@!JP ell ~ VoL,lV No. 38 Wedres." ~ U. 1915 Val.'. 4, 1907 (SUa)
LOK SABHA DEBATES (English· .Version)
SecoDd Session (Eighth Lok Sabha)
(VIIi. IY contai1!,J Nos. 21 to 30)
LOll SABBA SECRETARIAT NEW DElID {Original English proceedinp included in Enllish Version and on,inal Hindi proceedings included in Hindi Vet'lion will be treatat as authori1ative and not the trans lation thereof.] . CONTENTS
No. 30, April 24, 1985jVaisakha 4, 1907 (Saka)
COLUMNS
Obituary References 1-2 Oral Answers to Questions : 2-26
*Starred Questions Nos. 567 to 569, 571.572 and 574
Written Answers to Questions: 26-159
Starred Questions Nos. 570, 573 and 575 to 587 26-38
Unstarred Questions Nos. 4146 to 4159. 4161 to 4175, 4177 to 38-159 4219, 4221 to 4233 and 4235 to 4282
Motion Re. Situation in Ahmedabad (Negatived) 159--244 Shri S. B. Chavan 159
Sbri V. Tulsiram 161 Prof. K. K. Tewary 162
Prof. Madhu Dandavate 170 Shri Narsinb Makwana 185 Shri Saifuddin Chowdhury 190 Shri Priya Ranjan Das Munshi 193 Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee 201 Shri B. K. Gadhvi 204
Shri R. Annanambi 208 Shri Zainul Basher 211 Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo 215 Shri G. G. Swell 220 Dr. A. K. Patel 225 Shri Amar Roypradhan 228
• The sign t marked above the name of a Member indicates that the question was actually asked on the floor of the House by that Member.
(i) (ii)
CoLUMNS
Papers Laid on the Table 245-247
Matters Under Rule 377 247-250
(i) Need to print retail prices on all varieties of cloth on each metre Shri Shanti Dhariwal 247
(ii) Need to extend Akbarpur-Tanda Railway line and construction of another ~latform with sheds at those Stations Shri Ram Pyare Suman 248
(iii) Need to extend the services of Vayudoot/I.A. to Purnea (Bihar)
Shrimati Madhuri Singh 248
(iv) Increasing volume of traffic from Kerala to Gulf countries and need to declare Trivandrum as an International Airport and complete the work on Calicut and Cochin Airports
Shri K. Mohandas 249
(v) Need to take out a tributary from Sone Irrigation Canal from Ghana to Pareb in Patna district Shri C. P. Thakur 250
Demands for GJ;ants (General), 1985-86 250-286
Ministry of Defence
Shri E. Ayyapu Reddy 250 Shri Modh. Ayub Khan 260 Shri Rajesh Pilot 263 Shri Priya Ranjan Das M unshi 271 Shri Amal Datta 277
Discussion Re. Progress of Indian Women in Social, Educational, 286-342 Political and Economic Fields in the International Women's Decade
Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee 286 Prof. N. G. Ranga 288 Sbrimati Krishna Sahi 296 Shrimati Vidyavati Chaturvedi 301 Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara Rao 304 Shrimati layanti Patnaik 306 (iii)
CoLUMNS Shri Hannan MoUah 311
Sbrimati Kishori Sinha 31S
Sbrimati Indumati Bhattacharrya 319
Prof. Chandra Bhanu nevi 320
Shrimati Phulrenu Guha 322
Kumari Mamta Banerjee 326
Shrimati Premalabai Chavan 330
Shri A. Charles 332 Shrimati M. Chandrasckhar 334 LOK SABHA DEBATES
1 2
LOK SABHA Shri J. G. More passed away on 27 February 1985 at Pandharpur at the age of 88 years. Wednesday, April 24, 1985JVaisakha 4, 1907 (Saka) Father Anthony Murmu was a member of the Sixth tok Sabha during 1977-79 The Lok Sabha met at Ele; en of the Clock. representing Rajmahal constituency of Bihar. [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair] A Priest and a farmer by profession, he took keen interest in social work and worked SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY Sir, relentlessly for the welfare of the tribal people (Interrupti ons)* and preservance of their culture. He was a deeply religious person and loved music and MR. DEPUTY TPEAKER I am now social discourse. taking up Obituary References. Father Anthony Murmu passed away on (Interruptions)* 19 April, 1985 in tragic circumstances at the age of 55 years. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Why are you standing and shouting? Please sit down. We deeply mourn the loss of these friends I will {lot allow it. N olhing is aHowed. You and I am sure the House will join me in raise it in Zero Hour after the Question Hour conveying our condolences to the bereaved is over. Not now. No please. (/nterrllptions)* families. The House may not stand in silence for OBITUARY REFERENCES a short while to express its sorrow. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Now the The Members then stood in silence Obituary References. for a short while I have to inform the House of the sad (Interruptions)* demise of two of our former colleagues, Shri MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Not allowed. Jayawant Ghanshyam More and Father I told you to raise it alter the question hour. Anthony Murmu. Sh ri Mohanbhai Patel. Shrl Jayawant Ghanshyam More was a member of the Second Lok Sabha during ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 1957-62 representing Sholapur constituency of the then Bombay State. Earlier he had [EnglishJ been a member of the Bombay Legislative Electronic Telephone Instruments Council during 1930-35 and then of the Legislative Assembly during 1937-42 and again *567. SHRI MOHANBHAI PATEL during 1952-57. Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : An agriculturist by profession, he took active interest in agriculture and cooperation. (a) whether Government are going in for He was a member of District Development the manufacturing of electronic telephone Board, Sholapur. instruments in the country;
*Not recorded. 3 Oral Answers APRIL 24,1985 Oral Answers 4
(b) if so, the steps taken in this respect communications technology, and we are far and the results achieved; and behind. Today, we have only 14 electronic exchanges in the country. Have the Govern- (c) whether any foreign assistance has ment fixed any detailed targets to establish been sought in this direction and if so, the only electronic exchanges when there are details thereof? more than a certain number of lines? Has THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE any survey been made about the requirement MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- of electronic telephone instruments in the LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS OF coming ten years? If so, what are the details OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC thereof? What is the Government's plan ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS to achieve this requirement? (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATEL) : (a) Yes, Sir. SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL The (b) and (c). Government has selected the requirement in terms of numbers of the following foreign firms for transfer of techno- units, by 1990 would be in the vicinity of 30 logy of electronic telephone instruments : lakhs. At present, we have given licences to establish the capacity; and that capacity is (i) MIs. Siemens AG (West Germany); 47 lakhs. The total capacity which will be established by the organized sector, public (ii) MIs. Ericsson (Sweden); and sector and the private sector will be in the (iii) Mis. I. T. T. FACE (Italy). vicinity of 104 lakh units. As far as the time limit within which Letters of Intent have also been issued to electronic exchanges will be established and a number of units in the Central, State and other things, are concerned, it is for the Private Sectors for manufacture of Electronic Ministry of Communications to give those telephone instruments who will manufacture plans. At present. I do not have detailed the product based on the above selected information about the time limit within which technologies using standardised components. all these things will be done. The Depart- SHRI MOHANBHAI PATEL: Today, ment of Electronics is concerned with the there are many new technologies developed technology aspect of it, the transfer of technology aspect of it, and the development in the field of electronic telephone instruments. of technology aspect of it. We are establish- According to the original reply, Government have decided to import technology from West ing the capacity to produce the instruments Germany, Sweden and Italy. In view of this. indigenously also, by carrying on re'>earch and development. We are trying to get the I would like to know the names of the units technology from outside, and we are trying through whom the letters of intent have been to use the technology which is available here. issued, for which item, and when production is expected to come out. SHRI KOLANDAIVELU : Technicians are available in abundance in Tamil Nadu. SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : Production Tamil Nadu is also short of electronics is likely to commence in the first quarter of industries with foreign assistance. 1986. We had received about 81 applications from the organized sector, and 20 applications MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are from small scale industries. The number of talking about electronics; the question is units which have been recommended is 39, about telephones. and the letter of intent has been given to 34. SHRI KOLANDAIVELU : I am coming Ther~ are five small-scale industries which to it. Will electronic telephone industries be have received the letter of intent. The names of the companies can be given to the hon. started in Tamil Nadu, since Tamil Nadu is politically, economically and c1imaticall; Member. I know some of the names, but suitable f?r starting any industry? it will take time to read the 34 names. SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : OUf policy MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : It may be lays down that the private sector, the joint laid on the Table. sector and the public sector is al10wed to SHRI MOHANBHAI PATEL At manufacture the electronic telephone and present, our telephone system is based on old communication instruments. If there are any technolo~. World is developing in modern people interested in doing that and if there is .5 Orai Answers V AISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Oral Answers 6 capacity available, certainly they can come Ministry that they could be able to identify and get the approval for manufacturing those the root causes of environmental pollutions. things. The electronic industry is of course But I am sorry to say that they have not developing in and around Madras and other taken adequate measures to check these places over there. As to whether the electronic pollutions which are reaching a very dang- industry relating to the telecommunication is erous level including Carbon dioxide. In his coming up or not, well, jf there are people reply to my question part (b), the hon. interested in that, they can certainly come. Minister has replied that the threshold or canger level is stilI in the realm of "Carbon Dioxide iu Environment" scientific investigation. When were these investigations started by the scientists *568. SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA and findings of these investigations could be Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to made available to us? In his reply to my state : question part (c), the hon. Minister has (a) whether the emission of carbon replied that "pollution free transport system; dioxide in the environment is increasing non-pollution energy systems" are some of steadily; the measures to check such pollution. What action is taken or proposed to be taken on (b) whether it is apprehended that these two aspects? On the other hand. a towards the beginning of the next century the study was carried out by the Delhi Admini- quantity of carbon dioxide in the environ- stration to ascertain the environment pollu- ment 'liould reach a dangerous proportion; tion by the vehicles in the Union Capital, and Delhi. The Study Group in their preliminary report has mentioned that all the eight points (c) the steps being taken to protect where study was carried out showed that the environment from carbon dioxide? pollutions have reached far above the pres- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE cribed limit. So, this must be much more in MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND other cities like Calcutta, Bombay and FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) : (a) Yes, Sir. Madras, etc. where the number of vehicles plying specially heavy vehicles is much more (b) If Carbon dioxide emissions to than that of Delhi. What action government atmosphere continue at the present rate. it is going to take? could reach 380 ppmv (parts per million by volume) at the beginning of next century. SHRI VIR SEN This is not one The threshold or danger level is still in the question; there are a number of questions. realm of scientific investigation. But I will try to answer some of them.· As far as study is concerned, no study has been (c) The increas: in Carbon dioxide level carried out in any part of the world. For in the atmosphere is the result of actions in this study, sophisticated instruments are all parts of the world. The World Metereo- required. We also propose to set up a logical Organisation and the United Nations monitoring centre in the Seventh Five Year Environment Programme have commissioned Plan. There are so many questions of which detailed investigations on various aspects of the hon. Member has put. Firstly, he has Carbon dioxide emission and resultant concentrated on the question of trans port effects on environment. These studies may poUution in Delhi. Of course, we are trying point towards actions that have to be taken to reduce the lad content from the petro- through cooperation between different leum supplied to the automobiles. There countries. However, the following steps are are 50 many other questions that have been needed to reduce build-up of carbon-dioxide put and we are trying to reduce the C02 in the atmosphere : content by using non-polluting fuel in the automobiles by trying to use battery-pro- -Control of C02 emission at source; pelled motors etc. -Mass afforestation; -Pollution free tr~nsport systems; SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: Both the -Non-polluting energy systems; question and answer are classic !
SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA: I am MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER That we grateful to the hon. Prime Minister and his have to see. , Oral Answers APRIL 14, 198.5 Oral Answers 8
SHRI VIR SEN : He has put so many course, does not relate to Carbon dioxide questions that it is very difficult to remem- and it relates to the Ministry of ber all the questions. Industry. Mr. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Mr. Sbahi. Pradhan. SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA: I want [Translation] to put another supplementary. SHRl K. N. PRADHAN: Mr. Deputy MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : YOll have Speaker, Sir, the most effective step, already put a big question. What is the supplimentary now? All right, go ahead. - according to the hon. Minister, to maintain balance of carbon dioxide and oxygen is SHR! CHINTAMANI JENA : The hon. mass afforestation. The trees absorb carbon Minister in his reply has stated that the dioxide and emit oxygen. We have under- meteorological organisation and the United taken a number of programmes to encourage Nations Environment Programme had afforestation. Has any review been made to commissioned a detailed investigation, etc. assess the success achieved vis-a-vis the May I know whether the United Nations money spent on afforestation ? Conference held at Stockholm in the y¢ar 1972, had adopted a resolution to have SHRI VIR SEN: Mr. Deputy Speaker, legislation on this pollution? May I know Sir, the hon. Member is aware of our what is the progress in this regard ? programmes of afforestation of 500 crore hectares of land and our pro- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is grammes are already under way under enough. You have already put two supple- the programme of social afforestation. mentaries. In this way, considerable progress is being made in this direction. The details the hon. SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA : This is Member has sought have already been given the last part of my question. by me in answer to another question. SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: This is a (English] Parliamentary version of carbon dioxide. SHRI AJAY MUSHRAN : Yesterday in SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA: The the TV news they showed certain trails for scientists of the United Nations are of the checking air pollution being conducted by opinion that agriculture and some agro- using C02- Is the Government considering industries generate considerable quantity of implementing this scheme as a pilot pro- noxious gases and similarly the use of DDT gramme in Delhi in order to contain pollu- and other insecticides is also polluting the tion which is being caused because of the air. May I know what action this govern- affects of automobiles running on. Delhi ment is going to take and what is the roads ? As trials are in the habit of going reaction of the Government to this ? on for years, are you considering any deterrent steps? Has the Government some- SHRI VIR SEN : The hon. Member thing in mind for their execution ? bas referred to the Conference which took place in 1972. The question of carbon SHRI VIR SEN: We are taking several dioxide was not considered at that steps to control automobile pollution. conference. SHRI LALITESHWAR SHAHI: In PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Have view of the fact that coal is being burnt you seen this news item <>n TV? openly in order to convert it into so~t coke, is the Government thinking of puttmg up SHRI VIR SEN: I have not seen. scientific plants for conversion of coal into soft coke and deriving other gases out of it MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He is in order to bring down the air pollution in giving the information to help you. the coal belt areas ? SHRI VIR SEN : Thes~ are not related SHRI VIR SEN: This question, of to carbon dioxide pollution. 9- Oral Answer,t VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Drat Answers iO
[Translation] the Scheduled Tribes, but the Scheduled SHRIMATI VIDYAWATI CHATUR- Tribe people feel that under the component VEDI : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, scientific plan individuals and families get more and measures have been taken to check pollution direct benefits, whereas under the tribal sub-plan this is not the case. }, therefore, and along with that, as the hon. Members have said, afforestation is proving very want to know from the hon. Minister whether effective. Even our Rishis and Munis a provision will be made in the Seventh Five Year Plan similar to the component considered the pipal tree as sacred b:!cause plan so that the individuals and families this tree ab:mrbs carbon dioxide and emits belonging to the Scheduled Tribes could also oxygen. I. therefore, want to know from the derive semilar benefits under the tribal hon. Minister whether it woul3 be kept in sub-plan? mind during .afforestation that more and more pipal trees be planted so that the air [English] and the atmosphere could become pure? SHRI S. B. CHAVAN : It is absc~utely SHRI VIR SEN: I am aware of the clear in the second part of my reply that the information given by the hon. Member. It benefits which are available to the Scheduled is believed that a pipal tree is capable of Castes under the Component Plan are also providing oxygen for a population of 60 , available to the Scheduled Tribes under the thousand persons. We shall consider the Tribal Sub-Plan. So, there is no difficulty suggestion of the hon. Member. about that. There appears to be some kind of a misunderstanding. The presumption Remodelling of TS? itself is not correct. [ Translation] *569. SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN: Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN: The pleased to state : benefits that are available under the com- ponent plan are not available under the (a) whether Planning Commission has tribal sub-plan. I want to know whether agreed to remodel the Tribal Sub-Plans on similar benefits will be provided to the the pattern of Component Plans in the tribal people also. Seventh Plan; and . SHRI S. B. CHAVAN Mr. Deputy (b) if so, whether such schemes which Speaker, Sir, this information of the hon. yield direct benefits to individuals and Member does not seem to be correct that families under Component Plans will be the benefits available under the component framed under Tribal Sub-Plans? plan are not available under the tribal sub- plan. I do not agree to this contention of'the THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS hon. Member. The benefits made available (SHRI S. B. CHAVAN): (a) The Working under the component plan are available Group on Tribal Development for the under the tribal sub-plan also. Sir, it would Seventh Planjset up by the Planning Commis- be improper to thing that the benefits avai- sion has suggested continuance of the lable under the component plan are not existing Tribal Sub-Plan strategy. The available under the tribal sub-plan. Govern- Tribal Sub-Plan strategy is areas specific ment do not subscribe to this view. All with focus on the Scheduled Tribe popula- the benefits that are available under the tion. Such areas have been brought under component plan are also available under ITDP, MADA Pockets and Primitive Tribes the tribal sub-plan. Projects. (b) Schemes similar to Component Plan SHRI RAMSWAROOP RAM: Mr. which yield direct benefits to individuals and Deputy Speaker, Sir, the population of the families are already being taken up under Harijans and the Adivasis in the country is the Tribal Sub-Plan. about 20 crores. An amount of Rs. 42 crores is allocated for them in the annual SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN : Mr. plan. This money has been al10cated by us Deputy Speaker, Sir, component plan has for th.!ir development. I think this amount been formulated for the Scheduled Castes does not come to more than Rs. 2 per head and tribal sub-plan has been formulated for Keeping in 'View our intention to help 11 Oral AnsWers APRIL 24, It8~ . Oral Answers ii
tbem in their development and improve their programmes that the Government of India economic condition, is there any proposal has undertaken under the Sub-Plan, but before Government to increase this recently you might have seen some reports allocation? that thousands of tribal people are leaving their homes in Koraput and Ganjum dis- SHRI S. B. CHAVAN: The poverty tricts of Orissa because of lack of drinking alleviation programme is a part of I.R.D.P. water, and are coming to the planes in search and other programmes. The number of of drinking water. I would like to know famiEes to be benefited is fixed thereunder. whether this problem has been brought to These families are provided with assistance, the notice of the hon. Minister and the whether it be from financial institutions or Government of-India and whether they want from State Governments or in the form of to remove all those difficulties that they special assistance from '[he Centre. From the carne across in the Sixth Plan, by monitoring experience gained by us from the Sixth Plan, these programmes. it would be our endevour to allocate more funds for poverty alleviation programme. SHRI S. B. CHA VAN = There is a' [English} mechanism of monitoring available in all the States Governments at State level, SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Sir, district level and even at the project level. at present, only those villages where more They are supposed to have a monitoring than 50 per cent of the population is tribal, mechanism. They review the implementation are earmarked as ITDP villages, and only of the schemes and whatever drawbacks are those villages which are earmarked as such, located, they are identified and corrective are getting the benefits of ITDP. Because of actions are supposed to be taken thereafter. this, most of the tribal people are not I am in full agreement with the hon. :tAember getting tbe benefits of this programme. In that the total amount which has been given view of this, I would like to know whether to different States, the State Governments the Government will review its policy with have not been able to utilise them fully. regard to ITDP villages so that those villages Might be about 90 to 95 per cent of the where the trible population is less than 50 total allocation has been utilised by per cent, are also included for giving the them. benefits under tbe Tribal Sub-Plan. SHRI S. B. CHAVAN: Besides the About the drinking water supply, I will ITDP and the MADA programme that the have to check up. I do not have ready Government has been undertaking in the information on this. But there are some dispersed areas, where the population of years when we find that the source from tribals happens to be less than 50 per cent, which the drinking water supply has been all benefits available under the ITDP are taken, that itfelf has dried up and thaJ has also available to them. In the Seventh Plan created a problem for certain areas. If hon. we propose to introduce the concept of Member has any such problem iu view, he Cluster Approach to these areas. may let me know. Certainly we will have to look into it. But I do not have any ready MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Shri information with me now. Brahma Dutt. [Trans/ation] SHRI BRAHMA DUTT: My friend Funds For F .R.E.P. to States has already asked this question. *571. PROF. NIRMALA KUMARI SHRI CHINTAMANI PANIGRAID: I SHAKTAWAT: Win the Minister of simply wanted to know from the bon. PLANNING be pleased to state : Minister whether there has been any moni- toring of these Sub-Plan programmes and (a) the funds allotted to various States whether after monitorins of these programmes, under the National Rural Employment Pro- it has been found that whatever money had gramme during the last two years; and been allotted to the States during the Sixth Plan, that· has not been. fully and properly (b) whether Government propose to utilised. Supply of drinking water to the enhance the amount for backward States like tribal people is one of the very important Rajasthan for the year 1985-86 '1 VAISAKHA,'4, t907 (SAKA) Oral !lfnswers 1
[Englishl (b) State-wise allocations under N.R.E.P. are made on the basis of a formula giving THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE weightage to the popuJatioo of marginal MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. farmers and agricultural labourers and the NARAYANAN): (a) A statement is laid incidence of poverty in each State. No special on the Table of the House. dispensation has been provided for 1985-86.
Statement
Statement showing the Central Assistance allocated to the States! UTs. under NREP during 1983-84 and 1984-85 (Rs. in lakhs)
SI. States/Union Central Assistance allocated to No. Territories States/Union Territories during 1983-84 1984-85 ---_._--- 1 2 3 4
1. Andhra Pradesh 1990.00 2270.00 2. Assam 438.00 498.00
3. Bihar 2872.00 3274.00 4. Gujarat 650.00 740.00 5. Haryana 170.00 196.00 6. Himachal Pradesh 120.00 138.00
7. Jammu and Kashmir 150.00 170.00 8. Karnataka 950.00 1080.00 9. Kerela 930.00 1060.00 10. Madhya Pradesh 1470.00 1676.00 11. Maharashtra 1600.00 1826.00
12. M,mipur 22.00 25.00 13. Meghalaya 30.00 34.00 14. Nagaland 20.00 24.00 15. Orissa 910.00 1036.00
16. Punjab 275.00 316.00 17. Rajasthan 480.00 550.00 18. Sikkim 16.00 18.00 19. Tamil Nadu 1800.00 2050.00
20. Tripura 66.00 76.00 21. U Uar Pradesh 3440.00 3922.00 22. West Bengal 1555.00 1774.00 15 Oral AnrN.... APRIL 24. 1985 Oral Answer! 16
1 2 3 4 ------_- Union Territories
23. Andaman and Nicobar Islands 32.00 36.00 24. Arunachal Pradesh 32.00 36.00 25. Chandigarh 8.00 10.00 26. Dadra and Nagar Haveli 16.00 18.00 27. Delhi 13.80 16.00 28. Goa, Daman and Diu 36.80 42.00 29. Lakshadweep . 8.00 10.00 30. Mizorum 32.00 36.00 31. Pondicherry 32.00 36.00 A-ll India 20,164,60 22,993,00
(Translali on] I would like to add that the criteria PROF. NIRMALA KUMARI followed is that 75 per cent of the NREP SHAKTAWAT : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allocation is on the basis of population of it appears from the answer given by the hone marginal farmers and landless labourers and Minister that the State of Rajasthan has been 25 per cent on the basis of the incidence of grossly neglected in the matter of allocations poverty. As for the demand for changing made under N.R.E.P. You have kept U.P. this allocation pattern especially for on top followed by Bihar, Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan considering that there are desert Maharashtra. Madhya Pradesh, Tamil Nadu areas and as such the concentration of in descending order. Keeping in view the population is less, I would like to inform the stuation in Rajastnan, you have allocated hone Member that there are some proposal Rs. 480 lakhs for 1983-84 and Rs. 550 lakhs which are under examination. for 1984-85 for this State. The geographical {Translation] position of Rajasthan is quite different froml that of other States of the country. In area, PROF. NIRMALA KUMARI Rajashan is the second largest States in the SHAKTAWAT: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, country. Its border touches Pakistan and the I want to inform the hone Minister that the Adivasis predominate there. Drought accurs State of Rajasthan is on top in the matter of there every alternate year. Keeping in view implementation of the 20-point programme. these facts, will the han. Minister modify The reason for not utilizing the entire thjs formula accordingly? amount is that the financial condition of Rajasthan is not sound. The State Govern- [English] tpent cannot contribute its share due to SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN: As a drought and overdrafts. The result is that the matter of fact, the allocations made to funds provided to it are not utilized. I there- Rajasth;m have not been fully utilised. I fore, want to know from the hon. Minister would like to give the figures. In 1980-81, whether in view of the pecaliar conditions Rs. 34.32 crores have been allocated, out of prevailing in the State of Rajasthan wiJI the which Rs. 28.05 had been utilised; in 1981- Central Government consider going any 82. Rs. 15.6 crores were allocated and Rs. extra amount to that State in addition to 75 11.62 crores were utilised; In 1982-83, Rs. per cent? 13.34 crores were allocated and Rs. 9.35 crores were utilised; In 1983-84, Rs. 13.98 [English1 crores had been allocated and Rs. 10040 crores SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN: Is it were utilised; and in 1984-85, Rs. 19.8 crores specially for Rajasthan or for the entire were allocated and Rs. 10.60 crores were country? vti{ise4, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Rajasthan. 17 Oral Answers VAISAKElA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Or(ll Answers 18
SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA KUMARI MAMTA BANERP.:E: NREP RAO : It is for aU the States. Even Tamil is a very important scheme to implement the Nadu. 20-point programme, but in West Bengal the poorer people are not getting the facility SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN: In addi- from this NREP schemes. All money is going tion to the"NREP and other programmes, in to the CPI(M) Party and its Cadre funds. Rajasthan, t.here are also in operation the So, I would like to know from the Minister programme for the drought prone areas as whether the Central Government would well as the desert development programme. enquire into the actual amount allocated to We had discussed the desert development the State of West Benga) and how much of programme in great detail in the House the fund has been allowed by the West recently. All these programmes are in addi- Bengal Government for the NREP scheme . tion to the e~isting anti-poverty programmes. during the last two years. I would also like It is the intention of the Gov~rnment to to know how many people have got the help strengthen all these programmes. from the NREP scheme and who are those SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA people who have benefited from this scheme. RAO : I would like to know whether there Actually it is the Marxist cadre which is are instfllctions from the Government of taking benefit of this. India to the States that certain percentage of (Interruptions) these funds allocated to a particular State should be spent for the programmes connec- SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHURY ted with the upliftment of SCST. If so, on We want Government's reply. the similar lines I would like to know whether the Government will consider giving MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you instructions to allocate certain percentage of want to answer this supplementary or you the funds allocated for the programmes want a separate question. connected with the upHftment of the small SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN : I think. it and marginal farmers and backward classes is a separate question. also. KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN: Well, as How many people have got the benefit from 1 said, under the formula for allocation the the NREP because it is the CPM which funds •.• takes away the money in West Bengal? It is SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA a very serious problem in West Bengal. All RAO : Not allocations, 1 am asking about money is going to the Party offices. spending of the funds allocated to a parti- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Madam. cular State. please sit down. SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN: Well, it (Tnterruptions) is not specifically earmarked, but the instruc- tions are that the small and marginal farmers MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He has should be given priority particular)~ in terms alredy given certain facts which are la:d on of employment creation. the Table of the House as to what is the SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA amount allotted for the last two years. RAO : You have not followed me. I want to Regarding other matters, I think, they are know whether there are instructions asking the beyond the purview of the main Question. State Governments to spend certain per- The question is more relevant to the State centage of the total NREP funds allocated to of Rajasthan. If you want to ask about West a particular State to be spent for upliftment Bengal, you can put a separate question. of SCST. If so, whether on the similar lines the Government of India would give instruc- [ TranslationJ tions to the States to allocate certain per- SHRI GIRDHARI LAL VYAS: Mr. centage for the programmes connected with Deputy Speaker, the D.P.A.P. programme ~he upliftment of the backward classes. which was being implemented in Rajasthan SHRI K. R. NARA Y ANAN : There is has been given up now. Funds were not no specific amount earmarked under these being provlded for the same. Figures have instructions for this category. been provided in regard to N.R.E.P. and 19 Oral Answers APRIL 249 198"5 Oral Answers 20 the years have been indicated when money SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN: If a was not spent. We had stated in the begin- school is to be built under the programme, ning that Rajasthan's financial position was naturally some contractors have to come into such that it could not conitribute matching the picture. Certainly people who go to work amount vis-a-vis that contributed by the there get their wages direct. Central Government for this programme. This was the reason why the funds could not SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Even be utilised fully Government should pay roads are being constructed only through the special attention to this backward State contractors. You know it and we know it. where more than half of the area consists of MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have ~esert and one-fourth of the area is hil,ly alr~ady told that. The Minister gave the w~rein the tribals live. 75 per cent of the answer. That is all. people of the State, including a large number of small and marginal farmers are living SHRI K. R. NARA Y ANA'N : There are below the poverty line. The figures that have !!uidelines that there should not be any been given indicate that 75 per cent of the contractor in this work at all. There are amount would be spent on sma 11 and margi- guidelines. nal farmers and 25 per cent on the people living below the poverty line. Rajasthan has SHRI SATYAGOPAL MISRA: Sir, both these categories. The State is very back- some assets have been created through NRE ward so far as these categories are concerned. programme in some areas. I want to know Will the Government of India, kystems as D.;:puty Speaker, Sir, my second question is, w~ll as their p;:rform~nce under field condi- as there is gre::tt demand of solar energy in tions. Among the sY3tems which have been the country, what amount has been allocated developed in the country and brought to a or will be ano~ated for solar _energy in the stage of field application are solar water Seventh Five Year Plan. heating systems, sohr dryers, timber kilns, solar cookers, sol3.r stills, photo voltaic water SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I have pump:ng systems, community and street already stated the provision made for solar lighting units, community radio and TV sets energy during the Sixth Five Year Plan. etc. The technology for the manufacture of But the Seventh Plan has not been finalised 23 OrcJ Answers Oral Answers 24
as yet. Before it is finalised. I cannot SHRI VIlA Y N. PATIL ~ In Cyprus, I give him information regarding the provision have seen every house is having a solar in the Seventh Plan for solar energy. At the heater. I would like to know whether an moment I can only say that the provision in experiment will be conducted in India also, the Seventh Plan will be some what more taking one village as the unit for solar than that made in the Sixth Plan. heaters, for heating the water in cold climate of Himalayan hills. In Bangalore, the [English] Mettur Industries have developed the silicon PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : I crystals but the purity was only 70%. would like to ask a question particularly to I would like to know from the hon. the Prime Minister on the basis of his experi- Minister what is the percentage of purity ence as a pilot. not as a pilot of the House developed indigenously of the silicon crystals but ·as a pilot of the aeroplane ! and what happened to the experiment of a MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Solar car running on solar cells for which money energy is connected with that I was given to the engineer in Ahmednagar of about Rs. 5 lakhs some time back. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Yes. It is connected with that ! SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: As far as the vehicle which can run on the solar I would like to know whether it is a energy is concerned, we have no information fact that in 1981 an aeroplane which was whether he has succeeded in Ahmednagar entirely fuelled by solar energy crossed the in producing the vehicle. But CEL Labora- English Channel successfully and. if it is so, tory scientists have been successful in pro- on the basis of the experience, will the ducing a 3-wheeler which can run with solar Government explore the possibility of energy. The energy which is available with the successfully using solar energy for flying the cells and with the material which is available aeroplanes. with us is so limited that we shaH have (Interruptions) to do something more to make it viable and usable by many persons. As far as the THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI RAJIV material produced locally is concerned, it is GANDHI) : I do not know whether the being examined and it is not possible for me year Prof. Madhu Dandavate has mentioned at this point of time to say what is the is correct but a plane did cross the percentage energy available from that . Channel, Ye5. material. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: 21st SHRI G. G. SWELL: . One way of November, 1981. converting sunshine into energy is tbe solar pond. I should think that there is a great SHRI RAJIV GANDHI : I will take deal of possibility in our coastal areas. your word for it !. I would like to know whether you have We can definitely look at it but solar done anything on those lines and what bave energy is a very new science. The amount of you done. . solar energy that can be collected today is still very very low in intensity and we are SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Solar looking at every aspect of developing solar energy is utilised in different forms. We can energy. We are first looking at those aspects utilise ir for making thermal energy, we can which will help our rural areas most and utilise it for creating electrical energy. As when it is time for our farmer to fly, we will for as utilisation of solar energy by creating examine it for fiying. ponds is concerned, this is being done ... PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: SHRI G. G. SWELL: Where? Solar energy is so powerful that the entire Government can be run with· the solar SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Experi- energy? ments are being carried in the coastal areas, but we have to do a lot many things before SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: We can help they really become useful on a commercial the Opposition with solar energy. They can scale. S.o, we are at the experimental stage. So and sit outside I In all fields we are at the experimental 25 OrcJ AnsWers Written Answers 26
stage and we would be able to reduce the SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : I have cost of the appliances which are being used answered with regard to the Central Govern- and we would be able to reduce the cost of ment. So far as the setting up of colour T.V. the materials which are being used. In the tube manufacturing unit is concerned, it Bhavnagar laboratory also, solar ponds are concerns to the State Government. I have not being experimented upqn and certain appli- got full information in regard to the state- ances are being made which can be used for ment of the then Deputy Minister Dr. this purpose. Sanjeevi Rao, but at present the position is that we have given permission to manufac- [Translation] ture T.V. sets in one or two Central Govern- S:;ltting up of C,)lour T.V. Unit in Eastern ment units. We have. permitted State U. P. Government undertakings to manufacture T.V. sets on large scale. These can be *574. DR. CHANDRA SHEKHAR manufactured in the joint sector as wen as TRIPATHI: Will the PRIME MINISTER in the private sector. The T.V. sets are be pleased to state : being manufactured on a large scale in U.P. (a) whether Government propose to set uptron is manufacturing 50,000 T.V. sets· and up a colour T.V. manufacturing unit in apart from that the private sector is also Eastern Uttar Pradesh soon; making T.V. sets. (b) if so, it., proposed location, .the DR. CHANDRA SHEKHAR name of unit to whom licence issued and TRIPATHI: The experts are of the view the time by which the factory is likely to be that the la'ier rays coming out of colour T.V. set up; and sets are m:Jre harmful than the rays coming out of b1..h;k a:1d white T.V. sets and they (c) the likely production capacity of the can cau<;c d'~;;omposition of the body, factory and the number of persons. likely to leubc:nia and blind::1ess. If this is true, then get employment therein? why is colour T.V. being encouraged? If it is being enccurat;cd what protective steps are [English] being taken by the Government in this THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE regard? MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- SHRI SH[VRAJ V .. PATIL: In regard LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS to the question of scientific implications OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC unless full facts are known to us we cannot ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS say whether it would be harmful to human (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): (a) Central eyes and the human body. It would not be Govern:nent has no proposal to set up any proper to create such a scare among the Colo~lr TV m'uluf;l:;taring unit in E:lstern people unless we have come to know all the Uttar Pradesh. facts. There are many benefits of colour (b) and (c). Do not arise. T.V. We can give information about plants to farmers on colour T.V. in a better way. [Translatioll] There are many things that can be explained DR. CHANDRA SHEKHAR TRIPATHI : through colour T.V. The Deputy Minister of Electronics, Food [English] and Supply of the Government of India, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : The Question Dr. M.S. Sanjeevi Rao, had announced on Hour is over. 2nd April, 1984 that under the T.V. expan- sion programme of the Government of India, a T.V. unit would soon be set up in eastern WRITTEN ANSWERS TO \J_UESTIONS U.P. He had further announced that out of the licences that had been issued for [English] manufacture of colour T.V. picture tubes, Payment of Instalment of Relief to one 'licence had been given to U.P. and this Pensioners by Cbandigarh factory which would cost Rs. 180 crores Administration would be set up very soon. I would like to *570. SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: know at which place this unit has been set Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be . up and what its production capacity is. pleased to state : , 27 Written Answers APRIL 24, 1985 Written Answres 28
(a) whether employees of the Union and other fora to press for the establishment Territory Administration of Chandigarh have of a Zone of Peace in the Indian Ocean. been sanctioned pension merging D.A. at [English] 320 index level; New Department for Pensioners (b) whether the same has not been given to retired employees of Union Territory *575. SHRI NARAYAN CHOUBEY: Administration of Chandigarh at the instal- Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to ments of relief to pensioners sin.:e 1 May, state : 1980, by the Administration; (a) whether Government are going to have a new department for pensioners; (c) if so, the reasons therefor; and (b) if so, what will be the fUl1ttions of (d) when the final decison is likely to this department; be taken in this regard ? (c) the name of the Ministry under THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS which it will function ? (SHRI S. B. CHAVAN) : (a) Yes, Sir. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (b) to (d). Relief in pension to the MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND pensioners of U.T. of Chandigarh from TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE- 1-9-1980 was sanctioned on 9-5-1984. FORMS AND PUBUC GRlEVANCES Funher relief in pension from 1-8-1983 has AND PENS[ON.AND IN THE DEPART- also been sanctioned on 19-4-1985. MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : (a) A new Department of Pension [ Translation] and Pensioners' Welfare has already been U.S. Military bases in Indian Ocean notified. (b) This will be a nodal Department *573. SHRI R. M. BHOYE: Will the entrusted with the task of framing policy Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be and other allied matters for expeditious/ pleased to state : timely disposal of cases relating to post (a) whether on the pretext of safeguard- retirement benefits for the Government ing its interests, the U.S.A. has s~nt a fleet employees and free10m fighter pensioners. with 30 military bases. 1500 warplanes, 80 (c) Ministry of Personnel and Training warships and three atomic submarines, in Administrative Reforms and Public Griev- the Indian Ocean; and ances and Pension. (b) if so, whether India and oth;;r countries have expressed views in this regard Resource mobilizati:m for Seventh Plan which would help in maintaining peace in *576. SHRI CHITTA MAHATA : Will this region and also in the world? the Minister of PLANNING be pleased to state : THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (a) whether Government have issued (SHRf KHURSHED ALAM KHAN): (a) any guidelines to the State Governments to While th~ US Government do not disclose mobilize resources for the Seventh Five Year the number of warships, planes and sub- Plan; and marines deployed by them in the Indian Ocean at any point of time, reports received by (0) if so, the details thereof and if not, us confirm til at the US continues to maintain the ,reasons therefor '? a large military presence in the Indian THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Ocean. MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. (b) A large number of countries, in NARAYANAN) : (a) and (b). Letters were particular those belonging to the Non- sent to aU the State Governments asking Aligned movement, have repeatedly expressed them to furnish estimates of financial ccncern at the increasing great power resources for the Seventh Plan 1985-90. In military presence in the Indian Ocean. this context reference was m3.de to the need Ind ia has played a leading role in the UN to ensure adequate provision for maintea- 29 Written Answers VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA.) Written AnS'~rs 30
ance, and to examine the potential and (c) whether the State G<>vemment has possibilities of additional resource mobi1isa~ been :>dvised to substitute contractors by tion. bullock-cart transport; and
Illegal Immigration of Pak Nationals (d) whether Government propose to create an apex federation for co-ordinating *571. SHRIV. SREENIVASA PRASAD: the transport work with the involvement of DR.' G. VIJAYA RAMA RAO : tribals ? Will the'Minister of HOME AFFAIRS THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI RAJIV be pleased to state : GANDHI): (a) The Central Board of (a) whether Government are aware that Forestry had recommended that all forms of due to large Scale i Iiegal immigration of Pak contract system in forestry operations should Nationals into Rajasthan an Assam-like~ be eliminated within the next three years situ_ation is arising in Rajasthan; positively. This has been circulated to the states for information and necessary action. (b) whether a number of extremists from Pakistan have also crossed over to Punjab (b) Part of the transportation of forest and Jammu and Kashmir during the recent produce is being done in Mldhya Pradesh past; and through transport contractors. (c) if so, the precautionary measures (c) All State Governments have been taken by Government in this regard ? advised that efforts should be made to engage bullock-carts for transportation of THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS forest produce. (SHRI S. B. CHA VAN) : (a) There are no reports to indicate that large scale infiltration (d) No such proposal is under the of Pak nationals into Rajasthan is taking consideration of the Central Government. place. Threat to Corbett National Park by Illegal (b) Some persons might have entered Encroachments surreptitiously from Pakistan. However, two *579. PROF. RAMKRISHNA MORE: extremists were arrested by BSF in August Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to 1984 in Rajasthan and one extremist in state: March 1985 in Punjab. All were handed over to the local Police. (a) whether it is a fact that illegal encroachments are posing grave threat to (c) Constant vigil is maintained by the the Corbett National Park; BSF on the border. Joint ambushes, raids and patrols with the local Police and other (b) if so, the details thereof; and preventive agencies are organized by BSF. (c) the steps being taken to remove the Dog-squads and mounted patrolling on encroachments ? camels have been pressed into service to intercept and apprehend illegal entrants. THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI RAJIV Observation towers have also been erected GANDHI) : (a) There ore no encroachments to watch movement of infiltrators. inside the Corbett National Park. (b) and (c). Do not arise. Contractor agency system in Forestry Operations Outlay for Kerala for Minimum Needs Programme *578. SHRI ARVIND NETAM: Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: *580. SHRI SURESH KURUP: WiIJ the Minister of PLANNING be pleased to (a) whether as a policy it has been state : decided to eliminate contractor agency system' from all forestry operations; (a) the agreed outlay for Kerala for Minimum Needs Programme in the Sixth (b) whether it is a fact that 'transport Plan (1980-85); contractors' are still operating in transporta- (b) expenditure during that period on tion of forest produce in Madhya Pradesh; different heads such as rural electrifkation. 31 Written MIllers APR.IL 24, 1985 Written Answers 32
rural roads, elementary education, adult MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. education, rural health, rural water supply, NARAYANAN) : (a) and (b). As State- rural house sites-cum-house construction ment showing the outlay for the Sixth Plan and improvement of slums and nutrition; and the anticipated level of expenditure on and the components of the Minimum Needs Programme in Kerala is placed on the Table (c) the Outlay for this purpose in the of the House. Seventh Plan ? (c) The Seventh Plan outlays are yet to lHE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE be finalised.
Statement
Minimum Needs Pr(lgramme if! Kerala (J980~85) (Rs. lakhs) ------_------Component of the Minimum Sixth Plan Expenditure Anticipated Total Needs Programme Outlays (1980-84) Exp. 1984-85 ------1. Elementary Education 1600 1075 228 1303 2. Adult Education 50 7 4 11 3. Rural Health 954 745 214 959 4. Rural Water Supply 4500 2343 762 3105 5. Rural Roads 1300 1854 360 2214 6. Rural Electrification* 7. Rural Housing House Sites cum- Construction Assistance 1200 691 239 930 8. Environment Improvement of Urban Slums 600 236 75 31 9. Nutrition 1400 ] 343 336 1639
------.-----~------Total 11604 8294 2218 10512
------_._,- ~-_ ---_- .---~-'---_--- .~.-_.------.- --_--_.--- -- *All villages electrified.
Negotiations with Assam Agitation (c) whether Union Government's pro· I.leaders posal has been widely accepted by the Assam *581. SHRI B. V. DESAI: Will the agitators; and Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased Cd) if so, by what time Government to state: expect the problem of foreign nationals to be (a) whether Centre is likely to take a resolved? fresh initiative 10 resume the negotiations with the Assam agitation leaders to resolve the THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS foreign nationals problem; (SHRI S. B. CHA V AN) : (a) 10 (d). During my recent visit to Shillong. a delegation of (b) if so, how many meetings took place the All Assam Students Union met me on between the Union Government and the the 28th March, 1985 at Raj Bhawan. agitators from th~ third week of March Following this, there was informal meeting Ql",v~r"isi between the Home S~retafY and the AASl.] VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAKA) Wriilen Answers ii
leaders on the 8th and 9th April, 1985, at THE MINISTER OF STA 1E IN THE Gauhati. These discussions were useful. MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND The Government are continui ng their efforts TRAINING. ADMINISTRATlVE RE- to find a just aad satisfactory solution. FORMS AND PUBLlC GRIEVANCES [Translation] AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH Disaster Warning Centre in Gujarat DEO) : (a) and (b). A Statement is laid on the Table of the House. *582. SHRI C. D. GAMlT : Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : Statement (a) whether the Gujarat Government have submit\ed a scheme to Union Govern. Every effort is made to complete the' ment for setting up of a Disaster Warning inVestigation in cases involving trap of a Centre in the State to monitor advance in- public servant while accepting bribe formation regarding cyclones and excc&s;"e within a period of six weeks after registration rainfalls; of the case. In other regular cases efforts are made to complete the investigation with~ (b) if so, the .details thereof, the places in a period of six months. However, in where these centres are proposed to be set many cases this period is exceeded for the up and the expenditure likely to be incurred following reasons : thereon; and (i) Delay in receipt of documents from various department/banks and other (c) the time by which sanction is likely public undertakings. to be accorded for setting them up and tbe action taken in this regard so far? (ii) The documents obtained are generally voluminious and it takes THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE time to scrutinise the same. MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS (iii) Large number of witnesses scattered OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC all over the country have to be ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS examined during the investigatiori of the cases. (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) Yes, Sir. (iv) Technical examination of tbe pro- (b) and (c). At present a disaster p~rty for the purpose of valuation. warning system is being implemented in coastal areas of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil (v) Obtaining export opinion of various Nadu on an experimental basis. A decision faculties. on the request of Gujarat Government will be taken after successful trial of the scheme in (vi) At times court issue injunction/slay these to States and the details will be worked orders stopping investigation. out at that time. (vii) In some cases investigation bas to [English} be conducted abroad.
Time taken by CBI in Investigation of (viii) Even after completion of investiga- Corruption Cases tion for prosecution before charge sheet can be filed. sanction has to *583. SHRI MOOL CHAND DAGA : be obtained from the concerned Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to departments. state : Reversion of Secretaries to their Cadre (a) how much time CBI normally takes after Expiry of Tenure in investigation of cases of corruption from *584. SHRI AMAL DATTA: Will the the date of detection till the charge sheet is PRIME MINrsTER be pleased to state : field in the Court; and (b) the reasons for delay in cases where (a) whether Government have taken a the time taken is more than three months decision that no Secretary or Joint Secretary during the last to years ? of the Government of India shall be given 3S Written Answers APRIL 24. 1985 Written An~ Wers 36 exten"ion of service after superannuation or considered at a conference of Chief Ministers on the completion of his tenure or contract held· at New Delhi in June, 1979 and a term: general consensus was reached on the imple. mentation of the recommendations. Reports (b) the number of Secretaries of the received from the State Governments/UT Government of India whose tenure/contr::lct Administrations indicate that appropriate term expires before the end of the current follow up action has been taken on the Session of Lok Sabha; and first report. The principal recommendations (c) whether they all will be reverted back which have generally been implemented by to their own cadre after expiry of their most of the States relate to the following tenure/contract term ? subjects : THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (i) Working conditions of policemen. MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND (ii) Police Housing programmes. TRAINING.. ADMINISTRATIVE RE- FORMS . AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES (iii) Status of the Constabulary, 10- AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- eluding Allowances. MENT OF .CULTURE (SHRI K. P. (SINGH DEO): (a) Instructions have been (iv) Inquiries into complaints against issued that tenures of officers in the Central policemen. Secretariat should not be extended and that (v) Abolition of Orderly System. the trend of extending the service of Government servants beyond the age of . (vi) Machinery for redressal of grie- superannuation or seeking re-employments vances of policemen. for them should be reversed. However, officers. appoinied on a contract basis, are With regard to the remaining 7 reports not covered under these instructions. of the Commission, the replies so far received from the State Governments, , . (b) and (c). One officers holding the post indicate that the Governments of Assam~ ~f Secretary to the Government will retire on Maharashtra and Orissa have taken appro .. superannuation, and the term of contract of priate action on most of the recommendations. another will expire before the end of the The Government of Madhya Pradesh is also current Session of the Lok Sabha. These reported to have implemented a number of cases will be governed by the existing policy rc~omendations. however, that Government on the subject. feeis that a few recommendations having Implementation of Recommendations of substantial financial implications. like pro- National Police Commission by States vision of housing will be implemented by that State in a phased manner, keeping in *585. SHRI K. RAMAMURTHY : Will view the constraint of resources. The the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased Governments of Andhra Pradesh, Gujarat, to state: Haryana, Karnataka, Nagaland, Punjab. (a) whether any follow-up action has Tamil Nadu, Uttar Pradesh and UTs of been taken to find out whether the Reports Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Delhi, of the National Police Commission forwarded Mizoram and Pondicherry have constituted to the State Governments/Union Territory committees/cells to go into the reports and Administrations have been considered and give recomendations. acted upon by them; and Self-Sufficiency in Producing Heavy Water (b) if so, the principal recommendations *586. SHRI PRATAP BHANU of the Commmissjon which have been imple- SHARMA: Will the PRIME M1NISTER mented by the State Governments/Union be pleased to state : Territories Administrations ? (a) whether India is expected to ' he THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS self-sufficient in producing indigeneous heavy (SHRI S. B. CHAVAN) : (a) Yes, Sir. water to meet the requirement of atomic power plants by 2000 AD; (b) National Police Commission sub- mjtt~d 8. repotts, Th~ first report W~$ (b) if so, the details thereof; and VAISAKHA '4, (907 (SAKA) Written Answers 38
(c) the effective stepes taken in t\lis the Central Department of. Tourism for the regard? replacement of a motor launch acquired in 1974 with central funds and serving as a THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE ferry between Kanyakumari and Vivekanand MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- Roel· Memorial. This proposal has been LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF approved in principle by the Department and OCEAN DEVELOPMENT. ATOMIC is under processing. ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) Yes, Sir. Scientific Train ing for Sportsmen 4146. SHRIMATI MADHURI SINGll: (b) and (c). Besides the existing heavy WiIJ the Minister of YOUTH AFFAIRS water production plants at Nangal, AND SPORTS be pleased to state: Baroda, Turicorin, Kota and Talcher, Government have taken steps to arugment (a) whether the Soviet Sports experts the installed' capacity for heavy water who visited India recently, had emphasized production by setting up of new plants the need for scientific training for our to meet the demand for heavy water from sportsmen; and the nuclear power stations. Work on a 110 (b) if so, the datails thereof and the tonnes/yr heavy water plant at Thal-Vaishet reaction of the Government thereto ? in Maharashtra and a 185 tonnes/yr heavy water plant at Manuguru in Andhra Pradesh THE MJNISTER OF STATE IN THE is in progress at a rapid rate. Work on DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH AFFAIRS further additional plants will be initiated at AND SPORTS (SHRI R. K. JAICHANDRA the appropriate time. SINGH) : (a) Yes, Sir.
Promotion of Kanyakumari as Tourist (b) The Soviet experts have recommended Centre illter alia that physical conditioning and application of biD-mechanics. sports psycb9- *587. SHRI N. DENNIS : Will the logy and other allied sports sciences for Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL 'grooming of Indian sportsmen and women. AVIATION be pleased to state: They have also suggested that due 'attention (a) the details of the plans for adoption should be paid to the promotion of sports at and promotion of Kanyakumari is a Tourist grass root levels. Government agrees in Centres; principle to the above recommendations. (b) whether the Tamil Nadu Government Implementation of Centrally Sponsored have sent any proposal in this regard; and Schemes in Bibar (c) if so, the details thereof? 4147. SHRI C. P. THAKUR: Will the Minister of PLANNING be pleal>ed to THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE state: MINISTR Y OF TOURISM AND CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): (a) whether Union Government monitor (a) to (c). The Department of Tourism in the implementation of schemes given to the consultation with the State Government has States; identified 16 places of tourist interest in the State of Tamil Nadu for phased development (b) if so, whether Centrally sponsor,ed by the Centre, the State and the private schemes remained unimplemented in Bihar sector. Kanyakumari is one of the Centres. . during 1984-85; The Government of Tamil Nadu has (c) whether Government have any imp- prepared'a master plan for the integrated lementation and progress monitoring cell; development of Kanyakumari at an estimated and cost of Rs. 16.00 crores for phased imple- (d) if not, whether Government have mentation over a period of 10 years. Schemes any proposal to start one ? amounting to Rs. 332.00 lakhs are already under implc;nentation through various State THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE departmental agencies since 1982. In MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. addition, the State Government has requested NARY ANAN) : (a) Yes, Sir. , ! . ~, . 39 Written An.swer~ APJUL 24.1985'
(b) No. Sir. , (d) the efforts made to fill up the reser- ved posts now falling vacant ? (c) Central Ministries administering Centrally Sponsored Schemes have either THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE monitoring cells or other arrangements. for MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL revi~ing/monitoring Centrally Sponsored AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOn: Schemes. PIa'lOing Commission has a 20- (a) The required information is given at Point Programme Cell which monitors on a Statement I attached. monthly and quarterly basis all the schemes (b) As per ITDC Recruitment and comming under the 20-point Programme Promotion Rules. she minimum period pre- which includes some Centrally Sponsored scribed for eligibility for promotion from ScbCnles also. one grade to another is between 3 to 6 (d) Does not arise. years. Resenation for SC/ST in ITDC (c) The required information is given at Statement II attached. 4148. SHRI LAL DUHO~A: Will the, Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL (d) Every effort is made by ITDC to fiD AVIATION be pleased to state: up the reserved vacant posts. These include : (i) contacting employment exchange wheJ'e (a) the total number of posts reserved suitable SC/ST candidates are not . becomiQl for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes available; (ii) notifying reserved posts to and tlle Total number of such posts lying SC/ST associations and other such agenci~s; vacant in each scale of pay under Group 'A'. (iii) issuing advertisements in leading news- 'D' and 'C' in ITDC; papers inviting applications from SCjST candidates; (iv) relaxing prescribed criteria (b) the minimum requirement prescribed (qualifications, experience etc) for selection for filling up such vacancies by promotion in favour of SC/ST candidates and (v) pro- under Group ·A' and 'B'; viding employment opportunities to (c), tbe length of service of three senior SC/ST candidates through their induction as most officials belonging to SC and ST under apprentices, J"nior Executive Trainees. Hotel variO'!lS scales of pay in 'A' and 'B' Groups; Operation Trainees etc in various botel aDd ' trades.
Statement I
State~nt showing total number of posts reserved for SC and ST. number of employees belonging to SCIST, taken against reserved posts and ihe vacant posts carriedforward Groups 'A' • 'B' and 'C' in ITDC during the year 1984 in reply to part (a) of Lok Sabha. Unstarred Question No. 4148 for 24-4-1985. Part-q Posts FUled by Direct Recruitment
Total No. of Posts Sl. Class of Reserved for --Taken Carried Forward No. Post SC ST SC ST SC ST
1. Group, 'A' 24 8 16 2 8 6 2. Group 'B'
3. Group 'C' 24 8 19 1 7 : 41 rvritten Answers VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA) Writ/In Answers 42.
Part-II Po.,.ts Filled. by Promotion
Total No. of Posts S1. Class of Reserved for Taken Carried Forward No. Post SC ST SC ST SC ST
1. Group 'A' 2 1 1 2. Group'S' 1 1
3. Group ~,C' 9 4 5
Statement II Statement showing the length of service of three senior most officials in ITDC ,belonging to SC and ST under varioliS scales o/pay i."l Groups 'A' and 'R'in reply 10 Part (D) ofLok Sabha Unstarred Question No. 4148 for 24-4-1985.
Name of the post Scale of Pay Number of senior-most Length of service Rupees" officials available in in years (approx.) the grade SC. ST
1 2 3 4 5 1. General Manager (Engg.) 1800-2250 1 1. Offg. General Manager 1500-2000 1 (MM and D)
2. Dy. General Manager (Ales) 1 " 1 3. Dy. General Manager (E and M) " 1 Less than one year 1. Sr. Manager (M and D) 1300-1700 1 3 2. Sr. Manager (C and C) 1 " 3 3. Sr. Manager (E and M Engg.) 1 " 2 4. Sr. Manager (Engg. Civil) " 1 5I- 1. Manager (C and C) 1100-1600 1 3l 2. Manager (Engg. Civil) " 3 1 to 6l 3. Manager (Engg. E and M) t, 2 1 1 to 4! 4. Manager (MS) " 1 4! 1. Asstt. Manager (P) 700-1300 1 4 2. Asstt. Manager (C and C) 1 " 5 3. Internal Audit Officer 1 " 5 4. Asstt. Manager (Ales) " 1 5 5. Asstt. Manager (Engg. Civil) ", 3 5! to 9 6. Asstt. Manager (E and M) .. 2 1 5! to 61 7. Asstt. Pvt. Secretary .. 1 2 'Written An,_S -4,4
1 2 3 4 5 8. Manager (DFS) .. 1 It 1. Senior P. A. 650-1040 1 2 1. P. A. 550-900 3 Ii to 3 2. Sr. Asstt. 2 2 to 4 " 3. Accountant 3 2 to 5 " 4. Sr. Receptionist 1 2 "
Note: In certain disciplines, 3 SC/ST Officers are not available. Therefore, in such disciplines, particulars, of less than 3 SC/ST Officers have been mentioned in the above statement. (a) whether Articles 29 and 30 of the Memorandum from All India Urdu Press Constitution allows the Minority Commu- Correspondents Association, Patna nities to run and administer their educational 4149. SHRI ABDUL HANNAN institutions; ANSARI; Will the Minister of HOME (b) if so, whether Government are satis- AFFAIRS be pleased to state: fied with the performance of such institutions; (a) whether President, All India Urdu Press Correspondents' Associa~ions, Danapur (c) if not, whether Government have Cantt., Patna, Bihar has submitted a noticed some cases of interference in the memorandum on 8 March, 1985 to Prime affairs of these institutions and propose to Minister regarding problems of minority improve their condition by bringing forth community and other Dlatters; suitable amendments in the Constitution; and (b) if so, the details thereof; and (d) the recommendations, if any, in the (c) action taken by Government Minorities Commission Report in this thereon ? regard ?
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- MINISTR Y OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) to (c). MATI RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) Yes, Prime Minister"s Office received a re- Sir. presentation dated 7th March,' 1985 from the President, All India Urdu Press Corres- (b) and (c). In addition to the consti- pondents Association, Patna regarding tutional safeguards to the minority educa- allegations of corruption in Bihar Public tional institutions, the Organisation of the Service Commission with reference to an Commissioner -for Linguistic Minorities individual case of a lady who had appeared in terms of Article 350-8 of the Constitution at the 30th Combined Competitive Exami- and the Minorities Commission are intrusted, nation held by Bihar Public Service Commis- inter-alia with safeguarding educational sion in 1982 and was allegedly denied a interests of the minorities and for post reserved for ladies. The representation preventing any undue interference in the was forwarded to Government of Bihar for functioning of these institutions. The exis~ing inquiry and necessary action. provisions/arrangements are considered adequate for this purpose. Performance of Institutions rUD by Minority CommUDities (d) The Minorities Commiss~on have" not 4150. SHRI JAGANNATH PATTNAIK : made any specific recommendation regarding Wi11 the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be functioning of educational minority institu- pleased to state : tions in this context. 45 Written Answers VAISAK.HA 4~ 1907 (SAKA) Written Ans~er.s 46
Roy Enquiry Commission Repart on has been a marginal increase in air pollution Ral"'gat Firing Case in Doon ValJey. Investigations by Medica) 4151. SHRI MANORANJAN BHARTA : Authorities regarding incidence of respiratory Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be and skin diseases will, however, take some pleased to state : time.
(a) whether after submi~sion of report (b) The Government has taken following by the Roy Enquiry Commission on Rangat steps: firing case in the Union Territory of A and (i) Setting up of Industrial Units in N Islands, Polic'e have registered cases Doon Valley is being regulated with against large number of respectable citizens a ban on major air pollution including senior Government officials in order industries; to harass th~m. If so, the names of such persons; and (ii) Steps are being-taken as per the Provisions of Air (Prevention and (b) when the FIR was lodged against Control of Pollution) Act, 1981 to these people, the date when charge-sheet was control air pollution in the existing submitted and the IPC/Cr PC sections industries; involved? (iii) New industrial units are being THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE dispersed as per a regional Master MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- Plan. MATI RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) No, Sir. No case relating to the Rangat firing (c) The Kuanwala distillery is discharg- incident has been registered after the ing untreated effluents into Song River. submission of the Report of the Enquiry Mahasir fish has not became extinct. Commission. (b) Does not arise. (d) The Uttar Pradesh Population Con- trol Board is taking legal action against the [Translation] distillery under the Provisions of the Water (Prevention and Control of Pollution) Act, "PoHution in Doon Valley." 1974. 4152. SHRI PIYUS TIRAKY : Will the [English] PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state :
(a) whether pollution hazard is on the Submission of Audited Accounts of Departmental Canteen of Sardar increase in Ooon Valley as a result of which Patel Bhawan people are suffering from many diseases, particularly respiratory and skin diseases and 4153. SHRI O. L. BAITHA: Will the 20 per cent of the children in the age group Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL of below ten years are suffering from res- AVIATION be pleased to state : piratory trouble: (a) whether the Managing Committee of (b) if so, the steps taken by Government Sardar Patel Bhawan Departmental Canteen in this regard; has not been submitting their audited acco- (c) whether it is also a fact that effluents unts since 1978; of the Kuawaia Distillery situated 12 Kilo- (b) if so, the action taken by Govern- metres away from Oehradun is being dis- ment against this violation; charged in the Song river as a result to which the famous Mahsir fish is no the (c) whether his Ministry has been giving extinct; and subsidies to the said canteen in gross viob- tion of the rules; (d) whether Government propose to close this distillery ? (d) if so, whether any inquiry is proposed to be made to fix the resposibilHy; THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE and MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) (a) There (e) if not. the reasons therefor '/ Written Answers 48
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Statement MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL 1. A programme for the setting up of AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOn: four 500 KW wind farms was (a) to (e). The audited accounts of the taken up and orders have Sardar Patel Bhawan Departmental Canteen been placed for the wind electric genera- upto the year 1977-78 have been received. The Managing Committee of the Canteen tors. In addition a few wind battery have finalised the accounts for the years chargers were also installed for field testing. 1978-79 and 1979-80 which ar~ pending audit. The accounts for the year 1980-81 2. In the integrated energy project in could not be finalised due to the retirement Salojipally village, Medak district of of the Internal Auditor of th~ Canteen who Andhra Pradesh a central solar was handling cash and maintaining the photovoltaic power plant of capa- accounts also for some time. The relevant city 7.3 KWe (peak) was set up records etc. have not been handed over by and a solar thermal power generat- the Auditor to the Canteen authorities. The ing system of capacity 22 KWe Managing Committee have already served a (peak) is nearing completion. filfal notice on him on 2.3.1985 for handing over the documents, etc. for the year 1980- 3. Other biomass, biogas, and solar 81. The accounts for subsequent years are photovoitaic based units capable of upto date but awaiting finalisation of 1980- generating small amounts of power 81 accounts. However, the Managing Com- for decentralised applications in mittee have decided to proceed with the various Rural Renewable Energy finalisation of the accounts for the subse- Systems have also been set uP. in- quent years pending finalisation of the cluding biomass based units of 25 accounts for the year 1980-81. The Go~ern to 100 KW; larger size plants have ment have been sanctioning subsidies to the also been planned. canteen as non-payment of it would have 4. A refuse incineration plant using dislocated the functioning of the canteen and 300 Tonnes city garbage and caused distres'i to its employees. producing 3.74 MW of power is being set up a Delhi. Additional Sources of Energy 5. 50 K W power unit based on line 4154. SHRI K. PRADHANI : Will the focussing solar collectors designed PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: by DNES for which procurement of equipment is in progress. (a) the amount provided to the Commis- sion· for Additional sources of energy during 6. A central solar photovoltaic power the Sixth Plan; pllnt of 900 We (peak) has been (b) the various projects implemented by set up in the RRES project in the Commission for additional sources Accheja village, Ghaziabad district of energy to generate addtional power; and of Uttar Pradesh. (c) the details thereof? 7. Two micro hyde] projects are nearing completion at JUbbal THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (150 KW) and Manali (200 KW) MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- in Himachal Pradesh. These micro LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF hydel projects are based on low OCEAN DEVELOPMENT.. ATOMIC cost technology with electronic ENERGY. SPACE AND ELECTRONICS controls to enable operation with- (SHRI SHIVRAJV. PATIL) : (a) An amount out regular manning. of Rs. 152 crores had been provided to the commission for Additional Sources of Energy 8. A pilot plant for MHD power during tbe Sixth Plan for development and generation has just been completed utilisation of non-conventional sources of at Tiruchirapalli. The pllint. is energy including biogas. raled at 5 MW (tbermal input); it (b) ~nd (c). A $t~tem~nt is attached. is not yet genera ting power. 49 Written Answel's . VAISAKHA 4, 1901 (SAKA) Written Answers SO
Strength of IPS Officers be obtained for opening the branch store 4155. SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS of the Kendriya Bhandar as well as a Fair MUNSI: Will the Minister of HOME Price Shop. AFFAIRS be pleased to state: Night Landing Facility at Aurangabad (a) the total strength of IPS officers in Airport the country as on 31 January, 1985; 4157. SHRI VUAY N. PATIL: Will (b) how many of th~m have been killed the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL on their duty during the last three years and A VIATION be pleased to state : in which States; and (a) whether Government propose to (c) what action has been taken to detain introduce night landing facilities at Auransa- and punish the culprits? bad Airport; and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (b) if so, the details thereof? MiNISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- MATI RAM DULARI SlNHA): (a) to (c). THE MINISTER OF STATE, IN THE The requisite information is being collected MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL from the State Governments and will be laid AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): on the Table of the House on receipt. (a) No, Sir. Opening of a Kendriya Bhaodar Branch (b) Does not arise. in Pushp Vihar, New Delhi [Translation] 4156. SHR[ RAM PUJAN PATEL: DeTelopment of Eastern U.P. Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: 4158. SHRI ZAINUL BASHER: Will the Minister of PLANNING be pleased to (a) whether representations are being state: received by the General Manager.· Central Government Employees Consumer Coope- (a) whether Government propose to pay rative Society Ltd., New Delhi, for opening some special attention to the development of a Branch of their society, i.e., Kendriya of Eastern Uttar Pradesh in the Seventh Five Bhandar in Sector-IV of the Pushp Vihar, Year Plan; New Delhi (a Central Government Em- ployees residential colony); (b) if so, the details thereof; and (b) whether representations are being (c) if not, the reasons therefor? received by the General Manager of the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE society for opening of a Fair Price Shop in MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. that area also; and NARAYANAN) : (a) and (b). The responsj- (c) if so, the action taken SO far on bility for developing a region within a State is such representations and when Government primarily that of the State Government propose to open Kendriya Bhandar as weJI concerned. The Uttar Pradesh Government as Fair Price Shop in that area to give bene- has outlined its strategy for accelerated fit of this Society to the Central Government development of the Eastern Region during employees residing there? the VII Plan in the draft Plan document submitted to the Planning Commission. This THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE includes inter alia tbe following MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAIN- IN.G, ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS AND (0 taking up special programmes for • PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PENSION increasing the productivity of small AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF and marginal farms; CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : (a) and (b). Yes, Sir. A representation has (ii) increasing the productivity of rise been resently received in April, 1985. and other agricultural products by providing adequate inputs etc.; (c) The matter is being examined in consultation with the Ministry of works and (iii) extension of research facilities in Housing so that suitable accommodation can oilseeds and pulses; 51 Written A.nswers APRIL 24"J98S Written A.nswen . 52
(iv) preparation and phased implemen- statements so far prepared and laid before tation of a master plan for Parliament; reducing flood damages on a pennanent basis; (c) whether earlier practice was to lay such statements of action taken on the (v) massive programme of providing Table of both the House of Parliament but minor irrigation works; later on these statements were simply placed in Parliament Library for the information of {vi) reclamation of usar-Iand in an Members; integrated way; (d) if so, the reasons for such a change; (vii) adoption of moisture· preserving and technologies and dryland farming (e) whether any document can be placed in the drought prone areas; in Parliament Library by Government before being laid on the Table of the (viii) creation of employment opportuni- House ? ties by developing large and medium industries and encouraging THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE village and cottage industrial MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- pursuits; MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) Action Taken Statements on 26 Reports of the (ix) large scale construction of roads Commissioner for SCs and STs have been and bridges; placed in the Parliament Library. (x) tribal development programme for (b) Question does not arise. the denotified tribes of Gonda and Mirzapur districts; (c) and (d). Action taken Statements on the Reports of the Commissioner for (xi) programme for eradication of illite- SCs and STs are always being placed in the racy especially female illiteracy; Parliament Library. and (e) Yes, Sir. (xii) nutrition programme for women Murders, Dacoities and Robberies in and children. Delhi The Central Government also provides 4161. SHRI KALI PRASAD PANDEY: special assistance fOf development of desig- Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be nated backward areas in a State like pleased to state : drought prone areas and tribal areas. (a) in how many cases of murders, Investment subsidy and concessional finance dacoities and robberies held in Delhi during are also provided for accelerating the indust- 1984-85, the culprits have been apprehended; rial development of industrially backward and districts within a State. (b) steps taken to improve the image of (c) Does not arise. the police in the minds of the common man? (English] THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Laying of action taken report on the MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- Tahle of Parliament MAT! RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) The 4159. SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS : number of caseS of murders, dacoities and Will be Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be robberies committed 'in Delhi during the pleased to state : year 1984 and 1985 (upto 31-3-85) are given below: . (a) whether the statement of action taken on the recommendations of the Commis- Cases Worked Persons sioner of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled reported out arrested. Tribes have been regularly placed in Parlia- Murder 379 237 679 ment on all the 27 Reports so far presented 19 83 by the Commissioner; Dacoity 37 Robberies 302 159 361 (b) if SOt the dates of-pla~nts of the .. - ~-1' 53 Written Answers VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answ$'s ··54
(b) The following steps were taken to Statemeat detect crim es : S. No. Name of Place 1. Intensive foot and mobile patrolling 1. Delhi including armed patrolling with walkie/talkie sets and wireless fitted 2. Bombay motor cy~les. 3. Madras 2. Action under the normal preventive 4. Agra section of Cr. P. C. against bad 5. Jaipur characters and criminals. 6. Varanasi 3. Continuous drives by the Special Squads of the Districts to detect 7. Calcutta dacoits, robbers and other bad 8. Banglore characters by developing intelligence. 9. Srinagar 4. Surprise checking of vehicles to detect those involved in commission 10. Goa of crime. 11. Madhurai 5. Organisation of Thikri Pehra and 12. Amritsar patrolling by local residents and private chowkidars in co-ordination 13. Trivandrum. Kovalam with police patrol pickets. 14. Rameshwaram 6. Strengthening of surveillance ever 15. Hyderabad known criminals. 16. Udaipur 7. Co-ordination meetings with the 17. TrichirapalIi police authorities of neighbouring states are periodically held to dis- 18. Mysore cuss and solve the problems arising 19. Khajuraho out of the activities of the extre- mists and other criminals. 20. Cochin 21. Pune Main places of Tourists Attraction 22. Aurangabad 4162. SHRI V. SOBHANADREES- 23. W ARA RAO ~ Will the Ministet of Patna TOURISM. AND CIVIL AVIATION be 24. Ahmadabad pleased to state the main places of attrac- tion for the foreign visitors/tourists in the 25. Pondicherry country ? 26. Darjeeling THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 27. Jodhpur MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL 28. AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): Ootacamund The statistics of international tourists visiting 29. Leh India are compiled by the department of Tourism on an All-India basis and not place- 30. Chandigarh wise. However, as per the Foreign Tourists Survey of India 1982-83 conducted by 31. laisalmer Indian Statistical Institute, Calcutta, there 32. Lucknow are 59 major places visited by Foreign tourists shown in the statement attached. 33. Simla Written An.rwe~ " "'rUUIJ A.nva"& 56
S. No. Name of Place ExpansioD of Nehru Yuyak K.eDdra. 4163. PROF. NARAIN CHAND 34. Mahabalipuram PARASHAR : Will the Minister of 35. Ladakh YOUTH AFFAIRS AND SPORTS be pleased to state : 36. Haridwar (a) whether aU district headquarters of 37. Kanyakumari the country have been covered by the 38. Pushkar Nehru Yuvak Kendras; (b) if not, the names of such districts 39. Dehradun as still remain to be covered and the likely 40. Mount Abu date by which every district headquarter of the country would be covered at the end of 41. Bhubaneshwar tbis year; 42. Puri (c) whether it is also proposed to pro- 43. Tanjore vide liberal funds to these Kendras in the International Year of the Youth; and 44. Coimbatore (d) if so, a brief outline of the new 45. Dharamsala activities proposed to be undertaken by these Kendras during the year 1 46. Nagapattinam THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 47. Quilon DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH AFFAIRS 48. Baroda AND SPORTS (SHRI R. K. JAICHADRA SINGH) : (a) No, Sir. 49. AlJeppey (b) So far 197 districts have been SO. Ajmer covered by Nehru Yuvak Kendras as per statement attached. The ramaining districts Ganeshpuri 51. are likely to be covered during Seventh Five 52. Manali Year Plan. 53. Mangalore (c) Yes, Sir. 54. Kodaikanal (d) The activities of Nehru Yuvak Kendras including new ones are, inter-alia, 55. Surat vocational training programmes; sports, 56. Gaya-Bodhgaya games and physical culture; youth leadership training programme; recreational and cult- 57. Ranchi ural activities; non-formal education; social service programmes; promotion of National 58. Bhopal Integration and observance of the Inter- 59. Gorakhpur national Youth Year.
Statemant
51. No. Name of the State Districts in which Nehru Yuvak Kendras have been functional
1 2 3
1. Andhra Pradesh 1. Chittoor 2. Cuddapah 3. Kakinada ~ ~, : J" , , $"1 ~'''-''. VAISAkHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) ,Written "'",weN $~ 1 2 3 4. Karimnagar S. Nizamabad 6. Siddipet 7. Srikakulam 8. Krishna 9. Guntur 10. Mohboobnagar 11. Kurnool 12. Khammam 13. Anantpur 14. Visakhapatnam 2. Assam 1. Dibrugarh 2. Gauhati 3. Silchar 4. Tezpur 5. Nowgong 6. Goalpara 7. Karbi Anglong 8. North Lakhimpur 3. Bihar 1. BhagaJpur 2. Hehal (Ranchi) 3. M uzzaffarpur 4. Monghyr
5.· Patoa 6. West Champaran 7. Purnea 8. Chapra 9. Sabarsa 10. Nalanda 11. Darbbaoga 12. Bhojpur 13. Palamau
4. Gujarat 1. Bhuj 2. Junaaarh ApiuL 24. i9b
1 2 3
3. Sunmdranagar 4. Nadia
5. Mehsana
6. Himatnagar
S. Haryana 1. Kamal 2. Gurgaon 3. Bhiwani 4. Rohtak 6. Himachal Pradesh 1. Cbamba 2. Hamirpur 3. Solan 4. Una , 5. Kulu 6. Bilaspur 7. Kangra (Dharamshala) 8. Kinnaur
7. Jammu and Kashmir 1. Kathua
8. Kamataka 1. Belgaum 2. Bagalkot 3. Chikmagalur 4. Gulbarga S. Hassan 6. Mysore 7. Coors
8. Mandya 9. Mangalore 10. North Kanara (Karwar) 11. Bidar 12. Raichur
9. KeraJa 1. Trivandrum 2. Cannanore
3. Trichur · VAJ~AKHA'4, 1907 (SAKA) Written An3Wers 62
1 2 3
4. Alleppey 5. Idukki 6. Malapuram 7. Palgbat 8. Kozhikode
10. Madhya Pradesh 1. Betul 2. Chattarpur 3. Dewas 4. Gwalior S. Jabalpur 6. Jashpumagar (Raigarh) 7. Kankar 8. Sehore 9. Shajapur 10. Durg
11. Hoshangabad 12. Dhar 13. Shivpuri 14. Indore 15. Jhabua
II. Maharashtra 1. Aurangabad 2. Yeotmal 3. Ja1gaon
12. Manipur 1. Irnphal 2. Manipur North Diitrict (Senapati)
13. Meghalaya 1. Tura 2. laintia Hills
~4. Nagaland 1. Mokokchuna 2. Kohirna 15. Orissa 1. Baripada 2. Dhenkanal 3. Koraput 63 Wri'/M .4Iuw",.. APRIL 24. 1985
1 2 3
4. Sarnbalpur 5. Sundergarh 6. Ganjarn 7. Kalahandi 8. Phutbani 9. Keonjhar 10. Balangir
16. Punjab -1. Ferozpur 2. Rupnagar (Ropar) 3. Sangrur 4. Gurdaspur 5. Faridkot 6. Hoshiarpur 7. Arnritsar 8. Patiala 9. Kapurthala 10. Ludhiana 17. Rajasthan 1. Banner 2. Bundi 3. ChufU 4. Dungarpur S. Jaipur ·6. Tonk 7. Chittorgarh
8. Jodhpur
-9. Sawai Madhopur 10. Ajrner 11. Bharatpur 12. Udaipur B. Banswara 14. Bikaner 1-5. Jaisalrner
1"6, Bhilw~ra. 65 Wrillen Answers VATSAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answerf 66
1 2 3
I:. Jalore
18. Sikkim l. Gangtok
19. Tamil Nadu l. Cuddalore 2. Salem 3. Tiruchirapalli 4. Vellore 5. Ramnathapuram 6. Puddukotai 7. Coimbatore 8. Madurai 9. Dharampuri 10. Nilgiris
20. Tripura 1. Agartala 2. Dharamnagar
21. Uttar Pradesh 1. Azamgarh 2. Banda 3. Dehradun 4. Deoria 5. Jhansi 6. Mathura 7. Mirzapur 8. Pratapgarh 9. Pithoragarh 10. Rai Bareilly 11. Gcrakhpur
12. Rampur
13. Faizabad 14. Aligarh 15. AJmora 16. Bijnor
17. Meerut 18. Sitapur 19. Varanasi 67 Written Ans.... ers APRIL 24. 1985 Written Answers 68
1 2 3
20. Allahabad 21. Fatehpur
22. Ghazipur
23. Pauri Garwal 24. Sultanpur 25. Unnao
26. Farrukhabad 27. Lakhimpur-Kr.eri 28. Badaun
22. West Bengal 1. Barasat 2. Burdwan 3. Darjeeling 4. Midnapore 5. Murshidabad 6. Diamond Harbour 7. Alipurduar
8. Puru1ia
23. Arunachal Pradesh 1. Along 2. Ziro
24. Andaman and Nicobar Islands 1. Port Blair
25. Chandigarh 1. Chandigarh
26. Delhi 1. Alipur 2. Mehrauli (New Delhi) 3. Nangloi Block (New Delhi)
27. Goa, Daman and Diu 1. Panaji 2. Daman
28. Lakshdweep 1. Kavaratti
29. Mizoram 1. Aizwal
30. Pondicherry 1. Pondicherry
31. Dadra and Nagar Havelli 1. Silvasa " . 69 Wrillen Answers VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 70
Deputation of Officers of All India April, 1985. Business negotiations conducted Services to Delhi Municipal at this forum are likely to generate greater Corporation tourist traffic to India. 4164. SHRI RAM SAMUJHAWAN : . Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be Registration for Mining in Ocean pleased to state : 4166. SHRI BRAJAMOHAN (a) the particuhrs of Officers of the MOHANTY : Will the PRIME MINISTER various All-India Services such as 1ndian be pleased to state . Administrative Service and Indian Revenue Service at present on deputation to the (a) whether India is an a pplicant for Municipal Corporation of Delhi, the posts registration for mining in the Ocean as a held and pay (including Deputation or pioneer investor and clearance from the law Special Pay) and allowances drawn by them; of the Sea Commission is awaited; and and (b) if so, full details thereof including .,b) their intial tenure and in which of the particulars of mining ? the ca~es it had been extended once, twice and thrice and the reasons for the same ? THE MIN1S fER OF STATE IN THE MINISTR Y OF SCIENCE TECHNOLOGY THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS OF MINISTRY.OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC ,M,ATI. RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) A ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS . ,'st~tement is laid on the Table of the House. (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) Yes Sir, [Placed in Library. See No. L.T. 1093/85] India as a pioneer investor, has filed -an application with the Preparatory Commission (b) The recruitment regulations of the of the International Sea-bed Authority and Municipal Corporation of Delhi provide for of the Law of the Sea Tribunal, for registra- varying tenures ranging from 3 to 5 years in tion of a mine site in the Central Indian respect of different posts as indicated in the Ocean. The decision of the Preparatory statement at annexure. In no case the tenure Commission is awaited. has been extended beyond prescribed period. (b) After a survey of nearly 4 million Package Tours to attract Foreign Tourists square kilometres in the Indian Ocean, two mining sites, each of ] 50,000 sq. km. have 4165. SHRI N. DENNIS: Will the been identified. These sites fully meet the Minister of TOUR1SM AND CIVIL standards which have been prescribed A VIAnON be pkased to state: internationally, such as, the density of nodules per square metre and the topper, (a) whether a new form of selling nickel and cobalt contents of the nodules. ,package tours have been decided to be Research and Development work at the operated when a 'traval mart' will be set up mining sites is going on smoothly. by Indian Tour Operators Association in a bid to attract foreign tourists to the country; Elephants Killed for Ivory Tusks and 4167. SHRI SR1KANTA DATTA (b) if so, the details thereof? NARASIMHARAJA WADJYR: Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 'MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL (a) whether elephants are kiJIed for AVIATION (SHR1 ASHOK GEHLOn: extraction of ivory tusks : (a) and (b). A "Travel Mart" is a forum ·which enables buyers and sellers/suppliers in (b) the action proposed to be taken to travel trade to come together and negotiate protect elephants from being killed on "a travel package deals. The Indian Association large scale; and of Tour Operators with the help of the Department of Tourism had invited over 40 (c) the number of elephants killed in tour operators/wholesalers for such a travel 1983-84 and 1984-85 and value of the ivory mart" heM at New Delhi in the first week of lost in terms of Rupees ? 1\ Wrltte,. Answers APRIL 24, i985,
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (c) whether Government propose to MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND waive this condition; and . FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN): (a) and (b). Stray cases of poaching of wild e!ephant's (d) if not, the reasons thereof? for ivory occur from time to time., The THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE steps taken to protect the wild elephant are MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND given in the attached statement. TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES (c) The information is being collected and AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- wiu be laid on the table of the house. MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : (a) and (b). The ~heme of LTC Statement was originally drawn up in 1956 to pl"ovide (1) Full legal protection is provided by travel facilities to Central Government including elephant in Schedule I of the employees whose home towns were far away Wildlife (Protection) Act, 1972. , from their places of posting. Consequently it was considered necessary to limit the (2) Elephant' is also included in Appen- concession only to those who came from dix I of the Con vention on International places more than 250 miles (now 400 .K..m1) Trade in Endangered Species of Fauna and (160 Kms in the case of Group 'D' emplo- Flora (CITES) under which international yees) away from their places of posting. trade in the species or its products is strictly Further, in order to ensure that there was no regulated. discrimination against those whoSe Home Towns were within 250 miles (400 Kms.) (3) The habitats of elephant are being and, therefore, did not get any travel c01'lCej:;- protected in the form of several national sion, it was provided that those whose homes parks and sanctuaries throughout the species were beyond 400 Kms (160 Kms in the case range of distribution in the country. of Group 'D' employees) from their head- (4) Status and ecological studies are quarters should themselves bear the fares for being conducted which would form the basis the first 400 Kms. (160 Kms. in the case of for a long-term conservation strategy for the Group 'D' employees). species. (c) and (d). A suggestion has been (5) The setting up of corridors for the received in this regard but no decision has free movement of elephants between disjoint- yet been taken. ed and fragmented habitats has been Visit of British Prime Minister to India suggested to the Slates concerned. 4169. SHRIMATI MADHURI SINGH: (6) The concerned. States and Union Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS Territories are being advised from time to be pleased to state : time to take effective steps to control poach- ing by strengthening their protection and (a) whether it is a fact that during recent enforcement efforts. Central financia 1 visit of the British Prime 'Minister to India assistance is also being provided for this the activities of extremists were discussed; purpos~. and
Payment of fare for 400 KM for (b) if so, the outcome of the talks ? Availing Home Town Coocess ion by Central Government Employees THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS 4168. SHRI V.S. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : Ca) Will the PRIME MINISTER be ,pleased to Yes, Sir. state : (b) India's concern at the increasing (a) whether the Central Government anti-Indian activities of extremist elements in employees have to pay the train fare for the Britain was conveyed to the British Prime first 400 Kms while availing of the home Minister Mrs. Margaret Thatcher. She town concession; appreciated India's. concern and said that Britain would not allow its hospitality to be (b) if so, the rationale behind it; ,abused by extremist elements. She also , 73 Written Answers VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 14 conveyed that Britain was opposed to any THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE form of violence or terrorism. MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAIN- ING, ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS AND Conversion of Five Star Hotels into PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PENSION Three Star Hotels AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF 4170. SHRI BEZHWADA PAPI CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : REDDY Wil1 the Mini!'ter of TOURISM No such proposal is under consideration of AND CIVIL A VIA TION be pleased to state: the Government. The conditions of service of Central Government employees are, (a) whether Government propose to however, under consideration of the Fourth convert the Five Star ITDG hotels into Three Pay Commission, who would also be looking Star Hotels; a'nd into the age of retirement of all Central Government employees irrespective of category (b) whether Government propose to or service to which they belong. concentrate on Janata type accommodation for the common man ? Recommendation of Ecologists to preserve THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE the Silent Valley in Kerala MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL A VIAnON (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : 4173. SHRI MULLAPALLY RAMA- (a) No, Sir. CHANDRAN Will the PRIME MIN [STER be pleased to state (b) The construction of budget hotcls for whether Government have accepted the domestic travellers will be assig,1cd priority recommendations and opInions of the in the 7th Five Year Plan. The Department ecologists, ornithologists and lovers of of Tourism has written to the State Govern- nature that Utile Silent Valley" which is a ments for formulating proposals for construc- world renlJwned tropical forest in Kerala ting such hotels at major centres of tourist with a priceless wealth of rare species of interest. These proposals will be finalised in animals and birds, be preserved as such? consultation with the State Governments. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Air Services ill Coastai Areas in MINISTR Y OF ENVIRONMENT AND Andhra Prad<:sh . FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN): The Silent Valley Reserve Forest area has been con- 4171. SHRI B. B. RAMAIAH : Will stituted as a National Park under the provi- the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL sions of the Wildlife (Protection) Act, 1972, AVIATION be pleased to state : by the State Government of Kerala, on 23rd (a) whether there is a proposal to intro- November, 1984. duces air services in coastal areas in Andhra Pradesh to cover tourist places . of interest; Purchase of Airbus/aircraft from France and 4174. SHRI MANVENDRA SINGH (b) if so, the details thereof? Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL A VIA TION be pleased to state : THEMINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL (a) whether any proposal/agreement is AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : (a) under consideration of Government to No, Sir. purchase airbus/aircraft from France; and (b) Does not arise. (b) if 80, the details of the proposal/ agreement? Uniformity in Retirement Age of· Professional Staff . THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 4172. SHRIP. PENCHALAIAH: Will MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): whether· Government propose to have (a) and (b). Air India has signed an agree· uniformity in the retirement age of Central ment with Mis. Airbus Industries of France Government services to cover all professional on 8th April, 1985 for the purchase, at a staff such as medical, engineering etc. on the total estimated cost of Rs. 541.90 crorss, of lines of scientific staff? six Airbus A 310-300 aircraft to be delivered 7$ i¥ritten Answers progressively from April, 1986 to December. dated 26 September, 1983 in respect 1986. Airbus Industrie~ have also made of facilities treasury rules, recruitment. an offer to Indian Airlines for the sale of service conditions of the canteen employees A-320 aircraft for delivery in 1988-89 and etc.; and making available some aircraft on lease (d) the agency to supervise and monitor during the intervening period. the compliance with the said Supreme Court I Translation] order? Regular Air Service to Banswara, Ibjasthan THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND 4175. SHRI PRABHU LAL RAWAT: TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL REFORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AVIA TION be pleased to state: AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH (a) whether a proposal to link Banswara, DEO) : (a) and (b). Department of Personnel Rajasthan with regular air service is under and Training is concerned with the running consideration; of departmental canteens in the Government (b) jf so, the time by which it is likely offices only. Only 602 (other than public to be linked; enterprises canteens) n'on-statutory Depart- ment/Co-operative Canteens/Tiffin Rooms (c) if not, the reasons therefor; are registered with the Director of Canteens as on date. (.1) whether there is a Kachcha airstrip in Banswara; and (c) Suitable instructions have been issued (e) is so, whether Government propose on 3 -11-1983 to comply with the interim to convert it into pucca airstrip, if so, the orders of the Supreme Court of IndIa of details thereof? 26-9-1983. Recruitment/Service Conditions of canteen employees are enshrined in GSR- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 54. Treasury rules are not yet applicable to MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL canteens. AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): Cd) Each Ministry/Department locally (a) No, Sir. and Director of Canteens, central1y. (b) Does not arise. Receipt ofContraband Goods in Parcel (c) Banswara is not included in the list Office, New Delhi of stations which have been identified for 4178. DR KRUPASINDHU BHOI: being airlinked in the prescnt. expansion Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be plans of Vayudoot. pleased to state : Cd) Yes, Sir. (a) whether a representation from the Parcel Clerks and members of Uttari Railway (e) No, Sir. Mazdoor Union New Delhi have been [English} received in February and March, 1985 in the Police Hq. Delhi and Home Ministry Running of Canteens in Central Government Offices alleging receipt of contraband goods in Parcel Office. New Delhi from Assam Mail 4177. SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Will in June, 1984; the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : (b) if so, the contents thereof; and . . (a) the number of Central Government -offices and public sector enterprises which (c) action taken thereon and the time are running canteens for their employees; by which the matter is expected to be set right? (b) whether all such canteens have been duly registered with the Director of THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Canteens~ MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- (c) . whether they are complying MATI RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) Yes, with the order of the Supreme Court Sir. 77 Written Answers VAISAKIL\ 4,1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 78
(b) and (c). Shri Kulbhushan Kumar a time. Any Iiberalisation of the Pension parcel clerk al New Delhi Railway Station Rules can be achieved by amending these who is the Secretary of Uttari Railway rules or by issue of executive instructions and Mazdoor Union. issued some' wall posters not merel y by scrapping the Pensions' Act. alleging smuggling of Chin~ torches worth 1871. lakbs of rupees through the railway parcel office in connivance with the employees of Even though the Pensions' Act is over that office. The allegation of smuggling has 100 years old, it has not been felt necessary been enquired into by the Custom authori- for scrapping it or replacing it by a fresh ties and no action is required to be taken by law as it is serving its purpose and is not the police authorities. standing in the way of any liberalisation that may need to be made. Incidentally; Replacement or Pensions Act of 1871 certain provisions of this Act have been amended in 1982. So as to facilitate payment 4179. SHR[ N. V. RATNAM: Will the of life-time arrears of pension which might PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : remain undisbursed at the time of death of (a) the Act that applies to the pension a pensioner by means of nomination. Rules of Central Government retired employees; to provide for nomination for payment of life-time arrears of pensit)ns of the oemioners (b) whether Government propose to to the nominees have also been issued and replace the Pensions Act of 1871; laid on the Table of both Houses of the (c) if not. the reasons therefor; Parliament. (d) whether the Liberalised Pension (d) Yes, Sir. Scheme, in pursuance of the Supreme Court (e) Does not arIse. Judgment has been applied to those who had retired prior to 1 April, 1979; and Indira Gandbi-Bandaranayake Agreement, 1974 (e) if not, the reasons thenor and the steps taken to remove the anomalies? 4180. SHRI R. ANNANAMBI: Will THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be pleased to stat e : MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAIN- ING, ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS AND (a) the salient features of the 1974 PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PENSION Indir'l Gandhi-Bandaranayake agreement; AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : (b) whether it is a fact that pilgrims (a) Pensions' Act, 1871. and fishermen from India are entitled, to (b) No, Sir. visit Kachatheevu and there is no necessity for visa for the purpose; and (c) This Act does not in any way adversely affect the interest of the pension- (c) whether Government are aware that ers; rather, it is a protective law. For Sri Lankan Government have violated the example, Section 11 of tne Act protects 1974 agreement? pensioners against attachment and Section 12 thereof makes any assignment of future THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE interest in pension void. The 'changes in the MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS administrative strlicture, employment posi- (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : (a) tion and pay structure of the employees have The 1974 Indira Gandhi-Band.a.ranayaka not rendered the provisions· of the Act agreement concerned the 150,000 persons obsolete or out 0 f date. not covered by the earlier 1964 agreement. Accordin~ to this agreement 50% of these The Pensions' Act, 1871, does not 150,000 persons were to be granted citizen- regulate matters such as scales of pensions, ship by the Sri Lankan Government and the grant of relief to pensioners and the procedure remaining 50% were to be accepted as for sanctioning pension. These matters are repatriates and granted citizenship by the regulated by the Central Civil Services Government of India. (Pension) RtlJes. 1972. and the various executive instructions issued from time to (b) Yes, Sir. 79 Written Answers 'APRIL 24. 1985 Written Answers 80
(c) Government of Sri Lanka have done in respect of Telugu people in Andhra assured on a number of occasions that the Pradesh? 93 .. 000 stateless persons who did not apply for Indian citizenship before 30th October, THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 1981, will be soon given Sri Lankan MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND citizenship. TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE- FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES "Pollution in the Country" AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH 4181. PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Will DEO): (a) and (b). Within the existing the PRIME MINISTER .be pleased to state : framework of holidays policy and limitations (a) whether the pollution has moved on the number of holidays that can be declared in a year, there is no scope to forward to engulf countryside in India; declare a public holiday on any occasion (b) whether he is aware that an alarm other than those covered in the policy was raised recently against multiplication of instructions on the subject given.in Annexure pollutants at a Seminar or men of letters I laid on the Table of the House. organised by the Sahatiya Academy on [Placed in Library. See No. LTMI094/85I. Creativity and Environment; (c) and (d). The Central Government (c) if so, the details thereof; and Employees Welfare Coordination Committees located in dfferent parts have been given (d) the steps taken to check pollution? the disc~etion to choose three holidays from THE MINISTER OF STATE IN TNE amongst a specified Jist of 12 occasions and MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND which occasions they choose are for them to FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN): (a) No decide. This Department as such have not documented scientific evidence is available declared New Year Day as a public holiday. on the extent of pollution specifically in the Participation of Government Employees- in countryside. Political Activities (b) and (c). In a Seminar organised by 4183. SHRI BASUDBB ACHARIA : the Sahitya Academy Shri O.N.V. Kurup Will the PRrME MINISTER be pleased to presented a paper entitled 'A work of art as state whether Government have given the a product of the Creative imagination and right to the Central Government employees its Milieu.' The paper makes a reference to to participate in political activities ? pollution in villages of Kerala. (d) Does not arise in view of (a) obove. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE- Declaration of Ugadi-Telugu New Year Day as a Public Holiday in Andhra Pradesh FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- 4182. SHRI S. M. BHATTAM : MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SHRI AJIT KUMAR SAHA : SINGH DEO) : No, Sir.
Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased Sources of NonMConventional Energy to Tackle Power Crisis to state: 4184. SHRI T. BALA GOUD : Wi1l (a) whether the Central Government the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: propose to declare Ugadi-Telugu New Year Day as a public holiday for Central Govern- (a) the various sources of non-conven- ment Offices in Andhra Pradesh; tional energy which have so far been tapped by the Government to tackle the power (b) if not, the reasons therefor; crisis; and (c) whether public holidays were declared in respect of New Year Day of certain other (b) the efforts made by Government to make use of the non-conventional sources of States; and energy in runniqg water-pumps for irrigation (d) if so, the reasons why it was not and other purposes ? 81 Wrillen Answers VA~AKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 82
< IRE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Statement MINISTR Y OF SCiENCE AND TECHNO- Detai Is of the number of Letter of Intent LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF (LOis) and Industrial Licence (/Ls) OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC Issued to State Electronics Corpo- ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS rations in different States: (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) The programmes taken up by Government cover S. No. Name of the . No. of IL/ solar energy, biogas, biomass, wind energy, State LOI Issued small hydropower and geothermal energy. Research and development projects on 1. A ndhra Pradesh problems relating to hydrogen and chemical 16 'Sources of energy, ocean energy and Magneto- 2. Bihar 10 hydrodynamic power generation are also being implemented: 3. Goa Daman and Diu 2 4. Gujarat 20 (b) The following water lifting devices 5. Haryana 4 based on non-conventional energy sources have been developed in the country: Water 6. Himachal Pradesh 5 pumping wind mills, solar water pumping systems, biogas engines and hydrams. Some 7. Jammu and Kashmir 8 of these systems are being installed in various 8. Kernataka 20 parts of the country as part of a demonst- ration programme. Wind Mills and solar 9. Kerala 48 photovoltaic pumps are also being made available to individual users on a pilot basis 10. Maharashtra 21 at subsidised rates. Several State Govern- 11. Orissa 21 ments are also promoting the use of such devices. 12. Punjab 41 13. Rajasthan 13 Industrial Licences issued to State Electronics Corporations 14. Tamil Nadu 15
4185. SHRI MAHABIR PRASAD 15. Uttar Pradesh 29 YADA V : Will the PRIME MINISTER be 16. West Bengal 22 pleased to state the number of industrial licences issued to different State Electronics "Treatment Plants for Abating Water Corporations and the phased manufacturing Pollution" programme approved for each product under the industrial licence '1 ' 4186. SHRI DIGVIJAY SINGH: Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state = THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (a) whether quantitatively more than 75 MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- per cent of the water pollution emanates LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF from domestic effluents; OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS (b) whether proposals have been made to (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : The number set up a special agency for advancing loans of Letters of Intent/Industrial Licences issued to municipalities at low interest for instaI1ing to different States ard given in the attached treatment plants for abating such pollution; statement. As regards phased manufacturing and programme, compilation of details for all State (c) whether such an anergy has been set Electronics Corporations and for all products up and if so. the total allocated to it in the and from the time the corporations came Seventh Five Year Plan '1 into existance would involve work of a considerable magnitude. However, infor- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE mation for any specific product/company MINISTRY OF ENVIRONME;NT AND could be made available, if required. FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN): (a) Yes Sir. 83 Writl(!n Answers APRIL 24, 1985 Wrlttim Answers 84
(b) NOt Sir. News Item Captioned '!J(J(J Jhuggies . Reduced to Ashes' (c) Does not arise. 4188. SHRI BALRAM SINGH YADAV: Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be [Translation) pleased to state : Undertrial Women and Children in' Jails (a) whether Governments attention has 4187. SHRIMATI KRISHNA SAHI been drawn to a news-item appearing in the Will the minister of HOME AFFAIRS 'Jansatta' dated the 31st March, 1985 under 1 pleased to state : the caption "Delhi Mein 500 "Jhuggian (a) the number of undertrial women Swaha" (500 Jhuggies reduced to ashes in and minor children jails in various States Delhi); and (State-wise) during the period 1982-83 to (b) if so, the (lumber of persons killed 1984··85; and in this fire accident and the steps taken by Government in this regard ? (b) t"e number of women and children, out of them, who have nobody in their THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE families to look after their interest and MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- whether Government have made any arrange- MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) (a) Yes, ments to provide legal aid to them ? Sir. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (b) There was no casualty in this fire MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS incident. On the fire coming to notice, the (SHRIMATI RAM DULARI SINHA): fire brigade was summoned and the local (a) and (b). As 'Prisons' is a State subject, police reached the spot and with the help of the statistics about the undertrial women and public evacuated all the inhabitants of the children in jails in various States and those jhuggies including most of their belongings to about such of them as have nobody in their safer place!. 18 fire tender~ were employed families to look after their interest not to extinguish the fire. A sum of Rs. 200 compiled on an all-India basis. per effected family was disbursed out of Prime Minister's Relief Fund. For giving legal aid in Court or litigation oriented matters, State Legal Aid [Ell~lish] and Advice Boards have been constituted as Setting up of Electronics Industries apex bodies in the States. These Boards in Rura! Areas have set up Legal Aid Committees at the 4189. SHRI BALASAHEB VIKHE District and high Court levels aDd in some PATIL: Will the PRIME MINISTER be cases even at Taluka level. Three States pleased to state : viz. Bihar. Karnataka and Madhya Pradesh have also enacted a legislation on "Legal (a) whether Government are a\vare that Aid to the Poor." electronics industries are getting concentrated in and around big metropolis of our country; As required under section 304 CrPC, 1973, a few State Governments have already (b) whether as a result thereof, the fanned rules for giving legal aid in a trial benefits of all fiscal concessions go to urban before the Court of Sessions as well as before population; Magistrates Where the accused is not repre- (c) whether some legislation will be sented by Counselor where he or sl'}e made to ensure that these industries will be does not have. sufficient means to engage a taken to rural and backward areas; and lawyer. (d) jf so, Government's thinking in this The Legal Aid Lawyers are also regard. visiting jails in some of the States. Parti- cularly in Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE the Union Territory of Delhi for the MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- purpose-of int~r-viewing the prisoners and LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS finding out from tbem wlletber they need OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC legal assistance. ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS t : < ," 85 Written Answers VAISAKHA 't 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 86
(SHRI SmVRAJ v. PATIL~ PUROHIT: Will the PRIME MINISTER (a) Yes, Sir, around some metropolItan be pleased to state : cities, some concentration has taken place. (b) No, Sir. (a) whether non-conventional energy devices like solar cookers. bio-gas, mills (c) A number of concessions and faci- wood stoves and smokeless chullas save lities have been provided for industries to be scarce and costly resources and also keep established in backward districts and hill many diseases away; areas: Government has also taken decision in respe;t of some units to be established in (b) if so, whether any thorough research rural backward area. has been made by scientists in this regard; Cd) GoVernment is keen that Electronics and Industry should develop repidly and it should also go to backward and hill areas for which (c) if so, the outcome thereof? fiscal and other concessions have been provided. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- [Trallslation] LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC Meetings of Hindi Consultative Committee During 1984 ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) to (c). 4190. SHRI KlSHAN PRATAP SINGH: Yes, Sir. A countrywide programme of Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAiRS research, development and demonstration be pleased to state : has been going on for the development (a) the number of meetings of Hindi and utilisation of non-conventional Consultative Committee of the Ministry held energy sources. The programme covers during the year 1984; solar energy, biogas, biomass, wind energy, small hydropower, geothermal energy, (b) the resolutions passed in those ocean energy and chemical sources of energy. meetings; and The systems based on these sources are (c) the details regarding implementation generally free of pollution and save consi- of thesc resolutions? derable amounts of conventional fuels. As a result of the efforts made in the country a THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE number of devices and systems based on MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS renewable sources of energy have been (SHRf KHURSHEED ALAM KH-\~): developed and brousht to a stage of field (a) A sub-Committee of the Central Hmdl application. Among these are solar water Committee fun;::tions in this Ministry in heating systems, solar dryers, solar cookers, plac~ of a Hindi Advisory Committee. improved woodstoves, family and commu- During the year 1984, this Committee met nity type biogas plants, solar photovoltaic once. water pumping systems, community and (b) and (c). The Sub-Committee is street lighting units, community radio and Advisory in its nature and in its meetings it TV sets, water pumping wind mills, wind gives suggestions with regard to implemen- powered battery chargers, etc. Several of tation of Govt. orders in connection with these devices are now being probagated Offidal Languages Act and Rules and reviews throughout the country through programmes which include financial incentives, and their the progress made by the Ministry in this direction. Though, the question of passing utilisation is increasing. A number of manufacturing units have also come up which resolutions does not arise, various recom- fabricate these devices industrially. mendations have been made which this Ministry endeavours to implement. Construction and Improvement of Roads {English]· Leading to Tourist Centres Usefulness of Non-Conventional 4192. SHRlMATI JAYANTI PATNAIK: Energy Devices Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL 4191. SHRI BANWARI LAL AVIATION be pleased to state: , <, A' Written Answers Written A1isweh 88
(a) whether Government have a pro- Work Permit, and will be required posal for the creation of a special Road Fund to leave after 4 years unless for construction and improvement of roads granted an extension by the Home leading to tourist centres; Office. (b) whether any such new Road Fund Restrictions are applicable to all Doctors bas been created during the Seventh Five and Dentists from all non-EEC countries. Year Plan period; and (c) No, Sir. (c) if so, the funds earmarked for this Road Fund in 1985-86 ? Selection of Maharashtra State Civil Service Officers for Promotion to lAS THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 4194. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): state : (a) and (b). No, Sir. (c) Does not arise. (a) whether the attention of the Ministry has been drawn to the fact that in the Bao on Entry of Doctors and Dentists selection of Maharashtra State Civil Service in U.K. officers for inclusion in the select list for 4193. SHRI RAM RATAN RAM: Will promotion to lAS. discrimination is made, . the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be by passing the seniority of the concerned pleased to state : members of the Maharashtra cadre; and (a) whether Government's attention has (b) if so, what steps are being taken to been drawn to the news item appearing in give justice to the officers belonging to the the Times of India dated the 28th March, Maharashtra cadre? 1985 wherein it has been stated that British Government have banned entry into U. K. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE from overseas doctors and dentists; MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE- (b) whether it is also a fact that this will FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES affect most of the Indians who desire to go AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- to England; and MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K.P. SINGH DEO): (a) This Ministry had received (c) whether Government of India have approached the Government of U. K. to representations about the select list of Maharashtra State Civil Service Officers remove this ban ? for promotion to the Indian Administrative THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Service prepared in December 1984. MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS Government have looked into the matter (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN): carefully and it is found that the select list (a) Yes, Sir. has been prepared strictly according to the provisions of the Indian Administrative (b) The British authorities have brought Service (Appointment by Promotion) Regu- about the following changes to the British lations, 1955 after scrutinising the records of Immigration Rules, wi th effect from 1st all the 49 eligible officers. April, 1985 : (b) In view of reply to part (a) of the (i) All doctors and dentists from out- question, does not arise. side the common market will be barred from practice in British [Translation] without a Work Permit or £150.000 Tourist Centres in Morena District, to invest in their practice, and Madhya Pradesh evidence that their services are needed; 4195. SHRI KAMMODILAL JATAV : Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL (ll) Doctors and Dentists seeking Post- AVIATION be pleased to state : Graduate training at British Medical Schools would be allowed to study (a) the names of tourist Centres in in Britain for 4 years without a Morena district in Madhya Pradesh; and 89 Writte~ Answer; VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers ;.
(b) whether the old temple (Kakan increase during the Fifth Plan period Temple) of Sithonia Village is proposed to 1974-79. be developed as a place of tourism; and if so, the time by which it is likely to be (c) The per capita net domestic product developed ? of Kerala for the year 1983-84, at 1970-71 prices according to the State Statistical THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Bureau's estimates was Rs. 750 as against MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL the per capita net National Product of Rs. AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : 749 for the country estimated by the Central (a) There are places of archaeological Statistical Organisation." and s~nic importance in this district such as Kakanmath temple, Rameshwar, Govind (d) Does not arise. Talab. Nalakeshwar Mahadev, Pagara Dam and Rahu ke Gaon. Protection and Preservation of Brow Antlered Deer (b) Kakanmath temple in Sithonia 4197. PROF. KAMSON MEIJINLUNG: Village is preserved by the Archaeological Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to Survey of India. There is no proposal state: currently under the consideration of State or Central Government to develop this temple (a) whether number of the Brow Antlered as a place of tourist interest. Deers at Keibul Lamjao National Park is diminishing; [English] (b) the total areas of the park; Per Capita Income in Kerala (c) the action taken to set up fencing around the park; and 4196. SHRI K. MOHANDAS : PROF. P. J. KURIEN : (d) any special scheme to protect and preserve the Prow Antlered Deer which is Will the Minister of PLANNING be the only living species of its kind on earth? pleased to state : THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Ca) whether there has been any increase MINISTR Y OF ENVIRONMENT AND in the per capita income in Kerala during FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) : (a) No, Sir. the last three years; (b) The total area of Keibul Lamjao (b) if so, the percentage of increase National Park is 40 square kilometres. during the Sixth Plan compared to the Fifth Plan; (c) The State Government of Manipur are erecting an earthen ring bund, with live (c) whether Kerala's per capita income fence, around a part of the periphery of the is lower than the national per capita income; park and a portion of this work has already and been completed. (d) if so, what special steps are being Cd) The measures taken to protect and taken to raise the per capita income in preserve the Manipur Brow -Antlered Deer Kerala to the level of national per capita are given below- income? (i) The species is included in SchedUle THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE I to the Wildlife (Protection) Act, MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. 1972, which affords full Iopl NARA YANAN) : (a) and (b). Yes, Sir. protection from hunting and from According to the estimates prepared by the trade or commerce. . .State Statistical Bureau, the per capita net domestic product of Kerala at 1910-71 prices (li) It is listed in Appendix I to the has shown an increase during the three year Convention on International Trade period ending 1983-84. The percentage in Endangered Species of Fauna and increase during the first four years of the Flora (CITES) under which inter- Sixth Plan, i.e. 1980-84, works out to 13.8% national trade in the species 'or its in comparison to an almost negligible products is strictly prescribed. . 91 Written Answers Written Answers g2
(iii) Specific measures for the protection (a) whether many States including Uttar and management of Keitml Lamjao Pradesh, have not utilised the entire amount National Park including recommen- allocated to them during 1983-84 and 1984. dation for a research programme 85 for carrying out welfare programmes for were made by an expert team SCs/STs; deputed in May, 1982. The State Government is implementing the (b) the names of such States and the suggested measures. amount allocated to each of them for these programmes and the amount utilised by each (iv) Financial assistance is being pro- of them; and vid;:d by the Cen tral Government for the development of the national (c) the remedial steps proposed to be park since 1974.75. So far an taken in this regard ? amount of about Rs. 24.00 lakhs has been provided for undertaking THE MINI ,TER OF STATE IN THE habitat improvement, protection MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS and construction works including (SHRTMATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) purchase of equipment and vehicles. to (c). The Government of India gives funds to the State Government Union (v) Captive breeding is being done in Territories in the form of SCA (Special th~ zoos at Delhi, Calcutta, Imphal Central Assistance) for the welfare of the and Hyderabad. Through regular Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The exchange of animals between these funds allocated in the years 1983 -84 and zoos, the genetic vigour of the 1984-85 have been utilised in full. species in captivity is being maintained. [English]
Handling of Functions of a Professional Satta Cambling in India Nature in the Specialised Fields 4200. SHRI BHOLA NATH SEN: 4198. SHRl GOPALA KRISHNA Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be THOT A : Will the PRIME MINISTER be ph:ased to state : pleased to state : (a) whether Government have informa- (a) whether functions of a professional tion about the activities of the notorious nature in the Secretariat and the Government network/racket of Satta gambling in India are being handled by the professional officers which flec;::cs the public of lakhs of rupees in the respective specialised fields such as every day; Agriculture, Health, Telecommunication, Education, Statistics ets.; and (b) if so, the detail5 thereof;
(b) if so, the steps taken by Government (c) the reasons as to why it has so far in this regani ? not been possible to stop this form of illegal gambling in the country; and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND (d) the steps taken/proposed to be taken TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE- by Government to contain Satta gambling FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES and/or to ensure deterrent punishment to AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- persons involved in the Satta rackets? MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : (a) and (b). The information is THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE being collected and will be laid on the Table. MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- MATI RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) to (d). "Betting and Gambling" is a State subject, [Translation) being included in the State List of tbe Utilization or Funds Allocated for Seventh Schedule to the Constitution. Public Welfare of SCsjSTs . gambling and the keeping of common gaming 4199. SHRI HARISH RAWAT houses is an offence which attract penalties Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be under the Public Gambling Acts of various pleased to state : States. It is, therefore, for the State Govern- 93 Written Answers' VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA) .Wrhten Answers 94 roents to take action against those found THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE indulging in any gambling activities. MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAINING, ADMINiSTRATIVE RE· As far as Government of India are FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES concerned, complaints, if any received, are AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- passed on to the concerned State Govern- MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH ment for appropriate action. DEO) : (a) No, Sir. (b) and (c). Does not arise. Special Clerical Grade Examination held by S~aff Selection Cl>mmissioa Trial of Hijackers in Pakistan 4201. SHRI DILEEP SINGH BHURIA : 4203. SHRI KAMAL NA TH: Will Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be ple~sed to state : be pleased to state : (a) whether some candidates have been (a) whether in regard to the trial of issued letters of appointment who got through hijackers of Indian Airlines Planes being in special clerical G fade examination and held in Pakistan, Government propose to typing test held by Staff Selection Commis- send any witnesses; and sion on 18 December, 1983; (b) if so, the details thereof? (b) if so, the reasons why some candi- dates whose names were forwarded by the THE MIN[STER OF STATE IN THE Minister of External Affairs to Department of MiNISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS Personnel and A. R. for the said examination (SHRl KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : (a) have not been issued letters of appointment and (b). In response to a request by the although they have also qualified in the Government of Pakistan, five crew members written examination as well as in the typing of the Indian Airlines aircraft which was test; and hijacked to Lahore on September 29th, 1981. arrived in Pakistan on the 17th April, 1985 (c) the reasons for delay and the time to appear as prosecution witnesses at the by which letters of appointment are likely to trial of the hijackers of . the aircraft, be issued? currently taking place at Lahore.
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Plantation of Eucalyptus MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS 4204. SHRIMATI KISHORI SINHA: (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : (a) Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased" to No, Sir. state : (b) Does not arise as they were not (a) whether Government have seen the deemed to have fulfilled certain conditions report in the 'Economic Times' of March 30, for appointment. 1985 that there is danger of lands turning (c) Matter has been taken up with Deptt. into deserts if eucalyptus is planted under of Personnel and Administrative Reforms. social forestry schemes; (b) if so, its reaction thereto; and Publication of Rabinura Rachanabali (c) whether this species is proposed to be withdrawn and others like su-babul 4202. SHRI SATYAGOPAL MISRA: introduced on a wide scale? Will the Minister of CULTURE be pleased to state: THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND (a) whether there is any proposal under FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) : (a) Yes, Sir. consideration of Government to publish low priced edition of Rabindra Rachanabali in (b) and (c). Guidelines have been Bengali; issued to the States/Union Territories to the (b) if so, the details therefor; and effect that a culture of mixed species of indigenous origin should be preferred lO (c) if not, the reasons therefor? monoculture. 9-S WrilJen AII8WeT~ J!"ritten Aruwers 96
[Translation1 [English]
Implementation of Cadre Rules· on National Rifle Association Creation or Hindi Posts 4206. SHRI DIGVIJA Y SINGH: Will 4205. SHRI C. JANGA REDDY : Will the Minister of YOUTH AFFAIRS AND the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased SPORTS be pleased to state : to state: (a) whether the apex body of target (a) Whether the Central Secretariat Offi- shooters in India is the National Rifle Asso- cial Language Service has since been formed ciation of India; and two Deputy Directors have already been reverted, if n~, the reasons therefor; (b) whether this organisation has now become defunct; and (b) the reasons for not creating posts according to the cadre before implementing (c) steps being taken to revive the Asso- the cadre rules so that such reversions may ciation? be avoided; and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (c) whether Government will ensure that DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH AFFAIRS the cadre rules are implemented only after the AND SPORTS (SHRI R. K. JAICHANDRA creation of required number of Hindi posts SINGH) : (a) The con.:erned national sports according to the rules and regulations? federation for the discipline of shooting is the National Rifle Association of India; THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- (b) No, Sir, but elections of office MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) to (c). bearers are overdue; With the approval of the Cabinet, it was (c) Indian Olympic Association has indi- decided to constitute a Service called the cated that elections of office bearers of. "Central Secretariat Offi.;ial Language National Rifle Association of India are Service," in order to bring under a common sch~duled to be held on 1-6-1985. cadre the various isolated Hindi posts in the different Ministries/Departments and their Installation of 500 KW Wind Farm in Orissa Attached Offices. Accordingly, in accordance with the provisions made in the Central 4207. SHRI SOMNATH RATH: Will Secretariat Official Language Service (Group the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : 'A' Group 'B' posts) Rules, 1983 pubiished on 24-9-83 in the Gazette of India Part II (a) whether the Department of Non- Section 3, Sub-Section (i) under G.S.R. 696, Conventional_ Energy Sources has sanctioned the initial constitution of Grade I (Director) a project for installing a 500 K W wind farm and Grade II (Deputy Director) has been in Orissa: finalised and necessary notification in this (b) whether Government has a proposal regard issued on 1.3.1985. 25 posts of Grade 11 to sanction more wind Jarms for Orissa; and (Deputy Director) were included in Schedule-I of the aforesaid rules. Accordingly. 25 eligi- (e) the programme of the Government in ble departmental candidates recommended by installing wind farm in Orissa during 1985-86? the Selection Committee h 1 ve been inducted in the Service as Deputy Directors and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE appointed against cadre posts. Two persons MINISTR Y OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- who have been reverted were officiating on LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ad-hoc basis even though they were not OCEAN DEVELOPMENT. ATOMIC eligible to be considered for induction in ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS Service as Deputy Director in accordance (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) Yes, Sir. with rules. After the initial constitution. the regularly selected persons had to be given (b) and (c). At present, there is no appointment and, therefore, the reversion of other specific proposal for installation of the two officers who were pure1y on ad-hoc Wind Farms in Orissa during the current basis was inevitable. Financial Year. f1 W,ltten Answers VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 98
"Threat to Ecology of Western Ghats" (6) The State Department of Ecology and Environment as a nodal agency en- 4208. SHRI NARASINGRAO SURYA- . deavours to study and check causes and consequences of environmental WANSHI: degration in all sectors including SHRI V.S. KRISHNA IYER : implementation of legislative measures Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to for environmental protection. state : [Translation) (a) whether a study on the State of Poverty among Tribals Karnataka indicated that (i) the submersion of large area under river valley projects (ii) 4209. KUMARI PUSHPA DEVI : Will damage due to mining and (iii) exploitation of the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased forests for industrial and fuel wood purposes to state are seriously threatening the ecology of the Western Ghats; and (a) whether Government propose enable at least 40 lakh tribal families to cross (b) if so, the measures taken or proposed the poverty line during the Seventh Plan; to be taken, both by the Union and State Goyernments to solve these problems ? (b) if, so, the main features of the strategy proposed to be followed for the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE achievement of the above goal; and MINISTR Y OF ENVIRONMENT AND FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN): (a) Accor- (c) the details of the steps proposed to ding to "Karnataka-State of Environment be taken under sub-plan programme to Report 1983-84" various developmental acti- achieve the targd fixed for the Seventh Plan? vities have led to some environmental degra- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE dation. Deforestation and resultant soil MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI· erosion pose a potential threat to the ecology MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) Yes. of Western Ghats. Sir. (b) Some important measures taken or (b) The main features of the strategy proposed by the Union and State Govern- proposed to be adopted are to identify tribal ments are: families living below poverty line in (a) ITDP areas; (b) the Modified Area Development (l) An integrated eeo-development pro- Approach (MADA) Areas which involve gramme with the involvement of pockets of tribal concentration and Cc) the universities, research institutes and Primitive Tribes Project areas. voluntary agencies, has been launched by the Department of Environment. (c) The beneficiary-oriented programmes will involve a package of schemes to be taken (2) Environment impact assessment of up under the (i) IRO, NREP and RLEGP major developmental projects in- Programmes; Oi) ITDP Programmes and cluding river valley schemes is being (iii) other departmental schemes from funds carried out with a view to providing under State Plan, Central Plan, institutional environmental safeguards. sources and from ~pecial Central Assistance of the Ministry of Home Affairs. (3) Afforesatation as a continuing pro- gramme is undertaken by the State [English] Government to improve fuel and Usc of Computer by Indian Airlines timber supply. 4210. SHRI RADHAKANTA DIGAL: (4) State Government have also taken PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : measures to curb degradation of the environment by uncontrolled WitI the Minister of TOURISM AND commercial interests. CIVIL A VIA nON be pleased to state ; (5) Environmental guidelines have been (a) whether Government have implemen- developed for mlnmg of major ted the proposal to computerise the ticketing resource minerals. and cheCk-in by Indian Airlines; 99 Written Answers APRIL 24, 1985 Written Answers 100
(b) if so, since when such programme has CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : (a) been implement~d and the names of the The percentage of reservation for Scheduled -Airports where this facility is available at Castes and Scheduled Tribes in appointments present; to various Central Government Services in indicated in Statement I attached. (c) whether it will affect in the displace- ment of the personnel in Indian Airlines; (b) The groupwise representation of and Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in the Central Government Services as . Oll (d) whether travel agencies will continue 1-1-1983 has been indicated in the statement- to book seats en-block for tourists? II attached. Compilation of relevant I data THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE pertaining to 1-1-1984 and 1-1-1985 is ndt MINISTRY OF TOURISM ,AND CIVIL yet complete. ' AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : (c) Various concessions in age, fre~ (a) No, Sir. Indian Airlines has, however, travelling allowance, standard of suitability, commissioned its Real Time Computer Reser- relaxation in experience qualification in direct vation System. recruitment, and separate interview of candi- dates belonging to these communities have (b) Does not arise. been prescribed. In case of non-availability of (c) No, Sir. Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes candi ... dates, the principles of carry-forward of (d) Yes, Sir. reservation and exchange of vaCJlDcies hav(( [Translation] becn provided, as per relevant in'Structions, thereby protecting the rights of Scheduled Reservation Quota for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in Central Castes and Scheduled Tribes candidates. Services Reserved vacancies are also given wide publi.i city through Newspapers, All India Radio~ 4211. SHRI M. L. JHIKRAM : Will Voluntary Associations of Scheduled Castes -the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state; and Scheduled Tribes and Directors of (a) the percentage of reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Scheduled Castes and Seheduled Tribes in Welfare or Social Welfare in States and Central Services; Union Territories. In some cases, Special (b) whether the reservation quota for Limited Departmental Examinations confined Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in only to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled each category was completed as per the above Tribes candidates are also held. Examination percentage as on 1 January, 1983, 1 January, Centres have also been set up in areas having 1984; and 1 January, 1985; and concentration of Scheduled Tribes population. Coaching centres have also been started to (c) if not, the steps taken by GOvern- prepare Scheduled Castes and Scheduled ment in this regard and . whether the quota Tribes candidates for various competItIVe will be completed by 1 January, 1986 ? examinations. It is expected that with all THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE these measures, the representation of Sche- MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND duled Castes/Scheduled Tribes will further TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE- improve, though no commitment about the FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND date when the representation will reach the PENSION AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF targetted percentage is possible to be made. Statement I Statement shOWing the percentage of reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in appointments to various Central Government Services The percentage of reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes prescribed for different modes of appointment are as follows :-
Scheduled Castes Scheduled Tribes
1 2 3
(i) Direct recruitment on an aU-India 15% basis by open competition an<;l a.U , , " . " iot Written Answers VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 10~
1 2 3
appointments by promotion wher- ever reservation is applicable
(ii) Direct recruitment on an all-India basis otherwise than by open com- petition (iii) Direct recruitment to Group C and Percentages are prescribed in proportion D posts normally attracting cani- to the population of Scheduled Castes/ dates"from a locality or region. Scheduled Tribes in the respective States/ Union Territories.
Statement-II
Statement s/wwing the total number of Government Employees and the number of Scheduled Castes and Schedul!!d Tribes among them as on 1-1-1983
S. No. Group Total number Scheduled Percentage Scheduled Percentage of Employees Castes Tribes
1. Group-A 53,165 3,574 6.72 761 1.43 2. Group-B 62,600 6,368 10.17 922 1.47 3. Group-C 21,28,746 3,11,070 14.61 88,149 4.14 4: Group-D 13,03,005 2,55,053 19.57 71,812 5.51 (Excluding Sweepers)
Total 35,47,516 5,76,065 16.24 1,61,644 4.56
[English} (b) The raising of civil defence volunteers is carried out by the respective State Govern- Strength of Civil Defence Volunteers ments. As the civil defence volunteers are enrolled on a voluntary basis, there is 4212. SHRI D. B. PATIL: Will the generally a different between the target Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to strength and the raised strength. state : (c) No, Sir. Out of the raised strength (a) whether target regarding strength of of 3.97 lakhs, 3.68 Iakhs have been trained. civil defence volunteers has been achieved Permission to Indian Fishermen on the side in 1984-85; of Sri Lanka International Boundary Line (b) if not, the reasons therefor; and 4213. SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (c) whether all civil defence volunteers be pIeas,ed to state whether Indian fishing enrolled are full trained ? vessels and Indian fishermen are allowed to THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE carry on fishing operations on the Sri Lankan MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- side of the International Boundary Line MAT! RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) No, (IBL) as pet the agreement between the two Sir. Against the target strenght of 5.7 lakhs. countries on 26 June, 1974 ? "the -raised strength upto 1984-85 is 3.97 THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE ~.. " MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS 1()~ Written A,:swers APRIL 24, 1985
(SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN): The Budget for 1985-86 has accorded a tax According to the agreem:!nt of 1974 hetween deduction of upto 20 per cent of profits to . Sri Lanka and India on the boundary in the industry for investment in new machiners, historic waters between the two countries fresh planting and replanting etc. As regards and related matters the vessels of Sri Lanka output and export growth would be sustained and India will enjoy in each other's waters through programmes covering area expansion, such rights as they have traditionally enjoyed increase in yields, strengthening of market therein. and export promotion, infrastructure and increase in processing and storage capacities. Decline in Exports of Tea and Coffee Regularisat ion of Forest Maz400rs in 4214. SHRI B. V. DESAI: Will the Andaman aad Nieobar Minister of PLANNING be pleased to state : 4215. SHRI MANORANJAN BHAKTA: (a) whether the Planning Commission Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to has estimated that in physical terms there state : would be a progressive decline in the exports of tea and coffee; (a) whether the case of regularisa~ tion of services of 662 forest (b) if so, whether the Planning Commis- mazdoors working in the Forest Department sion has estimated that the exports of tea of Andaman and Nicobar Islands, has been would be of the order of 163 million kilo- pending with his Ministry for a long time; grams in 1989-90 as against 200 millon kilo- grams in 1984-85; (b) if so, the action Government con- template to take thereon; (c) if so, the main reasons for the same; and (c) whether the former Prime Minister was in favour of regularisation of services of (d) the efforts proposed to be made to these forest mazdoors; and improve the position? (d) if so, the reasons for delay in accord- THE MTNISTER OF STATE IN THE ing sanction ? MINISTRY OF PLANNLNG (SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN): (a) to (c). In order to assess THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE the magnitude of export effort required, the MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND Planning Commission had made preliminary FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) : (a) The case estimates of tca and coffee exports by extra- of regularisation of services of 662 forest polating past output and domestic consump- mazdoors working in the Forest Department t ion trends on the assumption of unchanged of Andaman and Nicobar Islands is under export promotion policies. This exercise active consideration of the Government from indicated that, without special measures, tea September 1978. and coffee exports could ·dec1ine, tea exports (b) A decision regarding regularisation conceivably to 163 m:tlion kilogram" in 1989- is expected to be taken·-shortly. 90 from an estimated 200 million kilograms in 1984-85. (c) The former Prime Minister h4d' directed that the request for creation of ·new Cd) A number of measures are being posts for regularisation of these casu.! envisaged to ensure the pace of growth of workers be looked into. exports which will maintain India's share of the world tea market, a ta<;k rendered easier (d) The proposals could not be finalised by the exceptionally good production per- earlier because of the general ban on creation formance in 1984-85, when output went up of posts. by as much as 70 mill. kg, to a total of 645 Refugee Rehabilitation Programme of'WiIId mill. kg. Substantial increase in production Bengal Bihar et c. is expected from new planting, replanting, rejuvenation, pr:ming and drainage, irrigation 4216. SHRI PRIYA RANJAN; IU$ and improved c:ulturuJ orerations. A Task MUNSI: Will the Minister of HOlIQit Force, headed by a Deputy Governor of the AFFAIRS be pleased to state: Reserve Bank, is looking into the institutional (a) whether Government would sympa- fina&cing tequirements of the tea industry. thetically consider the cases of roftllle 1M Wrilten Answers VAISAKltA ., 1901 (SAKA) Written An.swers ib6 rehabilitation programme of West Bengal. inadequate considering the volume of air Andaman and N icobar, Orissa. Madhya traffic; Pradesh. Maharashtra and Bihar; (b) whether there is a demand for mak- (b) if so, whether Government propose ing it daily; and to invite the M.Ps representing the refugee areas of these States to listen to their grie- (c) if so, the steps being taken in this regard? vances and adequately advise the State Governments to solve it; and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (c) if not, the reasons thereof ~ MINISTR Y OF TOURISM AND CIVIL THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE A VIA nON (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : (a) MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- Out of the allocation of 80 and 70 seats on the MATI RAM DULARI SlNHA): (a) to Delhi-Bhubaneswar and Bhubaneswar-Delhi (c). The Rehabilitation of migrants in sectors respectively, the average number of these States has by and large been complet- passengers carried per flight during the six ed. Individual cases of hardship received months period ending February~ 1985 was either direct or through MPs are looked into 51.15 .and 45.78 respectively. The average sympathetically. As such, the proposal made utilisation figures indicate that the capacity in part (b) of the question is not considered presently provided is quite adequate. necessary. (b) Yes, Sir. Suspension of Inlhi Police Personnel (c) There are no plans to increase the 4217. SHRI RAM PUJAN PATEL frequency of the flight fo_r the present. Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to state : Middle Level Air Service Linking the (a) the number and particulars of Delhi Capital of Orissa Police Personnel suspended during the last 4219. SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA two years, year-wise; Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVJL (b) the charges 00 which they have been AVIATION be pleased to state: suspended; and (a) the number and names of the cities (c) the number of Police Personnel out in Orissa which have the middle level air of those referred to in part (a) above, who service linking the State's Capital; have been reinstated ? (b) whether there is a demand for THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE providing middle level air service linking the MINISTRY OF HOME AfFAIRS (SHRI- Capital of Orissa with other cities such as MAT! RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) In 1983, Jharsuguda, Rourkela, Jeypore and Jashipur; 353 police personnel were suspended while in and 1984, 422 police personnel were suspended. (c) if so, the steps being taken by (b) These personnel were suspended on Government in this respect? grounds of their involvement in criminal cases, misconduct in treating the suspects or THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE for derelication of duty. MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL (c) 289 police personnel out of 353 AVIATION (SHRl ASHOK GEHLOT) : suspended in 1983, were reinstated. In 1984, (a) Vayudoot aperates a thrice weekly service 302 out of 422 were re-instated. between Rourkela and Bhubaneshwar. DailY Boeiog Service between Delhi and (b) Yes, Sir. Bbubaneswar (c) Subject to availability of aircraft 4218. SHRI CHINt'AMANI JENA: capacity, development of infrastructural Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL facilities and economic viability of oPera- AVIATION be pleased to state : tions, Vayudoot proposes to provide airJink to (a) whether five day in a week Boeing Jeypore and Jharsuguda during the Seventh Service between Delhi and Bhubaneswar is Plan period. 107 W,il/ell AlZSwers APlut l4, J985
Programme for Youths iu A and N Islands (a) wbetber U. P. S. C. is switching over· 4221. SHRI MANORANJAN BHAKTA: wholly to objective type question papers Will the Minister of YOUTH AFFAIRS While conducting examinations; and AND SPORTS be pleased to state : (b) if so, how U. P. S. C. wiJI test expression capacity, style of language etc; of (a) whether Government have taken up the candidates? any programme for the youths in A and N Islands during the International Year of the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Youth; and MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND (b) if so, details thereof, and if not, TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE- reasons therefor? FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI K. P. DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH AFFAIRS SINGH DEO) : (a) No, Sir. AND SPORTS (SHRI R. K. JAICHANDRA SINGH): (a) and (b). Various programmes (b) Does not arise. for the observance of International Youth -[Trans/ation] Year in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands have been taken up. The National Youth Day Facilities to the Staff of Hotel Kanishka and National Youth Week was observed in January, 1985. Other programmes taken up 4224. SHRI R. M. BHOYE: Will the include holding of National' Integration Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL camps, Work camps; vocational training pro- A VIAnON be pleased to state : gramme; training in cooperatives; adven- (a) the period of service required to be ture programmes; inter-state youth exchange completed by the employees of I. T. D. C. programmes; coaching and competitions (Hotels) for regularising their services; in games and sports. (b) the rate of deduction from the salary Attack by Jarwlls in A & N Islands of the employees of these hotels for contri- 4222. SHRI MANORANJAN bution towards G. P. F. as per rules; BHAKTA: Will the Minister of HOME (c) whether all these facilities are also AFF AIRS be pleased to state : provided to employees of hotel Kanishka; (a) how many cases of Jarwa attack and incidents occured in the Union Territory of (d) if so, the details thereof and if not, A and N Islands during the last three years, the reasons for not providing these facilities year-wise details and the number of persons to them and the time by which these faci- killed; lities will be provided to the employees (b) whether the A and N Administration specially belonging to the lower cadres? paid any ex-gratia payment to the deceased's next kith and kin; if so, the amount in each THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE case; if not, the reasohs therefor; and MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : (c) whether Government have taken any (a) The employees appointed in IDTC rehabilitation scheme in hand to save such Hotel Units are regularised after successfu]Jy unfortunate families from starvation? completing their probationary periods which range from 3 to 6 months under the certified THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- Standing Order/Model Standing Orders applicable to the various units. MATI RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) to (c). I Information is being collected and will be (b) Under the Contributory Provident pleaced on the Table of the House. Fund Scheme as applicable to IT DC Hotels, deductions on accounts of Contributory O~jective type question papers by U.P,S'~'. Provident F:und are made from the eligible 4223. SHRI MOHANLAL PATEL: employees appointed· in I,-T. D. C. hotel Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to units @ 8% of ttieir Basic Pay; Dearness state : Allowance and Meal AllowanCe. 109 Written AnsWers VAISAKHA 4.1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 110
(c) and (d). The Contributory Provi- 8. Karnataka dent Fund Scheme will be introduced in 224 9. Karala Hotel Kanishka from August, 1985 when 328 this Unit will compelete its infancy period 10. Madhya Pradesh of three years as provided in the Employees' 368 Provident Fund Act. 11. Maharashtra 257 [English] 12. Manipur 3372 Financial Aid to States with I.essor per 13. Meghalaya Capita Income 2622 14. 4225. SHRI AMARNATH RATHAWA: Nagaland 6072 Will the Minister of PLANNING be pleased 15. Orissa 433 to state: 16. Punjab 340 (a) per capita financial aid given to each 17. State under the Sixth Five Year Plan; and Rajasthan 503 18. Sikkim (b) the steps being taken to give more 6581 financial aid to those States where per capita 19. Tamil Nadu 231 income is not at par with other States? 20. Tripura THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 1978 MINISTRY OT PLANNING (SHRI K. R. 21. Uttar Pradesh 296 NARAY AN AN) : (a) A Statement showing 22. West Bengal per capita Central aid provided for ~he 296 States' Plans during the Sixth Plan period is attached. Total All States 381 (b) The requirement of Central assistaI?ce Calculated on the basis of 1971 popu- in the case of Special Category States, VIZ., Assam, Himachal Pradesh, Jammu and lation. This includes normal Central Kashmir, Kanipur, Meghalaya, Nagaland, assistance, assistance for externally aided Sikkim and Tripura is pre-empted to enable projects, special assistance for Hill Areas them to have viable Plan<;. The remaining and Tribal Areas, assistance on account States are allocated Central assistance on the of drought relief works, and the medium basis of the modified Gadgil formula which, term loans provided to the States for covering their deficits. inter alia, assigns 20 per cent wejghta~e in the allocation to backward States havmg a per capita income below the national average. Expenditure on Antarcti ca Expeditions and their Achievements Statement 4226. SHRI AMARSINH RATHA W A : Per-Capita Central A id provided for SHRI V. S. KRISHNA IYER : States: Plans during the Sixth plall Period 1980-85* Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: (Rupees) (a) the number of Antarctica expeditions 1. Andhra Pradesh 288 made so far and the expenditure incurred on each expedition; 2. Assam 1020 3. Bihar 337 (b) the details of achievements made by each expedition; and 4. Gujarat 229 (c) whether there is any programme to 5. Haryana 421 send a,nother Antarctica team in the near 6. Himachal Pradesh 1567 future, if so, when and whether provision has been made for their expenditure during the 7. Jammu and Kashmir 2291 year 1985-86 ? 111 Written Answer. AP1l1L 24. 19M Written Answers ·112
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE pleas~d to state : MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS (a) whether any atomic energy centre OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT. ATOMIC expension programme can be formulated ENERGY, SeACE AND ELECTRONICS with the present Institute at Salt Lake and (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) India has in cooperation with Saha Institute of l'luc1ear organised four scientific expeditions to Physics at Calcutta University's Science Antarctica so far. The expenditute incurred College; and on these four expeditions has been Rs. 1.90 (b) if not, the reasons therefor? crores, Rs. 1.95 crores, Rs. 5.70 crores and Rs. 6.20 crores respectively. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN (b) During the first expedition organised THE MINISTRY OF SCIENCE ANO in 1981-82. an Indian scientific team landed TECHNOLOGY AND IN THE DEPART- on Antarctica for the first time and spent MENTS OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, 10 days there. It installed an automatic ATOMIC ENERGY, SPACE AND weather recording station and constructed a ELECTRONICS (SHRI SHIVRAJ v. 'pATIL) : (a) Yes, Sir. refuge hut there. It made studies and collected valuabJe data in the fields of polar Programmes for maximum development biology. geology, glaciology, meteorology, and utilisation of the cyclotron facility at oceanography and communication channels the Variable Energy Cyclotron Centre, Salt between India and Antarctica. Lake, Calcutta, by nuclear scientists from The second expedition team spent 57 various institutes including the Saha Institute days on the icy continent doing studies and of Nuclear Physics and Universities are collecting more data in various scientific already in progress. New programmes using disciplines. The team also selected a site this facility are also periodically formulated for setting up a permanent Indian station at by the National Variable Energy Cyclotron Antarctica. USERS' Committee which has representatives from Saha Institute of Nuclear Physics and During the third expedition in 1983-84. Universities. a permanently manned scientific st Hion was established in Antarctica. . This station is (b) Does not arise. fully equipped with working laboratories in the field of biology and Meterology. A Import of Silicon Wafer team of 12 persons was left at the station which successfully returned to India after 4228. SHRI INDRAJET G UPTA : Wi}) spending 15 months in Antarctica. the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state :
During the fourth expedition 1984-85, (a) Whether his attention has been besides putting up other types of accommo- drawn to the news-item appeared in dation at the Indian Antarctica Station "Business Standard" dated 13 March, J985 Dakshin Gangotri, another field station has captioned "Government units shun Indian been established in the hills about 70 km silicon wafer makers"; away from the permanent Indian Station. A team of 13 persons has been left behind at (b) whether Central Electronics Corpo- the permanent Indian station in Antarctica. ration had floated a global tender for six to This team will stay there till March 1986. ten lakhs silicon wafer for its solar panel project ignoring the two Indian firms in this (c) Yes Sir. The fifth expedition to field; and Antarctica is proposed to be launched to~ wards the end of November 1985. Funds (c) if so, the details thereof '1 for the same have been provided in the budget of 1985~86. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO. Atomic Energy Centre Expansion Programme LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS OF. OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC 4227. SHRI PRIY A RANJAN DAS ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS M UNSI : Will the PRIME MINISTER be (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) Yes, Sit. 113 Wrillell Anstvers VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 114
(b) and (c). The requirement or single issued by the U. S. Secretary of Strte and crystalline silicon wafers by Central Elect- the Soviet Foreign Minister on 8th January. ronics Limited (CEL) and Bharat Heavy 1985. the subject of these negotiations will Electricals Limited (BHEL) for their solar be "a complex of questions concerning space photovoltaic programme is currently around and nuclear arms-both strategic and inter- 17 lakhs numbers. However, the installed mediate range-with all the questions consi- annual capacity of two Indian manufacturers dered and resolved in their inter-relation- in terms of their CZ single crystal pullers is ship." By mutual agreement, the two arround 4 lakhs wafers. CEL had been negotiating parties have agreed to keep the placing small orders with Indian manu- proceedings of their talks confidential. facturers but material supplied so far revealed scope for improvement in quality, The Ambas'ladors in Geneva of the six based on detailed technical evaluation, In countries who adopted the Delhi Declaration August 1984, CEL floated a global' tender called on the leaders of the U. S. and USSR for 10 lakhs numbers of 100 mm diameter delegations in Geneva and conveyed to them single crystalline silicon wafers for their the message of the Delhi Declaration. They expanding solar photovoltaic programme. also zpprised them of our hopes for an early, positive out come. Quotations of Indian ~anufacturers in response to this were found to be very much List of SCs/STs higher than those offered by foreign manu- facturers. Nonetheless to encourage 4230. SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS : indigenous manufacturers, CEL have placed Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be some order on two Indian manufacturers, pleased to state: who had supplied the material earlier. (a) whether many SC/ST communities Six-Nation summit held at Delhi in in different States, having sound economic January, 1985 condition, have been included in the list of 4229. SHRI N. V. RATNAM: Will the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes; Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be pleased to state : (b) if so, whether Government propose to exclude such communities from the list of (a) whether at the six-nation summit protect the interest of vulnerable scheduled held at Delhi in January, 1985 a Committee groups as the affluent scheduled population was formed to dissuade the nuclear powers avails of all the benefits ignoring such from manufacturing nuclear weapons~ groups; (b) if so, who are its members and the (c) whether any socio.economic study work turned out by them so far; and to identify and exclude the affluent Scheduled (c) the present stage of Geneva talks and Castes and Scheduled Tribes from the list the attempts made by Government to make has been made; them fruitful ? (d) if so, when; and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (e) if not, the reasons therefor? MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (a) and (b). No, Sir. However the Delhi MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- Declaration adopted by the leaders of MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) There Argentina, Greece, Mexico, Sweden. Tanzania is a set of criteria for inclusion of any ann India called for a halt to the testing, community in the list of Scheduled Castes and production and deployment of all nuclear another set of criteria for inclusion in the weapons and their delivery systems, leading list of Scheduled Tribes which are as to their reduction and elemination. Several follows: follow-up measures have been taken to promote the Delhi Declaration. Scheduled Castes (c) The USA and USSR commenced Extreme social, education and economic arms negotiations in Geneva on March 12, backwardness arising out of the traditional 1985. According to the Joint Statement practice of untouchability. 115 Writt~1J AMWer, APIlIL 24,1985
Schedule Tribes substitution, improvement in the- existing Indications of primitive traits, distinctive products and processes, new product and culture. geogyaphical isolation, shyness of process development, commercialization of contact with the community at large and technologies developed indigenously etc. baekwardness. Cd) The technology Policy Statement of The communities fulfilling the above the Government (January 1983) has stated. criteria have been included in the list of "There shall be a firm commitment for abS<\rp- Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. tion, adaptation and subsequent development of imported know-how through adequate (b) Question does not arise. investment in Research and Development to which importers of technology will be (c) to (e). As the specification of expected to contribute. Appropriate incen- Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes is tives will be given to the setting up of R and done while keeping in view the criteria given D units in industry and for industry including in (a) above, there is no need to conduct those on a cooperative basis. Enterprises any such socio-economic study. will be encouraged -to set up Rand D units of a size to permit the accomplishment of Research Work in Industrial Sector major technologiCal tasks." 4231. SHRI V. S. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Will the PRIME MIN1STER be pleased to Energy from Trees state : 4232. DR. KRUPASINDHU BHOI: (a) whether any worthwhile research Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to work is being done by the industrial sector state : in respect of technological innovation; (a) whether an I. S. R. O. Scientist has (b) if so, the amount spent under this' developed the technique to produce energy from trees; head by the private sector and public sector annually; (b) if so, the details thereof; and (c) to what extent the industrial sector (c) the time by which commercial has been benefited by the research; and exploitation of electricity from trees will be (d) whether Government have laid down possible? any policy with regard to the industrial THE· MINISTER OF STATE IN THE research and if so, the details thereof ? MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN LOGY AND IN THE DEVELOPMENTS THE MINISTRY OF SCIENCE OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC AND TECHNOLOGY AND IN ,ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS THE DEPARTMENTS OF OCEAN (SHRI SHIVRAJ Y. PATIL): (a) and (b). DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC ENERGY, Some very preljm~nary studies using metal SPACE AND' ELECTRONICS (SHRI electrodes pierced in some plants and trees SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) and (b). Yes, have been conducted by an lSRO Scientist Sir. to examine low levels of electricity derived from these. Government have a scheme of recogni- sing in-house Rand D units of industries. (c) Since these studies are extremely In 1982-83 out of total Rand D expenditure preliminary it is premature at this stage to of Rs. 2$6 crore incurred by 668 in-house consider commercial exploitation. Rand D units, about Rs. 125 crore was spent by 68 public sector Rand D units. Publication of second part of 'India Wins Freedom' Currently, there are about 900 in-house Rand D units of which 82 are in the 4233. SHRI AMAR ROYPR.h.DHAN : public sector. Will the Minister of CULTURE be pJessed to state: (c) The research work carried out in the industrial sector has resulted in strengthening (a) Whether Government had decide 'India Wins Freedom' written by Shri Abul (d) if so, by what time the company is Kalam Azad; and likely to step up mechanism ? (b) if 60, the details thereof and the . THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE reasons for not publishing the same so far 1 MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND IN THE DEPART~ THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MENT OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND ATOMIC ENERGY, SPACE AND TRAINING, ADMINISTRATIVE RE~ ELECTRONICS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. FORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEV ANCES PATIL) : (a) Yes, Sir. AND PENSION AND IN THE DEPART~ MENT OF. CULTURE (SHRI K. P. ('0) Yes, Sir. SINGH DEO) : (a) No, Sir. (c) Yes, Sir. (b) Does not arise. (d) The company is lik and higtler cost of indigenously Airport to relieve the congestion 00 Calcutta manufactured components. airport; aod (e) if so, the steps being taken in this (ii) Comparatively low level of produc- regard? tion. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (c) As on date, 134 Letters of rntent MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL (valid), accounting for a capacity of 61.0 AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : lakhs and 515 small scale approvals (valid), (a) Yes, Sir. accounting for a capacity of 120 lakhs have been issued. Out of this, 15 TV units, accout- (b) and (c). The runway and associated ing for a capacity of 6.4 lakhs in organised pavements at Bhubaneswar airport are pro- sector and 60 units accounting posed to be resurfaced in the current finan- for a capacity of 18 lakhs in small scale cial year. It is also proposed to increase the sector have reported for production. Total sitting capacity of the terminal building dur- production of Colour TV sets during 1984-85 ing the Seventh Five Year Plan. is about 4 lakhs. (d) No proposal or demand has been (d) and Ce). No, Sir. Colour TV sets received by Government to declare the are now available freely in the market except Bhubaneswar airport as an international for one brand i.e., 'EC TV', manufactured by airport. Mis. Electronics Corporation of India L~d., Hyderabad -a public sector undertakmg. (e) Does not arise. However, Government has taken the !ollow- ing steps to increase the productIOn of colour TV sets in the country: Damage to Public and Private Property in Assam and Punjab due to Agitation (i) Government has issued liberal 4239. SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER industrial approvals both in organi- JAIN : Will the Minister of HOME sed and small scale sectors for AFFAIRS be pleased to state : manufacture of colour TV sets. (a) whether Government have assessed (ii) Liberal imports are allowed for the total damage to public and private pro- perty in Assam because of agitation and in components not being manufactured Punjab due to the agitation and terrorist acti- in the country. vities, till date; (b) if so, the details thereof; Development of Bhubaneswar Airport (c) whether any compensation has been 4238. SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA paid to individuals who suffered the losses; Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL and AVIATION be pleased to state : (d) if so, the details thereof? (a) whether air traffic is increasing at Bhubaneswar airport, Orissa; THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTR Y OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- (b) if so, whether Government are MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) to (d). considering to develop the Bhubaneswar The Information about the total damage to airport including the strengthening of the public and private property in Assam because landing strips; of disturbances in February-March, 1983 and the financial assistance paid in this regard is (c) if l'0, the step!"> being taken in this at Statement-I attached. Information about regard; the damage/loss of such property . in punjab for the perj~d fro.m August, 1982 to January, (d) whether there is a demand to declare 1984 for WhICh Information is available at trn: Bhubaneswar airport as International Statement-II attached. 'l~i Written Answel's VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 122 Statement-I Extent of damage to public and private property.in Assam as a result of activities result- ing disturbances occurred in February-March 1983 and the compensation paid by the Government of Assam Sl. No. Type of damage ~inancial assistance given to tbe State Government 1. No. of educational institution fully 324 68,52,400 damaged 2. No. of educational institutions 369 30,40,000 partially damaged 3. No. of houses fully damaged 51,149} 25,99,000 4. No. of houses partially damaged 1,669 StatemeDt~II Extent of Loss/Damage of public and private property in Punjab as aresult of Violent Inci- dents for the Period from 4th August, 1982 to 3rd June, 1984 S}. Remarks. No. ~ -~------~---'------~- ---. --_ ------, 1. Loss of private property Approx Rs. '75.00 lakhs Assessment in a few cases has stiB not been made. 2. Loss to Public Property Approx Rs. 35.94 lakhs -do- Punjab Government have prescribed a scale for providing relief to the victims whose private properties have been destroyed by mob action and terrorists. Accordingly, each victim will be paid amount equivalent to 50% of the loss suffered as assessed by a Commi- ttee headed by the SDO (C), subject to a maximun of Rs. 50,000 for a landlord, OCCupant of a shop/factory whose/business/factory premises has been burnt/damaged and Rs. 10,000 in case of a house holder in case of loss/damage of household goods. The Deputy Commis- sioners have been authorised to assess the loss and sanction the payment in individual cases in accordance with the scheme so formulated. [Translation] " (c) if so, whether that land was previously under the Forest Department and Soyabean Project, Kota (Rajasthan) now the Rajasthan Government has sought the approval of the Union Government to 4240. SHRI VISHNU MODI : bring the land under the Department of SHRI SHANT! DHARIWAL: Industries; Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased (d) if so, whether Government have Rot to state: that land surveyed; - (a) whether work on Rs. 45 Crore . . (e f ifso, the-details -th~~eof ~~d the tim~ RAJFED Soyabean project at Kota, by which this land is likely to be made>' Rajasthan is going to be started with world avaiJable for the said project; and Bank assistance; (f) if not, the reasons therefor? (b) jf so, whether Rajasthan Government bas made available any land for the said THE MINISTaR OF STATE IN THE project; MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND .' . . . t 2~ Writ~,. Atr.fwen FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) : (a) to (e). Tile (a) the amount of funds allocated for proposal of Rajasthan Government for implementation of 20-Point Programme to release of 39.4 ba. of for.est land !'or the Gujarat State during the year 1983-84 and establishment of Soyabean Project at Kota 1984-85; has been approved by the Government of (b) the details of work done and amount India and the decision communicated to the spent during those years; State Government on 19th Januarry, 1985. (c) the details of funds available for the {f) Does not arise. programme for the year 1985-86 and the [English] allocation made to Gujarat State; and (d) whether special attention is being U. N. Panel on Nuclear Free Zones given to develop the adivasi areas under 4241. SHRI AMAR ROYPRADHAN : the 20-point programme in the country Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS particulary in Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and be pleased to state : Orissa "? (a) whether he is aware of tbe U. N. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Pane] on nuclear free zones having submitted MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. its report; NARAY ANA)N: (a) Outlays for the 20-Point Programme are not fixed separately. These (b) if so, what ·are the main recom- are derived from the Sectoral outlayS, as mendations of the Panel; and the 2O-Point PrQgramme forms an integral part of the Plans of the States. The derived (c) the reaction of Government thereto? outlays for the 20-Point Programme for Gujarat during 1983-84 and 1984-85 work THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE out to Rs. 653.63 crores and Rs. 638.17 MrNISTR Y OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS crores respecti vely. (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : (a) The Group of Governmental Experts appoin- (b) A statement giving the targets and ted ·by the Se:;retary General of the UnIted achievements under the 20-Point Programme Nations to condu..:t the Secon:i UN Study <>n in Gujarat during 1983-84 and 1984-85 is Nu:::lear-Weapon-Free Zones has not been .attached. The expenditure reported by the to finaHse its report. State Government for 1983,..84 is Rs. 643.90 crores and anticipated for 19.84-85 is Rs. (b) and Ccl. Daes not arise. 545.77 crores. Funds fBI' implementatiOJl of 10-Poilit (c) 'The Annual Plan for 1985-86 of Programme in Gujarat Gujarat has not been finalised so far. The 4242. SHRI AMARSINH RATHAWA : outlays for the 20-Point Programme wil1 be Will the Minister of PLANNING be p]eased worked out after the Pllm has been finalised. to state: (d) Yes. Sir. Statement lmpkmentM;'o" of 2O-Point Programme: GUjarat Point ~tem Unit 1983-85 1984-85 No. . Target Achieve- % Target Achieve- % ment Ach. .mont AtIb. 1983-84 1984-.85· 1 2 "3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IA. lrriglltien 'Obb ha. 12'2 76 62.3 127 122 96~f Potential (Anti) 2A. Pulses ·000 Tonne 281 559 194.8 318 474 ]'49.1 ·Production (Anti) 12' Writtefl .dt.lll'Wen V AISAIHA 4, 1901 (SAKA) Writta AruWe'$ llll 1 2 3 4- 5 6 7 8 9 2B. Oilseeds '000 Tonne 2470 2373 96.1 2840 2000 77.5 Production (Anti) 3A. lRDP No. of families 130800 155561 118.9 130800 153380 117.3 3B. NREP Lakh Mandays 86.66 120.5 139.0 85.33 91.5 107.2 le. RLEGP do 83.71 82.1 98.1 4. Surp~us Land Acres 10000 29016 290.16 12000 12943 107.9 6. Bonded Labour Nos. 7A. SC Families Nos. 55000 81359 147.9 50000 68866 137.7 Assisted 7B. S.T. Families Nos. 70000 85420 122.0 70000 78904 112.7 Assisted 8. Rural Water No. of 1000 1610 161.0 1400 1661 118.6 Supply villages 9A. House sites Nos. 40000 84867 212.2 40000 65118 162.8 allotted 9B. Construction Nos. 45000 43290 96.2 45000 45156 100.4 Assistance lOA. Slum Improve- Nos. 72000 79212 110.0 60000 81800 136.4 ment lOB. EWS Houses Nos. 15000 6474 43.2 13500 13380 99.1 llA. Village Nos. 1310 900 68.7 1200 1105 92.1 Electrification llB. Pump Sets Energisation Nos. 22350 12001 53.5 25000 18625 74.5 12A. Tree Planation Nos. Jakh 2680 2884 107.6 3100 2964 95.6 12B. Biogas Plant Nos. 5000 4125 82.5 5420 5421 100.4 13. Sterilisation Nos. 284000 235694 83.0 400000 256454 64.1 14A. PHCs Nos. 14B. Sub-Centres Nos. 500 500 100.0 1169 1183 101.2 15. ICDS Blocks Nos. 16 16 100.0 2 2 100.0 16A. Elementary '000 Nos. 175 175 100.0 175 138 78.9 Education 16B. Adult Literacy '000 Nos. 300 214 71.3 350 214 61.1 17. F.P.S. Opened Nos. 568 317 18. . VSI Units set-up Nos. 5670 5884 103.8 6000 6321 105.;1 127 Written Answers APRIL ,24, 1985 Written Answers 128 Questionnaire to States by Sarkaria (c) the main reasons for and causes Commission which compel them to adopt the extremist 4243. SHRI CHITTA MAHATA: Will view; and the Minister of HOME AFFAIRSbe pleased (d) State-wise percentage of the extre- to state: mists found in TUral and urban belts aed the (a) whether the Sarkaria Commission measures taken to reduce the numbers, if sent its questionnaire to State Government, any? ' political parties and others; and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (b) how many replies to its question- MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS naire have been received by the Commis- (SHRIMATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) sion? No, Sir. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (b) Does not arise. MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- (c) and (d). Generally the main reasons MATI RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) The for the spread of extremists' cult in various Commission had sent the Questionna!re to part of the country are the following: State Governments, recognised political parties, and others in January/February, 1984. 1. Non-implementation of socio- economic measures like Minimum (b) 246 replies/Memoranda have been Wages Act; received by the Commission so far. 2. Unemployment in rural as well as Development of Forest Villagers urban areas; 3. Chaotic communication system; 4244. SHRI AR VTNn NETAM: Wi11 the Minister of PLANNING be pleased to 4. Improper/unbalanced distribution of surplus land among the poor. state : (a) whether the Planning Commission The State Government are aware of the received any proposal from the Ministry of situation and are keeping a close watch over Home Affairs in regard to development of the activities of the naxalites. Action is taken under the law against those found forest villagers; and indulging in unlawful activities. Simul- (b) if so, the action taken or' proposed taneously, various measures for· the socio- to be taken on the proposal ? economic development and improvement of living conditions of the poor are also THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE undertaken. MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K.R. NARAYANAN) : (a) and (b). The Ministry No assessmel)t has been made of the of Home Affairs, in their proposals for the Statewise percentage of extremists found in Backward Classes sector for the Seventh the rural and urban belt. Five Year Plan and Annual Plan of 1985-86 Exploitation of Natural resources in Bay have included an outline scheme for forest of Bengal and Arabian Sea . villages. The Plan is still in the stage of formulation. 4246. DR. VIJA Y A RAMA RAO : Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : Identification of Extremists among Rural and Urban Population (a) whether the natural resources like fish, precious metals, etc. are available in 4245. SHRI GIRIDHAR GOMANGO : the Bay of Bengal and Arabian sea but are Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be not being properly utilised; and pleased to state : (b) if so, the measures proposed to be (a) whether his ministry has undertaken taken to exploit these resources during the any study to identify the extremist bent of Seventh Five Year Plan? the people among the rural and urban population; THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTR Y OF SClENCE AND TECHNO- (b) if so, the findings thereof; LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS 129 Written Answers VAISAKHA 4, [907 (SAKA) Written Answers 130 OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC (b) to (d). whenever specific difficulties ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS are brought to Government's notice, these (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): (a) Detailed have been taken up with the British Govern- survey and exploration work is being carried ment. od in both the seas, namely the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea. Living resources [Translation] such as prawns, lobsters and other shellfish Meetings of Hindi Advisory Committee are being exploited since a long time and 4248. SHRI KRISHAN PRATAP their rate of growth has been of the order SINGH : Will the Minister of HOME of 10 per cent every year, thus doubling AFF AIRS be pleased to state: the total production every ten years. (a) the number of meetings of the Hindi Non-livirtg (mineral) resources such as Advisory Committee of the Ministry of Home ilmenite, monazite, zircon, phosphorite, Affairs held in 1984; rutile, etc. are being located aod exploited from the placer deposits in the continental (b) the resolutions passed in these shelf. meetings; and (b) During the 7th Five Year Plan it is (c) the details regarding implementation proposed to undertake more extensive of these resolutions? survey work and exploration of the above resources using highly sophisticated research THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- vessels. MAT! RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) to (c). The term of the Hindi Samiti expired in Delay in Passport Applications for Entry into England April, 1984. The question of its reconstitu- tion is under consideration and the meetings 4247. SHRI BALASAHEB VIKHE of the Samiti would be possible after its PATIL: Will the Minister of EXTERNAL raconstitution. AFFAIRS be pleased to state : [English] (a) whether Government are aware that Safety Measures for Heavy Water Plant applications submitted by Indians for entry into England are now being delayed by 22 4249. SHRI BANWARI LAL PUROHIT: months; Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : (b) whether this is being used by U. K. as a method to curb immigration without (a) whether the work on the heavy amending laws, since Indians as Common- water plant at Thal-Vaishet in Maharashtra wealth citizens are legally entitled to enter has been initiated by keeping in view all U. K.; safety measures; and (b) if so, the outcome thereof? (c) whether Government have taken up the metter with the British Government; THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE and MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS (d) if so, their reaction in this regard ? OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT. ATOMIC ENERGY, SPACE ANb ELECTRONICS THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) Yes, Sir. MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS The design of the plant incorporates all (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : (a) safety measures. In terms of the Immigration Act 1971 and Immigration Rules framed by the British (b) 'The plant is still under construction. Government, Indian nationals visiting Britain Withdrawal of Membership from UNESCO as "visitors" do not need visa or entry by Canada certificates. Such visitors are allowed entry by the Immigration Officers at the port of 4250. SHRI BRAJA MOHAN entry if they are satisfied of the bonafides of MOHANTY: Will the Minister of EX- the passenger's purpose for visit. TERNAL AFFAIRS be pleased to state: 131 Written Answers APRIL 24, 1985 Written Answers·· 132: (a) whether Canada is pulling out its Will the Minister of TOURISM AND membership from UNESCO following USA CIVIL A VIATION be pleased to state: on the ground that the introduction of new information order and new economic order (a) whether India Tourism Development are against the interests of the developed Corporation has undertaken programme to countries of the world; set up chain of Hotels near the sea shores; (b) if so, what will be its impact on tbe (b) if so, the details of the programme world body; and - of ITDC in this direction; (c) the reaction of Government in this (c) whether some Family Villa Complex regard? are proposed to be set up by ITDC near sea THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE shores; and MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (d) the number of Family Villa Complex (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : (a) proposed to be set up in 1985-86 ? Government is not aware of any official statement from Canada that it would be THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE withdrawing from UNESCO. MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : (b) Not applicable. (a) and (b). ITDC is presently operating (c) Not applicable. two Beach Resorts at Kovalam and Mahaba- lipuram respectively. Under the Jo'int Venture Setting up of Hotels near Sea Shores Scheme, ITDC has decided to set up the 4251. SHRIMATI JAYANTI PATNAIK: following Hotels near the sea-shores :- Name of the Collaborator Scope of the Extimated cost Hotel project (Rs. in lakhs) 1. Puri Orissa Tourism Development 44 rooms 190.00 Corporation 3 Star 2. Pondicherry Pondicherry Industrial Promotion 20 rooms 81.00 Development Investment 1 Star Corporation (c) and (d). ITDC has entered into an \a) how much money has been paid or agreement with Mis. SIMA Hotels and spent on litigation and counsels fees etc. in Resorts Ltd. Bombay to uudertake feasibility cases involving Government of India abroad study of a proposed Family Beach Resort giving year-wise and country-wise expenditure Project at Goa. According to the terms, ITDC (in Indian currency) duriug the last three will be paid a lum'p-sum amount of Rs. 4 years; and lakhs. The Corporation will provide techni- (b) is it not possible to minimise this cal eonsultancy service in planning, designing expenditure by appointing Indian Officers with constructing, furnishing and equipping of the suitable qualifications in Missions were such resort. Subsequently ITDC will direct and expenditure is very high ? supervise the control and performance of all services for proper operation of the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE complex on commission basis. There is no MINISTRY OF .EXTERNAL AFFAIRS proposal for the ITDC itself setting up any (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN).: (a) family villa complex near sea shores. The relevant details are being coJlected from our Missions and Posts abroad and Expenditure on Litigation in Government the Information will be laid on the Table of Cases Abroad the House as soon as it is received. 4252. SHRI MOOL CHAND DAGA : (b) This matter will be considered after Will the Minister of External Affairs be collecting the information as indicated at pleased to state : (a) above. j ~ .... 133 Written Answers VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers i34 [ Tra.nslation] (c) and (d). A seminar on "Brain Drain- India's Performance in Los Angeles causes. consequences and proposed solutions' Olympics was organisation on 17th March, 1985 by a non-governmental organisation as per the 4253. SHRI MOOL CHAND DAGA newspapers reports. Government has not Will the Minister of YOUTH AFFAIRS received the recommendations. AND SPORTS be pleased to state: (e) Does not arise. ·(a) whether the performance of India in Olympic Games held in Los Angeles was very Amount Spent on Fencing Borders disappointing. and if so, the factors responsi- along Bangladesb ble therefor and whether they have been got 4255. SHRI KALI PRASAD PANDEY: inquired into by some impartial person; and Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to state (b) if not, the reasons therefor? (a) the total amount which has been THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE spent till date on the fencing the borders DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH AFFAIRS along Bangladesh; and AND SPORTS (SHRI R. K. JAICHANDRA SINGH) : (a) No, Sir. (b) the work so far done in this regard? (b) Does not arise. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRl- (English] MAT! RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) The CPWD who have been entrusted with the Seminar on Brain Drain work has spent till March 1985 an amount 4254. SHRI KALl PRASAD PANDEY of R<;. 1.22 lakhs on construction/sarvey Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to works on wire fence. state : (b) The survey work on wire fence was (a) whether a large number of bright started on 27th March. 1984 by. the CPWD students from Indian institutions of Science in Dhubri District of Assam after receipt of and Techn6logy opt careers outside their fields the report of a Technical Committee which of specialisation; advised that survey work is to precede before construction work can actually be taken up. (b) if so, the reaction of Government in The work continued up to the last week of regard thereto; April, 1984 after which it was suspended. The work could not be continued later due to (c) whether a s~minar on "brain-drain- floods, monsoons etc. The work is proposed causes. can sequences and proposed solution" to be started soon. was held in New D:!lhi in March, 1885; Settlement of Pension Cases of Civil (d) if so, the recommendations of the and Defence Employees seminar; and 4256. PROF. NARAIN CHAND (e) the steps taken by Government in PAR~SHAR ; Will the PRIME MINISTER implementing these recommendations ? be pleased to state: THE MINISTER OF STA TE IN THE (a) whether Government would undertake MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- a concerted drive to clear all cases of settle- ·r.:OGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENTS ment of pension in respect of Civil and :OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC Defence employees of the Union Government, ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS: as have been pending for over 3 years as on .(SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) It is true date so as to provide adequate relief to the that some students with engineering and scien- pensioners after retirement; tific background opt for careers outside their (b) if so, whether any instructions bave fields of specialisation such as management, been issued to the respective administrative civil services etc. A number of steps have Ministeries to clear all such cases within ·the been taken by the Government to provide shortest possible time; and them suitable opportunities to work within their fields of specialisation. (c) if so. the details thereof 2 135 Written AnsWers THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MUNSI : Will the Minister of TOURISM MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAIN- AND CIVIL A VIA nON be pleased to state- : ING, ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PEN- (a) the number of women staff including SION AND IN THE DFPARTMENT OF air-hostesses in the Indian Airlines Corpora- CULTURE (SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO) : (a) tion; . to (c). The procedure for authorisa- (b) the average number of air hostesses tion of pension, family pension and gratuity grounded per year for other work due to under the CCS (Pension) Rules, 1972, has their age and physical unfitness etc; and been simplified over the years. The policy of the Government is that a retired Govern- (c) the retirement age of the air hostesses ment servant should start receiving pension and male stewards who operate in the flight from the 1st of the month foHowing the as cabin crew? month in which he retires. In order to ensure strict compliance of this policy by the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE various administrative and accounts autho- MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL rities, the procedure for authorisation of A VIA TION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : (a) pension is kept under constant review and is As on 1st January, 1985 there were 1711 lady simplified and improved from time to time. employees in Indian Airlines including 509 With a view to monitoring the settlement of air hostesses. such cases, a proforma has already been (b) No air-hostess has been grounded for prescribed calling for information from the being physically unfit or on grounds of age. various departments in regard to pendency of cases and the steps being taken by them (c) Air Hostesses retire at" the age of 35 to ensure sp~edy final~sation. Besides this, years (extendable upto 45 years) and stewards Secretary, Dep:utment of Personnel and A.R. at the age of 58 years. has written to all Secretari~s of the various Ministries/D~partments suggesting to monitor Coaches Serving in N.I.S. pending pension cases periodically, say, once a year at their level or at least by a Joint 4258. SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS Secretary and by the Head of Department in MUNSI : Will the Minister of YOUTH respect of Attached and Subordinate offices. AFFAIRS AND SPORTS be pleased to The review mly be conducted when the pay state: bills of December are prepared in respect of (a) number of coaches now serving NIS every Government servant particularly to (National Institute of Sports) units in India in ensure that the scrvi::: book of each Govern- each discipline; ment servant is com!)lete in all respects and nominations relating to DCRG, GPF etc. are (b) how many of them were trained made by all Government servants. It is abroad and how many of them are Olympians expec:ed that this will go a long way in or Arjun Awardees or International players achieving the objectives of timely settlement in respective disciplines; of the pension cases. The C and A.G. of (c) whether their performance is satisfac- India has also written to all Accountants tory; and General (concerned with entitlement work) for taking steps to secure prompt settlement (d) if not, reasons therefor? of all such complaints. This Department has also written to the Chief Secretaries of all THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE State Governments/Union Territory Adminis- DEPARTMENT· OF YOUTH AFFAIRS trations in the matter. AND SPORTS : (SHRI R.K. JAICHANDRA With a view to deal with the problems SINGH) : (a) 793. The discipline-wise break~ faced by the retiring/retired government ser- up is given in statement-I attached. vants, the Government has also recently created a separate Department of Pension and (b) The requisite information is siven ill Pensioners' Welfare. statement-II attached. Air Hostesses in Indian Airlines (c) Yes, Sir. 4257. SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS (d) Does not arise. Written Ans'W'ers 1)8 Statement-I committees have visited foreign countries since its constitution in 1976 and the total expendi- The discipline-wise break-up 0/ coaches is as under ture of foreign exchange involved in such foreign tours; (b) the foreign countries visited by the 1. Athletics 108 Committee and the purpose of such foreign 2. Badminton 32 vtsits; and 3. Basketball 58 (c) by what time the Committee propose to finalise its report ? 4. Boxing 18 \ THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Cricket 28 5. MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- 6. Football 87 MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) to (c). Required information is being conected and 7. Gymnastics 55 wi11 be placed of the Table of the House. 10 8. Handball National Park on Border of Manipur and Nagaland 9. Hockey 91 22 4260. PROF. KAMSON MEIJINLUNG: 10. Judo Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to 11. Kho.Kho/Kabaddi 39 state: 12. Lawn Tennis 17 (a) whether there is any proposal to establish a National Park (Wild Life Sanc- 13. Swimming 20 tuary) at Juku valley, on the border adjoin- ing Manipur and Nagaland; 14. Table Tennis 28 (b) the total area of the Juku valley; the 106 15. Volleyball area falling within Manipur and area within Nagaland; and 16. y., eightlifting 28 (c) the steps taken so far for the esta- 17. Wrestling 44 blishment of the said park? 18. Cycling 2 THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Total: 793 MINISTR Y OF ENVIRONMENT AND FORESTS (SHRl VIR SEN) : (a) to (c). Information is being collected from the Statement-II concerned States and will be laid on the tabJe of the Sabha. (i) Trained abroad 72 10 ParaUeI Administration run by (ii) Ex -Olympians Tribal Volunteers (iii) Arjuna Awardees 4 4261. SHRI LAKSHMAN. MALLIK (iv) Ex-Internationals (inclu- SHRI PIYUS TIRAKY :. ding those covered under ii and iii) 32 Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to state : Visits of Committee on Official Language To Foreign Countries (b) whether Government's attention has been drawn to the news-item in the 4259. SHRI K. RAMAMURTHY: Will 'Hindustan Times' dated 12 March, 1985 the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased that the Free Tripura Government of the to state : Tribal National Volunteers led by self-styled (a) how many times the Committee on 'President' is trying to run a parallel admini- Official Language as a whole or its sub- stration in the remote areas of the State; '1 I. . .., 139 Written Answers Written A.n~ wers 140 (b) whether the exteremists are serving (b) whether disciplinary action was tax notices on all sections of the people taken against one thousand and fourteen including villagers, teachers, businessmen employees due to this agitation; and even Government servants; and (c) if so, whether all the . one thousand (c) if so, the details in this regard and and fourteen employees have since been the reaction of Government Thereto ? reinstated; THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (d) if not, the number of employees MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- reinstated and of those who have not been MATI RAM DULARI SINHA): (a) The reinstated so far; and attention of the Government has been drawn (e) the reasons for not reinstating the to the news-item. However, the Government employees so far? does not accept that President. TNV is running a parallel administration in the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE remote areas of Tripura. MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) Yes, (b) and (c). The Government have Sir. . received some such reports. In order to deal with insurgency and to maintain law and (b) Yes, Sir. order, security measures have been tight- (c) to (e). Out of the 1014 police perso- ened. Combing operations in the affected nnel, 51 joined duties on the appeal made by areas have been taken up and strict vigil is the Union Home Minister. 715 were re-ins- being maintained. The strength of Central tated in service. 165 were re-enlisted in Security Forces in Tripura has been Delhi Police. 62 were removed augmented. from service and were subsequently absorbed in Central Police Organisations/ Construction of Big Hotels in Places Delhi Police. 18 were dismissed from service. of Tourist Interest 3 died during the course of the enquiry. 4262. SHRI N. DENNIS ; Will the [English] Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL A VIA- TION be pleased to state : Air Service to and from Sikkim (a) whether there is any proposal under 4264. SHRI PIYUS TIRAKY : Will the the consideration of Government to cons- Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL truct big hotels during the next five years in AVIATION be pleased to state : various places of tourists interest; and (a) whether there is no civil airport in (b) if so, the detaits thereof; Sikkim; and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (b) the time by which Indian Airlines or MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL Vayudoot will start its .services to and from AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : Sikkim? (a) and (b). The Seventh Five Year Plans for India Tourism Development Corporation and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Hotel Corporation of India have not yet MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL been finalised. A VIA TION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): (a) and (b). There is no civil aerodrome in {Trans/ali on] Sikkim. The Director General of Civil Aviation has. however, been asked to locate Reinstatement of Delhi Police Non- a site for construction of an aerodrome in Gezetted Employees Gangtok for operation with a STOL type 4263. SHRI HARJSH RAWAT: Will aircraft. Air services can be introduced only the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased after an airport and the other infrastructure to state: has been developed ~ (a) whether . the Delhi Police Non- Policy Regarding Yatri Niwas G azC'tted Employees Association had started an agitation on the 14th April, 1967; 4265. SHRI VIJAY N. PATIL :. Willthe ]41 Written Answers VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 142 Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL AVIA- (c) jf so, how the Fin~nce Co~mission had a different view? TION be pleased to state: (a) whether Government had decided 10 THE M1NISTER OF STATE IN THE formulate the policy regarding Yatri Niwas MINISTRY OE PLANNING (SHRI K. R. based on the experience of 'Ashok Yatri NARA YANAN) : (a) and (b). In the con- text of the formulation of the Seventh Five Niwas' at Delhi; and Year Plan, the preliminary assessment made (b) if so, the details thereof '? by the Planning Commission in consultation with the State Government shows that, TIlE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE withont taking into account central assistance, MINISTR Y OF TOURlSM AND CIVIL Market-borrowing and assistance from AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): financial institutions, the State's resources (a) Yes, Sir. for the Plan would be negative. (b) Details are being worked Out.· (c) The basis of the assessment of the Eighth Finance Commission is contained in Conservation of Forests its report which is available in the Parlia- ment Library. 4266. SHRI JAGANNATH PATNAIK : Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to Alternatives to Fenci ng on Border with state : Bangladesh (a) whether steps have been taken by 4268. SHRI BALASAHEB VIKHE PATIL : Government for conservation of forests and prevention of illegal feUing of trees; DR. G. VIJAY RAM A RAO : (b) whether there is any proposal to SHRI M. RAGHUMA REDDY: formulate a National Eorest Policy; SHRI C. MADHAV REDDY : (c) whether some guidelines have been DR. KRUPASINDHU BHOI : issued for surrendering the land under forest irrigation and other projects; and Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to state : (d) if so, the details in thi.s regards? (a) whether as reported in Hindustan THE MlNISTER OF STATE TN THE Times dated 31 March, 1985 Government MINrSTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND are considering alternatives to fencing on the FOREST (SHRI VIR SEN): (a) Yes, border with Bangladesh; Sir. (b) if so, whether Government's thinking (b) Revision of National Fo:est ~oIicy has been crystalized; and enunciated in 1952 is under consideratIOn. (c) if so, the details therefor? (c) Yes, Sir. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (d) A statement is laid on the Table of MINISTRY OF HOME AFF AIRS the House. rPlaced in Ubrary. See No. LT- (SHRIMA TI RAM DULARI SINHA) : 1095/85] (a) to (c). The Government propose to Financial Position of Kerala resume the work of fencing along lndo- Bangladesh border SOOD. 4267. SHRI SURESH KURUP: Will Land under Environmental Hazard the Minister of PLANNING be pleased to state: 4269. SHRI BALASAHEB VIKHE (a) the assessment of the Planning PATIL : Will the PR1ME MINISTER be Commission about the financial Position of pleased to state : Kcrala; (a) whether 175 million hectares of waste (b) whether it is a revenue deficit State land out of 304 million hectares ,:rc I~OW under environmental hazard; a.nd 143 Written Answers APRIL 24, 1985 Written Answers 144 (b) if so, whether Government have any Regarding Deputation of Public scheme to develop this land and put it under Officers for Training Abroad cultiva tion; 4271. SHRl D. B. PATIL: Will the (c) the progress made during the last Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to state : three years in reclaiming waste land and how much of it has been put under cultivation; (a) whether police officers were deputed and . to certain institutions abroad for training during the period 1982·83 to 1984-85; (d) the quantum of agricultural produc- tion in that reclaimed land during the Jast (b) the criteria adopted to select police three years ? officers for such training; THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (c) to which institutions the officers were deputed for training; and MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) : (a) An (d) the number of police officers State- estimated total area of 175 million hectares wise deputed abroad for training and dura- is subject to soil erosion and land degradation tion of training in each case? through water logging, saUnity and alkalinity. water erosion, shifting cultivation etc. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- (b) A number of programmes have been MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) (a) Yes, taken up during the various Five Year Plans Sir. to survey such lands and to reclaim some of (b) A statement is attached. the areas. From 1982-83 a specific programme for restoration of fonow lands is in operation. (c) and (d). The information is being collected and wiJ] be laid on the Table of (c) During the last three years about the House. 4.61 lakh hectares have been brought to cultivation and 5.01 lakh .hectares have been Statement. put to afforestation and grassland develop- Suitable of IPS officers for deputation to ment. various training programmes abroad is considered by a High Level Committee which (d) Figures of the exact additional makes its recommendations keeping in view production due to the implementation of this the qualifications prescribed for a particular programme are not available. In Madhya course. The Committee generally adopts the Pradesh and Maharashtra, additional agri- following criteria while making the cultural production of about 29000 tonnes selection: has been achieved in the two years 1982-83 and 1983-84. (i) The officer should possess adequate background of the subject or field Market Development Fund for Tourists in which he would be receiving training; . . 4270. SHRIMATI MADHURT SINGH: (ii) He should have at least three years Will the Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL to serve after the conclusion of AVIATION be pleased to state : training; (a) whether Government propose to (iii) As for as possible· officers who are create a market development fund for not more than 45 years of age are tourists; and recommended unless there are some (b) if so, the details thereof? special reasons which may warrant relaxation of this age limit;, THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF TOURISM AND CIVIL (iv) The officer who has already attended AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT): a foreign training programme of duration of one month or more is (a) Yes, Sir. not recommended again for another (b) The details are being worked out. training programme; 14$ Written Answers VAISAKHA 4; 1907 (SAKA) Written Answers 146 (v) The performance of tlIe officer as (b) the approximate area that is annuaIJy revealed in his ACRs has also the deforested, and the extent of area deforested seniority are given due weightage; so far; (vi) The nominations are made keeping (c) the extent of replantation undertaken in view the training needs of the in this region; and officer and his long term career planning; (d) the detaHs of the steps being taken by the Union Government to curb. future (vii) Officers against whom vigilance/ deforestation ? disciplinary proceedings are pending and those whose over-all perfor- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE mance has been below average MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND sbould not be nominated; FORESTS (SHRI VIR SEN) : (a) to (c). (viii) The claims of officers belonging to Information is being collected from the SC/ST and other backward classes concerned State Governments and will be are given due consideration while placed on the Table of the Sabha. making .selections of officers for foreign training programmes. (d) The steps taken by the Union Govern- ment to curb deforestation are as under Delay in Indian Airlines Flights 4272. SHRI SRIKANTA DATTA (i) The Forest (Concervation) Act. 1980, has been enacted to NARASIMHARAJA W ADIYAR : Will the check Minister of TOURISM AND CIVIL A VIA- indiscriminate diversion of forest lands to non-forest uses. TION be pleased to state : (a) the number of times the Indian Air- (ij) Guidelines have been issued to the lines flights have been delayed during 1984-85. States and Union Territories for the due to technical reasons; preparation of working (manage- ment) plans and the working of (b) the number of flights delayed each forests. time, each day on account of technical prob- (iii) The States and Uninion Territories lems; and have been advised to strengthen the (c) whether Government propose to have enforcement machinery at the field standby aircraft to immediately take-over for level. delayed flights due to technical reasons? (iv) The National For~st Policy is being THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE reviewed to provide the needed MINISTR Y OF TOURISM AND CIVIL thrust in favour of forest conser- AVIATION (SHRI ASHOK GEHLOT) : (a) vation and to create a people's (b). During the year 1984, 1386 Indian Air- movement for this purpose. lines flights out of a total of 1,02,227 flights (v) A massive programme of afforesta- were delayed due to technical reasons, which tion is proposed to be undertaken' represents 1.36% of the total flights, Out of and ' an average of 280 take-offs per day, the number of fljghts delayed due to technical (vi) An in-depth study is being under- reasons was 3.7. taken with a view to work out the modalities for relieving pressure on (c) No, Sir. It is neither practical nor forests, specially by encouraging the economically viable to have standby aircraft use of substitute materials. at different stations for this purpose. (vii) As a measure to relieve pressure on Deforestation in Western Ghat forest resources, fiscal steps have 4273. SHRI SRIKANTA DATTA also been taken. Import of pulp NARASIMHARAJA W ADIYAR : Win the and wood chips, by user industries. PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state : has been exempted from customs duty. Customs duty on wood in (a) the extent of trees that are felled certain specified forms has been lumually ip the Western Ghat resiolli redU(:ed from 100% to 10%. 147 Written Answers APRIL 24,1985 Written Answers 148 Setting up of Atomic Energy Project the Minister of CULTURE be pleased to in Madhya Pradesh state : 4274. SHRI M. L. JHIKRAM : Will the (a) the sites were painted grey ware have PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: been found; (a) whether a survey has been carried out (b) what other artefacts have been dis- in Chutka Patha village near Bargidam in covered at these sites; Madhya Pradesh for setting up an Atomic Energy project there; (c) whether these sites have any relation with the Mahabharat epoch; (b) whether Chutka Patha has been found to be the most suitable place for setting up (d) if so, whether Archaeological Survey this project; of India has made a special study to estab- lish the validity of the Mahabharat legend; (c) if so, the details in this regard; and and (d) the time by which work on this (e) if not, the reasons for disclaiming the project is likely to start ? historical occurrance of such an episode? THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL AND TRAI- MINISTR Y OF SCIENCE AND TECHNO- NING, - ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS LOGY AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF AND PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PEN- OCEAN DEVELOPMENT, ATOMIC SION AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, SPACE AND ELECTRONICS CULTURE (SHRI K.P. SINGH DEO): (a) (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL) : (a) to (d). A number of sites in Northern India like Among other sites in the western electricity Rupar, Sunet. Mathura. Hastinapur, region, some sites in Madhya Pradesh including Bhagwanpura, Atranjikhera, Jakhera. Sonkh. the site near Bargi Dam has been surveyed Noh. Ahichchatra, etc. have yielded painted by the Site Selection Committee constituted grey way. by the Department of Atomic Energy. A (b) This type of pottery is associated final decision with regard to various sites for with copper and iron objects, glass, beads, location of future atomic power plants in the terracotta figurines, etc. western electricity region is yet to be taken. (c) Some scholars hove tried to associate Separate Ministry for Welfare of SCs/STs this pottery with Mahabharata ~ while a few have frefuted it for lack of sufficient material 427S. SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN: evidence. Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to state : (d) and (e). Some scholars associated with the Archaeological Survey of India who (a) whether there will be a separate have studied the question are not unanimous Ministry for the Welfare of Scheduled Castes/ on this point. Since the date of Mababharata Scheduled Tribes; as recorded on the Puranic or astronomical· (b) if so, when; and traditions known in India, and views of the modern Sanskrit scholars and historians are (c) if not, the reasons therefor? not in agreement, it may not be possible to associate any archaeological culture with the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Mahabharata. MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRl- MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) to (c). Methods to Disperse Demonstrators It has not been considered necessary to have 4277. SHRI D. B. PATIL: Wi11 the a separate Ministry for the welfare of sche- Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be . pleased to duled castes and scheduled tribes but the state : existing arrangements in the Ministry of Home Affairs are sought to be made more effective. (a) whether it is a general practice all over the country to resort to firing to dis- Painted Gre) Ware perse demonstrators or mob when they become unruly even though such sever actioJ;l, 4276. SHRI DIGVPAY SINGH: WiU was not waranted in every case; and 149 Written Answers VAISAKRA 4,1907 (SAKA) Written Answers iSO (b) whether Government propose to Payment of Property Tax for disperse demonstrators or mobs by using Janakpuri Flats some other methods such as strong grist of 4279. SHRI RAM SAMUJHAWAN water. wooden or rubber bullets or spreading Will tile Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be peanut of rubber to avoid deaths in firing? pleased to refer to Unstarred Question No. 1644 on 7 March 1984 regarding levy of THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE property tax on MIG Flats in Janakpuri by MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- DMS and state : MATI RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) The use of force on unlawful assembly is gover- (a) the reasons why despite the categori- ned by the Jaw of the land. After an assembly cal statement made by the then Minister of is declared unlawful, it is given enough State in his Ministry against demand of pay- warning to disperse before the use of force is ment of property tax by MCD from the resorted to and it is dispersed by firing as a present allottees of the DDA's MIG Plats last resort in exceptional and extreme circum- in Janakpuri for the priod prior to the date stances when there is imminent and serious of taking over possession by them, these danger to life or property. Firing is generally arrears have been included in the Property preceded by tear-smoke action and lathi- Tax Bills for 1984-85; charge and generally, each action is preceded (b) what action has been taken to sort by sufficient warning. out the matters between the Delhi Adminis- (b) Yes, Sir. Some less lethal systems of tration, Delhi Municipal Corporation and weaponry for dispersal of unlawful assem- the Delhi Development Authority; and blies viz. Rubber Bullet System, Plastic Pellet (c) wheth"r necessary instructions will be System, Catridge Small Arms and Stun issued to the Delhi Administration to sort Grenades and Stun Shells are under develop- out the matter once for all with the D.D.A. ment. and afford necessary relief to the allottees SCs/STs Employees in Project Evaluation concerned? Office Bhubaneswar THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 4278. SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS: MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- Will the Minister of PLANNING be pleased MAT! RAM DULARI SINHA) : (a) to (c). to state : The payment of property tax for the period prior to the date of taking over of physical (a) the total number of employees in the possession by the present allottees of DDA. office of Project Evaluation Office Bhubane- MIG flats in Janakpuri is not being enforced ",war as on the 1st March, 1985. against the allottees in pursuance of a &ci- (b) whether the staff is sufficient to look sion taken by the Delhi Administration that this liability would be settled between the after the affairs of the State of Orissa; and Munsicipal Corporation of Delhi and the (c) the number of SCs and S Ts emplo- Delhi Development Authority. However, yees, category wise as on 1st March, 1985, pending finalisation of the settlement between in the same office ? the two statutory authorities, such demands continue to be shown in the accounts of the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE allottees as a technical requirement. MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. NARAYANAN) : (a) 4 (Four). A clear order has been issued to the Municipal Tax Authorities of West Zone not (b) The function of the Project Evalua- to enforce the recovery of such demands from tion Office at Bhubaneswar is to carry out the allottees. field and other evaluation work assigned to it by the Programme Evaluation Organisa- Bill to Curb Dowry System tion (Headquarters) at New Delhi. The volume of its work has no direct relationship 4280. SHRI AMARSINH RATHAWA : with the affairs of the State of Orissa. SaRI CHINTAMANI lENA: (c) 1 (One) employee at Group CD' level SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS belonging to Scheduled Caste. MUNSHI ; i , Hi Written Answer! Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS Detailed instructions were issued to all the be pleased to state: State Governments and Union Territory Administrations on the subject on 12-9-83. (a) whether Government are aware that A copy of these instructions is laid on- the dowry deaths are increasing in the country table of the House [Placed in Library. See and mostly in the middle and poor families; No. LT-l096j8S.] (b) whether Government have received representations in this regard and if so, the The Indian Penal Code, The Code of reaction of Government thereto; Criminal Procedure, 1973 and the Indian Evidence Act, 1872 have been amended by (c) whether Government are considering the Criminal Law (Second Amendment) Act, to introduce a Bill during the current session 1983 (Act No. 46 of 1983) to deal effectively of the Parliament to further amend the not only with cases of dowry deaths but also existing Dowry Prohibition Act so, as to cases of cruelty to married women. ansure adequate curbs on the system of dowry, and Any representation regarding dowry death as and when received is brought to (d) if so, when '1 the notice of the concerned State Govern- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE ment. MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- MATI RAM DULARY SINHA) : (a) to (d). The Dowry Prohibition (Amendment) The State' Governments and Union Terri- Bill, 1984 to amend the Dowry Prohibition tory Administrations are responsible for Act, 1961 to curb the dowry system was enforcing law relating to offences. The avail- introduced in both the Houses of Parliament able information regarding dowry death cases in 1984 and has since become an Act. There reported during the years 1982, 1983 and is no other proposal under consideration at 1984 is given in the statement attached. present. Statement Dowry death cases reported during the years 1982,1983 and 1984 SI. No. Name of the State/D.T. 1982 1983 1984 ·11 2 3 4 5 1. Andhra Pradesh 4 5 1 (Up to July. 1984 2. Assam Nil Nil 1 3. Bihar 12 15 20 4. Gujarat 1 2 5 5. Haryana 42 71 56 6. Himachal Pradesh 3 2 4 7. J and K Nil Not Received Not Received 8. Karnataka 8 31 4S 9. Kerala Nil Nil Nil 10. Madhya Pradesh 10 Not received Not received 11. Maharashtra 25 3S 68 12. Manipur Nil Nil Nil l • 153 ·Wri"en~ .... VAISAlClIA 4. Ho7 (SAKA) Written dllnl.,. lU 1 2 3 4 5 13. Meghalaya Nil Nil Nil 14. Nagaland Nil Nil Nil 15. Orissa 5 6 22 16. Punjab 51 47 47 17. Rajasthan 24 24 32 18. Sikkim Nil Nil Nil 19. Tamil Nadu 4 3 7 (Up to Sept. 1984) 20. Tripura Nil Nil Nil 21. Uttar Pradesh 151 160 202 22. West Bengal 7 Not received Not received 23. A and N Islands Nil Nil Nil 24. Arun.achal Pradesh Nil Nil Nil 25. Chandigarh 2 2 1 26. Dadra and Nagar Haveli Admn. Nil Nil Nil 27. Delhi 40 41 45 28. Goa, Daman and Diu Nil Nil Nil 29. Lakshadweep Nil Nil Nil 30. Mizoram Nil Nil Nil 31. Pondicherry Nil Nil Nil Inadequate Allocations for Irrigation Plan? to States 4281. PROF. NARAIN CHAND THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE PARASHAR : Will the Minister of PLAN- MINISTRY OF PLANNING (SHRI K. R. NING be pleased to state : NARAYANAN) : (a) Within the constraints imposed by the availability of resources, the (a) whether Government are aware of maximum possible allocations were made for the aware the inadequate allocations for Irrigation in the Plans of the States durina Irrigation to the States during the various the Sixth Plan. years of the 6th Five Year Plan inspite of the fact that Irrigation was placed at No. 1 (b) Statements I and II attached show in 20-Point Programme; State-wise allocations made for irrigation during the last 3 years of the 6th Five Year (b) if so, the exact allocations made to Plan and the State-wise net increase in the each one of the States during the last 3 years irrigated area during each of these years. of the 6th Five Year Plan and the net increase in the irrigated area during each year (c) Irrigation, being an import8llt input of the period under review; and for increasing food production which is one whether the allocations of the States of the major objectives of the 7th Plan wil would be considerably enhanced and irriga- continue to be a priority sector for Planl tion given the top priority ih the allotment of allocation and implementation. The actual funds and the execution of irrigation scheme allocations will depend on the resources in various States during the 7th Five Year available. 155 Wrllien Ailir.eis . StatemeDt-I Statement showing allocation to major, medium and minor irrigalion schemes during 1982-83, 1983-84 and 1984-85. (Rs. crores) 81. Name of State/ Allocation for major, medium and minor irrigation No. UTs. schemes 1982·83 1983-84 1984-85 1. Andhra Pradesh 158.50 142.00 186.34 2. Assam 24.30 28.30 48.36 3. Bihar 203.12 209.0 228.72 4. Gujarat 200.90 235.75 223.66 5. Haryana 65.35 87.66 76.20 6. Himachal Pradesh 6.40 7.30 6.40 7. Jammu and Kashmir 18.43 18.57 21.73 8. Kamataka 98'.58 107.69 129.92 9. Kerala 51.65 66.70 69.20 10. Madhya Pradesh 182.50 211.17 269.50 11. Maharashtra 293.88 341.39 323.56 12. Manipur 8.75 9.25 11.4 13. Meghalaya 1.55 1.55 1.69 14. Nagaland 1.86 2.00 2.25 15. Orissa 86.65 98.50 102.0 16. Punjab 46.20 45.70 45.70 17. Rajasthan - 71.73 83.45 90.25 18. Sikkim 0.90 1.25 1.25 19. Tamil Nadu 43.38 58.37 52.16 20. Tripura 6.05 7.00 7.50 (b) 21. Uttar Pradesh 229.34 248.47 265.29 22. West Bengal 65.51 51.03 40.15** Sub-Total Sates 1856.53 2062.10 2203.23 Sub-Total U. Ts. 20.58 23.0877 23.3'42 GraDd Total 1877.11 2085.1877 2226.512 ** State Plan not yet finalised. Outlay tentative. (b) Tentative. 157 Written A1I8Wer, VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAKA) Written Anlwers ISS Statement-II Statement showing Increase in irrigated area during 1982-83, 1983-84 and 1984-85. (Thousand Heetars gr oss) S1. States 1982-83 1983-84 1984-85 No. (Actual) (actual) (Anticipate9) 1. Andhra 'Pradesh 209.1 166.5 164.9 2. Assam 30.4 42.5 40.2 3. Bihar 286 338 357 4. Gujarat 60 116.6 117 5. Haryana 49.5 42 47 6. Himachal Pradesh 5 4.5 2.2 7. Jammu and Kashmir 5.36 8.77 14.97 8. Karnataka 59.6 55.7 64.1 9. Kerala 28.7 34 56.3 10. Madhya Pradesh 135.8 165 169 11. Maharashtra 145.6 250.9 187 12. Manipur 48.4 6.6 10 13. Meghalaya 2.9 1.5 4 14. Nagaland 2.8 3.2 3.5 15. Orissa , 47 86 91.7 16. Punjab 67 57 51.9 17. Rajasthan 67.5 53.7 55.2 18. Sikkim 1 1 1 19. Tamil Nadu 38.59 53 58 20. Tripura 2.1 1.3 1.65 21. Uttar Pradesh 788.1 783.46 787.4 22. West Bengal 73.8 74.4 89.3 Sub-Total States. 2114.25 2345.63 2023.32 FiJUres in respect to certain States are tentative and need further review. 159 Moll"" Re : APRIL 24. 1'85 Situatio" in Allmedllbotl 160 Visit of Polish Prime Minister "That this House do consider the 4282. SHRI UTTAM RATHOD : statement made by the Minister of Home Affairs in the House on 23 -4-1985 PROF. NIRMALA KUMARI : regarding the Ahmedabad situation." SHRI AMAR ROY PRADHAN : PROF. MADHU DANDAVA1E Will the Minister of EXTERNAL (Rajapur) : Do we take it that he has AFFAIRS be pleased to state : already moved arid we can start the debate right now? (a) wbether any agreements were entered into for bilateral co-operotion between India MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER:·I will fix and Poland during the recent visit of the the time. Polish Prime Minister to Delhi; and Mr. K. K~ Tewary to initiate the dis- (b) if so, the details thereof? cussion. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (Interruptions ) MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER He has (SHRI KHURSHEED ALAM KHAN) : (a) already initiated, I will not allow anybody Yes, Sir. else ..•• (b) An agreement for cooperation in (Interruptions) radio and television broadcasting was signed PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : on February 12, 1985 by Secretary, Ministry Usually the representative from the largest of Information and Broadcasting on behalf Opposition Group will initiate the debate. of the Indian Government and by the Chair- man of the Polish State Committee for Radio THE MINISTER OF PARLIA- and Television Broadcasting on behalf of the MENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI H. K. L. Polish Government. The agreement provides BHAGAT) : The Home Minister has already for exchange of radio and television pro- moved the motion. The Opposition also grammes and of personnel. wants a discussion. The Government also wants a discussion. The Home Minister has 12.01 brs. moved the motion. So let us have the discus- sion straightaway. MOTION RE: SITUATION IN AHMEDABAD MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before that I want to have one small item disposed of [English] the papers to be laid. SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS : rose PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: That (Interruptions) can be taken up later on. That is not the convention of the House. He has already MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : All of you moved the motion and the debate has started. please sit down. It cannot be interrupted by anything else. (Interruptions) PROF. K. K. TEWARY: Mr. Deputy MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : I will come Speaker, Sir, the happenings in Ahmeda- to you. Please sit down. bad ... Mr. Chavan. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Sir. THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS I rise on a point of order. (SHRI S. B. CHAVAN) : I beg to move : Normally the procedure is that even from "That this House do consider the the Treasury Benches when the motion statement ma'de by the Minister of Home is moved. either the mover of the motion Affairs in the House on 23-4-1985 makes his observations in the beginning or if regarding the Ahmedabad situation." the debate begins. it is the leader of the largest opposition group in the House who MR. papUTY SP~AK~R: Moti9n makes the first speech. Then alternately the moved ; speakers are called. That is the cQnveptiop. 161 Motion Re: VAIS~KHA 4.1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 162 But you are at liberty to break the conven- (English) tions and set a new precedent, but it is MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Order. left to you. Order. If silence is not observed I will not SHRI H. K. L. BHAGAT : He has allow further discussion. already moved that his statement be taken into consideration. It is a Government (Translation) motion and that takes precedence. SHRI V. TULSIRAM : Our Prime PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: The Minister is present here. I have great respect Parliamentary Affairs Minister is yet to learn for him. I was a member of fifth and sixth parliamentary proced ures. Lok Sabha also. I know that Shri Rajivji is a thorough gentlemant. Previopsly he was [Translation] not in poJitics, but it is a mettr of chance that he entered politics. His intention is good SHRI v. TULSIRAM (Nagar- and for that we respect him. I would like to kurnool): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in invite the attention of the Hon. Prime the situation prevailing in the Gujurat State Minister to the situation of lawlessness which at present, it is to be seen whether any is at present prevailing in Gujarat. The life Government has been or has not been and property of the poor people and others functioning there. In the Gujarat State, are in danger. Their property is being burnt. offices of the Press were burnt by policemen. Steps should be taken soon to protect them. They also beat up the press photographers As I have already said, the Opposition and other pressmen. The whole of Gujarat Members will also support him if he takes is burning. It is all due to the malfunction- good steps, but we shall not support him ing of the State police. Even our friends who if his actions are not· good. We the opposi.. are sitting opposite think that the incidents tion Members would welcome every good which have been taking place in Gujarat action of the Prime Minister. The Prime have not been good, but they are not expres- Minister should take steps to gets the sing this view openly. It is a matter of regret. Gujarat State Government dismissed. If it is Though they are feeling unhappy over the done we would be grateful to him and thi'S incidents which have been taking place in the step would enhance his prestige in the minds State, they prefer to keep mum a bout the of the Opposition. same. [English] As you know, the Gujarat Governmet have completely failed in maintaing the law MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I request and order situation in the State. So, there hon. Members that when other members are is no justification for the continuance of the speaking they should not give them any pro- present Government in the State. This vocation. I say this to all sides of the House. Government should be dismissed. The Army I request Members to be silent because ,he was also sent there, but they have also not Members want to express their ideas. So. been able to cope with situa.tion prevailing please do not intervene in the Members' in the state. speeches. The time allotted is only 2 hours. [English] Therefore, members may please try to rest· riet themselves within this time. SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Sir, he has not been supplied with a copy of the PROF. K. K. TEWARY (Buxar): Mr. statement. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the happenings in Gujarat have agitated the minds of the hon. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The state- Members; they are equally agitating the ment was made yesterday. minds of the people outside this House. I am very much disappointed to hear the speech [Translation] made by the previous speaker. After all the SHRI V. TULSIRAM: Had it been a sound and fury about Gujarat I did not Non-Gongress Government. the present expect the first speaker to reduce this matter Government in the State would have been to this level. It has after all greater dimen- dismissed. Since it is a Congress Government, sions to it. If you really want to understand so it is still continuin~ the problem, violence of course, has taken " 163 Motion Re: APRIL 24, 1985 Situation in Altmedaf>ad 1$ place but violence has not dropped from the in destabilising the Governmen.t of Madatn · high heavens. There are reasons for this Gandhi in 1977, the same ** who was being · violence. If you are interested in peace and blackened with all kinds of accusations,~ stability in the co~ntry and harmonious the same man.-migrated from our party and social and political relationship in the country joined the ranks of the people who had pro- then you will have to analyse the causes mised to usher in an EI Darado in India. which lead' to this ugly and monstrous eruptions in our country and give a bad It promised to usher in a brave new name to our democratic process and dcmocra- world in India with the dawn of that ram- . tic polity. shackle combination calJed the Janata Party . Sir, if we realJy want to understand this scenario, this terrible scenario in Gujarat, we Talking about Gujarat my mind goes to will have to look at this background. Even a similar agitation launched by more or less now, the agitation is going on. What hap- the same combination in 1974. You will pens? The forces of destabilisation are at ,remember, Sir that in 1974 an agitation of large. Let us not forget the assasination of similar dimension, of similar intensity, was Madam Gandhi. Let us also not forget that launched. Mrs. Gandhi was the Prime freedom, unity and oneness of the people Minister then and she became the target of of India is not guaranteed, is not protected ,virulent calumny and tirades. This agitation by any political party or group of political ·was started by an organisation which suddenly parties. rt is the people of India who have came into being and was called Nav Nirman stood for freedom of India. I~ is they who ::Samiti. Let us not forget the background of have fought for liberation of India and ,what happened in 1974. Madam Gandhi was protected the prestige and integrity of the -victor in the war for restoration of human nation. When we were ruled by the British, ,rights in Bangladesh, After that she had we had no army and we had no police force. ·taken monumental historic decisions for Who fought for freedom? Who fought for 'socio-economic changes, basic changes in our the freedom of the people of India? It is siociety, namely. the abolition of privy the people of India who fought, led by purses-that ramnant of feudalism and then Mahatma Gandhi, Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru ·the nationalisation of banks, which promised and Maulana Azad under the banner of the justice to the down trodden people. A Indian National Congress. So resurgence of promise was made for ushering in a real India was ushered in through this mighty egalitarian social order. This was too much political party. for the people who were out to debunk the historic achievements of Madam Gandhi. On When danger came after the assasination the one hand the same forces acclaimed her of Shrimati Indira Gandhi, it is the same -as Durga, as Mother of the nation; and on people of India, who had fought the British the other hand, when she acquired fame and Empire under the inspiring leadership of the reputation and got the confidence of the Congress and Mahatma Gandhi, the same people of India they became active and the people rose as one and fought against the for- -product of the process of destabilisation ces of destabilisation, subversion, murde.r, · started, which resulted into what was called chaos and anarchy and it is they who streng- total resolution. To+al revolution was the thened the hand of Rajiv Gandhi. Shri Rajiv produc":,-a very llgly product-of the pro- Gandhi was voted to power just not tv become cess ,of destabilisation, the instruments of Prime Minister of India, but to guarantee destabilisation and the forces of destabilisa- the .freedom of this vast country, to protect tion and it is an irony of fate that ** who the heritage that we have got the heritage of is now an hon. leader of a political party, freedom, the heritage of our struggle against that is, the Janata Party, was our leader then imperialism, the heritage of fighting against in the Assembly. When he was in the cong- communal and obscurantist forces who have 'ress he was accused of all conceivable vices, always been at their game in dividing and of all kinds of corruption. A propaganda was weakening our country. Those people were started against him. But after the agitation sent out on political holiday by the people of subsided, after this country faced black pros- India. I can name the political parties, 'peet. and when total revolution succeeded Janata, BJP and RSS. These people were .* Not recorded. 16~ Motion Re : VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad t66 . sent out on political holiday by the people of asways been factors of de-stabilization, and India because t!tey realised that those people to their mentors abroad. cannot do anything. they cannot guarantee Similarly. the same forces are ganging up the freedom of the people, they canDot again, and the ugly incidents in Gujarat guarantee the integrity of India. Therefore, started with reservation. I do not think the Congress (I) under the Jeadership of Shri Opposition is very clear, very unequivocal on Rajiv Gandhi wa<> voted to power, precisely the issue of reservation, so far as Harijans for the reason that the people of India were and tcibals are concerned. That is un- deeply apprehensive. genuinely apprehensive questionable, and our Prime Minister has about the threat to the continued freedom made statements to this effl:ct-and the of India, and about the threat to the conti M Home Minister also-about the constitutional nued independence and integrity of India. guarantees given to the oppressed people, In this backdrop. how can we forget the people who remained disinherited, disposees- statements made by no less a person than** sed of their basic human rights for centuries. ,the leader of the Janata Party, the General They will continue to enjoy the constitutional Secretary of the Janata Party. He said, "We guarantees. We have stated it, and we stand have lost at the hustings. We have lost the by it. elections. but we will take politics to streets So far as reservations for backward and we will not allow this." classes are concerned, we have shown the (Interruptions) path. (Interruptions) The Opposition parties are talking of a national consensus about SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: How can reservation for the backward classes. We he make allegations against a person who is took the initiative, without caring for what not in the House Sir? (Interruptions) the Opposition said. If they have any love AN HON. MEMBER: He is said that. for the poor people, they should come out ·jn unequivocal terms, in clear terms, that they SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : He has not are for reservation. But they have just been said that. (Interruptions) beating about the bush, they have been running with the hare and hunting with the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : It is not an hound. On the one side they support the - al1egation. 'The name will not go on record. reservations, and then quietly and surreptiti- (Interruptiolls) Why are you raising it again? ously they go and instigate people who are The name will not go on record. Please sit opposed to reservation. This policy of dog down. in the manger is very simple thing. There is a famous saying that if you lose, or if you PROF. K. K. TEWARY : J am referring cannot enjoy the fruits, you will not allow to a political party and to the conduct of the political party or parties. After the massive others to enjoy them. Why don't the Oppo- sition leaders come out openly? victory of the Congress (I) people stood by . us. Why? People avenged the death Our Government took the initiative, gave of Madam Gandhi and they guaranteed a certain percentage of reservation to the the freedom of the country. After that Sir, backward classes in Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh a conspiracy has started and I make this and other places. Who were responsible for statement with full responsibility. unleashing this reign of terror? It is the Opposition, particularly the BJf. the people Those political parties which were now who have been arrested in Gujarat. reduced to the state of insignificance started DR. A.K. PATEL (Mehsana) : I strongly plotting; and I can tell the House and protest . . the Government also : 'Let us not undermine : the potenialities of these.' Now it is Gujarat. PROF. K. K. TEWARY : The Home :·SirniJar incidents are being planned all over Minister should clearly tell the HOuse details . ··tbe country, as it happened in 1971 when about what is happening. The Home Minister Madam Gandhi's victory was not tolerated, must come out clearly and state, lay on the' was not acceptable to the people who have Table of the House, the details of persons ~ Not recorded . :... * , . 167 Motion Re : Situation ,,, Ahmedabad 16& arrested during the agitation. and their a war of calumny against the Chief Minister, political affiliations. I assert that the Janata bringing all kinds of allegations. So, you can Party. BJP - and RSS-these three retro- discern the pattern. While the agitation ·is grade force. reactionary forces combined; and on in Gujarat, the Chief Minister is sought a plan was hatched, because they were wait- to be arraigned in the House. sought to be ing for an opportunity; and without caring pilloried in the house, sought to be put in the for the economic betterment of the people for cock. That Chief Minister loses credibility; whom reservations had been done. they took Congress Government in Gujarat loses this opportunity to organize the students. credibility; and from this the agitationists. The students have been used as the cannon they derive strength, derive sustenance and fodder. They have·always been the cannon they carry out their agitation. Therefore, I fodder of the Opposition. The Opposition at least personally and I am sure my govern- will never come in front. From behind. they ment will also see, perceive the pattern of will pull the strings, and the young boys were destabilization. This is going to spread, the again brought to the foze-this time in threat held out by the opposition that now Gujarat. politics will be decided -401 members majo- rity in Lok Sabha is of no consequence; they A Nav Rachna Samiti or something has said, it is of no consequence; we will reduced been launched, a Samiti promising new to nothingness and we will take politics to reconstruction of society has been floated. I the street. Gujarat is the first manifestation charge the Opposition with full responsibility of this diabolical plan which was hatched of backing this up. (Interruptions) here and it has the support outside the borders of India. Therefore, I request the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : When he is Government to be very very careful in future speaking, why are you interfering? Then and our law and order machinery needs to be your tum comes to speak, you can -reply. strongthened because of these forces of PROF. K. K. TEWARY : I charge them destabilisation, instrument of subversion with exposing the people of Gujarat to this because of casteism and communalism. kind of a violence. It is very instructive, very interesting and very revealing how the In India, let us try to analyse these factors; agitation which started with a clear stance of there are factors; political, socio-economic the agitationists, viz. that reservation should factors. In India, you cannot apply economic not be given to backward classes, suddenly factors for this. Somehow, people have turned into a communal riot. become storical, resigned to their fate. It is only religion which can play havoc; it is only Not only the poor sections, the Harijans, casteism which can play havoc. So, the and the backward, they were made target of pattern of destabiIisation was scientificaJly attack. From casteism, it turned into com- planned; it is a scientifically planned pheno- munalism, sheer shameless communalism; menon; it is applied to third world countries, and tl]e houses and areas inhabited by the to areas which are vulnerable. In India, helpless minority were exposed to the on- casteism, regionalism, linguism and overall slaught of hoodlums and brigands with torches communalism, these are the areas in wbWh burning in their hands; they marched in to forces of destabilisation work. So, Gujarat these localities and houses were razed to again I repeat is the firest manifes- ground, destroyed. Children, old men and tation and the first success also I will say of women were killed by these people. the forces of destabilisation, forces of anara. chism which have ceased to be relevant to What the State would have done? The society, forces of communalism represented State intervened; the Chief Minister interve- by BJP and Janata; Janata represented ned; and while this agitation was going on, subversion, destabilisation; BJP represented an hon. member of this House, Prof. the worst example of communalism, reviva. Dandavate-I think there be no objec- will lism, and obscurantism. Therefore, the Gowm. tion since he is present in the House; he is ment has to be very very careful, about member of the House- the violence that has taken place, I am really proud of the law and order machinery in AN HON. MEMBER: He has gone out. Gujarat, that in spite of these planned PROF. K. K. TEWARY : Unleashed attacks, they have stood the ground; the)' 169 Malia" Re : VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAgA) Situation in Ahmedabad 170 are facing bravely the agitation; and people and as the news of Madam' assassination who have been killed, naturally, we are spread in the country, naturally the Jaw and all sorry for them. But the bigger dimension order machinery was disrupted. must not be lost sight of. There was so much SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. furor when 1 referred to this. Can you deny DEO : We did not know that the murder the leader 1 referred to. Where is ** He is was expected. in V. K; he is addressing meetings in Gur- dwaras. I can give you an example. In PROF. K. K. TEWARY : These people. The Times of India, there is a report that who planned it, so much planning was done, supporters of Khalistan, (Interruptions) unleashing terror against the Sikhs, and unnecessarily we were blamed. This aspect of SHRI V. KISORE CHANDRA S. DEO I the situation unfortunately has not been (Parvathipuflim) : He is speaking non-stop. realised now. (Interruptions) When we speak, you should not object to that also. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Please (Interruptions) wind up. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please sit PROF. K. K. TEWARY: Five minutes more. down. Whether is not relevant will not go on record. I will see. The name will not go In this scenario, in this background. 1 on record. would also like to bring to the notice of the House the role of the High Court in Gujarat. PROF. N. G. RANGA : Let them deny I would not like to cast any' aspersions on that he is addressing meetings in Gurdwaras. the Hon. High Court, but it is very Why should he not mention his name? (Interruptions) intriguing that the judgment at this pitch was announced, when violence was taking place, when people were being killed, the High PROF. K. K. TEWAR Y : The gentleman Court passed a judgment. This is unprece- happens to be in the U. K. now. There is a dented in the history of the judicial history. report in today's Times of India. He has been This must be the first precedent in the judi- addressing pro-Khalistan audiences in Gur- cial history of the world. dwaras in the U. K. and he has made inflammatory sp.'!eches, anti-Ind:an speeches SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. in all those Gurdwaras. How can you defend DEO : He is casting aspersions on tbe him? His role in Punjab is well-know. judgment of the High Court. Similarly, I would also refer, since I am PROF. K. K. TEWARY ; The Police talking about a very troubled spot in the force is restrained from going to certain areas country-Gujarat -and it will not be out and an inquiry is ordered by the Court. of place to refer to similar incidents else- (Interruptions) where. PROF. MADHU DANDAVA TE: I rise In Delhi it happened. The communal on a point of order. carnage in Delhi which followed the PROF. K. K. TEWARY : There no assassination of Madam Gandhi is relevant. point of order. I am not yielding. I do not know how up till now mind has not . been applied to find the reat culprits for the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: How Delhi carnage. _As Madam Gandhi was can he say that there is no point of order ? You have to decide it. You cannot prohibit assassinated, people who had planned the assassination, people who were expecting the me from raising a point of order. Far from assassination of Madam Gandhi-I ascert Mr. Tewary, you too cannot prevent me from raising a point of order. this-tbis made the Government alert to this dimension of the tragedy which foIJowed Sir, according to the constitutional provi. the assassaination of Madam Gandhi in Delhi sions neither the Judges of the High Court or (Interruptions) The people who expecting the of the Supreme Court can actually comment murder, the people who had planned the on the working functioning and working of murder, they had kept their powder ready, the Parliament and conversely. (Interruptions) .* Not recorded. t7i Motion Re: -APIUt 24, 1985 Situation in A/vnedahQd 112 AN.HON. MEMBER : He has done it. ing, how can I listen to anybody ? PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I am PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I have referring to it. And, similarly. no Member not collectively raised the point of order. of Parliament can discuss the conduct of the I have singly raised the point of order. You Judges of the Supreme Court and the High tried to explain to me about this. When Courts and therefore I object to his reference referring to a judgment I can understand it to the High Court Judges. but they have tried ~o refer to the judge~ MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He has not that they have done this or that, how can mentioned any Judges. they do it ? This is the conduct of the High Court. I have no objection to Mr. Tewary SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S.DEO: referring to any judgment. We had referred He has referred to the Judgment given by to judgment in the past. Golaknath judgment the High Court. He has . referred to it. We was discussed here. But you are referring to will also refer. the judges. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Anything is -MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: If it is not that is referred to about the conduct· of the relevant I will not allow. I will see. You sit judges will be expunged . . down. (Interruptions) MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : If there is PROF. K. K. TEWARY: I am sorry anything objectionable, it will not go on at this naive attempt of Mr. Dandavate to record. I have already said it. distort my statement. He bas been referring to such judgments very often in this House. PROF. K.K. TEWARY: Mr. Dandavate What I referred was a news item about has made a vary naive attempt. this judgment. My view is that this judg- ment was untimely. When the agitation (Interruptions) was at its height barring the policemen by MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Whatever is declaring certain areas of Ahmedabad as irrelevant it will be expunged. I have already out of bounds for policemen, that exposed said it. the population in these areas to the assaults of hoodlums, trouble makers and also attack SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA on police. That had enraged them. So S. DEO: You cannot allow these things. because of tbis, tl_lis unfortunate situation (Interruptions) took place. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I am . I will come to the important aspect reading article 121 of the Constitution : which hao;; taken place i.e. the role of the "No discussion shall take place in police. They have been over-stretched in Parliament with respect to the conduct Gujarat. Police forces observed their duties of any Judge of the Supreme Court or of They have done their best to maintain law a High Court in the discharge of his and order. Whatever failures have· taken duties except upon a motion for present- place, that speaks valu(ne about the agitatio_ns ing an address to to the President pray- and intensity of the people, who have been ing for the removal of the Judge as organising and whipping up this agitation. hereinafter provided." So, this is not the failure of the police force. They, day in and day out, have MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Regarding been blaming the police force and our armed . 'the conduct you cannot discuss, but regarding forces. which is unnecessarily demoralising . the judgment you can discuss. them and it helps the people who want to destabilise our country, create trouble alld PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : But : fish in the troubled waters. . be referred to the role of the High Court. In conclusion I will say that we are all (Interruptions) concerned with this situation. Any attempt MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : I request all to blame the Government or to demand the of you to sit down. I have already given my ouster of the Chief Minister should not be ruling'" (Interruptions) Why is everybody entertained and no attempt should be made shouting like this? When everybody is argu- to demoralise the police force and nur 1j3 Motion Rt : VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Situat ion in.Ahmedabad 1-'1 AnDY. I know that there is a calculated MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I request all attempt to demoralise and defame our of you to be silent. Let him Speak, why are Armed Forces. So, in such situations they you disturbing? Only twe hours have been become ineffective or they get demoralised. allotted to this and there so many othel: This attempt is being made. Therefore, in Members who are to speak. conclusion, I say that this Gujarat situation PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE has not suddenly arisep, careful planning Normally I do not mind heckling but due to' bas gone into it. Many people" in the country the election campaign, my voice is chocked, and outside are trying to create more such otherwise I appreciate ...... (interruptions). trouble spots. Therefore,. the Government You see me in the chamber outside. must be careful and the people of the country, through this House, must be Sir, while giving my views on the Motion alerted to this danger of destabilisation in that I have moved, I wish to make one thing the country. explicitly clear on behalf of the Janata Party~ Our irrevo<:able commitment to the guarantees MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : The that are given to the Scheduled Castes, Substitute Motion;; give up to one O'clock Scheduled Tribes and the Backward Classes will be taken into consideration. in the country on the basis of the sacred PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Within Constitution of the country. We are second five minutes I have given, Sir. to none in standing by the irrevocable commitment to the Constitutional provisions - MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is and guarantees, and therefore ... (Inlerrup- still time, you can give up to one O'clock. lions). Sir, let them get up, I am prepared Now Prof. Dandavate. to yield. I wish to make it very clear that PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Mr. our irrevocable commitment to the Constitu- Deputy Speaker. Sir, first I will read the tional guaranttees given to the Scheduled Substitute Motion that I propose to move. Castes. Scheduled Tribes and Backward · While condemning the ...... (Interruptions). Classes remains completely irrevocable and we do not wish to have any reverse from MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Professor, that. Certain aspects of the problem, spelling your Motion is still under consideration, You out the details, the medalities of working out can speak on the subject. Copies of the the guarantees, are the ones on which national ·Motion they will just circulate. conssensus can be arrived at. I am quite PROF.MADHU DANDAVATE : Do sure, tomorrow if the Government makes · you want me to speak on the Motion first an effort-on one occasion the Prime and formulate the Motion afterwards? Minister has already made a statement to that effect,-in that case we will not be MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : No, it is lacking in offering the cooperation so that a under consideration and will be circulated. national consensus can be evolved on the · You can speak on the Motion. modalities of implementing the guarantees that are to be given to the Scheduled Castes PROF. N.G. RANGA: Let him read, Scheduled Tribes and Backward Classes. The Sir. No harm. problem is not that. Ac tually, the original PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE ; I can problem why we srarted the agitation in · assure you. Sir, I will read exactly what I Ahmedabad, has been side-tracked. For some · have submitted. "While condemning the time it actually stirred back into communal unprecedented violence and arson in Ahmeda- trouble and communal conflagration. When bad. the a trocities by the police and their the Home Minister visited Ahmedabad in violence against the Press and total break- the past and came back and reported to this · down of the Constitutional Machinery in House, he did not make a single allegation Gujarat State, the House recommends that against she Opposition parties then. · the Union Government should effectively and But within a few days, when the Prime .immediately intervene to restore normalcy in Minister visited Ahmedabad, in a Press . -Ahmedabad." Conference, he blamed the Opposition and he Before I place my observations on the said that the Opposition was responsibJe for . Motion .•. ... (Interruptions). the disturbances and riots in Ahmedabad. 17~ Motltm Re : APRIL 24; 198' Situation in Ahmedobtrd 176 We recorded our strongest protext in the . SHRI B. K. GADHVI: What was House and we withdrew from the House to exposed? record our protest. So. we wish to put the record straight that the Opposition does not PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Do want to side with any-one who tries to dis- you want me to tell these things? Since turb peace, who tries to threaten the interests he is asking for the clarification. I will of Gujarat. We want normalcy in Gujarat. clarify. You know the manner in which at a throwaway price, the land was given for But what is the role the police has to a stadium in the name of Mrs. Indira Gandhi. play and what is the role the Army has to Mrugesh wanted to build that stadium. The play? The very fact that the Army was Cricket Control Board wanted to bund that inducted into Gujarat-it was deployed in stadium. At a throwaway price, the land Ahmedabad and the sensitive posts were was actually given. It was left to 4 MPs, 7 occupied by the Army-indicates that the MLAs and 20 District Congress Presidents normal machinery in Gujarat has totally of Gujarat to write a letter to Mrs. Indira broken down. If the police machinery was Gandhi saying that .this would bring them perfectly in order and they were capable of into disrepute. Another Antualay is in the controlling the situation end if they were not making. So, please do not allow your name to become a party to the disturbances in to be given to the stadium. The Gujarat Ahmedabad, the Central Government wou1d Samachar wrote on this episode. The Gujaral not have been requested to dep10y the Army Samachar wrote editorials and they have in Gujarat. Sir, according to the rules and issued write-ups on the misbehaviour of the provisions of the Constitution, the Army does policemen. For all this, they are very angry not step into the picture unless the State and at a later stage, after this Mrugesh affair concerned asks for the deployment of the known through the editorial which appeared Armed Forces. So, they themselves have in the Gujarat Samachar, actually the made it clear that the existing police machi- Government advertisements to the Gujarat nery in Gujarat was not able to control the Samachar were discontinued. Please remember situation. that the entir matter went to the Pre"!> Council. The Press Council took cognizance I carefully reJ.d the statement that has of this episode and the Press Council really been made by the hon. Home Minister upheld the petition that was field by the yesterday under repeated pressures. In that Editor of the Gujara! Samachar. Ultimately certain elements were very clear. the observation made by and the decision of the Press Council was that in discontinuing Throughout th'! statl!ment, with a micro- the advertisements to the Gujarat Samachar scope. I was trying to find out whether at the Government had indulged in vindictive any place the Minister ha'> condemned the attitude. That was what the Press Council has destruction of the Press. Sir, there is a said. method in their madness. I want to point out to you and I want to go on record that it is This was all said. As a result of that, the not for nothing that the Gujarat Samachar police were angry, the Government was angry has been attacked, their establishments destro- and they wanted some opportunity. yed and their Press has beed destroyed and There are so many newspapers in the burnt to ashes. There is a method in their country. Why did they Pick up Gujaral madness. Why did the police do it? I Samachar? Why did they Pick up Indian want to draw the attention of the House to Express? Why did they Pick up Janasalta ? the fact that the Gujarat Government was The police were asked to attack the Press ... formerly giving advertisements to the Gujarat Samachar. Afterwards when disturbances PROF. K.K. TEWARY : Baseless. took place in Ahmedabad, the Gujarat PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: You Samachar was critical about the behaviour of carefully read the statement of the Home the police. They have editorially condemned Minister. The Home Minister said that the the atrocities of the police. They have also police acted under provocation. He has brought out very strongly, some of the admitted that the police resorted to violence. malpractices that had taken place in the It is an rcc~pted fact that petrol bombs were Government. They had exposed the Mru~esh thrown at Gujarat Samachar. Indian Express affair. They have exposed ... ~nd Janasatta by the police. All tQi~ has VAISAKHA 4.:1~7 (~~KA) Situation in Ahmedabad 178 been established and, as a result of that, the judgment of the High Court referred as certain situation developed. to under what limitations the Police had ~ work to maintain law and order. I am sure. on one aspect, the members on both sides of the House will be in total PROF. MADHU DANDAVATF; There agreement on the behaviour of the police in -are three wings of the Indian Union, not certain areas. It has not been contradicted. three wings of the Government. One of the To cow down the people in their resistence text-books in Civics bas described Parlia- to tbe police, in one- particular locality of ment, executive and judiciary actually as Ahmedabad, 30 policemen and some of tbe three wings of the Indian Government. I am officers took off their uniforms, they becan:e coming with a privilege motion against that. ~i-n,aked and they -paraded in certain We will discuss it separately. Indian Union streets, Tbe Congressmen have recorded has got three wings. Whenever People want protests. They said, "we do not agree with justice, whepever people wan~ protection, the agitation; we do not disagree with the they can seek protection from the executive; Qovernment. But the way some pulice they can seek protection from Parliament officers and rank and file of the police were by way of Memrers of Parliament giving directed to terrorise women abominable. It expression to the anger of the people. If they is the women who were in the forefront fail to get justice from Parliament and from against the agitation, against the police, and the executive, then they are bound to tum semi-naked policemen paraded in the streets. to the third limb of the Indian Union, tbat 1 am reminded of the days of freedom is, the judiciary in the country. struggle when in places like chimur and Ashti the military paraded n""ked and Shri Bharsali There have been occasions in the life of had to undertake a fast into death to atone this country, before Emergency, durins for the crimes of the policy and the military. Emergency and after Emergency and we H,J;e That was the atmosphere of freedom struggle. proud to say that there is a free judiciary Today, the same things are happening. in the country. Even in the dark days of Emergency, there were High Court jndgments The High Court had taken certain which upheld and strengthened the spirit of decision. -I have made it very c1ear that I freedom in the country. Therefore, if there have no objection to Mr. Tewary referring is insecurity, when the women's dignity is i.~ t9 any decision and judgment of the High jeopardy and when the policemen are parading Court. In fact, when we discussed the naked in the streets, and if we do not pin Twenty-fourth Constitution Amendment down certain officers who are committing Bi\l ~~d when we discussed my colleague the crime, if the Parliament and the Govern!' Mr. Nath Pai's Constitution Amendment ment does not take cognizance. If the \Jilt and when I spoke on the Constitution Parliament and the Government does not Amendment Bill moved by the Government- take cognisance, if the Assembly is not I- ihought there could be no better memorial there to take cognisance, the only alt~rna,~ to my colleague Barrister Nath Pai-I fully left to the people is to go to the ju(\iciary seconded the Bill. I stond by the Bill which and seek the protection of the third limb of the Treasury Benches had brought forward the Indian Union and that is what .~ in .~ {011l1 of Twenty-fo.urth Constitution have done. We can discuss on the meri4s of Amendment Bill. We discussed the jud,g- the judgment but I tell you that when t~ ment on the Golak Nath case; we discussed limbs of the Indian Union fail to protec\ ,he tbe property aspect and we discussed the dignity of women on the streets of Ahme4ia- pros and cOltS of that. The members on bad, what other course is left open to ~ b9th the sides of the House referred to it. except to go to the judiciary and - PROF. K. K. TEWARY: They also it as a precedent which was quotea in this passed a judgment for an enquiry. This bad House and it was approved and appreciated never happened. When there is faith in the by the Union Labour Minister in this country. Government in Delhi. then. an enquiry That is why. I wanted to set the record could have been ordered but judiciary straight. immediately intervened without taking into account the consequences of the action. they PROF. K. K. TEWARY: The question is passed a judgment, ordering an inquiry. Has different. this ever happened ? This worsened the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE ! situation. Exactly similar. Women were raped. They' were molested and the Government did not . PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE ; I take cognisance. Police were responsible for thought that our learned Professor will take it. cognisance of the dynamic processes of change in the judiciary. A time may come PROF. K. K. TEWARY ; Why did when the Parliament and the Assemblies will they not condemn violence? Did the judg- be forced to take recourse to institution of ment refer to violence? judicial enquiry. Since he has raised that issue, I will give the precedent which for- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: They tunately the Government and the Labour have condemned the goondas. they have Minister accepted. condemned the mafia gangs, everything has been done. You do not know the problem. It was a question of bonded labo·ur. Mr. Tewary. You are sitting in the cosy Bonded labour at Faridabnd were suffering chambers of Lok Sabha. I have gone I there beause their probems were not beir.g tackled. and given a Dharna along with the bonded They were subjected to atrocities. Migrant labour. I faced the lathis of the Police along labour were involved. The matter went to the with them. Therefore, I know the realities Supreme Court and they followed an extra- of the situution. ordinary procedure of sending the Registrar of the Supreme Court to go and enquire into PROF. K. K. TEWARY: It is not the injustice done to the bonded labour. a Dhama. We have done several Dharnas That Registrar came back. He gave the like that. (Interruptions) report to the Supreme Court and Supreme PROF. MADAU DANDAVATE : I do Court ultimately gave a 5ulgme:1t and pro- not mind even if hundred times Prof. K. K. tected the rights and dignity of the bonded Tewary rises. I will sit down and let hiro labour at Faridabad. I welcome that step. speak. But let him take note of the fact that When a Call Attention Motion was when he is speaking, I never disturbed him tabled here during the proceedings of the I was drafting my substitute motion, Prof. House, the Labour Minister admitted that Tewary, when I gave one ear to the Deputy it was good that Supreme Court intervened Speaker and second ear to you. in the matter and he said, "What to do? We are powerless. State Government is not 13.00 hrs. listening to us." At one of the tripartite I have the dual capacity. I was listening meetings, he said "Our hands are tied. Our to you and was also listening to him. powers are limited. It is the State Govern- ment that should act, They do not act." MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Professor, And I am glad that the Supreme Court has please carry on and try to be brief. delivered the judgment. They followed the extraordinary procedure of sending the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : So, representative to enquire into the matter and sir, such things have happened, I have with they have finally given the judgment. This m~ here all the papers from Gujarat. Here judgment has to be implemented in a time- is a woman who was molested by the police. frame. There is a precedent. That is exactly She gave a statement; her sari was what has happened. What the judgment had stripped; she had been attacked; her done. might not be to the liking of Prof. dignity was violated. If our sense of K. K. Tewary. But as far as the process of anger does not get roused when an Ind ian ~ivin$ some jud~ents is con~ed, I quote woman's dignity is violated, what else will 181 Motion Re : VAISAKHA 4, i907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 182 rouse our sense of anger? It is but natural ment the provisions of the Constitution, we that we are bound to' be provoked by such will be the Central Gcvernment, we acts. We are in Parliament not only to will be with that State Government. we will worry about Constitution and indulge in be with the common people. Let me assure Constitution wranglings, but we are also him of that. On that, I shall not budge an here to refl~t the hunger and anger of the inch. (Interruptions) . people outside. And when we find that our sisters are molested in the streets of The statement, almost indirectly, gives an Ahmedabad. anyone who is a sensitive alibi for all the atrocities committed by the human being will have to react to this. an.d police as if they were provoked. This is if we have angrily reacted to it, our anger is exactly the typical argument that the British- the refle~tion of the anger of the raped ers gave us in 1942; the Britishers always women in' Ahmedabad. Take note of that. used to say that they resorted to firing be- That is what we are condemning. In a cause of the provocative actions of the free- civilized government it is the responsibility dom-fighters. Once late Lok Nayak Jaya- of the police, it is the responsibility of the prakash Narayan, during a debate In Kerala. military, it is the responsibility of the (Interruptions) Government, to see that dignity of women is protected. But we find that it is not. PROF K. K. TEWARY : Please do not Here are the pictures and here are other compare those hoodlums who burnt the versions: Here is another lady who has houses with those who participated in the been injured. These are the people who freedom movement. (Interruption). have been beaten by the police. We are told that the policemen were attacked and, PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE I therefore, they indulged in this. Let me tell will give another jnstance. When in Kerala you what happens in European democratic there was a firing when the PSP Government countries. In France when students took to was there, late Lok Nayak Jayaprakash a revolt in Paris and elsewhere, the police Narayan, addressing a PSP Conference told were warned by the Government not to use Sbri Pattam Tbanu Pillai in no uncertain the bullets to cow down and shoot down the terms, "When you are in power, when the students but to use only rubber bullets and police have arms and when you are in charge water hose pipes;. they were told not to of law and order, you must be prepared to use the bullets at all. Once Lok Nayak Shri face more than what the people do; you will Jayaprakas'1 Narayan said when there was a have to be more tolerant than the people; firing in Kerala when the PSP Government at times, even if a policeman is killed, you was there ... will have to acquiesce in that; you cannot indiscriminately fire at people and try to kill SHRI A. CHARLES (Trivandrum) ; On them." a point of order. Prof. Madhu Dandavate has said that he is in agreement with the policy enunciated in the Constitution in res- That is the code of conduct that we pect of reservation. Can he say that he is in have prescribed for the Police and the Army agr~ment with the steps taken by the State in the country. That is why I say that these Government for implementing the reserva- types of atrocities cannot be justified on the tion ? ground that some policeman was killed, I am one among those ... (Interruptions) Yes. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Please sit that indication was there. I was very careful down. There is no point of order. to listen to Prof Tewary. Please don't disturb. He said that the policeman were acting under PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE ; This heavy provocation, their morale was shattered is a point of information. You could have and their morale was to be built and as a . asked me outside and I would have given result of that they reacted. Will I, a civilised . you. There is no point of order. There is a man, even in my angry mood resort to rape distinction between a point of order and a and molestation or parade myself naked in , point of information. Since the hon. Member the streets of Ahmedabad? Is this a civilised has raised this question, let me make it very way of reacting,? I can understand the clear that if the Central Government or any police firing. But I cannot understand the State Government does anything to imple- policeman raping and molesting women ..• · " Situation it. AkWttd~, t •• SHRI B. K. GADHVI : That is totally to go to the court of law. They admhtttt untrue. the things that had happened and as a result of that, the judiciary had to intervene. All PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: these aspects of the case have to be taken Indian woman will never give a lie about note of. When everything has hapPeDed. her mol~station. On the contrary, even when then the first responsibility ()f tbe Centre Is women are mole~ted, when they appear to send the Army to assist the lOcal adDlini- befote the court, in order to sa~e their stration. I am totd that even the Army men dignity, they refuse to testify the fact that who have gone there did not like the PoHce they are molested. But here even women firing and bursting tear gas sheUs in their come forward, educated woman come for- presence. They said, 'We ha... e been sent ward, women working in social movements here to man sensitive points. Give us tbe come forward and open out their clothes and freedom and latitude to deal with the Say 'These are the scars, these are the bruises situation.' But there the Policemeb interfered aDd these are the indignities suffered at the and intervened in the affairs of tbe Army hands of Police.' You cannot reject that. patrolling those areas. How can then. pea'C:e be brought? That is the reason. t have Therefore, the attack on the freedom of deliberately said let the Centre etrecti\1ety the Press, the. deliberate attack on Gujarat and immediately intervene, in my snbstitute Sinachar, Indan Express and Janasatta motion. 1 have deJiberately used the \Votds because the Press Council has given a 'immediately and effectively intervene'. So decision that action of the Government was the way of intervention is left to the goVern- vindictive only because these papers condem- ment. May be internally they may take the ned the- atrocities by the Police in Ahmedabad. decision and through proper constituti()t1al Th"lt is the reason why they were basically channels the Gujarat Ministry may be chosen for the attack. There are so many dismissed. It has really no moral authority papers in the country. In Gujarat there are to continue in power. They cannot continue 80 many papers and some journals which are in power on the debris of the dignity and subservient to the . government. None of the rights of woman. Therefore. it is left to them were touched. Only those who tried to them. Either they can dismiss the Miilistty expose the atrocities of the Police and also and bring the President's rute ... the injustices perpetrated by the Gujarat (Interruptions). Ministry. the Gujarat Chief Minister were attacked. We have to take note of that. I I am not pointing out any particular have enough material here. I have received thing. Anyway this Ministry should go. a telegram from Shanti Bhai, the Editor of In conclusion I may say ... (Interruptions) Gujarat Samachar I do not want to read Mr. Tewary is an educated** out the entire telegram. It gives in detail the alrocities of the Police, the attack on In the first sentence of my substitute woman, the attack on children, burning of motion I have mentioned, namely, whiie the Press, burning of the institutions ... condemning the unprecedented violence . and arson in Ahmedabad-I separate it from MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please others and the atrocities committed by the conclude. police. Whoever commits arson and violenee I have mentioned about it in my substitute PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : I will motion. That is why I say Prof. Tcwary is conclude in two minutes. The moment you an educated **(Interruptions) If he ex~ say ·Sit down'. I wi}] finish in ten such an ignorance then how many students minutes; must have suffered at the hands bf the professor .•. (Interruptions). Let me tell you there were some women who were sought to be molested. When they PROF. K. K. TEWARY: Mr. Deputy were intecviewed, they told the facts and Speaker, Sir, Professor Dandavate has grOWJllli* when they told the facts. th~ policemen said I did not expect his speech to degenerate 'We were provoked: They said, ·We have to this level. He is behaving like a **Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 18S MotiOIJ K~ ; VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad Itt!; ••(lnterr'Uptions) He bas made a personal in Gujarat was really distressing. Here daily attack against me. It is most unwarranted tbe Opposition Leaders speak loudly and and in bad taste. He is stooping to the level ask that the recommendations of the Mandai of calling names and abuses. (Interruptions) Commission should be implemented. In Gujarat, the State Government have increase PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, the reservation for the people of backward I do no gloat over the flattery by Prof. communities by 18 per cent, This was made Tewary. He can say it. I like learning but the main issue at the time of election. This I don't like experience. (Interruptions) announcement was made by the Chief Therefore, in conclusion I would again Minister even before the Lok Sabba elections. read my substitute motion : The people made it a major issue for fighting ;, elections to Lok Sabha and the Vidhan Sabhit. "While condemning the unpreceden- Even than, the people of Gujarat have given ted violence and arson in Ahmedabad, their mandate in favour of the Congress. the atrocities by the Police and their From this State the Congress Party won violence against the Press and total more Mmts for Vidhan Sabha than for Lok breakdown of the Constitutional machi- Sabha. Now the Opposition Members a~ . nery in the Gujarat State, the House opposing the 18 per cent increase in reservt· recommends that the Union Government tion but on this very issue the people of should effectively and immediately Gujarat had given majority to the Congress intervene to restore normalcy in party. The Congress party won the elections Ahmedabad. " in the State and the Congress Government was formed there under the leadership of Sir, we are using the. highest pc.rliamen- Shri Madhvsinh Solanki. Thereafter, all the tary forum to give justice to women and the oPP:Jsition people joined hands and started common man in Ahmedabad. If Parliament the agitation. These people launched the does not give them justice then we will have agitation because they were rejected by the to fight even outside the Parliament but people in the elections. This agitation was never surrender our right to fight injustice. not launched by the students or the people but this was rather started by the manage- I beg to move : ments of the private schools. And now that "This HOU'ie, having considered very agitation has taken the present shape. the statement made by the Minister of Considering the facts that examinations of Home Affairs in the House on 23rd the students are on the and offing the future April, 1985 regarding Ahmedabad situa- of five lakh students will be marred if tion, condemns the unprecedented examinations are not conducted at the proper violence and arson· in Ahmedabad, time, the Government of Gujarat deferred atrocities by the Police and their violence the implentation of the 18 per cent increase against the Press and total breakdown of in reservation for a period of one year. The the constitutional machinery in Gujarat Government also declared that after one State and recommends that the Union year a committee would be constituted which Government should immediately and would hear the views of all concerned and effectively intrvene to bring normalcy in will give its report after considering all Ahmedabad." aspects of the matter. Thus, the Government have postponed their decision. The increase [Trarslation] in reservation was made the major issue at the time of elections, on the basis of wh~ SHRI NARSINH MAKWANA the Congress got the massive support of tie (Dbantlhuka): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I people .. The Government postponed tile have great respect for the Opposition leader. implementation of their decision only to save Shri ·Dandavate If Shri Dandavate had one . academic year of the students from ooHected the correct information. about bring wasted and to save the loss to pUbHe various incidents whi;h·took place in Gujarat, life and property. But this could not sati'Afy then. he would have presented a correct the Opposition. When theag itation statted picture of the situation. Whatever happened by the Opposition did not succeed, they gave .Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 187 Motion Re : APRIL 24. 1985 Situation in Ahmedabad 188 a communal touch to that agitation. Thus. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am the Opposition people are responsible for unable to understand the judgement tUrDing this agitation into communal riots. of the High O~urt also. In our If Shri Dandavate takes the trouble to visit country, the duties of the judiciary and the Kharia and Saraspur then he will himself see executive are demarcated. It is the duty of that the Opposition people are responsible the judiciary to give justice and the judiciary for the communal trouble in the city. The should not encroach upon the functions of people of Gujarat sensed the intention of the executive. The Gujarat Government the Opposition people. W hen this agitation had to take such steps in view of the failed these people took to other tactics. vertical of the High Court. The Gujarat These people were very clever and they Government was in a fix whether to act started the agitation in another form. Kharia in accordance with the verdict of the is a stronghold of BJP. They started another High Court or not. Even then the Cujarat agitation from this place. They used the Government complied with the order of the ladies as cover to attack the police from High Court knowing full well that the behined. They threw hot water on the police judiciary had gone beyond its powers in per- from the roofs of three-storeyed buildings. forming a function which was of an adminis- They also threw, acid bulbs and big stones on trative nature. The State Government fol1owed the police. Under such circumstances, what the directive of the High Court keeping the could the police do? The police were not in fact in mind that the Commission later on a position to protect themselves and also to will look into all the facts, will make proper protect the life and property of the people. inquiry before giving its report. The Commi- The agitationists resorted to every kind of ssion's report will make it quite clear that bad tactics to harass the police. The pressmen the pclice is not at fault and the allegations also did not cooperate and acted against the made against the police are wrong and base· interests of the country at this time. They less. Shri Dandavate has made a mention of insulted policemen, Wrong news was gi ven the 'Gujarat Samachar'. If he goes through against policemen. Wrong photographs were the copies of the Gujarat Samachar of the last published and concocted stories about the month he would find that this newspaper had police were given out in the press. All this tried to incite communal riots, had tried to demoralised the police. If you see the escalate the conflict between the two Gujarat Samachar of the last three days, you communities in order to destory the unity will find that the ponce were attacked at of the country. What are the functions of several places. When curfew was relaxed in the press? As far as I understand, the func- Saraspur area on 21 st, the agitationists caught tion of the press is to present a ture picture hold of a sub-inspector and beat him up, of the situation before the people. But the His motorcycle was also burnt. The const- Gujarat Samac/zar and one other paper did able accompanying him was also beaten up. not perform their functions with responsi- That constlblc is still in the hospital. What bility. On the other hand, they abetted the happened tl-te ot,er day? When a High agitation, They defamed the police to the Court Commission reached there to make extent that the police lost their temper and on the spot inquiry, the police men accom- in retaliation attacked- . them? In such a panying the Commission were also attacked situation, what could the Government do ? with axes. In such a situation, it was natural Therefore, I want to say emphatica]Jy that for the policemen to lose their temper and the utterances made on the speeches by the act defiantly. If Shri Dandavate personally Members sitting opposite here are incorrect visits Ahmedabad and arrives at the conclusion and baseless. flat the police hadcommitted excesses while discharging their duties, then I am ready to As regards the issue of reservation it is undergo any punishment he likes. He will not proper for the opposition members to himself see that the policemen discharged say one thing while in Gujarat and another tl:leir duties within limits and did not do any- while in the House. In the House, they th'ng which could be termed as excess. He will demand that the recommendations of the himself see that many policemen are stilI in MandaI Commission should be imple- hospital and a number of people have been mented. On the other hand, they go to killed in the agitation. So, it is no use mak- Gu jarat to oppose the said reservation. We ing unfounded allegations against the police. asmembers of a particular political party, 189 Motion Re : VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 19~ should always talk in one strain. It is not Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir I want to say that good to say one thing,while in power and to now we are living in a democracy and there say ar.other while in the Opposition. is a definite meaning -t>f the term democracy. The meaning of democracy is that the party Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, whether which gets a majority in the elections should happened in Kharia was the out come of a be allowed to run the Covernment. A month strategy of the BJP. They put certain ladies has hardly elapsed when the people of in the front line and used them as cover to Gujarat gave their verdict in favour of the fight with the other party. They knew that if Congress Party to run the Government in the ladies would be attacked, the news relating to State under the leadership of Shri Madhav such attacks would be given wide publicity in Singh Solanki. Now the Opposition Member. the newspapers their names and photographs are demanding that the Giljarat Government would be print~d in newspapers and the should be dismissed. You can yourself agitation would further spread. But this did imagine how much faith the opposition people not happen because the people of Gujarat and have in democracy. Ahmedabad were clever enough to sense these tactics of the agitationists and did not fall in Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the people of their trap. Gujarat had successfully launched an agita- tion in 1974, under the leadership of Shri I want to tell you this thing also that Jayaprakash Narayan. On that very pattern Shri Rajiv went to Ahmedabad and visited the Opposition people tried to launch this the riot-affected areas, gave assurance to the agitation. The intention behind this agitation people and took them into confidence then is to topple the Congress Government in the the communal riots stopped at once. But the State but the agitations will not succeed in BJP people again started them. They called a their mission. The people of Gujarat will not meeting at a particular place and a plan was allow these agitationists to achieve their drawn up indicating what work would be objective. The people, who were in the begin- done by whom. Not only this, they also ing supporting these agitationists, are now invited certain people from other States who telling them that they were on the wrong path. were export in stone throwing and in fighting. The leader of the Janata Party Indubhai They made use of these professionals in dis- Patel was not beaten up b)' the police but turbing the peace in Ahmedabad. These very was beaten up by her own followers. Her people played a very big role in inciting the followers told her that she should not indulge communal riots. in such acts which were meant to destroy Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir I do not want the unity and integrity of the country. We to take much time of the House, but I want should bear this development in mind to make it clear that the . speech made by because it is not an ordinary thing. Shri Dandvate was not based on facts. In Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the statement his speech, he did not make a mention of the made by the Home Minister is correct but I Harijan localities which were set on fire. want to go a bit further and say that some During the last three days, the Harijan locali- arrangement must be made to help those who ties were attacked the Harijans were beaten have suffered much on account of this up, they were prevented from going to attend agitation. their duties. On whose shoulders lies .the responsibility of checking all these things? [English] The day before yesterday, the police refused to do their duty. At that time, all the poor SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY people, the Harijans and the people belonging (Katwa) : In this debate, it is not intended to the weaker sections were shaking with terror to discuss the law and order situation in thinking that noW there was nobody to Gujarat. It is more than that: the kind of protect them. Last night, up to 3 a. m., I inferno that is now evidenced there; the was receiving telephone cans to the effects caste war, and in it the communal elements that the poor people were being attacked and added; and above all. the behaviour of the they were asking for protection. The Harijans Police and their attack on the people and and the people belonging to the weaker on the rights of the journalists-these are the sections were subjected to atrocities. Shri aspects which we want to condemn very much. Dandavate did not refer to such happenings So many innocent people have died. We in his speed\-, are pained at this wanton killing, at this 19t Motion Re : APRIL 24, }~$ Situation in Ahmedabad 192 kind of attack that is going on. We now backward classes. This type of opportunism want to reveal the force5, the causes behind vote catching device is very much responsible this kind of an eruption in Gujarat. for it. Why did you n~t allow a cOD$ensus to the formed on the Madnal Com~ission Much has b~en spoken. In his statement, Report? On such metters, we require the Minister has given an account of the national consensus, but you shun from all ha.ppenings. But it has not revealed the Li.; also; and before ejections you thought whole thing. There are more reports from you would get some votes, you declared it Oujarat pouring in. When the hon. and then after that you went back On that; Members from that side tried to defend this kind of policy you pursue. You are Police action, on the part that they were really creating danger to the intagrity of our provoked. it was most shameful and deplo- country. For infusing this kind of commu· ratJlie. By no account can you justify the nal poison in the issues of unemployment action of .the Police who are there to main- and other ecunomic issues, you are responsi- tain law and order, who are to diffuse any ble. I request the Home Minister to impress tension that might erupt among communities. upon the Government of Gujarat to make It is their responsibility. I am n:Jt blaming an enquiry into the causes that led to the any person in the Police force. My point cruption of these riots. I am not demanding is that the mentality which the Police are the dismissal of the government, It is for now having in our country, the kind of the people of the State to do it; no doubt an criminal attitude that they are having. inefficient government has to go; ond they intolerance that they are having that is very have every right to launch a genuine agitatjon much responsible. And it is at the root of it. if they feel so. I will request you to impress The Governments in the States particularly upon the government of Gujarat to order a Congress I ruled States-you may differ judicial enquiry into the causes that led to with me-the kind of anti-people attitude the cruption of these riots that is very much they take. that has percolated into police; necessary and I demand this. The spe~ and it was very much evident in the past. of Prof. Tewary is not conducive at all to There is no proper method, proper training harmony to be maintained for the people of of a real harmony to be brought between the our country, it is an unqualified aUegatioft police and the people. This atrocious type against the opposition. They did not blame of behaviour they are encouraged to pursue our party or any of the left, but for a sensi- only with the patronage of the political party ble person to say that BJP and JP have an in power. Otherwise, they cannot do it. equal role in Gujarat, I think it is imprudent. When they go to meet a situation, it is the If we are really serious we have to think duty of the government to see that they are seriously about it. what is the root of the put incharge of sensible officers; and what trouble, and on that, I request this govern,- had happened when they were going to carry ment to impress upon the Goverllment of the order of the High Court? They were Gujarat to make on enquiry into the causes attacked by the mob. Does it show any that led to the cruption of these riots, efficiency of the Government? \Ve very The victims new very much require relief, much condemn this behaviour of the police compensation; and that should be rushed and I charge the government for failure to to them immediately. maintain law and order and to advise the police to act in a manner that is not desirable You have to see that they are proper\y in Gujarat. given relief and their miserise are to some extent removed. With these words I, con- How did this problem of reservation, demn all the caste elements which .v~ anti-reservation occur? For all this, the brought this Gujarat problem, that led to policy of the government is responsible. For this and demand a national consensus. and long we demanded in this House a discussion of a consensus in this House an ~1a~1 on the Mandai Commission Report. The Commission Report and other things, Befare Rana Commission submitted their Report doing all that, I reque~t the Government. in 1983 in Gujarat. But the Central and not to go isolatedly. do not go just pieco- State government sat tightly all through; and meal, when you have to do it, you bave sot just before the election, they tho.ught it fit to to do it with the consensus of the naUoll. of declare their policy of reserv~tiOP for ~ the House, of the people, and you have $ot 1'93 Motion Re : VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 194 w do it very much. You are not at an to power in 1980. The so-called clash serious about the SC/ST reservations. Well, between the forward and the backward "ery good, you have said that you are not classes was generated in a high pitch battle going back on that. But is it implemented in Bihar when Mr. Karpuri Thakur "as the in the Congress (I) ruled States? How far? Chief Minister of Bihar and the Janta Party What is the percentage? Not at all! Now, was in power. The matter was not thi$ reservation has become some k:nd of discussed in Parliament in so much detail as preservation of the castedivision, of that we are discussing today. dismal imbalance of the people, This is no Earlier the Khalistan movement and the reservation. This is preservation, that is demands of the extremists and the Akalis what is going on. In that respect we have were very much in the dark and they were to seriously think about it. We all should not discussed Shri Surjit Singh Barnala who shun instigating any kind of agitation, that happened to sit on that side was the Agri- leads to this kind of communal and caste culture Minister in the Janta Party Govern- agitation in this country. With these words, ment. At that time they did not talk of all I conclude. Thank you. these things. At the time the Janata Govern- SHRI PRIY A RANJAN DAS MUNSI ment "as busy to find out whether Non-align- (Howrah) : Mr. Deputy Speaker. at the out- ment was genuine or not, whether the Camp set I like to make at absolutely clear that we David Agreement was to be supported Or not. all condemn the kind of burning that has Why I am saying all these things, I have taken place including that of Gujarat some reasons for it. Now, the other day, Samachar and the attempt on other leading when we were discussing the Punjab issue, institutions af the Press. and Mr. Tewary was referring to some Now, I do not consider the Gujarat inci- book written by Mr. Hardgrave in an dent as an isolated incident. If you can American journal, who anticipated Mrs. taken the history in recent past the entire Gandhi's kill ink two months in advance, two thing that appears to me is part of a grand months before the killing took pJace; he said global strategy to destabilise the whole that Mr. Raj:v Gandhi may take over but country. that he would not setlled and that it will not stabilise the country. Wen, I say all these PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Anglo- things after thinking very well. Tbis American imperialism. Government. After cimming into office, the Prime Minister gave the first priority and SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS MUNSI : laid emphasis on Punjab and Assam and Now there are only two forces of polarisation started creating the right atmosphere in the in the country; one is for the unity of the country. The whole effort was opposed by country and on the other side there is one for a section of forces, intelligent enough to de.stabilisa tion of the country. I do not expand the area of disintegration right up to like to mention A, B. C and D into any Gujarat and to organise and unite the forces a~tegory. Whi1e say things, I substantiate of disruption. These are all linked. If you them with documents and certain references. go through it you will find it. You can laugh, Mr. Jaipal Reddy. But I am talking The problem that we are faced with now with sense. This is a deliberate attempt by in the country, well I will say it is not a new the imperialist forces with their agents in the problem. The problem of Assam, the country to exploit every problem and to go problem of Meghalaya, Nagaland. the prob- far into it to see that things are al.-soJutely iem of Punjab and the problem of Gujarat. deteriora ted. If you just go back to the history and if YQU go to the original genesis of tbis problem, PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: It is • Jld put an of them into the poJitical analyti- a global phenomenon . cal laboratory you will find tbat there is a SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS MUNSI : link in between all these. It is not a global phenomenon. It is a part of the grand strategy to destabilise the The senesis of this Assam problem rose country. when Gulab Barhara was the Chief Minister of Assam. But when he got out of office, The Kudal commission's Report-I have things flared tIp apd Mrs. Gandbi came back not gone through it page .by page-says that 195 Motion Re : APRIL 24,1985 Situation in Ahmedabad 196 the money from the Gandhi Peace Founda- that. They may be having tllOusands of tion was spent during the Nav Nirman quarrels with the Congress and the Govern- Samiti's agitation. I had been to Gujarat ment and they may be having thousands of in those days with Mr. H. K. L. Bhagat. accusations against us, but ouor friends in the The agitation was against bharastachar pin- opposition, specially the Leftists at least pointing** Brick batting was there in the know that Mrs. Gandhi was a victim of the streets. A similar kind of speech was made, great imperia1ist conspiracy. They at least as Mr. Modhu Dandavate was making tceay, know that their satellites and agents are still by Mr. Morarji Desai from that side. I had active in India to take every chance to been there in Ahmedabad. The ultimate exploit the situation every moment. While theme was not bharastachar hatao but disso- we accuse RSS and many other communal lution of the Government because Chimanbhai forces for creating this situation, I am sur- was heading the Government. And the prised that the Leftists do not do so. Rather funny thing is, today that Chimanbhai is they support them. If they go on doing with Mr. Madhu Dandavate's party. When like this, I am sOJ.:ry to say that one day he talks of the moral authority of the Gujarat their red flag will be turned into black by Government I say that they have no moral them only and not by us. anthority to rule the Gujarat State headed by Shri Madhavsinh So]anki. I do not know About the Gujarat incident, first the what moral authority Mr. Madhu Dandavate, movement was led by Akhil Bharatiya has go to take the name of Jayaprakash by Vidyarthi Parishad. It was reported on getting Chimanbhai Patel in his Party to 17 March. 1985 that the Akhil Bharatiya lead the agitation. Vidyarthi Parishad, which had initiated the agitation, has now backed out expressing PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : If I satisfaction over the revised stand of the have no right to take the name of Government. It further says that in a Jayaprakash Narayan, why do you support statement issued here this evening, it wanted the Emerg<"ncy by taking the name of that high school and higher secondary Jayaprakash Narayan? examinations be held as per schedule. Then SHRI PRIY A RANJAN DAS MUNSI : the appeal was made by the court itself to ] have seen one thing. When the opposition call off the agitation in view of the GO"ltern- levels various charges against any Congress ment's decision not to implement the revised leader and when that leader is thrown out reservation policy in the current academic of Congress, they accept him as their cream. year. Immediately after this the Navrachana When Mr. Biju Patnaik happened to sit in Samiti. a by-product of Nav NiJrnal the Treasury benches with Pandit Nehru, the Andolan of Gujarat, came forward. I can opposition had made a lot of accusations well imagine the frustration of the opposition against him. But when Mr. Biju Patnaik especial1y the Janta Party and BJP. I can chose to be out of Congress, he became the very well imagine the way they have been champion of democracy. Similar is the case out-voted Ly the people in the last Lok with Mr. Chirnanbhai Patel. This is also a Sabha elections. But I thought that when part of the strategy. they preach Gandhiji's principles and take his name, they would not have appreciated Now, I am coming to Gujarat. Mr. this kind of violence in Gujarat. Tewary and many other friends have said that we cannot go back from our commit- They talk of police atrocities. Here I ment of constitutional guarantee to the am not going to defend the police. It is for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. the Gajarat Government to do it. I would That is not only the policy of the consti- only wish to refer to one thing. While the tution but also the desire of most of the Home Minister of the Central Government political parties in the country. Today has chosen to visited Gujarat because of the . I was feeling really sorry when I had found serious situation and chosen to make a Leftist friends behaving in this way. I do statement in the House thereby allowing a not like to have a quarrel with them here by discussion in this Home, I hope and wish bringing Bengal issue; I have not stood for that the Minister will make a Similar kind of * Not recorded. 197 MOlion Re : VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 198 effort in many other parts of the country Thakur was the Chief Minister, but we never whenever similar situation arises and allow demanded dissolution, we might have dt:man- the House to take up that matter. ded inquiry. When Madhu Dandavate is demanding Presidential rule in Gujarat and After the appeal was made by the court, immediately throwing out the Chief Minister, the Navrachana Samiti came out with a I smell something very serious in it in the statement that they were not goining to listen nature of 1973-74 agitation of Gujarat. It to it. They will intensify the agitation. On begins with Gujarat because there is a positive 22nd March it was reported, Justice R.C. resort given by the Gandhi Peace Foundation. Manked appealed to the student community I again repeat it with all authority. The to call off the agitation in view of the Minister may investigate through his agencies. Government's decision not to implement the This money is being spent for these forces revised reservation policy during 1985-86. In whenever the occassjon comes. I can imagine spite of that, the Nav Rachna Samity came when the women are beaten by the police and and said, "We shall continue to' do it because molested, no one in this House will defend we feel we are unsafe". No Opposition leader that kind of activity of the police but one till this date has made it clear in unambi- things I would say. Mr. Dandavate must be guous terms whether they support the agita- knowing the kind of hoodlums hired in such tion or not. They are talking of violence, agitations. No sensible people go in the they are talking of this and that, they are streets for rioting. It is the hoodlums, the trying to sidetrack the whole issue. I would bootleggers who are hired by tbe organised like to know from Shri Madbu Dandavate gangsters and they do all such activities. If and his party whether they support the a hoodlum goes and burns a house and if agitation or not ... (interruptions). the police is there, wi]] the police go and kiss him ? If a hoodlum goes and robs a bank SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: No. and the police Is there, will the police go and SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS MUNSI : kiss him? My friend from the CPI(M) rarty, Mr. Saifuddin Chowdhury was also referring If you do not support the agitation, then why do you defend the activities and the strategy to the freedom of Pless and all these things. I share his sentiments, blot would like to that has been adopted by the Nav Rachna remind him that as we all condemn the Samiti? atrocities on Gujarat Samachar and Jansaua SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: We did. we also equally should condemn the kind of activities the CPI did in Ananda Bazar SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS MUNS[ : Patrika in Calcutta. Similar efforts were You did not say that. I am coming to the made there. They brough the gangsters. beat statement by your party. In Ahmedabad, the journalists entered into the press, It is on Janata Party carne forward and said "There record, it is a fact. If it is irrelevant, let the is lot of substance in the agitation because Press Council say it. If the Press Council there is a resentment among the people there says it is irrelevant. I will resign from the feeling unsafe". Unsafe for what? The reser- Parliament. Don't hide. In the Gujarat vation is there in Karnataka, the reservation agitation, now the situation has taken a new is there in Andhra, the reservation is there in turn. The turn is nothing, it is very simple. Tamil Nadu, the reser·vation is there in many other parts, may be 50 per cent. may be 40 per The Prime Minister, Mr. Rajiv Gandhi, cent, may be 60 per cent. But tell me why the after the session of the Parliament will make. spot for the movement was chosen as Gujarat. a trip abroad to preach for world peace, and It is because Congress is ruling in Gujarat to promote better understanding between That is the only point, there is no other India and other countries. Before his depar- point. Serious riots were there in Hyderabad ture, the same forces want to exhibit to the while Shri N.T. Rama Rao was in power. third world countries and to the super powers We never demanded disssolution of that that India is not strong enough to keep itself. Government in th:5 House. Riots were there united. That is the reason why this kind of in Kamataka but we never demanded that fomentations are going on there. I am quite· Hegde Government should be dissolved, clear that the matter should be sorted out Riots were there in Jamshedpur for four amicably. While the Chief Minister of months continuously when Shri Karpuri Gujarat was considering most of the demands j 99 Motion]f, I APRIL 24.1985 Situation in Ahmedabad ·200 and was in a mood to talk to the people. I would like to wind up with three what happened was that immediately after his suggestion. My first suggestion is that the decision. within fortyeight hours riots erupted. Home Minister of the Union cabinet should What happened? The police went into the se~ that under no circumstances the Chief streets, whether being naked or half naked as Minister of Gujarat is weakened. His moral Prof. Madhu Dandavate has stated. arid authority will have to be supported by this started beating the people and became House. Secondly adequate compensation ferocious. The police is a force which belongs must be paid by the Gujarat Government for to our own community. They are not an the atrocities committed against the Press, imported community from abroad. When the the arson and looting and to see that nor. police feel that some of their compatriots and malcy is restored there. Thirdly. the culprits comrades have been killed, they should not who have been detained and arrested for have been agitated, I also said that, but they getting funds from abroad and certain other did. In Calcutta, when a Deputy Commis- agencies and voluntary organisations, inclu.- sioner of Pblice was brutally killed in broad ding the organisation of tbe Gandhi Peace. day light, the police wanted to rebel. But Foundation, their names should be declared then the Government and all the political and the lists of those persons should be parties and the Chief Minister made an tabled in the House so that the whole House appeal. They said this was not an issue of should know who are behined this. I further politics. They should see that the police does would like to say that if tbe Home Minister not make a revolt. We all suppor~ed the feels he should send an impartial team to' stand of the Chief Minister says that was Gujarat to find out who are actual architecls not the occasion to encourage the polie!. 1f behind Nav Rachna Samiti and who did the hon. Minister enquires through the State what. I can prove it the most of tbem Government about what bappened in Gujlrat campaigned for the Janata Government and he will also find that there are some forces the RJP in the last elections. And after actively engaged to incite the police to go to having failed to score in the battle, now the streets. There is a section which enginee- tbey are taking shelter under Nav Rachna. red the same thing in 1973-74. I was in Nav Rachna is not Nav Rachna of Gujarat. Circuit House then. When I came out and It is the Nav Rachna of the Opposition. met the boys in the streets, none else than I wish the leftist parties at least should Nav Nirman students told us that a section not club themselves with this. of the police is being patronised by some of the leaders of the opposition whom they Before concluding I once again say did not know. I remember the name of that through you that the Government should person. He was Uma Kant Makan. I do not enquire into the matter in regard to the know whether he is in politics now or not. foreign hand into the agitatian, whether it is in Assam, or in Gujarat or in Punjab. SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: He is now Congress (1) MLA. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Time left for this topic 'is only twenty . minutes, but the SHRI PRIY A RANJAN DAS MUNSI : number of the speakers on the list is quite Thanks. He is wise enough and he came to large. Therefore, I would request the our side. He precisely says how truthful he Members to be very brie£. I would not allow was. At that time he was in agitation and more than four minutes. he said a section of tbe police had been hired by the opposition. He was not at tbat time PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : with us. Let Mr. Jaipat Reddy note that** Generally what is called Half-an-Hour dis- who was accused durins that time as a thief, cussion goes up to even three hours. There~ he is now in the Janata Party lap and Mr. fore, when you say two bour discussion, it Uina Kant Makan. wao was for Morarji can be extended to six hours. Bhai a singh of youth power, is now with the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: More t!Jt Coogress. So you can easily imagine what is less all the Members are coming to the similar happening in (jujarat. points. Therefore, I am giving four minut~ ~*Not recorded. 201 Motion.ll.e: VAISAKiIA 4t 1907 (SA-irA) Situation in AhmeJt:d,~ 202 to each Member. That is all. Not more than As I said. I very strongly condemn the that. attack on. the Press because I know that the Gujarat Samachar and some other Press were If you are not able to finish within that critical of the Government. That is a fact. time. I am sorry for that. PROF. N. G. RANGA : What about the SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE reservation policy and the onti-reservatioD Even for them, you gave more time. movement 7 MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: They were SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: I to initiate the discussion. So, I gave them am coming to that. Now, I would like to go some tim:!. Th'at is my discretion. You can- to the whole back of the thing. When the not question my discretion. question of apportioning blames and aU that comes, let me make my position absolutely clear. First of all. when I went there in SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE Gujarat, I found that there were very strong Within such a short time, how can we cover grounds for complaints-the complaints that all the points. ? I heared-that many BJP workers were actively associated with this anti-reservationist MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have movement. So, I don't think that all can be to cover. Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee, you left out. But I did not hear a general have been given 5 minutes. That is all. invol vement of the Janata Party workers as Please try to conclude within that time. such. Let m:!, for clarity sake, make it very clear. But I would also like to state clearly PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE that I hear~d very serious complaints against Geetaji, time is to be taken. It is never given. a section of the Congress-I men, particularly SHRIMATr GEETA MUKHERJEE a gentleman who was in the last Cabinet but (Panskura) : Mr. Deputi Speaker, Sir, first of subsequently dropped and who had an axe to all, I would like to stress that the situation grind so far as present Home Minister is in Gujarat is too serious for just apportioning because he belongs to the lower caste. That -"'lames. I extend my heartfelt sympathy to is why, U",ere is an involvement of a section the victims of the violence and those who are of the Congress leldership, who may be dis- suffering in Gujarat today. I also strongly gruntled - I do not know. condemn the meaningless vandalism resorted PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Are to by the anti-reservation movement wallas they still in the Congress·I ? in Gujarat. I also condemn the police behaviour very strongly because there cannot SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE be any plea for those who are protectors of Yes, they are still in the Congress-I. law and order to steep to such a low level where they can go·to public rape and moles- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE But tation of women, under any pretext or any you said, he was not a 'gentleman'. circumstances. I also condemn the killing of 14.00 brs. the police personnel. I don't tbink that should be done. So, let me make these things very clear. Now, Sir, I am really very sorry to read My hon. friend, Shri Priya Ranjan Das the statement made by the Home Minister. M unsi ; just now warned us, the leftists, and Not a word of condemnation about the police he accused us of lumping the whole opposit:on behaviour is there. J am coming to the attack together. J want to make it c]ear that when on the Press also. I very strongly condemn I went to Ahmedabad, immediately after the attack on the Press and the burning of Hindu-Muslim riot, I heared from all Quarters their. establishments. In this counectiOB, I that when the bon. Prime Minister went would like to state that I had been to Gujarat there, he condemned al! the opposition witb- and Ahmedabad just after the riots. So, I out making any differentiation in the opposi- have a little first hand experience of that tion and he said that they were all responsible riots. That is why, I wanted to take a little for the situation. That was not Hked by 1he more time. people there. I would like to point out that 2()3 Motion ke : Situation in Ahmedabad 204 lumping together of the opposition was not About the policy of reservation, naturally, started by anyone of us. It was started by the the backward castes deserve some special Prime Minister himself, going over there. treatment. That is true. How to do it You please search your own minds. must be very seriously thought over and a national consensus must be arived at on What I saw there was that really the that. Economically depressed sections of upper castes belonging to various parties, not other castes also deserve some special treat- the leftist ones-let me make it very clear- ment. were ganging up. The Solanki Government just before the elections declared this policy Today that question also cannot be with which I am not quarreling at all. May given up. Urterruptions) Naturally. the I ask why for the defence of that policy. a constitutional obligation about the Scheduled general mobilisation of the Congress-I workers Castes and Scheduled Tribes is incumbent was not done by the Congress-I Government? on everyone. That being the situation, I Why was that not taken up by the Solanki would request 'that on these questions let Government? (Interruptions). This is a very there be a very serious attempt to come to relevant point. J knew that when I would a national consensus. Unless this is done, ask that, immediately there will be a great whether it is Gujarat or some other place, clamour. But I want to give the devil his this will go on rolling and rolling. There- due wherever it is. fore, while the Gujarat situation is really very deplorable, a stop must be put to this. I heared, after declaration of the policy, The inept headling of the Government of ther..! was a tremendous pressure from the Congress-I cannot escape being branded. upper castes in various parties including that They must squarely own their responsibility. of the Congress-I and there was an after- I hope that the Gujarat situation will subside. thought in certain quarters that it should be Every section should take a lesson from withdrawn. Therefore, the situation today this and come to a national consensus. This is a complex one. That is why, I say, every is how I want to place my point of view party should search their mind. The position and my party's point of view before the of the leftists, the Communist Party of India, House. is very clear with regard to this maUer. SHRI B. K. GADHVI (Banaskatha) : PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Our Sir, I heard the speech of Prof. Madhu position is extremely clear. Dandavate with rapt attention. He tried to SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: put lot of colour in the skeleton which is 1 also met some Janta Party leaders. They from his own cup-board and now the origi- nal design is totally clear. did not say that they are against it. But there may be some elements in certain So far as the cult of violence is concern- Parties. So, every Party should search their ed, it may be in any faction, it may be any- mind on this question. where in the country. It has to be My first appeal at the moment is for condemned. But, when we try to analyse and assess the situation in Gujarat, restoration of Peace and amity in Gujarat. Alread, between communities a verry deep then its history. as has been told by other cleavage has been created and naturally, the speakers, has got relevance to it. biggest . sufferers are the poor people of I would like to ask the BJP and Janata G ujarat. Trying to brame each other will Party to clarify in unequivocal terms whether not do. If you are for national integration, they support the present hike in the reser., . if you are for protecting the rights of vation quota or not. Let them come out downtrodden. then you should rise above all because they are talking in two tongues. In these bickerings which are going there and Gujarat, 65% of the people.... don"t lump together the whole opposition, as a group. You find out who are the people PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE': Two' responsible for it. I have heard some persons talk with two tongues. complaints against BJP: I have heard some SHRI B. K. GADHVI . Including complaints against certain sections of other Harijans and Adivasis are Backward classes p.l:,ties. All these things are to be gone and now gradually, the gist of the speeches, into thoroughly and properly. the decisions of the Navarachana Samiti 205 Motion Re : VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 206 and others are coming up. ]n a phased having time even to take two square meals. manner, they also want to away with all Even the Police Commissioner, when he types of reservations including reservation for goes out on duty for 15 Or 20 days, does Harijans and Adivasis. not have proper sleep except 'the siesta which he has sitting in the chair. It is good that Prime Minister very recently made it clear that so far as reser- Have you seen the vehicles in Gujarat ? vations for SC and ST are concerned, there Most of the vehicles were written upon with is no question of rethinking or even reassess- filthy abuses against police, against the ment and an that. Congress people, against the Chief Minister. And what did those workers do? They But the opposition parties are hand in stopped the vehicles, and the passengers were glove with agitators and also trying to prompt forced to speak filthy abuses against the them from 'behind. Is the role of the policemen and the Government. The Police- opposition conducive to the restoration of men, after all, are having their own families. peace or is it adding fuel to the fire? When they went back to their homes, their Ahmedabad areas are which predominantly families were asking them. "Is this your represented by the BJP MLAs. Why they behaviour?" Totally baseless allegations of did not want police? The answer is that policemen parading half-naked or nacked in after the communal tension in Ahmedabad, the streets were made out; concocted stories when the Prime Minister and the Home were given about police atrocities. Some Minister visited Ahmedabad, and when they policemen were also assaulted policemen wer~ came hack. normalcy and peace were restoreJ beaten and assaulted. But nothing has come and during lhat peace, in the poles (streets) out in the press. Is there a single line in of Ahmedabad where BJP and other workers the press that policemen were also assaulted are working, barrels of petrol were procured, to such an extent that there are fractures and weapons were purchased cotton waste was serious IOJunes substained by tbem? stored and they were kept there and the Nothing of this nature has come. A mis- local police w;!r ~ knDw:ng as to where those rep'resentation was made to the High Court goods were held and, therefore, they resented and a judgment was passed preventing the that local police should not enter the loca- police officers from entering into purticular lities and with that view, they started all areas. Have you ever heard of a police sorts of character as'>assination and maligning officer on duty being restrained and asked to campaign against the police. The press go away from that places, And an unknown including Gujarat Samachar highlighted the person who does not know the places who things which were bogus. does not know who tne miscreants are, who Prof. Madhu Dandavate said that police does not know are the hoodlums, takes his firing is unprovoked. place. The police officers, wno had the know- ledge, were ousted from duty. That was the I would like to ask him whether the judgment passed by the judiciary. You say police are part of society or not. that judiciary was the pillar of democracy. It I want to ask whether the police is a was the pillar, no doubt, and it is the pillar. part of the society or not. You can imagine But if there is a canker in an apple, we have the lot of the policemen who is on duty for to say that there is a canker in the apple. we 1-1/2 or 2 months which all the tension, his It was a perverse judgement. There- family not knowing his whereabouts ... fore, the entire morale of the police force went down. It is not that the Gujarat PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: You Government has not taken steps. Immediate are asking whether police is a part of the steps were taken when riots broken out to society or not. Tomorrow if some people put them down. Relief camps were orga- indulge in thefts and dacoities. will you say nized and every victim of the police bullet is that they are also a part and parcel of the being paid Rs. 20,000. The family po1ice society? officer was paid Rs. 1 lakh and his daughter is about to be employed of killed. I cong- . SHRI B. 1(. GADHVI: I am talking ratulate the government of Gujarat and the about the role played. by the Opposition Chief Minister for that gesture. You can- Parties there. These policemen ere engaged not suspend the police force and thereafter in c;lutf for 1-1/2 or 2 months without blame the Government. 207 Motion Re : APRIL Z4, t98S Situation in Abmedabad 208 The design of the Opposition was very Patel was brought down, it wants to try clear. In Bombay they had a meeting. again. At that time it was the Japata Mr. Madhu Mehta was there. They said Morcha. In 1975 when Prime Minister that they would take the agitation to other Indira Gandhi went to Oonja and tried to States also. When somebody asked, "Why explain the situation, stones were pelted at not to Karnataka and other non-Congress her because Chiman Bhai Pttel was States 1" The reply wa~ that they should not Congress (1) Chief Minister. Now the same do anything there because they are ruled by Chiman Bhai was elected from Oonja. This non-Congress Governments. They concen- is the trend. This is the psychology and the trated on Gujarat b~cause Guj:lrat had given BJP and Janata are hand in glove with these the highest percentage of votes in favour of elements. Kindly refrain from that. Other- Congress. The tall claims that they made wise. I would not be surprised if the Back. in the past crumbled down and, therefore, ward Classes peope also start retaliation and it is the frustration and failure that has in that case the blame would be squarely on engendered or created this sort of provoca- your shoulders. tion. The Gujarat Government has kept in . They are not denigrating the police abeyance the increase in reservation quota . people. Look at tl)e behaviour of the police I wish that ought not to have been done officers. I was in Ahmedabad at that time. because Backward Classes people are entitled A posse of reserve police constabulary were to be equated with the Forward Communi- going to the High Court and to the places of ties and they are entitled to have benefits high Court judges. Those police officers and privileges that have been assured to who had been restrained from going to them in the Constitution. Despite all these particular areas pleaded with those police things, the government of Gujarat, the Chief constables. "Here are the officers; you should Minister of Gujarat, with a view that there not go to the High Court and other places should be clam and quiet, with a view that and you should not do any harm to them." there should not be any violance, with a And the constables went ba.:k. The same view that issue should be settled across the police officers against whom strictures were table, released the students, kept in abeyance passed protected the High Court and the the increase in reservation quota and judges. These are the facts. agreed to consider their demands with a view that normally is restored and the We all talk of high things. We al1 talk future of 5 lakhs students is not spoilt and that violence should b~ curbed. But you are they are made to appear in the examination. asking people to take the issues to the streets. But the olive branch which was extended You have already started 'We will take issue was, unfortunately not accepted. Therefore. to the streets.' My submission to the Home this atmosphare has come. Now violance Minister is; there is a case where government has subsided and peace is returning. There- has on record the involvement of BJP and fore. I would plead with Prof. Madhu JRnata in creation and escalation of tension D.wda vate and other opposition leaders, let and violence in Gujarat. Therefore the' us sit together and consider a constructive Government also should not feel shy of way to bring about normalcy so that expressing those things and bringing these examinations are held early and the future tlJ,ings to the notice of the people. of the 5 lakhs students of Gujarat is not put in jeopardy. I am happy that the situation is restoring With these words I welcome the state- to calm and normalcy. So far as other ment made by the hon. Home Minister. allegations are concerned, perhaps once the tiger has tasted the blood in 1974 by th.e {Translation} Nav Nirman movement when you saw to It that tbe Government which was headed at *SHRI R. ANNA NAMBI (Pollachi) : that time by the Congress Chief Minister Hon. Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, on be'lalf and now your leader, Mr. Chiman Bhai of my party the All India Anna D. M. K., tIoThe speech- originally delivered in Tamil. 209 Motion Re : VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 210 I wish to say a f~w words on the situation mentation must be removed. It is also not prevailing in Gujarat today. In response to in the long-term interest of any political the demand of the Opposition Party party to stall the implementation on of such Members, the hon. Home Miniser made a social welfare measures. The political detailed statement yesterday about the parties sould raise above immediate political regrettable state of affairs in the State of gains through agitation. Gujarat. Shri Madhu Dandavate has moved a substitute motion to the motion of Home Here I have to refer that in Tamil Nadu Minister. Many hon. Members have venti- there is 50% reservation for backward classes and 18% reservation for Scheduled Castes. lated their views during the. past two hours, Even for forward classes concessions are The Members belonging to different political being given by the State Government. The parties have expressed themselves according Government of -Tamil Nadu under the to their understanding of the problem. leadership of Dr. Puratchi Thalaivar M. G. R. is in the forefront of social resurgence in the I am saying this in great anguish that country. Our beloved leader Dr. M. G. R.o the Gujarat Government's laudable action whose soul force is the support of the in hiking the reservation of backward classes commn people of the State, is implementing should have led to this kind of chaotic vigorously the social tenets handed over to situation in the State. The Gujarat Govern- him by the Father of Social Reformation ment wanted to redress the genuine grievances Thanthai Periyar and the torch-bearer of his of the people belonging to backward classes ideals Perarignar Anna. Dr. M. G. R. is in the State. Under the leadership of our commited to the establishment of a c1~ssless hon. Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, the and casteless society in Tamil Nadu. Congress Party Government in Gujarat Perarignar Anna used to say that he would increased the reservation for backward classes like to sec a Muslim without a lungi. a by 20%. Can anyone in his senses object christian without a cross and a Hindu with- to this and that too violently.? The people out the mark of ashes on his forehead. of Gujarat returned to power the same There is perennial peace in the State of Gujarat Congress Government in the General Tamil Nadu and there is universal support Flections. They returned to Lok Sabha all for the great endeavours of our Chief Congress Members except from one Consti- Minister. There is no agitation of any kind tuency. This showed that the people of in· Tamil Nadu about the reservation Gujarat have reposed their faith in Congress percentage. The entire population of Tamil Party Government in delivering the goods. Nadu has identified its interests with the There was stray opposition here and there ideals of the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. before the Elections to the reservation policy of the State Government. But after the Sir, I would once again strees that the Elections, the defeated candidates in the State Government of Gujarat should not Elections joined the fray and fanned the rescind its reservation policy at any cost. flames of agitation. There is nothing wrong The General Government should help the in the students agitating for their rights. But State Government in restoring law and order when the political parties and other anti- in the State, and in putting down the agi- social elements incite the students to violence, tation with al1 the force at its command. then everything is going aflame. With these words I support the statement of the han. Home Minister. From the newspaper we come to know MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Before I that police men have received grievous in- call upon the next hon. Member to speak, juries. We also see that high-placed officers I wish to announce that Notice of Substitute are hit in the melee. The State Janata Party Motions have been received from Prof. President has been injured in this violence. Madhu Dandavate and Shri S. Jaipal Reddy. The State Government is endeavouring Prof. Dandavate has already moved his its best to restore normalcy in the State. Substitute Motion. Now Shri S. Jaipai I would appeal to the Centre that which- Reddy may move his substitute motion if ever State brings suitable measures to uplift he decide to move it. the backward classes and downtiodden they should be assisted in the implementation SHRI S, JAIPAL REDDY: I beg to processe$. All the hurdles in their irnp1e- move: 211 Motion Re : APR.IL 24. I98S Situation in Ahmedabad ?\'l That for the original metion, the foUow- These persons are eagar to repeat that Hag be substituted, namely :- experiment once again. The people of the country had then voted them out and had "This House having considered the not entrusted them with the responsibility to statement made by the Minister of Home rule the country and these people are now Affaris in the House on 23rd April, in the opposition but in the opposition also 1985 redargiqg Ahmedabad situation, they are not discharging their responsibilities takes note of the collapse of and defiance properly. I have been obverving for the last by law enforcing machinery in Gujarat two days that the opposition Members are and calls upon the Government of India very much agitated over the behaviour 1)f to intervene to restore normalcy in the the police and the goings on the Gujarat. State." For the last ten days I had been expecting (Translation] the Opposition to demand discussion on the anti-reservation movement being launched SHRI ZAINUL BASHIR (Ghazipur): in Gujarat. The anti-reservation movement Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Shri Madhu had been started in Gujarat earlier also over Dandavate is not present in the house. The the question of reservation in medical colleges last thing that he said was not in good taste. and I remember that in the Sixth Lok Sabha He said that if his demand was not accepted as well the opposition members had adopted by this House, he would fight outside the all possible ways to have a discussion over House also. When a leader of the stature of the issue here. They had even staged a Shri Madhu Dandavate talks in such terms, dharna in the House. At that time, the it is not surprising that other members of members of the Scheduled Castes were in a his party and also of other parties would also majority in the Opposition and they had think of taking the matter to the streets in- compelled the Speaker to allow discussion stead of deciding it through this House in a on the issue but this time they are keeping democratic manner. The Members had said mum. So, their statement about reservation at length that we were heading towards the for the Scheduled Caste, the Scheduled Tribes 1974 situation .. , (Interruptions). and the backward classes is totally hollow. When the police deals with the anti-reserva- That is what you want but we are not tionists with a heavy hand, they feel pertained going to do tbat. and say that the police have been beating the agitationists and commiting excesses on Such an atmosphere had been created them. For the last two days, they have been for the first time in Gujarat in 1974 and it impalient to have a discussion on this slowly spread to the other states as well. At issue. that time also, a demand for the dismissed of the Gujarat Government had been made and But in the present context, I fee) that the Shri Morarji Desai, who subsequently became most important point is not about the police the Prime Minister had observed a fast unto excesses but it is about the efforts being death in ahmedabad over this demand. Our made to launch an agitation against reserva- then Prime Minister, Shrimati Indira Gandhi, tion in Gujart which is the birth place of took Shri Morarji Desai to be a well inten- Mahatma Gandhi. The saddest part of it is tioned man and dismissed the Government that such a movement has been launched in in Gujarat but his intentions were mala fide. Gujarat and not in any other part of the )n this way this movement, starting from country. It is the most important national Gujarat, reached Bihar incid"ots of violence issue which they had ignored and on which were witnessed in the entire country and they have not demanded a discussion. thus an atmosphere of violence pervaded Dandavateji might remember that the throughput the h:ngth and breadth of the Opposition Members had exerted great countr)(. rolitics then shifted its venue from pressure on the Speaker at that time for the democratic institutions to the streets. having a discussion and had also staged a Therefore, Go.vermnent W3$ left, with no dhama. At that time, the Members of tile other alternative but to declar" a. state of Scheduled Castes were in a majority in, the Emergency in the country. These Opposition and they were quite vocaL But people reaped the benefits of the this time they have chosen to keep mum. I Emergency "no ~me to power in 1977. tt~ve been observing tbe activities of the S.l 213- Motion Re : VAISAKHA ,\;of907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 214 people for the last one week. They should faith in the democratic values 1 If Prof. have demanded discussion in this regard at Madhu Dandavate can speaks in these terms, that time. If a discussion had taken place in then what the General Secretary of his party the House at that time then what is happen- had said in England must be cent per Cent ing in Gujarat at present could have been true. The opposition parties are hatching a avoided. A discussion in this House could conspiracy to bring back the situation of have a salutary effect on the people of 1977. I warn the Government and the Home Gujarat. Minister to guard against the deSigns of these people because they want to create the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : The same type of atmosphere again. They are Prime Minister had made a statement in planning to enact the same drama in Mahara- Ahemdabad which gave the impression that shtra also. Efforts are a foot ·to cr eate the he wanted t6 change the policy of reservation same situation in Bihar and in Uttar Pradesh. and the Home Minister had told me in this They want to create an atmoshpete of House that this wrong impression had been violence in the entire country so that the created by the press. The Home Minister has police and the Government are compelled to assured that the basis of reservation would take action. In that situation, there is oot be changed. tikelihood of some excess beiilI committed SHRI ZAINUL BASHER: But you somewhere and they would get: an opportunity had not demanded a discussion on the anti- to exploit it to their advantage for comina reservation movement being launched in into power. These persons want to capt\fft Gujarat. A discussion ought to have been power by hoot or by rook. Governmcm held in this House in regard to that movement. sbould see through the game of the Opposj..; A discussion had taken place in the past as tion and p~t down their movements with an well in which he (Prof. Madhu Dandavate) iron hand. Besides, efforts should be made had also taken part. Shrimati Geeta to create a political atmosphere in the country Mukherjee haa. talked about the Bharatiya wherein· the people could be warned aaainst Janata Party. You would remember the such elements. speech of Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. In the How will a democratic decision be taken ? first half of his speech he had talked about Who will be elected to this House 1 How anti-reservationists and in the latter half he will the country be governed? Will these had spoken in favour of reservation. This matters be decided by the votes of the people was, perhaps, his most confused speech. Prof. or fought out on the streets? The people Madhu Dandavate is a very learned leader have recently given their verdict. After five and he has full faith in democracy. I hold years, voting will be held again. Prof. Madhu him in high esteem. But what he had stated Dandavate and the members of his party at the end of his speech started· everyone and of other opposition parties should go to here. He had said that if his plea was not the people and tell them where our policies accepted in the House he would fight outside had gone wrong and when the people vote the House also. for them, they can come to power. But the (English] democracy in the country will not be a success if we take the issues to the streets PROF. N. G. RANGA (Guntur): Mr. and take recourse to the politics of violence. Dandavate, have you resiled from the We being in the ruling party, our responsibi- position? lity to rlln the Government in a democratic manner is the greatest. Therefore, I warn PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Rajapur) : All struggles do not take place the Government of India to guard apinst inside the House. Through peaceful and non- such activities of the opposition parties and .vjQlent means, we shall fight outside the enlighten the people about them. The material collected about. their activities should. House also. I?c made available to the people. But !be PROF. N. G. RANOA: I am glad mistake of imposing E!necgency and of that· you said this, after I pointed it out. dismissing the Gujarat Government. should not be repeated. At that time the Govern-- . [Translation] ment of Gujarat had been dismissed with SHRI ZAINUL BASHER : Is this your good intentions. The present Government came to power after getting three-fourths of tbat he will implement the RServation policy. the total votes. We should not interfere with Why has he put it in the cold storage after this verdict of the people. About 10 or·5 per the elections are over? Was it not for cent people are out to create an atmosphere political gains? Before hon. members from of violence. It would not be proper to that side speak, I would request them to interfere in the affairs of the Gujarat Govern- introspect their own souls. ment. Prof. Madhu Dandavate may stage a dharna in the House of launch a movement [Trans/ation] in the streets but there is no question of SHRI RAM PYARE PANlKA (Roberts- dismissing the Gujarat Government. ganj): Why had all opposition parties and AN HON. MEMBER: The people will also members from this side been demand- throw them out. ing time and again before the elections that the recommendations of the MandaI Commis- SHRI ZAINUL BASHER : Let the sion should be implemented ? people throw them out. People threw you out and can throw any party out. But [English] democracy will not be successful if we take recourse to violence. The· opposition parties Time and again, you have been demand- are as much responsible for running the ing it. What were the reasons '1 Let me country on democratic lines as we are. It is know. (Interruptions) Elections are to be held now. regrettable that the opposition parties are not discharging their responsibilities properly [Translation] in this regard. This aspect would also have to be kept Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, 1 am grateful in mind and when you speak, you bear it in to you for giving me the opportunity to mind. speak and with these words, I conclude roy speech. [English] They have been divided due to political [English} reasons. (Interruptions) I want that the SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO whole House should know about it and (Parvathipuram) : Before I start, let me first through it the country should know about make it clear that on the policy of reserva- it. tion, whether it was for SC and ST or the SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. backward communities, we have always DEO : I want my friends to listen to the supported its continuance and its implementa- translation of my speech before they tion as per the provisions in the Constiution intervene: and in the right" spirit. The members who have spoken earlier have spoken emotionally, We have supported the Mandai Commis- trying to draw a parallel between Punjab sion Report; we had pressed for a discussion and Assam and to the situation that is on that Report in this House; in the 6th confronting Gujarat. (Interruptions) Yes, Lok Sabha, we had supported it. Even now, there may be a parallel, but the record has we stand by it. (Interruptions) If the p~ople to be put straight. What happaned in Punjab? have voted for you, if you have got the It was this government which deliberately majority and if you think that you are the delayed or deferred the solution in Punjab. saviour of the people, why have yon not I know there was a time when Sardar Swaran done it? If we come to power, we will do Singh was almost on the verge of clinching it; it is not your business to ask about it. the Punjab issue when he was called back. I do not know for what reasons. You did it PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Now for political gains to get Hindu votes from the Karnataka Government has gone one the northern belt. You got them, but at step ahead of the MandaI Commission Report. ,; '~h~t cost? You got them at the cost of the iife' of the late Prime Minister. Let this not SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. happen in Gujarat and elsewhere. It was DEO : What has happened in Gujarat the Chief Minister of Gujarat, Madhav Singh deserves to be condemned by aJJ. We Solanki who promised on the eve of elections certainly do deplore the way the Head 211 1,1011011 k : Constable was kUled and the way unruly I wiU send a copy of my· speech to elements participated in the violence and Mr. Ranga. . the way police turned into hoodlums and the acts of vandalism. This cannot be MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That name excused by anybody. It was shocking to will not go on record. hear friends from the other side trying to SHRI V. KRISHNA CHANDRA defend the barbarous attitude that the police S. DEO : Yes, we have discussed it in this bad adopted in Gujarat. I charge the way very House. There is no time for me now to made use of by the ruling party to wreak mention it. vengenee against political opponents and against those who wanted to do it. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE Sir, you a]so said** goes? A friend of mine from the other side- he is not here-Shri Das Munsi was refer- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : His name would go. ring to the attack of the CPM on Anand Bazaar Patrika. I would like to ask him PROF. N. G. RANGA He went to what happened to Anand Bazaar Patrika. the people, he came back again with an man when he went to Ahmedabad. I am sure overwhelming majority. many of you must have read the Times of India today. You must have seen the SHRI V. KRISHNA CHANDRA picture of a young journalist witb a bandage, S. DEO : Mr. Deputy Speaker, three days with a fractured hand. I saw bim, I met him. before this arson and looting took pJace in He had gone to Ahmedabad. While he was Gujarat, I am also told that the Chief on the streets of Ahmedabad a pregnant lady Minister h:::d warned certain journalists that was going to the hospital with a curfew pass. if they did not behave themselves they had She waS stripped and beaten by the Police to meet with certain grave consequences and she delivered on the road. And this which they ultimately met with after three journalist, this young journalist, a frie.,d of days. A friend here asked what the Chief mine. whom I met today and from whom Minister had got to do with it ! What? The I verified wanted to take a photograph of Chief Minister had nothing to do with it ? this to complai. They took away his cameras Who was responsible? The Chief Minister and they beat him up for two hours, fractured was responsible for the breakdown of the his hand and later on in the Police Station constitutional mechinery in that State. he was told that if he opened his mouth or SHRI AJA Y MUSHRAN : I did not say said anything about what happened earlier, this. What I said was ... he would be killed and cut up and thrown to the gutter. If this is the attitude of the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Please sit Police, I charge that the Police was misused down. I will not allow the hon. Member. in this manner against the journalists, for SHRI ' V. KRlSHNA CHANDRA the exposure that they made against this S. DEO : I am not yielding. This is the third Government earlier for all the corrupt time that I am in this House. I have partici- practices that** was involved in. pated in the discussions on various subjects. When a Chief Minister fails to control even PROF. N. G. RANGA : What. the Police and on the other hand becomes SHRI V. KRISHNA CHANDRA an a better to turning them into hoodlums S. DEO : Yes, it is my charge. and vandals then the Chief Minister deserves to be sacked lock, stock and barrel. If this PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE We was done in any other State, the President's have discussed it. Rule would have been imposed forthwith-. But what wag done in Gujarat? NothiDg SHRI V. KRISHNA CHANDRA was done. Unless this Go·... emment· is S. ·DEO : Yes, we discussed it. removed, unless it is dismissed nothing can come out, what the truth is, that has led to PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: We these various developments in that particular have discussed it. State. **Not recorded. , 219 Molia" Re : ApllIL 24. 1985 Situation in AhmedabikJ 220 Friends have referred, sarcastically to sympathy has been expressed for the innocent certain statements made about going to the people who have either lost their Ih;es or streets. I would remind my friends from the limbs or property in the situation that has other side of what they did between 1977 been created. So. I demand that this Govern- and 1979. When we talk of taking to the ment be dismissed forthwith. streets, we do not mean what they did in 1979. I do not mean going into court rooms, AN HON. MEMBER : What about breaking chairs etc. But in· a democracy, if Tripura? a Government fails to protect the freedom, SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. fails to govern, fails to educate, legislation DEO : If other Governments behave like fails, we have to go to the streets to educate this, we will demand their dismissals also. the people about the issues; and we have to educate them. I would appeal to the Home Minister to let t'1.e House know how they are going to PROF. N. O. RANGA : How? deal with the victims and those who have PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : By been badly affected in the recent riots. I non-violent and peaceful means. Mahatma would also like to know the attitude of the Gandhi would not be killed so easily in this Central Government towards its own Stale country. Government which is completely responsible for this situation which has been created in SHRI V. KRISHNA CHANDRA Gujarat and how it is thinking of solving this S. DEO: 1 would like to repeat that if this problem at an early date. Government fails, we will have no other alternative but to go to the streets to educate SHRI G. G. SWELL (Shillong): I do the people about tbe follies of this Govern- not know the position today. But what had happened in Gujarat till yesterday was deeply ment. distressing and unsetlling. I would like to Several Members have referred to 1974-75 say that what happens in Gujarat now is an situation. Some Members also forgot that obje~ lesson. It may happen in any other part this is a democracy. After all, wbat happened of the country tomorrow. So, in that respect. In 1914-77? The answer to it was given by I would like to compliment the Home the people in 1977: The events proved what Minister and the Government for having the ruUng party was doing, and what the come forward Sou motu for a discussion on opposition was fighting for. But what happen- this problem in the House. 1 think, \vc ed was the culmination of tbe events of should take the Motion of the Government 1974-17 when the Congress was thrown out in that spirit that they have nothing to hide; lock stock and barrel for certain things which they would like to hear our views in order had been encouraged by the people at high to find a way to a solution and if possible, places and even the ruling Party. And if to have the full support of this House in that happens again, a repetition will take what they should do in order to overcome place. Let me warn you about it. the situation in Gujarat. AN HON. MEMBER: How many Chief As far as I can see the original question Ministers were thrown out ? of reservation has taken a back seat in Gujarat today. It is no longer the struggle SHRI V. KRISHNA CHANDRA between the reservationists and the anti- S. DEO : Yes, lock stock and barrel. reservationists. The struggle is multi-dimen- (Interruptions) sional. It is inter-caste-what business one The Home Minister, in his statement. has caste has got against the other. It is not expressed a single word of condemnation communal-what one community has got for the act of vandalism that was unleashed against the other. And it has involved a Oft the journalists. The press buildings were certain behaviour of tlJe security forces, burnt and set fire too, people were manbed- which is an unusual situation. led and beaten and WOttiell were molested. Since you have said that I have only 'fi~ Nothing h reservation policy has been a policy of this were electio':ls, free and fair as far as possible country over the years in which there has and the people of Gujarat have returned this been a consensus in this House. Is it reason- party and this Government to power. Does able for anybody, not on the· Floor of the it lie in a few hoodlums in the State and that House but on the street, through killing, tOO in one city in the State I am not sure through obsenity. to demand that policy how far the whole Gujarat is involved in should be dropped here and [lOW ? Is it it-does it lie in those few people to say possible? Is it expected of any Government that this Government should go and does it to succumb to that kind of demand 'I I lie in the Opposition to lend support to that would ask my friends in the Opposition kind of a demand? If we do that sort of whether they would like a situation like that? thing. today it happens in Gujarat, tomorrow it may happen in Bengal and day after SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. tomorrow it may happen in Tripura. Then where do we stand? In Karnataka it can SHRI G. G. SWELL: In that case there happen. It is essay to engineer trouble, to will be no democracy in this country, it will get a few people on the streets. It is easy be the rule of the mob and the rule of the to do that. There are any number of dis- street. On this question of reservation, the gruntled political elements . .. (lnterruptions). Government has made its posItion very clear. What I can say is that policemen are also As far as the reservation for the Scheduled human beings, just as you and I are. When Castes and the Scheduled Tribes is con.:erned. I am placed in that position, I am attacked it is already there. It is only the question or certain things are done to me, I am likely of reservation of certain Backward Classes to react in any form. It depends on a person. in which they say they have an open mind, I may react in the sense that I might kill ten they would like a discussion to arrive at a people with my own hands in a certain consensus. What more sensible offer can be situation. there be? What 1 am saying is that the people who are out on the streets in Ahmeda- 15.00 brs. bad, who started the agitation, they Of course, I can never perceive of any are asking that the policy of reservation in decent man trying to react in his anger by toto ... (Interruptions). obscinity on women. It is really a kind of insanity. But I really do not know what is AN HON. MEMBER: No. the situation in Gujarat. If certain things SHRI G. G. SWELL: I am talking of have happened there and the police have the people on the streets in Ahmedabad, not done certain things, the question is why it about him. I give him the benefit of the is done. It is because the situation there is doubt, I am not going to include him in that bad. It is a multi-dimensional Situation mob. Their demand is that this reservation prevailing there. There is, as I said, so mu~h should be dropped here and now. That 'is of a confusing situation, there is so much of something which nobody can support. I onmity, so much of bad feeling against each would like the Opposition to say here and other. And this is why I say that Gujarat now that they support the Government inso· today is an objective lesson for who!e of far as this policy of reservation is concerned. India. Therefore, 1 think there is no point in this debate unless and until we are able to The second thing that is being demanded send out a message to the people of Gujarat today is that the present Government of that this is what the Parliament wants. What Gujarat should go. We follow democracy. do we want? We want that this madness in Only a couple of months ago, there were Gujarat must stop. This is one clear Jesson elections free and fair electiolls in a derilO· that should go from here. We want to see cratic way ... (Interruptions). that the process of democracy in this country AIM BON. MEMBER: Doubtful. is kept in tact. If today you say that the present Chief Minister is not desirable tlien SHRI G. G. SWELL: If it is doubtful there is a way of removing him, but not by there, it is doubtful everywhere. It could be heeding and succumbing to the demands of a doubtful in Karnataka. it would be doubtful few hoodlums in the street. I think we in Andhra Pradesh. You can say many should have one opinion as far as this thing . thinp on that. But the point is that there is concerned • 223 Motion Re : APRIL 24. t9~ Situation In Ahmedabad 224 PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : So help here if we do the same thing which they many Chief Ministers have been removed. ate doing in Gujarat. If we do so, then we are doing that with our tongue what tbey are SHRI G. G. SWELL: Yes, but through doing with their hands, fighting against each democratic process with the fall of their other, killing each other. Therefore, what I Government in the assembly. would like to appeal is that some sanity PROF. N. G. RANGA : He was elected should be restored, and some clear message only two months ago and now you want him should go to Gujarat that the Government to be dismissed. of India and the Parliament of India are one in their desire that they want this madness SHRI G. G. SWELL : If Mr. Madhav should stop. Everybody should raise his Singh Solanki has been found .... hands in favour of this. Everybody should discuss this matter coolly, because it is not SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: Mr. Arjun only Gujarat that is being destroyed, if such Singh was removed within twenty four hours. a trend is continued may be whole of. India SHRI G. G. SWELL: No, he was never may be destroyed tomorrow. removed. Don't have wrong ideas. I would now refer to the substitute I am saying you want Mr. Madhav Singh motions table~ by my friend Prof. Madhu Solaoki to be removed, but in action it seems . Dandavate and my friend Mr. Jaipal Reddy. you are his best friends, because by this I can see that the thrust of the substitute kind of demanJ no Government, no authority motion is that the Union Government should worth the salt is going to listen to you. On immediately and effectively intervene to bring the othe;r hand if he is founJ to be inade- normalcy in Ahmedabad. What has the quate for the situation as it is prevailing, it Central Government not been doing? They is not for the Opposition, but I think it is for have done everything to use their good offices the People in the Congress Party who are to bring normalcy there. The Home Minister there. If they think that somebody else can has gone there. He is very much involved do a better job, any time they can take a about it and the very fact that he has decision in that regard. Therefore, let the brought this motion before the House an democratic process take its course. Let us indication of his involvement and his desire not mix up the things. Let us not make the to seek your support. situation worse in Gujarat. This debate wiII PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : not serve any purpose, if we start laying blame Thanks for supporting the substitute motion. on each other. If we do that, what has happen~d in Gujarat will be taken into the SHRl G. G. SWELL: You are not floor of this House and into the whole of the saying anything new in that case. And as country. So, let us at least on consensus far as the other thing is concerned," I think send a me,sage down to Gujarat that Parlia- the assistance of the Army has been called to ment is one in its desire that the madness in bring about the normalcy. So, everything Gujarat must stop. And what is the instru- has been done as far as that is concerned. ment for doing that? Of course, it is the But if you have any other political motive, Government that can do that. then I say that you are lacking in sincerity and not really wanting to bring the situation PROF. MADHU DANDAV ATE: Will in Gujarat under control. And therefore, you say a word about the destruction of the if you are sincere about it, you should hear Press '? what the Home Minister says. As a matter SHRI G. G. SWELL : Whatever has of fact, if he has added a few words after happened to the Press, whatever has happend moving his motion and told us what the to our sisters in Gujarat, whatever has happen- situation in Gujarat is today, whether it has ed to others, I put the blame on the madness. improved or not, perhaps it would have It is the mad Situation in which everybody helped us. We really do not know about it. has behaved in a most irrational manner. It All our sources of information are only the would not serve any purpose to say that this newspapers, we really do not know what is bas been done and that has been don;>. So happening there. We do not know whether many things can be pone and everyone can all that the newspapers say is true or may put the bla.me. Oil each Qtber, bl,lt it <,l~s pot ~ they are nQt sarjn~ as fllgch as they 2%S Motion ke : VAISAKHA 4, 1901 (SAKA) Situation in Ahnredttbad 22't5 tdtould. But I would say, let this debate be not allowed. Then in the Speaker's Chamber Ikooessed. If we say the Government must I submitted photos specially showing the idtervene, they wiU intervene in all possible atrocities of police on ladies during this ways in order to bring that situation under agitation. The matter has not been looked 80nK'ol. Let us give the Government. ONr into seriously. This things which happened fun supp<1rt to do that. Thank you. two days back should not have happened. PROF. MADHU DANDAV ATE: Sir, I tell you, this agitatinn is independently after his speech, I think the Minister can handled by the students and parents. Very acre",t my substitute motion. recently I came to know that actually the people who are interested in this agitatioft MIt. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let us see. and are taking part are the people from the SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: Even the Ruling Party, those who had not been given Deputy Spea\:er is hopeful. tickets in the last election. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let us see. SHRI B.K. GADHVI : That is not that.is all. correct. DR. A. K. PATEL (Mehsana) : Mr. (Interruptions) Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say DR. A. K. PATEL: I have got the infor- something about the present grave situation mation. I would not name them, but I CaB in Gujarat. Before I say something, I would submit them to you. like to clarify about the reservation policy of lily Party. We are being unnecessarily and MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER; No, no. wrongly blamed by the Ruling Party friends Don't do that. saying that the BJP is supporting this agita- (Interruptions). tion. I tell you, Sir, that very recently SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY They are the State Executive Committee meeting was inviting even names ! held at Junagadh only on 13th and 14th of (Interruptions). this month. We are very clear about this reservation policy and we have given this PROF. MADH U DANDA V A TE : Only press note that we favour this reservation, the Chair can name. and we have been unnecessarily and wrongly MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I do not blamed for supporting the agitation. want to name anybody now. Much has been said about the present DR. A. K. PATEL: I mention about situation by my friends. I would like to say the rowdism in the Gomtipur area. I sohnri- about this only in a nutshell. On last Friday nly say that I personally visited the Gomtipur only I approached the hon. Speaker in his area adjacent to Bramhapur area and talked Chamber with the press notes and cuttings t~ the ladies who were affected. One lady and 1lOme information which I got from narrated the whole thing. In her area, the Gujarat. He was not prepared to believe police came. She saw more than 6 or 1 about this hooliganism of the police people policemen moving in the nude without itt Ahmedabad. Then. I contacted people at clothes. One of them entered her house ana Ahmeeabad on telephone and I confirmed one 01<1 lady was sleeping on the cot. she that the matter was very clear and it was a was severely injured in the po lice beating. fact. So, the next day morning I left for Police gave a blow to her left leg and it get. Ahmodabad. Along with me there were some fractured. One child of two years old was of my friends from the Congress (I) in the just playing near the cot. She was train; I also requested them to accompany thrown off. It was really a ghastly me 'to go through the streets and study the incident, I would not like to say much. ftact siuration. But in one or the other way That policeman climbed on the roof of thtJ they avoided and I moved through the streets. house and he was maked. He stayed on ffJt (Interruptions). They were guilty conscious. some hours. The widow lady had 4 daughteI'A (interruptions) and she tried to hide a11 the children in side i visited tnore than 1000 families, moved her house. I am prepared to accept in? ~ 10 tniles ali foot for two days to challenge. If I am proved wrong in this cOllect the iftformation and on Monday Ir.at~r, I am prepared to resign. i would DUJfR~ I tried to raise that problem here inl':ite even some of my colleagues MPs and immediately after Question BOUT, b\lt I was hon. Lady MPs to accompany ,me to the; 227 Motion Re: APRIL 24, 1985 Situation in Ahmedabad 228 site of the incident. I give you names. They position in Gujarat should be normalised can go and visit Ahmedabad and find out immediately. That should be done by the facts. I would give you the full and giving the charge to the military to look correct addresses. In this matter, I am very after the welfare of the people. Though the clear and sure about these things. police are there on duty they are just onlook- ers. They just instigated the peopJe. I Much has been said about other atroci- visited Ahemedabad and many mohallahs. I ties and I would not like to add much. The visited a mohallah near the civil hospital. reservation policy was declared during the That was of Patel Mohallah. I just entered time of elections. That was only for political there and talked with them and requested gain. Had other friends in other Parties them not to become party in the agitation been taken into confidenee, this situation and in this sort of thing. Then they told me would not have happened. After the political that one PSI-the name I can give but I would gains Mr. Solanki CM, withdrew this not like to give it here-came with the people policy. This brought the reaction in the from a Harijan Mohallah and tried to attack people who believed in reservation. This was these people. These are the disturbances actually the cause of the agitation. Because created by the police themselves. of Government's this attitude, the agitation PROF. N. G. RANGA: Not whole of started. It was because of a political gain to the police. Best of them are doing their them. job. For the last two days, the behaviour of DR. A. K. PATEL: Ma y be. But they the police is the worst." I cannot describe it. are part and parcel of the police. The SRP I have no words to describe the beastiality of and other people have become mad cI3,ps, the police in which they behaved in Ahmeda- as my predecessors have pointed out. bad only a few days back. I also strongly condmn the murder of the police. But what SHRI B. K. GADHYI : Please don't tell about so many other people who were killed the story which provokes people. That is in this agitation? They were also equal how the weaker sections are being attacked citizens. So far as the life is concerned, any by the upper castes. Please don't tell that other man or a pohceman~ it is the same. Harijans came to attack Patels. But, in fact, They should also. be equally respected and Patels have attached Harijans. You kind1y compensa ted. stop telling that story because that will Jead to further escalation in the situation. Much has been said about the freedom of the Press and other things. But the worst DR. A. K. PATEL: I do not agree with thing is the damage done to the Gujarat you. Soma char. I tell you, it was giving the exact ~ picture of Gujarat. But it was not subduing Lastly, I would say that the Central to the will of the Chief Minister. That is Government should immediately intervene in why, it was attacked and destroyed. When this matter and stop all this nonsense and I visited Ahmedabad at 5 p.m. yesterday. It mad behaviour of the police either by impos- was still on fire. I heard the story from the ing the President's rule or by giving the Dharwan or Gorkha the gateman. He told charge to a proper person who can handle me that the policemen came in a jeep. They the situation in Gujarat nicely. severely beat that gate man and pushed him SHRI SHANT ARAM NAIK: He was down. They entered with gallons of petrol going to clarify his party's position. What and petrot bomb and threw them in the area about that? and set it a fire. It is still going on. The DR. A. K. PATEL: We have issued a firemen came but they were not allowed to press notification in Junagarh and· it has entinguish the fire. The worst possible . come in newspapers also. damage has been done economically to the Gujarat Samachar. What about the freedom SHRI AMAR ROYPRADHAN (Cooch of the Press which has been thus deprived Bihar) : Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, I rise of ? to condemn the police violence in· Gujr.rat in the strongest terms. At the same time, Well. Sir, I would not like to say much. I condemn the behaviour of the police which Bl,lt I will Q~m~nd only two t hjn~. The i~ ~Q better thap anyone else's. I strongly 229 Motion Re : VAISAKHA 4. i907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 23C protest against the attack on the freedom of and for ST 7i% and in Services, the the press. No one can deny the grave reservation for SC and ST is only 10.6%. situation that is prevailing in Gujarat, the Even after 36 years, this is the position. It arson, the looting, the raping of women and is a shame not only to the Congress but to killing of people there. All these things are the entire country. Gujarat is the birth- doing on. place of Mahatma Gandhi. Have you read the Scheduled Caste Commissioner's report The hon. Member opposite. Mr. Priya He has stated that even today there are Ranjan Das Munsi, posed a question before : some places where the peoole are not allowed Who is the architect of the anti-reservation to have their drinking water fr?on the same agitation? I would like to take full respon- well in Gujarat. It is the birth-place of sibility in saying that it is the Central Mahatma Gandhi! (Interruptions). Governmen"t which is responsible for this agitation. It is the Prime Minister of India In particular areas in Gujarat. there are who is responsible for this agitation. It is some schools which are meant for only the the Chief Minister of Gujarat who is respon- Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. sible for this agitation ... (Interruptions) I say The other schools are meant for the general it with full responsibility. public. It is in Gujarat. In the birth-place of Mahatma Gandhi, water is given with one PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: lfyou glass to Scheduled Castes, one to Scheduled say that the Centre is responsible. tbey may Tribes, one to Muslims and one for the demand that the State should intervene in the caste Hindus! Even after 37 years, this is Centre. the practice. It is not my view. It is the SHRI AMAR ROYPRADHAN: If you view of the Schedulad Caste Commissioner. kindly see tbe Approach Paper on the It is a fact that cannot be denied. Seventh Plan, in that you will find that I condemn the attitude of the Central there is a mention that the reservation policy Government in this respect also because it is will be reviewed. It is from there that the the Central Government which has engineered anti-reservation agitation started. You cannot all this policy of division in different States. deny it. It is the P~ime Minister who made It is the proper time that the Chief Minister a statement just before the Assembly elec- of Gujarat should resign immediately. tions that there would be a review of the reservation policy. It is the Chief Minister SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : I have of Gujarat who said that there will be 49 tabled the substitute motion. Let me speak. per cent reservation and, ultimately, just after the elections, he said. no. it will not MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Not be there. It may be an election stunt. But necessary. they played with fire. SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY I have The Congress-I Party is doing very much moved the motion. the same as what the Britishers used to do MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have here. They used to fol1ow the divide-and- already given sufficient time to all the rule policy vis-a-vis Hindus, Muslims, Members. That is enough. The hon. Minis- Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and ter will speak now. other castes and communities. (Interruptions) The Congress wants to do the same SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: I do not thing throughout India as they have done in want the practice of a person moving a Gujarat. "On one side, you are prohibiting substitute motion not being allOWed to reservation and on the other, you are follow- speak. ing anti-reservation policy. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : I AN HON. MEMBER: Divide and think the motions moved are circulated. He r"ule. must be given some time. SHRJ AMAR ROYPRADHAN (Interruptions) Certainly it is. What has happened to Sched~ uled Castes in Gujarat? There in schools MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER I have and colleges. the reservation for SC is 15% given a chance to every party. .. ' , . 231 Motion Re : AP.RIL 24.1985 Situation in ~ 2:J2 PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: He appeal to you to kindJy bear in mind some wants to speak on his Motion. of the statements that you have made on the floor of the House, to which I am going to MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sometimes refer in a short while. five or six Members may give substitute Motions. The Chair cannot give time to all Unnecessarily this has generated a kind of of them to speak. We have already taken emotion which normally should have been more than three and a half hours. I cannot avoided in this House where every matter allow. The Minister will reply. I am sorry. is dispassionately and objectively discussed and we .come to good conclusions. Lookiq THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS to the precedents that we have, I can say. we (SHRI S. B. CHAVAN) : Mr. Deputy have been following a very good tradition of Speaker, Sir, I must express my thanks to creating normalcy wherever things have 8OJ1C aU tlw llQn. Members ... wrong. SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: What is The whole agitation started with ~ your ruli~. Sir 1 policy of reservation announced by ~ MR. DBPUTY SPEAKER: The Minis. Gujarat Government which later on de~pe. leF will reply. rated into a communal strife; later on, I am sorry to say, some sections have even gone SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: I have to the extent of opposing even the reserva. raised a point of order. You cannot rule tion given to the Scheduled Cast" and QUt a point of order like this. You have to Scheduled Tribes. Their leaders speak here offer an explanation. all right. It wjll not be out of place if I were to mention this. A delegation came to me MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have yesterday. After having gone back, th~y f\llO.d out the point· of order. I need not have given a Press Conference and certain aive any explanation. The Minister will things were stated there. I do not prop~s~ reply. to deal with other matters. But this aspect, SHRI S. B. CHAVAN: Sir, I must I did ask them: how is it that in Guj,m~t exprees my thanks to all the hon. Members the leaders happen to be signatories to an who have participated in this discussion and appeal req uesting aU sections in G1,ljar instructions of the High Court. High Court he mentioned it, it was in a different spirit. wanted discreet inquiry to be conducted by So, I think, as it is being clarified, I have a .Revenue Secretary to be assisted by the nothing to say about it. Registrar of the High Court and his Assistant Rc:giitrar. Then were to be assisted by two PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: We police. people. One was the Head Constable, will go out and fight it in the non-violent another was a Home Guard and the Photo- way of Mahatama Gandhi. grapher. The damaged property was to be SHRI S. B. CHA VAN : You are now photographed. When they went there. I do saying it. You did not say it. not know, without any provocation they were being attacked and the Head Constable PROF. MADAU DANDAVATE: Can succumbed to his injuries on the spot. The you point out a single violent incident in Ho:ne Guard was very badly injured. He which I have participated? had to be adnitted in the hospital. His condition yesterday was stated to be very SHRI S. B. CRAVAN : In fact I have serious. I don't have the latest report but if clarified that position. I don't have any you are going to take this kind of attitude. quarrel on that issue at all. My only object I think •... (Interruptions). is this : Are we going to support this kind of a proposal that if executive, according to [Translation1 you, were not to give whatever you want, it SHRI C. MADHAV REDDY : The is the judiciary through which you are going police personnel who have been killed and to get it? And jf that process is being the other people who are being killed ... continued-the way it is being stated here- (Interruptions) I think it will be a very unfortunate thing. Then it is a clcarcut invitation for [English 1 some of the wings of this democratic MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please sit institution to go on encroaching without down. No interruptions, please. Mr. Reddi. taking the responsibility. We don't have please listen to me. Nothing will go on anything to say against it. After record without my permission. all, they are within their right. They have full right to exercise; 1 have nothing to (Interruptions)·· say about 1t. But at the same time when SHRI S, B. CHAV AN: I 3m not you exercise your judgment, your right, it yielding. You had an opportunity at has to be coupled with the responsibility that time. You did not mention the also. You say that we don't allow the point that you are now raising. If you had Government to go to a particular area, the mentioned certainly I would have clarified area is totally excluded for the executive. the same. But the point which I was Fair enough. Then it should be substituted during at was that there are certain areas by something else. There is nothing. That and it will be always advisable, if the legis- is why I must appreciate that later on when lature were to be within its right and juris- tbe High Court was appmached and the diction and not encroaching on the rights whole thing was placed before them that and responsibility either of the judiciary or this is the situation, this is the kind of law of the executive normally the situation will and order situation prevailing in that area not arise; and vice versa too. Mr. Madhu and if you have to still give injunction not Dandavate gave us to understand this. Hav- to allow the police officer to enter in that ing failed to get justice from the executive- area, then, the law and order issue will he has also mentioned-if the officers were become all the more complicated, things are to fail in getting justice even in this august found to deteriorate, that is why they were House-the latter portion I would not like pleased to give a stay order. They stayed to repeat-because he himself has said, or at the entire action. There is the discreet least his friend has clarified, that it is with enquiry which they ordered, of which the a view to educate the people they wiU 'tike report is expected by the 25th of this month. to go to the people. Fair enough. There They themselves have given us stay order. is nothing wrong about it. Actually when The whole thing happened in a very proper **Not to be recorded. 237 Molion Re : VAISAKHA 4~ 1907 (SAKA) Situation in Ahmedabad 238 atmosphere, I must say. Each one can any of the hon. members of the House are understand and appreciate ... interested in creating any. kind of a situation which would lead to destabilisation. At PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: least we believ'! so. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since he has referred to the judgment of the high court PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Why I would suggest that the court judgment do you say so? Be cb;uatable enough in should be laid on the table of the House. giving us compliments. We will find out whether the entire police SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : I said that this were prevented or only a particular notorious is my belief. officer was prever.ted ... SHRI K. P. UNNIKRISHNAN I SHRI S. B. ClIAVAN : Court judgment understand the subtlety. is public ICfoperty. It is published. If it has to be made available to everyone of us, SHRI S. B. CHAVAN : If you were to it will take some time for me to get it. take this as a left-handed compliment, certainly I do not have any objection to it. SHRI K. P. UNNIKRTSHNAN: I am But. at the same time, the whole thing is sure you have got a copy of it ? not connected. But certain things happening in certain areas at least give the ordinary SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : I don't have a man an impression that other forces are copy. working within the country. which are trying SHRI K. P. UNNIKRISHN AN : What to create a situation of destabilisation. Duly you are saying-is it based on some messa- elected governments are being asked to be ges or some information which you have dismissed and the President's Rule is received? demanded. SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : This information PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Who was supplied to us. On that basis 1 am said so ? On the contrary, I said, "I am not saying this. (Interruptions) demanding President's Rule. I want Union's intervention." It can be anything. For SHRI K. P. UNNIKRISHNAN It is instance, tomorrow your Party my decide to total misinterpretation. change the Chief Minister. They have been changing so many Chief Ministers. PROF. MADHU DANDAV ATE: 1 will lay the judgment on the table of the House. (Interrupt ions) SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : It is my mistake SHRI S. B. CHAVAN: That is all that I have not properly understood you. right. The offshoot of the whole discussion If none of the hon. members is interested in was this. (Interruptions) I don't think I need having the President's Rule. why should I say anything else. But there is a kind of unnecessarily go into it ? feeling that we get that these are not isolated instances or isolated incidents which have PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : We been taking place. Somehow we get this do not want to trouble the President too kind of impression that the whole thing much, Sir. seems to be connected. In different areas, SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : If duly elected certain things are ha-ppeniu6 and we do not governments are going to be sacked and the know whether it is designed or whether manner in which it was being stated on the they are doing it independently. I do not floor of the House ... have any material to substantiate if I have to say that the whole thing is linked up. I SHRI K. P. UNNIKRISHNAN: As in do not have that material at my disposal at Sikkim, as in Andhra Pradesh and as in this stage. But I wish that it were not so. Janimu and Kashmir ... AN HON. MEMBER: I will give you MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Please, the material. Mr. Unnikrishnan, do not interrupt. SHRI S. B. CHAVAN : I wish the whole SHRI K. P. UNNIKRISHNAN: Right· thins i$ not connected. I do not think that to interruption is there. AMIL '24, 1985 Situation in Ahmedabad ~ MR. DEPUTY S~EAKER: It is there our interfering in the normal functioning Of only jf he yields and not otherwise. the State Government. We 'Would IIket tf) give them full freedom. They are also SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : So you would created under the Constitution; they .know like the same thing to be repeated. wbat their rights and responsibilities are, and Mr. Unnikrishnan would like the same thing it would not be proper on the part on the to be repeated here. You won't like to have Central Government to interfere in their day. double stand.ards. to-day affairs. If there are major issues on lIROF. N. G. RANOA: That is exactly which we would like to use our good offices what they want. certainly we do that. Matters of this nat~ sometimes are being discussed; and thereafter, SHRI S. B. eRAVAN : I do not think I would not be surprised if similar matters that any of the hon. members will have a are also raised by other Members, and if wish that the Central Government should there is a temptation to raise those issues intervene in Andhra Pradesh, In Tripura and here, and have some kind of a discussion. so on to see that the duly elected governments Then it would be very difficult for the are sacked. I do not think that we can Government also to resist any such move afford to have double standards. I do not on the part of anyone else. think that the situation as is prevailing in Gujarat should be allowed to deteriorate. I do not propose to dilate any mere. I On the other hand, we should help them in think on some of the points, I have tried to coming to a normal situation. One of the clarify the position. But again I will appeal sinister motives and in fact I am rather to all the sections of this House and through intrigued on that issue - seems to be that you, Sir, to the people of Gujarat parti- there is a systematic effort to see that the cularly : Gujarat has enjoyed a very good police organisation is also blamed in such a repl,ltation in matters of administration and manner and demoralised so that it becomes in matters of development. It is a' very ineffective. I am not going to subscribe to good, industrially advanced State. In other the kind of actions which they have resorted developmental matters, they h:lVe done to. On the other hand, 1 have made it excellent work. So, this kind of an image absOlutely clear in my statement and if wh:ch is being tried to be created, I hope, you have gone through the statement, would be a temporary phase which would be you would have noticed it. Whatever be the erased within the shortest possible provocation -and pr0vocation in fact time; and every effort shoulil be was there, there is no doubt it, but at the made to sec that we approach the problem, same time-the uniformed service is not not with any vindictiveness, but in a spirit of supposed to behave in the way in which they goodwill, in a spirit of understanding. Even have behaved. There is no doubt about it. if the stujents or anyone else has committed a mistake, let us be generous and lat:ge- I may also say this that Governm~nt is hearted, and see that we begin a new chapter not against freedom of press. Maximum with a spirit of understanding. This kiRd freedom is being enjoyed by the press in this of a message, I am sure, with the assistallClC country and there should be no question of and cooperation of all the sections of this putting any curb on their freedom. House, will be carried to the people. of Gujarat. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : What [ am totally opposed to the two substi- is the decision of the Press Council regarding stopping of advertisements to Gujarat tute motions which have been tabled here. Samachar? I oppose them, and request the movers of those substitute motions kindly to withdraw SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : I do not think them. If they do not withdraw them t that all things concerning Oujarat sheuld be would request the House to reject them. ' decided by the Home Ministry or the PROF. MADH U DANDA VATE : Only Government of tndia. On all those other one crucial point: the Press has been matters which have been tliscmsed here, jf attacked for the first time; the press bas be~ti Gujarat Government is competent to take burnt. They have picked up three papers. whatever proper decisions, we would not like Therefore, I. want t~ know from him; just have any backward. precedent being created by as he has trted to bpk up the a$itation witb 24J Mollo_n Re : VAISAKHA .. 1907 (SAKA) Situation in A1unedabad 242 the atrocities, and the attacks with violence, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER'. N 0, I similarly, is it not a fact that because these cannot compel him. I request aU of you to three papers viz. Gujarat Samachar, Indian sit down. He is on his legs. I cannot allow Express and Ja: aSGtta exposed the atrocities ~Il of you here. If you don't listen. I will put of the Police, and because in the Mrugesh It to the vote. If everybody is standing like case on the stadium matter, they had opposed. this. I cannot allow. tbe Cpief Minister, that is why advertisements have been stopped, and that is why the PROF. MAPHU DANDAVATE: If YOll matter is before the Press Council? All take all the clarifications together, he is these things are inter-linked. Is this a fact likely to forget that. He has forgotten the or not? He is refusing to clarify this point, question which I raised. Shall I repeat it'1 aQd in his entire statement, he has not at all (Interruptions). It is a very serious thing. cPlldemned the attack on the Press. Read There is cause-effect relationship-the attack it carefully. He has not condemned the on the Press and the issue before the Press attac~-not a word. Even now he has not council and the exposure of the police condemned. authority. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Mr. Reddy, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have do you want to seek any clarification ? already put your question. Definitely. he would have known about it. But he is noi SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY interested in replying to these things. (Mahbubnagar): I would like to know whet'Ier the Home Minister has seen a news SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: He is Dot item in the Indian Express is morning about reacting to the boycott of the Press this the statement of Mr. Solanki to the effect morning. You are not condemning the ~lt!tck that he would not take action against the on the Press. The whole nation's Press boy- policemen who led the attack on the Press. cotted the proceedings of Parliament for two because their feelings were hurt. and their hours; and we raised it on the Floor of the feelings were hurt by the news item that House and the government did not react to appeared in the newspapers? Does the it. Mr. Salanki refused to condemn the Government of India subscribe to this policy attack on the Press. (Interruptions). line? MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : If the hon. SHRI S. B. CHAV AN : I do not have Minister wants to say anything about it. the authentic copy of the statement made by SHRI S. B. CHAVAN : I would not be the Chief Minister. I will try to find out. able to clarify about it. I do not know ahout and ascertain the facts from him. (Interruptions) the facts; I do not have the details. S HRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: Mr. Solanki PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Why has refused to condemn the attack on the have you come here for a discllssion? You brought the motion. Press; on the country. he has condoned the attack in so many words. He refused to SHRI S. B. CRAV AN : I don't think that take action against the·police. (Interruptions) it is a connected matter. All the connected SHRI K. P. UNNIKRISHNAN matters, I am prepared to clarify. The few (Badagara) : Did he cond emn the attack on points which were raised, if you see paragraph the Press? (Interruptions) 11 of my statement yesterday, I made a very clear statement condemning all kind of MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I request violence including ... (Interru.ptions). all of you not sta nd like this. All of you please sit down. SHRI K. P. UNNJKRISHNAN : Specifi- cally you have nothing to say about it; you (lnterru.ptions) don't want to condemn the attack on the Pr~s. That is the point, rn>t v~leuct=. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please a1l (lnterrupfions). of you sit down. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let him SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Let the finish. Home Minisrer stand up and condemn it for failure. (Interruptions). PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE Let 243. Motion Re: APRIL 2.4, 1985 Situation in Ahmedabad 244 him at least make an obituary reference to MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shall now the Press that was dead in Ahmedabad. He put the substitute motion moved by Prof. does not say even now; he does not feel about Madhu Dandavate to the vote of the House: it. (lnterruptions). [Translation] The question is : SHRT V. TULSIRAM (NagerkurnooJ): "This House having considered the Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, I am asking the statement made by the Minister of Home sam,e thing. The hon. Minister spoke so long Affairs'in the House on 23rd April, 1985 but he spoke only on the report of his regarding Ahmedabad situation, condemns Department and the police. the unprecedented violence and arson in Ahmedabad, atrocities by the Police and The whole press has been set on fire and their violence against the Press and total the pressmen and other people have been breakdown of the constitutional machi- beaten up and looted there. The Government nery in Gujarat State and recommends have failed to maintain law and order there. that the Union Government should imme- But he has no report about that. He is giving diately and effectively intervence to bring an evasive reply. The hon. Minister should normalcy in Ahmedabad." enlignten us in this regard. [English] The motion was put and negatived. SHRIMATI GEET A MUKHERJEE: I MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Mr. laipal would like to know ..• Reddy, are you pressing your substitute motion? MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please sit down. I cannot allow others. SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: Since the SHRI K. P. UNNIKRISHNAN : Be Home Minister consistently refused to chivalrous ! condemn the attack on the Press. I press it. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: You 16.00 hrs. may yield to the lady Member. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : I v.iII now MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : I cannot put the Substitute Motion No.2, moved by yield to you also. I will proceed further. Shri S. laipal Reddy, to the vote of the House. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: I would like to know ... The question is : MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : I request "This House, having considered the you to please sit down. You already spoke. statement made by the Minister of Home Nothing will go on record, whatever she Affairs in the House on 23rd April, 1985 speaks. regarding Ahmedabad situation, takes (lnterruptions)** note of the collapse of and defiance by law enforcing machinery in Gujarat and PROF. MADHU DANDA VAVE: I calls upon the Government of India to have .given a substitute motion. I believe I intervene to restore normalcy in the h~ve a right to reply. State." MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : No. There The motion was negatived. is.no right of reply. Qo you want to with- draw your substitute motion? MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Substi- tute Motion is negatived. Now we take up PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: The papers -laid qn the Table. HOme Minister has appealed to me that I should withdraw the substitute motion. But Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh. in the light of what Mr. Swell has said, I press my motion. ·,245 VAISAKHA 4; 1907 (SAKA) . Popers Laid on the Tobie 246 16.01 brs. when imported into India for rural water supply projects from the whole PEPERS LAID ON THE TABLE of the basic, auxiliary and additional Detailed Demands for Grants of tbe duties of customs leviable thereon. Ministry of Commerce and Supply under section 159 of the Customs Act, 1962. rPlaced in Library. See THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMEN- No. LT-765/15] TARY AFFAIRS (SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT): On behalf of Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh, (3) A copy of Notification No. GSR I beg to Jay on the Table a copy of the 365 (E) (Hindi and English versions) Detailed Demands for Grants (Hindi and published in Gazette of In dia dated English versions) of the Ministry of Commerce the 16th April, 1985 together with , and Supply for 1985-86.' [Placed in Library. an explanatory memorandum regar- See No. LT-761/851 ding exemption to Vanity bags from the whole of the duty of excise · Detailed Demands for Grants of tbe Ministry leviable thereon, issued under the . of Agriculture and Rural Development Central Excise Rules, 1944. [Placed THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMEN- in Library. See No. LT-765/85] · TARY AFFAIRS (SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT) : · On behalf of Shri Buta Singh, I beg to lay Union Public Service Commission on the Table a copy of the Detailed Demands (Exemption from Consultation) for Grants (Hindi and English versions) of (Amendment) Regulation, 1985 the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Deve- Detailed Demands for Grants of tbe De- lopment for 1985-86. [Placed in Library. partment of Personnel and Admin.strative See No. LT-762/85] Reforms. Statement sbowing rea'ions for delay in l~ying the Annual Report and Notification Under Finance Act, 1977 Audited Accounts of the Gandhi Darsban Notification Under Customs Act, 1962 Samiti, New Delhi Notification Under Central Excise Rules, 1944 THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE AFFAIRS (SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAO) : MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI JANAR- On behalf of Shri K.P. Singh Deo, I beg to OHAN POOJARY): I beg to Jay on the lay on the Table- Table: (l) A copy of the Union Public Service (1) A copy of Notification No. G S R Commission (Exemption from 366 (E) (Hindi and English versions) Consultation) (Amendment) Regula- published in Gazette of India dated tions, 1985 (Hindi and English the 17th April, 1985 together with versions) published in Notification an explanatory memorandum re- No. G S R 329 in Gazette of India garding exemption to delegates who dated the 6th April. 1985 under arti- attended the Extraordinary Ministe- cle 320(5) of the Constitution. [Plac- rial Meeting of Non-aligned Coordi- ed in Library. See No. LT-766/85] nating Bureau held in New Delhi from 18th to 21st April, 1985 from (2) A copy of the Detailed Demands for the payment of foreign travel tax, Grants (Hindi and English versions) under section 41 of the Finance of the Department of Personnel and Act, 1979. [Placed in Library. See Administrative Reforms for 1985-86. No. LT-763/851 [Placed in Library. See No. L'J'- 767/85J (2) A copy each of Notification Nos. (3) A statement (Hindi and Engljsh G S R 362 (E) and 363 (E) (Hindi versions) showing reasons for delay and English versions) published in in laying the* Annual Report and Gazette of India dated the 16th Audited A"ccounts of the Gandhi April, 1985 together with an expla- Darshan Samiti, r-..ew Delhi, for ·the natory memorandum regarding year 1983-84. [Placed iii Li~. exemption to drilling rigs and spares See No.TL-768/85] ·*the Annual Report and Audited Accounts were laid on the Table on the 30th January, 1985. De~ ne.... JQl G..... of the strong action against the Shoplc~ Mhilstry of Planning demanding more than the fixed prices. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN TIll! (ii) Need to extend Akbarpur.Tanda M;tNJSTJlY OF PARLIAMENTARY Railway Line and construct another AFFAIRS (SHRI GHt}LAM NAB I AZAD): platform with sheds at these Stations en behalf of Shri K.R. Narayanan, I beg to lay on the Table a copy of the Detailed SHRI RAM PYARE SUMAN: Mr. Demands for Grants (Hindi and English Chairman, Sir, transportation facilities are versions) of the Ministry of Planning for absolutely necessary for the development of 1985-86. [Placed in Library. See No. LT- an area. Besides, keeping in view the requirements of a particular area, it should 769/851 be linked with principal industrial cities and Central Reserve Police Force (Second towns. The railways play an important role Amendment) R.ules, 1985 in making the joruney of the people -comfort- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE able. Akbarpur junction on the Jammu- MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI- Howrah and Lucknow-Varanasi main lines is MAT! RAM DULARI SINHA): I beg to an important station. A thermal power lay on the Table a copy of the Central project of 440 MW capacity is under cons- Reserve Police Force (Second Amendment) truction in Tanda, which would consume one Rules, 1985 (Hindi and English versions) rake of coal daily. Apart from this, Tanda publisbed in Notification No. GSR 332 in is an important ir.dustrial centre for weavers. Gazette of India dated the 6th April, 1985 Cloth worth lakhs of rupees is exported to issued under section 18 of the Central Reserve foreign countries through Calcutta and police Force Act, 1949. [Placed in Library. Bombay. It is, therefore, necessary that See No. LT-770j85] Akbarpur-Tanda Railway Line be extended and additional platform with sheds, construc- ted at these stations. MATTERS U~DER RULE 377 Besides this, the facility of washing, [Translation] turning the locomotives and of proper shunt- (i) Need to print retail prices on all the ing should be provided at Akbarpur Railway varieties of doth on each metre Station. Thousands of bales are transported lSHRI ZAINUL BASHER in the Chair1 daily from Akbarpur and Malipur Railway Stations to Calcutta, Nagpur, Delhi and SHRI SHANTI DHARIW AL (Kota): Bombay. Therefore it is necessary to pro- Mr. Chairman, Sir, the cloth merchants vides a shed at these stations aaJ reservation charge prices of cloth arbitrarily throughout in all important trains is a must. the country and at times charge exorbitant In view of the fact that a large number of prices, taking advantage of the ignorance passengers go to Delhi, Bembay, Varanasi. of the customers about the varieties of cloth. Kanpur and Lucknow daily from Akbarpur ThUS, the customers have aften to pay more Railway Station. the Ganga-Yamuna train price for cloth. Sarees and readymade should run between Delhi and Varanasi garments are also being sold in the same way. daily through Faizabad and Akbarpur. Kashi The Shopkeepers indulge in heavy bargaining Express should also be routed via Akbarpur- as they often quote unreasonably high prices Faizabad and Allahabad. Besides, Kisan and at times they sell cloth even at half of Express ~hould be made a daily service and . the quoted prices. They quote high prkes should be routed via Akbarpur and Faizabad. only to extract more money from the custo- This will not only add to the revenues of the mers. The villagers who do not know much Government but would also provide relief to aoout tbe varieties of cloth are often fleeced the local people and the traders. So, Govern- by the unscrupulous shopkeepers. ment should make necessary arrangements I, therefore, urge upon the Government in this regard expeditiously keeping in view to print tbe prices of aU varieties of clotb on the interests of the people . . He1l metre of cloth so that the shopkeepers (iii) Need to extend the services of Vayudootj change only reasonable prices by ad.ding Indian Airlines to Purnea (Bihar) local taxes to the fixed price of the cloth. Legislation should be enacted providing SHRIMATI MADHURI SINGH: Mr. D~titlin4$ /or (jr(iJits 250 (Geherlll). /985-86 Chairman. Sir, in 1980 during tho tenure ot cOndition that it cannot be deVeloped due to the late Prime Minister, Shrimati Indira lack of space etc. Of course, the Govern- Gandhi, the then Civil Aviation Minister had ment has promised another airport, but if given an assurence to link Purnea with the the delay that is occurring in the completion thitd Air Service viz . . "Vayudoot" and an of the Calicut airport is an indication '&"then announcement to that effect had been made the promised airport at Cochin may not be by the Government. But that work has not ready for a very long time. been completed so far. Purnea is a border Therefore, I would request the Govern- area and the Nepal-bound passengers go ment to take the following steps immediately: through Purnea. ];>urnea has local importance as wt:ll. 1, therefore, urge upon the Civil 1. Declare Trivandrum as an international Aviation Minister to make the Vayudoot airport and undertake its development. Service a~ailable to Purnea and if it is not possible, the flights of Indian Airlines from 2. Complete the work on the Calicut airport Deilli to Assam or Calcutta should be provid- within the stipulated time. ed with stoppage at Purnea on a trial basis 3. Provide adequate funds immediately to initially so that the Purnea district could be start the work on the Cochin airport so developed economically and socially. Govern- as to complete it wittlin a shorter time ment had undertaken construction of an frame. Airport at huge cost in this Northern belt of the country in 1962 after the Indo-China war [Tralls/ation] from the security point of view. But that (v) Need to take out a tributary from Sone airpOrt has not been completed so far and it Irrigation Canal from GiJana to Pareb In is not being put to use. If it is put to Patna Distr:ct commercial use, its importance would greatly SHRI C. P. THAKUR: Me. Chairman, increase from the social as well as the security Sir, irrigation facilities for 30 to 40 villages point of view. fal1ing between Patna Protection Embankment and Sone river under Vikr:m Police Station [English] of Patna District are not available. If a (iv) Increasing volume of traffic from tributary is taken out from the Sone Irriga- Kerala to Gulf countries a nd need to tion Canal from Ghana to Pareb, people declare Trivandrum as an Interna- tional Airport and to complete the would be benefited thereby. The Central work on Calicut and Coc~\in Government should get this scheme cleared Airports from the Planning Commission without delay SHRI K. MOHANDAS (Mukunda- and instruct the Government of Bihar to puram) : There is an ever increasing volume implement the same. This would bring of traffic from Kerala to different countries prosperity to the poor people of that area. particularly the Gulf countries and vice versa. But the facilities available in Kerala at DEMANDS FOR GRANTS (GENERAL), present to meet the requirements of this 1985-86 growing traffic are very inadequate. A demand has been made for quite some time Ministry of Defence-contd. that the Trivandrum airport should be {English} declared as an international airport. The reason behind tbis demand was that only if MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, we shall take it is declared so, the facilities which arc up further discussion on the demands for required in an airport like this would be Grants under the .control of the Mil1istry of provided. But the Government has not Defence. conceded this demand. The runway needs SHRI E. A YY APU REDDY (Kurnool) : expansion to take in larger aircraft and other At the outset let me pay on behalf of my related facilities are required there to handle party our sincere tribute to the Indian Armed the growing volume of traffic. Forces consisting of three wings. for its ex- Then, the work on Calicut airport has cellent record or service to the natien. Let been delayed for long. This airport should me also pay our regard and appreciation for have been ready at· least a few years back. the Army for its strict observance of aloof- Similarly. the Cochin airport is in such a ness from political influences and its absolute .251 J)tmtlltcls lor Grants Dehttl1lds'liJr Graftts 252 (General), 1985-86 (General). 1985.86 detachment from polities. The Army also it must be kept so as anstrument protecting deserves praise for not allowing anyone of the democratic and secular functioning of ·the divisive forces based on religion. race, India. As I submitted, if the Home Ministry region, caste and community in any way to wants, it can forge another instrument which interfere or influence its dutiful functioning. can maintain law and order if the local Operation Blue Star, some critics expected, police faUs to do so. Call it BSF, call it would create a dent in the unity and oneness anything, but don't make it a part of the of the army. Fortunately, it did not do so. army. . This is my first submission so far as 1t is true that Operation Blue Star did affect the functioning of the army is concerned. the superficial tissue of the army in a minor Coming in the Budget, I must say that way. But by and large, the morale and unfortunately it is routine and dull. The discipline in the army has been quite high. Report submitted along with the Budget also Prompt action was taken and this small scar is monotonously routine and has been re- was immediately cured. We are happy to o peating what it has been repeating to this note that this unfortunate operation of the House year after year. In the Report there .army has not created any sort of disturbance is practically nothing. We have seen colour- in the high standards of the army's function- ful pictures therein. The Defence Ministry ing. But this Operation Blue Star has knows that the Members of the Lok Sabha certainly sounded a warning bell namely do not have the expert knowledge to under- about the undesirability of using the army stand the intricate questions of defence, but frequently for purposes of maintenance of still there is no important information given .law and order. We know that the army in this Report. We are, of course, informed enjoys universal popularity. In the opinion that the Army has attained self -sufficiency of the public, the army evokes feelings of in Army docks. We are also informed that patriotism. Army is common and its image a decorated helicopter named Chetak per- of universal popularity must never be im- formed elephant dance on the Rajpath on paired by frequently calling it to maintain the Republic day. We are very greateful to law and order and disCharge the policing the Defence Ministry for giving us such duties. It was mentioned in this House that valuable information, but we want to know the army was called to maintain law and about the type of weapons, we have pur- order for 175 times last year. This is abso- chased, the quantum of weapons we have lutely undesirable. Even yesterday there purchased, the countries from whom we have were headlines that Ahmedabad has been purchased, for what reasons we have pur- taken over by the army. This will not be in chased in the various dis- ever may be the position now, we know fully ciplines have confirmed that a nuclear war- well that we have to take a very critical and will certainly end in the dreaded nuclear' very serious decision on this aspect and it is winter which will destroy humanity and for the Defence Minister to say whether they human life and other life in the Northern- are going to foreclose the options and stick Hemisphere as well as in the Southern on to their original policy or they wi1l review Hemisphere. their options and keep them open for a Sir, President Reagan in his; address to future date. the U.N. General Assembly on the 2]st . As I submitted, our national security is September, 1984 said' : lSS Demands /or Grants APIUL 24. 1985 Demtllflh lor GNlIIts JS6 (Ge_ral),198$..86 (G~neral). 1985-86 . "We recognise that there is no sane shape policies of the State, to stop aDd alternative to negotiations on arms think, and prevent the . adoption of control and other issues between cur two decision that would push the W<;Jrld to nations which have the capacity to des- nuclear catastrophe." troy our civilisation as we know it. I ~lieve this is a view shared by :virtually Thus we find that in all international every country in the world and by the forums and in all public statements, the super Soviet Union. We need to find ways to powers and their allies have been declarins reduce and eventually to e1iminate the their commitment to peace, arms control and tbreat and use of force in solving inter- freezing of nuclear weapons. But in reality, as national disputes." disclosed by Mr. Martemsan, the Under- Secretary General of the U.N. at tbe Lenin- He committed himself to concrete practi- grade Conference on World Disarmament Cam. cal measure to enhance mutual confidence. paign, "the arms race is costing the world al- Earlier, in the U.N. Regional Conference for most 2 million dollars a minute. Furthermore, World Disarmament held at Leningard in in many countries, Government spend more June 1984, the spokesman of the U.S.A. for military pursuits than for education affired. "We firmly believe that Nuclear War and health care combined. World military can never be won and must never be fought." expenditure is estimated lo reach a trillion in 1985." In his address to Stockhom Conference on Confidence and Security Building measures It was also estimated that the increase in and Disarmament in Europe on 6th July, the yeas 1983 of the world military outlays 1984 the Secretary-General said: alone could have paid for giant strides against "In recent years. the sense of Secu- disease, extension of literacy and eradication rity from war has becom~ more fragile. of malnutrition and establishment of schoo's Fear has become ea::h day's companion, on a massive scale in the Third World. This prompting ever greater investment in variance between declared intentions of politi- weapons which are themc:;elves a major cal objectives on the one hand and the catalyst for fear." performance on the other gives credence to the criticism that the military industrial He said, "fear has become each day's juggernauts on both sides are impervious to companion, prompting ever greater imestment the deliberations of statements and strategies in w~pans which are themselves a major and that they are dictating the policies and not catalyst for fear". This is the most important vise versa. statement because this sumps up the position, Mitilary industrialists in the Western the ~obal security position today. countries have vested interest in the arms I would like to stress in this connection race. Mechiel Garbachove has recently my conviction that the defence policies indicated this contradiction of American should be developed and implemented in such stand as follows: a way to assure other p .. rties, including adversaries of no aggressive intent. There "Everybody has heard quite a lot about 'Star Wars' announced by the can be no mutual confidence ill Nations, in U.S.A. I would describe as fantastic the the presence of mutual insecurity. Mutual arguments used for militarisation for confidence cannot take firm root in the face outer space. They speak about defence, of growing arsenals of sophisticated weapons. but prepare for attack. They advet to There have been series of events on Dis- the space shield, bur are forging a srpace armament under the U.N. aegis, including an sword; they promise to liquidate nuclear o.d hoc committee on the Indian ocean in weapons, but in practice build UP these .AUsust. 1984. Milkhail Gorbachev in a arms and perfect them. They promise r~t ~tateQlent to Pravda has ~id : world st~biIity but in reality strive ~o undermine the military balance." "It is urgent and necessary to end the arms race. The development of the It is clear that the arms industries in the international situation bas reached a line, world, that is, in America, Western countries " h!n the question arises where further including China. want customers; they want call we go. Is it not time for those who clieqts. In fact, it is estimated tllat 1 in every 257 Dem ands for GI'ql/ls VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Demands lor Grants 258 (General), 1985.86 (General). 1985-86 7 persons in America is engaged,' directly or sent a fleet with 30 miHtary bases, 1500 indirectly, in the military industrial comp- warplanes, 80 warships and three atomic lexes. It is true that all the statesmen are for submarines in the Indian Ocean." peace; the overwhelming majority of people I expected that this Question would are for peace. But, as I submitted, it is tbese be answered. But, unfortunately, it was not vested interest, that are dictating the poli- answered because it was not reached. It is cies and not vice versa. already reported that Indian Ocean has The fear, as the U.N. Secretary-General now become strewn with nucJear submarineS. said, has become an everyday companion. Now the emphasis has to change from the 'f.her.e is vested interest in fear also because North to South. It cannot be guarded unless it is on account of fear that the Asian coun- we increase our naval force and strength. The tries are made to purchase sophisticated allocation to the Navy is only Rs. 600 crores weapons; the Gulf countries are made to part which is Rs. 100 croTeS" more than that. Let with their petro-dollars to purchase the us not forget the fact that all our Port towns latest machinery. The race in purchasing the are major industrial centres. They are all sophisticated weapons will not stop because located on the coastal line and it is essential from year to year there will be another that we must improve the naval force. Rs. latest. So, these countries will have to pur- 600 crores is not enough, we are in the pro- chase the latest weapons and forgo their cess of putting our indigenously manufac- petro-dollars of their foreign exchange so tured submarines into operation. that the military industries in all the Western (Interruptions) countries can be kept alive. This is the stark The second point is with regard to fact and we have to take note of it. In spite integrated approach. It is what is called air of all these things, it is very well known that .land warfare. Last year, there was a criticism these countries will not resort to any that we have not re-organised our three for- immediate clash. Of course, the latest posi- ces to meet this new situation on air land tion is that we are entering into the Star Wars warfare. Last year, the Defence Minister Mr. era. Venkataraman said that he had actually seen Now, coming to the Demands proper, the combined operations by the Army as the" position is that we are following what well as the Air Force. But still, the criticism was followed last year. It is the same amount is persisting that we have to re-organise to except that there is an increase of Rs. 511 meet this challenge. I may be permitted to crores or Rs. 600 crores over the last year. read a portion of what one critic has been As a matter of fact, this constitutes about saying and he has said very recently : 15 to 16 per ce!lt of the total allocation. It is "The depth of the battlefield has not that much. But, unfortunately, the expanded to an extent that would have freshness of outlook that is to suit the newest been unthinkable in the recent past. position has not been there. For instance, we Nothing underscores this more vividly know that Sino-Indian border has pul1ed than NATO's doctrine of "Airland down. The dispute between India and China Battle" in respect of both conventional is no longer acute. During the last 10 years, and nuclear warfare. Underlying this there has been pratically status quo but yet doctrine is the "deep strike" strategy we continue to guard our Himalayan borders aimed at exploiting the new advanced in the same way as we did in the past be- technologies to strike at adversary forces cause we will not forget our 1962 experience. hundreds of miles behind the front even It is admitted that the Indian Ocean has before they have moved. become very hot. To believe that it would be some As a matter of fact, there was a Starred time before this doctrine becomes Question today in the House. But, unfortuna- operative in South Asia would be to tely, it did not come up for being answered. live in a fool's paradise." The Question was by Shri R. M. Bhoye on U.S. military bases in Indian Ocean. It (Interruptions) reads: The re-organisation of three there forces "Whether on the pretext of to suit this new technique of three dimensio- safeguarding its interests, the USA bas nal warfare has to be effected. 259 Demands for Grants APRIL 24, 1985 Demands for G, ants 2(:0 (Genera!), 1985..86 (General). 1985-86 So far as the defence planning is concer- be shifted. The Report shows that these two ned. (Interruptions) we are sanctioning Rs. projects are going to be pushed through and 8200 crOTes. This Defence Budget costs the that they are going to be completed. It gives n~tion about Rs. one crore per hour. We us the impression that they are going to be have discussed what has happened in completed within the shortest possible time. Ahmedabad for hours together. I hope it will be done, and the Defence Ministry will stick to what is has stated in -MR. CHAIRMAN: Others also will the Report. take part in the discussion. (Interruptions) In the end, I would conclude by saying this. Fortunately, we have got Shri P. V. SHRI E. A YYAPU REDDY: Defence Narasimha Rao to lead this Ministry. He is a very important subject. T do not want to ably led the Foreign Affairs Ministry during make a speech. Let me mention points. Now the last five years, and with his intellectual the Defence planning is confined to the equipment and experience, we hope the Defence Ministry only. No experts are Defence Ministry will come forward with called for. Now the actual art of warfare absolutely new and fresh schemes next year. has completely changed. There are so many Defence and Foreign Affairs are very disciplines in science and technologies invol~ intimately inter-connected with each other. ved in warfare. The Defence Secretary is ultimately to be the President of this Defence [Trans/ati on] planning. A Defence Secretary can remain there for one, two or three years. He is SHRI MOHO. AYUB KHAN merely an lAS officer. Defence has become (Jhunjhunu) Mr. Chairman, Sir, the a . technical subject. Therefore, Defence strength and stability of an edifice depends on planning has to be on uptodate and modern its foundation but the foundation is not seen lines. (Interruptions) by anybody. Similarly, the common man does not know how our Motherland is defen- It is also essential to form a National ded. Our Armed Forces are always ready to Security Council embracing all these things. race the heaviest odds whether they are . With regard to modernisation of weapons, posted at the snow-covered peaks of the I must congratulate that we have recently Himalayas or the desert areas often visited brought into operation our new battle tank by dusts tones or the coastal areas devostated Arjun and we have also indigenised Arjun by cyclones or tidal waves, and they defend tank. the borders of aur Motherland with sincerity, loyalty and faithfulness. We are indeed proud PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: They of our Armed Forces. have shifted Shri Arjun Singh. Mr. Chairman, Sir, everyone has to die MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. one day. Cowards die many times before SHRI E. AYYAPU REDDY : The their deaths. The Valient never taste of performance of the ordnance factories is all death but once. Our Armed Forces defend right. . • our country at the cost of ~heir lives. Our Armed Force personnel are ever ready while MR CHAIRMAN : Please conclude. defending our Motherland to embrace even· death to frustrate the evil designs of the SHRI E. A YY APU REDDY: I am enemy. They pray to God to give them enough concluding. New- ordnance factories are pro- strength so that they may be able to fight the posed to be opened in Medak and Bolangir. enemy to the last drop of their blood. But there has been a rumour in Andhra Pradesh that the ordnance factory for which Although our Armed personnel face such foundation stone was laid by late Shrimati odds while defending our Motherland, yet the Indira Gandhi is not going to be there and salaries that they get are meagre, compare4 that it is going to be shifted. About Rs. 1200 to those of the civilians. crores are allocated to on-going projects. (InlerruptiollS) We do not want any rearrange- Since the British times, our Armed Forces ment or shifting. They have to stick to what have been placed in group 'D'. That was the has been stated in the Report. The Report time when we had horses in our Armed For- does not say that any part of it is saing to ces and our infantry used to have .very 261 Demands luT Grants VAISAKHA 4, 1901 (SAKA) /)~mands /0" Grant3 2~2 (Genera!), 1985-86 (General),1985-86 ordinary weapons. But now the times have with armaments of the latest designs, wireless changed. Now our Armed Forces use big equipment and laser system so that they tanks and sophisticated arms and ammuni- could give a befitting reply to the enemy in' tion and also maintain them. Still they have the battlefield. These tanks should be automa- been getting group 'D' salaries. I would tic and capable of making first round fire. If request Government to increase the salaries we make the first round fire and the same is of our jawans and officers in armed corps the missed then the enemy would fire back upon infantry, the Air Force and the Navy. us, to our great loss. Our officers of the rank of Lt. Colonel get We impart training in this respect for about Rs. 2000 t:> Rs. 2500 whereas the sala- which we need training aid simulator. We ries of the civilians range between Rs. 2500 have only one simulator in our armed' corps and Rs. 3000. Civilians perform eight-hour at Ahmednagar Training Centre which im- duty 'while the military personnel remain on parts special training to save our tanks. I duty all the 24 hours. Civilians enjoy one would request Government to have at last 10 hour lunch-break out of their eight-hour such simulators for DNM and ten for duty and also go for tea a number of times, Gunnery in our armed corps. This will help but in the army no such rest can be availed us save on ammunition as also our tanks of. They ha~e all the love for our Mother- and enable us to provide training to a good land and are ready to sacrifice their lives in number of people. I would recommend to defence of the Motherland. They have no the hon. Defence Minister to pay due atten- famny life. Their life is meant for the service tion to this matter. of the nation. In spite of that, no attention The uniforms provided to the crew of the has been paid to increase their salaries and tanks and to other army personnel are not other facilities. I would recommend to fireproof and may catch fire when a person Government to pay due heed to this matter. is on duty at the tank. They should be pro- In the battefield, our forces have to face vided with anti-fireproof Dangris so tbat in anti-tank mines and anti-personnel mines. case of fire in the tank, the Jives of our crew They know the sacrifice involved in passing working on the tank may be saved. Dangri througQ them. They stand face to face with is a very crdinaJY thing which we can pro- the tanks of the enemy and when they are duce in our country. Now our force have ordered to advance they do so, unmindful been modernised. They should be provided of the consequences. They do not shirk their with the latest weapons. The personnel in duties. In 1965, we had seen how our armed the infantry should be provided with all the forces had destroyed Pakistani tanks. The facilities that are provided to the Armed Government had decorated me with 'Veer Forces. They should be provided with Chakra' in recognition of my services in the • compo-ration" as they have to remain with- Army during the Indo-Pak war in 1965. out food and water for days together. They These awards reminded us of the sallantry take part in the exercises and the operations. of our soldiers. So, they should be provided with sufficient ration. Previously. they used to get "compo- The Armed Forces of our country had rar; on" but now it has been stopped. That won 12 'Victoria Crosses' in the First World "compo-ration" should have medicines and War and several 'Victoria Crosses' in the food which may be sufficient for use for 72 Second World War as well. In the 1965 and hours. If an atom bomb were to be used dur- 1971 Wars they got 'Paramveer Chakra,' ing a war, our tank contingent is the only 'Mahaveer Chakra' and 'Veer Chakra'. But contingent which can meet that situation it is regrettable that after retirement our and defend our borders at that time. The servicemen are appointed as Chowkidars by Arjun tank which we are going to manu- the Banjas. It is indeed very shameful for us. facture would have provision for the use of I would recommend to .Government that some atomic energy. separate pension should sanctioned which In our country 50 to 60 thousand people should not in any case be less than Rs. 1000, get pension and they go from pillar to post for these awardces in recognition of their in search of jobs. When they serve the nation meritorious services. with sincerity and faithfulness. they deserve I have on~ more suggestion to make. The some consideration. As such, their retirement tanks in our Armed Forces should be fitted age should be increased to 58 years and they ~ bamallds Jor arlJllt, Demand, Jor Grants ii4 . (General), 1985-86 1(Generaf),1985..86 should ,et their full salaries up to 58 years. personnel who in the last financial year have 1bc Army personnel should after retirement sacrificed their lives for the national unity and be appointed on security duty in Goverrunent security, oftices. Sir, we are discussing the defence budget The salaries of our officers are very low. at a crucial time. We see threats to our Their salaries should at least be doubled. country's security from all sides. I don't say There was a time when a Britisher used to be that it is the maximum as of today. but appointed as officer while we Indians used threat to our security is there. to be appointed as Jawans in the Army, The Government should provide free ration for Significantly during the last few years our aU and not to certain categories of Army nation has achieved a reputation in the world pca'SOnnel only. by its leadership in NAM and hosting of Tbere is no difference between· high and CHOGM conference in Delhi. This has given low now. Officers and jawans hoth feel the irritation to some of the supper powers. It is because our country has emerged as a force winter equally. Tberafore, they all should get to reckon with. The officials speecbes of some tile same hill station allowance. If our jawans are provided with ration and hill station of the Government officials of BangIa Desb. Pakistan and Shri Lanka clearly show their allowance at par with that for the officer~, intentions. Outwardly they have spoken that would help foster unity among our arm- something. But internally what is going on in ed personnel. those countries is a matter of concern to our The gratuity, pension, etc. of the Army Government today. personnel should be worked out before their retirement. At present they have to wait for I am happy that Government has stepped as long as six months for their gratuity. up the Defence Budget. We should consider pension etc. The Government should pay the induction of arms in neighbouring due attention to this matter. It should also countries. Similar techniques were adopted be ensured that they get their pension in other countries, particularly, in the iddle regularly. Our Army personnel defend our ast countries and the south-east Asian Motherland at the risk of their lives. For countries. In all these countries, arms have example, if the former Prime Minister Smt. been inducted. These are the same type of arms Indira Gandhi, had one of us as her guards which are being given to our neighbours, which then we would have saved her by could be used against us at the time of facing on our chests the bullets requirement. There are arms like the Missiles, that killed her. A military man has such F-16s, etc. They are given to countries like sentiments and feelings for his Motherland Taiwan with the intention that they can be that he feels that the slightest God shaH not transferred to neighbours at any time where forgive him if he shows slackness in his duty they can use them without any training. US even for a moment. A soldier is aware of nuclear weapon supply to Pakistan is a fact. tlle fact that God sees all his actions and It has come out publicly so many times. This therefore we should not be derelict our duty matter has also been pointed out in one of towards him. A soldier is ready to sacrifice those discussions when some other country's even his life for the sake of his country. He representatives visited Pakistan. A5 per the feels that he will get salvation only by perfor- Symington law, any country, which h~ ming his duties diligently. nuclear capability, is not to be given any military and economic aid. "A senator in Khudi ko kaT buland itna keh haT takdeer se pehie, America bas moved a Motion in the Senate Klcuda bande se khud pooche bala which clearly says that any country which has teri raza kya hai. got a nuclear capability is bound" not to have lE.. lish) military and economic support from USA. I remember that Presiden t Carter imposed this SHRI RAJESH PILOT (Dausa): Mr. law during his time that any country having Sir, I heard the very sensitive Chairman, nuclear capability will not have military and speech given by my coU~lue. economic aid from the United States. But First of aU, I share the feeling which when Reagon become President of the United Col. Mushran expressed yesterday in his States, he waived it off especially in the case speecb that we pay our tribute to those of Pakistan. 265 b~m:l'Ids /01' i:;ronts VAISAK.BA 4,1907 (SAKA) hemands ior Grants 266 (General), J 985-86 (General), 1985.86 It is a fact that China is also giving give priority and get t hem cleared. design technique help to Pakistan for nuclear weapons. This ha<; also appeared in the Regarding air-transportation fleet, we did newspapers of the United States of America. talk about it in the last Budget also that we This subject has also been admitted for a are replacing the old aircraft. Some of them discussion in the Senate. Under such circum- have been replaced by AN-32 but some of stances and under such prevailing conditions the aircraft, especially the Packards are still all around us, we have given a budget of flying. I wish the Defence Minister takes a flight in a Packed at a high attitude level Rs. 8,200 crores, fiying and I think that he will certainly feel 17.00 brs. like replacing them as soon as possible. It is a very old aircraft and frankly speak- [SHRI SOMNA,TH RATH in the Chair1 ing, if we are given to move today, if we I will not go in details about the move one Division of our Army from East allotments. But 15 per cent out of the total to West, I doubt wirh Our present capabili- budget is allotted for· modernisation of our ties, whether we can move one Division of arms. With just 15 per cent allotment. how Army within the required time. So, that air can we modernise our army, when we want transport fleet has to be taken care of. We to face those countries or when we want to have to replace these aircraft with better prepare ourselves against those countries? If ones. somebody were to ask as to how many F-16s Sir, it is only after the 1971 war, that Pakistan will have, I think nobody, even the Navy came into the picture. Before that. President of Pakistan can give a reply, Navy was a forc~, which was just a force, but because the availability to him is more than after the war, we did think of m~demising his requirements. So, I feel that the percen- our Navy and I am happy that this time a tage of modernisation must be stepped up, reasonable amount has been earmarked for because this is too meagre a percentage for naval equipment and for mod~;-:1isation of our services. the system. As a soldier if you ask me, whether we SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH: The are prepared to face any challenge, I would allocation is reduced. say, Yes, we are prepared. But as a Member of Parliament, I personally .feel that we are SHRI RAJESH PILOT: No. allocation still not in a position to face a challenge or is increased. It is Rs. 934 crores according a threat from our neighbours. Seeing our to my figures. preparations or seeing their capabilities, we are still not a match to them. THE MINI TER OF DEFENCE AND PLANNING (SHRI P. V. NARASIMHA Sir, Army has been modernised. My RAO) : Yes. That is right. colleague has mentioned about tanks. Wea- ponary has been modernised. Still we are SHRI RAJESH PILOT: 1t is good that reading in newspa pers regarding armed heIi- Navy is being taken care of. We still require copters with gun fortress or fitted with empty to pay some more attention to Navy's moder- tank missiles, which I think, is still a food nisation. My point of suggestion to the for thought as it has yet come through and Defence Minister is that there are a lot of . still pending. problems in getting the systems cleared. We think of buying an aircraft today, which is As for the air-defence preparations are very suitable to Oilr system, which is very concerned, we are stiI) Jagging behind with suitable to our requirements. But by the regard to low level techniques or low level time it materialises it becomes obsolete. We deteetion. I had been insisting upon this have got to simplify the system, so that the point every time. The systems available with required item which has been recommended us are much inferior to our neighbouring is bought at the right time. We think today countries. Every time we discuss it, we hear that the aircraft is very good and suits our that proposals are in the pipeline. But requirements, but by the time it gets through nothing is given on that subject, specially on from all the channels. it becomes, I would low level quick reaction missiles and low say not obsolete, but a late equipment. level radar detection system. These are a few important things to which Government must So, I would request the Defence Minister ~67 Demands jor Grants bema"ds ior Grants 263 (General), 1985.86 (General), 1985-86 to evolve some formula, whereby those or the communications are Dot of the highest projects which are proposed by the Services order. . to the Government get through at the right time, and according to the right procedures. These are as far as the Services moderni- In respect of both these projects, last time zation techniques are concerned. Now I have a few suggestions regarding the welfare when we discussed the Budget. a promise was made by the then Defence Minister-i·e. in of serving personnel.and ex-servicemen. I had mentioned that earlier, and I am repeating it the matter of low level missiles and the radar now : 20 years back, if you get up on a systems. He said them: "We are conside- Sunday morning and see the matrimonial ring them, and soon they will be taken care columns in newspapers - I remember that we of." But this has not been done. were bachelors and we used to read them in The main reason why I pointed out this 1967-68 the advertisements would inside system, which I bad mentioned in my last particulars of a girl given by the parents. In speech also, is that arms are being purchased the end they used to write: "Service officers from different countries. I had suggested preferred." or "Service personnel preferred". last time that Government must negotiate To~day, if you read the matrimonial columns, directly with those people. What is happening you will see that they say : "Service officers to-day is that we purchase arms through need not apply." arms agents, or arms-dealing agencies. And it is very clear that if you buy a certain SHRI P. V. NARASIMHA RAO = Is it amount of arms, there is a fixed percentage so ? which is given to those people. So, when SHRI RAJESH PILOT : I am stating you sell!ct arm'>, there are people who lobby the fact. I am not hiding anything from' for that p:1rticular arms, and people who are the House. I must total things very frankly, not for it. These lobbies delay our procedure I c~n give the cuttings, where it is clearly a lot; and because financial procedure is written, "Service officers noted. not apply." involved in it, sometimes intentionally or I do not blame them. The conditions have unintentionally decisio.ns are delayed. I had deteriorated a bit. There is no doubt about su.ggested that if Government bought arms it. I do not blame the father of the parti- directly fro:n the concerned countries, it cular girl, the family or the parents. Condi- would be good. Whatever be the commission, tions have deteriorated a bit. I do not blame you still do not write off that commission. entirely the Government, and say that it has You ·keep th:lt comm!ssion. You put that not done anything, Government has done commissian into a diff.;rent Fund. You call a lot. But due to circumstances, .. it a D..:f~n:::e S::rvic~s Fund or D::fcnce (lllterruplioll) So, I say that we have to do th~ Welf'lre Fumi or Waf Widows Fund, something for them, S:J that further deteriora- and you put that money into that Fund. tion is stopped. If you see the entries during Thus you can help the Services in the matter the last 2 or 3 occasions, and study how of their welfare, and also help the nation to many people used to apply earlier for buy the correct arms without any intervention service Commissions, you will see that their by wrong agencies. number has since come down, Last time that they had agreed that they I remember the occasion when the late would certainly consider this proposal. So, Pandit Nehru took the salute at a Passing. I would request the hon. Minister to take Out Parade in N. D. A. He said then = up this proposal once again with the Govern- "The cream of this nation is passing through ment, and if it is feasible, we must get on with the gates to-day." Has that cream after this. 15 or 16 or 20 years of service really become About communications, we have read the unemployed? Sufficient attention and care Report. We have progressed a lot. They have Dot been given to this aspect. So, we make use of satellites and computers for had suggested a few steps, and Government surveillance, passing on informalion and for was kind enough to appoint a high level de-coding messages. This has to be stepped committee in respect of ex-Servicemen. We up. Our. communications are still slightly have gone from State to State, district to hg,;::.g behind in the Services, especially in district to hear the problems of the people hilly areas, were channels are not available; and recommended to the government. So. 269 Demands lor Grants V AISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) Demands for Grants ::iO (Genera/),1985-86 (General), 1985-86 I will not go into details of each problem better way then the retired person. because c=verything is compiled in that sman Report. So, I would request the Defence Regarding medical facilities given to the Ministry to clear that Report and let it be retired people, I think they are supposed to laid on the Table of the House so that the have these facilities as their right. What Parliament can pass it and we can implement we can do is that at the district hospital- it bee ause the backlog of roughly 30 years because MH you cannot open everywhere: is there; it will take us at least two or three you cannot have military hospitals in each years to get it in rotation. Or if the govern- district-if a fewwords for the ex-servicemen ment is going to take more time then the could be fixed in consultation with the implementation can be stl'lrted in stages; some Defence Ministry and State Governments, portion can be started this year; some portion. that will be a great boon to those people can be started as ,per the financial resources because they have to corne from 200 to 300 of the government. miles to get themselves checked up in the military hospitals. . Now onwards. whatever little you give to the services - I would not compel you You are planniug to have a seperate to give more -whatever re~ources are there security force for the airport-national and which the government is capable of giving international airports. If you give it to the in the form of concessions and facilities to ex-service people, totally recruit them, can the ex-servicemen, please monitor fhem at also be a boon for them: the district level because you give them on I had requested about handicaps and paper; you pass everything in the South the war widows. Frankly speaking govern- Block; but it does not reach block head- ment today cannot say how many war widows quarter or tehsil headquarter. There is use we have in this country who are not setteled. of giving that concession. Till monitoring We have asked this question from the system prevail's for them, they would not be Ministry. No State Government is main- benefit from it. taining any record of war widows who have There are directions by you; there are been helped or who have not been helped. policy letters given by the Central Govern- At least war widows, who really deserve ment. When they reach the State Govern- sympathy from each citzien of this country; ments, they become a baby of nobody; and from each government, irrespective of any they do not bother about implementing them. party, are also not settled still; their cases You have to find a solution for it where at are pending. Government must take care least service people, defence people are there. of them. It is binding on the State Government to follow the instructions of the Central A cadre review has been done. I perso- Government. Some method hes to be found nally feel that sometimes this cadre review out. Otherwise, now, we have one report; diluting of command responsibility does corne after another 15 years, if the procedure is up. What I feel is that something should be not really taken care, again there wil be watched by the Ministry. When a person is problems of the same nature. fit for promotion-I have gone for the welfare of the personnel-and there is no At the moment, we have at the District vacaney existing, I feel he should be given a Sailors-Soliders Board a retired ~ervice highar scale. Then he is satisfied that he officer. Now he is retired he is not interes- is fit but as there is' no vacancy he is given a ted. He goes there at 10 A. M. He gets higher scale and financially he is not a loser. taken money as pay. you put a serving If MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude. officer at that Board incharge to look after the interest of the retired people or retired SHRI RAJESH PILOT: Only last two ex-servicemen. he would have some control points. One is corruption is recruitment. over it. Now, a retired officer is sitting Teere is lot of corruption in the recruitment. there. He comes it 12 P. M. If somebody In the Air Force they tried out a system and goes there, he is not available. But if you rooted out corruption. In the Army also put the serving officer as incharge of the corruption is there in the field or recruitment. system in the district headquarter, half of The &_ystem tried out by the Air Force, which the problem will be over. Then he will be is a simple system that involves a ~:il~;r}lc able to get in touch with the authority in a procedure, may be adopted by the other ~71 Demlmt/s for Grants APRIL 24. 1985 Demands for Grants 271 (Genera!), 1985-86 (Genera!). 1985-86 Services also. 1 would request that the (Howrah) : I rise to support the Demands of other Services can also foHow the system. the Ministry of Defence. First of all, I like There is no denial that the system tried out to pay my tribute to the Jawans and officers in the Air Force had worked. Last time. I who laid down their lives in the defence of caught the concerned people and the case the sovereignty of this great land as well as was registered. So if that Procedure tried for national unity in the recent past. out by the Air Force is adopted by Army Similarly. I like to pay my tributes and and Navy also, corruption in recruitment can I like to salute them for the successful Indo- be eliminated. Soviet Mission of Sayuz T -11 which was Speaking about reservation, whatever launched on the 3rd April, 1084. with reservation we have for Scheduleu Castes and Squadron Leader Rakesh Sharma and Wing Scheduled Tribes, just as the vacancy meant Commandor Ravish Malhotra. It has for them is not filled by SC/ST candidate created a new vision for all of us and for and it is carried forward, so also whatever the young scientists of the world concessions are extended in the public sector also. From this successful mission our next and public undertaking for the ex-servicemen generation will learn more and we can also shouJd be kept for them to absorb them. do further research in Space also. Such vacancies should be carried forward and In the earlier days, we faced serious the ex-servicemen should not be deprived of challenges, in 1984 in Kashmir, in 1962 on them. The last point is regarding accommo- the Chinese border, in 1965 in the Western dation. When an ex-servicemen gets into front and again in 1971 in the Western front. a Government job after retirement from his ON all the occasions the Indian Army and service in the Forces his service is not the collective command of Indian Air Force, counted for accommodation. There are Indian Navy and Indian Army proved to be many. people.... ** ... who have worked in worthy of the nation for showing their the Forces, who had worked for 20 years in unflinching loyalty to the Mother, to the the Army, Air Force or Navy but when they Nation and to the people of this co~ntry. join civil service that portion of the service The pride of the country is that we have is not counted. This is an injustice to them; not only institutional democracy but we because they retire from the Services after a should also admit today in the House that long service, at the age of 48 or 49 and they the successful implementation of the demo- have grown up children also. If you do cratic programmes and preservation of the not give them priorities in other things, at democratic methods of this country was only least their past service in the Forces must be possible because of the contribution of the considered for purposes of accommodation. Army in the country who never bothered for .. One more point is about petrol subsidy. politics but only for their loyalty to the We had· requested the Government last Mother and to the Nation. It will continue time-a proposal was given to them-that 50 to gain much more strength in future. Most Htres of petrol should he given to ex-service- of the developing countries also should pre- men just as serving personnel are given the serve this tradition. Therefore, I once again same at a subsidised rate. It will help the pay my tribute and salute the Jawans and ex-servicemen a lot. Already the Govern- the officers and the coJIective command of ment is given free ration and free accommo- the Indian Army in this country f<;>r helping dation also, I am told. I only ask for us to proceed' further for the democratic this petrol subsidy. I will not ask for more institutions to be preserved an~ the demo- perks as my colleague has done but I would cratic movement to run. like them to be given in kind only. Because when you give them Rs. 200 or so. about I would highlight a few aspects in the Rs. 150 is taken away as income-tax. I Budget. I am sorry to motion that it has therefore want these things to be given in kind become a practice for the last few years to only. That will boost up their morale also. treat our Navy and Air Force absolutely on a different pedastal from that of the Army. MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Priya Ranjan When J look at the map, as a .. tudent of Das Munsi. geography I find that India is the only SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS MUNSI country in the world whose four borders are -~--.-.---____;------** Not recorded. 273 Demands for Grants VAISAKHA 4, 1907 ($AKA) Demands for GY'lInt. 274 (Genera!), 1985-86 • (GenertJ/), 1985-86 cordoned with positive threats to the inte- that the Naval Budget should be increased grity and sovereignty of the country. Let in future. If you do not do it, there will us see in the west. We have seen from be a reasonable apprehension in tbe minds of 1948 how the American weapon and artillery a large number of people in the country and· titled the strength of Pakistan Army in order also the littoral states, who are friendly witb to pose a threat to the sovereignty of India. us and this will aggravate. . . In the north, there is the Chinese border. In Ute south there is the vast Indian Ocean and Very little has been provided to tbe y ou know better the machinations of the Research aI)d Development Section. You United States imperial forces in Diego have provided only less than 2 per cent of Garcia. In the east we felt that we were in the budgetary provision for this. With such peace. We afways want to be friendly with a meagre amount, you cannot go in fol' BangIa Desh 8.nd that the people of BangIa research. If you go to France, West Desh and India shall remain together for years Germany, U. K. and U. S. you will fi~ to come. But the fact remains that the that their rasearch innovat~ps are giying Chittagong Port is now in the desk of the much more strength to the A;my, Air Force United States and China for their joint and the Navy, considering the strategic clandestine operations in the Bay of Bengal. balance of the other nations whereas in India the provision for research is Jess then 2 per cent. Excepts paying off the· salaries and On the eastern front also we cannot keep meeting other establishment expenses of the quiet. So, the recent happenings in Shri Headquarters, I do not know what additional Lanka. the positive threat of the United work they can do in research wing. There- States in the Indian Ocean specially in Diego fore, I request the hon. Minister to increase Garcia and the machinations of the Chinese- the budget for the Research and develop. US axis in Chittagong Port give us every ment wing of the Defence Ministry in reason to believe that the Indian Navy must future. be more strengthened than in the Pllst. In the present situation I am not satisfied with I will now deal with a subject only the budgetary provisions for the Navy. Of concerning Nee. While I was a student in course, modern war is fought by the Army schools and college. I was very much attracted on the land. But the strategic war is faught by the army people. In those days it was a in all possibl~ manners by the Air Force and compUlsory training in· NNe. I . remember th~ Navy. The Navy and the Air Force in I was a student of second year in the college India are not that much srrong enough in when China invaded India in 1962. From the budgetary provisions as they should have Pahalgam, Jawaharlal Nehru gave a clarion b=en. Affer seeing the happenings in Shri call to the people to unite, and the Minister Lanka and overtures of tbe United States of Defence gave a call to tbe studens to alld the United Kingdom towards Sri Lanka, unite and to strengthen the second line of I am of the opinion that we should have defence, and the training was made compul- provided more resources for the Navy in this sory. those days there were two kinds of . Budget. Why I say it is because we have training, one was called Annual Trainill8 not sufficient coastal guards in it. For the Camp where the students used to learn a last two months, at least on nine occasions, little bit two arms and ammunitions and Sri Lankan Naval patrol killed our fisher- other skills. and the second was known as men and we could not protect any of our the Social Training Camp where the students fisherman. We lack in modem gun boat used to build roads and support dams and and modern patrol ships. In spite of that, do other civil works and take part in other We all talk of making the Indian Ocean as a defence activities, I do not know how z()ne of peace. At the same time, we cannot suddenly a training called NSS came up an4 keep quiet. In the Bandung Conference, Pandit diluted the Whole concept of Nec in thi$ lawaharlal Nehru also preached world peace. country. If you look at the last ten yQrs., He also preached peace with China. Even since wBeI1' the compulsory training of Nee after preaching peace with China, you kn ow was abolished you will find that the charactU: how we were repaid by them in 1962. I only of the college and university students .w.,. wish that tbe same tbing may not be repeated deteriorated. The st~nts are rustive. The)J in the Indian Ocean by the machinations of do not feel involved in the nation-building \,JS and UK. For tbat I once asain wist task. ThOle WIR the days wben a ca4et uq. 2" Demands for Grants APRIL 14. \985 Demands for· GrSllls. 11. (General),1985..86 (General). 1985-86· to feel proud of being a student of a college was that those who passed Certificate 'C" because it was because of his being a college examination, used to tell their parents that student that he was taken in NCC. He used they were goining to join the army . to feel proud in saying that he is going for because they Certificate 'c' holders were this' camp and that camp. More so, there standing good chances in the . army. used to be examinations frequently. Certifi- The other day I raised a question and· cate 'A' was given in the school, then Certi- the reply I got was that only 10-12 boys were ficate. 'B' . was given in the college and takan out of some 300 and 400 'C' certificate Certificate 'C' was also given in the college. holders. I request you to give reasonable' After passing Certificate 'C' examination. one chances to the 'C' certificate holders for used to feel proud that he had learnt some- direct recruitment as Senior Commissioned thing to defend his country. I do say so Officers in the army. Then you will not have ': because I myself have done it. I have com- to recruit the boys by advertising in the' pleted all these trainings and feel how the newspapers, you will get the right type of ideology of NCC imbibed among the youth persons from the universities and colleges.· WaS building up the character of comradeship, The officers who train the cadets are good devotion to the nation and patriotic spirit. I people and they know the whole art. am sorry to say that this is no more there. We just see a few contingents in . the Repub- Another thing I would like to highlight lic Day parade, collected from various parts is that along with the college teachers who of the country. Nowadays, the training are imparting training in Nee, some regular. concept has diluted to that stage. We feel .. army personnel should also be associated to . we are scouting only and nothing more than .guide them effectively and properly. It has that. Therefore, once again I would insist been my sad experience during the university that Nee training should be made compul- days that those professors and teachers who sory. Look at any part of the world, even were giving training. used to find it conve- in United States. Younger generation do nient to disappear from the ground and to feel proud to be associated with· some kinds attend to more coaching classes. of activities of the army and air force and So, they were to rely only on the Ja wans, navy in their youthful days, they feel invol- Havaldars and Subedar-Majors. Therefore, ved in defending the country. That feeling I would request appointment of regular Army is 'lost now. Therefore, while the. Education personnel in every university to coordinate Minister will formulate the national policy on that actiVity. edueation, I would request the hon .. Defence Minister to see that Nee is kept as a regular With great sympathy I would like to say Syllabus in the schools, colleges and univer- a few more words for the Jawans. If you sities, and those who successfully pass the want to see in whole of India how a flower ' NCC examinations, should be given grace after getting blossomed is just destroyed and marks in all other examinations so that there burnt, here is an example when the Jawan is charm and attraction in NCC training. retires and goes back to the home. It is . Students can exchange a lot in the NCC pathetic, Nobody can explain the plight of campS. I tell you that when we used to their sufferings when they go back to tbe attend the annual camps, we used to home. They enter the Army at the age of meet the Naga boys there. we! used 16 or 17 and contribute their full vigour and to meet the boys from Gujarat, we youth to the service, of the country. And used to meet the boys from distant parts of when they go back at the age of 40 or 41. ' the country. We came to know each other they feel isolated, When we enter our career and felt that we were one. Therefore, I of the service, they go bank home and hover ' suggest that natioual integration camps of the about on the streets. This is pathetic. I. cadets should be organised in Punjab in the quote a poem which reminds me of their present situation. Such camps are permissible sufferings : under Nee. Let the cadets from the various parts of the country go to those camps and "Good Bye'· mix with the cadets of Punjab and feel that The olive green leaves they are all one in the nation. These are the teachings of Nee which we are missing Dig enemies grave l1OWa1Jays. The prid, of NCC tbQse ~~, At tbct (lawn of tbeir sprin~ ben, ~'1Jslo~ (ironts VAISAKHA ~4, 1901 (SAKA) DemandS/Of Grants ~7t (General), 1985w86 (General), 1985.86 . . They enter the field an annual ritual serving . no meaningftii purpose so far as discussion on the nation~s They and sail and fly march security is concerned. I - repeat that and Under the blue sky, support what my hon. friend from Telugu, When the flower is blossomed in air Desam bas said. We think that we are in a They retire leeving the gun behind democracy. So, if we are in a democracy and foltow a democratic model which has been They retreat bugle cry set before us by the Western democracies, MID DAY SUN BID "Good Bye". particularly the Westminster model. . So, I would request the Hen. Minister to In the Westminster model there is a stan- censider this aspect and at least increase their ding committee On Defence as well as in' age of retirement. While we, politicans, can other Ministries, which can discuss in detail rule even at the age of 90 years and even try all the defence requirements of the country, to become Prime Minister and the President the threats faced by the country, what kinds of India can also be of that age, why the of armaments they require and should manu- lawan of the nation cannot be in the Army facture. And similarly, in USA and other upto 58 years of age? I do not subscribe to - democracies this is discussed, So, we should this policy. If there is such a policy, change also have such a standing committee. This is that policy and make a new policy in regard a demand which the MPsfrom the opposition to this. What is wrong with it. You are just have been making year after year, but the contributing to their frustration and nothing Government on one pretext or other have else. refused to accede to it. , Last year the answer of the Defence In regard to the ex-Servicemen's children, Minister was that since the Parliament does I would suggest you to open more Army not make a rule to that effect: where is the Medical Colleges, more Army Engineering power of the Defence Minister to provide for Colleges exclusively for them in every district a Standing Committee ? I say, it is just the and provide them educational ~aci1ities. Wit~ reverse. If the Defence Minister wants, he the quota that has been fixed for their can got such 0 rule passed by Parliament an4 children it is very difficult for them to get constitute a' Standing Committee which shoul4 entry through normal education channel~. go through all the requirements of Defence Even the number of Kendriya Vidyalayas IS and o~ly then we can have a really infor- ~ery less. In Bengal, there are many instances mative debate on Defence. At the moment, where hardly any ex-Servicemen's child can neither the people of India nor the represen- set a chance. tatives of the people are aIlowed to know what exactly are the threats facing the Lastly the Brigade Parade Ground of country and how we are supposed to tackle Calcutta is in the command of the Army. the threats. This is a very curious situation That is a major and important ground. Our because our democratic pretensions stop here. 'Panditji delivered speeches there. Mrs. Indira We have a colonial style military adminis- 'Gandhi made her historic declarations on tration and that style remains in spite ef Bank Nationalisation and also her support 37 years of our Iddependence. Last year I and solidarity with the struggle of Bangladesh said it and it bears repetition because it was people from that ground.. I would re~uest not replied to by the Defence Minis er, that the hon. Minister to rename the . Bngade I wanted to go and see a talk repair establish- Parade Ground of Calcutta as Indira Maidan. ment near Delhi and I explained to him ~at That is the ground wherefrom main declara- I wanted to sec it because I heard of tho JiQlls were given. abuses of facilities by offi~rs there. Instead .: " - With these words -I once again pay my of repair of tanks something eJse is going oJ? ,tribute to the Army and I conclude. there. He could not gjve me the permission to ~ .. ' visit that factory. I mentioned this in my '~', SHRI AMAL DATTA (Diamond ~peech. but he couJd not reply as. to why per,: Harbour) : . My hon. friend from Telll8u miSSion could not be afforded to M.Ps. This Desam has already anticipated me to a is the situation in the case of most Defence .certain extent. Last year when I initiated the establishments -M.Ps. even cannot see them, ~4ebate, I said the Defenee debate has become certainly not the ordinary people. At leaSt m Demtmds/o, Grallts AMUt. 2A. 1985 bemanJs /0' Graftts • (Gehertll).1985.;B6 (General). 1985..86 tbese of us who are supposed to speak here always having a glare of publicity. Whatever f&Ild pass. the Defence' budgets should have arms Pakistan is acquiring, either by purchase lOIlle opportunity of seeing what bas been or as gift from the U.S.A.. certainly we clone with the money which bas been granted should be concerned about tbem because by Parliament. We !;lre not even accorded Pakistan is not alone . in the game. It is an ~t facility.• We know this country has been outpost 01 U.S. imperialism and therefore suffeiin& from ad hocism so far as Defence whenever Pakistan acquirs arm we should planning is concerned. Although there is take due note of that. But what is the something called the Defence Planning capability of the arm which is being given to Committee Since 1984 but this Defence PlaIi Pakistan or Pakistan is being allowed to is Rally a compilation of the demands made purchase in spite of the Symington Clause. by individual Branches of differont Services In spite of that, clause they are overlookinc and not an if\t~rated. plan which' is made the fact that Pakistan has now possiblr by aU the Services people work.~ng together. acquired the nuclear capability. They ... ..,. plan has to be made not by the Service letting it buy those U.S. arms which od14II people making their requirements bot after countries are not allowed. At ldast. ladil .. nalysis' of what is the security eBviron- would not be allowed. -.at of the country and what is the totality Now, we are following this ad hoc policy. ef the threat perception, and that is to be I am told that the glare of publicity given iBtegrated with the requirements and then is when Pakistan is getting F-16s or Tanks or the capability has to be planned. There is TOW missiles or Hawkeye or battTe field DO such mechanism in the Defence Depart- surveilance aircraft. All these attract glare ment, We have always .demaQded, every year of publicity. It immediately occurs to me one M.P. or another demanded, that such an that we are going to buy something more. institution should b! set up, an institution This publicity is very much motivated. The which not only comprises of Service people publicity is a means to panic the Indian and bureaucrats, but also academicians and people for buying something else, whether scientists. People from outside the Govern- this is arranged by the Government or by the ment should also be involved in it and they interested people in the Government or should together analyse the current security people outside, i.e. the people belonging to environment-internal and external-of the various arms lobbies, I do not know. But country-internal is also very important as it is for the Government to tell us. If tbeFe things have developed after the Blue Star is such a body which I have suggested, that operation and all that and then, after that, body will be able to know what is the capa- threat perception is properly analysed and the bility of the arm which Pakistan is acquiring. capabilities of the countries marked as F-16 is no more than a name. SimHariy, 'enemies' have been perceived, oaly then can XM Tank is no more than a name. What we define our requirements and then seek to actual capability Pakistan is acquiring aad achieve that capability. Without that, what how we should all plan and counter that we are doing is really ad hocism. would be examined by this body. Our arms We are following a policy that for acquisition policies have" always been not example, Pakistan buys 40 F -16s, we should only reactive but some what futile. as Mr. buy 40 Mirages or something like that. This Pilot says. I support him on the question of is called reactive policy-we are reacting to acquiring the Jaguar planes. We first thought what our enemy is snpposed to be doing. of acquiring Jaguars in 1971 or 1972. FroD;l Tbree times we have gone to wage a war with that time onwards, we started negotiating, Pakistan and tbat is the only country, we thinking, negotiating and dithering. Ultima.- 1IBnk, which is our primary enemy. We can- tely, we signed the agreement, I think. in ft()t follow what China is doing although our 1978 and we started getting them from 1980 friends have been saying about Chinese or 1981. This is a plane of the early 70, _rea!. We do not have any idea of Chines which we started getting in 80s. By that timt. capability, but even if we' know, we cannot it become obsolete. Now. it is a low-ftyina thiBtt of even matching their capability. 'We deep penetration aircraft. Now what is tbl! 'are told that they are' baving 5000 Jet planes. role of the deep penetration aircraft in toda;~ warefare? In today's warefare, electronics . SQ, we are not thinking in those terms. has developed to such an extent Jleliding. ~moetition with Pakistan. we are that this low flying plane is no VAISAKHA 4,·1907 (SAKA) Demands lor Granls 28i (Genera/),198S-86 IeIIeer somctbinc which can avoid detection. Mr. Priya Ranjan Das Munsi comes from 1'_re are ndars available which can now the National Cadet Corps.. So, they are mucb ..eet the low flyiog aircrafts. The radars more knowledgeable in the subject than whicb ane lookinc tow.ards the ~ight at which me. I will not speak much about it except tJac low ftyina aircraft flies can detect the how we have tried to improve the service aircraft. In any case, I am told that sothe conditions of members of the Services when -auipmeDts are available even with the they have . been stagnating in the Services, ill(antty men by which they can d~t and leading to demoralisation of the officers. But shoot -clown the planes. It is because they instead of having another Pay Commission can track them down and shoot them with and getting their recommendations, what was just m.ilsiAes which foHow the aircrafts. done was a cadre review. That is not enough Pr.,babJy we did not think ahead. We did The cadre review has not solved any problem. _t "ave any perception as to where the What is happening is that instead of stagnat- 'IfOdd is going to move in the 80s. We ing at the position of Major in the Army, aeqtlitwl the plane of 70s. It is really obso- the officers will stagnate one stage higher-up. lete. eacI Mr. Pilot is very right here and I They will stagnate anyhow.. The small ..pport hila. We have got Mirage. Some increase which is required to be ma'lk has to have o.n de1n.red to us. Our pilots are be made through a proper procedure like tieing traittcd. But tile in4uction of Mirage havihg another Pay Commission. That should iIRo OUt' Air Force aircrafts will taKe another have been done and, if necessary, a separate tktee years or so. I do not know what is the Pay Commission for- the Services Could have ..,ability of F-16, whether the Mirage will taken care of the problem. ltea'ble t~ m:ltch F-16 or not. I do not know «YCn tile Mig planes which we are manufac- The quality of officers has deteriorated. NriaI here or which we are planning to That has to be admitted. The man is more marmfacture here can match it. What is to imp::>rtant than the machine, Whatever ..,ability? Will they match with tho! F-16s? Pakistan is acquiring. even if we have slightly With som~ u..,gradation, Som~ chang.!s etc., inferior arms, we will be able to . counter itt the Mig plat'les. can they possibly match that by having better quality offi.;ers. It was 11-16s? I am told that the Chinese, when tru: at one time. It may not be true today *e,- were frienpJy with the Russians, got the because we have not taken care of the Mig-t1 or Mig-19 an enrlier version. recruitment of the Services as we should have done. Moreover, today the battle. They weot on manufacturing and upgrad- whether it is on land or air or sea, is no ing it. Now they have a fleet .of 5000 aircraft longer a battle of muscle to muscle. It is not wrich are sufficiently upgraded to be able to only a question of bravery on the field. It is defend their country. They are not afraid. a question of technical ability. We should give p1"oper attention to the engineering and We are acquiring something form out- technical service which we have not done. side but we are not able to upgrade that. We We have stopped the promotions and techni- had the best planes in the '50s and 60s' and cal people at a certain Jevel. They can go those planes were aU right. We were assembI- only thus far and not beyond. They cannot the planes and to some extent, also mak- ms go to the topmost rung. I am not saying that ing their parts here. But we have not able they can supersede and become Chiefs of to upgrade them. There is something wrong. Staff or something like that. But they should The people are always saying that you put have an equal position in ranks as the field more money into Rand D. My question is : people. What Rand D we have been abJe to achieve ? Air Force is a very important wing of the Services. There have been, unfortunately, All die members before me from the rul- a number of accidents. There has been a ing party so far have spoken about the committee appointed to inquire into the Services. As MPs we certainly are very much accidents. The LafantaDce committee was '~. With. the salaty and the service appointed in August, 1982 to inquire iDto ~~OtlS Of the members of the Services, the accidents which took place from April, :!be ~tlJitrtleilt policy, the ex-servicemen's 1977 to August, 1982. There were 213 ct:Inditions, etc. But the members who have accidents. During the four months which the . spo~etl before me come from the Army and committee took to make their recommenda- , 283 Demands/or Grants ~1o" a/tillts st (Genera/),1985-86 (General). 198$-86 . tions, there were 49 more accidents. On an accountability. We have been 'dtvelopment _analysis of these accidents, the Committee certain items of armaments for }ong·timc and ,found that 41 per cent of accidents were due we have reached nowhere. For, instance, we to human error. 137 accidents, to be exact, have been manufacturing main battle'tank ill _were due to human error. It cau!';ed destruc- the CVRDE for a number of years: We have tion of 20 fighters, 15 trainer aircrafts, 5 always been told we are on the threshold ' of ,helicopters and 3 transport planes. The making a breakthrough in this tank. It was human error was ascribed to indiscipline in said the year before last. In 1983, the the Air which was due to inadequate flying Defence Mintster in his reply said that be- ,ski]) and knoWledge of the pilots. fore December, 1983 the tank wiltt be develo- ped and it was developed by importing the Contrary to the eulogies usually showered engine which we could not develop. The on the Services, the rate of accidents of the defenee specification was to develop an engine Indian Air Force is one of the highest of all having 1500 h. p. Instead of that; 'we 'made the major Air Forces in the world. It an engine which could only develop 400 b, p; happens to be 3.8 per 10,000 flying hours for as a result of which we bad to' import a fighter aircrafts. German engine and we made a prototype 'of tbat. Not only that. ,We publicly gave ari This human error can be eliminated by award to this institution, CVRDE for proper training and proper education of the developing this prototype. which' was then pilots and also by proper maintenance. called 'Chetak' and which is now' called The other factor is the engineering know- 'Arjun'. Because the horse power could not ledge and skill of the technicians. The pilots be developed, the name of horse was perhapS and the planes both are valuable and we dropped. Because the gun is· being' manufac-'" cannot afford to lose any. tured here and Arjuna was a good marksman, perhaps the name 'Arjun' has been giv~'. The Ordinance Factories have been put It is a good idea for the Defence Minister ~nder a Board which was constituted in 1980. to have renamed this main battle tank. This (Interruptions) has given us a lot of trouble. Ultimateiy These Ordnance Factories have possibly what we have to do is this will go on record no in house Rand D arrangements. As and the Defence Ministry· will be able to a result of which what has happened is rather check four years later.. . (lnterruptions) pathetic. We have been making Shaktiman AN HON. MEMBER: 'Chetak"is the trucks but we are still importing the engine name of helicopter. blocks of these. SHRI AMAL DATTA: I remember In spite of our repeated calls for that was the earlier name it came at least i~ indigenisation from this House, the Defence papers. It may not have come in the Defence Minister has been repeatedly saying that they Minister's who only speaks once a year. -have been going in for indigenisation. They nave been saying this for the last 2S years We have ultimately got to manufacture, >but they have not been able to make the so far as MBT is concerned, the engine, .the 'engine blocks of Shaktiman trucks. gear box, the suspension and the gun oont{'ol. I request the Defence Minister to look We have a 'night vision' also, I ,am told into this problem. It has not been receiving In the television on 19th and 20th this was the attention of successive Defence Ministers. given pupJicity that we are devel~ping a '~~k with night vision, which can fight dur.ing ,day . - We should not depend on any other and night, arid that it is being manufactured ~ountty for this basic requirment. 95% of the in Debra Dun with imported parts. This is _production the Defence Production Depart- the self-reliance in Defence .. ment are results of collaboration or they are 'made either with imported technology or ,Then I come· to . _th~ LCA~~t ,with pad$ which are imported either in tbe Combat Aircraft. T~is is an idea which.- We form of components or assemblies. had been toy;;ng with foc a long time~ . 'for The reason for this is that in the Defence more than ten years. Ultimately Govern- production as well as in the Ordnance Fac- ment sanctioned the expenditure in 1983, if tory and in Defence Rand D, there is no I am not correct. Please correct me later. if 2J$, Demands/or Grants VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAKA) Discussion re : Progress 0/ 286~ (Genera/). 1985-86· Indian Women in SOCial, Educational, Political and Economic Fields in the International Women's Decade I am wrong. I think, it was only Rs. 600 here-and says that he has no degree or crQres. But this amount of Rs. 600 crores is diploma from the Imperial College of Science tbe' initial value of the project cost. Total and Technology, London, that there was no estimated value today being Rs. 1500 crores such student on their rolls. But he is still A peculiar thing has happened. This LCA kept associated with HAL. In HAL's latest was under development in HAL first and telephone directory his name is there to sbow they ~ould not get anywhere because of the that he is in tl,at project; he sits in HAL, he fact that the d~sign engineer there, rather the has his office there. I am also laying a copy Managing Director of the Desing Depart- on the Table of the House. So, it was not ment, was found to be a person who was not correct to deny that he is not associated with a person h~ claimed himself to be in the this project. Look at the way people are sense that he was a person who did not going about and shopping around in the· bave the Degree which he claimed to have. world trying to buy an engine from here, and This has all come out in the Rajya Sabha 18.00 hrs. question-answer.. Of course, Mr. Rao has said that he has the Degree that he claiTtls to a radar from here and avionics from there have. But I have with me a copy of th'e and then combine them. This will never go Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.·s list of officers through. Ultimately what wilJ happen ? We wbee the Degrees are given. One of the will get a collaboration. Already we have qualifiacation claimed is Diploma from spent Rs. 2 crores for getting the feasibility Imperial College of Science and Technology, report from abroad and we shall end up by LOndon, in aeronautics and there is also copy buying this like we end up by buying every- of a letter with me-I will lay it on the thing else during the last few years. This has Table of the House-which says that there to be stopped. There must be self-reliance was no such person by that name. I am not in our defence. Rand D is not only a ques- naming him now because I have not given tion of money. It is a question of recruiting notice. But by that nime, they say, there the right people and getting rid of the coterie was no such preson. Therefore, this was a which to-day rules the Rand D. You must fraud and because of that there has been no get rid of the coterie. Otherwise this country development. And the person who could is in for trouble. We cannot go on spending develop and who worked under him has been crores of rupees in importing know-how. suppressed all along. An advanced Jet trainer Foreign exchange is precious. Therefore, \JOe aircraft ha.s been designed and its documenta- must build up our capability through proper tions submitted to Government in July, 1984. Rand D. This trainer aircraft is what our capability will allow us to manufacture. I am laying a 18.01 hrs. pbotostat of the model on the Table of the House. But, since it will overshadow the DISCUSSION RE: PROGRESS OF INDIAN LCA, it has not been allowed to be manu- WOMEN IN SOCIAL, EDUCATIONAL. factured. On the other band, this person-I POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC a~ not naming bim-this fraudulent person, FIELDS IN THE INTERNA- is being kept associated. A new agency has TIONAL WOMEN'S DECADE been created called the Aeronautical Develop- ment Agency registered as an autonomous [English] society. It is that Society which will now MR. CHAIRMAN: Now we take up oversee the entire project; whatever the HAL the discussion under Rule 193. and other combinations which come into it Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee. do will all be supervised by this Agency. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE· . The Defence Minister has stated in the (Panskura) : First of all I thank the House' Rajya Sabha that there is no such person for co-operating with the women in getting associated with ADA. It is not correct. The this motion in to-day's agenda. I hope that Defence Minister will kindly make an inqury. tbose non-women members who are bere I· am laying this on the Table of the House present now in the House would support and wlli~~ show the person's name-it is marked 8iv~ us UlQfe ~nc;:ou~ement i~ Q\Il' ~tru$8le( . 287 Discussion re : Progress APRIL 24, 1985 and EctJn SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: are carrying on in public life like candidatea Then there should be a monitoring machinery comming to be legislatures and becoming also for monitoring the position with regard Ministers; but in order to fight imperialism to education. In respect of employment, also, in order to fight social evils in our there should be a machinery for ensuring country. It was because of that tremendous women's access to development resources dynamism that he introduced into our social through ear-marked funds within the allo- life in our country that we are in a position cations in different fields like agriculture. today to think of measures which would rural development, industry, science, technical promote the advancement of women in all oducation ete. There are also certain other spheres of life including media. points. But I particularly raise one, viz. My hon. friend, Shrimati Geeta Mukher- relaxation the age limit for women for of jee has made constructive suggestions at the recruitment in government services, by raising end of her speech that there should be the age for women. About laws I a commission like SC and ST Commission, believe it is necessary to have a review of Miniorities Commission; there should be a laws; wherever bias is there against women, commission for promoting and monitoring those laws should be reviewed. For'that a the welfare measures that are taken by the working group in the Ministry should be set government from time to time. Anotbei uP.· suggestion that she has made is to empower About media: I feel that really a very the Minister in charge of social welfare to serious examination of the media question is ensure that all the concerned Ministries in to be taken up so that the women's equality the Government should carry out their dutie~ from all points of view should be taken up. towards women in the manrier in which It is very good to call the Minister of government decides upon and also Parlia- Social Welfare as the Minister for Women's ment in their wisdom. We are all in favour Welfare as well. But unless our Minister of of doing our utmost to promote the welfare Women's welfare is given really the powers of women. to monit'lr over other Ministries which deal Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee will bear with women's questions, it will only be a witness to the fact that like herself so many name. Like the S.C. and S.T. Welfare of our own women menmers in this House. Committee of Parliament, I propose and including our friend Shrimati MohsiiJa very much insist that a Committee of Kidwai, our Minister for Social and Women's Parliament for examining the programmes Welfare Smt. M. Chandra Sekhar. of women's welfare be formed. With these Shrimati Krishna Sahi, Miss. Dandavate. words, I think that the whole House will Vidya and so many other Members also ori help us, the women in going forward. the Congress side had done immense amount of work during the last five years in the PROF. N. G. RANGA (Guntur) : 1 Parliament and they were responsible for have chosen to rise at this stage not to come getting very useful legislation on the statute in the way of my sisters who would like to book, to mention only the dowry legislation speak on this subject, but to demonstrate that we have enacted recently. how our Congress Party is indeed as serious as our hon. friend Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee We all agree with her that when it comes has been in order to promote the interest of to enforcement of this legislation we have women. not been so very suffessful. This is nothina special with regard to women alone. In IeIal'd We have had the honour of having a to our various social matters our performance Women as our Prime Minister, as the leader has not been as enthusiastic, as dynamic as of ()ur party for 15 years and more, a unique Parliament would like it to be. Therefore, I achievement in the whole world, because in appeal to the Members of our bureauciacy none of the other democratic countries were and very soon we would be having more a:dil they able to have such a distinction. Secondly, more women also in the bureaucracy anCi it was Mahatma Gandhi who gave a filip to with the help and cooperation of these the awakening of our women espxiaIJy in women who wiU be joining our bureaucracy. public life and helping them to come into we appeal to them and I appeal to them. to pablic life, not only in the way in which Vie do their best to give satisfaction to Member. itS bfH,;,.ioll,tI: Itrojrei'l iind Economic Field, in 296 o/lnditm WOlllen tn Socla/. the International Educational, Political Women's Dtlcade Qf '}ta.rliament as a whole and to the Govern- ( in order to be able to achive so much more ment also in enforcing this legislation and progress than we have been able to achieve ensuring that all the protection that we have and we are projecting to achieve. We have decided to provide for them would really be got to enlighten our people. Such a discussion afforded to our women. such debates in Parliament and State Legisla- tures would be extremely useful. Therefore, On this occasion I would be failing in I wish to express on behalf of my party as my duty as a Member of Parliament and well as myself our sense of gratitutde twards also as a veteran Member of the Congress Mrs. Geeta Mukherjee and her colleagues, Party, if I fail to mention the cantribution the women MPs in Parliament. I take pride made-the enormous contribution made-to in the fact that there are in our Parliament the women's movement in our country by so many women MPs. Excepting England the late Shrimati Sarojini Naidu. We claim I do not think there is any other country in her as an Andhra because she married an the world where women have been accorded Andhra; they claim her in Bengal and all a higher place through the general elections social welfare bodies claim her also as one than in India. So, I am not a pessimist. In of their own order. She was a multi-faceted the name of my leader I consider her my lea- personality. she gave us so much of encoura- der even today though she is with her God. gement in our national movement, she Indiraji, it is a great pleasure for this Parlia- became one of our great national leaders. ment to express the nation's urge, nation's More than anything else she was a genuine wish, nation's faith in the progress of our foHower of Mahatma Gandhi and looked women, in their rapid progress and ever after him when he was· in jail, when he greater strides in the future as well as the needed hdp and . he lost his health and present. needed encouragement. She looked after him personally especial1y as I said during the [Translation] period when Lord Linlithgow got him in jail in such a cruel' manner, without any SHRIMATI KRISHNA SARI acceSs to or association with his colleagues (Begusarai) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, today in the Congress Working Committee. From when we are discussing in the House the those days onwards in the women's movement subject of the progress and development of has been making great strides. women towards the close of the International Women's Decade my heart is full of joy as My hon. friend Geeta has now enlighte- well as sorrow. 1 am happy because tod~.y ned us by giving the statistics to show how we are discussing this important subjeet in inferior is the status that has been so far Parliament and I am sad because we are accorded to women, when compared to feeling the absence of our late Prime Minister, women in various spheres' of life. All this Shrimati Indira Gandhi. The void created is true. But we have made, as she has said by her demise can never be filled. in several speeches tremendous lot of progress. There were times even in my own childhood The year 1975 was observed as the when people used to think that it was not Women's Year and it proved to be a mile- necessary for women to be educated at all, be stone the development and progress of women. literate. Indeed we had a great social The primary aim of that was to draw the 'revolutionary, Veeresalingam. He had to attention of society towards the backwardness light the prejudice of our people that if of women and various other problems pertain- women came to be educated they would be ing to women and also to compel the Central failing in Streedharma. Government and the State Governments to enact strong measures and to formulate . From that stage onwards right up to various schemes to end the exploitation of now, we have reached the stage when a wife women. This would enable them to understand can haul her own husband up before the themselves and their capacities better and cOurt of law for inflicting cruelty upon his would generate self-confidence in them so .wife. it· is a great progress India has made that they are abe to contribute to national especially after achieving freedom. True we reconstruction and development. Various must go further and more quickly and we schemes have been formulated and imple- bould make greater provision in our Budget mented at both the national and international Dl.tefIUioli re : Prop•• , VAISAK"A 4, t~7 (SAKA) and Economic Fieids in o/lndlan Women I,. Soelal, the International Educational, Political Women's Decade levels for women where in priority has been all this, I have to draw the attention of the liven to their education. health and employ- House to the fact that though women were ment. Many national and international so powerful in the past in the Manusmritt symposia, seminars and conferences were women were relegated to the position of held in our country and discussions were second grade citizens and they have been men- held in this House also on this subject. In tioned as dependent on men and hence the need this context a national commi ttee was set for their security had been felt. This was so up under the chairmanship of the late Prime because that was the need of the hour. But. Minister Smt. Indira Gandhi, in 1974. This that system wherein women remained depen- committee's functions were broad based and dent upon men had continued down the it had its wings at the State as well as district centuries and it continues even now as an levels and even women at the village level evil practice in society. Now, these evils have participated in its activities. Thus, public become a course because their roots were consciousness was aroused, public opinion very deep in the society. During the 19th and was created and so much enthusiasm was 20th centuries although great philosophers, generated that a comprehensive national politicians and authors have .made great Scheme was prepared for the progress and efforts to end these evils, yet the results are development of wamen. Thus, new opportuni- pot forthcoming in proper measure. (want ties were provided to women and schemes to cite an example in this connection. A were initiated for destitute women. A chapter judge in Calcutta has observed: on the development of women was added to the Sixth Plan for the first time. Condensed [EngUs,'z] courses were introduced for adult women. "One cannot keep a car of society Is this not a sign of progress? Shrimati Geeta in the neutral gear and pr~33 the accelera- Mukherjee has just now said th~t there is tor of bgislation. Howev~r, the impor- no politics in the issue under discusssion at tance of legislation in giving proper direc- present. but whatever she said smacked of tion for securing the necessary changes politics. India is a democracy and I am in social attitudes and L)r controlling proud of my country, ann the entire excesses cannot be underestimated." womanhood of the country was proud of the [Frans!alioll] fact that under the leadership of the late Shrimati Gandhi, our nation has risen on The importance of law cannot be denied the international horizon and has become the but we can awaken the womenfolk only centre of attraction for other countries as through the propagation of social laws. We far as women are concerned. Similarly, right can also bring about a new awakening in from 1966, when Shrimati Gandhi became our country. Under the leadership of the Prime Minister, women have progressed Shrimati Gandhi, Parliament has passed in all walks of life constantly. I do not many an important law a'Jd amended many want to say that we have achieved much. important Acts during the Women's Decade. But, at least something has happened which To cite a few, one is the Equal Remunera- has made India the envy of other countries. tion Act, 1976. Shrimati Geetaji knows that If we. look at India's past, women have this law was passed in 1976. The second is always been held in high esteam. The wor- the Child Marriage Restraint Amendment ship of Goddess Mother has been in vogue Act, 1978. Although it was passed by Parlia- from the earliest times. In our ancient scrip- ment during the Janata regime, it had been tures there are references to the special introduced only a year when our party was rep.rd and Status of women would also have in power. Then, there is the Criminal Law read about the MahuJevis. They are Amendment Act, 1983 and the Criminal Law Lakshmi Saraswati and Durga. Respect, regard (Second Amendment) Act, 1983 and the and devotion' has been shown towards them Dowry Prohibition Act, 1961, as amended at aU times and everywhere. According to in 1964 and. lastly, the Family Courts Act, the PUl'all8S, Goddess Sara~wati is considered ! 984. I do not want to say much about to be the. source and essence of all these laws as it would take much time of the knowledge and sciences. Lakshmi is consi- House but everyone is aware that all these dered . 'to be instrumental in removing all laws were passed for the emancipation of h~rdles and obstacles. Similarly, Durga is women and to ensure their all-round deve- worshipped as incarnation of power. Despite lopment. History will record this fact that 299 biscusslon;e.~ ProgresS . ~ EciJ1loml c F;eiJs In. 3.M of Indian Women in Social I,... International Educational, Political ' Women', Decade ~ver before had Parliament done what was ~re about 1.5 Jakh women in different jailS done under the leadership of the late III 1981. I want the hon. Minister to tell us Shrimati Indira Gandhi~ whether most of the women amoog .fbcm were undertrial prisoners or whether tbey It appears that despite all efforts at were put behind the bars because of their governmental and non-governmental levels questionable character. If they are not cri- for the social and economic upliftment of minals, why are they being treated as women the results have been far from satis- criminals? This is an atrocity on them. We factory, be~ause in Mexico when the UNO have got conclusive evidence of such cases. session was in progress, a statement was made I want that the problems faced by the women on behalf of India whereiu it was stated: in our society should be solved. They sbould {English} be given a place of honour in society and "Women are more hungry than this cann;)t be abhieved by merely enacting men. Unemployment is higher. In the legislations. For that, we would have to rural sector, educationally. socially and ensure proper implementation of aU such economicalJy, women are more laws. For this, the Government would have backward." to put curbs on the administration, becatise·· whatever Govrnment do for the betterment 1Translation] of women for provding them with all oppor- Therefore, it is true that despite having done tunities, the benefits tbeteof do not reach so much, our progress has been significant. them and that is why the condition of women in the rural areas is not sound. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker : Sir, I want camps should be organised to acquaint them to add that nobody knows whether thou3ands with the legal provisions and this movement of widow:> and d~stilute wom~n Ii ving in should b~ t",ken up as put of a campagn Kashi would g~t salvation or not, but at for arousing public consciousness. ThiS: present they are living a hellish life. All the should be d03e in each and every village in women's homes in our country b.Jth in the our conntry. It is of pJ.ra'TIount importance public and th~ private se-ctors -for women that efforts be made to change the social refugees and destitutes are the c~ntres of and economic environm~nt as far as women their exploitation by the organisers and fun- are concerned and the Process of Social ctionaries of those ho;nes. I would like the Chang.;!' should be given the top most priority. hon. Minister to p:lY attention towards this In aH such efforts, education is of topmost and take steps to curb the undesirable acti- importan::;c because it is only education vities in these hi):n~s. I would also like to which i~ of the root of all revolutionary add that there ar,;: thO:HlOds of destitute changes. Wi),n'!n who re;nain confin.;:j to their homes ani are b~in~ tr.!3.ted like animals. We Only with qualitative changes in the should do something for them also. Some educational system can we make women women becom;! old even before enjoying the come forward and ensure their aU-round youth; they are subj ~;;ted to rape, persecution development. But, as far as education is and other evils. Th;!ir condition is deteriorat- concerned, it alrounds in contradictions. On ing and it appears that the more the atten- the one hand, according to the Reports of the tion we pay towards them, the worse becomes Ministry of Social Welfare from 1975 to their plight. Ws read about atrocities on 1985, illiteracy among women has increased such women everyday in the newspapers. during the W omen's Decade. What I am In the 8th report of the National Commis- saying is based on the report of the Ministry. sion on Police which was presented to Parlia- On the other hand. the number of girls ad- ~nt in 1983, much coo:ern was expressed mitted in schools for primary and secondary because the number of women offenders had education has significantly increased. My risen by 75.4 per cent from 1971 to 1977. information is based on the mid-term review According to this report, there were more of the Sixth Fivr Year Plan, 1980-85. Evtn. ,cases of atrocities on women as compared to then the number of girl students' is' far teSs ,crimes committed by women. than that of boys. A major factor is regiorW imbalance also. Nine States that is Andtira According to a survey conducted by tl-)e Pradesh, Assam, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh Social Welfare Department in villages, there Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Orissa, W~ 501 Discussion re : P""gress VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) and Economic Fields in 302 of Indian Women in Social, the International Educational, Political Women's Decade Bengal~ etc., are significantly backward in will the time of the House he extended to the .progress of education. Progress has been accomodate all lady Membets ? registered in the matter of higher education. Therefore, I would like to reiterate that only [English] if we forge ahead with qualitative changes MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hope you in education, can we move forward in all understand me. Your other colleagues also other spheres. would like to speak. To conclude. I want to submit that [Translation] dgring the Non-Aligned meet held recently, wherein many women leaders of the develop- SHRIMATI VIDYAWATI CHATUR- ing countries took part, our Prime Minister, VEOI (Khajuraho) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, while inaugurating the Sir. the discussion initiated by the hon. lady Conference, had said that the role of women Member is welcome. There is no doubt that in the development of any society was very much work remains to be done for the vital but still women in this world remained upliftment of women because women have deprived of vital facilities. He has put for- been ignored for centuries and have, there- ward very concrete suggestions for their fore, remained backward. However much planned development and for raising we may do for them would be inadequate their status in society. I welcome and would be like a few drops ill the bracket- the announcement of our Prime Minister But, at the same time it is not correct to say make education upto High School free that after independence, Government have for women. This would encourage women not done anything for raising their status. to go in for education. It is a matter of great • pleasure that, during his Prime Ministership, As the hon. Member Sbrimati Sabi has women are anxious to enter politics and stated, we feel avoid whenevar we look at their number has gone up. Therefore, I want the seat which used to be occupied by our to say with all emphasis that the voice of late Prime Minister, Shrimati Indira Gandhi women during the Women's Decade has who used to be with us and was a source of become very powerful, loud and effective inspiration for all of us. She belonged not and I hope that under the leadership of only to this country. but to the entire world Shri Rajiv Gandhi our society will definitely and we feel her loss very badly. When she develop. was amongst us, every women felt proud but today her absence is very much felt. I share (English] the sentiments expressed by Shrimati Sahi MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Before but at the same time I congratulate our calling the next speaker, I want to request Prime Minister for creating a separate hon. Members to be very brief. Don't Department for Womens Welfare apart from think I am obstructing their freedom of the Department of Social Welfare. This speach on women since you are talking on clearly shows that our Government are going the topic of women. But because of the to pay special attention towards the welfare time factor, I have to say like that. There- and progress of women. fore, I request all other Members to speak In our scriptures, Manu has said to the point and conclude their speech within five minutes. There are many Members to Yatra naaryastu p~;yonle, speak. If I give more time to each Member Ramante latra Devta. in the beginning. I cannot give the same time to others later on. In that context I may Yatraslu na pujyante, be obstructing other Members. Tatra Sarva/alkriya. I now request Shrimati Vidyawati The place where women are worshipped Chaturvedi to speak. and honoured is the abode of Gods and at [Trans/ation) the place where women are subjected to contempt everything comes to naught. SHRIMATI VIDYAWATI CHATUR- VEDI : Sir, I have been given only five Women were equal partners with men in Jijin.yt~s '~nd sin~e th~re Are man~ ~peakers! Qur §tru~le for independ~nce ~nc;l tile), 303 Discussion Fe: Progress APRIL 24, 1985 and Economic Firlds In 304 of Indian Women in Social, the International Educalional, political Women's Decade (augbt in all the spheres, whether it be frequently harassed. Who will look into all prohibition, offering dharna or goillg to jails. this'1 Although women have made sreat The 'Quit India' moment launched by progress and we see some ladies in Parlia- Mahatma Gandhi saw women in the fore- ment also, the plight of our common women- front everywhere. folk is really pitiable and needs to be improved. Although women have less opportunities in the field of education today, yet in all, I would like to submit that in the field the spberes, be it education health. politics, of education, only lady teacherS sh.ould be or social welfare they have discharged their appointed from primary to middle school responsibilities with the utmost sincerity and level instead of male teachers. Similarly. in have set examples for others. They have done offices for the posts of typists and similar remarkably well as engineers, collectors and other posts women should be given the social workers. Despite all that it is a matter highest preference. of regret to see the plight of women today. Instead of tbeir status as motber, they have Recently, the ladies. of Non-Aligned been reduced to mere show-pieces. Nations held an important conference in our country and it is a matter of pride for us that In the films, scenes of rape are depicted, the foundation of aU these programmes was In posters seminude women are shown. laid by the late Prime Minister Shrimati It is a disgrace to her status as mother. Our Indira Gandhi. It was her guidance and society enjoy such depiction. Today, in all influence which have prompted the women sorts' of advertisements the depiction of of Non-Aligned countries and the entire women is a must and it is taken undue world to raise their voice in support of peace _dvantage of. It is not only a matter of great and disarmament to save posterity. sorrow but a matter of shame for us. I would request tbe hon. Minister to pay As regards jobs for women, teaching attention towards this and see that her status work, is the most suitable for them. The post as mother is given due regard and her of clerk is also suitable for them. However, prestige is re-established. they are extending their cooperation in hospi- tals and all other fields also be it engineering I want to give a few suggestions in this or administration. But in the field of industry regard. This is the tenth year of the Women's much remains still to be done for them. In Decade and during this period much has been order to enable them to earn their livelihood dODe for the progress of women but we have as industrial workers, they should be imported not so far been able to reach those women proper training and provided with jobs there. who live in villages, work in the fields and help in the construction of roads and build- I agree that in our country, much progress ings. They continue to be socially expected. has been made in the matter of emancipation Women are being exploited politically also. of women but it does not mean that every- As labourers also they are being exploited thing has been done and nothing more needs because when a man, who does a particular to be done. If you see the dai1y newspapers. work is paid Rs. 20-25 per day a women it is a common thing to find reports of bride- doing the same work is paid only Rs. 10-12. burning, suicide and rape. We find Full-page In tbe field of agriculture, women work hand reports of such cases in the newspapers. The in hand with men and if men till the field. responsibility of eradicating these evils does women do the sowing but the men are paid not lie entirely with the women. Men have to more than the women. Thus, in the matter do a lot in this regard. It is the responsibi- of payment of wages alsy they are being lity of men to create a healthy atmosphere exploited. in society so that such tragic incidents do not recur and women and young girls can live in Similarly. if we go to tbe offices. we society freely and earn their livelihood. meet many young girls and they teU us that their bosses look at them with evil intentions. [English] I wish it is not true but may do say that SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA their bosses induce them to take to wrong RAO (Vijayawada) : Sir, The hon. Members ways of life on the allurement of promo- have mentioned several tbings regarding tbe ti9P.. If the~ de;> n9t f~I.lI in line, they arC? pro~ss of ww-n~n in l~ The only remedy for this will be that a With these words, I conc1ude. I thank women member, that is the daughter, should you very much for having given me this have an eq ual right along with her brother, opportunity to speak. in her father's property. Then only, the evil ot this dowry system will be minimised SHRIMATI JAY ANTI PATNAIK. and in our State of Andhra Pradesh, our (Cuttack) Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, Government headed by Shri N. T. Rama Women's Year was stretched to a decade Rao introduced legislation in our Andhra which is now coming to a close. Hence, this Pradesh Assembly stating that women is the time for stock-taking of the decade's members should have an equal right with the achievements in relation to the status and male members of a Hindu Joint Family. condition of women. We are here to deb&te the recognition given to women's rights which I request the Government of India to emerged during the freedom struggle apd consider and introduce the legislation in this which was expressed in the Constitution. august House creating and giving equal right Of course, attainment of equality of status to women along with men. for women in the wake of heterogeneous nature of the Indian society with ita b~c 1 hope the recent decision of the hon. pattern of economic and social inequal~ Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, in and the inequalities inherent in the traditiowtl annouDcing that this Government is going to social structure is a slow process. Yet 'Vie provide free education to girls upto interme- are advancing towards that objective. There _~iiate level will certainly go a JODI way in is DO doubt. ::. j07 Discussion Ie : Progress APRIl:. 24, 1985 and Economic Fields in . 3d8 of Indian Women in Social, the InternatiOnal Educational, Political Women's DE code Speaking of the International Women's Statistics also show that women receive Decade i.e. 1'975-1985, I fee1. it is expected less and much inferior quality of medical of the planners to formulate pOlicies, pro- care. We have got indirect evidence to indi- grammes and envisage most important I feel, cate the unequal health care they receive. separate financial outlays right from the We note that in Safdarjang Hospital for beginning of the International Women's instance, 65% of the admissioris are bOys .pecade. However, in 1975 a National and 35% are girls. It is also found in the Committee on Status of Women was formed nutritional c1inic that malnutrition is much and in the middle of the decade an attempt more prevalent among girls-here the figures '!Vas made when a chapter on women and are 54% for girls l,md 46% for boys. ,development was added to the Sixth Plan document for the first time. It recognised All these show that the neglect of women three sectors--education, employment and in India is a persistent phenomenon. Accord- ,health. which were also included in the ing to an expert group every second women 20 point programme and they became impor- in her third trimester of pregnancy IS tant in formulating a strategy for women. anaemic. There is also a persisting imbalance in This Decade has made women's issue a the provision and access to medical services concern for the society. for the government for women, such as maternity. ante-natal and ·and for the legislators and for the resear- post-natal services, The number of hospital chers to assess women's problems. wards and beds reserved for women is far . I come to the first point. I would like to fewer than for men. It is reported that for 'present here the facts. or course many of every three men who avail of health services ·the factors have been presented by Shrimati only one women does so yet the percentage of Geeta Mukherjee. Firstly, the number of sick women appears to be higher at any females is decreasing from the beginning of given time. Moreover clinics are often not the century. In 1981 it was 933. In 1901 it open at times convenient to women and gene- was 972 per 1000 males: In 1971 it became rally a women does not seek treatment . 930 and as I earlier said, in 1981 it was 933. unless severely iII . The life expectancy is 52.6 for male and As regards work participation although 51.6 for female. In India more boys are born Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee has given the than girls but more girls die than boys and statistics yet according to F AO statistics the expectation of life at birth is lower for women produce at least half of the world's girls. The death rate of females particularly food and constitute one-third of world's in the age group of 0 to 4 is much higher official labour force. Further women receive even to-day. I do not have the recent figure, only one-tenth of world earned income and but in 1970 it was 70.2 for female and 58.3 hold less than one per cent of total property for males. Upto the age group of 30-34 the and thus neglected in development pJanning. female death rates are higher than males. This is very much prevalent in our country. But in the peak reproductive age group of IS to 29 the female death rate is consistently Equality with men means equal pay f.or higher. equal work. When even in many developed countries according to ILO women face dis- Then there is the social attitude towards crimination then what to say about India! In women. The discrimination process in the matters of employment the disturbing trend in · Indian society starts at birth. Then, Sir, women's participation in agriculture during the nutritional studies indicate inferior feeding past decade is the shift from the cultivator and nutrition of girls as compared to boys. to labourer status. The rise in the ranks of women agriculture labourers from less than In most Indian homes the largest. the one-third of the female work force in two most nutritions of food is given to the bread- decades to more than half points to shrink- Winner, then the boys and then last of all to . ing employment opportunities in family the girls and women. Consequently, what farms. They are forced to work as wage : hapPens ? Instances of childhood disability labourers under exp)oitive conditions .. due to nutritional deficiencies such as anaemia It is on paper only that women are at par ~d niPt-blinQn~s ~re bi~hef ~o~ firJs. . witll m~n as far ~s wa¥e scales go. But what 3c9 JJi'ClUsioll I'e : p,.o~$S "AISAKHA 4. .itO' ($AKA> . and Jjconom/c J'ieJd6ln 310 of flu/ian Women in Social, the IlJterllQliona} EduClJtiolUll. Political Women". De«ule ex.isti.,is a .sex-based division of labour in policies need to be introduced in the field of which women are generally denied access to welfare of women for .their economic uplift. bigher, paid jobs that require more skill. This Sir, I will now say about rural de~elop is specially true of the unorganised sector. In ment. ,agriculture for example women are made to undertake weeding and transplanting that can MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, Madam; fetch them half the pay that men get for please wind up. skilled work like manuring and ploughing. Ul industry like brick industry it is SHRIMATI JAYANTI PATNAIK: women who do the heavier work like the About rural development, there is the lRDP programme. Of course the planners have ,carrying of t~ wet clay on their head and assumed that tbe benefits of the develop- unloading it at tbe kiln. But they earn only half as much as the men who are entrusted ments will automatically go to the WOJtlen. but what I say is this. In suppose the ,lighter and more skilled. work of moulding IRDP beneficiary has taken up the dairy scheme or and firing. Since most of tbe said jobs are in industry, whatever it is, It is the WOlDen wbo the unorganised sector the fate of 80 per ceut of the working women in our country is that also does most of the work. In the dairy scheme also the women do the work. In they have little or no collective clout. cottage industry also she 'does the work. But Now I come to education. On tbe educa- there is no mention of her name, no recogni- tion side 75 per cent of illiterate are women. tion of her work. What I feel is that before Worse still is the situation of women from the asset is created, . the point title of tbe scheduled castes and scheduled tribes. At the male and female should be there so that at level of higher education tbe gap between least there should be a recognition of that men and women going in for university so that there cannot be any mis-utilisatati~ education is narrower. But when constitute of the asset on the part of the male. a larger part of the agricultural work force why more and more women are being pusbed I would lik~ to emphasise here that as out of agricultural development in teach- recommended by the Committee on Status ing of tbe subject. The issues pertaining to of Women we should have statutory autono- women should be incorporated in the existing mous commissions in the Centre aDd States compulsory papers at undergraduate and SO that all the programmes can be taken up post-graduate levels. But despite aU the and implemented. recommendations on the subject from expert group specially appointed by UGC or by Discrimination and cruelty against women ICSSR Advisory Committee and Committee can be traced to the inexplicable attitude of .on women's status or by working group on social apathy on the part of society. Though Women's development for the 7th Plan have Constitution pro\ides for equality between recommended. the sexes with special protection for women and children, Indians in their family lives, But Governmenfs will to implement all have been governed by personal laws and these. has been sadly lacking. religious laws which fail women to give their due. Among Hindus, various Jaws are there. Sir, I must say that a major step to be In spite of these laws we ')ee that women taken to promote female employment would still continue to live under stresses and therefore be to expand and to diversity the strains. Many forms of cruelties are inflicted "education and training programme for upon them. Though the Dowry Prohibition women. " Act has been amended. it has been ineffective ": 'Sir, 1 must say that in regard to self- to curb tbe svcial evil of giving and taking employment and setting up of vocational dowry in marriages. We all know that crimes training programme for women, especially against women are generally social perver- sions on tbe part of men. Therefore such fdf the training of tbe rural women, and the cases must be dealt with immediately with setting up of more regional institution should enough provisions for the rehabilitation of get priority. The present scheme of TRYSEM the victims, which has not been looked into ihould cover a large number of rural women. Appropriate technologies. services and public so far ••• . 111 mBcusslon t'e : Progress APIllL24, l~ tlftd Economic Fields In lH of Indian "'omell ill Society tlte International EducQtio1Nl/, Political Women·" Dectlik MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is 20.85 per cent only in the wotkinl force arid enough. Nothing wilt go on record. Mr. 1981 Census mentions that 75 per cent of Hannan Mollah. You please start. the women population are non-working women. So. such a I •• Not recorded. ";1\ })tstu.rlloll ri: Progress VAISAKHA 4. 1907 (SAKA) and Economic Fields in li4 of Indian Women in Social, the International Educational, Pt1litlcal Women's Decade tacHities like Creches Rest Rooms, toilet Women every day say something about racilities a:nd maternity benefits are essential West Bengal. But we have to agree that in ones. They are not welfare measures. These the girls' education this year. 1984.85. 1t1'e essential; whether we accept them as West Bengal has come first and got a prize t!Ssentialor as welfare measures, we have to of Rs. 1 crore from the Central Government. provide them. That is an important question Wore women who are emplo~d. The rate of education for women in U.P., Rajasthan. Madhya Pradesh and Bihar Then comes the question of agricultural is less than 20 per cent. You have to lay sector. You know already-the figure has special stress on education there; if necessary. been mentioned-that the number of women you give them some incentives, material or cultivators bas come down from about 55% otherwise so that girls come to the schools. lh 1961 to about 33% in 1981. So, this is Where the rate is less than 20 per cent, you "tiie §itulttioD. Among agricultural labourers, should take some other measures. women agricu1tural labourers 112 number df There are health problems like Malnutri- They are losing land. When '1$ lifctea'srijg. tion caused by poverty, overwork, repeated tGo,,~td~rlt distributed the surplus land, the pregnancies, low educational level and social ~uestion of titles came. We repeatedly status. Lack of access to health care services tft1tt if they distributed land not to and sex differential even when facilities are men but to men and women together, there available; Inadequate development of primary will be joint ownership. But that was also health care and preventive health services not done. Because of that, women are especially in the rural areas. Lack of mater- evicted and thrown out of land also. We nity and child health sentres. Low number have to take up this question also, so that of women heal th personnel especially in the women can get rights 00 lands. rural areas. You have to look into them Then we have the question of land and see how you can solve them. Female reform, giving joint titles, and development mortality, both in the urban and rural areas~ of agro-industries in villages for rural women is higher throughout the decades. In cases where they can get jobs. of maternal mortality, there was an increase in the percentage of deaths due to abortion Now about ear-marking of resour.:es of during 1975-85 from 9.7 per cent to 13.7 "sectoral plans and programmes. to give per cent in 1986. So, you have to look into employment and training to women. At the matter and see what are the reasons and the same time, expansion of, and provision ha~ we can combat this problem. of training opportunities for women in agri- culture, and in agro-based industries in rural The grim reality of such adverse health areas should also be done. At the same conditions is indicated by the decline in the time, we have to extend facilities like child age composition in the percentage of the care centres and maternity benefits for women populationbe low ten years from 14.5• per in the unorga:tized sector also. cent in 1971 to 12.6 per cent in 1981. In that field we suggest that you must earmark For working womev, we have to consider more funds for maternal and child health providing these things. Many things have facilities and extension of such facilities to been said about their education also. We the rural areas in parttcular. There should have seen that the number of uneducated be ban on sex based amiocentiasis and such women has increased. It was 215 million in amniocentiasis should be allowed only in 1971. whereas in 1983 it was has 250 million. medical colleges and genetic research centres. The Prime Minister has announced free eaucation up to the 12th Class. And the Regarding legal status, some members Education Minister allocated for that purpose mentioned that there are so many laws, but _y Rs. 1"0 crores. 50 lakh girl students I may tell you that only laws will not change wo'in the age group of 8 to 12 years. SO, the fate of the women jf they are Dot 1:IIis".IIoc8tiGD will Dot be sufficient to give implemented. So. you have to plug the "ttJDm 'OpPOrtunities for education. When you loopholes in the laws. The main problem is ~an1W)Unce one thing and make provision, that there many laws but women are domina- ~e are differences. You have see how ted not by secular laws, not by uniform "Sal can make up tbis gap. civil laws but by religious laws. Where is · . I 31S Discussion r6 .. P"~ress . APJW.. 24, 19~ iznd.tcon07n(f Flf/dSI.n ;U; 0/ Indian Women in Social, tlte International. .' EdMcationai, Political Women's D6catk' . the . secular law for women? There are for his programme' to .liberate the COUDtry Muslim. personal lawS; there are Christian when he said in the Hind SWiM'oJ• . "Teal' personal laws; certain sections of the Sikhs down the Pardah" tlu;: .veil of centuries of are fighting for their personal laws. They civilisation that had redueed women t.o second ate standing in the way of women's seman class human beinp, condemned to slIlffer cipation. So, if we cannot secularise laws malnutrition, diseases, hunger. and illiteracy regarding women. women will not be liberated Look at any nation today and it becpmes from this dredgery of the bondage. evident that Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi was speaking for humanity 'when he said. So, all these things you should consider "Women in a sense represent the social and if we can do that, then we will be able conscience of a country." to give some benifit to them. The question, therefore. before us i$ MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Shrimati how far has this Decade for women helped Kishori Sinha. transform their status and socio~~onol1}i~ position. How· far has it even helped SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH: Family permeate the spdal conscienC(f of qat ions s,? courts also should be established so that that they at least express concern even. jf every dispute regarding women or cases they fail to be moved into action .by t~e concerning women can be taken in those pathos of it. courts only. Unless we are able to change the situation and the present system nothing To count first, the achievements because happens. As lon~ as this system continues they are few, let me quote the U.N. spokes- all the proble:ns concerning women will be man Mr. Leticia Sahani, Assistant Secretary- th:zre. General of the United Nations in charge of the Decade programme : MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER You please sit down now. ~hrimati Kishori "This campaign has helped stimu- Sinha.. late a long, slow, quiet revolution:' SHRIMATI KISHORI SINHA The achievements include a significant (Vaishali) : It is a matter of gratification that rise in the lifespan of women. and about one we are discussing this subject during the hundred governments have set up ministries U. N. Decade for Women. This is as it or departments dealing with women's affairs. should be. Our leaders, such as Mahatma Panditji had. once said: "We til1k of Gandhi, lawaharlal Nehru, Raja Ram revolution, political, ar:'d economi.:. And yet Mohan Roy and Shrimati Indira Gandhi had the greatest revolution in a country is the played a dominant role in the women's one that affects the status and living condi- movement. In this country. our political tions of its women." partie~. our Government moreover. parti- cularly our successive Prime Ministers have We may not consider this achievement as shown their great concern for and took active a kind of revolution which Panditji w~nted. interest in helping the women's condition and Yet, some achievemen.ts i~ this regard have in solving their problems. I would say tbat been made if we consider the age-old pre- the women's movement in India ran parallel judices, religious bigotry. sUPerst1tion~ etc.' to the freedom struggle. It was at the In the next few months, conference bidding of Mahatma Gandhi that the women a. w in· large numbers threw up their veiJ and take stock of the situation and achievements during the Decade for Womcn will be held came out to participate in th~ freedom in Nairobi and there will be no acrimony in struggle. Alongside with it, th~ movement stock taking. 'Let it' not be 'forgotten tbat tor improving the condition and status of women also' gained momentum and to infuse during this Decade in somc . countries portItIIJ has been enforced still and in the matter'of a sense of confidence in the women their appointments' in 'the 'Home and" F~ ~preseritatives were accorded important positions in public and administrative Services women are 'beini' discriminated against, and all this is being done ia tile functions. name of religion. I am sorry that this __ Gandhiji made it an essential requisite was not discussed during the recent Womea.. '317 Discussion re: Progress VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAKA) and Economic Fields in 318 of lndian Women in Social, the Internalional Educational. Polil ical Women's Decade Conference of the Third World Countries to light the dark comers of superstition and lIeW .in Delhi. to release the elevating forces of a renascent India so that women will be treated on a I must congratulate the Supreme Court footing of equality with men. 'for its recent judgment enforcing the ·,upremacy of our . Criminal Law' and also It is very distressing that girls continue interpreting Personal Law of Muslims in a to suffer from malnutrition and neglect. most rational and human manner to uphold They are not sent to schools. All this means the right of . a divorced women to mainte- that not only this generation of women but nance. the next generation of women will remain under-nourished, improverished and prone to . Similarly, the Supreme Court has upheld diseases and therefore vulnerable to perpetual : 'the uplirnited' right of a woman over her exploitation. Therefore, let us at last start ··Stridhan· which will go a long way in with a programme of higher enrolment of securing economic independence. girls, greater stress on the delivery system of Within our country the U. N. Decade health care to the girls, and at least promise has had mixed results. For the first time in two sets of uniforms to each girl who gets · this country the faB in sex ratio has been into school and remains there till the end of arrested. . But I must add with regret that her schooling. Let us have a new slogan · this improvement has not been uniform. In 'take care of the girls and you will have Bihar this ratio is still. falling-showing the taken care of the nation.' backwardness of the State. There has been some narrowing of the rural urban ratio in While dealing with this Decade, let us women's education. India has also registered also not ignore some recent trends. The a decline in child marriage but its proportion process of development itself has certain is still as high as 43.5 per cent. The distres- built-in disadvantages to women. At the sing practices ]ike infanticide have been report on the world status of women pre- curbed but child mortality rates for female pared by the Carnegic Corporation shows, the influx of women into the paid labour : children continue to be higher than for male force has not significantly narrowed the gap ·children. We, must hope ~hat the Prime Minister's programmes of providing free between men's and women's pay nor has it . education to girls will make a dent in those. stemmed the rising tide of poverty among But I would urge that the Government women. It is also our experience that women should also provide school uniform and mid- do not get equal pay with men for the same 'day meals to make the programme effective. job. This is so in regard to work in field. in factories and in homes. This is notwith- Despite legislations, we have cases of standing the fact that women officers in the bride burning for non-payment of dowry, I.A.S., I.P.S. Income Tax and other Services harassment of and atrocities on girls. Almost have distinguished themselves. every day we come across news of such My next query is addressed to the Plann- "incidents which show a major area of weak- ing Commission. Is the Planning Commission ness. Malnutrition of girls by quardians of aware of the fact that the commercialisation Jaw and order are matters of great concern. of agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry . We also saw in the press that thousands and fisherie'i. driving women out of jobs and of people gathered the other day witness depriving them of locally available nutrition? '.sali Which had been forbidden by Jaw in the The Financial Expre.rs carried an article by last century. I am refferring to these in- social researcher Devaki Jain which said, cidents to show· how in the minds of men "In India, studies are showing the link . change has not yet taken place in their between commercialisation of agriculture and . Uainking and attitude. Rightly has the nutrition deprivation of females With Prime ,Minister said: "The feeling of giving mechanisation, several lakh women have been .,women their due place in society should thrown out of jobs in fisheries, tobacco ,pcl"l.n~ate the whole consciousness of the industry, handlooms. etc. Development ,community." I take the opportunity to policies have to take into account the impact J~ppeal to ·hon. Members .here to convey this on women." ,p~ ,of tbe Prime Minister to the countryside If development policies are women- .PQ Uf~ bomes to combat the prejudices, oriented, Seventn Phm wm $ive ~reatc;(' "19 DisclISsion re : Progress APRIL 24. J985 and Economic Fkld. In 320 of Indian Women in Social, lhe InlerlUltioltal Educational, Political Women's Decade emphasis to improved cbuJlahs and bio-gas In addition. the Departmeot of Familrf plants. Releasing women from drudgery is a Welfare has sponsored for expecta.nt mo&hMs major plank of our policy. We have even a various protective measures against infection Division for this in the Department of and immunisation of children against various Science and Technology but we are yet to diseases. But we should keep in mind tbat see a women-orientation in planning for the success of such prog~mes laraelY' permeation of consciousness that our Prime depends upon the active participation and Minister speaks of in the administration. involvement of the people at large. I hope the Minister will assure the House 20.00 brs. tbat in the terminal year of the decade our Moreover. health and cdllCa,tlOJ,1 are the planning and development process will two essentials for the development of ~ 1Decome women-oriented. for the improvement of the quality of 1.Jfe. The various roles of women at bom~ aad SHRIMATI INDUMATI BHATIA- society can be properly played if they are CHARYYA (Hooghly) : Mr, Deputy Speaker, educated in the strict sense of the term. Sir, I begin by quoting a few lines from the writings of our beloved late Prime Minister Education strengthens aspirations for Shrimati Indira Gandhi. "Family planning economic and social advancement. is the key to every individual's and every family's betterment. It is also part of the Raising the status of women in the fami\>' right of women to be in full health and to and society is very important to bring social use their gifts to bring up healthier, better changes and ,to cultivate a better planned looked after children, to have more attractive family which leads to the attaining of a homes, to develop their personalities and find healthy and decent standard of living. deeper fulfilment in their lives." With these [Translation] words, our beloved late Prime Minister Indira Ji pointed out in a nutshell the net outcome PROF. CHANDRA BHANU DEVI of famiJy planning. (Balia) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am grateful for the opportunity given to me to Family planning is necessary not only speak on the Women's Decade. Women for controlling the ever increasing growth of had been given special importance in tbe population which is a menace to a welfare glorious history of India. In our old~t State but also for the health and survival of scripture, the Rigveda, a number of refere!1~s the mother and the child since the high rate c~n be found which indicate the progress that of mortality of both is alarming. women had made in that era. The most prominent example is that at that tiJDe .there Mothers and children have additional was no restriction on women to ~ttain needs for reproductive growth and develop- spiritual knowledge. The great sage Mallu ment and they are biologically more vulner- while mentioning the importance of WOIllCm able to environmental influences. So, special has said in the Man; Smriti that that plQQe programmes are required in pregnancy, honoured, 'where women are beco~ child-birth and childhood, in addition to the the abode of Gods and where they ~re general health measures. subjected to contempt. there everything comes It is gratifying that during 1984-85, to naught'. In the sacred land of India, women Special emphasis was laid on the health have always been worshipped and have been status of mothers and children in the context given proper respect. Of course, for some .of the 20-Point Programme which stipulates centuries they went into oblivion in society, acceleration of programmes of welfare of but as and when they got an opportunity. women and cbildren and nutrition programme they again became active on the social and for pregnant women and nursing mothers and political scene. Right from freedom str_1e ·children. The national Health Policy has also to the framing of the Constitution and till attached great importance to the Maternal this day, courageous and able women have and Child Health Programme, both in rural contributed. their might in all the spheres. In and urban areas, by the setting up of India's history, the names of Ilazia Sultana. primary heaith centres, rural family welfare Rani Laxmibai, Rani Durgawati, Sarojbtj centress and lub-centres, urban family welfare Naidu and many others have been written f~ptres and postpartum ~n~res~ ~D ,olden lett4?rs~ Tbe~ is a~he~ ~ 321 Discussion re : Progress VAISAKHA 4, 1907 (SAKA) and Economic Fields in 322 ofIndian Women in Social, the International Educational, Politica/ Women's Decade, without which the history of not only India large extent. but of the entire world would remain incom- plete and that is the name of our late Ptime Our Prime Minister, while reorgantsmg Minister Indira Gandhi. The heights of the Ministries, has raised the status of the progress that our country has attained is all Social Welfare Department to tbat of a ful- due to her. But in spite of so many opportu- fledged Ministry by renaming it as the nities having been provided to women, they Ministry of Social and Women's Welfare. are still facing so many problems. They have All this proves that our Prime Minister not only to do the entire household work, wants to give a new direction to the develop- t~ey have also to bring up their children and ment of women and we are thankful to him side by side work in the fields in order to for this initial ive. meet the flnanciaI requirements of their 1985 is the last year of the Women's families. In order to make both ends meet, Decade. In this connection, 1 want to give· they have to do many odd jobs. The prob- some su~estions for women's welfare. First lems of dowry, child marriage and depriva- of all. I an~ of the view that in' the States tion plague women throughout their lives. also there 'should be a separate Ministry on Although Government have taken many steps the lines of the Ministry at the Centre for for the upliftment of women after indepen- women's welfare. Sp.condly, women should' dence, yet the number of working women is be considered a separate group for all the only 14 per cent as against 53% per cent developmental programmes in view of the working men. In the field of education also importance of women's progress and for women have been lagging far behind. As that there should be a separate sub-plan in against the literacy rate of 48 per cent among the Seventh Five Year Plan. Thirdly, keeping men, this rate is only 25 per cent among in view the rapid increase fn population. women. As regards health and nutrition, family planning needs to be, made more women lag behind men. Keeping all these efficient and effective in order to improve factors in view, we would have to make fresh the economic condition and health of women. ~fforts in this direction. Unfortunately, more Fourthly, the women's \velfare corporation, attention is paid towards women in the urban as proposed by the Central Government areas as' against those in the rural areas. is a revoluti ~nary step for the uplift- Therefore, the women in the rural areas ment of women. I wo~ld suggest that would have to be made the focal point of all the Central Government should issue instruc- the developmental schemes so as to achieve tions to all the State Governments to set up real progress of women. Women will get due such corporations in their respective states as regard as mother, sister and wife only when soon as possible. they can stand on their own feet .. The need of tne hour is not only to liberate them from No programme for the upliftments of deprivation and exploitation, they should women could be sustained only through also be provide with maximum opportunities governmental efforts. In this regard, voluntary for employment so that they could play a organisations should also play an important vital role in regard to taking a decision about role. their own future. Women remain far behind I not only hope but I am sure that the men in participating in the progress of the new direction given to women's welfare under country and in enjoying the various services the dynamic leadershi!) of our young Prime' being provided to the people. Therefore, Minister would lead to their rapid progress further concrete steps are needed to speed up and development. the pace of social and economic development of women. Our young Prime Minister has [English) taken some revolutionary steps in this regard. It is a matter of pride that he gave tickets SHRIMATI PHULRENU GUHA to a large number of women candidates for (Contai) : Mr. Deputy Speaker~ we. ar~. the Eight Lok Sabha elections and today discussing the progress of worpen in the their number in Lok Sabha is the highest so social, educational, political and economic far. In the Assembly elections also he field in the International Women~s Decacfe. earmarked 20 per cent of the total number Women are nearly half the population, b~ of seats for women candidates and this has women suffer from social, economic, educa-: iJicreased their representation to a very tiona I and political disadvantases. Sir~ YQ':1 ~ Diseas:tloft re : Progress APRIL 24, -198S and Economic Fields in 324 0/ Indian Women in Social. the International Educational, Political Women's Decade can see that wben the question of discussion The health data shows that between 1970 on women comes, the time is limited, it is so and 1980, the infant mortality rate declined little, (Interruptions). Excuse me, we have from 129 to 114 but female infant mortality to $8y that tbe time is very limited because rate increased in rural areas from 139 in we are discussing the issues of half the 1970 to 142 in 1979. population of the country. Unlike most of the Western countries, MR. DEPUTY SPEAK.ER : There are the number of males exceeds the number of so many demands of the women that we are females in India. There has been a continu- disculsiog. ous decline in sex ratio ever since '1901. There is a welcome feature in 1981 censUs SHRIMATI PHULRENU GUHA : In as there is a slight increase in the sex ratio. 1972 the Committee on the Status of Women In 1981, the number of females per thousand in India has been appointed by the Govern- male was 933 as compared to 930 in ment of India with the initiative of our -1971. beloved Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi, to undertake all the questions relating to the The first legislation on women introduced right and status of women in the context of during the decade was the ordinance promu- changing socia1 and economic condition in laged in 1975 on equal remuneration for men the country and solving new problems relating and women. Later, it was converted into to the advancement of women. equal Remuneration Act in 1976. Another recognition is reflected in the Sixth Five The value of gender equalit}' had been Year Plan which contains, for the first time, ~pted in India more than hillf a century a Chapter on Women and development. In ,artier through the Fundamental Rights this connection. I would like to mention that llesolution adopted by the Indian National it is no use of only having a Chapter in the Consress in 1931 and then built into the Plan or the allotment of money. There Constitution of the Indian Republic. should be a continuous monitoring on the implementation and there should be conti- The legal reforms, education and political nuous report as to how far the allotment of rights-the three instruments designed by money helps the ~.'omen to develop. Free India to realise women's right to equa- In this connection, I would like to suggest lity had failed to benefit to large masses of that there should be a cell in the Planning women affected by the probeem of poverty, Commission where all the reports from aU powerlessness, over-work and i1literacy. over India should come and it should be The Committee on Status of Women processed and follow-up action taken in due submitted the Report on 1st January 1975. course. I am not discussing about employment of In 1975 the Parliament adopted a women as our friends have already discussed, unenimous resolution urging the Prime and we have very limited time. In the Chapter Minister to 'initiate a comprehensive pro- of Women and Development in 1980, the gramme of legislation and administration main drawbacks in women development were measures aimed at removing as far as possible identified as follows: the economic and social injustice, disabilities and discrimination to which Indian women (1) pre-occupation with repeated preg- cOntinue to be subjugated.' nancy; During the discussion on the Demands (2) physical work load; for Grants of the Ministry of Education, we (3) lack of education; and have noticed the condition of women's ~ucation in India. We noted the massive (4) lack of independent economic status. putnber of women illiteracy, the widening gap in men and women enrolment in all types of During the last 10 years, w.omen's education, the increased imbalance and organisations multiplied and the significant inequality created in between men and women feature is their increased degree of protest in rural areas, the failure of educational against rising incidence of crimes and violence system to promote the value of $C7t equality against women. There is a degree of improve- etc. Jl)ent of women's overall status in the family. 325 DiscussioR,.e: Prol"ess VAISAKHA 4.l9O) (SAKA) and EconDmlc FJ~ In ,. of Indian WOlMn in Social. tM InlM""'tollal Educal/onal. Political WO'nUn'" D.t:1NIIe That is one very significant thing which we should be formulated and place4 bctvrc .. find during the last decade. House as soon as possible. . In 1984 General Elections, the number of KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEB women representatives in Parliament increased (Jadavpur): Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, this substantially. But what is their percentage, is a very important Discussion and I welcome you can see. The need for establishment and it. Our Party is trying to do something for strengthening the grass root level organisa- the welfare of women. tions of women, particularly in rural areas has been acknowledged. It is also necessary Women have a great role to play in our to enforce recognition of women's respon- country. I remember our late Prime Minisur. sibility on different levels of Government Mrs. Indira Gandhi, because she was not personnel. It is no use only recognised in the only the brightest son of India but she was voluntary sector. In the Government sector the brightest son of the world. Being a lady also, this should be done. Now, issues have member of Parliament, I am very proud of been identified that make women equality Mrs. Indira Gandhi's activities. We aft and deve lopment a far more complex than know that she is known for her activifleill has been understood before. Since the and achievements. Committee on Status of women gave the Our late Prime Minister, Mrs. Indira Report, the things have become more com- Gandhi, is no more. We will not be able plex. The success for achieving status for to hear her voice as before. But it is a fa~ women depends upon the removal of all that for generations to come, the people wi" qmstraints and to empower women to assert read in history that such a woman had ever their views and demands on the development in flesh and blood walked upon this earth~ process. I would point out that the Mrs. Indira Gandhi's philosophy to me hall Committee on Status of women have recom- a mean ing and significance beyond lb. mended a continuous and a permanent Com- confines of our country in Our times. mission on Women. . Our late Prime Minister, Mrs. Indinl We have advanced no doubt but we have Gandhi, told the All India Science Conferelice to work very hard to reach our goal. held at Bangalore last year to play an etrec .. I welcome the judgment of the Supreme tive role in furtherence of disarmament and Court on giving maintenance allowance to world peace. Unless there is a freeK on tho divorced women. Why not have a law on production of nuclear arms, the developmem maintenance allowance to divorced women and progress of peace-loving countries will who are not able ta maintain themselves? be hampered~ I would further suggest that a common Mrs. Indira Gandhi asked women to Civil code should be formulated. I request fight not only for getting a fair deal but also the Government to at least have a discussion for securing world peace and eradicating in this session on the com men Civil code. poverty. I would like to draw your attention to Before Mrs. Gandhi, towards the radter the fact that unless social attitude is changed sad end of his otherwise remarkable career. by the majority of our people, by both men lawaharlal Nehru was asked what he reprdfellt and women, not only women but also men, as his greatest achievement as Prime MinfsMr no real justice can be expected in our society. of independent India. He paused fot " I ~uld also s:Jggest that in the syllabus moment and then said "women's education". of our schools and colleges, a subject of We find from past histol)', SOlDO fundamental social justice for all students be educated and knowledgeable ladies like introduced. Gargi. Maitreyi, Khana, Se1abati, Saita, SeJeitri, Sita and Arundbati. Lastly. I would say that we are happy that a Ministry of Social and Women's If we observe the medieval India, we .Dr Welfare has been formed. But I tell you that see the active part women took at that tttner. unless a policy resolution is formulated, it Women were not only intelligent but tllti will not be .possible to go much ahead. So, ladies of the Mughal harem played quiet' ~ I ~uggest that a policy resolution on women si&nificant role in tlac State policy of lDdia. ,. , H7 Discussion're;· Progress APRIL 24, 198~ and £conoinic Fields in of Indian Wo-men in Sc-cial, the International 3a Educational, Political Women's Decade But unfortunately, no systematic attempt bas announced free Higher Secondary Education been so far made to assess their role in the for women and compulsory education up to affairs of the State and policy. The ladies of Class VIII. the Mughal harem were not only enlightened but most of them took delightful interest in Thirdly, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, our Prime public affairs. Minister has given lot of chances to his Ministry also. We are grateful to Shri Rajiv And if we observe our present history of Gandhi because he has taken many lady India, we find that a lot of ladies like Members into his Cabinet and also into the Sarojini Naidu, Kamala Nehru, Matangini Ministry. Being a Jady Member. I am proud Hazra and Basanti Das have taken the initia- of this act of Shri Rajiv Gandhi. tive and ' encouraged the independence SHRI HARISH RAWAT: The Ministry movement. is also headed by a women. And, our late Prime Minister lndiraji is pow ,a history of the world. She sacrified her KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Shri Rajiv Gandhi has changed the name of the life for . the sake of our country and for Ministry from Social Welfare into Social national integration. and Women's Welfare, for the first time. We are grateful to Indiraji because she has ratified the ILO Convention No. 100 As Genera~ Secretary of the West Bengal for the rights of equal wages for women. I Mahila Congress, I have done a lot of work prpud, a lady Member of Parliament. to develop women's activities, to develop am, T . as to say that we the Indian women are really their educational system and to develop them proud" of Mrs. Gandhi and that we are the economically and socially. I have also blind followers of Mrs. Gandhi and her attended a lot of international Women's philos,?phY. Seminars to observe and find out the actual needs of women. I would like to make the We know that in 1975. the U.N. Confe- following suggestions for improving the rence at Mexico celebrated International condition of women in India : . Women's _ Year and adopted equality, development and. peace as the goals of the I do not believe in a quota system like women's decide. reservation for women. I think it is our ~.' . l' ' legitimate right to get equal facilities for It:was precisely to' serve the purpos.! of women. pre5enting - easy to read overview of this important subject that the Geneva based Naijrul, a famous Bengali poet, says: feminist Group: 1819 published in 1983 "I am in a mind of socialism; I have DO "'resource guide for organisation and action" differences between men and women, which I . '. is the best creation in the world; men and enti~led Women in Development. women have done it equally". Briefly. the 1819 Guide covers the follo- Swami Vivekananda says : wing .areas: some development was done and not, done for women; women in Na jagi I e Bharat lalana, ai Bharat bujhi jagena jogena. relati_on to food production, health, commu- nic,ation a,od t;ducation. and the impact on If we cannot awaken the Indian ladies, India W(lIllqU of. inco)lle-generatin6 comes including will not improve. tb.ose . controlled by tbe multi-nationals. Women are sincere, honest, serious. We must congratulate our present Prime dynamic and dedicated. Their active per- Minister Shri Rajiv Gandhi because he is the formance can be seen everywhere in India. leader who has taken the oath to waive the obstacles in the path of womell. First of all, Hon. Member Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee Shri Rajiv Gandhi changed' the name of the has said that we are not improving. We are Ministry of Social Welfare into the Ministry improving. For example, in respect of my -of Sodal, and' Women's Welfare in order State of West Bengal I can say tbis : to establish 'the rights of WOn1en and their [Translation} developmen t. In Bengal five ladies contested the election Secondly. Shri Rajiv Gandhi has and all the five have win. ... I L • ,~. • ;,~. ~ 329 Dlscwslo7l,.e: Progress VAISAKHA 4, t9O; (SAKA) and Economic };ieid, In 330 of Indian Women in So.cia/, the International Educational. Political Women's Decade [English] There are some loopholes which need to be piugged. Government should implement I demand of the hon. Minister: please at least whatever legal steps can be taken allow women equal right in employment opportunities. According to their status, under law. according to their capability, women should Some public sector concerns are not get more and more chances in schools, allowing the married women maternity colleges, hospilals. government services, benefits. This discriminatory attitude should etc. stop. Vocational training for women shouid Government should take a bold step to be job-oriented. Economic independence for create pub lic opinion against dowry. Here women would help eradicate social evils like they should employ all forms: of the media- dowry and bride-burning and would have a the TV, radio and newspapers. salutary effect on family planning efforts. There is need for re-examination of the entire They should also set up a high power planning and educational system. legal committee for this purpose. Until we Government should guarantee adequate create a strong public opinion in this regard, representation to women in decision-making we cannot do anything. Realisation is the bodies like the Planning Commission, Public, main thing. So, I request the Government to Service Commission, Planning and Recruit- please set up an active Women's Committee ment Boards and statutory bodies at the drawing from the Lady members of Parlia- State and Central levels. ment which should chalk out the programme as to how to proceed for the all round Government should take a bold step to development of women. Then only we can educate the rural people. specially the solve the women's problems. Women's Adivasis. At present only 25 per cent of education should be given greater attention women are educated. Therefore, illiteracy and they should be economically uplifted. among women should be wiped out. Thank you for giving me this opport- Working women's hotels are very few unity. in our country. Government should build more and more hostels and creche for [Translation} working women. SHRIMATI PREMALABAI CHAVAN Goverment should formulate a policy to (Karad) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am organize women working in the unoraganized thankful for the opportunity given to me to sectors like agricultural labourers, bidi workers, participate in this important discussion. brick workers, etc., and effective steps should Today, when we are discussing this issue, I be taken to prevent exploitation of such can say that our Government have done a lot for women. We cannot forget that women by the management. Women are working mostly as agricultural labour doing after independence ample progress has been manual work and in cottage industries, In made by women and in the field of education also much progress has been made by them. ·these areas, new techniques are being intro- duced and mechanisation is also taking place. Although our society is male-oriented, And where retrenchment is to be done, only yet efforts have all along been made to women are removed ... protect and uplift the women. The woman of MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER ~ Please India has held the higbest position in the world. conclude. KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Women in India participate in all walks Under the law, women and men are entitled of life. Right from a farm labourer to the to equal wages, but the practice is different ... office of the Prime Minister. she has performed all the roles efficiently. This proves MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER please that women are no Jess efficient than men.' conclude. Our women have earned a name as judges, collectors, lawyers and doctors. KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE Anti-dowry liiteps which can be taken OUf leaders used to say that Mahatma under la... should be implemented. Gandhi, the Father of the Nation, had told 331 Discussion re : Progress and Economic Fields 111 332 of Indian Women in Social. 1M !nterlUJlional . Educational. Political Women's D,eade them that independence could not be achieved Our Government have made many by begging for it. Similarly, we believe that efforts during the Women's Decade and our women are not going to get anything by young Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi begging for it. Rather, we shall have to has, by creating a separate Ministry, tried. struggle for it. We cannot achieve deliverance to remove the shortcomings in these efforts by begging for it. so that special attention could be paid to women's problems. It ha<; been observed that right from the Vedic p.!rioJ, wom~~ has enjoyed a very The 20-Point Programme bas been of high p03ition. That period saw women like much help to women. But, today we see Gargi. Maitreyi and others. This proves that the benefits of these programmes are that our women were also intellectually not reaching rural women, although all brilliant and they also had genius just Ilk'! efforts are being made to do so and I hope men. that our Government would definitelv succeed in their objective. The most important Thereafter, in the Puranic era also, we factor is to improve the economic condition saw women like Sita, Draupadi and Tara- of women. Only then can they become mati. really independent. Unless equal' wages are Indian women faced their downfall only ensured and equal opportunities are provided when there were foreign invasions on India. for education, we cannot ensure their progress During the rule of foreign invaders, we lost or improvement in their status. Women our independence and purdd.'t System can be would ha ve to make efforts themselves quoted as an example. When the Mughals to see that atrocities are not com- cam~ to India and ruled our country, we mitted on them. I am confident that Jost independence completely and women our Prime Minister Rajivji, would definitely were confined to their homes and they were succeed in his efforts. The incidence of such deprived of education. atrocities has definitely come down and he has taken steps to make facilities available Then started the British era. During to women and we hope that during his that period the condition of our women Prime Ministership, even after the Women's became worse. The British rule gave a new Decade, efforts would continue to be made turn to our educational system and even men for women's progress and he would continue were given such type of education which hi!. endeavous to see that our country forges generated a slave mentality and schools and ahead and the shortcomings, if any, are colleges became mere factories for turning remeved. out clerks. Even in that period we had women like Rani of Jhansi and Ahilya Bai [English} who fought battles for independence and SHRI A. CHARLES (Trivandrum): became immortal. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is with a great sense of pride that I stand here to speak a After independence, the prominent few words about the progress of Indian leaders of our country like Mahatma Gandhi, women in the International Women Decade. nat . Gangadher Tilak, Mahatma Phule, I feel proud that I belong to a country Raja Ram Mohan Roy and others started which produced the greatest Jady. or rather making efforts for the emancipation of the greatest Jeader of the century, Shrimati women and much progress was made in this Indira Gandhi. The hon. Kumari Mamata direction. Many law were passed for ine up_· Banerjee has said that the whole women are liftment of the women and emphasis was hid proud of the great leadership given by Indira on women's education. The result is that Gandhi. I want to correct her. Not only today women has come to occupy high the whole women but the whole nation is positions in society. Our late Prime Minister, proud of the great leadership given by our Shrimati Indira Gandhi, made her name late Prime Minister, Shrimati Indira Gandbi. immortal in the world a od there in no parallel in history for the last 5000 years When we discuss about the role of nor will there be even in tl)e times to come. women we often pay glowing tributes to the This .is the glorious culture of India which contribution made by our women in various will not only protect itself but the entire capacities but we often fail to recognise them mankind also. as equal partners. So, the questions is 331 Discussion re : Progre'6 VA]SAKBA 4, 1.907 (SAKA) and Economic Fields in 3:34 of IndiilR W~n tn Social, the International Educationol, Political Women's Decade wbether we are willing to accept them as be relaxation in age for them. Somebody equal partners. ]n the Bible a great pI.ace has suggested that there should be Commis- of honour is given to women. The Bible sion appointed to study the present condi. says that a virtuOlls woman is a crown to tion of women and to bring forward neces- her husband. Consider the condition of a sary proposals to improve their condition. King who loses his crown. If a man loses the I wish to say that that Commission should be confidence and fellowship of woman who is given a time-limit to bring their report and his part ner in life he will be nothing in life. suggestions. I suggest that that this Com- We are all experiencing in our homes, the mission should include men who have a real love, affection and care of our mothers. concern to upliftment of women, so that Whenever we discuss the role of women, good results may come out of their delibe- whenever we consider about the legislation rations. to be brought forward to improve their condition, etc., we have to think of our I congretulate Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee mothers. Lots of things have been said about for bringing forward this Discussion under the condition of women. Very often, from Rule 193 on the role of women which has the Press, we come to hear of the great given an opportunity to the hon. Members atrocities committed on women. One of the to say how to improve the condition of main reason is the very dengerous system of women. On so many important subjects, Dowry. ,Dowry system is the greatl!st evil very often, in her political arguments, she which stands in the way of liberation of used to excel men. But when she was women. We should consider the possibility speaking for the women, sbe was very soft of having a uniform legislation all over the as is usual of :women, expressing their charm country to ban Dowry and to ensure equal and love. This again shows that women right for women along with men. It will go always have a place in our society and in our a long way in liberating the women from hearts. With these words I conclude. Thank you. their present bondage. THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE We are very happy that our dynamic MINISTR Y OF SOCIAL AND WOMEN'S Prime'Ministe'r has brought forward a legis- WELFARE (~HRIMATI M. CHANDRA- lation for ensuring free education for girls all SEKHAR) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am over the cQuntry upto the 11 tb standard. very greatful to the hon. members for bring. But mere free education, I am afraid, will ing forth this discussion, to focus attention not improve the condition of women. In on the development of women during the rural homas little girls are given too much decade. It very gratifying to find that work and responsibility to care for the among the 14 members who took part in this younger children when the parents go for discussion, there were also a few male work. Social Organisations, Voluntary members. Of course this time the ratio is Agencies etc.. along with the Government in the reverse. There were more women and agencies, must come forward to see that men were a few only. girls are given all facilities so that they may be able to pursue their education at a higher AN HON. MEMBER: Actually we all level. are interested in participating in the debate. But there was no time. In some of the development countries, SHRIMATI M. CHANDRASEKHAR: opportunities exist for women to get employ· I am happy that at least on this occasion, ment at a comparatively later age. Here we women were given preference to men, because have got age restriction both for men and it is a subject concerning more to women. women. After a certain age, they cannot All the members who took part made very get employment. But women are in a valuable suggestions and they also expressed difficult position because in their early age their happiness about certain 'advancement they have to look after the children and so and awareness that has taken place in the they cannot go for employment. development of women and before I reply to specific points raised by the hon. members, I I would like to suggest that a way or a would 1ike to give a brief review of the method should be found ur some ,rule should achievements during the International be framed so that they can be made eligible Women's Decade in India, because that is for employment at a later age. There should the subject on which the discussion started. 335 Discussion re : Progress APRIL 24. 1985 and Economic Fields In 336 a/Indian Women in Social, the Internalional Educational, Political Women's Decade Based on the guidelines contained in the The Maternity Benefit Act was amended United Nations World Plan of Action, the in 1976 to cover women who were not entitled recommendations of the Mexico Conference, to maternity benefits under the Employees the report of the Committee on the Status State Insurance Act, 1958. of Women in India and ihe Declaration of I am however aware that these legislations the International Women's Year in 1975, the pertaining to working women are not being Ministry of Social and Women's Welfare had implemented to '~e extt"!il: de~:red because of prepared a National Plan of Act ion for lack of adequate enforcei~lent machinery. Women in 1976. In this context I must say The Ministry of Labour has ~ooked into this here that the hon. member Dr. Phulrenu problem and has proposed a separate imple- Guba was the chairperson of the Status of menting machinery for all labour laws Women Committee and within about two pertaining to women and children in the and a half years, the along with the other States and Union Territories as a new members had brought out a very valuable Centrally Sponsored Schem~ in the Seventh document. It identified the areas of Plan. This machinery will take care of the Employment, Education, Health, Family Acts pertaining to working women. In this Planning, Legislative Measures, Nutrition and context I would like to say that the sugges- Social Welfare Strategies and Measures for tion made by the hon. Member, Shrimati improving women's position in these areas. Geeta Mukherjee. to coordinate the women The National Plan of Action was circu- welfare work, is being taken· up by the lated to all of the State Governments and Ministry. I am happy about that suggestion. Union Territories and they were requested to I hope, as- a nodal Ministry we 'will be able form their own Plan of Action on the basis to evolve that. of the National Plan of Action, which pro- Mutual consent as a ground for divorce vided the broad guidelines. is recognised in the Special Marriage Act, 1976. The Committee on the Status of For the purpose of implementation of the Women in India had recommended the Action Points contained in the National recognition of this principal law in all per- Plan of Action, State Level Coordination sonal laws. It was incorporated into the Committees were constituted in almost all Hindu Law by the Marriage Law (Amend- the States. The implementation of the ment) Act, 1976. Necessary amendments in Action Points contained in the National Plan other systems of personal law have not yet of Action, the report of the Committee on been introduced as the Government is keen Status of Women in India and various other that the initiative for reform of personal plans, is a continuing process. Comiderable laws should come from the community it- achievements have, however, been made in self. So, the point raised by some hon. Mem- various fields such as health, education, bers can be met by this. ' employment legislation etc. during the Decade, as mentioned by various hon. The right to exercise 'option of puberty' members. I will briefly refer of these to obtain a divorce was available earlier only achievements. to Muslim women, who were married while All the existing laws were reviewed to still minors. This has been extended to ensure equality and social justice to women. Hindu women. Cruelty a::; a ground for divorce has also been added to Hindu Law. The Equal Remuneration Act was passed The period of waiting after a decree of in 1976 to provide for the payment of equal judicial separation or restitution of conjugal remuneration to men and women for the rights, has been reduced from two years to same type of work and to prevent discrimi- one year. Cruelty has been added to the nation on the ground of sex against women grounds for divorce. Since the Legislature in the matter of employment. did not enumerate situations that would constitute cruelty, the judiciary has stepped Secondly, the Factory Act was amended in and interpreted cruelty to include mental in 1976 which made it obligatory for the cru~1ty as well. The High Courts have e~ployer employing 30 or more women to consistently held that a false allegation of provide for creches for the children of adultery by the husband or wife shwld be women employees. construed as mental cruelty. 3.37 Discussion re : Progress VAISAKiIA 4, 1907 (SAKA) and Economi c Fields in 338 of lndi«!l Women in Social, the International Educational, Political Women's Decade Much has been talked of having a ParI iament can be considered by us at the uniform civil code in India. The Govern- appropriate time. I want to assure the hon. ment is keen on enacting a uniform cIvil members that further reform of the Dowry code, but we also feel that, in the first place, Act will be considered. We have an open to being about any changes in the minority mind on the subject and that I can say that groups' personal laws, a right climate is to the last word has not been said on the be created. The Ministry of Information subject. and Broadcasting, Central Social Welfare BoarJ, State Social Welfare Advisory Boards The Law Ministry are framing the Rules and State Governments, and UT Adminis- under the Act after consulting the State Governments, and we hope implementation trations were e asked to generate attitudinal changes among members of minority of the new amendments will start very communities with the help of voluntary soon. agencies in the field. Action has been initiated The Family Courts Act was passed by by these agencies through various campaigns the Parliament in 1984 to set up Family and publicity drives. Courts in every area in the State comprising Two Criminal Laws (Amendment) Acts a city or town, whose population exceeds one were enacted by Parliament in 1983, which million. These family courts are to be set up seek to amend the Indian Penal Code, the by the State Governments and the Law Indian Evidence Act and the Criminal Pro- Ministry will be taking up the matter with cedure Code to make the offence of rape them. After studying the working of the and such crimes against women much more Courts a decision can be taken to extend Btringent and effective. It also introduces a them to smaller towns. new provision in the Indian Penal Code to The jurisdiction of the Courts will be make cruelty against women by the husband in respect of proceedings regarding marriage and other relations punishable. The onus disputes and also maintenance and guardian- of proof of innocence would . rest on the ship disputes. accused in such cases. The Dowry Prohibition Act was amended The Suppression of Immoral Traffic Act in 1984. The Committee on this Bill was was amended in 1978 to make it more chaired by the hon. Member, Shrimati effective and stringent. Under this amend- Krishna Sahi. She brought out the report ment the definition of both 'Prostitution' .in a short time after touring the country and and 'Brothels' has been widened. Search collecting evidences. This Act was amended witnesses need not now be from the same to make the offence cognizable, to enhance locality. This requirement was one of the the punishment of both fine and imprison- major difficulties in the investigation and ment and to widen the scope of the Act to prosecution of such caces. Special emphasis make it more effective. was laid on the provision of rahabilitation services for the prostitutes. Inspectors of The Amended Act of 1984 has defined police. are now authorised to investigate dowry by substituting "In connection with cases under this clause. the marriage" for "in consideration of the Now we turn to the main aspects of marriage" because it used to be difficult to education, health and employment about . prove the gifts were given "in considera- which most of the members made very o tion of the marriage" and not "out of love valuab1e suggestions and they have also o and eft'ection". You are all aware that placed certain statistics about which I would :-recently the Supreme Court held in a land- also like to add that some may be modified. o mark judgment that gifts given to a bride at In the field of health life expectancy of the time of marriage and thereafter were her women has gone up from 31.7 years in 1951, -absolute property and the husband or in- 45.6 in 1971 to 55.1 in 1981. The trend of la~s ~ould be prosecuted if ~they refused to declining sex ratio for women has been : part with these items. reversed in 1981, it has actuaIJy gone up . '. The Dowry Prohibition Act will be from 930 in 1971 fo 939 in 1981. To further reviewed from time to time if the improve the health status of Women special circumstances so warrant and other recom- programmes are being implemented to provide lJl~dations of the Joint Committee of the nutrition to them. The infrastructure ~f 339 ])iscussion re : Progress APRIL 24, 1985 and Economic Fieids in 340 of Indian Women in Social. the International Educational, Political Women's Decade child and maternal health services has been following categories : expended both in the urban and in the rural areas by setting up of primary health centres, (i) Landless agricultural labourers; rural family welfare centres and sub-centres. (ii) Marginal farmers holding land not In addition, the Department of Family exceeding one hectare; Welfare has sponsored a number of schemes (iii) Scheduled Castes; for the immunisation of expectant mothers against tetanus and to prevent nutritional (iv) Sheduled Tribes; and anaemia among mothers. (v) Other poor sections of the commu- During 1982-83 alone 39.03 lakh expec- nity with a total monthly income tant mothers were immunised against tetanus. not exceeding Rs. 500 p.m. Similarly, 75.42 lakh women were covered by the Scheme of Prophylaxis against nutri- Women in the age group of 15-45 years tional anaemia; 501.63 lakh women are are given health and nutrition education in getting supplementary nutrition and 309.82 the Anganwadi centres. lakh women are attending functional literacy classes in the various Integrated Child Coming to certain points that have been Development Scheme projects. The ICDS mentioned, apart from what I have said, the projects have also created employment for point raised by Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee, women by way of jobs like Anganwadi about girls in schools, more girls are in school workers, Supervisors and Child Development in 1981 as compared to 1971. As I have Officers. Here, the mothers along with the stated in my statement, the gender gap is children are getting prophylaxis and also decreasing. The main reason for low enrolment non-formal education. of girls in schools is that there is a great demand for female labour in poor households. In the field of employment, the work That is why if mothers are given income participation rate bas risen from 14.15 per generating programmes which we have already cent in 1971 to 19.76 per cent in 1981. taken up through the IRDP and also the Financial assistance is being provided for RLEGP programme we provide work for the training and employment through various women so they will be able to help the schemes of the Central Social Welfare Board family and girls are allowed to get education. under this Ministry and divisions of the They will also be provided supporting services other related Ministries such as the Ministry such as creches, for the women, day-care of Labour, Ministry of Industry, etc. centres etc., so that children of working The Ministry of Social and Women's women can be left in those centres and the Welfare has started a programme in 1982-83 girls of those ladies can go to schools. to assist the projects sponsored by public Our Prime Minister in the new Govern- undertakings/corporations and autonomous ment has allowed the girls . to have free bodies for setting up traming-cum-employ- education up to the Higher Secondary stage. ment-cum production units, which benefit This sort of supportive services will anable the women. the girls to go to schools and prosecute their There are certain other programmes studies. Our Ministry will, therefore, empha- Which will benefit the women, through the sise the importance of supportive services. ICDS programmes. And they provide, mainly, The Central Social Welfare Board is impl... . as I mentioned, immunisation to children, menting schemes of creches~ balwadis and health check-up to mothers etc. The mothers day care centres. Education Ministrl has will be given supplementary nutrition and special schemes in educationally backward also non-formal education. States to increase girls' enrolment in SCbooJ&. All pregnant and nursing mothers within About lack of equal wages in agriculture, the ICDS project areas are eligible ·for the Labour Ministry is proposing to sot up • iIomunisation against tetanus, health check- separate enforcement machinery for maternity up, referral services and health and nutrition and various other labour laws in tbe ft· ~ducation. Besides, supplementary nutrition organised sector. Since most of the women at~ Is also aiven to women belongina to the not taken in the organised sector tbq art Ml Discuss/on re: Propess VAISAKHA 4,1907 (SAU) and £Conomle Fields In ~l ofIndian Women in Social, tlte International Educational. Political Women's Decade being denied the maternity benefits and hostels have been asked to have day care certain other supportive services for the centres also in the same building so that we children. can economise and also provide at the same place facilities for other working women who Mrs. Vidyawati Chaturvedi mentioned can leave children in the day care centres . about employment of women in rural areas. before they return home. Rs. 219 lakhs have Khadi and Village Industries absorb a very· been spent for tbat. high number of women. Figures for 1981-82 reveal that 45 per cent of the total employ- If there are any other points left, tbe ment in this sector goes to women. 14.59 Demands of tbe Ministry are also coming for )akhs of women are employed in this sector. discussion shortly. Then I will be able to cover all of them. Regarding obscene advertisements. we are equally concerned about it. Our Ministry MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : The House took up the matter with the Ministry of is now adjourned to meet tomorrow at Information and Broadcasting. In two cases 11 A.M. the advertisements in which woman was shown as sex objects were withdrawn. 21.10 brl. The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Regarding Working Women's hostels, on Eleven of the Clock on Thursday, date we have given assistance for 34 working April 25, 1985/Va;sakha 5, 1907 women's hostels and nearly 22151 inmates (Saka) are to be housed in these hostels. These ChowdhW}' Mudren Kendra, Delbi-~3