The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project AMBASSADOR FREDERICK IRVING Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: February 7th, 2013 Copyright 201 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background Born and raised in Rhode sland US Air Force, WW Prisoner of War experience Rehabilitation and repatriation Life on public welfare Brown University) Tufts (Fletcher) University ,arriage Washington, DC. Bureau of the Budget) /unior 0conomist 123451251 President Truman7s memoranda specifications State Department. Western 0uropean Bureau. Office of the 125151252 0xecutive Director 9ienna, Austria. Deputy Director, Office of Administration 125251253 Ambassador Llewellyn Thompson State Department. Deputy 0xecutive Director, Office of :erman 125351257 and Austrian Affairs State Department. Director, Office of the Budget 125751252 Loy Henderson Douglas Dillon State Department. Bureau of Political5,ilitary Affairs Process of organizing bureau /ean Tarter National War College 125251240 Loy Henderson Use of nuclear weapons in future wars 1 Wellington, New Zealand. 0conomic Officer 124051242 0nvironment Surplus butter State Department. Deputy 0xecutive Director, Bureau of 124251243 0ducation and Cultural Affairs Lucius Battle Staff Tom Stern State Department. Special Assistant to the Deputy Under Secretary 124351245 for Administration State Department. 0xecutive Director, Bureau of 0uropean Affairs 124551247 Congressman Boggs7 demand President /ohnson 9ienna, Austria. Deputy Chief of ,ission 124751248 State Department. Deputy Assistant Secretary for Operations 124851242 State Department. Deputy Assistant Secretary for 0ducation 124251272 and Cultural Affairs Senator7s daughter job seeker American Council of Aoung Political Leaders :rievance Committee United States Ambassador to celand 127251274 President Nixon NATO Base negotiations Wife7s activities celandic language Remur poetry Nixon5Pompidou meeting 9olcanic eruption lava flow Communist Party Wife7s book. This too is diplomacy Heimaey Admiral 0lmo Zumwalt Soviet nuclear submarines Personal presidential authority People7s Alliance 0mbassy staff and morale Cambodia bombing United Nations Fishing Limits resolution 2 Assistant Secretary of State for 0nvironmental and Scientific 127451277 Affairs (Oceans and Science Affairs) Shirley Temple Black Ping5Pong diplomacy (China) Relations with Congress Senator 0llender Ben Hechler Senator Fulbright Law of the Sea Fishing limits South Africa nuclear material sale United States Ambassador to /amaica 127751278 Castro influence Harvard University ,ichael ,anley Peace Corps 0nvironment Dead bodies on doorstep US business community Security Wife7s activities Castro ,arijuana Ambassador de Roulet Confirmation hearings Political Parties Seaga Aacht Club Local CmafiaD chiefs Anti5Americanism Castro Phone tapping Consular Section problems /oint USE/amaican business group Brzezinski President Carter /ailed American tourists Resignation Harvard University. Assistant Dean) Director, Career Development 12785 and Foreign Student Advisor Dean :raham Allison Rules and Regulations American Council of Aoung Political Leaders Resignation 3 9olunteer work for the elderly Retirement home Additional comments 9oucher payment problems Foreign Service wives ,ichael ,anley7s ambassador preferences ,anley7s views of Castro ADD0NDU, The World War Prisoner5 of5 War 0xperience The Cat Whose Hair Did Not Turn Blue INTERVIEW $: Today is the 7th of February, 2013 and this is an interview with Frederick Irving. And this is being done on behalf of the Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training and I*m Charles Stuart Kennedy. R9 N:. Aes. $: All right? ,ell, let*s -- when and where were you born? R9 N:. 1221, ,ay 2nd, 1221. $: And where? R9 N:. Providence, Rhode sland. $: All right. ,ell, let*s start on your father*s side. ,hat do you know about the Irving family? R9 N:. Not much because he died when was four5years5old. Left my mother as a widow with six children. was the youngest. He died of a ruptured appendicitis, misdiagnosed. ,y mother was 32 at the time. We had to live on welfare for a while. $: ,ell, what was your father doing, do you know? R9 N:. Aes, he was a tailor. $: All right. And do you know where his family came from? 4 R9 N:. Aes, Bessarabia. t7s now called ,oldova. $: ,as he part of that -- sort of the great e.odus of Jewish families from Eastern Europe and Russia? R9 N:. No. But why would you automatically assume he was /ewishH What has that got to do with my diplomatic accomplishmentsH know in the early days it limited my overseas assignments 55 could not be assigned to an Arab country. $: ,ell, I try to find out everything I can about where people came from. 2ut if you don*t want to talk about it, there*s no -- R9 N:. Oh no, just think it7s an improper Iuestion, but 7m not ashamed of the fact that he may have been /ewish. would like to know why would you automatically decide that he or was /ewish. n your mind, is /udaism a nationality or a religionH think of it as a religion. When was a teenager converted to Unitarianism. Actually, if you want to be exact, he came to the United States alone, at age 15, was told. ,y father was given the name C rvingD by the immigration people on board ship. was told that a Scottish couple named C rvingD took care of him, the immigration people thought he was their son. $: ,ell, there*s no -- actually a great number of our group who came in the Foreign Service came from that various e.odus. My family came from sheep farmers who were kicked out of Scotland. I mean, you know, all of us -- most of us came to the 4nited States got the hell out of the way from Europe from one reason or another. R9 N:. Aes, but have no idea what brought him to the United States. $: It must have been rough when you think about it. ,hat about -- do you know anything about the background of your mother*s family? R9 N:. ,y mother was /ewish, who came from Russia at age nine, with her family who were /ewish. That7s about all know. $: 5ou grew up in Providence? R9 N:. Aes, did. $: ,hat was Providence like when you recall it when you were pretty young? R9 N:. t was a city of a couple hundred thousand people. t was just an ordinary city, the capital of Rhode sland. But it was known as the capital of costume jewelry manufacture. 5 $: How did your mother get by in her widowhood? R9 N:. Well, as say, we had to go on to welfare, which at that time was considered a disgrace. But all six of us children, five boys and one girl, started working at an early age. ,y first job was at six5years5old at a grocery store, pealing the outer skins from sacks of onions. was paid 25 cents an hour. When was of high school age went to Providence Classical High School. graduated summa cum laude. ,et my wife there when we were both sophomores. We were both in the honors group. 0ventually we got married. We were married for 43 years when she died. $: 8h boy. R9 N:. Three years ago tomorrow. February 8, 2010 is the third anniversary of her death. She died of a sudden heart attack. $: ,ell now, as a boy in school, were you much of a reader? R9 N:. Aes, as a matter fact, was a fencer on the fencing team. Usually if they had some committee or other like the prom committee or who knows what, was always chosen to be on it. And would say was held in high regard then. held an outside job while attending high school. 25 hours a week. Providence Classical was a very hard school with lot of homework, three hours a day. But managed to make it. the went to Brown University, where had an outside job of 30 hours a week. $: ,hat sort of work were you doing? R9 N:. worked in a drugstore as a soda jerker during high school. Aou know what that isH At college worked at the Hope Club, near Brown. $: 8h yes9 R9 N:. Then when the war broke out had just one semester to go, but all five of us boys volunteered to go into the war. volunteered for the Air Force. The Air Force recruiter came to me and said, CThe Air Force is very short of navigators,D and if would agree to become a navigator they7ll let me take my last semester7s college if also accelerated and went in the summer. Since did want to get my degree, agreed. $: ,ere you good at mathematics? R9 N:. Aes. was exceptionally good in mathematics. n fact, Brown University said they would promise me a fellowship if would major in math. But saw no future in math. That shows you how shortsighted was at that time. majored in political science. Because thought 7d like to go overseas and maybe go in the diplomatic service. So accepted the Air Force offer of being a navigator. Because at that time they wanted navigators to be college graduates. 6 $: ,hat year did you go into the Air Force? R9 N:. Well, went into the reserves in 1232 and then went into active duty on ,arch 7th, 1233 as an aviation cadet. $: ,here did you take your officer training? R9 N:. First as an aviation cadet in Nashville, Tennessee. Then had to take all sorts of Iualifying exams. Iualified to be pilot, navigator, and bombardier. So they said well, agreed to be a navigator 55 will still honor that. said yes, indeed. So got officer training at the navigation school at ,onroe, Louisiana. $: ,hat type of planes were you -- did you start on? R9 N:. B523, heavy bombers. $: The Liberator. R9 N:. That7s right. $: Did you get assigned to a plane there, or was that later on? R9 N:. No, after finished navigation school, which was a 125week course, navigators also had to be Iualified as aerial gunners. was then sent to Ft.