Tuesday Volume 527 10 May 2011 No. 154

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 10 May 2011

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lower for longer while remaining consistent with the House of Commons inflation target. It is now widely accepted that this framework is far more effective than the one that went Tuesday 10 May 2011 before it.

Helen Goodman: May I associate myself with your The House met at half-past Two o’clock tribute, Mr Speaker? David Cairns was a highly valued colleague, and I am sure that all our thoughts and PRAYERS prayers are with his partner Dermot and his family. I am grateful to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] his answer, and I was wondering whether, in his more reflective moments, he would agree that Portugal, Greece and Ireland face a major problem, in that they cannot BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS run an independent monetary policy attuned to their particular needs. That being the case, will he stop making DEATH OF A MEMBER rather childish comparisons between the UK and the eurozone countries? Mr Speaker: I regret to have to report to the House the death of David Cairns, the Member for Inverclyde. Mr Osborne: The hon. Lady is right that those countries David was a most assiduous Member serving as do not have a flexible exchange rate. That is because Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State and Minister they are in the euro, which I campaigned to keep Britain of State in the last Parliament, and was much respected out of. I do not know how she has campaigned in recent by the House. David trained and served as a priest years, but the last time I checked I think it was still before beginning his political career. I am sure that official Labour party policy to join the euro in principle. Members in all parts of the House will join me in Perhaps the shadow Chancellor will clear that up when mourning the loss of a colleague, and extending our he gets to his feet. The comparison I make is a good sympathy to the hon. Member’s partner Dermot, his one: a year ago almost to the day, people were looking father John, his brother Billy and his many friends and at the British budget deficit, which was larger than family. those of Portugal and Ireland, and asking whether Britain could pay its way in the world. Our credit rating had been put on negative watch. Now, however, thanks Oral Answers to Questions to the policies of this coalition Government, Britain has economic stability again.

Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): I TREASURY also wish to pay tribute to the memory of David Cairns. May I ask the Chancellor how the co-ordination is The Chancellor of the Exchequer was asked— organised to achieve a synthesis between our tight fiscal policy and our lax monetary policy? Monetary Policy Framework Mr Osborne: Obviously, monetary policy is 1. Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): What independent—the MPC sets it in the way we all know—so recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of there is no co-ordination in that sense. I do not have a the monetary policy framework. [54721] direct influence on monetary policy, but it is clear that by setting a credible fiscal policy, we give the MPC The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): maximum room for manoeuvre and the freedom to I begin by expressing my own personal sadness and keep interest rates lower for longer. The Governor of shock at the death of David Cairns, whom I knew the Bank of England made that clear when he gave his pretty well. I went with him on a trip to the United Mansion House speech last year, and it is an observation States some years ago and spent some time with him, also made by many independent observers of the British and I know that he was principled, gentle—in the best economy. Interest rates would be higher if we had a less sense of the word—and genuinely liked and respected credible fiscal policy. in all parts of the House. His sudden and premature death is a tragedy, and my sympathies—and, I suspect, Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): I would like to those of everyone here—go to his partner Dermot and thank you, Mr Speaker, and the Chancellor for your his family. tributes to David Cairns, our colleague, and to add our The Government have set up a new macro-economic tributes from the Opposition side of the House. David framework to restore economic stability. The building was one of those very rare people who caused a change blocks of that framework are an independent Monetary in the law in order for him to be able to take his seat in Policy Committee that will continue to target inflation, this place, and when he arrived his presence was not a a new Financial Policy Committee to operate macro- disappointment to anyone. He was a great colleague prudential tools, so that we can assess overall levels of and friend, and our hearts go out to his family and debt in the economy—something not done in recent friends. We would like to add our deepest condolences years—and, crucially, a credible, coherent and independently at the shocking news of his untimely and very early monitored fiscal policy that allows interest rates to stay death today. 1011 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1012

Before the last election, both parties now in government Tessa Munt: I would like to draw attention to the pledged no rise in VAT, but with inflation running at situation affecting my constituent George Archer, a double the Bank of England target, people are facing business man who has had a £5,000 overdraft that was the biggest and longest squeeze in their living standards unused for three years, with the exception of four days for 80 years. How does the Chancellor think that increasing when he requested a £20,000 extension. The bank—which VAT by 2.5% has helped them to cope with this issue? is one of the big four—offered him £25,000 on rates that he initially refused, before beating it down to Mr Speaker: Order. Whatever may be said about the acceptable rates. On paper, that bank has increased its question, I am sure that the Chancellor will focus on the lending to a small or medium-sized business by £20,000, monetary policy framework. That is what he can be but I wonder what the Minister can do to halt this relied upon to do. duplicity and ensure that loans are real, active, needed and utilised. Mr Osborne: Actually, monetary policy is the thing that I am not directly in charge of, but the point I would Mr Hoban: I cannot comment on the particular make is that the VAT rise is part of a credible fiscal circumstances that my hon. Friend has raised, although policy. The person who was Chancellor of the Exchequer I am happy to look at them more carefully. I am sure before me has made it pretty clear in interviews since that she would welcome, as does the whole House, the the election that he, too, was considering a VAT rise, commitment of banks to increase their capacity to lend and he would probably have gone ahead with one if to businesses of all sizes. Labour had been re-elected. Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): I wonder Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op) indicated whether the Minister still thinks that Project Merlin was dissent. such a great deal with the big banks. Lending to small businesses continues to fall, while the charges for those Mr Osborne: The shadow Chancellor shakes his head. loans are rising. The banks’ promise to support the big I know that in government he tried to do everything to society bank looks less generous, as we learn that money stop a credible fiscal policy being developed, and he is will be lent only on commercial terms, and now we hear now doing everything in opposition to stop Labour that Santander is pulling out of the business growth developing a credible economic policy. Long may he fund, which was a key plank of the deal. Is this a failure continue to do so. of Project Merlin or a failure of the Government?

Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): The Chancellor Mr Hoban: It is rather churlish of the hon. Gentleman will shortly publish draft legislation on financial regulation to be critical of Project Merlin. When his party was in making the Bank of England the most powerful central office it was able to secure lending commitments from bank of its type in the world. The word “Governor” only two banks. We have achieved a comprehensive simply does not do justice to the empire over which package with all banks, including Santander, to increase Mervyn King will shortly preside. What specific proposals the amount of money that they will lend to businesses, does the Chancellor have to ensure full democratic including small businesses. The business growth fund, accountability of the reformed Bank to both Parliament which he also raised, is an opportunity for businesses to and the country? seek equity finance in a way that is currently not available and that meets the equity gap, which the previous Mr Osborne: I thank my hon. Friend for advance Government did little to resolve. notice of his important question. Both the Governor of the Bank of England and the Government take the Business Costs accountability of the Bank very seriously. Clearly the Bank will receive considerable new powers for its prudential 3. Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): What fiscal regulation of our financial system and in its macro- measures he is taking to reduce the costs faced by prudential tools. We are looking at specific ideas for businesses. [54723] enhancing the Bank’s accountability, including to this House, but it would be appropriate first for me to The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): appear before my hon. Friend’s Committee—I know As well as dealing with the deficit, this Government are that he has contacted my office seeking a date—and to helping business. To support a private sector recovery, await the Treasury Committee’s findings, so that we can we have cut corporation tax by 2% this year, with 3% to listen to what it has to say before coming up with our come. We have cut small companies’ tax and extended confirmed proposals. the small business rate holiday for another year. We have stopped Labour’s jobs tax, expanded enterprise and Bank Lending (Small Businesses) research tax breaks, announced new enterprise zones and, crucially for millions of businesses and families, we 2. Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): What recent assessment have abolished the fuel duty escalator and cut the duty. he has made of trends in levels of bank lending to small businesses. [54722] Esther McVey: As Merseyside seeks to expand its private sector, it is looking towards its knowledge economy The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark so that it can build on its substantial science base. Hoban): Repayment of debt by small businesses is running Predictions show that, by 2022, it could have growth of ahead of lending to the same sector. As a consequence, 15%, which would mean 58,000 jobs. What are the net lending fell in the first quarter of this year. However, Government doing to incentivise such growth to ensure the availability of credit to business in the same period that those predictions for Wirral and Merseyside become increased. a reality? 1013 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1014

Mr Osborne: First, we have increased science funding Mr Osborne: The shadow Chancellor is not just out in the north-west. Although it is not in my hon. Friend’s of his depth; he is drowning. The truth is that he has constituency, there has been additional money for had absolutely no impact in the several months that he Daresbury, which was announced in the Budget. Also, has been doing the job. He had one policy, a VAT cut on Mersey Waters in her constituency is going to be an fuel that the European Union ruled illegal. He had one enterprise zone. We have also announced the redevelopment idea, which was to follow America, but now the Obama of the Royal Liverpool hospital at a cost of £450 million. Administration have announced a deficit reduction plan So, whether it is medical research, science at Daresbury, as fast and as deep as the UK’s. He had one prediction, the Atlantic Gateway project or the enterprise zones, we which was that there would be a double-dip recession, are doing all sorts of things to help the Mersey region. and that has not happened. We know that he is a man with a past, but we are beginning to discover that he has absolutely no ideas for the future. If we want any proof Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): I endorse of that, this is what the CBI said this week when asked the sentiments expressed by my hon. Friend the Member what the outcome would be if Britain followed Labour for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) and others about the tragic plans: death of our colleague and friend, David Cairns. “The economy would be weaker because of the impact of a I also congratulate the Chancellor on his successful loss of confidence”. masterminding of the “No to AV” campaign. We all saw how much he enjoyed it over the past week or so, Economic Growth (VAT) but now that that political campaign is out of the way, perhaps he could drag himself back to his day job for a 4. Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): moment. The flagship measure of his strategy for growth What assessment he has made of the effects of the in last year’s Budget was a £1 billion national insurance increase in the standard rate of VAT on levels of economic holiday for new businesses outside London and the growth in the first quarter of 2011. [54724] south-east. He said that that would benefit 400,000 The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David companies and create 800,000 jobs. Let me ask him a Gauke): At this stage, it is not possible to make a full very specific question. Will the Chancellor tell the House assessment of the effect of the increase in the standard how many companies have so far benefited from that rate of VAT on levels of economic growth in the first scheme, and how many jobs have been created? quarter of 2011. The Office for Budget Responsibility forecast released on 23 March projected growth of 1.7% Mr Osborne: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for over the course of 2011. That forecast takes full account congratulating the “No to AV” campaign, which many of the Government’s fiscal policy measures. of his colleagues supported, even if he did not. I cannot help but notice that he had a big role to play in Labour’s Ms Stuart: The Bank of England expects inflation election campaign, during which he said that rates to accelerate over the next few months. The markets, however, seem to have taken the view that interest rates “the Scottish elections are a big test” will not increase as speedily as was anticipated just a for Labour. Well, he was certainly right about that. few weeks ago. How does the Exchequer Secretary reconcile the Chancellor’s notion that the economy has Let me say something about that national insurance grown with the judgment of the markets? tax break that was announced in the previous Budget. The take-up has been in the low thousands, and that is Mr Gauke: The economy is growing: that is clear something that I acknowledged to the Treasury Select from the Office for National Statistics numbers and Committee. We are seeking to improve the design of the from the projections of every respected economic forecaster. scheme, to ensure that new businesses are more aware of Despite the predictions coming from the Opposition its benefits. As a result of work being done by Her last year, there has been no double dip. Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, we expect take-up to increase. Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): May I return to the topic of VAT on fuel? I have just come from a business session in my constituency of Devizes, where I know Ed Balls: Despite all the bluster, there was not a that despite the decrease, high fuel prices continue to be specific answer to the question in there. We were told by a real drag on growth for small businesses across the the Business Secretary in February that the Chancellor economy. I have a letter from the EU commissioner would announce the details of how he would develop saying that the recent motion we debated—that a derogation the scheme in the Budget, yet those details still have not should be made specifically for motoring fuel—is almost arrived. Actually, I have the figures from the Chancellor’s certainly illegal and definitely unworkable under EU own Department. How many companies have benefited legislation. May I ask Ministers what proposals we can from the scheme? Not 400,000 but just 3,000. How suggest to help motorists in the real world now that the many jobs have been created? Not 800,000 but just Labour party’s suggestion has been revealed as yet 6,000. If that is the flagship measure of his growth another— strategy, it is no wonder that the economy is flat-lining, that consumer confidence is down and that unemployment Mr Speaker: We are grateful to the hon. Lady. is forecast to rise—[Interruption.] Well, if that is not the reason, perhaps the Chancellor will tell us why the Mr Gauke: It is striking that the first line of Labour’s economy has been flat-lining in the past six months. Is blank sheet of paper on the economy is a proposal that not the reality that the country is discovering what the we now know does not work, is illegal, would not help Liberal Democrats discovered on Thursday of last week: and would leave tax on fuel just as high as it was—whereas that this coalition is hurting, but it is not working? we are cutting fuel duty. 1015 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1016

Charitable Giving Tax and Benefit Changes

5. Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): What fiscal 6. Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): What measures he is taking to encourage charitable giving. assessment he has made of the effects on families and [54725] children of the tax and benefit changes introduced in The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): April 2011. [54726] The Government think that charitable giving needs a great deal more support than it has been getting, so we The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): announced a major package of new tax breaks in the I echo your tribute to David Cairns, Mr Speaker. I knew Budget, ranging from the biggest to the smallest donations. him as a very effective Scotland Office Minister, and as This includes the commitment that anyone giving more a champion of Scottish broadcasting. It is a tragic loss, than 10% of their estate to charity will have their and he will be very sorely missed by Members in all inheritance tax bill cut by 10%. For the first time ever, parts of the House. the first £5,000 of a donation or donations to a charity Direct tax and benefit changes introduced in April will automatically attract gift aid. That is automatic tax are progressive. On average, households in the bottom relief on the collection plate and the collecting tin on 80% of income distribution gain. As a result of the the high street. Overall, 100,000 charities could benefit direct tax changes introduced in April, 21 million individuals to the tune of £600 million a year. These are the most earning up to about £35,000 per annum will benefit in generous tax changes for a generation. real terms this year. Tony Baldry: Over the year, some £58 million in loose change is put in collection plates from just Church of Pamela Nash: Let me take a moment to associate England collections, so the small donation gift aid myself with the Chief Secretary’s comments on the sad scheme will be very welcome, as it will enable tax to be death of David Cairns. David provided me with a lot of recovered on that amount. Welcome, too, will be the support and a lot of laughter during my time here as a reduction in inheritance tax for those who give more parliamentary researcher and, over the last year, as a than 10% of their estate to charity. After all, we can Member of Parliament. take nothing with us, and it is probably better to leave as Families with two or more children will lose up to much as possible to charity when we go. £1,560 per year as a result of the cuts in the child care element of working tax credit. Does the Chief Secretary Mr Osborne: I thank my hon. Friend for his support. accept that that will deter many parents who would One challenge is to make sure that everyone hears about otherwise have returned to work from doing so? these schemes over the next couple of years. Because the Budget focused on big issues like fuel duty and the Danny Alexander: The vast majority of people on low corporation tax cut, the same amount of attention was and middle incomes will benefit from the income tax not given on Budget day to the charitable giving measures. cuts that will result from the raising of the income tax Over the period before they come into effect, I want to threshold by £1,000. For families with children, we have make sure that all the charities are aware of the benefits. increased the child element of child tax credit by £180 above Every charity will be able to benefit, but small charities indexation. I agree with the shadow Chancellor, who will be disproportionately better off. admitted on the BBC shortly after the Budget that Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): Many local “only the majority of families” charities would disagree with the Chancellor’s statement. would benefit from those moves. Will he explain why he chose in the Budget to focus on tax breaks for the wealthiest owners when many small local charities who will not benefit from such donations Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): Does the Chief are being hit by the triple whammy of a rise in VAT, the Secretary share my desire to see a welfare system in end to the gift aid transitional rate and cuts to local which hard-working families are better off than those government grant funding? What help is he giving to who choose not to work? Does he agree that, as soon as those charities that he expects to form the backbone of we can afford it, we should enable as many as possible his big society? of those hard-working families to benefit from the lifting of the tax threshold? Mr Osborne: I am not sure who the hon. Lady has been listening to, but this is what the British Red Cross Danny Alexander: I agree wholeheartedly. That is why said: “Allowing charities to—”[Interruption.] Iamsorry; we have set ourselves the agenda of both reforming the it seems that we should disregard the views of the welfare system and lifting the income tax threshold to British Red Cross. Let me, however, repeat what it said £10,000, which will significantly benefit millions of for the benefit of my right hon. and hon. Friends. people on low and middle incomes. “Allowing charities to claim back on up to £5,000 of small donations per year will have a big impact for small charities”. Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Value added tax up, The Charities Aid Foundation said: losses of about £1,500 for middle-income families, child “The Chancellor has today delivered for charities and those benefit frozen, child tax credit cut, working families tax who want to support them.” credit frozen: can the Chief Secretary tell me why, when Instead of carping from the sidelines, why does the hon. such decisions are made, it remains the Government’s Lady not get behind this good scheme and ensure that priority to cut the 50p tax rate for the highest earners in all charities in all our constituencies make use of it? the community? 1017 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1018

Danny Alexander: I am not sure that the right hon. Public Sector Borrowing Requirement Gentleman opposed any of the items on that list in votes in the House. 8. John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): What recent As I said earlier, we have cut income tax by increasing estimate he has made of the size of the public sector the income tax threshold. We have also introduced a borrowing requirement. [54728] triple lock on pensions, increased cold weather payments, and increased the child element of child tax credit. Of The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine course we must look at the way in which the income tax Greening): The public sector finances first release published system works, but our priority has been to cut income by the Office for National Statistics estimates that the tax for people on low and middle incomes by increasing first provisional out-turn for public sector net borrowing the tax threshold. That is the tax priority of this in 2010-11 is £141.1 billion, or 9.6% of GDP. That is Government. £15 billion lower than in 2009-10. John Stevenson: Manufacturing has been undergoing Business Regulation a renaissance under this Government, and clearly has a role to play in helping the economy grow and in reducing 7. Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): What the deficit. Does the Minister agree that manufacturing steps he is taking to ensure that the Financial Services also has a significant role to play in helping to reduce Authority exempts from new domestic regulation businesses the other deficit: the balance of payments deficit? employing fewer than 10 people and new businesses for the next three years. [54727] Justine Greening: I completely agree with my hon. Friend; he is absolutely right that manufacturing has a The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark vital role to play. In fact, the total trade deficits narrowed Hoban): Where the Government are granting new powers in each of the past three months, and that recovery in to the Financial Services Authority through primary exports has been driven largely by strong growth in the and secondary legislation, we will seek to apply the export of manufactured goods, which accounted for moratorium. The FSA is, however, an independent regulator almost 50% of the UK’s total exports. That is not just with powers to make rules under the Financial Services good news for those businesses; it is good news for jobs, and Markets Act 2000. The Government’s policy on too. It shows that under this Government Britain is not exempting micro-businesses and start-ups from new just open for business in the UK; it is open for business regulation will therefore not apply automatically to abroad, too. rules made by the FSA. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): When the Harriett Baldwin: In his testimony to the Treasury Government’s cuts really start to kick-in, unemployment Committee, the chief executive of the FSA said that up will rise by hundreds of thousands, if not up to 1 to 10,000 jobs—in many cases, those of small independent million. That will result in lower tax revenues and financial advisers—could be lost as a result of the retail higher benefit payments, and the deficit will get worse distribution review. Will the Financial Secretary meet and public borrowing will increase. Is not the Government’s the chief executive of the FSA as a matter of urgency to policy nonsense? discuss ways in which the impact could be mitigated? Justine Greening: The hon. Gentleman is giving a critique of his own party’s policy in many respects, Mr Hoban: I know that my hon. Friend has campaigned because its proposed cuts are nearly as large as ours this tenaciously for IFAs. I remind her that although the year. The difference is that we have set up the Office for FSA is an independent regulator—this addresses her Budget Responsibility, and there is clear evidence that question directly—it has an obligation to assess the we will start to see employment growing year on year impact of its rules on businesses, including small businesses, and unemployment falling year on year, so by the end of and to make its rules proportionate. I should add that it this Parliament we should see a net creation of almost 1 is not planning any initiatives by means of its powers million jobs. Surely, the hon. Gentleman must welcome under the Financial Services and Markets Act apart that? His party leaves unemployment higher when it from those that are already under way. leaves office. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Minister First-time Buyers for his response. Clearly, if the economy is to be regenerated and rebuilt, it will be small and medium-sized businesses 9. Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): What fiscal that will achieve that, and one of the things they tell me measures he is taking to support first-time home as their elected representative is that they need rates buyers. [54729] relief and assistance. What assistance is the Minister considering giving to such businesses? The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Hoban): Until and including 24 March 2012, first-time Mr Hoban: As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, this buyers can apply for relief from stamp duty land tax on Government have taken many actions to provide support properties of up to £250,000. The Government are to small companies. For example, we have cut the small currently reviewing this relief, and will announce the profits rate of corporation tax—which the previous outcome of the review in the autumn. The Government Government sought to increase. We have done a lot to are also investing £250 million in 2011 to assist more encourage the growth of small businesses, and we will than 10,000 first-time buyers to purchase a new-build continue to look at what further measures we might home of their own through the FirstBuy Direct scheme. take to encourage their future prosperity. That scheme is being co-funded by developers. 1019 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1020

Mr Jones: I thank the Minister for his response. support private sector-led bids that create growth and First-time buyers are the lifeblood of the residential jobs and that support economic development across property market, and while I congratulate the Chancellor England, and I would urge her to work with chambers and his team on the deposit scheme announced in the of commerce and local enterprise partnerships. Budget to assist first-time buyers to purchase new-build property, will the Treasury team consider apportioning Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): In view of the part of that funding to assist first-time buyers who want indifferent growth in the regions, does the Minister to purchase second-hand property, in order to give the regret the Government’s decision to abolish regional property market the vital shot in the arm that it needs? development agencies and to give to their authorities no money, no staff and no authority? Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend makes an important point, but it is crucial that we target help where it will Danny Alexander: No, I do not; I think that that was deliver the greatest economic benefit. By targeting assistance the right decision. The balance of policies that we are on first-time buyers purchasing new-build property, the putting forward—on enterprise zones, local enterprise FirstBuy scheme helps to unlock stalled developments partnerships and the regional growth fund—is designed and stimulate additional house building, with a further to ensure that ideas that come from the regions have a 10,000 homes being built for open market sale, supporting much greater chance of success. Our decision was the 42,000 jobs directly and a further 24,000 jobs indirectly right one, and the hon. Gentleman will have noted that for a year. If we were to pursue the route my hon. inequality among the regions actually grew during Labour’s Friend suggests, we would potentially lose the benefit of 13 years in office. the financing that comes from home builders. Economic Growth Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Is the Minister concerned that the proposed savings cap in the universal credit will make it more difficult for first-time 11. Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): What steps buyers to save for the much higher levels of deposit that his Department is taking to promote economic growth. lenders increasingly require? [54732]

Mr Hoban: Everyone in the House will understand The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): the challenges that face many first-time buyers in trying As my hon. Friend knows, we inherited an economic to save up for a deposit. That is why we announced this mess, we have restored economic stability and we are scheme at the time of the Budget, which has been promoting economic growth by cutting business taxes, widely welcomed. We should also recognise that a number encouraging investment, expanding exports, improving of lenders are now reducing the loan-to-value ratio, to and investing in skills, and creating jobs. The whole enable more first-time buyers to get on to the housing House will be pleased to know that 400,000 private ladder with a smaller deposit. sector jobs have been created since the Government came into office. Regional Investment Nicholas Soames: I warmly welcome the excellent 10. Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con): record of this Government, led by my right hon. Friend What steps he is taking to support investment in the the Prime Minister, and the admirable work done by the regions. [54730] Chancellor. Does he agree that, in addition to all this work to encourage growth, the deregulation of the The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): economy continues to be extremely important and that Returning the UK economy to sustainable economic it is not proceeding at as fast a pace as it should? Will he growth that is more balanced across the regions of this do everything he can to encourage his colleagues in the country and across sectors is a key priority. In the recent Government to get on with the deregulatory programme? Budget, this Government took steps to encourage investment and exports as a route to a more balanced Mr Osborne: I certainly am doing that. We announced economy.In addition, we have introduced 21 new enterprise in the Budget the deregulation of £350 million-worth of zones in England and we have allocated £450 million of business regulation, and we also imposed a moratorium investment in the first round of the regional growth for the coming years on regulation on small businesses. fund, including to an excellent proposal from the Western On the first anniversary of this Government, it is worth Daily Press and the university of Plymouth to support reflecting that 400,000 extra jobs have been created in small firms across the south-west. the private sector, 89,000 fewer people are on the unemployment count, manufacturing output is up by Sheryll Murray: I thank my right hon. Friend for that 5%, businesses investment is up by 11%, exports are up reply. Private sector growth is really important in my by 12%, our credit rating has come off negative watch, constituency, but only six of 464 bids to the regional our market interest rates are down and, as I say, economy growth fund were from Cornwall. What can the stability has been restored. Government do to encourage more bids from Cornwall in the second round? Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): Would the Chancellor like to associate himself with the views Danny Alexander: I would urge my hon. Friend and of the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and other colleagues from Cornwall to encourage businesses Skills on the cumulative effect of carbon reduction and the local authorities to support bids from private measures on the competitiveness of energy-intensive sector businesses. The regional growth fund is there to industries? There is real concern in the ceramics sector 1021 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1022 in my constituency that the Government are in danger Alcohol Duty of exporting jobs and importing carbon, which is in nobody’s interest? 13. Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con): What recent representations he has received from the Mr Osborne: The hon. Gentleman raises a very specific licensed trade on alcohol duty. [54734] issue—the cumulative impact of the environmental policies of both the previous Government and this one on some The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine very energy-intensive industries such as the one that he Greening): I met a number of stakeholders ahead of this represents in Stoke—which is worth consideration. We year’s Budget, including the all-party group on beer and are examining it, and it is a challenge for the whole the British Beer and Pub Association. We carried out a House to ensure that we get the right balance between review of alcohol taxation last summer and members of absolutely meeting our carbon reduction requirements, the licensed trade contributed heavily to that. to which we have all signed up as Members of this Parliament, and ensuring that we can do so in a way Mr Streeter: I thank the Minister for her answer. that enables Britain to continue to have a competitive Given the importance of the licensed trade to the economy energy-intensive industry. and our culture, particularly in regions such as the west Barnett Formula country, where tourism is high, is it not now time to seek to reduce alcohol duty on served drinks and to 12. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): What increase it on cheap booze sold by supermarkets? his policy is on the operation of the Barnett formula in relation to relative need. [54733] Justine Greening: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise that issue. In fact, it is part of the rationale The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): behind tackling problem drinking. One way we have As the coalition programme for Government states, the sought to do that is by introducing the limits on the Government below-cost selling of alcohol in supermarkets. That will “recognise the concerns expressed…on the system of devolution be done by a formula of assessing duty plus VAT as the funding.” below-cost level. My hon. Friend is also right to point out that we need to do what we can to support pubs, The Government’s priority, however, must be to reduce which are the lifeblood of many local communities. the enormous budget deficit and therefore any change They will also benefit from the various packages of to the system of funding for the devolved Administrations measures we have brought forward to support small must await the stabilisation of the public finances. businesses, including reduced corporation tax, increased David Mowat: I thank the Chief Secretary for that national insurance thresholds and, of course, the plan reply. He will be aware, however, that the Holtham for growth. commission, the House of Lords Select Committee and the noble Lord Barnett are all of the view that the Budget Deficits Barnett formula is in need of urgent review and should be replaced by a mechanism based on need. I understand 14. Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): What recent that the priority must be to tackle the deficit, but can we discussions he has had with his international counterparts not at least start the process in the course of this on strategies to reduce budget deficits. [54735] Parliament of putting in place a fairer allocation mechanism based on need? The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke): At the G20 summit in Seoul in November, Danny Alexander: No, I am afraid I cannot make that advanced countries committed to formulate and implement commitment. As I said earlier, our priority is to reduce credible growth-friendly, medium-term fiscal consolidation the deficit. We have the Scotland Bill to take forward plans. The Chancellor has been involved in discussions here, and in relation to Wales we have a process that is with our international and European counterparts since following on from the referendum and we have the the Seoul summit, including in the International Monetary Holtham commission to look at specific issues. I think and Financial Committee and the International Monetary that is the right set of priorities for the moment. Fund spring meetings. As was the case with the previous Administration, it is not the Government’s practice to Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) provide details of all such discussions. (PC): As the Chief Secretary knows, his Government have announced a Calman-like process for Wales following Jeremy Lefroy: I thank the Minister for his reply. The the successful referendum in March for further powers. OECD’s recent report says that the UK is striking Will he confirm that reform of the Barnett formula will be a precondition of any wider financial reforms to the “the right balance between addressing fiscal sustainability…on way the Welsh Government are funded? the one hand, and preserving short-term growth on the other.” In his contact with international colleagues, has my Danny Alexander: I cannot confirm that, no. We have hon. Friend found other support for this view or, indeed, said that we will consider the issues to do with tax any support for the opposing view? powers raised in the second Holtham report as well as other issues that were brought forward at that stage. We Mr Gauke: It is quite striking that on one side of the made a commitment to the previous Welsh Assembly argument, saying that we must be serious about getting Government to engage in a conversation about those the deficit down, there is the OECD, the IMF, the things. If the new Welsh Assembly Government want to European Commission, the CBI, the Governor of the take that forward, we will be open to that, too. Bank of England and the US Government, whereas on 1023 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1024 the other side we have the Labour party. We do not find for hundreds of thousands of families and costing the the Labour party’s case terribly persuasive. On the taxpayer billions of pounds, but we are now sorting out evidence of last week, nor do the British people. this mess.

Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): Does not what T3. [54748] Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) happened in Greece show that measures that hamper (Lab): Has the Chancellor had an opportunity to note growth make tackling the deficit all the harder? Is that the findings of last week’s report from the National not why, six months after the geniuses opposite took Institute of Economic and Social Research, which stewardship of an economy that was beginning to recover show the contraction in public and private demand strongly, growth had ground to a halt? Is it now why, far since emerging from the recession to be higher in this from tackling the deficit, which is what all this is supposed country than in any comparable major economy? Does to be about, the small print of the Budget shows that that not show that the Government are cutting too far the Government will have to borrow £46 billion more? and too fast?

Mr Gauke: I know that the hon. Gentleman is close Mr Osborne: First, the report recommends higher to the former Prime Minister, but it really is disappointing taxes and higher interest rates—perhaps that has become that he is such a deficit denier. He even seems to suggest part of the Labour party’s official policy. I think it is that the Greeks should not be doing anything about their worth looking at what the CBI has said this week. I have deficit. If we do not have a credible plan, then the already quoted what it said when I was asked what the economy is at risk. We do have a credible plan. outcome would have been had Britain followed Labour’s plans—it said there would have been weaker economic Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): First, Mr Speaker, growth—but its director general has also said: may I associate myself and my Liberal Democrat colleagues “We are rock solid behind the chancellor’s plans to eliminate with your remarks about David Cairns at the start of the structural deficit within a parliament”, Question Time? which are an On the deficit, the Government’s plans will reduce “essential part of putting the economy back on a stable footing”. the fiscal deficit from last year’s figure of 9.6% to That is the voice of British business’s view of the deficit. 7.9% this year, but that will still be roughly double the [Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor says that is not eurozone average and higher than the figures for Germany, true. A couple of months ago he was quoting the CBI France, Italy and Spain. Does the Minister agree that if across the Despatch Box at me, but now that the CBI we did not take this action to reduce the deficit, it would says that Labour’s economic policies would lead to undermine international confidence in this country and weaker economic growth, he is in denial about that too. our ability to borrow the funds that we still need to fund our programmes? T2. [54747] JohnPugh(Southport)(LD):Whatfinancial stress test will the Treasury impose before allowing the Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Even Department of Health to authorise general practitioner now, our deficit is higher than Portugal’s and it is or clinical consortia? perfectly clear that we on the Government side are united and determined to bring that deficit down. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question, which Topical Questions raises a very important issue. It is a key part of the Treasury’s engagement with this to make sure that the process for authorising GP consortia ensures that those T1. [54746] Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con): If organisations are fully financially capable, as well as he will make a statement on his departmental clinically capable, of meeting their objectives before responsibilities. they are authorised on whatever timescale.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): T7. [54752] Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab): Does the The core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the Chancellor recall his statement to the House in stability of the economy, to promote growth and October, when he said: employment, to reform banking and to clear up the “I completely understand the public’s anger that the banks…should mess in the public finances that we inherited so that now be contemplating paying high bonuses”?—[Official Report, Britain starts to live within her means. 20 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 955.] It is all very well being angry about that, but why do the Chris Kelly: The Chancellor will know that fraud and banks continue to pay high bonuses to their high-ranking error have plagued the tax system since it was introduced. directors and why does he not do something about it? What measures is he taking to bear down on this and Why does he not repeat Labour’s bank bonus tax and what financial impacts does he expect those measures to reinvest the money in jobs, housing and many other have? things that the people of this country want?

Mr Osborne: I can today report to the House that in Mr Osborne: Bank bonuses were higher when the the past year Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has hon. Gentleman was a Minister. There is complete saved an additional £1 billion by tackling fraud and amnesia among the Opposition about their having presided error in the tax credit system. For many years, the flaws over the collapse of the British banking system and over in the shambolic administration of tax credits went bonuses that were billions of pounds higher in total completely ignored by the party opposite, causing misery than those being paid today, and they have no ideas 1025 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1026 about how to reform the banking system. The Chancellor Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): A year ago the who introduced the bank bonus tax to which the hon. Office for Budget Responsibility was projecting growth Gentleman refers said that it would not work again. We in the UK economy of 2.6% this year. Now the forecast have introduced a permanent bank levy which, I think, is down to 1.7%. What has gone wrong? the Labour party continues to oppose. Mr Osborne: As I am sure the right hon. Gentleman T4. [54749] Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): knows, there are very significant global headwinds of The economy of Hastings received a tremendous boost the high oil—[Interruption.] I know that Labour Members today when the Heritage Lottery Fund announced that live in a complete vacuum but, according to the most it would support our bid for £8.7 million for the pier recent growth figures for this first quarter, the British renewal but, sadly, seaside towns in general and we in economy posted a higher quarterly growth rate than the Hastings suffer from bad transport links, high public United States of America. Of course we have the high sector employment and low wages. Will the Chancellor oil price and the ongoing problem in the eurozone, but consider what can be done to support seaside towns what is required above all is a credible deficit reduction under this Government? plan that keeps Britain out of the financial danger zone.

T6. [54751] Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Mr Osborne: I join my hon. Friend in celebrating the Devonport) (Con): Given that Plymouth is a low-skills, good news about the successful bid for the renovation low- wage economy with 38% of the work force dependent of the pier. She is right to point out that there are on the public sector, can my right hon. Friend give me specific issues associated with seaside towns across the the timetable for the creation of enterprise zones? What country which are well known to the Members who role could green deal manufacturing play within that? represent them and well known also to the Government. We intend to come forward with proposals later this Mr Osborne: I know that my hon. Friend is a trenchant year to help those seaside towns. supporter of his constituency and a promoter of green industry there. He has raised the issue with me on a T8. [54753] Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): Household number of occasions. I know that Plymouth has put debt has been revised upwards by £300 billion, and my forward a bid for the second round of enterprise zones. constituency, Gateshead, has one of the highest rates of An announcement will be made later this summer, in personal insolvency in the country. What is the point of July, and I am afraid he will just have to wait until then, cutting the national debt, only to transfer the burden but as I say, he has certainly brought to my attention the on to the personal finances of ordinary families? It is potential for the green economy in the city that he blindingly obvious that we are not all in this represents. together—some of us are in this up to our necks. Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): May I offer my Mr Osborne: I am afraid the hon. Gentleman misses condolences to the friends, family and colleagues of two important facts. First, the most recent figures—within David Cairns? He was a man who always argued his the past week—for personal insolvencies showed a welcome corner with intelligence and humour, and carried the fall. Secondly, household debt reached a record level rare gift of being liked and respected across the Scottish under the previous Government. As I said in response political divide. We will all miss him. to the first question today, we are introducing a Financial I am sure the House is pleased that both Santander Policy Committee to assess overall levels of private and RBS have access to European Investment Bank debt, including business debt, in the economy so that we funds to issue discounted loans into the economy— do not allow dangerous unsustainable levels to grow. £150 million in the case of Santander, and a third That will now be a judgment for the Financial Policy tranche of £300 million in the case of RBS. Can the Committee and it will have the tools to do something Chancellor confirm that this is new, additional money, about it. or will it be rolled into the gross lending figures already agreed? T5. [54750] Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): Can my right hon. Friend update the House on what Mr Osborne: Let me write to the hon. Gentleman on discussions he has had about the likelihood of a further the specific issue of the Santander loan and the application bail-out of the Greek economy and whether he has to the European funds. I take this opportunity to made any assessment of the UK’s likely contribution? congratulate the Scottish National party on its victory in the Scottish parliamentary elections and say that we respect their outcome. As he knows, my right hon. Mr Osborne: The answer is that we have not had Friend the Prime Minister contacted the Scottish First discussions about a second Greek bail-out and we have Minister to congratulate him personally. I hope that we not been asked to make a contribution. The question can work together in the next few months and years to for Greece is whether it lives up to the commitments deliver what we both want to see, which is jobs and that it has entered into. There is currently an International prosperity in Scotland. Monetary Fund, European Commission and European Central Bank team in Athens assessing Greece’s progress T9. [54754] Joseph Johnson (Orpington) (Con): US against the plan that it committed to, and we should Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geithner, recently praised await the results of that assessment. the Government’s fiscal reduction plans, saying that the Chancellor had locked the coalition Government into a Mr Speaker: Jonathan Reynolds is not here, so I call set of reforms that were “very good”. What lessons has Stephen Timms. he drawn from this powerful endorsement? 1027 Oral Answers10 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 1028

Mr Osborne: Of course it is welcome to have the The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark support of the US Treasury Secretary. It is interesting Hoban): The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the that we have been urged for some months by Labour to mis-selling of PPI. This happened under the regulatory follow the US example. The Obama Administration, in regime that his colleagues set up when they were in the speech the President gave at George Washington government. One aspect of the reforms that we are university, set out a deficit reduction plan—it is not yet introducing by setting up the financial conduct authority legislated for in Congress—that goes faster and deeper is to give the regulator more powers to intervene earlier than the one we are promoting here in the UK. I suspect to prevent that sort of scandal happening again. that we will not now hear the argument that we have heard for the past few months from the Labour party. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Given the Chancellor’s concern for the use of taxpayers’ money, Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): May I associate will he really allow members of GP consortia boards to myself with the remarks about our much-missed colleague be paid as much as £30,000 a year for just one day’s David Cairns that you, Mr Speaker, and others have work a week? made? Recent commentators have suggested that it is possible Danny Alexander: As I said in response to my hon. that the Government will not meet their target to balance Friend the Member for Southport (John Pugh), one of the cyclically adjusted current budget by 2015-16, by the things we need to do as part of the listening exercise the end of this Parliament. If it becomes clear that Tory is hear the concerns about how consortia will work and cuts are not working to reduce the deficit, at what stage ensure that the financial regime that is in place is will the Chancellor change course? sustainable and puts the maximum amount of resource to the front line. Mr Osborne: I have just been told by my hon. Friend Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): The Chancellor the Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Greg Hands) did not answer the question from my hon. Friend the something about the hon. Lady that I did not know: she Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), so I would like is the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the previous to give the right hon. Gentleman another chance. Will leader of the Labour party. It is presumably not a job he repeat the bank bonus tax that was so successful last with onerous responsibilities, but it sounds as though he year and use that money to build the extra affordable may have written that question for her. The Office for homes, to rent and to buy, which are desperately needed Budget Responsibility is the independent body that by people in this country and by the construction assesses our ability to hit the fiscal mandate. The reason industry, and which would be good for the economy? we set it up was because under the stewardship of the person to whom she is PPS all credibility for Treasury Mr Osborne: As I was explaining to the hon. Member figures was lost. for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), the bank bonus tax was introduced by the previous Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con): and it was his judgment that it would not work for Only 14% of small businesses are owned by women. another year because the banks would find a way of What action will the Chancellor take to improve this avoiding it. That is why we introduced a permanent figure? bank levy not just for one year, but for each and every year. In any one year it raises more than the bank bonus Mr Osborne: It is incredibly important to try to tax net, so that is what we have done. It is pretty increase the number of women who set up their own striking: Labour Members had 13 years in government businesses. The Government have undertaken a number to introduce a permanent bank tax; they did not do so, of specific initiatives, driven from No. 10 Downing and they cannot carp from the sidelines now. street, and I will ensure that my hon. Friend is closely involved in them. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): If our gold had not been sold off some years ago, how much would it be Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): Yesterday, in worth today? a welcome move, the British banking industry abandoned its legal fight with the Financial Services Authority over Mr Osborne: The gold was sold, I think on the advice the mis-selling of payment protection insurance. Does of the current shadow Chancellor, at $3.5 billion—a the Chancellor agree that this scandal, as a result of princely sum, except that it would now be worth $19 billion. which millions of people in this country were fleeced by the banking sector on a large scale, was an absolute Several hon. Members rose— disgrace and that the banks involved should settle the claims that arise, immediately and without further delay? Mr Speaker: Order. We must move on. 1029 10 MAY 2011 Off-quota University Places 1030

Off-quota University Places Tory Government, access to wealth and privilege will always trump ability and ambition? Poor families have no chance of buying their way in, but is this not also a 3.30 pm cruel betrayal of middle England—those hard-working, Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab) (Urgent middle-class, middle-income families who want to do Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Business, the best for their children and face agonising pressure to Innovation and Skills if he will make a statement on the take on huge private debts to remortgage their homes to proposals for students to buy off-quota university places. make sure that their children get what the kids of the wealthy take as a right? The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David Does the Minister accept that although there is nothing Willetts): Fair access to university is crucial for achieving wrong with employers getting universities to provide equality of opportunity, and there is a clear issue of bespoke courses for their employees and nothing wrong principle here. Access to a university must be based on with employers paying fees once the university has ability to learn, not on ability to pay. There is absolutely decided whom to admit, his plans will corrupt university no question of wealthy students being able to buy their admissions with a two-tier system—one for the best way into university. qualified and another for those with access to fatter As the coalition prepares its White Paper on higher cheque books? And who will pay? The Minister’s response education, we are considering possible ways to allow was remarkable, because it is clear from his interviews universities to recruit extra students in addition to their today that he wants to allow wealthy families to buy student number allocation. Any such arrangement would places: he did not deny that in several interviews. Now have to comply with the principle that access to university incompetent Government Ministers are arguing about must be based on ability to learn, not on ability to pay. it in public. Where are these charities that want to pay That is why, in the Secretary of State’s speech to the £70,000 per student? Who are the employers who want Higher Education Funding Council on 6 April, he said: to pay for the second best, not the best? “Another measure for the longer term could be to remove I am glad that the Minister has been forced here student number controls which inhibit universities’ ability to today. We will study his plans to see whether he really recruit students who represent no burden to the public purse. For example, I don’t believe that universities should be prevented has climbed down, because if so, it is the most humiliating from expanding courses where employers cover students’ costs”. and fastest U-turn in the history of this discredited We are considering two options: first, making it Government. This House needs what we needed last easier for employers to sponsor students at university; December—a proper White Paper to tell us how this and secondly, making it easier for charities to sponsor whole mess is going to be sorted out. students at university. Any such scheme would need to comply with the following conditions: the principles of Mr Willetts: The shadow Secretary of State clearly fair access must apply; there would need to be genuine has not been listening to what I have been saying. He additional places; there would be no reduction in entrance has invented a policy and then denounced it. He has no standards; and, of course, rich individuals should not excuse for that, because in every public statement I have be able to buy their way into university. made, I have made it absolutely clear that we are looking at employers and charities. Those are the actual words Everything this coalition does is guided by our belief that I used in The Guardian this morning when I referred in the need to improve social mobility after it stagnated to the current rules which, for example, limit the ability under the Labour party. We will set out our proposals in of charities or social enterprises to sponsor students. the White Paper, which will be published shortly. Let me make the position clear regarding the two Mr Denham: In The Guardian and on the “Today” proposals that we are considering. First, Members in all programme, the Minister set out plans to allow students parts of the House have endlessly urged us to do more who have access to private funds to buy their way into to get employers involved in sponsoring students at universities that they cannot get into on merit. Why was university. Only 6,000 students out of well over 1 million the House not told of those plans when we voted on in total are currently sponsored by employers outside tuition fees? How many hon. Members would have quota controls. That is why, yes, we are looking at ways trebled fees if they had known that he planned to allow in which extra places outside quota controls can be students to buy entrance to selective universities? Or made available for students sponsored by companies, has the Minister just made up this plan? He has cut but they must meet the conditions that I clearly set out 20,000 student places, lost control of fees, £9,000 is the in my earlier response. norm not the exception and access agreements have no Secondly, we are pursuing another objective that I teeth. There is a black hole in his budget and threats to thought was shared by Members on both sides of the cut more student places or teaching budgets. House—encouraging greater endowments for our Given that mess, why is it that every time the right universities. Many people who are considering charitable hon. Gentleman puts a sticking-plaster on the wounds support for our universities like to know that real that he has caused he makes things worse? Yesterday he individuals will benefit. At the moment, if they identify launched the communications plan for the new fees and provide for any places for poor students, they come system. Can he not imagine the dismay that he has up against a universities quota limiting total numbers. caused for thousands of hard-working A-level students That deters charitable giving. So, again, we are investigating today? They now know that hard work, ability and whether charities and social enterprises can support ambition will not be enough. people at universities outside quota controls. Students from low-income homes want fairness, not Whatever we do will comply with the fundamental favours. Does the Minister not understand that a few principle that rich individuals should not be able to buy places will not soften the brutal message that, for this their way into university. Labour Members left the 1031 Off-quota University Places10 MAY 2011 Off-quota University Places 1032

[Mr Willetts] Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): I note my right hon. Friend’s comments on off-quota public finances in a mess. They left universities with a university places, and am reassured by his statement on £1 billion deficit and in a straitjacket, they restricted the issue of standards and entry. However, is it not the places, they fined institutions, and they blocked ambitions. case that across the HE sector, discussions about this We are determined to reform Labour’s broken system. topic are already taking place?

Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): Mr Willetts: It is the case. I have read with interest the Will the Minister again reassure the House that there reaction to the speculation today. I was struck by a will not be an uneven playing field for those from comment released today by the chief executive of GuildHE: lower-income families? Will he ensure that we have fair “Providing off-quota places can be socially progressive.” and equitable access to our universities while ensuring He went on to say: that Labour Members do not stand in the way of “This could give students of all backgrounds a wider set of employers and charities being able to make the maximum choices, including whether or not to take out a long term loan.” number of places available to everyone, regardless of That gentleman is, of course, the former special adviser background? to the shadow Secretary of State. Mr Willetts: I can absolutely give my hon. Friend the assurance that he seeks. The challenge to Labour Members Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Chaos on health is to join us in explaining to young people in schools policy; Ministers rowing in public about whether to and colleges across the country that none of them will abandon our carbon reductions; and now this, all in the have to pay up front to go to university. Under our space of 24 hours: is this not the most serially incompetent proposals, the threshold for repayment is increased Government in living memory? When will the Prime from the £15,000 we inherited from Labour to £21,000 Minister get a grip? now. Mr Willetts: I do not know what the right hon. Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): Gentleman is getting quite so aerated about. The Will the Minister tell the House what discussions he has Government are committed to improving social mobility had with the Office for Fair Access on this policy? and to easing the controls under which universities function. We will put forward proposals in the White Mr Willetts: Consultation on our proposals will take Paper to achieve precisely those objectives. place after we publish the White Paper. In a speech that I gave to Universities UK and in the speech that I Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): We welcome any measure quoted by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to aid social mobility and increase fair access. I welcome to HEFCE, we made it clear publicly that this is the my right hon. Friend’s ideas to increase the number of option we are looking at. places by getting charities and businesses to sponsor degrees. Will he confirm that rich students will never be Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): I have the able to buy their way into university under this Government? great privilege to represent three great universities: the university of Cambridge, Anglia Ruskin university and Mr Willetts: I am happy to give the hon. Lady the the Open university. Will the Minister assure me that assurance that she seeks. That is not the proposal that nothing he does in this or any other policy will force any we will put forward in the White Paper. of those universities to lower their standards for financial gain? Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Does the Secretary of State accept that it was he who started Mr Willetts: Yes. I have made it clear and am happy this hare running? The minds of those of us who want to confirm it again for the hon. Gentleman that there to be fair to him have not been put at rest by what the should be no reduction in entrance standards for our Minister has said today. We do not want a twin-track or universities. two-tier system. May I add that, as the Minister knows, many of the leading public schools in this country are Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): Was it wise of charities? the Minister to give the impression on Radio 4 and in The Guardian that our universities are like easyJet in Mr Willetts: The Secretary of State and I have publicly that people can buy their way to the front of the queue? referred to this idea. I referred to it in a public speech to He knows that our lecture halls, universities and university Universities UK and he referred to it in a speech to accommodation are only so big. Surely, if extra places HEFCE. We both said that we were looking at ideas for are put on, places will be denied to those who want off-quota places. We make no secret of the fact that we universal access. are investigating those ideas. I have also made it clear in every public remark that we are looking at employers Mr Willetts: We inherited from the previous Government, and charities as the people who would sponsor such of whom the right hon. Gentleman was the Minister for places. universities, a system of student number controls so tight that he was fining universities for taking on extra Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): May I welcome students. There were students who wanted to go to my right hon. Friend’s desire to create more university university and universities who wanted to educate them, places? More sponsorship of students by businesses but he fined the universities for wanting to recruit them. and charities would be very welcome to both students We are trying to break free from the constraints that he and universities, but does he agree that taking the placed on opportunity, while making it absolutely clear Government cap off student numbers is the only real that people cannot buy a place at university. way to create a fully functioning market? 1033 Off-quota University Places10 MAY 2011 Off-quota University Places 1034

Mr Willetts: I share my hon. Friend’s dislike of the to university, so it will not be directed at the poorest system that we have inherited. I deeply dislike a system people from our constituencies. It will be an opportunity in which universities are fined for taking on students for those who do not meet the criteria for entering who meet their entry requirements, but of course there university to get in by the back door because they have are public expenditure constraints, because each student access to private finance. comes with a cost. That is why I am being perfectly explicit about the fact that we are considering ways in Mr Willetts: I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is more which it would be possible for students to be accepted interested in fighting class war than in considering into university outside the quota, under the conditions practical proposals to improve access to university. Not that I have clearly set before the House this afternoon. I only are the particular conditions that I have set out to hope that moves us some way towards his admirable the House today intended to ensure that his concerns objective. do not come to pass, but in general, I believe that the expansion of higher education places is of itself a good Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): How will the thing for social mobility and opportunity in this country. Minister monitor the bona fides of charities that might be involved in these transactions? Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): Is it not the case that quotas and rationing have served low-income Mr Willetts: I agree that that is very important, and students very badly? In Britain, only 19% of low-income that the principles of fair access must apply. When we people go to university, which can be compared with produce our White Paper and our proposals are consulted more open systems such as those in Australia, which on, that question will of course need to be properly has 30%, and America, which has 50%. Does that not addressed. show the poor record of the previous Government? Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): Will the Minister confirm that the policy of off-quota places can Mr Willetts: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. expand the opportunities of some people from all sorts There is a problem. We are restricting access to university, of backgrounds to go to university, including those who and social mobility in our country is far too low. This would not normally have the opportunity to go, provided Government are looking at how we can tackle that that they have the support of a business or charity? problem, but all we get from the Labour party is completely wilful misrepresentation of what we are doing, and no Mr Willetts: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We practical proposals whatever. are trying to spread opportunity to go to university, even at a time when money is tight. That is what we are Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): As my hon. committed to achieving, and it is a great pity that the Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) Labour party has completely failed to suggest anything has pointed out, public schools are charities. Will the that would deliver on our belief in improving social Minister unambiguously rule out that his proposals mobility. would allow any public school to buy places at any university? Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ Co-op): Given his absence from the House today, can Mr Willetts: It is absolutely not our intention that the Minister assure the House that this policy has the such purchasing of places at university should happen. full support of his boss, the Secretary of State, and will That is why the criteria that I have set out are absolutely continue to have it in the future? clear on fair access. People should not be able to buy places at university. We are not proposing what the hon. Mr Willetts: I am setting out the approach of the Gentleman claims. coalition Government, and of course we will set out in the White Paper our proposals to deliver on the coalition’s Mr Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) (Con): Employers, commitment to improving social mobility. among others, benefit from well-educated students. Is it not right that if we can find a way for them to share in Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): Is the Minister that burden, we should use it, rather than jumping in aware of a scheme run by KPMG, which pays the fees and getting over-excited at the mere mention of them? for students who go on to work for it? Is he attracted to that model? Mr Willetts: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Mr Willetts: The KPMG scheme is an excellent example Indeed, the previous Government, towards the end of of exactly what we are trying to encourage. The trouble their time in office, produced a report, “Higher Ambitions”, is that at the moment, so far as such estimates can be which on page 47 specifically calls for employers to be made, we believe that only approximately 6,000 students more engaged. It says that out of well over 1 million are benefiting from extra “businesses have a crucial role in the funding and design of places sponsored by companies such as KPMG. That is programmes, in the sponsorship of students”. far too low, and we are considering ways in which we We are trying to ensure that more employers have the can encourage more such schemes, because we believe opportunity that was talked about by the previous they are a way to spread and improve opportunity in Government, but which, not for the first time, they this country. failed to deliver.

Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Affluence is influence, Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): The Minister and this is a triumph of affluence over ability. The has categorically refused not to rule out private schools Government have to recognise that it is social networking buying places for their students. Is this yet another idea that leads to people accessing this type of support to go dreamt up on the playing fields of Eton? 1035 Off-quota University Places10 MAY 2011 Off-quota University Places 1036

Mr Willetts: I have made it absolutely clear that I the Higher Education Funding Council. The policy will have ruled that out. also be set out in the White Paper, after which I look forward to debating it further in the House. Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): Access to Russell group universities from the lowest income Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): Given the groups has abysmally flatlined over the past 20 years. constraints on public spending, allowing businesses and Ideas such as allowing companies and charities to create charities to provide additional places at no cost to the social mobility and greater access should be debated. public purse is, in principle, a good idea, but can my They should not become the subject of scaremongering right hon. Friend tell the House exactly how the and misrepresentation. It is a shame that the Opposition Government will ensure that no university in this country have done that with a cynical letter to The Guardian in will have different entry criteria for quota and off-quota support of its scaremongering headline. places?

Mr Willetts: Not for the first time, my hon. Friend is Mr Willetts: My hon. Friend is right to raise that a voice of sanity in this debate, and I completely agree important principle. I hope that I made it clear earlier with his point. Government Members are engaged in that there should be no question of sacrificing university improving social mobility and people’s opportunities to entry standards. We are not considering that. go to university, while making absolutely clear the principle that nobody should be able to buy a place at Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): The Minister university using their personal wealth. That is the principle will want to confirm to the House that university education we are applying, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend in Scotland is fully devolved—thank goodness—but for his support. will he also confirm that should this extraordinary plan ever see the light of day, it will apply to English universities Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab): When I only, and that there will be no requirement to roll it out read this story in The Guardian, my first inclination was in Scotland? to check the date, but it clearly could not be 1 April, because we have had May’s elections, when Labour Mr Willetts: The hon. Gentleman says, “thank took Keele university from the Liberal Democrats because goodness”, but hon. Members on both sides of the of broken promises on tuition fees. I then thought that House are still looking forward to hearing the Scottish the story must be a clever wheeze by plotting Conservative National party’s long-term plans for the financing of Ministers, who are thinking, “What can we do to make universities in Scotland. We have set out our proposals Vince Cable, the Secretary of State, finally jump ship?” to ensure that universities in England are well financed and able to offer to our students a high-quality education. The Minister has clearly not told colleagues and the I hope that that opportunity is also available to students House in his responses how he would discriminate at Scottish universities. between different charities: which would qualify, and which would not? Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): If the Minister intends to allow charities to sponsor university places, Mr Willetts: I am afraid that I have made absolutely can he explain to the House what amendments he will clear the principles that will guide our policy. It is not introduce to change charity law so that public schools our intention that schools should be able to buy places are not counted as charities for that purpose? at university. Mr Willetts: After the White Paper, we will—with the Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): I congratulate consent of the House, I hope—introduce legislation my right hon. Friend the Minister on the help and that will provide the framework within which all the support that he has given to mature, part-time students— assurances I have given today can be met. students who did not do well at school first time around, but who in their 20s and 30s decide to be socially mobile Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): How can and to get qualifications and further education. it be socially progressive to devote time and energy to facilitating access for students from better-off backgrounds Mr Willetts: My hon. Friend is right. That is one at the same time as the Government have axed Aimhigher, reason why one proposal before the House is to extend which means that projects in my constituency to reach loans for fees for the first time to part-time students, out to poorer students will run out of funding by many of whom are mature students, which will enable October this year? them to take the opportunity of going to university. Our central objective is to give that opportunity to as Mr Willetts: It is socially progressive to consider how many people as possible who have the ability and to provide more opportunities for people to go to commitment to gain from it. That admirable objective is university and whether they can be sponsored by their what drives the coalition. employer or whether that can happen as part of a charity wishing to endow a university. That is socially Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Will the Minister progressive, which is why these proposals will help to assure the House that there is no truth in the rumour tackle one of the biggest challenges facing Britain today— that this policy was announced today to add the final our very low levels of social mobility. humiliation to the Lib Dems and precipitate a general election? Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab): Twenty-six per cent. of young people in Rochdale get the opportunity Mr Willetts: This policy has been referred to in to go to university, compared with the national average speeches by me and the Secretary of State. [HON.MEMBERS: of 31%. That gap narrowed under the previous “When?”] In speeches we gave to Universities UK and Government. Instead of coming up with fanciful policies 1037 Off-quota University Places10 MAY 2011 Off-quota University Places 1038 that will help his wealthy mates’ kids get into university, Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I listened carefully to will the Minister start helping youngsters in places such the Minister’s reassurances to the Chairman of the as Rochdale? Education Committee. I also listened to his accusations of class war against the Opposition, but I wonder Mr Willetts: It is important to help young people in whether there has been any cross-departmental places such as Rochdale through educational reform collaboration to ensure that social mobility will come and raising school standards. However, in the many about under his policy. Has he consulted the Secretary debates on higher education that I have attended in the of State for Education about his policy, which has seen House over the years, hon. Members on both sides have 500,000 youngsters receiving education maintenance called for greater employer involvement in course allowance at the higher level to get into further education sponsorship, and for greater endowments and charitable reduced to 12,000 receiving bursaries under the new giving to universities, yet as soon as we introduce practical scheme? ideas to achieve these objectives, Opposition Members suddenly no longer support principles that I thought Mr Willetts: The Secretary of State for Education, were widely endorsed on both sides of the House. just like me, is trying to deliver improved education Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): The key point is that opportunities after inheriting a total mess in the public people have to get into university first and then get the finances from Labour, so we have to take tough decisions. sponsorship from outside, otherwise the hon. Member We are trying to save money, but at the same time we are for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) will be right: this delivering reform of schools, improved access to universities, will be a charter for extending access to universities, a better way of funding them in future and the freedom because more thick rich people will be going to university. for them to escape from student number controls, albeit under carefully controlled conditions and with clear Mr Willetts: That is why we have made it clear that principles. That is the way to improve education standards there should be no reduction in entrance standards, and in our country, even when money is tight. that in no circumstances should rich individuals be able to buy their way into university. I have made that clear Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): Will to the House all afternoon, and it has been made clear the Minister tease out for us the conversations he has in every statement on this matter from me and the had with his adviser on fair access, the right hon. Secretary of State. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes)? Has not this whole problem arisen because of Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): I say, Mr Speaker, the ideological experiment that the Minister is conducting there might be many on the Tory Benches who think it with our universities? What is wrong with the state and an absolutely spiffing idea to allow mummy and daddy the private sector working together, rather than this to purchase privilege through this toff quota. Should neo-liberal vision that he has for our universities, this principle be extended, perhaps to allow mummy undermining their integrity and world-class reputation? and daddy to purchase a parliamentary seat, the odd ambassadorship or even, dare I say it, a top judge’s job? Mr Willetts: We absolutely do want the public and Mr Willetts: If that constitutes the Labour party’s private sectors to work together. That is why we do not response to our proposals, we can understand why our like the regime that we inherited from the previous party is serious about improving conditions in our Government, which had what are called “closed places”— country and Labour is not. that is, specially restricted places that are the only off-quota places that employers can sponsor. I very Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East much value the advice of the right hon. Member for Cleveland) (Lab): What consultation did the Secretary Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes)—who, of State have with UCAS before launching the policy, if I might say so, made a powerful intervention in a and what was its response? Will he clarify what the previous debate in this House on higher education, only range of fees will be for students who try to jump the last week or the week before, about how our student queue? finance reforms will work, which was exactly the right way forward for student finance in this country. Mr Willetts: As I have said, the idea was in public [Interruption.] speeches to Universities UK and the Higher Education Funding Council for England. The proposals will be Mr Speaker: Order. I want to hear—and I am sure further set out in the White Paper, after which there will that the House wants to hear—Mr Dave Watts. be further consultation. Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): Wealthy families Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Will the often set up charitable trusts for themselves. How will Minister explain what is to stop a rich businessman the Minister prevent family-run charitable trusts from buying his son a place at university? circumventing his rules and buying places, given that they are governed by exactly the same charity legislation Mr Willetts: Admission to university is determined as the other charities to which he has referred? by the university. It is the university that has the admission standards, which cannot be compromised, the university Mr Willetts: It is very important that endowments for that does needs-blind admissions, which cannot be universities absolutely meet the criteria of fair access, compromised, and the university that is bound by the and that there should be genuinely additional places clear conditions I have set out. Of course there is no and no reduction in entry standards. It is the university suggestion that anyone other than the university looking that will decide who is admitted, and it is essential that at who can best benefit from a course should be deciding we do not compromise on that principle. on admission to university. After our White Paper, 1039 Off-quota University Places 10 MAY 2011 1040

[Mr Willetts] Passenger Name Records when we have a further opportunity to debate our proposals, I very much hope that it will be possible to 4.5 pm carry forward these exchanges, to show that we on the The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green): With Government Benches remain committed to expanding permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement our universities and improving social mobility in our on the draft EU directive on passenger name records— country. PNRs—and the Government’s decision to opt into it. My appearance today fulfils a commitment that I made to the European Scrutiny Committee. Global travel brings with it countless benefits—economic, cultural and social—and there is no doubt that our more interconnected world is a better world, but greater freedom of movement also provides opportunities for those who wish to do us harm. We know that terrorists have long had an interest in aviation-related attacks. We know, too, that serious criminals, people traffickers and drug smugglers have exploited easy international forms of travel to carry out their crimes. They often plan and execute their crimes in meticulous detail, using intricate ruses to escape detection and capture. In response, Governments around the world are increasingly exercising greater vigilance to keep their citizens safe. Passenger name records—passenger data collected by air carriers as part of the operation of their business—are a vital and proven tool in the fight against terrorism and other serious crimes. Passenger name records help our law enforcement agencies to prevent, detect, investigate and prosecute terrorists and other serious criminals. Their power lies in the fact that, by using an automated system and interrogating it intelligently, we are able to sift data quickly and in such a way that they reveal patterns and make links that would otherwise not be readily apparent. For example, the case of David Headley, the terrorist facilitator convicted in the US of involvement in the Mumbai attacks, shows the benefits of PNRs. All that was available to US investigators initially was the first name, “David”, a vague travel window of “the next few weeks” and the partial travel itinerary of a flight from the United States to Germany. The US used these PNR data in association with other known flight information to identify the suspect before he could travel. Headley was later arrested and pleaded guilty to terrorism-related crimes. PNR data therefore have a proven capability to protect our citizens from harm. Along with advance passenger information—API—PNRs are a crucial element of the UK’s own e-Borders system. Since 2005, e-Borders has led to more than 1,500 people being refused entry and to more than 8,700 arrests, including 57 for murder, 175 for rape or sexual assault, 25 for kidnapping, 441 for fraud, 397 for drugs offences and 920 for violence. That is why we committed to supporting e-Borders in our coalition agreement. Critical to our decision of opting into the directive was the aim of securing an ability to mandate the collection of PNR data on flights between two EU member states, for the full usefulness of the system to be realised. I am pleased to say that the coalition Government made significant progress on this, ahead of the opt-in deadline, and that the European Council has given a clear political signal that it favours collection of data on intra-EU flights, following a UK amendment to that effect. The Home Secretary pressed the argument for it at the April Justice and Home Affairs Council 1041 Passenger Name Records10 MAY 2011 Passenger Name Records 1042 meeting, which has been reported to the House via help protect citizens from harm. The draft proposals letters to the Chairs of both scrutiny Committees. At are based on each member state collecting and analysing the Council, 15 member states supported the UK’s the data, and we will vigorously stand by that way of position to include intra-EU data collection. So, although operating. Indeed, the current directive would not allow we have reservations about some aspects of the directive for the creation of an EU-wide database. We must that will need to be resolved in due course, we can enter recognise that criminals are no respecters of national into negotiations from a position of strength, knowing boundaries—they will exploit any perceived gaps or that we have the support of a majority of other member weaknesses within the EU—so it is our collective states on this key issue for the UK. Indeed, the official responsibility to ensure that we close loopholes, wherever outcome of proceedings of the 11 April JHA Council and whenever we can. states that Finally, carriers will not be required to collect any “the preparatory work on the draft PNR Directive will continue...on more data than they already collect as part of an the basis of the indication by the Council that the Directive ordinary business transaction. Transmission costs will should allow individual Member States the option to mandate the be borne by the carrier, and have been estimated by the collection of PNR data with regard to targeted intra-EU flights”. Commission at less than 8p per passenger per flight—a The draft directive as it stands is not perfect, but it is small price to pay for increased safety and security. right that we work with our European partners to get a Opting in to this directive is good for our safety, good directive that best serves Britain’s interests. Initial for our security and good for our citizens. It is necessary parliamentary scrutiny of the directive has already taken and right. Opting in to this directive will make Britain a place, but it will continue as the negotiations progress. safer place. I commend this statement to the House. Debates have been held in both Houses. The Lords strongly recommended that we opt into the directive and the Commons supported the Government’s negotiating Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab): position. We already have domestic legislation to underpin I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement. the collection of PNR data, but the directive will provide The current UK regime that allows for the collection of an unequivocal legal framework at EU level for the PNR data and their use for both immigration control collection and sharing of such data. I know, however, and combating terrorism was brought in by the previous that some hon. Members have concerns about the PNR Labour Government through their creation and roll-out directive, which I want to address directly today. of the e-Borders programme. We therefore recognise the vital importance of the role played by PNR data to Let me address the two basic issues of why using achieve both those policy objectives. PNRs is both necessary and proportionate. I set out earlier how PNR data have been used to target suspected Given that PNRs are a proven tool for the prevention terrorists. The application of this data also has wider and detection of serious crime and terrorism, we believe benefits in tackling serious organised crime. For example, that it is sensible to have a Europe-wide regime to in 2009, working with our Italian colleagues, we used ensure similarity of methodology and approach to PNR PNR data to identify Chinese passengers attempting to rather than have member states going their own way travel to London from Italy in a human trafficking and making individual agreements. We are thus supportive operation. This led to the conviction in the Italian of the UK decision to opt in to the directive. courts of several traffickers in January 2010. Modern We note the different approach taken by the criminality requires modern methods to seek out and Conservatives, now that they sit on the Government shut down criminal activity. We cannot just focus on Front Bench, to EU co-operation on home affairs and solving crimes after they have happened; instead, we justice matters. That was not something they championed must use the tools available to prevent them from happening in opposition, but, as we have seen with their change of in the first place. heart on the extension of the European arrest warrant Our commitment to a proportionate approach is and their position on PNR data today, that is what made clear by our proposal to collect data only on happens when rhetoric confronts reality. It is a shame routes of high risk, whether these are between a third that the Minister took such a long time to sign the country and a member state or between member states. directive on human trafficking, where the reality is so Our starting position is thus about reducing the amount shocking. of data collected rather than imposing blanket coverage As the Minister has already told us, the biggest on all routes from outside the EU as the directive change between the first draft directive and the new currently proposes. A further benefit of our approach is draft directive is the inclusion of intra-EU flights within that it should help make costs manageable, in terms of its scope. That is a positive step. As the Minister and I both data transmission by carriers, and management discussed in European Committee B, the inclusion of and maintenance of the system by the member state. We intra-EU flights is necessary to prevent a security gap will want to see stringent data protection requirements, from emerging. Will the Minister tell us whether negotiations overseen by independent information commissioners, are continuing with the member states that have not yet so that people’s rights over their personal data are expressed support for the proposal—in particular, protected. We will also work to ensure that the directive Germany—and give us his assessment of the effectiveness allows data to be retained only for as long as is necessary of the directive without universal support for the inclusion and proportionate to the task in hand. of intra-EU flights? Thirdly, some hon. Members will have concerns about I note from the new draft directive that the new sovereignty. Let me be clear: this directive is not about article 1(a) leaves open the ability of member states to handing over responsibility to a European institution. decide which intra-EU routes they wish to include in Rather, it is about member states collecting and processing their PNR data collection coverage, and I note from the PNR data on travel under an agreed legal framework to Minister’s statement that, in the UK at least, that will 1043 Passenger Name Records10 MAY 2011 Passenger Name Records 1044

[Shabana Mahmood] in the context of the directive. Does the Minister believe that the Government are adopting a consistent approach, focus data collection on routes that are considered to be or will they continue to be—as they are at present—all high risk. However, there is a danger that that will over the place? displace the problem rather than deal with it. If potential Using appropriate information in the fight against criminals and terrorists know that certain routes are serious crime and terrorism is, of course, entirely necessary. being targeted, they are likely to move to other routes. We welcome this European initiative, which may make Is the Minister confident that we have the necessary the Government think again about the fight against flexibility and resources to pre-empt that, and to ensure other serious crime. that we keep pace with what is a constantly changing and developing security picture? Damian Green: I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s One of the questions I raised with the Minister when support for the Government’s decision, although I am this matter was last debated in the House was whether slightly puzzled by her suggestion that there has been all terrorism offences under the Terrorism Acts 2000 some enormous change since my party was in opposition, and 2006 would be within the scope of the directive given that from 2005 onwards the Opposition spokesman allowing PNR data to be collected and shared. The on this subject was me. There has been no change at all, Minister has written to me. I note that he does not yet either in the person of the spokesman or in the attitude know whether all those offences will be covered, and I have taken to PNR and the collection of data. What that we are doing is putting into practice what we said in “complex legal analysis” opposition. will be required The hon. Lady asked a number of specific questions. “during the negotiations to determine the overlap between definitions Negotiations are continuing now that we have decided in the Directive and those in our domestic legislation”. to opt into the directive. She asked whether the directive will be useful if it ends up not containing the intra-EU The UK regime for counter-terrorism reflects the provisions that we regard as so important. First, I UK’s national experience, and is therefore more extensive should emphasise that we have already ensured that a in some ways than the regimes of other European majority of member states are now in favour, so we are Union states. Legislative parity, given the extensive extremely hopeful of getting this in place. Secondly, it provisions of the Terrorism Acts and, will therefore be will be useful, but not as useful as it will be if the vital. May I impress on the Minister the importance of intra-EU travel provisions are allowed. keeping that point under review, and will he assure the House that it will be a priority as negotiations continue? The hon. Lady asked about targeting and whether we can keep pace. It is an important point that some routes One of the important features of the UK’s internal are much more high risk than others, so concentrating arrangements is that through the e-Borders programme our resources on them is likely to make us more effective we can use API and PNR data together, and can use than just having a blanket collection. We and other both types of data set for crime fighting and immigration countries will need to flex to meet the circumstances. control purposes. I know that the Minister agrees that The hon. Lady is right that criminals and terrorists will the full benefits of e-Borders are realised when API and change their patterns of activity. One of the advantages PNR data are collected and used together. of collecting PNR is that it enables us to see patterns I have asked the Minister before whether he thinks emerging and changing, and to meet that by being that the current directive is sufficiently clear to enable fleeter of foot in changing the routes we cover. the UK to continue to use PNR data for immigration The hon. Lady mentioned our exchange in Committee control purposes, but I note that the potentially relevant on terrorism offences. She read out part of my letter to paragraphs of the draft directive remain unchanged. her, but neglected to continue. The answer to her question Will the Minister assure the House that signing up to is in the next couple of lines: the draft directive will not diminish or weaken the UK’s e-Borders programme in any way, and that he will “As the negotiations progress…we will need to keep this point under review and, if necessary, seek any changes during the continue to press for clarity in the directive in order to passage of the Directive.” leave no doubt that member states can collect and use PNR data not just in respect of terrorism and serious That is, of course, what we are going to do. crime, but for immigration control? There should be no I am happy to be able to assure the hon. Lady that unintended consequences that would prevent the UK this will not diminish our e-Borders programme. I should from maintaining effective control of its border. point out to her that the most effective immigration The draft directive currently states that PNR data part of the e-Borders programme is the API collection, will be collected and retained for a period of 30 days, not the PNR collection. I am sorry to be talking in after which it will be anonymised and held for a further jargon to the House. The API data are essentially the five years. The UK Government have been pressing for basic information that comes off the passport of any the data to be held for much longer than that. First, will traveller. The collection of that is what will enable us, the Minister tell the House where the negotiations stand under e-Borders, to count people out as well as in, and in relation to that important part of the proposal? that is what is crucial for immigration. Secondly, will he explain how this conforms with the The hon. Lady talked about the period of time for coalition Government’s emphasis on the removal of which data will be held. That will be at the core of the data held for the purposes of fighting serious crime? negotiations, and it is extremely important. Under the That is what they are doing by weakening the DNA current British e-Borders system, we hold the data for, database under the Protection of Freedoms Bill, but essentially, 10 years, and we think that is too long. The they do not seem to be particularly concerned about it Commission is proposing 30 days, and for it then to be 1045 Passenger Name Records10 MAY 2011 Passenger Name Records 1046 anonymised for a few years. The Canadians have a international sharing of information that he suggests—I different system again, under which it is held for three agree that that would be bad for data protection issues. and a half years. This issue will be at the heart of the On the e-Borders system, we are indeed proceeding with negotiations. letting the new contracts. We already have more than As for the hon. Lady’s idea that there is any inconsistency 90% of routes outside the EU covered by e-Borders and between our approach on this and our approach on we hope that within the next 12 months that coverage domestic data collection, that is absolutely dead wrong. will be more or less complete, so that will proceed As I emphasised in my statement, we believe in the quickly. Clearly the biggest single gap in the e-Borders necessary and proportionate use of data to combat coverage is within the EU, which is what this directive is crime and terrorism, while preserving the civil liberties very precisely going to help us with. of the British people. That is what we apply in our domestic field, and that is what we will apply in the Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): The international field as well. Minister rightly says that the directive will make Britain safer, but will he say a little more about the safeguards? Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con) rose— Specifically, will he confirm that the data will not be used for profiling and that the UK’s data protection Mr Speaker: Order. In wishing the hon. Gentleman a standards will apply? happy birthday, I call Mr William Cash. Damian Green: I am very happy to give my hon. Mr Cash: I am extremely grateful to you, Mr Speaker; Friend that specific assurance that the data will not be thank you very much for that. used for profiling. Indeed, the amount of sensitive As the Minister knows, the European Scrutiny personal data that will be put on the system is one of Committee is somewhat concerned, to say the least, the liveliest matters for negotiation. I entirely share his about the blizzard of opt-ins and the fact that the instincts, which I know to be that although data need to negotiations on a number of very important matters are be collected and stored for the protection of our citizens, still going on. There is therefore some concern about that must done proportionately. In many ways, the ideal the possibility of our opting in on the hoof, and we will situation is that we collect and store the exact minimum keep these negotiations under close scrutiny, in particular of data that we need to enhance the security of the the negotiation on the length of time for the retention people and do not drift into the situation that the of data, but also that on the definition of a serious previous Government fell into. They believed that they crime and the question of proportionality in using these made us safer by collecting and storing more and more data for offences such as racism, xenophobia and sabotage. data and keeping them for longer. That did not make There is also the whole issue of sensitive personal data any British citizen safer but it did amount to an assault in itself. I know the Minister is apprised of these issues, on our civil liberties. but will he understand that we are extremely concerned and that as there are these important continuing Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): The Minister has said negotiations it is not good enough simply to say, “We on a number of occasions that opting into this directive will accept it in principle and then discuss it all afterwards”? will make Britain safer. I presume that he meant to say the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Damian Green: First, may I add my good wishes to Ireland, although I frequently hear Ministers refer to my hon. Friend on reaching his 39th birthday? I assure “Britain”. He said that this approach would be used him that the Government are keenly aware not only of “only on routes of high risk, whether these are between the key issues he has raised but that he and his Committee a third country and a member state or between member will be scrutinising what the Government do. Indeed, as states.” Does he envisage it ever being used for journeys the negotiations are likely to go on for at least a year, if between Belfast and London? not longer, there will undoubtedly be opportunities for the Committee to return to its perfectly proper scrutiny arrangements during that time. Damian Green: I am perhaps careless in saying “Britain” when I mean the United Kingdom, and I am happy to Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): May I also support assure the hon. Lady that I mean the United Kingdom the Government’s decision to opt in to this directive? on this occasion. Like her, I regard flights between The Minister has dealt adequately with the two issues Belfast and London as being entirely British domestic raised by the Home Affairs Committee when it considered flights and therefore certainly not included in the terms the matter—privacy and cost—but will he confirm that the of an international agreement between EU member information being collected will not be shared outside states. the EU? It had been suggested that it might be given to other countries, such as the United States. Secondly, Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): I congratulate will he also assure us that now that the contracts have my hon. Friend on what seems to be a very pragmatic been issued under the e-Borders programme, which of anti-terrorism measure, but will he tell the House how course suffered an unfortunate delay under the previous the implementation of this directive fits into the Government, it will be fully operational by 2014, when Government’s very positive record of balancing civil he may still be the Immigration Minister? liberties, on the one hand, and anti-terrorism work, on the other? Damian Green: The right hon. Gentleman always paints a happy prospect of life ahead. I am grateful for Damian Green: It will fit in during the course of the his support and on the data protection issues I can say negotiations, and I hope that my hon. Friend will that the British information will be dealt with by the observe that we want to reach a position in which the British Government, so we will not see the random amount of information collected, as well as the length 1047 Passenger Name Records10 MAY 2011 Passenger Name Records 1048

[Damian Green] opting out at the end if we discover that the negotiations have gone wrong. This is a question of taking every case of time for which we keep it, are proportionate, and the on its merits, and that is what we seek to do. number of offences for which it is used is both sensible Oddly enough, what has happened in the past 24 hours and proportionate. I take the point raised by my hon. illustrates the virtues of such pragmatism. For the trafficking Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), which must be directive it was sensible to opt in at the end of the considered, too. We will be concentrating hard on those process, and for this directive it was sensible to do so at details of the negotiations, always with the view that we the beginning. With other directives it will be sensible want to ensure that this measure is entirely consistent for us not to opt in at all, because they might be with our stance of enhancing both security and civil harmful. I can assure the hon. Lady that the Government liberties. will continue to operate a pragmatic case-by-case approach to such directives. Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): I congratulate the Minister and the Government on opting in to this important directive. I also welcome the Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): My view is eventual, although late, decision to opt in to the human completely the reverse of what the hon. Member for trafficking directive at the end of the negotiations. Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) has just Contrary to the advice that he has received from the said. It was absolutely right to opt in to the human hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash), does the Minister trafficking directive yesterday after it was finalised. I agree that it is important for the UK to opt into such am a bit worried that we are now opting in to a directive directives at the start of the process, so that we can be at that we cannot opt out of before we see the final the forefront of negotiating the finer detail of the version, although the Minister already has concerns proposals? We did not have the chance to do that with about it. Why does he think that we should opt in now, the European human trafficking directive. rather than waiting until the end, as we did with the human trafficking directive? Damian Green: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her support, but I do not agree that we should take a Damian Green: Because one of the crucial elements blanket decision always to opt in at the beginning. With of this directive concerns travel between EU states. some directives, of which this is one, we are clearly That, more than anything else, is what will help make leading a majority of European countries towards a British citizens safer, as 72% of the flights in and out of position that would be extremely desirable, and without this country are flights between EU member states. which the directive would be much less powerful. As for Although the directive would still be useful if it did not the human trafficking directive that we agreed to opt in cover such flights, it would be significantly less useful. to last night, in that case there was more of a threat We have devoted our negotiating efforts, successfully so than a promise during the negotiation procedure, and far, towards building a coalition in the EU to promote we needed to know that when we reached the end of the that policy. So far, that is going well. This is a prime procedure the directive would still be entirely safe for example of where opting in at the beginning and leading Britain. As the hon. Lady will know, one difficulty is the discussions will be to the advantage of this country that if we opt in at the beginning there is no chance of and its citizens. 1049 10 MAY 2011 1050

Point of Order Lip-reading Motion for leave to introduce a Bill (Standing Order 4.33 pm No. 23) Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): On a point of order, Mr Speaker, of which I believe that you 4.35 pm have been given advance notice. You may be aware that this morning the Select Committee on Standards and Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): I beg to move, Privileges met to consider the confidential report from That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require lip-reading to be the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards following classified as an essential skill for the purpose of skills funding; to the self-referral to the commissioner of my right hon. require the Secretary of State to ensure that people who are deaf Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr Laws). Shortly after or hard of hearing have access to lip-reading classes provided by local learning providers at no cost to the learner; and for connected the conclusion of that meeting, Sky News and the purposes. Evening Standard were reporting that the commissioner had found my right hon. Friend guilty of breaching There are an estimated 9 million people in the UK expenses rules. What protection is available to hon. and who are deaf or hard of hearing—a staggering one in right hon. Members who find themselves in such a seven of the population—and this issue touches every position? Such leaking risks undermining the work of family in every community in the land. Lip-reading is a the commissioner and of the Committee on which we vital communication skill. It prevents social isolation, all rely. What confidence can my right hon. Friend have increases confidence and independence and helps people that he has been, and will continue to be, given a fair in work and in employment. It is a key part of the hearing and that the principles of natural justice will be rehabilitation process for people with any kind of hearing upheld? loss, and it can greatly help people to adapt to using a hearing aid. Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the right hon. and There are a number of reasons why someone might learned Gentleman for his point of order, and to the be deaf or might lose their hearing, including, but not right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland only, noise, age and genetics. In areas such as my (Mr Carmichael), for giving me advance notice of the constituency and throughout the north-east, exposure intention to raise it. Like the right hon. and learned to noise in mining, shipbuilding, engineering and other Gentleman and other hon. and right hon. Members, I heavy industry has contributed significantly to the problem. strongly deprecate any leaks that take place that constitute More than 50% of people over 60 have experienced a discourtesy to this House. However, I have to say to hearing loss, and about one in every 1,000 babies born is him that at this stage I have no detailed or authoritative moderately to profoundly deaf. knowledge of the matter and that it is not, at this I recently met constituents and volunteers at a Royal juncture, a matter specifically for me. However, the very National Institute for Deaf People meeting in the town real concern that the right hon. and learned Gentleman of Morpeth in my constituency. I should like to place feels, for his own part and that of others, has been on record my support for the excellent work undertaken registered, and if there has been any unauthorised by the RNID, its staff and its network of hard-working disclosure it is, in the first instance, a matter for the volunteers. At the meeting I had an opportunity to Committee concerned to consider. I hope that is a clear learn about the hearing problems that my constituents and fair response. I am grateful to the right hon. and have, about how their everyday lives are affected and learned Gentleman. about the huge difference that lip-reading would make to their quality of life. I want to share some of their thoughts and personal experiences with you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and with the House, because they effectively illustrate the need for, and the benefits of, lip-reading. One of my constituents, a 69-year-old former miner, was in his 20s when his hearing went rapidly into terminal decline. He came out of a session at the local swimming baths to discover that he was deaf. Although he is articulate, intelligent and motivated, his inability to hear has had a huge impact on his and his family’s lives. He regularly attended lip-reading classes and found them enjoyable and sociable. His confidence improved and he could interpret lip shapes to communicate with others. He was learning to lip-read when the classes were stopped. He was making good progress and the classes were making a real difference to his confidence, so it was a huge disappointment and setback when they were stopped. In another case, a man who had been in the armed forces and later employed in the building trade lost his hearing on a holiday flight as the aeroplane began to land. He became deaf and his hearing never returned. His hearing loss caused him severe depression and caused problems in his relationships with his wife and family. He eventually lost his job because of his hearing 1051 Lip-reading10 MAY 2011 Lip-reading 1052

[Ian Lavery] Her hearing loss has caused her severe problems throughout her life. Some six years ago, in her mid-50s, she was loss, could no longer communicate by telephone, and considered as a candidate for an implant. The operation missed so much conversation that all involved became took place in Middlesbrough and was extremely expensive concerned for his welfare. He became known to the care for the NHS. For the first time in decades she could trust and was assigned a specialist social worker. He hear sounds and was able to distinguish between them. attended lip-reading classes, which met his needs. The It took time for the “Dalek-like stimulus”—her description, course was local, always full and with a waiting list, and not mine—to be assimilated by the brain and for her to cost-effective. He found that meeting other people assisted make sense of people’s mouth shapes. him in his mental health recovery. The lip-reading classes Hearing again has made an enormous difference to were abruptly stopped, and concern mounted for his my constituent and her family. She has had good support welfare. from the NHS. However, she feels that although she is The man was eventually sent, together with his wife, fortunate and that the pre and post-operative care were on a LINK course financed by the NHS after referral good, there was a vital ingredient missing from her by the care trust. LINK is a specialist course for those long-term care—lip-reading classes. who have hearing loss, and because it is residential and Lip-reading is classified in the UK as personal and out of the area—it is usually held in Bournemouth—it community development learning within adult safeguarded is an expensive course, which is financed by the care learning. The Skills Funding Agency policy summaries trust. Had lip-reading classes not been stopped, they describe one of the purposes of such learning as enjoyment. would have met his needs and those of his family The document also highlights the fact that adult safeguarded locally. Lip-reading classes would have stopped the learning social isolation that he experienced and, in his case, “is increasingly being referred to as Informal Adult Learning”. would have negated the need for costly NHS mental health intervention, which required him to travel to Examples of other skills in the same classification are Bournemouth. cake decorating and balloon modelling. There appears to be a postcode lottery in the UK for Another case is that of a chap working in education. lip-reading classes. Surely that cannot be acceptable. He took early retirement after 26 years because of his The benefits of someone learning to lip-read are well deafness, which prevented him from being an effective proven. It assists greatly in employment, health and life teacher. He was unable to hear young children who skills. From my experience it is clear that there is a were learning to read. Ironically, he became a part-time demand for lip-reading classes, and urgent action must lecturer at a local university, teaching local history. He be taken to halt the current decline in the number of said, “I can teach, but I can’t listen!” His family have classes available. had deafness problems throughout the generations. He read a novel, “Deaf Sentence” by David Lodge, which In all our constituencies and communities there are showed how lip-reading improves the individual’s quality individuals and families who would benefit hugely from of life. At the time he was concerned that he had the provision of such a service. It is our responsibility to withdrawn from the company of others and had stopped ensure that those services are available locally and at no doing things that he enjoyed. cost to the learner. We must remember that one in seven people suffer from hearing loss—9 million people in the The man searched for a lip-reading class and joined UK. Lip-reading classes should be treated very seriously Northumberland RNID as an active volunteer. He was indeed. The simple fact is that we should all band amazed that there were no lip-reading classes available together, and there should be no dissent from the motion in Northumberland, yet in Durham, the adjoining county, so that we can ensure that all people suffering from nine classes were held throughout the year. The round serious hearing loss at least have the chance to attend trip to the classes in Durham was more than 100 miles lip-reading classes, and a modicum of quality of life as so it was not practical to travel. He believes that this life a result. skill should be available to all and free at the point of Question put and agreed to. service. Lip-reading should not be regarded as a recreational pursuit. He says, “To suggest that lip-reading should be Ordered, linked to adult education or leisure is deeply insulting to That Ian Lavery, Grahame M. Morris, Ian Mearns, those of us with hearing difficulties.” Mrs Sharon Hodgson, Catherine McKinnell, Mr David The final case is that of a constituent who became Anderson, Mrs Mary Glindon, Mr Ronnie Campbell, profoundly deaf as a four-year-old child, following an Mr Dennis Skinner and John Cryer present the Bill. illness. She struggled in mainstream school and felt Ian Lavery accordingly presented the Bill. excluded and lonely. She later married and raised her Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on twin daughters together with her loving, caring family. Friday 4 November, and to be printed (Bill 186). 1053 10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1054

Energy Bill [Lords] Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Given the looming shortage of capacity, how much new capacity Second Reading is in-build as a result of decisions taken in the last year, and how much does the Minister wish to get in-build as 4.47 pm a result of decisions in the forthcoming year? The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (Chris Huhne): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read Chris Huhne: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman a Second time. for his question on that issue. Obviously, there is an Over the past year, energy policy has been in the absolutely central objective of the electricity market spotlight. From the gulf of Mexico to Fukushima, no reforms, on which we are consulting, and it is that we one can doubt the importance of our energy choices. bring forward proposals. We are determined that we For the first time, scientists have linked greenhouse gas should have an adequate supply margin through even emissions to an increased risk of major floods. Faced the toughest of winters. My whole ministerial team is with a difficult financial situation, the Government’s determined to ensure that, and I merely urge him to objectives are clear: we must secure affordable energy wait for our White Paper, which will I hope reassure supplies for the future and avoid dangerous climate him about the prospect. change. Neither will be easy. The gap between our Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): In the energy demand and our energy supply is growing and light of what the Secretary of State has just said, what we are increasingly dependent on imported energy. We does he make of Centrica’s threat not to reopen its gas still rely heavily on unclean and unsustainable fossil field because of the punitive taxation that his colleagues fuels. By law, we must cut our emissions by 80% by have imposed on it? If he really wants security of 2050, and we must get 15% of our energy from renewable supply, surely that is central to its future. sources by 2020 under EU law. Our energy infrastructure is ageing. Our old polluting power stations are shutting Chris Huhne: Perhaps the right hon. Lady has more down. information on that than I do. I read the comments very carefully, but I did not read a comment about closing Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): While the Secretary down the Morecambe gas field. That would be a very of State is talking about the targets, will he expand on odd thing for an operator to do, but we will have to wait the dispute that appears to be taking place between for the fullness of time to see whether she or I are right. Cabinet colleagues on whether the recommendations of the Committee on Climate Change should be met or Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab) rose— abandoned? Joan Ruddock rose— Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman can take it from me, as a former journalist on The Guardian, that he Chris Huhne: I will give way once more—to the right should not always believe everything he reads. The hon. Gentleman—before making a little more progress. Government will make our announcement on the question of the fourth carbon budget in due course. Mr Andrew Smith: The Secretary of State said a few Building the next generation of power plants will moments ago that we need to act now to combat climate take time and money. If we are to cut our carbon change. Will he therefore act now to bring in emissions emissions and keep the lights on, we must act now. The performance standards for power stations by adding an cheapest way of closing the gap between supply and enabling clause to the Bill, so that we make progress in demand is to reduce the amount of energy used. that crucial area as soon as possible, the electricity companies know where we stand, and we do not have to Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): The wait months and years for action that, as he says, needs Government are rightly concerned about fuel poverty to be taken now? and whether customers are paying too much for their energy—a situation not helped by a myriad of tariffs Chris Huhne: The right hon. Gentleman knows that it and complex energy bills. As my right hon. Friend’s is not a question of months or years; the proper place fellow Ministers know, I have submitted simple proposals for the House to debate as significant a change as to his Department that would oblige energy companies emissions performance standards is as part of the electricity to show customers how much they would save if they market reforms. We will give a very clear indication, as were on that company’s cheapest standard tariff, based I said to the right hon. Member for Wokingham on the customer’s actual usage, rather than a generic or (Mr Redwood), of exactly what direction we are taking average usage. Other Ministers have been supportive. with our energy policy on the production side. The Will he be? thrust of this Bill, which we are debating today, is more on the energy saving side, but we will make very clear Chris Huhne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I the detailed proposals on emissions performance standards. know that he has been very active in promoting that We have a clear commitment in the coalition agreement— cause. I thank him for the way in which he has been and, indeed, in our parties’ manifestos. championing that change, which will help to increase consumers’ control of their energy bills, and I very Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) much hope that he will continue to do so. I can certainly (SNP): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? say—for myself and the whole ministerial team—that we are supportive of his work and the ideas that he has Chris Huhne: I am going to make a bit more progress, brought forward; we see a lot of merit in them. I would if I may, and if the hon. Gentleman will excuse me, want to consult more before introducing detailed legislation, because I have taken four interventions without being but we very much welcome the thrust of that work. able to draw breath between any of them. 1055 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1056

[Chris Huhne] and moved on, so there is a longer repayment period. That makes the whole scheme much more financeable Building the next generation of power plants will and much more attractive. take time and money. If we are to cut our carbon emissions and keep the lights on, we must act, and the Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): My right hon. Friend cheapest way of closing the gap between supply and refers to the companies that will undertake the assessments demand is, as I said, to reduce energy use. and potentially the work itself. Has he had time to The Bill contains provisions to boost our energy reflect on the lessons from the Warm Front scheme, security, to encourage low-carbon technologies and to where large companies cleaned up all that work when a improve energy efficiency. It gives energy companies a lot of it could have been undertaken efficiently by small new obligation to reduce carbon emissions and to support local companies? Will he ensure that the way in which vulnerable consumers, and it delivers a key coalition the legislation is framed does not keep those small local commitment: the green deal—a self-financing building companies out of undertaking this important work? improvement scheme to bring our properties into the 21st century. Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend makes a good point. The UK has some of the oldest and least efficient We are absolutely determined to ensure that this scheme buildings in Europe. Every day, throughout the country, is open to small businesses that are properly accredited our homes and businesses leak heat and waste energy. and properly qualified as installers. I am sure that all of us, in all parts of the House, want not only the biggest Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): As up to companies but small businesses to benefit from the 24% of heat can go out of the window, will double advantages of the green deal. glazing be included in the green deal? Barry Gardiner: The right hon. Gentleman talked Chris Huhne: The exact specifications of the measures about householders moving and the contract then being that can be included in the green deal are properly left taken on. However, in the evaluation process that took to secondary legislation—and for several reasons, because place at the beginning, the estimated savings were based setting it out will require detail and my officials are in on usage by the initial occupier. What will happen when the process of talking to industries throughout the the occupier changes and those savings then change as country about getting costs down. The scale of the well? green deal gives us an opportunity for economies of scale that may well bring a whole new series of measures Chris Huhne: As the hon. Gentleman knows, when into the possibilities that it offers. I would very much we are looking at savings or cash flow, money today is like to see the maximum possible range of measures— worth more than money tomorrow, so from the point of including, indeed, double glazing. As the hon. Gentleman view of the installer, the longer the period, the more the rightly says, a quarter of the UK’s energy emissions work is worth doing. The key change in the Bill is to come from energy used in the home, and billions of introduce the ability to go beyond the existing owner- pounds spent on domestic heating literally disappear up occupier or tenant in order to spread payments out over the chimney. Businesses are wasting money and our a long period. outdated building stock is costing us the earth. Not any At the heart of the green deal is a golden rule—that more: under the green deal— for typical households, expected savings will offset costs. Each month, a green deal home will save energy while Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): Does providing the same level of comfort. Money from likely my right hon. Friend accept that the biggest problem is energy savings will pay off the costs of the work. This is in the private rented sector, and that one of the best not a personal loan. Let me repeat: once a property has ways to deal with some of the worst properties is to stop had the green deal, payment will stay on the energy bill landlords being allowed to let F-rated and G-rated at that address, even if the occupants then move out. properties by 2016? When someone moves into a green deal home, they inherit the energy savings that pay for the work. Everyone Chris Huhne: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, has a part to play. This is about Government helping and I will respond to his point later if he will allow me businesses and households to come together to deliver to make a bit of progress. energy savings that are important on a national scale. Under the green deal, energy-saving packages worth Through this legislation, we are creating a new market thousands of pounds will be installed in millions of in energy saving. Just as the law establishing joint stock homes and businesses right across the country. There companies unleashed big investment, so this law will set has never been anything quite like it. It is the most the legal framework for a new green growth industry. comprehensive energy-saving plan in the world. Green deal measures will be provided by trusted businesses, Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): The Secretary installed by accredited professionals, and backed up of State said that he is creating a new market. Considerable with a watertight legal framework. Customers will pay consumer protection and competition concerns have nothing up front; businesses will do that for them. Once been expressed to me about the creation of this market. the property has been refitted, green deal providers will What advice has he taken on the aspects of the Bill that get their money back from the expected savings on will set aside the Consumer Credit Act 1974? Is it not energy bills over the lifetime of the measures. This is the the case that many people will feel tied to a particular big change: payments can be made not just by the energy provider? How will he ensure that these measures existing tenant or owner-occupier but by the new do not inhibit people from switching between energy beneficiaries once the original installers have moved out providers? 1057 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1058

Chris Huhne: We have taken extensive advice on the Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman should first realise provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and the that the ECO is not covered by that as yet, although it Bill is absolutely in line with the protections. may be in the future. Secondly, it is legitimate for the In the view of this ministerial team, it is essential that Treasury to have an interest in the taxable capacity of the consumer has the highest possible protection, both the country as a whole. If we impose an additional financially and in terms of the quality of the installation, obligation on electricity consumers through legislation, for the simple reason that the success of the scheme will we should be absolutely transparent about it, and we depend on word of mouth. If people go around saying have committed to do that through the annual energy that they have had a bad experience, either financially statement, for example. It is also absolutely appropriate or in terms of the installation, the scheme will not be that the Treasury should have oversight of that, and that the success that we want it to be. That is why we have there should be ongoing negotiation to ensure that the been careful not to rush the Bill through. A lot of balance is struck between the progress that we want to pressure has been brought to bear on us, because of the see on fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes, and the state of the economy, to ensure that we get it through as charges that are put on the electricity consumer. quickly as possible, but we have been determined, particularly drawing on the experience of Australia, to Several hon. Members rose— avoid the mistakes of countries that have rushed this Chris Huhne: I will make a little progress, if I may. matter, and to ensure that we get it right. I assure the hon. Gentleman that we have done that. I will turn to Millions of homes, and millions of businesses, could some of the more detailed answers to his question later. benefit from the green deal in the next decade. We expect that households will be able to install measures Joan Ruddock rose— worth up to £10,000. That is a massive undertaking, and it can make a real difference. Heating is the second Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) rose— biggest driver of energy demand in Britain, and British Chris Huhne: I give way to the hon. Lady who has not Gas pilots show that householders who put in energy yet intervened. efficiency measures can cut their gas consumption, and their bills, by up to 44%. That is a very substantial and Caroline Lucas: I am grateful for the opportunity to significant saving, but so far energy efficiency has passed speak. Is it not the case that the golden rule will not help under the radar. We estimate that between £2 billion people in fuel poverty much because they are far more and £3 billion of energy is wasted every year because likely to feel any green deal benefits through greater our homes are poorly insulated and inefficiently run. thermal comfort rather than through reduced fuel bills? We may as well be standing outside our front doors The energy company obligation pot does not have much burning £50 notes. That waste represents £2 billion to money in it, although £2 billion is a good start. However, £3 billion of gas and oil imports that make us more even that is being paid for by a levy on consumers’ bills, vulnerable to the vagaries of global oil and gas markets. and there is research to suggest that that mechanism will push more people into fuel poverty than it pulls Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): What estimate out. have the Government made of the contribution that the energy efficiency measures in the Bill will make to the Chris Huhne: I do not agree with the hon. Lady’s UK’s obligations on reducing carbon emissions? assessment. It is important to deal with people in fuel poverty. The energy company obligation, as she pointed Chris Huhne: One problem that we have in making out, will enable us to fund green deal measures for those that assessment is that, as I have said, this is the first in fuel poverty. The ECO will ensure that people, such scheme of its kind in the world. If an economist is as the stereotypical little old lady in her extremely trying to make a projection of what is going to happen draughty home who could suffer from hypothermia, in future, they usually examine what has happened in can enjoy more comfort and do not have to generate the past, but there is no history for this scheme, so it will energy savings to install insulation. The hon. Lady is be a case of “suck it and see”. However, later in my right that we want such people to have more comfort speech I will give some estimates of what will happen if and to enjoy a higher temperature, because we do not the scheme progresses as rapidly as I would like it to. want to see our fellow citizens dying from hypothermia. Proving more comfort is explicitly allowed for in the Joan Ruddock: Will the Secretary of State give way? Bill, and we have just introduced legislative measures for the warm home discount. We want to ensure that Chris Huhne: I happily give way to the right hon. there are means through the green deal to tackle the Lady for a second time. root of the problem of fuel poverty, and to deal with Joan Ruddock: I am exceedingly grateful. fuel poverty problems for those who have not benefited from that. I have to say that much of what the Secretary of State is telling the House is familiar to me, as the person who Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): On pioneered and piloted so much of the history of the the ECO, does the right hon. Gentleman regret agreeing green scheme that he denies exists. What conversations with the Treasury cap on Department of Energy and has he had with the banks? How investment is to be Climate Change levy-based spending over the current raised is the key element that has not been described to funding cycle, under which any new levy spending—if it date. is so defined by the Office for National Statistics—would come within the levy cap? Under that scenario, what Chris Huhne: I am grateful to the right hon. Lady, present levies does he intend to carve out in order to and I pay personal tribute to her for her work on the carve in the ECO? matter. I am not—repeat not—attempting to make any 1059 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1060

[Chris Huhne] us some idea of what he intends the interest rate to be? Most expect that it will be of the order of 8% to 10% partisan points. This has been a genuinely important over a 25-year period, which will rule out very large piece of work to which Members of all parties have numbers of people, particularly the poorest. contributed, and I think it will be a game changer. On the banks, I shall read the right hon. Lady a Chris Huhne: The right hon. Gentleman is right to quotation that I believe sums up better than anything say that the interest rate is important. However, it is up that I could say what is likely to happen with the to competing businesses to arrange that finance. I also financing of the scheme. It comes from Conor Hennebry, very much hope and trust that finance houses will make the director of global capital markets at Deutsche Bank, pools available for the small businesses of which my who says: hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) “We believe the Green Deal has the potential to improve access spoke, so that providers other than the B&Qs and the to home energy efficiency for families across Britain, and we are Scottish and Southerns—the big providers—can get delighted to be working with DECC on this exciting initiative.” involved. The key point is that the securitisation market He added on another occasion that is opening up for such businesses, and the finance “the City is practically champing at the bit to finance the government’s available is at a reasonable level, which I believe will green deal.” ensure that we have take-off. However, the right hon. Gentleman is right that that is a market decision. I believe that the finance for the scheme will come through very strongly.The securitisation market is opening up—Eaga, for example, has already gone to the bond Mr MacNeil: The Secretary of State mentioned qualified market with a securitisation, and many of the utility installers, which in theory are all very well. However, companies have securitised gas bills. I think that finance one problem, especially in rural and island areas such as will be readily available, which will be an important part mine, is that in practice, local businesses are often of making the green deal work. unable to tender for the work because of the big contracts that are put together. People in the locality are cut out and left without the work while people come in from Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): I outside and take it up. welcome the Bill—it is a superb idea, and I applaud the Government for bringing it forward so quickly. May I press the Secretary of State on consumer protection? As Chris Huhne: As I have already said, the Government with any new initiative that a tremendous number of are committed to trying to make the benefits of the people want to take up, some providers will inevitably green deal available to small businesses, which obviously promise the earth and not deliver. What protection will includes those in remote islands and rural communities. there be for consumers, particularly those in fuel poverty We have consulted widely on that with both of the devolved to whom much is promised but little is delivered, to Administrations, including the Scottish Government. ensure that they get the insulation and the reduction in We have a very substantial measure of consensus with their fuel costs that they are expecting? the Scottish Government, but if issues need to be addressed in Committee, we will happily address them. I am terribly keen to ensure that the Bill works throughout Chris Huhne: I absolutely sympathise with the hon. the UK, because the homes that need insulating exist Lady’s question—I spent a number of years on the throughout the UK. Some of the greatest beneficiaries board of the Consumers Association, and I am a firm will be communities that are off the mains gas grid. believer in the need for good consumer protection. Homes in such communities are often quite hard to There are several layers of protection, and the first line treat, and the Bill will be of enormous benefit to them. of defence for the consumer is competition. The inability of householders to get an assessment and an alternative Under the green deal, households could save up to quote—such competition keeps suppliers lean and mean—is £400 a year once the measures have been paid off. That perhaps what went wrong with the Warm Front scheme. will flow through to spending power, boosting living standards for all, yet many people have never even In addition, we will have all of the usual protections. considered making their homes more efficient—they do I mentioned the Consumer Credit Act 2006 in respect not know what better energy efficiency could do for of finance, but there is also the accreditation scheme for them. New green deal assessments will set out clearly assessors, so we will know that assessors are properly and consistently just how homes and businesses can trained to assess what people need in their homes to save energy. The green deal is a new way of doing energy meet that golden rule. We will have properly qualified efficiency. installers, so avoiding the problems that occurred, for example, in Australia, where untrained people crawled through people’s lofts, banging nails into wires and Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Will the Secretary setting fire to homes. The whole Australian energy of State give way? efficiency industry was given a bad name for many years because of that, but we are avoiding those problems. Chris Huhne: Let me make a bit more progress, but I The hon. Lady will see in Committee that we have will give way again later. delivered a lot on consumer protection. There will be no more picking off the easy bits, with a little insulation here and a low-energy light bulb there; Mr Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton) no more relying on regulation alone to change behaviour; (Lab): The Secretary of State has concentrated on the and no more top-down schemes imposed using public benefits of the Bill, which of course depend on whether money. Instead, we are creating a new dynamic market there is high take-up, which in turn depends on the in energy efficiency, shifting from small-scale improvements interest rates on loans under the green deal. Will he give to deep retrofits on a national scale. This dynamic 1061 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1062 market will bring jobs across the length and breadth of with Warm Front. There has to be a clean break with the country, and real growth, reaching into the most the past. This has to be a better way of doing business deprived areas, with no regional bias. and giving us all a green deal for the future. I am looking forward to that particular piece of the Bill. James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): On that point about the added benefit of the scheme to Chris Huhne: The hon. Lady is right. Many of us regional economies, can the Secretary of State estimate have been visited in surgery by constituents saying that the number of the quality jobs that will be created in they were quoted under Warm Front for an improvement, areas such as the west midlands and the black country, but oddly the entire subsidy was taken up by the provider, a part of which I represent? rather than going to the constituent. The point of Chris Huhne: That will depend on the take-up in introducing this competitive provision is to ensure that different areas, but we estimate that nationally—there is the subsidy goes where it is meant to, instead of disappearing no reason for any geographic or regional disparity; the into the pockets of some large business. numbers should be the same across the country—that The Bill will also introduce a new energy company the number of people employed in insulation alone obligation to replace the carbon emissions reduction could soar from 27,000 to 100,000 by 2015. The potential target and the community energy savings programme, benefits are huge, with opportunities for skilled and which have not unlocked carbon savings fast enough. unskilled labour alike up and down the supply chain. The new obligation will be more ambitious. Energy The green deal will save energy and help us to hit our companies will be expected to pay to support hard-to-treat carbon emissions targets. It will also give us a chance to properties such as those with solid walls, where insulation get people thinking about how they can reduce their costs can be higher and the payback period longer than own energy consumption. Millions of homes and businesses with the typical home. ECO payments from energy could benefit from the green deal, but as with any new companies will be bundled with green deal finance and product, building consumer trust will be critical to delivered together to ensure that the green deal is available success. We want people to know that the green deal is to all. The scheme will also help the most vulnerable not just a smart choice, but a safe choice, which is why people—those in the coldest homes—to get the heating the Bill also ensures that consumers will be protected. improvements that they need to keep warm and stay The green deal will be delivered by partnerships across healthy. Cold homes cost lives. By targeting support the country. more closely, we can reach more people more effectively. Jim Shannon: For a minute I thought that as a Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): I wonder whether this Democratic Unionist Member I was not going to be Energy Bill might be the right place for the Government allowed to speak in a green debate. When I was a to instruct the regulators to say that companies should Northern Ireland Assembly Member, I was involved in no longer charge so much for the first units of electricity discussions on these measures, so it is appropriate that I used—or whatever power it is—but instead swing that have the opportunity to speak today. At the time, we round to the point where there is better use of power. proposed a clause on guaranteed performance standards That will help the vulnerable and those in fuel poverty, that made it clear that if providers did not live up to because the whole thing has tipped the wrong way. their promises, they would be accountable for losses and monetary penalties could ensue. Does the Secretary Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend makes a good point. of State intend to enshrine that principle in the Bill, so There are many difficulties in the energy market of the that what the Assembly proposed will be applicable kind that she describes—for example, with prepayment across the United Kingdom? It would ensure good meters, which often make things more expensive. That customer service and enhance security and protection. is precisely why we introduced the Warm Homes discount, which provides people in vulnerable households with Chris Huhne: The short answer is that there is a limit extra support, and why the green deal is so important. to what we can guarantee—the hon. Gentleman used We are not just using a sticking plaster—which is what the word “guarantee”—for reasons that will become we do when we subsidise people—but dealing with the obvious: if someone were suddenly to marry a Brazilian root cause of the problem. One of the key points is that and wanted to keep their temperatures 3° or 4° higher in people in fuel poverty and those at the bottom end of the winter, I could not guarantee that their energy bills the income distribution have an enormous range of would be lower. We have to be cautious, therefore, but if energy use. Their use can vary by a factor of six merely there is no behavioural change, we would expect energy depending on the kind of property they happen to be savings. in. If they are lucky enough to have a social landlord We will ensure that high-quality, standardised advice who has recently renovated the property to the decent is given so that each customer can see clearly where and homes standard, their energy bill can be low; if they are how the green deal will work for them, and that those in the private rented sector, it can be six times as high. installing green deal measures must meet robust standards. We will guard against mis-selling, and ensure that the Tessa Munt rose— right information is on hand at the point of sale. Competition will keep suppliers keen: if a customer Chris Huhne: If I may, I am going to make some does not like the quote from one green deal provider, progress. they will be able to get another. We will focus our resources on where they can do the Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con): This is a most good. That means finding practical solutions to key test that will give legs to the Bill. Some of my identify households that need the most support. We are constituents have contacted me about their troubles determined to get to grips with the causes of fuel 1063 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1064

[Chris Huhne] his Department had talks with the Department for Work and Pensions to see whether the withdrawal of poverty, not just the symptoms, but the tools at our housing benefit could become another weapon in his disposal are not up to the job. That is why I have asked Department’s armoury? Professor John Hills to conduct an independent review of the fuel poverty target and definition, so that we can Chris Huhne: We have discussed this with the DWP, understand the problem and what we can do to fix it, and that would certainly be one route down which we and also be held to account as a Government for the could go. There would be dangers in doing so, however, progress that we make. The review will produce an not least because some of those on housing benefit find interim report in the autumn and a final report early in it hard to get into privately rented property. The simpler 2012. route that I have suggested will have a clear and predictable For too long, a sizeable minority of tenants has effect and will touch more than 680,000 homes in the suffered from higher bills and colder homes. Privately private rented sector that are currently rated F and G. rented houses are more likely to have the lowest energy This is a substantial move. efficiency rating than those that are owned outright. Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): The Caroline Lucas: I thank the Secretary of State for Government are clearly announcing significant changes giving way again. Are not tenants unlikely to challenge to improve energy efficiency in the private rented sector. their landlords on the introduction of the green deal Will the Secretary of State expand on what he would because of a fear of retaliatory eviction? Would it not consider to be reasonable, in the context of his saying be much more effective to introduce minimum energy that any reasonable request from a tenant would not be efficiency standards that landlords have to keep to if refused? Also, why has 2018 been chosen, rather than they want to put their buildings on the market? 2016 as many outside groups have been calling for?

Chris Huhne: The hon. Lady anticipates a point that I Chris Huhne: The clear idea here is to give a point at will turn to very soon. which we know people are going to be able to aim. It is Landlords do not want to invest because tenants not reasonable to introduce changes very rapidly when, benefit; tenants do not want to invest because they will for example, there might not be voids in property renting. move on. By linking the green deal measures to the We do not want to impose unnecessary costs, and it is property, not the tenant, the Bill bridges that divide. therefore appropriate to set a date. Let us remember With the green deal, everybody wins. Landlords will that the scheme does not begin until October 2012, and face no up-front costs; tenants will keep warm for less. we want to set a date by which the private rental sector I welcome many of the positive responses that we can deliver. have had from landlords to the prospect of the green deal. However, some individuals and organisations feel Andrew George: Before he took those last two that we are not committed to securing improvements to interventions, my right hon. Friend had just reached the the least energy-efficient properties in the private rented point about the memorandum of understanding between sector. Many tenants suffer appalling conditions without his Department and the Local Government Group. The the power to agree improvements with their landlords. Bill does not at present include any powers for local The debate has been lively, and we have listened. That is authorities, and some of us are concerned that if it is why I am pleased to announce that we will change the simply left to the private sector to generate the scheme, current provisions to make it clear that we will regulate. it might not be sufficiently targeted at the communities This is significant step and a marker of our intent. that need it the most. Should we not give a duty, or at From 2016, any tenant or their representatives asking least a power, to local authorities in this regard? Does for their landlord’s consent to make reasonable energy the Local Government Group sign up to that kind of efficiency improvements cannot be refused. From 2018, joint arrangement with the Government? the rental of the very worst performing properties—those rated F and G—will be banned through a minimum Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend needs to recognise that energy efficiency standard. We will of course seek to a substantial number of councils are very enthusiastic work with landlords well in advance to support their about the scheme, because of the benefits that it can take-up of the green deal. The precise form of these bring in regard not only to energy saving but to local regulations will be subject to the usual scrutiny processes. jobs. I personally think that we are going to see go-ahead We also remain committed to ensuring that all councils councils trumpeting the work that they do in this area. play a role in delivering the green deal. The recent They already have substantial powers to monitor and to memorandum of understanding between DECC and ensure that this will happen. the Local Government Group recognises the enthusiasm Alongside the green deal provisions, the Bill also that councils have for delivering the green deal. contains measures to enhance energy security. They include legislative changes to reduce the likelihood, Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North) (Lab): I have a duration and extent of gas supply disruption, and to question about the private rented sector, and I ask it in a protect consumers from very high wholesale prices. spirit of non-partisanship because I know that the These new powers would sharpen the commercial incentives Secretary of State likes that kind of thing. I welcome for energy companies to meet their contractual supply what he has said about putting some pressure on landlords obligation during a gas supply emergency. The Bill also but, given that the public sector will in effect be paying introduces a special administration regime for gas and the rents of some of these energy-efficient dwellings, electricity suppliers, which will help to maintain market through housing benefit and housing allowances, has stability and protect consumers. 1065 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1066

Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): The right hon. Gentleman of State managed to make it to the House this afternoon is rapidly going through energy security measures, but to speak to his own legislation. The power of Twitter clause 100 provides a power to change the boundaries knows no end! of the continental shelf. According to Library research It is important to outline where the Opposition stand papers, the aim is to provide flexibility in managing the on the vital issues facing the Department of Energy and UK continental shelf resources. Will the Secretary of Climate Change and the Government. We would all State give us more information about which parts of the agree that there is no greater threat facing the planet UKCS he envisages changing, what resources are involved than global warming. In the 19 years since the Earth and what consultations have taken place with the devolved summit in Rio de Janeiro, when climate change was Administrations? firmly put on the agenda, the issue has moved from the fringes to the centre stage. Even during the 13-year Chris Huhne: We have indeed had consultations with period of the last Labour Government, for whom I had the devolved Administrations on all aspects of the Bill. the privilege to serve, the issue became more urgent and One objective of this part of it is to ensure that the pressing. That is why Labour not only introduced tough smaller and more difficult to get at fields, which have targets to reduce our emissions of the gases that cause potentially higher costs, are nevertheless attractive and global warming, but enshrined them in law. can be handed on to companies who will exploit them This coalition Government cannot be accused of to the full. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will see from ignoring climate change. The Prime Minister himself the Public Bill Committee that that is what we are trying put the environment at the top of the Tory agenda when to achieve. he took his husky ride to the Norwegian glacier. At the Mr MacNeil rose— time, there were sceptics—including the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change—who dismissed Chris Huhne: I must make progress. that as merely a public relations stunt. We could doubt the Prime Minister’s commitment; after all, he has The regime will ensure that if a large supplier becomes uttered hardly a word on the matter since. Why else, insolvent, customers will be supplied with gas and though, would one install a wind turbine on the roof electricity as cost effectively as possible until the company unless one were committed? is rescued, sold, or its customers are transferred to other suppliers. As the Secretary of State has said, the Energy Bill provides a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to catalyse The Bill also includes an updated regime for third-party Britain’s journey from a high-carbon to a low-carbon access to oil and gas infrastructure. Timely access to economy, to change customer behaviour for ever, to infrastructure on fair terms will be increasingly critical lead the world in reducing carbon emissions and to be a over the next decade. The discoveries now being made bright beacon to our partners in Europe, America and in the North sea are typically smaller than those in the the Commonwealth. So the coalition Government have past and need to make use of existing infrastructure set out their stall, claiming to be “the greenest Government where possible. The measures in the Bill will help us to ever”, and what have they come up with? After months secure the full economic benefits of our North sea oil of bravado, bragging and boasts from the Energy Secretary and gas resources. and his ministerial team, we have a Bill that adds new The Bill brings energy efficiency to homes and businesses meaning to the word “disappointment”. It is a flaccid across the country. It boosts the security of our energy lettuce leaf of a Bill, laden with missed opportunities supply, protects consumers and supports green technology. and ducked decisions. If the school playgrounds of In setting up the green deal, it places us at the very Britain have indeed adopted a new phrase, “doing a forefront of the low-carbon drive—with an innovative, Clegg”—which, for the benefit of Liberal Democrat dynamic market delivering energy efficiency at scale, Members, means saying one thing and doing another—the with no extra cost to the public purse. lexicon will soon contain another new phrase, “doing a Huhne”. That will mean “talking big”, for 45 minutes in Mr MacNeil rose— this instance, “but delivering little”.

Chris Huhne: I have come to my peroration and I Andrea Leadsom: I am very disappointed by what the have given way many times. I would like to continue. hon. Lady is saying, on behalf of many of my constituents. Together with our reform of the electricity market, A couple of months ago I was at a fish-and-chips which will open up our energy portfolio and deliver the supper with some retired people, and one elderly lady next generation of low-carbon electricity, the Bill represents was literally in tears, saying that given her very limited a signal step towards a cleaner, greener future for the resources she did not know how she would manage to UK. In the scale of its ambition, this Bill is a statement keep warm in the winter and eat as well. I find it pretty of intent. It will help cut our carbon emissions, reduce shocking that an initiative that is making a bold effort our dependence on imported energy and protect the most to remedy that situation should meet with such complete vulnerable in society. This is our flagship policy on disregard from the Opposition. energy saving. This legislation provides for it, and this Meg Hillier: The hon. Lady may be jumping to Government will deliver it. I commend the Bill to the conclusions. It is this Government who are removing House. the Warm Front scheme, and it is this Bill that is failing to deliver for the fuel poor. I shall say more about that 5.32 pm shortly. Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ In his 45-minute peroration, the Secretary of State Co-op): I was starting to think that my moment might promised 100,000 jobs. He promised that the poorest not come this afternoon. I am delighted that the Secretary would be saved from the cold, and that the market 1067 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1068

[Meg Hillier] by 2050; there is cross-party agreement on that. However, during the Bill’s passage in the other place Ministers would protect the consumer and many others. However, were offered opportunity after opportunity to make he did not give us the details of some important matters. their proposals clearer, to introduce proper measures of We have a Secretary of State who has been rolled over accountability such as an annual report, and to safeguard by the Tory Chancellor—and, we have learned in recent consumers, but they rejected those offers of help, and hours in days, by his own party colleagues, particularly we have not heard any further detail throughout the the Business Secretary—on every important issue in his entire 45 minutes of the Secretary of State’s speech Department. We have also learned today that the ECO today. may be within the levy cap, but not yet. We have a Other Members may have longer memories, but I do Liberal Democrat sheep in a wolfish Government: a not believe that this House has ever been asked to vote Government who want to be green-tinged, but who are on the Second Reading of a Bill in which so much of under-delivering on their grand promises. the detail is unclear or not worked out. We are being asked to buy a massive pig in a poke, and that is simply David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): When the not good enough. At the very least, the Secretary of last Government left office, one half of 1% of the UK’s State should concede the need for evidence sessions for total energy production was delivered by renewables. Is the Bill, so we can shed some light on its murkier that under-delivery or not? aspects, but he has refused to do so. As a result, Members will not have a single opportunity to discuss the Bill Meg Hillier: The Opposition seem to misunderstand— outside Committee. Today, the longer the Secretary of [HON.MEMBERS: “You are the Opposition!”] They are State’s answers were, the less we learned. [Interruption.] the Opposition to me. They seem to misunderstand the No, those are my words. position. There is cross-party agreement on the need for The key question this afternoon is whether the more renewables and a lower-carbon economy, but we Government’s proposals meet the challenge. Sadly, my believe that the Bill could do more to deliver that. What confirmed conviction is that they do not. disappoints us is that a Bill that promised so much is delivering so little. We hope that in Committee we shall see some movement from the Government. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): The hon. Lady seems to turn disappointment into an art form. Is At the heart of the Bill is the green deal, which the she not aware that many people are very disappointed Secretary of State spent much of his speech telling us that under the Government with whom she served fuel about. The task is obvious. We all agree that Britain prices and the number of people in fuel poverty went needs to insulate its homes and buildings. It needs to up, and she did nothing about it? improve energy efficiency in millions of households. Given rising energy bills and the need to hit our carbon reduction targets, that work must be done, as Labour’s Meg Hillier: I am sure the Secretary of State would manifesto made clear at the last general election. be delighted if he had the power to control fuel prices, but now may not be the time for a lesson on the global Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): If the hon. oil economy. Lady wishes to improve energy security and insulation in homes and to reduce carbon, I do not understand Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): What why she does not recognise that the Bill is a game-changer. impact does my hon. Friend think a VAT rise has on I recall another game-changing piece of legislation, the fuel prices, and what impact does that have on elderly Clean Air Act 1956. That was the first in the world; this people? is the first in the world. That attracted— Meg Hillier: I agree with my hon. Friend’s point. This Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I Government cannot lecture us, given the impact of think that the hon. Lady has made her point. their policies on the budgets of households throughout the country, leaving them nowhere to go when oil prices Meg Hillier: First does not always mean best. We increase. want the Bill to succeed in its aims, but if the hon. Lady In answer to a question from the hon. Member for looks at the detail of the Bill and reads the report of Harlow (Robert Halfon), the Secretary of State said proceedings in the other place, she will observe the every home would benefit from the green deal—he glaring gaps that I will shortly highlight. As I have said, clearly has no shortage of ambition in this area—but the task is obvious and the challenge is great. the Department for Communities and Local Government predicts that there will be more than 27 million households Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): For the record, can in England by 2033, so how can the green deal possibly the shadow Secretary of State tell us whether the level hit that target? The Secretary of State talks about of fuel poverty went up or down under the last Labour companies being keen to get involved, but we know that Government, for whom she, of course, served? most have already stepped back, so unsure are they of what the Bill will deliver. Meg Hillier: The point is that this Government are If the Secretary of State is so confident about his removing Warm Front, and there will be nothing for the proposals, why has he refused to set a target for the number fuel poor; this Bill will not deliver for them. of homes that would benefit? He gave us a waffly The challenge is great. As the Secretary of State said, answer earlier, but at a public event he said he had 27% of all UK emissions come from our homes. All wanted to call this Bill the Energy Saving Bill but was Members are committed to an 80% reduction in emissions told that the parliamentary Clerks would not allow it. 1069 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1070

I am sure that all Members are far less concerned for tackling fuel poverty with the energy companies. about the title of the Bill than about what it achieves, Those households, who have the most to gain from and there are a number of obstacles to achieving the decent insulation and lower bills—I do not doubt that Secretary of State’s aims. First, we have no details about Members across the House are committed to solving the interest rates at which the green deal cash will be this problem—should be the Government’s first priority, loaned. Evidence suggests that an 8% rate will deter but instead they have been left until last. many households. Although there were rumours that Finally, I come to an important question on which we incentives would be provided in the Budget, none were have not been given enough detail: what about consumer announced, yet without any tangible incentives most rights? If the work under the green deal is botched, how householders just will not bother. A loan of about can consumers get redress? If the projected savings do £6,000 will barely scratch the surface of paying for what not add up to the value of the loan over 20 years, who will need to be done to make most homes as green as will pay the shortfall? What guarantees can Ministers they will need to be to meet our targets. The Minister of offer consumers that they will not be saddled with State, the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory debts, especially when they buy a house with a green Barker), has now suggested that loans could be as much deal loan already in place? as £10,000, which I hope is a sign that the Government The Secretary of State talks with passion about stopping finally recognise that there are inadequacies in the Bill, cowboys getting in on the deal, but his Government but that higher sum will be more off-putting to the have abolished Consumer Focus, the watchdog that has poorest households whose homes are often the most successfully taken up consumer issues with the energy expensive to improve. companies. No detail on consumer redress is available On the golden rule, I was interested to hear the to us as we debate this Bill on Second Reading. People Secretary of State’s version of things—perhaps this is a are rightly asking these questions and even where Ministers new addition to the Bill—which was that “money today are coming up with answers those answers are not very is worth more than money tomorrow”. That shows a reassuring. We simply need more detail. We are expecting level of financial literacy that clearly bodes well for the about 50 pieces of secondary legislation after the House Bill. We also face the question of whether the banks will has made its decision on the Bill tonight, on Report and be interested, and the only banker that he could cite is a on Third Reading. former Tory special adviser—he would be in favour, wouldn’t he? We need the banks to be on board if the Stephen Gilbert: The hon. Lady seems to be “doing a Government’s model is to work. Hillier”, snatching embarrassment from the jaws of Secondly, this Bill contains no assurances about who defeat. We have heard real detail from the Secretary of will conduct all the assessments and repairs. Who will State today on minimum energy efficiency standards for accredit the legion of assessors—the 100,000 people the private rented sector. Is it not a bit churlish of her that the Secretary of State talks about? Where will this not to welcome the detail that we have heard on the army of assessors come from? We all know that the private rented sector, which has been called for by many Government are doing their best to create a vast pool of external organisations? newly unemployed nurses, RAF pilots and other skilled workers who need a new job, but even at the rate that Meg Hillier: That tells us all we need to know about this Government are destroying our services and putting the relationships in the coalition. If the hon. Gentleman, manufacturing firms out of business, there will not be a Liberal Democrat, believes that what we heard from enough skilled people to do the job on the scale required. the Secretary of State today is detail, he perhaps needs to look again at the Bill. The detail is missing. The The Secretary of State has been asked today, as Secretary of State is keen to talk about the Bill with Ministers in the other place have been, which measures passion but he is not giving the answers. We are waiting could be put into a home under the green deal. Again, for detail on the 50 pieces of secondary legislation, but we have heard lots of words—for example, when he we have seen none at all. I lay this marker down for the talked about double glazing—but he simply does not Secretary of State that in Committee we will seek know the answer, and neither do suppliers, householders further detail on many of these important issues and and landlords. Hard-to-treat remote and rural homes others— that are off-grid provide particularly big challenges, but the green deal, as it stands, does not step up to deliver The Minister of State, Department of Energy and on them. When the Secretary of State talks about Climate Change (Gregory Barker): As usual. success that will be determined by word of mouth, we know he has a great plan that will certainly deliver the Meg Hillier: The Minister of State says from a sedentary results he sets out. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] Clearly position that that is unusual in Committee— Members on the Government Benches do not understand irony. Gregory Barker: It’sirony,love. Thirdly, and most shamefully, the Bill—[Interruption.] I think that those on the Government Benches ought to Meg Hillier: I’m not your love, matey, and I suspect listen to the detail. I say that for those who have perhaps someone else might find that surprising, too. not followed it as closely as some of us. Thirdly, and It is important that we get the detail in Committee most shamefully, the green deal fails the basic test of and I make that point for a good reason. The Government fairness, as the poorest households will get the least have form on not giving answers in Committee. The Bill help. The constituents of mine who, like some of your has been in the other place and so we might have constituents, Mr Deputy Speaker, and those of other expected it to be better. We gave it a fair wind and we hon. Members, shiver under blankets every winter will would still like to see it succeed, but we need more detail not be reassured by the coalition placing the responsibility before it can do that. 1071 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1072

[Meg Hillier] Meg Hillier: I think the hon. Gentleman wants to know whether he can get home early for tea tonight. There is a yawning gap between Ministers’ rhetoric Let me reiterate: we set out that we wanted to give the and their actions and it grows day by day. In public, Bill a fair wind, and I personally made that clear to the Ministers talk about being the greenest Government Secretary of State. It builds on ideas and work that were ever, so why have they called the Climate Change Act 2008 carried out by the previous Government and it needs to “red tape” and placed it in a review of what they call work to deliver the emissions reductions that we need in “burdens on business”? Ministers might huff and puff this country to meet our targets. It is light on detail, and say that the Act is safe in their hands, and I do not however. doubt the commitment of the DECC team, but why then is it in the red tape review? Perhaps they need to John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I talk to other members of their Government. think the tenor of the argument in the House is that the Why have Ministers ended the commitment to zero- whole House wants to see the Bill succeed, but there is carbon homes? That fact caused the WWF to resign its an issue with the delegated legislation and with its place on the working group as the decision was so out range. May I suggest that those on the two Front of the blue. Why will the green investment bank not be Benches meet at some stage to discuss how that can be up and running for two more years? Allegedly, the dealt with so that we can have a constructive debate as money to fund it is coming from Britain’s stake in a well as holding the Government to account? We all uranium enrichment company, URENCO, which the want the Bill to succeed. Financial Times suggests is in doubt. There is an elephant in the room and we all know Meg Hillier: I am in discussions with those on the what it is. The Energy Secretary has had his eyes on a Government Front Bench. When I asked to see draft prize other than reducing carbon emissions. I know that secondary legislation so that we could be comforted he has had to pull himself away from the detail of the that it would deliver the securities we have been asking Bill in recent days to attack his coalition partners by for if the Bill was passed, I was told in a letter from the article, letter and leak, and it is a shame that he has had Secretary of State that that would not be possible until to do so because—to give him credit—it might be a the primary legislation had been passed. I live in hope better Bill if he had applied himself to it. We also know that the Secretary of State—he is a man who believes in that the demands of the alternative vote campaign have, this issue; I do not doubt his commitment—and I can for some reason or another, taken up much of his time continue to have a dialogue. when he might have been meeting with green groups, consumer groups or businesses that would have told John McDonnell: Even if the delegated legislation him what a mess the Bill was and how to improve it. comes after the Bill is passed, may I suggest that there is There is still no excuse, when he is backed up by the a discussion about evidence sessions on it and some gold-standard civil service of this country, to come to form of progress report on the Floor of the House so the House with this dog’s breakfast of a Bill. It is weak that there can be a wider ranging debate? on specifics, clouded in uncertainty and built on such shaky foundations that few can have confidence in its Meg Hillier: My hon. Friend makes an excellent standing up to scrutiny. We want the Bill to succeed, but suggestion, which I have also made to the Secretary of we have no detail and no plan from the Government State. I am sure that with the support of the House the about how it will be implemented. Secretary of State will see the good sense in that suggestion and I hope he will talk to officials about how they can Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) ensure that we facilitate it. (Lab): I agree with my hon. Friend that there is still Overall, climate change is too important to leave to much to do before the Government can claim to be the the market, and that is one of the problems with the greenest ever. There are also significant gaps in the Bill. Bill. The market and the market alone will decide. We One example from my constituency concerns a community need a strong Government to lead the fight against hydro project in Saddleworth that might not go ahead global warming and fuel poverty, but I fear that instead because of the anomaly in the current legislation, which we have a Government who are at war with themselves. is not addressed by the Bill, that prevents it from securing the higher feed-in tariff rates. Surely that is something we should be encouraging. 5.57 pm Mr Tim Yeo (South Suffolk) (Con): I begin by drawing Meg Hillier: That is another example of the attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Government’s dither and delay in making decisions that Financial Interests. can have perverse effects on the ground. I would very much like to find something nice to say about the speech that has just been delivered by the Andrew George: If the hon. Lady does not mind, I hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg will sidestep the disappointingly partisan nature in which Hillier). I listened carefully for 25 minutes and I could she has engaged in the debate. I am genuinely confused. not really say that it made any serious contribution at She appears to endorse the principles behind the Bill all to the debate. It was extraordinarily churlish in tone and, quite understandably, is expressing some anxieties and very ill-judged. If ever there was an issue that cried about the details. That is certainly a matter for debate in out for a bipartisan, long-term and constructive approach, Committee. Will she urge her colleagues to vote for or it is energy policy and climate change. That was wholly against Second Reading? lacking from every sentence of the hon. Lady’s speech. 1073 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1074

I warmly welcome the Bill, which is a big—and Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): Would my overdue—step in the right direction. I agree that some hon. Friend agree with a very simple suggestion that details remain to be filled in, but no doubt they will be was put to me by a constituent about smart meters—that addressed in Committee. I want to comment briefly on we need the information to be understandable to the four aspects of energy policy that relate to the Bill. The average consumer who is not an energy expert? If the first, of course, is energy efficiency. The Bill is especially meter told the consumer how much energy had been welcome because of its intense focus on energy efficiency, consumed and its cost, that would mean a lot more than which has always been the Cinderella of energy policy. I complicated numbers and figures that one cannot have always found that to be extraordinary—it is truly understand if one is not an expert. the no regrets policy. Even people who do not accept that climate change is a threat to the conditions of Mr Yeo: The test of smart meters will be how user- climate stability that have prevailed in the very recent friendly they are at giving people information that is history of our planet, thereby allowing one of the most relevant to their decisions in a manner that they can recently arrived species, human beings, to proliferate in easily understand. That includes older people who might number and enjoy phenomenal and unprecedented success, not have as much facility for modern information and who see no advantage, either environmental or technology communications. economic, in moving to a low-carbon economy can see the merits of greater energy efficiency, which has economic On security, I welcome the duty placed on Ofgem to as well as environmental advantages. Those economic report on the adequacy of future capacity. Demand for advantages accrue to households, rich and poor alike, electricity will rise substantially not just because of and to businesses. economic growth but because several of the measures designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions involve The green deal, which is the centrepiece of the Bill, is the greater use of electricity—for example, for transport an excellent concept, even if there remain some areas of and heat. We shall need a lot more generating capacity its implementation that we would like to know more and the lead times for new capacity are such that about. The principle that energy efficiency measures decisions taken in this Parliament are absolutely crucial. can be financed through savings on fuel bills is a good A further dash for gas might be the quickest and one that is attractive to consumers. In practice, however, cheapest way to expand capacity, but it would mean although most of the energy efficiency measures needed becoming even more dependent on gas imports, threatening have a large and fast enough payback to ensure that the a different aspect of security of supply. Even in a world golden rule to which the Secretary of State referred—that in which gas can be imported from a large number of instalment payments for the improvements will not countries and in which we have the possibility of perhaps exceed the cost of the savings made—there will be some abundant supplies of shale gas from Poland and the measures that probably do not come into that category. United States, I do not think that anyone would be I hope therefore that the Government will recognise—not comfortable with our relying more on imports. necessarily in the context of the Bill, but soon—that some further incentive might be needed to improve all Furthermore, unabated gas emissions are so much the housing stock in this country. I urge Ministers, as I higher than the target for emissions that the Committee have before, to explore more fully how discounts on on Climate Change quite rightly set for 2030 of 50 grams council tax could be used to encourage faster progress per kWh that a dash for gas could lead to expensive to a comprehensive energy efficiency process. Those stranded assets in the 2020s unless we achieve carbon discounts could even be introduced on a revenue-neutral capture and storage, which is by no means a certainty. basis. Yesterday, in its excellent review of renewables the committee reminded us, as it helpfully and regularly does, that Chris Huhne: Powers for councils to do that are nearly all new generating capacity must now be low-carbon. already on the statute book. A number of councils have After all, electric cars and electrically heated houses are introduced incentives through council tax, which have not going to cut greenhouse gas emissions if the extra been very effective. We do not need new powers to do electricity is generated by coal. The committee’s review that, and I think that a lot of the most go-ahead is welcome as a common-sense judgment on renewables. councils will do it. It reaches the unavoidable conclusion that even with an enormous increase in offshore wind and solar power Mr Yeo: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for there remains an absolutely essential role for nuclear. that point. I hope that means he will encourage the use We therefore need from the Government today, and of those powers in areas in which a significant number regularly in future, an assurance that as soon as any of households are not able to use the green deal measures safety issues raised by Professor Weightman have been as a sufficient mechanism and incentive to get the addressed, every possible assistance will be given to improvements that are needed. The same approach ensure that new nuclear capacity comes on stream as could be adopted for business premises by giving discounts soon as possible. on business rates. In the context of how more low-carbon electricity Smart meters might also help. Helping consumers to can be produced, a more explicit acknowledgment is understand the costs of energy and how they can better needed of the risks of blithely assuming that carbon manage their energy consumption could be very valuable, capture and storage will work viably at scale. With the but I hope that the Government will take a close interest abundant availability of coal in many countries, lots of in the roll-out of smart meters. There is a risk that the coal is going to be burned in the next few decades. It is whole initiative might turn sour if the meters do not get beyond doubt that the single technological breakthrough off to a good start, if mistakes are made or if consumers that the world most urgently needs is carbon capture become suspicious that they are going to benefit suppliers and storage. There is huge potential for it, but I have not more than consumers. been encouraged by the fact that when the UK Government 1075 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1076

[Mr Yeo] making a strong plea to the Government to accept the Committee on Climate Change’s recommendations. The offered £1 billion in a competition, there was only one Government’s credentials as the greenest Government bidder at the end of the process. I therefore urge that ever will be enormously strengthened if the carbon more attention be given to issues such as waste-to-energy, budget put forward by the committee last December for which could provide a renewable source as some the 2023-27 period is accepted. A budget for a period unrecyclable waste will be always be produced by a more than a decade away might seem a remote concept, growing economy. but carbon budgets are much less susceptible to last-minute tinkering that financial ones. Carbon emissions in the Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): Will middle of the 2020s will be affected by decisions about my hon. Friend give way? new electricity generation capacity taken during this Parliament. Mr Yeo: I am running out of time, I am afraid, and I Our accepting the committee’s fourth budget will think I get only two goes at giving way. I am sorry. show that Britain wants to lead the way to a low-carbon It is clear that whatever the precise mix of our portfolio world. I understand the anxieties about our competitive of electricity generation, the cost of secure, low-carbon position, but I believe that those risks are relatively electricity will be higher in future—possibly much higher— small and are confined to the short and medium term. although the Government have rightly pointed out that If the world really means to decarbonise by 2050, and I reliance on fossil fuels might turn out to be even more believe that it does, the countries that lead the way will costly by 2030. Last week, in an evidence session held not only be doing the right thing environmentally, but by my Select Committee on Energy and Climate Change, will reap a huge financial reward. I asked Ministers what the Treasury’s assumptions about Let us look east at what China is doing in making oil prices would mean if they were translated to gas huge strides towards a more sustainable, low carbon prices, and they were a bit reluctant to explain what transport infrastructure and energy system. In the they thought gas prices might reach. Clearly, fuel poverty international climate change negotiations in the 2020s it is going to be a key challenge in the next few years and might be China that takes the hawkish stance on greenhouse the solution is not to divert investment into cheaper but gas emissions and the measures needed to reduce them, higher-carbon power stations, but to ensure that household and it will do so from a position of greater strength incomes are sufficient to meet unavoidable increases in than many countries in the west. It would be tragic if fuel bills. Britain, one of the first places where the science of Equally important is the need for more low-carbon climate change was properly understood, were not in capacity. Tinkering with UK or European Union targets the vanguard of the world’s response. I urge the Prime for the exact proportion of energy to be achieved from Minister to overrule the reported resistance of the Secretary renewable sources by this date or that date is of little of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on this relevance. The only real question is how Britain, in an point, and I commend the Bill to the House. increasingly energy-hungry world in which China and the other BRIC countries—Brazil, Russia, India—will 6.10 pm be consuming huge amounts of energy, can attract the funds needed to finance massive new capacity in all Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): I shall kinds of low-carbon electricity. The Intergovernmental start exactly where the hon. Member for South Suffolk Panel on Climate Change has reported today that (Mr Yeo), who so ably chairs the Energy and Climate £15 trillion will be needed in the next two decades to Change Committee, just finished. The whole debate on develop renewable energy. To attract our share, we must the Bill is underpinned by the Climate Change Act 2008. make sure that returns on investment in electricity Reference was made earlier to new legislation. It was generation in Britain are high enough and reliable enough. the previous Government who passed that Act. I urge Ministers to recognise that every policy change I agree that the fourth carbon budget is critical. I do runs the risk of raising the cost of capital because each not know whether I believe reports in The Guardian,but switch increases uncertainty in the minds of investors. if the Government are to have any chance of being the Individual decisions such as the revision of feed-in greenest Government ever—there is some doubt and tariffs for large-scale solar projects are understandable dispute about that—the Cabinet must accept in full the and perhaps unavoidable, but their impact on investors recommendation from an independent body that was is harmful and will prove to be expensive in the long set up for that purpose. When the statutory instrument term. It is vital that the electricity market reform package comes before the House in June or whenever it comes, promotes stability in the framework of incentives that that must be agreed, or much of the debate on the Bill are designed to promote low-carbon electricity. I urge today will be irrelevant. So I hope the right Cabinet Ministers to recognise in all policy statements the danger decision will come out next week or whenever it is that investment in new capacity in this country is not an made. entitlement. We live in a genuinely global economy. It is crucial that the Bill succeeds, but it is very short Investors can easily migrate to places where returns are on detail. Given the comments of my hon. Friend the more secure, where planning delays are shorter and Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), where policy is predictable. proper parliamentary scrutiny is needed and there can There is a lot more in the Bill, not least the green be a role for Select Committees to examine the cross-cutting investment bank. The bank’s contribution to funding aspects of the Bill, particularly in relation to the issues some of the investment needed could be considerable if that have been mentioned, including the role of the the Treasury allows it. In view of the imminent decision Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. That about the fourth carbon budget, I want to close by should be borne in mind when we get to the Committee 1077 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1078 stage. We have seen what happened to amendments in I shall deal briefly with the private rented sector and the other place. They are not before us now for our chapter 2. It is an important part of the Bill and there consideration. A huge amount of work needs to be have been many interventions referring to it. Research done very quickly. commissioned by the Chartered Institute of Environmental My test of the Bill is whether it will reduce fuel Health, of which I remain an honorary vice-president, poverty around the country in constituencies such as shows that the annual cost to the NHS of private rented mine, Stoke-on-Trent North. In my constituency, 59% homes with excess cold is £145,335,000 nationally. In of people in private rented sector housing, 44% of my region, the west midlands, the cost is high, and we owner-occupiers and 75% of pensioners living in private need to consider how we are addressing that, linked to sector accommodation are in fuel poverty, despite the the new proposals for public health and those in the huge benefit derived from the Warm Front programme. Localism Bill. This is a further aspect of the cross-cutting It is crucial that the detailed measures in the Bill deal agenda. with that and the implications for public health. I am concerned that making regulation conditional What will the Bill do to deal with the effect of the on a review increases the likelihood that landlords will comprehensive spending review of October 2010? We not act voluntarily before 2015. I am not sure that the have already heard about the major reduction in Warm Government have got that right. Further consideration Front funding, and the intention that the programme is urgently needed. The Bill provides for a minimum will be phased out by 2012-13. Will the measures in the standard for commercial rented properties. The Government Bill offer a fair and proportional replacement strategy? have not explained why that is appropriate for the I am conscious that the shift from the Warm Front commercial sector but not for the domestic sector. MPs, programme towards the green deal has put many installer including me, have had a briefing from the Green Building jobs at risk as the scheme is wound down. I ask the Council on the issue, which needs to be addressed Secretary of State to give some attention to that. I refer before Royal Assent. to installers in my constituency and the fact that the The bottom line for me, which has been referred to in Warm Front scheme closed and then started again this interventions, is that the Bill must set a deadline of no year. That has serious repercussions and needs to be later than 2016, after which it will be an offence for a addressed. landlord to re-let or market for rent a property where the energy efficiency rating is band F or G. It is vital There are concerns about the green deal. We need that we ensure that properties that do not meet energy greater clarity and certainty about the scale of ambition, efficiency standards are not rented out. the take-up and the long-term nature of the green deal so that businesses can feel confident about investing in On the energy company obligation, the Government the capacity and the infrastructure necessary to deliver should show that they will be able to deal properly with it. Reference has been made to the interest rate. That the gap between what the green deal delivers and what is will be a key driver in take-up of the deal. The lower the needed. We do not have the detail of the energy company interest rate, the more attractive it will be. When my obligation, and clear information is needed. The coalition own Select Committee went to Germany, we saw how agreement was clear that there should be no public that had been addressed. I am disappointed that so far subsidy for nuclear. One of my concerns relates to there does not seem to be a direct link between the green clause 102, whereby, if anything unexpected happens, investment bank and the green deal. If interest rates are such as an accident at a plant or problems with stored not at about 2%, difficulties will arise. waste, the Government could become liable for the additional costs. The coalition agreement stated that Another important topic is energy efficiency measures. there will be no public subsidy for nuclear, and it is I chair the all-party lighting group. We need to consider incumbent on the Secretary of State to set out exactly not only energy efficiency in the traditional sense, but what that means, because my concern is that clause 102 issues such as lighting. Windows are another aspect of could represent a hidden subsidy. There must be total industry that has been referred to. A briefing that I transparency on that. received from Wolseley sets out other technologies linked On low carbon budgets, no amendment was made in to jobs and to insulation, heating controls, energy pumps the other place, but that needs to be considered again. and water management. All these contribute to the There is some support for the memorandum of wider agenda that we need to address. I am not sure understanding with local councils, but we are nowhere whether the detail of the Bill takes account of that. near getting on the face of the Bill what we need in Citizens Advice has flagged up concerns, particularly relation to local carbon budgets. There is wide support in relation to clause 18, which would empower the from more than 60 organisations for a warm homes Secretary of State to modify the energy supply licence amendment, which must be addressed and brought to allow an energy company to disconnect a customer forward in Committee. for non-payment of green deal payments. Currently, I genuinely want to see Parliament play a role in the 8.8 million energy consumers in the UK rely on pre-payment whole climate change agenda. I desperately want to see meters. Citizens Advice is worried that those consumers action that does what it says for those experiencing fuel have received little consideration in the development of poverty.I want the parliamentarians and Select Committees the Bill. It must clarify how green deal payments will be of this House to play a real role in cross-cutting and collected from people with pre-payment meters, who hope that as the Bill proceeds, despite its many are among those at highest risk of fuel poverty. It is not shortcomings, there will be an opportunity to make at clear how customers’ meter credit will be allocated least some improvements. against green deal payments and arrears, fuel arrears payments and payments for ongoing energy supply. 6.22 pm That is another cross-cutting social consideration that Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I welcome the the Bill must address. opening remarks made by my right hon. Friend the 1079 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1080

[Martin Horwood] Martin Horwood: The hon. Member makes an important point, but we cannot always predict those interest rates, Secretary of State, particularly the non-partisan tone in because we do not know what the situation will be. We which they were made. I have to say, ever so gently, to must look at the situation in the round. the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch The additional measures in the Bill are very welcome, (Meg Hillier) that when I was an Opposition spokesman but there is one that disappoints me in clause 102, which on energy and climate change I took the time to praise the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) her right hon. Friends the Members for Lewisham, has already mentioned. It deals with the vexed question Deptford (Joan Ruddock) and for Doncaster North of the decommissioning and clean-up of nuclear power (Edward Miliband), when I thought that the legislation stations. Cleaning up the last generation of nuclear they were promoting was good, and when they were power stations costs the taxpayer £1.5 billion a year, honestly trying to pursue climate change objectives. I and it would be a great shame if we were to risk do not think that making relentlessly partisan and repeating any part of that mistake. This reopens an negative speeches is terribly constructive. I will just let issue that I thought had been settled in the Energy her reflect on that. Act 2008. I remember the Minister of State, Department The hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) of Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member made a much more constructive speech and asked an for Wealden (Charles Hendry) and I, as Opposition important question about meeting carbon reduction spokespeople, trying to outdo each other in finding the targets in future, particularly the acceptance of the loopholes in the funded decommissioning programme fourth carbon budget recommended by the Committee arrangements in that Act, and the long-term commitments on Climate Change—a theme taken up by other hon. on funding decommissioning that the nuclear industry Members as well. I am sure that my right hon. Friend might try to wriggle out of in order to shift the risk on the Secretary of State was just displaying his notorious to the taxpayer. With all due credit to the ministerial tact and reticence by not stating more fully that he was team of the time, that was tricky because the legislation going to press for the acceptance of that carbon budget. was quite tightly drawn. Section 48 even allowed the It is absolutely crucial that we accept the carbon budget Secretary of State to amend funded decommissioning and make it clear that we are on a clear trajectory to programmes, at either their own or the operator’s suggestion, meeting the ambitious climate change targets that all to take account of unforeseen circumstances. parties agreed to in the Climate Change Act 2008. But lo, we have in the Bill a suggestion that the I warmly welcome many aspects of the Bill, which Secretary of State should promise not to amend those will deliver an important part of the Government’s decommissioning arrangements in advance when the green agenda. The ministerial team is to be congratulated decommissioning arrangement is being set up, either on 95% of it. The green deal is a radical, imaginative “in a particular manner” or “within a particular period”. and ambitious plan. It could deliver energy efficiency That seems a rather strange thing, because clearly the not just haltingly to a few thousand homes, as previous subsequent amendment of those arrangements would energy efficiency programmes have done, but to millions be a matter of negotiation. The Liberal Democrats have of homes, and perhaps even tens of millions. That will discovered quite a lot about negotiation in the past year, represent a step change in energy efficiency in this and now think, on balance, that it is not a good idea to country and make a substantial contribution to reducing give away the negotiating position too early in the process. the UK’s carbon emissions. The additional measures on I think that that applies to Secretaries of State as well. smart meters and offshore electricity transmission regimes The explanation for that provision is apparently that are also very important and much to be welcomed. it is to reassure investors, but that is a rather strange statement. In a way that is a bit of a give-away by the Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): Government, because to reassure investors they are The hon. Gentleman and the Secretary of State have presumably trying to reduce the risk. There are only two talked about step changing and game changing. Does possible explanations for that. Either the Government he not agree with a number of Members on both sides are actually reducing the risk or they are trying to shift of the House, but particularly the Opposition side, that it elsewhere. The nature of unforeseen circumstances, of a crucial element about which we are not yet clear is the course, is that they are unforeseen. Although I attribute interest rate that will be payable? We need to know that many gifts to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of in order to ensure that the change is as significant as he State, clairvoyance is not one of them. We cannot know claims it will be. what those unforeseen circumstances will be, any more than the Japanese Government could. Therefore, it is Martin Horwood: I am sympathetic to the hon. only the transfer of that risk that is likely to take place. Gentleman’s point, which is important, but the genius It is transferring the risk straightforwardly from the of the green deal is that it will use market mechanisms operators to the taxpayer. If that is not against the and a competitive arena in which providers will compete words of the coalition agreement’s promise not to subsidise to provide the best deal, which I hope will help drive nuclear power, it is certainly against its spirit. down the interest rates offered by different financers If we need an extreme and sobering warning of what and providers. might happen in such situations, we need only look at what is happening in Japan right now. The operator of Barry Gardiner: Does the hon. Gentleman accept the Fukushima nuclear power station, TEPCO, has that the Department of Energy and Climate Change now asked formally for Government help to fund the has predicted that the interest rate would be 11%, which compensation for the 80,000 people who are still evacuated has to be factored in, particularly when dealing with the from their homes in the area, which it is estimated will fuel-poor? cost around £61 billion in total. 1081 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1082

Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend should recognise that As the Secretary of State says, it provides reassurance to the clause intends not only to provide more certainty investors, but it provides very little reassurance to me or for investors, but to recognise that there might need to to the taxpayer. be changes. Those changes would not necessarily be downwards, either; they might well be upwards, in 6.33 pm circumstances that would have been set out clearly in an Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): It is a pleasure to agreement. That applies to costs as well, so, far from follow the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin saying that the measure would drive a coach and horses Horwood). I have fond memories of debating with him through our commitment to no public subsidy, I am the glorious merits of the south-west regional spatial saying exactly the opposite: it puts flesh on our commitment strategy, and I am sure that you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to no public subsidy for nuclear. as a fine Bristol Member of Parliament, have your own Martin Horwood: I did not say that the measure thoughts on that, too. would drive a coach and horses through our commitment I welcome the notion of the Bill, because it is difficult to no subsidy. I am sure that our commitment to it is to oppose in principle a Bill that intends to increase absolutely intact, but the clause seems to insert a rather energy efficiency, improve energy security and ensure large crack in the edifice. The arrangement that my greater competitiveness for energy companies in the right hon. Friend mentions—in which the operator and UK, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney the Secretary of State may agree to the necessity of South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) said, this Energy some amendments, which might be upwards or downwards Bill is such a wasted opportunity. It treads water so —is in the existing legislation. The difference between much that British industry and enterprise, in a field that and the clause under discussion, however, is that in where we could lead the world, will be left behind by the existing legislation the final decision rests with the other countries, and the poorest and most vulnerable Secretary of State, and in the clause before us the households, which face massive increases in fuel bills Secretary of State gives away that right in advance. That over the next few years, will not be helped quickly seems to represent poor negotiation. enough. I want to focus on two broad themes, and in To return to the situation in Fukushima— particular on where the Bill does not provide enough detail—a recurring theme of this Second Reading—or Barry Gardiner: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? enough ambition. Let me outline the huge potential that we have in Martin Horwood: I will not—or perhaps I will; I have Hartlepool, my area, and the wider Teesside and north-east a few minutes to spare. areas to lead the world in modern energy production and distribution. In my part of the world we have Barry Gardiner: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. always been at the cutting edge of energy infrastructure Does he accept that the DECC’s proposals for a “contract and technology. The docks and the railways in Hartlepool for difference” feed-in tariff are precisely the subsidy to and elsewhere in the north-east were built in the 1820s and the nuclear industry that he counsels his right hon. 1830s to transport coal from the south Durham coalfields Friend not to introduce? —I see my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) seated on the Front Bench—to London, and Martin Horwood: I am not sure about feed-in tariffs, the world’s first bulk oil tanker for Standard Oil, the but if the hon. Gentleman is talking about the floor Marex, was built at west Hartlepool docks in 1892. price for carbon, that certainly risks inadvertently subsidising My area has the potential to lead the world in energy the new, and indeed existing, nuclear industries. Perhaps in the 21st century, as it did in the 19th century. Our a windfall tax on the nuclear industry might help to assets in the region are second to none. The largest compensate for that, because the floor price for carbon heavy industrial area in the country is on Teesside, and is an important policy for operators. we already have a cluster of world-class petrochemical, To return—for the final time, I hope—to Fukushima energy and industrial biotechnology plants. In my and the example in Japan, the compensation bill looks constituency I have a nuclear power station with the likely to be about £61 billion for the 80,000 people who prospect of a replacement in the next decade, the fourth have been evacuated from their homes, and for the largest port in the UK, a steel industry specialising in damage to agriculture, businesses and so on in the area. construction and energy infrastructure, and a world-class That is a very extreme case, but it is not impossible to advanced engineering industry. imagine much smaller disasters—natural shocks to the The port of Hartlepool is the closest such facility to system, terrorist attacks or whatever—that might deliver the Dogger bank, the location in the North sea of the similarly unexpected large bills. biggest offshore wind project this century, which could The situation in Japan has resulted in its Government provide one quarter of Britain’s energy requirements by announcing today that they will examine their energy the middle of this century. We also have a highly skilled policy from scratch, with a brand new emphasis—surprise, and flexible work force who can innovate and adapt surprise—on renewables and energy efficiency, and almost their engineering expertise to design and manufacture certainly less emphasis on nuclear. That seems to me a new forms of energy production and distribution for wise decision to take, in the circumstances. the 21st century. I am pleased that we are emphasising energy efficiency In my constituency PD Ports has introduced the before we are forced to do so, and it is important that concept of “Chain Reaction”, the Teesside renewable the Government promote renewables and energy efficiency energy supply chain cluster, where firms work together as cornerstones of their energy policy, but I would not in Hartlepool and in the wider Teesside and north-east want energy subsidy for nuclear to creep into that areas to provide facilities and skills for other companies mixture, and it seems to me that clause 102 is unnecessary. that wish to invest in the energy industry. 1083 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1084

[Mr Iain Wright] I cannot stress this enough: we would miss the opportunity of our generation if we failed to grasp the We have other ambitious companies determined to huge potential that this country, not least my constituency grow and succeed, such as JDR Cables and Heerema and region, possesses. I fear that in five, 10 or 15 years’ Hartlepool, which are located on land provided by PD time we in this House will be reflecting on how we could Ports and supply the components for offshore wind have been pioneers of a noble and groundbreaking developments. Tata Tubes in Hartlepool manufactures world industry, but are instead rueing the loss of jobs, pipes that sit on the bottom of oceans throughout the ambition, wealth, social equality and climate stability. globe, allowing oil and gas to be extracted, transported, The second theme that I wish to explore is the pressing processed and distributed to the highest possible need to improve the energy efficiency of much of our specification. housing stock, particularly in the private rented sector. Our region has identified a £6 billion pipeline of As the Secretary of State articulately explained, there commercial investment for the next decade with regard are more energy-inefficient properties in the private to energy policy, but we have to move quickly if we want rented sector than in other tenures. For instance, privately to lead the world in this field, because other nations are rented properties are much more likely to have inadequate already stealing a march on us. The Pew Environment loft and cavity wall insulation, and less likely to have Group states that the UK is losing the race to be the double glazing or a condensing boiler. The landlord’s leading economic powerhouse of the global green economy. energy savings allowance, an incentive introduced by Last year we declined from third in the world in terms the last Labour Government, had considerable merit, of investment in green growth to 13th, behind Brazil, but—I must be honest—a very disappointing take-up. Mexico and Singapore. The Secretary of State mentioned that over 40% of Frustratingly, Singapore’s energy industry is similar tenants in F-rated and G-rated homes in the private in many respects to Teesside’s: centred on oil refining, rented sector are fuel-poor, and I imagine that there is a with successful spin-offs into chemicals, oilfield equipment big risk that that proportion will get worse as energy manufacturing, shipping and logistics. Singapore is moving prices increase. In this context, the Secretary of State’s much more ambitiously than the United Kingdom, announcement about minimum efficiency standards is particularly in new growth areas such as solar power, very welcome, although I do not understand why it was fuel cells, biofuels and energy management, and it aims not announced during the Bill’s passage through the to increase the value-added from its energy industry other place. from $20 billion to $34 billion in four years and to triple Questions still remain about certain elements of this employment in the sector in little over five years. aspect of the Bill, particularly whether big and numerous Closer to home, Rotterdam is pushing itself as the Government amendments will be needed to put in place energy port of Europe. The city’s port authority has their ambitions in chapter 2. The Bill’s impact assessment aspirations to become the CO2-free hub of north-west acknowledges: Europe, and about ¤6 billion will be invested in the port “It is assumed that landlords will not act on primary powers” authority in the next few years to help realise that aspiration, with an emphasis on hydrogen production, provided in the Bill. It concludes that supply and distribution. “no benefits are expected to arise from primary legislation”. Given what other countries are doing, the possibility In that case, what is the point of the provision? I of a missed opportunity is particularly frustrating, because understand the need for secondary legislation in this we in this country remain very well placed to lead that field, but why cannot we act more quickly to ensure that global industry. Pew Environment Group estimates that tenants are helped now? The powers in the Bill are very $2.3 trillion could be invested in clean energy infrastructure weak, and the prospect of secondary legislation is so far in the next decade, and, although much of the attention into the future as to be completely meaningless to is focused on the east, on China and the Pacific rim, tenants in my constituency. Pew concludes that the UK, the US and India are the three countries with the most to gain from what it What is the point of having a review of energy terms the efficiency in the private rented sector that is not required to report until 1 April 2014? And under the powers in “adoption of aggressive clean energy, when enhanced policies are compared to current policies.” clause 43, regulations relating to energy efficiency for tenants mean that improvements may come into force I do not see the ambitions of my area, Hartlepool no earlier than 1 April 2015. We all know that energy and Teesside, matched by the Government’s actions in efficiency is bad in the private rented sector; even if we the Bill. The rhetoric is often positive and encouraging, did not, the Bill’s impact assessment tells us so. Why can but the Bill demonstrates that the Government are the Government not move faster to do something about merely providing warm words. After so much rhetoric it now, instead of making somewhat vague promises about the green investment bank, there is nothing in the about acting in three or four years’ time? Bill to help it to move forward successfully and quickly. Businesses in the field are requesting a clear vision for the road ahead, with certainty and stability to allow for Dr Whitehead: Will my hon. Friend reflect on how large-scale investment decisions, but that is not happening. landlords are going to be found under the arrangements Uncertainty about the green investment bank, one-off that have been announced? Will he also reflect on the raids on small and medium oil and gas explorers in the fact that the Government recently removed the secondary Budget, and further delays to round three of the Crown legislation that provided for the creation of a national Estate project to increase offshore energy generation landlords register for homes in multiple occupation, by are undermining confidence and stalling investment which landlords could be found for energy efficiency decisions. purposes? 1085 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1086

Mr Wright: I remember with great affection going to and to support a Government who are introducing it. It Southampton to see my hon. Friend’s constituency and will benefit homes and businesses, allowing them to talking to people who lived in homes in multiple occupation. save money. At the moment, saving money matters to I was privileged to be a Minister with responsibility for individuals, to families, and, very much, to businesses. the private rented sector in the last Labour Government. It is tough environment out there economically, and if We put in place the Rugg review, which recommended they can save money, all the better. to us the importance of a landlords register. It is incredibly The green deal involves the introduction of a new disappointing that that important database of information financial framework that is subject to market forces. I will not be put in place, as it could have helped to say to those calling for details about the interest rates implement this move much faster. that we should wait and see and let the market dictate. I welcomed the prospect of an Energy Bill in this We are talking about long-term energy products, particularly parliamentary Session. In such a Bill the Government in the area of generation, and I would invest in that could have achieved so much to help British industry, sector if I were in control of a sizeable pension fund particularly in my region, to become world leaders in because that would produce a return in the medium to this growing sector, and they could have been much longer term. I do not buy into the idea that interest rates more resolute in providing help to more vulnerable will be driven higher by this scheme. It is “pay as you households, particularly in the private rented sector. save”, and it will benefit people who are struggling with The fact that they have not done that is deeply frustrating their bills. The loan is supposedly £6,500—I hear rumours and disappointing. I fear that this missed opportunity is that it may be slightly increased—and it will be made something that we will regret for decades to come. against the property, not against the individual; that is an important distinction. In the past, when we have 6.44 pm tried to go down this policy path, we have worried about the loan going with the individual and the fact Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): Let me begin by that those who are less able to afford it will therefore not congratulating Members on their contributions, particularly take one out. The reality is that it will be attached to the my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (Mr Yeo), property. who made a very interesting speech, although he had the good fortune to follow the shadow Secretary of The second aspect is the introduction of the energy State, whose speech was terribly negative. If there is one company obligation to replace the carbon emissions thing that energy and climate change policy needs, it is reduction target. As I understand it, it will target those some cross-party agreement. Dealing with these challenges who could experience fuel poverty and have homes that does not fit in with five-year parliamentary terms; there are difficult to insulate. I think that it was a Scottish needs to be agreement and understanding on policy Member who referred to the difficulty of insulating over decades. some homes. The idea in the Bill is to deal with those problems. In view of the fact that 25% of carbon Barry Gardiner: Does the hon. Gentleman believe emissions are thought to come from those very homes, that his party should reaffirm the statement by the it strikes me as an investment worth making. Committee on Climate Change that there should be a There are estimates on the benefits of the green deal. 50% reduction in carbon emissions by 2025? I am always cautious about such estimates because they are always dependent on human behaviour. The Secretary Dr Lee: My view is that these targets are extremely of State referred to the situation of someone having a difficult to meet, partly because the energy policy of the Brazilian wife, and the reality is that such estimates are previous Administration was woeful; admittedly, it improved not always accurate. However, it is suggested that the when the Leader of the Opposition took over the position benefit to society will be in the realm of £8 billion to that the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch £9 billion. Fourteen million insulation measures are (Meg Hillier) now shadows. The hon. Gentleman knows required, which could lead to an average saving of that we are in a difficult position as regards hitting these £550 per year on domestic bills. That will lead to an targets, and that difficulty was not aided by the previous increase in manufacturing jobs. In my constituency of Government’s performance. Bracknell, small and medium-sized construction firms In the spirit of the Bill, I will try to speak within the are crying out for this kind of work. There will be no generous time limit and save some energy. I am struck shortage of companies willing to do it. There will be an by the fact that the time limit is so long, because energy increase not only in manufacturing jobs, but in service and the need to secure energy supply is one of the most jobs. If we hit 26 million homes taking up the scheme, important strategic challenges for our generation. We the number of jobs in the sector may increase from cannot have more hospitals, schools, aircraft carriers or 27,000 to 250,000. That is pretty good. anything else provided by Government unless we have I welcome the changes to the Energy Act 2008 to ease energy, so the subject matters very much. I want to the introduction of smart meters. A number of companies speak primarily about the green deal, because that is at in my constituency, not least General Electric, will be the heart of the Bill, but will move on to discuss energy pleased to hear about that. If smart meters function generation and my thoughts and views on the technology properly and are able to connect to the network—I of the future that, as a country, we should be backing. know that there are problems with that—they will play The green deal is an ambitious plan, and the first of an essential part in reducing energy usage. Ultimately, its kind in the world. I hear that Opposition Members that is what this legislation is all about. I congratulate want more detail, and of course it requires additional Ministers on making energy efficiency the key part of clarification that will no doubt come in Committee. The their first Bill, because that is the easiest way to reduce reality, however, is that this is the first time that such a our carbon footprint. On a recent trip to Norway, I was scheme has been attempted. I am very proud of that struck that even though it generates huge amounts of 1087 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1088

[Dr Phillip Lee] I know that the Government are reviewing low-carbon technologies and that £200 million will be allocated. I energy, the first thing I was told was, “Phillip, the best hope that they look at marine technology and do their thing that Britain can do is become more energy efficient.” best to support it. I think that it is an opportunity for us I know that the same view is held in Sweden. to lead the world. If one believes RenewableUK, it is an I am also pleased about the balance of powers between opportunity for us to generate 20% of our energy. I Government and the nuclear industry in regard to recognise the capital cost and the potential local decommissioning. I am a strong advocate of nuclear environmental impact of the Severn bore project, but power, and I found it depressing to hear yet another that one project could provide 12% to 15% of the UK’s speech on the dangers of nuclear power from the hon. electricity needs. We need to look at that again. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood). I remind him that, as yet, there has never been a proven death Andrew George: The hon. Gentleman is making a from nuclear power in the west. number of interesting points about the renewables sector. He is right that there are five ROCs for marine renewables Martin Horwood: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? in Scotland and three south of the border. That does not particularly help. The wave hub off the north coast Dr Lee: Of course. I am interested to hear the hon. of my constituency will be the first project of that Gentleman’s response. commercial scale in the world. We clearly need to find a way forward, but how does he propose that we get Martin Horwood: I have on occasion made speeches parity north and south of the border? about the dangers of nuclear power, but today’s was not one of them. I actually talked about the dangers of Dr Lee: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, subsidising nuclear power through the use of clause 102. but I do not know the answer to that question. This is just another example of how Scotland is different from Dr Lee: Forgive me. I thought that the hon. Gentleman England, and I am getting somewhat frustrated by that. said something about compensation to agriculture and I will quickly move on to new nuclear technologies. people moving house. However, I shall move on. First, molten salt reactors eat nuclear waste and have no The final part of my speech will be about energy proliferation concerns. That is a no-brainer, so how generation. I commend the previous Government for come we are not pursuing it? Finally, I will talk about their commitment to offshore wind, which was a strategically thorium, which is found in the cliffs of Cornwall and important decision. Given that we have shallow water in may well be in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. It is the North sea, I think that it was the right decision. I am also found in Wales. The greatest resource is in Norway, not so sure about onshore wind, but offshore wind, for a relatively stable country compared with the countries sure. that we get most of our energy from. Thorium is three times more abundant than uranium and does not produce This country needs a sustainable energy policy. It any dangerous waste. Incidentally, that is why it was not needs sustainable sources of energy that are low carbon pursued in the ’50s because it does not create the and, most importantly, secure. There is an increasing plutonium needed for nuclear weapons. China is now world population, which is going to hit the 7 billion going big time on this, as is India. How come we are mark earlier than projected. One does not have to be a not? It strikes me as an obvious thing for us to go for. doctor to know that that means that the 8 billion, Doing so may satisfy my Liberal Democrat colleagues 9 billion and 10 billion marks will be hit earlier, because because it is safer to produce and does not produce any that is what human beings do. That concerns me because nuclear waste of note. It has certainly satisfied me it means that future wars on this planet will be fought because we can source thorium more easily. over not just energy and fuels such as oil and gas, but also over food and water. This country has to get real. It In conclusion, at a time when Britain has significant has to realise that energy matters. Energy is associated economic challenges, finding ways to save energy is an with prosperity, as everybody knows. We cannot rely on obvious target. The green deal is fantastic for families, how we have done things in the past, but must look to fantastic for individuals, and fantastic for businesses. the future and work out how Britain can become as That is why I am pleased to support the Bill. I hope that energy independent as possible. the Minister will give some thought to what I have said about energy generation. I will mention two areas. The first is marine technology. The UK is surrounded by energy; water is just the medium that transmits that energy. Tidal power comes 6.59 pm from the moon, and we have the Severn bore. Waves, particularly off Scotland, provide remarkable sources Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): I must confess that of energy. Why are we not concentrating on harnessing when the Secretary of State was at the Dispatch Box that energy? It strikes me as a no-brainer. Why is it that and talked about a golden rule, a slight shiver went up there are more renewables obligation certificates for my spine as I remembered the last person who went on tidal and wave in Scotland than in England? How is about that. that paid for? I encourage the Minister to look at that, The hon. Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee) asked about and I know that there is a review of ROCs at the the Scottish system of ROCs. It is different from England’s moment. Why is solar so subsidised, and not marine? because the Scottish Government have emphasised the That was a decision by the previous Administration. importance of renewables and have a target of 100% Solar is subsidised nine times more than onshore wind. renewable energy. They have rejected new nuclear power I know we are having some good weather at the moment, stations, a stance that was endorsed by the people of but I do not think that that makes sense in this country. Scotland only last Thursday. 1089 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1090

I generally support the main aims of the Bill, and the On the green deal, we welcome any moves to increase Scottish Parliament has approved a legislative consent the number of homes with good energy efficiency and resolution in respect of some of it. I came to the make use of domestic microgeneration, but we have Chamber intending to support the Government should some concerns about the Government’s approach. There it be pushed to a vote, but I listened to the Secretary of is talk of amendments on warm homes, and we are State and one or two points gave me pause for thought. generally sympathetic to what they are intended to In particular, when I asked him about clause 100, I achieve. However, I wish to mention a point made by found his answer very strange indeed. The explanatory the Federation of Master Builders in its briefing on the notes state: Bill. It quotes the Minister as saying that the Government’s “This clause enables designations under section 1(7) of the aim is to have 14 million homes transformed by 2020, Continental Shelf Act 1964 to be revoked, amended and re-enacted. and states that that This will provide flexibility in making arrangements about maritime “would require work to be completed at the rate of 1.5 million boundaries with the United Kingdom’s neighbours by enabling homes per annum which equates to almost 30,000 homes per us to swap areas which have already been designated under week or put another way 4,274 homes per day!” section 1(7).” There is nothing wrong with such an ambitious target, However, the Library research paper specifically states but to achieve it we need to ensure that there is a that the clause will veritable army of installers to take on the work. “facilitate the signing of a comprehensive agreement with Ireland I fear that, because of the way in which the green deal about maritime boundaries. The aim is to provide flexibility in is being set up, it might be dominated by a few large managing the UK Continental Shelf resources.” companies, as my hon. Friend the Member for Na When I asked for clarity about what was actually intended, h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) said to the Secretary of he talked about marginal fields in the North sea. As far State. The Minister may remember that I have previously as I am aware, Ireland does not have a boundary in the raised with him the concerns of SELECT, which represents North sea. I wonder exactly what is intended by the the Scottish electrotechnical industry, about the clause, and I ask the Minister to provide a bit more microgeneration certification scheme, which it feels works clarity. As the clause appears in the Energy Bill, I against small firms in several ways. It drew up an assume that it has something to do with energy resources, alternative scheme, which should be acceptable under whether they be offshore renewables, oil and gas or the relevant EU directive and is consistent with the whatever. We need some clarification of that point. Scottish Government’s building standards system, but DECC would not agree to that system being put in Barry Gardiner: If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, place. I will try to help him. When the six counties of Northern I understand that under the current scheme, it is Ireland were established and the treaty with Eire was difficult for firms to become certified. For them to concluded, the land was designated but there was no qualify, the equipment that they install must be MCS- mention in the treaty of the continental shelf. The certified and installed by an MCS-certified installer. Republic of Ireland has therefore always maintained The difficulty for small firms, particularly those in rural that the six counties’ land is Northern Ireland, but not and island areas of Scotland, is that many are unable to the area around the coast, as would normally be the obtain certification because they cannot provide the case. There has therefore always been a dispute between required number of installations. Nobody is likely to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Irish want such installations unless they are certified. I fear Government about exactly what the status of that area that that problem will be transferred from the MCS to is, which is why the clause appears as it does. the green deal scheme if it is carried out by larger companies. Mr Weir: I thank the hon. Gentleman. If that is the case, I understand that there is a rather strange boundary Gregory Barker: I am listening carefully to the hon. in that area, but the Secretary of State’s mention of Gentleman, and I am aware of and responsive to his oilfields in the North sea set alarm bells ringing about concerns, but which technology in particular is he talking what is intended. That is the point on which I seek about? The MCS covers a whole range of technologies, clarification. and some providers are perfectly happy with the scheme whereas others have specific problems.

Mr Binley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving Mr Weir: The Minister says that, but firms involved way—he is my hon. Friend, and I am pleased to call him in a range of technologies have approached me. Scottish such. Has he read the explanatory notes, which make Renewables has raised problems with the scheme, and it the point that the areas concerned are more than covers all sorts of microgeneration technologies that 200 nautical miles from the Irish baseline, and therefore will be important in providing renewables in future, cannot be included in the Irish exclusive economic particularly in remote rural and island areas. We hope zone? I believe we are talking about a matter of tidying that those technologies will be financed partly under the up, and I hope that explanation is enough for him to green deal. Unless the problem of not allowing small carry on his intention to vote for this worthy Bill. firms to install equipment is solved, smaller communities in rural areas may not get the benefits that could come Mr Weir: I thank my hon. Friend, but again, I would from the green deal. They may not get the jobs that the refer to what the Secretary of State said. My hon. Secretary of State talked about. Friend may understand what the clause means, but from the answer I received earlier I am not sure the Gregory Barker: The MCS is quite outside the scope Secretary of State does. I want clarity about what is of this Second Reading debate, but I take the hon. intended. Gentleman’s point entirely. I have had concerns about it 1091 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1092

[Gregory Barker] that would otherwise not be worked can access that infrastructure. Currently, the Secretary of State can myself, or at least about some parts of it, and I have make a decision, but it is difficult to see how he could been considering how we can improve it. If he would do so unilaterally without referral from one or other care to come to see me, I would be very happy to sit party. down and talk to him about it to see whether we can On an allied matter, RenewableUK notes that the address his concerns in more detail. Crown Estate currently gives oil and gas developers leasing priority over offshore wind farm developers if Mr Weir: I thank the Minister very much for that supplies are found, with no compensation payable to offer, which takes two pages out of my speech. I will the developer. It says that the existence of that measure certainly take him up on that. It is an important point: leads to insecurity and uncertainty in development at a although we support the aims behind the green deal, it time when offshore wind is rapidly expanding. The must benefit all areas of the country and not just the Minister needs to consider that matter in more detail, B&Qs of this world—not that I have anything against although the obvious solution is to devolve the Crown B&Q. Estates to Scotland and we will sort out our own I note with interest clauses 80 to 89, relating to solution. offshore petroleum and gas and particularly to the That brings me to my final point, on offshore difficulties of a common carrier arrangement. The Select transmissions, which is allied to my shared infrastructure Committee on Energy and Climate Change considered concerns. Ofgem makes the point in its briefing that that matter back in 2009, when I was a member. We “the Bill contains provisions to facilitate the next stage of the heard evidence on the issue, and it is fair to say, and enduring offshore regulatory regime, allowing wind farm generators hardly surprising, that there was a great deal of difference to build network assets before transferring their ownership to the of opinion on the need for a common carrier arrangement successful winner of the tender.” for North sea infrastructure. However, how will the energy be brought onshore from With specific reference to the future development of those offshore wind farms? There is a lack of joined-up fields west of Shetland, which may or may not proceed thinking on how offshore energy is fed into the national given the Government’s tax grab, the Committee noted: grid. To illustrate, there are three wind farms off the “We understand the Government’s argument for not wanting coast of my constituency. I have asked their developers to interfere in a heavy-handed way in the establishment of a how they intend to bring the energy to land, and each common carrier arrangement for oil and gas west of Shetland. has its own proposal. We are in danger of running into But two things are clear: west of Shetland resources offer enormous public opposition to offshore wind farms not because potential—possibly a fifth of our remaining oil and gas resources; of the wind farms themselves, but because of the on-land and putting in place a shared infrastructure to exploit those infrastructure needed to bring the energy ashore, especially resources is expensive and complex. The Government should if there are myriad onshore connections within a small continue its dialogue with industry and agree a timescale for the distance of one another. establishment of such a shared infrastructure and the arrangements governing its use. If progress does not meet that timescale the I have urged those developers to speak to one other Government should be prepared to take a more active role, about linking up offshore so that they can bring one probably through regulation but not precluding assistance with cable on to land, but that does not seem to be happening. funding.” The Government need to look at that to ensure that we The all-party group on the British offshore oil and gas do not run into the difficulties with offshore wind that industry recently heard from a representative of small we ran into with onshore wind. companies working in the North sea, who talked about If the Minister gives me some assurance on those the difficulties that exist. The problem with the common points, I might remain quite happy to recommend carrier arrangement is that many of the fields in the supporting the Bill to my hon. Friends. The Bill has North sea are now smaller fields that have been sold off many good measures in it, so the little clause on swapping by the majors and redeveloped by smaller companies. bits of our continental shelf is odd. That gives us cause However, to bring the oil and gas ashore those companies for concern, particularly given actions by previous need access to the infrastructure, which is generally Governments on the continental shelf that mean that I owned by the majors. There are sometimes difficulties look out from my constituency on to an area of water in gaining such access. that is English for fishing purposes. The group was told that there is a legal process known as a determination, whereby if negotiations on Several hon. Members rose— access to infrastructure fail, DECC can be called on to set terms and conditions and a tariff price. A determination Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. A has never been effectively used, and although DECC is very large number of Members still wish to speak in this making efforts to address that shortcoming, a determination debate, and we will not get everybody in at this rate with is a backstop that comes too late in the process. Oil & a 12-minute limit on speeches, so I am taking the time Gas UK set up a voluntary agreement, but it says that it limit down now, from the next speaker and for the is difficult to get much of the information it requires, remaining Back-Bench speeches, to 10 minutes. If hon. particularly on tariffs and previous commercial deals. It Members can use less than that, we should comfortably is therefore difficult for smaller operators to gain access run up to the period for the wind-ups. If not, I shall to infrastructure. have to revisit the limit. The Bill continues the existing arrangements and does not address that difficulty. I recognise the difficulty 7.15 pm of Government action, but such action is necessary to Mr Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): Thank you very ensure that small companies that currently work fields much, Madam Deputy. I shall be speedy. 1093 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1094

It is a great pleasure to contribute to this debate and on—finger-wagging at its worst—but the green deal is to be part of the Government who have brought this different. Yes, it is a game-changer, but I would prefer to landmark—I do not use that word lightly—Bill before describe it as a no-brainer. To my mind, it changes the House. I am sorry to return to this point, but I agree behaviour and reduces carbon footprints the easy way. with the shadow Secretary of State on one thing: climate change is too important to be kicked around. That is Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): Does the hon. Gentleman why her kicking it around was so very disappointing. I agree that the introduction of the green deal in its support the Bill, and I hope the Opposition come current form will hit the poorest hardest? through the Lobby with Government Members this evening. They are very welcome to do so. Mr Brine: I do not agree, and I will come on to why I wanted to speak on Second Reading because the not. Bill has the potential to be truly transformative. Let me On the economic case for the green deal, I am clear make it clear, however, that I am not writing a blank that the Bill is about growth as much as it is about cheque. The Bill is seriously radical and very welcome, saving energy and reducing carbon emissions. As we but it could be better, and I shall try to explain how. heard from the Secretary of State, the Bill, and the I was adopted to fight the general election in Winchester green deal it ushers in, will create in legislation a whole back in November 2006—a long time ago. At that time, new market, which, as we know, does not happen every Al Gore’s Oscar-winning film, “An Inconvenient Truth”, day. We heard from him about the tens of thousands of was absolutely everywhere except Winchester. One of new jobs in the green economy that these measures will the first things I did was to get it shown at the excellent create. We should remember that these are new jobs in small, independent Screen cinema in Winchester. The the private sector, many of which will, we hope, be in response to the film was overwhelming, proving once small and medium-sized enterprises. I hope therefore again to anybody who does not know the great city of that Ministers will keep SMEs at the forefront of their Winchester just how important the green agenda, the minds at all times as the green deal is developed and fight against climate change and the drive for a low-carbon rolled out. The industrial opportunities that the green economy are to my constituency and the people whom I deal presents for some of the big guys, such as John now represent. I should declare an interest in that I have Lewis, B&Q and Asda—I have nothing against them—are long since been signed up to that agenda, but I love the great, but I am keen to ensure that the small guys are commitment of many of my constituents to handing a centre stage and can use the new marketplace as a cleaner, greener and better environment on to the next springboard from which to grow their businesses and generation, and I back it wholeheartedly. employ new people as the green deal comes on line. It was therefore hugely to my satisfaction that in In addition to the jobs that I hope will be created as opposition my party developed plans for the green deal the green deal develops, we will undoubtedly see a and many of the measures in the Bill. I remember fast-growing industry for training. I am fortunate to welcoming to Winchester my right hon. Friend the have one such training company in my constituency—New Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert), Career Skills on the Chandler’s Ford industrial estate. then the shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs The Prime Minister visited NCS while he was Leader of Secretary, to help to explain the green deal to the good the Opposition and rightly praised its work in training people of Hampshire—and a good job he did of it too. and retraining college graduates and career changers He described the policy as a game-changer, and he was alike in the green profession. The company offers insulation not wrong. He is not alone in using that expression, as training as well as training in renewables, and is exactly we have heard in the debate. what we need to make the green deal a reality on the ground. I am told that NCS receives thousands of new The Conservative manifesto was succinct on the subject, inquiries every week via its website, but can enrol only a stating that: limited number of new students. The Government need “we will create a ‘Green Deal’, giving every home up to £6,500 to help that business to grow and to up its operation worth of energy improvement measures…paid for out of savings significantly if the green deal is to have the skilled made on fuel bills”, technicians needed to make it work and credible. and the coalition agreement reaffirmed the two parties’ NCS told me, as it told the Prime Minister, that many shared commitment to the policy. I am pleased that that students struggle to raise the funds necessary to take the part of the coalition agreement will not be reopened. course and gain the qualifications. As a provider of this The green deal was a positive policy to sell as a key training, it provides finance, but as a small business candidate in the general election. It was one of those it is obviously limited in the number of loans it can rare beasts in politics, because everyone who heard underwrite on behalf of those students. The Government about it saw the logic of it, and no doubt thought, have urgently to consider the support available, because “Why didn’t I think of it?” including the Labour party, this sector needs to grow, and if we are to train enough which might explain its reaction to the Bill. skilled people—legitimate concerns have been expressed I outlined the policy at a special hustings meeting in the Chamber about who they are and where they will purely on the environment—we had only 12 hustings come from—to ensure that the green deal reaches critical meetings. The meeting was organised by Winchester mass and matches Ministers’ obvious ambition, companies Action on Climate Change, to which I pay great tribute. such as NCS will be important. As I said at the meeting, what I like about the green deal I want to say a word about the third sector and local is that it replaces the stick with the carrot. All too often, councils. There is an organisation in my constituency changing behaviour to reduce our carbon footprint is called GreenWin, which sits as part of Winchester city about what we must stop doing, and about how awful council’s climate change programme, and could be a we are for living our lives, having children and so lean and highly efficient vehicle to drive the green deal 1095 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1096

[Mr Brine] but given that we must meet the ambitious targets set by the Climate Change Act, is this Bill not an opportunity in the area I represent. I pay tribute to a constituent of to bring local councils to the table? mine, Rob Veck from Colden common, who lives in a house we could call “green deal-plus”—although even Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con): that would be an understatement—and who is doing so Does my hon. Friend not think that a good place to much to make GreenWin happen. Critical to GreenWin’s start would be for the Government to set out exactly success is building a district-wide network of affiliated how the green deal will help them to achieve their suppliers and installers. The idea is simple: to build a climate change targets? database with moderated customer feedback that acts as a quality check on the delivery of the green deal. It is Mr Brine: I absolutely agree with that point. I can see 100% community based and is big society-plus with the logic in setting local carbon budgets, because many bells on. However, GreenWin has been extremely frustrated council leaders up and down the country of all political by funding issues. I urge Ministers to engage with such persuasions believe in the growth and green agenda as groups, which is why I appreciate, and will take up, the much as hon. Members. However, some do not, and Minister’s offer to meet GreenWin through me. they need to come to the table if we are to meet those ambitious targets. The role of the new green deal assessors is important to the roll-out of the green deal. However, it is not clear In closing, I want to place on record my genuine to me, and many others, how these GDAs will make a excitement: this could be a transformation Bill; it is true living. Logic suggests that they should be independent— to the Prime Minister’s ambition to make this the similar to independent financial advisers—but I would greenest Government ever; and it is seriously helpful to appreciate a lead from the Minister, perhaps in Committee, the Chancellor of the Exchequer in helping to create the on how they will operate, and on how we can ensure growth that we so desperately need right now. that they will not be cut out of the green deal by the big boys. 7.26 pm I want to touch briefly on the eligibility criteria for Mr Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton) green deal homes, and place on record my thanks to (Lab): We have listened to a distinctly Panglossian rosy Ministers for clarifying, as they did in Department of glow of a statement from the Secretary of State. I think Energy and Climate Change questions in March, that that we can all support the green deal’s ostensible the green deal will apply to park home residents, if they objectives, but there are profound problems with the have an appropriate energy meter and qualify under the mechanisms and financing necessary to deliver on the normal rules. Park home residents in Winchester and rhetoric. The Bill’s biggest flaw is the failure to address Chandler’s Ford have expressed to me their grave adequately the central issue in energy policy, which is to disappointment about how the Warm Front scheme cut establish a target for the most efficient way of meeting them out, and they are very pleased, as is their Member the nation’s energy requirement over the next 20 years of Parliament, that the green deal with apply to them. or so, and then to put in place secure and effective I promised to say where the Bill could be stronger, mechanisms to ensure that those targets are met. I think and I would welcome Ministers’ responses, either today that the Bill is the wrong way around: it makes assumptions or in Committee, to my suggestions. The Government about the level of energy supply in future decades, and will be aware that many, including the organisations then proposes mechanisms, albeit—as I shall show—rather that make up the Stop Climate Chaos Coalition, do not uncertain and dubious ones, to green that supply. think that the Energy Bill is strong enough and are The Government’s draft overarching national policy calling for an amendment—the so-called warm homes statement blandly states, as a sort of unchallengeable amendment we have heard about today—that would datum, that a doubling, or even tripling, of generation introduce provisions to ensure that the Government’s will be required by 2050. That clearly puts the cart programme on energy efficiency, including the green before the horse, however. If, instead of planning for X deal, fits within an overarching energy-saving strategy terawatts of extra power over the next two to three sufficient to meet the ambition of the Climate Change decades, it was practicable to reduce the figure by, say, Act 2008. To remind the House, that ambition is for an 40%—I think that is practicable—it would make much 80% emissions reduction by 2050 and a 42% reduction more sense to set that reduced level of energy production by 2020. Do the Government have any sympathy with as the central target, and then to implement measures to this proposed amendment—on first reading, it seems ensure that it is met in as green and cost-effective a way reasonable—if only in the interests of open government as possible. That is all the more the case given that and accountability? If not, why not? energy saving is more cost effective, which is a mantra that spokesmen, including the Minister, of all three People contacted me while the Bill was making its main parties have repeatedly asserted. way through the other place, asking that we strengthen the role that local authorities must play. We have heard Why, then, are the Government still refusing to undertake much about that today. I know that the Secretary of a proper cost-benefit assessment of energy demand? State and the ministerial team are aware of the local Obviously one can see that the big six operators and government offer on climate change, which has been power generators will be anxious about anything that signed by local authority leaders of all different political might impact on their future profits, but I think that the persuasions, and which supports the amendment to Government, who are far too committed to accommodating make climate change a core responsibility of every local the private sector, need to put the national interest first. authority through local carbon budgets. I appreciate Then there is the question of whether the measures in that Ministers might think that at odds with the localism the Bill will deliver what the Government purport to be credentials the coalition Government rightly set out, aiming at. The fundamental issue, on which the whole 1097 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1098 green deal hinges, is what the interest rates will be. them. What is needed, therefore, is an energy efficiency When that was put by me and other hon. Members to baseline to prevent properties with an energy performance the Secretary of State, he gave a studiously vague answer—a certificate rating of F or G, or whatever the Government discourse, but not an answer. However, without a low choose, from being re-let or marketed for rent after a interest rate, households will be paying a full, unsubsidised reasonable period—say, five years—in which the necessary rate for measures such as cavity-wall or loft insulation, energy-efficiency measures can be installed. which were previously available at no cost or little cost Lastly—and briefly—it is regrettable that the Home under successive supplier obligations. Without a low Energy Conservation Act 1995, or HECA, which was a interest rate, households will be worse off than they are Lib Dem private Member’s Bill, is being repealed rather now. I do not wish to be over-critical, because this than extended and toughened, because it delivered more should be a reasonably non-partisan debate, but it is savings in domestic fuel than the entire first phase of irresponsible for Ministers to present such a major Bill the energy efficiency commitment. to the House and yet remain silent on the intended rate of interest, when the success or otherwise of the entire Gregory Barker: I will address some of the right hon. Bill—certainly the green deal part of it—hinges on that Gentleman’s thoughtful comments in my wind-up, but point. let me put it on record that we are not repealing HECA. WWF has done a lot of research on the issue and Rather, it will form an important part of our strategy to reports that the cost of borrowing for the green deal is ensure coherent and joined-up implementation of the likely to be around 8% to 10% over the 25-year debt. Do green deal right across the country at the local authority Ministers agree? If that is the likely interest rate, the and community levels. effect of the Bill is likely to be fairly minimal without much greater financial support being offered. Market Mr Meacher: I am very pleased to hear that, and I research by the so-called Great British Refurb campaign will take that point away and look at it again. Obviously found last September that even if the interest rate were if the Minister says that, I accept that it is the case, and I no more than 6%, only 7% of households—one in 14— am also grateful for it, because HECA is an important would be likely to take up the green deal offer. That is Act. It never had great support because it was a private all the more significant when, as we all agree, we recall Member’s Bill. Local authorities did not have statutory that the people who need help most in energy saving are requirements but had to act voluntarily, so the legislation those in fuel-poor and vulnerable households, who was not as effective as it could be. However, if the unfortunately live in the most poorly insulated and Government are to take it over, supporting and energy-wasteful houses. strengthening it, that is excellent. Given the Government’s savage cuts to the Warm Front programme over the next two years and its Gregory Barker: The right hon. Gentleman makes discontinuance in 2013, it is perfectly clear that they are exactly the right point, and although the Secretary of not going to lift a finger to help with repayment charges State did not mention it in his opening remarks, that is a for fuel-poor households, so I ask this question. Realistically, new advance—which we are making today, on Second within the parameters of the Bill, is there any reason Reading—in strengthening the Bill. why energy suppliers should not be required to meet green deal repayments on behalf of fuel-poor households? Mr Meacher: I am very pleased to hear that. Clearly After all, as we know, such companies regularly report there is thinking going on in Government about how vast profits arising from adventitious rises in fuel prices. the Bill can be improved, which is what we all want. However, such a requirement would help them, because This is a good Bill, but there is a risk that it will not they would be able to spread the capital costs over the achieve its objectives, so it needs improvements. full length of the green deal finance arrangements and thereby be able to install far more packages in a much Many people have said this, but there are still too shorter time than under the carbon emissions reduction many unanswered questions about so many aspects of target. the Bill, which I do not think is acceptable for a Bill on Second Reading. The Secretary of State was generous Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Does my right in being cross-questioned by Members from all parts of hon. Friend agree that our experience of how the big the House, but the increment of information that he companies have treated the fuel poor—with pre-payment was able to provide was not really satisfactory. Given meters, for example—does not really set a good example that there is no cap on interest rates, how can the golden or give any hope for how they would look to the future? rule—that the expected financial savings will be greater than the cost—be guaranteed? Clearly it cannot. What Mr Meacher: The point about pre-payment meters is consumer assurances are there that the green deal advisers important, because, again, it is the poorest households—the will not be in cahoots with the green deal installers? most fuel-poor and vulnerable households—that are so Where is the major information campaign? I do not like often forced to use pre-payment meters. Their experience saying this, but the “Tell Sid” campaign for privatisation under the Bill would be questionable if it were left to in the 1980s was very effective. Where is the information private companies to decide how to deal with the issue. campaign—which only the Government can provide—to Again, that is an area where the Government need to support the green deal, rather than leaving it to big step in and offer support. business, which will put its own spin on it? In the worst A minimum energy efficiency standard is clearly needed scenario, there is always a risk of repeating the kind of in the private rented sector—a point that several hon. mis-selling scandal that we saw in the City in the 1990s. Members have made. There is little or no incentive for I want to be positive about the Bill. Members in all landlords to do very much to improve their properties, parts of the House acknowledge that this country badly because it is their tenants who pay the fuel bills, not needs a programme for green energy, albeit one that is 1099 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1100

[Mr Meacher] investment bank to have a role in helping to ensure that the necessary low-cost capital can be raised at scale. I cost-effective, with implementation measures that will am pleased that, as the Bill stands, it does not preclude ensure the objective—not hope for it on a wing and a a role for the green investment bank; at least, that is my prayer—and comprehensively address the energy saving understanding of it. requirements of fuel-poor and vulnerable households, Emissions reduction targets are clearly important, particularly in the private rented sector. The Bill needs a and I want to take this opportunity to urge the Treasury great deal more work in Committee. I hope that the again to accept the recommendation of the Climate Government Whip will not reject all the helpful and Change Committee for a 50% reduction from 1990 levels constructive amendments that are suggested, as so often by 2025. That is important on so many different levels, happens. I am glad that the Government appear to be but they have already been covered in a number of still thinking about the matter. If we make some significant speeches so I will not dwell on them. But, to return to changes, this could be—I stress: could be—a good Bill. my original point, irrespective of the targets that we set, they will be worth absolutely nothing unless we also 7.38 pm develop the mechanisms for delivering and achieving them. Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): A number of speakers have already said this, but it is worth repeating Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): Does my hon. Friend that energy efficiency has for so long been bizarrely agree that one of the new and interesting things about overlooked in the energy debate, despite the fact that, in the green deal is that it will work with human nature? terms of value of money, it is a no-brainer. I want to One of the big impediments to greening up homes, give just one example. Under the energy efficiency beside the cost, is a distrust of cowboy installers. If we commitment, E.ON claims to have installed measures put together a package, working with household names, that delivered energy savings equivalent to 2.3 Kingsnorth it will help to overcome that consumer distrust and give plants at a cost of £250 million, which is a fraction of us a much better chance of achieving the targets. what it would have cost to build those 2.3 plants—if, indeed, it were possible to build 2.3 plants. Zac Goldsmith: I agree with my hon. Friend 100%. There will always be debate about the best source of One of the great aspects of the green deal is that it low-carbon energy, but everyone across the House agrees overcomes the obvious barriers that exist without it. that the best plant of all is the one that we do not need The green deal is very much part of the delivery in to build because we have eliminated the demand for it. I meeting the targets, but so too is the next energy Bill. therefore strongly welcome the Bill, with its focus on Clearly, this is not the end of the energy story for this efficiency and its simplicity. The green deal will, very Government. simply, enable households and businesses to invest in Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman energy efficiency at no up-front cost, thereby removing mentioned how imperative the emissions reduction targets the biggest barrier to carbon refurbishment—the up-front are, and I entirely agree with him. The Committee on cost—by allowing them to repay the debt through savings. Climate Change has suggested this week that we should If the green deal works, it will not only reduce our be looking at more nuclear power, rather than at offshore dependence on imported foreign oil but insulate our wind power. Taken in context, that means that there will homes and businesses against rising energy prices. It be a shortage of energy supply that can be bridged only will also create opportunities on a large scale for green by gas, which would increase emissions levels rather jobs and growth. More than that, it is clear that an than reducing them. ambitious programme of retrofitting is a prerequisite for the UK to meet its carbon targets. That has been Zac Goldsmith: I am on record as being sceptical made very clear in the fourth carbon budget report of about the possibilities of nuclear power, partly because the Committee on Climate Change, which said that we it will take so long for us to generate the new capacity need a major energy efficiency programme to capture that it will not address our immediate concerns. Nor do what it believes could be a 74% reduction in emissions I believe it possible that we will see new nuclear power from our housing stock by 2030. plants being built under a regime that says “No subsidies The right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton for nuclear”. I might be wrong—a number of people in (Mr Meacher) and other Members have aired their the sector have told me that I am—but my hunch is that concern about how quickly the green deal will be taken we will see new nuclear power plants only if the definition up, how far it will go and how much demand there will of “subsidies” is stretched beyond all recognition. But be for it. The truth is that we have no idea, because it is a we will see; we will set the right framework and allow new scheme. There are steps that the Government could the market to decide. That is a party policy that I am take, however, to boost the programme. For example, I happy with, as long as we reach a clear definition of would strongly urge the Treasury to introduce proposals “subsidies”. for a stamp duty rebate for homes participating in the Returning to our attempts to meet the targets that I green deal. Given that retrofitting is always disruptive, hope will be accepted by the Treasury, one aspect of the it makes sense that the biggest incentive should be at the second energy Bill—I am not sure that it is legal for me point at which the home changes hands. I suspect that even to talk about it—is important for providing a DECC is already lobbying the Treasury on this, and I context for this Bill. That is the concept of “negawatts”, suggest that if the Treasury wants to avoid being seen as which effectively puts energy saved on a par with energy the cuckoo in the nest in relation to green policies—it generated. This is absolutely crucial, and represents a said that it would try to avoid that—it really ought to hugely exciting change. My understanding—although I take that idea very seriously, because it would have a will probably be corrected by the Minister in the wind- transformative impact. Another idea is for the green up—is that under the proposed reforms to the electricity 1101 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1102 market, companies will be allowed to pitch for energy repeal of the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995 in contracts and then to fulfil them by reducing energy its entirety. I would welcome an intervention from the use, rather that simply by providing more energy. That Minister to confirm that that entire clause will now in itself will transform things in this country on a very disappear and not go forward into Committee or beyond. exciting scale. It is useful to consider that future Bill Is that right? alongside the one that we are considering today. Even so, we are going to need more. Gregory Barker: I cannot comment on the detail, but If the Government are really serious about energy I can assure the hon. Gentleman, as I assured the right efficiency, they need to be willing to push for much hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher) higher standards in our everyday appliances. One example earlier, that we have looked at this matter in the round. that I discovered this morning is that we spend £2 billion Having listened to a number of experts in the field, we a year powering washing machines, tumble driers and think that we can breathe new life into HECA. It dishwashers, and a further £2.2 billion a year powering effectively became redundant under the previous fridges and freezers. If everyone in the UK upgraded Government, but we think that it could be revitalised their cold appliances to a recommended energy-saving and become an effective tool that could allow us to product, energy waste would be cut by two thirds. If we avoid imposing new regulation on local government. apply that across the board to all the appliances that we use, it is clear that this is one area in which we need Dr Whitehead: I thank the Minister for that clarification. direct Government intervention. We need higher levels When we are talking about energy efficiency in homes, of regulation, and we need to see standards improving we need to understand just how big the task ahead of us on a rolling basis. is. The SAP—standard assessment procedure—rating The Bill represents a significant first step in the right of UK homes went up considerably under the last direction, and I strongly support it. I congratulate the Labour Government. To be precise, the average SAP Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate rating, which measures the energy efficiency of homes, Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and went up by 11 points between 1996 and 2010—from an Battle (Gregory Barker) on his involvement in it. It is average of 42 up to 53. Over the last five years, the SAP clearly part of a big journey, however, and there are rate increase went up one a half times as fast as in the many more steps to come. previous five years and the five years before that. That shows how measures such as Warm Front and CERT— carbon emissions reduction target—which are going to 7.46 pm disappear when the green deal comes in, were having Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): I am some success in ensuring that homes were more energy- pleased to follow the hon. Member for Richmond Park efficient. (Zac Goldsmith), who has made a thoughtful contribution In order to get anywhere near the sort of targets that to the debate. He has underlined a number of the issues hon. Members have suggested that the Government that I want to raise in connection with the Bill and the should consider introducing in an amendment to align green deal. It is extremely important that the green deal energy efficiency with climate change targets—which I should work well, so it must be as good as it possibly hope will happen in Committee—we need to move the can be when the Bill completes its passage through SAP ratings much further up over the next few years, Parliament. That is important because of the ambition perhaps to 70 or more on average at band C by the end that we must have for energy efficiency, whether through of the decade. That means making progress getting on “negawatt” arrangements or other forms of energy for twice as fast as we have over the last few years. That management and energy saving. We must have the best is the sort of ambition that the Bill needs to encompass. and most energy-efficient housing stock that we can My concern—hon. Members have already mentioned a bring about. That is an essential part of our climate number of concerns—is that it remains unclear whether change action, and our action on energy management that ambition can be achieved under the current mechanism, and the achievement of the CO2 emissions targets set despite the claims for the efficacy of the green deal. out by the Committee on Climate Change. Achieving that will involve an ambitious programme, Mark Tami: Other Members have mentioned the and as a mechanism, the green deal is certainly ambitious. problem of poorer homes, and private landlords are a Indeed, the Minister himself said last summer that by particular problem, because they have no vested interest 2050, as a result of the green deal, houses would not in doing anything about them. I am sure we have all had have to be visited more than once to assess their energy people coming to our surgeries with horrific stories efficiency. That is the kind of ambition that we need for about windows that do not fit, damp all over the place the green deal; we need to make it work as well as it can. and so forth—yet the landlord often does not care at My worry is that as matters stand, many things are all. missing from that ambition. That is what we need to concentrate on in Committee, so that when the Bill is Dr Whitehead: Indeed. I welcome what I understand enacted, the import of the 50-odd pieces of secondary to be a change of heart by the Government about the legislation that have yet to be written, let alone enacted, extent to which compulsion can be used to get landlords will be much clearer. We shall also need to ensure that to improve their properties. Sanctions on landlords with that secondary legislation provides the mechanisms to F and G-rated properties have been mentioned; we make the green deal work well. could argue about when those sanctions might be I was pleased to hear this afternoon that among other introduced, but compulsion to prevent landlords from things, the Government are not now intending to proceed letting properties below certain minimum energy standards with clause 105, which at the moment proposes the is right. The standards are well below the sort of average 1103 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1104

[Dr Whitehead] and it proved to be a levy as defined by the Office for National Statistics, it would have to be found under the rating that we have talked about this afternoon, but present cap. That means either that the Government they are nevertheless minimum standards. If that is will have to go slow on renewable obligations and indeed a change of heart reflected in this part of the reduce the amount of renewable energy, or that the Bill, I welcome it. ECO will prove to be so small as to make it impossible I am sure that the detailed provisions affecting landlords to produce the sort of mechanism that many people can be sorted out effectively in Committee—but first we hoped for—one for adding value to the green deal, have to find the landlords. It was not a good sign that getting on with the hard-to-treat properties, dealing when this Bill was being discussed, another Department with people in fuel poverty and homes off the grid that helpfully removed the idea of having a landlords register need extra assistance to make the green deal work, and as the responsibility of local government. Without that, so forth. it will be more difficult to find the landlords who should Unless we get the mechanisms right and have the carry out these arrangements. I trust that the Minister right finance in the system—and, I would suggest, will have a word with his counterpart in the Department among other things, unless the ECO works properly—the for Communities and Local Government and perhaps green deal will not work. I am the last person who think again about that particularly destructive act. would want to see the green deal fall. Because a great The problem of finance has been mentioned. It is deal of work has to be done to make our country as essential to making the green deal work. It is not just a energy-efficient as possible, the green deal has to work. matter of suggesting that the market will sort the finances The task of making it work properly is the task of the out one way or another and that competitive interest Committee. I hope the Government will be generous in rates will be charged. We can be fairly clear about how taking on board those ideas, which will make the green finance for the green deal as it stands, without changes, deal work as well as it can to bring our energy efficiency will turn out, because that is how the market works in targets as close to realisation as possible. respect of the sort of return that can be expected at different interest rates. The rate may well be around 9%, 7.58 pm or perhaps a bit less. If we look at what can be got under the golden rule with finance at 9%, we find that it Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): I turns out to be very little in terms of improvements for congratulate the hon. Member for Southampton, Test properties to which the green deal and the golden rule (Dr Whitehead) on his typically thoughtful speech, apply. Loft cavity wall insulation and draft-proofing are which I thought made an important contribution to the probably the only things that work out at that sort of debate and was delivered in a helpful tone. I say to the level. With interest rates at 7%, we get draft-proofing, Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate some glazing, some internal wall insulation. With interest Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and rates at 5%, we may get loft cavity wall insulation, Battle (Gregory Barker) that I greatly welcome the glazing and a condensing boiler. If the green deal comes general thrust of the Bill. I believe it will be a major in at 9%, hardly any of the properties that need that sort advance, provided we get it right, but there is a lot to do of level of serious work—glazing, condensing boilers, to help it become a better Bill. I hope that Ministers will perhaps microgeneration—will be touched by the approach Committee with that thought in mind. I think mechanism. We must have a better mechanism for that, in general, the House wants the Bill to succeed and making the green deal work. considers it important, and we should be able to tap into the House’s collective knowledge of an issue that is The energy company obligation exists as a back-up so important to the future well-being of our country. for fuel poverty and hard-to-treat properties. Hon. Members Knowing the Minister as I do, I am sure that that will be might have noticed that with interest rates at about 5% his approach. or so, solid wall insulation, which is present in about 7 million homes up and down the country, will not be Gregory Barker: My hon. and very wise Friend is touched. The ECO programme might touch it and absolutely right. We want to try to capture some of the might have a substantial hand in dealing with those in positive cross-party engagement that ensured that the fuel poverty. Perhaps they should have their green deal Climate Change Act 2008 was scrutinised and improved underwritten by the ECO so that they can join in the during its passage. We will seek to draw on the wisdom benefits that other people get. that exists on both sides of the House to improve this If we are thinking about how the ECO might underwrite Bill, and we will be open-minded. We are extremely the green deal, it is important to understand whether ambitious for the Bill, and we do not want to rule out the ECO will exist to any great extent as a financial good ideas just because they were not invented in our mechanism. What greatly concerns me—I hope the Department. Committee will be able to look at the problem in much greater detail—is that as matters stand, the DECC has Mr Binley: I am sure that the whole House will signed up to a Treasury-based cap on levy-based welcome the Minister’s generous remarks, and I hope arrangements. Under the present financial arrangements— that we can set the stage for a consensual approach to for the spending round up to 2015—the DECC has this important matter. I was going to say something signed up to a cap on renewable obligations, feed-in tariffs about limp lettuce leaves, but in view of my desire for and warm homes discount. That cap is set at £11.8 billion that consensual approach, I shall refrain from doing so. over the whole period, but there is also an annual cap. Mr Deputy Speaker—the change is slightly off-putting, The Treasury says that any new initiatives that come but it is good to see you in the Chair—we all know that in the form of a levy must be financed within that cap. If improvements in energy efficiency are a vital part of the the Department wished to undertake an ECO programme wider picture of our energy policy, for a number of 1105 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1106 reasons. They are central to the success of our economy, Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith). I agree and to the well-being of the environment that we want that we need to use fiscal drivers such as council tax our children, grandchildren, and those who come even rebates and changes in stamp duty. Although the green later to enjoy. They are extremely important to the jobs deal is tremendously exciting, it must be sold carefully market. However, they are even more important to and honestly, and the marketing process must contain consumers, particularly those who are less privileged incentives to change the minds of the many people who than many other people in the country. I believe that the may be suspicious about phrases such as “Everyone’s a Government are genuinely willing to ensure that the winner”. Whenever I wanted extra money to spend at benefits of the Bill spread to the sections of the community the local fairground where the guy cried out “Everyone’s that we know need help because they suffer from fuel a winner”, my grandmother warned me to be wary of poverty, and I believe that those people would be particularly catchpenny deals. I do not want that sort of marketing grateful to the Government if we managed to pull this to be part of this process; the deal must be marketed in off. a sensible, mature and honest way. The Bill provides a welcome opportunity for us to consider the wider question of the direction of energy Nicola Blackwood: When deciding on a marketing policy, which chapter 4 of part 1 and chapters 1 and 2 of strategy, should we not think about how to attract those part 2 refer to in no uncertain terms. Issues such as who are most vulnerable, most likely to be subject to future generation and supply, low carbon innovation fuel poverty and, in general, least likely to access the and investment and energy security are vital to the support available to them? overall picture, and I was pleased to learn that the Minister envisages a review and report in the coming Mr Binley: That is an important point, and I note years that will deal with those vital issues more widely. from one or two nods from Opposition Members that I think we all agree that a low-carbon energy future there is agreement on it across the House. If we are to offers the strong economic opportunities to which I attract those who are at the bottom of the poverty have referred, but energy can be saved only if there is chain, our marketing must be subtle. It worries me that energy to save. The whole process of generation has the House often does not think about the management become even more delicate and important as a result of of the projects suggested by the Executive. We have seen happenings on the other side of the world, and the that in the context of support for small business, and I future of energy policy is now a very pertinent matter to should hate the same thing to happen to an idea as good which we need to devote serious attention. I do not as the green deal. think that either this or the last Government have My time is quickly coming to an end. Before it does, embarked on that process to the extent that would let me say a little more about the need to reduce our satisfy me and, I believe, a number of other Members. carbon need. That is particularly relevant to what has Low-carbon energy provides a tremendous opportunity happened on the other side of the world, which has for us to create new jobs, improve energy security and changed the way in which some countries think about reduce fuel poverty, and making existing energy supply the production of energy. I therefore want to refer go further is a positive concept that we would all briefly to the vital role carbon capture and storage will support. The green deal programme is one of most play in ensuring we have the energy supply that we need startling and innovative policies that I have seen during in order to be able to save energy. The Government my time in the House. As I have said, there are ways in claim to recognise its importance, yet the levels of which we can improve it, but it is a gem of an idea on uncertainty that have beset progress of late are concerning. which we can build, and which will have a massive I welcome the Minister’s recognition that CCS is the impact on the people whom we serve. I hope that the only home-grown energy source technology that can rest of the House sees the Bill in the same way. I know help to reduce significantly CO2 emissions from fossil that the Builders Merchants Federation will be interested fuel power stations—indeed, by as much as 90%. I also in it, but the federation is only one organisation that recognise that the Bill as it stands does not deal with will be interested in the possibilities for job creation, let this issue, but there are serious discussions going on alone improvement of our housing stock and help for about the future supply of power in this country. Doubt those who are less fortunate than many of us in this has been created as a result of the Government giving country. £1 billion for the first test model of a CCS facility but then saying we are doing away with the remaining I am delighted that there will be a focus on the sectors £9 billion and we are going to deal with this from a to which I have referred, and I am delighted that those general tax perspective. That has worried the marketplace sectors will help to provide the growth that we need to and could hold back CCS development. I urge my ensure the success of the whole Budget strategy. The Front-Bench colleagues to take this on board. There are Bill is at the heart of that Budget strategy, which is one 300 years of energy requirement under our feet and we of the wider considerations that we need to bear in have an opportunity to help coal communities. If we do mind in Committee and on Report. However, it poses not make progress with CCS, others will and we will some difficulties that I think worth identifying from the miss massive opportunities. perspective of a friendly supporter. I find its tone more than a little prescriptive, and I feel that it could have been more flexible at this stage, not least because so 8.11 pm much of the detail is yet to be supplied. I hope that my Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I am hon. Friend the Minister will take that point on board. grateful to have the opportunity to speak in this important I believe that we should make the green deal more debate. Let me say straight away that I welcome the Bill attractive to domestic and commercial energy consumers. as I think it has enormous potential. The green deal In that context, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the could play a hugely important role in ensuring that we 1107 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1108 reduce greenhouse gas emissions from our homes and up by a far-reaching delivery system that will roll out take serious steps towards meeting our climate change the green deal in a much more comprehensive manner. targets. The potential economic impacts could be almost It is not enough simply to state that a number of homes as important as the environmental ones. At a time of will be treated, since it is clearly far easier to make economic crisis, one of the fastest ways of getting minimum energy efficiency improvements to 14 million people back to work and stabilising the economy is homes than it is to deliver the whole-house, comprehensive precisely through a major programme of investment in retrofits, including micro-energy generation measures, energy efficiency and renewable energies. Retrofitting that are needed. That is why we need to have stated in all our buildings would create well over 100,000 jobs the Bill not just the number of households to be treated over the next 10 years. If we were to have the right but, crucially, the minimum level of emissions reduction policy incentives, we could create many thousands more to be achieved. jobs in the renewables industries. Maximising the take-up of the green deal involves The Bill also has a crucial role to play in tackling the looking again both at the finance mechanism itself and, economic and health scourge of fuel poverty. Fuel crucially, the way it is delivered. Given that we know the poverty overall has risen steadily since 2004, and according most effective agents of change are likely to be local to the latest Government figures, dating back to 2007, it community-based organisations working alongside local now affects about 4.5 million UK households. National authorities, the Bill needs to be clearer about the role of Energy Action—the national fuel poverty charity— local authorities, and more explicit about the important estimates that the figure is in fact closer to 5.4 million role of co-ops and mutuals, such as Brighton Energy households. Co-op in my constituency. I believe that a national, We can bandy figures about, but they tell only part of publicly funded, street-by-street, comprehensive energy the story. My constituency has one of the largest private- efficiency improvement scheme would deliver the greatest rented sectors in the UK, and many of my constituents and quickest financial and CO2 savings, while also have shared with me their experiences of living in cold, providing the largest boost to the development of a damp rented property, and are happy for me to highlight green economy. The effectiveness of such schemes has them here today. Jack writes: been seen at a local level across the country, driven by local authorities. Indeed, it was at the heart of the “I am currently living in a flat with no central heating and “green new deal” that a number of Greens and others rotted wooden single glazed windows. Needless to say over winter my flatmate and I were horribly cold, and we were both very ill put together some years back. That was a more ambitious due to the weather.” forerunner of the Government’s green deal and other proposals here. Jules writes: “You know those thermal blankets paramedics use? Even with The Local Government Association has called for central heating, I had two of those on my bed, two duvets, four much greater clarity on the role that local authorities blankets, and I still had to wear jeans and hoodie to bed, and I could play within the green deal, and the New Local was still shivering in my sleep.” Government Network argues for social landlords to It is beyond doubt, therefore, that there is both a have a prominent role in co-ordinating green deal measures great need for improved household energy efficiency across their estates on an area-wide basis, given that and a great opportunity to address fuel poverty, but in pilots suggest that costs can be reduced by as much as order to realise the full potential of the green deal, some 20% per home when whole streets are improved collectively significant changes to the Bill will be needed. My overall at the same time. That could be facilitated by ensuring concern is that I am not convinced that the measures that the energy company obligation fund is paid into an and mechanisms proposed in the Bill will be ambitious open pot that all green deal providers, including local enough to meet the scale of the challenge we face. The authorities and registered social landlords, can bid into, Minister has talked both in the press today and at a in order to ensure that the green deal delivers on fuel seminar in my constituency yesterday about the aspiration poverty. for 14 million households to be insulated in the first phase I am very glad to hear that the Home Energy of the green deal. I support that aspiration, of course, Conservation Act 1995 measures will now not be repealed, but it is hard to see how it will be achieved through the and I hope we will link that to calls for local carbon current proposals, and that is made even harder by the budgets. More than 40 council leaders have called for fact that so much of the detail of the green deal is, councils to be given a duty to set a carbon budget for unfortunately, being left to secondary legislation. their area, and to meet it through locally agreed and However, as the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) appropriate measures, with the support of central has suggested, what we do know is that retrofitting Government where needed. These two things should be 14 million homes by 2020 amounts to over 1.7 million going hand in hand. homes a year, or about 145,000 homes a month, or Local authorities have a unique role to play. They are about 4,800 homes a day. That will be a massive step a trusted brand, and they know where their hard-to-heat change, which will require an extraordinary ramping up homes are and where many of those in fuel poverty live. of the supply chain, of the training of engineers and so Their knowledge, experience and reputation will be key forth. Even the leading programme in Germany is only to the success of the policy, and I think the Bill needs to achieving 100,000 retrofits a year, and it is doing so by be clearer about their central role. offering publicly subsidised interest rates of 2.65%. The Even with local authorities and local community green deal before us today is based on market interest groups driving forward the delivery of the green deal, rates, which will be a lot less attractive. we will need to do much more to incentivise people to Therefore, although it is very welcome that Ministers take it up. Part of the answer lies in getting the financial are sounding ambitious, those ambitions need first to package right. I support proposals that would include be stated firmly in the Bill and, secondly, to be backed looking at ways of incentivising that through reductions 1109 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1110 in stamp duty, and as the right hon. Member for Oldham given to Parliament on the progress made, not only on West and Royton (Mr Meacher) said, it is crucial to get the number of homes that have been dealt with, but on the interest rates right. The success of a home efficiency the carbon saving. improvements programme in Germany has shown the I am concerned that there will be no separation value of using publicly subsidised lending. With between the assessor and the supplier. As such, there Government backing, the KfW development bank raises will have to be a strong resolution capacity for those triple A rated bonds for its energy efficiency household who have disputes and grievances. I wish to see something loan programme. The Government then subsidise those similar to a green ombudsman put in place, as that loans, which are offered to the consumer at a rate of would help to keep consumer confidence high—we saw 2.65%. With the support of some further grants and what happened in Australia when confidence fell. regulation, Germany is achieving 100,000 retrofits of Local authorities have been mentioned, and I particularly residential homes each year. The current understanding wish to know the Government’s view on including is that green deal providers in the UK will only offer the housing associations and some of the larger estates, loans at market interest rates, which prompts this question: possibly the Duchy of Cornwall, the Grosvenor estate where exactly is the “deal” in the green deal? and many others, in the Bill’s arrangements. Would they To meet the ambitions stated by the Minister today of have the capacity to become green deal providers? The treating 14 million homes by 2020 it is clear that the economies of scale that would, thus, be brought in Government have to go well beyond what is being would, of course, have to benefit individual consumers. offered and achieved elsewhere. They have to introduce The idea of introducing schemes so that individual something like 0% interest rates, linking this to the green roads, villages, neighbourhoods or districts are dealt investment bank. Unless we cut the cost of the up-front with in that way—in a fairly consistent way—is an capital for the green deal, we risk limiting the measures interesting one. that can be implemented under the golden rule. Heather Wheeler: The hon. Lady raises an interesting As I have said, fuel poverty is a crucial issue when it point. I recall that when I was serving on Wandsworth comes to ensuring that the energy company obligation council 20-odd years ago we looked at regenerating works. I am deeply concerned that there is not enough areas such as the Battersea triangle. I remember writing money in the pot for the ECO and I am also concerned out a cheque for £4 million for one year. We took over that it has two functions. On the one hand, we are and regenerated entire streets, and the economies of asking for it to address those in fuel poverty and, on the scale involved were superb. When I think of what other hand, we are asking it to address those in hard-to-heat Battersea is like now compared with what it was like homes. People in hard-to-heat homes may be able to 20-odd years ago, I realise that she is hitting on an pay, so if we provide them with funding from the ECO interesting point. Perhaps the Minister might be able to pot, we are using money that could help people in fuel wrap this up later. poverty in order to subsidise residents who are able to pay. Such an approach does not make much sense. We Tessa Munt: I hope so. also need to be mindful of the fact that the ECO will be funded through a levy on all bills, as that risks pushing Gregory Barker: I can do that now. I am very happy more people into fuel poverty than it takes out of it. If to say that we want to make the green deal as permissive we use a regressive mechanism, such as a levy on all as possible. These sorts of ideas, which encourage housing bills, we run a real risk of it putting more people into associations and other community groups to come together poverty. to be green deal providers, alongside the big boys, The warm home discount is welcome but, again, demonstrate exactly the sort of innovative approach there is a problem, because it is paid for in the same that we want to see. way—it is a levy on the bills of all consumers—and it tackles only the 50% of the fuel poor who are of Tessa Munt: I thank the Minister for that answer. pensionable age. There are plenty of fuel poor people I wish to return to the issue of fuel poverty. I cannot who are not of pensionable age. So we need to make say how strongly I feel about the fact that the Government many changes to the Bill, but I repeat that overall it is must instruct the companies or the regulator, or whomsoever very helpful. I hope that we will be able to improve it else we are able to instruct, to ensure that we operate a and that we really will have the kind of policy that we rising block tariff, rather than a falling block tariff. That can be proud of in this country. would be the most green measure we could implement. Leaving things as they are would be a disincentive. It is bonkers not to make energy cheaper for the first units 8.21 pm and more expensive as people use more. This measure would be so green and would provide such an incentive Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): It is an honour to follow to use less energy that I make a plea for the regulator or the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). whomsoever is able to deal with that to be instructed to She made many of the points that I would wish to do so. make, so I shall briefly address the issues of particular The other issue that I wish to return to is that of the concern to my constituents. pre-payment meters, as it is very unfair to penalise the I welcome the green deal, in particular the potential less well-off through higher charges for pay-as-you-use for green jobs, the energy-saving capacity measures, the gas and electricity. I accept that those with arrears must potential savings for those who most need the money pay them off, but they should not be penalised after that and the emphasis on the benefit to individuals. The first by having to pay more for their power. thing I wish to focus on is that we should be setting Will the Minister clarify something on the issues of targets on an annual basis. An annual report should be fuel poverty and ill health? 1111 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1112

Andrew George: Before my hon. Friend moves on, 8.30 pm will she take one brief intervention? Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): The Bill is debated Tessa Munt: Of course. under the shadow of the report published this Monday by the independent Committee on Climate Change. The Andrew George: My hon. Friend has mentioned the committee has been clear and it is authoritative: in manner in which the utility companies charge for their order to achieve our 2050 target of at least 80% carbon power. One further disincentive for those on low income reductions, we must adopt a 2025 target of at least 50% is the advantage that is given to those who can pay their emissions reductions. That is the shadow that hangs bills by direct debit, as those who live on the margins of over the debate today. The Business Secretary has clearly credit clearly cannot take advantage of the various rejected that advice and his Liberal colleague, the Secretary deals available to those who have no difficulty in that of State for Energy and Climate Change, would, one regard. If we are to wrap up a set of policies that help hopes, wish to accept it. That is the split at the heart of the less well-off, I would hope that this issue would be the Government’s decision making on where to go with addressed as part of it. energy policy. This is entitled the Energy Bill, but it is really a Tessa Munt: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, financial services Bill drawn up to enable energy supply and I ask the Minister to add that suggestion to my list. companies to act as long-term finance providers for I assume that it is Government policy, but I am energy-efficiency measures with repayment coming from unable to see where it is explicitly stated that all new the anticipated savings on future energy bills. I have homes and buildings should be carbon neutral and that changed the speech that I brought into the Chamber that might in some way be reinforced by building regulations. this afternoon, partly because of the excellent speeches I would like to be given some clarification on that point. made by my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, I also believe that it is crucial for assessors to have a Test (Dr Whitehead) and the hon. Members for Brighton, duty to ensure the best for the individual customer. I am Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) and for Richmond Park (Zac talking not about the best financial deal or the best deal Goldsmith). I thought they made excellent contributions for the provider, but about the best deal for the individual and addressed very serious points. consumer. We should not be dependent on any one It was, however, the hon. Member for Northampton organisation to carry out those assessments, be it B&Q, South (Mr Binley), with whom I do not normally find Marks & Spencer or anyone else; consumers must have myself in considerable agreement, who struck me as some protection and various options. injecting a note of realism into the debate. We must I would like the Minister to address one particular consider carefully what the Government expect people issue. Park homes have been mentioned and in my in the country to do. It is generally accepted that on constituency there are quite a lot of mobile homes as both sides of the House we would like the Bill to be well as 11-month homes, which are homes, perhaps on effective. We would like to see it achieve its objectives in the coast, where people are able to live for only 11 months energy efficiency and energy savings. We all know the of the year. Do those buildings have any different McKinsey cost curve and it is clear that it is far better to arrangements? I am concerned about Airey homes and start at the left hand side and achieve the savings in the prefab homes, which are definitely not energy-efficient negative cost element of the curve before we go up to types of building in the first place. Are there special forestry, carbon capture and storage and so on at ¤60 per arrangements for them? tonne. I am keen that there should be a tougher stance on Of course, we wish the Bill to be successful but we private landlords. Private homes, certainly in my must have a note of realism about the likelihood of constituency, are often occupied by people who are people taking on the loans that are on offer. Under the unable to have social housing because there is so little of deal, a householder would engage an independent energy it. About 2,600 people are waiting for social housing in assessor to advise on the level of savings that could be my constituency and as they have little hope of obtaining made by efficiency improvements. The householder would a social home of any sort, they move into the private then take out a loan by entering into a contract with an rented sector. I would prefer it if a private landlord energy company that paid for a provider—it could be could not reasonably refuse any request to be part of the energy company itself—to fit those energy-saving the scheme as a huge group of tenants would be affected. measures. We know that the energy companies have said I was interested to hear about appliances, the need to that they have serious reservations about the effect that replace many of them and whether that could be done that would have on the rented sector. My hon. Friend more efficiently. I wonder whether the Government the Member for Southampton, Test made some very might consider some sort of scrappage scheme. apposite remarks in relation to that sector. As I understand it, the Secretary of State has the Are we being realistic in expecting citizens to take out ability to override offshore wind leases if requested by loans to make anticipated savings on future bills which oil and gas companies. I want a clause that prevents that are, by their very nature, uncertain? Let us look at from happening or, if it is going to happen, provides a DECC’s own projections. It has calculated the green clear compensation mechanism for early termination. deal financial costs as being cheaper than a “market Otherwise, we will move away from having any investor personal loan”, but they could be as high as 11%. My security. hon. Friend showed a range of interest rates between Finally, I ask the Government to accept the 9% and 5% and the differential that one might achieve recommendations of the Committee on Climate Change. for those rates, but why would a householder take out a I hope that this scheme will achieve much more than loan at 9% to make the changes when it would be any previous scheme has before. cheaper to put it on their mortgage over 20 or 25 years? 1113 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1114

Nicola Blackwood: I share the commitment to creating The hon. Member for South Suffolk (Mr Yeo), the the best incentives possible within the Bill but I think Chair of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, the hon. Gentleman is rather underselling the citizens made the point forcefully when he talked about the of this country. Citizens in Oxford West and Abingdon changes to the solar PV scheme. The important thing is are certainly committed to tackling climate change and not the changes themselves. It is understandable why I feel that they will undertake some of the financial those changes were made. The Government did not commitments suggested within the Bill—indeed, many wish to see businesses profiting from the scheme that of them already have. Amazing examples have been set was intended primarily to be a domestic or small-scale by community groups such as Low Carbon West Oxford. scheme. That is not the issue. The issue is that they changed the goalposts and destroyed the confidence Barry Gardiner: The virtue that the hon. Lady’s party that business investors had in that area. That is what the usually claims for itself is that it adopts a hard-nosed Government are doing. business approach to things, so I offer her a hard-nosed business approach. If a householder were offered a deal The Bill calls itself an Energy Bill. I am afraid that at 9% over a period of 25 years, why would they take does not sit well with a coherent energy policy. If this that up if they could take out exactly the same capital were an Energy Bill, it would address energy much more amount needed to fit the elements required to achieve in terms of electricity market reforms—again, those the savings that the policy is designed to achieve but at were referred to by the Chairman of the Select Committee. the rate they are getting on their mortgage, which might We should be looking at what sort of structure there is be 4%, 5% or 6%? The simple point is that householders to the energy market in this country. We have a vertical can already make the changes we are discussing at a integration of generator and supplier that is destroying lower cost than is offered in the green deal that her the attempts to bring renewables into the mix, yet the Government propose. four pillars of the Government’s proposals leave that market intact. It is not a reform of the electricity Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): market; it is tinkering around the edges. Has my hon. Friend seen the YouGov poll that was What is needed is a genuine reform of that market. released today in which only 7% of the people polled That is what the Government are not doing. What is said they would take up the green deal if the interest needed is a move to a pooled supply where it can be seen rate was set at 6% or more? that companies are selling in a transparent and liquid Barry Gardiner: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I market. At present it is an illiquid market which lacks want to assure the Minister and all hon. Members transparency. That is why the big six are able to rip present that I have no intention of talking the measures people off. The Government must do much more to down. What I want is realism about their likelihood of claim that the Bill is an Energy Bill. They must have an success. Polls are polls—they are what people say about energy policy, and the Bill shows that they do not. They their future action, but I am not trying to present such are tinkering. Nero fiddled while Rome burned. The evidence. I am simply asking hon. Members to look at Government are fiddling while the planet does. what people are doing at the moment. They have the opportunity now to take out money on their mortgages and do exactly what the green deal is offering but at a 8.43 pm lower rate of interest, and very few people are doing that. Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) I do not want to talk this down, but I do want realism. (Con): Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me One has to look at this issue in the context of the to speak on Second Reading of the Energy Bill. I Government’s overall policies. Of course, it is right that declare an interest, as I retain shares in a communications we should look at efficiency savings and energy reduction, company that specialises in regeneration and development. but look at the cuts to the Carbon Trust: they do not sit easily with a Government policy of rigid focus on Over the past 15 years I have seen first-hand how the energy reduction. One of the premier schemes, which green agenda has risen up the political agenda and how has been in place for a long time, is being cut. Look at developers have reacted to increasing environmental the carbon reduction commitment—a very good scheme demands. Whereas most businesses are keen to keep that was initiated a couple of years ago to incentivise their costs down and avoid regulation, I have noticed businesses to lower their carbon emissions, which was that the moves to improve environmental code levels welcomed by the CBI and the Institute of Directors. A have come about only because politicians have challenged billion-pound saving was going to be made and then the development industry to meet these improvements. recycled into those businesses. It was revenue neutral. To encourage private inward investment in this new What did the Government do? They came in and sector and for developers to include windmills, solar said, “Thanks very much. We’ll have that billion pounds. photovoltaics and other energy-efficient schemes, it is We won’t recycle it into business.” They did two things: important that we do not send a confused set of messages they destroyed the incentives that the businesses had in to potential investors. the first place to reduce their carbon footprint, and they As an aside, I recently received correspondence from also destroyed the trust that business had in the Government a developer in Plymouth who is concerned that the not changing the goalposts. One of fundamentals that decision to reduce the higher feed-in tariff from 29.3p we have heard throughout our debate today is the to 8.5p by 1 August this year could make his business importance of maintaining a stable investment framework model unviable and waste his original investment. That going forward. I appeal to the Government to think would be an enormous shame. I have written about this about everything they said in opposition about stable to the Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member fiscal regimes and the need for certainty for business. for Wealden (Charles Hendry), and look forward to Their actions in government have gone against that. receiving his reply. 1115 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1116

[Oliver Colvile] The MOD and the Navy are well placed to benefit from sharing physical assets in Plymouth: low-carbon The Stern report, which the previous Government energy supplies in our dockyard and the presence of commissioned, clearly set out the global implications of service industries, such as Babcock International and collectively taking no action. The increasing incidence Serco. We need to explore a new commercial relationship of floods and storms in some of the poorer parts of the between the naval estate and potential wealth creators. world will have a significant impact on helping third-world Those companies and their supply chains, which are countries. I welcome the measures set out in the Bill, largely made up of small and medium-sized enterprises, which will help us to play our part in reducing CO2 will benefit from future enterprise zone status in Devonport emissions by saving energy. Specifically, I welcome the and elsewhere in Devon and Cornwall. I believe that it creation of a new manufacturing industry.My constituency will help us to grow defence-related and civilian businesses of Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport is very dependent and marine and renewable energy to the joint benefit of on the public sector and needs to use this initiative to the country’s future military and energy security. help rebalance its economy. As one of the major global The Minister of State will be aware of our increasingly players in marine scientific research, it is well placed to unstable and insecure world, with growing threats of help deliver the Government’s green deal by becoming a climate change, terrorism and economic instability, and manufacturing centre for renewable products. we need only to remember what happened when Russia In the 1990s, Cambridge university set up a series of decided that it was going to hold its next-door neighbours research companies that specialised in genetics. The to ransom, but to build greater economic, social and companies were then sold to the likes of SmithKline environmental security, as well as commercial and trade and Glaxo to develop pharmaceutical products that helped advantage, we need to ensure that the relevant Departments to build the biotechnology industry we have today. work together effectively. In order to realise those I have argued for some time that Plymouth needs to opportunities, I hope that my hon. Friends will be able develop similar clusters of renewables industries within to work with me and other interested parties to establish our travel-to-work area, which will help us to turn the the UK’s first marine energy park in Plymouth and the tide in this low-skills and low-wage economy where 38% south-west as soon as possible. of the work force are dependent on the public sector. I am delighted that my hon. Friend the Minister has Our university, with its fine reputation for marine science agreed to come to Plymouth later this year to see for research, should be the catalyst for this economic himself how we can deliver that economic regeneration. regeneration. However, to achieve this, we need the I firmly believe that together we can create a series of Government’s help across a number of Departments. green manufacturing businesses in the south-west and Later this summer, my hon. Friends in the Ministry help to regenerate our economies in order to improve of Defence will publish the results of the base-porting our skills. review, which I hope will identify parts of the naval estate, especially in South Yard, that are not needed for 8.50 pm defence and could be used to realise Plymouth’s full Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ economic potential. Last week, Defence Ministers Co-op): I, like many other Members on both sides of announced that Plymouth’s seven Type 23 frigates would the House, welcome large elements of the Bill and support not be transferred to Portsmouth for the foreseeable its general aims. As the hon. Member for Bracknell future. That is excellent news for a naval garrison city (Dr Lee) said, the challenges we face in dealing with that prides itself on the role it has played in the defence energy policy cannot be safely confined to a five-year of our country. The Royal Navy’s role in that part of the term, and much of the Bill builds on the work that my south-west is a key ingredient in creating this cluster of right hon. Friends the Members for Doncaster North marine industries. It is part of a commercially focused (Edward Miliband) and for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan agenda, working with the private sector, Plymouth city Ruddock) did in the previous Government. I am pleased council, Cornwall council and academic partners to to see some of that being built on and developed in the create a dynamic programme that can bring ocean Bill and in other aspects that the current ministerial renewable energy to the world. team is taking forward, and I hope that that helps to Our vision in that part of the south-west is to exploit bring some cross-party support to elements of it. domestic and international markets for offshore wind, There is huge potential in the green deal, which is a wave and tidal energy. That will enhance trade and significant part of the Bill, and we want it to work. The industry policy and the low-carbon skills and jobs aims are laudable, and they have been lauded by Ministers. agenda and will help us to address the urgent need for There is the potential not just for energy efficiency, for climate change mitigation and adaptation. We need to wider environmental reasons, but for a positive impact develop products that can be sold not only in our on poorer households, in particular, including people domestic and European markets, but to China, India with dependants, long-term conditions and a greater and emerging economies. That is something that we need for domestic heating. Many live in properties, such should most certainly concentrate on in a big way. as those in my constituency and in other parts of the We also need joined-up thinking between the Department country, that by age or design are inherently inefficient. of Energy and Climate Change, the Department for There is huge potential, and that is why, as many Business, Innovation and Skills and the Treasury, and contributors have said today, we want to see the green we must ensure that we give an important role to the deal work. green investment bank to create businesses that will be I hope that the Minister will acknowledge, however, worth hundreds of millions of pounds in coming decades that some significant gaps still need to be filled, including and help the UK maintain is current commercial and those on how the green deal will end up working, and, intellectual property advantage. as many others have said, on the crucial issue of the 1117 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1118 interest rate. Its impact on what can be managed within can least afford it. That problem needs to be addressed. the deal has caused concern to many within and outside I am sure that there will be an opportunity to do so in the House. I hope that Ministers can provide us with Committee, and perhaps appropriate amendments will further enlightenment on that, if not this evening then be tabled. in Committee, so that when we return to the Bill we are It would be wrong not to refer to the role that able to reflect on proposed legislation that is more Consumer Focus has played. That is not covered directly detailed and comprehensive than that which is currently in the Bill, nor is it the responsibility of the Ministers in before us. charge. Nevertheless, it is a cause of regret and concern I have listened carefully to today’s contributions, and to me and to many others that the decision to abolish to the Secretary of State’s responses to earlier interventions. Consumer Focus and roll its functions into citizens My constituency includes many properties in which advice bureaux might leave us without the specialised cavity wall and loft insulation are unsuitable, because knowledge that has benefited consumers by providing they do not have lofts and their walls are too old for expert and helpful guidance. insulation. That is the case in many others places, too, The Bill has laudable aims. The green deal is a laudable and that is why the detail of the proposals is so significant. policy and a mechanism that many Labour Members I hope the fact that the Bill has been through the hope will work. However, I have to say to Government other place without that detail will encourage Ministers Members, following their earlier remarks, that it is not to find out how the gaps can be filled, and I hope that partisan to point out that detail is still required, work is the work can be done in the bipartisan way that the still to be done, and confidence is still to be infused. I Bill’s origins and aims naturally dictate. That is why we hope that, as the hon. Member for Northampton South can support the aims of the Bill and the green deal, but (Mr Binley) said, Ministers will consider the important we do not as yet have the confidence safely to proclaim issues highlighted by Opposition Front Benchers and that they will work. There is an obligation on Ministers others, which need to be addressed in the attitude that to help us to reach that position. I am sure that I speak the Government take to the Committee stage so that for most, if not all, Members in saying that we want to when we come to debate the Bill again—it has already be in that position on this very important matter. As the been through the other place—it will be improved, it Chair of the Select Committee, on which I was privileged will be more comprehensive, and it will help to give to serve briefly at the start of this Parliament, made Members on both sides of the House the confidence to clear, the need for certainty also has an impact on some be able to support its most significant measures. of the investment decisions that will help to make the There is an energy challenge in this country, and I most of the potential of the green deal. have congratulated Ministers before on being adept at As several hon. Members have said, there are problems facing up to that. It is a shared challenge that crosses relating to energy companies’ tariffs. The Bill includes a party boundaries, and it is in the interests of all our requirement that companies must provide information constituents that we address it. I hope that we can do on their bills about the cheapest tariffs, if that is not that by constructively filling in some of the missing done voluntarily. I am not sure that goes far enough in detail in Committee. As has been said, the Opposition dealing with an issue that frequently comes to my will find it difficult to support the measures without attention in my surgeries when I see constituents who that detail. I hope that Ministers will be constructive in have been frustrated and confused by what they are told responding to this debate and in Committee. by energy companies. They are baffled by what their bills mean, having been told by suppliers that they would be saving money but end up paying much more. 9pm There are dozens of different tariffs for each energy supplier, and social tariffs are probably the least known Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): I am about among those who need them most. Research pleased to speak in this debate because I believe that carried out by Consumer Focus shows that many consumers this issue is extremely important for our country. It is not only do not understand the detail of their energy perhaps the most important issue that we face. In the bills but do not necessarily trust the energy companies midst of dealing with a difficult economic situation, to provide them with the most accurate information. restoring strength to our society and empowering local people, we also face the threat of climate change In my constituency, we are fortunate to have Lightburn and the need to move away from our dependence on Elderly Assistance Project, or LEAP, which provides fossil fuels and towards being a greener, more energy- help and support to elderly people, including on energy efficient country. The UK has rightly taken the lead on efficiency. It does a superb job in being able to get into this issue, and the Bill is a welcome step in the right the detail of what tariffs people are on and whether they direction. are the most appropriate ones for them. I am sure that other organisations in other parts of the country perform I am also pleased to speak in this debate because my a similar role and are similarly useful and helpful. constituency has great potential as an energy hub. Major However, they will inevitably only ever touch the tip of national companies such as National Grid, Calor Gas, the iceberg of people who need and will benefit from Wolseley and AGA, and a range of smaller companies that advice and that degree of specialised knowledge. It such as Encraft, are located around my constituency, would be much better if we were in a position where providing employment and a potential source of growth. some of the vagueness and evasiveness were removed The Bill marks a significant step forward, but no one from the information that energy suppliers provide to can expect it to be the golden bullet. It can only be part their consumers, which often leads to mistrust and of a wider agenda to create a greener energy infrastructure. confusion, and to people who have the lowest level of It is important that we have the strongest Bill possible financial literacy paying the highest tariffs when they to build on in the years ahead. 1119 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1120

[Chris White] criticism of it—are provisions relating to the regulation of carbon emissions, the creation of a green investment I wish to discuss fuel poverty in particular. In a bank and the security of energy supply, which I think is written parliamentary question, the Department of Energy immensely important and on which a number of Members and Climate Change calculated that about 6,500 households have touched. I see energy security, along with food in Warwick and Leamington—about 14% of security, as being the defining issue over the next decade. households—were living in fuel poverty. Across the The decisions that we take in this Parliament will affect west midlands, it is calculated that about 65,000 homes generations to come, so we have to get them right. may suffer from excessive cold, which costs the NHS It is my understanding that, as the Secretary of State about £12 million a year. outlined earlier, a second energy Bill is planned for the I am pleased that the Bill will create a framework to autumn, to provide the missing pieces of that important tackle that problem. The energy company obligation jigsaw. In light of that assurance, I must confess that I will provide a means to support the poorest and most am extremely optimistic about the Government’s energy vulnerable households in the country, which would not ambitions, and thus very supportive of the Bill. However, be able to make their homes more efficient without help I would not want to see the time scales in the Bill slip from energy companies. The green deal, which will help any further. Energy security must not become a political millions of households across the country, is a welcome football, because it is far more important than any development, but we need to ensure that no one is left party politics. behind. The energy company obligation will ensure that we bring every home possible into the 21st century. I wish to focus my thoughts on the attempts in the Moreover, the most energy-inefficient households are Bill to improve energy efficiency. Such improvements often the poorest. It is in those homes that the greatest must be made if we are to meet our international and impact on carbon emissions can be made, and it is right domestic climate change targets—after all, energy efficiency for the Government to focus on them. can play a major role in cutting energy use and emissions of harmful gases. Alongside our requirements to meet I believe that the Bill should be more ambitious. If we international targets, we must tackle once and for all the are to see real progress on climate change and green tragic and unnecessary problem of fuel poverty here in energy production, we need to ensure that it is carried our own towns and cities, and we must also bear in out at local level. People across my constituency are mind the often vast financial cost of energy to ordinary proud of the efforts that we have made to increase households. Together, meeting legal targets, tackling recycling. Many people want more to be done to make fuel poverty and reducing families’ energy bills make up our community greener and more energy-efficient. About the triangle of criteria by which we must scrutinise the 80% of UK emissions are generated by local activity, Bill and judge its success. from heating our homes to getting to work. This is an opportunity for councils to make a difference, co-ordinate In discussing a new approach to energy efficiency, it is local activity and give local people a chance to set worth briefly reviewing previous policies and schemes. priorities. The decent homes programme and the Warm Front scheme are two examples. I strongly believe that lessons Like many of my colleagues, I believe in localism. I can be learned from those programmes, particularly believe that the Bill is an opportunity to set ambitious Warm Front. I have recently been actively engaged with targets for local authorities and enable them to focus on Warm Front through the provider of the scheme, Eaga, one of the biggest challenges that our country has ever on behalf of local constituents. faced. A scheme that allowed local communities, through consultation, to put together their own budgets, and As hon. Members will be well aware, Warm Front bound them to reductions that they believed to be offers grants to enable certain households in fuel poverty sustainable, would be an excellent way forward, and to install energy efficiency improvements such as home could result in considerable reductions in carbon emissions. and loft insulation and heating measures. Unfortunately, I urge Ministers, who I know have had discussions with in my constituents’ case, applying to Warm Front to get several organisations on this subject, to look at these a new boiler to replace one that was broken took over proposals in more detail, and to consider amendments 13 months. The paperwork was burdensome, and the in Committee. We need to take action swiftly, and I inefficiency and bureaucracy of the system beggared believe that the Bill provides the perfect opportunity to belief at times. Spending on the Warm Front scheme rally people and local authorities. and its predecessors has totalled £2.6 billion between 2000 and 2011, yet at national level too many homes, particularly in vulnerable communities, remain poorly 9.4 pm heated and insulated. I urge the ministerial team to Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): It is a real pleasure ensure that future schemes under the new proposals are to contribute to today’s Second Reading debate. I have accessible to more people, easier to follow and less a long-held interest in energy-related matters, and I bureaucratic in nature. Even those simple changes would, strongly believe that the Bill contains some really positive in my opinion, encourage households to take advantage measures that, together, will lay the foundations for a of such Government-led measures. fairer, more efficient and greener energy market across For the time being, despite huge investment in various the country. schemes, the simple truth is that too many properties Although wide-ranging initiatives covering energy continue to achieve very poor energy efficiency efficiency and the empowerment of the Coal Authority ratings. We must embark upon a new pathway, and the are present in the Bill, it is clear that it is only the first Bill provides us with a perfect opportunity to do so legislative part of the Government’s promised energy through the green deal. To coin a phrase, it is a game reform programme. Missing from the Bill—this is no changer. 1121 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1122

The green deal clearly has a mammoth task ahead. I The ministerial team are to be congratulated on am excited about the realistic tone, and the practical adopting an open-door approach in explaining their and flexible nature, of the policy. The current lack of proposals and listening to parliamentarians’ views and investment in efficiency priorities is not only the result concerns. I very much hope that that approach continues of poorly administrated Government schemes such as in Committee, because although the Government’s ambition Warm Front, but because too many households have and strategy are spot on, we need to look closely at been put off by the time and money that it takes to some of the provisions to establish whether they need benefit from implementing energy efficiency measures. strengthening so that the Bill achieves its objectives. When tapping into the green deal, customers can take It is appropriate for the Government to concentrate advantage of up-front money to make responsible energy much of their efforts on domestic buildings, because efficiency improvements. Repayments will be attached 24% of the UK’s carbon dioxide emissions come from to energy bills at the property, rather than the individual the domestic building stock. The flagship green deal is a having an obligation to pay the money back or pass the bold attempt to improve the nation’s housing stock, and cost of improvement on to a future owner of the giving it every opportunity to succeed is vital. property. That is an important part of the Bill, because it is increasingly clear that the younger generations However, there are a variety of issues to which I move more frequently and more widely than generations would be grateful if the Minister could give further before them. That simple measure will in effect encourage consideration. The CBI, among other organisations, participation in the green deal through the flexible has suggested that there is a need for incentives to transfer of responsibility for repayments to whoever encourage take-up of the green deal. I am aware that benefits from efficiency savings. Although I am very the Chancellor has indicated that he will look at that. much in support of the principle, I look forward to Incentives could include changes to stamp duty, VAT more detail as the Bill develops. reductions on some works, and council tax rebates. I am conscious of the time, and that other hon. I would also be grateful if the Minister could consider Members want to speak, but I shall add another note of whether the green deal should include renewables and caution, which my hon. Friend the Member for microgeneration, both of which have important roles to Northampton South (Mr Binley) mentioned earlier. play in the move towards a low-carbon economy. It is There should be further incentivisation measures in the also important to consider accepting the warm homes green deal. As the CBI has said, there is concern that amendment, because the production of an overall plan the policy, which is a truly exciting one, could become a and strategy kept regularly under review would generate lame duck if people are not truly engaged to take it up. confidence in the green deal and encourage its uptake. We must not let that happen, because the consequences The private rented sector requires specific consideration. are too important. Buildings in this sector are more likely to be pre-1919 We should not understate the importance of making properties, and thus there is a limit to the energy efficiency a breakthrough in improving energy efficiency in this improvements that can be made. However, there are country. It is therefore imperative for the Bill to win other significant challenges in encouraging take-up of cross-party support and progress successfully. I have the green deal in the private rented sector. First, there is been heartened by many of the comments made on the problem that the initial cost of the works will be both sides of the House this evening. If progress is borne by the landlord, with the benefits of reduced fuel made, the framework to establish the green deal will be bills going to the tenants. Secondly, with many tenancies in place, and we can be far more optimistic about being short term in nature, investment is understandably meeting our emissions targets, reducing energy bills, unattractive to tenants. Thirdly, there is the worry that tackling fuel poverty and contributing to a greener and in the past a non-regulatory approach has invariably fairer energy market. I hope that Members on both not worked. We need to consider how the green deal sits sides of the House support those objectives. alongside existing tenancy laws and whether legislation is required to encourage landlords to take it up. When David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con) rose— the Bill was being considered in the other place, the Government stated that the position would be reviewed Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con) rose— after 12 months so that it could be decided whether further legislation was needed requiring landlords to Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Two take up the green deal. I welcome the further proposals hon. Members are yet to speak. Perhaps they could that the Secretary of State has brought forward today. divide the time left between themselves. The winding-up I believe that the warm homes amendment has merit, speeches will begin at 9.30 pm. and that consideration should be given to imposing the 2016 deadline for providing minimum energy efficiency 9.13 pm standards in the private rented sector, after which landlords will not be able to rent out the worst-performing properties. Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): The Government are The warm homes amendment would strengthen the Bill to be commended for introducing ambitious legislation, by helping to provide a minimum standard for the for thinking outside the box and for highlighting the private rented sector, and it would help to provide more importance of realising the potential for Britain to be a certainty to businesses expected to deliver the green world leader in the move towards a low-carbon economy. deal. It is supported by the Federation for Small Businesses The Bill contains a wide variety of measures that can and the Federation of Master Builders, and would help Britain in that aim, including the promotion of provide a clear direction for businesses and help to drive smart meters and the move towards greater transparency the take-up of low-carbon skills across the construction for energy companies. sector. 1123 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1124

[Peter Aldous] wind industry in the UK is rapidly expanding and when companies are looking to make investment decisions. Although the green deal applies to non-domestic The Energy Bill is an ideal vehicle to tackle the problem. buildings, research carried out by surveyors Cyril Sweett The Government have the ambition to be the greenest has revealed that the nature of many buildings, such as Government ever. I believe that this goal can be achieved schools, offices, industrial units and retail warehouses is if they take on board the helpful suggestions made by such that not enough savings will be made to pay for right hon. and hon. Members from all parts of the improvements, and that thus they will not qualify for House during the debate this afternoon and this evening. the green deal. Although the green deal will therefore largely apply to domestic buildings, it is important that the UK’s non-domestic buildings are not overlooked as 9.21 pm they seek to reduce emissions and energy bills. I therefore David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): It was not urge Ministers to consider carefully the proposal put clear to me this evening whether I would make the forward by the British Property Federation and the UK remarks that I want to make, because it occurred to me Green Building Council, which have highlighted an that they might be more apposite to the next energy Bill anomaly concerning public sector and private sector than this one. However, I want to make a few points buildings: the former are obliged to provide display that perhaps have not yet been made. energy certificates, while the latter are not. The BPF First, on the context and the legacy with which this and the GBC believe that a voluntary approach to legislation is kicking off, we have heard about two dates take-up in the private sector will not work and are of this evening. We have heard about 2050, which is the the opinion that it is vital for the Government to date by which we must reduce our carbon emissions by provide mandatory DECs. I urge the Government to 80%, and 2020, which is the date by which renewables consider their representations. must account for 15% of electricity generation. However, It is important that the Bill is framed in such a way as we have heard less about another date that is equally to provide opportunities for small business to play a full important, which is 2017 or thereabouts, which is the role in the roll-out of both the green deal and the energy date by which we will start having power cuts unless we company obligation, and to ensure that they are not put in place measures to stop that happening. squeezed out by energy suppliers and large companies. I have two other pieces of legacy data for the House. There are significant job opportunities for small businesses, Currently, 0.5% of our total energy production comes ranging from carrying out the energy surveys to installing from renewables. It is also true that 7% of electricity many of the energy saving works. There is a need for generation comes from renewables, but 0.5% is the both training and the building up of capacity within the measure of what we have to achieve over the next sector in the lead-up to the introduction of the green 40 years to meet that 80% reduction. Roughly speaking, deal in the latter part of 2012, while with the ECO there even if we achieve a 40% reduction in energy use through is the need to avoid a monopoly situation. There is also such excellent measures as this Bill, we will need to scale a need to encourage banks to provide funding for small up renewables by a factor of about 50. That is absolutely and medium-sized enterprises, so that they can get massive. involved in this major opportunity that will help to kick-start the construction sector. With the ECO, it is Although we have talked about fuel poverty, another important to improve access to the market for independent thing that has not been mentioned in this debate is the suppliers, and consideration should be given to earmarking fact that energy prices in this country are among the a proportion of the obligation for non-obligated suppliers. highest in western Europe. Our starting point is that our industries and our people pay more for fuel than others. Finally, I would be grateful if in Committee the In particular, those in competitor countries such as Government could consider addressing a situation that France have had cheap, plentiful nuclear power for is handicapping the offshore wind sector, which has an many years, and they pay less than us. Why does that important role to play in my constituency. Currently a matter? It matters because we are trying to rebalance clause exists in the leases and agreements for lease for the economy towards manufacturing, and a unit of offshore wind projects that allows a switch from offshore GDP generated from manufacturing requires more energy wind to oil and gas to take place should new oil or gas than a unit of GDP generated from services. That is a reserves be found. In that situation, no compensation is further challenge that we have to face. payable to wind developers. The existence of the clause continues to cause major problems for offshore wind Broadly speaking, Government policy has two thrusts projects that are seeking finance, with the result that to it, one of which is energy reduction, which is dealt banks view such projects as higher risk than necessary. with in this Bill through the green deal. Our target is to This comes at a time when both industries are seeking reduce total energy use by some 40%, and that can be to develop areas of the seabed that are close to each achieved—the Royal Academy of Engineering is certainly other or even overlap. Efforts to work together to of that view. Part of that will involve the measures that prevent problems will be meaningless unless a fair and have been discussed at some length this evening, but clear framework is established in situations where part of it will involve, for example, smart meters and co-existence is impossible. There is an urgent need to smart grids, and all that goes with that. ensure that the matter is resolved quickly, through the The other part of our strategy to meet the challenges creation of an early termination mechanism, which that I have spoken about is the fact that we are about to would detail how compensation would be paid to the manage the market. Why are we managing the market? wind developer if a lease is terminated. I urge the We are doing so because if the market were left alone, Government to take action on the issue now. It has been we would end up using gas. That much is clear. Using dragging on for some years and it is important that it gas would not be disastrous for our climate change should now be resolved, at a time when the offshore objectives, given that so much energy comes from coal 1125 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1126 and oil, and that gas is 50% better in terms of carbon 40% reduction in energy use, but there is no realistic emissions, but that is nothing like enough to meet our alternative to nuclear and if we are to meet the 2017 statutory targets. That is why the strategy on the mixture deadline, it is important that we move faster, because of renewables, nuclear and carbon capture is important. 2017 will be here a lot sooner than 2020 or 2050. One of the oddest things about the whole energy debate is that we talk about nuclear and renewables as though they are competing with each other, when we clearly 9.30 pm need both. If anything, they are both competing with Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): fossil fuels. The default solution if we react slowly is One thing has been proved in the course of this excellent that we will have to use gas, because that can be obtained debate—that the Government’s green ambitions are relatively quickly. lofty, but that the green reality is far less certain. Just I have a couple of observations on the Government’s today, we read that the Energy Secretary cannot convince strategy. One relates to urgency. We have heard numbers his right hon. Friend the Business Secretary to support relating to how quickly we need to implement the green the fourth carbon budget and Ministers cannot explain deal, but I do not believe that the 2017 deadline is being why the Climate Change Act 2008 is included in the list treated with sufficient urgency. I was at a meeting of burdens on businesses that are currently being considered recently with some nuclear supply chain people in my for the bonfire. Ministers are in danger of presiding constituency, and I was disappointed to hear that they over a great green betrayal. We on the Opposition did not believe that any effective nuclear new build Benches want to help them to meet their green ambitions. would start for at least another year, although time was The message we hear consistently and very loudly ticking away. An ex-colleague of mine in Shell once told from consumers, industry, green groups and trade unions me that the chief executive officers of the utility companies is that there is no clarity or consistency of policy. Green were quite sanguine about the fact that all this was jobs are being lost; green business is moving overseas; taking so long, because they had nothing to lose from green non-governmental organisations are becoming our inertia. When the time comes, what they have to increasingly alarmed and frustrated. As my hon. Friend offer will cost even more. It is important that the the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) eloquently Government should take the initiative, rather than leaving said, Ministers are failing to provide investor certainty this to the utilities, because it would be a perfectly viable from one week to the next, let alone over the next strategy for a utility CEO to take their time over this. couple of years. Another aspect of the strategy is cost. We have not The threat of climate change and fuel poverty grows said a great deal about the differential costs of the greater. When we look back in a decade or more at the different kinds of energy.Energy has to be environmentally actions of the Energy Secretary and his Ministers, we sustainable, but it also has to be economically sustainable. do not want to see guilty men who had a golden I leave the House with the thought that the brilliant opportunity to secure our green future. It is not us alone technical achievement of the Thanet wind farm, which that are saying this. The CBI, for example, has said that is a tremendous thing, is going to cost £1 billion in the green deal subsidies over its lifetime. It does not produce that “has clear potential to help unlock…emissions reductions…But much electricity, and its actual cost is therefore very without significant action from government to develop an attractive high indeed. Some of the hon. Members who have proposition for businesses and households, this potential is unlikely spoken about fuel poverty today might like to reflect on to be realised.” the fact that a starting point for fuel poverty is when our As it stands, this has all the dangers of being a deeply power costs more than that of other people in the first disappointing Bill. It could be so much more effective, place. but warm words will not deliver warm homes. A third element of our strategy is our approach to Let me deal with some of the important contributions technology. Possibly the most impressive technological made by Members of all parties. I hope that they will breakthrough in energy in the past 30 years is horizontal forgive me if I fail to do their arguments justice in the directional drilling, which, combined with a fracture short time available. The theme most constantly revisited technology, is enabling shale gas and coal gas to be throughout the debate was the distinct lack of detail in discovered in quantities that would be of material use to the Bill. As the hon. Member for South Suffolk (Mr Yeo) the US and the UK, but I am concerned that their use is mentioned, it is a great concept, but as my right hon. not forming part of our approach. Perhaps a wider Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton point on technology is that I believe that we should be a (Mr Meacher) said, the Secretary of State did not fast follower, rather than being at the leading edge—or provide a satisfactory increment of information in his perhaps the bleeding edge, as one might say. Carbon responses to the many interventions he took. capture and storage was mentioned earlier. Of course it The Bill is a stab in the dark. Although the Government is a good technology, but it is unproven, and there are first published it no fewer than five months ago, none of other technologies out there that we need to adopt more the secondary legislation has been outlined, which leaves rapidly. so many questions unanswered. This all leads me to the subject of nuclear. There is no Many Members asked about the incentives to be possibility that we could come close to meeting our made available to home owners and tenants to encourage 2050 commitment without a massive upgrading of take-up. The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac renewables and nuclear. In fact, they go together. Goldsmith) referred to a possible stamp duty rebate, Renewables are, by their nature, somewhat intermittent, which was raised in the press as something that might while nuclear has a very high base-load. The two can be crop up in the Budget, while the hon. Member for put together quite well. I support the Bill. It is innovative, Northampton South (Mr Binley) referred to a possible it is radical and it is right. I hope that it will result in a council tax rebate. 1127 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1128

[Luciana Berger] Many Members also raised the issue of fairness in tackling fuel poverty. I do not have time to go into as A number of Members raised serious concerns about much detail as my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke- the maximum interest rates on the green deal. As my on-Trent North and my right hon. Friend the Member hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North for Oldham West and Royton, who made an innovative (Joan Walley) said, this will be absolutely critical. I suggestion about how green deal payments might be referred in an intervention to research and polling done met for the 5.5 million households in the UK in fuel by YouGov, showing that more than 40% of households poverty, but this is an important issue that urgently do not believe that the green deal is an attractive proposition needs to be addressed. for them, and if the interest rate is above 6%, only 7% of According to Ministers and others on the Government people polled said that they would take up the green Benches, the green deal will be a game-changer for fuel deal. We need to reflect carefully on that as we go into poverty—we heard that phrase a number of times—but Committee. that too is not yet evident in the Bill. The new energy Another big question is who is going to come into the company obligation, which underpins the green deal, home to assess the situation and to what level those will be targeted at hard-to-treat homes, but currently no people will be trained. The Secretary of State said that amount has been ring-fenced for the purpose. It is we can get lots of quotes for the green deal. That worrying that there are no guarantees that the ECO will sounds fantastic, but who is going to pay for the different be adequate to deal with the scale of the problem, not assessments of the home? least in the light of the concern raised by my hon. A number of Members, including the hon. Members Friend the Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) for Bracknell (Dr Lee) and for Angus (Mr Weir), referred about the inclusion of the ECO in the Treasury’s cap on to the opportunities for small and medium-sized enterprises levies, which the Minister did nothing to assuage. to take part in the green deal. This is crucial because The hon. Member for Bracknell rightly drew attention SMEs, co-operatives, charities and social enterprises to the need for more investment in renewables, referring must have equal opportunities to participate in the specifically to marine energy. We know from the Pew scheme, but the Bill does not provide the detail on that. Environment Group’s report, which was released only a I am also keen to know what guarantees exist that few weeks ago and mentioned by my hon. Friend the millions will not be saddled with debts that they cannot Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright), that in the past afford. year the UK has fallen from third in the world to Many Members asked a crucial question: after all the 13th in terms of investment. Just before the last election work is done, by how much will our national emissions the Labour Government published a marine energy be reduced? We tabled an amendment on that very issue action plan, which is currently gathering dust on a shelf in the House of Lords, which was rejected. I sincerely at the Department of Energy and Climate Change. I hope that the Government will revisit it in Committee. urge the current Government to resuscitate it and make the necessary investment in more renewables, so that we My hon. Friend the Member for Brent North asked can take advantage of the £100 billion that is expected what might happen if a new householder or tenant to be invested next year alone in renewables across the arrived and the energy savings arrangement changed as globe. a result. The Secretary of State made a joke about a Brazilian wife, but my hon. Friend had asked a serious In his eloquent contribution, my hon. Friend the Member question that needs to be considered. [Interruption.] It for Hartlepool spoke of the experience of businesses in was a Brazilian husband or wife. his constituency and their concerns about the Government having to move quickly. I have mentioned the £100 million Ministers should already have the answers to the that will be spent next year, and he referred to the figure many questions that have been asked, rather than deferring of $2.3 trillion, which is the amount that will be spent them to more than 50 pieces of delegated secondary on renewable energies over the next decade. Businesses legislation. The Secretary of State referred to a watertight in his constituency are asking for a clear vision from legal framework. We want and need that framework, Government, but they are not currently getting one, but it does not yet exist. and I urge the Government to respond. Another key theme that emerged was the poor deal Several Members on both sides of the House talked for the consumer represented by the Bill in its current about the private rented sector, and there are a number form. Several Members, including the hon. Member for of relevant clauses in the Bill. Some 40% of tenants in Northampton South, expressed concerns about consumer the private rented sector live in F and G energy rated rights, and my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen homes. We welcome the move to bring forward the and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) spoke eloquently timeline, but we hope we might revise that even further about the confusion felt by his constituents about their in Committee. energy bills and the implications of the forthcoming abolition of consumer support. If the Bill is not A report last week by Friends of the Earth gave a strengthened in that regard, the green deal has the damning verdict. It talked about the great green betrayal potential to be a poor deal for the consumer. Consumer and conducted an examination in forensic detail. The Focus has warned that it could erode consumer protections report makes clear who it believes is to blame for what is rather than enhancing them, and the consumer watchdog happening. It talks about Which? has said that Ministers have yet to provide “Liberal Democrats, who have clearly failed to use their influence assurances that consumers will be protected from mis-selling inside the Coalition to ensure a better performance on the and dodgy cross-selling, that they will have access to environment.” redress should something go wrong, and that they will This is not the greenest Government; it does not yet not be expected to pay hidden charges. A lack of clarity come close. With 27% of all UK emissions coming from on those issues will reduce take-up of the green deal. homes, the Bill is not yet adequate for the task. 1129 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1130

It is essential that the Secretary of State gets the green housing stock, which for too long has languished at the deal right. He said it was the first such deal in the world, very bottom of the European energy-efficiency league but a similar scheme was set up in Australia. Unfortunately, table, will be transformed. Finally, government will have it was a complete disaster. After 160,000 homes were a game-changing policy framework that is commensurate fitted with substandard insulation, four people died and with the huge twin challenges of improving our housing the scheme was scrapped. There is also a scheme in stock and eradicating fuel poverty. Germany where the take-up is 100,000 a year, but it has That said, I am very conscious of the fact that with a Government-supported interest rate, which we are not this Bill we are putting in place a gigantic project that going to get under the current Bill. Such issues must be will stretch way beyond this Parliament and, we hope, revisited in Committee. the next too. The green deal framework is designed to In spirit and in principle, we want to support the Bill. continue well into the 2020s and beyond, so I do not The hon. Member for Winchester (Mr Brine) tried to pretend for a moment that this Bill will be the last word rewrite history earlier; it was, of course, the Labour on the issue or that we have anticipated every eventuality. Government who began to implement a pay-as-you-save We will continue to consider new incentives and levers scheme. In its current form, the Bill could end up being to drive the programme forward as the market develops a wasted opportunity, but we will take the Minister up and we reach towards that very ambitious level of on his assurances that he will work across the Chamber retrofitting 14 million homes by 2020 and 26 million to make it better. We will not vote against it tonight as homes by 2030. But the long-term direction is clear: we support its aim, and we will work hard and positively there will be no more short-term initiatives and no more to make it better. In Committee, we will strive to convince stop-start schemes. Business certainty created by the Ministers to give consumers the protections they deserve, green deal will be essential to unlocking the billions in to give British businesses the confidence they require, private sector investment that will be key to this programme’s and to build into the Bill the backbone that it so success. desperately lacks. I am keenly aware that responsible political consensus on the green deal is particularly desirable. I very much 9.43 pm hope that, given the shared climate objectives among the parties, we can all show the same resolve and The Minister of State, Department of Energy and constructive cross-party engagement that was the hallmark Climate Change (Gregory Barker): I am delighted to of the Climate Change Act 2008. I listened carefully to hear from the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree the thoughtful speeches made by hon. Members on (Luciana Berger) that the Opposition will not vote both sides of the House today, and I would be happy to against the Bill, but I will hold her to blame if my hon. engage in an informal evidence-based session before the Friends now start to disappear from the Chamber during House rises for the Whitsun recess. I noted not only my winding-up speech. She has just delivered a very the shared ambition that Members on both sides of the polished debut from the Dispatch Box. I think that Chamber have for the Bill, but the detailed concerns winding up is a much harder job than opening, but she and questions that have been raised. I hope to address made a very good fist of it. many of these issues now. Where I am unable to do so, I I do not agree with the hon. Lady’s rather gloomy hope to deal with them more seriously, and constructively, scepticism about this important Bill, but she was spot in Committee. on in one respect: this has been an excellent debate, with Broadly speaking, six main themes have emerged powerful and substantive contributions from both sides from today’s debate, and I hope to hear more about of the Chamber. In saying that, I gloss over the opening them in that informal session. The first was the scope of speech of the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. the coalition’s ambition, the scale and pace of delivery, Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier), and how we measure success. The second was the energy whose contribution was out of tune with the debate we company obligation—the ECO—and the challenge of subsequently had. I was genuinely pleased by the way in ensuring that we deal effectively with fuel poverty. Thirdly, which Members across the Chamber engaged in scrutinising hon. Members rightly urged robust consumer protection— these radical and far-reaching proposals, and I have to that is absolutely essential. Fourthly, hon. Members say it is telling to compare and contrast the shadow strongly argued the case for more ways to involve local Secretary of State’s speech with the master-class communities and local councils, and, importantly, demonstration by the leader of the Green party, the challenged us on the provisions to tackle recalcitrant hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), landlords in the private rented sector. Fifthly, we debated of what can be achieved in an effective and intelligent the enormous potential of the green deal to drive green critique from the Opposition Benches. jobs and green growth, and to create new investment This Bill is only the first step in the new Government’s opportunities. Finally, we must not overlook the importance plans to reshape and renew our energy economy, but it of enhancing our national energy security, as well as is certainly a very clear and substantial demonstration moving our economy beyond dependence on foreign oil of the coalition’s determination to be “the greenest and expensive imported fossil fuels. Government ever”. These measures will be vital tools in Let me deal briefly with each of those themes in turn. helping to meet our stretching carbon reduction targets Many questions were asked on the fundamental point and they underpin our determination to stop dangerous of the scale of our ambition by, among others, the hon. global warming. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch, my hon. The Bill, however, is no tree hugger’s charter, nor is it Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) a narrow response to the science of climate change; it and the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan can provide practical help to families and money-saving Walley), with whom I have served for many years on the improvements to every home in Britain. The British Environmental Audit Committee. The issue was also 1131 Energy Bill [Lords]10 MAY 2011 Energy Bill [Lords] 1132

[Gregory Barker] industry has got involved on this important issue. Voices such as Kingfisher and the Builders Merchants Federation addressed in particularly informative contributions from are essential in helping us to design the green deal so the right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton that big companies and local small and medium-sized (Mr Meacher) and the hon. Member for Brent North enterprises can get involved while at the same time (Barry Gardiner). I am pleased to respond to them by offering strong consumer protection. saying that I can announce two important developments. The question of involving communities and tackling First, my Department will publish a formal aim—that the private rented sector was raised by my hon. Friend the is, on the face of the Bill—to take reasonable steps to Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White), improve the energy efficiency of the English residential the hon. Members for Stoke-on-Trent North, for Hartlepool sector by 2020 so that emissions from that sector follow (Mr Wright) and for Brighton, Pavilion, the right hon. a trajectory that is consistent with the UK carbon Member for Oldham West and Royton and the hon. budgets. Secondly, I will table an amendment that commits Member for Southampton, Test. We will take robust to an annual report to Parliament on the specific action on the face of the Bill in respect of the private contribution of the green deal and the ECO, within the rented sector. Before we came to the House today, we context of contributing to the carbon budgets set out by listened to various voices from a number of stakeholders the Climate Change Act that have so concerned Members on the subject of the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995 from all parties in the course of the debate. and we have decided to retain parts of HECA, to Many Members raised the issue of the ECO and fuel breathe new life into it and to ensure that it becomes poverty. Fuel poverty is key to the essence of the Bill part of our way of ensuring uniform delivery of the and we will certainly be judged on its success. Those green deal across Britain. We will table those amendments Members included the hon. Member for Hackney South in Committee. and Shoreditch and my hon. Friend the Member for The question of green growth and investment was Bracknell (Dr Lee), who is a member of the Select mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester Committee on Energy and Climate Change as well as of (Mr Brine), who made a very powerful speech arguing the Conservative friends of Bangladesh and so has a that the green deal is a great carrot, rather than a stick, particular interest in international climate change issues. that will throw up a huge number of business opportunities. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead), He also rightly tested us on the need for more training with his usual expertise, focused on the ECO and the opportunities, which we are taking very seriously. The role it plays in the potential levies cap. The hon. Member hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) also asked whether for Brighton, Pavilion had some very vivid cases of fuel we would be letting in small businesses. My hon. Friend poverty from her constituency that will be reflected the Member for Winchester pointed out that this could across the land, as did the hon. Member for Hackney mean 100,000 jobs or more. It is important that we do South and Shoreditch. not just capture the carbon savings, but that we really Let me be clear that the ECO is designed to work capture the industrial opportunities that this big market hand in glove with the green deal to help the most push will afford us. vulnerable households and hard-to-treat properties. The ECO will deliver heating systems and insulation in the Barry Gardiner: Will the Minister give way? most effective way to help low-income vulnerable households heat their homes affordably and it will be Gregory Barker: I will not, I am afraid, because there tightly targeted. The ECO and the warm home discount is very little time. provide a range of support mechanisms for low-income On energy security and moving beyond oil dependence, vulnerable households. I have heard the calls for more the Chairman of the Select Committee made a very information and so I commit today to bring forward important contribution at the beginning of the debate details on the ECO before we go into Committee. pointing out the need for stability in electricity markets On the subject of robust consumer protection, we and for investors and about the role for nuclear and the heard the shadow Secretary of State’s questions about important role of renewables. That will be delivered who will be the regulator and whether we could have through the next stage of our redesign and renewal of more detail. The right hon. Member for Oldham West the sector in energy market reform. Those points were and Royton wanted to know more about how the green all reiterated by the hon. Members for Cheltenham and deal would work for vulnerable energy users. My hon. for Angus and my hon. Friends the Members for Friend the Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), Northampton South and for York Outer (Julian Sturdy), in his very statesmanlike speech, also highlighted the who listed a number of energy security measures, as need for more protection for the most vulnerable in well as by my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney society. (Peter Aldous), who spoke forcefully about offshore There will be strong consumer protection. It will be renewables, and my hon. Friend the Member for South necessary to propose that level of detail in statutory Suffolk (Mr Yeo). We are very keen to see a resurgence instruments, through which we will all have the opportunity in renewables and support for new technologies, including to scrutinise those important points in more detail. carbon capture and storage. I promise to write to hon. There will be a green deal quality mark for installers Members about any important points they have raised and warranties against installation failure and poor that I do not cover in what will be a rather hasty workmanship. The golden rule is that the charge attached wind-up now. to the Bill should not exceed the expected savings at the In summary, no one should underestimate the sheer time of the assessment and that will be crystal clear. scale of the ambition that underpins the Bill, which has The Consumer Credit Act 1974 will offer protection for the potential to upgrade the homes of every family in green deal customers. I really appreciate the way the Britain by allowing every household to access finance 1133 Energy Bill [Lords] 10 MAY 2011 1134 for up to £10,000-worth of energy improvements irrespective (1) any expenditure incurred by the Secretary of State or the of age or status. Further subsidy is available for hard-to-treat Gas and Electricity Markets Authority by virtue of the Act, and homes and, of course, the fuel-poor. The Bill will unleash (2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable the most far-reaching programme of British home under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Bill Wiggin.) improvements since the second world war. It will drive Question agreed to. down family energy costs and will insulate consumers against further sharp rises in future. The Bill will unleash billions of pounds in new investment in our green economy and will create thousands of new green jobs. ENERGY BILL [LORDS] (WAYS AND MEANS) The Bill will directly help those in poor rented Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing accommodation whose landlords refuse to make Order No. 52(1)(a)), improvements, and it declares war on the root causes of That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Energy fuel poverty. The Bill will deliver huge steps towards Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise— meeting our carbon reduction targets and it will strengthen (1) the imposition by virtue of the Act of charges under British energy security. The Bill will create a brand new licences issued under the Electricity Act 1989 or the Gas Act 1986, market and will drive choice and competition. It will and unleash British research and development as well as (2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Bill technical and industrial innovation that should propel Wiggin.) the UK to the forefront of the giant global markets for Question agreed to. energy efficiency, products and services—exports up, emissions down. The Bill will deliver greater choice to the consumer and fairer access to investment for the Business without Debate fuel-poor and it will be a massive boost to British businesses. I commend it to the House. Question put and agreed to. DELEGATED LEGISLATION Bill accordingly read a Second time. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)), ENERGY BILL [LORDS] (PROGRAMME) Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Order No. 83A(7)), That the draft African Development Fund (Multilateral Debt That the following provisions shall apply to the Energy Bill Relief Initiative) (Amendment) Order 2011, which was laid before [Lords]: this House on 17 March, be approved.—(Bill Wiggin.) Committal Question agreed to. 1. The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Proceedings in Public Bill Committee Order No. 118(6)), 2. Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not That the draft African Development Bank (Twelfth Replenishment previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday of the African Development Fund) Order 2011, which was laid 21 June 2011. before this House on 17 March, be approved. —(Bill Wiggin.) 3. The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the Question agreed to. first day on which it meets. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Consideration and Third Reading Order No. 118(6)), 4. Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously That the draft African Development Bank (Further Payments concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the to Capital Stock) Order 2011, which was laid before this House moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings on 17 March, be approved.—(Bill Wiggin.) are commenced. 5. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously Question agreed to. concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day. 6. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on consideration and Third Reading. EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Other proceedings Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing 7. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings Order No. 119(11)), on consideration of any Message from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Bill Wiggin.) WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE Question agreed to. That this House takes note of European Union Document No. 5064/11 and Addendum, Commission report on Member States’ Implementation of the Working Time Directive and ENERGY BILL [LORDS] (MONEY) No. 5068/11 and Addendum, Commission Communication on Reviewing the Working Time Directive; and supports the Queen’s recommendation signified. Government’s approach to emphasise to the Commission and the Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing UK’s European partners the Government’s determination to Order No. 52(1)(a)), retain the individual’s right to opt out of the 48-hour working That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Energy week, whilst seeking additional flexibility on the two problematic Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money areas of on-call time and compensatory rest.—(Bill Wiggin.) provided by Parliament of— Question agreed to. 1135 Business without Debate 10 MAY 2011 1136

PETITION Hospices (VAT) Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House St George’s Day (Public Holiday) do now adjourn.—(Bill Wiggin.)

9.59 pm 10.1 pm Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): I present and support Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The hospice movement the petition prepared by George’s Tradition, with 3,674 is a great British success story. If we wanted to think of signatures supporting the petition or wording in similar something that epitomises the big society, the terms. 209 independent hospices the length and breadth of the The petition states: land, with an army of more than 100,000 volunteers, The Petition of residents of the Erewash constituency and tick all the boxes. others, The hospice in my Colchester constituency—St Helena Declares that England is one of very few countries in the world hospice, named after the town’s patron saint—which that does not have a public holiday to celebrate its national day; serves the whole of north Essex, has around 800 volunteers notes that St Patrick’s Day is a bank holiday in Northern Ireland, who help in a wide variety of ways, raising money and and that St Andrew’s Day is a voluntary public holiday in Scotland; and further declares that everyone who is part of organising events, working at several charity shops and England should be able to celebrate its traditions, its heritage and helping at the hospice itself, which is centred on an the English way of life with a public holiday on St George’s Day. ancient farmhouse, Myland Hall. Around 180 professionals The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons are employed by the hospice as medical and key support urges the Government to bring forward proposals to make St staff, but without the volunteers the hospice could not George’s Day a public holiday in England. exist. It is very much a partnership, which for the past And the Petitioners remain, etc. 25 years has been a beacon of community involvement. [P000920] But all this has been achieved with one arm—financially speaking—tied behind their backs. I refer to the unfairness of the value added tax which penalises the charitable hospices while exempting exactly the same level of operation undertaken at the 36 national health service hospices and hospitals, which are VAT- exempt. This unfairness—the taxman taking money raised for charitable good causes—does not affect hospices alone, of course, but tonight’s debate is specifically about hospices. I look to the coalition Government to take urgent action to provide the necessary means to ensure that the VAT currently paid is refunded so that the money can be spent for the purposes for which it is raised or donated—the treatment of patients. I am grateful to Help the Hospices, the national umbrella group, for its assistance with background briefing for my speech. I also thank the Charity Tax Group for the information that it provided. The Charity Tax Group estimates that before VAT was raised to 20%, the total irrecoverable VAT across all charities was more than £1 billion. The new higher level of VAT has cost the charitable sector an estimated extra £143 million. For the record, I voted against raising VAT to 20%. This is not the first time that I have raised with the Government of the day the unintended consequences of VAT charged to charities, and thanks to my intervention several years ago the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), moved quickly to came up with a solution whereby the Royal British Legion receives a matching grant for the VAT it is required to pay on the production of its Remembrance day poppies. I invite the coalition Government to use this as a precedent to give matching grants to hospices for the VAT that they pay, as an interim measure in advance of seeking to amend the legislation to exempt them from VAT as if they were part of the NHS for this purpose. After all, the work they do is no different from what the NHS does, other than the fact that it involves the voluntary and charitable sector. If the “poppy” solution is not acceptable, I invite the Government to see whether the relief enjoyed by local authorities and other public bodies under section 33 of 1137 Hospices (VAT)10 MAY 2011 Hospices (VAT) 1138 the Value Added Tax Act 1994 and certain health care I will set out some statistics about the excellent job provisions under section 41 of the same Act could be that the nation’s hospices do. Collectively, they provide used to assist hospices. Failing that, why not adapt the more than 26 million hours of specialist care and support provisions in the Finance Bill to ensure that academy every year, 90% of which is provided through day care schools can recover VAT on non-business supplies in services and care in people’s homes, and 77% of adult the same way as local authorities can? If it is okay for palliative care in-patient units are run by hospices, with academies—educational establishments that are not the voluntary sector providing 2,139 adult in-patient universally welcomed—applying the same solution to beds, compared with just 490 provided by the NHS. hospices would probably generate near unanimous approval. All children’s in-patient units in the UK are run by In this respect, I congratulate the hon. Member for the voluntary sector. Independent voluntary hospice Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) on his ten-minute rule Bill expenditure increased by a fifth between 2007 and 2009, earlier this year, which proposed a simple legislative which indicates the continuing growth and importance solution. of hospices in the life of the nation. More than £1 million When the original European Union VAT system was is raised every day for the nation’s hospices, from developed, the special position of charities was not fundraising, legacies and donations. considered. Alas, because hospices provide services that The value of the voluntary work carried out by the are either exempt from VAT or outside the scope of the 100,000-plus volunteers is estimated to be worth in VAT system, they cannot recover the VAT they pay on excess of £112 million every year. Help for Hospices has their expenditure on supporting their charitable aims. told me: This is something that I am sure Members across the “Hospices are unique among providers of healthcare because House would want to see changed. they contribute so significantly to the funding and provision of Increasing demand for hospice care, alongside the hospice and palliative care. In 2009, hospices spent £687 million. For every £1 the State invests in local charitable hospices, those Government’s public service reform and big society hospices deliver £3 worth of care.” agendas, is likely to result in more care services being transferred to hospices. Indeed, I am grateful to the Sue It thus makes sense that the burden of VAT on hospices Ryder charity, which already has seven hospices. It first should be lifted so that they can do even more good for alerted me to this serious problem, telling me: the benefit of the communities that they serve. “A recent transfer of an NHS hospice to Sue Ryder under the Help for Hospices also told me: Transforming Community Services initiative has sparked interest “Hospice care receives overwhelming public support in the in the viability of charities taking on other NHS hospices and UK. A recent survey showed more than 80 per cent of people services. We believe there should be a level playing field in VAT believe everyone with a terminal illness should have the right to between charities and the NHS so that all possible funds can go receive hospice care.” towards the delivery of care.” My only observation is that I am amazed the figure is as low as 80%. Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): One of the Sue I would like to say a little more about the St Helena Ryder care hospices is in my constituency, and I warmly hospice in Colchester, which I visited on Saturday ahead support what my hon. Friend is saying. Does he agree of this evening’s debate and in order to inspect the that as we see the outsourcing of more NHS services to newly extended Joan Tomkins day care centre, which providers such as Sue Ryder, that could deliver a windfall was officially opened to coincide with the annual fete in to the Treasury rather than directing funds where they the grounds of the hospice. are most needed, which is to health and palliative care? The original day care centre, named in memory of the late wife of local businessman Mr Robin Tomkins, Bob Russell: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for whose generosity made the building possible, was opened raising that point, which I was just about to mention. in April 1988 by the Princess of Wales. I remember that Let me be financially blunt about this: if the hospices well, because my mother was in the nearby hospice and did not exist, the excellent work that they do would fall died a few days later. The princess spoke to my father at to the NHS and cost the public two to three times more my mother’s deathbed, and he spoke afterwards of the because of the considerably lower cost of hospices, warmth of compassion that she had shown. brought about by the special working combination of professionals and volunteers, with fundraising and so St Helena hospice, the main building, was officially on, which is the basis on which hospices were founded opened in April 1986 by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, and have existed over the years. the Queen Mother, so we have just celebrated its 25th anniversary. As an aside, I should have said that I understand that, on average, charitable hospices my mother was one of the volunteers in the early receive about one third of their funds for the services months after the hospice opened. they provide from statutory sources, which leaves two thirds to be raised to cover all the other costs. This Like other hospices throughout the country, St Helena already challenging target is not helped when it is is rooted in the local community that it serves. It provides realised that the taxman is helping himself to 20%. I am free medical and nursing care and therapy to adult advised that most local hospices do not have three-year patients with any diagnosis. Alongside the two day agreements with NHS commissioners, relying instead centres there is also one at Clacton, and there is in-patient on year-on-year negotiations that are, by their very accommodation in the purpose-built extension to the nature, subject to budgetary pressures within the NHS. historic Myland Hall. Alarmingly, a survey of member hospices conducted by Services are also provided for patients in their own Help the Hospices last March found that 64% of primary home. Indeed, in the past five years there has been a care trusts had frozen NHS funding for hospices for the 58% increase in the services in patients’ homes. St Helena period 2010-14. hospice also provides pre and post-bereavement support 1139 Hospices (VAT)10 MAY 2011 Hospices (VAT) 1140

[Bob Russell] and input of charities across a wide spectrum of national life and interests. We can all agree on the important role to family members, including children, and attached to that they play in our society and agree that we are the hospice is an education centre, providing education fortunate that they are prepared to come forward with for health and social care professionals. their immense contribution. It will cost St Helena hospice more than £4.6 million As we all know, VAT is a broad-based tax levied on in the current financial year to provide its valuable final consumption. It is charged by registered businesses services, and it would be great if it did not have to pay on their supplies and can be recovered by a business value added tax, but could instead spend that money on when the purchase is destined for use in the making of the purposes for which people wish it to be used— supplies that carry VAT. In this respect, charities are no supporting the work of their local hospice. different from others when they are in business, as they Help for Hospices told me: can recover VAT. A business, however, bears the VAT “As the population ages and people approach the end of life on purchases when it is making supplies that are exempt with ever-more complex co-morbidities, a spectrum of highly from VAT. Since the supplies it makes do not carry VAT, flexible and adaptive hospice and palliative care services need to it is unable to claim back the VAT. Exemption is applicable be available.” to a limited range of supplies such as the rent of land and buildings, education and health care. The application Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Not only the services of an exemption has to be in line with international and the care provided but also hospice-build should be agreements—in this case, the principal VAT directive. exempt from VAT. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that Since health care is included in the list of exemptions, the Minister should address that in his reply? we are obliged to apply an exemption. The hon. Gentleman’s central concern is how the Bob Russell: The hon. Gentleman makes an exceedingly impact of VAT on hospices can be mitigated. Ideas that good point. We have the nonsense, right across the have been mooted include the application of a refund construction industry, whereby new-build is VAT-exempt, system or arrangements similar to those applying to the but when a building is added to or converted, as in the NHS. With regard to a refund system, it would, in instance to which I believe the hon. Gentleman has just principle, be possible to introduce such a system in referred, VAT is levied. When a hospice wants to extend respect of the non-business activities of charities. However, its building, as in the extension and modernisation of such refunds, as a matter of Government expenditure the Joan Tomkins day care centre that I mentioned, rather than taxation, would place a very significant cost VAT is levied, as I understand it. That is wrong. burden on the Exchequer, especially given the current Help for Hospices also told me: fiscal position. Furthermore, many charities are engaged “The Government has committed to a ‘level playing field’ for in activities where they could be in direct competition all organisations delivering public services. However, charitable with private sector organisations: those activities include hospices continue to face extra costs that statutory and private the provision of care and welfare services. A refund providers do not. scheme for VAT incurred in relation to these services Tax burdens should be removed from hospices where they can would represent a distortion of competition. Any scheme be. This is particularly necessary as hospices are providing public that could be devised would be complex and services and investing considerable charitable funds into the ‘health administratively burdensome for charities to operate. economy’ and, unlike other private and public providers of healthcare, are subject to significant funding and contracting challenges.” Bob Russell: Will the Minister explain where the I believe that the public would overwhelmingly take competition is in the treatment of cancer patients? That the view that the coalition Government should urgently is something new to me; I did not realise that it was in introduce measures to deal with the unfairness of levying the competitive world. VAT on our hospices. I have put forward suggestions as to how that can be achieved, and I now invite the Minister to pursue these matters. Mr Gauke: I wanted to apply this initially to the broad issue of costs incurred by charities as a whole. Clearly, there can be an issue in the provision of care 10.14 pm and welfare services more generally, and I was looking The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David at it in that context rather than specifically with regard Gauke): I congratulate the hon. Member for Colchester to hospices. (Bob Russell) on securing this debate and on speaking It is true that the NHS can recover the portion of its with such evident passion and knowledge about the VAT costs that relate directly to out-sourced services hospices in his constituency and the hospice movement used in the provision of free healthcare—for example, more widely. I think I speak for all Members in expressing cleaning, laundry, catering and estate management. That a sense of admiration for what the hospice movement amounts to about 20% of the total VAT incurred across does. I certainly know of the fantastic work that a the NHS. This ability to reclaim some VAT costs is number of hospices perform in my constituency. taken into account as part of the overall funding I am pleased to have a further opportunity to explain arrangements for the NHS. Refunds do not extend to and discuss the Government’s policy on an issue that VAT paid on goods and services purchased to support has generated considerable interest and is evidently of business activities that are exempt from VAT, such as concern to a large number of hon. Members. It might private health care and property rental. be helpful if I could start by reminding Members of the In addition to the obligation placed on the Government current position with regard to VAT and the constraints to ensure that the VAT system is fiscally neutral and that we are acting under. Before I do so, I would like to does not distort competition, it is not within our gift to confirm how much the Government appreciate the energy change unilaterally a VAT system unanimously agreed 1141 Hospices (VAT)10 MAY 2011 Hospices (VAT) 1142 in Europe and applying in the single market. We need to benefit. The important point, which has been made, is apply the mandatory exemption in relation to the business that as we commission more health care services, it will supplies of health care providers, with the associated not be cost-neutral for the Treasury, but will give a block on recovery. Similarly, under European agreements windfall benefit to the Treasury. Surely something can the Government cannot extend existing VAT zero rates be done so that at least new services that are provided or introduce new ones. Reduced rates can be applied gain a refund for VAT, and do not just deliver a benefit only to a specific list of goods and services, and there is to the Treasury for no benefit to the community. no such reduced rate that applies to all supplies made by all charities. Mr Gauke: Again, hon. Members are raising fair points. To jump to the conclusion, we are looking Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab) rose— closely at this area. The help that we provide to charitable giving is Mr Gauke: I give way to the hon. Gentleman, who important. Charities are central to our big society agenda. takes a great interest in this matter. The 2011 Budget announced the most radical and generous reforms to charitable giving for 20 years, including Nic Dakin: The Minister is giving a detailed explanation, reducing the inheritance tax rate when 10% or more of which is very helpful. May I refer back to situations in the net estate is left to charity. From 2013, a new scheme which a hospice, for example, takes over services that will allow charities to claim a gift aid-style top-up on were previously run by the NHS, for which the NHS small donations that they receive without gift aid could recover VAT on non-business services? Surely declarations for up to £5,000 for each charity every such an imaginative Minister can find a way of transferring year. Overall, 100,000 charities can benefit from the that across to the hospice movement so that it is cost-neutral 2011 Budget changes to the tune of about £600 million. for the Exchequer, but beneficial to the community. It is also worth mentioning the transition fund that was announced at the spending review.It makes £100 million Mr Gauke: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I available to charities, voluntary organisations and social will come back to that point. It is kind of him to say enterprises that are delivering front-line services and are that I am going through this in a detailed way. If I may, affected by reductions in public spending. The fund I will proceed and then come back to what we can do. It provides grants of between £12,500 and £500,000 to is worth making the point that the last time we tried to help organisations make the changes necessary to thrive change the list of matters that can be zero rated for in the long term. Funding was made available in 2010-11 VAT, it took six years and some negotiation. and 2011-12, and the fund is focused on helping It is worth highlighting the help that Government organisations transit and adapt to the new funding provide for charities. We are limited in the support that environment rather than merely keep going. The first we can give through changes to the VAT system, but it is 18 awards were made on 15 February, with further important to understand that the Government can and awards in March, April and May. do support charities more widely through the existing The Government continue to examine ways of ensuring VAT system and in other ways. We are committed to that VAT does not act as a barrier to the reform of retaining the existing VAT zero rates that apply specifically public services, which was the point that the hon. Member to charities, which provide a benefit of about £200 million for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) raised. We are a year. Those include VAT zero ratings for qualifying examining such options where they are open to us and charities on sales of donated goods, for medical and affordable within agreed funding arrangements. For scientific equipment, and for goods for use by disabled example, the Government announced in the Budget people. Charities are not charged VAT on the costs of that we would continue to consult charities and advertising and public media. They also qualify for zero organisations in other sectors to explore options for rating on the construction of certain buildings to be implementing the EU VAT exemption for cost sharing. used for charitable purposes. All those zero rates are I can tell the House that one of the options under derogations from the normal EU VAT rules and are not consideration is to issue a consultation paper on the enjoyed by charities in other member states. Charities subject within the next two months, and we are exploring also benefit from the more widely available VAT zero that possibility closely. rates that are applicable to purchases. More widely, there are often ways of mitigating the The UK has one of the most generous tax systems in impact of VAT within the existing system. For example, the world for charities. Our existing reliefs for charities where local authorities and other public bodies enter are worth more than £3 billion a year. Gift aid is the into contractual rather than funding arrangements with largest single relief, and it is now worth nearly £1 billion charitable providers, it can greatly lessen any irrecoverable to charities each year. Our position, which is in line with VAT incurred by those providers in many cases. It has that taken by successive Governments, is that the most to be acknowledged, however, that such an approach appropriate way of supporting charities is to encourage does not offer much scope for services that fall within charitable giving, rather than to create a complex and the health exemption. burdensome system of additional reliefs or refunds. As I said earlier, I recognise that there is genuine concern about VAT among people involved in hospices. Martin Horwood: As a former director of fundraising That was why, in March, I met the hon. Members for for a national charity, I tell the Minister that encouraging Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) and for Leeds North West giving is easy to say, but more difficult to achieve, (Greg Mulholland) and people working in the hospice whereas a VAT refund would make a substantial and sector, including for Sue Ryder. Following that meeting immediate difference. The problem of the burden on the I asked officials to continue the dialogue, and they have charity would be easily overcome in exchange for the met subsequently with the intention of exploring any 1143 Hospices (VAT)10 MAY 2011 Hospices (VAT) 1144

[Mr Gauke] for Worcester (Mr Walker) has put that thought on the record, and my officials will certainly take it up. viable options. I hope that that provides some reassurance, As I said, there is clearly strong feeling in the House although I cannot give more detail at the moment. I am on the subject, and rightly so. We all recognise and certainly keen that we explore options. respect the value of the hospice movement, and we all recognise the opportunities and benefits of a greater Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con): Will the Exchequer diversity of supply of services. We agree that it would be Secretary respond to a suggestion that has been made most unfortunate if the workings of the VAT system by Richard Shaw, the treasurer of the excellent St were to get in the way of sensible progress. I hope that Richard’s hospice in my constituency? He has suggested my comments will provide reassurance to the hon. that under the NHS reforms, if hospices’ income from Member for Colchester that we understand the issues doctors’ consortia could be deemed to be VAT standard that have been raised and that the Government are rating, that would allow hospices to recover a lot more taking them very seriously. I hope that we can continue VAT on their charges. Will that be one of the options to work closely with the hospice movement in developing that his officials look into? proposals. Question put and agreed to. Bob Russell: It will now.

Mr Gauke: As the hon. Member for Colchester has 10.28 pm just muttered, it will now. My hon. Friend the Member House adjourned. 347WH 10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 348WH

there will, no doubt, be a decline in the visual amenity, Westminster Hall will not the mid-Wales area still be beautiful and desirable to the millions of people who live in urban areas? Tuesday 10 May 2011 Glyn Davies: I want to come later in my speech to what we will be left with afterwards, but the sheer scale [MRS LINDA RIORDAN in the Chair] of what is proposed means that the development will cause huge damage. Already people are not prepared to Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) commit themselves to holidays in the long term. Already Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting the prices of houses are falling. The impact is already be now adjourned.—(Stephen Crabb.) seriously damaging. There are beautiful parts of Britain; the economy of mid-Wales depends on tourism, which 9.30 am depends on its beauty. What some people want is to act freely to destroy the one thing that makes the place Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): This debate special. That is what the authorities in their various is on a subject that is of greater importance to me than forms are contemplating doing. any other issue will be during the entire time that I serve as a Member of the House, irrespective of how long When the policy statement or technical advice note that is. It is a great pleasure to serve under your popularly known as TAN 8 was issued by the Welsh chairmanship for the first time, Mrs Riordan. You can Assembly Government in 2005, I and a few others observe that I am not at my best today—not physically, understood immediately that this monstrous proposal at least—having had to enter the Chamber on crutches. would be the consequence. However, the local population I will remain dependent on crutches for a while. I am did not truly grasp the scale of what that policy statement grateful to my surgeon at the excellent Robert Jones and meant. I suppose that it seemed almost too incredible to Agnes Hunt hospital in Gobowen, who two weeks ago believe—if only it were. Now that the population of performed a successful operation on my back. Mr Trivedi mid-Wales have grasped the degree of desecration planned is most displeased that I am here this morning. He for their area, there has been an uprising of anger and instructed me to rest at home, but this morning was protest the like of which I have never seen before. such a valuable opportunity that I would have allowed Huge numbers of people, usually approaching 500, myself to be carried in by stretcher. In fact, I thought have turned up at several public meetings. At one meeting that that would add a dramatic touch to the occasion, that I called in Welshpool, at short notice and with but in the end I decided against it. I certainly hope that minimal advertisement, more than 2,000 people turned it is not the way I will be carried out. up. These people are from every sector of the population, I will start by declaring a sort of interest. I was born and include many who would benefit financially from in mid-Wales on an upland farm that I still own; today, the proposals. If the National Assembly for Wales had I live about a mile away from it. I love the landmass that been sitting at the time and not involved in an election, constitutes mid-Wales and could not contemplate living all of them would have descended on Cardiff bay there anywhere else on earth. It is a place of great beauty. and then to ensure that the politicians behind this That beauty is important in the context of the debate outrage were made fully aware of the scale of the anger. because it underpins the most important and largest part of the local economy—tourism. It can be no Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I congratulate surprise that I and almost all the disinterested population the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. He has of mid-Wales are horrified that the proposals about cited meetings in his constituency. Does he agree that which I intend to speak are even being seriously considered. this is very much a mid-Wales issue? In the north of The consequence of the proposals would be to destroy Cardiganshire, the prospect of the huge wind farm totally the place that we love by industrialising the development at Nant y Moch has also caused huge uplands with wind turbines and desecrating our valleys concern locally. That concern has been articulated very with hideous cables and pylons. effectively by the Cambrian Mountains Society, which For the benefit of everyone, I should outline the sheer is campaigning for the Cambrian mountains to become scale, and horror, of what is proposed. It is not an an area of outstanding natural beauty. That needs to be ordinary development—the sort of thing that we have respected. The public anxiety to which the hon. Gentleman seen before. It is the largest ever onshore wind development refers is very real and extends across the whole of in England and Wales. The proposals envisage the granting mid-Wales. of permission for the erection of between 600 and 800 huge new onshore turbines in mid-Wales—over and Glyn Davies: There is truly a mid-Wales impact. The above all those that currently exist and those that already proposals affect part of Radnorshire hugely and all of have planning approval—a 20-acre electricity substation Shropshire, depending on where the lines to the national and about 100 miles of new cable, much of it carried on grid go, and of course there is the proposal for Nant y steel towers 150 feet high. That is scarcely believable. Moch in Ceredigion, but the biggest effect by quite The scale of it is almost impossible to comprehend. Not a distance will probably be on my constituency of even the enemies of Britain over the centuries have Montgomeryshire. In relation to the impact locally, I wrought such wanton destruction on that wondrous pay tribute to the local newspaper, the County Times.It part of the United Kingdom. has understood what the people of its catchment area feel and has organised petitions. It realises that virtually Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Is it not a little everyone in the county opposes what is proposed. It is a over the top to suggest that the landscape will be totally proposition that everyone locally is deeply and destroyed? Even when the turbines are there, although fundamentally opposed to and always will be. 349WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 350WH

[Glyn Davies] 800 new turbines in mid-Wales when they will be 30 to 50 miles from any connection to the national grid? That The protest that I spoke of will still take place, as makes no economic or climate change sense whatever; it soon as the recently elected Assembly Members have is almost as if the plan was drawn up with no consideration taken their seats. I will do all I can to ensure that that of where the national grid was. happens. We must ensure that in years to come, they cannot disclaim responsibility for the environmental Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): I congratulate vandalism and shocking waste of public money for my hon. Friend on securing the debate, and on the which they will have been responsible. We do not want exceptional work that he has done in standing up for his the people responsible for the decision saying, “We community in Montgomeryshire, for mid-Wales and for didn’t understand that it was going to cause that much communities across the border. Does he regret the fact damage.” It is important that they know now exactly that a centralised policy framework exists in Wales, and what they are going to do. In decades to come, they will that even if the local planning authority rejects the be remembered, in the way that those who were responsible application for the project, the chances of success on for drowning the Tryweryn valley in the last century are appeal are pretty strong, so the Welsh Assembly remembered in Wales today, half a century later. We Government will have the final say? Does he regret the must ensure that, in mid-Wales, their names will be fact that the Welsh Assembly Government are not following remembered in future decades as having been on the roll the localism framework that exists in England, which call of those responsible for splitting the Welsh nation would give local people much stronger rights to object asunder. to such applications?

Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) Glyn Davies: I thank my hon. Friend for that. I will (PC): I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing come to the role of TAN 8 and the Assembly Government this very important debate. I have two TAN 8 areas in in the last part of my speech, because it is key. It might my constituency. Does he agree with me that the Welsh seem that I am focusing overly on the position of the Government have got TAN 8 totally wrong? It is a crass National Assembly for Wales, but it is crucial. Decisions way of drawing lines on a map and placing all industrial will be taken in a number of places, but against the wind developments within those areas. If we are to have policy background of TAN 8. large-scale multinational wind farms in Wales, surely they should be offshore. Does he agree with me on that The carbon impact of the development can never be point? compensated for by any possible carbon benefit. There is the cost of importing materials over such a large distance and over a road network that is totally unsuitable Glyn Davies: It will come as no surprise to the hon. for such traffic; huge investment will be necessary just Gentleman that in principle I do agree with him on that to get them to the wind farms that are to be built. There point, but I want to touch on that area and the relationship are also other environmental costs, such as the destruction to the National Assembly for Wales later in my speech. of the peat bogs and much else. The people of mid-Wales are a reasonable people. If In the middle of my constituency, there is a wind the proposal were essential to the national interest, or if farm with 103 turbines, which have been there for it was necessary in some way to accept the destruction 20 years and which are now to be taken down and of our environment for some overwhelmingly greater replaced with new, larger turbines. However, the huge good, we would in all probability accept it with traditional concrete pads on which the redundant turbines are built stoicism. We would be deeply upset, of course, but we will not be removed; the turbines will be removed, but would accept the responsibility to our nation. However, these huge lumps of concrete will stay in the ground. that is obviously not the case; the development is all for There will be 103 of them, together with 40-odd for the no good purpose. turbines that are taking the place of the old ones, and I I will not go into detail about the utterly pathetic suppose there will be another 50 when another wind performance of the onshore wind sector in Wales, but farm comes along on the same site in 15 years. The each day we read new reports of how poorly its performance destruction over a long period is almost impossible to compares with what is claimed for it when new proposals calculate. are put forward. The Renewable Energy Foundation Even worse is the seemingly deliberate conflation of tells me that its most recent figures show that Welsh the terms “onshore wind” and “renewable energy”, wind farms have a load factor of just 19%—the lowest which has done huge damage to public support for the ever recorded. We also know that there is a need for latter. Most people I know are, or at least were, proud to back-up energy generation to cover periods when the describe themselves as being supportive of renewable wind is not blowing, or is blowing too strongly. Little is energy, but the obsession with onshore wind has heard about that when onshore wind developers extol undermined public support for renewable energy. the virtues of their proposals and sell their wares. The Occasionally—actually, this has happened only once truth is that onshore wind simply does not deliver what since the scale of the proposals became known—I have we are told it will; it does not do what it says on the tin. heard, or rather have heard of, words of support for The most important industry in mid-Wales is seriously turbines and pylons, but those words totally dismissed under threat because of the proposals. In my constituency all that those of us who have chosen to stay in the area alone, the local tourism alliance estimates the value of greatly value. After a recent recording session for a live tourism at £360 million per year, and 6,300 jobs depend Welsh TV programme, a friend complained that 90% of on it. Tourism dominates the economy, but the beautiful the mid-Wales uplands would be covered in wind turbines. landscape of mid-Wales will be sacrificed on the altar A representative of a local environment organisation of a false god. What sense can it make to erect up to shouted out, “What about covering the other 10% as 351WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 352WH well?” I cannot verify that conversation with precision, One of my critical concerns was that, unlike most but the drift is clear. Such people have no absolutely planning policies, it was not open to a public inquiry; idea what damage they are doing to the cause they there was only consultation in the Assembly, which was purport to support. judge and jury in this matter. It is quite exceptional for a There is also the opportunity cost. The massive public planning policy to be implemented in that way, without subsidy that onshore wind is swallowing up is just as the opportunity for a public inquiry. damaging to the future of renewable energy, which will Glyn Davies: I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising be crucial to our energy supply over the next decades. that important point. There was not even consultation So much more could have been done to advance the in the National Assembly for Wales; the governing wider cause of renewable energy. Biomass potentially party of the day just issued a statement, with no scope has a great future in mid-Wales, and I could also for discussion or consultation—we had to take it or mention microgeneration, marine power—wave and tidal leave it. I stood up and immediately opposed the guidance, power—offshore wind and solar photovoltaics, as well but even then, I did not quite realise the scale of what it as several other sources of power generation that I meant for the future of rural Wales. cannot immediately recall. Indeed, there are probably several others I have never heard of. However, those I feel a bit guilty: having spent eight years as a possible sources of future renewable energy are not Member of the National Assembly, I am hugely supportive being developed because of an obsession with onshore of it, but I have been critical this morning. I want to wind. When we have turbines on the hills, politicians explain why. If we are to find a way to challenge the can point at them and say, “We did that,” but all they plans, we must identify the source—it is no good just have done is wreak serious damage on the land that the shouting at everybody—and look at how the applications people of mid-Wales think of as their own. Thousands will be dealt with. The issue of the cable that will run of pounds have been poured into onshore wind, restricting from near the middle of my constituency to the middle the development of forms of renewable energy that the of Shropshire will actually be decided on here, in public would actually welcome. Westminster. It will go through the Infrastructure Planning Commission process, and probably through the processes In the last part of my speech, I want to look at how of its successor. Decisions on the larger wind farms—those we reached today’s position; often, we need to of more than 50 MW—will also be taken here. The look back to decide how best to move forward. I was decision on a 20-acre electricity substation, which might the chairman of the local planning authority in be built within almost half a mile of a village and thus Montgomeryshire through the 1980s, and onshore wind devalue it overnight, will be taken by the local planning farms were novel at the time. However, it quickly became authority in Powys. The local authority will also make clear that they were hugely divisive, and most of us will decisions on the smaller wind farms of up to 50 MW, have had experience of how divisive they can be, splitting but with appeals to the National Assembly for Wales. communities and even families. Even at the time, I was never convinced that onshore wind was a worthwhile All those decisions will be taken against the background technology, but I could see that it was an important new of TAN 8, because any inspector looking at how to technology with possibilities and that research was needed. decide on a proposal put before them will do so against that planning background. That is why the only possible Several wind farms were developed in Montgomeryshire way of saving mid-Wales from the desecration to which —one was the biggest in Europe when it was built—and it is sentenced by TAN 8 is to take a more sympathetic there are many wind farms there now. Although they look in some way—through a redrafting, an understanding, had a localised impact, I did not think that they were a or a proper discussion in the National Assembly for threat to the entire region, even though some quite Wales—at whether it is the right policy, and whether it visionary people warned me that we were opening the is framed as it should be. I know perfectly well that at door to the sort of thing that eventually happened. The the end of the day, the state, in its various forms, will Campaign for the Protection of Rural Wales, of which I have its way. We live in a civilised country where debate was the president for three years before I was elected to and minorities are trampled on and local opinion is this place, was particularly vociferous, and it deserves completely ignored. That may happen in this case, but I congratulations on the position that it took from an find it scarcely believable that it can. early stage. Even though I was not convinced of the value of onshore wind farms at the time, my general Some people believe that we had gone too far before attitude, and that of most of the population, was that everybody understood what had happened, and I think mid-Wales was a large and beautiful place that could that part of the strategy was to make certain that people accommodate some new wind farms. did not understand what was happening. Even now, the way in which proposals have been presented is designed That was my attitude until 2005, and it was most to split the community.There is a choice of two substations people’s attitude until perhaps two months ago. One and two or three lines, and that looks like a deliberate fateful day in 2005, however, the Assembly Government attempt to turn one part of the constituency of mid-Wales published a statement updating TAN 8, which offered against another, but the people of mid-Wales have not local planning authorities guidance on how to deal with been fooled; they have stuck together absolutely. If the planning applications. I was horrified by what it meant, plans go ahead as proposed, they will be outraged for and those who discussed it over a quite a long period ever; they will hold those responsible guilty for ever and were equally horrified. Today, the entire population is will never forgive them. horrified. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): I 9.52 am welcome the hon. Gentleman back after his operation. Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): It is good to see that he is vertical, even if he needs a bit I congratulate the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire of assistance. I opposed TAN 8 and its implementation. (Glyn Davies)on securing the debate. I am sorry to hear 353WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 354WH

[Sandra Osborne] happened—it had been blighted already by the coal industry over many years. That has not happened yet, about his injury, but given the pain that he must be but the fear is always there, as more and more applications suffering, he put the case on behalf of his constituents are made. extremely well, and I am sure that they will appreciate that. Everything he said is familiar to me as I have a Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): The hon. Lady makes very similar situation in my constituency, which is why I an important point, which clearly supports the point am so grateful for the opportunity to speak in today’s made by my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire. debate. There are small-scale wind farms in my constituency, The Carrick area of Ayrshire is one of the most which have community support, and the concern in my beautiful in Scotland—I would say in the UK, but I will constituency is that the type of monster development not enter into a competition with the hon. Gentleman. that we see in mid-Wales will damage those community- It is obviously a rural area, and has suffered job losses led developments that have been beneficial to rural and loss of services in recent years. It is dependent on communities, such as the upper Conwy valley. tourism and will be for the foreseeable future. Sandra Osborne: I could not agree more. The proliferation I do not stand here as someone who is against wind is causing wind farms per se to be called into question farms per se. They are a reality whether we like them or in a way that is not necessary or desirable. not, but I do not personally like turbines. They do not There are 20 wind farms operational, at the scoping do anything for the local environment, but they have a stage or in the planning process in my constituency and part to play in securing our energy needs and meeting the adjacent area of Galloway, which is by no means renewable energy targets, so it would be unrealistic to large; it is a small area of Scotland. People will not be take an all-or-nothing approach and say that there able to see the details, but I have a map of the area that should be no wind farms. Although I am aware of the indicates the scale of development that will happen if various research and that countries such as Denmark all the wind farm applications go through. We will have seem to be backtracking on the whole idea, there is not almost 600 wind turbines, and even the most ardent enough substantial evidence to take the view that they environmentalist must surely understand that that is should simply be banned, and, on a tactical level, if not acceptable in anybody’s book. someone wanted to do that, it would not be practical or realistic. I will refer to the health concerns associated It is my responsibility as an MP to put forward the with wind farms, in some cases, later in my contribution views of my constituents on this matter, because they in the context of my constituents. are in a David and Goliath battle with the big companies, Not enough work has been done on alternative sources which come in and say that they are consulting people, of energy other than wind farms. Carbon capture and but the decision has already been made. I must put storage is close to my heart because another part of my forward the real concerns of my constituents, because very large constituency is a mining area with an open-cast no one at the moment is listening—certainly not in the mine. In contrast to wind farms, which do not provide Scotland Parliament. The benefits of wind farms should many jobs, open-cast mines could provide hundreds of be stated, but so should the cost, and not only the jobs in a very poor part of my constituency. I am financial cost to the taxpayer, but the cost to the community. frustrated that more work has not been done in that I have constituents who are very close to wind turbines. regard. In Scotland, the suggested separation distance—the The hon. Gentleman referred to other means of suggested distance—is 2 km, but some individual houses generating energy, such as offshore and tidal schemes, are nearer than that. I have a constituent who cannot but, again, we have been slow to invest in such sources. open her curtains or blinds because she is subjected to Some progress has now been made, but they will not constant flicker from the wind farm. Although it is said become a practical alternative in the near future. We that there is no evidence that that can happen, she hope to see them become so, but they are not there now. would differ; her mental and physical health has been The Scottish National party Government have outlawed seriously affected. However, compensation is not available nuclear energy in Scotland, but given the situation in to allow people to move, and such people will not be Japan it was bound to be called into question by some able to sell their houses. people. I know that the circumstances are not the same, I wish to make two last points. First, I was interested but an incident such as that is bound to raise fears to hear that England has stronger rights to object. I among the public, so nuclear policy may be affected as would like to know more about that, because such well. All in all, we have not done enough to tackle the rights are needed in Scotland and elsewhere. It is not issues to meet our renewable targets. acceptable that people can be more or less bullied into My worry with wind farm development is the accepting the situation, with no redress or appeal. proliferation of wind farms in particular areas. As the My other worry is with the new Scottish National hon. Gentleman said, initially, everybody took the view party Government. I have a lot of worries about that, that we must contribute for the public good, because it but the main one is that they have totally unrealistic is important for the future of the planet, and what targets for 100% renewables, and they cannot possibly could be more important? I now fear that, once the be met in the time scale. To my constituents, that means doors to wind farms have been opened in an area, only one thing—ever more wind farms in their area. before we know it, the whole place will be full of them. If all the applications that were submitted for a small town in my constituency, Dalmellington—not in the 10 am Carrick area, but in a former mining area—were granted, Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): the whole town would be surrounded by wind farms. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Imagine the devastation in the community if that Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) on securing this debate. 355WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 356WH

He spoke of his problem with crutches; conversely, I Mr Mark Williams: I know that my hon. Friend is a have a coughing fit as a result of a viral infection. regular tourist to my constituency. He speaks about the Conservative Members seem to be going down like flies. general environmental damage done by turbines, but I was sitting in my constituency surgery on Friday will he reflect also on the damage done in the immediate and various constituents spoke to me about my hon. area of wind farms? Next time he visits Ceredigion, I Friend, telling me of the growing reputation that he has shall take him to the summit of Cefn Croes, which at secured across the border. He is an extremely hard-working one point contained the largest wind farm in the country. Member of Parliament, is very effective in representing There he will see the damage done to the peat bogs—there his constituents and is a man of great integrity and has been no attempt to restore the landscape—and the honour. It is not often that we in Shropshire talk about spectacle of vast concrete roads going to the summit of Members of Parliament from other countries and other a beautiful landscape. parts of the region, but I was surprised at the strength of feeling among my constituents. My hon. Friend Daniel Kawczynski: I holiday in my hon. Friend’s spoke with great passion this morning, and I hope that constituency, which is beautiful, and I can recommend the Minister has taken on board how passionate he is. Mwnt bay as a lovely holiday destination. I shall take I had a breakfast meeting this morning with the up his offer. Chairman of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, Tourism is the No. 1 income generator in Shropshire, my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. and we depend upon our beautiful landscape to attract C. Davies). I formally asked him to use his position to tourists, who come not only from the United Kingdom hold an investigation into the matter, so that some form but from around the world. I pay tribute to two local of official work can be carried out on the strategy—where Conservative councillors, Tudor Bebb and David Roberts. these wind farms are to be built and how the electricity They are working hard with various local bodies, including is to be transported to the national grid. I encourage all the local tourism association, to analyse the impact that hon. Members present today to join me in that. My the proposals would have on the local economy. hon. Friend was interested in my proposal, and I would If the electricity produced were brought across Shropshire be grateful if my hon. Friends and colleagues supported to the national grid, the cables could be put underground. me in reiterating the point. However, we are told by those who propose these measures I, too, am extremely angry with those who propose that that would cost 15 times as much as pylons, the these measures. I would like them to stop and think for monstrosities that would have to be built on the Shropshire a minute about how they would feel if these giant countryside. I ask the Minister, is it true? What analysis monsters were to be built near their homes or next to has been undertaken by the Government on that point? their villages. They would be devastated. Speaking as a Is it the reality that putting cables underground would father, I am extremely concerned about the safety aspects cost 15 times as much? I ask because we hear from of the pylons, an aspect that has already been mentioned, colleagues in the Danish Parliament that the costs are and the effect that they will have on young children. nothing like that. If so, my constituents are being Many of my constituents have expressed such concerns deliberately misled by these companies at public meetings to me. about the cost of putting the cables underground rather than on pylons. Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): Does my hon. Friend accept that in Sweden, for example, pylons have been taken Tessa Munt: I place on record the fact that the chief down across the country and the transmission cabling executive of National Grid has admitted that he said at has been transferred underground, and that as a result a meeting nearly two years ago that putting cables there is no loss of visual amenity for those who enjoy underground was “a no brainer”. At a public meeting such areas? It is not only a Welsh problem, as pylons with my right hon. Friend the Member for North will march right across the beautiful levels and moors of Somerset (Dr Fox), the Secretary of State for Defence, mid-Somerset. The Minister is familiar with my complaints and other MPs and candidates in Somerset, National on the matter, but significant health issues have been Grid admitted that it was likely to cost only £1 per proven, and countries such as Sweden are doing something household per year to put cables underground for Hinkley about the problem. Point and other connections. That conflicts with what is being said by the same National Grid personnel at Daniel Kawczynski: I am grateful to my hon. Friend public meetings in Somerset—that it would be 20 times for that intervention. Her pedigree of fighting on the as expensive to put cabling underground or under the sea. matter is well known. Indeed, I attended a public meeting in Shropshire and the billboards referred to her work on Daniel Kawczynski: I agree and that is the critical the matter. I totally agree with her, and I shall refer to point that we need to get across to the Minister. I will be the matter later. formally writing to him later today and tabling written My hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire parliamentary questions on the matter. I want people to spoke about the importance of tourism to Wales. I know the true cost of such cabling rather than being concur with him; tourists are attracted to these places told that it could be 15 or 20 times higher. because of their natural beauty. The hon. Member for Let me return briefly to the point about tourism and Newport West (Paul Flynn), who is no longer present, the natural beauty of Shropshire. The proximity of one tried to suggest that wind farms would not affect the of the proposed route corridors to the Shropshire hills countryside’s natural beauty, but he is totally deluded. means that it will have a significant impact on an area of He does not fully understand how important it is for the outstanding beauty. However, let me put it on record landscape to be turbine and pylon-free, as tourists come that section 85 of the Countryside and Rights of Way to the area to enjoy that beauty. Act 2000 357WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 358WH

[Daniel Kawczynski] consultation also differed to those under discussion with Powys council. National Grid and Scottish Power are not attending the Shawbury has one of the UK’s largest facilities for same consultation events and have not been consistent in their RAF helicopter training. Situated in the Kinnerley, communication to statutory and other stakeholders, or the public. SSE Renewables have not started their consultation and yet they Edgerley, Melverley and Knockin parishes is the Nesscliffe contribute to the project in the same role as Scottish Power.” training area, which trains all helicopter pilots from RAF Shawbury. Helicopters training in our locality I will end there. I hope that the Minister acknowledges also fly into mid-Wales. Hence, the proposed NG pylon the strength of my feelings. In the six years that I have routes through this immediate locality would detrimentally been an MP, I have never said that such a development affect the training of our servicemen and women and will happen over my cold, dead, listless body. None the negatively impact on our response to natural disasters less, I feel tempted to say so now. I will fight tooth and and threats to national security. How can the erection of nail to prevent my beautiful county being decimated by pylons in an area that is so important to the training of these ghastly electricity pylons. I hope that the Minister our nation’s helicopter pilots be considered as a possibility? will give me some reassurance that he has heard how strongly we feel on this matter. I have been to RAF Shawbury and flown in a helicopter around Shropshire. I have seen already the extraordinary number of areas that these helicopters have to avoid. 10.16 am There are huge restrictions on them, so to have these Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): huge wind farms and monster pylons all over the place I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for will only add to their difficulties. I raise that issue Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) on securing this debate. because it is important that the pilots are trained effectively I have to be in a Standing Committee at 10.30 am, so I and properly. will leave before the Minister winds up the debate. None Flooding is one of the greatest problems that affects the less, I welcome the opportunity to make a few Shrewsbury. It devastates not only the town but its points. I have been opposed to on-land wind farms for a economy. Edgerley and Melverley are at the Severn long time. I am not opposed to microgeneration that Vyrnwy confluence and experience unique flooding. serves individual houses and communities, but the The area serves as a natural holding area of water, and contribution that on-land wind farms can make to helps to alleviate some of the flooding lower downstream. reducing carbon emissions is limited and not altogether At a time when the Government are investing millions positive. to minimise the effect of flooding, it is bizarre to make a commitment to upland wind farms on such a massive When technical advice note 8 was produced in 2005, I scale because they will only add to run-off and thus opposed it, and in so doing I faced a lot of criticism increase flooding. from my party and from people in my area, because they saw such developments as a way to deal with Families have farmed in this area for generations and climate change. I made a number of points about TAN accept that flooding is an element of life. However, the 8 at the time. I said that there had been no opportunity flooding in the Severn valley has worsened in recent to hold a public inquiry on the allocation of land for years, which the Environment Agency has attributed to wind farm developments. I also said that it took no the drainage of upland areas in mid-Wales. Given that account of the difficulty of transporting the structures we are so concerned with reducing the flooding, why are to such isolated places. Apparently, there was no the Government encouraging the construction of 800 wind consultation with the trunk road agencies in Wales, let turbines in mid-Wales? It is said that alone with the highway departments of our local authorities. “each turbine stands on a pad the size of an Olympic swimming pool. The huge quantities of concrete that will replace the bog My other concern was the real impact that the land will also increase water runoff resulting in increased flooding.” transmission cables would have on the beauty of our Let me now say something on behalf of my hon. countryside. I was unaware then of the impact that the Friend the Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne) and my transformer stations would have, but I clearly understood right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire the problem with the transmission lines. It seems incredible (Mr Paterson). As my hon. Friend is a Whip, he cannot to me that such concerns were not included in the speak in this debate. None the less, he is equally passionate consideration of TAN 8. In many instances, one has to about the matter and how it will impact on his constituency. apply for planning permission for the transmission lines He is working hard to support my hon. Friend the after the planning permission has been given for the Member for Montgomeryshire and I to raise these wind farms. My heart goes out to my hon. Friend the issues in the House. Member for Montgomeryshire, because much of that will impact on his constituency. Let me briefly explain the views of my hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow. In an e-mail, he said that it is I do not know if it is very good practice to change a clear planning policy as a result of planning applications that “that there are three network providers, each involved in providing have been made. That seems to be putting the cart electricity connection; National Grid, Scottish Power Energy before the horse and does not seem to be very good Networks and SSE Renewables. All of these companies are practice. For instance, in my constituency there are required under licence by the Electricity Act 1989 to develop and private individuals who were aware of the implications maintain an efficient, co-ordinated and economical system of of TAN 8 but who none the less invested a great deal of electrical transmission. The current consultation underway on the money in the sector. We are talking about not just Mid Wales Connection project includes inconsistencies, which multinational companies or large companies in Brittany indicate a potential failure to deliver in accordance with the Act. None of these companies knows what the relative lengths of cable but private individuals who have seen an opportunity to are for a fully populated TAN 8. National Grid appear to have make an investment that is apparently in accordance proposed a sub-station position that Scottish Power are unhappy with the policy of both the Welsh Assembly Government with, and residents have been told that the sites selected for and the UK Government. They have made that investment, 359WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 360WH but where do they stand if the policy on which they the 17th in the world, but that prospect seems to have made that investment decision changes? That is a point disappeared into the ether, mainly because of the threat that I want the Minister to address. There must be some of what will happen to that land due to the transmission recompense for those people if we change our minds at of electricity. I refer, of course, to Hinkley, but I absolutely this very late stage. appreciate the difficulties caused by the transmission of I think that I was awarded a medal of honour by the electricity that is generated in other ways. opponents of the Cefn Croes wind farm when that I am particularly for the Minister to say what has project was proposed in the early years of this century. happened to the KEMA study, which I believe was due It was during my first term in Parliament and the to be produced on 24 or 25 January. It was specifically development was due to be in Ceredigion, before my about the undergrounding of electricity transmission. hon. Friend the Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) The report would have been two months in the making was the MP for that constituency. I was criticised by if it had been produced in January. It is now nearly the then MP for Ceredigion for involving myself in the three months late; three months is longer than it was opposition to that project. meant to take to produce the report. My concern is that perhaps those interested in the results were not happy Glyn Davies: I thank the hon. Member for giving me with the outcome and perhaps the report is being rewritten the opportunity to make a point that I wanted to make in some way to fit other things. I hope that the Minister in my opening speech but missed out. His reference to can explain to us what happened to that study. It is Cefn Croes is important. Does he agree that the Cefn particularly important because, as I have said to him Croes wind farm area could easily have been a national before, the Holford rules, which were written in 1959, park, and that it is purely an accident of history that it and the Electricity Act 1989 are both out of date and is not? North and south of that area are two national out of step with what is happening. We should consider parks, Brecon Beacons national park and Snowdonia the whole-life costs of any development, particularly national park. The idea of making the area in between a the development of pylons; that is what the Holford national park was considered, but because things turned rules guide us towards. against the public support for national parks, there was I hope that the Government’s national policy statement no Cambrian mountains national park. It is still talked on energy transmission will allow people to be heard. about a lot and it is still a long-term possibility, but we Even after inadequate consultation by the national grid, are talking about land that is the equivalent of national several things are absolutely clear at parish council park land. level, district council level and county council level. First, there was recognition that the consultation had Roger Williams: The hon. Member makes a very been inadequate. Secondly, it was absolutely clear that good point. I have been involved with the national park the communities in the area that I am talking about—the movement for many years, and there is indeed a lot of area between Hinkley Point and Avonmouth, which is countryside in and around Wales that would qualify for only 37 miles of transmission route if one goes directly, national park status if it was looked at again. The point which of course would lead to undersea transmission—are that I want to make about Cefn Croes is that it has not utterly against what is happening. Pylons would devastate delivered the energy that was promised. I was pleased to our chances of remaining an area that is attractive to object to that project and I am pleased that I objected tourism. to TAN 8 when it was put forward. However, we are in a I ask the Minister yet again to address the many very difficult position, and I would not want to promise concerns that I have raised. I hope that in the long run people that the issue can be resolved easily. Retrospectively we will get an agreeable new way of transmitting our changing planning policy as a result of planning applications electricity that does not damage, in any way, parts of does not seem a very prudent way to pursue planning Wales or Wells. I thank him for his attention. policy. Although I will not be present in Westminster Hall when the Minister responds to the debate, I want to read his response later. 10.26 am Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): It is a delight to 10.22 am serve under your stewardship this morning, Mrs Riordan. Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): I want to add briefly to the I congratulate the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire comments that I have made in interventions. I, too, have (Glyn Davies) on introducing this debate, and on speaking another commitment in about seven minutes’ time, and eloquently and passionately on behalf of his constituents. I therefore apologise to the Minister for the fact that I I know that the issue of wind farms has engaged him for will not be around to hear his comments. However, he quite some time and continues to do so. He has made knows that I have had a great interest in the subject for a that clear today, and I am sure that the Minister will period of time. respond in great depth to the debate. The Minister will also know that in rural Somerset, I also congratulate the other Members who have we have the levels, the moors, and the rolling Mendip spoken—my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick hills. Part of the land in my constituency is an area of and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) and the hon. Members outstanding natural beauty, and there are sites of special for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski), for scientific interest. A great deal of the land on the levels Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) and for Wells is under higher-level stewardship, and the farmers there (Tessa Munt). Who would have thought that a debate attract European funding and assistance for the way on wind farms in mid-Wales would have stimulated that they keep that land and the environmental benefits contributions from Scotland to Somerset and all points that it provides to the community generally. We also in between? That shows the pulling power of the hon. had a potential world heritage site; it would have been Member for Montgomeryshire, even when he is on 361WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 362WH

[Huw Irranca-Davies] The Minister has spoken not only about renewables and the offshore development off the north-east east crutches; I also wish him well in his recovery. As we coast of England, but about a number of technologies. strolled, chatting, to Westminster Hall today, he told me How will he ensure, if this development progresses to that things were going well and that he would be up and the scale that has been outlined, that the absolute running very soon. I say “well done” to him for that. maximum benefit in the form of local and regional I turn to the nub of the debate. This is a difficult economic impact accrues, and that the benefits are not situation, both for individual MPs representing their leaked out of the area? How will he deliver on what he constituents and for the Minister. We wrestled with the has previously said—that he wants these developments same issues when we were in government. We are committed to create jobs and to input into the local and regional to local interests and local democracy, and at the same economies? If the development is to go ahead, that time to national interests and national democracy, whereby needs to happen. parties stand on manifestos and accept commitments to Can the Minister also update us on the progress renewables and climate change targets. How do we of the transport routing, an issue that has caused square that triangle? How do we ensure that the voice of great concern to people in the hon. Member for people at a local level—including my own voice and Montgomeryshire’s constituency and those of other that of my constituents—is heard, while ensuring that Members? Will there definitely be another round of we deliver a national imperative in terms of energy consultation in autumn this year so that people, including security, energy affordability and carbon targets? Indeed, Members, will have a further opportunity to comment we must also deliver on our global ambitions to be a on the route alignment and other aspects of the project? world leader in renewables. At the outset, I must point out that recently we had a The issue should not be rushed through. Can the very good Westminster Hall debate on wind farms; it Minister update us on the delay in the progress of the focused on the Localism Bill and so on. I will turn to national policy statements, both generally and in terms that Bill in a moment. There were 20-odd contributors of transmission and the UK energy infrastructure? We to that earlier debate, and I think that a couple of the all know that our 75-year-old infrastructure is exactly Members who are here today also attended that debate. that. It was a landmark when it was rolled out 75 years I will not waste everyone’s time by re-rehearsing the ago, but it is not now fit for either what we are trying to arguments that we went through, but it would be fair to do with renewables or what we need to do in developing say that a fair degree of scepticism towards onshore a smart grid. The Minister and I agree on that, so can he wind farms was demonstrated in that debate. I do not give us an update on what is happening with the national share that scepticism, and I will explain why in a moment. policy statements? They have been slightly delayed, and I recognise the need to have local input into these it would be good to hear when we will see them and decisions, but I do not share the scepticism, in various what input parliamentarians will have. degrees, that some people have about wind farms. Let The crux of the matter appears in a phrase that, me explain why. curiously, has been hurled at the Labour party by Conservative Members, despite our very best efforts Daniel Kawczynski: Regardless of whether one believes over more than a decade in government. They have said in these wind farms, does the hon. Gentleman not agree that we had a “wasted decade” of renewables, largely that it is preferable to have them offshore rather than because of what they saw as the failure to roll out, at onshore? speed and at scale, onshore wind. That phrase has been used if not by the Minister, certainly by his colleagues, Huw Irranca-Davies: There is an interesting and live and in recent months. debate about not only the appropriate way to deliver energy security in the UK, to which renewables definitely I acknowledge that the Labour Government did not contribute—people often say that they are not part of succeed in rolling out onshore wind at the scale and our energy security—but the most affordable way to do speed that we had anticipated. Curiously, that was very so. That debate has continued in the past few days, and much because there was strong local input into the it addresses that very question: should it be onshore or decisions, which either slowed things down or deterred offshore, or should other types of technology be involved? investors from staying the course and developing onshore That is the sort of debate that we should have in wind to any great scale. That is why, before we left Parliament. If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I government, we put in place a huge expansion of offshore will come to that later. wind energy, which is much more expensive. Before I do, I want, on behalf of the hon. Member That cost falls, of course, on us. There is a cost for Montgomeryshire and other Members who have implication, but the plan will now deliver if the Government spoken today, to ask some questions about mid-Wales hold true, as they are doing. They have delivered on the and the routing of the transmission. Can the Minister £60 million for the investment in ports infrastructure, provide an update on the consultations, and on any which has led to four major companies, including Siemens outcomes from them, including any amendments being and Marconi, coming in and saying that they will put considered to plans or to the routing and the strategic the jobs into those ports, and manufacture and develop optioneering report? Will he comment on any consideration offshore. That is fantastic, and it is because we were not that has been given, or is likely to be given, to the able, because of local input, to go as fast as we wanted community benefits? Such benefits were remarked on with onshore. One of the critical decisions here, not by the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire, and I wonder only for mid-Wales but generally, is whether the Government whether the Minister will update us, on the individual will now see onshore as an area for expansion over the developments or on the grid transmission development. next five to 10 years. 363WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 364WH

Glyn Davies: I am enjoying listening to what seems to debate, of what proportion of our renewables contribution be a very fair and reasonable assessment of the position. onshore wind will form? The 20-odd Members who In this debate I, and others, do not have a party interest; spoke in that debate all saw the Localism Bill as a way my interest is purely that of my constituency. I know to stop, not help, onshore development of wind, with that people in my party will disagree with me and that the exception of one Member who was outspoken in there are different views right across the parties, but favour of onshore wind and thought that it would be surely we can all agree that if onshore wind will be part wonderful. of the overall picture of dealing with our renewable Will the Minister comment on underpinnings? Late energy targets and meeting our commitments to the last night, we heard that one crucial thing underpinning European Union and beyond, we have to do it in the what we will do with renewables and where we head on best place. carbon commitments is our response to the fourth TAN8—technical advice note 8—does not do that. carbon budget of the Committee on Climate Change. If All it does is identify an area, without giving proper we can bolt that down, we can decide the most affordable thought to access. It does not even allow onshore wind way to fulfil our climate change commitments and farms to be built in the best places. It is policy guidance, develop renewables. If not, we are rudderless. from the National Assembly for Wales, that is totally Last night, Cabinet discussions were leaked showing prescriptive about where developments should go, and clear disagreements between the Secretary of State for which completely takes away power from local planning Energy and Climate Change, who seems to be for authorities—and, indeed, from the people. accepting the fourth carbon budget and being legally bound to the Committee’s recommendations, and the Huw Irranca-Davies: I understand that the hon. Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, Gentleman, in securing this debate, has spoken directly the Treasury and the Secretary of State for Transport, for his constituents, and in my opening remarks I tried who oppose it. Unless we can pin down those matters, to raise some issues that are of direct concern. The we are rudderless, and this debate will be somewhat debate is also underpinned, however, by where we are meaningless. We will be willing to change, from Government heading with onshore wind, and I therefore want to put to Government and Administration to Administration, some questions to the Minister. I do not want to trespass; how hard we drive forward, and whether we take our I know that the hon. Gentleman is a former Member of foot off the pedal. Will the Minister clarify whether the the great institution that is the National Assembly for Committee on Climate Change report that underpins Wales, and I do not want to tread on the Assembly’s the issue will be accepted? toes—not least when, as far as I know, Ministers are not yet in place. Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): I would like a The Minister is aware of, and the Opposition are tiny bit of clarification on the Labour party’s point of committed to, the renewable energy directives. We have view about the budgetary proposal. If the hon. Gentleman a commitment to generate 15% of our energy from is saying that Labour opposes accepting the proposal, renewables by 2020. Interestingly, in the past week that is a fantastic piece of news that liberates the Policy Exchange has made its view clear, describing Government and gives them plenty of scope to move in wind as an “unnecessarily expensive” part of the mix a more localist direction. My fear is that the people on for energy security and affordability. I know that that the Committee are what we in this country call the think-tank does not determine Government policy, but progressive majority; we now know where they live, traditionally it has had a huge influence on it, and its thanks to the referendum on alternative voting. view contrasts with what the Secretary of State recently, I would like to see a load of turbine proposals for and rightly, said—that unless we make use both of wind Cambridge, Oxford, Camden and so on. I think that and other renewables, we will be held hostage to rising those people would change their minds pretty damned external prices, particularly of oil, as we increasingly quickly when they saw the size of them. What is the rely on oil and gas input. Labour party’s position on the fourth carbon budget of Will the Minister take the opportunity today to distance the Committee on Climate Change? himself from that Policy Exchange report? If we go down the route of saying that wind is now unnecessarily Huw Irranca-Davies: I hope that that is not the expensive, it is not only the investors—to whom the Government’s position on the matter. When we were in hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire referred—who government, we appointed successive Secretaries of State will suffer, but our renewables commitments and our and established the Department of Energy and Climate climate change commitments. Change to bring those themes together, and we accepted The Committee on Climate Change report that came the reports of the Committee on Climate Change. I out a few days ago recommends, interestingly, that we hope—I look at the Minister as I say this—that the hon. continue strongly with wind as part of the mix, that we Gentleman’s intervention is not an indication that the look at scaling back on offshore, because of the costs, Government, under pressure from Back Benchers or and that we push harder on onshore. Does the Minister others, will make a U-turn away from our climate agree? We had a debate here recently in which he spoke change commitment. sensibly about the future of onshore wind, saying that I want to hear the Minister’s response, and I have more would be delivered by the Localism Bill. taken too long, so these will be my final remarks. The Will the Minister reiterate that he does not see the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire mentioned solar Localism Bill as an impediment to onshore wind? If it and wave and tidal power; I agree that we must do more brings community gain, will we see more onshore with solar and much more with wave and tidal. If he development of wind farms throughout the UK? If so, were back in the Assembly now, I am sure that he would does he have some idea, as I asked in the previous support the initiatives that they announced before 365WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 366WH

[Huw Irranca-Davies] that regard, and did not see enough of the opportunities elsewhere. That is why we have put additional focus on dissolution to push forward wave and tidal power within developing marine and tidal power as technologies that Wales, as was done in Scotland. We must do so in can make a big contribution in the decades to come. We England as well, but we have a way to go. At the also have strong ambitions for offshore wind and are moment, I am sorry to say, UK Government investment implementing measures to take it forward, alongside is in a hiatus. We have lost the grant funding mechanism biomass, bio-energy, new nuclear power without public for marine and tidal within England, and there is a subsidy, and carbon capture and storage. We recognise feeling in the wave and tidal industry that things will that some low-carbon technologies are not as cheap as not go forward. Solar is in disarray, and the Minister onshore wind, but the costs will decrease over time knows it. We await the end of the feed-in tariff fast-track as the technologies become more mature. It is crucial, review to see what will happen. as I hope my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury My final question to the Minister is this. Will he and Atcham will agree, that we maintain that diverse address those issues, particular to the mid-Wales situation, energy mix. that relate to Shropshire and other places as well? Where are we on onshore wind as part of the renewable Daniel Kawczynski: One reason why our national mix? Is policy changing, as the hon. Members for policy is perhaps not as developed as we would like is Brecon and Radnorshire and for Daventry (Chris Heaton- that the previous Labour Administration had, I believe, Harris) hinted, or are the Government still as committed nine Energy Ministers in 11 years. The constant changing as we always were to a mix that includes onshore wind of Ministers by Labour Prime Ministers impeded progress as well as offshore wind, wave and tidal power and within the Department. I look forward to seeing the microgeneration? Minister in his position for many years to come and wish him success. Returning briefly to mid-Wales, I will send the Minister a map of the national grid, with 10.44 am which I am sure he is familiar. The developers could not The Minister of State, Department of Energy and have found a site further away from the national grid Climate Change (Charles Hendry): It is a great pleasure than the proposed site if they had tried. It is transporting to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Riordan, at the the energy to the national grid will affect the most end of a fascinating and stimulating debate. I congratulate people. my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) on securing it, and on how he introduced it. I Charles Hendry: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for am glad that he has overruled his surgeon’s advice and his kind comments. I have been in office for nearly a come here to ensure that his constituents’ voices on this year, so by past records, I am up for replacement. issue are heard clearly. There is no doubting the passion, I think that it was actually 16 Ministers in 13 years. I commitment and integrity that he brings to the debate. hope that I will have the chance to stay around a little I am also pleased that, as the hon. Member for longer to ensure that we end up in a sensible place on Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) said, the issue transcends these policy matters. national boundaries. We have heard from Scotland and The hon. Member for Ogmore asked about the fourth parts of England. It is not just a debate about mid-Wales; carbon budget. He knows very well that I will not it has spread to every part of this country. We have no comment on leaked or supposedly leaked documents, doubt whatever about the strength of feeling represented. but the Government understand totally the need to take I reassure him at the outset that I believe that onshore the issues extremely seriously and put in place a robust wind has a role to play, but it must be in the right set of targets and mechanisms to drive forward our location, and it must have more democratic support. We ambition and our ability to respond. I will reply more regularly hear hon. Members of all parties express the directly in a moment to the point made by my hon. feeling that too often, onshore wind is imposed on Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham on the communities that do not want it. I am keen to ensure important grid issues. that we address that democratic deficit constructively in It is clear from all the studies that I have seen that the our plans. United Kingdom has some of the best wind resources I am grateful to the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick in Europe. Wind turbines tend to generate electricity and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) and my hon. Friends about 70% to 80% of the time—not necessarily at full the Members for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel capacity, but during that time, they are turning and Kawczynski), for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams), generating some electricity. Wind, unlike most other and for Wells (Tessa Munt) for their contributions, as sources of electricity generation, is a free and unlimited well as to those who intervened in this debate. I think source of fuel. It is also reliable overall—the likelihood that we agree broadly that there is no question but that is that low wind speeds will affect half the country for we must become a low-carbon economy; I welcome the fewer than 100 hours a year. The chance of turbines Opposition spokesman’s supportive comments on that. shutting down due to very high wind speeds is low. Becoming a low-carbon economy will require enormous Onshore wind is one of the most cost-effective and work and a great deal of investment. Perhaps £200 billion established renewable technologies. We have to make will need to be spent in the next 10 to 15 years on new sure that we take account of the needs of consumers by generation, transmission and distribution, so that we ensuring that they do not pay more than is necessary to can build secure supplies of low-carbon generation. decarbonise our electricity supplies. We can do that by It is also absolutely clear that we cannot rely too making sure that onshore wind has a continuing role. heavily on one form of low-carbon technology. The last However, although it is clear that onshore wind should Government were perhaps a bit of a one-stick golfer in continue to be part of the solution to the massive 367WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales)10 MAY 2011 Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 368WH energy security and low-carbon challenges that we face want more or less; it means that I want communities to as a nation, it needs more democratic legitimacy than it decide how they want to develop. Once they have seen has today, and I intend to ensure that that happens. what will be available to them, the package of benefits We have to protect communities from unacceptable and the direct support that will come to their communities, developments. We have already started to review the they will rightly get involved in and make those decisions. issues that often cause concern to local communities. Clearly, a few of the large developments will still need We recently published a report on shadow flicker from to come to Ministers once the Infrastructure Planning wind turbines—an issue that the hon. Member for Ayr, Commission has been abolished, so those will be national Carrick and Cumnock mentioned—and we have issues. What we are keen to see is appropriate development commissioned a report on wind turbine noise. We must in appropriate locations with community support. That now go much further. Wind turbines should be positioned will be one of the most significant changes under this where the wind resource is strongest, so this year we are Administration. introducing a full review of the funding mechanism of To answer a point made by the hon. Member for Ayr, the renewables obligation certificates to ensure that Carrick and Cumnock, the Localism Bill will provide subsidies will not make it attractive to put wind farms in specific measures to enable communities to shape unsuitable locations. The funding mechanism must also development in their own locality. That is clearly a reflect reductions in costs. matter for England rather than Scotland, but we hope The cost of grid connections also means that there is that the new Scottish Government will look at whether an incentive to put wind farms closest to where the they can follow in some of those areas. electricity is needed, rather than where the wind is We have heard much about the issues relating to strongest. My hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury technical advice note 8, and I understand the concerns and Atcham has made an extremely important point that have been expressed. The process is carried out by about the disconnection between areas identified for the Welsh Assembly Government, and TAN 8 identifies development and accessibility to the national grid, and seven strategic search areas where major wind farms, the impact that that has on communities. That is why which are defined as those over 20 MW, should be Ofgem’s fundamental review of the way in which located. Three of those—areas B, C and D—are in transmission charges are levied is so important. It is mid-Wales, which is why we have seen more applications also why the Government made clear at the start of for development in those areas than elsewhere. A review Ofgem’s review that the transmission charging regime of that approach would have to be carried out by the must deliver security of supply as well as low-carbon Welsh Assembly Government. As a Minister who may generation. It is the Government’s responsibility to be required to make some of those decisions, I know ensure that the charges that consumers pay for renewable that we are talking about not a binding requirement but energy are as efficient as possible. a material consideration, and applications outside those Most importantly of all, there needs to be a new areas can also be considered. relationship between wind farms and the communities A related issue—I know that this is of concern to my that host them, as my hon. Friend the Member for hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne)—is Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) said. At present, too often a the knock-on consequences for the grid infrastructure community can see what it will lose but not what it will of the way in which those areas have been chosen, and gain by having a wind farm in its midst. That is why we the possible impact in England and other areas outside have been exploring the financial mechanisms that should those covered by TAN 8. That is a material issue that emerge to support communities that decide to host has to be looked at in more detail, because one simply wind farms—particularly in England, where we have cannot put in place a new development without the grid more responsibility for these matters—and that to do infrastructure to support it. That is the issue to which I more to encourage such community developments. now turn. “Community energy online” is a scheme whereby local There is no existing high-voltage network in mid-Wales, groups can come together and look at what will be the so the necessary infrastructure will have to be built. The best renewable energy schemes for their community. I options are currently being developed by the National am absolutely convinced that we have to address the Grid Company and SP Manweb. The applications for issue of democratic accountability and public acceptability. those connections will be decided by the appropriate The more these schemes can be seen to come from the planning authorities, which may include Ministers, so I ground up—that is not intended to be a pun—and to be am constrained in what I can say on specific issues. developed with community support, the more we can However, to respond to a point made by the hon. deal with the democratic deficit. Member for Ogmore, we expect a further consultation on specific routes to be completed by the end of the Huw Irranca-Davies: I thank the Minister for giving year. We can learn more about how that consultation way. I have a straightforward question. Given what the process works. I understand that my hon. Friend the Minister has just said, the changes that the Localism Member for Ludlow is concerned that sometimes it Bill will make and the desire to address the democratic involves the National Grid Company and not the developers deficit, does he intend there to be more development of together. I think that people involved in the consultation onshore wind than in the past decade and more? Is he process would prefer to see all the parties coming together. hopeful that more communities will take up onshore The report commissioned by KEMA and the Institution wind development? of Engineering and Technology is being refined—not by us, but by the organisations themselves—to make Charles Hendry: I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman’s sure that it takes full account of the data collection question shows that he does not quite understand localism. available and the technical analysis. I hope that it will be Localism does not mean that I, the Minister, say that I published soon. It will certainly give us a much more 369WH Wind Farms (Mid-Wales) 10 MAY 2011 370WH

[Charles Hendry] Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles factual basis for understanding the costs of undergrounding in appropriate parts of the country, and of putting the 11 am grid connections undersea. The enormous number of Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): I parliamentary questions that I have been asked and am delighted to serve under your chairmanship this letters that I have received on the subject as part of a morning, Mrs Riordan, and I am particularly grateful national campaign mean that I am in no doubt whatever to Mr Speaker for granting me this debate on the about how strongly my hon. Friends and other Members Government’s policy on ultra low-carbon emission vehicles. feel about the grid connection issues. I know that the National Grid Company takes the issue extremely seriously. There are four main reasons why the issue is so It is required to look at both the costing and the important and matters for the future of this country. environmental and social issues. The first reason is about tackling climate change. We know that the Government are committed in law to a Ofgem’s recent transmission price control proposals, 34% reduction in emissions by 2020 and an 80% cut by known as RIIO, or “revenue = incentives + innovation 2050. Clearly, ultra low-carbon emission vehicles, including + outputs”, include incentives that should allow visual electric cars, will be part of the solution to helping to amenity to be properly assessed in conjunction with the reduce emissions, but we also need to have low-carbon planning process. We hope that the national policy electricity. It is no good just reducing the tailpipe emissions statements can be published in the near future. As the if the electricity that powers ultra low-carbon vehicles is hon. Member for Ogmore knows, we are holding them fossil fuel and dirty. That is a given. I do not know back until we have the interim report on new nuclear. whether Professor David MacKay is still advising the The lessons from Fukushima are being looked at by Government, but he has made that point very powerfully the nuclear regulator, but I hope that we will be in a in his book, “Sustainable Energy—Without the Hot position to publish those shortly. Air,” and it is important that we mention it when Finally, on construction traffic and the impact it may introducing the debate. As I say, doing something about have, I am aware that the road infrastructure was not climate change is the first reason the issue is important, designed for the sort of transportation in which huge as ultra low-carbon emission vehicles are clearly part of turbines are carried through small villages on small that. country roads. There has to be a solution to the problem. The second reason is that the whole sector has massive Individual developments have to address the issue in a potential to create growth, wealth, jobs and employment constructive way. There has to be a satisfactory conclusion for this country. Just under 2.5 million of our fellow before a development can take place. citizens are looking for work, and ultra low-carbon I hope that I have responded to many of the issues emission vehicles are part of a massive industry of the raised. This has been a fascinating and important debate. future. Shai Agassi of Better Place has spoken of a Again, I am most grateful to my hon. Friend the Member $2 trillion-a-year industry. If the United Kingdom can for Montgomeryshire for defying medical advice to be increase its percentage share of that even by a few here to raise such a critical issue. percentage points, many more jobs across the country will be created for all our constituents. Low-carbon growth and the jobs that come from it are absolutely vital. The third reason why the issue is important is that ultra low-carbon emission vehicles are a crucial part of the United Kingdom’s response to a world with less secure energy supplies. We have only to look around the middle east at the moment to see that that is very much the case. The fourth reason the matter is vital, which will probably speak most strongly to our constituents, is that it will allow us to do something about the absolutely exorbitant cost of going to a petrol station and putting petrol or diesel in a car. Our constituents—and, indeed, we—are all paying cripplingly high prices to drive around. If we can sort out the generating issues, ultra low-carbon emission vehicles provide the potential for much cheaper motoring. If any of us were looking for a slogan on which to be elected at the next election, “Cheaper motoring” must be high up the list and would resonate strongly with our constituents. I have given four powerful reasons why the issue matters incredibly. Two reasons I would particularly pick out are the wealth and jobs we need to create, and the cost of motoring to our constituents. To give credit where credit is due, the Government have been active in this area. The Office for Low Emission Vehicles was set up under the previous Government and is a collaborative effort between the Department for Transport, which is the Minister’s Department, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the 371WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 372WH

Department of Energy and Climate Change. It has a Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): This is a very important combined budget of more than £400 million. There is debate for the reason noted by both my hon. Friends: also the Technology Strategy Board, which is a non- the opportunity the sector offers to manufacturing. departmental public body sponsored by the Department However, a problem that needs to be solved is the for Business, Innovation and Skills, and the plugged-in supply of the skills necessary to develop the technology places grant, which is designed to provide the necessary that we have. In this country, an insufficient number of infrastructure. I will talk about that grant in a moment. people have skills in the automotive sector that relate to In addition, the industry’s own automotive innovation electronics. That must be put right because that area and growth team led to the creation of the Automotive will make up a larger part of any future vehicle designed Council UK, which is a joint industry and BIS body. to meet very strict low-carbon emissions. We must There clearly has been action and there is cross- address the skills issue in the sector. Government co-ordination, as there should be because Andrew Selous: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If one Department on its own cannot make this happen. he will bear with me, I intend to touch on exactly the That is excellent. I am glad that the people who need to issue of skills that he has, properly, raised. He is not the be talking to each other in Government are doing so. only one raising that issue. The Institution of Mechanical My central question to the Minister, who I suppose is Engineers and others are very concerned that we are answering on behalf of all the Departments involved, behind where we should be in the number of qualified is: are we being ambitious enough for the United Kingdom? technicians, the people who understand the new technology I very much want the United Kingdom to be a success and the training of apprentices in this important area. story at the heart of this massive and soon to be hugely The issue goes back even further than that to the growing global industry. number of physics teachers that we need in our schools; Let us consider where we are at the moment. The the number we have is far too low. It will be difficult for Department for Transport’s figures show that there are the Minister when he responds to the debate, because only 57,000 vehicles in vehicle excise duty band A, that issue touches on such a wide area of Government which is the lowest emission category. That figure is, in policy, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right. fact, double the number of vehicles that were in the I was making the point that, were the United Kingdom category in 2009, so the industry is clearly growing fast. to be as ambitious as Japan—I do not see any reason However, I remind hon. Members present this morning why we should not be, as the industrial revolution took and those who will read the transcript of the debate that place in this country, we were the workshop of the there are 28.4 million cars in the United Kingdom and world and I believe we can be again—that would lead to that 57,000 is therefore a fairly small number. a figure of 5.7 million ultra low-carbon emission vehicles The Government’s Committee on Climate Change on our roads by 2020, rather than the 1.7 million that has recommended that we should aim to have 1.7 million the Government are aiming for. My question for the electric vehicles by 2020. Will the Minister say if that is Minister, therefore, is: why are we being less ambitious what the Government are committed to achieving and than Japan? how the numbers will stack up in increasing the 57,000, It is true that the United Kingdom has had some which we have in 2011, to the 1.7 million, which the notable successes; for example, Sunderland’s anticipated committee says that it wants in 2020? There will need to production of 60,000 electric vehicles a year, starting in be very sharp increases over the coming nine years to 2013. I would note again, however, that those 60,000 get that far. The figure of 1.7 million cars is just under vehicles a year are equivalent to some 2% of the 3 million 6% of the 28.4 million cars in the United Kingdom at internal combustion engines that the United Kingdom the moment. In the excellent Parliamentary Office of currently makes every year. That is not to say that we Science and Technology note attached to the debate cannot make greater progress with the efficiency of the pack, I was interested to read that Japan has set a target internal combustion engine—I will say a bit about that of 20% of next-generation cars by 2020—the same date. towards the end of my remarks—but I think that colleagues will appreciate the scale of the challenge that we face to even get to the Committee on Climate Change’s figure Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): I congratulate of 1.7 million electric vehicles on our roads by 2020. my hon. Friend on securing the debate; he is making a strong and compelling case. The benefits that low-carbon When we look across the Atlantic ocean, we see that the United States is investing some $2.4 billion to vehicles can have in reducing CO2 and helping the environment are undoubted, but does he agree that the support the next generation of electric vehicles. We research and development and manufacture of such know that in China there is massive investment in new vehicles in this country is a real chance for us not just to battery technology—I am thinking of companies such broaden our manufacturing base once more, but to as BYD, which stands for “Build YourDreams”. Warren rebalance the UK economy? Buffett already has a 10% stake—normally a sure-fire sign of a company that will do well. That is the competition that the United Kingdom is looking at around the Andrew Selous: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. world. We are already strong in a number of the areas he mentioned in his question. We start from a good base, Mr Marcus Jones: Does my hon. Friend agree that but he is absolutely right that the potential is massive. Ministers from the Department for Transport need to My prime purpose in initiating the debate is to allow us make substantial representations to the Department for to play our role as parliamentarians in holding the Business, Innovation and Skills, regarding where the Government to account and to ensure that we do not regional growth fund is spent, in order to try to support lose out on the potential for us to fully benefit from our low-carbon industry, particularly in the automotive what he is talking about. sector? 373WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 374WH

Andrew Selous: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is, however, a tipping point that comes with the The automotive sector is very important to the United introduction of new technology. When there are the Kingdom not just for the cars we produce, but for the advantages of economies of scale—mass production number of engines, the number of smaller engineering and so on—prices come down as new technology comes companies, the suppliers, and the technology and in. More people buy these things, so they are cheaper to engineering base that supports that. It is vital to the produce and so on. Shai Agassi, in a speech that I read country’s economic future. I indicated earlier that I am recently, anticipates a tipping point around 2015 when reassured that those lines of communication across the economics start to stack up. If that is the case, Government are there, but we need to see delivery from things could change very quickly, which is why I raise those conversations, as he has rightly pointed out. the issues of scale and whether the United Kingdom will be able to meet the level of demand that I anticipate. I will continue looking at what else is happening If, for all of our constituents, an ultra low-carbon around the world a bit longer, because it is important to emission vehicle is cheaper than a conventional fossil put what the United Kingdom does in context. As far as fuel internal combustion engine, we will all want those I can see, Israel plans to be the most ambitious of all. It vehicles straight away, because we will be fed up with intends to rid its entire road transport sector of dependence paying the higher costs of motoring. Those issues of on oil by 2020. That is massively ambitious if one scale, and whether the United Kingdom is able to thinks about where Israel is in the world and its geopolitical provide that amount of cars and make money from relations with some of its neighbours. I think that we those huge levels of sales, will be a significant issue. can all think of particular reasons why Israel is going down that route, but none the less it is deeply impressive. What is the Government’s view on the economics of investing in their own fleets across various Departments? Israel is choosing a different model, I think it is fair to Examples might include NHS delivery lorries or Royal say, from that of the United Kingdom. It is looking to Mail vans that go back to the same place every night, sign up to the Better Place concept, which will largely where they could be recharged; they might have a set involve changing the engines in cars—engines will be route or series of routes and are excellent cases for swapped over. The depleted battery is taken out of a car conversion into electric vehicles. What progress are the and in under a minute, I understand, a new, fully Government making in ensuring that their commercial charged battery supply is put in and one can carry on fleets in particular consist of ultra low-carbon vehicles— driving. In less time, therefore, than it currently takes to whether the electric or the plug-in variety? fill up with petrol at the pump, the car can be on the road again—a fully-charged vehicle that will travel another Mr Marcus Jones: I thank my hon. Friend for giving 100 miles. way again. He makes an important point about It is worth mentioning the context of the debate, Departments, local authorities and so on investing in because of Israel’s scale and ambition. The Minister electric vehicles. Does he agree that it is extremely will probably have good and valid reasons, which I important that, where practicable, we procure such would accept, to say that it is probably not right for the vehicles from British manufacturers? United Kingdom to go down that particular route. For various infrastructure reasons, it is probably right that Andrew Selous: I very much agree. I, too, am passionate we do not. If we are not going down that route, however, about home-made British production. We ought to buy how do we in the United Kingdom achieve that level of British as often as we can. We are all subject to the transformational change? How do the Government envisage so-called OJEU rules—named after the Official Journal United Kingdom companies, some of which were of the European Union—under which public bodies mentioned by my hon. Friends, taking advantage of the must go through strict and unbiased procurement £1.3 billion loan scheme for the development of low-carbon procedures. Sometimes, therefore, we have our police technologies that is available from Europe? We need to driving around in Volvos or other foreign-made cars. ensure that we receive our fair share of that money. When I go to France, Germany or Italy, however, I hardly ever see French, German or Italian police officers When new technology comes to the fore, initially it is in anything other than a car made in their home country— clearly expensive and there is low take-up. I think that if likewise for fire-fighting equipment and so on. we are honest, at the moment electric cars are—perhaps I postulate to the Minister that this country might be I am slightly parodying—for rich idealists. Frankly, the a little too rigorous in applying those OJEU rules. We economics do not quite stack up at the moment. I have a fine automotive industry that makes excellent illustrate that by looking at the on-the-road cost of the vehicles and, frankly, the police will catch no more new Nissan Leaf, which will be produced in Sunderland. criminals by driving around in Volvos and BMWs rather That is an excellent vehicle. I was privileged to see one than in fine, British-made cars. close to Parliament recently. It is a five-door hatchback—a very nice-looking car. It will be made in Britain, which We digress; I will hastily return to the point, before is fantastic. Its on-the-road price, however, is £30,990. you bring me back to it, Mrs Riordan. However, I am The Government’s £5,000 plug-in car grant, which is an grateful for the intervention of my hon. Friend the excellent initiative that I commend, brings the price Member for Nuneaton. down to £25,990 but, for me, that is a very expensive The Department for Transport asked whether 2011 car. I do not know what sort of cars my hon. Friends would be the year in which the electric car takes off. drive, but to me that would be an awful lot of money. I There is certainly increasing interest, which is tremendous, expect that for many of my constituents that would be and I commend the Government for the excellent £5,000 much more than they would spend on a car. Frankly, I subsidy. My view of the economics is that we are not do not think that they would get the payback from the quite at the right point yet, but we will be very soon. cheaper costs of motoring after that level of investment. Lewis Booth, the chief financial officer of Ford, has 375WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 376WH asked for how long Governments will be subsidising less demand on the national grid, that is much cheaper. electric vehicles. If the Minister shed any light on that That reduction in the energy cost can be important, and issue, that would be helpful. In this early phase, private it is where smart meters come in. I am interested in industry needs certainty for the future, particularly in whether the Minister will be able to enlighten us further planning. on that aspect of Government policy. Philippe Varin, the chief executive of Peugeot, has I am concerned about the lack of standardisation of said that the European Union’s research and development charging points in the European Union. Indeed, why support for electric vehicles is too cumbersome and can we not have standard charging points around the complicated, which is a concern. If we are to compete whole world? In the past, technologies have battled against Japan, China and America, we in the European things out. With the video or the DVD, a common Union and this country need to get our act together in format for one worldwide product was arrived at eventually. research and development funding. That should be the case for charging points, in Europe I was delighted to read that the Department for at least. Many British people will want to drive their Business, Innovation and Skills Minister, my hon. Friend electric cars to France or elsewhere in Europe for summer the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), said holidays, skiing or whatever, and they need to be able to in a departmental press release that the UK was Europe’s charge while they are there. The European Union could leading producer of ultra low-carbon vehicles. That do something useful and practical for our constituents. made fantastic reading. I have already spoken of the What representations is the United Kingdom making to production due to start shortly, or in early 2013, at the ensure standardised charging throughout Europe? Sunderland plant. I hope we can maintain that position. Earlier, my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Neil I am conscious that France, with Peugeot and Renault, Carmichael) rightly mentioned training the work force. is also ambitious in the area of ultra low-carbon vehicle None of what I have been discussing will happen unless production. The country has a plentiful supply of low-cost we have the skilled technicians in this country; unless nuclear electricity, and it views itself as having a chance we get it right, we will lose out to other countries that to challenge the dominance of the Germans in the have invested more and have an appropriately trained European automotive industry. I repeat that everyone work force. The Institution of Mechanical Engineers is here is ambitious for Britain; we were the workshop of worried about the lack of apprentices with the skills to the world, and the industrial revolution took place here. work on electric vehicles, particularly in smaller businesses I want us to be right at the front and centre, not running that may not be able to afford to train apprentices. How behind any other European country in this massive will that be rectified? It said that about 10,000 additional industry of the future. apprentices are needed in this area of electronic I move on to the whole issue of charging points. It is manufacturing to take advantage of and to satisfy the all very well having an ultra low-carbon, electric vehicle— demand that is surely coming. whether a hybrid or a pure electric one such as the I am interested in the Government’s attitude to Nissan Leaf—but if there is nowhere to plug it in when hydrogen-powered vehicles. I read carefully the note on a longish journey, the problem is that it will grind to from the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology, a halt. which states of hydrogen fuel cells: Again, the Government are active on that issue, and I commend them for that. We recently had the announcement “This is a low-carbon form of transport if the hydrogen is generated using electricity from low-carbon sources.” of a £20 million plugged-in places grant to provide more than 4,000 charging points in the midlands, Greater I made that point at the start of the debate, and I want Manchester, the east of England, Scotland and Northern to check whether that is the Government’s view. Professor Ireland, building on an earlier scheme in London and David MacKay, who was a Government adviser—I Milton Keynes. Yesterday, I checked with my own local should be grateful if the Minister told us whether he is authority and found that my constituency of South still advising them—and who is an eminent professor of West Bedfordshire does not include a single charging physics at Cambridge university, wrote “Sustainable point. That will change, however, because we are in the Energy—Without the Hot Air”, to which I referred. His east of England and will receive some of the charging take on hydrogen is that hydrogen vehicles make our points from the plugged-in places grant. Colleagues energy problem worse rather than better. I do not know from areas that I have not mentioned might want to ask whether he is right, but I would be interested to know the Minister what the plans are for those areas. the Government’s view. I know that one large UK Currently, London has 250 charging posts. Transport motor manufacturer, which I contacted before the debate, for London is aiming for 25,000 charging posts by was keen to obtain clarity on the Government’s view of 2015—a level of transformational change that might the future of hydrogen-powered vehicles. need to go further, but is a significant increase. Some I have driven a hydrogen-powered vehicle round the 90% of the 25,000 posts are intended to be in workplace Cranfield test centre in Bedfordshire. It drove extremely car parks and 250 will be fast-charge charging points, well, as did the Vauxhall Ampera, which I have also which are important for longer journeys, when someone driven and which will be on sale in the United Kingdom does not want to have to stop for eight or six hours to from next year. I hope that it will be made in Ellesmere recharge the battery fully. We need to get the mix of Port. I wish that it was being made in my constituency charging points right for the future, so that this technology at Luton in Bedfordshire, but it would be fantastic if it takes off. In Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough, was made in the United Kingdom. That, too, drives near the Sunderland car plant to which I referred, extremely well, and all the evidence is that when people 1,300 charging points are being installed. get into an electric vehicle and discover that it has a nice Smart-meter, low-cost charging can also greatly reduce feel and good acceleration, and is not sluggish, they are energy costs. If cars can be charged when there is much enthusiastic and keen to adopt the new technology. We 377WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 378WH

[Andrew Selous] the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) on securing this debate, and concur with much just have to get over some of the financial issues to of what he said. Clearly, he speaks with a lot of knowledge which I alluded at the start of the debate. of the issue. It is a pleasure to speak on the subject; it I should like to know the Government’s view on the makes a change from buses, trains and trams, which is use of biofuels for vehicles. There is concern about the the policy area on which I lead for the Opposition. My sustainability of biofuels and the fact that we may be hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John inappropriately using land for biofuels when it should Woodcock), who leads on the issue, is serving on the be used to produce food. What is the Government’s armed forces parliamentary scheme today, so I suppose view on that? Likewise, where does liquid petroleum gas that I have drawn the short straw in speaking for the fit into the Government’s view of the new technology Opposition in this debate. that we have been talking about? The hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire referred We must pause to consider the improvements that to the scheme in Israel, which, as a matter of interest, I can be made to internal combustion engines. We have had the opportunity to see. The ambition is impressive, 28.4 million cars on our roads, and Britain makes but like him, I am not sure that it could be exactly around 3 million car engines every year. They are becoming transposed to the United Kingdom. However, it is more efficient and lighter, and the technology is improving. certainly worth looking at, and the operation of the I noted from the Volkswagen website that the Blue scheme is interesting. Knowing what works well and Motion Polo—unfortunately, it is not made in this what does not may be of some benefit to the Department. country—emits 91 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre, This debate is incredibly timely, coming as it does compared with 89 grams per kilometre for the Toyota after two reports on the Government’s commitment to Prius, which I guess may occasionally ferry the Minister making change on the scale needed to tackle the threat around; the Prius comes in at just under, but it is very of climate change and the role that a shift from dependence close. An expertly engineered internal combustion engine on oil to low-carbon alternatives in motor vehicles produces only 2 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre could play in meeting that challenge. Climate change is more than a hybrid vehicle. We must differentiate between a threat that almost everyone now recognises we must different types of internal combustion engine, because treat seriously. new technology is advancing swiftly. It was a surprise to read in the media that three Mr Marcus Jones: My hon. Friend talks about research Departments, including the Department for Transport, and development, and innovative design of combustion have raised objections to the new carbon budget proposed engines. Many of my constituents work for Jaguar by the Committee on Climate Change. A leaked letter Land Rover, which is near my constituency. It is doing a from the Business Secretary stated that accepting the fantastic job in changing how it produces its engines carbon budget would endanger the competitiveness of and how its vehicles are constructed—to be lighter and British industry—that hardly says much for the Transport more fuel efficient. Does my hon. Friend agree that Secretary’s green credentials. As has been mentioned, policy across Government should be to encourage through rising fuel prices have led to a growing recognition of the taxation system not just the production of vehicles the need for change, not only among environmental that cost less to run, but their ownership? campaigners or the political elite, but across the country. We know how the volatility of oil supplies impacts on Andrew Selous: I thank my hon. Friend for his further the price at the petrol pump, causing misery for drivers intervention. I am glad that he mentioned Jaguar Land and contributing to the costs facing families who are Rover, which has not been mentioned so far in the already feeling a squeeze on their incomes. The decision debate. It is doing excellent work on producing an to increase VAT on petrol has added to the burden electric hybrid Range Rover, which is fantastic, and it is facing motorists, and the hon. Member for South West co-operating fully with the Government on some of the Bedfordshire mentioned those increasing costs in his bodies that I mentioned earlier. My vision is that all contribution. British-based manufacturers will be at the front and The goal of cheaper, greener motoring should unite centre of the new technology and will supply the demand everyone, as I believe it does. The public need the that will come down the track surprisingly and frighteningly possibility of cheap, reliable transport, and the Government fast in a few years’ time, when we reach the tipping need efficient and clean transport networks that rely on point at which it becomes more economic to drive such secure energy supplies. Businesses must look to remain vehicles rather than pay the exorbitant and cripplingly profitable and competitive at a time when the economy high prices that we have to put up with at petrol stations is under strain and environmental concerns are ever at the moment. more pressing. Transport—primarily road transport—is The United Kingdom has a history of inventing, but a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, and then not commercially exploiting, new technologies. I the hon. Gentleman spoke about the need to use clean do not want us to repeat mistakes of the past. If we can energy because as much as one fifth of all emissions seize the opportunities that I have outlined, we can come from road transport. protect our environment, provide jobs, increase our We can take two major steps to tackle the problem. energy security and give our constituents a low-cost First, we can make the alternatives to travelling by car motoring future. I believe that they would thank us for more attractive. The significant investment in our rail that. network over the past decade led to a rise of over 43% in rail use during that period. The possibility of faster 11.37 am journey times on new high-speed lines, and the improvement Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): It is a of existing routes through electrification and more advanced pleasure to see you in the chair, Mrs Riordan. I congratulate trains, will continue to help achieve that shift from road 379WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 380WH to rail. The risk, however, is that such progress could be The report concludes that it is set back by the Government’s decision to hike up rail “depressing to see just how rapidly things have gone backwards fares by 3% above the retail prices index of inflation for since May 2010.” the next three years, meaning that fares will rise by over Significant hurdles must be overcome to achieve the 30% on many vital commuter routes. In opposition, the mass roll-out of electric vehicles that is needed to make then shadow Transport Secretary, the right hon. Member a difference. We need the development of a recharging for Chipping Barnet (Mrs Villiers), warned that fare infrastructure that offers the assurance wanted by potential rises that were lower than those now proposed would buyers—namely that they will be able to recharge their “price people off the railways”—[Official Report, 17 July 2007; cars wherever they are in the country. That point was Vol. 463, c. 149.] made eloquently by the hon. Member for South West I fear that her prediction will now become a reality, Bedfordshire. We must also bring down the retail costs thanks to the decisions that she has taken since the of electric cars. Although we can argue that they are election. Similarly, the decision to cut local government cheaper to run and offer the potential for huge savings transport funds so much, so quickly, is having a devastating across the lifetime of the car, that is little use for impact on bus services, inevitably reversing the progress someone who simply cannot afford the up-front cost. that has been made in getting people out of their cars At the danger of breaking the consensus that has developed and on to public transport. during the debate, the zeal with which the hon. Gentleman Secondly, we can do more to promote alternatives to made his contribution put him in danger of sounding a travelling, and I welcome the Minister’s championing of bit like an over-enthusiastic car salesman—he certainly initiatives ranging from the use of new technologies had me sold on a number of vehicles that he described. I such as video conferencing to the promotion of working am not sure whether that is a better job than being a from home or remotely. Such initiatives, however, will Member of Parliament in the general hierarchy of things, amount to little unless there is proper financial support but his knowledge has certainly benefited the debate. from the Government to back up the Minister’s enthusiasm. We must work in partnership with industry to support In reality, the car is for many the only realistic way to the up-front research and development costs of new travel, particularly in rural areas. My constituency is in technologies—the hon. Gentleman and other hon. an urban area of Greater Manchester and is far from Members made a compelling case for investment in rural. Most of my constituents, however, do not travel skills. It is a high-tech sector and important to the by public transport; they travel by car, which for them is future of the manufacturing industry in this country, the only realistic mode of travel. and it will undoubtedly play a major part in rebalancing When in government, we recognised that a step change the British economy. I represent a constituency that is was needed if we were to move away from our dependence still heavily dependent—perhaps disproportionately so—on on oil and embrace and incentivise ultra low-carbon manufacturing industry, and the desire to see investment alternatives such as electric vehicles. Of the 20% of in those new technologies transcends political divides. emissions that originate from our roads, 16% comes I am proud of the steps that we took when in government from cars. If it were more affordable to use electric to address some of the barriers to the mass take-up of vehicles, that would have a significant impact on emissions. electric vehicles. The £2.3 billion of assistance provided Such initiatives must, of course, go hand in hand with a by the Labour Government to the automobile industry credible strategy to increase the amount of energy generated during the recession was tailored to help British industry from renewable sources—a point made by the hon. become a world leader in the manufacture of low-carbon Member for South West Bedfordshire—so that when vehicles, and aimed to promote research and development there is increased use of electricity as a result of the of that technology. It also helped companies such as roll-out of electric cars, that electricity is from green Jaguar Land Rover to access the European Investment sources. Bank’s clean transport facility. I am sure the Minister shares my concern about the Labour made a commitment to make electric vehicles report published in the past few days by Jonathon more easily available for consumers, and the then Transport Porritt, the former chairman of the Sustainable Secretary, Lord Adonis, worked on trial electric vehicles. Development Commission. His damning report marks An investment of £250 million was made to make the anniversary of the Prime Minister’s commitment to electric hybrid vehicles more affordable for consumers, lead the UK’s “greenest Government ever”, and states and funding was provided for the largest trial of electric that vehicles in the world. That scheme was launched in July “the likelihood of the Coalition Government living up to its 2009, and 340 vehicles took part. It is hugely disappointing “Greenest Government Ever” pledge is vanishingly remote.” that the Government do not recognise the importance The report finds that more than three quarters of the of supporting British manufacturing at a time when Government’s commitments have shown little or no investment is necessary to protect British jobs and progress, and judges 29 of those commitments to be ensure that we set the pace in the development of green “moribund”, with a further 29 seeing “limited progress.” technologies. The decision to prevent the green investment bank from borrowing funds until at least 2015, and the watering Mr Marcus Jones: The shadow Minister is making a down of feed-in tariff rates, are two examples of the case for the support given by the Labour Government Government’s backtracking on low-carbon initiatives. to the automotive industry. I am quite shocked by his In his report, Mr Porritt states: comments, because many of my constituents who work “The fact that David Cameron has no personal vision for the for Jaguar Land Rover were very concerned in 2009 at Green Economy provides all the permission that is required for the lack of support that the Labour Government gave piecemeal decisions across the rest of Whitehall working against Jaguar Land Rover in its time of need. A long, long any notion of becoming the Greenest Government Ever.” delay nearly saw many departments of Jaguar Land 381WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 382WH

[Mr Marcus Jones] funding will be made available to continue the subsidy beyond the current financial year? Given that the Rover close facilities in the UK. I am glad to say, and I comprehensive spending review was supposed to be a hope that the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge this, three-year settlement, why has he set this budget only that the regional growth fund has supported substantial for the current year? Are we providing enough support investment in Jaguar Land Rover, which will create to the automobile industry to research and develop new more than 6,000 jobs in the west midlands. low-carbon and ultra low-carbon vehicles? What more can be done to ensure that the UK is in a good position Andrew Gwynne: That is not quite how it happened. to become a market leader in this field? What the hon. Gentleman says about the regional growth Is the automobile industry putting sufficient investment fund is certainly welcome, if it is the case, for Jaguar into improving the efficiency of conventional petrol and Land Rover. However, I have to say that it is a pittance diesel vehicles? Does the Minister believe that biofuels compared with the funding that was available through should play as prominent a role as they have been given the regional development agencies. If that company is in the past in making conventional vehicles greener? benefiting from the regional growth fund, that is good What progress are we making towards setting a new news for it, but I know of many companies that were to EU-wide target of 100 grams of carbon emissions per receive funding through the regional development agencies kilometre from new cars? that are not so fortunate. Finally, I would like to ask the Minister about the Government’s carbon plan. Can he update the House Mr Jones: The shadow Minister mentions the regional on the commitment to development agencies. In the west midlands, private sector employment fell while the regional development “Consolidate existing support mechanisms for low and ultra-low agency, Advantage West Midlands, was in operation, emission vehicle research and development”, despite it having spent far more money than the regional which had a deadline of April 2011? Can he confirm growth fund, so I suggest to him that perhaps he should that the commitment to developing a look for outputs rather than inputs, and at what we can “nationwide strategy to promote the installation of electric vehicle achieve for our money. infrastructure, including a decision on whether to use an energy Regulated Asset Base and/or changes to planning/building regulations” Andrew Gwynne: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman will be delivered on time—by the end of June 2011? acknowledges that the budgets of the regional development What progress has been made on the commitment to agencies were substantially greater than that of the review the regional growth fund, notwithstanding the points that “strategy to support transition from early ultra-low emission he makes about employment growth. With regard to the vehicle market to mass market”, funding that was made available previously, it is hugely which the Government have said is under way? disappointing that the present Government do not recognise the importance of supporting manufacturing. It is crucial More environmentally friendly forms of transport, to ensure that we are setting the pace in the development including electric cars, could play a larger role in the of green technologies. coming years in this country. I certainly look forward to what the Government will say about meeting that challenge. I appreciate that the Minister has at least sought to take forward the work that Labour started when it was in office in developing an infrastructure for recharging. The Department for Transport claims that 9,000 electric 11.56 am vehicle charging points will have been built by 2013, yet The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport research by the BBC published last week found that (Norman Baker): I am grateful for the opportunity to only 704 are currently available. It is estimated that respond to the debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend 8,600 electric vehicles will have been sold by the end of the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew this year, which will require 4,700 charging points to be Selous) on the topic that he has chosen, on his enthusiasm completed before 2012. for it and on the large number of entirely pertinent It is a real worry that greater progress is not being questions that he asked during his contribution. I will made, and there are real doubts that the Government try to answer as many of those as possible, which means are treating the issue with the urgency needed to ensure that my response might be slightly more bitty than that even their own claims will be achieved. There are would otherwise be the case. also concerns about the progress being made in supporting It is worth pointing out to start with that the two the sale of new electric cars. The Minister has said in a objectives of the Department for Transport are to help parliamentary answer that just 534 cars were registered to create growth and to cut carbon. Of course, developing to receive the plug-in car grant in the first third of this and promoting electric vehicles fits in exactly with those year. The real concern, however, is that the funding for two objectives, showing that helping the environment that initiative is being ended by the Government next need not be—in fact, should not be—contrary to economic March. As the Minister will know, Labour committed development and the generation of growth for this £230 million to the scheme, yet that has been reduced to country. If we can move that agenda forward, it will just £43 million, turning the grants into a one-off scheme certainly be in all our interests to do so. That is why we when what is needed is long-term, sustained support for have taken action to position Britain as a global leader this emerging industry. in the design, production and use of electric and ultra I will therefore ask the Minister for some assurances. low-carbon emission cars. Cutting spending does not Can he reassure the industry and those for whom the have to be incompatible with a low-carbon agenda. cost of an electric car is simply out of reach that Some low-carbon choices already offer outstanding value 383WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 384WH for money, so our future goal is a market for green passengers were announced, not least because of the vehicles that makes economic as well as environmental price of fuel, which my hon. Friend the Member for sense. South West Bedfordshire mentioned. We have heard about alternatives to car transport. I am glad that the Opposition spokesman mentioned Let me deal with that issue briefly. Of course, a rounded high-speed lines in a positive sense, and I look forward transport strategy has to take into account alternative to the Opposition confirming that they have retained forms of transport. That is why we have prioritised the the last Administration’s position of supporting high-speed local sustainable transport fund to develop alternatives rail. It is important that there is cross-party agreement for shorter journeys; two thirds of car journeys are of on the issue, and I am disappointed that the hon. 5 miles or less. To answer the shadow Minister, the hon. Gentleman’s boss has so far been unable to say definitively Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), that high-speed rail would continue if there were a that shows the commitment of the present Government Labour Government. to dealing with the environment, because not only is it a Let me turn in more detail, however, to the subject big way of dealing with carbon emissions in the short before us: electric and low-carbon vehicles. Notwithstanding term, but £560 million for those areas is more over this the comments about railways and low-carbon transport four-year period than the last Government provided locally, the fact remains that most journeys are undertaken over the last four-year period, notwithstanding the difficult by car, and that will remain the case for the foreseeable economic circumstances in which we find ourselves. future. The reason is that cars are a convenient means of That is a real commitment from the Treasury to this getting from A to B and are the only practical alternative agenda. for a great many journeys. Yes, people can take a different means of transport if they are in a city centre, and they can use the railways if they are going from one [MR EDWARD LEIGH in the Chair] city centre to another, but the car is the only alternative for most journeys. We must therefore ensure that it is in The shadow Minister also mentioned rail. I was a good place to contribute sensibly to our environmental having some difficulty in following his logic, because he and economic objectives. As I said in opposition, and I said on one hand that people were being priced off the am happy to say again in government, the enemy is the railways, but on the other hand that a record number of carbon, not the car, and that is what we should focus on people were using the railways. Those two statements in our attempts to move forward on transport policy. do not seem to be entirely compatible. Also of course, the last Government changed the RPI arrangement so In the short term, the majority of CO2 savings from that every year, rail fares went up above inflation. To road transport will come from improvements to that extent, we are simply talking about a continuation conventional technologies, and that is broadly acknowledged of the policy inherited from the last Government. across the House and across industry. I have been impressed by car manufacturers’ ability to tweak—that is perhaps an understatement—or adjust their technology in a productive way to deliver reduced carbon emissions Andrew Gwynne: When the Minister looks at the from conventional engines, and one of the models record of the debate, he will see that the quote about mentioned competes favourably with a hybrid engine. pricing people off the railways came from his right hon. EU regulations on fuel efficiency have helped to drive Friend the Minister of State, Department for Transport, that process. Similarly, the manufacturing industry’s who is responsible for the railways. competitive will has helped to respond to the general environmental challenge that we all face. We will continue to work with manufacturers and our EU partners to Norman Baker: The point that I am trying to make is squeeze more fuel efficiency out of petrol and diesel that, if increasing rail fares above inflation prices people cars and vans because that will provide the biggest off the railways, which I think was the argument developed short-term gain. However, we are also preparing for the by the hon. Gentleman, the policy has been singularly more revolutionary change that is the subject of the ineffective so far. The policy pursued by the last Government debate. of pricing fares above inflation has led, according to his Of course, the take-up of ultra low-carbon cars may own figures, to record numbers of people on the railways. be slow at first, and nobody should be surprised by that. Whenever a new technology is introduced, there is always a slow take-up and then a rising line on the Andrew Gwynne: I realise that the debate is not about graph as people get used to the technology and gain railways, but perhaps the Minister will look at some of confidence in it. The price then starts declining because his right hon. Friend’s written parliamentary answers, the market is developed, and part of the Government’s which show that the Government’s own projections strategy is to help to ensure that the market is kick-started make it clear that price increases of 3% above RPI over and developed. There should be no concern about the the next three years will see the growth in rail passenger number of electric vehicles that have been sold to date, usage fall. because the trajectory is the one we would anticipate and is entirely consistent with our significant ambition for four years ahead, to which I will return shortly. Norman Baker: As the hon. Gentleman says, the We are putting in place the incentives we need to debate is not about railways, so we should not spend too establish a market for these pioneering technologies, much time on this, but the Department for Transport’s which will be supported by measures such as enhanced projections show increasing numbers of passengers capital allowances, low benefit-in-kind taxation and on the railways. Only this week, record numbers of rail variable vehicle excise duty. I am happy to say that we 385WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 386WH

[Norman Baker] confidence that this is not a stop-start arrangement, but something we will see through to make sure that there is are joined in our effort by a number of private and confidence in the market. public sector organisations. To respond to one of the points that has been made, the Royal Mail is undertaking Through these initiatives, we want to encourage motorists trials with electric vans. Sky is seeing what the plug-in to embrace cleaner and greener vehicles. By encouraging Toyota Prius is like to live with. In my Department, the demand, we will stimulate investment in mass production Government Car and Despatch Agency is testing five which will, in turn, bring down costs and further boost plug-in Toyotas and a Smith electric van, so we are demand. That is what we have seen with all new doing what we can. technologies, whatever the field, and things will be no different with electric vehicles. To support the development of the market for low-carbon vehicles further, we need to ensure that the right Let me turn now to some of the points raised by my infrastructure, specialist supplier base and customer hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire. incentives are in place, and that is exactly what we are He mentioned the carbon reduction from an electric car doing. We have confirmed our support for a range of powered by the existing grid, and he is right to draw research and development programmes across the green attention to the need to change the grid mixture. Indeed, vehicle sector. Through the Technology Strategy Board’s when we came into the Chamber at the end of the low-carbon vehicles innovation platform, we are working previous debate, my next-door neighbour, the Minister with key partners to deliver a strategic vision for automotive of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, R and D. Last year, we announced that a further my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles £24 million was being awarded to six winning consortia Hendry), was responding to a debate on that very from the latest competition, which makes a total of matter. The Government are well seized of the need to £52 million with contributions from business. develop a cleaner, greener grid, which will undoubtedly increase further the advantages of electric cars. Even if All of that will make a significant contribution to the existing grid is used with a new electric car, however, greener vehicle development in this country, to pick up there can be up to 40% carbon savings. There are also the point rightly made by my hon. Friend the Member further benefits in terms of reducing air pollution from for Nuneaton (Mr Jones). That development includes tailpipes and so on. We should change the grid, but even hybrid technologies, composite materials and engines if we do not, there are still many good reasons to pursue that recover waste heat energy. The vehicles that will electric vehicles, which is what we are doing. benefit include plug-in hybrids from Nissan, Lotus and My hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton referred Jaguar Land Rover, extended-range electric cars and a to the regional growth fund, and I can assure him that lightweight hybrid refuse collection vehicle. Through the Department for Transport is drawing the attention the plug-in car grant, we are helping to lower the of other Departments, including the Department for up-front costs of such vehicles. There are nine eligible Business, Innovation and Skills, to the advantages of cars, which are, and will be, on our roads, with more transport investment, including in this field. He will than 500 orders already placed under the scheme, as has know of the Transport Secretary’s enthusiasm for these been mentioned. issues, and he can rest assured that my right hon. Friend Our objective has always been real grants for real will not lose an opportunity to advance them in discussions cars: cars that are safe and reliable, that meet the needs with fellow Cabinet Ministers. of real motorists and that provide a motoring experience My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire that is as good as, if not better than, that provided by asked about the 2020 target, as it were, for electric the conventionally powered vehicles people currently vehicles. There is no doubt that we want a big uptake of drive. It is important that the new generation of cars these vehicles. The figure achieved will be determined have that consumer confidence and that their performance by external factors to some extent, for example the price is similar to, or better than, that of existing vehicles. If of oil. If the price rises dramatically, it will, I suggest, we are to have uptake, we absolutely must have that. hasten the development and uptake of electric vehicles, Fifteen or 20 years ago, I did some work on green but if the price declines, it will make it less attractive to washing powders, which, quite frankly, were not as move forward on that trajectory. Therefore, some outside effective as normal washing powders, so the uptake was factors mean that it might not sensible to set a target. limited. If green technology is to take off, we must get We should say, as we have said, that we must decarbonise its performance up to the level of that of existing road transport if we are to make serious inroads in our technology. carbon emissions in the transport sector. The scheme was launched in January, with buyers We should and we have done stuff on rail and encouraged receiving a grant of 25% of the price of a green car, up cycling and walking in urban centres, but ultimately the to £5,000. That, of course, also applies to business big gain will come from decarbonising road transport. buyers. The scheme has been well received by the public We must put in place high-level objectives for carbon and by business. We have shown our strong commitment reduction and economic growth and the mechanisms to to supporting the market by confirming support for the deliver the outcome we want, which, in this case, is a big grant for the lifetime of this Parliament. To pick up the uptake in electric vehicles. We must then monitor the point raised by the shadow Minister, it is right that the uptake without necessarily setting arbitrary targets for sum involved is £43 million until March 2012. The how many vehicles there should be by 2020. Having said spending review has confirmed the provision of about that, “The fourth carbon budget” report has made some £300 million to support consumer incentives for the recommendations and we appreciate the efforts made in life of this Parliament. The hon. Gentleman can have that regard. We have not formally responded to them, 387WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 388WH but we will publish our views in October, and we might conveniently. To pick up the point made by my hon. be able to give more detail on the number of electric Friend, they will have confidence that they will not be vehicles we could achieve when we publish that. left stranded somewhere without a power source. That My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire concern is also addressed by the development by referred to the incentives for purchasing electric vehicles, manufacturers, who are pushing at the boundaries, of and I am grateful that he welcomes the £5,000 grant. increasing range for electric vehicles. The economics are not quite as negative as he might This is a new market and these are new technologies. feel. On current petrol prices, an electric car such as a The projects will test a variety of business and operating Nissan Leaf could save the average motorist up to models and different technological approaches. The £1,000 a year in running costs, so, taking account of the knowledge that we gain will inform the developing plug-in car grant and the vehicle excise duty benefits, national strategy for infrastructure. Of course, we want even now someone could get a payback in seven years. I the UK to benefit from the business and competitive accept that that could be better and we want to make it opportunities of ultra-low-carbon cars. We want green better, but there is a sensible payback period for people growth and we want it here. We want UK businesses to to consider when they invest in such vehicles. seize commercial opportunities in the sector and are supporting them to do so. Andrew Selous: I thank my hon. Friend the Minister The move to ultra-low-emission vehicles presents for the serious way in which he is responding. What he opportunities to support the economic recovery, green has just said is, in some ways, the most important thing growth and the creation of high-tech, low-carbon jobs. that has been said in the whole debate, and I am grateful The automotive sector is already our No. 1 manufacturing to him. The fact that the payback could be within seven export, directly employing around 156,000 people in the years is very welcome news. He has told us about it here, UK and a further 150,000 in the supply chain. The but it is probably rather a well kept secret at the moment, sector is worth nearly £6.5 billion to the UK economy so we need to publicise it slightly more. I ask him to do in terms of gross value added, so as the automotive that. sector goes green, the UK is well positioned to reap the benefits. I can assure my hon. Friend the Member Norman Baker: They always say that if one wants to for Nuneaton that the Department for Transport, the keep a secret, tell the House of Commons. It is worth Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and pursuing that issue further and I am grateful for my the Treasury are working together and are closely focused hon. Friend’s suggestion. My officials are here and we on doing that. will see what we could usefully do to promote the The Nissan Leaf will be made in Sunderland from scheme further. early 2013, with production growing to 50,000 vehicles I mentioned the need to ensure that the performance per year. Nissan will assemble battery packs for the of electric vehicles is satisfactory, but if we are to make Leaf on the same site, starting in 2014 and growing to progress, we also need to ensure, as far as possible, that 60,000 units per year. Those are real, green jobs, and the economics are satisfactory. Once those two things they are helping to create growth and cut carbon—the are in place, people will embrace the new technology in two objectives of the Department for Transport. a welcome way. People want to be green, provided that I turn to the other questions that were raised. I dealt they can afford to be and that their vehicles do not lack with the length of the subsidy for electric vehicles. performance as a consequence. There is competition from Europe—there is no doubt Those who have contributed to today’s debates raised about that. France has aggressive plans for infrastructure the issue of the infrastructure. We are determined to roll and vehicle uptake, but the UK has been allocated the out an effective infrastructure for electric vehicles, hence largest number of Nissan Leafs in Europe, which the inclusion in the coalition agreement of a commitment demonstrates that we are seen as a leading market, and to mandate a national recharging network. Our plugged-in we are working to position the UK to take advantage of places programme is helping to do just that. The scheme the business opportunities that the market brings. will provide valuable data on how and where people To be frank, the standardisation of charging points is recharge their cars, so that we can get the national a difficult issue and not one for which there is an network right. To help achieve that, we are working on immediate solution. The International Electrotechnical a strategy for promoting the roll-out of charging Commission has developed international standards for infrastructure, and we will publish it this summer. More electric vehicle recharging and there are discussions in details will be available then. the EU to get progress on a standardised charging In December last year, as my hon. Friend the Member system. However, the national interest sometimes has a for South West Bedfordshire knows, we announced five role in the consideration of the best way forward, as my more plugged-in places: Northern Ireland, central Scotland, hon. Friend will understand. Greater Manchester, the midlands and the east of England will all receive match funding to install electric vehicle Andrew Selous: Does my hon. Friend the Minister recharging infrastructure. Those projects join the schemes agree that this is one area in which the EU could play a in London, Milton Keynes and the north-east of England, useful role? Many people think that getting some form which the previous Government began. of standardisation is exactly what the EU is for. The programme is real and happening now. Charging points are already appearing on our streets—the most Norman Baker: I entirely agree, and I hope that the visible sign of the growing market—and will soon, I EU comes up with a solution that does not reflect hope, become a common feature on streets and in national interest, but European interest, and makes homes, workplaces, and private and public car parks, so sense for manufacturers and consumers by keeping consumers can charge their cars easily, safely and costs down. That would be an entirely sensible outcome 389WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles10 MAY 2011 Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 390WH

[Norman Baker] Before I run out of time, I shall deal with the other points that were raised. Hydrogen was mentioned. I for many EU discussions. I assure my hon. Friend that return to the Government’s objectives, which are we are using our influence, as far as we have any, to twofold—to create growth and to cut carbon. I do not push for exactly that outcome. want to get into the business of picking winners in the technology that finally emerges. It may be that what Mr Marcus Jones: Promoting the standardisation of emerges is not an overarching technology; there may be such charging equipment across Europe is obviously different solutions for different vehicles, with the solution laudable, but if other EU member states are promoting for council refuse collection vehicles being entirely different their national interests while doing so, surely we should from that for the car that takes people to visit their also give some consideration to promoting our national aunts and uncles. interest and the interests of our manufacturers in those We should be careful not to impose Government negotiations. Does the Minister agree? solutions, or to guess which way technology is taking us. We should specify the outcome that we want—that Norman Baker: I agree that we do not want to leave of decarbonised road transport—and invite manufacturers, ourselves in a position where, to be blunt, we are those involved in research development and others to outflanked. We must try to achieve a consensual come up with a way of achieving that objective. It is not arrangement for a single recharging solution that everyone for us to second-guess things, although it is tempting. I can embrace. That is clearly the desired outcome, and it do not mean that as a criticism of the previous Government, will ultimately be to the benefit of all countries in the but they started promoting liquefied petroleum gas in European Union and more widely. Indeed, as we heard 2001-02. They had good intentions, but it turned out earlier, the best solution will be an international one, as that the environmental benefits were less than they it will keep manufacturing costs down and therefore the thought at first. To some extent, people were being led cost to the consumer down, too. We are seized of the up the hill and back down again, and we need to avoid need to make progress, but the House will appreciate such outcomes. that it is not entirely within our control. We have a similar situation with biofuels, which were The matter of apprentices was raised, especially the referred to today, and we must be careful to avoid the fact that we need a sufficient number with the skill to same problem. Biofuels were originally seen as the big work on electric vehicles. I am happy to reassure the solution, the silver bullet. Pressure groups were pressing House that the Department for Business, Innovation the Government to do more with biofuels, but then did and Skills, the Department of Energy and Climate an about-face, saying that biofuels were terrible and had Change and the Department for Environment, Food awful consequences. Biofuels, too, went up the hill and and Rural Affairs are working together to identify the down again. necessary skills and to consider how the demand-led Biofuels are within my brief, but it is taking time to further education system will deliver them. We are get the issue right. We believe that they have a role in talking to the sector skills councils and the Commission transport, but they must be sustainable. They must also for Employment and Skills about ensuring that the demonstrate carbon saving and show that they do not demand for green skills is shared with further education have unwanted consequences for the environment through colleges and other providers. We plan to maintain a indirect land use or in any other way. If we get the strong cross-Government focus on the STEM subjects foundations right, we can build on them, but we cannot of science, technology, engineering and maths. have the biofuels industry being built on sand or we shall run into environmental difficulties in the years Andrew Selous: The Minister is being generous in ahead. That is why we are taking more time. We are giving way, which I appreciate. What he said about consulting on the renewable energy and the fuel quality schools is critical. To be blunt, if people do not have a directives, and people have the opportunity to feed in GCSE in physics, they will probably not even make the comments. I hope that the Opposition will get involved starting gate. However, there is a chronic lack of physics in those consultations, to ensure that our policies on teachers. I know that this is stretching the Minister’s biofuels are right. departmental responsibilities, but it is important that I turn to the comments of the hon. Member for we join these things up. Nothing will happen unless Denton and Reddish. He spoke about fuel duty and schools have the basic physics that will lead people on. VAT on fuel. It might have been fairer if he had referred to the fact that the Chancellor cut fuel duty by 1p in the Norman Baker: As suggested, the number of physics Budget; he might also have referred to the fact that the teachers may be slightly beyond my brief at the Department Chancellor abandoned the above-inflation increases that for Transport. However, I have some sympathy for the the previous Government intended to introduce. There point being made by my hon. Friend. The mindset in is an argument to be had about where the price of fuel some areas and among some people is that manufacturing should be, given its impact on the environment and the is an old-fashioned dirty business, and that people who economy, and it is perfectly legitimate to engage in that want to progress in life should get white-collar jobs. argument, but we should have the facts before making That is unfortunate, and the Government are trying to the necessary judgments. change that mindset. Manufacturing is most important The hon. Gentleman spoke about our being the greenest to the country, and it is a skilled task. Anything that Government ever, but the time to judge that will be at schools can do to help promote it is entirely to be the end of this Parliament; only then will we be able to welcomed. My officials and I will ensure that my hon. see whether the policies that started off down the track Friend’s comments are drawn to the attention of the have been enacted and where they ended. I, for one, am relevant Minister at the Department for Education. determined that the aspiration should be turned into 391WH Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles 10 MAY 2011 392WH reality. I want us to be the greenest Government ever, UK and Sierra Leone and I have no reason to think that other Ministers take a different view. I believe that the Prime Minister, too, is committed to that objective. The time to judge us will be 12.28 pm at the end of this Parliament, and I hope that we will have an overwhelming case to demonstrate that we have Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) achieved that challenging objective. (LD): I am grateful to Mr Speaker for granting me the As for the green investment bank, it did not exist opportunity to debate relations between the United under the previous Government. Whether or not it is Kingdom and Sierra Leone. I have been a Member of allowed to borrow is a moot point. We created the bank Parliament for more than a quarter of a century, and I and we have given it borrowing powers, which is a have become a great fan of Sierra Leone over that time. substantial departure from normal Treasury policy. It I became a fan because many of my constituents and does not start until 2015, but it is a major achievement, others who live in the London borough of Southwark and I hope that the hon. Member for Denton and come from Sierra Leone. I have come to know them well Reddish will acknowledge that; rather than painting and work with them; I have seen them become involved everything as a glass half empty, he should recognise in the local community, stand for public office and that the glass is half full—and getting fuller as time goes elected as local councillors; and I have seen one, Councillor on. Columba Blango, become mayor of Southwark. I am a great fan of Sierra Leone, because I have had Andrew Selous: I return, if I may, to what I believe is the opportunity to visit it on more than one occasion, the most significant factor—the seven-year payback. most recently the year before last. I place on record my Would the Minister be prepared to write to me, perhaps thanks to Ian Hughes, our high commissioner, who giving the matter further publicity, setting out the illustrative hosted that visit, and to Magah Tang, who works with figures? I accept that they are illustrative and that they me on Home Office, immigration and other matters. We make assumptions about the price of fuel and so on, were given a good opportunity to catch up on matters in but that seven-year payback is critical. Would he be general and to meet much of the community, but we kind enough to set them out in a letter? I hope that he went specifically to look at the challenges of deforestation might also give the matter wider publicity, which could that face the area around Freetown and of the climate be critical in moving this vital industry forward. change agenda. I have become a great fan of Sierra Leone because I Norman Baker: I am happy to give that assurance. I have seen how the country has bounced back from one shall write to all Members present as a matter of courtesy. of the most terrible civil wars that Africa has seen in The Government will do whatever we can to promote recent times. It was a civil war in which the most terrible electric cars and the uptake of low-carbon vehicles. We atrocities were committed. Many people were killed and are committed to that agenda. That is why I am grateful many lost their families and their homes. Even those to my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire who survived were often left so badly injured that they for introducing this important debate. were unable to be economically self-sufficient. Many were placed in homes in Freetown because they had had both their arms or legs chopped off. The most terrible things happened in that most terrible of civil wars. With the help of the United Kingdom, the country has come through. There is huge respect in Sierra Leone for the UK Government because of their willingness to support a great Commonwealth friend. I have joined with many Sierra Leoneans in the past few days to celebrate the 50th anniversary of their independence from the United Kingdom. They were celebrating not because they had wanted to shake off their links with the United Kingdom, but because of their growing self-confidence. There was a great service in the Walworth Methodist church in Southwark, a celebration party in Camberwell and many other events. There was a diplomatic reception hosted by his excellency the high commissioner for Sierra Leone on 27 April. It is a pleasure to welcome the Minister to this debate. I have just learned from him that he had the privilege of representing Her Majesty and the Government at the anniversary celebrations in Sierra Leone. He will no doubt regale us with an account of the optimism that he found in that lovely west African coastal country, which was once a member of the empire and is now a proud member of the Commonwealth. Let me also pay tribute to the high commissioner of Sierra Leone in the UK. He is fully engaged with his community, and is a hugely popular and respected figure, as he was when he was in public life and politics in Sierra Leone. 393WH UK and Sierra Leone10 MAY 2011 UK and Sierra Leone 394WH

[Simon Hughes] conducted very carefully. It is keen to avoid the problems that Nigeria went through—huge exploitation, corruption There is no intention in this debate to catch out the and environmental disadvantage. Minister or give him a hard time. I just want to set out One encouraging sign is that refugees in surrounding some of the facts about Sierra Leone as it is today, and countries are slowly returning. The increase in the then share with the Chamber the issues on the agenda population is not just due to the birth rate rising; people for the future. Our link with the country comes through feel that it is now safe to come home. The increase puts not just history, respect and diplomatic interchange, but huge pressure on the urban areas such as Freetown. the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department Although it is mainly a rural community, some 30% of for International Development. I will come back to the the people of Sierra Leone live in urban areas. The way in which we help on a day-to-day basis. challenge is to find enough work for people, which is Sierra Leone is a beautiful and peace-loving place where the United Kingdom can be of help. One area in with many natural characteristics and resources. It has which we have started to do significant amounts of a beautiful coastline that provides harbouring for ships work is in building up the public services. I think that I from across west Africa, and the potential for oil am correct in saying that in the last full financial year, exploration. None the less, it is one of the poorest DFID spent just short of £45 million on Sierra Leone. countries in the world, and we need to remind ourselves The largest single item on that budget was money for of that, because with poverty comes great challenges. better governance, to ensure that corruption was reduced Sierra Leone has a population of about 6 million people, and did not return and to support the presidential and more than 20 ethnic groups. In the civil war from elections next year. The next largest area of support was 1991 to 2002, there were tens of thousands of deaths health, and there were other financial commitments to and the displacement of more than 2 million people—about social services and education. a third of the population. It is not surprising, therefore, The reason those financial commitments are so important that the Governments under President Kabbah of the is to be found if we look at the specific indicators of Sierra Leone People’s party and under President Ernest health and deprivation in Sierra Leone. For example, Bai Koroma of the All People’s Congress party since there are key indicators on health in the country in a 2007 have been seeking not only to strengthen democracy report by the United Nations Development Programme. but to ensure that the economy can grow so that it The report shows that 46% of the total population is meets the needs of its people. undernourished; expenditure on public health in Sierra Leone as a percentage of GDP is only 1.4%, and the When I was talking to the high commissioner at one under-five mortality rate for every 1,000 live births is of the recent celebrations, he said that the most visible 194, so nearly 200 out of every 1,000 children who are sign of economic progress is the improvement in live births—or nearly 20%—do not survive to the age of infrastructure. That will be welcome not just to Sierra five. There are also education indicators in that report. Leoneans but to many visitors. On my first visit, I had The percentage of those of both sexes aged 15 and to go by road from Freetown to Bo and, as I told the above who are literate is just over 40%; the expenditure high commissioner, it was the least comfortable road on education is under 4% of GDP. The mean years of journey of my life because there were more potholes schooling for those who are currently adults has been than road. I am talking about not little undulations in just under three years, and the expected years of schooling the road but serious holes. Sorting out the road surface, for children is currently just over seven years. In addition, the road structure around the country from the capital 81% of the population is in poverty and nearly two to the provinces and the internal air flights is fundamentally thirds of the population live on less than $1.25 a day. important if people are to be able to travel for work or Those figures show the economic and social situation in for social activity, to sell their wares or to exploit Sierra Leone. natural resources. It is not surprising, therefore, that until recently Sierra The list of Sierra Leone’s natural resources is not Leone was at the bottom of the league in the UN small or insignificant. It includes diamonds, titanium development index. Although there has been some slight ore, bauxite, iron ore, gold and chromite. Unlike Zambia, improvement in that respect since 2000, the graphs most people in Sierra Leone do not work in mines. They comparing Sierra Leone with sub-Saharan Africa and work on the farms, scratching a living from agriculture, the rest of the world show that Sierra Leone stayed at which brings me to the other important background the bottom of the league. It is a great tribute to the fact. Like every other country, Sierra Leone has been Government and the people of Sierra Leone, and to our challenged by climate change. A huge percentage of the relations with that country, that in the last year—when population is under the age of 16. People have responded the last UN development index was produced—there to the rapid growth in population by over-harvesting has been a significant and noticeable improvement in timber and taking away some of the forests, by expanding Sierra Leone’s place in the league table. It had been cattle-grazing, and with some slash-and-burn agriculture. 169th in the world, but it has moved up. It may not be That has been no good for the forests or the soil. halfway up that table, but it has moved up to 158th. For Furthermore, the civil war has depleted many of the Sierra Leone, that improvement is really important, and country’s natural resources, and there has been significant the country’s high commissioner leads me to believe over-fishing. that the next publication of the UN development index may well show that Sierra Leone has made further The challenge is to ensure that the good order of progress. nature is restored in Sierra Leone and that there is I want to flag up what seem to me, from my visits to careful husbanding of natural resources. The country Sierra Leone and my conversations with Sierra Leoneans, is concerned to ensure that any exploration for oil is to be five specific issues on which I hope that the 395WH UK and Sierra Leone10 MAY 2011 UK and Sierra Leone 396WH

Minister can give me positive encouragement, in addition country to Sierra Leone can only benefit future generations to the general encouragement that I know he is capable in the two countries, promoting mutual understanding of giving, and that is hugely well received in Sierra between the UK and Sierra Leone and economic progress Leone. in Sierra Leone. First, we must continue to support the development Fifthly and lastly, it is of course vital that we continue of a decent public health service in Sierra Leone. On my to help improve the governance of Sierra Leone and last visit to the country, 18 months ago, I went to the continue to support the country’s Government, both in maternity hospital in Freetown and I was told that there the country’s Parliament—by giving the Parliament and are two gynaecological consultants for the whole country. the country’s MPs the support that they need—and in There is a desperate shortage of specialist doctors and regional and local government. The other day, a significant specialist nurses. The challenge for the health service in anti-corruption agreement was signed. Corruption has Sierra Leone is not only to train Sierra Leoneans to been the bane of much of African politics. However, become specialist doctors and specialist nurses but to Sierra Leone has been determined to try to tackle the ensure that they are not then lost to Sierra Leone as a issues of corruption. It has dealt with many of them result of their coming to this or another country and well, but many challenges still remain. I hope that we not going back. There is absolutely no problem with us can give the people of Sierra Leone all the support and helping in the training of Sierra Leoneans to become encouragement that we can to ensure that the rule of doctors, dentists, nurses, radiographers and consultants, law is understood and followed, and so that people who but it is really important that people with those specialist think they can exploit Sierra Leone do not get away skills do not become part of the diaspora, helping in with it and instead are brought to justice and pay the countries such as the UK, but instead remain in Sierra price for their actions. Leone. One of the big challenges is to ensure that those I hope that this debate sends a clear signal to Sierra people are in place in Sierra Leone, not only in Freetown Leone about how much we value it. I think that the last but in the other towns and cities. debate that we had in this House on Sierra Leone was Secondly, we must continue the work in public health the one that took place at the time of the civil war, when that has begun. In Sierra Leone, there is still a high risk things were very dark and grim indeed. The picture of people dying or becoming seriously incapacitated there is wholly different now. We encourage the people because of disease. The vaccination and public health of Sierra Leone to ask when they need our support and programmes—and, partly, the education programmes—as to tell us when they do not need it, so that they can be well as the actual delivery of vaccination and the like, independent. We also want to say to them how much we are all hugely important. For example, pneumonia, value the progress that they have made and the recovery malaria and other diseases can either kill people or that they have embarked on. They need to maintain reduce their capacity for survival and economic activity. economic growth, but above all, they need to keep the That public health activity, in the rural areas as much as civil and civic peace that is such a wonderful development in the urban areas, must remain a priority in our practical after the civil war in their country. Sierra Leone is a links with Sierra Leone. country of many faiths; it is predominantly Muslim, Thirdly, we must continue the good military and but there are many Christians and people of other defence links that we have had with Sierra Leone. It is faiths, and all of them live in harmony with each other. very important that the UK continues to enjoy the huge We salute Sierra Leone on the 50th anniversary of its benefit to our reputation in Sierra Leone that results independence, and we thank it for its contribution to from our support for the country during the civil war Africa, the Commonwealth, this country and the world. and our help in bringing that civil war to an end. Of I hope that the Minister can say, on behalf of the course it should not spend excessive amounts of money Government, how much support we will continue to on military and defence—that would be absolutely the give to Sierra Leone and how much we value the precious wrong thing to do—but if Sierra Leone is to remain links that have been established over the years between proud and free, its military and law-and-order agencies, our two countries. including the police, need the capacity to protect its independence and its national assets, such as its diamonds, 12.48 pm from future incursions like the incursion that happened in the past from over the border with Liberia. In that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign respect, the continuing collaboration with and training and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): I of the military and, where appropriate, the police in congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Sierra Leone are very important. Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) on Fourthly, we must continue the really good raising the issue of the relations between Britain and educational links between Britain and Sierra Leone. Sierra Leone, which is of great importance to his The Commonwealth has provided a wonderful opportunity constituents. I understand that his constituency has one for continuing links with further and higher education of the largest diaspora communities from Sierra Leone. in Sierra Leone. Along with colleagues from both the He has worked tirelessly on behalf of that community. other main parties in the UK, I have sought to ensure He said that he is a great fan of the country. The feeling that Commonwealth scholarships are retained, and that is mutual in Sierra Leone, where he is hugely respected. we maximise the opportunities for people in Sierra This debate is timely for two reasons. The first is that Leone to study abroad, whether they are undergraduates Sierra Leone has recently celebrated 50 years of or studying for a postgraduate degree, such as a master’s independence from the UK. The second is that I myself degree. It is important that we continue those educational have just returned from a four-day visit to the country links, because the exposure of young people from Sierra to take part in those celebrations as the official representative Leone to this country and of young people from this of Her Majesty’s Government. I welcome this chance to 397WH UK and Sierra Leone10 MAY 2011 UK and Sierra Leone 398WH

[Mr Henry Bellingham] As well as the 50th anniversary celebrations, my visit focused on prosperity, security, the UN and regional discuss matters that are of interest to many Members. issues. I had an excellent meeting with the President, Although recent events in the middle east and north who thanked the UK for our consistent support since Africa, as well as in nearby Côte d’Ivoire, continue to the end of the civil war 10 years ago. His country is a demand the attention of my ministerial colleagues, it is radically different place now, but he entirely appreciates important that we do not lose sight of developments that there is still more to do to heal the wounds of war, elsewhere in the world, including developments elsewhere and we agreed that getting the economy right was a in the region. crucial part of that. Sierra Leone is on the cusp of a better and brighter The UK can be proud of its contribution to helping future. Fifty years after attaining independence, 10 years Sierra Leone’s economy to grow. Since the end of the after the end of a bitter and bloody civil war, nearly four war, we have supported the economy through the judicious years after the present Administration came into office use of budget support, which has helped to assure and just over a year before a historic fourth post-war macro-economic stability. As a result, Sierra Leone has election, it is set to complete a difficult transition and to seen an average annual growth of 6.4% since 2003, step forward into a brighter and better future for all which is a big achievement by any standard. To ensure Sierra Leoneans. that that continues, we are using UK aid to support the Sierra Leone is a rare success story in west Africa. development of the energy sector and to improve access The 10 years since the end of the civil war have seen to micro-finance and finance for new businesses, and, slow but steady progress, including a functioning democracy through our prosperity agenda, we are encouraging at the service of its people, who have seen a rare further investment. The successful London trade and peaceful handover of power from one party to another investment conference in 2009 saw a fourfold increase in in a democratic election. There has been refurbishment new foreign investment inquiries, which is incredibly and extension of the national infrastructure, which is so encouraging. We will continue to work closely with the essential to the economy and to a functioning society Sierra Leone Government and business to help the and, as my right hon. Friend pointed out, the roads economy grow, generate wealth, create jobs and increase have improved immeasurably and are vital in ensuring Government revenues, to enable the country to stand that the rural economy can move forward. Progress has on its own feet. also included macro-economic stability at a difficult One initiative that has great potential is the Salone time in the global cycle and steady economic growth, business network, which was formed to support Sierra with the prospect of a step change upwards when Leone’s efforts to raise its international profile and mineral exploitation plays its proper part in the development attract blue-chip companies. Sierra Leone’s resource of the economy and the country. wealth and natural beauty have the potential to transform The UK and the international community continue the country, with its fertile soils that can become the to support that progress, and we welcome Sierra Leoneans’ basis for a successful and lucrative contribution to efforts to shoulder a greater burden themselves. We solving the food shortages that are pushing up prices encourage them, their Government and their institutions around the world. to grasp confidently the reins of their own future. We Minerals—iron ore, diamonds, gold, rutile, and also recognise that despite the remarkable progress in potentially oil—could truly transform the economy of the past decade, Sierra Leone faces huge challenges. the country and the lives of its people. However, as my However, as my right hon. Friend highlighted, although right hon. Friend pointed out, success cannot be assured, there is still a long way to go—there obviously is—progress and careful thought and difficult decision making will is in the right direction in the league tables. That is why be needed. Experience elsewhere demonstrates that colleagues in this House, and indeed elsewhere, applaud economic development can have both positive and negative the progress but also recognise the very significant consequences—we have all seen and studied the resource challenges. It is also why my right hon. Friend the curse of Africa. Secretary of State for International Development and To ensure that Sierra Leone reaps the benefits of his Ministers prioritised Sierra Leone in the recent agriculture, tourism and natural wealth, it is crucial to bilateral aid review, which will ensure that the country bear in mind the following: transparency, on the part of continues to receive much-needed UK aid. both companies and Governments to maintain credibility As a friend of Africa and of Sierra Leone, I follow and ensure efficient bureaucratic process; equity, providing events in the country and the region very closely. As I a fair return for the Government, the people and the have already mentioned, I was very pleased to be able to companies investing their cash and knowledge; and attend the recent independence day celebrations as the competition, with companies exerting themselves to the official representative of Her Majesty’s Government, utmost to ensure they are the most profitable and and I found Sierra Leone to be a firm friend of the UK. flexible, and pay the best wages, to attract the best The celebrations were truly authentic, and although workers. Similarly, to attract the best businesses and to they were held in a hot, humid stadium and other ensure that Sierra Leone sees the full benefits of commercial venues, the spirit of national celebration and the optimism development, the necessary institutions and processes for a bright future were there for all to see. The President must be in place. The UK is working with Sierra Leone made an excellent speech, calling on all Sierra Leoneans to make that a reality. to put their past behind them, without blame, and to My right hon. Friend made four additional key points. commit to learning the lessons of that past and to He mentioned health, and in particular maternal health. dedicating those lessons to working together to make a When I was in the country, I visited the excellent better country for their children and grandchildren. Princess Christian maternity hospital in Susan’s Bay. The President’s rhetoric was truly inspiring and uplifting. That was one of the high points of my visit because I 399WH UK and Sierra Leone 10 MAY 2011 400WH had the chance to see for myself the work that the Employment and Support Allowance Department for International Development has done in putting in expertise on the ground. I do not know the exact numbers of specialist doctors, 12.59 pm nurses and gynaecologists, but I will get back to my Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): It right hon. Friend on that. What I can tell him is that the is a pleasure to have secured this debate and to speak hospital is functioning really well and is saving lives by under your chairmanship, Mr Leigh. This is an important enabling a large number of Sierra Leonean women to matter for many of my constituents. Employment and have their children in a maternity hospital. That is support allowance was introduced by the last Government encouraging and uplifting. I completely agree with my to replace incapacity benefit. As we are all aware, it is right hon. Friend about the crucial importance of extending designed to support people who are too sick or disabled the health service and medical treatment out into the to work full-time or at all, or who need significant rural areas, and DFID is certainly on the case. I also retraining, and who meet certain conditions. The benefit agree entirely about the crucial importance of building is funded by the Department for Work and Pensions. up capacity and progress in those areas. Significant There are two types of ESA. Claimants may be able progress has been made, but more can be done. to get either or both, depending on their circumstances. On military training, one of the abiding observations The two types are contributory ESA, which is available that I came away with was the huge gratitude on the to those who have paid enough in national insurance part of the Government and the people of Sierra Leone contributions, and income-related ESA, which is available for the UK’s intervention at the end of the civil war. It to those whose income and capital are low enough. was a very well timed intervention, which enabled the ESA claimants must be over 16 and under state pension progress through to democracy, and the rebel forces to age, unable to work due to sickness or disability and not be beaten. Since then, we have had the British training entitled to statutory sick pay. Most importantly for this team in place, which has been transformed into the debate, they must satisfy certain tests. Between October international military advisory and training team. The 2010 and March 2014, all current incapacity benefit team is still led by Britain, and the vast majority of its claimants will be reassessed under the new work capability officers and non-commissioned officers are from Britain. assessment, rather than under the personal capability It is running a staff college there, which is a centre of assessment used under the old regime. Work capability excellence. I am keen to see the IMATT continue and assessments are causing much concern among many of develop original scope, training not just the military my most vulnerable constituents. from countries in the region, but the police, building I think that all parties agree that our benefits system capacity and professionalism in the key security and should screen out those who try to access disability police sectors. benefits despite being entirely fit to work. However, This debate has provided an ideal opportunity for me disability benefits should not be used, as incapacity to praise the work of the Sierra Leonean diaspora in the benefit was by the Tory Government in the 1980s, to UK, many of whom live in my right hon. Friend’s manage unemployment numbers artificially. The work constituency. Diaspora communities play a vital role in capability assessment has been in use for some time, and encouraging socio-economic recovery in their mother I am confident that I am not the only Member of the countries. Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials House being approached regularly by constituents who have had several meetings with the Sierra Leone Diaspora are angered by how it works, or whose disability benefits Network in recent years, and the excellent British high have been withdrawn after an assessment. Work capability commissioner in Freetown, Mr Ian Hughes, joined my assessments have been contracted out to a private right hon. Friend in addressing a group of his Sierra organisation, Atos Healthcare, in a £300 million deal by Leonean constituents last year. It is important that we the Government. Atos Healthcare is part of the Atos maintain those strong links with the diaspora community. Origin group of companies, most noted for its IT Incidentally, I want to pay tribute to the hard work of outsourcing operations. It has Government contracts in Mr Ian Hughes and all his in-country team, who do an the Home Office and elsewhere. absolutely first-class job in supporting Sierra Leone as The assessments carried out by Atos Healthcare no it continues its recovery and development. longer take into account GPs’assessments of an individual’s I have seen first hand the excellent results that the impairment or long-term condition, ignoring them in DFID team has achieved on the ground. Sierra Leone favour of a set of questions, which take an average of used to be one of the most dangerous countries in the 15 to 45 minutes to answer, administered through software world for women to give birth in but, through judicious developed by Atos. The software requires assessors to intervention and a really imaginative aid programme, ask a set of questions on which the applicant can score that has changed. Sierra Leone has come a long way up to 15 points, putting him or her into the ESA since the civil war, and with the recent instability in support group. GPs, who in many cases might have Côte d’Ivoire, it should be seen as an example of how a known applicants all their lives, and who in any case west African nation can move forward, heal divisions have a good understanding of applicants’ medical, social and rebuild itself. Sierra Leone is an extraordinary and emotional status, are ignored by the new system. place, and I have a vision that in the future it will be a Instead, a new set of individuals called health care confident, independent and self-sufficient country, of professionals come into play. They are trained by Atos which its people can be incredibly proud. We look for an average of four to 16 weeks in understanding forward to working with them over the next 50 years. targets—that is most worrying—and the all-powerful LiMA, or logic integrated medical assessment, software. They are given time limits for each assessment and told that the more people they can see in a given period, the 401WH Employment and Support Allowance10 MAY 2011 Employment and Support Allowance 402WH

[Angela Smith] Furthermore, the assessments do not consider the context of the claims or the claimants. A representative better it is for the targets. Health care professionals survey by Ipsos MORI compiled from a face-to-face consist of physiotherapists, nurses and doctors. I am survey commissioned by DWP found that nearly a third not saying that those professionals do not know what of those going through the ESA process were described they are doing. However, they are bound by the software as having literacy problems. A further 6% had problems that they are operating. speaking English, 11% had numeracy problems and Work capability assessments mean that under the 22% were described as being in one or more disadvantaged new system, blind claimants who can get around safely groups, including those with mental health issues, with a guide dog can be forced on to jobseeker’s allowance, ex-offenders, and those with perceived learning difficulties. as can deaf claimants who demonstrate that they can An overwhelming 69% of those going through the read and write. Claimants who cannot walk but who WCA had multiple health conditions. That is greatly can use a manual wheelchair will no longer score points. similar to other assessments, such as for special educational In addition, references to hands have been removed needs, which are often made more difficult by multiple from the picking-up activity, specifically to make it health conditions. I acknowledge that that makes it harder for amputees to score points. hard for assessments to be as accurate as they should be. It underlines the case for changing the procedure, which Some activities have simply been cut altogether. For is too simplistic and inaccurate. example, the activity “bending and kneeling”, which I would have thought critical to determining whether an Those in the support group and in the fit-for-work individual is fit for any kind of work, has been completely group had the same number of health conditions, namely abolished for health and safety reasons, as people apparently 31. In all groups, 81% of people were receiving medical should not bend forward when lifting. Perhaps most treatment for their condition, with 38% waiting for worryingly, half of all the scoring descriptors for mental hospital or additional treatment. Those statistics do not health and learning difficulties have been removed from suggest to me that we are dealing with a set of fraudsters the procedure, making it much harder for people with pretending to be sick or disabled, or a set of individuals depression, anxiety and many other forms of mental who have been languishing on incapacity benefits for illness to get ESA. years. In fact, 71% of applicants for ESA were new A constituent recently visited my surgery who was claimants making their first claim. assessed and passed as completely fit for work of any Evidence is mounting that the entire process is likely kind, despite the fact that she could not walk without to cost the taxpayer more than the original benefits bill crutches and could not stand or sit for long periods that it is designed to cut. The cost of Atos contracts, because the discs in her back had completely disintegrated. tribunals and additional health care caused by the misery Because she could both stand and sit, she was classed as and failure of the work capability assessment adds up fit for work. Another constituent visited my surgery to to higher long-term costs, yet it is all being done under tell me that the examiner told him that he had no the guise of state efficiency. Despite the overwhelming problems moving, despite the fact that he suffered from evidence that WCAs are not working as they should, rheumatoid arthritis. Good days and bad days are a Atos was awarded a further contract by the Department feature of rheumatoid arthritis. On bad days, movement for Work and Pensions in 2010. can be much more severely restricted. It is difficult to I do not want to be tribal about this. I am perfectly understand how such a bland, all-encompassing assessment aware that it was the Labour Government who introduced can be made of an individual’s health needs. My the new system. I am not interested in blame, but in constituent’s condition highlights a great concern about seeing what is wrong put right. I am not saying that the tests, which is that they assess claimants only on a people should just be left to rot on ESA. I know all too particular day and not over a period of time. That is well, from my own family history, what incapacity benefit important, because claimants with rheumatoid arthritis, did to people’s mental health when they were thrown on multiple sclerosis and Parkinson’s disease all fall into a to it after losing employment in the 1980s. Nor am I similar category. saying that it is not right for the state to make sure that In 2010, an independent review of the tests by Professor only those eligible for the benefit should get it. There is Harrington concluded: no doubt—the evidence is indisputable—that people “There is strong evidence that the system can be impersonal who are on ESA, or who were on incapacity benefit and mechanistic, that the process lacks transparency and that a before that, for a period of time are more than likely to lack of communication between the various parties involved spend the rest of their days on it, and that is wrong. It contributes to poor decision making and a high rate of always has been and always will be wrong. What I am appeals…evidence has consistently and regularly highlighted problems with each stage of the WCA process, which limit both the saying is that the system that has been put in place is not assessment’s fairness and effectiveness.” only unfair in how it assesses disability, but too rigid Atos’s own staff have said that the assessments are and inflexible. It does not take into account the needs of too harsh. Prospect, the trade union representing 135 Atos individuals, and it is more about saving the Treasury doctors, has stated that the target of seeing 10 or more money, ironically, than helping the individual. people a day is unrealistic and will lead to inaccurate Another constituent came to see me recently, because assessments, especially in complex cases. It should come he had also been refused ESA. He was a manual worker—a as no surprise, then, that ESA appeals have increased by printer—and that was all he knew, in terms of work. He 56%. Figures rose from 25,700 in the second quarter of had been in printing all his life. He had emphysema and 2009-10 to 52,000 in the same quarter of 2010-11. had suffered a heart attack, which, as I think most of us Almost half of cases were overturned on appeal. Such a would agree, would make it very difficult for him to do degree of failure is staggering and makes a powerful manual work again. Anyone who knows anything about case for change. emphysema will say that it is a disease that kills and that 403WH Employment and Support Allowance10 MAY 2011 Employment and Support Allowance 404WH tends to kill slowly, disabling the individual suffering tribute to her for referring to the fact that it was the from it in the process. Those of us who live in the old previous Government who introduced this system. She coalfield areas and in steel communities know all too has set out in detail the context for the changes that we well what the disease can do. It is terrible. I know, are putting in place. I agree with her that the system that because I have seen members of my family suffer from we inherited was not adequate. It did not do the job it. It is a shocking, awful disease. properly and in many cases led to wrong decisions My constituent needed help to train to do something about individuals. I and my colleagues in the Department else. He may only ever be able to work part time, and for Work and Pensions have spent the past year trying certainly not in the job that he had been used to all his to sort all that out, so that we were ready for the start of life. It also has to be said that my constituent desperately the migration process. I shall explain to the hon. Lady wants to go back to work. However, because of the way in some detail how that was done. in which the current system is set up, he was refused I shall begin by picking up on some of the points ESA and forced to go on to the jobseeker’s allowance, made about Atos, the contractors. The hon. Lady and he is now being chased to take any job that comes mentioned that Atos was contracted, but, as she knows, along, regardless of the potential long-term impact on it was contracted originally by the previous Government. his health condition, emphysema. There is no support We have not sought to change the contracting arrangements for retraining, which is what ESA should offer, and no because, frankly, it would be massively disruptive to do recognition of the fact that he, a manual worker, is no so in the middle of the process. What we have sought to longer fit to engage in that type of work. That is not do is address the issues surrounding Atos that have led acceptable. We need a much more flexible view of how to concerns being raised. Let me be clear—Atos has no we help people who often have multiple health conditions financial targets. A myth has been circulating for some and who need help, not punishment. Significant investment time that our contractors are incentivised to find people would be required, but in the long term I am sure it fit for work. That is absolutely not the case and I am would pay dividends by way of increased numbers of happy to put that on the record. disabled people back in work and reduced health costs. It is also not the case that there is a target of seeing I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response on 10 people a day. The only indicators and targets that that point. Atos has relate to the quality of the work that it does I also seek a response on several other points. I would for us. We have been careful to make sure that that is the like confirmation of when each of the 25 recommendations case. It would be absolutely inappropriate to have a in Professor Harrington’s report will be implemented, situation in which a third-party contractor was incentivised including a change to the form for claimants that would to reach a particular outcome in an area as sensitive as allow them to describe in detail how their symptoms this. The hon. Lady can be reassured that that is not the and why their condition make it difficult or impossible case. for them to work, and allowing them to receive a summary of the report on them that Atos submits. Before moving on to the details of the Harrington review, I shall address the hon. Lady’s query about the Will the Minister give us details of what the internal review, which was carried out by the previous implementation will mean? How will DWP ensure that Government, which made a number of recommendations the assessment is carried out in accordance with the to us, and with which we have decided, after much recommendations and, in particular, is improved to be thought, to proceed. The internal review was carried fairer and more accurate for people with fluctuating out over the last 12 to 18 months of the previous conditions? That includes what happens to disabled Government. It looked at how the assessment was claimants and those with long-term conditions who working and made a number of recommendations about drop out of the process. Finally, why has the migration changes. It did a number of things in particular, and of the 1.5 million people on incapacity benefit already there are two or three reasons why I decided to accept begun without the implementation of the recommendations the recommendations of the previous Government and to which I have referred? to implement that set of changes—they were introduced This is a debate of immense importance for disabled at the start of last month—to the assessment. The first people throughout the country and for workers who, of them related to mental health. The hon. Lady is not for one reason or another—usually because of the form right on the mental health issue. This is a matter of of work in which they have been engaged—have ended great concern to me. I am acutely aware that mental up with lung or heart conditions and so on. The issue is health problems and fluctuating conditions are crucial, important and is causing a great deal of distress. I await as she rightly said. Getting them right is fundamentally the Minister’s response, particularly on when Professor important. They are the most difficult areas of health Harrington’s recommendations will be implemented. challenge to deal with as we go through the assessment process. 1.16 pm We looked carefully at the impact that changes to the assessment recommended by the internal review would The Minister of State, Department for Work and have on people with mental health conditions. The Pensions (Chris Grayling): I congratulate the hon. Member assessment we have carried out shows, in fact, that more for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) on securing people with mental health conditions will find themselves this debate. It is a useful opportunity to put on the in the support group with long-term unconditional record, once again, the things that we are doing to make support than would have previously been the case. The sure that this is a proper, fair and appropriate process. set of changes we have just introduced should increase I should like to correct the hon. Lady on a number of the number of people who receive ongoing unconditional things that she has mentioned where she has not got her support for mental health conditions. That seemed the facts right or is a little out of date. First, however, I pay right thing to do. 405WH Employment and Support Allowance10 MAY 2011 Employment and Support Allowance 406WH

[Chris Grayling] The most important of Professor Harrington’s key recommendations was about the decision-making process. The second thing we did was to address the fact that We had a situation whereby, up until the past few people in between periods of chemotherapy could, months, the final decision about whether somebody was theoretically, be found fit for work. We did not think found fit for work was technically taken by a decision that that was right and therefore we have excluded maker who was a senior member of staff within Jobcentre people who are in between courses of chemotherapy Plus. Those members of staff had tended to view the from any kind of return-to-work process, as well as outcome of the Atos assessment—the work capability those involved in chemotherapy at a particular moment assessment—as gospel because it was carried out by a in time. Again, that seemed the right thing to do. health care professional. They thought such assessments just had to be rubber-stamped. On the change the hon. Lady referred to in relation to people who are blind, partially sighted or in wheelchairs, We have changed that totally and have created a we had a situation that was inappropriate and wrong. process through which the decision makers are told not Let us think of the motivation behind these changes. only that it is their decision, but that they have to look Fundamentally, we are trying to help people with the at other evidence—for example, the hon. Lady referred potential to work to get into work and not end up to GPs’ evidence. Our decision makers are expected to spending the rest of their lives on benefits. The internal look at other medical evidence submitted by the individual review highlighted that, under the previous system, if concerned and at the GP’s and consultant’s comments someone was a Paralympic athlete with a university to form a rounded view. Indeed, if they believe that they degree, there was no obligation for them to look for a do not have enough evidence, they have the freedom to job. That is not right. Some people who are blind or go back and ask for more. That is a big change. We have partially sighted and are out of work have long since effectively downgraded the role of the work capability adapted to that condition and have worked before. They assessment in the process. It is an important part of the should be looking for another job and it is wrong to say decision, but it is no longer the only part of the decision. that that should not be the case simply because they are That will make a big difference. blind or partially sighted. I am not suggesting that that Professor Harrington highlighted precisely the situation is what the hon. Lady was saying, but that is what the the hon. Lady identified surrounding mental health previous system provided for. We have introduced an conditions. That issue is a hugely complex and sensitive adaptation factor into the assessment, so that a judgment area that needs to be dealt with carefully. Within the is made about how well somebody has or has not Atos health care professional network, Professor Harrington adapted to their condition. That factor will have to be recommended that we introduce mental health champions considered. to whom the assessors can turn for advice if they are uncertain about how to react to particular responses. I want to give the hon. Lady more detailed context on Those champions are already in place. In fact, we have the way in which that consideration now takes place. gone back to Atos and said, “We’d like some more of Over the past few months, we have made big changes to them please.” The numbers will be increased by the the whole process precisely because of the kind of early summer. I am very keen to ensure that we provide issues she has rightly identified. I have no interest a proper focus on and expertise in the mental health whatsoever in putting anybody who is not fit for work field. into a position whereby they are being pushed towards trying to find work. That is not in our interests as Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): On the decision makers Ministers, as a Government, as individuals or as a and support for mental health, could the Minister provide society. Indeed, if somebody is not fit for work, an some numbers and the geographical basis of those employer will not hire them, so we would achieve nothing numbers, because it is an issue of real concern in north from such an approach. Wales? We inherited the internal review and looked at its conclusions, which we have implemented. We set up the Chris Grayling: In terms of the mental health champions, Harrington review precisely because we had concerns of there are I think about 50 in the network. The number the kind that the hon. Lady has raised. She has rightly will rise further and is rising; they are being recruited all looked at the Harrington recommendations, of which the time. By the time the process is finished, there will there are 25. As we stand here today, all the be one champion for about every two to two-and-a-half recommendations bar, I think, two have already been assessment centres. Someone will be constantly on call. implemented and the other two are due to be implemented In some cases, those champions will be present and, in by the end of this month. By the time we get to the other cases, they will be at the end of a phone line. The point in June when the first big wave of people will be hon. Lady made reference to the Harrington reassessed as part of the incapacity benefit-employment recommendation on the individualised statement—the and support allowance migration, all of the Harrington summary of the assessment. We want the champions to recommendations will be in place. The ESA50 form has be involved when the individual concerned picks the already been updated and the various other phone up and says, “I’m not quite sure about this.” That recommendations have all been put in place. I reassure view can be reflected in that statement, which will be her that there is no question of waiting for a point much introduced later this month. So that recommendation later in the year before all that happens; it is happening will have been dealt with as well. now. When Harrington provided his recommendations, something I insisted on with officials is that we cracked Angela Smith: I am very pleased with the fullness of on and delivered these changes, so that they are in place the Minister’s response, but will he comment on the for the IB-ESA migration. situation that threatens individuals with long-term and 407WH Employment and Support Allowance 10 MAY 2011 408WH sometimes terminal conditions, such as emphysema, European Union (UK Permanent who may be fit for some form of work, albeit only for a Representative) few hours a week? Those people are currently failed by the system. 1.29 pm Chris Grayling: I will come on to that because I want to make another point in response to the hon. Lady’s Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con): I am grateful question about fluctuating conditions. Professor Harrington for the opportunity to have this debate, Mr Leigh, and is currently working on that to see if there is anything to the Minister for coming to respond for the Government. else we need to do. However, we are trying to ensure I am also very grateful to my colleagues. To allow for that there is expertise within the Atos network of individuals those who wish to speak, I will try to limit my comments and that training is provided to both decision makers to less than 10 minutes. and Atos professionals about fluctuating conditions. Exactly a year ago today, at an emergency meeting of On the hon. Lady’s other point, a crucial part of this EU Finance Ministers, the then Chancellor, the right jigsaw puzzle is the Work programme that will start in hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling), about three or four weeks’ time. That programme is committed Britain to bailing out the eurozone. The deal designed to provide specialist support for precisely the he struck has made UK taxpayers liable for more than kind of person she has mentioned. She said that the £10 billion—so far. By any measure, that has been a person concerned wants to work, but that he clearly pretty disastrous deal for Britain. Having spent the past cannot work in the job he had before. If we put him into 12 months struggling to cut public spending by £6 billion, the sickness benefits environment and leave him there, we have ratcheted up liabilities worth far more than he will probably never work again. We can offer him the that. opportunity to have specialist support through the Work At a time of austerity at home, the Portuguese component programme, with providers who are contracted on a of the bail-out alone could have covered the basic payment-by-results basis and in a system where we pay salaries of either a quarter of a million nurses or private different amounts for different levels of challenge. For soldiers, 114,000 NHS doctors or 160,000 police constables. example, somebody who is coming off sickness benefits Why are Ministers about to promote Sir Jon Cunliffe, will command a higher tariff than somebody who is a one of the senior officials behind that disastrous deal, conventional job seeker without sickness challenges. to be the next head of the United Kingdom Permanent The aim is to encourage the providers to work with Representation to the European Union? somebody in that position to find a job that he can We do not actually know for certain that Sir Jon will fulfil. be the next head of UKRep. Perhaps the Minister will I do not regard it as acceptable—I am sure that the confirm that in his comments in due course. Indeed, hon. Lady and I share this view—to have a situation despite attempts through parliamentary questions and whereby anyone who has the potential to work is parked letters, and freedom of information requests, we are not on the sidelines and is unable to get the support that even allowed to know that his predecessor, Sir Kim they need to get into work. From our point of view, the Darroch, is standing down next month, in June; we most fundamental part of the change is not to try to know or suppose that only on the basis of anonymous find people who cannot work fit for work. Indeed, those Whitehall press leaks. who end up in the support group—the group that needs My point is this: why should we not know? The head ongoing unconditional support—will get more money of UKRep is a public servant, and yet is almost entirely as a result of the change. without accountability to the public in whose name he The key goal is to identify those people who have the cuts such deals. Not only should the public have a right potential to return to work so that, through the Work to know, but those whom they elect should have the programme and other support provided by Jobcentre right to approve—or indeed veto—candidates for the Plus, we can give them the help they need to get into the role. Through an accident of history, the Prime Minister workplace. That is what this is all about. We will do our has inherited, more or less intact, the powers that once best to get it right, but I am sure that we will make some attached to the monarch: the award of peerages, treaty- mistakes along the way. We have introduced a making powers and, most importantly, the power to reconsideration stage at Jobcentre Plus to try to ensure appoint officials. I propose that those powers should that we catch our mistakes early. However, it is important pass to Parliament. The next head of UKRep should be to realise that this is all about helping people who could appointed following an open confirmation hearing before work to do so. Otherwise, the only alternative is for the Foreign Affairs Committee. them to spend the rest of their life on benefits, and I do Now that we have changed the Standing Orders to not believe that that is in their interests or in any of our free Select Committees from the dead hand of the interests. Whips and placemen, the Commons Select Committees are no longer the hiding place for such people. I believe that the Committees are up to the task of holding the Executive to account. They should be given responsibility for confirming key Executive appointments, beginning with that of Sir Jon Cunliffe. Democratising the appointments process, when it comes to senior officials, is hardly controversial. Indeed, we have been toying with the idea for more than a decade. As early as March 2000, the Commons Liaison Committee issued a report, “Shifting the Balance: Select 409WH European Union (UK Permanent 10 MAY 2011 European Union (UK Permanent 410WH Representative) Representative) [Mr Douglas Carswell] model of accountability for European policy via Ministers no longer works. The Brussels agenda is too vast and all Committees and the Executive”, which mooted the embracing, and the scope of deal making too wide for idea. Indeed, as early as July 2007, the right hon. Ministers to track how it works two or three days a Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), week from London. That leaves too many Ministers in his first statement to the House as Prime Minister, signing deals that they did not actually author, and promised pre-appointment scrutiny hearings—even if nodding through agreements that they have not properly his Ministers chose subsequently to ignore the views of considered. some of us on the Children, Schools and Families Ministers in Brussels might make key decisions about Committee regarding the appointment of a new Children’s what is on the wine list, but in Brussels the real business Commissioner. is conducted all too often by permanent officials. As the great diarist Alan Clark—some of us may have read his Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): My hon. Friend will books—commented about a Council of Ministers meeting be glad to know that the Government are taking the run by UKRep, way back in 1983: issue seriously. Yesterday, the new chairman for S4C, the Welsh television channel, was announced by the “A succession of meetings, but no possibility of getting anything changed…Everything is fixed by officials in advance. Ministers Department for Culture, Media and Sport. The Department shaking hands are just window dressing”. has agreed that the Welsh Affairs Committee will be allowed to undertake a pre-appointment hearing to see I suspect that very little has improved in the past whether it approves the appointment. That is a positive 28 years. way forward and shows that the appointment has to be scrutinised by Parliament. Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): My hon. Friend speaks as if the appointment of Mr Cunliffe Mr Carswell: Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes a as our next ambassador to Brussels is a done deal. Did very good point. As in many things, Wales is ahead of he not read two weeks ago in The Sunday Times a us. His point also shows that across the board there is profile of the Prime Minister by Anthony Seldon, which an appetite for restoring to the people’s tribunes the said that the Prime Minister was taking a close, personal power to say yes or no to appointments made in the interest in this appointment? name of the Crown. It is an abuse of Crown prerogative when key appointments are made without those we elect having the right to their say. Mr Carswell: I did, and I glean the pages of the newspapers for little hints and Whitehall leaks as to Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): Does my hon. Friend who may fill that vital role. Precisely because we are led think that this could happen with immediate effect? to believe that the Prime Minister takes such a keen interest, I have every hope that he may do the right thing and allow the people’s legislature to have the final Mr Carswell: Absolutely. When the chairman of the say on whether that man should indeed occupy that BBC Trust was appointed recently, it was made clear important position. that he would be appointed only following a confirmation hearing. It is one of those great things—it does not I suspect that if Ministers and ex-Ministers today actually require primary legislation, or even a change in were as honest and candid as Alan Clark, they would the Standing Orders of the House, to bring into effect. perhaps admit that much the same happened at the two The Liberal Democrats have supported measures to ECOFIN meetings last May, with officials making key strengthen the legislature over the Executive for as long decisions that Ministers nodded through. The Economic as anyone can remember; I hope that they remain as Secretary to the Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member committed now that they have joined the Executive. In for Putney (Justine Greening), wrote candidly in a letter opposition, the Prime Minister specifically championed dated 18 July to a Lords Select Committee about the the idea of reforming Crown prerogative. In government, decision to participate in a bail-out mechanism: he threw his weight behind the idea of confirmation “While these decisions were taken by the previous Government, hearings, insisting that Chris Patten face such a hearing this Government judges them to be an appropriate response to before being confirmed as chairman of the BBC Trust. the crisis.” Why not hold a similar confirmation hearing for the I am not sure how easily that sits with the Government’s man who, more than any other, will be responsible for claims that we are necessarily reluctant participants in negotiating our future in Europe? As its own website the bail-outs. Perhaps that conveys the impression that states, UKRep Ministers may change, but the permanent officials and “represents the UK in negotiations that take place at the EU the policy that they determine remain the same. level, ensuring that Britain’s interests are heard”. Requiring Mr Cunliffe—or Sir Jon, I should say—to Kim Darroch, the current head of UKRep, apparently appear before the Foreign Affairs Committee to explain “represents the UK’s interests at weekly meetings of heads of why he is the best man to negotiate for Britain in mission from all 27 Member States.” Brussels begins a process of changing all that. Regardless At what point do those who profess to represent our of whether Sir Jon is given the job, the process of national interests answer to the nation for the deals that confirmation hearings would end the appointment and they strike in our name? promotion of senior Europe diplomats without scrutiny. We fight general elections with politicians promising, When George Shultz was US Secretary of State in the to one degree or another, to change policy on Europe, 1980s, he had a routine for appointing US ambassadors. yet in what sense are those who make European policy He would ask them to come into his office and to point answerable to the people’s tribunes? The conventional to their country on a large map in his office. They would 411WH European Union (UK Permanent 10 MAY 2011 European Union (UK Permanent 412WH Representative) Representative) duly point to Kenya, Uganda, Guinea Bissau or wherever. I have a relatively close friendship with the current “Nope,” he would tell them while tapping the USA, incumbent, Sir Kim Darroch, who is a brilliant diplomat. “this is your country.” We should not underestimate the brilliance and intellect It is perhaps no coincidence that the US, which has of some of the top mandarins who have pushed themselves always had a degree of legislative control over both forward and have gone into such roles. Nor should we appointments and treaties, has a clearly defined strategic underestimate their independence. We can, however, vision and a readiness to deploy proportionate force in take something from the European institutions. When defence of its interests. Nor can it be entirely coincidental we appoint European Commissioners, they must go that, when Parliament was supreme and our diplomatic through a confirmation process in the European Parliament, service small and subordinate, we, too, were willing to to which they supposedly answer. The United States, project our interests. Without effective parliamentary too, has confirmation processes for all the top appointments. oversight, however, our salaried officials negotiating My hon. Friend is not going as far as he should: when with Brussels last May managed to make us liable to we have a change of Government, we need a change in bailing out a common currency of which we are not the Administration at the same time. We need to bring even a part. in people who truly believe in what that newly elected For too long, Westminster politicians have contracted Government will do, and we need to have proper out large chunks of international relations to the permanent appointment and confirmation processes for all our top functionaries in Whitehall. Regardless of whether they officials. We should not be so timid as to look only at come from a background in the Treasury, the Cabinet the head of the UK Permanent Representation to the Office or indeed the Foreign Office, we should no longer EU, important as it is. We should expand our view to defer key policy making to unelected officials. include most top appointments. I have been in trialogues Hugo Young,not a man I quote often, was a convicted and all sorts of exciting meetings in European institutions; —sorry, convinced—Europhile, Guardian journalist, author I have seen British representation at its best and at its of “This Blessed Plot”and perhaps the foremost federalist worst, and I have seen deals done behind the scenes and of his generation. He understood how contracting out in front of people. policy to permanent officials had profound consequences During the current passage of the European Union for the development of Britain’s Europe policy. As he Bill through the House of Lords, I noticed a funny perceptively grasped, it meant that Britain’s Europe noise—the opening of the tombs of the Cross Benchers policy was driven by diplomats rather than by their and all those who had served in our diplomatic service elected, albeit nominal, masters or bosses: before they reached that place. I then noticed the amazing “By 1963, a corpus of diplomats was present in and around the energy and dislike for the number of referendums placed Foreign Office who saw the future for both themselves and their into the proposed legislation—a distrust of the people country inside Europe. The interests of their country and their and, indeed, of their elected Government—and the careers coincided. It was an appealing symbiosis.” desperate attempts to change the legislation passed in Sir Oliver Wright, who served as ambassador to this House. Germany and the United States, describes the phenomenon Those people were exhibiting the problem identified as “déformation professionelle”—the skewing of someone’s by my hon. Friend. They do not like the subtle change outlook by his career imperatives. It happens to Whitehall going on, with the European Union Bill providing a lot officials as much as to us politicians. The Europeanism of referendum locks on transfers of competence from of the Whitehall grandee is just one manifestation of Britain to Europe in many policy areas. They are the his déformation professionelle. Hugo Young college of Europe-type persons: they have Unchecked by the people’s tribunes, our salaried been through the process, might rely on a European officials negotiating with Brussels have brought home a pension and enjoy going out with fellow diplomats succession of dreadful deals. If Sir Jon is to get the role everywhere. I worry about the influence of our current of chief deal maker with Brussels, he must come before top civil servants, so I very much welcome my hon. this House to explain why he is the best man for the job. Friend’s ideas. In doing so, he might at last start to realign the policy that officials pursue in our name with the kind of Europe policy that the rest of the country would like Mr Edward Leigh (in the Chair): Another hon. Member to see. wishes to speak and I intend to give the Minister at least 10 minutes to reply, which is only fair, so perhaps the Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con) rose— hon. Gentleman will bring his remarks to a close shortly. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con) rose— Chris Heaton-Harris: I had just done so. Mr Edward Leigh (in the Chair): The hon. Gentlemen may speak if they have had the permission of the hon. 1.45 pm Member for Clacton (Mr Carswell). Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): I am conscious of your comment, Mr Leigh, and will leave the Minister 1.41 pm time to make a full contribution. I congratulate my hon. Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con) I congratulate Friend the Member for Clacton (Mr Carswell) on securing my hon. Friend the Member for Clacton (Mr Carswell) this debate. It is absolutely right that the United Kingdom on securing this 30-minute debate. I come at the subject permanent representative to the European Union should from a slightly different perspective because, in my be subject to a confirmation hearing before either the former life, I was a Member of the European Parliament Foreign Affairs Committee, as was suggested, or some and spent 10 years working with some of the officials other appropriate Committee of the House. There are who performed in the role of the permanent representative. many arguments for holding such a hearing and for 413WH European Union (UK Permanent 10 MAY 2011 European Union (UK Permanent 414WH Representative) Representative) [Mr David Nuttall] Let me briefly give some recent examples of where our mission, UKRep, has played an invaluable role, so having a confirmation process, but no convincing arguments that my hon. Friends get a flavour of the work done in against the idea. I pray in aid none other than the Prime Brussels. In the domestic sphere, UKRep has helped to Minister. defend UK interests by preventing disproportionate My hon. Friend the Member for Clacton mentioned legislation on, for example, the pregnant workers directive that the Prime Minister supported such an idea when and the soil directive. Under this Government, it is Leader of the Opposition, in an article for The Guardian, being extra vigilant in taking pre-emptive action against published on 25 May 2009: any job-destroying employment and social measures. It has also helped to secure outcomes in the UK interests “I believe the central objective of the new politics we need should on cross-border health care, as well as on a range of be a massive, sweeping, radical redistribution of power: from the environmental legislation dealing with industrial emissions, state to citizens; from the government to parliament; from Whitehall to communities; from the EU to Britain; from judges to the hazardous substances and limiting CO2 from vans. people; from bureaucracy to democracy. Through decentralisation, On foreign policy, UKRep has played an instrumental transparency and accountability we must take power from the role in forging and maintaining a strong European elite and hand it to the man and woman in the street.” political stance towards the recent crisis in Libya. It has Politicians and the senior civil servants and advisers taken forward with skill the names of people identified who work for them instinctively hoard power, because by our bilateral posts by successfully negotiating the they think that that is the way to get things done. We detail of the sanctions and travel bans for Egypt, Libya have to kill that instinct, and I know how hard that will and Syria, as well as for Burma and Zimbabwe—in the be, requiring a serious culture change among Ministers latter country in particular, we have specific interests. and Whitehall officials, and beyond. The then Leader of the Opposition went further in Mark Reckless: Would the Minister include in that his speech on fixing broken politics two years ago, in description of UKRep’s various diplomatic successes which he specifically addressed the issue raised today: negotiation of the euro bail-out funds around the weekend of 10 May last year? “We should also limit the use of the Royal Prerogative, so Parliament is properly involved in all big national decisions—and expand the use of confirmation hearings for major public Mr Edward Leigh (in the Chair): Order. This debate is appointments.” about the appointment process for the UK permanent representative. It is perfectly in order for hon. Members We have heard that the Select Committee on Welsh and the Minister to introduce the subject, but we must Affairs is to hold a confirmation hearing for the boss of now return to the appointment process, which is the the Welsh TV channel. If that post in Wales warrants a subject of the debate. confirmation hearing, the post of the UK permanent representative to the EU does as well. We have the perfect opportunity to put the Prime Minister’s idea Mr Bellingham: Thank you, Mr Leigh. I will return into action. I look forward to hearing the Minister to the subject of the debate, but if my hon. Friend the agree with what the Prime Minister said two years ago. Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) writes to my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe, I am sure that he will provide a detailed response, which I do not have time to do now. 1.49 pm Work continues with the development of a reformed The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and effective neighbourhood policy on the back of the and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): I Arab spring, which will continue to require skilful and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Clacton proactive negotiation from UKRep. In the area of economic (Mr Carswell) on securing this Adjournment debate policy, the permanent representative and his team played and bringing the issue before the House today. I also a vital role in ensuring that the Prime Minister was able thank my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris to secure positive and robust language in December for Heaton-Harris), who has huge experience in all matters the next financial perspectives. They also developed a European, and my hon. Friend the Member for Bury broad level of consensus for the Prime Minister’s joint North (Mr Nuttall) for their contributions. They have letter on growth ahead of the spring European Council. obviously spoken on the issue in the past, but my hon. Similarly, UKRep played a vital role in preparing the Friend the Member for Clacton has great expertise, and ground for a good set of European Council conclusions he always brings his passion to bear. on the euro-plus pact. The position of the UK permanent representative to My hon. Friend the Member for Clacton made various the European Union is important. He and his team play comments and assertions about particular officials and a crucial role in advising and negotiating on behalf of their roles in negotiations on EU issues. The topic for the Government on a wide range of issues, promoting debate today is the appointment process, not the policies, and protecting UK interests in the EU. In promoting as you rightly pointed out, Mr Leigh, so I will not dwell and defending national interests, the permanent on the policy issues that my hon. Friend raised, and I representative and the representation, in working groups, will not comment on individual civil servants. However, negotiate important draft documents ahead of councils what is clear to me is the importance of the distinction and European Council meetings. To do so effectively, between the roles of Ministers and officials. Ministers they monitor closely and interact with other permanent take decisions on policies, and are accountable for them representations and EU institutions, principally the to Parliament. Officials in UKRep then negotiate Commission, the Council secretariat, the European External within the mandates and instructions that Ministers Action Service and the European Parliament. have provided. Those mandates are adjusted and updated 415WH European Union (UK Permanent 10 MAY 2011 European Union (UK Permanent 416WH Representative) Representative) as the negotiations progress, but it is a myth that UKRep the British civil service. For those reasons, I continue to has the freedom to operate outside the negotiating believe that to introduce a further stage in the appointment mandates that they receive from Whitehall, or to make process for the permanent representative or for other independent judgments about compromises or deals. senior appointments when a selection has been made The House of Commons has the opportunity, through would not be consistent with the principles of impartiality its excellent European Scrutiny Committee, which is and appointment on merit, and could indeed be seen to under the proactive and assiduous chairmanship of my politicise the appointment process. hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), to set I am sorry to disappoint my hon. Friend the Member out its views on European documents ahead of agreement. for Clacton, but I do not intend to propose that Parliament The Committee has the right to ask for a debate in should be offered hearings on senior appointments. Standing Committee or on the Floor of the House. This That would blur the distinction that I emphasised earlier, Government value the work done by Parliament on EU by implying that officials in UKRep, however senior, work, as it is fundamental to making the Government had some sort of independent role, separate from the of the day more accountable to EU decision-making, as Whitehall process. As I have said, officials implement well as to making the EU process more transparent. the policies and work within negotiating mandates decided My right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe made a on by Ministers, and for which Ministers are rightly statement along those lines to the House on 20 January, always accountable to Parliament. and encouraged the Government and Parliament to However, I welcome the House’s interest in the issues explore ways in which Parliament’s scrutiny role could raised today. I therefore propose that the Foreign Affairs be further strengthened on EU issues, including on Committee be informed in writing of appointments to justice and home affairs. That is the right way for the most senior overseas positions at permanent secretary Parliament to be satisfied that, through ministerial level—obviously including that of the permanent accountability, officials throughout Whitehall and posts— representative to the EU—when the selection has been including the Permanent Representation—are promoting made, providing a copy of the successful candidate’s the national interest effectively in the EU. CV and job specification. In the case of the permanent representative to the EU, I propose sending a copy of Mr Carswell: Will the Minister give way? that letter to the European Scrutiny Committee. I hope that that goes some way—not the whole way, but a Mr Bellingham: I do not have long, so I shall carry small way—in the direction that my hon. Friend wants. on. Like other diplomatic service appointments—I am My hon. Friend is concerned that some questions to coming to key points about the process—I am clear that the Foreign Office have not been properly answered. I the permanent representative’s role is to advise Ministers have looked at the correspondence and some of the on how to secure the best results for the UK in the EU, parliamentary questions that he tabled, and I am satisfied and to negotiate to achieve those results for the Government. that the issues raised by my hon. Friend have been Ministers decide and are accountable to Parliament for addressed as fully as possible. Both officials and Ministers policies on European issues, and for the positions that have addressed the questions about the nature of the the UK Government take in negotiations in the EU. contract and the way in which the permanent representative The appointment process for the position—the appointment is tasked and appraised. of an official, not a politician—therefore follows the Similarly, the permanent representative’s personal general principles followed for diplomatic civil service performance is assessed on a personal basis between appointments, and the code. It is critical that the him and his line manager. My hon. Friend would like to appointment be made on merit. The civil service and make the permanent representative more directly diplomatic service are founded on the principle of accountable to Parliament. I have said that I believe impartiality. Officials must be able to serve with integrity that it is right that Ministers remain accountable to the Government of the day, of whatever political party Parliament for policy decisions and for the positions or parties. taken and agreed in the EU. Robert Peel said to this House in 1827: Around 157 years ago, the Northcote-Trevelyan report “I may be a Tory—I may be an illiberal—but…Tory as I am, I on the organisation of the permanent civil service stated have the further satisfaction of knowing, that there is not a single its principles. It says: law connected with my name, which has not had for its object “It may safely be asserted that, as matters now stand, the some mitigation of the severity of the criminal law; some prevention Government of the country could not be carried on without the of abuse in the exercise of it; or some security for its impartial aid of an efficient body of permanent officers, occupying a administration.”—[Official Report, 1 May 1827; Vol. 17, c. 411.] position duly subordinate to that of the Ministers who are That principle has served successive Governments well, directly responsible to the Crown and to Parliament, yet possessing allowing them when they come to office to make use sufficient independence, character, ability and experience to be of the continuity of expertise and professionalism of able to advise, assist, and, to some extent, influence, those who civil servants and diplomats. Indeed, I have seen for are from time to time set over them.” myself since I was appointed nearly a year ago that civil Those principles held firm 157 years ago, and still do servants and diplomats who served the previous today. Government with great professionalism and integrity Question put and agreed to. now work with Ministers with a different set of priorities. The seamless transition to the new team—the commitment, 1.57 pm tireless hard work and dedication—is a huge credit to Sitting adjourned.

29WS Written Ministerial Statements10 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 30WS Written Ministerial Savings taxation directive The savings directive forms part of the EU’s “good governance in taxation” agenda, which complements Statements G20 efforts to improve international tax co-operation and reflects the latest OECD standards on tax transparency. The Council may hold an orientation debate on Tuesday 10 May 2011 amendments to the directive, which seek automatic exchange of tax information with the aim of combating cross-border tax fraud. The UK fully supports the aims BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS of the amending directive, and hopes that the EU can move towards an agreement. Financial sector taxation UK Trade and Investment (New Strategy) The Commission will present an interim report to the Council on financial sector taxation. The Government The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, are content with the report, which stresses the need to Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): My noble look at financial sector taxation in the round, notes the Friend, the Minister of State for Trade and Industry, importance of establishing the purpose of any financial Lord Green, has made the following statement: sector tax, and sets out next steps. I would like to inform the House of a new strategy for UK Commodity markets Trade and Investment (UKTI), the lead UK Government body for export and inward investment promotion. The new strategy Following discussion by Ministers at the informal sets out the context for the Government’s approach for trade and ECOFIN in April, the Council will agree conclusions investment, including through the recent trade and investment on commodity markets. The Government support the White Paper and growth review. It identifies pathways to balanced conclusions, which aim to: improve the efficiency and growth through trade and investment. It announces the new focus transparency of global commodity markets; improve for our trade and investment promotion efforts. Finally, it explains supply responsiveness and productivity, especially in new ways of working for UKTI. It will run from now to 2015. respect of the agricultural sector; and mitigate demand Alongside it a BIS Economics paper is to be published. “Trade and Investment: the Economic Rationale for Government Support”. for commodities, in particular reducing the energy-intensity Copies of the new UKTI strategy have been placed in the Libraries of future growth. of both Houses. Financial support to Portugal Following the request by the Portuguese authorities for financial assistance and subsequent discussion at TREASURY the informal ECOFIN in April, ECOFIN is expected to adopt a Council recommendation to Portugal with a view to bringing an end to the situation of an excessive ECOFIN: 17 May 2011 Government deficit and a Council decision on granting Union financial assistance to Portugal. The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): Review of the economic adjustment programme for Ireland The Economic and Financial Affairs Council will be The Commission will present the outcome of the first held in Brussels on 17 May 2011. The following items and second quarterly reviews of Ireland’s programme are on the agenda: by the IMF, Commission and ECB in April, and its Regulation on short selling and certain aspects of credit assessment on whether to release the second tranche of default swaps funds. The Government expect the assessment to be Following further work, ECOFIN will be asked to broadly positive. The first tranche of the UK bilateral agree a general approach on the short selling regulation. loan is available to Ireland following the programme’s The regulation intends to harmonise both short selling third review, which is expected to take place in September requirements across the EU and the powers that regulators 2011. may use in exceptional situations where there is a serious Financing climate change, preparation of UN meetings threat to financial stability or market confidence. The Government believe that proposals should not impact In preparation for discussions by the United Nations, market efficiency and liquidity, in particular in relation ECOFIN will be asked to endorse the EU report on to sovereign debt. “Fast Start” climate finance, and to approve Council conclusions on issues and next steps for international Draft general budget for 2012 climate finance. The fast start report sets out details of The Commission will present its draft budget for the ¤2.34 billion of fast-start finance provided by the 2012. The Government believe that, in proposing a EU in 2010, and details of specific actions supported by 4.9% increase in payments, the draft budget for 2012 is this finance. The UK welcomes the report and hopes unacceptable. In line with the agreement made between that any conclusions build substantively on previous the UK, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Finland Council conclusions, as well as demonstrating our in December 2010, the Government’s opinion is that commitment to delivering our long-term climate finance growth in the EU’s annual budget must be curbed, in target. order to reflect difficult economic conditions and tough measures taken by national Governments to cut spending. Information on the informal ECOFIN meeting The Government intend to work with other member The presidency will give a debrief of the April informal states to achieve the best possible deal for the taxpayer. ECOFIN. 31WS Written Ministerial Statements10 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 32WS

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT schemes, identities relevant British, European, international and American standards, and outlines research into the health effects of volatile organic compounds. The report Building and the Environment was commissioned in 2005 at a cost of £45,972. Comparing PStar and co-heating test results—This report by AECOM compares the “PStar” method for The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant determining heat losses from a dwelling with the more Shapps): Today the Government are publishing a further established “co-heating” method. The study showed group of reports presenting the findings from research that PStar tests take three days to complete and have projects commissioned by the previous Administration. the potential to be used for compliance purposes, but There is a significant backlog of unpublished reports the results they produce are different from co-heating that were produced by the previous Government and test results, and further investigations are needed. The over the next few months we will be publishing further report was commissioned in 2008 at a cost of £29,000. reports in groups themed on particular topics. Reducing water consumption in buildings—This report The reports and findings are of general policy interest, prepared by WRc (as part of a CIRIA-led consortium) especially on the issues of building and the environment, addresses issues connected with reducing water consumption but they do not explicitly relate to forthcoming policy in buildings. The report recommendations were used to announcements and are not necessarily a reflection or inform a comprehensive review of Approved Document statement of the current Government’s policy positions. G to the Building Regulations. The report was We are publishing these documents in the interests of commissioned in 2008 at a cost of £117,859. transparency and as part of our freedom of information commitment to publish the results of all commissioned At a time when public budgets must be reduced, the research. For transparency, all completed work is being new Government want to ensure their research delivers published regardless of format or robustness. best possible value-for-money for the taxpayer and that sums expended are reasonable in relation to the public The six reports published today represent the findings policy benefits obtained. My Department has put in from research projects at a total cost of £697,819. These place new scrutiny and challenge processes for future findings cover the topics of building and the environment. research. Any new projects will be scrutinised to ensure Domestic sector airtightness—This report by the Centre the methodology is sound and that all options for for Built Environment assesses the impact on airtightness funding are explored at an early stage. This includes of different methods of construction and the implications using existing work from other organisations, joint funding for future building regulations policy. The work found projects with other Departments or organisations and that certain construction types are intrinsically more taking work forward in-house. airtight than others, and that dry-lined masonry cavity The reports and findings are of general policy interest, and steel-framed construction require much greater especially on the issues of building and the environment, attention to detail if they are to reliably achieve high but they do not explicitly relate to forthcoming policy levels of airtightness. The complexity of design can announcements and are not necessarily a reflection or have a significant impact, and certain approaches are statement of the current Government’s policy positions. likely to be more robust than others. This report was DCEG is publishing these reports in the interests of commissioned in 2003 at a cost of £233,325. transparency. Condensation risk—impact of improvements to Part L Copies of these reports are available on the Department and robust details on Part C—This report by Faber for Communities and Local Government website. Copies Maunsell evaluates the impact of higher insulation and have been placed in the Library of the House. airtightness levels on moisture performance and interstitial and surface condensation risks. It highlights how hygrothermally robust detailing and appropriate workmanship is critical to the achievement of energy EDUCATION efficient, healthy and comfortable buildings; and how possible degradation of building materials and the deterioration of thermal performance as a consequence Munro Review of Child Protection of the calculated maximum amount of moisture should be considered. The report was commissioned in 2003 at a cost of £158,560. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education Evaluation of unventilated pitched roofs with vapour (Tim Loughton): Few things are more important than permeable membrane—This report by Faber Maunsell helping and protecting vulnerable children and young identifies an ideal calculation approach to predicting people. I am reminded daily of the immense dedication condensation risk in unventilated roof systems might be of professionals and their unstinting efforts to keep via a whole building simulation package. It also identifies children and young people safe. Despite this, the system why the performance of roof underlays should not be is not working as well as it should. That is why, in June considered in isolation from the whole roof system last year, the Secretary of State for Education, asked including moisture vapour movement from the interior Professor Eileen Munro to conduct a wide-ranging through the ceiling. The report was commissioned in independent review to improve child protection. 2003 at a cost of £113,103. Professor Munro was asked to set out the obstacles Product emission labelling scheme—scoping study—The preventing improvements and the steps required to improve report by AECOM investigates the potential for introducing child protection, including giving consideration to how a scheme to label building products for their emissions effectively children’s social workers and professionals in of volatile organic compounds. It describes existing other agencies work together. I am pleased to announce 33WS Written Ministerial Statements10 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 34WS that today, following her first two reports, Professor my noble friend Lord Bates (Michael Bates) as a member Munro has published the final report of her review, “A of the United Kingdom delegation to the NATO child-centred system”. Copies have been laid before the Parliamentary Assembly. House. Professor Munro has carried out a wide-ranging and in-depth review. Her report makes 15 recommendations JUSTICE and signals a shift from previous reforms that, while well intentioned, resulted in a tick-box culture and a loss of focus on the needs of the child. Court Funds Office Modernisation I welcome Professor Munro’s thorough analysis of the issues. It is important that we consider carefully, with professionals themselves, how best to respond to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice her proposals to bring about the long-term reform (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): I am pleased to announce needed. today that the Court Funds Office (CFO) will be working I am therefore establishing an implementation working in partnership with National Savings and Investments group drawing together key individuals from the social (NS&I) to modernise the service it provides to clients. work profession, local government, health, police, education Under the Administration of Justice Act 1982, the and the voluntary sector. The Government will work CFO, acting on behalf of the Accountant General of closely with this group, whose membership I will announce the Senior Courts, provides a banking and administration shortly, to develop a full response to Professor Munro’s service for some 140,000 clients with a total of £3.3 billion recommendations before the summer recess. cash and £0.2 billion securities held under the control of I am very grateful to Professor Munro for all the hard the civil courts in England and Wales, including the work, professionalism and expertise she has shown in Court of Protection (CoP). It also acts as custodian for delivering this review and to the many professionals and any investments made with that money. members of the public, including children and young The money held by CFO originates from three main people themselves, who have contributed to it. sources: Damages awarded to children as a result of civil legal action ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE in a county court in England or Wales or the High Court of Justice. These assets are held on their behalf until the child Post Informal Energy Council Meeting reaches majority (18 years of age); Assets belonging to people who lack the capacity to manage their own financial affairs where the CoP has appointed The Minister of State, Department of Energy and someone else to manage their affairs; Climate Change (Charles Hendry): I represented the Cases where money is held in court pending settlement of United Kingdom at the EU Informal Energy Council in civil court action, or on behalf of dissenting shareholders, Hungary on 2-3 May 2011. widows and other clients whose funds are held under a Discussions at the Council focused on the 2050 Energy variety of different statutes. Roadmap. Commissioner Oettinger emphasised the Working with NS&I will allow CFO to take advantage importance of a road map as providing a framework for of the business transformation and service management the EU’s transition to a low-carbon economy with skills, technology, and processes that are already well virtually decarbonised electricity generation and noted established within NS&I. It will provide customers with the importance of considering intermediate milestones, a more effective and efficient service and therefore an for example for 2030. Discussion by Ministers of priorities improved customer experience. for the road map touched on renewables deployment, Clients will interact with CFO in the same way as infrastructure, low-carbon development, the importance they do now and their accounts will be administered in of giving the right investment signals and the need for line with existing legislation. They will also continue to scenarios to be underpinned with robust analysis, including use specific CFO investment products but will not have of costs. I noted that a focus on both low-carbon access, under this arrangement, to NS&I products. The development and energy security was essential as was Accountant General will retain all of their current consideration of the full range of fuel mixes. The discussion responsibilities and be ultimately responsible for the at the Council will feed into the communication that the safeguarding of funds in court. Commission is preparing and planning to issue in the autumn. Over lunch, there was a discussion of external European Judicial Appointments energy relations, which will feed into a communication that the Commission plans to publish after the summer on energy security and international co-operation. This The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice will be one of the priorities for the Polish presidency. (Mr Kenneth Clarke): I am today announcing that the criteria for appointing judges who, on appointment, will be authorised to chair restricted patients cases in FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE the mental health jurisdiction in the health, education and social care chamber of the first-tier tribunal will be NATO Parliamentary Assembly amended to better reflect the needs of the jurisdiction. Restricted patients cases involve individuals who are The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth detained in hospital by virtue of a restriction order Affairs (Mr William Hague): My noble friend Lord imposed by the Crown court, or by virtue of being Hamilton of Epsom (Archie Hamilton) has replaced transferred from prison by direction of the Secretary of 35WS Written Ministerial Statements10 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 36WS

State. The convention has been that retired circuit judges and guidelines. Levels observed in the flights that formed or recorder QC judges who chair the cases must refrain part of the study were comparable to those typically from chairing cases once five years post retirement has experienced in domestic settings. passed. The convention was designed to provide assurance The study monitored a total of 100 flights in five that an experienced member of the judiciary would be different aircraft types: Boeing 757, Airbus 319, 320 involved in decisions on whether to direct the discharge and 321 and the BAe 146. A series of air samples were of a patient and the concept of experience was predicated taken at defined points on all flights, with additional entirely on current experience of criminal sentencing. samples taken during any “fume events” if any occurred. The existing criteria no longer provide the most All flight crew, cabin crew and researchers were requested appropriate basis for determining competency for hearing to complete a post-flight questionnaire, including questions restricted patient cases. While experience of criminal about any fumes or smells that occurred during the sentencing remains central, I recognise that restricting flight. eligibility to recorder silks for appointment to the tribunal The study’s objective was to analyse cabin air for for the purpose of chairing restricted patient cases volatile organic compounds, semi-volatile organic excludes non-silk recorders with heavyweight crime compounds, particles and carbon monoxide in normal experience or substantial relevant experience in such operations during all phases of flight (e.g. climb, cruise, areas as restricted patients cases or the Parole Board. I descent); and to detect and characterise any anomalous also recognise that requiring retired circuit judges or elevations of these elements during any “fume events” recorders to refrain from sitting after five years on the where unusual smells or similar occurrences were reported. panel, in the absence of other factors to suggest they are not suitable, removes individuals with significant and The European standard “Aircraft internal air quality continuing experience of working in this specialist standards, criteria and determination methods” sets jurisdiction. Deployment of available judges is a matter safety, health and comfort limits for a number of substances, for the senior president of tribunals. including two that were measured in the study—carbon monoxide and toluene. The study’s results indicate that The changes will increase the pool from which potential concentrations of both carbon monoxide and toluene chairing judges are drawn, and will retain the services of remained within these limits. In the absence of specific experienced judges. cabin air standards for the other pollutants measured in the research, the study referred to other standards and TRANSPORT guidelines established, for example, for domestic (home) or occupational environments. Again, none of these Aircraft Cabin Air Quality standards or guidelines was exceeded. I am grateful to Cranfield university for their rigorous The Minister of State, Department for Transport and painstaking work. I am also grateful to the participating (Mrs Theresa Villiers): Cranfield university are today airlines which made their flight staff and management publishing their research into aircraft cabin air sampling time and their aircraft available to the project. Without on commercial aircraft in scheduled operation. A link this invaluable practical help, the research would not to the report is being provided on the Department for have been possible. Transport website. The Department will always take the health of persons The consideration of this matter by the Committee on board aircraft very seriously and I hope the publication on Toxicity (COT) in 2007 provided an important of this thorough and independent analysis by Cranfield opportunity to examine this issue in depth. Further university will provide reassurance on this issue. We will scrutiny was provided by the investigation carried out continue to keep in close touch on all aviation health by the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee. matters with the UK’s aviation regulator, the Civil The Department commissioned this independent research Aviation Authority. in 2008 (once tests had been completed to find suitable The Department will now take forward the one remaining scientific equipment for the task) as a result of a cabin air study outstanding—the swab test research recommendation by the COT—the first time such being conducted by the Institute of Occupational Medicine a study had been carried out by any country in the in Edinburgh. world. When that has been finished all the completed research The main conclusion of Cranfleld’s research was that projects will be submitted to the Committee on Toxicity there was no evidence of pollutants occurring in cabin for their consideration so that the public can be assured air at levels exceeding available health and safety standards that this matter has been thoroughly investigated. 19P Petitions10 MAY 2011 Petitions 20P

support to enable them to continue their education and Petitions training post-16. We also announced proposed transitional arrangements to help the majority of young people Tuesday 10 May 2011 who are presently in receipt of Education Maintenance Allowance. We are currently consulting on the proposed PRESENTED PETITION arrangements. Further details of the proposals and the Petition presented to the House but not read on the Floor consultation can be found at: ESOL Funding http://www.education.gov.uk/consultations/. The consultation ends on 20 May 2011. The Petition of students at Loughborough College, Leicestershire, Refurbishment of Hillbourne School, Poole Declares that the Petitioners are concerned about the The Petition of residents of the Borough of Poole, Government’s proposed new approach to English for Declares that Hillbourne School in Creekmoor Ward Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL), particularly is in urgent need of refurbishment. the funding changes to such courses proposed in the Government’s Investing in Skills for Sustainable Growth The Petitioners therefore request that the House of document. Commons asks the Department for Education to make the school the highest priority for resources as they The Petitioners therefore request that the House of become available. Commons urges the Government to consider with caution any changes to ESOL funding to ensure that they do And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by not disproportionately affect marginalised and vulnerable Mr Robert Syms, Official Report, 8 March 2011; Vol. 524, people who are currently studying on ESOL courses. c. 878.] And the Petitioners remain, etc. [P000895] [P000921] Observations from the Secretary of State for Education: On 20 October, the Chancellor announced that OBSERVATIONS Department for Education’s capital budget would be £15.8 billion over the four-year comprehensive spending review period. This settlement is extremely tight, with a 60% reduction in 2014-15 compared to 2010-11. Over EDUCATION the next few years our priority is to reduce the country’s budget deficit. This is essential, as the amount we are Education Maintenance Allowance currently spending on debt interest payments could be The Petition of residents of Leicester and the surrounding used to rebuild or refurbish 10 schools every day. area, We know that there are schools such as Hillbourne Declares that the Petitioners oppose the abolition of School in need of refurbishment, which have missed out the Education Maintenance Allowance; notes that a from previous Government capital programmes, and substantial number of young people are in receipt of that people feel they have therefore been treated unfairly. the Education Maintenance Allowance in Leicester; The Capital Review, recently published on the DFE and further notes that education can provide a better website, recommends that funding for capital should be future for young people. directed at ensuring there are enough school places available locally and addressing poor condition. Although The Petitioners therefore request that the House of the Government are yet to respond to the review we are Commons urges the Government not to abolish the clear that a new system should prioritise areas which Education Maintenance Allowance. are experiencing high pressures to increase the number And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Sir Peter of school places, and those with buildings in the most Soulsby, Official Report, 15 March 2011; Vol. 525, need of repair. c. 273.] Even where funding is tight, it is essential that buildings [P000901] and equipment are properly maintained, to ensure the health and safety standards are met, and to prevent a Observations from the Secretary of State for Education: backlog of decay building up that is expensive to address. We announced in October 2010 our intention to end Therefore, in 2011-12, £1,337 million will be available the Education Maintenance Allowance scheme because for capital maintenance for schools, with over £1 billion it was a very expensive way of supporting young people being allocated for local authorities to prioritise to to continue in education or training and was not well maintenance needs. In addition, £195 million will be targeted on those who are facing the greatest financial allocated directly to schools for their own use. barriers to participation. The capital allocation for 2011-12 for Poole borough On 28 March 2011 we announced a new £180 million council and its schools was announced on 13 December. 16-19 bursary fund. From September 2011, schools, The council will now need to consider how it prioritises colleges and training organisations will be able to target the available funding, having regard to the building support towards those young people who most need needs of the schools in its area.

1057W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1058W

Jim Dowd: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Written Answers to Olympics, Media and Sport what advice he has given to local authorities on the provision of superfast Questions broadband services by (a) BT and (b) other providers. [54584] Tuesday 10 May 2011 Mr Vaizey: Broadband Delivery UK published guidance on 7 March for local authorities in England on local broadband plans. It has also provided data and set up HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION discussion forums for local authorities preparing local broadband plans. Equal Pay Jo Swinson: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, Jim Dowd: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of Olympics, Media and Sport what recent discussions he Commons Commission, pursuant to the answer of has had with Ministerial colleagues on measures to 18 March 2011, Official Report, column 695W, on ensure that local authorities do not use the planning equal pay, what the results of the most recent equal pay regulations to resist the optimum development and audit of employees of the House of Commons Service availability of superfast broadband services. [54585] are. [54528] Mr Vaizey: Discussions have taken place in the context John Thurso: A draft equal pay audit report is complete of Budget 2011 and the Growth Review about the need and the House will be consulting the trade unions on to ensure that the planning regime supports superfast the findings during May. It is expected that a final broadband rollout. The Government have committed version of the report, including a summary version for to reforming the planning system to support economic wider distribution will be available in June. growth and work on that is ongoing. National Archives NORTHERN IRELAND Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Legal Costs Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport for what reasons individuals are not able to take out a subscription to Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for access the National Archives online. [54379] Northern Ireland how much his Department paid in (a) damages, (b) claimant costs and (c) defendant Mr Djanogly: I have been asked to reply. costs in respect of all civil claims brought against his As part of its strategy for making its collections Department in which the claimant was successful or accessible in digital format, the National Archives works the Department settled in each of the last three years. with a variety of partners who make their material [54629] accessible online, nearly all of whose services are available Mr Paterson: Comparable figures for the Department at a variety of subscription rates to individual users. as it is now configured are not available following the However, commercial academic partners who produce completion of devolution of policing and justice functions themed collections of primary historical sources from on 12 April 2010. the National Archives collection currently only sell their editions to university and public libraries. The Since 12 April 2010, my Department has not paid (a) National Archives is actively encouraging these publishers damages, (b) claimant costs or (c) defendant costs in to make such collections as “State Papers Online”available respect of any civil claims brought in 2010-11. via individual subscriptions. These services can also be In answering this question, the Department has assumed viewed at many public libraries which also purchase that the term “civil claims” refers to claims issued in collections from these academic publishers, and the England and Wales, in the courts of civil jurisdiction services are free of charge within their reading rooms. (the High Court and the county courts). The figures In addition, all the records which are available online provided do not therefore include employment-related from National Archives are available free of charge in claims pursued through the employment tribunals. the reading rooms at Kew. The National Archives’ internally-funded service through which original records can be downloaded online, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT “Documents Online”, is currently only available on a pay-per-view basis to individuals and by annual subscription Broadband to institutions such as university and public libraries. Jim Dowd: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, However, a project is under way to provide an individual Olympics, Media and Sport whether he has provided subscription model, work on which is currently expected advice to the London borough of Bromley to assist in to be finished in 2012. its assessment of BT’s plans for superfast broadband in Ofcom the area. [54583] Mr Vaizey: There has been no advice offered to any Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for local authority about British Telecom’s plans or any Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent other private supplier by the Secretary of State, or the discussions he has had with Ofcom on the estimated Department. opportunity cost of use of the 900 MHz and 1059W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1060W

1800 MHz spectrum; and what estimate he has made of ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS the level set for administered incentive pricing of that spectrum. [54377] Biodiversity: Export Credit Guarantees

Mr Vaizey: Ministers have not had any recent discussion Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for with Ofcom on the opportunity cost of the use of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her 900 MHz and 1800 MHz spectrum. The current level of Department has provided information to the Export Administered Incentive Pricing for the 900 MHz spectrum Credits Guarantee Department (ECGD) on the effects is £25 million per annum and for the 1800 MHz spectrum on biodiversity of businesses supported by the ECGD. is £40 million per annum. In December 2010 I directed [54371] Ofcom to revise the annual licence fees applying to the 900 MHz and 1800 MHz spectrum after completion of Richard Benyon: DEFRA has not provided information the auction of the 800 MHz and 2.6 GHz spectrum, so to the Export Credits Guarantee Department (ECGD) that they reflect the full market value of the spectrum, on the effects on biodiversity of businesses supported having particular regard to the sums bid for licences in by the ECGD. the auction. I have made no estimate as to what the level of those future annual licence fees might be. Forests: Developing Countries Olympic Games 2012 Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Department is providing funding to the reducing Olympics, Media and Sport how many tickets for the emissions from deforestation and forest degradation in London 2012 Olympics and Paralympics his developing countries programme. [51986] Department plans to purchase for use by (a) Ministers and (b) officials; for which events; and at what cost. Mr Paice [holding answer 26 April 2011]: DEFRA is [54294] responsible for £100 million for forestry in support of REDD+ (Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Hugh Robertson: Government have bid for 9,000 Forest Degradation), under the UK’s £2.9 billion Olympic Games tickets in total; some of these will be International Climate Fund that was announced in the used by Government for liaison with international and 2010 spending review. domestic political and business leaders, dignitaries and others with a close connection to the Games. We are currently considering how best Ministers can promote Peat UK plc to this audience but, at this stage, the final range of events, dates and number of tickets to be purchased Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for has still to be decided. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) if she will 3,000 of the Government’s bid will be made available introduce mandatory targets for the gardening and to staff who have been heavily involved in the London horticulture industry to phase out the use of peat- 2012 project. All eligible staff have been invited to enter based composts; [54270] a ballot to purchase one pair of tickets, which they will (2) if she will introduce a levy on retail peat-based pay for at face value. composts. [54271] Policy on tickets for the Paralympics is currently being considered in advance of the launch of sales later Richard Benyon: A public consultation on future this year. policy to further reduce and eventually phase out the horticultural use of peat in England closed on 11 March. The consultation proposed that a voluntary, partnership approach is followed to deliver phase out targets, including for the amateur gardener market and professional WOMEN AND EQUALITIES horticulture, and sets out the rationale for doing so. Consultation responses are now being analysed, and Departmental Work Experience will inform the development of a future policy framework.

Chi Onwurah: To ask the Minister for Women and Sewers: Private Sector Equalities what advice the Government Equalities Office provides to those wishing to (a) work as an Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for intern, (b) undertake a work experience placement and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on what date she (c) work as a volunteer in that Office. [52801] expects to publish the regulations relating to transfer of private drains and sewers; and if she will make a Lynne Featherstone: Government Equalities Office statement. [54394] welcomes interest from people wishing to work as an intern, undertake a work experience placement or as a Richard Benyon: Draft regulations to effect the transfer volunteer. of private sewers and lateral drains that connect to the We ask that individuals provide a written request public sewerage system were laid before Parliament on outlining the opportunity they require together with a 26 April and are available online at: copy of their curriculum vitae. www.legislation.gov.uk 1061W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1062W

Water: South East Norman Baker: We are currently in discussion with representatives of transport operators (including the Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Association of Train Operating Companies), manufacturers Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her and user groups, and will publish guidance on scooters Department plans to take to ensure the provision of a on public transport as soon as possible. Any decision sufficient supply of water to meet the needs of people made on scooters being carried on public transport will living in London and the South East in the next aim to strike a balance between the needs of a user to 10 years. [54380] maintain independence and the operating constraints Richard Benyon: All water companies in England and of the industry. Wales are required to maintain 25-year Water Resources Information on existing arrangements, in the meantime, Management Plans which describe how each company is available through individual operators, whose decisions aims to secure a sustainable demand-supply balance are based on their own risk assessments. over the period. Water companies follow a ‘twin track’ approach to managing supplies, considering both demand Motorways management actions and the need for new or enhanced Mr Darling: To ask the Secretary of State for supply to ensure they can deliver secure and sustainable Transport how many miles there are of managed supplies of water to their customers. The current plans motorways that allow the use of the hard shoulder at cover the period 2010 to 2035. peak times; and where they are located. [54041] Mike Penning: The Highways Agency has converted TRANSPORT 42.6 miles of hard shoulder for use during the busiest Aviation: Conditions of Employment periods. The locations of these sites are detailed in the following table. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether he has assessed the levels of (a) Location Length in stress and (b) potential fatigue experienced by pilots miles on standby duty. [53934] M42 J3A-7—Earlswood, west midlands to 21.2 Mrs Villiers: The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has Chelmsley Wood, Birmingham assessed the level of fatigue that could be accrued by M6 J4-J5—Birmingham to Castle Bromwich, 7.8 Birmingham pilots on standby duty and the extent to which hours M6 J8-J10a—Great Barr, Birmingham to Essington, 13.6 spent on standby should count towards duty time limits. west midlands The effect on pilot fatigue of possible stress arising from standby duty was considered as part of the CAA’s Official Cars: Expenditure assessment. The results of the assessment are reflected in the requirements of CAP 371: Avoidance of Fatigue Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for in Air Crews. Transport how much was spent on the acquisition of Car Sharing new Government cars in the last Parliament; and how much has been spent on such purchases since May Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010. [50981] Transport what recent discussions he has had on the promotion of car sharing schemes. [54407] Mike Penning: During the period of the last Parliament from 2005-10 the Government Car and Despatch Agency Norman Baker: In October I held a roundtable discussion spent £4.1 million on the acquisition of outright purchased with car sharing operators to discuss how the Department and leased new cars for use by Ministers. for Transport and the industry could further the uptake Since May 2010 the Government Car and Despatch of car sharing across England. In January, the Department Agency has spent £3,500 on leased cars for use by published the ‘Creating Growth: Cutting Carbon’ White Ministers and nothing on the acquisition of outright Paper, which made clear the Government’s commitment purchased cars. to sustainable travel, including car sharing. Departmental All cars in the Government car fleet are on a routine officials continue to work with local authorities and the replacement programme determined by the age of the car sharing industry to promote car sharing and support vehicle. operators. Invalid Vehicles Roads: Accidents Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport with reference to his Department’s Transport (1) what estimate he has made of the document, Carriage of Mobility Scooters on Public likelihood of being (a) killed, (b) seriously injured and Transport: Feasibility Study, 2006, when he plans to (c) injured as a result of a road traffic accident caused publish his Department’s guidance on the dimensions by (i) a car, (ii) a goods vehicle and (iii) a cyclist based and weight of mobility scooters suitable for use on on the number of accidents each has caused in each of public transport; whether he has had discussions with the last 10 years and the extent to which they use the the train operating companies serving the Brighton and roads; [53983] Hove area on the compatibility of their policies on the (2) what proportion of road traffic accidents that carriage of four wheel mobility scooters with the resulted in (a) death, (b) serious injury and (c) slight Disability Discrimination Act 2005; and if he will make injury were caused by (i) a car, (ii) a goods vehicle and a statement. [53003] (iii) a cyclist in each of the last 10 years. [53984] 1063W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1064W

Mike Penning: No estimates have been made regarding and (b) seriously injured in a collision with (i) a car, (ii) the likelihood of being killed or injured as a result of a motorcycle, (iii) a goods vehicle, (iv) a bus or coach, accidents caused by various vehicle types and the (v) another cyclist and (vi) any other vehicle in each of Department for Transport’s accident data do not assign the last 10 years; [53985] blame or collect information on causes of accidents. (2) how many pedestrians have been (a) killed and However, the information regarding the type of vehicles (b) seriously injured in a collision with (i) a car, (ii) a involved in reported personal injury accidents and their motorcycle, (iii) a goods vehicle, (iv) a bus or coach, (v) involvement rates by severity of accident per 100 million a cyclist and (vi) any other vehicle in each of the last 10 vehicle miles over last 10 years is published in table 10 years. [53986] of “Reported Road Casualties Great Britain—the annual report”. Copies of the said publication have been deposited Mike Penning: The number of reported pedal cyclist in the Libraries of the House. The table can also be casualties, in Great Britain 2000-09, who were (a) downloaded from the Department’s website at the following killed and (b) seriously injured in reported road accidents link: involving another vehicle is given as follows. Accidents involving more than one vehicle in addition to the pedal http://www.dft.gov.uk/excel/173025/221412/221549/227755/ cycle are counted against each relevant vehicle type in 503336/RCGB09tables1to20.xls this table. There will therefore be some double counting within the table. In multi-vehicle accidents, information Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for on the type of collision between the vehicles involved Transport (1) how many cyclists have been (a) killed can not be reliably determined.

Pedal cyclists Accidents involving Cyclist at least one: injury 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Car Killed 58 65 73 69 80 83 93 67 67 61 Seriously 2,059 1,970 1,826 1,809 1,694 1,751 1,804 1,915 1,922 2,051 injured Motorcycle Killed 6702252103 Seriously 45 54 52 45 55 43 56 40 29 46 injured Light goods vehicle Killed 58 65 73 69 80 83 93 67 67 61 Seriously 2,059 1,970 1,826 1,809 1,694 1,751 1,804 1,915 1,922 2,051 injured Heavy goods Killed 31 33 31 26 22 26 25 33 27 19 vehicle Seriously 121 104 100 82 91 80 92 92 85 77 injured Bus or coach Killed 76447104674 Seriously 68 64 63 66 43 56 61 62 61 65 injured Pedal cycle Killed 127 138 130 114 134 148 146 136 115 104 Seriously 2,643 2,540 2,320 2,297 2,174 2,212 2,296 2,428 2,450 2,606 injured Other/unknown Killed 4322132423 vehicle Seriously 34 37 29 22 33 21 22 31 49 33 injured Total pedal cyclist Killed 127 138 130 114 134 148 146 136 115 104 casualties Seriously 2,643 2,540 2,320 2,297 2,174 2,212 2,296 2,428 2,450 2,606 injured

The number of reported pedestrian casualties, in seriously injured in reported road accidents by the Great Britain 2000-09, who were (a) killed and (b) vehicle they collided with is given as follows:

Pedestrians Pedestrian Vehicle injury 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Car Killed 590 531 534 533 462 470 471 433 391 353 Seriously 7,161 6,828 6,496 5,886 5,552 5,251 5,236 5,064 4,909 4,528 injured Motorcycle Killed 44 31 34 27 27 23 28 32 21 9 Seriously 369 364 333 314 283 261 268 257 220 181 injured Light goods vehicle Killed 47 59 41 48 43 55 45 46 30 22 Seriously 382 384 320 332 329 314 280 331 300 277 injured 1065W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1066W

Pedestrians Pedestrian Vehicle injury 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

HGV Killed 101 114 92 91 76 65 69 75 72 65 Seriously 206 186 175 179 141 159 150 150 154 127 injured Bus or coach Killed 60 79 55 57 52 47 53 50 38 40 Seriously 356 351 384 343 356 349 335 337 332 285 injured Pedal cycle Killed 3044133410 Seriously 66 60 47 45 49 61 47 48 52 66 injured Other/unknown Killed 12 12 15 14 10 8 6 6 19 11 Vehicle Seriously 101 65 101 60 97 63 60 91 103 81 injured Total pedestrian Killed 857 826 775 774 671 671 675 646 572 500 casualties Seriously 8,641 8,238 7,856 7,159 6,807 6,458 6,376 6,278 6,070 5,545 injured

JUSTICE Courts: Conditional Fee Agreements

Claims: Accidents Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) how many cases brought on appeal to (a) a Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for circuit judge in the county court, (b) the High Court, Justice with reference to Annex A of the impact (c) the Court of Appeal and (d) the House of Lords assessment of the Cumulative Jackson Proposals, how and Supreme Court were supported by (i) a conditional many and what proportion of the road traffic accident fee agreement and (ii) after the event insurance in each cases in the data set (a) predated and (b) postdated of the last three years; [54378] the road traffic accident claims process; and if he will (2) how many personal injury claims were (a) issued make a statement. [54550] and (b) tried by each county court currently scheduled for closure in each of the last three years; [54458] Mr Djanogly: The dataset analysed does not include the date at which the claim was settled, therefore it is (3) how many and what proportion of claims not possible to identify those cases which pre or post processed through the Road Traffic Accident Claims dated the introduction of the road traffic accident claims portal were funded by (a) before the event insurance, process. (b) conditional fee agreements and (c) other forms of funding in the latest period for which figures are Claims: Personal Injury available; [54459] (4) how many claims proceeding through the Road Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Traffic Accident Claims portal have been concluded at Justice what assessment he has made of the potential stage 3 in each of the last three years; and how many effects on non-personal injury litigants of the removal and what proportion of claims were awaiting disposal of after the event insurance recoverability in the at stage 3 on the latest date for which figures are absence of a qualified one-way costs shifting available. [54460] alternative as proposed for personal injury claims; and if he will make a statement. [54457] Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice holds statistical information in relation to the numbers of claims for an Mr Djanogly: “Reforming Civil Litigation Funding unspecified amount of money that were (a) issued and and Costs in England and Wales—Implementation of (b) tried by each county court that is currently scheduled Lord Justice Jackson’s Recommendations: The Government for closure. Response” was published on 29 March 2011. An updated The following table shows these figures for each year impact assessment was published alongside the response. between 2008 and 2010.

Number of claims for unspecified amounts of money which were issued and tried1 by county courts currently scheduled for closure; 2008-10 Claims issued Claims tried2, 3 2008 2009 2010 2008 2009 2010

Aberdare 108 117 111 14 10 22 Ashford 161 205 206 37 30 28 Bishop Auckland 68 52 60 5 6 5 Burton-on-Trent 217 208 163 13 13 6 Cheltenham 346 375 417 18 7 11 Chepstow 000000 Chorley 394 429 475 0 0 1 Consett 31 41 49 5 5 5 Dewsbury 251 478 420 62 89 90 1067W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1068W

Number of claims for unspecified amounts of money which were issued and tried1 by county courts currently scheduled for closure; 2008-10 Claims issued Claims tried2, 3 2008 2009 2010 2008 2009 2010

Epsom 165 214 234 27 45 46 Evesham 41 49 71 8 8 1 Goole 000000 Grantham 154 152 168 0 1 3 Gravesend 000000 Harlow 399 301 255 36 29 31 Haywards Heath 97 99 96 16 18 12 Hitchin 161 192 173 14 8 10 Huntingdon 73 60 36 0 3 1 Ilford 476 935 586 96 81 56 Keighley 106 109 202 18 19 21 Kidderminster 161 157 120 20 17 7 Lowestoft 101 146 109 8 9 4 Ludlow 13 20 11 0 1 4 Melton Mowbray 31 34 46 1 2 1 Newark3721111 Newbury 79 100 67 1 0 2 Northwich 128 162 234 9 12 25 Oswestry 54 64 48 6 3 0 Penrith 45 62 38 1 0 0 Penzance 54 57 57 11 7 10 Pontefract 445 534 622 43 22 38 Pontypool 100 121 94 4 18 13 Poole 259 280 218 31 42 29 Rawtenstall 2,513 1,671 1,281 2 0 0 Redditch 109 133 124 24 23 34 Rhyl 108 230 174 30 29 27 Rugby 104 91 108 14 5 0 Runcorn 73 93 58 9 19 12 Satford 3,327 4,185 5,355 125 86 75 Shrewsbury 187 175 197 28 14 19 Skegness 003000 Southport 917 1,199 929 58 72 74 Stourbridge 172 221 132 23 16 2 Stratford 32 35 41 6 5 2 Tamworth 128 146 127 12 1 4 Trowbridge 221 247 231 23 12 22 Wellingborough 59 72 56 3 4 1 Whitehaven 89 103 88 8 18 14 Worksop 1,943 637 3 4 6 1 Total 14,737 14,993 14,294 876 818 770 1 The courts which “own” the cases at the trial stage. These may not be the same courts as where the trials are actually located. 2 Includes both claims which involve trials and small claim hearings. 3 For cases with more than one trial/small claim hearing, only the last trial/small claim hearing is counted. Source: Ministry of Justice

The Road Traffic Accident protocol involving the Courts: Domestic Violence claims portal was implemented in April 2010. The Ministry of Justice does not hold figures centrally which specifically Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for relate to personal injury claims or trials, or to the Justice what meetings he has had with the Minister for funding arrangements for personal injury claimants Women and Equalities on the closure of specialist whether by conditional fee agreements or after the domestic violence courts. [54475] event insurance. Personal injury cases including those at Mr Djanogly: There have not been any meetings with stage 3 of the Road Traffic Accident protocol are logged the Minister for Women and Equalities regarding the onto the administrative computer systems. However closure of specialist domestic violence courts. Changes these cannot be accurately distinguished from other to the court estate were subject to public consultation types of cases brought for either an unspecified amount during the summer of 2010 and decisions on the closure of money (where not under the protocol) or under Part of courts were announced in December 2010. 8 (where under the protocol). While appeals are recorded on IT systems, information about how they are supported Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for whether by conditional fee agreements or after the Justice (1) how many (a) constituencies and (b) local event insurance is not held electronically. authority areas will not house a specialist domestic violence court at the end of the court closure programme; [54476] 1069W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1070W

(2) how many specialist domestic violence courts he Haringey magistrates court—the Haringey/Tottenham SDVC plans to (a) open and (b) close in each of the next system will continue at Enfield magistrates court (to be renamed three years. [54622] Tottenham magistrates court as of 1 January 2012). In the following remaining four cases, closure of the Mr Djanogly: The provision of courts in England courthouse will involve the transfer of the SDVC work and Wales is not determined by constituency or local to a court that is currently not part of an accredited authority area boundaries. Many courts, and any specialist SDVC system: domestic violence courts (SDVCs) they might house, Andover magistrates court to Basingstoke magistrates court; serve a number of constituencies and local authority Alton magistrates court to Andover magistrates court; areas and many of these are served by more than one court. Bridgwater magistrates court to Taunton magistrates court; There are, at present, no plans to open any new Grays magistrates court to Basildon magistrates court. specialist domestic violence court systems (SDVCs). As The Ministry and the SDVC National Steering Group at the end of March 2011 there were 143 SDVC systems will give consideration to whether these courts should housed across 176 magistrates courts in England and become part of an accredited system. Wales. Following the closure of those courts announced Guidance has been issued by the National Steering in December last year, there will be an SDVC at over Group to all SDVC partnerships to assist them in 150 courts out of a total of 236 magistrates courts. adapting to the changes presented by the closure of a The court estate reform programme will mean the courthouse within the SDVC system. This is designed closure of 23 magistrates courts which house an SDVC. to ensure that all partners have been involved in the However, the closure of a courthouse is not the same as transfer process, that all operational activities are transferred the closure of an SDVC system. to the desired location and any challenges this presents In the case of the following seven court closures, it is are addressed at an early stage. This will ensure a proposed that the work of the existing SDVC will be smooth transition to the revised court estate, while moved to another courthouse that is part of an accredited maintaining the high level of support for victims of SDVC system: domestic abuse. Acton magistrates court—work moves to the SDVC systems at Uxbridge magistrates court and Feltham magistrates court; Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Barry magistrates court—work moves to the SDVC system at Justice how many domestic violence cases were heard Cardiff magistrates court; in each of the last three years at each of the specialist Hemel Hempstead magistrates court—work moves to the SDVC domestic violence courts scheduled for closure. [54623] system at St Albans magistrates court; Knowsley magistrates court work moves to the SDVC system Mr Djanogly: Records are not kept centrally on the at Liverpool magistrates court; number of domestic violence cases heard at specialist Salford magistrates court work moves to the SDVC system at domestic violence courts. Manchester magistrates court; Rochdale magistrates court work moves to the SDVC system at Bury magistrates court; Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what estimate he has made of the savings to Tamworth magistrates court work moves to the SDVC system at Burton magistrates court. accrue through proposed closures of specialist domestic violence courts. [54624] In the case of the following 12 court closures, the closing courthouse is only one within a system and so the system remains operational at other courthouses: Mr Djanogly: Savings from court closures are accrued through the closure of a courthouse rather than the Aberdare magistrates court—the Rhondda Cynon Taff SDVC system will continue at Pontypridd magistrates court; closure of any specialist domestic violence court system that may be housed at a courthouse. Savings specifically Daventry magistrates court—the Northamptonshire SDVC system will continue at Corby, Kettering and Northampton magistrates from the closure of specialist domestic violence court courts; systems at closing courthouses have therefore not been Goole magistrates court—the East Riding SDVC system will estimated separately. continue at Beverley and Bridlington magistrates courts; Estimated gross savings from all court closures Dewsbury magistrates court—the Kirklees SDVC system will announced in December are in the region of £41.5 million continue at Huddersfield magistrates court; over the spending review period. We also hope to achieve Lewes magistrates court—the East Sussex SDVC system will £38.5 million in receipts from the sale of assets. continue at Hastings and Eastbourne magistrates courts; Pontefract magistrates court—the Wakefield SDVC system Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for will continue at Wakefield magistrates court; Justice (1) what estimate he has made of the longest Rugby magistrates court—the Warwickshire SDVC system journey from a home address by public transport that a will continue at Nuneaton and Stratford upon Avon magistrates victim of domestic violence would have to travel to get courts. to a specialist domestic violence court once all courts Selby magistrates court—the York and Selby SDVC system earmarked for closure have closed; [54663] will continue at York magistrates court; Towcester magistrates court—the Northamptonshire SDVC (2) what consideration was given to (a) the potential system will continue at Corby, Kettering and Northampton magistrates distance a victim of domestic violence would have to courts; travel from a home address to reach a specialist West Bromwich magistrates court—the Sandwell SDVC system domestic violence court, (b) concerns of such a person will continue at Warley magistrates court; about travelling long distances away from home and Whitehaven magistrates court—the West Cumbria SDVC system (c) any associated concerns when determining which will continue at Workington magistrates court; courts to close; and if he will make a statement. [54664] 1071W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1072W

Mr Djanogly: The court estate consultation response amenity only and do not represent total damages or documents detail the percentage of the population in include other heads of damage; and if he will make a each area estimated to be within a 60-minute public statement; [54549] transport commute of their local court, before and after (2) with reference to paragraph 1.8 of Annex A of closures. It is not possible to assess the particular impact the impact assessment of the Cumulative Jackson on victims of specific crimes. Proposals, in how many of the cases comprising the Following the closure of those courts announced in dataset the damages settlements (a) were global and December last year, there will be a SDVC at over (b) included damages other than pain, suffering and 150 courts out of a total of 236 magistrates courts. loss of amenity; how many such cases there were in The equality impact assessments (EIAs) that accompany each case category of (i) employer liability, (ii) public each of the 16 former HMCS area consultation responses liability and (iii) road traffic accident; and if he will papers identify the potential impacts of the court estate make a statement. [54551] reform programme on different communities and groups of people. Mr Djanogly: The dataset analysed includes figures for general damages, and special damages where applicable. Damages However, for some low value claims, the settlements may be global and so there may be negligible special Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for damages recorded. Justice how he plans to review the discount rate under The dataset received contained a split between general the Damages Act 1996; what representations he has and special damages in all cases, and we cannot tell received on the matter; and if he will make a statement. from the dataset whether a global settlement was made [54552] or not. Similarly, we do not hold the detail of those damages which specifically relate to pain, suffering and Mr Djanogly: The Lord Chancellor is in the process loss of amenity. The fact that general damages may not of reviewing the discount rate. In this context he has always equate to pain, suffering and loss of amenity is sought views from HM Treasury and the Government noted in paragraph 1.18, point vi). Actuary as required by the Damages Act 1996, and has received representations from the Association of Personal Prisoners: Childbirth Injury Lawyers and the Association of British Insurers. In the light of the views received he has decided to conduct a wider consultation on the methodology to be Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice used in setting the discount rate. A consultation paper how many children were born in each prison in will be published soon, and the review will be completed England and Wales in each of the last 10 years; and if on as timely a basis as possible. he will make a statement. [54845] Damages: Employers’ Liability Mr Blunt: Information on the number of women who have given birth in prison is not collected centrally and Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for could be provided only at disproportionate cost, as in Justice with reference to Annex A of the impact order to provide this information staff would need to assessment of the Cumulative Jackson Proposals, for look at each individual’s record. what reason (a) the chart at paragraph 1.23 shows that 75 per cent. of general damages in employer liability Prisoners: Females cases are below £10,000 and 10 per cent. of such cases are between £10,000 and £20,000 and (b) the results table in Annex A shows that current average general Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice damages in such cases is £10,436. [54548] how many and what proportion of women in prison who have one or more previous convictions had a Mr Djanogly: The figures provided in the results table residential address prior to imprisonment up to (a) in Annex A of the impact assessment are average figures 100, (b) 75, (c) 50 and (d) 25 miles from their present from the dataset analysed, which contained 5,041 Employer prison; and if he will make a statement. [54844] Liability cases (accident only). General damages in the dataset ranged from £1,000 to £100,000, with the mean Mr Blunt: The information requested is not available. average general damages calculated at £10,436. Although the Ministry of Justice publishes information on the criminal histories of female offenders in prison, This average does not provide any detail of the the data sources used do not hold information on the distribution of these general damages; the chart at distance between the home addresses of the prisoners paragraph 1.23 provides further detail. There are some and their current prison. cases with general damages significantly above £10,000 that brings up the average, despite accounting for a small proportion of the dataset. Prisons

Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) with reference to the results table in Annex Justice what the (a) target and (b) actual (i) total A of the impact assessment of the Cumulative Jackson hours achieved per establishment and (ii) average hours Proposals, what steps his Department has taken to achieved per inmate in respect of each of the ensure that the analysed figures for current average monitored activities set out in Prison Service Orders general damages and new average general damages 7100a and 7101 was in each prison establishment in represent damages for pain, suffering and loss of each of the last 10 years. [54690] 1073W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1074W

Mr Blunt: The information requested has, where available, RAF Lossiemouth been placed in the Library of the House. RAF Lyneham It should be noted that targets for purposeful activity RAF Northolt apply to the average hours of all purposeful activity per RAF Valley prisoner per week, rather than to the activities individually. RAF Waddington. Targets are available for 2002-03 to 2009-10. The total hours and the average hours per prisoner Armed Forces: HIV Infection per week achieved for each establishment are shown for the years 2000-01 to 2009-10. Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for The figures used in the answer have been drawn from Defence what assessment he has made of the potential administrative IT systems, which, as with any large-scale effect of a diagnosis of HIV on the (a) role and duties, recording system, are subject to possible errors with (b) terms of service and (c) employment prospects of data entry and processing. a person serving in the armed forces. [54920] Prisons: Private Sector Mr Robathan: Service personnel diagnosed as HIV positive are managed according to their medical condition, Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice their treatment needs and their specific role within HM what the (a) operational capacity and (b) prison armed forces. All cases are dealt with on an individual population was of each private sector prison on basis and so it is not possible to predict the potential 25 March 2011; and if he will make a statement. effect of a diagnosis of HIV. [55002] Service policy does not discriminate against individuals with HIV infection or AIDS. Personnel diagnosed as Mr Blunt: The operational capacity and population HIV positive are therefore managed in accordance with of each private sector prison on 25 March 2011 is set normal downgrading and subsequent employability out in the following table. This information is published arrangements. However, those with AIDS are normally monthly on the MOJ website via the following link: recommended for medical discharge. www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/prisons- and-probation Armed Forces: Olympic Games 2012 Operational capacity and population of private sector prisons as at 25 March 2011 Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Operational Defence what plans he has to assign HMS Bulwark and Establishment capacity Population HMS Albion to duties supporting the London 2012 Olympics. [54541] Altcourse 1,324 1,139 Ashfield 360 357 Nick Harvey: The Ministry of Defence is working Bronzefield 527 522 with the Home Office, police and other Government Doncaster 1,145 1,102 Departments to identify what support the military may Dovegate 1,135 1,109 provide to the 2012 Olympics. Defence is currently Forest Bank 1,394 1,363 considering requests and planning is ongoing; no decisions Lowdham Grange 930 935 have yet been made regarding the use of Royal Navy Parc 1,470 1,453 vessels. Peterborough 1,008 980 Rye Hill 625 622 Armed Forces: Recruitment Wolds 395 353 Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) how much his Department budgeted for recruitment in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09 and (c) DEFENCE 2009-10; and if he will make a statement; [51831] Air Force: Snow and Ice (2) how much his Department spent on marketing for recruitment purposes in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09 and (c) 2009-10; and if he will make a statement. Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State [51832] for Defence which RAF stations in the UK have an enhanced level of snow and ice clearing equipment. Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence does not [54035] have a specific budget for recruitment. Budgets are delegated to Top Level Budget holders who set an Nick Harvey: Priority for the allocation of snow and estimate for recruitment spend at the beginning of each ice clearing equipment is given to main operating bases financial year. and flying establishments with a high readiness role to meet operational requirements. Those RAF stations The following table, however, shows Ministry of Defence with the highest priority for this equipment are listed expenditure on advertising and marketing for recruitment alphabetically as follows: purposes for the last two years as set out in our Annual Report and Accounts. This is predominantly on a national RAF Boulmer basis but may not include significant amounts of regional RAF Brize Norton spend. The different ways in which each of the services RAF Coningsby carry out their activities means that there are variations RAF Leuchars in how their data is consolidated. 1075W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1076W

Consolidated data on marketing spend are not available Nick Harvey: Basic ground sign awareness training is prior to 2008-09. provided as part of the initial phase training for military personnel. This is further developed in hybrid foundation £ million and mission specific training.

2008-09 62.4 During hybrid foundation training selected students (ranked Sgt and above) from all three services who are 2009-10 29.5 scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan complete a ground sign awareness instructor’s course and are then required Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for to cascade training to personnel in their units. Cascade Defence what restrictions his Department applies to training is delivered in both hybrid foundation training the recruitment to the armed forces of people and the early stages of mission specific training. The diagnosed with HIV solely on the basis of their latter also offers collective training opportunities to test HIV-positive status. [54919] and revise ground sign awareness, with its incorporation into a number of field exercises. Finally, these skills are Mr Robathan: There is no routine pre-employment refreshed again in Afghanistan as part of the Reception, screening for HIV for individuals wishing to join the Staging and Onward Integration package, which all armed forces. However, those who declare a history of personnel must complete before deploying on operations. being HIV seropositive are unfit for entry. Aviation: Training Armed Forces: Redundancy Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made on the effects on Defence how many service personnel have been made pilot training for the GR4 Tornado and Typhoon fleet redundant from each of the armed forces in each of the current operational tempo. [53571] month since the date of the strategic defence and security review; and how many personnel he expects to Nick Harvey: The current operational tempo has not be made redundant from each of the armed forces in had an effect on pilot training for the Tornado GR4. each of the next 12 months. [54772] Prioritising of Typhoon resources for current operations Mr Robathan: No service personnel have been made has meant that the output from the Operational Conversion redundant since the date of the strategic defence and Unit (where pilots are trained to operate specific aircraft security review. At present, it is not known how many types) for trainee-Typhoon pilots is temporarily reduced. service personnel may be made redundant within the The relationship between operational commitments, next 12 months. Those whose applications for redundancy resources and training is constantly monitored. are successful will leave after six months’ notice and those selected for redundancy who did not apply will Departmental Procurement leave after 12 months’ notice. The first tranche of redundancy notices will be issued on 1 September 2011 for the Army and RAF and on 30 September 2011 for Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for the naval services. The armed forces redundancy programme Defence which contracts his Department has is expected to deliver up to 11,000 redundancies across renegotiated since May 2010; and what estimate he has the three services and should be completed by 31 March made of the savings to his Department arising from 2015. each such contract renegotiation. [54401]

Armed Forces: Training Nick Harvey [holding answer 9 May 2011]: Progress on the renegotiation of contracts relating to strategic defence and security review decisions has meant that Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence from our earlier start point of 130, we are now examining whether his Department’s defence co-operation in excess of 300 contracts; this is expected to increase to agreement with Libya includes training specialised some 500 contracts in due course. We expect the process military units; and if he will make a statement. [48574] of renegotiating these contracts to continue into 2012. Nick Harvey: The Accord on Defence Co-operation Initial focus has been on the contracts that will deliver and Defence Industrial Partnership, signed by the previous the highest savings in the early years of the comprehensive Government, with Libya in 2007, allows for a range of spending review period. The Ministry of Defence has activities, including the training of specialised military already renegotiated around 30 contracts relating to the units. Nimrod and Harrier programmes. However, I am withholding details of each specific negotiation as its No activity is taking place under this agreement at disclosure would prejudice commercial interests. present. In view of the current circumstances in Libya, the agreement is effectively in suspension. Its long-term future will be determined in the light of the resolution Departmental Public Bodies of events in Libya. Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Defence (1) how much funding his Department has what ground sign awareness training is conducted in allocated under each budget heading to the (a) hybrid foundation training and (b) mission Independent Monitoring Board for the Military specific training. [54796] Corrective Training Centre in 2011-12; [54419] 1077W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1078W

(2) when the Independent Monitoring Board for the of the British Army in particular, but not exclusively, by Military Corrective Training Centre was established; collecting conserving, preserving, managing, exhibiting [54420] and storing documents, pictorial records, artefacts and (3) how many staff of his Department are working printed materials in collection. for the Independent Monitoring Board for the Military On current plans, funding for the National Army Corrective Training Centre; and how many such staff Museum is as follows: are on (a) temporary and (b) permanent contracts; [54685] £ million (4) budget for the Independent Monitoring Board for the Military Corrective Training Centre was in the 2011-12 5.6 most recent year for which figures are available; and 2012-13 5.7 how much was spent on the Board under each cost 2013-14 5.9 category in that period. [54710] 2014-15 6.0

Mr Robathan: The Independent Monitoring Board Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for (formerly the Independent Board of Visitors), for the Defence (1) how much funding his Department Military Corrective Training Centre Colchester, was provided to the Nuclear Research Advisory Council in established in 1980. The board inspect the centre at least the last 12 months; and under what budget headings twice a year and report their findings to Ministers. They such funding was spent; [54423] inspect, among other things, the condition of the premises and the treatment, health and welfare of detainees. The (2) what plans his Department has for future funding arrangements are very similar to those in place for of the Nuclear Research Advisory Council; [54424] civilian detention facilities in the UK. (3) what the (a) purpose and (b) function is of the The Ministry of Defence provides secretariat and Nuclear Research Advisory Council; [54425] administrative support for the Independent Monitoring (4) when the Nuclear Research Advisory Council Board. The board receives no direct funding from the was established; [54426] Ministry of Defence, though travel expenses incurred (5) how many staff of his Department are employed by and recruitment costs of its members are funded by by the Nuclear Research Advisory Council; and how the Military Corrective Training Centre. Travel expenses many such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) amount to less than £3,000 per annum. Recruitment permanent contracts. [54429] costs occur as and when vacancies arise and in 2010-11 amounted to some £2,500. Mr Robathan: The Nuclear Research Advisory Council (NRAC) is an advisory non-departmental public body Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for and, as such, does not incur expenditure on its own Defence what plans his Department has for the future account. Expenditure on fees and reimbursement of level of funding for the National Museum of the Royal travel and subsistence for the financial year 2010-11 Navy. [54421] have not yet been finalised but is estimated to be some Mr Robathan: The National Museum of the Royal £49,000. Navy (NMRN) was established in April 2009 and consists As an advisory non-departmental public body, the of the Royal Naval Museum, and the Fleet Air Arm NRAC does not incur expenditure on its own account. Museum, Royal Marines Museum and Royal Navy Future expenditure will be incurred against any agreed Submarine Museum, the latter three are in the process programme of specific scientific advice. of integrating into the NMRN. The aims of the NMRN The NRAC’s purpose and function is to advise Chief are to capture the enduring spirit of the naval service, to Scientific Advisor on the technical direction and adequacy provide a clear heritage strategy for the Naval Service of the UK’s nuclear warhead research and capability and raise awareness of the vital contribution the Naval maintenance programme, including experiments and Service has made to national security and the nation’s other facilities and techniques necessary to design, prosperity in the past and in the future. manufacture, sustain and operate a UK nuclear weapon The currently anticipated future funding for the body capability in the absence of underground testing. The for the spending review period is as follows: Council also examines the UK’s programme of international collaboration. £ The NRAC was established in 1996. 2011-12 3,454,843 The NRAC does not employ staff on its own account. 2012-13 3,809,825 The Ministry of Defence provides the support functions 2013-14 3,809,365 for the body. 2014-15 3,235,178 Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) how many staff of his Department are Defence what plans his Department has for future employed by the Oil and Pipelines Agency; and how many such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) funding of the National Army Museum. [54422] permanent contracts; [54427] Mr Robathan: The National Army Museum was (2) how much funding his Department provided to incorporated by Royal Charter on 8 April 1960. Its the Oil and Pipelines Agency in the last 12 months; and objectives are to educate and inform the public and under what budget headings such funding was spent; members of the Army about the history and traditions [54428] 1079W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1080W

(3) what plans his Department has for future levels of and quality of medicines and medical devices that may funding for the Oil and Pipelines Agency. [54430] be deployed and employed by the armed forces; specific advice on medical products that are unlicensed or Ministry Mr Robathan: The Oil and Pipelines Agency (OPA) is of Defence intends to use for a purpose other than its sponsored by the Ministry of Defence (MOD) and is licensed use; peer review research, development and responsible for managing the Government Pipeline and acquisition programmes that will deliver future operational Storage System (GPSS). It oversees all aspects of the medical capability; provide independent advice on policy, operation and maintenance of the pipeline and storage doctrine, training and practice issues. facilities, ensuring that UK military requirements for As an advisory non-departmental public body it will aviation fuel are met. The OPA generates the majority advise Ministers, but not employ staff or incur expenditure of its income from charges levied on commercial operators on its own account. The Surgeon General will be a and other countries who also use the GPSS. member of the Executive Committee and will provide The OPA is not funded by the MOD and there are no the secretariat functions for the committee from existing plans to change this arrangement in the future. However, full time HQ Surgeon General Staff. In addition, the the OPA charges the Department an annual fee for committee may draw on the pool of expertise found managing the GPSS on its behalf; this is met from within the Ministry of Defence and other Government income generated by the agency from other sources. In Departments for specific tasks. financial year 2010-11 the fee was approximately £3 million. The total cost to the Department for work undertaken Two MOD permanent civilian employees are currently by AGOMM during the financial year 2010-11 was seconded to the OPA for fixed terms. All costs associated £5,063.73. This was broken down as follows: daily rate with these appointments are funded by the agency. staff costs of £2,562.00, travel and subsistence costs of £2,501.73. It should be noted that AGOMM is scheduled Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for to meet at least twice a year, but only met once in Defence what plans his Department has for future 2010-11. Work is currently under way to finalise the levels of funding for the Royal Air Force Museum. tasking arrangements for the financial year 2011-12. If [54431] AGOMM does meet twice in 2011-12 then an approximate doubling of expenditure shown for 2010-11 is expected. Mr Robathan: The Royal Air Force Museum was established in 1963. Its purpose is to educate and inform Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for the public and members of the Royal Air Force about Defence (1) when the Advisory Committee on the roles, history and traditions of the Royal Air Force Conscientious Objectors was established; [54440] by exhibiting aircraft and other artefacts, documents (2) what the purposes and function is of the and pictorial records. Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors; On current plans funding for the RAF Museum is as [54441] follows: (3) what plans he has for future levels of spending on £ million the Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors; [54442] 2011-12 7.7 (4) what the budget was for the Advisory Committee 2012-13 7.9 on Conscientious Objectors for each category of 2013-14 8.1 spending in 2010-11; [54443] 2014-15 8.3 (5) how many staff of his Department work for the Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors; and Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for how many such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) Defence (1) when the Advisory Group on Military permanent contracts. [54444] Medicine was established; [54435] (2) what the purpose and function is of the Advisory Mr Robathan: The Advisory Committee on Group on Military Medicine; [54436] Conscientious Objectors was established in 1970. (3) what plans he has for future levels of spending on Its purpose is to hear appeals from service personnel the Advisory Group on Military Medicine; [54437] whose applications to retire or resign from further (4) what the budget is for the Advisory Group on service on the grounds of conscience have not been Military Medicine in each category of spending in each accepted by the service authorities. year of the comprehensive spending review period; As the Advisory Committee only incurs expenditure [54438] when it is required to meet, there are no plans with (5) how many staff of his Department work for the regard to future levels of spending. The Advisory Advisory Group on Military Medicine; and how many Committee does not have an annual budget and incurs such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) permanent expenditure only when it is required to meet. On such contracts. [54439] occasions, its costs are paid for from within the existing resources of the Ministry of Defence (MOD)’s Central Mr Robathan: The Advisory Group on Military Medicine Legal Services budget. The most recent hearing in 2010 (AGOMM) was approved by the Cabinet Office as a cost around £700, which was made up of the fees and non-departmental public body in August 2008, continuing expenses of the panel members. the work previously undertaken by the Advisory Group The MOD provides the secretariat function for the on Medical Countermeasures (AGMC). Its purpose is Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors from to provide: independent statements on the safety, efficacy within existing permanent staff resources. 1081W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1082W

Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for (4) what plans he has for future levels of funding for Defence (1) for what reasons he plans to abolish the the Science Advisory Committee on the Medical Animal Welfare Advisory Committee; [54445] Implications of Less-Lethal Weapons; [54471] (2) when the Animal Welfare Advisory Committee (5) how many staff of his Department work for the was established; [54446] Science Advisory Committee on the Medical (3) what the purpose and function is of the Animal Implications of Less-Lethal Weapons; and how many Welfare Advisory Committee; [54447] such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) permanent (4) what plans he has for future levels of funding for contracts. [54472] the Animal Welfare Advisory Committee; [54448] (5) what the budget was for the Animal Welfare Mr Robathan: The Science Advisory Committee on Advisory Committee for each category of spending in the Medical Implications of Less Lethal Weapons 2010-11; [54449] (SACMILL) was approved as a non-departmental public (6) how many staff of his Department work for the body in June 2009 and will be established soon. It is Animal Welfare Advisory Committee; and how many expected to be established later this year and it will such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) permanent continue the work previously undertaken by the Defence contracts. [54450] Science Advisory Council Subcommittee on the Medical Implications of Less Lethal Weapons (DOMILL). Mr Robathan: I refer the right hon. Member to the SACMILL’s purpose will be to provide: advice on the statement given on 21 July 2010, Official Report, column biophysical, biomechanical, pathological and clinical 15WS, by the Under-Secretary of State for Defence aspects of generic classes of Less Lethal Weapons; Equipment, Support and Technology, my hon. Friend independent statements on the medical implications of the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff). use of specific Less Lethal Weapons; advice on the risk of injury from specific Less Lethal Weapons systems Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for striking specific areas of the body in a format that will Defence (1) when the Veterans Advisory and Pensions assist those responsible for developing policy and, separately, Committees was established; [54463] guidance to users, as well as operational users themselves (2) what the budget was for the Veterans Advisory in making tactical decisions. and Pensions Committees in each category of spending in 2010-11; [54464] As an advisory non-departmental public body it will advise Ministers, but not employ staff or incur expenditure (3) what plans he has for future levels of spending on on its own account. The Surgeon General will be a the Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees; member of the Executive Committee and will provide [54465] the secretariat functions for the committee from existing (4) what the purpose and function is of the Veterans full-time HQ Surgeon General Staff. In addition, the Advisory and Pensions Committees; [54466] committee may draw on the pool of expertise found (5) how many staff of his Department work for the within the Ministry of Defence and other Government Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees; and how Departments for specific tasks. many such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) The total cost to the Department for DOMILL legacy permanent contracts. [54467] work undertaken during the financial year 2010-11 was £39,355.56, principally for travel and subsistence costs. Mr Robathan: 13 regional Veterans Advisory and Work is currently under way to finalise the tasking Pensions Committees (VAPCs) were established in 2010 arrangements for the financial year 2011-12; a similar as a 12 month pilot to build on the role of the War level of expenditure as the previous year is expected. Pensions Committees. Their purpose is to provide advice, assistance and support to the service and ex-service community on pensions and compensation. They also Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for provide advice and raise awareness to other public Defence (1) when the Review Board for Government bodies and the local communities on the needs of Contracts was established; [54473] veterans. The Ministry of Defence provides the secretariat functions for the VAPCs, this equates to 1.25 permanent (2) what the purpose and function is of the Review staff. The annual budget for 2011-12 is £41,000 and the Board for Government Contracts; [54474] main items of expenditure are travel and subsistence. (3) what plans his Department has for future Members are volunteers and receive out of pocket expenditure on the Review Board for Government expenses. Contracts; [54675]

Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for (4) how many staff of his Department are employed Defence (1) when the Science Advisory Committee on by the Review Board for Government Contracts; and the Medical Implications of Less-Lethal Weapons was how many such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) permanent contracts; [54677] established; [54468] (2) what the purpose and function is of the Science (5) what his Department’s budget for the Review Advisory Committee on the Medical Implications of Board for Government Contracts was in the most Less-Lethal Weapons; [54469] recent year for which figures are available; and how much was spent on the Board under each cost category (3) what the budget contribution from his in that period. [54713] Department was for the Science Advisory Committee on the Medical Implications of Less-Lethal Weapons Mr Robathan: The Review Board for Government under each budget heading in 2010-11; [54470] Contracts was established in 1968. 1083W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1084W

The primary purpose of the Review Board is regularly and, as such, it does not employ staff on its own to review and maintain the Government Profit Formula account. The Ministry of Defence provides the support used by the Ministry of Defence (MOD) when pricing functions for the body. single source work. A second function of the Review The DNSC does not incur expenditure on its own Board is to review the price of individual contracts account. Expenditure on fees and reimbursement of which are referred to it under contract conditions, by travel and subsistence for the financial year 2010-11 is one or both parties to the contract. estimated to be some £65,000. Future expenditure will The arrangements for single source pricing—which be incurred against any agreed programme of specific include the role of the Review Board—are currently the advice. subject of an independent review by Lord Currie of The DNSC’s purpose and functions are to advise the Marylebone 26 January 2011, Official Report, House of Secretary of State for Defence on all safety matters Lords, column 11WS. Until such time as any changes in pertaining to the naval nuclear propulsion plant and the current arrangements are accepted and implemented nuclear weapon systems, including related issues of the Government has stated that they expect the Review design, development, manufacture, storage, in service Board to continue in its current role. support, handling, transport, operational training, support Under the terms of the 1968 Agreement establishing facilities and capabilities, the safety of workers and the the Review Board, its Secretariat is provided public. “by the engagement of a firm of professional accountants”. The DNSC was established in 1999. The requirement for secretariat services to the board is periodically advertised under competitive tender processes Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for and is currently provided by Deloitte LLP. Defence (1) how many staff of his Department are employed by the Defence Scientific Advisory Council; No members of MOD staff are permanently or and how many such staff are on (a) temporary and temporarily employed by the Review Board for Government (b) permanent contracts; [54681] Contracts. (2) what plans his Department has for future In 2010-11 the Review Board incurred the following expenditure on the Defence Scientific Advisory costs (figures include estimated accrued costs of £93,000 Council; [54682] for March 2011): (3) what the (a) purpose and (b) functions are of Item £000 the Defence Scientific Advisory Council; [54683] (4) on what date the Defence Scientific Advisory Review Board—Chairman and Members (4) fees 43 Council was established; [54684] Travel and subsistence 18 Secretariat costs (Deloitte LLP) to support the Board’s 207 (5) what his Department’s budget for the Defence 2011 Annual Review of the Government Profit Formula Scientific Advisory Council was in the most recent year Sub-total 268 for which figures are available; and how much was Additional Secretariat costs (Deloitte LLP)—to support 666 spent on the Council under each cost category in that the Review Board consideration of the MOD contract period. [54712] referral Total 934 Mr Robathan: The Defence Scientific Advisory Council (DSAC) is an advisory non-departmental public body The additional costs of the board’s consideration of and as such it does not employ staff on its own account. the MOD contract referral were covered from within The Ministry of Defence (MOD) provides the secretariat the Director General Defence Commercial overall budget functions for the body. provision. DSAC does not incur expenditure on its own account. However, we estimate that expenditure on fees, and Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for travel and subsistence reimbursement came to about Defence (1) how many staff of his Department are £170,000 in the financial year 2010-11. However, future assigned to the Defence Nuclear Safety Committee; MOD expenditure may be incurred depending on any and how many such staff are on (a) temporary and specific scientific requirement identified. (b) permanent contracts; [54676] DSAC provides the MOD’s main source of independent (2) what the (a) purpose and (b) functions are of scientific advice on non-nuclear science, engineering the Defence Nuclear Safety Committee; [54679] technology and analysis issues. (3) on what date the Defence Nuclear Safety DSAC was established on 1 April 1969, but its Committee was established; [54680] antecedents go back to 1940 in the form of the Advisory (4) what plans his Department has for future Council on Scientific Research and Technical Development expenditure on the Defence Nuclear Safety Committee; which reported to the Minister of Supply. [54678] (5) what his Department’s budget for the Defence Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Nuclear Safety Committee was in the most recent year Defence (1) on what date the Central Advisory for which figures are available; and how much was Committee on Pensions and Compensation was spent on the Committee under each cost category in established; [54686] that period. [54714] (2) how many staff of his Department are assigned to the Central Advisory Committee on Pensions and Mr Robathan: The Defence Nuclear Safety Committee Compensation; and how many such staff are on (a) (DNSC) is an advisory non-departmental public body temporary and (b) permanent contracts; [54687] 1085W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1086W

(3) what the (a) purpose and (b) functions are of the to the nearest 10). There has been a freeze on external Central Advisory Committee on Pensions and recruitment to the MOD since May 2010, other than for Compensation; [54688] business critical posts, such as those in direct support of (4) what plans his Department has for future operations, apprenticeships, fast stream and specialist expenditure on the Central Advisory Committee on graduates and posts paid for in full by other parties (for Pensions and Compensation; [54689] example United States visiting forces and NATO support facilities). There is no central planning assumption on (5) what his Department’s budget for the Central staff vacancy rate for civil service staff in the MOD. Advisory Committee on Pensions and Compensation was in the most recent year for which figures are available; and how much was spent on the Committee Electronic Warfare under each cost category in that period. [54711] John Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Robathan: The Central Advisory Committee on Defence how much funding his Department has Pensions and Compensation was established in 1921 allocated to the prevention of cyber attacks by the under the War Pensions Act. Its purpose is to give Stuxnet computer virus. [52736] service, ex-service and voluntary organisations a forum in which they can consult with the Ministry of Defence Nick Harvey: The Department has procedural and (MOD) on pension and compensation issues. The MOD physical measures in place to protect against and mitigate provides the secretariat functions for the body at no the impact of cyber attack. We do not comment on the additional cost to the MOD. specific detail of cyber security incidents or threat assessments. Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department reviews the adequacy of its overall Defence (1) how many staff of his Department are protection on an annual basis to inform its planning engaged by the Armed Forces Pay Review Body; and round process. how many such staff are on (a) temporary and (b) permanent contracts; [54704] Ex-servicemen: Radiation (2) what plans his Department has for future expenditure on the Armed Forces Pay Review Body; Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence [54705] whether he plans to investigate the health effects of (3) what the (a) purpose and (b) functions are of nuclear test veterans’ exposure to ionising radiation on the Armed Forces Pay Review Body; [54706] their offspring. [54787] (4) on what date the Armed Forces Pay Review Body was established; [54707] Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence has placed a £75,000 contract to take forward a health needs audit of (5) what his Department’s budget for the Armed nuclear test veterans. The audit is in line with a wider Forces Pay Review Body was in the most recent year NHS commitment to improve access and support in for which figures are available; and how much was relation to the health needs of all veterans in the UK spent on the Body under each cost category in that and will gather and record the direct experience and period. [54709] views of nuclear test veterans about their health and social care needs. Veterans have had the ability to input Mr Robathan: The Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body any concerns they have had including about their children (AFPRB) was established in 1971. Its purpose is to during the study which is due to be completed in the provide independent advice to the Prime Minister and summer. the Secretary of State for Defence on the remuneration and charges for members of the Naval, Military and Air Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Forces of the Crown. The Office of Manpower Economics whether he has assessed the merits of extending the (within the Department for Business, Innovation and entitlement criteria applying to the war pension scheme Skills) provides the secretariat function. The 2011-12 to include radiation-linked diseases other than Ministry of Defence budget for AFPRB activity is leukaemia. [54788] £88,920; the main items of expenditure are AFPRB member salaries (£66,750) and the production of the Mr Robathan: Published peer reviewed medical and AFPRB Report (£8,572). The future funding for the scientific literature is routinely screened to ensure medically body for the spending review period is expected to be in sound decisions under the war pensions scheme are line for that for the current financial year. made, and where appropriate entitlement policy and practice is amended. To date this scrutiny does not Departmental Vacancies suggest any extension of entitlement criteria for nuclear test veterans is appropriate. Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the staff vacancy rate in his Department was in Foreign Relations 2010-11; and what vacancy rate has been assumed in his Department’s budget for 2011-12. [51392] Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) on what occasions (a) officials, (b) Mr Robathan: In financial year 2010-11, the Ministry Ministers and (c) military personnel in his of Defence (MOD) advertised 4,940 vacancies internally Department have met their counterparts from (i) to its own staff and 1,040 vacancies externally to other Tunisia, (ii) Libya, (iii) Kuwait and (iv) Saudi Arabia Departments and the general public (both totals rounded since January 2010; [49903] 1087W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1088W

(2) on what occasions (a) officials, (b) Ministers (7) on what occasions (a) officials, (b) Ministers and (c) military personnel in his Department have met and (c) military personnel in his Department have met their counterparts from (i) Syria, (ii) Yemen, (iii) Qatar their counterparts from (i) Iraq, (ii) Ivory Coast, (iii) and (iv) Egypt since January 2010; [49913] Liberia and (iv) Burkina Faso since January 2010. [49919] (3) on what occasions (a) officials, (b) Ministers and (c) military personnel in his Department have met Nick Harvey: Organised bilateral meetings have taken their counterparts from (i) Lebanon, (ii) Israel, (iii) place between Ministry of Defence (MOD) Ministers Nigeria and (iv) Uzbekistan since January 2010; [49914] and personnel with the countries specified in the following table, to 31 March 2011. Not all the information requested (4) on what occasions (a) officials, (b) Ministers is available centrally. and (c) military personnel in his Department have met ‘Senior visits’ refer to three and four-star officials and their counterparts from (i) Guinea, (ii) Turkey, (iii) officers other than the Chief of the Defence Staff; United Arab Emirates and (iv) Chad since January ‘working visits’ are at lower levels. The occasion of a 2010; [49916] single visit may involve several engagements with a (5) on what occasions (a) officials, (b) Ministers range of counterparts. and (c) military personnel in his Department have met This list excludes contacts by or with Defence Attachés their counterparts from (i) Burundi, (ii) Kenya, (iii) and advisers; operational deployments; permanently Sudan and (iv) Zimbabwe since January 2010; [49917] deployed training and loan service personnel; training conducted in the UK or overseas; Directorate General (6) on what occasions (a) officials, (b) Ministers Saudi Armed Forces Projects; contacts involving MOD and (c) military personnel in his Department have met personnel attached to international institutions, such as their counterparts from Bahrain since January 2008; the UN; and contacts at multilateral events such as [49918] conferences, exhibitions and seminars.

Staff talks and Other senior strategic Ministerial visits CDS visits visits Working visits dialogues

Tunisia — — — — — Libya To UK July 2010 — — Yes — Kuwait March 2010, February 2011; to UK October — — — May 2010 2010 Saudi Arabia September 2010, December 2010 — Yes — March 2010 Syria — — — — — Yemen Presidential visit to UK August 2010 — Yes — — Qatar November 2010, March 2011; state visit to UK — Yes — October 2010 October 2010 Egypt — — — — December 2010 Lebanon To UK November 2010 — Yes — — Israel February 2011; to UK March 2011 — — — March 2010 Nigeria — — — Yes — Uzbekistan — — — Yes — Afghanistan To UK January 2010 1— 1— 1—— Burma — — — — — Rwanda — February 2011 — — — Somalia — — — Yes — Guinea — — — — — Turkey February 2010, January 2011; to UK July 2010 — — Yes March 2010 UAE State visit November 2010, June 2010, —YesYes— February, April 2011; to UK October 2010 Chad — — — — — Burundi — — — — — Kenya December 2010; to UK February 2011 February 2011 Yes Yes March 2011 Sudan — — — Yes — Zimbabwe — — — — — Bahrain December 2008, December 2009, May 2010, — Yes — May 2008, November 2010, December 2010, January October 2009 2011, February 2011; to UK November 2008, November 2010 Iraq March 2010 — Yes Yes — Ivory Coast — — — — — Liberia — — — — — Burkina Faso — — — — — 1 Multiple other ministerial, senior and working visits. 1089W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1090W

HMS Albion Nuclear Submarines

Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence when he plans to place HMS Albion into Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) when research and development work for extended readiness. [54993] the PWR2b type reactor was initiated; [54669] Nick Harvey: On current plans HMS Albion will (2) what studies have been carried out into the use of begin her period of extended readiness in late 2011, at the PWR2b type reactor for later submarines in the which point HMS Bulwark will become the high readiness Astute class; and when such studies were initiated; landing platform dock. [54670] Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) on what date the safety of UK nuclear Defence what contribution (a) HMS Albion and (b) submarines was first benchmarked against (a) relevant HMS Ocean has made to the Royal Navy’s Response civil nuclear practice and (b) US Navy practice; Group Task Force; and if he will make a statement. [54671] [54994] (4) what assessment the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator has made of the capability of a PWR2b Nick Harvey: The Royal Navy’s Response Force Task plant for the Trident replacement submarines to deliver Group is a new initiative announced in last year’s emergency core cooling through direct head injection Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) and in dealing with a loss of coolant accident; [54708] Cougar 11 is its first deployment. HMS Albion and (5) what assessment the Defence Nuclear Safety HMS Ocean as with all other units on this deployment Regulator has made of the capacity of a PWR2b plant have been developing, through force generation and to demonstrate relevant good practice in responding to collective training, contingent capability in their respective a loss of coolant accident; [54672] roles as the landing platform dock and landing platform helicopter. (6) whether the ability of the PWR2b and PWR3 plants to deal with a loss of coolant accident has yet HMS Liverpool been reviewed sufficiently to satisfy a decision for the initial gate business case; [54673] Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for (7) whether a formal presentation of (a) the safety Defence what decommissioning date he has set for analysis and arguments for a PWR2b plant and (b) the HMS Liverpool. [54991] associated cost and schedule risk have yet been made to Nick Harvey: On current plans, HMS Liverpool will the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator; [54674] be withdrawn from service in 2012. (8) if he will publish the analysis of the (a) PWR2b and (b) PWR3 design concepts for the Trident Navy: Olympic Games 2012 replacement submarines as part of the initial gate business case; [54716] Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has for Royal Navy vessels to be (9) what assessment he has made in the reduction of used to provide office and control centre risk with regard to (a) control of submarine depth and (b) accommodation for the London 2012 Olympics. [53969] a loss of coolant accident from a (i) PWR2b and (ii) PWR3 propulsion system for the Trident Nick Harvey: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) is replacement submarine. [54717] working with the Home Office, police and other Government Departments to identify what support the Nick Harvey [holding answer 9 May 2011]: The military may provide to the 2012 Olympics. The MOD Ministry of Defence has maintained a continuous research is currently considering requests and planning is ongoing; and technology development programme that delivers no decisions have yet been made regarding the use of improvements to safety, as well as other aspects of Royal Navy vessels. reactor plant performance, for nuclear submarines that are currently being operated or built for the Royal Navy, Navy: Training as well as enabling the design of future nuclear reactor plants. Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the results of Regular detailed scrutiny of submarine reactor plant the Naval Review of Training; and if he will make a safety is conducted by expert personnel from within the statement. [54761] Ministry of Defence, including the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator and the Health and Safety Executive’s Nick Harvey [holding answer 9 May 2011]: As part Office of Nuclear Regulation and by independent nuclear of the continued drive to deliver more effective and safety assessors to ensure safety is benchmarked against efficient training, the Navy Board has endorsed a new national and internationally accepted standards. training regime: Initial Naval Training (INT). The INT For reasons of security, I do not intend to go into is a common package of core naval training but with further detail about specific aspects of nuclear submarine separate officer and rating classes to enhance levels of reactor plant design, or what specific assessments have, individual capability and to meet the needs of the or will be undertaken for future reactor plant designs. modern, adaptable Navy. However, all such considerations are subject to a rigorous The first 10-week INT course for ratings will commence assessment against principles that are consistent with on 8 May 2011, with the officers’ INT course beginning those applied across all UK nuclear reactor programmes, in January 2012. of which safety is a paramount consideration. These 1091W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1092W principles are embodied within the Health and Safety Office for Budget Responsibility and all other credible Executive’s Safety Assessment Principles, which were forecasters, including NIESR whose forecast was released adopted by the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator during just last week, are very clear that the UK recovery will 2007-08. continue.

Warships Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of changes in Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for the outlook for economic growth since May 2010. Defence what the composition of the Cougar [54743] deployment is; and what its mission is. [54758] Nick Harvey [holding answer 9 May 2011]: Cougar is Mr Gauke: The Government’s economic policy objective the 2011 deployment of the Response Force Task Group is to achieve strong, sustainable and balanced growth (RFTG) and is composed of HMS Albion, HMS Ocean, that is more evenly shared across the country and HMS Liverpool, HMS Sutherland, RFA Wave Knight, between industries. The economic forecasts published RFA Cardigan Bay, RFA Fort Rosalie and RFA Mounts at Budget by the independent Office for Budget Bay, together with embarked Royal Marine commandos Responsibility (OBR) take full account of the policy and air assets comprising of five Lynx, seven Sea King measures announced in both the spending review and and three Apache. the Budget published in March of this year. The OBR This long planned exercise will develop the RFTG forecasts the economy to grow throughout 2011 and in through force generation and collective training, to every year of the forecast. demonstrate contingent capability and to develop relationships with regional partners in support of Defence Mr Love: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer objectives. what assessment he has made of trends in the level of economic growth in the last two quarters. [54731]

Justine Greening: The economy has returned to growth. TREASURY Manufacturing is growing strongly, the economy has Double-dip Recession created thousands of jobs and borrowing is down. The independent Office for Budget Responsibility and other 15. Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Chancellor of the credible forecasters, including NIESR whose forecast Exchequer what his most recent assessment is of the was released just last week, are very clear that the UK likelihood of a double-dip recession. [54736] recovery will continue.

Danny Alexander: The UK returned to positive growth EU Budget 2012 in the first quarter of this year. The Government have always said the recovery will be choppy. The independent Office for Budget Responsibility and all other credible 17. Bob Stewart: To ask the Chancellor of the forecasters, including the NIESR who released forecasts Exchequer what assessment he has made of the just last week, are very clear that the UK recovery will European Commission’s proposals for the EU budget continue. for 2012. [54738] Economic Growth Justine Greening: The Government have been clear that a 4.9% increase in EU spending in 2012, proposed 16. Margaret Curran: To ask the Chancellor of the by the Commission, is unacceptable. The letter signed Exchequer what assessment he has made of changes in by the UK, France, Germany, Finland and the Netherlands the outlook for economic growth since the assessment in December last year clearly states that growth in EU made as part of the comprehensive spending review. spending in 2012 must be curbed. The Government will [54737] work with other member states to deliver the best possible outcome for UK taxpayers in future negotiations. Mr Gauke: The Government’s economic policy objective is to achieve strong, sustainable and balanced growth that is more evenly shared across the country and Working Tax Credit between industries. The economic forecasts published at Budget by the independent Office for Budget 18. Nick Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Responsibility (OBR) take full account of the policy Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number of measures announced in both the spending review and families who earn less than £30,000 a year who will the Budget published in March of this year. The OBR have their income reduced as a result of changes to the forecasts the economy to grow throughout 2011 and in working tax credit. [54739] every year of the forecast. Justine Greening: Given the interaction of tax credit 19. Ian Murray: To ask the Chancellor of the measures with other benefits, it is the overall impact of Exchequer what assessment he has made of trends in measures that is important for a household. the level of economic growth in the last two quarters. [54741] At Budget 2011 the Government published detailed distributional analysis of the impacts of its decisions. Mr Gauke: Manufacturing is growing strongly, the Looking at the cumulative impact of tax, tax credit and economy has created thousands of jobs since the turn benefit reforms introduced at the last Budget and previous of the year and borrowing is down. The independent fiscal events, the top decile sees the largest losses. 1093W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1094W

This is the case across the income distribution, in Stephen Hammond: To ask the Chancellor of the both cash terms (Chart A.2) and as a proportion of net Exchequer how many claimants of child benefit in income (Chart A.3). It is also the case across the expenditure England are in receipt of that benefit in respect of (a) distribution, in cash terms (Chart A.4) and as a proportion two, (b) three and (c) more than three children. of expenditure (Chart A.5). [54496] Child Poverty Mr Gauke: The following table shows the information requested: 22. Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what discussions he has had with the OECD on the Households in receipt of child effects of his Department’s fiscal policies on levels of benefit in England child poverty. [54744] One child 3,051,980 Justine Greening: The Minister for Employment attended Two children 2,473,415 the OECD Social Policy ministerial meeting on 2 May Three children 761,550 where child poverty was discussed. Four or more children 275,765 The 2011 Budget confirmed that the Government’s Total 6,562,705 modelled tax and welfare reforms could reduce relative Note: The figures have been independently rounded to the nearest five. This child poverty by up to 50,000 over the next two years. can lead to components not summing to totals as shown. However, poverty is about more than just income. The latest information on the number of families The reforms announced by this Government are about receiving child benefit, by each parliamentary constituency, tackling the causes of poverty and will increase fairness local authority and region is available in the HMRC and improve work incentives. snapshot publication ‘Child Benefit Statistics Geographical Analysis. August 2010’. This can be found at: Public Sector Borrowing Requirement http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/child_benefit/chb-geog- 23. Claire Perry: To ask the Chancellor of the aug10.pdf Exchequer what recent estimate he has made of the size Departmental Pensions of the public sector borrowing requirement. [54745] Steve Baker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Justine Greening: The Public Sector Finances first what proportion of his Department’s budget he expects release published by the Office for National Statistics to be spent on staff pensions in each of the next five estimates that the first provisional outturn for public years. [54563] sector net borrowing in 2010-11 is £141.1 billion or 9.6% of GDP, this is £15 billion lower than 2009-10. Justine Greening: The Department does not publish In March 2011 the independent Office for Budget forecasts of pay-related spending for future years. Responsibility forecast public sector net borrowing to 2015-16. This forecast is available at: Members: Correspondence http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/economic- and-fiscal-outlook-march-2011 Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he plans to reply to the letter of Bank Lending 14 March 2011 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Ms J. Lambert. Tom Brake: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer [54821] what recent assessment he has made of trends in levels of bank lending to small businesses. [54742] Justine Greening: I wrote to all Members on 4 April 2011 to set out the Government’s position on fuel duty Mr Hoban: Overall repayment of debt by small businesses and motoring following the Budget in order to respond is running ahead of lending to the same sector. As a to correspondence that hon. Members have raised on consequence, net lending fell in the first quarter of this that topic. year. However, the availability of credit to business in the same period increased. Renewable Energy: Finance Child Benefit Dr Whitehead: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he proposes to include the energy Stephen Hammond: To ask the Chancellor of the companies obligation in the cap on the impact of Exchequer how many claimants there are of child levy-funded support on energy bills described in benefit in (a) the UK and (b) England. [54495] paragraph 2.159 of The Plan for Growth. [54233] Mr Gauke: At August 2010 there were 7,841,675 Justine Greening: The new control framework for households in the UK that receive child benefit, of DECC levy-funded spending covers DECC’s policies which 6,562,705 were in England. that entail levy-funded spending and that are classified The latest information on the number of families by the Office of National Statistics as tax and spend for receiving child benefit, by each parliamentary constituency, National Accounts purposes. local authority and region is available in the HMRC If other DECC policies are classified by the Office of snapshot publication ‘Child Benefit Statistics Geographical National Statistics as tax and spend and yet are deficit Analysis. August 2010’. This can be found at: neutral then they will fall within the control framework. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/child_benefit/chb-geog- The energy company obligation will be included if it is aug10.pdf classified as such. 1095W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1096W

Taxation: Environment Protection Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what representations he Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Chancellor of the has received on the (a) augan biogas recovery from Exchequer what definition of a green tax his palm oil mill effluent ponds and biogas utilisation and Department uses. [54480] (b) lean biogas recovery from palm oil mill effluent ponds and biogas/biomass utilisation project under the Justine Greening: The Government are currently Clean Development Mechanism; and if he will make a reviewing what taxes are classified as environmental. statement. [53968] Once this work concludes a statement will be placed in the House Library. Gregory Barker: The allegations of human rights abuses in connection with these two projects were first Whisky: Scotland brought to the attention of the Secretary of State on 4 February 2011, when a letter of protest was received Lindsay Roy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer from a coalition of NGOs led by Biofuelwatch. This what recent estimate he has made of the monetary was followed in early April by a mass e-mail campaign. value to the UK economy of overseas sales in the The allegations are plainly deplorable. Consequently whisky industry in Scotland. [53039] the Secretary of State wrote to number of relevant organisations and responsible bodies, expressing his Mr Prisk: I have been asked to reply. concern and requesting further information. These According to Overseas Trade Statistics data published organisations included the Honduran authorities, the by HM Revenue and Customs, UK exports of whisky CDM Executive Board and the UK authorised project (SITC 11241) totalled £3,520 million in 2010. Of this, participant, EDF Trading Ltd. The Secretary of State about £72 million was not Scotch. also asked the Executive Board to assess whether the project meets CDM rules and to deal with the human rights allegations in so far as they are able. EDF Trading Ltd has recently announced that it is ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE terminating its involvement in the two projects. Of the Biofuels two projects EDF had received only a UK Letter of Authorisation (LoA) for one: the Aguan Biogas Recovery Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Project. Since the UK LoA was valid for use only by Energy and Climate Change what assessment he made EDF, the termination of their involvement in the project of the implications for human rights of the Clean effectively renders the letter defunct. Development Mechanism projects (a) aguan biogas Energy Supply recovery from palm oil mill effluent ponds and biogas utilisation and (b) lean biogas recovery from palm oil Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for mill effluent ponds and biogas/biomass utilisation Energy and Climate Change how many instances his prior to authorising the purchase of credits from each Department and its predecessors have recorded of project. [53967] transfers between energy suppliers made in error and without the customer’s consent in each of the last five Gregory Barker: My right hon. Friend the Secretary years. [54626] of State is aware of the allegations in respect of these projects and has written to the CDM Executive Board Charles Hendry: DECC does not hold the information to request a robust investigation. Of the two projects requested. To meet its principal duty to protect the mentioned in recent representations by Biofuelswatch, interests of consumers, Ofgem collects data on a range the UK Government have issued only a Letter of of issues, including erroneous transfers. Whilst Ofgem Authorisation (LoA) in respect of the participation of does not publish this data it has statutory powers to EDF Trading Ltd in the Aguan Biogas Recovery project take action to address market issues where it feels such (CDM reference number 3197). The Lean Biogas Recovery action is required. project was not authorised by the UK. Erroneous transfers of energy supplies most commonly When assessing the Aguan project the standard occur because of administrative or data error on the procedures for dealing with applications seeking UK part of the supplier. Since 2009, the big six suppliers authorisation of companies participation in CDM projects have operated the “Peace of Mind Guarantee”, which were followed. These require the applicant to submit sets out the process customers who have been affected documentation including a letter of approval from the by an erroneous transfer can expect to rectify the error. Honduran Government stating that the project contributes The Guarantee was designed to ensure mistakes are to sustainable development alongside a declaration that corrected quickly and with as little inconvenience to the all documentation is correct. On the basis of these consumer as possible. assurances, a letter of authorisation was issued to EDF Trading Ltd based on these assurances on 3 June 2009, Industrial Diseases: Compensation prior to the events recounted in the allegations. We understand that EDF energy has since withdrawn from Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for participation in the project. Energy and Climate Change (1) how much has been The final assessment of whether any CDM project is paid to each individual law firm from the Coal Health compliant with CDM rules lies with the CDM Executive Compensation scheme in respect of cases of (a) Board, which is currently reviewing the status of the vibration white finger and (b) chronic obstructive Aguan project. pulmonary disorder to date; [54933] 1097W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1098W

(2) how much has been paid to each individual law Number firm under the Coal Health Compensation scheme in Claims Claims respect of claims for cases of (a) vibration white finger received settled Total Total Compensation and (b) chronic obstructive pulmonary disease from North North claims claims claims each constituency to date; [54935] Durham Durham received settled outstanding (3) how many claims for compensation for (a) COPD 6,587 6,587 591,768 591,738 130 vibration white finger and (b) chronic obstructive VWF 642 642 169,611 2169,611 0 pulmonary disease under the Coal Health Total 7,229 7,229 761,379 761,349 30 Compensation scheme have been received from each 1 For the COPD scheme, there are only three claimants awaiting an offer or denial. law firm to date. [54937] 2 All scheme VWF compensation claims have been settled. There are two claims of which solicitors costs are yet to be paid. Charles Hendry: Tables showing the number of claims Oil: Refineries received and costs paid as at December 2010 to claimants’ solicitors handling claims under the Coal Health Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for Compensation schemes for vibration white finger (VWF) Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has and for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) made of the likely effects of the measures contained in will be made available in the Libraries of the House, Budget 2011 on the UK downstream oil industry, which provides breakdown by legal firm and the total including refining. [54001] amount paid to each firm. We do not have the costs for individual law firms Charles Hendry: HM Treasury is responsible for broken down by parliamentary constituency. Budgetary policy and has confirmed that its sectoral analysis did not suggest a significant impact. DECC has not made a separate detailed assessment but our Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for work suggests that the economics of oil refining should Energy and Climate Change how much compensation not be affected by taxation changes on North sea oil has been awarded under the Coal Health production. Businesses, including the downstream oil Compensation scheme for cases of (a) vibration white industry, have been supported by the 2% reduction in finger and (b) chronic obstructive pulmonary disease Corporation Tax this April. to recipients in each constituency to date. [54934] Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs

Charles Hendry: The amount of compensation awarded Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State as at April 2011 under the Coal Health Compensation for Energy and Climate Change what the evidential schemes for vibration white finger (VWF) and chronic basis was for the decision to cap expenditure on the obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) is shown in the feed-in tariff scheme as part of the comprehensive tables which will be placed in the Libraries of the spending review; and for what reason the decision was House. taken. [52932] Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (1) how many claims for Feed-in tariffs entail levy-funded spending and are vibration white finger under the Coal Health classified by the Office of National Statistics as tax and Compensation Scheme received (a) from North spend for National Accounts purposes. They add to Durham constituency and (b) nationally have been total tax and spending levels and impose costs on household and business energy bills. It is therefore processed to date; [54938] important that these impacts are controlled. (2) how many claims under the Coal Health Compensation Scheme for vibration white finger (a) received from North Durham constituency and (b) HOME DEPARTMENT nationally are outstanding; [54936] Antisocial Behaviour (3) how many claims under the Coal Health Compensation Scheme for chronic obstructive Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for the pulmonary disease received (a) from North Durham Home Department what recent representations she has constituency and (b) nationally are outstanding; received on levels of antisocial behaviour; and if she [54939] will make a statement. [54763] (4) how many claims under the Coal Health Compensation Scheme for chronic obstructive James Brokenshire: The Home Office receives numerous pulmonary disease received (a) from North Durham representations from members of the public who are constituency and (b) nationally have been processed to concerned about the levels of antisocial behaviour in their area. That is why, on 7 February, we published the date. [54940] consultation document ‘More effective responses to antisocial behaviour’. It sets out the Government’s proposals Charles Hendry: The following table shows the number to streamline and improve the toolkit available to the of scheme claims received and processed for North police and their local partners to deal with antisocial Durham and nationally for vibration white finger (VWF) behaviour, as a key part of wider reforms that will make and for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) agencies more accountable to the public for the way as at April 2011. There are no outstanding claims for they respond to local crime and policing priorities. The North Durham. consultation runs until 17 May. 1099W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1100W

Asylum Agency staff on how to respond to enquiries by claimants on the conclusion of their claims. [53697] Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what the cost to the public purse Damian Green [holding answer 3 May 2011]: The was of (a) providing accommodation and support to UK Border Agency provides regular updates on asylum seekers, (b) processing asylum applications and performance of the “legacy”cases, including a breakdown (c) deporting unsuccessful asylum seekers in each of into grants, removals and “other” cases such as duplicates the last three years. [53143] or errors, to the Home Affairs Select Committee. On 2 March, the Agency reported to the Home Damian Green: The cost of providing accommodation Affairs Select Committee that it had concluded over and support to asylum seekers in each of the last three 403,000 cases as at 31 January 2011. years is given in the following table. It is not possible to The UK Border Agency has completed its review of provide the cost of processing asylum applications without all the outstanding “legacy” cases. A small unit has incurring disproportionate cost. been set up in the North West region. This will continue It is also not possible to provide the cost of deporting concluding those cases that have been reviewed but not asylum seekers as the UK Border Agency does not concluded. They will also monitor the controlled archive record these costs separately. The National Audit Office and take forward any cases that should come to light. report ‘Management of Asylum Applications by the Claimants have details of the case team dealing with UK Border Agency’, published on 23 January 2009 and their application. To improve the service that the UK available to view at: Border Agency provides whilst minimising the impact http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/0809/ of calls on productivity, claimants can contact the case management_of_asylum_appl.aspx team in writing or via a dedicated e-mail inbox with provides a range of upper- and lower-end cost estimates enquiries relating to their claims. for people who are detained or removed in different circumstances (for example, for a single undetained Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for adult who is removed after exhausting his/her appeal the Home Department how many people (a) applied rights, the process will cost between £7,900 and £17,000 for asylum, (b) were granted asylum on initial excluding accommodation and support costs, and between decision, (c) were granted exceptional leave to remain £12,000 and £25,600 including accommodation and on initial decision, (d) were granted humanitarian support costs). A copy of this report is available in the protection on initial decision, (e) were granted House Library. discretionary leave to remain on initial decision, (f) Cost of accommodation and support for asylum-seekers were refused either asylum, exceptional leave to remain, 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 humanitarian protection or discretionary leave to remain on initial decision, (g) appealed their initial Initial accommodation 19.0 14.9 8.5 decision, (h) were granted asylum on appeal, (i) were Dispersed 127.8 123.0 99.7 granted some form of protection after appeal, (j) were accommodation refused asylum or other protection after appeal, (k) Section 4 support 90.8 101.9 55.7 were the subject of enforced removals, (l) were the Cash support 69.0 68.1 55.6 subject of notified voluntary departures, (m) were the Unaccompanied Asylum- 142.1 150.7 114.9 Seeking children subject of assisted voluntary returns and (n) were One-Stop Service — 10.1 10.2 former asylum seekers who it is established have left the Wraparound — — 4.1 UK without informing the immigration authorities in Total 448.7 468.7 348.7 each year from 1997 to 2010. [54493] Note: The figures for 2010-11 are unaudited and are subject to possible adjustment. Figures-for 2008-09 and 2009-10 are taken from the audited accounts of the Damian Green [holding answer 9 May 2011]: The UK Border Agency. number of people who applied for asylum, were granted asylum on initial decision, were granted exceptional Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for the leave to remain on initial decision, were granted Home Department pursuant to the answer of 1 March humanitarian protection on initial decision, were granted 2011, Official Report, column 312W, on asylum, in discretionary leave to remain on initial decision, were which month of 2011 the UK Border Agency expects refused asylum, exceptional leave to remain, humanitarian to conclude the backlog of legacy asylum claims; and protection or discretionary leave to remain on initial what instructions have been issued to UK Border decision—(a) to (f)—is provided in the following table:

Applications received for asylum in the United Kingdom, excluding dependants, and initial decisions1, 2 1997 to 2010 Number of principal applicants Initial decisions Cases considered under normal procedures Total initial decisions Refusals Not recognised as Not recognised as a refugee but a refugee but Not recognised as Recognised as a granted granted a refugee but refugee and exceptional leave humanitarian granted Total applications granted asylum to remain protection discretionary leave Total refused

1997 32,500 36,045 3,985 3,115 n/a n/a 28,945 1101W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1102W

Applications received for asylum in the United Kingdom, excluding dependants, and initial decisions1, 2 1997 to 2010 Number of principal applicants Initial decisions Cases considered under normal procedures Total initial decisions Refusals Not recognised as Not recognised as a refugee but a refugee but Not recognised as Recognised as a granted granted a refugee but refugee and exceptional leave humanitarian granted Total applications granted asylum to remain protection discretionary leave Total refused

199S 46,015 31,570 5,345 3,910 n/a n/a 22,315 1999 71,160 33,720 7,815 2,465 n/a n/a 11,025 2000 80,315 109,205 10,375 11,495 n/a n/a 75,680 2001 71,025 120,950 11,450 20,190 n/a n/a 89,310 2002 84,130 83,540 8,270 20,135 n/a n/a 55,130 2003 49,405 64,940 3,865 3,975 140 3,095 53,865 2004 33,960 46,020 1,565 n/a 160 3,835 40,465 2005 25,710 27,395 1,940 n/a 120 2,675 22,655 2005 23,610 20,930 2,170 n/a 55 2,245 16,460 2007 23,430 21,775 3,545 n/a 125 2,075 16,030 2008 25,930 19,400 3,725 n/a 95 2,075 13,505 20093 24,485 24,285 4,190 n/a 95 2,460 17,545 20103 17,790 20,645 3,480 n/a 90 1,620 15,455 n/a = not applicable 1 Figures (other than percentages) rounded to the nearest five ( * = one or two). Figures may not sum to the totals shown because of independent rounding. 2 Initial decisions do not necessarily relate to applications made in the same period and exclude the outcome of appeals or other subsequent decisions. 3 Provisional figures.

The number of people who appealed their decision, other form of protection at appeal is unavailable and were allowed at appeal, were dismissed at appeal—(g) would be available only on examination of individual to (j)—is provided in the following table. Information records at disproportionate costs. on whether the applicant was granted asylum or some

Asylum appeals received and determined at the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal/First-tier Tribunal of the Immigration and Asylum Chamber1, 2, excluding dependants, 1997 to 2010 Number principal applicants Appeals determined3 Appeals by the Appeals received by Home Office4 the IAA/AIT5 Total determined5 Total allowed9 Total dismissed9 Total withdrawn6,9

1997 20,950 22,385 21,090 1,180 18,145 1,720 1998 14,320 15,440 25,320 2,355 21,195 1,770 1999 6,615 7,775 19,460 5,280 11,135 3,050 2000 46,190 28,935 19,395 3,340 15,580 475 2001 74,365 47,905 43,415 8,155 34,440 825 2002 51,695 64,125 64,405 13,875 48,845 1,685 2003 46,130 70,575 81,725 16,070 63,810 1,845 2004 35,110 47,000 55,975 10,845 43,760 1,370 2005 4,935 24,835 33,440 5,605 26,555 1,285 2006 n/a 14,920 15,955 3,540 11,595 820 2007 n/a 14,060 14,945 3,385 10,735 825 2008 n/a 10,660 10,720 2,475 7,585 650 20097 n/a 15,420 14,610 4,150 9,675 780 20107,8 n/a 16,170 17,930 4,835 12,090 1,010 n/a = not applicable 1 Figures (other than percentages) rounded to the nearest five (— = 0; * = one or two) and may not sum to the totals shown because of independent rounding. 2 The Tribunals Service Immigration and Asylum (TSIA), consisting of the First-tier Tribunal and Upper Tribunal of the Immigration and Asylum Chamber (FTTIAC and UTIAC) replaced the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (AIT) on 15 February 2010. All figures for appeals determined are cases dealt with by immigration judges at the AIT or FTTIAC. 3 All figures for appeals determined are cases dean with by adjudicators/judges at the IAA or AIT. 4 Data for 2000 are based on manual counts of data received in the Appeals Support Section of the Home Office. Some cases were received elsewhere in the Home Office before being forwarded to ASS and so may be counted at a later date than when they arrived in the Home Office. Figures for 1997 to March 2005 are basedon Immigration and Nationality Directorate electronic sources. From April 2005 appeals are lodged directly with the AIT. 5 Based on information supplied by the Ministry of Justice. ‘Appeals received’ data include some cases lodged at the Home Office and transferred to the AIT/FTTIAC. The data also include a small number of cases initially flagged as being potentially invalid or out of time for which the papers were examined by an immigration judge and determined to be valid and/or in-time. These cases then proceed through the appeal system. 6 Figures include cases withdrawn by the Home Office, as well as those withdrawn by the appellant. 7 Provisional figures. 8 Provisional management information supplied by the Ministry of Justice. 9 Estimated figures (to March 2005). Sources: Prior to April 2005: Presenting Officers Unit, Home Office; from April 2005: Ministry of Justice, Determinations do not necessarily relate to appealsreceivedinthe same period. 1103W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1104W

The number of removals and voluntary departures Recorded crime and court proceedings statistics are from the UK of principal asylum applicants, broken recorded in quite different ways. Recorded crime data is down by type of departure—(k) to (n)—is provided in provided on a financial year basis and counts offences the following table. It is not possible to provide the whereas court proceedings data are on a calendar year exact split requested; in line with published statistics, basis and count offenders. Therefore, these two separate ‘enforced removals’ and ‘notified voluntary departures’ data-sets are not directly comparable. have been grouped together. Offences of bigamy recorded by the police and detected by means of a sanction 1 Removals and voluntary departures1,2 of principal asylum cases, by type, 1997 to detection —2007-08 to 2009-10 2010 Percentage Number of departures3 detected by Number of means of a Enforced Number of sanction sanction removals Total offences detections detection and notified Assisted Other principal voluntary voluntary voluntary asylum 2007-08 74 33 45 departures4,5 returns6 departures7 cases 2008-09 64 40 63 1997 7,165 n/a n/a 7,165 2009-10 60 39 65 1998 6,990 n/a n/a 6,990 1 Detection rates are a ratio of crimes detected in a period to crimes recorded in 1999 7,615 50 n/a 7,665 a period. They are not based on tracking whether individual crimes recorded in a period have eventually been detected. 2000 8,430 550 n/a 8,980 2001 8,305 980 n/a 9,285 Crime 2002 9,845 895 n/a 10,740 2003 11,250 1,755 n/a 13,005 2004 10,300 2,300 n/a 12,595 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2005 10,355 2,905 465 13,730 Home Department what the crime detection rate in (a) 2006 10,330 4,630 1,370 16,330 each police force and (b) England and Wales was in 2007 8,140 2,540 2,025 12,705 each year since 2007-08. [53397] 2008 7,290 2,455 2,300 12,040 20098 6,420 2,830 1,685 10,935 Nick Herbert: The information requested is given in 20108 6,120 2,480 770 9,375 the table. n/a = not applicable Detection rates are a ratio of crimes detected in a 1 Figures are rounded to the nearest five and may not sum to the totals shown period to crimes recorded in a period. They are not because of independent rounding. 2 Figures exclude dependants. based on tracking whether individual crimes recorded 3 Removals and voluntary departures recorded on the system as at the dates on in a period have eventually been detected. which the data extracts were taken. 4 Due to a reclassification of removal categories, figures include asylum removals From 1 April 2007 the rules governing recording of which have been performed by enforcement officers using port powers of non-sanction detections were revised to reduce the scope removal and a small number of cases dealt with at juxtaposed controls. within which they can be claimed to a very small limited 5 Since October 2006, figures include persons leaving under facilitated return schemes. set of circumstances. This has significantly reduced the 6 Since January 1999, persons leaving under assisted voluntary return programmes number of non-sanction detections which has been run by the International Organization for Migration. May include some cases reflected in the overall detection rates. leaving under the Assisted Voluntary Return for Irregular Migrants Programme (since December 2004) and some cases where enforcement action had been Detection rate for all offences recorded by the police in England and Wales1 initiated. Percentage detected 7 Since January 2005, persons who it has been established left the UK without informing the immigration authorities. Police force area 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 8 Provisional figures. Figures will under record due to data cleansing and data matching exercises that take place after the extracts are taken. Avon and 25 27 29 Further information on asylum is available from the Somerset Control of Immigration publications available in the Bedfordshire 22 26 26 British 27 32 35 Library of the House and the Home Office Science Transport Police website at: Cambridgeshire 27 25 27 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/research- Cheshire 26 29 25 statistics Cleveland 33 38 40 Cumbria 38 40 41 Bigamy Derbyshire 29 27 23 Devon and 28 30 30 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Cornwall Home Department how many offences of bigamy were Dorset 27 25 24 recorded in each year since 2007; and what proportion Durham 29 30 33 of such offences resulted in (a) court proceedings Dyfed-Powys 42 44 48 against suspected perpetrators, (b) convictions and (c) Essex 32 35 34 Gloucestershire 32 31 30 sanction detections. [53442] Greater 25 25 25 Manchester Nick Herbert: The information is not available in the Gwent 30 30 26 form requested. Hampshire 27 25 27 Figures for the number of offences of bigamy recorded Hertfordshire 30 33 35 by the police and the number detected by means of a Humberside 31 30 28 sanction detection are given in the table. Statistics on Kent 27 32 33 court proceedings, including convictions, are a matter Lancashire 35 34 35 for the Ministry of Justice. Leicestershire 27 24 23 1105W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1106W

Detection rate for all offences recorded by the police in England and Wales1 Rate of total recorded crime per 1,000 population, by police force area Percentage detected Rate per 1,000 population Police force area 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Police force area 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Lincolnshire 28 27 24 London, City of 1— 1— 1— London, City of 36 36 36 Merseyside 94 87 80 Merseyside 32 36 39 Metropolitan 114 111 108 Metropolitan 25 26 24 Police Police Norfolk 67 59 53 Norfolk 32 38 37 Northamptonshire 96 89 81 Northamptonshire 25 24 24 Northumbria 78 75 64 Northumbria 38 39 40 North Wales 68 68 66 North Wales 40 43 43 North Yorkshire 64 62 54 North Yorkshire 33 31 31 Nottinghamshire 118 108 92 Nottinghamshire 23 23 26 South Wales 101 95 83 South Wales 26 28 30 South Yorkshire 113 100 86 South Yorkshire 27 29 31 Staffordshire 84 80 71 Staffordshire 28 23 23 Suffolk 69 66 65 Suffolk 30 34 30 Surrey646058 Surrey272221Sussex787065 Sussex 32 26 29 Thames Valley 91 90 84 Thames Valley 25 24 20 Warwickshire 76 71 63 Warwickshire 26 25 24 West Mercia 68 66 60 West Mercia 29 30 27 West Midlands 95 87 81 West Midlands 27 29 24 West Yorkshire 105 99 90 West Yorkshire 24 26 27 Wiltshire 70 65 59 Wiltshire 27 31 30 England and 91 86 79 England and 28 28 28 Wales Wales 1 Not applicable. 1 Detection rates are a ratio of crimes detected in a period to crimes recorded in a period. They are not based on tracking whether individual crimes Cycling: Fines recorded in a period have eventually been detected. Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many fixed penalties were Home Department how many crimes were committed issued to cyclists for the offence of (a) carrying per head of population in each police force area in each another person and (b) cycling on pavements in each year since 2007-08. [53407] police force area in each of the last three years; how many of the penalties were issued to cyclists aged over Nick Herbert: The available information relates to 14 years; and how many on-the-spot fines for cycling the number of offences recorded by the police per 1,000 on the pavement were issued by each police force in population and is given in the following table. each such year. [53448] Rate of total recorded crime per 1,000 population, by police force area Rate per 1,000 population James Brokenshire: The information requested is not Police force area 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 collected centrally.

Avon and 93 87 79 Somerset Departmental Consultants Bedfordshire 88 77 70 Cambridgeshire 87 85 78 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Cheshire 79 75 67 Home Department how much her Department has Cleveland 120 99 85 paid to external consultants for the implementation Cumbria 71 62 57 and management of the activity-based costing scheme Derbyshire 78 74 68 for police forces in each financial year since 2004-05. Devon and 68 62 56 [53481] Cornwall Dorset737168Nick Herbert: The information requested is not held Durham 80 75 67 centrally and could be obtained only at a disproportionate Dyfed-Powys 51 48 44 cost. Essex726761 Gloucestershire 79 76 65 Departmental Contracts Greater 117 110 96 Manchester Gwent 87 88 91 Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Hampshire 90 87 77 Home Department how many contracts her Hertfordshire 76 71 65 Department holds with Serco; and what the (a) Humberside 107 99 88 purpose and (b) monetary value is of each contract. Kent 81 74 64 [53136] Lancashire 85 81 74 Leicestershire 91 89 83 Damian Green: The Home Office holds five major Lincolnshire 75 72 67 contracts with Serco. 1107W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1108W

Opportunities for work experience placements are £ million quite limited but do arise occasionally. These placements End date Contract value are designed to help Year 10 or 11 students become Provision of RN Detection at 17 March 135 familiar with work in general and are limited to one or UK borders two weeks. Students in year 10 or 11 interested in a Colnbrook Immigration 14 August 188 placement in the Home Office, will need to identify a Removal Centre specific area of interest and contact that area direct. For Yarl’s Wood Immigration 15 April 99 Removal Centre further information on the various areas within the Confidential IT Network 14 June 28 Home Office please refer to our website at: National Border Targeting 12 October 42 www.homeoffice.gov.uk Centre and data centres Alternatively, please look at the following website: Departmental Legal Costs http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/index.aspx where further information can be found on other Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for the Government Departments and the civil service. Home Department how much her Department paid in There is no centrally run scheme for those seeking to (a) damages, (b) claimant costs and (c) defendant volunteer to work at the Home Office. Potential volunteers costs in respect of all civil claims brought against her will need to identify an area of interest and contact that Department in which the claimant was successful or area direct to see if any volunteering opportunities are the Department settled in each of the last three years. available. [54632] Deportation: Immigration Damian Green: The Home Office and its agencies do not hold the payment information in the required detail. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the The payments mentioned are included within special Home Department in how many cases the Minister for payments, further details of which, for 2009-10, can be Immigration has exercised his discretion in a found in note 30(b) of the Home Office’s Resource deportation case in the last year for which figures are Accounts 2009-10 (HC193) and for 2008-09 in note available. [52683] 33(b) of the Home Office’s Resource Accounts 2008-09 (HC466). Damian Green: As the Minister for Immigration I have not intervened or exercised my discretion on any Figures for 2010-11 will be provided in the Home deportation cases in the last year. Office’s 2010-11 Resource Accounts, to be published in July this year. Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal Departmental Meetings Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what advice her Department has Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the issued on the implications for public security of the Home Department what the outcomes were of the provision of litter bins at (a) railway stations and (b) meeting of 17 March 2011 in her Department which other public places. [53477] was attended by 37 suppliers to her Department, the Minister for the Cabinet Office, the Minister of State Nick Herbert: The Government’s Centre for the for Policing and Criminal Justice and Nick Gargan. Protection of National Infrastructure (CPNI) and the [50629] police National Counter-Terrorism Security Office (NaCTSO) provide advice on protective security measures Nick Herbert: Following the event held on 17 March for crowded places. This advice addresses a wide range 2011, engagement and work with suppliers is being of issues including how to minimise the risk to the commenced to understand how the commercial position public from litter bins. with suppliers and the police service can be improved. Guidelines on blast hazards and appropriate protective Departmental Work Experience security measures in relation to litter bins have been published by the Home Office Scientific and Development Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for the Branch (now the Centre for Applied Science and Home Department what advice her Department Technology) and the Centre for the Protection of National provides to those wishing to (a) work as an intern, (b) Infrastructure. The guidelines include the advice that undertake a work experience placement and (c) work litter bins should not be placed near areas where large numbers of people congregate (such as meeting places as a volunteer in her Department. [52800] in stations). Damian Green: The Civil Service Summer Diversity The CPNI website: Internship programme aims to provide high calibre www.cpni.gov.uk undergraduates/graduates with a six to eight week training/ provides advice on the testing of the explosive resistance work placement within government departments. In its of litter bins, as well as a range of basic good security current format it provides opportunities for black and measures. This includes giving consideration to the ethnic minority and (lower) socio-economic students. location, cleaning regime and the removal of bins, as For more information please view: well as the use of clear plastic bags. Further information www.faststream.gov.uk from NaCTSO is available on their website: applications open in December for the following summer. www.nactso.gov.uk 1109W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1110W

The railway industry is subject to requirements and what causal factors her Department has identified as guidance on the provision of litter bins at railway underlying the fall in the rate of homicide between stations, regulated by the Department for Transport. 2001-02 and 2009-10. [52502] Bins may be provided at the discretion of station operators, but where installed they are subject to specific security Nick Herbert: Analysis has not been conducted to control measures, including on their design, location, identify specific causal factors underlying this reduction. and security management. However, trend analysis presented in the Home Office Statistical Bulletin ‘Homicides, Firearm Offences and Driving Offences Intimate Violence 2009/10’ shows that there has been no or very little change over this period in the proportion Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the of homicides by particular methods or relationship of Home Department how many motoring offences were the victim to principal suspect. dealt with by police in each police force area in each Further, the bulletin shows that following a general year since 2006. [53400] rise between 1997-98 and 2001-02, the homicide rate in 2009-10 has now returned to a similar level as 1997-98 James Brokenshire: The information requested is not (at 11.8 per million population). collected centrally. Human Trafficking Entry Clearances: Overseas Students Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for the Department what recent assessment she has made of Home Department what consultation she has the level of human trafficking into the UK. [54534] undertaken with (a) further education colleges and (b) other interested parties on the effects of the Damian Green: Victims of trafficking are formally proposed differential between students studying at identified through the National Referral Mechanism further education colleges and universities in respect of (NRM). NRM statistical reports are published quarterly hours of eligibility for part-time work. [54899] and can be found on the SOCA website at: www.soca.gov.uk/about-soca/about-the-ukhtc/statistical-data Damian Green [holding answer 9 May 2011]:A public Between 1 April 2009 and 31 December 2010 there consultation on proposals for reform of the student were 1,254 potential victims of trafficking referred into route was conducted by the Home Office; this consultation the NRM. closed on 31 January 2011. All the responses received during the consultation period shaped the final policy Illegal Immigrants decisions that were taken, including on the ability for students to work during their studies. Full details of the Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for final policy changes we are making to tier 4 are set out the Home Department how many people were granted in the document “Student Visas—Statement of Intent leave to remain after (a) 10 years legal residence and and Transitional Measures”, which was published on (b) 14 years illegal residence in the UK in each year 31 March 2011. Copies are available in the House between 1997 and 2010. [54384] Library. Damian Green: The following table shows the number Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for the of people granted leave to remain after making a long Home Department whether international students residency application for (a) 10 year legal residence studying higher education courses at further education and (b) 14 years illegal residence in the UK covering colleges will be allowed to work for 20-hours a week on the period 1April 2003 to the 31 December 2010. The the same basis as their university counterparts under figures are separated by the year in which a decision was the proposed new regulations. [54901] made. The provision to grant indefinite leave to remain Damian Green [holding answer 9 May 2011]: In (ILR) on the basis of 14 year long term residence, along summer 2011, we will make the next set of changes to with that of 10 year long term residence, was introduced the student immigration system following on from the into the immigration rules in April 2003. Therefore we recent consultation on the route, including changes to are unable to provide data prior to this date. the ability for students to work. Students sponsored by Number of individuals granted leave to remain publicly-funded further education colleges will be given (a) 10 year legal (b) 14 year illegal permission to work of 10-hours per week during term-time, residence residence Total and full-time during vacations. Students studying at 2003 (from 2,043 952 2,995 privately funded providers of further and higher education, April) and at English language schools will not be granted 2004 2,260 781 3,041 permission to work at any time during their studies. 2005 2,581 730 3,311 This is set out in the document “Student Visas—Statement 2006 3,391 799 4,190 of Intent and Transitional Measures”, which was published 2007 2,411 949 3,360 on 31 March 2011. Copies are available in the House 2008 2,148 902 3,050 Library. 2009 3,042 2,061 5,103 Homicide 2010 4,759 1,774 6,533 22,635 8,948 31,583 Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the Note: All figures quoted are internal management information only and are subject Home Department pursuant to the answer of 7 March to change. This information has not been quality assured under National 2011, Official Report, columns 871-2W, on homicide, Statistics protocols. 1111W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1112W

Immigrants: English Language according to Kent Police Authority’s statement of accounts, Kent Police Authority gross expenditure in the year Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2009-10 was £1,516,000. Home Department what provisions she has made for the approval of English language test providers in the Newspaper Press period between the withdrawal of the list of approved providers and the publication of a new list. [54391] Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much her Department spent Damian Green: The new list of English language test on newspapers and periodicals in each of the last three providers was published on 6 April. Transitional years. [53429] arrangements have been put in place which will allow customers to use either the new list of providers or the Damian Green: The Home Office HQ purchases all existing list of providers for a specific period. newspapers, periodicals and trade profession journals For tier 1 and tier 2 of the points based system, the via a framework agreement. Expenditure for the last transitional arrangements apply to applications received three years is shown in the following tables. It should be by the UK Border Agency on or before 17 May 2011. noted that occasionally business areas purchase individual For applications as a spouse or partner the application copies of particular newspapers or magazines to meet must be received on or before 17 July 2011. There are no urgent business needs. These are funded from devolved transitional arrangements for tier 4 as the previous budgets for which figures are not available, and they are providers for tier 4 are all included on the new list along therefore not included. with two additional providers. HOHQ and UKBA Financial year Spend (£) Interpreters 2008-09 32,788.25 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2009-10 38,833.14 Home Department what scale of fees was payable to 2010-11 33,084.42 interpreters by (a) the UK Border Agency and its predecessors and (b) each police force in respect of (i) CRB illegal entry and (ii) criminal matters in each of the last Financial year Spend (£) five years; how much was paid for such services in each category in each such year; and what expenses are 2008-09 2,672.00 2009-10 323.21 payable to such interpreters. [53456] 2010-11 640.72 Damian Green: UK Border Agency Interpreters are paid as shown in the following table: IPS Financial year Spend (£) UKBA interpreter fees £ per hour 2008-09 0 2009-10 0 Weekdays First hour 48 2010-11 0 Then 116 220 Offences Saturdays First hour 72 Then 26 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Sundays/Bank holidays First hour 72 Home Department how many offences were recorded Then 32 per 1,000 population in (a) England and Wales and 1 Between 08:01 and 18:00 (b) each police force area for each type of offence in 2 Between 18:01 and 08:00 each year since 2007. [53420] These fees have remained the same since 2002. UK Border Agency are unable to provide amounts of spend Nick Herbert: The information requested is shown in on specific areas of interpreter provision as interpreter the tables placed in the House Library. events are not recorded in this manner. Passports Travel expenses are only paid for interpreters where they are travelling in excess of three hours each way. Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home The Home Office does not hold information regarding Department how many incorrectly issued passports remuneration and reimbursement of expenses for were seized by the UK Border Agency in each of the interpreters working for police forces. last five years. [54798] Kent Police Authority: Operating Costs Damian Green: The number of incorrectly issued UK Michael Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for the passports detected and seized by the UK Border Agency Home Department what the running cost of Kent at the UK border over the past five years is as follows: Police Authority was in each of the last five years. Number [53682] 2006 68 Nick Herbert [holding answer 3 May 2011]: The 2007 92 Home Office does not hold this information, and this 2008 47 should be referred to the authority itself. However, 1113W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1114W

to the will of Parliament, they will be issued following Number Royal Assent to the Police Reform and Social Responsibility 2009 33 Bill. 2010 27 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what regulations she plans to Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home introduce to govern the elections of directly-elected Department how many incorrectly issued passports police and crime commissioners. [53153] were returned voluntarily to the Identity and Passport Service in each of the last five years. [54799] Nick Herbert: As we have said, there will be a clear Damian Green: The following figures provide the and rigorous regulatory framework supporting police number of cases where customers have had passports and crime commissioner elections, just as there are for issued incorrectly and have returned them to the Identity other kinds of election. It will be set out in secondary and Passport Service (IPS) for the passport be amended. legislation, and issued following Royal Assent to the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill, subject to The Identity and Passport Service do not record how the will of Parliament. these passports are returned to us, therefore some may have been returned at the request of IPS and some may have been returned as the customer has noticed the Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the error themselves. Home Department what proportion of police resources is allocated to traffic policing in each police Number of Percentage of force area; how many dedicated traffic police officers passports passports there were in each such area in each year since 2007-08; incorrectly Total passports incorrectly what recent discussions she has had with the issued issued issued Association of Chief Police Officers on the number of 2006 11,352 6,317,839 0.18 dedicated traffic police officers; and if she will make a 2007 9,464 5,726,414 0.17 statement. [53369] 2008 7,949 5,293,681 0.15 2009 6,874 5,105,698 0.13 Nick Herbert: Available information relating to police 2010 6,203 5,341,034 0.12 officers whose primary function is listed as traffic in Total 41,842 27,784,666 0.15 England and Wales from 2007-08 to 2009-10 is given in the following table. Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Information on the proportion of police resources Department how many and what proportion of allocated to traffic policing is not available centrally. passports were incorrectly issued by the Identity and The Government allocates funding to Police Authorities Passport Service in each of the last five years. [54885] as a whole and they, in discussion with the chief constable, judge local need and prioritise resources accordingly. Damian Green: The following figures provide the The Secretary of State has not had discussions with number of cases where customers have had passports the Association of Chief Police Officers on this issue issued incorrectly and have returned them to the Identity because decisions on the deployment of officers to and Passport Service (IPS) for the passport be amended. different functions are an operational matter for chief constables to determine. Number of Percentage of passports passports Police officers FTE1 whose main function is traffic2 2007-08 to 2009-10 incorrectly Total passports incorrectly 2007-06 2006-09 2009-10 issued issued issued Avon and 160 168 157 2006 11,352 6,317,839 0.18 Somerset 2007 9,464 5,726,414 0.17 Bedfordshire 65 56 57 2008 7,949 5,293,681 0.15 Cambridgeshire 90 99 101 2009 6,874 5,105,698 0.13 Cheshire 94 88 90 2010 6,203 5,341,034 0.12 Cleveland 104 106 115 Total 41,842 27,784,666 0.15 Cumbria 99 66 86 Derbyshire 109 89 88 Police Devon and 232 236 239 Cornwall Dorset 78 79 76 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for the Durham 107 104 96 Home Department what rules she plans to introduce to Dyfed-Powys 128 94 64 govern the funding of election campaigns for directly- Essex 219 222 257 elected police and crime commissioners. [53152] Gloucestershire 67 67 65 Greater 338 315 310 Nick Herbert: There will be a clear and rigorous Manchester regulatory framework supporting police and crime Gwent 57 49 63 commissioner elections, just as there are for other kinds Hampshire 214 187 181 of election. The Government are working closely with Hertfordshire 152 151 139 the Electoral Commission, representatives of local Humberside 104 97 116 government and others to draw up these regulations, Kent 122 138 138 which will be set out in secondary legislation. Subject Lancashire 180 181 171 1115W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1116W

Police officers FTE1 whose main function is traffic2 2007-08 to 2009-10 in (a) 2009-10 and (b) 2010-11; and from which 2007-06 2006-09 2009-10 budget these costs were met. [53382] Leicestershire 74 85 86 Nick Herbert: The actual cost of policing party political Lincolnshire 92 66 84 conferences are set out in the following table. These City of London 26 23 30 costs were met from the Home Office special grant Merseyside 152 167 164 budget. Metropolitan 612 290 297 Police Costs of policing the annual party political conferences Norfolk 116 109 102 Financial year Political party £ million Northamptonshire 60 63 68 2009-10 Labour 5.7 Northumbria 165 164 169 Conservative 3.4 North Wales 90 88 86 North Yorkshire 105 103 99 Total 9.1 Nottinghamshire 144 139 47 South Wales 233 165 143 2010-11 Labour 3.3 South Yorkshire 144 135 130 Conservative 3.5 Staffordshire 34 30 67 Liberal Democrat 1.2 Suffolk 81 72 67 Surrey 98 97 100 Total 8.0 Sussex 160 166 159 Thames Valley 250 249 228 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Warwickshire 93 14 10 Home Department how many police officers (a) were West Mercia 128 119 101 killed on duty and (b) received bravery awards in each West Midlands 352 351 351 police force area in England and Wales in each year West Yorkshire 283 297 315 since 2005. [53392] Wiltshire 91 85 83 Total 6,299 5,714 5,634 Nick Herbert: Available information relates to fatal 1 This table contain full-time equivalent figures that have been rounded to the assaults on police officers by police force area in England nearest whole number. Because of rounding, there may be an apparent discrepancy between totals and the sums of the constituent items. and Wales from 2004-05 to 2009-10 and is given in the 2 Staff with multiple responsibi1ities (or designations) are recorded under their table (the table indicates where forces did not make a primary role or function. The traffic function includes staff who are statistical return for assaults). predominantly employed on motorcycles or in patrol vehicles for the policing of traffic and motorway related duties. The does not Include officers employed The UK Honours System (including awards for merit, in accident investigation, vehicle examination and radar duties. service or bravery) is managed by Cabinet Office Honours and Appointments Secretariat and details of awards are Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the published in the London Gazette. The number of police Home Department what estimate she has made of the officers receiving such awards is not collected centrally costs of policing the annual party political conferences within the police personnel statistics series.

Fatal assaults1 on police officers 2004-05 to 2009-10 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Avon and Somerset 0 0 0000 Bedfordshire 0 0 0000 Cambridgeshire 0 * 0000 Cheshire 0 0 00** Cleveland 0*0000 Cumbria 0 0 0**0 Derbyshire 000000 DevonandCornwall0**000 Dorset 000000 Durham 000000 Dyfed-Powys000000 Essex 00*0*0 Gloucestershire 0 0 *00* Greater Manchester 0 0 **0* Gwent 00*000 Hampshire * 0 *00* Hertfordshire000000 Humberside 0 0 0000 Kent 00*010 Lancashire 0 * *000 Leicestershire*00000 Lincolnshire 0 0 0000 London, City of 0 0 0000 Merseyside 0 0 0000 Metropolitan Police * 0 0000 Norfolk 000000 1117W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1118W

Fatal assaults1 on police officers 2004-05 to 2009-10 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Northamptonshire 0 0 *000 Northumbria 0 0 0000 NorthWales000*00 NorthYorkshire0000** Nottinghamshire 0 0 *000 South Wales 0 0 **00 South Yorkshire 0 0 0000 Staffordshire000000 Suffolk 00*000 Surrey 00*000 Sussex 000000 Thames Valley 0 0 0000 Warwickshire 0 0 0000 WestMercia00*000 West Midlands * 0 0000 WestYorkshire010000 Wiltshire 0 0 **00 * = Data unavailable/not provided by the police. 1 These data are provisional and have not been validated with forces.

Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the How much the Home Department has spent on policing since 1997 Home Department what the rate of abstraction of £ billion Metropolitan Police officers from each London Revenue funding Capital funding Total funding Financial England and England and England and borough for (a) counter-terrorism, (b) special year Wales1 Wales2 Wales operations and (c) public order event policing work was in each of the last three years; and if she will make 2003-04 4.6 0.2 4.8 a statement. [53463] 2004-05 4.8 0.2 5.0 2005-06 5.0 0.2 5.2 Nick Herbert: The information requested is not available 2006-07 5.3 0.2 5.5 centrally. 2007-08 5.6 0.2 5.8 2008-09 5.7 0.2 6.0 2009-10 5.9 0.2 6.1 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2010-113 5.9 0.2 6.2 Home Department what steps she has taken to support 1 Figures comprise the Home Office Core Settlement and certain specific grants. volunteers who (a) staff police stations and (b) 2 Capital includes Air Support, Reserves and specific grants. undertake other voluntary work for police forces. 3 Following in-year reductions (made to Capital and Rule 2 Grant). [53469] Note: From 2006-07 funding for pensions and security funding became specific grants. Nick Herbert: There are specific support systems in place to aid the growth of police support volunteer Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for the (PSV) programmes. In 2007, a Programme Board was Home Department how many sectionings under the established to assist in the development of PSV programmes Mental Health Act 1983 were initiated by a police in police forces across England and Wales. A PSV officer of each police force in each of the last five years. Business Plan issued by the PSV Programme Board was [54256] launched in September 2009, for the period 2009-13, which aims to promote and increase the use of PSVs. Nick Herbert: The information requested is not reported centrally. Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much her Department spent Police Custody on policing in each year since 1997. [53503]

Nick Herbert: The information requested is set out in Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the the following table: Home Department what her policy is on the use of police custody suites to detain persons considered (a) How much the Home Department has spent on policing since 1997 mentally ill or held for their own protection and (b) £ billion drunk and disorderly. [53468] Revenue funding Capital funding Total funding Financial England and England and England and year Wales1 Wales2 Wales Nick Herbert: The Government have no single policy 1997-98 3.1 0.2 3.3 on the use of police custody suites to detain individuals 1998-99 3.3 0.1 3.4 suffering from mental ill health or who are drunk and 1999- 3.3 0.1 3.4 disorderly, as each case is considered individually and 2000 will be an operational matter for the police to assess. 2000-01 3.5 0.1 3.6 However, the National Policing Improvement Agency 2001-02 3.8 0.2 3.9 and the Association of Chief Police Officers published 2002-03 4.1 0.2 4.3 “Guidance on the Safer Detention and Handling of 1119W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1120W

Persons in Police Custody in 2006” which examined Office who have specific responsibility for co-ordinating under what circumstances detention in police custody is the work to reduce unnecessary police bureaucracy. appropriate and safe. The Home Office works with other policing partners The police have specific powers under the Mental to reduce bureaucracy through the Reducing Bureaucracy Health Act 1983 to remove someone suffering from Programme Board, which is chaired by the Association mental ill health and in need of immediate care to a of Chief Police Officers. Areas also represented on this place of safety when necessary. A place of safety could Programme Board are Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of be residential accommodation, a hospital, a police station, Constabulary, the National Policing Improvement Agency a specialist care home or other appropriate accommodation. and the Association of Police Authorities. However, guidance stipulates that a police station should Police: Corruption only be used in exceptional circumstances and local protocols should exist to specify more appropriate locations. For those under the influence of alcohol who have Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the been identified as being a high medical risk, hospital Home Department how many cases of corruption should always be the first option. For others, police involving police officers which involved illegal drugs custody may be appropriate and a risk assessment on there were in each of the last five years. [53425] arrival will identify suitable healthcare, restraint, observation and rousing routines, as outlined in the Police and Nick Herbert: The information requested is not available Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) Code of Practice C. centrally. Police: Airports Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases were brought Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the against police forces by members of the public for (a) Home Department what the cost of policing each malicious prosecution, (b) false imprisonment and (c) airport was in each of the last five years; and if she will assault in each year since 1997; how many such cases were decided in favour of the complainant; and how make a statement. [53461] much compensation was paid in respect of each such Nick Herbert: The cost of uniformed police officers case. [53487] at airports is not held centrally. However, funding for Special Branch officers at ports is provided by the Nick Herbert: There are no criminal offences for (a) Home Office through Counter Terrorism grants as a malicious prosecution, (b) false imprisonment and (c) contribution to the police costs for specific national assault specifically by the police and the Home Office security functions. The grants paid to police forces does not hold information relating to civil cases. towards the costs of funding their Special Branch officers Data on complaints, however, was collected by the at ports in the last five financial years were as follows: Home Office up until April 2004 and is available at: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110218135832/ £ million rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/hosb1704.pdf This contains tables on proportions of complaints that 2006-07 71.4 were substantiated (Tables 5, 6), and by the type of 2007-08 72.6 proceedings which resulted (Table 8). Table 8 breaks 2008-09 77.1 down substantiated complaints by reason for complaint. 2009-10 77.8 Since April 2004 data on complaints has been collected 2010-11 76.3 by the Independent Police Complaints Commission Changes to arrangements for uniformed airport policing and is available at: were introduced in the Policing and Crime Act 2009 http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/default.aspx (section 79, 80 and Schedule 6) and are being implemented The IPCC data contains statistics relating to the number for the 2011-12 financial year. Under the new arrangements, of allegations recorded against police officers and the the airport operator, the local police and the relevant outcomes of completed investigations for unlawful/ police authority should agree the level of policing required unnecessary arrest or detention and assault. The IPCC at airports. does not hold statistics on malicious prosecution. The onus is on the airport operator to meet the costs It is entirely at the discretion of the chief constable as in full where a dedicated policing presence is required. to how to respond to any claims for compensation. The Home Office does not therefore collate any figures on Police: Bureaucracy this, although individual police forces may hold these data. Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many officials of her Police: Drugs Department have been assigned to duties with the objective of reducing the burden of administration on Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the police forces in each of the last 10 years. [53493] Home Department what proportion of those brought into a police station tested positively for Class A drugs Nick Herbert: There are many areas of Home Office in each year since 2007-08; and what proportion of business which relate to reducing the burden of those voluntarily agreed to treatment. [53385] administration on police forces and numbers of staff in these areas change throughout each year. However, James Brokenshire: The information requested is not there are currently two members of staff in the Home collected centrally. 1121W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1122W

Police: Expenditure Police: Firearms Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Home Department how many police officers have for the Home Department if she will estimate the cost received firearm injuries while on duty (a) in England to the public purse of the work of police forces with and Wales and (b) in each police force area in each (a) the NHS, (b) voluntary organisations and (c) year since 2007. [53384] local authorities in 2009-10; and if she will make a Nick Herbert: Available information relates to offences statement. [54701] recorded by the police in England and Wales between 2006-07 and 2009-10 where a firearm (excluding air weapons) was fired and the victim was an on-duty Damian Green [holding answer 9 May 2011]: The police officer. The police force area data are provided in Government have been clear that police forces must use Table A. England and Wales data were published in their resources to good effect and achieve value for Table 2c in ’Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate money. However, spending decisions are for the chief Violence 2009/10’ on 20 January 2011 at the following constable and police authority to make locally and data link: about the cost of working with the NHS, voluntary http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- organisations and local authorities are therefore not statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0111/ collected centrally. hosb0111?view=Binary

Table A: Crimes recorded by the police in which a firearm (excluding air weapons) was fired and the victim was an on-duty police officer, England and Wales, 2006-07 to 2009-10 Number of offences 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Resulted in: Resulted in: Resulted in: Resulted in: Fatal In Fatal Fatal Fatal Police force area Total Injury1 injury Total injury1 injury Total Injury1 injury Total Injury1 injury

Cleveland———————————— Durham———————————— Northumbria ———————————— North East ———————————— Region

Cheshire 1 1—————————— Cumbria ———————————— Greater 31—21—4——22— Manchester Lancashire — — — 7 7 — 4 2 — — — — Merseyside 2 1 — 4 1——————— North West 63—139—82—22— Region

Humberside 1 1———— 1————— NorthYorkshire———————————— South Yorkshire —————— 1————— WestYorkshire3 2— 1 1———— 2 1— Yorkshire and the 43—11—2——21— Humber Region

Derbyshire———————————— Leicestershire1 1——————— 1 1— Lincolnshire ———————————— Northamptonshire ————————— 1—— Nottinghamshire — — — 2 1——————— East Midlands 1 1— 2 1———— 2 1— Region

Staffordshire———————————— Warwickshire — — — 1 1——————— WestMercia1——21111———— West Midlands 5 5 — 4 3 — 1————— West Midlands 65—75121———— Region

Bedfordshire ———————————— Cambridgeshire ———————————— Essex —————— 2 2— 3 3— 1123W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1124W

Table A: Crimes recorded by the police in which a firearm (excluding air weapons) was fired and the victim was an on-duty police officer, England and Wales, 2006-07 to 2009-10 Number of offences 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Resulted in: Resulted in: Resulted in: Resulted in: Fatal In Fatal Fatal Fatal Police force area Total Injury1 injury Total injury1 injury Total Injury1 injury Total Injury1 injury

Hertfordshire———————————— Norfolk ———————————— Suffolk ——— 1———————— East of England ——— 1—— 2 2— 3 3— Region

City of London ———————————— Metropolitan 5 3 — 6 1 — 10 4 — 9 9 — London Region 53—61—104—99—

Hampshire ———————————— Kent ———————————— Surrey ———————————— Sussex ———————————— Thames Valley — — — 2 2 — 1 — — 3 — — South East Region ——— 2 2— 1—— 3——

Avon and ——— 1———————— Somerset Devon and ————————— 1—— Cornwall Dorset ———————————— Gloucestershire 3 3 — 1———————— Wiltshire 1 1—————————— South West 4 4— 2————— 1—— Region

Dyfed-Powys1 1—————————— Gwent ———————————— NorthWales———————————— South Wales —————— 1————— Wales 1 1———— 1—————

England and 27 20 — 34 19 1 26 9 — 22 16 — Wales 1 Includes fatal, serious (which necessitated detention in hospital or involved fractures, concussion, severe general shock, penetration by a bullet or multiple shot wounds) and slight injuries.

Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Nick Herbert: Home Office checks have found no Home Department on how many operations firearms cases of police officers having been found guilty of were issued to police officers in England and Wales in offences of unlawful killing using firearms in each of each year since 2005; in how many such operations the last 20 years. weapons were discharged by police officers; how many police officers were qualified to carry firearms in each Police: Harrow such year; and how many police officers in each police force area were armed while on duty in each such year. Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for the [53394] Home Department how many police officers were employed in Harrow in each of the last three years; and if she will make a statement. [54310] Nick Herbert: Figures on the police use of firearms are published as part of the annual data requirement. Nick Herbert [holding answer 5 May 2011]: Available The last figures for 2008-09 were published on 5 March data relates to police officer strength for Harrow basic 2010 and can be found at: command unit from 31 March 2008 to 31 March 2010. The latest annual Police Service Strength Home Office http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/police-use-firearms/ Statistical Bulletin was published in July 2010 and relates to 2009-10. It can be found at: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the statistics/research-statistics/police-research/hosb1410/ Home Department how many police officers were ?view=Standard&pubID=864832 found guilty of offences of unlawful killing using Bulletins for this and previous years are deposited in firearms in each of the last 20 years. [53451] the Library of the House. 1125W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1126W

Police: Internet Current national Information and Communication Technology (ICT) systems System Purpose

Police National The PNC is a critical national service which the Police Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Computer (PNC) Service and many others in the Criminal Justice Home Department what progress has been made in the System, rely on in order to perform their jobs effectively and safely. It contains records from a integration of IT systems used by (a) police forces and number of separate information databases. (b) other policing bodies. [53467] Airwave Airwave is the UK’s secure radio service used by the police, fire and ambulance services as well as other public safety organisations. Nick Herbert: As well as an increasing number of Visor Visor is a secure register of dangerous persons used by police, probation and prisons to manage violent and national Information and Communication Technology sex offenders, especially cross-border. (ICT) systems that already exist (Annex A), the process Police National The PND is an ICT system that allows the whole of of convergence of police IT through the Information Database the Police Service to share, access and search local Systems Improvement Strategy (ISIS) over the four force information drawn from crime, custody, intelligence, child abuse and domestic abuse systems. It years of the spending review has already begun. is currently in the process of being rolled out. ISIS will allow forces to purchase standardised ICT Police: Manpower services from a smaller number of suppliers. This will mean that police ICT is increasingly integrated, cheaper Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the and better supports interoperability and collaboration Home Department what the cost of employing police between forces. officers as a proportion of the total budget for each Current national Information and Communication Technology (ICT) systems police force in England was in each year since 1990. System Purpose [53386]

National Firearms The NFLMS holds data on firearms licences at police Nick Herbert: The information from 2001-02 until Licensing force area level for police forces in England and Wales. 2009-10 (the latest available) is set out in the table. Management It does not cover the whole of the UK. System (NFLMS) Information prior to 2001-02 is available only at a disproportionate cost.

Table showing proportion of total revenue expenditure spent on police officer salaries by individual police forces in England Percentage 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Avon and Somerset 49 49 50 47 46 59 57 52 53 Bedfordshire 52 51 53 49. 46 57 59 56 54 Cambridgeshire 50 49 47 46 38 54 58 57 52 Cheshire 52 53 51 46 48 61 59 54 54 City of London 50 51 54 53 52 62 57 55 53 Cleveland 49 49 46 48 48 64 58 58 57 Cumbria 49 49 51 49 48 59 60 56 51 Derbyshire 525154514964615757 Devon and Cornwall 50 47 50 47 46 59 57 51 53 Dorset 474848454557585753 Durham 54 56 58 55 52 70 56 63 60 Essex 525353504962605857 Gloucestershire 50 50 49 47 47 59 58 53 55 Greater Manchester 54 56 58 47 51 60 66 62 61 Hampshire 49 55 53 47 43 59 61 58 55 Hertfordshire 51 49 47 45 44 57 56 53 51 Humberside 54 56 56 52 49 65 61 58 56 Kent 51 52 51 51 42 59 57 54 55 Lancashire 52 52 53 50 49 63 61 59 61 Leicestershire 55 54 54 53 52 61 65 62 60 Lincolnshire 50 50 50 46 47 55 57 55 50 Merseyside 51 52 56 53 51 65 64 65 64 Metropolitan Police 50 50 51 48 46 59 58 57 57 Norfolk 47 45 46 44 42 53 52 48 51 NorthYorkshire485051504556545251 Northamptonshire 48 47 46 44 41 49 52 50 50 Northumbria 53 54 56 54 51 67 64 63 63 Nottinghamshire 51 51 55 51 49 64 63 59 58 South Yorkshire 55 54 55 53 50 64 62 59 55 Staffordshire 525252464562615656 Suffolk 49 49 48 44 44 56 60 58 54 Surrey 514846414051494642 Sussex 484847444354545049 Thames Valley 49 47 47 40 43 58 55 52 52 Warwickshire 51 51 47 42 40 62 62 60 46 1127W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1128W

Table showing proportion of total revenue expenditure spent on police officer salaries by individual police forces in England Percentage 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

West Mercia 48 49 52 51 48 59 59 56 55 West Midlands 56 57 58 55 52 64 68 63 61 WestYorkshire485051494859575457 Wiltshire 48 47 46 43 42 55 51 49 49 Notes: 1. All proportions derived from data from the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy’s annual Police Statistics publication. 2. The suture of funding for police pensions changed in 2006-07 which is likely to be a key reason for the noticeable difference in proportions between 2005-06 and 2006-07.

Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Nick Herbert: The information requested is shown in Home Department how many civilian staff have been the following table: employed in England and Wales, broken down by police force area in each year since 2007. [53401]

Police staff1 strength2 in England and Wales by police force as at 31 March 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 30 September 2010 As at 31 March Police force 2007 2008 2009 2010 30 September 2010

Avon and Somerset 2,208 2,289 2,176 1,871 1,896 Bedfordshire 744 724 764 825 820 Cambridgeshire 922 892 990 1,038 993 Cheshire 1,262 1,406 1,480 1,480 1,439 Cleveland 711 701 725 700 713 Cumbria 743 773 811 794 761 Derbyshire 1,204 1,266 1,288 1,225 1,189 Devon and Cornwall 2,046 2,147 1,790 1,766 1,730 Dorset 973 959 984 1,027 993 Durham 762 816 925 881 855 Essex 1,918 1,986 2,087 2,075 1,981 Gloucestershire 718 700 708 729 725 Greater Manchester 3,369 3,534 3,861 3,927 3,822 Hampshire 2,354 2,430 2,352 2,271 2,260 Hertfordshire 1,501 1,490 1,549 1,481 1,409 Humberside 1,213 1,313 1,404 1,415 1,403 Kent 2,285 2,337 2,430 2,381 2,280 Lancashire 1,802 1,927 1,982 1,957 1,906 Leicestershire 1,141 1,142 1,218 1,151 1,130 Lincolnshire 720 760 616 879 873 London, City of 319 299 297 310 325 Merseyside 2,173 2,203 2,221 2,117 2,101 Metropolitan Police 14,016 14,085 14,177 14,179 14,047 Norfolk 1,059 1,053 1,072 1,072 1,018 Northamptonshire 1.009 1,024 1,151 1,161 1,120 Northumbria 1,711 1,863 2,068 2,010 1,972 North Yorkshire 1,128 1,079 1,095 1,159 1,153 Nottinghamshire 1,370 1,372 1,505 1,567 1,507 South Yorkshire 1,978 2,038 2,120 2,304 2,311 Staffordshire 1,287 1,309 1,315 1,315 1,234 Suffolk 847 614 668 922 913 Surrey 1,680 1,808 1,732 1,829 1,854 Sussex 1,994 1,974 2,080 2,139 2,133 Thames Valley 2,756 2,772 2,897 2,930 2,885 Warwickshire 624 629 688 765 744 West Mercia 1,618 1,647 1,722 1,715 1,686 West Midlands 3.348 3,436 3,570 3,667 3,544 West Yorkshire 3,077 3,247 3,483 3,539 3,464 Wiltshire 859 879 854 833 801 Dyfed-Powys 606 625 633 692 671 Gwent 805 855 855 810 815 North Wales 759 774 823 876 845 South Wales 1,559 1,575 1,728 1,810 1,800 Total 43 Forces 75,176 76,948 79,296 79,595 78,120 1 Police stall excludes designated officers, police community support officers and traffic wardens, 2 This table contains full-time equivalent figures that have been rounded to the nearest whole number. Because of rounding, there may be an apparent discrepancy between totals and the sums of the constituent items. 1129W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1130W

Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Nick Herbert: The information requested is shown in Home Department how many police officers there were the following table: in each police force in each year since 2008. [53423]

Police officer strength in England and Wales by police force as at 31 March 2008, 2009, 2010 and 30 September 2010 As at 31 March Police force 2008 2009 2010 30 September 2010

Avon and Somerset 3,407 3,355 3,302 3,264 Bedfordshire 1,207 1,244 1,246 1,242 Cambridgeshire 1,379 1,450 1,471 1,441 Cheshire 2,181 2,180 2,142 2,148 Cleveland 1,692 1,756 1,724 1,694 Cumbria 1,246 1,284 1,238 1,220 Derbyshire 2,095 2,137 2,074 2,076 Devon and Cornwall 3,529 3,556 3,561 3,526 Dorset 1,518 1,512 1,486 1,478 Durham 1,632 1,588 1,507 1,463 Essex 3,385 3,484 3,606 3,639 Gloucestershire 1,353 1,372 1,309 1,295 Greater Manchester 8,034 8,232 8,148 7,976 Hampshire 3,912 3,811 3,748 3,702 Hertfordshire 2,162 2,172 2,130 2,092 Humberside 2,243 2,110 2,058 2,001 Kent 3,718 3,799 3,834 3,741 Lancashire 3,675 3,753 3,649 3,549 Leicestershire 2,241 2,363 2,317 2,258 Lincolnshire 1,201 1,229 1,206 1,197 London, City of 830 813 852 878 Merseyside 4,477 4,494 4,516 4,414 Metropolitan Police 31,460 32,610 33,367 32,900 Norfolk 1,578 1,668 1,665 1,631 Northamptonshire 1,309 1,326 1,343 1,337 Northumbria 3,983 4,111 4,187 4,144 North Yorkshire 1,581 1,460 1,486 1,452 Nottinghamshire 2,369 2,408 2,409 2,379 South Yorkshire 3,201 3,053 2,953 2,977 Staffordshire 2,269 2,211 2,161 2,116 Suffolk 1,319 1,291 1,246 1,272 Surrey 1,944 1,872 1,890 1,864 Sussex 3,075 3,196 3,213 3,177 Thames Valley 4,186 4,317 4,434 4,412 Warwickshire 1,036 994 973 949 West Mercia 2,486 2,471 2,391 2,303 West Midlands 8,412 8,637 8,626 8,485 West Yorkshire 5,822 5,854 5,759 5,673 Wiltshire 1,210 1,229 1,181 1,138 Dyfed-Powys 1,194 1,197 1,195 1,175 Gwent 1,487 1,438 1,437 1,508 North Wales 1,579 1,586 1,590 1,558 South Wales 3,244 3,146 3,148 3,108 Total 43 Forces 141,859 143,770 143,776 141,850 Note: This table contain full-time equivalent figures that have been rounded to the nearest whole number. Because of rounding, there may be an apparent discrepancy between totals and the sums of the constituent items.

Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for the application forms or managing police recruitment Home Department what guidance her Department assessment centres does not stipulate the involvement issues to police forces on the involvement of serving of serving police officers. police officers in recruitment processes for police officers; and which forces (a) do and (b) do not The National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) engage serving officers in their recruitment processes. maintains a database of trained police officer recruit [54257] assessment centre assessors which shows that: (a) 42 of the 43 police forces in England and Wales have Nick Herbert: The involvement of police officers in reported to the NPIA having police officers who have been any part of police officer recruitment process is a matter trained to assess one or more exercises at the police officer recruit for the chief officer. Guidance on marking police officer assessment centre. 1131W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1132W

(b) Essex police has not reported to the NPIA any police Table 1: Spend on overtime by force officers trained to assess any of the police officer recruit assessment £ million centre exercises. Spend on officer overtime It should be noted that the accuracy of the database Force 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 is dependent upon the accuracy of information passed Durham 3.596 2.702 2.678 onto the NPIA by assessors as it is self reported data. Dyfed-Powys 2.566 2.329 2.339 The database may also include officers who have trained Essex 11.732 9.623 7.714 but who have subsequently left the force. This information Gloucestershire 3.353 2.662 3.519 does not reflect the levels of deployment or engagement Greater 23.322 23.319 24.257 of serving police officers in the police officer recruit Manchester assessment centre or any other part of the police officer Gwent 4.134 3.548 3.299 recruit process. Hampshire 11.48 8.871 8.091 Police: Overtime Hertfordshire 7.272 6.159 5.663 Humberside 6.874 5.402 5.598 Kent 6.548 10.084 7.055 Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Lancashire 8.918 7.801 7.004 Home Department what the (a) total and (b) average Leicestershire 5.476 5.169 4.527 overtime payments for police officers were in each Lincolnshire 3.708 2.68 2.49 police force in England and Wales for each year since London, City 2.731 2.141 2.342 2007-08. [53396] of Merseyside 11.071 10.8465 10.853 Nick Herbert: Information about police service Metropolitan 144.957 137.876 * expenditure, including overtime, is available on the website Police of the Chartered Institute of Public Finance Accountants: Norfolk 4.201 3.298 3.034 www.cipfastats.net Northamptonshire 3.478 2.829 2.463 Two tables follow: Table 1 shows the past spend on Northumbria 7.878 7.424 8.138 police officer overtime by force; Table 2 calculates overtime North Wales 3.626 2.738 3.056 spend by officer, based on data from Table 1 and police North 2.996 2.477 3.992 Yorkshire officer strength recorded in Home Office Annual Data Nottinghamshire 5.036 5.469 6.057 Returns. South Wales 6.827 6.449 6.18 Table 1: Spend on overtime by force South 10.167 8.329 9.209 £ million Yorkshire Spend on officer overtime Staffordshire 5.104 4.969 5.277 Force 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Suffolk 3.543 2.856 2.1 Surrey 5.93 4.643 4.875 Avon and 6.996 6.535 6.239 Somerset Sussex 5.946 6.598 6.684 Bedfordshire 3.993 3.962 4.079 Thames Valley 13.762 * 10.767 Cambridgeshire 4.238 4.584 3.37 Warwickshire 3.753 3.33 2.341 Cheshire 6.925 4.425 4.554 West Mercia 5.56 5.77 4.864 Cleveland 4.369 3.813 3.306 West Midlands 24.152 21.301 17.95 Cumbria 2.444 1.712 1.359 West Yorkshire 18.128 13,79 12.496 Derbyshire 4.854 4.256 3.533 Wiltshire 2.719 3.18 1.654 Devon and 6.548 6.467 5.12 * Data unavailable Cornwall Source: Dorset 3.243 3.181 2.608 Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy

Table 2: Overtime spend per officer Officer strength FTE at 31 March of financial year1 Spend per officer (£) Force 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Avon and Somerset 3,407 3,355 3,302 2,054 1,948 1,889 Bedfordshire 1,207 1,246 1,246 3,309 3,180 3,274 Cambridgeshire 1,380 1,450 1,471 3,072 3,162 2,291 Cheshire 2,181 2,180 2,155 3,175 2,030 2,113 Cleveland 1,692 1,756 1,724 2,582 2,171 1,918 Cumbria 1,246 1,284 1,238 1,961 1,333 1,098 Derbyshire 2,095 2,137 2,074 2,317 1,992 1,703 Devon and Cornwall 3,529 3,556 3,556 1,855 1,819 1,440 Dorset 1,518 1,512 1,486 2,137 2,104 1,755 Durham 1,632 1,589 1,507 2,203 1,701 1,777 Dyfed-Powys 1,194 1,197 1,195 2,149 1,945 1,957 Essex 3,385 3,484 3,606 3,466 2,762 2,139 Gloucestershire 1,353 1,371 1,309 2,478 1,942 2,688 Greater Manchester 8,034 8,232 8,148 2,903 2,833 2,977 Gwent 1,487 1,438 1,437 2,781 2,467 2,296 Hampshire 3,912 3,811 3,748 2,934 2,328 2,159 Hertfordshire 2,162 2,172 2,130 3,364 2,835 2,659 1133W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1134W

Table 2: Overtime spend per officer Officer strength FTE at 31 March of financial year1 Spend per officer (£) Force 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Humberside 2,243 2,110 2,058 3,064 2,560 2,720 Kent 3,718 3,799 3,787 1,761 2,655 1,863 Lancashire 3,675 3,753 3,649 2,427 2,079 1,919 Leicestershire 2,241 2,363 2,317 2,443 2,187 1,954 Lincolnshire 1,201 1,229 1,206 3,086 2,180 2,065 London, City of 830 813 852 3,288 2,632 2,749 Merseyside 4,477 4,494 4,516 2,473 2,414 2,403 Metropolitan Police 31,460 32,610 33,367 4,608 4,228 * Norfolk 1,575 1,668 1,662 2,668 1,977 1,826 Northamptonshire 1,309 1,326 1,343 2,657 2,133 1,834 Northumbria 3,983 4,111 4,187 1,978 1,806 1,944 North Wales 1,579 1,586 1,590 2,297 1,726 1,922 North Yorkshire 1,581 1,460 1,486 1,895 1,697 2,686 Nottinghamshire 2,369 2,408 2,409 2,125 2,271 2,514 South Wales 3,244 3,146 3,148 2,104 2,050 1,963 South Yorkshire 3,201 3,053 2,953 3,176 2,728 3,119 Staffordshire 2,269 2,211 2,161 2,249 2,248 2,442 Suffolk 1,319 1,291 1,246 2,687 2,212 1,685 Surrey 1,944 1,872 1,890 3,051 2,480 2,579 Sussex 3,075 3,196 3,213 1,934 2,065 2,080 Thames Valley 4,186 4,317 4,434 3,288 * 2,428 Warwickshire 1,036 994 973 3,624 3,352 2,406 West Mercia 2,486 2,471 2,391 2,236 2,335 2,034 West Midlands 8,412 8,637 8,626 2,871 2,466 2,081 West Yorkshire 5,822 5,854 5,758 3,114 2,356 2,170 Wiltshire 1,210 1,250 1,181 2,247 2,544 1,401 * Data unavailable 1 Source of officer strength data: Home Office Annual Data Returns Note: It should be noted that some officers will claim no overtime during a year, but the Home Office does hold information on the number of these officers.

Police: Riot Control Weapons From 1 April 2006 a new qualification for police constables was introduced called the Diploma in Policing. Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for This qualification is part of the overall Initial Policing the Home Department what information her Learning and Development Programme (IPLDP), which Department holds on the number of occasions CS gas is managed by the National Policing Improvement Agency spray has been used in public order operations by (NPIA) but delivered locally by each individual police police. [53184] force. The national residential sites for the delivery of police training closed, with effect from May 2006. Nick Herbert: The Home Office does not hold this information. Police: Working Hours

Police: Rural Areas Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what estimate her Department has made of the number of police hours saved attributable Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the to the introduction of personal digital assistants for Home Department what her policy is on the use of police officers. [53478] mobile police units in policing rural areas; and if she will make a statement. [53465] Nick Herbert: This information is not held centrally. However, the National Policing Improvement Agency Nick Herbert: Decisions about the policing of rural (NPIA) has been evaluating the effect that personal areas, including the use of mobile police units, are digital assistants have had on police officers’ use of operational matters and are the responsibility of the time. Findings should be available later in the year. chief officer of the force concerned. Prince William: Marriage Police: Training Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Home Department (1) what steps her Department Home Department how many police officer recruits in is taking to protect the wedding of HRH Prince England and Wales began residential training in each William and Catherine Middleton from terrorist threat; year since 2006. [53433] [52178] (2) what recent discussions she has had on security Nick Herbert: No new police officer recruits have arrangements for the wedding of HRH Prince William begun residential training since 2006. and Catherine Middleton. [52179] 1135W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1136W

Nick Herbert: The Secretary of State for the Home forces on the performance indicators for private sector Department held a number of discussions on the counter companies contracted to protect the public during the terrorism and public order policing arrangements for London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. [53831] the royal wedding, including briefing from senior officers in the Metropolitan Police Service. Nick Herbert [holding answer 3 May 2011]: The use However, it is our policy not to provide detailed of private security companies to protect Olympic and information on the policing operation or security Paralympic venues is principally a matter for the London arrangements. To do so would risk compromising the Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic integrity of those arrangements. Games (LOCOG). On 21 March 2011, LOCOG announced that it had appointed G4S Secure Solutions Ltd as Security: Olympic Games 2012 Official Security Service provider for the Games. Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for the The Home Office is fully involved in monitoring and Home Department how many firms will be engaged to overseeing all aspects of Olympic preparations and provide security services during the London 2012 together with the police work closely with LOCOG to provide advice on venue security requirements (including Olympics. [52667] security personnel requirements) and to ensure integration Nick Herbert: Beyond the responsibilities of the police with the wider safety and security operation. The Home and security agencies, provision of security services Secretary and the Security Minister are closely involved during the 2012 Games are principally a matter for the in security planning and attend regular meetings and London Organising Committee of the Olympic and briefings on the wider security programme. Paralympic Games (LOCOG). On 21 March 2011, LOCOG announced that it had appointed G4S Secure Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for the Solutions Ltd as Official Security Service Provider for Home Department what arrangements are in place to the Games. G4S’s role will cover a range of security evaluate the competence of private security companies provision including search and screening at venue entrances, contracted for the London 2012 Olympic and perimeter and mobile protection, and CCTV monitoring. Paralympic Games; and if she will make a statement. Rapiscan Systems were appointed on 3 March 2011 as [53832] Official Provider of security screening solutions for the Games. Nick Herbert [holding answer 3 May 2011]: The use of private security companies to protect Olympic and Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for the Paralympic venues is principally a matter for the London Home Department what assessment she has made of Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic the readiness of the police and security forces Games (LOCOG). On 21 March 2011, LOCOG announced responsible for public protection during the London that it had appointed G4S Secure Solutions Ltd as 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games; and if she will Official Security Service provider for the Games. The make a statement. [53787] Home Office and police work closely with LOCOG to Nick Herbert [holding answer 3 May 2011]: The provide advice on venue security requirements (including Home Office’s Olympic and Paralympic safety and security personnel requirements) and to ensure integration security strategy, run by the police, the London Organising with the wider safety and security operation. There are Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic robust systems in place for monitoring and overseeing games (LOCOG), the Olympic Delivery Authority and all aspects of Olympic preparations and the Home other partners, provides a framework for projects to Office is fully involved in these. safeguard and secure London 2012. The police and security services already invest significant resource into Terrorism: Northern Ireland planning for security and other major risks to the UK, and have considerable expertise in dealing with both Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for threats and incidents. Our approach to the games is the Home Department (1) what recent discussions she intelligence-led and risk-based, giving us the flexibility has had with the Secretary of State for Northern to respond to any changes between now and 2012. Ireland regarding dissident republican terrorism; Regular threat assessments inform our risk management [52071] process. Threat levels may change rapidly, and by basing the plans against a SEVERE threat level we maximise (2) what recent discussions she has had on the threat our flexibility. to the security of Great Britain from dissident Last year the Minister for Security and Counter- republican terrorists. [52183] Terrorism, my noble Friend Baroness Neville-Jones, conducted an audit and review of Olympic security Nick Herbert: The Secretary of State for the Home planning, and that concluded that that work is well Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for placed. There is of course more work to be done, but an Maidenhead (Mrs May), takes a keen interest in issues effective foundation has already been established. We related to Residual Terrorist Groups in Northern Ireland, have protected the Olympic security budget, which is in not least given the increase in the threat level posed by addition to core funding for the police and counter- Northern Irish Related Terrorism to Great Britain since terrorism. September 2010. She is regularly briefed on the threat and has meetings with officials and Ministers, including Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, to discuss a Home Department what recent discussions she has had range of related matters. Details of these meetings with the (a) Metropolitan Police and (b) security cannot be disclosed. 1137W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1138W

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for meeting. Telephone and video-conferencing arrangements the Home Department what recent discussions she has are already used routinely across the Department and had with the Justice Minister of the Northern Ireland further improvements are under way to reduce costs Executive regarding dissident republican terrorism. and encourage greater use of these facilities. While [52072] there are no current plans to set targets for use of such facilities, the impact of these changes will be monitored. Nick Herbert: The Secretary of State for the Home Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for Young Offenders Maidenhead (Mrs May), takes a keen interest in issues related to Residual Terrorist Groups in Northern Ireland, Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the not least given the increase in the threat level posed by Home Department how many offences were committed Northern Irish Related Terrorism to Great Britain since by juvenile offenders in each year since 1997. [53436] September 2010. She is regularly briefed on the threat and has meetings with officials and Ministers, including Nick Herbert: There are two sources of statistics on the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, to discuss a crime in England and Wales: police recorded crime and range of related matters. the British Crime Survey (BCS). Police recorded crime is based on offences reported to and recorded by the Vetting police. The BCS is a sample survey restricted to the population resident in households but includes crimes Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the not reported to the police. While both sources provide Home Department on how many and what proportion estimates of the number of offences experienced by of record checks processed by the Criminal Records victims they cover, neither source can be used to provide Bureau chief police officers in each police force area counts of the characteristics (e.g. age) of offenders. had entered comments on otherwise clean reports in Information on offenders dealt with by the criminal each year since 2002. [53452] justice system is available from the Ministry of Justice. Latest figures including trends for juvenile offenders Nick Herbert: Only the Enhanced level Criminal dealt with by formal police cautions, reprimands or Record Bureau (CRB) check will involve a check of warning, or criminal court proceedings in England and information held locally by police forces. Wales appear in the annual statistical bulletin ‘Criminal The number and proportion of certificates issued by Statistics: England and Wales 2009’ or ‘Youth Justice the CRB for each financial year since 2002-03, where a Board annual workload statistics 2009-10’. Copies of chief officer of a police force has included information these reports are available from the House of Commons as ‘other relevant information’ and where no other Library. information was included on the certificate can be found in the table as follows. Please note that the following EDUCATION figures represent the number of certificates issued and Children: Day Care not the number of applicants as an individual may have been issued with more than one certificate. Andy Burnham: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what recent estimate he has made of the Proportion of certificates average cost of child care (a) nationally and (b) in Certificates issued with each region in (i) 2011-12, (ii) 2012-13 and (iii) 2013-14. which contained ’other relevant [54398] ’other relevant information’ Total certificate information only Sarah Teather [holding answer 9 May 2011]: The Financial year volumes only’ (percentage) Department for Education has no estimate of the average 2002-03 1,437,094 4,294 0.30 child care costs for 2011/12 to 2013/14. However, annual 2003-04 2,284,688 7,156 0.31 statistics on the average fees charged by providers are 2004-05 2,430,937 7,520 0.31 published by the Department in the Childcare and 2005-06 2,770,265 10,126 0.37 Early YearsSurvey of Providers. The 2008 report includes 2006-07 3,277,957 9,407 0.29 national and regional figures. Figures for 2010 will be 2007-08 3,323,334 9,648 0.29 published in the autumn. 2008-09 3,853,686 11,073 0.29 Average hourly fees charged by region 2009-10 4,299,906 12,833 0.30 £ 2010-11 4,311,820 13,194 0.31 Full day care in Video Conferencing Full day children’s care centres Sessional Childminders Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Overall mean 3.50 3.30 2.30 3.60 average hourly Home Department if she will set a target to increase fee the use of video conferencing by her Department’s East midlands 3.60 — — 13.20 officials as an alternative to staff travel to meetings. East 3.50 — 2.30 3.60 [53450] London 4,60 — 2.40 4.30 North-east 3.20 — — 3.20 Damian Green: The Home Office encourages staff to Yorkshire and 3.00 — 2.20 3.20 avoid unnecessary travel, including through the use of Humberside telephone and video conferencing, and to use the most North-west 3.60 — 2.10 13.00 cost-effective means where they do need to travel to a South-east 3.50 — 2.60 3.80 1139W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1140W

Average hourly fees charged by region payment to the end of the 2011/12 academic year. We £ estimate that around 80,000 young people will continue Full day to receive the maximum EMA payment on this basis in care in Full day children’s 2011/12. care centres Sessional Childminders Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 South-west 3.30 — 2.30 3.60 Education whether Capita will be responsible for 1 West midlands 2.90 — — 3.00 administering (a) 16-19 education bursaries and (b) 1 Figures should be treated with caution due to a low number of providers in the subsample. continuing education maintenance allowance payments Note: for those students. [54010] No regional figures are available for full day care in children’s centres. No figures are provided in relation to sessional providers in some regions owing to insufficient sample size. Mr Gibb [holding answer 4 May 2011]: The 16-19 Base: bursary funding will be administered locally by schools, Module B childcare providers 2008. Childminders 2008. colleges and training organisations. The weekly payments made under the transitional support scheme will be Discretionary Learner Support Fund administered by Capita, under the contract it holds with the Young People’s Learning Agency. Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how much funding he has allocated to Education: Finance discretionary learner support for (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13, (c) 2013-14 and (d) 2014-15. [54009] Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Education pursuant to the answer of 26 April 2011, Mr Gibb [holding answer 4 May 2011]: From September Official Report, column 281W, on education: finance, 2011, financial support for young people will be through whether he has made an estimate of the likely cost to the new 16-19 Bursary Fund, which will be worth £180 (a) schools, (b) colleges and (c) other training million each academic year. The following table shows providers of administering a discretionary support the funding allocated to the 16-19 Bursary Fund—including fund for 16 to 19 learners. [54418] transitional support for those currently in receipt of the education maintenance allowance—in each year of the Mr Gibb: We do not anticipate that the cost to current spending review period: schools, colleges and training providers of administering the 16-19 Bursary Fund will be any greater, proportionally, £ million than those incurred in relation to the current discretionary 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 learner support fund. Schools, colleges and training Transitional 124.1 70.1 — — providers are able currently to use up to 5% of their support allocation of discretionary funds to meet the costs of 16-19 77 158.5 180 180 administering the scheme; this will continue following bursary fund the introduction of the 16-19 Bursary Fund. Byway of Total 201.1 228.6 180.0 180.0 comparison, the costs of administering the EMA scheme nationally are also around 5% of the total expenditure. Education Maintenance Allowance Further Education: Finance

Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what estimate he has made of the saving to Education what his assessment is of the effectiveness of the public purse of reducing to £20 education conditional cash transfer schemes in post-16 education. maintenance allowance payments for the 2010-11 [52920] intake of students in the top payment band. [52669] Mr Gibb: The Department for Education has not Mr Gibb: We estimate that just over 210,000 young conducted a formal assessment of the general effectiveness people who received £30 a week EMA in 2010/11 will of conditional cash transfer schemes in post-16 education. remain in learning in 2011/12 and be eligible for the Evaluation and other evidence relating to the education £20 a week transitional payment for that academic year. maintenance allowance—an example of a conditional Given the typical numbers of payments received by cash transfer scheme—was considered in making the EMA recipients we estimate savings of around £56 million decision to end that scheme and introduce, from September in the 2011/12 academic year through the reduction of 2011, the new 16-19 Bursary Fund. the payment from £30 to £20. Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether 16 to 19 education bursaries will be Education how many students were enrolled on a paid directly to (a) the student or (b) a parent. [52921] course of study in 2009-10 will continue to receive the top rate of education maintenance allowance in the Mr Gibb: Under our proposed arrangements for the next academic year. [52670] 16-19 Bursary Fund, schools, colleges and training providers will have discretion to award bursaries to Mr Gibb: All students who received the maximum students in ways that best fit individual needs and education maintenance allowance (EMA) for the first circumstances. We expect that, as under current learner time in 2009/10 and who remain in eligible education or support arrangements, support will usually be given training in 2011/12 will continue to receive that level of directly to students. 1141W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1142W

Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) how many and what proportion of GCE A-level Education what the average household income is of students were entered for at least one GCE A-level in those who will receive a full bursary from his (a) accounting, (b) art and design, (c) business Department’s 16-19 education fund who are in care. studies, (d) communication and culture, (e) dance, (f) [52925] design and technology, (g) drama/theatre studies, (h) electronics, (i) film studies, (j) home economics, (k) Mr Gibb: Young people in care will receive a bursary information and communication technology, (l) law, of £1,200 a year under the new arrangements. The (m) media studies, (n) music technology, (o) sports Department does not hold information regarding their studies, (p) travel and tourism and (q) environmental household income and we do not expect providers to studies in (i) comprehensive schools, (ii) selective ask for evidence of household income for young people schools, (iii) independent schools and (iv) sixth form in this vulnerable group. colleges (A) nationally and (B) in each local education Further Education: Free School Meals authority area in the last year for which figures are available; [53099] Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) how many and what proportion of GCE A-level Education how many and what proportion of children students were entered for at least two GCE A-levels in (a) in receipt of and (b) not in receipt of free school (a) accounting, (b) art and design, (c) business meals went on to further education in each local studies, (d) communication and culture, (e) dance, (f) authority area in each year since 2001. [53725] design and technology, (g) drama/theatre studies, (h) electronics, (i) film studies, (j) home economics, (k) Mr Gibb: The tables providing estimates of the number information and communication technology, (l) law, and percentage of young people who went on to further 1 (m) media studies, (n) music technology, (o) sports education at academic age 16 , by local authority and studies, (p) travel and tourism and (q) environmental free school meals (FSM) status in year 11, for each year studies in (i) comprehensive schools, (ii) selective between 2002/03 and 2009/10 have been placed in the schools, (iii) independent schools and (iv) sixth form House Libraries. The figures are based on young people colleges (A) nationally and (B) in each local education in state-funded schools at age 15 for whom FSM status authority area in the last year for which figures are was known. The allocation to local authority is also available; [53100] based on the school attended at age 15. 1 (4) how many and what proportion of GCE A-level Academic age is defined as age at the start of the academic year. students were entered for at least three GCE A-levels Academic age 16-year-olds are usually in their first post-compulsory year. from (a) accounting, (b) art and design, (c) business studies, (d) communication and culture, (e) dance, (f) Two sets of tables are provided, based on slightly design and technology, (g) drama/theatre studies, (h) different definitions of further education. The first set electronics, (i) film studies, (j) home economics, (k) of tables (1a and 1b) shows the number and proportion information and communication technology, (l) law, of young people who go on to full-time education at (m) media studies, (n) music technology, (o) sports academic age 16. The second set (2a and 2b) shows studies, (p) travel and tourism and (q) environmental participation based on a wider definition of further studies in (i) comprehensive schools, (ii) selective education that includes anyone studying for a qualification schools, (iii) independent schools and (iv) sixth form at academic age 16—which will additionally include colleges (A) nationally and (B) in each local education those in part-time study and Apprenticeships. authority in the last year for which figures are available. The estimates are derived from the Department for [52961] Education’s “Young People’s Matched Administrative Dataset” (YPMAD), which links several sources covering Mr Gibb [holding answer 28 April 2011]: The information student attainment and participation between 16 and requested has been placed in the House Libraries. 19. The YPMAD is not the source of the Department’s official estimates of post-16 participation, but has been GCSE used in this instance because it has information on learners’ FSM status from year 11. Data prior to 2002/03 John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for is not available. Education how many GCSEs undertaken by students GCE A-level in year 9 were included in school league table results for 2010. [52942] Elizabeth Truss: To ask the Secretary of State for Education (1) how many and what proportion of GCE Mr Gibb: All qualifications awarded to pupils by the A-level students were entered for GCE A-level (a) end of Key Stage 4 (KS4) in 2009/10 are included in the accounting, (b) art and design, (c) business studies, 2010 School Performance Tables. (d) communication and culture, (e) dance, (f) design Of the qualifications included in the 2010 tables for and technology, (g) drama/theatre studies, (h) pupils who had completed KS4 studies that year, the electronics, (i) film studies, (j) home economics, (k) equivalent of 106,889.7 GCSEs were taken in the academic information and communication technology, (l) law, year 2007/08. 36,978.5 of these are accounted for by (m) media studies, (n) music technology, (o) sports short, full and double GCSEs courses, the others were studies, (p) travel and tourism and (q) environmental equivalent qualifications such as BTECs. studies in (i) comprehensive schools, (ii) selective Some of these qualifications taken early may have schools, (iii) independent schools and (iv) sixth form subsequently been discounted later by higher grade or colleges (A) nationally and (B) in each local education level achievements eg if a pupil re-sat a particular authority area in the last year for which figures are GCSE or obtained an AS level in the subject before the available; [53098] end of the Key Stage. 1143W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1144W

Music: Education funding, identified as “notional SEN”, of additional resources directly to nursery, primary and secondary schools to help them support children without SEN; Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for the costs of additional resources provision and units in mainstream Education what assessment he has made of the effects schools; of reductions in local authority funding on the provision of (a) music services, (b) music trusts and provision of a range of maintained special schools; (c) other local music education providers. [53266] fees for pupils at independent special schools and abroad; the costs of support for inclusion; Mr Gibb: On 7 February, in response to Darren the provision of the educational psychology service and of Henley’s review of music education, the Secretary of SEN specialist support services. State for Education, my right hon. Friend the Member It also includes a range of additional local authority for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), announced that the functions that impact on children with SEN, including overall level of funding for music education in 2011-12 child protection, therapies and other health-related services, is £82.5 million matching the level of funding to local parent partnership, guidance and information and authorities for music in 2010-11. He also guaranteed monitoring. that the application of a fairer funding formula would mean that no local authority will receive a cut in funding Students: Finance of more than 10% compared to the 2010-11 allocation and that this funding provided by the Department for Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Education could only be used to provide music education. Education whether the awarding of a guaranteed Beyond this funding, it is a matter for local authorities bursary to students defined as vulnerable will affect to determine their levels of funding for music education. their entitlement for Care to Learn funding. [53576] It is also a matter for local authorities to determine whether, using the total amount available for music, to Mr Gibb: The awarding of a guaranteed bursary of fund music services, music trusts, or other local music £1,200 to students from the most vulnerable groups will education providers. not affect their eligibility for support under the Care to Learn programme. Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how much funding he has allocated to implementing the national plan for music education. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT [53268] Afghanistan: Armoured Fighting Vehicles Mr Gibb: The Government will give details of music funding when we publish the national plan for music David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for education later this year. International Development how many armoured cars his Department (a) owns and (b) leases for use in Pupils: Dyslexia Afghanistan. [54612]

Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for international Education what guidance his Department issues to Development (DFID) in Afghanistan owns five armoured local education authorities on assessing dyslexia vehicles which are pooled with other HMG owned among pupils in schools. [54227] vehicles for use by British embassy staff in Kabul. DFID owns a further 13 armoured vehicles which are Sarah Teather: Guidance to local authorities on assessing assigned to specific projects and programmes. None of children with special educational needs, including those DFID’s armoured vehicles are leased for use in Afghanistan. with dyslexia, is given in the Special Educational Needs Departmental Legal Costs Code of Practice (2001). Further information and guidance for schools on recognising and supporting children with dyslexia is also given in online and DVD resources Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for provided as part of the Inclusion Development Programme. International Development how much his Department paid in (a) damages, (b) claimant costs and (c) defendant costs in respect of all civil claims brought Special Educational Needs against his Department in which the claimant was successful or the Department settled in each of the last Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for three years. [54631] Education what information his Department holds on the support provided by local authorities for children Mr Duncan: In answering this question, the Department with special needs. [54989] has assumed that the term ″civil claims″ refers to claims issued in England and Wales, in the courts of civil Sarah Teather: In 2010-11 local authorities planned jurisdiction (the High Court and the county courts). net expenditure on the provision of education for pupils The figures provided do not therefore include employment- with special educational needs (SEN) was £5,477,522,509. related claims pursued through the employment tribunals. This covers planned expenditure on special educational There have been no payments made by the Department provision and specialist support for pupils with statements for International Development for damages, claimant and provision for non-statemented pupils with SEN. It costs or defendant costs in respect of civil claims in any includes: of the last three years. 1145W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1146W

Departmental Pensions Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Development (DFID) is supporting a range of programmes Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for to stimulate investment in the renewable technologies International Development what proportion of his that can be life-changers for the world’s poorest people, Department’s budget he expects to be spent on staff including solar lamps. For example, in India we are pensions in each of the next five years. [54568] promoting solar lighting in remote rural areas through the Orissa Tribal Empowerment and Livelihoods Mr Duncan: The proportion of the total Department Programme. Under this pilot, tribal woman are trained for International Development (DFID) budget spent to fabricate and maintain solar lighting for homes, on staff pension contributions in 2010-11 is estimated schools and streets. A feasibility study has been prepared to be 0.21%. Future contributions will be dependent for scale-up in 400 non-electrified Indian villages. both on the level of contributions and the number of Additionally, we are also about to start a five-year staff making them. partnership with the Energy and Resources Institute which is focused on scaling up access to energy in Developing Countries: Maternity Services Indian rural areas, including solar lighting.

Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Export Credits Guarantee Department International Development what steps he plans to take as part of the G8 commitment to provide additional Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for funding for maternal and child health up to 2015 to International Development whether his Department address the global shortage of skilled birth attendants has provided information to the Export Credits and health workers. [54836] Guarantee Department (ECGD) on the effects on progress towards the Millennium Development Goals Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Government’s ‘Choices for of the operations of businesses supported by the Women’ Framework for Results outlines how the UK ECGD. [54370] will save the lives of at least 50,000 women during pregnancy and childbirth and 250,000 newborn babies Mr O’Brien: All applicants for Export Credits Guarantee by 2015. The framework has a focus on increasing Department (ECGD) support involving a low income access to skilled health workers and commits to supporting or heavily indebted country are required to assess a at least two million safe deliveries and ensuring long-lasting project’s contribution to the economic and social improvements in maternity services. development of the recipient country. The Department Department for International Development (DFID) for International Development (DFID) reviews this country programmes are currently finalising their proposal and checks the validity of the assessment. This operational plans for the next four years which will is in line with our commitment under the OECD, of contribute to the Framework for Results commitments. which further details can be found at: These plans are being released via the DFID website: http://www.oecd.org/department/ http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/Publications/?p=OP 0,3355,en_2649_34179_1_1_1_1_1,00.html and it is anticipated that this exercise will be completed For a list of projects assessed by DFID since summer by the end of May. 2006, I refer my hon. Friend to my answer of 29 March 2011, Official Report, column 318W,to the hon. Member Developing Countries: New Businesses for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford).

Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Overseas Aid International Development what support his Department provides to people in developing countries Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for to help set up their own businesses. [54839] International Development what criteria he applies to decisions on the grant of aid to developing countries. Mr O’Brien: The Department for International [54658] Development provides a range of support which helps people in developing countries set up their own businesses. Mr Duncan: The recently undertaken bilateral aid We are working on reform of developing countries’ review has refocused the aid programme in fewer countries investment climates to reduce the ’costs’ of doing business so that we can target our support where it will make the and increase the provision of loans and technical business biggest difference and where the need is greatest. As a skills to entrepreneurs and prospective business people. result, we will focus on programmes where the British For example UK aid has provided loans to 300,000 Government are well placed to make a significant impact. women from low-income communities in Pakistan to set up small enterprises and build their assets and World Bank: Coal Fired Power Stations supports a programme in Rwanda which has helped to cut the time it takes to register a business from 16 to Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for three days. International Development what his policy is on World Bank support for unabated coal-fired power stations. Developing Countries: Solar Power [54372]

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr O’Brien: The UK strongly supports the World International Development what steps his Department Bank’s proposed shift away from lending for coal-fired is taking to support the use of solar lamps in power stations towards cleaner energy sources where developing countries. [54373] there is a greater need for concessional lending. 1147W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1148W

We want to see the bank helping countries explore all United Kingdom voluntary contributions (2005-10) reasonable alternative options to coal before concluding Programme ¤ that it is the appropriate option. Where alternatives are 2005 HR Commissioner Office 47,349.05 not feasible we want to see efforts being made to ensure European Youth Foundation 7,174.63 the cleanest possible technology is used. Support to the programme 28,814.29 “Ballons rouges” Programme Moneyval 43,050.00 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE In-Service training programme 1,894.16 for educational staff Seminar on counterfeit 14,630.58 Anti-Semitism: Germany medicines 2005 GRECO 105,000.00 Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Total 247,912.71 and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received of levels of anti-Semitism in Germany since May 2010; what recent discussions he has had with his 2006 Anti-money laundering 43,551,00 measures German counterpart about anti-Semitism in Germany; Bern Convention 14,503.26 and if he will make a statement. [54848] HR Commissioner Office 25,335.75 Mr Lidington: I have not received any reports of In-Service training programme 26,123.00 anti-Semitism in Germany since May 2010, nor have I for educational staff had any recent discussions with my German counterpart European Youth Foundation 12,584.98 on this issue. Language policies 15,179.99 The UK is committed to fighting discrimination and Project “HEREIN” 29,907.50 intolerance. Combating all forms of racism remains an Total 167,185.48 important part of the Government’s human rights policy. In December 2010 we published the Government’s first 2007 HR Commissioner activities 42,859.20 progress update report on our work to take forward the Human Rights training of 71,281.79 recommendations of the 2006 all-party parliamentary Lawyers inquiry into anti-Semitism. In-Service training programme 10,481.06 for educational staff Chile: Press Total 124,622.05

Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 Activities for promoting the 62,532.48 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has effective observance and full made representations to the Government of Chile in enjoyment of Human Rights respect of journalists at the La Nacion newspaper. Modernisation of tools and 21,807.00 methods of the supervision of [54995] execution of the ECHR judgments Mr Jeremy Browne: We have not made any Total 84,339.48 representations to the Chilean Government on this matter. 2009 Enhance the Commissioner’s 20,277.68 capacity to respond rapidly to Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for actual or potential crisis Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent situations Promoting and monitoring 27,384.21 reports he has received on media plurality in Chile. biological diversity policies [54996] through the Bern Convention Total 47,661.89 Mr Jeremy Browne: There is a degree of concentration of media ownership in Chile, and the two main press 2010 Fight against discrimination 43,195.00 conglomerates (El Mercurio and La Tercera) manage Promoting and monitoring 11,325.03 more than 70% of the country’s newspapers. Nonetheless biological diversity policies Chile enjoys an independent press and functioning through the Bern Convention democratic political system which safeguards the rights Total 54,520.03 to freedom of speech, of expression and of the press. COE Commissioner for Human Rights: Finance Diplomatic Service Sajid Javid: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has for the and Commonwealth Affairs what voluntary future of his Department’s global diplomatic network. contributions the Government has made to the costs of [54216] the Council of Europe’s Commissioner for Human Rights in (a) 2010 and (b) each of the previous five Mr Lidington: Our plans for the future of the Foreign years. [51962] and Commonwealth Office (FCO) network are now being finalised. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Mr Lidington: The UK’s voluntary contributions are Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member given in the following table. for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), will make a statement 1149W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1150W to the House later this week. But there will be no The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth strategic shrinkage in our global presence. The FCO Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond network is an essential part of the UK’s economic (Yorks) (Mr Hague) has therefore encouraged British recovery and will continue to play a vital role in maintaining nationals to regularly check our travel advice, to monitor our influence in the world. the media carefully for local reactions, to be vigilant and exercise caution in public places, and to avoid Germany: Nazism demonstrations. He has also asked all our embassies and high commissions overseas to review their security Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and to make sure that vigilance is heightened. and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has received on neo-Nazi activity in Germany; and if he Pakistan: Politics and Government will make a statement. [54842] Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Lidington: I have not received any recent reports Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent on neo-Nazi activity in Germany. assessment he has made of the political situation in Pakistan. [54522] Osama bin Laden Alistair Burt: The Prime Minister’s statement on Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for 3 May 2011, Official Report, columns 453-55 set out Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment some of the Government’s assessment of the situation he has made of the assistance provided to Osama bin in Pakistan. Laden by Pakistan in the past five years. [54520] Pakistan is one of this Government’s most important foreign policy, defence and development priorities. A Alistair Burt: Pakistan has made huge sacrifices—both stable, prosperous and democratic Pakistan, at ease military and civilian—in the fight against terrorism. with its regional neighbours and equipped with the will Both Pakistan and the UK have benefitted from recent and capacity to tackle violent extremism, is of direct action against militants taken by Pakistan. As the Prime and critical importance to the security of the UK and Minister has already made clear, “searching questions” its interests. will need to be asked about what sort of support system Pakistan is currently dealing with major domestic Bin Laden had in Pakistan, and we need those questions challenges, including how to: tackle a large militant answered. We would call on Pakistan to use Osama Bin insurgency in its border regions; achieve democratic Laden’s death as an opportunity to bring greater stability and economic reform; and recover from the aftermath and peace to Pakistan; and for Pakistan to make even of last year’s devastating floods. In addition, the greater strides in the fight against militancy. Government of Pakistan are now grappling with the aftermath of the death of Osama Bin Laden. We will Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for work with Pakistan’s coalition Government in facing Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs at what time he these challenges. was notified of the US military operation against Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad; and whether his Pakistan’s relationship with Afghanistan is pivotal to Department was involved in any aspects of the UK interests there. We are working with Pakistan to planning or execution of the operation. [54521] achieve our shared goals of lasting stability and security in Afghanistan. As the Prime Minister said in his statement Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and on 3 May 2011: Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member “The death of Bin Laden provides a new opportunity for for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), was made aware of Afghanistan and Pakistan to work together to achieve stability on the US operation against Osama bin Laden soon after both sides of the border”. the Prime Minister was informed, early on the morning Pakistan’s relationship with India is also crucial for of Monday 2 May 2011. The UK works very closely stability in the region. We welcome recent contact and with the US military and intelligence services but we discussions between India and Pakistan, including during had no involvement in the planning or execution of this the cricket World Cup semi-finals in Mohali. The pace, operation. scope and substance of dialogue is for the two countries to decide. Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Pakistan is a partner in tackling militancy, terrorism Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he and extremism. We pay tribute to the sacrifices of plans to take to prevent any reprisal attack on UK ordinary Pakistanis and the members of the Pakistani interests overseas following the death of Osama bin armed forces, and the courage they have shown in Laden. [54523] tackling violent extremism. This is a shared fight, in which Pakistan is on the front line. We offer Pakistan Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office our full support. constantly reviews the threat of international terrorism to British nationals and UK interests overseas, working Zimbabwe: Politics and Government closely with the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre (JTAC), security and intelligence agencies and our network of Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for overseas posts. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what also contributes to the cross-Government effort to reduce representations he made to the Vatican City State the risk of terrorism. However, we cannot rule out the authorities in respect of the EU travel ban on President possibility that al-Qaeda and its affiliates will attempt Mugabe and other representatives of the Zimbabwe acts of reprisal. regime; and if he will make a statement. [54537] 1151W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1152W

Mr Bellingham: The Holy See is not a member of the support this process. The Chair of the National Allied EU. It conducts its own foreign policy and has a bilateral Health Professional Advisory Board is a member of the relationship with Zimbabwe. The UK did not make Public Health Workforce Strategy Group. representations to the Holy See over President Mugabe’s Following the end of the White Paper consultation travel on this occasion. period, the Department continues to involve the full Italy is bound by the Lateran treaty not to inhibit the range of health professionals, representatives of voluntary passage of official visitors to the Vatican. The visa sector and the public in developing new public health issued by Italy to President Mugabe was time-limited arrangements. The Department regularly publishes updates for the event in question and valid only for Italian on its proposals and plans on the Department’s website territory. Our ambassador in Harare did however discuss and writes directly to national health service organisations, this issue with his Italian colleague and other counterparts local government and others. to ensure consistency with the EU Common Position. Aspartame

HEALTH Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether his Department plans to commission research Allied Health Professions to investigate a potential relationship between levels of aspartame consumption and adverse health reactions Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Health in children. [54801] (1) what plans he has for the involvement of representatives of the allied health professions in (a) Anne Milton: We are advised by the Food Standards commissioning and (b) service provision of public Agency (FSA) that aspartame has been extensively health at local level following the transfer of public tested and reviewed for safety by independent experts at health responsibility to local government; and if he will national, European and international level and found make a statement; [54477] to be safe at current levels of use. Despite this, some (2) what account he plans to take of the role of allied people consider they react badly to consuming the health professionals in public health in preparing sweetener. The FSA has therefore commissioned a pilot advice and guidance to local government on their new study focusing on people who have self-reported bad responsibility for public health; and if he will make a reactions to the sweetener in order to understand why statement. [54478] this is the case. Participants in the study will be at least 18 but the results should be applicable to people of any Anne Milton: Our plans are for Directors of Public age. Health to have responsibility for leadership on public health at a local level and, through partnership working Blood: CJD and collaboration with key partners, for example allied health professionals, local authorities will be able take Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for innovative approaches to promoting and protecting the Health what estimate his Department has made of the health and well-being of their local communities. number of people who have contracted variant A wide range of professions, including allied health Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease as a result of receiving (a) professionals, play a very important role in public health. contaminated blood via blood transfusion and (b) The Department will ensure that any advice and guidance non-leucodepleted contaminated blood via blood to local authorities on these new responsibilities reflects transfusion. [54618] the multidisciplinary nature of public health. Anne Milton: There have been three cases of clinical variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) presumed to Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Health be associated with blood transfusion. These have occurred what account he has taken of the role of allied health in people who have received blood transfusions from professionals in public health in preparing for the donors who themselves went on to develop clinical transfer of public health responsibilities to local vCJD after they had made the blood donation. None of government; and if he will make a statement. [54479] these patients were transfused after 1999, and all received Anne Milton: We have enjoyed good involvement non-leucodepleted blood. with representatives from key allied health professional bodies. Departmental officials working on public health Blood: Contamination commissioning, funding and outcomes policies met with Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for colleagues from the Royal College of Speech and Language Health what recent discussions he has had with (a) Therapists, and the British Dietetic Association who ministerial colleagues and (b) others in his together represented the Allied Health Professionals Department on the implications of Lord Archer’s Federation. Following this meeting, responses were report on contaminated blood and blood products in submitted by a number of allied health professional respect of compensation for future recipients of representative bodies to the consultation on the public contaminated blood. [54619] health White Paper and associated documents. This consultation closed on 31 March and we will take the Anne Milton: The Archer Inquiry restricted itself to views expressed by these and all other stakeholders into investigating the events in the 1970s and 1980s that led consideration. Government’s response to the consultation to the infection of haemophilia patients and others with will be published in the summer of this year. The HIV and/or hepatitis C by national health service supplied Government are committed to developing a public health contaminated blood or blood products, and made work force strategy for consultation in autumn 2011 recommendations regarding financial support only to and have established a working group to advise and those infected at that time. 1153W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1154W

We have discussed the implications of Lord Archer’s wider social partner responses (such as those of the report in the light of provisions that should be made for European Centre of Enterprises with Public Participation people who contracted HIV and/or hepatitis C from and of Enterprises of General Economic Interest and contaminated blood. the European Hospital and Healthcare Employers’ Association). CJD The NHS European Office are members of the Working Time Directive stakeholder group co-chaired by the Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for Department and BIS. This group has convened to review Health how many people died from variant the proposals put forward by the European Commission Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in England in each of the as part of its second stage consultation on Working last five years. [54620] Time. Ensuring service rotas are compliant and assessing Anne Milton: The National Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease the effects implementation of the directive is having on Research and Surveillance Unit (NCJDRSU) has provided patients and staff is the responsibility of individual the following information about deaths from variant NHS trusts. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD). This information is available on NCJDRSU website at: In response to concerns about the directive, Medical Education England (MEE) commissioned an independent www.cjd.ed.ac.uk review chaired by Professor Sir John Temple. The review’s United Kingdom definite and probable vCJD deaths 2005 to 2010 findings concluded that high quality training can be Number of Deaths delivered in 48 hours but traditional models of training 2005 5 and service delivery waste training opportunities and will need to change. Additionally, it demonstrates that 2006 5 far more can be done to improve medical training by 2007 5 changing working practices and taking advantage of 2008 1 the increase in consultants working in the NHS. 2009 3 2010 3 The Secretary of State for Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire Doctors: Working Hours (Mr Lansley), has asked MEE to take the lead in implementing changes to improve training practices in line with the aspirations in Sir John Temple’s report Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for ‘Time for Training’ (2010). In response, MEE is taking Health (1) what recent discussions his Department has forward a detailed implementation plan, ‘Better Training, had with the NHS European Office social partner on Better Care’. the effects of the European Working Time Directive on (a) hospital doctors and (b) acute medical staff; [54376] Health Professions: Higher Education (2) what recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health on the future implementation of the European how many places at each university in England NHS Working Time Directive for (a) hospital doctors and London commissioned for nursing and allied health (b) acute medical staff; [54452] professional education in (a) pre-registration education, (b) post-registration education and (c) (3) what recent assessment he has made of the effects continuing professional education in (i) 2009-10 and on (a) patient care and (b) staff performance, welfare (ii) 2010-11; how many such places he expects there to and training of the implementation of the European be in (A) 2011-12, (B) 2012-13 and (C) 2013-14; and if Working Time Directive for hospital doctors and acute he will make a statement. [54978] medical staff; and if he will make a statement. [54455] Anne Milton: Information on nursing, midwifery and Mr Simon Burns: I and departmental officials work allied health professional places at universities is not very closely with the Department for Business, Innovation collected by the Department. It is the responsibility of and Skills (BIS) on the application of the Working strategic health authorities to individually manage contracts Time Directive to the United Kingdom Healthcare with higher education institutions based on local workforce sector, meeting as appropriate. This directive is once planning and education commissioning decisions. The again being considered by the European Commission hon. Member may wish to contact NHS London for the and both Departments agree that we should pursue information requested. discussions in Europe with the intention of maintaining the individual’s right to opt-out of the 48 hour working week while seeking greater flexibility particularly in the Heart Diseases: Health Services areas of on-call time and compensatory rest. This strategy is in-keeping with the commitment in the Coalition Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Agreement to work to limit the application of the what steps the Government are taking to improve the Working Time Directive. early detection and treatment of atrial fibrillation. The Department engaged with the national health [54802] service European Office as they formulated their response to the European Commission’s second stage Social Partner Mr Simon Burns: It is for local national health service consultation on Working Time and, also, when the commissioners to determine the needs of their populations NHS European Office provided their contribution to and ensure that appropriate services are available. 1155W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1156W

NHS Improvement is working with the NHS in Malaria undertaking a programme of work to improve the detection and management of atrial fibrillation. This Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Health includes: how many reported cases of malaria there have been in raising awareness of the condition by working closely with The the UK in the last 12 months; what assessment he has Stroke Association who are planning a campaign on the subject made of rates of takeup of preventive medication for this year; malaria; and if he will make a statement. [54904] promoting the use of the Guidance on Risk Assessment and Stroke Prevention in Atrial Fibrillation (GRASP-AF) tool, which is designed to aid the identification of patients already known to Anne Milton: In 2010, 1,761 imported cases of malaria have atrial fibrillation who are at increased risk of stroke and not were reported. None were acquired in the United Kingdom. on warfarin; Malaria figures are published annually. commissioning improvements to the GRASP-AF tool to include 4,148,701 prescriptions for malaria medication were the latest clinical risk algorithms and the latest management dispensed in England in 2010. Medication used for options; and treatment and prevention cannot be separated, as many working with the National Patient Safety Agency to create an drugs are used for both purposes. No assessment of anti-coagulation guide. rates of take up of preventive medication for malaria The Department has also responded to the recent has been undertaken as it is not possible to establish National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence this. consultation on the quality outcomes framework with suggestions to revise the indicators promoting the evidence- Medical Equipment: Hygiene based management of the stroke risk in atrial fibrillation. Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Liphophilic Biotoxins Health what his Department’s policy is on the sterility of (a) medical and (b) in vitro diagnostic devices for Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the containment or culture of specimens. [54646] Health whether animals have been used for detection of liphophilic biotoxins in the UK since 10 January 2011; Anne Milton: The choice of devices for collecting or and if he will make a statement. [54611] culturing specimens is made locally. Sterility is not required for the containment or culture of all specimens. Anne Milton: We are advised by the Food Standards Agency (FSA), which has responsibility for the monitoring Multiple Sclerosis: Nurses of marine biotoxins in shellfish, that animals have been used for the detection of lipophilic biotoxins in the United Kingdom since 10 January 2011. Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps his Department plans to take to maintain This testing is required by European Union legislation the level of specialist nurse services for multiple to protect consumers from the risk of diarrhetic shellfish sclerosis. [54800] poisoning. However, recent changes to the legislation require member states to use an alternative chemical Paul Burstow: Specialist nurses provide an important method by 31 December 2014. The FSA has advised source of support and advice to patients with multiple that a chemical method has been validated and will be sclerosis and enable many patients to manage their implemented as soon as technical issues associated with condition effectively. It is the responsibility of local the practical application of the method have been resolved. health bodies to make decisions on the funding of They expect to implement the new method by autumn multiple sclerosis nurse posts. this year. Lyme Disease Muscular Dystrophy

Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps his Department is taking to raise public what progress has been made by the NHS East of awareness of the risks associated with Lyme disease England Specialised Commissioning Group in and other tick-borne infections. [54790] recruiting and appointing three neuromuscular care advisors for the region; and if he will make a statement. Anne Milton: The Health Protection Agency (HPA) [54780] issues an annual press release to raise public awareness of ticks, tick bites and Lyme disease. The press release, Paul Burstow: I refer the hon. Member to the written issued this year on 14 April, is aimed at those living in answer I gave the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob or visiting areas where ticks are present, and gives Russell) on 3 May 2011, Official Report, column 704W. advice on prevention of tick bites and what to do if you Further to that answer, we are advised that the posts are bitten. This complements advice for the public and will be advertised with a view to suitable candidates clinicians published on the HPA’s website. commencing the roles by the end of summer 2011. The HPA has also produced a leaflet in conjunction with The Royal Parks and New Forest District Council NHS: Sustainable Development on ticks and Lyme disease. The leaflet gives information on identifying ticks, tick removal, Lyme disease symptoms David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for and prevention of tick bites. It is available at: Health what the cost to the public purse was of the www.royalparks.org.uk/docs/richmondpark/ NHS sustainable development unit in the last year for Tick%20Leaflet%20%20final%20April%202010.PDF which figures are available. [54433] 1157W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1158W

Mr Simon Burns: The NHS Sustainable Development how they will meet these financial requirements while at Unit is hosted by the East of England Strategic Health the same time ensuring the quality of its services meets Authority. Departmental officials have been advised by national standards. the strategic health authority that the annual expenditure Work on the Tripartite Formal Agreement between of the NHS Sustainable Development Unit for the St Helens and Knowsley Hospitals NHS Trust, North financial year 2010-11 was £505,706. This is the most West strategic health authority and the Department has recent financial year for which figures are available. not yet been completed. When it has been finalised and the agreement has been signed by all parties, the trust Organs: Donors will publish the agreement on their website. The agreement will identify the issues the trust faces and the actions Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for that will establish them as sustainable providers of high Health what steps his Department is taking to quality health care services. These developments will encourage people to join the Organ Donor Register. enable them to meet the demanding requirements needed [54617] to achieve FT status. Any proposals for service changes will be subject to the normal process of consultation. Anne Milton: NHS Blood and Transplant (NHSBT) Strokes undertakes a variety of activities, working with a number of partners in the private, public and third sectors to Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health encourage more people to join the organ donor register which primary care trusts (PCTs) are reviewing their (ODR). this includes national initiatives such as joining support for Life After Stroke Services; which PCTs the ODR when registering with a doctor. have reduced their support for such services for Earlier this year NHSBT ran a campaign targeted 2011-12; and what the size of any reduction is in each specifically at black and minority ethnic (BME) such case. [54987] communities highlighting the importance of people from black and Asian communities joining the ODR Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not and discussing their donation wishes with family members. held centrally. The campaign included a tour of shopping centres in areas with a high concentration of black and Asian Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health communities, visits to Hindu, Sikh and Muslim faith what guidance he provides to local authorities to organisations and places of worship, advertising on ensure their employees receive training in dealing with black and Asian television channels, radio stations and those who have communication difficulties following a newspapers, a social media campaign and a poster stroke; and if he will make a statement. [54988] display in community shops and outlets. NHSBT is also working in partnership with the Paul Burstow: It is the responsibility of individual Department for Transport and the Driver and Vehicle social care employers (including local authorities) to Licensing Agency prompting people to make a choice ensure that their staff are appropriately trained for the about joining the ODR when applying for their driving work that they do. This may involve partnership working licence on-line. If successful the approach may be rolled with the national health service. The Department encourages out to other areas. employers to upskill their existing staff to improve standards within social care. During National Transplant Week, an annual event to be held 4-10 July 2011, NHSBT will work with Skills for Care, the Sector Skills Council, provides partner organisations to plan activity under the theme training materials in communications skills for all social of “what are you waiting for?”. The campaign will care staff. These are included within the Common Induction highlight how quick and easy it is to join the ODR. In Standards. Social Care Institute for Excellence has also the Department of Health in June 2011, donation events produced a module on verbal communications on Social in London and Leeds will answer questions about donation Care TV—a Department funded e-learning resource for and encourage Department of Health staff to join the social care staff. Organ Donor Register. Tobacco

St Helens and Knowsley Health Authority Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make it his policy to require that Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for organisations which engage with his Department on Health what representations the North West Strategic tobacco control issues disclose whether they are linked Health Authority has received from St Helens and to or receive funding from (a) the pharmaceutical Knowsley Hospitals NHS Trust on (a) the financial industry and (b) the public purse. [54656] conditions the Trust has been required to meet in order to become a foundation trust and (b) the potential Anne Milton: The Government are under obligation effect of such conditions on patient services. [55022] to protect tobacco control from the vested interests of the tobacco industry, under The World Health Mr Simon Burns: Monitor (the Independent Regulator Organisation’s Framework Convention on TobaccoControl. of NHS foundation trusts) wrote to national health Our policy on this is set out in Chapter 10 of “Healthy service trusts, foundation trusts (FTs) and strategic Lives, Healthy People: A Tobacco Control Plan for health authorities to set out its revised financial assumptions England”. This does not extend beyond the tobacco on 27 April 2011. All NHS trusts applying for FT status industry and the Department, as with all other policy will, as part of their application, be required to demonstrate areas, engages with a wide range of stakeholders including 1159W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1160W the pharmaceutical industry, organisations in receipt of Consolatory payments are compensatory amounts paid to funding from the pharmaceutical industry and organisations parents on an ex-gratia basis where delays or administrative in receipt of funding from the public purse. errors have resulted in lower than expected service standards. Compensation payments for lost interest are also classed as a A copy of the plan has already been placed in the consolatory payment. Library. The following table details the volume and value of Consolatory Payments (including interest payments) made in each of the last WORK AND PENSIONS five years; including the average sum paid in each year. This information is published in the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Child Care Tax Credit Commission’s Annual Report and Accounts. Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Consolatory Pensions what estimate his Department has made of payments— Consolatory the number of households (a) with parents who are Value (£ payments— Average reliant on formal child care in order to work but whose Financial year million) Volume payment (£) child care costs will be higher than the amount 2006-07 3.709 15,420 241 allocated for child care within universal credit, (b) with 2007-08 4.729 14,456 327 parents with children who will be subject to the overall 2008-09 4.341 14,878 292 benefit cap and (c) with parents with children who will 2009-10 3.006 12,070 249 be affected by both (i) high cost child care and (ii) the 2010-111 L787 7,879 227 benefit cap. [53715] 1The 2010/11 figures are unaudited and therefore may be subject to change. I hope you find this answer helpful. Maria Miller: The Government have announced that support for child care costs will be provided in universal credit by an additional element, and we are considering Children: Maintenance what rates to set. We will match the same total amount of funding as in the current system, and are looking at Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for how best this support can be allocated. In particular, we Work and Pensions how many responses his would like child care to support all working parents, so Department received to its consultation Strengthening that those working under 16 hours can benefit. We are families, promoting parental responsibility; and how looking at different options and will be discussing them many of these were from (a) parents, (b) third sector with stakeholders. organisations and (c) others. [53822] We estimate that approximately 50,000 households are likely to be impacted by the introduction of the Maria Miller: We have received a total of 652 direct benefit cap of which about 95% will include children. responses to the consultation exercise. Of these: The estimated number of households affected by the 578 responses were from individual members of the public; benefit cap is based on survey data using the Department 66 responses were from organisations, including third sector for Work and Pension’s Policy Simulation Model. Sample organisations; sizes are too small to yield reliable results from analysis six responses were from honourable Members; and of child care costs incurred by those households affected two responses were from noble Lords. by the benefit cap. In addition we have received a further 368 letters from hon. Members. Child Support Agency Duncan Hames: To ask the Secretary of State for Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many consolatory payments in Work and Pensions with reference to the Government respect of errors and maladministration were made to Response to the Work and Pensions Committee’s Third clients by the Child Support Agency in each of the last Report, Session 2009-10, on the Child Maintenance five years; what the total amount paid out in and Enforcement Commission and the Child Support consolatory payments was in each such year; and what Agency’s Operational Improvement Plan, if he will the average sum offered to clients as consolatory provide details of the range of people recruited from payments was in each such year. [53826] the private and voluntary sectors to assist the Commission to ensure that the future scheme learns Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement from the lessons of the past. [53823] Commission is responsible for the child maintenance system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement to write to the hon. Member with the information Commission is responsible for the child maintenance requested and I have seen the response. system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner Letter from Stephen Geraghty: to write to the hon. Member with the information In reply to your recent Parliamentary Questions about the requested and I have seen the response. Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the and Enforcement Commission. Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance many consolatory payments in respect of errors and maladministration Commissioner. were made to clients by the Child Support Agency in each of the You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, with last five years; what the total amount paid out in consolatory reference to the Government Response to the Work and Pensions payments was in each such year; and what the average sum Committee’s Third Report of Session 2009-10 on the Child offered to clients as consolatory payments was in each such year. Maintenance and Enforcement Commission and the Child Support [53826] Agency’s Operational Improvement Plan, if he will provide details 1161W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1162W of the range of people recruited from the private and voluntary Region—Scotland sectors to assist the Commission to ensure that the future scheme As at August each year: Cases in payment learns from the lessons of the past. [53823] 2003 284,300 One of the initial objectives when setting up the Commission was to recruit new talent, skills and thinking from other sectors 2004 295,000 primarily for head office functions including strategic planning 2005 303,700 and the design of the new child maintenance system. 2006 310,200 The job designs and reward packages for the roles on offer 2007 318,800 were developed to attract expertise from the private and voluntary 2008 327,400 sectors—salaries offered in line with market rates, relevant to the 2009 337,200 specific role rather, than a grade and inclusive of all benefits. The 2010 343,800 approach has been very successful in attracting the right people Note: with the skills needed. The total number of external recruits since Totals have been rounded to the nearest 1,000 and show the number of people November 2008, including temporary posts is 297 who have come in receipt of DLA, and exclude people with entitlement where the payment has from backgrounds including banking, insurance, management been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. consultancy and the infrastructure sector as well as the voluntary Source: August 1996 to August 2001: Department for Work and Pensions, Information sector. Directorate, 5% sample, (the proportions derived have been applied to the I hope you find this answer helpful. overall 100% total for DLA); August 2002 to August 2010: Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate, Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study. Departmental Buildings We are also unable to tell you how many people in Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland have since 1997 had their award reviewed Work and Pensions what the (a) name and (b) address under (a) the Benefit Integrity Project, (b) periodic is of each building owned by his Department; and what reviews and (c) the Right Payment Programme. Nor the estimated monetary value is of each such building. can we tell you how many of those reviewed had their [53812] award adjusted. This is because Management Information statistics have not been set up to go down to the level of Chris Grayling: DWP does not own any buildings. detail that would enable us to identify customers living The DWP estate was sold (freehold, feuhold and long in Scotland. leasehold interests) or transferred (short leasehold interests) to Telereal Trillium under a PFI contract known as “PRIME”. Disability Living Allowance: Autism The proceeds from the sale of Department of Social Security buildings were released to HM Treasury in Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for April 1998, and a further transfer occurred in December Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the 2003 when PRIME was expanded to include the number of people with autism who are in receipt of the Employment Service estate after the formation of the middle rate of disability living allowance. [54066] DWP. However for the hon. Member’s information I have Maria Miller: The information is not available in the attached a list of current DWP locations with post format requested. Such information as is available relating codes. This information will shortly be published on to learning difficulties is in the following table. Data.gov.uk via the Cabinet Office. Number of people in receipt of the middle care rate of disability living allowance Disability Living Allowance where the main disabling condition is learning difficulties—August 2010 All Middle Care Rate

Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for All 3,176,200 1,059,800 Work and Pensions how many people in Scotland have Learning 367,400 181,000 difficulties been in receipt of disability living allowance since 1992; Notes: how many of these have had their award reviewed 1. The preferred statistics on benefits are now derived from 100% data sources. under (a) the Benefits Integrity Project, (b) periodic However, the 5% sample data still provide some detail not yet available from the reviews and (c) the Right Payment Programme since 100% data sources, in particular, more complete information on the disabling condition of DLA claimants. DWP recommends that, where the detail is only 1997; and how many of those reviewed had their award available on the 5% sample data, or disabling condition (DLA) is required, the adjusted. [53617] proportions derived should be scaled up to the overall 100% total for the benefit. This has been done here. 2. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest hundred. Maria Miller: We are unable to tell you how many 3. Case load totals show the number of people in receipt of an allowance and people in Scotland have been in receipt of DLA since exclude those with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. 1992; records only go back to 1996. The information 4. Prior to October 2008 the codes used to record disabling condition for DLA that is available is in the following table: included a category called ″Learning Disability″ which includes the following disabling conditions: ‘F86’—’Down’s Syndrome’, ’F87’—’Fragile X syndrome’, Region—Scotland ‘F90’—’Other Learning Disability’, ’F91’—’Autism’, ’F92’—’Asperger Syndrome’, As at August each year: Cases in payment ’F94’—’Retts Disorder.’ 5. In October 2008, new codes were introduced which provided more detail with 1996 203,000 respect to disabling conditions. The ″Learning Difficulty″ group was separated ″ ″ 1997 222,900 out into six categories, one of which is Autism . 6. Codes for existing DLA claimants were not updated, so therefore the number 1998 232,700 of cases with new codes is extremely small compared to the total numbers in 1999 239,100 receipt of DLA. Therefore it is not yet possible to produce a reliable estimate of 2000 247,600 the total number of people claiming DLA with a main disabling condition of “Autism”. 2001 260,800 Source: 2002 271,100 Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate. 1163W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1164W

Disability Living Allowance: Parkinson’s Disease Steve Webb: The following tables contain tabulations of housing benefit and council tax benefit data by Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Government Office Region and benefit combination and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number (i.e. the number of claimants in receipt of either housing of claimants of disability living allowance in the North benefit, council tax benefit or both) since 2008. Earlier East who are diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease; and data held by the Department for Work and Pensions are what assessment his Department has made of the likely based on clerical returns from local authorities and do effect on claimants diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease not contain this level of detail. of proposed changes to disability living allowance. November 2008 [54287] HB only CTB only HB and CTB Maria Miller: The information is as follows: All 456,920 1,434,370 3,715,020 Number of people in receipt of disability living allowance in the North East North East 13,930 78,060 218,520 where the main disabling condition is Parkinson’s disease—August 2010 All North West 46,930 204,060 485,580

All 178,200 Yorkshire and 33,270 136,370 327,930 Humberside Parkinson’s disease 900 Notes: East 23,050 111,740 237,690 1. The preferred statistics on benefits are now derived from 100% data sources. Midlands However, the 5% sample data still provide some detail not yet available from the West 34,860 163,590 350,900 100% data sources, in particular, more complete information on the disabling Midlands condition of DLA claimants. DWP recommends that, where the detail is only available on the 5% sample data, or disabling condition (DLA) is required, the East of 34,530 120,920 284,390 proportions derived should be scaled up to the overall 100% total for the England benefit. This has been done here. 2. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest hundred. London 100,890 118,940 610,250 3. Case load totals show the number of people in receipt of an allowance and South East 61,880 142,860 377,560 exclude those with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. South West 41,730 119,610 258,130 Source: Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate, 5% sample. Wales 20,150 98,770 190,680

From 2013 we will introduce a new benefit, personal Scotland 45,700 139,450 373,420 independence payment, to replace disability living allowance for people of working age. Key to personal independence January 2009 payment will be a more objective assessment of individual HB only CTB only HB and CTB need. We have been developing our proposals for the new assessment in collaboration with a group of All 466,130 1,464,690 3,786,120 independent specialists in health, social care and disability. North East 14,210 80,160 222,550 The assessment will take account of needs arising North West 48,890 207,880 488,610 from physical, sensory, mental, intellectual and cognitive Yorkshire and 33,010 140,280 338,420 Humberside impairments. We believe it is right for the assessment to East 23,620 114,090 241,880 look at disabled people as individuals and not simply Midlands label them by their health condition or impairment. West 36,170 167,420 357,790 Therefore the assessment is being designed to consider Midlands an individual’s personal circumstances and the support East of 35,370 123,070 289,110 they need, rather than basing eligibility on any medical England condition. Before finalising the assessment criteria we London 103,860 121,350 615,200 will be testing them and assessing their impact. South East 62,600 146,690 388,070 South West 42,500 123,630 268,110 Housing Benefit Wales 20,980 100,420 192,960 Scotland 44,940 139,710 383,430 Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people in (a) England, January 2010 (b) the North East, (c) Teesside and (d) HB only CTB only HB and CTB Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland constituency claimed housing benefit in each of the last 10 years. All 519,990 1,545,710 4,131,120 North East 15,720 85,110 236,240 [47736] North West 53,260 219,050 535,040 Yorkshire and 37,640 151,240 364,420 Steve Webb: The information requested for Humberside Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland constituency East 27,550 121,520 269,460 is not available. Midlands A copy of the available information on HB recipients West 41,320 177,250 390,080 has been placed in the Library. Midlands East of 41,050 130,990 320,320 England Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work London 118,450 128,540 662,500 and Pensions how many people received (a) housing South East 70,150 156,970 430,900 benefit but not council tax benefit, (b) council tax South West 48,340 129,510 296,270 benefit but not housing benefit and (c) housing benefit Wales 21,320 105,250 210,660 and council tax benefit in each region in each year since Scotland 45,190 140,310 415,220 2007. [53403] 1165W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1166W

January 2011 The figure for recipients in work includes all non- HB only CTB only HB and CTB passported claims where either the claimant or their All 535,860 1,528,330 4,297,610 partner has declared any income from employment or North East 16,110 83,530 244,090 self employment. This excludes people who may be North West 55,780 218,500 556,230 doing some permitted work while in receipt of a passporting Yorkshire and 36,990 147,800 385,350 benefit (income-based jobseeker’s allowance, income Humberside support, income related employment support allowance East 28,000 120,410 280,520 or guarantee credit). Midlands West 42,380 175,570 402,820 Local Government Finance Midlands East of 41,530 130,530 333,590 Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and England Pensions how much each local authority received from London 124,560 125,630 691,640 each (a) revenue and (b) capital funding stream from South East 72,240 155,550 448,540 his Department in (i) 2010-11 and (ii) 2011-12; how South West 48,370 129,140 311,910 much funding his Department allocated from each Wales 22,030 104,390 219,000 such stream in each year; and what the change was in Scotland 47,870 137,290 423,920 the level of funding in each such stream between those Notes: years in (A) cash and (B) real terms. [49254] 1. The data refers to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. 2. The figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. 3. Figures for any non-responding authorities have been estimated. Steve Webb: The information has been placed in the 4. Housing benefit figures exclude any extended payment cases. Library. 5. SHBE is a monthly electronic scan of claimant level data direct from local authority computer systems. It replaces quarterly aggregate clerical returns. Social Fund The data are available monthly from November 2008 and January 2011 is the most recent available. 6. Council tax benefit figures exclude any single adult rebate cases. Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and 7. Figures are at the second Thursday in each month provided. Pensions what the level was of recovery of crisis loans Source: Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) in (a) cash and (b) percentage terms in each year from 2003 to 2010. [54150] Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what equality impact assessment he Steve Webb [holding answer 5 May 2011]: The undertook on the effect of the provisions of the information available is given in the following tables. Housing Benefit Regulations 2010 on people aged Information for 2010-11 will not be available until after the Secretary of State’s Annual Report on the Social between 25 and 34 years. [53970] Fund for 2010-11 has been published later this year. Steve Webb: An equality impact assessment has been Level of recovery of crisis loans in cash terms in each year from 2003-04 to 2009-10 in Great Britain carried out and will be published in May. Financial year Crisis loan recovery (£ million) Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and 2003-04 66.7 Pensions pursuant to the contribution of the Minister 2004-05 67.9 for Employment to the Public Bill Committee on the 2005-06 70.1 Welfare Reform Bill of 31 March 2011, Official Report, 2006-07 69.1 column 335, how many of the 3,500 families receiving 2007-08 66.5 more than £25,000 a year in housing benefit are 2008-09 83.1 employed; and how many such tenancies are occupied 2009-10 119.4 by (a) a couple with (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) three, (iv) Notes: 1. The information provided is management information. Our preference is to four, (v) five and (vi) more than five children under 18 answer all parliamentary questions using official/National Statistics but in this and (b) a lone parent with (A) one, (B) two, (C) three, case we only have management information available. It is not quality assured (D) four, (E) five and (F) more than five children to the same extent as official/National Statistics and there are some issues with the data, for example, they do not include applications which were processed under 18. [55021] clerically and have not yet been entered on to the social fund computer system. 2. Information for 2003-04 to 2009-10 is also published in the Secretary of State’s Annual Report on the Social Fund. Steve Webb: Of the 3,510 housing benefit claimants Source: under local housing allowance rules with a weekly DWP Social Fund Policy, Budget and Management Information System. award exceeding £481 per week (£25,000 if expressed as The information in the following table shows the an annual value), approximately 1,020 were in work, percentage of expenditure in each year recovered in 1,380 were couples with children and 1,920 were lone each of the subsequent years. For example, in 2003-04 parents with children. Data on the number of children 22.6% of the expenditure in that year was subsequently are not available. recovered within the same year.

Percentage Year of recovery Year of expenditure 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

2003-04 22.6 33.9 15.7 6.4 3.4 7.8 — 2004-05 — 21.1 33.6 15.3 6.0 4.0 11.6 2005-06 — — 20.4 32.7 14.3 6.6 5.3 1167W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1168W

Percentage Year of recovery Year of expenditure 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

2006-07 — — — 16.1 25.9 18.1 9.9 2007-08 ————13.424.219.8 2008-09 —————12.224.5 2009-10 ——————13.4 Notes: 1. The information provided is management information. Our preference is to answer all parliamentary questions using official/National Statistics but in this case we only have management information available. It is not quality assured to the same extent as official/National Statistics and there are some issues with the data, for example, they do not include applications which were processed clerically and have not yet been entered on to the social fund computer system. 2. From April 2006 policy changes were made to the Loans scheme which included changes to recoveries. The changes made were to reduce the highest of the loan repayment rates of 15% and 25% to 12% and 20% respectively and increase the period of time in which a loan can be repaid. 3. Not all expenditure is recovered within five years and while recovery is still made after five years, it is not possible to break this down further. Source: DWP Social Fund Policy, Budget and Management Information System.

Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work £350 per week for single adult households. War widows and Pensions what recent discussions he has had with and widowers, households which include a member Ministers in the Welsh Assembly Government on who is receiving disability living allowance or constant proposals to localise the Social Fund. [54290] attendance allowance, and working households claiming the working tax credit will be exempt from the cap. Steve Webb: The social fund is not being localised. If the benefit cap were applied in full, as described in The Welfare Reform Bill includes proposals to abolish the supporting documentation for the spending review, the discretionary social fund. It will be replaced with a the savings to the Exchequer are estimated to be £225 million combination of locally designed and targeted assistance in 2013-4, £270 million in 2014-5 and £270 million in for the most vulnerable in the community and a modernised 2015-16. and simplified national system of payments on account accessed through the benefit system. Social Security Benefits: Strokes Lord Freud, Minister for Welfare Reform, has recently spoken to Leighton Andrews, Minister for Children, Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Education and Lifelong Learning in the Welsh Assembly and Pensions what training is provided for staff dealing Government to discuss our welfare reform proposals, with benefits and employment to ensure that they including the new local assistance. understand the needs of people who have suffered a stroke. [54990] Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what recent representations he has Chris Grayling: The Department of Work and Pensions received on the planned abolition of the post of Social (DWP) policy is to develop its staff in the skills required Fund Commissioner. [54291] to support a range of customers and to respect their individual needs. This approach ensures that they are Steve Webb: I have discussed the abolition of the post equipped to deal with a diverse set of circumstances of the social fund commissioner with the commissioner while treating customers as individuals. himself. The learning programme for Jobcentre Plus focuses A number of organisations have raised the issue of on raising awareness of the customer’s personal disputes handling for the new local assistance that will circumstances and also recognises that disabilities and replace community care grants and crisis loans for health conditions can affect individuals in different general living expenses. ways and will change over time. The commissioner’s statutory role is to appoint and All Jobcentre Plus staff receive foundation learning train inspectors to provide a second tier independent which covers excellent customer service, diversity and review of discretionary social fund decisions. The proposed customer needs. These deal with the wide range of abolition of the post of the social fund commissioner circumstances that our customers may have, some less will be a direct consequence of the abolition of the obvious than others, and stress how important it is to discretionary social fund. look for signs where the customer does not give us this information directly and to offer appropriate support. Social Security Benefits In particular for Advisers the learning has placed a greater emphasis on the need for personalisation and Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and flexibility to enable advisers to build strong relationships Pensions what estimate he has made of the potential with customers. It includes Adviser Skills learning with savings to the Exchequer of implementing the a core series of Adviser Skills workshops, periods of proposed total household benefit cap in each financial supported workplace consolidation and knowledge and year from its implementation to 2015-16. [55024] procedural learning. The key messages throughout this learning focuses Steve Webb: The coalition Government announced on providing a personalised, flexible service to the customer on the spending review 2010 that household benefit and treating them as individuals. The learning provides payments would be capped from 2013 at around £500 per an understanding of why this approach is important; week for couple and lone parent households and around what it means to the customer; what it looks like and 1169W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1170W how it works in practice. It further supports the adviser rights under the Government’s proposals for pension to identify the range of customers and the level of reform. [55000] individual support they would need to provide and identify where more specialist help may be appropriate. Steve Webb: The Government’s consultation paper A This specialist help can come from our Disability state pension for the 21st century sets out two broad Employment Advisers who have extensive and specialist options for reform to simplify the state pension and learning in addition to the detail provided above. better support saving. In addition an extensive learning programme has The Government have made it clear that they would been developed to support the implementation of IB honour contributions to the current system during transition Reassessment. Training is being provided for Jobcentre to any new system and envisages that the savings credit Plus staff across Contact Centres, Benefit Centres and would be retained under option one (faster flat rating) Jobcentres. In recognition of the varied needs of the IB but would end under option two (single tier). reassessment customer group and the impact that the The Government are currently seeking views on both change will have on customers, the learning includes options for reform as part of the consultation process behavioural/cultural topics as well as the technical aspects and, as policy development is still underway, it is not required for the processing of benefits. possible to provide further detail at this stage. The PDCS deals with pension age customers and customers Government will provide further detail and a full assessment with disabilities, and includes the Local Service visiting of the impacts of any changes when it publishes more function, a function which has recently been extended detailed proposals for reform. to include visits to vulnerable customers on behalf of Jobcentre Plus. Welfare to Work In common with Jobcentre Plus, all PDCS staff are given foundation training in customer service, diversity Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for and communications according to learning requirements Work and Pensions how many people were enrolled in as part of their induction. Ongoing training and welfare-to-work schemes (a) in total and (b) in each development is provided throughout their career, as programme at the start of (i) 2010-11 and (ii) each of part of their ongoing performance and development, or the previous five financial years. [45148] on change of job. PDCS staff have access to training in Excellent Customer Chris Grayling: Following tables contain information Service and training on understanding the needs of on provision starts for the main welfare-to-work schemes customers who have disabilities. There is also a training for the last six financial years. It should be noted that package on communication barriers and the assistance information on every welfare-to-work scheme is not that can be arranged to resolve communication problems. collected centrally and doing so would incur disproportionate costs. Therefore the following data Local Service visiting staff are given awareness training only covers the key welfare-to-work schemes. on the needs of older people, include training in health and vulnerability, which covers strokes in particular. Welfare-to-work schemes have been split into three The learning package highlights empathy, diversity/equality categories; Intensive support; Less intensive support; and managing emotional responses. It also covers support and Jobcentre Plus led. services available to customers, while emphasising the Intensive Support need for an empowering approach to combat the negative New Deal programmes (spells in thousand) spiral which can increase dependency. This learning New Deal for young people New Deal for 25 plus package is currently being broadened to cover the needs of all age groups. 2005-06 168.53 82.01 To support future plans for business restructuring 2006-07 186.50 104.80 within the Local Service function, a learning intervention 2007-08 166.22 124.98 is currently being developed for telephony staff, which 2008-09 195.40 102.69 will cover understanding customers’ needs, vulnerability 2009-10 191.79 79.90 April 2010 33.13 39.81 and communication issues. to November State Retirement Pensions 2010

Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Flexible New Deal and Pensions (1) what his policy is on honouring (a) Financial year Starts existing and (b) future earnings-related pension entitlements under his proposed pension reforms; 2008-09 n/a 2009-10 149,820 [54997] April 2010 to January 2011 205,750 (2) what assessment he has made of the categories of Total 355,570 individual likely to be (a) better and (b) worse off as a result of the introduction of a single tier pension; Employment zones (spells in thousand) [54998] 18 to 24-year-olds Lone parents Aged 25 plus (3) what estimate he has made of the number of people likely to lose entitlement to savings credit under 2005-06 8.16 9.08 18.99 the Government’s proposals for pension reform; [54999] 2006-07 9.21 15.51 21.20 2007-08 9.30 16.81 22.12 (4) what estimate he has made of the number of 2008-09 10.06 18.19 19.84 people likely to be affected by reform of inherited 1171W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1172W

Employment zones (spells in thousand) DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER 18 to 24-year-olds Lone parents Aged 25 plus Members: Correspondence 2009-10 6.63 10.77 13.74 April 2.37 5.12 7.15 2010 to Kate Green: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister when October he plans to reply to the letter of 2 August 2010 from a 2010 constituent of the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston, Mr Charlie Donegan. [54387] The Deputy Prime Minister: My office deals with my Welfare to Work schemes—less intensive support correspondence in the most efficient way possible to ensure a comprehensive reply. It was for this reason that New Deal programmes (spells in thousand) Mr Donegan’s correspondence was passed to the New Deal for disabled people Department for Work and Pensions, as the relevant 2005-06 70.58 Department, for a full reply. A reply has now been sent 2006-07 63.41 to Mr Donegan. 2007-08 56.97 2008-09 36.94 2009-10 36.00 CABINET OFFICE April 2010 to November 2010 22.45 Departmental Legal Costs Provide led pathways to work Financial year Starts Mr Slaughter: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet December 2007 to March 2008 50,300 Office how much his Department paid in (a) damages, 2008-09 272,330 (b) claimant costs and (c) defendant costs in respect 2009-10 192,450 of all civil claims brought against his Department in April 2010 to July 2010 37,560 which the claimant was successful or the Department Total 552,640 settled in each of the last three years. [54640] Mr Maude: The information requested is available only at disproportionate cost. Welfare to work schemes—Jobcentre Plus led Manufacturing Industries New Deal programmes (spells in thousand) New Deal for lone New Deal for 50 New Deal for Jonathan Evans: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet parents plus partners Office what estimate he has made of the level of growth in the manufacturing sector in the last 12 months for 2005-06 155.30 24.17 2.29 which figures are available; and if he will make a 2006-07 134.36 16.98 2.25 statement. [54834] 2007-08 184.70 11.73 2.03 2008-09 186.49 9.26 2.18 Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the 2009-10 143.03 6.25 2.25 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority, I have April 113.10 3.43 1.69 2010 to asked the authority to reply. November Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated May 2011: 2010 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Jobcentre Plus Pathways have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question regarding Financial year Starts the level of growth in manufacturing in the latest 12 months. [54834] 2005-06 124,250 Figures from the Index of Production statistical bulletin published 2006-07 307,100 on the 6th April 2011 show that manufacturing output grew by 2007-08 337,130 4.9% in February 2011 when compared to February 2010. 2008-09 302,990 2009-10 323,620 Members: Correspondence April 2010 to July 2010 101,220 Total 1,606,910 Caroline Flint: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office when he expects the Cabinet Secretary to reply to the letters from the right hon. Member for Don Valley of 3 March and 4 April 2011 on the Audit Commission. [54915] Written Questions: Government Responses Mr Maude: The Cabinet Secretary replied to the right hon. Member today. Mr Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions when he plans to answer Questions 50232 Public Bodies: Reform and 50236, on community care grants, tabled on 28 March 2011 for answer on 30 March 2011. [54876] Tessa Jowell: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office pursuant to the written ministerial statement of Steve Webb: I replied to the hon. Member’s questions 16 March 2011, Official Report, columns 9-10WS, on on 9 May 2011, Official Report, column 1022W. public bodies reform programme, if he will (a) prepare 1173W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1174W and (b) publish a schedule setting out the contribution by each Department that informed the estimates I of each public body to the reduction in spending announced on 16 March 2011. These are estimates as of through public bodies. [54524] 16 March, expressed as real-terms cumulative totals over the spending review period. Mr Maude [holding answer 9 May 2011]: The following table sets out total reductions for the bodies sponsored

£ million Estimated cumulative Estimated cumulative admin programme spending Estimated cumulative capital reductions from public bodies reductions from public bodies spending reductions from Estimated total cumulative over SR period over SR period public bodies over SR period reductions over SR period

BIS 882.00 10,030.93 2,466.77 13,379.69 CO 9.71 59.97 8.00 77.68 CLG 168.62 280.73 12,962.55 13,411.9 Local government 60.54 0 0 60.54 DCMS 206.35 1,287.70 382.22 1,876.27 DECC 1— 1— 1— 1— DEFRA 269.51 446.27 509.87 1,225.66 DfE 673.88 1— 1— 673.88 DfID 1— 1— 1— 0.00 DH 67.00 1— 1— 67.00 FCO 2— 2— 2— 0.00 HMT 1— 1— 1— 0.00 MoJ (inc AGO) 86.46 1,486.70 47.7 1,620.85 HO (inc GEO) 131.16 383.14 189.77 704.07 MoD 1.59 0.00 0.00 1.59 DfT 21.59 1— 1— 21.59 DWP 17.95 -20.81 31.63 262.673 Total 2,596.36 13,954.63 16,598.51 33,383.39 1 Not provided 2 Minimal 3 DWP total reduction figure includes a £233.9 million reduction which has not been classified as admin or programme expenditure.

Third Sector We expect providers of affordable housing and local authorities to work closely to identify the level of provision Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet needed in their areas. Office what steps he is taking to (a) draw the attention The location, number and availability of affordable of and (b) encourage the involvement of hon. housing will be dependent on agreements between providers Members in identifying best practice in civil society. and the Homes and Communities Agency, in consultation [44449] with local authorities. The New Homes Bonus also rewards councils for the Mr Hurd: Both I and the Minister for the Cabinet building of new affordable housing. Office (Mr Maude) have taken steps to keep MPs abreast of developments on the big society. For example we recently published a written ministerial statement that Alcoholic Drinks set out the current position on development of the big society bank. In November last year I wrote to all MPs Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for and invited them to bring in VCSE groups from their Communities and Local Government how much his constituencies for open discussions and so far 29 such Department has spent on the contents of ministerial meetings have been held. drinks cabinets since 12 May 2010. [48406]

Robert Neill: Ministers in the Department for Communities and Local Government do not have drinks COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT cabinets. No expenditure has been undertaken under this administration. Affordable Housing: Wirral Audit Commission: Government Procurement Card Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps he has Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for taken to promote the development of more affordable Communities and Local Government how many housing in Wirral West constituency. [54414] Government Procurement Cards have been issued to Audit Commission (a) commissioners and (b) other Andrew Stunell: We are investing nearly £4.5 billion in staff in the last 24 months; and what the name is of new affordable housing to help deliver up to 150,000 each (i) commissioner and (ii) director who has used affordable homes between 2011-12 and 2014-15 in England. such a card during that period. [54511] 1175W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1176W

Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the Transaction date Supplier Amount (£) Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend 19 November B A Int-Dom 6.00 direct. 1252451458879 19 November Transpennine Exprs 2.90 Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 10 May 2011: Radisson Edwardian Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. 12 December Manchester 156.95 The Audit Commission has not issued any Government 17 December St Martins on the Isle 125.00 Procurement Cards to Commissioners. Three new cards were issued to other staff in the last 24 months. Only one of these cards 2009 was issued to a director and this was Eugene Sullivan, Chief Executive. The Chief Executive has used his card once in the time 29 January The Cinnamon Club 230.29 period. 19 May Air France 88.76 0572181224177 Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for 19 May www.Flybe.COCW3042 44.48 Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 24 June Corinthia Towers Hotel 528.37 answer of 26 April 2011, Official Report, column 02 July WP-Mal Maison Limi 84.00 195W, on the Government Procurement Card, what the (a) date of purchase, (b) gross amount and (c) Chief executive supplier was in respect of each transaction undertaken 2008 by the Audit Commission using the Government 29 September www.Ibahn.Com 15.00 Procurement Card in 2010-11. [54538] 9 October Hospitality Services 15.00 10 November Southern 22.80 Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the 19 November Nat Express E Cst 53.00 Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive 4 December Sofitel St. James 73.69 of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend 4 December Fredericks 108.56 direct. 8 December Hilton Hotel 206.05 Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 10 May 2011: 9 December Sofitel St. James 114.75 Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. 11 December Fredericks 153.79 The Audit Commission made changes to its purchase to pay 12 December Marriott 35.60 procedures in 2010 and reviewed GPC holders, usage and limits. 12 December Coq D’Argent 112.16 As a result of these changes, the total value of GPC transactions 15 December Jurys Birmingham 429.90 has reduced by 50 per cent in 2010/11. 16 December Indigo Restaurant 107.94 The detail of the transactions requested will be placed in the 18 December Lescargot 605.03 House of Commons Library. Please note that the date is the 18 December Sherpherd’s 105.75 statement date as the date of purchase is unavailable. 19 December Portland Spa Hotel 166.87 19 December The Butlers Wharf 147.54 Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for Chop Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 21 December Crowne Plaza 133.99 answer of 26 April 2011, Official Report, column 22 December Holiday Inns 259.25 195W, on the Government Procurement Card, which Audit Commission transactions on the Government 2009 Procurement Card in (a) 2008-09 and (b) 2009-10 29 January Arbutus Restaurants Lt 94.84 were made by each director and board member of the 29 January Bank Restaurant B001 94.56 Commission. [54539] 29 January Bank Restaurant B001 82.35 29 January Bonds Restaurant and 85.33 Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the Bar Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive 29 January OXO Tower Restaurant 101.53 of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend 29 January Quirinale Ltd 122.63 direct. 29 January Quirinale Ltd 108.00 Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 10 May 2011: 29 January Quirinale Ltd 101.25 29 January Roussillon 497.89 Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. 24 April Parliamentary Book 45.00 The following table lists transactions made on the Government Shop Procurement Card for 2008/09 and 2009/10 by the Audit Commission’s 5 May Quirinale 240.19 Chief Executive and Chairman. No other directors or Commissioners 15 May Coq D’Argent 90.00 hold cards. 11 June Le Cafe Anglais 108.06 No transactions were made between January and March 2010. 19 June The Don 109.46 29 June Shepherd’s 98.44 Transaction date Supplier Amount (£) 30 June Swisscom Internet 60.00 Chairman 22 July Albannack 92.81 2008 5 August Islington Pay and 7.30 Display 27 October Newquay Airport 5.00 23 September Marriott 15.00 6 November British -191.50 24 September Hakkasan 91.76 AIRW1252449202641 25 September Shepherd’s 73.13 12 November B A Int-Dom 349.80 1252451231894 1 October Hilton Hotel 90.45 12 November Newquay Airport 5.00 1 October Hilton Hotel 3.95 1177W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1178W

Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the Transaction date Supplier Amount (£) Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive 5 October Virgin (WC) Trains 193.50 of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend 6 October The Olive Press 52.00 direct. (Manchester) Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 10 May 2011: 8 October Jurys Manchester 620.00 Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. 21 October Hotel Du Vin 74.69 22 October Hilton 121.80 The payments to a) Coq d’Argent b) Quirinale and c) Albannach have already been published in our hospitality and expenses 22 October Holiday Inns 29.20 register on the Audit Commission’s website. They were for meetings 29 October Sofitel St. James 96.75 between senior Audit Commission staff and senior contacts at 2 November Quirinale 87.69 partner organisations. 29 December Parliamentary Book 59.35 Attendees were: Shop a) Coq d’Argent Steve Bundred, Chief Executive and Evan Davis, BBC. Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for b) Quirinale Communities and Local Government pursuant to the There were two dinners held at Quirinale. The first was attended answer of 26 April 2011, Official Report, column by Steve Bundred, Chief Executive, Michael O’Higgins, Chairman, 195W, on the Government Procurement Card, what the the Comptroller and Auditor General of the NAO and the purpose was of each purchase made by the Chairman of the NAO. Government Procurement Card by the Audit The second dinner was attended by Steve Bundred, Chief Commission from (a) Flying Flowers, (b) Art and Executive and HM Chief Inspector, Ofsted. Flowers, (c) Petals of Narborough, (d) Bunches c) Albannach Florapost, (e) Serenata Flowers, (f) Interflora and (g) Steve Bundred, Chief Executive and Director of Communications, other florists in 2009-10. [54579] Cabinet Office. The payment for d) Bank was for a dinner to bring together senior NHS and local government executives and partner inspectorates Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the to discuss the new Comprehensive Area Assessment framework. Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive Attendees were: of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend direct. Michael O’Higgins, Chairman Gareth Davies, Managing Director Local Government Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 10 May 2011: Karen McConnell—Central Region Director, Audit Commission Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. Stephen Hughes—CEO Birmingham City Council In common with many other employers, the Audit Commission John Polychronakis—CEO Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council operated a staff recognition scheme from 2007. This enabled Trish Haines—CEO Worcester County Council managers to recognise the exceptional contribution or achievement of employees by awarding a one-off non-cash recognition award Antoinette Jackson—CEO Cambridge City Council of between £20 and £50 per person. An employee could not Dr Sandy Bradbrook—CEO Heart of Birmingham Teaching receive more than one recognition award each year. The scheme PCT ended in March 2011. in the last year, out of a total of 2,000 Nick Hodgson—CEO Derby County Council employees, 150 primarily junior staff received an award at an average cost of £35. Peter West—Head of Commissioner Methods Care Quality Commission The purpose of the purchases was: The payment for e) Brasserie Blanc was for a meal for a team a) Flying Flowers—staff recognition scheme of 12 individuals under the Audit Commission’s staff recognition scheme. In common with many other employers the Audit b) Arts and Flowers—staff recognition scheme Commission operated a staff recognition scheme from 2007. This c) Petals of Narborough—flowers for reception at Leicester enabled managers to recognise the exceptional contribution or office for April, May and June 2009. We stopped buying flowers achievement of employees by awarding a one-off non-cash recognition for reception in July 2009. award of between £20 and 50 per person. An employee could not d) Bunches Florapost—gift for members of staff—fully reimbursed, receive more than one recognition award each year. The scheme and therefore at no cost to the public purse ended in March 2011. In the last year, out of a total of 2,000 employees, 150 primarily junior staff received an award at an e) Serenata Flowers—staff recognition scheme average cost of £35. f) Interflora—gift for member of staff—fully reimbursed (£36.98) The payments for f) Millbank Spice were for evening meals for and staff recognition scheme a number of Audit Commission staff staying overnight in London g) Other florists: Frosts & Landscapes—rental of a Christmas on business. tree for our main office. We did not rent or buy a Christmas tree in Because the information requested includes personal information, 2010. Eden Florists—flowers for the funeral of a member of staff. we have been unable to disclose the names of more junior staff who attended meals in e) and f) as this would be a breach of the first principle of the Data Protection Act. Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Departmental Legal Costs answer of 26 April 2011, Official Report, column 195W, on the Government Procurement Card, what the Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for purpose was of each meal purchase by the Audit Communities and Local Government how much his Commission using the Government Procurement Card Department paid in (a) damages, (b) claimant costs in 2009-10 at (a) Coq d’Argent, (b) Quirinale, (c) and (c) defendant costs in respect of all civil claims Albannach, (d) Bank, (e) Brasserie Blanc and (f) brought against his Department in which the claimant Millbank Spice; and who attended each such meal. was successful or the Department settled in each of the [54580] last three years. [54639] 1179W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1180W

Robert Neill: All litigation cases against the Department Robert Neill: The allocation for the North East England are managed by the Treasury Solicitors Department. To 2007-13 European Regional Development Fund answer this question, the Treasury Solicitors Department Competitiveness programme is ¤375.7 million. The total would be required to check through their records for the amount that has been committed is ¤238.1 million. last three years, separating our civil claims from other Therefore ¤137.6 million remains uncommitted. types of litigation, and separating out successful from I also refer the hon. Member to the written ministerial unsuccessful cases. This could be done only at statement of 3 February 2011, Official Report, columns disproportionate cost, and the Treasury Solicitors 48-49WS, on how we intend to improve the operation Department would charge this department for the work. and delivery of the European Regional Development Fund in England. Enterprise Zones Government Procurement Card: Local Government Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what discussions he had with (a) local authorities and (b) local Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for economic partnerships on the need for enterprise zones Communities and Local Government what steps the prior to the announcement on 23 March 2011 on Audit Commission has taken to encourage the use of enterprise zones. [51912] the Government Procurement Cards by local authorities. [54510] Robert Neill: Officials began discussion with local authorities and local enterprise partnerships about the Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the possible location of enterprise zones in March 2011. Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive This followed decisions by the Government about the of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend criteria that should be used to select local enterprise direct. partnership areas. Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 10 May 2011: Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for The Commission has not encouraged local authorities to use Communities and Local Government if he will take Government Procurement Cards. However, I note that The Office steps to ensure that landowners within enterprise zones of Government Commerce says it is working with Buying Solutions are prevented from receiving significant benefits. to improve the visibility, adoption and use of procurement cards [52729] across the public sector to help in meeting efficiency programmes, describing the GPC as ’the first choice for UK Government and Robert Neill: In earlier enterprise zones business rate UK public sector organisations…The GPC is an established and relief lasted for 10 years. This sometimes meant that, proven solution which has been selected and endorsed by the UK Government’. over time, rate reductions were passed on’ to landlords in the form of increased rents.. Historic Buildings: Planning Permission In the new generation of enterprise zones we are limiting business rate relief to 5 years. As the average lease is (around) 6.5 years—this will reduce the ability Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for of landowners to pass on business rate reductions into Communities and Local Government what assessment higher rents when leases are re-negotiated. he has made of the effects of reductions in local authority staffing levels on his Department’s ability to Enterprise Zones: Non-domestic Rates maintain the effective operation of Planning Policy Statement 5. [54852] Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate he Robert Neill: The Department has not carried out has made of the monetary value of business rates to be such an assessment. It is for individual authorities to retained by local authorities over the 25 years following decide how the resources available to them should be the establishment of the enterprise zones set out in The deployed in the light of priorities. Plan for Growth. [53133] Housing: Building Alterations Robert Neill: All business rate growth within the enterprise zone for a period of at least 25 years will be retained. The amount that authorities retain will depend Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for on a range of factors, including the location, size and Communities and Local Government if he will review nature of the successful bids. the category of dwellings that may have permitted development rights in order to include flats. [54026] EU Grants and Loans: North East Robert Neill: The Government have no current plans Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State to grant flats the permitted development rights which for Communities and Local Government pursuant to exist for dwellinghouses under Schedule 2, Part 1 of the the answer of 10 February 2011, Official Report, Town and Country Planning (General Permitted column 390W, on EU grants and loans: North East, Development) Order 1995 (as amended). what the monetary value is of the funding to the North A reason for excluding flats in this way is that the East England 2007-13 European Regional exercise of permitted development rights by a flat owner Development Competitiveness programme that could impact negatively on others within the same remains uncommitted. [54374] block. 1181W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1182W

Housing: Older People No grant agreement is yet in place and any funding awarded will be subject to a satisfactory funding agreement Heidi Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for which will be dependent on the quality of their final Communities and Local Government what business case. consideration his Department is giving to planning for the housing needs of older people in developing its Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for definition of sustainable development. [52993] Communities and Local Government (1) which organisations were consulted on the decision to select Robert Neill: The housing needs of older people are a the British Chambers of Commerce to lead a national material consideration for local planning authorities representative body for local enterprise partnerships; whether they are writing local plan policies or determining [54588] planning applications. In the summer we will be consulting (2) what the aims and objectives are of the new on the draft National Planning Policy Framework which national representative body for local enterprise is to replace all the current Planning Policy Statements partnerships; and if he will make a statement. [54589] and Planning Policy Guidance Notes. The framework is still being drafted, so I am not in a position to discuss Robert Neill: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I its contents. However, the Government will welcome gave, my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Mr Sanders) any comments in relation to the draft policies in respect and the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden) of planning for housing, including provision for older on 9 May 2011, Official Report, column 1035W. people. Non-domestic Rates Land: Databases Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the (a) Communities and Local Government what plans his mean and (b) median cost was of business rates to Department has for the supply of aerial photography businesses of each size category in the (i) and height data following the cessation of the Pan manufacturing, (ii) pharmaceutical, (iii) haulage, (iv) Government Agreement. [52743] construction, (v) retail, (vi) financial services, (vii) hospitality and leisure, (viii) accountancy, (ix) legal and Andrew Stunell: The Pan Government Agreement (x) IT and telecoms industries in the last five years for continues to provide aerial photography and height which figures are available. [52829] data. No decisions have been made on the future provision Robert Neill: The Department collects information for the supply of aerial photography and height data on total business rates revenue and number of hereditaments once the current contract ends. by local authority on the national non-domestic rates forecast and outturn forms. However, this information Local Enterprise Partnerships is not split by size of business or by industry categories. Since the Department does not collect individual Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for hereditament data, it is not possible to calculate median Communities and Local Government on how many averages. occasions he has had meetings with representatives of The following table shows information on average net the (a) Federation of Small Businesses, (b) Institute of rate yield per hereditament for England as a whole: Directors and (c) Forum of Private Business to discuss the national representative body for local enterprise Net rate yield per hereditament in England partnerships to be led by the British Chambers of £ Real terms (2010 Commerce since May 2010. [54586] Cash prices) Robert Neill: Ministers meet regularly with business 1997-98 6,940 9,893 representative bodies on a range of policy issues, including 1998-99 7,080 9,701 local enterprise partnerships. 1999-2000 7,394 9,972 2000-01 8,110 10,622 Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001-02 8,888 11,440 Communities and Local Government what 2002-03 8,998 11,410 procurement process his Department used to select the 2003-04 8,921 10,969 British Chambers of Commerce to lead a national 2004-05 9,110 10,930 representative body for local enterprise partnerships; 2005-06 9,647 11,218 and if he will make a statement. [54587] 2006-07 10,275 11,650 2007-08 10,330 11,205 Robert Neill: The British Chamber of Commerce 2008-09 11,272 11,735 offered to run a network of Local Enterprise Partnerships 2009-10 11,429 12,039 and submitted a proposal to support this offer. The 2010-11 (est) 11,807 11,807 decision to engage with a British Chamber of Commerce— led network has been made on the basis of their good Planning Permission fit, national reach and ambition to deliver this work across the country for Local Enterprise Partnerships. Adam Afriyie: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department is not procuring this service but will Communities and Local Government whether local support this activity led by British Chamber of Commerce. planning authorities continue to be required to 1183W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1184W consider regional strategies as set out in ODPM ensuring it is developed out to maximise the impacts it circular 01/2006 when deciding upon local planning can have on strengthening local economies up and applications. [51884] down the country. DCLG will also be making use of European Regional Robert Neill: The Government are abolishing regional Development Fund related finance, project and HR strategies through the Localism Bill. This is a material data assets belonging to the former regional development consideration that local planning authorities can take agencies. We are currently scoping work needed to bring into account. the assets into effective use. On 13 April, my Department published a draft Planning Policy Statement on Traveller sites (which we intend will Regional Planning and Development replace Circular 01/2006), which councils can take into account as emerging policy. Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what Ports mechanisms are in place to assist local authorities in determining the appropriate level of site provision for Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Gypsies and Travellers which was formerly provided by Communities and Local Government how much was regional spatial strategies. [50572] paid into his Department’s scheme to enable port companies to pay off retrospective rate demands over Robert Neill: I refer the hon. Member to my Department’s eight years; and for what purposes the money paid into press notice of 13 April on Travellers and planning, the scheme has been spent. [54304] which provides a broad outline of the initiatives that my Department is taking to reform the planning process, to Robert Neill: Local authorities reported that in England improve community relations and to work with local in 2009-10 there was a net reduction in non-domestic communities to provide the right level of provision for rate yield of £8 million relating to schedule of payment local authorised sites. A copy has been placed in the agreements. Library of the House. This was calculated from the amount of relief granted by the signing of schedule of payment agreements in Rents: Exeter 2009-10 (£15 million) less the amount of money collected by local authorities in 2009-10 in respect of schedule of Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for payment agreements (£7 million) entered into up to Communities and Local Government if he will 31 March 2010. estimate the potential effects on rent levels in Exeter of the Government’s restructuring of council house rents. All non-domestic rates revenues, collected by billing [54395] authorities, are passed to the central non-domestic rates pool and are redistributed to local authorities under the Grant Shapps: Successive Governments have issued Formula Grant scheme. annual guidance on rent rises but final responsibility for setting rents lies with the local authority. Current rent Property Development: Floods restructuring policy, which is unchanged from that inherited Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for from the last administration, includes a recommended Communities and Local Government what recent limit on individual rent increases of no more than RPI+ discussions he has had with (a) the Secretary of State 0.5% + £2 in any year. Application of this limit is at the for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and (b) the discretion of the local authority. It would therefore be Environment Agency on the powers of the difficult to estimate actual rent levels in Exeter. Environment Agency to object to a planning Social Clubs application for developments in flood zones. [54910] Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: My Department has been working closely Communities and Local Government whether his with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Department provides support for social clubs in (a) Affairs on all aspects of planning reform, including on Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland development and flood risk. When taking forward our constituency, (b) the North East, (c) England and (d) reforms we will ensure that the Environment Agency the UK. [54246] retains a role in the planning process that facilitates their input in a timely and proportionate way. Robert Neill [holding answer 5 May 2011]: Social clubs play a crucial role in lives of communities all over Regional Development Agencies: Assets the country. The Department for Communities and Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Local Government is very supportive of their important Communities and Local Government what account he function and through the Community Right to Buy took in his Department’s business planning processes provisions contained in the Localism Bill, communities for future years of the use of former regional will be provided with greater opportunities to take over development agency assets; and what the net financial assets that are of importance to them. Consultation on the Community Right to Buy closed on 3 May 2011 and effect is of the use of such assets. [51594] we will be providing a response in the summer. Robert Neill: £100 million of income from the former The Government have also been working with BIG regional development agencies’ asset disposals in 2013-14 Lottery Fund on interim arrangements to establish a is incorporated in departmental spending plans. The big society bank (to help social enterprises, charities regional development agencies had a very broad portfolio and voluntary organisations access the investment they of land and property assets and we are committed to need). The big society bank will work with social investment 1185W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1186W intermediaries to grow the social investment market, Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for encouraging more investment in social change and Communities and Local Government how many and broadening the finance options open to the sector. what proportion of total housing stock was social Social clubs in England may be eligible for mandatory housing in each local authority in (a) 1981, (b) 1997 or discretionary business rates relief. The granting of and (c) 2009-10. [55027] discretionary rate relief is ultimately a decision for the local authority but the Government believes it has an Andrew Stunell: A table showing the figures requested important role to play in supporting not-for-profit has been placed in the Library of the House. organisations, recognising the public benefit that they Data from several sources are used in the answer to give to their local community. this parliamentary question. Local authority-owned stock The Government’s increase in small business, rate is from the Housing Strategy Statistical Appendix (HSSA) relief for two years has also benefited many social clubs. and its predecessor Housing Investment Programme (HIPl) returns; housing association stock is from the Social Rented Housing Tenant Services Authority’s Regulatory and Statistical Return (RSR); and total stock figures are from DCLG’s Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Dwelling Stock Estimates. Each of these is published Communities and Local Government (1) what estimate and in the public domain. he has made of the average proportion of rent which will be met from housing benefit in social housing Social Rented Housing: Greater London properties subject to 80 per cent. of market rents; [55025] Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) what estimate he has made of the level of social Communities and Local Government how many (a) rents in each local authority area where these are set at private and (b) social housing units were completed in 80 per cent. of market rents; and how this compares each London local authority area in each of the last th with (a) average levels of social rent and (b) the 30 five years. [55014] percentile of private sector rent. [55026] Andrew Stunell: Figures for new build housing Grant Shapps: As explained in the Affordable Homes completions in each English local authority district in Programme Framework, which can be found at: each of the last five years, split into private enterprise, http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/public/documents/ housing association and local authority tenures, are Affordable-Homes-Framework.pdf published on the Department for Communities and registered providers will be able to let a property at an Local Government website in Live Table 253 and can be affordable rent (inclusive of service charges, where found at the following link: applicable) of up to 80% of the gross market rent where http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ it is part of a development agreement with the Homes housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/housebuilding/livetables/ and Communities Agency. It would be open to providers However, for figures specifically on completions of to offer a rent at less than 80% of market rates if that social, or affordable, housing, a more detailed and best suited local circumstances. A provider’s calculation accurate source is the Department for Communities of market rent would need to be based on a residential and Local Government’s Affordable Housing Supply lettings estimate for a property of the appropriate size, statistics. Figures up to and including 2009-10 are published condition and area. Valuations should be in accordance in Live Table 1008 on the Department for Communities with a Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors recognised and Local Government website. The table, which includes method. both new-build completions and acquisitions, can be Illustrative modelling of the affordable rent policy, found at the following link: including assumptions about affordable rent levels and http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ the average proportion of rent that will met by housing housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/ benefit for affordable rent properties will be set out in affordablehousingsupply/livetables/ the Impact Assessment, due to be published shortly. The next House Building statistical release, containing The Impact Assessment will also describe the uncertainties figures for 2010-11, will be published on 19 May. around such housing benefit estimates. Data on affordable rent levels by local authority are not available. The next Affordable Housing Supply statistical release, containing figures for 2010-11, is scheduled to be published Statistics on social rent levels of housing association, in the autumn. local authority and private rents provided by the Department can be found at: Standards Board for England: Government Procurement http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ Card housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/rentslettings/ Local housing allowance rates by broad rental market Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for areas, which are subject to different boundaries to those Communities and Local Government what the (a) of local authorities, are determined by the Valuation th date of purchase, (b) gross amount, (c) level 3 line Office Agency and are based on the 30 percentile of item detail and (d) supplier was in respect of each private market rents, subject to caps. Information on transaction undertaken by the Standards Board using these rates for May 2011 can be found at: the Government Procurement Card in (i) 2008-09 and http://www.voa.gov.uk/LHADirect/BRMA_May_2011.htm (ii) 2009-10. [54577] Broad rental market areas are large in size, and summary figures will mask very significant variations in Robert Neill: The Standards Board for England does rents. not use the Government’s Procurement Card. 1187W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1188W

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Mr Hayes: The apprenticeships programme is demand led. Government provides funding and forecasts the overall number of places that may be afforded. We rely Apprentices on employers and providers to work together to offer sufficient opportunities to meet local demand, taking Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for advantage of the greater freedoms and flexibilities that Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has assessed we have created in the further education system. Funding the effects of the staged increase in the national fee of places for adult apprentices, those aged 19 and over, assumption for adult apprenticeships between 2006 is not further split by age and we do not directly control and 2010-11 on the numbers of micro-businesses the level of supply of places for those aged 19 to 25. offering apprenticeships in (a) the Brighton and Hove The coalition Government are committed to increasing area and (b) nationally; and if he will make a freedoms for further education colleges and training statement. [53019] providers, so that they are able to provide tailored solutions to meet the needs within their communities. Mr Hayes: We are strongly committed to supporting “Skills for Sustainable Growth” and “Investing in Skills employers to train their staff so that they have the skills for Sustainable Growth” set out these principles. The they need to grow their businesses. We know that National Apprenticeship Service, working with the Skills apprenticeships are valued by employers and individuals, Funding Agency and local authorities, regularly review as they yield measurable economic benefits for both the take up of apprenticeships by both employers and employers and their employees. Since the 2005/06 academic individuals (across all age groups) to ensure that demand year (AY)there has been an expectation that, as employers for apprenticeships is being met by supply. benefit from the skills and training their employees Across the programme, supply of apprenticeship places receive, they should contribute more to the cost of is at an all time high. Overall, with the new measures training. The level of contribution expected from employers, announced in this year’s Budget, this Government will referred to as the assumed contribution, has risen in deliver at least 250,000 more apprenticeships over the stages. next four years, compared to the previous Government’s The following table sets out the assumed fee contribution plans. In the 2009/10 academic year, 19 to 24-year-olds between 2006/07 AY and 2009/10 AY, and the number started 113,800 apprenticeship frameworks, a 34.3% of apprenticeships that were delivered to learners aged increase on 2008/09. 19+ living in the Brighton and Hove local authority area and across England over this period. There is no Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for central record that shows the number of adult Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has apprenticeships delivered by size of employer by local made of the potential effect on apprenticeship take-up authority area. The assumed fee contribution for 2010/11 rates of the withdrawal of design and technology from AY is 50%. the compulsory element of the national curriculum. [54415] Academic year (AY) 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 Mr Hayes: It would be premature to make any assessment of the potential impact such a decision could have on Assumed Fee 32.5 37.5 42.75 47.5 contribution apprenticeship take-up rates, as no decision has yet (percentage) been made by the Department for Education on whether Brighton and Hove local 240 440 540 550 design and technology will continue to be part of the authority national curriculum. The Department for Education is England 78,800 117,200 140,600 162,900 currently undertaking a full review of the national Data sources: curriculum, and plans to announce proposals at the end Statistical First Release published on 31 March 2011, Learning and Skills Council Statements of Priority for the financial years 2006-07, 2007-08, of the year. 2006-09 and 2009-10. “Investing in Skills for Sustainable Growth”(November Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010) provides illustrative forecasts of the number of Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how many adult training places that Government investment can apprenticeship starts there were in (a) each of the last support. It is anticipated that 388,490 adult apprenticeship three quarters of 2010 and (b) the first quarter of places will be funded across England in the 2010/11 2011; [54499] academic year. Individual colleges and training (2) how many apprenticeship places were (a) organisations have been given the freedom and flexibility available and (b) taken up in the year ended (i) March to work directly with their local partners, to determine 2010 and (ii) March 2011. [54500] the actual mix of provision that best meets the needs of their communities. As take up follows employer demand, Mr Hayes: Tables 1 as follows shows apprenticeship it is not possible to provide estimates of the geographical programme starts for each of the last three quarters of distribution of apprenticeship places or funding. 2009/10 and the first quarter of 2010/11. Table 1: Apprenticeship programme starts by quarter, 2009/10 and 2010/11 Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Academic Business, Innovation and Skills what mechanism he has year Quarter Apprenticeship starts put in place to monitor the adequacy of supply of 2009/10 November 2009 to January 51,000 apprenticeships for those aged 19 to 25 in (a) the 2010 Brighton and Hove area and (b) nationally; and if he February 2010 to April 64,800 will make a statement. [53020] 2010 1189W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1190W

Table 1: Apprenticeship programme starts by quarter, 2009/10 and 2010/11 Mr Hayes: As part of the Budget statement, this Academic Government announced a new £75 million programme year Quarter Apprenticeship starts of training and other targeted support focused specifically May 2010 to July 2010 64,500 on small and medium-sized businesses to help them 2010/11 August 2010 to October 122,000 access advanced and higher level apprenticeships. 2010 (Provisional) This package of support was developed as a result of Notes: discussions with employers as part of the growth review 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest hundred. 2. Provisional estimates for 2010/11 are not directly comparable with figures for and is expected to particularly benefit advanced earlier years. manufacturing and digital and creative industries. We Source: want to support businesses coming together to build Individualised Learner Record advanced and higher level apprenticeship schemes to On the 1 April 2010, 265,400 people were participating address their skills gaps. on an apprenticeship programme. As of the 31 January, As the Secretary of State for Education, my right the latest date for which we have published information, hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael 307,400 people were participating on an apprenticeship Gove), also announced recently we will be working programme. Participation figures show the number of together as a priority to reduce bureaucracy for small apprentices in learning on a given date. However, to and medium enterprises making it easier for them to ensure consistency and clarity, for comparative purposes take on new apprentices. we use the number of people starting an apprenticeship over a full academic year. Information on apprenticeship starts is published in a Apprentices: Staffordshire quarterly statistical first release (SFR). The latest SFR was published on 31 March: Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ Business, Innovation and Skills how many employers statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current have offered to provide apprenticeships within the Stoke-on-Trent/Staffordshire local enterprise Apprentices: Finance partnership area; and what steps he is taking to encourage take-up of such apprenticeships. [53225] Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how much funding has Mr Hayes: From 1 August 2010 to 31 January, 2,300 been allocated to apprenticeships in 2011-12; how employers1 started an apprentice through their learning much such funding is available to fund apprenticeships provider (just under 2,000 in Staffordshire and about in the local enterprise area covering Stoke-on-Trent 640 in Stoke).2 and Staffordshire; and if he will make a statement. [53224] This Government are committed to boosting the supply of apprenticeship places, which is why we have Mr Hayes: The Young People’s Learning Agency’s put funding in place to deliver at least 250,000 more 16-19 “Funding Statement” (December, 2010) set out Apprenticeships over the next four years. expected investment in 16-18 apprenticeship provision 1 Source—ILR data from 1 August 2010 to 31 January 2011 in the 2011-12 financial year of £799 million. 2 Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent reflects activity within the This Department’s “Investing in Skills for Sustainable local education area boundaries as BIS are yet to confirm the Growth” (November 2010) set out our plans to invest final reporting arrangements for LEP areas £3.9 billion in adult further education and skills in the 2011-12 financial year. This includes £3.7 billion for AssetCo over 3 million adult (19+) training places funded through the Skills Funding Agency with £605 million earmarked Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for for 19+ apprenticeship provision. Budget 2011 announced Business, Innovation and Skills how many export an additional £180 million for 19+ apprenticeship provision licences have been granted to AssetCo plc for the sale over the spending review period. of equipment to the government of the United Arab This Department is currently considering the split of Emirates (UAE) for use by the (a) army, (b) police funding across each of the spending review years, including and (c) fire service in the UAE in the last five years for the level of additional investment in 19+ apprenticeships which figures are available. [54211] for the 2011-12 financial year. Take-up by region follows employer demand and Mr Prisk: We have no record of any export licences providers can deliver apprenticeships across a number applications from this company. of different regions. For this reason, we are not able to provide estimates of the geographical distribution of British Library Business and IP Centre apprenticeship funding in 2011-12 financial year. Apprentices: Small Businesses Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for made of the effectiveness of the British Library’s Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking Business and IP Centre regional pilot study in the to encourage small and medium-sized businesses to North East; if he will estimate the potential effect of take on apprentices; what recent representations he has the Centre on the economy of the North East; and received on this issue; and if he will make a statement. what steps he plans to take maximise the economic [50239] benefit to the North East from the Centre. [52940] 1191W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1192W

Mr Prisk [holding answer 28 April 2011]: Ihave Quarterly totals for both compulsory and creditors’ made no assessment of the potential effectiveness of a voluntary liquidations in England and Wales are presented business and IP centre in the north-east of England, in Table 1 of the Quarterly Insolvency Statistics, the however, a scoping exercise commissioned by the British latest publication of which can be found on the Insolvency Library in December 2010 found that there would be Service website here: demand for a pilot in the north-east. An independent http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/otherinformation/statistics/ evaluation by Adroit Economics in 2010 found the 201102/table1.pdf London Business and IP Centre delivered an increase in gross value added of £1.29 for every £1 invested. The Business: Regulation British Library is currently exploring options to establish a centre in Newcastle, based on the London model. Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to his Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Department’s announcement of 18 March 2011 on Business, Innovation and Skills what support he plans business regulation, if he will bring forward proposals to provide the British Library Business and IP Centre to publish details of new regulations which have not following the termination of its funding by London been submitted to the Regulatory Policy Committee or Development Agency. [52941] the Reducing Regulation Committee. [52838]

Mr Prisk [holding answer 28 April 2011]: The core Mr Prisk: No new regulation which has an impact on services provided by the British Library Business and IP business should be introduced without it first being Centre will continue to be funded by the Department submitted to the Regulatory Policy Committee and the for Culture, Media and Sport grant after London Reducing Regulation Committee, as demonstrated for Development Agency (LDA) funding ceases. The British domestic regulation by the ″One-In, One-Out: Statement Library has successfully applied for European Regional of New Regulation″ published on 7 April. Development Funding of £2.4 million to provide additional advice for growth businesses over the period 2011/12 to Departmental Work Experience 2014/15. The application has been approved by the Mayor of London and contract negotiations are under John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for way. Bridge funding is currently being provided by Business, Innovation and Skills how many students LDA. from (a) the UK and (b) Bassetlaw constituency have been offered internships in his Department since 8 May Bureaucracy: Government Departments 2010. [53206]

Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Davey: The Department for Business, Innovation Business, Innovation and Skills how many comments and Skills has offered 14 internships to UK students expressing (a) support for existing regulations and (b) since 8 May 2010. None of those students reside in the requests for additional regulations he has received Bassetlaw constituency. through the Red Tape Challenge website. [54487] Economic Growth Mr Prisk [holding answer 9 May 2011]: Since the launch of the Red Tape Challenge website on 7 April, Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for we have received over 14,000 comments. The Departments Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to The leading each theme will consider all the comments, Plan for Growth, what his definition of an which are publicly available on the website at: economically significant project is. [52822] www.redtapechallenge.cabinetoffice.gov.uk The presence of a particular regulation or law on the Mr Prisk: With reference to the planning system, website should not be read as implying any intention on s76a of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 the part of the Government to remove that regulation allows the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation or law from the statute book and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable) to call in planning applications if they are of national or regional importance. Generally Business: Bassetlaw such cases are identified on a case by case basis and as set out in the Plan for Growth the Government will John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for consider using these powers for projects that have potential Business, Innovation and Skills how many (a) new for significant economic benefits beyond the area where business start ups and (b) business insolvencies there the development is based and the planning decision have been in Bassetlaw constituency since 8 May 2010. made. Local Enterprise Partnerships, for example, may [52943] play a role in identifying such projects. Mr Davey: Statistics on business start-ups are available Employment: Overseas Students from the Office of National Statistics publication on Business Demography. This is an annual publication Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for and data from 2010 will not be available until December Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has 2011. had with the Secretary of State for the Home Official statistics covering corporate insolvencies for Department on the effects on the further education England and Wales are not currently available at sub- sector of proposed regulations to restrict employment national level. of international students. [54900] 1193W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1194W

Mr Hayes [holding answer 9 May 2011]: The Export Controls Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has had wide-ranging discussions with Home Office, at ministerial John Cryer: To ask the Secretary of State for and official level, exploring all aspects of proposed Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what mechanisms changes to the student immigration system. are in place to ensure the protection of (a) democratic This Government value the contribution international freedoms and (b) human rights when assessing students make to our further education sector but are applications for export control licences; [54832] committed to reducing the numbers of non-EU immigrants (2) what steps he plans to take to ensure that export to this country and as part of this commitment we are control licences are not granted in circumstances where seeking to reduce the level of abuse of the system the equipment to be sold could be used to (a) suppress among student immigrants. In particular, we need to democratic expression and (b) abuse human rights. ensure that students coming to this country genuinely [54833] want to study and are not using the student immigration Mr Prisk: All UK export licence applications are route as a means of working in this country. rigorously assessed on a case by case basis against the Consolidated European Union (EU) and National Arms Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Export Licensing Criteria. We will not issue any licences Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has if to do so would be inconsistent with the Criteria. Our made of the number of international students assessment includes consideration of how an end-user attending further education colleges who will be is likely to use the proposed export, the circumstances affected by proposed restrictions on working hours. in which it might be used, and whether it could exacerbate [54903] conflict or otherwise contravene the criteria. Criterion two relates to ‘the respect of human rights Mr Hayes [holding answer 9 May 2011]: The UK and fundamental freedoms in the country of final Border Agency has carried out an assessment of the destination’. Having assessed the recipient country’s impact of the changes they are making to Tier 4 which attitude towards relevant principles established by will be published in the summer, however this will not international human rights instruments, we will ‘not contain an estimate of students affected by these restrictions issue an export licence if there is a clear risk that the as we do not hold centralised data in sufficient detail on proposed export might be used for internal repression’. international students in the further education sector. Foreign Investment in UK Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for English Language: Education Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to the Plan for Growth, what plans he has to provide a Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for bespoke service to key inward investors; and if he will Business, Innovation and Skills if he will estimate the make a statement. [53129] number of English for speakers of other languages students in (a) September 2010, (b) January 2011 and Mr Prisk: The Government are currently developing (c) May 2011. [54240] a new approach to ensure that major investors and exporters, whose decisions and business success will deliver significant benefits to the UK economy, receive Mr Hayes: The following table shows the number of a consistent and joined-up service from Government. Government-funded learners in England participating on an English for Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL) A new cross-governmental strategic relations team, course in 2009/10, and provisional data for the first six based in UK Trade and Investment (UKTI), under a months of 2010/11 (August 2010 to January 2011), the leadership with extensive private sector experience, will latest available published data. co-ordinate this work, adopting best practice from private sector professional services organisations. More details ESOL participation in England, 2009/10 and 2010/11 (August to January). will be contained in the UKTI Strategy 2011-15 to be ESOL participation published on 10 May. 2009/10 full year (final) 201,500 2010/11 August to January 147,900 Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for (provisional) Business, Innovation and Skills what progress has been Notes: made on contracting out the delivery of support for 1. These data cover participation in Learner Responsive, Apprenticeships, inward investment by UK Trade and Industry; and if Train to Gain, Adult Safeguarded Learning and University for Industry [53130] provision. Further Education/Learner responsive provision includes general he will make a statement. further education colleges including tertiary, sixth form colleges—agricultural and horticultural colleges and art and design colleges, specialist colleges and Mr Prisk: On 31 March 2011, UKTI awarded a external institutions. three-year contract (capable of extension to five years) 2. Volumes are rounded to the nearest 100. 3. Geography is based on learners’ home postcode. to PA Consulting Services Ltd for delivery of new 4. Provisional figures for 2010/11 are not directly comparable to final figures national inward investment arrangements. PA Consulting for 2009/10. will deliver these new arrangements in partnership with Source: Individualised Learner Record the British Chambers of Commerce and OCO Consulting. The new arrangements will provide resource to: Information on participation on ESOL courses is a. co-ordinate and manage inward investment propositions published in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). throughout the UK; The latest SFR was published on 31 March: b. support the local elements of delivery of inward investment http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ support, including investor development, in England, excepting statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current/ London which has its own arrangements. 1195W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1196W

This is as set out in the notice in the Official Journal on an income contingent basis in line with the recently of the European Union: announced approach for higher education fee loans. http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:36720Q- Further education fee loans will share key features with 2010:TEXT:EN:HTML higher education fee loans, we plan to publish proposals A press statement can be found on the UK Trade and for implementing further education fee loans following Investment website: the publication of the Higher Education White Paper. http://www.ukti.gov.uk/pt_pt/uktihome/media/pressRelease/ 128993.html?null Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills with which stakeholder Further Education groups and organisations he has discussed his proposals for the introduction of loans for further Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for education students over the age of 24 years at Level 3 Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to his answer and the age of 25 years at Level 2. [54053] of 15 March 2011, Official Report, column 305W, on further education, which of the further education Mr Hayes [holding answer 4 May 2011]: Proposals colleges listed undertook capital works of a monetary for implementing further education fee loans have been value of more than £1 million in the last five years. discussed with the following organisations. [54382] Association of Colleges National Union of Students Mr Hayes: Of the further education colleges listed in Third Sector National Learning Alliance my answer of 15 March 2011, Official Report, column 305W, the following 25 FE Colleges have undertaken Dudley College capital works of a monetary value of more than £1 South Tyneside College million in the last five years: Association of Learning Providers Boston College, Lincolnshire Hospitality Industry Training Broxtowe College (now called Castle College) Skills Funding Agency Bury College Student Loans Company Canterbury College National Institute of Adult Continuing Education City College Birmingham British Telecom City of Sunderland College Apprenticeship Ambassador Network Halesowen College Proposals have also been discussed with HMRC chaired Highbury College Employer Student Loans Reference Group. Lambeth College We have announced that further education fee loans Lincoln College will be introduced for those aged 24 and over undertaking Matthew Boulton College (now called Birmingham Metropolitan provision at Level 3 and above. There are no plans to College) introduce fee loans for those undertaking provision National Star College below Level 3. Newcastle-under-Lyme College North Lindsey College Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills for what reasons the Royal National College for the Blind, Hereford proposed consultation document on the introduction Royal School for the Deaf of loans for further education students has not been Salford City College published. [54055] South Staffordshire College Stoke on Trent College Mr Hayes [holding answer 4 May 2011]: In November Strode College 2010, we announced in “Investing in Skills for Sustainable The Manchester College Growth” that further education fee loans will be repaid Trafford College on an income contingent basis in line with the recently announced approach for higher education fee loans. Tresham Institute Further education fee loans will share key features with Walford and North Shropshire College higher education fee loans, we plan to publish proposals Warwickshire College for implementing further education fee loans following Total: 25 the publication of the Higher Education White Paper. Further Education: Finance Since November 2010, we have consulted with a wide range of organisations about the implementation of further education fee loans. Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills when he plans to publish the consultation document on the introduction Further Education: Loans of loans for further education students referred to on page 13 of his Department’s Business Plan published in Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for November 2010. [54052] Business, Innovation and Skills if he will commission an equality impact assessment of his proposals for the Mr Hayes [holding answer 4 May 2011]: In November introduction of loans for further education students 2010, we announced in “Investing in Skills for Sustainable over the age of 24 years at Level 3 and the age of Growth” that further education fee loans will be repaid 25 years at Level 2. [54050] 1197W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1198W

Mr Hayes [holding answer 4 May 2011]: We have Mr Prisk: According to HM Revenue and Customs announced that further education fee loans will be Overseas Trade Statistics, trade in goods in 2010 with introduced for those aged 24 and over undertaking Australia and New Zealand included the following provision at Level 3 and above. There are no plans to commodities, using the 2-digit Standard International introduce fee loans for those undertaking provision Trade Classification. below Level 3. Australia We plan to publish proposals for implementing further £ million education fee loans following the publication of the Higher Education White Paper. An equality impact Goods imports from Australia assessment will be published alongside the proposals. Total 2,174 Coal and coke 403 Green Investment Bank Beverages 366 Non-ferrous metals 324 Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Miscellaneous manufactures 165 Business, Innovation and Skills when he expects to Non-metallic mineral manufactures 112 announce the proposed location of the headquarters of the Green Investment Bank. [51922] Goods exports to Australia Mr Prisk: We expect to make an announcement Total 3,175 about the Green Investment Bank (GIB) later this month. Medicinal and pharmaceutical 544 However, it is unlikely to include the precise location of Road vehicles 452 the GIB. Miscellaneous manufactures 290 Specialised machinery 185 Medicine: Education General industrial machinery 152

Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of New Zealand State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he £ million is taking to ensure that people wishing to undertake medical degrees are not deterred from doing so by Goods imports from New Zealand changes to arrangements for student finance; and if he Total 839 will make a statement. [55006] Meat 322 Beverages 152 Mr Willetts: No eligible student in England, entering Non-road transport equipment 66 higher education for the first time in 2012, including Vegetables and fruit 47 those studying for medicine, will have to pay their fees Textile fibres 23 up front. In addition there will be a more generous package of support for living costs, comprising loans Goods exports to New Zealand and non repayable grants for those students from Total 319 households with incomes of up to £42,600. Road vehicles 57 Students from families with an income no greater Miscellaneous manufactures 39 than £25,000 per annum may also be eligible for support Power generation equipment 37 from the National Scholarship Programme. Universities Specialised machinery 23 will determine their own eligibility criteria for the Medicinal and pharmaceutical 22 programme.

Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of According to the Office for National Statistics Balance State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether his of Payments Pink Book, trade in services in 2009 with Department provides financial assistance to students Australia included the following sectors: wishing to undertake medical degrees; and if he will make a statement. [55007] Australia £ million Mr Willetts: The Department provides financial support for students in England studying for a first degree, Services imports from Australia including those studying medicine who can apply for Total 2,141 support for the first four years of their course. Support Travel 701 for subsequent years of a medical course is provided Royalties and licence fees 445 jointly by my Department, which provides a maintenance Transportation 371 loan at a reduced level, and the Department of Health, Other business services 32t which currently provides support for tuition fees and Financial services 116 NHS bursaries. Services exports to Australia Overseas Trade: Australasia Total 4,111 Transportation 1,334 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Travel 827 Business, Innovation and Skills what the primary (a) Financial services 691 imported and (b) exported goods and services are Other business services 684 between the UK and (i) Australia and (ii) New Insurance 215 Zealand. [53912] 1199W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1200W

A breakdown of services trade with New Zealand is (2) what estimates his Department made of the cost not available. Total UK imports of services from New of designing and implementing the Qualifications and Zealand were worth about £284 million in 2009 and UK Curriculum Framework prior to commencement on exports of services to New Zealand £439 million. this work. [52013] Parental Leave Mr Hayes: In November 2008 the then Department Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for for Innovation, Universities and Skills signed off a Business, Innovation and Skills on how many Final Business Case (FBC) for implementing the occasions his Department has discussed shared Qualifications and Credit Framework (QCF). The FBC parental leave with the Childhood and Families estimated that the total cost of implementing the QCF over the comprehensive spending review (CSR) period Taskforce. [53589] to 30 April was £205 million with the bulk of that cost, Mr Davey: It is longstanding Government practice £122 million, being borne by awarding organisations not to disclose information relating to ministerial meetings, and learning providers in the private sector. The remaining including the proceedings of Cabinet and Cabinet £83 million was to come from the public purse and be committees, as to do so would put at risk the public divided between Ofqual (£14 million), QCA (£13 million), interest in the full and frank discussion of policy by the Learning and Skills Council (£45 million), and the Ministers. Department and the devolved Administrations (£11 million). Post Offices The actual public spend over the CSR has been Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for £61 million. The total funding the Qualifications and Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how levels of Curriculum Development Agency has received from the compensation received by sub-post offices upon being Department to implement the QCF is £8.4 million. made a Post Office Local will be determined; [53579] Expenditure on the Qualifications and Credit Framework (2) what compensation sub-post offices will receive £ million upon being made a Post Office Local. [53580] 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Total BIS and 0.12 0.82 0.61 10.60 2.15 Mr Davey: The level of compensation and financial Das support for sub post offices converting to the Post QCDA 2.93 2.96 2.50 10.00 8.39 Office Local model will be determined by Post Office Ofqual 0.00 0.00 5.50 17.00 12.50 Ltd who are working closely with the National Federation LSC/ 0.00 3.64 11.00 119.00 33.64 of SubPostmasters on this as part of the overall planning SFA of the Post Office Local implementation. The details LSIS 0.00 0.00 2.43 11.00 3.43 are yet to be decided. UKCES 0.00 0.00 0.20 10.50 0.70 1 Power Line Technology Devices 3.05 7.42 22.24 28.10 60.81 1 Estimated expenditure Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has Red Tape Challenge made of the security of power line technology devices following concerns expressed by GCHQ. [52884] Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how the default Mr Prisk: Power line technology (PLT) apparatus is presumption that burdensome regulations will be required to comply with the Electro-Magnetic Compatibility removed under the Red Tape Challenge will apply in Regulations 2006. The Regulations do not set specific the case where (a) some respondents to the Red Tape levels of interference but set objectives to ensure that Challenge state that regulations are burdensome and properly designed radio systems will operate when other should be removed or lessened and an equal or greater electrical equipment, such as PLT apparatus, is operated. number of respondents state that the same regulations Enforcement is carried out by Office of Communications should be retained or strengthened and (b) there are (OFCOM) no complaints about a regulation listed as part of the The concerns expressed by Government Communications Red Tape Challenge; and if he will make a statement. Headquarters (GCHQ) you make reference to were [54117] contained in a statement that has been withdrawn by GCHQ. Following further investigation, GCHQ have Mr Prisk: The Red Tape Challenge aims to remove or advised this Department that they have concluded that simplify regulations which impose unnecessary burdens PLT technology is not currently impacting GCHQ’s on businesses, members of the public and voluntary capability. GCHQ and OFCOM are due to meet in organisations. Ministers will have the opportunity to mid-May as part of a wider consultative process. I justify which regulations they want to keep. The comments therefore have made no assessment. from the website wilt inform these decisions. Qualifications and Curriculum Framework Regional Development Agencies Nadhim Zahawi: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what funding the Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Qualifications and Curriculum Development Agency Business, Innovation and Skills what the principal received from his Department for the design and differences in function are between regional implementation of the Qualifications and Curriculum development agencies and local enterprise Framework; [52012] partnerships. [51501] 1201W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1202W

Mr Prisk: The purposes of the regional development Small Businesses: Finance agencies (RDAs) are set out in part 1, section 4 (a-e) of the RDA Act 1998. Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Local enterprise partnerships are locally developed Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has by business and civic leaders who are responsible for made of the effects on small businesses of changes in setting their own priorities. The partnerships’ key focus levels of lending charges by banks. [54277] is to address the barriers to local growth. Mr Prisk: The Government are committed to ensuring Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for that viable small and medium-sized enterprise (SMEs) Business, Innovation and Skills what consultation are able to access the finance they need, which includes process was undertaken prior to the decision to abolish ensuring access to bank finance, equity finance and regional development agencies. [54667] other sources of finance. Data collected from the four main banks, which is Mr Prisk: The Conservative and Liberal Democrat published and analysed on a quarterly basis by the manifestos set out the intention to reform the delivery Bank of England in its Trends in Lending publication, of economic development in England, following which show that despite increase in bank margins, the overall the decision to abolish the regional development agencies cost of finance remains on average lower than in 2007 (RDAs) was included in the coalition agreement. No due to falls in the base rate. Average margins on variable formal consultation process was therefore undertaken rate finance have continued fluctuating over the last six prior to the decision to abolish the RDAs. months; they are currently higher in February than in the same month in 2008 for both the small and medium segments of SMEs. Regional Growth Fund Social Services: Regulation

Andrew Bingham: To ask the Secretary of State for Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what criteria he has set Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to for the assessment of projects in round 2 of the paragraph 2.214 of The Plan for Growth, which regional growth fund. [54118] regulations he has identified as having a disproportionate effect on micro-enterprises in the Mr Prisk: The criteria for the second round for social care sector. [52484] assessing projects are the same as the first round. To qualify for support from the Regional Growth Fund, Mr Prisk: As part of the Growth Review, National projects should demonstrate that they: Association of Adult Placement Services, the national create additional sustainable private sector growth; network for small community service providers, raised rebalance the economy in those areas currently dependent on the following key regulatory barriers to growth, which the public sector; they considered to have impacted upon their membership would not otherwise go ahead without support from the of social care micro-enterprises, disproportionately: Regional Growth Fund; Food Standards Regulations offer value for money; and Private Hire Vehicle Licensing be state aid compliant. Criminal Records Bureau Checks Employment and Taxation Duties Further details of the actions underway to address Skills Funding Agency: Manpower these barriers are set out in the Plan for Growth see: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ukecon_growth_index.htm Mr Raynsford: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many staff were Supermarkets: Competition employed by the Skills Funding Agency in (a) April 2010 and (b) April 2011; and what his most recent Gordon Henderson: To ask the Secretary of State for estimate is of the numbers which will be employed by Business, Innovation and Skills when he plans to that agency in (i) April 2012, (ii) April 2013 and (iii) publish the timetable for establishing a groceries code April 2014. [54385] adjudicator. [53920]

Mr Hayes: The number of staff employed by the Mr Davey: The Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill will Skills Funding Agency in: be published for pre-legislative scrutiny shortly. April 2010 was 1,904 headcount (full-time equivalent 1846.82); Supply Chain Finance April 2011 was 1,649 headcount (full-time equivalent 1601.69). The agency’s most recent estimate of the numbers Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for which will be employed by that agency in: Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he plans to April 2012 is 1,264 posts (headcount may be higher if there are take to stimulate the use of supply chain finance. employees job sharing or working part-time); [52824] April 2013 is 1,249 posts (headcount may be higher if there are employees job sharing or working part-time); Mr Prisk: This Department is committed to improving April 2014 is 1,249 posts (headcount may be higher if there are the diversity of finance sources available to business. employees job sharing or working part-time). Supply chain finance was identified as a potentially 1203W Written Answers10 MAY 2011 Written Answers 1204W valuable source of finance for some businesses in the Telecommunications business finance green paper Financing a Private Sector Recovery (published July 2010) and the “Government David Mowat: To ask the Secretary of State for response Financing Business Growth”(published October Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions 2010). he has had on the future regulation of power line As set out in our “Plan for Growth”, published telecommunications devices; and if he will make a alongside the Budget in March 2011, we are working statement. [53879] with mid-cap and larger businesses and industry bodies to increase awareness and understanding of how supply Mr Prisk: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave chain finance could benefit private sector supply chains. him on 27 April 2011, Official Report, column 449W. In the public sector, Government are assessing current TrustMark Scheme pilot schemes to learn lessons and consider the potential for wider public sector use of supply chain finance. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for made of the number of firms accredited by the Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has TrustMark scheme; and if he will make a statement. made of the supply chains which would benefit from [53973] the use of supply chain finance; and what representations he has received from businesses on Mr Prisk: I understand there are currently 11,864 supply chain finance. [52825] firms registered as TrustMark members ranging in size from small businesses to major companies. As some of Mr Prisk: Supply chain finance offers potential benefit these firms are registered for more than one trade, the to a wide range of supply chains, including in the public number of trades registered with TrustMark (2005) Ltd sector, and we are approaching it as a cross-sectoral currently stands at 17,499. issue. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Some responses to the business finance green paper Business, Innovation and Skills what representations he “Financing a Private Sector Recovery” (published July has received on expanding the number of scheme 2010) included references to supply chain finance, including operators under the TrustMark scheme; and if he will responses from providers of supply chain finance tools. make a statement. [53974] Ministers and officials have also discussed supply chain finance with industry representatives, major providers, Mr Prisk: The operation of the TrustMark scheme large corporations who have introduced supply chain and the recruitment of scheme operators is a matter for finance tools and small suppliers who have accessed TrustMark (2005) Ltd. At the Department’s regular supply chain finance. meetings with the chief executive of TrustMark (2005) Ltd the Department is kept informed about the number Technology: Greater London of TrustMark scheme operators. Working Hours: Doctors Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to the Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Plan for Growth, what assessment he has made of Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions progress in contracting out the marketing of the East he has had with the Secretary of State for Health on London Tech City initiative; and if he will make a the future implementation of the European Working statement. [53131] Time Directive for (a) hospital doctors and (b) acute medical staff. [54453] Mr Prisk: The Government announced last year its blueprint for technology—this includes plans to develop Mr Davey: I and my officials work very closely with Tech City in East London. The goal is to take Britain the Department of Health on the application of the on the right path to a high-tech future. Working Time Directive to the UK Healthcare sector, meeting as appropriate. This directive is once again As part of this, UKTI’s Tech City Investment being considered by the European Commission and Organisation has established a team of entrepreneurs to both Departments agree that we should pursue discussions help East London become a world-leading technology in Europe with the intention of maintaining the individual’s cluster and magnet for technology-led inward investment, right to opt-out of the 48 hour working week while talent and innovation. seeking greater flexibility particularly in the areas of UK Trade and Investment is leading on the marketing on-call time and compensatory rest. This strategy is for Tech City with the support of Hill and Knowlton on in-keeping with the commitment in the coalition agreement the international marketing strategy.The Hill and Knowlton to work to limit the application of the Working Time team will be based in the heart of Tech City. Directive. ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 10 May 2011

Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 1009 TREASURY—continued Alcohol Duty ...... 1022 Economic Growth (VAT) ...... 1014 Bank Lending (Small Businesses)...... 1011 First-time Buyers ...... 1018 Barnett Formula ...... 1021 Monetary Policy Framework ...... 1009 Budget Deficits ...... 1022 Public Sector Borrowing Requirement ...... 1018 Business Costs...... 1012 Regional Investment ...... 1019 Business Regulation ...... 1017 Tax and Benefit Changes ...... 1016 Charitable Giving...... 1015 Topical Questions ...... 1023 Economic Growth...... 1020 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 10 May 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 29WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 33WS UK Trade and Investment (New Strategy) ...... 29WS NATO Parliamentary Assembly...... 33WS

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 31WS JUSTICE...... 34WS Building and the Environment ...... 31WS Court Funds Office Modernisation...... 34WS Judicial Appointments ...... 34WS

EDUCATION...... 32WS TRANSPORT ...... 35WS Munro Review of Child Protection...... 32WS Aircraft Cabin Air Quality...... 35WS

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 33WS TREASURY ...... 29WS Post Informal Energy Council Meeting...... 33WS ECOFIN: 17 May 2011...... 29WS PETITIONS

Tuesday 10 May 2011

Col. No. Col. No. PRESENTED PETITION ...... 19P EDUCATION—continued ESOL Funding ...... 19P Refurbishment of Hillbourne School, Poole ...... 20P

EDUCATION...... 19P Education Maintenance Allowance...... 19P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 10 May 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 1187W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Apprentices...... 1187W Further Education: Loans...... 1196W Apprentices: Finance ...... 1189W Green Investment Bank ...... 1197W Apprentices: Small Businesses...... 1189W Medicine: Education...... 1197W Apprentices: Staffordshire...... 1190W Overseas Trade: Australasia ...... 1197W AssetCo ...... 1190W Parental Leave...... 1199W British Library Business and IP Centre...... 1190W Post Offices ...... 1199W Bureaucracy: Government Departments...... 1191W Power Line Technology Devices...... 1199W Business: Bassetlaw ...... 1191W Qualifications and Curriculum Framework...... 1199W Business: Regulation ...... 1192W Red Tape Challenge ...... 1200W Departmental Work Experience...... 1192W Regional Development Agencies...... 1200W Economic Growth...... 1192W Regional Growth Fund ...... 1201W Employment: Overseas Students...... 1192W Skills Funding Agency: Manpower...... 1201W English Language: Education ...... 1193W Small Businesses: Finance...... 1202W Export Controls ...... 1194W Social Services: Regulation...... 1202W Foreign Investment in UK ...... 1194W Supermarkets: Competition ...... 1202W Further Education ...... 1195W Supply Chain Finance...... 1202W Further Education: Finance...... 1195W Technology: Greater London...... 1203W Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued EDUCATION...... 1138W Telecommunications ...... 1204W Children: Day Care ...... 1138W TrustMark Scheme...... 1204W Discretionary Learner Support Fund...... 1139W Working Hours: Doctors ...... 1204W Education: Finance...... 1140W Education Maintenance Allowance...... 1139W CABINET OFFICE...... 1172W Further Education: Finance...... 1140W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 1172W Further Education: Free School Meals ...... 1141W Manufacturing Industries ...... 1172W GCE A-level...... 1141W Members: Correspondence ...... 1172W GCSE ...... 1142W Public Bodies: Reform ...... 1172W Music: Education...... 1143W Third Sector...... 1173W Pupils: Dyslexia ...... 1143W Special Educational Needs...... 1143W Students: Finance ...... 1144W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 1173W Affordable Housing: Wirral ...... 1173W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 1095W Alcoholic Drinks...... 1174W Biofuels...... 1095W Audit Commission: Government Procurement Energy Supply...... 1096W Card...... 1174W Industrial Diseases: Compensation ...... 1096W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 1178W Oil: Refineries ...... 1098W Enterprise Zones...... 1179W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 1098W Enterprise Zones: Non-domestic Rates ...... 1179W EU Grants and Loans: North East ...... 1179W Government Procurement Card: Local ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Government...... 1180W AFFAIRS...... 1060W Historic Buildings: Planning Permission ...... 1180W Biodiversity: Export Credit Guarantees ...... 1060W Housing: Building Alterations ...... 1180W Forests: Developing Countries ...... 1060W Housing: Older People ...... 1181W Peat...... 1060W Land: Databases ...... 1181W Sewers: Private Sector ...... 1060W Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 1181W Water: South East ...... 1061W Non-domestic Rates...... 1182W Planning Permission ...... 1182W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 1147W Ports ...... 1183W Anti-Semitism: Germany ...... 1147W Property Development: Floods ...... 1183W Chile: Press ...... 1147W Regional Development Agencies: Assets...... 1183W COE Commissioner for Human Rights: Finance... 1147W Regional Planning and Development...... 1184W Diplomatic Service...... 1148W Rents: Exeter...... 1184W Germany: Nazism ...... 1149W Social Clubs ...... 1184W Osama bin Laden...... 1149W Social Rented Housing...... 1185W Pakistan: Politics and Government ...... 1150W Social Rented Housing: Greater London ...... 1186W Zimbabwe: Politics and Government ...... 1150W Standards Board for England: Government Procurement Card...... 1186W HEALTH...... 1151W Allied Health Professions...... 1151W Aspartame ...... 1152W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 1057W Blood: CJD...... 1152W Broadband ...... 1057W Blood: Contamination ...... 1152W National Archives ...... 1058W CJD ...... 1153W Ofcom...... 1058W Doctors: Working Hours ...... 1153W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 1059W Health Professions: Higher Education ...... 1154W Heart Diseases: Health Services ...... 1154W DEFENCE...... 1073W Liphophilic Biotoxins...... 1155W Air Force: Snow and Ice...... 1073W Lyme Disease...... 1155W Armed Forces: HIV Infection ...... 1074W Malaria ...... 1156W Armed Forces: Olympic Games 2012 ...... 1074W Medical Equipment: Hygiene...... 1156W Armed Forces: Recruitment ...... 1074W Multiple Sclerosis: Nurses...... 1156W Armed Forces: Redundancy...... 1075W Muscular Dystrophy ...... 1156W Armed Forces: Training ...... 1075W NHS: Sustainable Development...... 1156W Aviation: Training ...... 1076W Organs: Donors ...... 1157W Departmental Procurement...... 1076W St Helens and Knowsley Health Authority ...... 1157W Departmental Public Bodies ...... 1076W Strokes ...... 1158W Departmental Vacancies ...... 1085W Tobacco ...... 1158W Electronic Warfare ...... 1086W Ex-servicemen: Radiation ...... 1086W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 1098W Foreign Relations...... 1086W Antisocial Behaviour...... 1098W HMS Albion ...... 1089W Asylum ...... 1099W HMS Liverpool...... 1089W Bigamy...... 1103W Navy: Olympic Games 2012...... 1089W Crime...... 1104W Navy: Training ...... 1089W Cycling: Fines ...... 1106W Nuclear Submarines...... 1090W Departmental Consultants...... 1106W Warships ...... 1091W Departmental Contracts ...... 1106W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 1107W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 1172W Departmental Meetings ...... 1107W Members: Correspondence ...... 1172W Departmental Work Experience...... 1107W Col. No. Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT—continued JUSTICE—continued Deportation: Immigration...... 1108W Courts: Conditional Fee Agreements ...... 1066W Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal ...... 1108W Courts: Domestic Violence...... 1068W Driving Offences ...... 1109W Damages ...... 1071W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 1109W Damages: Employers’ Liability ...... 1071W Homicide ...... 1109W Prisoners: Childbirth...... 1072W Human Trafficking ...... 1110W Prisoners: Females ...... 1072W Illegal Immigrants...... 1110W Prisons ...... 1072W Immigrants: English Language ...... 1111W Prisons: Private Sector ...... 1073W Interpreters ...... 1111W Kent Police Authority: Operating Costs...... 1111W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 1057W Newspaper Press ...... 1112W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 1057W Offences ...... 1112W Passports...... 1112W TRANSPORT ...... 1061W Police ...... 1113W Aviation: Conditions of Employment ...... 1061W Police: Airports ...... 1119W Car Sharing...... 1061W Police: Bureaucracy...... 1119W Invalid Vehicles ...... 1061W Police: Corruption...... 1120W Motorways...... 1062W Police Custody ...... 1118W Official Cars: Expenditure...... 1062W Police: Drugs...... 1120W Roads: Accidents ...... 1062W Police: Expenditure ...... 1121W Police: Firearms ...... 1122W TREASURY ...... 1091W Police: Harrow ...... 1124W Bank Lending ...... 1093W Police: Internet...... 1125W Child Benefit...... 1093W Police: Manpower ...... 1126W Child Poverty ...... 1093W Police: Overtime...... 1131W Departmental Pensions ...... 1094W Police: Riot Control Weapons...... 1133W Double-dip Recession ...... 1091W Police: Rural Areas...... 1133W Economic Growth...... 1091W Police: Training ...... 1133W EU Budget 2012...... 1092W Police: Working Hours...... 1134W Members: Correspondence ...... 1094W Prince William: Marriage...... 1134W Public Sector Borrowing Requirement ...... 1093W Security: Olympic Games 2012 ...... 1135W Renewable Energy: Finance ...... 1094W Terrorism: Northern Ireland ...... 1136W Taxation: Environment Protection ...... 1095W Vetting ...... 1137W Whisky: Scotland ...... 1095W Video Conferencing ...... 1137W Working Tax Credit ...... 1092W Young Offenders ...... 1138W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 1059W Departmental Work Experience...... 1059W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION ...... 1057W Equal Pay ...... 1057W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 1159W Child Care Tax Credit...... 1159W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 1144W Child Support Agency ...... 1159W Afghanistan: Armoured Fighting Vehicles...... 1144W Children: Maintenance ...... 1160W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 1144W Departmental Buildings...... 1161W Departmental Pensions ...... 1145W Disability Living Allowance...... 1161W Developing Countries: Maternity Services ...... 1145W Disability Living Allowance: Autism...... 1162W Developing Countries: New Businesses...... 1145W Disability Living Allowance: Parkinson’s Disease.. 1163W Developing Countries: Solar Power ...... 1145W Housing Benefit ...... 1163W Export Credits Guarantee Department...... 1146W Local Government Finance ...... 1166W Overseas Aid...... 1146W Social Fund...... 1166W World Bank: Coal Fired Power Stations...... 1146W Social Security Benefits...... 1167W Social Security Benefits: Strokes ...... 1168W JUSTICE...... 1065W State Retirement Pensions...... 1169W Claims: Accidents ...... 1065W Welfare to Work...... 1170W Claims: Personal Injury...... 1065W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 1171W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Tuesday 10 May 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1009] [see index inside back page] Chancellor of the Exchequer

Off-quota University Places [Col. 1029] Answer to urgent question—(Mr Willetts)

Passenger Name Records [Col. 1040] Statement—(Damian Green)

Lip-reading [Col. 1050] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Ian Lavery)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Energy Bill [Lords] [Col. 1053] Motion for Second Reading—(Chris Huhne)—agreed to

Petitions [Col. 1135]

Hospices (VAT) [Col. 1136] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Wind Farm (Mid-Wales) [Col. 347WH] Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles [Col. 370WH] UK and Sierra Leone [Col. 392WH] Employment and Support Allowance [Col. 400WH] European Union (UK Permanent Representative) [Col. 408WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 29WS]

Petitions [Col. 19P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 1057W] [see index inside back page]