Fourth Session, 41st Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday, May 13, 2019 Morning Sitting Issue No. 254

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

Fourth Session, 41st Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture...... Hon. Attorney General...... Hon. , QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...... Hon. Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Minister of Health ...... Hon. Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology...... Hon. Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Minister of Municipal Afairs and Housing...... Hon. Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... , QC Leader of the Tird Party ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker...... Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Joan Isaacs Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Craig James Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...... Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Parliamentary Counsel ...... S. Suzie Seo Sergeant-at-Arms ...... Gary Lenz Acting Sergeant-at-Arms...... Randall Ennis, MMM, CD ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission ...... Simon Gibson Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Abbotsford South ...... Hon. Darryl Plecas Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Abbotsford West ...... Michael de Jong, QC Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Boundary-Similkameen...... Linda Larson Begg, Garry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Guildford –Deer Lake ...... Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds ...... Raj Chouhan Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Brar, Jagrup (NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Burnaby North...... Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)...... Surrey South Cariboo-Chilcotin...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... –West End Cariboo North ...... Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Chilliwack...... John Martin Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack-Kent...... Laurie Troness Chow, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fraserview Columbia River–Revelstoke...... Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke –Burke Mountain...... Joan Isaacs Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Langley East Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Hon. Selina Robinson Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Courtenay-Comox ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ...... Cowichan Valley ...... Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Delta North ...... de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West ...... Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Esquimalt-Metchosin...... D’Eith, Bob (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Fraser-Nicola...... Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kamloops–North Tompson...... Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...... Stikine Kamloops–South Tompson ...... Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Kelowna–Lake Country...... Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Kelowna-Mission...... Steve Tomson Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Kelowna West...... Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kootenay East ...... Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)...... Vernon-Monashee Kootenay West ...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Langford–Juan de Fuca...... Hon. John Horgan Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Langley...... Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Langley East ...... Glumac, Rick (NDP)...... –Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Bob D’Eith Heyman, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Hon. Lisa Beare Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca Mid Island–Pacifc Rim ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Nechako Lakes ...... Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Queensborough Nelson-Creston...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)...... Delta North New Westminster ...... Hon. Judy Darcy Kang, Anne (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Coast...... Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)...... Shuswap North Island ...... Hon. Claire Trevena Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen North Vancouver–Lonsdale ...... Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara North Vancouver–Seymour ...... Jane Tornthwaite Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ...... Courtenay-Comox Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Parksville-Qualicum ...... Ma, Bowinn (NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Peace River North...... Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) ...... Nanaimo Peace River South...... Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Penticton...... Martin, John (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack Port Coquitlam ...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–North Tompson Port Moody–Coquitlam ...... Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...... Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Mackenzie ...... Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Prince George–Valemount...... Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond North Centre ...... Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)...... Delta South Richmond-Queensborough ...... Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.)...... Abbotsford South Richmond South Centre...... Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Richmond-Steveston...... Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)...... Saanich South Saanich North and the Islands...... Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich South...... Hon. Lana Popham Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Shuswap ...... Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond South Centre Skeena ...... Rice, Jennifer (NDP)...... North Coast Stikine ...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Cloverdale...... Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)...... Skeena Surrey-Fleetwood ...... Jagrup Brar Routledge, Janet (NDP)...... Burnaby North Surrey–Green Timbers ...... Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Guildford ...... Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Surrey-Panorama...... Hon. Jinny Sims Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey South...... Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Whalley...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Sims, Hon. Jinny (NDP) ...... Surrey-Panorama Surrey–White Rock...... Tracy Redies Singh, Rachna (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Fairview ...... Hon. George Heyman Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–False Creek...... Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. George Chow Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver-Hastings ...... Hon. Shane Simpson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Kensington ...... Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Kingsway ...... Hon. Adrian Dix Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Langara ...... Michael Lee Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ...... Hon. Melanie Mark Tomson, Steve (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–Point Grey...... Hon. David Eby, QC Tornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver-Quilchena ...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Troness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Vancouver–West End...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vernon-Monashee...... Eric Foster Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill ...... Hon. Carole James Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Swan Lake ...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano ...... Yap, John (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ......

Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS

Monday, May 13, 2019 Morning Sitting Page

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements...... 9183 Alt-right movement R. Singh T. Wat Vaping T. Stone B. D’Eith Living wage R. Leonard L. Reid My frst job I. Paton S. Malcolmson

Private Members’ Motions ...... 9191 Motion 13 — Opposition to conversion therapy N. Simons J. Tornthwaite S. Furstenau D. Davies J. Rice P. Milobar D. Routley M. Stilwell S. Chandra Herbert M. Bernier M. Elmore

9183

MONDAY, MAY 13, 2019 “Also, an opinion poll by Angus Reid showed that 88 percent of Canadian respondents found prejudice between people of diferent races and nationalities to be a cause for concern. Racism toward Indi- Te House met at 10:02 a.m. genous peoples concerned 79 percent of the respondents, and 70 per- cent were concerned about anti-Semitism. In B.C., more respondents [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] found white-supremacist attitudes to be a cause for great concern.” When I was doing my research for this statement and Routine Business looked at these statistics, I just don’t really have words for how I felt about it. Tat’s one of the reasons I’m making this Prayers. statement today, because it is a concern. We all need to be very, very concerned. Orders of the Day What happened in Christchurch — we cannot see that as an isolated incident. We know that globally, we are seeing the Private Members’ Statements phenomenon of hatred, especially hatred against our Muslim brothers and sisters in the form of Islamophobia, but also ALT-RIGHT MOVEMENT hatred in the form of homophobia and anti-Semitism. Also, hatred against immigrants in general has been on the rise. If R. Singh: Today I rise in the House to make a statement we want to say that it’s just targeted at one community, we are on a very serious issue that we are facing globally. Tat is basically not addressing the real issue. If I’m not a Muslim the alt-right movement. We know that in recent years hate and I’m not being attacked, that does not mean that it might crimes, the rise in white nationalism, has increased. We have not happen to me tomorrow. seen the surge, not just in Canada but all over the world. Another very serious thing came to light just in recent months. We had a very important function, a South Asian [R. Chouhan in the chair.] community event that happened in Surrey, which happens every year. Tat is our big Vaisakhi celebration. Tis year, at Just in February, we had a really horrible incident in the Vaisakhi celebration in Surrey, more than 500,000 people New Zealand, in Christchurch, where almost 50 people participated. It was a very, very good event. I think all walks died and more than 50 got injured. We know that the per- of people participated in it. son who did it was infuenced by this alt-right movement. Something that was very concerning came to light that He got infuenced mostly on line by all the material that evening. Vaisakhi happened on April 20, and there were was being spread. some Facebook posts that came out, using some threats, like: I remember, in 2016, when the election was happening “Having such a crowd, what a pressure cooker bomb could across the border and Donald Trump was running, the kind have done in that crowd.” I’m very glad that it was taken so of rhetoric that we were hearing from south of the border. seriously by members of the community, but I also want to We saw some incidents happening here in Canada, especially applaud the member for Delta North for reaching out to the in B.C., when racist fyers were being distributed in diferent Surrey RCMP,and I really want to applaud the Surrey RCMP communities — in such a beautiful, multicultural province. for taking very strong action as well. I was quite concerned, as a person who takes a lot of pas- Just afer that, on April 27, we saw a report coming out sion on this issue, a person who has always talked about of , a national daily, which talked about racism very, very openly. I remember organizing a rally, in the rise of the far-right in Canada. Te report says about the fall of 2016, about this hatred that was happening. I these people: remember talking to people, and they said: “Uh, no. It is not “Tey come from all walks of life. Tey are tradesmen, soldiers, a that big an issue. Maybe it is an issue south of the border. student teacher, a fnancial analyst, an aspiring lawyer, among others, Maybe it’s an issue in other parts of the world, but in Canada, and they are in every province, in communities large and small. Tey gather on the Internet to strategize and seek pathways into main- we are such a multicultural, peace-loving country. Tis is not stream politics. Tey are anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, Islamophobic, an issue.” sexist and racist. Tey are young and radicalized. Tey are the new [10:05 a.m.] far-right in Canada. Today I’d really hoped that they had been right. But we [10:10 a.m.] know how this issue has become even more prominent in “Te Globe and Mail has obtained a trove of 150,000 messages recent years. I just want to give some stats: posted between February 2017 and early 2018 that reveal the private “Recent data from the polling frm Angus Reid has shown that Ca- communications of a loosely aligned….” nadians are ‘alive to’ the threat of white supremacy in this country, and fgures from Statistics Canada found a sharp uptick in hate Deputy Speaker: Tank you, Member. crimes in recent years. Police-reported hate crime in Canada had been on the rise for a few years before taking a sharp upswing in 2017, according to the latest data from Statistics Canada. T. Wat: As the opposition critic for multiculturalism, it is “Tere were 2,073 reported incidents that year, up from 1,295 in my honour to respond to this very important statement put 2014; 1,362 in 2015; and 1,409 in 2016. Te biggest increases in 2017 forth by the member for Surrey–Green Timbers. were in crimes related to race, ethnicity and religion. 9184 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019

Charlottesville, Quebec City, Christchurch, Pittsburgh — R. Singh: I really would like to thank the member for these four amazing cities are united by one harrowing point. Richmond North Centre for her take on this very serious Tey all have been sites of violence perpetrated by the so- issue. I totally agree with her that we, as a society, need to called alt-right. Tis reactionary movement has brought take action to deal with this issue. together some of the worst elements of a political force: [10:15 a.m.] white supremacists, violent misogynists, anti-Semitism — When I was doing this statement, my intentions were, lunatics that were normally considered so marginal and so obviously, to tell about the stats and about the issue that we few that we thought we would never have to seriously con- are facing but also what we, as leaders, need to do to face this sider them as a political force. and to help prevent this kind of movement and this kind of Yet in some countries, like Germany, Sweden, Greece and, hatred, which is being spread in our own province as well. most recently, Spain, parties infuenced by these movements Experts also say that facing systemic racism head-on can have gained seats in parliament. Tese parties generally, help stop it. though not always, tone down the blatant racism, anti- I’m really glad for the measures that world leaders have Semitism and Islamophobia common to the movement. But taken. Especially, I really want to say a few words about they still signal to their supporters that they have not aban- the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern — her doned their ideals and push for policies that would drastic- stance and her message of unity and solidarity that she gave ally limit legal immigration and would prevent public afer the Christchurch attack. She has also rallied all the expressions of cultures not considered to be appropriate by world leaders to…. She wants Facebook, Google, Twitter and the movement. all the social media to help slow the spread of the violent Te alt-right stands for everything we don’t stand for. rhetoric that is being put on line. Tey want to spread hatred and mistrust; we want love and If it comes to our province…. I’m really glad of the stance understanding. Tey want to go backwards; we want to move of our government and what we are doing by establishing the ahead. B.C. has long been proud to be a multicultural society. Human Rights Commission, which was missing from B.C. As the walls of this House know, we have taken responsibility for so many years. We know that education is the key role. for our failings in the past. Most important to me was the A lot of times when these things happen, it is coming out of formal apology to Chinese Canadians issued by the previous ignorance, when young minds get lured by discontent, by the government in 2014 for injustices they had sufered at the on-line rhetoric, the white-supremacist rhetoric that is being hands of more close-minded governments. put on line. We really need to guide them and educate them It bears mentioning that multiculturalism, though rallied properly. We need to work together and not have this kind of against by the alt-right, contains so many facets and oppor- hate against any community. tunities to learn and understand the world and people Really, I’m very thankful that we have the…. Whereas around us. One of these types of teachings is that of tra- we have the world leaders like Jacinda, we have the leaders ditional Chinese Confucian culture, which values harmony, here in Canada, too, with the statements that came from the family and respect for elders and teachers in the community. Canadian Prime Minister, the opposition leader and also the In Confucian thinking, harmony refers to a society where NDP leader. Tey are very signifcant in these times — espe- everyone fulfls their responsibilities and creates a harmoni- cially the statement given by our Premier, John Horgan, afer ous situation where the whole country prospers. the Christchurch attack. Modern Chinese society tries to maintain harmony between humankind and nature, between people and soci- Deputy Speaker: No names, Member. No names. ety, between members of diferent communities and between Continue. mind and body. Tese teachings, though interpreted dif- ferently over centuries, mean that someone bent on being R. Singh: Okay. I’m sorry. By the Premier of the province unharmonious, like members of the alt-right and their creed, — the way he talked about Islamophobia and white suprem- stand in the way of prosperity and growth as people, as a acy and said that they have no role in our province. nation and as communities — persons who seek to coexist harmoniously with all others. Tat is why the alt-right move- Deputy Speaker: Now you can conclude. ment is so wrong. By its very basis, it is unharmonious. We need to fght for and strengthen our belief that Canada R. Singh: Also, we are living in a very, very beautiful should be a multicultural society that exists harmoniously. province, and we have to keep it. We need to support and stand up for people who are targeted by members of the alt-right. We need to instil in our young VAPING people values of a society that values diversity and multiple points of view. If we do this, we will be able to keep this men- T. Stone: Tis morning it gives me a great deal of pleasure ace at bay. We owe it to our families, our friends, our co- to rise and to speak in this House, again, about the emerging workers and neighbours to do just that. public health challenge that we see in our province and, I look forward to the member’s response. indeed, we’re seeing right across North America. Tat is Monday, May 13, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9185 the rapid increase in vaping or e-cigarette use amongst our afer study indicate are not the favours that are chosen by youth. As everyone in this House knows, e-cigarettes, or vap- adults. Tese are favours that are very popular with youth. ing, as it’s called by many, is an emerging public health issue, Secondly, we do believe that we need to limit the retail particularly as it relates to youth. access to these products — make it more difcult for our Now, I want to start of by being very clear here that I kids to be able to access these tools. My bill proposed tough- do recognize, and I think my colleagues do recognize — I er retail controls by limiting the sales to vape shops, tobacco think most British Columbians do recognize — that there stores and pharmacies. Is that a perfect solution? No, it’s not. is a role for e-cigarette use as a smoking cessation tool for But again, it’s an attempt to try and restrict access to these adults who are trying to stop traditional smoking. Tere is products, to keep them out of the hands of our kids. My bill no question about that. Te problem, however, is that we provided tougher penalties for non-compliance with all of have estimates that suggest that upwards of 30 percent of the above. our youth in grades ten through 12 in our middle and high In addition to the measures in my bill, we do believe that schools here in British Columbia are engaging in vaping there needs to be more action on the part of the federal gov- on a regular basis. ernment. We are cautiously optimistic that the federal gov- Te stories that I heard prior to the private member’s bill ernment is in the process of consultations to develop new I introduced a number of weeks ago, and the stories I have regulations, particularly as they relate to advertising of vap- heard since, are quite telling. I have heard from many par- ing-related products where these products might be seen by ents. I have heard from many teachers. I have heard from youth. Tis will include ads at both physical and on-line administrators. I have heard from the B.C. Teachers Feder- points of sale where youth are allowed to shop as well as ation, which was pleased to publicly come out and support mass platforms like billboards and public transit. the kinds of changes that I’m proposing in the private mem- Te folks who are selling these products wouldn’t be ber’s bill which I introduced to this House. allowed to air within 30 minutes of any television or radio [10:20 a.m.] show meant for youth nor publish in any print publications Everyone is united in wanting to do more to protect the and social media platforms accessible to youth. Tere would health of our children. Te simple reality is this. While we also be a requirement for health warnings, regardless of have done a very good job in this province at really driving whether the product includes nicotine. down tobacco use, particularly amongst youth, we see a very Te federal government is looking at the prevalence of the signifcant increase in vaping or e-cigarette use amongst our use of these products with our youth and what more can be youth. In the United States, the U.S. Surgeon General just last done to keep them out of the hands of our youth. Again, the December declared e-cigarette use, with respect to youth in challenge is that things tend to move fairly slowly in gov- the United States, as an emerging public health epidemic. ernment in general, particularly at the federal level. So while Now, more troubling is the reality that recent studies, we’re encouraged by the activity there, we are hopeful that including one just a couple of weeks ago here in Canada, the provincial government here in British Columbia will take suggested that most teens, most of our youth who are some interim steps to focus on this. engaged in e-cigarette use, aren’t aware of the fact that these I will quickly run out of time here. I’ll have a few more products, more ofen than not, include highly addictive minutes afer the next speaker. I do want to talk for a nicotine. moment about the need for more resources to also be inves- Te reality of this fast-growing, fast-emerging industry ted in programs in our schools to focus on prevention, to is that these products, these e-cigarettes — pod mods, as focus on supporting youth when they come up against that they’re now called — are very sleek. Tey’re very small. judgment call, that decision point on whether to engage in Tey’re easy to conceal. Tey don’t have any smell. You can the use of these products or not. get customized skins for your e-cigarette, your vaporizer, just Tere are some very good examples of these kinds of like you can get a customized skin for a cell phone. Te juice prevention programs, like Preventure, a program that has that is used in these products is highly, highly addictive but been piloted in a number of schools, particularly up in Ver- also comes in kid-friendly favours like bubble gum and cot- non, and has resulted in some pretty signifcant declines in ton candy and melon and cream. the usage of these kinds of products. We also would be call- All of the above makes e-cigarette use, vaping, very ing for some additional support to help our youth who have attractive to our youth. So more must be done to keep these become addicted to nicotine. I’ll have more to say about that products out of the hands of our kids, all the while recogniz- in a moment. ing that these products do play a role as a smoking-cessation [10:25 a.m.] tool for adults. Te bill that I introduced weeks ago would ban the sale B. D’Eith: I did want to thank the member for Kamloops– of favoured products. At the very least, I hope that gov- South Tompson for bringing this very important issue to ernment here in British Columbia and the federal govern- the House. I really believe that this is an area where I can ment will move on banning those sweet, dessert-type fa- see a great deal of potential cooperation between all three vours, those kid-friendly favours which study afer study 9186 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019 parties, especially in relation to vaping products for children the new physical and health education curriculum actually and youth. allows teachers to lead lesson plans and have discussions Tis is a relatively new phenomenon, and it means that the and engage students in this discussion. I think that’s really law has to evolve with the changing times. I know that quite important. I think, as the member said, that we do need to a lot of work was done — including by the Minister of Men- work together as a Legislature and include young people, tal Health and Addictions, who is in the House right now — principals, vice-principals, the B.C. Teachers Federation, the in 2016, around favoured cigarettes. Confederation of Parent Advisory Councils, for example, Vaping is a very similar issue, because of the use, as the local communities and the students themselves to ensure member said, of favoured juices that are clearly meant to that we deal with this head-on. entice young people to start vaping. Te problem, of course, Now, we do have the laws and regulations from 2016, but is that children and young people are getting products on this is an evolving matter. It’s my understanding, from talk- line and from non-approved sources. So they have no idea, ing to the Minister of Health, that the federal government really, what’s in these e-liquids, whether it’s chemicals or is now reviewing this and is going to be proposing some nicotine. Tat’s very alarming to me — to think that B.C. changes to legislation and regulation. Once that’s done, the youth are potentially inhaling harmful products that they Minister of Health will review the present provincial legisla- don’t even know are there. In addition to this, the addition tion and regulations. of nicotine makes many e-liquids highly addictive, and many I wanted to really thank the member for bringing this up. young users of vape products have no idea that there’s actu- It’s something that hits me at home, hits many of us around ally nicotine in their product. our communities. I really appreciate him bringing this state- Of course, as the member said, vape was originally sold ment to the House today. He certainly has my support in as a way for smokers to wean of cigarettes. As a tool to terms of trying to tackle this issue head-on. battle this, in the arsenal of trying to get people to quit, [10:30 a.m.] it has actually been a very positive thing. Te problem is that vaping can do the exact opposite for young people T. Stone: I do want to thank the member for Maple because it’s the perfect delivery system for nicotine. What’s Ridge–Mission for his very thoughtful comments on this happening is that vaping is becoming a gateway to actually topic. If we can’t all unite behind strategies and initiatives to smoking cigarettes. best protect the health of our kids, then I don’t know what Tis is exactly what happened to one of my sons. We we can unite on. I’m very pleased to hear his comments on discouraged him from vaping — he and his friends were behalf of him and his colleagues. all vaping — but he was convinced it was safe and did it I was indicating, in my previous remarks, that more anyway. For a while that’s what he did, but then he started resources are needed to invest in prevention programs, to smoking cigarettes. While we’ve got him to quit the cigar- invest in awareness programs in our schools. Tere are a ettes, he’s still vaping. number of pilot programs that have proven to be highly I think that in this day and age — with everything that efective. Te problem is that they are only pilots in a very we know about smoking, in particular — to have something limited number of our middle and high schools across this in the market that’s actually leading kids to smoke cigarettes province. is really unacceptable. I know the problem is of course that One such program, known as Preventure, is a program kids, the teenagers, think they’re invincible at this point. I that is all about focusing on that link between addictions had to remind my children that my grandmother and my and risk factors. Tis program works by having our youth aunt are both not with us today because they smoked cigar- self-report their personality style. Ten those students who ettes. Tey both ended up having ten to 20 years shaved of identify with one of four key traits are invited to a workshop their lives. Tey didn’t even get to meet my grandmother, session where they learn how their personality afects their their great-grandmother, because of this. behaviour. Tose four key personality traits are impulsiv- Also, because it’s a relatively new phenomenon, I think a ity…. Te second would be thrill seeking or sensation seek- lot more work has to be done to study vaping. If you listen to ing, the third is sensitivity to anxiety, and the fourth is hope- the tobacco companies…. I know that on the Finance Com- lessness. Tis program has been in place in Vernon for a mittee, we heard from some tobacco lobbyists, and they were couple of years now and has actually resulted in a pretty sig- really excited about how safe vaping was. Of course, the next nifcant decline in a range of addictions in the schools where day the Cancer Society came in and said the exact oppos- it’s been deployed. ite. I think I’ll tend to side with the Canadian Cancer Society We need resources to invest in these kinds of programs. on this, and other jurisdictions that are showing that vape is In addition to that, we need more resources to support our really potentially hazardous. youth who are already addicted. I have heard from a number Of course, vaping actually isn’t allowed on school grounds of parents who have said: “It’s great that you’re focusing on right now, but that’s an enforcement issue. doing more to prevent the use of e-cigarettes with our youth, What do we need to do to get young people to stop vap- but what about our youth who are already addicted?” ing? Well, I think education is really important. I know that We need more resources available, particularly focused Monday, May 13, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9187 on youth — resources like the smoking cessation clinic at ment or for your kids’ future education or owning a home. Vancouver General Hospital, which does have an accepted Afer expenses are all added up, then taxes, credits, deduc- treatment program. Tat’s nicotine replacement therapy. Te tions and subsidies are taken into account to determine the government does pay for 12 weeks of a nicotine patch. Tat living wage. Tat living wage is the hourly amount that two was actually implemented under our former government, full-time working parents each need to earn in order to sup- back in 2011. port those basic needs for a family of four, including one Te problem is that the usage of e-cigarettes amongst our child age four and the other age seven. youth is far outpacing the capacity of these clinics to actually Why this family unit? Well, it’s representative because help our youth. So we need more clinics. We need more in British Columbia, more than three-quarters of families front-line resources. with children are headed by couples, and over half of them Last but not least, industry needs to step up here. Industry have two or more kids. It’s important to note that just over needs to step up and speak with one voice. Industry needs 50 percent of B.C.’s children living in poverty live in two- to be more proactive. Industry needs to look at tougher age parent families. Te numbers really are staggering when verifcation technology for their on-line sites to prevent sales you consider that 40 percent of people living below the on line to kids. Industry needs to step up, like a number of poverty line are working. No matter how you slice it, as companies, such as Walmart and Walgreens and Rite Aid in the CCPA report says: “Te story of child poverty is very the United States, that have made the decision to stop selling much a story of low wages.” favoured e-cigarette products to youth. Te CCPA economists report that the decrease to the liv- If we all pull together — government, parents and ing wage is due in large part to our government’s recent industry — we will tackle this emerging public health epi- investments in child care, which are saving families thou- demic for the good of our children for generations to come. sands of dollars this year. We are moving in the right direc- tion to make life more afordable. LIVING WAGE Courtney from the Comox Valley, where there is a city named Courtenay, is a single mom with two children age R. Leonard: I rise today to speak about measuring the fve and under. She says spending less on daycare means she’s success of our government’s actions to make life more aford- able to spend more money on children’s activities and to save able for the people of British Columbia. We all hear facts for the future. She shared how she has friends who were on and fgures about how much funding goes to support various the fence about even having children simply because of the policies and programs, and other numbers are tracked. But expense of child care. what really matters to people who have been struggling for a Lisa L. expressed relief over family budgeting when her generation to make ends meet and to those who have fallen child care centre became one of the prototypes for child care further and further behind is whether they are experiencing that will cost no more than $200 a month per child. With a more afordable life. one parent working full-time and another part-time, she So it’s with great satisfaction that last week we heard that said, raising two children, paying a mortgage, bills, everyday independent, third-party economists at the Canadian Centre expenses and groceries all add up quickly. “Since the proto- for Policy Alternatives, also known as the CCPA, attributed type program has begun, we have felt less stressed about the two of our government’s biggest actions to the frst decline monthly budgeting. We have a little extra money for savings, in the living wage in 11 years. Firstly, this government’s his- fxing something or a fun family outing.” toric investments in child care and, secondly, the 50 percent Tis year’s report that the living wage went down by $1.31 reduction in medical services premiums are credited with an hour in the Comox Valley and by similar amounts in oth- playing a major part in making life more afordable for er communities throughout B.C. is welcome news. Despite young families. increasing costs of living on many fronts, like rents up as In the Comox Valley, the living wage went down 8 percent much as 4 percent, heating and electricity up, gas and insur- to $15.28 an hour. But what does this mean? What is a living ance up, food and clothing up…. But as the CCPA report wage? It is one measuring tool to assess afordability, and the suggests, the savings from this government’s new child care CCPA has been calculating it since 2008. program more than ofset the other rising family expenses. Te calculation begins with determining the expenses of As the CCPA report says, the core takeaway from this everyday living. It is region-specifc, because some costs, like year’s calculation is that public investments to improve child rent, vary from place to place. Te list is comprehensive care afordability are making a diference in helping families but modest and includes shelter — that’s rent — utilities, with young children, whether cost increases in other areas. Internet, communications and even home contents insur- Afer a generation — basically, for the frst time in living ance. Ten there’s food, clothing and footwear, transporta- memory for young low-income and middle-income families tion, child care, medical and dental health care, parents’ edu- — people are beginning to experience a bit more afordable cation and other household expenses. living and, with it, some freedom from the stresses of [10:35 a.m.] strained family budgets. I did say it was modest. It doesn’t include saving for retire- Karen, an early childhood educator from the Comox Val- 9188 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019 ley, can now aford to upgrade her education, and she and You noted earlier that I certainly made the point clearly her husband are saving to buy a home for their family of four. that a living wage is supposed to support healthy child devel- Te CCPA report also credits the 50 percent reduction in opment principles. Tat’s what is the stated defnition. MSP premiums as contributing to the reduction in the living Our infant development and supported child develop- wage. We know that afer 16 years of unbridled rising costs, ment programs serve over 750 children and families every our government has just begun its work to put people frst. year. A loss of just one consultant to a neighbouring agency Te full elimination of MSP premiums next January will be will mean a loss of service to 50 families in Richmond, in one of the biggest middle-class cuts in B.C. history and will my riding. Tis decision will impact social service organiz- save families up to $1,800 every year. ations across the province. Approximately 600 agencies will We are introducing the child opportunity beneft too. not receive the low-wage redress for some or all of their Families with kids up to the age of 19 will have more wiggle employees. Te total number of employees that will receive room in their budgets. the low-wage redress is approximately 13,000, compared to We can’t control all living expenses, but we can make more than 14,000 community and social service employees a diference. Our government is making diferent choices, that will receive the low-wage redress. choices to make life more afordable, and giving people What would you do with 800 additional dollars in your opportunities that they didn’t dare to dream about. pocket, Mr. Speaker? Save for something special? What could you buy with $800? Something for your mom? Some- L. Reid: I’m pleased to respond this morning to the state- thing for your kids? Te answer is that it would be your ment put forward by the member for Courtenay-Comox. choice. Since April 1, infant development workers and sup- Te living wage defnition — this one comes from Living ported child development workers in our province have 800 Wage Canada: fewer dollars in their pockets than their unionized counter- “Aliving wage is not the same as minimum wage, which is the legal parts. Tey absolutely deserve better. Tere is no question. minimum for all employers. Te living wage sets a higher standard. I believe that hypocrisy is alive and well on the govern- A living wage refects what earners in a family need to bring home, ment benches. In fact, I’m amazed that they have the gall based on the actual costs of living in a specifc community. to talk about living wages when they are reducing wages for [10:40 a.m.] thousands of workers in British Columbia today. “Te living wage is a call to private and public sector employees to pay wages to both direct and contract employees that are sufcient R. Leonard: Tank you to the member for Richmond to provide the basics to families with children. A living wage enables working families to have sufcient income to cover reasonable costs; South Centre for her comments. I’d just like to add that the promotes social inclusion; supports healthy child development prin- living wage calculation was spawned afer the contracts of ciples; ensures that families are not under severe fnancial stress; health workers were ripped up and people were laid of in engenders signifcant, wide-ranging community support; and is a the thousands. So this is a really important aspect of how we vehicle for promoting the benefts of social programs such as infant development and supported child development.” look at the world of afordability. Now contrast these points with the reality of the recent In outlining how the living wage is calculated, a vivid pic- decision to treat workers diferently in British Columbia. ture emerges about the challenges facing low-wage families. Equity: the quality of being fair and impartial. Equity of Imagine not having enough money to aford a birthday party treatment. Fairness. Fair-mindedness. Justice. Equitableness. for your child or pay for dental care — and, as in the case Fair play. Instead of fairness, this House has been subjected in 2008, when we saw families ripped apart. Imagine not to a denial of equity — in fact, a blatant defance, defence having children because you don’t see yourself ever earning of inequity. Te government tells us the recent government enough to give them that birthday party, let alone send them decision to apply low-wage redress to unionized employees to college. is not political. Tey’ve certainly intimated that on many As I said, the CCPA has been calculating the living wage occasions. Tis decision is a departure from 12 years of past since 2008. Each year, up until this latest report, the living practice. wage went up — up and up — while more and more people As discussed, this decision will have a devastating efect fell further and further behind and the number of children on the Richmond Society for Community Living, the people and families living in poverty grew. Te previous govern- we serve and their staf. Our SCL has approximately 40 dir- ment heard the call for nine years, yet did nothing. Child ect line staf that are non-union. Te majority of our non- care costs exceeded infation, MSPs doubled and the policies union staf work with children and families and early inter- that boosted the top 2 percent never trickled down to the vention services. Recruitment and retention of qualifed staf families that needed it the most. is a chronic and serious problem for community and other Tis government’s commitment to making life afordable social services organizations. Tis recent decision will began to take shape when we took ofce less than two years exacerbate an already critical problem and create tension ago. Tis current trend downward in the living wage shows within organizations and between social service agencies. how our government’s actions are beginning to help people, Tis will impact children and families that rely on service. and when people have a little economic security, communit- ies and employers beneft, as does the economy as a whole. Monday, May 13, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9189

[10:45 a.m.] Quebec and Ontario. Tey’re all very small family farms, Despite working hard, not having enough money to buy and the entire family would be involved. Te kids would get essentials or pay all of the bills takes its toll on workers home from school, they would help with chores, and they and on their children. Low-income earners sufer stress two would help with milking. Tey didn’t have the money for times more ofen than higher earners. Tis results in poorer hired help in Quebec and Ontario, with some of these small health and higher health care costs. Poorer health leads to dairy farms that only milk 35 or 40 cows. absenteeism from work and reduced productivity. Lifing A few years ago a friend of mine moved about an hour wages, then, is good for business in the long term. out of Saskatoon from Abbotsford and started a dairy farm Let’s not forget that children from low-income families in Saskatoon. We were there for a tour on FCM. I took the sufer. Working harder means more time away from the mayor of Delta and a few of my fellow councillors out to my kids, adding to everyone’s stress. Children are less likely friend’s dairy farm. to do well in school, will have poorer health outcomes as Te school bus came down this long, dusty road to their they grow up and are less likely to do well in the work- farm about an hour out of Saskatoon, and three young kids force. We need well-trained workers, and we would do well that belonged to my friend got of the school bus. We were to make sure our children grow up to be bright contribut- looking around the dairy farm, and it was getting around ors to our future economy. And let’s not forget that small milking time. All of a sudden, these three young kids came business owners are workers too, so providing for aford- to the barn. Tey quickly got out of their school clothes and able child care and reducing and eliminating regressive put their books away. All three of them were in the barn fees and taxes support them too. with their boots on, ready to do chores and get the cows up Without the measures we’ve taken to reduce the costs of for milking time. It goes to show you the benefts of young child care and MSP, the living wage would have gone up sig- people working, especially in the agriculture industry. nifcantly. Rather than going down 8 percent, it would have, When I was nine — this will be hard to believe; not too in reverse, risen that amount. many people remember this — my frst job was at McClary Seeing the dial move to reduce the living wage is good for Stock Yards in Vancouver. Tere used to be a bridge called people and good for business. Tere’s a way to go, but we are the Fraser Street Bridge that went from No. 5 Road over to on the right path. Fraser Street. In the ’60s, in the ’50s, there was a stock yard that sold cattle on the Fraser Street edge of the river in Van- MY FIRST JOB couver. My dad was the auctioneer. At age nine, in the sum- mertime, I would go. I got a job with a cane to herd the cattle I. Paton: I’ll try and keep this non-partisan, as are the that came out of the auction ring and pen them in the correct rules on Monday morning. pen for whoever happened to be the buyer of those cattle. Te title of my statement this morning is going to be on It may seem like a lot of responsibility for a nine-year-old, frst jobs. I rise in the House today to do a bit of reminiscing. and it was, but that did not mean that I was incapable of Everyone remembers their frst job and how these opportun- doing it. Te pressure to do a good job ensured that I learned ities not only helped them buy that new bike or pay for col- the trade quickly. I got paid a few bucks, and that got me on lege but also played an important part in developing their my way and got me my frst paycheque, chasing cattle down character and work ethic. Tese benefts are life-long, and the alley at McClary Stock Yards in Vancouver. I’m sure that many of us here today think of their frst job as I also started mowing lawns and continued to help with being the beginning of their road to this chamber, actually. I picking potatoes, milking cows for the neighbours and, on know I do. our own farm, driving the tractor and throwing a lot of hay I’m sure everyone in this House likely knows by now that bales when I was a young person. Not exactly glamorous, but I’m a third-generation farmer. I’m still living on the farm that everyone has to start somewhere. I was born on 62 years ago in Delta. As a kid growing up [10:50 a.m.] with my grandfather and my dad, we learned to do chores in Most importantly, these jobs gave me my frst impression the morning and at night, at milking time. I learned to drive of the importance of hard work. It also gave me the frst taste a pickup truck at age 12. And of course, I learned to drive a of the rewards, both material and more abstract, of a job well tractor at a young age as well. I also learned how to milk a done. In my teens, I started to expand my horizons as bit. cow when I was just eight or nine years old. When you grow Some of the positions I held during this time included a gas up on a farm, your parents always make you work. station attendant. Back in those days, it was full service. Two In my family, we were never, ever told or allowed to collect of us would run out to a car. One would fll up the gas tank, unemployment insurance. It was: “Get out there and fnd and the other would open the hood and check the oil. Tat’s yourself a job.” what you did back in the days at full-attended gas stations. Te whole family would head out into the feld to help I was a playground supervisor for Delta Parks and Recre- with the harvest. I remember this vividly, and I think many ation. I worked in a parts warehouse in Vancouver on 1st B.C. farm families would have similar stories. I see this many Avenue for General Motors. I worked as a boatbuilder on the times, travelling Canada, in the dairy farming industry in Fraser River, building wooden-hulled fsh boats for Wahl’s 9190 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019

Boatbuilding. I worked at Crown Zellerbach cardboard plant and bugs and fowers on them and arriving a bedraggled on the edge of the Fraser River, and I also was a golf course — I don’t know — ten-year-old, nine-year-old. As long as I greenskeeper, among other things that I did. grabbed Gretchen the goat by her one remaining horn and When you’re a teenager growing up on a farm, there’s only kind of arm-wrestled her into where we needed to go, the one thing that you want. You want to make some money, rest of the goats would follow. It was a big responsibility and and you want to buy your own pickup truck. Tese jobs a real sense of power, probably for the frst time in my life, allowed me to do just that. People talk about intergenera- and no harm came of it. tional divides, but I think buying that frst car or pickup So when the members of the Nanaimo, Duncan and Dis- truck is still something that many teenagers long for. Solid, trict Labour Council came to meet with me a couple of stable jobs, such as many of those available to young people weeks ago to talk about kids who are harmed in the work- in the agriculture sector, allow them to do that. place, I was blown away. In 2003, the age of work was I held all of these positions while continuing to help out reduced to 12 here in the province. Tat has put kids into my family on the farm, my own farm. My jobs never risky workplaces. interfered with my studies. If anything, it actually helped [10:55 a.m.] them. Having a summer job not only gave me spending Tis is what I heard from the labour council in Nanaimo. money, but it also helped me save for purchasing my frst Tey said that 12-year-olds can work now in most industries, livestock and eventually got me enough to enter university. I including food service, accommodation, farming, construc- don’t think there was a year during high school or university tion, even manufacturing. Tis is a serious health and safety that I did not work during the summer. In my mind, that was risk for these young people. Commercial equipment is dan- what summertime was for. While this was my story, I’m sure gerous, not appropriately sized for children, and safe opera- we could go around the chamber and hear many similar tales tion requires expensive training and supervision. from similar MLAs in this building. Tese are not conditions in which our kids should be I remember graduating from UBC in 1979, and I couldn’t working, and doing this type of work has real consequences. get a full-time teaching job. So the frst ofer I got was milk- Kids are getting hurt. Tey say: “Since 2003, over 2,000 chil- ing cows. Having just gotten married in 1979, and just out of dren under the age of 15 have claimed work-related health university, I went of and milked cows for six months until I care costs due to injuries” — 2,000 kids since 2003. “Tis got my frst teaching job. I taught school for a grand total of number only refects the number of reported injuries. We about one year, and I decided that I’d rather go back to the know that many injuries go unreported, especially where the family farm and the family farm auction business. employer is the child’s own parent.” My point is clear. All of these experiences played a fun- Tey went on to say: “Te government must do more to damental role in equipping me with valuable life skills and protect children by prioritizing their schooling and health helping me build a strong character. Tey teach self-worth and safety, not work. When youth are ready to go to work, and self-respect as well as independence and responsibility. there need to be rigorous rules in place to ensure that they Another interesting job I had growing up was joining the are protected from injury and death.” Tat’s a quote from the local volunteer fre department. As a kid growing up in the Nanaimo and District Labour Council. farming area of east Delta, it was kind of a rite of passage So I’m really pleased that our government has brought in that you would join the volunteer fre department. It wasn’t protections. Te legislation that was tabled just last week, or for the money. I think we got paid $16 per call-out, whether two weeks ago, will broadly raise the age that a child may the call-out was for half an hour or for a burning barn that work from 12 to 16, and will better protect the safety of 16- had us out for 12 hours. But I learned to drive a fre truck. to 18-year-olds by putting in place tough restrictions on the I learned to be responsible, how to work with older people types of hazardous work that they can be asked to perform. in the fre department, and I grew up very fast, facing many Now, we heard from people, of course, that younger horrible car accidents along Highway 99. I saw some of the people want to work, that 14- and 15-year-olds want to grimmest things you’d ever want to see as a 17-year-old on be able to participate in the workforce when it’s safe, and the volunteer fre department. I want that, too. Under the proposed changes, which are Now, of course, we need to ensure that youth are safe at now making their way through the House under our work. We wouldn’t want to be sending 15-year-olds with no Labour Minister, 14- and 15-year-olds will need parental training into the woods as tree fallers. If there is something consent to do only certain types of light work, which will to laud about the culture of many jobs today, it’s that the be laid out in the regulations. importance of safety is recognized by employers. Tese changes are about employer-employee relation- ships; they’re not about family chores. So 14- and 15-year- S. Malcolmson: I am getting very nostalgic here. My frst old children will be allowed to do certain forms of light work job was as a goat milker. I have very clear memories of the that are safe for their health and development, like stock- old alarm clock in my granny’s cabin going of, the feeling of ing shelves in a convenience store and babysitting, obviously. importance. I was up before anybody else, walking through A lot of people made all their allowance doing babysitting. the meadow with my rubber boots and getting all of the dew Monday, May 13, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9191

Other forms of work will require a permit from the director in a safe and responsible manner, how to tend to animals and for anyone under 16. how to run a business, ofen their own family’s. Tey develop Tat’s, again, to make sure that there are extra layers of so many life skills that you just can’t learn when you’re sitting concern over anybody that thinks that they themselves are in a classroom. capable of doing that harder work but are not in a position Our schools and educators do a fantastic job, day in and to. Te legislation also maintains the existing regulations day out, but it’s my belief that when youth also have the that allow children to work in recorded and live entertain- opportunity to be part of the working world, to get their ment — again, as long as they’ve got parental consent. Tat’s hands dirty and to earn for themselves, the benefts are tre- that extra piece that’s so important. mendous for our young people. Another piece of protection that supports young workers, and that I was so glad to see, was recognizing that servers Hon. J. Darcy: I would ask that the House consider pro- working on tips don’t actually get to take those tips home ceeding with Motion 13 standing in the name of the member all the time. Tose are hard-earned. I know that a lot of for Powell River–Sunshine Coast. young folks working in the service industry, at any young age, rely on them so much. Tis is, again, a new regulation Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, unanimous consent of that is embedded in the legislation. Employers will be pro- the House is required to proceed with Motion 13 without hibited from withholding tips or other gratuities from work- disturbing the priorities of the motions preceding it on the ers, deducting amounts from them or requiring them to be order paper. turned over to the employer. Tip pooling, of course, is still allowed, but it has to be done in a fair way. Leave granted.

I. Paton: I thank the member for her response. I have Private Members’ Motions talked about the importance of frst jobs to me personally, but I think it is also needed to talk about how the employ- MOTION 13 — OPPOSITION TO ment of young people provides a net good for society. Work CONVERSION THERAPY provides something meaningful for youth to do, something they can be proud of that makes them feel like they’re con- N. Simons: It’s a pleasure to be able to stand here and pro- tributing to their community and something that rewards pose the motion: them for a job well done. [Be it resolved that this House afrm its opposition to the practice We should also recognize that keeping busy also helps of conversion therapy for lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, questioning, trans- deter youth from getting into trouble. On the Lower Main- gender, queer, two-spirited, intersex or any other minor.] land, I’ve seen gang activity continue to grow, and I think it’s Tat, of course, refers to minor persons. I think that this troubling that gangsters ofen reach out to and recruit young motion…. We’ve seen legislation across North America, people — some in their teens, some even younger than that. Europe and other countries that specifcally prohibits the Many of the youth who join these gangs are vulnerable. practice of trying to change the character of a young person Perhaps they’re missing some connection in their lives and through therapy. I’m kind of disappointed, in a way, that this fnd it in this group, which has made them feel like a some- even has to be talked about, not because it’s not an important body. Tey’re ofered false friendship, money, cars and things issue but because I think…. What we know as a society is we that seem glamorous on the surface. Before they know it, should be a little bit further past this. We shouldn’t even be they’re doing things they never thought they would do and considering that this is even a possibility. engaged in a criminal lifestyle that’s much easier to get into We do see it happening in other jurisdictions. We see than to get out of. some cases and a recent movie, in fact, Boy Erased, of this [11:00 a.m.] practice that takes place, perhaps out of sight. Tat’s partly I think we want to ensure that youth are not restricted what this motion is hoping to bring out. Is this occurring in from opportunities to work, to keep busy and to better them- British Columbia? If it is, it shouldn’t be. If it is, it should selves. Let’s help fnd them hobbies or work that they enjoy be outright illegal. I don’t think any regulatory body would and that would help them make money honestly. Tat would allow their practitioners to participate in this kind of activity. give them a better way to make a name for themselves. It’s I think it should be clear that it’s not only professional good for them, and it’s good for our communities. counsellors that should not be engaged in this practice, but In closing, I always speak up for the agriculture sector. It nobody should be engaged in this practice. I’m looking for- is the largest employer of youth in our province and provides ward to hearing comments from others in this House, but well-paying jobs that keep young people busy and engaged. I think that on the face of it, when you’re a child growing up in our society, you should be encouraged to live the most [J. Isaacs in the chair.] authentic being that you can be. Tat does not include the removal of that person from their place of where they live, Tese young people are able to learn how to work the land 9192 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019

from their comforts, in order to be told that there is some- difcult time. In fact, we know that gay-straight alliances thing bad about them. help contribute to a safer school climate. Te research from We know, in our society now, that there is nothing the Stigma and Resilience Among Vulnerable Youth Centre wrong with anyone if they’re expressing their identity — at UBC’s School of Nursing determined that not only do gay- their gender identity, their sexual identity. Tat should not straight alliances make schools safer for LGBTQ students but be the subject of a discussion or an efort to change, and also among straight students. that should be something that all children in this province Tey should not be told that they are broken or that are protected from. something is wrong with them because of their sexual ori- As a social worker, if I were to ever have found out that entation. It’s a shame that in 2019 we still have to have a child was being required to undergo some sort of therapy these discussions about what’s right or wrong with regards to change their identity, that would certainly involve further to sexual orientation. investigation on the part of the social worker. Te psycholo- Unfortunately, history presents many examples of indi- gical health of a child is something that we need to protect viduals being punished for their sexual orientation. One and something that we need to encourage, enhance and sup- prominent example includes that of Alan Turing, as depicted port. Any therapy that could be considered conversion ther- by Benedict Cumberbatch in the 2014 flm, Te Imitation apy would have absolutely nothing but negative impacts on Game. I recommend everybody see it, if you haven’t. Turing a child. In fact, it would be a therapy to try to ensure that a is credited as the father of computer science, cracking codes young person live an inauthentic life. made by the Germans’ seemingly unbreakable enigma [11:05 a.m.] machine during the Second World War. Te work done by As a legislator, as a human being, as a child, as a sibling Turing is overshadowed by the fact that he was a closeted gay of many, as a god parent and as a person in this province, I man in 1952, a time when being homosexual was outlawed. would like it to be quite clear that in British Columbia, like Turing’s fate takes a tragic turn when he is chemically cas- in other jurisdictions that have made it explicitly so, this is trated. Peter Gajdics wrote, when he was spurring the whole not a practice that we can afrm. In fact, it’s a practice that idea that Vancouver become the frst Canadian city to ban we would and should collectively denounce as a problem, as conversion therapy…. He said: bordering on abuse to a child if, in fact, they’re subject to any “Over six years, the doctor prescribed near fatal dosages of various efort from any adult to change who their essential being is. concurrent psychiatric medications. He directed me to ‘release my With that, I’m pleased to present and table this motion to pain’ and to ‘feel my rage’ during prolonged sessions of primal scream therapy. He injected me weekly with ketamine hydrochloride, an an- the House. I look forward to the comments of my colleagues. imal anaesthetic, before ‘reparenting’ sessions, where I would lie in his lap like a newborn baby so he could nurture me as my new ‘daddy.’ J. Tornthwaite: I rise in this House to support the He even used aversion therapy, exposing me to a stimulus while sim- motion: “Be it resolved that this House afrm its opposition ultaneously subjecting me to some sort of discomfort — all in an ef- fort to…‘fip over to the other side’ to my supposed ‘innate hetero- to the practice of conversion therapy for lesbian, gay, bi- sexuality.’” sexual, questioning, transgender, queer, two-spirited, inter- Tankfully, in Canada, we have laws against discrimina- sex or any other minor.” tion based on religion and gender or sexual orientation. I’m Conversion therapy is the pseudo-scientifc practice of very proud that during…. When we were in government, trying to change an individual’s sexual orientation from we brought forward improvements to the human rights code homosexual or bisexual to heterosexual. Medical, scientifc to give specifc identity to gender expression and identity as and government organizations have expressed concerns over well as introducing the SOGI policies in schools. the validity, efcacy and ethics of conversion therapy. I also have spoken in this House about the trail-blazers at In fact, the World Health Organization wrote in a 2012 Seycove Secondary on the international Day of Pink, the fact paper that reparative and conversion therapies have no med- that they have a rainbow crosswalk on their school grounds. ical indication and represent a severe threat to the health and I want to give credit to teachers like Andrea Yeo. She has human rights of the afected persons. Tey constitute unjus- brought this issue to students in North Vancouver to the tifable practices that should be denounced and subject to forefront. adequate sanctions and penalties. Similarly, I might add, is [11:10 a.m.] female genital mutilation, another barbaric human act. In summary, as a community, we need to continue to be Conversion therapy seems to suggest that any sexual ori- trail-blazers, to focus on acceptance and understanding. Te entation other than heterosexuality is wrong and something rights of the LGBTQ community are human rights, and we needing to be fxed. Tat is simply not true. Adolescence is a must not allow intolerance to fester. We have to continue to confusing time of uncertainty. Bodies are changing, and hor- speak out in the Legislature and beyond in support of all of mone levels are fuctuating. Te added stress of navigating our LGBTQ citizens. sexual orientation can have a detrimental efect on the men- tal health of adolescents. S. Furstenau: It gives me pleasure to join with my col- In these tumultuous times, youth should have access to leagues from both the government and ofcial opposition support systems and resources that help them navigate this Monday, May 13, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9193 to speak in support of the motion: “Be it resolved that this the responsibility of leaders in our community to ensure that House afrm its opposition to the practice of conversion we provide a safe, inclusive and welcoming environment for therapy for lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, questioning, transgender, all members of the community, including those who identify queer, two-spirited, intersex or any other minor.” or are perceived to be LGBTQ+. As pointed out by my colleague from the ofcial oppo- Te work of addressing stigma, bias and discrimination sition, conversion therapy is the pseudo-scientifc practice against people who are marginalized because of their sexu- of trying to change an individual’s sexual orientation from al orientation or gender identity is ongoing. We must con- homosexual or bisexual to heterosexual using psychological tinue to be vigilant against those who promote hatred and or spiritual interventions. try to turn back the clock on the progress we have made as Tere is no reliable evidence that sexual orientation or a community. gender identity can be changed. Medical bodies overwhelm- Over the last many months, my ofce has been consulting ingly condemn the practice, warning that conversion ther- with leaders in the LGBTQ2+ community and people who apy practices are inefective and can be seriously harmful. have sufered conversion therapy, while working on a bill Attempting to force somebody to change their sexual orient- with legislative drafers to ban the practice in British Colum- ation or gender identity, an integral part of who they are, is bia. Notice of our bill will be tabled this afernoon, and the associated with trauma, increased rates of suicide and signi- full private member’s bill will be put before the House by the fcant impacts on people’s mental health. end of this month. While it is believed this practice is, thankfully, uncommon Following the leadership and the spirit of collaboration in British Columbia, there have been advertised sessions shown in Nova Scotia, I thank the government for initiating in the past few years, and these types of “treatments” may this important motion and the opposition for supporting it still occur behind closed doors. Our staf have spoken with and invite both the B.C. NDP and the B.C. Liberals to sup- people whose lives have been deeply impacted by this, and port our bill or bring one forward of their own proposal. the stories are heartbreaking. [11:15 a.m.] I stand here today with people around the province resol- Conversion therapy forced on youth is child abuse. It is ute that it is time for our province to take action to protect not welcome in our province. Let us stand together to show people from this harmful practice and determined to bring LGBTQ2+ British Columbians that they are accepted, they us in line with many other Canadian provinces who have are valued, they are loved, and they are safe. shown leadership on this human rights issue. Manitoba has partnered with Seniors and Active Living, regional health D. Davies: Tank you to the member for Powell authorities, health profession regulatory colleges and Man- River–Sunshine Coast for putting this motion forward. I will itoba Health to ensure that conversion therapy has no place be speaking in favour of this motion today. in their health care system. Before we dive into this serious and disturbing topic, I Ontario passed a landmark law banning conversion ther- want to express pride in our province — that all three parties apy on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender children and have come together and have been very supportive of LGB- preventing medical practitioners from billing OHIP for it. TQ+ British Columbians and moving forward in a positive Te leader of the Nova Scotia Progressive Conservative way. It seems like one of the few issues that all three parties Party called for members of the House of Assembly to come can stand up and agree on. Te acceptance of this com- together and ban conversion therapy for youth in the munity is certainly a positive shif that I have seen, even in province. Each party tabled their version of a conversion my lifetime. therapy ban and worked collaboratively to pass one unanim- Te government of Canada issued a formal apology in ously in September. parliament to members of the LGBT community in Novem- Tis month the Canadian Bar Association sent a letter to ber of 2017. I’ll read it here. the federal government calling for them to impose a specifc “It is with shame and sorrow and deep regret for the things we ban on conversion therapy. Te federal government has also have done that I stand here today and say: we were wrong. We apolo- received a petition asking for them to take action on con- gize. I am sorry. We are sorry…. “To members of the LGBTQ2 communities, young and old, here version therapy. While they condemned the practice, they in Canada and around the world, you are loved, and we support declined to take action, stating it was a responsibility of the you…. provinces to address. “To the trailblazers who have lived and struggled, and to those So let us address it. Let us join our fellow provinces and who have fought so hard to get us to this place, thank you for your courage and thank you for lending your voices. I hope…you look other countries and states that have taken action against this back on all you have done with pride. abhorrent practice. Let us live up to our claims of valuing “It is because of your courage that we are here today, together, and diversity and inclusion. Let us protect our children by stand- reminding ourselves that we can, and must, do better. ing up for them and saying we accept them for who they are “For the oppression of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and two-spirited communities, we apologize. On behalf of the and who they were meant to be. government, Parliament, and the people of Canada: we were wrong. Every person deserves to be part of our community We are sorry. And we will never let this happen again.” without fear of discrimination, harassment or violence. It is 9194 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019

Tat was an ofcial apology that was issued in parliament feel heard, and I revelled in her attention. I felt I had a con- in November 2017. nection with her. I think change is a good way to look at this motion before It wasn’t long before she asked me if I was gay. I answered us, because it really does refect how we have come as a “probably,”but I wasn’t sure. She confded in me that she, too, society in respecting the rights of people of all ages. When was a lesbian but that she was going to therapy to cure it. my parents were in school, they could’ve been strapped for She told me that in God’s eyes, it was a sin, and that I, too, being lef-handed. Hard to believe today. Tis would have could go to therapy to cure my gayness. To my counsellor, been in the 1940s and 1950s. Not only was this common I was depressed because of my homosexual tendencies, and practice, but it was the attitude all the way through school, she had a treatment for that. from kindergarten up. By the way, my parents were both lef- Growing up with a mother who loved unconditionally and handed. didn’t care if I was gay, straight or anything in between, intel- To do this in school today would be met with universal lectually I felt that this viewpoint was misguided and that gay condemnation. Te teacher would likely lose their job and people were, in fact, okay. I was seriously depressed, but I not teach again, and rightly so. Tere was a fundamental didn’t feel it had anything to do with my orientation. I didn’t change in the collective mentality of all British Columbians have clarity in my sexuality, but I was comfortable with that. against this behaviour. It was not the source of my depression. I had a mood dis- On a large scale, a little over 100 years ago, a small portion order and was seeking help to cope with that, not trying to of British Columbians were able to vote for members in the be straight. House. Women didn’t, though, get the right to vote until I was surprised by my counsellor’s perspective because I 1917. Chinese and South Asian Canadians were not allowed thought she was so with it, and by contrast, her viewpoint to vote until 1947. Indigenous and Japanese British Colum- seemed so antiquated. Nonetheless, I really liked her. Heck, bians had to wait until 1949. I may even have had a crush on her, and I wanted to please Fast-forward to today. In the last number of years, we have her. Together we held hands and prayed. Together we tried had members, and have members, from all of these previ- to pray the gay away. ously disenfranchised groups elected here into this chamber I continued to see this counsellor, mostly because I really who have served proudly as members on both sides. I think liked her and the attention she gave me. Little did I know, as and hope a similar shif has happened and is happening in a vulnerable youth, I was a subject of conversion therapy. the LGBTQ+ communities. Conversion therapy is a set of practices that intend to Today we are standing in this House to condemn con- change a person’s sexuality or gender identity to ft hetero- version therapy, as it is totally unacceptable in our society. sexual or cisgender standards and expectations, and it’s ofen We believe that children and teens in our province should religiously motivated. Terapies can include methods such be respected, no matter if they’re straight, gay, lesbian, as talk therapy, electroshock therapy, treating LGBTQ2S+ trans or identify in any other way. Tis is not a behaviour identity as an addiction like a drug or alcohol issue. While that needs to be changed but a fundamental part of who certain therapies, like talk therapy, are also legitimate forms these people are. of care for people who experience mental health problems, For this reason, I consider the issue before us a human being gay or trans is not a mental health disorder. rights issue. Individuals have the right to be accepted as they I’m happy to report that I escaped conversion therapy. are. Tey have the right not to face discrimination or hatred Today I’m happily married to my wife, Andrea, who’s here for who they are. I’m comforted in thinking that a generation in the gallery today. I feel so fortunate to know her and to of children will go through school believing that the idea of share a life with her, and I couldn’t be happier, even if I was conversion therapy is as crazy as the idea of someone being straight. I celebrate my great gay life. Happily, praying the beaten for using their lef hand just to write their notes. gay away didn’t work, but it also didn’t cause me serious Tat is what lasting change looks like — that and the sup- harm because of the foundation of unconditional love from port by all parties in this House on a motion that reafrms my parents. this chamber’s commitment to human rights. Conversion therapy can cause people to feel that they [11:20 a.m.] are not okay to simply be who they are at their very core. Tis can lead to depression and suicidality in vulnerable J. Rice: When I was 14, I struggled with depression. I was people. Being anything other than heterosexual and cis- suicidal and unable to focus on anything or concentrate in gender does not cause these mental crises, but being school. I aimlessly rode buses around the city, avoiding going repeatedly told by people you love and trust that you are to classes, and carried a heavy, dark cloud over my head. fundamentally wrong does. I sought guidance for my mood disorder from a counsel- Suicide is an epidemic with the LGBTQ2S+ community, lor at a youth drop-in centre in downtown Ottawa, where with rates of suicide four times greater for queer youth. I met a gentle, sof-spoken woman. She was a caring, com- Nearly half of trans people have considered suicide at some passionate youth counsellor. She was really hip, I thought, point in their lives. Lesbian, gay, bi, trans, queer, two-spirited because she wore Doc Marten shoes. Tis woman made me people are normal people and need to be treated as such. If Monday, May 13, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9195 you or anyone you know is struggling to accept their place people would change how they were born and how they are on the rainbow, please reach out to supportive services in wired to be. Tat’s simply categorically wrong. your community and know that it truly does get better. Tere is no place, especially for our youth, to feel that they need to change who they are, that they, unfortunately, do not P. Milobar: I stand here to speak to the motion in oppo- have a loving home that would enable them to be able to live sition to the practice of conversion therapy. Being that it’s their happiest adolescent years that they could in a very con- 2019, it strikes me that it’s unfortunate that we do need to fusing time for them, in a time that would be a higher level have this conversation still, but it’s critical that we do as a of confusion, angst, worry, potential depression and all those society. It’s one of these topics that I think is very important, types of issues that would come with already feeling like you and I do want to thank the member for Powell River–Sun- don’t quite ft in and you don’t quite belong. shine Coast for bringing this forward. To have that advanced further by your parents or your [11:25 a.m.] guardian seeking out people that would stand to try to val- It’s something that…. I think, as we’ve heard throughout idate those parental feelings, which are totally wrong and the morning already, that it’s critical to make sure that we should not be there, simply cannot stand. keep shining a light and awareness on issues like this — that I do thank the member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast youth in our communities do have the right to be able to be for bringing this forward. It’s an important topic. It’s one proud of who they are and to be able to seek out the type that, unfortunately, we need to keep pressing. We need to of life that brings them joy and happiness. We should not be keep saying: “It is not acceptable. It is not right.” It’s one of putting false practices in their way to try to lessen what they those things that cuts across ideological lines. are struggling with and what they are trying to make sure that they can move forward with. D. Routley: It gives me pleasure to stand up and support You think of all the advancements we’ve made in society this motion, which would seek to bring light to the conver- in terms of acceptance, moving forward on a wide range of sion therapies that are being enforced or imposed on young topics and issues. Te fact that we’re still needing to debate people around the world but even here in British Columbia. or highlight just the plain wrongness of conversion therapy [11:30 a.m.] is sad in itself. All of our youth deserve, as I say, the right to It was only a few weeks ago that I gave a statement in this be able to seek out the type of life that they would like. House in the words of a young, transgender man named Eli- You think of the sports realm. You think of what’s jah Boyle and spoke about the importance of understanding happened. I was refecting on my time as a coach with my and the danger of complacency. own kids versus the type of coaching that was presented to We heard a statement earlier today about the rise of the me when I was their age. We don’t tolerate those types of alt-right movement and all that goes along with that. It all coaching practices anymore, yet there still seems to be an comes from the same bag of rotten potatoes — racism, xeno- underlying tolerance to things around conversion therapies phobia, misogyny, homophobia. It all comes from the same in segments of our communities. Tere shouldn’t be. Tere batch. It’s important that we as elected people ofer our sup- should be no doubt about it. Tere should be no need to port to any vulnerable citizens, regardless of why they have continue to try to have to shout down these types of wrong- become vulnerable. It would be irresponsible for any of us to minded practices that are out there. do any other than that. It’s unfortunate that there are still people out there preying Young Eli was devastated when the Prime Minister passed upon the vulnerable, as the previous speaker mentioned, on supporting a ban on conversion therapies. Eli supported preying on their vulnerabilities and their confusion in life. the Prime Minister because he believed that he would stand Te teenage years, the younger years of anybody, are con- up for transgender people. Not only was he crushed by that fusing enough for people, let alone when you’re trying to act, but I saw the development of a kind of cynicism inside struggle through in a household that may not be as accepting him and his girlfriend — or maybe a confrmation of cyn- of who you truly are. To have conversion therapy avenues icism that they had been resisting, that nothing could open to parents and guardians is wrong. Tey should not be change. Tat’s really unfortunate for all of us. able to seek out and fnd people that are willing to make, I want to speak to people who are living in the closet and essentially, their child’s life that much more difcult and that who are afraid to come out. Tey’re afraid because of their much more confusing for them. personal safety, a shunning that they might experience from People peddling the conversion therapies of the world, as the people who they love, a loss of relationships and a loss of the UN has rightly pointed out, should not be doing so. You respect from people that they respect. I understand it. Many see all sorts of documentaries on various channels and with people sufer. the streaming services now of just how wrong these ther- We can all have an efect here with the words that we use. apies go. Te intended outcome, frst of, is an impossible We will have an efect here with the words we use, wheth- one to try to achieve. It’s starting from a very wrong spot, a er we want to or not. But I think we should want to, and very wrong mindset that if only there was a bit more praying we should direct that efect to supporting vulnerable people — if only there was a bit more, essentially, brainwashing — everywhere. 9196 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019

Tis motion afrms that we all care about the wellness of pains without being told that the way they are is wrong or every child and youth in this province, that we will protect that the feelings they’re having are wrong. In a perfect world, them. It states clearly the values of this province, the values youth wouldn’t be told that the way they were born was of the people on this side of the House, and fortunately and wrong or a mistake. Tey wouldn’t feel like they have to hide very benefcially, I believe, the values of all members. who they are for fear of rejection from their family or their Te member for Vancouver–West End tried three times peers. Tey would be accepted, and they’d be treated the way to introduce a bill that would protect transgender rights we all wish to be. by introducing them into the B.C. human rights code, and I believe that everyone should have the right and the three times that failed. Finally, the previous government opportunity to be themselves without the fear of discrimin- did act to do that. ation. Society can only beneft from a breadth of views and It’s very unfortunate that one member did vote against perspectives. We’re all human, and even though there are dif- that and did not support it. I understand that a person’s ferences among us, whether it’s through gender or cultural beliefs might prevent them from actively, inside themselves, or religious or even political lines, this country is known for supporting this, but we have a double duty of responsibility being progressive and for respecting and honouring the dif- here — elected to protect people and make their lives better. ferences between you and me and everyone else. We cannot contribute fuel to a fre that’s burning in our soci- Here in British Columbia, we are blessed with a diversity ety right now, referred to by the previous statement on the of landscapes, beliefs and cultural backgrounds. Having that rise of the alt-right movement. privilege — to live in a place that is rich in individualism and It is important. All the words we use, particularly here, are that does its best to ensure the basic human rights for all — important. We live in a time when fear and hate are being is a great one. manipulated by some in political positions of power — fear In Canada, there are laws in place to protect the rights and hate as we approach climate insecurity and many other and the freedoms of the individual. We’re entitled to dress challenges as a species. It’s in times of fear that times become however we like, speak the language that we want, eat what fearsome for those who are vulnerable. Words matter. we like and practise any religion that we want. In a perfect Eli said, and these are his words: “Quiet complacency with world, our ideological diferences wouldn’t cause confict or homophobic and transphobic ideologies is far more harm- cause members of a majority group to repress a minority ful than those who spout hate from a place of ignorance. group. And although these laws are in place to seek protec- Trans people who are not accepted by those around them tion of our rights to believe what we want and love who we are 44 percent more likely to attempt suicide, while that per- want, there is so much more that needs to be done. centage drops to 4 percent when they are acknowledged and Te prevalence of hate crimes is still rampant. Te accepted. Just acknowledging trans people as valid is suicide amount of hate speech fying around on the Internet, in prevention.” workplaces, in classrooms and locker rooms is still Tose were his words, and I absolutely agree with him. We rampant. Tere’s no legislation or law or means of enforce- can’t be complacent. We have a responsibility to act and to ment that is big enough or powerful enough to completely act in good faith and a responsibility to call out those who eradicate discrimination. Tat has to come from society. would manipulate this hatred that was growing. And little by little, we can come together over our difer- Numbers and words matter. Ask any marketing specialist. ences by treating everyone as equal. Eli knows this. Me, I consider this to be, essentially, a guide We should be united over the things that make each and to living in the closet. Tis is how you’ll suppress yourself, every one of us unique, not divided. Tese diferences pres- and it is terrible. ent unique opportunities for us to learn from one another. [11:35 a.m.] We all come from diferent walks of life, which means we all bring something valuable to contribute. Tere’s no right way M. Stilwell: Tank you for the opportunity to speak today or wrong way to live, and it’s certainly not a politician’s job to in support of this motion — the motion that the House tell people who to love or what god they should pray to or if afrm its opposition to conversion therapy for lesbian, gay, they should pray at all. bisexual, questioning, transgender, queer, two-spirited, I speak in this House today not as a member of the Legis- intersex or any other minor. lative Assembly but as a person who fundamentally believes Adolescence is a tumultuous time. Bodies are changing. that individuality should be celebrated and not condemned. Hormone levels are fuctuating. It’s causing mixed feelings I think these diferences are what make Canada and British and immense amounts of stress. Growing up is tough. It’s full Columbia great. And I think that on both sides of this of uncertainty, and adding the stress of wondering if your House, that is something we can all agree on. parents will love you for who you are or if your classmates or your teammates or your friends will continue to accept you S. Chandra Herbert: I’m proud to stand today as a mem- can be terrifying. Unfortunately, this is a sad reality for many ber of a government but, more importantly, as a member of young people. a Legislature that is opposed to conversion therapy. It’s been Youth deserve the freedom to experience these growing inspirational to hear the words of members of all politic- Monday, May 13, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9197 al parties united to say that this practice, a practice which folks as somehow correlated, because there was such little harms LGBTQ youth immeasurably and thus harms society, education or information out there, just phobia and stigma. is something that we do not stand for in British Columbia, I want to thank all of those who have gone before for edu- and it is not accepted or acceptable here. cating, for advocating, for protesting, for being locked up, [11:40 a.m.] for doing what they needed to do to spread education and I’m glad that this conversation — and I thank the member advocacy so that we could get to today, to be taking the step for Powell River–Sunshine Coast — is now out in the open. that, united as a government and as an opposition, we could For years, a number of us have spoken with the Ministry of be opposing this. Because a few years ago you’d never even Health, the Ministry of Education and other places to ensure hear words like “trans” in this House. Indeed, when I joined that the B.C. government was not in any way funding, allow- this Legislature back in 2008, I think the word “transgender” ing people to bill to support this practice, allowing public had never actually been said in this chamber before. Tat funds and resources to go into supporting this. I’ve been was ten years ago, 11 years ago. How is that possible? But assured by the Ministry of Health, specifcally, that there is indeed, society is progressing at a fast pace, because we’re no way, currently, that somebody could bill to accept money uniting together. to do a practice like conversion therapy. Tank you to the member for putting this on the foor so Now, that’s diferent from Ontario. Ontario, I understand, that we can all unite and so that ministers and everybody introduced legislation to make it clear to actually ban that can go back and think of ways they can afrm people’s value, billing category from existing in their health legislation. In their ability to exist and, indeed, the joy that the great B.C., there is no such category. So for a number of years, that diversity in our province should bring us all. Tank you. I hasn’t been possible. I’m really happy to hear that. gladly support this motion. However, when I say I’m glad this has become visible, I say it because the idea of a therapy to convert you from what M. Bernier: First, I want to thank the member for Powell you are to something else is really about, at its core, invisibil- River–Sunshine Coast for bringing this important topic to ity, about erasing people’s identities, making them disappear, the House today. Obviously, it’s one that we’ve heard that eradicating them from the planet, from their ability to exist. members on both sides of the House, all our three parties, I’ve spoken with one of the most outspoken people in B.C. support. It’s an important topic. As was mentioned by a few about the practice of conversion therapy, Peter Gajdics. I’ve people, it’s unfortunate, actually, that it even had to come to met with him a number of times. He believes, and shares the House to begin with, that we needed to even have this quite strongly, that this harms people for many decades, discussion. But it is important to bring awareness on a topic could change their entire reality. He believes that what that should not even require a debate or discussion anymore. happened to him should happen to no one else. I thank him [11:45 a.m.] for his campaign to make this clear. Vancouver, of course, Before I get too deep into my comments here, I do thanks to his advocacy, passed a resolution banning conver- fnd it quite upsetting and appalling that the member for sion therapy in Vancouver. Nanaimo–North Cowichan, in a situation where I thought Of course, I think, united today as a House, we’ll be clear the House was all on the same side, where the House was that we, as a government and as an opposition, all together all supporting in a very good debate, had to try to politi- say it shouldn’t be allowed anywhere in B.C. cize it with inaccuracies of what happened in this House. On Friday, we had the International Day Against Homo- I expect the member, at the end of this, to stand up and phobia, Transphobia and Biphobia in B.C. I think people cel- withdraw his comments because not one person in this ebrating that day will acknowledge that today we are also House voted against the Human Rights Code Amendment taking a step forward. Of course, we’ve changed our human Act. In fact, it passed unanimously in this House, and the rights code to involve gender identity and expression. Tat member said the opposite. So I expect the member oppos- took long, long years of advocacy, but we got it done. ite to stand up and withdraw his comment aferwards for Just as importantly, we are now proactive in our school not being accurate in that. system, with the sexual orientation and gender identity More importantly, let’s talk about the issue at hand here, policies embedded in all classes. Because it’s not enough to which is an important topic. When we look at conversion say: “Don’t tell people they shouldn’t exist.” I think it’s just as therapy, and you look at the history of it…. It is absolutely, important to say: “You exist, and we love you for your exist- incredibly disappointing when you look at what’s happened ence. We celebrate your ability to be who you are.” through society. But what’s really inspiring is how we learn, For a long time, going through the school system, you how we move forward and how we become more accepting. would be forgiven for thinking that LGBTQ people didn’t Te last thing that we need in society, with our youth, is the even exist. Tey didn’t appear in any curriculum. Tere were pressure, the stigma, the feeling of not ftting in, the feelings no stories about them. Certainly, growing up, that was the of not being allowed to be who you are. way it was for me. I think the few times I saw LGBTQ folks, it Suicide is the third leading cause of deaths in our youth. was in movies about them dying because of AIDS. Certainly, Most stats have shown that the majority of these students people growing up in my generation saw AIDS and LGBT and youth are LGBTQ or students who are questioning or 9198 British Columbia Debates Monday, May 13, 2019 students who are feeling not accepted because of who they health and well-being of afected people. Tere is a global are. Stats were done in 2010. A poll was done. So 59 percent epidemic that we’re seeing around conversion therapy. of LGBTQ students were verbally harassed in schools, 25 Likewise, we are all part…. Today I am very pleased that percent were physically harassed in schools, and 73 percent we have unanimous support for this motion in the House of our students reported that they actually felt unsafe going in our response here in British Columbia. We’re part of the to school because of their being open and LGBTQ. global movement to fght back and end conversion therapy. Tat’s why we actually brought in policies in the past to We know that there have been long-standing eforts over try to ensure, if nothing else, that schools have supports and many years by many individuals who have sufered through teachers have resources. Yes, a policy is just words. But the conversion therapy, and it’s created a critical mass. Now it’s enactment of the policies in our schools to try to help stu- broken through to the mainstream, with the successful dents to feel accepted, to feel safe, to feel they belong and to movies Boy Erased or Te Miseducation of Cameron Post to have a place to go to, whether it’s for resources or for teachers raise awareness of conversion therapy and to contribute to to be able to be that sometimes front-line support and some- the growing trend condemning the practice. times the very frst person that a student will open up to…. I came out as a lesbian when I was 18 years old. It wasn’t When I was the Minister of Education, I travelled around easy. I sat down at the kitchen table with my mother. I was the province. Some of the stories that I heard were quite crying. She was crying. Tere were tears streaming down our scary, quite sad. When I hear young students in high school faces. I said: “You know, I think that I’m attracted to other telling me: “I can’t change who I am. Why are people trying women.”My mother was…. She didn’t really understand, but to force me to change? I don’t belong. I don’t ft in….” I even she told me that she loved me and would accept me and sup- had one student say to me: “I’d rather have cancer, because at port me, whatever I was going through. least then people would understand that I’m sick, and I can When I told my sister, she was really angry at me. I was get help, whereas being LGBTQ — this is who I am. Why do taken aback. She was angry at me because I hadn’t told her they think I’m sick? Tere is nothing wrong with me.” Con- for so many years. She thought that if I had told her earlier…. version therapy was brought in because of that, and I’m so She didn’t think it was any big deal. So it was a challenge. glad that this House is actually standing up, as we are in so I began advocating around raising awareness, around end- many countries around the world, and banning this practice. ing homophobia and transphobia. Individuals — we’re com- It’s time that we actually, as society, start thinking and plex. People are born on a continuum of biological sex, a working on the things that are actually important on making continuum of gender identity, a continuum of gender life better for people. You know, life is short as it is. We need, expression and a continuum of sexual orientation. We know as a society, to make sure that we’re supporting, accepting that human rights recognizes this — our British Columbia and allowing people in our society to be who they are so they code for human rights — but there is a need to continue to can enjoy the life that we all expect all of us to have. raise awareness, to support youth and to end this practice. Tere is a campaign to end conversion therapy. It was M. Elmore: I’m very proud to rise and speak to the launched by the National Center for Lesbian Rights. It’s motion moved by my colleague from Powell River–Sun- called #bornperfect. I encourage everybody to tweet and shine Coast. “Be it resolved that this House afrm its support that. opposition to the practice of conversion therapy for les- I’d like to just end with a quote. We must relegate these bian, gay, bi-sexual, questioning, transgender, queer, two- therapies, conversion therapies, “to the dustbin of history spirited, intersex…” people. and ensure every child knows they were #bornperfect.” [11:50 a.m.] I’m very pleased to speak in favour of the motion, and I’m Conversion therapy, also known as sexual reorientation, so honoured and pleased to be joined by all members of this reparative or gay cure therapy is premised on the assumption House in unanimous support for this motion. that homosexuality or trans identity is a mental disorder and that these individuals should change either their sexual ori- M. Elmore moved adjournment of debate. entation or gender identity to heterosexual or cisgender. Conversion therapy forces these individuals into a deep Motion approved. pit of shame and constitutes a deep transgression and viola- tion of these youth. It cuts to a deep level of psychiatric…. It Hon. J. Darcy moved adjournment of the House. creates emotional damage and is also a cause for depression, substance abuse and even suicide. Motion approved. Conversion therapy is condemned as a dangerous, unne- cessary and inefective practice by every major psychother- Deputy Speaker: Te House is adjourned till 1:30 this apy, medical and mental health organization. As well, the afernoon. World Health Organization states that these practices lack medical justifcation and represent a serious threat to the Te House adjourned at 11:54 a.m. Hansard Reporting Services

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