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Da´Il E´Ireann Vol. 597 Wednesday, No. 3 9 February 2005 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 9 February 2005. Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 621 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 629 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 643 Order of Business ……………………………… 644 Finance Bill 2005: Report Stage (resumed) ……………………… 651 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Environment and Local Government Priority Questions …………………………… 671 Other Questions …………………………… 684 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 696 Finance Bill 2005: Second Stage (resumed) ……………………… 697 Referral to Select Committee ………………………… 749 Private Members’ Business Northern Ireland Issues: Motion (resumed) …………………… 749 Adjournment Debate Hospital Services ……………………………… 780 Health Board Services …………………………… 782 Cancer Screening Programme ………………………… 785 Job Losses ………………………………… 788 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 793 621 622 DA´ IL E´ IREANN breach of trust by the Government and the Taoiseach has a responsibility and the authority ———— to ensure that it is sorted out in the interests of that sector. De´ Ce´adaoin, 9 Feabhra 2005. Wednesday, 9 February 2005. The Taoiseach: The Bill is still before the House. It has not yet passed Second Stage. Dis- ———— cussions are ongoing. The Disability Legislation Consultation Group has been very much involved Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar in the process over a number of years. I have 10.30 a.m. attended a number of meetings with the leader- ship of the movement and we have discussed the ———— framework for the Bill extensively. The remain- ing issue of concern prior to Christmas was fund- Paidir. Prayer ing and how we would roll that out on a multi- annual basis. We have dealt with that. ———— In our discussions the groups involved, who I find to be reasonable people, put forward various cases. I will examine the issue of the letters which Leaders’ Questions. was raised by Deputy Kenny. However, it is good Mr. Kenny: Last night up to 700 people with legislation. In framing it we examined models in disabilities, their families, their carers and their other parts of the world, in Australia, Canada, advocates attended at the RDS to express their New Zealand, the United States of America, the anger and frustration at what they perceive to be UK and in different parts of Europe, and our shortcomings in the Disability Bill 2004. In legislation is very progressive. addition to the anger and frustration they There are demands from some people for some expressed, there was a distinct feeling of having kind of rights based legislation that is lawyer been through this previously. They thought, when driven, but such legislation does not exist any- the 2001 Bill was withdrawn and the Disability where in the organised world and neither would Legislation Consultation Group was set up, that it be appropriate. Our strategy is rights based but the Government was involved in genuine dia- it is not lawyer driven. Under the approach we logue with the various groups and the representa- have adopted people are entitled to an indepen- tives of the disability sector. The legislation pro- dent assessment of their needs, for which they duced in September 2004 bears little resemblance have fought for many years, and I totally under- to what the members of the group thought they stand why they did that. There is a statement of were helping to frame in consultation with the services to which they are entitled. There is access Government. to an appeal system to deal with complaints This Bill has been described as fundamentally regarding the assessment of the service. If a ser- flawed by many groups, including the Human vice statement is laid out and people are not get- Rights Commission. The definition of disability is ting the service, there is an appeals process to so restrictive that it almost certainly excludes deal with it. There is ultimate access to the courts from its provisions persons with mental illness to enforce the decisions of an independent and those with disability who need episodic as appeals process. That is a very strong and signifi- distinct from continuous service. What should cant power. There are transparent multi-annual have been landmark and progressive legislation is funding commitments for current and capital now perceived as regressive and excluding. spending and, most important, there is a clear and In the The Irish Times this morning, the Mini- transparent sectoral commitment to provide for ster of State at the Department of Justice, the needs of people with disabilities. Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Fahey, stated he would be happy to respond in writing to sub- The Government’s approach has been to missions. Given that the Disability Legislation develop a really good, powerful, strong, well Consultation Group sent recommendations to the resourced and clear Bill, which is welcomed by Department last October, why has it taken the everybody. There is also the Comhairle Department until now to give an answer? Will (Amendment) Bill 2004 and the six outline sec- the Taoiseach see to it that the correspondence is toral plans in the key departmental areas, some- comprehensively and fully dealt with? thing for which the disability lobby groups and The Second Stage speeches, particularly of organisations have fought for over many years. Government representatives, were largely self- There is also a commitment to funding not only congratulatory in tone. The Taoiseach did a good for this year but until the end of the decade. day’s work yesterday in dealing with the issue of I accept there are still issues the relevant the release of the killers of Detective Garda groups want considered when we are amending McCabe. We discussed at some length in this the Bill. The Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, has House the breach of trust by the republican already discussed these matters with me and with movement. What has dragged on here for seven the Minister for Finance and we will respond on years in terms of the disability sector is a national them. 623 Leaders’ 9 February 2005. Questions 624 Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach could not have been Mr. F. McGrath: We are fed up of the courts. at last night’s meeting but I am sure he had rep- I was there last night. resentatives there. If all of the matters the Taoiseach has mentioned are included, why is An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy will leave there so much frustration, so much anger and a the House if he does not behave himself. feeling of having been let down on the part of so many of the people who are involved with dis- The Taoiseach: Deputy McGrath is right ability groups, who are carers or advocates, or because that is the issue. What we are endeav- who have family members who are affected? ouring to do in the legislation is to provide for an Is it correct that the Taoiseach stated he does independent assessment of needs where a dis- not favour rights based legislation? abled person can be assessed independent of the system. The Taoiseach: I do not favour rights based legislation that is lawyer driven. Ms Lynch: They can go and go and go. Ms O. Mitchell: Is there another kind? The Taoiseach: When I want to give an answer the Deputies will not listen. There is a statement Mr. Kenny: Most things in this country are law- of services to which they are entitled, there is yer driven. Does the Taoiseach favour rights access to an appeals process to deal with com- based legislation that is not lawyer driven? plaints about the assessment of service, there is ultimate access to the courts if that is The Taoiseach: Yes. required—— Mr. Kenny: The definition being accorded to Mr. Stanton: There is not, they are barred. disability is not clear. Does it mean that episodic treatment, or treatment on an occasional basis as The Taoiseach: Yes, there is. distinct from continuous treatment, will be avail- able to persons who require it? Can the An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputies to Taoiseach confirm that the entire mental health remain silent. area will be included? It appears as if the legis- lation excludes thousands of people who feel they The Taoiseach: In regard to the transfer of the should be included in legislation of this nature. I multi-annual programme, we have given \2.5 understand the Irish Human Rights Commission billion in the period up to the end of the decade. issued a statement some time ago to the effect it Deputy Kenny asked what was the objective of does not support the Bill. Perhaps the Minister of the Bill. The Bill puts in place a framework for State at the Department of Justice, Equality and the provision of health and personal social ser- Law Reform, Deputy Fahey, would be good vices for people with a disability. That is what it enough to call in the different groups for a face is endeavouring to do. It allows for systematic to face interaction on their concerns and frus- development and improvement to these services, trations. I am sure he is sufficiently concerned to it requires that public services and buildings are do that. made accessible for them, it also obliges public bodies to be proactive in employing people with The Taoiseach: On the issue of episodic treat- disabilities, it restricts the use of information from ment, if the assessment of needs say it is required genetic testing and establishes centres for excel- that is covered. The Deputy asked me to clarify lence. All of those issues are contained in the Bill, the rights based issue. We have said all along that they were all of the demands. I accept that there the strategy is a rights based approach but it is are still some issues of concern with which the wrong that the ultimate system is to get a person Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, is dealing with who has a disability into court in order to get his the groups.
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