2722 CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD-HOUSE. MARCH 14 Shiras Morris, Jr., of Connecticut. lution 76, to authorize the Postmaster General to withhold the George W. Renchard, of Michigan. awarding of star-route contracts for a period of 45 days. Paul J. Reveley, of Connecticut. I may say that the Committee on the Post Office and Post W. Garland Richardson, of Virginia. Roads have had this under consideration and are unanimous Halleck L. Rose, of Nebraska. in their conclusion. Livingston Satterthwaite, of Pennsylvania. The SPEAKER. The Chair is informed that this joint reso- Francis Bowden Stevens, of New York. lution is somewhat in the nature of an emergency matter. Tyler Thompson, of New York. Mr. WHELCHEL . . It is, Mr. Speaker. Robert F. Woodward, of Minnesota. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the joint resolution. The Clerk read as follows: CONFIRMATION Senate Joint Resolution 76 Resolved, etc., That the Postmaster General is authorized and Executive nomination confirmed by the Senate March 14 directed to withhold the awarding of star-route contracts for which (legislative day of March 13), 1939 bids have been received in the third contract section for a period CIVIL AERONAUTICS AUTHORITY of 45 days after March 7, 1939. C: B. Allen to be a member of the Air Safety Board within Mr. MASON. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object, the Civil Aeronautics Authority. and I shall not, because I was in the committee when the bill was ordered out, will not the gentleman give us a brief ex planation of what constitutes the emergency? HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES · Mr; WHELCHEL; - I shall be glad to. Mr. Speaker, in 1937 a bill was presented to the Congress TUESDAY, MARCH 14, . 1939 permitting the · Post Office Department at its discretion to The House met at 12 o'clock noon. continue star-route contracts beyond the period of their ter Bishop Edwin Holt Hughes, senior bishop of the Methodist mination. This bill passed both Houses of Congress in 1937, Episcopal Church in the United States, . Washington, D. c., but I believe it was vetoed by the President. This ..same offered the following prayer: question again presents itself. As appears from the face of the resolution the time on these contracts has expired. God, be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to This resolution simply directs that 45 days be granted for shine upon us, that Thy way may be known upon earth, Thy the purpose of going into this question and giving it proper saving health among all nations. Let the people praise Thee, consideration. 0 God; let all the people praise Thee. Then shall the earth A similar House resolution calls for 60 days. The Senate yield her increase; and God, even our own God, shall bless us. resohition calls for 45 days. I ask that the Senate resolution God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear be substituted for the House resolution and that it be him. adopted. · 0 Lord, make our country a blessing to itself, a blessing to The SPEAKER. .Is there objection to the request of the all the men and women and children that dwell within its gentleman from Georgia for the immediate consideration of borders, a blessing· to ·men everyWhere, so that the statue the Senate resolution? called Liberty Enlightening the World may be not only a There was no objection. symbol but a glorious fact. Make our Jerusalem to be "the The joint resolution was read a third time and passed, and joy of the whole earth." To this end and to all the purposes a motion to reconsider and a similar House resolution To these must be added the "waiting list" category, because Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairm~n. a parliamentary inquiry. it is obvious that while people now on the rolls are being dis The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. charged no people can be employed from the "waiting list." Mr. RICH. The first paragraph of the bill has been read, I am of the opinion that States, counties, and municipali Mr. Chairman. My inquiry is, Is it permissible now to strike ties are doing, in the overwhelming majority of ~ases, all that out the last word of the first paragraph? their finances will permit to meet the situation. The CHAffiMAN. The gentleman may make such a mo- I further believe that, with few exceptions, those who are ~~~~~ . . employed are actually in need and are not receiving more Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last than they should in the form of Federal assistance. word. It is the obvious duty of the Chief Executive to point out the Mr. Chairman, this is the first paragraph of the Interior need which exists and to give all possible factual information. Department appropriation bill for the year 1940. You have This I have attempted to do in order that the legislative just heard the message of the President of the United States branch of the Government, in which the final decision and full stating there are more people· on the unemployment list responsibility necessarily rests, may act. today than there were sometime ago, and that the list is 'Because it has been alleged that I would be satisfied if no gradually growing longer. An admission of his inability further appropriation were made for the coming 3. months, I to cope witb. the unemployment situation after 6 years of his feel that, in justice to myself, I must make it clear that I am administration and going in debt $20,000,000,000. This morn not sending this message to the Congress merely for t~e ing's paper revealed the fact that the administration will purpose of going through motions. not ask to increase the national debt limit-a wise decision For more than 6 years it has been the definite policy of the at this time. This statement as being made yesterday by President and the Congress that needy persons, out of work, Sec~etary Morgenthau in discussing the_question of increas should not be allowed to starve; that it was an obligation of ing the national debt "ceiling": · the Federal Government to give work to those able to. work It should be increased, he said, but Congress will have to take and an obligation of State and local government and of private the inltiative if it 1s done. He remarked, incidentally, that the way charities to take care of those needy 'persons who are unable to economize--if Congress is bent on economy-is to cut appro to work. · priations instead of voting huge sums and then refusing to give That policy, I am more than ever ~onftdent, is right. It the Treasury authority to spend the money. . should not be abandoned now. We are now starting the consideration of the Interior It is wholly within the right of any and all of us to study Department appropriation bill for 1940 for the fiscal year and work for the greater efficiency of government. For beginning July 1 next. If the responsibility, as _was stated several years infinite study has been given to the problems by the Secretary of the Treasury, belongs to the Congress, of relief in all its forms; additional studies are proper. then it is time for Congress to act. The President says the But the Government of the United States is faced today responsibility belongs to you. We have for the past 5 years with a condition and not a theory. The insuftlciency of the increased practically every appropriation above .what it was money appropriated will compel the Administrator to dis the year before. We are increasing this b111 $15,000,000 over charge about a million and a quarter actual workers in the what it was last year. This cannot go on. Something must immediate future. be done. The responsibility is yours, and what are you going I cannot bring myself to believe that these discharged men to do about it? There are many provisions in this bill to and women will contribute to the prosperity of the United which we are going to offer amendments to strike out and States, nor do I believe that the merchants and landlords cut down. If you are going to ·assume your responsibility, . they are now dealing with will become more prosperous you will help us cut this bill at least $40,000,000. The .other when their trade ceases. day the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. WooDRUM] said, "What Therefore, the responsibility for the situation in.which all are you going to do with the Interior appropriation bill?" of these people will :find themselves during the coming 3 I say to you, I tried my best to cut this bill down below what months rests of necessity within the decision of the Congress it now is before . it came intO the Committee, but without of the United States. success. We are here before you as the Co~gress today. W~ F'RANKLIN D. RoosEVELT. are going to ask you to assume your responsibility. We are THE WHITE HOUSE, March 14, 1939. going to ask you -to help us to cut thiS bill down. Can we expect your assistance? EXTENSION OF REMARKS May I say I am not any more interested in cutting down Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous con,;. the Interior appropriation bill than any other appropriation sent to extend my own remarks in the RECORD and include bill. I am interested in cutting down every appropriation. therein a short quotation relative to the Philippines. bill. Do not get me wrong on that. There is not a bill that The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the comes before the Congress in connection with which we have gentleman from Oklahoma? the responsibility of making an appropriation, as 'was stated There was no objection. by the Secretary of the Treasury, on which we should not Mr. COFFEE of Washington. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani have the red blood in our veins and the backbone. to say we mous consent to extend my own remarks in the REcoRD and are going to operate ·the Federal Government on a good, include therein a letter from a resident of my State and sound, and sensible business basis. That is your responsi: my reply thereto. bility, and that is my responsibility. Are we going to rise to The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the the occasion? It is up to you, and it is up to m£~. I am going gentleman from Washington? to stay here and do my work and try to do my duty. If you There was no objection. will do this yourselves, I feel sure we will not hu.ve to increase INTERIOR DEPARTMENT APPROPRIATION BILL, 1940 the national debt above $45,000,000,000 but call hold it there, Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. · Mr. Speaker, I move that and we will take care of the people on relief just as soon as the House resolve itSelf into the Committee of the Whole we give confidence to the people back home so the business House on the state of the Union for the further consideration interests of this country will be able to start the wheels o~ of the bill (H. R. 4852), making appropriations for the De- industry turning and will be able to have confidence that partment of the Interior for the ,fiscal year ending June 30, there is still opportUnity ahead iii America. The boys and 1940, and for other purposes. girls who are going to school and trying to get an education The motion was agreed to. want the same opportunities you have had; the same oppor:- Accordingly, the House resolved itself into the Committee · tunities our forefathers had. Are we going to continue to of the Whole House on the state of the Union for the further give these opportunities to them, or are we going to put a consideration of the bill H. R. 4852, with Mr. BucK in the millstone around their necks in the form of a nationar debt chair. • they will be unable ever to meet because we ourselves are The Clerk read the title of the bill unable to meet it? It will show that we as Congressmen ·are -- 2726 :CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 not able to· meet the situation if we continue to increase Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman, due to the prolific na , each appropriation bill and the national debt. [Applause.] ture of the New Deal, our Govermrient has become like the [Here the gavel fell.J old woman who lived in th~ shoe. We have so many chil EXPAND THE CURRENCY AND RESTORE PROSPERITY dren we know not what to do. Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the Consequently we go out ·and take over apartment build · pro forma amendment. . ings· constructed to carry the weight of chairs, tables, beds, I believe it is about time that Congress began to under and other household goods, and tear out partitions right and stand that we never can balance the Budget by economy. left and then install heavy tabulating machinery and other We have long since passed that ·day. When this depression equipment. began in 1929, on the floor of this House I begged the Con Is it any wonder Government employees labor under the gress to do the one thing by which we could recover, to put shadow of fear for their lives when they are transferred to on a reasonable, controlled expansion of the currency, which some of these remodeled buildings? · would raise commodity prices to their normal levels, start I particularly refer at this time to the recently acquired business moving, and restore prosperity to the American Government building formerly known as the Corcoran Courts, farmers, all without engaging in a great campaign of Fed at Twenty-third and D Streets NW. eral expenditures. The Bureau of the Census has admitted to me that it I know, and every other well-informed man knows that turned down this building for its office quarters because the we never can restore prosperity or balance the Budget by structure would not bear the load of heavy tabulating ma borrowing from the rich and giving to the poor money which chines and other machinery used by that division. The office the masses of the American people, the middle classes, the of the Surgeon General, which has been assigned to the first toiling masses, if you please, the farmers, the laborers, and four floors of the building, has informed me it has been the small-business men, wiil have to pay back with interest. warned that·the floors will not carry the weight of the com Let us not deceive ourselves. We cannot balance the plete battery of files used by that section, and that either Budget by economy, nor can we restore prosperity by cutting more floor space must .be obtained or some of the files stored · down Government expenses now. in another part of the city. · I am advised all of these files We are being crucified on a cross of gold. We are now in are used from time to time, and it hardly makes for efficiency a money panic. Our circulating medium is insufficient to to have them scattered about. restore commodity prices. Two things are necessary to This Corcoran structure is an eight-story apartment build maintain price levels; one of them is a sufficient volume of ing, and many partitions have been removed to provide large the Nation's currency, or circulating medium. The other is a rooms. Surely this will have a tendency to lessen the sup- sufficient velocity of its Circulation. Our volume is down ports of the structure. · and the velocity of our circulation is almost at a standstill. I am advised that tons and tons of machinery used in the Why? Because in the first place we are stymied behind a office of the Chief of Finance are to be shifted to the top floor tariff wall. The very map of the world has become · a of this building. · The top four floors will be used by the barbed-wire entanglement of tariff barriers behind which Finance section of the War Department. I am not an engi- international trade has long been stagnant and international . neer, but it appears folly to me to place this enormous load commerce has become paralyzed. on the very top of the building. . We expanded the ·currency during the· World War to get Federal employees about to be shifted to this building are money with which to fight the· war, and while we were en greatly concerned. The matter of their safety in the building gaged in that cause there was a rise in farm prices and in is common talk among them. Some of them have called my · other prices, and our farmers and businessmen got in debt. office. Apparently nothing is being done by responsible They created obligations and regulated their business afiairs officials in charge to set at rest these reports. as well a.S their standard of living on those price levels. · Of course, the War Department employees have heard Then they brought on a depression, contracted the currency stories about the Ford Theater disaster in 1893, when many through the Federal Reserve System, which has been respon War Department employees·were hurt, some permanently, in . sible during its existence for more depression than any other the collapse of the floors of that building, which was re one thing in the history of this Republic fo·r the time it has modeled to house the records and pension section of the been in existence. Department. They then started in and collected the gold supply of the If the Corcoran Building is deemed safe from an engineer world, and what did they do with it? They buried it in the ing standpoint, these employees are entitled to know it. In ground like the foolish man of Biblical times. view of the fact they have appealed to Congress, then we, too, We cut the gold content of the dollar-and I helped to do are entitled to know and have it as a matter of record. These it-with the understanding that we were going to thereby employees should not have their minds distracted day and reduce, if you ·please, or depreciate the value of the dollar and night by these rumors-and that is what is happening. Such in that way raise commodity prices so as to restore prosperity a feeling is hard on the morale and efficiency of these Federal to our business; but instead of that, the men who are now agencies. advising us-and I am not talking about the President-took To obtain something definite on this matter I have today this gold, or advised him to take ·this gold, and bury it in the presented a resolution asking the Secretary of the Interior to ground. We have mote than $10,000,000,000-probably furnish tis with this information. · If the fears of these em $15,000,000,000-buried in the ground in Kentucky. ployees are without foundation, then let u8 give them the Now, the thing to do is to bring that gold back and issue facts· relative to the sound construction of the building; [AP currency against it-American· money, if you please-based plause.] on a 40-percent gold coverage, as the law requires, until we Mr. BURDICK. Mr. Chairman·, 'I rise in opposition to·the ·raise commodity prices back to where the American people pro forma amendment. can live and pay their debts and then stabilize them. Mt. Chairman, I want to take occasion at this tiin.e to You cannot do this by quibbling around here like a tempest discuSs the matter of the Indian legislation in this bill because in a teapot, talking about cutt1ng down this appropriation I notice my Irierid froni Missouri is present. I think this and that appropriation, nor can you restore prosperity by ·House has been "ghosted" for the last 4 years on Indian legis spending public money. lation by the gentleman from Missouri, and I want to give On the present price levels, with the present volume of ycur you the facts about what has happened in reference to Indian circulating mediUm and its present velocity of circulation you legislation in the last 87 years. ·cannot balance this Budget in 100 years, nor can you restore The Court of Claims was established 87 years ago, and prosperity; and you might as well forget it. We are going during those 87 years claims to the amount of $2,187,000,000 to have to change the system. [Applause.] have -J>een presented to the Court: of Claims. The total recov [Here the· gavei fell.] ery on Indian claims in these years is less than the amount 1939 .CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2727 of money the gentleman from Missouri wanted for the Jeffa· · Indian case is 3 years, the shortest time 8 months, and the son Memorial in St. Lou1s. longest case 8 years and 11 months. Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman I will insert in the REcoRD what Indian cases have been yield? before the Court of Claims since March 31, 1936, just as soon Mr. BURDICK. I Will yield to the gentleman any time. as I receive this information from the court. Mr. COCHRAN. Will the gentleman show me in any part Please remember, also, that these Indians are the wards of of the RECORD of this House or in the Government files where this Government and we are their guardians. The Indians I asked for one dollar for the Jefferson Memorial? had no voice in creating this relationship, and hence the Mr. BURDICK. Yes; I will. utmost good faith is requ1red of this Government as a matter Mr. COCHRAN. Where? of law. The utmost justice should be shown them-more Mr. BURDICK. On January 3, 1934, in the House, House than to an ordinary citizen who is free to act for himself. Resolution 213. For that reason an appeal to the Supreme Court of the Mr. COCHRAN. Introduced by request and withdrawn United States from a decision of the Court of Claims is the by me. only method by and through which we can offer them this Mr. BURDICK. I do not care whose request it was; the degree of justice and equ1ty to which we must respond be gentleman introduced it. cause of our fiduciary capacity. To say they are entitled to Mr. COCHRAN. It was withdrawn. Read my speeches in no more right on appeal than an ordinary citizen is to com the REcoRD and the gentleman will find I am on record in pletely forget this relationship which we have ourselves reference to that. created without the consent of the Indians. [Applause.] · Mr. BURDICK. I will answer anything the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from North . asks. I do not care what the gentleman subsequently did. I Dakota has expired. said the gentleman introduced that resolution, and the Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the REcORD of this House shows it. last three words. I compliment the gentleman from North' Now, in the entire 87 years the Indians have recovered Dakota [Mr. BURDICK] for his defense of the Indians. He $20,595,000, or about one-fourth of the cost of a battleship was raised in the same country with a great tribe of Indians well equ1pped. and he can talk their language. He should know more about Yet when the Indian bill comes in here the gentleman the Indians than any other Member of this House, and prob from Missouri [Mr. CocHRAN] says the Indians are going to ably does, but he does not entirely understand my position, bankrupt this Government, and a lot of you believe it. Let judging from his many speeches on this subject. me tell you that in percentage the amount recovered on I do not know how much the Indians have recovered in Indian claims in 87 years has been a little.over 1 percent of their suits in the Court of Claims, but I do know in the last what they have asked for, and remember also when a juris- Congress that we appropriated nearly $10,000,000-appro . distional bill comes in here the Indians do not a8k for a dol priated-in the last deficiency appropriation bill. I justified lar. The only thing they ask for is an opportunity to present my opposition to the pending Indian bills last week. My their claims to the Court of Claims, if they have anything, speech is in the RECORD. The gentleman says that there and yet we refuse to let them do it. No Member of this have been $2,100,000,000 in claims filed since the Court of Congress can justify that stand. If the Indians have a just Claims was established. The Department of Justice tells me claim against this Government, we ought not to refuse them that at the. present time there is more than that amount an opportunity of being heard upon it, and if the claim is pending, and the figures are in the RECORD. Who is correct? baseless, then let it be thrown out. A lot of gentlemen on . I accept the Department of Justice figures. As far as this bill my side of the House object to these bills, because we have is concerned, you can search the RECORD for the last 12 years inserted a clause that the Indians have a right to appeal to and no one will find where I ever made a motion of any the Supreme Court of the United States. We put that in, character against any Indian appropriation in the Depart because if you do not do that, the case goes up under a cer ment of the Interior appropriation bill. tiorari, and anyone here who is a lawyer-and most of those I ·am willing that the Indians go before the Court of Claims. who object to these bills· are lawyers-knows that a writ of . I am willing that the cases that are pending now shall be certiorari does not review the competency of the evidence, heard if Members of Congress will leave the cases as they are that all it does is to certify that on the outside the appear and not try and change the jurisdictional laws which allowed ance. of the record is correct, but you cannot inqu1re into them to sue the Government. I insist the 'Government have the merits of the case at all; so it is meaningless, and since the opportunity of presenting its side of the case, a proper there is only 1 percent actual recovery on Indian claims, is defense, but the gentleman is not satisfied with that. The there anything to be feared about letting these Indians pre gentleman wants to amend the original jurisdictional act, sent their claims to the Court of Claims? Nothing in the so as to take away from the Government this right of defense. world. How you gentlemen can follow this kind of advice, That is what he wants and that is what I am opposed to. especially from the gentleman from Missouri, when the cost Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr. Chairman, will the gen of that memorial to Jefferson in St. Louis will be $10,000,000 tleman yield? . more than the amount we have paid all of the Indians in Mr. COCHRAN. Not now. Please let me complete my the United States in the last 87 years, is more than I can statement. Congress changed the jurisdictional acts in the understand. I will give this House the actual figures on In two cases that were decided against the Government and it dian legislation prepared by the Court of·Claims itself up to cost the taxpayers of today nearly $10,000,000, which you will March 31, 1936. find appropriated in the last deficiency bill in the last session. The Court of Claims was established in 1855, and since You ·cannot dispute that statement. Let the cases that are that time only 192 Indian claims had been presented to in the Court of Claims now that have been certified remain this court in this whole period of 87 years. there, and let them be tried. I repeat, I am only opposed to The total claims made by the Indians in these 87 years putting the Government at a disadvantage. was $2,187,799,859.90, and the total recovery was $20,595,- Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr. Chairman, will the gentle 666.67; and taking all Indian claims from the beginning to man yield there? 1936 the recovery did not exceed 2.34 percent. During this Mr. COCHRAN. Not for the moment. I have another period only 27 cases were decided favorably to the Indians. matter to talk about. The average time consumed in the trial and decision of an In regard to the Jefferson Memorial, I am one public omcial Indian claim in the Court of Claims is 4 years and 11 ,months; in the city of St. Lou1s who has voiced his opposition to a the longest case 9 years and 11 months, and the shortest memorial building on the river frorit in St. Louis, and I did so case 6¥2 months. on the floor of this House. Read my speech in the RECORD. Nearly all of these cases require audits to determine otr At the request of the city omcials of St. Louis and the com sets, and the average length of time' foJ; an audit in an mittee, which was comprised of residents of almost all the 2728 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 States covered by the Louisiana Purchase, I introduced a reso · Indians. In his remarks just concluded he said he had no lution, and on the day I introduced it I gave a statement t01 objection to the prosecution of claims that were before the the newspapers that there was not one chance in a million courts, but that what he was objecting. to was the amend for Congress to appropriate the money. After that I intro ment of the jurisdictional acts. I would like to call the duced another resolution which did not provide for any attention of the Members of the Congress to the fact that money but for the appointment of a commission, and at the the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. CocHRAN] has repeatedly time it was considered I made a speech on the floor of this objected to bills which would only restore to the Indians House. I said then, and I repeat it now, that the time would rights that were guaranteed to them in the original juris never come when I would ask this Congress for money for dictional acts. that purpose, and I propose to keep my word. I never have The right of appeal to the Supreme Court on the merits and never will. of a case was granted in many Indian-claim bills, but was Mr. BURDICK. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? taken away from them purely by interpretation of the Judicial Mr. COCHRAN. Yes; I yield to the gentleman who brought Code that was adopted in 1925. By retroactive decision, so · the subject up. to speak, the right of appeal to the Supreme Court was Mr. BURDICK. But the fact is that the Government has reduced to that of applying for a writ of certiorari. Many already spent $6,750,000 for this purpose in St. Louis, is it not? bills which the gentleman has killed by parliamentary objec Mr. COCHRAN. The Government made an award to the tion did not seek to amend the original jurisdictional acts; city of St. Louis from the P. W. A. they only sought. to restore and preserve a right recognized Mr. BURDICK. Yes. in the original acts--a hearing before the Supreme Court on Mr. COCHRAN. It likewise provided money from the the merits of the claim. W. P. A. to hire relief labor to clear the site and c:lo the land:. The gentleman said in his remarks to which he referred, scape work and the cfty of St. Louis put up a certain amount those which he placed in the RECORD last week, that he would . of money. They have not yet turned a spade; they have not use every parliamentary means at his command to defeat even bought the property. They do not know whether or not consideration of bills of that character. That is exactly true; they will have sufficient money to buy the property, and until he would, does, and has. He boasted last week that in 1935 they do the project cannot proceed. That is the status of it he attached a rider to an appropriation bill that would re today. quire the courts to charge. against treaty claims every dollar After the site is purchased, the land cleared, and the land spent for Indian affairs, regardless of whether the expendi scape work completed, then will come the question of a me ture met treaty guaranties or not, and regardless of whether morial building if the original plans are to be carried out. similar expenditures for white citizens was charged against St. Louis cannot use any· money set aside unless the Govern- them or not. I was not here in 1935. But I am told that . ment advances money; so you see if there is ever to be a . 1935 rider was attached to an appropriation bill that came building, they will hav~ to come to Congress. to the floor under a special rule to prevent its being taken Mr. BURDICK. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield out by a normal point of order. further? The gentleman is honest and frank. By his own words he Mr. COCHRAN. I yield. demands for himself every parliamentary weapon; he takes Mr. BURDICK. As a matter of fact, is there any difference from Mr. Indian even normal parliamentary protection. He whether the money comes from the P. W. A. or fx:om any other knows the tricks. He, armed, insists that the Indian shall be source, as long as it is Government money? · disarmed. Mr. COCHRAN. The city of St. Louis is entitled toP. W. A. That is exactly what has happened in the entire history money and W. P. A. money as well as the gentleman's own of this Government's treatment of the Indians. It has taken State. advantage of every parliamentary procedure; it has taken Mr. BURDICK. But you say they have not spent any of advantage of its skilled, technical knowledge of the law and this $6,000,000. language to whip into submission and take advantage of Mr. COCHRAN. The project originally was to cost $33,- the illiterate and untrained Indians. That is what has been 000,000. It is down now to about $9,000,000. The city of st~ the cause of the shame and dishonor this country has · had Louis is paying part of the cost. I do feel we are entitled to in its treatment of the American Indian. P. W. A. and W. P. A. money the same as any other city. I The gentleman referred to the figures which he placed in · am not going to help get any money from Congress for a the RECORD last week with respect to the amount of claims · building because I promised I would not. pending in various . cases before the courts at the present Mr. Chairman, no Member of this House need feel he can time. The gentleman did not offer the figures during his · embarrass me by talking . about the Jefferson Memorial in . speech. Those were inserted later under his permission to St. Louis. The people of my city know my position, and revise and extend. If the gentleman wants to rely upon Members of Congress should know it because I have made figures placed in· the RECORD and wants an accurate picture numerous speeches on the subject. I am not talking one way placed before the Congress, he should ask permission to and acting another. To tear down 40 blocks of buildings, correct the figures he placed in the RECORD last week, be some nearly a hundred years old, and create a river-front cause in instance after instance those figures are in error. park undoubtedly will be of benefit to St. Louis. It is a proper I am not saying the gentleman made the error. He did site for a memorial commemorating the Louisiana Purchase. . not. He ·only submitted a list that was furnished him by the · lf the park is ever created, then I would advocate a great Attorney General. In several instances interest amounting granite shaft to be erected in the center; but I never have, to inlllions and inillions of dollars was figured in and listed and never will, urge the construction of a $20,000,000 me in cases where no interest is claimed, and in cases where ' moria! building. This correctly states my position, and I no interest is ever given by the courts. In other instances · think the language is plain· enough for anyone to under interest was figured at 6 percent, whereas under the pro stand it. cedure of the courts and the recognized rights 1n those cases, only 5 percent could be charged. I do not know why the The CHAIRMAN. The tfme of the gentleman from .Mis Attorney General furnished the gentleman with those mis souri has expired. leading figilres. I would not accuse the Attorney General ADVANTAGES TAKEN OF THE .INDIAN . of trying to · terrorize the· Congress, but certainly this must Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.· Cha.irman, I rise In take the aspect of some special pleading to prejudice Con · opposition to the pro forma amendment. . gress against proper consideration of Indian legislation. · Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. CocH The Indian is not ~sking for any treatment in these juris RAN] is the able chairman of the Committee on Expenditures dictional bills other than that which he would accord to the in the Executive Departments. The particular executive Government, and the gentleman, in his concern for the Treas department that seems to arouse and attract most of his ·ury of the United States, might well consider what will happen activity is that which has to deal with expenditures for the in some of those cases if a verdict is given to the Indians in 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2729 the Court of Claims and · the Government itself has lost its of gold at $35 an ounce, from foreign countries, mostly from right to have the merits of the case reviewed by the SUpreme France and England. which owe the taxpayers' Treasury more Court. If the Government is also restricted to appealing than $10,000,000.000. I submit that if the gentleman from merely on a writ of certiorari, he may find that he has let Missouri wants to practice economy in a big way, he should the Government in for some very large judgments and lost not be devoting so much of his great ability and energy to for the Government also the protection he took from the · saving a few millions at the expense of our American Indians. Indians. He should devote his great ability and energy to saving many The Indian is willing that those cases should go before the billions of dollars at the expense of foreign gold producers, courts upon their merits, both in the Court of Claims and importers, and speculators, who have been waxing fat under before the United States Supreme Court. When the gentle the New Deal monetary program. man asks for some special parliamentary means to defeat As a new member of the Committee on Indian Affairs, I consideration of a case upon its merits, it is a confession .of shall give very careful consideration to the Indian questions weakness in the Government's case, a confession that he is which the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. COCHRAN] has afraid to submit the Government's case to even-handed brought to the :floor of the House. I sincerely hope, however, justice. Persorially I believe that this fair-minded Congress that our New Deal Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Mr. John wants to have the Indian cases heard and considered on Collier, will practice what he preached before the advent of their merits. [Applause.] the New Deal with reference to the administration of Indian The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from South affairs. [Appla1lse.l Dakota [Mr. CASE] has expired. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. JOHNSON of Oklaboma. Mr. Chairman, I ask that OiTie& a. THE SECRETARY all debate on this paragraph close in 5 minutes. We have SALARIES had two days of general debate, and I believe it is not un Salaries: For the Secretary of the Interior, Under Secretary, First reasonable to ask that debate on this paragraph close in 5 Assistant Secretary, Assistant Secretary, and other personal services in the District of Columbia, $554,720: Provided, That in expending lninutes. appropriations or portions of appropriations contained in this act The CHAIRMAN. Is the gentleman submitting a unani for the payment for personal services in the District o:t: Columbia mous-consent request? in accordance with the Classification Act of 1923, as amended, with Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I make that unanimous the exception of the First Assistant Secretary and the Assistant Sec retary, the average of the salaries of the total number of persons consent request, Mr. Chairman. under any grade in any bureau, otflce, or other appropriation unit The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the shall not at any time exceed the average of the compensation rates gentleman from Oklahoma? specified for the grade by such act, as amended, and in grades in which only one position is allocated the salary of such position shall Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. Mr. Chairman, I object. not exceed the average of the compensation rates for the grade, Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Then, Mr. Chairman, I except that in unusually meritorious cases of one position in a move that all debate on this paragraph and all amendments grade advances may be made to rates higher than the average of thereto close in 5 minutes. the compensation rates of the grade but not more often than once in any fiscal year, and then only to the next higher rate: Provided, Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. Mr. Chairman~ I raise the That this restriction shall not apply (1) to grades 1, 2, 3, and 4 of point of order that there is not a quorum present. the clerical-mechanical service, or (2) to require the reduction in The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will count. salary of any person whose compensation was fixed as of July 1, 1924, in accordance with the rules of section 6 of such act; (3) to Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. Mr. Chairman, in order to require the reduction in salary of any person who is transferred expedite action on the bill, I withdraw the point of order. from one position to another position in the same or di1ferent grade The CHAIRMAN. 'Ihe question is on the motion of the in the same or a different bureau. omce, or other appropriatton gentleman from California that all debate on this section and unit; (4) to prevent the payment of a salary under any grade at a rate higher than the maximum rate of the grade when such higher all amendments thereto close in 5 minutes. rate is permitted by the Classification Act of 1923, as amended, and The motion was agreed to. 1s speciflcally authorized by other law; or ( 5) to reduce the com Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. Mr. Chairman, I move to pensation of any person in a grade in which only one position is strike out the last three words. allocated. · Mr. Chairman, with a great deal of interest I listened today Mr. WHITE of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amend to the confessions of New Deal leaders admitting the failure _ment. of several of their administration measures. First, the gentle The Clerk read as follows: man from Mississippi [Mr. R.AlmiHl admitted the complete Amendment offered by Mr. WHITE of Ohio: Page 2, line 6, at the failure of and indicted the monetary policies inaugurated beginning of the line strllte out "'564,720" -and insert in lieu thereof under the New Deal. Then the gentleman from Missouri "$517,980." [Mr. CoCHRAN], the chairman of the great Committee on Mr. WHITE of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, this amendment is Expenditures in the Executive Departments, which does not offered for the purpose of holding the publicity expense of perform the investigating duties with which it is charged the Department of the Interior, omce of the Secretary, to its under the rules of the House, admitted unjustifiable raids on present limit. There is a tendency in practically every the Treasury under Indian legislation sponsored and enacted branch of government constantly to expand, everlastingly to by the New Deal within the past few years. enlarge the operation of these propaganda divisions. It I hope my Republican colleague the gentleman from North seems a great many of them are trying to take a page out of Dakota [Mr. BuRDICK] will not continue to chide the distin .Goebbels' book of propaganda. . guished gentleman from Missouri £Mr. CocHRAN] because he On this particular item the testimony in the hearings shows supported the appropriation of many millions of dollars for a $50,000. was allowed last year to cover the expense of legiti Jefferson Memorial. The New Deal has strayed far from the mate but sometimes unnecessary press relations activities, or fundamental principles and policies of government expounded propaganda work. They propose ·now to add 21 additional and practiced by Thomas Jefferson. Our New Deal friends, positions in this omce, and the Secretary of the Interior says no doubt, ease their consciences by spending millions of dol It will add a cost of $36,740. You will note the reduction I lars to erect a great memorial in honor of the man whose have suggested merely cuts out the proposed increase. principles and policies they have repudiated. The New Deal The amendment is submitted to the Committee on the basis has embraced the socialistic, communistic ideas of a regi of the contention · that they already have enough people in mented soviet bureaucracy ini:Ported direct from Moscow, the this Department handling press relations. I think each and original land of planned economy. every one of us knows that the time of these people is spent Under New Deal monetary legislation and policies, which in preparing press hand-outs that usually are super:fluous and were denounced today by your own New Deal leader, the not very useful. I happen to be in· the newspaper business gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. RANKI:NJ, our American citi myself, and I dare say there is not a reporter in the House zens were forced to turn in their gold to the Treasury for gallery who would not tell you that the propaganda machin $20.67 an ounce or go to the Federal penitentiary for 5 years. ery is overmanned in most all of the departments and a lot The New Deal then imported more than $8,000,000,000 worth of that work is silly and useless. A good reporter gets the 2730 CONGRESSIONAL ..RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 real news without the propaganda gristmill. I think .this is DivisiON. OF TERRITORIES AND ISLAND POSSESSIONS not a necessary function, and I think they can take care of For personal services in the District of Columbia, $57,000. the work that should be done along this line by their present Mr. GERLACH. Mr. Chairman, I move to · strike out the force and at an expense not exceeding $50,000, the· amount last word. that will remain in this bill if my amendment is adopted. Mr. Speaker, as this is my first appearance before this The testimony of the Secretary before the committee called honorable body, and this my maiden speech, permit me to attention to the fact that they have a motion-picture divi introduce myself and to tell you briefly about the district sion and also a radio division down there; in other words, they which it is my honor and privilege to represent. are building up a gigantic organization to produce a steady Two counties, comprising the Ninth Congressional District, stream of publicity or propaganda. In this particular case lie in southeastern Pennsylvania and constitute one of the Mr. Ickes called attention to the fact that they had a very richest industrial and agricultural sections of our great Key lovely entertainment not very long ago in the form of a radio stone State. More than 90 percent of my constituents are broadcast dramatizing the annual report of the Secretary of 'native-born whites, substantial, God-fearing people, people the Interior to the President of the United States. I do not who believe in the Ten Commandments, the Bill of Rights, know whether they paid for the broadcasting time or not, but ·and "the opportunity to wprk and rear their families accord they certainly had to pay the cost of preparing the broadcast ing to their abilities, and without any paternalism on the part scrip. This, I think, is an example of exceeding the neces of their Government. Their forebears came with William sary boundaries of proper press relations work. Penn and were doing their part in establishing our great I therefore ask the Committee to give their support to the State when it was still known as Penn's woods. Bucks passage and adoption of this amendment. County, one-half of my ·district, was one of the three counties Mr. LEAVY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the ·into which Pennsylvania was divided by Penn in 1682. He amendment offered by the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. WHITE]. named the county Bucks and its second county seat Bristol, Mr. Chairman, it is impossible in a matter as far reach after a county and town of the same names in England. Penn ing and as complex as is the office of the Secretary of the himself resided in the county for a number of years. Bucks Interior or any of the great· Government departments to ·county, too, is replete with Revolutionary War history. · It either propose things that ought to be done by such depart was into this county that Washington crossed the Delaware ments or to obj~ct to things that are proposed in the brief on Sunday~ Decemb-er 8, 1776, after the Battle of Trenton, time of 5 minutes. and the dwelling in which he established his headquarters, The committee did make a cut of $10,000, as the gentle and which is on the site once considered by Congress for the man from Ohio [Mr. WHITE] Will recall, Which was for the Capital of the United States, is still standing and in a fine purpose of bringing about this economy that we believed state of preservation.· It was in this house that George could be safely brought about. In fairness to the Depart Clymer, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, lived ment of the Interior, may I say that the Congress itself has and died.- placed into that department, in the last 4 or 5 years a great My home county of Lehigh, while not so old as Bucks, is number of new activities which require added expense for not without its historic background. Lehigh County was a administrative purposes. These activities are all of tremen part of Northampton and was settled by the Morav!ans, a dous magnitude. You cannot charge the Department with religious people, in some respects like Penn's Quakers, but that. We must take the blame ourselves for all these new of Germanic stock. They were the result of .that ea·.:ty out activities, if it were an unwise thing to do. This year we burst of the Reformation and were a pious, thrifty, indus gave them the Federal Housing Authority, a Nation-wide trious, and self-sufficient people. The Moravians were op activity. We gave them last year the Bituminous Coal Com posed to war, but, like the Quakers, often made exceptions. mission, another great activity. We have brought into that . ·They had no objections, of course, to caring for the sick Department many things of that nature and to say now and wounded. On the contrary, they were glad to do it. that we should arbitrarily eliminate from this bill, without During the Revolution their women prepared a beautiful regard to the effect it might have on governmental activ silk flag, which they presented to General Pulaski's regi ities, this particular item, or ·any item unless good cause ment, an event celebrated and immortalized in Longfel exists, it seems to me, is unsound and I think the amend low's well-known poem. In Allentown, our county seat, one ment offered by the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. WHITE] of the great cities of the Commonwealth, stands Zion Re should not be agreed to. formed Church, in which the Liberty Bell and bells of Old Mr. WHITE of Ohio. Will the gentleman yield? Christ Church, Philadelphia, were hidden in 1777. This Mr. LEAVY. I yield to the gentleman from Ohio. church is now an historic shrine. Allentown, too, is the seat Mr. WHITE of Ohio. Is it not true that two or three of Muhlenberg College, notable for its association with the additions have been made since a year ago, at which time Muhlenbergs of Revolutionary fame. they had $50,000 in the bill for this particular purpose and Industrially . we are the largest silk-producing district in that the added departments also have items for this same the State and the center of the cement industry. Our chief purpose? products, both in Lehigh and Bucks, are cement, silk, tex Mr. LEAVY. I would not agree to the last statement that tiles, metal products, auto trucks, machinery, chemicals, they have items for the same purpose. ' clothing, cigars, furniture, limestone, and agricultural cropS, Mr. WHITE of Ohio. The United States Housing Au- especially fruit and potatoes. We also manufacture air thority does. planes, carpets, worsted, woolen and leather goods, and have Mr. LEAVY. It has some money for that purpose. several shipbuilding plants. For the lover of wildlife Lehigh [Here the gavel fell.l County can boast one of the few remaining buffalo herds in The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment the United States. For this we are indebted to the late Gen. offered by the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. WHITEJ. Harry C. Trexler, who, many ·years before his death, estab The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by lished on his vast estate a 2,000-acre game preserve in which, Mr. WHITE of Ohio) there were-ayes 53, noes 51. in addition to the butfalo,· are hundreds of elk and deer. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I demand This preserve is now one of Lehigh County's prized posses tellers. sions and is a constant attraction to thousands of tourists. Tellers were ordered, and the Chair appointed Mr. JoHNSON With this brief recital of soine of my district's highlights, of Oklahoma and Mr. WHITE of Ohio to act as tellers. and of the character of my constituents, I believe you will The Committee again divided; and the tellers reported agree with me that they are pure, unadulterated Aniericans, there were-ayes 92 and noes 89. and that their creed is what we all like to call the great So the amendment was agreed to. American system; and under this American system it is well The Clerk read as follows: to remember that our people have been able to secure for 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2731 themselves benefits far beyond those enjoyed generally by go still further. We must relieve industry of excessive tax any other people in world history. Under this system, our ation by repealing the undivided-profits tax and other unfair spiritual advantages carry the priceless content of liberty, levies on business, and by amending the Social Security Act common sense, and the dignity of man. The hi~tory of to meet the needs of the people and not carry large sur civilization proves that free people are secure only if they pluses. [Applause.] Instead of the Government competing continue to make their government a servant rather than a with industry it should lend industry a helping hand. By master; that to achieve and maintain free government is the doing this it would be possible to reduce the tax burden, and business of all the people; that responsibilities alone make the added confidence given to industry would induce it to rights and liberties possible, and that true liberalism can best start operations at once and put men to work in gainful em be achieved along principles established by reason and based ployment. Plants and factories should be operated for at on experience. least 4 months on a full-time basis, even though they may We are liberal, but we do not propose to get away from not have immediate orders for all commodities produced. the sound practical way. of doing things. Sound thinking Any surpluses could be carried in stock, as was done years men and women of this Congress, irrespective of political ago, thus enabling the plants to operate on full time, as indi-. affiliations, must conclude that many of the policies of the cated, instead of running intermittently as orders are re present administration, however well intended, are carrying ceived. If industry will give to the workingman, immedi us toward certain disaster. ately, continuous employment for at least 4 months, at full Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, a point of pay, he will in turn spend this money which he receives, order. because he is now down to the point where he needs prac The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. tically everything necessary to maintain himself and his Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I make the family, thus keeping the money in circulation. This auto point of order the gentleman is not speaking to the bill. We matically will bring recovery to the businessman and to the want to get through some time. I am perfectly willing to farmer and to everybody generally. The plan to establish run along here a couple of minutes if the Members will speak ll:l.boratories so that new uses may be found for farm products .on the bill. is noteworthy and will lead to the greater consumption. of Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Will the geptleman yield? these products.. There is also pending in Congress a bill Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I yield to the gentleman providing for a laboratory through which new uses for coal from South Dakota. may be found and that·sick industry rehabilitated. Mr. CASE of South Dakota. The gentleman from Penn NO. 2. RETAIL BUSINESS sylvania [Mr. GERLACH] had permission to address the House Retail businessmen, both large and small, always had their yesterday, but his time was eliminated due to a death of shelves well stocked before this depression. When business one of the Members. He is asking for this 5 minutes. to get conditions were normal and they had confidence in their these remarks in the REcORD. Government, they bought in large quantities; but during the Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I will not object at this past 8 years they have reversed that practice, merely supply time, but I shall object hereafter. ing their requirements from day to day. With added confi The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Oklahoma dence and relief from burdensome taxes, they would again [Mr. JoHNSON] withdraw his point of order? stock their shelves, thereby helping to move the wheels of Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw industry and fulfllling their part in the recovery program. the point of order. Business needs only to be unhampered to .go ahead. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. _ N0.3. LABOR GERLACH] will proceed. The laboring man has the right to bargain collectively, Mr. GERLACH. Mr. Chairman, to my way of thinking we and we need laws that are workable to protect those rights; ·will make a great deal more progress in.solving our problems laws that will give him a square deal, because the interests when we begin squarely to face the facts; and, if they are of the employee and the employer are identical. Attempts bad, recognize the fact that they are bad; and, if they are to divide these two essential units of national well-being into tough, recognize the fact that they are tough, and decide to hostile camps is a step toward national suicide. Representa act accordingly. Political parties under our system of gov tives of industry have received many hard kliocks. They are ernment are the vehicles for the transmission of the will of anxious and willing to join with the workers in any reason the people, but our approach to the fundamental problems able plan to save the business principles which have guided of the Nation should be above mere partisanship. America and benefited our country from the beginning of our national is greater than political parties and, above all, we are Ameri life. The paramount objective of labor is real jobs in pro cans; and, like the Apostle Paul, "citizens of no mean coun ductive .enterprise. [Applause.] There are only two employ try." My friends, let me repeat, America is greater than ers in our country: the Government and private industry. political parties and above all, we are Americans. It was If all the people worked for the Government, where would Thomas Jefferson who said: the Government get the money to meet its pay roll? The we are to guard oursel"~s. not aeainst ourselves as we are, but answer to the problem of balancing the National Budget and as we .may be, for who can. imagine what we may be under cir decreasing unemployment is for the Government to stimulate cumstances not now·tmagtnable. business by every means at its command. [ApplaUse.] The wisdom of those who guided the destinies of our coun Otherwise increasing deficits and more unemployment are try and laid. the foundations of our system of government inevitable. What we need is a Nation-wide reaffirmation of is unquestioned. The astounding faet, as revealed after a our faith in the American system of government. It is well lapse of 150 years, is the uncanny gift of prophesy which they to remember that under the American system our people possessed, and how well they anticipated the problems faced have been able to secure for themselves benefits and advan by this generation. Jefferson dreaded a time to come when tages beyond those enjoyed generally by any other people in the Government could not be stopped from wasting the labor world history. · of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. NO.4. THE FARMERS That time has come. · The farms are the dynamic factories in the business ma Therefore, I am going . to offer to this. honorable body 10 chinery of the Nation. There can be no disagreement with suggestions, which, I believe, if enacted into law, would bring the fact that the farmer is entitled' to a fair share of the about econo~c recovery in this the greatest country in the . wealth of our country. .We pay and compel the farmer to world. produce less while, at the same time, we permit injurious NO. 1. INDUSTRY foreign competition in our domestic market, which market, This Seventy-sixth Congress encouraged industry and by every right, belongs to the ·American farmer. We help business when it showed independence and courage on a the farmer to grow more and better crops through soil number of important bills, but that is not enough. We must conservation--and the basic principles of soil conserVation 2732 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCU 14 are sound-but at the same time it is proposed to restrict allowing the importation of commodities which could be acreage, control marketing, and produce less. Furthermore, manufactured by our own people working millions ·of man taxes are absorbing more and more of the consumers' dol hours? As an illustration, let us take one commodity, lars, leaving less and less for the faxmer. One of the biggest cement. Cement is now being imported into this country and most essential aids to agriculture would be the restora and sold at 20 cents a barrel less than we can manufacture tion of activity in business and industry. Above all things, it. This is a very good example of one of the many com the American farmer, to be secure in the possession of his modities on which the tariff has been reduced to a point birthright, should be the boss of his own farm and the where our manufacturers cannot compete with the foreign captain of his own soil. product. Cement and all other commodities imported into NO. 5. BANKERS this country should carry a tax or tariff sufficient to balance The local banks throughout the country claim that the the cost of production here and abroad. restrictions surrounding the administration's banking policies Permit me to call your attention to the silk industry, which are hampering them in loaning money to retail businessmen is a major industry in my district. This industry is at the ·so that the latter may buy merchandise in large quantities. -lowest ebb in the history of the business. There are two Moreover, a downward trend in interest rates both in short reasons for this condition: For years a small group of men and long-term money would be a real help to Business. In have imported the raw silk from Japan and Italy. This my home county of Lehigh, the county commissioners bor group now controls the silk, beginning with the importation rowed moneY from New York banks on long-term notes at ·Of the raw product down to the time that its manufactures 2 percent, and on short-term notes at less than one-half of axe sold to the retail trade. In other words, the mill owners 1 percent. In the last session of the Seventy-fifth Congress no longer sell their product but are merely commission mer the Federal farm-loan law was enacted,· giving the farmer chants for this small group of importers. A thorough inves the opportunity of borrowing money at 3% percent. Why tigation, I am sure, would help solve a large part of the was not this same opportunity extended to the workingman trouble in this industry. In addition, the low import tax on who may have a H. 0. L. C. or a F. H. A. loan on his home? both finished and unfinished silk, due to our reciprocal-trade He should be given the same interest rate · as the farmer, agreements with Japan and Italy, is a real detriment to the and, last but not least, there are 2,000,000 medium- and small silk industry. business men in the United States who should also enjoy the NO. 8. RAILROADS privilege of borrowing money at these lower rates. After There is a widespread desire throughout the country to all, supply and demand help to fix the prices of merchandise, ·consider ways and means of r-ehabilitating the Nation's $26,- and the money market is no different. Our banks are loaded 000,000,000 railroad industry. The rapid and largely unregu with billions of dollars of idle money which is not earning lated development of transportation facilities in the United them a penny. If this were put to work, I believe every States has produced a national problem without a national businessman would employ an average of three additional transportation policy. Much favoritism now exists, and to a ·persons. A total of 6,000,000 people would thus be taken ·pronounced degree, in the important matters. of regulation, ·off relief and the W. P. A. rolls, thereby considerably reliev taxation, and subsidies. While substantial relief should come ing the country of the heavy burden of relief. The worker with improvement in general business. the removal of all would earn enough to buy his family the things 'that indus favoritism and inequalities is essential to the healthful func try must sell to keep it in a prosperous condition, and, as .tioning of the transportation industry. Certain temporary I have said before, every workingman is now in need of prac measures are necessary and should be adopted, but the only tically everything necessary to adequately and completely way by which anything of lasting benefit can be accomplished maintain hiniself and his family. is by equalizing all modes of transportation with respect to NO. 6. SOCIAL SECURITY the three important matters mentioned. Social security must be made really secure. It is regarded The records show. further that in recent years substantial as the outstanding contribution of the present generation. increases have been made in the already high salaries of rail Its humanitarian objectives are commendable and its benefits road presidents and vice presidents. This practice cannot be are undeniable. This act has made a genuine contribution justified in these hard times. In short, three factors must be toward helping our aged, and our blind and dependent chil · considered in dealing with our transportation problem-the dren, through that partnership of the State and the Federal public interest, the employees, and the investors. Governments which has long been a part of our American NO. 9. BUSINESS WITH LATIN-AMERICAN COUNTRIES system . . One group of our people, however, has been neg The Government, through the Department of Domestic and lected by the present Social Security Act, a group that has · Foreign Commerce, should establish a sales force, if you been denied the full benefits of the act, because of the age please, that would cooperate and develop business with for limit, which is no fault of theirs. This group is composed of eign countries, namely,-the 20 countries in South America, those who are past the age limit of 65 years. In my judgment,· as well as other countries that are friendly with our Nation. they should receive the same benefits per mCinth as are en It is a fact that due to our high standards of living and joyed by others who now come within the provisions of the ' higher wages, our manufacturers cannot compete with for- act. If this were done, their buying power wotild increase . eign manufacturers who pay starvation wages and· whose and substantial and permanent recovery be hastened. The; employees' living standards are, necessarily, on a much lower unworkable program of proposed legislation presented to the · level. I suggest after proper investigation by the Govern Seventy-sixth Congress should be discarded imm·ediately 1f ment into manufacturing ·costs that we meet this competition this group is to be given the same benefits. I am told the of foreign manufacturers by having the Government pay our reason this tax money is paid into the General Treasury is · own manufacturers the difference between what it costs to because the administration claims it would be unconstitu manufacture the same articles here and abroad. tional to do otherwise; and if this be true, let us haye an· As an illustration, it has come to my attention that within amendment to the Constitution so that this money can be' the past year the Chilean Government asked American ship kept in a separ_ate fund to be used {or the purpose for which· builders for ~ a price on three battleships costing approxi it was intended. Let us also amend the act so that there mately $90,000,000 and that not one shipbuilder from this will not be large accumulated surpluses. country bid on the contract .becaUse he could not meet the NO. 7. RECIPROCAL-TRADE AGREEMENTS foreign competitive prices. As a result, the contracts went to Our present administration has inaugurate.d reciprocal foreign countries. - trade agreements with foreign countries, st.ating that they Now, would it not have been b~tter to have adjusted the make for a "good-neighbor policy." Most of these same for prices between the Chilean Government and our own ship eign countries owe us billions of dollars in unpaid loans, on builders, thereby giving the latter an opportunity to hire our wl;l.ich they refuse even to pay the interest. Why should we men, take theJD off W. P. A. and the relief rolls, and reinstate · sacrifice to this "good-neighbor pOlicy" our home markets,' them in industry? 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2733 NO. 10.- MERCHANT MARINE · Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I make a · point of order For many years foreign shipowners transported much . of against the paragraph that it is not authorized by law. There our finished products all over the world, and the reasons is no authority in the law, as I understand it, for the main therefor were that our -exporters could ship cheaper in for tenance of this division. It went out on a point of order last I eign vessels, due to operating costs and lower wages. But year, and, as I remember the situation, there has been no when the World War started and our Army and Navy needed change in the law since. I believe that is all that needs to be merchant ships, such ships were not available. We had only said on the subject at this time. a few of our own, and the foreign vessels had been called - The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman make a point of home and pressed into service there. Since then, the Gov order to the entire paragraph? ernment has been urging private shipowners to build a mer Mr. TABER. To the entire paragraph; yes. chant marine second to none. Upon investigation, however, . The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Oklahoma the 'industry was found to be in such financial di.fiiculties [Mr. JOHN~ON] desire to be heard? that private bankers did not care to carry the enormous Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, the objec risk of loaning it the necessary funds. · Congress therefore tionable provisions to which the gentleman from New York came to the aid of this important industry. It enacted the [Mr. TABER] refers have, I feel sure, been stricken from the 1936 ship subsidy law, providing for a merchant marine. bill. . In fact, those provisions ·were stricken from the bill Under this act the Government agreed to furnish 75 percent last year. · of the cost of these new ships at 3%-percent interest and Mr. TABER. What I am contending is that these provisions with an amortization plan allowing them 20 years to pay. were largely put back in the bill. The bill contained only the Notwithstanding this help, many shipowners were unable to nonobjectionable items, but the objectionable items were put raise their 25 percent of the cost. back in. , I believe there are two good reasons why the Government Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, the provision should go ahead and build a merchant marine if the pri to which the gentleman refers is, we think, authorized under vate shipowners cannot see their way clear to do so: My title.16, chapter 4 of ·the code, title 5, sections 43 and 485, first reason is, that our merchant marine is certainly an and title 43, section 981. adjunct to our national defense, and if we depend upon for . The CHAIRMAN. _The Chair is ready to rule. eign service to carry our world trade we will be left high · The Chair belieyes the last sentence in the pat:agraph as it and dry when the foreign ships are called home at the first now stands, reading, "The Secretary of the Interior. shall hint of an emergency; secondly, it will reduce the number include in his annual report a full statement of all expendi of unemployed now on relief rolls by giving additional men tures made und~r authority of this paragraph," is clearly leg work in building, as well as in operating these ships; and it islation and is subject to a point of order. If t}1e gentle~an will not be amiss to bear in-mind that 90 percent of our from New _York insists upon his point of order going against American travelers who visit Europe now travel on floating the entire section, the Chair will necessarily be forced to palaces built and operated by Britain, France, Germany, and sustain it. The Chair does sustain the point of order. Italy. -- Mr. JOHNSON of .Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I offer an We must establish our foreign shipping facilities on a amendment, which I send to the desk. sound basis. To neglect them will prove costly in an emer The Clerk read as follows: gency. An adequate merchant marine in - an emergency Amendment offered by Mr. JoHNSON of Oklahoma: Page 3, line will operate as -the supply train of our Navy, and we should 19, insert the following: , "For investigating official matters under the control of the De lose no time in providing for it. · partment of the Interior; for protecting timber on the P,Ublic lands, · May I say in closing that you cannot solve great economic and for the more efficient execution of the law and rules relating problems by miracles. You cannot solve them with any to the cutting thereof; for protecting public lands from illegal thing-but sound and-appropriate policies based .on economic and fraudulent entry or appropriation; for adjusting claims for swamplands and indemnity for swamplands; and for traveling and experience, economic principles, and economic facts. We other expenses of persons employed hereunder, $548,000, including have had the longest and worst depression in history and are not exceeding $39,240 for personal services in the District of Colum still in the midst of it, because year after year economic bia; not exceeding $52,000 for the purchase, exchang~. operation. ~nd maintenance of motor-propelled passenger-carrying vehicles experience, economic principles, and economic facts have and motorboats for the use of agents and others employed in the been ignored while we have watched and prayed for eco field service." nomic miracles. But none -has yet been performed. None ever was. ·· None ever wili .be. Government, in · short, must Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order }Jalance its Budget. Business in general must be allowed .to against the amendment that it is not authorized by law. balance its budget and begin making profits instead of losses The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentlem~n from Oklahoma if this depression is ever to end and prosperity be restored. desire to be heard on the point of order? This depression would. long since have ended as previous de Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahom_a. I have just given the cita pressions have, and prosperity and employment in private tions authorizing this provision. I will _repeat them if the business would have been fully restored had we used the gentleman from New York desires me to do so. · good common sense employed by our forefathers in other Mr. TABER. No; it is not necessary. depressions and not indulged in unfair and stupid economic TheCHAffiMAN. The Chair is_ready to rule. policies which already had been discredited by all previous The language of the amendment offered by the gentleman human experience. [Applause.] from Oklahoma follows very closely the language adopted by the Committee of the Whole in the 1939 Interior appropria The Clerk read as follows: tion bill. ·At that time the gentleman from New York made DIVISION OF INVESTIGATION a point of order against the language then offered an_d the For investigating official matters undr.r the control of the Depart ment of the Interior; for pro.tecti:g timber on the public lands, and Chairman in his ruling, by which the present occupant of for the more efficient execution of the law and rules relating to the the chair feels himself bound, stated the following: cutting thereof; fOr protecting public lands from illegal and fraudu _ The . language embodied in the amendment proper is clearly lent entry or appropriation; for adjusting claims for swamplands authorized by existing law for protecting timber, and so forth. ~nd indemnity for swamplands; and for traveling and other ex It seems clear that incidental to such authority the power to con penses of persons employed hereunder, $548,000, including not ex duct the investigation in the handling of that and to properly ceeding $.39,240 for personal services in the District cif Columbia; not handle it, would be entirely in order. exceeding $52,000 for the purchase, exchange, operation, and main tenance of motor-propelled passenger-carrying vehicles and motor Th_e Chair, therefore, overrules the point of order. boats for the use of agents and others employed in _the field service. Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment to the The Secretary of the Interior shall include in his annual report a amendment. · full statement of all expenditures made under authority of this paragraph. · The Clerk read as follows: Amendment offered by Mr. TABER to the committee amendment Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, a point of qrder. ·offered by Mr. JoHNSON of Oklahoma: ·Strike out "$548,000" and The CHAffiMAN. The gentleman will state it. insert in lieu thereof "$440,000." LXXXIV--173 2734' CONGRESSIONAL. RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, this appropriation represents The question was taken; and on a division the year only, The men working under the Taylor Grazing park management is doing a very good job of ~nistering Act are some of them employed by the year and some of the national parks, but here they have sent a memorandum them for the grazing season. There is not much money to to the editors throughout the· country, a printed communica be saved by throwing them together. I think it was a tion consisting of seven pages notifying the editors that pic wonderful act of conservation when the Congress passed the tures are available and advocating the establishment of an Taylor Gra-Zing Act. additienal park in the United States; and, by the way, in my I hope the amendment will not .pass. own State. I am not saying we would not like to have an Mr. WHITE of Idaho. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman other park in the State of California, but I do believe that yield? the National Park Service should not be using the taxpayers• Mr. PIERCE of Oregon. I yield. money to send out communications of this kind and should Mr. WHITE of Idaho. The gentleman speaks of digging not be using the franking privilege of the Government of the wells. Grazing land is useless without water for the stock, United States to send out a communication that advocates is it not? giving them an additional area to administer. Mr. PIERCE of Oregon. Yes; land without water is use Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, w1ll the gen less. A large amount of water has been provided in Oregon, tleman yield? to my knowledge. Mr. CARTER. I yield. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Did the Park Service send Mr. WHITE of Idaho. And by the digging of these wells out a memorandum asking that Crystal Cave park be estab they have increased the value of the grazing land? lished, in which the gentleman himself was terribly interested Mr. PIERCE of Oregon. Yes; and many lakes have been just a few months ago? built where water was reservoired. Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mr. CARTER. In the first place, there is no Crystal Cave Mr. PIERCE of Oregon. I yield. park. The gentleman is entirely in error; and I never sent out anything with reference to the improvement of that cave Mr. RICH. Does not the gentleman think that if we give or anything else. What I did do was this-I decline to yield them the same amount of money we gave them last year, further until I have answered the gentleman. In the Sequoia $650,000, and if there is consolidation, why build up your National Park in my State there is quite a wonderful cave organization when you have t~ change it? If you are going to that will bring in considerable revenue to the Government of consolidate it, you Will certainly do it next year, will you not? the United States, and I did advocate and receive an appro Mr. PIERCE of Oregon. You will have to employ prac priation of $25,000 for tlie purpose of developing that cave, tically as many men, as they must cover a large territory and the Park Service proposes to charge an entrance fee of doing different types of work. · 25 cents. and it is estimated they will receive an annual Mr. RICH. No; not at all. revenue of $10,000 from that cave. Those are the facts in Mr. PIERCE of Oregon. I will say to my colleague from relation to that matter. Pennsylvania there is nothing to be saved. However, I want to say there is a great deal of unnecessary Mr. RICH. When you ran the State of Oregon as Gov matter of this kind sent out through the country and that we ernor you tried to economize. You should take that position must cut this down some. I do not propose to cut out an here the same as you were when you were Governor of the amount that Will hamper or entirely cripple this Depart State of Oregon and try to protect the taxpayers of your ment, but I do believe it will stand a cut of $10,000 which I -state. Now you are interested in getting everything you can have proposed, and it will be a warning to those bureaus in out there. · Give us a break for the rest of this country. the Department to attend to their own business rather than Mr. PIERCE of Oregon. Certainly I am interested in the to be sending out propaganda throughout the United States welfare of my section, which adds to the general wealth of when they should be giving their time to administering the our country. I am interested in preserving forest grazing affairs of the national parks. and I am interested in preserving the public domain which The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Cali today we are administering under the Taylor Grazing Act, fornia [Mr. CARTER] has expired. and also to protect the integrity of the Treasury. [Applause.] Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I rise in [Here the gavel fell.] opposition to the amendment. The pro forma amendment was withdrawn. Mr. Chairman, I have profound respect for the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment from California, a very valuable member of the committee, offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. RieHl. but I did ask him a question, not intending to embarrass him, The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by but it did sound a little peculiar if not absolutely funny-- Mr. RICH) there were ayes 83 and noes 107. Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? So the amendment was rejected. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. In just a moment. It is sig The Clerk read as follows: nificant that the ·gentleman would so criticize the National PaiNTING AND BINDING Park Service for advocating an additional national park when For printing and binding for the Department of the Interior, the gentleman, as ·a member of the committee, was successful •275,970, of which $66,840 shall be for the National Park Service, in securing, without a Budget estimate last year, an appro $85,290 for the Bureau of Mines, and $54,500 for the omce of Education, no part of which shall be available for correspondence priation for the establishment of Crystal Cave. It all seems Instruction. to depend upon whose ox is gored, and by that I mean on whether or not a particular project happens to be in the diS Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment. trict of the gentleman from California as to whether or not The Clerk read as follows: it is advisable. People who live in glass houses should not Amendment offered by Mr. CARTER: On page 8, line 22, strike out throw too many stones. "$275,970" and insert in lieu thereof "$265,970." Mr. CARTER. Will the gentleman now yield? Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, this amendment has the Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I yield. effect of cutting down the appropriation for printing and Mr. CARTER. In the first place, I tried to explain to the binding in the Department of the Interior by $10,000. There gentleman that it was not for the establishment of a national are a great many of these bureaus and departments that are park. That national park has been established for 40 years. doing unnecessary printing. They are sending out all kinds Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. That, I submit, is beside the of pamphlets, and I hold in my hand one that was recentlY issue. The gentleman was not only willing but anxious to sent out under this caption: "United States Department of make the appropriation for Crystal Cave, which happens to the Interior, National Park Service, Washington, D. C." I be in the gentleman's district, without a sign of a Budget thought the National Park Service was created for· the pur estimate. pose of administering the parks. I want to say that I Mr. CARTER. In the second place, I do not like to have support them in doing that work. I am a supporter of the the gentleman flatter himself to the extent that he thinks he national-park system of this country. I believe the· national- could embarrass me on anything. .1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE ~737 Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I thank the gentleman for Mr. TREADWAY. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out his extreme politeness as well as his generosity. Certainly I the last word. meant no offense to the gentleman in the suggestion I made. Mr .. Chairman, one of the outstanding differences that has Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? occurred in this House over a comparatively small matter Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I shall be glad to yield to the during the last 5 years has had to do with the construction gentleman from Pennsylvania even if he- of the Thomas Jefferson Memorial in Tidal Basin. Many of Mr. RICH. I am not pleading for any appropriation for us felt that the Tidal Basin site was not the proper place anybody that is not good sound business, and I do not want to put any sort of memorial, particularly because it de any reflections of that kind cast, because if I were not run stroyed the conformity of the land there and removed nu ning true to form here and if you could get something on me, merous beautiful trees. But that question seems to have you would try to burn me up, but that cannot be done. gone by. The Congress saw fit to locate the Jefferson Me [Applause.] · . morial in Tidal Basin and those of you who come to the Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Since the gentleman has Capitol by that route can now see what destruction is taking made that statement, should a committee amendment be place in connection with the preparation of the foundation. offered at the suggestion of the gentleman from Pennsyl The Commission of Fine Arts is definitely opposed not only vania, will the gentleman vote for it or vote against it? to the location but to the style or type of architecture. We Mr. RICH. There will be no amendment offered by the Will pass over the location matter, because that point has gentleman from PeimSylvania that is not based on a sound already been decided. . The CommisSion of Fine Arts is a business basis. · My advice to the membership is that if they body consisting of unpaid people of outstanding merit, and think anything offered here is not on a sound basis they it has to do with the question of beautification in the city should not vote for it. That is what I say to the mem of Washington as well as elsewhere. Certainly we ought to bership. go a long way in being guided by its advice. Unfortunately Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma.· What 'is the gentleman's the architect selected by the Commission died before the final question? Does the gentleman desire. to ask a question or plans were approved. He approved what is known as the , .to make a speech? Greek Pantheon style of architecture, which others believe Mr. RICH. If the gentleman would keep away from per entirely wrong for that particulai- ltication. sonalities he would get further. I assure him of that. Now Mr. Chairman, the Commission of Fine Arts has recently let me ask the gentleman this question-- sent a report to Congress, which I have in my hand, condemn Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. The gentleman from Penn ing the architectural design. It seems to me we should go sylvania seems to be interested in making a speech: I am slow in approving a design which the Commission of Fine not casting any reflections on the gentleman, I am compli Arts does not approve. They say very definitely at the menting Members on trying to get additional appropriations bottom of page 2 of this report: for their districts. Finally, but · only after public announcement of the plans, the Mr. RICH. Thanks a lot for any compliments as well as Jefferson Memorial Commission decided to present the design for the memorial to the Commission of Fine Arts and the National . stones. Capital Park and Planning COmmission. The Commission met The Department spends a great deal of money for print jointly to consider Mr. Pope's scheme on March 20, 1937, and, to ing these beautiful illustrated booklets of the parks that it quote from the minutes of this meeting, "the design submitted by Mr. Pope, which called for a Pantheon type of memorial, was not passes out free. When an automobile comes to the park approved.'' · · bearing five people, they all want one of these free booklets, but if a small charge was made for these beautiful park There is the definite judgment of this Commission which is . booklets not only would the Department receive some re set up for the purpose of paSSing upon the merits of archi muneration and repaYn1ent of the cost of printing them, but tectural designs and fine arts, particularly in the city of in all likelihood not more than one booklet would be asked Washington. I commend this report to the consideration of for by the people in that car, instead of five, thus a great all the Members of the House . . It is stated also in this report saving. that in spite of the wrong location, the foundations for which Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. The gentleman is making a structure the sum of $500,000 has been . appropriated and speech. I thought he wanted to ask a question. What is contracted for, these very foundations may be used now for the gentleman's question? · the building of a colonnade style of memorial, which ·would Mr. RICH. Would it not be advisable to have a charge be much more appropriate and a better monument to Thomas m:;tde for these booklets? Would not this save considerable Jefferson than the ·Pantheon design, expense and waste of printed matter? Mr. Chamnan, it seems to me that the CommiSSion on the Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I may say tO the gentleman Jefferson Memorial ought to heed the advice of the Com from Pennsylvania that we have already made such ·a sug mission of Fine Arts and consider rejection o·f ihe Pantheon gestion to the Park Service. Because of that insistence we design and the adoption of the colonnade· design. Every have every reason to hope that in the future a small charge one should carefully peruse this document-which the Com ·will be made for such pamphlets. If the gentleman will take mission of Fine Arts has issued as a report to the Senate the time to read the committee report, he will find that the and 'House of Representatives concerning the Thomas Jef- committee this year recommended that in future a reason . ferson Memorial. If the Members of the House will read able charge be made for these pamphlets when more than ·this document carefully, I am certain the ·advice of the one is supplied to an automobile carrying visitors. Commission of Fine Arts Will be accepted and the colonnade style of architecture will be adopted instead of the Greek · Mr. RICH. I agree that statement was put in the report, Pantheon style. · but would we not more greatly impress upon the Department Mr. CULKIN. Will the gentleman yield? the desire of Congress that they do this if we cut the appro Mr. ·TREADWAY. I yield to the gentleman from New priations and sent that to the Department as our insistence York, a member of the Commission. that this is necessary? Could we do it in any better way Mr. CULKIN. I will have to ask the gentleman a pretty than by cutting $10,000 from this appropriation? long question.· · [Here the gavel fell.l Mr. TREADWAY. Why not take time later on? My time The CHAmMAN~ The question is on the amendment is about up. offered by the gentleman from California. Mr. CULKIN~ I will not ask the gentleman to yield, then. The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by [Here the gavel fell.] Mr. CARTER) there were--ayes 101, noes 111. . Mr. KELLER. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the So the amendment was rejected. pro forma amendment. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. Chairman, I want to call the attention of the Mem Total~ Commission o~ Fine Arts, $10,000. bers of the House to what my colleague on the Committee on 2738 CONGRE-SSIONAL RECORD-- HOUSE MARCH 14 the Library has said. During·the present week bids for the time in my hearing have conceded that a. memorial is either building of the Pantheon style will be opened by the Com desirable or necessary. mission. As pointed out in this document, if we are to finish May I give you a brief history of this memorial? I am a the Thomas Jeft'erson Memorial within the $3,000,000 pro member, unhappily perhaps, of the Thomas Jeft'erson Me vided for this monument, we will have to cheapen the whole morial Commission. The late John Boylan, a very distin structure. We will make it a matter of disgrace to us and guished, kindly, and splendid Member of the House, was chair I call the attention of the Members to that fact. If we do man. The present chairman is Stuart Gibboney, the man cheapen it to that extent, we ought to be ashamed to build who saved Monticello to the American people. Another mem it at all. ber of the Commission is Fiske Kimball, the leading Amer!can Mr. Chairman, we ought to be willing to build a great me authority on Jeft'erson in architecture. The many-sided Jef morial to a great man, as Jeft'erson was, but we should listen ferson was one of the first great architects in the history of to the Commission of Fine Arts that has been created for America. At the suggestion of the Fine Arts Commission, in this special purpose. Our failure to do so will re:flect on the which the present Chairman of that body concurred, we intelligence and courage of this House. selected John Russell Pope, now dead, to design the plan for I am speaking today with the object in view of serving this memorial. Before he died he completed the design, notice on the Commission that if it attempts to carry out a making it an exquisite and dignified composite of Jefferson's plan which will require another million dollars, when it can ideas in architecture. This plan had the unanimous ap have a much more beautiful and more appropriate monu proval of the Jeft'erson Commission; it had the approval of ment built to Jeft'erson than the present one now under the President of the United States; and it had the approval consideration, I shall oppose it in every way I know how. of everyone, including the Fine Arts Commission, at one time; Mr. TREADWAY. Will the gentleman yield? even the present Chairman of the Commission, whose only Mr. KELLER. I yield to the gentleman from Massachu claim to fame is tQat he is a good landscape gardener. setts. John Russell Pope, to my mind~ was probably the best ar Mr. TREADWAY. Was it not distinctly understood in the chitect not only in the history of America but in the history hearings held before the LibrarY Committee that the total of the world. His fame was known in every capital in Europe. cost to the Federal Government for the erection of the Jeft'er At the time of his death he was doing classical structures in son Memorial would not exceed $3,000,000? London, in Rome, and in Paris. Fully mindful of and know Mr. KELLER. It was. ing full well the Jeft'erson tradition in architecture as exem Mr. TREADWAY. The Commission states now it is impos pli:fled by Monticello, he has made this monument a com _sible to .carry out the plan which they are adopting and keep posite of all that Jeft'erson stood for in architecture. within the limit of $3,000,000? The opposition to this proposition, to both the site and the Mr. KELLER. That is true. tYPe of monument selected, is capricious and without Just Mr. Chairman, I propose that we call the attention of the foundation. Commission in such a way that they cannot misunderstand Mr. KELLER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield for the feeling of the House on this subject. _We are not going a question? to stand for a cheapened memorial and we are not going to Mr. CULKIN. I cannot yield now. stand for another m1llion dollars either, because neither is I said before that the Chairman of the Fine Arts Com necessary. We can build on the present foundation already mission, who, as I say, is probably a good landscape gar contracted for a columnar form of structure, which is more dener, seems to have the notion he must have his way on beautiful and which was endorsed by the Fine Arts Commis what shall be the particular design. He runs true to his sion as being the most appropriate. That is exactly what trade, for what he wants is a row of encircling colonnades, we ought to do. If the Commission is going to go along with which is typical of what goes in front of the average real this thing, I am going to oft'er a resolution in the House estate development. We have caused Jeft'erson to be reborn directing them in this matter. I want every Member of the again in Pope's brilliant, daring, and splendid architecture. House to understand exactly the reasons for this. We rest the case on that and we stand squarely on that Mr. Chairman, if the Members have not read this report of ground, every member of this Commission. The Commis the Commission of Fine Arts, I hope they will look over it sion is composed not of modest men like myself, with no particular technical equipment, but men who know Jefferson sufficiently to g~t a complete understanding of the subject, because it is one in which -the House is interested and for in architecture and who know his place in the history of which it is responsible. We should not appropriate the extra America. On the Commission is Gibboney, a Virginian of million dollars, and we should not permit the cheapening of Virginians, who rescued Monticello fr-Om destruction. What the present memorial. This memorial they propose to build service, may I :ask, except lip service, did the gentleman . down there is a duplicate, viewed from either side, of the from Tilinois [Mr. KELLER] ever render Jefferson's memory . front part of the National Gallery of Art now being erected. On that Commission, I repeat, we have -Fiske Kimball, the I called attention to that fact before the Committee on Ap leading authority on Jefferson in architecture, the man who .propriations a year ago before the money was appropriated wrote a book on Jeft'erson in architecture, and is at present for the building of the foundation. I regret that any appro director of the Philadelphia Museum of Fine Arts. priation was made until an agreement had been arrived at The secretary of the Commission is the gentleman from that would provide a . worthy memorial to this great man, Virginia, the Honorable HowARD W. Smm, who represents one acceptable to the Fine Arts ·Commission and to this . the Mount Vernon district. The cultured gentleman from House. Texas, the Honorable FRITz G. LANHAM is a member of the [Here the gavel fell.l - Commission. The Senate is represented on the Commission by Senator THoMAS of Utah, Senator McNARY, of Oregon, Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I ask unani and Senator ANDREWS, of Florida. The President's appoint mous consent that all debate on this paragraph -and all ments to the Commission include Thomas J. Coolidge, former amendments thereto close in _10 minutes . . Under Secretary of the Treasury, a lineal descendant of The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the Jefferson, and for a long time president of the· Museum of gentleman from· Oklahoma? Fine Arts of Boston, Mass.; also that deep student of Jef There was no objection. ferson, the former secretary to President Wilson, the Honor- Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last -able Joseph P. Tumulty, and Brig. Gen. Jefferson Randolph two words. Kean, a lineal descendant of Jefferson. We are honored also Mr. Chairman, we are beginning to see the land after a long by having as an associate member that great educator, Dr. voyage on a stormy sea in the matter of the Jeft'erson Me George J. Ryan, president of the Board of Education of morial. The distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts · New York City. We have had our d11ferences, but every and the distinguished gentleman· ·from Dlinois for the first ' conclusion of Ule Commission has been unanimous. · 1939 ,CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2739 This is the Commission that the House has charged with Member of this body. I do not expect it to be satisfactory the responsibility of the erection of this memoriaL The to those who are prejudiced and have fought the project House well knows . that the whole question is being ap tooth and nail since its inception, but I hope the Members proached ·with reverence and care, and ~t -- need not- be who are unptejudiced' in the matter will reserve their judg concerned by the ·idle vaporing of a landscape gardener ment until this Commission has an opportunity to submit to with a Bob Moses complex. The House will be kept advised you its report and its reasons for the action which it has of every step that the Commission takes, and can be assured taken. [Applause.] that Jefferson will live again in the glorious memorial now [Here the gavel fell.] proposed. · [Applause.] The Clerk read as follows: - . [Here the gavel fell.J NATIONAL BITUMINOUS COAL COMMISSION Mr. KELLER rose. Salaries and expenses: For all necessary expenditures of the Na · The CHAffiMAN. For what purpose does the gentleman tional Bituminous Coal Commission in performing the duties from Illinois rise? imposed upon said Commission by the Bituminous Coal Act of 1937, approved April 26, 1937 (50 Stat. 72), including personal serv Mr. KELLER. FGr the.purpose of suggesting that since my ices and rent in the District of Columbia and elsewhere; traveling name has been mentioned and my acts challenged, I have a expenses, including expenses of attendance at meetings which, perfect right to answer, and demand the time to do it. in the discretion of the Commission, are necessary for the efficient discharge of its responsibilities; contract stenographic reporting . The CHAffiMAN. The Committee, by unanimous consent, services; stationery and office supplies; purchase, rental, exchange, has ordered that all debate shall cease in 5 minutes from this operation, maintenance, and repair of reproducing, ·photographing, moment. By inference, this time was assigned to the gentle and other such equipment, typewriters, calculating machines, me man from Virginia [Mr. SMITH], who is recognized for 5 chanical tabulating equipment, and other office appliances and labor-saving devices; printing and binding; witness fees and fees minutes. and mileage in accordance with section 8 of the Bituminous Coal · Mr. SMITH of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I happen to repre Act of 1937; not to exceed $12,500 for purchase, exchange, hire, sent the congressional district within which is the home of maintenance, operation, and repair of motor-propelled passenger carrying vehicles, including one for use in the District of Columbia; Thomas Jefferson. · For that reason I assume I was made a garage rentals; miscellaneous items, including those for public in member of the Thomas Jefferson Memoriat Commission, and struction and information deemed necessary by the Commission; we on that Commission have served for something like 3 or 4 and not to exceed $6,000 for purchase and exchange of newspapers, years. . · . law books, reference books,. and periodicals, $2,900,000 : Provided, That expenditures during the fiscal year 1940 under this head and I think it unfortunate that whenever anything is done under the head "Salaries and expenses, Office of Consumers•·counsel, about erecting a memorial to that great statesman, of whom National Bituminous Coal Commission,'' shall not exceed an all political parties today love to boast, some incident should amount equal to the aggregate receipts covered into the Treasury during the period July 1, 1937, to June 30, 1940, under the pro arise in the matter· of criticism of the conduct of the Com visions of section 3 of the Bituminous Coal Act of 1937, after mission. None of us sought this duty. We are all trying to.do deducting therefrom the total expenditures under these heads for our duty in the best way possible. ~he period July 1, 1937, to June 30, 1939. I wish at this time to make only a brief statement on the - Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, a point of order. subject of this controversy. I may say the gentleman from : The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. Massachusetts and my good friend from Dlinois have both Mr. TABER. I make a point of order against the para attacked this memorial on numerous occasions on the floor. graph on the ground it delegates additional power and dis On two separate occasions, at least, the House by substantial cretion to the Commission, and I call particular attention to majorities has voted its will that!?. memorial to Thomas Jef lines 23, 24, and 25 of . page 9, which also contain the words ferson in the National Capital should be erected, and . that '·'in the discretion of the Commission." ought to settle the controversy. I hope it will not be futilely _ It seems to me this makes an appropriation and leaves the continued. The· question of dispute between the Fine Arts amount of the appropriation which shall be spent to the dis Commission and the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Commis cretion of the Commission or gives the Commission power to sion is also settled. . The act that created this Commission determine whether the appropriation should be made. It is directed the Commission, if it saw fit in its discretion, to ask the same thing as delegating authority to the Commission .to the advice-that is the language of the act-of the Fine Arts make an appropriation, and is clearly legislation. · Commission. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I desire to be I may say that we have constantly asked the advice of the heard in opposition to the point of order. Fine. Arts Commission, and in many, many instances. have If the distinguished gentleman from New York will read taken the advice of the Fine Arts Commission, and until.there title V, section 83, he will find full and ample authority for was a change in the chairmanship of the Fine Arts Commis the language to which he objects. sion never a tipple of controversy arose between the Jefferson Mr. DOWELL rose. Memorial Commission and the Fine Arts Commission. Ap parently the gentleman who is now Chairman of the Fine The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will hear the gentleman Arts Commission has misconStrued his function in connection from Iowa on the point of order later. · with the Thomas Jefferson Memorial. His function is to Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. This is a general provision advise, but by no stretch of the imagination is he given the of the code, title 5, section 83, which provides that no money authorityt o dictate to the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Com appropriated by any act shall be expended for membership mission, which is the creature of this Congress. · [Applause.] fees or dues of any officer or employee of· the United States in We went intO this subject. quite thoroughly with that gen the District of Columbia in any society or association or for expenses of attendance of any such persons at any meetin~ tleman and· With his predecessor· and With his Commission, unless specifically appropriated by Congress. The provision and we have tried in every way we could to ineet their wishes. in the bill grants this specific authority, as required by title 5, When the time canie that certain complications arose, which I shall not go into at this time, that Commission, after the section 83, of the United States Code, to which I have just most -studious debate and consideration of the matter, came referred. to the conclusion· that the type of memorial we selected was The CHAIRMAN. _The Chair would like to inquire of the the one that should be ·bUilt. · We acted upon this conclusion, gentleman from Oklahoma what his interpretation of the but we did not act upon it until after the Chairman of the word "meetings" is. · Does that include outside meetings or Memorial Commission had gone· to the White House and meetings of the Commission, or just what is his interpreta consulted with the President and the matter met with his tion of that word? approval. · · Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I think it might be held to I may say further, in conclusion, that we hope in a short include meetings other than ·meetings of the Commission. time to submit to the Congress a report of the actions of the The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Iowa desire to Thomas Jefferson Memorial Commission, which I trust and be J.1eard? believe will be entirely satisfactory to every unprejudiced · ·M:r: DOWELL. For just a moment, Mr. Chairman. 2740 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 I simply want to add that the proviso is clearly a limitation Gentlemen, what is going to happen when we raise coal to the statute that was passed in 1937 and that this provision prices? Are not coal substitutes going to be used in still cannot go beyond what was provided by law. greater quantities? Will not the consumption of coal be less The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is ready to rule. The Chair and will not more miners be thrown out of work? It does rules that the inclusion of the words "in the discretion of the not do any good to receive high prices for coal if you cannot Commission" is probably covered by the citation given by the sell your product. It does no good to give high wages 1f gentleman from Oklahoma [Mr. JOHNSON]. Title V, section miners do not get a chance to work for those wages. · 83, of the United States Code provides: Mr. BOLAND. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? That no money appropriated by ·any act shall be expended for Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. In just a moment. membership fees or dues of any omcer or employee of the United The CHAIRMAN. The time of .the gentleman from Penn States in any society or association, etc., or for the expenses or sylvania [Mr. ALLEN] has expired. attendance of any person at any meeting or convention of members of any society or association unless such fees, dues, or expenses are Mr. ALLEN of ,Pennsylvania. Mr. Cha~rman, I ask unani authorized to be paid by specific appropriations for such purpose mous consent to proceed for 5 additional minutes. and are provided for 1n express terms In some general appropriation. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the The language in the paragraph under consideration seems gentleman from Pennsylvania? to comply with that provision, and the point of order is There was no objection. overruled. Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. In reality we have handed Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chairman, I offer the the Bituminous Coal Commission a piece of legislation which following amendment which I send to the desk. I believe is absolutely impracticable. Do you realize that in The Clerk read as follows: the Appalachian area alone we are asking this Commission to establish something like 500,000 different individual mini Amendment offered by Mr. . ALLEN of Pennsylvania.: Page 10, Une 15, after the word "periodica.Is", strike out "$2,900,000" and Insert mum prices, each price changing according to the slight dif-· "$2,000,000... ference in freight rates ot the difference in the ash content of Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chairman, 4 years ago the. different coals or the sulphur content of the different Congress passed what is known as the first Guffey Coal Act. coals? I maintain that there is no commission on earth that That act, having been operative for nearly a year, was out can enforce or regulate 500,000 different prices. lawed in 1936. During its active life, enormous cost was Mr. ~OLAND. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? placed on the bituminous coal industry and absolutely no Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. In just a moment I will. benefits whatever were received by that industry. Two years The time has come for us to be fair and honest with the ago in April the second Guffey Coal Act was passed. The c?al operators and with the miners. My district is a large purpose of the act was to establish minimum prices, to elim bltuminous-coal district. . If this act had helped the operators, inate unfair trade competition and to bring order out of if it had helped the miners themselves, if those men were chaos. In considering this appropriation this afternoon, in working today, if the industry was prosperous or at least all fairness, we must realize that we have been experiment breaking even, I would be down here defending that Commis- ' ing for 4 years with this kind of legislation, and that during sion with all the energy I have. It has absolutely failed, how this whole period not one single effective minimum price has ever, and it will continue to fail until this act is clari1led and been established. The so-called cutthroat, destructive com amended, and until the contradictory featm'es are stricken petition has not been eliminated. It is as rampant today as out or the irreconcilable provisions corrected. Until the it was 4 years ago, and instead of bringing order, we have Commission can justify its existence, or until we can help brought greater chaos to what can now be considered a com them to function efficiently and satisfactorily, it is our duty paratively orderly industry. Conditions, if anything, have this afternoon to save this industry, which is sick and facing grown steadily worse. At this point I want it understood that destruction, this $900,000. The time has come for the Coal I do not blame the chaotic condition of the bituminous coal Commission to prove by actual facts and accomplishments industry at the present time on the Commission altogether, that they can justify their existence. We must cease trusting but I do say that in spite of the millions of dollars that have in their everlasting promises that something constructive been expended during the past 4 years, it has failed to correct is going to be done. I hope my amendment will be upheld. the evils which obtain in the industry, and has failed to check Mr. BOLAND. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman . yield the downward spiral in that industry. In 1936 the bitumi now? · nous coal industry lost six and a half million dollars; in 1937 Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. I yield to my colleague. they lost $30,000,000; and in 1938, $68,000,000 . . All this shows Mr. BOLAND. Is it not a fact and does not the gentle that during the period in which this act has been in force man know that the only way to stabilize the bituminous the conditions have grown steadily worse, and no corrective coal industry is with a minimum wage and minimum price measure or step has been taken. for coal? Is it not a fact and does not the gentleman know. be More mines that were hitherto profitable are facing bank~ it to a fact that 80 percent of the bituminous coal oper ruptcy today than ever before. More mines are closed down ators want this legislation, and is it not a fact that 95 per today than ever before, and there are more miners ··out of cent of the workers in the bituminous coal fields want this legislation and this appropriation? work than there ~ere before the act was passed. You are going to be asked to give this Commission another chance. Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. My answer is that if there You are going to be told that because of litigation and ntis is any operator in my district who wants this legislation he understanding their worK: has been hindered, but I believe has been silent and I have not .heard from him, and every that 4 years and the expenditure of some $23,700,000 is long single letter which I have in my :ftles from my own district enough to experiment with any legislation of this kind. I and other districts protest the continuation of this act. do not believe we should be called upon today to give this Mr.- BOLAND. I can inform the gentleman .from Penn Commission further opportunity to waste more money, for sylvania that 80 percent of the operators of the bituminous that is what it amounts to. At the present time we are coal fields want this legislation. exactly where we were when we started, as far as legislation Mr. ALLEN of ·Pennsylvania. I can only answer the gen and enforcement are concerned, except that conditions in tleman as I already have, that no operator has told me that the industry are far worse than before, and there is abso he favors the act, and all the letters I have received are lutely no light ahead. During the past 4 years, as I have opposed to this legislation in its present form. said, we taxed this already sick .industry $23,700,000, a sum Mr. HOOK. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman y1eld? of money which it cannot afford to lose. We are told that Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. I yield. in May perhaps the first minimum prices are going to be Mr. HOOK. Will the gentleman tell me how he is going fixed, and on the other hand we are told that fuel oil and to make this Commission operate more e:fllciently by cutting other coal substitutes. are eating into the bituminous-coal off $900,000? Why not· cut out the other $2,000,000 if it is industry. all waste? 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2741 Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. I will say to the gentleman The amendment just offered proposes ta cut the appro that during the 4 years this Commission has been in exist priation from $2,900,000 to $2,000,000. The effect of this ence they have gathered all necessary data together and would be to seriously hamstring the Commission in the issu have all the information they need to establish ·. minimum ance of its price findings and justification thereof. If this prices. If they are going to do anything, they can do it Commission is authorized-if it is desirable to regulate the now with no further need for the huge force which they bituminous coal industry, give them a chance. Your Appro-· have employed to gather this information in the past. That priations Committee decided that the appropriation of $2,- is my answer to that. 900,000 for the Commission and of $285,000 for the consum Mr. EBERHARTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman ers' counsel was a sufficient and proper sum of money to yield? enable them to continue in the manner indicated by the Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. I yield. law. Mr. EBERHARTER. Does the gentleman know whether Let me again repeat that if this amendment is adopted to the United Mine Workers in his district have, as a body, taken reduce the item to $2,000,000, you might as well, in my a stand in favor of giving the National Bituminous Coal opinion, cut off the appropriation entirely. Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Commission the entire appropriation mentioned in this bill? Mr. SCRUGHAM. I yield. . Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. I believe they have: That is, Mr. CARTER. If this item is cut to $2,000,000 we would the leaders. The rank and file of the miners do not know just be wasting the $2,000,000, would we not? Is it not a what is facing them today. They do know that they are fact that the Coal Commission is just about to put these unemployed, thousands of them. At a labor meeting last rates into effect? In fact they will be in effect within the Saturday night I challenged any representative of the mine next few months, and in less than a year it can be deter workers who had benefited by this act to stand on his feet, mined whether or not this work is going to be effective. and not a single one of them arose. Mr. SCRUGHAM. In my opinion, yes. The increased Mr. WHITE of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman amount over and above the amount the gentleman from yield? Pennsylvania suggested in his amendment is necessary be Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. I yield. cause there has to be a certain flexibility in fixing these prices Mr. .WHITE of Ohio. I want to call the gentleman's atten on coal. The very reason.mentioned by the gentleman from tion to the hearings, wherein the members of the Bittm:J.inous Pennsylvania [Mr. ALLEN], namely, there are competitive Coal Commission themselves, as well as the representative of fuels, there are competitive subStitutes, and as the price of the consumers' counsel, said they could not successfully estab the substitute fluctuates the price of coal has to be adjusted lish minimum prices and administer the Bituminous Coal Act accordingly. The Coal Commission has to maintain a force for the coal industry unless and until a similar regula:tion was adequate to deal with these variable factors. applied to competing fuels. Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mr; ALLEN of Pennsylvania. That is correct. Mr. SCRUGHAM. I yield. The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Penn Mr. RICH. Is it not a fact that we have spent $8,150,000 . sylvania has again expired. and the Commission itself admitted that they had not . Mr. SCRUGHAM. The Bituminous Coal Act of 1937, ap accomplished anything? proved April 26, 1937, declares that- Mr. SCRUGHAM. That is not exactly correct. On page 614 of the hearings appears a table of the tax collections. Regulation of the sale and distribution in interstate commerce of bituminous coal is imperative for the protection of such commerce; It will be noticed that the money is raised on the basis of that there exists practices and methods of distribution and market a tax of 1 cent a ton. This money does not come entirely ing of such coal that waste the coal resources of the Nation and out of the Treasury of the United States as money that is disorganize, burden, and obstruct interstate commerce in bitumi nous coal, with the result that regulation of the prices thereof and not reimbursable. If the gentleman is interested in cumu of unfair methods of competition therein is necessary to promote lative figures the gentleman will see that the estimated total · interstate commerce in bituminous coal and to remove burdens and at the end of the fiscal year 1940, of tax collections; is $10,- obstructions therefrom. 097,399 whereas the total expenditures to that same date· For that reason the Coal Commission was created. It has will be $10,713,373 less $615;000, the reduction made by the been operating approximately only 2 years instead of 4. The . committee. In the judgment of the committee the cumula reasons for the delay of price fixing are' given on page 585 tive appropriations and the cumulative collections should be of the hearings. I inquired of Mr .. Tetlow: approximately the same. Mr. ScauGHAM. What was ·the basic reason for the failure of the Mr. RICH. The point I wanted to make was ·that after· first price code set up? having spent $8,500,000, whether the money_came from the Mr. TETLow. A question of the procedure, sir, under which the Federal Treasury or from the coal companies, they should. Commission estab~ished minimum prices on December 16, 1937. have accomplished something long, long before this. · The interpretation of the act was such that it was quite difficult for an administrative body to decide what the law provided and Mr. FADDIS. Mr. Chairman, I .rise in opposition to the what it should consider to be due process in dealing with the rights amendment. of consumers or producers, and in having fair hearings out of Mr. Chairman, anyone who has known the bituminous which minimum prices could be established. coal industry all his life is bound to realize that throughout This act provides for the establishment of prices, and it also provides that any producer, State, political subdivision, or other the entire history of its existence it has been in the most party at interest had a right to file a petition for modification of chaotic state of any industry in the United States; and as the any price schedule. years go by in this industry, which employs so many men, The Commission felt that it had complied with the requirements of the act, but, unfortunately, the courts decided otherwise. The conditions become worse with each year. The only solution Commission, out of the interpretations and decisions of the court, I can possibly see for this problem is for them to be subject is now better informed. Certainly, we now have a better under to the regulation of some commission such as this. The gen standing of the requirements of the law. At that time on account tleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. ALLEN] in his statement of of the invalidation of certain prices established by the Commis sion for railroads and other large consumers of coal, the Com losses of from twenty to sixty million dollars per year in this mission was compelled to suspend the prices in effect because of industry furnishes a good and sufficient reason for the con the unfairness of enforcing these prices on those who had not been tinuance of the present appropriation for this Commission. given relief. Surely an industry cannot be expected to continue operating It would have meant a continual attack on these prices in the courts, because of the procedure followed. at a loss. Due process, of course, is a requirement that administrative I think it will be interesting to the membership of this bodies must meet, and they must conduct themselves so that all Committee this afternoon to know why this industry is so parties of interest will have a fair hearing. Out of that comes demoralized. About 40 years ago when practically the only the necessity of establishing the facts in a public record that is reviewable in the courts, and the administrative body is required fuel used for steel making in the United States was coke, made· to make its findings and its decisions upon such a record. ' from bituminouS coal, and bituminous coal was the modern 2742 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 streamlined fuel for railroads, ships, all steam plants, and for having to do with the Coal Commission. Hearings of con heating purposes, various industries expended vast sums of siderable length were held and we did reduce the amount of money buying coal in the ground. They bought vast acreages the appropriation asked for by $600,000. I think I am stating of coal all over the United States and tied up a great deal of the matter correctly when I say it was the opinion of the money. Later on other fuels came into competition with members of this subcommittee that the Commission should bituminous coal, but because of the great amount of money be permitted to continue with the work presently before it, which had been.expended initially to buy up coal fields, many that these rates which they hope to put into effect this spring, of these various companies found themselves in the position perhaps in May or June, should be put into effect and the re of having white elephants on their hands. Interest and taxes sult obtained from the establishment of those rates noted go on and they are forced to operate. Overhead in the mines and studied by the Congress. opened goes on whether the mines work or not. These con Mr. Chairman, I stated a .while ago that the result of this ditions were intensified as a result of the expansion during motion will be to waste $2,000,000 and would place the Bitu the World War. In consequence we have today an industry minous Coal Commission in a position where they cannot do in which cutthroat operations are inevitable unless some anything. I agree with the gentleman from Pennsylvania regulation is in force. In .this cutthroat competition both [Mr. FADDIS] that it would be far better business to cut out the operators and the miners suffer. The bituminous-coal the whole thing than to leave the Commission in a position mining industry in the United States employs about 600,000 where it could spend $2,000,000 and still be unable to achieve individuals. 'l;'hey are for the most part men who are the its objective. I am sure it is the sentiment of the coal in least fitted of any men in the Nation to turn their hands to dustry, the coal miners, and the sentiment of the overwhelm some other occupation when unemployed in the coal mines. ing majority of the people of this country that these rates Many of these men were brought here from Europe years ago should be put into effect and a fair, square chance given the for the express purpose of working in these mines. As con Coal Commission to see whether or not it can produce ditions in the coal fields have caused increasing unemploy beneficial results. ment. amongst this class>of people they have had to be taken Mr. Chairman, I ask the Committee to vote down the pend care of, but they are the hardest class of people in the United ing amendment. States to take care of. [Here the gavel fell.] The, amendment offered by the gentleman from Pennsyl Mr. EDMISTON. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the v.ania [Mr. ALLEN], if agreed to, .will strike from the appro pro forma amendment. priation to be made to the Bituminous Coal Commission the sum of $900,000. May I call the attention of the members Mr. Chairman, I represent one of the largest coal-mining districts in this country. and my district is certainly not in of the Committee this afternoon to the fact that this Com mission the only commission or board in this appropria accord with the views expressed by the gentleman from iS Pennsylvania [Mr. ALLEN] who has offered the pending tion bill which pays its own way. As a matter of fact, the amendment. I would say that 95 percent of the miners in gentleman from Oklahoma [Mr. Jo~soNl intimated to the my district are in favor of the legislation and 80 percent of committee in his opening statement that if that committee had known there was a million dollars coming to this Com t~e operators are also in favor of the legislation. mission which had not yet been collected, that committee The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. ALLEN] has said would not have cut the $600,000 which was originally cut in his remarks that the Commission had done nothing and from the Bituminous Coal Commission. I wish it distinctly that the industry is in a worse condition now than it ever understood that the Commission has paid its own way to the was. I challenge that statement. There is at least peace full extent of the $2,900,000 already appropriated and is a in the coal industry of this country today, which was prac million don&rs to the good. The money has been turned tically unknown until legislation of this sort was put on the into the 'Treasury of the United States. This is the only statute books. The miners are getting a living wage for their commission included in the pending bill that is paying its day's work. They are not working for starvation wages. own way, the only one that is self-supporting, yet here is a The industry is peaceful and the men are working. When move to cut its appropriation. the Coal Commission has finished its job, which is about 80 Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman from Pennsylvania has so to 90 percent completed, there are many of us who believe little faith in this Commission, as he appears to have, why that the chaotic condition which for years has existed in the should his motion not include striking out the entire amount industry will be remedied. for this Commission? After all we are led to suspect this During the past 23 years the Congress of the United States must be a sort of private feud the gentleman is carrying on has made some 19 investigations of the bituminous-coal in to hamstring this Commission by cutting off $900,000 of its dustry~ and out of those hearings and studies has come the appropriation. If it is in such bad repute with· the gentle Guffey coal bill. Many of us are disappointed that it is not man, why did he not· offer a motion to do away with the functioning at the present time. We would like to have it do whole appropriation and thereby elimin.ate the entire Com- so. However, many difficulties were encountered in trying to mission? · do the job. Mr. MAY. Will the gentleman yield? There are some 15,000 operating bituminous coal mines in Mr. FADDIS. I yield to the gentleman from Kentucky. this country, and every one of them has to have its own con Mr. MAY. I ·suspect the gentleman had an idea if he did ditions met and its own price fixed. On account of that fact that it would meet with the same fate that an amendment alone, it has been a big job which this Commission has been proposing to abolish the Labor Relations Board by with called upon to do. So let us give them a chance to see if it drawing its appropriation met when there were only 15 votes cannot get to functioning properly and enjoy prosperity. cast in favor of the amendment. I want to emphasize that the $2,900,000 which the com Mr. FADDIS. Very likely, and therefore seeks only to mittee has recommended is not cOsting the taxpayers of this hamstring the Commission. Here is another thought I country one thin dime. It is being put up by the industry would like to leave with the Committee. There were 600,000 itself at the rate of 1-cent-a-ton tax on bituminous coal. . individuals engaged in this industry last year and 40,000 of these men have been replaced by loading machinery. The Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. Will the gentleman yield? conditions in respect to the miners are bad enough at the Mr. EDMISTON. I yield to the gentleman from Pennsyl best, so, in the name of simple justice, give this Board a vania. chance. [Applause.] Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. Does the gentleman feel [Here the gavel fell.l that the bituminous coal industry today can afford to pay Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the this 1-cent tax? And further, why should it be called upon last two words. . to pay a tax when no other industry receiving benefits of · Mr. Chairman, may I say that the members of the subcom any kind from the Government is called upon to pay a tax? mittee gave deliberate consideration to this particular item Mr. EDMISTON. I will answer the gentleman's question. 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2743 Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. Does the gentlemen believe we tucky was that he be permitted to proceed for 10 minutes~ should put this tax on the bitUminous coal industry alone? Is the request of the gentleman from Oklahoma that debate · Mr. EDMISTON. Any coal operator who cannot operate be limited to 50 minutes, in addition to the 10 minutes to be because they put a 1-cent-a-ton tax on him ·_:ought to get allotted to the gentleman from Kentucky? out of the business anyway. When he is averaging, as he Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. That is correct. does in my country, better than $2 a ton for his coal, the The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the 1-cent-a-ton tax is not going to bother him. And he is pay gentleman from Oklahoma? ing his miners a living wage, a minimum of $5.10 per day There was no objection. for 7 hours' work. The object of this act is to give the op The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the erator a fair profit and the miner a living wage. gentleman from Kentucky that he be permitted to proceed Not since the World War until the N. R. A., when the for 10 minutes? - coal industry was under Government regulation, has the There was no objection. industry made any money. The operators were in bank Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Mr. Chairman, ladies, and ruptcy and the miners were starving. Let us give the Com gentlemen, the coal industry is one of the great necessary mission a chance to do its job, and I believe the money spent key industries of the Nation, both in peace and in war~ will be the best investment the industry has ever made. Next to the railroads it furnished more work for more men · Mr. MAY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? than any other industry. It pays the highest wages of any Mr. EDMISTON. I yield to the gentleman from Kentucky. industry, even higher than the wages paid to railroad work Mr. MAY. I hope the gentleman will discuss also the ers. It provides 20 percent of all of the freight loadings of vital importance of the coal industry to the railroad in the country, and that is double the amount provided by any dustry, and the fact that the men who work in the railroad other industry. More than $4,000,000,000 are invested in the industry and the coal industry are paid by the mine operators soft-coal industry. and the railroad owners the highest wages of any industries A distinguished committee of mining engineers appointed in the country. by the United States Coal Commission estimates · that we Mr. EDMISTON. That is true. I thank the gentl~man for have bituminous-coal and lignite..;coal reserves amounting to his contribution. · . . 1,625,050,000,000 tons. Kentucky alone has 62,290,000,000, Mr. WALTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Pennsylvania has 34,920,000,000, Dlinois has 53,920,000,000, Mr. EDMISTON. I yield to the gentleman from Pennsyl Indiana ·has. 26,640,000,000 tons, and West Virginia has vania. 66,540,000,000 tons of soft coal. Mr. WALTER. Does the gentleman believe it would be When the Nation is reasonably prosperous, there should fair to interfere with the operation of this agency just at a be produced and consumed in the neighborhood of 500,000,000 time when it is ready to proceed with the sort of work it tons of soft coal annually and provide employment for more was set up to accomplish? than 450,000 miners. It can and does provide much of the Mr. EDMISTON. I just pointed out that their job is 80 light and power for industry, the homes, the schools, the to 90 percent done. Let us give them a chance to see if they churches, and. cities. It is frightful to contemplate what cannot do what many of us believe it is possible to accom would happen if the supply of coal of the Nation should be plish. suddenly cut off. It can be seen at once how important this Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. Mr. Chairman, will the industry is to the welfare of industry, labor, agriculture, and gentleman yield? commerce. Mr. EDMISTON; I yield to the gentleman from Wis HAS IT HELPED OR HURT PRODUCERS AND MINERS? consin. What I have to say is not for the purpose of cutting down Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. If we subsidize the expan the appropriation for the Commission, or for the purpose of sion of hydroelectric power development much further there criticizing the Commission. There was a great deal of will be no place for the bituminous coal industry. . politics in the set-up of the Commission, and a lot of con Mr. EDMISTON. If the gentleman will look up my record fusion. The President had to take a hand and did partially he will find I vote against it consistently, for that very straighten these matters out. I really do not t.hfnk any of reason. the appropriation the Commission has asked for in this bill [Here the gavel fell.] should be denied to it. I want this act and·this Commission Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Mr. Chairman, I move to to have a full and fair test. If we should reduce the appro strike out the last three words. priation now when the Commission insists they will submit Mr. Chairman, I have not used any time on this bill and a code of minimum prices in May 1939, and then the Com~ have information here. that, as a friend of this legislation, I mission should continue to fail to bring about better times - should like to give to the Committee, so I ask unanimous con in the soft-coal industry, th~ Congress would be blamed. i sent that I may proceed for 5 additional minutes. I shall not do not want the Commission to have any alibi if the plan ask any other time. does fail. Let us give the act and the Commission full The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Kentucky asks · opportunity to prove or discredit itself. However, I think unanimous consent to proceed for · 10 minutes. Is there the Congress and the country ought to know. if any benefits objection? up to this time have been derived from this act or the Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, reserving the Commission, and on the other hand if the coal industry and right to object, and I shall not .object, I wonder if we can miners have been helped or ·hurt. not agree on some limitation of debate at this time. I ask In 1937 there were produ,ced 442,455,000 tons of bituminous unanimous consent that all debate on this paragraph and all coal. In 1938 there were produced only 342,308,000 tons. amendments thereto be concluded in 50 minutes. It will be seen that there were 100,048,000 less tons produced Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. Reserving the right to object, · in 1938 than there were in 1937. In 1929 there were pro Mr. Chairman, has the gentleman counted the Members on duced 539,989,000 tons. That was 192,582,000 more tons than their feet, so we can each have 5 minutes? were produced in 1938, afte:~; we had the Guffey Coal Act Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. That was my thought. Ten and the Bituminous Coal Commission for nearly 2 years. Members were on their feet. What the miners desired was more jobs, not less jobs. Mr. DOWELL. Reserving the right to object, may I have What the operators desired who favored the Guffey Coal 5 minutes ·of that time? Act was an increase of production, not loss. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. That is my understanding, The United States Bituminous Coal Commission estimates I i:nay say to the gentleman. that the bituminous-coal industry lost $37,000,000 in 1937. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will divide the time equally This industry, it is estimated, lost somewhere between $60, among the gentlemen who were on their feet at the time the ooo,ooo and $100,000,000 in 1938. The results ~re just the request was made. The Chair may say to the gentleman opposite to what the operators and miners desired, and what from Oklahoma that the request of the gentleman from Ken- the Congress had hoped for when the Guffey Coal Act was 2744 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 passed and the Bituminous Coal Commission was appointed can make a contract to furnish coal to any concern or and took charge of the coal industry. individual for a period beyond 30 days. They must run I must confess that I have been greatly disappointed. My their business on a hand-to-mouth basis. A coal mine can district produces a large tonnage of the highest grade of not run and do any good that way. bituminous coal. I have been very anxious at all times to Furthermore. under the Guffey Coal Act the coal pro speak and support measures that would, in the opinion of the ducers themselves must pay not only their social-security tax coal operators as well as the miners, create greater produc and other taxes, but they must pay i :Y2 cents a ton to carry tion and provide more jobs. The results of the Gutrey Coal on certain activities of the Coal Commission and other Act and the efforts of the Bituminous Coal Commission are activities in the enforcement of the act; and then there is most disappointing to me. such a restriction on sales contracts as we are advised The bill before us is an appropriation bill. No amend greatly hampers the production and sale of coal. Another ment to the Guffey Coal Act would be in order here. The producer of coal writes: Ways and Means Committee would have to submit a bill to To the Guffey Coal Act is mainly attributable the demoralized repeal or amend the Gutrey Coal Act. One of the provisions condition of the coal business at this time, With a resulting hard in this bill merely makes appropriation for the Bituminous ship on the employees (miners) who make their 11V1ng that way. An amendment should be made so that the tax, the 30-day clause, Coal Commission. and the marketing provisions will be eliminated. GUFFEY COAL ACT The miners and the coal operators generally, and the peo Mr. MAY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? ple of the Nation, as well as the Congress, felt that some Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Just as soon as I read one action was necessary to stabilize this industry ·and stabilize or two more of these letters. the price of coal. Perhaps coal operators representing 80 Here is one dated March 9, 1939: percent of the tonnage of soft coal and most of the miners The Coal Act of 1937 has been an experiment costly to the indus urged the adoption of the Guffey Coal Act. Congress passed try in extra taxes, extra expenses, and loss of realization. Its continuation will benefit none. It has hurt the coal business and this act in 1935, but the Supreme Court held that act to be at the same time has thrown tens of thousands of miners out of unconstitutional. A new Guffey Coal Act was passed and work. The 30-day limitation on contracts is particularly harmful. became effective in April 1937. The constitutionality of this Here is another letter dated February 22, 1939: last act appears to have the approval of the courts. The coal industry is in a terrible shape and we think the Guf The Bituminous Coal Commission was appointed. It set fey Coal Act is responsible. We have no hopes of a price ever up an elaborate and expensive organization and set about being established that will ever be fair to all or anyway near to all. to stabilize the indust.ry and prices of soft coal. It did fix minimum prices for the coal generally. Because the Com Then another letter dated February 28, 1939: mission had failed to observe the law and hold hearings and There is no question but what it has had a very ruinous effect on the industry. For over 2 years the Bitminous Coal Commis give the producers and consumers of soft coal an opportu sion has been trying to find a way to make it work, and I say to nity to be heard the courts set aside the order of the Com you frankly that it is the opinion of nearly all of the operators mission fixing these prices, and for a year or more the that it is impossible to make it work. Commission has been holding hearings and gathering data I am not unfriendly to this or any other measure that has to fix a new code of minimum prices. The Commission has for its purpose to help the coal industry and the miners. I let it be known that this new order will be made in May. strongly favor measures that will help the coal industry and WHAT ARE THE RESULTS? help the coal miners. The coal industry_cannot continue to It is quite clear from the letters and telegrams I have lose these large sums of money and neither can the coal received from all parties interested in this great industry miners continue to be without work with their families suf the producers as well as the miners-that they, too, have fering from hunger and cold. [Applause.] been disappointed and there is not that overwhelming senti Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania and Mr. MAY rose. ment for the Gutrey Coal Act that there was when it was Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. I yield first to the gentleman passed. from Pennsylvania. I read from the following letters that will give the Con Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. I want it understood that I gress and the country some impression as to their attitude feel exactly the same way about that, and I agree with now. Here is a letter of February 24, 1939: what the gentleman has said about the condition of the We are appealing to you to help have the Guffey Coal Act coal industry; but does not the gentleman believe also that if amended so that the 30-day clause, the tax, and the market pro vision w1ll be eliminated. This law has completely demoralized the minimum prices are established, which will be higher the coal business, and unless some relief is given through amend than the prices which they are receiving today, this will ment of this law, many coal companies will be forced to the wall. drive the consumer more and more to the use of coal sub Here is another letter dated February 25, 1939: stitutes, especially when the fact is considered that the pro At the end· of almost 2 years, the Gu1fey Coal Act has accom ducers of the substitutes can contract for a year if they want plished nothing for the coal industry. On the other hand, it · to, as against 30 days in the coal industry? has cost approximately $20,000,000 in taxes and District Boa.rd IS THE G~ COAL .ACT WORKABLE? expenses and direct cash out-of-pocket expenses to producers (coal operators). Due to the restriction on the sales ,contracts Mr. ROBSION of KentuckY. I thank the gentleman. I and the uncertainty of this law hanging over the industry, it has, am wondering if the Congress has not handed to the Com in my opinion, cost the industry an additional $50,000,000 to mission an impossible task. There are tens of thousands of •75,000,000 in losses. · coal mines in the Nation with difference in the thicknesses These are reliable coal people who were friendly to and of the seams of coal, the quality of the coal, the distance urged the passage of the act. from the market, and many other material factors that Mr. MAY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? enter into the cost of production• and value of the coal. Is · Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. I yield to the gentleman it reasonably possible for this Commission to fix prices that from Kentucky. will not greatly favor one coal mine or one section of the Mr. MAY. I wonder if the gentleman will not agree with country as against another coal mine in another section of me that the reasons there were so many coal miners unem the country with different thickness.of seam, quality of coal. ployed during the period to which he refers were through and location to the consuming markets? Will it not be nec the competition of hydroelectricity, the competition of fuel essary for them to fix thousands of prices and then, with oil shipped into this country, and the competition of natural changing conditions in industry and agriculture, can the gas. None of these is a labor-employing industry. Commission from day to day . or from month to month Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. They are contributing change these prices to meet these changing conditions? factors. Under this act the Commission has virtually taken over the One trouble about the Guffey Coal Act is that no coal coal-mining industry in this country. How can a commis company under that act and the orders of the Commission sion and its assistants here in Washington determine with 1939 CONGRESSIO_NAL RECORD-HOUSE 2745 any degree of fairness and accuracy all of these many, many my honest opinion they do not come within the law and the questions? Commission is exceeding the authority given it by Congress There is another complication that enters into this problem and the powers granted it by Congress under the Constitu that is outside of the power .of the Commissio:g, 1_ ~As we in tjon to interfere~ with these little local mines. For instance, crease the price of coal it increases the use of crude oil, in my home county there is not a ton of coal shipped into natural gas, and hydroelectric power. The Commission here the county from any part of Kentucky or any other State. can only regulate and fix prices on one of the four chief fuels There are several of these little local truck or wagon mines. of the Nation. It can put the halter on .coal, but it can do They are all warned to join the coal code and they are pre nothing about oil, gas, or electrical power. If this matter can sented from time to time with claims for taxes of 19% per be handled at all by the Government, the Commission must cent of the market price of the coal. That means about 39 have jurisdiction to control these f9ur fuels. cents on the ton. The administration refuses to put a protective tariff on the The great trouble with theN. R. A. and its administration hundreds of millions of barrels of fuel oil that have been was that· they tried to make it apply to restaurants and shipped into this country' in competition and used in compe pressing shops and strictly local businesses. The good effects tition with coal. The Government has taken the tax money were destroyed because the N. R. A. attempted too much. of the coal producers, as well as the coal miners, and developed The Coal Commission has put in force the 30-day provision hydroelectric power. This has operated heavily ag_ainst the that no coal company can make any contract to furnish any producers of .coal and the miners in Kentucky, Tennessee, coal for a longer period than 30 days. It has put into effect Virginia, West Virginia, Alabama, and other States. The the heavy taxing provisions and other provisions greatly coal mines and miners furnished the coal to run the shops, handicapping the coal industry, and places the coal industry factories, and mills, heat the homes, and light the cities and at such a very great disadvantage that unless something is towns. Now they are getting power subsidized by . the Gov done oil, hydroelectric power, and natural gas will cripple ernment, and this has taken away hundreds of millions of this great coal industry beyond the means of recovery and tons of coal business and the work of hundreds of thousands will add to the great army of 100,000 or more unemployed of miners. This administration is doing that to the soft miners. coal industry and to the coal miners of the Nation. I sincerely hope that the Commission will demonstrate its Great pipe lines have -been_ and are being put in to pipe ability under the Guffey Act to help the soft-coal industry natural gas for long distances. For instance, there are pipe and the coal miners. It has had ·nearly 2 years, and unless lines leading from Texas into and through coal fields in Ken substantial results do show in the near future there will be a tucky, and there are pipe lines leading from West Virginia real effort to repeal or modify this act and do away with this and other States into and through coal fields in Kentucky. expensive Commission. There is no restriction put on these three fuels, but coal is Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. ·Mr. Chairman, a · great many taxed and haltered, and that industry and the miners are people in the United States-! dare say practically 90 per- suffering tremendously; and, as pointed out, there are 100,000 . cent of them-have never seen a coal mine. I dare say that less miners at work today than there were in 1937, and in 1938 75 percent of the people of the United States have never we produced over 100,000,000 tons of coal less than in 1937; seen a coal miner. Unfortunately, there has always been and the coal business lost $37,000,000 in 1937 and from a prejudice in the minds of many people against the coal $60,000,000 to $100,000,000 in 1938, and it is not getting any industry and the men who mine coal. Do you not know that better. the coal miners have contributed more than the membership It is little wonder that the coal industry and the miners of all the other unions of all kinds to the uplift of the labor who favored this legislation in the beginning are losing faith ing man in the world for the past· 50 years? There is no in the act and in the Commission and are losing faith in the question about that. I cannot give you this as an exact administration's pledge to put this industry on its feet and fact, but I _think the second largest number of people em put the miners to work. The administration should give the ployed in any industry in the United States are the coal industry and miners protection against the low-priced crude miners. In the last week we have seen in this House a oil that is being shipped into this country from Mexico, South psy~hology that is very unfavorable to the Guffey Coal Act. America, and other countries . . It should give them protection Why? It is largely because the poor old coal miner and the against unfair competition on account of hydroelectric power. coal industry have once more been compelled to bear the It is unfair to require the taxpayers of the Nation as a whole burdens of other industries. Just last week someone rose to give a bounty to the users of hydroelectric power in com iiere in this House and, by amendment to the reorganization petition with coal, and it is likewise unfair to have no restric bill, took out of its purview those who come within the scope tions on natural gas and place such heavy restrictions on of this Bituminous Coal Commission's activities. They took coal and the miners. them out with apparent satisfaction and nobody stood up THE COMMISSION ATTEMPI'S TOO MUCH for them or the Commission, because the time was not Congress is limited in its powers to the regulation of inter appropriate. But the time is appropriate now to stand up state commerce and intrastate commerce where it is in such for this organization and these miners and coal producers quantities as to depress and retard interstate commerce. · and defend them. Certainly the. Commission has made mis This Commission has declared that all soft-coal mines in takes, and its greatest mistake has been its unfortunate · Kentucky and many other States are engaged in ·interstate name-the Guffey Coal Act. Probably no public man was commerce · and collie within the Guffey Coal Act. In my quite so much deserving of the spanking he received in last district as well as in others, a great many of the farms have year's elections as this man GUFFEY. He and his political a little coal bank on them to provide coal for the farmer and manipulations are more responsible for the unfavorable atti his family, and some of these sell a small quantity of coal in tude that many people show toward the Commission and the neighborhood. · While at home this summer, quite a its work than any other one thing. Clean his influence out number of farmers came to see me and complained time and of this situation and you have gone a long way in restoring again that persons representing the Coal Commission· had the confidence of the people in the Commission and its called upon them and were trying to force them to adopt the purposes. Certainly there was politics in the activities of coal code and place themselves under the Guffey Coal Act the Commission. There has been entirely too much; but and were attempting to collect 19% percent a ton tax from for you Democrats, let me ask, Who cleaned it up? That is these little local producers of coal. One man pointed out to the credit of t:Qe President. He cleaned it up to some to me that he had sold but one load of coal in a year to his extent. It was high time that it should have been cleaned. farmer neighbor, yet he was hounded about the coal code It was stinking to high heaven. and the Guffey Coal Act and 19%-percent tax. It was improperly controlled and damaged, but because We were assured by the author of the bill on the floor of it was weighted down by politics, you Democrats cannot the House when it was passed that these little local strictly find fault with what I say, because the President himself intrastate mines would · not come within the law, and in called the Commission, or some mempers of it, down before 2746 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 him and gave them a spanking. Thfs straighteru;!d it out to He knew what the requirements were. He formulated this some extent, although it is not entirely straightened out yet law. It is well formulated. I want to call your attention, He or Congyess. or someone else in authority must stamp out therefore, to the fact that we are not shooting ·into the air, the crooked politics that has throttled the honest and con bUt we are doing what we ought to do for this great industry. scientious efforts of those on the Commission who were We ought t'O remember also that any business 'that is. com honestly attempting to do a good, honest job. pelled to go on producing at less than cost of production hurts · The BituminOUB Coal Commission has gone through one of every other business. We ought to look at the facts about the hardest legal tests ever put up to any department of this the German cartel. The same thing occurred in that coun kind, and why do I say that? I say that the burden it took try· that has occurred later in our cotmtry-that is, that the upon itseJf to revitalize, to- rehabilitate this industry, was a coal industry was destroying itself. It was a competition of new kind of a burden. It had no direct legal precedents by destruction, not of development. The same thing then which it cculd be guided. It had to take it up in new fields ensued in England. The same thing ensued there. England and in new directions. It had to proceed as a pioneer. was compelled also to :follow along the line of the German There were no well-defined signboards by which the Commis cartel. sion could travel. When the Commission in its hurry threw What happened? Was it a success or nOt? It has been and together the first price schedule it was no great wonder that is a success in both countries. If this Commission is per it ran counter to the courts. mitted to do its work as it should, without being hamstrung, Many good lawyers had taken positions for and against it should bring out the same results here in our own country. practically every feature of the act. Many had prophesied I repeat to you that a business of the extent of the soft-coal that it would run into rough going as it proceeded on its way industry in this country, which is compelled or permitted to through the courts. I prophesied the same thing. I say that . go on producing at less than cost, is destroying all other busi not with the spirit of "I told you so," but it did run counter ness as well. We ought to consider the great number of to the courts, and the courts said that the rate SGhedule miners who are interested. They are for this almost to a would not stand. The rate schedule had been established man. They want a fair chance. That is all I ask, and that without full compliance with all those requirements that is all you ask. If when we try it out and flnd out the short must be met before any such schedule can be enforced in law. comings of the law, if there are any, and correct those, and What did the Commission do and what did those in charge then try again as we should do, if it finally fails. I will be the of this program do? They did not cry or threaten about it. :first man to admit its failure. They recognized the power of the courts, and they tried to But unless and until we give it the full measure of our set their house in order. Since then they have done the best support we ought not criticize; we ought not overlook the they could. . It is a gigantic job, a big job. It is a big job fact that there are 36 of the large producers, some of them to pioneer a new field and do something that nobody else in the immediate vicinity of the district represented by the has ever done before. I think it is generally considered that gentleman who introduced this amendment. As pointed out for the last 6 or 8 months this Commission has been as by the· gentleman from Ohio £Mr. JEKKINSJ, because of their siduous. I think it can be said that it has been sincere in ability financially, they will be able to choke to death the Its efforts to make this law effective. smaller ones unless restrained by law. The question is, Are No doubt that they have. been a little slow, because their we going to permit them to do it?- I doubt that this body task is a great one. It is a gigantic task. They want to do will consider any such thing as that. right, and they tell me by the lst of .Tune that they are going We ought to support this Commission. We ought to give it ·to be able to publish a new price schedule. Will it stand every dollar it asks for because we ought not to hamstring ·the test of the courts? I do not know whether it will or not, it after we put it up. It is our Commission. This body but suppose it is stricken down again, if they can by the created it. We ought to be loyal to our own ideals. We ·Simple experiment of trial and error, if they can by honesty ought to be loyal to those men who have committed it to our and sincerity of purpose, provide a legislative plan and pro care. There ought not be a single vote against the continu gram that will rehabilitate one of the greatest industries of ation of this Commission. It ought to be encouraged. It this country, why not have patience with them? The Bureau ought to be helped. It ought to be directed in every way we of the Budget, which is in effect the President's mouthpiece, can to make it a success, because if we make it a success it allowed this Bureau about $700,000 more than is here recom will solve the problems of other businesses as well as the coal mended by the Appropriations Committee. This amendment business. It will help every other business in America. seeks to cut off. another $900,000. If this Commission is en [Applanse.J titled to be continued, it should be provided with a reasonable £Here the gavel fell.] budget so that it can operate reasonably. There is no use to Mr. DOWELL. Mr. Chairman, the Bituminous Coal Act permit our judgments to be warped by our prejudices founded which was passed 2 years ago had for its purpose the stabiliz upon a psychology created by untoward conditions for which ing of the coal industry and the stabilizing of employment in the miners or the industry are not responsible. This is the the coal industry. For reasons which have been many times time to act like statesmen and not as those who have no . stated here the Bituminous Coal Commission for the past understanding. If this task of stabilizing this great but un year has been making a real effort to accomplish this purpose fortunate industry cannot be done~ let it be thus determined throughout the entire country. - As has been made clear to after a fair trial and only after a fair trial I bespeak your you today this is a big Job. The Bituminous Coal Commission intelligent consideration. £Applause.] has devoted as much time and as much energy to carrying The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Ohio out this program as it is possible to do within that time. has expired. Testimony before the committee shows that 80 percent of this Mr. KEJ.I.ER. Mr. Chairman, I cannot forget-and I am work has already been accomplished. It can be completed sure those. who were here at the time have not forgotten-the within a ·Short time if this Commission is permitted to con very able and excellent address delivered before this body by tinue the work it has been doing the past year. I hope every Hon. David J. Lewis on this subject. Mr. Lewis was a man Member of this HoWJe will vote against this amendment, be who grew up in the mines himself and whose forebears were cause if the amendment is adopted the Bituminous Coal Com mfners also. He had gone to Britain and to Germany to mission might just as well quit their work. They cannot study the subject before the consideration of this bill came on complete the work they have set out to accomplish. this floor. We also ought to remember, as I do, the man who The Appropriations Committee has already reduced the really pioneered in this work, the man who gathered together Budget estimate, and in my opinion this should not have been the facts in relation to it and presented it in the form of a done.· Every reduction made in this appropriation will ex bill, the man· who had the very gre.at respect of this body, tend the time of the Commission for completing its work and not only as a man of great ability but as a student who went will delay the coal industry as well as the many thousands of ·to the bottom of things, the man who wrote this b111. That employees of this industry from the benefits of the Bituminous is none other than Fred Vinson. [Applause.J Coal Act. · 1939 CONG-RESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2747 There are today from twelve to thirteen million men and .obstacles, and expenses you complain of are due in a_large measure to the attitude and actions of those members of the coal industry women walking the streets looking for work. As has been who have obstructed procedure and cooperated in the attacks on . stated, the coal industry supplies employment to the greatest the act made by strongly organized industrial consumers ·seeking number of employees of any single industry-in -the. United -to continue the'ir old-time privilege of paying less than production cost for their coal. . States. The testimony before the Appropriations Committee Your letter of February 18 states, "Demoralized prices caused by shows 60 percent of the price of a ton of coal is paid to labor. the provisions of this act are causing losses variously estimated at If the amendment before the House should be adopted, from $7,000,000 to $10,000,000 a month." Inasmuch as the pro which I sincerely hope it will not be, it would do a great in visions of the act have been prevented from becoming operative, the statement that these provisions have caused demoralized prices justice to the many laboring people of the country. seems to me extremely inaccurate and misleading. The industry If the Bituminous Coal Commission can stabilize this · in was in the "red" before the act was passed, and you propose no dustry and if it can stabilize the labor engaged in this remedy_for the deplorable conditions which dominated the industry when there was no Federal regulation. industry, it will furnish employment to six or seven hundred Our own experience shows conclusively that even the brief pe thousand men in the United States. We should vote down riods during which prices have been subject to Federal regulation this amendment and give the Coal Commission the oppor- in recent years . have brought distinct benefits and stabilization. Certainly the experience of the industry has proved that without tunity to complete its work. . Federal regulation, chaos and loss prevail. We intend, therefore, to The stabilization of employment in the coal industry will cooperate fully in restoring stabilization through Federal regulation. ·do away with the haphazard intermittent employment. And Very truly yours, I mean employment for a few days or a few weeks, and then JOSEPHINE ROCHE, being laid off for several weeks or several months. Congress · President and General Manager. should make every effort to bring this about. That letter came from the Rocky Mountain Fuel Co., of Now, I want to go to the question which was asked some Denver, Colo. time ago, and .I want to read some of the testimony. It has I think someone is getting personally ambitious and hopes been stated here that unless some provision is made for the . to use this amendment for such a purpose. I hope that the competitors of coal, nothing can be done by this Commission. · Members will go . along with the committee and allow this That is not the testimony before the committee. On page Commission to function properly. Do not stab the organi 605 of the hearings I read as follows: zation in the back. Lend it a helping hand, and I know that Mr. O'NEAL: My point is this: Can you get the proper control the operators, the laborers, and business will rejoice in the of heat producers unless we take them all instead of one? I mean fact that this organization will stabilize the coal industry. by that, gas, oil, and coal. Do you think this law can be effective · Vote .down this amendment. unless we bring in all the competitors? Mr. TETLow. I think it would be helpful. [Here the gavel fell.l Mr. O'NEAL. You do think it can operate without regulating the The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. other two successfully? . WALTER] is recognized for 2 minutes. Mr. TETLow. Yes. I think it would operate more successfully, Mr. WALTER. Mr. Chairman, the decision of the Su but I think it can operate as it is and bring relief. . preme Court on the 26th of May 1935 in the Schechter case ·Under eXist.ing cor.iditions the Congress or" the United States seems to have been a signal for the beginning of a price should do all in its power to assist in the employment of labor, cutting war that might have known no end. The one in and it is my hope that through the Bituminous Coal Commis dustry that felt this situation most was an industry that for sion the coal industry can be stabilized and these 600,000 or . many years had indeed been very sick. In order to meet the 700,000 employees in the coal industry can be given regular situation we found ourselves in at that time an attempt was employment. · . made to point the way for this particular industry to get on [Here' the gavel fell.l its feet and an effort should be made to solve the many prob- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Michigan LMr. . lems with which it was confronted. Under N. R. A. a great . HooK] is recognized for 3 minutes. step toward the stabilization of this industry had been taken. Mr. HOOK. Mr. Chairman, I think it is rather important Now, step by step, it has been demonstrated that this act here to bring out some of the facts . . I have heard the state ultimately will bring at least a semblance of order into this ment made that the action of this. Commission WS$ going chaotic industry. It seems to me that it would indeed be to increase the price of coal to a great degree. I understand unfair after all of the preliminary work that has been done, that after a very extensive study the average increase will . after all of the steps that have .been taken that should bring · be about 11 cents per ton, arid this 11 cents additional will . about better conditions to hamstring this agency right at go toward the protection of the grades of coal. This Coal . the point when they are able to go ahead and accomplish real Commission has certainly done a very wonderful job . when results . . you stop to think that they have gone into freig~t rates in It seems to me that cutting this amount off the appropria about 150,000 destination points in the United States and tion can mean only one thing; that is, the curtailment of a about 12,000 in Canada. It is the first time it was ever program that the administration of. the agency feels is nee · attempted. It has involved the ascertaining of more than . essary in order to bring about the results that we felt would · 1,000,000 individual rate quotations. be accomplished when the Guffey Coal Act was passed. It Let .me read you a letter of a coal operator in answer to · is indeed a foolish thing at this time to seriously interfere the Committee for the Amendment of the Coal Act in which _with the operation of this Commission after all the prelimi · the writer states: · . nary steps have been taken. ROCKY MOUNTAIN ·FuEL Co., [Here the gavel fell.l Denver, Colo., February 27, 1939. . Mr. JoHN A. ·HoWE, . .The CHAIRMAN.- The gentleman. from Illinois [Mr . . Chairman, Committee for Amendment of the Coal Act, . . · DIRKSEN] is recognized for 5 minutes . . . _ .. Washingtcm, D. c. Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. Chairman, it is probably nothing new . DEAR MR. HowE: Replying to your letters of February 10 and February 18 received,· this company ~does not ca.I'e to be associated . in legislative history that what was designed to be nieat . with your committee. and -is decidedly . opposed to your proposal . turned out to be·poison,.and this appears to be .the case with to amend the National Bituminous Coal Act. · .. _ . . ..respect to the regulation .of the . coal industry. With high We believe that the ac~ sho.ulq be _given a chance to function. hope was one of those who supported the Coal Conservation : Our position in this respect is not based on "fond hope and mfs- · I leading information" as you characterize in your letter the belief Act .of 1935 and the act of 1937. It appeared that some regu of. operators holding similar :views to our own. We have closely . lation was absolutely necessary to bring order out of chaos and continuously followed all legal and administrative efforts and and place the bituminous coal industry on a profitable basis. · developments of recent years seeking to work out an obviously · necessary program of Federal regulation of the coal industry. To Now .it appears that the Bituminous Coal Commission, which · the best of our ab1lity we have cooperated with such efforts. · was designed to nurse the industry back to health, turns out We are fully familiar also with previous attempts to prevent the to be the lord high executioner. This was virtually admitted functioning of the act through attack!? on its constitutionality. : by Chairman Tetlow, of the Coal Commission, in the course . We note wfth .interest that you do not now question the consti tutionality of the act but consider ·it "unworkable, uneconomic, of the hearings when he stated that unless ·competitive fuels and tremendously costly." We are of the opinion tha~ the delays, are regulated there may ultimately be nothing to regulate. 2748 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOVSE MARCH 14 Nor is this the fault of the Bituminous Coal Commission. Mr. SEAVEY. My opinion in that matter is that -the restriction on our control over industrtal rates was made because in the southern It was created by Congres~ to regulate only the coal industry fields they have very low induStrial rates in order to promote the and to establish a structure of minimum prices. It has no use of gas for lndustrtal purposes, and there is just a possibility authority over competitive fuels. The result is that the Coal that these rates being so low would become a. burden upon other users of gas, and the only way I can figure it out is that the Commission finds itself in the position of holding the dog interests in Congress believed that there should be no dampening while competitive fuels cut off the tail a portion at a time. ·e1fect upon the promotion of the use of gas for industrial purposes. Thus the Commission is mandated by law to establish mini The statement speaks for itself, but I am curious to know mum prices in the hope of placing the coal industry on a pay ·"what interests in Congress believed there should be no ing basis only to discover that the market for coal is being dampening effect upon the promotion of the use of natural usurped by electrical energy, oil, and natural gas, none of gaS for industrial purposes." It is another beautiful job of which are subject to rate and price regulation and all of execution on the coal industry, and that industry can only which can play at will in progressively destroying the market labor in the toils of rigid freight rates and minimum prices for coal. Truly it is a grim and ghastly business. A brief and watch its markets disappear under the impact of com- examination will make the picture quite clear. petitive fuel. . . In the field of electrical energy the Bonneville Dam, the ·Nor does the coal industry find much comfort in the State Orand Coulee Dam, the Boulder Canyon Dam, and the Ten Department or in the Committee for Reciprocity Informa nessee Valley Authority will spend nearly a billion dollars of tion. There is pending at this moment a proposed reciprocal public funds for the creation of an electrical giant which will trade agreement with Venezuela under which the present displace millions upon millions of tons of coal. Every one of negligible duty on fuel oil and crude oil may be frozen at its these agencies is so created that it can establish its own rates present level or even lowered. The present duty is one-half without regard to competitive fuels and take away the coal market. Meanwhile coal is to be forced into a strait jacket of cent per gallon, or 21 cents per barrel, as compared with the minimum prices, and in addition thereto, can get its product British duty of $1.26 per barrel. In 1937, 23-,186,916 barrels into these markets only at the price fixed. by the Bituminous of crude oil were imported from Venezuela alone, and total ·imports from all sources were more than 57,000,000 barrels a Coal CommiSsion and at freight rates set by tbe Interstate year. This imported oil displaces millions of tons of coal and Commerce Commission. It is a beautiful job of execution. means a loss of millions in miners' wages and in freight In the petroleum field there is but the mildest pretense of revenues to the railroads. Meanwhile, bituminous coal can regulation. To be sure, there is a feeble kind of regulation ·only wriggle in its strait jacket and watch the progressive of pipe lines in interstate commerce and an even feebler execution take place. regulation by the petroleum conser.vation division in the If the proposed seven regional T. V. A.'s are ever author pending bill, which is designed to effectuate uniform laws ized by Congress, it will mean the creation of other competi among States for the conservation of petroleum resources. tors for coal with full authority to torpedo and destroy the But, aside from that, fuel oil is in position to usurp and make coal industry at will. inroads upon the market once enjoyed· by -the coal industry, It is all so unfair and indefensible to hog-tie the coal in ·and that industry can only grin and bear it as it struggles dustry With freight rates and price restrictions and permit under the restrictions of minimum prices. It is another competitive fuels, subsidized by public funds to roam at will beautiful job of execution. . in search of markets, and at rates which are not subject to In the natural-gas field the condition is even more aggra competitive regulation. - vated and indefensible. In theory the Natural Gas Act of There must be a remedy for all this. There is a remedy. 1938 confers upon the Federal Po.wer Commission the author It is high time to recognize this competition in fuels, not ity to regulate the natural-gas industry in commerce. But only from the standpoint of competition and conservation of what about the joker that slipped into that act, which pro our resources but from the standpoint of equity as well. The vides that the Federal Power Commission shall be without answer seems to lie in the creation of a national fuel and authority to suspend rates, charges, and classifications with power commission, with a board of directors suffi.ciently large respect to natural gas which is used only for industrial pur to give representation to every competitive fuel and to the poses? Under the operations of that act~ natural gas has labor interests involved. Such a commission could well take been offered to a Denver industry for 3% cents per thousand over the complete regulation and direction of all types of cubic feet when the domestic rate is $1.90 per thousand cubic fuel and power ·and place the ·matter on an equitable basis. feet. This means that the domestic rate is 54 times higher · It could and should ta-ke over all Government ventures in the than the rate offered on industrial natural gas. In Illinois · power field, including Bonneville, T. V. A., Orand Coulee, and Missouri 76,000,000,000 cubic feet of. natural gas were · Fort Peck, Boulder Canyon Dam, and any other power devel ·sold in 1937 at an average rate of 18.4 cents per thousand opments by the United States. Into such a commission could cubic feet, whereas in Iowa 26,000,000,000 cubic feet were sold be merged the activities of Rural Electrification Administra at an average rate of 14.4 cents. This odd situation prevails tion, the Federal Power Comrilis8ion, the National Power in spite of the fact that the natural gas used in Iowa must Policy Commission, and the activities in this field of the Na be piped from Texas, while Missouri has at least 140 gas tional Resources Committee. Such a commission could producing wells of its own. All this obtains with a free and absorb the activities of the Petroleum Conservation Division. untrammeled hand, displacing the market for coal, while · It should and could take over the administration of the the coal industry languishes in the toils of rigid freight rates Natural Gas Act of 1938. It could take over the duties of made by one Government agency and in the toils of a mini- the Bituminous Coal Commission. The existing enactments . mum-price structure to be established by another Govern which such a commission would be called upon to administer ment agency. It is a beautiful job of execution. should be amended and improved so that fuels might be In Chicago, under the terms of the so-called forbearance recognized on a competitive basis and each one dealt With · agreement, a contract was made to supply natural gas to an fairly and equitably. As the situation stands today, the coal industry at 7% cents per thousand cubic feet as against a industry is faced vtlth progressive annihilation, and this fact domestic rate of $1.84. If this same ratio applied to coal, it is fully realized by the present Bituminous Coal Commission. would mean that industrial coal would sell for $1.57 per ton, As one step in this direction, I shall introduce a bill this week · whereas the domestic consumer would pay $36.80 per ton. which amends the Nataral Gas Act of 1938 so as to give to Truly, it is an amazing situation. Not even the Acting the coal industry as a matter of right, the opportunity to Chairman of the Federal Power Commission could tell when intervene in all rate hearings before the Federal Power Com questioned by me in the course of the hearings on the inde mission as an interested party in order to protect the inter pendent offices appropriation bill on December 12, 1938, just ests of the industry in the face of growing competition. how that joker crept into the law. On page 174 of the hear [Here the gavel fell.] ings you will find this answer from ,Mr. Seavey in response The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recognizes the gentleman to my question about it: from West Viriinia [Mr. RANDOLPH]. 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2749 Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, the remarks of my col I addressed a further letter to him, dated September ta, league from Pennsylvania [Mr. ALLEN] are not without merit. 1938, which was in answer to his letter of September 3, in The statements of those who favor his amendment and those which I again prodded the Commission, and among other who would defeat it are based largely on logic. I trust no assertions, I stated: partisanship enters into this debate. There is a growing unrest and discouragement among operators The comments just made by the gentieman from Illinois and miners with the seeming lack of progress which is being made in the establishment of minimum prices for the bituminous coal [Mr. Drr.xsEN] were certainly thought provoking when he lndustry. As one of those who spoke and voted for the measure discussed the displacement of coal by competing fuels. We which created the National Bituminous Coal Commission, I have cannot, also, overlook the problem arising by labor-saving felt that the benefits of the legislation should be forthcoming in view of the fact of assessments and taxes which are being collected devices being installed at the mines, thus displacing the work from the industry with no resulting assistance. ers. He spoke of the pending trade agreement with Vene zuela, and the importation of crude petroleum and fuel oil I received a reply from him under date of September 30, to the United States from that country. In that connection 1938, and I quote a part of that communication: I desire, for purposes of the RECORD, to state that on August Although we are cognizant of the appalling conditions existing 15, 1938, I personally appeared before the Committee for . in the various coal-producing areas of the country, we feel it would be utter folly to short-cut legal requirements and establish Reciprocity Information and contended: a schedule. of minimum prices which ultimately could be de· The ¥2 -cent import duty now imposed is certainly not sufficient strayed by interests inimical to this law and to the industry. The to prevent the importation of fuel oil nor to slow down its importa- chaos which would result to the producers and employees 1f such tion in any manner whatsoever. I find that there were in 1937 ap- an event occurred would surely be much worse than that which proximately 23,187,000 barrels of crude on imported into the United now prevans. states from Venezuela. It is my further understanding that almost Mr. Chairman, in 1937 it is said the bituminous coal in- 50 percent of all such crude petroleum and fuel oil imported into this Nation originates from the country of Venezuela. dustry showed a loss of approximately $37,000,000. In 1938 I further pointed out that- the industry is reputed to have sustained a loss of approxi mately $78,000,000. Today an operator in northern West We belleve-I mean those miners and operators, and all those 1n Virginia pays a tax on coal mined of about 12 cents a ton West Virginia who are vitally interested in this subject-that in various forms to Federal and state Governments. Only 6,000,000 tons of bituminous coal, as estimated in heat value, were displaced in 1937 by on imported from venezuela. I call your 1 cent of this tax goes to the Coal Commission and one- attention to what I believe to be a fact, although· we cannot put half cent to the district board. Of course, even these two our finger definitely upon it, that a portion at least of the fuel on payments, plus other taxes, places a heavy burden on the that comes from the Netherland West Indies and other sections actually has its origination in venezuela, and I know that your operators. I sympathize with their plight, and they know honorable body will look into that statement. of my efforts to be helpful, even to the extent of White House I close by saying that I believe that at the present ·time there is conferences, in the hope that the burden might be eased. an unfair competition with the bituminous-coal output of this Without any disparagement on my colleague from Pennsyl- country by the importation of fuel oil largely from the country of Venezuela. I believe also that there is a displacement of bitumi- vania, or those who join with him, I think it would be abso- nous coal by the importation of crude petroleum and fuel on which lutely and obviously wrong at this late date, when the Com is working at the present hour to the detriment of the bituminous- mission is about ready to set prices, thereby. giving this law coal industry, with the resultant bad effect upon the public welfare an opportunity to .succeed, for the Congress of the United of the Nation. I believe that any increase in the importations of crude petroleum and fuel on from Venezuela would simply add States to take any action which would. deny the agency the to that very picture, that very dark picture, which exists today in necessary funds to carry forward the work of the Commis the bituminous-coal industry of the United States, not only ac- sion in establishing minimum prices so benefits may accrue centuating the financial distress of the operator, not only adding to the operators, employment may be increased, and some to the unemployment of the miner, but also addi;ng materially to the relief rolls and thereby bringing about· an added burden to degree of stabilization take place. Federal and to State governments. The bituminous-coal industry Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. Will the gentleman yield? is attempting itself, with the aid of the Government, through an Mr. RANDOLPH. I yield to the gentleman from Penn- agency created by Congress, to work out as far as possible its prob- lems at the present time without the added unfair competitive sylvania. struggle whtch would ensue by the increased imports of crude Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania. Does the gentleman honestly petroleum and fuel on from the country of Venezuela. believe, in his considered opinion, that ·any human commis- I represent a congressional district in west Virginia com- sion can administer 500,000 different individual prices in posed of 15 counties, 9 of which are bituminous-coal-produc- just one area? ing areas. I know of no measure for which· I worked more Mr. RANDOLPH. I say to the gentleman I am ready to diligently at its inception than the legislation that created give this final opportunity to the Commission to put the the Bituminous Coal Commission. I am certain the records prices into effect and see if the law will actually work. of this commission clearly disclose that my correspondence [Applause.] I want no act of mine to be construed as with it, and personal conferences over a long period, indicate hindering the coal industry as it tries to come back iJ;l· the that no Member of this body has been more energetic in ring after being down for the count of nine. It may be attempting to impress the members of the Commission itself that the act will not function. It was written into the law with the dire distress and the chaotic conditions which exist of the lal)d. We are responsible, and we must not stop at this and have existed in the coal industry. point. In this connection may I read portions of the correspond- It is my fervent hope that when prices are· set and the act .ence had during the last 6 months. Under date of August functions that resultant benefits will justify my judgment• . 31, 1938, I addressed the following telegram to Mr. Tetlow, If failure ensues, then I shall unhesitatingly join those per- of the Bituminous Coal Commission: sons who will stop what we are now attempting and follow another course. [Applause.] Am deeply distressed at plight of bituminous coal Industry. M RICH M Ch i be" f p 1 ni Many operators in my district are actually faced with bankruptcy. r. · r. a rman, mg rom ennsy va a, Unemployment among miners is rapidly increasing. can you now where probably our greatest opportunity to give men work wire me approximate date when prices will be set? These people has been in the· bituminous and the anthracite mines of need encouraging information. It may cause them to be able to our state, where a few years ago we employed 800,000 miners hold their properties together until aid comes. and today employ less than 400,000 men in the mines, and Under date· of September 3 I received a letter from Mr. knowing that what is most vital to our American happiness Tetlow, hi which he made the following statement:· and contentment is jobs, I may say that if the $900,000 we The problem is a very complicated one and the Commission is are spending on this Commission would increase the num making certain that every step is in accordance with the provi- ber of jobs for miners or aid or assist the miners in any sions of the Bituminous Coal Act of 1937, and will accord to every- way, I certainly would not want to do anything that would one !he protection whic~ is guaranteed by our Constitution. interfere with the Commission, but I believe the amendment 1 can assure you, however, that prices wlll be established as soon ·offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania bears out the as possible consistent with strict ·legal reqUirements. , fact that it is at least $900,000 just wasted. LXXXIV-174 2750 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE MARCH 14 Let us see the amount of money we have spent on this · tion of one of the counties in my district have been forced Commission. It is .over $8,150,000. We certain.ly should to go on relief. have accomplished something in 3 years with this amount of We in the Twenty-third District look upon the Bituminous money, but when the representatives -of the Commission Coal Commission as an· agency of the Government which i~ before our committee admitted that the Commission did not studying this whole question with a view to eliminating cut and has not been able to accomplish anything for the bene throat competition,· to stabilize the coal industry and put it fit of the bituminous coal indUstry, then I believe it is about back on its feet so jobs may be restored to the unemployed time Congress wakes up. I feel confident we can cut $900,- miners. We believe the Bituminous Coal Commission should 000 from the appropriation for this Commission without be given an opportunity to complete its study. At the con interfering one iota with its operation because the Bitumi clusion of its effort, after a report has been submitted to nous Coal Commission ha.s been made a dumping ground· Congress, then will be the time to decide whether or not the for political job holders. There • are more political job Bituminous Coal Commission shall continue to function; holders in the Bituminous Coal Commission than in any Mr. HAWKS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? other one body in Washington, based on the amount of Mr. · VAN ZANDT. I yield to the gentleman from money expended. This is absolutely so. The Commission Wisconsin. can get rid of these political hangers-on and still continue to Mr. HAWKS. Has not the Congress already enough in do its work. · formation to know that all these Government-subsidized out As was stated by the gentleman from Illinois, it is up fits are ruining the Jndustry? The Commission does not have to you as Members of Congress to try in some manner to to tell us. aid the coal industry, and you are not going to do it when Mr. VANZANDT. That is true. The coal industry is suf you permit this Commission to handle only bituminous coal. fering as a consequence of Government-subsidized competi Let me show you how much oil has been imported in the tion. · Now, however, the Government has an opportunity to last 11 months of 1938, and I quote from page 611 of the aid the coal industry through this study of the Bituminous hearings, this information being given by the Bituminous Coal Commission. Opinion among the miners, producers, and Coal Commission: consumers is divided as to whether the findings of the Com The import statistics for 1938 at present available cover the 11 mission actually will aid the coal industry, but the Com months ending in November. During that period there were im mission certainly should be allowed to complete its efforts in ported under bond for refining and export or for supplies of vessels that direction. a total of 3,135,000 barrels of crude and 16,656,000 barrels of fuel oil. In terms of heating value, this is equivalent to 719,000 and If Congress should lop off $900,000 from the $2,900,000 pro 3,820,000 net tons of coal; respectively. · The extent to which such Vided for the Commission, it would cripple the Commission imports under bond are competitive with coal is not known. and probably nullify the effectiveness of its final efforts. During the same period the dutiable imports not under bond That is false economy, not real economy. amounted to 20,239,000 barrels of crude oil and 6,440,000 barrels of fuel oil. In terms of heating ·value, this 1s equivalent to 4,642,000 · After the Bituminous Coal Commission has made its and 1,477,000 net tons of coal, respectively. It should be noted, report, which is scheduled for June 1, we then can judge llowever, that not all of these imports are directly competitive with the value of this agency. The Commission already has been coal. Imports during 1938 appear to show an increase over 1937 for hampered in its work by a series of Supreme Court decisions the item of crude petroleum under bond and a decrease for other and vie should not place more obstacles in its way. items. Statistics are sl;l.own below. The condition of the coal miners of my district is desperate If you want to help the miners of this country, and I may and if this Commission offers a possibility of helping them, say the larger part of the money spent in the production 6f I believe we should give it every opportunity to do so. I coal goes to the miners, then it seems to me we ought to stand before you today to plead the cause of the miners in protect our shores from importations of oil from foreign my district and to ask for the full appropriation for the countries. We wm create more opportunity .for labor per Coal Commission. A vote against the pending amendment dollar expended in that way than in any other way I know is a vote for something that may help the coal miners. I of by the Commission. say they are entitled to any aid we can give them. Mr. sCHAFER of Wisconsin. Mr. Chairman, will the Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. gentleman ·yield? Mr. NORRELL. Mr. Chairman, I cannot let this oppor Mr. RICH. I yield to the gentleman from Wisconsin. tunity pass by without getting the record straight with reference to my stand upon this amendment. Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. Would it not also help the The Congre~, whether it knew it or not, when it passed miners and help relieve distress in the bituminous-coal in this bill, did follow in the footsteps of every coal-producing dustry if we could get the New Deal out of subsidizing the country on the earth. Practically all coal-producing coun hydroelectric business? tries have had to pass some similar legislation. You did Mr. RICH. I will admit that the increasing rate at which this in trying to solve the problem of the coal industry at we are going into hydroelectric power will put thousands a time when that industry was prostrate. and thousands of men out of jobs; there is no mistake about Now, Mr. Chairman, with these things in mind, may I that. It is a New Deal hobby, and a job-wrecking procedure, say that the Coal Commission has not acted because of the and a Government-in-business New Deal philosophy. fact it has not had an opportunity to act. The decision that ' Mr. SCHAFER of Wisconsin. Is it not unfair to the coal removed the last obstacle placed in its path was rendered miners, who contributed $500,000 through Lewis to the New by the Supreme Court of the United States in January of Deal, to have the New Deal lower the tariff on imported and this year. The last obstacle has been removed and the Com competing oil and also put the Government in the electrical mission is now ready to proceed, and I predict that if you business, thus destroying the coal miners' jobs forever and permit it to proceed, you will find it is going to do the job. ever? Mr. Chairman, it will expire automatically soon enough. Mr. RICH. I believe the gentleman is about right. [Ap I say to you that the people who are opposing this Com plause.] mission are not opposing it because the law is unworkable, [Here the gavel fell.l .they are opposing it because the law is workable, and they Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman, coming as I do from know that now there is no other obstacle that can be put central Pennsylvania, where we have bituminous-coal fields, 1n the path of the Commission. · I would consider myself guilty of neglect if I did not stand Mr. Chairman, I may not have contributed anything to here and convey to my fellow Members the fact that we in the cause, but I say to you that if you are going to adopt central Pennsylvania depend upon bituminous coal for a liv .this amendment, you ought to abolish the Commission. ing. During the past year the coal miners of my district You ought to give it a chance to do something or you simply have felt the effect of Government subsidies and substitutes ought to be statesmen enough to come in here and pass a for coal as fuel. As a result, thopsands of miners are un bill 'abolishing the Commission. employed, to such· an extent that 40 percent ~of the popula- Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? 1939 . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2751 Mr. NORRELL. With the very greatest pleasure, sir. You are now in this position: Either say--and do not say Mr. RICH. Do you know that we have . now over 1,337 it in an appropriation measure, but say it boldly, as we employees in the Bituminous Coal Commission and one of should under the Constitution in a legislative measure-that them is a German who is not naturalized? · We have too we are going to. strike this piece t>f legislation off the statute many employees up there now. books, but do not take the unfair and what seems to me Mr. NORRELL. That question is not germane to the issue. unjust position of cutting appropriations so that you starve [Here the gavel fell.] i the Commission with their work now almost completed. ' Allow them money to proceed. [Applause.] Mr. LEWIS of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I am opposed to this Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? amendment because it Will tie the hands of the National Mr. LEAVY. Yes: I yield to the distinguished gentleman Bituminous Coal Commission and prevent the Commission from Pennsylvania. from accomplishing the purpose for which it was created Mr. SNYDER. Is it not true that for 50 years the cut- that is, the salvation of the coal industry. It is generally ' throat business in the coal industry, bituminous as well as admitted that the :flXing of prices for coal is one of the chief anthracite, almost ruined not on:ly the operators but the means by which it is hoped this salvation will be accom miners as well, and now is the most inopportune time of all plished. Millions have been spent by the Commission in to refuse to give this Commission an opportunity to function. exhaustive investigations in preparation· for a general fixing Mr. LEAVY. I think it would be a calamity to try to starve of cmi.l prices. The Commission will very shortly announce them to death. Whatever the troubles in the great coal in the schedule of prices. If its hands are tied now by this . dustry may be, certainly we would only add to that grief were amendment, not only will the millions that have been hereto we now to vote to deprive this great agency from at least fore appropriated for and s~ilt by tpe Commission be lost, · being permitted to carry through with its gigantic efforts of 2 ··but the chance to relieve the distress o! this great industry, years, since it came into being. It appears that at least 95 to revive it, . and to give steady employment to tl)e tens of percent of the operators and miners have faith that this thousands of coal ininers will be lost. .I ask you to vote : Commission will help ·them. The Supreme Court of the against the amendment. United States -has upheld the work of Congress in enacting Mr. LEAVY. Mr. Chairman, in concluding this argument, this law, and we are just on the threshhold of proving what I may say that I approach this subject absolutely open can be done. My minded and absolutely free from any personal interest. · Even though some Members of the co~l regions have been congressional district and my section of the St~te of Wash severe and unreasonable about hydroelectric power that ington produce not a single pound of coal. We do have . means so much in my region, .I would not stoop to the level hydroelectric e~ergy iri prospect and some in production~ where my judgment rested upon either partisanship or per I am not going to be distracted by getting into a controversy sonality. between coal and hydroelectric energy, but I do think we Mr. RICH. If we had given them $500,000 each year for should look at this impartially and decide it squarely upon the last 3 years, we would have accomplished a great deal the case as it is made here. ',I'he committee gave it the best more for the coal industry than by having spent $9,000,000. consideration it cotild, considering the limited time at our Mr. LEAVY. Oh, last year was the first time we had them disposal, and I am frat;tk. to say to you had the Coal Com before us. We gave them $3,250,000. Now that all of the mission appeared before our committee that had this matter underbrush has been cleared out of the way and procedure up for consideration a week later' or had the decision of made plain to them and the industry with its 15,000 operators the Supreme Court been rendered a week earlier, the full waiting for the green signal, why try to starve them to death? amount of $3,500,000 would have been i.n this bill, because [Applause.] they would have made out a complete justification._ · The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Wash · The facts ·are that the Coal Commission, . whatever its ington has expired. All time has expired. The question is on faults may be-and I grant that · their staff was far from the amendment offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania. perfect-is a new creature. It is not for us here to attempt The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by to. say that the creation of the Coal Commission was wise Mr. ALLEN of Pennsylvania) there were-ayes 80, noes 99. or foolish, the fact remains that this Congress brought it So the amendment was rejected. into being. The coal people apparently wanted it, and soon The Clerk read through · the item for the Bonneville after it came into existence it issued an order fixing coal project. prices in various sections of the United States. This order Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma rose. was taken to the Supreme Court of the United States and the The CHAIRMAN. For what purpose does the gentleman entire work of the Commission was undone on a question of rise? · procedure. Then attempting to proceed in conformity with Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I rise for the the ruling of the Supreme Court, they again have gathered purpose of submitting a unanimous-consent request: That statistics and other material facts, and in so doing sent an the next two items-that is, the Bonneville project and the order to every coal producer in America, 15,000 of them, United States Housing Authority-go over until tomorrow, with instructions to give cost production. The coal pro so that we might proceed tonight with one or two other ducers gave them this information. Then they took into items. consideration the second problem they have, which is the The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Oklahoma in cost in a particular community and the type and charac tend to include the paragraph on the United states Housing ter of coal there produced. This was a colossal undertak Authority? ing. This work has beEm accomplished. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Yes. I suggest, however, Then they started on the third step, and that is where they that it be read. · are now in their activities. This work is that of actually Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr. Chairman, I reserve fixing prices after public hearings; but when they announced the right to object. What is the purpose? How long will we they would hold public hearings in order to conform. with run tonight? adjudicated procedure coal producers, several in number-and Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Not much longer. Just this is the litigation I want to refer to, decided on the 30th until about 5 o'clock. of January of this year-announced they would not permit Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman. I reserve the right to object. the Commission to allow the confidential information they ·u we read these other paragraphs, would it not be possible gave ·them on cost-production to be used in any .public hear to prevent separate consideration for amendment tomorrow ings. These producers brought injunction proceedings, went under the 5-minute rule? I would be willing to let them through every one of the courts, and finally the Supreme go on along and be read, provided we can be protected in Court held, on January 30 of this year, that the injunction that -respect so that the paragraphs may be considered was ill-advised and that the Commission can now .proceed for separately tomoiTOW· under the 5-minute rule. the first time in the matter of fixing prices. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Very well. 2752 CONGRESSION~L . RECORD-. HOUSE MARCH 14 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state . the modified Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, this appro request, as he understands it. The ·gentleman from Okla priation is undoubtedly authorized under title 43, paragraph homa asks unanimous consent that the paragraphs relating 2, which I shall read: to the Bonneville project and the United States Housing Tile Commissioner of the General Land Office shall perform, Authority be passed over at this time, and that the Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior, all executive duties appertaining to the surveying and sale of public lands of read, beginning with the item under "The General Land the United States, or in any wise respecting such public lands, and Office," and that we return to these paragraphs tomorrow also such as relate to private claims of .land and the issuing of for debate under the 5-minute rule. patents for all grants under the authority of the Government- Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. That is correct. And so forth. I submit this provision simply limits the The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? amount that may be used for this purpose. There was no objection. Mr. MOT!'. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? The Clerk read as follows: Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I yield. Binding records: For personal services in the District of Co Mr. MOTT. I call the attention of the gentleman from lumbia, purchase and maintenance of equipment, and all other Oklahoma and also the attention of the gentleman from expenses requisite for and incidental to the establishment, opera Pennsylvania [Mr. DITTER] to the fact that the language con tion, and maintenance of a branch of the Government Printing Office in the Interior Building, to bind, rebind, and repair books tained in this appropriation bill is the same language that of record in the General Land Oftlce, to be expended under the is contained in the Oregon and California land-grant bill of supervision of the Public Printer, $10,000. the Seventy-fifth Congress, and that the appropriation could Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last be written in no other way. word. I do this to inform the Committee of the cast of The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is ready to rule. binding the records for the departments. The enormous cost Mr. DITI'ER. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw the point of of it was brought out before the committee, .and the com order. plaint made by the various departments of the Government The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is withdrawn. when they go to the Printing Office and ask for prices for Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment. rebinding. It seems to me that the Goverpment Printing The Clerk read as follows: Office-and I am a_member of.the Joint Committee on Print Amendment offered by Mr. Rich: On page 17, line 6, strike out ing-should take some recognition of the fact that tJ;le va "$1,000,000" and insert "$500,000." rious departments of the Government complain of. their Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, we are spending a million enormous costs, and I hope the Joint Committee on Printing dollars a year for the surveying of public lands. Heretofore and the Government Printing Office will see wherein they are $500,000 was a great sum for that purpose. Five hundred not in line in price with other printing and binding submitted - thousand dollars today is a great sum for the purpose of by printing plants throughout the country. The enormous surveying public lands. cost has come to be a burden to the departments, so far as If you will look over the records of lands that have been the Printing Office is concerned, and there seems to be some survey.ed, you will find that 2 or 3 .years afterwards the thing rotten in Denmark, and we .ought to try to correct it. markers that have been placed have been changed and the Whose fault is it? It seems to me that an· investigation of lands had to be resurveyed. Now we are going to find our costs should be analyzed by the Joint Committee on Printing selves in the condition, in about 4 or 5 years, after the to see why the departments of the Government so strenuously expenditure of a million dollars a year for surveying public object to high cost of the Government Printing Office. lands, we will have to do the work over again that were The Clerk read as follows: previously surveyed. The markers Will be disturbed and the Surveying public lands: For surveys and resurveys of public lands Will be required by the Department to have additional lands, examination of surveys heretofore made and reported to be defective or fraudulent, inspecting mineral deposits, coal fields, surveys made. A waste of public funds. and timber districts, making fragmentary surveys, and such other I think we are going too fast on this project and we ought surveys or examinations · as may be required for identification of to save $500,000 a year in the surveying of public lands. lands for purposes of evidence in any suit or proceeding in behalf No one will lose and all will profit. of the United States, under the supervision of the Commissioner of the General Land Office and direction of the Secretary of the Mr. FITZPATRICK. Will the gentleman yield? Interior, $1,000,000, including not to exceed $5,000 for the purchase, Mr. RICH. I yield to my colleague from New York. exchange, operation, and maintenance of motor-propelled pas Mr. FITZPATRICK. Is it not a fact that the Land De senger-carrying vehicles: Provided, That not to exceed $5,000 of partment is one department of the Government that turns this appropriation may be expended for salaries of employees of the field surveying service temporartly detailed to the General more money into the United States than they spend? Land Office: Provided further, That not to exceed $10,000 of this Mr. RICH. All I have heard today from that side of the appropriation may be used for the survey, classification, and sale aisle is about money that this department and that depart of the lands and timber of the so-called Oregon & California Ratlroad lands and the Coos Bay Wagon Road lands: Provided ment is returning to the Treasury because of the work they further, That this appropriation may be expended for surveys have been doing. If they have been spending at the rate made under the supervision of the Commissioner of the General of $2,000,000,000 a year faster than they are getting it in, Land Office, but when expended for surveys that would not other Mr. Chairman, I ask you where in the name of common sense wise be chargeable hereto it shall be reimbursed from the applica ble appropriation, fund, or special deposit . . is the money coming from that these men on that side of the aisle have been talking about? Mr. DITTER. Mr. Chairman, I make a point of order Mr. Chairman, tell me where and why we are $20,000,- against the paragraph. 000,000 in the red? Why, it is just the most ridiculous and The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state his point of absurd thing that I could imagine to make such statements. order. All they talk about is receiving money into the Treasury. Mr. DI'ITER. I direct the attention of the Chair to such Show me where it is. I have been looking for it for 6 years part of the paragraph on page 17, beginning in line 11, of New Deal spending-it is not in the Federal Treasury. reading as follows: Mr. FITZPATRICK. In the hearings did not Commis Provided further, That not to exceed $10,000 of this appropria· sioner Johnson so testify, that they turned in so many hun tion may be used for the survey, classification, and sale of the dred thousand dollars to the Treasury of the United States lands and timber of the so-called Oregon & California Railroad from the land office, and the gentleman from Pennsylvania lands and the Coos Bay Wagon Road lands. complimented him on turning in that money. I make the point of order that that is legislation on an Mr. RICH. I could not help compllmenting anybody that appropriation bill, and therefore I make a point of order turns in any money to the Federal Treasury, Mr. Chairman. against the entire paragraph. [Laughter and applause.] But when I look at this sad-look The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Oklahoma ing statement of the Federal Treasury, and I see where they desire to be heard on the point of order? have gone $2,396,000,000 in the red since the first of July, it 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 2753 causes m'e to weep: How those Members on that side can Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I have not that information. get up and say we are getting in money when we have gone I understand, however, it will not take very long. in the red in the last 6 years $20,000,000,000 is beyond me. The SPEAKER. The Chair is advised, for the information_ It is a shame. It is a bad, bad shame that we have to resort of the gentleman from Massachusetts, that it is the so-called to such tactics, as to say we are getting money to balance pocket-veto bill. the Budget when we are wrecking the Treasury. Mr. Chair INTERIOR DEPARTMENT APPROPRIATION BILL, 1940 man, some of these days they will all be sad over there. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani Their children and their children's children wili be sad, and mous consent that all Members who have spoken on the Inte we will be the ones who are ruined, because we were trying rior Department bill may have 5legislative days within which to ruin this Nation. Let us try to economize to the tune of to revise and extend their own remarks. $500,000. [Applause.] The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the Mr. DITI'ER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? gentleman from Oklahoma? Mr. RICH. I yield. There was no objection. Mr. DITI'ER. Does the gentleman feel that the interest of the Interior Department would best be served if the Com ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED mittee do rise at this time? Mr. PARSONS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, re Mr. RICH. I think the best interest of the Interior De ported that that committee had examined and found truly partment, the best interest of the Government, and the best enrolled bills of the House of the following titles, which were interest of everything would be served· if we would go home thereupon signed by the Speaker: at once. [Laughter and applause.] H. R. 2868. An act making appropriations to supply defi [Here the gaver fell.] ciencies in certain appropriations for the fiscal year ending Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, in order that June 30, 1939, to provide supplemental appropriations for the gentleman from Pennsylvania may not have to weep too the fiscal year ending June 30, 1939, and for other purposes; much on our shoulders, and in keeping with the previous and agreement, I now move that the Committee rise. H. R. 3743. An act making appropriations for the Execu The motion was agreed to. tive .Office and sundry independent executive bureaus, boards, Accordingly the Committee rose; and the Speaker having commissions, and offices, for the fiscal year ending June 30, resumed the chair, Mr. BucK, Chairman of the Committee 1940, and for other purposes. of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that The SPEAKER also announced his signature to an en that Committee, having had under consideration the bill rolled bill of the Senate of the following title: H. R. 4852, the Interior Department appropriation bill, 1940, S. 539. An act for the relief of Charles E. Naghel, special had come to no resolution thereon. disbursing agent, Department of the Interior, and Kam meyer & Medack, contractors, from disallowance of charges EXTENSION OF REMARKS for additional work under a construction contract. Mr. BENDER asked _and was given permission to extend his own remarks in the REcoRD. · ADJOURNMENT Mr. SECCOMBE. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent Mr. ~OHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Speaker, I move that to extend my own remarks in the REcORD and to include the House do now adjourn. therein an address by the Honorable Felix Hinkle, of Canton, The motion was agreed to; accordingly
2722 Congressional .Record-House . House Of
