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Dáil Éireann Vol. 762 Tuesday, No. 3 24 April 2012 DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DÁIL ÉIREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Dé Máirt, 24 Aibreán 2012. Ceisteanna — Questions Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Priority Questions …………………………… 277 Other Questions …………………………… 286 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 296 Topical Issue Matters ……………………………… 304 Ceisteanna — Questions (resumed) Other Questions (resumed) The Taoiseach …………………………… 305 Estimates for Public Services 2012: Messages from Select Committees …………… 319 Order of Business ……………………………… 319 Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions: Motion ………………… 326 Topical Issue Debate Pension Provisions …………………………… 327 Nursing Home Repayment Scheme ……………………… 329 Departmental Reports …………………………… 331 Garda Stations ……………………………… 333 Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Second Stage (resumed)……………………………336 Motion to Instruct Committee ………………………… 344 Private Members’ Business Motorist Emergency Relief Bill 2012: Second Stage ………………… 357 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 379 DÁIL ÉIREANN ———— Dé Máirt, 24 Aibreán 2012. Tuesday, 24 April 2012. ———— Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2.00 p.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Ceisteanna — Questions Priority Questions ———— Sale of State Assets 107. Deputy Sean Fleming asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will ensure that the sale of State assets will not include the disposal of any assets of a company involved in the provision of water supply to households throughout the country; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20542/12] Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Deputy Brendan Howlin): As the House will be aware, the Government decided last week that the new Irish water utility is to be an indepen- dent State-owned subsidiary of Bord Gáis Éireann. The new water utility is not and will not be included in the Government’s programme of State asset disposals. The Government is com- mitted to keeping it under State control. Bord Gáis Éireann is an excellent example of a strong, vibrant and dynamic State company, which has demonstrated its capacity to invest and develop new, efficient and competitive busi- ness for the benefit of Irish consumers. In taking last week’s decision, the Government’s inten- tion was that a number of key synergies would be achieved between the gas and the water utilities core network functions, such as operating in a regulated environment, network manage- ment, metering and utility operation systems. It is also important to note that these core func- tions will not be impacted by the sale of Bord Gáis Energy, the energy generation and supply business of Bord Gáis Éireann, which I previously announced as part of the Government’s State asset disposal programme. Deputy Sean Fleming: Perhaps the Minister did not get the gist of the purpose of my ques- tion. Earlier this year, on 22 February, the Minister announced the Government had decided to sell Bord Gáis Éireann’s energy business. Be that as it may, we will not discuss whether it is a good idea in this debate. Subsequently, last week the Government decided in light of the experience and knowledge of Bord Gáis about metering, billing and dealing with hundreds and thousands of consumers throughout the country it should be given the job of dealing with the provision of water meters. In his opening comment the Minister—— 277 Priority 24 April 2012. Questions An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to frame a question please. Deputy Sean Fleming: In his opening comment the Minister spoke about an independent subsidiary. These two words are mutually contradictory; a subsidiary is under something else and not independent by definition. Will the Minister accept that regardless of whether the Minister, Deputy Hogan, made a hames of his role in the proposed metering of water, he will be held responsible for the possible privatisation of water meters throughout Ireland because he, as Minister, has opted to give that business to a company, part of which Government has already decided to privatise? The Government has decided to sell-off part of Bord Gáis Éireann, BGE, and, because of its expertise in metering and billing households, to give it responsibility for the new water utility. Will the Minister accept that the public will find it hard not to view this as a key step along the road to privatisation, which I accept is not the Minister’s intention at this stage? However, in light of this, I ask that the Government remove to Bord Gáis from its list of companies to be privatised. Deputy Brendan Howlin: No. Let me be crystal clear, the new State company, Irish Water, will, as far as the Government and I are concerned, be a wholly State owned company per omnia saecula saeculorum. This will be enshrined in specific legislation to be introduced. Irish Water will be a State company providing water in an integrated manner across the State. It is wholly different from the sale of the energy generating component of BGE. We want to keep the expertise that set up and developed BGE and to use it in setting up the next fine State company. Things are not set in aspic. The next major State company, the biggest since the ESB was founded, will be Irish Water. Bord Gáis Eireann, in terms of its level of expertise in managing a publicly owned company with a distribution, billing and metering system, has the management structure which the Government wants to roll out over time — it will be years before all of this is put in place properly — the new Irish Water company. That is the logic behind it. The parallel issue of setting up competition within the energy sector, which the energy gener- ating component of BGE will provide as competition for the wholly State owned ESB, will also be good for the consumer. Deputy Sean Fleming: Will the Minister accept that the more he speaks the more he confuses the issue in the public mind? The Minister stated in his initial reply that Irish Water would be an independent subsidiary of Bord Gáis. In his subsequent reply he said it would be a wholly owned State company. It cannot be both. It must be one or the other. It will be owned by Bord Gáis, not the State. Deputy Brendan Howlin: The State owns Bord Gáis. Deputy Sean Fleming: It does not own the shares in its subsidiary companies. Deputy Brendan Howlin: It does. Deputy Sean Fleming: It does not, Bord Gáis owns them. The Minister should check com- pany law. One does not own the assets of a company just because one owns a share in it. That is a fact. I again plead with the Minister to remove Bord Gáis from its list of companies to be part privatised by way of the sale of assets given it is the company to which the Government is giving the water metering and billing service in regard to the provision of water. The two services should not be combined in one company. Deputy Brendan Howlin: I thought earlier that the Deputy was just being inquisitive. I know now he is being mischievous. I will clarify the position again. Irish Water will be set up as a 278 Priority 24 April 2012. Questions subsidiary of a wholly owned State company, namely, BGE. It will be wholly State owned. It is intended—— Deputy Sean Fleming: BGE will be the parent company. Deputy Brendan Howlin: The State owns BGE and every aspect of it. Deputy Sean Fleming: No. It owns a share of it. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Please allow the Minister to continue without interruption. Deputy Brendan Howlin: The Deputy is engaging in tautology. It is the Government’s inten- tion that the new Irish Water entity — this will be put in statute law and debated in the House — will be wholly State owned. Parallel to that, as part of the memorandum of understanding, we have looked at what non-strategic assets we could sell off. The Government has come to the conclusion that allowing for greater competition in the energy sector through the privatis- ation of the energy generating element of BGE, and for private competition to the wholly owned public entity, the ESB, which will remain as a vertically integrated wholly State com- pany, will be good for the Irish consumer. Public Sector Allowances 108. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he has brought to Cabinet the findings of his Department’s review of allowances and premium payments paid to public sector workers; and if he intends to make public these findings. [20540/12] Deputy Brendan Howlin: As the Deputy is aware from my previous replies, on 5 December last, during my address on the 2012 Expenditure Estimates, I announced that a review of allowances and premium payments would be carried out by my Department. This announce- ment was made on foot of a Government decision which requires the public service to take additional measures to deliver further efficiencies in 2012 and thereby ensure the pay bill targets which have been set are met, with a view to delivering additional pay savings in 2013 and subsequent years. The measures include a reduction of 10%, or approximately €40 million, in overtime payments in 2012. This is being achieved by means of a reduction in allocations for overtime by that amount. To date, my Department has received well over 800 business cases in respect of allowances and premium payments. As a result of resource constraints, the volume of submissions to be evaluated and the complexity and variance of allowances across all sectors, it has not been possible to complete the review in a short timeframe. Indeed, agen- cies and Departments are continuing to propose business cases and seek further explanations in advance of the completion of the review.
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