LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 13567

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Wednesday, 4 July 2018

The Council met at Eleven o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG

THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

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THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG

THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG

DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN

THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN

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DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.

IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN

THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG

THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN

DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING

THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING

THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN

THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN

DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN

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THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI

THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU

THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO

THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI

THE HONOURABLE AU NOK-HIN

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S.

MEMBERS ABSENT:

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN

PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI

THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK

THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG

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PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION

THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., M.H., J.P. FINANCIAL SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE MS TERESA CHENG YEUK-WAH, G.B.S., S.C., J.P. SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE

THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

THE HONOURABLE NICHOLAS W. YANG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY

THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

THE HONOURABLE JAMES HENRY LAU JR., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY

MR CASPAR TSUI YING-WAI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE, AND SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE

THE HONOURABLE JOSHUA LAW CHI-KONG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE

THE HONOURABLE JOHN LEE KA-CHIU, S.B.S., P.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY

THE HONOURABLE FRANK CHAN FAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING

PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH

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DR BERNARD CHAN PAK-LI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION

THE HONOURABLE PATRICK NIP TAK-KUEN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS

MR LIU CHUN-SAN, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

CLERK IN ATTENDANCE:

MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL

THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE TO ATTEND THIS MEETING UNDER RULE 8 OF THE RULES OF PROCEDURE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS.

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THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE'S QUESTION TIME

PRESIDENT (in ): Members will please remain standing while the Chief Executive enters the Chamber.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive's Question Time.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members who wish to ask questions please press the "Request to speak" button.

Each Member will be given 3 minutes to ask questions and receive replies from the Chief Executive, and the time for a Member to ask a question should not exceed 1.5 minutes. When reaching 3 minutes, the timer will ring as a reminder. In order to allow more Members to ask questions, the Question Time should be conducted in a "short question, short answer" format.

MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, people are most concerned about the land and housing policies. As a show of the Government's resolve in addressing the problem, you announced some time ago six new initiatives on housing. However, this type of initiatives, regardless of which is taken, is actually of little help in containing property prices, a fact that you, Chief Executive, also have recognized. At the end of the day, to make inexpensive bread, it takes flour that is not only adequate in supply but also priced inexpensively. And the availability of inexpensive "flour" in fact hinges on none other than the levelling of mountains and reclamation on a significant scale in creating more land. This is simply inevitable.

Chief Executive, you also mentioned that the issue of reclamation would be discussed in the Policy Address. The Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong supports reclamation outside the Victoria Harbour. Apart from reclamation, Chief Executive, there is this analysis suggesting that releasing a mere 0.1% of the Green Belt sites would be enough for the construction of 7 500 residential units.

Chief Executive, I am aware that the deployment of sites in the Green Belt or country parks will arouse controversies. However, if the development of 2% to 3% of sites in the Green Belt or on the periphery of country parks are 13574 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 designated for the sole purpose of constructing public housing and facilities for the community and the elderly, such as public rental housing, as well as units under the Green Form Subsidised Home Ownership Scheme, "Starter Homes" Scheme for Hong Kong Residents and the Home Ownership Scheme, which give people on the waiting list of subsidized housing hope of secure housing, will you, Chief Executive, consider this proposal? And what is your view on that?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Ms Starry LEE for her question. As a matter of fact, following the announcement of new initiatives on housing, we have heard more views similar to those raised by Ms Starry LEE just now. Everyone asked whether a consensus can be reached since there is now a case for increasing land supply following the introduction of the new initiatives on housing which make property prices (meaning prices of Government-subsidized housing) affordable. Indeed, the Task Force on Land Supply ("the Task Force") is still working on this.

I wish to take this opportunity to clarify that I am not saying reclamation is the only option. But in terms of providing adequate supply of land for Hong Kong in the long term, reclamation seems to be an inevitable―albeit not the only―option. As for the other options proposed by the Task Force, some of them, especially the short-term options, can also be adopted.

The percentage suggested by Ms Starry LEE just now is very much worth our pondering. As a matter of fact, in explaining the situation of land in Hong Kong to foreigners, I often point out the fact that developed land accounts for only 24% of the total 1 100 sq km of land in Hong Kong, of which only 7% is used for residential purposes. Hence, if we can really vacate 1% to 2% of the land, the area will be quite vast. However, there must be a certain consensus in the community. So I hope in the coming two to three months, members of the community can focus their discussion on the land supply of Hong Kong based on the Government's newly proposed initiatives on housing policy.

MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, I think Hong Kong people will be supportive if those sites in country parks or the Green Belt are used solely for the construction of subsidized housing. I hope you can consider it.

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MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, the Hong Kong--Macao Bridge ("HZMB") will be commissioned shortly. We certainly welcome such an infrastructure project, but there indeed remain some problems in respect of ancillary facilities and works that need to be resolved, including the recent incident of water leakage. In terms of ancillary facilities, as I have repeatedly pointed out, given the certainty of an increase in people and passenger flows, apart from the North Lantau or the , services of the Line operated by the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL") should also be beefed up as well. In light of the fact that the train frequency of the during peak hours is still low at the moment, I hope the Government can instruct MTRCL to increase the train frequency in response to the commissioning of HZMB.

Moreover, the Hong Kong Port of HZMB provides only 650 parking spaces, which are not sufficient, as I have repeatedly highlighted. In the future, local motorists who need to park their vehicles at the Hong Kong Port but fail to find a parking space may look for one in Tung Chung on instead, ultimately overwhelming the transport facilities there. In this connection, I hope the Government will genuinely listen to the voice of the public, addressing the issue of ancillary facilities of HZMB seriously and properly.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHOW for raising the issue of work on ancillary facilities in respect of the commissioning of the major cross-boundary infrastructure of HZMB. As a matter of fact, issues relating to, among others, the ancillary facilities in respect of the commissioning of HZMB were elevated to a higher level a few months ago, with the Chief Secretary for Administration taking the lead in dealing with those issues at my invitation and myself keeping a constant interest in the matter. There are indeed a few problems at the moment. First, in terms of design, parking spaces are certainly insufficient. The shortage of our parking spaces is particularly stark compared with the supply in Zhuhai and Macao. To this end, we must make every effort to increase the supply of parking spaces at the Hong Kong Port on the artificial island in the short, medium and long terms. Secondly, there is a bit of a mismatch in timing. While the North Lantau Highway is currently the only passage to HZMB, there will be another link available once the - Link ("TM-CLKL") is completed. Members who have visited the site there would know that one part of TM-CLKL connects to Tuen Mun and the other to Lantau Island, which means there will be another link to HZMB to 13576 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 forestall the possibility of traffic congestion in the Tung Chung New Town and the airport. However, a delay in that project has resulted in a time lag. That being the case, we will think up relief measures in terms of ancillary transport facilities, including the train frequency issue of the Tung Chung Line raised by Mr CHOW just now.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Holden CHOW, do you wish to ask a supplementary question?

MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): President, I thank the Chief Executive for her reply. While I agree with what she said, I wish mostly to point out the fact that there are only 650 parking spaces on the Hong Kong side, falling well short of those offered by Zhuhai and Macao, which are providing them in the thousands … (The buzzer sounded)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Holden CHOW, please stop asking your question.

MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, the six initiatives rolled out by you last week have sparked extensive discussions in the community. You have also declared your support for reclamation outside the Victoria Harbour, a move that shows, to me, both sense and commitment. That said, reclamation is basically not something that can be undertaken right away. To mitigate our immediate problems, the Government must try every means to increase housing supply in the urban areas. There are actually many old public housing estates in the urban areas, where buildings could not be built too tall due to various reasons in the past. But the situation has now changed and the Business and Professionals Alliance for Hong Kong has made repeated requests for expediting the redevelopment of housing estates in the urban areas.

May I ask the Chief Executive whether she will conduct a study on expediting the redevelopment of old housing estates in the urban areas and relaxing the plot ratios of urban sites with a view to releasing more urban sites and increasing housing supply?

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): In respect of this question from Mr Jeffrey LAM, we are considering every option for the major purpose of boosting housing construction. These options include urban renewal or redevelopment of housing estates, which were regarded as difficult in the past. I will also strive to see if we can come up with solutions through an innovative mindset.

The redevelopment of old housing estates falls under the purview of the Hong Kong Housing Society ("HKHS"). Members may recall that buildings in the vicinity of the former Kai Tak Airport were all low-rise. The relocation of the Airport has set the City District free, and some old housing estates of HKHS there have potential for redevelopment. However, due to the absence of another site for the construction of new buildings to rehouse tenants, redevelopment has run into problems for years.

In respect of this issue, I stated last week that I was most willing to convert nine plots from private residential sites to public housing. There is actually much room for discussion on whether units built on these public housing sites should be leased or sold, even though such projects will be the responsibility of the Hong Kong Housing Authority or HKHS. Hence, I told the Chairman of HKHS over a meeting a few days ago that we were most willing to discuss with them and offer support to see whether we can facilitate the redevelopment of some old HKHS housing estates, with a view to increasing the supply of urban housing units on the one hand and improving the living conditions of residents in old HKHS housing estates on the other.

MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, residents will be more receptive if the redevelopment of an old housing estate starts with sites of car parks or sporting and leisure facilities. Given a higher plot ratio, new buildings on those sites will be available for rehousing of residents of the old estate, enabling them to be rehoused in the same locality. I hope the Government can actively consider our suggestion.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Mr LAM for his suggestion.

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DR CHIANG LAI-WAN (in Cantonese): President, last time when the problem of the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL") of having shortened steel reinforcement bars in the Hung Hom Station of the Shatin to Central Link ("SCL") was exposed, the Government promptly announced the establishment of an independent commission of inquiry, adding that a report would possibly be delivered within six months. Later, however, another problem appeared in the To Kwa Wan Station with a layer of steel reinforcement bars in a structural wall being removed, but the Government did not set up a commission of inquiry in respect of this problem. We would like to hear the Chief Executive's view. Why is no commission of inquiry set up in respect of this matter?

Besides, the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong wrote to the Chief Executive last week, making four requests regarding the problems of SCL, including expanding the terms of reference of the commission of inquiry, expeditiously identifying the systematic problems, finding out the truth and responsibilities of various parties, as well as holding the management concerned accountable. May I know how the Chief Executive will respond to this?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Dr CHIANG for her question. Before all else, I wish to state clearly that the Special Administrative Region ("SAR") Government gives top priority to safety of infrastructural works in Hong Kong. For this reason, to ensure safety of infrastructure, not only the design but also the whole execution and supervision of works should be prudent. The SAR Government attaches great importance to the recent extensive news coverage of and concerns aroused by the works of the diaphragm wall and platform slab involved in the extension of the Hung Hom Station. Hence, as Dr CHIANG said, I announced straight away that the Commissions of Inquiry Ordinance would be invoked to set up a statutory Commission of Inquiry, and lost no time in inviting Mr Justice Michael John HARTMANN to be its Chairman.

Here I report to Members that over the past two weeks, we have made great efforts to search for a suitable candidate to serve as the second member of the Commission of Inquiry. I am pleased to tell Members that we have found one. Hence, we will ask the Executive Council to approve the establishment of the Commission of Inquiry as soon as possible. Why did it take so long to search for the candidate? Because it was really not easy to find a professional in the engineering sector who was absolutely not involved in any works in Hong Kong, had never served as a consultant and had no connection with MTRCL. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 13579

As regards the other stations of SCL, such as the To Kwa Wan Station and the Exhibition Centre Station, we are certainly aware of the reports about some problems having emerged. But I hope Members will understand that we also need to consider the nature of the problems of the works reported. Regarding the other two stations, I know the Secretary for Transport and Housing is most willing to report at the upcoming meeting of the Subcommittee on Matters Relating to Railways what has actually happened. But I can add a point here. Although the establishment of the independent statutory Commission of Inquiry was triggered by the Hung Hom Station of SCL, its terms of reference include reviewing the overall project management, supervision, quality assurance and quality control by MTRCL. Moreover, it will further review the monitoring and regulatory mechanism of the Government.

DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, a number of married couples have relayed to me that both of them have stable jobs and incomes. With a total monthly income of about $50,000 to $60,000, they can afford regular mortgage repayments. But since the Hong Kong Monetary Authority has restricted the loan-to-value ("LTV") ratio, their savings are insufficient to make the downpayment for buying a property no matter how hard they have tried to make savings. They watch the property prices keep rising, and their plan of home acquisition hinges on the downpayment. So they are considering whether they should buy a "nano flat" against their wish. Otherwise they will have to give up home acquisition. There are indeed many families in Hong Kong who can afford regular mortgage repayments but cannot save enough money for the downpayment. Hence, may I ask the Chief Executive whether the SAR Government will consider relaxing the restrictions on the LTV ratio or mortgage insurance, or whether there is any other way to help them realize their dream of home ownership?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Among the new initiatives in the housing policy announced by me last week, the "Starter Homes" for Hong Kong residents precisely highlights this issue. The targets of Starter Homes are members of the public who have an income higher than the prevailing income limit for applicants for Home Ownership Scheme units, that means a monthly income not exceeding HK$57,000 for a two-person household. Moreover, there is another problem for these households, namely the problem of mortgage as mentioned by Dr QUAT 13580 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 just now. The LTV ratio is relatively low presently because we need to assure the stability of the banking and financial systems. This causes some people who can afford regular mortgage repayments difficulties in home acquisition owing to their inability to make the down payment. For this reason, in the design of Starter Homes, apart from pricing as mentioned earlier, the Hong Kong Mortgage Corporation will offer a guarantee, enabling purchasers of Starter Homes to secure a mortgage loan of at least 90% of the property price. The prevalent problem is about properties which are not Starter Homes or within any system of subsidized sale flats of the Government. If the LTV ratio is adjusted or relaxed, as we have heard the Financial Secretary say quite a number of times, he is worried that such an act will lead to the counter-effect of adding fuel to fire on property prices which are soaring drastically nowadays, thus making it even more difficult for members of the public to purchase properties in the market. For this reason, we must examine this issue very carefully. Here I can only say that the Financial Secretary will continue to pay close attention to the situation and take action where necessary.

DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, as you know, not every Hongkonger can count on his father to make the down payment, and the six housing initiatives put forward by you are unable to assist this group of people mentioned by you just now in home acquisition. They can only watch the property prices keep rising, since the Government has at the same time reduced the supply of private housing. Consequently, they hold that if the Government does not relax the LTV ratio, they will never be able to purchase any property in their lifetime. Hence, will the future Policy Address bring them any good news?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Dr QUAT, I can only say that land and housing is really our most important concern. Hence, we will try our best to do such work involving land and housing if it can help the public to live in peace and work with contentment. Nevertheless, I need to add one point. The Government has not reduced the supply of private housing. Moreover, no such situation of reducing private housing, so to speak, will arise in the near future. The land we have allocated will be progressively used for the construction of public housing in four years.

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DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, as we all know, Hong Kong now faces the question of how to "make the pie bigger", and one of the options is to set eyes on the Bay Area. I have asked many young people who plan to work in the Bay Area and they said that they are concerned not only about the hardware―Because many people have enthusiastically set up offices there but no one wants to go there―they are all the more concerned about the software.

In this connection, I hope that the Chief Executive will continuously strive for our interests and the first thing is, of course, about the flow of information. Apart from Facebook that we often talk about, actually the people very much hope that they can watch the television programmes of Hong Kong and read the newspapers of Hong Kong there. We often stress that the Bay Area is a "one-hour living circle", and to the people, apart from going there for work, it is most important for them to enjoy living there before they would be willing to go there for work. Besides, will the Government consider adopting a policy similar to that of low-cost housing in Hong Kong in the 1980s to enable young people to easily take out mortgage loans there and buy properties in the Mainland by paying a very low amount of deposit, so that the young families would be willing to go there for development? Will the Government continue to strive for these to our benefit?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Thank you, Dr LEUNG. When I sometimes said on public occasions that the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area would bring unlimited opportunities to Hong Kong, I was very serious in saying it and I did not just say it as a slogan. This is why regarding the many suggestions made by Dr LEUNG now, I would not say that they are not viable, because there are unlimited opportunities in the Bay Area. To achieve success in the Bay Area, there must be creativity and breakthroughs. The Central Authorities are aware of this point. I have said it, too, and so have the Secretary and the Governor of Guangdong Province.

Any goals targeting the Bay Area development put forth by Members or the community, or in other words, aiming to develop a world-class Bay Area with effective flow of people, goods, capital and information in the three tariff zones under "one country, two systems", while making it more convenient for the people of Hong Kong to study, work and live in the Mainland as stressed by President XI Jinping on 1 July last year, will also be our goals.

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Therefore, I will not respond to Dr LEUNG's suggestions one by one. I believe Dr LEUNG has other suggestions apart from those made by her just now. I would suggest that her proposals or those made by Members be passed to us and after summarizing and collating them, I would definitely lobby support from the Central Authorities and I will personally put forward to the Central Authorities these measures for facilitating the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Bay Area.

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, now the Government has expressed its stance that reclamation will serve as the main source of land supply. Although it is a "late spring", I render it my strong support because this is a demonstration of commitment. A member of the Task Force on Land Supply has told me that land is like flour, and housing, bread. Now it will take eight to ten years to turn flour into bread. He considers this bread making machine out of order. Now in respect of the reclamation proposal, it is necessary to first conduct a feasibility study, planning and public consultation, followed by the procedures of the Town Planning Board and then applications to the Finance Committee for funding, plus the assumption that the incumbent Chairman of the Finance Committee can successfully cut off filibusters. Only then can the Government commence the works. May I ask the Government whether it will conduct a study on compressing the relevant procedures, with a view to increasing the housing supply as soon as possible?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, I believe Mr CHAN Kin-por has raised this question to seek my compliment to him in passing. As a matter of fact, it can be said that it has been a fruitful year for the Finance Committee in the 2017-2018 legislative session. Certainly, I think not only the President but also Members of various political parties and groupings who are present have indeed shown mutual understanding and mutual accommodation. After meeting with various political parties and groupings in March, I said I hoped we could break the record of the past five years with approval for project funding amounting to $170 billion this year. Now we are already close to this target. I am thus very grateful to the Chairman of the Finance Committee and various Members for their effort. Certainly, the Public Works Subcommittee chaired by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok is also included.

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How to compress the timetable for development in Hong Kong is a question which plagues us from time to time, since we have to strike a balance among the views in society. When society becomes increasingly democratic and encourages more public discussion, engagement with members of the public and collection of views will inevitably slow down the pace of development. For this reason, I always see the need to strike a balance. If we refuse to listen to any view and make every decision on our own, I believe the relevant proposal cannot be passed, and it will not be supported by the Legislative Council either. Hence, as in the past, we wish to give society the opportunity of public discussion and then submit the relevant proposal to the Legislative Council. We hope the Legislative Council will hear the people's voices, too.

Having said that, some procedures can indeed be reviewed afresh to examine if there is any room for consolidation and compression. I noticed that while announcing the land sale yesterday, the Secretary for Development also took the initiative to mention that a team led by the Permanent Secretary in the Development Bureau is now overseeing the three departments responsible for housing development, namely, the Planning Department, the Lands Department and the Buildings Department. It is exploring ways of consolidating the three types of systems as far as possible to streamline the procedures for housing development and compress the time needed. Such work is going on.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Kin-por, do you need to ask a supplementary question?

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): President, just a brief point. Apart from seeking the Chief Executive's compliment to various political parties and groupings for supporting the Chairman of the Finance Committee, thus enabling us to process various applications swiftly, I also hope that the Chief Executive will really be determined to conduct more reclamation and launch the relevant works expeditiously.

MR WONG KWOK-KIN (in Cantonese): President, to meet the requirements for environmental protection and reduction in emissions, Hong Kong has switched to liquefied petroleum gas for power generation, resulting in an 13584 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 increase in cost. To show its care for members of the public, the Government has proposed an electricity charges subsidy to alleviate the pressure caused by the tariff increase on members of the public in the short term. However, people who need our support and care most are actually dwellers of subdivided units. They are not granted any subsidy under this electricity charges subsidy scheme proposed by the Government. May I ask the Chief Executive why the Government did not lend a hand to this group of people who are badly in need of help?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Thank you, Mr WONG. Since Mr WONG mentioned the development plans of the two power companies for the next five years announced by the Secretary for the Environment yesterday, let me reiterate here―because I have also participated in and supervised the entire process for this five-year development plan―this five-year development plan can be described as the most environmentally-friendly and drastic in recent years with the aim of achieving reduction in emissions. We have set the target, striving to reduce the carbon intensity within a certain period of time so that Hong Kong can make a contribution with regard to climate change about which we are gravely concerned.

Yet the work in this aspect, such as changing the fuel mix and building new generator units, will incur capital expenditure. For this reason, a tariff increase in the Scheme of Control Agreements is inevitable. Meanwhile, we have introduced a subsidy scheme. In the past, we would first observe the pressure in society and demands in the Legislative Council before offering any subsidy, but this time the two are carried out in tandem with each other. Basically, the $3,000 subsidy scheme designed by us can offset the cumulative tariff increase over five years for about half of the households in Hong Kong and alleviate the burden of electricity tariffs on them.

However, households who do not have separate electricity meters mentioned by Mr WONG are exactly the ones whom we do not know in what way we can help. Certainly, we can provide them with cash through the Community Care Fund ("CCF"), but as we have heard Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong say, if we merely provide dwellers of subdivided units with cash through CCF, it may cause an instant surge in rentals. I can say that now this electricity charges relief is indeed unable to help households who do not have any LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 13585 electricity meter, but we will continue to explore other methods. Members are welcome to raise any good suggestions in mind. Nevertheless, now the greatest problem faced by dwellers of subdivided units is actually housing, and this brings us back to the problem of land and housing.

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): Mrs LAM, the Shatin to Central Link has 10 stations in total, three of which having been confirmed to have engineering problems and worse still, fraud is involved in the construction works. I understand that a Commission of Inquiry was set up by the Government on 11 June to inquire into the problems at the Hung Hom Station but obviously, engineering problems have also been found at the To Kwa Wan Station and the Exhibition Centre Station one after another, and during the course of works, the Secretary for Transport and Housing as well as the Administration should effectively monitor the safety of works but this project which will put human lives at stake has entirely given cause for grave public concern now, and it also makes people think that the Hong Kong Government is engaged in corruption and depravity even in infrastructure projects.

In this connection, may I ask Mrs LAM if she considers it necessary for Secretary Frank CHAN, being the head of the Transport and Housing Bureau, to take the blame and resign, just as Roxanna WONG did in the incident of substandard piling works in public housing in 2000?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG, with regard to the engineering problems of the Shatin to Central Link that have aroused concern, I made two points in my response earlier. First, we attach the utmost importance to safety and therefore, we have appointed an independent Commission of Inquiry led by a Judge in respect of the Hung Hom Station. While the starting point of the inquiry is the problems with the platform slab at the Hung Hom Station Extension, subject to the approval of the terms of reference by the Executive Council, the terms of reference will include issues mentioned by Dr CHENG just now, such as how MTRCL will carry out monitoring, project management, risk management, etc., and also a review of the execution of works on sites, as well as the monitoring and regulatory systems of the Government. In other words, the work of the Transport and Housing Bureau and the in supervising railway projects will also be reviewed.

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The second point of my reply is that concerning other stations, such as the To Kwa Wan Station and the Exhibition Centre Station brought to our attention today, and as no one can assert if another station will be reported to have problems tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, whenever these problems arise, we will probe into them thoroughly and demand the submission of reports by MTRCL. The reports of MTRCL will be examined by the departments, and after that the departments will give an account to Members. As I told Members in advance just now, the Secretary for Transport and Housing will, at the meeting of the Subcommittee on Matters Relating to Railways to be held later, report to Members MTRCL's report on the To Kwa Wan Station and the Exhibition Centre Station, including the situations that have arisen and the ensuing follow-up work.

If Members have other views on these points of my reply, we will further consider Members' views more actively and look into ways to ensure that these matters relating to the works which are extensively reported or have aroused concern in society can be addressed in a more reasonable way.

MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, last week you told the media that only through reclamation could the land problem in Hong Kong be resolved. You even claimed that rather than waiting for the report to be submitted by the Task Force on Land Supply, you would give an account of a blueprint on future land development in the Policy Address to be delivered in October. This has aroused queries about you trying to override the grand debate being conducted by the Task Force on Land Supply through imposing the will of the leadership on it. However, I wish to tell you that your will of the leadership is detached from the public sentiments. Why am I saying this? Last week, a green group, Green Sense, commissioned the Public Opinion Programme of The University of Hong Kong to conduct an opinion poll, and the findings showed that 30% of the Hongkongers interviewed did not agree that reclamation is a solution to the housing problem of Hong Kong. On the contrary, most respondents considered that the most effective ways to mitigate the housing problem in Hong Kong in a short period of time are firstly, developing brownfield sites in the New Territories, secondly, restricting purchase of residential properties by non-local residents, and thirdly, reducing the number of one-way permits.

In this connection, I have this question for the Chief Executive. The current grand debate on land or the Government's policy direction only deals with supply but not demand, and as Hong Kong is a small place with a dense LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 4 July 2018 13587 population, will you include the population policy as a factor for consideration and set it out as an option for solving the land and housing problem along with restricting purchase of residential properties by non-local residents, developing brownfield sites, reclamation and developing country parks as choices by the public?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, first, I have never said that reclamation is the only option, but if we look at the land supply not only in the present circumstances but also several decades down the line, my view is that reclamation on a large scale is inevitable to achieve land supply in the long term. The development of brownfield sites as mentioned by you is an option. But do not think that it is easy to develop brownfield sites for housing development. I have heard some views that hold that brownfield sites can be made available for housing development so long as economic activities being carried out there are moved elsewhere. But where can I find the land to house those economic activities being carried out currently on brownfield sites? This is the first point.

Second, I hope that the discussion in the community can focus on land supply. I understand that Mr FAN and his supporters have all along advocated that we should deal with the problem in the context of the population policy. If we should deal with it as a matter of the population policy, it is all the more necessary to open up more land because the tallest challenge faced by Hong Kong nowadays is that our population is ageing extremely rapidly. I am not complaining about having too many elderly people. But in fact, the sustainable development of Hong Kong economy requires the support of a certain demographic profile. Moreover, one-way permits are downright a family reunion system. I believe Mr FAN has compassion for other people. How can we stop other people from reuniting with their families?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive's Question Time ends here. After the Chief Executive has left the Chamber, Council will hold its regular meeting immediately.

The Chief Executive will now leave the Chamber. Members will please stand up.

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ADJOURNMENT OF MEETING

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive's Question Time is now ended.

Adjourned accordingly at 11:33 am.