation, cost to Her Majesty’s Revenue and his clarification. The link is clear. It is to do with the Customs, and cost to employers to implement. I urge all allocation of resources and the agreement that has been hon. Members, particularly the Liberal Democrats, although made. It also goes fundamentally to the heart of the they are severely under-represented today, to support Liberal Democrats and how they intend to vote on us. We are grateful to the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian the matter. We believe they are likely to abstain on the Swales) for being here. I hope that he will not sit on his measure, although we have not had that confirmed. We hands and will back our amendment. hope and assume that although they will abstain on the Government’s motion in relation to implementing the Mr Stewart Jackson: For the avoidance of doubt, I marriage tax allowance, they will support our call for a will be voting against Labour’s amendment. Although review. If the measure goes through, they would have as the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North much of an interest as we would in ensuring that it is (Catherine McKinnell) is a very engaging spokesman properly reviewed and monitored in the months to for her party, her speech was mischievous, disingenuous, come, and that the Government take seriously the proposals mealy-mouthed, patronising, leftie drivel—typical middle- for possible alternatives that benefit a larger number of class, tofu-munching, Guardian-reading Labour nonsense families throughout the country. that said, “We know best what’s good for working The Opposition believe that the money allocated to people, not you.” the marriage tax allowance could be put to much better The hon. Lady referred to our friends the Liberal use elsewhere. That is why we have pressed the Chancellor Democrats. I am disappointed that more of them are to scrap it, and to use the money to give tax help to not here. It is awfully hard to dislike the Liberal Democrats, many more working people instead, including more but it is well worth the effort. married couples and more families. I am delighted that in clause 11 the Government have brought forward this very important change in the tax Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): I am system, for which I have consistently campaigned since interested that the Opposition want to give tax cuts to the last general election. We retain the bond of trust hard-working people, yet they voted against the Second with the electors by introducing a proposal that we Reading of the Bill, which provided a tax cut for 25 million promised at that time to introduce by the 2015 general people. election. 285 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 286

Catherine McKinnell: I assure the hon. Gentleman lower half of the income distribution—a point astutely that I do not eat tofu, although I do not think that those made by my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing who do need to be quite so insulted. Are we to assume and Shoreham (Tim Loughton). This is not a provision from his comments that he is wedded to this policy for the middle classes, as Labour critics sometimes regardless of how inadequate its reach and implementation suggest. The truth is that the failure of our income tax will be? system to have regard for marriage in recent years has been very odd, as the Prime Minister said in response to Mr Jackson: The hon. Lady’s comic timing is exemplary. a question from the right hon. and learned Member for I will develop my more detailed arguments, if she will Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) in June 2010: allow me, given that she had the thick end of 46 minutes “I simply do not understand why, when so many other European to develop her own. That is probably the record for an countries—I remember often being lectured when I was on the Opposition spokesman—or spokesperson—although I other side of the House about how we should follow European accept that it was on the Opposition’s amendment. examples—recognise marriage in the tax system, we do not. I believe that we should bring forward proposals to recognise This has been a long time coming— marriage in the tax system…We support so many other things in the tax system, including Christmas parties and parking bicycles Tim Loughton: Forty-seven minutes. at work, so why do we not recognise marriage?”—[Official Report, 2 June 2010; Vol. 510, c. 428.] Mr Jackson: Indeed—47 minutes, as my hon. Friend says. However, it has definitely been worth waiting for. Steve McCabe: The difference is that the tax provisions In presenting a 10% partly transferable allowance, on Christmas parties and parking bicycles are extended clause 11 may not yet be worth a huge amount, but it is to all. This provision is for a very narrow segment of of seminal importance in supporting marriage in the married people and those in civil partnerships; it is tax system. For the past 15 years, our tax system has hardly an example of a general principle of marriage. been unusual in not recognising marriage, or indeed any other aspect of family responsibility. Our fiscal policy Mr Jackson: I do not think we all attend Christmas has been extraordinarily individualistic. Clause 11 changes parties or cycle. [Interruption.] The more serious point, that by inserting into our system of independent taxation which I will elucidate further if the hon. Gentleman will the transferable allowance that former Chancellor Nigel generously allow me, is that there is demonstrable evidence Lawson, the architect of independent taxation, has that the institution of marriage has a positive net impact argued it always should have had. I genuinely believe on society, cumulatively, particularly on children. There that qualifying the individualism of our current fiscal is nothing ignoble about using the tax system in a policy should be something we can all agree on, and mature democracy to support behaviour that is good that should appeal to Labour Members. The Opposition for society overall. spokesperson failed on two occasions to answer the specific question of why, in 13 years in office, her party Sheila Gilmore: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? failed to support the institution of marriage in the tax system in any meaningful way. That is regrettable on her Mr Jackson: Not at the moment. I know the hon. part, because it is disingenuous to say, “We disagree Lady is very keen, and I am sure she will try to get in with the policy but, incidentally, this is how you can later. improve it.” It is churlish and mean-spirited from a Given the scale of the public benefits associated with party that claims to support the family in the tax marriage, it is not at all surprising that most people in system, and children as well. the developed world live in countries that recognise marriage, as I said earlier in an intervention. There are Ian Swales: I can understand the hon. Gentleman’s numerous examples of this benefit that I could highlight, passion on this issue, but what would he say to a couple but given the constraints on time I will mention just a in his constituency who are both earning the minimum few. Regardless of socio-economic status and education, wage and will not benefit from this policy? cohabiting couples are between two and two and a half times more likely to break up than equivalent married Mr Jackson: I will come to the specifics later. However, couples. Women and children are significantly more my hon. Friend—I am pleased to call him that because vulnerable to violence and neglect in cohabiting, rather we serve on the Public Accounts Committee together—will than married, families. Three quarters of family breakdown know that many of his constituents in Redcar on low in families with children under five comes from the wages have benefited from our personal allowance changes. separation of non-married parents. Children are 60% Indeed, many of them have been taken out of tax more likely to have contact with separated fathers if the altogether, as have people across the north-east of England. parents were married. Separated fathers are more likely He will know, too, as will the Opposition spokesperson, to contribute to their child’s maintenance if the parents that unemployment has significantly fallen in the north-east were married. Growing up with married parents is and there are now more jobs available than in 2010. associated with better physical health in adulthood and [Interruption.] We will not take any lectures from Labour, increased longevity. Children from broken homes are which doubled youth unemployment between 1997 and nine times more likely to become young offenders, 2010. accounting for 70% of all young offenders. I would have hoped that Labour Members supported these proposals, particularly this clause, because they Kate Green: I respect the fact that the hon. Gentleman are progressive. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has is being very careful with his use of words in saying that produced a very helpful chart demonstrating how the there is an association between marriage and some of provision will disproportionately benefit those in the the outcomes he describes. What he cannot demonstrate, 287 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 288 however, is whether there is cause and effect, because we Catherine McKinnell: Does not the hon. Gentleman’s do not know whether there are other personal characteristics argument highlight the inadequacy of the Government’s that make those couples more likely to be married and proposals, in that they benefit only a third of married whether they also result in those beneficial outcomes. couples and only one in six households with children? If they want to recognise marriage in the tax system, they Mr Jackson: I will not take issue with the hon. Lady’s should recognise marriage, not a certain type of marriage intervention, because it is quite sensible. Nevertheless, and a certain few married couples. the evidence-based data in support of marriage in the tax system have been accumulated over a very long Mr Jackson: The hon. Lady is engaging in a certain period and are very clear. It is incumbent on the degree of amnesia. When her party was in government, Government not to disregard that evidence, but to take it took 7% out of this country’s gross domestic product account of it in formulating their fiscal policies. during the financial crisis. It left us with a disastrous The list goes on and the findings are put in context by legacy of debt and a huge deficit, which meant that we the fact that the Relationships Foundation calculates had to take very difficult decisions. We have to lay the that the costs of family breakdown amount to £44 billion blame for that at her party’s door. That is why we per annum and that family breakdown outside marriage cannot be more innovative in how we approach the tax is the real driver. As the Centre for Social Justice has system. We are, as always, constrained by the legacy of demonstrated, of every £7 spent as a result of the a disastrous Labour Government. Labour always leaves breakdown of young families, £1 is spent on divorce, office with more people jobless and the country in £4 on unmarried dual-registered parents who separate, trouble. and £2 on sole-registered parents. That is why the Prime Minister was absolutely right to say in response to a 1.45 pm question about how the policy could reduce the deficit: “If we are going to get control of public spending in the long Sheila Gilmore: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? term in this country, we should target the causes of higher spending, one of which is family breakdown. We should do far Mr Jackson: I will give way later, because I am sure more to recognise the importance of families, commitment and marriage”.—[Official Report, 2 June 2010; Vol. 510, c. 429.] the hon. Lady will not forget my comments. I am aware of the arguments that the relationship The purpose of clause 11 is not to try to make people between marriage and better policy outcomes is merely get married, but to remove the obstacles to those who a coincidence and that the real driver for those better wish to marry, which is different. Marriage should at outcomes has nothing to do with marriage and is based the absolute minimum be a credible, accessible option on other considerations, especially income. Those arguments for all eligible couples. However, the failure of our simply do not make sense. Apart from anything else, the income tax system—unlike that accessed by the majority fact that the millennium cohort study demonstrates that of people living in Europe—to recognise marriage means the poorest 20% of married couples are more stable that the fiscal obstacle to marriage is a real concern. than all but the richest 20% of cohabiting couples The size of the couple penalty in this country, as outlined makes it plain that marriage is a significant, independent by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, is deeply worrying. determinant of stability. Alison Seabeck: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Sheila Gilmore: Will the hon. Gentleman consider the involvement of other variables? For example, those who Mr Jackson: No, I will not give way—not even to the are married are likely to be together for longer than hon. Lady. those who are not and who split up, and the length of the relationship is likely to contribute to the stability of As others have noted, the social policy charity Christian the children and their relationship with their parents. Action Research and Education conducted an annual international tax comparison for 2012—the latest year for which we have comparative data—which demonstrated Mr Jackson: I accept that, which is why I think it is that the burden on a one-earner married couple on an unbecoming to focus on £3.85. We are not arguing that average wage was a significant 45% greater than the this is merely an issue of monetary transaction. It is OECD average. about accepting that the inherent benefits of marriage are good for the individuals involved and, principally, It is not acceptable that we should make the option of their children, as well as for families, communities and marriage inaccessible in this country, and so much more society as a whole. We have the evidence. so than the OECD average. Clause 11 will take a vital first step in the direction of addressing that problem, Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): Is my hon. Friend but the limited nature of the partially transferrable aware of the work of Harry Benson of the Bristol allowance means that it will only begin to erode the Community Family Trust, who has found that during incentive not to marry. We must go much further in the early parenthood the single biggest predictor of stability next Parliament to create a genuinely level playing field. is whether parents are married, even when age, income, Given the huge public policy benefits of marriage, there education, benefits and ethnic group are taken into is a compelling case for a nudge to marry, although a account? level playing field would be a massive step forward.

Mr Jackson: My hon. Friend makes a very strong Alison Seabeck: I am sorry, but how many people in point. I pay tribute to her for the work she has done in this Chamber thought, “Oops! I can’t get married because this area and I hope she will continue to do it. I look I’ve got a fiscal obstacle in the way,” given that the forward to hearing her contribution later. average cost of a wedding is about £10,000? 289 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 290

Mr Jackson: I know that this debate is apposite different Lobbies this afternoon. I cannot agree with his because the hon. Lady recently tripped along the path assessment of the value of this tax change for a range of of happy matrimony, on which I congratulate her, albeit reasons. belatedly. I am not sure whether the issue of £3.85 came Like many measures introduced by this Government, into it for the right hon. Member for Greenwich and this one is disingenuous at best. It was brought forward Woolwich (Mr Raynsford). to a fanfare of trumpets, after a great deal of pressure If I could move on before we dwell too long on the from Conservative Back Benchers, but it is basically hon. Lady’s love life, I have read in many places that the unfair. I pick up a sense of that unfairness, which is provision discriminates against widows and widowers, driven through the tax system, when I do a street people who leave abusive relationships and working surgery every Saturday and in my postbag. That unfairness couples. The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne is what the public have the greatest problem with, North regurgitated that argument earlier, but it completely whether in relation to the tax system or to other misunderstands the policy. Government changes. It is also indicative of the problems we have seen in the House this week. We in this place do First, if the widow or the widower was the homemaking not read the public mood as well as we ought to at spouse, their personal allowance would not die with times, and this measure is yet another example of that their working spouse; it would automatically return to problem. them so they could benefit if they re-entered the job market. Secondly, dual-earner couples already benefit from individual personal allowances, so they are already Mr Burrowes: The hon. Lady is talking about fairness. benefiting from both allowances. Thirdly, on those leaving Who is it fair for—the 80% of people in the OECD area abusive relationships—this is a very important issue who live in countries that recognise marriage in the tax and it would be remiss of the hon. Lady not to raise system, or the 20% who live in countries that do not? it—if a marriage ends, the homemaking spouse, who had previously transferred the tax allowance to their Alison Seabeck: Plymouth has one of the largest spouse in paid employment, would be required to take percentages of single parents in the country—I will back their allowance because the marriage had ended. return to that point—and my constituents think that It would not be stolen from them by their former the measure is unfair. How people in other countries spouse. view it is entirely up to them, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that my constituents do not see it as fair. If the argument is that this policy does nothing for widows and widowers, my response is that that is true of The transferable allowance—a tax break of about many policies. Most policies have a sharp focus: if we £1,000—discriminates against millions of families, especially responded to every policy solution by saying, “What those headed by single parents, as well as against non- about those who won’t benefit?” the implication would married couples. We know from the Office for National be that we should introduce only polices that affect Statistics that there are about 2 million single-parent everyone equally. However, in the real world, where we households. They find life complicated enough at the often need specialist and focused policies, that is simply moment. They are being hit with the bedroom tax, not possible. There is nothing to stop us bringing forward while some will definitely not benefit from this tax another policy specifically to help widows and widowers—I change, and most feel that this Government are not on am sure that Treasury Ministers are listening on that their side. They face the same challenges as married issue—and public policy makes provision for them in couples with children, but they face them alone. They other ways. Many widows and widowers were once in have to survive on one income, and they are mostly not one-earner families and will therefore welcome clause 11 single parents from choice. Sadly, death, divorce and for family members who are now in such a position. In separation take their toll on relationships, and financial short, I warmly welcome clause 11. pressures mount in every one of those circumstances. What have this Government done? They have introduced On the current drafting, the failure to make provision a measure that will favour just a third of couples and for a tapered withdrawal of the 10% transferable allowance just one in six families with children. is an oversight that should be corrected for fairly obvious reasons. I very much hope that the Exchequer Secretary I am almost speechless about this measure. My hon. will put that right through a Government amendment Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North on Report. (Catherine McKinnell) drew attention to the fact that men will benefit from it far more than women. She I congratulate the Prime Minister and Chancellor on highlighted other areas in which men have introducing this seminal provision. I very much hope disproportionately benefited from changes brought in that the whole House will recognise its significance in by this Government—this predictably male-dominated qualifying the individualism of our tax system and Government—and that fact has not been lost on the reinserting some recognition of the importance of family electorate. Quite frankly, women feel that, for some responsibility. It is a first step that will help to make the reason or other, they are becoming second-class citizens option of marriage less inaccessible to those on average in tax terms and all other terms. I am picking that up on and below-average incomes, because it is about social the doorstep, and my guess is that we will see it reflected equity as well. We must build on it in the next Parliament; in the ballot box in the elections ahead. and with a majority Conservative Government, we will. As I said, my constituency has an above-average number of single parents—roughly 38%—who, as I am Alison Seabeck: It is always interesting to follow the sure other hon. Members will acknowledge, are struggling hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson). He and I to make ends meet. It is wrong for the Government to have recently campaigned jointly on the future of our encourage one type of relationship over another. The Land Registry offices, but I am afraid that we will be in policy discriminates against widows, single parents and 291 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 292 couples who both work, as well as parents who choose tax allowance—the hon. Lady can look this up in the not to marry.Importantly, this tax break might discriminate record—I specifically said that the allowance would against children who grow up in single-parent families, apply both to civil partnerships and to married couples and against adults who leave abusive relationships. on enactment. That has never been in question, and the In its recent report, “The Home Front”, Demos has allowance should be absolutely consistent. The law argued: now, however I may have voted, is that we recognise “Evidence shows that it is the quality of relationships rather same-sex marriages and that the tax and benefit advantages than relationship status which has the greater effect on…children’s that go with marriage must be applied to those new outcomes. There is no evidence of a ‘marriage effect’, rather circumstances. That is not an issue. There are many marriage is probably a proxy for more successful relationships… issues that we may debate, but that is not one of them. many married couples do not have children, making this proposal both moralising and inefficient, as it draws resources away from The Labour party did not and continues not to some of the most at-risk families.” recognise marriage in the tax and benefit system. Labour This is a tax change to please the Tory few, but it chooses to ignore the fact that marriage, whether we discriminates against millions of hard-working families. like it or not, happens to be the most stable environment It should be scrapped. We should support the amendment, in which to bring up children. I was slightly surprised by which demands a closer look at and a review of the the lengthy contribution of the hon. Member for Newcastle measure’s impact, so I will support my hon. Friend in upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) because, given the Lobby this afternoon. her previous role as shadow children’s Minister and her great interest and expertise in that area, she did not Tim Loughton: I do not think that the Opposition are once elaborate on the benefit for children of an arrangement being honest with us. Last week, they tabled a reasoned such as we are seeking to introduce. As far as I am amendment declining to give the Bill a Second Reading, concerned, the heart of what we should be achieving is one reason being that the creation of greater stability for children, and it so “it offers a marriage tax allowance which will help only a third of happens that marriages do that best of all. married couples, rather than a 10 pence starting rate of tax which would help millions more families”. Catherine McKinnell: The Opposition are committed Coming from a party that dispensed with a 10p tax rate to supporting families and children. The fact is that this when it was in government, those reasons show marriage tax allowance benefits only one in six households inconsistency and brass neck, while the opening speech with children and only one in three marriages. Although of the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North the hon. Gentleman is making a passionate speech, the (Catherine McKinnell) made a good case for extending policy completely fails to address the issue. the transferable married couple’s tax allowance to make it fairer and more inclusive. Tim Loughton: That is a good reason for going further. Amendment 3 does not offer outright opposition. It The debut of a married couple’s tax allowance in this is a fudged amendment, which calls for a review, including Bill is a starting point, and it is the first recognition of “a calculation of the proportion of married couples and civil marriage in this country’s tax and benefit system. I partners who are eligible…;…an assessment of the impact…;…the would like to include many more married couples, cost to the Exchequer…; and…an assessment of alternative tax reliefs”. particularly concentrating on those with children under the age of five. That is where the allowance can have the For starters, we know all that. There is a contrast greatest impact. We need to provide the greatest stability between that and the Labour Opposition’s new clause 1 for young children in their most formative and on child care provision, which was considered yesterday. impressionable years. It asked for a different sort of tax relief or public subsidy, but it did not have any conditions attached to it about a review after six months, a calculation of the Mr Burrowes: The married couple’s tax allowance is a proportion of people who benefit, or an assessment of starting point, but I want to revise my hon. Friend’s its impact. description of this being its debut. Marriage was recognised The Opposition are entirely disingenuous and in the tax system until 2000. We are only properly inconsistent. Why do they not just come out and say, restoring what countries across the world, including “We fundamentally—completely and utterly—disagree more than 80% of European countries, recognise. We with and oppose the concept of transferable married are simply going back to what was the case. We should couple’s tax allowances”? Why have they not done so in not have moved away from that recognition in the first the amendment that we are debating? That would have place. been more honest, and we could then have had a proper debate. I think that the Opposition are being disingenuous. Tim Loughton: My hon. Friend is right. He has been a pioneer in this area for a long time. The previous Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): On the subject Government abolished the recognition, and they had of inconsistency, the hon. Gentleman voted against 13 years to try to do something about recognising giving same-sex couples the right to marry, so having families in the tax system. Despite the easy words of the opposed that union, does he now support their having a hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North, the tax break? previous Government did absolutely nothing in practice. That is the record on which they should be judged. 2pm Tim Loughton: During consideration of last year’s Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): If the hon. Member Finance Bill, when my hon. Friends and I put forward for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) is correct about in an amendment the concept of the married couple’s his party being pro-marriage and wanting to prevent 293 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 294

[Jenny Chapman] Tim Loughton: Interestingly, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has done a lot of work in that area—this divorce, how does he account for the decline of divorce also relates to what the hon. Member for Stretford and between 2003 and 2009? The divorce rate only started to Urmston (Kate Green) said about child poverty—and go up again after 2010. its report states: “The risk of poverty is much higher for children in couple Tim Loughton: Very simply, because the number of families where only one parent works; sole earner families account marriages went down. The change in the divorce rate is for a significant minority of poor families with children. Many a simple statistical manifestation of the number of fathers”— marriages. this applies to mothers, too— The role of the Liberal Democrats, who are heroically “have to work long hours, making it harder for them to get represented here today by the lone star hon. Member involved in family life and more difficult for mothers to work. To for Redcar (Ian Swales), have perhaps been more honest enable more low-income families to have both partners in work”. about the married couple’s tax allowance, which they The Joseph Rowntree Foundation makes a case for why have never supported. Their leader has some bizarre such recognition helps lower paid families, too. My reasons for not supporting it, but they have been absolutely long-term aspiration is that we should fully extend the honest. If they had not been involved in some sort of allowance, but at this stage, as I stated in my proposed deal, of which we are completely oblivious, they might amendment to last year’s Finance Bill, I would like us to have been here to vote against the measure, and of concentrate on families with children under the age of course we are very disappointed that they are not here. five. If it meant that we could extend a more generous The measure will benefit 4 million couples, including allowance to families with children under that age, I 15,000 in civil partnerships and hopefully a good many would be happy for the allowance not to extend to who adopt the new status that the hon. Member for married couples generally. Such an amendment has East Lothian (Fiona O’Donnell) mentioned earlier. My been costed at between £700 million and £750 million, hon. Friends and I welcome the last-minute inclusion of which is affordable in the context of what else is happening. the transferable married couple’s tax allowance in this Finance Bill. The allowance was promised in our manifesto, and it will initially be worth up to £210, but I contrast Fiona O’Donnell: What is the hon. Gentleman’s definition that with the up to £10,000-worth of subsidies rightly of a family? He keeps talking about families, rather being made available for child care assistance—albeit than married couples with children. Does he consider a that that will be available also for higher rate taxpayers family—I hope this is not what he intends—only to be whose household earnings may be as high as £300,000— one in which a couple is married? which is still very far from a level playing field. That is why some of us, when the economy has recovered to the Tim Loughton: I am talking about married couples, extent that it needs to recover after the car crash of which now take different forms. As we have already 13 years under Labour, ultimately want to see a fully discussed, the definition includes same-sex marriages, transferable married couple’s tax allowance—the full civil partnerships and conventionally married couples. £10,500-worth, not just 10%. The married couple’s tax That is to whom the allowance should apply, which has allowance is linked to the personal allowance in the Bill. never been in doubt. The allowance is about making it easier for parents to choose the best way to bring up Ian Swales: As with other Government Members, the their children. Frankly, it is insulting to describe the hon. Gentleman is making a passionate case, but we are measure as discriminating against single parents. considering the detail of the policy. Is he not concerned that the policy will effectively introduce a new 20% tax rate below the personal allowance as the married couple’s Alison Seabeck: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? tax allowance is progressively withdrawn on the second earner between £9,500 and £10,500? Tim Loughton: I am about to address the hon. Lady’s point. She may then want to intervene. Tim Loughton: My hon. Friend the Member for Most single parents are not single parents by design Peterborough (Mr Jackson) addressed some of those or intention. Many are single parents because they have problems, which I hope my hon. Friends on the Treasury been deserted, subjected to violence or for other reasons, Bench will consider as the Bill progresses. Perhaps they and they are doing an incredible job of bringing up can come back with an amendment either in Committee children in very difficult circumstances. We are doing or on Report. things for them and we probably need to do more for many of them. However, that should not preclude our Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): Will the wanting to do more for people who get no recognition hon. Gentleman give way? whatever in the tax system, who are also often bringing up children in difficult circumstances. Just because one Tim Loughton: I am being terribly generous, but of is in favour of introducing a transferable married couple’s course I will give way. tax allowance, the implication is not that one is in some way against people who happen to be single parents or Helen Goodman: The hon. Gentleman is being most to be bringing up children on their own. It is a typical generous. He mentioned that his long-term aspiration is Labour argument that if someone is for something, for the transferable allowance to be extended to the full they must be against something else. This is about £10,000 of the personal allowance. Does he know what achieving a much more level playing field for people the distributional implications of that would be? who choose to engage in a relationship of marriage. 295 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 296

Alison Seabeck: I thank the hon. Gentleman for we might need to do more. Uniquely, married couples, giving way. If he will allow me, I will read a text that I civil partners and same-sex marriage partners are have received from one of my constituents. She says: discriminated against in our tax system. “As one of YOUR 38%…nonsense I and kids should be disadvantaged because I chose to leave abusive relationship and Mr Stewart Jackson: My hon. Friend is making a bring them up alone in happy home!” powerful and fluent case. He spoke about the popularity I am really sorry, but that is the view of the public on of the policy with Labour voters. Is it not also the case this measure. that significant polling evidence shows that young people across all classes, ethnicities and races support the institution Tim Loughton: That is the view of one constituent of marriage and hope one day to be part of it? who has not yet listened to the whole debate. Introducing a married couple’s transferable tax allowance in no way 2.15 pm disadvantages that constituent. [Interruption.] In what way is she financially disadvantaged? It is a typical Tim Loughton: Absolutely. It sends out a very poor Labour response to say that if someone is in favour of message to those people for Labour to say that marriage something, they must be anti something else. I am in is very nice, but we will not recognise it in the tax and favour of doing a lot more for constituents who find benefit system. themselves in that position through no fault of their Frankly, it is those who oppose this measure—we own and who need help, support and recognition. However, have heard them again today—as some sort of 1950s there are also many married couples who need support throwback who are being judgmental about how certain in bringing up their children, often in difficult circumstances. people choose to live in their relationships. Disgracefully, Just because we want to help them, it does not mean they are seeking to pit working mothers and dads that we are disadvantaging somebody else. against stay-at-home mothers and dads, who are no less, and often more, hard-working. That certainly applies Andrew Selous: Of course, everyone in every part of to the increasing number of stay-at-home dads who this House is against abuse in any type of relationship. have made a conscious decision to give up a career If we want to reduce abuse, does my hon. Friend agree because they think that is how they can best bring up that we should recognise that women and children are their children. The state should respect that. significantly more vulnerable to violence and neglect in My support for a transferable married couple’s tax cohabiting families than in married families? What we allowance has never been based on a moral stance on are doing today is part of addressing that issue. types of relationship. My concern, as one might expect from someone who formerly had responsibility in Tim Loughton: My hon. Friend has done a great government for children, has always been based on amount of work on this issue and there is a much bigger what is best for children. That is why I favour the picture. allowance for families with young children. This policy is popular among the public. It is popular Quite simply, if a 15-year-old is living at home with with a majority of Labour voters. It is even popular both parents, there is a 97% likelihood that their parents with an awful lot of Liberal Democrat voters, despite will be married. There is a one in 10 chance that married that party’s policy being against it. Last May, the Liberal parents will split up by the time their child reaches five, Democrat Secretary of State for Business, Innovation but a one in three chance that unmarried, cohabiting and Skills attacked the “prejudice”directed at stay-at-home parents will split up by that time. As the Centre for mothers. I am sure that he would have included stay-at-home Social Justice has shown, those who do not grow up in fathers to be inclusive. It is deeply insulting to the many two-parent, married families are 75% more likely to fail millions of married couples who have decided to make at school and 70% more likely to be involved with drugs a lifelong commitment to each other that is recognised or to have alcohol problems. The Joseph Rowntree in law in front of their family and friends to suggest that Foundation, which I have already quoted, has identified we are discriminating in some way against other people. poorer outcomes for children from separating families. Some 90% of young people aspire to get married. Importantly, a stable home can raise a child’s chances of Some 75% of cohabiting couples under the age of 35 escaping the poverty trap by 82%. Let us not forget that also aspire to get married. There are many forms of family breakdown, the prevention of which is the thrust family in the 21st century and many people do a fantastic behind this measure, is costing us £46 billion. That is job of keeping their families together and bringing up about £1,460 for every taxpayer in this country every children, often in difficult circumstances. However, as year. Marriage accounts for 54% of births but only 20% many of my hon. Friends have said, almost uniquely of break-ups among families with children under the among the large OECD economies, the UK does not age of five. recognise the commitment and stability of marriage in I am therefore surprised that nowhere in any of the the tax system until one partner dies. Worse still, one-earner contributions from Labour Members in support of the married couples on an average wage with two children amendment did they touch on the outcome for children. face a tax burden that is 45% greater than the OECD That is the most important target at which the measure average, and that gap continues to widen. is aimed. The poorest 20% of married couples are more To introduce such a recognition of marriage, particularly stable than all but the richest 20% of cohabiting couples, in the modest form suggested in the Bill, is not to as my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough disparage parents who find themselves single through (Mr Jackson) said. no fault of their own, nor to undermine couples with Clause 11 alone will not solve all the problems I have two hard-working parents, all of whom rightly get help set out. I am not naive enough to suggest that £210, or and support from the state in other forms and for whom whatever the result is, will represent the difference between 297 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 298

[Tim Loughton] Alison Seabeck: Does my hon. Friend share my concern that the new Financial Secretary to the Treasury and staying married and getting divorced or between getting Minister for Women voted against same-sex marriage, married and cohabiting. However, it does send out the and therefore takes a slightly ambiguous position on clear and strong message that we value couples who the matter? take the decision to bring up their children within marriage. There is a need to address the lack of a level Steve McCabe: I am afraid that is true. I know that playing field in bringing up children between couples some people will not be comfortable with having to be who are not married and those who are. There are reminded of that, but it happens to be the case. 2.2 million households in which one partner is in full-time To return to the point that the Government’s position work and the other is not earning. Those households is slightly misleading, we know that the Prime Minister include 1.2 million children and 700,000 of them include himself has been confused about it. Like his hon. Friends, a youngest child who is under the age of five. Those are he thought that he was introducing a policy for all the families we should start with. Those are the families married couples paying the basic rate of tax. I can who deserve our support and recognition most of all. imagine that, in this day and age, it is pretty hard for the This clause, at last, goes some way towards rectifying poor Prime Minister to keep up with the all the shifts that. and machinations in his Government, but surely there is something wrong with a policy that deludes even the Steve McCabe: I support the amendment and oppose Prime Minister into thinking he is giving a tax break to clause 11. I fear that the clause shows all that is wrong all married couples paying the basic rate, which he is with the modern Tory party. It is based on an illusion—the not. Thank goodness we have had the opportunity to idea that the Tory party has some special affection for set the record straight in this debate; otherwise the poor marriage that is shown in its policy actions. Conservative man might have gone around the country perpetrating Members have been keen to say that Labour was wrong that calumny. People might have begun to doubt his not introduce such a measure during our 13 years in work on other things, as well—his whole judgment government, but of course we were not wrong. Had we might have come into question. Thank goodness we done so, we would have got into exactly the same mess have had the chance to challenge that idea. the Government are in today. We would have been perpetrating a con on the electorate by pretending a We certainly need to review the policy, because were level of support for married couples and families with it to be extended to the nearly 9 million married couples children that our policy simply could not deliver. I have who pay the basic rate of tax, as the Prime Minister a great deal of respect for the hon. Member for East implied, it would cost considerably more than the Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), but we have Chancellor’s projections. For that reason alone our heard that he suffers from that delusion. He thinks that amendment, which asks for a review, is crucial. We need he is helping people with children, but in fact he is to know exactly what the policy will cost and what it helping a narrow band of those people. would cost were it to meet the Prime Minister’s aspirations. As we have heard, the policy is not a general recognition As we have heard, the policy will give £200 back to of marriage in the tax system. It is a policy for a few 3.4 million couples, but other Government policies will married couples and some in civil partnerships—perhaps have made the average family £974 a year worse off by as few as 3.4 million of the UK’s 12.4 million couples the time of the election. Some 85% of the tax allowance who are married or in civil partnerships. In some ways it will go to men. Perhaps that harks back to the good old is a classic coalition policy, because it does not really days of Tory marriage—I do not know—but in this day satisfy anyone. Those in the Tory party who favour and age I do not think the policy will be broadly traditional marriage never intended that the tax relief accepted by women up and down the country. As we should go to those in civil partnerships—that was not have heard, it will not be available to married couples whose income falls below the personal allowance. what they were arguing for at the outset. [HON.MEMBERS: “Yes, it was.”] No, it wasn’t. If Conservative Members [Interruption.] I think the hon. Member for Suffolk want to tell me that the hon. Member for Aldershot Coastal (Dr Coffey) has something stuck in her throat. (Sir Gerald Howarth) is a keen advocate of civil If she wants to intervene, I— partnerships, I guess that they have missed his speeches and blogs in recent years. Dr Thérèse Coffey rose—

Mr Burrowes: I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman Steve McCabe: Hang on, you have to wait until you wants to look at his party’s manifesto, but if he looks at are invited. ours, he will see that it made a clear promise to the electorate that we are keeping today. The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We are not having two Members on their feet. Steve McCabe: I am happy to say that I have looked Let us see if I can help—Mr McCabe, are you giving at the Conservatives’ manifesto, and it did not spell out way? the narrow band of people whom they intended to benefit. It created the pretence that they would help all Steve McCabe: I think I will give the hon. Lady her married couples. The hon. Gentleman has persistently chance. said during the debate that everywhere else offers the system that we are discussing, but I looked it up while Dr Coffey: I thank the hon. Gentleman. This point he was talking, and New Zealand, Sweden, Finland, has been made before, but we cannot have such a Greece and Hungary do not have it, so his “everywhere recognition in the tax system for people who do not pay else” may be wrong. tax. However, the Government have taken many other 299 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 300 measures for them, including ensuring that Labour’s share common ground on one group—people with fuel duty escalator did not operate. If it had, fuel would children—whom we might want to help through the tax be 90p a gallon more, or £450 a year for the average system. However, how on earth have we got into a household. situation in which only 1.4 million couples with children benefit from a proposal? That is an example of a policy Steve McCabe: The hon. Lady is right, and Government that completely fails to do what he would like. Members have attempted to make that point before. She is absolutely right that the VAT rise put enormous pressure on both petrol costs and all sorts of other 2.30 pm family incomes. I agree entirely with many of the Tory MPs who At its best, the Government’s measure will reward wrote to The Daily Telegraph about the policy in one about 3.4 million of the country’s couples who are respect: the benefits of marriage to society do not married or in civil partnerships with £4 a week. That is depend on one’s tax code. It is a failing to make that the figure from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, but if the judgment—it is failing that means that we exclude Government have better figures and want to challenge widows, single parents, deserted mothers and cohabiting the IFS, that will be welcome. I would be interested to couples. They have the same right to benefit from the know not only the cost of the tax relief but the Government and the tax system but are excluded. That administrative costs of a £4 a week benefit for 3.4 million is why the policy is wrong. A Government can do many couples. It does not strike me as the best way to reduce good things to encourage stable relationships and family the overall costs of tax collection or harmonise the life. Unfortunately, this policy is a phoney, misguided system. and poorly targeted measure. It simply is not one of the As was acknowledged earlier, the transfer of allowances good things that we could do. reintroduces an element of joint taxation, a measure that the Tory party sought to abolish when it moved to Fiona Bruce: I support clause 11, and acknowledge individual taxation as long ago as 1990. The hon. and support the excellent speeches made by my hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) talked Friends the Members for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) about all the countries that recognise marriage, but the and for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton). move to individual taxation is a much bigger trend in I support marriage, not for moral, religious or ethical tax systems across the world. It seems to me that it is the reasons, but because, as they said, and as all the evidence Tory party that is moving in the wrong direction, because shows—I shall provide evidence shortly and will not be as we have heard in this debate, Conservative Members deterred by the fact that others have quoted it—marriage want to move to a fully transferrable tax system. They promotes stability, security and better life outcomes for want to go back to the days of old, and that is exactly children; improves health and well-being for the parties what they are going to do. [Interruption.] I think the to the marriages, notably as they age; and strengthens hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham has the wider community, as those in married families are something to say. Would he like me to give way to him? more likely to be actively involved in it. The Opposition, as the debate has shown, do not get Tim Loughton: No. it that the proposal benefits not only those couples who will receive the allowance, but the much wider society. Steve McCabe: Oh, he just wants to mutter in the Supporting the proposal, and supporting marriage through corner. Well, nothing new there. the tax system, is a matter of social justice. Underlying Tim Loughton: Okay, I will intervene. so many social problems that the country faces is the problem of family breakdown and, in particular, family Steve McCabe: Oh, he has changed his mind. He breakdown outside marriage. Many hon. Members are wants to mutter more loudly now. reluctant to talk about that for fear of being branded judgmental, but the fact is that helping to strengthen Tim Loughton: The hon. Gentleman tantalises me health and well-being through supporting marriage is too much. Will he undertake that, in the highly unlikely to help to tackle a key, root cause—relationship and disastrous event that there is a Labour-led Government breakdown—of so many contemporary problems, after the next election, he wants this tax allowance to be such as addiction, abuse and mental health issues, and abolished in their first Finance Bill, so that 3.4 million the increasing problem of acute loneliness, especially in married couples—or 4 million or however many—will old age. no longer benefit from it because of Labour’s warped The proposal is even more a matter of social justice priorities? because, as the Centre for Social Justice reports, indications Steve McCabe: I have never thought of myself as show that, whatever the liberal press might say, the someone who tempts the hon. Gentleman, but I can better off in our society get the fact that the benefits of give a commitment that a Labour Government would marriage are worth buying into and are marrying while move to a fair tax policy. That is what this is all about, the less well off are increasingly not getting married. which Conservative Members fail to recognise. According to the CSJ, that is causing a widening gulf between better-off married people and less well-off Tim Loughton: Is that a yes or a no? unmarried people. The latter do not access the health and well-being benefits that I and other hon. Members Steve McCabe: As I said, I am in favour of fair tax. I have mentioned and that marriage can bring. Rather, say it again, so that the hon. Gentleman understands. they are falling into an increasing cycle of negative That is the problem with his party’s policy—it is unfair. outcomes and social instability, which is inter-generational. If the policy is for only some civil partnerships and If we really care about building a society that promotes married couples, we could target it better. He and I social equality rather than inequality, and one that 301 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 302

[Fiona Bruce] are small but, none the less, the policy says, “We value you and your role in society if you want to stay at offers a key route out of poverty for those who may home.” otherwise be trapped within it, and if we are really If we are serious about finding effective solutions to serious about social justice, one key policy is backing community breakdown and to the poverty that blights marriage. parts of Britain characterised by family breakdown, As my hon. Friends the Members for Peterborough educational failure, economic dependence, indebtedness and for East Worthing and Shoreham have stated, the and addictions, supporting marriage is one way to do statistics are stark. Children aged five are five times so. The public support that, contrary to the view of the more likely not to be living with both parents if their hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), parents are not married. The position is far worse for who is no longer in her place—[Interruption.] I apologise. children aged 15. Women and children are significantly She is in the Chamber, but in a different place. I endeavoured more vulnerable to violence in unmarried families. Teenagers to intervene on her because, according to a YouGov living outside married family relationships have much poll, 85% of people support giving financial recognition higher delinquency rates than others. Seventy per cent. to married couples through the tax system, and 83% of of young offenders come from unmarried families. The the public think that tackling family breakdown is prevalence of mental health issues among children living important. Even more starkly, according to the Centre outside married family relationships is 75% higher than for Social Justice, half of lone mothers think it is among children of married parents. important that children grow up with a father. Yes, the proposal will cost the Exchequer—I believe Fiona O’Donnell: Does the hon. Lady believe that, if the shadow Minister said it will cost some £550 million—but a tax break acts as an incentive or a reward, more that is dwarfed by the cost of family breakdown which, couples would marry, and that those problems would in 2012, had risen to some £44 billion. It is estimated by then go away? the Relationships Foundation to have an equivalent cost to the UK taxpayer of £1,470 a year each. Of Fiona Bruce: The measure sends out a clear marker course, that figure is still rising—currently £46 billion from the Government that marriage works. That is why and increasing. it is important. I absolutely agree that it will not be an Support for marriage, therefore, simply cannot be incentive, but I hope it will be an encouragement. I hope dismissed as giving money to those who are already it is a start that will be built upon. comfortable. As we have heard, this proposal will On old age, 90% of all care beds in hospitals and care disproportionately benefit those on the lower half of homes are occupied by unmarried men and women. the income scale, but it is much more than that. It is a Couples who separate and who have never been married matter of social justice. Supporting marriage is progressive. are less likely to support each other in old age and, It is the right thing to do, not only for individuals but apparently, their children are less likely to support their for the beneficial public consequences it promotes. If elderly parents. arrangements have beneficial public consequences, such On the positive side, the commitment that marriage as good environmental conduct or saving for one’s requires in terms of the emotional, economic and social pension, it is established practice that such public benefits investment in the relationship in turn generates security, are recognised by the tax system. So it should be with health and longevity. As we have heard, even the poorest marriage. 20% of married couples are more stable than all but the richest 20% of cohabiting couples. The health gain from Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): Is there any provision marriage could be as large as the benefit from giving up that would mean that people who have been together as smoking, leading some researchers to suggest that, if a family—a man and a woman, with children—for a marriage were a drug, it would be hailed as a miracle certain period of time, say five years, would be able to cure. I could continue, but the evidence is legion. count in the same way as being married to get the tax None of that is to suggest that all married families break? The benefits would then be almost the same, enjoy better outcomes than any single-parent family or would they not? cohabiting couple. Clearly, there are dysfunctional married families and successful single parents and cohabiting Fiona Bruce: The benefits that are proposed in this couples. However, the weight of evidence is firmly in clause are for married couples. That is the way in which favour of stable, publically committed, married families our society recognises a permanent and lifelong being the most beneficial structure. commitment that is intended by the parties. Of course I would like to see more, but I welcome this Steve McCabe: I am interested in what the hon. Lady positive start. I would like to see a department for is saying. I am not exactly sure what the source of the families, a dedicated family policy across government evidence she quotes is, but does the evidence draw any and greater investment in relationship education for distinction between the impact on married couples of young people, both in school and later for those embarking whom both partners work and the impact on married on relationships or contemplating having a family. In couples of whom only one partner works? Has that the meantime, I fully support this proposal. It will distinction influenced this tax policy? encourage marriage and sends out an important signal that, for the first time in a long time from the Government, Fiona Bruce: This tax policy increases the opportunity marriage is valued in our society—something the last for choice. Many mothers and fathers want to stay at Government never did. It places Britain in the position home and do not want to go have to go out to work. I of recognising marriage in the tax system, whereas we appreciate that the financial implications of the policy were the only country in Europe not to do so. Is it any 303 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 304 coincidence that the UK has one of the highest levels of reason we are concerned about this policy is—as the family breakdown in Europe? We have to do what we hon. Gentleman should understand—that we can only can to change that, and this is one way. As the Prime spend the money once. We cannot spend it twice or Minister said, this change will provide support. Our thrice over—[Interruption.] Government Members talk support for families and marriage puts us on the side of a good talk, but they do not seem to understand the a progressive politics and on the side of change that practical implications. says, “We can stop social decline, we can fix our broken People in this country are facing a severe cost of society and we can make this country a better place to living crisis. We are seeing an increase in the number of live for everyone.” children living in absolute poverty. More than 600,000 families are going to food banks. If hon. Members had Helen Goodman: I am pleased to follow the hon. any real concern for child well-being, they would address Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) and I certainly those issues, not come here proposing £700 million of will not yield one inch to her in the value I place on the expenditure on a tiny group. importance of marriage. Like her, I am a member of the Mothers’ Union, the Church of England organisation Andrew Selous: Those of us on the Government that promotes and supports stable family life in this Benches care deeply about child poverty, and we believe country.However, she is making a mistake. The undoubted that family breakdown is a cause of child poverty. By benefits of stable relationships could be far better trying to deal with breakdown, we are dealing with a encouraged by the Government in several ways: if, for severe cause of child poverty. example, resources for tackling domestic violence were not being reduced; if, for example, we had compulsory Helen Goodman: If the hon. Gentleman would pause sex and relationship education in schools that prepared for a second, he must surely understand that giving people for healthy adult relationships; and if, for example, people an extra £200 a year is not likely to enable them we had a decent child support system that did not to continue their marriages when they are under stress. incentivise the non-resident parent to ignore their It does not make sense. For £4 a week, the couple could responsibilities to their children, because that is what is not even have a pint of beer together. The whole thing is happening. Instead of tackling those real problems, or absurd— looking at the factors that put families under stress—debt, long hours and zero-hours contracts—the hon. Lady ignores them. She does not understand that those factors Tim Loughton: It should be higher. are the cause of rows, tension and stress in families. If Government Members turned their attention to policies Helen Goodman: The hon. Gentleman says that, but that would make a real difference, instead of faffing the policy is not well targeted. The transferable marriage around with this fatuous married couple’s allowance, tax allowance will help just one third of married couples. families would be a lot better off. If we scrapped this allowance and had a mansion tax on homes worth more than £2 million, we could have a tax Andrew Selous: If this policy is so fatuous, why is it cut of £100 for 24 million people. that more than 80% of the population covered by the This allowance will go to a third of married couples, OECD live in countries that recognise marriage in the and 85% of the benefit will go to men, not to women. tax system? Are they all completely wrong? Are they are Only one in six families with children will get it, and all wedded to fatuous systems? families will only get it if they have only one earner in the family. My test for whether or not this is a good policy is a conversation I had with a constituent of mine 2.45 pm recently. She is a shop worker in a supermarket and Helen Goodman: That is exactly the point that I was works 16 hours a week. She has two school-age children. about to come on to. The hon. Member for East Worthing Her husband is not working, because he had an industrial and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) said that we should injury. He is on employment and support allowance place the well-being of children at the centre of this which, under this Government, will come to an end policy. That is a perfectly reasonable starting point for after 365 days. I simply do not know how a family of this debate, but which country is near the bottom of the four can be expected to live on 16 hours at minimum UNICEF child well-being table and which is at the top? wage and two lots of child benefit. She cannot. She will The country near the bottom is the UK: the country at lose her tax credits, because she cannot get a shift to the top is Denmark, which has the highest rate of single increase her hours to 24 a week. Instead of dealing with parenthood in Europe. It is at the top because it has a people like that, who are doing the most responsible proper welfare state, decent child care and properly things and struggling against all the odds, we have this functioning systems so that people can look after their totally mis-targeted transferable allowance proposal. children properly. If we want to do something for The Chancellor does not agree with it and the Prime children, we should have policies that promote the Minister does not agree with it, so why are they doing well-being of all children, not just a small minority of it? They have made it absolutely clear, in all discussions, children who happen to live in a particular family that this is about seeing off the Tory right. structure. I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Haltemprice The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham and Howden (Mr Davis) is not in the Chamber. He had asked, “Why do Opposition Members suggest that just three articles on this subject in the newspapers this because you are in favour of marriage, you are against morning. The one in The Times is headlined, “Davis the other patterns of family life?” That is not my view. I am kingmaker plots the next leadership challenge”. He in favour of traditional families, as I have said, but I wrote an article for the Daily Mail online promoting also think that we need to support all families. The large-scale new breaks for married couples and making 305 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 306

[Helen Goodman] arguments both ways. I accept absolutely that poverty is a cause of breakdown, but I also accept that strong many of the points we have heard repeated by less families are a bulwark against poverty. elevated hon. Members this afternoon. Let us look at We should use every tool in the box to try to strengthen the response the article received from the public; they family life for everyone, whatever relationship they are are not Guardianistas, but people reading the Daily in at the moment. We need to care deeply about the Mail: 38% of constituents of the hon. Member for Plymouth, “No…I do not want my taxes going to ‘stay at home’ (eg Moor View (Alison Seabeck). I want to strengthen gym/lunch/shopping) women. I want them to go to help vulnerable, family life for everyone. Some of the relationship support disadvantaged people, not the ‘I’ll park my 4x4 on the pavement money that the Government have put forward will be even if it inconveniences other people’ bunch. Bad idea.” for her constituents. The work we are doing on the Another comment reads: family stability review will be for her constituents. I “This is ridiculous. Surely tax should be calculated on household wish these debates did not become quite so heated, income rather than basing this on a wife staying at home…some because I can assure her that Government Members people are carers for the elderly, some are in full time education - who support this measure are for everyone—we are for just focusing on stay-at-home mums is very unfair.” all her constituents as well. We will defend the measures Then there is this: for everyone in the tax and benefit system—child benefit “Thanks to this government telling us what we must believe and child tax credits—because we recognise the important and what we must not believe…This whole article is politically part that marriage plays in family stability. I do not and socially incorrect and out of date.” want Opposition Members to think that this is a divisive policy. We are bringing this forward as part of a suite of I do not think that this proposal will deliver the political measures to try to do deal with an epidemic of family benefits that Government Members are hoping for. It breakdown in this country and because we want to do certainly will not deliver the social and economic benefit. something to promote family stability. When I was first elected to this House, I sat on the As we look at other countries, we see that this is not Finance Bill Public Bill Committee with the Exchequer an outlandish or an unusual thing to do. In fact, the UK Secretary, the hon. Member for South West Hertfordshire is the odd country out in the OECD. Across OECD (Mr Gauke). Throughout the Committee’s proceedings countries, Mexico is the only other large economy not he told us, on many issues, what Mrs Gauke thought. I to have any recognition of marriage in the tax and hope we will hear what Mrs Gauke thinks this afternoon. benefit system. We have tax benefits for all sorts of policies. We have tax benefits for Christmas parties. Just Andrew Selous: I speak as the chair of the all-party because we favour a firm providing for Christmas parties group on strengthening couple relationships. Family does not mean that we are against Muslims, Sikhs or stability lies at the heart of this debate, and I was Hindus who might not choose to celebrate. It is just pleased to hear the hon. Member for Newcastle upon something we recognise. We have tax policies that support Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) say that she is a people parking their bicycles at work. Just because we supporter of marriage. favour people bicycling to work does not mean that we are against people who come to work in cars or scooters, This proposal is one of a range Government policies. or who walk, or take the train or the bus. We need to get The Government have put £30 million into strengthening out of the mentality that, because we are introducing a relationship support. For the first time ever, the Department tax break for an institution we know is good for family for Work and Pensions is conducting a family stability stability, we are being in any way divisive. review. The good news is that family stability is increasing and strengthening, by a bit in the most recent figures. The scariest statistic in this whole area is that by the Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): The time children born today are 15, roughly half will see hon. Gentleman talks about family breakdown. Has he their parents separate. That saddens me hugely. My own made an estimate of how many families will break parents divorced and I am very much less than a perfect down because of the bedroom tax, which is an awful husband myself—none of us is perfect. We all bring our policy? Could this money be used to scrap it? baggage and personal experiences to these issues, so I understand the emotion on both sides of the House. We Andrew Selous: There is relatively good news on the need to speak with care and moderation. When I look under-occupancy penalty. More families have been able at the pain experienced by the children of friends of to move, with nearly 200,000 one and two-bedroom mine who are going through divorce, there is something properties available for families to move into. I have that makes me want to try to do everything possible to seen families who are better off because they are paying increase family stability and reduce family breakdown. lower rent and lower heating bills, or are nearer a bus I will not regale hon. Members with many figures, stop or a sick or disabled relative. We must remember but I will mention the UK’s biggest household study, the 1.7 million people on social housing waiting lists “Understanding Society, the UK household longitudinal and the 300,000 people who are very overcrowded. study” by the university of Essex. Most academics and The general point the hon. Gentleman makes is of researchers in this area respect it as one of the most course important. There are many stresses on families authoritative studies. It shows us that 93% of 13 to today. The Government are cognisant of that fact and 15-year-olds whose parents are still together are living are introducing a whole suite of policies—freezing council with parents who are married. I am not making that up tax and fuel duty, increasing the personal allowance and or making a judgment on anyone; I am merely presenting increasing in the minimum wage—to try to make life the House with the facts. There may be many reasons easier for people. The good news on jobs and growth for that, and I accept that there are cause and effect will also make things easier. We should not seek to 307 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 308 divide people. As has alrea been said today, we know Jim Shannon: As ever, the hon. Lady has made a very that over half of lone parents believe strongly that there sensible intervention. should be both a mother and a father involved in It is not the financial aspect of the clause that will be bringing up children. That is something we need to the convincing factor for those who wish to proceed remember as well. with it. Personally, I see it as a recognition of those who I strongly support what the Government are doing. are in a marital relationship, which is why I support it. The sum can always be increased when the public Marriage is unquestionably a source of great benefit to finances allow it—at present, the Chancellor is playing adults, to children and to our communities in general: with a limited amount of money—and we are returning as others have said, there are extensive research findings to a policy that was well supported until 2000 and is to demonstrate that. Given the shortage of time, I shall common among OECD countries. I ask Members to highlight just some of the benefits of marriage to adult focus on the widespread extent of family breakdown in health, on the basis of evidence and statistics. our country, and to see this as one important policy for increasing the family stability which we know is so As has already been said today, the health gain from important to children. marriage may be equal to the benefit of giving up smoking. Of special interest to me, given the challenges 3pm presented by our ageing population, is the fact that marriage significantly limits hospital use. Those living Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): In the past, both with a spouse are less likely than others to enter an here and in Westminster Hall, I have spoken frequently institution after the age of 60, because that person will about issues such as child poverty, food poverty, benefits be able to look after them and help them. In children, for single parents, social exclusion and other social growing up with married parents is associated with problems. On this occasion, I want to express my support, better physical health in adulthood and increased and that of my party, for the married couple’s transferable longevity. There is a direct link between family tax allowance. We gave a manifesto commitment to breakdown—particularly separation from a biological support it in our Parliament, and we are pleased to be parent—and future offending. I have not made those able to support it today as well. things up: they are facts, based on information that we I respect the opinions of Labour Members, and I do have received. not wish to be divisive. I want always to be respectful to Some Members have argued that marriage in itself is Members whose opinions may differ from mine. However, irrelevant, and that all the positive associations with it I have a hard-held opinion about this particular issue. I are driven by other factors, principally income. I must want to help everyone, but I think it is time that married say that I find that argument particularly unconvincing. couples had an opportunity to see some benefit from When one set of couples have thoughtfully embraced legislative change. Those who support the recognition the cost of making an exclusive, lifelong commitment of marriage in the tax system have waited a long time before the world, “forsaking all others, so help me for the Government to introduce this policy. I expected God”—a commitment that is sealed in law—and another it to be introduced a long time ago, in view of the Prime have just decided to move in together and see how it Minister’s enthusiasm for what was a headline manifesto goes, is it any wonder that the first set of couples are commitment, but I am very pleased that, at long last, it likely to be, on average, more stable? That is not a is being introduced now. reflection on those who cohabit, but it is a reflection of We have heard some excellent speeches from Members the statistics showing the commitment that we all make on both sides of the House. I particularly commend the in a marital relationship. way in which the hon. Members for East Worthing and Moreover, as others have noted, the Millennium Cohort Shoreham (Tim Loughton) and for Peterborough Study has blown out of the water the idea that it all (Mr Jackson) set the scene. I recall a debate in the boils down to money. According to the study, the poorest House about two years ago to which the hon. Member 20% of married couples are more stable than all but the for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) and I contributed. That 20% richest cohabiting couples. Finance is clearly not was one of my early introductions to the cut and thrust the motivator. However, recognition of the marital of politics here. Most of the Members surrounding me relationship by the Government through the transferrable opposed what I was saying, but I held fast to my tax allowance strikes me as a constructive way forward. opinion, and I am very pleased to be able to express it again today. On 25 July this year, the hon. Members for Darlington (Jenny Chapman)—who has now left the Chamber—and Let me begin by highlighting some of the powerful for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) will enter the happy public policy benefits of marriage. I shall then explain union of marriage here in the House of Commons. Let why I consider clause 11 to be an appropriate public me take this opportunity to wish them well, as others policy response, albeit rather modest—I should have have already. It is good to know that marriage is alive liked to see more. and well in the House. Alison Seabeck: As always, the hon. Gentleman is My concern is not with trying to persuade people to talking a great deal of common sense. Marriage is marry, but the evidence suggests that people who want indeed something to which most people aspire. Let us to marry are not doing so because it is not an accessible be honest: it is a great institution. However—I think he option. As the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions was starting to make this point just now—the Bill is said in his marriage week speech in 2011, neither one thing nor another. It does not really achieve “When asked about their aspirations, young people are very what most Government Members want, and it certainly clear: three quarters of those under 35 who are currently in does not deal with the concerns of Opposition Members. cohabiting relationships want to get married, and some 90% of I should welcome his views on that. young people aspire to marriage”. 309 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 310

[Jim Shannon] In this context is it any wonder that rather than opting for marriage, couples are opting for other Those are very clear statistics. The Secretary of State arrangements? Clause 11 will begin to put this right, but continued: this is only a very limited, partially transferable allowance “So perhaps the question we should be asking ourselves is this: that far from creating a level playing field, let alone a if people from the youngest age aspire to make such a commitment little nudge to opt for marriage, will instead only erode in their lives, what stops them doing so? the incentive not to marry. Clause 11 is thus a hugely Government cannot and should not try to lecture people or important first step; it is a foundation upon which we push them on this matter, but it is quite legitimate to ensure must build. people have the opportunity to achieve their aspirations.” On 10 April 2010, when announcing the detail of the Conservative transferable allowance policy, which was Ian Swales: The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful then worth 11.6% of the personal allowance, the Prime speech, and I think that we have a unanimous view Minister was clearly bothered that the package was not about the importance of marriage. Does he feel that the more generous. He indicated his wish to see more and, Government are communicating the details of the policy speaking on “Sky News”, he blamed the current fiscal clearly enough for the young people about whom he is constraints and said: talking to understand whether it affects them or not? “Of course I want to go further and I am sure that over a Many of them—for example, couples earning the minimum Parliament we would be able to go further but this is a good first wage—will not be affected by it. step.” I believe this is a good first step. I am on record in my Jim Shannon: I cannot comment on the technical constituency of asking for this. I have done articles for figures—no doubt the Minister will say something about my provincial press, supporting this option of the married them when he sums up the debate—but I understand transferable allowance. I believe today we have a chance the point that the hon. Gentleman has made. The to move towards that, and I hope this House will decide Government clearly have much to do. Indeed, we all very positively and clearly on this. have much to do in putting forward our views, but let us It is clear that all we are going to get in this Parliament hope that those who have an opportunity to enter into a is a 10% transferable allowance. Many people will be marital relationship will be able to benefit financially as watching to see the Prime Minister make good his well. commitment to go further in the next Parliament. Perhaps Although 90% of young people aspire to marry, the Minister can confirm in his response in what ways marriage rates are at an all-time low, while cohabitation the Government are committed to doing more in the rates are rising. The reason why that matters can be next parliamentary term to introduce a fully transferable expressed in many ways, but I shall do so by employing allowance. That must be the No. 1 income tax priority language that the Treasury understands. The cost of for the next Parliament. family breakdown has risen to some £44 billion per annum, and crucially, according to the Centre for Social Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): I Justice, of every £7 spent on family breakdown amongst very much welcome clause 11 and not the amendment young families, £1 is spent on divorce, £4 is spent on in the name of the Opposition. unmarried dual-registered parents who separate, and Before coming here I had an interview with children £2 is spent on sole registered parents. who are taking part in the BBC “Newsround”consideration of Prime Minister’s questions. I did not have an opportunity In this context it is absolutely imperative that the to ask them about the transferable allowance, but as state does not place any unnecessary obstacles in the they grow into adulthood I suspect they will look back way of those who wish to marry, yet that is exactly what on the proceedings here and think it rather odd that we we do on many occasions. Since 2000 we have had a tax are trying to put down dividing lines and divide along system that is very much in the minority internationally, party lines on the basic issue of marriage being recognised as the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) in the tax system. They will think it rather odd that said. Just over a fifth of people in the OECD area live in people are trying to pit one family relationship against countries that do not recognise marriage or have some another, when this is a very simple and moderate measure kind of couple allowance. The vast majority of those that is recognised across the world. people live in just two countries: the UK and Mexico. Research by Pearson and Binder published by the public policy charity CARE demonstrates that in this 3.15 pm context the tax burden on a one-earner married couple Those children will think it extraordinary that we with two children on average wage has been consistently have not previously corrected the situation and gone much higher in this country than across the OECD on back to how things were. Historically—up until 2000— average. In 2012, the latest year for which there are marriage was recognised and all we are doing is correcting comparable data, the tax burden on a UK one-earner an anomaly created by the Labour Government. Those married couple on average wage was 45% greater than children will think our position extraordinary, given the OECD average, up from 42% in 2011. Moreover this that only 20% of people in OECD countries live in a burden was a staggering 80.4% of that placed on a nation that does not recognise marriage or the couple single person on the same wage while the comparable relationship in any way in the tax system, and they will OECD figure was just 55%. Figures sometimes blind us say, “Why aren’t we going along”—as we thankfully to the issues, but these figures illustrate the issue of will be—“with Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, fairness and balance and show what the Government the Czech Republic, Denmark, Iceland, Italy, Japan, are trying to achieve through the legislative change Korea, the Netherlands, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, Estonia, before us. France, Germany, Ireland, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, 311 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 312

Portugal, Switzerland and the United States? Why have and others. Indeed, when a married tax allowance measure we for so long—since 2000—not been recognising marriage was moved by, I think, my hon. Friend the Member for in the tax system?” The people living in those countries, Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) during the passage seeing that marriage is recognised in the tax system, are of a previous Finance Bill, some souls—perhaps errant not saying to themselves, “How dare you Governments souls—on the Labour Benches supported it. recognise marriage! You’re discriminating against me I make a call across the Benches: this issue should not because I am not in a married relationship.” They are divide us along party lines. I say, “Come on; show us just saying it is common sense, because they look at the where your money is. Do you support marriage?” Then, evidence of international research and recognise the we will know by the end of today who is on the side of basic well-being for children that comes from being in marriage. families supported by marriage. Not everyone is going to be married but everyone— Catherine McKinnell: We have said very clearly that, whether married or not—can recognise, as I think we rather than giving this tax break to only a third of do across this House, that marriage is an important married couples—some hon. Members say they are in institution. Why do we not simply recognise it in the tax favour of marriage, but only certain types, where one code? partner in the marriage stays at home—we would put As the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen that money towards all married couples and, indeed, all Goodman) mentioned, certainly, we can support marriage taxpayers by reinstating the 10p tax rate, which would in lots of other ways. If we are on the side of marriage, benefit all marriages and all children in those households we are going to have to do more than simply recognise it too. in the tax system. That is not a magic wand that will simply transform the issue of family breakdown, which Mr Burrowes: I hear what the hon. Lady says, but I we are all concerned about and have seen in our am afraid that will not wash with the electorate. The constituencies. We need to do much more, such as by reality is that the Labour Government abolished investing in marriage support before, when and after recognising marriage in the tax system, and Labour people get married. Sadly, sometimes people who have now needs to make up that lost ground and join the been married for 20 or 30 years or more consider ending mainstream in the other OECD countries and across their marriage. We need to do more to support people the world. The Opposition need to recognise that people throughout marriage. We are not under any illusions support marriage. here, but we must not try to put in place any false dividing lines. Alison Seabeck: The hon. Gentleman is robustly sticking If we look at the OECD averages, we have to to his guns. All young people aspire to marriage. I recognise that we are out of kilter. In this country we aspired to marriage when I was 17, and I thought that are generous to single parents but not to married couples. my marriage was going to last for ever, because that is This is not about creating a level playing field; it is what everyone hopes. Does the hon. Gentleman accept, simply about starting a process that other countries however, that this tax change will not deal with the fact started many years ago and ensuring we get back into that people whose marriages break up after, say, five the mainstream. years will lose the tax break at that point? How is that Clause 11 is not about judging different relationships. fair, when they are still bringing up their children? The Opposition seek to pit married couples against single parents, and suggest that if we are for something, Mr Burrowes: As I said, we need to look at ways of we must be against something else. That is not the case. supporting such couples to stay together, not least for We are simply saying, in a very moderate and measured the sake of their children. Too many children see their way, what we are for. We are not saying we are against parents breaking up. We need to look at the evidence in something, because we are not against other couples support of marriage, because these decisions need to be who conduct their relationships differently. They have based on evidence rather than on moral judgments. We freedom to choose, but this is clearly showing who is on have heard statistics relating to adults’ and children’s the side of marriage. health and well-being, which I will not repeat. Members have talked about public health benefits, and mention The Opposition may say, “No, no—we support marriage has been made of smoking and other issues. Leading and we recognise the institution of marriage,” as the research has stated: Opposition spokesperson said, but at the end of the day we have to put our money where our mouth is. We know “If marriage were a drug it would be hailed as a miracle cure.” we have a division in respect of clause 11 and amendment 3 Why are the Opposition so keen to avoid a basic and the question is, “What are you putting your money measure to recognise marriage in the tax system? Members on?” The Opposition are not putting their money on the should not take my word for all this. Let us go across side of marriage. the Atlantic and hear what Barack Obama wrote in The reality is it does not matter what I think. It “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the matters what our constituents think. We have heard a American Dream”: few anecdotal comments such as, “My constituent thinks “Many single moms—including the one who raised me—do a this” or “My constituent thinks that”, but survey after heroic job on behalf of their kids. Still, children living with single survey shows that young people in particular, in their mothers are five times more likely to be poor than children in two-parent households. Children in single-parent homes are also droves, aspire to marriage. If they have a look at these more likely to drop out of school and become teen parents, even proceedings and see who has voted for and against, they when income is factored out. And the evidence suggests that on will see where people have put their money and who is average, children who live with both their biological mother and on the side of marriage, and they will know for sure the father do better than those who live in stepfamilies or with position of the Conservatives, the Democratic Unionists cohabiting partners.” 313 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 314

[Mr Burrowes] The whole point is that when one person in a married couple—usually the woman—stays at home to look We have heard statistics to back that up today. Barack after the children, they are uniquely disadvantaged by Obama went on to say: the benefits system. This is simply a question of justice; “In light of these facts, policies that strengthen marriage for we are righting an injustice in the benefits system. those who choose it…are sensible goals to pursue. For example, most people agree that neither federal welfare programs not the Mr Burrowes: My hon. Friend is quite right. We are tax code should penalise married couples.” simply talking about justice. The Government need to He did not want to go against the Bush tax plan, and he take a lead in this area. The culture can change in many recognised that it contained aspects of the Clinton ways, but one way we can take a lead is through the welfare policies, but he wanted to ensure that proposals introduction of a small financial instrument to recognise to reduce the marriage penalty would enjoy strong marriage in the tax system. That is what we are doing bipartisan support. It is a shame, given the bipartisan today, and it will help to bring about a change of support for recognising marriage in the tax code across character across the whole country. the Atlantic, that no such support exists here. We should learn the lessons and take a leaf out of the book of Sheila Gilmore: For many poorer couples who are Barack Obama. living together, whether they are married or not, the I mentioned that the children who were interviewed benefits system does indeed have a couples penalty. earlier for BBC “Newsround” would have been confused Would the hon. Gentleman be interested in campaigning as to why anyone would disagree with this basic measure. to end that? Let us look at the recent history, since 2000, when marriage was not recognised in the tax system. We have Mr Burrowes: If the hon. Lady looks at the Conservative heard many of the reasons behind the brokenness of party manifesto, she will see in it a recognition of the Britain under Labour. One was the lack of recognition couples penalty. Sadly, there was no money left by the of the importance of marriage, not so much culturally previous Government, but we want to do a great deal to as financially. That has certainly played a part, which is correct that legacy of injustice that they left us. The why there is a commitment at the heart of Conservative couples penalty is one example among many. The policy to reverse the 15 mistaken years of a system that discrimination is increasingly happening among couples did not recognise marriage. with children, and the transferrable allowance will at least start to right those wrongs. One of the criticisms of transferable allowances for married couples is that they amount to giving a few I am keen to give the House the opinions of others as privileged people a bribe to get married. It has been well as my own. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has suggested that we are being discriminatory, but where is clearly demonstrated that the transferrable allowance is the discrimination in the tax system? According to the progressive, so I invite all those who support progressive Institute for Fiscal Studies, the couple penalty facing policies to join us in the Lobby when we vote on this those considering whether to marry is significant, at measure. It was suggested earlier that we are taking a £44.70 a week, rising to over £85 per week for couples partial view in relation to the IFS, but I understand that with children under 16. It is that group who have been about 70% of the benefit will go to those in the lower discriminated against for many years. Our limited but half of the income distribution. I am not sure whether important transferable allowance provision will begin anyone has yet corrected the comments from the IFS. to erode the discrimination and create a level playing Anyone who is concerned about family responsibilities field for those couples. Far from creating any kind of should also recognise that this measure does something privilege, it will simply remedy an injustice that has that has not been done for 15 years—namely, recognising been going on for 15 years in refusing to recognise the family responsibilities in the tax system. huge policy benefits of recognising marriage in the tax This is an issue of trust, certainly for the Conservatives, code. who put this measure in their manifesto and who want We have heard that marriage is popular, but it is not to retain the trust of the electorate. This is a vital first popular only with a privileged minority. It is an aspiration step, albeit moderate, towards fulfilling that manifesto that goes across social cohorts, and particularly among commitment. We will also seek to give further recognition young people, 90% of whom aspire to marriage. Many to marriage in an increased transferrable allowance. We of those people do not take up the opportunity to are fulfilling our vow to the electorate, however. At the marry, however, and we need to look at the reasons for election, people will look back at this debate and see that. The transferrable allowance will not mean that all that the Opposition were not supporting marriage. The those people will suddenly get married. They will have electorate will remember that. I urge all Members to to find an appropriate partner, for a start, and their support marriage. marriage will of course be based primarily on love and being well-matched. The bottom line is an issue of 3.30 pm social justice, however. Why are there particular barriers to marriage among poorer communities? People in those Dr Thérèse Coffey: Let us consider the following communities have just the same aspiration to marry, but words: fewer of them do so. We have to recognise that financial “I believe in marriage, I believe marriage should be recognised and cultural barriers are involved. in the tax system. I see this as yes, a start of something I would like to extend further”. They are not mine; I plagiarised them from my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. I Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): No am surprised that the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland transferrable allowance will make anyone get married (Helen Goodman), who is no longer in her place, was or stay married, or even encourage them to get married. trying to suggest that the Prime Minister did not support 315 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 316 this policy, because it was certainly in our manifesto for families across the country, using the long-term and he is the person who said that from the Front economic plan. It has meant that gilt rates have been Bench. able to stay relatively low, which means that mortgage I am not married. Do I feel disadvantaged, as a rates have stayed low and that is probably doing more consequence, that I will not benefit from this transferable for people than anything else, along with our fuel duty tax allowance? No, I certainly do not. I will have a freezes and indeed cuts in previous Budgets. Those warm heart voting for clause 11 to stand part of the kinds of things are helping families, be they married Bill, because I believe that marriage is an important or not. institution at the heart of a strong society, as the I appreciate that time is short and others are waiting Government are indicating, and it has been clear for to speak, Mr Caton. I just wish firmly to say that some time that we wanted to bring forward proposals to although I am a singleton—I thought I had met Mr Right recognise marriage in the tax system. We have been 20 years ago, but it did not work out—I hope that every hearing about how, “You can only spend the money married couple benefiting from this will recognise that once”, but the Opposition have managed to spend their at least they can go and have a nice wedding anniversary version of the bankers’ bonus tax about 11 times. So it is with a little bit more cash from the Government. a bit extraordinary to hear some of these comments. As has been said, this is about choices. The choices this Government made in this Budget were to reduce income Sheila Gilmore: We hear so much in this House about inequality to its lowest level in 28 years, whether through how little money there is and how hard it is, yet certain council tax cuts, or through freezing or cutting fuel members of the Government support this measure. It duty, as we have done in previous Budgets. This Government appears that not all do—the Lib Dem part of the are certainly helping families of all models in this coalition may or may not support it; it said it did not Budget. previously. We are talking about only a small amount of We debated child care yesterday, and it is right that money, but let us see what it is equivalent to. Many we start supporting marriage. Some are saying, “Oh, people in this country have been outraged by the 4 million married couples. You are not helping people.” Government’s bedroom tax. Even if that makes the But of course we are helping 8 million people as a result savings the Government claim it will, which I doubt, it of this measure, and that is to be welcomed. My hon. will save less than the amount this measure will pay out. Friends will note that the Labour party is committed to That is the problem: the Government say that the issue reversing this tax transfer. It will come in before the that has to be addressed all the time is saving money, election, so Labour is automatically saying to 8 million but clearly when it comes to some things saving money people, “We will be putting up your taxes because of is not quite so important. There are priorities, and the our dogma.” Government have chosen to make this policy one of them. I appreciate that the Front Benchers still need to speak in this debate, Mr Caton. What I want to put I believe we should be giving particular help to families across strongly is that there is no arbitrary disadvantage, with children, and not just to couples because they marriage is a good thing and we should support it. We happen to be married. Apart from in respect of the very do the same for people who save, by increasing the poorest, I have not noticed any great appetite to do individual savings account limit. We do it for people away with the couple penalty that probably does apply who put into pensions, whom we support with tax relief. in terms of people in the benefits system. But if two We do it for businesses that invest in their businesses, people choose to marry, we have an independent taxation helping to create jobs. That is what we are doing and system here and they can choose to work or not work, although only a token amount of money is involved so I do not see where any great penalty is being applied here, it will be very welcome. to marriage. For those who have children the situation may be different. Catherine McKinnell: Will the hon. Lady give way? If the Government wanted specifically to help parents Dr Coffey: I was about to sit down, but I would be who are staying at home with children, perhaps that it is delighted to give way. what they should have done. This measure does not do that; it helps couples where one person is not working, Catherine McKinnell: The hon. Lady is making a but it has no relationship with the needs of any children powerful speech in favour of marriage, but does she not they may be raising. If our main aim is to help people accept that the Government proposal does not recognise with children and make sure that children are brought two thirds of marriages? Where both partners in the up in stable relationships, I cannot see what this measure marriage are working to provide for their family, that has to do with that. The reason many relationships marriage is not recognised as valid in terms of this break down, whether or not they are marriages, has to policy. do with financial insecurity and the difficulties that causes. Those struggling through a cost of living crisis Dr Coffey: I do not see that that is the case. Of course and those who have lost out because of many of this the Government recognise those couples who are married Government’s policies particularly include the low paid. or who are in civil partnerships— We can all pick and mix our experts—some hon. Members have cited views of the Institute for Fiscal Studies—but Catherine McKinnell: They do not. if we really want to help low-paid people, we must examine things such as the proposed tapering for universal Dr Coffey: They certainly do. This measure is a start. credit. We need to examine the structure in place for We do not have tons of money, and the fact that working people who will be in receipt of universal resources are scarce has been well pointed out. Nevertheless, credit—the replacement for tax credits. Under the current we are doing things that reduce the income inequality structure there is a serious lack of support for second 317 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 318

[Sheila Gilmore] I agree that policy must be based on evidence, and the evidence is absolutely clear. Regardless of socio-economic earners in the family who want to start building up their status and education, co-habiting couples are between earnings. We could be looking at such things, including two and two and half times more likely to break up child care help for low-paid families. than equivalent married couples. The poorest 20% of Very briefly, let me tackle something that was mentioned married couples are more stable than all but the richest by the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson). 20% of cohabiting couples. The 2004 Blanchflower and He did not take my intervention, so I will deal with it Oswald study in the US and UK shows that the effect of now, and, as he raised the matter, it must be relevant to marriage on mental well-being is estimated to be equal this debate. One statement that Government Members to that of an extra $100,000. are always keen to make is that every Labour Government A 10-year study of British households found that the leave office with unemployment higher than when they health gain from marriage may be as much as the arrived, but it is not true. In 1946 unemployment was benefit from giving up smoking. The Centre for Social 2%, and in 1951 it was 1.3%. In 1951, at the beginning Justice found that those not growing up in a two-parent of the Tory Government, unemployment was 1.3%, and family were 75% more likely to fail at school, 70% more in 1964 it was 1.7%, so it went up under a Tory Government. likely to become addicted to drugs and 50% more likely Between 1979 and 1997, which was again a Conservative to have an alcohol problem. We should pay tribute to Government, unemployment went up from 5.2% at the the Prime Minister, the leader of the Conservative beginning to 7.4% at the end, but for 13 of those party, for constantly expressing his support for the 18 years, unemployment was above 10%. Therefore, the institution of marriage. statement is not true, and it also completely distorts the Marriage is even a predictor of survival rates in appalling unemployment record of the Government patients with lung cancer, according to The Independent between 1979 and 1997. I will now sit down and allow newspaper. The transferable tax allowance will be in others to speak. line with international best practice. This is not some The Temporary Chair: (Martin Caton): Order. I wish way-out wacky idea from the Christian right, but what to call the Minister by 3.45 pm at the latest, so I ask the most countries do. Of the biggest countries in the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) to OECD, it is only the UK, Mexico and Turkey that do ensure that he has sat down by then. not have a transferable allowance. It is only 24% of the population of all the OECD countries that are not Sir Edward Leigh: I am grateful, Mr Caton. I apologise benefiting from this transferable allowance for married for not being here at the beginning of the debate, but I couples. It is a common idea that is widely accepted all was at the Council of Europe. I wanted to come back over the world. It works; it is normal; it is good. here to speak on this measure especially, because I have The UK is one of the only countries in the OECD campaigned for it for many years. This is a very proud not to recognise marriage in the tax system. The comparison moment for our party. We are fulfilling an election between the United Kingdom and the OECD average is manifesto, and I am delighted that at last it will happen. telling. The tax burden on the single earner married I have no doubt that the party will unite today at couple with two children on the average wage in the 4 o’clock to vote through the measure. United Kingdom has increased from being 33% greater There is no doubt that marriage is the fundamental than the OECD average to now being 42% greater. institution of society. It is the one that contributes the Clearly, the problem is growing. Introducing a transferable most to the cohesiveness and sustainability of society, allowance for married couples will disproportionately and I do not think that anyone disagrees with that. But benefit poorer families and those in the lower half of for too many families, the tax system simply punishes income distribution. I am proud of what we are doing marriage. Why do we have a tax system that does that? and I am proud that at last, this afternoon, we are It should facilitate marriage. The system has led to recognising marriage in the tax system. numerous social problems that, aside from the obvious human cost, create an undue financial burden on the 3.45 pm state. Ultimately, if we promote marriage and support it in the financial system, the state saves money, and we The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David create a happier society. Creating a transferable allowance Gauke): It is a great pleasure to respond to the debate. I will strengthen the institution of marriage—that may shall make some remarks on clause 11 and on amendment 3 be only a message, but it is a strong one. It will provide and address some of the arguments that we have heard benefits for adults, children and society as a whole. in this interesting and passionate debate on a subject in I am afraid that marriage rates are at an all-time low. which many right hon. and hon. Members have taken a The scale of family breakdown as a social problem is long-standing interest. increasing all the time. It is estimated that it has cost us Clause 11 introduces a transferable tax allowance for between £24 billion and £41 billion to deal with it every married couples and civil partners. We have targeted the single year. benefit of the measure on married couples and civil The absence of a transferable allowance obviously partners with the lowest incomes, when one member of makes marriage less attractive to prospective husbands the couple has an income below their personal allowance and wives and more costly than it should be for some of £10,500. The clause allows individuals to transfer people. However, that is not the main point. The main 10% of their income tax personal allowance to their point is that we are creating a powerful message that spouse or civil partner, providing that neither partner is marriage works and it is good for children. As I said in liable for income tax above the basic rate. For the year an earlier intervention, a married couple where one 2015-16, when the measure comes into effect, the amount partner stays at home is uniquely disadvantaged by the of personal allowance that can be transferred will be tax system. That cannot be fair. £1,050, significantly higher than the £750 included in 319 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 320 the Conservative party manifesto at the last general non-earner. That will help just over 4 million married election. It is also higher than the £1,000 allowance couples and civil partnerships, with each couple gaining announced at the autumn statement as a result of the up to £210 a year. Budget announcement that the personal allowance would Amendment 3, which was tabled by the Opposition, be increased even further in 2015-16. That means that commits the Government to publishing a report on the more people will now be able to gain from the measure impacts of the policy within six months of the Finance and by a higher amount. Bill receiving Royal Assent. I do not believe that such a report is necessary, as there are comprehensive arrangements Let me remind the Committee of the purpose of the to report on the impacts of Government policy. First, policy. Marriage is an important institution in this we have reported the impacts of the clause in the tax country and I have been struck by the contributions information and impact note, which was published on from both sides recognising that point. The hon. Member the Government website on 27 March. Secondly, as the for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) Committee will know, the Government believe that the described marriage as a force for good. We have also impacts of policies should be considered in the round. recently had a debate about marriage in the context of The Government regularly produce an analysis of the single-sex relationships and, indeed, the first gay and cumulative impact of changes on households across the lesbian marriages took place just over a week ago. In whole income distribution. That analysis is published that debate, a variety of views were expressed but it was by the Treasury at every major fiscal event, and the striking how those on both sides of the argument analysis at autumn statement ’13 and at Budget ’14 will recognised the importance of marriage. Indeed, the have included that policy. Thirdly, it is worth pointing hon. Lady made a powerful and persuasive speech on out that the amendment requires a report on the impacts that very issue in the course of those debates. Whether of the policy within six months of Royal Assent, but the or not one agrees with the decision that the House policy will not be in effect then, so we will not have any reached, the strength of views expressed in those debates additional information or data to analyse. For that makes it clear that people believe in the importance of reason alone, I hope that the Opposition will not press marriage as a building block of our society. The policy their amendment. we are debating today is about recognising it in the tax system. Let me deal in a little more detail with what the amendment would do. It requires a calculation of the That recognition in itself is not a new idea. People proportion of married couples and civil partners eligible born before 6 April 1935 can still claim the income tax under the policy. We have said that we expect just over married couple’s allowance, which the previous Government 4 million couples to benefit, which means that about abolished for everyone else from 2000, and marriage is 300,000 more couples are in a position to benefit than if already recognised in the tax system in inheritance tax we had just increased the personal allowance in line and capital gains tax. I shall come back to inheritance with the retail prices index, which was the approach tax a little later. Marriage is also recognised in the taken by the previous Government. The 4 million couples income tax system in most other developed countries, a who will benefit represent just over a third of married point that has been made repeatedly this afternoon. In couples. The heart of the Opposition’s case seemed to fact, the United Kingdom is the only G7 country not to be that two thirds of married couples will not gain from recognise marriage in the income tax system in some the policy, so what was the point of it? It is worth form. Now we want to recognise it more widely in the explaining how the policy is targeted. First, in 3 million UK income tax system. That formed part of the couples, one or both partners are higher or additional-rate Conservative manifesto in 2010 and I am pleased that taxpayers. Some of them can benefit from the changes we have now introduced legislation for that policy. to the personal allowance, but if we had a policy that extended the transferable tax allowance to higher and Let me remind the Committee that that is not the additional rate taxpayers, the Opposition would complain only reason for the policy. It also provides a way of that it was not well targeted and that it should be allowing lower income married couples and civil partners directed at low-earning households. I think that my to feel more of the benefit from our increases to the hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham personal allowance. As discussed in Committee yesterday, (Tim Loughton) made the point that the logic of the by 2015-16 our successive increases to the personal Opposition’s argument was that we should extend the allowance will mean that a typical basic rate taxpayer policy. I know that he takes that view, but it would be will be more than £570 better off than under the previous rather strange for the Opposition to make that argument. Government’s plans. That could mean a tax cut of more The second group that does not benefit is the 1.8 couples than £1,000 for a couple, but that is the case only if both in which both partners are non-taxpayers. It is worth partners use all of their personal allowance. If one pointing out that since 2010 about 350,000 couples have spouse is a low or non-earner, the couple will be able to become non-taxpayers because we have taken them out benefit only from one personal allowance increase. Let of income tax. It is impossible to provide an income tax me give an example. By April 2015, one couple with cut for people who do not pay income tax. The Opposition each spouse earning £15,000 will see more than £800 more argue that what we should do instead is have a 10p rate benefit from the personal allowance increases this of income tax, but a 10p rate would not help those Parliament than a couple with one spouse earning married couples either. £30,000 and the second earning nothing. The policy allows us to change that. It gives married couples and Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): I have civil partners the opportunity to benefit from the £1,050 of a genuine question for the Minister. Has his Department the second unused personal allowance, and thus benefit looked at the question of whether the change would from the increases to the personal allowance, providing stand up to a challenge in the European courts on the further support to some households with a low or grounds that it is discriminatory? 321 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 322

Mr Gauke: There is no reason to believe that the Question put, That the amendment be made. measure is discriminatory. I will address that point in The Committee divided: Ayes 217, Noes 276. slightly more detail in a moment. Division No. 249] [3.59 pm The third category of people who will not benefit is couples where both members are basic rate taxpayers, AYES but those are the households that have benefited most from the very significant increases in the personal allowance Abbott, Ms Diane Efford, Clive that this Government have been able to deliver. One has Abrahams, Debbie Elliott, Julie to look at the overall package and what this Government Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Ellman, Mrs Louise have done in terms of cutting taxes. I come back to the Alexander, Heidi Engel, Natascha Ali, Rushanara Esterson, Bill point that couples with two earners have benefited Allen, Mr Graham Evans, Chris significantly, more so than couples with one earner, as a Ashworth, Jonathan Farrelly, Paul consequence of the personal allowance increase. Bailey, Mr Adrian Field, rh Mr Frank I mentioned that the Opposition want to use the Bain, Mr William Fitzpatrick, Jim money to fund a 10p rate of income tax. They have Balls, rh Ed Flello, Robert complained in the course of the debate that the benefit Barron, rh Kevin Flynn, Paul is worth only £3.85 a week. This is about sending a Bayley, Hugh Fovargue, Yvonne signal. The benefit from the new 10p rate, assuming that Begg, Dame Anne Gapes, Mike it were funded from this, would be in the region of 50p a Benn, rh Hilary Gardiner, Barry Berger, Luciana Gilmore, Sheila week, and I am not sure that that would change things Betts, Mr Clive Glass, Pat significantly. Blackman-Woods, Roberta Glindon, Mrs Mary Blenkinsop, Tom Godsiff, Mr Roger Helen Goodman rose— Blomfield, Paul Goodman, Helen Blunkett, rh Mr David Greatrex, Tom Mr Gauke: I am short of time so, if the hon. Lady Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Green, Kate will forgive me, I will not give way. Brennan, Kevin Greenwood, Lilian Let me deal with a couple more points. On support Brown, Lyn Hain, rh Mr Peter for women, it is worth bearing in mind that of the Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hamilton, Mr David Brown, Mr Russell Hanson, rh Mr David 3.2 million people who have been taken out of income Bryant, Chris Harman, rh Ms Harriet tax, 56% of the beneficiaries are women, and we have Buck, Ms Karen Healey, rh John done a lot to help with child care. On the practical Burden, Richard Hendrick, Mark points raised by the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Byrne, rh Mr Liam Heyes, David Tyne North, only the transferor will need to make an Campbell, rh Mr Alan Hillier, Meg election, which will make it administratively easier for Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hilling, Julie couples. We also want to implement the measure through Champion, Sarah Hodgson, Mrs Sharon a digital process, but we recognise the need for support Chapman, Jenny Hoey, Kate for those unable or unwilling to use that method. HMRC Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hopkins, Kelvin will be properly funded to deliver this policy. Clwyd, rh Ann Howarth, rh Mr George Coaker, Vernon Hunt, Tristram Let me conclude by reiterating the purpose of the Coffey, Ann Irranca-Davies, Huw clause. It is to reinforce the important institution which Connarty, Michael Jackson, Glenda is marriage—whether gay, straight or civil partnerships— Cooper, Rosie James, Mrs Siân C. while also providing support for many households that Cooper, rh Yvette Jamieson, Cathy have not been able to benefit fully from our changes to Corbyn, Jeremy Jarvis, Dan the personal allowance. I therefore request that Creagh, Mary Johnson, rh Alan amendment 3 be withdrawn, and move that clause 11 Creasy, Stella Johnson, Diana stand part of the Bill. Cruddas, Jon Jones, Graham Cunningham, Alex Jones, Helen Catherine McKinnell: We have had some sincere but Cunningham, Mr Jim Jones, Mr Kevan variously aspirational speeches from Government Members Curran, Margaret Jones, Susan Elan today, dreaming of a world where marriages are stable Dakin, Nic Kane, Mike Danczuk, Simon Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald and children thrive. Nobody can take issue with the David, Wayne Keeley, Barbara aspiration, but we need to deal with the real world and Davidson, Mr Ian Khan, rh Sadiq what the Government’s policy will deliver. It purports De Piero, Gloria Lammy, rh Mr David to support marriage, but only certain marriages will Denham, rh Mr John Lavery, Ian qualify. Two out of three marriages will get no recognition Dobson, rh Frank Lazarowicz, Mark at all. The policy purports to support children, but five Docherty, Thomas Leslie, Chris out of six families with children will get no help whatever. Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma It is a dud. It adds complexity to the tax system. Its Doran, Mr Frank Lewis, Mr Ivan implementation will add cost both for HMRC and for Doughty, Stephen Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn the employers who will have to deal with the complexity Dowd, Jim Love, Mr Andrew for highly questionable gain. Doyle, Gemma Lucas, Caroline Dromey, Jack Lucas, Ian We will therefore oppose the clause, and we urge hon. Dugher, Michael MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Members on both sides of the House, particularly Liberal Durkan, Mark Mahmood, Shabana Democrat Members, who we know are on our side of Eagle, Ms Angela Mann, John the argument on this issue, to vote against the Government’s Eagle, Maria Marsden, Mr Gordon proposals and for our sensible amendment. Edwards, Jonathan McCabe, Steve 323 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 324

McCann, Mr Michael Roy, Mr Frank Crouch, Tracey Hollobone, Mr Philip McCarthy, Kerry Roy, Lindsay Davies, David T. C. Holloway, Mr Adam McClymont, Gregg Ruane, Chris (Monmouth) Hopkins, Kris McDonagh, Siobhain Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Davies, Glyn Howarth, Sir Gerald McDonald, Andy Sawford, Andy Davies, Philip Howell, John McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Seabeck, Alison Davis, rh Mr David Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy McDonnell, John Sharma, Mr Virendra de Bois, Nick Hurd, Mr Nick McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sheerman, Mr Barry Dinenage, Caroline Jackson, Mr Stewart McGovern, Alison Shuker, Gavin Djanogly, Mr Jonathan James, Margot McGovern, Jim Skinner, Mr Dennis Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Javid, Sajid McKechin, Ann Slaughter, Mr Andy Dorries, Nadine Johnson, Gareth McKenzie, Mr Iain Smith, rh Mr Andrew Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Joseph McKinnell, Catherine Smith, Angela Drax, Richard Jones, Andrew Mearns, Ian Smith, Nick Duddridge, James Jones, rh Mr David Miller, Andrew Smith, Owen Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, Mr Marcus Mitchell, Austin Spellar, rh Mr John Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kawczynski, Daniel Moon, Mrs Madeleine Straw, rh Mr Jack Dunne, Mr Philip Kelly, Chris Morden, Jessica Stringer, Graham Ellis, Michael Kirby, Simon Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Stuart, Ms Gisela Ellison, Jane Knight, rh Sir Greg Morris, Grahame M. Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kwarteng, Kwasi (Easington) Tami, Mark Elphicke, Charlie Lancaster, Mark Munn, Meg Thomas, Mr Gareth Eustice, George Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Murphy, rh Mr Jim Thornberry, Emily Evans, Graham Latham, Pauline Murphy, rh Paul Timms, rh Stephen Evans, Jonathan Leadsom, Andrea Murray, Ian Turner, Karl Evennett, Mr David Lee, Jessica Nash, Pamela Twigg, Derek Fabricant, Michael Lee, Dr Phillip O’Donnell, Fiona Umunna, Mr Chuka Fallon, rh Michael Lefroy, Jeremy Onwurah, Chi Vaz, rh Keith Field, Mark Leigh, Sir Edward Owen, Albert Watson, Mr Tom Fox,rhDrLiam Leslie, Charlotte Perkins, Toby Weir, Mr Mike Francois, rh Mr Mark Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Phillipson, Bridget Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Freeman, George Lewis, Brandon Pound, Stephen Whitehead, Dr Alan Freer, Mike Lewis, Dr Julian Powell, Lucy Williams, Hywel Fullbrook, Lorraine Lidington, rh Mr David Qureshi, Yasmin Williamson, Chris Fuller, Richard Lilley, rh Mr Peter Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Winnick, Mr David Garnier, Sir Edward Lloyd, Stephen Reed, Mr Jamie Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Garnier, Mark Long, Naomi Reed, Mr Steve Wishart, Pete Gauke, Mr David Lopresti, Jack Reeves, Rachel Woodcock, John Gibb, Mr Nick Loughton, Tim Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Luff, Sir Peter Reynolds, Emma Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Reynolds, Jonathan Glen, John Lumley, Karen Wright, David Riordan, Mrs Linda Goldsmith, Zac Macleod, Mary Wright, Mr Iain Ritchie, Ms Margaret Goodwill, Mr Robert Maynard, Paul Robertson, Angus Tellers for the Ayes: Gove, rh Michael McCartney, Jason Robertson, John Phil Wilson and Graham, Richard McCartney, Karl Rotheram, Steve Seema Malhotra Grant, Mrs Helen McIntosh, Miss Anne Gray, Mr James McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick NOES Grayling, rh Chris McPartland, Stephen Green, rh Damian McVey, rh Esther Adams, Nigel Brazier, Mr Julian Greening, rh Justine Menzies, Mark Afriyie, Adam Bridgen, Andrew Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Mercer, Patrick Aldous, Peter Brine, Steve Griffiths, Andrew Metcalfe, Stephen Andrew, Stuart Brokenshire, James Gummer, Ben Mills, Nigel Bacon, Mr Richard Bruce, Fiona Gyimah, Mr Sam Milton, Anne Baker, Steve Buckland, Mr Robert Hague, rh Mr William Mordaunt, Penny Baldry, rh Sir Tony Burley, Mr Aidan Halfon, Robert Morgan, Nicky Barclay, Stephen Burns, rh Mr Simon Hammond, Stephen Morris, Anne Marie Baron, Mr John Burrowes, Mr David Hancock, Matthew Morris, James Barwell, Gavin Burt, rh Alistair Hands, rh Greg Mosley, Stephen Bebb, Guto Byles, Dan Harper, Mr Mark Mowat, David Bellingham, Mr Henry Cairns, Alun Harrington, Richard Mundell, rh David Benyon, Richard Cameron, rh Mr David Harris, Rebecca Murray, Sheryll Beresford, Sir Paul Carmichael, Neil Hart, Simon Murrison, Dr Andrew Berry, Jake Carswell, Mr Douglas Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Neill, Robert Bingham, Andrew Cash, Mr William Hayes, rh Mr John Newmark, Mr Brooks Blackman, Bob Chishti, Rehman Heald, Oliver Nokes, Caroline Blackwood, Nicola Clark, rh Greg Heaton-Harris, Chris Norman, Jesse Blunt, Crispin Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Henderson, Gordon Nuttall, Mr David Boles, Nick Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hendry, Charles O’Brien, rh Mr Stephen Bottomley, Sir Peter Collins, Damian Herbert, rh Nick Offord, Dr Matthew Bradley, Karen Colvile, Oliver Hermon, Lady Ollerenshaw, Eric Brady, Mr Graham Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hinds, Damian Opperman, Guy Bray, Angie Crabb, Stephen Hoban, Mr Mark Ottaway, rh Sir Richard 325 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 326

Paice, rh Sir James Stanley, rh Sir John Brady, Mr Graham Grant, Mrs Helen Paisley, Ian Stevenson, John Bray, Angie Gray, Mr James Parish, Neil Stewart, Bob Brazier, Mr Julian Grayling, rh Chris Patel, Priti Stewart, Iain Bridgen, Andrew Green, rh Damian Paterson, rh Mr Owen Stride, Mel Brine, Steve Greening, rh Justine Pawsey, Mark Stuart, Mr Graham Brokenshire, James Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Penning, rh Mike Sturdy, Julian Bruce, Fiona Griffiths, Andrew Penrose, John Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Buckland, Mr Robert Gummer, Ben Phillips, Stephen Swire, rh Mr Hugo Burley, Mr Aidan Gyimah, Mr Sam Pickles, rh Mr Eric Syms, Mr Robert Burns, rh Mr Simon Hague, rh Mr William Pincher, Christopher Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Burrowes, Mr David Halfon, Robert Poulter, Dr Daniel Timpson, Mr Edward Burt, rh Alistair Hammond, Stephen Prisk, Mr Mark Tomlinson, Justin Byles, Dan Hancock, Matthew Pritchard, Mark Tredinnick, David Cairns, Alun Hands, rh Greg Raab, Mr Dominic Truss, Elizabeth Cameron, rh Mr David Harper, Mr Mark Randall, rh Sir John Turner, Mr Andrew Carmichael, Neil Harrington, Richard Reckless, Mark Tyrie, Mr Andrew Carswell, Mr Douglas Harris, Rebecca Cash, Mr William Hart, Simon Redwood, rh Mr John Uppal, Paul Rees-Mogg, Jacob Chishti, Rehman Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Vaizey, Mr Edward Reevell, Simon Clark, rh Greg Hayes, rh Mr John Vara, Mr Shailesh Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Heald, Oliver Vickers, Martin Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Coffey, Dr Thérèse Heaton-Harris, Chris Walker, Mr Charles Robertson, rh Hugh Collins, Damian Henderson, Gordon Robertson, Mr Laurence Walker, Mr Robin Colvile, Oliver Hendry, Charles Rosindell, Andrew Wallace, Mr Ben Cox, Mr Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick Rudd, Amber Watkinson, Dame Angela Crabb, Stephen Hermon, Lady Ruffley, Mr David Weatherley, Mike Crouch, Tracey Hinds, Damian Rutley, David Wharton, James Davies, David T. C. Hoban, Mr Mark Sandys, Laura Wheeler, Heather (Monmouth) Hollobone, Mr Philip Scott, Mr Lee White, Chris Davies, Glyn Holloway, Mr Adam Selous, Andrew Whittaker, Craig Davies, Philip Hopkins, Kris Shannon, Jim Whittingdale, Mr John Davis, rh Mr David Howarth, Sir Gerald Shapps, rh Grant Wiggin, Bill de Bois, Nick Howell, John Sharma, Alok Willetts, rh Mr David Dinenage, Caroline Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Shelbrooke, Alec Williamson, Gavin Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hurd, Mr Nick Shepherd, Sir Richard Wilson, Mr Rob Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Jackson, Mr Stewart Simmonds, Mark Wilson, Sammy Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen James, Margot Simpson, Mr Keith Wollaston, Dr Sarah Dorries, Nadine Javid, Sajid Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Gareth Skidmore, Chris Wright, Jeremy Smith, Chloe Drax, Richard Johnson, Joseph Yeo, Mr Tim Smith, Henry Duddridge, James Jones, Andrew Young, rh Sir George Smith, Julian Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, rh Mr David Soames, rh Nicholas Tellers for the Noes: Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Jones, Mr Marcus Soubry, Anna Harriett Baldwin and Dunne, Mr Philip Kawczynski, Daniel Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Claire Perry Durkan, Mark Kelly, Chris Ellis, Michael Kirby, Simon Question accordingly negatived. Ellison, Jane Knight, rh Sir Greg Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kwarteng, Kwasi Elphicke, Charlie Lancaster, Mark 4.13 pm Eustice, George Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Proceedings interrupted (Programme Order, 1 April). Evans, Graham Latham, Pauline The Chair put forthwith the Question necessary for the Evans, Jonathan Leadsom, Andrea disposal of the business to be concluded at that time Evennett, Mr David Lee, Jessica (Standing Order No. 83D). Fabricant, Michael Lee, Dr Phillip Fallon, rh Michael Lefroy, Jeremy Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill. Field, Mark Leigh, Sir Edward The Committee divided: Ayes 279, Noes 214. Fox,rhDrLiam Leslie, Charlotte Francois, rh Mr Mark Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Division No. 250] [4.13 pm Freeman, George Lewis, Brandon Freer, Mike Lewis, Dr Julian AYES Fullbrook, Lorraine Lidington, rh Mr David Adams, Nigel Bellingham, Mr Henry Fuller, Richard Lilley, rh Mr Peter Afriyie, Adam Benyon, Richard Garnier, Sir Edward Long, Naomi Aldous, Peter Beresford, Sir Paul Garnier, Mark Lopresti, Jack Andrew, Stuart Berry, Jake Gauke, Mr David Loughton, Tim Bacon, Mr Richard Bingham, Andrew Gibb, Mr Nick Luff, Sir Peter Baker, Steve Blackman, Bob Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lumley, Karen Baldry, rh Sir Tony Blackwood, Nicola Glen, John Macleod, Mary Barclay, Stephen Blunt, Crispin Goldsmith, Zac Maynard, Paul Baron, Mr John Boles, Nick Goodwill, Mr Robert McCartney, Jason Barwell, Gavin Bottomley, Sir Peter Gove, rh Michael McCartney, Karl Bebb, Guto Bradley, Karen Graham, Richard McDonnell, Dr Alasdair 327 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 328

McIntosh, Miss Anne Scott, Mr Lee Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Heyes, David McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Selous, Andrew Brennan, Kevin Hillier, Meg McPartland, Stephen Shannon, Jim Brown, Lyn Hilling, Julie McVey, rh Esther Shapps, rh Grant Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Menzies, Mark Sharma, Alok Brown, Mr Russell Hoey, Kate Mercer, Patrick Shelbrooke, Alec Bryant, Chris Hopkins, Kelvin Metcalfe, Stephen Shepherd, Sir Richard Buck, Ms Karen Howarth, rh Mr George Mills, Nigel Simmonds, Mark Burden, Richard Hunt, Tristram Milton, Anne Simpson, Mr Keith Byrne, rh Mr Liam Irranca-Davies, Huw Mordaunt, Penny Skidmore, Chris Campbell, rh Mr Alan Jackson, Glenda Morgan, Nicky Smith, Chloe Campbell, Mr Ronnie James, Mrs Siân C. Morris, Anne Marie Smith, Henry Champion, Sarah Jamieson, Cathy Morris, James Smith, Julian Chapman, Jenny Jarvis, Dan Mosley, Stephen Soames, rh Nicholas Clarke, rh Mr Tom Johnson, rh Alan Mowat, David Soubry, Anna Clwyd, rh Ann Johnson, Diana Mundell, rh David Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Coaker, Vernon Jones, Graham Murray, Sheryll Stanley, rh Sir John Coffey, Ann Jones, Helen Murrison, Dr Andrew Stevenson, John Connarty, Michael Jones, Mr Kevan Neill, Robert Stewart, Bob Cooper, rh Yvette Jones, Susan Elan Newmark, Mr Brooks Stewart, Iain Corbyn, Jeremy Kane, Mike Newton, Sarah Stride, Mel Creagh, Mary Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Nokes, Caroline Stuart, Mr Graham Creasy, Stella Keeley, Barbara Norman, Jesse Sturdy, Julian Cruddas, Jon Khan, rh Sadiq Nuttall, Mr David Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Cunningham, Alex Lammy, rh Mr David O’Brien, rh Mr Stephen Swire, rh Mr Hugo Cunningham, Mr Jim Lavery, Ian Offord, Dr Matthew Syms, Mr Robert Curran, Margaret Lazarowicz, Mark Ollerenshaw, Eric Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Dakin, Nic Leslie, Chris Opperman, Guy Timpson, Mr Edward Danczuk, Simon Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Ottaway, rh Sir Richard Tomlinson, Justin David, Wayne Lewis, Mr Ivan Paice, rh Sir James Tredinnick, David Davidson, Mr Ian Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Paisley, Ian Truss, Elizabeth De Piero, Gloria Love, Mr Andrew Parish, Neil Turner, Mr Andrew Denham, rh Mr John Lucas, Caroline Patel, Priti Uppal, Paul Dobson, rh Frank Lucas, Ian Paterson, rh Mr Owen Vaizey, Mr Edward Docherty, Thomas MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Pawsey, Mark Vara, Mr Shailesh Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Mahmood, Shabana Penning, rh Mike Vickers, Martin Doran, Mr Frank Mann, John Penrose, John Walker, Mr Charles Doughty, Stephen Marsden, Mr Gordon Phillips, Stephen Walker, Mr Robin Dowd, Jim McCabe, Steve Pickles, rh Mr Eric Wallace, Mr Ben Doyle, Gemma McCann, Mr Michael Pincher, Christopher Watkinson, Dame Angela Dromey, Jack McCarthy, Kerry Poulter, Dr Daniel Weatherley, Mike Dugher, Michael McClymont, Gregg Prisk, Mr Mark Wharton, James Eagle, Ms Angela McDonagh, Siobhain Pritchard, Mark Wheeler, Heather Eagle, Maria McDonald, Andy Raab, Mr Dominic White, Chris Edwards, Jonathan McDonnell, John Randall, rh Sir John Whittaker, Craig Efford, Clive McFadden, rh Mr Pat Reckless, Mark Whittingdale, Mr John Elliott, Julie McGovern, Alison Redwood, rh Mr John Wiggin, Bill Ellman, Mrs Louise McGovern, Jim Rees-Mogg, Jacob Willetts, rh Mr David Engel, Natascha McKechin, Ann Reevell, Simon Williamson, Gavin Esterson, Bill McKenzie, Mr Iain Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Wilson, Mr Rob Evans, Chris McKinnell, Catherine Ritchie, Ms Margaret Wilson, Sammy Farrelly, Paul Mearns, Ian Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Wollaston, Dr Sarah Field, rh Mr Frank Miller, Andrew Fitzpatrick, Jim Mitchell, Austin Robertson, rh Hugh Wright, Jeremy Robertson, Mr Laurence Flello, Robert Moon, Mrs Madeleine Yeo, Mr Tim Rosindell, Andrew Flynn, Paul Morden, Jessica Young, rh Sir George Rudd, Amber Fovargue, Yvonne Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Ruffley, Mr David Tellers for the Ayes: Gapes, Mike Morris, Grahame M. Rutley, David Harriett Baldwin and Gardiner, Barry (Easington) Sandys, Laura Claire Perry Gilmore, Sheila Munn, Meg Glass, Pat Murphy, rh Mr Jim NOES Glindon, Mrs Mary Murphy, rh Paul Godsiff, Mr Roger Murray, Ian Abbott, Ms Diane Barron, rh Kevin Goodman, Helen Nash, Pamela Abrahams, Debbie Bayley, Hugh Greatrex, Tom O’Donnell, Fiona Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Begg, Dame Anne Green, Kate Onwurah, Chi Alexander, Heidi Benn, rh Hilary Greenwood, Lilian Owen, Albert Ali, Rushanara Berger, Luciana Hain, rh Mr Peter Perkins, Toby Allen, Mr Graham Betts, Mr Clive Hamilton, Mr David Phillipson, Bridget Ashworth, Jonathan Blackman-Woods, Roberta Hanson, rh Mr David Pound, Stephen Bailey, Mr Adrian Blenkinsop, Tom Harman, rh Ms Harriet Powell, Lucy Bain, Mr William Blomfield, Paul Healey, rh John Qureshi, Yasmin Balls, rh Ed Blunkett, rh Mr David Hendrick, Mark Raynsford, rh Mr Nick 329 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 330

Reed, Mr Jamie Stuart, Ms Gisela (3) A copy of the report in subsections (1) and (2) shall be laid Reed, Mr Steve Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry before Parliament.’. Reeves, Rachel Tami, Mark Clause 112 stand part. Reynolds, Emma Thomas, Mr Gareth Reynolds, Jonathan Thornberry, Emily Riordan, Mrs Linda Timms, rh Stephen Cathy Jamieson: It is a pleasure to be here this Robertson, Angus Turner, Karl afternoon to continue what have been interesting debates, Robertson, John Twigg, Derek as they always are on Finance Bills. I notice that the Rotheram, Steve Umunna, Mr Chuka hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) is no Roy, Mr Frank Vaz, rh Keith longer in his place, but I thought I ought to declare my Roy, Lindsay Vaz, Valerie interest, given his comments to my hon. Friend the Ruane, Chris Watson, Mr Tom Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Weir, Mr Mike McKinnell) about tofu-eating, Guardian-reading, sandal- Sawford, Andy Whiteford, Dr Eilidh wearing people. If I say nothing other than that I am a Seabeck, Alison Whitehead, Dr Alan vegan, perhaps Members will see that those comments Sharma, Mr Virendra Williams, Hywel would have been more aptly aimed at me rather than my Sheerman, Mr Barry Williamson, Chris hon. Friend, who I am assured is not a tofu eater. Shuker, Gavin Winnick, Mr David Skinner, Mr Dennis Winterton, rh Ms Rosie The new clause and amendment build on points that Slaughter, Mr Andy Wishart, Pete the Opposition have made before, both on previous Smith, rh Mr Andrew Woodcock, John Finance Bills and in various other debates. New clause 5 Smith, Angela Woodward, rh Mr Shaun would require the Chancellor to review and report on Smith, Nick Wright, David the feasibility of reintroducing a bank payroll tax, Smith, Owen Wright, Mr Iain otherwise known as a bank bonus tax, and on whether Spellar, rh Mr John Tellers for the Noes: the additional revenue could be used to fund a job Straw, rh Mr Jack Phil Wilson and guarantee scheme for people in long-term unemployment, Stringer, Graham Seema Malhotra along the lines that we have proposed. The new clause and amendment are reasonable and relatively Question accordingly agreed to. straightforward, and there is no hidden agenda behind Clause 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill. them. The Exchequer Secretary will know from previous Finance Bills and other debates that I always make reasonable suggestions, and I wish to explain why we New Clause 5 believe that the new clause is the right approach at this time. BANK PAYROLL TAX To put the matter into context, nearly 1 million ‘(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer shall carry out a review young people are unemployed, and the time is right to of— do something about that by repeating the tax on bank (a) the possible impact on the bank levy rate of incorporating bonuses to fund a compulsory jobs guarantee for every a bank payroll tax within the bank levy; and young person who has been out of work for more than (b) how the additional revenue could be invested to help 12 months. We have been clear that they would have to pay for the first year of a guaranteed jobs scheme for take that job, or they would lose benefits. The bank people in long-term unemployment. bonus tax would help to fund the first year of such a (2) The Chancellor must within six months of the passing of guarantee. As I have said, there are a large number of this Act publish the report of the review and lay the report before long-term unemployed people, and the guarantee would the House.’.—(Cathy Jamieson.) help to ensure that not just young people but those over Brought up, and read the First time. 25 who had been out of work for two years or more got back into work. I will come on to why that is so Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- important, but we believe that the bank bonus tax, op): I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second coupled with our plan to change pension tax relief, time. would ensure an annual revenue stream to fund that policy throughout the next Parliament. The Temporary Chair (Martin Caton): With this it I was expecting that Government Members might will be convenient to discuss the following: raise a particular query at this stage, but I will save them Amendment 1, in clause 112, page 94, line 1, at the trouble of intervening by saying, for the avoidance beginning insert— of any doubt, that the compulsory jobs guarantee is the ‘(1) Before bringing forward any further reform of the bank only policy that we intend to be funded by the bank levy rates system, the Chancellor shall lay before Parliament a bonus tax and the proposed changes to pension tax report considering the impact on the total receipts paid to the relief. Exchequer since 2010 by— Let me give the context of the previous bankers (a) UK banking groups; bonus tax—the bankers’ payroll tax, as it was called at (b) building society groups; the time. Despite comments that Government Members (c) foreign banking groups; and often make, it is generally acknowledged that the banking (d) relevant non-banking groups. system survived the financial crash in 2007-08 largely due to the significant support that it received from the (2) The report will pay particular attention to receipts from— taxpayer. Even today, according to the New Economics (a) corporation tax; Foundation, the banks deemed too big to fail continue (b) the bank levy; and to receive pretty generous taxpayer support. Barclays, (c) bank payroll tax. the Royal Bank of Scotland, HSBC and Lloyds enjoyed 331 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 332 combined savings of £37.7 billion in 2012, because the rate swaps, which affected small businesses. Small businesses financial markets deemed them to big to fail. Arguably, thought they were doing the right thing in trying to that has left some smaller banks and new competitors at mitigate risks such as fluctuations in foreign exchange a disadvantage, because they cannot enjoy the subsidised rates, but the largest banks have had to put aside more borrowing rates of the big four. Notwithstanding the than £3 billion to provide against compensation claims changes that have been made, about which I will say more, by customers, which shows how serious that was. the banking system arguably remains too concentrated and potentially risky. The reality—the Minister and Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Will the hon. others will be well aware of it—is that, if there is Lady remind hon. Members how much she wants to another problem in any of the banks, or another financial raise from the tax in the first full year? What impact crisis, taxpayers would bear the costs of the bail-out. would it have on banks’ capacity to lend?

4.30 pm Cathy Jamieson: I will come to that. In discussions I Given the level of taxpayer support received by the have had with banks they say that they want to lend and banks in the previous financial crisis, it was clear that have the resources to do so, but some of the schemes the imposition of some form of taxation was both necessary have not necessarily encouraged people to come forward and justifiable in order to see a return for the taxpayer. and have not been as successful as they might have The 2009 bank payroll tax—the bankers’ bonus tax—was wished. I have also heard the criticism from some intended to do that. It was intended to secure something banks, not all, that perhaps another levy or a different back for the taxpayer, but it was also intended to be a approach to the bankers bonus tax would have implications signal to prompt behavioural change in the banks. for capitalisation of the banks and so on. However, When the then Chancellor announced the payroll tax when we look at the scale of some of the bonus pots, it in his pre-Budget statement in December 2009, he made is difficult to make the argument that the money will it clear that it was a special, one-off levy of 50% on any not be there. The money appears to be there in some individual discretionary bonus of more than £25,000. instances for excessive remuneration and bonuses, rather The legislation to introduce it was included in the than other schemes. Finance Act 2010, and agreed with cross-party support, Compensation costs for the mis-selling of payment including, as I understand it, from the then shadow protection insurance—the PPI scandal—have now reached Chancellor, albeit grudgingly—perhaps an hon. Member £22 billion, an astonishing sum, with Lloyds alone will correct me on that. Initially, it was estimated that incurring compensation costs not far short of £10 billion. the tax would generate revenues of just over £500 million Significant fines have been imposed on Barclays, RBS, but, in fact, it raised £3.5 billion. That funding was used Lloyds and Deutsche Bank for attempts to rig LIBOR, for a range of measures, including helping the unemployed doing huge damage to the banks’ credibility and showing get back to work. how important it is to change the culture and behaviour. Hon. Members might ask why we now need another That change has been much talked about, but has yet to bankers bonus tax. It is worth recalling that the Labour be delivered entirely. Government introduced a voluntary code of conduct I am not trying to bash the bankers, as it is sometimes for the banks. A number signed up very quickly, but portrayed. I well understand the difficulties faced by others took longer to come to the conclusion that they front-line staff in the banks—the people in the lower ought to do something. We have since had separate tiers of the management system. They operated in and banking commissions, and the recent Financial Services had to comply with the prevailing culture, and were set (Banking Reform) Act 2013, which was debated at particular targets and given sales incentives. When we some length. It is fair to say we reached agreement on look back at that approach, we can begin to pinpoint some points, but the Opposition believe that the the move away from the notion that the bank was there Government, at various stages, continued to duck the to look after people’s money, both individual depositors radical banking reform that was needed. We were and local businesses, towards the retail culture, in which disappointed when the Government did not initially the emphasis was on selling and making profits without, back a number of Opposition amendments in the in some instances, due care and attention to fiscal Commons, but some changes were made in another responsibilities and duties to the customer. I hope that place. changes brought about by recent legislation will see an It is also fair to say that, despite some of those end to that culture. Many of the banks are talking changes and the positive noises that have been made—like about that, and it will understandably take time, but we other hon. Members, I meet many people from the need the nudges, the pressures and the reminders, not banks in the work undertaken in Committee and the just from the regulators, but through public opinion. Chamber—the evidence, certainly as far as members of Unless a watchful eye is kept on the banks, the change the public are concerned, suggests that the banks have in culture will not necessarily succeed. not entirely changed their ways as we might have hoped. Despite having racked up billions of pounds in fines, That has a number of implications for their credibility. several of the big banks still proposed significantly Many people even in the banking world accept that. higher bonuses for 2013—the latest year for which They accept that they have some considerable way to go figures are available—than for the previous year. They to show the public that they have learned their lessons went up 10% to £2.4 billion at Barclays; up 8% at and changed their approach to reward and remuneration— Lloyds to £395 million; and up 6% at HSBC to £2.3 billion. they know they have much more to do. RBS, which is 81% owned by the taxpayer, has also Without wishing simply to list the problems, it is announced a bonus pool of £588 million this year. I salutary to remember recent scandals and the implications know that some of the banks claim that their overall of them for people, including the mis-selling of interest bonus pool is coming down, but for the ordinary person 333 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 334

[Cathy Jamieson] suggested, ordinary people, particularly young people, are still dealing with the legacy of the financial chaos in the street the figures are more than they would ever caused by the banks, and with the cost of living crisis hope to win in a lottery in their wildest dreams, never that has been made worse by the policies of this mind expect to earn in the course of a year. They also Government. To return to her point, real wages—I will find it astonishing that the banks might seek to breach say it again, even though I know it has been repeated on the EU cap on bankers bonuses. It is difficult to understand numerous occasions in the course of these debates—have why people who are paid in excess of £1 million, and fallen by £1,600 since 2010. That is a huge amount of have a range of other benefits, seek bonuses of twice money for those on the lowest incomes. That may not their annual salary. have an impact on those who received the average tax cut of £36,300, but it is certainly has an impact on Bob Stewart: One consequence of bonus payments is ordinary people who are trying to do the best for their that the Treasury, presumably, gets 40% of them, which families. is a bonus for the Exchequer. Or have I got that wrong? Cathy Jamieson: I will come on to that point, and on 4.45 pm to corporation tax, when I speak in more detail about It is worth repeating the figures from the Institute for why we want a review of the bank levy.I hope Government Fiscal Studies. Families will be £974 a year worse off by Members understand why we think it is important to the time of the next election, which will be a real have a review and to consider the implications. I started problem for people who are doing their best to look by saying that we are taking a relatively mild-mannered after their children, keep a roof over their heads, approach, with no demand, as is sometimes made, for maintain a decent standard of living, and ensure that something to happen immediately. We are saying, “Let’s their kids have the same things as their schoolmates look at the figures, let’s look at the implications, let’s and other friends. These people are not necessarily look at what can be done in the round, and let’s have the leading lavish lifestyles; they are simply trying to get by Government do that work and bring it back for further without getting into debt. Some are even trying to put discussion.” aside a small amount of savings for a rainy day, but To go back to the hon. Gentleman’s point, the figures many who have done that are now finding that it has compiled by the Labour party suggest that the cut to not just rained but poured, that their savings are gone, the 50p tax rate saw an estimated 2,714 bankers who and that they are literally living from one week to the earn more than £800,000 share a £98.5 million windfall—an next. I do not need to repeat everything that has already average tax cut of £36,300 each. I just make that point been said about those who are struggling most and are in relation to the notion that the Treasury will somehow resorting to payday lenders, and the increasing number get the yield from that. of people who are using credit cards to pay their utility bills and buy household items that all of us here take for Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) granted. (Lab): Would my hon. Friend like to comment on why the gap—which I do not think, from their policies, David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): There is a Government Members understand—between the top perfectly good case to be made for reducing the difference and the bottom matters? Overwhelming evidence shows between high and low salaries, and the hon. Lady is how harmful it is to society that the gap between rich making it. What I do not understand about Labour’s and poor is increasing. policy is that it seems to be concerned with variable pay but not with fixed pay. Labour Members appear to be Cathy Jamieson: My hon. Friend makes an important quite sanguine about a pay level of £2 million a year, point and it is important to recognise it. I made the but not about a pay level that consists of a £1 million point that this is not about bashing the bankers per se. basic salary and a £1 million bonus. That strikes me as The front-line staff who operate call centres and other rather odd. places have not seen their living standards rise as quickly as they might have wished. Those on the minimum Cathy Jamieson: I think that a separate debate could wage or the living wage, who aspire to improved be had about pay levels overall, but for the purposes of employment opportunities if they were available; those the debate on new clause 5, we are focusing specifically on zero-hours contracts; those who work part time but on the question of bonus payments. It has been argued would prefer to work full time; young people taking any that if we follow this line the banks will find an increasing job, even if it is a stop-gap until they find one that suits number of ways of paying bonuses, such as deferring their qualifications and aspirations—they are the ones them, and we have not said that is necessarily a bad who find it most difficult to understand why the banks thing. However, for the purpose of longer-term economic have not changed their culture. It appears to them that stability, it is surely better for people not to be rewarded in some instances people were being rewarded not for for failure, but to be held to account over a longer success but for failure, and that they could not aspire to period. have their own success in their own jobs rewarded. It is also fair to say that in some ways the financial services David Mowat: Of course that is right, but if we are sector was slightly better protected from the wage freezes trying to reward people for success, it seems logical to and so on than manufacturing and other sectors in assume that variable pay provides a better and more industry. I absolutely understand my hon. Friend’s point. valuable way of doing that than very high fixed pay. I No Government Members are seeking to intervene at do not understand why the Labour party is so relaxed this point, so I can only assume that they heard what my about very high fixed pay but wishes to tax variable pay, hon. Friend said and agree that this is a very important which can be associated—I agree that this is not always point in considering how to take things forward. As she the case—with success or failure. 335 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 336

Cathy Jamieson: When the last Labour Government Cathy Jamieson: I note that the hon. Gentleman did introduced a bank bonus tax, one of the issues that we not quote the long-term youth unemployment rate for considered was behavioural change, but that behavioural my constituency. He is looking at the overall long-term change has not come about in the way that we might unemployment rates, and in my constituency, which I have expected. have lived in for most of my life, I have seen what has Let me return to our proposal that these funds should happened in relation to people who have been unable to be used to return 900,000 long-term unemployed young secure permanent full-time employment. I have seen the people to work. The rate of long-term unemployment young people who have been unable to get the has almost doubled since 2010. Government Members apprenticeships they so desperately want. I also know, talk of the number of jobs that have been created for from work I did in the past—I did have a life before I people in their constituencies, but the fact is that in came into the hallowed halls of this place—with young most constituencies young people are out of work for vulnerable people, the importance of trying to support extended periods—in some instances, for more than a them into employment. I know, too, that many young year. A year in the life of a young person can make all people right across the UK are in the same situation: the difference to the extent to which that young person they are desperate to get into employment; they need will succeed in later life. We all know that if young the help to get there; they need us to be on their side. I people do not have an opportunity to enter education, therefore cannot for the life of me understand why employment or training when they leave school, that those on the Government Benches would want to vote can have significant implications for their earning capacity against bringing forward a report to look at this in more and ability to look after themselves and their families in detail. later years, and indeed can have a number of long-term implications for the state. Guy Opperman rose— Cathy Jamieson: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can Mrs Glindon: The cuts in the bank levy and corporation explain to me why he does not support the idea of tax over the last three years have cost the country nearly bringing forward this report. £3 billion. Given what that £3 billion could have done for the young people my hon. Friend is describing, it is a Guy Opperman: Does the hon. Lady not accept that disgrace that it was not collected. things like traineeships, which are the greatest passport into apprenticeships and jobs, are the true best way in Cathy Jamieson: I am sure that, like me, my hon. which to train up our young men and women so they Friend meets young people every day who are desperate can then obtain the jobs and apprenticeships she is so to get into employment, and understands absolutely laudably seeking? what additional funding would do to help that happen. Like many other Members, I organised a jobs and Cathy Jamieson: I have no difficulty with the idea of employment fair in my constituency recently, and it was getting young people into any form of education, humbling to see the number of young people standing employment, traineeship and so on, but we have to outside the hall queuing up before it opened in the ensure that that is available to the young people who are morning in the hope of obtaining an interview and the out of work for a lengthy period as a priority, because opportunity to put themselves forward to the employers we know that the longer young people are away from who were there either for an apprenticeship or even for the jobs market, the more difficult it is for them to get part-time work—anything to get them off the dole back in, and I do not see that the hon. Gentleman’s queues. If we look at what we could do through this point is in any way incompatible with the idea of bankers bonus tax to support those young people, I bringing forward a report to look in more detail at how think it is clear that is well worth introducing. this could work and how the funding would be used. Unlike the Government, we are not willing to sit back and do nothing while ordinary people are struggling Debbie Abrahams: I should like to make a quick point with the cost of living crisis. That is why we are calling about the evidence that links entry-type jobs to future on the Chancellor to publish a report on the feasibility career progression. That evidence is weak, so my hon. of reintroducing the bank payroll tax and using the Friend is right to say that a sustained approach needs to proceeds generated to fund what we have called a be taken. Is she also aware that a Prince’s Trust report compulsory jobs guarantee. on long-term youth unemployment shows that one in five young people who are long-term unemployed feel It is important to stress a point I made earlier: under that they have nothing worth living for? Long-term the scheme we are proposing every young person out of unemployment has a direct effect on finances, but it also work for more than 12 months would be guaranteed a affects how young people view themselves in society. job, and they would take that up or they would lose The implications of that are— benefits. So there is both the carrot and the stick, because we think that is important. The Temporary Chair (Martin Caton): Order. This is an extremely long intervention. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I have been listening to the hon. Lady’s argument and so I took the trouble Cathy Jamieson: My hon. Friend was making a valuable to check the JSA claimant levels for her constituency: point. I am well aware of the excellent work being done the number of 18 to 24-year-old JSA claimants is down by the Prince’s Trust. Many young people who felt that 20.7% and claims of duration of over 12 months—the they had very little hope have been given hope through long term—are down 12.1%. Surely that disproves her their involvement in that work. It has given them confidence, argument that the figures are going up? skills, training and, in many cases, an opportunity to get 337 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 338

[Cathy Jamieson] “When it is fully operational the bank levy is going to raise £2.5 billion and we made it clear that we are targeting a revenue their first job, so that they can start earning and contributing sum rather than a particular rate because we think that is an to society. That should be our aim for all our young appropriate contribution that balances fairness with the competitiveness of the UK banking sector.” people. In Prime Minister’s questions on 12 January 2011, the I therefore hope that the Government will agree to Prime Minister said: our proposal for a report. We believe that the scheme would cost about £1.9 billion. As I have said, the cost “The bank levy will raise £2.5 billion each year once it is fully would be met in the first year by the tax on bonuses and up and running…we will raise £9 billion compared with his by the reduction in the rate of tax relief available to £2.3 billion. Even the shadow Chancellor can work out that 9 is bigger than 2.3.”—[Official Report, 12 January 2011; Vol. 521, those earning more than £150,000 a year. Those measures c. 280.] should generate more than £2.5 billion, and the annual revenue generated by the changes to pensions tax relief Let me remind the House that in its first two years the would fund the jobs guarantee throughout the next levy generated just £1.6 billion a year, which was well Parliament. below the £3.6 billion generated by Labour’s bankers’ bonus tax and considerably below the £2.5 billion annual We have consistently argued for the reintroduction of target the Government set. [Interruption.] I am not the bankers bonus tax, to ensure that the banks fulfil sure whether the Minister wishes to intervene. He seemed their obligation to the taxpayer by supporting jobs and to be saying something from a sedentary position. growth in the economy. That is why we are calling on the Government again today to stand up for the taxpayer, and for those people who are desperate to get into work, Mr Gauke: I just make the point that one has to including young people and the long-term unemployed. examine the net yield from the bankers’ payroll tax, We are calling on the Government to send a clear signal taking into account the revenue that is lost because to the banks by supporting us today. there are lower receipts for income tax and national Amendment 1 to clause 112 relates to the bank levy. insurance contributions. Just to be clear, the number is This, too, involves a request for a report. In this instance, £2.3 billion. we are requesting that the Chancellor, prior to implementing any further reforms to the bank levy, should lay before Cathy Jamieson: Yes, I hear what the Minister is Parliament a report that considers the impact on the saying and I shall deal with some of that in a moment, total tax receipts paid to the Exchequer since 2010 by because I am concerned to ensure that we get all the UK banks, building societies, foreign banks and relevant sums right and reach figures that everyone would agree non-banking groups. We want the report to pay particular on. Again, that is one reason we want this report attention to receipts generated from corporation tax, brought forward, because we are now being told that the bank levy and the bank payroll tax. the levy will generate £2.3 billion in 2013-14, £2.7 billion It is important to set this proposal in context. In the in 2014-15 and £2.9 billion in each of the following recent Budget, a consultation was announced on the three years. I would give way to him again if he were proposed changes to the bank levy. We are concerned able to give the details, but perhaps it would be more that those changes could lead to the bigger banks appropriate if he did so his response later, as it may take paying less as a result of the introduction of a band-based time to get them. We do not have the detailed figures, system in which the tax of an individual bank would the evidence or the workings to show how those figures be capped at an upper limit of £375 million. I know are arrived at and whether things are on course to that the Government have said that this measure deliver them. That is why it is important to get the would be cost neutral, but we are not convinced that it report we are calling for today. would be of benefit. We have made it clear in the past Let me say something about the problems with the that, when we are in government, we will put in place a levy as we see them. As I have said and as my hon. bank levy and use the additional funds raised to expand Friend the Member for Nottingham East has in previous free child care for working parents of three and four- contributions, the Government’s levy lacks ambition. year-olds from 15 to 25 hours a week. Perhaps that is a The argument is that the initial levy was set at a relatively debate for another day, however. I shall focus on the low rate, both by international standards and when bank levy. measured against the scale of the taxpayer subsidies We have made it clear all along that a bank levy is received by the sector during the financial crisis and not a bad idea in itself. As my hon. Friend the Member thereafter. In discussion of the Finance Bill in May for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) has argued in 2011, he said: Committee and on the Floor of the House, however, the “The bank levy is a sensible idea in theory, and we broadly proposal was unambitious and has been poorly support it. However, the yield suggested in the Bill—only implemented. When the Chancellor announced its £2.6 billion—is not just small but pathetic by international introduction in May 2010, he confidently asserted that standards”.—[Official Report, 3 May 2011; Vol. 527, c. 482.] it would generate more than £2 billion of annual revenues. I will happily give way to the Minister if he wants to That is the assertion he has made on several occasions comment on the international standards, but again, and it has been enthusiastically backed by the Prime perhaps he will do so when he winds up. Minister. One other problem with the levy is that its two objectives can be seen as a bit of a paradox or even 5pm somewhat contradictory. By setting the levy as a tax on In evidence to the Treasury Committee on the 2010 bank liabilities in excess of £20 billion and charging a Budget, the Chancellor said: lower rate for more secure long-term liabilities, the 339 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 340

Chancellor was actively encouraging the banks to reduce be shared by everyone in all parts of the House. A their exposure by moving towards more stable forms of combination of two factors—contradictory objectives funding. and corporation tax cuts—means that the levy has increased on no fewer than seven occasions. It is important Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): My for me to lay this out so that the House understands the hon. Friend has just touched on the central point about time scale for what happened with the levy, because it the levy: that the Government never had the will to take adds weight to our call for a report to consider that in on the bankers in the first place, as we see if we compare more detail. what happened in this country with what happened in Back in February 2011, it was confirmed that the rate the United States. That is why they cannot wholeheartedly would be higher than originally proposed. That was support a proper levy on the banks; it is a token levy. change number one. In March 2011, at the Budget, the levy was increased to offset the effect of the 1% cut in Cathy Jamieson: My hon. Friend makes an interesting corporation tax and by the autumn statement in November point. I suspect that if I were to stray into a long debate 2011—autumn was already beginning to be stretched as on what happened in the US versus what happened far as we thought possible, although of course, autumn here, I would see—yes, I do see—Mr Bone’s eye upon is now in December as far as the Government are me to ensure that I did not yield to that particular concerned—the rates were increased to ensure that tax temptation. However, I say to my hon. Friend that that would raise at least £2.5 billion a year. I think that was a could usefully form the subject of another debate at tacit admission that the initial rate was perhaps somewhat some point, but he makes an interesting point about the timid. In March 2012, at the next Budget, the levy was will to take on the banks. I want to choose my language increased again to offset the 1% cut in corporation tax. carefully because I want to avoid getting into that whole In the next autumn statement, when the autumn had thing of our being seen as aggressively pursuing the been stretched as far as possible into the first week in banks. I recognise that there are some in the banking December, the levy was increased again to offset the sector who understand how badly they got it wrong and 1% reduction in corporation tax. At the March 2013 who want to see change, but the scale of the problem Budget, the levy was increased again—guess why: to has not been universally accepted, and nor has the offset the 1% reduction in corporation tax. In December degree of culture change that is required. The Minister 2013, again at the autumn statement, in what appeared has heard Opposition Members talk about that issue almost to be a desperate attempt to get somewhere near many times when discussing other legislation. the £2.5 billion target, the Chancellor increased the levy Returning to the initial imposition of the levy, the again and broadened the tax base in an apparent attempt Chancellor also wanted to generate more than £2 billion to mitigate the impact of the very behavioural change in annual revenues. One problem was that, as was that the tax is supposed to encourage. pointed out earlier, the more the banks changed their behaviour and remodelled their balance sheets, the less Jenny Chapman: Has my hon. Friend done the money the levy generated. Was the Chancellor unable calculation? I am doing it as she speaks and it sounds as or unwilling to decide whether he wanted behavioural though the Government have raised about £3 billion change or a targeted revenue sum? Was it possible to do less than they wanted to from the combined measures. both? Some evidence suggests that it was not, because it has not brought in the amount of revenue that he Cathy Jamieson: My hon. Friend makes a valuable intended. point. I stress that we have proposed today that this Not content with devising a levy the dual aims of report should be undertaken and brought to the House which are somewhat contradictory, the Chancellor also so that hon. Members can be fully informed about what proceeded to cut corporation tax annually, arguably has happened, what has been successful, what has not handing the banks a tax break. In order to ensure that worked and how we can best look to the future. My the banks do not benefit from the tax break, the Chancellor hon. Friend might well be interested to know that I was has had to increase the levy every time he cut corporation about to say that, following the Chancellor’s latest tax. We have consistently raised doubts about the levy’s projections for the bank levy, a contributor to the Tax ability to raise sufficient funds, especially in the context Journal stated that the continued difficulty in raising the of the cuts to corporation tax. During consideration on expected yield Report of the 2011 Finance Bill, my hon. Friend the “should become a lesson in the problems of saddling a new tax Member for Nottingham East said: aimed at managing behaviour with a fixed revenue target”. “The sector will have a tax cut of £100 million in 2011-12, It seems to me and my right hon. and hon. Friends £200 million in 2012-13, £300 million in 2013-14, and £400 million that the Chancellor has not fully learned the lessons, in 2014-15. That is a £1 billion corporation tax cut over this because he is now consulting on wholesale changes to Parliament.” the levy that would lead to the introduction of a band-based He continued: system under which the tax of individual banks would “The Treasury ought to supplement its very modest bank levy be capped at an upper limit of £375 million. As I said plan with the bank bonus tax because it is only fair that those who earlier, although the Government claim that that will be played such a central role in the global economic downturn make cost neutral, there is speculation already that it might a greater contribution to help to secure the economic recovery by lead to a tax cut for the banks that pay the larger share supporting jobs and growth.”—[Official Report, 5 July 2011; of the levy. That issue was raised in a report in The Vol. 530, c. 1383.] Daily Telegraph that said: I would have thought that that sentiment—that those “Last year, Barclays paid £504 million in levy charges, while involved in making some of the decisions that caused HSBC paid £544 million, the most of any bank. Under the draft the problems have a responsibility to do what they can proposals, Barclays’ bill would have been £129 million lower and to secure economic recovery and a change in culture—would HSBC’s would have been £169 million less.” 341 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 342

[Cathy Jamieson] Our amendments would shed welcome light on bank taxes with a view to ensuring that banks do not benefit We are struggling to understand whether that is really from any further unintended cuts. I hope the Minister what the Government intend. Why do they intend to do will regard as fair and reasonable our requests for things in that way? If we do not see the figures or the information and reports, so that we can take a genuine working and if we do not understand the overall impact look at what has happened with the bank levy and of what the Government are trying to do, the only examine the figures in detail in the House. I hope he will conclusion we can draw is that this is essentially a secret look similarly at the request for the report on the tax cut for some of the big banks that has been hidden bankers’ bonus tax. I accept that we have asked for away in the Budget. I look forward to hearing what the these things before, and the Government have not Minister has to say about that and why it is not sensible seen fit to agree to them, but it is always worth continuing to to publish the report that we have reasonably requested. make the point calmly and reasonably in the hope that Confidence in the banking system and financial services they will understand it and respond. I hope they will see has not been fully restored, and people in the real world fit to do that this time, because that would show that will want to know why it is a priority to give such a tax they are willing to recognise that people in the real cut to some of the biggest banks, at a time when world want trust in the banks to be restored, and would working people are worse off and banks are still paying ensure that the banks are treated fairly and treat the massive bonuses—indeed, in some instances, bigger bonuses taxpayer fairly. That is why we want to see that than in previous years. comprehensive review. As always, I look forward to the Minister’s response and I hope he will agree to produce the two reports we have reasonably requested 5.15 pm The bank levy has raised billions less than was originally Debbie Abrahams: It is a pleasure to serve under your promised. Perhaps the Minister can come clean and chairmanship, Mr Bone. It is a pleasure, too, to follow explain the impact that the banding will have on the my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun levy revenues from bigger banks in future. Can he (Cathy Jamieson). I shall spend a few minutes building guarantee that the proposed changes will not amount to on the economic context that she described. Unfortunately, a tax cuts for the big banks or, indeed, lead to an overall we have seen too much self-congratulation at the glimmers reduction in tax revenues? We have made it clear that we of economic recovery that the country is finally seeing, would increase the bank levy to raise an additional after three years of a flatlining economy. We need to £800 million a year. As I have said, we want that to fund look at the full picture. This is the worst recovery in an expansion of free child care places for working 100 years. parents of three and four-year-olds to 25 hours a week. The gross domestic product in quarter 4 of 2013 was When Labour introduced a bankers’ bonus tax, the 0.7%. That is 1.3% below the pre-recession peak in right hon. Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), who was 2008. We would need to grow 1.6% each quarter up to then shadow Chancellor, argued: the general election just to reach where we were at the “The real test of this new tax will be whether it curbs bank end of 2010. Since 2010, we have had growth of bonuses instead of curbing bank lending.”—[Official Report, 3.8%, compared with the US, where growth has been 9 December 2009; Vol. 502, c. 373.] 8.4%. UK productivity is the second lowest in the G7 While our bankers’ bonus tax met that test, the Chancellor’s and 20% lower than the G7 average—the widest gap bank levy has failed on his own terms, because bank since 1992. Exports were down 4% in the last quarter of bonuses have escalated, and bank lending to businesses 2013 and the trade deficit in December 2013 stood at has remained stagnant, despite the need for lending out £7.7 billion. As we know, the Government will have there, particularly to small and medium-sized enterprises. borrowed £190 billion more than planned in 2015. We have called on the Government to review the bank Public borrowing in 2015 will be £75 billion. We know levy, but they have refused to do so. Given the consistent about the promises in 2010 that the deficit would be failure of the levy to raise the projected amounts, it cleared. would appear not only that the Government have We have been speaking about the implications of the miscalculated its behavioural impact, but they have fragile recovery for employment and unemployment. failed accurately to predict the impact on the banks of The Government are keen to mention absolute numbers, their cuts to corporation tax. I said that there have been but the employment rate is still below pre-recession seven increases in the levy—every time there was a levels and most of the jobs created since 2010 tend to be change in the autumn statement or the Budget, there insecure, part-time and low paid. The proportion of was a cut in corporation tax. Again, we could have an short-term contracts has increased by 20 times to argument as to whether that was the right thing to do. 1.65 million, of which 655,000 are involuntary. The That does not relate to the new clause per se, but there increase in temporary jobs accounts for more than half was hasty scrabbling around to try to mitigate the of the rise in employment. Nearly one in five—that is, impact of the measure, and the overall picture was not 1.46 million people—work part-time because they cannot explained. As far as we can see, the Government have get full-time work. That is the highest level of not got their sums right, and we would like to see their underemployment since 1992. Four out of five new jobs workings. It is reasonable to ask the Government to are paid below the living wage. Another key issue is the support the amendments and introduce a full and geographical spread of these new jobs. Since 2010, comprehensive review of all taxes levied on the banking 79% of them have been in London, with only 10% in the sector. The failure of the bank levy to bring in the nine urban centres outside London. It is hardly a recovery expected revenue means that effectively, the banks have for the whole country, is it? received a tax cut, despite what the Minister will doubtless My hon. Friend spoke in depth about unemployment. claim to the contrary. I am concerned that the true levels of unemployment 343 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 344 are hidden. We have seen a sudden increase in self- than the bottom 20%, equating to 12.6 million people. employment, which, as I know from my role on the Rafts of reports from the Equality Trust and others Work and Pensions Committee, has been pushed in describe this situation. That gap matters, because jobcentres. There has been a 4% rise in self-employment overwhelming evidence shows that society as a whole in the last quarter, and a huge rise in inappropriate and benefits from more equality through better life expectancy, punitive sanctions attached to social security payments mental health, social mobility and educational attainment, since the benefit sanctions regime was introduced at the and reduced crime—everybody gains. There is international end of 2012. Members may not be aware that 5% of evidence to support the existence of all these benefits. jobseeker’s allowance claimants are sanctioned every month I launched an Oldham fairness commission last year, for at least a month. Half of them do not even know to tackle inequality in my constituency.The commissioners they can appeal against that, let alone that they have to are looking at inequalities in education, employment keep signing on to remain on the unemployment register. and income. We find it unacceptable that, in this day Five per cent. of 1.17 million JSA claimants equates to and age, someone who is white, able bodied and male is 58,500 people; we can get the picture from that. more likely to be in work than someone else with the A constituent came to see me who was a special needs same qualifications, and that a third of the jobs available teacher who had been made redundant in his late 50s. It in Oldham are paid below a living wage. That is not the had been suggested to him that he became a bingo way in which to achieve a sustainable economic recovery. caller, but he had to travel 70 miles to do that. There is real deskilling of a skilled work force, along with graduates 5.30 pm undertaking non-graduate-level jobs. My hon. Friend If we address inequalities and the gap between the mentioned the 900,000 young people who are long-term rich and the poor, our economy will benefit. Overwhelming unemployed. A recent report talked about a hidden evidence from the International Monetary Fund and talent pool of young people. A total of 2.46 million—two Nobel prize-winning economists such as Joseph Stiglitz in five—young people are unemployed, inactive, shows that inequality causes financial instability, undermines underemployed, in a voluntary job, in a Government productivity and retards growth. scheme, or a graduate in a non-graduate role. It may be New clause 5, which seeks to publish the receipts described as hidden talent, but I would call it a waste of from the existing bank levy scheme, would help to show talent. exactly how much we are contributing to narrowing the As I have said before, the impact on these young gap between the rich and the poor. We believe that it people cannot be measured only in financial terms. The will show, yet again, the Government’s lack of commitment. long-term implications for their future are very significant. They are not just indifferent; they are propping up the A recent report by the Prince’s Trust showed that one in status quo. 10, or 100,000, unemployed young people believe they Our jobs guarantee will give hope and opportunity to have nothing to live for, and that increases to one in five young people and those aged 25 and over who have of those who have been long-term— been unemployed for more than two years, whom this Government have clearly abandoned. We will work for Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): My hon. a one-nation Britain, not the two Britains we are enduring Friend is a respected member of the Work and Pensions under this Government. Committee, so is she aware, as I am, that the DWP published its own report on the future jobs fund showing Alison McGovern rose— that it did tackle some of the crisis of self-respect and self-esteem that she is talking about? The Temporary Chair (Mr Peter Bone): Order. It would be helpful if the Minister was on his feet no later Debbie Abrahams: My hon. Friend makes an excellent than 5.50 pm. point. Yes, we need to be very clear about the interventions Alison McGovern: I want to discuss the relationship and programmes that can make a meaningful difference. between how the banks and bank bonuses are taxed and I am sure that what we are suggesting in place of the young people. I think that anyone who has just listened youth contract, which is clearly ineffective, would fit the to the speech by my hon. Friend the Member for bill. Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) would The report said that one in five young people who agree that the two issues are intimately connected, even were long-term unemployed felt that they had nothing if they did not believe that to be the case in the past. worth living for, and one in three felt suicidal. There is a Levels of inequality in our global economy are moral imperative to act, not just an economic one. We unsustainable, but Members need not take just my word cannot continue like this—it is completely unfair on the for that. It is not just me who thinks that inequality is a lives of these young people, in particular. significant problem: no less than Christine Lagarde of All this is happening at the same time as the top rate the IMF has said that inequality is a huge challenge and of tax has been cut for people on incomes of more than a risk for the world’s future. If even the IMF, which is £150,000. As we have heard, bank bonuses are increasing not known for taking lefty positions, is able to conclude again. Top-to-bottom pay ratios for the FTSE 100 that we must tackle inequality, I think that this House stand at 300:1. We look at this in the context of the should be able to accept the challenge and seek to find average family really struggling, with wages down by ways to address the significant inequality in our own £1,600. The IFS has shown that since 2010 the average country. family has lost income of £974 a year. The top of the economy in the financial services The recent Oxfam report, “A Tale of Two Britains”, sector is fragile in terms of income distribution. Let me highlighted the growing gap between rich and poor, make a few remarks about the banks. The hon. Member whereby the five richest families in the UK are wealthier for Warrington South (David Mowat), who, unfortunately, 345 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 346

[Alison McGovern] I remind hon. Members of Martin Wheatley’s recent comments: is no longer in his place, commented earlier on the issue “Incentives are used ideally to reward ‘good’ performance. of fixed versus variable income, which I will turn to However, as we saw with the mis-selling scandals which have had later. Surely anybody who is trying to learn the lessons such a profound impact on financial services…a poorly designed of 2008 would say that the financial services sector still inducement can result in consumers ultimately being worse off.” has an unsustainable bonus culture and perhaps that is true of other parts of the economy as well. Even if we were not worried about the impact on the Exchequer of the bank bonus culture—given the Would not anybody who worries about that risk responsibility to ensure that the financial system can conclude that banks and the financial services sector continue to do business no matter what—we should rely on an implicit state guarantee, given what had to be absolutely be concerned about the impact on consumers. done to ensure the economy kept working and people In the past, consumers of financial services often had a could still take cash out of ATMs? Would not anybody poor deal. The mis-selling of endowments and, more conclude that we must take very seriously the contribution recently, payment protection insurance caused massive to taxation that banks are expected to make, given the problems for families in our country. We cannot allow a Government’s reliance on the financial services sector? I culture to persist in which there are incentives that, as certainly think that that is the only obvious conclusion Martin Wheatley said, may result in consumers ultimately to draw from the global financial meltdown and the being worse off, as that would be very dangerous. That serious failures of the past. Banks cannot be allowed is why our amendment probes the issue and seeks to just to make their own decisions; we must take very find a way to consider whether more could be done, seriously both the regulatory framework around the which is important. financial services sector and the contribution that the sector is expected to make to the Exchequer. Although I am the first to say that simply bashing The corporation tax cut benefited a whole range of one part of our economy—financial services—is not companies in the financial services sector, but small and the approach we should take, far from it, it does not mean medium-sized enterprises—especially those in my that inequality is not a serious issue. I do not think that constituency that are struggling with, and wanting action the inequalities in the financial services sector will pass on, business rates—find it hard to take or to understand by the people who earn the minimum wage cleaning a why the Government have not looked more seriously at local bank branch and who are worried about whether what banks are expected to pay to the Exchequer. I that branch will be there for much longer or those who, think the Exchequer Secretary said earlier that, by his if they are lucky, earn the London living wage from calculation, the bank levy has brought in a net £2.3 billion. working in security or in other ways supporting banks in the City of London. We must address that inequality Mr Gauke: That is the payroll tax. for people who work in banking and in the financial services sector. Alison McGovern: For the purposes of Hansard,I thank the Minister for correcting me from a sedentary Finally, I will follow up on the remarks on young position. In any event, it is really evident that the bank people made so ably by my hon. Friend the Member for levy is not good enough. We heard repeated claims Oldham East and Saddleworth. We cannot lose sight of about how much it would bring in, but it has failed to the difference between a jobs guarantee and work reach those levels. The public do not understand why experience. We learned that lesson in the 1980s, when that is, and they want us to take very seriously the youth training scheme-style programmes were a revolving position of the financial services sector, given the impact door for young people, who went in and out of businesses that we all felt and that people are still feeling from the with no proper jobs. That was not fair then, and it events post-2008. certainly is not fair now. The future jobs fund worked To turn briefly to bonuses, I think that bank bonuses with organisations such as Age Concern and other are the best representation of the culture that led to the good third-sector organisations in my constituency to economic meltdown in 2008. A great deal of work on provide work opportunities that often led not only to the culture has been done by Members of this House—I growth in a young person’s skills, talents, self-esteem am thinking of my right hon. Friend the Member for and self-respect but to growth in the organisations Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) and others themselves. who served on the Banking Commission—and we do I point Members in the direction of a report by the that work no service if we give up the idea of a bank International Labour Organisation from as long ago as bonus tax. 2010 that compared a range of interventions for young The problem with bank bonuses is the clear connection people without work. The report said that the last between the fact that compensation balloons so greatly, Labour Government had a huge amount of which to be and depends on a big bonus at a certain point in the proud, such as the new deal for young people, the future year, and extraordinary risk-taking. A kind of groupthink jobs fund and the efforts to get people into work. I develops in an organisation, with people forgetting their believe absolutely that we cannot offer young people responsibilities to those outside it. The insider culture only interminable work experience in which they turn accepts reimbursements that are far and away above up to the jobcentre week after week to be sent on CV anything that people in society ordinarily expect. We in writing courses or to gain work experience that does not this House, if nowhere else in our community, should get them a proper foot in the door. We need a true jobs understand the danger of such groupthink. Have we guarantee so that people know that, however difficult not all seen it at times, and do we not all want to end it? the circumstances in which they find themselves, the Therefore, we should not give up the idea of a bank situation will come to an end. We need to offer young bonus tax. people that guarantee, and of course we would expect 347 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 348 them to take it up without much choice—[Interruption.] I am extraordinarily happy that we have better growth If Members wish to intervene, they are welcome to figures. They will create momentum and help get investment do so. into our country, which is good. However, in the end, We still have insufficient numbers of apprenticeships, economic growth is good only if it means that young and we have genuine worries about the quality of some people have a real chance in our country. I believe that apprenticeship programmes. I am sorry if I repeat this only Labour’s jobs proposal for young people will resolve so often that I bore Members—I try not to bore the terrible situation that we face. Members—but the issue is vastly important. The prevalence of zero-hours contracts in our society affects young Mr Gauke: It is a great pleasure to serve under your people more than anyone else. Young people are much chairmanship, Mr Bone, and to respond to this debate. more likely to have less experience, which means that It is always a pleasure to hear the hon. Member for they cannot get a proper full-time, permanent job with Wirral South (Alison McGovern) speak. I am tempted the hours that they want. Of course students might to respond to her characterisation of the labour market, want flexible hours that they can take up when they which almost suggested that we had lost 1.3 million want, but that is not the case for many young people people from employment over the past four years, rather across the country who feel that they have no alternative than increased employment by 1.3 million people, but but to accept a zero-hours contract. in the interests of time, I will focus on the bank levy. I am afraid that Conservative Members have swallowed the Treasury’s rhetoric about the number of jobs that Clause 112 increases the rate of the bank levy that have been created and the claimant count, without was set for 1 January 2014 to 0.156%, which will help to learning the lessons of their economic policies of the ensure that future bank levy receipts meet the Government past. Of course the claimant count will fall if there is a targets. I also want to highlight the changes that we are sanctions regime that makes going to the jobcentre so making to the bank levy’s design following an operational difficult and unhelpful that people will do anything not review in 2013, which we will cover when we debate to claim. clause 113 and schedule 22 later in Committee. The changes will help to simplify the bank levy’s design and 5.45 pm ensure that it continues to complement improvements in the regulatory regime. I worry about the people who are totally disengaged from the system and about those who are engaged in the I wish briefly to provide hon. Members with some system, but who feel so unsupported that they are background. In the June 2010 Budget, the Government compelled to take jobs that are insecure and that do not introduced a permanent tax on banks’ balance sheet provide the hours that they want. Since I started the equity and liabilities, which took effect from 1 January zero-hours contract campaign, countless people have 2011. It is designed to ensure that the banking sector got in touch with me to say that they have taken a job makes a fair contribution that reflects its risks to the on the basis that there would be 30 or 40 hours a week, UK financial system and the wider economy. Alongside but that it turned out there were 10 or 12 hours a week. wider regulatory reform, the bank levy also provides That under-employment is showing itself in the difficulties incentives for banks to move towards more stable funding that small businesses are facing on high streets up and profiles, reducing the likelihood of liquidity shocks, down the country. which can trigger and propagate systemic banking crises. The Government believe that those overarching policy I could talk at length about the insufficiencies of the objectives remain appropriate, and the changes being Work programme. It causes problems to have such huge made in clauses 112 and 113 and schedule 22 are in line contracts and not to tailor the programme properly to with that. the local area. Again, there are lessons to be learned from the past. We need to work with other organisations. In 2010, the Government set a target of £2.5 billion For example, before the Work programme, the football for annual bank levy receipts. We have since increased clubs in my area had good working relationships with that target to offset the benefit of corporation tax cuts the local jobcentre and had schemes that were really to the banking sector since the levy’s introduction. working to get people’s confidence up, get them the Bank levy receipts have fallen short of the targets to right skills and get them into jobs. The Work programme date, largely as a consequence of greater than anticipated swept all those arrangements away. We have seen no deleveraging in the sector in response to regulation and evidence of the claim that Ministers made before the the bank levy’s behavioural incentives. However, the Work programme started that small, specialist organisations Government have remained clear that the target for would still be involved in back-to-work programmes. bank levy receipts is unchanged. That has not happened in the way they said it would. The banking sector needs to make a fair contribution That is a big problem, given how unemployment clusters. that appropriately reflects its historical costs and future We must look at what is going on in our country. The risks to the UK taxpayer. That is why the rate of the north-east is suffering desperately from unemployment bank levy has increased from 0.075% in 2011 to 0.142% in and under-employment. A careful, tailored approach is January 2014, and why the changes being made in needed. That could be led by jobcentres if they were clause 112, which were announced in the 2013 autumn freed from the ministerial diktats from the centre and statement, will further increase the rate to 0.156%, were able to use their expertise to work with young which will be treated as having applied from January people to get them into the labour market with proper 2014. Based on those changes, the independent Office jobs, thereby starting the endogenous growth in our for Budget Responsibility forecasts that the bank levy economy that we so desperately need. will raise £2.9 billion a year from 2015-16, more than We must not lose sight of the plight of young people £8 billion in total over the Parliament and close to when there are, on the face of it, better growth figures. £20 billion in total by 2018-19. 349 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 350

[Mr Gauke] which is that the Government do not consider that there is much to be achieved by accepting it. It would add When the bank levy was introduced, the Government little to the Bill. HMRC already publishes each year announced that they would review its design in 2013 to statistics on PAYE, the bank levy, corporation tax and ensure that it was operating efficiently. In line with that bank payroll tax receipts from the banking sector, although commitment, a formal consultation was published in they are not broken down by different groups of banks. July 2013. It considered changes to the levy’s detailed The most recent publication—from August 2013—showed design to make it simpler, fairer and more aligned with that the relevant tax receipts from the banking sector recent regulatory developments. The consultation ran were £21.7 billion in 2012-13. for 12 weeks and the views put forward helped to In the time available, I want to make a point about inform a number of changes to the bank levy’s design, the bankers payroll tax. In September 2010, the right which the Government announced in the autumn statement. hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling), They included the exclusion from the bank levy charge the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, said of protected deposits, which we limited to amounts “it will be a one-off thing because, frankly, the very people you insured under a deposit protection scheme, with effect are after here are very good at getting out of these things from January 2015. and…will find all sorts of imaginative ways of avoiding it in the Also from January 2015, all derivative contracts will future”. be treated as having a short-term maturity, the relief An attempt to repeat that tax would be a mistake. that banks receive for their high-quality liquid assets will be restricted to the rate applicable to long-term I fear that, because of the time available, I do not liabilities, and the bank levy definition of tier 1 capital have time to do justice to Opposition new clause 5. I will be aligned with the new capital requirements directive. have set out the reasons why the Government believe it Specific liabilities arising from the central clearing of is right to introduce a balance sheet tax as opposed to a derivatives will be excluded from the bank levy charge, tax on bankers bonuses. We see no reason to change which will be treated as having applied from January that approach. The future jobs fund failed to create 2014. Those changes will simplify the levy’s application sustainable employment. Almost 50% of participants and help to ensure that it continues to apply consistently claimed benefits again within eight months of starting a to banks of different size, activity and domicile. They future jobs fund job. This Government are doing much will also strengthen the behavioural incentives for banks more. We have delivered more than 1.6 million to move towards more stable funding profiles and more apprenticeship starts so far this Parliament and are closely align the bank levy with recent developments in making it cheaper to employ young people. the regulatory regime. In order to give the hon. Member for Kilmarnock The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun and Loudoun a moment or so to speak at the end, I (Cathy Jamieson) touched upon the redesign of the shall conclude. The changes made by clauses 112 and bank levy. There is no intention to reduce the revenue 113, and schedule 22, will help to ensure that future raised by the bank levy. We are considering allocating bank levy receipts meet Government targets while providing banks to different bands on the basis of their balance a simpler and fairer basis on which the tax applies. I sheet, equity and liabilities. Each band would correspond therefore hope that clause 112 stands part of the Bill with a unique and predetermined charge for the year, and urge the hon. Lady not to press amendment 1 and paid by every bank falling within that band. We consider new clause 5 to a Division. that that might provide a more predictable and sustainable model for the bank levy, but we are welcoming views on Cathy Jamieson: It was a pleasure to hear the valuable that as part of our consultation. The changes being contributions of my hon. Friends the Members for considered would have no impact on the forecast yield Wirral South (Alison McGovern) and for Oldham East from the bank levy, and the underlying tax base would and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) on the impact of remain unchanged and continue to provide incentives the Government’s policies on ordinary people. for banks to move towards more stable funding. The Minister referred to my characteristic reasonableness Cathy Jamieson rose— and gave a characteristic response. I will give him the characteristic response from the Opposition—despite Mr Gauke: I will give way, but I have very little time his best efforts, I will press the new clause and the left. amendment to a Division. Both reports are reasonable requests and would be important. I realise that he had a Cathy Jamieson: I thank the Minister for giving way—I relatively short period in which to respond, but it is appreciate it given the limit on his time. Will he confirm disappointing that he does not see fit to produce such that his proposal will mean that some of the bigger reports. He referred to a number of statistics and figures banks will pay less in bank levy than they have paid produced by HMRC, and we know of other places previously? where statistics are produced, such as the Office for Mr Gauke: The Government are consulting on how Budget Responsibility. It would be useful to have all the measure will operate. The intention is for it to be those reports put together in a report for the House to revenue neutral. Assuming it has some effect, revenue consider. neutral will mean that some banks will pay more and As I have said, I intend to press new clause 5 and some will pay less. Which ones those will be depends on amendment 1 to a Division. I hope that, even at this late the precise design, which depends on the consultation. stage, the Minister will reconsider his opinion, but I Amendment 1 was described with customary doubt it. I am sure that the Government will give their reasonableness by the hon. Member for Kilmarnock characteristic response once again. and Loudoun but I will give the customary response, Question put, That the clause be read a Second time. 351 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 352

The House divided: Ayes 219, Noes 293. McDonagh, Siobhain Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Division No. 251] [5.59 pm McDonald, Andy Sawford, Andy McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Seabeck, Alison McDonnell, John Shannon, Jim AYES McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sharma, Mr Virendra Abbott, Ms Diane Ellman, Mrs Louise McGovern, Alison Sheerman, Mr Barry Abrahams, Debbie Engel, Natascha McGovern, Jim Shuker, Gavin Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Esterson, Bill McKechin, Ann Skinner, Mr Dennis Alexander, Heidi Evans, Chris McKenzie, Mr Iain Slaughter, Mr Andy Ali, Rushanara Farrelly, Paul McKinnell, Catherine Smith, rh Mr Andrew Allen, Mr Graham Field, rh Mr Frank Meacher, rh Mr Michael Smith, Angela Ashworth, Jonathan Fitzpatrick, Jim Mearns, Ian Smith, Nick Bailey, Mr Adrian Flello, Robert Miller, Andrew Smith, Owen Bain, Mr William Flynn, Paul Mitchell, Austin Spellar, rh Mr John Balls, rh Ed Fovargue, Yvonne Moon, Mrs Madeleine Straw, rh Mr Jack Barron, rh Kevin Gapes, Mike Morden, Jessica Stringer, Graham Bayley, Hugh Gardiner, Barry Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Stuart, Ms Gisela Begg, Dame Anne Gilmore, Sheila Morris, Grahame M. Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Benn, rh Hilary Glass, Pat (Easington) Tami, Mark Berger, Luciana Glindon, Mrs Mary Munn, Meg Thomas, Mr Gareth Betts, Mr Clive Godsiff, Mr Roger Murphy, rh Mr Jim Thornberry, Emily Blackman-Woods, Roberta Goodman, Helen Murphy, rh Paul Timms, rh Stephen Blenkinsop, Tom Greatrex, Tom Murray, Ian Turner, Karl Blomfield, Paul Green, Kate Nash, Pamela Twigg, Derek Blunkett, rh Mr David Hain, rh Mr Peter O’Donnell, Fiona Umunna, Mr Chuka Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hamilton, Mr David Onwurah, Chi Vaz, rh Keith Brennan, Kevin Hamilton, Fabian Owen, Albert Vaz, Valerie Brown, Lyn Hanson, rh Mr David Paisley, Ian Walley, Joan Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Healey, rh John Perkins, Toby Watson, Mr Tom Brown, Mr Russell Hendrick, Mark Phillipson, Bridget Weir, Mr Mike Bryant, Chris Hepburn, Mr Stephen Powell, Lucy Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Buck, Ms Karen Heyes, David Qureshi, Yasmin Whitehead, Dr Alan Burden, Richard Hillier, Meg Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Williams, Hywel Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hilling, Julie Reed, Mr Jamie Williamson, Chris Campbell, rh Mr Alan Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Reed, Mr Steve Winnick, Mr David Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hoey, Kate Reeves, Rachel Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Champion, Sarah Hopkins, Kelvin Reynolds, Emma Wishart, Pete Chapman, Jenny Howarth, rh Mr George Reynolds, Jonathan Woodcock, John Clarke, rh Mr Tom Irranca-Davies, Huw Riordan, Mrs Linda Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Clwyd, rh Ann Jackson, Glenda Robertson, Angus Wright, David Coaker, Vernon James, Mrs Siân C. Robertson, John Wright, Mr Iain Coffey, Ann Jamieson, Cathy Rotheram, Steve Connarty, Michael Jarvis, Dan Roy, Mr Frank Tellers for the Ayes: Cooper, Rosie Johnson, rh Alan Roy, Lindsay Nic Dakin and Cooper, rh Yvette Johnson, Diana Ruane, Chris Phil Wilson Corbyn, Jeremy Jones, Graham Creagh, Mary Jones, Helen NOES Creasy, Stella Jones, Mr Kevan Cruddas, Jon Jones, Susan Elan Adams, Nigel Bottomley, Sir Peter Cunningham, Alex Kane, Mike Afriyie, Adam Bradley, Karen Cunningham, Mr Jim Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Aldous, Peter Brady, Mr Graham Curran, Margaret Keeley, Barbara Alexander, rh Danny Brake, rh Tom Danczuk, Simon Khan, rh Sadiq Andrew, Stuart Bray, Angie David, Wayne Lammy, rh Mr David Bacon, Mr Richard Brazier, Mr Julian Davidson, Mr Ian Lavery, Ian Baker, Steve Bridgen, Andrew De Piero, Gloria Lazarowicz, Mark Baldry, rh Sir Tony Brine, Steve Denham, rh Mr John Leslie, Chris Baldwin, Harriett Brokenshire, James Docherty, Thomas Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Barclay, Stephen Browne, Mr Jeremy Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Baron, Mr John Bruce, Fiona Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Long, Naomi Barwell, Gavin Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Doran, Mr Frank Love, Mr Andrew Bebb, Guto Buckland, Mr Robert Doughty, Stephen Lucas, Caroline Beith, rh Sir Alan Burley, Mr Aidan Dowd, Jim Lucas, Ian Bellingham, Mr Henry Burns, rh Mr Simon Doyle, Gemma MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Benyon, Richard Burrowes, Mr David Dromey, Jack Mahmood, Shabana Beresford, Sir Paul Burstow, rh Paul Dugher, Michael Malhotra, Seema Berry, Jake Burt, rh Alistair Durkan, Mark Mann, John Bingham, Andrew Byles, Dan Eagle, Ms Angela Marsden, Mr Gordon Birtwistle, Gordon Cable, rh Vince Eagle, Maria McCabe, Steve Blackman, Bob Cairns, Alun Edwards, Jonathan McCann, Mr Michael Blackwood, Nicola Carmichael, Neil Efford, Clive McCarthy, Kerry Blunt, Crispin Carswell, Mr Douglas Elliott, Julie McClymont, Gregg Boles, Nick Cash, Mr William 353 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 354

Chishti, Rehman Hayes, rh Mr John Neill, Robert Soubry, Anna Clark, rh Greg Heath, Mr David Newmark, Mr Brooks Stanley, rh Sir John Coffey, Dr Thérèse Heaton-Harris, Chris Newton, Sarah Stevenson, John Collins, Damian Hemming, John Nokes, Caroline Stewart, Bob Colvile, Oliver Henderson, Gordon Norman, Jesse Stewart, Iain Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hendry, Charles Nuttall, Mr David Stride, Mel Crabb, Stephen Herbert, rh Nick O’Brien, rh Mr Stephen Stuart, Mr Graham Crockart, Mike Hinds, Damian Offord, Dr Matthew Stunell, rh Sir Andrew Crouch, Tracey Hoban, Mr Mark Ollerenshaw, Eric Sturdy, Julian Davey, rh Mr Edward Hollobone, Mr Philip Opperman, Guy Swales, Ian Davies, Glyn Holloway, Mr Adam Ottaway, rh Sir Richard Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Davies, Philip Hopkins, Kris Patel, Priti Swire, rh Mr Hugo Davis, rh Mr David Horwood, Martin Paterson, rh Mr Owen Syms, Mr Robert de Bois, Nick Howarth, Sir Gerald Penning, rh Mike Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Dinenage, Caroline Howell, John Penrose, John Teather, Sarah Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hughes, rh Simon Phillips, Stephen Thornton, Mike Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Pickles, rh Mr Eric Timpson, Mr Edward Dorries, Nadine Hurd, Mr Nick Pincher, Christopher Tomlinson, Justin Doyle-Price, Jackie Jackson, Mr Stewart Poulter, Dr Daniel Tredinnick, David Drax, Richard James, Margot Pritchard, Mark Truss, Elizabeth Duddridge, James Johnson, Gareth Pugh, John Turner, Mr Andrew Duncan, rh Mr Alan Johnson, Joseph Raab, Mr Dominic Tyrie, Mr Andrew Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Jones, Andrew Randall, rh Sir John Uppal, Paul Dunne, Mr Philip Jones, rh Mr David Reckless, Mark Vara, Mr Shailesh Ellis, Michael Jones, Mr Marcus Redwood, rh Mr John Vickers, Martin Ellison, Jane Kawczynski, Daniel Rees-Mogg, Jacob Walker, Mr Charles Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kelly, Chris Reevell, Simon Walker, Mr Robin Elphicke, Charlie Kirby, Simon Reid, Mr Alan Wallace, Mr Ben Eustice, George Knight, rh Sir Greg Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Ward, Mr David Evans, Graham Kwarteng, Kwasi Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Watkinson, Dame Angela Evans, Jonathan Lamb, Norman Robertson, rh Hugh Evennett, Mr David Lancaster, Mark Rogerson, Dan Weatherley, Mike Fabricant, Michael Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Rosindell, Andrew Wharton, James Fallon, rh Michael Laws, rh Mr David Rudd, Amber Wheeler, Heather Featherstone, Lynne Leadsom, Andrea Ruffley, Mr David White, Chris Field, Mark Lee, Jessica Russell, Sir Bob Whittaker, Craig Foster, rh Mr Don Lee, Dr Phillip Rutley, David Whittingdale, Mr John Fox,rhDrLiam Leech, Mr John Sanders, Mr Adrian Wiggin, Bill Francois, rh Mr Mark Lefroy, Jeremy Sandys, Laura Willetts, rh Mr David Freeman, George Leigh, Sir Edward Scott, Mr Lee Williams, Mr Mark Freer, Mike Leslie, Charlotte Selous, Andrew Williams, Roger Fullbrook, Lorraine Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Shapps, rh Grant Williamson, Gavin Fuller, Richard Lewis, Brandon Sharma, Alok Willott, Jenny Garnier, Sir Edward Lewis, Dr Julian Shelbrooke, Alec Wilson, Mr Rob Garnier, Mark Lilley, rh Mr Peter Shepherd, Sir Richard Wollaston, Dr Sarah Gauke, Mr David Lloyd, Stephen Simmonds, Mark Wright, Jeremy George, Andrew Lopresti, Jack Simpson, Mr Keith Wright, Simon Gibb, Mr Nick Loughton, Tim Skidmore, Chris Yeo, Mr Tim Gilbert, Stephen Lumley, Karen Smith, Chloe Young, rh Sir George Glen, John Macleod, Mary Smith, Henry Goldsmith, Zac Maynard, Paul Smith, Julian Tellers for the Noes: Gove, rh Michael McCartney, Jason Smith, Sir Robert Mark Hunter and Graham, Richard McCartney, Karl Soames, rh Nicholas Claire Perry Grant, Mrs Helen McIntosh, Miss Anne Gray, Mr James McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Question accordingly negatived. Grayling, rh Chris McPartland, Stephen Green, rh Damian McVey, rh Esther 6.13 pm Greening, rh Justine Menzies, Mark Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Metcalfe, Stephen Proceedings interrupted (Programme Order, 1 April). Griffiths, Andrew Mills, Nigel The Chair put forthwith the Questions necessary for the Gummer, Ben Milton, Anne disposal of the business to be concluded at that time Halfon, Robert Moore, rh Michael (Standing Order No. 83D). Hames, Duncan Mordaunt, Penny Hammond, Stephen Morgan, Nicky Clause 112 Hancock, Matthew Morris, Anne Marie Hands, rh Greg Morris, James BANK LEVY: RATES FROM 1JANUARY 2014 Harper, Mr Mark Mosley, Stephen Amendment proposed: 1, in clause 112, page 94, line 1, at Harrington, Richard Mowat, David beginning insert— Harris, Rebecca Mulholland, Greg ‘(1) Before bringing forward any further reform of the bank Hart, Simon Munt, Tessa levy rates system, the Chancellor shall lay before Parliament a Harvey, Sir Nick Murray, Sheryll report considering the impact on the total receipts paid to the Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Murrison, Dr Andrew Exchequer since 2010 by— 355 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 356

(a) UK banking groups; Jones, Helen Raynsford, rh Mr Nick (b) building society groups; Jones, Mr Kevan Reed, Mr Jamie (c) foreign banking groups; and Jones, Susan Elan Reed, Mr Steve Kane, Mike Reeves, Rachel (d) relevant non-banking groups. Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Reynolds, Emma (2) The report will pay particular attention to receipts from— Keeley, Barbara Reynolds, Jonathan (a) corporation tax; Khan, rh Sadiq Riordan, Mrs Linda (b) the bank levy; and Lammy, rh Mr David Robertson, Angus (c) bank payroll tax. Lavery, Ian Robertson, John Lazarowicz, Mark Rotheram, Steve (3) A copy of the report in subsections (1) and (2) shall be laid before Parliament.’.—(Cathy Jamieson.) Leslie, Chris Roy, Mr Frank Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Roy, Lindsay Question put, That the amendment be made. Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Ruane, Chris The Committee divided: Ayes 217, Noes 286. Long, Naomi Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Love, Mr Andrew Sawford, Andy Division No. 252] [6.13 pm Lucas, Caroline Seabeck, Alison Lucas, Ian Shannon, Jim AYES MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Sharma, Mr Virendra Abbott, Ms Diane Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Mahmood, Shabana Sheerman, Mr Barry Abrahams, Debbie Doran, Mr Frank Mann, John Shuker, Gavin Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Doughty, Stephen Marsden, Mr Gordon Skinner, Mr Dennis Alexander, Heidi Dowd, Jim McCabe, Steve Slaughter, Mr Andy Ali, Rushanara Doyle, Gemma McCann, Mr Michael Smith, rh Mr Andrew Allen, Mr Graham Dromey, Jack McCarthy, Kerry Smith, Nick Ashworth, Jonathan Dugher, Michael McClymont, Gregg Smith, Owen Bailey, Mr Adrian Durkan, Mark McDonagh, Siobhain Spellar, rh Mr John Bain, Mr William Eagle, Ms Angela McDonald, Andy Straw, rh Mr Jack Balls, rh Ed Eagle, Maria McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Stringer, Graham Barron, rh Kevin Edwards, Jonathan McDonnell, John Stuart, Ms Gisela Bayley, Hugh Efford, Clive McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Begg, Dame Anne Elliott, Julie McGovern, Alison Tami, Mark Benn, rh Hilary Ellman, Mrs Louise McGovern, Jim Thomas, Mr Gareth Berger, Luciana Engel, Natascha McKechin, Ann Thornberry, Emily Betts, Mr Clive Esterson, Bill McKenzie, Mr Iain Timms, rh Stephen Blackman-Woods, Roberta Evans, Chris McKinnell, Catherine Turner, Karl Blenkinsop, Tom Farrelly, Paul Meacher, rh Mr Michael Twigg, Derek Blomfield, Paul Field, rh Mr Frank Mearns, Ian Umunna, Mr Chuka Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Fitzpatrick, Jim Miller, Andrew Vaz, rh Keith Brennan, Kevin Flello, Robert Mitchell, Austin Vaz, Valerie Brown, Lyn Flynn, Paul Moon, Mrs Madeleine Walley, Joan Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Fovargue, Yvonne Morden, Jessica Watson, Mr Tom Brown, Mr Russell Gapes, Mike Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Weir, Mr Mike Bryant, Chris Gardiner, Barry Morris, Grahame M. Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Buck, Ms Karen Gilmore, Sheila (Easington) Whitehead, Dr Alan Burden, Richard Glass, Pat Munn, Meg Williams, Hywel Byrne, rh Mr Liam Glindon, Mrs Mary Murphy, rh Mr Jim Williamson, Chris Campbell, rh Mr Alan Godsiff, Mr Roger Murphy, rh Paul Winnick, Mr David Campbell, Mr Ronnie Goodman, Helen Murray, Ian Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Champion, Sarah Greatrex, Tom Nash, Pamela Wishart, Pete Chapman, Jenny Green, Kate O’Donnell, Fiona Woodcock, John Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hain, rh Mr Peter Onwurah, Chi Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Owen, Albert Clwyd, rh Ann Hamilton, Mr David Wright, David Paisley, Ian Coaker, Vernon Hamilton, Fabian Wright, Mr Iain Coffey, Ann Hanson, rh Mr David Perkins, Toby Connarty, Michael Healey, rh John Phillipson, Bridget Tellers for the Ayes: Cooper, Rosie Hendrick, Mark Powell, Lucy Phil Wilson and Cooper, rh Yvette Hepburn, Mr Stephen Qureshi, Yasmin Seema Malhotra Corbyn, Jeremy Heyes, David Creagh, Mary Hillier, Meg NOES Creasy, Stella Hilling, Julie Cruddas, Jon Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Adams, Nigel Beith, rh Sir Alan Cunningham, Alex Hoey, Kate Afriyie, Adam Bellingham, Mr Henry Cunningham, Mr Jim Hopkins, Kelvin Aldous, Peter Benyon, Richard Curran, Margaret Howarth, rh Mr George Alexander, rh Danny Beresford, Sir Paul Dakin, Nic Irranca-Davies, Huw Andrew, Stuart Berry, Jake Danczuk, Simon Jackson, Glenda Baker, Steve Bingham, Andrew David, Wayne James, Mrs Siân C. Baldry, rh Sir Tony Birtwistle, Gordon Davidson, Mr Ian Jamieson, Cathy Baldwin, Harriett Blackman, Bob De Piero, Gloria Jarvis, Dan Barclay, Stephen Blackwood, Nicola Denham, rh Mr John Johnson, rh Alan Baron, Mr John Blunt, Crispin Docherty, Thomas Johnson, Diana Barwell, Gavin Boles, Nick Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Jones, Graham Bebb, Guto Bottomley, Sir Peter 357 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 358

Bradley, Karen Gove, rh Michael McIntosh, Miss Anne Shelbrooke, Alec Brady, Mr Graham Graham, Richard McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Shepherd, Sir Richard Brake, rh Tom Grant, Mrs Helen McPartland, Stephen Simmonds, Mark Bray, Angie Gray, Mr James McVey, rh Esther Simpson, Mr Keith Brazier, Mr Julian Grayling, rh Chris Menzies, Mark Skidmore, Chris Bridgen, Andrew Green, rh Damian Metcalfe, Stephen Smith, Chloe Brine, Steve Greening, rh Justine Mills, Nigel Smith, Henry Brokenshire, James Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Milton, Anne Smith, Julian Browne, Mr Jeremy Griffiths, Andrew Moore, rh Michael Smith, Sir Robert Bruce, Fiona Gummer, Ben Mordaunt, Penny Soames, rh Nicholas Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Halfon, Robert Morgan, Nicky Soubry, Anna Buckland, Mr Robert Hames, Duncan Morris, Anne Marie Stanley, rh Sir John Burley, Mr Aidan Hammond, Stephen Morris, James Stevenson, John Burns, rh Mr Simon Hancock, Matthew Mosley, Stephen Stewart, Bob Burrowes, Mr David Hands, rh Greg Mowat, David Stewart, Iain Burstow, rh Paul Harper, Mr Mark Mulholland, Greg Stride, Mel Burt, rh Alistair Harrington, Richard Munt, Tessa Stuart, Mr Graham Byles, Dan Harris, Rebecca Murray, Sheryll Stunell, rh Sir Andrew Cable, rh Vince Hart, Simon Murrison, Dr Andrew Sturdy, Julian Cairns, Alun Harvey, Sir Nick Neill, Robert Swales, Ian Carmichael, Neil Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Newmark, Mr Brooks Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Carswell, Mr Douglas Hayes, rh Mr John Newton, Sarah Swire, rh Mr Hugo Cash, Mr William Heath, Mr David Nokes, Caroline Syms, Mr Robert Chishti, Rehman Heaton-Harris, Chris Norman, Jesse Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Clark, rh Greg Hemming, John Nuttall, Mr David Teather, Sarah Coffey, Dr Thérèse Henderson, Gordon O’Brien, rh Mr Stephen Thornton, Mike Collins, Damian Hendry, Charles Offord, Dr Matthew Timpson, Mr Edward Colvile, Oliver Herbert, rh Nick Ollerenshaw, Eric Tomlinson, Justin Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hinds, Damian Opperman, Guy Tredinnick, David Crabb, Stephen Hoban, Mr Mark Ottaway, rh Sir Richard Truss, Elizabeth Crockart, Mike Hollobone, Mr Philip Patel, Priti Turner, Mr Andrew Crouch, Tracey Holloway, Mr Adam Paterson, rh Mr Owen Tyrie, Mr Andrew Davey, rh Mr Edward Hopkins, Kris Penning, rh Mike Uppal, Paul Davies, Glyn Horwood, Martin Penrose, John Vara, Mr Shailesh Davies, Philip Howarth, Sir Gerald Phillips, Stephen Vickers, Martin Davis, rh Mr David Howell, John Pickles, rh Mr Eric Walker, Mr Charles Dinenage, Caroline Hughes, rh Simon Pincher, Christopher Walker, Mr Robin Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Poulter, Dr Daniel Ward, Mr David Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Hurd, Mr Nick Pritchard, Mark Watkinson, Dame Angela Dorries, Nadine James, Margot Pugh, John Weatherley, Mike Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Gareth Raab, Mr Dominic Wharton, James Drax, Richard Johnson, Joseph Randall, rh Sir John Wheeler, Heather Duddridge, James Jones, Andrew Reckless, Mark White, Chris Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, rh Mr David Redwood, rh Mr John Whittaker, Craig Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Jones, Mr Marcus Rees-Mogg, Jacob Whittingdale, Mr John Dunne, Mr Philip Kawczynski, Daniel Reevell, Simon Wiggin, Bill Ellis, Michael Kelly, Chris Reid, Mr Alan Willetts, rh Mr David Ellison, Jane Kirby, Simon Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Williams, Mr Mark Ellwood, Mr Tobias Knight, rh Sir Greg Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Williams, Roger Elphicke, Charlie Kwarteng, Kwasi Robertson, rh Hugh Williamson, Gavin Eustice, George Lamb, Norman Rogerson, Dan Willott, Jenny Evans, Graham Lancaster, Mark Rosindell, Andrew Wilson, Mr Rob Evans, Jonathan Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Rudd, Amber Wollaston, Dr Sarah Evennett, Mr David Leadsom, Andrea Ruffley, Mr David Wright, Jeremy Fabricant, Michael Lee, Jessica Russell, Sir Bob Wright, Simon Fallon, rh Michael Lee, Dr Phillip Rutley, David Yeo, Mr Tim Featherstone, Lynne Leech, Mr John Sanders, Mr Adrian Young, rh Sir George Foster, rh Mr Don Lefroy, Jeremy Sandys, Laura Fox,rhDrLiam Leigh, Sir Edward Scott, Mr Lee Tellers for the Noes: Francois, rh Mr Mark Leslie, Charlotte Selous, Andrew Claire Perry and Freeman, George Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Sharma, Alok Mark Hunter Freer, Mike Lewis, Brandon Fullbrook, Lorraine Lewis, Dr Julian Question accordingly negatived. Fuller, Richard Lilley, rh Mr Peter Clause 112 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Garnier, Sir Edward Lloyd, Stephen Garnier, Mark Lopresti, Jack Gauke, Mr David Loughton, Tim New Clause 2 George, Andrew Lumley, Karen Gibb, Mr Nick Macleod, Mary AIR PASSENGER DUTY:WALES Gilbert, Stephen Maynard, Paul ‘(1) Schedule (Air Passenger Duty: Wales) has effect.’.— Glen, John McCartney, Jason (Jonathan Edwards.) Goldsmith, Zac McCartney, Karl Brought up, and read the First time. 359 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 360

Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) PART 2 (PC): I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. DEVOLUTION OF WALES LONG HAUL RATES OF DUTY 2 Chapter 4 of Part 1 of FA 1994 (air passenger duty) is amended The Temporary Chair (Mr Peter Bone): With this it as follows. will be convenient to discuss the following: 3 (1) Section 30 (rates of duty) is amended as follows. New clause 6—Air passenger duty: Scotland (2) After subsection (1) insert— ‘(1) The Scotland Act 1998, Schedule 5, section A1 “(1B) Subsection (1) does not apply to the carriage of a (exceptions) is amended as follows. chargeable passenger to which section 30B below (Wales long (2) After “rates)”, insert— haul rates of duty) applies.”. “(1) Air Passenger Duty on all flights that are— (3) Omit subsections (4DA) to (4DC) (as inserted by (a) originating from an airport or aerodrome in Scotland; paragraph 1 above). and (4) The amendments made by this paragraph have effect in (b) not part of a connecting flight from— relation to the carriage of passengers beginning on or after the (i) a domestic UK airport or aerodrome; or relevant day as defined in section 30B of FA 1994 (as inserted by paragraph 4 below). (ii) a territory specified in Part 1 of Schedule 5A of the Finance Act 1994.”.’. 4 After section 30A insert— New clause 7—Rates of air passenger duty (Scotland) 30B Wales long haul rates of duty ‘After section 30A of the Finance Act 1994 there is inserted— “(1) This section applies to the carriage of a chargeable passenger if— “30B Scotland rates of duty (a) the carriage begins on or after the relevant day; (1) This section applies to the carriage of a chargeable passenger if— (b) the only flight, or the first flight, of the passenger’s journey begins at a place in Wales; (a) the carriage begins on or after the relevant day; and (c) the passenger’s journey does not end at a place in the (b) the only flight, or the first flight, of the passenger’s United Kingdom or a territory specified in Part 1 of journey begins at an airport or aerodrome in Scotland. Schedule 5A; and (2) Air passenger duty is chargeable on the carriage of the (d) if the passenger’s journey has more than one flight, the chargeable passenger at the rate set by an Act of the Scottish first flight is not followed by a connected flight Parliament for the purposes of this paragraph. beginning at a place in the United Kingdom or a (3) The rate of £0 may be set for the purposes of territory specified in Part 1 of Schedule 5A. paragraph (2). (2) Air passenger duty is chargeable on the carriage of the (4) Any rate set must not exceed the rate which would apply if chargeable passenger at the rate determined as follows. this section were not in force. (3) If the passenger’s journey ends at a place in a territory (5) “The relevant day” means the day appointed as such by an specified in Part 2 of Schedule 5A— order. (a) if the passenger’s agreement for carriage provides for (6) Section 42(4) and (5) does not apply to any order under standard class travel in relation to every flight on the subsection (5). passenger’s journey, the rate is the rate set by an Act (7) An “Act of the Scottish Parliament” means an Act passed of the National Assembly for Wales for the purposes under section 28 of the Scotland Act 1998.”.’. of this paragraph; and New schedule 1—‘AirPassenger duty: Wales (b) in any other case, the rate is the rate set by an Act of the National Assembly for Wales for the purposes of this paragraph. PART 1 (4) If the passenger’s journey ends at a place in a territory specified in Part 3 of Schedule 5A— RATES OF DUTY FROM 1APRIL 2014 (c) if the passenger’s agreement for carriage provides for 1 Section 30 of FA 1994 (air passenger duty: rates of duty) is standard class travel in relation to every flight on the amended as follows. passenger’s journey, the rate is the rate set by an Act After subsection (4D) insert— of the National Assembly for Wales for the purposes of this paragraph; and “(4DA) Subsection (4D) applies if— (d) in any other case, the rate is the rate set by an Act of (a) the passenger’s journey is a relevant Wales journey; the National Assembly for Wales for the purposes of and this paragraph. (b) apart from subsection (4DB), subsection (2) would not (5) If the passenger’s journey ends at any other place— apply to the journey. (e) if the passenger’s agreement for carriage provides for (4DB) The applicable rate in subsection (2) applies to the standard class travel in relation to every flight on the journey instead of the applicable rate in subsection (3), (4) or passenger’s journey, the rate is the rate set by an Act (4A) (as the case may be). of the National Assembly for Wales for the purposes (4DC) A passenger’s journey is a “relevant Wales journey”— of this paragraph; and (a) in the case of a journey which has only one flight, if (f) in any other case, the rate is the rate set by an Act of the the flight begins in Wales; and National Assembly for Wales for the purposes of this (b) in any other case, if the first flight of the journey— paragraph. (i) begins in Wales; and (6) The rate of £0 may be set for the purposes of any (ii) is not followed by a connected flight beginning at a paragraph. place in the United Kingdom or a territory (7) The same rate may be set for the purposes of two or more specified in Part 1 of Schedule 5A.”. paragraphs. The amendments made by this Part of this Schedule have effect (8) Subsections (5) to (7) and (10) to (12) of section 30 apply in relation to the carriage of passengers beginning on or after for the purposes of this section as they apply for the purposes of 1 April 2014. that section. 361 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 362

(9) “The relevant day” means the day appointed as such by an (3) In section 19 of the Commissioners for Revenue and order. Customs Act 2005 (wrongful disclosure) references to (10) Section 42(4) and (5) do not apply to an order under section 18(1) of that Act are to be read as including a reference to subsection (9). subsection (2) above.”. (11) A Bill containing provision authorised by this section may 9 In section 44 of CRCA 2005 (payment into Consolidated not be passed by the National Assembly for Wales except in Fund) after subsection (2)(cb) insert— pursuance of a recommendation which— (cc) sums required by section 30A(15) of the Finance (g) is made by the Minister of Finance; and Act 1994 (air passenger duty: Wales long haul rates of duty) to be paid into the Consolidated Fund of (h) is signified to the Assembly by the Minister or on the Wales,”. Minister’s behalf. 10 In column 2 of the Table in paragraph 1 of Schedule 41 to FA (12) “Passed”, in relation to a Bill, means passed at the final 2008 (penalties for failure to notify), in the entry relating to air stage (at which the Bill can be passed or rejected but not passenger duty, after “33A(4)”, insert “or 33B(4)”. amended). 11 The amendments made by this Part of this Schedule have (13) Duty paid to the Commissioners in respect of the carriage effect in relation to the carriage of passengers beginning on or of chargeable passengers to which this section applies must be after 1 April 2014. paid by the Commissioners into the Consolidated Fund of Wales.”. 5 (1) Section 33 (registration of aircraft operators) is amended 12 The rate of duty in force under section (30B) shall not be as follows. greater than the rate which would be in force if the section had not been enacted.’. (2) After subsection (2A) insert— Clauses 72 to 74 stand part. “(2B) If the Commissioners decide to keep a register under section 33B below, an operator of a chargeable aircraft does not Jonathan Edwards: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Mr Bone. It become liable to be registered under this section just because the is an honour to serve under the chairmanship of the aircraft is used for the carriage of chargeable passengers to which best slow left-arm bowler in the Westminster cricket section 30B above applies.”. team. (3) In subsection (3)(b) after “applies”, insert “or, if the It is with pleasure that I rise to support new clause 2 Commissioners have decided to keep a register under section 33B and new schedule 1, and I will be pushing for a vote at below, that no chargeable aircraft which he operates will be used for the carriage of chargeable passengers apart from the carriage the appropriate time. The UK Government commission of chargeable passengers to which section 30B above applies. on devolution in Wales, headed by Paul Silk, published (4) In subsection (7) after “section 33A”, insert “or section 33B the first phase of its report in November 2012, which below”. concentrated solely on fiscal powers. Some 18 months later we are still waiting for an essential part of the 6 After section 33A insert— cross-party Silk commission recommendations to come 33B (1) The Commissioners may under this section keep a to fruition: the devolution of responsibility for long-haul register of aircraft operators. air passenger duty. The original cross-party report (2) If the Commissioners decided to keep a register under this recommended that responsibility for APD be transferred section, the operator of a chargeable aircraft becomes liable to be to Wales at the earliest opportunity and that the Finance registered under this section if the aircraft is used for the carriage Bill was the appropriate vehicle for doing that. The of chargeable passengers to which section 30B above applies. commission had the 2013 Finance Bill in mind, following (3) A person who has become liable to be registered under this the precedent set during the 2012 Finance Bill when section ceases to be so liable if the Commissioners are satisfied at APD was devolved to Northern Ireland. any time— It therefore comes as no surprise that I am here yet (a) that he no longer operates any chargeable aircraft; or again attempting to transfer APD to Wales, as was (b) that no chargeable aircraft which he operates will be agreed by all the parties in the commission. I will seek used for the carriage of chargeable passengers to which section 30B above applies. to divide the House and to hold other parties to what their representatives on the commission said and, perhaps (4) A person who is not registered under this section and has not given notice under this subsection shall, if he becomes liable more importantly, what their representatives in the National to be registered under this section at any time, give written notice Assembly say back in Wales. I would of course be of that fact to the Commissioners not later than the end of the ecstatic if by some divine intervention their masters prescribed period beginning with that time. here in London listened to them for once and voted in (5) Notice under subsection (4) above shall be in such form, be favour of the policies they advocate—I do not hold my given in such manner and contain such information as the breath in much hope. Commissioners may direct.”. I will go on to speak about the discrepancies between 7 In section 34 (fiscal representatives) in subsection (5)— what the Unionist parties say in Wales and how they (a) in paragraph (a) after “33A”, insert “or 33B”. vote here on devolving APD. First, let me inform the House a little about the background to the UK Government 8 After section 41B insert— commission’s recommendation to devolve APD as part 41C Wales long haul rates of duty: disclosure of information of a comprehensive package of financial powers and “(1) An officer of Revenue and Customs may disclose to the about the stage we are at now. In short, the cross-party Secretary of State, the Treasury or the Department of Finance in Silk commission recommended that powers over stamp Wales any information for purposes connected with the setting of duty land tax, the aggregates levy, long-haul APD, rates under section 30B above, including (in particular) to enable landfill tax and business rates be devolved in their the setting of rates under that section to be taken into account for the purposes of section 118 of the Government of Wales entirety. It also advocated a sharing arrangement for Act 2006 (payments by Secretary of State into Welsh income tax, with Wales having the ability to vary each Consolidated Fund). individual income tax band and rate. (2) Information disclosed under subsection (1) above may not After having been made to wait for more than a year be further disclosed without the consent of the Commissioners by the London Government to grace us with a response (which may be general or specific). to the commission which they themselves set up, we find 363 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 364 ourselves already having debated the Second Reading reneged on it. That also happened in Scotland with of the Wales Bill in this Chamber. We expect it to be the Calman commission, which was set up by the confirmed tomorrow morning that the whole House Conservatives, Liberals and the friends of Labour, who will return to consider the Committee stage of that Bill then reneged on the Calman proposal to devolve ADP after the Easter recess. Yet the Wales Bill has some to Scotland. glaring omissions. It seems like a long time ago now when, last autumn, the Prime Minister and Deputy Jonathan Edwards: That is an interesting point. I am Prime Minister swept into the Senedd building in Cardiff, sure that the people of Scotland are watching these to flashing camera lights and an adoring paparazzi, in developments intently, as they will be voting in a referendum order to announce new financial powers for Wales. Very on independence in September. The issue is, can they few questioned what exactly was being proposed. Only trust anything that the no campaign says in advance of later did it emerge that the Westminster Government that referendum? I am sure that that will become a were prepared to accept the cross-party commission growing theme as we approach the closing stages. I wish recommendations only in part and that they would be the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues well in the ignoring some. That is despite the fact that they had forthcoming months. representation on the commission in the form of a commissioner representing the Conservative party and As I was saying, the Government have sought to a commissioner representing the Liberal Democrats. water down the financial powers recommended by the commission by constraining them through a lockstep, In essence, the Government have cherry-picked the essentially making it impossible to vary income tax in commission’s recommendations, even though they were Wales. Meanwhile, the Labour party says that it will agreed on as a comprehensive package of reforms. It is block any income tax powers via its Government in therefore greatly disappointing that the Westminster Cardiff unless the Barnett formula—the way in which Government have decided to ignore the will of the Wales is funded—is reformed. That is despite having people of Wales, who believe that Wales should have 13 years to do so while it was in government. greater power over its own affairs, according to successive polls, not least the ones conducted by the commission Labour also now supports the lockstep principle, while it gathered evidence as part of its reports. Those despite the protestations of the First Minister. There is polls represent some of the most detailed research of course the added twist that the bands can only be undertaken on attitudes towards devolution since we moved upwards, which is why I have labelled Labour’s first had our own devolved legislature in 1999. policy “lockstep plus”. Needless to say, the agreement that was the Silk Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): Is all that not doubly commission’s recommendations fell far short of what disappointing given that our representative on the Silk Plaid Cymru was advocating as a party, to which my commission was prepared to compromise in order to hon. Friend the Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) get a unanimous report? We gave ground and support alluded earlier. We wanted a more comprehensive list of to the recommendations of the Silk commission, but job-creating and economy-boosting powers including the Government are cherry-picking. VAT, corporation tax, resource taxes and capital gains Jonathan Edwards: My hon. Friend makes a very tax. However, in the interests of compromise, we settled important point and of course he is right. As I will go on the final recommendations. on to say, the Silk commission was a huge compromise The Silk commission argued that should corporation for Plaid Cymru, yet we find ourselves the only party tax be devolved to Northern Ireland, Wales should not represented here in Westminster, and the only party be left behind. I follow with interest the unanimous represented in the National Assembly in Cardiff, trying support in Northern Ireland, among all parties, pressure to preserve the integrity of the Silk commission. That is groups and interest groups, for the devolution of a vital point which the people of Wales will realise in corporation tax—[Interruption.] Exactly, that is a very good time. interesting point: the Unionists in Northern Ireland The devolution of air passenger duty was an important want corporation tax and a whole range of job-creating element of the package recommended by the Silk powers for their devolved Government, yet we have commission. It was therefore a slap in the face for Wales unionists representing Welsh constituencies trying to when it was omitted from the Wales Bill, which is block any move towards further powers for our country. currently progressing through this House. Both my The Silk commission argued that should corporation colleagues and I have spoken several times about that tax be devolved to Northern Ireland, Wales should not Bill so I will not go into it too much further save to say be left behind. The fiscal powers recommended by Paul that my party and I have been dismayed by the attempts Silk and his team in the commission’s report are still of both the Government and the Labour party to put desperately needed for the sake of the Welsh economy. narrow party self interest ahead of the Welsh national The ability to vary some taxes and to borrow for investment interest and to lay down road blocks in terms of the Silk would enable us in Wales better to deliver job-creating commission. and economy-boosting measures and policies to help The Government have sought to water down the turnaround the continuing bad performance of the financial powers recommended by the commission by economy. constraining them through a lockstep. It was also interesting to hear the Secretary of State sing the praises of the lockstep income tax provision of 6.30 pm the Wales Bill in a TV interview. He said that it could be Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) used to vary rates and would put Wales at a competitive (SNP): I note the hon. Gentleman’s points about the advantage, but that the devolution of long-haul air Silk commission and about how the principal parties passenger duty would put Bristol airport at a competitive 365 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 366

[Jonathan Edwards] airport capacity, we in Wales face a very different problem. Our national airport in Cardiff has not enjoyed the growth in passenger disadvantage. That incoherence shows that the cherry- numbers and destinations that we need to help drive economic picking of the Silk recommendations falls apart unless growth. Devolution of air passenger duty would give us a useful tool to incentivise the growth of Cardiff airport and other smaller they are introduced as a comprehensive and whole facilities, such as Anglesey in north Wales. APD has already been package. devolved to Northern Ireland for long-haul flights; at a minimum, Long-haul APD was devolved to Northern Ireland in I believe Wales should have parity.” last year’s Finance Bill, and the Silk commission has The First Minister makes my case for me, but where are recommended the devolution of long-haul APD to his MPs? Where are they? It is just a shame that he Wales. It is clear therefore that today’s debate is the could not get his MPs to the Committee to vote when appropriate legislative vehicle to move this issue forward. he has the opportunity to do what he keeps preaching Although I failed to do so last year, I live in hope that I to the people of Wales in the Western Mail and on the might succeed today, but given that all the Labour MPs BBC. have disappeared home—AWOL again when the interests MPs representing Welsh constituencies who fail to of Wales are under discussion—I am not holding my vote in favour of devolving air passenger duty do not breath. only ignore the economic needs of Wales, the First Minister of Wales and the overwhelming majority of Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I have a lot Welsh public opinion. of sympathy for what the hon. Gentleman is putting forward. He has mentioned Northern Ireland in relation to corporation tax and APD. Does he recognise though Mr MacNeil: I am intrigued by the behaviour of that one big argument in relation to Northern Ireland is Welsh Labour MPs. Does the hon. Gentleman think the fact that we have a neighbour to our south, another that Welsh Labour MPs hold their First Minister, EU member state, which competes directly with Northern Mr Carwyn Jones, in contempt deliberately or accidentally? Ireland? We also have a land border, and the corporation tax and APD rates down south are much less than they Jonathan Edwards: The key point is that if the First are in Northern Ireland, so there is a unique case in Minister cannot persuade his own MPs and those on Northern Ireland—but I am not for one minute setting his own Front Bench in Westminster to propose policies aside the merits of his case that he is promising to the people of Wales, why should the people of Wales listen to a single word he says to Jonathan Edwards: As usual, the right hon. Gentleman them in the media? It is a test of his credibility and makes a reasoned argument. Northern Ireland has a authority and, based on tonight’s and last year’s evidence, land border with the Republic, of course, but we would I would argue that the First Minister has no credibility argue that we have a sea border. I normally find myself or authority whatsoever. making the case for equality with Scotland in this place, but in this instance I am calling for equality with Hywel Williams: Does my hon. Friend agree that the Northern Ireland. What is good enough for Northern First Minister has form on this matter? He will recall Ireland is certainly good enough for Wales. that we proposed a new clause to the Water Bill to implement the Labour Administration in Cardiff’s policy Just over a year ago, the Labour Welsh Government on borders and the control of water. Of course, the acquired the national airport of Wales, located just Labour Benches were entirely empty and, as he has outside Cardiff near Barry in the Vale of Glamorgan. mentioned, Labour failed to vote on that matter, too. The ability to attract long-haul flights to the airport Labour is entirely bogus. would significantly improve its competitiveness. It has more than 1.5 million people within its catchment area, Jonathan Edwards: Once again, I am grateful for that and long-haul flights could attract people from even intervention. That is one in a long list of political issues further afield given that that is the only airport in Wales on which the First Minister and his Cabinet members or the west of England with a runway large enough to say one thing in Cardiff while Welsh Labour MPs accommodate transatlantic aircraft. The development operate completely differently down here. The proof of of the airport could act as a spur to growth in the south the pudding will, of course, be the Westminster Labour Wales economy, bringing in greater foreign direct investment party manifesto. We will see what influence the First through better business links, which would in turn bring Minister has over that, but the manner in which he has jobs and growth. Quite frankly, I am amazed that the been completely bullied by the shadow Secretary of Labour party has not proposed its own amendment to State, who now supports a lockstep on income tax the Finance Bill and that only goes to show that the powers, seems to show that the balance of power is First Minister has absolutely no influence over his quite firmly here in London. bosses down here in London or, at least, over Labour MPs based in Wales. Bob Stewart: The hon. Gentleman has referred to In response to the UK Government’s proposals for Cardiff airport. Is there another airport in Wales to the Wales Bill last November, the Labour First Minister which air passenger duty applies? said that he was “disappointed” that air passenger duty on long-haul flights would not be devolved. I am not Jonathan Edwards: Cardiff is the only international surprised, given that his Government had brought the airport. We are talking about APD relief on long-haul airport under public ownership only a year earlier. In a flights, and it would apply primarily to Cardiff, but I lecture at the London School of Economics, the First imagine that the Welsh Government would have ambitions Minister said: to redevelop other airports in Wales—[Interruption.] If “Air passenger duty is another tax that should, in my view be they had the ambition, they would want to improve devolved. While London struggles with where to build additional those airports. 367 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 368

As I was saying, public opinion clearly supports the Plaid Cymru has made jobs and the economy its devolution of the tax to Wales. Only yesterday, the absolute priority, which is why we have again tabled an Western Mail published the results of a survey that amendment on air passenger duty. We want to create a showed that 78% of respondents supported the devolution modern and prosperous Wales and, unlike our political of APD. On this, as with so many other issues, the opponents, we have little faith in London government powers that be in Westminster are at odds with what of whatever colour achieving that ambition. That is the people of Wales demand. In response to that poll, why we want Wales to have the tools to get on with the the Welsh Labour Government said: job without delay. Diolch yn fawr. “We will continue to put forward the strong case for it”— APD— Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): It is a pleasure to serve “to be devolved in the hope the UK Government will eventually under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I have the privilege listen to us and the overwhelming majority of the Welsh public and honour of being the Member of Parliament who support this move, as reflected in this poll”. representing Gatwick airport, so aviation is important A day after the poll, we have an opportunity in the to my constituents. Aviation is extremely important to Finance Bill to achieve that objective, but where is the the whole of the United Kingdom, as an island trading Labour party? nation. Many companies located in my constituency are I am glad that, since Cardiff airport has been brought aviation companies, such as Virgin Atlantic, easyJet and into public ownership, new management has driven up TUI Travel, or international companies that have chosen passenger numbers by 9%. That is a crucial point—the to base themselves close to a major international airport. national airport of Wales is publicly owned. I agree Therefore, the issue of taxation on aviation concerns with that, as the airport is an essential part of Welsh not only Wales, Scotland and England, but my constituency national infrastructure, but Labour MPs from Wales in particular. are not here to ensure that something that is publicly I would prefer to see us abolishing air passenger duty owned by the people of Wales has the best chance of altogether. We have one of the highest rates of air succeeding in the long term. passenger duty anywhere in the world. I believe that The devolution of APD could help to ensure the only Chad charges more. Compared with our European long-term future of the airport and draw passengers competitors, the amount we charge is considerably more. away from congested airports in the south-east of One of our nearby competitors, the Netherlands, used England—something I am sure many MPs and their to charge a form of APD but abolished it because of constituents in and around the south-east of England the cost to its economy. Just over a year ago a would welcome. I therefore look forward, perhaps somewhat PricewaterhouseCoopers report concluded that although over-excitedly, to some of those MPs joining us in the air passenger duty brings in about £3 billion to the Aye Lobby. I am similarly amazed that the Secretary of Exchequer, it is estimated to cost the British economy State for Wales is not pushing for the devolution of some £16 billion. APD at the highest level, as it would provide us with the ability to develop the Welsh economy, which should be I congratulate the Government on their move to one of his core objectives. reduce the burden of APD, as announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his The hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Budget a few weeks ago. It is a great step on the way to Cairns) is not in his usual place, which is slightly strange, reforming and, I hope, one day abolishing this duty. It is considering that the airport is in his constituency. The a tax that we, as an island trading nation, can ill afford. livelihood of many of his constituents depends on the Reducing bands C and D into band B for flights to vitality of the airport, as well as the aircraft engineering capitals more than 4,000 miles from the UK will help industry that has grown around it, and they will be many people who want to take well deserved, well dismayed to learn that their MP does not support earned long-haul holidays. It will also help the diaspora measures that could give the airport a competitive communities, particularly those travelling to the West advantage. I should like to make reference in passing to Indies, India, Pakistan, Australia and New Zealand. the difficulties that engineering companies operating Perhaps most importantly for us as an exporting and from the St Athan airbase, which is close to the international trading nation, it will help reduce the cost to business of airport, face as a result of the management of that trading with emerging economies such as China. airfield by the Ministry of Defence. The new clause effectively seeks to give Wales an essential tool to support and provide jobs locally in David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): My hon. Friend is south Wales and the wider Welsh economy. The financial making a characteristically powerful speech. I agree powers recommended by the Commission on Devolution that exporters are vitally important. Lord Livingston in Wales are needed as soon as possible as a spur to jobs recently pointed out that mid-sized businesses in particular and growth in Wales. The Westminster Government, in in the UK are underperforming, as are small businesses, the Wales Bill, have cherry-picked the recommendations compared to other European businesses. Does my hon. and omitted the devolution of APD as well as other Friend think the changes to APD will help those small proposals. The powers included in the Bill may not be and medium-sized enterprises that want to get out and implemented until well into the second half of the do more exporting? decade, provided that no more roadblocks are put in place by other parties. Every month that passes without Henry Smith: Indeed. The simplification of the upper the devolution of those powers, the Welsh economy bands of APD, as announced in the Budget, will help languishes even longer at the bottom of the economic small and medium-sized companies in particular to league table of the nations and regions of the UK, with export. I pay tribute to UK Trade & Investment under job and economic prospects diminished, hopes and this Government, which has been making a fantastic dreams dashed, and lives stalled. effort to give SMEs the tools to maximise exports. The 369 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 370

[Henry Smith] street shop that demands a fee of shoppers before they come into the shop and then wonders why sales have simplification of APD is of great help to small and gone down. medium-sized companies not only in England, but in There are many ways to approach this, and I think I Wales and Scotland. am going to have to resort to poetry to advance my case. My remarks are brief this evening. I congratulate the Given the Government’s intransigence, I wonder whether Government on a Budget that is good for business and this may be the last untried key to unlocking their good for individuals, with the income tax threshold obstinacy. I turn to Mary Howitt’s poem of 1829—nearly being raised, corporation tax being lowered, fuel duty 200 years ago. It is salient to this issue, because despite being frozen and the simplification of APD. I put in a its being written before the Wright brothers and the first bid once again for the abolition of APD in the future, manned flight, it does make reference to a form of but I recognise that it is only this Government who are aviation. It is “The Spider and the Fly”: tackling our economic problems in a fiscally responsible “‘Will you walk into my parlour?’ said the Spider to the Fly, way. Charging APD on a Great Britain-wide basis is the ‘’Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy’”. most appropriate approach; I would not support the regionalisation of APD. Let us focus on getting APD Scotland, as we know, is one of the prettiest parlours; it ultimately abolished, but welcome the simplification is famed for its scenery. Indeed, the website TripAdvisor that is good for individuals and for business in this has named Lewis and Harris, the main island in the country as a whole. north of my constituency, as Europe’s No. 1 island to visit, and fifth in the world overall. Indeed, I would encourage anybody watching this debate or reading it Mr MacNeil: I rise to speak in support of new later in Hansard to go to Google Earth and have a look clauses 6 and 7, in my name and the names of my at the scenery. Whether it is the beaches of Harris at Scottish National party colleagues, and I intend to Luskentyre, or Uig of the Lewis chessmen fame on the press new clause 7 to a vote. west side, or over at Gress and Tolsta or Port of Ness in Unfortunately, air passenger duty has become yet the far north, they will see what TripAdvisor is talking another of the Westminster Government’s damaging about. Anybody visiting will find fine hotels in Tarbert, interventions in the Scottish economy. It is a tax whose Harris or Stornoway, Lewis, and many bed and breakfasts, time has passed, if indeed it was ever fitting for Scotland, dotted throughout the islands. Stornoway is probably and it is at best only a demand management tool for one of the best-connected towns in all of Scotland, with Heathrow, needed because of the dithering and direct daily flights to Scotland’s principal cities of Aberdeen, prevarication at Westminster about doing anything there. Inverness, Glasgow and Edinburgh, and sometimes several As London lost its advantage in sea-going transport to times daily. There is more. Other islands to the south Rotterdam for reasons of dithering and prevarication, include North Uist, Benbecula, South Uist, and of it seems that it is now losing its advantage at Heathrow course my own native Barra. as well, as the world No. 1 slot goes to Dubai. If But despite our advantages, with standing stones Schiphol sorts out a few minor irritants for travellers, it older than Stonehenge and a visitor record going back will do to Heathrow what Rotterdam did to the docks. to the Greeks in 325 BC, the London Government’s Since 2007, APD has increased markedly: by between attitude is, “Walk into my parlour if you like. We’re not 160% and a staggering 360%. This tax—this demand too bothered if you do or you don’t, but if you do we’ll management tool for Heathrow—is definitely damaging have our highwayman mask on and we’re out to charge the Scottish economy.I object to it not because Westminster you a king’s ransom”—and this is just to reach Scotland wants to slap it on to flyers owing to its dithering and in the first place. prevarication—it should be free to tax and spend as it That is a pity, because those who do discover the wants, regardless of the stupidity and myopia of its beauty of Scotland and especially its islands—from actions—but because of what it is doing to Scotland. Islay to Unst in Shetland—find, rather like the fly at the The damage is obvious. PricewaterhouseCoopers says end of Mary Howitt’s poem, that those who go up the that its reduction would increase tax receipts in other winding stair can ne’er come down again. Similarly, areas, especially VAT, and create jobs. In short, Westminster those from overseas who discover Scotland are very is costing us jobs, certainly jobs in Scotland, through likely to return. The damage is huge. It is not quite this tax. cataclysmic, but it is big. We are not quite in the Let us have a quick glance at tables that compare territory of Lord George Robertson, who killed the APD in the UK with that in some other countries in word “cataclysmic” stone dead after he took a flight Europe. According to the Airport Operators Association, recently to make a speech in the United States of the next highest rate on short-haul economy flights is America. I am sure he is well aware of how much APD that of Austria, which charges a hefty ¤8. This sum he paid. increases markedly—by 100%—in the UK, which charges Moving on to more serious voices on this issue than ¤16. On the medium-haul rate, Germany is the leader that of Lord George Robertson, a range of industry with ¤23, but that is trebled, and more, in the UK, figures have lined up against this self-defeating tax. where it is ¤89. On long-haul, Germany, again, leads Amanda McMillan, the respected managing director of with ¤42, but the UK is well out in front with ¤113—double Glasgow airport, has said: to treble the rate in other countries. On the maximum-rate charge, France manages to pick up the crown with ¤47, “Aviation plays a critical role in supporting the growth of the UK economy and this role is even more profound in Scotland but steaming out in front, yet again, is the UK with given the country’s location on the periphery of Europe. Travelling ¤226. While this demand management tool might be by air is not a luxury but an essential element of business and good enough for Heathrow, it is certainly not good for family life, yet we continue to have the highest levels of taxation in Scotland. It is a gate-keeper tax. I compare it to a high the EU. It was extremely disappointing, therefore, that despite 371 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 372 repeated representations to the UK Government the Chancellor for a straight reduction in bands. Independence is gaining in his Autumn statement opted to further increase levels of APD. support because of such straightforward, common-sense APD is already proving a significant barrier to attracting new approaches. routes and unless there is a fundamental re-think, I have no doubt that Scotland’s domestic and international connectivity will suffer. Thankfully, there is broad cross party support in Scotland for 7pm action on APD and we welcome any moves which would address I note that this is a time of improved, or the best-ever, the issue and stimulate further growth.” UK-Irish relations, as the Prime Minister has said; I hope to see evidence of that broad cross-party consensus relations are at an all-time high. He calls them “Anglo-Irish in Scotland when we press the new clause to a vote relations”, but I am of course working my hardest to tonight—or is it similar to the hollow words of Labour make sure that those words are indeed accurate after in Wales? September. Yesterday, the Irish President Michael D. Gordon Dewar, chief executive of Edinburgh airport, Higgins, a lovely, charismatic and inspirational man, has said of the White Paper: said that people-to-people connections have never been closer between these two islands—no doubt because of “We welcome this policy from the Scottish Government and we would like to see APD not only halved but abolished completely. their independence. We’ve had a successful year at Edinburgh Airport but it is clear I must say that I am grateful to a visiting Member of from our discussions with our airlines that Scotland could be far the Dail Eireann, Frank Feighan TD, the Member for better connected without the iniquitous yoke of APD. It puts our Roscommon Leitrim South. He reminded me that not country and importantly our vital tourism industry at risk. People only are the number of routes shooting up in Ireland—the and airlines will go elsewhere. We reiterate our call for governments to support our economy and abolish this unfair tax.” 20 routes that I mentioned—but the ending of APD will increase visitors’ spend. Irish politicians can see The managing director of Aberdeen airport, Carol clearly, far more clearly than Westminster, that such Benzie, has said: spend will more than replace what was lost in APD “What is becoming increasingly clear are the implications of revenue. this tax on UK businesses. Put simply APD adds to the burden of It puzzles me that the UK Government are quite running a successful company. 65% of our passengers in Aberdeen are travelling in a professional capacity and ultimately the responsibility comfortable with Ireland, with which we share a sea for paying APD in each and every one of these cases is being border, having zero APD—saying that relations are the passed back to their employer. Firms in Aberdeen are connected best ever and are at an all-time high—but are absolutely globally with links in emerging and existing markets. These petrified of Scotland managing to reduce its APD by businesses are paying APD twice if they chose to use a hub 50%. That is illogical, incoherent and daft. If the UK airport in the UK, and are taking their business elsewhere in Government lost their imperial control mania, they increasing numbers to avoid this tax.” would find themselves living in an island whose aggregate It is self-defeating. GDP was going up. We would all benefit from that—not Commenting on the Irish Government’s decision to just in Scotland, but in England and, I hope, particularly abolish air travel tax, which came into force on 1 April, in the north of England, a part of the world for which I Scottish Transport Minister Keith Brown, a former have a real soft spot. veteran of the Falklands war, said: I will finish with a PricewaterhouseCoopers study, “Scrapping Air Travel Tax in Ireland has had an immediate which says that the UK picture last year suggested that impact and shows what could be achieved in Scotland if we had the abolition of APD would yield 0.46% of UK GDP in control over Air Passenger Duty…After the Irish Government the first year, and add at least £16 billion to GDP within outlined its plans to abolish the tax last year, Ryanair stated that it three years, while creating 60,000 new jobs. The figure will deliver an additional 1 million passengers to and from Ireland for Scotland would be about £667 million. APD raises as a direct result of that decision, with 20 new routes into Dublin, £2.8 billion to £3 billion in the UK, which is £13 billion Shannon and Cork launching this summer.” less than what could be made. In Scotland, the figure is When I spoke about this last year I warned that the £234 million. UK Government had been ignoring the industry, the I say to Treasury Ministers that, given a UK net gain people and the Scottish Government for far too long of £13 billion, perhaps the Treasury is thrawn or and that it was no wonder that support for independence uninterested in what is happening in Scotland. I appeal was growing. We now know that support for independence to them to get out a calculator and to act in their own has grown far more in the past year than I could have self-interest, because if they do, they will see the wisdom imagined. Are the UK Government going to continue of what Ireland, the Netherlands and many other countries with their intransigence? A year on, what do we have? have done and the wisdom of what every voice in the The gap in the polls has closed, tightening to 6% within industry is saying. Only intransigence and a thrawn, the margin of error, which is almost a swing, and the thrawn Westminster attitude has left us in a situation head of British Airways, Willie Walsh, and Ryanair’s where, year after year, we have to use poetry or any Michael O’Leary are supportive of Scottish independence other device to try to get it into the minds of bods at the because they see the opportunities. I am sure that Treasury that here is something to be listened to and Members of this place will be supportive of independence noted for the prosperity of many people, and for those after the event, but why do they have to be so slow and who would fill the 60,000 new jobs. so late to the party? Michael O’Leary and Willie Walsh are right on the money, as we will see on 18 September. David Rutley: It is a pleasure to serve under your The Scottish Government, in their White Paper on chairmanship, Mr Bone, as we debate the Bill on the the best-planned independence process of any country Floor of the House. One thing we have learned is that if in the world, aim to reduce APD by 50% within the first Scotland made the mistake of voting yes, at least those term of an independent Parliament, and to abolish it wanting to leave could do so at a lower cost, given the completely when circumstances allow, with a proposal benefits coming through from the proposal on APD. 373 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 374

Mr MacNeil: In the light of the events of the past few International aviation links are not merely important days, does the hon. Gentleman think that Irish independence for exporting goods and services from the UK to other is a good idea? countries, or to make more sales missions feasible; lower APD will support UK tourism and help to improve David Rutley: I have no idea what that matter has to our competitive position in the market for inbound do with APD. tourists, be they leisure tourists or business travellers in the meetings, incentives, conferences and events sector. Mr MacNeil: The hon. Gentleman may have heard According to Kurt Janson, the Tourism Alliance’s me say in my speech a few moments ago that the Irish policy director, the Bill’s proposed savings have reduced APD to zero. The President of Ireland has “will be a benefit for attracting visitors from the growth markets been here on a state visit this week, showing how warm of China, India and Brazil as well as the traditional market of relations are, and we are looking for such warm relations. New Zealand and Australia.” We are looking to control our APD, and to have very Indeed, PricewaterhouseCoopers suggests that the studies friendly and very warm relations, especially with the it reviewed for its research people of Macclesfield. “all point to a link between whole economy productivity and airline sector output.” David Rutley: I am a regular visitor to Scotland—I By encouraging greater connectivity between the UK normally drive—but I think we should move on to and the global economy, reductions in APD can add to wider issues. the mix of supply-side measures introduced by this As they stand, the changes to air passenger duty from Government since 2010. APD is another barrier to April 2015 will save business-class, long-haul passengers productive growth that the Government seek to remove. more than £100. It makes sense to abolish the very high This Government believe in long-term thinking. Difficult bands of APD. They have caused understandable concerns, decisions have had to be made to save us from the with the widespread perception that they were just appalling legacy that we inherited from the previous another example of the unfair tax changes that we Government, but we are now seeing the results of that inherited from the Labour party. It is right that, as a approach. It has become affordable and fiscally responsible result of the Government’s decisions, all long-haul flights to cut APD and other taxes that have been holding back will carry the same lower band-B tax rate that is paid to this country’s businesses and people from realising their travel to the United States, for example. A family of ambitions. The Government are helping people to realise four flying economy to visit relatives or communities in their ambitions and objectives in life by working the Caribbean or south Asia will pay £56 less in APD. It progressively to de-risk entrepreneurialism and support is also right and fair that the Government have brought the export industry. For that reason, the measures have private jets into the scope of APD and that the share of my full support. the burden is more easily spread across air passengers. Government Members believe in tax fairness, and we Catherine McKinnell: It is a pleasure to serve under believe in reducing the burden of tax wherever possible. your chairmanship, Mr Bone. It is clear from the As my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Henry contributions and amendments tabled by the hon. Members Smith) pointed out, however, it must be a fiscally responsible for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) approach, although that seems to have been completely and for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) that APD ignored in the comments of some Opposition Members. remains an important issue for many hon. and right hon. Members. Indeed, we have debated APD on the By cutting APD, the Chancellor is again helping to Floor of the House on many occasions, so it is worth support British exporters, not least first-time exporters briefly reflecting on the coalition Government’s record looking to make their first steps into high-growth export on APD since they came to power in 2010— a record, as markets, perhaps by attending international trade fairs I am sure many hon. Members will agree, of prevarication, or visiting prospective clients and customers abroad. indecision and lack of direction. Virgin Atlantic says: Before the election, the Conservatives made a “The Government has rightly recognised the damage APD is commitment to look at a per-plane duty. The report having on exporters and the travelling public alike.” that resulted almost a year later, contrary to the manifesto There is a real need to encourage more exports and commitments of the Conservatives and the Liberal exporters. As I indicated in my earlier intervention, Democrats and the coalition agreement, was not taken Lord Livingston recently pointed out that forward, and for very good reasons. The industry certainly “only 17% of UK mid-sized businesses generate revenues outside did not support it. Although right hon. and hon. Members of the EU compared to 25% in Germany and 30% in Italy.” on both sides of the Committee will be all too conscious I am delighted that action is being taken across Government of the need not to take a Liberal Democrat promise at to meet that challenge. Our small and medium-sized face value, we had certain expectations concerning the businesses have the potential to be economic powerhouses coalition agreement. for our economy and to create more wealth and more The Government promised a further review of APD. jobs across all regions of the UK, including Wales and The consultation covered several areas including private Scotland. To realise that potential, we need to rediscover jets, different tax bands, premium economy flights, flights our great trading heritage and embrace the global from regional airports and the possible devolution of opportunities for Great British services and manufactured APD. The consultation paper raised the concern that goods. By cutting APD, we are underlining the commitment the existing four-band structure was damaging the UK’s of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, competitiveness and contained several anomalies, such the Foreign Office and UK Trade & Investment to as a higher rate for Caribbean flights than for other provide support. Those are positive steps. destinations in the USA. That was a source of concern 375 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 376 for many hon. Members, which, given the announcement routes from the Republic of Ireland to the transatlantic in this year’s Budget, the Government seem to have route from Belfast to Newark airport in New York, taken on board. The consultation lasted the best part of which is critical to the Northern Irish economy.Continental a year and numerous interested parties took considerable Airlines had been paying APD, unsustainably, at a cost time and effort to respond constructively and in good of £3.2 million a year. Following the Finance Act 2012, faith. APD on long-haul flights departing from Northern What was the result of that long and arduous process, Ireland was devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly, which, including the first consultation, spanned the best which abolished it on 1 January 2013. part of two years? It was next to nothing. Aside from I know that right hon. and hon. Members, and anyone the extension of APD to cover business flights, we have who has engaged in this debate over the past few years, seen no changes to APD across the UK. That period of will be all too aware of those facts. However, it is time has been described by industry players as important to remind the House of them, so that it can “a sham and a waste of taxpayers’ money.” better understand the new clauses and new schedule. There were three full years of promises, yet the Government Flights in Northern Ireland clearly face specific challenges. delivered next to nothing. Three wasted years—a phrase As I and other Labour Members have noted before, it is that is synonymous with the coalition Government, the only part of the UK that shares a land border with whether in respect of APD or, more broadly, the flatlining another EU member state. George Best Belfast City economy that we have seen for most of the Chancellor’s airport and Belfast International airport compete directly time in office. with Dublin in attracting airlines, routes and passengers. The Opposition supported the Government’s move on In this year’s Budget, choices were made that, APD on long-haul flights from Northern Ireland, given notwithstanding the years of delay and the further year its unique international land border and the fact that of delay ahead, have been cautiously welcomed by Northern Ireland largely relies on air transport for its much of the industry. The third coalition U-turn in this link to the rest of the UK. area in as many years means that there will be some relief for long-haul flights in the form of lower rates of APD. Let us not forget that APD on all flights of more 7.15 pm than 2,000 miles will be uprated by RPI this month. Mr MacNeil: Is aviation not about more than That comes on top of the large increases over the past competition? It is also about growth. When Governments few years, including the 8% rise that the Chancellor get their head around that, we will surely see a sea announced in Budget 2012, which was double the rate change in their approach to APD. They should focus on of inflation. growth, not just competition. Budget 2014 saw the announcement or Catherine McKinnell: The hon. Gentleman makes an re-announcement—I am not entirely sure which, as important point, and I entirely agree that the Government Ministers will not give me a straight answer—that the should be absolutely focused on economic growth. The Government will provide funding to aid start-up routes debate about APD is part of that discussion, and at smaller airports. The regional air connectivity fund, the regional air connectivity fund must also be part of as it will be known, will help new routes from regional the conversation. The Government need to provide airports according to the Red Book, but Ministers do clarity on those issues in this Finance Bill and in the not seem to know which airports or new routes will be future. eligible or what the fund may be spent on. Although any new support for new air routes is clearly welcome, As I said, Labour remains to be convinced of the the proposal seems to bring yet more uncertainty for merits of devolving air passenger duty. The Calman the aviation industry, the like of which it has already commission proposed that it be considered, and the endured for years. Labour Government committed to keep it under review. Clearly, that support could be of most value to the Jonathan Edwards: The hon. Lady made a telling constituents of the Members who have tabled the new point in response to my hon. Friend the Member for clauses and the new schedule. Perhaps the Minister will Arfon (Hywel Williams) when she said that the Labour enlighten the Committee and reassure hon. Members Treasury Front-Bench team remained to be convinced about what support their regional airports can expect to of the position taken by the Labour Government in receive from the fund. Wales. As she knows, the Labour Government are in direct intergovernmental negotiations with the UK Hywel Williams: While the hon. Lady is talking about Government’s Treasury team. If the First Minister and enlightening the Committee, will she enlighten us as to the Welsh Government cannot convince their own party, where her Welsh Labour colleagues are? There is a what credibility can they have in those vital negotiations Welsh Whip lurking at the far end of the Front Bench. with the UK Government? Perhaps he will give us a clue. Catherine McKinnell: I have said clearly that the Catherine McKinnell: We have been very clear on Labour party remains to be convinced of the merits of numerous occasions that Labour remains to be convinced devolving APD, but let us remember that the Wales Bill of the merits of devolving APD. We do not believe that that is currently going through Parliament contains a it is necessarily the correct way forward at this stage. number of devolved tax powers for Wales and is the We acknowledge that the Government have made appropriate place to debate these issues in the round. some notable changes to APD in Northern Ireland. The Labour’s devolution commission in Scotland considered Chancellor announced in September 2011 that APD the matter again and argued that devolving APD within rates on long-haul flights using airports in Northern the mainland of Great Britain would generate unhelpful Ireland would be cut because of the threat of competing tax competition within the UK. 377 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 378

Hywel Williams: I am intrigued. The hon. Lady says Mr Gauke: My point to the hon. Gentleman is that that Labour remains to be convinced about devolving the Government must reduce the deficit and APD is a APD. Has she told Carwyn Jones? valuable source of revenue. One cannot look at the effects of APD in isolation; one must look at the overall Catherine McKinnell: As I said, the Wales Bill, which effects on the economy. We have taken measures in the is currently going through Parliament, contains a number Bill to reduce the burden of APD, but it is worth noting of devolved tax powers for Wales and is the appropriate that airports in Scotland and Wales, and regional airports place to debate these issues. That is why Labour will elsewhere in the UK, have been doing well in recent abstain on the issue of APD devolution tonight, but we months. look forward to the Exchequer Secretary providing clarity on the various queries that have been raised Guy Opperman: I wish to praise Newcastle airport, today, particularly about the regional air connectivity which has welcomed the changes to APD. It is pleased fund, which is clearly linked to the issues of certainty that officials are indicating that the regional air connectivity for investment, growth, which all Members are focused fund will extend to airports beyond the 3 million passenger on, and the role that aviation plays in our economy. mark to those with upwards of 5 million passengers in certain circumstances. Does the Minister agree that that is a further example of the Government assisting regional Mr Gauke: In 2010, the Government inherited an air airports and allowing them to grow as we know they passenger duty system that needed to be fixed. The can? changes that the previous Government made in late 2009 caused aggravation to the UK’s overseas friends Mr Gauke: I am grateful to my hon. Friend because and frustrated diaspora communities. Clauses 72 to he brings me to my next point. I agree with him. The 74 will fix the system by implementing air passenger Government recognise the importance of aviation duty rates for this year and by reform of the rates for connectivity for all parts of the UK—for example, next year. domestic flights are not subject to VAT. As he says, we I will address new clause 2 and new schedule 1, tabled are extending the scope of the regional air connectivity by Plaid Cymru Members, and new clauses 6 and 7, fund to include start-up aid for new routes from regional tabled by Scottish National party Members. The Plaid airports, and increasing funding to £20 million a year. Cymru proposal broadly follows the form that was Clearly, exactly how that works is a matter for the taken to devolve the duty on direct long-haul flights Department for Transport, but I welcome the fact that from Northern Ireland, and requests a similar devolution the Government are consulting the regional airports to for direct long-haul flights from Wales. The SNP proposals see whether those that have more than 3 million passengers seek the devolution of duty on flights to all destinations. per year can receive extra support. That includes Newcastle I remind hon. Members that the devolution of duty airport, which has 4.4 million passengers. One could for Northern Ireland was in specific response to Northern also mention East Midlands International, Liverpool Ireland’s unique circumstances. It shares a land border John Lennon, Belfast International, Aberdeen, London with Ireland, leading to a risk of flights relocating from City and Leeds Bradford, all of which have more than one part of the shared land mass to another. We recognised 3 million passengers a year. We are trying to do what we that risk and acted to ensure that Northern Ireland was can to ensure that those airports can gain support from not disadvantaged. the connectivity fund. The current situation is that airports on the Great Catherine McKinnell: Obviously, we broadly welcome Britain mainland face the same APD rates, but the SNP any support for expansion and new routes from regional and Plaid Cymru proposals could well lead to the airports, but would the Minister accept that making an introduction of the same market distortions that our announcement without any details about the type of devolution to Northern Ireland sought to prevent, namely activity that will be covered by the funding can add the reallocation of flights from one part of the UK to uncertainty to the already difficult environment for the another, leading to distortion in competition, and winners industry at present? It is imperative to bring some and losers across the UK. clarity to the issue as soon as possible. Will he tell us Regional airports are doing well: 2013 was the third when he will be able to clarify what might qualify for consecutive year of passenger growth and our APD the funding? banding reform is another confidence boost for the air Mr Gauke: The hon. Lady is being uncharacteristically travel market. Relevant examples include Cardiff airport, glass half empty. We have announced an expansion of which in 2013 saw a 4% increase, equating to around the connectivity fund. We have said that we are seeking 44,000 extra passengers, with new routes announced to to take that beyond airports that have more than 3 million Germany and the Caribbean. In Scotland, there has passengers per annum. As it happens, the Department been 3% growth at Glasgow airport, with almost 206,000 for Transport is consulting on and developing guidelines additional passengers. New routes have been announced for accessing support, and the results will be published for this summer to Croatia and Greece. Edinburgh in the summer. I am sure that the hon. Lady is as keen airport has grown 6%, equating to more than 580,000 as my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy additional passengers. In the past six months, new Opperman) to ensure that the best happens for Newcastle routes to Qatar, the USA and Norway have been airport. announced. Guy Opperman: It is surely a relevant factor that the Mr MacNeil: Is the Minister happy, or does he agree Budget was only a few weeks ago and the guidance on with industry figures in Scotland, particularly the managing which we are consulting was published by the European directors of airports, who believe that that growth has Commission only at the end of February. One could been constrained by APD? hardly have done it any earlier. 379 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 380

Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend is right. As I say, the industry’s point that tickets are often sold a considerable Department for Transport is developing these guidelines time in advance of travel. The industry needs up to a with the intention of publishing in the summer. year’s forward rates certainty to have sufficient time to prepare its accounting systems and set pricing ahead of Catherine McKinnell rose— advance ticket sales. The rates contained in clause 72 have therefore been anticipated by the industry. Mr Gauke: I am sure that the hon. Lady—I think she has Newcastle airport in her constituency or at least nearby—will take this opportunity to welcome what the 7.30 pm Government are doing. Clause 73 rolls back the previous Government’s four-band system. That system saw travellers to China, India, Catherine McKinnell: Newcastle international airport Brazil, the Caribbean and a host of other destinations is in my constituency—[Interruption.] The car park is paying more in tax than travellers going to Hawaii, even in another constituency. However, I speak on behalf of though Hawaii is further away. We believe this system to all the regional airports. I am not being churlish about be crazy and unfair. Clause 73 restores sense and fairness the potential funding that has been announced, but I by reforming the duty bandings. It introduces a simple hoped that the Minister would realise the increased to understand two-band system: one band for travel to commercial uncertainty that can be created by making countries up to 2,000 miles from London, and another announcements that lack clarity about what may or for travel to countries further away. This puts a host of may not be included. The Government need to move as countries on to the same rate as the USA and delivers a fast as possible to create— rates cut for travel to growth markets in Latin America, southern Asia and the far east with effect from 1 April The Temporary Chair (Mr Peter Bone): Order. 2015. For example, a family of four visiting relatives in Interventions are getting longer than some of the speeches. the Caribbean will save £56, and a commercial traveller Mr Gauke: I am not sure that I can add much, other to China will save at least £14 per trip. than to say that if the hon. Lady is concerned about Clause 74 updates the list of countries over 4,000 miles uncertainty she might want to look at some of the from London to reflect changes in the legal composition anti-business policies pursued by her party. of several island states in the Caribbean and the south We also recognise that air services in some of the Atlantic. These states are also set to benefit from rates more remote parts of the UK represent a vital connection savings with the reform of APD from 1 April 2015. to the rest of the country. That is why there is an air In 2011, a number of regional airports offered the passenger duty exemption for flights from the highlands view that there ought to be an additional charge of duty and islands of Scotland. at congested airports, or a lower rate at uncongested airports. Their thinking was that it would spread demand Mr MacNeil: I am grateful for the exemptions for the for air travel more widely across the country. However, highlands and islands of Scotland, but does the Minister other airports countered that this is not the most appropriate think that the devolution of APD to Scotland and way to address congestion, and many airlines felt that it Wales would result in an increase in the number of would distort the market without materially affecting routes, flights, passengers, commerce, tourism and eventually decisions about where services are located. revenue to the public purse? Does he see any advantage In October 2012, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to the devolution of APD? published a report that shows that significantly higher Mr Gauke: I wish to avoid running the risk of repeating prices at congested airports could lead to some passenger myself, but I make the point that I made earlier: the redistributions, but it also suggests that the benefits devolution of APD within Great Britain would create might not be spread widely across the UK. In addition, unfortunate market distortions. As we said in our November the report suggests that some regional airports would in 2013 response to the Silk commission, we are not convinced fact lose passengers if a difference in price meant traffic of the case for devolving air passenger duty to Wales, and services went to other competing airports. Having given the potential effects across the country as a whole. carefully considered the idea, we were not convinced In the case of Scotland, the distortive effects across the that a regional variation of rates would materially help country as a whole are harder to diagnose, given that it in meeting our objective to rebalance the UK economy. has more major airports with significant route connectivity. Budget 2013 therefore ruled out varying duty rates by Our opinion remains that this requires careful evaluation levels of airport congestion. It is of note that the if we are to be confident of its potential effects, so I ask Airports Commission’s December 2013 interim report hon. Members to withdraw their amendments. also concluded that “an air passenger duty congestion charge is not a promising Bob Stewart: Is it the Government’s intention to solution to the capacity problem in London and the South East.” continue the trend of reducing air passenger duty across In more recent times some regional airports have the country? turned their thinking to the idea of a holiday period for new long-haul routes during which duty would not be Mr Gauke: What I would say to my hon. Friend is payable. On this, the Airports Commission’s interim that we have set out in the Budget and in the Bill report offers an illuminating view. It says that there are significant changes that we think fix the problem we two potential pitfalls. First, if the idea applied to all inherited from the previous Government. new routes equally, there would be substantial potential My hon. Friend gives me the opportunity to turn to for airlines to game the system by switching existing clauses 72 to 74. Ahead of our rates reform, clause 72 routes between airports. Secondly, if there were measures fulfils the commitment given in Budget 2013 on the to control this behaviour, the idea would run a substantial rates of duty for 2014-15. This respects the air travel risk of legal challenge, because it would distort competition 381 Finance (No. 2) Bill9 APRIL 2014 Finance (No. 2) Bill 382 in favour of particular routes and not others. The and authority. If he cannot convince his own side, why commission felt that it could not recommend the use of should anyone in Wales take anything that he says air passenger duty holidays. It instead referenced how seriously, and how can he possibly engage in detailed airport landing charges might be used to incentivise negotiations with the United Kingdom Government on new routes. We see nothing to disagree with in the these very fine and important fiscal matters? commission’s analysis. It is necessary for us to divide the Committee so that In Northern Ireland, there is a defined devolution of the people of Wales can see the truth for themselves, air passenger duty that responds to Northern Ireland’s and I therefore wish to press new clause 2 to a Division. unique circumstances. Since 1 January 2013, the Northern Question put, That the clause be read a Second time. Ireland Government have had a devolved power to set rates for direct long-haul flights leaving Northern Ireland. The House divided: Ayes 9, Noes 254. They have used that power to set a zero rate, which Division No. 253] [7.38 pm means that the highest rate of duty on any direct flight from Northern Ireland is £13. The rates of duty for AYES through-ticketed flights using connections at one or Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Shannon, Jim more hub airports remain the same as those applying to Edwards, Jonathan Whiteford, Dr Eilidh the rest of the UK, which means that from 1 April 2015 Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Williams, Hywel passenger savings will result from the Budget’s rates MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Tellers for the Ayes: reform. Paisley, Ian Pete Wishart and The Republic of Ireland’s recent decision to reduce Robertson, Angus Mr Mike Weir its air travel tax to zero from 1 April this year is, of course, acknowledged, but I must make clear that I NOES cannot accept calls from Members for the abolition of Adams, Nigel Davies, Glyn air passenger duty. Outright abolition is an unfunded Afriyie, Adam Davies, Philip request that would leave a £3 billion-plus hole in the Aldous, Peter Davis, rh Mr David public finances. If, as a consequence, the Northern Alexander, rh Danny Dinenage, Caroline Ireland Government wish to argue their case for further Andrew, Stuart Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen devolution, they must consider the fiscal costs, which Bacon, Mr Richard Dorries, Nadine would have to borne locally. Baker, Steve Doyle-Price, Jackie I can confirm that in total, the rates reform in clauses 72 Baldry, rh Sir Tony Drax, Richard to 74 provides a £920 million shot in the arm for travel Baldwin, Harriett Duddridge, James to growth markets. It simplifies the tax system, and Barclay, Stephen Duncan, rh Mr Alan Baron, Mr John Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain supports the UK’s export drive. The clauses maintain Bebb, Guto Dunne, Mr Philip fiscal responsibility within a fiscally neutral Budget, Bellingham, Mr Henry Ellis, Michael with targeted action to fix the problems left by the last Benyon, Richard Ellison, Jane Government. I therefore ask the hon. Member for Beresford, Sir Paul Ellwood, Mr Tobias Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) to Blackman, Bob Elphicke, Charlie withdraw his motion, because the proposals in the new Blackwood, Nicola Eustice, George clauses and new schedule would inhibit fair opportunity Blunt, Crispin Evans, Graham and distort the market. Boles, Nick Evans, Jonathan Bradley, Karen Evennett, Mr David Jonathan Edwards: We have had an informed and Brady, Mr Graham Fabricant, Michael very interesting debate. We have also had an incredible Brake, rh Tom Fallon, rh Michael revelation, which I hope the Welsh media will pick up Bray, Angie Featherstone, Lynne Brazier, Mr Julian Foster, rh Mr Don tomorrow. Let me make it clear for the benefit of Bridgen, Andrew Fox,rhDrLiam Labour Front Benchers that Carwyn Jones is the Labour Brine, Steve Francois, rh Mr Mark First Minister of Wales. Brokenshire, James Freeman, George We heard excellent speeches from the hon. Members Browne, Mr Jeremy Freer, Mike for Crawley (Henry Smith) and for Macclesfield (David Bruce, Fiona Fullbrook, Lorraine Rutley), a typically passionate speech from my hon. Buckland, Mr Robert Fuller, Richard Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), Burley, Mr Aidan Garnier, Sir Edward speeches from both Front Benches, and many good Burns, rh Mr Simon Garnier, Mark interventions. Burrowes, Mr David Gauke, Mr David Burstow, rh Paul George, Andrew The people of Wales own—via the Welsh Government Byles, Dan Gibb, Mr Nick —our national airport, which is a key piece of our Cairns, Alun Gilbert, Stephen national infrastructure, and we need to control air Carmichael, Neil Glen, John passenger duty if we are to maximise the potential of Carswell, Mr Douglas Graham, Richard that asset. This is primarily an issue of jobs and growth, Cash, Mr William Grant, Mrs Helen but it is also an issue of gross hypocrisy, given that Chishti, Rehman Gray, Mr James parties operating in a devolved context say one thing in Clark, rh Greg Grayling, rh Chris Wales and something completely different here in Coffey, Dr Thérèse Green, rh Damian Westminster. The Labour First Minister of Wales says Colvile, Oliver Greening, rh Justine that this is an economic priority for his Administration, Cox, Mr Geoffrey Grieve, rh Mr Dominic but he cannot persuade his own bosses here in London, Crabb, Stephen Griffiths, Andrew or Labour Members of Parliament based in Wales. This Crouch, Tracey Gummer, Ben is therefore an issue of the First Minister’s credibility Davey, rh Mr Edward Halfon, Robert 383 Finance (No. 2) Bill 9 APRIL 2014 384

Hames, Duncan Mowat, David Watkinson, Dame Angela Willott, Jenny Hammond, Stephen Mulholland, Greg Weatherley, Mike Wilson, Mr Rob Hands, rh Greg Mundell, rh David Wharton, James Wollaston, Dr Sarah Harper, Mr Mark Munt, Tessa Wheeler, Heather Wright, Jeremy Harris, Rebecca Murray, Sheryll White, Chris Wright, Simon Hart, Simon Murrison, Dr Andrew Whittaker, Craig Yeo, Mr Tim Harvey, Sir Nick Neill, Robert Whittingdale, Mr John Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Newmark, Mr Brooks Wiggin, Bill Tellers for the Noes: Hayes, rh Mr John Newton, Sarah Williams, Roger Claire Perry and Heath, Mr David Nokes, Caroline Williamson, Gavin Mark Hunter Heaton-Harris, Chris Nuttall, Mr David Hemming, John O’Brien, rh Mr Stephen Question accordingly negatived. Henderson, Gordon Offord, Dr Matthew Hendry, Charles Ollerenshaw, Eric The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means Herbert, rh Nick Opperman, Guy (Dawn Primarolo): Does Mr MacNeil wish to move new Hinds, Damian Ottaway, rh Sir Richard clause 6 formally? Hollobone, Mr Philip Patel, Priti Holloway, Mr Adam Paterson, rh Mr Owen Mr MacNeil indicated dissent. Hopkins, Kris Penning, rh Mike Horwood, Martin Penrose, John The Second Deputy Chairman: No? Okay. [Interruption.] Howarth, Sir Gerald Phillips, Stephen It is very generous of Members to assist Mr MacNeil, Howell, John Pincher, Christopher but he can manage it by himself and I believe that the Hughes, rh Simon Poulter, Dr Daniel new clause is not moved. Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Pritchard, Mark Clauses 72 to 74 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Hurd, Mr Nick Pugh, John Jackson, Mr Stewart Raab, Mr Dominic The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair. Johnson, Gareth Randall, rh Sir John Bill (Clauses 1, 5 to 7, 11, 72 to 74 and 112 and Johnson, Joseph Reckless, Mark schedule 1) reported, without amendment (Standing Order Jones, Andrew Redwood, rh Mr John No. 83D(6), and ordered to lie on the Table. Jones, rh Mr David Rees-Mogg, Jacob Jones, Mr Marcus Reevell, Simon Kawczynski, Daniel Robertson, rh Hugh Business without Debate Kelly, Chris Rosindell, Andrew Kirby, Simon Rudd, Amber Knight, rh Sir Greg Ruffley, Mr David EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Kwarteng, Kwasi Russell, Sir Bob Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Lamb, Norman Rutley, David Order No. 119(11)), Lancaster, Mark Sanders, Mr Adrian Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Sandys, Laura CLIMATE AND ENERGY POLICY 2020 TO 2030 AND Laws, rh Mr David Scott, Mr Lee HIGH VOLUME HYDRAULIC FRACTURING (FRACKING) Leadsom, Andrea Sharma, Alok IN THE EU Lee, Jessica Shelbrooke, Alec That this House takes note of European Union Documents Lee, Dr Phillip Simmonds, Mark No. 5644/14 and Addenda 1 and 2, a Commission Communication: Leech, Mr John Simpson, Mr Keith A policy framework for climate and energy in the period from Lefroy, Jeremy Skidmore, Chris 2020 to 2030, No. 5706/14 and Addenda 1 to 5, a Commission Leigh, Sir Edward Smith, Chloe Communication on the exploration and production of hydrocarbons, Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Smith, Henry such as shale gas, using high volume hydraulic fracturing in the Lewis, Brandon Smith, Julian EU, and No. 5700/14, a Commission Recommendation on minimum Lewis, Dr Julian Soames, rh Nicholas principles for the exploration and production of hydrocarbons, Lilley, rh Mr Peter Soubry, Anna such as shale gas, using high volume hydraulic fracturing; supports Lloyd, Stephen Stanley, rh Sir John the Government’s objective of securing an ambitious EU emissions Long, Naomi Stevenson, John reduction target for 2030 in order to support the EU in meeting Lopresti, Jack Stewart, Bob its long-term climate and energy objectives; and further supports Loughton, Tim Stewart, Iain the Government’s objective of maintaining maximum flexibility Lumley, Karen Stride, Mel for Member States to choose their own energy mix, including by Macleod, Mary Stunell, rh Sir Andrew exploring the potential for domestic resources, in order to secure Maynard, Paul Sturdy, Julian their emissions reductions in the most cost-effective manner, McCartney, Jason Swayne, rh Mr Desmond given their particular circumstances.—(Stephen Crabb.) McCartney, Karl Swire, rh Mr Hugo Question agreed to. McIntosh, Miss Anne Syms, Mr Robert McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Thornton, Mike McPartland, Stephen Timpson, Mr Edward McVey, rh Esther Tomlinson, Justin PETITION Menzies, Mark Tredinnick, David Humberstone Heights Golf Course (Leicester) Metcalfe, Stephen Turner, Mr Andrew Mills, Nigel Tyrie, Mr Andrew Milton, Anne Uppal, Paul 7.51 pm Mordaunt, Penny Vara, Mr Shailesh Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I wish to present a Morgan, Nicky Vickers, Martin petition on behalf of a number of my constituents Morris, Anne Marie Walker, Mr Charles concerning the proposals of the city council to close Morris, James Walker, Mr Robin Humberstone Heights golf course in Leicester. Some Mosley, Stephen Wallace, Mr Ben 1,800 people have signed the petition—[Interruption.] 385 Business without Debate 9 APRIL 2014 386

Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. I Abortion (Disability) am sorry to interrupt you, Mr Vaz, but I am having difficult in hearing your presentation of the petition Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House because of the noise in the Chamber. I ask Members to do now adjourn.—(Harriett Baldwin.) leave quietly. Mr Vaz, may I suggest that you start again with the presentation of your petition? 7.55 pm Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): I thank you, Madam Keith Vaz: Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity to speak on a Speaker. I wish to present a petition on behalf of a sensitive subject. Few would disagree that Britain is a number of residents of Leicester concerning the proposal friendlier place for disabled people than it was a few to close Humberstone Heights golf club in Humberstone. decades ago—better, that is, unless we are talking about I was there last Saturday and, as you have correctly said, a disabled baby in the womb. The contrast between the it is much quieter on a golf course than it is in the way we see disabled people before and after birth could Chamber of the House of Commons. I accepted a barely be starker. A disabled unborn child has effectively petition that had been led by Mr Mark Boddice, the no rights up to birth. Many people are shocked to learn club captain, Mrs Heather Smith, the lady captain, that he or she can be aborted right up to birth—as many Mr Raj Kotak, a past captain, Paul Maurice, Alan as 16 weeks beyond the 24-week threshold for able-bodied Taylor, Jay Marsh, Tony Palmer, Ashok Mistry, Mark babies. But the moment after birth, a whole panoply of Smith, Gaz Kilby, Bruce Frazer, Colin McKenzie, Peter rights and support suddenly comes into play for the Walker, Michael Pearson and Master David Dewbery. disabled child. I know that from personal experience, It was signed by 1,800 other people who play regularly and here declare an interest. My own son, Sam, was at Humberstone Heights golf course. I am grateful to so born with a club foot, one of the defects for which an many right hon. and hon. Members, from all parts of abortion up to birth can be obtained. Yet within minutes the United Kingdom, for staying for the presentation of of his birth, the hospital telephoned its specialist in this petition. Clearly, the Humberstone Heights golf treating club feet, who was on leave at the time and who course has achieved great fame beyond Leicester, reaching rushed in within two hours to begin manipulating Sam’s the very corners of the United Kingdom. I therefore foot. wish to present this petition on their behalf. If people are able to be more involved in leisure, they will have Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): On longer and fitter lives. the issue of abortions up to birth, does my hon. Friend The petition states: share my belief that where the disability may be relatively The Petition of residents of the UK, minor—a cleft palate or something such as that—the Declares that Humberstone Heights Golf Course is a popular public would be very concerned to learn that these were leisure facility in Leicester and further that the Petitioners believe allowed literally right up to birth? that the planned closure of the Golf Course will have a detrimental impact on the local community. Fiona Bruce: Indeed I do, and I thank my hon. Friend The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons for that intervention. Although there are not many such urges the Government to encourage Leicester City Council to abortions, there are still some taking place for treatable reconsider their decision to close Humberstone Heights Golf and relatively minor defects, such as a club foot. My son Course, which is an important community facility. had physiotherapy every day for the first year of his life. And the Petitioners remain, etc. He wore a calliper in his early years and he had two [P001342] operations until into his teens, but now one would never know, unless one was a specialist, that he had been born Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) with a foot defect. Yesterday, Sam was 21, and in the (SNP): On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. past few days has heard that he has been admitted to In the last round of Divisions, I had intended to move Oxford university. It is hard to think that such a treatable new clause 7, but new clause 7 was not called, and new disability could have deprived him of life, and he is far clause 6 was called instead. I realise of course that from alone. I believe that the footballer, Steven Gerrard, human error can play its part in some of these things, was born with a club foot. but I would like your opinion on the matter. We have allowed a completely inconsistent and contradictory approach to disability to develop in this Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Mr MacNeil, country with reference to the born and unborn child, I think there was a genuine misunderstanding with and for that reason I am asking the Minister to review regard to new clauses 6 and 7. I regret to say that the the application of this legislation. To clarify, the Abortion intention was not clear to me at the time in the Chair, Act 1967 was amended in 1990 to provide for abortion and I do not feel that I can take the matter any further up to, and during, birth where there is “substantial than that, but I am sure that the record will show the risk” of “serious handicap”—often called ground E hon. Gentleman’s intention, even if that was not fulfilled abortions. But neither of those terms have statutory through to a vote because of a misunderstanding. I definitions. Instead, what constitutes “substantial risk” hope that that clarifies the matter. or “serious handicap” is left to doctors to decide, with differing outcomes across the country, and that difference can mean life or death to an unborn child. Professor Gordon Stirrat gives an example of a couple seeking abortion because of a cleft palate at 34 weeks, where there was a significant difference between doctors who refused an abortion under ground E and other doctors who interpreted the law as covering the couple’s situation. 387 Abortion (Disability)9 APRIL 2014 Abortion (Disability) 388

Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the light of all this medical, legal and cultural progress in hon. Lady on bringing this very important matter to the our society, is it not now time to review the application House for consideration. It was mentioned in Prime of the legislation? If we do not consider a disabled Minister’s questions today, for example. Does she agree person of inferior worth after birth, why do so before? that the UN convention on the rights of the child, I want now to turn to a separate point. Many women which protects the rights of children, and the Equality feel steered, pushed or even rushed into having an Act 2010, which outlaws discrimination on grounds of abortion once it is determined that they might be carrying disability, would demand that this House should change a disabled baby. Time and again I heard of that in a this grossly offensive law that allows children over 24 weeks commission that I chaired in this House last year, which to be aborted? carried out a parliamentary inquiry into abortion on the grounds of disability. A copy has been placed in the Fiona Bruce: The hon. Gentleman makes a relevant Library. The commission’s committee comprised several point. Members of both Houses and all parties with different Developments in the law, in medicine and in cultural views on abortion but a common concern about the attitudes have led me to introduce this debate. Because issue. We took oral and written evidence over several of the lack of clarification, the law is being applied in months from a total of 299 witnesses. Repeatedly, mothers what one barrister has called a haphazard fashion. In told us that they had come, as one said, 2007, the Select Committee on Science and Technology recommended that the Department of Health produce “under huge pressure to have an abortion”, guidance that would be clinically useful to doctors and because, as another said, patients in this regard, and in response the Royal College “this is the expectation of the health care professionals”. of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists provided updated guidance in 2010, but there still seems to be a considerable Other mothers told us that they were not given support difference in views and working practice about what when making the decision, or they felt fearful that they comes within the law and what does not. That is concerning would not be able to cope in future due to limited for parents, practitioners, law makers and disabled people, financial resources or community support in their locality. many of whom believe it is now time to review the One said: framework within which this law operates. “My son (who is now eight years old) has Down’s syndrome. It is hard to see the differing treatment of disabled He was diagnosed in the womb at 35 weeks and I was actively fetuses and able-bodied fetuses as anything other than encouraged to seek a termination by the doctor who gave me the discrimination, about which disability groups are diagnosis. I was given no support by my local hospital in my particularly concerned. Medical knowledge has changed decision to keep my baby. I had to actively seek support elsewhere and I’m sure you will appreciate how difficult this was as I was radically since 1990, and even more since 1967, and heavily pregnant and in a vulnerable state.” there have been improvements in fetal medicine, including the ability to correct disabilities, even within the womb Parents may find that they are given only a leaflet on before birth. abortion, with plenty of advice on having an abortion, but no information specific to the condition that has Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I, too, been diagnosed, or information about what support congratulate the hon. Lady on bringing this important they could expect if they kept the baby, or an alternative matter before the House. As the father of a disabled boy such as adoption. One said that who had eight years of a wonderful life—he had spina “choosing to keep the baby effectively meant I was on my own.” bifida and hydrocephalus, he gave much love and everybody Some mothers were made to feel irresponsible bringing who knew him loved him greatly—I join her in her plea a disabled child into the world on the basis that the for an end to discrimination against children in the child would be a drain on public resources. Many felt womb who are disabled. She makes an important point guilty about allowing their disabled child to be born. about developments in medical treatment, even within Recently we heard how distressed mothers were in the womb, especially in the area of spina bifida. Leeds general infirmary when they felt under pressure to abort babies with treatable heart defects. Was it ever Fiona Bruce: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for Parliament’s intention that a treatable condition should that intervention. He makes a pertinent point. Disabled come within the scope of ground E? children can enjoy life and can give great joy to their families. Even disabilities such as Down’s syndrome We also heard from a doctor, Mr Jayamohan, about cover a very wide spectrum and we need to remember particularly good practice such as counselling; expert that. When mothers and fathers hear the news about a support from trained clinicians; the provision of information child’s diagnosis with fetal disability, it is important that about the child’s potential disability and treatment; the they are given information about the spectrum and offer to speak to another family with a child with a about their options. similar condition; palliative care; and the opportunity We have seen changes in neonatal intensive care, to meet specialists as soon as possible after diagnosis, palliative care, paediatric surgery, educational care and and so on, to enable parents to make their decision. One community support. Conditions that might previously parent said: have been grounds for abortion are now treatable, and “Guidelines and standards need to be set in place, which all attitudes towards people with disabilities have moved hospitals need to meet, to ensure all families are given support on on greatly. education of disabilities when faced with such a situation. To give a family a diagnosis of a disability and then to immediately follow As has been mentioned, the Equality Act 2010 protects that up with the advice that they can have a termination without disabled people from being treated differently or any other information is simply not acceptable in a civilised discriminated against as a result of their disability. In society”. 389 Abortion (Disability)9 APRIL 2014 Abortion (Disability) 390

[Fiona Bruce] this way. These are arguments open to anyone who values human life and deplores discrimination against Does the Minister agree that there is a need for better, disabled people. more consistent, balanced information, trained counsellors, My final request of the Minister is whether she would increased awareness of palliative care for newborns, be good enough to take time after this debate to consider and comprehensive information and support from the the 2013 parliamentary inquiry into abortion on the medical profession, whatever parents’ decision about grounds of disability and respond to the recommendations the pregnancy? Would she consider developing best within it, not all of which I have been able to touch on practice guidelines to encompass that? tonight for reasons of time. We even heard of misdiagnoses. Parents told the commission about diagnoses that had proved to be 8.12 pm incorrect. One said that “we were advised my daughter be aborted up to birth due to the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health results of an antenatal test. The most serious result indicated (Jane Ellison): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member Dandy Walker Malformation of the brain. In fact when scanned for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) on securing a debate on after birth there was no such malformation. Our daughter is now this subject, in which she has a long-standing interest. 6 years old and a happy normal child.” She made a very personal, moving and thoughtful Mr Jayamohan told the commission that of 32 post- speech to which we all listened intently. I thank other mortems of late-stage terminations he had examined, Members for their interventions. I know that there are two indicated that the diagnosis had been profoundly views on this issue that are deeply and strongly held. wrong. It is worth remembering that these are wanted I am aware of the independent inquiry into abortion babies, and parents who choose an abortion suffer grief on the grounds of disability, which my hon. Friend from their loss. As one has said, it is a chaired and which reported in 2013. Although I was not “bereavement like any other person”. in post at that time, I have looked at the report. I have Last year, more than half of ground E abortions were not had a chance to look at all the detail, but I have seen diagnosed by ultrasound alone, which I understand can some of the recommendations. I have responses to one carry a 10% to 15% rate of false positive diagnosis, or two of the recommendations that she highlighted. As meaning that of the 1,367 ground E abortions diagnosed she knows, I will always go away and look at the points by ultrasound in 2012, as many as 200 may have been she has made, and those that I cannot cover tonight I falsely diagnosed. What steps are in place to help the will of course write or talk to her about. Department assess the accuracy of prenatal diagnostics? Obviously, the House remains divided on the issue of Should not all be done that can be done to reduce the abortion, which is a very personal matter. A number of option of an abortion where it is not necessary or concerns have recently been raised that we in the wanted? To that end, does the Minister agree that Department are working hard to address. On some improvements need to be made in data collection, as issues, such as abortion on the grounds of gender alone, there seem to be weaknesses, gaps and limitations in the there is a strong parliamentary consensus. My hon. collection of information on abortions that take place Friend has raised this with me in the House and in due to disability. One professor has described it as “very private, and we are working hard to deal with it. In inaccurate”. We should be collating more information other areas of abortion law, there are a range of views on the reasons for abortion beyond 24 weeks and analysing and differing interpretations. such data appropriately. We should consider a report to It is crucial that everyone, regardless of their views on a coroner for all late-term abortions and carefully consider abortion, feels assured that the law on abortion is the need for post-mortems. There should be a national operating as Parliament intends. This is particularly register for all congenital abnormalities, not just for important for clinicians directly involved in certifying Down’s syndrome. All this would help to improve future and performing abortions, who need to know that they diagnosis and, I hope, lead to lower numbers of abortions. are operating within the law, and for women seeking an Let me touch on the increasing concern about fetal abortion, who need access to safe, legal, high-quality pain. A new scientific consensus is emerging that babies abortion services. I recently had discussions with the in the womb can feel pain, even from 20 weeks—certainly, General Medical Council and the Royal College of as seems incontrovertible, from about 26 weeks. Yet we Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, and we will be publishing permit disabled babies to be aborted at up to 40 weeks. strengthened guidance and revised procedures for the One mother, when asked whether her child would feel approval of independent sector places. That puts the pain, was told, “He’s going to feel it.” Is it because we debate into some context. believe that disabled babies do not feel pain, or because In 1990, Parliament decided that in some circumstances we do not care that they do, that we allow abortion at abortion should be available without time limit, including up to 40 weeks for them? During the passage of the Bill abortion where that became the Human Fertilisation and Embryology “there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would Act 2008, the age of viability was agreed at 24 weeks; it suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously can of course be even younger. Why does this threshold handicapped.” not apply to the disabled? I should clarify that abortions for fetal abnormality are The logical corollary is that society is saying that listed as ground D in the Abortion Act 1967 but are set disabled babies who can survive outside the womb out differently in the regulations and certification forms, should not be allowed to do so. I cannot escape the where they are listed as ground E. The grounds in the conclusion that this is discriminatory. It simply cannot regulations are those most commonly referred to, but be right that, as a society that purports to respect that is why there is sometimes a discrepancy with regard disabled people, we act to prevent their very existence in to grounds D and E. 391 Abortion (Disability)9 APRIL 2014 Abortion (Disability) 392

In 2012, it was reported that 2,692 abortions had some information from the guidelines. I have regular taken place under ground E of the regulations and that conversations with RCOG representatives and will raise 160 of them took place at gestations beyond 24 weeks. her point with them. There is no absence of guidance, It is important to note, as my hon. Friend has said, that but she is clearly concerned that it might be being Parliament did not define “serious handicap” in the inconsistently applied. Act. Indeed, it chose to leave it to the expert clinical RCOG has published guidance for its members on judgment of the two doctors involved, who were required terminations for fetal abnormality. It notes that palliative to form their own opinion about the seriousness of the and other care must be made available to women who handicap the child would suffer when born, taking into decide to continue with their pregnancy. The guidance account the facts and circumstances of each individual also makes clear to women and their partners that they case. should receive appropriate information and support Some Members have expressed the view that the Act from a properly trained, multidisciplinary team who and, in particular, the provision that allows abortion on must adopt a supportive and non-judgmental approach, the grounds of disability should be revisited. Of course, regardless of whether the decision is to terminate or to by convention it is for parliamentarians, not the continue the pregnancy. Support for parents faced with Government, to suggest amendments to the legislation, a similar diagnosis is available through the charity but that does not mean that the Government do not Antenatal Results and Choices. reflect carefully on any points made and there will be The RCOG guidance also states that women and opportunities to provide clarification in some areas their partners must be fully supported before screening through guidelines. for fetal abnormality and during any decision that they Concerns have been expressed, not least this evening, may need to make about termination, as well as in that abortions are taking place for abnormalities that continuing the pregnancy following a screening and are rectifiable after birth. The Act requires doctors to during any aftercare. That should include referral to assess the level of risk that the child would suffer from other professional experts, including palliative experts, serious handicap if it were born. It should be noted that as I have mentioned, and referral for counselling, where conditions such as cleft lip and palate, which have been it can be part of a co-ordinated package of care. I will mentioned this evening, can in some circumstances be of course put my hon. Friend’s concerns about that not an indicator of far more serious problems with the being consistently applied to RCOG, which I am sure fetus. will want to consider that matter. However, as I have said, RCOG has looked to address the issues, and I The availability of remedial treatment that might know that it is aware of her commission of inquiry and alleviate suffering is obviously a factor that doctors will its report. take into account in making their assessment. Guidance from RCOG states that the assessment of serious handicap My hon. Friend mentioned adoption. That is a matter should be based on a careful consideration of a list of for the Department for Education, but I will of course factors, one of which is the probability of effective draw the concerns she has raised in this debate to its treatment either in utero or after birth. RCOG already attention. says that that must be taken into account. However, the With regard to information, the RCOG guidance fact that remedial treatment may be available does not does not make specific reference to the element of the automatically mean that it will be successful, and the life ahead that the child might have, but that is a matter child may suffer from a serious handicap. Remedial for RCOG and other professional and training bodies, treatment may be prolonged and painful. such as Health Education England, to take forward in I firmly believe, and I hope my hon. Friend will agree, their training procedures. Again, I undertake to bring that such decisions are exceptionally difficult ones for that point to their attention. patients, women and parents to make, and that they are On my hon. Friend’s concerns about a discrepancy often finely balanced. Doctors and other professionals between the numbers, I know that the independent need to work hard to ensure that parents are properly inquiry recommended that funding should be made supported and have all the information they need to available to ensure that there are independent congenital come to a decision. I think we all share my hon. Friend’s anomaly registers covering all congenital anomalies concern that some people have reported feeling rushed across the whole country. She made another point about and that they have not been given proper information. inconsistency. I can confirm that work is under way to Ultimately, such decisions should be taken on a case-by-case support the increased coverage of congenital anomaly basis and always according to the Act. registers across the whole of England. That work is led by Public Health England. I have regular meetings with Fiona Bruce: Will the Minister confirm that she will Public Health England, and I will draw to its attention look at the production of best practice guidelines, because Parliament’s interest in this matter. I undertake to update there is a clear indication that practice differs across the her on the progress of that work. piece? If she agrees that we should give every mother My hon. Friend made several other points. If she will and father in this situation the best possible opportunity excuse me, I will come back to her about fetal pain. to make the right decision, appropriate guidelines, which RCOG has looked at and written about fetal pain in do not appear to exist in a functional format at present, some detail, and has offered guidance about it. I will would be the best approach. revert to her on that, as well as on some of the other matters that she raised about which I cannot now Jane Ellison: I will certainly reflect on that point. comment in any detail. RCOG has published best practice guidelines and I am I thank my hon. Friend for her very thoughtful sure it would be concerned to hear that my hon. Friend speech, for drawing the attention of the whole House feels they are being inconsistently applied. I will give her to this issue and for how she expressed the potential 393 Abortion (Disability)9 APRIL 2014 Abortion (Disability) 394

[Jane Ellison] such difficult and sensitive debates. I will return to her with more detail when I have given her points further that people have in their lives. I think that the whole consideration. House was thrilled to hear the story she told about Question put and agreed to. her own family, and to hear about the great success that her son has enjoyed. I congratulate her on securing this 8.22 pm debate, and on the tone in which she always conducts House adjourned. 63WH 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 64WH (Wales) Last week, at our request, a senior representative of Westminster Hall Capita met some Welsh Labour MPs. To our horror, in answer to our questions we were told that the company originally thought that assessments would take “around Wednesday 9 April 2014 an hour”; in reality they take between two and two and a half hours. In the same meeting, again in answer to our questions, Members were told that Capita estimated [ALBERT OWEN in the Chair] it would need to assess 70% of applicants face to face. We were told that that figure is closer to 99%. How Personal Independence Payments (Wales) could those figures be so wrong? Where was that clarification from the Department for Work and Pensions Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting before the contract—paid for by public money, I remind be now adjourned.—(John Penrose.) the House—was granted?

9.30 am Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Like many other Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): Diolch yn hon. Members I could cite cases to reinforce the point fawr, Mr Owen. It is a pleasure to serve under your about MPs being used by the company to solve issues. chairmanship. I am pleased to have secured this debate Does my hon. Friend hope that the Minister will tear up on personal independent payments in Wales. It is an the parts of his speech that may have been provided by important debate for many of our constituents, including officials about the general background to personal many of the most vulnerable, who are being failed by independence payments policy, and that he will focus the system. I hope that hon. Members here today will instead on the failure of the past year, and the suffering share cases from their constituencies and that we will that constituents have gone through because of that get some action from the Government. incompetence? He should explain what has happened and what will be done in future, and apologise to those I could, like other hon. Members, share with the constituents—who are often the most vulnerable—for House many accounts given to me by constituents of the suffering inflicted on them. their experiences. I will begin with one told to me by a lady from Gwynfryn in my constituency, who was diagnosed with breast cancer on 22 August. After fighting through Susan Elan Jones: I agree wholeheartedly with my two rounds of surgery, and showing continued strength hon. Friend. through chemotherapy, she approached me in January The Minister may be heartened to hear me mention a to see if there was any help that my staff and I could previous Prime Minister, Baroness Thatcher, who used offer her. My constituent had applied for personal to say she believed we should run the national budget independence payments soon after her diagnosis. She like a household budget. Leaving aside our views on the knew she would be unfit to work and that she would politics of the late Baroness, perhaps we can use that need financial support through a difficult time. She analogy here, to look at the scandal of the joint DWP received a response from Capita and waited her turn, and Capita mess that has been made with our money. hoping that the backlog would clear. My constituent is We might imagine Capita as a firm of builders hired for still not receiving PIP—or any financial support; and a two-week job at an agreed daily rate, but which has she is still undergoing chemotherapy. already taken a month and is still nowhere near finishing. Capita’s own information pack, given to applicants, If I or many of my constituents had hired those builders, states that assessments should be made within they would be out on their ear. What if Capita were a “approximately 28 days.” I think we can all agree that local charity, such as the type I used to manage before I my constituent—like many other people in a similar became an MP: the local organisation that has to negotiate position—has waited long enough. The current with a local authority or other body for a service level Government have instituted a system in Wales that is agreement? We can imagine the conversation: “We are meant to offer advice and assessment, and to provide not seeing the agreed number of clients; we are not support, but it is failing woefully. The absurd situation getting things done on time,” and so on. If a small or in my constituency is that Department for Work and medium-sized voluntary or community group, dealing Pensions staff are advising local people to get in touch with the council or another external body, was in that with me to see whether I can help the process along with position, the agreement would be terminated. Capita. Government employees are advising my constituents Yet we are not talking about one household and an to contact me, as their elected official, to put pressure incompetent builder, or a small or medium-sized charity on a body that was instituted by the current Government working with a council. We are talking about a failure, and is paid for by taxpayers the length and breadth of paid for by the tax-paying public and being subsidised the country. massively on a multi-million pound basis. It is time that Capita, of course, is an external body—a registered someone, somehow, somewhere—preferably the company that is independent in how it chooses to run Government—carried the can for what has happened as itself. However, it is clearly failing to adhere to guidelines the result of a deal between a private company and the on processing dates and fulfilling contractual duties, Government, which is not working. Capita has not and it is letting down those who desperately need support. delivered on its contract with the Department for Work That is not good enough. Dim digon da. The Tory-led and Pensions. It has time and again displayed the fact Government decided to place Capita in charge of PIP that it is letting people down. At what point will the assessments in Wales and allowed that system to be put Government stand up, take notice of the constituents in place without any serious pilot scheme. That cannot who are asking for help, and take action on an issue that be right. is becoming more serious with every passing day? 65WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 66WH (Wales) (Wales) [Susan Elan Jones] Mike Penning: I really hope that the debate this morning does not deteriorate. I am not that sort of In Penycae, another village in my constituency, a Minister. I genuinely want to help. I do not really mind constituent suffers from terrible arthritis throughout who is in the Chamber; it is a question of whether we her body, and is on lifelong medication as a result. Until can get PIP right. Of course I will take up any cases that last year, my constituent held a responsible, white-collar are raised here today, as I do on a regular basis when job. In June, her contract was terminated for reasons of constituents write to me; the hon. Lady has also written medical capability. One would think that at that point to me many times. she would receive support, but since she left her job in June she has been waiting on PIP. She has been waiting for Capita. She is completely unable to work and that Susan Elan Jones: I assure the Minister that I want has been confirmed by her GP and by hospital consultants. this issue sorted, and I am only sorry that it has not My constituent can provide personal reports, X-rays been sorted sooner. and supporting documents that make it crystal clear I am of course aware that assessments are complicated. that she is entitled, in need and completely genuine; I am under no illusions that such systems are easy to there is no doubt about it. run, and they are not simple to understand. I am clear, Why, then, is the system failing my constituent and so however, that Capita is being given public money to many others like her across Wales? The Government’s provide a service. I called for the debate today because fact sheet on personal independence payments says: my constituents are being left without any information “PIP is to help towards some of the extra costs arising from a about their cases; they are waiting on calls that are not health condition or disability.” returned; and they have no way of highlighting their situation, complaining or seeking help. That is why they PIP, the replacement for disability living allowance put are coming to me and to other Members of Parliament. in place by the current Government, can be anything from £21 to £134 a week. It can be used to cover I was also shocked to learn that Capita has not even transport, care and all sorts of other costs that can be set up an official hotline for MPs. When constituents vital to those who are disabled or sick. By the Government’s come to me about problems with other public bodies, I own admission, PIP is support for people when they are am able to contact someone quickly. That is part of our unable to work because of a health condition or disability job as Members of Parliament, and the hotlines provided and need financial help. That is what the Government to MPs are an important part of the contact system. say PIP is, and that is what they claim Capita is providing. Capita, the company providing PIP assessments for the The constituent I mentioned is still waiting for any entirety of Wales, does not provide such a service. When kind of financial help. She is receiving no level of care pushed, I was given a number, but it was made clear to from Capita or any other Government body. Since me that it was not an official hotline. I am loth to bring being forced to leave her job in June, she has been up Atos in this debate. The Government recently scrapped completely outside the system and is without any financial the contract with Atos because it was not delivering, support. As a result, my constituent has lost her bank but even Atos had an official hotline set up and working. account and is experiencing the attention of debt recovery The debate is not simply about backlogged services services. For Capita to tell someone like my constituent and Capita not estimating correctly or preparing adequately. from Penycae that her case is in the queue, that a It is clear from Capita’s entire handling of PIP assessments backlog is being experienced and that someone will “get that it was not the right company for the job. How much to her when they can”—I believe those were the exact public money is being spent every single day by the words—is absolutely not good enough. My constituent Government on the service? How much public money is cannot wait another few months for money to come in. being spent on this company that is not returning calls? She needs it now. In fact, she has needed it since June, How much public money is being spent on this company when she first applied. How many people can seriously that is forcing cancer sufferers to cross their fingers be expected to live for nine or 10 months without any through massive delays? How much public money is income? Yet that is what is happening in her case. being spent on this company while it forces those too sick to work into debt? The Minister of State, Department for Work and To return to our analogy with household economics, Pensions (Mike Penning): It is right and proper that this Capita is not the slow or dodgy builder, or the little debate is taking place, but PIP is not the only form of charity worrying how it will see all the people it needs to benefits; it is a benefit on top of other benefits. No see because it has two people off sick one month; income at all, which is what the hon. Lady said, is ever Capita is supplying all the contracts for PIP assessment so slightly—I respectfully say—misleading. I accept in Wales, which is a multi-million pound contract. Capita that there is an issue, which I will come on to in my is the middleman, the company between the doctor and response, but the lady to whom she referred would have financial support—in many ways, it is the company been able to get other benefits. between the hospital and the debt collector. At the moment, we are not seeing it provide such a bridge or, in many cases, any bridge at all. Susan Elan Jones: I would be delighted to put the Minister in contact with my constituent or, indeed, with Over and over again, the Government have said that all the current cases I have, and they could rightfully they need to save money, and yet they are spending have that debate. PIP is a huge issue. I am sure that he is millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money on a company rather sorry that there are absolutely no Government that is not delivering on its contract. At what point do Members here to defend him, so he has to do a little of the Government step in to ensure that the service is his own work on that score this morning. being provided? 67WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 68WH (Wales) (Wales) Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): One of my disabled penalties not been imposed? The company has the constituents was given a two-week assessment slot that carrot of profits, but it also needs the stick of enforcement. had already elapsed. According to the media, civil servants It has not had that so far. are now helping Capita to deal with the backlog. Does The number of staff required was totally underestimated. my hon. Friend agree that this botched benefit is causing Capita told us last week that it initially put in place 140, nothing but distress throughout the country, and that but it now needs to take that to 450—a tripling of staff. the implementation of PIP has been a total shambles? In fact, it cannot find the staff. I have an advert in my hand, placed in the Llandudno press: Capita is looking Susan Elan Jones: I agree wholeheartedly with my for hon. Friend. Indeed, when the Prime Minister announced “qualified Nurses, Occupational Therapists, Paramedics, Physiotherapists that the system would change to migrate those on …Disability Assessors” disability living allowance to a personal independence to work in Llandudno. There is not one mention of staff payment, surely that was not part of the promises he who can deal with mental health issues. Fifty per cent. made. When PIP was first introduced last year, surely of the cases are muscular-skeletal, but 50% are mental the waiting times, the missed calls and the assessments health cases. for which staff have failed even to turn up were not part of the deal. In the debate today and whenever we Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend discuss PIP in Wales, we are talking about real people— share my surprise that those staff were not in place people with serious health conditions and real individuals when Capita was awarded the contract? with real families, who are desperately struggling. I am certain that it is hard enough to fight cancer Chris Ruane: Again, things come down to due diligence without having to fight Capita and, by extension, the and to the assessment of the problem by the Government Department for Work and Pensions. Capita is letting when awarding the contract. In addition, in the north down people in real need. The Government are letting Wales situation, there was no mention of staff who can struggling people down by not stepping in and getting deal with mental health issues. the mess sorted out. Waiting times for assessment have We talk about the vast numbers of people affected, so been so long that, in some cases, people with terminal let us consider who they are. One of my constituents conditions have died before receiving a penny—and yet who had mental health problems was told that she Capita remains in place and the Department for Work could not have an assessment in her own home. She and Pensions has not even imposed a fine. This is a lives in north Wales, but she was told to go to the scandal of national proportions. nearest assessment centre—in Cardiff. It takes me two Some of the most vulnerable people in Wales are hours and 36 minutes to get from Rhyl to London, but I being let down—and yet every single taxpayer throughout could almost have gone from Rhyl to London and back our land is being asked to foot the bill for a totally again in the time that it would take that lady simply to inadequate service. For the sake of my constituents in get down to Cardiff. Would the Minister send someone Gwynfryn and Penycae, and people everywhere in Wales, from London up to Cumbria for an assessment test, I urge the Government to take action now. It is time because those are the time scales that we are talking that the Department for Work and Pensions did its job. about? That shows total disregard for the individuals And it is time that the relationship with Capita was involved. sorted out, or for that company to be given the boot. Another individual in my constituency, who is wheelchair-bound, waited for six months, but her case had still not been sorted out. In that time, there were 9.45 am knock-on effects to other benefits and funding was taken off her; she lost her mobility allowance and so she Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): Thank you for lost her car. There she was, with mental health issues, in calling me so early in the debate, Mr Owen. I apologise, a wheelchair and stuck in a house. Things that help but I will have to leave early because at 10 o’clock I have people with mental health issues include visiting relatives, to chair a meeting on congenital heart disease in children. joining voluntary organisations, going to a place of There is no doubt that the Capita scheme for the worship and getting out in nature, none of which she personal independence payment is in total disarray and could do because her car was taken away. All the things that the Government must shoulder the blame. They that could have helped her were taken away from her by drew up the service level agreements and they need to Government action, or inaction. fix the PIP—and quickly. When the Government were The rules for the terminally ill suggest that if they drawing up those agreements, did they estimate the have seven months left to live, they are pestered and correct average time that would be spent assessing each hounded, but if they have six months left, they will be case? They said it would take one hour, but Capita—we left alone. That should not be the case. We should spoke to the company last week—is taking two or three prioritise the people— hours. Was the estimate realistic? The travelling times experienced by our constituents Mike Penning: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? in getting to the assessment centres and the number of face-to-face assessments set by the Government are all Chris Ruane: No, I will not give way. totally unrealistic. Did the Government show due diligence? Did they correctly assess Capita’s ability to deal with Mike Penning: The hon. Gentleman is being misleading. high volumes of cases? Were the service level agreements strict enough? Also, if my hon. Friend the Member for Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. No one is misleading Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) is correct, why have anyone. 69WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 70WH (Wales) (Wales) Mike Penning: I am sorry, Mr Owen; I am sure that For those six months they have been living off savings was unintentional. This is rightly a passionate debate. I to help them to adapt to their conditions. The prospect have referred in previous discussions to 28 days for of a backdated payment is of no comfort to them as terminal illness. That was completely unacceptable, and they struggle with day-to-day tasks that many of us it was 10 days under disability living allowance. I told take for granted, while their families suffer under the the Select Committee that the period would be below stress and strain of caring for them. 10 days. That is where we are now, and that will continue. In some of the cases processed by Capita, health care Chris Ruane: The Minister talks about how things reports have not been up to standard and further should happen; we are talking about how things are information has been required. That involved going happening. Capita, which took the Government’s back to the assessor and requesting further information. instructions, visited us last week and told us what I have In one case, a second face-to-face assessment was required, just said. Perhaps the company got it wrong, but if it and in one astonishing instance it came to light in did the Minister should ask why the Government awarded March 2014 that despite the assessment being carried a contract to a company that does not understand the out in November 2013, no assessment report had been basic rules of dealing with the dying. prepared by the assessor. Those constituents’ misery and distress seems to have no end. I will move on. It is not just Labour Back Benchers from Wales who are raising the matter. The National The protracted ordeal is just to get the assessment Audit Office has said that report from Capita to the Department for Work and “the Department did not allow enough time to test whether the Pensions. As the assessment reports start to trickle assessment process could handle large numbers of claims. As a through to the Department, the emerging trend is of result of this poor early operational performance, claimants face further delays in the final decision after the report has long and uncertain delays and the Department has had to delay reached the Department. So after months of waiting the wider roll-out of the programme. Because it may take…time with Capita, applicants face further delays, and that to resolve the delays, the Department has increased the risk that only adds to their misery. the programme will not deliver value for money in the longer term.” I raised with Capita and the Department a case that The programme was introduced to cut costs by £2.6 billion. encapsulates the ordeal. A constituent made his original The National Audit Office is now saying that because of application on 5 July 2013 after suffering a serious brain the terms and conditions and the fact that the rules were seizure, a stroke and several other seizures. He returned not set properly in the first place, value for money in the to work initially, but because of his mobility problems longer term—the whole raison d’être for the initiative—will he could not continue. He underwent a home assessment be undermined. The NAO continued: on 15 October 2013, and made numerous calls to the Department for Work and Pensions to chase up the “A far higher proportion of new claims than was expected contained information that conflicted with existing data on the progress of his application. Every time, he was referred claimant held by DWP, leading to delays in processing new to Capita because the report had not been sent, but he claims…Claimants were taking longer than expected to return was told that claim forms”. “the report is in the final stages with a senior healthcare professional”. That should have been predicted and there should have One event epitomises his situation. He woke up one been research before the contract was issued. The failings morning and asked his wife to leave him in bed as he are the failings of this Government, and the Minister was feeling unwell. Shortly after she left for work at may have to fess up and say that he got it wrong. I ask 8 o’clock in the morning, he suffered a series of convulsions him to be open, truthful and to sort out this terrible that lasted approximately 30 minutes. He had difficulty problem. breathing and removing his continuous positive airway pressure mask, which he has to wear because of obstructive 9.52 am sleep apnoea and the danger of a stroke or heart attack. Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve He was unable to get out of bed for the rest of the day under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. I apologise at the until his wife came home at 4.30. He did not eat or outset for having to leave immediately after I finish drink all day and had to urinate into a bottle. speaking, to undertake an official appointment relating My constituent’s wife is caring for him but because he to my duties as a former Secretary of State for Northern has no income from PIP she is at the point of utter Ireland. I will not hear the Minister’s reply, but I will of exhaustion. The decision to award the benefit is vital to course read it. enable his wife to give him the proper care and supervision In the short time since personal independence payments he needs. Until a decision is made, the couple cannot have come into force, it has quickly become evident that arrange that care, and their life is in limbo. In March, the system is miserably failing people and leaving some my constituent finally received his decision notice, only of the most vulnerable in our communities in absolute to be informed at the end of the month that a stop had desperation. My Neath constituency has one of the been put on his payment—a decision that could not be highest rates of take-up of the old disability living explained when he phoned DWP. It has now been nine allowance, a legacy of the industrial heritage that once months and he has not received a payment. DWP’s provided livelihoods for many of my constituents, but decision notice states that he is owed a back payment of has now resulted in serious health problems—a heavy more than £5,000. He has been let down by Capita and price to pay. the Department for Work and Pensions as his anguish New applicants face a system of delay and despair. goes on. Many constituents have been waiting six months or In another case, the application was made in June longer, having had their face-to-face assessments and 2013. The report from Capita was eventually received been told, frustratingly, that by DWP on 13 February, but a decision has still not “the report is in the final stages with a senior healthcare professional.” been made. The claimant told me: 71WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 72WH (Wales) (Wales) “I have no confidence that the process will ever end, there is I know that that feeling goes across the House. The always one more stage, one more delay.” reason that we pay our taxes is to support vulnerable That sentiment is felt by many who have lost faith, people. which is a dreadful stain on the Department for Work The Government chose to change the system and and Pensions, where I served as Secretary of State. they must take responsibility for that choice. They The excruciating stress and anxiety is hitting people chose the company that would deliver the system, and seriously, including cancer sufferers and ex-servicemen they must take responsibility for that choice. The system with post traumatic stress disorder. Ministers should be does not work. We, as Members of Parliament, are ashamed of the system, which is punitive, nasty and representing constituents and making telephone calls to causes abject despair to far too many people. the Department for Work and Pensions and to Capita, and dealing with cases to give people their entitlement. Kevin Brennan: To emphasise the dilemma facing our It is not something that they do not deserve—it is their constituents, I should say that in a similar case in my entitlement. We want a system, and they deserve a constituency a women who suffered a stroke made an system, that is satisfactory and that works. application in June 2013, and has just received the I have respect for the Minister. He has responded to benefit. Her husband elected to reduce his hours at the issues and individual cases that I have raised with work as a result of which they lost the tax credits that him, but the Department has introduced a number of they were entitled to, so they went into even deeper different systems that are causing enormous distress to problems as a result of the unacceptable delays. vulnerable people in our constituencies. It must start taking responsibility, because the people whom we represent Mr Hain: My hon. Friend makes an important point. deserve to be supported. To date, there is no indication I am not going to make personal attacks on Ministers whatever that the situation is going to change. The because they probably believe they are doing a professional strength of feeling expressed in this debate is clear and job, but I sometimes wonder whether they have any idea sets out to the Government and to the Minister the of what is happening on the ground as a result of their depth of anger that there is in our constituency offices. policies. Will the Minister please take on board the individual If the Atos debacle taught us anything, it is the cases? We are working on behalf of those constituents importance of getting the decision right in the first and we hope he will, too. However, will he also look at place—in my constituency, the local welfare rights unit the system? If the system continues to fail, and if it had an 80% success rate with its appeals against Atos’s continues to fail those individuals, we will begin to decisions—but that should not mean waiting unacceptably doubt the Government’s motivation in supplying the long times such as six, seven or eight months for a system. We will begin to ask whether they actually want decision that could dramatically affect somebody’s life to support vulnerable people, or whether this is all and income. Action must be taken immediately to address about saving money in order to ensure that those individuals this inexplicably lengthy and prolonged system that is do not have support, and will wait and wait and eventually causing misery and despair for applicants. The turnaround go away. They deserve our support, and I hope that the of applications must be drastically accelerated by both Government will change their approach and give it to the assessment provider and the Department. them.

Several hon. Members rose— 10.4 am

Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. Five Members are Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): I congratulate indicating that they wish to speak, three of whom have my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan done so in writing. I need to call the Front-Bench Elan Jones) on securing this very important debate and Members at 10.40 am, so I ask Members to be disciplined on an excellent contribution that clearly laid out the with their time. difficulties that people in Wales are experiencing with PIPs. The difficulties with the PIP process are all the more 10 am excruciating to witness—let alone go through—because Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): I will be brief, Mr Owen, in all the debates we had over the work capability because I think it is very important that the Minister assessments in the past, Ministers were repeatedly asked hears from as many Members as possible. I have a list in how they would ensure that the PIP process was fit for front of me of cases involving my constituents who purpose. I certainly asked, and the reply from the then have come to me. I raised the issue initially with the Minister, the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria Minister through written questions back in January, Miller), was that we should not worry. She said that the and I have raised it in the Chamber, too. This is a Department was working with more than 50 disability massive problem for those individuals. We have heard organisations and that about a number of individual cases already, and rather “we will ensure that it is very much fit for purpose.”—[Official than recounting individual cases in Wrexham, I will Report, 24 October 2011; Vol. 534, c. 22.] make a brief point about competence and responsibility. Clearly, that is not the case. The personal independence payment system was Like the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) I introduced by this Government—by the Conservatives want to say to the Minister, please do not underestimate and their Liberal Democrat allies—and the system has the very real, palpable fear out there about the change failed. Individuals come to our constituency offices in from the disability living allowance to PIPs. That was great personal distress. They are the type of individuals brought home to me by a constituent called Richard, whom we want to see supported by our tax system, and who has cerebral palsy. He has a range of care needs 73WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 74WH (Wales) (Wales) [Jessica Morden] As my hon. Friend said, a representative from Capita met Welsh MPs last week and admitted that the key and has been fretting about this process for about a assumptions in its business case had been wrong. They year. I know that he will get PIPs almost automatically, said that the face-to-face assessments took two and a but although I have repeatedly tried to reassure him half hours, not one hour. It took longer to train assessors through my office and through the agencies that work than they thought, and to the Minister’s credit, he and with him, he is still extremely stressed about it. I say to other Ministers have admitted delays at their end, too. the Minister that that is the backdrop we are working This week, we heard in Wales that DWP civil servants with. There have been repeated changes to the welfare will be drafted in to help process the applications. I system that are hitting people in multiple ways, and it is welcome both the fact that the Department will help terrifying for people. out and the recommendations from the Select Committee I am not alone in seeing constituents who are experiencing on Work and Pensions that the Department closely lengthy delays at every stage of the PIP process. They examine its systems. I particularly urge the Minister to are waiting for the forms from the DWP following the look for Wales to delay the roll-out until the backlog part 1 process on the telephone. A lot of constituents has been cleared. That is crucial, particularly in Wales, are having difficulties with the part 2 forms. If those are where we have so many DLA recipients. not returned, it seems that people fall out of the system, I know that the Minister has admitted that all is not which seems to be a particular problem for people with well, but it would be helpful if he could say in his mental health issues. If they just cannot cope with the winding-up speech how much of what has happened is part 2 form, what happens to them? I know that they the DWP and how much is Capita, because there are are supposed to be followed up by Capita, but that does delays at both ends. What is the backlog in Wales not seem to be the case. currently? If we are moving to paper-based decisions People are then waiting months for an assessment. in Wales in future, which perhaps might be piloted in When they finally have one, it takes an inordinate Wales, can we at least understand that there will not be amount of time for Capita to process the assessment, further difficulties with that process and get assurances generate a report and hand it over to the DWP for the from the Minister on that point? decision. That was confirmed by Newport citizens advice bureau, which has had more than 30 cases waiting for about five months for a decision and two cases waiting 10.9 am for seven months. It also puts an extreme strain on Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): It is a pleasure advice workers, who are already struggling with cuts to serve under you in the Chair, Mr Owen. My hon. and struggling to be able to support people. They are Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) finding that doing so is a great difficulty. made a powerful case about some of the problems that I saw a woman who had to wait seven months for her people are facing. I am sure that all of us in this decision. We only got the decision after an intervention Chamber want to see people getting back to work if from my office, and I dread to think how long it might they are able to do so, but none of us wants to see have taken otherwise. That was seven months of stress whatever ill or disabled people suffer from being made and anxiety—Capita apologises for the delays, but it is worse because of all the stress and anguish of the not good enough. Like my hon. Friend the Member for process that we are discussing. Clwyd South, I saw another lady who applied in July We have all heard of vital paperwork not being sent and was not assessed until November, and in one phone out, delays of up to six months and longer, medical call to Capita she was told that if she wanted to speed assessments being cancelled at the drop of a hat and things up or wanted any progress to be made she should even people not being told that their assessment will not contact her MP, which is clearly ridiculous. take place. Then, when the process has been gone In addition to the delays, a lot of paperwork, including through, some people are being told that they should important reports, seems to be lost between Capita and never have gone through the process in the first place, the DWP. There are call centres with no named contact, because of what they suffer from. so people are repeatedly calling back and are not able to My hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd get to anyone who understands their case, and there is (Chris Ruane), who unfortunately has had to leave the poor communication. All in all, it is an infuriating Chamber, touched on mental health. That is a particular experience for the constituent. area of concern. We are talking about people whose I know that the Government will say that there are lives are already difficult enough without some of the teething problems, but as today’s debate shows, it is problems that the Government are now forcing on important that the Minister realises some of the them. We see people who are literally in tears. They do consequences that the situation has on people’s lives. A not understand what is happening to them and are constituent of mine had to rack up debt on credit cards worried at every stage of the process. People are even and sell his car while waiting for his wife’s claim to be saying to me, “Mr Tami, if I attend the interview, will processed. He happened to be a taxi driver, so you can that be held against me?” I say no, but they are worried; imagine the financial strain that has put the family they are scared. They do not understand why their under, Mr Owen. Another constituent was left in debt money is being stopped, why this is happening to them. as she waited for her claim to be processed. She had We are making people ill by doing this; there is no point direct debits and no money in her account, and she now in pretending otherwise. I have been seeing people who has bank charges to cope with. We are not helping were not great the first time I saw them, but each time I people to lead independent lives; they are often having see them they are in a worse state. They are in more to rely on other people to bail them out during the debt. They are worried; they are scared, because of process. what is happening to them. 75WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 76WH (Wales) (Wales) I saw one guy who was in a wheelchair most of the As my hon. Friends have made clear, we have all dealt time. He had had two strokes recently. Clearly, that with such cases. I have details of one here. The person person will not enter the realm of work very easily. Why applied for PIP last November. They were chasing and do we have to put through this process people who are chasing and finally got an assessment date for April, but suffering? Equally, another man, who was 64 years of they are still waiting to go through that process. Someone age, had a long history of heart illness. With the best else applied for PIP in June. They had the assessment. will in the world, how will he enter the realm of work? However, they got an answer from the DWP only in Who will employ him? [Interruption.] I know, but that March, and again that was after they had chased it. is how people view it; they feel that they are being Someone else applied in September 2013. Three medical forced out to work. assessments were cancelled by Capita. Some were cancelled This is a very difficult situation. I accept that. Colleagues without the person being told. They chased for an have mentioned the meeting with Capita. It has helpfully appointment and finally got one in January. Again, they sent us a note about that and some of the questions that were having to chase all the time. My favourite is this were asked. I notice that it is entitled “Health and one. Someone received a letter on 4 February this year wellbeing”, which is a somewhat strange situation, but informing them that a consultation would take place at there we are. Let me go through some of the points that their home sometime between 20 January and 25 January. it raises in the note. The first question is: They go back in time to have the assessment, back to “Why are claimants facing delays in the assessment process?” the future, or perhaps it involves the use of a Tardis or there is some other new thing that the Department The Minister will not be surprised to hear that it is can use. probably the Minister’s fault: “Referral volumes from the Department are higher than forecast.” Kevin Brennan: I do not think that this has been One of my hon. Friends mentioned this: mentioned so far in the debate, but Capita did not only “More health professionals are needed. The planning assumption meet us last week; it met many of us before the introduction was 141. We have now trained over 250 and will have nearly 450 of PIPs and it made certain commitments and promises, by July 2014.” based on the assumptions that it had been given by the Why was the original figure so wrong? It was not just DWP that none of these things would happen. We were slightly out. There is a massive difference between those given assurances that there would not be these kinds of figures. delays, that it had the right plans in place, that it knew This is one of my favourites: what it was doing and that there would be no repetition “Why was the reality of delivery different to the original of the mistakes made by other private contractors such assumptions?” as Atos. It failed miserably on that, and ultimate Capita states: responsibility does come to the Minister. I am sure he accepts that, and we respect his willingness to take it on “The complexity of producing the new and detailed reports means that there are a number of interrelated factors that add to board, so as the Minister responding to the debate the assessment timescales. Critically, the assumptions we originally today, he does not need to go through the history of the built our operating plan to have not proved to be accurate in live benefit. We know that. running.” I presume that in English that means that they have Mike Penning: I am not going to do that; give me a cocked it up. chance.

Nia Griffith: Would my hon. Friend, like me, like the Kevin Brennan: Good, but I am just giving the Minister Minister to explain exactly what specifications there that warning not to go through the history of the were in the service level agreement between the DWP benefit but, yes, to deal with his responsibility, who is and Capita for time scales after the PIP2 form and the responsible— medical assessments have been received for Capita to produce its assessment? What were those specifications? Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. Mark Tami. Mark Tami: My hon. Friend makes a good point, because something has gone very badly wrong. As I Mark Tami: My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff said, some of these things are not just slightly out; there West (Kevin Brennan) makes a powerful point. The is a massive problem. situation is a mess. Whatever promises are given, it just I will quote just one more paragraph from Capita’s seems to get worse, even to the point, as hon. Friends note: have said, that the Department is now having to send in “What are the current timescales from applying for PIP to a civil servants to try to stem the tide of chaos that is decision being made? overwhelming the whole system. The Department for Work and Pensions estimate that in total On the day on which the Secretary of State for it may take around 21-26 weeks from the time a claimant first Culture, Media and Sport has decided to go, I am not calls to initiate a claim to when they write to them with their decision. For most people this will include a face-to-face appointment calling for this Minister to go, but his Department which could take…12-16 weeks to arrange.” needs to look at this situation. It is affecting, and destroying, real people’s lives. It is causing great suffering I find that staggering. Then there is this very helpful out there. I ask the Minister just to look at the Government comment: Benches. There is not a single Tory or Liberal Democrat “It may take less time than this or longer”. MP from Wales here today. Why is that? It is because There we are; there is our answer. Now we know that they also know what a mess it is and they have run for things are going very well! the hills. 77WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 78WH (Wales) (Wales) 10.18 am such a situation, it is all hands to the pump. However, Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): It is a pleasure to serve are there additional costs, and who pays them? Given under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. I congratulate the that the contract is with a private organisation, what hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) on a penalties are being imposed on Capita? Has the Minister fine, eloquent and valuable speech. made any assessment of its willingness, or otherwise, to continue with the work? We saw what happened with Well, here we are again. Some hon. Members will Atos, which pulled out of a different sort of assessment recall our PIP debate with the now former Secretary of because of the difficulties that it faced. State for Culture, Media and Sport when she was the Minister responsible for disability issues. We discussed Furthermore, I understand that Capita is conducting the mobility needs of people in residential care, and more paper-based assessments. Initially, Capita planned eventually she performed a U-turn—eventually. to do 70% of assessments face to face, and then we I like this Minister and think that he is sincere and heard that the figure was 99%, but I understand now conscientious. We can trust that he will take full account that, to hurry matters along, some paper-based assessments of the debate and make timely changes. We are here are being made. That is where we came in when we because of delays in dealing with our constituents’ discussed PIP in the first place. One of the unsatisfactory cases, and we know about the concerns of the National aspects of disability living allowance was that it was too Audit Office and the Work and Pensions Committee. often a paper-based exercise, which produced variable Our particular concern is Wales, where there are higher outcomes, to say the least. PIP was sold on the basis levels of disability and long-term illness. I have had that it would involve a quality, individual, face-to-face cases, but I will not go into them, because we have heard assessment, that there would be reviews and that the sufficient detail about how bad the situation is. I will, system would be better all around, but I worry that we however, ask a number of questions. I have had a may be going back to where we started. response from Capita, although it is not completely I referred earlier to the need for data sets. It would be satisfactory. I worry about our constituents who do not useful if the Minister gave us a snapshot of claimant think of going to see their MP, because there must be numbers in Wales—perhaps not now, because he may many of those—proportionately more than actually not have the figures to hand—and the number of claims come through our doors. outstanding. Usefully, the Department produced a As has been mentioned, there are delays. People are document entitled “Personal Independence Payment: told that they will be paid from the date of their claim, Management Information” in February 2014, which but the problem is that people have current needs, and some hon. Members may have seen. The results for the jam tomorrow, even if it is delivered, is no use. Where UK are interesting and rather startling. I do not know there are delays, are claimants given timely information whether the figures are still current, because they were about how long their cases will take? Knowing how published in February and we are now in April. I see long the case will take would at least be some comfort. from one of the tables that in December 2013, there It is a grim question, but I have also been looking for were 229,700 new PIP claims, and 43,800 new claim figures on how many claimants in Wales have died decisions were made in respect of all new PIP claims. waiting for their claim. It would be useful to have the That is, as far as I can see, a rate of about 20%. data sets as soon as possible, although I know that we are in the early stages, and I have had access to some of the management information. Too often, we have data Mike Penning: Perhaps I can help the Chamber. We sets for the UK in general, but we are concerned with estimate that 233,000 claims have been made, of which Wales and it would be useful to have those data sets 50% have now been decided. Of the terminally ill, 99% broken down as far as our country is concerned. have been concluded, which is still not high enough. Another issue for Wales is rurality, which makes PIP particularly important for people’s mobility needs. There Hywel Williams: I am glad to hear that that is the is a practical question of the travel time for people who rate. Of course, with people who are terminally ill, we are assessed in centres, or the extra travel time taken by want to see a rate of 100%. I also had a look at the Capita staff who have to go to remote locations in rural figures from the PIP reassessment and impact report areas. Atos has chosen a slightly different emphasis from December 2012, which gives a forecast for March from Capita, by doing more assessments in centres 2014 of 87,000 reassessments, with 180,000 reassessments rather than home visits. Will the Department eventually in the March 2012 strategy. Perhaps the Minister can conduct a compare and contrast exercise on Atos’s and give us further information. Capita’s handling of the matter? A particular issue in Wales is assessment through the I had an interesting discussion with Dr Duckworth, medium of Welsh. I put a question to the Department the managing director for PIP at Capita, on the radio some time ago, and was told that the assessments would this morning. He reported, as we have heard, that follow the Department’s Welsh language scheme. Capita now think that face-to-face interviews take two hours rather than one. Will the Minister tell us, perhaps in writing, how the planning process worked and how Susan Elan Jones: The hon. Gentleman makes an such an alarming underestimate was reached? Any planning important point. Does he agree that one of the ways in process must be somewhat speculative, but if one hour which Government and officialdom get it a bit wrong was planned for and the outturn is two hours, it seems on the Welsh language is by assuming that the only to me to be a gross underestimate. people who need any sort of Welsh language provision I understand that Capita is recruiting more staff, and are those who complete the forms in Welsh? As many of I heard the other day that staff from the Department us know, there are people who are vastly more comfortable for Work and Pensions are helping out. That is good; in speaking Welsh but not necessarily writing it. 79WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 80WH (Wales) (Wales) Hywel Williams: The hon. Lady makes a telling point. people going through the most dreadful experiences of Many people would much prefer to speak in Welsh but their lives, and basically hitting their head against a write in English, even in my own constituency, where rock. It was very sad. some 80% of people speak Welsh. We have to draw the There are many reports of hold-ups with PIP, but Minister’s attention to the fact that it is not only those I have heard of and experienced cases in which people who fill in the forms in Welsh who want the service. have been waiting for responses for several months. I Departments in general, and perhaps the DWP in particular, have come across one case of someone waiting for more assume a certain passivity in respect of the language than a year for a decision on payments. Earlier, the issue. If people ask—if they bang the table—they might Minister mentioned other benefits, but in many cases, get it, but as with so many equality issues, Departments the people we are discussing have had to give up really should take a more proactive stance. Does the Department well-paid jobs. They have been managing to keep their keep a record of the number of claims made through heads above water, but suddenly, because decisions are the medium of Welsh on paper? I imagine that that taking so long, they are tumbling into debt and need. I number is vanishingly small, but I do not think that it have been told about people going through chemotherapy corresponds to the number of people who would like to who are dependent on the local food bank. Can we talk in Welsh. Even in my constituency, I am sure that imagine coping under such circumstances? It is very sad very few send in the forms in Welsh, but the majority indeed. want to speak in Welsh. The staff at Maggie’s are doing excellent work, as are It is incumbent on us to think of the Capita staff who my staff and those of the other MPs here, under really are struggling to deal with all those matters, and the difficult circumstances. We are becoming more and staff of the Department who are out there working with more frustrated by the system. Capita must surely have them. The Public and Commercial Services Union, internal systems to monitor and evaluate the length of which represents some of those people, has concerns. I time that assessments are taking—surely there must be draw that to the Minister’s attention, because we must internal safeguards. We are coming across staff who, support the staff, who do a difficult job under very although they are working under difficult circumstances, trying circumstances. As a final flourish—I do not really do not seem to care that they are not meeting know whether the Minister will give me an answer—is deadlines. They are not rushing things, and that is sad. he confident that the system is now fit for purpose? People were keen to tell me on Friday that—we all know this as constituency MPs—we are not talking about people trying to swing the lead. This is not a case 10.30 am of people trying to buck the system and get money to Mrs Siân C. James (Swansea East) (Lab): I will be which they are not entitled; these are people in genuine brief. We have heard much today about the replacement need who have enough stresses and strains without of the disability living allowance with the personal additional problems with PIP.Many organisations, such independence payment. I am not going to cite any as Hardest Hit, We Are Spartacus and the Disability personal examples from Swansea East, but I will be Benefits Consortium, are expressing serious concerns talking on behalf of a Swansea-wide organisation, the about the Government’s introduction of PIP. We are Maggie’s centre, which serves the south and south-west even hearing noises of disquiet from health professions Wales area, providing very important cancer support about the Government’s having failed to reform the services for anyone suffering with cancer. We have heard work capability assessment. As I have said, there is about the various problems and dissatisfaction, and little, if any, evidence of performance monitoring in how we all feel about the introduction of PIP and how organisations such as Atos and Capita. They are responsible Capita is proceeding. If I may say so to the Minister, for the assessments; how are we monitoring and assessing through the Chair, it is not going very well. how they are achieving things? Since January, I have written to Capita on 20 occasions. I have many stories and examples that I could pass on Last Friday was a red letter day, because I received my to the Minister, just like those mentioned by many of first answer. We got quite excited in the office that we my colleagues. I am confident that the fundamental had received a letter and rang the constituent concerned problem with PIP is that it was introduced to save to inform her, only to find that she had received a money. How mean. I understand that these are difficult telephone call from Capita with information that was times for the country and that finances are challenging diametrically opposed to everything we had been told in for us all, but we are talking about the least able people. the letter. Capita totally contradicted itself. It was a case Many of them tell me, “If I could work, Mrs James, I of the right hand definitely not knowing what the left would be there.” hand was doing. There are a lot of examples like that, The staff at Maggie’s asked me to ask the Minister and we have heard about how the lack of a dedicated one particular question: why does Capita not accept telephone line adds to people’s problems. implied consent from a third party? They are ringing up I want to turn to the stress and strain placed on and working on behalf of cancer sufferers, but they are people who are very unwell. It was sad that, when a hitting a brick wall. We do not mind as MPs—PIP is the group of local MPs were invited to Maggie’s centre last biggest issue in my postbag and I have an increasing Friday to speak to its disability benefits adviser, who responsibility and work commitment to it—but accepting has huge experience working across the sector, I saw implied consent from a third party would save time for despair. In the briefing and facts and figures we were people who are having tremendous difficulties. given, we saw despair. It was not the frustration that I I am sure that the Minister and others have heard our feel as an MP, which we have heard expressed in this dissatisfaction. PIP assessments must be reformed urgently, debate and is shared by my office staff; it was despair. It because people are suffering unnecessarily on top of all was a person who is working really hard on behalf of their other problems. 81WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 82WH (Wales) (Wales) 10.37 am As the National Audit Office pointed out in its report, Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): It is a once backlogs start to build up in the system, it is pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Owen, difficult to recover. and it has been a pleasure to listen to the debate. I I understand, from a written answer from the Minister particularly congratulate my hon. Friend the Member to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) on securing a (Yasmin Qureshi) just yesterday, that the Minister has debate on a subject that is clearly of concern to many of set an expectation—not a requirement—that assessments her Welsh colleagues. Indeed, I am sure that those would be carried out within 30 days. Frankly, that is concerns would be replicated among colleagues throughout already much longer than what we were used to with the the UK. I am sure that the Minister will accept that disability living allowance. The total end-to-end expectation what we have heard today is not just a matter of isolated for DLA was 37 days. We understand that, for PIP, we cases that can be sorted out by the often very helpful have reached 74 days, or 107 days if we exclude the interventions he makes when individual MPs take up terminally ill cases, which have been sped up. Typically issues with him and his Department; we are looking at a that is a long period for people to go without financial process of systemic failure and flaws. support. The disability living allowance and the new personal As colleagues have pointed out, the delays are attributable independence payment are important benefits for the to problems with the forms—people not understanding people who claim and need them, both in and out of them and having trouble returning them quickly—and work. Whether someone is working or not, if they are with security questions that people cannot get through. hit with a sudden, potentially catastrophic event—perhaps Another problem is that every assessment is subject to a stroke or a serious accident—they will start to face audit, which may be desirable to improve quality, but additional, often substantial, costs whatever their income builds in further delays. There are bottlenecks in getting situation. In some cases, their income will reduce or dry assessments through to decision makers because assessors up. There will also be significant knock-on effects on are getting cases back and cannot cope with the work that person’s family, who may also suffer a loss of load. income if they have to take time off to care for them. I understand from the most recent figures I have The importance of the personal independence payment seen—from the end of October—that Capita is managing in financially supporting the family in the round cannot to carry out 67% of assessments within the time frame. therefore be exaggerated. What is the position today? It is also worth noting that disabled people are particularly The discussion about home visits and people having vulnerable to poverty. They face twice the risk that to travel to assessment centres was interesting. One non-disabled people face, and research by Scope has advantage of having two contractors—Atos in some shown that around half go into debt, using credit cards, parts of the country and Capita elsewhere, including overdrafts and so on simply to pay for essentials. Wales—is that we have been able to compare and contrast The personal independence payment is also an important their different approaches. benefit for those who suffer less catastrophically, as it First, unlike Atos, Capita employs its own health care enables them to continue to participate in, and often to professionals; it does not subcontract to others to carry take on and continue in, paid work. If people are unable out the assessments. Also, as I understand it, Capita is to sustain the flow of personal independence payments, committed to a model predominantly built around assessing particularly those transferring from disability living people in their own home. Home visits amount to allowance who previously qualified for mobility payments around 60% of the assessments carried out by Capita. and find that those payments are not continued, they Yet we heard today from my hon. Friend the Member might lose their Motability vehicle and in many cases for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) that his constituent fall out of work. has been required to make journeys of more than two In all cases, it is important that we get the assessment and a half hours in each direction to attend an assessment right, and that where people are entitled to the personal centre. Will the Minister say a little more about exactly independence payment we get the money flowing fast. how the balance between having to travel to a centre Yet what we have heard today is a catalogue of delays. and being able to have a home visit is working out in While that is terrible for individuals and families, I want practice? to ask the Minister first about the effect of such delays We heard many examples this morning of problems on the Government’s finances. with dealing with Capita as an organisation, whether As colleagues have pointed out, the underlying policy someone is an individual, a member of the individual’s intent of PIP was to make substantial savings in the family or, for that matter, the individual’s Member of benefits bill. Yet already the savings have been revised Parliament, trying to sort out a particular case. There downwards for the current year from £750 million to have been complaints about difficulties in booking £640 million. While I understand that the Government appointments; appointments being cancelled at short expect to get those savings back on track in due course, notice; and problems booking another appointment. what will happen if they do not, or if the savings are There has been confusion when people have tried to further delayed? Will disabled people have to pay the find out the status of their appointment or assessment. price of the newly introduced annually managed expenditure People have been told to ask the Department for Work cap? and Pensions, only for the Department to refer them There are also significant concerns about delivery, as back to Capita. As a result there is uncertainty for we have heard this morning. Those concerns began to claimants about where their claims stand. arise soon after the introduction of the benefit in late As was also mentioned this morning, there is concern spring 2013—even as soon as early summer. My colleagues that there are simply not enough experienced and qualified and I were picking up reports of delays and problems. health care professionals in the market to carry out the 83WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 84WH (Wales) (Wales) assessments. What is the Minister doing to stimulate the I am pleased about the progress on terminal cases, profession and to encourage more people to enter it? and actually I have to offer my congratulations to the What discussions has he had with Capita about how it Minister for the speed with which he picked up that intends to ensure that it has an adequate staff base to concern. I would like to ask the Minister about mental carry out the assessments? Will he explain why, as my health, which was mentioned by a number of colleagues, hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) and what he is doing to improve the expertise of assessors. pointed out, Capita was not required to provide evidence I want to repeat the question asked by, I think, my hon. that it had that staff team in place before the contract Friend the Member for Swansea East (Mrs James) commenced? about whether Capita will have the opportunity to bid We have also heard that the length of time to carry for the work capability assessment. Many in the Chamber out an individual assessment is much longer than was would be rather horrified if it were. I also want to repeat envisaged. While the working assumption was that the question asked by the hon. Member for Arfon about assessments would typically take one hour, two to two when we can expect to see proper audited statistics. The and a half hours is becoming the norm. management information is useful, but it gives us only part of the story. Will the Minister also answer the When PIP was first introduced by the Government question raised by my hon. Friend the Member for and was being discussed during the passage of what Clwyd South about the lack of an MP hotline and the became the Welfare Reform Act 2012, we were told that confusion about where complaints should be directed? there would be no time limit on how long the assessments would last; if it took a long time to extract the information I have a few final questions for the Minister. We needed in a face-to-face interview with a claimant, all heard about the poor data matching between information that time would be given. Capita seems to have honoured already held on the benefits system about claimants and that and said, “We will take as long as it takes to get the what was being uncovered when they went for a PIP information we need.” The difficulty is that that simply assessment. Will the Minister say which he thinks is is not a financially or operationally sustainable model. more reliable, and to what extent DLA information can It is building in delay and cost, and it would be interesting be used as a possible means of clearing the backlog that to hear how the Minister intends to resolve that policy we face? We would have expected many more cases conundrum, as it seems to be working with the best of where there is a dispute to be reaching the stage of intentions to very adverse effect. appeals in tribunal, but the courts are sitting around with nothing to do. Who is bearing the cost in the court We heard that plans were agreed in January 2014 for service of that lack of activity? Finally, can the Minister civil servants to be drafted in to help clear the backlog give us a little more information on his intentions for that has arisen in Capita, which has been welcomed the independent review of PIP that has been promised by colleagues this morning. Will the Minister say a bit for later this year? more about what those civil servants are doing? Presumably, they are not health care professionals carrying out the assessments themselves. Will he also tell us where they 10.49 am have come from? Will there now be a scarcity of civil servants in another part of the DWP’s operation? Who The Minister of State, Department for Work and is bearing any additional cost of deploying the civil Pensions (Mike Penning): Thank you very much indeed servants? for calling me to speak, Mr Owen. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship in this very important Can we also have clarity about the balance between debate. paper-based and face-to-face assessments? I understand that Wales is now piloting increased used of paper-based Let me say at the outset that it is very important that assessments. Will the Minister say in what circumstances this type of debate takes place, not least because we can that is taking place? What percentage of assessments get better information on the record. I know that some does he now expect to be paper-based or face-to-face? hon. Members have not raised individual constituency What is the situation now? cases during this debate; some have, but some have not. If they have not done so, please would they give us that As the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) information? We will be in contact with Members during pointed out, the Secretary of State himself seems a little the course of today and tomorrow, so that we can pick confused about the Government’s intentions here, even up on those cases. as recently as last Sunday. On the “Marr” programme, he said: I will start today by touching on the point that was “What we are introducing here is regular checks, face-to-face...This raised in the debate about colleagues coming to me and is much fairer for everybody, those face-to-face checks...Because getting responses. I think that it was raised by the hon. of the face-to-face checks it’s much more likely that you will get a Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) and I more accurate reading.” thank her for her kind comments about how we have I must tell the Secretary of State that people are not responded to colleagues, not only in Westminster Hall cars with speedometers; they are human beings with a today but at other times. Actually, it is very useful for set of conditions. The issue is not about accurate readings, me as the Minister to see what goes through, because if but about understanding a condition in the round. individual MPs write to me then I—as Members probably None the less, there appears to be a discrepancy between know—write them an individual reply, and while I the Secretary of State’s strong assertion on Sunday that cannot deal with every individual case, it does give me a face-to-face assessments were the direction of the travel, better feel for what is going on. and my understanding that a considerable emphasis is With that in mind, I will go back from Westminster now being given to piloting paper-based assessments Hall today and act; my officials have heard what hon. in Wales. Members have said and they will now hear what I am 85WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 86WH (Wales) (Wales) [Mike Penning] alluded to by the hon. Member for Cardiff West. Under that system, less than 6% of claimants had face-to-face about to say. The hotline will happen. It is not acceptable interviews; most people were given a paper-based assessment that there is not a hotline in place. We will get on and for life. In the case of some people, that was absolutely do that. right and proper, but for an awful lot of people it was I will touch, quite rightly, on what was probably the not. For instance, it was particularly bad for people most sensitive issue raised in the debate, which is that of with mental health issues, because they could not get the cases concerning the terminally ill. I thank the the upper rate on the old DLA, really. With PIP, they shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Stretford and will be able to. Urmston (Kate Green), for her kind comments about The hon. Member for Newport East asked me about the actions that I have taken on such cases in the short the roll-out of this system. It has been rolled out in time that I have been the Minister. I was appalled—I Wales; it is out, in its entirety, for reconsiderations as have said that before publicly as well as privately—at well as for new claims. So, the one area that I can see the the length of time that it was taking for cases concerning new system in its entirety is Wales. We will break down the terminally ill to be assessed and for payments to be the data and ensure that it is available to Welsh MPs, so made. I think that when I arrived in this post, the period that we can provide feedback. It is too early to give the was around 28 days. Under the previous disability living full basis of the data, and the Audit Commission has allowance system, which was not strictly comparable, also said that. the period would have been about 10 days. I want it to come down; I have anecdotal evidence that it is around three to eight days now. As I said to the Work and Mark Tami: Will the Minister give way? Pensions Committee, an average of five days is perhaps where we need to be. We need to ensure that these Mike Penning: I will just finish this point on the Audit people who so desperately need help get it quickly. Commission, because the Audit Commission was quoted I have worked particularly closely with Macmillan several times. As I was saying, the commission also said Cancer Support to develop some new methodologies. that it was too early to see whether the new system For instance, it is very difficult for someone visiting a would be value for money, because the information is terminally ill person to be on the phone to someone else not here yet. I just wanted to balance that argument a while they are talking to the person they are looking bit. after; that is particularly difficult with Macmillan cases. So we are going to set up a pilot whereby we give Mark Tami: Before the Minister moves off the subject Macmillan the forms there and then, so that they have of mental health, one of the other important issues is them on file and we can get them back and through the that, depending on what is wrong with them, people system more quickly. Macmillan said that it did not like have good days and bad days. It is important to get an the call system; it kept their nurses and other health all-round picture of their issues, rather than just an professionals waiting for too long. So we are going to on-the-spot assessment—“Yes, they’re OK. Fine.” work with Macmillan and pilot that new scheme. And we will move from that scheme to secure portable document format, or PDF. That is what most of our Mike Penning: I completely taken on board what the GPs use when they deal with insurance companies or hon. Gentleman says. Indeed, what is just as important anybody else. Hopefully we will continue to review is that people with mental disabilities often have other matters and we can continue to reduce the time that it disabilities as well and they need to be treated as an takes to deal with these cases. individual case, with all their disabilities considered in In an intervention, the hon. Member for Cardiff their entirety. West (Kevin Brennan) said that he hoped I would not We are working very closely with Capita. The Capita just read out the speech that had been prepared for me. model is different from the Atos model. As was alluded He knows me better than that; I have never read a to by the shadow Minister, Capita is doing 60% of its speech in this House that has been prepared for me. I work within the home and 40% in other assessments. It will continue to respond to Members as best I can and, is completely unacceptable if someone is being asked to of course, if I am unable to answer the questions in the travel the distances that we have heard about today. The time that I am allowed, we will write to individual maximum time someone should travel is 90 minutes. In colleagues and ensure that they have the information rural communities, which were referred to in the debate, they need for their constituents. even that length of time is really difficult, because Do I, as the Minister of State responsible for this travelling for 90 minutes in a big capital city is completely portfolio, take responsibility for it? Yes, I do. That is the different from travelling for the same time in a rural way that Ministers should act. There was a former community. I have asked my officials to begin a review Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in Westminster today about the access issues that people are having. Hall earlier, the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain). They will review not only the time that it takes for He is not in Westminster Hall at the moment, but I went people to go to an assessment centre but the time it to him when I was a Back-Bench MP and said to him, takes for Capita to come to a person’s home, because “You are the Secretary of State. You’ve got to take travelling time is not considered as part of the time for responsibility.” That is exactly what he did. the assessment. I will come on to that in a moment. Whether I make the right decision or the wrong decision will be for others to decide. However, one of Susan Elan Jones: Can the Minister tell us how bad the reasons that I wanted this portfolio was to make a Capita has to get before, in his estimation, any fine difference. The old DLA system was broken; that was would be imposed upon it by the Government? 87WH Personal Independence Payments 9 APRIL 2014 Personal Independence Payments 88WH (Wales) (Wales) Mike Penning: If the hon. Lady will be patient, I have confidence to make the decisions on the paper-based another four minutes to speak and I will certainly assessments. Very often, although staff feel they have address that issue. the information in front of them, they are not sure With the contracts that were issued, there is not a about making a decision because they fear they will be change to a paper-based system. From day one, the hit on quality—“The audit will come down and say we perception was that the split should be 75:25 between should have done this”—so they have pushed the case face-to-face interviews and paper-based assessments. I through to a face-to-face interview. That is actually have said that to the Work and Pensions Committee increasing the delays. We want to give people confidence; before. With the DLA, only 6% of claimants were that is why our officials are there. interviewed face to face and nationally we are around The question was asked, “Where do these officials about 97% for face-to-face interviews. So there is not a come from?” Many of them are actually officials waiting movement away from face-to-face interviews; actually, for these decisions to come back, so I have a capacity of where we are trying to get to is where we were supposed people sitting there and waiting for decisions to come to be in the first place, which is around 75% of interviews back. That is why we are putting people at the right being conducted face to face and 25% of claimants grade into the offices of Capita to ensure that we can being dealt with by paper-based assessments. get better movement and that we get the split down to a The contract with Capita allows for penalties and we manageable one; I hope it will be a 75:25 split. are imposing financial penalties on it where it is not meeting its targets. That process is taking place now and We will probably announce the review later on today, we will continue with it. However, the best thing to do is if not tomorrow, outlining who will do the review and for us to work with Capita to get accurate assessments. howwemoveonfromit. The point about accuracy is the one that I will touch The truth of the matter is that there will be people on for the remaining few minutes. One type of issue that who benefit from PIP and there will be people who do we have is quality issues. We have been really tough, and not benefit from it. However, what they need is decisions previous Ministers were very tough, on both Capita and and we need to communicate with them much better. Atos about PIP regarding quality. Because of that, We are introducing a text system so that people will be those companies have been very concerned—I have better informed as to where they are within the queue used the word “frightened” before, but they are certainly system. That is slightly more complicated in certain concerned—about ensuring they get things right, which parts of the country than others. We can text— is one of the reasons why we have nowhere near the number of appeals that we may have expected or that were made under previous benefit systems. Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. I am very grateful One reason for that is that we have put our staff into to the Minister, and to Members, for what was a full the offices of companies, particularly those of Capita, debate. The Minister has indicated that he will write to and we will probably do that elsewhere. It gives staff the Members. 89WH 9 APRIL 2014 Shared Services Connected Ltd 90WH

Shared Services Connected Ltd As well as the closure in Sheffield, by October 2014, the DWP office in Cardiff will close, with a loss of 11 am 105 staff, and the Environment Agency office in Leeds will close, with a loss of 68 staff. Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): It is a pleasure to open this debate with you in the Chair, Mr Owen. Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): Can my hon. I sought this debate on behalf of 239 Department for Friend understand the anxiety felt by staff at the Newport Work and Pensions staff at the Kings Court offices in MOJ shared services centre—the situation is similar to the heart of my constituency, although the issue affects the one in Sheffield that he is explaining—who understood civil service staff more broadly. that that was to be a stand-alone site, although it is now being considered for outsourcing to Arvato or Steria? I begin by citing the Prime Minister. Back in January, speaking at the World Economic Forum at Davos, he Paul Blomfield: I can indeed, and I will come to that said that Britain had the potential to become the “reshore issue. Closer to Newport than Sheffield, I met some nation”. Talking about UK jobs lost abroad, through staff from Cardiff last week. Like the staff in Sheffield, offshoring, he said, these are loyal civil servants who have contributed years “there is now an opportunity for the reverse…an opportunity for of public service and, frankly, they feel betrayed by the some of those jobs to come back.” decision and by the way that the decisions are being Should not the Government be taking a lead on this, executed. setting the example through its own employment policies? As well as job losses in Sheffield and Cardiff, Last week I received a letter from the Minister for the 122 staff will go in SSCL offices in Blackpool, Newcastle, Cabinet Office and Paymaster General all but confirming Peterborough and York. The DEFRA site in Alnwick that the work lost in my constituency was to be offshored has a temporary reprieve, but only until June 2015. The to India, as I understand it. Government have not conducted economic impact Let me explain the background. Shared services are assessments of the closure of these offices, although the those parts of individual civil service departments, arm’s loss of jobs will have a significant impact on local length bodies and agencies that provide corporate services communities and economies. Indeed, in June 2013, Lynn for IT, human resources management, pay and payroll, Phillips, head of service improvement for DEFRA, procurement and finance to deliver their business outputs. wrote to the then Minister, the hon. Member for Somerton In December 2012, the Cabinet Office set out its next and Frome (Mr Heath), highlighting the plan’s generation shared services strategic plan to create five “incompatibility with UK growth objectives” shared service centres. Two independent shared services because of the centres, ISSC1 and ISSC2, would be formed for a “loss of jobs in regional locations”. number of departments and arm’s length bodies. The Will the Minister assure us and say that the Government three remaining were to be stand-alone centres, based will conduct an economic impact assessment and, if so, on the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Defence and when that is likely to happen? Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): Specifically, The first of these independent shared service centres, on the DEFRA issue, does not my hon. Friend think ISSC1, based on the Department for Transport in Swansea, that the fact that the Secretary of State raised concerns was outsourced to German multinational Arvato in and asked for a standstill period shows how serious this June 2013. The Public and Commercial Services Union, offshoring is and that it will lead to dire consequences? representing the majority of staff, engaged positively in the transfer process to secure the best possible outcome. Paul Blomfield: My hon. Friend is right. I am coming The consultation led to agreements, including one on to that point. Clearly, this issue has led to concerns no compulsory redundancy for at least a year and an being raised, even at Cabinet level. Yet, extraordinarily, agreement that staff would retain their civil service the offshoring is being rushed through. status. The speed at which SSCL intends to cut the 500 jobs ISSC2, which affects Sheffield, was to consist initially is unprecedented. It aims to have all redundancies dealt of the shared services functions of the Department for with by the end of October. This does not allow enough Work and Pensions, the Department for Environment, time for staff to be re-employed or reinstated back into Food and Rural Affairs and the Environment Agency. the civil service and means that compulsory redundancies This was turned into a joint venture company called are likely. Indeed, staff in Sheffield and in Cardiff, Shared Services Connected Ltd, in which the Government whom I met last week, told me that the redeployment retained 25% of the shares, with the French multinational opportunities have been limited, because there is no Steria’s UK subsidiary owning and controlling 75%. joined-up approach across Government. I find it The creation of SSCL involved civil service shared extraordinary that most other Departments are not services sites in York, Alnwick, Cardiff, Blackpool and offering vacancies to those loyal civil servants who are Newcastle, as well as the one in my constituency in losing their jobs. Do the Government think that this is Sheffield. SSCL became live in November 2013 and the right way to treat any staff, particularly those who 1,000 civil servants were privatised and TUPE-ed over. have given decades of public service? It sets a bad The PCS secured agreements with the Government standard for employers throughout the country. I should on this process, including a six-month no compulsory like the Minister to reassure us on this issue. Will redundancy agreement and a one-year guarantee of no the Government commit to providing redeployment site closures. However, on 4 March 2014, SSCL announced opportunities across all Departments? That would provide 500 job cuts, office closures and the offshoring of work, a lifeline for at least some staff. The limited opportunities quite cynically timed to the minute the one-year guarantee that have been made available to date are inaccessible to against site closures ran out. many of those in Sheffield, and those at other sites, too. 91WH Shared Services Connected Ltd9 APRIL 2014 Shared Services Connected Ltd 92WH

SSCL is not acting in accordance with the special criminal records and details of the police, the judiciary commitments given to staff before transfer, which stated and security service personnel, could also be privatised that transformation would take place over two years and offshored. Why has the strategic plan been changed? and that everything would be done to avoid compulsory Finally, taking on board the point made by my hon. redundancies. The Government have a 25% stake in Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden), SSCL. At the very least, should they not use that I return to my opening point. What makes the cuts so position to challenge the speed of job cuts, to allow a much harder for the staff to swallow is that so much of thorough, ongoing programme of redeployment of staff? the work for the three sites under threat of closure has I should like the Minister to respond to that question. been earmarked for offshoring. Indeed, the PCS told There is also the issue of the data being handled. me that SSCL has explicitly said that a determining These sites handle the personal data of tens of thousands factor in deciding which sites are to close is the potential of civil servants. They also deal with commercially for the work to be offshored. Offshoring is the driver for sensitive information relating to Government contracts decisions on closure and job losses. and tendering. Despite the sensitivity of the data, when As my hon. Friend said, how does that fit in with the the Cabinet Office advertised for bidders to become Prime Minister’s assertion at the World Economic Forum majority partners in SSCL in April 2013, the selected that he wants the UK to become “the reshoring nation”? bidders all had a significant element of offshoring functions At Davos, he underlined that ambition by announcing as part of their bid. the establishment of a new body, Reshore UK, which Concerns about offshoring are not restricted to will sit within the Department for Business, Innovation Opposition Members or their staff; they have, as my hon. and Skills. The Prime Minister clearly places great Friend the Member for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) weight on that body in developing his reshoring strategy. pointed out, been expressed at Cabinet level. The Secretary Will the Minister commit to arranging for Reshore UK of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to meet with SSCL and the Cabinet Office with the aim wrote to the Minister for the Cabinet Office last July, of considering how the jobs they plan to offshore can expressing concerns about DEFRA joining ISSC2 and stay in the UK? If not, does he accept that the Prime a “possible staff exodus”. The Secretary of State asked Minister’s statement at Davos will be seen as nothing specifically for a standstill period on “estates and off- more than empty words? shoring” and expressed concerns about data security. The head of service improvement for DEFRA wrote in 11.14 am her letter to the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd): It is a that the DEFRA executive committee considered great pleasure, Mr Owen, to serve under your chairmanship, “significant (or any) element of off-shoring” I think for the first time. I congratulate the hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) on securing the to be unacceptable and that there was a debate and on the sincerity with which he has presented “significantly increased risk to service continuity from loss of his arguments on behalf of concerned constituents. I current expertise” totally understand where that comes from; if I were in on transfer. She also raised concerns about his shoes, I would probably utter similar sentiments. “employee and detailed financial data transmitted, stored and The hon. Gentleman endeared himself to me by processed outside the UK”. opening with a quote from the Prime Minister. Of Why are the Government sanctioning the offshoring of course, the Prime Minister was right in saying that jobs sensitive personal data and commercially sensitive are coming back. I do not have the statistics for Sheffield, information, on which objections have been raised at Newport or other constituencies represented on the the highest level of the civil service and by members of Opposition Benches, but it is undeniable that since the the Cabinet? 2010 election, more than 1 million private sector jobs have been created in this country. We have record numbers of people in work. Jessica Morden: Does my hon. Friend agree that it is breathtaking hypocrisy for the Prime Minister to have Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Will the Minister been talking just weeks ago about Britain becoming the give way? reshoring nation while the Cabinet Office pursues contracts that are explicitly relaxed about offshoring jobs, such as Mr Hurd: I will not, because the hon. Gentleman was those at the shared services centre in Newport? not here for the start of the debate. There are a record number of women in work and this country is creating jobs again. Paul Blomfield: My hon. Friend is absolutely right and again anticipates a point I will make. Before I do, Paul Flynn: Some 650 jobs have been lost in Newport. I make one point about the remaining three shared service centres. Originally, they were to stand alone, but Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. I understand that the strategic plan has been fundamentally revised. Peter Swann, who heads the Crown oversight Mr Hurd: With respect to the hon. Gentleman, I will function of the shared services agenda, has confirmed not give way, because he was not here at the start of the that the Ministry of Justice is considering transferring debate. its shared services to one of the outsourced ISSCs instead. Paul Flynn: Deliberate ignorance! I understand the concerns of the staff involved. If the Mr Hurd: It is not deliberate ignorance at all. MOJ was to join one of the already outsourced ISSC contracts, the sensitive data the staff handle, including Paul Flynn rose— 93WH Shared Services Connected Ltd9 APRIL 2014 Shared Services Connected Ltd 94WH

Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. The Minister is the Minister whether he gives way to any Member in the not giving way. Chamber. The Minister indicated that he would not give way to the hon. Gentleman, but he has since done Mr Hurd: I was putting the debate into a wider so to other Members. context, which I hope the hon. Member for Sheffield Central would welcome, of vibrant job generation in Mr Hurd: I am trying to stress to the hon. Member this country. It does not just matter for statistics; it for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) that the bigger context offers hope and security for people across the country. is job creation throughout the country, which I hope she When the Prime Minister talks about jobs coming back, welcomes and is evidenced in her constituency as well. he means it. The issue is about restoring the means by She makes a valid point about offshoring, to which I which this country can secure its long-term future and will return, because it was at the core of the speech of competitiveness. The fact that that was entirely absent the hon. Member for Sheffield Central. from the debate is regrettable. My point was that we are in the place where we are in terms of vibrant job creation around the country partly Paul Blomfield: On that specific point, will the Minister because of the confidence in the business community note the regional imbalance in the creation of private that there is a plan for economic recovery and that, at sector jobs? He might have seen the report two or three the heart of the plan, is a determination to get on top of weeks ago from the Centre for Cities, which pointed out the public finances. Simply put, that will be the reality that so many of the jobs being created are in London for whoever is in power after the next general election, and the south-east, sucked away from the rest of the which is acknowledged by the people at the top of the country. I think it said that there have been 217,000 new Labour party. The Government therefore have to get private sector jobs in London, with a net decline in serious about where they find savings and efficiencies. private sector jobs of 7,500 in my city of Sheffield. The For a long time now, including under the previous Government have a particular responsibility to address Government, as highlighted in 2004 by the Gershon that regional imbalance and not take more jobs away. review, there has been consistent advocacy for the need and opportunity to consolidate back-office functions Mr Hurd: That is a fair point, which the Chancellor throughout government. The belief is that we can deliver has addressed directly by saying, “Yes, there is some between £400 million and £600 million per annum in very good news on job creation, but we still face a savings for the taxpayer in such a process, while freeing stubborn underlying challenge on the imbalance in the the civil service to concentrate on its core role of delivering economy.” That is a fact, reality and challenge that exceptional public services. the Government are addressing. Significant public gain is to be had through the It would nice if we heard some voices from the pursuit of efficiency, which the previous Administration Opposition Benches that recognised that these problems did not pursue rigorously, despite the words. If any have been entrenched for a long time and were substantially evidence were needed, the Efficiency and Reform Group not addressed by the previous Administration. I am in the Cabinet Office last year was able to realise £10 billion trying to make the point that the broader context is one in savings to the taxpayer through our process. That is where the country is beginning to generate jobs again £10 billion that does not have to come in cuts to after some difficult years. Part of the reason why we front-line services. It tells us a lot about the attitude of have been able to create jobs is that at the core of the the previous Government to efficiency in the public long-term economic plan is a plan to pay down the finances. deficit. It would be nice to have a reality check on the Opposition Benches: that is the environment in which this Government have to work and in which the Paul Blomfield: Does the Minister acknowledge that next Government will have to work, whatever their that is stretching the definition of efficiency a little? We political colour. are simply talking about taking jobs done in proper working conditions by loyal civil servants in the UK Mrs Glindon: Will the Minister not acknowledge that and putting them into a cheap labour market in India. sustaining jobs is as important as creating jobs in a That is not efficiency; that is exploiting the labour force. successful economy? Offshoring these jobs is not about sustaining work in this country. If there is to be job Mr Hurd: I would like to see some recognition that it creation, offshoring jobs negates some of that. is not in the interests of the British taxpayer for there to be duplication or inefficiency in how services are delivered. Mr Hurd: I will come to the specific point about For some time, and under the previous Administration, offshoring, because it was at the core of the speech there has been widespread acceptance of the opportunity made by the hon. Member for Sheffield Central. to share services such as HR, procurement, finance and payroll functions, and of the need to consolidate where Paul Flynn: On a point of order, Mr Owen. Is it in those services are shared, given the number of centres order for a Minister to cast a slur over a Member by that were in place. Obviously, in that process there is an claiming that he was not present at the beginning of a ability to deliver efficiency, cost-effectiveness and, I debate without giving that Member an opportunity to hope, a better service. explain that he was at a Select Committee meeting and There is no dispute about the opportunity—as I said, that, had he left, it would not have been quorate? the debate has been going on for a long time—but the question is whether anyone is prepared to do something Albert Owen (in the Chair): The hon. Gentleman has about it, and we are. We are delighted that the National been in Parliament an awfully long time and he knows Audit Office recognises our progress and, in a report of that that is not a point of order for the Chair. It is up to 31 March, considers that the programme is 95WH Shared Services Connected Ltd9 APRIL 2014 Shared Services Connected Ltd 96WH

“on track with the first shared service centre being outsourced by associated consultation process. At the same time, SSCL its target date of March 2013 and the second having a joint launched a voluntary exit programme for affected venture partner in place before its target date of March 2014.” employees. The window for expressions of interest closed It also found on 24 March. “no major issues with the services offered by” As part of the negotiations associated with the ISSC2 either of the two independent shared service centres. deal, the Cabinet Office and Steria agreed a re-employment As the hon. Member for Sheffield Central said, the protocol with the Department for Work and Pensions, second of the two centres was created in November the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, 2013, when the Government signed an agreement with a and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, for those private sector partner, Steria Ltd, to create a joint staff members who transferred to SSCL under TUPE venture to deliver back-office services to 13 Government arrangements from DWP and DEFRA. That was put in customers. The resulting company, known as Shared place to try to mitigate the impact of key redundancies Services Connected Ltd, was formed from a consolidation associated with the move to the new target operating of some existing shared service centres including the model. Although that was not mandatory, both parties Department for Work and Pensions, the Department felt it was important to try to support the staff with for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the continued employment. Environment Agency. In addition, in-scope services The Cabinet is also proactively negotiating re- delivered by UK Shared Business Services Ltd are employment protocols with further Departments and expected to move across by 2015. agencies, including the Department for Education and It is important to keep in mind that the model is the Office for National Statistics, where there are suitable not a conventional outsourcing one. As the contracts roles locally. We are confident that we are doing all that are constructed, the bigger the volume, the lower the we can to support SSCL staff with re-employment, unit price goes, so it is in everyone’s interest, whether within the confines of TUPE law and Government Government, private sector partners or employees, for policy. If I may, I should like to send the hon. Gentleman the centres to win additional business from other a follow-up letter with more detail about those processes, Departments and from the private sector in the UK and to put some assurances behind those words. overseas. If business grows, and there is an opportunity The next stage of the SSCL transformation programme to grow the business and to recruit more jobs into it, is to establish the four centres of excellence. The Alnwick public services can be delivered at lower cost. The office, previously a DEFRA site, will not be a centre of taxpayer will share in the upside. excellence, but will remain open until June 2015. SSCL In order to develop SSCL as a world-class services hopes to move some NHS shared business services organisation, it formally entered a transformation phase actively to Alnwick, to retain it beyond 2015. on 31 March 2014, which involves IT harmonisation, offshoring and the adoption of a centre of excellence Paul Blomfield: I thank the Minister for his assurances model, which is considered good practice across the about letters and initiatives. Will the Cabinet Office shared services sector. We believe that that will reduce extend the intentions he outlined across all Departments, costs, increase efficiency and deliver a consistent and move quickly? There is a limited window, before performance and an improved customer experience. people lose their jobs, to ensure that there are proper As the hon. Gentleman said, the centre of excellence redeployment opportunities across government. consultation process commenced during March, and following discussions with employees, clients and trade Mr Hurd: We are certainly negotiating re-employment unions, four of the existing eight core sites were selected protocols with other Departments and agencies, including as centres of excellence. Those are York, Peterborough, DFE and ONS, but perhaps I may clarify the detail in Blackpool and Newcastle. Initial proposals were to the letter I shall be sending. As the hon. Gentleman close the other five sites. However, after consultation said, we all know that any job loss is a personal tragedy and due diligence with clients and employees that was for the individual concerned and their family. We want reduced to three—Sheffield, Cardiff and Leeds. Alnwick to minimise insecurity connected with that. The process will remain open, although not as a centre of excellence. is clearly difficult, and we are as confident as we can be The sites selected as centres of excellence were the ones that it is being handled with appropriate sensitivity. considered most likely to be able to serve existing customers, However, if the Members of Parliament for the affected while also ensuring the sustainable future growth necessary constituencies have substantial evidence that that is not to provide value for money to the taxpayer. the case, we want to know. We will follow up such The core of the hon. Gentleman’s concern was exit evidence, because we understand the sensitivities and and re-employment. I listened with concern to some of want to test the assurances we are given. the points he made, and I undertake to write to those In this context there is no black and white world; involved to make his concerns clear and seek assurances offshoring has been a feature of many successful about the way in which some tough decisions on redundancy Government contracts signed during this and the previous are being implemented. I will come back to the hon. Administration, including a joint venture involving NHS Gentleman with my view on the quality of the information shared business services, which created jobs and expanded I get back. the number of its offices from two to 13 in the past We believe that SSCL has approached the centre of 10 years. Offshoring is not in itself an absolutely bad excellence strategy with some sensitivity to the impact thing. I shall certainly contact Reshore UK to make it that it will have across the business, sharing plans with aware of the hon. Gentleman’s concerns. employees at the earliest opportunity, undertaking roadshows to explain the implications directly, and briefing 11.30 am employees on the proposals for site closures and the Sitting suspended. 97WH 9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 98WH

Rural Crime understanding is that those specials rarely have access to a police vehicle, so they have no means of patrolling the area in which they are supposed to be helping. [MR MIKE WEIR in the Chair] Perhaps it would be better to spend the money used for mobile police stations on more rural community officers 2.30 pm and the vehicles that they need to get around Kent more Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): quickly. It is a delight to serve under your chairmanship today, Rural crime cost the UK an estimated £42.3 million Mr Weir, for this important debate. in 2012. Organised gangs are increasingly targeting My constituency has a number of important industries, high-value tractors and other farm vehicles, stealing including paper making, brick making and pharmaceuticals, them to order and shipping them overseas. One of the but it is also semi-rural, with an important farming frustrations felt by farmers is that there appears to be industry. I want to highlight some of the worries about no recognition from the Government or senior police rural crime that people in my constituency have—in officers that rural crime is often closely linked to serious particular, my farming community and those who live criminal activity, much of it across international borders. in remote areas. First, however, I pay tribute to Kent In isolation, rural crimes appear to be one-off, unrelated police in general and my local officers in particular, events; in fact, they are often interrelated and funded by who, within the constraints of continual pressure on the activities of criminal gangs and terrorist organisations. their budgets, do what they can to protect those of us For example, despite the best efforts of farmers to store living in rural communities. their supplies of ammonium nitrate-based fertilisers in Do not get me wrong; I understand the need for the secure facilities, large amounts have been stolen. As Government to bring down the deficit and know that hon. Members are probably aware, ammonium nitrate the police force must do its bit to help. However, I want fertilisers are used to make home-made explosives and to see a rebalancing of how the Government grant is have been a component of some of the most devastating allocated, to ensure that rural areas and semi-rural terrorist bomb blasts in the world. areas such as my own receive a fairer share of the cake. Criminal gangs will steal anything that they can lay That is the nub of our problem. We worry that, given their hands on—from combine harvesters to quad bikes, the increasing pressure on police budgets, rural areas from animal medicines to agricultural chemicals. One will continue to take second place in the allocation of farmer in my constituency, who happens to be a good resources. friend of mine, had a gate stolen from his field. Shortly The truth is that people in rural areas often feel that afterwards, he installed a brand-new gate, which cost they are last in line for services: they sometimes have to him several hundred pounds. The very next day, the put up with inferior roads; they often have no local second gate was stolen. That is rural crime. My farmer school; they almost always have a poor internet connection; friend was pretty sure he knew who was responsible for and they rarely have a police station. In short, they feel stealing his gates, but he did not bother to contact the isolated, and that isolation increases their fear of crime. police, because he has no faith that they—or, more A recent National Farmers Union survey showed pertinently, the Crown Prosecution Service—would do that a quarter of rural crimes go unreported. Farmers anything. That, too, is a frustration for farmers. take the view that reporting a crime is a waste of their Last year in my constituency, the police raided a farm time, in particular if that crime is considered by some that was believed to be owned by criminals—not farmers, other people as little more than a minor misdemeanour. I hasten to add. The police found 35 chassis removed The survey also showed that 50% of farmers said that from stolen Land Rovers, a stolen tractor unit and a the police failed to devote sufficient resources to tackling 40-foot stolen trailer containing £50,000-worth of rural crime, while a further third felt that insufficient contraband alcohol smuggled in from the continent. action was taken when crimes were reported. Some 38% They also recovered several thousand pounds in cash, of farmers have been victims of crime, including theft, diggers, fork-lifts trucks, quad bikes, car parts and arson, criminal damage, poaching and illegal fly-grazing. drugs. All the goods were seized, but there were no If 38% of people living in a city were victims of crime, it convictions because the CPS felt it would be too difficult would be considered a crime blackspot. Why is such a to prove that the occupiers of the farm were handling high level of crime among farmers deemed acceptable stolen goods. in some quarters? Earlier this year, another serious incident in my In Kent, it has been recognised that rural crime is a constituency involved two women driving a Range Rover problem. Our police and crime commissioner, Ann into another car, which they claimed had cut them up in Barnes, has pledged to improve rural policing with the traffic. The two women used their mobile phones to call use of mobile police stations. We welcome any initiative their boyfriends, who arrived on the scene and beat up that highlights the problem of rural crime, but many are the driver of the car, hospitalising him. The police went sceptical about the worth of mobile police stations and to the Traveller site where the attackers lived and arrested would prefer the money to be spent on boosting the two of the three suspects. At the same time, they discovered number of police officers dedicated to tackling rural 200 fighting cocks, nine stolen dogs, a cock-fighting crime. training wheel, drugs, several stolen cars and £50,000 in In Kent, we have only six rural partnership police cash. The third suspect was traced to another Traveller officers to cover the whole county. Two of those officers site and was also arrested; at the same time, another cover not only my constituency, but an area that stretches £25,000 in cash was recovered. from Thanet in the east of Kent to Dartford in its Where do such large amounts of money come from? extreme north-west. Special police constables have been They are the proceeds of rural crime, including illegal used to support the rural partnership officers, but my betting on cock fighting and hare coursing, both of 99WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 100WH which activities see huge amounts of cash change hands. Poaching is also a crime, yet there is evidence that Hare coursing in particular is becoming an increasing criminals go out with dogs and snoop round farm problem. At this point, I will read from a letter that I buildings and fields in search of something to steal. If received from the wife of a farmer in my constituency. It challenged, they admit to poaching because they are prompted me to apply for the debate. I have amended confident that the police regard poaching as a trivial the letter slightly to protect the identity of the people matter and hardly a crime. We must make police officers concerned: who operate in rural locations understand that poaching “Dear Sir, is as serious as any other crime and often has links to more serious crimes. The Isle of Sheppey has a population of over 36,000. During the summer this number is more than doubled. We have read in In my constituency, three poachers recently killed 150 the local newspaper about yet another reorganisation, but the fact pheasants in one go. Those poachers ranged in age from remains that police presence on the Island is inadequate. 11 to 14 years. They were using an illegal, unregistered On Saturday 2nd November 2013 we had cause to phone 999 section 1 firearm—a .22 rifle. When it was recovered, as there were four men with dogs coursing hares on our farm. there was a spent cartridge still in the breech and the Only one patrol was available. No criticism is intended or implied individual carrying the rifle was found to have in his of the individual officer, but he had no realistic chance of apprehending possession 200 rounds of illegally held .99 mm pistol four experienced criminals who were playing ‘cat and mouse’. ammunition and various other weapons. Those three With assistance from my husband they were caught, but yet again boys were arrested again three weeks later after stealing have got away with it. a bicycle, and yet again shortly after that for breaking This incident was not an isolated one. There have been six into a shed using tools from a robbery that had gone incidents here since September 2013. We have witnessed them all undetected. and found numerous gates open on all six occasions. This is done The problem with poaching is that it is too often seen deliberately so that the dogs have an unimpeded chase after the hares. by the public, and sometimes the police, as being almost romantic—“one for the pot”—like boys scrumping. In 2012 we had twenty four incidents of this kind, all of which What they do not understand is that many poaching were reported. Some incidents were attended by the police and events are sponsored by criminal gangs operating from some were not. Of the twenty four incidents, arrests were made on only two occasions. In the first case the culprits received £250 Traveller sites and pubs in Kent where competitions are fines and we are still waiting for the £15 victim cost. held, again involving illegal gambling when the winner is the one with the highest number of dead animal In the second case the CPS abandoned the case only informing heads. us the day before the hearing. This cost us money as we had already made arrangements for someone to care for our animals Mike Bax, chairman of the crime rural advisory during our absence. The CPS claim there was insufficient evidence group that advises Kent police and the Kent police and for the charge that was brought. Our view is that the case was crime commissioner on rural crime, gets over far better dropped to save money. (It has been reported that the CPS drop than I can the way in which poaching has wider implications 500 cases a week). than “just one for the pot”. He said that All this unsatisfactory state of affairs causes us much distress. “200 pheasants poached at the game dealers price of” We are not young and resilient like we used to be and we fear 50p per head reprisals. My husband in his seventies and not in the best of “looks like a loss to the breeder of £100. However, it also health. He has worked hard for twenty years in a government probably means that a day’s legal shooting has to be cancelled backed environmental scheme to improve wildlife on the farm. with a gross loss of £6,000. 15 or 20 beaters lose a day’s work at Now we suffer from people coursing hares—something it is illegal £20 per head, the local pub loses the meal booking and possible for us to do as owners of the property. accommodation booking. And other physical damage has probably We are now in despair and have reached the stage where we been caused on the ground. may as well let these people have their fun without interruption.” These multiplier effects on simple incidents illustrate the impact of even day to day rural crime with such events generally affecting Let me read that last paragraph again: the community at large rather than just an individual. Nevertheless, “We are now in despair and have reached the stage where we the events are so commonplace that the rural community consistently may as well let these people have their fun without interruption.” fails to report the original crime and somehow we have to change that mindset. That is shocking, and it is why we must do something The police tackle the problem to the best of their ability, but about spiralling rural crime. they are thinly spread and intelligence is the key.” Hares are in serious decline, despite being a key Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): I apologise indicator species for conservation efforts funded by the for being a few minutes late for the hon. Gentleman’s EU through agricultural subsidies. The sad truth is that debate. A problem in a rural part of my constituency currently the only beneficiaries of the noble efforts by has been people coming on to land pretending that they our farmers to conserve our hares are the criminals who have hunting rights when in fact they are just there for are killing them as part of illegal gambling gangs who criminality. What we found helpful, as the Minister will view the potential fines as an acceptable occupational be aware, was that a group of local residents in Esclusham hazard. If those who regularly attend hare coursing and Ponciau came together and worked on a digital events attended 10 events and were arrested and caught mapping scheme so that land use was determined and at just one, resulting in a £250 fine, it would amount to put on that digital map. That is a good idea in such £25 per event. Compared with the thousands of pounds situations. that change hands through illegal gambling, £25 is nothing. If we are to protect people such as my constituents, Gordon Henderson: I welcome the hon. Lady’s farmers believe the fine for hare coursing should be intervention. I have heard about digital mapping. All increased substantially and I would like the Government the ways of helping to solve crime are about intelligence-led to take that message on board. Hare coursing is rural policing, which is what I am talking about at the moment. crime. Mike Bax continued: 101WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 102WH

[Gordon Henderson] my area certainly know where every single animal has come from. Something is going wrong; perhaps the “With thousands of people spread across the rural areas Minister could answer. people must learn that it is not a failure if the police do not make an arrest. The very fact that the incident has been reported to the Gordon Henderson: Or not—people might be taking police provides them with intelligence. it along to illegal, unlicensed or backstreet abattoirs. Perhaps the identity of the vehicle, a description of the clothes They might be cutting the animals’ throats in a back the offender was wearing or a boot print in the mud, might well shed somewhere. That is the problem. We have the issue prove vital on another occasion. of not being able to trace from farm to fork, but also Further more regular reporting by the community provides the that of animal welfare and animals being slaughtered police with information on crime patterns. Using that they can inhumanely. make predictions and be in the right place at the right time more often, thereby responding more effectively.” Another rural crime that I want to touch on is That is intelligence-led policing, which is what we are fly-grazing. That is the unauthorised grazing of land by talking about. horses and ponies, whether or not the owner of the horses is in breach of a previous agreement or has Intelligence gathering and digital mapping are fine, simply placed the horses on the land without discussion but dedicated rural police officers must act on that with the owner or tenant of the land. Fly-grazing is intelligence. Rural dwellers are being subjected to increasing becoming an increasing problem, with several thousand levels of intimidation and violence. The National Farmers horses being grazed on land without permission. I Union is aware of gamekeepers waking up to find their understand that the problem has become worse in the dustbins and pheasant feeders stuffed with dead birds past three years, particularly since the introduction of as a warning. One gamekeeper was shot at with 1.5 horse passports and microchipping, which were intended ounce lead balls—any shooters here will know that that to increase the traceability of horses—particularly those is pretty hefty shot—while driving. Another narrowly likely to enter the food chain. escaped serious injury when bringing his daughter back The NFU is calling for the following action, with from school. Two men stepped out into the road in which I have some sympathy. It wants fly-grazing to be front of him and deliberately shot his windscreen out made a criminal offence, so that action can be taken to with similar sized lead balls. The point is that poaching bring offenders to justice swiftly. It wants the Horse is rural crime. Passports Regulations 2009 to be amended, so that they We then have livestock rustling, which is also becoming form a streamlined set of rules, meeting the minimum an increasing problem. It is estimated that 60,000 sheep requirements of the relevant EC directive, thereby helping were stolen in 2011 alone. The broader implications of to improve traceability. It wants the Animals Act 1971 livestock theft are very serious, because once animals to be amended to bring it into line with the best of the are stolen, they are no longer tracked by the movement private Acts of Parliament that enable local authorities databases in place, increasing the risk of another foot- to act when horses are left on private land; it wants it to and-mouth epidemic. In addition, meat entering the be clear that the 1971 Act covers animals deliberately food chain through livestock theft cannot be traced placed on land by their owners. from farm to fork and it may be subject to unhygienic The NFU wants police forces to develop procedures slaughterhouse conditions and contamination that risks for dealing with horses on the public highway that take human health. account of bio-security in addition to respecting property rights. Police should be aware of the danger of spreading Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): I congratulate diseases such as African horse sickness when seizing or the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate; he is making moving horses. The union also feels that local authorities some very good points. Where there is livestock rustling, should be prepared to offer surplus land for rental to whether it be sheep or cattle, does he agree that one of horse owners, where appropriate and compatible with the curious factors is what is happening at the point of surrounding land use. the slaughter of those animals, in terms of proof of I have touched on fly-grazing because, again, it is a identification? It is a real curiosity that the meat could rural crime. However, there are many other rural crimes find its way into the food supply chain. that cause problems for farmers, such as fuel theft, metal theft, vandalism, trespassing, arson, criminal damage, Gordon Henderson: I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s fly-tipping, illegal Traveller sites and illegal raves. There intervention; that is exactly the point I am making. If are too many and they are too varied to mention in sheep are removed from a database system that tracks depth today, but they are all rural crimes. them from farm to fork and they are let into the black In conclusion, I want to relay to the Government the market, there is no way of ever tracing that, so yes, it is a worries of those of my constituents who live in more problem. It is a problem because, again, livestock rustling isolated rural communities. They are worried that rural is a rural crime, but one of those that people forget crime is increasing and that it is given a lower priority about. than urban crime. They are worried because they rarely see a member of the police force on duty in their Huw Irranca-Davies: My point is a continuation of community and because they feel forgotten by the that. If 60,000 sheep are disappearing through rustling, Government, local authorities and the police. I very somehow or other they are washing up somewhere and much hope that the Government will take steps to entering the food supply chain, at a point where an reassure my rural communities that they are just as abattoir owner, a slaughterhouse man or a processor is important as urban communities, and ensure that they asking that individual, “Where did this shipment come receive the policing to which they are entitled and they from?” It is an interesting point, because the abattoirs in deserve. 103WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 104WH

2.55 pm three priorities in the highly complex area of the Thames Valley, where there are many other pressures on his Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con): It is a pleasure to resources, has approached tackling it. serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir. I start by referring hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Little things can make a big difference. The first thing Members’ Financial Interests and by saying how glad I is ensuring that a police officer turns up and responds am to see the Minister in his place; I look forward to his to every single incident. It sounds strange to say that addressing some of the points we are raising in this police officers did not do that in the past, but there was important debate. I pay great tribute to my hon. Friend a way of reporting rural crime that often made it seem the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon much more trivial than it actually was. The term “theft Henderson) on securing this debate on an issue that is from unoccupied premises” immediately makes one think of great importance to so many of our constituents. of an allotment shed perhaps when in fact it could be, as my hon. Friend mentioned, a farmer’s store, with It is for the Minister to answer on behalf of the large amounts of ammonium nitrate, large pieces of Government, but the Government have made changes machinery or livestock. Ensuring that we define rural that devolve responsibility for much of these matters crime is therefore very important. away from this place, away from the hands of Ministers and away from Government to police and crime There is very good news about rural crime. In my commissioners. I confess to having been relatively agnostic area, it has dropped by 20% in one year. That is through about the creation of those posts when they were first a clear reporting system, lots of very good work by mooted, but the more I look into it, the more I see what police forces and the priority being given to rural crime they are achieving, particularly in my area. I see the by the leadership, both at chief constable level and at value of electoral accountability on such issues. If police police and crime commissioner level. If everything else I and crime commissioners want to be re-elected by the say is forgotten, this is the really important point, and large number of people who live in rural areas, they will I am sure that it is one with which the Minister would have to address precisely the issues that my hon. Friend agree. This is not just about the police tackling the raised, if they are not doing so already. problem; it is about all of us who live in rural areas playing our part. I think that educating landowners, I am pleased to say that Anthony Stansfeld, the farmers and rural managers about crime and what they police and crime commissioner in the Thames Valley, can do is very important. has made rural crime one of his top three priorities. I am also pleased that police and crime commissioners all I am particularly interested in the CESAR system—the across the country, working together on a number of construction and agricultural equipment security and issues, are developing a rural crime initiative. That registration system—which puts transponders and indelible surely is very welcome and a credit to them working marking on large pieces of machinery or high-value across parties—of course, many of them are of no pieces of equipment and ensures, for all the equipment party at all—and making sure that they are joining up that a farmer buys, whether it is a new pick-up, a large and sharing best practice and tackling rural crime. piece of machinery or just a chainsaw, that the serial numbers are gathered and recorded at the start of his My hon. Friend made a good speech, setting out ownership of that equipment and stored so that they precisely what rural crime is. He made the very good can be traced. That is important because, as my hon. point that it does not accord with the quaint and Friend relayed, there can be cases in which large amounts slightly bucolic view that some might have—through of equipment are found and the issue is not just returning some of our writers, painters and through other forms the equipment to the person to whom it belonged of culture—about historic areas of rural crime, such as before it was stolen, but establishing a pattern of criminality how poaching may have happened for the pot in past that can lead to convictions. What we know about many years. This is a very serious area of criminality: it is aspects of rural crime is that a very few people are often about the widespread stealing of plant and machinery; committing a lot of crimes, and if we can feel their it can be about people trafficking; firearms can be collars, crime rates plummet. That has been proved to involved; and there many cases in which intimidation is be effective in my area. used, not only of the victims or potential victims of Another way in which we can all play our part is by crime, but to make people commit crimes. There is joining schemes such as the countryside alert system, increasing evidence in the Traveller community that which 10,000 people are now part of in the Thames some people who are not willing participants in criminal Valley. Under that system, we can use technology to activity are more or less forced, by a very few people in help to beat the criminal by keeping people informed that community and elsewhere, into committing acts about suspicious activity and crimes that are being that they would not otherwise carry out. committed. It is about instantly being able to mobilise a It is also important that we understand that crimes large number of people to be aware of a problem that that take place in towns are very often carried out by may be occurring in their area. people who do not live in those towns and who travel a I want to touch on the issues of animal welfare that long way away from them, or that crimes committed in my hon. Friend also mentioned. We should be under no the countryside are carried out by people who live in illusions about the fact that many of the activities towns. We should not assume that this is an isolated relating to the theft or killing of wild animals in the issue, or a niche area of criminality that we can deal context of rural crime are really unpleasant stuff. No with on its own. It has to be seen in the context of crime one should be under any illusions that there is anything across the piece. attractive about that activity at all. Gangs of people I mentioned Anthony Stansfeld, the police and crime have caused havoc at times in parts of my constituency commissioner for the Thames Valley. I have been looking by coursing deer. It affects farmers and landowners closely at how he, by making rural crime one of his top such as Kirsten Loyd, who informed me of recurring 105WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 106WH

[Richard Benyon] used as evidence to secure a conviction. People can spend a lot of money on anti-crime measures that are problems on several nights running that involved 4x4s no good when we look at the product at the end of the driving on to land, gates being smashed and deer being day. pulled down by running dogs and often just left. In Much rural crime, as I have said, is down to a some cases, they had to be humanely dispatched as a few—sometimes a very few—people who stalk the result. On my own property, I have found people coursing countryside prepared to steal anything that is not nailed hares, from 4x4s, with long dogs, and when they kill the down. They take advantage of the fact that many fewer hare, they just drive round it in circles, wrecking the people are working in the countryside and of the isolation crops and leaving the carcase of the animal. These are of business premises and some of the places where not nice people, and if they are challenged, it is very high-value goods are stored. We need to ensure that often by one person, and that person is at severe risk of rural crime is a priority at policing level, that we continue assault. Indeed, we have had circumstances in which to offer support through our position in Parliament and firearms have been used in a threatening way. the Government, and that we recognise the importance There is also some good news, however. My hon. of this issue to our constituents. There can be a sense of Friend talked about the difficulty of getting a fine siege if this activity is happening night after night in imposed that means anything—that is a true reflection their areas. Only through a combined, partnership effort of the damage, fear and uncertainty that these crimes and this issue being a priority of elected politicians can are causing among rural people, but also of the on-costs we ensure that the problem of rural crime ceases to prey from the effects of these crimes. I sometimes have to on the minds of people who live in rural communities. rack my brains to think of really good things to say about the last Government, but here is one. They passed 3.9 pm section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002, which has given the police an invaluable tool in dealing with Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): It is a real crimes that would otherwise attract a relatively cursory pleasure to serve under your stewardship again, Mr Weir. sentence. It allows them to seize a vehicle that has been I congratulate the hon. Member for Sittingbourne and used in connection with a crime. The vehicle can then be Sheppey (Gordon Henderson) on securing the debate crushed or sold, but will not be returned to the perpetrator and on his wide-ranging contribution, stretching across of the crime. It has had an enormous effect in allowing the panoply of issues that cover rural crime. It is sometimes police to tackle some of the criminality in rural areas. I difficult to establish exactly what is rural crime, but I commend that legislation and hope that it is being used think the essence of it is that it is non-urban crime. properly by police forces up and down the country. There some similarities between urban and rural crime— My then neighbouring MP, just across the Thames in theft of oil, for example, often takes place in the heart Oxford, Boris Johnson, and I, just after I had got of my urban communities, but it is a significant issue in elected, both identified a problem of dog theft. Sometimes rural areas—but there are some special areas of concern when we raised it, people would smile or slightly roll in rural communities. The hon. Gentleman covered a their eyes as if that was not a big thing. It is a horrible wide range of them, and I commend him for doing so. crime. It deprives people of what are sometimes very Livestock rustling is a concerning and fascinating valuable—they are certainly valuable to them—companions area. As I mentioned in my intervention, the fact that and working dogs. It particularly involves working dogs— 60,000 sheep disappear is of great concern and has a sheepdogs, gundogs and so on—and it continues to be a significant effect on those who make their livelihood problem. Dealing with it requires intelligence gathering, from the husbandry of livestock, but of equal concern an understanding of how important the issue is to our is the question of where they are disappearing to. Where constituents and a coherent approach, right across police are they washing up within the food chain? How are forces; it cannot be governed just by the boundaries of they entering the food chain where there is no traceability the particular area. I am so impressed by the work that whatsoever? That is a real issue. I hope that the Minister, has been carried out by many people and organisations in discussions with his colleagues in the Department for that encourage people to have their pets microchipped. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, will address how There are all sorts of other methods that we can also we clamp down on that further without imposing additional use to take the battle to the criminal and reduce the risk burdens on the farming community. We have to make of these very unpleasant crimes. sure that when animals present at abattoirs and meat In conclusion, we can all play our part. I agree with processors, they can be identified and traced back to the my hon. Friend: the most depressing thing that we hear farm and the landowner. as MPs is people saying, “Well, there’s no point in my The hon. Gentleman drew attention to metal theft, reporting this.” If people do not report crimes, however another crime that affects urban areas but is of significant trivial—even if it has not been established that a crime concern in sparsely populated rural areas. Many criminals, has been committed, but there is a suspicion of a including perpetrators of quite serious organised crime, crime—we cannot then complain if the police say, “Well, see rural areas as an easier target because they offer an we have no reports of serious criminality in that area. opportunity to get away with criminality without the Therefore, we are putting our resources where we know prying eyes of CCTV on every street corner. that crimes are being committed.” Everyone has to The hon. Gentleman also mentioned fly-tipping, a report crimes. long-running issue that has costs and is associated with There are small things that can be done. One might criminality. It is not an incidental occurrence involving consider putting CCTV in farm buildings where there hard-pressed people; the perpetrators are criminals who has been a persistent problem. We need to ensure that are trying to get away with not paying their dues towards we put in the right quality of CCTV, so that it can be landfill by simply dumping in the countryside. Ultimately, 107WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 108WH landowners and local authorities pick up the cost for The hon. Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey collecting and disposing of such waste, so we must raised the need for better collaboration to tackle serious constantly push forward with measures to tackle the and organised crime, and I agree entirely. Interestingly, problem. there are good examples of predominantly urban police forces deploying their resources to assist predominantly Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South rural areas. In my own area, South Wales police provides Pembrokeshire) (Con): I am interested in the shadow significant financial support, resources and expertise to Minister’s view on whether the increased use of technology deal with serious and organised crime in Dyfed-Powys, in urban and suburban areas is driving the practice out. for example, which covers the largest rural area in Has the technology got so good in urban and suburban Wales. We must ensure that police forces collaborate to areas that the problem is simply being spread over a deal with such issues. wider rural area? The hon. Gentleman covered so many things in his speech that he did not have time to tackle one of the Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Gentleman makes a biggest areas of serious crime—illegitimate gangmaster good point. Increased tightening up in urban areas activity. In a neighbouring constituency to the hon. displaces criminal activity. Curiously, that brings me to Gentleman’s, within the past year a large group of another issue raised by the hon. Gentleman where there Lithuanian workers were seized, found living in the has been displacement of activity, namely fly-grazing. most appalling portakabin-style accommodation. They At a well attended debate in this Chamber about six were not being paid the minimum wage, deductions months ago, hon. Members from England and Wales were being made from their pay left, right and centre, discussed the matter. When we talk about fly-grazing, and they were being kept in the most appalling conditions we are not talking about the individual pony or horse by an illegal, illegitimate gangmaster. The Gangmasters that we occasionally see on an estate, tethered by a rope Licensing Authority was a great innovation after the to a peg in the ground, where we worry about the Morecambe bay tragedy. This shows that there the animal welfare considerations and wonder why the animal GLA is still needed, and I say to those present of all is there. Neither are we talking about some within the parties that it must still be adequately resourced so that Traveller community who have a culture of keeping the it can be effective—lean, mean, efficient and nasty in odd horse and parking it somewhere temporarily. There dealing with illegitimate gangmasters. The people who is serious criminality behind fly-grazing, as we know in suffer most from that aspect of what is predominantly Wales, which is why, as I am sure the Minister is aware, rural crime are the legitimate operators—the food producers the Welsh Government recently worked with local and farmers—who are undercut by those criminals. authorities to change the law in Wales. Gangmasters and trafficking are often linked to other serious crime such as drugs or money laundering, so The change in the law in Wales was designed to deal they must be tackled. with the massive incidence of fly-grazing, in which hundreds of animals were being parked on environmentally The hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) sensitive areas, or in which landowners would find that has a great deal of experience as a former DEFRA their fences were demolished and animals appeared on Minister and a landowner. He mentioned the role of their land. In such cases, the local authority would have our new police and crime commissioners in influencing to go through all the bureaucracy involved in seizing the priorities on rural crime. There are good examples of animals, many of which were in very bad condition, and best practice, and we must ensure that it is spread out to absorb the cost of looking after them. If no owner came others so that they can choose whether to implement it forward to claim ownership of the animals, the local in their own areas. We could argue that the old police authority would be obliged to auction them off at a authorities, if they had been so minded, always had the knock-down price after giving them a full veterinary opportunity to deploy a rural focus on certain aspects overhaul and making sure that they were all okay; only of crime. Some PCCs have stood up and said publicly to find that, lo and behold—what a surprise—the owner, that they will focus on certain aspects of crime. As the although never declaring themselves as such, would hon. Gentleman rightly said, we all need to play a part, turn up and buy the lot of them, and a couple of weeks and because of the nature of the challenges in rural later they would appear in another farmer’s field or in areas, landowners, farmers, neighbourhood watch, farm another area of environmental sensitivity. watch and farm contractors must come together to tackle the problem. The Labour Welsh Government have changed the law in Wales, but one direct outcome of the change has been I was glad that the hon. Gentleman mentioned the to displace that activity; it has moved elsewhere. Let us section 59 reforms on the seizure, confiscation and be frank about this: it is serious, organised, large-scale destruction of vehicles, because it saves me from having criminal activity. We are not talking about the odd to do so. The reform is a welcome innovation, because it individual; the police have identified family concerns hits those involved in such crime, hard and rapidly. My involved in such activity. Instead of just going over the hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan border, the problem is starting to wash up in English Jones) made an intervention, which I will return to in a counties such as Hampshire. It seems to have been quite moment, following on from her recent excellent debate. well planned. What conversations has the Minister had I would welcome the Minister’s response on whether with ministerial colleagues in DEFRA on the matter? he is minded to consider extending the fly-grazing enabling Is he minded to consider a change in the law to ensure powers to local authorities in England. That would be a that such criminal activity is not displaced across the huge step forward. Why not do it? It would not impose border into England, and that local authorities have costs on local authorities in England, but would save the tools to deal with the problem, should it wash up on them money. At the moment there are huge costs to their borders? them for looking after the animals and getting them 109WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 110WH

[Huw Irranca-Davies] bullying and harassment cannot be tolerated, but I hope that it is accepted that there is a role for legitimate veterinary treatment, and for the enormous bureaucracy protest in any sphere. There are regularly people protesting and delay before an owner suddenly pops up to take outside Parliament. them off their hands at a knock-down price. No one should condone illegitimate threats or I wonder whether the Minister has recently met DEFRA intimidation from whatever angle they come, but my Ministers to discuss the numbers of police and PCSOs point is that if £2 million was spent in Gloucester, and if in rural areas. Has he had any representations from we are to continue the cull this summer in the reasonable those Ministers about the possible effect of those numbers expectation that those costs will continue, we cannot on matters that have been referred to this afternoon, deny that that will mean a displacement of police activity, such as hare coursing, wildlife crime, the massive increase short of the Minister telling us he has found another in fuel theft from rural homes as well as businesses, £2 million to defray the costs. He may say so, and that livestock rustling, fly-grazing, and organised crime in would be fine—but let us hear it. At the moment we relation to heavy plant, farm equipment and agricultural have no clarity about costs. I agree with all the points machinery? If he has not met Ministers, does he plan to that have been made about stretched resources in rural do so soon? areas, and if they are stretched even further in Gloucester There is a contentious issue that we need to deal with. and Somerset we should be honest with the public We have mentioned that police and crime commissioners about the impact. have flexibility and public accountability in determining priorities for their areas. Setting aside for a moment the Simon Hart: I take the shadow Minister’s point, but controversy about whether badger culling should be does he concede that there would be no cost to legitimate, part of an overall TB eradication strategy, a fascinating lawful, peaceful protest? The only cost is for dealing aspect of recent discussions is the fact that there have with illegal elements. Legitimate protest comes at zero been significant policing costs, but we are left to guess cost. what they are. However, that involves a direct input; there is a displaced cost—a cost-benefit issue. Huw Irranca-Davies: Absolutely—theoretically the What is the effect on other aspects of policing of hon. Gentleman is right. In practice, we have seen being forced to put significant amounts of restricted the reality; immense policing costs are absorbed so that policing money from a finite resource into the policing the culls can happen. That is my point—not debating of badger culls? The Minister shakes his head; I shall the culls but asking the Minister directly what the costs continue with the point. Those other policing issues were, and what they will be. It is right for the electorate include fly-grazing, hare coursing, the theft of oil from in the affected areas to know that. The Government farm businesses, and poaching. At the moment, our said that police and crime commissioners would bring best estimate, based on statements—or semi-statements—in transparency, and with such transparency the electorate the public domain by chief constables or police and could debate the priorities in their area. Alternatively, it crime commissioners is that the cost over nine weeks in would be possible to go cap in hand to the Minister to Somerset was £740,000, and it was just short of £2 million say, “Give us some more money, because this has taken over the extended duration in Gloucestershire. a fair bit out of our area.” A positive and constructive part of the debate has Simon Hart: In mentioning that he was not talking concerned collaboration. I welcome the establishment about whether there should be a badger cull, the shadow of the national rural crime network, which has brought Minister made his point obliquely; but does he agree together many partners across the UK, including at the that the entire cost of policing the badger culls was for last count 18 police and crime commissioners—with policing illegal harassment and activity by animal rights more, I understand, to come. That has happened with organisations? Should not that be the focus of our the assistance of, among others, the Rural Services attention, and does not it support the point made by my Network—to which we should pay tribute—with the hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey purpose of increasing collaboration and sharing best (Gordon Henderson) that if anything contributes to practice on rural crime, in the face of continuing rural disillusionment it is the fact that rural people acknowledged budgetary pressures. stand back and watch those things unfolding, while Collaborative work on rural crime is also being done very little happens to deal with them? Perhaps there is in Wales, and that includes the rural crime mapping now a good opportunity to deal with illegal harassment scheme which my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd by animal rights activists, rather than to make an oblique South mentioned today and discussed at length in a point about the cull. previous debate. It is an excellent initiative, in which rural crime is electronically mapped and is highly visible Huw Irranca-Davies: My point about the cull is far to all partners, making it possible to identify and share from oblique, because I am focusing on the costs. Today information about what is happening and what to watch is not the time to rehearse again the debate about out for. I applaud my hon. Friend for raising awareness whether the tool of culling is integral to the eradication of that. of bovine TB. The costs issue is paramount: there is a I was recently in Suffolk where a dedicated team of real cost-benefit analysis to be done. If the figures that I special constables has been established, focusing on have given, such as the £2 million spent in Gloucester, particular aspects of crime on farms and in rural are correct, that will raise an issue. I hope that the communities. There is some flexibility to determine Minister will tell us whether the figure is correct or in local priorities and collaboration. Established schemes the right ballpark—perhaps he will say it is nothing like such as country watch, farm watch, horse watch and so it and is way above the right figure. I agree that intimidation, on, go from success to success—so there is good practice. 111WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 112WH

These are difficult times for policing, because of stretched we have made strong inroads into arresting the deficit, budgets, but collaboration is one way forward. I would more must be done. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor welcome the Minister’s response to my queries—particularly of the Exchequer announced earlier this year that further about his collaboration with DEFRA Ministers. cuts will be required into the next Parliament. That will mean that difficult decisions will have to be made, and 3.29 pm we should not shy away from that. The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims Despite all that, we have pushed to secure the best (Damian Green): It is always a pleasure to serve under possible deal for the police and protected them again for your chairmanship, Mr Weir. I join other hon. Members 2014-15, this time from the further cuts to departmental in congratulating my near constituency neighbour, my budgets announced in December’s autumn statement. hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey Central Government funding for the police will be (Gordon Henderson), on securing the debate. His entirely reduced by 3.3% in cash terms in 2014-15, while overall reasonable final point was to request reassurance that funding will be reduced by even less, once the future the Government are aware of and sympathetic to people police precept is factored in. We have also protected who fear rural crime. I can give him that assurance, not funding for counter-terrorism policing, owing to the least because his constituency, as he described it, quite ongoing threat of terrorism. By way of comparison closely resembles mine—that is, it is mostly urban but with that 3.3%, the remaining Home Office budget will has a huge rural area. I suspect that what he hears from be cut by 7% in cash terms in 2014-15. farmers and others who live in villages in his constituency That was the overall context. I now turn specifically is exactly the same as what I hear. to Kent, because many of the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey Huw Irranca-Davies: Will the Minister give way? were about God’s own county. I know that the funding settlement is challenging, but it is manageable. Her Damian Green: I have barely started, but yes, of Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary has made it course. clear that the proportion of officers on the front line is increasing, and we are supporting the police through a Huw Irranca-Davies: I thank the Minister for giving range of activities to help them to respond to the way so early. I forgot to ask about something, but I am challenge and ultimately emerge stronger. I appreciate sure that he can give me some clarification. The issue of that funding reductions have meant that all forces have liaison with Ministers from the Department for had to consider where savings need to be made in terms Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is interesting. I of officers and staff numbers, but, ultimately, decisions understood that a DEFRA Minister was originally on the size and composition of the police work force are going to respond to this debate. I am sure that there is a for the individual chief officers and police and crime good reason why that is no longer the case and why the commissioners. Minister, who is very capable, is present instead. Nevertheless, will he explain? A DEFRA Minister would Of course, Kent has particular rural policing challenges be able to respond on issues such as hare coursing, and the crime sets are different from those in other parts wildlife crime and so on. Having said that, I am sure of the country. However, the police allocation formula, that the Minister will be an able replacement. which distributes the majority of funding to the police, takes account of local circumstances to address the specific needs faced by rural forces. The point about Damian Green: The hon. Gentleman will observe that specific needs has been made several times during the when discussing rural crime we can take either the first debate, and I am happy to assure the House that the or the second word to decide which Department is formula is designed to recognise the extra difficulties responsible. The subject falls neatly between the two, caused by sparsity. and I will happily discuss with DEFRA Ministers the points raised today. I will also discuss his specific point I also recognise the importance of ensuring that we about fly-grazing with Ministers from the Department update the formula to reflect the needs of modern for Communities and Local Government. He is correct policing. That is why the Government are currently to say that such issues inevitably fall between Departments, conducting a fundamental review of how funding is but one of the joys of government is ensuring that, just allocated among police force areas. It will focus on the because something may affect more than one Department, current police allocation formula and the process of it does not fall down a hole between two Departments. damping, as well as looking at the funding landscape as I would like to put the debate into some kind of a whole. Determining how funding should be allocated perspective. I was grateful to hear my hon. Friend the to the police in future is a complex and important Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey say that he matter that will require careful consideration and take accepted the context in which police funding is now time. It will not be completed before 2016, but the first operating. He was right to do so. When we came into phase of the work, an internal analytical review, is office in May 2010, we inherited the largest peacetime already under way. Obviously, we will consult the full deficit in history. Borrowing increased to unprecedented range of partners at an appropriate point in the development levels under the previous Government, without due of that work. consideration for the long-term economic health of the I should emphasise that how the money is spent by country. We are proud of the progress we have made in the forces and police and crime commissioners is at addressing this most fundamental of issues. least as important as the amount that they have to Borrowing as a percentage of GDP is down by a spend. PCCs are key; my hon. Friend the Member for third, our economy is growing and unemployment is Sittingbourne and Sheppey expressed his view about falling. However, we cannot rest there, because although Kent PCC’s priorities in fighting rural crime. 113WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 114WH

[Damian Green] Although crime rates in rural areas tend to be relatively low, rural communities should be able to know what Obviously, we can also do things at the national level crime looks like in their area and to hold someone to to help the police to deal with rural crime. One of them account for doing something about it. I echo the point is the police innovation fund, which is worth up to made by both my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury £50 million a year and represents a new step to incentivise (Richard Benyon) and the hon. Member for Ogmore: innovation and collaboration, as mentioned by the hon. people need to report crime. It is in their own interests Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies). I agree not to say, “It is not worth reporting it.” Inevitably, with him that it is an important way for forces, perhaps police chiefs will concentrate their resources on where those in rural areas in particular, to become more they think they will have the most effect in fighting efficient. The fund will also incentivise digitisation to crime. If crime is not reported, an area may well appear drive efficiencies and improve policing over the long more peaceful than its residents think it is. term. As I said, people need someone to hold to account There is already a £20 million precursor fund, which for doing something about crime, which is precisely why received 115 bids covering a wide range of activity. we have shifted power to local communities through Indeed, Kent and Essex police were successful in a joint locally elected police and crime commissioners. I am bid, showing that collaboration is alive and well in grateful that, since they have come into operation, my Kent. They will receive £440,000 from the precursor hon. Friend the Member for Newbury has been converted innovation fund to support their joint visual media to the virtue of having that local accountability mechanism. evidence and investigation programme. That will allow I know that he has seen benefits for his constituents in video evidence to be captured at, for example, a public the initiatives put forward by the police and crime order event such as illegal hare coursing. That could commissioner for the Thames valley, Anthony Stansfeld. quickly be made available to investigators and analysed I also agree with my hon. Friend’s remarks about target using a range of innovative software techniques, enabling hardening in rural areas for particular types of crime, officers to focus in on offenders and increase the chance often committed against farmers who have valuable of successful prosecutions. I am well aware of the point, machinery on their premises. We need to do exactly made by several Members, that thinking that a crime that. will lead to a successful prosecution is important. As I said, there is a £50 million fund for 2014-15, and I urge Huw Irranca-Davies: Rather than talking about the forces that feel they have a particular issue with rural overall levels of reported crime, hon. Members were crime to put together some good bids to the fund. saying that specific crimes, such as the theft of fuel oil, metals or plant and machinery, are easily displaced to Against the background of the fund and the debate rural areas. Will the Minister tell us whether he has any more widely, it is important to remember that crime is figures to say that those crimes are not increasing? falling and police reforms are working. Overall crime Certainly, the National Farmers Union, the Country has fallen under this Government by more than 10%, Land and Business Association and others will say according to the crime survey for England and Wales, that they are increasing significantly—to the extent that and that is mirrored by the fall in police-recorded crime. fuel theft went up by 166% in one year. That is Nevertheless, I accept the fact that we must keep pace disproportionately within rural areas. with the way crime, including rural crime, is changing. The point has been made that much of what is Damian Green: The figures I was citing from the regarded almost as traditional rural crime is now actually DEFRA digest were, of course, aggregate figures. Within run by organised criminal gangs, and people must be those figures, individual crime types go up for a number reassured that the Government are treating it as such. of reasons—not just in rural areas, but generally.Sometimes, The need to combat organised criminal gangs is precisely the crime rate goes up because it is being better reported, why we have set up the National Crime Agency, which as people think that it is worth doing something allows us, for the first time, to tackle the growing threat about it. of serious and organised criminality. It has been in full Perhaps now is a convenient time to deal with metal operation since October, and is already making inroads theft, as that is one of the points that the hon. Member into criminal gangs. Some of the people who will benefit for Ogmore asked about. We recognise that it has a from that are those living in rural areas who are suffering huge impact on communities, which is why we have from the effects of organised criminality in their taken a number of actions. We have increased the neighbourhoods. financial penalties and banned cash payments. We have I turn to crime in rural areas specifically, rather than supported targeted enforcement through the Government- the general crime statistics. DEFRA’s statistical digest, funded national metal theft task force, which has led to based on data from police-recorded crime, shows that a fall in metal theft. The Scrap Metal Dealers Act 2013 the average rates of all crime types for rural local further tightened the net around rogue dealers who authority areas are lower than for urban local authority flout rules. The task force is funded until September areas. I think that that is intuitively what people would 2014. We have spent £5 million supporting it to give expect. The percentage decrease in crime over the past sufficient time for the reforms to become well established. six years in rural areas is roughly on a par with the The statistics show that there has been a decline in reduction rate in urban areas. The notion that urban metal theft in each quarter of 2012-13. There was a 40% crime is coming down because it is being displaced to fall between April-June 2012 and January-March 2013. rural areas, and therefore rural crime is going up, is I hope that the hon. Member for Ogmore and others simply wrong. Crime is going down in both areas, can take that as some reassurance that effective action although I take the point about the potential for can lead to falls in crimes that are often concentrated in displacement. rural areas. 115WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 116WH

Another important point is greater information and Damian Green: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for transparency. We have the police and crime commissioners that tribute to the unit, of which I know he has much who hold the forces to account, but the public need to experience. As I said, it is an example of a particular be able, in an informed way, to hold PCCs to account problem not being allowed to fall between Departments. and decide whether to re-elect them. That is why we are We have two Departments here working to support the providing more local information about crime and what unit. the police have done in response to it. That information As has also been mentioned, at the national level a is regularly updated on police.uk, the national crime rural crime network has been set up to tackle countryside and policing web portal, which provides the public, crime. So far, it has been endorsed by 18 police and including those who live in rural communities, with crime commissioners. It is good to see PCCs in rural local information about crime and antisocial behaviour. areas coming together in that way. The idea originated On police.uk, the information is presented clearly and with the Rural Services Network, a not-for-profit concisely, allowing the public to access it in a useful organisation that represents a diverse range of rural way. service providers in the public, private and voluntary Hon. Members on both sides have made the point sectors. that some PCCs have prioritised rural crime, which is, The PCCs have convened a good group—not just the of course, evidence of the point made by my hon. network itself, but Farmers Weekly, the national community Friend the Member for Newbury—that having elected safety network, an online crime reporting system called local officials means that they have to reflect what local Facewatch, the CLA and other rural stakeholders. One people want. If they are representing an area with a of the best things the network does is to ensure that best significant rural population, it would be sensible for practice is shared, so that things can be co-ordinated them to reflect that, and several of them have. For and sustained effectively. The network wants to provide example, in north Wales the PCC has put in place a an online resource for the police, community safety rural crime plan, which focuses on engaging with the practitioners and others precisely to share information, rural community and addressing their concerns, including training and development, access to case studies and theft of equipment and livestock from rural areas. The so on. force is providing a presence at farmers’ markets, and a Altogether, the network is one of the more exciting rural crime team has been created. developments, which will enable things to happen at a As has already been mentioned, the PCC in Suffolk national level, although it is absolutely locally based has introduced a dedicated team of special constables, and based on real world experiences. All those involved which seems to be the sort of innovative response that will be able to learn from one another and to work we would all welcome. Similarly, we have already heard collaboratively on new ideas and solutions that will about the PCC in the Thames valley and the introduction benefit local people. of the Country Watch messaging system, which I am There is clearly a lot that can be done with technology. glad to hear from my hon. Friend the Member for I am delighted to see that the hon. Member for Clwyd Newbury is proving effective. South (Susan Elan Jones) has come to this debate. She A lot is happening at the local level, but a lot is also will remember that on 5 March I paid tribute to her happening at the national level. We have the UK national constituents who have gathered information to provide wildlife crime unit, a police unit that assists in the the digital map that, as she explained earlier, is helping prevention and detection of wildlife crime by obtaining North Wales police to tackle rural crime in their local and disseminating intelligence from a wide range of area. Her presence in Westminster Hall today allows me organisations. It directly assists law enforcement agencies to pay that tribute once again. It is a good initiative and in investigating wildlife crime. Some of its priorities I am glad that the information is available; it can be relate to international crime and the enforcement of the accessed through a tablet, which will help the police get convention on international trade in endangered species, to grips with situations in real time. Again, that is an but other priorities are some of the things that we have example of how something developed as a good idea at been discussing today—including poaching, which is a local level can become a piece of best practice that is one of the specific priorities of the unit. spread and can have a national effect. Before I conclude, I will mention a group of people The unit is jointly funded; this goes back to the point who have not been mentioned much—police community that I made to the hon. Member for Ogmore at the support officers. PCSOs play a huge part in effective start. The Home Office provides some funding for the neighbourhood policing. They provide a highly visible NWCU and will continue to throughout the period of presence within communities and an invaluable link the spending settlement. DEFRA provides the same between the police and the communities they serve, with amount of funding for the unit over the next two years. their focus on understanding and identifying local priorities over a long period, as well as on solving local problems, Richard Benyon: My message to the Minister is: long solving low-level crime and engaging with the community. may both Departments continue to do so. Some of the We need only to look at those aspects of the core crimes that a police constable comes across in the PCSO work to see how relevant they are to rural course of his work may be unusual. To have that centre communities. My hon. Friend the Member for of knowledge to whom he can go, who will say to him, Sittingbourne and Sheppey said that people want more “Yes, you can prosecute this person under this piece of visible policing. It is inevitable that in sparsely populated legislation in this way” is absolutely invaluable. Also, areas people are less likely to see a police officer than if it is what the unit does through the partnership they are in an urban area; common sense would suggest against wildlife crime that is of such value to the whole that. Precisely because they have a smaller area to cover wider aspect. and they will not be hauled off somewhere else for 117WH Rural Crime9 APRIL 2014 Rural Crime 118WH

[Damian Green] and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) about the difference between peaceful protest, which we all recognise is response duties, and because they are often in post in a acceptable, and illegal protest and obstruction. Clearly, particular area for longer than police officers, PCSOs the amount of extra policing cost is intimately related can develop that network of relationships in a rural area to the amount of illegality that may go on, so assessing that not only does good things by itself but helps to costs in the future would simply be guesswork. I do not promote confidence among people that there is somebody think it would be sensible for me to do that. However, they can go to who they know and who represents the those are the costs. forces of law and order. Huw Irranca-Davies: Will the Minister give way? Huw Irranca-Davies: Is the Minister telling me that even though these costs are being met from DEFRA’s Damian Green: I was about to talk to the hon. Gentleman budget, DEFRA has made no estimate within its budget about badger culls, but I will give way first. allocations for policing in the future? Surely not. Huw Irranca-Davies: I welcome the warm praise that the Minister has just given PCSOs. Back in the year dot, Damian Green: I am sure that DEFRA Ministers and I sat on the long 13-week Committee that brought officials are doing all that is necessary. I am just saying PCSOs into existence and I see now the massive change that it would be foolish if the hon. Gentleman tried to in the Minister’s party: it originally opposed PCSOs, tie me down to detailed figures now, because until we but now supports them. That is hugely welcome, because make an assessment of the likely level of criminality it is PCSOs are a great asset. impossible to make an assessment of the likely amount In the seven minutes remaining—it is great when we of police activity. I am sure that he recognises that. have lots of time for a Minister to respond to a debate—can In general, I hope that I have been able to reassure my the Minister give us some of the details about the cost hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey of the badger culls? Also, has he considered the extension and others that, first, the Government attach huge of the fly-grazing legislation to England? importance to issues relating to policing crime in rural areas and that, in particular, we have taken a number of Damian Green: I shall repeat what I said earlier—perhaps actions at national level that we can see are having I was not clear enough before—but I will happily take beneficial effects. On top of that, the introduction of away the point about fly-grazing and I will discuss it PCCs has meant that a new raft of innovative ideas are with DEFRA Ministers. The hon. Gentleman will accept being introduced all over the country, and therefore that this issue clearly requires input from a range of being shared all over the country, in ways that will Departments, and I am happy to seek that input. Let further benefit people who live in rural communities me take this opportunity to deal with a number of and who have as much right as people who live in urban issues; I will tease the hon. Gentleman by coming to the areas to expect a decent police presence, decent policing issue of badger culls last. and decent anti-crime activities. The hon. Gentleman asked about the process to stop stolen animals from entering the food chain. On 1 April, What we see from all this activity is that the PCCs DEFRA launched the animal reporting and movement and the forces are bringing innovative ideas into reality, service, a new digital system to record and trace sheep and they are creating modern forces that can meet, in movements. It gives farmers the option to report particular, the ever-changing demands of modern policing. electronically. All markets and abattoirs are connected When people think of modern crime, they tend to think to the system, so anybody who has suspicions now has of online crime, fraud and so on, but the debate has an easy and painless way to report them. been instructive in pointing out that the crimes that On the issue of badger culls, the policing costs are people who live in rural areas are facing are also changing. £2.3 million in Gloucestershire, £446,000 in West Mercia Consequently the police response and the response of and £739,000 in Avon and Somerset. Those are indicative the wider public need to change too, in aspects such as costs. We are yet to receive the report from Her Majesty’s target-hardening. The point that fighting crime is, in a inspectorate of constabulary that reviews the resources sense, the responsibility of all citizens—although we deployed in respect of the badger culls; that report will give specific powers to the police, PCSOs and other obviously give the final figure. I should add that DEFRA crimefighters to lead the charge—is a good one. We all has agreed to pay all the additional policing costs. have responsibilities. I hope that that answers the hon. Gentleman’s question. I return to the first point made about the funding settlement. Of course that creates challenges for PCCs Huw Irranca-Davies: I thank the Minister for that and forces, but those who are prepared to innovate, response; it is great to have it accurately now on the collaborate, transform their forces and use new technology record. Can he tell us whether those costs are for the to drive efficiencies will find that it is possible not only year just gone, and does he have the costs for the year to beat their budgets but to police more effectively than ahead? Based on the Government’s decision last week, before. I absolutely believe that that is as true in rural the two culls in Gloucester and Somerset will continue areas as it is anywhere else. There are many ways in for the year ahead. Does he have an estimated figure for which rural policing is improving and can continue to the costs in the year ahead? improve, so the fact that, as the crime survey shows, our streets are safer than ever—[Interruption.] Damian Green: I do not, for the very good reason that we cannot possibly know what the policing requirements will be. The hon. Gentleman had an instructive exchange Mr Mike Weir (in the Chair): Order. There is a with my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West Division in the House. Is the Minister about to finish? 119WH Rural Crime 9 APRIL 2014 120WH

Damian Green: I am. I was about to say that those in Income Distribution and Taxation rural areas will be as well treated as those in urban areas. 4.23 pm Mr Weir: Order. We will suspend for the Division. If Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): I am there is one vote, we will return at 4.15 pm. If there are pleased to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir, two votes, we will return at 4.25 pm. If both the hon. and to welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) and the Loughborough (Nicky Morgan), who is having a double Financial Secretary to the Treasury are here for the next personality day. She started as Economic Secretary and debate before then, we can start earlier. ended as Financial Secretary. I congratulate her on her well-deserved promotion, and I am very pleased that 3.59 pm she is still able to respond to this debate. I wrote to her Sitting suspended for Divisions in the House. earlier today to congratulate her on her innovative way of avoiding responding to my debate, but she is stuck with me for the next 29 minutes or so. I secured the debate because, although I touched on the matter briefly in my short contribution to the Budget debate, it was, as you know, Mr Weir, time limited, and I did not have a chance to make all the points I wanted. In the debate running up to the Budget, there was a lot of discussion about “middle-income taxpayers” and what that meant. I want to set out what I think the Government’s priority should be and congratulate them on landing the income tax cuts in the right place on the income scale. In the run-up to the Budget, a number of newspaper articles—there was one in The Guardian—referred to middle-income earners being dragged into the 40p tax bracket, but that is not a sensible use of “middle income”. Even the Leader of the Opposition used the phrase, saying that “if you are in the middle, paying 40p, you should be pleased to pay more”.—[Official Report, 19 March 2014; Vol. 577, c. 797.] He was referring to what he said was someone else’s argument. In the Labour party’s list of 24 so-called Tory tax rises, four of them are changes to the higher rate threshold. It seemed slightly odd for the Labour party to complain about ensuring that those on higher incomes paid their fair share in dealing with the deficit. While I am touching on that list, it is interesting to note that the spare room subsidy, which is a housing benefit issue—the Opposition insist on calling it a tax—was not on it. That was a very good demonstration of the fact that even they accept in their heart of hearts that it is not really a tax, even though they keep trying to call it that. That was an aside, but the point I wanted to make about 40p taxpayers is that I am not saying that they are rich; they are not. Equally, they are not in the middle. Looking at the 2013-14 tax year, someone would pay 40p tax only if they had £32,010 of taxable income, which is on top of a £9,440 personal allowance. They would have to earn a gross income of £41,450 to pay that tax rate. In 2011-12—the most recent year for which the detail is available—the income distribution figures show that a higher rate taxpayer is in the top 14% of income earners. For that year, the median income was £20,300. Some helpful projections have been done using the Office for Budget Responsibility’s economic and fiscal outlook. They show that the median income was £21,000 in 2012-13 and £22,200 in 2013-14. That is only just more than half the income someone would have to earn to pay the 40p tax rate. If I look at the level of income in my not untypical constituency—these figures are for 2011-12, the latest ones available that are broken down by parliamentary 121WH Income Distribution and Taxation9 APRIL 2014 Income Distribution and Taxation 122WH

[Mr Mark Harper] said about raising the allowance, that the impact of the tapers on people in receipt of universal credit will be constituency—the mean income of all taxpayers is £24,300, such that, for somebody just above the tax threshold, and the median income is only £18,800. If the overall the rate of withdrawal on both a first and second earner national figures have gone up by some 10% since 2011-12, in a family will be as high as 76%? Is there not a danger we can use that assumption with the constituency figures, that that gives people a perverse incentive to work fewer but that would take the median figure to only a little rather than more hours, because they do not reckon over £20,000. That figure is for total income. If we look that they are being rewarded for the extra hours, or to at how that is split between the self-employed, the do undeclared work? employed and pensioners, the figures present a different picture. However, it is clear that the median taxpayer is Mr Harper: The right hon. Gentleman is right to not earning anything like enough to pay the 40% tax drawn attention to the tapers and the withdrawal of rate; they are paying basic rate tax. That is why I benefits as people earn income—of course, they are thought the Chancellor’s Budget judgment was right. high—but this issue was raised during the Budget debates. I even looked at parliamentary constituencies that However, the fact is that, under universal credit, the people would generally accept as having a higher than withdrawal rates and the tapering arrangements mean average number of people earning good incomes. A that there is a smaller rate of withdrawal of benefit than piece of data that is available from the Office for National under the existing levels of benefit. I am sure the Statistics shows that even in constituencies with a high Minister will correct me if I am wrong; this is not an level of mean income—Kensington, Cities of London area that I have studied in detail. The issue the right and Westminster and Chelsea and Fulham—the numbers hon. Gentleman raises is important, but it is always a are clearly driven by a small number of well-remunerated challenge to deal with the withdrawal of income-related people. The median income in those constituencies is: benefits and to be careful that the effective marginal £37,900 in Cities of London and Westminster; £36,200 rate for people is such that it is always worth their while in Kensington, and £34,300 in Chelsea and Fulham. working. Ideally, we want to get that marginal rate as Even in those constituencies, the median taxpayer is not low as possible, but it is expensive to drive it down to a paying anything close to 40% tax. low level. My understanding is that, under universal The focus should be on delivering tax cuts for the credit, those withdrawal rates of benefit are lower and lower paid and those on more modest incomes and that therefore more encouraging of people to work, either is what the Chancellor did in his Budget. He made it more hours or in the first place, than under the existing clear that the personal allowance was going to rise in combinations of income-related benefits. this current tax year, which has just begun, to £10,000 and next year it rises to £10,500, which will lift more Mr Andrew Smith: My understanding is that the rates than 3 million of the lowest paid out of income tax are higher for people working more hours, for 35 hours altogether. He also confirmed, rightly, that the higher or more. The hon. Gentleman is right in that the rates rate threshold will rise a little bit as well, for the first are lower for people working fewer hours. That is my time in this Parliament, which means that everyone on worry—the perverse incentive for people to work less. incomes up to £100,000 will benefit from some tax cut, but obviously the main benefit is for those on a lower Mr Harper: If I am picking that up correctly, the rate. right hon. Gentleman is saying that at lower levels of The list of tax rises that the Labour party put out earning, or for people who work fewer hours, the effect referred to the higher rate income tax threshold cuts of universal credit is— earlier in this Parliament, which were equitable and made to ensure that those significant rises in the personal Mr Andrew Smith: I should correct that. It is not that allowance did not disproportionately benefit higher rate the rate is lower; it is that people will be better off taxpayers. Of course, if the personal allowance is increased working fewer hours, as compared with the position and the higher rate threshold is not changed, someone under tax credits, whereas those who are working 35 on 40% tax has income moved out of that band into the hours or more will be slightly worse off under universal basic rate band and gets a bigger benefit than someone credit than they would have been under tax credits. The on basic rate tax. That would be wrong. The judgments withdrawal rate is 76%, just above the tax threshold, that we made earlier in this Parliament, when we had to under universal credit. make difficult financial decisions, to share the pain and have the burden on those with the broadest shoulders, Mr Harper: I cannot answer the right hon. Gentleman’s were right. I am pleased that the Chancellor confirmed detailed question, because I have not studied the matter, that. but the other thing that he needs to do—I am not sure By virtue of increasing the allowance, the Chancellor whether he has incorporated this into his judgment—is was able to show that, looking at this Government’s tax look at the interaction of the tax changes that we have arrangements, compared with the previous Government’s made with the benefit system. Over this Parliament, policy, everybody earning up to £100,000 is better off. there will be a significant increase in the personal allowance They have all had a tax cut, but the tax cuts are more from what it was in 2010-11 when we came to power, focused and bigger for those on lower earnings. and what it will be when this Parliament finishes, from something in the order of £6,000 or £6,500 to £10,500. Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): I congratulate A lot of people on lower incomes, such as those on the the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate on an minimum wage, are moved out of the taxation system important issue. I resisted intervening on the bedroom altogether. Previously, people could be on a relatively tax and so on because I wanted to make this point. modest income and paying tax, but at the same time Does he share my concern, notwithstanding what he getting various income-related benefits. 123WH Income Distribution and Taxation9 APRIL 2014 Income Distribution and Taxation 124WH

I think that I have set that out carefully, but if I have trying to do the right thing, but who are finding things not, the Minister will do so in her response. Otherwise, difficult—although with the improving economic news, because the debate is not about universal credit and she they will see rises in their incomes above the rate of might not have all those facts at her fingertips, I am sure inflation, therefore making them better off in real terms. she is happy to write and to set it out in detail later. I Those are the people we should focus on and I am am, however, grateful for the point made by the right pleased that, in my judgment, that is exactly where the hon. Gentleman. Chancellor aimed his Budget. That is why I was very pleased, in my short speech in the Budget debate, to Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): I will commend it to the House, and why I am very pleased to be quick, as the hon. Gentleman does not have much support the Finance Bill. time. I thank him for giving way, but when the present Government came to power basically someone did not 4.42 pm start paying tax until just over £6,000. I do not have the The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nicky Morgan): exact figures with me, but if we take into account, for It is an honour to serve under chairmanship, Mr Weir. example, 6% inflation over the past four years, the value May I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for of the £10,000 threshold that has been introduced drops Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) both on securing the by £1,200. In other words, had the £6,000 been pushed debate and on presenting his case so eloquently? I was up for inflation over the past four years, we might arrive also in the House when he spoke in the Budget debate, at a different value for the benefits to be got out of which I think was his first debate as a Back Bencher for £10,000 before paying tax. a while. He spoke incredibly eloquently then and it is a pleasure to hear him again today on the same subject. I Mr Harper: The hon. Gentleman makes half a sensible am delighted to be answering the debate, regardless of point. He is right that the personal allowance would the title that I happen to hold in the Treasury. I have to have gone up because of indexation in line with inflation— get used to a new one as of this afternoon, and it is a the statutory provision, unless the Chancellor decides pleasure to be here speaking on this important topic. not, in which case he has to set out why—but by only a As my hon. Friend said, the message that the Government relatively modest amount. The difference between what wanted to go out from the Budget was that we are on it would have gone up to had we simply indexed it and the side of hard-working people and that work should the great increase to £10,500 next year is a significant always pay. As I shall come on to show, the other policy change and has made a real difference to people message is that this Government very firmly believe that on lower incomes, many of whom will have been taken people should keep as much of their own money as out of tax completely. possible, so that they spend it in the best way for Finally, to look at the impact in my own constituency, themselves and for their families in order to provide under the tax changes this April a further 381 people security for their families—rather than the Government are taken out of tax altogether, but 37,223 people telling them how they should spend it. benefit from the rise in the personal allowance. If we In the time available to me this afternoon, I would take the figures for the whole of the Parliament, 4,334 like to speak about the impact that the Government of my constituents will have been taken out of paying have made on getting more people into work, and then income tax entirely by the significant changes in the about the impact of the personal allowance and the personal allowance. That significant benefit incentivises other steps we have taken and how they help those at people, particularly at the lower end of the income the bottom of the income scale. Finally, I want to speak spectrum, to work, and it is why there are several about the percentage of the tax burden taken on by thousand more people in my constituency in work now those at the top of the income scale, which I think my than there were in 2010, when this Government were hon. Friend also mentioned. elected. Before I do so, it is worth making hon. Members In the environment we are in, where we have a limited aware that the latest available statistics show that in amount of money and we cannot cut taxes for everybody, 2011-12, UK income inequality was the lowest since we should focus our help on those who are lower paid 1986. As the Office for National Statistics noted, that and who are genuinely on middle incomes, which, as I was partly due to earnings falling more for those at the said, are incomes of about £20,000, and not numbers top of the income distribution than for those at the beginning with threes or fours. In my constituency, I bottom, but it was also magnified by the changes that can see that that is where the benefit should be focused. this Government have overseen, particularly in the tax It should be a priority both for this Government and for and benefit system. our party to make sure that we are delivering benefit to Of course, one of the best ways in which a Government as many people as possible. I am pleased to say that the can reduce inequality is by tackling unemployment, message I took from the Budget, after listening to the which will increase incomes for those at the bottom end Chancellor’s speech very carefully, was that that was of the scale. We have seen clear evidence that the labour where he has aimed our tax changes. market has continued to strengthen this year. Record I agree with the right hon. Member for Oxford East numbers of people are in work. Employment increased (Mr Smith) about the focus. The welfare changes that by 396,000 over 2013 and was 574,000 above its pre- we are making, with the benefit cap and the changes to recession peak in the final quarter of last year. universal credit, which I think, overall, have increased Wage inequality for all employees is also reducing. In the incentives for people to work, are the right messages. 2013, the 90:10 ratio, a common measure of inequality, The very simple one is that work should always pay and showed that wages at the top were 3.9 times higher than that we are trying to use our changes to the tax system wages at the bottom, a smaller difference than in any to benefit the many hard-working families who are year of the previous Government. 125WH Income Distribution and Taxation9 APRIL 2014 Income Distribution and Taxation 126WH

[Nicky Morgan] low earnings and some savings, meaning that everyone with a total income of less than £15,500 will not have to This Government are by no means complacent and pay any tax at all on their savings income. we continue to introduce reforms that will support I turn to the share of taxes and benefits within employment and wages. From last Sunday, both businesses income distribution. As well as lowering the tax contribution and charities have been able to claim the employment of the poorest, it is worth noting that the Government allowance to reduce employer national insurance have increased the percentage of tax paid by the wealthy. contributions by up to £2,000 a year. From next April, My hon. Friend mentioned that in his speech. This year, national insurance contributions will be abolished for the top 1% of income tax payers will pay more than all under 21-year-olds who earn up to £813 a week. 28% of income tax revenue, so overall the wealthiest Those measures will make it easier to take on new will pay more in tax in this Parliament than under the employees, particularly young employees, and will therefore previous Government’s plans. If any hon. Members help get even more people into work. When we have got dispute that, I point them to the Treasury’s distributional people into work, it is important that they keep as much analysis, which is published alongside the Budget, and of their money as possible, and the Government believe was praised by no less than the Treasury Committee as that raising the personal allowance is the most effective an outstanding document, which clearly shows that the way to support those on low and middle incomes and to richest 20% of households continue to make the greatest reduce inequality. contribution towards reducing the deficit. Before this As all hon. Members will be aware, last month’s Government took action to reduce the deficit, the richest Budget announced that the personal allowance will 20% contributed around three and a half times as much increase to £10,500 in 12 months. This month, it increased in tax as they received from public spending. That has to £10,000. That means that by next April, a person on now increased to around four times as much. median earnings will pay more than £800 less income tax per year than in 2010-11, and will be more than I am conscious of time, and the following debate, £570 better off than under the previous Government’s which has been delayed because of Divisions, so I will plans. It will also lift another 288,000 low earners out of conclude by saying that while repairing the broken income tax altogether, increasing the total number taken economy we inherited, this Government have managed out of tax by our personal allowance increases to over to oversee the development of a fairer tax and benefits 3.2 million. system in which everyone contributes to reducing the deficit, and those with the most make the largest It is worth noting that in addition to the personal contribution. allowance, those earning the October 2014 national minimum wage and working full time will have seen In 2015-16, the net contribution from the richest 20% their income tax bill fall by more than two thirds since of households towards reducing the deficit will be larger 2010-11, and someone working 31 hours a week on the than the contribution of the remaining 80% of households. national minimum wage will not pay income tax at all. Employment is increasing, taxes for the lowest-paid are The Budget also helped people to save. As well as decreasing and, as the International Monetary Fund getting more people into work and allowing them to forecasts confirmed yesterday, our economy is recovering. keep more of their income, we want to provide further That is good news on all fronts, and I am sure it will be support for the lowest earners by abolishing the 10% welcomed by all hon. Members present. starting rate of tax on savings and extending the 0% I thank my hon. Friend for organising such an important rate to the first £5,000 above the personal allowance. debate and for allowing me to make these points this That measure is expected to help 1.5 million people with afternoon. 127WH 9 APRIL 2014 Work Capability Assessment 128WH

Work Capability Assessment either declared fit for work or awarded ESA immediately after the completion of an initial work capability assessment. 4.49 pm Table 3 sets out the number of new claimants who appeal fit-for-work decisions and, of those decisions, Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): It is a pleasure how many are upheld or overturned. to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir. My debate this afternoon is about an aspect of employment and In the most recent bulletin, published on 27 March, support allowance. Since March 2012, I have managed the two tables told us that between the introduction to secure four debates on different aspects of employment of ESA in October 2008 and December 2012, and support allowance and the work capability assessment 1.89 million new claimants were assessed and 949,000 that underpins it. This is the fifth. Last week, I led a were declared fit for work. Of those—the fit-for-work wide-ranging debate on the migration of incapacity group—339,700 appealed the decision and 125,600 were benefit claimants on to employment and support allowance, successful and were awarded ESA as the outcome of the but today I want to focus on something much more appeal. In percentage terms, 36% of fit-for-work decisions limited—the statistics that the Government publish on were appealed and 13% of fit-for-work decisions were the number of decisions to refuse employment and successfully appealed. Of the appeals that were made, support allowance that are subsequently successfully 37% were successful. Eventually, we reach a figure of challenged. Before I do so, it might be useful to set out 7% of all decisions being successfully appealed. There the journey of a typical ESA claimant, both before and appear to be signs that where people are represented at after recent changes, to put this issue in context. appeals, a higher proportion of appellants are successful. The claim process will generally start with a telephone The key point that I am trying to make is that I and call to Jobcentre Plus. Cases are passed to the Department many others had long assumed that the data in table 3 for Work and Pensions contractor—currently Atos—which included both informal appeals to civil servants—those sends claimants a form to fill in. It is known as the were always available, even before mandatory ESA50 form. After that is returned, Atos can call in a reconsideration—and formal appeals to judges. If that claimant for a face-to-face assessment or submit advice were the case, we would be able to work out an overall to the Department on the basis of the evidence already overturn rate and form a view on the effectiveness of available. The decision is made not by the contractor, the initial work capability assessment process. If that but by someone in the DWP called a decision maker, was felt not to be performing as well as it might, we who will either award the claimant ESA or declare them would be able to support the case for improvements. In fit for work. September last year, Nick Dilworth, a welfare rights specialist, contacted me to suggest that that might not The claimant may think that the decision is wrong, be the case. He suggested that table 1a—the first table, either because it is a fit-for-work decision and they feel which appears to be about decisions as they were first that they are not fit for work, or because of the group in made—took account of the outcomes of applicants’ which they have been placed. Even if they secure the requests for reconsideration, or in other words their benefit, they can be placed in one of two groups: the informal appeals. He suggested that table 3 looked only work-related activity group or the support group. They at appeals to tribunals, which is the formal stage of the have different levels of conditionality and different financial process. implications, so that is another issue that people obviously have concerns about. I raised that issue in a letter to the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr Hoban), who was then the Minister Up until October 2013, people in the situation that I responsible for ESA, on 27 September 2013. The reply I have described had two options: they could lodge a received, dated 2 November 2013, from the Minister of written appeal to Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals State, Department for Work and Pensions, the right Service or ask the decision maker to reconsider the hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey), suggested original decision. Since October, however, a claimant that I was correct and that table 1a included decisions who objects to the decision on their case has to go on which there had been a reconsideration and an through reconsideration first. Only if the decision maker individual had been awarded the benefit. Table 1a is the upholds the original decision is the appeal route available. initial decision as made by the DWP decision maker on That change, referred to as mandatory reconsideration, the strength of the recommendation from Atos. Table 3 was one of the provisions of the Welfare Reform Act is only formal appeals. 2012. For the purposes of today’s debate, I want to distinguish very clearly between what we might describe I subsequently wrote to the UK Statistics Authority as the formal appeals to judges and the informal appeals on 20 December 2013, and I received a reply from the to DWP civil servants who deal with mandatory chair, Sir Andrew Dilnot, on 21 February this year. He reconsideration. said: The Minister will no doubt be aware that one of my “We have concluded that the title of Table 1a in the quarterly central concerns about ESA has been and is that too statistical release Employment and Support Allowance: outcomes of Work Capability Assessments, Great Britain is potentially many sick and disabled people are wrongly being assessed misleading, as you suggest.” as fit for work. In making that argument, I regularly refer to the quarterly statistical bulletin that the DWP As a result, we now know that table 1a does not give an prepares. It is called “Employment and Support Allowance: accurate picture of the number of people declared fit outcomes of Work Capability Assessments”, and two for work and awarded ESA immediately after the initial tables in it are of particular use to those of us who are work capability assessment, and table 3 does not include monitoring and watching what is happening. Table 1a all forms of appeal. professes to set out the number of new claimants—people Why is that important, and what might it not be who are claiming ESA for the first time, not those who showing? To use a simplified hypothetical example, have previously been on incapacity benefit—who are imagine that 100 people claimed ESA, of which 50 were 129WH Work Capability Assessment9 APRIL 2014 Work Capability Assessment 130WH awarded benefit and 50 were declared fit for work. If we requested reconsideration of an ESA refusal, but in a were subsequently told that 25 of those who had been number of cases that message does not seem to have declared fit for work successfully appealed their decision, found its way to Jobcentre Plus offices. As a member of we could say that the assessment process was getting the Work and Pensions Committee, we have already one in four of the decisions wrong. If we then found out received some written and oral evidence from witnesses that of the 50 who had initially been awarded ESA, suggesting that that is the case. They are encountering 25 got the benefit only after an informal appeal or people found fit for work and going through the mandatory mandatory reassessment, we would have to say that the reconsideration process who have gone to the jobcentre assessment process was, in fact, getting one in two to claim JSA because they no longer get ESA. They decisions wrong. Its level of performance would be have been told that they are not fit, so cannot claim significantly worse than we had previously thought. I JSA. That is still happening. use those figures for the purpose of debate, and I am Secondly, the distress resulting from the process could not suggesting that the performance of the WCA is that lead to deterioration in people’s mental health. Claimants bad in reality. with pre-existing mental health conditions and those The fact is that without statistics on the number of who apply without them become stressed during the successful reconsiderations, we simply do not know. process. There is a risk that people who might have That is particularly pertinent given that statistical bulletins successfully overturned their fit-for-work decision simply published recently suggest that the number of successful give up at some point in the process. I have met a appeals has fallen significantly in recent years. In 2009 number of constituents with mental health issues who there were 41,000 successful appeals, in 2010 there were end up in that position, often in the context of their 37,000 and in 2011 there were 28,900. In 2012, apparently, asking about access to a food bank or what they will do there were only 7,400, although the dates mean that at when they cannot get any benefit. While no system will that stage, many of the processes might not have been ever be perfect, there should be a legitimate expectation completed. That may reflect improvements to the WCA, that the decision is right first time. Everyone says that which mean that fewer people are incorrectly assessed that is what they want, and there is no lack of suggestions as fit for work. The Government regularly claim to have on how it could be achieved. I have raised some in implemented all the recommendations of the four previous Adjournment debates, and I know that colleagues independent reviews, although I would take issue with have, too. I am sure that the Minister will be interested that if I had longer. to look at the information that has come to the Select The Minister might well want to portray the drop as a Committee in written submissions to the current inquiry. positive consequence, but it could reflect delays in the They contain many suggested improvements. claim process. The statistics identify how many people Now that we have mandatory reconsideration and a who started a claim in a particular year subsequently lot more people going through the process, it is important lodged an appeal and received a decision. It is not that the Minister considers a change to how statistics inconceivable that someone applying for ESA in late are reported, and specifically to the WCA outcomes 2012 could still be awaiting the outcome of an appeal bulletin. First—this is a simple change—Sir Andrew when the statistics are compiled. Dilnot suggests in his letter of 21 February that table 1a should be relabelled to make clear that it already accounts The other possibility is that the drop in appeal numbers for reconsiderations. Specifically, he said: could suggest that the WCA process is still producing as many incorrect decisions as it was before, but that those “The Authority will review compliance with this request as are being addressed through requests for reconsideration. part of following up on our recent statutory assessment of these statistics, and this will therefore inform in part our consequent However, because there are no separate statistics published decision as to whether to confirm the designation of this set of on reconsiderations, we just do not know. It is becoming statistics as ‘National Statistics’.” much more of an issue than it was when a reconsideration I hope that the Minister will simply say that he will be was optional, rather than mandatory. People have to go doing that; he has had Sir Andrew’s letter for nearly two through mandatory reconsideration if they want to months. contest the decision, which increases the number of reconsiderations and could skew the statistics even more. That simply labels things better, so people understand It might look as if the WCA is performing better than it better what they are reading. Over and above that, I actually is. would submit that the format of the bulletin should be revised, so that the first table excludes not just appeals Why are overturned decisions a problem? If people but reconsiderations, and simply sets out the number of eventually get the benefit they are entitled to, is there a people declared fit for work and awarded ESA immediately problem? I think there are several problems. First, it is after the completion of the initial work capability distressing for someone to be found fit for work when assessment. they know that they are not. It opens up the prospect of having to claim jobseeker’s allowance, under which Effectively, there would be three tables: one for the claimants face the prospect of being sanctioned if they people who are found fit for work initially, or initial do not apply for a certain amount of jobs every week. decisions; one for reconsiderations; and one for formal Claimants are increasingly expected to spend a fixed appeals. What exactly is happening would be clear, and number of hours looking for jobs and to take reasonable it would enable people to tell how each part of the offers. While that might be appropriate for someone process works. I am sure that the Department will have who is genuinely fit for work, it is understandable that management information from which such tables could someone who is not would be worried about having to be constructed. put themselves through the process. Ministers have said In conclusion, until the changes are made, the crucial on several occasions that staff should amend the statistical bulletin will continue to present informal conditionality that people are subject to if they have appeals as being part of the initial process when that 131WH Work Capability Assessment9 APRIL 2014 Work Capability Assessment 132WH is not the case. The bulletin could understate the total “since the publication of the statistics is up to 10 months behind number of overturns and overstate the effectiveness of the application reference point, we expect it to take some time for and improvement in the WCA. Only once those changes the effects of such procedural changes to flow through into the have been made and we have separate figures for the published statistics.” outcomes of the initial process, the informal appeals He went on to say that departmental statisticians and the formal appeals will we be able to produce an “will consider your request for more detailed presentations of the overall overturn rate and paint a more robust picture of statistics”. the work capability assessment. That is exactly what the letter said. He went on to look Now is a particularly important time for doing that at that. and getting it right. The provider who has been providing The hon. Lady will know, as will the Chair of the such tests on behalf of and making recommendations Work and Pensions Committee, who is in the Chamber, to the DWP since the outset will be changing in, potentially, that it is not possible for a Minister to instruct his less than a year. Now is when the Department will be departmental statisticians to do statistics in a certain going out to procure a new provider for the tests. way. We can look at something—that is exactly what we Hopefully, a new provider will be more successful in are doing—but I cannot instruct the statisticians to many aspects, one of which obviously is getting it right produce statistics in the way that the hon. Lady has first time. A change to how the statistics are presented asked. I think there is some merit in what she is asking would assist the Department, the Select Committee, to be done, but it will be for Sir Andrew Dilnot and his Parliament generally, members of the public who are team and my statisticians to work together on that. I interested in the matter and all the campaigning groups, know that the hon. Lady corresponds extensively with who want to see a better system, in judging whether that Sir Andrew Dilnot and I am sure that he will confirm has been achieved. That, in itself, will not change the what I have said. system, but it will provide us with the data from which It is important that the statistics are right; all hon. we can make those judgments. Members would want that. The rationale behind mandatory reconsideration was to get the whole thing right. Sir 5.7 pm Andrew Dilnot stated in his letter of 21 February that it The Minister of State, Department for Work and was too early to have the sort of statistics that the hon. Pensions (Mike Penning): As usual, it is a pleasure to Lady mentioned. I am more than happy—and I have—in serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr Weir. the light of the letters that I have seen, and in the light I congratulate the hon. Member for Edinburgh East of the hon. Lady’s requests in correspondence with Sir (Sheila Gilmore) on securing this short debate. Andrew Dilnot, and his comments, to ask my statisticians to look at this to see whether what she has asked for is I have looked extensively at some of the correspondence possible. But I stress again that, as a Minister of the that the hon. Lady has had with Sir Andrew Dilnot, Crown, I cannot instruct statisticians in my Department who runs the UK Statistics Authority. She had let me to do what she asked. It was for them to make sure that see a copy of her speech—she has stuck rigidly to the we have a robust situation, but I can imagine the controversy letter of it—so that I could do some research. I was that there would be in the House if a Minister was slightly surprised, as I believe that Sir Andrew has speaking in the House and it became public knowledge answered, in his letters to her, many of the questions that statisticians had been instructed by a Minister to that she raised today. However, I will try to elaborate on do things in a certain way. that a bit. Mandatory reconsiderations were brought in for reasons Sheila Gilmore: I can understand why it would be a that I think we would all agree with: to ensure that we matter of concern if a Minister told statisticians not to get the decisions right before we go down the enormously record something, but surely a Minister will have a view costly and lengthy route of tribunals and appeals—costly about the form of statistics and the kind of information to the taxpayer and to the individual. A mandatory to be published; and presumably, these are bits of reconsideration can produce the right decision earlier. management information which are there anyway. We have debated at length as to how we can get a shorter distance, so that we can get the right decision Mike Penning: Certainly, Ministers have a view on through. Tribunals and appeals are enormously stressful lots of things, but there is a difference between having a for claimants, and sometimes the length of time is view and instructing departmental statisticians to do unnecessary. If we can get the decision appraised before their statistics in a certain way. I have asked whether I it goes down the tribunal route, which we are doing with have the powers to do so, should I wish to do so, and mandatory reconsiderations, we can save a lot of time, I understand, having received advice, that I do not. It is and it would be unnecessary to go through the tribunal. for my statisticians to work on producing statistics on It still leaves an opportunity for the individual, should mandatory reconsideration in a way that is as informative they wish, to go through the appeals and tribunal as possible, working with the UK Statistics Authority. process, but if we can get the decision right, there will be Regarding the clarification of that point, and with no need to do so, which I am sure is what we would all regard to the very narrow title of this afternoon’s debate, like to see. I honestly thought that Sir Andrew Dilnot had answered The issue about reconsideration of the statistics, which the questions that the hon. Lady has asked in this is the main thrust of the hon. Lady’s speech, was debate, which is why I reiterate that I was slightly something that I thought Sir Andrew Dilnot’s letters to surprised that we had the debate. The hon. Lady knows her, copies of which I have seen, have extensively answered, that my door is always open. We could have openly particularly the one of 21 February 2014. She quoted discussed this matter, if she had had anything to clarify. extensively from the letter, but some other quotes from I know that Sir Andrew Dilnot’s officials are listening to that letter are relevant. He stated, this debate and want to work with her. 133WH Work Capability Assessment9 APRIL 2014 Work Capability Assessment 134WH

[Mike Penning] right before they went to appeal. It is early days yet—it is a bit like the early days with the personal independence At the moment the information is not ready. It is not payment, which we were discussing only this morning, in the format that she is asking for. As soon as it is ready where the early data reveal that the number of cases it will be published. It may not be in the perfect format going to appeal is a lot less than expected. It does that the hon. Lady is looking for. I have asked for this appear that the mandatory reconsideration work is matter to be reviewed, and Sir Andrew Dilnot is doing working, but when the statistics come forward that will the same thing, and I look forward to the response. be for everybody to know. However, I cannot instruct the statisticians to do so and I know that those in Sir Andrew Dilnot’s office are I would not do so. listening to this debate and I am sure that they will correspond with the hon. Lady on the points that I have Sheila Gilmore: I was not suggesting that a lot of the raised in the debate and on points raised by her as well. data would already be there, but we are expecting far more such decisions to be taken. It is important to start Question put and agreed to. planning for that, as I am sure the Minister would agree.

Mike Penning: That is exactly what the statisticians are planning for. Actually, with mandatory reconsideration 5.15 pm we were trying to see whether we could get the decisions Sitting adjourned. 11WS Written Statements9 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 12WS

Following the material concerns that emerged last Written Statements year, relating to overcharging on Ministry of Justice electronic monitoring contracts, G4S has engaged Wednesday 9 April 2014 constructively with the Government. The Government’s approach has been rigorous, and on 12 March my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Justice was able to announce that G4S has TREASURY agreed to repay £108.9 million, excluding VAT, to reimburse the taxpayer for overcharging found in an audit of Equitable Life Payment Scheme Ministry of Justice contracts, and to cover direct costs to Government arising from these issues. This also included £4.5 million to cover the cost of overpayments The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid): made on two contracts for facilities management in the As of 31 March 2014 the Equitable Life payment courts. This was a significant announcement and a scheme has made payments totalling £901 million to positive step for G4S. 860,972 policyholders. The scheme has published a Throughout, the Government have engaged closely further progress report, which can be found at: http:// with G4S to understand its plans for corporate renewal. equitablelifepaymentscheme.independent.gov.uk These discussions have been constructive; and following The scheme has gone to significant lengths to trace scrutiny by officials, review by the oversight group and eligible policyholders, and since the last report in January reports from our independent advisers (Grant Thornton), 2014 the scheme has traced over 110,000 additional the Government have now accepted that the corporate policyholders. Over the coming months the scheme will renewal plan represents the right direction of travel to be reviewing its records to ensure that all proportionate meet our expectations as a customer. and effective actions to trace the remaining policyholders This does not affect any consideration by the Serious have been completed before the scheme shuts. Fraud Office, which acts independently of Government, Any holders of a policy who believe themselves to be in relation to the material concerns previously identified. eligible should call the scheme on 0300 0200 150. The However, we are reassured that G4S is committed to act scheme can verify the identity of most policyholders on swiftly should any new information emerge from ongoing the telephone, which means any payment due can usually investigations. be received within two weeks. The changes G4S has already made and its commitment to go further over coming months are positive steps that the Government welcome. However, corporate renewal is an ongoing process and the Government place a CABINET OFFICE strong emphasis on their full and timely implementation of the agreed corporate renewal plan. The Crown Local and Mayoral Election Guidance (European representative together with Grant Thornton will continue Parliament) to monitor progress as their plan is implemented, reporting to Government on a regular basis. I hope this will enable our confidence to grow. The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster The public rightly expects Government suppliers to General (Mr Francis Maude): Guidance has today been meet the highest standards, and for taxpayers’ money to issued to civil servants in UK departments and those be spent properly and transparently. Since 2010 the working in non-departmental public bodies and other Government have been working to reform contract arm’s length bodies on the principles that they should management and improve commercial expertise in observe in relation to the conduct of Government business Whitehall. These reforms have had a substantial impact, in the run-up to the forthcoming elections for membership saving £3.8 billion in 2012-13 alone. But much more is of the European Parliament, and to local authorities in required, which is why we are redoubling efforts over England and Northern Ireland, and for five directly coming months, including working to build commercial elected mayors. These elections will take place on Thursday skills across the civil service and create a world-class 22 May 2014. The period of sensitivity preceding the Crown commercial service that supports all Departments. elections starts on 2 May. Copies of the guidance have been placed in the Libraries of both Houses and on the Cabinet Office COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT website at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/election- guidance-for-civil-servants Local Planning and Renewable Energy Developments

Markets for Government Services The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Eric Pickles): This coalition Government have reformed the planning process so that communities The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster themselves have the opportunity to influence the decisions General (Mr Francis Maude): The Government are that affect their lives. We have abolished regional strategies, committed to opening up public contracts, with a wide, and their top-down renewable energy targets, and are diverse range of providers competing to deliver high-quality encouraging local councils to work with their communities services. to set out in their local plan where developments for 13WS Written Statements9 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 14WS renewable energy should and should not take place. We DEFENCE have also been very clear that the views of local communities should be listened to. Glasgow Commonwealth Games (Call-out Order) We have published planning guidance to help ensure planning decisions on green energy get the environmental balance right in line with the national planning policy The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Mark Francois): framework. The guidance is designed to assist local A call-out order has been made under section 56(1A) of councils in their consideration of local plans and individual the Reserve Forces Act 1996 to enable reservists to be planning applications. In publishing the guidance, we called out for permanent service as part of Defence’s have been quite clear that the need for renewable energy contribution to the safety and security of the Glasgow does not automatically override environmental protections 2014 Commonwealth games. and the planning concerns of local communities. We In providing venue security support to the Police have also introduced a new requirement for compulsory Service of Scotland and other civil and Commonwealth pre-application consultation with local communities for games authorities, Defence will contribute up to 2,000 more significant onshore wind applications—that is, of military personnel, of which up to 400 will come from more than two turbines or where the hub height of any the reserve forces. turbine exceeds 15 metres. This requirement took effect We plan to call out only willing and available reservists, in December. We will shortly be publishing new planning who have the support of their employer. The order guidance to help secure the intended improvements in takes effect from 8 April 2014 and ceases to have effect how communities are engaged. This is available on the on 6 August 2014. Department’s planning practice guidance website at: http://planningguidance.planningportal.gov.uk/ EDUCATION These are all crucial steps in improving the quality of proposed onshore wind development and ensuring local communities are listened to. Qualifications Reform However, this coalition Government appreciate the continuing concerns in communities when a local decision The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): is challenged on appeal. It is important that local The Government are today announcing the next steps communities continue to have confidence in the appeals in the reform of GCSEs and A-levels. process and that the environmental balance expected by the framework is being reflected in decisions on renewable We are introducing more rigorous content into reformed energy developments. GCSEs and A-levels to be taught from September 2016 and 2015 respectively. On 10 October 2013, Official Report, column 30WS, I Our changes will make these qualifications more announced a temporary change to the appeals recovery ambitious, with greater stretch for the most able; will criteria, for a period of six months. In doing so, I prepare young people better for the demands of explained that I wanted to give particular scrutiny to employment and further study; will address the pernicious planning appeals involving renewable energy developments damage caused by grade inflation and dumbing down, so that I could consider the extent to which the then which have undermined students’ achievements for far new practice guidance was meeting our intentions. too long; and will give pupils, parents, teachers, universities and employers greater confidence in the integrity and I am pleased to confirm that the guidance is helping reliability of our qualifications system. ensure decisions reflect the environmental balance set out in the framework. I note, for example, that prior to GCSEs the guidance, more appeals were approved than dismissed In November of last year, the Department for Education for more significant wind turbines. Since the guidance, published details of revised content for GCSEs in English more appeals have been dismissed than approved for and mathematics, for first teaching from September more significant turbines. Every case should, of course, 2015. be considered on its individual merits in light of local Today, I am publishing revised content for GCSEs in circumstances and the material planning considerations. science, history, geography and languages, which will be taught in schools from September 2016. I am encouraged by the impact the guidance is having but do appreciate the continuing concerns in communities. These GCSEs set higher expectations. They demand I also recognise that the guidance is still relatively new more from all students and specifically provide further and some development proposals may not yet have fully challenge to those aiming to achieve top grades. taken on board its clear intent. Therefore after careful In science, the level of detail and scientific knowledge consideration I have decided to extend the temporary required has increased significantly, and there are clearer change to the appeals recovery criteria, and continue to mathematical requirements for each topic. New content consider for recovery, appeals for renewable energy has been added, including the study of the human developments, for a further 12 months. This criterion is genome, gene technology, life cycle analysis, nanoparticles added to the recovery policy issued on 30 June 2008. and space physics. In history, every student will be able to cover medieval, For the avoidance of doubt, this does not mean that early modern and modern history—rather than focusing all renewable energy appeals will be recovered, but that only on modern world history, as too many students do planning Ministers may recover a number of appeals. now. Greater emphasis has been placed on British history, 15WS Written Statements9 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 16WS which will account for 40% of GCSE rather than 25%, In the sciences, there will also be a new requirement as now; balanced by an increase in the number of that students must carry out a minimum of 12 practical geographical areas studied, and an explicit expectation activities, ensuring that they develop vital scientific that students will study the wider world. The new techniques and become comfortable using key apparatus. GCSE is also clearer about the range of historical This will make sure that all A-level scientists develop knowledge and methods students will need to develop, the experimental and practical skills essential for further from critical assessment of sources to understanding of study. chronology, individuals, events and developments. In history, as well as covering the history of more In geography, the balance between physical and human than one country or state beyond the British isles, geography has been improved—developing students’ A-level students will also now be required to study locational and contextual knowledge of the world’s topics across a chronological range of at least 200 years continents, countries and regions and their physical, increasing breadth of focus. environmental and human features—alongside a In English literature, to ensure a broad and balanced requirement that all students study the geography of the curriculum, specified texts will include three works from UK in depth. Students will also need to use a wide before 1900—including at least one play by Shakespeare— range of investigative skills and approaches, including and at least one work from after 2000. In addition, we mathematics and statistics, and we have introduced a have reintroduced the requirement for A-level students requirement for at least two examples of field work to be examined on an “unseen” literary text, to encourage outside school. wide and critical reading. In modern languages, greater emphasis has been placed Finally, in economics, content has been updated to on speaking and writing in the foreign language, thorough include the latest issues and topics—for example, financial understanding of grammar and translation of sentences regulation and the role of central banks. and short texts from English into the language. Most Copies of the content for these reformed GCSEs and exam questions will be set in the language itself, rather A-levels will be available later today at: https://www.gov.uk/ than in English; and there will be a sharper focus on government/publications using the language appropriately in different contexts, Alongside these announcements, Ofqual is today setting from personal travel to employment or study abroad. out its decisions on how these new GCSEs and A-levels Finally, ancient languages have been given a separate should be assessed—with linear assessment rather than set of criteria for the first time, reflecting their specific modules, and a greater focus on exams rather than requirements. Students will now need to translate unseen controlled assessment. passages into English, and will have the option to All of these reformed A-levels will be ready for first translate short English sentences into the ancient language. teaching in schools from September 2015, and reformed We have also provided greater detail about the range GCSEs from September 2016. and type of literature and sources to be studied, without Awarding organisations will publish their detailed specifying particular set texts. specifications for these A-levels this autumn, and for A-levels these GCSEs next autumn giving schools plenty of time to prepare. I am also publishing revised content for A-levels in English literature, English language, English literature New A-levels and GCSEs from 2016 and language, biology, chemistry, physics, psychology, Based on the advice of the A-level content advisory history, economics, business, computer science, art and board established by the Russell group of leading design and sociology, for first teaching from September universities, I have also already announced that A-levels 2015. in mathematics, languages and geography will be reformed for first teaching from September 2016. The content for these A-levels was reviewed and recommended by Professor Mark E. Smith, vice-chancellor I can announce today that GCSEs and A-levels in of Lancaster university, drawing on advice from subject religious studies, design and technology, drama, dance, experts from higher education establishments and subject music and PE—and GCSEs in art and design, computer associations. science and citizenship—will also be reformed and brought up to these new, higher standards for first teaching at By placing responsibility for the content of A-levels the same time, in September 2016. in the hands of university academics, we hope that these new exams will be more rigorous and will provide Awarding organisations and subject experts will draft students with the skills and knowledge needed for content for these new A-levels and GCSEs over the progression to undergraduate study. coming months, and we will consult on their recommendations for content—while Ofqual consults I thank Professor Smith and all of those involved for on its recommendations for assessment later in the year. their conscientious work and thoughtful suggestions—and All our reforms to GCSEs and A-levels complement I have accepted all of their recommendations for A-level the changes we have already made to technical and content. vocational qualifications, removing those which are not In the sciences, computer science, economics and endorsed by businesses or employer bodies from league business, mathematical and quantitative content has tables, and leaving only those which represent real been strengthened: for example, understanding standard achievement. deviation in biology and the concepts underlying calculus Taken together, these changes mean that every young in physics. person in this country will have the opportunity to In computer science, basic ICT content has been study high-quality, rigorous, demanding qualifications removed and emphasis has been placed instead on across the academic and vocational curriculum from programming and far more detailed content on algorithms. September 2016 onwards. 17WS Written Statements9 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 18WS

These changes will increase the rigour of qualifications, respective contributions that domestic production and strengthening the respect in which they are held by imports make to resilient fuel supplies. It sought to employers and universities alike. understand better the global context and challenges Young people in England deserve world-class facing the oil supply sector, and the impact that market qualifications and a world-class education—and that is distortions and the regulatory framework have on what our reforms will deliver. competitiveness. It also considered what role the Government should play in supporting the sector. Given the recent closures of refineries in the UK, the review had a particular focus on the refining sector in ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE the UK but it also considered the midstream sector more broadly, including the role of the imports sector Scotland Analysis (Energy) and the benefits it brings. The review concluded that resilience and security of supply in the UK is supported by retaining a mix of The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change domestic refining and imported product. This is in line (Mr Edward Davey): The Government have today published with the Government’s energy security of supply strategy the 12th paper in the Scotland analysis programme which recognises the benefits of supply diversity. Global series to inform the debate on Scotland’s future within commercial factors will continue to affect the refining the United Kingdom. market in the UK and the EU more broadly, and “Scotland Analysis: Energy” (Cm 8826) examines the further closures across the continent are likely in future. benefits of the current single energy market across A package of actions has been developed by Government, Great Britain (GB) for managing energy policy and which taken together, could help improve the operating examines the potential implications of independence. environment for the refining and import sectors. The paper concludes that the current single market These measures include the setting up of a new joint has underpinned the success of the Scottish energy Government and industry midstream oil taskforce. This industry, has helped to keep Scottish energy bills down will provide a strategic and collaborative way of working and is the most effective way of managing energy liabilities, and will deliver a number of the actions from the but were Scotland to become a separate independent review. The taskforce will be independently chaired and state, the current integrated GB energy system could draw its members from across the midstream oil sector. not continue as it is now. DECC is also today publishing the Government response Scottish consumers and businesses currently benefit to our consultation on the future management of the from spreading the cost of supporting Scottish energy compulsory oil stocking mechanism in the UK. In this network investment, renewables and programmes to the Government set out their support for the establishment support remote consumers over 30 million households of an industry-owned and operated central stocking and businesses as part of the GB energy market. In the entity in the UK which will encourage a more efficient event of independence, Scotland’s three million households system that incentivises the development of UK oil and businesses would have to meet these costs alone. storage capacity. There are still important issues to Scottish consumers would end up paying more, possibly address before the Government can agree to move to considerably more, for energy infrastructure in an legislation, and so we are now asking obligated companies independent Scottish state than they do as part of the to prepare a road map towards legislation, addressing UK. these issues. The paper also sets out that only a small proportion The review and the Government response to the of electricity demand in England and Wales (4.59%) is consultation can be viewed at: https://www.gov.uk/ provided by Scotland. In the event of independence, government/consultations/call-for-evidence-role-of-uk- England and Wales would not be reliant on Scotland to refining-and-fuel-import-sectors and https://www.gov.uk/ keep the lights on nor would the UK be reliant on government/consultations/future-management-of-the- Scotland to meet its renewables targets. compulsory-stocking-obligation-in-the-uk respectively. Future papers from the Scotland analysis programme Copies of both publications have been placed in the will be published over the course of 2014 to ensure that Library of the House. people in Scotland have access to the facts and information ahead of the referendum. HOME DEPARTMENT UK Downstream Oil Sector

Countering Terrorism The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Michael Fallon): Today, the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) is publishing The Secretary of State for the Home Department the conclusions of its review of the role of UK’s refining (Mrs Theresa May): Protecting the safety of the UK and fuel import sectors. I am grateful to all those who and our interests overseas is the primary duty of contributed to this review. Government. Terrorism remains the greatest threat to As we progress toward a low-carbon economy in the the security of this country. UK, oil products are, and will continue to be, crucial to I have today published the annual report for the our economy and to consumers in the UK for some Government’s strategy for countering terrorism, Contest years to come. The review was designed to assess the (Cm 8848). It covers the progress made during 2013 19WS Written Statements9 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 20WS towards implementing the strategy we published in July That consultation, which ran from 12 September to 2011. Copies of the report will be made available in the 4 December 2013, set out a package of assistance for Vote Office. owner-occupiers of properties affected by phase 1 of The principal threat to the UK continues to be from HS2 that went beyond the legal requirements for militant Islamist terrorists and many of the threats we compensation in recognition of the exceptional nature face continue to have significant overseas connections, of the HS2 project. highlighting the importance of our work with international While elements of today’s decision will be launched partners. The most significant development in connection immediately, I want to make sure we get this decision with terrorism during 2013 has been the growing threat absolutely right, so I will be asking for further views on from terrorist groups in Syria. Several factions of al-Qaeda the newer aspects of this package before we finalise it. are active in Syria, supported by rapidly increasing The details of the package are as follows: numbers of foreign fighters, including numbers in the low hundreds from this country and thousands from Express Purchase—This is being launched today and elsewhere. is for those people living closest to the line, in what is known as the “surface safeguarded” area. Under this 2013 saw two terrorist murders, the first in Great scheme owner-occupiers may be able to sell their home Britain since 2005. There were also attempted terrorist to the Government, if they wish to do so at its full attacks against mosques in the west midlands and unblighted market value (as it would be if HS2 did not 13 British nationals were killed in terrorist attacks by exist), plus 10% (up to £47,000) and reasonable moving al-Qaeda linked groups overseas, the highest number expenses, including stamp duty. since 2005. Voluntary Purchase—For people in rural areas outside Significant resources and capabilities have been put the safeguarding area and up to 120 metres away from in place to deal with the threat. The number of successful the line. Owner-occupiers in this area may be able to sell prosecutions and plots foiled over the past year their home to the Government for its full unblighted demonstrates the skill and professionalism of the police value at any time up until a year after the line opens. We and security and intelligence agencies, as well as the intend for this to be launched later this year. strength of the systems and structures developed for our counter-terrorist work over many years. In the Need to sell—This scheme does not have a boundary 12 months to September 2013, there were 257 terrorism- and is available to owner-occupiers who have a compelling related arrests in Great Britain; 48 people were charged reason (including job relocation, ill health) to sell their with terrorism offences and 73 with other offences. house but are unable to do so because of HS2. The These figures are comparable to any other 12-month Government would pay the full, unblighted value for period since 2001. these properties. We also intend to launch this later this year, when it will replace the exceptional hardship scheme The wide range of activity under Contest is appropriate which will continue to operate in the meantime. for the threats we face and the strategy has been proven over many years. But aspects of our strategy have to All three options will be accompanied by a rent back evolve to respond to changing threats. During 2013 the option. This is for owner-occupiers who, having sold Government have continued to provide the police and their property to Government, would prefer to carry on security and intelligence agencies with the powers and living there and may be able to rent it back, subject to capabilities they need to do their job. These powers are property suitability checks. This will also be implemented necessary, proportionate and subject to close oversight immediately. and scrutiny. We have a sustained cross-Government These compensation arrangements incorporate a range effort to deal with the new and wider range of terrorist of improvements to our original proposals, taking account threats we now face overseas. We have increased the of points made by members of the public, property pace and range of our prevent work. We are making our experts and others during the consultation. For example, border and our aviation sector even more secure. And I have decided that the “need to sell” scheme, as the we are reshaping our emergency response to deal with name suggests, will require applicants only to show they new terrorist methods and techniques. have a compelling need to sell, rather than demonstrating The UK’s counter-terrorism response is widely regarded that they would suffer hardship if they could not sell. as among the most effective in the world. We will In recognition of the exceptional nature of HS2, we continue to do everything we can to stay ahead of the are also considering going further than providing threat and to protect the public. compensation and will undertake a further limited consultation on the following proposals: As an alternative to the voluntary purchase offer, we are proposing a cash payment of between £30,000 to TRANSPORT £100,000—for owner-occupiers in rural areas outside the safeguarding area and up to 120 metres away from the line who do not want to sell their home and move. HS2 (Property Compensation) Home owner payment—This is proposed to apply to owner-occupiers between 120 metres and 300 metres from the route in rural areas. This could enable people The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick in these areas to share in the benefits of HS2, which will McLoughlin): I am today announcing to the House the run near them but will not provide them with a direct outcome of the 2013 consultation on property benefit. The details of (amounts and eligibility) any compensation for the London to west midlands HS2 payments would need to be determined following route (phase 1). consultation. 21WS Written Statements9 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 22WS

Initial thinking is that payments could be from £7,500 WORK AND PENSIONS to £22,500 depending on how near the route the property is located. This would come into effect following parliamentary approval of the HS2 route between London Office for Nuclear Regulation and the west midlands. These decisions and the forthcoming consultation do The Minister of State, Department for Work and not apply to other proposed HS2 route sections. I Pensions (Mike Penning): Following my announcement intend to bring forward further proposals for supporting on 1 April 2014 of the launch of the Office for Nuclear property owners alongside future decisions on extensions Regulation (ONR) as an independent public corporation, to the HS2 route. I will place a copy of the ONR annual plan for 2014-15 In addition to these proposals, we need to ensure in the House Library. The annual plan has also been residents’ views have an effective way of being heard. published on the ONR website at: http://www.onr.org.uk/ HS2 Ltd will develop a residents’ charter, designed to documents/2014/onr-annual-plan-14-15.pdf. help residents know their rights and will appoint an I can confirm, in accordance with schedule 7, independent residents’ commissioner who will ensure section 25(3) of the Energy Act 2013, that there have that they adhere to the commitments made in the been no exclusions to the published document on the charter. The charter and commissioner will provide grounds of national security. residents with a voice and representation. I will place a copy of the ONR/DWP framework Together, the charter and the commissioner will ensure document, which sets out the sponsorship arrangements that residents are informed of any developments fairly between the Department and the ONR, in the House and efficiently. The charter will contain a number of Library. It is also available on the ONR website at: principles against which HS2 Ltd will be measured in http://www.onr.org.uk/documents/2014/onr-dwp- their communications with people affected by the framework.pdf. development of the railway. I have decided not to introduce a “property bond” Single-tier Pension (Contingencies Fund Advance) which was one of the proposals that was consulted on in 2013. I appreciate that this will disappoint many who were advocating such an approach. We studied the idea The Minister of State, Department for Work and very carefully but felt that it was untried, would not Pensions (Steve Webb): The Department for Work and facilitate the smooth operation of a normal property Pensions has obtained approval for a further advance market and would add to uncertainty rather than from the Contingencies Fund of £549,000 for the continued reduce it. development of IT for the single-tier pension before Royal Assent. This advance is necessitated by the lead-in I believe these proposals represent the best possible time for delivery in April 2016 which requires IT work balance between properly compensating people affected to be undertaken prior to Royal Assent of the Pensions by the line and providing value for money for the Bill. taxpayer. The voluntary purchase offer and the need to Parliamentary approval for additional resource of sell scheme are intended to be launched later this year, £549,000 for this new service has been sought in the following the further consultation which I aim to commence main supply estimate 2014-15 for the Department for shortly and intend to conclude before the end of the Work and Pensions. Pending that approval, urgent year. expenditure estimated at £549,000 will be met by repayable A full description of these proposals is in today’s cash advances from the Contingencies Fund. The repayment Command Paper, “Property Compensation Consultation is expected to be made in the financial year 2014-15. 2013 for the London-West Midlands HS2 route: Decision This advance will allow the single-tier programme to Document”. I have published this report on: www.gov.uk continue to work to meet the timetable of April 2016 and provided copies to the Libraries of both Houses. to implement the single-tier new service. 5P Petitions9 APRIL 2014 Petitions 6P

Proposed Closure of Mallins Doctors Surgery (West Petitions Bromwich) The Petition of residents of the UK, Wednesday 9 April 2014 Declares that the Petitioners along with the Wednesbury Labour team deplore the decision made by NHS England to close Mallins doctors surgery at High Bullen Wednesbury without the required consultation with patients, staff, OBSERVATIONS local councillors and the local authority; further that the Petitioners believe that NHS England have failed to give the required 90 days’ notice to patients; and further that the Petitioners believe that NHS England failed to HEALTH consult the council under section 7 of the Health and Social Care Act, as amended by the Health and Social Care Act 2012. Heanor Memorial Hospital (Derbyshire) The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to encourage NHS The Petition of the people of Heanor and the wider England to review the decision to close Mallins doctors Amber Valley area, surgery and require NHS England to undertake the Declares that the Heanor Memorial Hospital provides required consultation with patients, staff and the local essential services to the community of Heanor, and that council, among others. the Southern Derbyshire Clinical Commissioning Group And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by should allocate sufficient resources to ensure that the Mr Adrian Bailey, Official Report, 26 March 2014; hospital is once again able to open and serve the people Vol. 578, c. 1P .] of Heanor. [P001339] The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Observations from the Secretary of State for Health: Commons urges the Government to take all possible NHS England is responsible for commissioning and steps to ensure that Heanor Memorial Hospital remains ensuring adequate provision of GP services. It would open and that health provision in Heanor is enhanced not be appropriate for the Department of Health or not diminished. Ministers to intervene in this matter. And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Nigel Malling Health GP practice is housed on land owned Mills, Official Report, 11 March 2014; Vol. 577, c. 290 .] by the Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council, and the sub-lease is due to expire on 30 April 2014. The [P001331] Council has stated that there is no option to extend the Observations from the Secretary of State for the Home lease. Department: The contract with Malling Health was put in place to The commissioning and provision of hospital services, provide primary medical services for at least 6,000 people. including those that might be provided at Heanor Memorial The patient list size is currently 1,690. Hospital, is a matter for the national health service A Feasibility and Options Appraisal was undertaken locally. by NHS Property Services, which detailed costs of Heanor Memorial Hospital has been closed since a potential relocation of the practice to other premises. routine maintenance survey discovered asbestos in the NHS England advises that the costs associated with boiler room. A subsequent full structural survey in relocation were very high and not financially viable. October 2013 revealed the presence of asbestos in other NHS England is confident there is sufficient GP parts of the hospital. Southern Derbyshire Clinical capacity within a one mile radius of the Malling Health Commissioning Group is currently exploring options GP practice for the patients affected. The practice is for the future of health services in Heanor. The local therefore to close on 11 April 2014 following agreement CCG is committed to consulting and engaging local with the provider. The Area Team is committed to people throughout this process. I would encourage the ensuring that patients have continued access to local, honourable member and his constituents to remain high quality GP services and will work to minimise engaged with the CCG on this matter. disruption for patients as a result of the closure.

231W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 232W Written Answers to High Speed 2 Railway Line Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Questions which High Speed 2 station designs will include international arrivals and departures. [195332]

Wednesday 9 April 2014 Mr Goodwill: The proposals in the High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill currently enable the provision of international facilities at the Curzon Street, Birmingham Interchange and West London (Old Oak TRANSPORT Common) stations. Cycling: Greater London Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what anticipated construction costs of building High Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Speed 2 are for each year of its construction. how many (a) fatal and (b) serious injuries were suffered [195333] by cyclists in London in each of the last 10 years. [195151] Mr Goodwill: The annual breakdown of the costs of HS2 up to the financial year 2020-21 is published in Mr Goodwill: The number of reported (a) killed and ‘Investing in Britain’s Future’, published in June 2013 at (b) seriously injured cyclists in London in each of the the time of Spending Round 2013. The precise details of last 10 years is given in the table below: future profiles for the period beyond 2020-21 will be set Number of killed and seriously injured cyclists in London: 2003-12 at future Spending Reviews. Number of casualties: (a) Killed (b) Serious Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport 2003 19 419 on what date all properties in each local authority area 2004 8 332 affected by Phase 1 and Phase 2 of High Speed 2 or 2005 21 351 situated above the proposed tunnelled sections of High 2006 19 373 Speed 2 were purchased (a) under the HS2 Exceptional Hardship Scheme and (b) by compulsory purchase; 2007 15 446 and what was paid for each such property. [195389] 2008 15 430 2009 13 420 Mr Goodwill: No properties have been acquired through 2010 10 458 compulsory purchase. Properties acquired under the 2011 16 555 Exceptional Hardship Schemes for Phase One and Phase 2012 14 659 Two are listed in the tables, which have been placed in Data for the year 2013 will be available in June 2014. the Libraries of the House.

Fuels: Prices Nurseries

Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment his Department has made Transport pursuant to the answer of 24 March 2014, of whether there is a correlation between the price of Official Report, column 4W on nurseries, whether his (a) petrol and (b) diesel and the levels of traffic Department’s workplace nurseries access the Government’s accidents and car journeys in the UK. [195182] tax relief scheme for workplace nurseries. [195241] Mr Goodwill: The Department’s modelling and appraisal guidance contains values to be used by transport modellers Stephen Hammond: The Department’s childcare vouchers for realism testing for models (WebTAG unit M2: schemes are fully compliant with the Governments tax https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ relief schemes as set out under Section 318 ITEPA attachment_data/file/275597/webtag-tag-unit-m2-variable- 2003. Of the two nursery provision areas in Hastings demand-modelling.pdf and Swansea, the latter is run by a “third party” see paragraph 6.4.14). The guidance on fuel cost elasticity organisation, therefore, it is not for the Department to is set at a decrease of 0.3% in traffic for a 1% increase in comment if they has access to the Government’s tax fuel cost. This value is based on a number of independent relief scheme. studies of transport demand. This is the value used in the National Transport Model and published in Road Transport Forecasts 2013: Parking: Pedestrian Areas https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/road-transport- forecasts-2013 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State (see paragraphs 1.34 and 1.35 on page 14). This refers to for Transport (1) if his Department will take steps to fuel cost generally, the Department does not have estimates prevent unnecessary pavement parking; [195401] for petrol and diesel separately. (2) if his Department will commission an assessment The Department does not have quantified estimates of the dangers and problems of vehicles parked on of the relationship between fuel cost and accidents. pavements. [195400] 233W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 234W

Mr Goodwill: The Department has no plans to Reported personal injury road accidents in London, 2003-12 commission a report into pavement parking. Accidents In London there is a general ban on parking on the 2003 31,844 footway.In the rest of England there is no such prohibition 2004 28,778 but local authorities outside London have wide-ranging 2005 26,812 powers to make Traffic Regulation Orders to prohibit 2006 24,829 pavement parking on designated lengths of highway or 2007 23,265 over a wide area. 2008 23,160 2009 23,279 Railways: Brighton 2010 24,145 2011 24,468 Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport 2012 24,097 what steps he is taking to improve rail services in the Brighton travel to work area; and if he will make a Data for year 2013 will be available in June 2014. statement. [195368] Roads: Accidents Stephen Hammond: The new TSGN franchise, as well as using the new rolling stock which will be phased into service from 2016, will require the franchisee to meet Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for ambitious targets to improve punctuality and reliability Transport what change there has been in the level of performance, service quality and passenger satisfaction. accidents attributable to congestion in each of the last We have also made clear to bidders that they can receive 10 years. [195246] extra evaluation credit for submitting proposals that exceed our specified train service and quality requirements. Mr Goodwill: The information requested is not collected by the Department. Road Traffic: Greater London Rolling Stock: North East Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment he has made of trends in the levels of Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for (a) congestion and (b) traffic accidents in London in Transport what the average age of rolling stock serving each of the last 10 years. [195180] the (a) Tees Valley Line and (b) Esk Valley Line is. [194914] Mr Goodwill: Road congestion is measured in the Department by average morning peak speeds. Estimates Stephen Hammond: The rolling stock operated on of average weekday morning peak speeds, on locally these two lines is a mixture of Class 142 and Class 156 managed ‘A’ roads in London between 2007 and 2013 units which were constructed between 1985 and 1989. are presented in the table below. The first calendar year However, the age of rolling stock is a crude measure in this series is 2007 and earlier years are not available. of quality—as a properly planned refurbishment of an Over the last 6 years, average morning peak speeds in older train can result in a very pleasant travelling London rose by 3.8% between 2007 and 2009, remained environment and a “new train feel” but at a fraction of relatively stable until 2011, before falling by 2.7% between the cost of a new unit. 2011 and 2013. Information on the average age of rolling stock is Average weekday morning peak speeds on locally available from the Office of Rail Regulation’s website, managed ‘A’ roads in London by following this link: Average morning peak speeds in London1,2 http://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/report/html/ 53dcc4e1-3223-48f9-9e9c-10d51359cdd7 2007 15.9 2008 16.1 2009 16.5 2010 16.4 DEFENCE 2011 16.5 2012 16.3 2013 16.1 Afghanistan 1 Morning peak defined as 7am to 10am. School holiday periods and the month of August are excluded 2 Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Average speeds are measured in both directions of the road network whether his Department has had any discussions with Equivalent estimates for individual London boroughs the government of Afghanistan concerning future basing can be found on the Department for Transport’s website of UK unmanned aircraft systems in that country after at: 2014. [R] [194985] https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/279125/cgn0206.xls Mr Francois: To date, there have been no discussions The number of reported personal injury road accidents with the Government of Afghanistan about the future of all severities in London in the last 10 years can be basing of UK unmanned aircraft systems in Afghanistan found in the table below: after 2014. 235W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 236W

Aircraft Carriers evidence of bat activity across Ashchurch. However, one building had a small bat roost and there was a Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for possibility of a bat roost in a second building. Defence which companies have been awarded sub- contracts for construction of HMS Queen Elizabeth War Graves: Padstow and HMS Prince of Wales since June 2013; at which sites he expects work under each such contracts to be Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for carried out; and what the monetary value is of each Defence if he will take steps to ensure that anonymous such contract. [195136] military graves at Padstow Cemetery are updated in situations where the identity of the former soldier has Mr Dunne: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I been discovered. [195217] gave on 6 June 2013 (Official Report, column 1279W). Anna Soubry: A claim as to the identity of an individual Armed Forces: Complaints buried in Padstow Cemetery in a grave bearing a headstone with the inscription “A Royal Marine of the Great Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence War”, is currently awaiting review by officials in the pursuant to the Answer of 27 March 2014, Official Joint Casualty & Compassionate Centre. If the claim is Report, column 315W, on armed forces: complaints, supported by clear and convincing evidence they will how many mid-year annual reports were not completed task the Commonwealth War Graves Commission to in each of the last five years; and if he will make a replace the headstone with a new memorial bearing the statement. [194669] individual’s name.

Anna Soubry: Information on the completion of mid-year reviews for regular Service personnel is not collected directly and is therefore not held. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Armed Forces: Pensions Council Tax: Floods Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) what recent discussions his Department Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for has had with the Scottish Government on the payment Communities and Local Government how many local of armed forces pensions in the event of Scottish authorities affected by the recent floods are offering independence; [194964] council tax discounts to flooded-out householders under (2) what inflation adjustment measures are applied section 13A of the Local Government Finance Act to the pensions paid to armed forces pensioners resident 1992. [194492] outside the UK. [194963] Brandon Lewis [holding answer 3 April 2014]: The Anna Soubry: Armed Forces pensions are currently Prime Minister announced on 19 February 2014 that uprated annually in April using the Consumer Price Government will reimburse local authorities for providing Index (CPI) figure from the previous September. These council tax discounts for flooded homes. 48 local authorities are occupational pensions and are therefore paid, including have reported that they had already offered discounts any CPI increase, to scheme members wherever they by 17 March, with a further 63 planning to do so in reside in the world. using their discretionary powers under section 13A of The UK Government is confident that the people of the Local Government Finance Act 1992. It is for local Scotland will continue to support remaining within the authorities to determine whether they wish to take up UK. There have, therefore, been no discussions with the the Government’s offer of funding, depending on the Scottish Government about this matter. precise scale and extent of local flooding.

DSG Ashchurch Council Tax: Lancaster

Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for whether (a) abat,(b) a dormouse, (c) a crested newt Communities and Local Government what reports he and (d) an owl survey has been carried out at Defence has received of levels of council tax set by Lancaster Infrastructure Organisation site Ashchurch; what the district council for 2014-15. [194560] result of each such survey was; and if he will make a statement. [195131] Brandon Lewis [holding answer 3 April 2014]: I refer Dr Murrison: A baseline ecological survey was my hon. Friend to my answer of 7 April 2014, Official undertaken at Ashchurch in 2008 and updated in 2012. Report, column 66W. Following this survey no detailed assessments were undertaken for owls, as there have been no sightings or Families: Disadvantaged evidence of protected birds, or dormice, due to no suitable habitat being identified. Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Further detailed studies have been carried out for Communities and Local Government how self-reported both crested newts and bats. Results of these surveys data from local authorities on the Troubled Families showed there was no evidence of crested newts and little programme is audited. [194861] 237W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 238W

Kris Hopkins: All results are approved within each £83 million of unused capitalisation provision has local authority’s internal audit arrangements and under been returned to all councils in England. This can be the statutory authority of the chief executive. My used as councils see fit. In line with the published Department then undertakes a verification process on a capitalisation policy and procedures for 2013-14, the sample of claims made. unused capitalisation provision has been distributed to all authorities in accordance with their share of the 2013-14 Start Up Funding Assessment. Local Government Finance Full lists of local authorities’ allocations for each of these elements are set out in tables that have been Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for deposited in the Library of the House. Communities and Local Government how the £320 million Transformation Challenge Award for 2014-15 and 2015-16 Local Government: Publicity will be funded; and whether it will be top-sliced from existing grants. [195339] Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to which local Brandon Lewis: The £320 million Transformation authorities he has written about their compliance with Challenge Award for 2014-15 and 2015-16 will be funded the Publicity Code asking them to take steps to ensure from the £100 million collaboration and efficiency fund complete compliance with that code; and whether each announced at the spending round 2013, the £200 million of these letters was copied to the leader of the capital receipt flexibility allowed to local authorities opposition of the local authority. [194880] following the sate of assets, and £20 million from the Department’s own resources. No funding will be top-sliced Brandon Lewis [holding answer 7 April 2014]: On 25 from any existing grants. March, departmental officials wrote to the chief executives of every principal local authority in England, advising Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for how the Secretary of State is minded to exercise his Communities and Local Government when he plans for powers to direct compliance with the Code of the service Transformation Panel to (a) form, (b) Recommended Practice on local Authority Publicity. invite bids, (c) announce bid deadlines and (d) consider On the same day, I wrote individually to the Leaders of bids. [195340] the royal borough of Greenwich, London borough of Hackney, Newham council, Nottingham city council, Brandon Lewis: On 2 April 2014, the Chief Secretary Tower Hamlets council and the London borough of to the Treasury, the right hon. Member for Inverness, Waltham Forest. Without prejudicing any formal Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Danny Alexander), consideration by the Secretary of State, I observed that and the Secretary of State for Communities and Local there were suggestions that those councils in particular Government, my right hon. Friend the Member for might not be complying with the Code of Recommended Brentwood and Ongar (Mr Pickles), announced the Practice on Local Authority Publicity. I suggested that Service Transformation Panel. A full list of panel members prior to the Secretary of State’s new powers for directing will be published shortly. compliance with the code on publicity coming on-stream at the end of March, they take steps to ensure that their The panel will gather evidence of the opportunities council is in complete compliance with the provisions of and barriers of integrating local public services in order the code. Those letters were copied where applicable to to make recommendations advising what needs to happen the leaders of the opposition in those authorities. locally and nationally to increase the pace and scale of integration between local public services. There is no bid process as part of the panel’s work. New Towns: Ebbsfleet

Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Roberta Blackman-Woods: To ask the Secretary of Communities and Local Government pursuant to his State for Communities and Local Government what written statement of 2 April 2014, Official Report, proportion of the development announced in Budget column 81WS on Improving Public Services, 2014 at Ebbsfleet will consist of affordable homes. how much each local authority will receive from the [193427] £90 million funding made available to all councils so they can start investing to save; and how the allocation Nick Boles: The Government does not impose a of such funding will be calculated. [195393] particular level of affordable housing for housing schemes. The percentage of affordable units will be a matter for Brandon Lewis: The £90 million funding which has local decision making taking account of the local authorities been made available immediately for local authorities to local plans and site viability. Unrealistic Section 106 start investing to save is made up of three different agreements result in no development, no regeneration elements: and no community benefits. £1 million for nine local authorities working with the Public Service Transformation Network to speed up Official Hospitality and scale up their transformation plans; and £6 million for 13 local authorities that narrowly missed out on Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for funding in the 2013-14 Transformation Challenge Award Communities and Local Government what his bidding process. The allocations for these funds were Department’s (a) catering and (b) hospitality budget published on 3 April. was in (i) 2012 and (ii) 2013. [194474] 239W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 240W

Brandon Lewis: My Department has no separate budget May 2010 to March 2014 Number for catering and hospitality in 2012 and 2013. To assist the right hon. Member, I would note that Compulsory Redundancy 8 this Government has dramatically cut spending compared Voluntary Severance or 522 to the last Labour Government and put in place far Redundancy tighter rules and restrictions on spending: Total 530 The Department spent £553,230 on catering and hospitality in None of these staff (i) received special severance 2008-09, and £456,142 in 2009-10. payments or (ii) were subject to compromise agreements. By 2012-13, spending had been reduced to £58,882 (plus £16,727 of delayed billing from the year before). Exit figures through 2010-12 reflect the completion We anticipate spending in the region of £36,000 in the year of the Department’s major restructuring programme. 2013-14 (the precise figure will be audited at financial year Our departmental audited annual accounts for the core end). Department show that total staff costs fell from £216 The expenditure undertaken is essentially for light million in 2009-10 to £99 million in 2012-13, a reduction refreshments for a large number of small official events of 54% in cash terms, or a saving of £117 million a year. such as: The number of staff has been reduced from 3,781 European Regional Development Fund events (meetings with full-time equivalent in 2009-10 to 1,681 in 2012-13, a external visitors and Local Management Committee meetings); reduction of 56%. Conferences and workshops with representatives of local Rents government, housing, planning and local communities; Public roadshows and Portas Pilot events; John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for All-day recruitment assessment centres, training and induction Communities and Local Government if he will place in courses. the Library the model and detailed methodology used We do not routinely incur any expenditure on for the forecast of the effects of affordable rent on refreshments for Ministers other than “de minimis” housing benefit expenditure published by his Department expenditure on tea and coffee for Ministers’ meetings in the document, Impact Assessment for Affordable with external visitors, or on the rare occasion when Rent, in June 2011. [195300] Ministers undertake overnight stays on official business outside London. Kris Hopkins: The Affordable Rent Impact Assessment, Our departmental savings has also been assisted by published in June 2011, sets out the methodology and terminating ministerial group spending on Government assumptions used at the time to model the expected Procurement Cards, as practiced by the Labour impact of affordable rent on housing benefit expenditure. Government at taxpayers’ expense at the likes of Sky The impact assessment is published here: City Casino, the Cinnamon Club, the Wolseley, Brasserie https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ 44, Boisdales, Inn the Park, Mango Tree, Shepherds, attachment_data/file/6021/1918816.pdf Incognico, Buffalo Bar, Mr Chu’s China Palace, Tantric Wind Power Jazz and Fat Tuesdays. We have showed that there is considerable scope for Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for the public sector to generate significant savings in this Communities and Local Government pursuant to the area, as evident from the ongoing saving of up to half a answer of 31 March, Official Report, column 439W, on million pounds a year. wind power, what recent assessment he has made of the To place our savings in context, as noted in the effect of the use of recoveries in the planning system answer of 8 April 2014, Official Report, House of with regards to onshore wind developments on (a) Lords, column 270WA, when the right hon. Member investment in onshore wind, (b) energy bills, (c) was Secretary of State, he spent £444,891 on catering, competition in the market, (d) community benefit and hospitality and refreshments in 2008-09 and £552,367 (e) onshore wind supply chain and jobs. [195388] in 2009-10. I know that the right hon. Member has a particular Kris Hopkins: This type of assessment has not been interest in biscuits, so to help quantify this amount, his carried out by this Department. Planning is a quasi-judicial spending in his last year in office is equivalent today to process and decisions on planning proposals should be buying 720,479 packets of Jammie Dodgers from Waitrose made in accordance with planning law. This requires (albeit, with a free cup of coffee thrown in). that applications for planning permission must be determined in accordance with the development plan Redundancy unless material considerations indicate otherwise. I refer the hon. Member to the written statement of 10 October Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for 2013, Official Report, columns 30-31WS, which explains Communities and Local Government how many staff why we are giving particular scrutiny to planning appeals have (a) taken voluntary redundancy or (b) been made involving renewable energy developments. compulsorily redundant from his Department since May 2010; and how many of these (i) received special severance payments or (ii) were subject to compromise agreements. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE [194883] Coal: Imports Brandon Lewis [holding answer 7 April 2014]: The number of staff that left the Department on (a) voluntary Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for redundancy and (b) compulsory redundancy terms Energy and Climate Change what proportion of UK from May 2010 to March 2014 is set out as follows. coal-generating capacity was provided by imports from 241W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 242W each country in the most recent period for which figures Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy are available. [195259] and Climate Change if he will make an assessment of the effects of a cap on the construction and capacity of Michael Fallon: Figures on coal imports used for onshore wind developments on (a) consumer bills, (b) generation are not available by country. investment in onshore wind, (c) competition in the market, (d) community benefit and (e) onshore wind However, in 2012, 39,619 thousand tonnes of steam supply chain and jobs. [195381] coal (mainly used by coal-fired stations) were imported into the UK, representing 72% of coal used for electricity Gregory Barker: There is no cap on current deployment generation (54,906 thousand tonnes). of onshore wind (or any other renewable energy Imports of steam coal in 2012 were: technology). It is the role of the planning system to ensure that wind farms are only built where the impacts Country Tonnage (thousand tonnes) are, or can be made, acceptable. Russia 17,459 Onshore wind is one of the cheapest forms of large-scale Colombia 11,749 renewable energy-supporting onshore wind in 2013 added United States of America 8,858 around £9 per year to the average UK energy bill. Since European Union1 583 2010 DECC has recorded announced investments by Republic of South Africa 546 developers in onshore wind totalling around £4.6 billion, with the potential to support over 7,700 jobs; and, Canada 153 around the UK, onshore wind developments are providing Other Countries 272 community funds and other benefits to local people, Total all countries 39,619 such as money off electricity bills. 1 European Union includes non-EU routed through the Netherlands. Source: DUKES table 2.1, available at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/solid-fuels-and- derived-gases-chapter-2-digest-of-united-kingdom-energy-statistics- NORTHERN IRELAND dukes Statistics for 2013 will be available in DUKES 2014, which is published Cross Border Co-operation: Republic of Ireland on 31 July 2014. Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern UK Coal Ireland what recent assessment she has made of the level of co-operation between the security forces in Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. [194857] Energy and Climate Change pursuant to his Answer to the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West of Mrs Villiers: There continues to be very close contact 3 April 2014, on what dates and with which representative between the PSNI and An Garda Siochana to tackle the of the European Commission he spoke about the future threat faced from dissident republican activity on both of UK Coal. [195243] sides of the border. Every opportunity will be taken to consider ways to improve cross border working relationships Michael Fallon: Ministers and officials in the Department and deepen the collective understanding of the threat, regularly meet with officials from the European building on the excellent co-operation that exists. Commission.

Wind Power JUSTICE Aspire to Change Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what recent discussions he has had Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice with the (a) Prime Minister, (b) Chancellor of the (1) what (a) advice and (b) written guidance (i) he, (ii) Exchequer and (c) Secretary of State for Communities Ministers and (iii) officials in his Department have and Local Government on the imposition of a cap on given to Aspire to Change (A2C) since December 2013; the construction and capacity of onshore wind and if he will make a statement; [194432] developments. [195221] (2) how much has been paid by his Department to Aspire to Change (A2C) since its formation; for what Michael Fallon: DECC Ministers meet regularly with purpose each payment was made; what assessment he other Ministers to discuss a range of issues. has made of the value for money of such expenditure; and if he will make a statement; [194433] Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy (3) what (a) discussions with and (b) representations and Climate Change what recent discussions he has from Aspire to Change (A2C) (i) he, (ii) Ministers and had with the Secretary of State for Communities and (iii) officials in his Department have had since December Local Government on (a) delays and (b) the use of 2013; and if he will make a statement. [194440] recoveries in the planning system for onshore wind developments. [195222] Jeremy Wright: Under Transforming Rehabilitation, we are opening up the market to a diverse range of new Michael Fallon: DECC Ministers meet regularly with rehabilitation providers, so that we get the best out of other Ministers to discuss a range of issues. the public, voluntary and private sectors, at the local as 243W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 244W well as national level. Managers in a number of Probation Below is a link to the ‘Getting it right for victims and Trusts, including Essex, have set up mutuals so that they witnesses’ Consultation Paper and the Government’s can bid to become owners of the new Community Response. Rehabilitation Companies (CRCs). In line with wider https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/victims- Government policy, we have encouraged those Trusts witnesses that have been interested to consider the mutual option. All those developing mutuals have had the opportunity Criminal Injuries Compensation to bid for further advice, guidance and assistance through the Cabinet Office Mutual Support programme (MSP). Mr Nuttall: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The MSP has allocated a total of £1.5million to support how many new cases were allocated by the Criminal prospective mutuals with the greatest potential. Support Injuries Compensation Authority to be dealt with by to organisations has been provided in two phases. Phase 1 each of their regional teams in each of the last three supported organisations to prepare them for the years. [194426] competition. Phase 2 is providing further support to those that passed the first stage of the competition Damian Green: The Criminal Injuries Compensation throughout the negotiation phase and, if they are successful Authority (OCA) divides its case work between six in the competition, support their transition to a mutual. teams, each of which handles applications from a particular We launched the competition to establish the owners region of Great Britain. All of these teams work from a of the 21 CRCs on 19 September 2013. Competition single office. Northern Ireland has a separate Criminal rules preclude this Department from contacting potential Injuries Compensation scheme, which CICA does not bidders other than through the competition process so administer. CICA publishes the total number of cases it that is, and will remain the only avenue for Aspire 2 receives each year in its annual reports but these are not Change Ltd. To communicate with the Department broken down by team. until the competition is completed. The six regional teams are numbered as follows: Crime: Farms 1. Scotland and Wales 2. North-West England Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for 3. North-East England Justice what prosecutions there have been for (a) sheep 4. Midlands rustling and (b) other crimes on farms in each of the 5. South England last three years. [194596] 6. London The following table sets out how many cases each Damian Green: The Ministry of Justice Court region received in each of the last three reporting years. Proceedings Database holds information on defendants The sum of cases allocated to each region will differ proceeded against, found guilty and sentenced for criminal from the total received by CICA each year because offences in England and Wales. This database holds some clearly ineligible cases are refused before they are information on offences provided by the statutes under sent to a regional team to investigate. which proceedings are brought but not the specific circumstances of each case. It is not possible to separately Number of cases identify from this centrally held information offences of Region Region Region Region Region Region sheep rustling from other offences of theft. Nor is it 1 2 3 4 5 6 possible to separately identify which offences occurred 2010-11 9,276 10,805 10,167 9,601 10,619 8,213 on a farm. This information may be held on the individual 2011-12 8,897 10,294 9,357 9,450 10,749 8,129 court files, which can be checked only at disproportionate 2012-13 7,155 8,058 7,578 7,833 8,976 6,196 cost. Crimes of Violence Fraud: Social Security Benefits

Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Justice what consultation his Department undertook (1) how many and what proportion of (a) men and (b) before excluding damage sustained in utero as a result women convicted of benefit fraud in each of the last of illegal drug taking from the definition of a crime of five years received a prison sentence; and what the violence under Annex B paragraph 4(e) of the Criminal average prison sentence was for those of each gender so Compensation Scheme; and if he will make a convicted; [191465] statement. [194338] (2) how many (a) men and (b) women convicted of benefit fraud in each of the last five years received (i) a Damian Green: I sympathise deeply with anyone who conditional discharge, (ii) a fine, (iii) a community suffers from an injury or debilitating condition sustained order and (iv) a suspended prison sentence. [191466] in utero. As part of the ‘Getting it right for victims and witnesses’ consultation, which was published in January Jeremy Wright: The Department for Work and Pensions 2012, we looked in detail at the definition of a “crime of operates a tough series of specific penalties for benefit violence” for the purposes of the Criminal Injuries fraud that run alongside the criminal justice system. Compensation Scheme (CICS). After the consultation, The Welfare Reform Act 2012 toughened penalties for a decision was taken to exclude injuries sustained by an those who commit, or attempt to commit benefit fraud. unborn child if the mother willingly consumes harmful We have introduced a financial administrative penalty substances during pregnancy. We implemented a new as an alternative to prosecution which, for the first time, Scheme in November 2012. can be applied to attempted fraud. 245W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 246W

The Government has also introduced a tougher loss The number of defendants proceeded against at of benefit penalty to restrict benefits to people convicted magistrates court found guilty and sentenced at all of benefit fraud or who have accepted an administrative courts for offences relating to benefit fraud, with sentencing penalty. Benefits can be reduced for periods of 13 weeks, outcomes and the average custodial sentence length by 26 weeks or three years, dependent on the number of gender, in England and Wales, from 2008 to 2012 (latest benefit fraud offences committed within a specified data available) can be viewed in the table. period, where the latest offence results in a conviction. Please note that court proceedings statistics for the Judges make their decisions independently of year 2013 are planned to be published by the Ministry Government based on the facts of each case. The maximum of Justice in May 2014. penalty for fraud is 10 years in prison.

Defendants proceeded against at magistrates court found guilty and sentenced at all courts for offences relating to benefit fraud,1 with sentencing outcomes and the average custodial sentence length, by gender, England and Wales, 2008-122, 3 Results Proceeded Absolute Conditional Sex Year against Found guilty4 Sentenced5 discharge discharge Fine

Male 2008 4,393 3,571 3,572 21 850 736 2009 3,337 2,831 2,855 5 499 602 2010 3,036 2,603 2,624 4 394 574 2011 2,911 2,531 2,556 — 385 479 2012 3,850 3,303 3,341 10 570 726

Female 2008 4,996 4,199 4,231 14 1,305 578 2009 4,127 3,511 3,544 7 845 532 2010 3,692 3,209 3,263 7 618 483 2011 3,447 2,959 3,014 4 505 418 2012 4,440 3,798 3,847 5 877 625

Results Average custodial Community Suspended Immediate Otherwise dealt sentence length Sex Year sentence sentence custody with (months)6

Male 2008 1,363 358 172 69 7.85 2009 1,137 413 179 20 8.69 2010 1,130 405 106 11 8.99 2011 1,043 473 163 13 8.24 2012 1,435 446 135 19 6.76

Female 2008 1,629 541 90 73 7.25 2009 1,438 588 121 13 7.82 2010 1,377 667 102 9 7.72 2011 1,204 755 123 5 7.17 2012 1,512 703 115 10 5.99 ‘— = Nil. 1 Includes the following offences: Social Security Administration Act 1992 added by Social Security Administration (Fraud) Act 1997—Dishonest representation for obtaining benefits. Social Security Administration Act 1992—False representation. Contravention of regulations etc. Social Security Administration Act 1992 as amended by Social security Act 1998—Knowingly being concerned in fraudulent evasion of contributions. Social Security Administration Act 1992—Illegal possession of documents relating to benefits etc. 2 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 4 The number of defendants found guilty in a particular year may exceed the number proceeded against as the proceedings in the magistrates court took place in an earlier year and the defendants were found guilty at the Crown court in the following year; or the defendants were found guilty of a different offence to that for which they were originally proceeded against. 5 The number of offenders sentenced can differ from those found guilty as it may be the case that a defendant found guilty in a particular year, and committed for sentence at the Crown court, may be sentenced in the following year. 6 Excludes life and indeterminate sentences. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. 247W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 248W

Homicide Mr Vara: The net payments to these firms over the past three years are shown in the following table. Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) how many individuals convicted of (a) murder Public Interest Leigh Day and Co or (b) attempted murder in each of the last 10 years Lawyers (£) (£) have been released with exclusion zones forming a part 2010/11 439,268.02 1,182,080.21 of their licence arrangements; [191826] 2011/12 331,238.85 1,216,888.66 (2) on how many occasions an individual on licence 2012/13 54,387.48 569,730.45 for an attempted murder conviction has been granted permission to enter an exclusion zone which has been These payments cover all work undertaken by the formed as part of their licence arrangement in each of firms under legal aid. The payments made will be offset the last 10 years; [191781] by recoupment on successful cases where the opponent (3) how many times a convicted attempted murderer has paid the costs. released on licence has been allowed to enter an exclusion zone formed as part of their licence arrangement within one Magistrates Courts week of their release in each of the last 10 years. [191795] Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Jeremy Wright: Unfortunately, it is not possible to what the average length of a magistrates’ court proceeding answer these questions without carrying out a manual was in (a) all cases and (b) cases relating to the search through all relevant individual offender files, at non-payment of the television licence fee. [194436] disproportionate cost. Conditions such as an exclusion zone may be applied Damian Green: The majority of criminal cases in the to an offender’s licence where it is necessary to manage magistrates court are dealt with in a single day. Around the risk that the individual offender poses following two thirds of all cases are dealt with in a single hearing release into the community—and where it is proportionate with 90% of television licence evasion cases requiring to that risk. Where qualifying victims have exercised only one hearing. The Government has said that it will their statutory right to make representations about the examine whether television licence evasion should be offender’s licence conditions, the exclusion zone set will decriminalised. take into account those representations. In each case, the supervising officer proposes conditions as appropriate Oakwood Prison and requests these from the appropriate authority, which applies it to the licence on behalf of the Secretary of Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice State. In the case of determinate sentence prisoners, the what plans are in place to increase the operational authority is the prison governor; in the case of indeterminate capacity at HMP Oakwood. [194349] sentence prisoners, or others whose release is on the direction of the Parole Board, the authority is the Jeremy Wright: There are no plans to increase the Parole Board. operational capacity of HMP Oakwood. These conditions must be kept under review, and are intended to be flexible to the possible resettlement Prison Accommodation needs of an offender in the community and any new risks that arise. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice An exclusion zone will rarely be absolute, as it is (1) how much has been spent purchasing additional recognised that there may be exceptional reasons why prison places from existing privately run prisons in the offender needs to enter the exclusion zone. Thus, each month since May 2010; [194110] where an exclusion zone is included in the offender’s (2) from which companies additional spaces have licence, it will usually be open to the supervising officer been purchased in which prisons in each month since to grant the offender permission to enter the exclusion May 2010; [194109] zone, for a temporary period and for a specific purpose. (3) how many spaces were agreed under each contract As this is a purely localised decision, there is no with a private provider for additional spaces in existing national record of the number of occasions such permission prisons signed since May 2010; how long each contract has been given. It is, therefore, not possible to answer was for; and what the value was of the contract (a) in the questions regarding how many times an offender total and (b) per space agreed. [194310] has been granted permission to enter the exclusion zone applied to his licence. Jeremy Wright: A significant amount of this information Data from the last 10 years is not available in the is not held centrally, and we would need to interrogate a required electronic format to answer the question relating very large volume of separate files to obtain the information to numbers of offenders with exclusion zones included required and then review and collate that information. in their licence. To provide such information would By doing so we would incur disproportionate costs. again require a manual interrogation of offenders’ records and this would incur disproportionate cost. Prisoners Legal Aid Scheme Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for David Mowat: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many people in each prison establishment Justice how much in legal aid claims has been paid to are not being held in relation to criminal proceedings; Leigh Day and Public Interest Lawyers in each of the and what the reason is for their being so held in each last three years. [194326] case. [194405] 249W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 250W

Jeremy Wright: As of the 31 December 2013, Table 1: Non criminal prison population by establishment, England 1,230 people were being held in prisons in England and and Wales, 31 December 2013 Wales not in relation to criminal proceedings. Establishment Non criminal population Of these, 1,214 were being held as immigration detainees Holloway 23 and 16 were being held for civil offences (for example Holme House 9 non-payment of a debt, contempt of court, or breach of Hull 3 an injunction). Huntercombe 35 The agreement to hold time served foreign national Isis 5 offenders (Immigration Detainees) in prisons is set out Lancaster Farms 3 in a Service Level Agreement between NOMS and the Leeds 25 Home Office and is designed to support the Home Leicester 11 Office in achieving its objectives for removal. Lewes 7 Lincoln 23 Reducing the FNO population is a top priority for Lindholme 2 this Government. We are working hard to reduce the Littlehey 17 flow of FNOs into our prison system and increase the Liverpool 13 number of FNOs removed from the UK through Prisoner Long Lartin 2 Transfer Agreements (PTAs); the Early Removal Scheme (ERS) and Tariff Expired Removal Scheme (TERS). Low Newton 2 Maidstone 52 Table 1 below provides a breakdown of the population Manchester 10 who are not held in relation to criminal proceedings by Moorland/Hatfield 27 prison establishment. Mount 10 Table 1: Non criminal prison population by establishment, England New Hall 1 and Wales, 31 December 2013 Norwich 16 Establishment Non criminal population Nottingham 16 Oakwood 5 Altcourse 5 Pare 4 Ashfield 1 Pentonville 62 Aylesbury 2 Peterborough 18 Bedford 11 Portland 3 Belmarsh 12 Preston 3 Birmingham 30 Ranby 13 Brinsford 3 Risley 15 Bristol 6 Rochester 1 Brixton 15 Stafford 4 Bronzefield 6 Stoke Heath 6 Bullingdon 31 Styal 4 Bure 6 Swaleside (Sheppey cluster) 1 Cardiff 5 Swansea 1 Channings Wood 4 Swinfen Hall 1 Chelmsford 20 Thameside 56 Coldingley 4 Wakefield 2 Dartmoor 2 Wandsworth 195 Deerbolt 3 Wayland 4 Doncaster 18 Wealstun 1 Dovegate 3 Winchester 3 Drake Hall 3 Wolds 2 Durham 4 Woodhill 21 Eastwood Park 3 Wormwood Scrubs 84 Elmley (Sheppey cluster) 44 Wymott 4 Erlestoke 1 Total 1,230 Everthorpe 3 Data Sources and Quality: Exeter 3 These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems which, Featherstone 7 as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors Feltham 19 with data entry and processing. Forest Bank 18 Foston Hall 4 Prisoners: Repatriation Garth 1 GlenParva 13 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Guys Marsh 3 (1) what length of custodial sentence was given to each Haverigg 2 foreign national returned to their home country as part Hewell 24 of the EU Prisoner Transfer Agreement in each year High Down 31 since that agreement came into force; and how long Highpoint (North and South) 34 each had left to serve at the time of the repatriation; Hindley 1 [191086] 251W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 252W

(2) how many UK citizens have been returned to the Time left to UK from abroad to serve their custodial sentences serve in the under the EU Prisoner Transfer Agreement in each year United since that agreement came into force; of what offences Kingdom on the date of they were convicted; what length of custodial sentence Receiving Year of Sentence transfer they received; and how long they had left to serve in State Transfer Length Offence Type (days) custody at the time of their repatriation; [191087] The 2013 5 years, Drugs 638 (3) what crimes were committed by those foreign Netherlands 6 months nationals who have been returned from the UK to their The 2013 Indeterminate Sexual n/a home countries under the EU Prisoner Transfer Netherlands Sentence for Offences Public Agreement in each year since that agreement came into Protection force; [191092] The 2013 4 years, Drugs 355 (4) how many offenders have been returned from the Netherlands 8 months UK to each country under the EU Prisoner Transfer The 2013 7 years Drugs 705 Agreement in each year since that agreement came into Netherlands force. [191093] The 2014 4 years Drugs 388 Netherlands Jeremy Wright: The Council Framework Decision n/a = Not applicable. 2008/909/JHA (The EU PTA) entered into force on 5 December 2011. The following table sets out the number of British nationals transferred from other EU member states to To date 18 member states (including the United England and Wales since the EU PTA entered into Kingdom) have implemented the Agreement. The European force in December 2011. 10 prisoners have been transferred. Court of Justice will have jurisdiction over the measure from 1 December 2014 and member states may face Time left to infraction proceedings if they have not implemented the serve in custody Agreement by then. following Use of the EU PTA is an early stage and the number Sentence Year of Sentence transfer of prisoners transferred remains low. However, we expect State Transfer Length Offence Type (days) to see a significant increase in the number of prisoner Belgium 2013 3 years, Drugs 415 transferred once the Agreement has been implemented 11 months by all member states. Belgium 2013 5 years Human 476 Trafficking To date 17 prisoners have been transferred to other Belgium 2013 8 years Sexual Offences 1,195 jurisdictions. Denmark 2012 14 years Drugs 1,324 The following table sets out the number of prisoners Denmark 2012 3 years Drugs 146 transferred from England and Wales to other EU member Denmark 2012 2 years Fraud 124 states since the implementation of the EU PTA in Italy 2013 5 year, Drugs 974 4 months December 2011. Italy 2013 9 years, Drugs 1,617 6 months Time left to Italy 2013 2 years, Drugs 267 serve in the 10 months United Kingdom on Italy 2013 15 years, Drugs 1,847 the date of 4 months Receiving Year of Sentence transfer Notes: State Transfer Length Offence Type (days) 1. The figures given in the tables relate to England and Wales only. The transfer of prisoners to Scotland and to Northern Ireland is a devolved matter, and is Belgium 2013 8 years Wounding 1,016 therefore the responsibility of the relevant Minister. with intent 2. The numbers reported here are drawn from a Prison Service Case Tracking Belgium 2013 5 years, Facilitating 634 System. Care is taken when processing these cases but the figures may be subject 5 months illegal entry to inaccuracies associated with any recording system. Belgium 2013 9 years Drugs 1,135 Latvia 2013 10 years Death by 882 All foreign national offenders (FNOs) sentenced to dangerous custody are referred to the Home Office for them to driving consider deportation at the earliest possible opportunity. Malta 2013 6 years Sexual 578 offences The Prisoner Transfer process is just one mechanism The 2013 7 years Drugs 1,043 Netherlands for removing Foreign National Offenders. The number The 2013 15 years Drugs 2,098 of FNOs deported under the Early Removal Scheme Netherlands (ERS) has increased under this Government. In 2013, The 2013 10 years Drugs 1,189 we removed nearly 2,000 FNOs under ERS and under Netherlands the Tariff Expired Removal Scheme (TERS), which was The 2013 6 years Drugs 544 introduced in May 2012, we have removed 231 FNOs to Netherlands date. The 2013 5 years, Sex Offences 437 Netherlands 3 months Whereas this Government has begun to reduce the The 2013 6 years, Drugs 793 Netherlands 6 months foreign national population in prison since 2010, between The 2013 5 years, Drugs 608 1997 and 2010, the number of foreign nationals in our Netherlands 6 months prisons more than doubled. 253W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 254W

Prisons Mr Vara: I will write to the right hon. Member for East Ham regarding the issues he has raised on legal aid Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice and remission of court fees. On the assisted prison how many activity spaces per prisoner there were in (a) visits, we are liaising further with the Department for adult male prisons, (b) adult female prisons, (c) youth Work and Pensions. male prisons and (d) youth female prisons on 1 March (i) 2010, (ii) 2011, (iii) 2012 and (iv) 2013 in (A) the prison estate and (B) each prison. [191287] TREASURY Jeremy Wright: The information requested is not available centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. National Institute for Medical Research However, the number of activity spaces agreed within each public sector prison establishment’s service level Dr Offord: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer agreement for 2013-14 is published at the following what cost-benefit analysis he has made of the relocation location: of the National Institute for Medical Research to King’s Cross. [194716] http://www.justice.gov.uk/information-access-rights/ transparency-data/prison-service-level-agreement-and- probation-trust-contracts Mr Willetts: I have been asked to reply on behalf of These documents are a historical record of the public the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. sector prison service level agreements at the point at The future location of the National Institute for which they took effect. These agreements remain subject Medical Research (NIMR) was part of the careful to change, through formal procedures, throughout the consideration and approval of the outline and final year. business cases for the Francis Crick Institute (at the Work in prisons is a key priority to ensure prisoners time known as the UK Centre for Medical Research are engaged purposefully while they are in custody. It and Innovation) according to standard protocols. also gives them the opportunity to learn skills and a work ethic which can increase their chances of finding National Insurance Contributions employment on release, a key element to reducing reoffending. Stephen Timms: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Our reforms to the Incentives and Earned Privileges (1) what estimate he has made of the number of women national policy framework came into effect in adult with (a) two, (b) three, (c) four and (d) five or more prisons on 1 November 2013. Prisoners will be expected jobs; and how many such people do not earn a total to engage in purposeful activity, as well as demonstrate income above the lower earnings threshold through all a commitment towards their rehabilitation, reduce their their employments; [195289] risk of reoffending, behave well and help others if they (2) what estimate he has made of the number of (a) are to earn privileges. people and (b) women who work in more than one job The number of prisoners working in industrial activity but do not pay national insurance even though their in public sector prisons increased from around 8,600 in total earnings are above the lower earnings threshold; 2010-11 to around 9,700 in 2012-13. This delivered an [195268] increase in the total hours worked in industrial activities (3) what estimate he has made of the number of from 10.6 million hours to 13.1 million hours. In addition people with (a) two, (b) three, (c) four and (d) five or there are substantial numbers of prisoners who work to more jobs; and how many of such people’s total earnings keep prisons running on tasks such as cooking, serving do not meet the lower earnings threshold; [195269] meals, maintenance and cleaning. (4) how many people who do not meet the income Public Expenditure threshold required to pay National Insurance contributions opt to pay national insurance contributions voluntarily. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for [195270] Justice what programmes which receive funding from his Department are available solely to (a) men and (b) Mr Gauke: Estimates of the number of (a) people women. [194407] and (b) women who work in more than one job but do not pay national insurance, even though their total Simon Hughes: The information required to provide earnings are above the lower earnings threshold; and, of a full response to the question could not be collated those, how many are women, are available at: within the timeframe available. I will write to the hon. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pension- Member providing a full reply in due course. coverage-lower-earnings-limit-and-multiple-jobs The rest of the information requested is not available. Universal Credit

Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Revenue and Customs Justice if he will estimate the cost to the public purse of extending entitlement to (a) assistance with civil and Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Chancellor of the criminal legal aid, (b) remission for court fees and (c) Exchequer what assessment HM Revenue and Customs access to the assisted prison visits programme to all has made of the economic viability of its Customs claimants of universal credit once universal credit has House landholding adjacent to Dover Priory railway been fully rolled out. [193245] station. [195081] 255W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 256W

Mr Gauke: HMRC has made no assessment of the care business; and contributed £600,000 to the Get economic viability of the Priory Court Dover landholding Mentoring project which has recruited and trained over adjacent to Dover Priory railway station, 15,000 volunteer business mentors, more than 6,000 of whom are women. We also recently partnered with Taxation: Self-employed Young Enterprise and announced the ’Women’s Start Up Project’, a scheme to encourage young women Mr Prisk: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer studying at undergraduate level to set up and run real what estimate he has made of the additional revenue start-up businesses. secured since 2010 as a result of changes to the IR35 These measures are making a difference. In 2010 only tax regulations affecting the self-employed. [187119] 14% of small and medium sized enterprises were either run by women or by a team that was over 50% female; Mr Gauke: The intermediaries’ legislation, known as in 2012, this had risen to 19%. IR35, does not apply to the self-employed, rather it applies to those providing their services through an intermediary (normally a limited company) who if it were not for the intermediary would otherwise be considered CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT an employee of the client. BBC IR35 ensures that under such circumstances broadly the same tax and National Insurance contributions are Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for paid as if the individual were directly employed. Culture, Media and Sport what discussions she has had A very minor change to the IR35 legislation was with the BBC Trust regarding the level of income to the made in 2010 in consequence of the Corporation Taxes BBC from BBC Enterprises; and if she will make a Act 2010. statement. [195248] HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) have currently Mr Vaizey: BBC Enterprises has been known as BBC four specialist compliance teams which undertake Worldwide since 1995—this is the profit-making arm of investigations of intermediaries (commonly called personal the BBC. My Department and I are in regular contact service companies) operating across all sectors where with the BBC. No discussions have recently taken place potential non-compliance with IR35 is suspected. These concerning the dividend paid by BBC Worldwide to the teams form part of a restructuring of HMRC’s BBC. administration of IR35 following recommendations in March 2011 by the Office of Tax Simplification. Revenue BBC: USA secured under IR35 from this direct compliance activity between 6 April 2010 and 5 April 2013 is £2.519 million. Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Figures for 2013/14 are not currently available. Culture, Media and Sport what recent discussions she has had with the BBC Trust on the sale of BBC content Unpaid Taxes in the US; and if she will make a statement. [195373]

Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State has had no discussions Exchequer how many people have been issued demand with the BBC Trust on the sale of BBC content in the notices for unpaid tax in each of the last five years. US. Under the terms of its Charter and Agreement the [194790] BBC is operationally and editorially independent of Government. Mr Gauke: HMRC does not hold data on the total Local Broadcasting: Television number of letters issued demanding payment of an established and overdue tax debt over the last five years. Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what estimate she has made of the level of funding from the public purse for local WOMEN AND EQUALITIES television in each year to 2020. [195457] Females: New Businesses Mr Vaizey: As part of the licence fee settlement in Robert Halfon: To ask the Minister for Women and October 2010, the BBC agreed to commit up to £25 million Equalities what steps she is taking to encourage women to establish the local TV broadcast network up to March 2017. The BBC also agreed to provide up to to start their own businesses. [195023] £5 million per year for the last three years of the licence Jenny Willott: We are creating the right conditions fee settlement to March 2017 to acquire content from for companies to thrive and making it easier for people local TV stations, subject to this being suitable for to start successful new businesses. Government offers a inclusion in a UK public service. There is no commitment wide range of support to new businesses, for example, for further public funding after the end of this licence providing advice and support through the Growth fee period. Accelerator and improving access to finance through Private Sector the British Business Bank and the Start Up Loan scheme. Over 37% of Start Up Loans have gone to female Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, entrepreneurs. Media and Sport how many jobs have been transferred In addition, Government Equalities Office has committed from the public to the private sector as a result of £1.6 million to support rural women’s enterprise; £2 million privatisations or outsourcing by her Department since in small grants to help people to set up their own child May 2010. [195506] 257W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 258W

Mrs Grant: CMS has not outsourced or privatised comprehensive and accurate response would require a any parts of its Department. manual search of files and therefore could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Rugby: World Cup

Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what steps she is taking to HEALTH promote (a) the Rugby World Cup in 2015 and (b) the Amex Stadium at Falmer as one of the venues for that Abortion event; and if she will make a statement. [194876] Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs Grant: In May we reach 500 days to go until the Health if he will issue updated guidance on the two Rugby World Cup and I am working with England doctor rule for abortions. [194878] 2015, Visit England and Foreign and Commonwealth Office to support the Webb Ellis Trophy Tour to promote Jane Ellison: Guidance on compliance with the Abortion the event internationally.I will also be seeking opportunities Act is currently in development and will be published to support the volunteer programme. I support the shortly. This will clarify for medical practitioners what regional spread of venues for the Rugby World Cup and is required of them when making a decision under the I know that England 2015 is working closely with Act. Brighton and Hove council to put on a fantastic celebration of Rugby in the area. Robert Flello: To ask the Secretary of State for Tate Modern Health how many abortions have been performed in the UK in the last 30 years. [195327] Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Jane Ellison: Annual totals since 1968 can be found Culture, Media and Sport what recent assessment she in table la of ‘Abortion Statistics, England and Wales: has made of whether the Tate Modern extension 2012 Summary information from the abortion notification project will be completed within budget; and when that forms returned to the chief medical officers of England project is scheduled for completion. [195247] and Wales’. A copy has been placed in the Library. Mr Vaizey: The Tate Modern Project is reviewed periodically by the Major Projects Authority within the Antibiotics: Drug Resistance Cabinet Office’s Efficiency and Reform Group, and the DCMS Investment Committee, as is usual for a major Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for project of this nature. The building will open in 2016 Health pursuant to the answer of 4 March 2014, and the project is on course to meet that target. Official Report, columns 779-80W, on death bacterial diseases, if he will make it his policy to collect and Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for publish data on (a) how many NHS patients have died Culture, Media and Sport what the funding sources are due to antibiotic resistance and (b) which specific for the Tate Modern extension project. [195250] pathogens or drug resistant strains of infection caused such deaths. [195017] Mr Vaizey: The majority of fundraising for the Tate Modern extension project is from private sources, with Dr Poulter: Although information on deaths associated a contribution of £50 million from Government and with specific antibiotic resistant infections is not currently £7 million from the Greater London Authority. Recently available from routine data sources, the Department is announced donors include the Wolfson Foundation exploring options for producing better and more reliable and the Eyal Ofer Family Foundation. surveillance. These options include the linking of death registration with resistance-specific surveillance datasets Work Programme on healthcare associated infections. We understand that the first set of mortality data, covering methicillin-resistant Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Staphylococcus aureus and C.difficile infection, should Culture, Media and Sport (1) how many complaints be made available by Public Health England, towards have been made to the Equalities and Human Rights the end of the year. Commission about the Work Programme on the grounds of equality since June 2011; [195344] Dementia (2) how many complaints have been made to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission on the Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for treatment of employment and support allowance Health what steps he is taking to improve international recipients on the Work Programme on the grounds of collaboration in (a) sharing research findings and best disability discrimination since June 2011. [195343] practice in care and (b) taking steps to remove stigma against those people diagnosed with dementia Mrs Grant: The Equality and Human Rights following the G8 summit on dementia in December; Commission is an independent body and I have asked and if he will make a statement. [194823] the Commission to provide the information. The Commission’s records of complaints received do not Norman Lamb: As part of its presidency of the G8 identify specific policy initiatives, such as the Work last year, the United Kingdom led an all-out global Programme, raised by complainants. Providing a fight-back against dementia. 259W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 260W

Since the summit the Prime Minister has appointed Dental Services: West Midlands Dr Dennis Gillings, CBE, PhD, as a World Dementia Envoy. Dr Gillings will create a World Dementia Council Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health to stimulate innovation, development and commercialisation what estimate he has made of the likely patient charge of life enhancing drugs, treatments and care for people revenue for Birmingham and the Black Country Area with dementia, and in protection of those at risk of Team from NHS Dental Services in (a) 2013-14 and dementia, within a generation. The Council will be (b) 2014-15. [195399] independent of Government and will have expertise in pharmaceuticals, research, investment, civic society and Dr Poulter: The Department has made no estimate of have sufficient global influence, reach and profile to the likely patient charge revenue for Birmingham, Solihull deliver the fund. The Department will shortly be and Black Country area team from national health announcing the first members of the Council. service dental services in 2013-14 and 2014-15. This is a We are also taking forward our commitment to hold matter for NHS England. a series of high-level global fora throughout 2014, in partnership with the Organisation for Economic Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Co-operation and Development (OECD), World Health if he will make an assessment of the effectiveness of the Organisation (WHO), the European Commission, the management of the Birmingham and the Black EU Joint Programme on Neurodegenerative Disease Country Area Team in relation to the shortfall or (JPND), and civil society. Global events will begin with surplus between the predicted and actual patients the UK event on dementia and social impact investment charges revenue for NHS Dental Services in (a) in June and will be followed by a September event in 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13. [195402] Canada, (co-hosted by Canada and France) on partnerships between academia and industry and a further event in Dr Poulter: The Department will not make an assessment Japan on new care and prevention models later in the of the effectiveness of the management of the Birmingham, year. Solihull and Black Country area team in relation to the And we will meet again in the United States in shortfall or surplus between the predicted and actual February 2015 with other global experts, including WHO patients charges revenue for national health service and OECD, to review the progress that has been made dental services in 2011-12 and 2012-13. This is a matter on the 2013 G8 dementia summit commitments. for NHS England. Sound models exist in the UK for sharing research data, including the Medical Research Council’s (MRC’s) Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health UK Dementia Research Platform, and Alzheimer’s what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the Research UK and the Alzheimer’s Society’s joint portal Birmingham and the Black Country Area Team for patients and carers. With regard to international management of patient charge revenue from NHS research collaboration, the MRC and the National Institute Dental Services. [195403] for Health Research (NIHR) National Director for Dementia Research are working with the OECD on the Dr Poulter: The Department has made no assessment effective international sharing of dementia research data. of the effectiveness of the Birmingham, Solihull and The MRC leads for the UK on the JPND which Black Country area team management of patient charge encompasses Switzerland and Canada, 21 participating revenue from dental health services. EU member states, and five other countries associated This is a matter for NHS England. with the EU. The JPND is helping to increase the effectiveness and impact of research efforts on dementia. Epilepsy The JPND has published a comprehensive analysis of 171 longitudinal cohorts of value to neurodegenerative Alun Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Health disease research, with further work to come on overcoming what assessment he has made of the adequacy of barriers to research. Discussions are also expected soon funding, information and training available for people between the JPND and United States experts on the with epilepsy and their families. [194300] relationship between different research databases. Norman Lamb: No assessment has been made of the Paul Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for adequacy of funding, information and training available Health what steps his Department is taking to reduce for people with epilepsy and their families. The majority the use of antipsychotic medication in the management of patients with this condition can be successfully managed of people with dementia; and if he will make a in primary and secondary care and the delivery of such statement. [194912] services is a local matter. Norman Lamb: The National Dementia and To support the delivery of high quality epilepsy services, Antipsychotic Prescribing Audit (2012) showed a 52% in January 2012, the National Institute for Health and fall in the level of prescribing of antipsychotic medication Care Excellence (NICE) published a clinical guideline to people with dementia over the previous five years. that sets out best practice in the diagnosis, treatment care and support of adults and children with this condition. The Department has commissioned the Health and The guidance states that epilepsy nurse specialists should Social Care Information Centre to re-run the audit and be an integral part of the network of care of children, results are expected in the autumn of 2014. young people and adults with epilepsy. One of their National Institute for Health and Care Excellence roles is to educate, inform and support the patient and guidelines on the prescribing of antipsychotics to people their family with specific training about the management with dementia are still current. of seizures, among other things. 261W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 262W

In February 2013, NICE published Quality Standards and if his Department will take steps to publicise the for both children and adults epilepsy services. Quality needs of those with post polio syndrome amongst Standards are important in setting out to patients, the medical professionals. [194920] public, commissioners and providers what a high quality service should look like in a particular area of care. Norman Lamb: Since 1 April 2013 NHS England has Epilepsy nurse specialists are a key feature of both of been responsible for determining the overall national these. approach to improving clinical outcomes from health care services, including for patients with long-term Heart Diseases: North East conditions such as post-polio syndrome (PPS). NHS England is adopting a broad strategy for delivering Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for improvements in relation to long-term conditions, rather Health what recent assessment he has made of the than pursuing a condition specific approach. quality of care and treatment of patients with heart Although there is currently no cure for PPS, there are failure in the North East. [194915] a range of treatments and support available to help manage the symptoms and improve quality of life for Jane Ellison: No such assessment has been made. patients including: The National Heart Failure Audit April 2012—March physical therapy known as “pacing” to help recognise and 2013 provides a national assessment of the quality of manage fatigue; care and treatment of patients with heart failure in appropriate pain relief; and England. It provides data by provider, but does not diet and exercise advice. provide a regional break-down of figures. Information for the public on PPS is available on the The audit is available at: NHS choices website. More detailed information for www.ucl.ac.uk/nicor/audits/heartfailure/documents/ clinicians can be found on the Map of Medicine (MOM), annualreports/hfannual12-13.pdf which can be used by doctors working in the NHS to Hereditary Diseases decide on the best treatment options for patients. There are links from the NHS Choices website directly to the MOM. Robert Flello: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many children were born with sex-linked The MOM has collaborated with the British Polio inherited conditions in the last five years for which Fellowship to update the ’post-polio syndrome (PPS)’ records are available. [195328] care map. The care map features information on diagnosis, rehabilitation and management of PPS, and is based on Dr Poulter: It is not possible to classify a diagnosis of high quality guidelines, quality-assessed secondary literature, ’sex-linked inherited conditions’ within the ICD-10 and practice-based knowledge from a multidisciplinary classification, and therefore the Health and Social Care group including neurologists, physiotherapists, sociologists, Information Centre cannot provide any data without and general practitioners. specific conditions being identified. Psoriasis Palliative Care: Children Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for (1) what steps he is taking to transpose quality statements Health if he will take steps to update the NHS 1 and 2 of the National Institute for Care and Clinical Outcomes Framework with the aim of ensuring that Excellence quality standard on psoriasis into Clinical every child can access palliative care in the setting of Commissioning Group outcome indicators; [195334] their or their family’s choice, 24 hours a day, seven days (2) what data requirements are necessary to precipitate a week; and if he will make a statement. [194824] the development of Clinical Commissioning Group Norman Lamb: There are no current plans to update Outcome Indicators based on quality statements 1 and the NHS Outcomes Framework with an indicator in 2 of the NICE quality standard on psoriasis. [195390] relation to choice for children accessing palliative care. However, a review of the NHS Outcomes Framework Norman Lamb: The Health and Social Care Information will be conducted this year, which will include a public Centre (HSCIC) has advised that it has made some consultation. The resulting refreshed NHS Outcomes investigations into the information that would be required Framework 2015-16 will be published in the autumn. to support the indicators proposed by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) on the NHS England and Monitor are working to propose a Psoriasis Quality Standard. new per-patient funding system for palliative care for adults and children, to be introduced from 2015, which The HSCIC found that there was a need for some will provide greater clarity for commissioners on the development in the Read codes used by clinicians to costs of care, and allow more flexible approaches to be record patient findings and procedures in health and developed to give children and young people, and their social care Information Technology systems across primary families more choice. and secondary care; as well as guidance and clarification of definitions on the use of the existing Read codes for Poliomyelitis recording to support the indicators proposed for the topic of psoriasis. Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for It should be noted that even where the data sources Health if his Department will create a strategy to meet the requirements of the topic, any inclusion of address the needs of those with post polio syndrome; indicators in the Clinical Commissioning Group Outcome 263W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 264W

Indicator Set (CCG OIS) requires there to be sufficient David Mundell: A breakdown of the relevant data cases for statistically reliable measurement across the requested can be found in the following table. No staff 211 clinical commissioning groups (CCG). work term-time or are on a home working contract. All The NICE CCG OIS Advisory Committee is due to staff have the opportunity to work flexible working review potential indicators derived from the NICE Psoriasis hours. Quality Standard at their October meeting. If any indicators based on Quality Statements 1 (Assessing Disease Severity) Percentage and 2 (Assessing Impact of Disease) are prioritised for Reduced or part- Compressed further development, they will then go through the Grade Gender time hours hours Job share process described in the recently published NICE Indicator Process Guide, which can be found at: SCS Male 0 0 0 www.nice.org.uk/media/03E/31/Indicators_process_guide.pdf Female 0 0 0 The Committee will use the prioritisation criteria Grade 6/7 Male 0 0 0 (detailed in appendix B of the process guide) to inform Female 0 0 3.3 their decision about which indicators progress through SEO Male 0 3.3 0 the process. Female 1.7 0 0 Potential CCG Outcomes Indicators are considered HEO Male 0 0 0 by the NICE CCG OIS advisory committee and the Female 1.7 0 0 indicator recommended by the Committee are then EO Male 0 0 0 considered by NHS England for inclusion in the CCG Female 0 0 0 OIS. Admin Male 1.7 0 0 Female 1.7 0 0

SCOTLAND

Social Rented Housing ATTORNEY-GENERAL Crimes of Violence Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions the Government has had Seema Malhotra: To ask the Attorney-General what with the Scottish Government on the introduction of a the average timescale was for the Crown Prosecution Right to Move scheme for social tenants. [193789] Service to provide the Metropolitan Police Service with advice on criminal charges against members of the David Mundell: Neither the Secretary of State for public suspected of involvement in serious crimes in Scotland, my right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney (a) 2011 to 2013 and (b) 2008 to 2010. [195079] and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), nor I have met with the Scottish Government to discuss the introduction of a The Solicitor-General: The following table shows, for Right to Move scheme for social tenants. Under the the CPS in London, the average number of calendar terms of devolution responsibility for housing, and that days which have elapsed since the first decision was of social housing is the responsibility of Scottish sought by the police to the date in which the last Government Ministers. HomeSwap Direct however, does decision made was to charge. The records held by the operate across the United Kingdom for those tenants Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) do not identify the wishing to mutually exchange within the social housing number of cases referred to it for advice, by the alleged sphere. offence(s).

Trade Unions Average time to a decision to charge Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-10 6.7 Scotland whether his Department is (a) undertaking 2011-13 6.2 or (b) plans to undertake a review of the check-off union subscription provision. [194046] The CPS in London deals with cases referred to it by both the Metropolitan police force and the City of David Mundell: The Scotland Office does not employ London police force and it is not possible to further staff directly, all staff that join do so on an assignment, break down the figures provided without incurring a loan or secondment from other government bodies who disproportionate cost. remain responsible for all employment matters including Homicide payroll deductions for union subscriptions. Seema Malhotra: To ask the Attorney-General how Working Hours and on what basis the Crown Prosecution Service decides whether to prioritise the allocation of resources Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland to its decision-making on criminal charges following what proportion of employees in his Department of conclusions of unlawful killing at an inquest or public what (a) Civil Service pay grade and (b) gender work inquiry; and whether there is additional consideration (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from home, (iv) a where the events in question occurred more than three compressed working week, (v) job share, (vi) term-time years prior to the conclusion of the inquest or public only and (vii) part-time. [193972] inquiry. [195080] 265W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 266W

The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service George Eustice: Freshwater fisheries is a devolved (CPS) will consider whether there is any new evidence issue. Natural Resources Wales has responsibility for or information within the coroner’s proceedings which administering rod licences in Wales. may have an impact upon any previous CPS decision not to bring criminal charges against an individual(s) or Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency organisation following a conclusion of unlawful killing at an inquest or public inquiry. Where it is found that a Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for further investigation will need to be conducted by the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what veterinary police, and a fresh decision made by the CPS, the police and animal welfare qualifications and training are a and CPS should ensure the coroner and bereaved family/ criteria of becoming an inspector at the Animal Health next of kin are notified of the next steps to be taken. and Veterinary Laboratories Agency. [195066] The allocation of CPS resources to make decisions on criminal charges will be determined by the specific George Eustice: Animal Health Veterinary Laboratories facts and circumstances of the individual case. The Agency (AHVLA) employs veterinarians and animal Complex Casework Units in each of the CPS areas will health officers who both are inspectors. Veterinarians deal with more complex homicide cases; other homicide employed by AHVLA must have a veterinary degree cases will be handled by senior prosecutors in the areas. and be members of the Royal College of Veterinary The Special Crime and Counter Terrorism Division in Surgeons (MRCVS). AHVLA supports these veterinarians CPS headquarters also deals with a wide range of to achieve the annual number of days continued homicide cases including deaths in custody, assisted development required to maintain their MRCVS. suicides, terrorist-related homicides and homicides arising Animal health officers are not qualified veterinarians from so-called ’disaster’ cases. There are no additional and have no requirement for any veterinary qualifications. considerations where the events in question occurred They are trained in a variety of aspects relevant to their more than three years prior to the conclusion of the function and that are essential to their duties, including inquest or public inquiry. animal welfare, animal health, enforcement and evidence gathering. Furthermore, and in order to fulfil this function, Police: Offenders animal health officers are appointed as Inspectors under the Animal Health Act 1981. A senior veterinarian in Seema Malhotra: To ask the Attorney-General what the organisation ensures that appointed inspectors only the average timescale was for the Crown Prosecution use the powers to act as an inspector when they are Service to provide the Independent Police Complaints deemed competent to do so. Commission with advice on criminal charges against AHVLA has an annual programme of training for its current or former police officers suspected of veterinary staff and animal health officers to ensure involvement in serious crimes in (a) 2011 to 2013 and that they maintain and develop knowledge in their (b) 2008 to 2010. [195078] particular areas of expertise.

The Solicitor-General: The records held by the Crown Ash Dieback Disease Prosecution Service (CPS) do not identify the number of cases referred to it for advice by the Independent Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Police Complaints Commission. Such information could Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) when his be obtained only through a manual search of records Department will (a) complete and (b) publish its review which would incur disproportionate cost. of the Chalara Management Plan; and if he will make a statement; [195061] (2) what the reasons are for the time taken for the review of the Chalara management plan; why the ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS updated plan was not published by the Government’s March 2014 target; and if he will make a statement. Anaerobic Digestion [195097]

Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Rogerson: The Government will publish an updated Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he plans management approach to ‘Chalara’ alongside updated to publish a report on the implementation of the management approaches to other established tree pests Department’s anaerobic digestion strategy and action and diseases, and those that pose an imminent threat, in plan for 2013-14. [195114] a single Tree Health Management Plan. This Plan will set out the action that the Government and others are Dan Rogerson: We intend to publish a further report taking to protect our tree population from pests and on implementation of the Anaerobic Digestion Strategy diseases. It will be published alongside the wider Plant and Action Plan later this year. Biosecurity Strategy later this spring.

Angling: Wales Biodiversity

Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether income Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the raised from rod licence sales in Wales will continue to individual total cost is of each of the biodiversity be hypothecated for the protection and improvement of offsetting pilot schemes in (a) Devon, (b) Doncaster, fisheries in Wales. [194867] (c) Essex, (d) Greater Norwich, (e) Nottinghamshire, 267W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 268W

(f) Warwickshire, (g) Coventry and (h) Solihull to http://guidanceanddata.defra.gov.uk date; and what the estimated total cost is of the schemes. I have placed copies in the library of the House. [195095] An implementation plan outlining reform measures for environmental information required from businesses Dan Rogerson: This information is not held centrally. is due to be published on 9 April. This implementation An evaluation of the pilots is being produced and will plan will be available on www.gov.uk. Remaining measures be published. featuring farming-related information obligations are Dogs: Imports due to be published in June.

Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Flood Control for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether changes in the number of puppies and dogs imported Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for from EU member states since January 2012 are Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many consistent with AHLVA risk assessment in 2010. non-Flood and Coastal Erosion Risk Management [193356] staff counted under the Flood and Coastal Erosion Risk Management cost-heading at the Environment George Eustice: The quantitative risk assessment carried Agency have been redeployed to inspect flood defence out prior to harmonisation with the EU pet travel rules assets in each of the last five months. [195062] in 2012 took into account, among other things, a number of variables including increases in the number of pets Dan Rogerson: The Environment Agency has not entering the UK. The risk assessment was published in redeployed any non-flood and coastal erosion risk 2011 and is available here: management staff to inspect flood risk management http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/ assets in the last five months. The Environment Agency atoz/rabies/documents/se0535-rabies-ara.pdf only uses fully trained staff to inspect assets and has trained and used 200 armed forces personnel for this Environment Protection purpose.

Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the reason Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many and is for the time his Department has taken to revise and what proportion of flood management assets have been publish environmental guidance on gov.uk. [195191] inspected in each year since 2008-09. [195063]

Dan Rogerson: A target has been set to simplify all of Dan Rogerson: Since 2008-09 the Environment Agency DEFRA and its agencies’ guidance, including general has inspected all of its flood risk management assets on reader and specialist guidance, by March 2015 with an a risk-based programme. The highest risk assets are expected reduction in volume of over 80%. inspected every six months, medium risk assets every Guidance reform plans have now been prepared for 12 to 18 months, low risk assets every 24 to 36 months all environmental topics and the Environment Agency and very low risk assets every 60 months. The Environment started to put revised guidance on: Agency currently has around 150,000 flood risk www.gov.uk management assets. In March 2014 the Environment on 31 March. 70% of simplified content for the general Agency carried out a full inspection of all flood risk reader will be on gov.uk during April and the rest by management assets using military personnel. June. DEFRA and the Government Digital Service (GDS) Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for are working closely together to make the most effective Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many use of resources as GDS migrates DEFRA’s arm’s non-flood and coastal erosion risk management length bodies’ web content to gov.uk. The original (FCERM) staff at the Environment Agency, including target date for completing this migration process was such non-FCERM staff funded through the FCERM March this year. This timing has been revised to July. budget, were redeployed for emergency flood response activities in (a) 2010-11, (b) 2011-12, (c) 2012-13, (d) Environment Protection: Business 2013-14 and (e) 2014-15 to date. [195101]

Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Rogerson: The figures are as follows: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will publish (a) 2010-11—no data available. the findings of his Department’s root and branch (b) 2011-12—no data available. review of the environmental information required from (c) 2012-13—approximately 5,000 staff involved in flood response businesses; and when he plans to publish plans for (this included Environment Agency Wales at that time). Of this, implementing changes to those requirements. [195112] approximately 38% (1,900) of staff were from non-flooding and coastal erosion risk management (FCRM) functions. This does Dan Rogerson: Initial findings of DEFRA’s root and not include contractors. branch review of the environmental information required (d) 2013-14—approximately 500 staff involved in flood response. from businesses were published on the Smarter Guidance Of this, approximately 50% (2,250) of staff were from non-FCRM and Data website last November. Findings for marine functions. This does not include the additional staff brought in and carbon information obligations followed in February. from Natural Resources Wales, contractors, or the military. These findings can be found at: (e) 2014-15—data not yet available. 269W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 270W

More detailed information on the numbers of the efficiencies across the business as a whole through new ways of non-FCRM staff involved in flood incidents which working to minimise the impacts on front line delivery. For were funded by FCRM or other budgets is not recorded. instance, it is removing its regional tier so that it only has national and area tiers. Simplifying structures in this way will help maximise Fracking investment in delivery. It will simplify business processes that will improve customer service and maintain strong engagement with a local presence in communities. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for The Environment Agency is also working with Natural England Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much on implementing the conclusions of the Triennial Review, looking income the Environment Agency expects to raise from at, how both organisations can work together to deliver efficient fracking firms to pay for the regulation of the industry; and effective services to customers. The Environment Agency will and if he will make a statement. [195084] continue to maximise benefits for every pound of funding. For example, by the end of March, it will have reduced the administrative Dan Rogerson: The Environment Agency does not budget by 33% compared to 2010/11 figures. Throughout the ongoing reorganisation, pollution prevention will remain a high separately record the income it expects to raise from priority and the additional £5 million funding for waste crime fracking firms. However, it does hold estimates of the announced in the Budget reflects the commitment to tackling charges it expects to raise from environmental permits these important issues. and licences for the onshore oil and gas industry as a As the Environment Agency moves out of incident mode whole. following the recent floods, it will be necessary to re-focus efforts Over the next year, with the current charging scheme, and revise planning assumptions to continue to bring the Environment the Environment Agency estimates income of between Agency costs in line with 2014/15 and 2015/16 budgets, (in light of £300,000 and £350,000. This includes fees from permit recent announcements of additional money for the Environment applications and annual subsistence, for mining waste, Agency). Decisions will need to be made in response to the additional £130 million announced on 6 February for flood risk groundwater, radioactive substances and water resources management, the further £140 million announced in the Budget permits. It does not include any site surrender fees as no to support the repair and maintenance of vital flood and coastal sites are expected to surrender their permits over the defences as well as the additional £5 million to tackle waste crime. next year. As the onshore shale gas part of the industry While the Environment Agency remains in incident mode and grows over time, we would expect the income from following the announcements of additional money, it is too early permitting charges to change. to’ confirm the full re-organisational impacts on staff at this stage. The numbers of job losses quoted in the press were, part of Members: Correspondence the Environment Agency’s initial internal scenario planning work back in November 2013, but did not reflect the settled position. The current priority for the Environment Agency is incident Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for response. Paul Leinster. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) when he intends to reply to the letter to him dated 7 February The Environment Agency Chief Executive, has assured me that any reductions in posts will not affect the Environment 2014 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Agency’s resilience and ability to respond to flooding incidents. Gorton regarding Mr J Rossi-Stephenson; [192112] The Environment Agency will be reviewing the timetable for (2) when he intends to reply to the letter to him dated the change programme in light of the extra funding announced 7 February 2014 from the right hon. Member for for flood risk management and waste crime. Other than the Manchester, Gorton with regard to Mr J Rossi- approximately 150 staff reductions following the Voluntary Early Stephenson; [193032] Release scheme initiated in January and the move to a national/area delivery model, no final decisions have been nor will be made (3) when he intends to reply to the letter to him dated about future workforce reductions or structures until the current 7 February 2014 from the right hon. Member for flooding subsides. Manchester, Gorton with regards to Mr J Rossi- I hope your constituent finds this information useful. Stephenson. [195059]

Dan Rogerson: A response to right hon. Member’s Nurseries letter of 7 February 2014, with regard to Mr J Rossi- Stephenson, was sent on the 3 April 2014. Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Copies of the response will be made available in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the House Library. answer of 24 March 2014, Official Report, column 35W Letter from Owen Paterson, dated 3 April 2014: on nurseries, whether his Department claims tax relief Thank you for your letter of 7 February on behalf of your against the cost of such workplace nurseries. [195242] constituent, Mr J Rossi-Stephenson of 27 Woodland Road, Gorton, Manchester, who is concerned about Environment Agency cuts Dan Rogerson: DEFRA does not claim tax relief and the impact this would have on the organisation’s future against the cost of running workplace nurseries as it ability to effectively carry out its responsibilities. I am sorry for does not pay corporation tax. the delay in replying. I appreciate Mr Rossi-Stephenson’s concerns. Across Government we are continuing to have to make some tough choices in relation Packaging to budgets to help reduce the deficit and deliver savings. The Environment Agency is playing its part in this and is making its own choices about how best to use its resources. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Following the 2013 Spending Round, budget pressures mean that the. Environment Agency needs to ensure it has an affordable he has made of the potential effect on the marine business and is structured so that it has the right people, in the environment of the exemption of biodegradable plastic right places, with the right skills to deliver the best environmental bags and paper bags from his single-use plastic bag outcomes. The Environment Agency will firstly look to achieve charging policy. [194976] 271W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 272W

Dan Rogerson: Plastic, mainly plastic bags and bottles, his Department’s Biodegradable Plastic Carrier Bags is estimated to account for more than 70% of the total Solutions through Innovation research call; and how number of marine debris in European seas. The charge many of those projects met each of the five functions will focus on plastic bags as this is a targeted, proportionate and characteristics outlined in the research call. approach to the problem of carrier bag distribution and [194980] littering. Paper bags make up less than 0.1% of carrier bags Dan Rogerson: DEFRA received six bids for Lot 1, distributed in the UK by the seven major supermarket Phase 1 of this research call. retailers. Overall, paper bags make up a very small Two bids met the requirements outlined in the research proportion of total carrier bag numbers, the vast majority call and are being funded by DEFRA. of which are single-use plastic bags. Plastic carrier bags take the longest to degrade in the Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for natural environment, therefore decomposition in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many projects marine environment will be one of the considerations were taken forward from Phase 1 of his Department’s when setting a standard for a biodegradable plastic bag Biodegradable Plastic Carrier Bags Solutions through exempt from the charge. Innovation research call feasibility studies which concluded on 31 March 2014 in (a) Lot 1 and (b) Lot 2. [194981] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Dan Rogerson: DEFRA has funded and taken forward he has made of the carbon emissions resulting from the two feasibility study projects in Lot 1 and two feasibility production, transport and disposal or recycling of study projects in Lot 2 of this research call. paper bags. [194978] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Rogerson: The calculation of lifecycle greenhouse Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the total gas emissions from paper bags is available in the 2011 number of projects involved was in Lot 2, Phase 1 of research report “Life cycle assessment of supermarket his Department’s Biodegradable Plastic Carrier Bags carrier bags”, which was commissioned and funded by Solutions through Innovation Research Call; and how the Environment Agency. This forms part of the evidence many of those projects addressed the technical and base for the impact assessment that will be available in economic issues outlined in the research call. [194986] due course. I have placed a copy of the report in the Library of the House. Dan Rogerson: DEFRA received two bids for Lot 2, Phase 1 of this research call. Plastic Bags Both bids addressed the technical and economic issues outlined in the research call and are being funded by Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for DEFRA. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment he has made of the carbon emissions resulting from the Poultry production, transport and disposal or recycling of currently available biodegradable plastic bags. [194977] Sir Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will review Dan Rogerson: The calculation of lifecycle greenhouse the minimum welfare requirements for ducks raised in gas emissions from bags currently labelled as biodegradable captivity. [194997] or compostable is available in the 2011 research report “Life cycle assessment of supermarket carrier bags”, George Eustice: The welfare of ducks is provided for which was commissioned and funded by the Environment in the general provisions of the Animal Welfare Act Agency. This reviewed the bags available in 2006. I have 2006 and the Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) placed a copy of the report in the Library of the House. Regulations 2007. We have no plans to review these requirements. DEFRA also has a statutory duck welfare Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for code, which encourages high standards of husbandry. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what criteria a biodegradable plastic bag will need to fulfil for exemption DEFRA, the RSPCA, academics and the duck industry from his single use plastic bag charging policy. [194979] have done a good deal of work over the last few years looking at how water could be provided to ducks in a Dan Rogerson: We intend to exempt biodegradable commercial setting. DEFRA contributed to the RSPCA’s bags that meet certain standards from the charge to give ’Higher Duck Welfare Programme’ and the standards consumers an alternative to using single-use plastic in the RSPCA’s Freedom Foods scheme and the industry’s bags when they do not take a reusable bag with them. own Duck Assurance Scheme reflect the latest research. The standards will be worked up in consultation with As a result of this collaborative approach, duck welfare industry. They are likely to cover how the bag should standards have been raised. behave during disposal or recycling (for example, having a short degradation time period), resource use, energy Rabbits consumption during production and other elements across their lifecycle. Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will issue Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for updated advice on the care of pets to address the issues Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the total of the welfare and abandonment of domestic rabbits. number of projects was involved in Lot 1, Phase 1, of [194893] 273W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 274W

George Eustice: The poor welfare and abandonment Damian Green: The IPCC and Operation Resolve are of any animal is an offence under the Animal Welfare responsible for the publication of the findings of their Act 2006 punishable by a fine of up to £5,000 or six investigations. Decisions on whether to publish will be months’ imprisonment or both. The Government has made once the investigations are complete. no plans to issue specific advice on keeping pet rabbits but such advice is available from animal welfare Human Trafficking organisations and some pet shops. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for the Water Companies Home Department pursuant to the answer of 20 March 2014, Official Report, column 685W,on human trafficking, Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for whether she plans for the review of the National Referral Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Mechanism to be completed before committee stage of he has made of how the recommendations of the HM the Modern Slavery Bill. [194183] Treasury report entitled Smoothing Investment Cycles in the Water Sector, published in July 2012, have Karen Bradley: An announcement on the review of affected the water sector. [195085] the National Referral Mechanism will be made shortly. Human Trafficking: Victim Support Schemes Dan Rogerson: Ofwat worked closely with HM Treasury and Infrastructure UK on the “Smoothing Investment Cycles in the Water Sector” report. In response to the Sir John Randall: To ask the Secretary of State for recommendations of that report, Ofwat has continued the Home Department what the nationality and gender to work with water companies and Infrastructure UK was of each suspected victim of trafficking referred to on action to address the up and down ‘cyclical investment’ the Trafficking Victim Support Scheme operated by the that has affected the sector for many years. Salvation Army in March 2014; which agency referred each person to that scheme; in which town the shelter This change in approach has had tangible outcomes. to which those people were placed for the relevant For example, in responding to incentives that Ofwat period was; and what contact is had with each such introduced in its methodology for the price review, victim to ensure their safety after they exit the scheme. water companies have stated in their business plans (December 2013) that they are bringing forward around [194896] £440 million of investment into 2014-15 to smooth the Karen Bradley: In March 2014, there were 126 referrals investment profile. This investment will improve the to the Government-funded support service for adult delivery of service outcomes to customers, support the victims of human trafficking in England and Wales supply chain and enable efficient delivery. administered by the Salvation Army. In the interests of victim safety only the region in which the victim was encountered is provided, and not which town they were placed in. Once an individual receives a Conclusive HOME DEPARTMENT Grounds decision they will be given tailored move-on support to safely return home or integrate in the UK. Azelle Rodney Inquiry Once they exit the service, no formal mechanisms exist to maintain contact. Seema Malhotra: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department pursuant to the statement of Riot Control Weapons 5 July 2013, Official Report, column 74WS, on the Azelle Rodney Inquiry, and with reference to the report Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for the of the Azelle Rodney Public Inquiry, what assessment Home Department if she will place in the Library a she has made of the responses of the Metropolitan copy of the report entitled The medical implications of Police Service and the Independent Police Complaints vehicle-mounted water cannon with special reference to Commission to the Inquiry’s findings and the Ziegler Wasserwerfer 9000 (WaWe 9) system, recommendations; and if she will make a statement. published by the Defence Science and Technology [195077] Laboratory in 2013. [188418]

Damian Green: The recommendations made in the Damian Green: The report will be placed in the Azelle Rodney Inquiry report have been considered Library when the Home Secretary announces her decision fully by the Metropolitan Police Service and the IPCC on whether to authorise water cannon for use by the and, as appropriate, are being taken forward by each police in England and Wales. organisation. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Hillsborough Stadium Home Department (1) if he will place in the Library a copy of the report, the medical implications of vehicle- Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for the mounted water cannon with special reference to the Home Department if she will digitise all evidence Ziegler Wasserwerfer 9000 (WaWe 9) system, published relating to Hillsborough which is being reviewed by the by the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory in IPCC and Operation Resolve investigations; and if she 2013; [193719] will make it her policy to publish such evidence (2) what information her Department holds on how electronically upon completion of both investigations. many injuries have been associated with the use of [195174] water cannon in Northern Ireland; [193720] 275W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 276W

(3) what steps she plans to take to ensure that the Climate Change: IPCC Report temperature of water within a water cannon tank is retained at five degrees Celsius; [193721] 10. John Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for (4) how many police officers in England are trained International Development what assessment she has to use water cannon; [193722] made of conclusions of the recent UN IPCC report on (5) what assessment she has made of the efficacy of the effects of climate change on developing countries. the existing tactics in place for use of water cannon in [903623] Northern Ireland; [193723] (6) if she will review the appropriateness of water Lynne Featherstone: The Government welcomes the cannon tactics used in Northern Ireland ahead of their IPCC report. Climate change poses very serious consequences to human health, global food security, possible use in London; [193724] and can slow economic growth. Its impacts will be an (7) what estimate she has made of the cost of extra burden for those living in poverty, and make it updating awareness training for public order-trained harder to reduce poverty in developing countries. staff operating alongside water cannon; [193725] (8) if she will review the strategic policing requirement Syria of water cannon based on planning assumptions around three spontaneous sets of disorder ahead of their 11. Glyn Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for deployment in London. [193726] International Development what recent assessment she has made of the humanitarian situation in Syria. Damian Green: The Secretary of State for the Home [903624] Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), has now received the request Justine Greening: The UN estimates that 9.3 million to authorise water cannon for use by the police in people are in dire need of humanitarian aid within England and Wales. She is considering this request and Syria. At least 6.5 million people in Syria have been will announce her decision in due course and lay the forced to flee their homes to other areas of the country relevant information in the House Library. and there are now over 2.6 million refugees in the region. Sri Lankan Tamils: Poverty INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT 12. Sarah Champion: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what recent assessment FGM and Forced Marriage she has made of the levels of poverty among Tamils living in Sri Lanka. [903625] 8. Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps she is taking Mr Duncan: Sri Lanka has met millennium development to tackle female genital mutilation and early and forced goal No. 1 which calls for the halving of extreme marriage worldwide. [903621] poverty, and is on track to meet most other MDGs. Poverty remains in areas of northern and eastern Sri Justine Greening: FGM is violence against women Lanka where large numbers of Tamils live. We do not and girls. The UK has made the largest donor commitment have a breakdown by ethnic group. ever to help end FGM, with a flagship programme of £35 million in at least 17 countries. Education: Children with Disabilities The Prime Minister will host a summit in July which will step up global efforts to end both FGM and child 13. Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for early and forced marriage within a generation. International Development what steps her Department is taking to ensure that all the education programmes it funds are inclusive of children with disabilities; and Garment Industry: Bangladesh what monitoring her Department undertakes to ensure that all such programmes include accessible materials 9. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for for use by children with disabilities. [903627] International Development what assessment she has made of international efforts to improve levels of Lynne Featherstone: The UK is committed to ensuring safety and conditions of work in Bangladesh’s garment all children, with a focus on the most marginalised and industry. [903622] those with disabilities have access to education institutions and complete a full cycle of quality education. We are Mr Duncan: I spent most of last week in Bangladesh, working with partners, such as UNICEF and UNESCO assessing the progress that has been made one year on Institute for Statistics, to improve data for monitoring from the tragedy of Rana Plaza. Steps have been taken purposes. to improve working conditions in the garment sector, including through factory inspections and strengthening Developing Countries: Females the labour inspection regime. The UK’s support is focused on all areas where action is needed: improving Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for building safety and working conditions, empowering International Development what her objectives are for workers and urging buyers to take responsibility for the summit on violence against women and girls in their supply chains. humanitarian emergencies. [194890] 277W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 278W

Justine Greening: Last November I convened a Call Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign to Action in relation to keeping women and girls safe in and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received humanitarian emergencies. The event brought together on (a) the trial in Bahrain of Mohammed Abdulla both UN agencies and donors, and has already resulted Al-Tajer and (b) his treatment in custody. [195139] in improved approaches in the Philippines and Syria. I pledged £21.6 million further funding to ensure this Hugh Robertson: We are aware of the case of work delivered tangible outcomes for women and girls Mohammad Al-Tajer. We understand he spent four including £4 million to ensure survivors of sexual violence months in detention in 2011 before his case was moved receive comprehensive support services. The US will from the National State Safety Court to the civilian host a follow-up event in September and this summer courts, as recommended by the Bahrain Independent the Foreign Secretary will host a summit on his Preventing Commission of Inquiry, where he was sentenced to one Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative, which aims to month in prison. We understand that he appealed the tackle the culture of impunity for sexual violence committed verdict and was acquitted by the High Appeal Civilian in conflict. court. We continue to encourage the Government of Bahrain to meet all of its human rights obligations, and Nigeria adhere to international standards. Central African Republic Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what education projects her Department is supporting in Nigeria. [195054] Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is Lynne Featherstone: DFID supports five education taking to encourage his counterparts in other EU member projects in Nigeria Education Sector Support Programme, states to support and commit resources to the EUFOR Girls’ Education Programme, Teacher Development RCA mission in the Central African Republic. [195019] Programme, Developing Effective Private Education, and Education Data, Research and Evaluation through Mark Simmonds: I welcome the launch of the EU which an additional 800,000 children will access better Force (EUFOR) military operation in the Central African quality schools by 2015. Republic (CAR) on 2 April. EUFOR will help the African-led International Support Mission to CAR DFID also supports two further projects through the (MISCA) and French (Sangaris) forces to provide security global Girls’ Education Challenge (Discovery Girls and in Bangui until a hand-over to MISCA or a possible Educating Nigerian Girls in New Enterprises), through UN Peacekeeping Operation can take place. I discussed which 48,000 marginalised girls will be supported to the importance of the mission with ministerial colleagues access better schools. in the margins of the EU-Africa Summit in Brussels on 1-2 April. The UK has played a strong role in the Palestinians planning for EUFOR, and is discussing the possibility of providing airlifts to help EUFOR’s deployment. Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Ongoing reports of violence in CAR demonstrate the International Development what progress her Department importance of this mission. has made on its programmes in Palestine. [903626] Christianity Mr Duncan: The UK’s bilateral programme in the Occupied Palestinian Territories is helping to build Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State Palestinian institutions, promote economic growth and for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what action support the most vulnerable Palestinians. Absent meaningful the Government is recommending on the UN Human action from Israel to ease movement and access restrictions, Rights Council to tackle the persecution of Christians however, our progress will always be limited. around the world. [195330]

Mr Hague: We welcomed the recent consensus adoption at the Human Rights Council of both the European FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Union’s regular resolution on ‘freedom of religion or belief’ and the Organisation of the Islamic Conference’s Bahrain resolution on ’religious intolerance’. This gives the international community a valuable starting point on Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign which to base discussions on how best to implement and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make representations these resolutions in practice. to the Bahraini government calling for the release of Senior Minister of State, my noble Friend the right Hussain Hubail on health grounds. [195091] hon. Baroness Warsi, is leading an international initiative to build up greater political support for practical measures Hugh Robertson: We are aware of the case of Hussain to combat religious intolerance and promote the social Hubail. We understand he was detained in connection and economic benefits of religious pluralism. with charges related to protests on 14 August last year and that the verdict for his case is due to be issued later Greece this month. We expect the Government of Bahrain to meet all of its human rights obligations, and to ensure Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for that all detainees have access to appropriate medical Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions care. he has had with his Greek counterpart on whether 279W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 280W protests will be permitted to coincide with the upcoming continue to follow closely the case of Mr Hakamada, EU meeting. [195239] and will work with like-minded partners to raise its profile. The embassy and the FCO put out messages on Mr Lidington: I have not raised this specific issue social media about the case on 28 March following his with my Greek counterpart. Authorities in Greece have release for retrial. the constitutional right to place restrictive or preventative measures on outdoor demonstrations. No such restrictions Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for were in place on 4 and 5 April 2014, the dates on which Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment the informal meeting of EU Ministers of Foreign Affairs he has made of the effect of Japan’s lifting of its ban was held in Athens. on arms exports on the UK. [195236] Italy Mr Swire: The Japanese Government’s new guidelines on arms exports have shifted the country’s policy on Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for arms exports from a de facto ban with occasional Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions exceptions, to a set of principles governing the transfer he has had with his Italian counterpart on the status of overseas of defence equipment. This move is in line foreign lecturers in Italian universities. [194913] with Japan’s National Security Strategy, published last year, and reflects the commitment of the Japanese Mr Lidington: The discrimination faced by UK and Government to play a more active role in international foreign national lecturers in Italy is unacceptable and peace and security, a commitment which the Secretary illegal. The Secretary of State for Foreign and of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), raised the ’lettori’ (Mr Hague), welcomed when he visited Tokyo in October with the then Italian Foreign Minister, Emma Bonino, 2013. on 25 October 2013. I met the then Italian Europe Minister, Enzo Moavero Milanesi, on 19 November The new principles which the Japanese Government 2013, and stressed the importance of progress. I also have published make clear that Japan will implement its met the Chairman of the Association of Foreign Lecturers new export control regime in line with international in Italy (ALLSI), David Petrie, on 28 November 2013, treaty obligations, including the arms trade treaty, and and assured him of the Government’s commitment to UN Security Council resolutions. Applications will be keep up the pressure on the Italian authorities. I raised subject to strict examination and transparency, and the issue with Italian Deputy Foreign Minister, Marta controls will be applied concerning extra-purpose use Dassu, when I met her on 15 January. Most recently, the and third-party transfer. Minister for Universities and Science, my right hon. For the UK, the new export control principles may Friend the Member for Havant (Mr Willetts), has written give rise to further opportunities for British defence to the new Italian Minister for Education, Research and companies to engage in co-development and joint Universities, Stefania Giannini, and underlined the production of defence equipment with Japanese partners. importance of finding a solution. This builds on the UK-Japan Defence Equipment Cooperation Framework agreement signed by the Foreign Japan Secretary with his Japanese counterpart in July 2013. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Russia Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will instruct UK diplomats resident in Japan to raise the human Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for rights case of Mr Iwao Hakamda with the Japanese Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what sanctions authorities. [195141] the UK has imposed on Russia since Russian troops entered Crimea. [195231] Mr Swire: British Ministers have made clear to their Japanese counterparts on numerous occasions the UK’s Mr Lidington: The EU Foreign Affairs Council imposed hope that Japan will move to abolish the death penalty. asset freezes and visa bans on 33 named individuals, for This is in line with UK policy towards all countries actions that undermine or threaten the territorial integrity, which continue to use the death penalty. Most recently, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine. The UK has on 12 December 2013, EU ambassadors in Tokyo wrote also frozen military cooperation with Russia, refused a joint letter to the Japanese Foreign Minister on , export licence requests, which may be used by the expressing their concern at executions which took place Russian military, and has postponed a number of planned the same day, and deploring the eight executions authorised Ministerial Summits. Along with other G7 members, by the Minister of Justice since the beginning of that the UK has withdrawn participation in the planned G8 year. Summit in Sochi in June, and will instead take part in a The FCO part-funded a study by the NGO Death G7 meeting in Brussels. Penalty Project in 2013, the conclusions of which argue that aspects of Japan’s use of the death penalty—including Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the sentencing and detention of Mr Hakamada—amount Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions to breaches of its obligations under the International he has had with his Chinese counterpart on Russia’s Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The British actions in Crimea. [195232] embassy in Tokyo has disseminated this report widely in Japan, including to all Members of the Diet, and we Mr Lidington: In addition to ongoing dialogue at continue to raise the points in the report with the official level, the Secretary of State for Foreign and Japanese authorities. The British embassy in Tokyo will Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member 281W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 282W for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has discussed it Mark Simmonds: We have consistently raised our with State Councillor Yang, and the Prime Minister has concerns about the Anti-Homosexuality Act with the raised the situation in Ukraine with President Xi Jinping Ugandan Government at all levels. I most recently and State Councillor Yang Jiechi. discussed the legislation with the Ugandan high commissioner to the UK on 18 March. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is Ukraine taking to ensure that Russia withdraws all of its forces from the Ukrainian border. [195238] Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Lidington: We are concerned by Russian troops Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he next plans on the Ukrainian border. We are clear that Russia has to meet the Ukranian Foreign Minister; and if he will no legal basis or justification to enter Ukrainian territory make a statement. [195088] and call on Russia to withdraw. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Mr Lidington: The Secretary of State for Foreign and Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member has highlighted these concerns to Foreign Minister Lavrov. for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), is in regular contact with the Ukrainian Foreign Minister, Andriy Deshchytsia. Sri Lanka He met him most recently on 31 March, in the margins of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation Foreign Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State Ministers’ meeting. The Government will continue to for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what advice maintain regular contact with the Government of Ukraine his Department has given to the Commonwealth (a) at all levels, to support their efforts to deal with the Secretariat and (b) Chairperson on the attendance of serious economic, political and security challenges that President Rajapaksa at the Glasgow Commonwealth they are facing. Games. [195331] Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Hague: Invitations to the 2014 Commonwealth for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what recent Games in Glasgow are issued by the Commonwealth assessment he has made of the likelihood of a further Games Association of each participating nation. Russian military incursion into eastern Ukraine; The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth [195329] Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for East (2) what recent assessment he has made of the Devon (Mr Swire), discussed attendance at the security situation in Ukraine. [195312] Commonwealth Games and other games related matters during his meeting with the Commonwealth Secretary- Mr Hague: I refer my hon. Friend to the statement I General on 19 March. made to the House on 8 April 2014, Official Report, column 101. We are gravely concerned about the situation Syria in Crimea and in the east of Ukraine where armed groups have seized government buildings in Donetsk, Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Kharkiv and Lugansk. There can be no justification for and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he plans to take this action, which bears all the hallmarks of a Russian to ensure women’s equal and meaningful participation strategy to destabilise Ukraine. Russia should be clear in the Syrian peace process. [195638] that the deliberate escalation of this crisis will bring serious political and economic consequences. Hugh Robertson: It is vital that Syrian women are able to participate fully in decisions about the future of their country. We continue to raise international awareness United Arab Emirates of this important issue and the Foreign Secretary has written to the UN Secretary General, the Joint Special Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Envoy, and a number of Foreign Ministers recommending and Commonwealth Affairs if he will investigate that Syrian women should be able to participate fully in reports that Osama Hussain Al-Najjar has been the peace process. We are providing £200,000 of support tortured while held in custody in the UAE. [195213] to the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom to strengthen the capacity of Syrian women’s Hugh Robertson: We are aware of these reports, and groups to engage in the transition process. The Foreign will continue to monitor reporting of Osama Hussain Secretary was pleased to meet representatives from the Al-Najjar’s case. Syrian Women’s Initiative for Peace and Democracy during Geneva II, and the UK intends to offer further Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign practical support in close co-ordination with UN Women and Commonwealth Affairs when he or officials of his and donors. Department last raised the issue of torture of prisoners in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) with the Uganda government of UAE. [195299]

Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Hugh Robertson: The Government unreservedly Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions condemns the use of torture and urges all countries to he or officials in his Department have had with the comply with international law. Our close relationship High Commissioner of Uganda regarding Uganda’s with the UAE allows us to discuss sensitive issues, Anti-Homosexuality Act. [195406] including human rights concerns, at every level. 283W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 284W

USA EDUCATION

Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for Child Minding Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what support the First Minister of Scotland has received from (a) the Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Education British embassy in Washington and (b) consular what estimate he has made of the number of childminder offices in the US ahead of his upcoming visit to that agencies that will be established in September (a) 2014 country. [195256] and (b) 2015. [195337]

Mr Lidington: The British embassy in Washington, Elizabeth Truss: The childminder agency legislation and the New York consulate, have provided support for is enabling. Childminder agencies will be independent the visit this week of the First Minister of Scotland, of government, and it will be for organisations themselves Alex Salmond, to the US. The consul general in New to decide if and when to enter this market. We have York hosted a lunch at his residence on 7 April, in therefore not estimated the number of childminder association with Scottish Development International agencies that will successfully register with Ofsted in (SDI), for the First Minister and 17 Scottish companies September 2014 or 2015. from the First Minister’s accompanying trade mission, to which key business figures were invited. The British Children: Day Care embassy in Washington worked with the New York consulate to organise port courtesies for the First Minister, Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Education upon arrival in New York, to allow the Scottish Affairs when (a) he and (b) Ministers in his Department last Office (based in the British embassy Washington) to visited a private, voluntary or independent sector childcare greet the First Minister at the airport and expedite setting in an official capacity. [193816] customs and immigration procedures. Elizabeth Truss: Records show that the most recent Western Sahara visits undertaken to PVI provision by Ministers in the Department for Education are as follows. Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign I visited Little Rainbows Day Nursery on 20 March and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on 2014. The Secretary of State for Education, my right human rights monitoring in Western Sahara. [195319] hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), visited Norwood Kennedy Leigh Family Centre Hugh Robertson: The British Government has regular in November 2013. dialogue with the Moroccan authorities, including on It should be noted that we do not keep records of the Western Sahara. We encourage concrete progress towards specific business model of every nursery or childcare improving human rights in Western Sahara, including setting Ministers visit. Therefore, it is possible that effective human rights monitoring. I discussed this most other visits have been undertaken, details of which are recently during my visit to Rabat in March. not held centrally.

Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what assessment he has Education how much his Department has spent on made of the statement of the UN Secretary General in independent survey packs sent from IPSOS Mori and his report S/2013/220 published in April 2013 on the Ecorys to childminders since the childminder agency human rights situation in Western Sahara; and if he pilot began; how many such packs have been sent out will make a statement; [195375] to (a) childminders and (b) parents; in which areas (2) what assessment he has made of the conclusions have such packs been sent out; how many surveys have of the 2013 World Report by Human Rights Watch been returned by (i) childminders and (ii) parents to regarding Morocco’s 2011 constitution and human date; and what results have been received to date on the rights. [195394] likelihood of (A) childminders and (B) parents using a childminder agency. [195335] Hugh Robertson: We read the 2013 World Report from Human Rights Watch and the 2013 United Nations Elizabeth Truss: The budget for the six month long Secretary-General’s annual report with interest. We regularly evaluation of the child minder agency (CMA) trials, discuss with Morocco the importance of full respect for including surveys, is £115,445 exclusive of VAT. The human rights in Western Sahara, including in discussions research as a whole is intended to gather findings from at the UN Security Council, and during my visit to the trials to inform policy development and registration Rabat in March. However, we also welcome the facilitation requirements for CMAs, which will be set out in future by the Government of Morocco of access to the Territory regulations. for United Nations special procedures mandate holders. I recently made a statement warmly welcoming the Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Government of Morocco’s announcement that the process what estimate he has made of average changes to childcare to ratify the OPCAT will be completed imminently. I costs following the establishment of childminder agencies. also welcomed Morocco’s new commitments to investigate [195338] complaints of human rights violations made to the National Council of Human Rights within a fixed three Elizabeth Truss: We are putting in place legislation to month deadline, and the definitive ending of military enable organisations to register as child minder agencies tribunal trials for civilians. (CMAs) in order to increase the number of child minders 285W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 286W available and improve choice and affordability for parents, Jenny Willott: The Department for Business, Innovation as part of reforms to increase the supply of childcare and Skills maintains regular dialogue with the Competition places. and Markets Authority (CMA). If the CMA receives evidence that anti-competitive practices are having an Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for adverse effect on the supply chain for bananas, the Education with reference to early education and Department would consider discussing, as part of its childcare, what estimate he has made of the number of ongoing communications with the CMA, the issues new childcare providers which will enter the market as arising. a result of changes made to regulations under section 7 of the Childcare Act 2006 in section 3.4 of the Banks Consultation on proposed changes to the role of the local authority. [195377] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what correspondence Elizabeth Truss: The Department for Education has there was between (a) the bank acting as financial not made an estimate of the number of new childcare adviser to the Government and (b) banks acting as providers who may choose to enter the childcare market bookrunners, co-ordinators and lead managers (i) with as a result of these reforms. and (ii) on priority investors; and if he will publish any relevant correspondence. [195282]

Michael Fallon: The Department has not seen and BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS does not hold copies of any correspondence between Agriculture: Subsidies Lazard or the Syndicate of banks selling Royal Mail shares and the priority investors. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Exports: Turkey Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer of 12 March 2014, Official Report, columns 595-6W, Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for on public sector: food, whether the Manufacturing Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has Advisory Service is unable to give grant aid to the made of the prospects for UK exporters to Turkey; and farming industry due to state aid restrictions relating to if he will make a statement. [194834] existing common agricultural policy payments. [195018] Michael Fallon: In October 2013, the Foreign and Michael Fallon: The criteria for support from the Commonwealth Office conducted an assessment to identify Manufacturing Advisory Service (MAS) do not include the prospects for UK export expansion to Turkey. The any reference to state aid restrictions related to common report concluded that UK exports to Turkey are projected agricultural policy payments. MAS delivers support to to increase from £4.9 billion in 2011 to £9 billion in manufacturers, and is able to support land based enterprises 2020. The report also identified which sectors provided such as farmers, which have formally diversified their the greatest opportunities and are most critical to growing agricultural business from their product manufacturing UK exports to Turkey. UK Trade & Investment is activities. leading for Government in actively helping UK business Apprentices to maximise opportunities. Gender Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many people who are (a) under 18, (b) 18 to 21 and (c) 22 or over have Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for completed an apprenticeship in each year since 2008. Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has [195016] made of the (a) level of government funding for and (b) effect of research undertaken to date into gender Matthew Hancock: Information on the number of differences in brain development and functioning. apprenticeship achievements by age are published in a [195379] supplementary table to the Statistical First Release: Mr Willetts: The Government has not made an https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/fe-data- library-apprenticeships--2 assessment of the level of funding or effect of research in this area. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/296345/apprenticeship-achievements-by- Grant Thornton geography-learner-demographics-and-sector-subject- area.xlsm Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Bananas Business, Innovation and Skills how many representations he has received relating to concerns over Grant Thornton’s Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for handling of insolvency or bankruptcy cases since 2010. Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to his answer [195094] of 12 March 2014, Official Report, column 220W, on bananas, if he will hold discussions with the Jenny Willott: Prior to the introduction of the Insolvency Competition and Markets Authority on the effect of Service’s Complaints Gateway in June 2013 no central supermarket pricing policies on banana farmers. record was maintained of numbers of complaints made [195363] against individual firms. 287W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 288W

Since June 2013 there have been 794 complaints Mr Willetts: Statistics are not available on applicants received via the Complaints Gateway, of which 70 to part-time higher education courses as there is no related to recorded complaints about insolvency centralised application service for part-time study.However, practitioners from Grant Thornton in respect to formal statistics on entrants to part-time courses at UK Higher insolvency procedures. Education Institutions (HEIs) are available from the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) and have Higher Education: Part-time Education been provided back to the academic year 2004/05 in the table. Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many people have Information on enrolments at UK HEIs in the academic applied for part-time higher education courses each year 2013/14 will become available from HESA in January year since 2004. [195002] 2015.

Entrants1 part-time courses by level of study, academic years 2004/05 to 2012/13, UK Higher Education Institutions 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13

Postgraduate part- 108,920 113,955 116,210 116,320 128,945 132,745 127,925 109,535 102,190 time Undergraduate part 317,785 336,415 341,030 331,950 344,475 335,050 301,490 278,575 199,905 time Total part-time 426,710 450,370 457,245 448,275 473,420 467,795 429,415 388,115 302,095 1 Entrants refer to those students entering their first year of study. Note: Includes entrants from all domiciles (UK, EU and other overseas countries). Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency

Insolvency a Land Registry service delivery company; and how many of those were in favour of the proposals. [194864] Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will publish a Michael Fallon: We are currently considering all summary of the responses to the consultation on consultation responses. The Government response to strengthening the regulatory regime and fee structure the consultation will set out the main issues raised by for insolvency practitioners which closed on 28 March respondents and how the Government intends to address 2014. [194829] these issues.

Jenny Willott: We plan to publish the responses received Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for (unless they may be deemed confidential within the Business, Innovation and Skills whether trade unions Freedom of Information Act’s Code of Practice for will be consulted before a final decision on the future authorities) alongside the Government’s response to status of the Land Registry is made. [194865] the views received.

Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Fallon: The Government consultation on the Business, Innovation and Skills when Ministers in his introduction of a Land Registry service delivery company Department met officials from the Insolvency Service was sent to trade unions. Their responses, together with to discuss insolvency practitioner (a) fees and (b) all other responses, will be considered as part of the partial licences in the last 12 months. [194873] decision making process. Land Registry management will engage with their Jenny Willott: Ministers in the Department for Business, trade unions on changes that may affect staff as a result Innovation and Skills meet with officials from the Insolvency of the consultation. Service on a regular basis to discuss a wide variety of insolvency issues. Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has Land Registry made of the effect on (a) conveyancers and (b) small and medium-sized enterprises of a change in the Land Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Registry’s trading status to a Government Owned Business, Innovation and Skills when he intends to Company and implementation of the Land Registry respond to the consultation on the introduction of a plans for e-Mandation and self-service. [194866] Land Registry service delivery company. [194863] Michael Fallon: The proposals in the consultation on Michael Fallon: We are aiming to publish the Government the introduction of a Land Registry service delivery response within 12 weeks of the consultation closing, in company are being considered against the option of line with the consultation principles. remaining as is, and no decisions will be taken until all responses have been considered. As part of considering Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for the consultation responses Government will be considering Business, Innovation and Skills how many responses he potential effects on interested parties (including has received to the consultation on the introduction of conveyancers and small and medium-sized enterprises). 289W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 290W

The way in which some Land Registry services are Michael Fallon: The UK Government welcomes the delivered will likely change as a result of the implementation flexibility the European Commission proposal offers. of the Business Strategy. Land Registry will engage We will seek to limit the derogation to the single market with customers as and when it introduces new services. as far as possible to what is necessary to allow measures to be taken on lightweight carrier bags. Local Growth Fund Public Houses

Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation and Skills what the total value is of all bids Business, Innovation and Skills what timetable he has received from Local Enterprise Partnerships for the adopted for the introduction of a Statutory Code and Local Growth Fund to date. [195056] Adjudicator in the public house sector. [195037]

Michael Fallon: All 39 Local Enterprise Partnerships Jenny Willott: Between April and June 2013 the submitted their Strategic Economic Plans to Government Government consulted on proposals to establish a statutory on 31 March. All proposals are currently being reviewed Code of Practice and an independent Adjudicator, which and assessed against the published criteria and it is too are aimed at supporting pub tenants. The Government early to know the total call on the fund. However from received over one thousand one hundred written responses an initial review it is clear that the Local Growth Fund to the consultation on pub companies and their tenants is significantly over-subscribed, with bids totalling and over seven thousand responses to the online survey approximately three or four times the amount available. conducted in parallel. We are considering the evidence carefully, to ensure that intervention is both proportionate Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, and targeted, and we intend to publish a Government Innovation and Skills what criteria is used to assess Response to the consultation as soon as we can. bids from local enterprise partnerships for the Local Growth Fund. [195057] Regional Growth Fund

Michael Fallon: The criteria the Government will be Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, using to assess Strategic Economic Plans and bids for Innovation and Skills how much in Regional Growth the Local Growth Fund were published in July 2013. Fund money is currently held by intermediaries; and There are 3 key criteria: ambition and rationale, value how much such money has been allocated (a) in each for money and delivery and risk. The most successful bidding round, (b) to each intermediary and (c) in LEPs will have strong, deliverable Strategic Economic each region. [195284] Plans, evidenced by strong partnership working; robust arrangements for accountability; and effective collaboration Michael Fallon: From the four Regional Growth Fund across Local Enterprise Partnership geography. These (RGF) bidding rounds, £1.5 billion has been allocated LEPs will earn a greater share of the Local Growth to RGF programmes from which grants are made to Fund. small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs.) Of this, £452 million was allocated to 13 endowment Manufacturing Industries programmes in rounds 1 and 2 that received the full payment of their RGF grant upfront. These programmes Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, have since invested £144 million to date in individual Innovation and Skills how many officials currently work projects, and of the remaining £308 million held by in the Government’s Reshore UK service; how many such endowment programmes, a further £154 million is such officials were previously employed in (a) the already committed to specific SME projects. Manufacturing Advisory Service and (b) other Non-endowment programmes are funded a quarter Government Departments or agencies; and where the in advance on evidence of credible pipeline projects. staff of the Reshore UK service are currently located. These programmes have spent £172 million with a further [195285] £151 million of RGF paid to them in the last financial quarter under the expectation it would be spent this Michael Fallon: Reshore UK brings together and quarter. The money held by these programmes is not joins-up existing resources and activities of UK Trade causing any delay to individual projects as businesses & Investment (UKTI) globally, the Manufacturing Advisory claim the money according to their business needs. A Service (MAS) in England and partner bodies in Scotland, table of RGF funding allocated to intermediaries by Wales and Northern Ireland to promote the UK as the each bidding round and region will be placed in the location of choice for businesses considering reshoring; Libraries of the House. it is not an employer in its own right. Riot Control Weapons: Turkey

Plastic Bags Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills when the standard Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for individual export licence granted in May 2011 to Business, Innovation and Skills what the Government’s permit tear gas ammunition to be exported to Turkey policy is on the European Commission’s proposed expired. [195000] amendments to Article 4 of the Packaging and Packaging Waste Directive, relating to reducing Michael Fallon: The licence expired on 4 May 2012. consumption of lightweight, less frequently re-used Temporary export licences are issued for a period of plastic bags with a thickness below 50 microns. [194987] 12 months, with a condition that the goods are returned 291W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 292W to the UK within the validity of the licence. The goods Government’s banking advisers engaged further with a were returned to the UK on 23 May 2011. focused group of 21 well-informed and longer-term investors. Initial indications of potential demand were Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for received from this group; this gave the Government the Business, Innovation and Skills if he will investigate confidence to proceed with announcing the intention to whether any tear gas exported to Turkey under the float on 12 September 2013. standard individual export licence granted in May 2011 was used on demonstrators in Turkey in 2013. [195001] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills for what reasons details Michael Fallon: The licence granted in May 2011 was of arrangements with priority investors in respect of for temporary export of ″inert tear gas/irritant ammunition″ the privatisation of Royal Mail were not published at for exhibition purposes. It was a condition of the licence the time of that privatisation. [195197] that the goods were returned to the UK within 12 months and they were returned on 23 May 2011. The licence did Michael Fallon: The Government did not enter into not authorise the export of any tear gas or ″live″ tear any direct arrangements with investors. All institutional gas ammunition. investors entered into agreements with the underwriting banks (the syndicate) to purchase their allocated shares Royal Mail at the offer price. This is standard practice and applied to all investors. Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Details of individual allocations were not disclosed Innovation and Skills if he will break down the because all investors in Royal Mail—whether individuals £31,400,000 for Royal Mail sale transaction costs in his or institutions—have a legitimate expectation of privacy. Department’s Supplementary Estimates 2013-14. [195034] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many officials Michael Fallon: The Supplementary Estimate included from (a) his Department and (b) its executive agencies a Reserve Claim to cover the cost of managing and and associated public bodies worked on the Royal Mail realising the Royal Mail pension assets in 2013-14 of privatisation. [195201] c£31.4 million. This is in line with the funding arrangement agreed with HM Treasury in May 2011, whereby costs Michael Fallon: The core team working on the sale of over and above £50 million funded by the Department Royal Mail shares was comprised of 17 people. None of for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) would be met the Department’s partner organisations were involved by HM Treasury. These assets transferred to Government in taking forward the initial public offering. from the Royal Mail Pension Plan in April 2012. The Supplementary Estimate also included a Reserve Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Claim to cover the total cost of the transaction estimated Business, Innovation and Skills what the names are of to be around £32.6 million of which £9.2 million is (a) the 16 priority investors selected and (b) the stamp duty, £13.1 million underwriters and intermediaries 21 priority investors under initial consideration by the commission fees, £4.2 million underwriters’ discretionary Government in the privatisation of Royal Mail. fee which has not been paid, and the balance the direct [195210] retail cost. Michael Fallon: All investors in Royal Mail, whether Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for individuals or institutions, have a legitimate expectation Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of of privacy. It would not be appropriate to disclose the shares in Royal Mail allocated to priority investors in list of institutions that were allocated shares in the its recent privatisation are still held by those investors. Initial Public Offering (IPO) or the names of investors [195193] that participated in the investor engagement prior to the IPO. Michael Fallon: As set out in the National Audit Office report, 22% of Royal Mail shares (220.5 million) Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for were sold to priority investors. As set out in the NAO Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer report, at the end of January, over a half of the shares of 16 December 2013, Official Report, column 415, on remain owned by these investors. Some have sold all Royal Mail, over what time period the (a) final price their shares; some sold part of their shareholding; and achieved and (b) aftermarket performance of the others have acquired more shares. shares will be assessed under the benchmarks set by the Government. [195261] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what process the Government Michael Fallon: We have not set a rigid timetable for adopted to (a) identify and (b) select priority investors the assessment of whether the discretionary payment in the recent Royal Mail privatisation. [195196] should be made. As seen in recent days, there is still volatility in Royal Mail’s share price. Michael Fallon: The process of investor engagement commenced 12 months prior to the Initial Public Offering Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for (IPO), in the initial period, Royal Mail’s management Business, Innovation and Skills what (a) discussions met with over 60 high quality institutions to educate and (b) correspondence has taken place between (i) his them about the business. During pilot fishing in early Department, (ii) Royal Mail, (iii) banks acting as September 2013, the management team and the bookrunners, co-ordinators and lead managers and 293W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 294W

(iv) priority investors since the privatisation of Royal If there is evidence of anti-competitive behaviour in Mail took place; and if he will publish any such the groceries retail sector, this should be sent to the relevant correspondence. [195278] Competition and Markets Authority.

Michael Fallon: Since the Initial Public Offering, my Taxation: Environment Protection Department has had discussions with Royal Mail in our continuing role as a minority shareholder in Royal Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Mail. Business, Innovation and Skills how much has been There has been ad hoc contact with the Global disbursed in compensation for the carbon price floor in Co-ordinators primarily to help with inquiries about each month since April 2013. [195488] the IPO but no formal correspondence. Michael Fallon: The Government is waiting for state It is not appropriate to publish correspondence relating aid approval from the European Commission for the to the above on the grounds that it relates to our carbon price floor compensation scheme. We expect to shareholding or has been provided to help develop get a final decision later this month and we are hopeful Government policy and to do so would inhibit the free that we will be able to commence the scheme shortly and frank advice or exchange of views for the purposes thereafter. of internal deliberation. This Department has not had discussions or Timber corresponded with the priority investors. Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how much funding has Business, Innovation and Skills what (a) verbal and been invested by the Green Investment Bank in the (b) contractual agreement was made with priority development of wood-based industries and technologies. investors in relation to their shareholders during the [195346] privatisation of Royal Mail. [195293] Michael Fallon: The Green Investment Bank (GIB) Michael Fallon: No verbal or contractual agreement may invest only in specified green sectors. Its scope to of any description—including future intentions for finance projects involving wood based industries is limited shareholdings—was made between the Government and to projects that use either waste wood recovered from any investor in the Royal Mail Initial Public Offering landfill or wood pellets made from forestry management (IPO). Any suggestion that there was a “gentleman’s waste as biomass fuel to generate renewable energy. agreement” is false. GIB has directly committed £12 million of debt finance to one project that uses waste wood to generate electricity Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for and £100 million of finance towards the conversion of Business, Innovation and Skills what involvement (a) Drax power station to run partly on biomass fuel pellets the bank acting as financial adviser to the Government rather than coal. In addition, the Bank has indirectly and (b) banks acting as bookrunners, co-ordinators committed through its specialist fund managers £37 million and lead managers had in discussions with priority of finance to projects that generate power from recovered investors on the privatisation of Royal Mail. [195294] waste wood and £21 million to projects that generate power from biomass pellets. Information about these Michael Fallon: Together with Royal Mail’s management and other GIB transactions to date can be found on the team, the Government’s independent financial adviser GIB website: (Lazard) and members of the banking syndicate met www.greeninvestmentbank.com with the priority investors throughout the investor engagement process. The banking advisers also met Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for with over 500 institutional investors. The purpose of Business, Innovation and Skills how much regional this engagement was to educate investors about the growth funding has been allocated to LEPs for wood- business and secure indications of potential demand focused initiatives to create jobs in rural areas. [195352] and valuation. Michael Fallon: Agriculture is a restricted sector under State Aid rules, therefore regional growth funds cannot Supermarkets be allocated to Local Enterprise Partnerships for wood- focused initiatives. Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer UK Trade and Investment: Scotland of 12 March 2014, Official Report, column 220W, on bananas, what the evidential basis is for his statement Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for that the grocery retail market is working well for UK Business, Innovation and Skills what support the First consumers. [195378] Minister of Scotland has received from UK Trade & Investment ahead of his upcoming visit to the US. Jenny Willott: The most recent assessment by the [195257] Competition Commission of competition in the grocery retail sector (“The supply of groceries in the UK market Michael Fallon: UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) in investigation”, 2008) found that the sector generally New York and San Francisco have worked closely with worked well for UK consumers and that the main the First Minister’s team in planning arrangements for retailers were not exploiting dominant positions. his visit. 295W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 296W

The Consul-General in New York hosted a lunch at and procedures, particularly in relation to the non-resident his residence on 7 April 2014 in association with Scottish parent’s ability to make payment. Development International (SDI) and Scottish Council As a result of increased focus on gaining payment for Development and Industry (SCDI) for the First compliance prior to considering commitment proceedings, Minister and 17 Scottish companies in the accompanying the volume of commitment applications made remains trade mission, to which key business figures in the US lower than during the period preceding the moratorium. were invited. The Agency is however continuing to make both new On 8 April 2014 SDI and mission delegates attended commitment applications and applications where the a UKTI briefing discussion on marketing in the US. parent has defaulted on the terms of a commitment Mission companies will have access to meeting rooms sentence where this seems the enforcement measure for one-to-one meetings throughout the week, as well as most likely to secure payment compliance. UKTI staff who will be available to discuss business opportunities in the US market. UKTI staff are also Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for supporting a number of events during the week, including Work and Pensions in how many cases the Child the US office launch on 5 April 2014, of Scottish based Support Agency has started committal proceedings in Smarter Grid Solutions and other events where mission each of the last five years. [195053] delegates will be present. For the visit of the Scottish Government’s External Steve Webb: Pursuant to my written answer on 20 Affairs and International Development Minister, Huzma January 2014, Official Report, columns 42-43W,information Yousaf, UKTI contributed to the guest list for Mr Yousaf on the number of cases in which the Child Support s Scotland Week reception in San Francisco. UKTI also Agency has started committal proceedings is only readily contributed to energy sector invitees for the World available from 2010. The following table shows the Trade Centre-Northern California breakfast event for number of cases where committal proceedings were the Minister, as requested by the World Trade Centre. started for each of the last three complete financial years and the current year to date: UK Trade and Investment: Turkey Financial year Committal proceedings started

Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for April 2010 - March 2011 3,270 Business, Innovation and Skills how many UK Trade & April 2011 - March 2012 3,560 Investment staff were based in Turkey in (a) May 2010, April 2012 - March 2013 300 [194830] (b) December 2013 and (c) March 2014. April 2013 - December 2013 10 Notes: Michael Fallon: In March 2014 there were 20 people 1. Following a Court Of Appeal decision in October 2012, a review of working on trade and investment (18.9 full-time equivalent the commitment to prison process was carried out to ensure it FTE) in Turkey. This figure was not materially different complied with the terms of the judgement given in that case. Whilst in either May 2010 or December 2013. doing so, applications for commitment to prison were not brought before the court. Procedures resumed from March 2013. 2. Data sourced from the Tallyman Informer system. 3. Data rounded to the nearest 10. WORK AND PENSIONS Housing Benefit

Children: Day Care Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much local authorities in (a) St Albans, Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) Hertfordshire, (c) the East of England and (d) the Work and Pensions what steps his Department has UK have returned to his Department in unused taken to provide families with financial assistance in discretionary housing payment funding since 2011; and caring for a child; and if he will make a statement. what steps he is taking to ensure that such funds are [194887] targeted towards those most in need. [195039]

Mike Penning: The Department provides families Esther McVey: The Department has responsibility with financial assistance in caring for a child through for the funding of discretionary housing payments (DHP) disability living allowance, carer’s allowance and the in Great Britain, but not the UK. The following table disability and carer premiums in the income-related shows the amounts of unused DHPs returned to the benefits. Department since 2011 for the respective areas. The figures for 2013-14 will be available in due course once Children: Maintenance the information has been collated from local authorities.

Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for Local authority area Under spend since 2011 (£) Work and Pensions what recent assessment he has St Albans 18,717 made of the progress of the Child Support Agency in Hertfordshire 72,108 restarting committal proceedings since the end of the Eastern England 1,494,137 moratorium. [195052] Great Britain 20,982,679 Steve Webb: Following the initial review of its The Department provides local authorities with a commitment to prison processes the Child Support guidance manual and good practice guide to aide them Agency has continued to develop and evolve its processes in the administration of the DHP scheme. This has 297W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 298W recently been updated following informal consultation appropriately and (b) outcome of independent reviews with stakeholder groups and local authority practitioners. undertaken into sites making exceptional numbers of The new guidance encourages councils to make longer referrals of clients to decision makers. [195147] term awards where appropriate to those with ongoing needs. Esther McVey: It is for local and district management Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing to ensure Jobcentre Plus staff apply labour market conditionality fairly and consistently, taking into account individual claimant circumstances; and to make sure Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State referrals to decision makers are appropriate and of for Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number consistently good quality. of children in poverty affected by the under-occupancy penalty since its introduction; and if he will make a Independent reviews undertaken last year suggested that referral rates were appropriate. Findings from those statement. [195382] reviews are fed back into operations to help inform Esther McVey: This information can be provided ongoing monitoring and delivery. only at a disproportionate cost. This Government has made good progress in tackling Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for the root causes of child poverty and has recently published Work and Pensions what average time is taken to re-imburse the 2014-17 draft child poverty strategy for consultation a jobseeker’s allowance claimant who has been wrongly which outlines the actions we are taking. The latest sanctioned. [195341] figures from 2011-12 show that 2.3 million children (17%) are in relative income poverty-down 300,000 Esther McVey: We do not hold any information that since 2009-10. These are the lowest levels since the just captures the average time it takes to reimburse a mid-1980s. The number of children in workless households jobseeker’s allowance claimant who has been wrongly has fallen by more than 270,000 since 2010, which is key sanctioned. to driving down poverty. Once a decision is made that a sanction is no longer Jobcentre Plus appropriate the decision maker notifies our JSA claims maintenance teams. They identify these decisions as priority work and endeavour to input the revised decision Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work into our system and pay any benefit due as soon as and Pensions what disability awareness training is provided possible. For JSA our aim is to clear 90% of changes in to disability employment advisers in Jobcentre Plus. six days. Based on year to date information, up to [194922] February 2014, we are achieving 94.9% on JSA. Esther McVey: DWP staff have access to the ‘Raising the Game on Disability’ Seminar, which builds disability Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for knowledge and confidence in working with disabled Work and Pensions when his Department plans to people. The ‘Hidden Impairment Toolkit’training provides publish revised statistics on the number of people who practical advice and guidance on how best to support have successfully appealed a sanction decision. [195345] individuals, into employment. This approach enables the anticipation of reasonable adjustments at appropriate Esther McVey: DWP statisticians identified an error stages of the individual’s journey to work. in the JSA sanctions appeal outcomes data. In line with For all disability employment advisers (DEA) additional normal practice for official statistics the Department learning appropriate to this specialist area has been has withdrawn this particular set of information. The designed in conjunction with DWP occupational data will be made available again as soon as possible psychologists to enable DEA’s to provide effective support pending investigations by DWP statisticians who will, if to people with particularly complex health-related needs. necessary, make corrections to this data. For further information see here: Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Work https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/jobseekers- and Pensions what assessment he has made of the allowance-sanctions extent of the availability of free telephones in jobcentres for jobseekers to contact officials within his Department. [195404] Jobseekers Allowance: Rossendale

Esther McVey: Jobcentres provide face to face support for claimants. There is also controlled access to telephones Jake Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work for claimants who need to contact officials in this and Pensions how many people normally resident in Department over the phone. Rossendale and Darwen constituency were prosecuted for offences relating to fraudulent claims for jobseeker’s Jobseeker’s Allowance allowance in each of the last five years. [194836]

Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Esther McVey: The information requested is not readily and Pensions pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member available because the data are not collated in a format for Birkenhead, of 18 November 2013, Official Report, for Rossendale and Darwen constituency only. This column 674W,on jobseeker’s allowance, what assessment information could only be provided by examining individual he has made of the (a) monitoring system which checks investigation files which would incur disproportionate that sanctions by Jobcentre Plus staff are applied cost. 299W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 300W

Remploy policies are compared with what might have happened if the previous Government’s policies had continued Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work into the future without any further fiscal consolidation. and Pensions why Remploy Employment Services is The Government currently has no plans to undertake now called Remploy; and whether his Department will a review or change the decision on cumulative impact continue to fund employment services provided by assessments. Remploy. [194877] Social Security Benefits: Disqualification Esther McVey: Remploy has formally always existed as a single company, Remploy Ltd. Remploy Ltd managed Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for the operation of its business through two different Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 25 March arms: Remploy Enterprise Businesses, the factories, and 2014, Official Report, column 986W, on social security Remploy Employment Services. Following the completion benefits, what the total amount of benefit withheld as a of Remploy’s commercial process to exit its factory result of sanctions was in each of the last two years. businesses it has decided that there is no longer a need [195010] to differentiate between the businesses, and it is now using Remploy only, as previously. Esther McVey: The Department does not estimate The Department agrees Remploy funding and the amount of benefit withheld as a result of benefit performance targets, including Work Choice job outcome sanctions. The sanctions regime is designed to ensure targets, on an annual basis. Remploy’s performance claimants comply with their requirements in order to targets for 2013-14 were published on 31 October 2013, move off benefits and into work. Official Report, column 60WS, by written ministerial The answer of 25 March 2013, Official Report, column statement confirming publication of Remploy annual 986W,on social security benefits, contained a calculation report and accounts 2013. Remploy performance targets of the amount of jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) that and funding for 2014-15 will be published alongside the claimants would have received if they had continued to 2014 accounts later this year. be on benefit for the length of a fixed sanction. This is not the same as the amount withheld as a result of Social Security Benefits: Disability sanctions. As the previous answer made clear, it is not possible Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to robustly estimate the actual amounts withheld as we and Pensions if he will review his decision not to carry do not know what would have happened in the absence out a cumulative impact assessment on the effect of of sanctions. For example, of claimants who leave benefit welfare reform on people with disability. [194889] during a sanction - some may have left irrespective of the sanction being applied, and some may have left Mike Penning: The Government regularly produces because of the sanction. Furthermore, the previous analysis of the cumulative impact of all coalition changes, calculation did not include sanctions for employment including welfare, on households across the income support allowance sanctions, income support for lone distribution. This information is produced by the Treasury parents sanctions or JSA varied length sanctions and and is published alongside every Budget and Autumn disentitlements as reliable data on the length of sanction Statement, in the interests of transparency. The previous or disentitlement is not readily available. Finally, the Government did not provide this type of analysis. The calculation did not net the figures for hardship payments. most recent update was published with the Budget on 19 March 2014, and can be found using the following Social Security Benefits: Young People link: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Work attachment_data/file/293738/ and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 27 March budget_2014_distributional_analysis.pdf 2014, Official Report, columns 348-49W, on social Distributional analysis is provided for the whole security benefits: young people, if he will publish any population on the basis of household income and household information relevant to the original question that is expenditure. However this is not disaggregated to the available at proportionate cost. [194968] level of household characteristics such as disability status or lower level geographies. No organisation is Esther McVey: Information on jobseeker’s allowance able to do this robustly. severe hardship decisions for 16 and 17-year-olds is This analysis estimates the effect of coalition measures provided in the following tables but please be aware that from all fiscal events from the Budget in June 2010 to it does not relate solely to estrangement. Information the Budget in 2014. It also includes changes that were on income support and employment support allowance announced before the Budget in June 2010 that have is not available. Similarly it is not possible to disaggregate been implemented by this Government. Current coalition appeals information on an age basis.

JSA 16/17-year-olds claims to severe hardship, 2013 Apr May Jun Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb 2013 2013 2013 Jul 2013 2013 2013 2013 2013 2013 2014 2014

JSA 16/17- 1,017 939 797 832 681 654 661 712 700 646 661 year-old claims 301W Written Answers9 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 302W

JSA 16/17-year-olds claims to severe hardship, 2013 Apr May Jun Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb 2013 2013 2013 Jul 2013 2013 2013 2013 2013 2013 2014 2014

JSA 16/17- 762 738 597 641 496 485 508 553 565 459 523 year-old severe hardship awarded JSA 16/17- 74.93 78.59 74.91 77.04 72.83 74.16 76.85 77.67 80.71 71.05 79.12 year-old severe hardship claims % awarded JSA 16/17- 255 201 200 191 185 169 153 159 135 187 138 year-old severe hardship refused

Apr May Jun July Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar 2012 2012 2012 2012 2012 2012 2012 2012 2012 2013 2013 2013

JSA 16/17- 1,341 1,589 1,164 1,365 1,211 966 1,125 1,167 1,168 1,092 1,211 987 year-old claims JSA 16/17- 1,056 1,248 900 1,068 910 745 834 925 902 816 944 768 year-old severe hardship awarded JSA 16/17- 78.75 78.54 77.32 78.24 75.14 77.12 74.13 79.26 77.23 74.73 77.95 77.81 year-old severe hardship claims % awarded JSA 16/17- 285 341 264 297 301 221 291 242 266 276 267 219 year-old severe hardship refused Source: Management Information System programme (MISP).

Universal Credit offices in (i) Rossendale and (ii) Darwen in the latest period for which figures are available. [194839] John Hemming: To ask the Secretary of State for Esther McVey: We do not advertise in jobcentres, all Work and Pensions when he plans to implement a vacancies are now advertised on Universal Jobmatch universal credit sanctions scheme to replace the current System, which was introduced in November 2012. The jobseeker’s allowance and other sanctions scheme. system does not provide data at jobcentre level, as all [195032] vacancies notified to the system are available to ail users. Esther McVey: In 2012 revised sanctions regimes Work Programme introduced into jobseeker’s allowance and employment and support allowance moved us towards the universal Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for credit system, with the same value of sanction across all Work and Pensions how many complaints have been benefits and the same duration of sanctions at medium made about the Work Programme on the grounds of and high levels. the Disability Discrimination Act 2005 since June 2011. [195342] We continue to monitor sanctions closely and consider opportunities for continuous improvement. Esther McVey: The Department requires providers to work directly with individuals to resolve complaints Vacancies: Lancashire about their service. Records of complaints received are retained by providers. If the individual is unhappy with the response to Jake Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work their complaint from the provider they can take their and Pensions how many (a) full-time and (b) part-time complaint directly to the Independent Case Examiner’s employment vacancies were advertised in Jobcentre Plus Service. 3MC Ministerial Corrections9 APRIL 2014 Ministerial Corrections 4MC Ministerial Corrections HEALTH Livestock: Diseases Wednesday 9 April 2014 Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many instances of (a) pneumonia, (b) septic pneumonia, (c) Pericarditis, (d) Septic Pericarditis, (e) Peritonitis, (f) septic peritonitis, (g) Oedema, (h) Emaciation, (i) Bruising or trauma, (j) Abscesses in EDUCATION offal, (k) Abscesses in carcases, (l) Pyaemia, (m) animals with septicaemia, (n) Animals with tumours, (o) Hydronephrosis, (p) Nephritis and septic nephritis, Teachers: Job Satisfaction (q) Lymphadenitis, (r) Tuberculosis, (s) Erysipelas in pigs, (t) Steatosis, (u) Actinobacillous and (v) Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Actinomycosus in red meat animals have been identified Education what steps he has taken to assess the morale at official post mortem inspection and prevented from entering the food chain by officials working for an on of teachers. [191763] behalf of the FSA since 1 April 2012. [194202] [Official Report, 17 March 2014, Vol. 577, c. 388W.] [Official Report, 1 April 2014, Vol. 578, c. 573W.] Letter of correction from David Laws: Letter of correction from Jane Ellison: An error has been identified in the written answer An error has been identified in the written answer given given to the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) to the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) on 17 March 2014. on 1 April 2014. The full answer given was as follows: The full answer given was as follows: Jane Ellison: The following quantity of conditions Mr Laws: We have enormous respect for teachers and have been identified in red meat animals at official post the vital role they play. We continue to support teachers mortem inspection and prevented from entering the by reducing unnecessary bureaucracy. We trust them to food chain by officials working for and on behalf of the use their professional judgment and we reward good Food Standards Agency (FSA) since April 2012: quality teaching, including through pay flexibilities which Some conditions are not recorded by the FSA. The allow heads to pay good teachers more. list of conditions for cattle, sheep, goats, pigs and A recent survey for the Times Educational Supplement poultry were created following expert working group found that teachers generally feel positive about the workshops for each species over the last five years. work they do. Last year, the Varkey GEMS foundation’s Members of the workshops included stakeholders from Global Teacher Status Index found levels of public the Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs, respect for the teaching profession in England were Animal Health, EBLEX, BPEX, private veterinarians, higher than in Finland or Germany. industry vets, FSA, Association of Meat Inspectors. It is very encouraging that so many good people are The data for sheep, goats, deer and horses is from choosing a career in teaching. 74% of new teachers now April 2012 to December 2013, all other species is April have a 2:1 or a first degree—the highest ever recorded. 2012 to March 2014. 14% of Oxford graduates go into teaching, and the annual Graduate Market in 2014 report identified Teach Condition Total number identified First as Britain’s biggest graduate recruiter. (a) Pneumonia 2,799,461 The correct answer should have been: (b) Septic pneumonia 1,281 (c) Pericarditis 594,408 Mr Laws: We have enormous respect for teachers and (d) Septic Pericarditis No data held the vital role they play. We continue to support teachers (e) Peritonitis 466,518 by reducing unnecessary bureaucracy. We trust them to (f) Septic peritonitis 6,339 use their professional judgment and we reward good (q) Oedema As below quality teaching, including through pay flexibilities which (h) Emaciation/Generalised 24,288 allow heads to pay good teachers more. Oedema (i) Bruising or trauma 197,187 A recent survey for the Times Educational Supplement (j) Abscesses in offal 294,580 found that teachers generally feel positive about the (k) Abscesses in carcases 199,435 work they do. Last year, the Varkey GEMS foundation’s (j) and (k) Abscesses 451,461 Global Teacher Status Index found levels of public (l) Pyaemia 33,414 respect for the teaching profession in England were (m) Animals with septicaemia 6,069 higher than in Finland or Germany. (n) Animals with tumours 1,490 It is very encouraging that so many good people are (o) Hydronephrosis 64,819 choosing a career in teaching. 74% of new teachers now (p) Nephritis and septic No data held have a 2:1 or a first degree—the highest ever recorded. nephritis 14% of Oxford graduates enter the education sector, and (q) Lymphadenitis No data held the annual Graduate Market in 2014 report identified (r) Tuberculosis 27,901 Teach First as Britain’s biggest graduate recruiter. (s) Erysipelas in pigs 9,908 5MC Ministerial Corrections9 APRIL 2014 Ministerial Corrections 6MC

Condition Total number identified Condition Total number identified

(t) Steatosis No data held (b) Septic pneumonia 1,281 (u) Actinobacillous No data held (c) Pericarditis 594,408 (v) Actinomycosus No data held (d) Septic Pericarditis No data held Note: (e) Peritonitis 466,518 (j) and (k) Abscesses relates to sheep, goats, deer and horses. This (f) Septic peritonitis 6,339 has been recoded separately as the data is not recorded by either (q) Oedema As below offal or carcase. (h) Emaciation/Generalised 24,288 The correct answer should have been: Oedema (i) Bruising or trauma 197,187 Jane Ellison: The following quantity of conditions (j) Abscesses in offal 294,580 have been identified in red meat animals at official post (k) Abscesses in carcases 199,435 mortem inspection and prevented from entering the food chain by officials working for and on behalf of the (j) and (k) Abscesses 451,461 Food Standards Agency (FSA) since April 2012: (l) Pyaemia 33,414 (m) Animals with septicaemia 6,069 Some conditions are not recorded by the FSA. The (n) Animals with tumours 1,490 list of conditions for cattle, sheep, goats, pigs and (o) Hydronephrosis No data held poultry were created following expert working group (p) Nephritis and septic No data held workshops for each species over the last five years. nephritis Members of the workshops included stakeholders from (q) Lymphadenitis No data held the Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs, (r) Tuberculosis 27,901 Animal Health, EBLEX, BPEX, private veterinarians, (s) Erysipelas in pigs 9,908 industry vets, FSA, Association of Meat Inspectors. (t) Steatosis No data held The data for sheep, goats, deer and horses is from (u) Actinobacillous No data held April 2012 to December 2013, all other species is April (v) Actinomycosus No data held 2012 to March 2014. Note: (j) and (k) Abscesses relates to sheep, goats, deer and horses. This Condition Total number identified has been recoded separately as the data is not recorded by either offal or carcase. (a) Pneumonia 2,799,461 ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 9 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 247 INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—continued Afghanistan Election (Women)...... 247 Tackling Dementia...... 253 Aid Dependency and Job Creation ...... 252 Topical Questions ...... 254 Development Aid...... 254 Development Framework (Health) ...... 248 GAVI Alliance ...... 249 PRIME MINISTER ...... 257 Palestinian Authority ...... 250 Engagements...... 257 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Wednesday 9 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 11WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 17WS Local and Mayoral Election Guidance (European Scotland Analysis (Energy) ...... 17WS Parliament) ...... 11WS UK Downstream Oil Sector...... 17WS Markets for Government Services ...... 11WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 18WS Countering Terrorism ...... 18WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 12WS Local Planning and Renewable Energy TRANSPORT ...... 19WS Developments ...... 12WS HS2 (Property Compensation)...... 19WS

DEFENCE...... 14WS TREASURY ...... 11WS Glasgow Commonwealth Games (Call-out Equitable Life Payment Scheme...... 11WS Order) ...... 14WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 22WS Office for Nuclear Regulation ...... 22WS EDUCATION...... 14WS Single-tier Pension (Contingencies Fund Qualifications Reform...... 14WS Advance)...... 22WS PETITIONS

Wednesday 9 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH...... 5P Heanor Memorial Hospital (Derbyshire)...... 5P Proposed Closure of Mallins Doctors Surgery (West Bromwich) ...... 6P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 9 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 264W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Crimes of Violence...... 264W Local Growth Fund ...... 289W Homicide ...... 264W Manufacturing Industries ...... 289W Police: Offenders ...... 265W Plastic Bags...... 289W Public Houses ...... 290W Regional Growth Fund ...... 290W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 285W Riot Control Weapons: Turkey ...... 290W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 285W Royal Mail ...... 291W Apprentices...... 285W Supermarkets ...... 293W Bananas ...... 285W Taxation: Environment Protection ...... 294W Banks...... 286W Timber ...... 294W Exports: Turkey ...... 286W UK Trade and Investment: Scotland...... 294W Gender...... 286W UK Trade and Investment: Turkey...... 295W Grant Thornton...... 286W Higher Education: Part-time Education...... 287W Insolvency...... 287W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 236W Land Registry ...... 287W Council Tax: Floods...... 236W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— continued continued Council Tax: Lancaster ...... 236W United Arab Emirates ...... 282W Families: Disadvantaged ...... 236W USA...... 283W Local Government Finance ...... 237W Western Sahara ...... 283W Local Government: Publicity ...... 238W New Towns: Ebbsfleet...... 238W HEALTH...... 258W Official Hospitality ...... 238W Abortion ...... 258W Redundancy...... 239W Antibiotics: Drug Resistance...... 258W Rents...... 240W Dementia ...... 258W Wind Power ...... 240W Dental Services: West Midlands...... 260W Epilepsy ...... 260W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 256W Heart Diseases: North East...... 261W BBC ...... 256W Hereditary Diseases ...... 261W BBC: USA ...... 256W Palliative Care: Children ...... 261W Local Broadcasting: Television ...... 256W Poliomyelitis...... 261W Private Sector...... 256W Psoriasis...... 262W Rugby: World Cup ...... 257W Tate Modern ...... 257W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 273W Work Programme...... 257W Azelle Rodney Inquiry ...... 273W Hillsborough Stadium...... 273W DEFENCE...... 234W Human Trafficking ...... 274W Afghanistan ...... 234W Human Trafficking: Victim Support Schemes ...... 274W Aircraft Carriers ...... 235W Riot Control Weapons ...... 274W Armed Forces: Complaints ...... 235W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 235W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 275W DSG Ashchurch...... 235W Climate Change: IPCC Report...... 276W War Graves: Padstow ...... 236W Developing Countries: Females...... 276W Education: Children with Disabilities...... 276W EDUCATION...... 284W FGM and Forced Marriage ...... 275W Child Minding ...... 284W Garment Industry: Bangladesh...... 275W Children: Day Care ...... 284W Nigeria...... 277W Palestinians ...... 277W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 240W Sri Lankan Tamils: Poverty...... 276W Coal: Imports...... 240W Syria...... 276W UK Coal ...... 241W Wind Power ...... 241W JUSTICE...... 242W Aspire to Change ...... 242W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Crime: Farms...... 243W AFFAIRS...... 265W Crimes of Violence...... 243W Anaerobic Digestion ...... 265W Criminal Injuries Compensation ...... 244W Angling: Wales...... 265W Fraud: Social Security Benefits ...... 244W Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Homicide ...... 247W Agency...... 266W Legal Aid Scheme ...... 247W Ash Dieback Disease ...... 266W Magistrates Courts...... 248W Biodiversity...... 266W Oakwood Prison ...... 248W Dogs: Imports...... 267W Prison Accommodation ...... 248W Environment Protection...... 267W Prisoners ...... 248W Environment Protection: Business...... 267W Prisoners: Repatriation ...... 250W Flood Control...... 268W Prisons ...... 253W Fracking...... 269W Public Expenditure...... 253W Members: Correspondence ...... 269W Universal Credit...... 253W Nurseries...... 270W Packaging ...... 270W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 242W Plastic Bags...... 271W Cross Border Co-operation: Republic of Ireland ... 242W Poultry ...... 272W Rabbits...... 272W SCOTLAND...... 263W Water Companies...... 273W Social Rented Housing...... 263W Trade Unions ...... 263W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 277W Working Hours ...... 263W Bahrain ...... 277W Central African Republic ...... 278W TRANSPORT ...... 231W Christianity...... 278W Cycling: Greater London ...... 231W Greece...... 278W Fuels: Prices...... 231W Italy ...... 279W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 232W Japan...... 279W Nurseries...... 232W Russia ...... 280W Parking: Pedestrian Areas ...... 232W Sri Lanka ...... 281W Railways: Brighton...... 233W Syria...... 281W Road Traffic: Greater London ...... 233W Uganda ...... 281W Roads: Accidents ...... 234W Ukraine...... 282W Rolling Stock: North East...... 234W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 254W WORK AND PENSIONS—continued National Institute for Medical Research ...... 254W Housing Benefit ...... 296W National Insurance Contributions ...... 254W Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing ...... 297W Revenue and Customs...... 254W Jobcentre Plus ...... 297W Taxation: Self-employed...... 255W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 297W Unpaid Taxes...... 255W Jobseekers Allowance: Rossendale ...... 298W Remploy...... 299W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 255W Social Security Benefits: Disability...... 299W Females: New Businesses ...... 255W Social Security Benefits: Disqualification...... 300W Social Security Benefits: Young People ...... 300W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 295W Universal Credit...... 301W Children: Day Care ...... 295W Vacancies: Lancashire ...... 301W Children: Maintenance ...... 295W Work Programme...... 302W MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS

Wednesday 9 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. EDUCATION...... 3MC HEALTH...... 4MC Teachers: Job Satisfaction...... 3MC Livestock: Diseases ...... 4MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Wednesday 16 April 2014

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CONTENTS

Wednesday 9 April 2014

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 247] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for International Development Prime Minister

Agricultural Accidents (Records) [Col. 269] Motion for leave to introduce Bill—(Bill Wiggin)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Finance (No. 2) Bill [Col. 272] Further considered in Committee

Petition [Col. 384]

Abortion (Disability) [Col. 386] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Personal Independence Payments (Wales) [Col. 63WH] Shared Services Connected Ltd [Col. 89WH] Rural Crime [Col. 97WH] Income Distribution and Taxation [Col. 120WH] Work Capability Assessment [Col. 127WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 11WS]

Petitions [Col. 5P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 231W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Corrections [Col. 3MC]