MAINE STATE LEGISLATURE

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Legislative Record

OF THE

Eighty-Seventh Legislature

OF THE

STATE OF MAINE

1935

KENNEBEC JOURNAL COMPANY AUGUSTA, MAINE 256 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-SENATE, FEBRUARY 26, 1935.

Mr. Friend from same Committee fifty printed bills that you have on "Resolve authorizing the Forest before you in your document books Commissioner to Convey certain and I failed to find in anyone of 1andE to the Highway Commission", those printed bills, outside of a few (S. P. 117) reported that the same measures that I have attempted to ought to pass. pass in this Legislature, any mea­ Which reports were severally read surt introduced by any Senator that and accepted and the bill and re­ proposed a decrease in the taxation solves laid on the table for printing in the State of Maine, decreasing under the joint rules. the burden of taxation on the home and the farm or decreasing our Passed to be Engrossed state tax at all; no attempt on be­ half of any member of the Senate Bill "An Act Relating to Tempo­ to reduce the taxes now levied upon rary Loans by Penobscot County the people of Maine. But I did find Commissioners." (H P. 601) (L. D. this: I found a proposition to re­ 644) insert that racket known as "the "Resolve in Favor of Havener paper plate racket" that would cost Webo;ter. of Orland." CR. P. 1439) the people of Maine and the State (L. D. 649) of Maine at least two hundred "Resolve for Screening Lake thousand dollars a year. I found Thompson, in the County of Ox­ the proposition that wished to ford." CR. P. 1441) (L. D. 650) place upon the hunters and fisher­ "Resolve in Favor of O. L. men of Maine another dollar annual Veague, of Castine." (H. P. 9) (L. burden. I found a proposition to D. 645) set up a director of school finances "Resolve Relative to Closing God­ with another salary attached. I dard Brook, Little." (H. P. 567) (L. found that we in the Senate wanted D.646) to set up a special investigator on "Resolve Relative to Closing God­ the transportation of poultry at a dard Brook, Big." CR. P. 569) (L. cost of three thousand dollars a D. 6~l8) year. And I found also a five mil­ lion dollar bond issue. And I also Orders of the Day found a proposition to set up some On motion by Mr. Fernald of more social welfare work. And I Waldo, the Senate voted to take found a proposition to build a from the table, Senate Report from bridge, a very expensive bridge, at the Committee on Judiciary, Ma­ the expense of the State. And I jority Report "Ought Not to Pass," found a proposition to expend nine­ Minority Report, "Ought to Pass," teen thousand five hundred dollars on Resolve Proposing an Amend­ yearly to set up a public employ­ ment to the Constitution relating ment office. And I found two thou­ to the election of the Attorney sand dollars appropriated to cele­ General (S. P. 244) (L. D. 206), brate the foundation of the County tabled by that Senator on February of York. And I found a ten thou­ 22nd pending the acceptance of sand dollar appropriation to create either report. a bureau of research to take care Mr. FERNALD of Waldo: Mr. of the Republican "lame duck." President and members of the Sen­ And I found a proposal to set up a ate, the proposition before us today series of tax administrators at the is a constitutional amendment pro­ expense of the State. And I :ound viding that we should change our another proposition to foster upon method of selection of our Attorney the State of Maine every state General. Under our present law pauper in the State of Maine. And the Attorney General of Maine is I found another proposition to ap­ elected by the Legislature, as every point a commission on the assess­ member of the Senate is well aware. ment and collection of real estate The proposed constitutional amend­ taxes, at another thousand dollars. ment would provide that the At­ Now, I think that if I sense the torney General of Maine, who is feeling of the people of Maine, what the legal advisor of the Governor they want is some relief from taxa­ and of the heads of the depart­ tion and they want us to make our ments and of the Legislature, should government more useful, more effi­ be apPointed by the Governor. cient and more responsive to their We have been here nine weeks will. Now, the proposition before and the other evening I took the us is not a new one. In 1930 there time to go over the six hundred and was a research made in regard to LEGISLATIVE RECORD-SENATE, FEBRUARY 26,1935 257 our "o\~:'nment in lV!aine under the Ohio Oklahoma and Oregon, elected direction of the National Institute by t'he peopie. In Pennsylvania, of Public Administrators dming the appointed by the Governor, . In 8dmiGi:otration of Governor Gar­ Rhode Island, South Carolma, dinpl' And what did that Bmeau South Dakota, by the people. In do relative to the offlce of Attorney Tennessee, it is appointed by the Genera; 0 I will quote from this Judges of the Supreme Court. In report at the top of page 211. On Texas Utah, Vermont, Virginia, the previous page they have gone Wushlngton, west ,virginia ~nd .Wis­ imo EOmc of the history back of it, consin and Wyommg, electIOn IS by but they reported as follows: "As the people. And we find that the such, he "-meaning the Attorney cnly stat€ in the .Ul1lon that ~tlll GeEcral-- "should be appointed by sticks to the LegIslatIve appomt­ and held directly responsible to the mel:t of the Attorney General if the Execmivl' and we recommend con­ State of Maine. sticutional amendment to this end," Now, there is a little theory back And that is whRt you have before of this that I would like to read to \"CU tod~H" I find that the National vou that won't do any harm. I be­ 1:unicipn'l League in 1926 made a lie,'e that the theory of permitting studv of state government and the Legislature to appoint the throllgh their investigation they Attorney General is wrong. And I set up what they term a model will quote in that connection from state constitution and in that state John Stuart Mill, and John Stuart constitution that they suggest, they Mill as some of vou will recall, was suggest that the Attorney General a member of the . British Parliament should be appointed by the Gover­ from 1858 to 1868, and I will read nor and held responsible to the very briefly from his book on Goven;ol', in line with the report "Representative Government", And tl1a t I have just read you, I will say, gentlemen and lady mem­ Now, what is the practice in other ber, it is time ve got back to rep­ states on this proposition? You resentative government in the know, Maine prides itself on being" state and in the nation. I will unique regardless of whether it is read briefly from John Stuart Mill. right or wrong. I suppose that "But while it is essential to rep­ when I get through debating this resentative government that the question, which will be very short­ practical supremacy in the state ly. somebody will get up and say should reside in the representatives that bReause we in Maine, where of the people. it is an open question we 11:1\ e as our motto "I direct", what actual functions, what precise elect our Attorney General by the part in the machinery of govern­ Legislature, being the only state in ment, shall be directly and per­ the Union to do that we should get wnally discharged by the represen­ a great deal of advertising from it. ta ti \'e body. There is a radical dis­ And that the inefficiency of the tinction between controlling the Attol'nev General, as it must work business of government and actually out to 'be because of the system, doing it. Numerous representative tha t ineffieiency is worth the cost bodies ought not to administer. because of the advertising we get But a popular assembly is still less from it. That is the traditional fitted to administer, than a select argument that I hear presented board, or to dictate in detail to when any change of whatsoever those who have charge of adminis­ nature is proposed. For instance, tration. Even when honestly meant, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Cali­ the interference is almost always fornia, Colorado, Connecticut, Dela­ injurious. Every branch of public ware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, and administration is a skilled business. Illinois elect their Attorney Gen­ which has its own peculiar prin­ erals. In Indiana he is appointed ciples and traditional rules, many by the Governor, In Iowa, Kansas, of them not even known, in any Kentucky, Louisiana, he is elected effectual way, except to those who by the people, In Maryland, Massa­ ha\'e at some time had a hand in chusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mis­ carrying on the business, and none sissippi. Missouri. Montana, Ne­ of them likely to be duly appreci­ braska, and Nevada, elected by the ated by persons not practically people. In New Hampshire and acquainted with the department, New Jersey he is appointed by the At its best, it is inexperience sit­ Governor. In New Mexico, New ting in judgment on experience; York. North Carolina, North Dakota, ignorance on knowledge. The prop- 2;)3 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-SEN!,TE. FEBEUARY 26, 1935.

er c.uty of a representative assenlbly \':culd be well if the State of Maine in Ieg~Speaker of the Federal evolvncl, the people decided that the House, Lucilius Emery, who was geVf.:::l'llr;.12nt, vvhiet1 r2present~d the Chief Justice; Orville B. Baker, who P2:-,D~e, :~};Guld have s~·m,cth:ng to was one of the most distinguished sav [!bout it. That is the theory here la wvers in the Sta te of MEine; in'Maine, vVe live under a Constitu­ JusLice Powers who served aE Asso­ tional form of government. We do ciate Jw;tice of the Supreme Judi­ not lin' under a bureaucracy or cial Court; .Judge Sturgis, Chie! autocratic form of government. Justice Pattangall; and in addition If some suggestion w'as made that to that, there was another man who th2 Deonle should elect the attorney has made a name for himself be­ gene'raJ: I might subscribe to it. But ca use he is now a member of the we 8re not. we arc to cho03e betweell highest court next to one in the those two alternntives.-we are to state or nation, and I refer to Judge choose whether he should be ap­ S:;ott Wilson. wilo now ~erves in the pointed by the Governor or whether Circuit Ccurt of Appeals of the that offiCe should be filled by the ~Jnit2d States for the first district. legislature in jOint session as­ Certainly such a system that put sembled. these men in office must not be Now, if under our statutes, the wrcng', and it seems to me for the attorney general acted only as the re~,sons that I have already stated personal advisor of the ex~cutive that the' majority report of the there might be some merlt 111 the Judiciary Committee, "ought not to propoEed suggestion, but an exarrj­ PJ."'" should be accepted. nat-ion of the statutes will show that Mr. ASHBY of Aroostook: Mr. the attorney general of the State President. I am probably dense but of Maine not only acts as counsel I would like a little information if fa,' the chief executive but he also I may have permission to ask a acts as counsel to the Secretary question of the Senator from Wal­ of Sta te and the Treasurer of do. Senator Fernald. State and the heads of the various The PRESIDENT: The Senator departments, and last but not least, from Aroostook, Senator Ashby, he also [lets as adviser to the legis­ wishes to ask a question of the Sen­ lature and hey may at any time ator from Waldo, Senator Fernald, call upon him to render an opinion. through the Chair, and that Senator Therefore, the duties of the attor­ may answer if he desires. ney general are twofold;-he is re­ Mr. ASHBY: Mr. President, just sponsible to the chief executive who what bearing, if any, does the ques­ represents the executive branch of tion of whether the attorney general our government, and also responsi­ shall be appOinted by the governor ble to the legislature, another or elected by the legislature have branch of our government. So I on the increase or decrease of tax­ say under our system of govern­ ation? ment it is better to have this Clffice Mr. FERNALD: Mr. President, I filled bv the legislature who rep­ will say for the benefit of the Sen­ resent the people, or by the people ator from Aroostook that in the tl1emselveo. proper selection of an attorney gen­ Now, there has not been any pub­ eral by one who is in sympathy with lic cry or clamor regarding this pro­ the Governor,-as you will recall, as posed change. I have seen no press every governor comes in he appoints notices advocating it, nor have I certain department heads. If we heard that the cUef executive rec­ had an attorney general who was in ommended this change. The report sympathy with the present govern­ as read by the Senator from Waldo or I am afraid that it would not be (Senator Fernald) said a recom­ nece.ssary for the Liquor Commis­ mendation was in order to have the sion to appoint legal outside aid, attorney ger:eral named by the Gov­ and I find that certain of your de­ ernor but it gives no reason, but the partment heads who are now of a rea.son I have given here seems to different complexion than the at­ me to be sufficient tc continue the torney general would look with 260 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-SENATE, FEBRUARY 26, 1935, more favor upon information from Mr. FERNALD: Mr. President, I an attorney general who \\'as ap­ would SD.y to the gentlenmn trom pointed by the governor. In other Aroostook (Senator Ashby) that it \','ords, you would do away with the \vould seem to me that if our system duplication of effort and you would of sekcting the attorney general haV2 fev,'er atto!'neys hired by the was such a splendid system, it would State and it would decrease the seem that possibly some of the other cost to the State of leg81 services. states in the Union wou!d try it. I And then you would not have the am inclined to think o'w of the big necE'ssity, for instance, in the spec­ troubles in our state government to­ ial session of the legislature when dRY is that,-at least it must im­ we took up banking legislation. the press itself clPOI1 any member who Governor found it necessary to go has been in the legislatUl'e for any out~ide and spend several thousand considerable length of time and who dollars in getting legal advice, legal h2cS been in the State House for any advice that I am inclined to think considerable length of time-that as he would not have sought and he looks on the right or as he looks which would not have had to have ahead of him, or even looks behind been paid for by the State of Maine, him or on the left, he sees duplica­ had he had an attorney general of tion of effort in the activities of the his own party. That was necessary State, duplication that is unneces­ S:lrv and duplication that the tax­ becG.use of the confidential nature payers of Maine are payinE' for. I of the information that the Gov­ am sure that I do not believe that it ernor desired to have. I think you is necessary for every department would find it would reduce the cost and every bureau connnected with of l~gal services to the State of the Stat·e Government to have a Maine. Does that answer the personal attorney, and I believe that que<,tion? this mdhod of selection, which is Mr. ASHBY: Not entirely. In all the a pproved selection, would be the cases you cited, all the bills you l:elpful in mitigating, at least to a found, they were clearly the func­ certain extent, that evil. tion of the legislature and if they It has been said here today that should pass such laws- tl1ere were no reasons given for the Mr. FERNALD: I do not '..lnder­ change. I do not care to burden the stand what you mean. g2l1t!eman from Aroostook. Senator Mr. ASHBY: In your case, it is Burns, with reading the reasons why clearly a case of supposition and you this change was proposed because do not know It is so, and it is simp­ I know that the committee, the Ju­ ly a theory on your part and it diciary Committee, has requested a would entail more or less cost to copy of this report, and if the Sen­ the State of Maine to try the ex­ ator in his leisure will turn to page periment. It might work out as you 210, he will find a complete page of say and it might not. I cannot see well thought out reasons why they, for the life of me how there is any the National Institute of Public Ad­ absolute proof that this would af­ ministratioll. felt that was the pro­ fect the taxa tion of Maine to the per manner of selecting the attor­ slightest degree. I may be dense ney-general. and if the Senator again, and sometimes I am brutally (Senator Burns) somet!me before frank but it would almost seem to he goes home from this session or me that this supposition could be before he comes back here for an­ construed as a clear refiection on other session, will turn to Professor the attorney r.;eneral who has been Holcombe's "State Government in elected by the legislature. There are the United States", and will turn several bills here that would seem to the Model Constitution in the to indicate that we were a bunch of back of the book, page 579, he will dummies. I am not ready to admit it find other reasons outlined. just yet, but I cannot see for the I think the difference in opinion life of me how you or anybody else existing between myself and Sen­ could show this would be absolutely ator Burns is this, that my theory true, that it would decrease the tax­ of government is this: If we elect a ation of Maine provided the Gov­ man governor we want to hold him ernor appointed the attorney gen­ responsible and then we will know eraL Personally, I am opposed to a at the end of two years whether we coneentration of power and it would want to re-elect him or not, and almost seem to me that 184 are there will not be thL~ mysticism and more capable of picking a man than the cloak of uncertainty that vails one is, regardless of how brilliant the man in office. The people will that man may be. know whether he is a good govern- LEGISLATIVE RECORD-SENATE, FEBRUARY 26, 1935 261

or or whether he has fallen down in of the Senate and with the Clerk of the affairs of the state government. the House a report of the number Mr. ASHBY: Mr. President, the of bills and resolves referred to gentleman from Waldo, Senator their committees and their dis­ Fernald, persists in harping upon position, the first report to be filed other states. I think according to his forthwith as of February 22nd, and own report that there are only four weekly reports to be filed on Fri­ states, as I remember it, where the day of each week. attorney general holds ofll.ce by ap­ In the House, read and passed. pOintment. Like my brother from In the Senate, on motion by Mr. Aroostook (Senator Burns) if this Schnurle of Cumberland, the order was a proposition to elect by popu­ was laid upon the table pending lar vote, I think I would be in fav­ passage in concurrence. or of it. Os it is, I hope the minority ~~-- report will not prevail. On motion by Mr. Schnurle of The PRESIDENT: Is the Senate Cumberland, the Senate voted to ready for the question? take from the table, Joint Order Mr. FERNALD: Mr. President, I relative to reports of Clerks of Joint ask for a division. Standing Committees, just pre­ The PRESIDENT: The question viously tabled by that Senator is on the motion of the Senator pending passage in concurrence. from Waldo, Senator Fernald, that Mr. SCHNURLE of Cumberland: the Minority Report "Ought to Mr. President and members of the Pass" be accepted, and the Senator Senate, I can see no particular rea­ from Waldo, Sena tor Fernald, asks son for this. I don't know whether for a division. it has ever been done before. It A division of the Senate was had. hasn't to my knowledge. I don't Two having voted in the affirm­ know the value of it. I do know it ative and twenty-four opposed the would necessitate a tremendous motion to accept the Minority Re­ amount of work and I believe it is port "Ought to Pass" did not pre­ entirely unnecessary. I move for vail. the indefinite postponement of the Thereupon, on motion by Mr. order. Burns of Aroostook, the Majority Thereupon, the order was indefi­ Report "Ought not to Pass" was ac­ nitely postponed in non-concur­ cepted. rence. Sent down for concurrence. From the House, out of order: Ordered, the Senate concurring, On motion by Mr. Blaisdell of that the Clerks of the Joint Stand­ Hancock, ing Committees be and hereby are Adjourned, until tomorrow morn­ directed to file with the Secretary ing at ten o'clock.