COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HOUSE VETERANS AFFAIRS & EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS AND HOUSE AGING & OLDER ADULT SERVICES
PUBLIC HEARING "PROGRAM AND ASSISTANCE FOR OUR AGING VETERAN POPULATION"
TUESDAY, AUGUST 28, 2 018 PA SOUTHEASTERN VETERANS' CENTER 1 VETERANS DRIVE, SPRING CITY, PA 10:02 a.m.
HELD BEFORE:
HONORABLE STEPHEN BARRAR, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE CRIS DUSH HONORABLE FRANCIS X. RYAN HONORABLE MARTINA A. WHITE HONORABLE CAROL HILL-EVANS HONORABLE PAMELA A. DeLISSIO HONORABLE STEVE McCARTER HONORABLE STEVE SAMUELSON, DEMOCRATIC CHAIR HONORABLE TIM HENNESSEY, CHAIR HONORABLE CHRIS SAINATO, MINORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE BRYAN BARBIN HONORABLE MARK M. GILLEN HONORABLE BARRY JOZWIAK HONORABLE RICK SACCONE HONORABLE DOM COSTA HONORABLE JONATHAN FRITZ Page: 2 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 ALSO PRESENT:
2 RICK O'LEARY, Majority Executive Director, Veterans Affairs & Emergency Preparedness Committee 3 ERIN RAUB, Republican Executive Director 4 SEAN HARRIS, Majority Research Analyst 5 MIKE HILLMAN, Minority Executive Director 6
7
8
9
10 TESTIMONY INDEX
11 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER 11
12 MS. OSBORNE 47
13 MR. GETZ 67
14 MR. FOSTER 72
15 MR. SINGAGLIESE 101
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 Page: 3 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Good morning,
2 everyone. I would like to call this House Veteran
3 Affairs and Emergency Preparedness Committee public
4 hearing call to order. Okay.
5 At this time, I would like to ask General
6 Weller to please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.
7 (Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: All right. Why
9 don't we first take a couple seconds to go around and
10 introduce the members and the staff that is here today
11 with both committees.
12 REPRESENTATIVE FRITZ: Thank you,
13 Mr. Chairman. Good morning.
14 My name is Jonathan Fritz, representing the
15 111th District, comprising Wayne and Susquehanna
16 Counties.
17 REPRESENTATIVE COSTA: Good morning, ladies
18 and gentlemen. Representative Dom Costa, 21st District,
19 Allegheny County, City of Pittsburgh.
20 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: Good morning,
21 everyone. Rick Saccone, representing the 39th District,
22 which represents Southern Allegheny County and Northern
23 Washington Counties.
24 REPRESENTATIVE JOZWIAK: Good morning.
25 Barry Jozwiak, 5th District, Berks County. Page: 4 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Mark Gillen,
2 Southern Berks, North Lancaster County.
3 REPRESENTATIVE BARBIN: Bryan Barbin,
4 Cambria County. I represent Johnstown.
5 MR. HILLMAN: Michael Hillman. I am
6 Democratic Executive Director, House Veterans Affairs.
7 REPRESENTATIVE SAINATO: I'm representative
8 Chris Sainato. I'm the Democratic Chairman of the House
9 Veteran Affairs Emergency Preparedness.
10 MR. HARRIS: Sean Harris, research analyst
11 for Committee of Veterans Affairs.
12 MR. O'LEARY: Good morning. I'm Rick
13 O'Leary, Executive Director for Chairman Barrar.
14 MS. RAUB: Erin Raub, Republican Executive
15 Director of the House Aging Committee.
16 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Pam DeLissio. I
17 represent the 194th, which are parts of Philadelphia and
18 Montgomery Counties.
19 REPRESENTATIVE McCARTER: Steve McCarter,
20 Montgomery County, House District 154.
21 REPRESENTATIVE HILL-EVANS: Carol Hill-
22 Evans, representing the 95th District in York County.
23 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: Martina White,
24 representing Northeast Philadelphia, the 170th District.
25 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: Frank Ryan, Page: 5 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 representing the 101st District in Lebanon, Pennsylvania.
2 REPRESENTATIVE DUSH: Cris Dush, the 66th
3 District in Jefferson and Indiana Counties.
4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you.
5 I want to thank the staff for sending me
6 the memo on the uniform of the day. I forgot my jacket
7 and tie, so I apologize for being so casual.
8 Good morning. I am Representative Steve
9 Barrar, Majority Chair of the House Veteran Affairs and
10 Emergency Preparedness Committee.
11 I want to welcome everyone to our joint
12 public hearing with the House Aging and Older Adult
13 Service Committee on the subject of assisting our aging
14 veteran population.
15 We have several expert panels before us
16 today. And I want to thank them for being here.
17 As well I would like to thank DMVA
18 Commandant Blackwood for hosting us at this beautiful
19 state veterans' home. We look forward to touring the
20 facility later this afternoon, or this morning, whenever
21 we're done.
22 Today is rather landmark in that for the
23 first time since my tenure in the House of
24 Representatives, we have both the House Veteran Affairs
25 and Emergency Preparedness Committee and the House Aging Page: 6 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 and Older Adult Service Committee joined together to
2 examine the needs or our aging veteran population.
3 I think it's a great opportunity for both
4 Committees and the Department to get a full picture of
5 current programs and the existing needs of our veteran
6 community and their families and to strengthen our
7 ability to work together towards a common goal, which is
8 to help residents of our great Commonwealth and to assist
9 them in their time of need.
10 With that, I will now turn over the
11 microphone to Majority Chairman Tim Hennessey for remarks
12 and then followed by Chairman Chris Sainato and then
13 Chairman Samuelson. Okay.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Thank you
15 very much.
16 And good morning, everyone. Welcome to
17 Southeastern Veterans' Center. Welcome to my District.
18 Let me first say that this has been a
19 pleasure to be here at Southeast Veterans' Center in my
20 district for all these many years, since 2002, I think I
21 took over, when, with redistricting, I had assigned to me
22 East Vincent Township.
23 And with that, came the opportunity to sit
24 on the advisory committee here at Southeast Veterans'
25 Center as a representative of the speaker of the house, Page: 7 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 presently Mike Turzai.
2 And I report back to him in terms of the
3 issues that arise here at Southeast Veterans' Center.
4 I will say that it is one of the finest
5 veterans' centers in Pennsylvania. We have a very proud
6 history and a proud tradition.
7 We've got a wonderful staff and
8 administrative staff here at Southeast and we take
9 fantastic care of our veterans.
10 You're going to see the new facility as
11 part of the tour in a little bit. I refer to it the
12 Alzheimer's unit, it's really a much broader focus on
13 mental health issues for our veterans here. But it's a
14 building that opened about five or six years ago.
15 I was under the impression it was costing
16 $30 million. I'm told by the time it was done, it was
17 closer to maybe $60 million.
18 But it is a fantastic new building and new
19 enterprise here at Southeast Veterans' Center.
20 So keep your eyes open. Enjoy the tour.
21 You're going to see a very, very fine home here.
22 I appreciate Chairman Barrar agreeing that
23 we do a joint hearing today on aging issues and aging
24 programs as they affect the veteran population.
25 It's a focus that we haven't really put on Page: 8 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 things specifically before. And we're happy to do that
2 today.
3 And I want to again welcome you all here to
4 my district. And those of you who didn't apply for a
5 daily visa, I'm going to waive that obligation today.
6 You don't need that visa to be here in the 26th District.
7 Thank you.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Chairman
9 Sainato.
10 MINORITY CHAIRMAN SAINATO: Thank you,
11 Chairman Barrar, Chairman Hennessey. It is a privilege
12 to be in the 26th District and to be here today.
13 I know our committee toured this, I think
14 around six, seven years ago. And there was things under
15 construction and we saw things then. So we look forward
16 to that today. Look forward to the testimony.
17 And it's just great to see so many of our
18 colleagues participating today. We thank each and every
19 one of you for coming for this important hearing.
20 So thank you.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you,
22 Chairman Sainato. I absolutely, I'd like to thank the
23 members for the great turnout that we have here today
24 amongst both committees here.
25 At this time, I will call up Deputy Page: 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Commandant Mildred Butler-Coleman for some welcoming
2 remarks.
3 Thank you. Welcome.
4 MS. BUTLER-COLEMAN: Thank you very much.
5 Welcome on behalf of the Department of Military and
6 Veterans Affairs, we welcome you to -
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Would you
8 take a seat.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Just so you have
10 a microphone.
11 MS. BUTLER-COLEMAN: Thank you very much.
12 On behalf of the Department of Military and
13 Veterans Affairs, we welcome you to the Southeast
14 Veterans' Center in beautiful Chester County.
15 We've been serving veterans since 1986.
16 That's when this first building opened and then we have
17 the newer building that you'll tour in a couple hours, if
18 you so desire.
19 We'll be doing tours. But we wanted to let
20 you know that we serve 290 veterans or spouses of
21 veterans. Those are the criteria we have for admission.
22 If you're not a vet, but you're a spouse of a vet, you're
23 welcome to come here.
24 Most of our vets -- we have 290 that we are
25 licensed to serve; 50 on a personal care level, which are Page: 10 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 more independent boarding home level residents; and then
2 we have the balance of 235 or so that are in our skilled
3 nursing area, which is more of a medical assisted kind of
4 unit.
5 After the official hearing, you'll be
6 welcome to stay for lunch. And we'll be serving lunch in
7 our resident mess hall; that's military lingo. And you
8 will be escorted to the dining area where you'll be able
9 to enjoy lunch with the veterans.
10 The personal care guys and gals eat in the
11 Tilghman Hall and you'll be able to have lunch with them
12 and it will be cafeteria style. So we'll be escorting
13 you down. We'll have you get a tray and join everybody
14 and have lunch.
15 And just so you know, around 11 o'clock -
16 this is a medical facility with regulations, as you well
17 know, we have a fire drill which will be up on the fourth
18 floor, right above our heads about three floors up.
19 It's just for that unit. If you hear bells
20 ring, it'll be okay. Continue on. Hopefully it won't
21 interfere with the mic or your ability to be able to
22 communicate.
23 But the fourth floor has to do their annual
24 fire drill. It's part of the regulation and we want to
25 be compliant. So we thank you in advance for your Page: 11 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 consideration in that particular event.
2 Any questions, I'll be in the area and you
3 can just grab me and I'll be happy to assist.
4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Great.
5 MS. BUTLER-COLEMAN: Thank you, sir.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you.
7 Okay. At this time, I call up Major
8 General Eric Weller, who is the Pennsylvania Deputy
9 Adjutant General for Veteran Affairs under the Department
10 of Military and Veteran Affairs.
11 It is a pleasure to have you here with us
12 today, General. And thank you for taking time out of
13 your busy schedule to be with us.
14 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Thank you very much,
15 sir. I appreciate that.
16 I've got my crutch here with me, Mr. Hamp,
17 my special assistant, in case anybody asks anything
18 above -- any questions above a high school level, he's
19 the guy to answer them, so...
20 I'll jump right into it if that's okay.
21 Good morning, Committee Chairs, Committee Members. It's
22 a pleasure to be here with you.
23 And I know you're also fellow advocates of
24 Pennsylvania's 820,000 veterans. You know, I'm really
25 glad that you've allowed me to come here in order to help Page: 12 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 promote veterans' advocacy.
2 I've been on the job for about 21 months.
3 I've obviously had the opportunity to work with a lot of
4 dedicated people in the Office of Veterans Affairs.
5 I've had the honor and privilege of meeting
6 members of all of the various service organizations
7 throughout the State, two of which are represented here
8 today, Mr. Getz from the VSW -- or VFW and Mr. Foster
9 from the American Legion.
10 Again, they're our brothers in arms, and I
11 absolutely appreciate the fact that you are giving them
12 an opportunity to speak today.
13 I've had the opportunity to meet with the
14 State Veterans Commission about once every two months,
15 the Pennsylvania War Council about once every two months,
16 the County Commissioners on a quarterly basis, the county
17 directors for Veterans Affairs or their executive board
18 about every two months.
19 I've had the opportunity to meet with a ton
20 of 5013(c)s. And if you didn't know it, there's about
21 6,000 of them out there. And I can't say that I know
22 every one of them, but I'm trying.
23 And then I've also had the opportunity to
24 meet with, obviously, various legislators such as
25 yourself. Page: 13 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 I've noticed a lot of collaboration between
2 all of the organizations. And, quite frankly, I'm
3 overwhelmed with just trying to get my arms around
4 everybody that is supporting veterans.
5 Our mission as it relates to veterans
6 benefits are to create awareness that benefits exist, to
7 educate people on what those benefits are and to help
8 provide accessibility to those benefits. And then,
9 obviously, we have a legislative responsibility to care
10 for our veterans.
11 DMVA, therefore, is basically funded to
12 handle three things: Number 1 is we do have a benefits
13 program, which we call program services; we run basically
14 grant-type programs for people, blind and paralyzed
15 veterans, amputees, that type of stuff, all through State
16 funding.
17 We also have an outreach program and then
18 we run or administer six veterans home, all of which I'll
19 talk about in a moment.
20 So what I can do and what I -- also what I
21 cannot do. Number 1, I just want to frame what my job is
22 or what it is not.
23 First of all, I can't afford to discount
24 anybody or dislike anybody. You know, obviously,
25 everybody has an ego and my job is to try to get Page: 14 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 everybody -- everybody's egos in check and working
2 together with each other, no matter who are you or what
3 organization you're from.
4 I don't write legislation. I don't direct
5 the county directors for Veterans Affairs. I don't
6 direct the county commissioners.
7 I don't direct the veterans service
8 organizations. I don't direct the 5013(c)s or other
9 state governments and sometimes even other agencies
10 within DMVA.
11 But I can interact with all of these
12 people. I can interact and try to get them to work
13 together as I've alluded.
14 Therefore, messaging is the big part of
15 our -- I believe it's one of our highest priorities,
16 sales and messaging, I should say.
17 Some of the priority issues that we're
18 working on now are preserving the Office of Veterans
19 Affairs' budget, supporting a regionalization concept,
20 which I'll talk more about in a moment, supporting mental
21 health initiatives to the best that we can.
22 And as you know, we are not funded to
23 support any of them actually. So we're trying to get
24 creative on what we can do.
25 And then also another priority is to Page: 15 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 establish outreach into the rural areas for additional
2 capacity for veterans homes.
3 As you know, we took a significant cut in
4 the 2017-2018 budget and that prompted a lot of studies.
5 Specifically, it made us look internally,
6 number 1, to justify all the manpower that we have. I
7 have about 2,000 employees; most of them are associated
8 with the state veterans homes.
9 But I can tell you the function of each and
10 every one of them. I can tell you why they exist, either
11 through federal, state, local regulations, industrial
12 standards.
13 I can give you the time measurements, you
14 know, in relation to why I need so many custodians in a
15 building, the whole nine yards.
16 So I have justified the people that we
17 have. So that question is off the table.
18 Another thing that we've done is taken the
19 time to provide a five-year plan, mainly to the
20 Governor's budget office.
21 And then we also did cost studies. There
22 was a lot of talk about the expense of the state veterans
23 homes.
24 So we took the time to do a cost study,
25 number 1, to determine whether or not compared to the Page: 16 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 private economy if we are or are not charging too much
2 money or spending too much money.
3 So what we found is on the skilled care
4 side of the house, we actually cost about $5 less per day
5 per resident.
6 On the private care -- or personal care
7 side, we're about $20 less per day.
8 And then there was a lot of talk about
9 privatization. And so what we found there was that,
10 again, we're significantly less, on the average about $20
11 less per day if somebody would go ahead and try to
12 privatize our entire state veterans homes operation.
13 And then we did compare ourselves with, you
14 know, other state agencies and -- that have a similar
15 operation and actually found that we're running about a
16 hundred dollars a day less per resident per day.
17 So how did we manage last year? It was
18 very easy. I knew what I had to work with. I knew how
19 many employees it would take to manage a certain number
20 of veterans in our state homes, depending on the level of
21 care that they needed. And that's basically how we
22 managed.
23 Less employees means less veterans that we
24 can take care of, more -- or more employees, more
25 veterans we can take care of. Page: 17 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 The nice thing about it is the Governor's
2 budget office has told us, you know, you keep putting
3 veterans in the homes and we'll help you find money.
4 That's very refreshing for us.
5 So this year, in this budget, we fared out
6 fairly well. We did receive at least a cost of living
7 increase, if you will.
8 We also received a $500,000 increase in our
9 Act 66 program. That's a program where we actually fund
10 veteran service officers throughout the state to help
11 veterans file mainly for their federal and sometimes
12 state benefits.
13 Just to give you an idea, that 500,000
14 takes us up to 2.8 million as far as funding those
15 individuals.
16 We have over a hundred of them that we
17 fund. And as far as a return on investment -- which a
18 lot of people don't look at -- return on investment is
19 roughly $1 invested, $35 comes back into the state,
20 mainly for the veteran.
21 But the first time the veteran spends that
22 dollar and keeps spending and keeps spending, it just has
23 to change hands about ten times and it becomes total
24 state dollars. So 1 in 35 is fantastic, in my opinion.
25 And if I could invest in the program and Page: 18 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 get that return, I certainly would.
2 As far as, again, as far as our budget, we
3 also received a $100,000 increase for the Civil Air
4 Patrol. That doesn't have really anything do the
5 Department of Military and Veterans Affairs; we're more
6 or less a pass-through on that.
7 And then we also received a $750,000
8 legislative add for mental health initiatives. Again,
9 that was provided by the legislator. It is directed
10 dollars, if you will.
11 But we've been told if we can manage to get
12 that into our budget and come up with a plan as to how we
13 would help contribute towards dealing with issues such as
14 just mental health issues, PTSD, drug and alcohol issues,
15 TBI, those types of things, that that money might start
16 appearing on an annual basis.
17 So that's another focus that we've been
18 looking at. The bottom line is we need your continued
19 support and thank you for your past support.
20 You know, some new programs of records that
21 we'd like to establish or other things that we've been
22 doing over the past year, as I've mentioned, you know,
23 we've been starting to address or come up with a plan on
24 how to look at mental health, drug and alcohol addiction,
25 PTSD, homelessness, suicide prevention, you know, Page: 19 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 partnerships by expanding the reach of our veterans homes
2 and the potential -- the potentials there would be
3 potential county -- or partnerships with the existing
4 county homes or the potential of building smaller homes
5 in more -- veterans homes in more rural areas or the one
6 that looks actually most interesting right now is some
7 sort of a partnership with private care facilities,
8 contracting out, you know, perhaps an existing wing in
9 their facility and working with the federal VA to make
10 sure we've got all the right reimbursements in place.
11 And then another initiative that we've got
12 going is a startup for adult health day care.
13 And actually at this veterans home is where
14 we're going to start our pilot program. And that should,
15 hopefully, be a reality within the next two years.
16 We've already laid the groundwork in case
17 it is a success to establish another adult health day
18 care facility in Hollidaysburg.
19 Other things that we're looking at as it
20 relates to especially the service organizations and what
21 they're interested in are issues such as aging in place,
22 potential privatization of some aspects of various
23 veterans operations.
24 We spend a lot of time with incarcerated
25 veterans. We do a lot of outreach in the prisons, Page: 2 0 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 especially the ones that have the veteran service units.
2 We've been corresponding and are meeting a
3 lot with AOPC as it relates to veterans' courts.
4 And, quite frankly, we've committed to once
5 they start expanding their program -- and, again, they're
6 looking at regionalizing the remaining counties that
7 don't have a veterans court.
8 We've offered assistance in relation to
9 marketing and/or helping them stand up mentorship
10 programs for each of one of those courts.
11 We're also looking at, with the DOC at
12 post-sentence testing for incarcerated veterans.
13 Through all of this, though, what do I see?
14 And, quite frankly, I see a lot of good organizations
15 doing a lot of good things on behalf of veterans.
16 Another thing I see is a lot of good people
17 and organizations doing a lot of good things on behalf of
18 veterans that don't network with each other.
19 So as I've been looking at this, I ask
20 myself the question Does everybody know everything? And
21 the answer is no.
22 And what are some of the keys to success?
23 Number 1 is to organize and number 2 is to educate,
24 number 3 would be to provide an information -- or a forum
25 for information exchange. Page: 21 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 So as I'm looking at how we're going to
2 move into the future, I keep asking myself the question
3 Am I going to receive more money in my budget?
4 I don't know the answer to that, so I have
5 to take the negative side and say, I probably won't. I'm
6 hoping that I do, but I probably won't.
7 So does that mean that my job ends, though?
8 And I refer back to those issues that I was talking about
9 earlier, the items that I'm not funded to take care of or
10 participate in, all the mental health issues,
11 homelessness, so on and so forth.
12 So as a result, I keep asking myself What
13 is out there already that we can tap into? And, you
14 know, quite frankly the basis for what I think that we
15 need to tap into from our organization is a lot of the
16 premiere 5013(c)s. And I'll name a few of them in just a
17 moment.
18 But anyway so we're documenting a plan
19 where we've divided the state in about five regions that
20 house at least two of these premiere organizations in
21 each region.
22 Who better than to know the issues in their
23 region than these 5013(c)s?
24 So anyways, I'll just give you an example
25 of some of them: Veterans Leadership Program out of Page: 22 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Pittsburgh; Veterans Community Initiatives out Johnstown;
2 YWCA out of Harrisburg.
3 I know you're asking yourself why YWCA?
4 What's that got to do with anything? Well, I'll tell
5 you.
6 Veterans Multi-Service Center Philadelphia,
7 Multi-Service Center Central Pennsylvania, Lackawanna
8 Workforce Development, Veterans Resource Coalition, an
9 organization called HANDS up in Erie, another
10 organization called COATS up in Erie, another
11 organization near here, Lehigh Valley Military Affairs
12 Council.
13 The bottom line is what do each one of
14 these organizations have in common? Basically the basis
15 for each one of those organizations is to deal with
16 homelessness.
17 So what else do they deal with? And that's
18 my next question. Well, the contributing factor towards
19 homelessness.
20 And that's where we get into all of the
21 other things that we're not funded to deal with here:
22 TBI, PTSD, drug and alcohol issues, lack of employment,
23 so on and so forth.
24 So anyways all of these organizations are
25 involved in either providing direct or indirect referrals Page: 23 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 for homeless people that have those types of issues.
2 So, yes, I should get my arms around them
3 pretty quick. And that's what I plan on doing.
4 And my goal is to provide a forum for all
5 of these organizations, including the county directors,
6 state offices, service organizations and other 5013(c)s
7 to cross-tell.
8 Another goal is to provide a forum for
9 direct interaction between these agencies. Another goal
10 is to find out what all the holes are in each region that
11 I can help plug.
12 You know, the bottom line, though, is I
13 really want to set up an informational network so that I
14 have, let's say, a county director up in Erie that's got
15 a veteran that has a severe PTSD issue that he or she
16 knows that there's actually an organization out there
17 that can help them, a 5013(c) maybe down in Quakertown,
18 Pennsylvania or in Lancaster because that information is
19 just not available in any one spot.
20 So back to the framework of my job. The
21 bottom line is I don't want to be a figurehead. Talk is
22 cheap. There's all at-stake effort. And I'm willing to
23 put forth the effort.
24 I'm very grateful for the participation
25 and/or support of the legislators, state agencies, PA War Page: 24 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Council, State Veterans Commission.
2 Another organization which I chair, the
3 Governor Advisory Council for Veterans Services, which is
4 made up of a lot of state agencies divided into various
5 committees, aging committee, education and employment
6 committee, behavioral health committee, judiciary
7 committee, office of administration committee, suicide
8 prevention committee.
9 That's where we are able to get a lot of
10 the state agencies together and cross-pollinate. And all
11 I'm really doing when I talk about regionalization is
12 looking for a way to start including everybody else in
13 that type of forum.
14 I'm also thankful for all of the people
15 that participate in the home advisory councils, county
16 directors for Veterans Affairs, county commissioners, all
17 the 5013(c)s and all the service organizations especially
18 that are in your counties.
19 Bottom line is we need to do a better job
20 in telling our story. I tell all the veterans
21 organizations that we have a voice, but unless we speak
22 cohesively, nobody's going to listen to us.
23 And why is it so important? Well, the
24 example I give is in relation to veterans issues at the
25 state and federal level, 40, 50 years ago, above 70 Page: 25 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 percent of our legislators were veterans.
2 Now we're down to about 2 0 percent;
3 therefore, we need to get out and not only educate all of
4 you, but people in all of the other agencies in relation
5 to what it is to be a veteran.
6 So as a private citizen and a veteran, I
7 thank you for speaking on our behalf.
8 God bless you. God bless the Commonwealth.
9 And I'm ready for any questions or Mr. Hamp
10 is ready for any questions.
11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Tim, did you
12 have questions?
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: The adult
14 health day care center, have you guys spoken with
15 Manatawny Manor, three or four miles down the road?
16 Because I think they would be interested in
17 partnering with you to have some sort of a day care
18 program. I've talked to them before and they have an
19 interest. So it's one asset you might want to keep in
20 mind or resource.
21 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Copy that. Yes,
22 sir.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Okay. Thank
24 you. Thank you very much for your testimony.
25 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir. Page: 2 6 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Do have any
2 follow-up on Chairman Hennessey's comments about the
3 adult day care?
4 This is really an important program out
5 there. As this is incorporated, hopefully, in into all
6 our veterans state homes, are you looking at in this, are
7 you looking at transportation?
8 Exactly how will -- you how do you approach
9 who you're going to accept and who you're not? How are
10 we going to get them here and get them home?
11 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Well, actually we've
12 established a radius. I can't tell you what that it is
13 off the top of my head.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay.
15 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: But anyways we'll
16 bring in people from within that radius and it'll be kind
17 of a medical profile for our adult health day care.
18 We'll be able to go pick them up, bring
19 them here, take care of any needs or issues that they
20 have during the day, not just to have them here to
21 entertain them.
22 I mean, we'll be able to, you know, bring
23 people who are, you know, in that type of situation where
24 they actually need supervision and/or help.
25 So it's not just going to be a place to, Page: 2 7 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 you know, drop your child off or -- you know what I mean.
2 It's not like a day care center in that regard. So and
3 then at the end of the day, we'll be taking them back
4 home again.
5 We also will receive federal reimbursement
6 for a significant portion of that program. So, you know,
7 we're hoping that it's going to be cost neutral.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Are the feds -
9 I know the feds are putting money into this.
10 Do you see that possibly being an expanding
11 pool of money that will be available to the state for
12 this type of program?
13 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir. Yeah. In
14 fact, I believe there -- as it exists right now, you
15 know, that's where saying we think it's going to cost
16 neutral. They're actually look at increasing the dollar
17 amount.
18 You know, we should be able to -- you know,
19 we won't have to scrimp it. I mean, it should be
20 mostly -- mostly total federal reimbursement is...
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Yeah. I think
22 there's a savings there in the sense that you're not
23 admitting them full time into the home here where they're
24 here for a day-care type situation and they're going back
25 home to their, you know, to their family, which is I Page: 2 8 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 think a -- I don't know how you calculate that savings.
2 But I'm pretty sure it's a savings, if they
3 can do, you know, kind of like the community care that we
4 do in some of the other programs that I'm sure Tim's more
5 familiar with.
6 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Sure. Yeah. Well,
7 actually what we're -- what we're doing now within our
8 homes -- and what we're finding is the preponderance of
9 people that we get in are really -- they're in dire
10 straights. They're with us for less than two years.
11 But anyways most of the people require a
12 skilled care setting. We did have personal care
13 throughout all of our homes. But, again, the need is
14 more on a skilled care side of the house.
15 So we've started reducing the number of
16 personal care beds, you know, to increase where their
17 need really is.
18 So I'm not saying that adult health day
19 care takes the place of personal care, but it will help
20 offset that.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Great.
22 Chairman Sainato, questions?
23 MINORITY CHAIRMAN SAINATO: No. I just
24 want to thank you for your testimony. I think it was
25 very enlightening. We thank you for your service, sir. Page: 2 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Thank you, sir.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. Let me
3 start with Representative Barbin.
4 REPRESENTATIVE BARBIN: Thank you,
5 Mr. Chairman. Thank you, General Weller.
6 Do you expect in, you know, the next ten
7 years that the amount of applications that go to the -
8 we have the six veterans homes, do you expect those to
9 increase based on our 820,000 veterans and our 3.5
10 million number for the families?
11 Do you plan for an increase in population
12 of people that we'll need to serve?
13 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: We're assuming that
14 there will be an increased need. And, quite frankly, the
15 focus here is probably going to start shifting at some
16 point where we're going to be getting people that have
17 other issues besides just aging.
18 People that have, you know, the PTSD issues
19 that also require a long-term care setting, you know,
20 those types of things. So, yeah, we think that,
21 number 1, the need is going to increase.
22 But then the other thing that we're trying
23 to address is the fact that, you know, we don't serve a
24 lot of the rural areas, especially in central
25 Pennsylvania. Well, actually Central PA and then along Page: 3 0 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 the northern tier.
2 So we're trying to, you know, address all
3 of those types of things. And that's where I talked
4 about, you know, looking for a way to cut costs, but at
5 the same time provide a service.
6 And that might be a partnership with the
7 county homes or partnership with private care facilities
8 or just building smaller facilities in those regions.
9 REPRESENTATIVE BARBIN: Well, I only have
10 one comment. And I appreciate your testimony today.
11 This morning as I was driving in, I was
12 listening to National Public Radio and one of the stories
13 they had was about Carson Long Institute. And that
14 serves, or did serve, as a veterans school and that their
15 students are now moving to Valley Forge.
16 But they're listing that property for $4
17 million. And it is located, conveniently -- you know, I
18 used to live in Perry County -- it's right off of New
19 Bloomfield off of 322.
20 And since we know we're going to have
21 needs, whether they're mental health issue needs or
22 whether there are going to be additional people that need
23 senior health care needs, we should look at that because
24 we lost a facility that we could have used with the
25 Scotland School for Veterans Children. Page: 31 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 And I'm just asking that you take a look at
2 that facility because at $4 million, that would seem to
3 be a good expenditure to deal with the long-term problems
4 that we're going to need to address for veterans.
5 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir.
6 REPRESENTATIVE BARBIN: Thank you.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay.
8 Representative DeLissio.
9 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Thank you,
10 Chairman.
11 General, I could chat with you all day.
12 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Oh, okay. I look
13 forward to it.
14 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: In no -
15 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Do you have any
16 money?
17 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: I'm sorry?
18 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: No, I'm just
19 kidding.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: We're going to
21 ask you to keep it to five minutes, though.
22 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: I'll do better
23 than that. I've worked with Chairman Hennessey.
24 In no particular order, I would urge you to
25 look at these public/private partnerships that come out Page: 32 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 of the long-term care field times 30 years.
2 And, you know, some of the programs that
3 you talk about are well-established on the private
4 sector.
5 So to the degree that you can find ways to
6 work together, learn from someone else's mistakes, layer
7 on what the subset of veteran older adults may need may
8 help to expedite some of your vision becoming a reality.
9 To that end, I would encourage you, when
10 you talked about networking, there is a 211 system in
11 Pennsylvania -- and I was trying to look up on my phone,
12 but I didn't have Internet here -- to see if that 211
13 network might actually be a resource for your veteran
14 officers out in the counties who are trying to help
15 disseminate information.
16 So if the 211 system currently doesn't have
17 veteran specific information, maybe that's something that
18 can be added to that system to help.
19 I would be curious when you mentioned costs
20 and that these costs are competitive with or more
21 efficient than the private sector.
22 General, I would be interested in seeing
23 those numbers behind that because I know I sat at an
24 appropriations hearing a few years back and that didn't
25 seem to be the case a few years ago, at least for some of Page: 33 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 the veteran centers. So I would be curious about that.
2 And then in terms of is there currently a
3 waiting list for the facility-based services, the
4 personal care and the skilled care that's currently
5 offered?
6 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes. There is a
7 waiting listing, mostly on the non-veteran side of the
8 house.
9 You know, based on federal, you know,
10 guidance and/or standards, I have to -- 75 percent of my
11 residents have to be a veteran, a veteran with benefits,
12 I should say.
13 So the other 25 percent, you know,
14 generally would be funded either through themselves or
15 with, you know, some form of state funding maybe or
16 whatever.
17 But the bottom line is in order to drive
18 costs down, we've limited ourselves to 12 percent
19 non-veterans.
20 So most of the people that you see on our
21 waiting list are what we would call non-veterans,
22 generally they're either spouses of veterans, man or
23 woman, or they're what's classified as a veteran without
24 benefits.
25 And that might be a reservist who's, you Page: 34 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 know, never deployed overseas.
2 So veterans have preference basically is
3 what I'm trying to get at as far as accessibility to our
4 homes.
5 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: And then my last
6 question: Has the Department ever considered or does the
7 Department have within its resources currently, offer any
8 type of independent-living setting for veterans or a
9 continuing care retirement community type of setting
10 where folks may come in earlier and as a result of your
11 resources, remain healthier longer before they may need
12 these other levels of care and services that are more
13 intense and, therefore, more costly?
14 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Right. We don't
15 have any programs.
16 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Thank you,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you.
19 We've been joined by Chairman Samuelson and
20 also by Representative Costa have come in since we've
21 done introductions.
22 Okay. Next question from Representative
23 Saccone.
24 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: Thank you,
25 Chairman. Thank you, General Weller -- Page: 35 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Sure.
2 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: -- for what you do
3 for our veterans.
4 You talked a little bit about telling our
5 story, getting the word out. How's our veterans registry
6 program doing?
7 I know General Carrelli is a big fan of
8 that. He carries these little cards around with him too.
9 I still carry mine around.
10 He's been an inspiration for me to do that.
11 And when I meet people who don't know about what's going
12 on with our veterans programs, we try to get them into
13 the program.
14 What's the increase been? Have we been
15 doing well with that? Is the program working?
16 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: We have -- there's
17 approximately 12,000 people signed up, you know, for that
18 program.
19 Obviously, we'd like to see is it increase,
20 but -- and we're trying to think of ways to get that
21 number to increase.
22 I guess, though, putting it perspective,
23 one number that I will say that I see out there that
24 comes from the federal side of the house, it basically
25 says that about half of 820,000 veterans in our state, a Page: 3 6 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 little bit less than half, are aware of at least the
2 federal benefits, maybe not quite so aware of the state
3 benefits.
4 So the issue's kind of been addressed.
5 But, you know, we want to increase our number of 12,000
6 and get that much higher. So we're trying to think of
7 additional ways to market that, market that program.
8 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: So let me suggest
9 to you that, you know, we have 203 representatives and 50
10 Senators, they have all web pages.
11 We all have -- I bet most of us have
12 veteran service officers in our offices, you know, at
13 least once a month.
14 We can advertise that. We can help
15 advertise that. Some of us already do, I know.
16 But maybe you should work with our PR
17 section in the house and the Senate to advertise that out
18 because we reach lots of constituents, you know, and it
19 may help to expand the number that join, register for
20 that.
21 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Okay.
22 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: Thank you.
23 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. Thank
25 you. Page: 3 7 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Representative Ryan.
2 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: Sir, I think in the
3 interest of time there, I'll keep a couple of the
4 questions real quick. The other ones, I think we can do
5 at the end.
6 General, you and I had talked at a prior
7 hearing about the cost to duplicate what Representative
8 DeLissio said and the reports that I have examined showed
9 that the cost of the state facilities from a labor
10 component were substantially higher than the cost of
11 outside agencies.
12 And the question I was asking is where are
13 the cost of the facilities shown, the cost of post
14 retirement benefits, which did not appear from my
15 analysis and from work that I had done, I had some
16 reports I had from the Auditor General's staff.
17 It seems as if they are shown different
18 places in the budget either being absorbed by the federal
19 government.
20 And that's not to say that any of us think
21 that the money could be spent any better. I happen to
22 believe that you get an acuity of care that's
23 significantly more complex than most senior facilities
24 see, although Representative DeLissio would know better
25 than I. Page: 3 8 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 And so the question I have for you is I had
2 asked a number of questions at that point about where
3 some of these costs were showing up so we could really
4 determine what the level of cost structure was so that
5 those of us who either have an accounting background or a
6 long-term care background could really take a look to
7 make sure that the veterans are being served properly.
8 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir. I'm not
9 quite sure how to answer that.
10 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: We can do it offline.
11 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yeah.
12 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: If you prefer because
13 it's a complicated question.
14 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Actually, I do want
15 to answer the question, though. We publish our costs, I
16 call it the Farmer's Almanac. But what is it?
17 MR. HAMP: The Pennsylvania Bulletin.
18 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Pennsylvania
19 Bulletin.
20 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: That's it. That's
21 it.
22 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Okay. So but that's
23 an all inclusive cost. I mean, that's everything.
24 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: That's good.
25 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: That doesn't take Page: 3 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 into account, you know, reimbursements of any type,
2 whether it's state, federal, local, whatever. That's
3 just -- I'm just telling you what my total cost is.
4 So when we did a cost comparison in
5 relation to, you know, cost data, I mean, we actually got
6 that information, cost datasheets at all the private care
7 facilities and every facility that has long-term care
8 reports on.
9 And what we found when we looked at that
10 particular sheet was that a lot of costs were not
11 included, you know, i.e., transportation to and from the
12 hospital, cost of a haircut, cost of -- I saw you took
13 advantage of that.
14 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: Yeah. I got the
15 haircut this morning.
16 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Right. Cost of
17 pharmacy. But the point is it's a cost. It's a cost to
18 the veteran.
19 So once you start -- you know, so at first
20 we were comparing apples to oranges and, yeah, yeah,
21 based on the raw numbers, oh, my God, we were twice as
22 much as everybody else.
23 But when you start comparing apples to
24 apples and consider the cost to the veteran, that's where
25 we're actually lower than everybody else. Page: 4 0 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Now, as far as the cost of care, I can tell
2 you that our PPD rates are at 3.8 for dementia-type
3 patients or 3.2 for skill care and 1.0 for personal care.
4 That's only direct care workers. That does
5 not include anybody else. That's the CNAs, the LPNs, the
6 RNs. That doesn't include the accountants or lawyers or
7 people like me, you know what I mean.
8 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: Sure.
9 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: So, again, our
10 endeavor was not only provide a direct apples-to-apples
11 comparison, but also guarantee that we are when we say
12 we're providing this level of care, that's exactly what
13 we're doing.
14 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: No. In fact, I
15 appreciate that.
16 That's actually some of the things I wanted
17 to get to is that on the Veterans Affairs side of this,
18 we've had discussions in the past, as an example, when a
19 Pennsylvania National Guardsman deploys, is the federal
20 government really reimbursing us for the full cost.
21 And this is part of the area where I don't
22 believe the federal government is. And that as a result,
23 the reimbursement rates, while they appear to be a
24 reimbursement rate at a standard rate, is certainly well
25 below the cost of care. Page: 41 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 So as a result, then, Pennsylvania
2 taxpayers are subsidizing it. Concurrent with that,
3 frequently the veteran is -- we're trying to do more and
4 more with less and less to the point where we're
5 expecting you to do everything with nothing.
6 And so as a result what I really want to do
7 is sit down, dissect the cost, find out as an example
8 there may be problems in the reimbursement rates on the
9 private sector where I hear that concern on a regular
10 basis in our committee meetings.
11 So I would enjoy working with you. But I
12 would like to go over the questions that I asked a number
13 of months ago because I still think -- and Representative
14 DeLissio, I'd like to work with you on that because I've
15 got the accounting end of it; I don't have the long-term
16 care end of it.
17 I just think that there's a component of
18 this that we're missing that's costing a lot more, not in
19 terms of total cost, but in terms of reimbursement from
20 the state vis-a-vis what might be coming back from the
21 federal government.
22 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Right. And part of
23 the issues there is, you know, when I refer to veterans
24 without benefits, actually that's a step in the right
25 direction as far as federal legislation. Page: 42 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Previously, those people are were not
2 considered veterans at all. And, again, I refer to
3 reservists that have not deployed or hold a DD214 card.
4 So step one was just to get them -- get
5 people to acknowledge them as a veteran. I call them
6 veterans without benefits.
7 So you're right, they don't get -- they
8 don't qualify for benefits. But at least they're known
9 as veterans.
10 So I think step two on the federal side,
11 which I believe some of the legislators are looking to
12 attack, is adding that benefits part on to those people.
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay.
14 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: Thank you, sir.
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Great. Thank
16 you.
17 Representative Gillen, please.
18 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: General Weller, you
19 had mentioned maintenance fees and residence fees and I
20 was curious as to the trend line. I think you mentioned
21 in your testimony that only 2 percent of the residents
22 are actually paying the real cost of their care?
23 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir.
24 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: What is the trend,
25 what has the trend been in terms of their being able to Page: 43 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 cover cost of care?
2 I'm gathering since it's at a 2 percent
3 level, the trend line had to have been down.
4 And do you anticipate a decline over time
5 and resident's ability to participate in the cost of
6 their care and how will that affect your budget if indeed
7 the trend line is down, I'm gathering, maybe
8 substantially so over time?
9 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: I'm not sure the
10 best way to answer the question.
11 I can tell you that on the average,
12 actually in both personal and skilled care, on the
13 average across the board, people pay about $40 per day
14 for their care out of their own pocket.
15 So the remaining amount either we get
16 reimbursement either through state funding, federal
17 funding or, you know, some other type of insurance.
18 I think that's been holding fairly steady.
19 We keep a close eye on that, though. And what we're
20 trying to do is drive up the federal reimbursements so
21 that we can drive down the cost to the state, if that
22 makes sense.
23 So I think in answer to your question, I
24 think we're kind of level on the average of what people
25 in our facilities can pay. Page: 44 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 At the same time, though, we're trying to
2 drive up the federal reimbursement cost. And the
3 question is: How are we doing that?
4 Well, we're going back and looking at
5 veterans that are currently in our homes, you know, as
6 their health may decline, refile for additional benefits
7 is really what it boils down to.
8 So we're constantly looking or we're
9 starting to constantly look at their medical records,
10 their medical issues. And the more benefits that we can
11 file for for reimbursement on the federal side, you know,
12 the less we pay on the state side.
13 But as far as the average, I would say it's
14 maintained at probably the same for about the last three
15 years.
16 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay. Thank you,
17 General.
18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: General, what is
20 the federal per diem rate at this point right now? Do
21 you know? The reimbursement rate?
22 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Oh, again, I can
23 only speak in broad numbers, but roughly half of our
24 budget is federal reimbursement, so if my budget's -
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: But you get a Page: 45 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 per diem per veteran per year?
2 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Right. Well, each
3 veterans varies.
4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Oh, okay.
5 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Some may be a
6 hundred percent reimbursement. Others, you know, may be
7 5 0 percent. It just depends on the veteran.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: We're falling
9 behind on our schedule. Can you stay around until the
10 end of the hearing?
11 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Or do you have
13 plans to leave? Okay.
14 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: My plan is to -
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Great. If you
16 can stay, maybe we can get back there. There are several
17 other people that have asked to ask questions, but I'd
18 really like to get to Secretary Osborne.
19 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. Thank
21 you.
22 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: Yes, sir.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Thank you,
24 General. Thank you, Rick.
25 Madame Secretary. Page: 4 6 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 While the Secretary takes her place at the
2 table, let me just say that it's a pleasure for me to
3 introduce Secretary Teresa Osborne from, I believe,
4 Lackawanna County.
5 MS. OSBORNE: Yes, sir.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Up in the
7 Poconos.
8 We've known Secretary Osborne as the
9 Secretary of Aging and Older Adult Services in
10 Pennsylvania since 2015 at the beginning of the Wolf
11 Administration.
12 But many of us on the Aging and Older Adult
13 Services Committee have known Teresa for a much longer
14 period of time than that because of her advocacy in
15 Lackawanna County trough the AAA system and I think for
16 some of the senior care centers up there.
17 She's been a strong advocate for our senior
18 population.
19 She's probably going to mention the year
20 2 020. She always works that into her remarks. And it's
21 a significant thing for all of us to remember the size of
22 our senior population growing and ever growing.
23 So with that, let me welcome you to
24 Southeast Veterans' Center here and you can begin your
25 testimony whenever you're ready. Page: 4 7 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MS. OSBORNE: Thanks, Chairman.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Thank you.
3 MS. OSBORNE: Thank you so much to Chairman
4 Hennessey and Chairman Barrar and Samuelson and Sainato.
5 Thank you for the opportunity to be here
6 with you today for what was described in the opening
7 remarks by Chairman Barrar, a landmark joint hearing on
8 programs and assistance for our aging veteran population
9 here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
10 I'm privileged to serve as the Secretary of
11 Aging and thank Chairman Hennesey for his kind words.
12 Our roots do go back pretty far with regard
13 to my testimony at various hearings when the Chairman
14 served as the chair in the Rendell Administration with
15 Phyllis Mundy at that time.
16 And we had several landmark cases of
17 neglect of care-dependent persons that caused the general
18 assembly to make some enhancements to that law. So
19 that's where our paths first crossed.
20 And I'm ever so grateful and privileged to
21 serve in this role today as the Secretary for the
22 Pennsylvania Department of Aging, our Department of Aging
23 is formally charged under federal government via the
24 Older Americans Act, which is celebrating its 53rd
25 anniversary this year and is up for reauthorization in Page: 4 8 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 2019.
2 So next year will be an interesting year
3 with regard to the funding that we receive under the
4 Older Americans Act.
5 We're also charged under the Pennsylvania
6 General Assembly's Act 71. And both of those
7 responsibilities, federal and state combined, calls us to
8 be visible and effective advocates for the interests and
9 well-being of all older Pennsylvanians.
10 The Department of Aging was created in 1978
11 and it serves as the state unit on aging. Every state in
12 the country is required to have a state unit on aging.
13 The structure varies. Pennsylvania
14 historically, since 1978 at least, the last 40 years, has
15 had its state unit on aging representing Pennsylvania's
16 aging population which currently is nearly 3 million
17 people aged 6 0 years of age and older.
18 And I wasn't prepared to comment on that
19 perfect year, that year of perfect vision, 2020. And by
20 that year of perfect vision, the year 2020, one in four
21 Pennsylvanians will be aged 6 0 years of age and older.
22 And in addition to overseeing an array of
23 benefits and services and programs that are made
24 available through our network, our network is comprised
25 of 52 local area Agencies on Aging that cover the 67 Page: 4 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 counties of the Commonwealth, of Pennsylvania.
2 And through that network of Area Agencies
3 on Aging, we ensure that individuals have access to
4 services and supports.
5 All of you I know are familiar with
6 Pennsylvania's benefits and rights book for older
7 Pennsylvanians.
8 And it really is a very popular publication
9 that outlines what the benefits and rights are for older
10 Pennsylvanians, including our aging veterans, which I'll
11 talk about in a little bit more detail.
12 But the Department, under our charge,
13 federally and statewide, we're responsible to represent
14 the Commonwealth's interests and the design, the
15 implementation and the continuous improvement of long
16 term services and supports for older Pennsylvanians
17 across all state agencies.
18 To this end, to Major General Weller's good
19 point that he just raised, it's critical that the
20 Department of Aging works in communication and
21 collaboration and coordination with our sister state
22 agencies.
23 Every day, we recognize that the
24 individuals that we are called to serve include men and
25 women who serve their country. Page: 50 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 They come home and they often struggle.
2 They struggle to locate and access home and community
3 services for which they are eligible.
4 Moreover, in consideration of the very high
5 number of veterans who are aged 60 years and over, and of
6 that 820,000 number that Major General Weller had
7 mentioned, nearly half of those are aged 65 years of age
8 and older.
9 So it's imperative, critically imperative,
10 that the Department of Aging works in tandem with the
11 Pennsylvania Department of Military and Veterans Affairs
12 in particular in order to connect our growing aging
13 population, our aging veterans and their caregivers with
14 the available resources that will help them live and age
15 well with the dignity and respect that they deserve.
16 Those resources need to be better leveraged
17 via federal services and dollars that are available, as
18 the Major General just spoke about, state programs and
19 services as well as local via those public/private
20 partnerships with a vast array of Pennsylvania's
21 non-profit entities.
22 And I'll talk about that a little bit more.
23 But, first, I'll comment on Veterans Day 2013 because it
24 was then that the Governor's Advisory Council on Veterans
25 Services was established. Page: 51 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 It was Pennsylvania's first interagency
2 cooperative approach to veterans services. This council
3 is critical, as Major General Weller had mentioned.
4 It's responsible to review, to evaluate and
5 assess state veterans programs in collaboration with
6 senior staff from all state agencies and commissions.
7 And this approach, this collaborative
8 approach, ensures that information is shared, ensures
9 that program fidelity is met.
10 It coordinates complementary programs and
11 facilitates much more meaningful enhancements and service
12 accessibility to veterans benefits and services within
13 Pennsylvania.
14 As required under this particular advisory
15 council, I was required to designate a key staff member
16 from the Pennsylvania Department of Aging to serve as my
17 designee. That individual is Samantha Cossman.
18 Samantha currently is the northwest
19 Pennsylvania regional coordinator of the Pennsylvania
20 Department of Aging's Aging and Disability Resource
21 Center.
22 Samantha serves as my designee and is thus
23 responsible to be the key person to communicate with me
24 to be certain, but also to be a liaison to this
25 commission in order to ensure that the Department upholds Page: 52 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 its responsibility to provide the council with the
2 support, resources and information necessary in the aging
3 services arena to fulfill its duties.
4 Currently, Ms. Cossman also serves as the
5 co-chair for one of the committees of the council that
6 Major General Weller just talked about. And this is the
7 Council's Aging Committee.
8 Ms. Cossman works in partnership with Ed
9 Beck, who is the chief of operations for the DMVA's state
10 veterans homes specifically, specifically to address the
11 needs of our aging veterans.
12 That opportunity to work collaboratively
13 has been embraced not just by the Department of Military
14 and Veterans Services, but also the Department of Aging.
15 And that embracement is evident by the
16 efforts and the initiatives that have been launched to
17 better connect Pennsylvania's network of local Area
18 Agencies on Aging, those 52 local Area Agencies on Aging
19 that cover the 67 counties of our Commonwealth with the
20 Pennsylvania's county directors of Veterans Affairs, all
21 to ensure that Pennsylvania's qualified aging veterans
22 and their families can access needed benefits and
23 services and supports when they need them.
24 To provide you just with the sense of these
25 efforts, I'm pleased to share a few of the following Page: 53 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 examples.
2 Earlier this year, we launched a survey.
3 The survey was conducted of all of our Area Agency on
4 Aging directors seeking very specific feedback on their
5 current relationship with their local county directors of
6 Veterans Affairs.
7 While the survey was intended to identify
8 gaps and to encourage communication and coordination at
9 the local level, through this survey, best practices were
10 also identified.
11 Those best practices have been captured and
12 we will be sharing them shortly with the network in order
13 to -- via webinars, so that the counties and the regions
14 can learn from one another and to, again, better connect
15 aging veterans and their families to available services
16 and benefits that they may be eligible to receive.
17 This survey also included a question. The
18 question asked our local aging network, our local AAAs,
19 if they were interested in helping the Commonwealth
20 pursue expanding assess to the Veterans-Directed Home &
21 Community Based Services program.
22 Members of the Aging Committee might be
23 most familiar, but members of the other committee might
24 be as well with Pennsylvania's current aging waiver
25 program. Page: 54 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 That program is intended to ensure that
2 individuals can age in place. If they're eligible for
3 medical assistance and eligible for nursing facility
4 level of care, they can receive services and supports in
5 their home as opposed to living in an institution.
6 The Veterans-Directed Home & Community
7 Based Service program is a federal program designed to
8 allow veterans who are indeed potential candidates for
9 nursing home placement to receive that care in their
10 homes, their caregivers' homes or, as Representative
11 DeLissio pointed out earlier, in a non-supportive,
12 independent living community.
13 The Veterans-Directed program, this federal
14 program, provides the veteran with a budget and allows
15 them to choose their own care providers in place of
16 receiving care services in the Veterans Administrative
17 healthcare system.
18 In some cases, family members of the
19 veteran can be paid for the care which they provide.
20 This Veterans-Directed Home & Community
21 Based Service program is presently only available in the
22 Philadelphia, Coatesville and Erie areas.
23 The survey results yielded that multiple
24 AAAs which are in within a Veterans Integrated Service
25 Network, VISN, also known as a VISN, which indeed these Page: 55 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Area Agencies on Aging many of them were interested in
2 exploring this expansion.
3 At present, thankfully, leadership from the
4 Department of Military and Veterans Affairs is in
5 communication with VISN 4, which is again the Veterans
6 Integrated Service Network that Pennsylvania participates
7 in to determine if VISN 4 will work with Pennsylvania to
8 pursue expanding this federally-funded service expansion
9 here for Pennsylvania's aging veterans.
10 Another initiative involved the
11 Pennsylvania Department of Aging's Aging and Disability
12 Resource center, also known as the PA Link.
13 It was last year our first opportunity and
14 we're expanding it into year that we delivered jointly
15 with Department of Military and Veterans Affairs, a
16 Veterans Day message.
17 The message was created in that
18 collaborative opportunity in order to first and foremost
19 recognize veterans' military service, to highlight the
20 needs of aging veterans and to create pathways, pathways
21 to better educate and connect our aging veterans and
22 their caregivers to available services which, again, they
23 may be eligible for.
24 In addition, this PA Link partnership,
25 which is very much modeled upon what Major General Weller Page: 56 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 commented on as well as Representative DeLissio with the
2 211 system because through our PA Link leadership, we are
3 currently leading conversations with all types of public
4 and private partners in order to have them register on
5 our PA linked community care website.
6 And most recently, we're engaged in leading
7 conversations with the DMVA and its local county veterans
8 assistance offices to create connections with
9 Pennsylvania's two Alzheimer's Association chapters, The
10 Greater Pennsylvania Chapter of the Alzheimer's
11 Association and the Delaware Valley Chapter, which has a
12 footprint here in particular in Southeastern
13 Pennsylvania, in order to either develop or to strengthen
14 partnership so that Pennsylvania veterans with
15 Alzheimer's disease or other related dementias and their
16 caregivers can be much more quickly linked to the needed
17 support and respite and services that they need and
18 desire.
19 These PA Link partnerships are a critical
20 part of our opportunity to better leverage the resources
21 that are entrusted to our care and that we better utilize
22 them well and wisely.
23 Lastly, I'd like to comment on the work
24 that is under way to ensure, as the Representative's good
25 question earlier was phrased, that the statutory Page: 57 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 requirements of Act 69 of 2017 are actually met and that
2 the DMVA is supported and, therefore, successful in
3 ensuring that its responsibility to ask those seeking
4 services from all state agencies and their agents and in
5 our case, it's the local Area Agencies on Aging, ask them
6 if they ever served in United States Armed Forces and
7 then to help any veteran who desires to be included in
8 the veterans registry to register.
9 This exercise under Act 69 will help us to
10 locate every veteran in the Commonwealth in order to
11 provide outreach and information and actually link them,
12 link them with the available services and benefits that
13 they so desperately in many cases need.
14 With guidance from the Governor's Advisory
15 Council on Veterans Services and its Aging Committee, the
16 aging network is currently being educated on Act 69 so
17 that we can ensure that at the first point of contact
18 each caller is being ask if they are a veteran, and if
19 so, they're then educated on the Pennsylvania's Veteran
20 Registry and support is offered in order to -- again, I
21 can't stress enough -- ultimately link them to services
22 and benefits that they may be eligible to receive.
23 This opportunity to share some incite into
24 how the Department of Aging strives to support of aging
25 veterans in partnership with the DMVA in particular but Page: 58 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 also with all of our sister state agencies is incredibly
2 appreciated.
3 And while exciting things are happening, we
4 recognize that there's so some that needs to be done, so
5 much more so that our aging veterans and the baby boomers
6 who are coming right behind them are informed, engaged,
7 empowered, supported and when necessary and needed
8 protected from all types of abuse, neglect, exploitation
9 and abandonment.
10 These brave Pennsylvanian's who served our
11 country and our Commonwealth frankly deserve, as you all
12 so well know, they deserve nothing less than our best
13 efforts to support their desire to live independently and
14 to age well and healthy in their homes and communities.
15 I look forward to any suggestions that you
16 may have as well as to answering any questions that you
17 may have as well.
18 Thank you.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Thank you,
20 Madame Secretary.
21 Do you have time for some questions?
22 MS. OSBORNE: Absolutely.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: You do.
24 Okay. I don't have a question for you.
25 Let me just begin by thanking you for Page: 5 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 mentioning the system of the AAAs across the
2 Commonwealth.
3 That is really the entry-level call, I
4 think, for most of our seniors, whether veterans or not,
5 in terms of trying to access information about what
6 services and programs are available for our senior
7 population across Pennsylvania.
8 And also you gave a shout out a minute ago
9 to the Delaware Valley Alzheimer's Association, one of
10 two in Pennsylvania.
11 Members of the House Aging Committee
12 yesterday were down at University of Pennsylvania where
13 we heard from the executive director of the Alzheimer's
14 Association with an update on what their efforts are in
15 terms of doing things to help people who face the trauma,
16 so to speak, of a diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease or
17 some of the related disorders in that field.
18 So thanks for mentioning them. They do
19 fantastic work, as do our AAAs all across the
20 Commonwealth.
21 We have a question for you from Chairman
22 Samuelson.
23 MS. OSBORNE: Thank you.
24 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: So you said that
25 you did a survey of all the Area Agency on Aging Page: 60 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 directors and all the Veterans Affairs directors around
2 the state to talk about whether they're collaborating.
3 In my county, Northampton County, they're
4 co-located right in the same building, the human services
5 building.
6 I'm guess I'm curious what did you find?
7 Are they already working together in all the counties
8 that you surveyed?
9 MS. OSBORNE: You know, well, I would wish
10 that there was good relationships and good synergies as
11 you experience in Northampton County.
12 And that was by and large more than half
13 have those good relationships.
14 But there was a good pocket, a good number
15 of folks that said, you know what, there's been a lot of
16 turnover, both at the Area Agency on Aging director's
17 side as well as in the county director's side for the
18 local county veterans outreach office.
19 And sometimes that turnover then led to not
20 linking up with one another when there was a new director
21 to that came into place. So that was one opportunity
22 that we felt we needed to help capture.
23 So we're trying to create those synergies.
24 Others, quite frankly, said that either, you know, that
25 there's not a good relationship because of personality Page: 61 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 reasons or differences of philosophy or arguments over
2 funding.
3 So we're trying to break down those
4 barriers and ensure that we can have good positive
5 relationships across all 67 counties.
6 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: And just a
7 follow-up question. You said the veterans home and
8 community based services is only available in
9 Philadelphia, Coatesville and Eric.
10 MS. OSBORNE: Yes.
11 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: Why just those
12 three areas?
13 MS. OSBORNE: You know, it's a federal
14 program.
15 And, certainly, Major General Weller can
16 answer this probably much better than I can because I
17 needed to be educated on what exactly this program is in
18 relation to, for example, our own aging waiver program
19 here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as well as now
20 the implementation of Community HealthChoices.
21 But the Veterans-Directed Home & Community
22 Based Services program comes from the Veterans Health
23 Administration, in particular, their office of Geriatrics
24 and Extended Care.
25 And it must be a partnership with the local Page: 62 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Area Agency On Aging, either in a particular planning and
2 service area or in a particular region, as well as with
3 the VA Medical Center.
4 So it's the VA Medical Centers in
5 Philadelphia and in Erie, in particular, and Coatesville,
6 those three VA Medical Centers that for many years now
7 have had this veterans program available.
8 We are now in conversation with the
9 leadership of VISN 4. Actually, it's being led by DMVA.
10 Because we have other Pennsylvania counties
11 who line up with the other veterans homes in Pittsburgh,
12 Butler, as well as Lebanon and Wilkes-Barre in other to
13 say, you know, Area Agencies on Aging in those areas are
14 willing to work with them and collaborate with them to
15 expand this program in Pennsylvania.
16 But it does needs federal approval in order
17 to have Pennsylvania's desire to expand the program move
18 forward because it is federal funded.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Representative
20 DeLissio.
21 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Thank you,
22 Chairman.
23 Just a comment. The long-term care counsel
24 was reconstituted about two years ago, the Secretary
25 heads it. I have the privilege of being our caucus' Page: 63 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 appointee to it.
2 There is a representative from the
3 Department of Military and Veterans Affairs on it to help
4 with some of these linkages.
5 But I'm wondering our current focus is
6 direct care workers, of which there is a dearth, both on
7 facility-based and community-based programs.
8 And I'm struck by the subsets of older
9 adults in Pennsylvania, one of which is obviously
10 veterans, why we're here today, the other is the
11 intellectually-disabled community, which are aging in
12 place and we haven't a clue.
13 So maybe this is a format, this idea of
14 joint committee meetings or for the council to look at
15 these various subsets of our aging population, our older
16 citizens in the Commonwealth, to ensure that our broader
17 plan is addressing these subset needs which are unique to
18 that demographic.
19 Thank you.
20 MS. OSBORNE: I know that it wasn't really
21 a question. But if I could just -- but I agree with
22 everything you said for many and obvious reasons.
23 And, Representative DeLissio, you're a
24 voice at the table that is well appreciated at the long
25 term care council. Page: 64 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 I know Chairman Hennessey is also on that
2 council and Senator Brooks has a designee, Chloe, who
3 regularly represents her and Chairman -- who's name now
4 just escapes me. So don't tell him that I forgot his
5 name.
6 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Haywood.
7 MS. OSBORNE: Haywood. Thank you. Yeah.
8 Nobody's going to tell him that, right? We're going to
9 edit that out later.
10 But Chairman Haywood, Leanna represents him
11 at the committee.
12 But for our elected officials from the
13 House and the Senate who serve on a long-term care
14 council, it is deeply appreciated, the incite that you
15 bring. And I'm not just saying that, you know, to earn
16 points with anybody.
17 But it's an incredibly important point that
18 you just make up -- that you just brought up, rather,
19 with regard to our Pennsylvania Long-Term Care Council
20 being reconstituted certainly looking at direct care
21 workers because if we desire to be a Pennsylvania that
22 enables its citizens to age in place, regardless of age
23 or stage of life, each one of us has the same desire and
24 that's to live life in our home, in our community,
25 whether that home is the home we raised our kids in or Page: 65 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 the home that we downsized to or the home that we moved
2 into because we felt we needed, you know, a different
3 situation.
4 But to age in place in the setting of our
5 choice for as long as possible. And we can't do that
6 without a direct care workforce that's available, that's
7 accessible, that's respected, that has opportunity to
8 earn life-sustaining, family-sustaining wages.
9 So that is right now a critically-important
10 topic of the Long-Term Care Council.
11 We did make sure that we included in that
12 scope, in that space, veterans homes. And as General
13 Weller pointed out, you know, direct care workers in
14 veterans home are critically important.
15 Direct care workers for veterans who
16 receive aid and attendance, critically important. So we
17 need to ensure that we're always looking at the direct
18 care workforce.
19 But to your good point, there is a certain
20 subset here that we need to ensure across state agencies
21 that we're looking at homelessness, we're looking at
22 mental health.
23 We're looking and learning from those
24 counties that have treatment courts for veterans and even
25 using veterans as peers within that space. Page: 66 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 So I can obviously go on and on and on and
2 I won't. But it is critically important. And we need to
3 do better in these spaces in order to coordinate and
4 communicate and collaborate and better leverage our
5 resources.
6 So thank you for that.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Great.
8 Secretary Osborne, thank you for your testimony today.
9 You're welcome to stay around. We're going
10 to take some additional questions at the end of the
11 hearing if you have time.
12 MS. OSBORNE: Absolutely.
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: I think you
14 might have a busy schedule. I'm not sure, but -
15 MS. OSBORNE: No different -
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: -- you're
17 welcome to stay.
18 MS. OSBORNE: -- than anybody's else's, but
19 thank you.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. Well, you
21 can enjoy lunch with us then. Thank you.
22 Okay. We're going to call up our next
23 panel. Mr. Bruce Foster, Department Service Officer
24 Pennsylvania American Legion, Mr. John B. Getz, Jr.,
25 State Adjutant/Quartermaster, Pennsylvania State Page: 67 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Headquarters Veterans of Foreign Wars.
2 It's a pleasure, gentleman, to have your
3 here with us today. Thanks for taking time out of your
4 busy schedule and you can begin your testimony when
5 you're ready.
6 MR. GETZ: Thank you.
7 Good morning and thank you for providing me
8 with an opportunity to present some information to you
9 about the Pennsylvania Department of Veterans of Foreign
10 Wars serves and assists older veterans, their survivors
11 and, in part, through the use of Act 66 Funds.
12 Pennsylvania VFW service officers outreach
13 to a variety of office locations and events across
14 Pennsylvania, reaching veterans in the majority of the
15 state's 67 counties.
16 Since Pennsylvania's Act 66 grant program
17 was started, our state VFW has utilized grant funds to
18 connect Pennsylvania veterans with well over $200 million
19 in federal benefits.
20 That's an impressive dollar amount. And in
21 return of our investments for these state grant funds is
22 incredible success story.
23 These federal dollars have has resulted in
24 a tremendous economic impact for Pennsylvania. Many
25 older veterans are living better today because of Act 66. Page: 68 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 We serve older veterans in offices of the
2 legislators, in fixed locations, in many outreach areas
3 in rural Pennsylvania at events like the Pennsylvania
4 Farm Show, county fairs, military and veterans programs,
5 local patriotic events and elsewhere.
6 When we hear about the older veteran who
7 cannot travel, VFW service officers contact the aging
8 veteran and offer to make a home visit with them. This
9 means the world to them.
10 We also visit aging surviving spouses of
11 veterans for whom living in a house creates a hardship.
12 Our VFW service officer participates in
13 many public events that honor older veterans.
14 In fact, our hard work to help aging
15 veterans receive the benefits and the services that they
16 have earned has resulted in a special public presentation
17 being held to honor those veterans now in their twilight
18 years.
19 Through the Veterans of Foreign Wars,
20 service officers work at the VA Medical Centers and
21 outreach facilities; we connect with the aging population
22 and to initiate thousands of veteran claims and other
23 support measures for them.
24 Our VFW service officers outreach to
25 locations in and close to larger cities, has supported Page: 6 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 many aging minority veterans.
2 One strong example of this is in our
3 Harrisburg office where a strong percentage of those
4 older veterans coming in for assistance are minorities.
5 VFW service officers interact with homeless
6 veterans. If there is an aging veteran caught up in
7 homelessness, we are there to help him or her improve
8 their standard of life.
9 In many wooded areas, rural sections of
10 Pennsylvania, you will find VFW service officers combing
11 through the small towns, farming areas and town
12 gatherings to locate aging veterans.
13 We ask them if they need assistance or if
14 they know of the existing programs like death benefits,
15 aid and attendance and other benefits frequently used by
16 our older citizens.
17 We visit veterans post buildings in many
18 small towns because there are still many World War II
19 veterans and Korean veterans who enjoy hanging out there
20 with each other at the veterans clubs.
21 We also visit nursing homes to educate
22 residents about veterans benefits. You will also often
23 find us at senior expos and at information fairs
24 sponsored by the state lawmakers to promote our benefit
25 assistance programs to senior citizens. Page: 7 0 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 VFW service officers frequently meet and
2 follow up with older veterans who become -- before our
3 assistance never knew that they were eligible for any
4 assistance.
5 Yes, there are still many veterans across
6 Pennsylvania who do not know about the VA and about state
7 veterans programs and services.
8 One case study, a World War II veteran came
9 to speak with one of our outreach service officers. He
10 was so hard of hearing that he could not communicate well
11 with the service officer.
12 His son reported that his aging father had
13 become a hermit, virtually staying at home because he
14 could not communicate with others.
15 Our service officer represented the veteran
16 before a VA board of appeals, which resulted in the older
17 veteran receiving 100 percent disability compensation.
18 While many World War II Veterans, Korean
19 Veterans have passed away there are still thousands of
20 these and other veterans still living in the
21 Commonwealth.
22 Also we must consider the generation of
23 veterans following World War II and Korea. The Vietnam
24 War veterans are mostly at least 65 years old or older
25 and many who have -- and many beyond the 7 0 year old. Page: 71 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Due to caustic environment conditions at
2 many of these Vietnam veterans served in, one of which
3 was created by Agent Orange use, many of them are aging
4 faster than the general public.
5 Some are passing away well short of the
6 ages reached by World War II veterans and Korean
7 veterans; therefore, it would not be a sense to consider
8 many Vietnam living war veterans as personal living in -
9 as personally living in their final decade.
10 The Pennsylvania Veterans of Foreign Wars
11 will continue to outreach to aging veterans, including
12 those who are aging far faster than our predecessor.
13 Also they know about and can apply for state benefits,
14 services and benefits.
15 We will continue our successful outreach
16 message and stay flexible to expand how we meet and
17 assist these value citizens.
18 To everyone here today, thank you for the
19 opportunity and for your service to our state and thank
20 you for the Act 66 program support and its continued
21 increasing level of funding.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you.
23 MR. GETZ: Thank you.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Bruce. Then
25 we'll go to questions. Page: 72 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MR. FOSTER: Okay. Good morning. My name
2 is Bruce Foster. I manage the American Legion's Veteran
3 Outreach Program for Pennsylvania veterans.
4 And on behalf of our State Commander, James
5 Volrath, I'd like to thank you for allowing me the
6 opportunity to discuss Pennsylvania veterans this
7 morning. I'll keep my comments pretty brief.
8 My colleague here from the Veterans of
9 Foreign Wars may have forgot to mention that other
10 organizations such as the American Legion, the Disabled
11 American Veterans, the American Veterans, the Vietnam
12 Veterans of America and the Military Order of Purple
13 Heart all do veteran outreach across this great state to
14 the best of their abilities and their budgets.
15 You know, I find it fascinating the way the
16 VA calculates our veteran population. But what it tells
17 us in their latest report is that just over a month from
18 now, on September 30, 2018, our veteran population in
19 Pennsylvania will drop under 800,000 for the first time
20 in over a century.
21 To some, this might seem like a good thing.
22 As we have less veterans to care for, it should cost
23 less, right?
24 However, when I add that over 55 percent of
25 those 800,000 Pennsylvania veterans are age 65 or older, Page: 73 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 it might open some eyes that we have some urgency in
2 expanding outreach programs that change lives every
3 single day.
4 If you knew that we had 122,327 veterans
5 who are between the ages of 70 and 74, would that
6 convince you that it's time that we take action now?
7 Or that we have another 74,122 that are
8 between the ages of 75 and 79, would that be the decider
9 in your mind?
10 Or would it take the 146,000 Pennsylvania
11 veterans who are over the age of 80 to see how urgent our
12 problem really is?
13 Folks, our veterans need long-term
14 healthcare solutions, home healthcare and assisted
15 living. The partnership between the state and the VSO
16 grant program is a proven success story.
17 Data provided by the VA, not coming from
18 us, but proves that. Act 66 does pay for itself many
19 times over in not only revenue, which we talk about a
20 lot, but the savings it generates with medical savings
21 through Medicare and Medicaid.
22 It took us four budget years to increase
23 Act 66 funding and that was after we maintained a
24 statement for eight years.
25 I want you to consider a simple situation, Page: 74 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 one that we will all be faced with one day: Veterans who
2 are now veterans. And, that is, that as we age, our need
3 to preserve the resources that we put away while we were
4 working increase greatly.
5 Veterans and their families face this same
6 situation every day, that families struggle with finding
7 resources to care for their parents, their grandparents
8 and great grandparent.
9 Veterans are very proud individuals. You
10 often hear them say that they are not looking for a
11 handout or it should go to somebody who deserves it more
12 or we don't take charity.
13 But I can tell you from experience when a
14 few dollars more means the difference between putting a
15 loved one in a private assisted-living facility instead
16 of a Medicaid home, nursing home, just by using the
17 benefits they earned by serving their country, now that's
18 a wonderful day.
19 VA pension benefits can help veterans and
20 their spouses live higher, live in higher, more
21 independent levels of care for a much longer period of
22 time.
23 You should understand that the VA is the
24 second largest bureaucratic federal agency. It runs by
25 rules, regulations and laws. Page: 75 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Title 38 of the United States Code outlines
2 the benefits and becomes our lesson book as service
3 officers.
4 Internally, the VA uses their M-21, an M-21
5 procedure manual to keep its decisions consistent. I
6 tell you this story because it's these same rules,
7 regulations and laws that make many veterans and their
8 families eligible for benefits.
9 Now, the VA does not go out of its way to
10 advertise that they have money and benefits to give away.
11 Using a trained, accredited representative will ensure
12 success and receipt of the maximum benefits available.
13 The VSO grant program has literally helped
14 thousand of Pennsylvania veterans receive benefits when
15 they need them the most.
16 Every time we enroll a veteran in the VA
17 healthcare system, your state budgets go cha-ching,
18 that's another veterans that we don't have to save
19 Medicaid dollars for.
20 Everyone who we attain service connection
21 for is just another one that you won't have to fund long
22 term healthcare for.
23 We support legislation that will increase
24 funding for Act 6 6 in the most expedient way. We have
25 long supported the idea of using the lottery system as a Page: 7 6 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 bill payer for Act 66.
2 We need to know more about the VGT bill
3 before we're ready to commit to it. But the Pennsylvania
4 War Veterans Council will study that idea and hopefully
5 support it when they get back together here in September.
6 In closing, I just want you to consider one
7 more situation: Imagine how many Vietnam veterans there
8 are in Pennsylvania or the widows, I'm sorry, widows of
9 Vietnam veterans there are in Pennsylvania whose husbands
10 passed away years ago from what is now considered a
11 presumptive condition related to Agent Orange exposure,
12 conditions such as respiratory cancers, leukemia,
13 ischemic heart disease, Parkinson's and widows don't even
14 know that they are eligible for both compensation and
15 healthcare from the VA and they're totally unaware of it.
16 I want to thank you for this opportunity to
17 speak this morning and talk about a little bit about our
18 programs. And that's my presentation. Thank you, sir.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you.
20 We're going to get some questions for you now.
21 MR. FOSTER: Okay. Cool.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Thank you,
23 Steve.
24 John, Bruce, thank you very much for your
25 testimony to the committee here today. Page: 7 7 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 John, you mentioned the Veterans of Foreign
2 Wars' veterans service officer and, Bruce, you added the
3 American Legion, AMVETS, the Military Order of the Purple
4 Heart, Vietnam Veterans, if each of those associations
5 has a VSO, service officer, and each of the counties, I
6 believe has a service officer, how do they coordinate?
7 Can you explain the relationship between
8 the county level VSOs, which I'm familiar with, you know,
9 when I have veterans come into my office, the first call
10 I make is to Lawrence Davidson saying, you know, what can
11 you do to help this fellow?
12 MR. FOSTER: Sure.
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: And by the
14 way, Lawrence, I'll shout out for him, you know, I say,
15 Look, I've got a guy who's 85 years old here. I'm not
16 sending him down to West Chester to go try to figure out
17 the government services building down there.
18 It's like sending him to the Pentagon. You
19 know, you come up to my office. And he's very willing to
20 do that and meet at my office with these veterans, and
21 he's helped them significantly. One guy went from like a
22 $300 a month pension to $1,300 a month just by meeting
23 with Lawrence one time.
24 MR. FOSTER: Happens every day, sir.
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Yeah. And so Page: 7 8 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 thank you for the work that your groups do.
2 But tell us, if you will, just how they
3 interplay with each other so that we can understand it
4 better.
5 MR. FOSTER: Okay. First of all, each
6 county in Pennsylvania, all 67, are mandated by the
7 county code to have a county director of Veterans
8 Affairs.
9 And, you know, that person's
10 responsibilities are many. But taking care of benefits
11 is one of those responsibilities.
12 But I can tell you that -- if I can tell
13 you a quick story. I was driving one day through
14 Chambersburg and it seemed like I was never going to get
15 out of town. I just kept going and going and going and
16 going.
17 I had just come from the county director's
18 office. And I said to myself, How can a county director
19 take care of the veterans in his capital city? I mean,
20 he's got so many to take care of there. How does he do
21 the veterans outside of his capital city?
22 And but we work with many of the county
23 directors of Veterans Affairs, the York County director
24 of Veterans Affairs, we work exclusively with. Jefferson
25 County, Clearfield County. We work hand in hand with Page: 7 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 those agencies.
2 We are willing to work with anybody to help
3 veterans. And some county directors see us as a threat
4 to their job, I think.
5 But it's, you know, all we all want to do
6 is help veterans. That's all, so...
7 You know, I don't know if you want to add
8 something, John. I don't want to...
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Can I just
10 ask a question before we leave there.
11 MR. FOSTER: Okay.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: The county
13 veterans offices exist, you know, I think they also have,
14 well, it's called a VSO, a veterans service officer.
15 And as I understand it, these people are
16 highly trained and skilled in knowing exactly the
17 programs the federal government and the state government
18 offer to our veterans.
19 So the county directors are one group of
20 people. But the VSO officers are the ones I think you
21 have hone in on because they're the ones that are
22 certified officers, receive the training, know where to
23 point people in the best direction.
24 MR. FOSTER: The State of Pennsylvania
25 manages its own power of attorney and they provide Page: 80 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 training and accreditation to the county directors. And
2 I'll let General Weller and his team talk about that.
3 But, you know, they accredit the county
4 directors of Veterans Affairs. We do the same thing
5 through our veteran service organizations.
6 We all have an accreditation program. We
7 all have a continuing education program. You know, we're
8 continually taking web-based training to improve our
9 skills or a weakness in an area maybe.
10 But I would say that we're subject matter
11 experts on federal benefits and we're just in addition to
12 the county directors of Veterans Affairs.
13 If you look at it in a total, that is our
14 veterans support system in Pennsylvania, our county
15 directors of Veterans Affairs and our VSO partners
16 through the Department of Military and Veterans Affairs.
17 And, of course, they're doing outreach all
18 the time with their outreach vans to try to get the word
19 out. There are -
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Well, Bruce,
21 thank you. I think John wants to -
22 MR. FOSTER: Okay.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: -- jump in.
24 MR. GETZ: I have a couple things. Well,
25 basically on the VFW side of it, we, in fact, every Page: 81 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 August, we have 4 0 hours' worth of training that we send
2 all of our new service officers. When I say new service
3 officers, that's within five years of service.
4 After five years, we have an advanced
5 training, which we give them another 40 hours' worth of
6 training, which is held in the November time frame.
7 And then it's getting that busy that we
8 also have a training now also in the January time frame.
9 So we try and give them at least 4 0 hours of training.
10 Now, also under the state benefits, I have
11 had the Department of Military and Veterans Affairs come
12 to all of our officers and train everybody on state
13 benefits so they're fluent with them also.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Okay. Well,
15 thank you for your testimony, both of you. I just wanted
16 to make sure we weren't duplicating services as opposed
17 to coordinating services. And it sounds like the
18 coordination's happening.
19 MR. FOSTER: Sir, I can say that we don't
20 have enough service officers in Pennsylvania with our
21 county directors, with the VSO program. We should triple
22 it. That's all I can say.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: You're saying
24 the needs there?
25 MR. GETZ: Yeah. The needs are. Page: 82 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Duplication's not there. The thing is when
2 you talk competition, yes, there is competition out there
3 with the county directors and even in other service
4 organizations sometimes.
5 We try and work well with each other. But
6 we actually have some county directors who won't let us
7 in because we're going in their territory and then they
8 fight. So we do have that.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. Well,
10 thank you very much for your testimony, both of you.
11 MR. FOSTER: You bet.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Chairman
13 Sainato.
14 MINORITY CHAIRMAN SAINATO: Thank you,
15 Chairman Hennessey.
16 I just want to thank you. I have the
17 officer come into my office once a month. They're doing
18 a great job.
19 MR. FOSTER: Appreciate that.
20 MINORITY CHAIRMAN SAINATO: It's a good
21 need in the community and we get a lot of positive
22 feedback.
23 They do provide very valuable information.
24 So I just wanted to pass that on. Those services are
25 great for our veterans and our community. And that's Page: 83 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 something I think is a very valuable program.
2 So thank you for your efforts.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Go ahead.
4 MR. FOSTER: I was just going to say we've
5 been in your office for a long time. And that's handled
6 by my Erie office.
7 And but, you know, we asked each one of our
8 partners, our legislative partners this year, to sign a
9 memorandum of understanding, you know, what we're going
10 to provide, what we expect them to provide.
11 But, you know, basically they provide the
12 space for us, they provide the advertisement, let your
13 constituents know that we're coming.
14 All of our veteran service officers have
15 access to the VA records and they're limited by power of
16 attorney, but we can set up in any place.
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Chairman
18 Samuelson.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: Thank you.
20 You talked about the services available all
21 over in Pennsylvania.
22 MR. FOSTER: Right.
23 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: How many veteran
24 service officers do you have in the VFW and how many do
25 you have in the American Legion? Page: 84 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MR. GETZ: Okay. I have 2 9 in the VFW.
2 American Legion?
3 MR. FOSTER: I have 19.
4 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: And they're
5 located all different parts of Pennsylvania?
6 MR. FOSTER: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
7 MR. GETZ: Same here. I have officers in
8 Erie, Butler, Altoona, Lock Haven, Harrisburg,
9 Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Wilkes-Barre.
10 And then we have outreach that runs out
11 through those areas. And also we're in legislator's
12 offices and also clinics and everything else throughout
13 the state.
14 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: And has that
15 number been stable the couple years or have you been
16 adding veteran service officers?
17 MR. GETZ: Well, what I did, I added -
18 after Act 66 took place, the purpose of the program is
19 outreach.
20 So with that purpose, I tried to hire as
21 many service officers in the State of Pennsylvania so we
22 could get into the rural areas and make sure the veterans
23 were taken care of.
24 MR. FOSTER: Between us, you know, we're
25 the largest two organizations that get a piece of pie of Page: 85 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 the Act 6 6 budget.
2 But between us, we have kind of a different
3 philosophy of who we hire. And, you know, we pay all of
4 our employees benefits, healthcare, retirement, all that,
5 where some of the other organizations don't.
6 And so it keeps us at a limited number of
7 people that we can add. So, you know, John's philosophy
8 is to hire people that he doesn't have to provide
9 benefits to so he can stretch his dollars farther than I
10 can.
11 MR. GETZ: Well, one thing my philosophy is
12 to hire veterans that are retired or on disability. I
13 try to do that.
14 But the problem, sometimes the problem with
15 that is if they don't posttraumatic stress and stuff like
16 that, they sit there and listen to the stories of the
17 veterans coming in, it does create more posttraumatic
18 stress for them.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay.
20 Representative Dush.
21 REPRESENTATIVE DUSH: Thank you, Chairman.
22 Bruce, you brought up Jefferson County, and
23 I'm blessed. Herb Bullers the county commissioner who's
24 actually in charge of that, works very well with Krupa
25 Steele, our VSO. Page: 86 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 And your people come down. I've got the
2 one from your office comes to my Brookville office and
3 then south of 80, we've got the guy from Pittsburgh comes
4 up to my Punxy office.
5 MR. FOSTER: Right.
6 REPRESENTATIVE DUSH: My question is:
7 You've mentioned about some of the conflicts that happen,
8 and Herb has questions from time to time on where the
9 lanes are crossed and where, you know, who's got what.
10 Is there any way of possibly getting a
11 written outline of where those lanes are because we -
12 our people want to work together and we don't have the
13 competition and the head butting, fortunately, but we
14 would like to see a little bit so that we aren't bouncing
15 back and forth between offices.
16 MR. FOSTER: From our perspective -- and
17 I'm sure John'll agree with this -- that from our
18 perspective, we just want to help veterans, okay,
19 wherever they are.
20 And, you know, sometimes the county
21 directors, like I say -- and I understand it because I
22 used to work for the Department of Miliary and Veterans
23 Affairs. I used to manage the county directors at some
24 point.
25 And I understand, you know, that they may Page: 87 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 see competition or whatever. We don't have competition.
2 You know what I'm saying. A veteran is a veteran. We
3 want to help that veteran no matter where that veteran
4 is.
5 And so, you know, I think I'd have to talk
6 to Rick and if we were going to come up with some kind of
7 a written thing.
8 But, you know, the county directors of
9 Veterans Affairs belong to the Pennsylvania War Veterans
10 Council, they belong to the State Veterans Commission.
11 In fact, the chairman, current chairman of
12 the State Veterans Commission is a county director of
13 Veterans Affairs. You know, they hold all the cards, you
14 know, so.
15 But we're willing to work with anybody.
16 And, like I say, the county directors that we have a
17 direct correlation relationship with are happy, you know,
18 so...
19 Jefferson is a long-time American Legion
20 county. They have been working with us for many years,
21 so...
22 REPRESENTATIVE DUSH: Thank you.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay.
24 Representative DeLissio.
25 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Well, I've Page: 88 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 learned so much this morning.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Good.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Amazing.
4 Gentlemen, two questions. Is there ever an
5 intersection with Apprise? So Apprise comes out of the
6 Department of Aging, provides highly-trained volunteers
7 to help older citizens understand particularly insurance
8 benefits?
9 And I'm wondering if the Apprise folks are
10 at all familiar with at least making referrals or
11 particularly asking those spouses?
12 You've indicated that there's lots of
13 citizens out there who may not even know they're benefit
14 eligible and that question may be better directed to the
15 Secretary eventually. But if you say, What's Apprise,
16 then I'll know.
17 And that may be an intersection to help
18 your world move forward because Apprise is, I think, in
19 every county.
20 I mean, we have an Apprise person in our
21 office monthly who has a brisk kind of business, if you
22 will.
23 MR. FOSTER: I can't say that I'm familiar
24 with that.
25 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Okay. Page: 8 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MR. FOSTER: But I, too, have learned many
2 things today.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Well, then this
4 might be one really good concrete definitive outcome that
5 could happen immediately from Secretary Osborne because
6 Apprise is -- I can see some synergy here without anybody
7 stepping or stepping out of the lane.
8 MR. FOSTER: Yeah.
9 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: And then your
10 comment, Mr. Foster, that had to do with lottery funds.
11 Is that a pitch for lottery funds or do you already
12 receive lottery support?
13 MR. FOSTER: Representative Barrar
14 sponsored a bill to use lottery funds for to fund, as a
15 bill payer for Act 66.
16 You know, we have, as a Pennsylvania War
17 Veterans Council, which is made up of all the veterans
18 service organizations, have supported that concept for a
19 long time.
20 And, you know, we have moved -- it's kind
21 of like the military, we have kind of moved forward and
22 stepped back and moved forward and stepped back.
23 But, you know, my point of my whole
24 presentation is that we need to, if we're going to help
25 the veterans in Pennsylvania, we need to help them now. Page: 90 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 We can't wait.
2 We've got to find the funding to take care
3 of these veterans. And, in turn, I'm telling you, if we
4 studied the impact that veteran benefits have in saving
5 state funds, you would see that it would pay for itself
6 immediately.
7 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Thank you.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Representative
9 DeLissio, my legislation, what it does, it would create a
10 special veterans lottery ticket that would be available
11 on certain national holidays that would help to fund Act
12 66 and also the adult day care program where that money
13 then would be targeted, there would only -- I think our
14 legislation creates five days a year.
15 Would it be five days? Is that what it
16 creates?
17 MR. O'LEARY: Roughly, yes.
18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: I know we've
19 changed it in the past.
20 MR. O'LEARY: Yeah, it's still.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: And then the
22 other thing I have is a VGT bill that would allow for
23 private clubs, the VFW clubs, then, to put VGTs in.
24 And then that money would then be
25 available. It would go to fire department, into their Page: 91 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 private clubs and also the VFW private clubs.
2 That, again, that revenue would be used for
3 additional upkeep for their facilities, it would go to
4 Act 66 and also for other programs, other veterans
5 programs. Depending on, of course, how much money it
6 could make.
7 The expansion of Act 66 is very important
8 to these gentleman.
9 Okay.
10 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Thank you.
11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Representative
12 White.
13 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: Earlier, we were
14 discussing, you know, the overlap of the areas that you
15 are in and the county persons that are taking care of the
16 veterans.
17 And the gentleman who works in my office,
18 he had mentioned at one point or another, I believe, that
19 there's sort of, like, this competition and the reason
20 for it is because it's based on volume, like the number
21 of veterans that are served.
22 Is there any truth that or -
23 MR. FOSTER: No.
24 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: -- like why is there
25 a competition in other words? Why is there that, you Page: 92 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 know?
2 MR. FOSTER: Yeah. There is no such thing
3 as competition.
4 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: I agree.
5 MR. FOSTER: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I
6 mean, if John and I compete for a piece of the Act 66
7 budget -- I mean, the funding, okay, if you looked at it
8 in a pie situation, you know, he wants a portion of pie,
9 we want a portion of the pie just to do what we do.
10 But there's no competition between us. You
11 know, we're not trying to outdo each other or anything
12 like that.
13 I'll let John comment.
14 MR. GETZ: Yeah. We just try and make sure
15 everybody's served in the State of Pennsylvania. That's
16 what we're here for.
17 We're here to make sure that -- there is
18 competition out there, okay, again, territorial stuff
19 like that, like I said before, in some of the counties.
20 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: Right. That's what
21 I was getting at. Why is there that, you know,
22 relationship there? What's taking place that maybe you
23 can help to rectify?
24 MR. GETZ: I think the -- okay. I don't
25 know, but I think some of the counties that I've been Page: 93 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 watching that have that direct competition with our
2 service officers, I think they're in fear of their job.
3 I think they're in fear of what they're
4 doing, that we're taking over their area, which -
5 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: That you're doing it
6 better?
7 MR. GETZ: You have to understand, we have
8 very good people out there and they're excellent at what
9 they do. And they do pull the veterans in so and I think
10 that's some of the stuff.
11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Is it because
12 right now the pot of money for Act 66 is 2.8 million? Do
13 the county directors get part of that 2. -- no?
14 MR. GETZ: No.
15 MR. FOSTER: No.
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: So they get
17 nothing out the 2.8 -
18 MR. FOSTER: No.
19 MR. GETZ: No.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: -- million that
21 is allotted by the state budget?
22 MR. FOSTER: That $2.8 million is our
23 agreement between us.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. I thought
25 maybe that's why there was some maybe hostility or Page: 94 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 pushback -
2 MR. FOSTER: No.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: -- from the
4 county offices.
5 MR. FOSTER: I can explain it probably this
6 way. Okay. And that is that every county has a county
7 budget.
8 And you have commissioners that manage the
9 county budget. And many times a commissioner will say,
10 Oh, you know, maybe I don't need a full-time county
11 director. I'm required by the county code to have one,
12 but maybe I don't need a full-time director.
13 Maybe I can just hire a part-time director
14 because the VFW's coming to my town on this day and the
15 American Legion is coming on this day.
16 And, you know, we have no control over
17 that. But I think that's where the animosity starts that
18 people, county directors might see the more outreach we
19 do in their county, the more the commissioner's might
20 say, Maybe we'll save some dollars here and...
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Just to
22 comment further on the tickets, so you understand.
23 The lottery started 45, 46 years ago in
24 Pennsylvania on the promise that its funds would be
25 dedicated to the needs of senior citizens, not all Page: 95 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 veterans.
2 MR. FOSTER: Right.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: But to senior
4 citizens. New Jersey dedicates its to education uses.
5 Pennsylvania, though, created the lottery with the
6 promise to serve senior citizens.
7 What we've working out of the details in
8 terms of how to take a veterans lottery ticket that
9 Steve's promoting and make sure that the programs that
10 are funded by that kind of, you know, the purchase of
11 those tickets are dedicated to veterans who are 60 and
12 over to meet the definition and to live within the
13 parameters of our statute that created the lottery in
14 Pennsylvania in the first place.
15 So that's the tug of war that's been going
16 on. It's not anything, you know, and no animosity to be
17 directed to veterans, just to make sure that we live
18 within the parameters of existing law.
19 MR. FOSTER: No. We understand that.
20 And, you know, if, let's say, that the
21 lottery system -- let's say, we did use the lottery
22 system for Act 66 funding, it would be up to us to write
23 a program of how to use those additional dollars to
24 strictly support those 55 percent of our 800,000 veterans
25 that are over the age of 65 or age of 60. Page: 96 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: 6 0 in
2 Pennsylvania.
3 MR. FOSTER: Yeah. 6 0 in Pennsylvania, so.
4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: So we're on
5 the same track?
6 MR. FOSTER: Oh, yeah, yeah.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: And we are
8 making progress.
9 MR. FOSTER: Yeah. And if there's anything
10 that we can contribute to that as far as the planning, we
11 would be more than happy to do that.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Okay. Thank
13 you.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: There's
15 certainly no shortage of veterans over the age of 60 that
16 we can help.
17 MR. FOSTER: That's exactly right.
18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Next question,
19 Representative Fritz.
20 REPRESENTATIVE FRITZ: Thank you,
21 Mr. Chairman.
22 There have been a very clear theme today,
23 and that is one of partnerships. And we see it with the
24 VA, we see it with our state as well at the county level
25 through our AAAs and our veteran directors and as well Page: 97 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 the American Legion and the VFW. So I want to speak to
2 that a little bit.
3 And here's the theme: I do host a service
4 officer in both my legislative offices. And oftentimes I
5 will interact with that veteran on his way out. And this
6 will be his response, I never knew.
7 And we speak to that, one of our testifiers
8 presented that half of our veterans are unaware of some
9 of the benefits that they are entitled to.
10 So in looking at the partnerships, I'm
11 wondering if there's -- and this is an idea, that's
12 there's an additional partner this perhaps we're
13 overlooking here, and that would the AARP.
14 They are a non-profit organization and they
15 very much have a theme of eradicating poverty. So I
16 think that perhaps they could provide a forum, and they
17 have the outreach ability to, perhaps, disseminate some
18 of this information.
19 And, again, that follows on some of our
20 partnership themes and especially the public/private. So
21 just wanted to bring that idea forward.
22 Thank you.
23 MR. FOSTER: Can I comment on that?
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Yes. Go ahead.
25 MR. FOSTER: Just one comment. And that is Page: 98 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 that the AARP, at least their representation at the
2 capitol had led us to believe that they would support the
3 lottery bill.
4 So, you know, I think that's important
5 because of their outreach, so...
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Thank you for
7 the suggestion, Jon. That's really a very good
8 suggestion for us all to think about.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: The last
10 questioner is Representative Ryan.
11 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: I'd like to add some
12 clarity to the testimony you already heard today. This
13 is a burning issue.
14 These gentlemen represent an organization.
15 And, by full disclosure, I am a member, a life member of
16 the one.
17 And the VSOs perform an invaluable service.
18 But I think we need to know why that is, and the
19 questions where you try to get at that today.
20 If everyone is in charge, no one is in
21 charge in reality. And the VSOs provide that link across
22 the board.
23 We have operational seams that are
24 absolutely horrific for what a veteran has to do to jump
25 through. Page: 9 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Chairman, you had a booklet that you had
2 presented. And Sean and Rick will tell you that I saw it
3 and I said this is probably the best one I'd ever seen.
4 I was a branch out at the Manpower &
5 Reserve Affairs at headquarters Marine Corp. for three
6 years prior to deploying to Afghanistan and Iraq.
7 And I can assure you that that booklet will
8 do more to help with the operational seams than you can
9 imagine.
10 If these gentlemens' VSOs were not doing
11 what they were doing, you would be seeing complaints of
12 unparalleled proportion in your district offices.
13 We're getting them now. I have a fully-
14 disabled Silver Star recipient in my district, Purple
15 Heart recipient, former county commissioner that was told
16 that his injuries were not service related and connected
17 after he'd been getting disability payments for 35 years.
18 VSOs stepped in and helped.
19 We have to realize that when you've got
20 county, state and local governments interacting with the
21 federal government and there might be 50 different
22 touchpoints, that no one's going to know all the details.
23 These organizations do. We need to do
24 everything we possibly can to knock down these
25 operational seams because until we do, veterans will not Page: 100 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 be served.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you.
3 And, Bruce, you know how I feel about this
4 program, Bruce, John.
5 We have it in our office. We have the
6 veteran service officer. He does a fantastic job. I get
7 so many compliments on this program.
8 And I'll tell you what, I think these are
9 some of the best dollars that we spend in state
10 government is this Act 66 program.
11 So everything we can do to help you, you
12 know, we're hoping that we get you additional funding so
13 we can continue to expand this.
14 MR. FOSTER: Thank you.
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you,
16 gentleman. And thank you for taking time out of your
17 schedule -
18 MR. GETZ: Sure.
19 MR. FOSTER: Thank you.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: -- to be with us
21 today.
22 Thank you. Our final panelist is Mr. Bob
23 Singagliese.
24 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Oh, wow.
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Did I say it Page: 101 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 right?
2 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Very good.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. Cool.
4 I'm looking at it and I'm went I had to figure it out.
5 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Great job.
6 MR. FOSTER: But can you spell it now.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Territory
8 manager for the Veterans Home Care, New York -- what is
9 it? New York, Jersey, LCC. Okay.
10 Pleasure to have you. I'm trying to figure
11 out what the last initials are.
12 MR. SINGAGLIESE: No, no problem. It's
13 Singagliese first off, but you did very well.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Singagliese.
15 Okay.
16 MR. SINGAGLIESE: You did very well. Thank
17 you.
18 Yes. I just wanted to say before I even
19 get started, you know, thank you very much for inviting
20 me here, for allowing me to present Veterans Home Care to
21 you, especially after the last two testimonies.
22 You actually stole some of my thunder
23 actually on some of them. Our mission with Veterans Home
24 Care, as we see, is to assist our veterans who have
25 protected our family and to stay in their homes and live Page: 102 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 with dignity.
2 In listening to the last two testimonies, I
3 really believe that Veterans Home Care could be one of
4 the solutions.
5 So to introduce myself, I am Bob
6 Singagliese. I am the territory manager for the east
7 region of Veterans Home Care, LLC.
8 I am not a veteran; however, I am in awe of
9 all you who have served for our country.
10 And I have been in many homes since joining
11 Veterans Home Care and listening to the veterans and
12 helping our veterans and surviving spouses, so...
13 I'm also not a lawyer and I am also not a
14 financial advisor, so... I am a territory manager, as I
15 said.
16 We are a private, for-profit company that
17 was started back in 2003 from our founder Bonnie
18 Laiderman. Bonnie's picture is in your packet there.
19 This is Bonnie in our packet.
20 And how Veterans Home Care got started was
21 Bonnie's mother, unfortunately, had breast cancer.
22 Bonnie's mother lived in St. Louis, Missouri -- I'm sorry
23 Bonnie's mother lived in Florida and Bonnie lived in
24 St. Louis, Missouri.
25 So when Bonnie found out that her mother Page: 103 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 had breast cancer, she became a caregiver for her mother.
2 And once a month she would travel from St. Louis to
3 Florida to help her ailing mother.
4 Well, this got to be, obviously,
5 overwhelming for her. And, through research, she found
6 out that through the VA, the Veterans Affairs, they had a
7 little-known pension known as aid and attendance. Now,
8 Bonnie's father was a Korean War veteran who had passed
9 away.
10 So when she learned about this pension, she
11 found out that her mother could be eligible for this
12 pension to get the money, as we were just talking about
13 with the testimonies, to help her stay in the home and
14 have that money pay for her healthcare benefits.
15 Well, unfortunately, Bonnie's mother did
16 pass away before the benefit was awarded to her; hence,
17 that's how Veterans Home Care came about.
18 Her whole mission was of starting Veterans
19 Home Care was to educate the public. I've heard many
20 times now from our veterans -- I have spoke in front of
21 over 200 veterans that don't know about this benefit.
22 They don't know about any of the benefits
23 that they are awarded -- or that they are entitled to.
24 So this is something that is strictly our
25 mission is to help the veteran, educate the public, Page: 104 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 educate the healthcare industry of the benefits that our
2 veterans are entitled to and their surviving spouse.
3 With the benefit of aid and attendance, we
4 are the -- this is the only benefit that we deal with
5 with the veteran.
6 If it's something else related to veteran
7 benefits, we then refer them to the county or the state
8 VSO. So we're only dealing with the aid and attendance
9 pension.
10 So what we do is this, okay, this is a
11 means-based benefit. They have to qualify for this
12 benefit. Our job is to make sure that they do qualify
13 for this benefit.
14 And it goes by what we call the three Ms.
15 And everybody has, in their packet, a little card here.
16 And part of the requirements for the aid
17 and attendance benefit is that the first one is military,
18 that our veteran must have at least one day of active
19 duty in a wartime period, they have to have 90 days of
20 total active duty and they have to have an honorable
21 discharge.
22 Our second qualification is medical.
23 So part of the requirements for the veteran
24 or the surviving spouse is that they need help, they need
25 help with the basic ADLs, activities of daily living, Page: 105 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 that they can't be driving, that they need help with
2 preparing of meals, that they need help in hygiene.
3 And this must be signed off by a medical
4 doctor; not a VA medical doctor, their medical doctor has
5 to sign off on this.
6 The last part is money. Money's always the
7 one that will probably disqualify most of our veterans or
8 surviving spouses is because if their income is too high
9 or they have too many assets, they're not going to
10 qualify for this benefit.
11 If that's the case, then we refer them to
12 their county VSO or we will refer them to some other
13 healthcare provider that can help them.
14 So now this is where Veterans Home Care
15 comes in. We offer what we call the Exclusive VETAssist
16 Program. We determine if the veteran or surviving spouse
17 qualifies for the aid and attendance pension.
18 We then guide them to send us the necessary
19 documents that they need for the VA application.
20 If you can see back on the card, it shows
21 you all the documents that we need. Once we get all the
22 documents for the application, we actually go to their
23 home. We sit down.
24 This is a part that I am in awe of because,
25 like, we go to their home, we sit down with them, we fill Page: 106 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 out the VA application with them, we make sure that
2 they're qualified, everything is verified. And then we
3 help them fill out the application.
4 We then take it back and then we upload it
5 to the VA. Here's where we come in. Once we send the
6 application to the VA, it could take anywhere from four
7 to eight months for the VA to approve the application.
8 While the application is pending, Veterans
9 Home Care will offer them a zero interest loan while the
10 application is pending so they can start their home care
11 or adult day care right away.
12 Now, we know we have a 98 percent accuracy
13 when we send in the application.
14 And, and this is something that I didn't
15 put into my remarks, if the VA denies the application of
16 the aid and attendance and they deny it based on a
17 medical reason, any money that we've laid out for the
18 home care, they do not have to pay us back. And that's
19 in black and white.
20 However, if they get denied because the VA
21 has found more money than what they have disclosed on the
22 application, then, of course, they would have to pay us
23 back.
24 And a quick story about that is that I
25 signed up -- one of my first cases that I signed up was a Page: 107 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 95-year-old World War II veteran.
2 He was living with his son and his
3 daughter-in-law. And we signed them up for the home
4 care. And we uploaded the application. And about two
5 weeks later, three weeks later, we get a call from the
6 daughter-in-law.
7 Now, I don't know if anybody here has heard
8 the term "strong box," but a strong box is more or less
9 where you would put important papers or money.
10 And this veteran, we found out, had savings
11 bonds that accumulated to a quarter of a million dollars.
12 So he did not qualify anymore for the benefit.
13 So but I just thought -- I mean, you know,
14 listen, it happens. Sometimes the veteran or surviving
15 spouse, they have money that they don't tell their
16 children about so and then it just comes out later on.
17 But I just thought that was pretty cute.
18 So once we send in the application, like I
19 said, we offer them a zero interest loan so they can get
20 started right away with the home care. They don't have
21 to wait for the VA's money.
22 And then once the VA does award them the
23 money, the money is retroactive from the time that we met
24 with them.
25 And that money will pay back my company's Page: 108 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 money, the money that we've laid out for the home care.
2 As I said before, we are a for-profit
3 company. How Veterans Home Care makes their money is
4 that we have providers all throughout the country. We
5 service 44 states.
6 So we have providers, home care providers,
7 adult day care providers that we have agreements with.
8 We ask them to take a discount on their
9 private pay rate. We put in our small markup. We make
10 the spread.
11 We make anywhere between 6 to $8 an hour on
12 every case that we sign up. And we make our money on
13 volume.
14 Now, there's no out of cost pocket to the
15 veteran or the surviving spouse. If you look at the card
16 that I had presented to you, you'll see the amounts of
17 the aid and attendance that they could qualify for.
18 We convert that into our hourly rates. If
19 they go over -- let's use a surviving spouse for example,
20 you'll see a surviving spouse, they'll get $1,176. That
21 would turn into 4 2 hours a month of home care.
22 If they go over that, they will pay out of
23 pocket to the provider directly whatever the provider
24 will charge them. But for the first 42 hours, the VA
25 benefit will pay for it. Page: 10 9 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 That's really about all I have on how we do
2 and what we do. My also thing is to work with the county
3 VSOs. I am -- if you haven't known by now from my Jersey
4 accent, I am from New Jersey.
5 And we have representatives all over
6 Pennsylvania as well. We have three full-time reps that
7 cover Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Harrisburg. So we
8 have covered the state.
9 We probably do need more regional managers.
10 But, you know, just listening to you gentlemen and this
11 nice young lady, you know, with their testimony and
12 working with the VSOs, it's just something that I know I
13 want to do more of.
14 I believe that Veterans Home Care could be
15 part of the solution to help our aging veterans.
16 And, again, I want to thank you, sir, for
17 giving me the opportunity to present my company to you.
18 And I'm, obviously, open for questions. Thank you.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Anybody have
20 questions for the testifier?
21 Steve? Chairman?
22 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: So when you do
23 the zero interest loan, when they get the retroactive
24 check, that's to pay back the loan?
25 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct. Page: 110 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: Okay.
2 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct.
3 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: When they get a
4 monthly benefit, are they getting the full monthly
5 benefit or you don't take a percentage off -
6 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Always the monthly
7 benefit, the full monthly benefit.
8 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: And the last
9 question is when they get this benefit from the VA,
10 they're able to use it for many different kinds of
11 healthcare -
12 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct.
13 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: -- is that
14 correct?
15 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct.
16 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: You only are
17 able to make money for your company when they sign up for
18 certain providers.
19 Do you try to get the people you help to
20 sign up for your providers or do the folks know that
21 they're eligible to use that money for other services?
22 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Before we go into the
23 home -- that's a fantastic question -- before we go into
24 the home, before any of that starts, we educate them that
25 they could do this on their own, that they could go to Page: 111 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 the VA, that they could qualify for the pension and do it
2 on their own.
3 And, plus, they could use that money not
4 just for home care or adult day care, they could use it
5 for other medical expenses.
6 So they are fully aware of that. More
7 times than not, they don't want to deal with that so they
8 bring us in.
9 If they sign up with Veterans Home Care,
10 that money -- and they have to sign the agreement -- that
11 money is only to be used for either home care and adult
12 day care.
13 But they are aware that they could use it
14 for other purposes if they go on their own.
15 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: Home care or
16 adult day care at one of the facilities that you guys a
17 have a business -
18 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Correct.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: -- relationship
20 with?
21 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Correct. Correct.
22 And if we don't, we will get them. I mean,
23 we've never been turned away from a provider or adult day
24 care.
25 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: How long is that Page: 112 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 commitment? If a veteran signs up and then decides two
2 months later they want to keep getting the benefit but
3 use it for other healthcare-related things, has your
4 company locked them into a certain period of time with
5 your provider?
6 MR. SINGAGLIESE: You know, just yesterday,
7 just yesterday -- we are overhauling that.
8 It was a one-year agreement. But now it's
9 going to be probably just for until we get paid back our
10 loan.
11 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: Just the initial
12 startup period?
13 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That's it. And then if
14 they want to leave us, they can and they can use the
15 money for anything they need in the medical expenses.
16 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: And they're
17 aware that they can leave because of -
18 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Absolutely.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: -- the initial
20 conversation or some -
21 MR. SINGAGLIESE: The initial conversation.
22 Everything happens before we go into the home.
23 Okay. We don't enter the home until they
24 have that understanding that they're using the funds with
25 Veterans Home Care for a home care or adult day care and Page: 113 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 that they can leave us to use it for other medical
2 expenses.
3 REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELSON: Okay. Thanks
4 for the information.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Representative
6 Gillen.
7 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Yeah. Thank you
8 very much, Bob.
9 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Yeah. No problem.
10 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Just a diagnostic
11 question: Do you encourage the veterans or their
12 families to share bank account information and draw down
13 on that?
14 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Yeah. They -- no.
15 Remember what I just said, I'm not a financial advisor.
16 So what happens is if we know that they're
17 over on assets, we do have agreements with elder law
18 attorneys and financial advisors and we will give them
19 those phone numbers, that information.
20 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay.
21 MR. SINGAGLIESE: I don't have the
22 expertise to do that.
23 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: You don't have the
24 expertise -- I'm sorry to what?
25 MR. SINGAGLIESE: To tell them how to spend Page: 114 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 down their money.
2 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay. So there's
3 no sharing of account information with any -
4 MR. SINGAGLIESE: No. There is at the time
5 of application, sure.
6 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Bank account
7 information?
8 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Oh, yeah. They have
9 the -- not just bank accounts, everything, IRAs stocks
10 bonds, all that, any liquid assets.
11 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay. And is that
12 bank account information shared with other agencies or
13 for-profits that you work with?
14 MR. SINGAGLIESE: No. None whatsoever.
15 Just us.
16 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay. What is the
17 net income of the company overall and how many states are
18 you in?
19 MR. SINGAGLIESE: We are in 44 states.
20 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay.
21 MR. SINGAGLIESE: When you say the net
22 income? Of them, you mean?
23 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: The aggregate,
24 yeah.
25 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Yeah. I mean, it really Page: 115 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 depends. And a great guide for me that I use is, like,
2 when you look at the amount of the benefit that they
3 apply for, if they're making anywhere from a thousand to
4 $1,50 0 over that amount, they'll probably qualify.
5 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay. So you don't
6 have any information on the net income of the
7 corporation?
8 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Of my company, you mean?
9 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Yeah.
10 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah it's
11 a private -- all right. I'm sorry. I misunderstood your
12 question.
13 Yeah. I don't have that. I mean, it is a
14 private company. I'm not aware of -- I mean, I could
15 only guess what it is.
16 Last year, I know our revenue was over 30
17 million, but I don't know what our net was.
18 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Okay. Final
19 question. Sometimes there's controversy relative to
20 veterans organizations and executive compensation.
21 Do you have any information about executive
22 compensation at your company?
23 MR. SINGAGLIESE: No, I do not, none
24 whatsoever.
25 REPRESENTATIVE GILLEN: Thank you. Page: 116 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you. Any
3 other questions for this -- go ahead, Chairman.
4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Thank you,
5 Mr. Chairman.
6 Bob, I'm a little confused. I thought that
7 you said that once they exceed this benefits that's
8 around, then the company will bill them directly for the
9 additional home care services or adult day care services.
10 But then in an answer to Steve's question,
11 I get the impression that this benefit is like a check
12 that comes to them and they pay for the first 42 hours -
13 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Right.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: -- of service
15 out of that.
16 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct.
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: So this is a
18 direct check coming to the veteran or his spouse?
19 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct. It goes
20 directly into their account.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Okay.
22 MR. SINGAGLIESE: So let's use a surviving
23 spouse for example. Again, if they -- it will come out
24 to 42 hours a month of home care, so the 1,176 will go to
25 them. Then they pay us, okay, they pay us. Page: 117 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Now, let's say they need 60 hours a month
2 of home care. The 18 hours is billed directly from the
3 provider who's doing the home care to the veteran or the
4 surviving spouse.
5 So for the additional 18 hours, they're
6 paying out of pocket to the provider directly.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Okay. And
8 for the first 42 hours, they're paying out of pocket -
9 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Well, they're using the
10 benefit.
11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: -- funded by
12 this benefit.
13 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Okay. And
15 then what happens when the rates change, the per hourly
16 rate?
17 MR. SINGAGLIESE: No. They're locked in;
18 they don't change their rates. I mean, whatever the rate
19 is that they sign up, that's what they get.
20 If anything, they're going to get more
21 money from the VA if they increase the benefit. But
22 whatever rate that they lock into, that's their rate is
23 forever.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Forever.
25 Okay. Thank you very much. Page: 118 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Yeah. No problem.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Representative
3 Saccone.
4 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: Thank you.
5 Do you have any competitors in this field?
6 MR. SINGAGLIESE: If you ask Bonnie
7 Laiderman, the answer is no. But there are other
8 companies out there that do what we do.
9 However, we are the only company that that
10 has -- and we call it boots on ground -- we are the only
11 company that goes to their home and sits down with them
12 to go over the whole VA application and all the other
13 documents that we need.
14 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: And my other
15 question would be because we have this problem with
16 emergency, with our EMSs. So if the check goes to the
17 person -
18 MR. SINGAGLIESE: That is correct.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: -- and they
20 decide, Hey, I'm going to use that money somewhere else,
21 I'm not paying you this month, do you have any problems
22 with that, what happens?
23 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Less than 1 percent,
24 thank God. But, yes, I mean it does happen.
25 REPRESENTATIVE SACCONE: Okay. Thank you. Page: 119 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Representative
2 Dush, that'll be your last.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DUSH: Just a quick
4 question. I know you said you didn't have information on
5 the executive salaries.
6 But, for example, someone like yourself who
7 goes out and into the field, it's got to take a
8 significant amount of money with travel expense and wages
9 and stuff like that.
10 I'd be interested what's the typical wage
11 or salary for someone like yourself and how in the world,
12 if you're not taking -- I mean, that $8 an hour doesn't
13 seem like it's going far.
14 MR. SINGAGLIESE: No, I hear you. You
15 know, we've been in business since 2003. So we've helped
16 over 14,000, we're climbing up to 15,000 veteran
17 families.
18 A representative, somebody like myself,
19 starts anywhere from 40 to 60 thousand dollars a year
20 based on their expertise.
21 REPRESENTATIVE DUSH: Thank you.
22 MR. SINGAGLIESE: You're welcome.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Great. There's
24 no other questions.
25 Thank you for your testimony today. Page: 120 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Thank you.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: We appreciate
3 it.
4 MR. SINGAGLIESE: Thank you very, very
5 much.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Okay. We have
7 just a couple more minutes. I didn't know there were a
8 couple people who didn't get to ask questions of General
9 Weller.
10 Are they still interested? Was there
11 anyone that didn't get their question answered? If
12 not -- Martina?
13 General, do you want to -- why don't you
14 just grab a microphone, you can just stay there with
15 Representative Dush.
16 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: Yeah. That's fine.
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Try to wrap this
18 up real quick.
19 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: Got it, boss. No
20 problem.
21 My quick question is really just to find
22 out: Are there any efforts to encourage local hospitals
23 and other type of medical facilities when they take in
24 patients to actually ask those questions because it
25 sounded like it was pretty successful from what you were Page: 121 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 doing.
2 But then maybe, you know, with your
3 relations into the communities, can we build that up and
4 get more information so that it can be put into our state
5 database of veterans?
6 MAJOR GENERAL WELLER: I'm not quite sure
7 how to answer that. I don't know if I actually have the
8 answer.
9 I know that there are efforts in that
10 regard -- actually, do you know of anything formal?
11 REPRESENTATIVE WHITE: Or even like a
12 formal training for hospitals to take advantage of from
13 the state level so that they can make sure that an
14 individual within their hospital or their medical
15 facility, even just local doctors' offices, they can make
16 sure that the people at the front desk, when they have
17 individuals coming in, that they're asking the question,
18 Are you veteran?
19 You know, and then we can make sure that
20 that's being captured and we can, you know, get to them
21 more easily.
22 MS. OSBORNE: It's an excellent suggestion.
23 And part of our opportunity with the survey that I
24 mentioned that we did is where there's gaps.
25 And that is an identified gap in terms Page: 122 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 of -- and this needs to happen at the local level. So at
2 the local level, you know, you know your community
3 partners best at the local level, including your
4 hospitals and those hospital case managers and discharge
5 planners who every day, pretty much in crisis mode,
6 because everybody waits until Friday at 4:00 -
7 physicians -- to discharge folks, so -- there's no
8 doctors here, right? Yeah.
9 I mean, that is an issue. But to your good
10 suggestion, that is part of the survey process of a gap
11 that we've identified.
12 So working with our aging network
13 providers, with our partners at the DMVA, with the
14 Hospital Association of Pennsylvania and AARP was an
15 excellent suggestion, too, that was made before.
16 All of those collaborative efforts are
17 occurring so that folks are aware of the registry and
18 folks then know where to point to veterans to receive the
19 services that they're not receiving for which they say
20 the good answer of I didn't know that was available.
21 Most older Pennsylvanians don't know the
22 array of services and supports that are available to
23 them, and we need to do a better job of educating them
24 and also those who help them, all of those points of
25 entry. Page: 123 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 It's a great suggestion, though. Thank
2 you.
3 MR. FOSTER: Can I add something? If I can
4 add, the Nursing Association in Pennsylvania has a
5 program, it's called "Just Ask." And I believe that's
6 the title, if I remember right.
7 But really it's a triage question, Are you
8 a veteran? Because if a veteran comes in and they ask,
9 Are you veteran?
10 And the person says, Yes, I served in
11 Vietnam, you know, they can think of the Agent Orange
12 presumptive conditions and -- you know, it's a great
13 program. And it should be expanded.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Thank you.
15 Was there anybody else that had a question?
16 Okay. Great. Just for closing remarks,
17 I'll tell you what, I heard several people say that
18 they've learned a lot.
19 I think the whole committee, from both
20 sides, from both different committees, have learned a lot
21 today about the different programs out there.
22 We thank you for your excellent testimony
23 today and taking time to be here with us and truly
24 appreciate your presence.
25 Chairman Hennessey, anything? Page: 124 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 Any of the other chairmen?
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HENNESSEY: Just let me
3 say thank you very much for your attendance here today.
4 I think we all learned a lot. And when
5 we're learning something that we can pass on to our
6 veterans to help them make their lives easier in return
7 for the sacrifices they made for our country, you know, I
8 think we're doing a good job. It's a good day.
9 Thank you.
10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Chairman
11 Sainato.
12 MINORITY CHAIRMAN SAINATO: I, too, just
13 want to echo Chairman Barrar, Chairman Hennessey's
14 comments.
15 I thank you. I learned today. I think all
16 of our members learned something.
17 And when you put both of these committees
18 together, our interests are all the same, whether
19 veterans or senior citizens.
20 And it was a pleasure hearing from each and
21 every one of you. And we're going to continue to move
22 forward on our efforts.
23 So thank you for the testifiers and thank
24 the members for their questions and for coming here
25 today. Page: 125 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN BARRAR: Commandant
2 Coleman, we're yours now.
3 So this hearing is adjourned.
4 (The Proceedings was concluded at
5 12:24 p.m.)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 Page: 126 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE - PUBLIC HEARING, 8/28/2018
1 CERTIFICATION
2
3 I, SUZANNE WALINSKY, a Court Reporter and 4 PA Notary Public, hereby certify that the foregoing is a 5 true and accurate transcript of the deposition of said
6 witness who was first duly sworn by me on the date and 7 place herein before set forth.
8
9 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither
10 attorney nor counsel for, not related to nor employed by
11 any of the parties to the action in which this deposition
12 was taken; and further that I am not a relative or 13 employee of any attorney or counsel employed in this 14 action, nor am I financially interested in this case. 15 16
17 18
19
20
21
22
23
24 SUZ Cou 25 PA NOTARY PUBLIC
deposit! 215.564.3905 215.751.0581 855.204.8184 1600 Market Street, Suite 1700 ■ Philadelphia, PA 19103 FAX PHONE www.advanceddepositions.com