STATE Government LIBRARY of South Australia
STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
OH 1/3
Full transcript of an interview with
MARY WATER1VIAN
on 1 AUGUST 1985
by Beth Robertson for 'SA SPEAKS': AN ORAL HISTORY OF LIFE IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA BEFORE 1930
Recording available on cassette
Access for research: Unrestricted
Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study
Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the State Library OH 1/3 MARY WATERMAN
NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT This transcript was donated to the State Library. It was not created by the J.D. Somerville Oral History Collection and does not necessarily conform to the Somerville Collection's policies for transcription. Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken word and reflects the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. The State Library is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the interview, nor for the views expressed therein. As with any historical source, these are for the reader to judge. This transcript had not been proofread prior to donation to the State Library and has not yet been proofread since. Researchers are cautioned not to accept the spelling of proper names and unusual words and can expect to find typographical errors as well.
2 ATB/3/129-3i Mrs Mary WATERMAN 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
Preface iii
Notes to the Transcript iv
Family and Background 1 Father's desertion of family
Childhood 10 City home Pastimes
Schooling 29 Flinders Street Model School St Joseph's, Pine Street Move to Prospect
Work 36 Clothing trade: D & W Murray Ltd, G & R Wills & Co, Goode, Durrant & Co
Courtship and Marriage 49 Hard times
Children 54 Childbirth Child's death
Index 61
Collateral Material in File 8503 includes: A copy of autobiographical handwritten memoir 'Down Memory Lane' (M8503) and Photographs (P)8503A,B
Cover Illustration Mary Barry (Waterman) aged about 17 in the costume that won her first prize at the end of year fancy dress ball at the Druid's Hall, Walkerville, (P8503A). ATB/3/129-3i Mrs Mary WATERMAN iii 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
PREFACE
Mary Waterman (nee Barry) was born in 1894. After her father deserted her and her mother about two years later, Mary was brought up in her maternal Irish Catholic grandmother's cottage in Daly Street, Adelaide. Surrounded by variously employed and unemployed uncles, she remembers a lean but busy and happy childhood. The family moved to Prospect in 1907, coinciding with Mary leaving school at thirteen and beginning seven years work as a machinist in clothing factory workrooms in the city. Mary married out of the Church in 1914 to more hard times, and gave birth to her six children before 1930, her second son dying as an infant of meningitis in 1917. Mrs Waterman always took in dressmaking to help support her family and over the years has invariably had parents and grandchildren in her home to care for as well.
Mrs Waterman was 90 years of age at the time of the interview.
Mrs Waterman is a willing and eloquent speaker with a good memory for detail. Many of these early episodes in her life have evidently been told and retold (i.e. her father's desertion and her child's death) and have become most effective, but nonetheless accurate, stories for it.
The interview took place in her sitting room and the quality of the tape recording is good although the record level is a little high and there are some minor traffic noises.
The interview is three hours in length and was recorded in one session.
'S.A. Speaks: An Oral History of Life in South Australia before 1930' was a Jubilee 150 project conducted under the auspices of the History Trust of South Australia for two years and two months ending December 1986. The Interviewees are broadly representative of the population of South Australia as it was in the first three decades of the twentieth century. Selection of Interviewees was guided by a Sex and Occupation Sample calculated from the 1921 Census and Inter- viewees were suggested, in the main, by people who responded to 'S.A. Speaks' publicity. Each interview was preceded by an unrecorded preliminary interview during which details about the Interviewee's family history and life story were sought to help develop a framework for the interview.
As stated in the Conditions of Use for Tape Recordings and Transcripts adopted for the 'S.A. Speaks' project: 'The copyright in the item(s) [viz, the tapes and transcript of Interview 8503] and all the rights which normally accompany copyright including the right to grant or withhold access to them, conditionally or unconditionally, to publish, reproduce or broadcast them, belongs in the first instance to the History Trust of South Australia for the purposes of the 'S.A. Speaks' project and after the cessation of that project to the Libraries Board of South Australia for the purposes of the Mortlock Library of South Australiana.' ATB/3/129-3i Mrs Mary WATERMAN iv 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT
Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken word. It was the policy of the Transcriptionist, Chris Gradolf, and the Interviewer, as editor, to produce a transcript that is, so far as possible, a verbatim transcript that preserves the Interviewee's manner of speaking and the informal, conversational style of the interview. Certain conventions of trans- cription have been applied (i.e. the omission of meaningless noises, redundant false starts and a percentage of the Interviewee's crutch words). Also, each Interviewee was given the opportunity to read the transcript of their interview after it had been proofread by the Interviewer. The Interviewee's suggested alterations have been incorporated in the text (see below). On the whole, however, the document can be regarded as a raw transcript.
Researchers using the original tape recording of this interview are cautioned to check this transcript for corrections, additions or deletions which have been made by the Interviewer or the Interviewee but which will not occur on the tapes. Minor discrepancies of gram mar and sentence structure made in the interest of readability can be ignored but significant changes such as deletions of information or correction of fact should be, respectively, duplicated or acknowledged when the tape recorded version of this interview is used for broadcast or publication on cassettes.
Abbreviations
The Interviewee, Mary Waterman, is referred to by the initials MW in all editorial insertions in the transcript.
Punctuation
Square brackets [ ] indicate all material in the transcript that does not occur on the original tape recording.
The Interviewee's initials after a word, phrase or sentence in square brackets, i.e. [word or phrase MW] indicates that the Interviewee made this particular insertion or correction. All uninitialled parentheses were made by the Interviewer.
Sentences that were left unfinished in the normal manner of conversation are shown ending in three dashes, - -
Spelling
Wherever possible the spelling of proper names and unusual ter ms has been verified. Where uncertainty remains the word has been marked with a cross in the right hand margin of the Interview Log and Data Sheet which can be consulted in the Interview File.
Typeface
The Interviewer's questions are shown in bold print. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 1. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
'S.A. Speaks: An Oral History of Life in South Australia Before 1930' Beth Robertson interviewing Mrs Mary Waterman ammummil a gm mg on 1 August 1985
TAPE 1 SIDE A
Well, let's start with your name. Is Mary Waterman your full name?
No, Mary Theresa.
And were you known as Mary?
No, I had a nickname - called Mamie. I don't know where I got it but it was tacked on to me somewhere along the way.
Do you think you were named for someone in particular?
I was named after my grandmother. She was Mary Ellen O'Brien. That's where I got the Mary from, but I don't know where the Ellen came from - the Theresa, I mean.
What was your maiden name.
Barry.
And what was your date of birth?
December first 1894.
And where were you born?
Hampton Street, Goodwood.
Had your parents been living there long, do you know?
No, I don't know.
And you didn't grow up there, did you?
No. I don't know just what age I was but I first - - I remember I was living with my grandmother at Number Seven 7 Daly Street, Adelaide. And I don't remember any other home in my childhood other than that.
From what you've told me, you didn't know your father at all.
No.
Do you know what the circumstances were of him leaving your mother?
I don't really know. I was never told anything. But as the years rolled on and I just heard little bits of conversation. I gathered he drank a good deal, because I can remember the night I was born he was supposed to be in the ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 2. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
kitchen playing the accordian 'After the Ball Was Over' and my mother could never stand that particular piece of music. So I don't really know. But - -
Did you ever meet him?
Well, that's what I was just going to tell you. I suppose I was about five. I was playing in the front street - like we always used to sit in the gutter in those days - - I was playing out there and this soldier came and he went into my grandmother's house and I just saw him, and after a while when he came out he picked me up and he kissed me goodbye. Well then, when I went inside to talk about this, 'Oh, that was your Uncle Dick they said. So Uncle Dick I thought it was until some years later, when I first started to work at D & W Murray's in James Place, my father's youngest sister was working opposite in the tailoring - Kurtz & Harpers [The National Clothing Manufac- turing Co.?] it was called; long since gone I think - and she told me that it was my father that had came to see me and seen my mother before he went. Because I remember that particular day that he did go, when I went inside Mum was crying.
And he'd gone to South Africa?
He'd gone to South Africa. And he fought in the Boer War. And Mum used to teach me a song - 'The Boers have got my Daddy, my soldier Dad'. And I used to sing this and she'd play it on the accordian. I had a very happy childhood, because Mum had seven brothers and they of course spoilt me, I suppose.
So, did it not trouble you do you think?
Not in the least. Because - - -. The children at school used to say, 'Haven't you got a father?'. And I'd just say, 'No, he's gone to the war' - you know, and that sort of thing. Or 'He's in South Africa', whatever came into my mind, but it didn't worry me one bit. Only other kids had a father and I didn't. But it still didn't worry me.
So your father's name was Richard Barry?
No. My father was John Joseph Barry.
So your mother had just made up the name?
Yes. He had a brother Richard - Dick they used to call him. 'That's your Uncle Dick.'
And do you know when he was born? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 3. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
He was born at Stockport. It's in that book. Where did you put it? [examines Birth Certificate] Ah, June the fourth 1872. So that's that.
And Stockport in England?
No, that's here in South Australia. It's - - I don't know whether they call it Stockport now. I think it's somewhere Ardrossan way, you know, that way. I wouldn't be too sure. Near Riverton? See, because - -
That was where the Certificate was filled out.
That's right - the District of Riverton.
What was his work before he left, do you know?
I think he was a bricklayer. Something to do with brick. Yes I think he was a bricklayer, because he was supposed to have worked at St Peter's Cathedral. And that's as much as I know about him because it was all hush hush.
Did he remain overseas do you know?
Yes I think so, yes. Yes, he did and after I was married and my first son was born I was in the Queen Victoria Hospital and I was reading the Advertiser. My son was born on August twelfth and of course you had to stay in bed, you know, for ten or twelve days, and I was reading the Births, Deaths and Marriage and I read his death - that he was killed by the rebels in West Africa on August fifteenth 1915.
And you recognised his name in the list?
Yes. Then I got in touch with his parents afterwards when I came out, much to Mum's horror.
Hadn't she kept in touch with his family?
No. No. He - - -. He was killed as I say. Well then, when I was well enough, I wrote to them and I got a letter back to say they were coming to South Australia, from Victoria where they lived at this time. His mother - - -. His father had died. His mother, and I think one of her daughters. I just forget who was with her but somebody was anyway. And I went to the Adelaide Station to meet them and Mum rolled up too. Of course they - they just ignored her. Well, anyway, they asked me where I lived and I told them. Well then they came out and see me and we were, you know, so pleased, and then I visited this youngest sister that I'd met. She lived at Glenelg. She'd married a footballer and she had two children and my children and me - I had two at this time - we used to go to the Bay often and visit, my husband too. Yes. Well then as time went on her husband died and I lost track. I haven't seen her for years. I think she might have passed on by now. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 4. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Had you had any contact with your father's family before that, when you were growing up?
No. No, I didn't.
And were they not spoken of?
No.
Well, of course, you were very, very much involved in your mother's family as you were growing up.
Oh yes.
What was your mother's full name?
Annie May.
And what was her maiden name?
O'Brien.
Do you know when she was born?
No, I'm not sure, but I think it might have been a couple of years after my father.
What year did she die?
1966.
And how old was she then?
Ninety one. Would have been ninety one in the March - in the May - she died in the March.
So that makes it about 1875.
Yes, well he was 1872.
Where was she born do you know, and grew up?
In the country somewhere. I'm not sure whether it was Orroroo or Morchard. Somewhere in the country.
What did her people do? Were they on the land?
Yes, farmers.
Did they own their own farm?
Yes. And they sold that and then they bought the house in Daly Street.
Had your mother ever worked herself? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 5. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
No. Only at home. Because, as I say, she had seven brothers and had plenty to do.
Did the whole family, all the brothers included, come down to Adelaide?
No, one was in Western Australia where he stayed for years and years - the eldest one - he was in Western Australia. He went with the gold rush - never came back for years.
What about the sorts of work that the other brothers did?
Well, my Uncle Will, he was a - I think they called them a spiker or something on the railway lines. Uncle Jack worked in the Electricity Trust - digging the post holes for the lights. And Frank - I just don't know what he did. Of course Fred was a footballer and I think he got enough money out of that
Oh, do you think so?
I think he must have because he didn't do much work anyway. He seemed to be always home, except when he played football.
And he played for South Adelaide?
Yes, he did. And I still follow South Adelaide.
That's four, four or five of your uncles.
Yes. Well Uncle Joe, he was a farmer. He stayed in the country. Oh, well, Uncle Charlie, he worked at the Chill Butter Factor [Adelaide Chilled Butter & Produce Co.].
Oh, where was that?
That was in Adelaide somewhere. I think Stanfords, or Sanfords, took it over afterwards. I'm not too sure about this, but I think that.
Chilled Butter?
Chilled Butter Factory - it was called in those days.
Now, how did the household support itself?
I think Grandmother had some money left over. She must have done, other than that I don't know how they existed. But I can remember when she got the first Old Age Pension. It was less than ten shillings a week - I think it was six shillings something - because I used to go with her up to the Post Office to collect it.
How old were you then? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 6. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Oh, we had moved then from Daly Street. She sold her house in Daly Street and bought one in Boyle Street, Prospect, where I lived the remainder of my single days. And she - - -. She used to go up to the Prospect Post Office to collect her pension and I'd go with her. I can see her now. She was a, rather a robust woman, you know. And she used to wear a cape and little bonnet with a rose on it. You know, so different. And she was only in her sixties, and here's me at ninety and I wouldn't go out like that.
Well, how many of your uncles lived in the household with you in Daly Street?
Fred. Frank went to Port Pine then he worked in the smelters but that's just come to my mind. Only Fred and Jack. Will was away on the 'line, Charlie was married.
How many of them married?
Well, they married very late in life, except Charlie. He married and then Joe married late in life. Then Frank married and Fred - oh he was home for a long time. Then he went away to Crystal Brook and he met a woman up there and married her, and there he stayed. So there was only really Jack - - Oh, and then Jim come home from the West and my grandmother was elated - oh she was delighted, you know, after all these years. I had never seen him and, as I say, I must have been twelve. And he came home from the West and he lived there then. But he didn't work either.
It's a wonder how your grandmother managed.
Yes it is, but she did. She managed. We always seemed to have plenty to eat. The plainest of foods. And we were always alright. And she managed to clothe me and she made everything I wore. I think that's where I got my - oh, what'll I say?
Your ability?
Ability - yes - to dressmake, through her.
Did your mother or your grandmother do any sort of casual work? Like taking in sewing or washing?
No, nothing like that. So she must have had money left from the farm or from her husband who died at forty two, in the country - in Morchard. I don't know whether it was Orroroo or Morchard but Mum was born up there. And I don't think she remembered her father. I'm not sure.
Did you consider yourselves poor? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 7. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8.503
Well, I don't know. I always had a certain amount of pride. I wouldn't admit it, you know, never. Never admit to being poor or anything. Held my head up with the rest of them.
Of course you got to know your mother's mother very well, your gran - - -
Oh, Gran practically reared me. Yes. I loved Gran. She practically reared me. And I just forget the year that she died, but I was with her.
Yes, I think it was about 1916. Is that right?
That's right.
When I was reading the book. [MW's handwritten memoirs - see copy in file, 'Down Memory Lane']
That's right, could have been, yes.
How old was she when she died?
About seventy six. You see my Uncle Jim died a week before her, and when the doctor came to see her he said she had a great sorrow and she made up her mind she was going to follow him. I remember the doctor saying that. Dr Martin it was.
Do you think she was something of a father to you?
She was - - -. She was everything to me. She really was. And yet Mum and I were so close. Mum took me out with her and, as you read in the book, she used to go round to the dance - take me too.
What of other relatives from your mother's side? Was it a large family - cousins and the like?
Yes, she had a couple of cousins. One cousin and her husband kept a butcher's shop in Hanson Street and they used to very often come round to Daly Street and we'd go round there. Now who else? Then there was another cousin. Just how the connection is I can't remember. But we used to visit this other cousin. Her name was Nellie King - they lived down in Louisa Street. Then she married a chap named Frank Marshall and we still visited. But when her mother and father died she went off somewhere else to live and that, you know - - -. Then, as I say, I was out at Prospect then and I had my own interests - you know, teenagers - friends.
You said you had an uncle in Western Australia for a time. Did you have other relatives who you kept in touch with interstate?
No. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 8. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
What about overseas? Was there anyone in England or Ireland that you kept up with?
No. Not a relation. I did have a girlfriend that I worked with and she went back to England and we corresponded for a long time. But then she married and the correspondence got less and less.
What would have been the occasions when your whole family got together - all of the uncles and - - -?
Mostly death, I think. Somebody died and they'd all be there. But no weddings or birthdays or anything like that that I ever remember.
What about Christmas time?
No, Christmas came and went. We just had a Christmas dinner home and - I don't remember much about the Christmases. Just Christmas, and I had a doll and, you know, different things like that.
Do you remember a death in the family as you were growing up?
Yes. I remember my Grandma's brother, Uncle Jim Cummins. But he died at the Adelaide Hospital. But I didn't attend his funeral or - - -. And then as I say Uncle Jim died. I still didn't go to his funeral. I was too young, they said. They sort of seemed to keep me out of any sorrow or anything like that. They were really marvellous.
So you had contact with your grandmother's family. How many brothers and sisters did she have?
She only had one brother and a sister that died out here. That's the one that came from Ireland.
She died quite young?
Yes. I don't remember her. But I just used to hear Mum talk about Aunty Bridget that died.
What was your grandmother's full name?
Mary Ellen O'Brien. But it would have been Mary Ellen Cummins before she married.
And the family had come from Ireland when she was a girl?
Yes. She was only twelve when she came out here.
Did she used to tell you about the trip?
Oh, she said it took a long, long time to come. And, of course, as I say, she was only twelve and she didn't say much about it. There seemed to be always something else to be talking about, you know. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 9. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
What about her childhood. What business was her father in?
I don't know. I never heard anything about Ireland - only where they came from - and the long time that it took them to get here. But apart from that, they didn't say much about it.
Did she ever say why the family had come?
Well, her mother and father came, you see, so they had to come.
Did she know why her parents decided to come?
She didn't say. Perhaps they thought they'd have a better life here.
Have you ever wanted to know more about - - -?
Well, as I've grown older I'd give anything to know more about things like that. In fact my daughter, now she has been going into the Archives to see what she can delve up. But can't find much. And now she's been sick and hasn't been able so that's lapsed. So anyway, she might get to it again.
Yes.
But now I'm old and with thirty one great grandchildren I've got a lot to think about. (laughs)
That's right. Your large family though, does seem to have supported one another.
My family, yes.
Also when you were growing up.
Yes.
So you'd agree that large extended families are important?
I think they are. Yes. I was an only child, but I didn't have a lonely life because I had plenty of mates. But I had six children myself and my first son was born, as I say, at Queen Victoria on August the twelfth 1915. I was only married just over a year.
Yes. I'd like a little later on to talk about your children. First of all though, I'd like to talk about childhood and the time that you were growing up. Now, you were living in Daly Street until you were almost thirteen.
Yes.
So let's perhaps talk about that time, up until the move to Prospect first of all. Could you describe the house that you lived in in Daly Street?
Yes, it was a cottage on the corner of Ifould and Daly Street and there were two rooms in the front and then you walked into a sort of a kitchen and there ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 10. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
was another room off that. And then there was sort of a lean-to at the back where my Uncle Jack had his room. He made it comfortable for himself and of course Uncle Will only came down periodically and there was another bed in there for - - Oh, there were two beds in the one room off the kitchen as I say, and Mum and Gran and I had the front bedroom because they had to have a front room. They had this front room with some nice chairs and a cupboard in and ornaments on the top, you know. And it was a very com- fortable nice little home. And then it had a front verandah right on to the street - bricked - and a picket fence.
And did you have a bed to yourself at that time or were you sharing with your mother?
I was sharing with Mum.
And did your grandmother - - -?
My grandmother had a bed on her own. Yes.
What other furniture would have been in that room?
Well, down in the next room there were two single beds that my uncles had if they came home and Uncle Jack, as I say, had his out in the lean-to. And in the kitchen - we didn't have a kitchen dresser. We just had shelves built in and this ordinary safe. And no fridge there or ice-box or anything like that. We used - Gran used - - -. When the butter - she had butter - put in the basin. And the basin would be stood in a tin dish in the fireplace with another wet rag over it to keep it cool. And the milk the same. That's what we used to do - or she used to do. But I can remember all that quite plain.
What about for cooking? What sort of a stove did you have?
We had, I think they used to call it, a little oven. It was a funny looking little thing on four legs, something like -- I think it was a Dover stove, and it cooked on the top. Oh, they had bars across the top - cooked on the top. And a camp oven that you put coals all over the top of it, you know to bake bread in or whatever.
END OF TAPE 1 SIDE A: TAPE 1 SIDE B
So you would have been using both of these ovens at the same time for different purposes?
Well, when we had a roast we used to use the oven. Other than that we used to have iron saucepans on the two bars with the wood underneath - mallee wood. And then in the back yard we had - - -. It was all stones - big flags and all that sort of things. And one peach tree just by the tap in the back yard. And that was right across from the school. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 11. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Perhaps we could just talk a little bit more about the house. Was your Uncle Jack the only uncle who lived there permanently?
Yes.
Where did Uncle Fred, the footballer, live?
Well he lived there permanently too for quite a while.
So he was in one of the rooms inside?
Yes.
Did you have all your meals in the kitchen?
Yes.
Round a large table?
Yes.
Which room would you say was the most important one in the house?
Well I should think the kitchen would have been, because it was warm there with the fire going. And we had a mantelpiece over the top of the fireplace with paper cut with fancy patterns, you know, on it, and a tea caddy up on the top and, you know, things like that.
Did you have many other decorations in the house? What sort of things did you have on the wall?
Oh, very little. I can't remember anything on the kitchen wall at all, only calendars. In the front room we used to have - my uncles' photos were taken and enlargements hanging up. And on the cupboard we had ornaments and different things like that. I was a great one for going out picking nasturtiums and putting them in a - you know - I used to love to fix flowers and put them in.
Were there any fireplaces in the house?
No other, no.
Just in the kitchen?
That was the only fireplace we had.
So you had the stove. Did you have an open fireplace in the kitchen as well?
No. Just the stove and the bars across. See there were bricks either side that went up a bit and the bars up higher. We used to cook over the bars, as I remember.
You've mentioned the tap in the back yard. Did you have any water in the house? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 12. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8.503
No. Had to go outside for everything. And the washing was done outside too. And there were bricks and two bars again to boil the kerosene tins with the clothes in.
So you'd make a fire outside for heating the water for the washing?
Yes, that's right. And then you'd have a line right down the yard with a prop - a couple of props up.
What about bath time? How did you manage that?
Well we didn't really have a bath, only a tub - a large tub - and that was Saturdays you always had the wash. You had a weekly bath. You'd die now, but in those days that's what you did. And on Friday nights I always had my hair washed. No, I didn't. I mean I had it - olive oil put into my hair - and then Saturday morning that was washed. That was regular. The hair had to be washed. And I had hair. I had plaits down to my waist - they were a lovely golden colour. You won't think it now to look at it.
What was the olive oil for?
Well, they thought olive oil helped it grow. Olive oil. And it must have done because I had a marvellous head of hair.
And where would you have had the tub?
That was put in the back verandah somewhere. I just forget where the tub was. But when we went to Prospect we had a little bathroom with a cement bath in there. And I'm getting a little bit confused with the two. No, we had no bath. We only had the large tub. And I think we had about three tubs and a washboard that you scrubbed the clothes. But with the two houses, and I was so young, I'm just getting a little bit mixed up so you'll bear with me.
What else would you have had in the back yard? Did you have chooks?
Yes, I think we did have some chooks down in the back shed. And you had to go across down the yard to the toilet. That was built down the back yard too. And we had a side gate that you went in and out. We certainly had a front gate too.
Because you were on a corner?
We were on a corner, yes.
Was there any room in the back garden for growing anything?
No. Only a convolvulus creeper that came over the fence and that was rather pretty. I used to play a lot in the back yard and I was very frightened of ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 13. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8.503
feathers, and yet I had a black chook - a black - - -. She used to come and sit on my lap this hen. I'd made her a pet from a chicken. But I couldn't bear anybody to come at me with a feather, and yet I loved this hen. I don't know what - where she finished up. Probably in the pot.
Did you have any other pets?
Cat. There was a cat. Yes. Never a dog. Although I think when we lived at Goodwood we did have a dog called Cuddly, and that dog used to get on the train and come up to King William Street and get off and run to Daly Street. That dog knew where Mum lived - where Gran lived.
This was after you were married?
No, this was before I'd left Goodwood. So I must have been perhaps one or two when I left there. I must have been. Yes.
We've spoken a bit about the household and you've said that your mother and grandmother didn't have work outside the home.
That's right.
So they would have been spending their days with the housework and looking after the family.
Yes. And every Saturday night my gran would go down to the East End Market and shop and I'd go too. She used to have square bags, you know, with two handles, and she'd say, 'Now you get the market bags' and I'd get the bags and off we'd go. She'd go round and she'd buy the butter there, and she'd look around to see which was the cheapest or which was the best and, you know, they used to let you taste butter, and you'd buy it off that particular block and tea the same. You could buy tea - loose tea - and they'd weigh it out for you. And I can remember how we used to go to the market and buy every- thing. Come home - get home about 8 o'clock.
There would have been some things you didn't buy at the market. Did you have home deliveries of meat, for instance?
Well the butcher used to come around with a cart and you bought the meat. You went out to the back door and you'd buy the meat. And all the cats used to come from near and far. But - the butcher used to come and Gran would buy what she wanted and he'd close up the cart and off he'd go. The bread, I used to have to go down to the corner shop when I come home from school every night and get the bread.
What about milk? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 14. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Oh, there was a lady down the end of Ifould Street that had a cow and you'd take the billy and the penny and go down and get a pint of milk for a penny.
Did she have it in her back yard?
Yes. No, the cow was down in the South Parklands and her sons, or somebody, used to go and bring it in to be milked and take it back again.
We were talking about the sorts of animals you had before. Did you ever have caged birds in the home?
Yes, we had one Rosella 'Joey', I remember, yes. He used to whistle. He used to whistle all the bugle calls.
Where did he learn them?
Well, the military used to train, I think, down on the Parklands, and whether the bird picked it up from them or Frank taught him I don't know. But he'd whistle, you know, and my friend used to say 'He's whistling "pick 'em up, pick 'em up, hot potatoes", you know.
You've said that you had to get the bread and go and get the milk. What other chores did you have to do?
Well on Saturday mornings I always had to clean the knives. The knives were just the steel knives and there was a board and you bought, I think it was called - oh, it was knife polish - it was a browny looking powder and you sprinkle that on and - with a cork - and bring the knives up looking lovely. And then clean my own boots because I wore lace-up boots to school because they lasted longer than shoes. Oh I had a pair of - - -. My Uncle Will always kept me in shoes and when he come down he'd always buy me nice shoes and they were kept for Sunday to go to Mass. But that's what the chores I had. And then I was allowed to go and play when that was done.
So your Uncle Will helped out in that way.
Oh, he helped a lot, yes - Uncle Will. And Uncle Jack - as I say, he worked the electric light - they contributed towards the upkeep of the home of course.
What sort of lighting did you have in the house at Daly Street?
Kerosene lamp or candles. In fact I've still got one of the candlesticks now.
So you didn't have any light fixtures?
Oh no. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 15. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
You've told me a little bit about how you spent your Saturdays. Could we perhaps talk a bit more about that? You had your hair wash. Would that be first thing in the morning?
Yes, and when it dried I had two plaits again. Then I was allowed to go to play with my mates. I had two friends in Wakefield Street - that was just around the corner if you know the - - -. And one family kept a little shop there, right opposite the OBI [Our Boys' Institute] and I used to go round there and play. And then we'd organise concerts and we'd practice for weeks and have concerts on Saturday afternoons.
What sort of concerts?
Well, one play we did I can remember - 'Cinderella'. I was the wicked step- mother - of course they would have dumped that on me. And my friend Clare - Clara her name was - she loved talking about the lovely legs she had and all that, you know, so she was the Prince. And Dolly Candy, she was the - she was Cinderella. Then there were two sisters lived a couple of doors along and they were the two ugly sisters. Well we got down to tin tacks and we worked hard with this play, and it came that we were going to have the concert. Well, we had kerosene tins with planks across them in one back yard, and some of the lads helped us make up a stage and we had this concert. Charged a penny to come in and all the kids from around the place came and I don't know how much we had - we had about sixpence each I suppose when it was all done. We really enjoyed that - that concert. Those are the sort of things we used to do. And then another girl she had a bike. Well we got 'bikitis' then. Everybody wanted to ride a bike. Well, my uncles often used to give me a penny or, you know - and save up - and then at the end of the week, on Saturday, you had sixpence and you went to Bullock's Bike Shop in Pine Street and you hired a bike for sixpence an hour. So that's what we used to do.
Where would you ride?
Oh, we'd take it down where we lived and ride around near home and perhaps down towards the Parklands - because you weren't afraid to go anywhere in those days - and all around the place, round the block.
You also said that you'd go roller skating.
Oh yes, that was in the Exhibition Building. I was older then, quite a bit. That was after we'd left Daly Street and gone to Prospect. We'd go roller skating. I think you had to pay sixpence to go in - that was your skates too - and you'd stay in there for an hour or so. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 16. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
What about some of the other games that you played as a girl? Which ones do you remember?
I didn't play any particular games - no sport at all. In fact for years I was troubled with eye sight and I was going back and forth to the Adelaide Hospital with my eyes and all that sort of thing. So I didn't play - - I couldn't catch a ball - I couldn't now either, you know. I was never sport minded at all.
What was the problem with your eyes?
Well I was born with a very turned eye and blind in the right eye, and when I was twelve I had an operation that straightened my eyes but I still didn't get any sight. I've got sight there. Had it been this day and age they might have been able to do something, but not - - -. Well, I was about twelve then, because I was going to the Adelaide Hospital at the Outpatients.
What were they doing for you there when you went each time?
Well, I used to have drops and go each time and see how I had improved. And finally they took me in for the operation and then I went until that healed. Then they gave me glasses. I went on all right from then on.
For how long were you going to the Adelaide Hospital?
I suppose it must have been twelve months, including the operation.
And was it once a week?
Yes.
Would you miss the day at school then?
I'd go when I came home from the hospital - recess time or lunch time, what- ever time I got back. They knew at the school that I was going to the hospital.
What was Outpatients like?
Oh, dear. You were like a lot of sheep in a pen. You'd just go into this Out- patients - that was on Fro me Road - and of course there's a different building there now, that's all gone. You'd sit on these hard seats for hour on hour and then you'd walk down between two rails and the doctor would be up at the end of the rail with about half a dozen students around him and then he'd talk about you with your eye, whatever it was, and you'd stand. And then you'd get a piece of paper and you'd have to go to the dispensary to get this - the drops. And you had to wait there another hour or two, and then you could go home. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 17. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Would you go there alone?
After a while I did. When I got used to going I used to go alone.
And you'd walk down there I suppose?
Oh yes. Walk - you walked everywhere! The only time I rode anywhere was when I had a ride on the sixpenny bike. (laughs) Oh yes, walk.
You have written about the sister of a friend of yours who was an actress.
Oh yes, Marie Eaton. She used to play principal boy in all the pantomimes.
Did you ever go to see her?
Oh yes. We used to save up and go. We'd sit out there ever so long on the steps of the gallery to get a good seat, and then you'd climb up - this was at the Theatre Royal in Hindley Street. Of course that's gone now. And we used to go there and see the pantomimes.
That was while you were still living at Daly Street?
Yes, that was then.
You'd go to the matinee session I suppose?
Yes, always the matinee.
Would you mother go with you?
Oh no, the girls - the children - we went together. We were allowed to go. Yes, we were allowed to go and that was in Daly Street days too.
Was there any part of Adelaide that you weren't allowed to go to? Was Hindley Street - - -?
Hindley Street was just Hindley Street. No. In fact, my father's parents lived at Hindley Street. That's just come to my memory now. And I visited them down in Hindley Street - it was a very respectable street.
What stage would that have been when you were visiting your father's parents?
I don't know. I suppose - - Oh, it would have been in my school days I suppose. But then they went away from there and went to Melbourne. I don't remember them leaving there.
Would you have visited them alone or with your mother?
Oh no, with Mum.
She was still in contact? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 18. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Yes, she was then. I can remember when I was older, I said to her once, 'Why don't you get in touch with the Red Cross and see what happened - see if there's any gratuity for you?'. I said, 'If you don't, I will'. And she said, 'Look he denied me'. She said 'I tried years ago and he denied - he said he was a single man. He enlisted as a single man', she said. So that was that. So I never said any more about it. But I often think I should have done. But then when you've got a family and, you know - -
The break was fairly severe.
Yes. It was a definite break.
Of course your Uncle Fred played football. Did you go to watch him play?
Yes, every Saturday afternoon. One football season Mum had a season ticket and we used to go, the pair of us.
How many years was he playing, do you remember?
Well I can remember he played five years without a break, and he got a beautiful big certificate and a gold medal for the best all round player for five years. Because we had the certificate hanging at home. Of course when he married he took it, which you couldn't blame him.
So you would have seen Adelaide Oval.
Oh, I know Adelaide Oval like the back of my hand. In fact, since we've lived here I've gone to football, because I've got a grandson - Lindsay Backman - who played for South and he was their captain too.
Did you go to the other grounds?
Yes. Since I've been married, yes.
When you were a girl or just to Adelaide Oval?
Oh, no only Adelaide when I was a child with Mum. No, I never went any- where else. But we went to the Jubilee Oval. That was behind the Exhibition Building. There was an oval there.
What would you have seen there?
The same - football. They played football at the Jubilee or the Adelaide. But it's so very, very different. Of course the Exhibition's gone and the University and all that's built on - where the Jubilee Oval was.
Did you go to the Show when it was at the Exhibition Oval and grounds?
Yes, the Show. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 19. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Did you go there every year?
I think, yes.
What sort of things did you like at the Show?
Oh, the animals I liked, and the flowers. I couldn't bear the horse jumping because I was afraid the horse would fall. And yet I have a son now in the Mounted Police - that used to ride. But I could never bear to see him - when he'd get to the hurdle I'd turn my back.
We talked about all sorts of things that you did on Saturday, and you said that shopping was the thing on Saturday night at the Central Market.
East End Market. The Central Market was too far to walk for Gran. And of course we used to go down through what they'd call the National Hotel grounds and all that, quite easily, down to the East End Market.
What about after shopping?
We'd come home after shopping and one of my uncles - - -. Sometimes Uncle Will would be home - you know, come home for a few days from where he was working on the Line - and they'd take - - -. We had a bottle - I think it must have come out of a hospital. It was a blue bottle, fairly large, and they used to call it the 'bluey'. They'd take - - -. They'd go down with the bluey to the National Hotel and get it filled up with beer for a shilling, come home and the table would be set and the other uncles - Uncle Charlie used to come and his wife. And he had a friend in the cake store - like the Central Market - and he would come down with the bits that were left over in a bag. Only bring the cake. And they'd sit down and they'd have a real supper Saturday nights. That didn't happen every Saturday night. It was only when the uncles were there. And, you know, I used to be allowed to stay up and I had a little glass of my own, but that had lemonade in it. Even now I can't stand drink. I don't like it.
Was there other drinking in the house?
No.
Would your uncles who were living with you, drink during the week?
My Uncle Jim did. If he had any money he would. But my Gran would never give him money for drink. She'd buy his tobacco and everything but she wouldn't give him any money to drink. But we hadn't got the money to waste on drink she said. They just had this 'blow out' on the Saturday night once in a while. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 20. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
What about Sunday? What would the routine be on Sunday?
Sunday. You'd get up early on Sunday morning. Your hair'd be brushed out and you'd get ready and you'd put on your best Sunday clothes. Up at the St Francis Xavier's Cathedral for 9 o'clock Mass. And I used to - - All the children sat one side, you know, and we'd sing - the kids - and then we we'd get home all the clothes would be taken off and put away and, you know, your everyday clothes put on. And then we'd have a hot roast dinner with a plum pudding. That was - - -. It wouldn't be Sunday without. They'd take it in turns to go to Mass. Gran would go real early - 7 o'clock - so she'd be home to cook the dinner. I'd go with my mates around the corner. Mum would go to perhaps 10 o'clock or - but we kids used to go on our own. We'd go home, as I say, and change our clothes. And after dinner the dishes were done and Mum's cousins used to come across and we'd all go down to the gardens. And there used to be crowds in the gardens.
The Botanical Gardens?
Botanical Gardens. The Salvation Army used to play down there. They had a marvellous band and there'd be other politicians in different parts of the Botanic Park. I used to love the Army, you know, the band and the singing. I used to love music and I used to love to sing, and, as I say, Mum used to play the accordion and I used to sing everything. At night with her very often. We used to go in the back bedroom, where I told you the men used to sleep, and she'd play the accordion and I'd sing and I loved that, I really did. That was Sundays. Then we'd come home and have tea and then we'd just stay and read or do anything about the place. Of course I had homework I suppose, and was going to school.
END OF TAPE 1 SIDE B: TAPE 2 SIDE A
Well, we've talked a little bit about the family outings to the Botanical Gardens and the like. What about day outings where you'd go away from the house?
I don't think I ever went away from the house.
Did you go down to the beach?
Oh yes. The Glenelg train used to run down King William Street and we used to go to the beach. Very often through the week, when it was very hot, when I'd come home from school Gran used to have a basket packed and we'd go down to Glenelg and have our tea down there. Have an old nightgown to go in the water.
Did you not have a bathing costume? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 21. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
No. Not then I didn't. Sometimes I used to have a pair of - drawers, they call them, with a frill around, you know - and go in with the drawers on and perhaps a little petticoat or something like that. But the men weren't allowed in the same side as the ladies. No mixed bathing. They were one side of the jetty and we were the other.
And your uncles would go down with you?
They'd come down later on when they knocked off work. I used to love that. Your food tasted different somehow. Whether it was a picnic or not, but you know, it was really enjoyable. And it was only threepence return for me on the train. Then as I got a bit older, some Saturday afternoons with Clara and Dolly, the three of us used to go. But we had to be home for tea. We were home by half past five.
Did you ever go up into the hills on family outings? What about to the National Park?
Not while I was that young. I was well in my teens when I was allowed to go. We used to go in what they called - they used to call it a drag. It was a horse drawn vehicle and it took you - - I don't know, you wouldn't be in the hills long before it's time to come back again because it took so long to go. Oh, and then I went in the train once or twice. And we used to go over the viaduct and into a tunnel and the kids used to be screaming, you know. I suppose I screamed too - (laughs) in this dark tunnel. We'd often go to Bridgewater and have a picnic and then come home again in the train.
This was when you were older?
Yes, I was older then. I suppose I was still in Daly Street. See, I was nearly thirteen when Gran sold the house and we went to Prospect. Because I only - I was only in Prospect about a month when I left school and I went to work.
What about the sorts of social activities you had at home? Did you have people in to, say, play cards, at night?
No. Not in Daly Street. When we went to Prospect, after a while, there was a family came and lived two doors away - - -. Can I go on?
Yes.
This family came - their name was Carter - and they had one son. Oh, he was quite a bit younger than - I was thirteen. He must have been seven. And he went to the Catholic school across the street from us - as I say, in Boyle Street. The mother had tuberculosis. We used to see her sitting out in the front a lot. Well I used to go up and talk to her and then my gran came - she ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 22. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
started to talk. Well, finally the family got very friendly with us and my gran loved a game of euchre. Sometimes they'd come into our place or we'd go to her place, and they'd play euchre. So Mr Carter - - -. They said they would play for something. They had to have something. And he said, 'Well, we'll play and see who wins Bridget' - me. Anyway, he and Mum, strange as it may seem, they got the eleven points or whatever, and he said, 'Now, I'm your father. I'll warm your calico' - you know, just as a joke. So we all laughed about this. Anyway, they moved from there to a few streets over and one day the little feller, Herbie, came across the paddocks - there were no houses - across the paddocks to where we lived and said Mum had died. Well, we knew she was very sick at this time. We used to just go and visit occasionally. I was not allowed to go so much. Anyway she died and they took her to Gawler and she was buried in Willaston Cemetery. Well, we didn't see them for a long time - we didn't see Herb or his father for a long, long time. And then they came back to Adelaide and the little fellow, he stayed with us for a while and the father went to work. But he was in a boarding house in Morphett Street - I think it was Morphett Street - and then he used to take Mum and me and Herb to the Theatre Royal. Then he went away again and - - -. They went back to Gawler I think because all his wife's relations were there. So anyway, finally, they came back again and he finished up being my stepfather. So, he 'warmed my calico'. That was years after. I think it was about 1916 Mum married him. Well he was the best man in the world. I had a marvellous father and a marvellous brother and I used to boast that I had a brother, you see - and I had a father! Well, so then of course Mum left home and she went to live on West Terrace. When I was living with my in-laws - I was married at this time - I think I'm getting a bit - -
No, we'll go back.
Will we? Anyway I was living there on Prospect because my mother-in-law - she was a widow - and she went away to work and I held the fort while she was away, helped look after the family that was there. I've always been looking after kids. So, well that was that. So he turned out to be my step- father.
It seems to me that, I know these days people point to a lot of broken families and unsettled families, but from what you've been telling me there always have been.
Oh yes. But you didn't hear too much of it then. I can remember there was a family lived in If ould Street, and many nights that woman would come up into our place with her daughter - she was an only child, this girl, her name was May Carmody - and Mrs Carmody used to come. Her husband used to come ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 23. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
home and belt the daylights out of her. And to get away she used to come and live in - stay in our place till he'd gone to sleep.
This was when you were at Daly Street?
Yes. I remember that. And I used to feel that sorry for this poor little woman. Then I used to think, 'Well I haven't got a father that would do that to me. Look what May's going through'.
So, perhaps as you say, it's just that it's talked about more openly now.
It is now. And it's easy now. It wasn't easy to be divorced or anything. In fact it was a scandalous thing.
Did your parents ever formally divorce?
No.
So your mother waited until he had died.
Yes. Although I often heard it said that once they had deserted you for seven years you were free to to marry. Whether there was any truth in that I don't know. But he had died before she married.
You've mentioned that your uncles were able to drink beer in the house, and your grandmother liked cards. Were there any restrictions on behaviour in the house?
There was no need. No, no restrictions at all.
Did your uncles smoke in the house?
Yes, pipes usually. Well this Uncle Jim, when he run out of tobacco, he used to pinch the tea and smoke. He was a bit of a devil. (laughs) Then she used to hide that from him. My grandmother, she was a lovely woman, but she was head of the house and you did what you were told.
Would she have been perhaps more responsible for your discipline and upbringing than your mother?
I think so. Yes. Although I loved my mother and for the last thirty years of her life I had her with me. And before her I had them both - Dad too. Because Dad had a cancer in the lung. He was a heavy smoker - cigarettes - and it got that way that Mum couldn't look after him. I didn't live here. I lived on Portrush Road - a much larger house - and my family were going away, married, you know. So they come out with me. He died there and Mum said, 'What have I got now?'. I said 'You've still got me', and she stayed on with me with my family, and she died here. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 24. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
So you've always had different generations of the family around. What about your family's attitude to swearing?
Mine here?
When you were growing up - your Gran?
Oh, I never heard any.
You uncles didn't swear?
No, they didn't swear. I can't remember them - - I just can't remember any swear words in our house. They could have, but I don't know, I don't remember. If I heard it it's blotted out. I can't remember anything about that.
You were saying earlier that on a Sunday evening you might read. Did you have many books in the house?
Yes. Gran used to buy what they called the Family Journal, but of course there was pages in that for children that I had. And I used to like the Children's Hour that we got at school, and read that. Or story books - children's books. What was that book I had called The Chatterbox or some- thing like that? A big thick book. Oh, and Cole's Book. It had puzzles and I used to love that. And I liked comics too. Anything that I could laugh at I loved. (laughs)
Did the family take newspapers daily?
Yes, took the Advertiser. Oh yes, that was a penny.
You've said that your mother played the accordion. Did you have other musical instruments in the house?
Yes. We had two accordions. When Uncle Jim came from Western Australia he brought two violins and he used to play all the old Irish jigs and waltzes. And I thought, 'I might be able to play that'. I did. I played the violin, you know. And there was a man lived down the end of the street, his name was Cordudy, and he had a son called Ray, and he used to teach Ray the violin. He heard me one night and came in and asked Mum, could I come down there and he would teach me with Ray. Oh yes, she can go - it was only a few houses down. Down I went. I could not understand a thing about the notes or anything. But he'd play something, and Ray'd be there struggling - well I'd play it. All by ear. I never knew a note of music. So that was the end of that - I was no use to him. (laugh)
Did you continue playing? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 25. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
I used to play the violin, yes. I couldn't play it then when I got married, you know, because my - - -. And now I don't know what happened to it. I'm not sure where it went.
What happened to your finger?
When my daughter was eight months old I was cleaning the brass on the top of a fender around a fireplace, and there was a knob on it and I hit my finger and it formed a whitlow. [shows injured finger] Do you know what a whitlow was?
No.
In other words a gathered finger, you know, all festered up and - - -. And now antibiotics would clear that up, but I was about eight weeks and then they took - the doctor took the bone out of the first joint. So that's what happened.
And no more violin.
No more violin.
Of course singing was very important to you.
Oh it was. I'd have given anything to be allowed to learn to sing. When I was working - when I was on the machines in D. & W. Murray's - we used to often sing. There was our forelady, Miss Smith.* She said to me, 'Look', she said, 'we're having a concert on - - -', some date I forget, 'down in St John's Hall in Halifax Street. Do you think you could come and sing for me?"Oh'. And then there was a girl on the bench who played the piano and her sister sang a bit. So we formed it and I used to go out singing at different concerts. Yes. And then, of course, when I got this wretched goitre, I didn't speak for a fortnight - above a whisper. Then my voice gradually came back but I couldn't sing.
What age was that?
When do you mean, when I was - - -?
When you got the goitre?
Oh, that was in about 1942. That's right.
You said you would have liked to have learned to sing. Was it that the family couldn't afford lessons?
No, they couldn't afford it. And they weren't interested really. I could sing all right, that was all right. When I was going to St Joseph's School in Pine ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 26. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Street, that's all they had me for. I was always up singing in the concerts and all this. And Gran said, 'That's no good. She wants education'. Back again to Flinders Street I went.
Yes, I'd like to talk about your school days in a few minutes. You've said that you didn't get away from the house much for days away. What about holidays? Did you go away for holidays?
No. That was unheard of. Didn't go away anywhere for holidays. Just played around the place on holidays.
What was the occasion when you went up to visit one of your uncles in the country?
Oh, that's right. Well, we still lived in Daly Street then. I must have been ten - nine or ten. He was on a farm at Blythe working. So he had to have a housekeeper, so Gran decided Mum should go and take me. So away we went up to Blythe. Oh, it was lovely up there - I loved it up there. The owners of the farm, they had young children and I used to go over there with them, and more singing. And they were Methodist people and they used to sing all the hymns around the organ. [door bell]
We were talking about the time that you went up to your uncle's.
Yes, we went up to Blythe and we stayed up there for two months. And I had a good time up there - I loved it. But my uncle got very sick - Uncle Joe that was - and he had to go into the Clare Hospital. Well there was nothing left for us to do but to come home, and of course, then as soon as he got well he came down home and he was all right. But that was the only holiday I ever remember having.
Was that, then, during school holidays? Or were you planning to stay up there?
No, we weren't planning to stay. We were only going for a time. But I went - - -. No it couldn't have been the school holidays because I went to school - - -. One of these people - these Williamses - was a school teacher, and they took me over there to their school. Yes, in the town of Blythe. Oh, we used to get up and go to church - into Clare - on Sunday mornings, drived in and back again. That was eight miles I think to the church.
Would that be horse drawn - - -?
Yes, horse drawn - trap they called it.
You were saying that Christmas wasn't a big celebration in your house. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 27. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
No. We just had a stocking, and I had a doll that I was very fond of. Christened her Dorothea, of all things. That's the only thing that I ever remember that I treasured, was this doll.
I suppose with your religious observance, that Easter would have been an important time?
Yes, that's right.
Was religion important to you as you were growing up?
Oh, when I went to school it was - when I went to the Sisters' school. Because if you stayed away from Mass you were a real heathen. (laughter) But, no, I don't know, I just was a good girl. That's all that mattered to me. Then when I got married, of course, religion and me fell out. I live as good a life as I can and I wouldn't do anybody a bad turn if I couldn't do 'em a good one, so that's me.
Did you have to leave the church when you married?
No, I don't know, I didn't ask them - I just left.
Your husband wasn't Catholic?
No, Church of England. So what's the difference?
We'll talk about your marriage in a little while. One of the things I was interested in as I was reading through the notes that you'd written, is that your Gran took Election Day quite seriously.
Yes, she did. And the cab used to come, with two horses, and I suppose I was taking up somebody's seat but I used to always go because the ride in the cab was a blow out. We'd go up to the Town Hall and she'd go and vote and we'd come back in the cab again. I used to love Election Day. And very often it fell on my birthday, and I used to love to go.
Would these have been State Elections or Council Elections?
Oh, I suppose it would have been both. But I know she used to go to the Council Elections because she owned the house.
That would have been a public cab?
Oh yes.
So you didn't often take public transport?
No. Sometimes I'd go with Uncle Charlie's wife out to Kensington to see her in-laws and we'd go on the tram. Oh, and I thought that was lovely - a ride in the tram. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 28. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
So there wouldn't have been members of your family who had a car, I suppose?
Oh, no. They didn't even have a bike. (laughs) No. No, we didn't own any- thing like that at all.
No one with horses?
No.
Only 'Shank's pony'.
That's right. We walked everywhere.
Well, you've told me about your two best friends. You said one of their father's was a shopkeeper. Which one was that?
That was Dolly Candy. They had the little grocer's shop.
And you other particular friend was - - -?
Clara. She used to live two doors from the shop. Now, getting back to Clara, her elder sister was a music teacher. I didn't think at the time, and for years after, when I used to go to school - the Sisters' School and I was singing - she'd always see that I was put in the back row, this particular one, because she used to play. And then, one night at her place, somebody asked me would I sing and I was going to sing 'Bonny Mary of Argyle'. Of course that sounds silly now, but it was good then. And as I stood up she played it too fast. Then she jammed her fingers down on the piano and said, 'Oh, you're not good at all', and walked out and left me. And she gave me an inferiority complex that woman. My mate, she was always put in everything - in the front row - and she'd dance in the concerts and all that. But poor me, my Gran couldn't even afford the costumes so they needn't have worried - I never got into the concerts. But anyway, I saw her afterwards. Now, I might have done better had she left me alone. You know how you think things when you're older?
Did it upset you that you couldn't afford the costumes and the like?
Oh, yes it did. I would have loved to have been in the concert. Sometimes I couldn't even get the sixpence to get the ticket to go. See, as I say, Gran didn't have any surplus money. We lived all right - we were not hungry - but we hadn't any luxuries, if you know what I mean.
Did you belong to any social organisations when you were a girl?
No.
Did you have Guides, or anything?
No, nothing like that, no. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 29. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
What about church groups?
No.
Was there Sunday School at your church?
No, I never went to Sunday School. There was, but I never went. I used to go to the Gardens. No, I never went to Sunday School.
Was there any choir attached to the church for children?
Well, it was only when the children sang at Mass.
Let's talk about your time at school. You said you started when you were six years old. Which was the first school that you went to?
Flinders Street.
Was that a public school?
Yes, they called it Flinders Street Model School. I don't know what the 'Model' was, but that's what it was called. I went there, and my Mum took me to school on the first day, and we interviewed the Headmistress. I can remember standing up beside - - -. Mum was sitting on a chair and this Headmistress at the table. And she had a black shiny dress on and a watch hanging on her breast. I can see that now too. And her hair done with a roll around it. And I was so frightened of that woman. Her name was Miss Cooney and she reminded me of a big black Orpington fowl - rooster! Really, she did. And she was the head infant mistress. Well anyway, I started school, and I was happy at school. I had a nice teacher by the name of Miss Waters and I liked her very much. Then Gran, being such a good Catholic, thought it was time I left there and went and done the right thing.
Why do you think you went to a public school first of all?
I don't know. I could never figure that out. But anyway I went to the public school, and then I went off to St Joseph's. As I tell you, it was concerts and singing and once we had a competition - and that was held in the Town Hall - and I was picked to sing too. So I went to that and that got off all right. That was lovely. I thought I was Christmas. The same woman, one of the sisters - - -. My friend had four sisters, and they were all old maids - none of them had a boyfriend or anything - and after the concert was over she said to me, 'All we could see about you was your pants showing under your dress'. I said - - -. So I didn't say anything. I'd never answer back. I just ignored it - me pants showing! You know, that's what the - - -. They sort of belittled me, but of course, as a kid I didn't see it then. So anyway that was that - I went to that. Then Gran - - ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 30. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
END OF TAPE 2 SIDE B: TAPE 2 SIDE B
Just before we go on, how long were you first at Flinders Street?
I just don't remember. A couple of years perhaps.
And then how long at St Joseph's?
I wasn't there long either. It might have been a year or - - -. But I wasn't learning a thing. So I go back to Flinders Street then. Well by that time I was in first or second class. You see there were no grades, it was first, second, till you got to sixth class.
You would have been thirteen when you got to sixth class would you?
I never got to sixth class.
What were the grades called from the beginning?
Class.
So when you were six years old was that?
I was six when I started. I was in the infants. Well in the meantime, then I went to St Joseph's. Perhaps I might have been only six months there - I just can't remember. And then I went back to Flinders Street, but I was out of the infants. It might have been the first class I was in. I forget. I had a teacher then by the name of Miss Nicholls and she was an old horror. Then I went from bad to worse. The next class I had another one with a face like a withered apple. She was Miss Raegar and she was another devil.
Why didn't you like them?
Because they were horrible women. They sort of yelled at you and roared at you and gave you a clout if things weren't right. And you'd get a crack on the knuckle with the ruler. Nobody liked these two.
So that sort of corporal punishment was common?
Oh yes. And then you got sent up to the Head, but I never got that far. But we had a nice singing teacher there called Mr Snell and he was lovely and we used to sing some beautiful songs there. Then on the Queen's Birthday - well, Queen Victoria had died then - but we still used to march up to the Queen's statue on the twenty fourth - on Empire Day they called it - and sing 'God Save the Queen' or 'King' or - -
Which month was that? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 31. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
That was May, twenty fourth. We used to march up there and then we had a half holiday to celebrate their birthdays. See, when she died, the statue was all draped up in purple and black.
Do you remember that?
Yes. And we used to go up to Victoria Square, you know, where the Queen's statue was, and have a look at it. Then when the King - King Edward the Seventh - was crowned, the town was all little fairy lights, right down the Post Office spire and everywhere. We used to go up and sit in Victoria Square and watch the lights and crowds and all that sort of thing.
What do you remember of the lessons at school?
What I remember mostly - when you went in the morning you got ten words to write out. Every one you got wrong you wrote out ten times. It hasn't made any difference to me - I still can't spell. (laughs) Then you'd get four or five sums of arithmetic, which I nearly always got wrong. I might have fluked a couple right. But I was never a good scholar. Didn't seem to be in me to learn. But I did my best. I wasn't bad at writing and composition I liked. Then we had transcription and as sure as eggs I'd get a blot. Get called over the - 'I must not make blots'. You was always getting impositions for things you did - a hundred words here, a hundred lines there, you know. And in the mornings when you marched, you had to stand like soldiers when the whistle went. Daren't one of you move a foot. Well then you walked - marched, quick march - you walked into your class lines and gradually the drum played and the kids with the fifes, and you marched into school into your different rooms. And you daren't sit down till she came and told you to. And then it was 'Good morning Miss - - -', whichever teacher it was.
Did you attend every day? Were there reasons - you've mentioned you had to go to the hospital. Were there other occasions when you would stay away from school?
Not unnecessarily. One time I had styes on both eyes and I wasn't allowed to go to school. But apart from that - or measles, and things like that - but no I loved school, I liked to go.
Were there any occasions when you were kept home to help at home?
No. I didn't even have to wipe a dish. No, only clean the knives and my boots. That was the only chores that I had.
So you didn't have to do housework?
No. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 32. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Or washing?
No. Sometimes I'd wipe up if Mum called me to do it, if she was doing some- thing else. But, no, I didn't do anything much. I suppose I was spoilt, I'm sure.
Do you remember the sorts of games you played in the play ground at school?
Skipping, hop scotch. Then you got into a row for making marks on the asphalt, so that was ruled out. And we used to play - oh, what was it? A row of you stood with your hands out and a row over there and one went, and you touched somebody's hands and if they raced you over they were the leader sort of thing - 'tiggy touch wood' or something, it was called. I forget that. Yes, we used to play a lot of games like that.
Did the Flinders Street School have a large area to play in?
Yes, lovely.
Was it all asphalt?
Yes, all asphalt and nice sheds for you to sit in to have your lunch. The boys in one yard and the girls in the other. Needless to say the boys would be up on the fence looking over talking to the girls.
What sort of a fence was it?
Galvanised iron. Around the school. It's still there, the same old brick school. Do you know where it is?
Yes.
Yes, well that's where I spent my early days - all down around that. And the corner shop is where I used to have to go to get the bread. Years later when they had a 'back to school' I went back to the school and I went to have a look at my old home and it was pulled. I nearly cried.
In Daly Street?
Yes. It was gone.
You've already told me about the singing and the concerts. There was one, of course, one big concert you were in - the Thousand Voice Choir.
Yes, that's right.
That was from all schools was it?
Yes, that was from Flinders Street and - - -. There was a thousand kids. What do they call it now? They have it at the Festival Theatre but it's not called a Thousand Voices. It's something similar. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 33. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Where was that held?
That was in the Exhibition in North Terrace.
Did you have to have special costuming for that.
Just a white dress I think, and a blue sash.
When you went to St Joseph's, did you have a school uniform?
No.
Would your Gran have had to pay fees, do you think?
Sixpence a week.
Do you think that was one of the reason you left there?
I wouldn't have been surprised but she said I didn't learn anything there. See it wasn't Mum that took me away. It was Gran.
So she had that sort of authority?
Yes, she did. She had a lot of authority over me.
You've said that after school you had messages to run, for the bread and the milk and so on. What did you do after you'd done your messages?
By this time it was getting dusk. We used to have tea just after 5. Always an early tea. The men'd get in about 5 o'clock and we'd have tea and then I was allowed out in the front. They used to say, 'You can go in front'. Then there were some other children lived nearby in Ifould Street. In fact one girl, her father was a Mauritian - she was black - but a nice girl. And she and 'Silly James' who owned a billy goat - and he used to chase the kids with this billy goat on a - - -. And he had a little cart. Well, we used to sit around and wait for the lamp lighter. He'd come on his three wheeled bike with a long pole and a hook on the end, and pull the light on. We'd sit there and 9 o'clock everybody'd go home - had to be in 9 o'clock and go to bed.
Did you play games?
No, only tell stories. And the games we played - we used to call it 'first and last letters'. We'd have a little book and we'd have the name of all the hotels in Adelaide, or all the streets of Adelaide, and we'd say to one another - now the Earl of Zetland was one hotel I can remember - 'Z D' and they'd all be guessing. You couldn't guess, and the one that - 'oh, the Earl of Zetland' - well it was their turn to ask you. And we got a lot of fun out of that - and the name of the streets.
So you left school when you turned 13. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 34. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Yes.
So that would have been 19 - - -? What year would that have been?
1912, would it?
1907.
Well we'd only just gone to Prospect to live then.
Do you know why your Gran decided to move to Prospect?
No, haven't the least idea. Perhaps the house was getting beyond her repair. I don't know. She never gave any - - -. And it nearly broke my heart having to leave there to go to Prospect, because all my mates were around there. So we went out to Prospect to live. And then I came for one month to school on the tram. I used to walk from Boyle Street down to the Caledonian Hotel and then catch the electric tram. The other one was the horse tram, came that far. And I'd get on the electric tram and it was two and six a month for my ticket. Then I'd get off at the Post Office and walk straight down Flinders Street to school. I only did that for a month. And the next thing, I was taken into town by my mother to interview for a position at D. & W. Murray's in James Place.
Just before we go on to talk about your work, did you want to stay longer at school do you think?
I would have liked to. Yes, I would have liked to have stayed longer.
Did you ever manage to continue any sort of education?
No, not afterwards, no.
Do you think your time at school was worthwhile?
Well, I only said a little while ago, 'I don't know what I went for'. See every- thing's change to metric and all this sort of thing. I didn't learn a great deal at school.
At the time, do you think it helped you in your early life?
Oh, I suppose it did.
In the work you did?
Yes. I didn't do any clerical work or anything like that - never. I wouldn't have been a scrap of good in an office. Not a scrap. I went to D. & W. Murray's - are you up to that yet? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 35. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Yes. Let's just first of all, just very briefly, talk about the house at Prospect. Could you describe that house?
Yes. That was a single fronted house with a right of way down either side. It had a lawn in the front and a front room, two bedrooms and quite a large kitchen. What went after that? And then a fairly big back verandah.
You said you had an indoor - was it an indoor bathroom?
Oh yes, the bathroom. It was off the back verandah - at the end of the back verandah. But the toilet - now where the dickens was the toilet? That was out in the yard still, I just can't place where.
Did you have water in the house?
No.
So still a tap in the back yard.
There was a tap in the bathroom, but to get hot water for that you had to fill your copper and carry it in with a bucket - the bath. And that was a sort of cement bath. Mum gave it a good clean when we got there and we were able to have a bath.
So it was still carrying water for whatever you needed?
Yes, it was carrying water, that's right. You carried the water.
Did you have light fixtures or lamps?
No, we had electric light. Yes. And it was something to go and be able to switch it on. Yes, we had electric light. I've still got one of the lamps in my bedroom, that we had.
We'll have a look at that after.
Yes. I've still got a lamp.
You would have still used lamps I suppose a little at Prospect?
I don't remember whether we did.
Going outside or - - -?
Oh, we used to always take a candle.
Did you have fireplaces, or how was the house heated?
Yes we did have fireplaces. I can't visualise that place as much as I can Daly Street.
I suppose working, you were out and about a lot more than at Daly Street. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 36. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Yes.
Let's just talk about the household there. Who was living with you when you went to Boyle Street?
Uncle Jim was still with us, and Uncle Jack. Uncle Jack was always there. But Uncle Will, he was still away. And that was all that was there - and Mum and me.
Did your mother and gran and you still share a room?
No. Mum had her own room and I had - - -. Gran had a double bed and I had a single bed in the same room. But Mum had a bedroom on her own. We had a long passage right through. The passage went right down into the kitchen.
Was that in the middle or at one side?
One side - it was a single fronted house.
You'd have had a bigger yard, would you?
Oh yes, we had a big yard. And down at the bottom we had some chooks. Yes we had a big yard, and we used to grow vegetables and we had a big fig tree in that yard. Then I got friendly with a girl next door - her name was Janie - and I can remember teaching her to dance on the shop verandah outside. Then we used to take her to the dance with us.
Your mother was keen on dancing was she?
Yes, but Mum didn't go at this stage. She didn't go so much. She was getting a bit old she thought. But I used to go and that's where I met my husband, at the dance.
Let's talk about your working life. You would have known that you'd have to go to work.
Oh yes.
Did you have a particular ambition to do some sort of work or another?
Yes, I wanted to be a milliner. Because I used to make dolls' hats out of the wire that came off bottles, and cover them. And I wanted to be a milliner. But I finished up at D. & W. Murray's sewing on hooks and buttons, which bored me stiff, but I was getting four shillings a week. And of course two and six of that was tram fare - if I didn't walk, but Mum thought it was too much for me to walk all the way from Prospect right into James Place.
Had you tried for work in the local area? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 37. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
There was nothing like that about. No. I hadn't. I was just taken to - - -. And I got the job.
Do you remember the interview?
Yes, I do. The man was a Russian Jew - very nice looking man - and spoke broken English, but he was very nice looking and very nice the interview was. And anyway I had to start work Monday.
You finished school early December 1907 when you'd just turned thirteen.
Well I think it must have been after the Christmas holidays that I started the work.
So you were very young?
Yes I was. Very young. Then I got promoted on to the machines.
Let's talk about the first work that you did. It was with D. & W. Murray, and that was in James Place. What size building was it?
Well, it was a - - -. I don't know whether it's still there or not. I haven't been down James Place for years. But as you walked in you walked straight up the stairs to the workroom - fairly big workroom. There were white workers and blouse machinists, as I remember. And of course, finishers and pressers. I got promoted from the finishing table to the machines and I made white aprons.
What was the finished product sold as?
Oh, the nurses' aprons - I don't know. See once we made them that was it. They went straight from the machine to the presser or the finisher and they'd cut off any ends and things like that.
And all these different workers and stages were in the same workroom? How many people working in the room would you say?
Oh, I don't suppose there would have been more than 30 or 40 in that par- ticular - - -.
Were they all women?
Yes. I don't think there were any men there, only the manager.
And that was the man who interviewed you?
Yes. And do you know - - -. I'm jumping from one thing to another, but this has just come to my mind. I met a lady at Joslin where I go, and she worked at the same place under the same man. But she's not quite as old as me and I think I'd left there before she started. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 38. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
So you started on the finishing table. How many other women were there working with you on that?
Only a couple.
What specifically was the work you did on the finishing table?
Well, when the blouses would come from the machines, they had the button holes done with the machine and we would sew the buttons on to correspond with the button hole. And then if there was anything that came that had to have hooks, we sewed the hooks on. And cut off ends and all that sort of thing, till the product was finished and right to go to the presser.
Was the presser in the same room?
Yes.
Did that cause heat and steam?
No it didn't. They were down the other end. They had gas irons. Yes, gas irons, with a long tube.
What were the working conditions like? Was it light?
Oh, all right. We started at 8 o'clock, finished at 5.
How much time for lunch?
About half an hour.
Would you go off the premises?
No, have your lunch there.
In the same room?
Yes.
It would be a long day in the same room.
It was a long day, to say nothing of the rats when you came in the next morning where they'd been and left their traces. Yes, rats.
Did you see them during the day?
Never seen them. Just saw what they left behind. Then the product used to go to somebody and they'd get it all out - if they were stained - with benzene, I think it was, or something like that.
Did the rats get into the clothes then?
Well, they left their mark on them. Some of them, not all.
You were saying that that work bored you. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 39. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
It did, yes, wasn't interesting.
How long were you at that stage?
I was there about a month I think.
On the finishing table?
Yes.
Your position in the establishment would have been sort of a low - - -?
Yes, right down.
You wouldn't have had anyone working under you?
Oh no.
Did you have the whole weekend off?
Yes. Oh, I think we worked Saturday mornings till 1 o'clock - that's right! Yes, worked Saturdays too.
And just four shillings a week for the work?
Yes.
So after a month you went on to the machines. What was the work you were doing there?
Nurses' aprons, with a bib, you know. And you had a hemmer on your machine that you hemmed round the bib and down. Then they were put together with this hemmer too, you know, quick work, because you couldn't loaf. You had to get so many out because they had a book and you kept tally of what you did. If you didn't do enough, Lander would say 'You haven't done your tally this week. You've got to pull yourself together and do more'.
That was the Manager?
Yes.
Mr Lander?
Yes.
Were you docked pay if you didn't?
No, I was never docked, no. It was all right, the place. Then a family came from England and came to live nearby and this girl got a job at D. & W. Murray's too. We were great friends and we used to walk to work in the mornings, walk home at night.
How long would that take you? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 40. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Oh, best part of an hour, because it was - - Oh, I forget how many miles - about three and a half miles. So she said, one day, she said, 'I think we'll try for a job at G. & R. Wills'. It's piece work there and we might earn more.' Of course I was up to six shillings then by this time.
How had you got to that? Because you were on the different work, on the machines?
Yes but I'd been there six months and got a rise. You got a rise every six months. So I left - - We went to G. & R. Wills' and we got a job there - piece work. So they put me straight on to blouses.
Would you just be about fourteen at this stage?
Yes. Wouldn't be much more.
Where were G. (Sr R. Wills'?
They were on the corner of Pulteney Street and Hindmarsh Square. The building is still there. A Malvern Star bike shop was there for years after I left, of course.
Were they advertising for people or did you - - -?
They advertised, you see, and so we went and we got on there. And we used to make blouses for four shillings a dozen. They were certainly cut out but they had - - -. They were buttoned down the back and they had a piece of embroidery put down the front, pin tucks - three pin tucks each side - and a high collar with a piece of embroider and pin tucks. Four shillings a dozen!
How many could you do in a week?
You had to think about doing it in a day! There were perhaps two dozen a day, or perhaps a dozen and a half. And I did earn more there. But you didn't have time to turn around there. It was awful. You had to work like mad, you know, to make your money. But we were happy.
What were the conditions like? Was that another big workroom?
Oh, that was a big nice place. Clean, lovely place. There were shirt machinists there too and white workers, dressmakers.
You talk about white workers. What work were they doing?
Oh, that was white petticoats with lace, and drawers, combinations - -
END OF TAPE 2 SIDE B: TAPE 3 SIDE A
We were talking about white work. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 41. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Yes, camisoles they call them. They were beautifully made with lace, you know, and ribbon run through, and little basque on them. [A half circle of material joined at the waist and covering the hips.] You see, you didn't wear bras - didn't know anything about bras then. Camisoles. And they were darted down under your bosom - very nice.
How many women would have been working at G. St R. Wills'?
Oh, there were a lot of people in that room. There must have been - - I suppose there must have been fifty in the part I was and then over beyond there were shirt makers and pyjamas and all that sort of thing.
So it was a very big - - -?
A big establishment, you know, Wills'. And then down below there were tailoring, I think, down underneath. I think there was another floor. And then they had a big warehouse in Gawler Place too, G. & R. Wills'.
So you were making blouses. How long were you at G. a( R. Wills'.
Oh, I was there for about two years.
What were the hours there?
We started at half past eight there, and I think we knocked off at 5 o'clock. Never before 5 anywhere.
And did you work on Saturday morning there as well?
Yes, just the same.
So if you were managing, one, and a half dozen shirts a day, you would have been making a good deal more than you had at the other place.
Oh, I was, yes. Then I was able to clothe myself and I started to make my own clothes. That saved a lot. They wouldn't take any money from me, home, but I had to clothe myself and pay my own fare.
You say the work conditions at G. & R. Wills' were cleaner and better than at the other place.
Yes, that's right.
Were there work accidents in this kind of work?
There was an accident at G. & R. Wills' and I think I had left there. I don't remember the exact accident. But we all had long hair and this girl - - They were electric machines run on a motor and they had long - oh, what'll I call it - a long spindle I'll say, with wheels down underneath, and from that wheel up to your machine there was a belt and that drove your machine. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 42. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
When you pressed your foot on the tredle of course. But that drove the machine. This girl, one day, got down underneath to put - her belt had come off. And she, instead of calling the man - the boy that did it - she got down and her hair got caught and pulled the side of her scalp off - all her hair out. And it was the same name as me and people thought it was me. Exactly the same name and people knew that I worked there. But I think I had left there.
With these sewing machines, was it a motor driven tredle or did you have to tredle yourself?
No, it was motor driven, by this wheel - big motor at the end of the benches and a shaft that was going along - couldn't think of the word. To every machine was one of these large wheels and the belt came up and there were three smaller wheels, and as you pressed you foot the wheels came together and drove your machine.
Were they motor driven at your first job as well?
Yes, just the same.
Was it tiring work on the machine?
No. The machines were easy to work.
Did they break down frequently?
Oh, sometimes they did and you had to call the mechanic if you couldn't fix it yourself. But more often than not we fixed 'em ourselves. And then on Friday we'd knock off work a bit early and clean our machines and oil them.
You've mentioned that there was a man who did the repairs.
Yes, he was the mechanic.
Would he be the only man working on your floor?
What I remember.
You would have had forewomen managing - -
Forewoman, yes. Well, she stood at the end of the place behind the counter and when you'd finished your work you'd take it and throw it on the finishing table, take your book, and go and get another bundle. That's how you worked. You always had to go to the counter. You couldn't ask for any particular thing that you'd like to do. You gave your book and you got what you, you know.
The work you'd done would be entered into the book. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 43. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Yes, that's right. Be entered when you got it and the time you took it back. To see how long you took to do it. And the price. This was the piece work I mean. And at the end of the week you'd get your money tallied up and you'd get what you'd earned.
What sort of a worker were you? Did you compare yourselves with the others in the amount you earned?
Oh, my friend and I, we were pretty good together, you know. We worked. We didn't talk and loaf like some did. No, I was a fairly good worker.
Would the forewoman stop talking?
Oh, she would reprimand you if you talked.
So there was not much talking while you worked?
No, you didn't have time. And lunch hour, the machinery was all stopped and you could pay threepence a week and you got your tea and coffee, or cocoa, whatever you wanted, milk and sugar, and of course brought your own lunch. But you had to go down about four flights of stairs down to the dining room to have your meal. It was a very nice dining room. And there was your hot tea at the end of the table - a big enamel teapot. That was very good. And we'd sit along the tables and talk and have our cups of tea - two or three if you liked.
You also brought your own lunch from home?
Yes, brought our own sandwiches. I think you could buy cake or anything like that That's just vaguely I remember.
You would have made a lot of new friends.
Oh, dear, yes, I had a lot of friends.
Were there social activities attached to the work? You mentioned a concert before. Did you have social groups and social outings attached to your work.
No, my friend and I - her name was Alice, and she had a younger sister called Annie who came to work with us after a while. We used to just go out together. We used to go on Sunday nights down to the rotunda - the band concerts. And Friday or Saturday nights we'd go - walk into town and go up and down Rundle Street. There used to be a band on the different hotels. Crowds of people walking up and down and meet different ones you knew and talk and get home again by about 10. That was our enjoyment.
So you were about two years at G. & R. Wills' were you?
Yes, I think so. Well then, they went back to England. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 44. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Your friend?
Yes. I missed them so much. Well, Goode, Durrant's advertised and they amalgamated with Murray's. They had a warehouse in Grenfell Street and I think that looked a nice place to work in there, better than the factory, I'm thinking - a little bit of a snob. So, anyway, I went in there and I got taken on there. See, really what I wanted - I wanted to get away from blouses, I wanted to learn more about dresses and dressmaking. That's mostly what made me leave. I wasn't getting anywhere. I knew how to make a blouse. So I went there and I was put straight on to coats - overcoats. Oh, they were heavy things. But, I got on, and that's where the Miss Smith was that heard me sing, at Goode, Durrant's. She was an overseer, that lady. And then I did dresses. And I went on and on and I learnt quite a lot there, and I made costumes with the canvas in them, all that. See, well, I learnt a lot.
So you think you developed a lot of skills there?
Yes, I did. And I turned out to be a good dressmaker in the finish.
What was the teaching like when you started on to a new section?
Well, they didn't exactly teach you. The garment was all cut out and the forewoman would come along and she'd say, 'Now that's got to be like this', or you'd see a - they'd show you a sample. And you sort of knew which was which, sort of. And there was a dummy stand that you could go and put the garment on and see that it was all right and pin things and - - -. Yes, I liked that. I was happy there. I left to get married.
And how big an establishment was that?
Well they had been a big establishment up in Grote Street but they had got rid of that and only the dressmaking section down in the warehouse.
So how many people were you working with there?
Oh, there wouldn't have been about - - -. We had a finishing table there too, and a presser, and the presser only had a little small table. Her name was Alma O'Connell. She was only, you know, very small. And there were two benches. I suppose there would have been twenty on each bench. And one side, as I say again, was the white workers and the dressmakers, which I was one of.
Did you earn more money at that work than you had at G. I& R. Wills'.
Well, it was regular. You knew what you were going to get. I just forget how much I got. Over a pound a week, I think, which was good money in those ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 45. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8.503
days. I just forget. But I was able to clothe myself and get my box ready. You got your glory box ready, you know - six of this and six of that, and made it all yourself. And then, I used to do a little bit at home on weekends for girls I knew. I used to make a dress for them occasionally and girls about the street.
Would they pay you for it?
Oh yes, I used to get about ten shillings for a dress. Yes, I done all right.
Were the hours different at Goode, Durrant's?
No, about the same but it wasn't so far to go. You know, I'd get off the bus at the top of - - -. The bus - the tram - at the top of Grenfell Street and just walk down. Because it was nearly up to King William Street. Just down a bit from Gawler - James Place - on the left hand side going to King William Street.
Do you remember any sort of union organisation?
Oh, no, we never had such a thing. No, no unions.
If you had complaints with your work, who would you go to?
You'd go to the forelady.
Were they receptive about that sort of thing?
Yes, but there didn't seem to be that sort of element - complaints.
What about, for instance, if you were feeling ill or tired?
Oh, well, you'd just ask could you go home, you felt ill. And she'd say, 'Well, would you like to go down and lay down for a while?' or, could they give you anything - Aspro or something? Not an Aspro - didn't know what that was - but, you know, 'Would you like to stay and see if you get better?'. And I'll tell you what, when you had your periods, they'd give you a drink of ginger that nearly took the throat out of you. You know, the ordinary ginger that you - - -. Powder ginger - oh! That was supposed to take the pain away.
Or replace it with another one?
Yes. The cure was worse than the complaint. (laughter) But, those sort of things. They were very good. I liked Goode, Durrant's. And strange as it may seem, we had the same forelady that had left G. & R. Wills' and gone there. So I was right. She knew me and I knew her. Her name was Mrs Carter too.
Were they pleasant people to work with? ATB/3/I29-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 46. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Yes, very. Yes, I don't think there was any undercurrent or nastiness about the place.
Did the managers impose on your working day?
We seldom seen them. The manager at Goode, Durrant's was called Mr Heel and he was a lovely man, but we very seldom seen him. And another thing, we used to be able to go up in the lift instead of walk up the stairs. It was right up at the top floor. We used to sing, and it was a lovely - - -. Well, you looked forward to going to work, you know.
So, you'd sing?
Yes, we sang while we worked.
Was that the only place that you did?
What sang?
Yes.
Yes, except when I went with Miss Smith to any concerts or anything.
But you didn't sing while you worked at the other organisations?
No. No, that was the best place I worked at.
So you had always worked amongst women. What were the attitudes to working women? For instance, were you expected to leave at a certain age?
Oh, no, as long as you worked you stayed. Unless you left to get married. Then you gave a week's notice.
And you were expected to leave if you married?
Yes, nobody - - -. It was unheard of to go back to work once you were married.
So you don't remember any women working with you who were married?
No. Once you got married you left.
Were they women of all ages you were working with?
Yes. Some quite a bit older than me.
Were there also women in their forties and fifties?
Oh, I should think there would been, but they were not married. There was a Miss Sampson. I'm sure she must have been every day forty. And a Miss Vivian. She wouldn't have been quite as old. I think eventually she did marry, that one, but the other one - she was still there when I'd left. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 47. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Let's, before talking about your marriage - - -. So you had three different jobs during your working time. Did you manage to go from one to the other or were you ever out of work?
I was never out of work, no.
You had said you were sharing a room with your grandmother at Prospect. Did that stay the same during your working life?
Yes, didn't worry me much at all, no.
You weren't, perhaps, wanting more privacy?
No, we didn't think about it I don't think. There was no hope. That's all the rooms we had.
You said that your gran and your mother didn't expect you to pay board. So you didn't have to contribute?
No, as long as I looked - bought my own clothes, shoes, stockings, and all this, and paid my own way.
Would that include medical bills and chemist?
Yes. That's right.
What about dental work. Did you see a dentist much?
Oh, no, no. No, not like now, you know, you go to the dentist. But we didn't. I used to go when I was very young. I used to have a lot of toothache and I'd go before 9 o'clock and get it pulled out for nothing. I suppose it was a mechanic learning - I wouldn't know. Oh, it used to hurt. Used to get the tooth pulled out before 9 o'clock. It didn't cost anything.
Did you have many teeth pulled when you were young?
Oh, quite a few. But they were first teeth I think. They must have been. But I didn't have dentures till some time after I was married.
About what age were you?
What when I had dentures first?
Yes.
Oh, about twenty five or six I think.
And that was because your teeth had gone bad.
Yes, they'd gone, yes. I had to have them out. I had four in the front first and then the others gradually went and I was getting toothache again, and couldn't afford to go and get 'em filled. So I finally got the teeth out and - - ATB/3/I29-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 48. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
That was very corn mon, wasn't it, having dentures?
Yes, that's right. Yes, everybody had dentures. Didn't have any teeth filled.
Did the dentures give you constant trouble or how did you manage with them?
What, the dentures?
Yes.
No, I didn't have any trouble. I had the lot out then and then I had to wait six months, I think, till I got my new ones.
Oh, that must have been awkward.
Well, your gums had to heal. But I didn't have the bottom ones. They were only the top set I had. And I had those for years. I don't remember when I got other teeth, I'm sure.
So you had top dentures and no teeth on the bottom?
Yes, I had teeth on the bottom.
Your own teeth?
My own teeth.
I see. As you say, you were able to keep yourself. Were you able to save money at all?
No, I didn't save anything. No, I always had money, but not enough to bank. I don't know when I started banking. But you see, I was buying things to put away for when I got married.
You said that you still went to dances. How often would you go?
Once a week.
On a Saturday night?
Yes, Saturday night. And then it changed to Wednesday nights.
Where were you going?
I was going at that time to the Druid's Hall, Walkerville. And then I went right out to Enfield, a little hall out there. But that closed down. And we used to walk all the way, there and back.
Would it have been on one of those occasions that you wore the fancy dress that you've got photographs of? [see photograph]
That was at the Druid's Hall, Walkerville. And the man that I won it with, he was a married man. His wife was there dressed in something else, I don't ATB/3/I29-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 49. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
know what. His name was Mr Pickering and he and I won the - for the best dressed.
That's when you were Mary O'Morgan?
Molly, yes. That was the - the song was the rage then. 'Molly O'Morgan with her little organ', you know - 'out in the street every day, dressed up in colours so gay', and so it went on. Well then I - - I don't know where I got the dress from but I renovated it and fixed it all up and made it really nice. And it was bright red and blue - very pretty.
Would there be competitions each week of one sort or another?
Oh, no, that was only the end of the year - end of the season - the ball. They used to have a fancy dress ball and the best costume got the prize. I got ten shillings.
Who ran the dance?
Now, I don't know. I just can't think who ran the dance. No, I can't think. I can remember the pianist. His name was Mr Hall - Aubrey Hall. Not Aubrey Hall - Aubrey Hall ran a dance in King William Street. I'd been there once or twice. We used to go from here to there, you know.
Did you enter competitions with dancing?
Yes, I did. I went into a competition at Enfield. I didn't dance with my husband. I danced with a chap called Con Powdy, who was an Aborigine. We won it.
Were there any Aboriginals - - -?
No, he was a very nice chap. Very clean, beautifully dressed and everything.
You said that you met your husband at the dances. What was that occasion? Do you remember?
I used to dance a lot with a chap named McCauley and he came up to me one night and he said, 'Do you mind having a dance with Les Waterman?'. I said, 'No'. And Les Waterman turned out a real beaut dancer. It suited me down to the ground. So then he usually came, and then next he took me out once or twice. And then I went to his twenty first birthday. And then the next thing I'm engaged. As for dates, I can't just tell you the dates. Now, wait a minute, his birthday was on July the fifteenth. But he used to keep it up in those days on the twenty fifth because his mother was a woman that had no sense of dates or anything and half her family weren't registered. You know, very lax sort of a woman. And hers was a broken marriage too. But I got on ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 50. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
very well with her. One of the few that did because she was a bit of a battle axe, my mother-in-law. She fought with every one of her daughter-in-laws or son-in-laws, except me. But she didn't get a chance.
Why was that?
Well, I was never one to fight with anybody. I couldn't see the sense.
You married in 1914. How long had you been engaged?
Oh, not very long. About six months, nine months - something like that. I had a very nice five diamond engagement ring which I was very proud of. We were married, and then I had Ken.
Let's just talk a little bit more about the marriage. Was you husband working when you met him?
Well, yes he was. He was working out at - building huts out at Mitcham for the Mitcham Camp for the military [Mitcham Army Camp]. He was working there. Then he went to Millbrook and worked on the Millbrook Reservoir. Then he got out of work, and he was not a lazy man by any means. And I can't just remember where he went. But in 1917 - - -. He was a devil to gamble, my husband. He was playing cards somewhere, and this fellow said, 'Listen, there's going to be a vacancy in the 'user. Would you like the job?'. So Les jumped at it. So he went and had an interview and they took him on casual while this chap was at the war. So we were on velvet then. And he worked there and when the fellow came back, he told me, he said - whatever his name was, coming back from the war - 'I don't know how I'm going to go'. And he got called up and they gave him a job on the staff where he stayed for forty seven years.
What work was he doing?
He was a paper winder. You see they wind the paper and damp it before it goes to the press. I don't know whether they do the same thing now. I haven't been in there for years. But it was a marvellous place to work. And we knew everybody, and he joined the social club, and needless to say the kids and I had a ball. We had Christmas trees. We had socials, and picnic. The Advertiser picnic was a yearly event. And all that sort of thing.
END OF TAPE 3 SIDE A: TAPE 3 SIDE B
Well just before you - - I won't give you any sordid details of my early life. Well, I don't want to - -. Put it this way. My husband was a gambler. Kept me short of money and I always had to dressmake or do something. But I'd rather - - -. He's dead and gone now and the last few years of my life, ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 51. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
when he gave up gambling, we were happy and we went for a couple of boat trips and all that sort of thing. But I've had a hard life to bring up my family. You understand what I mean?
Yes.
If you really want to know, I won't say - I don't want to blacken him.
No, of course not.
You understand me?
Yes, well, we could leave it at that. But you had said before that both families weren't too happy about the marriage.
No. It were the religion.
Because of the different religion?
Yes. [Break in recording]
Where did you live after you married?
On Main North Road, Prospect.
And was that with your husband's mother?
Yes. And she went away to work.
Where did she go?
Port Victoria.
Why did she have to go away?
Well, she had a family to - - -. She had three children still in school and - Max, Kenny, Neadra - yes, three children still at school. And of course she had them to keep and rent to pay, and I wasn't much help because - money shortages. But anyway, I kept the house going and looked after these three children of hers going to school while she was able to go to work.
What work did she do?
Housekeeping.
Was it in a home?
I think it was a hotel.
Was you husband in work when you first married?
Yes, at Mitcham Camp. Yes, that's where he was. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 52. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
You were saying the other day that once your mother-in-law came back, you'd have to go up to the Destitute Asylum.
Well, she was getting help - getting relief. Poor people got relief - ration ticket sort of thing it was. And I used to go and pick up the tickets and the bread and whatever she got. I used to wheel Ken down there in the pram - walk down there, across the parade grounds - and push it back home again.
What do you remember of the Destitute Asylum?
Oh, I can remember a couple of real old grizzly old men that - you know, they sort of 'What do you want?' attitude. You know, they sort of looked on the people - at the poor people - and you were down below them. There were a lot like that in those days. But they're different now. I mean, when you went to the Adelaide Hospital you were told to 'Get in there and sit down and wait your turn'. Nobody was - well, nice - you know. Everybody was bullying the underdog, sort of thing.
So you weren't treated respectfully?
No, you weren't. But I never had anything to say. I just said 'Thank you', and walked out. You got so many tins of jam and it was always peach or quince or some of the cheaper jams.
So you'd get foodstuffs?
You'd get foodstuffs and then you'd get tickets for meat and I think some- times they'd give you bread. I'm not sure too much about that. And I think you got sugar and flour in bags, and the jam.
How often would you go?
About once a month I think it was you got them.
It would have been a big load.
It was a fairly big load in the pram what with the child sitting in it too.
Did the people you dealt with wear uniforms?
In the Destitute? No. I can remember one man with his grey suit and his beard to match. That's how he appeared to me, you know. I just went in and gave my name, and at one time I said, 'Look, these are not mine'. 'Well, how did you come to be gettin' it?' he said. I said, 'They're for my mother-in-law who's sick', which she was. She used to get violent headaches. But she managed to get the headache on that day. (laughter) Yes.
Do you remember her applying for this relief? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 53. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
No, I don't.
But she'd usually send you?
Yes. Well, I used to very often offer to go because I thought, 'Well I'm better able to go than she is'. And it was an outing for Ken.
What age would she have been at the time?
Now, what age would she have been? I've got an idea she had a fifthieth birthday. Or might have been older, I just can't think. But, I've got her photo there in one of those books.
How long did she receive - - -?
Oh, well, when her family started to grow up, and then - - -. They started to work. She was all right then.
So it would have been a number of years then?
Yes it would have. The eldest son, Claude, he went into the country and worked - to Keith - and he used to send her down money occasionally. And then she had a daughter who used to work - housework - and she used to contribute a bit. She got on all right. And then of course she'd bully Les until she got some money out of him.
Did you feel that there was some sort of a stigma, in your own mind, attached to getting relief?
Well, I don't know how I felt about it really. Yes, I think I did. I don't know, I was a funny mixture. I suppose I still am. I've got a certain amount of pride, or something, I don't know just what. I don't look down on people, but there are things that irritate me a bit. Now, for instance, a home that I go to. Those that live there sort of look down on the day centre people, and I'm one of the day centre people. And I resent that. Because my attitude is like this. The Queen of England was born the same way as I was born. She's going out the same way as I'm going out. What's the difference? She's got more than I've got but perhaps she's got more worries too. But that's how I look at life. I don't think any one person is better than another one. It's your own life. If you want to mess it up, well, that's you.
Looking back, do you remember that people knew that your mother-in-law was getting relief?
Oh, I think people did.
So it would have been talked about? ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 59. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
talked to the bloke and I can have it if I can only get a deposit together, and, oh, we could have fowls and we could have a garden. We could have this.' So I said, 'Well, it's up to you'. And so, anyway we didn't have much deposit to pay but he joined the Co-operative Building Society - that's how we got the house. I don't know what deposit he paid - whether he'd have paid any. I wouldn't be surprised. This was an old place. But it was a big old place. It had a big wide passage, almost as wide as this, and about as long, and two huge rooms, one either side. And then two further down, and a big dining room. Outside there was a big back verandah, a cellar and a kitchen, and a bathroom at the other end with a gas bath heater. That's what I liked. And outside was the wash house.
What year was this that you moved there?
Now, when was Kevin born - Margaret born - no Kevin? It was just after he
That was in 1926.
Well we must have gone round there then. Because I was pregnant with Margaret. That's right, I was pregnant with Margaret when I went around there. No I couldn't have been. Oh well, anyway, I don't know that I was or not. But anyway, we went round there and settled in. Well, he bought chooks - made a big chook yard - and he had a lovely garden. We grew vegetables. Margaret was born there. And we lived there, oh, I think, thirty two years. Then it began to get that way that we couldn't afford to keep it in repair. It was then that I had Mum and Dad living with me, and we couldn't afford it. And I said, one day to Les - - -. Well, in fact the woman across the road put it to me. She said, 'We're going to sell this house. I'd love you to have it'. So I said, 'Oh, all right. I'll see what Les says.' So, I said, 'Look', I said, 'you're paying money out for cement and things and we'll do up this wall - that one's falling down.' So I talked him into it. So he said, 'Oh, all right. You can tell Mrs Lynn we'll have her house'. So I told Mrs Lynn and the boys went over - Ken and Jack, and Kevin I think - they went over and had a look. They came home and they said to me, 'You're not having that house Mum. You can walk through the walls - through the cracks from one room to the other.' So we didn't have it. Well then we had practically sold the one round there, because an Italian wanted it for the big land. So finally we went up Tranmere some- where looking at a house, and Les liked it, and when we came back home - around there - Mum said, 'There's been an agent here that's got the house for you around in Adelaide Street'. So we came around here and saw the lady, ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 54. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
I think it probably was. I never heard anything. But she wasn't the only one. There were hundreds of people getting relief at that time because they couldn't get any work and - - -. But once her family started leaving home she was all right then. And then - - Oh, I stayed with her for - - -. Well, I had Ken and Linda - Ken and Colin and Linda. And Ken had started school before I left her.
So a good number of years.
Yes, but she was away more than she was home with me. And I practically reared those - well, looked after the last three that she had at school. There's only two of them left now and that's the youngest girl, Neadra - and she's seventy eight - and Claude, he was here this Sunday. He always visits me, my brother-in-law. He's eighty two.
So, when you were having your own children you had a big household already?
Yes. But she looked after Ken while I went into hospital and had Colin. And I brought Colin home and - - -. Ken was born in 1915 - August. He would be seventy this year had he lived. And Colin was born the sixteenth of December 1918.
1917?
'17. And he only lived six months. He died of meningitis.
Can you tell me about that?
Yes. He cried and cried one night all night. Kept all the household awake. So my mother-in-law said to me, she said, 'I think you'd better take him to the doctor'. Well, that was in the evening. I walked down to the doctor with him in the pram, left Ken home with her, and the two youngest boys, Max and Kenny - her two youngest, brother-in-laws - they walked with me, and they were only kids at the time. And we went down to Dr Good's on the Prospect Road. And Dr Good looked at him and done him over, you know, and he said, 'I think you'd better take this child straight to the Children's Hospital'. He said, 'I'm sure he's got meningitis'. Well that gave me a terrible turn. So I said to the boys, 'Well, we're this near to the hospital. You can go home if you like and I'll walk. I'll go.'. No. So those two kids came with me. And we walked down to the Children's Hospital where they admitted him. So they asked me at the hospital would I come down first thing in the morning. So I said 'Yes'. Well, we went home and we told - I always called her Gay. Ken christened her Gay instead of Grandma and Gay she was. So I told her about it and I said 'I've got to get up early and go down early in the morning on the ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 55. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
first tram', which I did, and I fed him. And I went every three hours for that month - fed that child. .And then I was going to catch the tram early and the man was coming across from the Windmill Hotel, and he said, 'Where are you going?'. I said 'I'm going down to the hospital'. He said, 'Well they've just rang for you to come down'. So I said, 'Well, I'm on my way'. Well the tram was coming down the line from Enfield and I went down and I went in, and the doctor - I think his name was Dr Cooper - he said, 'I've got some bad news'. He said, 'Your baby's not going to live', he said, 'and if he does he'll be just like a vegetable'. He said, 'He's blind now and', you know, 'he'll be better off if he passes out'. Well, he couldn't feed that morning. So I don't think I went - no, I didn't go home, I stayed. I said 'I'll stay'. So I stayed. And after he died they called me in and they had him in a lovely little cot, a nice little bunch of white flowers in his hands. And, you know, we had a nice little funeral in the North Road. I bought the block of land and I paid so much a week for that after he had gone. The undertaker was good to me. I paid so much a week for that and bought the block. Well, that block is where my husband is now. So that was a good thing I did. Because when he died I had the land you see, and he was buried in the North Road too. And that's where I'll be planted.
How long did it take you to pay?
Oh, I don't know. I just can't think - tell you how much it was. And anyway - - -. Then I went back to G. & R. Wills' for a while to work.
This was after Colin died?
After Colin died. I couldn't settle anywhere. So Gay minded Ken while I went to work and I helped her along with the housekeeping. Les was in the Advertiser by this. And, so anyway, I didn't stay there long. I went home again and from then on I stayed home. Well, then I had Linda. She was born in 1919 and she was a lovely girl. I just plodded along and worked and sewed. And then Max came home one day and he said, 'Would you like to go and live somewhere else?'. I said, 'Don't ask me that, I might say yes', you know. He said, 'Well, I reckon you ought to', he said, 'Your kids are getting big now and we're home and we're all right'. So I went and I got myself a house up in Regent Street, Kensington. So up there we went to live and we hardly had a stick - just the bare necessities of things. Because I didn't need them in the big house where we lived. So I went up there and lived and the next thing I had Kevin.
That was in? Oh, you had Jack. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 56. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
I had Jack first, that's right. Yes, I had Jack first. I forgot poor old Jack. He was here on the weekend. He'd die if he thought I'd forgot him.
That was in 1922?
Yes, Jack I had. And Jack it was. Linda was born exactly three years on the day that Jack was three years old. No, Jack was born - I've got a bit muddled.
Yes, on the twenty fourth of April - -
That's right, they were both born on the twenty fourth of April. Three years difference. And then after Jack it was Kevin. And Kevin won the 'prettiest baby competition' at the Adelaide Town Hall - 150 babies. He was beautiful. And I got the brass bowl out there in the passage that he won. And one woman said to me, 'Put a bag over his head'. (laughter) There are cats aren't there? Put a bag over his head. I said, 'I don't happen to have one', and walked off.
And you had another daughter?
Yes, Margaret.
What year was she born?
'29 I think. Would that be right?
Yes, I don't think you wrote that in your book, the year she was born.
I think she was born '29.
Did you have them all in hospital?
All except Margaret. I had all in the Queen Victoria Hospital and I didn't know what it was to have an anaesthetic with one of them, except Margaret, at home. When I thought I was going to have her I thought, 'I just can't go through it again without something' and they didn't - - -. You had to have natural births which I did. And you had to walk the floor, you know - these pains. They believed in walking. And walk and walk I did. And I can remember saying to this matron - Skethway her name was - with Ken, 'Oh, I don't know how much longer I'm going to take this. I can't walk any more.' And she turned on me. She said, 'You ought to be thankful you're being a mother'. I thought, 'I wish it was you and not me'. The pain - oh it was terrible.
Did you know what to expect with childbirth with your first?
No, I didn't. I knew that you had pain, but nothing like that. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 57. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8.503
Who had told you about childbirth?
I don't know. I think it was just girls talking amongst ourselves. Because my mother never did.
Who attended the birth?
Only the matron and the nurses. But once it was over I was as right as rain and I was delighted with my baby because he had such beautiful big blue eyes. And then I went out there - - -. They had a cottage - what they called a cottage out there - and you could go out there and stay. And I was that glad to get away from Gay and the family, so I went out there and waited for Linda. Had a fortnight's holiday. See I'd lost Colin in the meantime, and I - - -. They were very good to my children. I wasn't afraid to leave them. But I went out there and I waited for a fortnight and then she was born.
And you had to, of course, stay in hospital for two weeks afterwards.
Yes, and you got up on the tenth day - no, you got out of bed on the tenth day. The eleventh day you got up for an hour. On the twelth day you got up for a couple more hours, and the thirteenth, or fourteenth day, however, you went home.
And then you had to be up all day.
Yes. You know, now, they're in hospital today and have their baby and they're up tomorrow and the next day they're going home.
Of course you would have had to go home and then work all day.
Yes, that's right, into it again. And you were so weak. You know, fourteen days in bed - or thirteen days, whatever it was. But anyway, they were good out there, it was a good place, and it wasn't expensive.
How much, do you remember?
I can remember it was twenty one shillings a week. Five shillings you had to pay admittance when you put in your application, and then you filled in your application and got your doctor to sign it or a couple of witnesses to sign it. You went through all this rigamrole to get in. And, I'm sure it was twenty one shillings. That was one pound one, wasn't it?
Yes.
That's right, yes.
Twenty four shillings?
Twenty shillings in a pound and one shilling over - a guinea, they called it. ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 58. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Was it the pain, or was there any reason that you had the last child at home?
Because the pain. I didn't want to go through it again.
So did you have a doctor attend you?
Yes, I had Dr John Verco. I think he's passed away now.
And he gave you an anaesthetic?
Yes, he did, and I had a lady midwife came. And doctor came a couple of days, you know, and I got on all right. I was able to rule the kids. We were - - -. Where was I living then? Oh, round here on Portrush Road - yes, that's where I lived, where she was born.
You were a very big family.
Yes six. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten - - -. [referring to grandchildren she cared for later]
Had you planned to have that many children?
No, I didn't. Accidents. And so then - -
Was there any talk that you knew of of contraception?
No, I didn't know anything. I never mixed with people - - -. And I never talked about anything like that. Now, people talk sex openly. I didn't. I thought that's sacred between yourselves. And I'm still a bit disgusted the way people talk about their marital states and all that. I don't like it. I suppose I'm old fashioned.
I think it's called discretion.
Probably. You could be right.
With such a large household - - -. No, you moved out of mother-in-law's home after you'd had your first three, is that right.
Yes.
So you would have been on your own looking after your family during the 1920s.
Yes, I was up in Regent Street. Well then, Les came home one day - - Oh, he came back again, down to Hanbury Street, Stepney. The house up there in Regent Street was sold.
You were renting it?
Yes, we were renting it. Well anyway he came home one day and he said, 'I've bought a house'. I said, 'What with?' He said, 'No'. He said, 'There's a house around there for sale. It's an old place but it's got a big block of land and I've ATB/3/129-3 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 60. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
who I happened to know, and she was going down to Fulham to live. And I liked the house here - it was just fine. And by this time I had four grand- children living with me. You see, Margaret had had a divorce and I had these four children I had to rear. The youngest one was three. So we took this house. We came round here. And the granddaughters were married from here and I made their wedding dresses.
So there's always been a lot of family.
Yes, and there's still a lot of family around.
Of course your children would have been going to school all during the 1920s. Which schools did they attend?
Round Trinity Gardens. It was called Welly Road then - Wellington Road. Do you remember it as Wellington Road?
No.
I didn't think you would. But it was Wellington Road we lived on and then they changed it to Trinity Gardens. This side of the road is Maylands - this side of the Portrush Road. The opposite side starts Trinity Gardens - that's the border. Well, the kids went to Trinity Gardens School, but it was at that time Wellington Road.
Would your youngest have been working before 1930? How long did they stay at school? He was born in 1915 so he would have been - -
Now, Ken went to work at Koster's Pottery.
About what age was he?
I think he might have been fifteen. He went to work at Koster's Pottery and he was there for quite a while. And then his father got him a job at the Advertiser and he worked in the commercial there, until the time of his death. ATB/3/129-31 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 61. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
INDEX
Notes to the Index Users of this Index should note that in many instances the particular word used for the index heading will not be found in the text. The conversational vocabularies of most people do not correspond to the Library of Congress subject headings which have, in the main, been adhered to in the construction of this index. Users are also directed to the main card index to the 'S.A. Speaks' project. Abbreviations M8503 Autobiographical memoir in File 8503 P8503 Photographs in File 8503 passim 'in various parts' Family names Rather than index names of all family members and relatives mentioned in each interview, entries are included that indicate surnames (including women's maiden names) of at least the Interviewee's father and mother, and spouse, when applicable. Other relatives are indexed if significant mention is made of them.
Abandonment of family see Desertion Catholic schools —St Joseph's, Pine and non-support Street, 25,29-33 passim Aborigines, Australian see Australian Central Market, M8503, 17 Aborigines Childbirth at home, 58 Adelaide (Corporation area) — East End, Childbirth in hospital, 3,56-7; passim; M8503, passim M8503, 27 Adelaide Children's Hospital, 54-5 Children Adelaide Hospital—Outpatients, 16,52 —Amusements; see also particular Adelaide Show, 18-9 pastimes; 15,33; M8503, 7-10,13-4,16 Advertiser, The, 3,24,50,60; M8503, —Management, 22 31-2 Children and class consciousness, 28,29 Alcohol, 2,19 Children's chores, 13,14,31; M8503, 3 Amusements—Baby competitions, 56 Children's Hospital see Adelaide Assembly, School see Schools Children's Hospital — Exercises and Recreation Christmas, 8,26-7 Australian Aborigines as dance Church attendance, 20,27 partners, 49 Clare, 26 Australian football, 18 Class consciousness, 28,29,52,53 —Players, 5; M8503, 11 Clothing and dress; see also Costume; Backyards, 12,36 6; M8503, 5,12,24-5 Barry, Annie May, 1-2,4,7,18,22 —Church, 14 Barry, John Joseph, 1-3,18; M8503, 1-2 — Swim ming, 20-1 Barry, Mary Theresa see Waterman, Clothing trade, 36-46; M8503, 20-1 Mary Theresa Clothing workers, 36-46; M8503, 20-1 Bathing beaches — Glenelg, 20-1 Complete dentures, 47-8 Baths, 12,35 Concerts, Penny, 15; M8503, 9 Betrothal, 24 Confectionary, 12 Bicycles, 15,17 Cookery, 10 Birth control—Ignorance of, 58 Cooling of food see Food—Cooling Blythe, 26 Co-operative Building Society, 59 Board, Payment of, 47 Corporal punishment, 30 Boer War, 1899-1902 see South African Costume, P8503A,B War, 1899-1902 Courtship, 49 Books and reading, 24 Cows, 14 Boots, 14 Cummins, Mary Ellen see O'Brien, Mary Botanic Park, 20 Ellen Building and loan associations, 59 D. & W. Murray Ltd, 2,34,36-9; M8503, Butchers, M8503, 20 20 ATB/3/129-3i Mrs Mary WATERMAN 62. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8503
Daly Street, 1,4,6,9,17,21,26 Health see Hygiene Dancing, 36,48; M8503, 10,21,24,27; Heating, 11 P8503A,B Holidays, 26 Death, 3,7,8,54-5; M8503, 28 Home deliveries, 13; M8503, 20 Dental hygiene see Teeth-Care and Horse drawn vehicles- Drags, 21 hygiene Horse race betting, M8503, 30 Dentures, Complete see Complete Houses see Dwellings dentures Hygiene, 16, 25, 45, 54-5 Desertion and non-support, 1,18 Income, Household sources of, 5,6,14, Destitute Asylum, 52,53 45,50 Divorce, 23 Industrial accidents, 41-2 Doctors see Physicians Irish Australians, 8-9 Domestic service see Servants John Martin & Co Ltd, M8503, 14-5 Dolls, 27 Kerosene tins, Uses of, 12,15 Dress see Clothing and dress Kitchens, 12,15 Dressmaking, 6,44,49,50,55 Knives-Cleaning, M8503, 3 Dwellings, 9-11,34-6 Labour and labouring classes, 5,6 Earthquakes, M8503, 10-1 Lamplighters, 33; M8503, 8 East End Market for shopping, 13 Laundry, M8503, 18-9 Education, Primary, 29-34; M8503, 4-7 Marriage-Effect of gambling, 50-1 Education, Worth of, 34 Marriage, Misery and conflict in, 1-3, Edward VIII-Coronation, 31; M8503, 1 22,27,50-1 Electric trams see Tramways (Electric) Marriage, Mixed, 27,51; M8503,25 Empire Day, 30 Married women-Employment see Employment, Means of gaining, 40,44 Wives-Employment -Role of fathers, 60 Matriarchy, 23 -Role of mothers, 34 Meningitis, 54-5 Engagement see Betrothal Menstruation, 45 European War, 1914-1918-War Midwives, 58 work-Women, M8503, 26 Military education of parrots, 14 Extended families see Families, Milk supply, 14 Extended Millinery, 36 Families, Extended, 5-6,22,36,51,55,60; Mothers and baby competitions, 56 M8503, 1,25 Moving-pictures, 15-6 Family recreation, 19-22; M8503, Murray, D. & W. Ltd see D. & W. 1,2-3,9,17,30 Murray Ltd Flinders Street Model School, 25,29-34; Music, 2,24 M8503, .5-6 O'Brien, Annie May see Barry, Annie Food, 20 May -Cooling, 10 O'Brien, Mary Ellen, 5-6,7,8,13,23,27, Food relief, 52-3 33; M8503, 1,2,10-1,16 Football see Australian football Old age pensions, 5 Foster home care-Informal, 22 Oral tradition-Family, 8-9 Fowls, 13,29,36,59 Pantomimes, 17 G. & R. Wills & Co Ltd, 39-43,55; Parklands, South, 14 M8503, 21,24 Penny concerts see Concerts, Penny Gambling, M8503, 30 Pets, 13,14 -Effect on marriage, 50-1 Physicians, 54,55,58 Gardens, 12 Pianola, M8503,30 Gender -Roles, 22,56 Picnicking, 21 Glenelg, 20-1 Playgrounds, 32 Glory boxes, 45; M8503, 24 Political participation, 27; M8503, 2 Goats, 33; M8503, 26 Poverty, 7,28,53 Gold miners-Western Australia, 5,6 Primary education see Education, Goode, Durrant & Co, 44-6; M8503, 24 Primary Goodwood, 1,13 Prospect, 21,34,35,51; M8503, 18 Grandparents, 7,23,33 Queen Victoria Hospital see Queen's Hair, M8503, 11 Home ATB/3/129-31 Mrs Mary WATERMAN 63. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8.503
Queen's Home, 3,56-7; M8503, 27 Transportation to work, 36,39 Rations, 52-3 Tramways (Electric)- Advent of, Remarriage, 22,23 M8503, 13-4 Royal Adelaide Hospital see Adelaide Unemployed-Feckless, 5,6 Hospital Viaducts-Sleeps Hill, 21 St Joseph's School, Pine Street, 25, Victoria, Queen - Death, M8503, 1 29-33 Wages-Clothing workers, 39,40,44 Saturday, M8503, 3 Walkerville, 48 Saving and thrift, 48 Walking as mode of transportation, 17, School attendance, M8503, 13 36,54 School children-Recreation, 32 Water-supply, Domestic, 11-2,35 School discipline, 30 Waterman, Les, 49,50,58-9; M8503, School playgrounds see Playgrounds 29,30 Schools-Exercises and recreation, 31; Waterman, Mary Theresa, 8503, passim; M8503, 5 M8503, passim; P8503A,B Servants, 26,51 Western Australia- Gold miners, 5 Shopping in Adelaide, 13,19 Widowers, 22 Singing, 2,20,25 Widows, 22 Singing at school, 28,29,30,32; M8503, Wife beating, 22 4-5,7 Wills, G. & R. & Co Ltd see G. & R. Singing at work, 25,46 Wills & Co Ltd Sleeping arrangements, 10,36,47 Wives-Employment, 46,55 Sleeps Hill viaduct, 21 Woman -Employment see Women's Smoking-Tobacco substitutes work South African War, 1899-1902, 2 Women's work (Paid, outside the home); Stepfathers, 22 see also names of occupations; 22 Stockport, 3 Women's work in war see European War, Street-lighting, M8503, 8 1914-1918-War work-Women Sunday, 20; M8503, 4 World War, 1914-1918 see European Teachers, M8503, 6-7 War, 1914-1918 Teeth, 47-8 Youth-Amusements, 21,43,48; M8503, Theatre Royal, 17,22 21-2, P8503A,B Thousand Voices Choir, 32; M8503, 7