Third Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba

DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS

Official Report (Hansard)

Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker

Vol. LII No. 64- 1:30 p.m., Monday, July 15, 2002 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature

Member Constituency Political Affiliation

AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT,Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI,Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FRIESEN,Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD,Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN,Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU,Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN,John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE,Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY,Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEV AKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER,Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Ross mere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH,Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 3325

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, July 15, 2002

The House met at 1 :30 p.m. THAT this decision was not preceded by adequate public consultation as outlined in sec­ PRAYERS tion 7 of The Public Schools Act; and

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS THAT this decision would result in signifi­ cant hardships for the students in both Transcona PRESENTING PETITIONS and Springfield that would affect the quality of their education; and Transcona-Springfield School Division THAT the proposal by the Minister of Edu­ Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, I cation on February 12, 2002, neither alleviates beg to present the petition of Ashton Raitt, nor remedies these hardships; and Connie Bredin, Cheryl Bredin and others praying that the Legislative Assembly of Mani­ THAT this decision results in an increased toba request the Minister of Education (Mr. financial burden on the taxpayers of both the Caldwell) to reverse the decision to split the Transcona-Springfield School Division and the Transcona-Springfield School Division and province of Manitoba; and allow it to remain as a whole or to consider immediately convening the Board of Reference THAT on March 13, 2002, the number of to decide the matter. resident electors required by The Public Schools Act requested the Minister of Education to con­ READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS vene a Board of Reference to decide the matter.

Transcona-Springfield School Division WHEREFORE YOUR PETITIONERS HUMBLY PRAY THAT the Legislative Assem­ Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for bly request the Minister of Education to reverse Springfield (Mr. Schuler), I have reviewed the the decision to split the Transcona-Springfield petition and it complies with the rules and prac­ School Division and allow it to remain as a tices of the House. Is it the will of the House to whole or to consider immediately convening the have the petition read? Board of Reference to decide the matter.

An Honourable Member: Yes. PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Mr. Speaker: The Clerk please read. Standing Committee on Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): The peti­ Privileges and Elections tion of the undersigned citizens of the province Third Report of Manitoba humbly sheweth Mr. Conrad Santos (Chairperson): Mr. THAT on November 8, 2001, the Minister Speaker, I beg to present the Third Report of the of Education (Mr. Caldwell) announced a split in Committee on Privileges and Elections. the Transcona-Springfield School Division but despite repeated requests has been unable to Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your identify any benefits of this decision to the stu­ Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections dents and taxpayers of said school division; and presents the following as its Third Report. 3326 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

An Honourable Member: Dispense. Your committee agreed to report this bill without amendment. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Mr. Santos: I move, seconded by the honour­ Meetings: able Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), that the report of the committee be received. Your committee met on Wednesday , July 10 , 2002 , at 6:3 0p .m. in Room 255 of the Legis­ Motion agreed to. lative Building.

TABLING OF REPORTS Matters Under Consideration: Bill 9-The Canadian Forces Personnel (A mend­ Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister charged ments Relating to Voting Rights and Driving with the administration of The Manitoba Privileges) Act!Loi sur le personnel des Forces Public Insurance Corporation Act): I am canadiennes (modifications relatives au droit de pleased to table the Quarterly Financial Report vote et aux privileges rattaches a Ia conduite des of Manitoba Public Insurance for the three w}hicules) months ended May 31, 2002.

Committee Membership: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Substitutions received prior to commencement of Dakota Tipi First Nation meeting: Women's Concerns Hon. Ms. Ba"ettfor Mr. Dewar Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. Ms. Asper fo r Mr. Nevakshonoff Speaker, my colleagues and I recently had the Ms. Korzeniowskifo r Mr. Aglugub opportunity to meet with women from Dakota Mr. Rondeau fo r Hon. Mr. Smith (B randon Tipi First Nation, accompanied by the Provincial West) Council of Women of Manitoba, who shared Mrs. Mitchelson fo r Mr. Loewen with us issues regarding financial accountability Mr. Hawranikfor Mr. Penner (E merson) and transparency of gaming revenues, gasoline Mr. Laurendeau fo r Mr. Tweed tax, cigarette tax, as well as issues of safety and security for women and children. Public Presentations: * (13:35) Your committee heard two presentations on Bill 9-The Canadian Forces Personnel (A mend­ Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister ments Relating to Voting Rights and Driving responsible for the Status of Women. I know she Privileges) Act!Loi sur le personnel des Forces was looking to set up a meeting with these canadiennes (modifications relatives au droit de women. Has she set that meeting up and could vote et aux privileges rattaches a Ia conduite des she confirm for us today what day that would vehicules) , from the fo llowing individuals and/or be? organizations: Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): As the member Colonel Doug Mc Lennan, Department of opposite knows, she wrote to me. I have written National Defence to her saying we are setting up a meeting. My Nicole Johnson, Private Citizen office was in touch with women from Dakota Tipi this morning. There was a conflict of a date Bills Considered and Reported: with one of my staff members. I will let the Bill 9-The Canadian Forces Personnel (A mend­ member know what the date is once it has been ments Relating to Voting Rights and Driving determined. Privileges) Act/Loi sur le personnel des Forces canadiennes (modifications relatives au droit de Mrs. Mitchelson: Yes, I know the minister was vote et aux privileges rattaches a Ia conduite des looking at a date fo r a meeting. Since the vehicules) Premier (Mr. Doer) and the Government of July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3327

Manitoba have known about the issues and Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal concerns raised by the Provincial Council of and Northern Affairs): As the member knows, Women since April 15 and we have not seen any the issue on Dakota Tipi is quite complex. There action, will the minister now today indicate to us are different factions in the community. I would what course of action she might be taking on venture to say there are at least four factions in behalf of the women of Dakota Tipi when she the community I am aware of that are in support meets with them? of the current chief.

Ms. McGifford: I thank the member for the It is really difficult for us. We want the question, Mr. Speaker. As I have indicated I will matter to be settled. We want the people to live be meeting with the women. I need to first hear in safety and in comfort for their families in the what the women have to say to me. community of Dakota Tipi. We have no alter­ native but to recognize the current chief and The member has written to me. I would pre­ council as they exist, and that is Chief Dennis fer to operate on first-hand information, and I Pashe and the current council that exists in the will be meeting with the women. community.

With reference to the legislation tabled by Mrs. Mitchelson: The information has been on the honourable Minister of Indian Affairs, I will the minister's desk since April 15 when it was talk about that to some degree as well, given the considered an urgent matter by the Provincial opportunity, but to answer the question directed Council of Women. Can the minister indicate to me by the member I would have to say what communication, what discussions she has currently we have no alternativebut to recognize had with her colleagues and what information or the elected chief until such time as there is an course of action she and her Government will be election for a new chief and council. taking and announcing to the women of Dakota Tipi? Dakota Tipi First Nation Gaming Revenues Ms. McGifford: For the third time, Mr. Speaker, I will be meeting with the women and I Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr. Speaker, will let the member know when that meeting is the federal government has brought in third­ to take place. party management to manage the affairs on the Dakota Tipi First Nation near Portage la Prairie. Dakota Tipi First Nation Until an election is held and despite the federal Chief and Band Council government's actions, this Government, the Doer government, still allows the chief, Dennis Pashe, Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. to have total access and control over all lottery Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Abori­ revenue from the VLTs on Dakota Tipi. ginal and Northern Affairs. Can the Minister responsible for Lotteries On April 1 of this year the federal Minister indicate if she has considered appointing a third of Indian Affairs, the Honourable Robert Nault, party to manage the VLTs and other gambling invoked section 74. (1) of the Indian Act and activities on Dakota Tipi, given the federal gov­ called for an election to be held at the Dakota ernment put in third-party managers on April 1 Tipi First Nation. Until the election for a chief of this year? and council is conducted, Minister Nault put third-party managers in place to manage medical Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister charged services and INAC affairs on the First Nation. with tbe administration of The Manitoba Lot­ teries Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, the Can the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern member probably knows that Manitoba Lot­ Affairs indicate whom he currently recognizes as teries' relationship with the First Nation is that it the chief and band council of Dakota Tipi First is basically responsible for the integrity of the Nation? gaming, and I understand there is not a question 3328 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002 with regard to the integrity of the gaming, so I Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal put that answer forward. and Northern Affairs): Well, Mr. Speaker, to the best of my understanding, the third-party I understand the community's arrangement is management of the community is occurring on with the community's gaming commission. It all other business. With respect to the communi­ was established under the previous government ty, this is a very complex issue. With respect to by Order-in-Council in 1994. By this arrange­ the gaming initiatives in the community and the ment, 90 percent of revenues remain in the gas bar operation, that, too, is a separate issue. communities and 10 percent is retained by MLC That has gone under third-party management as to cover their expenses. well.

* (13:40) On the bigger picture, with the other aspects of the band's business, that indeed has been dealt Mr. Speaker, MLC does not determine, nor with by the Department of Indian Affairs and a should we determine, how the band should third-party manager has been appointed. On the spend their revenues. This is the responsibility of other hand, it is within the legal realm of the the chief and council. current chief and council to appoint their own third-party manager on the gas bar and on the Mr. Reimer: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister gaming initiatives in the community. So it is a for that answer, but can the Minister of Lotteries touchy issue, and it is an issue we are all trying indicate if she will be following the recom­ to understand. mendations provided to her on April 15 by the Provincial Council of Women of Manitoba, Dakota Tipi First Nation which asked this Government to, and I quote, Debt Management place all gaming revenues which may be at risk in a trust fund until the new leadership is Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): installed? Mr. Speaker, there are at least 18 Portage Ia Prairie small businesses that are owed tens of Ms. McGifford: Mr. Speaker, as I just told the thousands of dollars by Dakota Tipi, and these member, our arrangement is with the gaming debts were incurred prior to third-party manage­ commission, an arrangement that was estab­ ment being introduced by the federal gov­ lished by the previous government. I pointed out ernment. that 90 percent of the earnings stay in the community and 10 percent are returned to MLC I would like to table a letter this afternoon to cover the costs of managing. Our arrangement for perusal of the Minister responsible for Abori­ is with the commission, and, no, this is the ginal and Northern Affairs, and I would like to arrangement we have at this time. follow on with questions. The letter is from Mr. Dennis Brownlee, president of the Portage Ia Mr. Reimer: Mr. Speaker, this indeed is a bowl Prairie and District Chamber of Commerce, of spaghetti because one is related to the other; regarding the plight of more than 18 small busi­ the other one does not want to take responsi­ nesses in Portage. bility, pushing it off to somebody else. Mr. Speaker, these debts were incurred by I just want to ask the minister then: Can the the former chief, Dennis Pashe. Now, I under­ minister indicate if she will follow the Provincial stand by the wording here this Government does Council of Women's request that, again, as I not recognize him as former chief. Mr. Pashe quote, was outlined to her on April 15 when they still has complete control over all gaming reve­ met with the Cabinet that the complete files from nues, yet he has no responsibility for the debts Manitoba Lotteries Commission, Manitoba that he, himself, was responsible for prior to Gaming Control board and the Taxation Divi­ third party being introduced by the federal sion of Manitoba Finance concerning gaming, government. gas bar and tobacco revenues be put on the public record? Will the minister commit to that? * (13:45) July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3329

I would like to ask the Minister of Abori­ from the Manitoba Gaming Control Commis­ ginal and Northern Affairs: What discussions or sion's bank account on a weekly basis. what actions has the Doer government taken to assist Portage businesses to recoup the monies Therefore, it is simply not possible for MLC owed to them by Dakota Tipi? to place their gaming revenue in any kind of trust fund or to have this gaming revenue used Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal somehow to pay back business owners in Por­ and Northern Affairs): This is the first oppor­ tage, because neither Manitoba Lotteries nor the tunity I have had to read the letter from the Manitoba Gaming Control Commission have chamber in Portage la Prairie, Mr. Speaker. I am their hands on this 90 percent. It remains in the aware of the many problems that exist in Dakota community in accordance with the agreements Tipi, some to a lesser degree, but I am also that were signed by the members opposite. aware that this is one of the reasons why the community itself, the First Nations, came under Report Tabling Request third-party management because of the financial problems that were being experienced by the Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): people of that community. Mr. Speaker, does the minister not realize that Mr. Dennis Pashe, as chief, appointed himself to The matter with respect to the election of the the gaming commission for the reserve? Now chief, as the member knows, has been chal­ Mr. Pashe has been removed from all responsi­ lenged by Dennis Pashe and that matter is before bility of paying the bills, yet this Government the courts. It would be inappropriate for our recognizes him as the gaming commissioner on Government to respond to that, First Nations the reserve and he is receiving all the monies. being the primary responsibility of the federal Does this minister not realize he receives all the government. The federal government has the money yet he has no responsibilities to dispense responsibility of First Nations throughout this it? Is the minister here today willing to table the province and indeed across this country. report that is called for by the gaming commis­ sion, so that we here in the House can see where However, there are instances where provin­ those monies are being spent? cial governments have some involvement with First Nations, and with respect to rebates on gas­ Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal oline and tobacco, indeed, that is the responsi­ and Northern Affairs): Let me repeat what I bility of the provincial government. As I said, said earlier, Mr. Speaker. To the best of my the issue is complex, where Chief Pashe has understanding, the community is indeed under appointed his own third-party manager. third-party management. The main function of the First Nations community is under third-party management by the Department of Indian Af­ Mr. Faurschou: The Minister of Aboriginal and fairs, federal government. On the other hand, the Northern Affairs, I hope, is prepared to intervene gaming-{interjection] and ensure that the VLT money still flowing to Mr. Pashe will be used to pay down the debts Well, if they would listen, I will respond, Mr. Pashe signed for with the Portage busines­ Mr. Speaker. ses. Is he prepared to intervene? I am trying to say the chief and the current Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister charged council have appointed their own third-party with the administration of The Manitoba Lot­ manager, asserting the authority they have as teries Corporation Act): The premises behind First Nations leaders in the community on the the member's questions simply do not work. As I gaming initiative and also on the gas bar said, in accordance with an agreement between operation they have in this community. This Dakota Tipi, Manitoba Gaming Commission and matter may go before the courts where Chief Manitoba Lotteries, VLT revenue is collected by Pashe, his right as a Canadian person to chal­ the site holder; 90 percent is retained by the site lenge this matter in court may occur, and I have holder and MLC withdraws their 10 percent no furtherknowledge beyond that. 3330 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Dakota Tipi First Nation Speaker, by the Minister of Health (Mr. Gaming Revenues Chomiak). {interjection]

Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. Mr. Speaker, women and children on Dakota Speaker, the federal government, in its wisdom, Tipi fear fo r their safety and their security, and was concerned enough to put a third party in millions of dollars are not being accounted fo r as place to manage the affairs and the financial a result of this Government recognizing a chief affairs of the Dakota Tipi First Nation. We see the fe deral government does not recognize. the provincial government is shirking its respon­ sibility. If in fa ct the fe deral government be­ Point of Order lieves a third party needs to manage until a chief is duly elected, why is this Government still Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government recognizing the chief the fe deral government House Leader, on a point of order. does not recognize, and why are they still allowing millions of dollars of lotteries revenue Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House to flow through that individual? Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I believe the member is up on a supplementary question, I * (13:50) believe her second supplementary, in which case Beauchesne Citation 409 states and applies that a Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal supplementary question should need no pre­ and Northern Affairs): The issue itself is com­ amble. I wonder if you could remind the honour­ plex, and I do not really want to politicize the able member. matter any more than it is in Dakota Tipi. [interjection] It is a serious matter and I wish Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member fo r they would listen. River East, on the same point of order.

Mr. Speaker, there is a threat that somebody Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, this is an could get hurt in the community. We are all extremely serious issue, an issue that women are concernedabout that. The government that has a asking for answers on and they are getting no primary responsibility is the federal government. answers from this Government. If it takes an They are doing matters as appropriate, and our extra sentence to lay out the issue so that Mani­ Government is going to be supportive in matters tobans can understand, I believe it is our respon­ when it comes to law and order and other issues. sibility to do that.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Again, I ask this Government: Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by When the federal government believes the issues the honourable Government House Leader, he on Dakota Tipi are serious enough that they put has a point of order. Beauchesne Citation a third party in place to manage the affairs and to 409(2): A supplementary question should not manage the finances of that reserve, why is this require a preamble. Government shirking its responsibility and still allowing the chief the fe deral government does * * * not recognize to be the spokesperson to them for that reserve? Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member fo r River East, to please put her question. Mr. Robinson: Again, Mr. Speaker, the primary responsibility of any government is the fe deral Mrs. Mitchelson: My question is fo r the government with respect to First Nations Premier. Will the Premier provide some leader­ communities. It happens to be the fe deral ship in this province and stand up fo r the women government, and we are supportive of their and children who are raising issues of concern initiative. on Dakota Tipi, and will he get some answers from his ministers within Government as to how Mrs. Mitchelson: This is absolutely unbeliev­ to deal with this issue to ensure the lotteries able. [interjection] A little sensitivity, Mr. revenue, the tobacco taxes and the gasoline taxes July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3331 are being dealt with in an appropriate, account­ I ask the Minister of Health: What is he able fashion so that the women and children do doing about this situation? not have to go to food banks in order to receive the nourishment they need and that they can be Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. supported as individuals who deserve his support Speaker, I believe the member had a press con­ here in the province of Manitoba? ference on that this morning with Linda West, ex of the department, ex of the Tory caucus Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): As the previous research and now, I think, a candidate or associ­ answers have indicated, the Government has not ate. This information had been raised before. rescinded the gambling agreement made by the The member has raised this information on three previous government in 1994, nor I believe the or four occasions in this House with respect to agreement that was reached by former Minister the raw data with respect to mortality rates Stefanson on taxation, both for cigarettes and regarding heart surgery, I believe he raised it. gasoline. With respect to the issue of the individual Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. the member kept raising in this House, that matter went before Judge Krindle for review. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: * (13:55) Will the Minister of Health now act to institute public reporting of results, as occurs in Ontario Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the where the mortality from coronary artery by­ issues raised about a chief who has been put into pass grafting has now decreased to 1.9 percent, a situation by the federal government and the well below the Manitoba rate of 2.6 percent? answer given by the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson) about our lack Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, we have introduced of jurisdiction is correct in terms of who is chief in this Legislature, for the first time in Canada, a under the Indian Act of Canada, but I think the bill on physician profiles and the member has issue of the legality of the gaming agreement filibustered on Bill 14 day after day, week after that was signed in 1994 and what legalities, legal week. Let us get on and talk about that bill so he rights and responsibilities we have as a govern­ can put those amendments forward when that ment should be investigated, and I will do that bill gets discussed, but he keeps filibustering and with the appropriate ministers. blocking passage of the bills in this Chamber so we cannot do it. Cardiac Surgery Mortality Rate Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I think the minister Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. should not protest about good debate in the Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Legislature. Health. Recent information shows the mortality rate from adult cardiac surgery has increased I ask the minister, who in fact has the power since 1995 from 3.46 percent to 4.4 percent most to act, why he hesitates now to move in the recently, and for coronary artery by-pass grafts Ontario direction and improve accountability from 2.1 percent to 2.6 percent over the same and transparency by posting the public results in period. Mortality rates elsewhere in North a regular fashion. America have been declining so that in Manitoba these rates are now significantly higher than the Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, first off, the data North American average. With approximately a released by the member today is going into a thousand Manitobans each year receiving compilation to be compared with other data. I cardiac surgery in Manitoba, this means we now understand we will have good results and com­ have an additional approximately 12 people who parative data by the fall with respect to infor­ die each year compared to the North American mation provided by the member that he has average. provided on many, many other occasions. 3332 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Secondly, we have a bill before this Cham­ port; resource teachers; talent development ber for the first time dealing with physician programs; reading recovery; industrial arts; profiles. I would be curious as to the member's music programs for middle and senior years; position in that regard, because I have had technology computer updating; French immer­ occasion where the member has taken one sion opportunities; vocational schooling; busing position on one issue and another position on development; and professional development another issue. Let us discuss the bill. Let us days for teachers and staff. discuss physician profiles in general. Let us see what we are going to put on the record to help all Mr. Speaker, there are many benefits from Manitobans, as was recommended by the amalgamation around the province. Sinclair and Thomas inquiries. We have much larger issues that fit in with that and we would Labour Relations Legislation appreciate some support from members oppo­ Exemptions site. Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Mr. Speaker, School Divisions when referring to the bungled mess the Minister Amalgamations-Benefits of Labour (Ms. Barrett) has created with Bill 18, the Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines told Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): Mr. Speaker, my the Interlake Sp ectator and the Selkirk Journal question is to the Minister of Education, Train­ that she is sympathetic to those who may be ing and Youth. In anticipation of the moderniza­ frustrated by the process. tion of school boundaries, trustees and senior management have been preparing for amalga­ The minister went on to say, and I quote, mation effective July 1 for months and months. uncertainty is difficult to deal with. During that time, the Opposition has continu­ ously put doom-and-gloom comments on the The minister also stated it is possible for record regarding the benefits of amalgamation. Cando Contracting to take over the rail line without changing its legislation or forcing Cando * (14:00) to unionize.

Could the Minister of Education, Training I would like to ask the Minister of Industry, and Youth- Trade and Mines if one of the options she is looking at is ordering the Manitoba Labour An Honourable Member: Question. Board to exempt Cando from Bill 18.

Ms. Allan: I think "Could the Minister of Hon. MaryAnn Mihychuk (Minister of Indus­ Education, Training and Youth" is a question­ try, Trade and Mines): Mr. Speaker, options update his colleagues in the House today out­ are on the table reviewing everything possible, lining specific benefits to divisions because of and I would like to inform the House we are still amalgamation? working with all members who are involved with this difficult situation. [interjection} Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): Mr. Speaker, there are, Mr. Speaker: I just want to draw the attention as Manitobans know, a great many benefits from of all honourable members that politicians you amalgamation. I quote from the Clipper Weekly , might be, but I guarantee you, singers you are a newspaper in the Member for Springfield's not. I would ask the co-operation of all honour­ (Mr. Schuler) constituency. In a piece entitled able members, because it is very, very difficult Amalgamation has much to offer, I quote: We to hear the person who has the floor. I would ask found that the amalgamation of Springfield and the full co-operation of all honourable members, Agassiz has much to offer. The following are please. some of the programs and resources we felt were important and available within the Agassiz Ms. Mihychuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The School Division: consulting and in-school sup- short answer to the question is no. July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3333

Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, then can the Minister So, Mr. Speaker, now the member is saying, of Industry confirm that if the Labour Board okay, now we are going to decide that the does not exempt Cando from Bill 18 her Gov­ waiting list issue is the wait between a specialist ernment will have to make changes to Bill 18 to and diagnosis, and maybe we can find something see this deal go ahead? there. Over all, on a whole variety of areas, we have put in more resources, and we continue to Ms. Mihychuk: What I can tell the members work every day to clean up their mess. across the way, and all Manitobans, is that our goal is to ensure the line remains open, that the Mrs. Driedger: I would like to ask the Minister industry in Gimli is successful and has a long of Health to explain, according to that same future here in Manitoba, and we are still working report which I might indicate was released with all parties to ensure that can happen. today, and it is those facts I am quoting from today-it is not facts that I am drawing out of the Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, will the minister then air, it comes out of a Stats Canada report-why follow the example set by her Minister of Health 60 percent of Manitobans are forced to wait (Mr. Chomiak) and do yet another flip-flop and more than a month for non-emergency surgeries, repeal Bill 18 so important jobs in Gimli can be again, according to this report, one of the worst protected? records in Canada. Can the minister explain that? Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Speaker, what I can tell you is this Government is going to work with all Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I can tell her for a diligence to find a positive solution, as we have fact that there are at least two reports released a for companies in Brandon, in Elie, in Winnipeg, week with respect to comparative figures in and in this case in Gimli. I understand how dif­ terms of health care. I note the member did not ficult it is to have a situation of uncertainty, but I choose to talk about the CIHI report that talked can assure you that all members are concentrated about the number of specialists we have in on finding a positive, long-term solution for Manitoba. She chose not to talk about the num­ Gimli and rural Manitoba. ber of physicians that have increased for the first time in the last two years. Medical Specialists Waiting Lists So, Mr. Speaker, with respect to that report, Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. I will check the specific criteria, because often Speaker, the Minister of Health and the Premier members raise reports of comparisons that have (Mr. Doer) promised Manitobans during the in fact occurred when members opposite were 1999 election they were going to slash waiting actually in government. lists and they failed miserably in keeping that promise. I would like to ask the Minister of Mrs. Driedger: I would like to ask this Minister Health if he could explain, according to a 2001 of Health, who has shown a bit of a tendency to Stats Canada report, why almost 60 percent of flip-flop lately, to admit that this report shows he Manitobans are forced to wait more than a has no plan for slashing waiting lists in Mani­ month to see a specialist for a new illness and, in toba. Despite the fact that he has poured hun­ fact, has one of the worst records in all of dreds of millions of more dollars into health Canada. care, the waiting lists continue to go up, and this Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. report is just substantiating that we have one of Speaker, I do not know if the member over­ the worst records in Canada. Can he just speak looked the fact that recently there was a Canada­ to that issue? wide study that showed our hip and knee replacements were the best in the country. I do Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, the member is not know if the member overlooked the fact that patently wrong. We have reduced the waiting list there was a cancer waiting list study that just for stress, maybe. We have reduced the waiting came out that said we had the shortest waiting list for cancer. We have reduced the waiting list list in the country. for hip and knee replacement, all problem areas. 3334 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Members opposite wanted to close the Mrs. Smith: Mr. Speaker, in all due respect, it is whole cardiac ward in St. Boniface Hospital. not the technology that needs to catch up. It is Members opposite closed 1400 beds. The presi­ the Minister of Justice that needs to catch up. dent of the Manitoba Medical Association called the Tory years the dark years, when doctors left During Estimates, on May 29, the Minister year after year. of Justice said his cyber tip line would be operational, and I quote, over the next few We put in place programs, we reinvested in weeks. That was May 29. It is now July. It has doctors, we reinvested in nurses, we brought been over six weeks since that statement was back the nursing programs the members opposite made. slashed, and then they opposed us when we brought back the nursing programs. The member Can the minister advise how much longer is patently wrong. Manitobans and children in Manitoba have to wait until this cyber tip line is up and opera­ Internet Crime tional? Cyber Tip Line Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, Mr. Mackintosh: Well, Mr. Speaker, the mem­ 420 days have passed since the Minister of ber was also invited to meet with Child Find Justice announced his cyber tip line, promising Manitoba, so that she understood the work that at the time his Government would, and I quote, has gone into this initiative, the number of fund­ do more at the provincial level to prevent the ing commitment- exploitation of children through the Internet. An Honourable Member: What are you doing, Mr. Speaker, I ask this minister: Where is Gord? his announced and re-announced cyber tip line? What happened to that priority? Mr. Mackintosh: Remember when heckling was an art, Mr. Speaker. * (14:10) The member was invited to meet so she Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice could understand all of the law enforcement and Attorney General): I thank the members work, the funding commitments that were neces­ opposite for their new-found interest in this area. sary for this. I remind members opposite, and I Mr. Speaker, unfortunately technology and law will say this once again, that the Province is one enforcement and the justice system have to catch partner of several. This is a project that is being up to the crimes that are being committed led by the community and by many partners, and against children on-line. it will be announced very soon. I understand the announcement will be available either this Mr. Speaker, the member opposite refer­ summer or early in the fall. enced the establishment of the Children Online Protection Committee, which has been asked to Mrs. Smith: A new question, Mr. Speaker. put in place a cyber tip line for Manitobans. Since the Children Online Protection Committee Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Fort began its work, I can advise members opposite Garry, on a new question. and confirm there is interest federally, as well, in looking to the Manitoba project for a national tip Mrs. Smith: Mr. Speaker, clearly I have no need line. That project is being led by Child Find to meet with the parties involved. I fully Manitoba. understand the cyber tip line and the effort that has been put in by Child Find. That is not the The questions, unfortunately, are reflecting question. in a negative way on the very hard work that has gone into this program, Mr. Speaker, and it will The question is it has been 420 days and this be announced very soon, when all the partners Minister of Justice is responsible for the children are ready to make that announcement. in Manitoba. They do not want the meetings. July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3335

They do not want all this stuff going on. What hiring staff to put together a cyber tip line for they want is to be protected. Manitobans. I am very pleased that we are now nearing the end of that organizational effort. My question to the minister, just answer the simple question: When will the cyber tip line be I commend very highly the work of Child operational for Manitoba children? Find Manitoba, its staff, the board, RCMP, and Winnipeg Police Service in particular for their Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate work on the Children Online Protection Com­ there is this reflection on the community partners mittee. It will be a proud day for Manitoba when that are doing this work. this announcement is made, as I said, expected this summer or early this fall. As I said earlier in answer to the very same question, this is not some little phone line that is Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has not answered for up to fivemonths at a time like expired. their gang hot line, so-called hot line, the cold line. This is a very serious project that requires MEMBERS' STATEMENTS security, that requires protocol, that requires as well the intelligence from the international com­ Freedom Walk 2000 munity in terms of how we can protect children on-line, and not only in respect of Manitoba Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): I rise children but nationally as well. today to tell the Assembly of a very special event which I attended last Friday, the 12th of So we are committed to that, Mr. Speaker, July, in Portage Ia Prairie. I am referring to the and I would urge members opposite that they not opening ceremony of the Rising Bear Resi­ politicize the work of a community partnership dential School Survivors group, Freedom Walk like this, a partnership and leadership that is 2000. The march will pass through the com­ beyond reproach. munities of Portage, Brandon, Elkhorn, Birtle Mrs. Smith: Mr. Speaker, on a new question. and Dauphin before ending in Peguis on the first day of the powwow. The objective of the march Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Fort is to draw attention to the suffering and injustice Garry, on a new question. experienced by people from Peguis First Nation who were forced to attend residential schools in Mrs. Smith: Mr. Speaker, I do agree this is a the five communities mentioned above, and to very serious issue. Members opposite and the provide a forum for the victims where they can Justice Minister cannot afford to politicize this share their experiences with each other and, by any longer. It has been 420 days. There is no opening up their hearts, hope to achieve some reflection on any of the other parties. In all due type of closure. respect, it is the Minister of Justice who is responsible for this. It is the Minister of Justice The afternoon began with a fine lunch, who has promised this. It is the Minister of which was followed by a pipe ceremony and Justice who is fully aware of the gravity of this drum song. Aftermotivating speeches by various situation. When will this cyber tip line be up for individuals, including SCO Grand Chief these children? Margaret Swan and Aboriginal Healing Founda­ Mr. Mackintosh: What members opposite tion Co-ordinator Joan Molloy, the marchers set might not understand is the nature of a partner­ off on the first leg to Brandon. The afternoon ship. The Province was very proud to put to­ event was hosted by Chief Dennis Meeches of gether the Children Online Protection Com­ Long Plain First Nation, which recently took mittee in partnership with many organizations, possession of the Portage Residential School and including the police, Child Find Manitoba and surrounding area in a TLE settlement The chief, Beyond Borders. one day, hopes to convert the old brick building into a museum detailing the history of the resi­ As well, we were pleased to be able to dential school system as a lesson for future provide funding for Child Find, to take a lead by generations. For the people of Peguis, the after- 3336 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002 noon was a giant step forward on the long road * (14:20) to healing that they have been travelling now for too long a time. High School Convocations As the rest of us become aware of the Ms. Linda Asper (Riel): High schools that injustice they experienced, let us hope that we, serve Riel constituency students held their con­ too, can move fo rward on this issue so that never vocation ceremonies at the end of June this year. again in our society will such a travesty occur. I had the pleasure of attending all three to Freedom was won at a great cost by our fore­ celebrate the academic achievement and to fathers. Let us never take it for granted but acknowledge the accomplishments of our young remain vigilant and prepared to defend it at people. These events are indeed a highlight in whatever cost indefinitelyinto the future. my role as MLA in Riel. Sterling Lyon It was an honour fo r me to present the MLA Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): It is with great for Riel Award to a Riel graduate at each school pride and honour that I would like to speak about in recognition of leadership skills and academic a very outstanding Manitoban who today is success. Monika Rak, Dakota Collegiate, Kevin going to be receiving the Order of Manitoba. J. Roorda, Glenlawn Collegiate and David This is Mr. Sterling Lyon. As MLA in Fort Taylor, College Jeanne-Sauve were this year's Garry, it is with great pride that I stand in this recipients. Congratulations to these young peo­ House today to applaud and to honour Mr. ple. They represent a dynamic and promising Sterling Lyon. group of graduates who start their journey to fulfil their dreams and to continue a life-long Mr. Sterling Lyon, in Fort Garry, is well­ process of learning. known. I want to first talk about Mr. Sterling Lyon as the compassionate man and community Special thanks goes to the graduates' parents member that he is in the constituency of Fort who provided the support needed for their young Garry. Many times I go to functions and Mr. people to achieve high school graduation. Sterling Lyon is there. He is well loved, well thought of and well respected in the constituency of Fort Garry. It was with great pride that I see Ron Guarino, Dakota Collegiate principal, the service that Mr. Sterling Lyon has played, Donna Bulow, Glenlawn principal and Christian has put forward, the service that he has given Michalik, College Jeanne-Sauve principal, as both to Manitoba and to Canada. He was well as their staffs, deserve much credit fo r their nominated as a Progressive Conservative candi­ students' achievements and the moving cere­ date fo r Fort Garry in 1957 and was first elected monies held again this year. I would like to to the Manitoba Legislature in 1958. He was thank them for hosting me at the convocations sworn in as Attorney General, Mr. Speaker, at and providing me the opportunity to contribute the age of 31. He was the youngest Cabinet to the future of three deserving students. minister in the Roblin administration. Congratulations to all graduates, best wishes He was re-elected again and again in '59, '62 for the fu ture. We all look fo rward to their on­ and '66, and, during the II years he served this going contribution to our community and our Legislature and the people of Manitoba, he held province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. many different portfolios. These included Public Utilities, Municipal Affairs, Mines and Natural Resources, Tourism, Recreation and Northern Dakota Tipi First Nation Commissioner. Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): Above all, today as we honour Mr. Sterling Mr. Speaker, today during Question Period I Lyon with the Order of Manitoba, it is because tabled a letter that was offered by the president of his character, his integrity and his commit­ of the Portage and District Chamber of Com­ ment to Manitoba. merce, Mr. Dennis Brownlee. July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3337

I would like to read an excerpt of that to well, my thanks go out to the school adminis­ express more fully the serious nature of the trators for supporting the invaluable and dedi­ situation in Portage as tens of thousands of cated staff of Second Start. dollars owed by the Dakota Tipi had been previ­ ously entered into good faith by Mr. Dennis I would like to make a special mention of Pashe, and I quote: "Our members dealt with Sturgeon Creek principal Rick Strongman and Dakota Tipi in good faith, and expect payment. staff Jeff Chartrand, Warren Nightingale and Some of our members are owed many thousands Yubi Gill of Second Start. Thank you to them of dollars. These are small businesses whose all. Through the unique and creative efforts of margins are tight, and this outstanding debt has a such educators, these recent graduates have truly huge impact on their viability. Some businesses been given a Second Start. To see such students may be on the verge of failure because of their work toward their difficult goals, sometimes inability to collect these outstanding accounts." struggling, and then realize their dreams is tremendously gratifying. Mr. Speaker, these debts were incurred by Dakota Tipi when under the direction of Mr. Dennis Pashe. On March 27, a third party was Mr. Speaker, as the proud mother of Alexis, appointed to administer the First Nation of who is one of those young people to achieve her Dakota Tipi in their affairs. Since then, all bills dream, I speak with profound understanding and have been paid, but the third party does not have gratitude for the contributions that both staff and the ability in which to pay the debts that were students make for the future of this generation. acquired or incurred by Dakota Tipi prior to Thank you. March 27 of this year. ORDERS OF THE DAY I ask the Minister responsible for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson) to please GOVERNMENT BUSINESS consider this request very seriously. I believe that this situation needs to be discussed immedi­ Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House ately by all principals. Currently, Mr. Speaker, Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you please call Dennis Pashe has filed a letter- report stage of Bill 14.

Mr. Speaker: Order. REPORT STAGE

Sturgeon Creek Graduation Biii 14-The Public Schools Modernization Act (Public Schools Act Amended) Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): Mr. Speaker, I rise today with a feeling of tremen­ Mr. Speaker: An amendment brought forward dous pride. On June 27, I attended the Sturgeon by the honourable Member for Minnedosa (Mr. Creek School graduation ceremonies. It was a Gilleshammer) and the debate remains open. The moving experience to watch these young people honourable Member for Minnedosa. The hon­ positively glowing as they crossed the stage to ourable member has already spoken on it. receive their diplomas and awards. This year, the grads' ranks swelled as those graduating from Is the House ready for the question? Second Start, an alternative program run out of Jameswood School, joined in the ceremonies for An Honourable Member: Question. the first time. During the event, I had the great honor of presenting the St. James Rotary Award Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is to Thomas Banasiak. the proposed amendment to Bill 14

I would like to commend all the school staff THA T Bill 14 be amended in subsection for helping these young people achieve their 22(2) of the Billby adding- goals. They are also to be praised for the great organization of such a memorable event. As Some Honourable Members: Dispense. 3338 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Mr. Speaker: Dispense. elected by their ratepayers, and today are respon­ sible for almost half the school division budget ", ifthe minister has advised the division by no through the special levy. This is perhaps some­ later than January 15 of the current fiscal year thing that people have not foreseen, but as of the provincial fu nding that the division is to governments in this province have slowly with­ receive fo r the nextfis cal year, " at the end of the drawn their commitment, in terms of dollars to part before clause (a) . school divisions, well, I see the Deputy Premier (Ms. Friesen) is here, and I am pleased to see her Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to again today. She should be well aware of the fact adopt a motion? that the Manitoba Teachers' Society talked about the funding that is being given to school Some Honourable Members: Agreed. divisions now, and her Government is giving the least amount on a percentage basis to the Some Honourable Members: No. operating funds of government. I am surprised, after her many, many years as a critic of Voice Vote Education, and one who would have a lot of influence on Cabinet and on Treasury Board, Mr. Speaker: All those in favor of the that she allowed this to happen. The funding for amendment, say yea. school divisions is the least amount that school divisions have seen in many, many generations. Some Honourable Members: Yea. Now, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Inter­ Mr. Speaker: All those opposed to the amend­ governmental Affairs, of course, has done quite ment, say nay. a change. She was such an opponent of school division amalgamation just a few short years Some Honourable Members: Nay. ago. I know that this would not mirror the lack of influence she has at the Cabinet level, but Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Nays have it. perhaps she was away that day when the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) brought in * * * his funding and perhaps she was away another Mr. Speaker: We will move on to the next day when he brought in the new boundaries, amendment in the name of the honourable Mem­ because I cannot believe that the Minister of ber for Minnedosa. Intergovernmental Affairs would sit there and allow this to happen. Mr. Harold Gilleshammer (Minnedosa): This is a rather lengthy amendment. I move, seconded * (14:30) by the Member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler) At any rate, getting back to this amendment, THA T Bill 14 be amended by striking out these trustees are duly elected by the people in subsection 22(3) of the Bill. their school division, and they are responsible now for upwards of half the expenditures, the Motion presented. raising of the money for half of the expenditures on the operating side of the budget. Yet how are Mr. Gilleshammer: This section of the bill they being treated by this Government? This comes under the Transitional Provisions and Government is telling them that they have to Consequential Amendments to this bill. In fact, come cap in hand with their preliminary budget, it allows the minister to insert himself into the show it to the Minister of Education, and this bill business of the school division as they are being allows him to make those changes in their amalgamated. budget that he deems fit to try and find that $10 million of savings that he has been talking about. This, in a democracy such as we enjoy here in Manitoba, seems a strange way for a minister Now the minister surely knows that they to act. The members of the school board are duly have appointed boards across the province like July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3339 the regional health authorities. These are all do, rather than putting forward legislation that appointed people, and the minister has every does the right thing, that does the best thing for right to determine what their budget is, but he all those involved, for doing the right thing for allows them to determine how it is expended. the children and the children's future. What is particularly an affront in this case is the fact that these people are duly elected and have Clearly, this amendment improves the bill been ever since schools were built in this greatly, Mr. Speaker, because the bill has many, province. Neighbours would get together and many flaws. Over the last couple of weeks, we form a school board and then build a school, and have seen the debate going on. In fact, we wish they were responsible for the budget of that that we could get the minister to recognize his school. Now, by this act, the minister is revers­ wrong and improper bill and do like the Minister ing the history of education in Manitoba that of Health (Mr. Chomiak) and come to his senses goes back into the 1800s where duly elected and see the light and actually reverse himself of trustees had a lot of clout in the school division· this terrible piece of legislation. We pointed out they had a lot that they could do about hiring of flaws last week where, for instance, Elmwood teachers, setting of programs, setting of budget. has completely been carved out of the whole The Minister of Education today, by this act, is amalgamation issue. I actually put on the record setting that all back to I do not know when. In misinformation. It is not the Member for Elm­ fact this type of interference in a school divi­ wood (Mr. Maloway) who represents Elmwood sion's budget has before this time never been High School. It is actually the Premier, the seen before. Member for Concordia (Mr. Doer). I would ask members across the way to You wonder why the Premier would have support this amendment. This minister does not sat around while the Minister of Education need this authority. School divisions have oper­ pulled o t �is crayons and started carving up ated very well for many, many generations. Now � . school dtvtswns. Surely the Premier has some the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) wants clout in Cabinet, one would be under that to insert himself into their budget process, assumption, though one never knows with determine what their expenditure line should be members on the other side. One would have a d I would ask members opposite to suppo� � thought the Member for Concordia, who thts amendment. The minister can make these represents Elmwood High School, who is changes to school boundaries without this supposed to represent the best interests of all authority that he is giving himself, and I am students, including those of the students he surprised that New Democrats across the way represents, that he would have stood up and he would support such an undemocratic portion of ould have defended Elmwood High School the bill. This would allow them to make a � mstead of running out to the far reaches of the change. As I say, the minister does not need this city of Winnipeg so that his children now no authority, other than he seems to take great longer have to attend Elmwood High School. delight in inserting himself into the role of a trustee and taking away their authority. P.erhaps that is the main reason why the Premier (Mr. Doer) moved is because he did not Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, I want his students attending Elmwood High do also want to put a few comments on the . School, mstead of standing up for those children record in regard to the amendment that has been and doing what was best and doing what was in put forward by the honourable Member for the best interests of those students. Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer).

What we have in front of us currently is a In fact, it is too bad the Premier does not ?ill t�at could be called the school board bully­ participate in these debates. We have noticed mg btll. It is another one of those attempts from him by his silence, which has been deafening, one level of government to push around another that he has not taken an interest in this and that level o� government, to bully them into doing he is not a participant in the debate. That is very somethmg that the Government wishes them to unfortunate on behalf of the Premier. 3340 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski, Acting Sp eaker, in the legislation. It is basically a piece that allows the Chair Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) to further bully and push around school boards, another level of government. I do not think that is in the With this amendment, as we sit here and toil best interests of public education. over the bill trying to get the Government to see what is wrong with the legislation, what needs to There was once a time, Madam Acting be improved with the legislation, including this Speaker, that I actually thought that the NDP particular amendment and all the amendments cared about public education. That is over. We that have been put forward and voted down by can see that this is the big corporate agenda of the Government and its members, one would amalgamation that they have gotten on to. One have thought that rather than the Premier fleeing wonders if the Premier's intention is to put his from the catchment area of Elmwood High own children into private school. What is next? School with his family to the outermost reaches That all bodes very poorly. of the city, instead of improving the situation in Elmwood High School, instead of looking at the The Member fo r Rossmere (Mr. Schellen­ amendment that is before us, instead of looking berg), does he defend his area? Absolutely not. at ways to make the situation better, instead he He sits and does not defend his constituents nor just flees from the Elmwood High School the students that he purports to represent. We catchment area and flees to the outer reaches of certainly would like to see that school boards be the city so that his children are not part of that acknowledged as another level of government. particular high school. The individuals who served there served long hours, spent a lot of time. I know at budget Madam Acting Speaker, I think that bodes time-I used to be a trustee-the hours that were very poorly. As a former graduate of Elmwood spent, are way over and above the call of duty, High School, frankly, I am offended at the the kind of time. Premier's actions. The least he could have done is stood up in Cabinet-again, one would assume I think this amendment is correct, and it is that the Premier would have some kind of clout, appropriate at this time, and I recommend that that he would have some kind of say in this all members support this particular amendment. regard-that he would have stood up for his area, Thank you. that he would stand up for his constituents and defend Elmwood High School, as this amend­ * (14:40) ment does.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bonnie Korzen­ This amendment speaks to all schools. It iowski): Is the House ready fo r the question? speaks to all areas of the province. We pointed out the difficulties on Thursday. Elmwood High Mr. Sp eaker in the Chair School, basically because of where it is situated, is sort of caught in no-man's land. It is caught in Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready fo r the nowhere land. It is really not part of Winnipeg question? No. 1, yet it is not legally part of River East School Division. It just sits there and it falters. An Honourable Member: Question.

I am very saddened, as are all those gradu­ Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is ates of Elmwood High School who got a good the proposed amendment to Bill 14 education there, when we see the MLA for Elmwood High School fleeing from the area, not THA T Bill 14 be amended by striking out interested at all in representing his own constitu­ subsection 23(3) of the Bill. ents and the students of Elmwood High School. It would be most telling if we would see the Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the Premier (Mr. Doer) stand up and defend this amendment? July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3341

I thank the honourable member for that Some Honourable Members: Agreed. correction.

Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Gilleshammer: We think this one is going to pass, so it is important that you have the number right. Voice Vote Mr. Speaker: All in favour of the amendment, This is my final amendment to Bill 14, and it say yea. deals with what happens if school divisions do not comply with the minister's directive, and it Some Honourable Members: Yea. reads: "Subsection 173.1 (2) applies, with neces­ sary changes, if a school board of an amal­ Mr. Speaker: All opposed to the amendment, gamated division fa ils or refuses to comply with say nay. a direction of the minister under this section."

Some Honourable Members: Nay. Now, the minister has good reason to believe that there are school divisions that do not Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Nays have it. want to comply with his directives. We have seen a minister who acts very much like a bully.

*** In fact, it may even be rubbing off on the Member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg) because- Mr. Gilleshammer: I am now ready to go with the next amendment. An Honourable Member: I think so, because he was corning over the top the other day. Mr. Speaker: I will move on to-{interjection] In my opinion, the Nays have it. So the Mr. Gilleshammer: At any rate, what the amendment has been defeated. minister fails to recognize is that every school division has a culture of its own. Every school Now we will move on to proposed amend­ division has a history of its own. They have ment to Bill 14. It is in the name of the hon­ decided what their expenditures should be. Now, ourable Member for Minnedosa. I know the Member for Rossmere is very much in favour of this bill because he has stated that in Mr. Gilleshammer: I move, seconded by the his speeches. He has said that members, the Member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) people of his constituency actually love this bill, and we have seen now that there are going to be THA T Bill 14 be amended by striking out additional expenditures for the constituents of subsection 22(4) of the Bill. the Member for Rossmere. I am pleased to see the Member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) stand­ Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the ing by. He, too, performs certain vital functions honourable Member for Minnedosa, seconded in this House, and I am sure that there is a good by the honourable Member for St. Norbert reason for him to be standing nearby. At any rate, I digress. The minister is using very threat­ THA T Bill 14 be amended by striking out ening language here, that he is indicating- subsection 24(4) of the Bill. An Honourable Member: Looks good on your Mr. Gilleshammer: 22(4), Mr. Speaker. amendments, Harold. Mr. Speaker: 22. Sorry about that. I will do it Mr. Gilleshammer: Well, thank you to the again minister in charge of gambling, because she has a full plate in her own department that she seems THA T Bill 14 be amended by striking out to be ignoring at the moment. I am pleased that subsection 22(4) of the Bill. she is here, but I would encourage her maybe to 3342 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002 give more attention to some of the issues that are going to find that $10-million worth of savings. before her that she seems to be dragging her feet But the minister is more apt to say we are going on. to do it on the administrative side, and he has already shown himself to be a bully with school Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Sp eaker, in the divisions where he fired the board of Morris­ Chair Macdonald. In fa ct, when trustees from River East were talking about the service and fu nding At any rate, the minister is certainly being a agreement between themselves and Agassiz, one bit of a bully with this legislation. There seems of the trustees was known to have said, we did to be no opportunity for school divisions to have not think we had a choice; we thought we were divergent thinking about their budget. The going to be fired. Now, this is the type of atmos­ minister is injecting himself, and I would dare­ phere that this minister has created in the say he does not know or understand the culture education circles in Manitoba, that he has acted of each and every school division. Is he going to in a very erratic way, that he has threatened be setting the priorities for that school division school divisions, and this bill is just another when he tells them they are spending too much? example of that. Is he going to go line by line and say this is what should be taken out of your budget? Is he going Mr. Sp eaker in the Chair to redesign the class structure within the school division? Is he going to change bus routes so that There are other ways that he could develop he can save money? this relationship, and I am surprised the Member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg) has so much This is the type of nitty-gritty detail that the associated himself with this piece of legislation, minister wants to inject himself into, and I can because there are very negative repercussions tell you it is wrong. These people are duly ahead fo r him. I think we saw that realization elected by the people of that school division. last week. That light came on when he saw that, They need to have the authority. They need to hey, maybe I am on the wrong side of th is issue. have the authority to make those decisions. If, in I would expect the Member fo r Rossmere maybe fact, he wants to appoint school boards, but we to get up on his feet today and, in a very calm have not seen that inclination of the minister. He and calculating way, add his voice to the debate is more up to firing school boards, and I wish he here, or even his partner from Dauphin may wish was here today to participate in this. to enter the debate. This is not the way the trustees of River East want to be treated. This is At any rate, this minister is very much not the way the trustees of Dauphin want to be acting like a bully with this particular piece of treated. I can tell you that this sets a very bad legislation, and in this particular item that I standard for the relationship between the minis­ would like to see taken out of the bill, he does ter and school division boards. not need this. Surely, he can work together with school divisions, make suggestions to them, So I would say to members of the House make recommendations to them, but, no, he is that this is an opportunity to perhaps mend some giving himself the authority here, the very, very fences, to build those relationships, to vote for heavy hand to dictate to school divisions exactly this resolution and mend some of those fe nces what their expenditure pattern should be, and and develop a better relationship between school this is wrong. boards and the minister's office. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I am surprised that members opposite have gone along with this. The only reason one could Mr. Schuler: Mr. Speaker, I do not know, was think of is that the minister has been out fr ont the Member fo r Rossmere getting up? No. Well, saying there are $10-million worth of savings then I will take the floor. I do want to speak to here, and, by golly, we are going to find those this amendment, as well, seeing as members savings one way or another. If we have to reduce opposite could not care enough about their own programs, if we have to reduce bus routes, if we legislation to get up and speak on it, which is have to take clinicians out of the field, we are really quite shameful because, as we have stated July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3343 earlier on, this really is a school-board-bullying Mr. Speaker. The way the system works right bill. This could also be termed the micromanage­ now is if there is a problem and a school ment section of the bill. identifies a student that is clearly a problem student, that goes in front of the board in an in I want to sort of, for the House and for the camera session. The board then has the authority minister and for the Member for Rossmere, who to either back up the principal or the principal used to be a teacher in the River East School might have said, this is so severe we would like Division, who, from what he says on the record, the school board to deal with the particular issue. has quite a love for the River East School And the school board then can decide either they Division, which then one wonders why he stands suspend the student three days, they can do a by and watches the dismantling and the destruc­ week, or they can ask the student to be removed tion of River East School Division in a most from the school division permanently, the only callous and uncaring way-even the Premier (Mr. other option available. Doer), the Member for Concordia, who has such a loathing for the individuals that he represents, So it is actually almost a quasi-judicial the people from Elmwood High School, that he setting that takes place. I have been part of that. flees to the furthest reaches of the city so that his The parents sit with the student, and they present children will not have to attend Elmwood High their case of what happened. The administration School, and as a former graduate I find that very presents their case, and once a decision has been offensive. {interjection] The Member for River made, the next appeal process is to the minister. Heights (Mr. Gerrard) is astounded. He did not In every instance that I am aware, the minister realize that the Premier lives almost at the always acknowledges that the final decision is boundary of the City of Winnipeg. That just then made at the school board. shows how far the Premier wants to flee. What the minister does not wish to get * (14:50) involved in is the micromanagement of school But this particular piece of legislation is divisions. My goodness, what is the Minister of dealing with the whole micromanagement, and it Education going to do? Hear every discipline deals with the whole philosophy of the way we issue from every school across the province? have set up our particular education system. The The minister has no idea what he is actually way it was set up historically was that the doing with this legislation. Province would make broad policy decisions and the school boards would be the ones who would The discipline, and we could take for do the micromanagement, and it worked well, example Elmwood High School where the and that is the way you want it. Premier is fleeing from his own high school, fleeing to the outer reaches of the city because I would like to use a case in point. he does not even want to face it, and the Minister {interjection] If the Member for Rossmere (Mr. of Education is standing there saying, bring it all Schellenberg) would actually take the time and on; we will deal with it. And we know what will listen, I would like to lay out a case where happen. There will be more bureaucracy built. micromanagement, which this section deals This will add so much cost. That ridiculous spin with, which the amendment wants to remove, is of spending 10 million, we note, is a cost for very dangerous, and it is going to be problematic sure. That amalgamation is going to cost double not just for this Minister of Education (Mr. the 10 million they spin that they are going to Caldwell) but for the next Minister of Education actually save, but building a bureaucracy to deal that is going to be put in after this session ends, with all the issues that then can come up to the and he gets bumped out of it and then after the minister's office if, in fact, the minister intends next election when the current Government is on micromanaging the school divisions. defeated, thank goodness, and then sanity will be brought back to the province. It has nothing to do with modernization. This has to do with pushing around another level The problem with the micromanagement of government, and it has to do with this deals with the whole issue of discipline issues, socialist insecurity, this need to concentrate 3344 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002 everything, to micromanage, and that is where some of us could have supported. But, at the rate the system will fall apart. we are going right now, that if it is about voting another level of Government, if it is nothing but If this were purely about amalgamation pushing around other individuals, if it is about issues, it would have been done under the old micromanagement and concentrating power system. It would have been put through, and we which the Member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellen­ would have lived with the consequences. Bill 14 berg) wants to see, he wants to see the death of is neither necessary for amalgamation nor is it the public school system that some of us fo ught necessary for any of the other things the Gov­ so many years for, that we fo ught so hard to help ernment was trying to do other than a power build up. I spent a lot of time fighting for the grab, push around the school divisions, micro­ public school system. My children are in the manage the system, and this minister and all his public school system, unlike the Member fo r predecessors will pay for it if they think they are Rossmere's children. We stood up, and we going to micromanage the education system at fought fo r the public school system. I am proud the deputy minister's and the minister's level. It of River East School Division, and I am proud of is a nightmare. Transcona-Springfield. It is a shame this Gov­ ernment saw fitto destroy them and to ruin a lot I know, just as a trustee, how many nights of hard work and a lot of good things that were and how many evenings we sat and listened to done. I will be supporting this amendment. parental concernsbec ause they have a right to be heard. And again, we talk ourselves in circle, Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I am this being a government that takes away the just moved by the powerful speech just made by rights of parents to be heard. So I guess this is the Member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler) and another attack on the parental rights because, also just thankful for the information that the you know, if there is something that involves Member for Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer) put your student, there is a discipline issue. You on the record, and it deserves to be repeated. have a right to appeal to the board right now and to be heard, and we know full well that right will The simple fact is that the Filmon adminis­ be stripped away from them, because neither the tration provided more support fo r the public minister, nor his deputy minister, nor his depart­ school system than this New Democratic Party ment can deal with that kind of micromanage­ does, and that is when you think of the rhetoric ment issue. That is one small piece of the edu­ and when you think of the smoke and mirrors, cation system, and it is unfortunate that individu­ when you think of all what they are led to als who have absolutely no history, no idea, have believe, and all of that is kind of reflected in Bill no clue what goes on in the education system are 14. exactly the same ones that pull out their little crayons and start carving up our school Simple fact of the matter is everything is divisions, Mr. Speaker. relative. Mr. Speaker, it is like when we started the national medicare system. The deal was that * (15:00) Ottawa pays 50 percent, the provinces pay 50 percent. Well, we all know and we hear their At least they could have listened to a well­ rhetoric, and we join with them, when Ottawa's thought-out and a well-designed plan like share has steadily decreased down to 40 percent, Norrie. Instead what they did, Mr. Speaker, is 38 percent. What is it now, about 17 percent, 18 they took the process and claimed it as theirs, percent? [interjection] Okay, 14 percent. When took the report and threw it out, and we have a the Duff Roblin government and a Progressive disaster in front of us. We have a mess called Conservative government first, in a serious way, Bill 14, and I would suggest all members support supported the public school system, the differ­ this particular amendment. ential was 75 percent, 80 percent provincial support and 20 percent, 25 percent special levy It is unfortunate that the rest of them did not local support. When the Filmon government was go through, Mr. Speaker, because we might have last in government, thatratio was better than it is had an amalgamation that, even though it stinks, today. It was better than it is today. So let it be July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3345 clearly stated, and I would think that, on a sub­ Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the ject matter like this, perhaps one of them would amendment? get up and argue the point, but they will be silent. They will acknowledge that the Filmon Some Honourable Members: Agreed. administration supported the public school sys­ tem better than the current Gary Doer NDP gov­ Some Honourable Members: No. ernment does. Yes, that is true. That is true. Voice Vote Those are the facts, and not a single one of them, Mr. Speaker, not a single one of them will Mr. Speaker: All those in support of the amend­ refuteit. ment, say yea.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Some Honourable Members: Yea. Speaker, I rise to speak in support of this amend­ ment. As we look around the world, govern­ Mr. Speaker: All those opposed to the amend­ ments are increasingly looking at the role of ment, say nay. government, the principles of subsidiary, which essentially says things should be done at the Some Honourable Members: Nay. level of governments where they can be most effectively done. Clearly, under this act and this Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Nays have it. bill, the minister is trying to take authority which has rested with the school division and be in a Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Official Opposition position to micromanage and unilaterally man­ House Leader): On division, Mr. Speaker. ipulate the budgets of school divisions in ways that would be very difficult to challenge by Mr. Speaker: On division.

school divisions with a lack of an appeal process *** and with clauses like this. Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. When we are talking about moving Mani­ Speaker, I wonder if there might be leave to al­ toba, as we need to do, to a higher level of low the gentlemen in the Legislature to take off performance of government, then clearly we their jackets. I know it is a very hot day, and I need to be letting the school divisions manage just thought that it might be something that we their affairs, manage them responsibly within the might all agree to. provincial framework, but you do not need a minister who goes in from some political sense Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House, for of this or that to manipulate and to micromanage today only, to allow the men to take off their a budget. jackets? Agreed? [A greed]

So I rise in support of this amendment by * * * the Member for Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer) and hope, Mr. Speaker, that it will have support Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House of many other members in this House. Leader): I move, seconded by the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Mr. Sale), that Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the Bill 14, The Public Schools Modernization Act question? (Public Schools Act Amended), as amended and reported from the Standing Committee on Law An Honourable Member: Question. Amendments and subsequently amended, be concurred in. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is the proposed amendment to Bill 14 Motion presented.

THA T Bill 14 be amended by striking out Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to subsection 22(4) of the Bill. adopt the motion? 3346 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Some Honourable Members: Yes. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to put a few com­ Some Honourable Members: No. ments on the record regarding Bill 13, The Medical Laboratory Technologists Act. Voice Vote According to this legislation, it is an act that Mr. Speaker: All those in favour of the motion, creates a college for this particular professional say yea. organization similar to that created for other professional organizations within the health care Some Honourable Members: Yea. system, similar to the nurses act and the physios act. Mr. Speaker: All those opposed to the motion, say nay. * (15:10)

Some Honourable Members: Nay. Certainly, moving towards more public involvement on boards, a process for addressing Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it. disciplinary, self-regulatory and complaint pro­ cesses are built into part of this act. In discussing Mr. Laurendeau: On division, Mr. Speaker. this with the association themselves, they do not have any particular concerns about the bill. As it Mr. Speaker: On division. currently stands, Mr. Speaker, there is no legislation governing the practice of medical lab * * * technologists in Manitoba. There are approxi­ mately 1180 of them employed in Manitoba in Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, would you can­ hospitals, public and private labs, Canadian vass the House to determine if there is leave to blood service and in research settings. deal with third reading of Bill l4, please? So, Mr. Speaker, having been somebody that Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to deal has worked in the health care system for a with third reading of Bill 14? Agreed? number of years and had much involvement with people working at this level, I do want to put on Some Honourable Members: Agreed. the record that I certainly have great respect for the skills that they possess and the expertise that Some Honourable Members: No. they bring to their particular roles and the complexity of some of the issues that they do Mr. Speaker: No, there is no agreement. have to handle in their jobs. Certainly, it is not an area that somebody can easily step into. They *** are all highly trained, highly educated and certainly have a great deal of expertise and skill Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, would you to bring to that particular role. Certainly, as with please call debate on second readings on Bills others in the health care system, they are integral 13, 26 and 28? to the health care system.

DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS There is a place for all kinds of professions within health care. In order to make the system Bill 13-The Medical Laboratory work well, we find that you need all of these Technologists Act various professionals doing their jobs and working in the best interest of patients to make Mr. Speaker: To resume debate on second our health care system as effective as it could reading of Bill 13, The Medical Laboratory possibly be. I know that they, along with other Technologists Act, standing in the name of the professions within the system, certainly work honourable Member for Charleswood, who has hard to rise to the challenges that are put before 40 minutes remaining. them on a daily basis. So I am pleased to be able July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3347 to put those fe w comments on the record, Mr. profession itself to address some of the chal­ Speaker. lenges that come before it on a daily basis.

We look forward to this particular bill being In speaking with the association themselves, discussed further in committee and hearing if they have no particular problem with the bill. there are further issues or concerns that might be Specific to this bill, Mr. Speaker, occupational brought forward at that stage, but, at this point, therapists will no longer have to consult with we are certainly prepared to move this bill on to medical doctors before making recommenda­ committee. tions to patients. I am certain that is something that will be appreciated by the occupational Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the therapists themselves. question? Again, another group that is integral to the Some Honourable Members: Question. system, I have certainly seen occupational thera­ pists work miracles in working with patients to Mr. Speaker: The question fo r the House is Bill help them to recover to as much of a quality of 13, The Medical Laboratory Technologist Act. Is life as some patients are able to after a stroke or it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? after a motor vehicle accident or any number of {Agreed] illnesses that might have come upon a person. I have watched occupational therapists work dili­ Bill 26--The Occupational Therapists Act gently and persistently over long periods of time on patients who have needed a great deal of the Mr. Speaker: Bill 26, The Occupational Thera­ kind of support and expertise that occupational pists Act, standing in the name of the honourable therapists bring to their job; again, a profession Member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck). that is unique, again, within the system.

Is it the will of the House fo r the bill to All of these professions certainly have their remain standing in the name of the honurable specific skills and their specific expertise, and Member for Pembina? they are well educated and well trained to deal with what they are there to deal with. As all of Some Honourable Members: No. these groups are certainly integral to the health care system, it is important that we can put into Mr. Speaker: No. It has been denied. place all of the changes to the act that will help them be able to conduct their jobs to the best of Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. their ability. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to put a fe w com­ ments on the record in regard to Bill 26, The Mr. Speaker, again with this particular legis­ Occupational Therapists Act. Having been a lation, it is very similar to the same legislation nurse that worked in the neurosciences area for a that has been put forward for nurses and for number of years, and seeing the incredible work physiotherapists. It is bringing in line and har­ done by occupational therapists, I am particu­ monizing the professional acts within the health larly pleased to be able to stand today and make care system in Manitoba. We look forward to some comments on this particular bill. anybody who will be bringing forward com­ ments about this particular act to committee, and Again, similar to the bill for the medical lab we look forward to hearing what they have to technologists, this bill, in fact, does similar say at that time. things in terms of creating a college for the professional organization, and, by having a So we are prepared now to move this college, we certainly see more public involve­ particular bill on to committee. ment on boards. The act, as well, will address disciplinary self-regulation and complaint pro­ Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the cesses and, hopefully, make it easier fo r the question? 3348 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

An Honourable Member: Question. have a great deal of respect for the work that these professions do within our health care Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is system, for the integral role they all play within Bill 26, The Occupational Therapists Act. their health care system.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the With this particular bill, Mr. Speaker, motion? [A greed] certainly when I think back to my student nurse days, I guess I have to admit that the dietary part Bill 28-The Registered Dietitians Act of our curriculum never was one that was of particular passion to me, but I certainly did have Mr. Speaker: Bill 28, The Registered Dietitians a teacher at that time, Miss Wong Moon, who Act, standing in the name of the honourable was an incredible teacher and brought a lot of Member for Charleswood. passion to the subject of the significance of food and nutrition and nutrients to patients and the Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. significance of that in helping people to get Speaker, again, another bill that is being brought better and to fe el better. It is certainly a pleasure forward to create a college for this particular fo r me to be able to stand today and reminisce organization, this professional organization, just a little bit about some of those fo nd similar to that that has been established for memories going back many years. Certainly with nurses and physios a number of years back, and the association having no difficulty with this, now all of the other professional bodies within with the incredible input that has been brought health care are being harmonized. forward by the association on this, and as again we have another professional group that faces It does involve more public input into many challenges within our health care system, a boards of directors. Of course, that is always group that is trying to make fo od in hospitals, important so that we are all hearing fr om the something that makes everybody happy, is not public on matters of importance to the public. always the easiest thing to do. Certainly we have been hearing more and more lately from people within the communities about * (15:20) their fe elings on health care, and certainly it is important to bring the public views into our Certainly, as a nursing supervisor, I can professional bodies and onto the boards, because recall a number of times late in the evenings or they will bring a unique perspective and a in the middle of the night having to go into the valuable perspective as they all address their hospital kitchen at St. Boniface Hospital, a challenges in dealing with the various challenges kitchen, I might add, that requires a great deal of that are before these professions. renovation, I think, to bring it in to modem times, a kitchen that has seen its challenges due It addresses the disciplinary, self-regulation to its age over time and certainly the challenges and complaint processes, and I understand from that dieticians and all the other food preparation the registered dietitians, in fact, that they have workers must face every day as they face the job been working on this particular legislation for a that is before them. number of years, that many, many groups have had an opportunity to have input into this So certainly having had to look around for particular bill, 35 groups, I believe, and that food within the kitchens and trying to find what there has been no opposition to it. It does regu­ we needed fo r patients sometimes in the middle late dietitians only and does bring this bill into of the night was sometimes a real challenge harmonywith other bills like it across Canada. trying to find our way around these old kitchens, and I certainly developed more of an appreci­ Again, Mr. Speaker, another professional ation of some of the work that they have had to group that certainly brings a lot of skill and do in the hospitals. expertise to the system, and I certainly do value the skills and expertise that they have and as So, Mr. Speaker, with those fe w comments, with the other professions within health care we look forward to the comments that might be July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3349 brought forward during committee, and we look Mr. Mackintosh: I am pleased to rise in the forward to hearing from the public on this par­ House to introduce second reading of this bill, ticular issue at committee. Mr. Speaker, which has two principal areas of amendment. The first is to provide a time frame Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the ques­ within which the public report resulting from an tion? inquest conducted under the act must be com­ pleted; second, it clarifies the circumstances in An Honourable Member: Question. which the Chief Medical Examiner is required to assess the quality or the standard of care and Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is services provided by an agency under The Child Bill 28, The Registered Dietitians Act. and Family Services Act. In addition, there are some further amendments to provide clarifi­ Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the cation with respect to practices in the Chief motion? [A greed} Medical Examiner's office.

The amendments concerning inquest reports House Business have two broad policy objectives: first, to provide the Provincial Court, members of the Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House public and families affected by a fatality in this Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you please call province with a time frame within which a report debate on second readings, Bill 18? Would you on the fatality can be expected. Reports prepared please call second readings, Bills 32 and 48? by members of the Provincial Court are very often helpful in making legislative policy and Mr. Speaker: First of all, the honourable Gov­ administrative changes to avoid fatalities in the ernment House Leader had requested resuming future. They are also important to permit fami­ debate on second reading of Bill 18, and now lies to have a sense of closure after the deathof a you are asking fo r second reading on 32, 48. Did loved one. For those reasons, it is in the public you want it in that order, or did you want it in interest that such reports be made available as the changed sequence that you have called? soon as reasonably possible.

The second broad policy objective involves Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, we could do 32 the need for transparency and an element of and 48, and then we will deal with the further accountability in the process. It is important that bills. the public have access to information with respect to when the inquest has been completed Mr. Speaker: Okay. We will do second reading and when it is expected that the report will be on Bills 32 and 48, and then we will move on to available. Extensions to the time frame may other bills. occasionally be required, and in those circum­ stances it is equally important for the public to SECOND READINGS know that an extension has been granted and when the report can then be expected. Bill 32-The Fatality Inquiries Amendment Act I will briefly describe these amendments as they relate to judicial inquests. A provincial Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice judge presiding at an inquest shall complete the and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Family Services and Housing inquest report within six months of the com­ (Mr. Sale), that Bill 32, The Fatality Inquiries pletion of the inquest. This means six months Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia Loi sur les from when all evidence and submissions are enquetes medico-legales, be now read a second received by the judge. The provincial judge shall time and be referred to a committee of this request an extension of time from the Chief House. Judge of the Provincial Court, if an extension is required, prior to the end of the six-month period. The Chief Judge may grant the extension Motion presented. 3350 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002 of time for completion of the inquest report fo r have conducted with members of the Provincial no more than three months but may extend that Court. I would like to express my appreciation to for a longer period if the inquest involves highly the acting chief judge Bruce Miller as well as complex matters. members of the Provincial Court fo r their valuable input. We also reviewed similar legis­ Written notice is to be given to all persons lation in Newfoundland and Ontario, and were with standing at the inquest. The Chief Judge greatly assisted by the models that have been can also relieve the presiding judge of duties or developed in those provinces. reduce duties as the inquest report is complete. The Chief Judge shall refer the failure of the I might add, Mr. Speaker, that this presiding judge to complete the inquest report legislation couples very well with initiatives by within the extended period to the judicial inquiry the former Chief Judge, by the Provincial Court board in accordance with The Provincial Court itself, which has now made available to Pro­ Act unless the Chief Judge determines that the vincial Court judges time for completing inquest inability to complete the report is due to extra­ reports. ordinary circumstances. In those circumstances, the Chief Judge may grant an additional exten­ Now with regard to the portion of the bill sion. Once again, persons with standing at the that deals with medical examiner assessments of inquest must be notifiedof such an extension. agencies, we note that last year a multi­ disciplinary working group of social service and If the Chief Judge presides at an inquest and health care providers, government officials, requires an extension of time to complete the including the Child Advocate, met to review the inquest report, this request for extension will be requirement for agency reviews when a child in made to the Chief Justice of the Court of Queen's the care of a child and family services agency or Bench in accordance with the proposed amend­ a parent or guardian was in receipt of services ments. As well, the Chief Judge will include in from an agency. The working group recom­ the annual report of the Provincial Court statis­ mended that two amendments be made to the tics with respect to the number of inquests and act, and the first was to ensure that reviews are time required for completion of the inquest undertaken when the child or the parent or reports. guardian was in care or received services fr om an agency within one year before the child's In essence therefore, the bill establishes a death. six-month time frame as the norm but builds in a degree of flexibility which must be recognized, The committee also recommended that ser­ Mr. Speaker, coupled with checks and balances vices to siblings should not be a factor in trig­ sufficient to ensure that inquest reports on com­ gering the agency review process. Again, Mr. plex matters and in more straightforward cases Speaker, this was really to-and I guess I am will both be received in a timely fashion. interpreting the concerns of this working group­ fo cus the legislation on risk and provide a I would like to emphasize that in the clarification. Both of the recommendations from development of this bill we have endeavoured to the working group are therefore included in this strike an appropriate balance between the public amendment. interest in receiving timely reports on the one hand and the reality that members of the The amendment will also apply to any Provincial Court, who must hear these inquests, reports required under the fo rmer act which have have an array of equally important responsi­ not been completed. bilities in the hearing of cases under the Crim­ inal Code, as well as alleged infractions under * (15:30) other fe deral statutes and a significant number of provincial statutes. In essence, these amendments therefore ensure that the priority for assessments focusses In the development of this balance, we have on the services to the child who has died and/or benefited significantly fr om consultations we the parent or guardian who has provided direct July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3351 care to the child. It is important to ensure that seconded by the Minister of Education (Mr. our efforts are fo cussed to ensure that meaning­ Caldwell), that Bill 48, The Legal Profession ful reports can be completed in a timely way for Act; Loi sur Ia profession d'avocat, be now read use by the Minister of Family Services and a second time and be referred to a committee of Housing and by Child and Family Services this House. agenctes. Motion presented. The Chief Medical Examiner has also asked Mr. Mackintosh: I am pleased to introduce this that the act clearly define when an autopsy report bill, Mr. Speaker. Indeed, it is a new act which is must be submitted. An autopsy is not complete an update and modernization of The Law until all consequential testing such as bac­ Society Act which also deals with the elimi­ teriological, serological, et cetera, has been nation of future Q.C. appointments and clarifies performed. If there are delays in completing all the role that the Law Society is expected to play the tests required for a particular autopsy, the in the province. current 30-day submission period would not start until all those tests are completed. The amend­ The new legislation adds a clause that ment reflects the importance of conducting all defines the purpose of the Law Society, namely aspects of autopsies in a more timely, expedi­ that it exists to uphold and protect the public tious manner and will define with greater interest in the delivery of legal services in the certainty the time period for the submission of province with competence, integrity and inde­ these reports. It will be 60 days from the com­ pendence. While this was always understood to mencement rather than the completion of the be the Society's purpose, it was not expressly autopsy, subject to the discretion of the Chief stated in the former legislation. Medical Examiner to extend the time period for a further 30 days. The Society, which was founded in 1871, is responsible for regulating the practice of law in Another amendment in this act allows the this province in the public interest, Mr. Speaker. minister, on the recommendation of the Chief Its members, of course, are Manitoba lawyers, Medical Examiner, to appoint persons who are articling students and law students, and its gov­ duly qualified medical practitioners as medical erning body consists of 25 elected or appointed examiners. The Chief Medical Examiner will benchers. continue to be appointed by the Lieutenant­ Governor-in-Council. The practice of appointing new Q.C.s in Manitoba has already ended. In January of 2001, The last amendment will increase the fine a survey of the legal profession showed most for impeding any actions of the Chief Medical respondents were dissatisfied with the way Examiner or staff performing duties under the appointments were made. The designation will, act, upon conviction, from $1,000 to $5,000. however, remain in place for 183 of Manitoba's 1739 lawyers already assigned the title. Mr. Speaker, I look fo rward to seeing this bill go through the stages of this Legislative Mr. Speaker, this does, as well, provide a Assembly. plain-language rewrite of the legislation. As well, it permits the Law Society to make rules in Thank you. respect of some administrative matters rather than having them set out in the act; for example, Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): I move, with regard to voting procedures for bencher seconded by the Member fo r Steinbach (Mr. Jim elections. Penner), that debate be adjourned. Mr. Speaker, I look forward to the partici­ Motion agreed to. pation of members in the consideration of this legislation. Thank you. Bill 48-The Legal Profession Act Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): I move, Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice seconded by the Member fo r Steinbach (Mr. Jim and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, Penner), that debate be adjourned. 3352 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Mo tion agreed to. We believe this is a manageable payment from Manitoba Hydro's perspective that will not *** impact rates. This is especially the case because payments are based on a percentage of Hydro's Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House net earnings.Thank you very much. Leader): Mr. Speaker, we can continue with second readings. If you would call bills in the Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, I following order: Bills 41, 45, 49, 36. move, seconded by the member fr om Fort Garry, that debate be adjourned on Bill 41. Bi11 41-The Manitoba Hydro Amendment Act Motion agreed to. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Bill 45-The Budget Implementation and Tax Health (Mr. Chomiak), that Bill 41, The Statutes Amendment Act, 2002 Manitoba Hydro Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia Loi sur l'Hydro-Manitoba, be now read a Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. second time and be referred to a committee of Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of this House. Justice (Mr. Mackintosh), that Bill 45, The Budget Implementation and Tax Statutes Motion presented. Amendment Act, 2002; Loi d'execution du budget de 2002 et modifiant diverses dispo­ Mr. Selinger: Bill 41 amends The Manitoba sitions legislatives en matiere de fiscalite, be Hydro Act to prevent Hydro to distribute up to now read a second time and be referred to a $288 million of its retained earnings to the committee of this House. Government by the end of its 2003-2004 fiscal year. Members of the House will know that Mo tion presented. Manitoba faces exceptional fiscal challenges. First, the economic slowdown of 2001 was Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, this bill implements further magnified by the terrorist acts of Sep­ various measures announced in the '02 Budget. tember 11. The results of the slowdown are Part I amends The Corporation Capital Tax Act clearly evident in fe deral projections fo r personal to repeal outdated provisions and clarify how and corporate income tax revenues. Second, interest is to be calculated. there is a significant impact from the fe deral accounting error, which was only reported to the Part 2 amends The Gasoline Tax Act to provinces in late January of this year. clarify how interest is to be calculated and enhance collection measures. In order to address these challenges in a way that maintain this Government's commitment to Part 3 amends The Health and Post­ vital health and education services, continued Secondary Education Tax Levy Act to improve payments for general purpose and pension reporting requirements, clarify how interest is liabilities, and to deliver our promised tax relief, calculated and enhance collection measures. the April Budget called for special payments from Hydro, totalling $288 million. Bill 41 Part 4 amends The Income Tax Act to indicates how the $288 million is determined. implement the income tax changes announced in One hundred and fifty million is based on the the '02 Budget, amend the formula for allocating estimated $214 million in net income realized in personal income tax revenue to municipalities Hydro by Hydro in the year 2001 -2002. The and allow for the recovery for overpayments, balance will come from 75 percent of Hydro's and allow fo r the specified personal information net income in '02-03 and '03-04. In no instance to be used fo r the purposes of the act and related shall payments from Hydro in this period exceed purposes of the federal Income Tax Act and $288 million. make minor corrections. July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3353

Part 5 amends The Mining Tax Act to The Purchase of Winnipeg Hydro Act; Loi sur clarifyhow interest is to be calculated. l'achat de Winnipeg Hydro, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of Part 6 amends The Motive Fuel Tax Act to this House. amend the tax changes announced in the '02 Mo tion presented. budget, as well as to clarifyhow interest is to be calculated and to enhance collection measures. Mr. Selinger: I am pleased to be able to bring this bill to second reading. This bill is indeed Part 7 amends The Provincial-Municipal Manitoba history in the making. Manitoba Tax Sharing Act to allow the Minister of Hydro's proposed acquisition of Winnipeg Finance to minimize fluctuations in amounts Hydro will provide many benefits fo r the citi­ allocated to municipalities by deferring increases zens of Manitoba. There will be a guaranteed and setting them off against future reductions. revenue stream fo r the city. Needed capital upgrades to Winnipeg Hydro infrastructure will Part 8 amends The Retail Sales Tax Act to now be part of the overall capital planning for implement changes announced in the '02 budget, Manitoba Hydro. clarify the taxation of telecommunication service involving dedicated lines, clarify how interest is A new downtown state-of-the-art head to be calculated and enhance collection measures office will be constructed in the next five years, and make minor amendments. bringing jobs and people to our capital's down­ town. More PowerSmart opportunities will be Part 9 amends The Revenue Act to enhance available in the fo rmer Winnipeg Hydro juris­ the collection measures under Part 1 of that Act, diction for both businesses and residential clarify how interest is to be calculated and participants in the old city of Winnipeg juris­ extend land transfer tax exemptions for transfers diction. Efficiencies and operations and syner­ involving spouses, to transfers involving gies and amalgamation will be passed on to common-law partners. ratepayers and shareholders, the people of Manitoba. Part 10 amends The Tobacco Tax Act to implement the tax changes announced in the '02 Mr. Speaker, this is a good-news story for budget, as well as to clarify how interest is to be Manitoba and Manitobans. I would like to calculated and enhance collection measures. congratulate the people at both utilities for nego­ tiating the details of the proposed acquisition. The bill also amends The Financial There have been a lot of meetings and many Administration Act to broaden the powers of the challenges to overcome in the process. They Minister of Finance, to make regulations respect­ have remembered, in their dealing, that they ing interest on the debts owing to the Govern­ were acting in the best interest of Manitobans. ment. The bill also repeals provisions of The Statute Law Amendment Taxation Act 2000, Mr. Speaker, this legislation provides a Statutes of Manitoba 2000, Chapter 39, that have necessary legislative framework to make this not been proclaimed in fo rce. deal possible. I am proud to have this arrange­ ment, debate it here in the Legislature, the high­ * (15:40) est court of the people in this province. A debate Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): I move, seconded of such significant public policy issues belongs by the Member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Smith), that here in frontof the people's representatives. debate be adjourned. I look forward to debating this issue with my Motion agreed to. colleagues in this Legislature and to hearing their views. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Bill 49-The Purchase of Winnipeg Hydro Act Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): I Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): I move, seconded move, seconded by the Minister of Family by the Member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Smith), that Services and Housing (Mr. Sale), that Bill 49, debate be adjourned. 3354 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Motion agreed to. standards, describe regulation and to obtain an

* * * operating licence. At present, Mr. Deputy Speaker, only public water systems have to be Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House licensed and semi-public water systems do not Leader): Mr. Speaker, I can just give you the have to be licensed. full list of second readings in the order that we can call. Second readings: 36, 43 and 50. In other words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are broadening the regime of water quality safety Bi11 36-TheDrinking Water Safety Act that has built up over the decades to include more formal and stringent structures as it applies Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. to semi-public water systems, which I think and Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of which I suggest is in the public interest and is Justice (Mr. Mackintosh), that Bill 36, The supported by most Manitobans. Drinking Water Safety Act; Loi sur Ia qualite de l'eau potable, be now read a second time and be I just point out there is essentially three referred to a committee of this House. formal sources of water supply in this province at the semi-public system, which is about, I Mo tion presented. believe, 1500 systems that could be surface water or can be serviced or can be well water but Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, this bill builds have attachments of 15 or less. And then there upon significant work that has been undertaken are the private wells, of which, if memory serves in the last several years with respect to quality of me correctly, is 50 000 in the province. water in the province of Manitoba. It builds on the decision of the Government to reinstate sub­ This bill would require that a permit be sidies for individuals to test well water. It builds obtained in order to construct or alter a public or on the establishment of a drinking water office. semi-public water system. It will require public This legislation, we have taken some of the and semi-public water suppliers to conduct a lessons from Walkerton and some of the lessons comprehensive infrastructure assessment every fromNorth Battleford, and we have incorporated five years and more often if required by officials. them into legislation for all Manitobans. If there are safety concerns,they provide a report on the results of the assessment. If necessary, Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Sp eaker, in the based on the results of the assessment, a supplier Chair may be required to conduct repairs, upgrades or other work, or to carry out further investigations. The bill will formally establish the drops of Again, built upon experience in other juris­ drinking water, formally that is, to administer dictions in recent reports, this important main­ and enforce the act to provide guidance, tech­ taining and improvement of infrastructure and nical expertise and up-to-date information on repair ability is significant. educational materials about drinking water safe­ ty to water suppliers and the public. It will share This Bill 36 will also require public and the expertise and facilitate co-operative efforts in semi-public water suppliers to disinfect the drinking water programs and policies with other water supply and test for disinfected residuals jurisdictions of government and other indi­ through bacteriological and other testing that is viduals. bacteriological in other testing, to make and The bill will require a report about the maintain written records related to the operation activities of the office be laid and presented to of the water system and the sampling conducted, the Legislative Assembly. The bill will enable and provide reports to officials. Those reports the employment of drinking water offices to are obviously self-explanatory in their need. carry out monitoring and enforcement activities that provide it with improved inspection powers. The bill will require laboratories to submit the results of water testing to officials and to It will require public and semi-public water immediately notify officials by live telephone suppliers to comply with drinking water quality conversation where there is a serious health risk July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3355 for non-compliance with the water quality advisories where water is or may be unsafe fo r standard. It will also require a laboratory which domestic purposes unless it is boiled or identifies a serious health risk in a private water otherwise disinfected. system to notify the owner as soon as possible. They will require that where an advisory is Therein, Mr. Deputy Speaker, are two sig­ issued the affected water is not served to the nificant changes in the act and two significant public for domestic purposes or in food or requirements: the requirement for live reporting beverage unless the person providing the water, and the need for a direct messaging, direct fo od or beverage has taken the action specified communication of these results is part of the in the advisory. It will enable the implemen­ experience and part of the recommendations that tation of recovery initiatives if they are came out of the Walkerton and North Battleford considered appropriate. It will enable the estab­ experience. lishment of a provincial drinking water quality database to assist in the monitoring and tracking This breakdown in communication we of drinking water analysis and in identifying believe can be remedied by having this structure drinking water quality trends and risks. in place. The bill will also require officials to issue drinking water safety orders where water It will also enable information from the from the water system may or may not become a database to be shared for the purpose of renting, health risk. Among other things, this includes controlling or dealing with risks and will also orders to undertake investigation tests or analy­ prohibit the construction or operation of non­ ses, perform repairs or other work, cleanse or potable systems except in accordance with the disinfect anything specified in the order, stop regulations. delivery of water from the water system, provide users with an alternative supply ofwater, or stop This, as I say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, signif­ an activity or remediate a contaminant or other icant changes. What it does is it codifies many material that is adversely affecting the water practices. It expands practices to provide for source for the water system. water safety. It builds on the studies and the conclusions of commissions both in Battleford This bill includes an appeal mechanism with and Walkerton. It builds on the work of the respect to orders issued by officials that will Government already undertaken, if, fo r example, enable a ministerial order to be issued requiring as I have already indicated, the initiatives with a water supplier to hire an interim operator if respect to providing subsidy, the initiatives for necessary. Most significantly the bill will pro­ the establishment of a quality water office, the vide whistle-blower protection for individuals advisories, the initiatives on the part of the who report violation of the act to officials. Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin) to pro­ vide enhanced, incredibly enhanced training that Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is also something has been provided by the Government for water that obviously came out as a result of the recent quality operators, and all of this finds its way inquiries into water quality supply across the into this legislation. This legislation will not country. We are very pleased that this is the obviously be operative today. It will take several second whistle-blowing legislation that I am years fo r full implementation. familiar with in the health care field. For example, the database is being accumu­ * (15:50) lated. It will take some time to establish a database, but Manitobans can be assured once Of course we brought in ground-breaking implementation occurs they will have a fairly whistle protection legislation in terms of our accurate database across the province with the Protection fo r Persons in Care Act. Now, in ability to track, with the ability to do fo llow-up. terms of the water quality act, we are providing So I present this bill to the Legislature and look whistle-blower protection fo r individuals who fo rward to comments and advice from all mem­ report violations of the act to officials. The bill bers in committee hearings to ensure speedy will also enable officials to issue boil-water passage of legislation that we think has 3356 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002 significant impacts on the quality of life and the debating this bill. It is also the responsibility of quality of health for all Manitobans. the minister to outline who and what quali­ fications those individuals might have in order to Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): be able to accomplish the tasks which this Mr. Deputy Speaker, in regard to this legislation, legislation, which I might say has taken years while the minister is in the House, I want to upon years to come forward with into the House congratulate him in regard to, effectively, the for debate. It is a good and noble cause. How­ intent of this bill; however, it is fraught with ever, without the ability to implement and to errors as far as implementation goes. enforce, we might as well not even debate this legislation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I look to the second page and effectively the legislation speaks to the It is with a great deal of concern that I rise drinking water officer whose responsibility this on this very first occasion to speak at second entire piece of legislation rests. The definition of reading because we in Portage Ia Prairie have the drinking water officer means a person first-hand knowledge of the shortage of health appointed as a drinking water officer under sec­ officers here in the province. Our health office, tion 6(2) of this legislation. the environmental inspector, or however it may be termed and known to the public, essentially Mr. Deputy Speaker, under section 6(2), the these are the same individuals that are respon­ Appointment of the drinking water officers: sible for protecting the environment, as well as "The minister may appoint any person, or a class doing the inspections for food preparation, as of persons, as a drinking water officer." well as water quality.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, this legislation does I know the Minister of Conservation (Mr. not detail who will be classified as a drinking Lathlin) is listening, and I appreciate that, but water officer, and without further clarification I the amalgamation of officers under the environ­ do not believe we should even be debating this ment as well as natural resources, there were bill. Currently, the drinking water quality issues officers that were charged with responsibilities are the responsibility of the health officers on water quality. Not very many officers came throughout the province of Manitoba. into the Department of Conservation that had the qualifications to do dual duty. That, effectively, Mr. Deputy Speaker, currently we only have is to inspect for the environmental concerns, 28 health officers that are qualified to do as this whether they be something to do with fossil legislation is asking, 28 individuals. I also want fu els and the contaminants that exists with them to point out that these 28 individuals are also as it pertains to soil and water, but that environ­ charged with the responsibility of inspecting mental officer that is charged with looking at commercial kitchens, whether they be restaurant water quality must also come from the health or institutional, as well as they have the side. So I speak very specifically to the ministers responsibility for looking after any and all other that are responsible for the quality of water here health issues that may arise. in the province and state to them very seriously that you do not have the staffto enforce even the I may speak specifically to the one that we existing legislation, not only to add more are addressing or concerned with right at the responsibility to those individuals. present time, and that being the West Nile virus. Again, health officers are responsible for making Mr. Sp eaker in the Chair certain that situations that are in the public best interest are addressed and addressed in a very Mr. Speaker, I state once again that there are speedy fashion. only 28 individuals that exist outside the city of Winnipeg with the skills to effectively enforce Mr. Deputy Speaker, 28 individuals will not this legislation, and without any further additions be able to enforce this legislation, and without to their numbers, this legislation will not be the minister's detail as to what he will consider enforced and cannot physically be implemented. as a water officer, we might as well not even be So I am stating that we perhaps are wasting our July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3357 time and breath here in the Legislative Assembly want to be in, and that is well known through the discussing something that is only a smoke press as occurring in Walkerton, Ontario. screen, and is only there to achieve political gain because there are, to date, no concrete efforts * (16:00) being made by this Government to put in place the resources in which to enforce this. So, Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the minister's intention. However, I believe that Speaking specifically once again of Portage prior to any further calling of this bill to the la Prairie, the Conservation office that was Legislative Assembly, we as members of the charged with the responsibility for the environ­ Assembly must have the assurances of the ment as well as the health officer responsibilities minister that he is quite prepared to put those had three able-bodied individuals with two persons in place who have the qualifications. It support staff. Currently, Mr. Speaker, both sup­ is not good enough for us as members of this port staff have left, and all three health officers Legislative Assembly to just trust in the and environment officers have left as well. So, minister's appointment without any qualifi­ effectively, we have no one in Portage la Prairie cations given to that particular appointment. We and, I might just add, was virtually, as my have to be assured that those individuals have understanding goes, the busiest in all of rural the qualifications and have the training in order Manitoba. We have lost individuals to other for them to conduct what their responsibilities opportunities, the federal government, the City are, as called for by this legislation. of Winnipeg and to retirement. So, hence, we have no health officer with the qualifications to Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would like enforce current legislation, let alone additional to rest in regard to debate on second reading, and information. hopefully when this bill next comes to the House and the minister has the ability to address this Now, the Government will say that they are particular piece of legislation, that he will have under a hiring freeze, and that may be very well the answers which I have asked here in the and good in regard to how the Budget is House today, the qualifications of the individuals structured this year. But I look to the ministers who are referred to in the legislation as the and ask the question: Are we not considerate of drinking water officers and also, too, to have the what positions within the civil service are left assurances of the minister that the individuals vacant? Are we going to leave critical positions who are hired are hired in numbers that will without individuals in those positions? Right satisfy the requirements of existing legislation, now, I daresay, Mr. Speaker, we are leaving not only to consider additional legislation and critical positions without individuals occupying responsibilities. those positions simply because this Government does not have any way of recognizing what is a Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. vital position and what perhaps is a position that can remain vacant without detrimental effect to Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Mr. Speaker, I the services that are counted upon by Mani­ move, seconded by the Member fo r Lakeside obans. (Mr. Enns), that debate be adjourned.

So, I hope the Minister of Health (Mr. Mo tion agreed to. Chomiak) has been listening, because it is a real concern to the residents of Portage Ia Prairie. It Bill 43-The Polar Bear Protection Act is a concern to residents of central Manitoba, and indeed it is a concern of all Manitobans, that the Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conserva­ quality of water is vitally important. However, tion): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the without qualified individuals to do the inspection Minister of Labour and Immigration (Ms. and to do the sampling and to make certain that Barrett), that Bill 43, The Polar Bear Protection our legislation that already exists is enforced, we Act, be now read a second time and can be will be in a position that I do not think any of us referred to a committee of this House. 3358 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Motion presented. The provincial, national and international concern over the care and use of polar bears in Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, the polar bear is not captivity has led me to believe that there is a only a majestic animal but an important symbol need to expand and strengthen legislation of northern Manitoba's sub-Arctic region. respecting the export and use of Manitoba polar bears. Bill 43 addresses the seriousness that Manitoba places on matters respecting the dis­ Public controversy arose when a Mexican position and use of live polar bears. Currently, circus was charged under United States law fo r placing an orphaned polar bear in a zoo is seen cruelty to animals while touring their polar bear as being in the best interests of the bear if the act in Puerto Rico. Manitobans have since standards in the current policy and procedure expressed their concerns over the facilities and apply. care being provided to the bears and the reporting by the press that three of the bears may These standards are endorsed by a number have originated in Manitoba. of international agencies, including the North American Zoological Association. Current In the past, polar bears that posed a threat to standards are policy only. This means they do life and property in Churchill and the occasional not have the fo rce of law, and they do not orphaned cub that would have died without necessarily have to be complied with. Under the human intervention have been donated to zoos proposed act, the standards for facilities and care capable of providing humane treatment and a of captive polar bears will be made in the fo rm high quality home for the animals. of regulations. This will give the standards the force of law and will make compliance with Currently, the options considered in them mandatory. This means that, if placing a descending order of priority are: first, to release polar bear in a zoo is in the best interests of the the animal to the wild; secondly, to find foster bear, a permit will not be issued until the zoo parents to act as surrogates, however, this is still meets Manitoba standards and agrees, in writing, being researched; and, thirdly, placing the to meet those standards as long as they have the animal in captivity fo r a legitimate educational, bear. scientific or conservation purpose and, as a last resort, euthanization. The proposed act, through the regulations, will give the fo rce of law to matters such as, but not limited to, when a polar bear can be placed The Government of Manitoba makes every in captivity, permanent marking of polar bears effort to protect our native wildlife. My depart­ intended for captivity, facility standards that ment is co-operating with the Born Free must exist before a permit can be issued, the Foundation in an experiment in the Churchill level of care that must be provided for a captive area to reintroduce orphan cubs to surrogate polar bear, the use that may be made of a polar mothers. If successful, orphan cubs may never bear while in captivity, the procedure that must need to be placed into a permanent captivity. be followed if a facility decides that it no longer wants to keep a Manitoba polar bear. Unfortunately, there remain circumstances where the alternatives are no longer viable and The Wildlife Act currently prohibits the donation to accredited facilities is considered. killing and capturing, possession, buying, sell­ Only then are orphaned polar bear cubs con­ ing, importing or exporting of a polar bear sidered for placement in the zoo. Since adult without having first obtained a permit. The bears do not adapt readily to captivity, the last proposed act will not change this level of pro­ time a Manitoba polar bear was placed in a zoo tection or legal status. was in 1996. The Province has made a number of efforts to ensure the best care and treatment of Mr. Speaker, this Government takes the polar bears. However, once a polar bear leaves humane treatment of our wildlife, both within Manitoba, it is difficult to monitor or prevent and outside of our province, very seriously. further trade or sale. Future generations should be able to enjoy the July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3359 natural wonders that this province has to offer. can get on a tour, which is a tundra buggy. The Please be assured that this Government is tundra buggy has huge wheels. They are dedicated to protecting Manitoba's wildlife, and probably eight or ten feet high, many of them, we are committed to bringing forward meaning­ and it is probably almost two and a half metres. ful legislation. This bill demonstrates this com­ mitment. Thank you. You know that those tundra buggies can accommodate, easily, 50 people. They do not * (16:10) sink when they cross the lakes in Churchill. The lakes are only two to three fe et of water because Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, I permafrost exists below that. So you can drive thought, maybe, we should just add a fe w words across any lake with a tundra buggy, never to the minister's bill on polar bears. I have worry about a pothole or anything, because it personally had opportunities to visit the polar will only form at the warmest of the summer. bears in Churchill and thereabouts. It is a very Even though it is 15 Celsius today in Churchill, remarkable animal, but the first time I saw a it will only form up two to three fe et of water. polar bear it was a rug. It was a rug by legitimate By the way, there are no fish because the fish means, and it needed to be that because it could cannot exist in a permafrost atmosphere. no longer sustain itself. Mr. Speaker, the dangers to the environment Mr. Speaker, obviously, this bill has been in Churchill are far more involved with geese triggered by a concern, expressed through the than with polar bears, but the polar bears are a media, about some bears that were mistreated. real threat. When we started to visit around with None of us like that. We all fe el it is illegitimate a friend who is a tour guide there, we found that to have polar bears in unnecessary heat. We are the polar bears do not know which property they sure that is of great concern to animal lovers should be living on and where they are not everywhere, and I think everyone here is very wanted. So, at any one time, they will wander concerned that polar bears receive proper into the town of Churchill. Well, that is pretty treatment. scary fo r kids going to school. The law for schools in Churchill is such that the children are However, Mr. Speaker, this bill only deals not even allowed to walk one block to school. If with a fe w polar bears. I am surprised that we do you live one block from the school, you have to not deal with some of the real issues that exist in be bussed. and around Churchill in regard to the polar bears. This bill would politically satisfy a small They also told us that, when we walk group of people who religiously read the news­ through the town, never to walk past the comer papers, but it does not address the real dangers of a building, always to stop before you reach that exist for the polar bears. This bill is the comer of the building and peek around the primarily in response to the media, and it is corner. If you just boldly walk past the comer of primarily protection of the Government for its the building, and a mother and her cubs are political backside. there, you probably will not survive the incident.

Mr. Speaker, some of the people in Mr. Speaker, I wanted to speak briefly about Manitoba only know about polar bears because some of the challenges to the polar bear. Of the picture appears on the Labatt's ad. We really course, all the talk about captivity, I am won­ need to know more than that about polar bears dering if the minister realizes that, every year, because it is, like the minister said, a significant there are dozens and maybe hundreds of bears symbol of the province of Manitoba, and we are taken into captivity in Churchill. They have a famous fo r it. If anybody here has not been to place in Churchill called Polar Bear Jail. You Churchill and visited the polar bears, they need need to go there and see Polar Bear Jail because to do that. You need to see the polar bears. They any bear that they can catch goes to jail. are such a magnificent and stately animal. Then Amazingly enough, the bears in jail, in captivity to study their life cycle is even far more in Churchill, do not get fe d. They go into interesting than that. If you go to Churchill, you hibernationif you do not fe ed them, and they are 3360 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002 better off if they are not fe d, but they will go up So, Mr. Speaker, I am thinking that if some to three months with no food. So it is really an of the minister's people would study the situation interesting thing to talk about captivity here. I in Churchill, first of all they would find out that think the bill might contradict itself at some we have all kinds of captivity. Secondly, we pick point because we are putting bears into captivity them up with helicopters with nets, we tran­ all the time, and I am sure we do not have a quilize them and carry them to the jail. We have licence to do that. It is kind of interesting. large cages and they are in and around Churchill where we capture them, and so there is a significant amount of trafficking in bears and Then the other thing is, Mr. Speaker, that the handling of bears. bears do not leave Churchill. They go in a big circle. They go north across the ice, then they It would be interesting if we could get our come westward and then they come back on the fa cts straight on this thing and certainly this bill shore of Hudson Bay and come back to does not help us understand the care and Churchill. They work themselves in a big circle, nourishment of polar bears. It just addresses the and in that big circle they end up getting stopped complaints by the media about a fo olish inci­ at Churchill because they cannot move further dent, an unfortunate incident, but the real need until the ice forms. Once the ice fo rms, they of polar bears and the issues about polar bears is move out on the ice, and then they are no longer survival of polar bears in a global-warming soci­ a threat. Once they move out on the ice they fill ety, the confrontation between people and polar themselves up on harp seals, and of course, the bears, the tourist industry effect on polar bears. seals provide dinner for them, breakfast, lunch. None of these things have really been addressed. They are constantly eating those harp seals, and So this bill is okay as far as we are concerned, much as we say we want to protect the harp but it certainly does not address polar bears. seals, they are very important to the cycle for the Thank you, Mr. Speaker. polar bear. Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I Mr. Speaker, I took a helicopter and toured move, seconded by the honourable member fr om the shores of Hudson Bay, and we probably Minnedosa, that debate be adjourned. disturbed more polar bears in that one day than I can count. Also, we took the tundra buggies and Motion agreed to. went up and down the shores, and we also ended up moving polar bears around. These polar bears Bill 50-The Resource Tourism Operators Act are not being fed, and so they should not be moved around. So it is a threat to move these Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conserva­ polar bears all over the place when, in fact, they tion): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the are in a situation where they need to be leftalone Minister of Labour and Immigration (Ms. and left at peace. Barrett), that Bill 50, The Resource Tourism Operators Act, be now read a second time and be Now, as far as capturing polar bears fo r zoos referred to a committee of this House. and so on is concerned, I was told by naturalists who were studying polar bears when I was in Mo tion presented. Churchill that it was normal for a polar bear to have triplets and that only one or two would Mr. Lathlin: I am pleased to present The survive. The survivors would certainly not be the Resource Tourism Operators Act, Bill 50. Mr. runt. The runt of the litter would not survive. Speaker, currently the outfitting industry of However, the runt of the litter, if taken into Manitoba is governed by The Tourism and captivity and cared for properly, can easily Recreation Act. This act was last amended in become a zoo animal. Instead of having to die on 1988. The outfitting industry at that time was the shores of Hudson Bay, it can become a zoo very different from the industry that we are animal and you are actually giving that animal a dealing with today. At that time, outfitting was life instead of letting it be destroyed through its still, fo r the most part, a secondary activity for lack of ability to compete with its siblings. most outfitters, not their main source of income. July 15, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3361

The main outfitting activities were hunting and protocol standards specific to the needs of that fishing. Since that time, the industry has sector of the industry. changed, not only in size but in character. It has changed over the decades fr om a roughing-it It is important that this fast emerging tour­ experience to some of the most sophisticated ism opportunity be afforded the recognition and first-class lodges to be found anywhere. protection that it requires to realize its long-term * (16:20) potential in our province. Contemporary legisla­ tion is needed to allow us to make decisions on To put this in perspective, Mr. Speaker, let the basis of resource conservation and sus­ me share with you just a fe w figures which tainable development, including taking into underscore the type and growth we have experi­ account the sustainability of an area's wildlife enced. In 1989, for example, there were 105 and other natural resources and the impact on lodges and 121 outfitters. That was in 1989. In recreational activities in the area. Decision­ 1999, these numbers had increased to 162 lodges making authority over the granting of licences and 328 outfitters. Presently, we have approxi­ and permits will be delegated from the minister mately 525 licensed outfitters operating in the to the administrator of resource tourism, a posi­ province who contribute in excess of $90 million tion newly created under this legislation. This to the provincial economy annually. change will make the licensing process more Tourists to our province now have a broad effective and more time efficient. spectrum of activities to enjoy when choosing Manitoba as their vacation destination. Our out­ The second change is in the appeal process. fitters offer a wide range of specialized activities The appeals committee will now have the power ranging from fishing and hunting to wildlife of final decision making in the matter of appeals. watching, whitewater rafting and cultural Better enforcement capability is required, espe­ tourism. cially, to deal with the illegal operators of sub­ In 1993, a ministerial authority fo r those standard facilities that have such a negative portions of The Tourism and Recreation Act impact on the entire industry and with operators dealing with resource-based tourism was who conduct business without a licence. The transferred to the Minister of Natural Resources. provisions in this act will not have a negative The outfitting industry has grown considerably impact on operators who respect our resource in size and complexity. The need to manage laws. It will only affect illegal operators and resource opportunities and to control illegal those who violate resource legislation. operators and substandard facilities is essential. The present act is inadequate and ineffective for The maximum fine levels are dramatically managing this evolving industry. Additionally, higher than the existing fine levels. Under the there is no one act that deals directly with these existing act, an individual can only be fined a activities. For these reasons, I have introduced maximum of $200, and a corporation $500. This The Resource Tourism Operators Act, which has has proven not only ineffective as a deterrent, been developed in consultation with the Mani­ but it is viewed by some as simply a cost of toba Lodges & Outfitters Association which doing business. The new act has fine levels of up recognized the need for legislation. The new act to $10,000 fo r an individual and/or six months in will license outfitters, theirservi ces and facilities jail, and $20,000 for a corporation. The new fine that use fish, wildlife and the ecotourism levels are consistent with existing fine levels in industry. other resource-based legislation in my depart­ ment and are commensurate with the severity of Ecotourism operations will now be licensed the infractions. in the same manner that outfitters have been licensed in the past. We will have the ability to acknowledge and address, through legislation, In general, the new act will reflect our the differences in the two types of operation, current and existing practices of administering consumptive and non-consumptive, and develop this complex industry. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 3362 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 15, 2002

Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, I highest taxed province, and with all the duties move, seconded by the Member fo r Lakeside and the service charges. Business is still leaving. (Mr. Enns), that debate be adjourned. We still have out-migration, and we still have mosquitoes. Mo tion agreed to. So, having said that, I would like to see this * * * bill passed.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to Leader): Would you please call Bill 18, Mr. adopt the motion? [A greed} Speaker. House Business DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS (Continued) Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I would like to announce Bi11 18-The Special Survey Amendment Act that the Standing Committee on Law Amend­ ments will meet on Wednesday, July 17, at 6:30 Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on second read­ p.m., to deal with the fo llowing bills: Bill 13, ing, Bill 18, The Special Survey Amendment The Medical Laboratory Technologists Act; Bill Act, standing in the name of the honourable 15, The Fatal Accidents Amendment Act; Bill Member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck), oh, the 16, The Class Proceedings Act; Bill 18, the act Member for Steinbach (Mr. Penner). just dealt with by the House; Bill 25, The Hearing Aid Amendment Act; Bill 26, The Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, the Occupational Therapists Act; and Bill 28, The Member for Pembina and I are both quite large, Registered Dietitians Act. so we are easily mistaken. Mr. Speaker: It has been announced that the This Bill 18, The Special Survey Amend­ Standing Committee on Law Amendments will ment Act, is, probably, a friendly act to stream­ meet on Wednesday, July 17, at 6:30 p.m., to line and to speed up the process of how deal with the fo llowing bills: Bill 13, The construction projects and special surveys are Medical Laboratory Technologists Act; Bill 15, handled. I have done a fair bit of construction The Fatal Accidents Amendment Act; Bill 16, work in my life, building shopping centres and The Class Proceedings Act; Bill 18, The Special businesses. When it comes down to surveys, it Survey Amendment Act; Bill 25, The Hearing sometimes is very, very complicated. I under­ Aid Amendment Act; Bill 26, The Occupational stand that the survey process here will be taken Therapists Act; and Bill 28, The Registered care of in a better fashion because, no longer Dietitians Act. will the special survey be charged to the owner of the land, which was the subject of a special * * * survey. Secondly, the bill also provides that it will be approved by the Registrar General Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, is it the will of instead of the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council. the House to call it six o'clock? So the special surveys will probably be a little bit easier and more palatable. Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to call it I applaud any effort to streamline our six o'clock? {A greed] method of handling business in the province. But these are such baby steps, Mr. Speaker. When it The hour being 6 p.m., this House is comes down to the really big issues, we still adjourned and stands adjourned until 1 :30 p.m. have not dealt with the fact that we are the tomorrow (Tuesday). LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, July 15, 2002

CONTENTS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Medical Specialists Driedger; Chomiak 3333 Presenting Petitions Internet Crime Transcona-SpringfieldSchool Division J. Smith; Mackintosh 3334 Schuler 3325 Members' Statements Reading and Receiving Petitions Freedom Walk 2000 Transcona-Springfield School Division Nevakshonoff 3335 Schuler 3325 Sterling Lyon J. Smith 3336 Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees High School Convocations Asper 3336 Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections Third Report Dakota Tipi First Nation Santos 3325 Faurschou 3336

Tabling of Reports Sturgeon Creek Graduation Korzeniowski 3337 Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation, Quarterly Report, Three Months, March 1, ORDERS OF THE DAY 2002 to May 31, 2002 Mackintosh 3326 GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Oral Questions Report Stage

Dakota Tipi First Nation Bill 14-The Public Schools ModernizationAct Mitchelson; McGifford 3326 (Public Schools Act Amended) Hawranik; Robinson 3327 Gilleshammer 3338, 3341 Reimer; McGiffo rd 3327 Schuler 3339, 3342 Reimer; Robinson 3328 Enos 3344 Faurschou; Robinson 3328, 3329 Gerrard 3345 Faurschou; McGifford 3329 Mitchelson; Robinson 3330 Debate on Second Readings Mitchelson; Doer 3330 Bill 13-The Medical Laboratory Technologists Cardiac Surgery Act Gerrard; Chomiak 3331 Driedger 3346

School Divisions Bill 26-The Occupational Therapists Act Allan; Caldwell 3332 Driedger 3347

Labour Relations Legislation Bill 28-The Registered Dietitians Act Helwer; Mihychuk 3332 Driedger 3348 Bill 18-The Special Survey Amendment Bill 45-The Budget Implementation and Tax Act Statutes Amendment Act, 2002 Jim Penner 3362 Selinger 3352

Bill 49-The Purchase of Winnipeg Hydro Second Readings Act Selinger 3353 Bill 32-The Fatality Inquiries Amendment Act Bill 36-The Drinking Water Safety Act Mackintosh 3349 Chomiak 3354 Faurschou 3356 Bill 48-The Legal Profession Act Bill 43-The Polar Bear Protection Act Mackintosh 3351 Lathlin 3357 Jim Penner 3359 Bill 41-The Manitoba Hydro Amendment Act Bill 50-The Resource Tourism Operators Act Selinger 3352 Lathlin 3360