Rebecca: What about you, Herb? Herb: Home is where Harrison is. Harrison: Well, that’s the best definition. Starships & The two of us are a tribe. Rebecca: I want to switch gears to Star Trek, specifically Leonard Nimoy. Can you Friendships tell us something special about him? Herb: I’ll answer that, because I know Har- rison won’t. Hopefully, she’ll give you per- mission to use my answer: The Inner World of Star Trek Probably the best kept secret in the Star Trek world (a hard world in which to keep with Herb and Harrison Solow a secret) is the relationship between Harrison and Leonard. Quite simply, he adored her. He confessed to me that he was a little in awe of her—he found her intelligence formidable—and her heart a refuge. She was his confidante. He talked REBECCA EVANS, INTERVIEWER to her about deeply personal things—reli- gion, spirituality, his feelings, old wounds, Publicity for Herb Solow’s Documentary of new interests —a couple of relationships that troubled him. Elvis Presley: Elvis: That’s the Way It Is. Whenever he hadn’t heard from her for a time, he’d email or Idaho draws culture and is built on beauty and hidden treasures. I recently had the phone and say “Harrison, where are you? I need you.” Only he opportunity to conduct an interview tucked away near the Greenbelt. I felt as if I I have two sons in California and a stepson in Can- didn’t call her Harrison. He had a special name for her. It’s up entered a hidden passage as I sat in the Idaho home of the former Head of MGM Harrison: ada. And their families, of course. Herb has a daughter back to her if she would like to tell what it was. Studios, Paramount Television, and Desilu Studios, Herbert Solow and his wife, Dr. East. We each have a few cousins and I have one aunt. That’s Harrison Solow, Pushcart Prize recipi- Harrison: (smiling) No, she wouldn’t. all. ent, Literature, Theology, and Writing Herb: He had complete, and completely justified, trust in her. Professor, Author, Star Trek Authority, Rebecca: What do you like best about Idaho? former nun, and true polymath. To be Harrison: It was mutual. Herb: Peace and quiet. The natural beauty of the woods and clear, Herb is the man responsible for rivers and hills. Very western. Herb: The three of us were very close, but his bond with Har- developing and launching Star Trek and rison was extraordinary. It was reverent. These aren’t words I Yes, it feels like the real West. Like the one I grew other iconic television shows and mov- Harrison: use often, but I’d say it was spiritual or mystical. What some up in. I also like the winters. Most people who live in more ies into the world. people call soul-mates. They called it “the holy bonds of than one place go south for the winter. We’re the opposite. Yes, we are in Idaho and the encounter friendship.” I’d known Leonard for almost 50 years when he The autumns, of course, are just as beautiful. Also, there are feels both other-worldly and magical. died, ever since I hired him for Star Trek in 1964. Gene Rod- so many well-mannered people and very kind people (which The synergy between Herb and Harri- denberry first suggested Leonard to me and when I evaluated are not always the same thing) and that’s delightful. It is very son is magnetic. Yet I can’t help won- him, in addition to several other actors, for the part of Spock, peaceful, as Herb says. der, why Idaho? So, I ask. I thought he had something special – he wouldn’t just play Rebecca: I know you’ve both lived in many different cultures Spock, he would be Spock – so I told my business affairs per- Your primary home is in Cal- Rebecca: and countries both before you were married and after. Can son to have Leonard’s agent call me. And that was the begin- ifornia but you also live here, in Idaho, you each share with me your concept of “home”? ning of a legend. part time. Do you have family here? Harrison: I think I can answer that most fully with a quote from When Leonard met Harrison almost 30 years later—a few years Yes. My mother lives here. Harrison: something I wrote about Wales: before she and I met—I hadn’t seen him for quite a long time. I’ve been coming here for visits since We were both in our in early sixties. Harrison was a generation 1989 when the area was far more rural. “We all belong to tribes. Some are of our own choosing, some younger, but an old soul, and as Leonard described it, they When Herb and I returned from the UK we are born into, and some we create. This is the story of “recognized” each other instantly. in 2010, we wanted to find a sort of writ- the last stop on a pilgrimage, in a history of tribal migration ing retreat, a place I could work on PhD – from the sugar plantations of Hawaii, to an early precocity From my point of view, Harrison and Leonard were very much thesis and books and Herb could write in the cultural urbanity of San Francisco, within the canonical alike- intense, cerebral, reserved, joyful. sophistication of a classical Jesuit education, into the heady his memoirs and a second book, while Rebecca: Why a secret? still able to return home for meetings, freedom of convent life and out into the tight restrictive en- screenings and projects. Since my par- closure of English expatriate society in Canada, far back along Herb: Leonard was one of the most recognized people on the Star Trek ents were here and we’d been overseas Herb Solow and Dr Harrison the wild shores of Nova Scotia, right through the center of planet. More than any of the actors, he had been a long time, we decided to try to live here for a portion of the year. We found an Hollywood, into the living, breathing organism of Chassidism scrutinized, invaded, pursued, etc. since 1966. People wanted Solow in their Idaho retreat. enchanting place along the Greenbelt and were delighted with the quiet, the pri- and out again. And deep into the heart of Wales. to know everything about his life. Everyone wanted a piece of vacy, and this little house. That was nine years ago. I no longer belong to any one tribe. I am what my friend calls him. But he was a very private person and it was extremely dif- a ‘floater’ and what my novice mistress once called a pilgrim. ficult for him. I remember, as a young actor, he found it almost Do you have any other family? Rebecca: This I choose.” impossible to handle. He used to come see me about it, very troubled. Over the years, he managed to cope very well. But So, home is everywhere? Rebecca: he said his bond with Harrison was the one relationship in his Harrison: Everywhere and nowhere. life that was completely his, not part of his public life. It was sacred to him. He kept it from everyone, even Bill, though one 26 27 Head of Desilu Studios and Executive in Charge Forty years later … two dear friends. Leonard Nimoy and Herb Solow Herb Solow on the Greenbelt near Harrison & Herb Solow on the way Leonard Nimoy and Harrison Solow: “the best of Production of Star Trek, Herbert F. Solow watching their beloved Harrison the Solows’ Idaho retreat. to the Academy Awards. kept secret in the Star Trek world” - Herb Solow and his new actor, Leonard Nimoy at on stage at a Hollywood event. a Studio Birthday Party for Herb.

other friend knew about it. I also think he wanted to protect sound like a compliment. I used to hear it all the time among Rebecca: Can you talk about the first time Herb and you met? hero of a story/movie. Because of that, I don’t relate to the Harrison’s privacy. Our privacy. our director, producer, and exec friends describing certain word in the same way that Harrison does. I see actors playing Harrison: Ah. That was an explosive certainty. Within three actors. It seemed such a dull remark. But after living with a hero roles. To answer your question though, I’d say that we all So, we agreed to keep it private as long as he lived. Har- months, we were together for life. But first we engaged in a studio exec/producer/director for over a quarter century, I have people we admire but “hero” is a burdensome title to rison still hasn’t spoken about him publicly, four years after huge argument within five minutes of our introduction. can tell you that that’s about the highest compliment they can saddle anyone with. No one’s a hero all the time. I think most his death. Until recently, she never even told her sons. That’s give. It means everything to directors, producers, and studio Rebecca: What about? people can be heroic at times, in certain circumstances, some the extent to which she is trustworthy, because her sons are executives to have a reliable actor. It means to them that he maybe even most of the time in their lives. But, like Harrison, everything to her. Herb and Harrison: Star Trek. or she can be depended on for excellence. I believe that if they are, few people in the world will know Rebecca: So, what was he really like, Harrison? Rebecca: Why? about it. Herb: Excellence here also means showing up on time. Know- Harrison: He was very grateful. He was a loving husband, fa- ing your lines. Being professional. That was Bill. Herb: Let’s leave that for an event at which there is a question Rebecca: With many writers/artists, I find that there is an initial ther, grandfather and friend in the 25 years I knew him – and and answer session! It’s far too complicated to recount here. spark that grows into something big and bold and beautiful. Rebecca: What about your own experience of William Shat- the 50 that Herb knew him. Over the years, the essential Did you find this with your work? ner, Harrison? Harrison: It really isn’t. He’s being kind. Read his book. Leonard - sensitive, spiritual, serious, dedicated, talented, Harrison: That’s really for the reader, viewer, listener, appre- imaginative, ethical, profound, funny, sweet, fierce, poignant, Harrison: I don’t have much personal experience with William Rebecca: Who are your heroes? Harrison? hender to decide. Those works of mine that have garnered tender, furious at times – perhaps in different proportions - Shatner, though it seems like I have sometimes. Leonard talk- I don’t have heroes. Not in the sense of public fig- Harrison: accolades, achieved milestones or won awards did so because remained the same. Right, Herb? ed about him all the time. All my Star Trek friends—cast and ures. If I were forced by some authority, I can’t imagine to others judged them to be worthy, not me. crew—had a lot to say about him. I first met him on the set Herb: I’d say that was pretty much it, yes. name one, I’d have to say Mr. Rogers. of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country when I was there Herb: Well, certainly Star Trek is an example of something that I didn’t expect that! Why Fred Rogers? Rebecca: That’s a pretty general statement. Harrison - can with Gene and, about a year later, I had a rather exquisite Rebecca: was a simple idea that grew, because of a great many people, you give us any more of a hint about the inner man? Some- evening with him, which is chronicled on my Medium page Harrison: He made vulnerable people, especially children, into something global. But it isn’t up to the makers (writers/ thing that isn’t generally known? here: http://bit.ly/SolowShatner feel safe. I think we all feel safe if we know that good people actors/execs/producers) to proclaim it as such. are in the world, doing good things. The helpers, Mr. Rogers Harrison: No. Bill and I have dozens of mutual friends and acquaintances Rebecca: Did any of your work surprise you? called them. “Look for the helpers.” (The real helpers, not the and we’ve been at many of the same events, conventions, Rebecca: Harrison, the feud between Leonard Nimoy and clueless ones whose “help” consists of barging into people’s Harrison: Yes. My PhD Thesis. awards ceremonies, and parties, but I’ve always been with my William Shatner in the last years of Nimoy’s life is well known. lives and doing what they think is helping instead of actually own group and he with his. When my book, Gene Rodden- Herb: Yes. Star Trek. Also, a documentary I did with and about Can you tell us anything about that? helping.) Most of the people I would call heroes are not celeb- berry: The Last Conversation was published (under a different Elvis Presley. Harrison: I can tell you that it wasn’t a feud. Beyond that, I rities, but people who are part of my life, because I know what name and by three different publishers), I traveled on book Elvis Presley. That brings me to the incredible ar- have no comment. It’s not anything I can discuss except with they do, quietly, obscurely to help others – and I know what it Rebecca: tour, speaking at science fiction and Star Trek conventions ray of world-famous people who are, or were when they were Herb and Bill. costs them. Like Michael, our handyman. dozens of times a year. Bill was a guest star at some of these alive, your friends. Rebecca: Okay. What about Bill—or William—Shatner? Herb? conventions, but usually on different days. Rebecca: Your handyman? Herb: Not all the people we worked with were friends. Herb: Completely reliable. I always liked Bill. When we devel- That, with the notable exception above, was the extent of my Harrison: Yes. He makes us safe. Not because he was a Marine You’ve worked with many legends: Lucille Ball, Elvis oped the second Star Trek pilot, we knew it wasn’t going to acquaintance with William Shatner. who served in Iraq, which he was and did, but because life can Rebecca: Presley, John Wayne, Frank Sinatra, Sting, David Lean, Robert be easy to cast. We were still at a loss as to who Captain Kirk be a little scary when you can’t count on someone to fix things Rebecca: Can you tell our readers what your first impression Altman, among others. Not to mention the cast of Star Trek, was as a character. That question was answered when William that break and create solutions for safety and protection. To of Mr. Shatner was then, in three words? Mission Impossible, Mannix, and so many other shows and Shatner walked through the door. One of the best decisions do some of the things you can no longer do or perhaps you movies. Some became your friends. I made. Shatner was, by contract, the star of the show. How- Harrison: I assume I don’t need to include drop-dead gor- haven’t the talent or knowledge to do. Someone who lives ever, by his talent and personality, contract or not, he was a geous, since that would have been easily discernible by any- with the horrors of war in his head, all the while making some- Herb: True, though not just the cast members. Actors are only star. He was both dynamic and dependable, two qualities that one who saw him. Three words, then: Touching. Virile. Mag- one else’s day better, safer, happier. That’s Michael. And that’s one part of any production. Most of our friends are produc- don’t always go together in a star. Very talented guy. netic. a hero to me. ers, directors, writers, musicians, costumers, art directors, and more. In addition, there are Harrison’s writer friends, astro- Rebecca: Harrison? Rebecca: Touching? Rebecca: Herb – what about you? naut friends, science and science-fiction friends, intellectual Yes. Very. Harrison: Well, first let me qualify Herb’s “reliable.” It doesn’t Harrison: Herb: In my business, the word “hero” usually refers to the friends, etc. It was enlightening for us to introduce each other Rebecca: What does that mean? bilia. I’m an art glass expert so I’m involved in that world too. Abe Lastfogel. He was the president of the William Morris Harrison and I have a couple of businesses, which take a great Agency, where I began my career after graduating from Dart- Harrison: It means, simply, that I love them. It deal of management. mouth. He taught me respect for talent. He was always deeply means that I don’t want anything from them ex- cognizant of the great gift of the actor/artist and he passed cept their good company. I accept and delight Harrison: I’m writing a book of essays, letters really, though that on to me. When I first met Frank Sinatra, for example, in who they are - their idiosyncrasies as well my letters to friends are more like essays, which is what this long before we worked together, it was the influence or Mr. as their virtues. I don’t want to be part of their book consists of. Also, a collection of short stories. I’m about Lastfogel that helped me view him not just as a personality, family life. I don’t want to share their fame. I to shop my children’s book about a little boy who goes on but as an artist. The same with Katherine Hepburn, Judy Gar- don’t want to be seen with them in public. I a journey through his own consciousness. I’m an advisor to land, Edward G. Robinson, Lucille Ball, with whom I worked don’t want a romance. I don’t want to introduce students in my fields on their MA, MFA and PhD dissertations. very closely when I ran Desilu for her years later and many my family or other friends to them. I don’t want From time to time, I work with private and public institutes others. Because of Mr. Lastfogel, I’ve always had a special re- them to read my work, recommend me for any- and people on highly confidential projects. I give talks and spect for actors. thing, write a book with me, be in one of their lectures on my books and other work, on Fiction and Non-Fic- movies, suggest ideas for films to them or gar- tion Writing, Professional Writing, Star Trek, Theology, Science And Harrison, of course. Absolutely. But that’s a private mat- ner keepsakes from them. I have no agenda. Fiction, and my own journey through life. I sometimes serve on ter. I’m happy in myself. I listen more than I talk. advisory boards. I talk to my Mom every day and try to see her Rebecca: What about you, Harrison? But when I talk, I tell the truth. Even if it’s diffi- as often as possible. I deal with business, work on my family’s cult. And I keep their secrets. Absolutely. I love charitable trust, look after the animals, and try to keep the Harrison: There’s a different answer to that for every age and them. That’s it. domestic ship sailing smoothly. stage of life and every field and culture of which I am or have been a part, every quality of life that I hold dear. I’ll name a Is that your definition of friendship? What do you do for fun? Rebecca: Rebecca: few: It’s my definition of a friend. If that We don’t have fun. Harrison: Harrison & Herb: Chronologically: My parents, the church, the scholars (nuns dynamic is mutual, then, yes, it’s my definition Harrison: Let me qualify that. Our work is our fun. We work and priests) who taught me, my cousin Marsha. Miss Timoveev, of friendship. in the entertainment industry. Our idea of fun is not enter- my first librarian. A Franciscan friar I met at age 14 and to whom Rebecca: What about you, Herb? tainment. We’ve always had fun with the peripheral activities I remain profoundly close today, Brother Joachim Grant. My associated with our work and our religious and civic commu- brilliant professor whom I met at age 22 and is still one of my Herb: Oh, I’m very different from Harrison. I nities, such as attending premiers, the Academy Awards and dearest, closest friends, Dr Christopher Terry. He completely don’t have her patience for relationships. Or concerts. We see friends and support our actor friends when transformed my intellectual life. My boys, both as children and the inclination. Friendship is a vocation to Har- they’re in plays in town. I love these events because there are as adults, with their wisdom(s), The incomparable Arthur C. rison. A very serious thing. I’m not that inter- always so many deeply talented and creative people all in one Clarke. Majestic Canada, where I lived for 20 years. A couple ested in developing friendships. Harrison is my room. It’s exhilarating. I have an eclectic cornucopia of inter- of rabbis. Leonard Nimoy of course. Herb, which goes without Best Friend. We’ve always had a great circle of ests that absorb me, but they aren’t really describable. Like saying. My lawyers are big influencers. I love my lawyers. The colleagues, acquaintances – and some close Herb and Harrison Solow enjoying “not having fun” (Harrison’s my perfection collection and speech ironing and illuminated land and people of Wales. So many more extraordinary peo- friends - mostly creative people, some execs or shirt says LLAP—Live Long and Prosper—a gift from Leonard manuscripts. Those are fun. I love to swim. I take courses at ple. business people from the studios or networks and various art- Nimoy’s granddaughter, Dani Nimoy Schwartz, to honor Harvard EdX, - Copyright Law, The History of the Book, Greek ists, Harrison’s scientists and academics, and people in other Mostly though, I’ve been influenced by books - from Aristotle her beloved Poppi and his friendship with Harrison.) Heroes, and Justice so far. Not everyone’s idea of fun but it is fields. I’ve been happy with that. Just my wife, those friends, to Anita Brookner. Hundreds and hundreds of books. Every mine. our work, the kids and grandkids. That’s all I need. day, throughout my entire life or at least since I was three, to the friends we had before we met. At our parties you might Herb: I make jewelry. I paint. I interview prospective students when my mother taught me to read. As Walt Whitman, a major Rebecca: Do you have any friends in Idaho? find a neurosurgeon in intense discussion with an Academy for Dartmouth. A few other things. We both love putting deals influence, said: “I contain multitudes.” Award winning film editor, both discussing incisions. Or one Herb: No. together. of Harrison’s astronauts pointing out inconsistencies in sci- We all do. We’re all, to appropriate Tennyson, “a part of all we ence fiction space walks to a well-known science fiction writer. Harrison: We know some lovely people here but no, no real Harrison: We like baseball. We used to go to Dodger Stadium have met.” friends. We haven’t had the opportunity, really. At first, we frequently. Before I met Herb, I went with friends as the guest Great evenings. As I continue to sit with Herb and Harrison, sipping strong traveled all the time and all we wanted was a retreat from of Tommy LaSorda. After Herb and I married, we went as the coffee and enjoying not just the exchange, but the energy and Rebecca: Harrison, your personal friends are equally illustri- an extremely busy life. Now we travel less, but it still seems guest of one of Herb’s friends, the Vice President of Commu- synergy between the two of them, a squirrel approaches their ous; Isaac Asimov, Sir Arthur C. Clarke, Harlan Ellison, Robert there are too few hours in the day. Real friendship takes time. nications for the team. But I don’t like sitting in a VIP box at Star Trek back door, and, I kid you not, taps on the window. Jastrow, Leonard Nimoy, and other people. We have some very kind and cordial neighbors. I suspect our a game, eating a meal served under silver. To me, that’s not a Harrison: Not all of them are illustrious. Some live very ob- dearest neighbor, Kevin, is actually an angel in disguise. We’re ball game. I like (veggie) hot dogs and lemonade in the stands. Herb: He’s ready to eat. blessed in that regard. It seems recently, though, that a couple scure lives in monasteries and convents or tiny towns in Wales. Anyway, I am a Giants fan, having grown up in the Bay Area so Harrison rises and gets a few peanuts, still in shell, and hands of people are potential friends. It’s too early to tell yet. But Or hamlets in Nova Scotia or Alpine villages in Switzerland. I’m not altogether popular at Dodger Stadium! one to the squirrel. He takes it in his paws and runs off and I But yes, I’ve been incredibly blessed with the friendship of that would be nice. Rebecca: Who has influenced you the most? chuckle, feeling immersed into a Snow White scene—some- some of the most creative and fascinating public figures in the Rebecca: What are you each doing now? thing magical and peaceful and beautiful—as our time to- There was a vice principal of my high school who saw a world. Herb: gether continues unfolding. Herb: Well, right now, it’s Academy season. The season starts future for me. She wrote a letter about me to Dartmouth, com- Herb: In Malibu, most of our neighbors were in the business. in October and continues through the end of December. Films mending my talents and industry, asking them to consider me Dr Harrison Solow offers interesting perspectives, especially Off the top of my head - Steven Spielberg, Robert Downey Jr, arrive almost daily, and we suspend all other watching as we for entry into the college. I hadn’t asked her to do this. In fact, on Twitter. You can follow her on social media at the following Martin Sheen, Cher, David Letterman, Linda Hamilton, James screen these films. This takes an enormous amount of time. I didn’t know anything about it until afterward, but it changed handles: Cameron, Genevieve Bujould, Barbra Streisand, a few charac- We watch and evaluate about 80 to 120 nominated films, doc- my life. I attended Dartmouth. Twitter: @harrisonsolow ter actors - all lived on or near our street on Point Dume. Bob umentaries and foreign film entries for the Academy Awards. The great poet, Robert Frost, whom I used to serve tea at the Medium: https://medium.com/@harrisonsolow Dylan was our next-door neighbor at one time. It’s not just Usually, when in LA, we go to the Academy or Director’s Guild local drugstore counter in Hanover after he had retired from Academia.edu: https://drharrisonsolow.academia.edu/ working with well-known people that brings one into contact. theatre to screen them. When we’re out of town, the studios teaching at Dartmouth. Because of him, I learned to stop and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/harrisonsolow Sometimes it’s just the street you live on. send their entries in various categories to us. Harrison and I think and listen to life in a way I had not done before. My Se- (Dr. Solow is on Facebook but doesn’t post publicly so doesn’t discuss every aspect of the films and then I cast my vote. I’m on Rebecca: Harrison, so many famous people consider you their nior Dissertation was on Robert Frost and his work. allow Followers, just “Friends”) committees in LA. I consult on film projects. I’m writing a book trusted friend. Why do you think that is? Herb Solow isn’t on social media at all and never has been. ¢ about my life in the business and another story which will also Hank Greenberg, the star player of the Detroit Tigers, who Harrison: Because I am one. be a screenplay. I authenticate television and movie memora- showed me that anything is possible. 30 31