Lok Sabha Debates
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Uncorrected – Not for Publication LSS-D-II LOK SABHA DEBATES (Part II - Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) Saturday, August 27, 2011/ Bhadra 5, 1933 (Saka) (PLEASE SEE SUPPLEMENT ALSO) 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6833 *LOK SABHA DEBATES (NO QUESTION HOUR: PART I - NOT ISSUED) PART II –PROCEEDINGS OTHER THAN QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Saturday, August 27, 2011/Bhadra 5, 1933 (Saka) C ON T E N T S P A G E S MESSAGE FROM RAJYA SABHA 6832 STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL JUSTICE 6833 AND EMPOWERMENT STATEMENT RE: ISSUES RELATING TO SETTING 6834- UP OF A LOKPAL Shri Pranab Mukherjee 6834-42 DISCUSSION RE: STATEMENT MADE BY FINANCE 6843- MINISTER ON ISSUES RELATING TO SETTING UP OF LOK PAL … 6843-46 Shrimati Sushma Swaraj 6847-64 Shri Sandeep Dikshit 6865-77 Shri Rewati Raman Singh 6878-83 Shri Dara Singh Chauhan 6884-86 Shri Sharad Yadav 6887-98 *Shri Harin Pathak 6899 Shri Sudip Bandyopadhyay 6900-03 Shri T.K.S. Elangovan 6904-07 * Laid on the Table 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6834 Shri Basudeb Acharia 6908-14 *Shri Jose K. Mani 6915-15C *Shri Devji Patel 6916-16F *Shrimati Poonam Veljibhai Jat 6917-18 *Prof. Sk. Saidul Haque 6919-19B Shri Bhartruhari Mahtab 6920-27 *Dr. Kirit P. Solanki 6928-28B *Shri S.S. Ramasubbu 6929-30 *Shri Ram Singh Kaswan 6931-31A *Dr. Kirodi Lal Meena 6932-32C *Shri Anto Antony 6933-33B *Shri Prem Das Rai 6934-34A *Shri Ravinder Kumar Pandey 6935-35A Shri Anant Gangaram Geete 6936-40 *Shri Virendra Kumar 6940A *Shri Hansraj G. Ahir 6941-41A Dr. Sanjeev Ganesh Naik 6942-43 *Shri Virender Kashyap 6944 Dr. M. Thambidurai 6945-50 *Dr. Mahendrasinh P. Chauhan 6951-51A *Shri Radhe Mohan Singh 6952-53 *Shri A.T. Nana Patil 6954-54A Shri Nimmala Kristappa 6955-56 *Shri Bhaskar Rao Patil Khatgonkar 6957-58 Shri Jayant Chaudhary 6959-64 * Laid on the Table 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6835 *Shri Ramsinh Rathwa 6965-65B *Dr. Nirmal Khatri 6966 Shri Gurudas Dasgupta 6967-72 *Shrimati Jyoti Dhurve 6973-74 *Shri Haribhau Madhav Jawale 6975 *Shri Pralhad Venkatesh Joshi 6976-76A *Ms. Meena Singh 6977-77A *Shri Shivarama Gouda 6978 *Prof. Ramashankar 6979-79A *Shri Rajendra Agrawal 6980-80A *Shri C.R. Patil 6981 *Shri Hukmdeo Narayan Yadav 6982-83 *Shrimati Yashodhara Raje Scindia 6984-85 *Dr. Sanjay Jaiswal 6986-86A *Shri Bal Kumar Patel 6987-87A Shrimati Harsimrat Kaur Badal 6988-93 *Shri P.T. Thomas 6994-95 *Shri Ganesh Singh 6996-99 Shri Lalu Prasad 7000-09 @Shri O.S. Manian 7010 *Shri Shiv Kumar Udasi 7011 Shri H.D. Devegowda 7012-15 (FOR REST OF THE PROCEEDINGS, PLEASE SEE THE SUPPLEMENT) xxxx * Laid on the Table @For English translation of the speech, please see the Supplement (PP.7010A – 7010E. 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6836 (a1/1100/tkd-rps) 1100 hours (Madam Speaker in the Chair) MADAM SPEAKER: Item No. 1. Secretary-General. MESSAGE FROM RAJYA SABHA 1101 hours SECRETARY-GENERAL: Madam Speaker. I have to report a message received from the Secretary-General of Rajya Sabha:- "In accordance with the provisions of rule 127 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Rajya Sabha, I am directed to inform the Lok Sabha that the Rajya Sabha at its sitting held on the 26th August. 2011 agreed without any amendment to the Transplantation of Human Organs (Amendment) Bill. 2011 which was passed by the Lok Sabha at its sitting held on the 12th August. 2011." --- 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6837 ºÉÉàÉÉÉÊVÉBÉE xªÉÉªÉ +ÉÉè® +ÉÉÊvÉBÉEÉÉÊ®iÉÉ ºÉƤÉÆvÉÉÒ ºlÉɪÉÉÒ ºÉÉÊàÉÉÊiÉ ÉÊ´É´É®hÉ gÉÉÒ nÉ®É É˺Éc SÉÉècÉxÉ (PÉÉäºÉÉÒ): àÉcÉänªÉÉ, àÉé ºÉÉàÉÉÉÊVÉBÉE xªÉÉªÉ +ÉÉè® +ÉÉÊvÉBÉEÉÉÊ®iÉÉ ºÉƤÉÆvÉÉÒ ºlÉɪÉÉÒ ºÉÉÊàÉÉÊiÉ BÉEä ÉÊxÉàxÉÉÊãÉÉÊJÉiÉ ÉÊ´É´É®hÉ (ÉÊcxnÉÒ iÉlÉÉ +ÉÆOÉVÉÉÒ ºÉƺBÉE®hÉ) ºÉ£ÉÉ {É]ãÉ {É® ®JÉiÉÉ cÚÆ: 1. +Éã{ɺÉÆJªÉBÉE BÉEɪÉÇ àÉÆjÉÉãÉªÉ BÉEÉÒ +ÉxÉÖnÉxÉÉå BÉEÉÒ àÉÉÆMÉÉå (2010-11) BÉEä ¤ÉÉ®ä àÉå ºÉÉàÉÉÉÊVÉBÉE xªÉÉªÉ +ÉÉè® +ÉÉÊvÉBÉEÉÉÊ®iÉÉ ºÉƤÉÆvÉÉÒ ºlÉɪÉÉÒ ºÉÉÊàÉÉÊiÉ (2010-11) BÉEä U~ä |ÉÉÊiÉ´ÉänxÉ ({Éxpc´ÉÉÓ ãÉÉäBÉE ºÉ£ÉÉ) àÉå +ÉÆiÉÉÌ´É−] ÉʺÉ{ÉEÉÉÊ®¶ÉÉå {É® ºÉ®BÉEÉ® uÉ®É BÉEÉÒ-MÉ<Ç-BÉEɪÉÇ´ÉÉcÉÒ BÉEä ¤ÉÉ®ä àÉå ºÉÉàÉÉÉÊVÉBÉE xªÉÉªÉ +ÉÉè® +ÉÉÊvÉBÉEÉÉÊ®iÉÉ ºÉƤÉÆvÉÉÒ ºlÉɪÉÉÒ ºÉÉÊàÉÉÊiÉ (2010-11) (15´ÉÉÓ ãÉÉäBÉE ºÉ£ÉÉ) BÉEä 12´Éå |ÉÉÊiÉ´ÉänxÉ BÉEä +ÉvªÉɪÉ-ABÉE àÉå +ÉÆiÉÉÌ´É−] ÉʺÉ{ÉEÉÉÊ®¶ÉÉå iÉlÉÉ +ÉvªÉɪÉ-{ÉÉÆSÉ àÉå +ÉÆiÉÉÌ´É−] ÉʺÉ{ÉEÉÉÊ®¶ÉÉå BÉEä ºÉƤÉÆvÉ àÉå +ÉÆÉÊiÉàÉ =kÉ®Éå {É® ºÉ®BÉEÉ® uÉ®É BÉEÉÒ-MÉ<Ç-BÉEɪÉÇ´ÉÉcÉÒ* 2. VÉxÉVÉÉiÉÉÒªÉ BÉEɪÉÇ àÉÆjÉÉãÉªÉ BÉEÉÒ +ÉxÉÖnÉxÉÉå BÉEÉÒ àÉÉÆMÉÉå (2010-11) BÉEä ¤ÉÉ®ä àÉå ºÉÉàÉÉÉÊVÉBÉE xªÉÉªÉ +ÉÉè® +ÉÉÊvÉBÉEÉÉÊ®iÉÉ ºÉƤÉÆvÉÉÒ ºlÉɪÉÉÒ ºÉÉÊàÉÉÊiÉ (2010-11) BÉEä {ÉÉÆSÉ´Éå |ÉÉÊiÉ´ÉänxÉ ({ÉÆpc´ÉÉÓ ãÉÉäBÉE ºÉ£ÉÉ) àÉå +ÉÆiÉÉÌ´É−] ÉʺÉ{ÉEÉÉÊ®¶ÉÉå {É® ºÉ®BÉEÉ® uÉ®É BÉEÉÒ-MÉ<Ç-BÉEɪÉÇ´ÉÉcÉÒ BÉEä ¤ÉÉ®ä àÉå ºÉÉàÉÉÉÊVÉBÉE xªÉÉªÉ +ÉÉè® +ÉÉÊvÉBÉEÉÉÊ®iÉÉ ºÉƤÉÆvÉÉÒ ºlÉɪÉÉÒ ºÉÉÊàÉÉÊiÉ (2010-11) (15´ÉÉÓ ãÉÉäBÉE ºÉ£ÉÉ) BÉEä 14´Éå |ÉÉÊiÉ´ÉänxÉ BÉEä +ÉvªÉɪÉ-ABÉE àÉå +ÉÆiÉÉÌ´É−] ÉʺÉ{ÉEÉÉÊ®¶ÉÉå iÉlÉÉ +ÉvªÉÉªÉ {ÉÉÆSÉ àÉå +ÉÆiÉÉÌ´É−] ÉʺÉ{ÉEÉÉÊ®¶ÉÉå BÉEä ºÉƤÉÆvÉ àÉå +ÉÆÉÊiÉàÉ =kÉ®Éå {É® ºÉ®BÉEÉ® uÉ®É BÉEÉÒ-MÉ<Ç-BÉEɪÉÇ´ÉÉcÉÒ* 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6838 STATEMENT RE: ISSUES RELATING TO SETTING UP OF A LOK PAL 1102 hours THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE): Madam Speaker, I rise to make a statement on issues relating to setting up of Lokpal on which a debate has been going on within the House and outside the House. At the outset, even taking the risk of repetition, I would like to once again request Shri Anna Hazare to end his fast in view of the appeal made by the hon. Prime Minister in his statement and the sentiments expressed by the hon. Leader of the Opposition and by the hon. Speaker of this August House on 25th August, 2011. Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence to recount the sequence of events which brought us to where we are today. On 5th of April, 2011, Shri Anna Hazare went on an indefinite fast. Of course, oral correspondence between the Government representatives and his representatives took place and ultimately on 8th April, 2011, the Government constituted a Joint Drafting Committee (JDC) consisting of five nominees of Shri Anna Hazare including himself and five nominee-Ministers appointed by the Government to prepare a draft of the Lokpal Bill. Shri Hazare ended his fast on 9th April, 2011. The Joint Drafting Committee met nine times during April-June 2011. In the first meeting of the Joint Drafting Committee on 16th April 2011, preliminary discussions were held to draft the legislation for the Lokpal. During the second meeting of the Committee, 40 Basic Principles and the Statement of Objects and Reasons were circulated by Shri Anna Hazare’s team which formed the basis of discussions in subsequent meetings of the Committee. There were extensive deliberations on these basic principles’ wherein the scope and vision of the proposed Lokpal were discussed. Out of the 40 Basic Principles, we had agreement on 20 issues; we had agreement with the editorial changes on seven 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6839 issues; on seven issues, we had agreement in principle subject to further discussions. That takes into account 20+7+7 = 34. There were divergences of views between the representatives of the Government and the representatives of the Civil Society on the vision and scope of the Lokpal on six major issues. I Comment: cd. by b1 would like to explain these six major issues. Comment: Mukher cd (b1/1105/brv-jr) Should one single Act be provided for both the Lokpal in the Centre and Lokayukt in the States? Would the State Governments be willing to accept a draft provision for the Lokayukt on the same lines as that of the Lokpal? Should the Prime Minister be brought within the purview of the Lokpal? If the answer is in the affirmative, should there be a qualified inclusion? The third issue was: Should judges of the Supreme Court and High Court be brought within the purview of the Lokpal? The fourth issue was: Should the conduct of the Members of Parliament inside Parliament (speaking and voting in the House) be brought within the purview of the Lokpal? This protection to Lok Sabha Members, Members of Parliament is provided under Article 105, Clause 2 of the Constitution. The fifth issue was: Whether Articles 311 and 320 (3) ( c ) of the Constitution notwithstanding members of a civil service of the Union or an All- India Service or a civil service of a State or a person holding a civil post under the Union or State, be subject to enquiry and disciplinary action including dismissal/removal by the Lokpal/Lokayukta, as the case may be. The last point was: What should be the definition of the Lokpal, and should it itself exercise quasi-judicial powers also or delegate these powers to its subordinate officers? Because, it was agreed that the Lokpal would be a totally independent organisation, it would have its own set up, officers will be appointed by the Lokpal and the expenditure of the Lokpal will not be voted by the Parliament. It will be charged as the amounts spent by the Supreme Court are charged, not voted by Parliament. 27.08.2011 Uncorrected / Not for Publication 6840 On 31st May 2011, I wrote to the Preisdents of various political parties and the Chief Ministers of States soliciting their views on these six contentious issues.