UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

d PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE 93 CONGRESS FIRST SESSION

VOLUME 119~PART 17

JUNE 25, 1973 TO JUNE 29, 1973 (PAGES 21051 TO 22478)

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, WASHINGTON. 1973 22302 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 AMENDMENT OF TITLES 10 AND 37 the Committee on Foreign Relations has silUri would stay in the debt limit bill. OF THE UNITED STATES CODE­ voted to allow the bombing of Cambodia My understanding was that the House CONFERENCE REPORT to continue until August 15. would keep itin the bill. I understand the Mr. HARRY F. BYRD, JR. Mr. Presi­ The death rattle of America is being President threatened to veto it. I under­ dent, I submit a report of the committee heard today in the Capitol of the United stood we were willing to accept that veto. of conference on H.R. 8537, and ask for States. The committee amendment is I understood that we would have a con­ its immediate consideration. coming to the floor of the Senate in a frontation and that we were not going The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. few minutes, and I will gladly yield the to compromise with death. That Is just HELMS). The report will be stated by floor to permit it to be presented. the point. We must confront the Presi­ title. This is another Gulf of Tonkin reso­ dent with the fact that this country has lution. There may be no deception this had enough of killing and suffering. The legislative clerk read as follows: time, but the precipitate action is there. The committee of conference on the dis­ A long time ago, in late 1967, when I agreeing votes of the two Houses on the I thought Congress had spoken clearly wrote about the American crisis in Viet­ amendment of the senate ot the bill (HoR. tlllS session. I thought we said the Presi­ nam, I stated: 8537) to {iIDeud titles 10 and 37, United dent has to make up his mind whether I believe that the people of the world will States Code, to make permanent certain pro­ he wants to stop the bombing or stop this be better served by the virtues of the Ameri­ visions of the Dependents Assistance Act of country. Veto or no veto, congress must can example than by the employment of 1950, as amended, and for other purposes, redress the overwhelming power of the American military power. I believe that we having met, after full and free conference, Executive. cannot violate the pledges for the peaceful have agreed to recommend and do recom­ Now the Congress seems to have capi­ settlement of international disputes con­ mend to their respective Houses this report, tained in the United Nations Charter and signed by all the conferees. tulated. I am sad. The Congress of the then demand that others live according to United States is abandoning its mandate that international "rule by law." The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there as an equal branch of the Government. The gracious bounty of America deserves objection to the consideration of the con­ I hear people talking about the resur­ to be employed In building a better way of ference report? gence of Congress, restoring the balance life for our people at home and for all of There being no objection, the Senate of pOwer, yet I have never seen such the peoples 0'1. the world. We wiU not be able proceeded to consider the report, which capitulation in my life. Elected officials to fulfill the promise of American life whlle reads as follows: America's precious human and material re­ who have had dedicated records of being sources are being wasted in a land war in CONFERENCE REPORT on the side of humanity appear willing Vietnam. Other well-meaning American The committee of conference on the dis­ to surrender their principles with hardly leaders have told us before that winning just agreeing votes of the two Houses on tlle a whimper. this one war will make the world safe for amendment of the Senate to the bill (H.R. The old adage of the Bible is true: The freedom and rtemocracy. We know that war 8537) to amend titles 10 and 37, United sins of the fathers and the mothers will and killing cannot help us to realize our States Code, to make permanent certain pro­ be visited upon the children unto the constructive goals. We must work toward visions of the Dependents AssIstance Act of fourth and fifth generation. these ends slowly and painfully. We know 1950, as amended, and for other purposes, that we will be abie to achieve the lofty having met, after full and free conference, The young people of this country spoke promise of America only in peace. have agreed to recommend and do recom­ out time and time again. Finally their mend to their respective Houses as follows: message got through to the older people, I said: That the House recede from its disagree­ and finally to the Congress. You never can justify immorality, even if ment to the amendment of the Senate and We adopted a resolution the Eagleton it is national or international policy-in the agree to the same with an amendment as amendment. We put it in every bill. We self-Interest or the national interest. follows: On page 6 of the Senate engrossed amend­ said we were going to meet the President I repeated at that time this statement: ment, strike out tities III and IV, and Insert head on. Now the Committee on Foreign In a major foreign polley speech at The in lieu thereof the following: Relations agrees to this tragic delay with American University on June 10, 1963 Presi­ "SEC, 206. ThIs Act shall become effective only two dissents, that of the majority dent Kennedy returned to this theme. "I be­ July 1. 1973." leader' and the Senator from Maine. I lieve that we must reexamine our own at­ And the Senate agree to the same. compliment Senator MANSFIELD and Sen­ titude Itoward world peace]--as individuals and as a nation-for our attitude Is as es­ STUART SY~NGTON, ator MUSKIE for their willingness and sential as theirs...• Every thoughtflJ! citizen HARRY P. BVRD, Jr., dedication to stand for peace. I wish I HAROLD E. HUGHES, who despairs of war and wIshes to bring could say the same about the other mem­ peace, should begin by looking inward-by JOHN TOWER, bers of the Foreign Relations Committee, WILLIAM L. SCOTT, examining his own attitude toward the pos­ Managers on the Part oj the Senate. each of whom I hold in the highest re­ sibilities of peace." SAMUEL S. STRATTON, spect. Nevertheless, I cannot understand When President Kennedy asked us to look F. EDWARD HEBERT, their action. at ourselves, he did not deny the h06tility and BILL NICHOLS, Mr. President, I am unwilling to have the malevolence of the other side. WILLIAM G. BRAY, Congress commit suicide. I know that Mr. President, I am talking about JOHN E. HUNT, everyone in this body is aware of my long morality and credibility. These are SUb­ Managers on the Part oj the House. record against the war. My active oppo­ jects of discussion everywhere today. I Mr. HARRY F. BYRD. JR. Mr. Pres­ sition to the war dates from 1963. I dis­ said at that time, and this is the heart ident, because the laws relating to this agreed with my own President about it. of my speech: expired last night, I ask wlanimous con­ God bless his SOUl, he is no longer with To sum up: even more damaging than the sent that the printing requirement Ull­ us. I have said repeatedly that I would crediblllty gap is what might be calloo del' the rule be waived. not criticize the Nixon administration if America's "morality gap" In Vietnam. A na­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without it brought the war to an end, and it did. tion cannot furnIsh moral leadership while objection, it is so ordered. But the President could have done it performing immoral acts. ThIs is at the Mr. HARRY F. BYRD. JR. Mr. Pres­ much sooner-some 20,000 lives sooner. heart of my objection to what we are doIng ident, I move that the Senate agree to It is not just American lives that are in Vietnam-it is basically immoral. Sup­ involVed; it is all of humanity. Those posed political expediency can never justify the conference report. clear-cut immorality whether in national or The motion was agreed to. bombs are killing people every minute. It is not a matter of dollars and appropria­ international politics. It may appear to suc­ ceed in the short term, but it carries the tions; it is a matter of killing people. It seeds of self-destruction. CONTINUING APPROPRIATIONS, is outright murder. I repeat, it is out­ 1974 right murder. I do not want my finger But it is even more immoral now in The Senate continued with the con­ to pull the trigger on those bombs. I do Cambodia. We bomb in the name of ex­ sideration of the resolution (H.J. Res. not want my children to bear the guilt pediency and that is the only excuse for 636) making continuing appropriations of Vietnam. Other Senators may put the August 15 delay from the Committee for the fiscal year 1974, and for other their fingers on the trigger. I will not. on Foreign Relations today. purposes. Yesterday we stood fast. We agreed Mr. President, the chairman of the Mr. HARTKE. Mr. President, I am that the Cambodian resolution offered Committee on Foreign Relations (Mr. shocked and dismayed by the report that by the distinguished Senator from Mis- FuLBRIGHT) has likewise been a dedicated June 29, 197"3 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 22303 foe of this war. I am waiting to see how has the courage to stand up by its own As a matter of fact, it is a fair assump­ he explains this sudden turn of events commitments or whether this Congress tion that many of the youngsters counted in the Committee on Foreign Relations. is going to be intimidated by political in 1960-then aged 10 to 17, for exam­ I never thought I would be at odds with blackmail. ple-have now married, moved out of him since the Gulf of Tonkin resolution Mr. President, I do not know who is the area of the school they attended, was presented. This is the same precipi­ going home on July 4th for a holiday, and even have children of their own. tous type action as was taken when we but it is a sad state of affairs when the However, under this proviso. if their surrendered complete authority to the Declaration of Independence is going to own children are eligible as disadvan­ President with only vague assurances. be celebrated in a few days and we have taged, they could well not receive title SenatOl: FULBRIGHT said at that time: a declaration of capitulation from Con­ I assistance because that money is go­ The measure of our falling short [of gress-a declaration, which really is a ing to another state based on the 1960 American idealsI is the measure' of the pa­ declaration of war. That is what it count of the parent. ThUS, for example, triot's duty of dissent. The massive nature amounts to. Any Senator who votes if an individual counted as disadvan­ of the SUffering in Vietnam has called forth for the Foreign Relations Committee taged and living in South Carolina in an equally massive outpouring of agony by proposal will be declaring war on Cam­ 1960 had subsequently married, and those who care for America. bodia until August. Make no mistake. moved with his wife and child to New If we are going to bring American, practice up to American ideals. we must speak out. Tllat is what it is. The proposal adopted York, California, Pennsylvania, or any by the Foreign Relations Committee is one of some 25 other States, and his But I would add to Senator FUL­ a declaration of war, and I am willing to child was also eligible to be counted as BRIGHT'S statement that our speaking stay here during all this holiday-I do disadvantaged, under this proviso funds out is not so much an act of dissent as it not need a vacation-while we decide would go to South Carolina where the is an act of affirmation. The truth is that whether we have the courage to stop the parent resided in 1960, rather than to the we are consistently upholding certain bombing and the killing once and for state where the child resided in 1970 commitments and policies. all. I want to stay here until we make and still resides. This is visiting the non­ Mr. President, the issue is not par­ sure the President of the United states sin of the parent upon the child. liamentary procedure, it is not dollars, is the servant of the people, and not the But this hold-harmless provision, de­ it is not getting along with the Presi­ new dictator of imperial America. signed to protect school budgets from dent. The issue is simply death, death in TO GIVE AND TO TAKE AWAY drastic reductions, will not even do every aspect-death with the cold hand that. Let us take, for example. a school of America pulling the trigger on inno­ Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, I speak with particular reference to the third district in one of the States where local cent people. educational agency boundaries and COtul­ There is no question that others are proviso in section 10l(a) (4) of the con­ tinuing resolution now before us, House ty boundaries are coterminus. Should guilty, but we should not measure our­ such a district suffer a 50-percent loss of selves by the guilt of others. That is like Joint Resolution 636. This proviso stip­ ulates that no State will receive less un­ eligible students due to the change from saying that you should murder someone 1960 to 1970 census-the type of loss re­ because someone else has murdered. der title I-A of the Elementary and Sec­ ondary Education Act than it received ferred to in the House report--then, That is no excuse, especially for a coun­ despite the hold-harmless provision try like America. I thought we had put during fiscal year 1972. A total appropria­ tion of some $1.5 billion is involved. The which refers only to States, that local that attitude aside. school district would lose title I funds With respect to those who really feel reason for this provision, which also appears in the Labor-HEW fiscal year and the other school districts throughout this country may now be sinking to its the State would gain title I funds. This, death, those who feel that we may have 1974 appropriation bill, H.R. 8877, which passed the House on June 26, is to fore­ according to the Office of Education, ap­ reached our peak and are on our way plies in States advantaged by the hold­ down, if we approve of the action taken stall a diminution in title I funds re­ ceived by a State because of use of the harmless provision as well as in States today in the Committee on Foreign Rela­ disadvantaged by it. It also applies in tions and if the Cambodian bombing is 1970 census in counting eligible students states where local school districts are continued for another 45 days; if that instead of the 1960 census. The au­ not coterminus with county lines, except authority is continued. then the Water­ thorizing legislation, the Elementary and inasmuch as computations would be af­ gate hearings and all the other hearings Secondary Education Act, requires use fected by population changes in other might as well be dismissed because there of the latest census figures. parts of the county. Consequently, the is not enough credibility left in this body This proviso was proposed to prevent, hold-harmless provision, which applies to really support any continued con­ as the House report on H.R. 8877 states. only to States and not to local educa­ fidence by the American people. "a drastic redistribution and possible tional ugencies-that is, local school It took a long time for the American reductions of as much as 50 percent in boards-cannot avoid a heavy local people to accept the fact that they had some State allotments." At this late date bUdget impact. been mislead about the war. Basically in the appropriation process, when school Now, as to individual States. Some the American people believe in peace. budgets are already in place for the new States, as the 1970 census reveals, have Basically the American people believe in school year which begins in September, proportionately more eligible disadvan­ life. They do not want to put their I do not believe anyone here would want taged children than they had in 1960: stamp of approval on war and death. It seriously to dislocate local budgetary some States have less. The States with is our responsibility in the Senate to processes. But while this provision does more eligible children, logically require--­ end the bombing. The Constitution is not do that, it does an injustice to the and are entitled under the Elementary very clear. It says that only Congress concept of concentration of funds on the and Secondary Education Act-more can declare war. In the past we in Con­ disadvantaged which has been a part funds to educate them; the States with gress said that the war was underway­ of the enactment of ESEA since 1965. less require less funds. Because of this that we could not stop it once it was And, given the nature of the "grand­ hold-harmless provision in the Labor­ ullderway. We have been too quick with father" concept, it threatens to change HEW appropriation bill passed by the excuses, mostly excusing our own con­ the direction of ESEA, for grandfather­ House. 28 States will have to give away sciences when we did not reassert the ing breeds more grandfathering, as all of allocated moneys to bring 22 States up to right to have control over whether or us here know. their fiscal year 1972 level. But for the not America should be engaged in mili­ This past year, distribution of funds hold-harmless provision in H.R. 8877, my tarY action. through the States to the local schools own state of New York WOUld, in fiscal The time for excuses has long since has been on the basis of the 1960 census. year 1974. receives $54.680,111 more in passed. We have determined in this Thus, schools are receiving funds based fiscal year 1974-thus, the disadvantaged body and in the other body that the on a count of children almost all of children of New York State would lose Eagleton amendment should be law. We whom are no longer attending public more than $54 million in title I funds to have made it very clear to the President school, for if a child were 5 years of age which the law otherwise entitles them. that we want the bombing stopped. The in 1960 he would be 18 today in 1973 Other States also would lose-for ex­ identical resolution and amendment was and probably be out of school-as a mat­ ample, Indiana, $3,866,327; Maine, S1.­ passed by both bodies. Now, we must ter of fact, title I, ESEA, provides only 068,315; Michigan, $12,678,798; New question whether or not this Congress for the counting of children aged 5 to 17. Hampshire, $503,115; Rhode Island. $1,- 22304 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE June 29, 1973 210,361; Utah, $1,001,394; and Washing­ receive additional title I funds reflecting This, it seems to me is a most reason­ ton, $3,631,496. to some degree that increase. This could able approach. It is fair. The provision Do I here argue against inclusion of be done by a phasing mechanism of 80 for hold harmless contained in the ap­ the hold-harmless provision in the fiscal percent hold harmless, for example. propriation bill is neither reasonable nor year 1974 Labor-HEW Appropriation bill It is my intention to seek just such a fair. and in the continuing resolution now change in the fiscal year 1974 Labor­ Mr. President, I ask unanimous con­ before us? No, I do not. I am sympathetic HEW appropriation bill, a measure which sent that there be included at this point to the situation faced by some states provides $1.81 billion for title I, ESEA, in my remarks a chart utilizing data pro­ confronted with a drastic reduction in and to which the figures to which I have vided by the U.S. Office of Education title I funds because of population alluded apply. I do not believe it appro­ indicating how the States are alIected changes revealed by the 1970 census. priate to seek to amend the bill now be­ by the hold-harmless provision in the They require some cushion. What I argue fore us, as the continuing resolution fiscal year 1974 Labor-HEW appropria­ here is that some modification must be holds title I-A funding at a level of some tions bill approved by the House and made in the hold-hannless provision so $1.5 billion, the fiscal year 1973 level, now pending before the Senate Commit­ that States are cushioned against precip­ and, hopefully, the continuing resolution tee on Appropriations. itous reddctions in title I funds but will be applicable for only a brief interim There being no objection, the tabula­ also, so that states with increased num­ before enactment of the fiscal year 1974 tion was ordered to be printed in the bers of disadvantaged children might Labor-HEW appropriation bill. RECORD, as follows:

Percent Percent 01 of formula formula Fiscal year Fiscal year aUot- Fisc3~ year Fiscal year allot- 1974 ESEA r, 1974 ESEA I. ment 1974 ESEA I, 1974 ESEA l, ment pa,1 A part A with part A parI A With estimated estimated Iiscal estimated estimated liscal allotment, allotments loss or gain tear allotmenl. allotmenls Loss or gain with without under hold 972 with wilhoul under bold I~~ Stale 1972 tloor 1972 tloor harmless tleor State 1972 floor 1972 1I00r harmless Ooor

Alabama ______Nebraska______$42,202,982 $22,685,091 +19,517,901 186.04 Nevada ___ . ______$8,461,135 $7,789,028 ~72.107 108.63 Alaska ______• _. _____ ~, 108,676 4,745,528 -636,852 86.58 1,666,084 1,950,597 -284,513 85.41 Arizona ___ ~ ______.______-1,523,832 88.32 New Ham psliire ______11,523,805 13,047,637 New Jersey ______2,801.095 3,304,210 -503,115 84.77 Arkansas______26,470,169 13,383,963 +13,086,200 197.78 60,773,155 73, 044, 917 -12,271,162 83.20 California ______New Mexico ______• __ 151,796,951 183,335,748 -31,536,791 88.80 New York. ______11,203,896 10,614,276 +589,620 105.56 Colorado ______• 14,061,868 16,598,162 +2,536,294 84.72 255,282,719 309, 962, 830 -54,680,111 112.36 ConnecticuL______. ____ 17,099,!i99 20,457,938 -3,358,339 83.58 North Carolina ______61,621,074 35,255,652 +2ti, 365, 422 174.78 Delaware ______-562,760 86.64 Nerth Dakota ______3,649,464 4,212,224 Ohio ______. ______5,447,877 4,140,123 +1,307,754 131.59 Florida ______39,837,839 40,721,904 -884,065 97.83 51,107,359 61,063,079 -9,955,120 83.70 Georgia __ • ______Oklahoma _. ______. ______42,188,006 32,050,692 + 10.137.314 139.63 Oregon ______20,300,817 17, OlD, 041 +3,290,776 119.35 Hawaii. ____ . ______. ___ ._ ._.._..• 4,636,313 5,594, ,05 -958,392 82. 87 12,858,310 15,009,650 -2,151,340 85.67 Idaho. ______. ______- ___ 3,977,755 4,307,637 -329,882 92.34 Pennsylvania. ______• ______74,563,599 88,482,429 -13, 918, 830 84.27 lIIinois______82,549,907 100,027.048 -17,477,141 82.53 Rhode Island. ____ . ______6,041,948 7,252,309 -1,210,361 83. 31 Indiana ______-______20,487,387 24,353,714 -3,866,327 84.12 South Carolina ______37,107,533 18,991, 562 +18,115,971 195.39 lowa_. ______. ______----- 16,645,654 12,594,561 +4,051,093 132.17 South Dakota. ______. __ 6,870,494 4,632,141 +2,236,353 148. 32 Kansas______------Tennessee.______. __ . ______12,478,897 11,930,161 +548.736 104.60 Texas______38,712,613 20,021,999 + 18,690,611 193.3'1 Kentucky. ___ •______------38,302,224 23,014,304 +15,287,920 166.43 Utah ______, ______• ______93,439,492 81,923,055 +11,516,437 114,0; Louisian3______•___ ----.- ----_. 37,989,922 31,943,897 +6,046,025 118.93 5,302,785 6,304,179 -1,001,374 84.1L Maine ______------VermonL______• ______••______6,549.274 7,617,589 -1,068,315 85.98 Virginia ______3,014,806 3,268,002 -253,196 92.2. Maryland______•____ • 24,621,223 29,564,565 -4,943,342 83.28 37,084,416 29,347,081 +7,737,335 126.36 33, 505,700 40,254,091 -6.7411,391 83.24 Washington ______. ____ 19,676,262 23,307,758 -3,631,496 84.42 Massachusetts______------West Virginia ______Michigan _____ . __ ... __ ------65,576,522 78,255,320 -12,678, 798 83.80 Wisconsin ______21,681,593 12,118,337 +9,563,256 178. 92 MiMescta __ • ______------23,183,881 22,160,878 +1,023,003 104.66 Wyoming ______19,931,228 23.752,279 -3,821,051 83.91 Mississippi ,.______------44,154,990 22,829,237 +21,325,753 193.41 1,821,060 1,891,064 -7,004 101. 59 MissourL_. ______------28,547.584 24,025,663 +4,521,921 118.82 District 01 Columbia ______13,478,984 16, 197, 598 -2, 718,614 83.22 Montana ______------. 4,379,638 4,425, 127 -45,489 98.97

The PRESIDING OFFICER. What is Public Welfare may be authorized to file ""December 1, 1974" and insert "Au­ the will of the Senate? reports on Friday, July 6, between the gust 1, 1973..... Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. President, I suggest hours of 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD. Mr. President, the absence of a quorum. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without I have been asked by the distinguished The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. objection, it is so ordered. Senator from Alabama (Mr. SPARKMAN) DOMENICI). The clerk will call the roll. Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD. Mr. President, to move that the amendment of the The second assistant legislative clerk I suggest the absence of a quorum. House be agreed to. I have cleared this proceeded to call the roll. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk also with the Senator from Texas (Mr. Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD, Mr. President, will call the roll. TOWER). I ask unanimous consent that the order The second assistant legislative clerk Mr. TOWER. Mr. President, I have no for the quorum call be rescinded. proceeded to call the Toll. objection. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD. Mr. President, The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ques­ objection, it is so ordered. I ask unanimous consent that the order tion is on agreeing to the motion of the for the quorum call be rescinded. Senator from West Virginia. The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. The motion was agreed to. AUTHORIZATION FOR COMMITTEES HELMS). Without objection, it is so TO FILE REPORTS UNTIL MID­ ordered. NIGHT QUORUM CALL Mr. ROBERTC. BYRD. Mr. President, Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that all com­ EXTENSION OF LAWS RELATING I suggest the absence of a quorum. TO PAYMENT OF INTEREST mittees may be authorized to file reports The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk until midnight tonight. Mr, ROBERT C, BYRD. Mr. President, proceeded to call the roll. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without I ask the Chair to lay before the Senate The second assistant legislative clerk objection, it is so ordered. a message from the House of Representa­ will call the role. tives on Senate Joint Resolution 128. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. AUTHORIZATION FOR COMMITTEES ask unanimous consent that the order HELMS) laid before the senate the for the quorum call be rescinded. ON COMMERCE AND LABOR AND amendment of the House of Representa­ PUBLIC WELFARE TO FILE RE­ tives to the joint resolution (S.J. Res. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without PORTS ON FRIDAY, JULY 6, 1973 128) to provide for an extension of cer­ objection, it is so ordered. tain laws relating to the payment of in­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD. Mr. President, send to the desk an amendment. I ask unanimous consent that the Com­ terest on time and savings deposits, mittees on Commerce and Labor and which was in lines 5 and 6, strike out The PRESIDING OFFICER, The Sen- June 29, 1973 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 22305 ate will please be in order so the Senator of bombing in Cambodia it was recog­ that great care would be taken to avoid can be heard. nized that an effort to insist upon an im­ damage to civilian persons and prope:'ty. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President. I of­ mediate cessation of hostilities in the That point was raised by several Mem­ fer an amendment and ask for its im­ face of strong objection from the Presi­ bers. We have received that assurance mediate consideration. dent might precipiate a serious confron­ from the White House. I have revealed to The PRESIDING OFFICER. The tation between the two branches of Gov­ the committee the persons with whom I rmendment will be stated. ernment which would result in severe have discussed it. The amendment was read as follows: hardships for many. The committee felt I think we all approach this with a On page 10, strIke Sec. 109 and Insert in that it had a solemn responsibility to do feeling of immense relief, a relief so great lieu thereof the following: all within its po\yer to avoid such a con­ as not to be quantified even in ordinary "SEC. 109. NotwIthstanding any other pro­ frontation, provided a compromise could language. The distinguished chairman vision of law, on or after August 15, 1973, no be found which would reaffirm the funds herein, heretofore or hereafter appro­ knows I have already made statements priated may be obligated or expended to proper constitutional role of the Con­ regarding my view that we ought to find finance the Involvement of UnIted States gress with regard to the warmaking a way to end the bombing in Cambodia military forces In hostillties In or over or power and which would specify a date not later than tomorrow night, mid­ from off the shores of North Vietnam, South certain for a total end to the involvement night. I have had this personal agony VIetnam, Laos, or Cambodia." of the United States in the war in Indo­ that we have all shared in the Senate. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I china. It is my view that we have arrived at hope we may have order. It was clearly understood by all those a solution which ought to be gladly ac­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ supporting the amendment that its effect eepted by the Congress and by the Exec­ ate will be in order, please. would be to preclude after August 15 utive because I think it is in the interest Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, this any resumption of hostilities by U.S. of the Nation, although I know there are is a very important statement dealing forces without the express approval of those in the Executive who feel that the with a subject which this body has been both Houses of Congress. negotiation stance has been hampered­ concerl1ed with for more than 10 years The committee offers this amendment and I suppose it has. And there are th03e now. I hope I may have the attention assuming that the interval between now who feel-and I can understand their of the Senate. and August 15 will' not be the occasion feeling-that this continues the right, at Mr. President, the Committee on For­ for an escalation of U.S. bombing in least, to continue the bombing until Au­ eign Relations has today agreed, by a Cambodia or for its resumption any­ gust 15. vote of 15 to 2, to a committee amend­ where else in Indochina unless provoked. However, had the constitutional crisis ment to be offered to the pending con­ As expressed by one member of the com­ evolved and the vetoes continued, con­ tinuing resolution. This amendment mittee's view on this matter is·that "un­ sequences would have flowed far beyond would prohibit the continuation of hosti­ der this authority all efforts should be the contention here. Moreover, had the lities by U.S. forces anywhere in Indo­ made consistent with the limited mili­ executive prevailed over that period of china-and I emphasize anywhere in tary objectives involved, to minimize time, because of the understandable de­ Indochina-after August 15, 1973. damage to civilian life and property." sire of Congress that the other functions The amendment, which will be o1Iered The committee's expectation in this of government continue, the right of the as a substitute to sections 108 and 109 matter has been communicated to the Executive to continue the bombing indef­ of the continuing resolution reads as White House and assurances have been initely would have been made possible. follows: received in return that these guidelines at least, through laek of effective aetiQli NotwIthstanding any other provIsion of are acceptable. In reaching agreement by the Congress. law, on or after August 15, 1973, no funds upon the terms of this amendment, both hereIn heretofore, or hereafter approprIated the executive branch and the commit­ Therefore, for those who would be may be obllgated or expended to finance the tee receded in part from positions which tempted to say-and I can understand involvement of UnIted states milltary forces had been strongly held over a number of it--that this does continue the right to in hostllitles in or over or from off the years. More important than any of these do things which are distasteful to them shores of North Viet.nam, South VIetnam, in the extreme until the 15th of August. Laos, or CambodIa. concessions, however, is the fact that the war will end, that a proper consistitu­ they should be reminded that the right The present amendment is, in essence, tional balance will have been restored, would have continued for a much longer the result of an accommodation of the and that a new era of national unity and time had the Executive prevailed. views of the committee and the White positive accomplishment will now be So I think we made a good decision House following a meeting this morning. possible. whep we cousider that there were many The committee is gratified that this com­ Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. Mr. Pres­ points of view. Some of the points of promise was promptly agreed upon and ident, will the distinguished Senator view the chairman read were not agree­ as a result, it now appears that the yield? ments that, under other circumstances. executive andlegislative branches will, at Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield to the dis­ I would have been a party to. I think ail last, act in a coordinate manner to bring tinguished minority leader. of us together have really wrought as to a close this tragic episode in our Na­ well as we could considel'ing the com­ tion's history. Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. Mr. Pres­ plexity of the problems and the necessity ident, the distinguished chairman of the for the finding of an immediate solu­ The committee's decision to submit committee has correctly stated the agree­ this amendment to the Senate for its tion. if we possibly could, and I congratu­ ment in committee, of course. His state­ late the chairman. consideration followed extensive discus­ ment reflects the views of a majOlity of sion in the course of which a number of the committee, and in many respects re­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President. I understandings were reached with re­ congratulate the distinguished minority flects the views of nearly everyone on the rais~ gard to the interpretation. Among these committee. There are some statements leader for his words. I should like to were the following: made, of course. where there have been one Question. I do not recognize the con­ The acceptance of an August 15 cut­ disagreements within the committee but stitutional right or po\ver of the Execu­ off date should in no way be intepreted I agree with what the distingUi~hed tive to continue bombing. Many of us do as recognition by the committee of the not believe he has a constitutional right chairman has said, and it is essential that to do this in Cambodia. But that does not President's authority to engage U.S. some concessions be made on the part of forces in hostilities until that date. The answer the question. What we are seek­ the executive and on the part of the leg­ ing is a practical end to the war in Viet­ view of most members of the committee islative branch; and we have met sin­ nam. has been and continues to be that the cerely in an effort to achieve an end to President does not have such authority I appreciate very much what the Sen­ the hostilities in Indochina. ator from Pennsylvania said. All of us in the absence of specific congressional I have undertaken, as the distinguished approval. can express l'eservations. I would much chairman has noted, to secure assurances prefer, as others do, that the bombing While a majority of the committee that there would be no escalation in the stop now. I wish it had been stopped 5 strongly preferred an immediate cutoff bombing during this intervening period, :rears ago. But we were involved in it. 22306 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE June 29, '1973 Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, will the McGovern-Hatfield amendment, whIch opening statement he .. said that .one of Senator yield? touched this off, and which is behind it­ the things the committee was concerned Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield to the dls­ we will nevertheless consider this as the about is the hardship this would cause tingiushed Senator from New York, who successful culmination of the long strug­ to certain Americans if this continuing has contributed a great deal to the gle in which we have all engaged and resolution were vetoed. While that may reaching of this agreement. to which we have given so much. be a secondary factor, is not the chair­ Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, I do not Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. Mr. Pres­ man's real purpose in offering this sub­ think any of us approach this settlement ident, because my name was mentioned stitute amendment today that he believes with anything but heavy hearts. by both Senators, may I be recognized it was the best and the surest way to Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, may briefly? bring an end of American military opcr.­ we have order? The noise it too great. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I tions throughout Indochina? The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. promised to yield to several other Sen­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. I say to the Sen­ HUCHES). The Chair will withhold any ators. ator that was my best judgment and that further debate until there is order. Sen­ Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I have of the committee. It actually achieves ators who wish to conduct discussions been seeking recognition, and I would like what the Senator from South Dakota should go to the cloakroom. to be recognized. together with the Senator from Oregon The Senator from New York may pro­ SEVERAL SENATORS. Regular order. tried to do with the McGovern-Hatfield ceed. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I resolution offered some time ago. This is Mr. JAVITS. I do not think that any yield to the Senator from Pennsylvania. the current version of that effort. With of us approach this agreement with any­ The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. all the options and alternatives we had thing but heavy hearts. The agreement HUGHES). Regular order had been called and in view of the assurances we received was not reached lightly. But we felt, ill for. The Senator can only yield :01' a from the White House through the Sen­ the Committee on Foreign Relations, question. ator from Pennsylvania, this seems to me that whatever good could come from this Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I to be the most effective thing we could opportunity would be good for the yield for a question. do. country. Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. Mr. Pres­ Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. President, in The Senator from Pennsylvania (Mr. ident, the question I have in mind, if I other words, it is a tactical effort to get SCOTT) spoke of his personal agony. I may phrase it correctly, is that the Sen­ the best possible veto-prOOf solution. feel it very keenly. Every single lYe in ator from Arkansas recognizes, I am Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator is cor­ Cambodia is as precious to me as one in sure, that I have done my level best to rect. It brings about the end sooner than the U.S.A. That is as it should be. If I represent the views of the White House any alternative we could think of. We felt that one single life could be saved by as presented to me, and as I have evolved have already seen what happened to the extending the original Church-Case them as a lawyer with 50 years standing earlier effort, which involved only the amendment, I would stand fast. But I as to the meaning of words, I am sure the bombing of Cambodia. feel that lives will be spent far beyond Senator would also agree that I do not Mr. McGOVERN. Other Senators are the date we have fixed if that is our posi­ undertake to say that I know what the of the view that the best approach to tion. In addition, we will engender a future will hold. I do say that the law, the problem is an immediate cutoff, even domestic unconstitutional confrontation. if it is enacted in these words, seems to though it would hurt some deeply. Even the present atmosphere which we me to accomplish the purpose which he Is there anything in the substitute have in our country would only be made and the Senator from New York have proposal the Senator now proposes, if it worse than it is today. expressed; namely, to bring au end to carries, that would prevent any Senator But I desire to ask the chairman with the war. And the Senator will agree that from offering an amendment immedi­ respect to the legislative purpose with is a good question. ately, on the next bill, to cut off all funds, which we approved this amendment. Is Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator is cor­ and to offer it on every bill that comes it our understanding that we have asked rect, and that is my understanding. The up, to bring about an immediate cutting the executive to support us in the action proposition was whether we were going off of funds. Could we not use both ap­ which we now recommend for August 15, to continue to bomb Cambodia. As much proaches? Is it not possible for the Sen­ 1973, with no ifs, ands, or buts, or any­ as we deplore the bombing there, when ate this afternoon to adopt the August thing else, and that that will mark the it was offered to stop it all completely 15 terminal date for all military opera­ end, after so many years, of any kind of and no legal possibility of resumption tions, and on the very next bill on which military action in, over, or off the shores without further action by the Congress, it is appropriate to offer language calling of Indochina, and that no action of this this appealed to me as an all-encompass­ for the immediate termination of mili­ kind will come thereafter except if Con­ ing end to the war. tary operations in Indochina? gress so orders? Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. Aside Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator is quite Mr. FULBRIGHT. That is my under­ from my personal views, I acted as a con­ right. We tested that approach and the standing. It is not only my understand­ duit from the White House, reporting to House failed to override the veto. ing, but I have been informed by the the Senate what I was told. Mr. McGOVERN. This does not pre­ Senator from Pennsylvania (Mr. SCOTT) Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator is cor­ clude that approach. that it is also the Executive's under­ rect. And the statement, as it would re­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. It does not preclude standing. fer to the assurances, without it being that approach, but one has to look at the Mr. Jf,VITS. I have another question. cleared by the Senator from Pennsyl­ change in the House. Perhaps the Senator from Pennsylania vania with the White House, does not Mr. McGOVERN. I just want the Sen­ can be more helpul in this. If the mean that these guidelines are accept­ ate to know that this is the approach amendment is agreed to and the Presi­ able to the White House, I do not I am going to take. I am going to support dent signs the bill, that is law. It is not know how much further one can go to this compromise approach as being only an agreement which we have agreed to get word from the executive branch. one way. quietly with the President. It is not a Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, will The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ private understanding or simply some­ the Senator yield? ator can only yield for a question. The thing that the White House has com­ Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, Senator has made his point. municated to us. Is it not our construc­ would the Senator yield? Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, will tion of the law as it is on the books of The PRESIDING OFFICER. Regular the Senator yield for a question? the United states? order has been called for. The Senator Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield. Mr. FULBRIGHT. It is; and there is can only ask a question. Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, the no money available to take any of the Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. President, will word "preclude" has been used by three actions the Senator has so well described. the Senator yield? Senators So far. I want to inquire as to Mr. JAVITS. I thank the Senator. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I what this resolution includes. What does I should like to say, before I take my yield to the Senator from South Dakota. it prevent within the next 45 days? Does seat, that in the long fight that Senator Mi'. McGOVERN. Mr. President, I it permit continued bombing between FULBRIGHT and Senator CASE have want to ask the chairman to make very now and August 15? made-and I knowwe will not forg'et the clear one point. In the closing of his Mr. FULBRIGHT. As I have said, I do June 29, 1973 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 22307 not regard him as having the Tight to do been reported to us by the Senator from The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ this. He has the power to do it. And un­ Pennsylvania-he would have the power ate will be in order. less we have something like this, the only for 45 days to bomb in Indochina. Mr. CASE. Is that not correct? sanction we have here is to impeach him. Mr. FULBRIGHT. He already has that Mr. FULBRIGHT. That is my under­ And I do not think that is practical. I do power. Let me emphasize what I have standing. not recommend it. I know of no other said. Mr. CASE. And is this not the best 8.lternative. Mr. EAGLETON. Did the Senator say way, in the judgment of the chairman, Mr. EAGLETON. In the light of the that he has that power? to get the quickest ending we possibly legislative history, meaning the state­ Mr. CHURCH. Not as to the ground can get through any action we can take ment of former Secretary of Defense forces. on hostilities in South Vietnam? Richardson that we will continue the Mr. FULBRIGHT. Well, he has the Mr. FULBRIGHT. In the absence of bombing unless the funds are cut off, will power. As long as the military forces will the capacity to override the veto, it is we with the adoption of this resolution follow his orders, he can do these thhlgS. my opinion it is the quickest way. permit the bombing of Cambodia for the That does not mean he has this author­ Several Senators addressed the Chair. next 45 days? That is the question I pose ity under the constitution and laws. But Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield to the dis­ to the Senator from Arkansas. this is what I emphasize: The acceptance tingUished Senator from Vermont. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Until August 15. of an August 15 cutoff date should in no Mr. AIKEN. Mr. President. the Sen­ Mr. EAGLETON. Would it permit the way be interpreted as recognition by the ator from New Jersey has almost asked bombing of Laos? committee of the President's authority to my question. which was this: If this Mr. FULBRIGHT. It would not prevent engage United States forces in hostilities amendment is not approved, under the it. until that date. authority which the President claims he Mr. EAGLETON. Would it permit the After I prepared this statement the has, can he not continue the bombing bombing of North and South Vietnam distinguished Senator from Pennsyl­ not only until August 15, but to Septem­ until August 15? vania went to a great deal of trouble to ber 1, October I, December I, even into Mr. FULBRIGHT. I do not think it is clear it in detail with the White House. next year? But under the agreement. legal or constitutional. But whether it is I have received his assurance that this is under the understanding which the mem­ right to do it or not, he has done it. He a firm understanding with the President. bers of the Committee on Foreign Rela­ has the power to do it because under our I was speaking, I thought, for the com­ tions and others have had with the ad­ system there is not any easy way to stop mittee, in saying that we do not recognize ministration, there is virtual agreement him. the President's authority to continue the to completely stop all military hostilities I do not wantmy statement to be taken bombing. But that is different from the in Indochina not later than the 15th of to mean that I approve of it or think that power to do it. August. or hopefully much earlier? it is constitutional or legal for him to do This has always been the trouble we Mr. FULBRIGHT. I would hope very it. He can do it. He has done it. Do I have had in putting sanctions on the much it would be much earlier, that is make myself clear? President. This has always been the correct. Mr. EAGLETON. In a way yes, and in a trouble, and will continue to be, unless The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ way no. If we adopt this resolution, the Presidents have respect for the views of ate will be in order. If Senators wish to President will continue to bomb Cam­ Congress. conduct conversations, they should carry bodia.. That means quite simplY that we I believe we have assurance that this them on in the cloakroom. will sanction it, does it not? will not be vetoed, and it will be the law The Senator from Montana is recog­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. We do not sanction as a cutoff date. nized. it. It does not mean that we approve of Mr. EAGLETON. Recognizing the Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, it the bombing. This is the best way to stop power as the President has used it, and as grieves me very much to differ with my it. I have never approved of it. And I do President Johnson used it back in Au­ colleagues in the Foreign Relations Com­ not wish my answer to indicate that I gust 1964 we give him 45 more days of mittee and in the Senate. However, I approve of the bombing, because I do not. power to continue the bombing in Laos, must make my views knovm, and I must Mr. EAGLETON. But the President Cambodia, and North Vietnam, to use as say that what we will be considering will exercise a power to bomb in Indo­ he sees fit. I deem that delegation of shortly is not an accommodation with china within the next 45 days, is that power to be the second coming of the the Chief Executive of this country, but correct? A power that will now be sanc­ Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. a capitUlation and an abdication of the tioned by our action? Mr. FULBRIGHT. It is already the constitutional powers of the Senate. Mr. FULBRIGHT. The President has law, and has been for some time, that he May I point out, Mr. President, that the power to do a lot of things of which I cannot take ground troops into Laos and under the Constitution, the Congress do not approve. Cambodia. That was the Church-Cooper shall have the power to lay taxes, to Mr. EAGLETON. He will exercise that amendment, I believe. That is already declare war, and to do certain other power, and whether he exercises that the law, and this does not disturb that. things. power wisely, we know that within the I do not think this compromise will The PRESIDING OFFICER. Will tIle next 45 days he will exercise a right to give him any right or authority he does Senator from Montana withhold t01' a bomb Cambodia-a right given him by moment? The Chair apologizes to thc not already have. I do not think he has the Congress of the United States. the authority. Senator, but other Senators are not ex­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. I do not consider Mr. CASE. Mr. President. will the Sen­ tending him the courtesy of attention. that he has the right to do it. But be­ The Chair has repeatedly asked tha t cause we are unable to muster the votes, ator yield? Senators remain at attention. this is a compromise that would stop it. Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield. Mr. CASE. Is it not the Senator's un­ The Senator may proceed. This is the time we have had a majority Mr. MANSFIELD. The warmaking of both Houses take any action to pro­ derstanding that the adoption of this resolution would add not one bit to the power is that. of Congress exclusively. hibit bombing. and the war in Cambodia does not have Mr. EAGLETON. But he would now President's authority in regard to bomb­ ing in Southeast Asia between now and a shred of validity attached to it. It is have the power by our action. Would he illegal, it is unconstitutional, it is im­ also have the power to bomb Laos? August 15? Mr. FULBRIGHT. As he viewed it, yes. Mr. FULBRIGHT. It is certainly my moral. And he would exercise the power. understanding that it does not give him \Vhy should ,,'e be afraid of a confron­ Mr. EAGLETON. He would have the any authority whatsoever. I do not be­ tation with the executive branch of this power as he viewed it to bomb NOlth lieve he has any authority. Government? Why do we have to cave in Vietnam and South Vietnam. Mr. CASE. I agree. so as to avoid the possibility of being un­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator is cor­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. But he has the able to ovenide a veto? \Vhy can we not rect. power. as long as the military forces will face up to our responsibilities under the Mr. EAGLETON. Under this resolution obey his commands. Constitution? Why can we not do what then-and the conversations have been Mr. CASE. And as long as we cannot we can to see that the reasons why '1ve carried on between the President and th1! get two-thirds of both Houses to over­ remained in Vietnam-to bring about Senator from Pennsylvania and have l'ide a veto; is that not correct? the withdrawal of all U.S. military per- 22308 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE June 29,1973 sonnel and the release of all U.S. pris­ August 15, there will be a request for heard in the Halls of Congress and on oners of war-are not repeated in Cam­ another extension and other arguments this fioor, the word "compromise." bodia? will be advanced. There are times and there are issues There are American prisoners of war The time to act on this is now-veto when one can never compromise. in Cambodia because of this bombing, or no veto. One does not compromise about the now in its 113th day. There are men who Mr. President, section 108 of the constitutional responsibilities of this have been killed in Cambodia, and there continuing resolution-the Eagleton body. will be more in the weeks and the months amendment-has already been approved One does not compromise about law. ahead. We have dropped, in bomb ton­ by the House of Representatives. It has One does not compromise about the nage in Cambodia in the past 5 months, already been approved unanimously by slaughter of innocents. It may be only a over 200,000 tons of bombs, on a poor, tlle Committee on Appropriations. The procedural teclmicality whether our hapless people living in a nation where language is not in dispute. It is not in bombs stop falling now, or 45 days from the majority of the inhabitants desire doubt. It would end the bombing. It now. But it is a matter of life and death nothing more than to be let alone. would make impossible the capture of for those on whom those bombs will fall. In the preceding 3 years, we, the United additional American flyers. It would I cannot understand what the admin­ States, dropped 175,000 tons of bombs on make impossible the collection again of istration expects to gain by communl­ Cambodia-as I say. on a poor, llapless American hostages-a lesson learned ciating to the world that we will bomb people who asked only to be left alone with the lives, the limbs, and the blood for 45 more days, and only 45 more to determine their own destiny. We are of Ame:'icans spilled throughout South days. If the bombing of Indochina sincf upholding a puppet government, and we Vietnam. the peace agreement has been totally un·· are doing it on a basis of the bombs we Three months ago we welcomed home constitutional up until now, as many of drop. We are not allowing the Cam­ those prisoners. Their captivity has my colleagues have expressed, and as I bodians to get together among them­ ended and they are back with us. also believe. then Congress is now ap­ selves to determine their own future. The issue before the Senate, therefore, proving and affirming an action that What we are doing, if we approve this is whether we are to lock this Nation totally emasculates the power and the SUbstitute, is agreeing to the policy of again inextricably into a conflict in constitutional role of Congress. In ef­ this administration past, now, and in Southeast Asia. The issue is whether, fect, Congress would be ratifying a past the future, at least until August 15. I once more, we will have to risk the lives and future action that we have judged cannot in good conscience accede' to the of Americans in order to bring back the to be illegal, unconstitutional, and im­ diminution of the constitutional power POW's-the pawns used to guarantee moral. of Congress. That has been happening in this Nation's involvement. We have no commitment to Cambodia" this institution since the days of Franklin The issue is whether we are to endorse Congress has said specifically, in Public Delano Roosevelt. We have voluntarily this bombing, this war, this policy that Law 91-652, passed on January 5, 1971, allowed the administrations, since that again opens the door to the confinement and amendments to the Foreign Assist­ time, to take over constitutional respon­ of American hostages-either for a day, ance Act passed into law on February 7, sibilities which are ours and should be 15 days, 45 days, or whatever. 1972, that we have no commitment to ours alone. Be it for a day, 10 days, a month, 2 the Government of Cambodia. Yet this No wonder people wonder at what we months, or 2 years, if the Senate administration, in violation of these are about. No wonder we do not enjoy the approves the bombing and the war, no words and this law of Congress, con­ regard which we should accrue to Mem­ date printed on a piece of paper will tinues to bomb in Cambodia. bers of this, the most deliberative legisla­ serve to get us out. Most assuredly, as Why are we, then, to have any kind tive body in the world. American POW's again emerge in South­ of credence that whatever we write into I wonder when we are going to face up east Asia, this Nation undoubtedly will a compromise today that might be signed to our responsibilities-veto or not-and remain there. To preclude that event and by the administration will be observed take our chances, stay in session if need prevent this ever-deepending enmesh­ by this administration, any more than be, and do what we can to express the ment, section 108-the Eagleton amend­ they have observed or failed to observe will of the American people. ment-of the continuing resolution Public Law 91-652? After all, we do have the responsibil­ should be adopted unaltered and intact. Mr. President, the administration's ac­ ities which I mention. We certainly Section 109 of the continuing resolu­ tions have constituted a commitment to should have learned since the first Amer­ tion-the Case-Church amendment­ Cambodia, any way we look at it, con­ ican casualty in Indochina was an­ should also be adopted as is and unal­ trary to the will of Congress and an act nounced on January I, 1961, what that tered, if we are to assure that the cancer signed into law by the President. By ap­ terrible misadventure, that tragedy, has of today's bombing in Cambodia does not proving that bombing in any way, shape, cost us. spread elsewhere in Indochina. or form, we become collaborators in an Do we realize that in all of Indochina I hope and pray that the Senate does action that is contrary to the law and up to a few weeks ago, we have dropped not alter or amend either provision. will of Congress, at least as we stated a total of 6.6 million tons of bombs? The bombing must stop-not next the will of Congress last week. Do we recollect that, as of the end of month, not on August 15, but now. There are some issues over which COlll­ World War II, in both the Pacific and In my jUdgment, the bombing will stop promise means a total contradiction of European theaters, we dropped a total if we will live up to our responsibilities past beliefs and principles, and this is of 3.2 million tons of bombs? and continue to maintain our support of one such occasion. Therefore, I will not In this insignificant part of the world, the Eagleton amendment and the Case­ support it. an area in which we have never had any Church amendment. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I op­ vital interest, an area which would have The time to do it is not 45 days from pose any compromise to set any fw·ther been better left alone, we have dropped now-the time to do it is now. date as a cutoff for America's bombing 3.3 million more tons of bombs than we Several Senators addressed the Chair. of Indochina. I urge the Senate to insist dropped on all our enemies during all of The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. that the bill we pass must end the bomb­ World War II? HUGHES). The Chair recognizes the Sena­ ing now-not tomorrow, not next week, The cost has been high for us, and the tor from Oregon (Mr. HATFIELD). not next month, but now, on the very day cost has been high for the Indochinese MI'. HATFIELD. Mr. President, I rise this long-awaited end-the-bombing bill people as well. at this time, with great reluctance, to becomes a law. \Vhere is this peace with honor which differ with the very distinguished chair­ Day after day, week after week, month we have heard about time and time and man of the Committee on Foreign Rela­ after month, millions of innocent men time again over the past several months'? tions and those other distinguished Mem­ and women and children of Cambodia I guess it is still a will of the wisp. I bers who have worked on this particular have endured the brutal onslaught of would place no credence in a resolution compromise. death and destruction rained down on or a substitute of this kind because, the I should like to point out that the code their homes and villages and country­ Lord only knows what will happen in word going ai'ound the Halls of Congress side by America's B-52's and America's the meantime, and the Lord only knows today and yesterday has been the word fighter bombers. what the Congress will do. Maybe, come "compromise." That is what we have Now at last, this week in Congress, the June 29, 19'18 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 22309 Members of the Senate and the House me before. and he wrote again. praising to consider that we cannot-as the de­ have closed ranks against the war. With Congress for our growing success against signers of this false compromise urge­ a strong and clear majority voice, we the war. and urging us to carryon our purchase a title to "responsibility" by re­ have spoken our demand that the Presi­ work. He writes: pudiating the will of our constituents and dent must stop the killing. Surely, we DEAR SENATOR KENNEDY: I have just the imperatives of our Constitution. cannot yield so soon in our common new­ received your letter of June 6 with copies Mr. BAKER. Mr. President. I want to found resolve to end the war. of the May 31 Congressional Record. It was commend the distingUished chairman of The compromise we are asked to ratify encouraging to read the Record and see that the Foreign Relations Committee and the majority of the Senate understands the the ranking minority Member for what by the President will go down in infamy problem we are faced with in Cambodia. I in American history. How can Congress have allowed some of my fellow otficers to I consider to be a fair and equitable solu­ possibly accept this cruel and calculated read the excerpts you sent me and they tion to the question of further U.S. in­ pact, a pact in which Members of the loa felt that finally the Senate was doing volvement in Indochina. Senate and the House are asked to ratify ~.01llething. Although I supported the President's the unconscionable and unconstitutional Our combined request is that the matter policy in that part of the world up warmaking of the President in recent he carried out to execution and not left to through the signing of the cease-fire die in Committee. We all realize that the weeks. What he is asking us-neither processes of government take tinle, but every agreements in Paris last January, I am more nor less-is amnesty for the day of delay means tons more bombs dropped convinced that we gain little from our slaughter of the past, and a license for rInd more people dead or dying. continued involvement and for that rea­ 6 more weeks of slaughter in Cambodia. You have our full support. son I am willing to support a funding Let us make no mistake about the Respectfully, cutoff. However, in view of the fact that principle now at stake. For years, going its looks possible to negotiate a cease-fire back beyond the begilming of this ad­ That is the view of our men in action. in Cambodia, to add to those already in minstration, many of us who vote today How can the Senate do less? existence throughout the rest of Indo­ have sought to end the war. At first, the Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I strongly china, I am particularly pleased that the ranks were small-no more than one or oppose this so-called compromise on the distinguished chairman has agreed to two, a decade ago. And then, as the war cutoff date for bombing in Indochina. It the date certain of August 15. If, by that went on and as thousands of young is not a compromise-it is one more abdi­ time, no agreement has been reached. Americans kept on dying for a cause we cation by Congress of its constitutional funds for continued involvement will run could not understand, the numbers be­ responsibilities. It gives the President out and the U.S. presence in that part of gan to grow. And then at last, this year, exactly what he has asked for as regards the world will come to an end. after all our troops and all our prisoners the date for the cutoff, and in doing so However, as that presence ends. let had come home, our numbers finally it puts Congress' seal of approval on any no one contend that we have failed tc reached a majority in both the Senate military action he may choose to take honor our commitments for the President and the House to say the war must end. in Indochina till August 15. will have done all in his power to bring How, today, so close to victory after Perhaps the sponsors of this "com­ peace to Southeast Asia and by-and­ we have stood so strong so firm so long, large, he has done an excellent job of it. can we give our great goal away? How promise" have in all good conscience per­ suaded themselves otherwise. I, pe~son­ What is required now, is a willingness can we yield to the President, and give ally, cannot ignore implications of this on the part of the leaders in Hanoi to him our authority and blessing to bomb action that is being urged upon us. Mr. accept our peacefUl intentions and to try and kill for 6 more weeks? for once to achieve politically what they If we accept this compromise, then we President, we know full well what inter­ pretation the administration-and the have tried and failed fo!' so long to dishonor the cause for peace for which achieve militarily. It would certainly be we have worked. so long. If we yield now, world-will place upon Congress' retreat in the face of Executive pressure. OUt re­ a welcome sign and it would truly initiate then the CambOdian blood that is shed the global generation of peace for which between now and August 15 will be on treat will be seen as a blank check to Mr. Nixon for pursuit of his war policies. the President has worked so hard. the hands of the Senate of the United Mr. STEVENSON. Mr. President, for 8 States, and none of us should have to And we know from long and bitter ex­ perience what use he is likely to make years I have opposed U.S. involvement in bear that stain. the Indochinese War. For 8 years, in and And it is all so futile. The compromise of that grant. I do not intend to vote for another Gulf of Tonkins. outside the Senate. I have supported has no justification in logic, let alone every effort to cut off funds for the con­ morality. If the President cannot There is another point to be made in this connection. By setting August 15 tinuation of U.S. involvement in thnt achieve a cease-fire today in Cambodia, war. Eaph such effort contained a dead­ he will not be able to do so 45 days from rather than June 30 as a cutoff date for U.S. military action in Cambodia and line for funding U.S. military efforts in now. If those who are fighting the Cam­ Indochina, and each failed. Now for the bodian civil war have survived the 100 Laos, we do nothing more than prolong the killing. It provides no incentive to first time I have a chance to support a days of relentless American bombing deadline which will not fail. since the Paris peace agreement was Cambodian and Laotian insurgents to stop fighting. It tells them only to hold By approving this amendment to the signed this year, they can survive an­ Senate does not condone for 1 minute other 45 days as well, but at a cost in on for another 6 weeks. Whatever dire consequences the administration sees as more the illegal and immoral bombing life and blood that AmeriCa has no right of Cambodia. What the Senate can say to ask. resulting from an immediate bombing halt will follow just as surely in late Au­ now, and at last with finality, is that U.S. In sum, the only purpose of the com­ involvement will end no later than Au­ promise proposed today is to save some gust as in early July. I repeat, Mr. Presi­ dent: It does nothing more than to pro­ gust 15. The Congress would not sanction shred of the President's tattered pres­ the war. It would end U.S. involvement tige. But think of the price we are asking long the killing-and to increase the likelihood of still more American casual­ in the war, and upon terms which pre­ the people of Cambodia to pay. The serve its constitutional authority. The price is 6 more weeks of killing, 6 more ties-American dead. wounded and POW·s. President has finally relented. weeks of bloodshed, 6 more weeks of our And the Congress now has no alter­ scorched earth policy in Cambodia, 6 In ac'opting the Eagleton and the native. There is no other way. The House more weeks of America's destruction of Case-Church amendments, the Congress will not override the President·s veto. We helpless peoples half a world away. was at long last expressing the clear will can stay here until doomsday passing I say, the Senate must not yield. of an overwhelming majority of the peo­ one bill after another to cut off the We must stand firm for an immediate ple we represent. If we back dO'\TI now funds-and all to no avail. The Con­ end to the bombing, and reject this im­ we shall be guilty not only of abdicating gress can defeat this amendment-and moral pact. How can any of us vote today our constitutional responsibilities but of accommodate the President with a con­ to approve 6 more weeks of ravaging a turning our backs on those to "'hom we frontation ~vhich will divert public at­ tiny lovely country named Cambodia? owe our deepest allegiance, our consti­ tention from his difficulties. It can bring One final word. A few days ago, I tu:mts. the functions of the Government to a received a letter from an American Air I, for one. do not intend to assume that haltr-and prolong the war. Or upon prin­ Force captain in Guam. He had written burden of guilt. And I urge my colleagues ciples many of us have supported for 8 22310 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 long years 'We can now finally end U.S. inference in this debate that those of us In all 8 years I have oPpOSed this war, involvement in this abominable conflict. who support the provision recommended there has been one thing that has always Mr. President, to conclude this com­ by the Committee on Foreign Relations been plain, and that is that Congress ment on an ignoble, yet reassuring, note, are somehow relegated to the ranks of would never write into law a provision if the Congress approves this amendment the impure, while those who oppose it terminating our part in the war, 'Without U.S. military activity cannot end later somehow stand on the side of conscience. the signature of the President. Is there a than August 15. It probably 'Will end I have a conscience, too. I do not wish man here who can convincingly argue sooner. President Nixon is not likely to to belabor the fact, but Members of the that we shall secure the President's sig­ wait until August 15 and then ignomin­ Senate know that I have opposed this nature on any proposal to cut off funds iously and abruptly terminate military war as long as any other Member of this now? The President has already vetoed activity. He will, having relented, now body, and I have worked as hard as I that proposition. And the House came seek a way out and at the earliest possi­ know how, through the Congress, to bring nowhere near overriding the veto? Do ble date. I am for giving him this last this war to an end. Senators think that by sending the Pres­ chance to end this horror upon our land So I do not have to be reminded that ident the same proposition again he will and theirs--no later thar. August 15. the war in Cambodia is an abomination. suddenly cave in, that he will not veto Mr. McINTYRE. Mr. President, I will It does not have to be emphasized, inso­ the next bill, and the next and the next? vote to support the pending amendment. far as I am concerned. that it is an un­ In fact, he has said to Members he will This is a terribly difficult vote for me constitutional exercise in Presidential veto more. How long do we wait for a to cast. I have stood firmly for ending the power. I do not need reminding about two-thirds vote in each House to mate­ war in Southeast Asia and for ending the the havoc our part has wrought to the rialize? How long will the war go on1 bombing in Cambodia. liocieties of Indochina and of North We may dispute indefinitely the Presi­ There has been no constitutional basis America. dent's exercise of authority, but we can­ for the bombing. If there were any way tonight that I not stop the war without his signature, The people of this Nation want it COUld, by opposing this resolution, bring unless we override his veto, for which stopped. the war to an immediate end, I would there is no prospect in sight. The mail from my constituents has oppose it. If there were a way I could So I have no troubles of conscience in been nearly unanimous in calling for an save the life of a single child, or of a urging this proposition on the Senate. I end to this bombing. young bride, or an old man in Cambodia do not think it will live in infamy. Indeed, Yet our Nation faces many-so many tonight, by voting against this resolution, it will be celebrated as a statutory action crucial problems today. I would vote against it. finally joining together the legislative We have the tragedy of Watergate. I say to the Senate, however, that I and executive branches to end Ameri­ Our prices have gone beyond the point cannot follow the argument made by our can participation in a war I have hated where millions of Americans can balance distinguished majority leader or by the and opposed for nearly a decade. I 'Wish their budget. Senator from Massachusetts or by the to God there had been a way to end it Our trade with the rest of the world Senator from Oregon. They have said sooner. But I am not going to slam shut is still a desperate problem. that if this proposition is accepted, the the door on this, our first real oppor­ We face an energy crisis which will tax Senate is somehow giving its blessing to tunity. our every capability to meet. an unconstitutional war, to an illegal Least of all would I regard this proposi­ Can we add to that the possibility of war, to an immoral war, to an idiotic tion as a "cave-in" by Congress. That further tearing our Nation apart by pos­ war. does not coincide with the facts at all. sibly bringing our Federal Government to Now, that is a novel argument. For this We have already passed one amendment a virtual standstill, delaying social se­ is not the first time that a deadline has that I supported, sponsored by the Sena­ curity checks, halting grants to States been placed in an amendment to end the tor from Missouri (Mr. EAGLETON). and localities, and causing extreme un­ war. I cannot remember, over the past Would that we could have enacted it into certainty and heartache among our several years, any proposal to end the law with the President's signature, but people. war that did not have a deadline. Cer­ Mr. Nixon vetoed that proposition, By adopting this amendment we will tainly, the McGovern-Hatfield proposal which called for an immediate cutoff of have, for the first time and agreement contained a deadline. and it was said funds. Wishing for it cannot get it with­ by the administration that a day certain then that it was immoral to SUppOl·t it, out the President's actual consent. has been established for removing our­ since our involvement in Vietnam was The Eagleton amendment, remember, selves from the terrible war in Southeast unconstitutional in that it had not been called for a partial cutoff; only as to Asia. This is not a minor accomplish­ ratified by Congress. Cambodia and Laos. I do not criticize it, ment. I was sponsor of two amendments di­ but that is all it related to. Now, we have I must say, however, that I want it rected toward limiting our involvement had some experience with partial cut­ clearly known that my vote is not a vote in this war, amendments that carried offs, and it has been uniformly bad. putting the stamp of approval on the and became law historically known as Congress cut off funds for sending bombing-it is not a vote that in any the Cooper-Church amendments. They combat troops into Laos, so the Presi­ way declares the constitutionality of contained deadlines, but it was never dent sent them into Cambodia, instead. what has been done in Cambodia or what said that we endorsed the war, because We then cut off funds for sending com­ may occur in the next 45 days. of the deadline. bat troops and military advisers into I am supporting this amendment as I worked for the Mansfield amend­ Cambodia, so we now have the bombs. the only possible way out of a nearly im­ ments. But it was never suggested, at Never have we seen a complete cutoff possible situation. any time during those debates, that be­ of funds for all military activity on the Mr. CHURCH addressed the Chair. cause there were deadlines contained land, from the sea, and in the air that Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, will in the Mansfield amendments, it was im­ encompasses every rart of Indochina. the Senator yield? moral to support them. It is no cave-in when Congress insists The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. This is not a contest of conscience, in upon a complete cutoff covering every HART). The Senator from Idaho is recog­ part of Indochina, covering every coun­ nized. which the side of the pure stands ar­ rayed against the impure. This is a stark try involved in these protracted hos­ Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President, it is most tilities. distressing to differ with a Senator I re­ and simple matter of how we bring this Do Senators think the President gard so highly as the distinguished Sen­ awful war to an end. wanted that? He fought against it, and ator from Massachusetts (Mr. KENNEDY) Those who argue against this resolu­ his representatives fought against it. or with our honored majority leader, Mr. tion have no way to bring this tragic war They said it could not be, but we have MANSFIELD, who has fought against this to an end-not tonight, not next week, secured it tonight, a complete cutoff, war in Cambodia and in Vietnam for so not by the end of the summer, or by the in exchange for the deadline date. long, with such determination and con­ end of the year. TIle bombing will go on, I would. prefer an immediate cutoff, Viction, or with the distinguished senior and the young, the old, the sick, and the but the President's signature is needed Senator from Oregon (Mr. HATFIELD). innocent will die-in larger numbers and if we are to achieve any cutoff at all. But, Mr. President, I also find it some­ for a longer period of time than if we Do we choose, instead, a futile debate, what repugnant that there should be an adopt this proposal tonight. flouting our impotence, and allowing this June 29, 197'3 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 22311 war in Cambodia to continue indefi­ stick with the Eagleton amendment and to have the 1st of August or, as the Sen­ nitely? Do not think prestige comes to the Case amendment. or to change the ator said, June 30. For all practical pur­ Congress because of its impotence, Do proposal of the Senator from Arkansas poses, June 30 is an immediate cutoff. not think we will be remembered because so as to strike August 30 and insert But, after all, we are not theoreticians; of the purity of our principles. June 30. we are talking about constitutional law. We have a chance now, after all these I think we are fooling ourselves. To Does the Senator have any practical years, to do what I thought tile oppo­ depend upon a law that we put on the reason to think that if we followed his nents of this war alwaYs wanted to do, books being carried out, if it suits the course. we could override a veto? No one namely to cut off funds and force an purpose of the man who is the man to has convinced me that that would suc­ end to our part in the war. That was carry it out, I submit will lead to a very ceed. What makes the Senator believe the principle of the McGovelTI-Hatfield intellectual argument about the date of that we can bring this war to a close amendment, the Mansfield amendments, August 15. sooner than AUgust 15? the Cooper-Church and Case-Church So just from a reasoned viewpoint in Mr. HASKELL. First, I agree with the amendments. Now comes the chance to support of a document that has made jUdgmental factor. As to whether the do it for all of Indochina and bring our country a great country, although President will veto, probably the Senator peace at last. I think this is a hard decision. I think is correct. Whether the House would fail There is not a man who opposes this the thing to do is to vote against a man to ovenide, as I recall there was a 27­ measure who can offer us another way, whom I greatly admire, the distin­ vote margin the last time. But I come let alone a better way, to do it. So I will, guished Senator from Arkansas. back and say to the distinguished Sen­ with good conscience, vote for the reso­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, will ator from Arkansas that in view of this lution. the Senator yield? accumulation of violence, in view of what, Mr. HASKELL, Mr. MOSS. and Mr. Mr. HASKELL. I yield. at least in my opinion, could have led EAGLETON addressed the Chair. Mr FULBRIGHT. I, of course, have us to tighten this formula, there has to The PRESIDING OFFICER. May the the greatest respect for the Senator be a time when I think a line has to be Chair first explain that I am advised we from Colorado. I think he has great un­ drawn. I think. in my judgment, that are operating under the rule, and the derstanding of this matter. this is the time to do it. Chair is directed to recognize the Sen­ I should like to ask him to consider I am very much concerned as to ator who first addressed the Chair. That an alternative. First, I may say that a whether-and this is judgment again-it is not always easy to determine. I hope number of Senators who have spoken would be interpreted by the President as there is understanding. The Senator here have begun their disagreement with weakness. I am concerned as to whether from Colorado is recognized. this kind of proposal very recently. A on August 10, if things have not gone the Mr. HASKELL. Mr. President, I would short time ago-a matter of months­ way the President would like them to go, like to put this in a slightly different they were willing to vote for a 6-month sOllle excuse will be manufactured. I context than it has been put before. cutoff. This proposal is for 45 days, as think the chances are even. I think that I have for many, many years admired the Senator knows. if the President feels that things are not the Senator from Arkansas, and I ad­ This is the end of the fiscal year. It going the way he wants them to go, an mire him greatly for his courage over is true that we can precipitate clashes excuse will be manufactured. the years in doing what I thought was and cut off funds for the operation of Mr. FULBRIGHT. An excuse to do right and in following his conscience. the Government. But then which posi­ what? I think his conclusion at this time, tion will the country support? The posi­ Mr. HASKELL. To continue the war his intellectual conclusion is wrong and tion of Congress or the position of the and continue the bombing. I wish to give my reasons, at least in Executive? From our point of view, of Mr. FULBRIGHT. No resolution would my opinion, why he has come to the course, I have no doubt what I would be effective if the President is determined wrong conclusion. do. It would be Congress. to resume the bombing. Let us examine what has happened. It is true that in some areas we have Mr. HASKELL. I am sure that a legal­ We have first the President going to war. not been doing well. But I think we have istic basis could be devised on which to One does not need to be a constitutional been doing well in many of the areas we circumvent this legislation, if they say lawyer to know that violates the Con­ have been speaking of. I am very anxious what was desirable on August 10. I think stitution. We have, second, a President to avoid making a mistake which would we have at this time to impose the will of the United States cutting off programs turn us around as representatives of the of Congress in an area in which I think by the eupthemism of impoundment-­ country and in the interests of the peo­ everyone agrees is within the area of failing, as the Constitution says he will, ple of the country. CongrE;ss. to carry out the laws of the United I agree that in this area we can legit­ Mr. :FULBRIGHT. If the President is States. That is a second unconstitutional imately differ. I have the greatest re­ going to violate the date we have in the act, and the lower courts have so held. spect for the majority leader's position, resolution, why would he not violate the We have the President seeking reorga­ as I do for that of the Senator from provisions of the Eagleton amendment, nization of the Government in certain Colorado. But what we are confronted if he is going to disregard the law which aspects without the action of Congress. with is a fact of life, he has accepted? That is what the Sen­ That has been held unconstitutional in I disapprove of the war just as much ator is saying. the lower courts. as anyone else. If we had not had a veto, I do not understand it any better. We Next, we have the President at one I would not support this proposal. But all voted-not all of us, but I did-for time through one of its spokesman mak­ I have some reason to feel that the Presi­ the Eagleton amendment, which was ing a ridiculous claim of executive privi­ dent will veto the bill again. From his vetoed. Suppose the President had ac­ lege which, again, obViously was uncon­ point of view, he is in a very difficult polit­ cepted it. It would only have been an in­ stitutional. ical situation today on account of things hibition on Cambodia and Laos. He could We have had, in my opinion, I say the Senator has mentioned, especially continue to wage war in all Of Vietnam, to the Senate, a deliberate avoidance the hearings in the Senate committee, which is, after all, where all this trouble of and an attempt to subvert the Con­ such that he probably would welcome was precipitated. stitution of the United States. Where a confrontation. If the results should Mr. HASKELL. I would agree with the does that take us? In my O\\TI personal fall upon the employees of the Govern­ Senator from Arkansas that the Senator opinion, this is the time to draw the line. ment, the disruption that would result from Arkansas' amendment would be This is the time when the confrontation from this would be a diversion from what far better. If the Senator from Arkansas has got to come to a head. We have be­ is now going on in the committee under had said June 3D, I would certainly hare fore us a bill which will bring that con­ the able chairmanship of the distin­ supported it. frontation. I am not saying that on one gUished Senator from North Carolina But in response to the Senator's ques­ side are all the angels or that on the (Mr. ERVIN). tion: If the President will find away, other side are all the devils, I am saying These are difficult accommodations to and if he wants to find a way around it that, as a matter of logic, this is the weigh when we come down to the ques­ on August 10, why would he not find a time to stand up for the Constitution. tion of what is the way to assure an way arolmd it now? That is a very good I am saying that the way to do it is to early end to the war. I would hare liked question. 22312 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 But this is a question I would like and the last vestiges of our military in­ Fourth of July recess. We will have fire­ answered, and this is the question that volvement in that quadrant of the world works, either here or in our home state, it seems to me is for the long-run benefit is that relentless and senseless bombing and we will rain tons and tons of bombs of the country to have. of Cambodia. on Indochina as our Independence Day Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I So, the facts and the conditions are gift to the Cfnbodians~ thought we answered it as far as imme­ vastly different now than they were be­ We are the ones being cowed. Make diately is concerned. If anyone could fore. And our vote today should consider no mistake about that. We a.re caving in t11ink of a good reason to change the date those changed circumstances. when we think of a veto. We run and to June 30, I would change my mind. I Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President, I appre­ give him his way. do not think it would be effective, as ciate very much that times have changed. Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will the demonstrated by what has already hap­ I have felt that our involvement. at least Senator yield? pened. from the time of the repeal of the Gulf Mr. EAGLETON. I yield. It is only 45 days as against 6 months. of Tonkin resolution was unconstitu­ Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, I fully Several resolutions we have voted for 1n tional. Was it ever suggested before that subscribe wholeheartedly to everything the past in an attempt to achieve· the by voting for a deadline, we were legit­ the distinguished Senator from Missouri same resultl: were not able to be passed in amizing the war or were somehow accept­ has said. Those of us who have supported the House. I thank the Senator, and I ing its validity? I never remember that his amendment time and time again, if appreciate his attitude. argument being used until tonight. It we go along with this compromise. will Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, will was never used in connection with any go along with it tongue in cheek and the Senator yield? of the other amendments that had a with a very, very heavy heart. Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield to the Sena­ deadline. The question has now become a rather tor from Missouri. The issue of the validity and uncon­ realistic and pragmatic one. The ques­ Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, I stitutionality of the war was the same tion here now, in view of the fact that would like to address a brief commentary then as now. the House has refused to override the to the eloquent remarks espoused by the It is a new and novel argument now. President's veto, is where do we go from distinguished Senator from Idaho. He is Mr. EAGLETON. It is not new or novel. here? Do we bring an end to this im­ a gifted articulate and persuasive orator, The alleged premise by President Nixon, moral conflict as of August IS, or do we and indeed he has devoted much of his once the Gulf of Tonkin joint resolution go on having an indefinite period? time and energy for the past 7 or IJ years was repealed, for the continued presence That is the question that we have to in the Senate trying to bring the horrible of American troops in Southeast Asia decide here tonight. To me, this is going Indochina war to an end. was to maintain the peace, and to protect to be a very hard choi.ce to make. I know I say to the Senator and to any other the troops in preparation for withdrawal. how the Senator from Missouri feels Senators sharing the same beliefs, that That justification was terminated on about this. And no one can question or no one here considers the motives of March 28, 1973, when the last American challenge the arguments he is making, those who sponsored this amendment to left Indochina. because if it is immoral to kill after be sinister, corrupt, or immoral. The de­ I say alleged because I disagree with August 15, surely it is immoral to kill now, But the question is if we can stop this bate here is on a matter of philosophy. that previous claim of power. Once the immorality after August 15, rather than And no one has questioned the capabili­ Gulf of Tonkin resolution was repealed, to have it go on for God knows how ties or the integrity of any of those who there was not one whit of constitutional long, is it not better to go about it in a espouse the Fulbright proposal, erroneous or statutory authority for the President realistic and practical way and say. "For as I deem it, personally, to be. to keep American troops in Southeast goodness gracious, let us bring this to an Some mention was made by the Sena­ Asia. Nonetheless, the President argued end." tor from Idaho of previous resolutions that he was protecting Americans, and That is the question that confronts us. that had deadlines-the McGovern­ a majority in both Houses saw fit to sup­ It is not a question of who is cowed by Hatfield and the Cooper-Church. Yes, port him. whom or who is retreating from whom. there have been previous end-the-war Over the years, as the Senator from We have a very hard and delicate ques­ resolutions and end-the-war bills and Arkansas pointed out, he proved that he tion to decide here. end-the-war amendments that had es­ had the power to sustain his position. I can see it both ways. to tell the Sen­ tablished deadlines for the cut-off. The reason we put in a time-certain ator the truth. I tllink it was wrong for However, there is a big difference be­ limitation during those periods was to the President of the United States to tween now and the time that some of work out an arra;ngement so that the veto the bill we sent to him. I think that those were offered several years ago. troops would be safe and would not have the bill we sent to him was not a rebuke That was a time when there were half a to flee from the beaches. to the Presidency. It was really a part­ million American combat troops on the But the situation we find ourselves nership on the part of Congress and a ground in South Vietnam. And the al­ in tonight is a much different matter. willingness to share the responsibility leged excuse for the troops being there at Tonight we are confronted with the of bringing this conflict to an end. all, after the Gulf of Tonkin joint resolU­ prospect that it will all begin again­ The President saw fit to veto that bill tion was repealed, was that the President this time with our sanction. and he sent it back to the House where was protecting those troops-and that The Senator from Idaho made a very they would have the first chance to over­ he needed time to draw down the articulate statement and said that the ride the veto. They sustained the Presi­ troops-and that he wanted, as some President would not be cowed-when he dent's action. have expressed it to avoid a Dunkirk­ vetoed the previous bill. We passed a Now, in view of that, what do we do? type situation. bill the other day that had a fund cutoff What do we do? Do we go along, just Some of those measures had 90 days for Cambodia. He vetoed it. He said he passing these amendments time and time and some had 6 months. And most of did not like it, that it was nasty, or that again, having them vetoed by the Presi­ them were contingent on the release of Congress should not do that. dent, and have this conflict and this im­ our POW's. Yes, there were time limi­ Instead of the Senator saying that the morality go on indefinitely, or do we say tations based upon the circumstances and President will not be cowed, we must to ourselves, "God help us, and God for­ the conditions we found ourselves in in ask ourselves whether we will be cowed. give our sins, that we permit this con­ Southeast Asia in those years. However. Because the President shows guts, deter­ flict up to August 15?" this is the year 1973. Today the President mination, doggedness, et cetera, are we I say this is going to be an act of con­ cannot claim that he has an inherent then to shrink, or to shirk or to hide? trition for everyone in this Chamber who power to protect American forces. Because the President says that he will votes for this compromise. but, short of Mr. CHURCH. Mr. President, will the use the veto, do we become whiplashed voting for the compromise, what is the Senator yield? into conforming to his desire? alternative? The alternative is that the Mr. EAGLETON. I will be glad to yield Maybe the President will not be cowed. President will go on indefinitely unless in a moment. However, we are apparently not going we tie up the mechanism of government, This is a year in which we no longer to test him. To use one of L. B. J.'s and each alternative is really bad. have American combat troops on the phrases, we will cut and run first. But that is the choice we have here ground in Southeast Asia. thank God, We are going home next week for the this evening, and I am sorry to say that June 29, 1973 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 22313 I for once in my life have to abandon of the bombing for an additional period The President has never sought con­ a strongly held conviction in order to of time. gressional authority to engage in a war bring about, in the best way I can, the In referring to the gray area which in Cambodia. Yet he now seeks our back­ choice between two evils. separates the war powers of Congress door sanction by a false compromise. This is no longer a question of right or and the President, Prof. Alexander Bick­ Congress should not be intimidated into wrong. The question here tonight is, Of el stated that, in the absence of a war doing indirectly what it would never do the two evils, which is the lesser one? powers statute, our only legal benchmark directly. That is what we will vote on. is the "constitution of practice." And if Mr. MONDALE. Mr. President, will the Mr. MOSS. Mr. President, will the we enshrine the current claim of broad Senator yield? Senator yield for a question? powers under the Commander in Chief Mr. EAGLETON. I yield to the Senator Mr. EAGLETON. I yield brieflY for a. clause by authorizing continued combat from Minnesota. question. activities in Indochina, we will present Mr. MONDALE. As I have listened to Mr. MOSS. I wanted to ask the Sena­ future Presidents with a legal carte this debate, it seems to revolve around tor, if we should pass the bill with the blanche to wage unilateral and :m­ the question of how Congress can effec­ Eagleton amendment on it, and it passes authorized war. tively end the war. The Senator from both Houses-it has already passed the We have created a legend around the Idaho makes a very strong argument that House of Representatives-and is sent to tough, lonely decisions that are made by even though he would like to end the war the President, and he vetoes it, is that the one man who occupies the oval of­ tonight, and would have wished to have the responsibility of the Senate or is it fice. But today each of us is faced with a ended it 8 years ago, he sees no prospect the responsibility of the President, that decision that could mean life or death of passing the Eagleton amendment over he stops the whole Government from for American pilots or Cambodian citi­ the veto of the President. His position is operating? zens. Each of us must agonize over the that overriding the President's veto· is Mr. EAGLETON. The President of the burden of our own office--we must really the only remedy that Congress United States exercises the power of agonize over the great responsibility as­ possesses. veto. He is the one who decides whether signed to the legislative branch by the But it is not the case that there is an­ the Government is going to come to a Constitution. other important remedy that we do con­ screeching halt. We will send him a con­ Earlier this week a dangerous new ele­ trol, which does not require the vote of tinuingresolution that permits every ment was introduced into the Cambo­ two-thirds of the Congress; namely, the agencY in the Government to be funded dian situation-an element which greatly Withholding of the resources that the and to function. The President makes his increases the risk of our continued in­ President needs to continue this war if he decision. If he says, "I have got to keep volvement. Russian surface-to-air mis­ refuses to comply with the wishes of Con­ bombing those people 45 days more and siles are now being used against Ameri­ gress. Is it not at this very moment that that is more precious to me than that the can aircraft in Cambodia. the request for an increase in the debt Government continue to function," the Our decisionmaking burden is there­ ceiling is pending before Congress? choice is his. fore greater today. Will we vote to risk If the President refuses to sign the Mr. MOSS. We bomb with honor until the lives of our pilots for a cause which Eagleton amendment, and if we cannot August 15, and after that it becomes even the administration has difficulty override his veto, we have another rem­ murder; is that right? defining? And will we risk the possibUity edy that we can clearly succeed in; Mr. EAGLETON. Well, that is the con­ that one of those pilots flying over Cam­ namely, we can refuse to increase the tention of the Senator from Rhode Is­ bodia will become the first POW of the debt ceiling which will, regrettably, bring land. He says this is an act of contrition. Cambodian war? the American Government to a halt. But I do not know what we are about to com­ If that happens, we can forget about I think that is a small price to pay to end mit here tonight, whether it is a venial terminating our involvement on August this tragic war immediately. It is a viable s,ln or a mortal sin. 15 or any other "compromise" date. If remedy, however regrettable, and it is one What is 45 days worth to us? We will that happens, you can be sure that we that we can succeed in if a majority of be on vacation part of that time, so may­ will be asked to extend the administra­ Congress wishes immediately to end that be we will not care. tion's authority-we will be asked to give war. What is 45 dayS worth to the Cambo­ our negotiators the leverage they re­ Is my analysis correct to the Senator dians? I have been there only once. It quire to obtain the release of our POW's. from Missouri? is a very pleasant place, or used to be. And we will find ourselves locked in the Mr. EAGLETON. I would say that the We have rained down, in the last 6 deadly embrace of yet another war­ analysis of the Senator from Minnesota months over Cambodia, more bombs in this time in Cambodia. is correct. But I would add one adden­ tonnage thanin the previous 3 years over Mr. President, it is our duty to appro­ dum: that the continuing resolution it­ Vietnam. In 45 more days, we can create priate funds so that the Government can self is an equally viable vehicle to achieve even more havoc, if that be our desire. operate. And by passing vital appropria­ the same results which the Senator from Mr. President, it has been said that the tions bills prior to the end of the fiscal Minnesota desires-to wit, the imme­ legislative process is the art of the pos­ year we are performing that duty. But diate termination of the bombing in sible-that in fashioning any piece of it is also our solemn duty to decide how, Cambodia. legislation compromises or accommoda­ when and where our Nation goes to war. What it boils down to is this: The bill tions must be made. For much of the leg­ And by attaching a cutoff amendment is on the President's desk as the con­ islative process this rule would apply. to these bills, we perform our duty ac­ tinuing resolution. He must stare out his But the continued bombing of Cam­ cording to our own sense of it. window and he must decide-one man bodia is not an issue that yields to com­ But the President has a duty as well­ alone-is 45 more days of bombing Cam­ promise. Congress cannot sanction an a duty to carry out the laws as enacted bodia more precious to him than con­ unconstitutiq,nal and illegal endeavor for by Congress. And he has a duty to as­ tinuing the functioning of the U.S. Gov- "just a little while." There is no way of sure that the Government of the United ernment? • being just a little bit unconstitutional, or states continues to operate into the next That is what is involved in the debt just a little bit illegal. fiscal year. If he chooses to reject the c:illing bill and the continuing resolu­ 1 The Secretary of State asked the For­ appropriations we provide him for that tion. That is what the President must ~ign Relations Committee the other day purpose, then he must accept the full face when the money runs out. for continued power to conduct combat responsibility for the consequences of He has decided with respect to an ear­ activities in cambodia and Laos. We are that action. lier bill, the supplemental appropriation, not being asked to give new authority, we We should not be bludgeoned into giv­ that the bombing was worth more than are being asked to sanction the Presi­ ing legitimacy to President Nixon's ille­ the money in that bill. So he has made dent's claim that he does not require our gal Cambodian war. Under our Constitu­ hi:: decision there. authorization. In effect, Congress would tion, the decision to go to war belongs to I should like to see him make his de­ be retroactively ratifying all the illegal Congress. By a series of record votes, cision with regard to whether bringing bombing in Cambodia that has occurred Congress has expressed its will-that the Government to a halt, is good, logical to date, and would be giVing its blessing, there be no more American involvement governmental wisdom, whether it was however reluctantly, to the continuation in a cambodian war. pOSSible to bring the Government to a CXIX--1407-Part 17 22314 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 halt so that he could bomb in Cambodia nero We are into a corner. The decision bombing and I would· like him to ex­ for 45 more days. we have to make tonight is not a deci­ plain how it would stop the bombing, I have disagreed with President Nixon sion on what is right or what is wrong, because there is in the pipeline so much on many things, but I believe that when but a decision on what is the best course money that we have already appropriat­ he considers those two things on balance, to follow as between two evils-and I am ed for military matters, defense, this that he would sit there and say, "No, I will suggesting that the lesser of the two and the other thing, that the bombing not bring the Government to a halt. It is evils is to compromise. couId go on and on and on for an in­ better for the Government to function Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, may definite period of time while we were than to gain a few more days to bomb I respond to the distinguished Senator passing any bills favoring stopping the in Cambodia." from Rhode Island (Mr. PASTORE) by war now, and necessary vetoes that Mr. MONDALE. There is no doubt that saying that we have let ourselves be would come along, and sending the bills Congress possesses a majority for the forced into this corner. After one veto, back to us. That is why I have taken my Eagleton amendment. We have already we have taken a ··powder." We have for­ stand with the Senator from Arkansas, clearly demonstrated that. If the ques­ feited our role within our system. unhappily, and reluctantly. But I do not tion is whether we possess the power to No one is talking about bringing the believe that we have the capacity to stop end the war ip1mediately, the answer is Government to a screeching halt. In the it now. Together we have the capacity "yes." It does not rest on our capacity to colloquy between the Senator from Min­ to stop that war on August 15. override a veto, as has been suggested nesota (Mr. MONDALE) and myself, I re­ Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, first here, but on the capacity, by mustering sponded to him that I did not think that of all it is my presumption-I will never only a majority, to refuse to adopt the that would occur because, in all ration­ be able to test it, because we have ap­ continuing resolution or to increase the ality, when the President is faced with a parently decided to cave in early in the debt ceiling, either or both. If we do choice as between bombs in Cambodia game here-but if we had stayed and either, the President must accede to and the functioning of the Government, persisted in our efforts, expressed twice our request because he will not have the he would choose the latter. I fully believe on the fioor of the Senate already, and resources to proceed with the war; is that. also on the floor of the House-with this tllat not correct? We are the ones who are taking the cutoff placed before the President on Mr. EAGLETON. That is correct. premature "powder." We are the ones the final day when he must decide be­ Mr. MONDALE. I thank the Senator that have to pay the penalty for it in tween cutting the nurses or closing the from Missouri very much. terms of our own judgment. hospitals it is my position and belief Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will'the Mr. MOSS. Mr. President, will the that the President would sign that con­ Senator from Missouri yield? Senator from Missouri yield? tinuing resolution and the bombing Mr. EAGLETON. I yield. Mr. EAGLETON. I yield. would be terminated after that point, Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, I am Mr. MOSS. I was going to ask the because the language in any of these afraid that what we are doing is simpli­ Senator from Missouri what was he re­ amendments talks about money appro­ fying the unsimplifiable. sponding to. The Senator from Rhode priated or heretofore appropriated. The We say we can bring the Government Island, who many of us recognize is pipeline would be covered by that all­ to a halt. May I remind all Senators that perhaps the most eloquent and persuasive inclusive language. we have thousands and thousands of of all Senators in this body, continually Mr. CRANSTON. However, if that paraplegics and veterans of Vietnam made reference to the fact that we were judgment is wrong and the President who cannot even light their own cig­ going to bring the Government to a vetoes, he will have the capacity to go arettes, and who have to be pushed by screeching halt, that we would be hurt­ on bombing while we hassle with him. a nurse. ing the paraplegics, that we would' be because of the money already in the If we do not pay the nurse and the stopping the functioning of the hospitals, pipeline which is available for that pur­ nurse does not report to work,what is and all the rest. pose. that paraplegic going to do? Well, Mr. President, we are not going Mr. EAGLETON. We run to the point This is serious business. If anyone has to do any such thing. where the continuing resolution would agonized over this compromise, it has We passed the provisions for money to affect him, so far as the bombing policy been the Senator from Rhode Island. go ahead, so if it goes out of the Congress, is concerned, as it would any other de­ Yes, if we could accomplish our purpose, all of it goes ahead. If it is stopped, it will partment of government, foreign or do­ I would say, "Let us stand pat." But if be stopped by one man down at the mestic, in the sense that he could not we do not accomplish the purpose, there White House, and then we must decide pay the pilots flying the bombing runs. are thousands and thousands of veterans how to add up to it. But I do not believe The Secretary of Defense has already in our hospitals lying in bed who can­ for 1 minute that the President of the testified that the language of the Eagle­ not take care of themselves. United States would permit all of this ton amendment would stop the bombing. If we bring that to a halt, what have Government to come to a halt simply be­ Mr. HARTKE. Mr. President, I would we done? cause he wanted to drop some more say in regard to the debt limit that it The best appeal I say is, "All right, Mr. bombs on Cambodia. expires on June 30. The Secretary of the President, we will give you August 15, Mr. EAGLETON. I absolutely agree Treasury says that they will not have but in the name of commonsense, in the with the Senator from Utah. The Presi­ any more money at least until after r.:1me of God, do not bomb until August dent of the United States has a great July 10. That means that on July 11, if 15th." Let us make that admonition to deal more commonsense and a great deal we stop paying the veterans' hospitals­ him. more wisdom than to see the total stop­ and I am chairman of the Veterans' Af­ But let us not stop the mechanisms of page of tIns Government because he fairs Committee and I believe that the government, because if we do, the injury wanted a few more days of bombing in veterans ofthis country are willing to go and the irreparable harm will be un­ Cambodia. ahead and take their side on the side of told, and it will remain on our souls. Be­ Several Senators addressed the Chair. people, Congress, to go ahead and bring cause, what are we going to say to those Mr. EAGLETON. Mr. President, I this war to an end, if that is what is boys in the hospital? How are the nurses yield to the Senator from California (Mr. necessary. But the fact is that you can­ and the other staff people going to be CRANSTON), and then I will yield to the not pay the bombers or the veterans, paid if we bring government to a halt? Senator from Indiana (Mr. HARTKE). either one. You cannot pay anybody. If Oh, yes, if we could stop the Defense Mr. CRANSTON. The Senator said, in you stick to your guns, with the Eagle­ Department, I would vote for it tomor­ response to the Senator from Minnesota ton amendment, there is no question that row. But what about sewers, water, edu­ (Mr. MONDALE), that we have the capac­ on July 11 the President will not have cation, and health-are we going to stop ity to stop the war now if we pass the any money to pay anybody, including all of that? continuing resolution that was vetoed, the bombers. That is the point. That is Is that not the challenge here tonight? and if we pass the debt limit bill that the point the Senator from Missouri is These are serious questions. was vetoed because of the anti-Cam­ making so eloquently. He is doing a good I repeat, Senator EAGLETON, you are ab­ bodia bombing provision on it, that that job. solutely right. I do not question yOU one would stop it now. I question the Sen­ Mr. EAGLETON. I thank the Senator bit. But they have forced us into a cor- ator's response that that would stop the from Indiana. June 29, 1973 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 22315 Mr. HARTKE. I do not know where President's effort to withdraw United States finally agreed that a date certain would these assurances came from. I do not forces from combat in Southeast Asia." be acceptable to them and would be know whether the President talked to the I know that there have been state­ signed into law, so that as of August chairman of the Committee on Foreign ments since that. 15-<1n or before August 15-no more Relations. Has he talked to Senator When we come back on August 15, we American military involvement will take ERVIN yet? will have a statement from Secretary-I place anywhere in Indochina. Not only I should like the attention of the was going to say Secretary Kissinger­ does that terminate the bombing in Cam­ chairman of the Foreign Relations Com­ from Mr. Kissinger such as he made be­ bodia and in Laos, but also, it forecloses mittee, to ask him where he got the as­ fore the election: "Give me 5 more days the possibility of American military op­ surances that August 15 was going to be and I'll have it cleared up," Right after erations in North or South Vietnam. the termination date. the election, 30 more days. It goes without saying that I have re­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. I assume the Sena­ Does the Senator from Missouri think gretted every day of this war for as tor was not here. The assw'ances came that on August 15 we will be back here many years as I can remember, and I from the White House, by way of the arguing the same matter? wish it were possible for us to make the minority leader. Mr. EAGLETON. I am somewhat sus­ Eagleton amendment stick tonight in Mr. HARTKE. From the general coun­ picious, as are the Senator from Indiana terminating military operations in sel? and the Senator from Colorado (Mr. Cambodia and Laos. We tried that ap­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. From the President HASKELL), that somewhere between now proach. It led to a veto. Now we have of the United States? and August 15, unforeseen circumstances an opportunity to take an action that Mr. HARTKE. Did the President com­ are going to develop that will require would become law, that would become municate it directly or through Mr. some kind of prolongation of American the law of the land, that would termi­ Laird? participation in Southeast Asia. Either nate all military operations on or be­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. It is my information it will be of a military type or perhaps fore August 15. That is a great victory. that he communicated directly with the the type where we are at a very delicate It is not a capitulation for the Senate minority leader, who was here a moment phase of negotiation. Secret negotiations at all. It is the culmination of years of ago, and I assume it was before the Sen­ will be going on somewhere, and we will effort on the part of Members of this ator came in. be told that we are at a "delicate stage" body to achieve something that here­ Mr. HARTKE. Perhaps when we come where "if you can just give us a few more tofore we could not get passed in Con­ back on August 15, we will find out that tons of bombs, we think we can move a gress, to say nothing of approval by the somebo<1y said that somebody said that little at the negotiating table," I would President of the United States. somebody said the President said. not be at all surprised if something like But there is one other point I want to I should like to refer the Senator from that came along. make here this evening. The Senator Missouri to certain dates, and I read The whole litany of Indochina, as the from Rhode Island (Mr. PASTORE) spoke from a publication of the Foreign Rela­ Senator pointed out in his quotations, so eloquently about the dilemma he feels, tions Committee relating to Southeast has been replete with many pious assur­ and I think all of us feel, about making Asia. ances, all totally unfulfilled. a choice between these two approaches: May 5-President Nixon meets with con­ Mr. HARTKE. The Senator reminds whether we go along with the suggestion gressional committees to explain U.S. In­ me of a Biblical quotation: of the Senator from Missouri (Mr. EAGLE­ volvement In Cambodia. He assures them When Pilate saw that he could prevail TON), which he made so well, but taking that American troops would be withdrawn a chance on another veto, and I am al­ from Cambodia In 3 to 6 weeks. nothing, but that rather a tumUlt was made, he took water, and washed his hands before most certain it will draw a veto, or That was May 5, 1970. Is that the same the mUltitUde, saying, I am Innocent of the whether we take the approach recom­ type of assurance we have for August 15? blood of this just person: see ye to it. mended by the Senator from Arkansas May 13-Secretary Rogers makes bls first Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. President, first, (Mr. FuLBRIGHT) and go for the date detailed public remarks on the operations in let me say that I can appreciate, as I certain of August 15. Cambodia. He says: "This Is not an escala­ think all Members of the Senate can, I would like to suggest to the Senate tion•••• It is not an attempt to win a mUl­ that we can do oath. We can approve the tary victory." ,,, Mr. Rogers says tbat tbe both the moral and the political dilem­ bombing of Cambodian enemy bases and sup­ ma we are in with regard to the ques­ compromise proposal suggested by the ply routes and the patrolling of International tion now pending. It is my belief that Committee un Foreign Relations and add waters could be continued after the Presi­ every Member on this floor, at least those it to this bill. It is pending before the dent's deadline. He states, "We don't intend who have participated in the debate thus Senate now as an amendment to the con­ to become Involved militarily in support of far, is struggling to find the most prac­ tinuiqg resolution. We have assurance any Cambodian Government. ,,. I am talk­ tical way to bring the war to an end at that that bill 'Ivill then be signed into ing about United states troops, or air sup­ law by the President. There is nothing port." ••• He emphasizes that the United the earliest possible time. States would not become "militarily In­ It is not really a question of principle in that action that precludes the Sen­ volved" to defend the Cambodian at all. It is a question of which strategy ator from Missouri (Mr. EAGLETON), or Government. will achieve the result we seek, and that the senator from Idaho (Mr. CHURCH), is to put an end to the bombing in Cam­ or the Senator from New Jersey (Mr. On May 26, 1970, after the Cooper­ CASE) on their amendments or any other Church amendment was adopted--and I bodia and Laos and to avoid the possi­ bility of involvement in a military opera­ Senator from offering an amendment to am sorry the distinguished senator from immediately terminate American mili­ Idaho is not here: tion in North and South Vietnam. So far as I am concerned, as one who tary operations, and to attach that The senate votes 82-11 to amend the pre­ has been involved in this effort for a amendment to the debt ceiling bill or amble to tbe Cooper-ChurCh amendment to any other bill from here on out. This is probiblt assistance to Cambodia. In order to number of years, it is the happiest day of meet the objections of the White House, the my life that the administration has fi­ the approach I personally intend to take. sponsors revise the preamble to emphasize nally agreed to a terminal date on all I am going to back the substitute amend­ that the amendment is being offered "In con­ American military operations everywhere ment by the senator from Arkansas (Mr. cert with the declared objectives of tbe Presi­ in Indochina. Perhaps some Members of FuLBRIGHT) as something I know we can dent of the United states to avoid the In­ the Senate had expected more of the ad­ pass through the Congress of the United volvement of the United States In cambodia States and that I know the President after July 1." ministration than that. Frankly, I llad not. I had a rather pessimistic view of will sign. Once that is done, whether it I have just one more quotation: what we were confronted with in deal­ is the debt ceiling bill coming out of May 23-In a statement before the Ham­ ing with the present administration and conference or any other measure that marskjold Forum of the Association of the their policy in Indochina. comes before the Senate, I intend to sup­ Bar of the City of New York, John Stevenson, I could only feel a note of great sat­ port any move that is offered by the Sen­ Legal Adviser to the Department of State, outlines the legal basis of the United Sta.tes isfaction that, at long last, the adminis­ ators especially interested in this pro­ and South Vietnamese operations In cam­ tration had finally capitulated on an is­ posal and if no one elects to offer it, I bodia. He states tbat the "current actions In sue that some of us have been pressing in will otIer it myself in the language of the Cambodia should be viewed as part of the the senate for a great many years, They so-called Case-Church amendment as 22316 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE June 29, 1973 an amendment on some other piece of in all of Indochina-North Vietnam, are doing. It will demonstrate our ob­ legislation. South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia­ stinacy, not our sagacity. The task of I understand the Eagleton amendment and that that date has been agreed upon government is to govern. The duty of is already attached to the debt ceiling and will be a fact of the law. the legislature is the art of the possible. bill which is now in conference. Let us I compliment the distinguished Sen­ A man as great as Abraham Lincoln leave it there. If the conference removes ator from South Dakota for his perse­ thought that was all right. that measure we can reject the confer­ verance and willingness to stand and I believe this agreement is what is ence report and still have the alternate fight through the years. If any man in possible. So I have no hesitation in route. In that way we have the best of this body has the right to be happy, it is supporting it. My strong feelings about both worlds. We have the Fulbright pro­ the Senator from South Dakota. He has the immorality of this bombing, its il­ posal calling for the end of all American I'eached an hour of victory for him and legality, its unconstitutionality, its in­ military operations in Indochina on or for this country. The victory of peace­ effectiveness, are only exceeded by my before August 15. with the assurance the thc end of American involvement in this conviction that it is incredibly stupid. President will sign it, and we also have tragic war. But we are confronted by a fact of another vehicle on the debt ceiling or Let me say to my distinguished col­ life in this amendment. This President some other' appropriation bill-the leagues that I have been looking over is not resigning; he has not been im­ Church-Case amendment or the Eagle­ the language of amendments we have peached. He is there; he is the Com­ ton amendment, or both-which will call passed here in other days. The first mander in Chief. We are faced with the for immediate termination of American Eagleton amendment was passed on facts of life, the realities of politics; and military operations in Indochina. May 31 and it prOVided for the ending of we are politicians, not philosophers. We Mr. President, that is the course I all American military action in Cambodia are here to help govern a country, not intend to follow. and Laos "On the date of enactment." merely to prove a point, or confront a Mr. HUMPHREY. Mr. President, the That does not mean that just because we President. hour is late, yet, I must speak my mind pass it here it is enacted or if they pass We are not teaching school; we are on this critical situation. I am a member the bill in the other body it is enacted. trying to run a government. The time of the Committee on Foreign Relations As Senators know, when we pass a bill is at hand to face up to the realities and and I voted for the amendment of the here or an amendment that has within it do our best. Senator from Arknasas. I did not do so a provision making its effectiveness, the Thank God we have Senators of great because I thought it the best of. all date of enactment, it may be months be­ moral principle-but what greater mo­ worlds; I did so because I thought it fore it is enacted. It has to go through the rality is there than the achievement of offered a way to end American military long legislative process. So let us pre­ peace. This is what this amendment involvement in all areas of Indochina for tend to be too pure of heart. We know will do. once and for all. I want peace, not an that it takes time-and often a great This is not an easy decision. It is argument with the President. deal of time to enact a law. a difficult and tearful decision. But it Ever since I returned to the Senate the When we said "date of enactment" we has to be made. So I am going to vote cry from this body has been to end the did not mean this afternoon. When we for the amendment with a heavy heart, war. Tonight we can do it, as the distin­ pass something here it may be a week, but also knowing with the Senator from guished Senator from Idaho and others 10 days, 10 months, 2 years before it be­ South Dakota that there is happiness have said, we have time after time voted comes law. But we satisfy ourselves by in this decision. The Senator who ran on or passed in the Senate resolution saying we voted to end the hostilities on for President has achieved, tonight, a after resolution and amendment after the date of enactment and yet tonight, Victory that he wanted to achieve had amendment setting a time certain for some feel we have capitulated to the he been elected President. We have American withdrawal from Vietnam; a President when we have a definitive waited a long time. I compliment those time certain for the ending all hostilities date. who have had the courage and the by American forces. What do we have in the Fulbright astuteness to come to grips with thf\ I recognize the sincerity and legiti­ amendment? Not "date of enactment." problem. macy of the arguments that have been We say, "August 15, 1973," We have a We are doing the right thing. We mud made by those who oppose the amend­ bill the President will sign and it will not fail at this critical hour to seize ment. In terms of debate, this has been end the war on August 15. I wish we the opportunity that is ours-the op­ the Senate's finest hour. The speeches could end the war tonight, but I know portunity to declare for once and for of my colleagues have been both eloquent it will not. I know we cannot und I know all an end to U.S. military activities in and persuasive. Yet, we surely recall that that the role of a compromiser is never all of Indochina. most of our resolutions in the past re­ one that people like or applaud. But, Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, we lated to a date of withdrawal of Ameri­ there are times that in order to serve have reached an impasse. A clear major­ can forces. We never looked upon such the greater purpose you have to com­ ity of both Houses favor an immediate dateline as approval of the war, but promise. When that compromise can ac­ cessation of U.S. military forces' partici­ rather as a way to end it. To be sure, complish your goal-and in this in­ pation in Cambodia but the President in­ the time has come for us to face the stance-the end of American military sists with a veto and we do not have We facts. We know the President of the action in Indochina, then the greater votes in the House to override the veto. United States is a stubborn man. I did purpose has been and is being served. We can stand on the principle for which not vote to put him in the White House. The distinguished Senator from Rhode I believe very strongly or we can make Yet we all know that the President has Island has said this was a night of con­ an important compromise to get the unique powers under the Constitution, trition. It is almost a night of confession. President and the Congress together 011 and one of them is the veto. In order to Oh yes, I know we can be hard nosed. Southeast Asia for the first time. override that veto, we must have at There can be a test of will. We can play The principle, of course, is constitu.. least two-thirds of the Members of buth Russian rOUlette, or whatever one may tional. There is no constitutional author· Houses. This we know is not easy. No call it. But what we need is not a test ity for the President to bomb in Cam­ matter how much we bluster, orate, de­ of will in this body, but a test of judg­ bodia. He has not come to the Congress mand, or pontificate, the fact is we do ment. That is what is needed, a test of and presented a request. He only pursues not have the votes to end this war with­ jUdgment. We have had the test of will. it as an element of Nixon strategy to get out some agreement with the man in We can have another and to no avail. It a better agreement out of the North Viet­ the White House. will make dramatic news. It might take namese. I rather believe in the Nixon The Senator from South Dakota made Watergate off the front page. We can doctrine which the President stated on the telling argument tonight. He said he bring this country to a grinding halt and November 15, 1971 as follows: "Cambo­ is happy tonight because at long last have everything happen that the Senator dia is the Nixon Doctrine in its purest an objective which he has worked for, from Rhode Island said and more. form." This means economic and mili­ and many others ill this body have work­ IfSenators think that is going to make tary aid but no American personnel. I do ed for, has come to fruition, namely, a us popular or the President popular, I not believe a better agreement is worth time and date certain to end American submit they are wrong. It will make us the life of a single American. We have involvement in any type military action both look like we do not know what we done the best we can do. We have "Viet- June 29, 1973 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 22317 namized" Vietnam. President Thieu says by members of the Foreign Relations results it would produce. But we knew that he did not want Amel'lca bombing Committee, and by other Members of the that it was an opportunity-for the first in South Vietnam where the maior and Senate, may indicate a change in heart time in many, many years-for us to more serious violations of the agreement and in policy in the White House which throw down the challenge at the feet of are occurring and there is no treaty for will mean that August 15 will, indeed, the President. And he vetoed it. Cambodia. And Cambodia not being a see the end of our involvement in all We lost the override by 35 votes. But part of the agreement, I do not think this of Indochina. But having been burned he lost the vote; 240 House Members country should engage in one-man mili­ once, I cannot bring myself to feel sure against only 175, voted against the Pres­ tary strategy. I would be willing to sit that there will be no events in Indo­ ident and voted to override the veto. We here until you-know-what freezes over. china that might not lead us again to lacked only 35 votes, which could be I am willing to hold up the Government continuing our involvement. gained by a change :n the votes of only salaries if this is what the President's ac­ It has been the nature of our involve­ 18 House Members. The assumption that tion requires. But I am afraid what we ment in Indochina that when we have those votes would not change as the end would be asking is only 6 weeks of chaos applied pressure to slow down the war or of the fiscal year approached, I think, is whereby we can agree today and not only to stop It at one point, it has erupted a premature assumption. So I guess my attain the principle but to me secure the in another. So. however remote the pos­ reasons can be summed up in this way: most important attainment and that is sibility of a continuation of the war First, I could not bring myself to cast to get the country, the Congress and the might be, I could not bring myself to a vote legitimatizing our involvement in President all working together. I am help to open up even a small door to the Cambodia. hard-headed and I do not like to yield continuation by giving my approval to Second, I do not think we are buying but I think this is in the best interests of what is going on in Cambodia. anything with this so-called compromise the country so I will vote for the amend­ And it would be giving waY, for the by agreeing to the August 15 date for ment. first time, to what is going on now in ending the war in Cambodia, and in the Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, like other Cambodia, by permitting the war there rest of Indochina. Senators who have spoken this after­ to continue with our express authoriza­ And third, I believe we should stand noon, I have already had the opportunity tion. For the Fulbright-Allen amend­ firm in our assertion of the constitu­ to vote on this proposal-the amendment ment would give legitimacy to whatever tional responsibility of Congress. offered by Senators FULBRIGHT and bombing will take place between now and It has been suggested this afternoon AIKEN-in the Committee on Foreign Re­ August 15, however agonizing or de­ that we can vote for the Fulbright lations. I voted against it. structive it may be, and regardless of amendment, and then try to attach the I think the nature of this debate is whether it may trigg-er some unpredict­ Eagleton proposal to some other meas­ such that we ought not to presume to able reaction from other powers. ure. But the vote on this amendment to­ lecture one another. The nature of the This amendment gives our blessing to night is the end of the fight. If this pro­ decision on this vote is such that the this war for the first time. But I could posal passes, there is no chance for the best I can hope to do-that each of us not give mine. Eagleton amendment to get serious con­ can hope to do-is to make a judgment Second, we are told we are buying, by sideration on the floor of the House or in conscience. And it is obvious from the condoning the war for 45 more days, a the Senate. debate that has taken place already that commitment to end military involvement Mr. President, I wish to conclude by I will be in disagreement with some of in the rest of Indochina. But what com­ referring to the proposition laid down my distinguished colleagues on this vote. bat activities by American forces are by the distinguished Senator from Colo­ I take the fioor primarily to explain going on in North Vietnam and South rado (Mr. HASKELL) . why I voted "No" this afternoon. Vietnam at the present time? I am not We have been involved all year long First, I suppos'e that what COnCe111S aware of any. We have been told that was in conflicts with the President on con­ me most of all takes me back 9 years. all ended in January. Since the cease­ stitutional issues. I have been struggling For almost all of that time, I have had fire, the violence has taken place at the with some of them in particular-execu­ deep regrets about a vote I cast in the hands of the North Vietnamese, the tive privilege, impoundment-trying to Senate, a vote that helped to launch a South Vietnamese, and the Vietcong. But find a handle that would force the con­ war. I have had no real chance to express American military forces are not en­ flict to a point of decision. And we have these regrets. What we then set in mo­ gaged at the present time in military ac­ not really found the proper handle for tion-in passing the Tonkin Gulf res­ tivities in South Vietnam or North Viet­ resolving those conflicts. olution-became a calamity for our nam. Now he has an appropriate handle Nation, which we must all regret. So what would we buy? We would for l~solving a critical constitutional But what is now going on in Cam­ buy something we were sold in January. conflict. If we agree to this false com­ bodia has never had any basis in the Unless the President has something in promise, if I read the mind of the man action taken by this body or by Con­ mind for North and South Vietnam in the White House correctly, he will in­ gress. I have never cast a vote that could which he has not disclosed, we are not terpret our action backing down. He be interpreted as a vote for a war in buying anything more than we thought will conclude that he won. Cambodia. All the justifications that we were buying earlier this year. All one had to do was to see the JOY have been made by Presidents previouslY My third consideration is a constitu­ on the faces of some of the President·s for the war in Vietnam have been wiped tional one. We have a system of govern­ supporters this afternoon, to know that off the books by the events and agree­ ment with three coequal departments. they thought they had won something ments that have been referred to as a Whenever there is tension and conflict for the President. cease-fire, reached last January. That between two branches over their con­ I think they have. But not with my ended all justification for any hostilities, stitutional powers, the foundations of help. even by the terms of this administra­ government are naturally going to shake. Mr. MATHIAS. Mr. President. the di­ tion's policy, as we have been reminded When the President, and we in Con­ lemma that the Senate face§ tonight has by some of the quotations read into the gress, are at odds about our respective been described in various ways by dif­ record by the distinguished Senator from constitutional roles. sho;lid we timidly ferent Senators. In a sense. it is a dilem­ Indiana (Mr. HARTKE) . ask him to return what is ours and ex­ ma which is forced upon us, because So I was faced with a vote this after­ pect him to give it back without a fight? most of us have said that we want to noon, in the Foreign Relations Com­ It is in the nature of such tensions see a stop in the bombing. Some have mittee. on a so-called compromise agree­ and such confiicts that we have to stand said we should stop the bombing now; ment. If I voted "aye," for the first time up and he has to stand up, until some­ others have said we are willing to agree I would be giving my approval to what is how something gives. to tomorrow. the next day, or some other going on in Cambodia, with consequences I agree with my distinguished friend, day or 6 weeks thereafter. as unpredictable, in a sense, as the con­ the Senator froD:! Missouri, that we have Mr. President, I think it is worth ex­ sequences which flowed from that vote not tried hard enough. ploring for a moment or two why we 9 years ago. When we first voted for his amend­ are in this dilemma. It certainly is not It may well be that all of the assur­ ment to cease hostilities in Cambodia the case that we do not have the power ances that have been given and received immediately, we had no assurance what to say. "stop the bombing tonight," 22318 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 The situation really seems to be that promise. But, Mr. President, what we do know they will. Frankly,I am at a loss we do not really think we have the power tcmight, the moral issue of the war will to understand why we do not take the to stop the bombing tonight. Perhaps remain. '!be constitutional issue will re­ compromise, and then proceed immedi­ more important, we do not feel that we main. And I submit that nei'.~__r of tJose ately to propose anything with respect have the power to say, "Stop the bomb­ concerns should be compromised in ex­ to CamlxJdia considered proper. ing tonight." pediency; therefore, I intend to vote I have a problem, because ofthe posi­ We do not seem to be willing to bear against the substitute. tion of my distinguished colleague, a the burden of the responsibility for ex­ Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, will great Senator who has led the fight to ercising the power that is entrusted to the able Senator yield? stop bombing in Cambodia. I would sup­ us. Mr. MATHIAS. I am happy to yield port any additional amendment to carry The congressional power of war and to the distinguished Senator from Mis­ out his thinking, but cannot see why, if peace that has been entrusted to us by souri. we can make this progress up to the the Constitution, I think, is weakened by Mr. SYMINGTON. Is it not true, as point of August 15. at which time we stop this failure on our part to act now to stop has been represented on the Senate floor all military action, not only in Cambodia, the IxJmbing. It is weakened by our fail­ tonight, that after we obtain the date of but also in Laos and North Vietnam and ure to recognize its strength, because that August 15 as the stopping of all Indo­ South Vietnam, we do not take this now constitutional power is only as strong as china military action from air, sea, or and then immediately to any other our will to employ it. I think that we land, on the next bill that comes before amendment any Senator would like to ought to examine for a minute the results the Senate, an amendment can be in­ make. Let us recognize that probably we of a delay to the end of the bombing that troduced to stop the Cambodian bombing can pass what those people who think it is suggested by the substitute proposal. immediately? important to stop this war at a date cer­ Mr. President, to ask for, to authorize, Mr. MATHIAS. Anything can be in­ tain sincerely desire. If we do not pass or to direct the endangel;ng of human troduced as long as the Clerk's desk is it, because of the necessity to have both life in a noble cause is the destiny of even open. Houses approve any additional amend­ the most enlightened leaders in moments Mr. SYMINGTON. Will the able Sen­ ment, we may have reached out so far of national danger or national tragedy. ator yield for another question? to grab the last cherry that we find we But can this war in Cambodia be de­ Mr. MATI-liAS. Certainly. have broken the branch. scribed as a noble cause? It is not even Mr. SYMINGTON. Does the Senator I thank my able friend from Maryland national policy in either the T}nited believe that if we reject this amendment, for yielding to me. States or in Cambodia. one approved by the chairman of the Mr. MATHIAS. Mr. President, I can The bombing has been condemned by Foreign Relations Committee, the Sena­ only sa~r in response that there are many a majOl;ty of the U.S. Senate. And yet. tor who has led this fight for many years times when you would lige to have the what we contemplate tonight is more just about before anybody else in this best of both worlds. AJ3 the Senator en­ death and more destruction until the body, who stands high on this issue, and visions the possibilities, I think that is 15th of August. Each day, that the bomb­ whom I opposed when he first opposed what he is speaking for. ing drags on, we are exposed to a danger this war, does the Senator believe that lam fearful that if we go down this to which we need not be exposed. any other amendment will pass without road, as a practical political reality, the Who in this Senate can tell what acci­ a veto by the President of the United alternative that he speaks for will not be dent of war might mire us down again in States? available. Since the Senator had the Indochina? Mr. MATHIAS. I have heard the Sen­ beneflt of a Maryland upbringing, he has Certainly, when I voted for the Gulf of ator from Missouri speak very forcefully often heard the phrase, "You can't have Tonkin joint resolution as a Member of in the past that there is one way to your cake and eat it, too." the other body, I had no concept of the bring this question of the war to deci­ I think if we compromise tonight, we consequences that might flow from that sion-away that does not involve the will have had the cake, and will look a action. And I do not forget that we went concurrence of the Executive or even the long time before we see it replaced on into Cambodia for just 2 months, more concurrence of the other body in Con­ the plate. than 3 years ago, in order to shorten the gress: That way is simply not to pass a Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, will war in Vietnam. money bill in the Senate. the Senator yield? I submit, Mr. President. that that We are at that point tonight. We are Mr. MATHIAS. I yield to the distin­ chronology speaks for itself. And whether at the point where we can say, "We will guished Senator from South Carolina. we vote that we want to see the bombing only pass a money bill which contem­ Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, I am stopped now or in August, the probable plates a limitation of the exposure to a little late for the debate, and I have turn of events in Cambodia is going to be the risks that are involved in a continu­ not heard all the speeches, but let me the restoration of Prince Sihanouk and ing active war in Cambodia by immedi­ talk in favor of this particular amend­ the ouster of the government we helped ate cessation of bombing." ment with somewhat mixed feelings that to install to succeed him. I think that is the decision we are others have of regret and anxiety. or When we talk about the practicality making, whether we are going to under­ anxiousness, you might say, to jump at of this compromise, I have to ask, is that take the course of action which is avail­ this opportunity, because in essence result worth the continued exposure to able to us in our OW11 discretion. that is what it appears to me to be. risk that it involves? I have the highest respect for the judg­ To begin with, I helped the distin­ The course of compromise is advocated ment of the distinguished chairman of guished Senator from Missouri write the on the ground of practicality, and very the Committee on Foreign Relations as Eagleton amendment. I sat right with powerful arguments have been made by well as for the Senator from Missouri. him in the Appropriations Committee, many respected and distingUished Mem­ I am not trying to be contentious, and and the Senator will remember we re­ bers of the Senate. I know that the Sen­ I am not trying to give him anything worded it and made sure we could tie ate wants to prevail by affirmative legis­ other than my own view, and the grounds it down in every way, to make it certain lation in some way, and that there is a upon which I intend to act. that we meant business. feeling that half a loaf may be better Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, if I sat on the conference committee. and than none. the Senator will yield further, there is we all sat there, with the House of Rep­ Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, may no one in this bodY for whom I have resentatives, steadfast for the Eagleton we have order? greater respect than the distinguished amendment. And on yesterday, when the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ Senator from Maryland. What I cannot distinguished chairman of the Ways and ate will be in order. understand, however, is, if we obtain this Means Committee of the House of Rep­ Mr. MATHIAS. But, MI'. President, August 15 date tonight, what is to pre­ resentatives, GEORGE MAHON, came over when that half a loaf is bought at the vent anyone from working for an earlier to this side talking, we told him that we price of further denigration an( weaken­ date to end this Cambodian tragic bomb­ were not going to give. In fact, I kidding­ ing of the terms of the ConsFtution itself, ing, or any other military activ:ty in ly referred to the majority leader, and then I believe the price for half a loaf is Indochina, on the next bill that comes said, ';Let us get Jim Allen and put that too high. before the Senate? There was some ques­ Eagleton amendment on the Senate W'e can compromise and we remind tion whether the administration would menu, on everything we pos;;ibly can onrselves that pOlitics is the urt of com- take this proposed amendment. Now we get it on, to make clear that we do not June 29, 1973 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 22319 want to slip sidewise into another Gulf the May 17, 1954, decision let me say to ciple. If we really believe in principle, let of Tonkin." the distinguished Senator from Alabama. us join in doing something. But no one I had no idea at that particular time (Mr. ALLEN). We lost. There was not seems to approach it that way. All of a that the President of the United States going to be any more second-clasG cit­ SUdden, we start talking of the Constitu­ would agree to end the war at any time. izenship. The Supreme Court had found tion. It has been unconstitutional from I could not agree with his strategy. I the separate but equal system uncon­ the word "go." But, all of a SUdden, we have been to Cambodia with a group of .stitutional. So we got together, a few of have got a constitutional principle. I other SenatOl;s in January. I know just the Govelnors down in the South, and think that this is a glorious opportunity as surely as anyone that the bombing we approached the NAACP. We said, for hawk and dove, for Republican and there is not only unconstitutional, it is "How are we going to implement this Democrat, for House Member and Sen­ unwise and it is not working. We have thing?" They said, "How do you sug­ ate Member, for the President, the CCl,­ been bombing for 115 days in a row and gest?" So the suggestion was made at gress, and the people to get together, to we have not advanced 1 kilometer. We that particular time that what we should begin working together. continue to lose. Yet when we come back do is to integrate the first grade the Lord knows, I say to Senator FUL­ and we try to exercise what power we first year, the second year the first and BRIGHT, you used to irk me. When I came have, we have got to realize that we are the second grade, and the third year here as a freshman Senator, the Senator 1 in a group of 100 or, if we want to the first, second, and the third grades, from Arkansas would stand in the well look at the Congress concurrently, then and in 12 years, we would have voluntary and declare that the war was immoral, we are 1 in a group of 535. We do not integration, all implemented with delib­ illegal, and unnecessary. I would have have the votes on the House side. That is erate speed, in an orderly and acceptable to write some mother or widow about our dilemma. fashion. five or six times a week in South Carolina When I come in here tonight and hear Well, the NAACP got principled. They that the war was moral, was legal, and talk about who is· cornered, who is right, said, "You cannot give us our constitu­ was necessary. It became tougher and who is going to stop· the Government, tional rights in installments. This is a tougher to write those letters. who will be responisble, how we can do matter of principle. The Supreme Court Let me tell you, Mr. President, here it, now is the time to stand up, and when has ruled. You have got to do it imme­ and now, that this is a happy evening the distinguished Senator from Maine diately." So they had their way. So we in for me, because we can get the House says that he has had to live with this America burned everyone. We assassi­ together, the Senate together, and the mistake, that he is living with this regret nated. We pitch-forked them. We buried President together, and face the issue in his heart and he does not want to them in the soil bank in Mississippi. We that the President has cloaked himself make the same mistake again, I do not gigged them with electric sticks. We tried in with that Commander in Chief wrap­ think that is what the issue is. to force integration. Now after 20 years around which he has put on himself. I think that what is really the issue is, we have still less integration under that But we will divest him of that Command­ this is the·first time, this year, 1973, and principle. er in Chief role and get him in on our leg­ almost the first time since President So the problem is, how do we best islative and governmental level, as the Nixon came to office in 1969, that we advance the principle we believe in? If Senator from Minnesota (Mr. HUM­ have ever had the chance for Congress we take the Senator from Missouri's and PHREY) says, and begin to govern. I have and the President to get together. I think the Senator from Maine's way, we get no doubt that we can then receive the we shall not let that opportunity pass. nowhere. We rest on that principle. Gov­ favor of the public mind as to what our This country is in one heck of a fix. ernment is the art of the possible. It Is domestic policy really is. Only when this Our ox is in the ditch. The Senator from the art of compromise. They say, "We has been ascertained and we can get Missouri was about to speak, which he advance the principles that we believe him from behind that Commander in can do most eloquently and most in." No one doubts, for example, the sin­ Chief cloak and get out of the Southeast expertly,.as to the dilemma the economy cerity of the distinguished Senator from Asia war. In the 6 weeks period, we can is in. Maine, but he is not going to be sl1ook­ get rid of it. This is a magnificent op­ Well, I know that my. tomato farmers ered. And, do not worry about President portunity. It is absolutely necessary that are having to plow under part of their Nixon getting us into another war. He we do it, because this country really crop, and not pick the other part, so is not going to do anything unpopular. needs it, and we should be jumping at it. they are losing millions of dollars. The That fellow is a pretty good political I have got to make a July 4 address same is true with our poultry farmers. animal and he has been trying to make next week, and I want to be able to tell The President, with respect to the sure that the South Vietnamese can last them that we finally got the President, Watergate affair, there is no confidence out the remainder of his 4-year term. the Sertate, and the House of Represent­ there. There is no confidence, really, in That is what is on his mind [laughter]. atives together, something we have not Congress, or in Government. The market That is why he has been bombing, playing done for 10 years. I would like to tell is down. for time. He will bomb as long as he can; them that we have finally got the Presi­ I walked in today at the Policy Com­ but now he quit, with this particular dent, the Senate, and the House to come mittee and was told that, yes, the Pres­ language, and he has said that he agrees together on the main issue, to confront ident of the United States would agree with us. the war, and to end it. Then we can to a cutoff date to end the war. I said, Over on the House side, with MAHON, really have one of our freedom celebra­ "You have got to te kidding." They said, he helped draw up this language. We will tions. no, that the minority leader, Mr. SCOTT, have leadership with the opposition over Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, the had talked with the President and he had there, with our crowd that wants to end able Senator from South Carolina (Mr. agreed to end it, not just in Cambodia­ this unconstitutional process, so that if HOLLINGS) has just eloquently expressed the Eagleton amendment-but in all of we put this in, we can get two-thirds of my thinking. I commend him for his Southeast Asia. the House, perhaps. We have got the talk. Heavens above, if we could go off here President's word. If he breeches his word What I have to say is brief. Now we for the Fourth of July recess and all join then we can get two-thirds. ' have a chance, even if a few days later on that one thing-yes, as a matter of We have got the 6 weeks. This way we than many of us hoped for, to end this princlple--we would have lost 6 weeks, can save billions of dollars. When we vote war, not only in Cambodia but in Laos but I do not see anyone gaining that 6 for this, brother, we have saved $2 bil­ and in South Vietnam; therefore, also weeks, I say to the Senator from Rhode lion to $4 billion. Wait till the appropria­ in North Vietnam. Island (Mr. PASTORE), because the other tion bill comes back and we will clean If there are some who might be char­ alternative is to stop the Govelnment out Thailand where that headquarters acterized as superhawks and they join entirely through the middle of July, is, I say to the distinguished acting with Members of this body who do not come back, and all the headlines will say, chairman of the Armed Services and we think this is a proper solution because it "The President will not give"-"Congress can save some dollars. This is the most is not soon enough, those who want an will not give." saving economical measw'e I have seen immediate decision now, If they defeat Mr. President, I have been through here on the tIoor of the U.S. Senate this this amendment, passed in the Foreign one of these "principle" fights before. I year to help balance the bUdget. Relations Committee with only two nega­ never forgot the one immediately after Everyone is running around with plin- tive votes, and they later introduced, 22320 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 and then vetoed, and later the veto Is The issue is whether the war will be agreed for the lead they are taking in sustained in the House, we are back brought to a close on August 15 or respect to this amendment. \',-here we started. whetl:er it will continue. There is no Mr. DOLE. Mr. President, I shall take V/hat I would present to my colleagues assurance whatever that by voting only a few minutes. is the fact that, after this amendment is against this amendment. the position of The distinguished Senator from Mis­ adopted, and in the interest of the young ending the war now will \'lin out. The souri has raised a point about which I people of this country who actually do amendment is not a grant of authority. have given some thought. I was compli­ the fighting, I pray to the Almighty to­ It is a limitation on authority, and it will menting the distinguished 'senior Sena­ night that. if adopted, and my distin­ bring this war to a very definite halt. tor from Missouri. I do not want to be gubhed colleague submits an amendment Certainly, I believe that is what 90 per­ classed as a super hawk. I have some to stop the bombing of Cambodia imme­ cent of the Members of the Senate want difficulty with the amendment, but I diately, I will be glad to vote for it. to see. We will have something definite understand the importance of it, and I But when we have tonight a chance. in this amendment. As the distinguished rL~e simply to say a kind word for Presi­ atter week after week, month after Senator from South Carolina (Mr. HOL­ dent Nixon. I hope that is not ruled out month. and year after year, to stop this LINGS) said, we will have an agreement of order. war, not obly the air war against Cam­ with the House and we will have an But it seems to me that over the past bodia, but the land, sea, and air war agreement with tl1e President on this several years in this body, and the other against all Indochina, in the interest 01 vital issue. body, and across the country, we have those who actually fight it, and in the We say that we want the President to been engaged almost constantly in a interest of the economy of the United cooperate with Congress. It seems to me debate about how to achieve peace in states, as was so well presented by the that this is mighty fine cooperation, and Southeast Asia. I believe that through Senator from South Carolina-we should I think that this is a sure way to see a the efforts, yes, of Congress and the take this first practical and definite step, definite end brought to the war. It will President, President Nixon, that this has the first ever presented to the Senate be something that has a definite date for the most part been achieved. We with an agreement from the adminis­ set for the end of hostilities, something have had our differences in Congress, tration to end this war. we can depend upon, something that is and we have had our differences in the Mr. DOLE and Mr. ALLEN addressed sure. Senate, but all during that time Ameri­ the Chair. What is the other course? Vote against cans were coming home, the casualty The PRESIDING OPFICER. T1'1e Sen­ the amendment; the bombing continues; rates were going down, and it cul­ ator from Alabama is recognized. the Government is well nigh brought to minated in total withdrawal of Ameri­ Mr. ALLEN. Mr. President, when I a halt. If this were a bill dealing solely can forces in Southeast Asia, the return came to the U.S. Senate, some 543,000 with this one issue, that migh~ be one of American prisoners of war, and for all American troops were in Vietnam. I sup­ thing. Those who want to stand out for practical purposes, except for that last ported, on every occasion, the President ending the war on the passage and ap­ link, the forging of peace in Southeast of the United States as he sought to bring proval of the bill, rather than a definite Asia. this war to a close. I never once voted date, could go that route. But this is a Certainly, I believe that F:esident for any measure to end the war on a cer­ rider than has been attached to a con­ Nixon deserves great credit, and I know tain date. I felt that as long as we had tinuing appropriation resolution, provid­ that today in this forum or perhaps any forces in South Vietnam, as long as we ing for carrying on the Government of forum, it might be popular to give the had prisoners of war in the hands of the United States. President a gig. It seems to me that the North Vietnamese, no time limit The suggestion has been made to get without the leadership of President should be set on ending the war. this date and try for an earlier date on Nixon we would not be talking about any The President did an outstanding job other legislation. I do not go along with date in Southeast Asia and we would not in bringing the war in Vietnam to a close that approach. This would seem to me be talking about any date in Cam­ and I am proud that I followed his lead­ to be something in the nature of a cove­ bodia. As I said 2 weeks ago, I still have ership. But I felt that after all our troops nant with the President and the Con­ my concern about America's missing in Iud been withdrawn, after all our pris­ gress-the President allowing Congress action. I have great respect for the dis­ oners of war had been returned, that was to participate in the decisionmaking, to tinguished senior Senator from Missouri the time to end our participation in the have a part in the exercise of the Pres­ and perhaps by accepting this compro­ war in Southeast Asia. It was not the idential power of waging war and bring­ mise there will be some verification and time to start bombing in Cambodia. So ing it to a close. accounting for A'merica's missing in ac­ I have felt that the bombing in Cam­ While I favor the amendment, I would tion, whether they are in Cambodia, bodia should stop, and I feel that it very not be in favor of tacking a later amend­ Laos. North Vietnam, or South Vietnam. definitely should be brought to an end. ment on another' piece of legislation It seems to me or at least it seemed But I certainly endorse the position seeking to halt the President's power to to me that if we took that flexibility taken tonight by the distinguished Sen­ continue with the military activities in from the Commander in Chief, whoever ator from Arkansas (Mr. PULBRIGHT), Southeast Asia at an earlier date. That it might be, we were, in effect, saying to the distinguished Senator from Idaho would be a breach of trust on our part. the enemy that there is no need to ac­ (Mr. CHURCH), the distinguished Sena­ This is the first time that we will have count for those missing in action. But tor from South Dakota (Mr. MCGOVERN), had the opportunity, and it seems almost it appears again, in a spirit of compro­ the distinguished Senator from Missouri certain we will accept this amendment, mise, that in thepartnership, if you will, (Mr. SYMINGTON), and the distinguished to very definitely bring this war to a Mr. President, on behalf of the Presi­ Senator from Minnesota (Mr. HUM­ close, something for which all citizens dent of the United States and the Con­ PHREY) on this amendment. I have not throughout the country will applaud gress of the United States, the President always agreed with these colleagues in Congress and the President. I believe we said, in effect, that in an effort to satisfy matters coming before the Senate, cer­ have a wonderful opportunity here to Congress, in an effort to demonstrate tainly not as regards the war in South cooperate with the President to see that the partnership we need in America at Vietnam. But the issue we are confronted this war is brought to a close. this time, he agrees and consents to the I commend Members of the Senate compromise hammered out by the dis­ with tonight is not whether the bombing who have taken the lead in the effort to tinguished Senator from Arkansas (Mr. or whether our participation in the bring the war in Vietnam to a close, and FULBRIGHT) and· the distu1guished Southeast Asian war "ill be brought to yet have had the statesmanship, the minority leader, and others. a close tonight or on August 15. If that qualities of statesmanship that would I guess it was 3 years ago in June the were the issue, it would be quite simple. cause them to stand on this floor and last time I agreed with the Senator frol11 Almost everyone in the Senate would be speak in behalf of this agreeing on this Arkansas. I may have since on other in favor of seeing the bombing and our date, some 6 weeks distant, when they matters, .but with respect to this I recall participation in the war in Southeast would much prefer to see an immediate it was the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. The Asia brought to a close tonight. But that end brought to the war. I commend these Senator from Kansas was new in this is not the issue. gentlemen with whom I have not always body and he did not realize that he June 29, 1973 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 22321 'Should not be offering amendments that Mr. FULBHIOHT. Mr. President, will We have a compromise here. This is someone else wanted to offer. the Senator yield for a question? the first time since I came to the Senate I recall that I sprang to my feet, in a Mr. DOLE. I yield. that we have brought together opposing moment of--terror--and offered to re­ Mr. FULBHIOHT. Mr. President, I factions and have a basis for a .spirit of peal the Gulf of Tonkin .Resolution.Lo would like to say that I appreciate what 0Ooperation with the President. and behold, it was repealed by a vote of the Senator said. I think he kindly re­ I happen to agree with what the Scn­ 50 or 60 to 11. I remember the Senator caned the incident he did about the Gulf ator from Kansas (Mr. DOLE) has said. from Arkansas voted "no." of 'Tonkin Resolution. I might say it was I think the President is due a great deal He said that stealing a man's--cnotthat, a purely procedural matter that caused of credit for having brought about the word-but taking a man's amendment is that. \\ithdrawal of our troops. We have rela­ like taking a man's cow. I know it was But I remember, and this is interest­ tive peace in South Vietnam, and I think the month of June, becausethat was na­ ing, that it was just 9 years ago that the we should withdraw completely from tionaldairymonth. As I recall my re­ Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was first Cambodia. I support the idea that we SpOIlfiC -to the Senator from Arkansas it passed. It has taken 9 years, and in a ought to get out of Cambodia. But the was that I would never take a man's sense, joining in the idpa that this is not important thing is that we have had a cowduringnationa.l daiI:Y month, but in just the .President's fault, because I felt long delay here. The majority leader and any event-- very strongly, just as strongly about his the majority assistant leader have been Mr. MATHIAS. Mr. President, will the predecessor; who was a Democrat, as very patient with us as we have tried to Senator yield? this one-it was not partisan. solve this appropriations problem so that Mr. DOLE. I yield. Mr_ DOLE. 'I was not here earlier when we could effect a compromise. I hope to Mr..MATHIAS. Mr. President, I wish theSenator wasspeaking. support it, and I hope the rest of the to compliment the Senator on his ex­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. I wanted to say that Senate will do so. We have a historic cellent memory. I also have a veI:Y clear for the REOORD.. I was here and did speak opportunity tOgo down in history in a recollection of that episode. I would say for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution pas­ situation where the President has sent that he recounted 'it with absolute sage, as well as its repeal, but I will not word that he would concur in this veracity. go into that. I ,appreciate very much the amendment, and we now have-all of Mr. DOLE. Well, I ,have been visiting Senator from Kansas recalling some of us who have been on opposing sides-an with John Dean. [Laughter.! that history. opportunity for unanimous support for In any event, as I recall the facts, it I certainlY join the Senator. I am the amendment. was a very great evening. because then happy that we are on this issue wgether I am very much disturbed that there I think we really demonstrated we ,did with the exooutive branch and with the are Senators who are unwilling now to not need 'the Gulf of TOlikin resolution. other body. vote for an amendment that sets a 45­ We were not about to esca1ate more in Mr. DOLE. I did not mean to suggest day period, when the amendment that Southeast Asia. We were on the way that the distinguished Senator had been the Senator from Kentucky (Mr. COOK) home. critical. and I had an amendment that provided ~ have great respect for the Senator Mr. FULBRIGHT. I know he did not. I a 9-month time period and missed from Arkansas, so when he offered to merely wanted to say tIllS for the RECORD. passage by this body by only one vote. It nweal the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, I Mr. MATHIAS. Mr. President, I ask seems to me that the crisis is just as bad voted for his proposal to show what ,kind unanimous consent that Mr. William now, and the people of the conntry would of fellow I .am-that was later. Miller of my staff be granted the privilege like us to bind up our wOlUlds. This is Mr. STEVENS. At that point in time. of the floor. an effective way to solve the problem. [Laughter.J The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without Mr. President, I rose primarily to make Mr. DOLE. I cannot recall. .1 cannot objection, it is so ordered. a parliamentary inquiry, to make certain tell one hotel-I mean -one amendment Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President, I shall that my understanding is correct. I wish from another. TLaughter.] be brief. I should like to get w a vot.e on to propound a parliamentary inquiry. In any event. tonight we.are on the this matter. I am sure that every senator The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ threshold of something and ~ would would. guess a compromise. certainly. 1 think ator will state it. When I started this proposal this Mr. STEVENS. Do I correctly under­ there will be some immediate credit to morning, with the question concerning pass out if the llmendment is adopted. stand that the amendment before the section lOS and how we could get to it­ Senate now is a substitute for section But I would nnly caution,and I intend that is, the Eagleton amendment-I did to vote for the compromise to demon­ 109 as it appears, the so-called Case­ so as a sponsor of 'the Eagleton amend­ Chutch amendment from the com­ strate my 'gOod intention and good faith ment '&ld as one who has voted for it and that I 'Concur in many .of the argu­ mittee? before, and will probably vote for it The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ mentsmade, I thinkwe must acceptsome again. responsibility when we vote for the com­ ator is correct. I just want to remind Senators that Mr. STEVENS. Do I also understand Pl'omlse. If the time comes next week, we are talking about a continuing res­ next Ill(JDth, 6 montbsfrom now, when correctly that following the vote on this olution, and the reason we have been amendment. the Senate will proceed to somet..hinghappens in Boutheast Asia, able now to work out a compromise on Whichmight havebeen prevented by giv­ consider the last committee amendment; this section is that everyone realizes that in order to effect this compromise, ingthe Commander in Chief some flex­ that there would be a complete hiatus in ilnlity, we must accept some responsihil­ it ,vill be necessal-Y to consider the meas­ government if the Eagleton amendment ure "Ive had before us earlier this morn­ ityand I am ·certain we will not all do stayed in the bill and the President that. W~win find some wa,y to fault the ing to strike section 108? Section lOS will President,to fault the Commander 1n vetoed it. I see no reason to have that remain in the bill if my amendment is Chief. clash between an immovable oObject and irresistable force when the people who not .considered so as to take it out? I think since there has been this dem­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. Unless onstration 'of cooperation and since I are going to get hurt are those who Vi­ tally depend onitin every segment of the section 108 is stricken by the amend­ support the President of the United Government. ment, it would remain in the bill. States in this ~lIort and because I believe Mr. STEVENS. I wanted to make cer­ in his pursuit of peace, and I believe it I expressed those views in the Ap­ and tain that this amendment to section 108 wasachieVed, and I believe it very strong­ propriations Committee, I expressed them here this morning. I congratulate will not be in order after the vote on the 1y, I am pleased to join with my distin­ last committee amendment. guished colleagues, the Senator from theSenator fmm Arkansas and the other Arkansas .and the diStinguished senior Senators who worked out this compro­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. That is senator from V~rmontin SUPPOrting an mise. correct. The last committee amendment amendment that does for the .first time Iremember.oncebei,ore, when the Sen­ deals onlY "ith section 109. bring together tbeexecutive branch and ator 1romKentuekytMr. CoOK} and I Mr. ABOUREZK. Mr. President. the the legislative branch· in an 'ClQlJ'eSSion tried to work out a compromise-the 50­ Senatnr from Alaska mentioned that the and in a demonstration that we want it called Cooll::-stevens amendment-we President "sent word." I am sorry I toenn. were unable t.o do so. missed that part of the debate. Did the 22322 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 President say he would voluntarily stop tainly this body, as well as the House of brought to the Senate 11001' in· the past the bombing on August 15? Representatives, could vote to override 7 years. I have voted for every end-the.;. Mr. STEVENS. As the Senator from the veto if the measure were to be vetoed. bombing resolution that has been Alaska understands-and he has been Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President, we de­ brought to the 11001' in the past 7 years. here all day-the President has sent layed here today to find out what the And, Mr. President, 7 years and 53 days \\'ord that he \\iould sign this measw'e other body would do with a similar ago, on May 6, 1965, I voted against Pres­ if the amendment were modified as proposition. We were told that the other ident Johnson's request for an appropria­ presented by the Committee on Foreign body had made its decision to accept this tion to commence a ground war in Relations. I would hope to be corrected kind of compromise. On that basis I am Vietnam. if I am mistaken. but that is my under­ prepared to assist those who want t

I am not going to quibble about it. I say we must oppose this war, now as answer to that question. I think it is a Anything to end this horror, I am for. I never before. We have a very clear op­ good question. am voting lor this amendment. I am portunity, We, the Senate of the United Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. President, if the voting as I llave tor 7 years, against all States, can for the first time 'in two dec­ Senator from :South Dakota will yield to a.ppropriations to continue this war and ades vote on the question of war. me, let me .say that it is my understand­ all resolutions to end it. We can vote to s'OOp it on June 30. Or ing, and I report this on the basis of Furthermore I intend to vote for the we -can Yote to continue it to August 15. conversations with the minority leader, Eagletonamendment. We are faced with a clear choice. We that the minority leader of the House, Mr. President, I conclude by remark­ cannot move to wash our hands, this Representative FORD talked with the ing on what a terrible, tragic irony we time. President and reported to the House {)f havescen.span througb this whole trag­ W.e vote to nmke war, or we vote to Representatives earlier in the day, when edy.I remember the arguments '1 years mandate :the peace. the House was .considering this same ago when we were told that if we do not TIns is a nation judged internally and provision, that he hadtalked to the Pres­ stoP the Communists in Vietnam, we externallY by moral imperatives. We ident and the President woo'ld sign a are going to have China in Hawaii and stand before the whole world today tmu­ resoiution "With this provision in it. Sen­ next we -will have them in san _Fran­ bled by moral turpitude. Every man in ator .sOOTT :subsequently talked with Mr. cisco. this Chamber who has raised his voice LaUrO. at Sam Clemente, and confirmed Well, Mr. President, they were right. agalinst this war, can vote that choice that understanding. The Chinese arrived 35 days ago, and tonight. He cannot place responsibility SEVERAL SENATORS. Vote'! Vote1 VQ'te1 Brezbnev last week. So, we fought for 10 anywhere else, tonight. Mr. HARTKE. Mao. President, do 1 years to keep them from coming here. Campaigns are now over. Tonight is have the 'floor? -We iloot .50.000 lires, 300,000 wounded, the time, we standonthe record. History The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ spent $120 .billionand suffered the dis­ will recaJl how we roted; not what we ator from Indiana has the &or. illusionment and 'Vision of this Nation said on the campaign trail. Mil". HARTKE. Does that saUsfy the along with the loss -of o:>nfidence and I say. the machinery of this GoV€rn• Senator from South Dakota'? disillusionment of a whole generation of ment ought ,to be brought to a ,grinding Mr. ABOUREZK. 1 should like to in­ youth and .older Jolks, too. .1 hope this ha1t before we VQte for war in Southeast quire of the minority leader whether he will be a lesson to Congress and that we Asia. We have a clear choice: A bombing did or did not talk witJl thePres:ident.We will not again delegate by default or halt by..'June 30; or by August 15. seem to be getting third-hand hearsay ot.herwisepowers that belong bythe Con­ Therefore, I say, let us give to the here. stitution to this body. And it does not world an example of the American sys­ Mr. STEVENSON. Mr. President, 1 only apply, as we are all well aware, to tem of government. We claim a balance think it should be made clear for the making war without our consent. It ap­ o:l'powers. let us demonstrate It, for once! RECORD that the Senate, in adopting this plies to the impoundment of funds that We hear of the will of the people. For amendment at this hour tonight, has are .appropriated after due deliberation God's sake, let us exercise and stand fast done so on the assumption that the for social programs; it applies to execu­ on the will of the Congress. President of the United States approves tivepnvilege; it applies to our default in [ think it is a mark of fate, traced over and will sign the bill. There has been permitting the executive branch toexer­ the last two decades, that the two great no opposition expressed to the amend­ cise police powers of surveillance, wire­ issuesofour time are joinedIn t,.\"o places menttonight, so far as I know, by any taping, the buggingof people all over this over two dates; and there is no escape representative of the administration, so country with the consent of the execu­ 1·orus. that we can acton the assumption that tive branch, by the military intelligence, lam proud to array myself with the the President will approve and sign the theFBI, the CIA, and all the other agen­ distinguished Senator from Montana, bill. Then, afterward, if the President cies exercising such authority. That is an­ my great friend and colleague, my fails to do so, it would, in my jUdgment, other power that we had better bring party's leader in this body; the Honor­ be nothing less than a fraud on the back to Congress. And I would hope. if able MIKE MANSFIELD, and with my dis­ United States and the Senate, and we there is anything we have .1earned, it is tinguished colleague from Maine, the would be justified in coming back at the that we had bettel-keep 'our powers here, Honorable EDMUND MUSKIE. I cannot for earliest possible date to take mostimme­ and we .bad better exercise them. if we the life of me understand the capitula­ diate and concrete action; and we would are going to save this Republic. tions throughout the rest of the Foreign do so, I dare say, with resounding ma­ The PRESIDING OFFICER.The ques­ Relations Committee,for whose members joritieson both sides of the CapitoL tion is on agreeing to the amendment. I have the greatest respect. Mr. HARTKE. Mr. Presddent, let me lIIIr. FULBRIGHT. I ask for the yeas I urge my ,distinguished friends in this ask the Chairman of the Committee on and nays. Chamber, refrain from our first declar­ Foreign Relations, on what authority The yeas and nays were ordered. ation 00 war since Pearl Harbor. Vote does he represent to the Senate that the The PRESIDINGOFFICER. Theques­ peace. Stand fast. assurances contained in his statement tion is on a.gr~ing to the amendment of Mr. ABOUREZK. Mr. President, will are true andeorrect? the Senatorfrom Arkansas. On this ques­ theSenator yield? Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator from tion-- Mr. HARTKE. Iamglad to yield to Michigan has just given the Senator a :Mr. HARTKE. Mr. President, I sought the Senator from South Dakota. factual statement. If the Senator is rais­ recognition before the rollcall began. .Mr. ABOUREZK. 1 just wonder if the ing questions as to the veracity of the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen­ distinguished minority leader is in the minority leaders, in the Senate or in the atar from Indiana is recognized. Chamber. I .amgiV€n to understand, just House, I simply -cannot accept that. I be­ STOP THE MASSACRE OF THE INNOCENTS to clarify this point, that the minority lieve that these gentiemen are men of Mr. HARTKE. Mr. President, I would leader did not talk directly with the honor and that they ten the truth. prefer that we not vote tonight. I would President. 1 am given to understand that This matter was not the"first time to­ prefer to put this over..But I suppose the he talked with Mr. Laird, one of his as­ day that it came up. We had a discus­ overwhelming sentiment is to.go onhome sistants, and that Mr. Laird confirmed sion about it yesterday, and I think we to the luxur.Y of sleep. while the bombers that the President would not veto this had one. this morning. The minority keep on bombing, because I think the bill. leader undertook to clear the proposed senate of the United states is in danger. If my understanding'is wrong, I \I>ish language with the White House. The It is in danger of losing its credibility. It the minority leader or one of his spokes­ Senator heard what was said, so there is ism danger of losing its historic func­ men would clarify that for me. no use in my repeating it. tion. It is in danger of losing its rights Mr. HARTKE. Let me say to my dis­ The minority leader has just given the under the Constitution. tinguished friend from South Dakota, senator this information, which is ade­ More than tbat,Members of this body first, I aslred this question of the chair­ quate assurance that the President will who.ha'YesuO'ered so longto hold-against man of the Committee on Foreign Rela­ sign it. I will go further alOng the line the wars in Vietnam.and Southeast Asia, tions ·earlier in the evening, and I had of the Senator from TIlmois (Mr. STEVEN­ are in danger. TbeY are in Ganger of no clear answer to that question, either. SON), and 'Say that if he does not sign it countenancing whattbey have ()I)IJOSed. I am satisfied that we ought to have an after the pronouncements from the House 22324 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE June 29, 1973 and the minority leader here, there SEVERAL SENATORS. Vote! Vote! Vote! ator is making such a big thing out of would not be the slightest difficulty in Mr. HARTKE. I am not ready to vote. whether the President has said it. overriding a veto. That, in itself, would Mr. ABOUREZK. Mr. President, will I said that the President said it. GERRY be equally effective, in my opinion, if the the Senator from Indiana yield? FORD told the House of Representatives President wished to take that kind of Mr. HARTKE. I yield. that he said it. I am therefore content to action, which I do not believe he will. If Mr. ABOUREZK. Mr. President, I only rest on that and I leave it to the Senator he does. then I do not think there would wanted to say that I never meant to say from South Dakota to make his own be any doubt that both Houses would I did not accept the word of the minor­ decision as to the veracity of the Mem­ easily override. ity leader or of the assistant minority bers of either body. Mr. HARTKE. Mr. President. I do not leader. What I am merely saying is this, Mr. ABOUREZK. Mr. President, I wish believe the Senator from South Dakota and I want to make it very clear: That to apologize to the distinguished minor­ or the Senator from Indiana in any way when the minority leader said he talked ity leader for making such a big thing question the veracity of the statements to Mr. Laird, I believe him. All I am out of stopping the bombing in Cam­ made. I think we are determining def­ asking for is that we hear from the bodia. I sincerely wish to apologize for initely that the Foreign Relations Com­ President and not from Mr. Laird. I that. mittee acted.£)n representation of con­ think that is not too much to ask. I Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. The Sen­ versations which were made by the know that earlier this week, some ator from South Dakota misunderstood minority leader who, in tUlTI, relied on spokesman at the White House an­ me. I did not say that, nor did the Sena­ statements made by the minority leader nounced that as soon as John Dean was tor say that prior to the talk-- of the House, who in turn claimed that done testifying, the President would Mr. ABOUREZK. I did not dispute the he had a conversation with the President. take to television and speak to the minority leader's word. Had he been in Is that correct? Watergate issue. But after that was the Chamber, he would have heard me Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator is in­ over, the White House denied that was say that. As a matter of fact, I believe sinuating-but that is correct-that in ever said. the minority leader when he said that he some way or other the President has not All I am saying is, we should hear talked to Mr. Laird. However, my ques­ given his assurance. Let me say to the directly from the President. This is an tion is: Is there any reason why the Senator from Indiana that we have been important matter, much too important President cannot make a statement to on this matter all day long, and if the to rely on an aide in- the White House­ the Nation so that everyone can hear it? Senator wishes to delay the Senate.-as albeit a highly placed aide-it is much Mr. HARTKE. Let me say to the Sena­ I have delayed it myself some times-I too important to rely on anyone but the tor from South Dakota that I asked that hope that he will-- President. That is not too much to ask question early this evening. At that time. Mr. HARTKE. Could we not put the for. there was some confusion-I say this to vote over until tomorrow and have the Mr. FULBRIGHT. Well, for whatever the chainnan of the Foreign Relations President make a statement to the it is worth, this is on the ticker, it oc­ Committee-and I then looked for some­ Nation? CUlTed on the floor of the House today, one on the floor to find out on what au­ Mr. FULBRIGHT. That would be un­ as follows: thority we could rely. I do not think there wise. We have so much to do. The Sen­ Minority Leader Ford-I have just talked is any question that the minority leader ator knows the problems of the leader­ to the President for 10 minutes and he as­ speaks probably the truth, that he talked ship. Of course, that is not my respon­ sured me personally that everything I said to Mr. Laird and Mr. Laird said what on the floor was a commitment by him, Ford sibility. said. Ford had earller told the House, based FORD said that the President said, that-­ Mr. HARTKE. I would be glad per­ on the conversation with President Nixon, What was it? Does the Senator know sonally to see that we could vote at a time with domestic adviser Laird, that the Presi­ what he said? I do not know what he saId certain tomorrow. I do not know of any dent would accept the August 15 termination on the floor. I was not on the floor of tllP reason why this is a matter of such ur­ date. House. gency that we have to rely on statements Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. The made by the Foreign Relations Commit­ Unless the Senator questions FORD'S President has indicated that he WOUld tee on behalf of the minority leader or word, he said he personally had talked sign that resolution if it is adopted by on representations made by the minority to him. both House. I think that is sufficient. I leader of the House. Mr. ABOUREZK. I wonder whether did not talk to the President. I talked to Mr. MANSFIELD. If the Senator from anyone might be able to answer-and I Mr. Laird. Indiana would yield, may I say that in see the distinguished minority leader is Mr. HARTKE. Is that what Mr. FOR~ all my years in the Senate I have, with­ present in the Chamber now-perhaps said on the floor? Did he say that he out question, accepted the word of every he can answer it-why it is that the indicated that he would or that he said Senator when that word was given. That President cannot make a very important he would? What is it that the President word, of course, applies to the distin­ statement directly for himself? Why is allegedly told Representative FORD? guished minority leader. he not able to do that? SEVERAL SENATORS. Vote! Vote! Mr. HARTKE. With all due deference Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. Mr. Mr. SCOTT of Pennsylvania. I do not to the distinguished majority leader, for President, I would say to the Senator think that warrants an answer. whom I have the highest respect and from South Dakota, whom I greatly re­ Mr. HARTKE. Senators can yell have admired tonight, especially, more spect and who has not been here as long "Vote!" all night. I am not going to sit deeply than I probably ever will in my as some of us, that we normally do not down-and I have been chastised by this life, and I say that with great respect have on the Senate floor the presence of President and former Presidents-with­ for what he has done and for his stead­ the President of the United States, nor out understanding what we are going to fastness on this question, but I know that do we, as a rule, require Senators to take vote on tonight. I was here when the Gulf of Tonkin was an oath that they have talked to the Many Senators here have opposed this passed and I also know that representa­ President or with Members of the House. war for a long time; many of us have tions were made on the floor of the Sen­ ate about that. I do not claim that any­ I believe that the Senator has been taken a long time to debate the Eagleton one at that time purposely misled the assured the President telephoned the amendment; and tonight we have to Senate, but I know that I was very much minority leader of the Hollse of Repre­ hurry it through, as ,,'e did with the Gulf concerned; and if I had had the slightest sentatives and that this agreement was of Tonkin resolution, on representations. idea that, as a result of my vote on that satisfactory to him. I received a call from The Senator from South Dakota has resolution, it would result in over 50,000 Mr. Melvin Laird and I made some ref­ stated it accurately: What denies the Americans dying in Vietnam, I would not erence to it, without calling his name Senate the right to hear exactly what the have done so. I feel that in view of what earlier, and affirmed that the President President has said that he would or is going on in this country at this mo­ had said it. Now, if the Senator from would not do? Is there any reason why ment, we have to rely on third-hand in­ South Dakota wants any affidavits, I we cannot hear that? If there is any formation, which is certainly indicative will be glad to make them, but barring reason why we cannot hear it, we can of the surrender we are about to partici­ rffidavits, I must confess that I am a go ahead and talk awhile, because I thiak pate in tonight, and I would-- little bit at a loss to know why the Sen- we are going to be here awhile otherwise. June 29, 19'1'3 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 22325 Mr. SCOTI' of Pennsylvania. Mr. President understands that; the Senator . On this question, the yeas and nays President-- from Indiana understands it, I hope; have been ordered, and the clerk will call Mr. HARTKE. I have said repeatedly and the Senator from Pennsylvania un­ the roll. that I do not intend to sit down. I have derstands it. The legislative clerk called the roll. the floor, and if the Senator wants to an- Now, what more the Senator wants is Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD. I announce swer that question, that is all right. absolutely beyond me, and I am totally that the Senator from Texas