REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE (FOURTEENTH )

(Presented to the Speaker, Lok Sabha on ………… November, 2008) (Laid on the Table of Lok Sabha on ………… December, 2008)

LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW December, 2008/Agrahayana, 1930 (Saka) © 2008 BY Published under Rule 382 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha (Eleventh Edition) and printed by M/s. Jainco Art , . CONTENTS

Page No. Personnel of the Committee ...... (iii) Report ...... 1 Notes given by Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav, Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra and Shri Mohd. Salim, MPs ...... 61 Minutes of sittings of Committee ...... 85 Verbatim Proceedings of the sittings of Committee ...... 127

APPENDICES

APPENDIX I Communication dated 23.7.2008 addressed to Speaker, Lok Sabha by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN...... 335

APPENDIX II Jointly signed statement dated 25.7.2008 given by S/Shri Ashok Argal, Faggan Singh Kulaste and Mahavir Bhagora ...... 336

APPENDIX III Joint letter dated 01.08.2008 from S/Shri Ashok Argal, Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs ...... 339

APPENDIX IV Joint letter dated 03-08-2008 from S/Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs...... 340

APPENDIX V Joint letter dated 04.08.2008 from S/Shri Ashok Argal and Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs ...... 367

APPENDIX VI Letter dated 19.08.2008 from Shri A.B. Bardhan, General Secretary, CPI...... 372

APPENDIX VII Letter dated 19.08.2008 from Shri. Ashok Argal, MP ...... 376

APPENDIX VIII Transcripts of tapes provided by CNN-IBN ...... 378

APPENDIX IX Written submissions dated 14.8.2008 filed by Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni . 385

APPENDIX X Written submissions dated 12.8.2008 filed by Shri Suhail Hindustani .... 400

APPENDIX XI OM dated 26.09.2008 from the Department of Financial Services, Ministry of Finance with regard to furnishing details of persons/ entities who had withdrawn the currency notes from various banks...... 406

(i) Page No.

APPENDIX XII Communication dated 1.10.2008 from the Department of Telecommunications, Ministry of Communications and IT re. Call Detail Records...... 407

APPENDIX XIII OM dated 17.10.2008 from Ministry of Home Affairs re. Deployment of MP Police at Shri Argal’s residence ...... 432

APPENDIX XIV Note on procedure for dealing with complaints against members of the other House ...... 435

APPENDIX XV Note on ‘Narco-analysis Test’...... 439

APPENDIX XVI Report of Technical Peer Review Committee for Brain Electro Physiology Based Technologies ...... 441

APPENDIX XVII News report appearing in ‘’ dated 18.8.2008 ... 464

APPENDIX XVIII News report appearing in ‘The Economic Times’ dated 18.8.2008 .... 465

APPENDIX XIX News report appearing in ‘The Indian Express’ dated 6.10.2008 ... 466

(ii) PERSONNEL OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE (14TH LOK SABHA)

Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri P.D.T. Achary — Secretary-General 2. Shri V.K. Sharma — Additional Secretary 3. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 4. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 5. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary

(iii) REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON MOTION OF CONFIDENCE (Fourteenth Lok Sabha)

I. Introduction and Procedure I, the Chairman of the Committee to Inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence having been authorized by the Committee to submit the Report on their behalf, present this their Report to the Speaker. 2. The Committee held eleven sittings. The relevant minutes of these sittings form part of the Report and are appended hereto. 3. At their first sitting held on 30 July, 2008, the Committee held preliminary deliberations on the matter. The Committee also decided their future course of action in the matter. 4. At their second sitting held on 4 August, 2008, the Committee viewed and heard the tapes furnished by CNN-IBN news channel in the matter. The Committee also decided to hear Sarvashri Ashok Argal, Faggan Singh Kulaste and Mahavir Bhagora, MPs, in the matter. 5. At their third sitting held on 7 August, 2008, the Committee examined on oath Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs. The Committee received a communication from Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MP stating that he was not in a position to appear before the Committee for oral evidence as he had undergone a bypass heart surgery and was still in the hospital in Ahmedabad. 6. At their fourth sitting held on 11 August, 2008, the Committee examined on oath Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN, and Sarvashri Rohit Khanna, Saif R. Kidwai, Siddhartha Gautam, Sudesh Bhatt and Karamveer, members of the CNN-IBN sting operation team. 7. At their fifth sitting held on 18 August, 2008 the Committee examined on oath Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP, and Sarvashri Sudheendra Kulkarni, Sanjeev Saxena and Suhail Hindustani, whose names were mentioned by Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs during their evidence before the Committee. On 26 August, 2008, the Committee inspected the bundles of currency notes (in the room of Secretary-General, Lok Sabha, where they were kept under lock and key) which were placed on

1 the Table by Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MPs on 22 July, 2008. 8. At their sixth sitting held on 27 August, 2008, the Committee deliberated on the matter. 9. At their seventh sitting held on 11 September, 2008, the Committee again deliberated on the matter. 10. At their eighth sitting held on 25 September, 2008, the Committee were scheduled to hear Shri Hashmat Ali, driver of Zen car, which went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence on 22 July, 2008. As Shri Hashmat Ali did not appear before the Committee to give his evidence, the Committee directed the Secretariat to prepare draft Report in the matter. 11. At their ninth sitting held on 6 October, 2008, the Committee considered their draft Report. Members expressed their views. 12. At their tenth sitting held on 17 October, 2008, the Committee considered their revised draft Report. Copies of (i) the letter dated 15 October, 2008, addressed to the Chairman of the Committee by Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav; and (ii) the letter dated 16 October, 2008, addressed to the Chairman of the Committee by Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra were circulated to the members of the Committee. The Committee took note of the suggestions made in the said letters for incorporating changes in their draft Report. 13. At their eleventh sitting held on 30 October, 2008, the Committee considered their final draft Report. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra and Shri Mohd. Salim, members of the Committee expressed reservations about findings, conclusions and recommendations of the Report and observed that they would like to give notes of dissent. They were accordingly granted them time upto 5 PM on 6 November, 2008 to give notes of dissent. The Report was, thereafter adopted. The Committee authorized the Chairman to present the Report to the Speaker, Lok Sabha after appending thereto notes/notes of dissent that may be given by the members.

II. Facts of the case 14. On 22 July, 2008 during the debate on the Motion of Confidence in the Council of Ministers, at about 16.04 hrs. Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MPs came to the well of the House with two bags. The members took out wads of currency notes from the bags with them and started placing the same on the Table of the House. Amidst pandemonium, the Deputy Speaker who was in the Chair adjourned the House till 16.15 hrs. [The House was, thereafter, adjourned twice i.e. at 16.19 hrs. till 17.00 hrs. and again at 17.00 hrs. till 18.00 hrs.]. 15. Thereafter, when the House met at 18.00 hrs. the Speaker made the following observation: “Hon. Members…some time back, when my distinguished colleague, hon. Deputy-Speaker was presiding over the proceedings of the House, certain incidents have taken place, which according to me, are most unfortunate. It is a very sad day in the history of Parliament that such a situation has happened. Thereafter, I called a meeting of the hon. Leaders. I am grateful to the hon. Leader of Opposition. He was very kindly present also. We have heard the three hon. Members of the House. They had some complaints to make. I had requested them to put their complaints in writing to me. I assured them, I assured the leaders and I assure the House that all possible steps that are required in that connection

2 will be taken by me as a custodian of this House. It is my duty to do that and I seek the cooperation of all sections of the House. Please allow me to apply my judgment, look into the matter, and I can assure you nobody will be spared if found guilty.” 16. Since requisite comments of three members were not received till the evening of 23.7.2008, letters were sent requesting them to expedite their statements/comments. 17. In the meanwhile, a communication1 dated 23 July, 2008 addressed to the Speaker by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN IBN Network was received wherein he inter alia stated as follows:— “I write this in the context of the fallout of the allegations of horse-trading and the cash for votes controversy that was raised in Parliament during the trust vote debate on Tuesday. CNN-IBN for the past week has been carrying out an investigation into allegations of horse- trading based on various leads; allegations that we believed are strongly in the public interest and needed to be investigated. Some of these allegations found mention during the trust vote debate and involved a recording done by our news channel. Since our investigation was an ongoing one and we were still in the process of investigation and verification, we chose not to air the tapes till we had fully completed the process…However, since some of the allegations made in the tapes have already found their way into the public domain, we felt that it was prudent to hand over the recordings that we have collected so far to the appropriate authority. Since the matter in question involves honourable members of Parliament, we felt that it would be appropriate to hand it over to the Speaker’s office for any further action...” Shri Sardesai enclosed five DVC PRO Panasonic video tapes containing the video footage of the sting operation. He provided two more tapes to the Speaker, Lok Sabha on 26 July, 2008. 18. Sarvashri Ashok Argal, Faggan Singh Kulaste and Mahavir Bhagora, MPs submitted a jointly signed statement2 on 25 July, 2008 to the Speaker, Lok Sabha. The members in their joint statement stated as follows:— (i) The UPA Government lost its majority on 9 July, 2008 when the Left parties withdrew support to it. This led to respected Rashtrapatiji asking the Prime Minister to seek the trust of the House in a special session of the Lok Sabha on 21-22 July, 2008. (ii) Even though the had pleaded its support to the UPA Government on 9 July, it was obvious from the numerical representation of various parties in the House that the UPA Government was in no position to prove its majority without engineering defections from the non-UPA ranks. Leaders of the Congress and the Samajwadi Party started boasting about large-scale defections from non-UPA parties. Some sections of the media even published names of non-UPA MPs who were going to either vote for the Government or abstain from voting. On 14 July, Shri A.B. Bardhan, General Secretary of the alleged at a public rally in New Delhi that the Congress-led UPA was indulging in horse-trading and mentioned an ongoing rate of Rs. 25 crore per MP.

1 Please see Appendix-I. 2 Please see Appendix-II.

3 (iii) On 20 July, Shri Amar Singh announced at a press conference in New Delhi that BJP MP, Shri Brij Bhushan Sharan Singh, would support the Government in the trust vote. With Shri Brij Bhushan Sharan Singh by his side at the widely covered press conference, Shri Amar Singh also claimed that more non-UPA MPs would defect soon. “We have opened our first card,” he stated. “When we open our other cards on 22 July, many will be taken aback.” (iv) Apart from MPs from other non-UPA parties and independent MPs, our names also were being mentioned in the list of ‘soft targets’ and that we were vulnerable. Many power brokers through their intermediaries contacted us but we did not take their approaches seriously. When we were approached directly, we decided to expose the masterminds of the cash-for-votes racket. (v) We contacted CNN-IBN news channel, which deputed its correspondent Shri Siddhartha Gautam to record the whistle-blowing operation and to expose the UPA’s unethical plot to convert its minority Government into majority Government by stooping to any levels. (vi) In the first instance, on July 21, one of the intermediaries took us to Le-Meridian hotel where he said that a senior Congress leader would meet us and give us money for abstaining in the trust vote. This meeting, however, did not materialize. (vii) Late in the evening on July 21, we received a message from Shri Rewati Raman Singh, a senior leader of the Samajwadi Party and its MP that he would meet us at the residence of Shri Ashok Argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road. He came after midnight. He promised us that our interests would be taken care of and that we should accompany him to meet Shri Amar Singh. He further maintained that we should have a face-to- face meeting with Shri Amar Singh and that he would settle all issues including the amount payable to us. The entire meeting and conversation was recorded by the CNN-IBN team, which had bugged the room with hidden cameras. (viii) The next morning, on July 22, two of us—namely, Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste—were taken for the meeting with Shri Amar Singh at his residence at 27, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi. We went in car No. DL-7S-1882, a white Maruti Zen. Our car was followed by CNN-IBN’s car with Shri Siddhartha Gautam. Our visit to Shri Amar Singh’s residence and back was video recorded by the CNN-IBN reporter. (ix) We met Shri Amar Singh at his residence. He boasted that although he had already “managed” the requisite number, still since Shri Rewati Raman Singh had met us and arranged the meeting, he would pay Rs. 3 crore each for abstaining from voting on July 22. We mentioned that we have one more MP willing to abstain. He agreed to pay the same amount to the third MP. Thereafter, he spoke to Shri Ahmed Patel on phone and said, “I have three more Kamals (Lotuses) here.” He also made us speak to Shri Ahmed Patel, who gave his consent to the arrangement. (x) Shri Amar Singh offered to pay us an initial token amount of Rs. one crore and asked us to carry it with us. We declined, saying it was unsafe with journalists standing outside his residence. Shri Amar Singh promised to send the amount with his assistant, Shri Sanjeev Saxena, within 15 minutes.

4 (xi) As per Shri Amar Singh’s promise, his assistant, who indeed identified himself as Shri Sanjeev Saxena, arrived at 4, Ferozeshah Road soon after our reaching there. He and his colleague came in a white Gypsy car No. DL-2C-S-8562, which was noted down by our staff. He was led into the same drawing room, which had already been bugged with hidden cameras. Shri Saxena and one more person accompanying him had carried the money in a bag and emptied its contents on a table in front of the chairs on which we were sitting. The amount of Rs. 1 crore was in ten bundles of Rs. 10 lakhs each, most of it in currency notes of Rs. 1000. (xii) Shri Saxena asked for the identification of the third MP, whom Shri Ashok Argal introduced as Shri Mahavir Bhagora. Shri Saxena kept trying to connect Shri Amar Singh’s telephone number, which was repeatedly coming busy. Finally, he got all three of us to speak to Shri Amar Singh. After we three spoke to Shri Amar Singh, Shri Saxena gave the money to us on behalf of Shri Amar Singh. This money of Rs. one crore was the initial token amount and the balance of Rs. 8 crore was promised to be paid later. The CNN-IBN team also recorded this entire episode. (xiii) Besides, Shri Siddhartha Gautam, three more persons from the CNN-IBN team were present in Shri Argal’s residence. Also present in the residence was one of our Party colleagues. (xiv) After Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s departure, the CNN-IBN team rearranged the bundles on the table and captured on camera the serial numbers of the first and the last currency notes in each of the ten bundles. (xv) Thereafter, Shri Siddhartha Gautam conducted an elaborate interview with us in the same room, with the amount of Rs. 1 crore placed in front of us on the table. The interview was recorded on a regular camera and included a full narration of the entire sequence of two days. (xvi) Shri Siddhartha Gautam then recorded an introduction for a promo to the investigative report which, among other things, said, “For the first time in the history of Indian Parliament, the scandal of horse-trading has been captured on camera by the investigative team of CNN-IBN.” (xvii) The CNN-IBN team completed their recordings, removed their bugging equipments from the room and left the residence of Shri Ashok Argal at around noon on July 22. Before departing, the team assured us that the programme, along with the promo, would be telecast soon. (xviii) At around 4.10 pm, we walked up to the Table of the Secretary-General, in front of the Speaker’s Chair, took out the money from the bags and displayed it before all the hon’ble Members as tell-tale proof of the “cash for votes” scandal. We also wanted to establish before Parliament and the nation the level to which the UPA had stooped to procure a majority, which they did not have. In doing so, we were motivated by the desire to save democracy from pernicious influence of money power. (xix) The House was adjourned and we were called to your Chamber. We narrated all the events to your hon’ble self in the presence of leaders of various political parties. The money given by Shri Amar Singh was deposited in your office against receipt.

5 (xx) In view of the gravity of the bribery scandal and blatant inducement to members of Parliament to defy their party whips, illegally help the Government to cobble a majority, and thereby subvert Constitutional and parliamentary norms, we would request you to take prompt and the most stringent action against the wrong-doers to uphold the dignity of democracy. (xxi) This attempt to subvert the functioning of Parliament by inducements and bribery, especially in a session devoted to the confidence motion, besides being a matter of violation of ethics is also a breach of privilege. We reserve our right to initiate criminal law action in the matter. 19. On 26 July, 2008, the Speaker, Lok Sabha appointed an Inquiry Committee consisting of following members:— (i) Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo—Chairman (ii) Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra (iii) Shri Md. Salim (iv) Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav (v) Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav (vi) Shri Rajesh Verma (vii) Shri C. Kuppusamy The Committee were requested to give their Report by 11.00 AM on 11 August, 2008. The Committee were also requested to follow their own procedure. III. Communications addressed to the Committee by the complainants and others 20. On 1 August, 2008 Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs vide their letter3 (jointly signed), addressed to the Chairman, Inquiry Committee stated as follows:— “We had sent a complaint to the Hon’ble Speaker on 24 July, 2008 wherein we had stated that efforts were made to compel us to abstain from voting on the ‘vote of confidence’. Since the complaint was sent hurriedly some inadvertent errors had crept in. We wish to correct a typographical error in paragraph 9 on page 4 wherein we had mentioned the number of white Gypsy as DL-2C-S-8562 whereas the actual number should read as DL-3C-S-8562. Similarly, we had erroneously mentioned the number of white Zen in paragraph 7 of page 3 as DL-7S- 1882 whereas the correct number should read as DL-5CC-7218. This mistake occurred on account of the hurried manner in which the wrong number from the two numbers noted on a note pad was written in the complaint. In fact, the correct number was the other number on the note pad. We are sure that this correct number will be borne out by the video tapes in your custody. As our colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagora is hospitalized; he could not append his signature to this letter. Hence, we are bringing this to your notice to ensure that the records are put straight.”

3 Please see Appendix-III.

6 21. On 3 August, 2008 Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste addressed a letter4 to the Chairman of the Inquiry Committee furnishing further submissions in the matter as follows:— “On July 25, 2008 we had submitted to you a detailed representation alleging efforts to use unfair means including bribery to induce us to abstain from voting in the Vote of Confidence debate in the Lok Sabha on 21st and 22nd July, 2008. We had stated that the entire effort was to contact us through Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP to persuade us to meet Shri Amar Singh, General Secretary, Samajwadi Party. After this meeting an initial amount of Rs. one crore was paid to us and an independent TV channel CNN-IBN recorded the same. We had expected the channel to telecast the entire expose but unfortunately it has not done so. The channel has now publicly stated that its investigations in the matter were not complete and it was, therefore, unable to telecast the expose. However, it is evident that the channel did not make any effort to either pursue or telecast its investigation for the knowledge and information of the Indian public. In the absence of the channel having performed its public duty, we along with our colleagues have continued to pursue this matter and have several facts to place before you and the Inquiry Committee. These facts will conclusively establish beyond reasonable doubt the veracity of what we had complained. The entire expose comprises three stages: I. The offer as made by Shri Rewati Raman Singh, an MP from Samajwadi Party. II. The meeting between the two of us and Shri Amar Singh and the conversation that he facilitated between us and Shri Ahmed Patel on telephone. III. The advance amount sent to us by Shri Amar Singh through his associate/assistant, Shri Sanjeev Saxena. We are now placing before you the complete record of each of the above three stages. STAGE-I: THE OFFER We have already mentioned in our complaint that late in the evening of July 21, 2008 we received a message from Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP that he would meet us at the residence of Shri Ashok Argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road. The living room of Shri Ashok Argal had been bugged and fitted with secret cameras and audio devices by CNN-IBN news channel which had deputed its correspondent Shri Siddhartha Gautam along with some other staff members to expose the corruption being practiced in the course of the vote of confidence in the Lok Sabha. Shri Rewati Raman Singh repeatedly induced us to meet Shri Amar Singh. We were also keen to know his real intention. The extracts of our conversation with Shri Rewati Raman Singh, inter alia, include the following relevant sentences as would be evident from the audio and video recording available with you. Rewati Raman Singh: ...I am with you, let’s go, I am there with you, come, I am with you* ... Rewati Raman Singh: Come on, enough now, let’s go, you come with me, I will talk in front of you, otherwise whole night we will keep saying that you go and talk. I have already spoken and that’s why I have come here. Mahavir Singh: No it was something else. Rewati Raman Singh: What is the matter, tell me... Mahavir Singh: You would have not talked about the amount...

4 Please see Appendix-IV. * Original in Hindi.

7 Rewati Raman Singh: I have not talked about the amount, I have not spoken, and we shall talk about the amount in front of you only. We shall talk in front of you, you talk it will be done. If you want to talk about money, you talk otherwise you go to your home…about the amount…we shall talk, how can I talk...how do I know what you have... Faggan Singh: No that is not the issue see after talking only a person gets an idea? Rewati Raman Singh: Ta lks are held everywhere, we talk face to face, and we talk at the back also. If you like the offer then it is ok, why are you getting so upset about it? I have come to your residence... Rewati Raman Singh: That’s why I am saying, lets go and talk face to face, if you like then it is ok, if not then leave it. Nobody is forcing you. If you say, I can still postpone it. If you like then only you talk, if you don’t like then it is over. Then you go to your home and I shall go to mine. No, we shall talk face to face. All you three should be satisfied. No one would come to know there, come on let’s go. Rewati Raman Singh: What is there to feel upset about. It is only a matter of 10 minutes. Just sit for 10 minutes and everything will be over. What do I talk on phone, what can I talk on phone. You have got the audio and videotapes. We are enclosing the transcript of the tapes with this representation. We believe this to be the true transcript. We understand that the channel has submitted several CDs to the Hon’ble Speaker, which have been handed over to the Committee. We are unaware of the authenticity of those CDs. When the channel had placed the secret cameras and audio devices in the living room of Shri Ashok Argal, we were given to understand that the audio recording of the audio devices would be much better than the audio recording on the video cameras. Thus, if the video cameras, the audio CD and the transcript of the conversation are seen, heard or read separately, it may be difficult for members of the Committee to co-relate the same. It is, therefore, important that the video CD is juxtaposed with the audio recording and the transcript so as to give the members of the hon’ble committee, a clear and fair idea of what is contained in the cassettes itself. An attempt is already being made to create false evidence and to deny the veracity of what we have said. An attempt will be made by those who are targets of this investigation to blur the voice quality of the tapes (such attempts may already have been made). The Committee should, therefore, use the services of voice enhancement equipment so that the names and the statements made in the tapes are audible. The Committee would be required to examine the following evidence in order to determine the veracity of our charges, on the first limb:— (i) Cross examination of Shri Rewati Raman Singh in order to extract the truth from him as to in what context he was trying to persuade the three of us to meet someone in person and who this someone was. It had already been made clear to us that the person in question was Shri Amar Singh, the General Secretary of Samajwadi Party. (ii) The statement of the three complainant MPs should also be recorded. (iii) The reporter of the Staff members of the CNN-IBN who organized the recording and who were present at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence in the adjacent room when the recording was done. Their evidence would be an independent corroboration of what is contained in the tape. (iv) The statements, evidence of the three MPs and the reporter and staff members of CNN-IBN would corroborate every word in the CDs. 8 STAGE-II: THE MEETING The next morning on July, 22, 2008, the two of us Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste were taken to Shri Amar Singh’s residence at 27, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi. We went there in a white Maruti Zen. A CNN-IBN car followed our car with its reporter, which contained the CNN-IBN team. The channel recorded our visit to Shri Amar Singh’s residence and back. We have already mentioned the conversation Shri Amar Singh had with two of us in the complaint. He had also made us speak to Shri Ahmed Patel on phone. The fact that Shri Amar Singh met us is conclusively proved by the following: (i) Our driving to the residence of Shri Amar Singh and back and the same is clearly visible on the video recordings. (ii) The oral evidence of the CNN-IBN team which followed our vehicle from 4, Ferozeshah Road to 27, Lodhi Estate and back to 4, Ferozeshah Road. (iii) Computer records of the telephones of Shri Amar Singh and Ahmed Patel should be obtained and the factum of Shri Amar Singh having spoken to Shri Ahmed Patel and made him speak to us from his residence on the morning of 22nd July, 2008 be established. STAGE-III: THE PAYMENT—THE MOST CRUCIAL PHASE This is the most crucial part of the investigation. Why should a person called Shri Sanjeev Saxena come to 4, Ferozeshah Road to make payment of the first instalment of Rs. one crore. Shri Sanjeev Saxena has been working as a part of the staff of Shri Amar Singh for quite some time. Shri Amar Singh had offered to make payment to us when we went to his residence but we refused to walk out with the payment on the ground that there were media persons outside the gate. Soon after we reached the residence of Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Sanjeev Saxena arrived with one colleague. The cameras fitted by the CNN-IBN team recorded their entire movement and conversation in the room. The entire transcript of the conversation as recorded in the room conclusively establishes that Shri Sanjeev Saxena came as a representative of Shri Amar Singh to deliver the money, made the complainants speak to Shri Amar Singh and repeatedly dialed the phone number of Shri Amar Singh from his own mobile phone. The relevant resume of the evidence in this regard is as under: The Scene and the conversation Sanjeev Saxena: Dialing a number from his mobile. Mahavir Singh: With Amar Singh ji ? Ashok: Yes. Mahavir: What did you tell your name? Sanjeev: Sanjeev. Mahavir: If once I could talk to Amar Singh ji... Sanjeev: His number is busy at present... Mahavir: Is this all (refers to money)? Sanjeev: I have not counted it. I brought it as it was given.

9 Mahavir: You should have counted it, ha ha. Ashok: I have already spoken, Your remaining (share), you did not come at that time, otherwise it would have been done there itself. (This corroborates that only two MPs had gone in the morning and spoken about the third) Mahavir: I had to go for some work. Sanjeev (on the phone): Conversation is going on. When it is over let me know. Sanjeev: Ok. Ashok: If once I could have talks. Sanjeev: Yes. Ashok: Connect him once to Sahab.. Sanjeev: Yes, at present Sahab’s phone is busy. Mahavir: Can you do one more thing? Is this is for both? Ashok: This is only a token money. Mahavir: That is what I am saying... Ashok: You will have to trust. Sanjeev’s phone rings. Sanjeev: Yes Sir, Ashok ji aur Mahavir Singh Bhagora ji want to talk to you, they are sitting here only. Ashok: Hello, hello, I had told about Mahavir Bagaora ji, he has come, please talk to him (hands over the phone to Mahavir). Mahavir: Hello, Namaskar, I could not come in the morning because our CM had come, Rajasthan’s CM had come, that’s why I could not come to you in the morning. Right now I have come to the residence of Shri Ashok Argal, MP. At present I am at his residence...please talk. Sanjeev: Yes sir, Sanjeev speaking. Yes, one Ashok ji and another Mahavir Singh Bhagora ji are from Rajasthan, who were talking to you…Bhagora Bhagora, yes Kulaste ji,..Yes Sir, I just connect you…please talk. (Hands the phone to Ashok Argal) Ashok: Received one crore, received full one crore, received one crore. Yes, it is ok. I know, ok Sir… It is clear from the above extracts, the complete version of which is enclosed that Shri Sanjeev Saxena came on behalf of Shri Amar Singh to deliver the money to the three of us. Since Shri Mahavir Bhagora could not meet Shri Amar Singh in the morning it was important for him to get Shri Mahavir Bhagora to speak to Amar Singh. After delivering the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, Shri Sanjeev Saxena made all of us to speak to Shri Amar Singh. The principal question, which the Inquiry Committee should address itself to, is as to why Shri Sanjeev Saxena brought the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh during the vote on ‘Confidence Motion’.

10 Lying is an important circumstance against Shri Amar Singh. He immediately denied on 22nd July, 2008 evening that he did not know anybody called Sanjeev Saxena. Subsequently, answering a question to some media persons he also admitted that Sanjeev Saxena earlier worked with him but no longer. The crucial question thus is who is Sanjeev Saxena and what is his relationship with Shri Amar Singh. This question is conclusively answered by the following facts: — (1) The video recording would show that one of the persons present on the CD, seeks the mobile number of Shri Sanjeev Saxena who gave the number of mobile phone. He was carrying his mobile phone number i.e. 9811721499. This phone even otherwise is regularly used by Shri Sanjeev Saxena and is registered in the name of a company, namely, M/s HFCL. The phone is in the name of HFCL c/o Sanjeev Saxena and registered at his address H-186 Ramakrishan Vihar, IP Extension, Plot No.29, New Delhi. M/s HFCL is a corporate group, which is known to be close to Shri Amar Singh. (2) Shri Sanjeev Saxena has been using this phone number to send various SMS messages to various persons including Press reporters on the political beat in Delhi. The Vote of Confidence took place on 21-22 July, 2008. An illustration of such a message sent to the entire political media of Delhi on 20th July, 2008 at 5.23 PM read as under: “MR. AMAR SINGH WILL ADDRESS A PC TODAY (20-7-08) AT 7 PM AT 27 LODHI ESTATE. THANKS AND REGARDS : SANJEEV SAXENA” This was the Press Conference in which Shri Amar Singh announced the defection of Shri Brij Bhushan Saran Singh, MP. The fact that Shri Sanjeev Saxena was giving messages from his phone informing Press reporters about the Press Conference of Shri Amar Singh as late as on 20 July, 2008 makes it clear that he was working with Shri Amar Singh till that day. (3) Shri Sanjeev Saxena came to the residence of Shri Ashok Argal along with his colleague in a White Gypsy Regn. No. DL3CS 8562. This car is registered in the name of M/s Pankaja Art and Credit, c/o E-593, GK-II, New Delhi, a firm belonging to Amar Singh’s family. This firm belongs to members of the family of Shri Amar Singh and is registered at his private residence E-593, Greater Kailash-II, New Delhi where he earlier stayed before becoming an MP. (4) The clinching evidence with regard to association of Shri Amar Singh and Shri Sanjeev Saxena is inbuilt in the cassette itself. Shri Sanjeev Saxena makes the three MPs speak to Shri Amar Singh over phone. The phone gets repeatedly disconnected. He re-dials the phone repeatedly and gets the MPs to speak to Shri Amar Singh. He also speaks to Amar Singh himself. All this is recorded in the record of Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile phone No. 9811721499. The computer record of this phone clearly shows that all these calls have been made to phone No. 011 24616827. This phone is registered in the name of Shri Amar Singh at his residence 27-Lodhi Estate, New Delhi-3. Men can lie but circumstances don’t. If during the period when Shri Sanjeev Saxena was at the residence of Shri Ashok Argal, the telephone records show repeated phone calls to the phone installed at Amar Singh’s residence and the video recording shows that he dials the phone repeatedly and gets the MPs to speak to Amar Singh. There cannot be better clinching evidence than this. The number of phone calls shown on the computer records of Phone No. 9811721499 clearly is as

11 many as the number of calls connected by Shri Sanjeev Saxena on the video recordings. The fact that he is calling up the landline of Shri Amar Singh is also recorded on the video CDs. The mobile phone record of Sanjeev Saxena is appended herewith. (5) With the advent of technology, the movement of a person can be got determined from the movement of his mobile phone. The movement of Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile phone on the morning of 22 July, 2008 shows that after 10 AM he had left Lodhi Estate and reached Ferozeshah Road. This movement can be determined from the record of the telephone service provider which clearly shows that at 10 AM he had left Cell Tower having jurisdiction over Lodi Estate and reached the area in and around Ferozeshah Road which came under a different Cell Tower jurisdiction. A record of Sanjeev Saxena’s phone is enclosed with this representation. The Committee should summon the entire record of the telephone service provider of phone number 9811721499. The phone calls made from this number to Shri Amar Singh’s landline are from the Cell tower covering 4, Ferozeshah Road. All phone calls made from the mobile phones of Sanjeev Saxena and even his colleague should be identified and inquired into whether they were made to the numbers available with Shri Amar Singh. (6) Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile phone No. 9811721499 went into disuse immediately after the ‘Cash for Vote’ scam was shown in Parliament. This shows the guilty intention of Sanjeev Saxena. (7) Shri Sanjeev Saxena and his family has now gone into hiding after the expose and shifted out of his residence H-186, Ramakrishan Vihar, IP Extension, New Delhi. (8) On 1st August, 2008, Uma Bharti made public a make believe CD showing Shri Sanjeev Saxena coming out of 9, Ashoka Road and entering 4, Ferozeshah Road. This was a play-acting recording done after 22.07.2008 as is evident from the hoarding at Shri Argal’s residence at 4, Ferozeshah Road. Dushyant Gautam who put up the hoarding made the payment for this hoarding on 24/7/2008 and the hoarding was put up on 25/7/2008. The necessary documents in this regard are enclosed herewith. Not only does the presence of the hoarding put up on 25/7/2008 demolish this false evidence, there is another fundamental flaw in it. In the fake play acted CD that Sanjeev Saxena has facilitated he is carrying a black bag which is entirely different from the ‘Thaila type much larger bag’ in the CD recorded by CNN-IBN. This clearly shows that Shri Sanjeev Saxena even on and after 22/07/2008 was in the control of those who recorded the CD for play acting. Sushri Uma Bharti released a CD after meeting Shri Amar Singh. Both of them should be summoned before this Committee. Shri Sanjeev Saxena is under the complete control of Shri Amar Singh. His subsequent CD is recorded at the will of Shri Amar Singh and he disappears at Shri Amar Singh’s convenience. (9) The oral evidence of the three MPs that Shri Sanjeev Saxena came to deliver money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh is key evidence which substantiates the contents of the CD. (10) The contents of the CD are further corroborated by the CNN-IBN team, which was present at 4, Ferozshah Road at the time when this transaction was recorded. The payment by Shri Sanjeev Saxena on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, the link of Shri Saxena to Shri Amar Singh, the phone calls made by Shri Sanjeev Saxena from 4, Ferozeshah Road to

12 Shri Amar Singh and the video contents of CD conclusively prove that the money was sent by Shri Amar Singh to bribe the 3 MPs to abstain from the Vote of Confidence. This is direct evidence which can be corroborated by the statements of the MPs and the members of the CNN-IBN team. We have been constrained to analyse the entire evidence and present it to you so that the same can be given to all members of the Committee who then have the benefit of the entire transaction as visible on the CD. We have expressed our fear that the CD that has been submitted later requires to be authenticated and then juxtaposed with the contents of the audio recording and the transcript of the CD if available. All supporting documents in regard to our above submissions are being enclosed as Annexures to this representation. As our colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagora is hospitalized, he could not append his signature to this representation. Transcript of video recording done at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence at different times and extracts from computer records of mobile No. 9811724479 were enclosed with the letter. 22. On 4 August, 2008 Shri Ashok Argal and Faggan Singh Kulaste addressed a letter5 to the Chairman of the Inquiry Committee furnishing further submissions in the matter as follows: “…To reinforce our assertions, we enclose a copy of the admission form of Dayal Singh College, New Delhi where Shri Samarth Saxena, son of Shri Sanjeev Saxena sought admission to an undergraduate course in the current academic session (2008-09). Column 5 of the application form calls for certain personal particulars like father’s name, mother’s name, occupation and designation, office address, telephone number(s) etc. It may be seen from the details filled in Column No. 5 in the admission form by the applicant i.e., Samarth Saxena, that his father’s name is Shri Sanjeev Saxena, occupation and designation as Service and Manager and office address as 27, Lodhi Estate which happens to be the official residence of Shri Amar Singh, MP (). The telephone No.(s) is mentioned as 32565397 which is a landline telephone connection installed at the said premises i.e. 27, Lodhi Estate, as per the List of Members as in January, 2008 published by Rajya Sabha Secretariat mentioned at page 72. The mobile phone number mentioned in the column is 9811721499. It may be observed that the records of phone calls made from this mobile number 9811721499 to Shri Amar Singh have already been submitted by us vide our earlier letter referred to above. It may also be noticed that the application form has been signed by both Shri Sanjeev Saxena and Shri Samarth Saxena. As our colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagora is hospitalized, he could not sign this letter.” 23. On 19 August, 2008 Shri Ashok Argal addressed another letter6 to the Chairman of the Inquiry Committee making further submissions in the matter as under: “Please refer to the submission made vide our letter dated August 4, 2008, furnishing comprehensive proof of the intimate relationship between Shri Sanjeev Saxena and Shri Amar Singh, MP (Rajya Sabha), as recorded in the application form for admission in the Dayal Singh College, New Delhi, filled by Shri Samarth Saxena, son of Sanjeev Saxena mentioning, the employment details, office address, telephone number etc., all clearly linking Shri Sanjeev Saxena to Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS).

5 Please see Appendix-V. 6 Please see Appendix-VI.

13 I am now sending herewith a copy of the personal letter dated June 2, 2008 which Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) wrote to Mr. Deepak Malhotra, Principal of the Dayal Singh College, New Delhi, soliciting favourable consideration of the candidature of Shri Samarth Saxena for admission into B.Com. (H) course in 2008-09 under sports category and introducing him in writing to be the son of his Secretary. The exact sentence mentioned in the letter is ‘Shri Sanjeev Saxena, my Secretary, seeking admission for his son, Samarth Saxena’. The contents of the enclosed letter will strengthen further the veracity of our earlier submission that Shri Sanjeev Saxena has been an employee of Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) and his involvement in the activities of carrying and delivering ‘cash Rs. one crore’ on July 22, 2008 to us has been at the behest of Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) only. The enclosed evidence should put at rest doubts, if any, in the minds of the Hon’ble Committee about the link between Shri Amar Singh and Shri Sanjeev Saxena. As one of my colleagues, Shri Mahavir Bhagora continues to recuperating from post heart surgery, and other colleague Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste is away to his constituency that is the reason they could not sign this letter.” 24. On 19 August, 2008 Shri A.B. Bardhan, General Secretary, Communist Party of India, who was requested to furnish his comments on his remarks that MPs were being bought for Rs. 25 crores, addressed a letter7 to the Secretary-General, Lok Sabha stating as follows: “…First of all, I should like to state that I have nothing to do either with the three MPs who have made the complaint, nor with the sting operation taken by the CNN-IBN. I am in no way connected with, nor concerned in the entire episode under inquiry by the Committee. It appears from your letter that the three MPs as well as Shri Rajdeep Sardesai of the CNN-IBN have dragged in my name and referred to the speech I am supposed to have made on 14 July in a public rally in Delhi. The action of the 3 MPs and of the CNN-IBN is a result of their own decisions, and reference to any speech of mine is only incidental, and an afterthought to explain their own decision in the matter. They required no impulse from my side. It is true, I had referred in my speech on July 14, to the unethical maneuvers and operations by the ruling party, through allurements, intimidation, unimaginably huge amounts of money, and other foul means to suborn the loyalty and integrity of a number of MPs and convert a minority into a majority and thus win the trust vote. I gave vent to my anguish at this unprecedented horse-trading. I referred to an earlier incident way back in 1993 where 50 lakhs each had been paid to a number of MPs. With a much larger stake this time, and with the tremendous price rise and inflation between then and now, the figure of money being paid had gone up to several crores. I mentioned the figure of 25 crores only to emphasize the enormity of this attack and the subversion of our parliamentary system…” IV. CDs/DVDs/Transcript furnished by CNN-IBN, Shri , Shri Lalu Prasad, Shri Amar Singh, Shri and Ms. Uma Bharti 25. On 23 July, 2008 and 11 August, 2008 Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN furnished 5 DVC Pro Panasonic tapes to Speaker, Lok Sabha pertaining to the sting operation. Later he furnished two more tapes. He also furnished transcript8 of the tapes.

7 Please see Appendix-VI. 8 Please see Appendix-VIII.

14 26. On 1 August, 2008 Kum. Uma Bharti also handed over 2 DVDs to the Speaker, Lok Sabha relating to the matter under examination of the Committee. 27. On 2 August, 2008 Shri Amar Singh, MP, Rajya Sabha handed over to the Speaker, Lok Sabha a letter written by one Shri Tarun Goel together with a DVD relating to the matter under examination of the Committee. 28. On 4 August, 2008 Sarvashri Lalu Prasad and Ram Vilas Paswan, MPs and Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav addressed a letter to the Speaker, Lok Sabha along with which they furnished 6 DVDs relating to the matter. On 30 September, 2008, Shri Tarun Goel furnished three DVDs in support of his allegations that Shri Hashmat Ali had demanded money from Shri Amar Singh in lieu of giving evidence before the Inquiry Committee in favour of Shri Amar Singh.

V. Joint Examination of complainants (members) by the Committee 29. As per convention and well-established practice, the witnesses are called before the Committee separately for oral evidence. On 7 August, 2008, when Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs were to appear for oral evidence, some members of the Committee felt that since the complaint given by these members was jointly signed, both of them should be called and heard together. Some other members expressed reservations on calling both the members together on the ground that in doing so, the Committee would not only be deviating from the well-established procedure, they would also be depriving themselves of the opportunity to examine whether there were any inconsistencies in the testimony of the two members. However, in deference to the views of some members, the Committee heard both the members together. This calling of both the members together for evidence was done keeping in view the exceptional circumstances of the case and the same may not be treated as a precedent.

VI. EVIDENCE

Evidence of Shri Ashok Argal and Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs 30. The Committee invited the attention of Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, to the transcript of video recording enclosed with their letter dated 3 August, 2008 and asked them as to on what basis the transcript was prepared and whether there was any CD recording of that transcript available with them. Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste replied, “Sir, I have no information about this. Our one very senior friend Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni collected the information, made the transcript and gave it to us, which we finally handed over to you for inclusion in our complaint…we have no knowledge of any CD. We did not read the transcript either and we do not know the basis on which the transcript was prepared.” 31. When asked who was Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni and how did he get this information and whether he told him anything about the transcript, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste replied, “He is one of our Party functionaries. We had discussions among ourselves from where these points arose which were later summarized and included in the transcript.” 32. When asked who were the persons who did recording at his residence and who called them, Shri Argal replied, “ We talked about this with Shri Kulkarni. He only advised us and made all the arrangement.”

15 33. On being enquired whose room had been shown in the CD where the money was exchanged, when did it happen, when did he meet Shri Rewati Raman Singh and whether he had held any discussions earlier with him regarding money, Shri Ashok Argal replied, “It was my room and money was given on the morning of 22 July. Shri Rewati Raman came on the night of 21 July. I never talked to Shri Rewati Raman before that.” 34. On being asked when they went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence, Shri Argal replied that it was on the morning of 22 July. 35. When enquired, who were the persons sitting in white Maruti Zen who went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence on 22 July, and whom he met there and for how long and whether there was any talk of money there, Shri Ashok Argal replied, “Myself, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, Suhail Hindustani and driver. We only met Shri Amar Singh there for about half-an-hour. Shri Amar Singh spoke to Shri Ahmad Patel on phone about money. After that he said he would give us token money. We told him that as there are media persons outside his residence, we would not take the token money. Thereafter, he said the money would be sent at Shri Argal’s residence through Shri Sanjeev Saxena. He also introduced us to Shri Saxena.” 36. On being asked whether he also spoke to Shri Ahmad Patel from Shri Amar Singh’s residence and whether he recognized his voice, Shri Argal replied, “He (Amar Singh) got it confirmed (about money) from Shri Patel. He got us connected to Shri Patel. Shri Patel spoke to us also. As we had never spoken to Shri Patel earlier we can’t say we recognized his voice. Shri Amar Singh only gave us the phone and said talk to Shri Patel. It was a landline phone only.” 37. When asked whether they can name some of the middlemen or mastermind who contacted them for facilitating the deal, Shri Kulaste replied, “The entire atmosphere in the country was as such. Our names also appeared in the newspapers as ‘soft targets’. So we made a plan to expose them. The name of the mastermind was Suhail Hindustani. He told us that he had already spoken to Shri Ahmad Patel and we had to go to meet him.” 38. When asked, who was the person who came to his residence with a bag and whether he knew him, Shri Ashok Argal replied, “One was Shri Sanjeev Saxena. There was another man with him who was carrying the bag. They both came together. We don’t know that person and we did not ask his name either.” 39. Shri Argal, on being told that in the video footage it has been shown that Shri Sanjeev Saxena got him connected to someone on phone, and asked who was the person to whom he spoke on the phone, stated, “Shri Saxena got me connected to Shri Amar Singh and I spoke to Shri Amar Singh as we had come from his residence only.” 40. On being asked since when they knew Shri Suhail Hindustani, Shri Ashok Argal replied, “We met him only on 21 July. May be he would have met us earlier too, but as a Suhail, we met him only on 21 July.” 41. When asked whom did they meet and talk to in Hotel Le Meridian, Shri Kulaste replied, “We could not speak to anyone. Though our meeting was fixed with Shri Ahmad Patel, but it was our hard luck that meeting could not take place as Shri Patel was busy elsewhere due to which he could not come to meet us and we could not talk.” 42. On being asked why did they bring the money inside the House and placed it on the Table instead of going to the Speaker and lodging complaint with him and whether they wanted to bring

16 disrepute to Parliament and commit its contempt, Shri Argal replied, “We did not want to bring disrepute to Parliament. We only wanted to show the world what methods and means are being employed to save the Government. We did not think it proper to place the money before the Speaker.” 43. On being asked whether there was any agreement with or assurance given by CNN-IBN regarding telecasting the so called sting operation and if so, when? Shri Kulaste replied, “After the money was kept and displayed on the table at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence, the CNN-IBN team led by Shri Siddhartha Gautam took the photographs of all the notes. Shri Gautam had assured us that entire operation would be telecast on the evening of 22 July and he has already spoken to his channel in this regard. In fact, Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni spoke to channel about this.”

Evidence of Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN and other members of CNN-IBN team involved in sting operation 44. The Committee examined Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN and Sarvashri Siddhartha Gautam, Rohit Khanna, Saif R. Kidwai, Sudesh Bhatt and Karamvir, members of sting operation team of CNN-IBN on oath on 11 August, 2008. 45. Shri Rajdeep Sardesai during his evidence before the Committee inter alia stated as follows: “Sir, at the outset I just want to say we are adding one more tape because some Members apparently have gone about and said that what about their over-ground interviews. There were interviews that we had done subsequent to the sting operation and since there have been questions raised, we are handing over whatever is over-ground also. It includes interviews that we have done with the three concerned MPs. We did not give it initially because those MPs had said the same thing also in the press conference that they had. We had given what was connected to the sting operation. However, we did do interviews plus shot the money, which was on the table. We have shot of that over-ground. So, you will get an opportunity to check that money with what was perhaps displayed in the House. So, we have that tape and we would like to hand over that tape also so that there is no confusion on this ground. It is because MPs are going out and saying that the tapes are tampered with but nothing has been tampered or touched…this is the tape, which contains the interviews, and what was over-ground that means shot without the hidden camera. It contains interviews of all these three MPs, it contains a piece-two camera of our reporter who was there and it contains shots of the money. That is basically what it contains…Sir, these are the only cassettes that are directly in connection with the operation. Subsequent to that, we have interviewed Mr. Amar Singh and Mr. Arun Jaitley. We have said that we reserve the right to telecast. I think, Sir, you yourself have also said publicly that nothing stops us from telecasting it. So, we have gone and done interviews of BJP, Congress and all other leaders subsequent to the operation. So, as and when we telecast it we can hand them over to you also…Not with the sting operation. But let me clarify it. We have got a written statement to that effect. One of the reasons why we did not telecast these tapes on that day or at that time was, we felt that we needed to crosscheck and verify all the information that was there. Over the last couple of weeks, we have done that. However, we also felt it was important to appear before the parliamentary panel before we telecast anything. We do intend to telecast it and whatever is there subsequent to that,

17 is only by nature of crosschecking. As part of our investigation, we felt it was necessary to go to the BJP, Congress and more importantly to the BJP and Samajwadi Party. We want to make this clear that up to now, we have been targeted for doing the sting operations. The point is that when sting operations are done, politicians sometimes ask why do we just telecast without crosschecking. Now we go through a process of crosschecking and verification. We showed the tapes to all the people involved in them, got them to comment on it and then we intend to telecast. So, it should be made clear that our intention not to telecast was not because we were hiding anything but because we felt that as journalists we needed to cross- check the information. So, we have made that effort to crosscheck it and I think people need to recognize that. People have, unfortunately, not recognized that a journalist’s time-line is not of politician’s time-line. A politician or a political party may expect depending on which side they are...You have to first crosscheck. It involves Members of Parliament. It is a sensitive matter. There are various interpretations today. We felt it necessary to crosscheck it. Over the last couple of weeks, our reporters have gone and crosschecked also and we do intend to telecast once we have appeared in front of you without compromising on anything that we say to you. We will not reveal anything we have said to you but we do reserve our right to telecast because both the Speaker and yourself, Sir, have made it clear in public that the channel is entitled to telecast it without that being a breach of privilege. So, we stick to that stand. We have checked with our lawyers also. They also re-affirmed the same. But broadly we have got a statement and our written submissions that we would like to give you. These are written submissions. If I may explain, Shri Siddhartha Gautam was the Reporter who was in the operation, Shri Saif R. Kidwai was the Producer, Shri Karamveer and Shri Sudesh were the Camerapersons and Shri Rohit Khanna is our Executive Producer. These are the people who had access in some form or the other. Hence they have all appeared here. They have made one joint written submission of the circumstances that led us to do this. I think we have a copy of it and we will share that with you as well the copy of all the other information, which includes a letter, we gave to the Speaker the next day when we handed over the tape. It also includes a legal opinion that we had from Mr. Harish Salve who is our lawyer as to why at that time we could not telecast the tapes since that had become an issue and it includes a press statement that we had given in response to those who were questioning us as to why we were not telecasting the tapes. So all these four—the written submission of mine as well as my colleague’s, the opinion of Mr. Harish Salve, the press statement and we have given two sets of both. We are handing over all these to you. So, that is what we have. They will give the circumstances, which led us to do it. It is very clearly given as to why we decided to do this. Sir, if I may be allowed two minutes, I just want to explain. Actually on the 14th of July, Mr. A.B. Bardhan, the General Secretary and senior leader of CPI made an accusation that Rs. 25 crore is what MPs are being bought at. At that time I asked Shri Siddhartha Gautam who is our special investigation Reporter why does he not go and find out from MPs…He met MPs for seven days. He continuously met different Party people and also met Independent MPs to try and get some information. So, this is not as if the sting operation was the only thing we were doing. We had spoken to other independent MPs. We spoke to Congress and BJP to get some information. It is in the course of that exercise that our sources in the BJP said finally on 21st that they could provide us direct evidence and that is what led us to accompany these MPs. These MPs for us were only sources. They are not collaborators and therefore we cannot go by their timeline. They may have wanted us to telecast it right away. But no such 18 assurances were given. We said that when we have a full story, we would certainly telecast. The very fact that we have decided to investigate this means that we felt there was something in it and we were investigating it across party line. It was not as if he was only doing it with one party. So, he met people from all parties on this. I think these clarifications are there in our written submissions and therefore if you read the written submissions, it is very clear. Our purpose was purely a journalistic enterprise. We are not politicians and we do not want to get into a political battle. We did not want to get into a political tangle. So for us it was a journalistic exercise, which we had undertaken on the 14th of July evening when Mr. A.B. Bardhan in the afternoon made a statement. For six days he was ringing up MPs and meeting them as part of the exercise. MPs were not willing to come on camera naturally. On camera they would say that they have heard of these allegations...It was only on 21st that we decided to go along with this because we felt we could get some hard evidence made. Sir, in this entire exercise, if you see the tapes our reporter is in the other room. He is not a participant in any way. He was a fly on the wall. He has not participated in any way. That is why, we could not even hear it…we had crosschecked it. It is now that this information is coming into the public domain as to who these people are and that is also being said by one side or the other. So, our sole purpose in this exercise was this as part of wider investigation we were looking into these allegations, which we felt, were in the public interest. These were extremely serious allegations being made by a very senior politician and they were being freely made. So, we felt to investigate it. After we had seen the tape our Producer felt that there were many gaps and we needed to fill those gaps and therefore, we set about a process of cross-checking and corroboration but handed over the tapes to the Speaker because we did not want anyone to say that there was something to hide. People have asked the question why it took 24 hours. Let me make it clear, we approached the Speaker that evening itself that we have certain tapes because a political party had named our channel we felt it was necessary and at that stage once it has gone to Parliament and put the money on the Table to expect us to carry on the investigation was not possible. They had effectively put my reporter’s life, I would say in jeopardy because he was in a position where he could be targeted tomorrow. So, we then decided let us hand over the tapes to the Speaker. On that evening itself we made a request and the Speaker called us next day at 1200 hrs. in the afternoon. At that meeting, he said that it is up to you to decide when you want to hand the tapes. But we handed it over at exactly 5 o’clock that evening. Nothing has been touched in the tapes. We have not in any way edited it ...Where the audio quality is bad it is only because that is the nature of hidden camera. We also have our own transcript of it. We can share it but as you said, you have a prepared transcript. We will give our transcript also. You can match it to whatever extent to see if there are any discrepancies.” 46. On being told that as per statement of Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, they went to Lodhi Estate (Shri Amar Singh’s residence), in the Zen car which has been shown in the CD, only two people are seen and asked whether the said car also had the two members and whether he also went with the MPs there, Shri Siddhartha Gautam replied, “I did not see them. I just took the shots of the car. That is all. I do not know who was inside the car. I did not see these two MPs going there. We reached there first and car came later.” 47. When asked whether they saw Shri Suhail alias Raja Hindustani sitting in the front of Zen car, Shri Siddhartha Gautam replied, “Yes”.

19 48. On being asked when did he come in the picture and how, Shri Rajdeep Sardesai stated as follows:— “I told you. As I have said, on the 14th evening after Shri Bardhan had made this speech, around six o’clock in the evening I told him we would investigate something. Let us find out what is true or false about these allegations. He had spent five or six days, I think on 19th Saturday, came back to me and said that he is not getting anything; everybody says we have heard of allegations and we cannot confirm anything. So, I said, “Okay, leave, it.” On 21st, a source from the BJP told us that your Reporter has been tracking this story. We can provide him evidence. So, I said, “What kind of evidence?” He said that the other side has approached three of our MPs and that they have come to our party leadership. They are ready to turn in a sense ‘whistle blowers’. This is what the BJP leader claimed that they are ready to turn ‘whistle blowers’. If your Reporter accompanies them with a hidden camera, he will get a chance to record their conversation with the other side. Let me also say that we have been given a list of vulnerable MPs, in which these guys were there. Our information was that at least one of them had already planned to switch to the other side because his constituency was being delimited. Then the Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister had intervened, taken these MPs to the party leadership and therefore they had turned, we were told, that they had agreed to turn whistle blowers of sorts. I contacted our Reporter since he has been doing this story for five to six days. I said, “Why do you not accompany them?” At about 7 or 8 in the evening I got a call again saying ask your Reporter to come to Shri Argal’s residence where we hope to provide you this evidence. So, that is where I came in, when I was contacted by the BJP source who said that he could provide us the evidence to back the story that he was doing. I told him, “You go record and see what you get, do not intervene in any way. We will not get involved in any money transaction. Afterwards we will decide whether we want to air it.” I think this need to be made clear. This is where there is difference of opinion. We cannot have press conference every day. Politicians are able to say what they want to. But the fact is that there is no agreement. Our Reporter was doing a journalistic job. He went there, covered whatever was possible till about 1200 or 1230 in the afternoon on the 22nd and then came back with the tapes…we have nothing to hide even in those tapes. I submit that may be we could have submitted those tapes also on the day one. But please see that they contain three interviews done of the three Members. All three of which held a subsequent Press Conference saying the same things. So there is nothing in those things which was only privy to me. Since they had gone in public with those allegations and there is a sequence of the money being counted, I think on a hindsight that could be a material evidence for you and, therefore, you could well argue that it should have been given on day one. I concede that point. In the interviews of these three MPs, they have said the same things in different fora. It was not as if this was something exclusive. We gave the five tapes that were linked directly to the hidden cameras’ sting operation.” 49. On being asked whether his team was engaged by someone to get the recording done or his team was in contact with some people or sources to get investigative reporting completed, Shri Rajdeep Sardesai stated as under:— “…After I got a call, I sent Shri Siddhartha Gautam to Shri Argal’s residence. What happened after that, I was not in touch with him. He was in touch with him. However, he later informed me about Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni. Frankly speaking, he is not a political reporter. He did not know even Shri Kulkarni. He did not know Shri Kulkarni till a certain time. But that Shri Kulkarni was certainly present there is a fact. That Shri Kulkarni was assisting 20 the MPs in a way is also a fact. Shri Kulkarni was in the room. He (Shri Siddhartha) was not in the room where the transaction was going on. He was in the adjoining room. But it is clear that Shri Kulkarni was also in touch with the three Members of Parliament. We did not know that Shri Kulkarni was in a sense involved in it. We had no idea of it because, as I said, once I let him off to Shri Argal’s residence, what Shri Kulkarni’s role was something not known to us. But, yes, that Shri Kulkarni was present in the residence of Shri Argal is true. He was present. I think we have to be very clear about the fact that Shri Kulkarni was with these members. I do not think we can deny that. I want to clarify that I have never spoken to Shri Kulkarni.” 50. When asked whether he could reveal the source that approached the channel for conducting the sting operation, Shri Sardesai stated, “I do not want to reveal the source. It will be very difficult for me to reveal the source. I have already stated the source was from BJP. I have never said that Shri Argal contacted us. As I told earlier I have never spoken to Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni. I did not even know that he was there. When the tapes were brought to office and in one of the shots I saw him then I asked Shri Siddhartha Gautam what Shri Kulkarni is doing here. Shri Gautam told me that Shri Kulkarni was with them when they were doing the recording at Shri Argal’s residence”. 51. On being asked whether they know anything about Shri Suhail Hindustani, Shri Siddhartha Gautam replied, “He was there (at Argal’s residence). We came to know that he is one of the facilitators. We don’t know who he is”. 52. When reminded that their operation was triggered off basically on the statement made by Shri A.B. Bardhan on 14th July, 2008 and asked whether they consulted Shri Bardhan and asked him on what basis he made the said statements in a public meeting, Shri Sardesai stated, “We did an interview with Shri Bardhan that day itself and asked this question and he said this is what he had heard. He offered no proof”. 53. When asked whether there was any understanding or assurance given by his channel to air those tapes before noon or the evening of 22nd July, Shri Gautam replied, “There was no understanding. Even we never made any promise. In fact we did not know when and in which form it will be aired. My duty was only to submit the tapes to my Editor and inform him all that had happened. Finally it would have been his decision”. 54. On being apprised that members in their complaint to the Speaker, stated that their entry into Shri Amar Singh’s residence was recorded and asked if it was true, Shri Gautam replied, “Not at all. My team had not recorded it as we did not go inside. Shri Amar Singh is not on audio or on video in anything that we have”.

Evidence of Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP 55. Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP during his evidence before the Committee on 18 August, 2008 inter alia stated as follows:— “Sir, neither I intended to do this nor I took any initiative in this regard. Shri Ashok Argal ji met me and said that he wanted to come to my residence in the evening. I asked him the purpose. He replied that he would tell only when he would come to my residence. I said that he was welcome and could come in the evening. He came to my residence in the evening and said that his Lok Sabha seat has gone in delimitation and he had two colleagues one from

21 Rajasthan and the other from Madhya Pradesh. They might also not be getting ticket as BJP candidate most probably, so they would also like to talk to you. I said, it is all right, you may come. Ashok Argal ji came to my residence in the evening and Suhail Hindustani was accompanying him. They came, sat there and after having coffee and some formal talk, he told me that he would inform me after a while and arrange my talk with those two MPs also. He said he wanted an assured Lok Sabha ticket from my party and that he belongs to Scheduled Caste and hails from Morena near Gwalior and has a wide influence over Scheduled Caste community. He and his father have been members of Lok Sabha several times. I said it was all right, when you had talk with them, arrange my meeting with them. Whatever happened at night, you may check that. They called me several times. I was going to bed. I go to bed at 11 O’clock. They called me many times. I asked them to tell immediately whatever they wanted to say otherwise I am going to bed. They repeatedly asked for an appointment. I went to bed. Ashok Argal and Suhail Hindustani came to my residence at 1130 hrs. and said it was urgent and wanted to talk to me right then. They said two MPs are waiting at his residence; you come with us…they pressurized me by saying that they (MPs) were waiting for me. I asked them to bring them here only. They said Madhya Pradesh police has been deployed to keep a vigil on his residence and they somehow managed to come. So it would be better if I go with them. I went to Shri Argal’s residence. I saw two MPs sitting there. I asked them what they want. They said you already had talks with Shri Argal. I told them if you want to talk then go to our leaders and talk to them. I would not be able to say anything about the ticket. Thereafter, Shri Kulaste asked me what about the amount. I said I know nothing about the amount. When you will go to meet our leaders, there you can talk about it. They would decide what could be done or what not for contesting the election or to run the party…I told them if they wanted to come, they could, if they don’t want, they should not as it was not mandatory for them. I neither asked them to vote or to abstain in favour of the Confidence Motion. We have not given them any temptation…they were repeatedly talking about the amount which they required to contest the elections. I said they could discuss this point with our leaders…Then I left for my residence. As long as I was there I did not talk to Shri Amar Singh. I did not make any call to him. I even did not connect them to Shri Amar Singh. I did not take them to Shri Amar Singh’s residence, then how did Amar Singh come in the picture. This is nothing but concoction. This is false. There is no truth in it…” 56. On being told that he was repeatedly telling Shri Kulaste to meet the boss and talk to him face-to-face and asked who was he referring to as a boss and whom he wanted Shri Kulaste to talk to and meet, Shri Rewati Raman Singh replied, “He is Shri Amar Singh ji. I would like to clarify that Shri Amar Singh ji is in-charge of Madhya Pradesh region.” 57. When asked how did he know Shri Suhail and whether he had fixed the appointment of BJP members with Shri Amar Singh, Shri Rewati Raman Singh replied, “I do not know him. He came to my residence with Shri Argal. I never met him before…I never fixed any appointment. Neither I went with them to Shri Amar Singh’s residence nor Shri Amar Singh ever met them. How they went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence is a mystery, which I don’t understand. Shri Amar Singh never talked to them.” 58. When asked what Shri Ashok Argal wanted from him and whether he had any discussion with Shri Amar Singh in the matter, Shri Rewati Raman Singh replied, “Consequent upon delimitation, Shri Argal’s seat had been lost. He feared that he might not get ticket from BJP. On 21 July, when 22 the debate on ‘Confidence Motion’ was going on in the House and I was coming out of the House Shri Argal met me and said he wanted to meet me to discuss some political matter. I said he is welcome and can meet me in the evening. I asked him what did he want from me. He said he wanted to be the President of Samajwadi Party in Madhya Pradesh so that he can strengthen our Party there and for that he wanted money. I told him let the matter be settled first and then I would fix his meeting with Shri Amar Singh after consulting him as he is in-charge of Madhya Pradesh…In the morning of 22 July, I spoke to Shri Amar Singh and told him that these people want to join our Party and become President also. Shri Amar Singh said as these people don’t have a good image, we don’t want to absorb them in our Party. I never knew these people. They never met me earlier.” 59. When asked whether he knew Shri Sanjeev Saxena, Shri Rewati Raman Singh stated, “ No, I do not. I never met him before. Occasionally I went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence, but I have never met him.” Evidence of Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni on 18 August, 2008 60. The Committee examined Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni on oath on 18 August, 2008. Shri Kulkarni during the evidence9 before the Committee inter alia stated as follows: “…First of all, I would like to submit that this is not only a sting operation conducted by CNN-IBN, it is primarily a whistle-blowing operation conducted by the three BJP MPs and I was a facilitator. I already knew these three MPs and there was a murmur in political and media circle that these MPs can be a soft target. Moreover, they were also concerned about their negative image being projected everywhere. They wanted to participate in the whistle blowing- operation and I gave all the logistic support…The CNN-IBN participated in this voluntarily and conducted recording with the promise of telecasting the programme…I would like to very briefly summarise why I participated in this whistle-blowing operation. I have been an activist of the BJP since 1996. Between 1998 and 2004 I worked with Shri ji in the Prime Minister’s Office as his aide. I also have been a journalist for many years and now I am a columnist for the Indian Express and many other Indian newspapers…As a columnist, well before this episode, the cash-for-vote scandal, on July 22, I had given expression to my feelings and my thoughts in my columns and I have drawn the attention of the hon. Members by attaching my columns; my two columns before the episode and three columns after the episode. Why did I do this? It is because, it was known to one and all that horse trading was going on in the capital. A very respected member of the CPI, Comrade Bardhan stated on the 14th of July that Rs. 25 crore were being offered to each MP… Now, Comrade Bardhan does not belong to our party. But as a responsible and respected member of the Indian political class, he was telling the truth…On the 21st July, when the trust vote session began, Member after Member on the Opposition side, spoke about horse- trading of MPs. I have listened to all the speeches….Sir, on the 21st , around 11.30, I received a call from Shri Suhail Hindustani. He said on the phone, ‘Brother you should do something. Your MPs can be bought over’ I was taken aback. I know Suhail Hindustani for many years. He was an ordinary activist, worker of the Yuva Morcha of the BJP. When Shri Shahnawaz Hussain was a Minister, he worked closely with him. So, I was taken aback and I said, ‘Can you give me the names?’ He gave me the names. I asked him to see me after some time because I wanted to get further details from him. He said that his information was based on,

9 Please see Appendix IX for written submissions of Shri Kulkarni.

23 what he called, ‘the market’, which is the code word for all the wheeling dealing that takes place in the Capital. He gave me the names. Among the names were the names of the three MPs, with whom I subsequently collaborated, Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Mahavir Bhagora and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste. He also gave me information as to how and where exactly he got this information from. That is, his contacts in different parties gave this information to him, which he passed on to me. Then I asked him, How far is your contact? Suhail said that his contact is upto Shri Ahmed Patel and even upto Amar Singh because the person who has provided the information wants some of our MPs cross-over for some consideration...I asked him, ‘Are you willing to participate, to assist in any whistle-blowing operation?’ He agreed enthusiastically and instantly. On the evening of 21st July, a senior colleague of mine Shri Arun Jaitley, informed me that the CNN-IBN had agreed to record and telecast the whistle-blowing operation. He also mentioned that one Shri Siddhartha Gautam, an investigative Reporter with the Channel, would contact me soon. As a matter of fact, Siddhartha Gautam did contact me, and I asked him to come over to the place, where I stay in Delhi, by which time the three MPs, Shri Bhagora, Shri Kulaste and Shri Argal had also arrived at 17, Balwant Rai Mehta Lane. The first part of the whistle-blowing operation was when Suhail said that he can take our MPs to meet Shri Ahmed Patel at his residence. Unfortunately, there was some delay in the CNN-IBN team coming to 17, Balwant Rai Mehta Lane. By the time they came and by the time they fitted the hidden recording devices on the clothes of two MPs, it was quite late. So, Suhail said that they have to now go to Le-Meridian Hotel. I must mention here that the CNN-IBN team brought the devices. There were two of them at that time—Siddhartha Gautam and the cameraman, Sudesh. Suhail and two MPs left for Le-Meridian, and we, along with Siddhartha Gautam and his team followed their car and parked ourselves outside the hotel. I must also mention here that when on 11th August CNN-IBN telecast the programme, I was unpleasantly surprised to see that there was not a single clip of anything that happened in the Le-Meridian hotel. Our MPs spent about 30 to 40 minutes inside the hotel, and Suhail told me that they met several Congress leaders, which must have been recorded by CNN-IBN but the channel showed nothing. CNN-IBN cannot say that the devices recorded blank because I was with Siddhartha Gautam and his colleague. They started the device just before our MPs and Suhail went inside the hotel and they were repeatedly phoning them after about 30-35 minutes to come back soon because there is a stipulated time of about 40-45 minutes after which the battery of devices gets finished and it has to be re-operated. So, Siddhartha Gautam was repeatedly telling Suhail to come back and they would switch it on again. So, it is obvious that they have recorded something, which they have not shown. It is concealment of evidence. However, after they failed to meet Shri Ahmed Patel when they came out of the hotel, I told Suhail to try reaching out to his contacts in the Samajwadi Party and he said that he would take our MPs to meet Shri Rewati Raman Singh. Soon after midnight we relocated ourselves at 4, Feroz Shah Road, the official residence of Shri Ashok Argal. Suhail brought Shri Rewati Raman Singh to Shri Argal’s residence around midnight. They were closeted inside the drawing hall of Argal’s residence for about 30 minutes. CNN-IBN had already done, what is called, ‘bugging the room’. Of course, I was not there. I was in the adjoining room where a listening device was available. I was along with the other CNN-IBN members. There were two more CNN-IBN members who had joined by this time. One of them was Saif Kidwai, who was a producer with the Channel. I do not know the name of the fourth member. But all four of us, that is, Siddhartha Gautam, Sudesh, Saif Kidwai and the fourth member and myself were in an adjoining room where through the listening device we could follow what was going on in the drawing room. After about 30 minutes, Shri Rewati Raman 24 Singh left Argal’s residence and the three MPs who were in the room gave me the gist of what happened. They said that Shri Rewati Raman Singh offered to take our three MPs to meet Shri Amar Singh at the latter’s residence, 27, Lodhi Estate if they were agreeable to cross over by either voting for the Government or abstaining from the vote for a consideration. The three MPs said Shri Rewati Raman Singh told them that the amount would be decided by his leader, Shri Amar Singh for which they have to go to Amar Singh’s residence. However, since it was quite late, the meeting or rather the visit to Amar Singh’s place did not happen at night. Shri Rewati Raman Singh said that it could happen in the morning. After he left around 12.30 or one O’ clock, all of us, that is, the three MPs, the entire CNN-IBN team, myself and Suhail discussed the next part of the operation for quite some time. We left the place around 3 O' clock.

We came back at seven in the morning. About an hour later, Suhail told me that he had established a telephonic contact with Shri Rewati Raman Singh who said that Shri Amar Singh was waiting for our MPs at his residence. Accordingly, two of our MPs, Shri Kulaste and Shri Argal accompanied by Suhail went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence. Now, why am I saying that they went to Amar Singh’s residence? I must underscore one important point here. All along the CNN-IBN team has been a collaborator in this whistle blowing operation. Shri Siddhartha Gautam told me that he would go ahead to record the entry of our MPs into Shri Amar Singh’s residence and also record their exit after they left the place. Now, a question would normally come, if CNN-IBN team had fitted the recording devices on our MPs when they went to Le-Meridian hotel, why our MPs did not go with the recording devices to Shri Amar Singh’s residence? Sir, I must place on record here that when I mentioned to Siddhartha Gautam about fitting the recording devices, Siddhartha Gautam told me please do not take this risk as Shri Amar Singh is an expert man. He is expert in sting operations and he would very easily find out if the interlocutor is having some device. In any case, his residence also would have certain gadgets to find out if a person is coming with any recording device. So, it was the CNN-IBN’s advice to our MPs not to go with any recording device. I really do not know what happened inside Shri Amar Singh’s residence. However, after they returned, the MPs gave the gist of what happened inside Shri Amar Singh’s residence. They said that they did meet Shri Amar Singh”

Shri Kulkarni further stated that after Shri Sanjeev Saxena had left the residence of Shri Argal, he entered the room. He stated, “That is when for the first time, I entered the drawing room and found that the money was there in a bag. I asked Suhail, who else was there along with Sanjeev Saxena, and he mentioned that he had come with one more person wearing a yellow long sleeved shirt, who actually carried the bag. That person is in fact, also seen in the CNN-IBN’s telecast. Suhail mentioned to me and this is a very important point, hon. Chairman, Sir, Suhail mentioned that this man in yellow shirt was present in front of Shri Amar Singh’s residence, 27, Lodi Estate, and he was also seen inside the residence, therefore, he is a very important additional evidence. I do not know whether in the tape submitted by CNN-IBN to your Committee there this person seen in front of Shri Amar Singh’s residence. But if he is there, then it further clinches the point that the money actually came from Shri Amar Singh’s residence. After Shri Sanjeev Saxena and his colleague left and we were in the drawing room, along with the CNN-IBN team, the mood exhibited by the CNN-IBN team was triumphant and celebratory. They were very happy that they had accomplished a big scoop. They patted our MPs on the back. They thanked our MPs by shaking their hands and

25 it was clear from the gestures of Siddhartha Gautam and others, that what the three MPs and the CNN-IBN team had done together on 21st and 22nd had finally been accomplished. I do not know whether this is also there in the tapes submitted to the Committee. I would like to submit that CNN-IBN team re-arranged the bundles on the table in the drawing room and conducted an elaborate interview with the three MPs, asking them to answer every single question from the beginning to the end. I know this not because I was inside the room, but I was watching all this by standing outside. After the interview was over, Siddhartha Gautam also recorded a promo to the programme that was going to be telecast and what he said in the introductory remarks for the promo are quite revealing. I quote here. He said—for the first time in the history of Indian Parliament, CNN-IBN has captured, on camera, the proof of horse-trading of MPs. Now, throughout this operation, Siddhartha Gautam and his colleagues were highly enthusiastic in conducting this operation. At every stage Siddhartha Gautam was phoning or SMS-ing to his bosses in the CNN-IBN headquarters. He was taking instructions from his superiors and he assured me that the entire programme would be telecast in about two hours, in any case within five minutes of the MPs displaying the notes inside Parliament. This was the assurance given to me by Siddhartha Gautam. It was also an assurance given to our MPs. I have given this information which is truthful…” 61. When asked why did they choose CNN-IBN only, which according to them, betrayed them, did not fulfil its promise/honour its agreement and whether the channel was chosen in a hurry or because of Shri Arun Jaitley, Shri Kulkarni replied, “We considered CNN-IBN as an independent and reputed channel, which agreed voluntarily to record and telecast. We believed in them but subsequent betrayal on the part of the channel shows that the channel came under pressure…” 62. On being asked, why the two MPs who were sent to Shri Amar Singh’s residence to expose him were sent in a car which had tinted glasses and nothing was visible as to who was sitting in the car and going to Shri Amar Singh’s residence, Shri Kulkarni replied, “The Idea was that we knew there would be media people of other channels in front of Shri Amar Singh’s residence so we felt that it was not prudent for the identity of our MPs to be disclosed to the entire media. However, CNN-IBN knew and in fact they must have made every effort to capture on camera the presence of our two MPs. Although it was not shown or telecast of CNN-IBN, I believe, based on what Siddhartha Gautam has told me that they did capture our two MPs on camera.” 63. Shri Kulkarni was asked whether it was correct that the transcript of the tape-recorded conversation appended to the letter of Shri Kulaste and Shri Argal dated 3rd August, 2008, was as told to the Committee by the said members, prepared by him, Shri Kulkarni replied in the affirmative. When he was asked, “ How could you write a transcript without the CD/DVD?, Shri Kulkarni replied, “I am a journalist…” On being asked whether he possessed the CD from which the transcript was prepared, Shri Kulkarni replied in negative. On being asked, how could he prepare the transcript without the CD, he replied, “I am an investigative journalist. My investigation has revealed…” Evidence10 of Shri Suhail Hindustani on 18 August, 2008 64. On being asked when did he meet Shri Rewati Raman Singh for the first time, Shri Suhail Hindustani replied, “I had seen him in the newspapers and on television but I only recognized him on 21 July, 2008. I had never met him earlier.” When further asked how and when did he go to Le Meridian Hotel and with whom, Shri Suhail Hindustani replied, “It was on 21 July at 11.30 in the night we went to Hotel Le Meridian. We went straight to lobby. We waited for

10 Please see Appendix X for written submission of Shri Suhail Hindustani.

26 Shri Ahmad Patel there who did not turn up due to his engagement. Finally, we came back disappointed…” On being further enquired, when did he go to Shri Amar Singh’s residence and with whom, Shri Suhail Hindustani replied, “When I went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence, Shri Hashmat Ali, driver of Zen car, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Ashok Argal were with me. There was already a message from Shri Rewati Raman ji and Shri Amar Singh ji about me to the gatekeeper who opened a small gali of the main gate. As I was entering the gate, Shri Rewati Raman ji phoned me and asked if I had entered the residence. I told him I was entering. I went inside the residence. I had been there earlier too. Shri Amar Singh came from behind and seeing me he patted on my back. I introduced him to both the members…Nothing could be recorded there as CNN-IBN people had frightened these MPs saying that they would be caught if they went with those recorded devices with them. They misguided the MPs. They turned out to be unfaithful persons. We had a lot of talks there for nearly about half-an-hour…” 65. When asked what was his role in the entire operation and what was his motive in getting involved in the entire operation, Shri Suhail Hindustani stated, “I was not doing this for any remuneration. I was doing it to become a martyr…When we talked about money at Shri Amar Singh’s residence, he said though Shri A.B. Bardhan is saying 20-25 crores are being paid to MPs but we are not giving that much amount. But if someone agrees to 10-15 crores, we will give it, we have made arrangement, we already have 275 to 285 MPs…” 66. On being asked how did he know Shri Sanjeev Saxena, Shri Suhail Hindustani replied, “I had seen Shri Saxena at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence. Security personnel accompanied him.” 67. When asked on whose suggestion he went to Shri Ashok Argal’s residence, Shri Suhail Hindustani replied, “Channel personnel and Kulkarni ji.” When further asked whether Shri Amar Singh’s name figured there during the talks, Shri Suhail Hindustani replied, “His (Shri Amar Singh’s) name figured two or three times. We were mostly talking in code words so that they could not know about us…we were pronouncing the name of Shri Amar Singh as ‘Singh’ so that he could not doubt…”

Evidence of Shri Sanjeev Saxena on 18 August, 2008 68. Shri Sanjeev Saxena during his evidence before the Committee on 18 August, 2008 stated as follows: “…I used to work in a private company which I have already left. I had resigned from that company on 21…I used to work at two places. At one place I used to sit more and at other place I used to go less. I went to Lodhi Estate from there, as I had to spend time at 27 No. as per orders. As I had left the job on 21 July, I went there on 22 July just to say that I am going as I could not meet anyone on 21. I wanted to go from there on good terms…I never had any direct relations with him (Shri Amar Singh). Shri Shahid Siddqui had an office at 8, South Avenue. I used to work there and spend most of the time there only as in that office both, Shri Siddiqui as well as Shri Amar Singh used to work. Shri Amar Singh used to come there occasionally…they both used to use that office. My responsibility was towards Shri Shahid Siddiqui and not towards Shri Amar Singh…No, I did not go there to say that I would not work with him. Many a time, when there was heavy pressure of work, his staff used to call me. I used to go there occasionally. I had no fixed time. Sometimes morning, at times afternoon and sometimes in the evening. I used to go there as per the load of work. As I did not have much work, I used to go there and help them… I did not meet anyone that

27 day, as I did not get entry. As I had already tendered my resignation, I was not allowed entry. Since I did not get entry at Lodhi Estate, I went to Shri Shahid Siddiqui as I had very cordial relations with him. I used to work for him. He used to treat me like his brother. He told me, ‘Don’t worry Sanjeev. There is a lot of work. You just go to Ashoka Road.’ He gave me a letter, which I think was an offer for a job or a recommendation letter for a job. I went there (Ashoka Road). I met Suhail there who told me that they had to go further. He had a bag with him and one more person was with him. They both sat in my car and went to Shri Ashok Argal’s residence. 69. When informed that, in the video, he has been seen at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence on the morning of 22 July, 2008 with a bag and asked who had sent him there and who was the other person with him and what was his name, Shri Sanjeev Saxena stated, “I definitely went there, accompanied by an associate. I don’t know his name because someone had forcibly sent him with me…Basically, I was sent forcibly because I went to meet someone with regard to some different matter. He told me you have to go there. As I respect him very much and I could never deny his work. I had gone in connection with his work only but the situation changed…I never thought of such a situation.” 70. On being asked whether he knew for what work he was being sent to Shri Ashok Argal’s residence, Shri Saxena replied, “No, I did not know about that work.” 71. On being further asked who gave him the money, Shri Saxena replied, “A person accompanying Suhail, who joined me in the car at Ashoka Road, gave me the bag after reaching Argal ji’s residence.” 72. The Committee informed Shri Saxena that when he was at Shri Argal’s residence he was seen trying to call someone from his mobile and he also received some calls on his mobile. On being asked who he was trying to call from his mobile and whose call he received on his mobile, Shri Saxena replied, “That was not my mobile. It was handed over to me by Shri Suhail before sending me inside…I was trying to contact PS of Shri Amar Singh ji so that I can get an appointment…It is difficult for me to tell because the phone handed over to me already had four or five numbers in its memory not with the proper name but with code names like Sir, Madam, Boss, Office etc. I had no idea with whom I was talking to, who was at the other end.” 73. When asked who was the person, apart from Suhail, who accompanied him and was carrying a bag with money when he went to Shri Ashok Argal’s residence and on whose behalf did he deliver the money, Shri Saxena replied, “I don’t know the name of the person who accompanied me because he was the person who was actually with Shri Suhail who had told me that this man will accompany me inside. On nobody’s behalf I delivered the money. I think it is Shri Suhail who should reply to that question.”

VII. Findings and Conclusions Findings 74. The Committee note that the three complainants in their joint complaint dated 25 July, 2008 referred to an observation made by Shri A.B. Bardhan, General Secretary, Communist Party of India on 14 July, 2008 in a public rally that in the ‘ongoing horse-trading’ the going rate was Rs. 25 crore for ‘each catch’. The Committee further note that Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor- in-Chief of CNN-IBN too during his evidence before the Committee on 11 August, 2008 inter alia submitted that it was only after Shri Bardhan’s observation that they started their investigative journalistic enterprise.

28 75. It was under these circumstances that the Committee sought the comments of Shri Bardhan in the matter. The Committee find it appropriate to reproduce the relevant portion of Shri Bardhan’s letter dated 19 August, 2008 in this regard:— “I referred to an earlier incident way back in 1993 where 50 lakhs each had been paid to a number of MPs. With a much larger stake this time, and with the tremendous price rise and inflation between then and now, the figure of money being paid had gone up to several crores. I mentioned the figure of 25 crores only to emphasize the enormity of this attack and the subversion of our parliamentary system.” (emphasis supplied) 76.The Committee do appreciate Shri Bardhan’s prompt and candid response in this regard. The Committee, nevertheless, are constrained to observe that Shri Bardhan’s statement/ declaration during a public rally on 14 July, 2008 which very well might have been made in the ardour of oratorical fervour at the relevant point of time, sought to create an impression among public in general that members of Parliament are up for sale like livestock in a shandy. As noted earlier it was this ‘observation’, which in a way prompted the three complainants and the CNN-IBN to go for the ‘impugned whistle blowing operation’. As to whether there was any factual basis in the observation made by Shri Bardhan, the answer to this poser lies in the comments of Shri Bardhan as reproduced above. It is for all to see. The Committee would be leaving it at that. 77. The Committee find it pertinent to emphasize here that on 22 July, 2008 cross-voting took place on both the sides. As per details/records of voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’ that day, from the side of Government supporting parties, nine members voted against the Motion. On the other hand, from the side of Opposition and supporting parties, while eleven members voted in favour of the Motion, five members abstained from voting. The Committee would wish to point out here that cross-voting, which eventually took place from both sides, need not have been necessarily and solely for monetary considerations. There could be various other crucial factors behind cross-voting such as political compulsions or other considerations namely, delimitations of constituencies or the changing geo-political scenario, particularly at a time when General Elections to the Fifteenth Lok Sabha are not too far away. 78. The Committee would like now to briefly dwell upon the tapes* of the ‘Whistle-blowing Operation’ as furnished by the CNN-IBN team. These are one of the primary base materials upon which the Committee are basing their investigation. The Committee note that initially on 23 July, 2008, Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief of CNN-IBN furnished five DVC Pro tapes. These tapes have been numbered as tapes 1 to 5. Subsequently, he provided two more tapes, which have been numbered as tapes 6 and 7. Tape 1 is an audiotape comprising conversation that took place on 21 July, 2008 between Shri Rewati Raman Singh and Shri Ashok Argal and other two members at Shri Argal’s residence. Tape 7 is same as Tape 1 with enhanced audio clarity. Tape 2 comprises a video footage covering the sequence of the said conversation between Shri Rewati Raman Singh, Shri Ashok Argal and others. The gist of the video footage of Tape 2 is as under:— • Some persons are seen adjusting the focus of the video camera. • Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MP appears on the screen and takes his seat on the right side of the sofa.

*For transcripts of the tapes please see Appendix VIII. 29 • Shri Rewati Raman Singh, along with Shri Ashok Argal, MP and Suhail Hindustani wearing a light green T-shirt, a man dressed in striped T-shirt and others enter the room. Shri Rewati Raman Singh takes seat in front of the camera. •A little while later Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MP enters the room and sits besides Shri Rewati Raman Singh. •All the members are talking to each other. Shri Rewati Raman Singh is seen trying to convince other members to come along with him and directly discuss the details in person. He is continuously asking them to come with him. However, the members decided to consider the matter among themselves before going. • Shri Rewati Raman Singh leaves the room and another person wearing green shirt and black pant enters the room and talks to the three members. Tape 3 comprises a video footage taken outside 27, Lodhi Estate, residence of Shri Amar Singh on 22 July, 2008. The gist of the video footage is as under:— • 27, Lodhi Estate, residence of Shri Amar Singh appears on the screen. •After a while a White Zen car bearing Registration No. DL 5CC 7218 is seen coming towards the residence and stops at the gate of the residence of Shri Amar Singh. A person in yellow shirt is seen talking to the guards on the gate. (He appears to be the same person who came to Shri Ashok Argal’s house and was carrying a green colour bag full of wads of currency notes along with Shri Sanjeev Saxena as seen in the Tape-4.) As soon as the car stops in front of the gate, Shri Suhail Hindustani enters through the gate after a while the gate is opened and the car moves inside the bungalow. • Shri Siddhartha Gautam, IBN-CNN reporter could be seen on the screen talking to someone on the mobile along with other media persons and few other persons. Shri Saif Kidwai, Producer, CNN-IBN could also be discerned. •After a while, a same man in yellow shirt is seen entering the bungalow. •A few minutes later the White Zen car is seen coming out of the gate. Driver is putting a handkerchief on his face and Suhail is sitting besides him on the front seat. It is not properly visible as to who is sitting in the rear seat; only a silhouette of a person is seen. However, since the glasses of the car were tinted, the faces of the persons on the rear seat could not be identified. Tape 6 is same as Tape 3 albeit with enhanced audio-video output. However, in this tape some more reporters and media persons could be seen. Tape 4 comprises video footage of money being given by Shri Sanjeev Saxena to Shri Ashok Argal and others at Shri Argal’s flat on 22 July, 2008. The gist of the tape is as under:— • Shri Suhail Hindustani enters the room and asks Shri Ashok Argal whether he may call them or not. •A little later, a person in yellow shirt (he is also seen in Tape 3) enters the room with a green bag in his hand and behind him enters Shri Sanjeev Saxena in navy blue T-shirt.

30 • Shri Mahavir Bhagora is introduced to Shri Sanjeev Saxena who says that he could not come earlier due to his engagement with the Chief Minister of Rajasthan. Shri Bhagora insists on talking to someone and Shri Saxena can be seen trying to make a call. •After a while, Shri Sanjeev Saxena can be seen putting up wads of currency notes on the table placed in front of him. Shri Ashok Argal takes out purple polythene packet and places it on the table. • Meanwhile the mobile rings and Shri Saxena receives the phone and talks to someone and intimates that Shri Mahavir Bhagora is also there. It appears that the phone got disconnected and Shri Saxena tries to make a call again. Simultaneously, the person in yellow shirt can also be seen trying to call and passes the phone to Shri Saxena. • Shri Sanjeev Saxena says that ‘Sir, Argal Saheb wants to talk to you’ passes the phone to Shri Ashok Argal who later introduces Shri Mahavir Bhagora to the person on the phone and passes on the phone to Shri Bhagora. Shri Bhagora talks to the person. Later, Shri Ashok Argal acknowledges the receipt of Rs. one crore. • Shri Ashok Argal leaves the room while Shri Sanjeev Saxena and the man in yellow shirts put the currency notes in the polythene packet. Later Shri Argal enters the room with Shri Suhail Hindustani. They then try to call someone. • Shri Sanjeev Saxena receives a call and passes on the phone to Shri Ashok Argal who talks to the person and concurs with the person on the other side and passes on the phone to Shri Mahavir Bhagora who asks the other person to send the thing to Shri Argal’s house through any responsible person. • Shri Sanjeev Saxena, Suhail Hindustani and the person in yellow shirt leave the room. •All the three members shake hand with each other. • Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni along with the team of CNN-IBN enters the room and talks to the members. Tape 5, which is an audio-tape, has been found to be inaudible. 79. At this very juncture, the Committee would also like to mention about certain other tapes, which were made available to the Committee. These are (i) Two DVDs handed over by Ms. Uma Bharati, former member of Lok Sabha, to the Speaker, Lok Sabha relating to a ‘sting operation’ purported to be conducted upon one of the complainants viz. Shri Ashok Argal, MP; (ii) One DVD forwarded by one Shri Tarun Goel, Advocate, which was handed over by Shri Amar Singh, member, Rajya Sabha to the Speaker, Lok Sabha on 2 August, 2008. This DVD contains a video footage of a conversation between Shri Tarun Goel and Shri Sanjeev Saxena seen after the whistle blowing operation; and (iii) Six DVDs forwarded by Shri , Shri Ram Vilas Paswan, Ministers and Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav, member and leader of opposition, Legislative Assembly vide their letter dated 4 August, 2008 to the Speaker, Lok Sabha, which were handed over personally to the Speaker, Lok Sabha by Shri Amar Singh. Broadly, these tapes show certain ‘excerpts’ of an interview by one of the complainants Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, its coverage on TV Channels, movements of Shri Sanjeev Saxena after 22 July, 2008 etc. Subsequenty, Shri Tarun Goel vide his letter dated 30 September, 2008 alleged that Shri Hashmat Ali had been demanding money from Shri Amar Singh volunteering to give a

31 favourable evidence. Shri Goel also made some other contentions. He had furnished three DVDs in support of his contentions. The Committee note that all these tapes are post-dated vis-a-vis the ‘whistle blowing operation’ conducted by CNN-IBN on 21 & 22 July, 2008. The Committee after due deliberation on the relevance of these post-dated tapes finally came round to the view that tapes showing incidents/ developments post 22 July, 2008 do not have any material relevance to the Committee’s areas of examination of the matter under reference. The Committee were also of the considered view that such an exercise would have a tendency to open the Pandora’s box, which may eventually lead to an exercise ad infinitum. The Committee accordingly did not take cognizance of these tapes. 80. Before proceeding further, the Committee would like to mention that during the inspection of the currency notes, the Committee examined in detail the notes with a view to ascertaining their origin. The Committee would now wish to furnish the details of the currency notes as could be gathered by them, which are as under:— NO. OF NO. OF CURRENCY NAME OF THE NAME OF THE BANK BRANCH/ CURRENCY NOTES ON THE BANK(S) FOUND DATE FOUND ON THE NOTES ON OTHER END OF MENTION IN CURRENCY BUNDLES ONE END THE BUNDLE THE BUNDLES OF THE BUNDLE JAB 747683 2AA 261347 UNION BANK OF INDIA FARIDABAD 2DA 431000 2AT 620426 BRBNMPL/INDIAN BANK MYSORE/HAUZ KHAS, DELHI DATED 24 JUNE, 2008 6AB 391895 2AT 620426 DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE 3AA 473906 OAC 305529 BANK OF INDIA NEW FRIENDS COLONY 6DA 784884 6CF 223663 DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE 8BV 685582 JCR 108418 PRAGATI GRAMIN BANK/ 13 FEB,2008/4 FEB,08 CANARA BANK/ ING VYSYA BANK 6BN 365031 6CG 304587 DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE 5DA 360489 2AM 725039 DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE DETAILS NOT AVAILABLE H 268523 5BQ 534277 PUNJAB NATIONAL BANK NEHRU PLACE OAL 487066 6BF 124132 AXIS BANK GURGAON (14.5.2008) The Committee, thereafter, took up the matter with the Ministry of Finance, requesting them to obtain and furnish details of persons/entities who had withdrawn the currency notes that were brought, displayed and placed on the Table of Lok Sabha on 22 July, 2008 by the said three members. In response thereto, the Department of Financial Services, Ministry of Finance, vide their OM11 dated 26 September, 2008 inter alia responded by stating that, “…Replies have been

11 Please see Appendix-XI.

32 received from all banks except ING Vysya Bank. It has been reported by the banks that there is no system of recording the serial number of currency notes issued to the customer and the banks do not maintain any record of serial number of currency notes paid to them. Therefore, banks are unable to trace out the person who has withdrawn the said bundles from the respective branch.” 81. The Committee also took up the matter with the Ministry of Communications and Information Technology seeking Call Detail Records of phone numbers 24616827, 9811721499, 9873210341 and 23782233 for the period 21 and 22 July 2008. In response thereto, Department of Telecommunications, Ministry of Information and Technology vide their communication12 dated 1 October 2008 furnished details of CDRs obtained from MTNL in respect of telephone numbers 24616827 and 23782233 (excluding local calls) and from M/s Vodafone Essar Limited in respect of telephone numbers 9811721499 and 9873210341. As the Department of Telecommunications furnished details only in respect of calls and no information could be furnished with regard to contents of the calls, the Committee do not find it necessary to dwell on the same further. 82. The Committee would also like to allude to the submission made by Shri Rewati Raman Singh during his evidence that as per Shri Ashok Argal, Madhya Pradesh police had been deployed to keep vigil at Shri Argal’s residence. On a reference being made to the Ministry of Home Affairs for ascertaining the reasons for deploying the Madhya Pradesh police and whether any prior permission was obtained from them, the Ministry vide their OM13 dated 17 October, 2008 intimated that the Delhi Police was not informed about the deployment of Madhya Pradesh police at Shri Argal’s residence. Besides, no request for any permission was received from the Madhya Pradesh police. 83. Coming to the allegations made in the matter, the Committee note that the main allegation that emerges out of the written complaint and evidence tendered before the Committee is that Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmad Patel, MPs of Rajya Sabha were instrumental in making the offer of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MPs for voting in favour of the Government or abstaining from voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’. Allegation was also against Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP for being a facilitator in the alleged offer of money to said three members. Finally, allegation has also also been made against Shri Sanjeev Saxena purported to be Assistant or Secretary of Shri Amar Singh being a conduit in the delivery of money. 84. As Shri Ahmad Patel and Shri Amar Singh are members of Rajya Sabha, attention of the Committee was drawn to the well established position as laid down in the Practice and Procedure of Parliament by M.N. Kaul & S.L. Shakdher that ‘Neither House of Parliament can claim or exercise any authority over a member of the other House’. It this context, the Committee note that the Committee of Privileges (Second Lok Sabha) in their Sixth Report which was laid on the Table on 12 December, 1958 and adopted by the House on 17 December, 1958 recommended the following procedure for requiring appearance of a member of one House before other House or any Committee thereof: “The Committee are of the opinion that the House should not permit any one of its Members to give evidence, before the other House of Parliament or a Committee thereof or before a House of State Legislature or a Committee thereof, without a request desiring his attendance and without the consent of the Member whose attendance is required. Further,

12 Please see Appendix-XII. 13 Please see Appendix-XIII.

33 such requests from the other House of Parliament or a Committee thereof or by a House of State Legislature or a Committee thereof ought to express clearly the cause and purpose for which the attendance of the Member is desired. The Committee recommend that no Member of the House should give evidence before the other House or a Committee thereof or before a House of State Legislature or Committee thereof, without the leave of the House being first obtained. When a request is received seeking leave of the House to a Member to give evidence before the other House or a Committee thereof, a House of State Legislature or a Committee thereof, the matter may be referred by the Speaker to the Committee of Privileges. On a report from the Committee, a motion may be moved in the House by the Chairman or a member of the Committee to the effect that the House agrees with the report and further action should be taken in accordance with the decision of the House.” 85.The Committee, however, find it pertinent to note that the recommendation made by the Committee of Privileges in 1958 was based on the practice obtaining in the House of Commons at that time. The practice in the House of Commons has since, however, undergone a change. According to May’s Parliamentary Practice (23rd Edition, p. 648): “Under Standing Order No. 138, the House of Commons has given a general leave to attend to any Member requested to attend as a witness before a Lords Committee or its sub- Committees, if the Member thinks fit. Under Lords Standing Order No. 22 (Lords attendance at Commons Select Committees) any Lord requested by a Committee of the Commons to attend as a witness before it or before any sub-Committee appointed by it, is given leave to attend if he thinks fit. No messages are exchanged.” 86. The Committee observe that since there has been no change in the procedure in India after 1958, the Inquiry Committee may have to follow the same procedure14 as recommended by the Committee of Privileges (2nd Lok Sabha) cited above, if on a prime facie examination of allegations against members of Rajya Sabha, a need is felt to hear them in person. The Committee will revisit this issue after analyzing the allegations against Shri Ahmad Patel and Shri Amar Singh. 87. The Committee would like to examine the allegations made against the individuals named in the joint complaint on the basis of evaluation of the evidence tendered before the Committee and material on record. The Committee would like to deal with the allegation made against Shri Ahmad Patel, member Rajya Sabha, followed by the allegations against Shri Rewati Raman Singh, member, Lok Sabha and then Shri Sanjeev Saxena. As the common strain among all the allegations zero in on Shri Amar Singh, the Committee would like to deal with his case at the end. Considering the case in its totality, the Committee would also like to dwell on the depositions made by Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni and Shri Suhail Hindustani. Shri Ahmad Patel’s Case 88. The allegation against Shri Ahmad Patel is that he was instrumental in making the offer of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora. The three members in their joint complaint dated 25 July, 2008 alleged that on 21 July, 2008 one of the

14 A note on Procedure for dealing with complaints against members of the other House as taken vote of by the Committee may please be seen at Appendix XIV.

34 intermediaries took them to Le Meridian Hotel where they were to meet a senior Congress Leader (Shri Ahmad Patel) who would give them money to abstain from voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’. The said meeting, however, did not materialize. It was in the evidence of Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni that Shri Suhail Hindustani (the intermediary who was referred to in the joint complaint) was scheduled to take the said three members to the residence of Shri Ahmad Patel but the same could not materialize owing to delay in coming of CNN-IBN team to Shri Kulkarni’s residence and in putting the hidden hearing device on the clothes of the members. It was then that they decided to go for the ‘rendezvous’ at Le-Meridian. The members, however, “did not meet Shri Ahmad Patel”. This position has also been confirmed by CNN-IBN channel, Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni and Shri Suhail Hindustani during their deposition before the Committee. 89. Hence, as may be seen, as per the complainants and witnesses deposing before the Committee, the meeting with Shri Ahmad Patel never materialised. When a meeting never took place, the issues whether a meeting was ever fixed, if so, for what purpose it was fixed etc. become merely matters of conjectures. Inferences cannot be possibly drawn from conjectures. 90. As regards, the other allegation against Shri Ahmad Patel, Shri Ashok Argal in his evidence, before the Committee, submitted that on 22 July, 2008 at the residence of Shri Amar Singh “He (Amar Singh) got it confirmed (about money) from Shri Patel. He got us connected to Shri Patel. Shri Patel spoke to us also. As we (Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste) had never spoken to Shri Patel earlier, we cannot say we recognized his voice. Shri Amar Singh only gave us the phone and said talk to Shri Patel. It was a landline phone.” Shri Suhail Hindustani confirmed this position. 91.The Committee find it appropriate to dwell here on the issue as to why did the complainants or CNN-IBN did not choose to record the conversation which took place between Shri Argal, Shri Kulaste and Shri Amar Singh at Shri Amar Singh’s residence on 22 July, 2008; particularly when they made all such preparations for the “meeting with Shri Ahmad Patel” which never took place. 92. The Committee note the submissions made by Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni during his deposition wherein he inter alia stated “…a question would normally come, if CNN-IBN team had fitted the recording devices on our MPs when they went to Le Meridian Hotel, why our MPs did not go with the recording devices to Shri Amar Singh’s house? Sir, I must place on record here that when I mentioned to Siddhartha Gautam about fitting the recording devices, Siddhartha Gautam told me please do not take this risk as Shri Amar Singh is an expert man. He is expert in sting operation and he would very easily find out if the interlocutor is having some device. In any case, his house also would have certain gadgets to find out if a person is coming with any recording device. So, it was the CNN-IBN’s advice to our MPs not to go with any recording device.” Shri Suhail Hindustani too in his evidence vouched for this position. Surprisingly, Shri Siddhartha Gautam the ‘man on field’ from the CNN-IBN team during his evidence submitted that it were the members who fought shy of carrying hidden hearing equipments on their persons while entering Shri Amar Singh’s residence on 22 July, 2008. The Committee wish to bring on record this contradictory position. 93.There is not an iota of evidence either in the tapes or in any of the depositions made by the witnesses, who appeared before the Committee, which may conclusively prove Shri Ahmad Patel’s involvement in the alleged offer of money to the complainants.

35 Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s case 94.The complainants in their joint complaint dated 25 July, 2008 and in their further submissions dated 3 August, 2008 alleged that on 21 July, 2008 Shri Rewati Raman Singh, came to the residence of Shri Ashok Argal after midnight. While requesting the complainants (who were all present there) to meet Shri Amar Singh, he told them that the amount payable to them would be settled by Shri Amar Singh. 95. Shri Rewati Raman Singh during his evidence, while conceding having gone to the residence of Shri Ashok Argal, clarified that he went at the instance of Shri Argal. Elaborating, Shri Rewati Raman Singh stated that on the evening of 21 July, 2008 Shri Argal rang him up and purportedly sought some guidance vis-à-vis his political future and invited him to his residence. Thereafter, Shri Argal, along with Shri Suhail Hindustani, came to his residence. As per Shri Rewati Raman Singh, Shri Argal stated that he was likely to loose his Lok Sabha seat in the delimitation of Lok Sabha constituencies. He, therefore, expressed a desire to join Samajwadi Party if he was assured a ticket of Samajwadi Party in the forthcoming Lok Sabha election from a reserved constituency in Madhya Pradesh. Therefore, after persistent request in late night, he (Shri Rewati Raman Singh) went to Shri Argal’s residence. He asserted that there was a general political talk and at no point of time did he ever make any request to them to vote in support of the Government or abstain from voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’, the next day. He also asserted that there was no talk of any consideration or offer of money. He further alleged that there was a political conspiracy in the entire matter. 96. The Committee note that, to a pointed query, Shri Rewati Raman Singh did admit having mentioned during the discussion that the “requisite numbers were made up”. The Committee also note that as per the transcript of tape number 2 furnished by CNN-IBN (comprising video footage of recording at residence of Shri Ashok Argal on the intervening night of 21 & 22 July, 2008), Shri Rewati Raman Singh spoke to Sarvashri Argal, Kulaste and Bhagora regarding “fees” and is stated to have told them “what is the problem in it? It has already been discussed…It was not discussed over phone. Talks are held face to face. If you have had talks…You would get the money there…let us move now…” Shri Rewati Raman Singh denied having made the above statements, which have been ascribed to him. 97. The Committee, note that the tapes initially furnished by CNN-IBN were not audible. However, the video aired by CNN-IBN on their channel on 11 August, 2008 evening, did indicate this conversation. The Committee also notes that the same was a result of audio video mix blending done by CNN-IBN for their feature on TV. 98. The Committee would like to observe that the backdrop against which Shri Rewati Raman Singh met Shri Argal and other two members at his residence on 21 July, 2008, indicates a critical situation. It was a politically volatile situation. The fate of the ‘Confidence Motion’, the next day (22.07.2008), was a matter of wide speculation. The fate of the Government at the Centre and the life of Fourteenth Lok Sabha, in a manner of speaking, hung in balance. In such a situation political confabulations were but natural. 99. On their own admission, Sarvashri Argal, Kulaste and Bhagora were being perceived as soft targets in the context of ‘ongoing horse trading’ as was understood by the media and other circles.

36 100. The Committee find it worthwhile to note that Shri Rewati Raman Singh is one of the General Secretaries of Samajwadi Party and Shri Amar Singh is the General Secretary of the Party in-charge of political affairs of the Madhya Pradesh, the State which Shri Ashok Argal belongs to. Hence, in given volatile political situation, it could also be well argued that Shri Rewati Raman Singh was facilitating Shri Ashok Argal’s request for being assured a Lok Sabha ticket from Samajwadi Party.

101. Taking into consideration the totality of facts and circumstances of the matter, Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s admission (as alluded to in para no. 95) that “the requisite numbers were made up” and even if the statements attributed to the member as evidenced from tape 2 (as alleged to in para no. 95 above) were to be true, these alone cannot be taken as conclusive evidence of his having offered money to said three members to vote in favour of the ‘Confidence Motion’ or abstain from voting in lieu of monetary consideration.

102. The fact, however, remains that even if it were on the request of Shri Argal, Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s initiative or proposal to take Shri Argal and other two members belonging to BJP to facilitate joining Samajwadi Party could very well be perceived as an attempt to induce some members to defect from their original political party in violation of the provisions of the Anti-Defection Law; the timing at which Shri Rewati Raman Singh met Shri Ashok Argal and his other colleagues at his residence does have a potential to raise doubts over the purpose of his visit.

103. As already observed by the Committee, at that point of time, the prospect of early dissolution of Lok Sabha also appeared quite likely. Besides, on his own admission, Shri Ashok Argal was likely to lose his seat in the delimitation of parliamentary constituencies. Under such a situation, the purported overtures/attempts to induce the said three members to cross over to Samajwadi Party could as well have been made in the context of getting a ticket for Shri Ashok Argal and others from Samajwadi Party for Fifteenth Lok Sabha. If that were the case, such overtures may as well have come under the rigours of the Tenth Schedule to the Constitution referred to as the Anti-Defection Law.

Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s Case

104. By far, the role and evidence of Shri Sanjeev Saxena, alleged to be the emissary of Shri Amar Singh, has been most collusive. He has been charged of being a conduit for delivering the money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, Members of Parliament. The said three members made allegations to this effect in their joint complaint dated 25 July, 2008 as also their further communication dated 3 August, 2008. Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, during their evidence before the Committee, alleged that when they met Shri Amar Singh at his residence on 22 July, 2008, Shri Amar Singh introduced them to Shri Sanjeev Saxena. Shri Suhail Hindustani, during his evidence on being asked as to how does he know Shri Sanjeev Saxena, replied that he had seen Shri Saxena at Shri Ashok Argal’s house on the day the money was being delivered. He further stated that Shri Saxena was accompanied by a security person. Shri Rewati Raman Singh, however, during his evidence, denied having known Shri Saxena. He further clarified that though he occasionally goes to Shri Amar Singh’s house, he had never met him there.

37 105. The tapes provided by CNN-IBN team, tape No.4 to be precise, shows Shri Sanjeev Saxena delivering money to the said three MPs at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence. Shri Saxena is also seen as dialing some numbers from his mobile phone. He is also seen talking to somebody and handing over the mobile phone one after another to all the three members. In the tape, apart from the three members, Shri Suhail Hindustani and a ‘man in yellow shirt’ were also seen. 106. The Committee find the evidence of Shri Sanjeev Saxena, both baffling as well as intriguing, to say the least. The Committee would, however, like to give a gist of Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s deposition. Shri Saxena during his evidence, inter alia stated that he was never under direct employment of Shri Amar Singh. He used to work for a private company—‘Wincom Money Mudra’. He used to mostly work at the office at the residence of Shri Shahid Siddiqui and occasionally at the residence of Shri Amar Singh. He resigned from his employment on 21 July, 2008. According to him, he did not meet Shri Amar Singh on 22 July, 2008. Since he was looking for an employment, he went along with a reference from Shri Siddiqui to Ashoka Road for meeting Shri Suhail Hindustani. At the instance of Shri Suhail he went to the residence of Shri Ashok Argal thereafter. It was at the residence of Shri Argal that he was handed over a bag, told that it contained some money and asked to go inside Shri Argal’s residence and deliver the money. Under duress he had to enter the room with the bag of money to meet Shri Argal and other two members. He stated that he was also handed over a mobile phone and was asked to state certain things on the phone and he did not know whom he was talking to. He further stated that it was difficult to say as to whom he was speaking to as the phone had only four-five numbers in its memory with some code names like Sir, Madam, Boss, office etc. To a specific query as to who gave him the money, Shri Saxena stated that a person accompanying Shri Suhail, who joined him in the car at Ashoka Road, gave him the bag after reaching Shri Argal’s house. The Committee incidentally note that it is this person who is now being referred to as the ‘man in the yellow shirt’ and it is the same person who has presumably been referred to by Shri Suhail Hindustani during his evidence (as mentioned earlier) as a security person accompanying Shri Sanjeev Saxena. Shri Saxena denied having known him and so does Shri Suhail Hindustani. Surprisingly, none of the persons could identify the ‘man in yellow shirt’. The Committee did seek to have the testimony of the ‘man in yellow shirt’, but as none of the persons could identify him, the Committee were not in a position to have his deposition. There was a demand by some members to seek the assistance of the Police to track the person and arrange for his presence before the Committee. The Committee, however, after due deliberation, felt that the same could end up as a wild goose chase. Besides, the Committee also note that neither the Committee of Privileges nor any Inquiry Committee or any other Parliamentary Committee ever took recourse to taking assistance of Police under such circumstances for securing the presence of a person whose identity is unknown, for deposing before the Committee. 107. The Committee note that Shri Saxena did concede having gone to Shri Ashok Argal’s residence on 22 July, 2008 and also delivering the money albeit under duress and also without any knowledge of the person to whom the money belonged and the purpose for which the money was being delivered. While Shri Saxena conceded that he knew Shri Amar Singh, he denied having any direct relation with Shri Amar Singh. He also explained that he knew Shri Amar Singh due to the fact that Shri Amar Singh and Shri Shahid Siddiqui (under whom he used to work) shared the same office viz., 8, South Avenue, New Delhi. The matter for investigation is whether Shri Sanjeev Saxena delivered the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh and was there any proof of Shri Amar Singh having sent Shri Sanjeev Saxena with money at Shri Argal’s house? This is the specific area of investigation of the Committee.

38 108. After taking into account the totality of the facts and circumstances of the case and the basic norms of logic and reasoning, the Committee are constrained to observe that the deposition of Shri Sanjeev Saxena does not sound convincing by any stretch of imagination. Shri Saxena’s deposition appears to be too confusing, incoherent and unclear. There are too many loose ends in Shri Saxena’s testimony; the surrounding circumstances too throw up a suspicious scenario. 109. It is in this context that a demand was made by some members of the Committee that the narco test of Shri Sanjeev Saxena needs to be done since they did not lend credence to his testimony. 110. The Committee considered at length15 the request made by some members for putting Shri Sanjeev Saxena to narco test. The Committee note that narco-analysis is a process of psychotherapy conducted on a person by inducing a sleep-like state, with the aid of barbiturates or other drugs. While in such sleep-like state, efforts are made to obtain ‘probative truth’ about a crime, but as per research in some quarters a person subjected to such tests can still hide truth and be able to tell lies and even tend to fantasise. The Committee after due deliberation are of the view that for conducting such tests there is a need for involvement of an outside agency which would entail some time and moreover, such tests do not have any evidentiary value before courts of law. The Committee are also of the view that narco test is just one component of an entire investigating process. The Committee, therefore, feel that conducting of such tests etc. may best be left to specialized investigating agency. The Committee also find it worthwhile to take note of the findings and recommendations made by a six member Technical Peer Review Committee for Brain Electro Physiology Based Technologies in their final report. This Expert Committee was headed by the Director of National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences (NIMHANS), Bangalore. The thrust of the findings/ recommendations of this Expert Committee16 is that “Review of the brain electrophysiology based techniques (brain mapping used in FSL Bangalore & BEOS used in FSL Gandhinagar) suggests sub-optimal scientific basis for them to be used as evidence in court of law. Hence they cannot be used as evidence in the court of law.” 111. The Committee, after taking stock of the situation in its entirety, are of the considered view that the role and involvement of Shri Sanjeev Saxena in the matter needs to be further investigated. Since the Committee do not have the wherewithal of an investigating agency, it would be in the fitness of things if the matter is inquired into by an investigating agency. Shri Amar Singh, MP’s case 112. As already observed by the Committee, the focal thrust of all the allegations is upon Shri Amar Singh. The Committee, at the outset, would like to briefly recapitulate the allegations against Shri Amar Singh. The crux of the allegations is that Shri Amar Singh was instrumental in making offer of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, for voting in favour of the Government or abstaining from voting of the ‘Confidence Motion’. Towards this end, the following contentions have been made:— (i) On the intervening night of 21-22 July, 2008, Shri Rewati Raman Singh tried to cajole the said three members to cross the floor for a consideration and tried to persuade them to meet Shri Amar Singh in this context.

15 A note on ‘Narco-analysis’ considered by the Committee at their sitting held on 27 August, 2008 may kindly be seen at Appendix XV. 16 Please see Appendix-XVI for the Report. 39 (ii) Subsequently, on 22 July, 2008, Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste went to the residence of Shri Amar Singh, i.e., 27, Lodhi Estate in a white Maruti Zen. They were accompanied by Shri Suhail Hindustani. They met Shri Amar Singh for about half an hour. Shri Amar Singh spoke to Shri Ahmad Patel about money and thereafter, he offered to give them token money. Since the complainants were hesitant in accepting money owing to the presence of Media outside the residence of Shri Amar Singh, he (Shri Amar Singh) said that the money would be sent at Shri Argal’s residence through Shri Sanjeev Saxena. He introduced Shri Sanjeev Saxena to them. (iii) In support of these contentions, the complainants placed reliance upon tapes furnished by CNN-IBN team. Particular reliance has been placed upon tape No. 3 which shows video clips of white Maruti Zen bearing Number DL-5C-C-7218 entering 27, Lodhi Estate and after a while coming out. The contention of the complainants is that it is in this car that Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste went along with Shri Suhail Hindustani to Shri Amar Singh’s residence. They have also sought to place reliance upon some telephone call records. 113. The Committee observe that the allegation that Shri Rewati Raman Singh sought to influence the three members to either vote against or abstain from voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’ and persuade them to meet Shri Amar Singh at the latter’s instance could not be substantiated with the help of any clinching evidence. 114. As regards the contention whether Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste went to meet Shri Amar Singh on 22 July 2008, the latter made them speak to Shri Ahmad Patel and assured them token money for voting or abstaining from voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’, the Committee note that the only evidence relied upon by the complainants is the tape which shows the impugned car (Maruti Zen) entering the residence of Shri Amar Singh and after sometime coming out of his residence. It is the contention of Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste that they went along with Shri Suhail in the white Maruti Zen and had conversation with Shri Amar Singh at his residence regarding the offer of money etc. On their own admission they did not take any secret recording devices on their person. Had any such recording been made the same would have been a critical piece of evidence in the event of any conversation between Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste with Shri Amar Singh at his residence. As already noted by the Committee, there is a variance between the version of the said two members and Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni and that of Shri Siddhartha Gautam on the issue of taking the hidden recording devices in the premises of Shri Amar Singh. For want of any such recording of the impugned conversation/talk or any other proof with regard to offer of money, it is not possible to come to any conclusion on the veracity of the allegation or otherwise. 115. The Committee would also like to observe that the rear windows of the said white Maruti Zen had dark/tinted glasses. Hence, on viewing the relevant tape, it could not be seen as to who was sitting in the rear seat? Nor could it be made out beyond doubt as to how many people were actually sitting in the rear seat. In the videos showing the Maruti Zen coming out of Shri Amar Singh’s residence only Shri Suhail sitting in the front seat and the person who is driving the car (who was also partly covering his face with handkerchief) could be clearly seen. Barring a silhouette of one person in the rear seat nothing else could be seen clearly. The Committee also

40 find it worthwhile to note that Shri Siddhartha Gautam of the CNN-IBN team doing the video coverage of the sequence, while deposing before the Committee under oath, inter alia stated “I didn’t see these two MPs going there. We reached there first and car (white Maruti Zen) came later.” When the Committee sought to enquire from Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste as to why did they choose to have the car with tinted/dark glasses in the rear seat, they replied that it was so done in order to ensure secrecy and also to avoid notice of media persons who had gathered outside the residence of Shri Amar Singh. 116. The Committee would now like to consider the evidence sought to be adduced by Shri Ashok Argal vide his letters dated 14 & 17 August, 2008 namely (i) admission form filled by Shri Samarath Saxena, son of Shri Sanjeev Saxena indicating the occupation and designation of his father as service manager at the official residence of Shri Amar Singh; and (ii) a copy of letter dated 2 June, 2008 written by Shri Amar Singh to Shri Deepak Malhotra, Principal, Dayal Singh College (Evening), Lodhi Road wherein he solicited favourable consideration of the candidature of Shri Samarath Saxena, who has been referred to as the son of Shri Sanjeev Saxena, his Secretary. 117. As regards the admission form of his son, Shri Sanjeev Saxena during his evidence before the Committee while maintaining that he had never been under direct employment of Shri Amar Singh submitted that he was referred to as service manager under the employment of Shri Amar Singh in the said admission form only with a view to “creating a favourable impression” with the college authorities so that his son could get admission in the college. Shri Amar Singh too might have addressed the letter on a request made by Shri Saxena to this effect. 118. The Committee are of the view that the thrust of the above stated ‘documentary evidence’ appears to be to drive home the point that the same goes to prove that Shri Sanjeev Saxena was under the employment of Shri Amar Singh which, in turn, tend to prove that Shri Saxena delivered the money in question, as an emissary of Shri Amar Singh, to Shri Argal, Shri Kulaste and Shri Bhagora on 22 July, 2008 at the residence of Shri Argal. 119. After due deliberation and after taking into account the ground realities vis-à-vis persons approaching members of Parliament for recommendatory references or recommendations for admissions in educational institutions, employment etc., the terms that so and so is known to the member or he is under his employment in a particular capacity are not generally in the strict sense of terms factual averments. These are made with a view to facilitating, whatever, favourable action is possible on the recommendatory references/recommendations so made. 120. In the instant case, it is not necessary for the Committee to go into intricacies of the said two documents. The reason being that even if the averments were to be true, going by the cannons of general evidentiary norms, the same cannot be said to lead to any conclusion that Shri Sanjeev Saxena delivered the money to the said three members as an emissary of or at the instance of Shri Amar Singh. 121. As observed by the Committee, there are several loopholes and gaps in the case under consideration. For instance, the role of Shri Sanjeev Saxena; his activities and whereabouts on the interposing night of 21 & 22 July, 2008 particularly between the period when he left Shri Shahid Siddiqui’s house, went to Ashoka Road and from there to Shri Argal’s house along with Shri Suhail and another person referred to as ‘man in yellow shirt’.

41 The Committee are also beguiled by the submission made by Shri Sanjeev Saxena before the Committee that if he were to deliver the money to the BJP MPs at Shri Argal’s residence on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, why would he take a risk and detour at BJP office at Ashoka Road while going to Shri Argal’s residence with the money. 122. The Committee are constrained to observe that the evidence sought to be adduced by the complainants could not lead to any conclusive proof. In other words, the complainants were not able to prove the allegations made by them beyond doubt. On the other hand, depositions of witnesses seeking to prove the contentions of the complainants in a way led to throwing up conflicting scenarios. For instance a poser has also emerged as to what could be the role of Shri Suhail on the intervening night of 21 & 22 July, 2008 while he was with Shri Saxena. These are not the musings of the Committee, the same have, in fact, emerged from the depositions made before the Committee. 123. Neither from the tapes furnished by CNN-IBN nor from any material on record has it been possible for the Committee to come to a conclusive finding linking Shri Amar Singh with the delivery of the money to the said two members through Shri Sanjeev Saxena. The Committee are, therefore, of the view that there is no conclusive proof against Shri Amar Singh vis-à-vis the allegations made against him.

Depositions by Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni and Suhail Hindustani 124. Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni and Shri Suhail Hindustani deposed in support of contentions made by the complainants. Owning to certain factors, which have emerged out of their depositions the Committee, would like to dwell over the same separately. At the outset the Committee would like to recapitulate in brief submissions made by them before the Committee. Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni during his evidence introduced himself as a journalist who has been a political activist of BJP since 1996. He also stated that he had also served as an aide of Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee when he was Prime Minister. Shri Kulkarni submitted a postscript to his written submissions filed by him earlier. Shri Kulkarni at the very outset submitted that the operation by CNN-IBN team was not a sting operation and it was in fact a whistle blowing operation by the said members of BJP, which was in a way conceptualized by him. CNN-IBN only facilitated the recording of the operation voluntarily. Shri Kulkarni also stated that he had conducted this operation on a tip off from Shri Suhail Hindustani (Shri Suhail was also associated with the operation). He conceded that after the operation during their detailed deliberations it was felt that placing of the currency notes on the Table of the House would be an appropriate action to expose the ‘horse-trading’. He alleged that CNN-IBN backtracked on their assurance to air the video footage soon after placing of the currency notes on the Table of the House by the said three members. He also alleged that the CNN-IBN had withheld the tapes covering the over ground operation. Shri Suhail Hindustani during his evidence stated that he is a political activist of BJP and that he did get a tip off regarding endeavours being made to wean away some members of BJP for certain consideration. He admitted having apprised Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni about the same and also being actively associated with the ‘whistle blowing operation’. He further stated he accompanied Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs to the residence of Shri Amar Singh, MP, Rajya Sabha and General Secretary of Samajwadi Party on 22 July, 2008 and gave his version of conversation that took place regarding offer of money etc.

42 125. It became quite evident to the Committee from the evidence of Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Suhail Hindustani and from the evidence of Shri Kulkarni himself that he was the mastermind behind this ‘whistle blowing operation’. As Shri Argal & Shri Kulaste vide their letter dated 3 August, 2008 inter alia enclosed transcripts of the tapes of the whistle blowing operation specific query was put to them as to how could they have in their possession transcripts of the tapes when they did not have the tapes. To this they replied that they got it from Shri Kulkarni. While Shri Kulkarni during his evidence denied having the tapes in his possession, he did concede to the fact that he provided the transcripts to the complainants. He, however, could not explain as to how could he have the transcripts of the tapes without having the tapes. A point to be noted here is that the complainants have been maintaining all through that the tapes were with the CNN-IBN team. 126. A critical point to be noted here is that the transcripts of tapes which were handed over to the Committee vide Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste’s letter dated 3 August, 2008, appeared in toto in the press on 4 August, 2008 even before the Committee could take cognizance of the same at their sitting scheduled that day. 127. The Committee find it very pertinent to point out that the transcript appearing in the press are identical to the ones provided by Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste and more importantly the transcripts match with the audio and video footage contained in the tapes provided by the CNN-IBN team. 128. The Committee find it pertinent to note here the well established position that it is a breach of privilege and contempt of the House to publish any part of the proceedings or evidence given before, or any document presented to a Parliamentary Committee before such proceedings or evidence or documents have been reported to the House (Practice and Procedure of Parliament by M.N. Kaul & S.L. Shakdher pp282-83). 129. In view of this position, the persons parting with transcripts of the tapes, which are in the possession of a Parliamentary Committee and a report in the matter under consideration is yet to be presented to the House, could be held guilty of breach of privilege and contempt of the Committee as well as of the House. The Committee also note that as per the news report appearing in ‘The Hindu’ dated 19 August, 2008 the written submissions made by Shri Suhail Hindustani which are confidential in nature were e-mailed to many press correspondents by the office of Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni. 130. The Committee also find it relevant to take note of article titled “MPs on sale” by Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni in the column ‘Thinking Aloud’ appearing in ‘The Indian Express’ dated 1 August, 2008. In this article, while stating that he was with the CNN-IBN team almost from the beginning to the end of its sting operation and also having witnessed recording of the operation, he inter alia held a view “…The real issue is that the outcome of July 22 has convinced ordinary people in India that horse trading was responsible for saving the UPA Government and that it could well become a permanent feature of politics at the Centre. What could be the consequences of this mass perception? Won’t it make more and more people cynical about politics and politicians? Won’t it make even those political parties, such as the BJP, which speaks of probity in public life, susceptible to thinking that the only way to beat the wheeler-dealers of a rival party is to have smarter and more resourceful wheeler-dealers of their own?” (emphasis supplied).

43 The Committee feel that a logical inference that could possibly be drawn is—is it to suggest that the whistle blowing operators and all those who were associated with it were acting as wheeler-dealers? When this poser was put to Shri Kulkarni, even though he admitted having stated this in the said article, he emphatically denied of being a wheeler-dealer. On being again asked as to whether it was not a paradoxical position, he had no answer to that. The Committee wishes to bring this on record. 131. The Committee would now like to allude to another critical point which was admitted by Shri Kulkarni during his evidence that after conclusion of the whistle blowing operation he along with the three complainants, Shri Suhail and others had detailed deliberations over the issue and it was their considered view that placing of the currency notes on the Table of the House would be appropriate action with a view to expose the ‘horse trading’. 132. The Committee would merely wish to observe that placing of the currency notes on the Table of the House is misconduct in terms of provisions of rule 349 (xvi) (which inter alia prohibits display of any exhibits in the House) of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha. Considering their remit, the Committee would not like to delve further on this aspect. 133. After having discussed the points emerging out of the deposition of Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni, the Committee could not help gathering an impression that Shri Kulkarni was justifying the placing of the currency notes on the Table of the House. During his deposition he appeared to pontificate and adopt a holier than thou attitude which bordered on showing disrespect and contempt to the Committee. 134. Coming to the deposition of Shri Suhail Hindustani, the Committee find that he had admitted having played an active part in the whistle blowing operation. The Committee is constrained to observe that Shri Suhail had been flippant while deposing before the Committee. The Committee would like to express their resentment at the callous and cavalier manner in which he conducted himself. Issue of influencing members 135. An important aspect involved in the matter under consideration relates to the issue of attempt to influence members of Lok Sabha in their parliamentary conduct. In this context, the Committee note that as is well established “Any attempt to influence members by improper means in their parliamentary conduct is a breach of privilege. Thus, offering a bribe or any payment to a member to influence him in his conduct as a member…has been treated as a breach of privilege…Any attempt to influence a member otherwise than by way of argument which has as its motive the intention to deter him from performing his duty, constitutes a breach of privilege.” (Kaul and Shakdher pp 286-87) 136. In this context the Committee would like to draw attention to the provisions of article 105(2) of the , which provides that “No Member of Parliament shall be liable to any proceedings in any court in respect of anything said or any vote given by him in Parliament...” The Committee would also like to draw attention to the judgement of the Supreme Court in P.V. Narsimharao – Versus – State (CBI/SPE) [1998 (4) SCC 626] popularly known as Jharkhand Mukti Morcha case wherein the court held that the members who took bribe and participated in the voting on the No Confidence Motion held against P.V. Narsimharao Government in July, 1993 had the immunity from legal proceedings under the provisions of article 105(2) of the Constitution.

44 137. Coming to the instant case, as is well evident the said three complainants viz. Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora were volunteers in the whistle blowing operation. Hence, they did not take money for voting in a particular manner. In other words, the money accepted by them albeit as volunteers of whistle blowing operation had no nexus to the vote cast by them. Consequently, they do not enjoy any immunity under article 105(2) of the Constitution. A point to be noted is that the transaction of offer of money and acceptance of money took place outside the precincts of the House viz. residence of Shri Ashok Argal and not in Parliament. Hence, as is obvious, there is no case of their having been influenced. But the fact remains that those who were offering them money to either abstain from voting in the Confidence Motion held on 22 July, 2008 or vote in favour of the Confidence Motion did not know that the members were volunteers or party to the whistle blowing operation. Hence, those who offered money to the members to vote in a particular manner could be said to be guilty of influencing the members. On the other hand, it could also be well argued that the persons involved in the whistle blowing operation who facilitated the offer of the money to the members with a view to influencing their parliamentary conduct, too could be held guilty of abetting the influencing of members. Incidentally, none of them would have immunity from legal proceedings under the provisions of article 105(2) of the Constitution. It would be worthwhile to note in this context the following observations made by Shri Fali S. Nariman, made during the interview with CNN-IBN which was aired on 11 August, 2008, “…It was stated more than once that MPs had decided to become whistle-blowers etc. But you see the people who were willing to accept money for votes knew that under the judgement of the Supreme Court, the majority judgement, bribe takers were not answerable in any court, civil or criminal, for taking bribe for votes. That is another consideration which the Committee will definitely have to take into account weighing all the factors together…” 138. At this juncture, the Committee wish to take note of the following provisions of Section 7 of the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1986:- “Whoever, being or expecting to be a public servant, accepts or obtains or agrees to accept or attempts to obtain from any person, for himself or for any other person, any gratification whatever, other than legal remuneration, as a motive or reward for doing or forbearing to do any official act or for showing or forbearing to show, in the exercise of his official functions, favour or disfavour to any person or for rendering or attempting to render any service or disservice to any person, with the Central Government or any State Government or Parliament or the Legislature of any State… shall be punishable with imprisonment which shall not be less than six months but which may extend to five years and shall also be liable to fine.” Incidentally, the Supreme Court in the JMM case held Members of Parliament to be public servants. 139. In the event of any Member of Parliament being involved in the offer of money, he could be proceeded against even under the provisions of Section 7 of the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1986.

45 140. The Committee observe that of the four persons against whom mainly allegations have been made, two belong to Rajya Sabha. For seeking their depositions, an elaborate procedure as recommended by the Committee of Privileges, Second Lok Sabha in their Sixth Report is required to be followed. As per the procedure:— (i) A request has to be made either by the Committee or more appropriately by the Speaker, Lok Sabha to the Chairman, Rajya Sabha in this regard; (ii) Thereafter, Rajya Sabha would have to grant leave to the Members permitting them to appear before the Inquiry Committee as witnesses; (iii) Even if Rajya Sabha were to grant leave permitting the members to appear before the Committee, they would be free either to appear before the Committee or decline to do so. Thus, the said two members could not have been compelled to appear before the Committee for witnesses. In any case, for this procedure to make a headway Rajya Sabha have to be in session. Rajya Sabha would only be meeting along with Lok Sabha on 17 October, 2008. Even thereafter, there was no guarantee that the members could agree to appear before the Inquiry Committee. This procedure would be required to be followed only in case the Committee after examination of documents on record felt that it was justified and mandatory to seek the evidence of the said two members of Rajya Sabha. The Committee have dealt with this matter in their conclusions.

Conclusions 141. The Committee after taking into account their findings and considering in totality the facts and circumstances of the matter under consideration arrive at the following conclusions: (i) Shri A.B. Bardhan, who literally set the cat amongst pigeons by saying in a public rally that members were being bought for Rs 25 crores, could not substantiate his assertions. The Committee are, therefore, of the view that these were purely off-the-cuff remarks devoid of any substance. Besides, as observed by the Committee, it was evident that on 22 July, 2008, during the voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’, cross-voting took place on both the sides. (ii) Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s going to Shri Ashok Argal’s residence in the intervening night of 21st and 22nd July, 2008 is uncontroverted. The important question is whether the visit was at Shri Argal’s invitation (as stated by Shri Rewati Raman Singh) to facilitate Shri Argal’s joining the Samajwadi Party or it was at Shri Rewati Ram Singh’s own initiative (as contended by Shri Argal) to persuade him and his colleagues to vote in favour of motion of confidence or to abstain from voting. Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s version can be faulted on two grounds. First, if the initiative for the meeting came from Shri Argal, it does not appeal to reason why a person of Shri Singh’s standing should hotfoot to Shri Argal’s residence in the 46 middle of the night. The meeting could very well have taken place the next day. Secondly, conceding that the meeting, as averred by Shri Rewati Raman Singh, was for the purpose of facilitating Shri Argal’s joining the Samajwadi Party, it seems improbable that there could have been any understanding regarding Samajwadi Party ticket for Shri Argal without there being some sort of quid pro quo arrangement requiring Shri Argal to vote in favour of motion of confidence, particularly in view of the timing of the meeting. The voting on the motion of confidence was on the next day. Shri Singh was, therefore, in a now or never situation. This view is strengthened by the remarks Shri Singh is heard making on Tape No. 2 viz, “…Don’t worry. We are with you…everything will be done before you…I have not said anything about the amount. I have talked to him in your presence. The amount will be settled in your presence. You can say ‘yes’ or ‘no’…all will be settled before you…If it suits you, say ‘yes’, if not, say ‘no’…you would get the money there…let us move now…” Unfortunately, there is nothing on record to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Shri Singh was in Shri Argal’s residence as Shri Amar Singh’s emissary for the purpose of securing Shri Argal’s support to the motion of confidence. Further, as Shri Singh did not accompany the two members to Shri Amar Singh’s residence, his role seems to be limited to persuading the members to meet Shri Amar Singh. He was definitely not a party to the money transaction. Taking the statement made by Shri Singh before the Committee at face value that the talk of money was in context of Shri Argal’s joining the Samajwadi Party the Committee still feel that a person of Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s eminence and standing should not have involved himself in such shenanigans. Besides, the critical juncture at which this conversation took place and the very thrust of the conversation has a tendency to raise doubts over the conduct of Shri Rewati Raman Singh vis-a-vis his endeavours to facilitate defection of the members to Samajwadi Party in violation of the provisions of the Tenth Schedule to the Constitution. (iii) Nobody has claimed talking face-to-face with Shri Ahmad Patel. Conceding, for argument’s sake, that the members did talk to somebody from Shri Amar Singh’s house, there is nothing to prove that the number dialed from Shri Singh’s house belonged to Shri Ahmad Patel. Conceding further, for argument’s sake that number did belong to Shri Patel, there is nothing to prove that the person on the other side was in fact Shri Ahmad Patel, particularly in view of the fact that Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste admitted having never met Shri Patel, and also that they did not recognize his voice. The Committee are, therefore, of the view that there is practically no case against Shri Ahmad Patel. His alleged complicity in the episode is based entirely on presumptions and surmises. (iv) There is no direct evidence against Shri Amar Singh. The Committee are inclined to discount the video clip of a car entering and coming out of Shri Amar Singh’s house

47 because in the first place the video clip does not show the faces of persons (claimed to be Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste) sitting in the rear seat. Secondly, a car seen entering and coming out of his residence is neither here nor there. It does not prove anything. Presuming, members were sitting in the car, it does not prove whether they went of their own volition or were invited. It does not prove what transpired inside the house. There is nothing to show that money was offered for voting in favour of Motion of Confidence or for abstaining from voting. (v) Having discounted the video clip, the Committee are left with the video clip showing Shri Rewati Raman Singh in conversation with Shri Argal and others and the video clip showing Shri Sanjeev Saxena and the man in yellow shirt arriving with the bag and displaying currency notes in Shri Argal’s residence. (vi) The Committee have already discussed the video clip showing Shri Singh in conversation with Shri Argal and others and commented upon the role of Shri Singh. The point is: does this clip prove Shri Amar Singh’s involvement? It may be argued that Shri Rewati Raman Singh admitted before the Committee that he was requesting the members to meet Shri Amar Singh, which should suffice to prove Shri Amar Singh’s involvement. The Committee’s dilemma is that if they have to believe the testimony of Shri Rewati Raman Singh before the Committee, they would have to go whole hog and also believe his explanation for requesting the members to meet Shri Amar Singh, that is, for discussing the details of securing a ticket from Samajwadi Party for the forthcoming elections and the amount of money to be paid to them for the funding of the elections. In that event, there is nothing to prove the involvement of Shri Amar Singh inasmuch as the allegation of payment of money by him to members to vote in favour of Motion of Confidence is concerned. (vii) This leaves the Committee with the video-tape showing Sanjeev Saxena coming with a bag to Shri Argal’s house and displaying currency notes there. (viii) The Committee have already commented upon the unconvincing nature of Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s testimony before the Committee. The question is: even if Shri Saxena is proved to be telling untruths, does the video tape and his evidence conclusively prove Shri Amar Singh’s involvement? (ix) Shri Saxena might not be telling the truth when he said that he was no longer in employment of Shri Amar Singh; he might also not be telling the truth when he said that the bag full of currency notes was thrust upon him and he was forced to carry it inside Shri Argal’s house, but are these untruths, if they be untruths, sufficient to prove that the bag was really coming from Shri Amar Singh and was, as contended, token money for voting in favour of Motion of Confidence? Unfortunately, the Committee do not have the means to expose the untruths of Shri Saxena. The Committee would, however, not like to nail the blame on Shri Amar Singh’s door merely on the strength of Shri Saxena’s perceived untruths. (x) In this era of sting operations, it is very difficult to say who is stinging whom. For example, it is not that difficult to win over a person working for a member, hand him a bag full of money to be delivered to somebody and then execute a sting operation giving an impression that the person was actually delivering the money on behalf of that member. 48 (xi) The Committee are neither saying that this was the sequence of events in this case nor are they saying that this was not the sequence of events. The Committee are merely pointing out that such a scenario is within the realm of probability and therefore, it becomes all the more essential for the Committee to tread with caution lest it may sully somebody’s reputation without conclusive proof. (xii) The Committee are constrained to observe that the material on record does not conclusively prove that the money contained in the bag, which was eventually displayed in the House, was actually sent by Shri Amar Singh for the purpose of winning over Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, to vote in favour of Motion of Confidence. (xiii) As there is no case against Shri Ahmad Patel and there is no clinching evidence against Shri Amar Singh, there is no occasion for the Committee or the House to make a request to Rajya Sabha requiring the said two members to appear before the Inquiry Committee for evidence. There is also no occasion for referring the matter relating to complaint against the said two members to Rajya Sabha for examination, investigation and report. (xiv) As regards Shri Sanjeev Saxena, the Committee are also constrained to observe that there are many loopholes and loose ends in his testimony. He conceded having given the money to the said three members on 22 August, 2008 at the residence of Shri Argal, as he could not have possibly denied the veracity of the tapes provided by CNN-IBN showing him delivering the money. The clarification sought to be given by him in this regard are not at all convincing to say the least. (xv) Shri Saxena was a bribe giver wittingly or unwittingly. He, therefore, does not enjoy any immunity under article 105(2) of the Constitution. Evidently, he did not know that the members were whistle blowers. Hence, he could very well be giving bribe with a view to influencing the members in their parliamentary conduct. Several posers have come up before the Committee…On whose behest Shri Saxena was operating; if it was on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, as alleged—why did he go to BJP office at Ashoka Road—from where the bag of money is stated to have been loaded into his car. Was Saxena hijacked and coerced into completing an operation that had been aborted for a consideration? Therefore, his role in the matter needs to be investigated further. (xvi) Shri Suhail Hindustani on his own admission was a volunteer in the ‘whistle-blowing operation’ considering the facts and circumstances of the case he does not appear to be above board vis-a-vis his own manouvering in the impugned whistle blowing operation. Doubts do persist with regard to his role, if any, in arranging for money in question. The matter needs to be investigated by investigating agencies. (xvii) As regards Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni, the Committee note that on his own admission he masterminded the impugned whistle blowing operation. He also admitted of being an active votary of the proposal that the money be placed on the Table of the House. The justification put forth by him for conceptualizing the whistle blowing operation have been found to be unconvincing. As facts reveal, Shri Kulkarni facilitated in the giving of bribes to members.

49 142. The Committee have given a careful consideration to the suggestions made by Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav and Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra in their letters dated 15 and 16 October, 2008 respectively. The Committee find that most of the issues raised by the two members have already been dealt with in an appropriate manner in the Report. The Committee, therefore, feel that there is no occasion for any further modifications in the Report and decided to, however, append the said two letters by the members in the Report by way of appendices. VIII. Observations 143. Ethical fibre is the sine qua non for the very credibility and respectability of democratic institutions. The conduct of elected representatives of the people is under constant gaze and scrutiny of general public. More so, in the present era of increased awareness and all pervasive media and its reach to the general public. The incident of placing of currency notes on the Table of the House when the whole nation was watching the final leg of the proceedings of the Confidence Motion on 22 July, 2008 and the allegation that this money was offered to some legislators for influencing them to vote in a particular manner has shaken the roots of our democratic polity. This was indeed a dark day in the annals of the history of Indian Parliament. 144. This incident, broadly speaking, has two aspects to it. One relates to influencing or attempt to influence conduct of members in performance of their parliamentary duties and the other one pertains to the very act of placing money on the Table of the House. The implications of these two aspects have already been discussed by the Committee (at paras 132 and 135 infra). Considering the Committee’s remit, the Committee have restricted their area of investigation with regard to allegations made against some members/persons of having been instrumental in offering money to some other members with a view to influencing them in a particular manner during the voting on the Confidence Motion held on 22 July, 2008. After due investigation, the Committee have arrived at their findings and conclusions. 145. The Committee after keeping in view certain factors, which emerged in the matter under consideration, wish to make some observations. 146. The case under consideration owes its genesis to a whistle blowing operation conducted with association of a TV Channel. The Committee appreciate all endeavours, whether they are called sting operations or whistle-blowing operations, which attempt to pave way for cleansing our political system. 147. The Committee note that the term whistleblower derives from the practice of English bobbies (policemen), who would blow their whistles when they noticed the commission of a crime. The whistle would alert both law enforcement officers and the general public of danger. As regards definition of the term the Committee note that the most whistleblowers are internal whistleblowers, who report misconduct to a fellow employee or superior within the organisation. External whistleblowers, however, report misconduct to outside persons or entities. In these cases, depending on the information’s severity and nature, whistleblowers may report the misconduct to lawyers, the media, law enforcement or watchdog agencies, or other local, State, or federal agencies. On the other hand, in sting operations deceptive means of entrapments are used by the operators of the sting operation, which could very well be media persons with a view to “catch a person committing a crime”.

50 148. The Committee feel that the impugned operation in the case under consideration appears to be a hybrid between a sting and a whistle blowing operation. These are merely observations, as the Committee neither claim to have nor could possibly have an expertise in such matters. The Committee would not like to elaborate further. 149. Coming to the instant case, as observed by the Committee earlier, Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni, admittedly the mastermind behind the operation in question, during his evidence submitted that the said operation by CNN-IBN team was not a sting operation and it was a ‘whistle blowing operation’ by the said three complainants and that CNN-IBN only facilitated the recording of the operation voluntarily. Earlier, the three complainants in their joint complaint dated 25 July, 2008 also termed it was a ‘whistle blowing operation’. Outside, in his interactions with media persons, Shri Arun Jaitley, member, Rajya Sabha also claimed this operation to be a ‘whistle blowing operation’. These declarations have thrown up the concept of ‘whistle blowing operation’. 150. Alongside these journalistic endeavours, the fact, which needs to be emphasised, is that Houses of Parliament and Inquiry Committees constituted by House did play a proactive role in the wake of exposes in ‘Operation Duryodhan’ (Cash for Query case) and ‘Operation Chakravyuh’ (MPLADS case). In ‘Cash for Query case’ on motions adopted by Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha on 23 December, 2005, ten members of Lok Sabha and one member of Rajya Sabha were expelled from the membership of Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha respectively. In MPLADS case, four members of Lok Sabha were reprimanded and suspended from the membership of the House for a stipulated period on a motion adopted to this effect on 20 March, 2006. Incidentally, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste (one of the complainant in the present case) was one of the four members who was reprimanded and suspended from the membership of the House in MPLADS case. In Rajya Sabha, in MPLADS case one member was expelled from the membership of the House on a motion adopted by the House on 21 March, 2006. 151. While acknowledging the positive role played by certain sections of media, the Committee are constrained to observe that not all journalistic enterprises, particularly, sting operations are above board. One need not be a Sherlock Holmes to discern the motives behind such sting operations. It would be quite naïve to believe that sting operations are conducted solely with a noble objective to cleanse the public system and with no other motive behind the same. Experience has shown that sting operations are often driven by sensational quotients of such operations and to increase their TRP ratings vis-à-vis the rival TV Channels and more often than not for monetary or other considerations. 152. The Committee in this context would like to invite attention to the following observations and recommendations made by the Committee to inquire into allegations of improper conduct on the part of some members in the matter of implementation of MPLAD Scheme (14 LS) in their report which was laid on the Table of Lok Sabha on 14 March, 2006:— “67. Having asserted the need for strict adherence to ethical norms by the Legislators and commending the ongoing endeavours for establishing a sound ethical order among legislators, the Committee feel that they would be failing in their duty if they do not make a few observations with regard to the bona fides of the sting operation conducted by the DIG team and the role of Star News Channel in the matter. The Committee note that without having full and clinching evidence with respect to some members, the

51 media team went ahead airing the entire footage in the name of ‘exposing’ the dealings with regard to MPLAD Scheme as a public interest measure. The position taken by the media persons before the Committee that they did clarify the position while airing such video footage, does not carry conviction. 68. The Committee wish to express concern over the fact that the media has been indulging in a race to achieve viewership through sensationalism on a competitive basis. In this case, a TV channel has implied that all members are susceptible to corruption. Carrying out such operations in an unregulated manner, which cast aspersions on members of Parliament, erodes the credibility of our democratic institutions. The Committee are, therefore, of the opinion that such motivated trial by the media needs to be regulated. The Committee further feel that the Government should, through proper authority, lay down specific guidelines and norms for sting operators to ensure that the basic journalistic ethics are scrupulously adhered to… 72. The Committee also recommend that the Union Government may initiate steps for laying guidelines and norms for sting operations.” 153. The Committee consider it worthwhile to note in this context the following observations vis-à-vis sting operations made by the Delhi High Court in their decision dated 14 December, 2007 in Ms. Uma Khurana’s case [WP (Crl.) No. 1175/2007] :— “In today’s age and world, the impact of media is far reaching. Electronic media as compared to print media has an added advantage because visuals have greater ramification and impact as it directly and immediately influences the mind of the viewer. With the growth of the number of News Channels and increasing popularity of “breaking news”, electronic media has come to play a major role in stirring public opinion and consciousness. It is this potency to reach the public that entails that all the channels understand and realize the heavy responsibility that is thrust on them and that there is no case for possible misuse. Keeping in mind the role a responsible media can play in disseminating information and creating awareness among masses without crossing the limits that a civilised society would expect, we proceed to dispose of the present writ petition…Regulation of electronic media has always invoked sharp and divergent views. Certain proposed guidelines were also placed before us by the learned Amicus. The said proposed guidelines are as follows: ‘1. A channel proposing to telecast a sting operation shall obtain a certificate from the person who recorded or produced the same certifying that the operation is genuine to his knowledge. 2. There must be concurrent record in writing of the various stages of the sting operation. 3. Permission for telecasting a sting operation be obtained from a Committee appointed by the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. The said Committee will be headed by a retired High Court Judge to be appointed by the Government in consultation with the High Court and two members, one of which should be a person not below the rank of Additional Secretary and the second one being the Additional Commissioner of Police. Permission to telecast sting operation will be granted by the Committee after satisfying itself that it is in public interest to telecast the same. The safeguard is necessary since those who mount a sting operation themselves commit the offences of impersonation, criminal trespass under false pretence and making a person commit an offence. 4. While the transcript of the records may be edited, the films and tapes themselves should not be edited. Both edited and unedited tapes be produced before the Committee. 5. Sting operation shown on TV or published

52 in print media should be scheduled with an awareness of the likely audience/reader in mind. Great care and sensitivity should be exercised to avoid shocking or offending the audience. 6. All television channels must ensure compliance with the Certification Rules prescribed under the Cable Television Network (Regulation) Act, 1995 and the Rules made thereunder. 7. The Chief Editor of the channel shall be made responsible for self regulation and ensure that the programmes are consistent with the Rules and comply with all other legal and administrative requirements under various statutes in respect of content broadcast on the channel. 8. The subject matter of reports or current events shall not: (a) Deliberately present as true any unverified or inaccurate facts so as to avoid trial by media since a ‘man is innocent till proven guilty by law’; (b) Present facts and views in such a manner as is likely to mislead the public about their factual inaccuracy or veracity; (c) Mislead the public by mixing the facts and fiction in such a manner that the public are unlikely to be able to distinguish between the two; (d) Present a distorted picture of reality by over-emphasising or under-playing certain aspects that may trivialize or sensationalise the content; (e) Make public any activities or material relating to an individual’s personal or private affairs or which invades an individual’s privacy unless there is an identifiable large public interest; (f) Create public panic or unnecessary alarm which is likely to encourage or incite the public to crime or lead to disorder or be offensive to public or religious feeling. 9. Broadcasters/Media shall observe general community standards of decency and civility in news content, taking particular care to protect the interest and sensitivities of children and general family viewing. 10. News should be reported with due accuracy. Accuracy requires the verification (to the fullest extent possible) and presentation of all facts that are necessary to understand a particular event or issue. 11. Infringement of privacy in a news based/related programme is a sensitive issue. Therefore, greater degree of responsibility should be exercised by the channels while telecasting any such programmes, as may be breaching privacy of individuals. 12. Channels must not use material relating to persons’ personal or private affairs or which invades an individual’s privacy unless there is identifiable large public interest reason for the material to be broadcast or published. The Ministry of Information and Broadcasting is already examining whether a statute and/ or a code should be enacted. The above proposed guidelines should be considered by the concerned Ministry and if they find favour, they may be incorporated in the enactment/ guidelines, with modifications as deemed fit and proper.” 154. The Committee, at this stage, would wish to note that when during evidence of Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief of CNN-IBN, his attention was drawn to the above observations of the High Court, Shri Sardesai submitted as follows:— “Even before that judgement, we had our own code of conduct because from our partnership with CNN, we had a very strict code of conduct and guidelines. One of the guidelines is on sting operation. Firstly, sting operations will be done by us only when a story cannot be acquired by other means possible after you have exhausted all other means of acquiring that story. Secondly, it will be acquired without paying money so that it should not seem that our reporter has been involved in any act of inducement. Thirdly, it should be done when you feel there is an act of criminality which is in the public interest which you believe needs to be exposed in the public interest. These are three criteria that we tend to adopt. Also, after the sting operation is done, you will give a fair hearing to all those whom you may have captured on a hidden camera so that they are given a chance to defend themselves.”

53 155. The Committee also note that 2 October, 2008, the News Broadcasters Association(NBA)— a group of 14 private broadcasters representing 30 news channels have set up a News Broadcasting Standards Disputes Redressal Authority as a measure of self-regulation. This nine member authority is headed by the former , Shri J.S. Verma. NBA has already adopted a Code of Ethics and Broadcasting Standards for itself, which came into effect from 2 October, 2008. The Committee commend this self regulating initiative by the media. 156. In the context of the inquiry by the Inquiry Committees of the Houses of Parliament with regard to misconducts by legislators brought to fore through exposes through sting operations and airing of the same on TV channels a fact that needs to be appreciated is that Parliamentary Committees inquiring into such cases act as quasi judicial bodies and not as investigating agencies. Such Inquiry Committees follow the same procedure as is followed by Committee of Privileges while examining and investigating a privilege issue. Hence, such Committees do the investigation and also arrive at their findings and conclusions in the matters and based on such findings and conclusions they make appropriate recommendations. The Committees are only recommendatory bodies and the House is free to agree or disagree with their findings. On the other hand there are differences vis-à-vis cases being dealt with under criminal jurisprudence. There the criminal cases are first investigated by police or concerned investigating agencies. Thereafter, the matters go to the court only after charge sheets are filed. The Courts hear the parties and come to conclusions and decide the cases applying the law of the land. This position would show the difference between a matter being investigated by a Parliamentary Committee in a quasi-judicial capacity and those being investigated under the criminal laws of the land. As regards this Inquiry Committee, like all other Parliamentary Committees, while inquiring the matter under consideration, the Committee have taken ample care to follow the basic principles of jurisprudence and the cannons of natural justice. 157. In this context, the Committee find it worthwhile to quote the the following observations made by the Committee to Inquire into Misconduct of Members of Lok Sabha (14 LS) in their Second Report on “Various Facets of Misconduct and Basic Attributes of Standards of Conduct/ Behaviour expected of Members” which was laid on the Table of the House on 30 April, 2008:— “Experience has shown that though the Parliamentary Committee may neither have the expertise of an investigating agency like police nor the judicial acumen and training of a court, they certainly have the sagacity and wisdom in enough measure, and then some, to be able to follow rules of natural justice” (Para 91 of the report) 158. It needs to be emphasised here that from the perspective of an Inquiry Committee, no unethical conduct is spared. But at the same time, for arriving at any conclusion that an unethical conduct has been committed, there needs to be a conclusive proof. It should also be well appreciated that any finding or conclusion by the Inquiry Committee involving a criminal offence based on insufficient evidence could prejudice a criminal investigation into the matter. As already observed the Committee cannot possibly have the wherewithal of investigating devices, which the Police and other investigating agencies possess. Hence, in cases where the facts are confounding and no clear picture is emerging without further detailed investigation, it would be in the fitness of the things if such cases are inquired into by the concerned and appropriate investigating agencies.

54 159. In the instant case, the Committee made all feasible efforts through the devices available to them to investigate as thoroughly as possible the matter under consideration. The Committee were faced with a dilemma in view of the unique nature of the matter under consideration. As already observed by the Committee, they were not convinced about the genuineness of evidence tendered before the Committee by Shri Sanjeev Saxena and Shri Suhail Hindustani. Despite the request made by some members for conducting Narco-Analysis test of Shri Sanjeev Saxena, the Committee could not persuade themselves to accede to this request because the Committee feel that such tests should be best left to the concerned investigative agencies. 160. The Committee are constrained to express their grave concern as also their anguish over some tactics adopted in certain quarters to pressurise the Committee while they were examining and investigating the matter. In this context, the Committee would like to invite attention to the following news reports which appeared on 19 August, 2008 by way of instance:— ‘The Times of India’17 had inter alia reported that “…The Lok Sabha Committee probing the ‘Cash for vote’ scam concluded its hearing on Monday with the clear indication that it would give a 4:3 split finding without clearing the air on the sensational episode during the trust vote…The divided verdict will also set the stage for continued agitation by the BJP which, according to sources, may reject the findings of the Committee...” ‘The Economic Times’18 had inter alia reported that the Inquiry Committee “…is likely to give a clean chit to Samajwadi Party General Secretary Amar Singh…Even though Mr. Saxena’s testimony was found to be having loopholes, the Committee is likely to use his evidence to exonerate Mr. Amar Singh of the bribery charges. The UPA has a majority in the seven-member panel. The Committee is likely to use it to push through the report…” 161. The Committee would wish to emphasise here that when these reports appeared in media on 19 August, 2008, the Committee were yet to deliberate upon the matter at length for which the Committee scheduled their meeting for 27 August, 2008. Hence, under the circumstances, if any news report were to suggest that the Committee were divided over the matter, the same would certainly tantamount to commenting on the outcome of the Committee’s deliberations; imputing motives to the Committee and also casting reflections on the Committee. The Committee just wishes to bring this position to light. The Committee would also wish to mention about some reports in media on 6 October, 2008. That day (6.10.2008), the Committee were scheduled to consider their draft Report in the matter. The Committee, however, did not adopt their draft Report at the sitting held that day as members wanted more time to go through the draft Report. The Committee note with concern that ‘The Indian Express’19 published in the morning of 6 October, 2008, i.e. prior to consideration of their Report by the Committee, had in a news-item referred to recommendations purported to be contained in the draft Report of the Committee. Besides, after the Committee’s sitting on 6 October, 2008 reports carried by several television news channels and news-items carried in several newspapers on 7 October, 2008 had referred to the recommendations purported to be contained in the draft Report of the Committee. 162. According to Kaul & Shakdher it is well established that publication of a draft or a approved draft of a Parliamentary Committee, before such Report has been presented to the House, is treated as a breach of privilege of the House(5th edn. p.283)

17 Please see Appendix-XVII. 18 Please see Appendix-XVIII. 19 Please see Appendix-XIX. 55 Erskine May’s Parliamentary Practice lays down that any publication of a draft Report which has been submitted to a Committee before its presentation to the House may be treated as contempt (23rd edn. p.776). 163. The Committee would, therefore, like to emphasise here that publication of the news-items in newspapers and telecast of reports by television news channels on 6 and 7 October, 2008, giving publicity to purported recommendations contained in the draft Report of the Committee were based on unsubstantiated and unauthorized sources. Such reports, besides amounting to a breach of privilege and contempt of the House, also amount to lowering the dignity of the Inquiry Committee as well as the House and may attract penal powers of the House. 164. The Committee would also wish to bring on record certain observations made by the leading legal luminaries of the day during their interviews with Shri Rajdeep Sardesai in the feature which was aired by CNN-IBN on 11 August, 2008 while showing the video footage of the said whistle blowing/sting operation. While dwelling at length on the sequence of events in the said incident as also the evidence adduced by the complainants, Shri Arun Jaitley, Member, Rajya Sabha inter-alia observed. “The connection between Sanjeev Saxena and Amar Singh is clear. One, Sanjeev Saxena came as a part of series of incidents. Rewati Raman made the offer; the MPs had a meeting with Amar Singh where the amount was concluded; he came to deliver the money. Two, the car in which he came is registered in the name of a firm of Mr. Amar Singh’s family members. And that car is identifiable not only by my MPs it is also identifiable by your CNN/IBN team which was present in the house. Three, till the 20th we have produced SMSs that Sanjeev Saxena was sending to Delhi’s political media inviting them for a 7 o’clock press conference of Mr. Amar Singh to be held on the 20th evening. And suddenly on 22nd he becomes a stranger to him. Four, the fact the video screen will indicate and the transcript we have released also indicates he connected Mr. Amar Singh’s number several times in order to get the three MPs to speak to Mr. Amar Singh. The phone record we have submitted to the Committee indicates phone calls made from Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile number to Mr. Amar Singh’s landline. The movement of Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile phone, which is obviously in his hand or in his pocket, can also be traced out through the movement of the cell towers, whether he traveled from Lodhi Estate or somewhere right till Feroze Shah Road that comes under the cell tower, located close to Feroze Shah Road. We have now produced further contemporaneous evidence to show that even in the harmless innocuous documents, like his son’s college admission form which he signs, he gives his office address as the residence of Mr. Amar Singh, 27 Lodhi Estate. We wanted to expose it to the public at large, and we thought that the fact that an independent channel will record this and telecast it appropriately would itself expose this incident. We also wanted to shake the conscience of this country by placing it before Parliament and arousing the national consciousness. When the…Government is dependent on Mr. Amar Singh for even a 24 hour survival, it would be naïve for us, in the first instance, to depend on (PM’s) police.” 165. To this, Shri Fali S. Nariman noted jurist and former Member of Rajya Sabha observed “…I think the programme would have had much more credibility if you had excluded a very senior member of the BJP party Mr. Arun Jaitley, a very good friend of mine, who is always extraordinarily coherent and very very good, who served to fill up the links in the evidence which was not supplied. That somehow detracted from what you called right, at the beginning, and I have no

56 doubt that that was your intention, what you call a totally impassive and non-partisan approach…You see, the problem, the additional problem is that it was stated more than once that MPs had decided to become whistleblowers, etc. But you see the people who were willing to accept money for votes knew that under the judgement of the Supreme Court, the majority judgement, bribe takers were not answerable in any court, civil or criminal, for taking bribe for votes. That is another consideration, which the Committee will definitely have to take into account weighing all the factors together. And, I think, a lot more evidence than these tapes will have to be gone into; oral evidence, documentary evidence and ultimately a conclusion. But since you asked me, as a former parliamentarian, I would certainly say that the faith of the people in Parliament would only get restored just as it was restored when the ‘Cash for Questions’ case Parliament took direct action and expelled those Members.” 166. The Committee have also taken note of the views expressed by the distinguished legal luminaries, such as, Shri Soli Sorabjee, Former Attorney General of India, Shri B.G. Verghese and Shri Harish Salve during the programme which was aired by CNN-IBN on 11 August, 2008. 167. The Committee, while summing up their findings and conclusions, have inter alia observed that one of the crucial factors vis a vis their investigation was the procedure for requiring appearance of Members of one House before the other House as recommended by the Committee of Privileges, Second Lok Sabha in their Sixth Report which was adopted by the House. While this procedure was based on the practice obtaining in the House of Commons at that point of time, as already observed, the practice has since undergone a change in terms of Standing Order No. 138 of the House of Commons and Standing Order No. 22 of House of Lords through which a general leave has been granted to any member requested to attend as a witness before a Lords Committee or its sub-Committee/a Commons Committee or its sub-Committee, if he thinks fit. The Committee feel that it is about time that a similar procedure is adopted in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha by amending the Rules of Procedure of the two Houses.

IX. Recommendations 168. The Committee after taking into account their findings and conclusions in the matter [as detailed in para 141 particularly at (xiv) to (xvii) relating to the roles of Shri Sanjeev Saxena, Shri Suhail Hindustani and Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni], recommend that this matter may be probed further by an appropriate investigating agency. 169. The Committee further recommend that the procedure for requiring appearance of member of one House before other House or Committee thereof, as recommended by the Committee of Privileges (Second Lok Sabha) in their Sixth Report in 1958, needs to be reviewed to bring it at par with the position as is obtaining now in Parliament of United Kingdom (as stated in para No. 167 of the Report).

New Delhi (V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO) Dated: 30 October, 2008 CHAIRMAN.

57 NOTES GIVEN BY PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV, PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA AND SHRI MOHD. SALIM, MPs ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl ÁŸflÊ‚— x{, ŸÊÚÕ¸ ∞flãÿÍ, ‚¢‚Œ ‚ŒSÿ (‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê) Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-vvÆÆÆv ŸÃÊ ŒÍ⁄U÷Ê·— Ævv-wxÆ~wzxz ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ— vxÆ, ‚¢‚Œ ÷flŸ, Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-vvÆÆÆv ŒÍ⁄U÷Ê·— wxÆxy}y}, wxÆxy~vÆ »Ò§ÄÔ‚— wx|~y}y}

November 5, 2008 The Chairman, The Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence, 147, Parliament House, New Delhi Dear Sir,

I would like to suggest certain facts which may after due consideration be incorporated in the final report. 1. The Audio-Video evidence and the transcripts thereof ought to have been considered and accepted by the Committee. If the Committee could accept the CDs and VCDs provided by CNN- IBN, then there is no reason why the VCDs and audio-visual CDs supplied by Shri Mulayam Singh Yadavji, Shri Laloo Prasad Yadavji and Shri Ram Vilas Paswanji ought not to have been considered and given due weightage. The Committee is therefore requested to incorporate the transcripts of the said VCDs and the audio-visual CDs in the Report. 2. Discrepancy in car license plates: at one place the witnesses mention one set of number and at others, a different set of numbers. This would lead to the inescapable conclusion that the change in details given regarding the car registration number was an after-thought and made with criminal and malafide motives. In fact there was no hurried action taken by the three BJP MPs in question occasioning any error/ discrepancy in the details given by them to the Speaker as there was a four days gap between the incident and the preferring of the complaint and later they gave another no. on 1st of August almost 10 days after the alleged incident. 3. That when Faggan Singh Kulaste was not only heard but also seen clearly making a statement that only “Arunji” (Arun Jaitley) could disclose the source of the money, then there is not an iota of doubt as to the fact situation and there is no confusion at all. 4. It may also be pertinent to note that in the aforementioned VCD, Faggan Singh Kulaste also clearly mentions that he has never met Amar Singh. This goes to demonstrate beyond a pale of doubt that the statements made by all the witnesses examined by the Committee (save the statements and evidence and statement of Shri Rewati Raman Singh and Sanjeev Saxena) are fraught with discrepancies and no reliance could be placed on the same. As regards the statements

61 of Shri Rewati Raman Singh and Sanjeev Saxena, it may be apposite to mention that there are no contradictions whatsoever in their statements. 5. It may also be pertinent to mention that even CNN-IBN has contradicted the statements made by the BJP MPs which also go to clearly establish that the statements of Faggan Singh Kulaste, Ashok Argal and Mahabir Singh Bhagora are patently false and no reliance ought to be placed on the same. 6. In addition, it may be pertinent to mention that the VCD showing Suhel Hindustani that he couldn’t sleep because he had to depose before the Committee where he proposed to utter lies ought to have been considered. Further, there is also a VCD of Sudhindra Kulkarni wherein he is clearly shown to be paying money to Hasmat in order to influence him into making false statements against Shri Amar Singhji. 7. Para 108 of the Report as also the portions of the Report containing remarks against Sanjeev Saxena ought to be deleted in light of the fact that he truly and honestly deposed before the Committee regarding the facts and had not concealed any thing therefrom. Also, from his deposition and the statements recorded by the Committee, it is clearly borne ought that he was an unwitting party to the whole proceedings and as such the said para ought to be deleted. 8. As regards para 111, it is our clear view that no investigation by any external investigative agency ought to be sought for or ordered as to do so would be virtually undermining the authority of the Parliament. The Parliament is fully empowered to deal with any exigencies as may arise. 9. Paras (xiv) and (xv) at pages 113-114 regarding remarks made against Sanjeev Saxena ought to be deleted in toto on the basis of what is mentioned above. There are no discrepancies, contradictions or falsehoods in Sanjeev Saxena’s deposition. The Committee erred in not accepting the same and in brushing aside the same as being fraught with contradictions. 10. Para 168 ought to be deleted as the Parliament is sufficiently empowered to inquire into and take due action as regards the said matter. The Parliament ought not to abdicate what would be its inherent power to an external investigative agency. 11. Also, in light of the fact that the Committee has not found any basis to inquire into the allegations against Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmad Patel, there is no reason for the recommendations made in para 169 being made. As such, para 169 ought to be deleted as well. Instead, the direction ought to be made that in light of the fact that the very basis of the entire investigation being the so-called “sting operation” by CNN-IBN which was admittedly incomplete and inconclusive and also in light of the fact that the statements made by the BJP members were themselves contradicted by the statements of the CNN-IBN team, if at all any violations have been done, then it has been undoubtedly done by and at the behest of Suhail Hindustani, Sudhindra Kulkarni, some other BJP leaders and the three BJP MPs in question. With regards,

Yours sincerely Sd/- (RAM GOPAL YADAV)

62 Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ {, «UÊ. Á’‡Êê’⁄U ŒÊ‚ ◊ʪ¸, ‚¢‚Œ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-vvÆÆÆv VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA 6, Dr. Bishamber Dass Marg M.P. New Delhi-110 001 (India) Dy. Leader & Spokesman Tel.: 23715051, 23715070 B.J.P. Parliamentary Party (Lok Sabha) Fax: 91-11-23715045 Chairman Public Accounts Committee (Lok Sabha)

November 05, 2008 To The Chairman, The Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence 147, Parliament House, New Delhi. Sub: Note of dissent Sir, I have perused dispassionately the Report which you are proposing to submit to the hon’ble Speaker allegedly as observation of the Committee constituted by him on July 26, 2008 pursuant to the commitment made by him on July 22, 2008 in the Lok Sabha, and feel constrained to put on record my disagreement with the observations and conclusion made therein, as are highlighted here in below. ** ** ** ** 1. Contrary to the assurance given by hon’ble Speaker in the Lok Sabha on 22nd July, 2008 that “..all possible steps that are required in that connection will be taken by me as a custodian of this House.”. and that “...nobody will be spared if found guilty.” in the process of the inquiry. 2. ** ** ** ** 3. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** 4. Take, for instance the case of Shri Hashmat Ali, the driver of the ZEN car in which two complainant MPs, namely Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste are seen in the tapes to had travelled on 22nd July, 2008 morning to and fro the residence of Shri Amar Singh at 27, Lodhi Estate and, hence, a key witness, who was scheduled to appear before the Committee in its eighth sitting on September 25, 2008, but

**Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91(1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

63 failed to do so. From reports appearing in sections of the electronic media it became apparent that he had been physically prevented from appearing before the Committee in which a design of Shri Amar Singh became conspicuous. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** 5. The case of Shri Sanjeev Saxena, who played the role of emissary of Shri Amar Singh and whom the Committee also have convincingly found to had played the most collusive role (Ref: Para 104 at p/81) and whose testimony, examined in the backdrop of the surrounding circumstances, threw up a suspicious scenario, ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** 6. Although the Inquiry in the complaint had to be largely dependent upon the Tapes delivered by CNN-IBN TV channel for clues, mysteriously you did not find necessary to have the authenticity of the tapes so received from CNN-IBN verified by Forensic test at the very outset. 7. Modern technology has made it possible to keep digital record of the foot steps of each and every mobile phone connection. When a witness says that Shri Ahmed Patel or Shri Amar Singh has been spoken to from his mobile phone or vice-versa, the truth could be easily verified by obtaining from the telephone service providers the call detail records (CDRs) of telephone calls of the given time of the mobile phone towers located in vicinity of the residence/offices of Shri Ahmed Patel or Shri Amar Singh. CDRs give the date and time of origination and termination of calls and also the location of the towers through which they transmitted. Even if the Committee thought itself to be lacking the technical where with alls to understand the significance of CDRs, it should have been incumbent upon it to invite technical experts to explain the same. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** 8. Admittedly, the mysterious young “man-in-yellow shirt”, who is seen in the video tapes to be frequenting in and out of the residence of Shri Amar Singh at 27, Lodhi Estate, and to be carrying the cash-bag and standing close by while the cash was being handed over at the residence of Shri Ashok Argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road on 22nd July, 2008 as a close confidant of Shri Sanjeev Saxena as also the owners of the Cash holds the final clue to the link between Shri Amar Singh and the delivery of the Cash-for-Vote. His identity remained shrouded before the Committee as Shri Sanjeev Saxena with whom the man-in-yellow shirt had come during the cash-delivery refused to disclose his identity and as you decided against seeking help of Delhi Police for tracing him out. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** 9. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91(1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

64 …If investigation by any specialised investigating agency against Shri Sanjeev Saxena, as is recommended in the Report, establishes that he came with the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, it would contradict the exoneration of Shri Amar Singh even before the investigation into Shri Sanjeev Saxena is concluded. ** ** ** ** 10. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** …No Democracy can claim to be thriving and at the same time sticking to half century-old Convention during a testing situation like this. The Constitution of India itself has been amended more than hundred times in the last six decades in order to meet with the changing need of the society. Then why can’t the convention dealing with appearance of a MP of one House before the Inquiry Committee of the other House of Parliament should not be sought to be revised especially when the very credibility of Parliament itself among the people are facing danger of demanding due to the cash-for-vote episode of 22nd July, 2008. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** I am compelled to refrain myself from becoming a party to the same by appending my signature to the Report. I, therefore, distance myself from the Report and would request you to attach my enclosed detailed para-wise comments on the Report along with this letter of mine as my ‘Note of Dissent’ to the Report.

Yours faithfully, Sd/- (V. K. MALHOTRA) Encl: (1) Para-wise comments on the Report; (2) A copy of the letter dated 19.8.08 of Shri Hashmat Ali; (3) A copy of the complaint date 26.9.08 filed by Shri Hashmat Ali with the Commissioner of Police, Delhi.

**Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91(1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

65 „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë ∑§ ∞ø-yww, ªÊ¢fl ◊¢«UÙ‹Ë ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-~x ‚flÊ ◊¥, ◊ÊŸŸËÿ •äÿˇÊ ¡Ë ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê, Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë

Áfl·ÿ— ww ¡È‹Ê߸ wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ ¬ŒÊ¸»§Ê‡Ê Á∑§∞ ª∞ ““flÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§ ’Œ‹ ¬Ò‚Ê”” ∑§Ê¢«U ◊¥ ªflÊ„UË

◊„UÙŒÿ, ◊Ò¥ ªÊÁ¡ÿÊ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ∞∑§ ‚Ê◊ÊÁ¡∑§ •ı⁄U ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁÃ∑§ ∑§Êÿ¸∑§ûÊʸ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ ‚÷Ë ¡ÊÁÃÿÙ¥ •ı⁄ U‚◊ÈŒÊÿÙ¥ ∑§ ª⁄UË’ ‹ÙªÙ¥ πÊ‚∑§⁄U ’ëÔøÙ¥ ÃÕÊ ’Í…∏U ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ◊ŒŒ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ◊¥ ⁄U„UÃÊ „Í¢– ◊Ò¥ “•Áπ‹ ÷Ê⁄UÃËÿ ◊ÊŸfl •Áœ∑§Ê⁄U ‚Á◊ÁÔ (v{y, ◊Ê‹ËflÊ«∏UË, ªÊÁ¡ÿÊ’ÊŒ) ∑§Ê ⁄UÊcÔ≈˛UËÿ ‚Áøfl ÷Ë „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ üÊË ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ê ŒÙSà „Í¢U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ wv ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª {.xÆ ’¡ ◊Ȥʂ ∞∑§ ¡M§⁄UË ∑§Ê◊ ∑§ Á‹∞ ◊⁄UË ∑§Ê⁄U ‹ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ– ¡’ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬Í¿UÊ ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U Áfl‡ÔflÊ‚ ◊à ‚ ‚¢’¢ÁœÃ ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU Á¡‚ ÿÍ.¬Ë.∞. ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ù wv-ww ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ „UÊÁ‚‹ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿÍ.¬Ë.∞. ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U Á¡‚ ’„ÈU◊à ¬˝ÊåÔà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •¬ŸË ‚ûÊÊ ∑§Ù ’øÊ∞ ⁄UπŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ë π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅÔà ∑§ ∑§Ê◊ ◊¥ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ◊Ȥʂ ∑§„UÊ ““ß‚ ∑§Ê¢«U ∑§Ê ¬ŒÊ¸»§Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU”” •ı⁄U ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§Ë ’Êà ‚ ‚„U◊à „UÙ ªÿÊ– ©UŸ∑§Ë Ã⁄U„U ◊Ò¥ ÷Ë •◊Á⁄U∑§Ê ∑§ ⁄UÊcÔ≈˛U¬Áà ¡ÊÚ¡¸ ’È‡Ê ∑§Ù ◊È‚‹◊ÊŸÙ¥ ∑§Ê ŒÈ‡Ê◊Ÿ ◊ÊŸÃÊ „Í¢U •ı⁄U ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ¬˝œÊŸ◊¢òÊË «UÊ. ◊Ÿ◊Ù„UŸ Á‚¢„U ÃÕÊ ¡ÊÚ¡¸ ’È‡Ê ∑§ ’Ëø ¬⁄U◊ÊáÊÈ ‚◊¤ÊıÃ ∑§ Áπ‹Ê»§ „Í¢U– wv ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª ⁄UÊà ◊¥ vÆ.ÆÆ ’¡ ◊Ò¥ •¬ŸË ‚»§Œ ⁄¢Uª ∑§Ë ◊ÊM§Áà ¡Ÿ «UË∞‹z‚Ë‚Ë |wv} ‹∑§⁄U ’‹fl¢Ã ⁄UÊÿ ◊„UÃÊ ‹Ÿ ¬„È¢Uø ªÿÊ ¡„UÊ¢ ‚È„ÒU‹ ◊⁄UÊ ß¢Ã¡Ê⁄U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ fl ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ë π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅÔà ∑§Ê¢«U ∑§Ù ©U¡Êª⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÷Ê⁄UÃËÿ ¡ŸÃÊ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ÃËŸ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ Á◊‹∑§⁄U ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ◊Ȥʂ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ‹∑§⁄U •¬Ÿ ¬Ë¿U-¬Ë¿U ‹Ë-◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ ¡„UÊ¢ ©Uã„¥U üÊË •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ‚ Á◊‹ŸÊ ÕÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ¬Ê߸– ◊Ò¥ „UÙ≈U‹ ∑§Ë ‹ÊÚ’Ë ◊¥ „UË ’Ò∆UÊ ⁄U„UÊ •ı⁄U ŒπÊ Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚ ∑§ ∑ȧ¿U ŸÃÊ•Ù¥ ‚ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ŒÙ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UÊ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ◊äÿ⁄UÊÁòÊ ◊¥ ‹ª÷ª vw.xÆ ’¡ ◊Ò¥ ‚È„Ò‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∞∑§ flÁ⁄UcÔ∆U ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ Á‚¢„U ∑§Ù ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U (’‹fl¢Ã ⁄UÊÿ ◊„UÃÊ ‹Ÿ) ªÿÊ– ©Uã„¥U ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ∞∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ¬⁄U ‹ •Ê∞– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë ∑§Ê⁄U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ë¿U-¬Ë¿U ø‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË Á¡‚◊¥ ŒÙ ‹Ùª •ı⁄U ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– •ª‹ ÁŒŸ ww ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª ~.xÆ ’¡ ‚È’„U ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ◊Ȥʂ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ŒÙ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥óüÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •ı⁄U üÊË »§ÇÔªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ëó∑§Ù ‹∑§⁄U ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ÃÕÊ ◊„UÊ‚Áøfl üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ w|, ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ¬⁄U ø‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ •¬ŸË ∑§Ê⁄U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U ⁄UπŸ ∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ– ◊Ò¥ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ù •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ë Á¬¿U‹Ë ‚Ë≈U ¬⁄U ’Ò∆UÊ∑§⁄U y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ‚ ‹∑§⁄U w|, ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ø‹ ¬«∏UÊ– ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ë •ª‹Ë ‚Ë≈U ¬⁄U ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ‚È„ÒU‹ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ–

66 ¡Ò‚ „UË „U◊ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¬„È¢Uø ‚È„ÒU‹ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ ©UÃ⁄U ªÿÊ •ı⁄U ©U‚Ÿ ª≈U ¬⁄U ¡Ê∑§⁄U ªÊ«¸U ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë– ªÊ«¸U Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§Ê⁄U •¢Œ⁄U ¡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ª≈U πÙ‹ ÁŒÿÊ– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚Œ •ı⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ «˛UÊßZª M§◊ ◊¥ ¬„È¢Uø ª∞ •ı⁄U ◊Ò¥ ’Ê„U⁄U „UË •¬ŸË ∑§Ê⁄U ◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ê ߢáÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ‹ªÊ– ‹ª÷ª •Êœ ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§ ’ÊŒ fl üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ’Ê„U⁄U •Ê∞– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ’„ÈUà „UË πÈ‡Ê Õ •ı⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ flʬ‚ ÉÊÈ‚Ÿ ‚ ¬„U‹ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ •ı⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ê ‡ÊÈÁ∑˝§ÿÊ •ŒÊ Á∑§ÿÊ– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§„UÊ ““„U◊Ê⁄UÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ë¿U-¬Ë¿U „UË •Ê ¡Ê∞ªÊ–”” ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ (¡Ù Á»§⁄U ‚ Á¬¿U‹Ë ‚Ë≈UÙ¥ ¬⁄U ’Ò∆U ª∞ Õ) •ı⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ù flÊÁ¬‚ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ¿UÙ«∏U ÁŒÿÊ– ‹ª÷ª vÆ-vz Á◊Ÿ≈U ’ÊŒ ◊Ò¥Ÿ üÊË •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ∞∑§ ‚»§Œ Á¡åÔ‚Ë ÉÊÈ‚Ã „ÈU∞ ŒπË Á¡‚◊¥ ŒÙ ÿÈfl∑§ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë Ÿ ª„U⁄‘U ⁄¢Uª ∑§Ë ŸË‹Ë ≈UË-‡Ê≈¸U ¬„UŸ ⁄UπË ÕË •ı⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë ¬Ë‹ ⁄¢Uª ∑§Ë ∑§◊Ë¡ ¬„UŸ „ÈU∞ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ Á∑§ fl ∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª Õ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ß‚ S≈U≈U◊¥≈U ◊¥ ¡Ù ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË „ÒU, fl„U ‚÷Ë ‚ø „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§ ‚◊ˇÊ ÃÕÊ •Ê¬∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ ÁŸÿÈÄÔà ¡Ê¢ø ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÊÁ¡⁄U „UÙŸ ∑§Ê ßë¿ÈU∑§ „Í¢U–

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Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë wz Á‚Ãê’⁄U, wÆÆ} ‚flÊ ◊¥, ÕÊŸÊäÿˇÊ ◊„UÙŒÿ, ÃȪ‹∑§ ◊ʪ¸, Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë

◊Ò¥ „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë ¬ÈòÊ ‡Êı∑§Ã •‹Ë ÁŸflÊ‚Ë π‚⁄UÊ Ÿ¢. zyv ªÊ¢fl-◊¢«UÙ‹Ë, ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-~x ’ÿÊŸ ∑§⁄UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ww.|.wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ „ÈU∞ ŸÙ≈U ∑§ ’Œ‹ flÙ≈U ∑§Ê¢«U ◊¥ ‚¢‚Œ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ø‹ ⁄U„U ∑§‚ ◊¥ ◊Ò¥ ∞∑§ ◊ÈÅÿ ªflÊ„U „Í¢U– •Ê¡ ◊ȤÊ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’ÿÊŸ ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U •ı⁄U ©UŸ∑§ •ÊŒÁ◊ÿÙ¥ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ‚È’„U •¬„U⁄UáÊ ∑§⁄U Á‹ÿÊ, ◊ȤÊ ¡ÊŸ ‚ ◊Ê⁄UŸ ∑§Ë œ◊∑§Ë ŒË, •ı⁄U ◊È¤Ê ¬⁄U é‹Ò∑§◊Á‹¢ª ∑§Ê ¤ÊÍ∆UÊ ßÀ¡Ê◊ ‹ªÊÿÊ–

◊Ò¥ ‚È„Ò‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ê Á◊òÊ •ı⁄U ‚„UÿÙªË „Í¢U– ŸÙ≈U ∑§ ’Œ‹ flÙ≈U ∑§Ê¢«U ∑§Ù ∞Ä‚¬Ù¡ ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ê ‚ÊÕ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– wv.|.wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ⁄UÊà ∑§⁄UË’ vv-vw ’¡ ∑§ ∑§⁄UË’ w|, ’‹fl¢Ã ⁄UÊÿ ◊„UÃÊ ‹Ÿ ◊¥ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ‹∑§⁄U ◊⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ø‹ ⁄U„U Õ, ◊Ò¥ ©Uã„¥U ‹∑§⁄U y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡ ‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøÊ– fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ¬Ò‚ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚ıŒ ’Ê¡Ë „ÈU߸, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë •ı⁄U ÖÿÊŒÊ ⁄UÊà „UÙŸ ∑§Ë fl¡„U ‚ ∑§‹ ‚È’„U ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„U ∑§⁄U ø‹ ª∞– ◊Ò¥ ww.|.wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ‚È’„U ∑§⁄UË’ vÆ-vv ’¡ ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë fl ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË »§ÇÔªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ‚ÊÕ ‹∑§⁄U ‚È„Ò‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ‚ ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ w|, ‹ÙŒË ßS≈U≈U ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøÊ– ◊Ò¥ «˛UÊ߸Áfl¢ª ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ‚È„ÒU‹ ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ, •Êª ∑§Ë ‚Ë≈U ¬⁄U ’Ò∆UÊ ÕÊ– ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ¬Ë¿U ∑§Ë ‚Ë≈U ¬⁄U ’Ò∆U Õ– ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁcÔ≈U ∑§⁄UÃ „ÈU∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ v~ •ªSÃ, wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê •äÿˇÊ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ ¬òÊ ÷Ë Á‹πÊ ÕÊ Á¡‚∑§Ë ∑§Ê¬Ë ◊Ò¥ ß‚ πà ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¡Ù«∏U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U–

üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ‚ıŒÊ Ãÿ „ÈU•Ê– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „UË ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ù ¬Ò‚ ŒŸ ‹ª ÃÙ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ¬Ò‚Ê „U◊ y, •‡ÊÙ∑§ ⁄UÙ«U ¬⁄U ‹¥ª– „U◊ ‹Ùª fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ◊⁄‘U „UË ∑§Ê⁄U ◊¥ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ¬⁄U •Ê ªÿ– ◊Ò¥ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ¿UÙ«∏U∑§⁄U •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹Ê ªÿÊ–

◊ȤÊ ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ë.∞. ÃL§Ÿ ‡Ê◊ʸ ∑§ ∑§ß¸ ÁŒŸ ‚ »§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„U Õ– ∑§‹ ⁄UÊà wy.~.wÆÆ} vÆ ’¡ ÷Ë »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ¡Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ¬ˇÊ ◊¥ ’ÿÊŸ ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‹Ê‹ø Œ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– wy.~.wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ¬ÎâÔflË⁄UÊ¡ ⁄UÙ«U ‚ ‹ı≈UÃ „ÈU∞ ⁄UÙ¡Ê πÙ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ŸM§‹Ê¡ ⁄‘US≈Ù⁄‘¥U≈U ¬˝ËÃÁfl„UÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ªÿÊ, ‡ÊÊ◊ { ‚ ‚Ê…∏U ¿U— ∑§ ’Ëø ◊¥ ⁄U◊‡Ê ŸÊ◊ ∑§Ê √ÿÁÄÔà ◊⁄UÊ ¬Ë¿UÊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ „ÈU•Ê ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ¬„È¢UøÊ •ı⁄U ‹Ê‹ø fl Œ’Êfl ŒŸ ‹ªÊ– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¡ ÿÊÁŸ wz.~.wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ‚È’„U |.xÆ ’¡ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ø‹Ê ÃÙ } ’¡ Á»§⁄U ◊ȤÊ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ◊Ò¥Ÿ Á◊‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ◊ŸÊ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ÃଇÔøÊÃÔ˜ Á»§⁄U } ’¡∑§⁄U vz Á◊Ÿ≈U ¬⁄U Á»§⁄U »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ◊Ò¥Ÿ Á»§⁄U Á◊‹Ÿ ‚ ◊ŸÊ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ–

68 ¡’ ◊Ò¥ ⁄UÊ¡SÕÊŸ ÷flŸ ¬ÎâÔflË⁄UÊ¡ ⁄UÙ«U ¬⁄U ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ Á‚ª⁄‘U≈U ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ πÊŸ ◊ÊÁ∑¸§≈U ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ ◊È«∏U ªÿÊ ÃÕÊ πÊŸ ◊ÊÁ∑¸§≈U ◊¥ ◊Ò¥Ÿ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ¬ÊÁ∑Z§ª ∑§Ë Ã÷Ë ◊⁄UÊ ¬Ë¿UÊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„Ë ≈UÙÿ≈UÊ ∑§⁄UÙ‹Ê ∑§Ê⁄U ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ •Ê∑§⁄U L§∑§Ë ©U‚◊¥ ÃL§Ÿ ‡Ê◊ʸ fl ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ ◊Ù≈UÊ ∞fl¢ ‚Ê¢fl‹Ê •ÊŒ◊Ë Á¡‚∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ⁄U◊‡Ê „ÒU– ◊⁄‘U ‚ •Ê∑§⁄U ∑§„UŸ ‹ª ““„U‡Ê◊à ÷Ê߸ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU–”” ““◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ’Ù‹Ù”” ÃÙ ÃL§Ÿ ‡Ê◊ʸ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ŒÙ Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ’Ò∆UÙ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ’Ò∆U ªÿÊ– ⁄U◊‡Ê ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ •Ê∑§⁄U ’Ò∆U ªÿÊ– ’Ò∆UÃ „UË ⁄U◊‡Ê Ÿ ◊⁄‘U ™§¬⁄U Á⁄UflÊÀfl⁄U ‚≈UÊ ŒË fl ∑§„UŸ ‹ª •ª⁄U ∑ȧ¿U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë ÃÙ •ë¿UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªÊ ‡Ê⁄UÊ»§Ã ‚ ’Ò∆U ⁄U„UÙ– ÃL§Ÿ ‡Ê◊ʸ ªÊ«∏UË ø‹Ê∑§⁄U ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ w|, ‹ÙŒË ßS≈U≈U ¬⁄U ‹ ª∞ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ •ÊŒÁ◊ÿÙ¥ Ÿ ◊⁄UË Ã‹Ê‡ÊË ‹Ë fl ◊⁄UÊ ◊Ù’Êß‹ Á¡‚∑§Ê Ÿ¢. ~}|xÆz{z{v „ÒU ¿UËŸ Á‹ÿÊ •ı⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U Ÿ ◊⁄‘U ‚ ªÊ‹Ë-ª‹ı¡ ∑§Ë ÃÕÊ ◊ȤÊ fl ◊⁄‘U ¬Á⁄UflÊ⁄U ∑§Ù πàÔ◊ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë œ◊∑§Ë ŒË– ◊ȤÊ ÕåÔ¬«∏U ◊Ê⁄UÃ „ÈU∞ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ““•’ ¡Ò‚Ê ◊Ò¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U flÒ‚Ê „UË ’ÿÊŸ Á‹πÙ–”” ◊Ȥʂ ¬Ë¿U ∑§Ë ÃÊ⁄UËπ ◊¥ fl •Êª ∑§Ë ÃÊ⁄UËπ ◊¥ øÊ⁄U •‹ª-•‹ª Ã⁄U„U ∑§ ’ÿÊŸ Á‹πflÊ∞– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊ȤÊ •‹ª ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ’㌠∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄U ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§ ’ÊŒ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ∑§Ë ◊ı¡ÍŒªË ◊¥ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ù ‚ı¥¬ ÁŒÿÊ– ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ◊ȤÊ ÃȪ‹∑§ ⁄UÙ«U ÕÊŸ ‹ ªß¸ fl„UÊ¢ ‚ z Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑˝§Êß◊ ’˝Ê¢ø øÊáÊÄÿ¬È⁄UË ‹ ¡ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ øÊ⁄U ¬¡ ∑§Ë Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà Á‹π∑§⁄U ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ߢS¬ÄÔ≈U⁄U ∑˝§Êß◊ ’˝Ê¢ø üÊË ‚ÃË‡Ê ‡Ê◊ʸ ∑§Ù ŒË– ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ◊⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË ¡Ù πÊŸ ◊ÊÁ∑¸§≈U ◊¥ π«∏UË ÕË, ‡ÊÊ◊ y ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚-¬Ê‚ øÊáÊÄÿ¬È⁄UË ∑˝§Êß◊ ’˝Ê¢ø ◊¥ ‹ •Ê߸– ∑˝§Êß◊ ’˝Ê¢ø flÊ‹Ù¥ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ⁄UÊà ◊¥ } ’¡ ∞∑§ Á¬˝¢≈U«U ∑§Êª¡ ¬⁄U ŒÙ ‚Êߟ ∑§⁄UflÊÿË– ß‚∑§Ë ∑§Ê¬Ë ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒË ªß¸– •ı⁄U ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑§„UÊ •’ ÃÈ◊ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „UÙ ¡’ ¡M§⁄Uà „UÙªË „U◊ ÃÈê„¥U ’È‹Ê ‹¥ª– ◊Ò¥ ¬Í⁄UË Ã⁄U„U ‚ «U⁄UÊ fl •Ê„Uà „Í¢U, •ı⁄U ◊⁄‘U ¡ÊŸ◊Ê‹ ∑§Ê πÃ⁄UÊ „ÒU– ¡Ù flÊ⁄UŒÊà •Ê¡ ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ „ÈU•Ê ©U‚‚ ◊ȤÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∞fl¢ ©UŸ∑§ ‚„UÿÙÁªÿÙ¥, Á¡ã„¥U ◊Ò¥ ¬„UøÊŸ ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U, ‚ ¡ÊŸ◊Ê‹ ∑§Ê πÃ⁄UÊ „ÒU– ◊⁄‘U ™§¬⁄U ŸÊ¡Êÿ¡ Œ’Êfl «UÊ‹∑§⁄U ªflÊ„UË ◊¥ ‚ø ’Êà ’Ù‹Ÿ ‚ ⁄UÙ∑§Ê ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ‚ø ’Ù‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– ߟ •¬⁄UÊÁœÿÙ¥ ¬⁄U ‚ÅÔà ‚ ‚ÅÔà ∑§ÊŸÍŸË ∑§Êÿ¸flÊ„UË ∑§Ë ¡Êÿ •ı⁄U ◊⁄‘U fl ◊⁄‘U ¬Á⁄UflÊ⁄U ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ◊Ê‹ ∑§Ë ⁄UˇÊÊ ∑§Ë ¡Ê∞– ◊Ò¥ ß‚ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ ÿ„U ÷Ë S¬cÔ≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ww.|.wÆÆ} ∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊Ò¥ ‚È„Ò‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‹ªÊÃÊ⁄U ‚¢¬∑¸§ ◊¥ „Í¢U– ‚È„Ò‹ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ‚ Á◊‹flÊÿÊ– ◊Ò¥ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ù •Ÿ∑§ ’Ê⁄U ©UŸ∑§ w{, ÃȪ‹∑§ Á∑˝§‚¥≈U ⁄UÙ«U ÁSÕà •ÊÁ»§‚ ¬⁄U Á◊‹Ê „Í¢U– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ◊⁄‘U ŒÙSà »§⁄U„UÊà πÊŸ (’‚¬Ê ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË ◊È∑§Ë◊ •„U◊Œ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ¬Ë∞) ∑§Ù ÷Ë üÊË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U w{, ÃȪ‹∑§ Á∑˝§‚¥≈U Á◊‹flÊÿÊ– ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë fl ‚È„Ò‹ Ÿ ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U ◊⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ë ◊⁄UêÔ◊à fl ¬≈˛UÙ‹ ∑§ Á‹∞ ◊ȤÊ ¬Ò‚ ÁŒÿ– ß‚ ¬òÊ ◊¥ ÁŒ∞ ª∞ ‚÷Ë ’ÊÃ¥ ◊Ò¥Ÿ •¬ŸË Sflÿ¢ ∑§Ë ßë¿UÊ ‚ Á‹π „Ò¥U Ÿ Á∑§ Á∑§‚Ë Œ’Êfl ◊¥ •Ê∑§⁄U– ß‚∑§Ë ‚àÿÃÊ ∑§Ù ¬˝◊ÊÁáÊà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ÃÕÊ ‹Ê߸ Á«U≈UÄÔ≈U⁄U ≈US≈U ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U „Í¢U– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊⁄UË ◊Ê¢ª „UÙªË Á∑§ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U, üÊË ÃL§Ÿ ‡Ê◊ʸ •ı⁄U ⁄U◊‡Ê ∑§Ê ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ÃÕÊ ‹Ê߸ Á«U≈UÄÔ≈U⁄U ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ ¡Êÿ– •Ê¬∑§Ê ¬˝ÊÕ˸

„U./- („U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë) ¬˝ÁÃÁ‹¬Ë— ¬˝Á·Ã— v. ¬ÈÁ‹‚ •ÊÿÈÄÔÃ, ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë w. ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ◊ÈÅÿ ãÿÊÿʜˇÊ, ‚flÙ¸ëÔø ãÿÊÿÊ‹ÿ, ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë x. ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ◊ÈÅÿ ãÿÊÿʜˇÊ, ©UëÔø ãÿÊÿÊ‹ÿ, ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë y. ◊ÊŸŸËÿ •äÿˇÊ, ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê z. ◊ÊŸŸËÿ øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ, ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ¡Ê¢ø ‚Á◊ÁÃ

69 REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

Appended below are comments on the respective paragraphs of the Report of the Committee on which Prof. V.K. Malhotra, Member of the Committee, differed: Since the first para of the Report ought to pronounce the identity of the Head of the Committee along with brief mention about its purpose, it needs to be reframed as under in accordance with that convention: “I, Shri Kishore Chandra Singh Deo, Chairman of the Committee to inquire into the joint complaint dated 25th July, 2008 made by three Members of Lok Sabha, namely Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, alleging offer of money made to them in connection with voting on the motion of confidence in the Lok Sabha during July 21 and 22, 2008, having been authorised by the Committee to submit the Report on their behalf, present this Report to the hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha.” Para 10. Although Shri Hashmat Ali, driver of the ZEN car in which two MPs, namely Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste had allegedly travelled on 22nd July, 2008 morning to and from the residence of Shri Amar Singh at 27, Lodhi Estate and, hence, a key witness, was scheduled to appear before the Committee in its eighth sitting on September 25, 2008, he failed to do so. From reports appearing in a section of the electronic media it became apparent that he had been physically prevented from appearing before the Committee in which a design of Shri Amar Singh became conspicuous. The Chairman, however, received on 25th September, 2008 a written statement dated 19.8.08 from Shri Hashmat Ali stating, inter alia, that he drove the two MPs—Shri Argal and Shri Faggan Singh—along with Sohail Hindustani in his car to the residence of Shri Amar Singh on 22.7.2008, but decided to ignore its contents. The letter dated 19.8.08 of Shri Hashmat Ali addressed to the Speaker, Lok Sabha, and delivered to the Chairman of the Committee on 26.9.08 and also his complaint dated 26th September, 2008, lodged with the Delhi Police Commissioner with copy endorsed to the Chairman of this Committee are attached herewith as Annexures I & II respectively. Para 19 (at p/11): The direction of hon’ble Speaker dated 26th July, 2008, constituting the Inquiry Committee be reproduced together with its terms of reference assigned therein. A copy of the original direction dated 26th July, 2008 be annexed as Schedule to the Report. VI. Findings and Conclusions: Findings Para 75 (at p/59): It was under these circumstances that the Committee sought the comments of Shri A.B. Bardhan in the matter. He obliged by submitting his written response vide letter dated 19th August, 2008, addressed to the Secretary-General of Lok Sabha stating as under:— Quote: “First of all, I should like to state that I have nothing to do either with the three MPs who have made the complaint, nor with the ‘sting operation’ taken by the CNN-IBN. I am in no way connected with, nor concerned in the entire episode under inquiry by the Committee.

70 It appears from your letter that the three MPs, as well as Shri Rajdeep Sardesai of the CNN- IBN have dragged my name and referred to the speech I am supposed to have made on 14 July in a public meeting in Delhi. The action of the 3 MPs and of the CNN-IBN is a result of their own decisions, and reference to any speech of mine is only incidental, and an afterthought to explain their own decision in the matter. They required no impulse from my side. It is true, I had referred in my speech on July 14, to the unethical manoeuvres and operations by the ruling party, through allurements, intimidation, unimaginably huge amounts of money, and other foul means to suborn the royalty and integrity of a number of MPs and convert a minority into a majority and thus win the trust vote. I gave vent to my anguish at this unprecedented horse-trading. I referred to an earlier incident way back in 1993 where 50 lakhs each had been paid to a number of MPs. With a much larger stage this time, and with the tremendous price rise and inflation between then and now, the figure of money being paid had gone up to several crores. I mentioned the figure of 25 crore only to emphasize the enormity of this attack and the subversion of parliamentary system.” (emphasis added) Unquote Para 76 (at p/60): While the Committee do appreciate Shri Bardhan’s prompt and candid response in this regard, the Committee also take note of the fact that Shri A.B. Bardhan, a senior leader of the having been thickly involved into the political developments in the capital related to withdrawal on 8th July, 2008 support by the Left Front to the UPA, in particular, which culminated into the arousal of the necessity for the UPA Government to go for “vote of confidence” in the Lok Sabha, in his response to the Committee re-affirmed his personal knowledge about the preparation of ‘horse trading’ on opposition MPs as he stated in his letter “...the unethical manoeuvres and operations by the ruling party, through allurements, intimidation, unimaginably huge amounts of money and other foul means to suborn the loyalty and integrity of a number of MPs”. While the Committee share the anguish of a veteran leader like Shri Bardhan and has examined the entire episode in the light of the concerns expressed by him with a view to establishing the truth of this scandal, the Committee also took note of the fact that it was Shri Bardhan’s public expression of anguish at the atmosphere threatening the health of Parliamentary democracy in India that drove the authorities of CNN-IBN television channel to venture investigation obviously with a view bring the situation under greater public focus as were apparent in the statement made by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, the Chief Editor of the TV channel in his deposition before the Committee that “... Actually on the 14th of July, Mr. A.B. Bardhan, the General-Secretary and senior leader of CPI made an accusation that Rs. 25 crore is what MPs are being bought at. At that time I asked Shri Siddhartha Gautam who is our special investigation Reporter why does he not go and find out from MPs. He met MPs for seven days. He continuously met different Party people and also met Independent MPs to try and get some information. So, this is not as if the sting operation was the only thing we were doing. We had spoken to other independent MPs. We spoke to Congress and BJP to get some information. It is in the course of that exercise that our sources in the BJP said finally on 21st that they could provide us direct evidence and that is what led us to accompany these MPs. These MPs for us were only sources. They are not collaborators”.

71 Para 77 (at p/60-61): The observation about the cross-voting on the ‘Confidence Motion’ is irrelevant and outside the mandate of the Committee. Neither have the Committee called those who indulged in cross-voting to depose. Hence, this unnecessary presumptions and largely hypothetical observation be deleted altogether. Para 79 (at p/65): Since the tapes received from Ms. Uma Bharati S/Shri Lalu Yadav, Ramvilas Paswan and Amar Singh found to be post-dated implying that they were fabricated with a motive to derail the “Inquiry” by the Lok Sabha Committee, either they need not find a place in the Report or, if it is mentioned, the perpetrators of the derailment design must be censured by the Committee as under: “Since the submission of these post-dated tapes have proved to be mischievous endeavours by people interested in distracting the Committee from its ‘Inquiry’ as a diversionary tactic, obviously, in an attempt to protect those named in the Complaint dated 25th July, 2008, the Committee censures those persons who are found to have indulged in such mischief, especially because some of them are holding high office of Ministers in the Union Cabinet. Indeed, submission of these false tapes is a vital clue to prove inter alia the bonafide of the assertion made by Shri A.B. Bardhan in his public speech on 14th July, 2008 about the unethical manoeuvres and operations by the ruling party.” Para 80 (at p/67): The Committee needs to record appropriate justification with regard to its enquiring with the Ministry of Finance only about the records of cash withdrawals from the respective Banks on the basis of “Series” details on the Currency Notes knowing fully that no such records are maintained by the Banks, instead of asking for details of accounts records of the “high value withdrawals” from these banks pertaining to the relevant period which only could have led to establish the identity of the persons involved! Para 82 (at p/69): The statement of Shri Rewati Raman Singh alleging deployment of Madhya Pradesh Police in Delhi for security of complainant Shri Ashok Argal etc. have no relevance with the main complaint and events that unraveled. The statement of Shri Rewati Raman Singh in this regard in his evidence before the Committee seems to be to confuse its inquiry. Therefore, it need not find a place in the Report due to lack of relevance. Para 85 (at p/71): Be deleted being expression of aversion to cause appearance of two members of Rajya Sabha, namely Shri Ahmed Patel and Shri Amar Singh. Under the alibi of the so-called “we established position as laid down in the Practice and Procedure of Parliament by MN Kaul & S.L. Shakdher that ‘Neither House of Parliament can claim or exercise any authority over a member of the other House, if adopted, would prove to be self-defeating as far as the very objective and purpose behind constitution of this Enquiry Committee of Lok Sabha is concerned. Considering the unprecedented nature of the situation which emerged on 22 July, 2008 posing one of the gravest ever thereat to the very credibility of Parliament in India and considering that the entire need of the present enquiry hinged on the complaint against the said two Rajya Sabha members, it should have been imperative to rely on a pragmatic approach instead of taking recourse to the half-century-old Sixth Report of the Committee of Privileges (2nd Lok Sabha) dated 12th December, 1958, which, after all, could not have dwelt upon a situation like the one Lok Sabha witnessed on July 22, 2008. Moreover, even from the excerpts of the 1958 Report as quoted in Para 84 (at p/71) does not imply that a member from other House is immune to Enquiry when constituted by one House of Parliament as the Report said “...the House should not permit any one of its Members to give evidence before the other House of Parliament or a Committee

72 thereof or before a House of State legislature or a Committee thereof, without a request desiring his attendance and without the consent of the Member whose attendance is required...no Member of the House should give evidence before the other House or Committee... without the leave of the House being first obtained...” Para 86 (at p/72): “Taking into account the extant provision in the rules and procedures of Lok Sabha and the report of the Committee of Privileges dated 12th December, 1958, the Committee propose to make a submission to the hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha to make an appropriate request to the hon’ble Chairman, Rajya Sabha, to facilitate grant of leave of that House to Shri Ahmed Patel and Shri Amar Singh to enable the Ethics to cause their appearance for examination of the complaint against them.” Para 89 (at p/74) ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** The above mentioned excerpts seem essential to be dwelt upon here because of the vital clue to the mystery of alleged involvement of Shri Ahmed Patel in the episode in absentia inherent into it to a large extent, which does not justify hastening to absolve Shri Ahmed Patel of the role he was alleged to had played in the episode, outrightly. After all the Committee is constrained to examine the telephone records of the conversations alleged to had taken place on July 21, 2008 between the members of the whistle-blower team and others e.g., Lovely Singh etc. on the relevant date and time. For examination of the veracity of these statements of the witnesses and also of the complainants relating to their being in touch with Shri Ahmed Patel over telephone, it was necessary to trace the digital foot steps i.e., the call detail records (CDRs) of the respective mobile/land line telephones which should have been available from telephone service providers from their mobile phone towers for which authorities of the service providers should have been requested to appear before the Committee and adduce evidence. ** ** ** ** Para 91 (at p/75): The Committee consider it appropriate to dwell here on the issue as to why did the whistle-blower team did not choose to record the conversation which took place between Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste and Shri Amar Singh on 22nd July, 08 at the latter residence at 27, Lodhi Estate, particularly when they made such arrangement for the meeting with Shri Ahmad Patel the previous evening albeit it did not take place, and find reply to it in the understandable apprehensions expressed by the complaints/witnesses that Shri Amar Singh was

**Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91 (1) of the Directions by the Speaker. 73 suspected to have installed telecom jamming gadgets at his residence as a security measure and could have also installed devices capable of detecting bugging/recording devices if fitted in person to Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste during their visit to 27, Lodhi Estate on July 22, 2008 morning.” Para 92 (at p/76): The concluding part of the para “...The Committee wish...contradictory position.” be omitted. Para 93 (at p/76) ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Para 98-100 (at p/79-80): Be deleted. Para 101 (at p/80): Based on the audio/video evidence of conversation between Shri Rewati Raman Singh and the complainant BJP MPs, considering the unusual hour at night when Shri Rewati Raman Singh choose to visit the residence of Shri Argal, who was driven in the car by his son to the premises at 4, Ferozeshah Road, on the intervening night of July 21 & 22 2008. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** On the one hand a case has been made out to suggest that Shri Ashok Argal and other BJP MPs were seeking help of Shri Rewati Raman Singh about assurance of ticket from the Samajwadi Party implying that the three BJP MPs were favour seekers and, if so, the obligation to visit the designated person who would dispose off such favour to them at any hour and at any corner of the work should have rested with these favour seekers, on the other hand the facilitator of favour disbursal i.e., Shri Rewati Raman Singh was seen visiting the favour seekers at wee hour to carry out “political confabulations” and that too after ascertaining that the requisite numbers needed to save the Government during voting next morning had already been managed. Considering this backdrop, the observations and the conclusions regarding the role played by Shri Rewati Raman Singh in the cash-for-vote episode do not appear to be sound. Therefore, the contents of Para 101 need to be reframed to express the following:— “Taking into consideration the totality of facts and circumstances of the matter, particularly Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s admission (as alluded to in Para 96) that “the requisite numbers were made up”, the sequence of events starting from his late-night visit on July 21, 2008 to Shri Ashok Argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road and visit of the whistle blowers next morning to Shri Amar Singh’s residence etc., reasonably prove involvement of Shri Rewati Raman Singh as facilitator in the cash-for-vote deal.” Para 102 (at p/80): Be deleted. Para 103 (at p/81): The observation in this paragraph is irrelevant as it comprises of hypothetical presumptions. Hence, to be omitted. Para 106 (at p82-84): In order to make the observation complete, the following may be inserted at the 6th line at page 84 after “Suhail Hindustani” and before “Surprisingly...” “In the visuals in tape 3, when the Zen car was approaching the premises at 27, Lodhi Estate, the “man in yellow shirt” was seen talking to uniformed guards of Shri Amar Singh posted at the gate and he was also called inside the gate of 27, Lodhi Estate just before

**Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91 (1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

74 the Zen car was seen leaving on 22 July, 08. the same man in yellow shirt re-emerged on the tape, in the company of Sanjeev Saxena, carrying the bag of currency notes into the residence of Shri Argal. Hence, the Committee has to conclude that this ‘man-in-yellow shirt’ was intimately linked to Shri Amar Singh.” Para 107 (at p/84-85): The concluding part of the paragraph be reframed as under: “As per the remit of the Committee, the matter of inquiry is whether Shri Sanjeev Saxena delivered the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh; was there any proof of Shri Amar Singh having sent Shri Sanjeev Saxena with money at Shri Argal’s house? In quest of truth, the Committee relied on the sequence of events, audio-visual records thereof, besides taking cognizance of circumstantial and various material evidences, and came to the conclusion that a close relationship existed between Shri Amar Singh, Shri Sanjeev Saxena and the man in yellow shirt certainly exist.” Para 111 (at p/87): The Committee, taking into view the entire evidences, including the CDs and material evidences subsequently received from the complainants especially about the intimate link between Shri Sanjeev Saxena and Shri Amar Singh, is keen to take the view that Shri Sanjeev Saxena did try to confuse the Committee by concealing the truth and also by resorting to untruth. Since the Committee do not have the wherewithal of an investigating agency, it should be in fitness of things if the matter is entrusted to an independent agency like CBI for conducting a thorough probe:— Paras 113-114 (at p/89): Since “clinching evidences” of acts of such clandestine nature is not made available by its perpetrators easily even to be accessed by professional investigating agencies, what to speak of any Parliamentary Inquiry Committee bereft of any technical expertise, ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Therefore, the observation in the concluding part of Para 114 (at p/90) be substituted with the following: “Although an audio recording of the conversations Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste alleged to have had with Shri Amar Singh on 22 July, 2008 at the latter’s residence at 27, Lodhi Estate, could have provided clinching proof to the Committee to come to its conclusion about the veracity of the complaint dated 25th July, 2008, the Committee cannot remain oblivious to the very strong circumstantial evidences brought before it and also secured by it from examination of various witnesses.” Para 115 (at p/90): The fact that the car had tinted glasses is of no significance at all to establish the journey of the complainant MPs to Shri Amar Singh’s residence. The Committee has taken into account the independent affirmations in this regard by: (1) The complainants themselves; (2) Suhail Hindustani, who can be seen on the tape to be sitting on front seat of the car; and (3) Hashmat Ali, the owner and driver of the car, who has made a written submission dated 19.8.08 in this respect to the Chairman of the Committee. Indeed, the complainant MPs journey to Shri Amar Singh’s house is also circumstantially established by the fact that Shri Suhail Hindustani, the facilitator of the whistle-blowing operation,

**Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91 (1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

75 is also seen in the next tape, along with the two MPs, in Shri Argal’s house where Shri Sanjeev Saxena, accompanied by his companion in yellow shirt (seen outside Shri Amar Singh’s house) delivered the money to the MPs. The Committee has also taken into account the fact the CNN-IBN tape showing the entry of the car into Shri Amar Singh’s residence has been cut and joined in such a manner that the persons sitting in the rear seats cannot be seen. Para 119 (at p/92): ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Since the Committee has been provided with sufficient credible proof and material evidences about existence of intimate and clear link between Shri Amar Singh and Shri Sanjeev Saxena at the personal level, they need to be treated as such implying what had been stated in the complaint dated 25th July, 2008 by the MPs to be true. The contents of Para 119 and 120 need to be reframed to record these realities. Para 122 (at p/94): Be deleted as the observation is uncalled for. The Committee have been given adequate proof which substantially established the veracity of the complaint made by the three MPs of Lok Sabha to the hon’ble Speaker. Para 123 (at p/94): ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** The foundation of the complaint that the inducement in the form of cash delivered by Shri Sanjeev Saxena as close confidant of Shri Amar Singh on 22 July, 2008 at the residence of Shri Argal as token consideration for the three BJP MPs for abstaining from voting in the Confidence Motion would remain unaddressed by the Committee if such a clean chit is granted to Shri Amar Singh absolving him of any involvement in disregard to the facts and circumstances of the case. These facts are: (1) The conclusion that Sanjeev Saxena was working for, and acting on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, is borne out by (a) As late as on 20th July, 2008, he sent SMS invitations to members of the press about the Press Conference of Shri Amar Singh scheduled for that day; (b) He used to give Shri Amar Singh’s residence as his office address, including in letters seeking favours for himself; (c) As earlier mentioned in the report, the young man in yellow shirt, who is seen twice on tape outside Shri Amar Singh’s residence, can also be seen on tape accompanying Sanjeev Saxena into Shri Argal’s house carrying the money bag; (d) On July 22, when Sanjeev Saxena brought the money to Shri Argal’s house to be given to the MPs, he can be seen on tape to be making telephone calls from his mobile to Shri Amar Singh’s residence. The fact that he was speaking to Shri Amar Singh is established by the transcript of the taped conversations between him and the MPs, and further substantiated by the Call Details Records (CDRs) of his mobile; (e) Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile calls from Shri Argal’ house at Ferozeshah Road to Shri Amar Singh’s house at Lodhi Estate can be established by the tower records of the mobile companies; (f) Sanjeev Saxena’s

**Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91(1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

76 highly unsatisfactory deposition before the Committee, which made several members of the Committee to demand a narco test on him. (2) The BJP MP’s visit to Shri Amar Singh’s residence before the trust vote was facilitated by Shri Rewati Raman Singh, a senior leader of the Samajwadi Party. (3) The submission of post-dated and hence fraudulent tapes on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, to prove that Sanjeev Saxena was not acting at his behest. Indeed, after 22nd July Sanjeev Saxena was unavailable to anybody, including his friends in the media, except to Shri Amar Singh for recording the fraudulent tape; Therefore, on the basis of all the evidence that has come to light, the Committee should come to one and only one conclusion: namely, that Sanjeev Saxena delivered the money to the BJP MPs on behalf of Shri Amar Singh. Paras 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, and 134 (at p/98-101): Be deleted. Issue of influencing members Paras 135-140 (at p/101-105) under the section “Issue of Influencing Members” be deleted. Conclusions: ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** If investigation by an specialised investigating agency against Sanjeev Saxena establishes that he came with the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, it would contradict the exoneration of Shri Amar Singh even before the investigation of Sanjeev Saxena is concluded. Therefore, the Report of the Committee needs incorporate the following in “Conclusions”. Para 141 (at p/105-115): The Committee after taking into account the views, and statement averred and evidences, to the extent adduced by witnesses before it, and the facts and circumstances of the matter under consideration and taking the constraints highlighted in paragraphs 84,85, 86, 93, 110 and 111, in particular, arrive at the following conclusion:— (i) (at p/106): “Shri A.B. Bardhan, a senior Left leader of impecable integrity, who literally set the cat amongst pigeons by saying in a public rally in Delhi on 14th July, 2008 that members were being paid astronomical sums as inducement to save the UPA Government during the Confidence Vote, drew attention to a serious act of political corruption that Parliament was about to witness. The Committee praises Shri Bardhan for sounding the alarm bell.” 141 (ii) (at p/108): The last three paras be deleted and the rest be reframed as follows: “The Committee is convinced that Shri Rewati Raman Singh acted as a facilitator for persuading the BJP MPs to visit Shri Amar Singh’s residence so that they could, for some cash consideration to be decided by Shri Amar Singh, either vote in favour of the Government or abstain from voting in Parliament on the day of Vote of Confidence on 22nd July, 2008.” 141 (iii) (at p/109): The contents from the 5th line be substituted with the following: “There is prima facie suspicion that Shri Ahmed Patel, being an important leader of the ruling party, was working in clse concert with Shri Amar Singh to save the Government, and

**Expunged by Chairman under the provision of Direction 91 (1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

77 was therefore involved in this episode, too. However, the Committee could not examine this aspect of the complaint in the absence of Call Detail records (CDRs) and other records.” 141 (iv) (at p/109) The para be reframed as follows: “Based on all the documentary, oral and circumstantial evidence, the Committee has come to the conclusion that Shri Amar Singh was indeed the principal player in the Cash-for- Votes episode, having sent money to the three BJP MPs through his trusted aide Sanjeev Saxena. He did so in order to induce opposition MPs to vote for the Government (or abstain themselves from voting) so that the Government could be saved in the Motion of Confidence in the Lok Sabha on 22nd July, 08”. 141 (vi)- (xi): Be deleted. 141 (xii): As explained earlier in para 86, the Committee requests Speaker, Lok Sabha to refer the Complaint of three Lok Sabha MPs against Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmed Patel to Chairman Rajya Sabha, so that their involvement in the episode can be probed by the Ethics Committee Rajya Sabha. 141 (xiii): The Committee concludes that there is ample and irrefutable evidence against Sajneev Saxena for his role as the emissary of Shri Amar Singh, who carried and gave the money to the three BJP MPs on behalf of Shri Amar Singh. 141 (xiv): To be deleted. Para 142 (at p/115): Be deleted. Alternative, the suggestion in the letter dated 29 Oct., 08 be implemented. VII. OBSERVATIONS: All the paras 143-167 (at p 116/134) under the section “Observations” to be deleted. Para 167 (at p/134): To be retained. VIII. Recommendations Para 168 (at p/135): Be deleted and be substituted with the following: “The Committee recommends Speaker Lok Sabha to refer the complaint against Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmed Patel to Chairman, Rajya Sabha, so that their involvement in this episode can be probed by the Ethics Committee Rajya Sabha.”

Sd/- (V.K. MALHOTRA) M.P. Member of the Enquiry Committee, Lok Sabha Note: The Para Nos. mentioned above are as per they are listed in the Report. Should they be revised in the final Report before its submission to hon’ble Speaker, the above should also be changed correspondingly.

78 MOHD. SALIM, M.P. Office : 119, Parliament House Annexe, (Lok Sabha) New Delhi-110001 Chairman Phones : 23034129, 23019520 Committee on Urban Development Fax : 23019520 Dy. Leader C.P.I. (M) Residence : 413, V.P. House, New Delhi-110001 Phones: 23320744, 23359427

Dated : 6.11.2008

Dear Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo,

I am enclosing a note containing my comments, reservations and dissention on the Final Draft Report of ‘Committee to enquire into complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on Motion of Confidence’.

Hope you will incorporate/append my dissent note in the Final Report.

With kind regards.

Your sincerely

Sd/- (MOHD. SALIM) Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo, Chairman The Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on Motion of Confidence. 147, Parliament House, New Delhi.

NOTE OF DISSENT

I regret that despite efforts put by all of us to evolve a consensus and arrive at unanimity on such an important issue which has great impact on our Parliamentary system in particular and our people in general who elect the Lok Sabha Members with great expectations, we failed to do so. It is a matter of great concern that money power is playing havoc with the system. The current episode shows how illegal money is being used on an unprecedented scale to vitiate the democratic system. When the fundamental policy issues are being sought to decide through allurement and offers of huge amount, it is not difficult to understand how the common man’s

79 common issues such as poverty, unemployment, price-rise, inflation, illiteracy, better educational facilities are going to be addressed by the Parliament. ** ** ** ** Introduction The offer of money to some Members in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence or the “Trust Vote”, display of wads of currency notes in the floor of the Parliament which were offered to buy votes, allurements and announcement of floor crossing in press conferences on the eve of the Trust vote and finally, large scale defection and cross voting including abstention, were all in full public view and these were seen as a grievous blow to the Parliamentary System of the Country by concerned citizens. It was rightly pointed out by the Hon’ble Speaker immediately after the incident as a very ‘sad day in the history of Parliament.’ What was witnessed by everyone was, however, only the tip of the iceberg. There were dubious activities by wheeler dealers to mobilize votes by any means. The perpertrators of such acts do not generally leave behind the marks of their misdeeds. Therefore, it needs political courage and will to uncover such sordid activities to reach to the bottom of the truth and bring it out before the public. This was needed to save this great institution of Parliament. ** ** ** ** Para 10 is an example. After much persuasion, the Committee agreed towards the end of its proceedings, to hear Shri Hashmat Ali, the driver of the Zen car who was a key link in this episode. ** ** ** ** Findings Para 76—While appreciating Shri Bardhan’s prompt and candid response in this regard the observation made in the Para does not reflect the mood and spirit of the understanding of the Committee. What he had expressed was not only anxiety and anguish, but also contained an element of prognosis, given his vast experience about the politics of the day. ** ** ** ** Para 93,101, 113, 114, 123. ** ** ** ** The Committee was initially not interested in examining the CDR (Call Detail Records) to corroborate the evidence provided in the tapes. The detailed CDR was subsequently made available and a close scrutiny of those calls strengthened the circumstantial evidence against Shri Sanjeev Saxena and established his link to Shri Amar Singh. ** ** ** ** The Committee tried to trace the money trail by inquiring into cash withdrawals from various banks, on the basis of currency note numbers, which in any case are not maintained by the banks. However, the Finance Minister had stated during a discussion on the Banking Transaction Tax, that high volume cash withdrawals can be tracked and traced through the application of the tax.

**Expunged by Chairman under the provisions of Direction 91(1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

80 Conclusion ** ** ** ** It was inter alia mentioned that the Committee was handicapped due to non-availability of the technical and professional expertise in the from of personnel, machine and technology at its disposal. And as we are recommending unanimously that this matter be probed further by an appropriate investigating agency. Recommendations Para 168—It will be improper for the Committee to limit the scope for further investigation and exclude some important names from the ambit of investigation by an appropriate agency. The Committee should not pass any judgment on this matter and must recommend that the entire matter be probed. Para 169—Pending the review and change of the procedure, which has lost its justification in the present circumstances, the Committee should recommend to the Hon’ble Speaker that the cases of Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmed Patel should be referred to Hon’ble Chairman, Rajya Sabha, so that appropriate measures to deal with their cases can be initiated.

Sd/- (MOHD. SALIM) Member, Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on Motion of Confidence.

**Expunged by Chairman under the provisions of Direction 91(1) of the Directions by the Speaker.

81 MINUTES OF SITTINGS MINUTES OF THE FIRST SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Wednesday, the 30 July, 2008 from 1130 hrs. to 1230 hrs. in Room No. ‘53’, Parliament House, New Delhi PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 3. Shri Mohammad Salim 4. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 5. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri P.D.T. Achary — Secretary-General 2. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 3. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 4. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 5. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. At the outset, the Chairman welcomed the members to the first sitting of the newly constituted Committee to inquire into the complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the motion of confidence. The Committee, thereafter, held preliminary deliberations on the matter. During the deliberations, the Committee decided to view the tapes of the sting operation conducted by the CNN-IBN on 4 August, 2008. The Committee also decided to hear the three members who gave complaint in the matter viz Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MPs on 7 August, 2008 and thereafter hear Shri Rajdeep Sardesai of CNN-IBN and other concerned media persons on 11 August, 2008. The Committee noted that Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmad Patel, who have been referred to in the complaint of said three members, are members of Rajya Sabha. In this context the Committee took note of procedure regarding giving of evidence of a member of the House before the other House or a Committee thereof as recommended by Committee of Privileges (2nd Lok Sabha) in their Sixth Report (adopted by the House on 17 December, 1958). (Verbatim record of the proceedings was kept.) (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

85 MINUTES OF THE SECOND SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Monday, the 4 August, 2008 from 1100 hrs. to 1315 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 2. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 3. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 4. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. At the outset, the Committee viewed seven video tapes handed over to the Hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, IBN18 Network containing video and audio footage on the alleged offer of money to some members for abstaining during voting on the motion of confidence on 22 July, 2008. The Chairman, then, apprised the members that 3 more CDs had been delivered to the Hon’ble Speaker’s office. Two CDs were sent by Ms. Uma Bharati and one by Shri Amar Singh. The members desired that copies of those CDs should be made and circulated to them. The Chairman directed the Secretariat to do the needful in this regard. The Committee further deliberated on the matter and decided to call three petitioners viz. Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MPs for oral evidence on 7 August, 2008. The Committee, then, adjourned.

86 MINUTES OF THE THIRD SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Thursday, the 07 August, 2008 from 1100 hrs. to 1330 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri P.D.T. Achary — Secretary-General 2. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 3. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 4. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 5. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary

WITNESSES 1. Shri Ashok Argal, MP 2. Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MP 2. At the outset, the Chairman apprised the members that Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MP who was supposed to appear before the Committee alongwith Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs for oral evidence could not attend the sitting as he underwent an open heart surgery. While initially it was decided to hear Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste MPs separately as per the practice, owing to demand made by some members that the two members be heard together, the Chairman acceded to their requests even though it was not the normal practice. The Committee, accordingly, examined Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs together on oath. (Verbatim record of the proceedings was kept.) (The witnesses then withdrew.)

87 3. The Committee further deliberated on the matter. In response to proposal made by the members that the call details of the phone numbers mentioned in the joint written submission dated 3 August, 2008 made by Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste, be got verified, the Committee directed the Secretariat to get the requisite verification from the Ministry of Communications. The Committee, then, discussed the future course of action on the matter and decided to call Sarvashri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN and his colleagues, and Sarvashri Rewati Raman Singh, MP, Sanjeev Saxena, Sudheendra Kulkarni and Suhail Hindustani for oral evidence on 11 August, 2008 and 18 August, 2008, respectively. (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

88 MINUTES OF THE FOURTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Monday, the 11 August, 2008 from 1100 hrs. to 1330 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri P.D.T. Achary — Secretary-General 2. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 3. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 4. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 5. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary

WITNESSES 1. Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN 2. Shri Siddhartha Gautam, Reporter 3. Shri Rohit Khanna, Producer 4. Shri Saif R. Kidwai, Producer 5. Shri Sudesh Bhat, Cameraperson 6. Shri Karamveer, Cameraperson 2. At the outset, the Chairman welcomed Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN and his colleagues to the sitting of the Committee. The Committee then examined Sarvashri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN, Siddhartha Gautam, Reporter, Rohit Khanna, Producer, Saif R. Kidwai, Producer, Sudesh Bhat, Cameraperson and Karamveer, Cameraperson all together on oath. Shri Sardesai handed over to the Committee written submission on his behalf and a joint written

89 submission on behalf of his other colleagues. Shri Sardesai also handed over a tape covering ‘overground operation’ as also transcripts of all the audio and video tapes. (Verbatim record of the proceeding was kept.) (The witnesses then withdrew.) 3. The Committee directed the Secretariat to circulate the copies of the (i) written submissions filed by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai and others; (ii) ‘overground tapes’; and (iii) transcripts of all audio-video tapes, handed over by CNN-IBN team to all the members. The Committee further deliberated on the matter and decided to call Sarvashri Mahavir Bhagora, MP; Rewati Raman Singh, MP, Sanjeev Saxena, Sudheendra Kulkarni; and Suhail Hindustani for oral evidence on 18 August, 2008. (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

90 MINUTES OF THE FIFTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Monday, the 18 August, 2008 from 1100 hrs. to 1430 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi. PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri P. D. T. Achary — Secretary-General 2. Shri V. K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 3. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 4. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 5. Shri M. L. K. Raja — Under Secretary

WITNESSES 1. Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP 2. Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni 3. Shri Suhail Hindustani 4. Shri Sanjeev Saxena 2. The Committee further deliberated on the matter. The Committee then examined Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP on oath. (Verbatim record of the proceeding was kept.) (The witness then withdrew.) 3. The Committee, thereafter, examined Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni in the matter on oath. During his evidence Shri Kulkarni handed over his additional written submissions. (Verbatim record of the proceeding was kept.) (The witness then withdrew.)

91 4. The Committee, then, examined Shri Suhail Hindustani in the matter on oath. (Verbatim record of the proceeding was kept.) (The witness then withdrew.) 5. The Committee, thereafter, examined Shri Sanjeev Saxena in the matter on oath. (Verbatim record of the proceeding was kept.) (The witness then withdrew.) (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

92 MINUTES OF THE SIXTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Wednesday, the 27 August, 2008 from 1130 hrs. to 1230 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi. PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri P.D.T. Achary — Secretary-General 2. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 3. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 4. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 5. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. The Committee were scheduled to hear Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MP. He, however, did not appear before the Committee. The Committee, thereafter, considered the two notes that were circulated by the Secretariat to the members viz (i) “the procedure for dealing with complaints against members of the other house; and (ii) “Narco-Analysis Tests”. The Chairman informed the members that a DVD of the recording had been received in the Secretariat which CNN-IBN aired on 11.8.2008. The Chairman directed the Secretariat to get the copies of the same made and circulate them to the members of the Committee. 3. The Committee then deliberated further on the matter. A member of the Committee viz Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra handed over a note* and desired that details of withdrawal of the bundles of cash from various banks that were kept on the Table of the House by the three members, be obtained. He also desired that certain facts need to be established like identification of the person who was accompanying Shri Sanjeev Saxena and carrying money to Shri Ashok Argal’s residence, the driver of the Maruti Zen who was with Shri Suhail Hindustani and two

*Please see Annexure.

93 members who went to the residence of Shri Amar Singh; video footage, if any from CNN-IBN when they went to Le-meridian hotel with hidden cameras along with two members; and the video footage of the interview taken by CNN-IBN, of Sarvashri Ashok Argal, Faggan Singh Kulaste and Mahavir Bhagora after the completion of the sting operation. The Committee directed the Secretariat to write to all concerned authorities in this regard. 4. In view of this position, members unanimously felt that it might not be possible for the Committee to submit their report to the Hon’ble Speaker by 29 August, 2008 and the Committee would require further time for finalizing their report and submitting the same to the Hon’ble Speaker. The Committee accordingly authorised the Chairman to seek extension of time upto 30 September, 2008 for submitting their report of the Committee. 5. The Committee, then, decided to meet again on 11 September, 2008 to deliberate further on the issue. (Verbatim record of the proceedings was kept.) (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

94 ANNEXURE (Please see para 2 of minutes) Dated: August 25, 2008 To The Chairman, Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with the voting on the Motion of Confidence Room No. 147, Parliament House, New Delhi

Sub : Additional Points of Queries

Sir,

On the above mentioned subject, I would suggest that Committee should obtain inputs on the following points for examination prior to formulating its draft report:

(1) As per Para 11 of the Lok Sabha Privileges & Ethics Branch, Memorandum No. 18, the prime evidences in the case, namely S/Shri Ahmed Patel and Amar Singh, being members of the other House i.e., Rajya Sabha, are beyond the authority of this Committee to be summoned. Waht steps are contemplated to overcome this handicap— for instance, whether any request from hon’ble Speaker to hon’ble Chairman seeking presence of these two hon’ble members of Rajya Sabha as special dispensation considering the importance of the matter under probe, have been pursued. If not, it should be pursued in right earnest?

(2) The fact that two BJP MPs, who are complainants, namely S/Shri Ashok Argal and Faggan Singh Kulaste, traveled from 4, Ferozeshah Road to 27, Lodhi Estate on the morning of 22 July 2008 as was insisted upon by the mediating Samajwadi Party MP, Shri Rewati Raman Singh the previous mid-night, to meet Shri Amar Singh who, as stated in the video, only had the authority to finalise the deal e.g., amount to be settled, token amount to be disbursed etc., which Shri Rewati Raman Singh, obviously, could not do himself. It is stated in the complaint that Shri Amar singh indeed met these two MPs on 22 July 2008 when they visited his residence at 27, Lodhi Estate when he also got them in touch with Shri Ahmed Patel over phone but this inference of the complainants has been denied by Shri Rewati Raman Singh and also by Shri Sanjiv Saxena in their respective evidences before the Committee.

In order to enable the Committee to verify the factual position and arrive at a fair conclusion in this regard, the call detail records (CDRs) of telephones communications originating nad destinating at the premises at No. 4, Ferozeshah Road (residence of Shri Ashok Argal) and at No. 27, Lodhi Estate (residence of shri Amar singh) and

95 vice versa are needed to be obtained which whould provdie crucial evidence in this matter. I would, therefore, request that CDRs of 22nd July, 2008 covering the period from 0730 hours till 1230 hours may be summoned from the respective telephone service providers of the under-mentioned landline and mobile telephone numbers:

Telephone No. Category

24616827 Landline 23782233* Landline 9811721499 Mobile 9873210341 Mobile

*call details to be sought for between 2100 hrs. of 21 July 2008 till 0130 hrs. of 22 July, 2008. (3) The cause of action covering 21st July, 2008 journey from 17, Balwant Rai Mehta lane, New Delhi, to the Le Meridien Hotel, New Delhi, by the three complainants purportedly for a pre-arranged meeting with Shri Ahmed Patel, MP (Rajya Sabha) for discussion in respect of the ‘deal’ has been narrated by complainants as well as witnesses before the Committee. Hwoever, Committee has been handicapped to examine this vital aspect of the matter under enquiry in absence of clinching audio/ visual evidence unlike those of other proceedings in the matter dated 22 July 2008. Logically, CNN-IBN team, comprising of investigator Siddharth Gautam and cameraman Sudesh, accompanying the complainants tailing the complainants, whose clothes were fitted with hidden recording devices, in a separate car must have caught the visual of the journey especially the phase of approaching Le Meridien Hotel lobby, meeting with some persons there and exit in their camera albeit CNN-IBN have not provdied those vital evidences to the Committee. Since the Committee have not been given any footage in this regard by CNN-IBN TV channel the concerned footage should be demanded officially from the TV channel as concealment of information by them may not be advisable. (4) The veracity of the complaint about the ‘deal’ circuit linking Shri Amar Singh, Shri Sanjiv Saxena and delivery of cash on the morning hours of 22 July 2008 at 4, Firozeshah Road can be reasonably verified by establishing the identity of the “young man wearing yellowish colour shirt flowing over his trouser” who has been once seen in the video tape provdied by the CNN-IBN channel to be coming out of the gate of 27, Lodhi Estate and is again seen to be entering into the premises of 27 Lodhi Estate from the right side in the visual. The same young man is again seen to be carrying the cash-bag inside the room acompanying Shri Sanjiv Saxena where Shri Argal and other complainants are sitting. The said young man not only has been seen to be drawing himself, without being apparently instructed to do so, the curtains in the room when the cash was being unloaded on the table, but also unilaterally connected a number on his mobile phone, apparently the number which Shri Sanjiv Saxena was trying to connect in vain, and handed over the handset to Shri Sanjiv Saxena. The entire episode made a centimate link between Shri Sanjiv Saxena and this young man in yellowish shirt too explicit to be treated as an “unknown associate” attached to Shri Sanjiv Saxena by force. Surprisingly, Shri Sanjiv Saxena, when enquired by the Committee during his evidence on 18 August 2008, expressed his inability to identify

96 this young man in yellowish shirt who he claimed to had been trust upon forcefuly to accompany him in the exercise. He commented this young man to “an associate” attached to him by force. (Ref: verbatim dated 18.8.2008 at p/67). Moreover, while Shri Sanjiv Saxena took a stand before the Committee that he was not allowed entry into 27, Lodhi Estate on 22 July, 2008 (Ref: verbatim dated 18.8.2008 at p/70), in the video tape, the young man in yellowish shirt is seen to frequenting in and out of the gate at 27, Lodhi Estate without any hassle whatsoever. Incidentally, in the video tape provdied by Ms. Uma Bharati, Shri Sanjiv Saxena is seen to roaming around quite freely on his own. (5) Since a wide gap seems to exists in the evidence available in the video tapes and the statements made by Shri Sanjiv Saxena especially relating to his link with the young man in yellowish shirt and considering the importance of unearthing the root of this vital link, it should be advisable for the Committee to call upon Shri Sanjiv Saxena to disclose the real identity, including the address of this young man and also the details about his mobile telephone number. Failing which, the Committee may give the Police authority his picture entrusting them with the task of locating the man and ensuring his appearance before the Committee at the earliest. Thirdly, Shri Sanjiv Saxena may be called again to appear before the hon’ble Committee especially to clarify his submission that on 22nd July, 2008 morning hours he, despite his efforts, was not allowed entry into the residence of Shri Amar Singh at 27, Lodhi Estate (Ref: verbatim dt. 18.8.2008 at p/70) and that the yellow shirt man was by force attached to him as “an associate” (Ref: verbatim dt. 18.8.2008 at p/67) whereas the yellow shirt man was seen on the video tape to be frequenting in-and- out of Shri Amar Singh’s residence at will. This contradiction needs to be solved in order that the truth may emerge. (6) The bundles of currency notes which were alleged received by the complainants on 22nd July, 2008 as token payment for entering into the ‘deal’ for abstaining from voting which they finally presented before the hon’ble Chair as their whistle-blowing operation are seen to sacked in bundles with slip of the relevant Bank pasted on the top. As per the practice in vogue, the banks are understood to be obliged to invariably report high volume cash transactions to the concerned authorities. It should, therfore, be useful to obtain statement from each of the Banks identifying the drawees of the money. (7) Finally, the video and audio tapes furnished by CNN-IBN television channel may be sent to Forensic Laboratory for testing whether these are indeed original tapes or have been tampered with in any manner before submission to the hon’ble Speaker.

Yours faithfully,

Sd/- (VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA)

97 MINUTES OF THE SEVENTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Thursday, the 11 September, 2008 from 1130 hrs. to 1230 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi. PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo—Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 2. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 3. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 4. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. At the outset Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra distributed a note* written by him in which he made some suggestions for consideration by the Committee. Prof. Malhotra desired that his note be a part of record/proceedings. The Committee concurred. The Committee then held further deliberations on the matter. On the request of Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav, a member of the Committee, the Committee viewed the tape furnished by Sarvashri Lalu Prasad Yadav and Ramvilas Paswan, Ministers and Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav, member and Leader of Opposition, Uttar Pradesh Vidhan Sabha comprising some statements made by Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MP on TV channels. The Committee thereafter deliberated at length as to whether or not to take cognizance of post- dated tapes (tapes which were furnished to the Committee after the voting on the Confidence Motion held on 22 July, 2008). After due deliberation the Committee decided not to take cognizance of post-dated tapes. 3. The Committee thereafter decided to again request Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MP to appear before the Committee for evidence. The Committee also decided to take evidence of the person who was driving the Maruti Zen in which Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MPs supposedly had gone to meet Shri Amar Singh at his residence. The Committee further desired

*Please see Annexure [Note is identical to the one handed over by Prof. Malhotra on 27.8.2008].

98 that the man wearing yellow shirt who carried the bag containing the money to Shri Ashok Argal’s house, be also called for giving oral evidence. The Committee also directed the Secretariat to obtain call details vis-à-vis the conversations which purportedly took place at the residence of Shri Amar Singh, MP Rajya Sabha on 22 July, 2008 from the Ministry of Telecommunications. The Committee decided to meet again on 25 September, 2008 at 1530 hrs. to further deliberate on the issue. (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

99 ANNEXURE (Please see para 2 of minutes)

Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ {, «UÊ. Á’‡Êê’⁄U ŒÊ‚ ◊ʪ¸, ‚¢‚Œ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-vvÆÆÆv VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA 6, Dr. Bishamber Dass Marg M.P. New Delhi-110 001 (India) Dy. Leader & Spokesman Te l.: 23715051, 23715070 B.J.P. Parliamentary Party (Lok Sabha) Fax: 91-11-23715045 Chairman Public Accounts Committee (Lok Sabha) August 25, 2008 To The Chairman, Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with the voting on the Motion of Confidence Room No. 147, Parliament House, New Delhi Sub : Additional Points of Queries Sir, On the above mentioned subject, I would suggest that Committee should obtain inputs on the following points for examination prior to formulating its draft report: (1) As per Para 11 of the Lok Sabha Privileges & Ethics Branch, Memorandum No. 18, the prime evidences in the case, namely S/Shri Ahmed Patel and Amar Singh, being members of the other House i.e., Rajya Sabha, are beyond the authority of this Committee to be summoned. Waht steps are contemplated to overcome this handicap— for instance, whether any request from hon’ble Speaker to hon’ble Chairman seeking presence of these two hon’ble members of Rajya Sabha as special dispensation considering the importance of the matter under probe, have been pursued. If not, it should be pursued in right earnest? (2) The fact that two BJP MPs, who are complainants, namely S/Shri Ashok Argal and Faggan Singh Kulaste, traveled from 4, Ferozeshah Road to 27, Lodhi Estate on the morning of 22 July 2008 as was insisted upon by the mediating Samajwadi Party MP, Shri Rewati Raman Singh the previous mid-night, to meet Shri Amar Singh who, as stated in the video, only had the authority to finalise the deal e.g., amount to be settled, token amount to be disbursed etc., which Shri Rewati Raman Singh, obviously, could not do himself. It is stated in the complaint that Shri Amar singh indeed met these two MPs on 22 July 2008 when they visited his residence at 27, Lodhi Estate

100 when he also got them in touch with Shri Ahmed Patel over phone but this inference of the complainants has been denied by Shri Rewati Raman Singh and also by Shri Sanjiv Saxena in their respective evidences before the Committee. In order to enable the Committee to verify the factual position and arrive at a fair conclusion in this regard, the call detail records (CDRs) of telephones communications originating and destinating at the premises at No. 4, Ferozeshah Road (residence of Shri Ashok Argal) and at No. 27, Lodhi Estate (residence of shri Amar singh) and vice versa are needed to be obtained which whould provdie crucial evidence in this matter. I would, therefore, request that CDRs of 22nd July, 2008 covering the period from 0730 hours till 1230 hours may be summoned from the respective telephone service providers of the under-mentioned landline and mobile telephone numbers: Telephone No. Category 24616827 Landline 23782233* Landline 9811721499 Mobile 9873210341 Mobile

*call details to be sought for between 2100 hrs. of 21 July 2008 till 0130 hrs. of 22 July, 2008. (3) The cause of action covering 21st July, 2008 journey from 17, Balwant Rai Mehta lane, New Delhi, to the Le Meridien Hotel, New Delhi, by the three complainants purportedly for a pre-arranged meeting with Shri Ahmed Patel, MP (Rajya Sabha) for discussion in respect of the ‘deal’ has been narrated by complainants as well as witnesses before the Committee. Hwoever, Committee has been handicapped to examine this vital aspect of the matter under enquiry in absence of clinching audio/ visual evidence unlike those of other proceedings in the matter dated 22 July 2008. Logically, CNN-IBN team, comprising of investigator Siddharth Gautam and cameraman Sudesh, accompanying the complainants tailing the complainants, whose clothes were fitted with hidden recording devices, in a separate car must have caught the visual of the journey especially the phase of approaching Le Meridien Hotel lobby, meeting with some persons there and exit in their camera albeit CNN-IBN have not provdied those vital evidences to the Committee. Since the Committee have not been given any footage in this regard by CNN-IBN TV channel the concerned footage should be demanded officially from the TV channel as concealment of information by them may not be advisable. (4) The veracity of the complaint about the ‘deal’ circuit linking Shri Amar Singh, Shri Sanjiv Saxena and delivery of cash on the morning hours of 22 July 2008 at 4, Firozeshah Road can be reasonably verified by establishing the identity of the “young man wearing yellowish colour shirt flowing over his trouser” who has been once seen in the video tape provdied by the CNN-IBN channel to be coming out of the gate of 27, Lodhi Estate and is again seen to be entering into the premises of 27 Lodhi Estate from the right side in the visual. The same young man is again seen to be carrying the cash-bag inside the room acompanying Shri Sanjiv Saxena where Shri Argal and other complainants are sitting. The said young man not only has been seen to be drawing himself, without being apparently instructed to do so, the curtains in the room when the cash was being unloaded on the table, but also unilaterally connected a number on his mobile phone, apparently the number which Shri Sanjiv Saxena was

101 trying to connect in vain, and handed over the handset to Shri Sanjiv Saxena. The entire episode made a intimate link between Shri Sanjiv Saxena and this young man in yellowish shirt too explicit to be treated as an “unknown associate” attached to Shri Sanjiv Saxena by force. Surprisingly, shirt Sanjiv Saxena, when enquired by the Committee during his evidence on 18 August 2008, expressed his inability to identify this young man in yellowish shirt who he claimed to had been trust upon forcefuly to accompany him in the exercise. He commented this young man to “an associate” attached to him by force. (Ref: verbatim dated 18.8.2008 at p/67). Moreover, while Shri Sanjiv Saxena took a stand before the Committee that he was not allowed entry into 27, Lodhi Estate on 22 July, 2008 (Ref: verbatim dated 18.8.2008 at p/70), in the video tape, the young man in yellowish shirt is seen to frequenting in and out of the gate at 27, Lodhi Estate without any hassle whatsoever. Incidentally, in the video tape provdied by Ms. Uma Bharati, Shri Sanjiv Saxena is seen to roaming around quite freely on his own. (5) Since a wide gap seems to exists in the evidence available in the video tapes and the statements made by Shri Sanjiv Saxena especially relating to his link with the young man in yellowish shirt and considering the importance of unearthing the root of this vital link, it should be advisable for the Committee to call upon Shri Sanjiv Saxena to disclose the real identity, including the address of this young man and also the details about his mobile telephone number. Failing which, the Committee may give the Police authority his picture entrusting them with the task of locating the man and ensuring his appearance before the Committee at the earliest. Thirdly, Shri Sanjiv Saxena may be called again to appear before the hon’ble Committee especially to clarify his submission that on 22nd July, 2008 morning hours he, despite his efforts, was not allowed entry into the residence of Shri Amar Singh at 27, Lodhi Estate (Ref: verbatim dt. 18.8.2008 at p/70) and that the yellow shirt man was by force attached to him as “an associate” (Ref: verbatim dt. 18.8.2008 at p/67) whereas the yellow shirt man was seen on the video tape to be frequenting in-and- out of Shri Amar Singh’s residence at will. This contradiction needs to be solved in order that the truth may emerge. (6) The bundles of currency notes which were alleged received by the complainants on 22nd July, 2008 as token payment for entering into the ‘deal’ for abstaining from voting which they finally presented before the hon’ble Chair as their whistle-blowing operation are seen to sacked in bundles with slip of the relevant Bank pasted on the top. As per the practice in vogue, the banks are understood to be obliged to invariably report high volume cash transactions to the concerned authorities. It should, therfore, be useful to obtain statement from each of the Banks identifying the drawees of the money. (7) Finally, the video and audio tapes furnished by CNN-IBN television channel may be sent to Forensic Laboratory for testing whether these are indeed original tapes or have been tampered with in any manner before submission to the hon’ble Speaker. Yours faithfully,

Sd/- (VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA)

102 MINUTES OF THE EIGHTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Thursday, the 25 September, 2008 from 1130 hrs. to 1200 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi. PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo—Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Shri Rajesh Verma 6. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 7. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 2. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 3. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 4. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. At the outset, the Chairman informed the members that he has received a letter from Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MP expressing his inability to appear before the Committee for oral evidence due to his reported illness. The Committee, thereafter, awaited Shri Hashmat Ali, the person who was seen driving the white Maruti in question on 22 July, 2008 which, as per the relevant tape furnished by CNN-IBN, entered 27, Lodhi Estate residence of Shri Amar Singh, member of Rajya Sabha and came out after a while therefrom. Shri Hashmat Ali, who was scheduled to depose before the Committee did not appear at the scheduled time. The Committee, therefore, decided to dispense with his evidence. In view of the situation obtaining, the members of the Committee unanimously felt that the Committee would need some more time for finalising their report and submitting the same to the Hon’ble Speaker. The Committee accordingly authorised the Chairman to seek extension of the time upto 20 October, 2008 for submitting their report to Hon’ble Speaker. The Committee then directed the Secretariat to prepare a draft Report on the matter and circulate the same before the next sitting of the Committee for their consideration. (Verbatim record of the proceedings was kept.) (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

103 MINUTES OF THE NINTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Monday, the 6 October, 2008 from 1100 hrs. to 1145 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi. PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo—Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Shri C. Kuppusami 3. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 4. Shri Rajesh Verma 5. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 6. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri P.D.T. Achary — Secretary-General 2. Shri V.K. Sharma — Joint Secretary 3. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 4. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 5. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. At the outset, the Chairman informed the members that draft Report on the matter has already been circulated to them. Thereafter, he sought their views on the draft Report. Members while expressing their views also submitted that due to paucity of time and other engagements they could not go through the draft Report and wanted more time to go through the Report. Some members raised the issue of breach of privilege against the three members who displayed wads of currency notes inside the House. The Chairman informed the members that this issue is beyond the purview of the Committee and more so it is a matter which is to be decided by the Speaker. The Chairman directed the Secretariat to circulate the revised draft Report to the members after carrying out necessary corrections. 3. The Chairman, also informed the members that the ‘Report on Brain Electro Physiology based technologies for forensic interrogation in India’ by Peer Review Committee headed by Prof. D. Nagaraja, Director, National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences (NIMHANS), Bangalore has since been received and will be circulated to the members for their information and use. 4. The Committee decided to meet again on 17 October, 2008 at 1600 hrs. to consider and adopt the revised draft Report. (Verbatim record of the proceedings was kept.) (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

104 MINUTES OF THE TENTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Monday, the 17 October, 2008 from 1600 hrs. to 1645 hrs. in Committee Room ‘E’, Parliament House Annexe, New Delhi. PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo—Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 3. Shri Mohammad Salim 4. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav 5. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 2. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 3. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. At the outset, the Chairman welcomed the members of the Inquiry Committee. The Chairman informed the members that Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra and Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav, members of the Committee have given their written submissions/comments* to be incorporated in the draft Report. After some deliberation, the Committee authorised the Chairman to go through the proposals and take a view on the same. The Committee felt that it would be appropriate to finalise the report after considering all proposals and suggestions so made. The Chairman directed that the proposals given by Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra and Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav together with the final draft Report might be circulated to all the members. 3. Shri Mohammad Salim, a member of the Committee raised a question of giving another chance to Shri Hashmat Ali, the person who was driving the Maruti Zen, to appear before the Committee for evidence as he being the key witness. The Chairman informed that other witnesses who were part of the whistle blowing/sting operation, of which Shri Hashmat Ali was also a part of, have already been examined on oath by the Committee, therefore, calling Shri Hashmat Ali for evidence might not be of any material relevance. 4. The Committee decided to meet again on 30 October, 2008 at 1130 hrs. for consideration and adoption of the final draft Report. (Verbatim record of the proceedings was kept.) (The Committee, then, adjourned.) *Please see Annexures.

105 ANNEXURE (Please see Para 2 of the Minutes)

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Date: 15.10.2008 Dear Sir, I would like to suggest certain facts which may after due consideration be incorporated in the final report. 1. The Committee after adopting an appropriate procedure has ascertained that no evidence or any independent witness is available in order to establish that there was any conversation related to the Vote of Confidence. 2. Whether the evidence produced before the Committee establishes that the money paid by Shri Sanjeev Saxena was in fact for voting in the Parliament during the said of confidence and if so whether he was aware that he was in fact delivering money to the said persons? 3. Whether the witnesses are independent witnesses and have honestly deposed before the Committee. The Committee should not place any reliance on those witnesses who are involved in tampering with and motivating the witnesses. In fact the Video CD of Faggan Kulaste, Sudhindra Kulkarni, Hasmat and Sohail presented before the committee are enough to conclusively establish that the abovementioned persons are merely trying to get political mileage by creating a false story to defame the Hon’ble Prime Minister. 4. It may be apposite to mention that the main conspirator Sudhindra Kulkarni is an active worker of the BJP. Shri Kulkarni had admitted to the media that the conspiracy was in fact hatched by him. 5. Shri Sohail hindustani who was part of the conspiracy has been actively working for the BJP for the past several years. 6. It is crystal clear that the conspiracy was hatched with a sinister purpose to create doubts in the mind of the common man about the vote of confidence and in the manner in which it succeeded the same. 7. Shri Sanjeev Saxena had disclosed that he was working for Shahid Siddiqui. The said Shahid Sidhiqui had left the Samajwadi Party on 21st of July 2008 and it was on the express instructions of Shahid Siddiqui that Shri Sanjeev Saxena had gone to the BJP office from where he drove to 4 Ferozshah Road with Sohail and one other person.

106 8. Also, Shri Sanjeev Saxena had disclosed that he was forced to deliver the bag and the open it in the presence of others. He discloses that he was not aware of the purpose or the intention of Shahid Siddiqui, the BJP and Sohail Hindustani in dispatching him till he reached 4 Ferozeshah Road and delivered the bag. It is also clear from a mere perusal of the Video CD of CNN IBN that he neither knew that money was in the bag nor the criminal intention behind it. 9. I feel that the Video CD of Sanjeev Saxena and the Audio CD of Kulaste are themselves sufficient to establish that the money belongs to and was supplied by the BJP. It is apposite to mention here that in no uncertain terms Shri Kulaste states that only Arun ji could indicate as to what is the source of the money. Also Sanjeev had been caught on camera frequently visiting the house of Shahid Siddiqui and the BJP office. 10. A bare perusal of the complaints filed by Argal and Kulaste and the communication in regard to certain corrections establishes that their entire complaint is an after thought. It is also established from the statements of the executives of the TV channel CNN-IBN and its reporter that there are contradictions in their statements vis-a-vis the statements made by the said BJP MPs. The claim of Mr. Asok Argal and Faggan Singh Kulaste was itself contradicted by the same reporter with a clarifying statement that the reporter was neither aware of anything happened out side the house of Argal nor he was present during talks and he was also not aware of the circumstances of recording. It is crystal clear that these MPs did not visit the house of Amar Singh and this is merely a vicious and underhand technique sought to be employed to show Amar Singh in bad light. On the basis of audio-visual evidence as also the contradictions in the statements referred to above, it is clear that there was no role of Amar Singh and Ahmed Patel as falsely alleged by Sohail, Faggan, Sudhindra and Argal in the delivery of money to the “distinguished MPs” in question in a bid to secure their votes during the time to the vote of confidence. 11. Keeping in view the abovementioned aspects I suggest that Sanjeev Saxena should be given the benefit of doubt because there is no incontrovertible evidence to show that Sanjeev Saxena had either lied or made any false statements before the Committee as also that he was not aware of what exactly it was that he was delivering. We can not deny the possibilities that Sanjeev was forced to do so as alleged by him before the Committee. To take any action against him may be tantamount to taking action against an unsuspecting “delivery boy or a courier”. Whereas, this conspiracy was hatched by and at the behest of the BJP and other interested groups who did not wanted the UPA Government to continue and it is against the people who designed such a sinister plot and sought to carry it through to completion that stern and immediate action ought to be taken. In this regard it may be pertinent to peruse and examine the statements of the members of the BJP MPs, Sudhindra Kulkarni, Sohail Hindustani, Sanjeev Saxena and the executives and reporters of CNN-IBN as the “first party” and that of others in connection with the series of incidents connected with and leading up to the vote of confidence as the “second party”. Thereafter, a bare perusal of the statements made by the first party and the blatant contradictions in their statements will establish that the members of the BJP were untruthful time and again as suited them and also that the audio-visual evidence discloses that Sudhindra Kulkarni offered money in lieu of false statements being made in favour of BJP complainants. 107 12. Finally, I think that it may be apposite to recommend that appropriate action should be taken to punish the conspirators by the Parliament itself. I am of the view that the Parliament is sufficiently empowered to handle such issues and punish the culprits. We should not even need any other enquiry after the thorough investigation by the Parliamentary Committee, for to do so may be tantamount to undermining the very authority of the Parliamentary Committee and will send a wrong message to the citizens of India.

Yours Sincerely

Sd/- (RAM GOPAL YADAV) To, Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo The Chairman Committee To Inquire Into Complaint Made By Some Members Regarding Alleged Offer of Money to Them.

108 ANNEXURE (Please see Para 2 of the Minutes)

Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ {, «UÊÚ. Á’‡Êê’⁄U ŒÊ‚ ◊ʪ¸, ‚¢‚Œ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-vvÆÆÆv VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA 6, Dr. Bishamber Dass Marg M.P. New Delhi-110 001 (India) Dy. Leader & Spokesman Te l. : 23715051, 23715070 B.J.P. Parliamentary Party (Lok Sabha) Fax : 91-11-23715045 Chairman Public Accounts Committee (Lok Sabha)

To, October, 16, 2008 The Chairman, The Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members rearding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence 147, Parliament House, New Delhi. Subject: Draft report & submission by Shri Hashmat Ali Sir, I am enclosing my para-wise comments on the Draft Report for consideration by the Committee for formulating the final draft of the report proposed to be submitted to the hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha. 2. With reference to the contents of Para 10 of the Draft Report, I understand, Shri Hashmat Ali, Driver of the Zen car, who is known to had been prevented from appearing before the Committee to adduce his evidence on the scheduled date of 25th September, 2008, had actually submitted his written submission date 19.8.08 to your goodself the next day i.e., on 26th September, 2008 but the same seems to have not been circulated in the Committee. I am enclosing a copy of the submission dated 19.8.08 of Shri Hashmat Ali for your ready reference and would request you to have the contents thereof incorporate in the draft report, appropriately.

Yours faithfully,

Sd/- (VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA) Encl: 1. Comments (20 pages) 2. Letter of the Hashmat Ali

109 DRAFT REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

PARA-WISE COMMENTS 1. Introduction and Procedure I. Shri Kishore Chandra Singh Deo, Chairman of the Committee to Inquire into the joint complaint dated 25th July 2008 made by three Members of Lok Sabha, namely Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, alleging offer of money made to them in connection with voting on the motion of confidence in the Lok Sabha during July 21 and 22, 2008, having been authorised by the Committee to submit the Report on their behalf, present this Report to the hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha. The contents of Paras 2 to 12 being calendar of the Committee’s proceedings, no revision seems necessary, except in para 10 dealing with failure of Shri Hashmat Ali, driver of the Zen model car No. Dl 5CC 7218, to appear and depose before the Committee on the scheduled date because of his alleged disappearance, followed by the Press Conference held by Shri Amar Singh publicly registering his complaint about black-mailing attempted by the said Shri Hasmat Ali and refusal of the Home Ministry to let the Police register any formal complaint in this regard—as also the refusal of the Police to act on Hashmat Ali’s written complaint alleging kidnapping and physical threats by Shri Amar Singh—are necessary to be duly recorded in this Paragraph as integral part and parcel of the ‘cash-for-vote’ episode. The following should also be recorded: “The Committee takes serious view of the fact that Shri Amar Singh prevented Shri Hashmat Ali from appearing before the Committee on the scheduled date by a design. Although he did not appear before the Committee, he has sent a signed submission dated 19.8.2008 (it was submitted to the Chairman of the Committee on 26th September 2008) stating, inter alia, that he drove the two MPs—Shri Argal and Shri Faggan Singh—along with Sohail Hindustani in his car to the residence of Shri Amar Singh on 22.7.08”. II. Examination of complainants (members) by the Committee: 13.(Be revised as under) “As per convention and practice, the witnesses appearing before a Parliamentary Committee for giving oral evidence are separately called in the sitting of Committee. Due to the fact that the genesis of the inquiry by this Committee arose in the complaint signed jointly by three hon’ble Members of Lok Sabha following a ‘whistle blowing’ episode also enacted jointly by them on the floor of the Lok Sabha on 22nd July, 2008, the Committee deliberated on the procedure to be followed in the instant case. While some members suggested that they should be called jointly considering the fact that they had commonly participated in the whistle blowing episode and submitted a common complaint to the hon’ble Speaker of Lok Sabha under their joint signature, a few others suggested that the convention need not be deviated from. They suspected that, if the complainant MPs deposed before the Committee jointly, it might deprive the Committee of the opportunity to examine whether there were 110 any inconsistencies in their testimonies in the matter. However, the Committee found the arguments put forward by the former to be rational and decided to hear both the MPs together.”

III. Facts of the case

Contents in Paras 14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21 and 22, being the chronology of developments in the matter and quotes of relevant written communications made by individuals related to the same, no revision/amendment seem necessary.

Contents of Paras 26 to 69 being matter of records of depositing by witnesses before the Committee may remain as they are.

Findings and Conclusions

Para 70: The following statement needs be added at the end of the para:

“Four crucial witnesses related to the episode could not be examined. There were: (1) Shri Amar Singh, (2) Shri Ahmed Patel, (3) The “young man in yellow shrit” who was seen on the CNN-IBN video tape twice in the close proximity of the premises at 27, Lodhi Estate, residence of Shri Amar Singh, and also to be intimately involved in carrying the cash bag at its delivery point along with Shri Sanjeev Saxena, and (4) Shri Hashmat Ali, driver of the Zen model car No. DL 5 CC 7218 who was prevented to appear before the Committee on the pre- scheduled date.

Para 78: Since Shri A.B. Bardhan, a senior leader of the Left Front having been thickly involved into the political developments in the capital related to withdrawal on 8th July, 2008 support by the Left Front to the UPA, in particular, which culminated into the arousal of the necessity for the UPA Government to go for “vote of confidence” in the Lok Sabha, in his response to the Committee re-affirmed his personal knowledge about the perpetration of ‘horse trading’ on opposition MPs as he stated in his letter “…the unethical manoauvres and operations by the ruling party, through allurements, intimidation, unimaginably huge amounts of money and other foul means to suborn the loyalty and integrity of a number of MPs.…” the observation in concluding part of Para 78 does not reflect the realities adequately. Hence, be amended as under:-

The words “in the ardour of oratorical fervour” in the 5th line of the para be substituted by “as expression of anguish arising from his personal knowledge of horse-trading by the ruling party and from the perception largely prevailed in the public domain at the relevant time which haunted the minds of the thinkers in the society as articulated by Shri A.B. Bardhan in his speech”.

The next para “As to whether... The Committee would be leaving it at that” should be replaced by:

“The Committee shares the anguish of a senior leader like Shri Bardhan. Therefore, it has examined the entire episode in the light of the concerns expressed by him with a view to establishing the truth of this corruption scandal”.

Para 81. In the last para, only the first sentence should be retained. The remaining portion up to “…did not take cognizance of these tapes.” should be deleted. After this sentence, the

111 following should be added: “Since the submission of these post-dated tapes have proved to be mischievous endeavours by people interested in distracting the Committee from its ‘Inquiry” as a diversionary tactic, obviously, in an attempt to protect those named in the Complaint dated 25th July, 2008, the Committee censures those persons who are found to have indulged in such mischief, especially because some of them are holding high office of Ministers in the Union Cabinet. Indeed, submission of these false tapes is a vital clue to prove inter alia the bonafide of the assertion made by Shri A.B. Bardhan in his public speech on 14th July, 2008 about the unethical maneauvres and operation by the ruling party. (Ref: para 78). Para 82. The Committee needs to record appropriate justification with regard to its enquiring with the Ministry of Finance only about the records of cash withdrawals from the respective Banks on the basis of “Series” details on the Currency Notes albeit no such records are known to be maintained in the dealing branches, instead of asking for details of accounts records of “high value withdrawals” from these banks pertaining to the relevant period! Paras: 84-85 (at p 69 to 70): The contents as they are in these paragraphs tend to express some sort of aversion of the Committee to cause appearance of two members of Rajya Sabha, namely Shri Ahmed Patel and Shri Amar Singh. Under the alibi of the so-called “well established position as laid down in the Practice and Procedure of Parliament by M.N. Kaul and S.L. Shakdher that ‘Neither House of Parliament can claim or exercise any authority over a member of the other House’, if adopted, would prove to be self-defeating as far as the very objective and purpose behind constitution of this Enquiry Committee of Lok Sabha is concerned. Considering the unprecedented nature of the situation which emerged on 22 July, 2008 posting one of the gravest ever threat to the very credibility of Parliament in India and considering that the entire need of the present enquiry hinged on the complaint against the said two Rajya Sabha members, it should have been imperative to rely on a pragmatic approach instead of taking recourse to the half-century-old Sixth Report of the Committee of Privileges (2nd Lok Sabha) dated 12th December, 1958, which, after all, could not have dwelt upon a situation as we witnessed in the Lok Sabha on July 22, 2008. Moreover, even from the excerpts of the 1958 Report, as quoted in Para 84 (at p/70) does not imply that a member from other House is immune to Enquiry when constituted by one House of Parliament as the Report said “...the House should not permit any one of its Members to give evidence before the other House of Parliament or a Committee thereof or before a House of State Legislature or a Committee thereof, without a request desiring his attendance and without the consent of the Member whose attendance is required...no Member of the House should give evidence before the other House or Committee... without the leave of the House being first obtained...” Para 86 (at p/71): Taking into account the fact that there is no insurmountable restriction prescribed to bar an enquiry Committee of a House of Parliament from causing appearance of Member of the other House, it would be logical for the Committee to put up a request to the hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha to implore upon the presiding Officer of Rajya Sabha to either facilitate the Upper House to grant leave of the House to its two Members, namely Shri Ahmed Patel and Shri Amar Singh, to appear before the Committee for their examination or, ALTERNATIVELY, to assign the Ethics Committee of Rajya Sabha to examine the complaint against these two Members. Para 86 (at p/71) The contents of the Para 86, therefore, needs to revised as under:- “Taking into account the extant provision in the rules and procedures of Lok Sabha and the report of the Committee of Privileges dated 12th December, 1958, the Committee propose

112 to make a submission to the hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha to make an appropriate request to the hon’ble Chairman, Rajya Sabha, to facilitate grant of Leave of that House to Shri Ahmed Patel and Shri Amar Singh to enable the Ethics to cause their appearance for examination of the complaint against them.” Para 89. Although, admittedly, a pre-planned meeting on July 21, 2008 between Shri Ahmed Patel with the three complaints in person could not take place either at the residence of Shri Ahmed Patel or at the alternative venue—Le Meriden Hotel, New Delhi, the trail of the developments relating to the same on that very day, namely their subsequent visit to the Claridges Hotel, New Delhi, and evidences about the persons, particularly Sardar Lovely Singh and others connected to Sardar Buta Singh (as surfaced during the examination of the witnesses), contacted by the whistle blowing team ought to find a mention here. In this regard, the following excerpts from the written submission made by one of the witnesses, namely Shri Suhail Hindustani, vide his letter dated August 12, 2008, addressed to hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha, are found relevant and necessary to be quoted: “...around 1.30 in the afternoon, Mr. Gupta (IAS working under Haryana Chief Minister B.S. Hooda at Haryana Bhavan, New Delhi) advised me over phone to meet him at the Claridges Hotel...when I was eating soup at the restaurant, two persons—Shri Lovely Singh (son of former Home Minister and former Governor of Bihar) and another person introduced himself to Shri Aman Arora and a friend of Shri Lavli Singh (Ref: para 1 at page 116 of the “addl. materials” circulated on 20.8.08). “... visited the residence of Shri Kulkarni around 10 O’clock at night. He Fixed the spying camera on the shirts worn by Shri Kulaste and Shri Bhagora respectively and after that I took them Meriden hotel around 11-11.30 at night. We traveled in the car of Shri Kulaste on which MP label was pasted. Shri Argal stayed back at the residence of Shri Kulkarni. After reaching the hotel, Shri Lavli Singh informed over phone that Shri Ahmed Patel after waiting for the ‘Plots’ for long had left for 10, Janpath.” (Ref: paras 2 & 3 at p/117 of the ‘additional materials’ circulated on 20.8.08). The above mentioned excerpts seem essential to be dwelt upon here because of the vital clue to the mystery of alleged involvement of Shri Ahmed patel in the episode in absentia inherent into it to a large extent, which does not justify hastening to absolve Shri Ahmed patel of the role he was alleged to had played in the episode, outrightly. After all the Committee is constrained to examine the telephone records of the conversations alleged to had taken place on July 21, 2008 between the members of the whistle-blower team and others e.g., Lovely Singh etc. on the relevant date and time. Para 91. Expression of doubt about non-recording by CNN-IBN men of the conversations which had taken place between Shri Amar Singh and the complainant MPs on 22nd July, 2008 at the former’s residence although the TV channel had made all “such preparations for the (proposed) meeting with Shri Ahmad Patel at the Hotel Le Meridian seems to be preposterous being oblivious of the technicalities of the action involved and, hence, needs to be revised. Since ‘Jamming’ gadgets were apprehended to have been installed at the residence of Shri Amar Singh who himself had been treading with extreme caution in the matter, having publicly announced his determination to save the UPA Government by any means, any attempt to discreetly record conversations when took place within 27, Lodhi Estate, could have been proved to be suicidal both for the TV Channel and the Whistle Blowers. The above fact needs to be reflected in Para 91 which may be achieved by adding the following at the end of the para:

113 “The reply to this query may be found in the understandable apprehensions expressed by the complainants/witnesses that Shri Amar Singh was suspected to have installed telecon jamming gadgets at his residence as a security measure and could have also installed devices capable of detecting bugging/recording devices if fitted in person to Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste during their visit to 27, Lodhi Estate on July 22, 2008 morning.” Para 92: The concluding sentence of the Para 92 stating that “The Committee wish to bring it on record this contradictory position.” be, therefore, omitted. Para 93. The observation about Shri Ahmed Patel is preposterous as the Committee have not been equipped with the technical expertise and infrastructure necessary to verify the complaints relating to the role of Shri Ahmed Patel. The conclusion like “there is not an iota of evidence”, “figment of one’s imagination” and “politically motivated ploy” etc. cannot be drawn by the Committee due to the said handicap. Such observation by the Committee with a view to absolve Shri Ahmed Patel of any role in the episode would not be justifiable. Para 98-101: Paragraphs 98, 99 and 100 should be deleted and Para 101 to be reframed. Based on the audio/video evidence of conversation between Shri Rewati Raman Singh and the complainant BJP MPs, considering the unusual hour at night when Shri Rewati Raman Singh choose to visit the residence of Shri Argal, who was driven in the car by his son to the premises at 4, Ferozeshah Road, on the intervening night of July 21 and 22, 2008, the justification held out in the last sentence of the para that “In such a situation political confabulations were but natural” seems to be too illogical. Besides the impression sought to be given for the purpose of absolving Shri Rewati Raman Singh is untenable and self contradictory. On the one hand a case has been made out to suggest that Shri Ashok Argal and other BJP MPs were seeking help of Shri Rewati Raman Singh about assurance of ticket from the Samajwadi Party implying that the three BJP MPs were favour seekers and, if so, the obligation to visit the designated person who would dispose of such favour to them at any hour and at any corner of the world should have rested with these favour seekers, on the other hand the facilitator of favour disbursal i.e., Shri Rewati Raman Singh was seen visiting the favour seekers at wee hour to carry out “political confabulations” and that too after ascertaining that the requisite numbers needed to save the Govt. during voting next morning had already been managed. Considering this backdrop, the observation and the conclusions regarding the role played by Shri Rewati Raman Singh in the cash-for-vote episode do not appear to be sound. Therefore, the contents of Para 101 need to be reframed to express the following:— “Taking into consideration the totality of facts and circumstances of the matter, particularly Shri Rewati Raman Singh’s admission (as alluded to in Para 96) that “the requisite numbers were made up”, the sequence of events starting from his late-night visit on July 21, 2008 to Shri Ashok Argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road and visit of the whistle blowers next morning to Shri Amar Singh’s residence etc., reasonably and conclusively prove involvement of Shri Rewati Raman Singh as facilitator in the cash-for-vote deal.” Para 102: To be deleted. Para 103: The observation in this paragraph is irrelevant as it comprises of hypothetical presumptions. Hence, to be omitted. Para 106: In order to make the observation complete, the following may be inserted at the 9th line at page 83 after “Suhail Hindustani” and before “Surprisingly...”

114 “In the visuals in Tape 3, when the Zen car was approaching the premises at 27, Lodhi Estate, the “man in yellow shirt” was seen talking to uniformed guards of Shri Amar Singh posted at the gate and he was also called inside the gate of 27, Lodhi Estate just before the Zen car was seen leaving on 22 July 08.” The same man in yellow shirt re-emerged on the tape, in the company of Sanjeev Saxena, carrying the bag of currency notes into the residence of Shri Argal. Hence, the Committee comes to the conclusion that his man was indeed a member of Shri Amar Singh’s personal staff. Para 107: The concluding part of the paragraph may be reframed as under: “As per the remit of the Committee, the matter of inquiry is whether Shri Sanjeev Saxena delivered the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh; was there any proof of Shri Amar Singh having sent Shri Sanjeev Saxena with money at Shri Argal’s house? In quest of truth, the Committee relied on the sequence of events, audio-visual records thereof, besides taking cognizance of circumstantial evidence, and came to the conclusion that a close relationship existed between Shri Amar Singh, Shri Sanjeev Saxena and the man in yellow shirt.” Para 110. The observation made in concluding part of the paragraph citing about a findings of experts from NIMHANS should be omitted not only due to lack of its relevance but also due to the fact that no formal interaction with the experts of institution took place in course of the enquiry. The fact remains that investigating agencies continue to rely upon conducting narco tests on suspects more for clues for evidences for prosecution cases than anything else. Para 111 Para 113-114: Since “clinching evidences” of acts of such clandestine nature is not made available by its perpetrators easily even to be accessed by professional investigating agencies, what to speak of any Parliamentary Inquiry Committee bereft of any technical expertise, the conclusion sought to be drawn in these paragraphs to disregard even the most glaring proof of circumstantial evidences connecting Shri Reoti Raman Singh, Shri Amar Singh, Shri Sanjeev Saxena, including those recorded in the audio-visual devices, lacks sufficient logic. Therefore, the observation made in the concluding part of Para 114 may be reframed as under: “Although an audio recording of the conversations Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste alleged to have had with Shri Amar Singh on 22 July, 2008 at the latter‘s residence at 27, Lodhi Estate, could have provided clinching proof to the Committee to come to its conclusion about the veracity of the complaint dated 25th July, 2008, the Committee cannot remain oblivious to the very strong circumstantial evidences brought before it and also secured by it from examination of various witnesses.” Para 115: The fact that the car had tinted glasses is of no relevance at all to establish the journey of the complainant MPs to Shri Amar SIngh’s residence. The Committee has taken into account the independent affirmations in this regard by: (1) The complainants themselves; (2) Suhail Hindustani, who can be seen on the tape to be sitting on front seat of the car; and (3) Hashmat Ali, the owner and driver of the car. Indeed, the complainant MPs, journey to Shri Amar Singh’s house is also circumstantially established by the fact that Suhail is also seen in the next tape, along with the two MPs, in Shri Argal’s house where Shri Sanjeev Saxena, accompanied by his companion in yellow shirt (seen outside Shri Amar Singh’s house) delivered the money to the MPs.

115 The Committee has also taken into account the fact that the CNN-IBN tape showing the entry of the car into Shri Amar Singh’s residence has been cut and joined in such a manner that the persons sitting in the rear seats cannot be seen. Para 119: The conclusion drawn in para 119, on the basis of what has been stated in paras 116, 117 and 118, is a cover-up for Sanjeev Saxena’s close links with Shri Amar Singh. Since the Committee has been provided with sufficient credible proof of existence of intimate and clear link between Shri Amar Singh and Shri Sanjeev Saxena at the personal level, they should have been treated as substantial circumstantial evidence suggesting what had been stated in the complaint dated 25th July, 2008 by the MPs to be true. The contents of Para 119 need to be reframed to record these realities. Para 122: To be deleted. Para 123 (at p/94): The conclusion in the paragraph that there is no ‘conclusive’ proof against Shri Amar SIngh vis-a-vis the allegation made against him is wrong and untenable. It is in clear conflict with the observation of the Committee made inter alia in Para 108 wherein it is stated inter alia that “the deposition of Shri Sanjeev Saxena does not sound convincing by any stretch of imgination..” The foundation of the complaint that the inducement in the form of cash delivered by Shri Sanjeev Saxena as close confidant of Shri Amar SIngh on 22 July, 2008 at the residence of Shri Argal as token consideration for the three BJP MPs for abstaining from voting in the Confidence Motion would remain unaddressed by the Committee if such a clean chit is granted to Shri Amar Singh absolving him of any involvement in disregard to the facts and circumstances of the case. These facts are: (1) The conclusion that Sanjeev Saxena was working for, and acting on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, is borne out by (a) As late as on 20th July, 2008, he sent SMS invitations to members of the Press about the Press Conference of Shri Amar SIngh scheduled for that day; (b) He used to give Shri Amar Singh’s residence as his office address, including in letters seeking favours for himself; (c) As earlier mentioned in the report, the young man in yellow shirt, who is seen twice on tape outside Shri Amar Singh’s residence, can also be seen on tape accompanying Sanjeev Saxena into Shri Argal’s house carrying the money-bag; (d) On July 22, when Sanjeev Saxena brought the money to Shri Argal’s house to be given to the MPs, he can be seen on tape to be making telephone calls from his mobile to Shri Amar Singh’s residence. The fact that he was speaking to Shri Amar Singh is established by the transcript of the taped conversations between him and the MPs, and further substantiated by the Call Details Records (CDRs) of his mobile; (e) Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile calls from Shri Argal’s house at Ferozeshah Road to Shri Amar Singh’s house at Lodhi Estate can be established by the tower records of the mobile companies; (f) Sanjeev Saxena’s highly unsatisfactory deposition before the Committee, which made several members of the committee to demand a narco test on him. (2) The BJP MPs visit to Shri Amar Singh’s residence before the trust vote was facilitated by Shri Rewati Raman SIngh, a senior leader of the Samajwadi party. (3) The submission of post-dated and hence fraudulent tapes on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, to prove that Sanjeev Saxena was not acting at his behest. Indeed, after 22nd July Sanjeev Saxena was unavailable to anybody, including his friends in the media, except to Shri Amar Singh for recording the fraudulent tape;

116 Therefore, on the basis of all the evidence that has come to light, the Committee can come to one and only one conclusion: namely, that Sanjeev Saxena delivered the money to the BJP MPs on behalf of Shri Amar Singh. Paras 128, 129, 130, 131, 133 and 134 to be deleted. Paras 135-141 under the section “Issue of Influencing Members” to be deleted. CONCLUSIONS The non-consideration of the material evidence establishing Shri Amar Singh’s involvement in paying the money to complainant MPs through Sanjeev Saxena has not been adequately dealt with the Draft Report. This is a very serious lapse, which amounts to a deliberate cover-up of Shri Amar Singh’s culpability. If investigation by a specialized agency against Shri Sanjeev Saxena establishes that he came with the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, it would contradict the exoneration of Shri Amar Singh even before the investigation of Sanjeev Saxena is concluded. Therefore, the final report of the Committee must incorporate the following changes in the section on “Conclusions”. Para 142 (at pages 106-114). The Committee after taking into account the views and statements averred and evidences, to the extent adduced by witnesses before it, and the facts and circumstances of the matter under consideration and taking the constraints highlighted in paragraphs 84, 85, 86, 93, 110 and 111, in particular, arrive at the following conclusion:— (i) To be reframed as under: “Shri A.B. Bardhan, a senior Left leader of impeccable integrity, who literally set the cat amongst pigeons by saying in a public rally in Delhi on 14th July, 2008 that members were being paid astronomical sums as inducement to save the UPA Government during the Confidence Vote, drew attention to a serious act of political corruption that Parliament was about to witness. The Committee praises Shri Bardhan for sounding the alarm bell.” 142 (ii) The last three paras to be deleted and reframed as follows: “The Committee is convinced that Shri Rewati Raman Singh acted as a facilitator for persuading the BJP MPs to visit Shri Amar Singh’s residence so that they could, for some monetory consideration to be decided by Shri Amar Singh, either vote in favour of the Government or abstain from voting in Parliament on the day of Vote of Confidence on 22nd July.” 142 (iii) (contents from the 5th line of the para be substituted with the following): “There is prima facie suspicion that Shri Ahmed Patel, being an important leader of the ruling party, was working in close contact with Shri Amar Singh to save the Government, and was therefore involved in this episode, too. However, the Committee could not examine this aspect of the complaint in the absence of Call Detail Records (CDRs) and other records.” 142(iv) The Para should be reframed as follows: Based on all the documentary, oral and circumstantial evidence, the Committee has come to the conclusion that Shri Amar Singh was indeed the principal player in the Cash-for-votes episode, having sent money to the three BJP MPs through his trusted aide Sanjeev Saxena. He did so in order to induce opposition MPs to vote for the Government (or abstain themselves from voting)

117 so that the Government could be saved in the Motion of Confidence in the Lok Sabha on 22nd July. 142 (v)—142(xi): To be deleted. 142 (xii): As explained earlier in para 86, the Committee requests Speaker, Lok Sabha to refer the case of Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmed Patel to Chairman, Rajya Sabha, so that their involvement in the episode can be probed by the Ethics Committee, Rajya Sabha. 142 (xiii) The Committee concludes that there is ample and irrefutable evidence against Sanjeev Saxena for his role as the emissary of Shri Amar Singh, who carried and gave the money to the Three BJP MPs on behalf of Shri Amar Singh. 142 (xiv) To be deleted. All the paras 142-164 under the section “Observations” to be deleted. Para 165: To be retained. RECOMMENDATIONS Paras 166 and 167 to be deleted. The following to be added: (1) The Committee recommends Speaker, Lok Sabha to refer the cases of Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmed Patel to Chairman, Rajya Sabha, so that their involvement in this episode can be probed by the Ethics Committee, Rajya Sabha. (2) Para 168 to be retained.

118 „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë ∑§∞ø-yww, ªÊ¢fl ◊¢«UÙ‹Ë ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-~x ‚flÊ ◊¥, ◊ÊŸŸËÿ •äÿˇÊ ¡Ë ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê, Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë Áfl·ÿ— ww ¡È‹Ê߸ wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ ¬ŒÊ¸»§Ê‡Ê Á∑§∞ ª∞ ““flÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§ ’Œ‹ ¬Ò‚Ê”” ∑§Ê¢«U ◊¥ ªflÊ„UË– ◊„UÙŒÿ, ◊Ò¥ ªÊÁ¡ÿÊ’ÊŒ ◊¢ ∞∑§ ‚Ê◊ÊÁ¡∑§ •ı⁄U ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁÃ∑§ ∑§Êÿ¸∑§ûÊʸ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ ‚÷Ë ¡ÊÁÃÿÙ¥ •ı⁄U ‚◊ÈŒÊÿÙ¥ ∑§ ª⁄UË’ ‹ÙªÙ¥ πÊ‚∑§⁄U ’ëÔøÙ¥ ÃÕÊ ’Í…∏U ‹ÙªÙ¢ ∑§Ë ◊ŒŒ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ◊¥ ⁄U„UÃÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ “•Áπ‹ ÷Ê⁄UÃËÿ ◊ÊŸfl •Áœ∑§Ê⁄U ‚Á◊ÁÔ (v{y, ◊Ê‹ËflÊ«∏UË, ªÊÁ¡ÿÊ’ÊŒ) ∑§Ê ⁄UÊcÔ≈˛UËÿ ‚Áøfl ÷Ë „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ üÊË ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ê ŒÙSà „Í¢U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ wv ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª {.xÆ ’¡ ◊Ȥʂ ∞∑§ ¡M§⁄UË ∑§Ê◊ ∑§ Á‹∞ ◊⁄UË ∑§Ê⁄U ‹ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ– ¡’ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬Í¿UÊ ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U Áfl‡ÔflÊ‚ ◊à ‚ ‚¢’¢ÁœÃ ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU Á¡‚ ÿÍ.¬Ë.∞. ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ù wv-ww ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ „UÊÁ‚‹ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿÍ.¬Ë.∞. ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U Á¡‚ ’„ÈU◊à ¬˝ÊåÔà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •¬ŸË ‚ûÊÊ ∑§Ù ’øÊ∞ ⁄UπŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ë π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅÔà ∑§ ∑§Ê◊ ◊¥ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¢Ÿ ◊Ȥʂ ∑§„UÊ ““ß‚ ∑§Ê¢«U ∑§Ê ¬ŒÊ¸»§Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU”” •ı⁄U ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§Ë ’Êà ‚ ‚„U◊à „UÙ ªÿÊ– ©UŸ∑§Ë Ã⁄U„U ◊Ò¥ ÷Ë •◊Á⁄U∑§Ê ∑§ ⁄UÊcÔ≈˛U¬Áà ¡ÊÚ¡¸ ’È‡Ê ∑§Ù ◊È‚‹◊ÊŸÙ¥ ∑§Ê ŒÈ‡Ô◊Ÿ ◊ÊŸÃÊ „Í¢U •ı⁄U ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ¬˝œÊŸ ◊¢òÊË «UÊÚ. ◊Ÿ◊Ù„UŸ Á‚¢„U ÃÕÊ ¡ÊÚ¡¸ ’È‡Ê ∑§ ’Ëø ¬⁄U◊ÊáÊÈ ‚◊¤ÊıÃ ∑§ Áπ‹Ê»§ „Í¢U– wv ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª ⁄UÊà ◊¥ vÆ.ÆÆ ’¡ ◊Ò¥ •¬ŸË ‚»§Œ ⁄¢Uª ∑§Ë ◊ÊM§Áà ¡Ÿ «UË∞‹z‚Ë‚Ë |wv} ‹∑§⁄U ’‹fl¢Ã ⁄UÊÿ ◊„UÃÊ ‹Ÿ ¬„È¢Uø ªÿÊ ¡„UÊ¢ ‚È„ÒU‹ ◊⁄UÊ ß¢Ã¡Ê⁄U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ fl ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ë π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅÔà ∑§Ê¢«U ∑§Ù ©U¡Êª⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÷Ê⁄UÃËÿ ¡ŸÃÊ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ÃËŸ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ Á◊‹∑§⁄U ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ©Uã„UÙŸ ◊Ȥʂ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ‹∑§⁄U •¬Ÿ ¬Ë¿U-¬Ë¿U ‹Ë ◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ ¡„UÊ¢ ©Uã„¥U üÊË •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ‚ Á◊‹ŸÊ ÕÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ¬Ê߸– ◊Ò¥ „UÙ≈U‹ ∑§Ë ‹ÊÚ’Ë ◊¥ „UË ’Ò∆UÊ ⁄U„UÊ •ı⁄U ŒπÊ Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚ ∑§ ∑ȧ¿U ŸÃÊ•Ù¥ ‚ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ŒÙ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UÊ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ◊äÿ⁄UÊÁòÊ ◊¥ ‹ª÷ª vw.xÆ ’¡ ◊Ò¥ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∞∑§ flÁ⁄UcÔ∆U ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ Á‚¢„U ∑§Ù ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U (’‹fl¢Ã ⁄UÊÿ ◊„UÃÊ ‹Ÿ) ªÿÊ– ©Uã„¥U ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ∞∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ¬⁄U ‹ •Ê∞– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë ∑§Ê⁄U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ë¿U-¬Ë¿U ø‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË Á¡‚◊¢ ŒÙ ‹Ùª •ı⁄U ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ–

•ª‹ ÁŒŸ ww ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª ~.xÆ ’¡ ‚È’„U ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ◊Ȥʂ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ŒÙ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥—üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •ı⁄U üÊË »§ÇÔªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ë—∑§Ù ‹∑§⁄U ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ÃÕÊ ◊„UÊ‚Áøfl üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ w|, ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ¬⁄U ø‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ •¬ŸË ∑§Ê⁄U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U ⁄UπŸ ∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ– ◊Ò¥ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ù •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ë Á¬¿U‹Ë ‚Ë≈U ¬⁄U ’Ò∆UÊ∑§⁄U y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ‚ ‹∑§⁄U w|, ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ø‹ ¬«∏UÊ– ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ë •ª‹Ë ‚Ë≈U ¬⁄U ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ‚È„ÒU‹ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– ¡Ò‚ „UË „U◊ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¬„È¢Uø ‚È„ÒU‹ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ ©UÃ⁄U ªÿÊ •ı⁄U ©U‚Ÿ ª≈U ¬⁄U ¡Ê∑§⁄U ªÊ«¸U ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë– ªÊ«¸U Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§Ê⁄U •¢Œ⁄U ¡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ª≈U πÙ‹ ÁŒÿÊ– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ∑§ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚Œ •ı⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡UË ∑§ «˛UÊßZª M§◊ ◊¢ ¬„È¢Uø ª∞ •ı⁄U ◊Ò¢ ’Ê„U⁄U „UË •¬ŸË ∑§Ê⁄U ◊¢ ©UŸ∑§Ê ߢáÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ‹ªÊ– ‹ª÷ª •Êœ ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§ ’ÊŒ fl üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ’Ê„U⁄U •Ê∞– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ’„ÈUà „UË πÈ‡Ê Õ •ı⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ flʬ‚ ÉÊÈ‚Ÿ ‚ ¬„U‹ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ •ı⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ê ‡ÊÈÁ∑˝§ÿÊ •ŒÊ Á∑§ÿÊ– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§„UÊ “„U◊Ê⁄UÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ë¿U-¬Ë¿U „UË •Ê ¡Ê∞ªÊ–

119 ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ (¡Ù Á»§⁄U ‚ Á¬¿U‹Ë ‚Ë≈UÙ¥ ¬⁄U ’Ò∆U ª∞ Õ) •ı⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ù flÊÁ¬‚ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ¿UÙ«∏U ÁŒÿÊ– ‹ª÷ª vÆ-vz Á◊Ÿ≈U ’ÊŒ ◊Ò¢Ÿ üÊË •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ∞∑§ ‚»§Œ Á¡åÔ‚Ë ÉÊÈ‚Ã „ÈU∞ ŒπË Á¡‚◊¢ ŒÙ ÿÈfl∑§ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë Ÿ ª„U⁄‘U ⁄¢Uª ∑§Ë ŸË‹Ë ≈UË-‡Ê≈¸U ¬„UŸ ⁄UπË ÕË •ı⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë ¬Ë‹ ⁄¢Uª ∑§Ë ∑§◊Ë¡ ¬„UŸ „ÈU∞ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ Á∑§ fl ∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª Õ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ß‚ S≈U≈U◊¥≈U ◊¥ ¡Ù ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË „ÒU, fl„U ‚÷Ë ‚ø „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§ ‚◊ˇÊ ÃÕÊ •Ê¬∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ ÁŸÿÈÄÔà ¡Ê¢ø ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÊÁ¡⁄U „UÙŸ ∑§Ê ßë¿ÈU∑§ „Í¢U–

‚ÊŒ⁄U ÷flŒËÿ, „U./- („U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë)

120 MINUTES OF THE ELEVENTH SITTING OF THE COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE COMPLAINT MADE BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE MOTION OF CONFIDENCE

The Committee sat on Thursday, the 30 October, 2008 from 1130 hrs. to 1145 hrs. in Room No. ‘62’, Parliament House, New Delhi. PRESENT Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo — Chairman

MEMBERS 2. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra 3. Shri. C. Kuppusami 4. Shri Mohammad Salim 5. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav

SECRETARIAT 1. Shri. V.K. Sharma — Additional Secretary 2. Shri Ravindra Garimella — Deputy Secretary 3. Shri Ashok Sajwan — Deputy Secretary-II 4. Shri M.L.K. Raja — Under Secretary 2. The Committee took up the draft final Report for consideration and adoption. Some members wanted to give note of dissent for appending to the Report. The Chairman requested the members to give the notes latest by 5 pm on 6 November, 2008. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra, a member of the Committee handed over to the Chairman a note ‘comprising his suggestions and proposals’. He desired that in event of no further note being furnished by him by 6 November, 2008, the said note may be taken on record. Thereafter, the Committee adopted the Report, and authorised the Chairman to finalise the notes for appending to the Report and present the Report to the Hon’ble Speaker. (Verbatim record of the proceedings was kept.) (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

121 PROCEEDINGS OF SITTINGS Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 30 July, 2008 MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members and distinguished colleagues, I welcome you all to the first sitting of this Inquiry Committee, which, as you all know, has been constituted by hon. Speaker on the 26th of this month. We have been requested to give a Report by 11.00 am on the 11th of August, 2008. This is a customary, preliminary meeting which, I thought, we should have first to decide on the future course of action. You are all aware that the matter relates to complaints made by three of our colleagues, Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora regarding alleged offer of money to them with respect to voting for the Motion of Confidence in the House. Well, in the past Inquiry Committees that had been constituted, we have followed certain procedures and the procedures that have been adopted by the Privilege Committee also for investigation to determine whether there is any question of breach of privilege. I think this Inquiry Committee has been following the same precedence. So, normally, we hear the complainants first. Here, the complainants are our three colleagues from our House. So, I think first of all we can request the three colleagues to come. We can take their evidence and ask them to substantiate the complaints. As I see things, the main evidence that they have cited is also apparently a tape of video recording. So, probably, we could call them and take their evidence. May be, we can ask them to make a presentation or whatever they deem fit. From thereon, we can decide on how we should proceed based on the meeting, that interaction we have with our colleagues. We can also summon two or three others who have been named by the petitioners other than the Members of the Upper House at this stage because, as per the rules, Members from the Rajya Sabha or from any other House, either in a State Assembly or Council, cannot be summoned by us unless the House of which, their Members give leave for us to summon them. So, that may take time because these are Members of Rajya Sabha and the House will have to meet for that leave to be granted. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Can we ask the Speaker to refer these cases to the Rajya Sabha? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, we will certainly examine that matter. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: That can be done. ◊ÊŸ ‹ËÁ¡∞ „U◊ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ÿ„U ∑§„¥U– MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. You see, as we go ahead, if we feel we can record our findings and then request the Speaker to send it there, I do not think there should be any problem in that but we will have to go through the precedence and rules before we do that. Hon. Members, colleagues and friends, I would only like to assure you one thing that is a very- very sensitive matter which has come before us. All kinds of things have been appearing in the Press and Media. Well, you see, the foundations and roots of our polity, our democratic principles and dignity of this House itself are at stake. So, I can only assure you that I, on my part, will go basically and purely on merits of the case and what comes before us. Certainly, there is nothing to be partisan about matters like this, and you are all aware of the high traditions that in all Committees we have, across Party lines, ultimately come to certain conclusions which we have presented before the Houses of Parliament. I only would like to request all my distinguished colleagues, who are present here, and plead with you for your full cooperation in this matter 127 so that dispassionately and objectively we are able to give a Report which will enhance the dignity and prestige of our polity and also Parliament as an institution, and maintain the traditions that we have been following as far as Committees are concerned so far. With these words, I would like to invite suggestions and comments from other colleagues. Thank you. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ ¬„U‹ ÃËŸ ◊Òê’‚¸ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ©UŸ ÃËŸÙ¥ ‚ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄U∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ë ‚„ÍUÁ‹ÿà Œπ ‹Ë ¡Ê∞ Á∑§ fl ∑§’ •Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ∑§Ù߸ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ◊¥ ‚ ∞∑§ ‚ŒSÿ ∑§Ù „UÊ≈¸U •≈ÒU∑§ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, ‡ÊÊÿŒ ≈˛UÊ¢‚å‹Êã≈U‡ÊŸ flªÒ⁄U„U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– Ã’ ÷Ë ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ë ¡Ê∞, ¬ÃÊ ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄U ÁŒŸ ∑§Ê ≈UÊß◊ Œ ŒËÁ¡∞ so that they can come here before us. ŸÒøÈ⁄U‹Ë ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á»§⁄U Á¡UŸ∑§ Áπ‹Ê»§ fl ∑§êå‹¥≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©Uã„¥U ÷Ë ‚ÈŸŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ©U‚∑§Ê ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U Ãÿ ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– What about the CD? ¡„UÊ¢ ¡Ù ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊŸË „ÒU, Á¡‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á‹πÊ „ÒU– ‚Ë«UË ¬„U‹ ÁŒπÊ∞¢ª ÿÊ ©UŸ∑§ ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÁŒπÊ∞¢ª, ÿ„U Ãÿ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ Á∑§ÃŸÊ ∑§Ù⁄UÙ’Ù⁄‘U≈U „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU– ¬„U‹ ÷Ë Á¡ÃŸÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, ©U‚◊¥ ŒÙ-ÃËŸ ’Ê⁄U ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸ ÕË– •Ê¬ „U◊¥ ∑§Ê¬Ë ÷Ë Œ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U ÃÊÁ∑§ „U◊ ©U‚ Œπ ‹¥–

MD. SALIM: Mr. Chairman, Sir, by this time we have already developed a culture of team work and cooperation under your leadership and some sort of expertise also because unfortunately or fortunately in the Fourteenth Lok Sabha, though not similar, we have disposed of such kinds of complaints and decisions were also taken collectively. I think we do not work in a partisan manner in this Committee. Now, as you have rightly pointed out, this is a preliminary meeting where we just work out how we proceed. We have a set procedure for that also that we listen to the complainants and then based on that, we proceed. But I expected today that screening of the CD could have taken place because already the CD is there so that we can have also developed some idea, whether something is there or not. Now, the letter is there. So, the letter is evidence. That is referred to us. Last time also what we had is this. If we have the idea of what transpired there, then we can do some cross-examination. We can put questions. We can seek clarifications. Remember, for the ‘Operation Duryodhana’ and also earlier for that ‘Cash for query’, we have seen repeatedly those CDs and then developed some idea about the contents and the nature of complaints and then we started questioning and finding out if there is any loophole or not. Now, here, some more things are needed. There is a time shortage. Hon. Speaker Sahib has asked us to do this by 11th August. We have some constraint of time also. Simultaneously, we have to collect some more information also. For example, the complaint is there. Naturally, in the CD also, if you see, some car numbers are mentioned and some other names are also there. We can collect some information like in whose name the car is registered, who uses this car. If at all we feel that some information is required to arrive at a decision, that information is to be ready in hand. Otherwise, we start it again. This is what I expect from the Secretariat, as they have done this memorandum. Similarly, some issues can be sorted out under the directions of the hon. Chairman and some more related information is given to us and the supporting things so that it will be better to arrive at a consensus decision. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ∞¡¥‚Ë „ÒU? ∑Ò§‚ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª? Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– •’ ◊Ù’Êß‹ ¬⁄U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U •Ê ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ∑§Ù߸ ∞¡¥‚Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ¡Ù ©U‚ ≈˛U‚ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, as we go through our work, if necessity arises, we will cross the bridge at that time; we will ask the concerned agencies to provide that.

128 ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •÷Ë ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ¡Ù ’Êà ∑§„UË, ©U‚‚ „U◊ ‚„U◊à „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ÃËŸÙ¥ ∑§êå‹ŸÒ¥≈U˜‚ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ù ‚ÈŸŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á¡‚ ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§„UË ªÿË „ÒU, ©U‚ ÷Ë ŒπŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ∑§Ù⁄UÙ’Ù⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ¡Ù ∑§„¥Uª, ©U‚‚ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ‚Ë«UË Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë „ÒU, •ÊÁ⁄U¡Ÿ‹ „ÒU ÿÊ ∑§Ê¢≈U-¿UÊ¢≈U ∑§⁄U∑§ ŒË ªÿË „ÒU– ¬„U‹ „U◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ë ’ÊÃÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚ÈŸ ‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ ©U‚ ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ù Œπ¥ª ÃÙ „U◊¥ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ¡ÊÿªÊ– ß‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË •äÿˇÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÿÊ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •ÊÃË „ÒU, ÃÙ ©U‚ ÷Ë Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– •÷Ë ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∑§ß¸ øË¡¥ „Ò¥U, ¡Ò‚ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ¡Ù ∑§⁄‘¥U‚Ë ŸÙ≈U ÁŒπÊÿ ªÿ, fl ∑Ò§‚ ‹Êÿ ªÿ, ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ‹Êÿ ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ ªÿ •ÊÁŒ– ÿ ‚’ øË¡¥ „U◊¥ ‚Ë«UË ŒπŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ „UË ¬ÃÊ ‹ª¥ªË– ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ Ã∑§ ¡Ù ‚◊ÿ-‚Ë◊Ê ŒË „ÒU, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ„U ◊Ê◊‹Ê ’„ÈUà ‚¥‚ËÁ≈Ufl „ÒU– ÿ„U ◊Ê◊‹Ê ∞‚Ê „ÒU ¡Ù ßÃŸË ¡ÀŒË ‚ÊÚÀfl Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ •Ê¬∑§Ù S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ß‚‚ •Áœ∑§ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ë •ŸÈ◊Áà ‹ŸË ¬«∏UªË– ß‚◊¥ ßÃŸË ’ÊÃ¥ „Ò¥U Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù ©Uã„¥U ßãflS≈U˪≈U ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ ≈UÊß◊ ‹ª ¡ÊÿªÊ– ߟ ‚Ê⁄UË øË¡Ù¥ ∑§Ù äÿÊŸ ◊¥ ⁄UπÃ „ÈU∞ „U◊Ÿ ¬„U‹ ¡Ù ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U ∞«UÊÚå≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ‚ ß‚ ŒπŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU, Á«U‚∑§‡ÊŸ ∑§ Œı⁄UÊŸ, ‚Ë«UË ŒπŸ ∑§ Œı⁄UÊŸ •ª⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ‚’S≈¥UÁ‡Êÿ‹ ◊Ò≈UËÁ⁄Uÿ‹ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ÁSÕÁà •ÊÃË „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U „UÊ©U‚ ∑§Ù Á‹π¥ ÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà ∑§„¥U– ◊Ò¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ß‚ S≈U¡ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øË¡ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¡Ù ß‚ „UÊ©U‚ ∑§ ◊Òê’⁄U „Ò¥U, Á¡Ÿ∑§ ŸÊ◊ „Ò¥U ÿÊ •ãÿ ‹Ùª „Ò¥U ÿÊ Á¡Ÿ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, ©Uã„¥U ©U‚Ë ∑˝§◊ ◊¥ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊„UÙŒÿ, ◊Ò¥ ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë, ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ß‚ ⁄UÊÿ ‚ ‚„U◊à „Í¢U Á∑§ ‚’‚ ¬„U‹ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¡Ù ∑§ê¬‹ŸÒ¥≈U˜‚ „Ò¥U, Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ •¬ŸË ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ◊ÊŸŸËÿ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ Œ¡¸ ∑§Ë „ÒU, ¡Ù •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÷Ë •Ê ªÿË „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ê ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ‹ŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ÷Ë ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU– ß‚ ’Êà ‚ „U◊ ‚„U◊à „Ò¥U– »§¡flÊß¡ ß‚∑§ øÊ⁄U-¬Ê¢ø ÷ʪ „Ò¥U– „U◊¥ ¬Í⁄UË ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ù øÊ⁄U-¬Ê¢ø Á’ãŒÈ•Ê¥ ¬⁄U ∑§ã‚Ò¥≈˛U≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ∞∑§ •ÊÁ«UÿÙ- ÁflÁ«UÿÙ ‚Ë«UË „ÒU, ¡Ù ÷Ë »È§≈U¡ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU? ∑Ò§‚ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ß‚∑§ ¬Ë¿U ‹ªÊ, ∑Ò§‚ ©UŸ∑§Ë ∞ÁÄ≈UÁfl≈UË¡ ⁄U„UË¥, ß‚∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ÷Ë ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊ ¡Ù ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ‹¥ª •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ê ¡Ù »È§≈U¡ „Ò, ©UŸ∑§Ë ÃÈ‹ŸÊà◊∑§ S≈U«UË ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU ÃÊÁ∑§ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ Á∑§ ∑§„UŸ ◊¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ •ãÃ⁄U „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ë ¡Ù ÷Ë ÁflÁ«UÿÙ ‚Ë«UË „ÒU, ©U‚ ÖflÊߢ≈U‹Ë ŒπŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ¬Í⁄UË ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ë ÿ„UÊ¢ √ÿflSÕÊ ∑§⁄UÊ∑§⁄U Œπ¥– ß‚‚ •Ê¬‚ ∑§ ∑§ãfl‚¸‡ÊŸ ‚ •ÊÒ⁄U ÷Ë ∑§ß¸ Á’ãŒÈ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë •Ê¬‚ ◊¥ ÷Ë ⁄UÊÿ ’Ÿ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU– ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÖÿÍÁ⁄U‚Á«Ućʟ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ¡Ù ÃËŸ ∑§ê¬‹ŸÒ¥≈U˜‚ „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ë ∞∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ß‚ ‚¢Œ÷¸ ◊¥ ÿ„UÊ¢ •ÊÒ⁄U •ÊÿÊ „ÒU– ©UŸ‚ ÷Ë ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ‹ŸË „U٪˖ ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊¥ ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄U ÷ʪ ◊¥ ß‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ù ŒπŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ Á∑§ ¬Í⁄‘U ÉÊ≈UŸÊ∑˝§◊ ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ©UŸ∑§Ë ÷ÍÁ◊∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– •’ ŸÙ≈U ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑Ò§‚ ¬„È¢Uø ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ‚Ê…∏U Ÿı ’¡ ¡‹¬ÊŸ ∑§ ‚◊ÿ ŸÙ≈U Á◊‹Ã „Ò¥U– „U◊ •÷Ë ≈˛UŸ ‚ ‚Ëœ •Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ߟ ∑§Êª¡Ù¥ ∑§Ù ∆UË∑§ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡‹¬ÊŸ ∑§ ‚◊ÿ Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ ŸÙ≈U ¬˝Êåà „ÈU∞– øÊ⁄U ’¡ ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ¬≈U‹ ¬⁄U fl ŸÙ≈U •ÊÃ „Ò¥U– ‚Ê…∏U Ÿı ’¡ •ÊÒ⁄U øÊ⁄U ’¡ ∑§ ’Ëø ◊¥ flÙ≈U •ÊÚ»§ ∑§Ê¢»§Ë«Ò¥U‚, ¡Ù ÷Ë ÕÊ, ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ê ∑§„UÊ¢ •ÊÒ⁄U Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ◊Ífl◊Ò¥≈U „ÈU•Ê, ß‚∑§Ë ≈UÄŸË∑§‹ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ŸÙ≈U Á∑§Ÿ-Á∑§Ÿ „UÊÕÙ¥ ◊¥ ªÿ, Á∑§‚-Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ ŸÙ≈U •Êÿ, ∞∑§ „UË ’Ê⁄U ¬Ò‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ ªÿ ÿÊ ’Ê⁄UË-’Ê⁄UË ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ ªÿ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ßÃŸÊ ±ÿÍ¡ •◊Ê©¢U≈U „ÒU– ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÊ ∞∑§ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÁŸ∑§‹Ê, ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÁŸ∑§‹Ê, ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ wÆ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „UË ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ê ªÿÊ ÿÊ ∞∑§ „UçÃ ¬„U‹ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ê ªÿÊ? ¡Ò‚ •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ- ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊ ∞∑§ ‚åÃÊ„U ‚ „Ò¥U– „U◊Ÿ ß‚ ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ∑§Ù ŒÙ-ÃËŸ Á◊Ÿ≈U ŒπÊ „ÒU– ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ ¬„U‹ ‚ ß‚ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ– ©UŸ∑§Ë ŸÊ‹¡ ◊¥ ÕÊ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ äÿÊŸ ÕÊ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ©U‚∑§Ê ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ‚’Íà „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ ŒπÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ ≈U¬ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ÄÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– „U◊¥ ÁflÁ«UÿÙ ∑§Ê ∑ȧ¿U •¢‡Ê ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ©U‚‚ ∑ȧ¿U •ı⁄U ’ÊÃÙ¥ ∑§Ê ÷Ë πÈ‹Ê‚Ê „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ßÃŸÊ sÔ¡ •◊Ê©¢U≈U ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ◊¥ ÁŸ∑§‹Ê, Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹Ê, ŸÙ≈U˜‚ ∑§ Ÿê’⁄U ÷Ë „UÙ¥ª– fl ŸÙ≈U Á∑§‚ S≈U≈U ‚ •Êÿ, ¬„U‹ Á∑§‚∑§ „UÊÕ ◊¥ ŸÙ≈U ªÿ, Á»§⁄U Á∑§‚∑§ „UÊÕ ◊¥ ŸÙ≈U ∑§Ê ◊Ífl◊Ò¥≈U „ÈU•Ê, Á∑§‚ ŸÙ≈U ∑§Ê ∑§„UÊ¢ ¬Á⁄UøÊ‹Ÿ „ÈU•Ê, ß‚ ÷Ë ŒπŸÊ „U٪ʖ 129 øıÕË ’Êà ‚é¡ÒÄ≈U •ÊÚ»§ ÖÿÍÁ⁄U‚Á«Ućʟ ∑§Ë „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ ¡„UÊ¢ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU– ÿ„U ‚é¡ÒÄ≈U ≈ÍU ÖÿÍÁ⁄U‚Á«Ućʟ „ÒU– ÿÁŒ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ˇÊòÊÊÁœ∑§Ê⁄U ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ÃÙ ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ¬˝Êåà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U ÄÿÊ Ã⁄UË∑§ „UÙ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? ©U‚◊¥ ‚◊ÿ ‹ªªÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ∑§Ê»§Ë ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ‹ŸË „U٪˖ ‡ÊÊÿŒ ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ≈UÄŸË∑§‹ ’Êà „ÒU Á∑§ Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ „ÈU•Ê– ÿ„U ÷Ë ¬˝◊ÊáÊ ∑§Ê ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– „U◊¥ ŒÍœ ∑§Ê ŒÍœ •ÊÒ⁄U ¬ÊŸË ∑§Ê ¬ÊŸË ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ŸÊ „ÒU ß‚Á‹∞ ß‚◊¥ ≈UÄŸË∑§‹ ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ∑§Ë ÷Ë ¡M§⁄Uà „ÒU– ÿ„U ’„ÈUà ‚¢flŒŸ‡ÊË‹ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ ¡Ê¢ø „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ß‚ ¡Ê¢ø ◊¥ ¡ÀŒ’Ê¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ◊ÊŸŸËÿ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ê •ÊŒ‡Ê vv •ªSà ∑§ Á‹∞ „ÒU– „U◊ ‹Ùª ©U‚ »§Ê‹Ù ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ÄÿÊ „U◊ ÁŸc∑§·¸ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÷Ë ÿ„U ÁfløÊ⁄UáÊËÿ ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU Á∑§ Ÿı ÁŒŸ ∑§ ÷ËÃ⁄U ‚Ê⁄UË ≈UÄŸË∑§‹ ¡Ê¢ø, ‚Ê⁄UË ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ¬˝Á∑˝§ÿÊ ∑§Ù ¬Í⁄UÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– ÄÿÊ Ã’ Ã∑§ „U◊ ‚Ê⁄UË ß㻧Ù◊¸‡ÊŸ ∑§‹ÒÄ≈U ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? ¡Ù „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÖÿÍÁ⁄U‚Á«Ućʟ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥, ©U‚ ÖÿÍÁ⁄U‚Á«Ućʟ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ß‚Ë ‚◊ÿ-‚Ë◊Ê ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ¬˝Êåà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ flÒ∑§ÁÀ¬∑§ ⁄UÊSÃÊ ÷Ë „ÒU? „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÿ ‚Ê⁄‘U Áfl·ÿ „Ò¥U ß‚Á‹∞ ߟ ¬⁄U ÁfløÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Êÿ– ÿ„U ª¢÷Ë⁄U Áfl·ÿ „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ‚Ê⁄UË ‚È⁄UˇÊÊ Ÿ≈Ufl∑¸§ ∑§Ù ÃÙ«∏U∑§⁄U ßÃŸË sÔ¡ ◊ÊòÊÊ ◊¥ ¬Ò‚ •Ê ªÿ– ÿ„U •‹ª ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ’„ÈUà ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ „ÒU– ÿÁŒ ß‚Ë ‚È⁄UˇÊÊ ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ •ÊÒ⁄U øË¡ •Ê ªÿË „UÙÃË, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚¢‚Œ ¬⁄U •Êâ∑§flÊÁŒÿÙ¥ ∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ «UÊÿ⁄‘UÄ≈U „U◊‹Ê „UÙ øÈ∑§Ê „ÒU– ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄U ‚È⁄UˇÊÊ∑§Á◊¸ÿÙ¥ Ÿ ’«∏UË ’„UÊŒÈ⁄UË ‚ ◊È∑§Ê’‹Ê ∑§⁄U∑§, •¬ŸË ¡ÊŸ Œ∑§⁄U „U◊Ê⁄UË ⁄UˇÊÊ ∑§Ë– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •ª⁄U Á’ŸÊ øÁ∑¢§ª ∑§ ßÃŸÊ ’«∏UÊ ∞◊Ê©Uá≈U, ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬∞ •Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ¡ª„U ∑§Ù߸ ŒÍ‚⁄UË øË¡ ÷Ë •Ê ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU– ÿ„U ÁSÕÁà •Ê ‚∑§ÃË ÕË Á∑§ ‡ÊÊÿŒ ‚ŒŸ ◊¥ ‡ÊÙ∑§ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ Ÿ ’øÊ „UÙÃÊ– ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊¥ ß‚∑§ ‚Ê⁄‘U ¬˝Ù¡ ∞¢«U ∑§Êã‚ ¬⁄U ÁfløÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ‚ Á‹¢Ä«U Á¡ÃŸË ÷Ë ‚¢÷ÊflŸÊ∞¢ „Ò¥U, ¡Ò‚ ‚È⁄UˇÊÊ∑§Á◊¸ÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë øÍ∑§ •ÊÁŒ ‚÷Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§ ŒÊÿ⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê∞¢ª– ß‚‚ Á⁄U‹≈U«U Á¡ÃŸ ÷Ë ◊„U∑§◊ „Ò¥U, ¡Ù ÷Ë ß‚∑§ ¬⁄U√ÿÈ ◊¥ •ÊÃ „Ò¥U, ‚÷Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§ Á’ãŒÈ „Ò¥U– ß‚Á‹∞ ßÃŸË √ÿʬ∑§ ¡Ê¢ø ßß ∑§◊ ‚◊ÿ ◊¥ ∑Ò§‚ „UÙ ¬Ê∞ªË, ß‚ ¬⁄U ÷Ë ÁfløÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ◊Ò¥ ÿ„UË ÁŸflŒŸ ∑§M¢§ªÊ Á∑§ ßß ∑§◊ ‚◊ÿ ◊¥ ßß ‚Ê⁄‘U ∞Áfl«¥U‚¡ ∑§Ù ∑§‹Ä≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ∑§Á∆UŸ „U٪ʖ ¡Ù ÷Ë ‚◊ÿ ‹ª, ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ß‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ù ’„ÈUà ‹¢’Ê ‹ ¡ÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •ª⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ⁄UÊSÃÊ ß‚Ë ∑§◊ ‚◊ÿ ◊¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ê ¡Ê∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ Á∑§ ◊¥’‚¸ ∑§Ë ËʇÊË ‡ÊÈM§ ∑§⁄U ŒË ¡Ê∞ ÃÙ ÿ„U M§À‚ ∑§ Áπ‹Ê»§ „ÒU– „U◊ ‹Ùª „U⁄U ⁄UÙ¡ ßß ¬¬‚¸ ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÃ „Ò¥U– ◊¥’‚¸ •ª⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øË¡ ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ©U‚∑§Ë ¬„U‹ ËʇÊË „UÙŸË øÊÁ„U∞, ◊Ò¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÿ„U ’«∏UÊ ª‹Ã Á¬˝Á‚«¥U≈U „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– „U◊ ‚’ fl„UË øË¡¥ ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÃ „Ò¥U Á¡Ÿ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà ¬«∏UÃË „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ËʇÊË ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U, ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ßß ’«∏U ’ÒÇ‚ ∑§Ù ‹ÊŸÊ ∑Ò§‚ ∞‹Ê™§ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ Á‚ÄÿÙÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹Ù¥ Ÿ øÒ∑§ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– Á‚ÄÿÙÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹ ◊¥’‚¸ ∑§Ù øÒ∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë, ◊⁄‘U ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê •Ê‡Êÿ ∑ȧ¿U •ÊÒ⁄U „ÒU– ÿÁŒ ß‚∑§Ë ¡ª„U ∑ȧ¿U •ÊÒ⁄U ‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞ „UÙÃ ÃÙ ÄÿÊ „UÙÃÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Prof. Malhotra, that is only a suggestion made by the hon. Member. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ∞∑§ ‚¡‡ÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ÿ„U ∑§Ù߸ ÁŸc∑§·¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •ª⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ‚Ê◊ÊŸ ßÃŸË sÔ¡ ◊ÊòÊÊ ◊¥ ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ë ¬≈U‹ ¬⁄U •ÊŸ ‹ªªÊ ÃÙ ÄÿÊ „U٪ʖ ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÁŸÿ◊Êfl‹Ë Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ ß‚∑§ Á‹∞ ¬˝ÊflœÊŸ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ÿ ‚Ê⁄‘U Á’¢ŒÈ ß‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§ ŒÊÿ⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê∞¢ª–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav, thank you very much. This is a suggestion made by the hon. Member and we will record it. Prof. Malhotra, we will discuss it later at an appropriate time. Basically, I think all of us are agreed upon that first of all, we have to take evidence of our three colleagues, who are the petitioners. 130 SECRETARY-GENERAL: Would you like to see the CDs first? MR. CHAIRMAN: No. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¬„U‹ ÃÙ ∑¢§å‹Ÿ¥≈U˜‚ ∑§Ê ∞Áfl«¥U‚ „UÙªÊ, Ã’ ‚Ë«UË Œπ¥ª Á¡‚‚ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬ÃÊ ‹ª ¡Ê∞ªÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: I just wanted to assure everybody over here that just due to the constraint of time which the hon. Speaker has given, we shall not hurry the report through just to beat the time frame that has been put before us. If the time is not enough, certainly we will all agree and request for more time. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— vv ÁŒŸÙ¥ ◊¥ ÃÙ „UÙ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ ÿ„UË ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U, ÿÁŒ ߢ‚Ê»§ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ÿ„U ßß ‚◊ÿ ◊¥ ‚¢÷fl Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¡ÁS≈U‚ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ≈UÊß◊ øÊÁ„U∞–

MD. SALIM: The time was given up to 11.08.08 because the Parliament was supposed to meet on 11.8.08, Since now the Parliament is not going to meet on 11.8.2008, Chairman can seek more time. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚÷Ë ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ÿ„UË ⁄UÊÿ „ÒU Á∑§ ßÃŸË ¡ÀŒË ◊¥, ¿U— ÿÊ ‚Êà ÁŒŸÙ¥ ◊¥ ß‚ ¬Í⁄UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ÄÿÊ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ∑§Ê◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ •ãÿ ’„ÈUà ‚ ∑§◊ „Ò¥U, „U◊ ‹Ùª ∑§◊≈UË ¿UÙ«∏U∑§⁄U •Ê∞ „Ò¥U–

MD. SALIM: But we should get to the bottom of the truth. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: That is true. MR. CHAIRMAN: That is precisely what I am trying to say. Just to keep the time-limit, I am not going to hurry through this at all. That, all of us will decide. Let us now proceed with this aspect very clear in our minds that if it is not possible to give our report up to 11.08.08, it will be some other date. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Hon. Chairman can always seek extension of time. MR. CHAIRMAN: Absolutely. I can assure you this much that in no case is the report going to be written in a hurried manner just because of time constraint that has been put before us. We will request for and get whatever extension of time is required. Prof. Malhotra, we have to take the evidence of these three Members. Now, Md. Salim has also put that very crucial are these recordings of the tapes because apparently from the petitions that are there before us, the main evidence is these tapes. If you all agree, in another one or two days, we may take the evidence of these Members. If one Member has suffered heart attack, at least a colleague of ours from the other two can come and give evidence. We can take his evidence. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We may do it on Monday. MR. CHAIRMAN: On Monday, of the three, those who are available will come. We can also ask the CNN-IBN people to come with five DVD tapes on the same day. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚◊-«U Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UÁπ∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ‚◊-«U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÁÀ∑§ •ª‹ ÁŒŸ ÿÊ ∞∑§-ŒÙ ÁŒŸ ¿UÙ«∏U∑§⁄U ’È‹Êß∞– ß‚ ∑§fl‹ ¬Ê¢ø-‚Êà ÁŒŸ ◊¥ „UË πà◊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ß‚ ‚Ùø ‚ ∑§Ê◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ªÊ–

131 MR. CHAIRMAN: While you will appreciate the fact that I do not want to finish this in a hurry, there is also lot of expectation from the people as this issue has been hyped up. So, I do not want the media or the Press to write or feel that we are deliberately delaying this process or pushing it under the carpet. I do not want to give the impression also. Therefore, it will be better if initially one or two meetings can take place. After that, it will depend on the evidence. That is my only request. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— øÊ⁄U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚Ù◊flÊ⁄U „ÒU, ¬„U‹ øÊ⁄U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á»§⁄U ¿U„U-‚Êà ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— øÊ⁄U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊Ê⁄UË Á◊‚-∑¢§«UÄ≈U flÊ‹ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª „ÒU– ©U‚ ÁŒŸ „U◊ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ◊ËÁ≈¢UÇ‚ ⁄Uπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ∞∑§ ◊ÊÁŸZª ◊¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ∑§Ù ŒÙ¬„U⁄U ◊¥ ⁄Uπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— vv.xÆ ’¡ ∑§Ê ≈UÊß◊ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: We may have this meeting at 11.30 a.m. On 7th, we can have it in the afternoon because tapes may take a long time. MD. SALIM: Members will give evidence and we will also view tapes. Will it be in one session or two sessions? PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We may view tapes on 7th. MR. CHAIRMAN: No tapes will be viewed on that day. We may view the tapes on another day. MD. SALIM: What happened in ‘Operation Duryodhan’ is that we had gone through the video tapes and copies were given to the Secretariat also. MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to see the tapes before calling the MPs? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •ª⁄U „U◊¥ ©U‚∑§Ë ∞∑§ ∑§Ê¬Ë Á◊‹ ¡Ê∞ ÃÙ „U◊ ©U‚ •ë¿UË Ã⁄U„U Œπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ©U‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU–

SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, copies of the tapes were given to the hon. Speaker by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai. Those tapes are in my custody. There are seven tapes. MD. SALIM: What will be the total duration? MR. CHAIRMAN: On Monday, why do we not see the tapes first? ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •¬Ÿ ∑§‹ËÇ‚ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∞¢ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ≈U¬ ‚Êà •ªSà ∑§Ù ŒÁπ∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¬„U‹ ≈Uå‚ ∑§Ù •Ê¬ øÊ⁄U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •ª⁄U „U◊ ≈Uå‚ ∑§Ù ¬„U‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Œπ¥ª, ÃÙ ©UŸ‚ ‚flÊ‹ ∑Ò§‚ ¬Í¿¥Uª Á∑§ ÄÿÊ „ÈU•Ê •ãÿÕÊ ≈Uå‚ ŒπŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ©UŸ‚ ŒÈ’Ê⁄UÊ ¬Í¿UŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„UË ∆UË∑§ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ≈U¬ ŒÁπ∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ’„ÈUà ‚Ë ’ÊÃ¥ „U◊¥ ©U‚‚ Á◊‹ ¡Ê∞¢ªË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¬„U‹ ©UŸ∑§Ù øÊ⁄U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚Êà ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ≈Uå‚ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á»§⁄U •Êª ∑§Ê ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U Ãÿ ∑§⁄U ‹¥ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU–

132 ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ŒÍ‚⁄UË ∑§◊≈UË ÃÙ ∑§≈UÊ⁄UÊ flÊ‹Ë ∑§◊≈UË „ÒU? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚∑§Ù ÃÙ „U◊Ÿ flÒ‚ „UË ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©U‚◊¥ ŒÙ-ÃËŸ øË¡¥ „Ò¥U– Á◊‚-∑¢§«UÄ≈U flÊ‹Ê ∞¡¥«UÊ Á«U»˝¥§≈U „ÒU– „U◊¥ ©U‚∑§Ë ÷Ë Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ŒŸË „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚∑§Ù ’ÊŒ ◊¥ Œ Œ¥ª, ©U‚∑§Ë ¡ÀŒË ÄÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ◊⁄UË ∞∑§ •Ê¬ÁûÊ „ÒU– ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ê ©Ug‡ÿ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ ‚ìÊÊ߸ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢Uø, ∑¢§å‹Ÿ ∑§Ë ‚ìÊÊ߸ ÿÊ Á¡‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑¢§å‹Ÿ ∑§Ë ªÿË „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ë ‚ìÊÊ߸, ©U‚ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢Uø– „U◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÒU, Á»§⁄U ÷Ë „U◊¥ ŸÙ≈U ŒπŸ ∑§Ù Á◊‹Ê, fl„U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÿÊ, ∑Ò§‚ •ÊÿÊ ©U‚∑§Ë ÷Ë ‚ìÊÊ߸ øÊÁ„U∞– ∑¢§å‹Ÿ ∑§ ‹≈U‚¸ „U◊¥ Á◊‹ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ÊÕ-„UË-‚ÊÕ ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸ ∑§Ê ‹≈U⁄U „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬„U‹ ÁŒŸ, wx ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¬Ê¢ø ≈U¬ ÁŒ∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ’ÊŒ ◊¥, w{ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ŒÙ •ãÿ ≈U¬ ÁŒ∞– ∑¢§å‹Ÿ¥≈U˜‚ ∑§Ù ¡Ù ’Ù‹ŸÊ ÕÊ, fl„U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊¥ Á‹Áπà ◊¥ ÁŒ∞ „Ò¥U, ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ »§Œ¸⁄U Ä‹ÒÁ⁄UÁ»§∑§‡Êã‚ „U◊ ◊Ê¢ª ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„U „U◊ Á∑§‚ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ◊Ê¢ª¥ª? Á¬¿U‹ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ∑§Êá«UÙ¥ ◊¥ „U◊Ÿ ¬„U‹ ≈U¬ Œπ øÈ∑§ Õ, øÊ„U ’Ê„U⁄U „UÙ ÿÊ øÊ„U ∑§◊≈UË ◊¥ ⁄U„UÊ „UÙ– ©U‚‚ „U◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ê ∑ȧ¿U •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ Á◊‹ ªÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U∑§Ë∑§Ã ÄÿÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊Ÿ ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿U Õ– •÷Ë ÃÙ „U◊ ¡Ù „U◊¥ ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ∑§Ë ªß¸ „ÒU, ¡Ù ¬òÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ¬…∏U∑§⁄U „UË ‚◊¤Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ’Ê∑§Ë „U◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ¬„U‹ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ ≈U¬ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU, Ã’ „U◊ •ë¿UË Ã⁄U„U ‚ ÃçÃË‡Ê ∑§⁄U∑§ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ¬„U‹ ÷Ë „U◊ ß‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ‚ ŸÃË¡ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø Õ– ß‚ ’Ê⁄U ÷Ë ∞∑§ ŸÃË¡ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø ß‚Á‹∞ ¡Ù ¬„U‹ „U◊Ÿ Ã⁄UË∑§Ê •¬ŸÊÿÊ ÕÊ, fl„U •’ ÷Ë •¬ŸÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÿ„U „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ ¬„U‹ fl„U ≈U¬ ’Ê„U⁄U ÁŒπÊ ŒË ªß¸ ÕË, ‚Ë∑˝§≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË ß‚Á‹∞ ‚Ê⁄UÊ ◊Ê◊‹Ê ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ÿÊ ÃÙ ß‚∑§Ë ∑§ÊÁ¬ÿÊ¢ ∑§⁄UÊ∑§⁄U „U◊ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù Œ Œ¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§„U ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê∞ Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ‚ŒSÿ ’Ê„U⁄U Ÿ ÁŒπÊ∞–

MD. SALIM: Now, we have technology available with us with the help of which they cannot be copied again. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Malhotra, I would like to suggest that let us see the tapes ourselves over here on 4th August. They will come here and show it to us. Thereafter, we will call our colleagues. Further, if required, copies will be given to the hon. Members of this Committee. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ •Ê¬ÁûÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ¬„U‹ Œπ ‹¥ ÿÊ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ Œπ¥–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Malhotra, I think that the hon. Speaker had said very clearly that we can adopt whatever procedure we want to adopt. üÊË ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚◊ÿ ’…∏UÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ’Ù‹¥ª, ‹Á∑§Ÿ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ¡Ù ◊Ÿ«U≈U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§⁄U ‹¥, ¡ÀŒË „UÙ ‚∑§ ÃÙ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ßÃŸË ¡ÀŒË „UÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Ê∞ªÊ– We know that we will not in hurry. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have already assured you on that point. üÊË ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á»§⁄U ÷Ë ∞‚Ê ‹ª •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ê⁄UË Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ÿ„U ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê „UÙŸË øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ „U◊ ß‚ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§Ù ¡ÀŒË ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– øÊ⁄U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ≈U¬ Œπ ‹¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Êà ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹¥–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Salim, I think that we will see the tapes on 4th, and then on 5th or 6th or 7th, whenever you all feel it convenient, we will call our colleagues. If it is in the morning session, then we will have to sit from 1000 hours or 1030 hours. MD. SALIM: What would be the duration of those tapes? SECRETARY-GENERAL: It may be for around one hour or so.

133 MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, then let us meet at 11 o’clock.

üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ≈U¬ ŒπŸ ◊¥ ‚◊ÿ ‹ªªÊ– It will take time. MR. CHAIRMAN: I believe that everybody is agreeable that on Monday, 4th August at 11 o’clock we will ask the CNN-IBN people to come before the Committee with all their tapes and presentation. MD. SALIM: No, the tapes are with us. Our own Lok Sabha TV experts are there, and they will show it to us. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©Uã„¥U ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU– ©UŸ∑§ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U⁄U ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∞¢ª Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ ªÿÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÄÿÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, ÿ„U ¬ÃÊ ø‹– üÊË ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ≈U¬ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ „Ò¥U, „U◊ fl„U ߢ≈U⁄UŸ‹Ë Œπ¥ª, Á»§⁄U ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿¥Uª–

SECRETARY-GENERAL: You will get an idea by watching these tapes about the sequence of events. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ ©UŸ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∞¢ª, ÃÙ „U◊¥ ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ ¬ÃÊ „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ ≈U¬ •ÊÁ⁄U¡Ÿ‹ „Ò¥U, ∞Á«U≈U«U „Ò¥U ÿÊ «UÊÄ≈U«¸U „Ò¥U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will have to question them also. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¬„U‹ ߢ≈U⁄UŸ‹Ë Œπ ‹¥ª–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– øÊ⁄U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ≈U¬ Œπ¥ª, ‚Êà ∑§Ù ©Uã„¥U ’È‹Ê∞¢ª– Would you like to decide the date on which we will call the CNN-IBN people? On 7th August, we can take the evidence of the three colleagues, and then call the CNN-IBN people. This Committee will sit on 4th, 7th and 11th at 11 o’clock to discuss this issue. MD. SALIM: If necessary, the Committee will sit longer. MR. CHAIRMAN: In the meantime, as mentioned by my colleague, please try and verify as to in whose name the car is registered with the help of the registration number. Mr. Secretary- General, if you can ascertain the facts regarding this issue. MD. SALIM: We would like to know the particulars about the person in whose name the vehicle was registered, and the particulars of the driver who was driving the vehicle. MR. CHAIRMAN: If you can also ascertain if there is any seal or stamp on those bank-notes recovered by us. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, those notes are in my custody, and I will open it only in the presence of the hon. Members. MR. CHAIRMAN: On 7th August, we will call our colleagues, and after that, on 11th August, we will call the CNN-IBN people. Thank you very much all of you. MD. SALIM: Sir, so much interest is generated on that money, but that money is not going to generate any interest. The Committee, then, Adjourned.

134 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 4 August, 2008 MR. CHAIRMAN: I welcome hon. Members and distinguished colleagues to this meeting. Today’s meeting has been basically called to view the tapes which had been deposited with the hon. Speaker. Originally, only five tapes were provided by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai of CNN, IBN-7 channel. Later on, there were two more tapes which were submitted. So, in all there are seven tapes. I think it will be better if we view these tapes in a large TV screen which will come within ten minutes from now. While we wait for that, I may mention here that yesterday I was out of station. I came back in the night. On my coming back, I found that there was a sealed cover in my residence sent by Shri Kulaste and Shri Ashok Argal. I have got those sealed covers here with me. That is only a transcript, not backed by any CD or DVD. At a later stage, after viewing these tapes, I think that may also be circulated to the Members. But we will do it together with this transcript and after we get the other transcript also. After viewing these tapes, we can decide on the next meeting and at what time it should be called and appropriately we can proceed. MD. SALIM: There are two or three things that I want to say. One is that there are seven tapes. It will do a great benefit to the Committee if all these tapes are given some codes like numbers or alphabets, like a, b, c, d etc. so that it will be easier for Members to refer back to the tapes. Second is the duration of each cassette. It should be given. Thirdly, from a letter written by Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, I found that five tapes were submitted to the Speaker on 23rd July, 2007. Later on, after three days, another two tapes were submitted. So, which are the five tapes which were given earlier? MR. CHAIRMAN: There are seven tapes in all, as I mentioned. Five were submitted initially and two subsequently. The tapes have already been appropriately numbered and the duration of each tape is also given. As far as transcripts given by hon. Members to me are concerned, there is no DVD or CD to back them up. Let us get everything and then let us listen to Mr. Rajdeep Sardesai also. Our Secretariat people have transcribed the tapes. The CNN, IBN-7 channel has not provided us with any transcript. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, ◊Òê’‚¸ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¡Ù ≈˛UÊ¢ÁS∑˝§å≈U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U ∑§⁄UflÊ ŒËÁ¡∞–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ◊Òê’‚¸ Ÿ ¡Ù ≈˛UÊ¢ÁS∑˝§å≈U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§Ù߸ «UËflË«UË •ÕflÊ ‚Ë«UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– It is just a transcript. So, we will do it together along with these transcripts. Ultimately, we have to call people from CNN, IBN-7 channel also to cross examine them. Then, we will circulate it. (DVD was played) ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •’ „U◊ »§S≈¸U ߢS≈UÊ‹◊¥≈U ∑§Ë ‹ÊS≈U ≈U¬ Œπ¥ª–

(DVD was shown) ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚ ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU? ‚¢ÿÈÄà ‚Áøfl— ◊„UÙŒÿ, ß‚◊¥ flËÁ«UÿÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, Á‚»¸§ ∞∑§ Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§Ë •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚∑§á«U ߢS≈UÊ‹◊¥≈U flËÁ«UÿÙ ÁŒπÊß∞–

(DVD was shown) 137 ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ß‚ ÕÙ«∏UÊ ‚Ê Á⁄UflÊßá«U ∑§ËÁ¡∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚ ‚»§Œ ∑§¬«∏U flÊ‹ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ù Á»§⁄U ‚ ÁŒπÊß∞– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ß‚ ¡Í◊ ∑§⁄U∑§ ÁŒπÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– •ÚÊÁ»§‚⁄U, ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê— ¡Í◊ ∑§Ë »§Á‚Á‹≈UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •Ê¬ •Êª ø‹Êß∞–

(DVD was shown)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Kuppusami, we would get it translated into English and send it to you.

There are 3 more CDs which have come to the Speaker’s office—two from Ms. Uma Bharati and one from Shri Amar Singh. They are here with us.

MD. SALIM: The Committee has started its work on the basis of the complaint by three MPs. In this complaint the reference of other Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha MPs and other circumstances are there. Then, the reference of the CNN-IBN officially. The matter was put to us and it is before us. The CNN-IBN has sent us these CDs which today we are viewing. The CNN-IBN has sent these because as per the complaint the recording was done by the CNN-IBN. I intend to see whatever materials we received, the same has to be circulated to the Members. We would see it. When we last met, we discussed that we would view these CDs given by CNN-IBN, which we have viewed for the last 2 hours.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Salim, before I could complete, you took over the mike. I am sorry. It was not my intention to show those videos. I had not proposed it. I am sorry. You snatched the proposal. I never made the proposal and I just said that there are three CDs which were sent to the hon. Speaker—two were sent by Ms. Uma Bharati and one was sent by Shri Amar Singh. Once the Committee seized of a particular matter, I know that we cannot digress and take any evidence that comes to us directly. This has come from the Speaker’s office. I am not suggesting that we go through it now at all. That was not my suggestion or intention at all.

Let me also say that subsequently some documents were delivered to my house by the petitioners, three colleagues yesterday, which I am going to circulate to all of you. In page 15, Shri Kulaste, Shri Argal, and Shri Bhagora have stated, and I quote: Ms. Uma Bharati released the CD after meeting Shri Amar Singh. Both of them should be summoned before this Committee. So, this is something which has come to me from the petitioners. Nothing I am suggesting. Of course, the Committee would decide and take note of this and decide it at a later date. But it is my duty to make it as transparent as possible. I do not want to jump the gun. I do not want to force anything on any hon. Member of this Committee. Since it has come to the Speaker’s office and has been forwarded to us, it is my bounden duty to inform you all that we have these three tapes. Whatever or not we will see it or go through it, we would decide at a later convenient date.

This letter is of course addressed to me.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We do not want to delay it also.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I do not want the impression to go that we are trying to delay this deliberately by anyway and at the same time, just to meet the time frame, we are not going to hurry things without going into depths of all the facts and evidence that are there before us.

138 We have next meeting on the 7th. We have decided in the last meeting that we would ask our three colleagues to come and substantiate the evidence and Members can ask the questions. I am told from hon. colleague, Prof. Malhotra that one of them had a by-pass. It is all right and if a colleague has gone through by-pass you cannot force him to come. The other two can come. I also thought that I would take the views of the Committee and after that we would probably summon Shri Rewati Raman Singh and Shri Saxena on the same day, the 7th itself. ŒÙ „UË ◊Òê’‚¸ •Êÿ¥ª– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl (‚ê÷‹)— ©Uã„¥U ¬„U‹ ‚Ë.«UË. ÁŒπÊÿ¥ª–

MD. SALIM: Who else would be called? MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Rewati Raman Singh and Shri Saxena. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ (ŒÁˇÊáÊ ÁŒÀ‹Ë)— ◊⁄‘U ÅÿÊ‹ ‚ ¬„U‹ ‚ŒSÿ ’Ù‹¥, ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ©Uã„¥U ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡ÿ– MD. SALIM: As we discussed last time, we have gone through these CDs which were submitted by CNN-IBN and rightly you have pointed out, and I said immediately no because immediately some more materials will come. Since it has come and in the beginning we have said that whatever CD we received from Ms. Uma Bharati and Shri Amar Singh and then the documents delivered to you, the same should be circulated to the Members. This is my request, and subsequently, fix the date also. We have decided the dates earlier and we would go by that. In the next meeting, we would call two MPs, after that, we would try to do other things also if we get time. Copies of these CDs also should be supplied to us because the microphone, the audio from the CD was transferred to the television, from television to this because of which there was a poor audio quality. So, if the CDs are made available as was the case in the earlier Committee, directly from the DVD player we can follow some more things. Transcript is also coming. We can corroborate with that also. With these CDs and subsequently with the documents that are circulated, and from our memory also, we sit together and use them while cross- examination. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, on 7th, we call only the three petitioners—whosoever will appear, will appear on the 7th; then, we should now take a decision on extension of time because we are supposed to give the report by the 11th of August at 11 a.m. MD. SALIM: I have a different suggestion; last time also I have told that we have other meetings. Because of time constraints, we can have both together. We will ask for the extension of time; but we should also try to do justice to our responsibility. So, as you proposed, Mr. Chairman, on the 7th, in the first half, we can invite the two complainants and in the second half, we will call Mr. Rewati Raman Singh. We should do it faster. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: The problem is that, on that day, the Members will say whatever they want to; then, we will have the transcripts of them with us so that we can talk to others subsequently. We cannot remember everything. So, that can be on the 11th. MD. SALIM: In between if the tapes and the transcripts may be submitted to us. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Then, we can call them on the 11th. MD. SALIM: Then, we will have to listen to CNN-IBN people also. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, on the 7th, we will call the petitioners and on the 11th, we will listen to CNN-IBN. 139 MD. SALIM: On the 7th, we will listen to these two complainants, because the 3rd petitioner is not well, and the CNN-IBN, because they have nothing more; then on the 11th, we will listen to others, whoever is coming in-between. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– vv ∑§Ù ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Ê ‹¥– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U ÃÙ „ÒU Ÿ„UË¥– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡„UÊ¢ ÷Ë „UÙ¢, ŸÙÁ≈U‚ Œ¥– ÕÙ«∏UÊ ≈UÊß◊ ÖÿÊŒÊ ◊Ê¢ª ‹¥– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù ‡ÊÒ«KÍ‹ ⁄UπÊ „ÒU | •ÊÒ⁄U vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ê, fl„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù ÷Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò≈U‚¸ ß‚ ∑§◊≈UË ‚ Á⁄U‹≈U«U „Ò¥U øÊ„U fl„U ŒÙ ◊Òê’‚¸ mÊ⁄UÊ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ◊Ò≈U⁄U „ÒU, ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ ª„UŸ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ¡ÀŒ’Ê¡Ë ∑§⁄U∑§ ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ß‚◊¥ ߢ‚Ê»§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑¥§ª– ß‚◊¥ ‚◊ÿ ‹ª, ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡ÀŒ’Ê¡Ë Ÿ„UË¢ ∑§⁄UŸË øÊÁ„U∞– •Ê¬ •÷Ë Ã∑§ ¡Ù ¬˝Ùª˝Ê◊ ’ŸÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, fl„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ù vv ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÃÙ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ◊Òê’⁄U ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪ʖ ©UŸ∑§Ù ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ’È‹Êß∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ŒÙ Á‚Á≈¢Uª ∑§Á⁄Uÿ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊Ê⁄UË ŒÙ ‚Á◊ÁÃÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª „ÒU– ‚÷Ë ‚Á◊ÁÃÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢UÇ¡ „Ò¥U– ©U‚ ÁŒŸ •◊àÿ¸ ‚Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ë S¬Ëø ÷Ë „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚Ù◊flÊ⁄U ∑§Ù ⁄Uπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U •ÊÒ⁄U ‚¢¡ÿ ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– vv ∑§Ù ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∞¢ª– •’ „U◊¥ ∞Ä‚≈Ò¥U‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‚◊ÿ ◊Ê¢ªŸÊ „ÒU– Today itself we have to ask for extension of time. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— «U≈U ◊à ŒËÁ¡ÿ–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— «U≈U ÃÙ ŒŸË ¬«∏UÃË „ÒU– •ªSà ∑§ •¢Ã Ã∑§ ‚◊ÿ ◊Ê¢ª ‹Ã „Ò¥U– ÿÁŒ ßß ◊¥ ¬Í⁄UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU ÃÙ We will ask for extension of time again. That is my responsibility; we will get further extensions. ¡Ù ‚Ë«UË „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ „Ò¥U, fl ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U ∑§⁄UŸË „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù Ÿß¸ •Ê߸ „Ò¥U, fl ÷Ë ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U ∑§⁄UŸË „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ŒπŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl ⁄‘U‹flã≈U „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U ∑§Ù߸ ‚Ë∑˝§≈U «UÊÄÿÍ◊Ò¥≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U •ÊÒ⁄U ©U◊Ê ÷Ê⁄UÃË Ÿ ‚Ë«UË Á⁄U‹Ë¡ ∑§Ë „ÒU–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, Officially, we can circulate those CDs also. ß‚∑§Ë ∑§Ê¬Ë¡ ’ŸÊ∑§⁄U Á¡ÃŸÊ ¡ÀŒË „UÙ ‚∑§ªÊ, „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù Œ Œ¥ª– (‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë ’Ò∆U∑§ SÕÁªÃ „ÈU߸–)

140 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 7 August, 2008, comprising evidence of

(i) Shri Ashok Argal, MP (ii) Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, MP MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members and friends, in today’s sitting we had decided to actually record the evidence of the petitioners, two of our colleagues, Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste. Two of them have come. The third petitioner, Shri Mahavir Bhagora, I am told, is unwell. He had open heart surgery. So, I think we can begin. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÖflÊߢ≈U S≈U≈U◊Ò¥≈U „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: But the normal custom is to call them separately one by one. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ ŒÙŸÙ¥ Ÿ ÖflÊߢ≈U‹Ë ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÖflÊߢ≈U‹Ë ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U–

MD. SALIM: Have all the three of them come?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Two of them have come. The normal custom has been to call them one by one.

MD. SALIM: But they have made a joint statement. Since the complaint is a joint one and the statement first made was jointly, let us ask them to come. We will ask them one by one. We will ask them to give reply. ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿÊŒfl ¡Ë, ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë •ı⁄U ‚‹Ë◊ ¡Ë ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù ß∑§≈U˜∆UÊ ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ Á¬≈Uˇʟ ∞∑§ „UË „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ÖflÊߢ≈U Á¬≈Uˇʟ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¡Ù ∑§êå‹¥≈U ŒË „ÒU, ÿÁŒ fl •‹ª-•‹ª ÷Ë ∑§„¥Uª Ã’ ÷Ë ∞∑§ ’Êà „UË „U٪˖ •‹ª-•‹ª ∑§„UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ÁûÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∞∑§ „UË ’Òª ◊¥ ÃËŸÙ¥ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ‹ •Ê∞ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— fl„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ‹ •Ê∞ Õ– ÖflÊߢ≈U ∑§êå‹¥≈U ÷Ë „ÒU, ‚’ ’Êà ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •‹ª-•‹ª ¬Í¿UŸ ‚ •ÊÒ⁄U Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– •Ê¬ ‚Êˇÿ ‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ fl fl„UË ’Êà ∑§„¥Uª, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •‹ª-•‹ª ¬Í¿UŸÊ ÖÿÊŒÊ ∆UË∑§ „U٪ʖ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù ß∑§≈U˜∆UÊ ∑§⁄U∑§ ÄÿÙ¥ ¬Í¿UÃ „Ò¥U– ◊⁄UË ‚◊¤Ê ‚ ¬Í¿UŸ ∑§Ê Ã⁄UË∑§Ê ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– fl fl„UË ’Êà ’Ù‹¥ª ¡Ù Á‹πË „ÒU, ÃÙ •‹ª-•‹ª ¬ÍÁ¿U∞– ©Uã„¥U ÿÊŒ „UË „ÒU Á∑§ ÄÿÊ Á‹πÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U⁄U øË¡ ÖflÊߢ≈U‹Ë ∑§Ë „ÒU, ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ¡Ù •‹ª Á∑§ÿÊ „UÙ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ ß‚‚ ‚„U◊à Ÿ„UË¥ „Í¢U, ◊⁄UÊ ß‚◊¥ ¬˝Ù≈ÒUS≈U „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊⁄UÊ ‚flÊ‹ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ ∑§êå‹¥≈U •Ê߸ Ã’ •äÿˇÊ ◊„UÙŒÿ ÿÊ ‹Ë«U‚¸ ∑§Ë ¡Ù ’Ò∆U∑§ „ÈU߸, ©U‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ „U◊Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∞∑§-∞∑§ ∑§⁄U∑§ ’È‹Ê∞¢, „U◊Ÿ ÃËŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– •äÿˇÊ ◊„UÙŒÿ Ÿ ¡’ ©UŸ‚ ∑§êå‹¥≈U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ, Ã’ ÷Ë ÃËŸÙ¥ Ÿ ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§êå‹¥≈U ∑§Ë– „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃ Á∑§ Ÿ∞ Á‚⁄‘U ‚ Ÿß¸ ¬⁄Uê¬⁄UÊ ‡ÊÈM§ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– We will go by that. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ß‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ÁûÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Salim, I am sorry, it is not naya parampara. Parampara is to call them separately. If you want to call them together, it is a different matter. 143 MD. SALIM: It is on this case. MR. CHAIRMAN: It is on this case only. But it is not the parampara. Parampara is to call them separately. Even in the other case which was given by Yogi Aditya Nath, ¡’ «UË∞◊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞‚¬Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– So, we called them separately and not together in those cases. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©UŸ∑§Ë ‚’∑§Ë ∑§êå‹¥≈U •‹ª-•‹ª ÕË, „U⁄‘U∑§ Ÿ •‹ª-•‹ª Á‹π∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ– ÿ„U ÃËŸÙ¥ Ÿ ß∑§≈U˜∆U Á‹π∑§⁄U ŒË ÕË–

MD. SALIM: I said about in this case.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is all right. If everybody feels, I have no problem. ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— Ã◊Ê◊ ∑§‚¡ ∞‚ „UÙÃ „Ò¥U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ Áfl≈UŸ‚ „U◊‡ÊÊ ‚¬⁄‘U≈U „UÙÃË „ÒU– ∑§÷Ë ÷Ë ŒÙ Áfl≈UŸ‚ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ Ÿ„UË¥ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ, whether here or in any court of law.

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ∑§Ù≈¸U •ÊÚ»§ ‹ÚÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ, fl „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∑ȧ‹ËÇ‚ „Ò¥U– They are not criminals.

MD. SALIM: They are complainants and not accused. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: They are not accused. MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, but you see, this is of a different nature. They are not accused. They are complainants but if you go deeper into the thing, you know, Section 7 of Anti-Corruption Act also says that taking money is a corrupt thing. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: There is no charge of corruption. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, there is no charge. What I am saying is that this has got wider ramification. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©UŸ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øÊ¡¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ©UŸ ¬⁄U ÄÿÊ øÊ¡¸ „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©UŸ ¬⁄U øÊ¡¸ „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬Ò‚Ê Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U •ÊÿªË Ã’ Œπ¥ª– ¡’ ÿ„U øÊ¡¸ •ÊÿªÊ Ã’ Œπ¥ª– •÷Ë ©UŸ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øÊ¡¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ê¢ø ∑§ ’ÊŒ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ªÊ Á∑§ ÄÿÊ ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ÄÿÊ ‚Êˇÿ „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ ©UŸ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øÊ¡¸ ‹ªÊÿªÊ Ã’ „U◊ ©Uã„¥U •‹ª-•‹ª ’È‹Êÿ¥ª– •÷Ë ©UŸ∑§ Áπ‹Ê»§ ∑§Ù߸ øÊ¡¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kuppusami, what is your opinion?

SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: We can call them individually. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, you feel that they should be called individually. üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ù ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ ’È‹ÊŸ ◊¥ ÁŒÄ∑§Ã ÄÿÊ „ÒU? fl ∑§Ù߸ •¬⁄UÊœË Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U, ∑§Ù߸ ∞ÄÿÍÖ«U Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U–

144 ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U •‹ª Ã⁄UË∑§ ∑§Ê ∑§‚ „ÒU– It is a case of a different nature. It is a very sensitive matter. What is the difficulty in calling them separately? Is there any problem in calling them separately? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©Uã„¥U ß∑§≈U˜∆UÊ ’È‹ÊŸ ◊¥ ÷Ë ÄÿÊ ¬˝ıé‹◊ „ÒU? ÃËŸÙ¥ Ÿ •¬ŸË ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ß∑§≈U˜∆UË Á‹π∑§⁄U ŒË „ÒU– They have given the same representation.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me be very blunt and plain, Prof. Malhotra. ÁŒÄ∑§Ã ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ •‹ª-•‹ª ’È‹Êÿ¥ª– I would like to convince myself on this point. They should corroborate with each other. If they are called separately, they may give different statements.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: I think that this would not be proper.

MR. CHAIRMAN: If the statements are separate, and if we call them together, you cannot do that. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— S≈U≈U◊Ò¥≈U ∞∑§ „UË „ÒU– ∞∑§, ŒÙ Ÿ„UË¥, ÃËŸÙ¥, øÊ⁄UÙ¥, ¬Ê¢øÙ¥ Á¡ÃŸË S≈U≈U◊Ò¥≈U˜‚ „Ò¥U, fl ‚’ ß∑§≈U˜∆UË „Ò¥U– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬∑§Ù „U⁄U ◊Òê’⁄U ∑§Ù •‹ª-•‹ª ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊŸË „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: When you examine them, they should come separately. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ©Uã„¥U ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊÿ¥ª– •ª⁄U ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊŸË „ÒU, ÃÙ ÁŒπÊßÿ •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡Ù ÷Ë ¬Í¿UŸÊ „ÒU, ©UŸ‚ ¬ÍÁ¿Uÿ– •Ê¬ ∞∑§-∞∑§ ◊Òê’⁄U ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊÿ¥ª •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÙ-ŒÙ ÉÊ¢≈U ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‹ªÊÿ¥ª–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, time consumption is not what matters over here. Though the petition is the same, it is not unlikely that both of them give different replies. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∑§fl‹ ‚Ë«UË ‚ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Í¿UŸÊ „ÒU– ¡Ù ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U „ÒU, ©U‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÷Ë „U◊¥ ¬Í¿UŸÊ „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ‚Ë«UË „UË Áfl·ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ù Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ¬òÊ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ‚ ÷Ë „U◊¥ ¬Í¿UŸÊ „ÒU, ∑§fl‹ ‚Ë«UË „UË •ÊœÊ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ‚Ë«UË ÃÙ •‹ª ¬˝◊ÊáÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ‚Ë«UË ÃÙ ÁŒπÊÿ¥ª– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ‚Ë«UË „UË ÃÙ •ÊœÊ⁄U ’ŸË „ÒU– ©U‚Ë ‚ ÃÙ ÿ„U ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ◊Ê◊‹Ê ©U‚Ë ‚ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¡Ù ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U ¬Í⁄UÊ Á‹Áπà „ÒU– ◊ÊŸ ‹¥, ÿÁŒ ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ∑ȧ¿U ßœ⁄U-©Uœ⁄U ÷Ë „ÒU, ¿ÍU≈U ÷Ë ªÿÊ „ÒU– ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ◊¥ ÃÙ ¬Í⁄UË øË¡ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚Ë«UË •ÊœÊ⁄U „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ ©UŸ‚ ¬˝‡Ÿ ¬Í¿¥Uª– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ‚Ê⁄‘U ‹Ùª ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ „Ò¥U, ß‚Á‹∞ ‚Ë«UË ‚’ ‹Ùª ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ Œπ¥– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬ ¬˝‡Ÿ ∑§ËÁ¡∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙ¥ª, •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù ¬Í¿UŸÊ „ÒU, ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ©Uã„¥U ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊßÿ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl„U ÖflÊߢ≈U ‚Ë«UË „ÒU, •∑§‹Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is all right. But after that, when you examine them, they should come separately.

145 ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊Ê⁄UË ⁄UÊÿ ÿ„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„¥U ÖflÊߢ≈U‹Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∑§fl‹ ‚Ë«UË ¬⁄U •ÊœÊÁ⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ◊¥ ’„ÈUà ∑ȧ¿U Á‹πÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, fl„U ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ¢ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§Ê ø„U⁄UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ– •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ¡Ù ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, fl„U ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„UÊ– •ÊœÊ ¬Ê≈¸U „ÒU „UË Ÿ„UË¥– ¡Ù ¬Ò‚Ê •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ê Á‹¢∑§ πÙ¡ŸÊ „ÒU– fl„U ÃÙ ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ¬Í¿UŸÊ „UÙªÊ, ÃÙ ‚¬⁄‘U≈U‹Ë ¬Í¿¥Uª– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©UŸ‚ ‚¬⁄‘U≈U‹Ë ¬Í¿UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ÁŒÄ∑§Ã „ÒU?

MD. SALIM: Firstly, the whole affair was referred to this Committee. The Committee was constituted because there was a complaint by three Members together and the occurrence of the incident was also together. The money was offered together. They brought the money in the House together, because of which this Committee has been constituted, in one bag and as a single amount. It was not brought in parts. Thirdly, the memoranda submitted to this Committee and the Speaker are jointly signed. Neither the Speaker nor the Chairman nor the Committee had taken objection to sign it separately, to send separate letters and to send separate complaints. Even the corrigendum which they have sent has been done collectively. Now, it is up to the Committee to decide. We are arguing a point. I am not attributing any motive here. But from the beginning, it seems that we are now indulging in criminal proceedings and the complainants are being converted into accused. I am putting it on record before our starting of taking evidence. It seems so. I am not attributing any motive. The effort is on even outside also. Let the other CDs also come. Those who are accused now at this moment allegedly offered money are also converting this case and if the Committee goes by this, I am sorry. This should be put on record. I will abide by whatever is decided by the Committee. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿÊŒ ÁŒ‹ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ xÆ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¡’ ߢÄflÊÿ⁄UË ∑§Ë ’Ò∆U∑§ ‡ÊÈM§ „ÈU߸ ÕË Ã’ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ– ©U‚Ë ÁŒŸ „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ß‚∑§ ∑§ß¸ ÷ʪ „Ò¥U– ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§fl‹ ∞∑§ „UË ÷ʪ „ÒU– ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ Á∑§‚Ë ÁŸc∑§·¸ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ „U◊¥ ÃâÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „UÙªÊ, ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‡ÊÊ≈¸U∑§≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Êÿ– ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë •¡¸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •ª⁄U ≈UÊß◊ ∞Ä‚≈Ò¥U«U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¬«∏U, ÃÙ ≈UÊß◊ Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ¡ÀŒ’Ê¡Ë Á∑§‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚◊¥ ¡ÀŒ’Ê¡Ë ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ÃËŸÙ¥ ß∑§≈U˜∆U •Êÿ Õ– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ •Ê‹ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‹Ë«U‚¸ fl„UÊ¢ Õ– S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ∞∑§-∞∑§ ∑§⁄U∑§ •Êßÿ– „U◊ •Ê¬‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ©UŸ◊¥ ‚ ∞∑§ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿ ¬Í⁄UÊ Ÿ⁄‘U≈U Á∑§ÿÊ– S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÃËŸÙ¥ ß∑§≈UÔ˜∆U •Ê∞ •ı⁄U ÃËŸÙ¥ Ÿ •¬ŸË ’Êà ∑§„UË– S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡ÀŒË »Ò§‚‹Ê ∑§M¢§ªÊ– fl„UÊ¢ ÷Ë ÃËŸÙ¥ ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Êÿ Õ– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ë ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ©U‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ‚ •¬ŸË ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ ŒË– Á¡‚ ÁŒŸ ∑§Ù߸ ∞‚Ê ∑§‚ ’ŸÊÿ¥ª ÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ „U◊¥ ŒªÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ù ∞ÄÿÍÖ«U ’ŸÊŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡’ „U◊ ’Êà ∑§⁄‘¥Uª Ã’ ©Uã„¥U •‹ª-•‹ª ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà ÷Ë „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •÷Ë ‡ÊÈM§ ◊¥ ¡Ù ∑§ê¬‹Ÿ¥≈U˜‚ „Ò¥U, ©Uã„¥U ∞ÄÿÍÖ«U ’ŸÊ∑§⁄U ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Êÿ, ÃÙ fl„U ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „U◊ ©Uã„¥U ∞ÄÿÍÖ«U ∑§„UÊ¢ ’ŸÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „U◊ ∞ÄÿÍÖ«U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ŸÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∞ÄÿÍÖ«U ∑§Ù߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ’ŸÊ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë ÿ„U •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ ◊Ÿ ‚ „UË ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– „U◊ ÃâÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ß‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU?

146 MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, the question is not whether they are accused or not. The petitioners may have been contacted separately by separate people. They may have different sources of conversation. They may like to say different things to us. To me, it appears that it is a very simple matter. It is the question of recording the evidence of petitoiners. What is the apprehension in your mind to call them separately? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ’Ê„U⁄U ÷Ë „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ„UÊ¢ ÷Ë „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ∞‚Ê Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‡ÊÈM§ ◊¥ „UË ©Uã„¥U ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ≈˛UË≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Êÿ ¡Ò‚ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ ∑˝§Ê߸◊ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: There is no question of any crime.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: But this is not fair. We have given our objection.

MR. CHAIRMAN: As far as outside is concerned, nothing from the Committee has gone out. If people have been hurling innuendoes and making their own statements about it, I can only deplore that. I can go on record to say that everything that has been appearing in the press from either side has to be condemned unilaterally. I cannot take cognizance of what is happening and this is not a trial by media and it is not a public type of trial which is conducted. We have to go by certain procedures and I simply fail to understand the difficulty to call them separately. It is only to understand each one’s views. Even in the court, it is so.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: This is not a court. Á¡‚◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ∑§‚ „ÒU, fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U fl ∞¡ ∞ÄÿÍÖ«U ∞¬Ëÿ⁄U „UÙ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is a quasi judicial body and witnesses appearing on behalf of complaints are being examined by the court separately. ∑§÷Ë ÷Ë ©Uã„¥U ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ Ÿ„UË¥ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •ª⁄U Œ‚ ∑§ê¬‹Ÿ¥≈U˜‚ „UÙÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ Œ‚Ù¥ ∑§Ù ß∑§≈U˜∆UÊ ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ¬Í¿UÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU, •‹ª-•‹ª Ÿ„UË¥ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ– ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ¡Ù •Ê¬ËÁŸÿŸ „ÒU, fl„U „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU–

MD. SALIM: If subsequently, we find that there are loopholes in the complaints and there are certain things which are not corroborating, if some solid cases come and new series have come, we will send them to narcotics test.

MR. CHAIRMAN: There is no question of narcotics here.

MD. SALIM: As of now, why do you divide them?

MR. CHAIRMAN: As you yourself have said, they have signed together in one petition. I want to make sure from them separately whether they are aware of what they have signed, though they have signed together. When you are calling to inquire and probe into a matter, they should be called separately. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©UŸ‚ •‹ª-•‹ª ¬Í¿UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ÁûÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU, ÿ„U „U◊¥ ‚◊¤Ê ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU?

MR. CHAIRMAN: I do not want to create a controversy on this issue. But I would like to go on record again. We will call them together but I would like to go on record to say that the

147 normal procedure is to call them separately. They are complainants and definitely not accused for criminals. But since there are such strong feelings within the Committee that they should be called together, I have no problem in calling them together.

Another CD has come to us. ∞∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Ë«UË S¬Ë∑§⁄U •ÚÊÁ»§‚ ‚ •Ê߸ „ÒU, ß‚∑§Ë ÷Ë ∑§Ê¬Ë ’ŸÊ∑§⁄U •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÷¡ Œ¥ª–

MD. SALIM: By whom?

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is by Shri Amar Singh. We will make copies and circulate it to all. ’Ê∑§Ë ÃÙ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¬„È¢Uø øÈ∑§Ë „Ò¥U–

I would like to inform the hon. Members that first of all we are asking for extension. On 11th we are calling CNN-IBN and on 18th we have decided to call Shri Rewati Raman Singh and Shri Sanjeev Saxena. ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬„U‹ „U◊ ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸ ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ã „Ò¥U, ©U‚‚ Á»§⁄U ∑ȧ¿U •ãÿ ŸÊ◊ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê ¡Ê∞¢ª–

WITNESSES EXAMINED

3. Shri Ashok Argal, Member of Parliament, Lok Sabha

4. Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste, Member of Parliament, Lok Sabha ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∞fl¢ üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë, •Ê¬∑§Ù •Ê¡ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ◊à ¬˝SÃÊfl ¬⁄U ◊Ìʟ ∑§ Á‹∞ œŸ⁄UÊÁ‡Ê ∑§Ë ∑§ÁÕà ¬‡Ê∑§‡Ê ∑§Ë •Ê¬∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ ∑§Ë ªÿË Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ‚¢’¢œË ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚◊ˇÊ ¬˝SÃÈà „UÙŸ ∑§Ê •ŸÈ⁄UÙœ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U ’ÃÊŸÊ øÊ„Í¢UªÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ¬˝Á∑˝§ÿÊ ∞fl¢ ∑§Êÿ¸ ‚¢øÊ‹Ÿ ÁŸÿ◊Ù¥ ∑§ ÁŸÿ◊ w|z ∑§ •¢Ãª¸Ã •Ê¡ ¡Ù ‚Êˇÿ Œ¥ª •ÊÒ⁄U ¡Ù ∑§Êÿ¸flÊ„UË „UÙªË, fl„U ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ‚◊ˇÊ ‚Á◊Áà mÊ⁄UÊ •¬ŸÊ ¬˝ÁÃflŒŸ ¬˝SÃÈà Á∑§∞ ¡ÊŸ Ã∑§ ªÙ¬ŸËÿ ‚◊¤ÊË ¡Ê∞ªË– ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë ∑§Êÿ¸flÊ„UË ∑§Ê Á∑§‚Ë ÷Ë ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ¬Ífl¸ ¬˝∑§≈UË∑§⁄UáÊ •ÕflÊ ¬˝∑§Ê‡ÊŸ Áfl‡Ê·ÊÁœ∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê „UŸŸ ÃÕÊ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ë •fl◊ÊŸŸÊ ◊ÊŸË ¡Ê∞ªË– •’ •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ∞∑§-∞∑§ ∑§⁄U∑§ ‡Ê¬Õ ‹ËÁ¡∞– (‚ÊÁˇÊÿÙ¥ mÊ⁄UÊ ‡Ê¬Õ-ª˝„UáÊ) ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë, ÃËŸ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ê¬Ÿ ∞∑§ ‚ËÀ«U ∑§fl⁄U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÷¡Ê ÕÊ Á¡‚◊¥ ∞∑§ ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ÕÊ– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ’ÃÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl„U ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U Á∑§‚ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ? ÄÿÊ ©U‚∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ‚Ë«UË Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ◊„UÙŒÿ, ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∞∑§ flÁ⁄Uc∆U ‚„UÿÙªË üÊË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ ©UŸ ‚Ê⁄‘U ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ∑§ M§¬ ◊¥ ∑§‹Ä≈U Á∑§ÿÊ Á¡‚◊¥ ‚ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ◊¥ ÁfløÊ⁄U ∑§⁄U∑§ ∑ȧ¿U ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑¢§å‹Ÿ ◊¥ ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©U‚ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ∑§‹Ä≈U Á∑§ÿÊ, Á∑§‚ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ©U‚ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, ‚ËÀ«U ∑§fl⁄U ◊¥ ÷¡Ÿ ‚ ¬„U‹ ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Í¿UÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë, Ÿ„UË¥–

148 ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ‚ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ „U٪ʖ •ª⁄U fl„U •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ „UÙ ÃÙ „U◊¥ Œ ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë, Ÿ„UË¥– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ‚Ë«UË flªÒ⁄U„U ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§ıŸ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ê⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ „UË „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∞∑§ ‚„UÿÙªË „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ß‚∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ∑Ò§‚ Á◊‹Ë, ÄÿÊ ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ¡Ù øøʸ „ÈU߸ ÕË, ©U‚◊¥ ‚ „UË ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§‹Ä≈U ∑§Ë ÕË¥, Á¡‚ „U◊Ÿ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ‚◊⁄UÊß¡ Á∑§ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U •Ê¬‚ ◊¥ ‚Ê⁄‘U Á«U≈UÀ‚ Ãÿ ∑§⁄U∑§ •¬ŸË ∑¢§å‹Ÿ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ◊¥ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •’ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ˪áÊ •Ê¬‚ ∑ȧ¿U ¬˝‡Ÿ ¬Í¿¥Uª, •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§ ©UûÊ⁄U Œ ŒËÁ¡∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ„U ¡Ù ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ê ‹ŸŒŸ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, •’ „U◊Ÿ fl„U ‚Ë«UË ŒπË „ÒU, •Ê¬ ÷Ë Œπ ¬Ê∞ „UÙ¥ª, ©U‚◊¥ ¡Ù ∑§◊⁄UÊ „ÒU, •’ ¡Ù „U◊¥ ¬ÃÊ ø‹Ê, •Ê¬∑§Ë ∑§êå‹¥≈U ∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ ¡Ù ¬Ò‚Ê ‹Ã ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ, fl„U Á∑§‚∑§Ê M§◊ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊⁄UÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ê ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄UË ÄflÊ≈¸U⁄U ∑§Ê ∑§◊⁄UÊ ÕÊ– ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚È’„U ÕË ÿÊ ∑§’ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ÕË, vw ’¡ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚¬Ê ∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë Õ, fl„U •Ê∞ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù •Ê∞ Õ, ŸÙ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê∞ Õ– ŸÙ≈U ∑§’ •Ê∞? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— fl„U ‚È’„U •Ê∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ§ ∑§Ù ‚È’„U •Ê∞ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ë ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË, fl„U wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ÄÿÊ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù „ÈU߸ ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ∑§⁄UË’ vw, ‚Ê…∏U vw ’¡ „ÈU߸ ÕË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ ∑§÷Ë ©UŸ‚ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©UŸ‚ ◊⁄UË ∑§÷Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ Ÿ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù L§¬∞ ∑§Ê ’Òª ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚, ©U‚∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ŸÊ◊ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚ ¬„U‹ ∑§÷Ë ŒπÊ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– ∑§fl‹ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U ’ÃÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U √ÿÁÄà •Ê∞¢ª– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U ∑§’ ª∞ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚È’„U– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ fl„UÊ¢ fl„U Ÿ„UË¥ Õ, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ÕÊ–

149 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡’ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ’Êà „ÈU߸, ©U‚∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „U◊Ÿ ŒπË „ÒU– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, „U◊Ÿ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ŒπË fl„U •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ©U‚∑§Ê ¬˝’¢œ ¬„U‹ ‚ „UË Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©U‚ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ê ¬˝’¢œ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË Á∑§ ∞‚Ê „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ß‚∑§Ê ◊‡ÊÁfl⁄UÊ ÁŒÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ’¢ŒÙ’Sà Á∑§ÿÊ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á’À∑ȧ‹– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ‚È’„U ¡Ù ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ª∞ Õ, •Ê¬∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ª∞ Õ ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ªÊ«∏UË ¬⁄U ª∞ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— fl„U ◊ÊM§Áà ¡Ÿ ÕË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U Á∑§‚Ÿ ÷¡Ë ÕË, ¡Ù •Ê¬∑§Ù ‹Ÿ ªß¸ ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ’Ëø ∑§Ê •ÊŒ◊Ë ‹Ÿ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∑§ıŸ ’Ëø ∑§Ê •ÊŒ◊Ë „ÒU, Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ÃÙ ’¢ŒÙ’Sà Á∑§ÿÊ „UÙªÊ, „U◊Ÿ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ◊¥ ŒπÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡ÊŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, Á◊‹Ÿ ∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù, •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê ¬Ê∞¢ª, ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ÁŒŸ ‚È’„U ¡Ê ¬Ê∞¢ª– ∑ȧ¿U ÃÙ fl∑¸§•Ê©U≈U Á∑§ÿÊ „UÙªÊ, ¡Ù Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ÿÊ »§ÙŸ ◊¥ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚È’„U •Ê∞¢ª, ∑§ıŸ ‹ ¡Ê∞ªÊ Á∑§‚∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ÕË ◊ÊM§Áà ¡Ÿ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ªÊ«∏UË flÊ‹ ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù ’Ëø ∑§Ê √ÿÁÄà „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ù ©U‚∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ’ÃÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊ ’ÃÊ Œ¥ª, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‚Á◊Áà ©U‚∑§Ë ¬Í⁄UË ‚È⁄UˇÊÊ ∑§Ë Á¡ê◊ŒÊ⁄UË ‹– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •ª⁄U ÿ„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ ÃÙ øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù ÿÊ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ‹ª Á∑§ ¡Ù-¡Ù •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ¬Ã •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ë ‚È⁄UˇÊÊ ∑§Ê •Ê‡flÊ‚Ÿ ‹∑§⁄U ’ÃÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊ∞¢ª ÃÙ ©Uã„¥U ∑Ò§‚ ’È‹Ê∞¢ª? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©U‚∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ‚È„ÒU‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ fl„U «˛UÊßfl⁄U ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡’ •Ê¬ ŒÊÁπ‹ „UÙ ⁄U„U Õ w| Ÿflê’⁄U ◊¥, ¡Ù •Êª ’Ò∆U ÕÊ, ‚ÊŒË ≈UË ‡Ê≈¸U ◊¥, ÄÿÊ fl„U fl„UË „ÒU, ¡Ù „U◊Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ ŒπÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— fl„UË „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ fl„U •Ê¬∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ ¬„UøÊŸ ∑§Ê „ÒU ÿÊŸË ’Ëø ∑§Ê •ÊŒ◊Ë ÕÊ?

150 üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊Ê⁄UË ©U‚‚ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊Ÿ ŒπÊ Á∑§ fl„U •Êª-¬Ë¿U ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ fl„U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ß‚ ¬˝∑§⁄UáÊ ◊¥ fl„U ’Ëø ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¬„U‹ •ÊÿÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ’ÊŒ ◊¥ Á◊‹Ê? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •ÊÿÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ww ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ë Á◊‹? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚È„ÒU‹ ∞‹Êß‚ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË •ÊÒ⁄U ∞‚ ∑§ıŸ ‚ ŸÊ◊ „UÙ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, Á¡‚‚ „U◊ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? „U◊¥ ’ÊÃøËà ‚ ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊ– Á∑§ÃŸ ‹Ùª Õ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ¡’ „ÈU߸ ÕË, ≈UÄŸËÁ‡ÊÿŸ, ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ flªÒ⁄U„U ÷Ë „UÙ¥ª? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‹ª÷ª øÊ⁄U ‹Ùª Õ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ë ≈UË◊ ÕË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë– ¡Ù „U◊Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ ŒπÊ, ©Uã„¥U „U◊ ¬„UøÊŸÃ „Ò¥U, ’Ê∑§Ë ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥– „U◊Ÿ ŒπÊ ∑§Ë •ÊÁ«UÿÙ ∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª •‹ª Á◊‹Ë •ÊÒ⁄U flËÁ«UÿÙ ∑§Ë ∑ȧ¿U •ÊÒ⁄U Á◊‹Ë– ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ’ÃÊ ¬Ê∞¢ª? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •Ê¬ ©U‚Ë ◊¥ Œπ ‹¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ flËÁ«UÿÙ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ •‹ª ÿÊ »§ÙŸ •‹ª ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— flËÁ«UÿÙ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‹ªÊ∞ Õ „U◊– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ë– •Ê¡∑§‹ ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „UÙÃË „ÒU, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ∞‚Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊⁄UË ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ÿÊ ◊Ù’Êß‹ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á∑§‚∑§ ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚ ÁŒŸ ¡Ù L§¬ÿÊ ŒŸ ∑§Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê ÕÊ, •Ê¬ ‚Ù ∑§ÊÀ«U ŸÊ◊ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ¡Ù ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚Ÿ •¬Ÿ ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥, ‚È„ÒU‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË „ÒU, ©U‚Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ©U‚ Ÿê’⁄U ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¬Ê¢ø-¿U— ’Ê⁄U, ◊⁄UË ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ Ÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸–

MD. SALIM: Mr. Chairman, Sir may I continue?

151 MR. CHAIRMAN: Let us finish one by one. ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ò¥ •÷Ë ∑ȧ¿U •ÊÒ⁄U ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, ◊ȤÊ •‹Ê™§ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ‚å‹Ë◊¥≈U „UÙªÊ, ÃÙ ¬Í¿U ‹¥ª– „U◊Ÿ ¡Ù flËÁ«UÿÊ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ, fl„U •Ê¬‚ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– •Ê¬ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¡’ ◊ÊM§Áà ÊŸ ŒÊÁπ‹ „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË, ©U‚◊¥ ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‚ ‹Ùª Õ, ¡Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ª∞? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊Ò¥ πÈŒ ’Ò∆UÊ ÕÊ, »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Õ, ‚È„ÒU‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U «˛UÊßfl⁄U ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥– ¬„U‹ ∑§÷Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •¢Œ⁄U ¡Ê∑§⁄U Á∑§‚‚ Á◊‹? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑§fl‹ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸, M§◊ ◊¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á‚»¸§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸– •Ê¬ ¡’ ¬„È¢Uø ÃÙ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ •ÊŸ flÊ‹ „Ò¥U, ÄÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄ ∑§Ù߸ ‚Ê¢‚Œ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, „U◊ ŒÙ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U ª∞ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á¡ãŒªË ◊¥ ∑§÷Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ŒπÊ, ÿ„U •‹ª ◊Ò≈U⁄U „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©UŸ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U Á∑§ÃŸË Œ⁄U ⁄U„U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‹ª÷ª •ÊœÊ ÉÊ¢≈U ⁄U„U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •ÊœÊ ÉÊ¢≈UÊ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸, L§¬∞ ∑§Ë ÷Ë fl„UË¥ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— L§¬∞ ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà fl„UÊ¢ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ≈UÙ∑§Ÿ ◊ŸË „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù Œ ŒÃ „Ò¥U– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ π«∏UÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ≈UÙ∑§Ÿ ◊ŸË „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹¥ª– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU „U◊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬„È¢UøÊ Œ¥ª– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©UŸ‚ ¬ÈÁc≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, „U◊Ê⁄UË ÷Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸– ©ã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊‚ ÷Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©UŸ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ •Ê¬ ¬„UøÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊Ê⁄UË ©UŸ‚ ∑§÷Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬„UøÊŸÃ „Ò¥U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÙ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á∑§‚ »§ÙŸ ‚ „ÈU߸ ÕË, ÄÿÊ ‹Ò¥«U ‹Êߟ ¬⁄U ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‹Ò¥«U ‹Êߟ ‚ „ÈU߸ ÕË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢–

152 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§ ø‹ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡Ù L§¬ÿÊ •ÊÿÊ fl„U Á∑§ÃŸË Œ⁄U ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •ÊÿÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Êœ ÉÊ¢≈U ◊¥ •Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ⁄U„¥U, •Ê ¡Ê∞ªÊ– L§¬∞ ∑§ ’ÊŒ, ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ „U◊Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ ŒπÊ, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ©U‚ ‹ •Ê∞– ß‚ ’Ëø ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ ©U‚ L§¬∞ ∑§Ë ÕÒ‹Ë ¡Ù ÕË fl„U ∑§„UÊ¢-∑§„UÊ¢ ªÿË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— L§¬ÿÊ ŒŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ fl„U √ÿÁÄà ø‹Ê ªÿÊ– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ Ÿ ©U‚∑§ Ÿê’⁄U flªÒ⁄U„U ŸÙ≈U Á∑§∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊⁄UÊ ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà Á‹πË „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU ’Ê∑§ÊÿŒÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ø‹ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ L§¬ÿÊ Á«U‹Ëfl⁄UË ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡Ù ÷Ë ÕÊ, ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ ¡Ù Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U L§¬ÿÊ ⁄Uπ∑§⁄U, ¡Ù S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ øÒê’⁄U ◊¥ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË– •Ê¬‚ ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ◊¥ ’Êà ∑§Ë, ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ù ©U∆UÊÿÊ, •Êª flÊ‹Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ¬Ë¿U flÊ‹Ê ŸÙ≈U ÁŒπÊÿÊ, ’¢«U‹ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ©U∆UÊÿÊ– „U◊¥ Á¡ÃŸË ‚Ë«UË ŒË ªß¸ „ÒU, ß‚ ŸÙ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ¡’ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÿ„U ¬Ù‡Ê¸Ÿ Œπ¥ª– ¡Ù ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ¬⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ë, ¡Ù ‚Ë«UË „ÒU, fl„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬Ÿ Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ∑§Ë ÕË S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ¬Ê‚, fl„U ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ, ’Ê∑§Ë ’„ÈUà ‚Ê⁄‘U ‚ŒSÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ¥ª ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ •Ê¬‚ ߢ≈U⁄U√ÿÍ Á‹ÿÊ, ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ë »§Ù≈UÙ ‹Ë, ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ù •Êª- ¬Ë¿U Á∑§ÿÊ, ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ê ’¢«U‹ ©U∆UÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ≈U’‹ ¬⁄U ⁄Uπ∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ë– •’ ÷Ë •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∞‚Ê „ÈU•Ê „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á’À∑ȧ‹– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù ‚¢ÿÈÄà M§¬ ‚ wv ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ∑¢§å‹¥≈U ŒË „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ ©U‚◊¥ ‚ ∑ȧ¿U Ä‹ÒÁ⁄UÁ»§∑§‡ÊŸ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∞∑§ ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚Ë ŸÃÊ ‚ wv ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù ‹Ë-◊Á⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ◊¥ Á◊‹Ÿ ∑§Ë ’Êà Ãÿ „ÈU߸ ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ◊à ∑§ Œı⁄UÊŸ ¬˝¡¥≈U Ÿ ⁄U„UŸ ¬⁄U ¬Ò‚ ÁŒÿ ¡Ê∞¢ª– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ‹Ë-◊Á⁄UÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ªÿ Õ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ◊Ò¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª vÆ.xÆ ÿÊ vv ’¡ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU ‹Ë-◊Á⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ªÿ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ◊äÿSÕÊ ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ „UÙ¥ª– •Ê¬∑§Ù ‚ÍøŸÊ Á◊‹Ë Á∑§ ‹Ë-◊Á⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ◊¥ •ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ∑§Ù߸ ◊äÿSÕÃÊ ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ ÷Ë „UÙ¥ª? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Á¡‚ √ÿÁÄà ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË ©U‚ „U◊ ‚Í„U‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ‚ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U– fl„U √ÿÁÄà ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§Ë ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË, ©U‚ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ¡Ù ‚◊ÿ Ãÿ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ ‹Ë-◊Á⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸ ∑§Ê, ©U‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „U◊ fl„UÊ¢ ªÿ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ÃÙ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù vÆ ’¡ ªÿ Õ ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ‚Í„U‹ ∑§ ¡Á⁄Uÿ ◊Ò‚¡ ∑§’ Á◊‹Ê ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‹ª÷ª ~ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚¬Ê‚ ‚Í„U‹ ÿÊŸË ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ „U◊¥ ‚ÍøŸÊ Á◊‹Ë ÕË– ¡Ò‚ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊¥ ‚ÈœË⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ Ÿ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– ÿ„U ’Êà S¬c≈U „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊Ÿ ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ’ŸÊ߸– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ¬òÊ ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚ûÊÊ ∑§ •Ÿ∑§ Œ‹Ê‹Ù¥ Ÿ Á’øıÁ‹ÿÙ¥ ∑§ ◊Êäÿ◊ ‚ •Ê¬‚ ‚¢¬∑¸§ Á∑§ÿÊ– •Ê¬ Œ‹Ê‹Ù¥ ∑§ ŸÊ◊ Œ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∞∑§ flÊÃÊfl⁄UáÊ ∞‚Ê ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ’„ÈUà ‚Ê⁄UË ⁄UÊ¡ŸÒÁÃ∑§ ¬ÊÁ≈¸UÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ÷Ë ¡’ •À¬◊à ◊¥ ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U ø‹Ë ªÿË ÃÙ ∞∑§ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê flÊÃÊfl⁄UáÊ ÕÊ– •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÷Ë ∞‚Ê √ÿfl„UÊ⁄U „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ÁfløÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ß‚∑§Ê ¬ŒÊ¸»§Ê‡Ê „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞–

153 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ◊¥ Á’¢ŒÈ ÃËŸ ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ◊ÊS≈U⁄U-◊Êߢ«U ∑§Ù ©U¡Êª⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ’ŸÊ߸– ◊ÊS≈U⁄U-◊Êߢ«U ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ŸÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •Ê¬∑§ ÁŒ◊ʪ ◊¥? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹Ê ÃÙ fl„UË ‚Í„U‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ê „UË ŸÊ◊ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ¬Ê¢øflÊ¢ Á’¢ŒÈ „ÒU Á∑§ Á¡‚ ŸÃÊ ‚ ‹Ë-◊Á⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ◊¥ Á◊‹Ÿ ªÿ Õ ©U‚ ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚Ë ŸÃÊ ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ∑ȧ¿U ߢ«UË∑§‡ÊŸ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢– •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „UË ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ‚Í„U‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ߟ‚ ∞‚Ê Ãÿ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU ©U‚Ÿ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§Ê‹ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU– ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê Á«U‚Êß«U „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¡Ù ªÊ«∏UË ßSÃ◊Ê‹ ∑§Ë, •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ◊¥ ÿ„U Œ‡ÊʸÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§Ê⁄U Ÿê’⁄U «UË∞‹ w‚Ë z}z{, ÿ„U ‚Ä‚ŸÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ŸÙ≈UÙ ∑§ ’¢«U‹ ‹∑§⁄U •Êÿ Õ Á¡‚∑§Ê •Ê¬Ÿ ÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ S≈UÊ»§ Ÿ Ÿê’⁄U ŸÙ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ– ÄÿÊ fl„U Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ê⁄U ÕË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ê⁄U ÕË ÃÙ •¢Œ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ¬Í⁄UÊ •⁄‘¥U¡ ∑§⁄U∑§ ‚’ øË¡ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ‚ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄UÊ ⁄U„U Õ ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ, •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U Á∑§ÿÊ– ß‚ Œ‡Ê ∑§ ¬˝Á‚h øÒŸ‹ ’„ÈUà ‚ ⁄U„U Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿ „Ò¥U– ¬„U‹ ÷Ë •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ŒÈÿÙ¸œŸ ß‚ ∑§◊≈UË Ÿ ‚ÈŸÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚Ë ∑§Ù ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ù ¬‚¢Œ ÄÿÙ¥ Á∑§ÿÊ, ÿ„U •Ê¬∑§Ë ŸÊÁ‹¡ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ– •Ê¬∑§ ÄÿÊ ßŸ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ¬È⁄UÊŸ ‚¢’¢œ Õ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ „UË ßŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË, •ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡M§⁄U ©UŸ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸– ©UŸ∑§Ê ß‚ ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬Í⁄UÊ ‚◊Õ¸Ÿ ÕÊ– fl„U ¡M§⁄U äÿÊŸ ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ê øÊ⁄U Ÿê’⁄U ¡Ù Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U „ÒU ÄÿÊ ß‚∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§Ù߸ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ ÕÊ ¡Ù Á∑§‚Ë Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ù ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑Ò§Œ ∑§⁄UÃÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ŒÍ‚⁄UË ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ¡Ù ∞∑§ ∑§Ê⁄U zxx| «UË∞‹∞◊ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë •ÊÃË „ÒU ©U‚∑§Ê ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ fl„UÊ¢ ∑Ò§‚ „ÈU•Ê? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ◊⁄UË ∞ê’S«U⁄U ∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚ ∑§Ê⁄U ‚ •Ê¬ ∑§„UÊ¢ ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ, ©UÃ⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, Á»§⁄U ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊ ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ©UÃ⁄U ⁄U„U Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ „Ò¥U ©U‚◊¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÙ-ÃËŸ ‹Ùª „Ò¥U– ∞∑§ ‹«UË ÷Ë „ÒU ©U‚◊¥– •Ê¬∑§Ê S≈ÒUŸªŸ ◊ÒŸ ÷Ë ÁŒπÊ „ÒU ©U‚◊¥– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©U‚◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ŒÙ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚„UÿÙªË Õ fl ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ Á¡‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ ¡Ù ¬Êߢ≈U | ¬⁄U ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „ÒU •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •ı⁄U »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë, ©U‚ ∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U „ÒU «UË∞‹ | ∞‚ v}}w– ÿ„U •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ◊¥ Œ¡¸ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù ∑§Ê⁄U „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ŒπË „ÒU ©U‚ ∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ „ÒU–

154 üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©U‚∑§Ê ‚¢‡ÊÙœŸ „U◊Ÿ Œ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù „U◊Ÿ Á÷¡flÊ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— Œflãº˝ ¡Ë– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚Áé‚Äfl¥≈U‹Ë ∞∑§ ‹Ò≈U⁄U Á‹πÊ „ÒU fl„U ‚∑͸§‹≈U ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ù √„UÊß≈U ◊ÊM§Áà ¡ÒŸ ÕË ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ø¥¡ „UÙ ªÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U ◊Ò¥Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ê ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ’Ò∑§ ∑§⁄UÊ∞¢ª ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ ÷Ë Ÿê’⁄U Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U Ÿê’⁄U •Ê¬ Œπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U ‚Ë«UË •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU? •Ê¬ ߟ∑§ ¡flÊ’ ◊¥ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •ª⁄U ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ∑Ò§‚≈U Œπ¥ ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ Ÿê’⁄U ŒπŸ ∑§Ù Á◊‹ªÊ– fl„U ‚Ë«UË •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§’ ŒπË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl„U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§ Á‹∞ π«∏UÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ߟ∑§ ‚flÊ‹ ◊¥ ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ‚flÊ‹ ÁŸ∑§‹ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ÊŸ ªÊ«∏UË •Ê߸-ªÿË ÃÙ fl„U ©U‚ ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ê »§Ù≈UÙ „ÈU•Ê, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¬Ò‚ ‹∑§⁄U ¡Ù Á¡å‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË •Ê߸, ©U‚∑§Ê »§Ù≈UÙ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê? øÊ„U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ •◊⁄UÁ‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙ ÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙ– •Ê¬∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¢ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „UÙªÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù ≈UÁÄŸ∑§‹ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U ©UŸ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „U٪ʖ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ◊⁄UÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë ÃÙ „Ò¥U Ÿ„UË¥, ◊Ò¥ ©U‚‚ Á◊‹Ê Ÿ„UË¥, ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ‡ÊÊÿŒ ¬Í⁄UÊ Á«U≈U‹ „U٪ʖ ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ŒÙSà ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ù ŒπÊ „ÒU ÿÊ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ∑§Ù Œπ∑§⁄U „UË •Ê¬ ‚Ùø ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∞‚Ê „U٪ʖ •Ê¬Ÿ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπË „ÒU? •Ê¬ ¬˝ÖÿÍ◊ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ©U‚∑§Ù „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— fl„U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ◊ÒŸ ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ „UË ÕÊ, fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ªÿÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ¡Ò‚ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù vw ‚Ê…∏U vw ’¡, y Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ¬„È¢Uø Õ– ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§Ù߸ •ÊÒ⁄U ÕÊ ÿÊ •∑§‹ ¬„È¢Uø Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ w ‹«∏U∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U Õ ©UŸ∑§Ù „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ Á¡∑˝§ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ê⁄U ‚ •Ê∞– ÿ„U ÷Ë ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚∑§Ë »§Ù≈UÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ ‹«∏U∑§Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ÕÊ– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ©U‚ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ’Òª ‹∑§⁄U ∑§ıŸ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ? •Ê¬Ÿ •÷Ë ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ •Ê∞ Õ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ©UŸ∑§Ê ‚„UÿÙªË •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ ŒπÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§ øÒê’⁄U ◊¥ ¡Ù √ÿÁÄà ’Òª ‹ ∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U ∑§Ù߸ ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— fl„U √ÿÁÄà ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ê ‚„UÿÙªË ÕÊ– ©Uã„UË¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ fl„U √ÿÁÄà •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– fl„U ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ, ©U‚ „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ’Òª ∑§Ù fl„UË √ÿÁÄà ©U∆UÊ ∑§⁄U ‹ÊÿÊ ÕÊ–

155 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ¡Ù ’Òª „UÊ©U‚ ∑§Ë ≈U’‹ ¬⁄U ÁŒπÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ¡Ù ’Òª »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ „U◊Ÿ ŒπÊ „ÒU, ©UŸ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ◊¥ •¢Ã⁄U „ÒU– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ’Òª ’Œ‹Ê ÕÊ? øÍ¢Á∑§ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ’ÒªÙ¥ ◊¥ •¢Ã⁄U „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ‚flÊ‹ ©U∆UŸÊ flÊÁ¡’ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á¡‚◊¥ fl ‹Ùª ŸÙ≈U ‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞ Õ, ©U‚ ’Òª ∑§Ù fl flÊÁ¬‚ ‹ ª∞ Õ– ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ å‹ÊÁS≈U∑§ ∑§Ë ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ÕË, Á¡‚◊¥ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬Ò‚ ⁄Uπ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „UË ß‚ ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ◊¥ ŸÙ≈U ⁄Uπ– „U◊ ¡Ù ’Òª „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞ Õ, fl„U „U◊¥ ¬Ë∞‚Ë ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ◊¥ Á◊‹Ê ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ ’Òª ÷Ë ÕÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ∞∑§ ’Òª ◊¥ ÖÿÊŒÊ ¬Ò‚ «UÊ‹Ÿ ∑§ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ fl„U »Í§‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë, ÄÿÊ ß‚ ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ◊¥ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÊ •Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë Á’À∑ȧ‹, ß‚ ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ◊¥ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÊ •Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ù ’Òª ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ÕÊ, fl„U ’«∏UÊ ‹ª ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ∞∑§ Œ◊ fl„U ‚ËœÊ ⁄UπÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •Ê¬ •ª⁄U ß‚ ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ∑§Ù πÙ‹¥ª, ÃÙ ÿ„U ÷Ë ’„ÈUà ’«∏UÊ ‹ªªÊ– •Ê¬ øÊ„¥U, ÃÙ ß‚ ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ∑§Ù Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§ Á‹∞ ⁄Uπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ „U◊Ÿ ŒπÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ’ÊÃøËà „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ fl„U ’Ù‹ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÄÿÊ ¬Ò‚ ’Òª ◊¥ «UÊ‹ ŒÍ¢– ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ „UË fl„U ’Òª ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, ÿ„UË ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ’Òª ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚ ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ∞Áfl«¥U‚ ∑§ Á‹∞ ⁄Uπ ‹Ã „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ß‚ ⁄Uπ ‹Ã „Ò¥U– „U◊ ÷Ë ß‚ ¬ÊÁ‹ÕËŸ ◊¥ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÊ ÷⁄U ∑§⁄U Œπ¥ª Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, ÿ„U ÃÙ ŒπŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •Ê¬ •÷Ë ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ L§¬ÿÊ ‹Ê ∑§⁄U Œπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „U◊Ÿ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ ŒπÊ Á∑§ ¡Ù ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ √ÿÁÄà ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚Ÿ ¬Ò‚Ù¥ ∑§Ê ’Òª •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ⁄Uπ ÁŒÿÊ– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á»§⁄U ‚ ≈U’‹ ¬⁄U ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ù ‚¡ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ, ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ù ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ê ªÿÊ– ß‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ¬⁄U Á∑§‚Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄UÊ߸ ªß¸– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ê ¡Ù ◊Ù’Êß‹ Ÿê’⁄U „ÒU, •Ê¬ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ë ∑§Ê‹ fl⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄UflÊ ‹¥ Á∑§ Á∑§Ÿ Ÿê’⁄UÙ¥ ¬⁄U ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë ªß¸ „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬Í⁄UÊ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U Á◊‹ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸ ÕË– „U◊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ‹ı≈U ∑§⁄U •Ê∞ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¬Ò‚Ê ⁄UπŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬∑§ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ øÊ⁄U •ÊŒ◊Ë ÁŒπÊ߸ ÁŒ∞– ß‚ ÉÊ≈UŸÊ∑˝§◊ ◊¥ ¡Ù øÊ⁄U ‹Ùª ÁŒπÊ߸ ÁŒ∞, fl ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ, •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ‹Ùª Õ– Á‚hÊÕ¸, ªıÃ◊, ‚ÈœË⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ Õ–

156 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ ¡’ Sfl× ßã„¥U ¡ÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ, Ã’ •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ‚ÙøÊ Á∑§ ßã„¥U ⁄UÙ∑§ ∑§⁄U ⁄UπÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU ÿÊ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ¬Ò‚Ê „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ‹Ê∞ „Ò¥U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù fl„UÊ¢ ÷Ë Áª⁄Uçà ◊¥ ⁄UπÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÃÒŸÊà ÕË– ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù fl„UÊ¢ ÷Ë Áª⁄UçÃÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UflÊ ‚∑§Ã Õ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡’ Ã∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ⁄U„U, Ã’ Ã∑§ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ߢáÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÃÒŸÊà Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡’ Ã∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ⁄U„U, Ã’ Ã∑§ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ê ߢáÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÃÒŸÊà „ÈU߸ ÕË– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ ¬Ò‚Ù¥ ‚ ÷⁄UÊ ’Òª •Ê¬∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ ¬⁄U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U •Ê¬ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ◊¥ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ß‚∑§ ◊ÈÃÊÁ’∑§ ŒÙ¬„U⁄U ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬‚ ‚◊ÿ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— vv ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚¬Ê‚ ∑§Ê ‚◊ÿ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, vv ’¡ ¬Ò‚Ê •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ •ÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ‚¢¡Ëfl •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê∞ √ÿÁÄà ∑§Ù ¿UÙ«∏U ÁŒÿÊ– ÄÿÊ ÿ ‹Ùª ©U‚Ë Á¡å‚Ë ‚ ‹ı≈U ª∞ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á¡‚ flÊ„UŸ ‚ fl •Ê∞¢ª, ©U‚Ë flÊ„UŸ ‚ ÃÙ fl ‹ı≈¥Uª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ù ‚¢¬∑¸§ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ◊¥ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U Á∑§‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ fl ‹Ùª ‹ı≈U, ÿ„U ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§ πà ◊¥ ©UÀ‹π „ÒU Á∑§ Á¡å‚Ë Ÿê’⁄U »§‹Ê¢-»§‹Ê¢ ◊¥ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ L§¬ÿÊ ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬∑§Ù Á¡å‚Ë Ÿê’⁄U ∑Ò§‚ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÈU•Ê? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á¡å‚Ë Ÿê’⁄U „U◊Ê⁄U •ÊflÊ‚ ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U π«∏U S≈UÊ»§ ∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë Ÿ ŸÙ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ •Ê¬∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ¬Í⁄UË „UÙ ªß¸ ÕË, Ã’ •Ê¬ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ ∑§Ù ’Ê„U⁄U Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§ Á‹∞ ÷Ë ‹ªÊ ‚∑§Ã Õ, Á¡‚‚ Á∑§ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ¡ÊÃÊ Á∑§ ß‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË ‚ fl ‹Ùª ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ß‚‚ ©Uã„¥U ‡Ê∑§ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ •Ê¬Ÿ ©Uã„¥U Á’‹∑ȧ‹ ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªŸ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÄÿÊ „U◊ ©Uã„¥U ’ÃÊ ∑§⁄U Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã Õ? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊⁄‘U ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ •¢Œ⁄U Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „UÙ ªß¸ ÕË, Ã’ •Ê¬ ’Ê„U⁄U ÷Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§⁄UflÊ ‚∑§Ã Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬Ò‚Ê Œ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ, •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬˝◊ÊáÊ Á◊‹ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ∑§Ù߸ „UÁÕÿÊ⁄U „UÙÃÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— fl •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê ∑§⁄U „UÁÕÿÊ⁄U ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹Ê ‚∑§Ã Õ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– ∑§Ù߸ ¬Í¿U ∑§⁄U ÃÙ ÿ„U ∑§Ê◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄‘UªÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù «UÊ©U≈U „ÈU•Ê Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ „UÁÕÿÊ⁄U „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ◊⁄UÊ ¬Á⁄UflÊ⁄U ÷Ë ◊⁄‘U •ÊflÊ‚ ¬⁄U ÕÊ–

157 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù •¢Œ‡ÊÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ „UÁÕÿÊ⁄U „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU ß‚Á‹∞ •Ê¬Ÿ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ù ‚ÍøŸÊ ŒŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ ◊ı¡ÍŒ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ê ¬Á⁄UflÊ⁄U ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ ÕÊ– ¡’ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ⁄UπÊ ªÿÊ, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù «U⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ⁄UÊà ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬∞ ∑§ Á‹∞ •≈ÒU∑§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— vv ’¡ ÿ„U ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ÉÊ≈UË– ©U‚Ë ÁŒŸ ‚Ê…∏U øÊ⁄U ’¡ Ã∑§ ÿ„U ¬Ò‚Ê ∑§„UÊ¢ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÃËŸ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚-¬Ê‚ „U◊ ©U‚ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ù „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ‹ •Ê∞ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚ ÁŒŸ •Ê¬ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ Á∑§‚ ª≈U ‚ •Ê∞ Õ? ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ „UË ’Òª ‹ ∑§⁄U •Ê∞ Õ ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÷Ë ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÙ¥ ‚ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ‹ ‹ËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ „U◊ Á∑§‚ ª≈U ‚ •Ê∞ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ¬Ò‚ ‹ ∑§⁄U ‚Ëœ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ „UË •Ê ª∞? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •Ê¬ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ „U◊ ∑§„UÊ¢-∑§„UÊ¢ ª∞ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ÃËŸ ’¡ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê∞, •Ê¬ ‚Ê…∏U øÊ⁄U ’¡ ∑§ ∑§⁄UË’ •Ê∞ Õ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë, ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ •ª⁄U •Ê¬‚ ∑ȧ¿U ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÃÙ •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ê ‚ËœÊ ©UûÊ⁄U ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ „U◊ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U „UÊ©U‚ ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U „UË Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¡Ù ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË „ÒU, fl„U •Ê¬ „U◊¥ ŒËÁ¡∞– •Ê¬‚ ¡Ù ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§Ê ©UûÊ⁄U •Ê¬ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ŒËÁ¡∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ Á∑§‚ ª≈U ‚ •Ê¬ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U •Ê∞– fl„U ¬Ò‚Ê •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ¢ ⁄UπÊ, •¬Ÿ ¬Ê‚ ⁄UπÊ ÿÊ ∑§„UË¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ⁄UπÊ– •Ê¬ ßã„¥U ’ÃÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ª≈U Ÿê’⁄U øÊ⁄U ‚ „U◊ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U •Ê∞ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ò‚Ê •Ê¬ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÃËŸ ’¡ •Ê¬ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ •Ê∞– •Ê¬Ÿ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ≈U’‹ ¬⁄U Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ ¬Ò‚Ê ⁄UπÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‹ª÷ª øÊ⁄U ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚-¬Ê‚ ¬Ò‚Ê ‚÷ʬ≈U‹ ¬⁄U ⁄UπÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ÃËŸ ‚ øÊ⁄U ’¡ ∑§ ’Ëø ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ Õ? ∞∑§ ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U •Ê¬ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ∑§⁄UŸ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã Õ– ‚ŒŸ ¬≈U‹ ¬⁄U „UË L§¬ÿÊ ⁄UπŸ ∑§Ê •Ê¬Ÿ ÁŸáʸÿ Á‹ÿÊ, ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ Sflÿ¢ ÁŸáʸÿ Á‹ÿÊ ÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë å‹ÊŸ ∑§ ÄUà ÁŸáʸÿ Á‹ÿÊ– ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚ŒŸ ‡Ê◊¸‚Ê⁄U „ÈU•Ê– •ª⁄U •Ê¬ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ øÒê’⁄U ◊¥ Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ∑§⁄UÃ, ÃÙ ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ê ◊Ò≈U⁄U Œ‡Ê ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê „UË ¡ÊÃÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊Ÿ ©UÁøà ‚◊¤ÊÊ Á∑§ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ∞‚Ê Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞ Á∑§ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ë π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë ¡Ê ⁄U„UË „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ë ÁŸÿ◊Êfl‹Ë ∑§Ê äÿÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UπÊ– ÿ„U •‹ª ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ÁŸÿ◊Ù¥ ∑§Ù äÿÊŸ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UπÊ–

158 •Ê¬Ÿ Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà Œ¡¸ ∑§Ë, ∆UË∑§ „ÒU ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ Õ, ¡’ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ øÒê’⁄U ◊¥ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ •¬ŸË ◊ıÁπ∑§ Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà Œ¡¸ ∑§Ë– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ wx ÃÊ⁄UËπ •Ê ªß¸, wy ÃÊ⁄UËπ •Ê߸ ªß¸ •ÊÒ⁄U wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ê¬Ÿ Á‹Áπà ◊¥ Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ŒË– ŒÙ ÁŒŸÙ¥ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÁflÁœflà Á‹Áπà Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà Œ¡¸ ∑§Ë– Á‹Áπà Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà Œ¡¸ ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ ∑§Ê»§Ë Áfl‹ê’ „ÈU•Ê– ß‚∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊¥ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ∑§Êª¡ Á◊‹Ê ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê⁄U‹ Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ∑§⁄U ŒË ÕË, ß‚∑§ ’Êfl¡ÍŒ Á‹Áπà Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà •Ê¬Ÿ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Œ¡¸ ∑§Ë– Á‹Áπà Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ Áfl‹¢’ „UÙŸ ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ⁄UÊ¡SÕÊŸ ◊¥ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ê◊ ‚ ª∞ Õ– øÍ¢Á∑§ fl „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ Õ, ß‚Á‹∞ Á‹Áπà Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà ∑§⁄UÃ ‚◊ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ê „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ „UÙŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •ª¸‹ ¡Ë, ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ¡Ù ‚È„U‹ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, •Ê¬ ߟ∑§Ù ∑§’ ‚ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà wv ∑§Ù „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ‚È„U‹ ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ‚ ◊⁄UË ¡ÊŸ-¬„UøÊŸ wv ∑§Ù „ÈU߸ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— wv ∑§Ù „UË ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ÄÿÊ ©U‚∑§ ¬„U‹ ∑§÷Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§„UË¥ ≈U∑§⁄UÊ ªÿ „UÙ¥ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ŸÊ◊ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— fl„U ’„ÈUà ċ١ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ– ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë, „U◊ ÿ„U ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ‹Ë-◊ÒÁ⁄UÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ª∞, ¡Ò‚Ê ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ‚’ å‹ÊÁŸ¢ª ÕË– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ŸÙÁ≈U‚ ◊¥ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ÷Ë •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ‹ª Õ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‹∑§⁄U ª∞ Õ– fl„UÊ¢ πÈÁ»§ÿÊ Ã¢òÊ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— fl„UÊ¢ ÷Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „ÈU߸ „ÒU Á¡‚-Á¡‚ ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ’ÊÃøËà Á∑§‚Ë ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ¬ÊÿË „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ‚ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª Á»§Ä‚ „ÈU߸ ÕË– ŒÈ÷ʸÇÿ ∑§„¥U ÿÊ ¡Ù ÷Ë ∑§„¥U fl„U Á’¡Ë Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚ ’Ëø ◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ê •ÊŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê– ß‚ ’Ëø ‚◊ÿ ∑§ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ ©UŸ‚ ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà „UÙŸË ÕË, fl„U „UÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÊÿË– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ÄÿÊ ’ÃÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— fl„U ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ◊¥ √ÿSà Õ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— fl„U Á∑§‚Ë √ÿSÃÃÊ ◊¥ ‹ª „UÙ¥ª– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— fl„U •‹ª Á∑§‚Ë ¡ª„U Õ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •ª¸‹ ¡Ë, ¡’ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬Ò‚Ê Œ ⁄U„U Õ, fl„U •Ê¬∑§ ’ª‹ ◊¥ ’Ò∆U Õ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§Ë ’ª‹ ◊¥ ’Ò∆U Õ– •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ≈U’‹ ¬«∏UË „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ¬Ë¿U ∞∑§ •ÊflÊ¡ •Ê ⁄U„UË ÕË, ÁŒπÊÿË Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ, »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ? ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ’Ëø-’Ëø ◊¥ ¡Ù •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∞∑§ ≈U’‹ ¬«∏UË ÕË, ©U‚∑§ ¬Ë¿U ‚ ∞∑§ •ÊflÊ¡ •Ê ⁄U„UË ÕË– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— fl„U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ÕË– 159 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— Á¡‚ Ÿ „UÊ»§ ¬Ò¥≈U ¬„UŸË ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÈ’‹Ê ‚Ê ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— fl„U •ÊŒ◊Ë ÁŒπÊÿË Ÿ„UË¥ ¬«∏U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „UÊ»§ ¬Ò¥≈U Á¡‚Ÿ ¬„UŸË ÕË, fl„U ‚È„U‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— fl„U •ÊŒ◊Ë ¡Ù ÁŒπÊÿË Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ÄÿÊ fl„U ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë Õ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ◊⁄‘U ’Ê¡Í ◊¥ ’Ò∆U Õ– ß‚Á‹∞ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU ÁŒπÊÿË Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„U „UÙ¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‹Ë-◊ÒÁ⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ◊¥ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¡Ò‚Ê •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ⁄UÊà ÿÊ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ª∞– ‚È„U‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ, fl„U •Ê¬∑§Ù ‹∑§⁄U ªÿÊ, „UÙ≈U‹ ’„ÈUà ’«∏UÊ „ÒU, Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ê⁄UáÊfl‡Ê ’Ò∆U∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸, •‹ª ’Êà „ÒU– „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ¢ ª∞ Õ? ÄÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ∑§◊⁄UÊ ’È∑§ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊ ª˝Ê©¢U«U ç‹Ù⁄U ◊¥ ’Ò∆U Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ’Ê∑§Ë ŒÍ‚⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∑§Ù߸ ‚Ê¢‚Œ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∞∑§ ¬Á⁄UÁøÃÙ¥ ◊¥ ‚ Õ– „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚Ê◊Êãÿ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ù߸ ß‚ Áfl·ÿ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ∑§fl‹ Á◊òÊÃÊ ∑§ Ãı⁄U ¬⁄U ’ÊÃøËà „UÙÃË ⁄U„UË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡ÊŸ-¬„UøÊŸ ∑§ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ŒπŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸– •Ê¬∑§Ù ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÃÙ Á∑§ÃŸË Œ⁄U ∑§ ’ÊŒ flʬ‚ •Ê ª∞? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¬Í⁄‘U flÊÃÊfl⁄UáÊ ∑§Ù ŒπŸ ‚ ∞∑§ ’Êà ÿ„U ‹ªÃË „ÒU Á∑§ flÊSÃfl ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ÕË– ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§Ë ŒÎÁc≈U ‚ øÍ¢Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ß‚◊¥ ŸÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ù«∏UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊⁄‘U ¬Ífl¸ ¬Á⁄UÁøÃÙ¥ ◊¥ ¤ÊÊ⁄Uπ¢«U ∑§ ◊ÈÅÿ◊¢òÊË Õ– ©UŸ‚ Ÿ◊S∑§Ê⁄U „ÈU߸ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ◊S∑§Ê⁄U „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ fl„U ÕÙ«∏UË Œ⁄U ∑§ ’ÊŒ ’Ê„U⁄U ÁŸ∑§‹ ª∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ¡Ù ‚¢flÊŒ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ Á‡ÊÁfl⁄U ‹ªÊ ÕÊ– øÍ¢Á∑§ •Ê¬ ª∞ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ– •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ¬„È¢Uø ÃÙ ÄÿÊ ∞‚Ê ‹ªÊ Á∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U ‹Ùª ÷Ë •ÊŸÊ-¡ÊŸÊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, Á◊‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ◊Ò¥ ‹ª÷ª •ÊœÊ ÉÊ¢≈UÊ L§∑§Ê– ©UŸ◊¥ ‚ ŒÙ ŸÊ◊ ’ÃÊ∞– „U◊Ê⁄UË ßŸ‚ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË– øÍ¢Á∑§ ¬Á⁄UÁøÃÙ¥ ◊¥ ‚ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÙ ¬Á⁄UÁøÃÙ¥ ◊¥ ‚ ∞‚ ‹Ùª ÁŸ∑§‹ Á¡Ÿ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË Ÿ◊S∑§Ê⁄U „ÈU߸– ∞∑§ ‚ ∑§⁄UË’ ¬Ê¢ø ‚ Œ‚ Á◊Ÿ≈U ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸– ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‚Ù»§ ◊¥ ’Ò∆U ∑§⁄U ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á∑§‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU? ÄÿÊ ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚‚ ‚¢’¢ÁœÃ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ∑§fl‹ •Ÿı¬øÊÁ⁄U∑§ ’Êà „ÈU߸– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ Õ? ∞∑§ ÃÙ ¤ÊÊ⁄Uπ¢«U ∑§ ◊ÈÅÿ◊¢òÊË Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∞∑§ •¬Ê¢ª ¡Ë ∑§Ê ’≈UÊ ÕÊ ¡Ù øË»§ Á◊ÁŸS≈U⁄U ∑§Ê ’≈UÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡Ù ªËªı¥ª-•¬Ê¢ª ∑§Ê ’≈UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ∑§ãº˝Ëÿ ◊¢òÊË ÷Ë ’Ÿ Õ– fl„U ≈ÍUÁ⁄UÖÔ◊ ∑§ S≈U≈U Á◊ÁŸS≈U⁄U ’Ÿ Õ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl„UÊ¢ Á∑§‚Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË?

160 üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ∑§fl‹ •Ÿı¬øÊÁ⁄U∑§ „ÒU‹Ù-„UÊÿ „UÙÃË ⁄U„UË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚ Áfl·ÿ ¬⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ∑Ò§‚ •Ê ª∞? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡’ „U◊ ‹Ë-◊ÒÁ⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ‚ ‹ı≈U ÃÙ ⁄UÊà ∑§ ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚-¬Ê‚ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ◊¥ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë •Ê∞– fl„U ∑Ò§‚ •Ê∞, ÄÿÊ „ÒU, Á∑§‚ ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ◊ȤÊ ß‚∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬⁄UãÃÈ ©UŸ∑§Ê Á¡‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê •Êª˝„U ÕÊ Á∑§ øÁ‹∞, •÷Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U, ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà „UÙÃË ⁄U„UË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ Œπ ¬Ê∞ „Ò¥U, ¡Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ‚ÈŸ ¬Ê∞ „Ò¥U, ’Ëø ∑§Ë ∑§„UÊŸË ‚ÈŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÒU ÃÙ ’ÃÊ∞¢– „U◊Ÿ ©U‚ ‚ÈŸÊ ÃÙ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ •÷Ë ÷Ë S¬c≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU Á∑§ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞ ÃÙ ©U‚∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „ÈU߸– •ª⁄U fl„U ¬˝Ë∞åÿÚÊÁã≈U«U Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ Á∑§ fl„U •ÊŸ flÊ‹ „Ò¥U ÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ •ÊÒ⁄U •ÊŸ flÊ‹Ê „ÒU ÃÙ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U flÊ‹Ê ßÃŸË ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù Á‚⁄U ¬⁄U ’Ò∆UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪ʖ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊⁄UÊ ß‚◊¥ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿê’⁄U •ÊÒ⁄U ‚È„U‹ ∑§ Ÿê’⁄U ∑§Ë Á«U≈UÀ‚ Œπ ‹¥ Á∑§ ∑§’ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ∑Ò§‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ‚È„U‹ ∑§Ë ∑§„UÊŸË ‚ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊŸ ∑§Ê ¡Ù«∏U „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ ©U‚ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— Á∑§‚Ë ‚ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ◊ŸÊ„UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– Anybody can speak to anyone at any time. üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊⁄‘U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ◊Ȥʂ ∑§÷Ë ÷Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •ª¸‹ ¡Ë, ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ßÃŸË ’«∏UË ’Êà ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ‹Ÿ-ŒŸ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ⁄UÊà vw ’¡ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‹ª÷ª Á∑§ÃŸË Œ⁄U ⁄U„U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊⁄‘U ÅÿÊ‹ ◊¥ ‹ª÷ª ∑§◊ ‚ ∑§◊ wÆ-wz Á◊Ÿ≈U ⁄U„U– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ øÊÿ flªÒ⁄U„U •ÊÚ»§⁄U ∑§Ë ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù øÊÿ ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ߢáÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ‚’ ’ìÊ ‚Ù ª∞ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ¢ ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U Õ–

SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: Mr. Chairman, during deposition of the witnesses here, I understand that it is secret deal happened in a particular house. They have also admitted that some Media people were also involved. Do you not feel that it cannot be a secret deal when Media is allowed? Since it has now come to the notice of the House what action you would like to take? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚◊¥ ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ Áfl·ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– Á»§⁄U ÷Ë „U◊¥ ¡Ù ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ’ÊÃøËà ◊¥ ‚ ¡Ù ÁŸ∑§‹ ∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù ¬˝‚ ∑§ Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ Õ, ©UŸ ‚’‚ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§ ’ÊŒ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ’ŸË fl„U ∞Ä‚¬Ù¡ „UÙŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê flÊÃÊfl⁄UáÊ ¬ÒŒÊ „ÈU•Ê, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë øøʸ ◊¥ Á„US‚ŒÊ⁄UË ∑§Ë– üÊË ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •ª¸‹ ‚Ê„U’, ÿ„U ¡Ù •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ¬⁄U ÷Ë ŒπÊ „ÒU, •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ‚ÈŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ •¬Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ

161 ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬Í⁄UË ÃÒÿÊ⁄UË ∑§⁄U∑§ ⁄UπË ÕË– ߟ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ’ÊÃÙ¥ ◊¥ ◊ȤÊ ∑§Êã≈˛UÊÁ«Ućʟ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU ÿÊ ÃÙ •Ê¬§ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà ¿ÈU¬Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË ÿÊ •Ê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ, ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ë ∑§÷Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË, Á»§⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ∑§Ê ߢáÊ◊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Ê⁄UË øË¡Ù¥ ∑§Ù Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄UŸÊ, ÿ ‚Ê⁄UË øË¡¥ ÄÿÙ¥ •ÊÒ⁄U Á∑§‚ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ∑§Ë ªß¸ ÕË¥? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— øÍ¢Á∑§ ◊⁄UÊ ŸÊ◊ ÷Ë ∑§Ê»§Ë Ã⁄U„U ¬Áé‹∑§ ◊¥ ªÿÊ Á∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑˝§ÊÚ‚ flÙÁ≈¢Uª ÿÊ Á’∑§ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ◊È⁄ÒUŸÊ ‚ ÷Ë ∑§ß¸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ »§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„U Õ– Á»§⁄U ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚Ù„U‹ ∑§ Õ˝Í ’Êà „ÈU߸– ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ flÊSÃfl ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§÷Ë ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ∑§fl‹ •øÊŸ∑§ fl„U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U •Êÿ– ‚Ë.∞Ÿ.∞Ÿ., •Ê߸.’Ë.∞Ÿ. ‚ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ªß¸– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ ∑§÷Ë ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ ‚Ê⁄UË ÁS∑˝§å≈U ß‚ ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ∑§Ë ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ „UË Á‹πË ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— fl„U ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚’∑§Ë ‚„U◊Áà ‚ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË, ‚’ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÕË– ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÄÿÊ ‚Ê⁄UË ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ‚Ê„U’ „UË Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Ÿ„UË¥, ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ÃÙ „U◊ ÷Ë Õ, ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ Õ, fl„U Á„US‚Ê Õ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë, ÁS≈¢Uª ∑§⁄UÊŸ ∑§Ê •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ÁŒ◊ʪ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ø∑˝§√ÿÍ„U ∑§ ’ÊŒ •ÊÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÄÿÊ „ÒU, flÊSÃfl ◊¥ ◊⁄UË ∞‚Ë ◊ÊãÿÃÊ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ Á¡‚ ˇÊòÊ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ „Í¢U ÃÙ ÿ„U ‚’ •π’Ê⁄U •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÙ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „UÙÃË ÕË ÃÙ ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ∞‚Ê ‹ªÊ Á∑§ flÊSÃfl ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ ∑Χàÿ ß‚ Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁà ◊¥ „UÙ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ÿ„U ◊Ò¥ •¬Ÿ ◊Ÿ ∑§Ë ’Êà ’ÃÊ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ◊ȤÊ ∞‚Ê ‹ªÊ Á∑§ flÊSÃfl ◊¥ ¡’ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ ¬˝ÿÙ¡Ÿ „UÙÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ÁŒ◊ʪ ◊¥ ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ò‚¡ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, πÈ‹Ê‚Ê „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ •ÊÁπ⁄U ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ ∑Χàÿ ‹Ùª ÄÿÙ¥ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– ÿ„U ∞∑§ ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ÷Êfl ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê ŒÈ⁄Uʪ˝„U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ¬⁄¢UÃÈ ∞∑§ ßë¿UÊ ÿ„UË ÕË Á∑§ ‹Ùª ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ ¬˝ÿÙª ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ„U Œ‡Ê ∑§ Á‹∞ ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ÷Êfl ÕÊ– ÿ„UË ‚Ùø ∑§⁄U∑§ ß‚ ‚Ê⁄‘U ¬˝ÿÙ¡Ÿ ◊¥ „U◊ •Êª ’…∏U Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •øÊŸ∑§ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Êÿ– „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ¡Ù »È§≈U¡ ŒπÊ, ©U‚◊¥ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ∑§ •ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ „UË ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‚Ò≈U ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ¬Í⁄UË øË¡ ¡ÊÃ „ÈU∞ ÁŒπÊ߸ ŒË, ‚Ù»§Ê ‚Ò≈U ∑§Ë ∑ȧ‚˸ ¬⁄U ’Ò∆UÃ „ÈU∞, •øÊŸ∑§ •ÊŸ ∑§ ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§ ’ÊŒ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U •ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ Á»§Ä‚ ÕÊ ÃÙ ≈UÊß◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ¡’ •øÊŸ∑§ •Êÿ ÃÙ ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚ ‚◊ÿ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë •Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ÿ ßã≈UË◊‡ÊŸ ÕË– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ vw ’¡ ∑§ ’ÊŒ •Êÿ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„U ßã≈UË◊‡ÊŸ ¬„U‹ „UÙªÊ Ã÷Ë ÃÙ •Ê¬ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ øÊ‹Í ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄UË ÕË Á∑§ ¡Ù •Êÿ ©U‚ „U◊ ‹¥– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿÊŸË wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ‚ ¬Í⁄UÊ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‹ªÊÿ „ÈU∞ Õ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „UÊ¢, wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ‹ªÊÿÊ ÕÊ–

162 ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„U •¢ŒÊ¡Ê ∑Ò§‚ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ „UË ‹Ùª •Êÿ¥ª, •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UË¥ „UË ∑§Ù߸ •ÊÿªÊ, ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ŒÍ‚⁄UË ¡ª„U ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ ÕÊ, ¡’ •Ê¬‚ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— Á»§⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ∑Ò§‚ ‹ª ªÿÊ, ¡’ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË ÃÙ •ÊŒ◊Ë •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ •ÊÿªÊ, •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬Ò‚Ê ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •ÊÿªÊ, •Ê¬∑§Ù π⁄UËŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •ÊÿªÊ, ÿ„U •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑Ò§‚ ¬ÃÊ ø‹Ê? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ê ¡Ù... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ß‚∑§ Á‹∞ fl„U •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ÿ„U ÉÊ≈UŸÊ „ÈU߸ ÕË ÃÙ •Ê¬ ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë, •Ê¬∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ flªÒ⁄U„U ¡Ù ‹ªÊÿ ªÿ Õ, ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‹ªÊŸ ∑§Ê •¢ŒÊ¡ ÄÿÙ¥ ’ŸÊ, ∑§Ù߸ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •ÊÿªÊ ÿÊ ¬Ò‚Ê ŒªÊ, ÿ„U fl„UË¥ ¬⁄U ÄÿÙ¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ‚’ √ÿflSÕÊ ß‚Á‹∞ ∑§Ë ªß¸ Á∑§ ∑§◊ ‚ ∑§◊ ÿ øË¡¥ ©U¡Êª⁄U „UÙ¥, ÿÁŒ ∑§Ù߸ •Êÿ– ∞∑§-ŒÙ •ÊÒ⁄U ÷Ë ‚Ö¡Ÿ „U◊‚ ß‚ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊‚ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§... ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ¬˝Ò‚ ◊¥ ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ wz ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ◊¥ Á’∑§ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– Á»§⁄U ÿ„U ¡Ù ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU, ¡Ù •Ê¬∑§Ù ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ, fl„U ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U „UË ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ ∑§◊-ÖÿÊŒÊ ÷Ë ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U •Ê¬ ©Uã„UË¥ ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹Ù– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U Á∑§Ÿ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹¥? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¬ÈÁc≈U ∑§Ë „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§Ù ¡’ •Ê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ ÃÙ „U◊ ÄÿÊ ¡ÊŸÃ „UÙ¥ª– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¬ÈÁc≈U „ÈU߸ „ÒU, •Ê¬ ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞, •Ê¬ ∑Ò§‚ •Êÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÿ„UÊ¢, „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á∑§Ÿ-Á∑§Ÿ ≈U‹Ë»§Ùã‚ ¬⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ë, ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‚ ≈UÊfl⁄UÙ¥ ‚ ©UŸ∑§Ê ‚¢¬∑¸§ ⁄U„UÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ∑§„UË¥ ŒÍ‚⁄UË ¡ª„U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢, ∑ȧ‹SÃ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ •ÊÒ⁄U ¡ª„U ¬Ò‚Ê ªÿÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¬Í¿U ‹Ã, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ Á◊‹ªÊ Ã’ ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ©U‚ ¿UÙ«∏U ÁŒÿÊ, •Ê¬ ©Uã„¥U ¬∑§«∏U∑§⁄U ⁄UπÃ Ã’ ¬Í¿UÃ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ ∞∑§-∞∑§ ∑§⁄U∑§ ¬ÍÁ¿Uÿ, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ ∑§ŸçÿÍ¡Ÿ „UÙ ¡ÊÿªÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’Êà ¡’ ¬Ò‚ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ vv ’¡ •Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ¬≈U‹ ¬⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ¬Ò‚Ê øÊ⁄U ’¡∑§⁄U ∑ȧ¿U Á◊Ÿ≈U ¬⁄U ⁄UπÊ ÃÙ ¡Ù ¬Ê¢ø ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§Ê ‚◊ÿ ⁄U„UÊ, •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê •ÊŸ ◊¥ Á∑§ÃŸÊ ‚◊ÿ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÉÊ⁄U ‚ „U◊ Ãà∑§Ê‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿ– „U◊ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ Ãà∑§Ê‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŸ∑§‹ Õ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÉÊ⁄U ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŸ∑§‹– •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ù S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù Œ∑§⁄U ∑§ê¬‹ã≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ©UÁøà ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÊ– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ Á∑§ ÿ„U ‹Êßfl ≈UÁ‹∑§ÊS≈U „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ß‚‚ ∑§fl‹ •Ê¬ Á∑§‚Ë ∞∑§ øË¡ ∑§Ù ©U¡Êª⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ’ÁÀ∑§ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸ ∑§Ë ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊Òã≈U ∑§Ê, ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ê, Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸ ∑§ „U⁄U ∞◊.¬Ë. ∑§Ê, Á¡‚◊¥ •Ê¬ ÷Ë ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ „Ò¥U, „U◊ ÷Ë ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ „Ò¥U, „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê⁄‘U ◊Òê’‚¸ ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ „Ò¥U, ¬Ê¢ø ‚ı øÊ‹Ë‚ ‹Ùª ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê

163 ∑§ ‹Ùª ÷Ë ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ „Ò¥U– ‚Ê⁄UË ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ◊¥ ß‚∑§Ë ’ŒŸÊ◊Ë „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U „UÙªË •ÊÒ⁄U ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ‹ÊŸÊ ÿ„U ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ë •fl◊ÊŸŸÊ ÷Ë „ÒU, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ß‚∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ‚’ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ÕË, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ë „U◊Ÿ ¬Í⁄UË ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ∑§Ù ß‚Á‹∞ ÁŒπÊÿÊ Á∑§ ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U ’øÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§ ¬˝ÿÊ‚ Á∑§ÿ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U «UÁ‹’⁄‘U≈U‹Ë Á∑§ÿÊ– ¬Í⁄UË ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ◊¥ ‚¢‚Œ ∑§Ù ’ŒŸÊ◊ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ê ¡ÊŸ’ͤÊ∑§⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§Ê◊ Á∑§ÿÊ– •Ê¬ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊Ÿ ‚¢‚Œ ∑§Ù ’ŒŸÊ◊ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ Ÿ„UË¥, „U◊Ÿ ß‚Á‹∞ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U ’øÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ Á∑§Ÿ- Á∑§Ÿ „UÕ∑¢§«UÙ¥ ∑§Ê ©U¬ÿÙª Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ÷Ë fl„U ¬Ò‚Ê Œ∑§⁄U ’ÃÊÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— fl„U „U◊Ÿ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ©UÁøà Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ∑§ •ŸÈ¬Ê‹ŸËÿ ÁŸÿ◊ ∑§Ê ©UÀ‹¢ÉÊŸ ∑§⁄UÃ „ÈU∞ •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù ¡ÊŸ’ͤÊ∑§⁄U ÿ„U ∑§Ê◊ Á∑§ÿÊ– ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ¬⁄UflÊ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë Á∑§ ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ∞∑§ Áfl‡Ê·ÊÁœ∑§Ê⁄U „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷Ë „ÒU, „U◊ ‚’ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‚ŒŸ ∑§ Áfl‡Ê·ÊÁœ∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê ÷Ë ©UÀ‹¢ÉÊŸ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ë •fl◊ÊŸŸÊ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U „UÊÕ ◊¥ ÁŸÿ◊ ∑§Ë Á∑§ÃÊ’ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ „U◊ Œπ ‹Ã– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ÕË, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ÁŸÿ◊ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– ÁŸÿ◊ ÃÙ •Ê¬ ¡ÊŸÃ „UË Õ– •Ê¬ ‚¡ª ‚ŒSÿ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬Ÿ ¡ÊŸ’ͤÊ∑§⁄U •fl◊ÊŸŸÊ ∑§Ë „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ øÊ⁄U ‚Ê‹ ‚ ‚¢‚Œ ‚ŒSÿ „Ò¥U– ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ÃÙ ◊¢òÊË ÷Ë Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬‚ •Õ¸ ÁŸ∑§‹ÃÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ¬≈U‹ ¬⁄U Á∑§‚Ë ÷Ë øË¡ ∑§Ù ŒŸÊ ∑¢§≈ÒUêå≈U •Ê»§ „UÊ©U‚ ◊ÊŸÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU– ÿ„U ÃÙ •Ê¬ ¡ÊŸÃ „UË „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ë •ŸÈ◊Áà ‹ŸË ¬«∏UÃË „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UŸÊ ÷Ë øÊ„U ⁄U„U Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ‡ÊÊÿŒ ≈UÙ∑§Ê-≈UÊ∑§Ë ø‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ù ¡Ÿ ªÊ«∏UË fl„UÊ¢ ªß¸, ¡Ù flËÁ«UÿÙ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ŒπÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ «˛UÊßfl⁄U •ÊÒ⁄U ¡Ò‚ •Ê¬ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ ¬Ë¿U ∑§ıŸ ’Ò∆UÊ „ÒU, ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë ‚Ê»§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ’Ò∆UÊ ÷Ë „ÒU Á∑§ Ÿ„UË¥, ÿ„U ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ŒËπÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑ȧ¿U ‡ÊˇÊÙ¥ ∑§ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚‚ ‚Ê»§ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ •Ê¬ ©U‚◊¥ ªÿ– ŒÍ‚⁄‘U •Ê¬Ÿ ÿÊ ∑ȧ‹SÃ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ •ÊœÊ ÉÊ¢≈UÊ ⁄U„U– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢, ‹ª÷ª •ÊœÊ ÉÊ¢≈U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„U–

164 ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‹Á∑§Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ◊¥ ÃÙ ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄U Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U „UË ªÊ«∏UË flʬ‚ •Ê ¡ÊÃË „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ∑§Ê»§Ë ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë– •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ‚ ÷Ë ’ÊÃøËà •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§⁄UÊ߸– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©U‚◊¥ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ-‚ÊÕ ¬„U‹ ÃÙ „U◊Ÿ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U «˛UÊ߸ »˝Í§≈U˜‚ flªÒ⁄U„U ÷Ë πÊÿ, ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ‚¢ÅÿÊ ∑§Ë ‹ª÷ª ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà „ÒU– øÍ¢Á∑§ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë Ÿ ’Êà ∑§Ë „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ß‚Á‹∞ •ŸÈ¬ÁSÕà ⁄U„UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ „U◊ ÃËŸ-ÃËŸ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ Œ¥ª– ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, Á»§⁄U ©U‚ ’Ëø ◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ‚ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑¢§»§◊¸ Á∑§ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ßÃŸË ’ÊÃøËà „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑§Ê»§Ë ∞‚ „UË ’ÊÃøËà „UÙÃË ⁄U„UË– Á»§⁄U ‚ı„U‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÷Ê߸ ∑ȧ¿U ≈UÙ∑§Ÿ ◊ŸË, ÃÙ fl •¬ŸË ‚„U◊Áà ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U „UÙ ªÿ Á∑§ ÷߸ •Ê¬ ‹ ¡Ê∞¢, ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „UË ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§ Á‹∞ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U „UÙ ªÿ Á∑§ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‡Ê· ¬Ò‚Ê Œ ŒŸÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „UË ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ’Ê∑§Ë „U◊ ww ∑§ ’ÊŒ ... ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ∞ª˝Ë Á∑§∞ „UÙ¥ª Á∑§ •Ê¬ ww ∑§ ’ÊŒ •ÊÒ⁄U Œ ŒŸÊ– flÙÁ≈¢Uª ‚ ¡’ •Ê¬ ∞é‚≈UŸ ∑§⁄U Œ¥ª, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Œ ŒŸÊ– ß‚ ’Êà ∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê¬ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U „UÙ ªÿ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ fl„UË¥ ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ... ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ê ‚ıŒÊ ÃËŸ-ÃËŸ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U ◊¥ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ ÃÙ •Ê∆U ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÊ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê¬ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U „ÈU∞ Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ww ∑§ ’ÊŒ Œ ŒËÁ¡ÿ, ÿ„U ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ Õ, fl •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ©Uã„¥U ‚ÊÕ Á‹ÿ Á’ŸÊ „UË ø‹ ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ªÿË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥, ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ⁄UÊà ◊¥ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ’ÊÃøËà ◊¥ ‚È’„U »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ≈UÊß◊ ∑§Ê Ãÿ „ÈU•Ê Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë fl≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚Ê…∏U Ÿı-¬ıŸ Œ‚ ’¡ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ¡Ò‚ „UË »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ, „U◊ ‹Ùª •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥ ... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— »§ÙŸ Á∑§‚∑§Ê •ÊÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— »§ÙŸ ‚ÈœË⁄U ¡Ë ∑§Ê •ÊÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ Á‹ÿ ÁŸ◊¢òÊáÊ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê ... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ ‚ÈœË⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹ÿ?

üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢, ©UŸ∑§ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥– Á»§⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ ¡Ë, „U◊ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ÃÕÊ «˛UÊßfl⁄U—øÊ⁄U ‹Ùª ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ ∑§Ë ¬Í⁄UË ≈UË◊ ÷Ë ªß¸– Á¡‚ ‚◊ÿ »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ, „U◊ ‹Ùª ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ •Êª-¬Ë¿U ªÿ– ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà ©UŸ‚ „ÈU߸ ÕË, fl„UÊ¢ „U◊ ‹Ùª ‚Ëœ ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U ª≈U πÈ‹Ÿ ¬⁄U •¢Œ⁄U •Êÿ– Á»§⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ë– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë– ÃÙ ©Uã„¥U „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ øÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ÷¡ ŒËÁ¡ÿ, •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¬˝‚ flÊ‹ „Ò¥U, ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ë– ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’Êà „ÒU, ¡’ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ¬Ò‚ ∑§ Á‹ÿ ’Êà ∑§Ë, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U √ÿÁÄà •ÊÿªÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ¡’ fl„U •Êÿ ÃÙ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ ªÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UÊŸ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ– ߟ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U y Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ◊¥ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ ‹Ùª ÁŸ∑§‹ •Êÿ–

165 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ Á∑§ÃŸÊ ‚◊ÿ ‹ªÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑§⁄UË’-∑§⁄UË’ wÆ-wz Á◊Ÿ≈U ÿÊ •ÊœÊ ÉÊ¢≈UÊ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ ‹ªÊ „U٪ʖ ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª Õ? •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ ÕÊ, «˛UÊßfl⁄U ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑ȧ‹ øÊ⁄U ‹Ùª Õ? •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ë– •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª Õ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ôfl„UÊ¢ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÃÙ „U◊ ŒÙŸÙ¥ Õ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ ÕÊ– „U◊ øÊ⁄U ‹Ùª Õ ¡’ ©U‚∑§ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ’Ò∆U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡’ „U◊ ‹Ùª flË.•Ê߸.¬Ë. ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ª≈U ¬⁄U Á‚ÄÿÍÁ⁄U≈UË ⁄U„UÃË „ÒU– ÿÊ ÃÙ ŸÊ◊ ¬„U‹ ‚ ÁŒÿÊ „ÈU•Ê „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ Á»§⁄U ¬Í¿UÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU, ª≈U ¬⁄U ªÊ«∏UË L§∑§Ÿ ¬⁄U ŒπÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU? Á»§⁄U Á‚ÄÿÍÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹ ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¡’ •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ªÿ, flËÁ«UÿÙ ŒπŸ ‚ ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ÃÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Œ⁄UflÊ¡Ê πÈ‹ÃÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U •¢Œ⁄U ø‹ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U– ¡’ •Ê¬ •Êÿ ÃÙ ª≈U ¬⁄U ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ÃÊ Á∑§ ªÊ«∏UË ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U •Ê¬ „Ò¥U– ªÊ«∏UË fl„UË¥ ªß¸, ª≈U flÊ‹ ∑§Ù ÿ„U ¬ÃÊ ø‹Ê Á∑§ ÿ„U ªÊ«∏UË •ÊÿªË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©UŸ‚ ≈UÊßÁ◊¢ª ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË, fl„U ‡ÊÊÿŒ ©Uã„¥U ◊Ê‹Í◊ ⁄U„UÊ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ ß‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ •Êÿ¥ª, ß‚Á‹ÿ „U◊¥ ÖÿÊŒÊ ≈UÊß◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ª≈U πÈ‹Ê •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ‹Ùª ‚Ëœ •¢Œ⁄U ø‹ ªÿ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ù ÄÿÊ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ë •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ¬„U‹ ¡ÊŸ-¬„UøÊŸ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ©UŸ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ „UÙªË Á’ŸÊ ≈UÊßÁ◊¢ª ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ê– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ ÿ„U ‚Ê⁄UÊ πà◊ „UÙ ªÿÊ Á¡‚ •Ê¬ ““•Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ”” ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ª‹ Á◊‹ ⁄U„U Õ, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬Ÿ Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§Ë ªß¸ „ÒU, ŸÙ≈UÙ¢ ∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „ÈU߸ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚∑§Ë Ÿê’Á⁄¢Uª v-w ∑§⁄U∑§ „UÙ ªß¸ ÃÕÊ ∞∑§-ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ∑§Ù ∑§Ê¢ª⁄‘UøÈ‹≈U Á∑§ÿÊ, ÿ„U ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§Ê ÄÿÊ •¢ŒÊ¡Ê „ÒU ¡Ù ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ¬Í⁄UÊ „UÙ ªÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ ‚Ê⁄UË øË¡¥ „UÙ ªßZ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡Ò‚Ê ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl Ÿ ∑§⁄U Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡Ù Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ flÊ‹Ù¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ë ª«U˜«UË ∑§Ë ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄UπË, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ß‚ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U Á∑§ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ Ÿê’Á⁄¢Uª ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ë „Ò¥U ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ •ÊÒ⁄U ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U ßÁÄUÊ‚ ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ÁSÕÁà ◊¥ ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑Ò§Œ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ÿ„U ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U „ÈU•Ê „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ß‚∑§Ê ‚ËœÊ ¬˝‚Ê⁄UáÊ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê ÷¢«UÊ»§Ù«∏U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ÿ ‚Ê⁄UË ’ÊÃ¥ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§Ë „ÒU¢ •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚ ¬˝‚ÊÁ⁄Uà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹ÿ Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ◊ÊÁ‹∑§ ‚ ’Êà „UÙ ªß¸ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Ê⁄UË øøʸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÁŸc∑§·¸ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ê •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ‚ÙøÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÿ„U •ª⁄U Œ‡Ê Á„Uà ◊¥ ¬˝‚ÊÁ⁄Uà ∑§⁄‘¥Uª ÃÙ ’„ÈUà •ë¿UÊ „U٪ʖ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’Êà ¬⁄U øøʸ „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÿ„U ‚Ê⁄UË ÁSÕÁà ċËÿ⁄U „UÙªË ‹Á∑§Ÿ •÷Ë Ã∑§ ÁSÕÁà ‚Ê»§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ∑§’ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ÄÿÊ ‹Êßfl ∑§⁄‘¥Uª? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥, ©U‚Ë ÁŒŸ ww ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ¡Ò‚ „UË „U◊ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ¡Êÿ¥ª •ÊÒ⁄U fl ‚ËœÊ ¬˝‚Ê⁄UáÊ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ©U‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§’ ¬ÃÊ ø‹Ê Á∑§ ¡’ ‚Ë«UË Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ‚Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ≈UŸÊ∑˝§◊ ◊¥ ¡’ „U◊ ‹Ùª „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ªÿ ÃÙ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë ‹Á∑§Ÿ ß‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ù߸ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ’„ÈUà ¡ª„U ‚ ‚ÍøŸÊ •ÊÿË Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ‚Ë«UË ¬˝‚ÊÁ⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ∑§ıŸ ÄÿÊ „ÒU? ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ÿ„U „U◊Ÿ ’„ÈUà ¡ª„U ‚ ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊÿÊ–

166 ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ¡’ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊ÒÁ⁄UÁ«UÿŸ ªÿ, Ã’ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ „U◊Ê⁄UË ¡’ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– üÊË ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªı⁄UÊ •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ªÿ Õ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl„UÊ¢ Á∑§‚Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬„U‹ „UË ß‚∑§Ê ©UÀ‹π Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∞∑§ ‚Ê◊Êãÿ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§ ŸÊÃ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë, Áfl·ÿ ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ øøʸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– øÍ¢Á∑§ ¡Ù ≈UÊß◊ ¬⁄U ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª Á»§Ä‚ „ÈU߸ ÕË, √ÿSÃÃÊ ∑§ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ ¡’ ’Ëø ◊¥ ‚¢ÿÙª ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸, Á»§⁄U „U◊ ‹Ùª ‹ı≈U ªÿ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚Ë«UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚ÙøÊ Á∑§ ‚Ëœ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ⁄Uπ Œ¥, ÄÿÊ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ◊ÈŸÊÁ‚’ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÊ? ÄÿÊ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù Œ¥ ÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ „UÊ©U‚ ◊¥ ⁄UπŸÊ ◊ÈŸÊÁ‚’ ‚◊¤ÊÊ? ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ⁄UÊÿ ‹Ë ÿÊ ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë ÿÊ ∞‚ ÷Ë ◊Òê’‚¸ „Ò¥U Á¡Ÿ‚ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë ¡Êÿ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚ ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ÁfløÊ⁄U-Áfl◊‡Ê¸ Á∑§ÿÊ, øøʸ ∑§Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ÍøŸÊ ∑§ Ãı⁄U ¬⁄U „U◊Ÿ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà „ÒU, •ª‹Ê ÄÿÊ ∑§Œ◊ „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„Uÿ? ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ „ÒU ¡„UÊ¢ ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ªß¸ „UÙ, ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚ÍøŸÊ ‹ª÷ª ∞∑§-«U…∏U ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§ ’ÊŒ ŒË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ Á¡Ÿ ‚flÊ‹Ù¥ ∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ÁŒÿÊ, ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ¬„U‹ ‚ ‹ªÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‹ªÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ‹ªÊ∑§⁄U ªÿ Õ ÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ Ÿ ≈ÒUÁÄŸ∑§‹Ë ‹ªÊÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ Ÿ ¬„U‹ „UË ‚ ‚Ò≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ªÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥, ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– „U◊¥ ‚ÈœË⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∞‚Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– ¡’ ‚ÍøŸÊ ŒË, ¡’ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ∞∑§ ¡ª„U ß∑§≈U˜∆U „ÈUÿ •ÊÒ⁄U fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ¡Ù ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ ÕÊ, fl ‹Ùª •Êÿ– fl„UÊ¢ ¬Í⁄UË ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÿ„U Á«U‚Êß«U „ÈU•Ê– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ„U ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U „ÈU•Ê, ©U‚∑§ ¬„U‹ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „ÈUÿË, •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©U‚∑§ ¬„U‹ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ Ã∑§ ¡ÊŸ Ã∑§, •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U Ã∑§, Á¡‚ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ù ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË •Ê¬ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÄÿÊ ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „UÙ ⁄U„UË „Ò ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ ÃÙ ÕÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl„U ‡ÊÈM§ ‚ ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ Õ– wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ‚– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ©UŸ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ flªÒ⁄UÊ ‹∑§⁄U ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©UŸ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ ∑§Ù •ÊŸÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ Á∑§ã„UË¥ Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ ŸÊ◊ ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U øÊ⁄U ‹Ùª Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, fl„U ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ ©UŸ∑§Ê ¬˝◊Èπ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ’Ê∑§Ë ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ŸÊ◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „Ò¥U? ÄÿÊ Á‚hÊÕ¸ ∑§Ù •Ê¬ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ◊Ò¥ Á‚hÊø ªıÃ◊ ∑§Ù ¡ÊŸÃÊ „Í¢U, ’Ê∑§Ë ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥– ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¡Ù ÃËŸ ‹Ùª Õ, ∞∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÙ ©UŸ∑§ ‚„UÿÙªË Õ– 167 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ‹«UË¡ ÷Ë ÕË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥, fl øÊ⁄U ∑§ øÊ⁄U ¡Ò¥≈U˜‚ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ©UŸ∑§ ŸÊ◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥– ŸÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊–

üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ◊¥ Á’ãŒÈ ŒÙ ¬⁄U ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ The UPA Government has lost its majority. ~ ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚¬Ù≈¸U ªß¸ ¡’ flÊ◊¬¢ÕË ¬ÊÁ≈¸UÿÙ¥ Ÿ ‚◊Õ¸Ÿ flʬ‚ Á‹ÿÊ– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ë ‚¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U ∑§Ê ¡Ù ’Ò∑§ª˝Ê©¢U«U ’ŸÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ flÊ◊¬¢ÁÕÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬Í⁄UÊ ∞∑§◊à ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U fl„U ‚¬Ù≈¸U ÁflŒ«˛UÊ „ÈU߸– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ üÊË ∞.’Ë. flh¸AŸ ¡Ù ∑§êÿÈÁŸS≈U ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ ‚Ò∑˝§≈U⁄UË •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ‹Ë«U⁄U „Ò¥U, Ÿ ∞∑§ ¬Áé‹∑§ ⁄ÒU‹Ë ◊¥ ∞‹Ëª‡ÊŸ ‹ªÊÿÊ Á∑§ wz ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ∑§Ê ◊ÍÀÿ „ÒU, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ß‚ ’Êà ‚ ¬˝⁄UáÊÊ Á◊‹Ë ÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÄÿÊ „ÒUÀ¬ Á◊‹Ë? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ¬˝⁄UáÊÊ ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË, ¬⁄UãÃÈ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ‚¢Œ‡Ê ¡M§⁄U ªÿÊ Á∑§ Ã◊Ê◊ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃ¥ •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ ¿U¬ÃË ⁄U„UË¥ Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ ‹Ùª Œ‡Ê ∑§Ù ß‚ ÁSÕÁà ◊¥ ‹ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ÿ„U ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚ÍøŸÊ Á◊‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË– •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÷Ë ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ’Ÿ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU, ÿ„U øøʸ ∑§ Áfl·ÿ ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ ¿U¬Ê ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ ∞∑§ ¡ª„U Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ߢáÊ◊ ÃÙ ¬„U‹ „UÙ øÈ∑§Ê „ÒU Á»§⁄U ÷Ë •Ê¬ •Ê ªÿ „Ò¥U, ÄÿÊ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ©U‚ ÁŒŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ÿ„U ÃÙ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ª∞ Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚¢ÅÿÊ ‹ª÷ª ’„ÈU◊à ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ◊¥ „ÒU– ÿ„U ©UŸ∑§Ê ∑§„UŸÊ ÕÊ– øÍ¢Á∑§ ⁄UÊà ◊¥ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ß‚Á‹∞ •ŸÈ¬ÁSÕà ⁄U„UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ „U◊¥ ÃËŸ-ÃËŸ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ Œ¥ª, ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ŒπË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‚Ë«UË ŒπŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚◊¤Ê ◊¥ •Ê∞ªÊ– ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚Ë«UË ∑Ò§‚Ë „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ •Ê ¡Ê∞¢ ÃÙ ÿÊ ÃÙ ‚Ë«UË ÁŒπÊ∑§⁄U ¬Í¿U ‹¥– ‚¢ÿÈÄà ‚Áøfl— ÿ S¬ÒÁ‚»§Êß ∑§⁄‘¥U Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ-‚Ê ¬Ù‡Ê¸Ÿ ŒπŸÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚Ë«UË ‚ ‚¢’¢ÁœÃ ∑§Ù߸ ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU ÃÙ fl„U ÁŒπÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– „U◊¥ ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ù ÁŒπÊ∑§⁄U ∑ȧ¿U ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿UŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ Á‹¢∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– Á¡‚ ªÊ«∏UË ◊ÊM§Áà ¡Ÿ ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU ©U‚◊¥ ‡ÊˇÊÊ ∑Ò§‚Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ÁflÁ¡’‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ– w| ‹ÙŒË ⁄UÙ«U ◊¥ ∞¢≈U⁄U ∑§⁄UÃ ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬ ∑§„UË¥ ‚ ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ©U‚ ‡ÊˇÊ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ¥ª? •Ê¬ øȬøʬ ÁŸ∑§‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË, ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ, Ã’ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ „ÒU ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬Ò‚Ê ‹ ¡Ê∞¢ª ÃÙ ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪ʖ ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ¬Ò‚Ê ‹ ¡ÊÃ ÃÙ ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ÁŒÄ∑§Ã Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃË ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ∑§Ê‹ ‡ÊˇÊ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ‹ª Õ– Á¡‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ •Ê¬ •Ê ⁄U„U Õ, ’Ê„U⁄U ÁŸ∑§‹ŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ÁflÁ¡’‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ– •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿ ÃÙ ¬Ò‚ ÷Ë ∑Ò§‚ ÁŒπÃ?

168 üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊¥ flËÁ«UÿÙ ≈U¬ ÁŒπÊ߸ ¡Ê∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù flËÁ«UÿÙ ¡M§⁄U ÁŒπÊ∞¢ª– ÄÿÊ ‚Ê⁄UÊ ÁŒπÊŸÊ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢ ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ÁŒπÊ Œ¥ ∑§„UË¥ ∑§Ê≈UÊ-¬Ë≈UË ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— Á»§⁄U ¬Í⁄UÊ ŒπŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ߟ‚ ¬Í¿UŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§Ê≈UÊ-¬Ë≈UË ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ÿÊ «UÊÄ≈U«¸U ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑§Ê⁄U flÊ‹Ê ¬„U‹ ÁŒπÊ Œ¥– (flËÁ«UÿÙ ≈U¬ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ) ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ©UÃ⁄UÃ „ÈU∞ ≈UËflË øÒŸÀ‚ Ÿ ŒπÊ „ÒU, Á¡ÃŸ øÒŸ‹ flÊ‹ ’Ê„U⁄U Õ? ¡Ù ªÊ«∏UË ‚ ©UÃ⁄UÊ „ÒU ÿ„U ∑§ıŸ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ‚Ù„U‹ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ’Ê„U⁄U ÁŸ∑§‹Ã ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬ ∑§„UÊ¢ „Ò¥U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÁŸ∑§‹Ã ‚◊ÿ ◊Ò¥ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ’Ò∆UÊ „Í¢U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ∑§ıŸ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‹«UË ’Ò∆UË „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©U‚∑§Ù „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ– ÿ„U ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U flÊ‹ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ߟ∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§ •‹ÊflÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ≈UË◊ flÊ‹ ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ Õ? fl ‹Ùª ∑§ıŸ „Ò¥U, ÿ„U ◊Ê‹Í◊ „UÙŸ ‚ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄U ◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ »§Ù≈UÙ •Ê ªÿÊ „UÙ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ‹«∏U∑§Ê ¬Òã≈U flÊ‹Ê ∑§ıŸ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ÃÙ ©Uã„UË¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ŒÊÁ„UŸ flÊ‹Ê ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ê „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ß‚◊¥ ªÊ«∏UË ÃÙ ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ ÁŸ∑§‹ ªß¸– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ„U ∑¢§≈UËãÿÍ•‚ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ⁄UÙ∑§-⁄UÙ∑§ ∑§⁄U ∑§Ë ªß¸ „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ’Ò∆U „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— «˛UÊßfl⁄U Ÿ ÷Ë M§◊Ê‹ ‚ ◊È¢„U …U∑§Ê „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¬Ë¿U •Ê¬ ŒÙŸÙ¥ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, ŒÙŸÙ¥ „Ò¥U–

169 ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ∞∑§ √ÿÁÄà ŒπŸ ∑§Ù Á◊‹ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ∑ȧÃʸ ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ ¬Ë¿U πÊ‹Ë „ÒU– ¡Ù ÷Ë „UÙ, ÿ„U ÁÄ‹ÿ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ‚Ù ª∞ Õ ÄÿÊ? ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„U Õ? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ‹ÊS≈U flÊ‹Ê ÁŒπÊ∞¢ Á¡‚◊¥ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬Ò‚ flÊ‹Ê Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ª¸‹ ¡Ë, ÿ„U ∑§ıŸ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ‚È„ÒU‹ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ ∑§Ê»§Ë ∞ÁÄ≈Ufl „ÒU– ÿ„U ÃÙ ⁄UÊ¡Ê „ÒU, ŒÁπ∞, ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ ‹«∏U∑§Ê ‹∑§⁄U •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ Á¡ã„¥U ¬„UøÊŸÃ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ’ÃÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ’Òª ‹Ÿ flÊ‹Ê ∑§ıŸ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á¡‚Ÿ ∑§Ê‹Ë ≈UË-‡Ê≈¸U ¬„UŸË „ÒU, ÿ„U ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ¡Ù ’Ò∆UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ •Ê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ÷Ë ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ „UË •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ù ÕÙ«∏UÊ »§Ê⁄Ufl«¸U ∑§⁄U ŒËÁ¡∞– øÊ⁄U-¬Ê¢ø •ÊŒ◊Ë ¡Ù ’Ê„U⁄U ª∞ „Ò¥U, ©Uã„¥U ÁŒπÊŸÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÕÒ‹ ◊¥ «UÊ‹Ã „ÈU∞ ÁŒπÊ∞¢– ÿ ÷ªı«∏UÊ ¡Ë ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ, ◊⁄UÊ •ŸÈ⁄UÙœ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ê ¡Ù ≈UÊß◊ „ÒU, ©U‚ •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ◊Ù’Êß‹ ∑§Ê, ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ∑§Ê ≈U‹Ë ‚’Íà ∑§ Ãı⁄U ¬⁄U ◊Ê¢ª ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– „U◊ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U, „U◊Ê⁄UË ©UŸ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU ÃÙ „U◊ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÿ„U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ √ÿÁÄà „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ª⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ÷Ë „UÙ ÃÙ ÄÿÊ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë „ÒU, „U◊¥ ∑Ò§‚ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ¬«∏UªÊ? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚¢¡Ëfl ∑§ ◊Ù’Êß‹ ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ¬ÙÁ‹ÕËŸ fl„UË „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, ÿ„U fl„UË ¬ÙÁ‹ÕËŸ „ÒU, ¡Ù ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’Ù‹Ê Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ «UÊ‹ ŒÙ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚◊¥ «UÊ‹ ÁŒÿÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ¬ÙÁ‹ÕËŸ ∑§Ê»§Ë S≈˛UÙ¥ª „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ¬ÙÁ‹ÕËŸ •Ê¬Ÿ ¬„U‹ ‚ ⁄UπÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑§Ù߸ ŸËø ¬«∏UÊ ÕÊ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ß‚ ß‚◊¥ ⁄UπÙ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË Ÿ ¬Í⁄‘U Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸ ∑§Ù Á„U‹Ê ÁŒÿÊ– ßœ⁄U ‚ Á∑§‚ ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ •Ê ⁄U„UË „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÿ„U ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªı«∏UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ „ÒU–

170 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÷ªı«∏UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà ‚ ∞‚Ê ¬ÃÊ ø‹ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§„UË¥ fl ß‚∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ ª∞, ß‚Á‹∞ fl ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ’Ù‹Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊ ∑§‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¡ „U◊ •Ê ª∞ „Ò¥U, ‚È’„U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê ¬Ê∞ Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªı«∏UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÷ªı«∏UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÒU Á∑§ ≈U¬ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¡Ù ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË Ÿê’⁄U Á‹ÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚Ä‚‚»È§‹ „UÙŸ ‚ ©U‚ Á∑§ÃŸÊ Á◊‹ªÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ„U ÃÙ ©U‚Ë ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „U٪ʖ ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ Á∑§‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ „UÊÕ Á◊‹Ê ⁄U„U Õ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¡Ù ÃËŸÙ¥ ∞◊¬Ë Õ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ÷ªı«∏UÊ ¡Ë „Ò¥U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ ∑§ıŸ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ ‚ÈœË⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ •ÊÒ⁄U Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡Ù •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ë¿U „ÒU, fl„U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ ‚’, ߟ∑§ ‚ÊÕË „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ë ¡Ù Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „ÈU߸ ÕË, •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù ∑¢§¬‹¥≈U ∑§Ë, ŸÙ≈U-flÙ≈U ‹∑§⁄U, fl„U ß‚◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‚⁄U, ß‚◊¥ fl„U ∑ȧ¿U ’ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‡ÊÊÿŒ •Êª •Ê∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ⁄ÒUªÈ‹⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË, ¡Ò‚ flËÁ«Uÿ٠ߢ≈U⁄U√ÿÍ ‹Ã „Ò¥U, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¡Ù •Ê¬ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U •ÕflÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù Á‹π∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U ß‚◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‚⁄U, ¡Ù „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ß‚◊¥ ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà Á‹πË „ÒU, fl„U ß‚◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚⁄U, ß‚∑§Ê ¡⁄UÊ flËÁ«UÿÙ ÁŒπflÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— fl„U ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ÁŒπÊ∞¢ª– ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ ◊Ò¥ ∑ȧ¿U ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù Á¬≈Uˇʟ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù ŒË ÕË, ©U‚∑§Ê •ÊœÊ⁄U ’‚Ë∑§‹Ë ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ãÿÍ¡ øÒŸ‹ „ÒU– ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ë Á¬≈Uˇʟ ◊¥ ÷Ë ÿ„U Á‹πÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU Á∑§ We contacted CNN-IBN news channel, which deputed its correspondent Shri Siddharth Gautam to record the whistle-blowing operation and to expose the UPA’s unethical plot. ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÷Ë ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ÷¡Ê, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •’ ¡’ „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ¬Í¿UÊ, ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ ŒπÊ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ¬…∏UÊ– ¡Ù ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚ „UË •Ê¬Ÿ ‚Ë‹ ∑§fl⁄U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ÷¡ ÁŒÿÊ, Á¡‚ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ– ŒÁπ∞, •Ê¬ øÊ⁄U ’Ê⁄U ‚Ê¢‚Œ ⁄U„U øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ◊¢òÊË ÷Ë ⁄U„U øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë Á¬≈Uˇʟ ∑§Ù Ÿ ¬…∏U∑§⁄U Ÿ Œπ∑§⁄U, ∑Ò§‚ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ÷¡ ÁŒÿÊ, ÿ„U •Ê¬ „U◊¥ ’ÃÊß∞, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ ŒπÊ? ∑§fl‹ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ ÷¡Ê ÿÊ ¬…∏U∑§⁄U ÷¡Ê?

171 üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ÿ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù ¡Ù ‚Áé◊≈U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ÃÙ „U◊Ÿ ¬…∏UÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬Ÿ ¬…∏UÊ „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •Ê¬Ÿ ¬…∏UÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚∑§Ë •ÊÒÕ¥Á‚≈UË ∑§Ù flÒ⁄UË»§Ê߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ„U ∑Ò§‚ •ÊÿÊ, ÄÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚∑§Ë ‚Ê⁄UË ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË •ÊÒ⁄U ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ∑§Ê ¡Ù ¬Í⁄UÊ ŒÎ‡ÿ „ÒU, ©U‚ „U◊Ÿ •¬ŸË ∑¢§¬‹¥≈U ◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ß‚ •Ê¬Ÿ ◊ÒŸ ∞flË«¥U‚ ◊ÊŸ∑§⁄U, ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÷¡Ê „ÒU– This is the main evidence before us. This is sting operation and video recording •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚ •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ ¡Ù ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U Á‹πË, ©U‚ •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊¥ ÷¡ ÁŒÿÊ– ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ÃÙ ŸÊ≈U∑§ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÷Ë Á‹πË ¡ÊÃË „ÒU, ©U‚ ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë Á‹π ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ê ∞∑§ ’Ò¥Á∑¢§ª •ÊœÊ⁄U ⁄U„UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ©U‚ •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ– ß‚ËÁ‹∞ ÃÙ •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊‚ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§Ù ÁŒπÊß∞– ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ ¡Ù ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U Á‹πÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§ ™§¬⁄U ¬Í⁄UÊ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ∑§⁄U∑§, ©U‚Ë ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U Á¬≈Uˇʟ Œ ŒË, ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Ÿ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ ¡Ù ‚ÒÁ∑¢§«U ¬Ê≈¸U ∑§Ê ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚◊¥ ¡Ù ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿ¢’⁄U flªÒ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, fl •Ê¬∑§Ù ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁŒ∞? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥, ÿ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ß‚ Ã∑§ŸË∑§ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U, ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ÄÿÊ-ÄÿÊ, ©U‚◊¥ ¬Í⁄UË ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ©U‚◊¥ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– ’‚Ë∑§‹Ë ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§ ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÷¡Ê „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù ÷Ë Á¬≈Uˇʟ ŒË „ÒU– •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ¡Ù Áflfl⁄UáÊ ÷¡Ê „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ∑§ß¸ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿ¢’‚¸ ∑¢§åÿÍ≈U⁄U ¡Ÿ⁄‘U≈U«U „Ò¥U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚◊¥ Á∑§‚Ë ∑¢§¬ŸË ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊, ‚Ë‹ ÿÊ S≈ÒUê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ’Ë.∞‚.∞Ÿ.∞‹. „UÙ, ∞ÿ⁄U≈ÒU‹ „UÙ ÿÊ •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ „UÙ, •ÊÒ⁄U ÷Ë ∑§ß¸ ∑¢§¬ŸË¡ „Ò¥U– ¡Ù ∑¢§åÿÍ≈U⁄U ¡Ÿ⁄‘U≈U«U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿ¢’‚¸ •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÷¡ „Ò¥U, ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ Á◊‹? ÄÿÊ ÿ ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ÁŒ∞ ÿÊ ∑§„UË¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ Á◊‹ •ÊÒ⁄U ߟ∑§Ê •ÊœÊ⁄U ÄÿÊ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ Ÿ¢’‚¸ Õ, ÿ ÃÙ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡Ù ∑¢§åÿÍ≈U⁄U ¡Ÿ⁄‘U≈U«U ‡ÊË≈U „ÒU, ÿ„U •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ Á◊‹Ë? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ ÃÙ ©U‚‚ ÁŸ∑§‹flÊ∞ „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ ߟ ¬Í⁄‘U Ÿê’‚¸ ∑§Ù, ¬Í⁄UÊ... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— Ÿ„UË¥, ◊Ò¥ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹flÊ∞? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— •’ ÿ Ÿ¢’⁄U ∑Ò§‚ ÁŸ∑§‹flÊ∞, ÄÿÊ „ÒU, ÿ ÃÙ... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ßã„¥U ÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ flÒ⁄UË»§Ê߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢–

172 üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿ ÃÙ •¬Ÿ SÃ⁄U ¬⁄U ÁŸ∑§‹flÊ∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ÃÙ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§fl‹ ‡ÊË≈U Á◊‹Ë •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÷¡ ŒË– •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U flÒ⁄UË»§Ê߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ÿ Ÿ¢’⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑Ò§‚ Á◊‹? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl Ÿ¢’⁄U, ‚¢¡Ëfl Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄UË ¡Ù ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸, fl Ÿ¢’⁄U „Ò¥U, ¡Ù ©U‚◊¥ „Ò¥U Á¡Ÿ Ÿ¢’⁄U ¬⁄U „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà „ÈU߸– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ ∑¢§åÿÍ≈U⁄U ¡Ÿ⁄‘U≈U«U Ÿ¢’⁄U ÃÙ ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ÿ ∑¢§¬ŸË ∑§ ¡Á⁄Uÿ ‚ Á◊‹ ÿÊ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ Á◊‹, •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚÷ʬÁà ¡Ë, ◊⁄UÊ ∞∑§ ‚ȤÊÊfl „ÒU... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚ȤÊÊfl Ÿ„UË¥, ¬„U‹ •Ê¬ ¬˝‡Ÿ ∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– ŒÁπ∞, •Ê¬ Á¬≈Uˇʟ⁄U „Ò¥U– ß‚ ¬˝Ífl ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë, ß‚∑§Ë •ÊÒÕ¥≈UËÁ‚≈UË ∑§Ù ¬˝Ífl ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë Á¡ê◊ŒÊ⁄UË •Ê¬∑§Ë „ÒU, „U◊Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥– „U◊ ÃÙ flÒ⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄U „UË ‹¥ª, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„U ¡Ù •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊¥ ÷¡Ê „ÒU... üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚⁄U, •Ê¬ ‚¢’¢ÁœÃ ∑¢§¬ŸË ‚ ‚àÿÃÊ ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚⁄U, ¡Ù ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ∑§Ë ∑¢§¬ÁŸÿÊ¢ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ‚ ‚àÿÃÊ ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË •Ê¬ ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ∑§Ù ◊Ù’Êß‹ ∑¢§¬ŸË ‚ Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU? ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ß‚ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ∑§Ù ∑¢§¬ŸË ‚ ‹Ê∞ „Ò¥U ÿÊ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§„UË¥ ‚ ‹Ë „ÒU? •ª⁄U ∑¢§¬ŸË ‚ Á◊‹ÃË, ÃÙ ∑¢§¬ŸË ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊, ‚Ë‹ ÿÊ S≈ÒUê¬ ©U‚ ¬⁄U „UÙŸË øÊÁ„U∞ ÕË, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ◊ȤÊ ∞‚Ë ∑§Ù߸ øË¡ ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– √„UÊß≈U ¬¬⁄U ¬⁄U ÿ ∑§fl‹ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ¢’‚¸ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥ Á‚»¸§ ÿ„U ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÿ„U ∑¢§¬ŸË ‚ Á◊‹Ê ÿÊ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ Á◊‹Ê? ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ò⁄Uʪ˝Ê»§ x ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑ȧ¿U ∞◊.¬Ë¡ Ÿ Á⁄UflÒÁꬢª Á‹S≈U •ÚÊ»§ ‚ÚÊç≈U ≈UÊ⁄Uª≈U, •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ß‚ ‚ÊÚç≈U ≈UÊ⁄Uª≈U ◊¥ ßãÄ‹Í«U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬Ÿ Á¡‚ Á‹S≈U ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU, ÄÿÊ ÿ„U Á‹S≈U ∑§„UË¥ Á∑§‚Ë •π’Ê⁄U ◊¥ ¬Á鋇«U „ÈU߸ ÕË ÿÊ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •Ê¬Ÿ Á‹ÿÊ ∑§ıŸ ‚Ë Á‹S≈U ‚ ß‚ Á‹ÿÊ? Apart from M.Ps from other U.P.A. Parties and independent M.Ps our names were mentioned in the list as soft targets. ÿ„U Á‹S≈U ÄÿÊ „ÒU– Á∑§‚∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÿ„U Á‹S≈U ÕË, ÄÿÊ •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ ÁŸ∑§‹Ë ÕË ÿÊ ∑Ò§‚ •Ê¬∑§Ù ß‚∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË „ÈU߸ Á∑§ ∞‚Ë ∞∑§ Á‹S≈U ’Ÿ ⁄U„UË ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÿÁŒ ÕÊ, ÃÙ ‚ÊÚç≈U ≈UÊ⁄Uª≈U˜‚ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ÄÿÙ¥ ßãÄ‹Í«U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— •π’Ê⁄UÙ¢ ◊¥ ∞‚Ê ∑§„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ª⁄U ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ©UŸ •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ∑§Ë „U◊¥ ∑§Êڬˡ ÷¡ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? ÿ„U Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ our names were being mentioned in the list of soft targets. ‚ÊÚç≈U ≈UÊ⁄Uª≈U ◊Ëã‚ Á¡‚∑§Ù ߸Á¡‹Ë ◊ÒŸ¡ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§– •Ê¬ ßß ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ◊Òê’⁄U „Ò¥U, ©U‚ Á‹S≈U ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ÄÿÙ¥ •ÊÿÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Á¡Ÿ •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ ¿U¬Ê „ÒU, „U◊ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄‘¥Uª Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ë ¬˝ÁÃÿÊ¢ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷¡ Œ¥– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ª⁄U ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝Í»§ Á◊‹ ÃÙ ÷¡ ŒËÁ¡∞ªÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ÊÚç≈U ≈UÊ⁄Uª≈U˜‚ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÄÿÙ¥ ≈UÊ⁄Uª≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ?

173 üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚⁄U, „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚Ë≈U •ŸÈ‚ÍÁøà ¡ÊÁà ∑§Ë ÕË ¡Ù Á∑§ ß‚ ’Ê⁄U ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ „UÙ ªß¸ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „UÊ¢– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ß‚ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÿ„U ‹ª ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ߟ∑§Ë ‚Ë≈U πà◊ „UÙ ªß¸ „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ‚Ë≈U ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ ∑§Ê¢S≈UË≈KÍ∞¢‚Ë ◊¥ •Ê ªß¸ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ Á≈UÁ∑§≈U ߟ∑§Ù Á◊‹ŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ‡ÊÊÿŒ ÿ ∞‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ •Ê ¡Ê∞¢ª •ÊÒ⁄U ‹Ê‹ø ◊¥ »¢§‚ ¡Ê∞¢ª– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ë¿UÊ, ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ÷Ë ‚Ë≈U ÄÿÊ ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ „UÙ ªß¸ „ÒU? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‚⁄U, ◊⁄UË ‚Ë≈U ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË, ’ÁÀ∑§ ◊⁄UË ‚Ë≈U ∑§Ê ÃÙ ÁflSÃÊ⁄U „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ¡Ù ◊Ò‚¡ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚ ◊Ò‚¡ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ŒË Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ∑ȧ¿U ¬ÊÚ‹ËÁ≈U∑§‹ ‹Ë«U‚¸ ∑§Ë ÷Ë ‚Ê⁄UË ’ÊÃ¥ •ÊßZ, ÃÙ ©UŸ◊¥ ‚ ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ flÊSÃfl ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ’Ÿ ⁄U„UË „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ‚ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ ∑§„UË¥, ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U ◊Ê◊‹ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ÿ„U ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§Ë, ∑§fl‹ ß‚Ë ∑§Ù äÿÊŸ ◊¥ ⁄Uπ∑§⁄U, ’Ê∑§Ë ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ Áfl·ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ë¿UÊ Á»§⁄U, •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù Á¬≈Uˇʟ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù ŒË ©U‚∑§ ¬Ò⁄Uʪ˝Ê»§ w ∑§ •¢Ã ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ üÊË ∞.’Ë. ’œ¸Ÿ, ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ ‚Ò∑˝§≈˛UË, ∑§êÿÈÁŸS≈U ¬Ê≈U˸ •ÊÚ»§ ߢÁ«UÿÊ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ Á‹πÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ù •‹Ò¡ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∞∑§- ∞∑§ ∞◊.¬Ë. ∑§Ù wz-wz ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬∞ ÁŒ∞ ª∞ Õ, ÃÙ ß‚ ¬⁄U The entire nation was shcoked to hear. ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’œ¸Ÿ ¡Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë ÕË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ ¿U¬ ‚◊ÊøÊ⁄UÙ¥ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ÿ„U Á‹πÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ ¡Ù ¿U¬Ê ÕÊ, ©U‚ ÃÙ ‚Ê⁄‘U Œ‡Ê Ÿ ¬…∏UÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒπÊ „UÙªÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚ •Ê¬Ÿ Á¬≈Uˇʟ ◊¥ ∞flË«¥U‚ ∑§ ŸÊÃ ‚Êß≈U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ∞‚Ê ÄÿÙ¥? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‚⁄U, ©U‚∑§Ë ÷Ë ∑§Á≈¢Uª ∑§„UË¥ Á◊‹ªË, ÃÙ „U◊ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ÷¡ Œ¥ª– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „U◊Ÿ ‚÷Ë ∑§Á≈¢UÇ‚ ∑§Ù ŒπÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ß‚ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ flÒ⁄UË»§Ê߸ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ Á¬≈Uˇʟ ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ’œ¸Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ Á‹πÊ „ÒU– It is the evidence that you have cited. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊ÊŸ ‹ËÁ¡∞, ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ Ÿ, ◊ÊŸŸËÿ üÊË ∞.’Ë. ’œ¸Ÿ ∑§ ’ÿÊŸ ∑§Ù Á≈U˜flS≈U „UË Á∑§ÿÊ „UÙ, ∑§÷Ë- ∑§÷Ë ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ Á≈U˜flS≈U ÷Ë ∑§⁄U ŒÃÊ „ÒU– fl ßß ’«∏U ŸÃÊ „¢ÒU, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚∑§Ê flÒ⁄UËÁ»§∑§‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÄÿÊ ß‚ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Á◊‹Ë, ÿÊŸË •ÊÚÕ¥Á≈U∑§ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ‚„UË ◊ÊÿŸ ◊¥ Á∑§ ’œ¸Ÿ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ∞‚Ê ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ∑§fl‹ •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ∑§ ◊Êäÿ◊ ‚– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ∑§ ◊Êäÿ◊ ¬⁄U „UË •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ– ÿÊŸË •Ê¬∑§Ê ß㻧◊¸‡ÊŸ ‚ÍòÊ ∑§fl‹ •π’Ê⁄U „UË Õ– •π’Ê⁄U ∑§Ù ◊Êäÿ◊ ’ŸÊ∑§⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ •¬ŸË Á¬≈Uˇʟ ◊¥ Á’ãŒÈ-w ¬⁄U «UÊ‹ ÁŒÿÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •‡ÊÙ∑§ ÷Ê߸, üÊË ’œ¸Ÿ ÃÙ ’«∏U ŸÃÊ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§Ë ’Êà ¬⁄U ‚’ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ∑§⁄UÃ „UÙ¥ª– ¡’ •Ê¬∑§Ë •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ‚ ÷¥≈U „ÈU߸, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ wz-wz ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬∞ ÁŒ∞ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÃÙ „U◊¢ ÄÿÙ¥ x ∑§⁄UÙ«∏∏U L§¬∞ ÁŒ∞ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— Ÿ„UË¥, ‚⁄U, „U◊Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹Ê– flÒ‚ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊ ‚ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •Ê ¡ÊÃ, ÃÙ •ÊÒ⁄U ÖÿÊŒÊ ⁄UÊÁ‡Ê ∑§Ë √ÿflSÕÊ ∑§⁄UÊ ŒÃ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§ Á≈UÁ∑§≈U ∑§Ê ÷Ë ß¢Ã¡Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÊ ŒÃ–

174 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ •¬ŸË Á¬≈Uˇʟ ◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU? ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ’Êà Á¬≈Uˇʟ ◊¥ Œ¡¸ „ÒU? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ‡ÊÊÿŒ ÿ„U ’Êà Á¬≈Uˇʟ ◊¥ Œ¡¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪˖ ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ë¿UÊ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ’ÃÊß∞ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬„U‹ ∞‚Ê •ÊÚ»§⁄U Á∑§‚ Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ? ‚’‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ù Á∑§‚ Ÿ ∞¬˝Ùø Á∑§ÿÊ? •Ê¬Ÿ Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ Á◊Á«U‹◊ÒŸ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ¬ÊÚfl⁄U ’˝Ù∑§‚¸ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬Ò‚ •ÊÚ»§⁄U Á∑§∞– ÿ ¬Êfl⁄U ’˝Ù∑§‚¸ ∑§ıŸ „Ò¥U? Á¡Ÿ Œ‹Ê‹ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù •ÊÚ»§⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ê¢≈ÒUÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, fl ∑§ıŸ „Ò¥U– Many power brokers through intermediaries contacted us. ◊Ë’ ∑§Ù߸ Œ‹Ê‹, ∑§Ù߸ ◊äÿflÃ˸ ∑§ ¡Á⁄U∞ ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ê¢≈ÒUÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ– ¬„U‹Ê ∑§Ê¢≈ÒUÄ≈U •Ê¬‚ ∑§’ „ÈU•Ê •ÊÒ⁄U Á∑§‚∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ „ÈU•Ê? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ù ‚È„ÒU‹ „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ¡Ù ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ©U‚◊¥ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿË, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ Ã∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ß㻧ÊÚ◊¸‡ÊŸ ∞Ç¡Ä≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„U ¡M§⁄U ÕÊ Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ŒË Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà „ÒU– ÿ„U ¡Ù ÁSÕÁà „ÒU, ß‚◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ∞∑§ ‚ÍøŸÊ „ÒU, ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ÁSÕÁà „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ’Ÿ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡Ù ÷Ë ◊ʪ¸Œ‡Ê¸Ÿ „UÙªÊ, ¡Ò‚Ê ÷Ë „UÙªÊ, ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∞∑§ ¡Ù ‚Ê◊Êãÿ ’ÊÃøËà ◊¥ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹Ê, ÿ„U ‚Ê⁄UË øË¡, ¡Ù „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ©U‚◊¥ ‚ „UË ÿ„U ÁŸ∑§‹Ê „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •÷Ë ¬„U‹ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕË ∑§ ¬Í¿UŸ ¬⁄U •Ê¬ ’Ù‹ Õ Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬∑§Ê ¬„U‹ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥– ©U‚Ë ÁŒŸ „UË „ÈU•Ê– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡’ ‚È„ÒU‹ ¡Ë ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¬„U‹ •ÊÿÊ, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÃÙ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÃÙ ∑§Ù߸ ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË– ‡ÊÈM§•Êà ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË, ∑§Ù߸ Á«US∑§‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑§fl‹ ß㻧ÊÚ◊¸‡ÊŸ ß‚Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË Á∑§ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡’ ‚È„ÒU‹ ¡Ë Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ Á«US∑§‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑§Ù߸ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ‚È„ÒU‹ ¡Ù ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬∑§Ê ¬„U‹ ‚ ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ Á«US∑§‡ÊŸ „UÙŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ ¡’ ∑§Ù߸ •ŸŸÙŸ ¬‚¸Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, ÃÙ •Ê¬ ∞∑§ Á⁄US¬Ê¢Á‚’‹ ∞◊¬Ë „UÙ∑§⁄U ∑Ò§‚ ©U‚∑§Ù ߢ≈U⁄U≈UŸ Á∑§∞? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊Ÿ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ©UŸ∑§Ù „U◊Ÿ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿÊŸË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ ¬„U‹ ‚È„ÒU‹ ¡Ë Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ–

175 üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ∑§fl‹... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑§fl‹ »§ÙŸ ◊¥ •Ê¬ ∑Ò§‚ ‚¡‡ÊŸ ∑§Ù SflË∑§Ê⁄U Á∑§∞? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ‹ª÷ª v}-wÆ ‹Ùª ∞‚ „Ò¥U, ∑˝§ÊÚ‚ flÙÁ≈¢Uª ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ◊¥, Á¡Ÿ ¬⁄U π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅà „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– Á¡Ÿ ¬⁄U ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà „ÒU, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ßÃŸË ß㻧ÊÚ◊¸‡ÊŸ ŒË ÕË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë •ŸŸÙŸ ¬‚¸Ÿ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ¬⁄U •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÿ„U ‚’ Á«US∑§‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚∑§ ¬„U‹ ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥, ∑§fl‹ ßÃŸË ‚ÍøŸÊ ÕË, ∑§fl‹ ‚ÍøŸÊ ¬⁄U, „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ∑§Ù߸ flÙ Ÿ„UË¥– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡Ò‚Ê Á∑§ •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ’Ù‹ Õ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ‚’‚ ¬„U‹ ∑§ıŸ ߢ≈U⁄U◊ËÁ«U∞≈˛UË ÿÊ ’˝Ù∑§⁄U •Ê¬‚ ∑§Ê¢≈ÒUÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ? •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ „ÒU– •÷Ë ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ßÃŸÊ ◊ȤÊ ß㻧ÚÊ◊¸‡ÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ ßÃŸË ∑˝§ÊÚ‚ flÙÁ≈¢Uª „ÈU߸, Á’ÿÊ¢«U ŒÒ≈U ∑ȧ¿U ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Í¿UÊ– ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÃÙ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ù ∞¬˝Ùø Á∑§ÿÊ, »§ÊÚ⁄U flÙÁ≈¢Uª– ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ß‚ ‚¡‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ »§S≈¸U ∞¬˝Ùø Á∑§‚Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ’Ê∑§Ë Á∑§‚Ë ¬ÊÚÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ÃÙ ÿ„U Áfl·ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¬ÊÚÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ¬Ê≈U˸ „UÙ ÿÊ ŸÊŸ¬ÚÊÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ¬Ê≈U˸ „UÙ, ÿ„U ÃÙ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§fl‹ ∑ȧ¿U ß㻧Ê◊¸‡ÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù »§S≈¸U ‚¡‡ÊŸ Á∑§‚Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ „U◊∑§Ù flÙ≈U Œ¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞‚Ê ’Ù‹Ê Á∑§ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù »§fl⁄U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ÿ„U Œ‹Ê‹ „UÙ ÿÊ Á◊Á«U‹◊ÒŸ „UÙ, Á∑§‚∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„U ‚¡‡ÊŸ •Ê߸? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡’ „U◊Ÿ ß‚∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ¡’ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ‚ÍøŸÊ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ß‚ Áfl·ÿ ◊¥, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∆UË∑§ ‚ ’Ê߸-»§‚ •Ê¬Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ, flÙ≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬„U‹ ∑§Ê¢≈UÄ≈U Á∑§‚Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ⁄UÊà ◊¥ ¡’ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë •Ê∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ë ’Êà ¿UÙÁ«∏U∞– ŸÄS≈U S≈U¬ ◊¥ ©U‚ ¬⁄U •Ê∞¢ª– ¬„U‹Ê ¬‚¸Ÿ ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ Á¡‚Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ê¢≈ÒUÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ, Œ‹Ê‹ „UÙ ÿÊ ◊äÿflÃ˸ „UÙ, Á∑§‚∑§ ¡Á⁄U∞ ‚ ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U ‚¡‡ÊŸ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÿÊ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ê‚ •ÊÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÃÙ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ê „UË »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‹Á∑§Ÿ •÷Ë •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ ‚¡‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊∑§Ù ŒË ÕË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑Ò§‚ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ¬«∏UÊ Á∑§ fl„U ¬Ò‚ ∑§ Á‹∞ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ flÙ≈U øÊ„UÃÊ „ÒU, Á¡‚‚ •Ê¬ ∞‚Ê ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Á»§⁄U ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ù߸ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ŸÄS«U «U ¡’ „U◊ ‹Ùª ’Ò∆U, ÃÙ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë øøʸ „ÈU߸, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ „UË ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ß‚ Ÿ¢’⁄U ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ „ÒU, ÿ„U Á∑§‚∑§Ê „ÒU, ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ •ÊÿË, ÿ„U ’ÊÃøËà ◊¥ ‚ „UË ÁŸ∑§‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– fl„U Ÿ¢’⁄U Á»§⁄U ≈˛U‚ „ÈU•Ê Á∑§ ÿ„U ©UŸ∑§Ê Ÿ¢’⁄U „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ ’Êà „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„U ‚¡‡ÊŸ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÿÊ •ı⁄U ÿ„U ’Ù‹Ê Á∑§ „U◊¥ flÙ≈U ŒŸ ‚ ßÃŸÊ ¬Ò‚ Œ¥ª?

176 üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ÃÙ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ë ¡Ù ÁSÕÁà ÕË–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÁSÕÁà ÃÙ „U◊ ‚’ ‹Ùª ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U Á‹πÊ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÃÊ „Í¢U– “There were a lot of power brokers and intermediaries who contacted us.” ◊ŸË ◊Ë’ ∑§ß¸, ÃÙ ÿ„U ¬Êfl⁄U ’˝Ù∑§⁄U ÿÊ ß¢≈U⁄U◊ËÁ«U∞≈˛UË¡ ¡Ù „Ò¥U, fl ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ „Ò¥U? ’ÃÊß∞, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊ ©UŸ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ¬Í¿¥Uª– •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬„U‹ ∑§ıŸ ∑§Ê¢≈ÒUÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ¡Ù ‚È„ÒU‹ „ÒU, ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË „ÒU, ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë ÕË, ∞∑§ ÃÙ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ‚, ÃÙ „U◊∑§Ù ‹Ë◊⁄‘UÁ«UÿŸ Ã∑§ ¡Ù.... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ‚ ∑§’ ’Êà Á∑§ÿÊ? •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ’Êà Á∑§ÿÊ? •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ◊⁄‘UÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ë ©UŸ‚ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª „UÙŸ flÊ‹Ë ÕË– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢, „UÙŸ flÊ‹Ë ÕË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ „UË Á‹π „Ò¥U ¬Ò⁄Uʪ˝Ê»§ z ◊¥, ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª »§‹ „UÙ ªÿË– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— fl„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§Ù •⁄‘¥U¡ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, πÈŒÊ ¡ÊŸ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ë fl„U ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹Ê’Ë ◊¥ Õ, »§Ù∞⁄U ◊¥ •ÊŸ-¡ÊŸ ◊¥ •ÊŒ◊Ë ÁŒπ Õ– „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ÃÙ ∑§ß¸ •ÊŒ◊Ë ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U, ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë ÷Ë ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ◊Ò¥ ÷Ë ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U, øÊÿ-¬ÊŸË ÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ê◊ ∑§ Á‹∞– „U¡Ê⁄U •ÊŒ◊Ë •ÊŸ-¡ÊŸ flÊ‹ „UÙÃ „Ò¥U, ¡’ ∑§Ù߸ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ flÊ‹Ê „UÙ ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚¢S∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U ©U‚∑§Ù „U◊ Áfl‡Ê ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– „ÒU‹Ù ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U, ÿ„U ÃÙ •‹ª ’Êà „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ’Á‚∑§‹Ë ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ◊⁄‘UÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ß‚ øË¡ ∑§ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ∑§Êÿ¸flÊ„UË ÿÊ Á«US∑§‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê– ÿ„U •Ê¬ „UË ¬„U‹ ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ ’Êà „ÒU– •ë¿UÊ ÿ„U ‚Ù„U‹ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬ ¡Ù ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ, ‚Ù„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§’ »§S≈¸U ‚¡‡ÊŸ ÁŒ∞? ÿ„U ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊∑§Ù wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „UË, ¡’ „U◊... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË– •Ê¬∑§Ù Á‚øÈ∞‡ÊŸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬„U‹ •Ê»§⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ Á◊‹Ê? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— •Ê»§⁄U ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÃÙ ‚’‚ ¬„U‹ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ë „UË ’ÊÃøËà •ÊÿË Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU– ߟ∑§ „UË Õ˝Í ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’ÊÃøËà Á∑§ÿÊ– wv ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ◊¥ ¡’ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë •Ê∞, •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢, ÃÙ ¬„U‹Ë ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ©U‚ ’ÊÃøËà ◊¥ ‚ „UË ÿ„U Áfl·ÿ ÁŸ∑§‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ „ÒU, •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ø‹∑§⁄U ∑§ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄U ‹¥, ¡Ù ÷Ë ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡’ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë •Ê∞ Õ, ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‚È„ÒU‹ ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞ Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „UÊ¢, fl ÷Ë Õ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— flËÁ«UÿÊ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊÿË Œ ⁄U„U Õ– ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ¡’ ¬Ò‚Ê ‹Ê∞, fl Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë... üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ŒπÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ ÁŒπÊ Œ¥– ’ÊŒ ◊¥ Œπ¥ª ©U‚∑§Ù– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª •¬Ÿ ¬Ê‚ „ÒU, Á¡‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬ Á¬≈Uˇʟ ÁŒ∞ „Ò¥U– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ÃÙ ¬Ò‚ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÿÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ∑§„UË¥ ‹ŸÊ flËÁ«UÿÙ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ πÈŒ „UË ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ª∞ Õ, ÃÙ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ– 177 üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— fl Ÿ„UË¥ Õ– ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË .... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl ’Ù‹ Õ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹ ø‹¥ª, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ¡Ù √ÿÁÄà •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§„U Õ Á∑§ ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ‹ ø‹¥ª, fl ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ¡’ •Ê¬ ª∞ Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ‚È„ÒU‹ ‚ „UË ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ‚È„ÒU‹ ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ªÿÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ë ’Êà ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¬„U‹ •Ê∑§⁄U fl„UË ‚¡‡ÊŸ ÁŒ∞ Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª Á»§Ä‚ „UÙ ªÿË „ÒU, ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ ÕÊ, ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ø‹¥ª– ∑§„UÊ¢ ø‹¥ª, ÿ„U ÃÙ „U◊¥ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ‚ÈŸÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ, ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ∞∑§ ÿÊ ŒÙ ¡ª„U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∞∑§ ÿÊ ŒÙ ¡ª„U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ª∞ Õ, fl •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ, ∞‚Ê •Ê¬Ÿ πÈŒ ’ÃÊÿÊ– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U fl„UÊ¢ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÃÙ fl Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞, ¬⁄U ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ê ¡Ù ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‹Êß¡ÁŸ¢ª Á∑§ÿÊ, ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄U∑§ ≈UÊßÁ◊¢ª ∑§Ê ¡Ù ’ŸÊÿÊ, flÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „UË Á«U‚Êß«U ∑§⁄U∑§ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬„U‹Ë ÷¥≈U ∑§’ „ÈU߸? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ê⁄UË ¬„U‹Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ¡’ ©UŸ‚ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UflÊÿÊ, fl„U ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „UË ∑§⁄UflÊÿÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, „U◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒÃÊ Á∑§ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥– •Ê¬ ¡Ù ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ß‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ „U◊¥ ∑§ŸÁfl¢‚ „UÙŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝Í»§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ÷Ë Õ– •Ê¬ ¡’ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ’Ê„U⁄U ÁŸ∑§‹ Õ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿê’⁄U „ÒU, ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ üÊË ªıÃ◊ ∑§ •‹ÊflÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ß¸ ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ¬‚¸ã‚, ≈UËflË ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ¡ ÷Ë Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©UŸ◊¥ ‚ Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ù ⁄UÙ∑§∑§⁄U, Äfl‡øŸ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ÿÊ »§Ù≈UÙ ‹ŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– ¡’ ßÃŸË ’«∏UË øË¡ ø‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U fl„UÊ¢ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∑§Ê«¸U ¡Ò‚ ‹Ùª ÁÉÊ⁄‘U „ÈU∞ Õ, ◊ȤÊ •Ê‡øÿ¸ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ©UŸ◊¥ ‚ Á∑§‚Ë ∞∑§ Ÿ ÷Ë ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ù ⁄UÙ∑§∑§⁄U »§Ù≈UÙ ‹ŸÊ ÿÊ ¬Í¿UŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê– „U◊Ÿ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ¡Ù ŒπÊ, ’Ò∑§‚Êß«U ◊¥ ∑§fl‹ ∞∑§ ∑ȧÃʸ ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ ¬Ë¿U ‚Ë≈U πÊ‹Ë ÕË •ı⁄U fl„U ß◊¡ ÷Ë Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË– •Ê¬ „U◊¥ ÿ„U ∑Ò§‚ ∑§ŸÁfl¢‚ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„¥Uª Á∑§ ©U‚ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ •Ê¬ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U ªÿ Õ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ê⁄UË •¢Œ⁄U ¡Ù ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’ÊÃøËà •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ∑§⁄UÊÿË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ¬„U‹ ‚ ’„ÈUà •ë¿UË Ã⁄U„U ‚ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— Ÿ„UË¥, „U◊ ¬„U‹ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑Ò§‚ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÈU•Ê Á∑§ ÿ„U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ „ÒU? •Ê¬ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ– ©U‚ Ã⁄U»§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Õ– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ ¬„UøÊŸÃ „Ò¥U?

178 üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ê⁄UË •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ¬˝àÿˇÊ ’Êà „ÈU߸? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ ¡Ù ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UflÊŸ ∑§Ê „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ‚’Íà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©UŸ∑§ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿê’⁄U ‚ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ‹Ë«U‚¸ „Ò¥U– ¡’ ∑§Ù߸ ∞‚Ë ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ¬Á⁄UÁSÕÁà „UÙÃË „ÒU Ã’ ÿ„U ŸøÈ⁄U‹ „ÒU Á∑§ ⁄UÊà ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡ „UÙ, ∞∑§ ’¡ „UÙ, ŒÙ ’¡ „UÙ, ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ‹Ë«U‚¸ •Ê¬‚ ◊¥ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄UÃ ⁄U„UÃ „Ò¥U– ¡’ flÙ≈U •ÊÚ»§ ≈˛US≈U „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, øÊ„U ∞Ÿ«UË∞ ∑§Ê „UÙ ÿÊ ÿͬË∞ ∑§Ê „UÙ, ¡Ù ÷Ë „UÙ ∞∑§ ‚Êß«U „UÙ ÿÊ ŒÙ ‚Êß«U „UÙ, •Ê¬‚ ◊¥ ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ∑§Ÿfl‚¸‡ÊŸ „UÙÃË „UË „ÒU– ÄÿÊ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ©U‚ Ã⁄U»§ ∑§ıŸ Õ, •Ê¬ „U◊¥ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§ŸÁfl¢‚ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª Á∑§ ÿ„U ¬Ò‚ ∑§ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ „ÈU•Ê– •Ê¬ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§ŸÁfl¢‚ „ÈU∞ Á∑§ ©U‚ Ã⁄U»§ »§‹ÊŸ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ ÕË– fl„U ¬Ë∞ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ê ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝Í»§ „U◊Ÿ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ „ÒU– Á¡‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ‚Ê⁄UË Á¬≈Uˇʟ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄UπË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ’Êà ∑§„UÊ¢ „ÈU߸ Á∑§ ÃËŸ ∑§◊‹ •Ê ªÿ „Ò¥U? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U •¢Œ⁄U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ¡’ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË, ÿ„U ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬Ÿ •÷Ë ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ¡Ù ’Ù‹Ê „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U ŒÙ ∑§◊‹ ªÿ Õ Á»§⁄U ÃË‚⁄‘U ∑§◊‹ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •Ê߸? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— üÊË ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ‚ÍøŸÊ ŒË Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ „ÒU– y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ◊¥ ¡’ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ •Êÿ, Ã’ ©UŸ‚ ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ’Êà ∑§ã»§◊¸ ÷Ë ∑§⁄UÊ߸ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊ ªÿ ŒÙ Õ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÃË‚⁄UÊ fl„UÊ¢ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬Ÿ •¬Ÿ Á«U¬ÙÁ¡‡ÊŸ ◊¥ ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑ȧ¿U ‚◊¤ÊıÃÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– •Ê¬ ÿÊ πÈ⁄UÊŸÊ ‚Ê„U’ ©U‚ ∞ÿ⁄U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– Á¬˝¢≈U ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ „UÙ ÿÊ ß‹ÒÄ≈˛UÊÁŸ∑§ ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ „UÙ, ©U‚ ÁŒπÊŸÊ ÿÊ Ÿ ÁŒπÊŸÊ ©UŸ∑§Ê ⁄UÊß≈U „ÒU– ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¡Ù ‚◊¤ÊıÃÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, fl„U Á∑§‚ ’Êà ¬⁄U „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ? ÄÿÊ •◊Ê©¢U≈U flªÒ⁄U„U ŒŸ ∑§Ë ∑ȧ¿U ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ ÕË? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— „U◊Ÿ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– üÊË ‚ÈœË⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ Ÿ „UË ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ß‹Ä≈˛UÊÁŸ∑§ ÿÊ Á¬˝¢≈U ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ∑§Ù ¡’⁄UŒSÃË ∑§⁄U∑§ ≈U‹Ë∑§ÊS≈U ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ ÿÊ Á‹πflÊŸÊ, fl„U ÷Ë ∞∑§ Ã⁄UË∑§ ∑§Ë ‚¥‚⁄UÁ‡Ê¬ „UÙÃË „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, •Ê¬ ∞∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ „UÙŸ ∑§ ŸÊÃ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ‚ÙøÃ „Ò¥U? ©UŸ∑§Ê »˝§Ë«U◊ •ÊÚ»§ ¬˝Ò‚ ∑§Ê „U∑§ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ¡’ ß‚ ¬Í⁄UË ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ∑§Ê ŒÎ‡ÿ •ÊÿÊ Ã’ ©U‚◊¥ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ÁŒ‹ÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ß‚ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ¬˝Êßfl≈U •⁄‘Uã¡◊Òã≈U ÕÊ– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UË ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ë– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U ¬˝Êßfl≈U •⁄‘Uã¡◊Ò¥≈U ÕÊ– fl„U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë, •Ê¬∑§Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ’Ëø ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU, ß‚◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥ Á‚»¸§ ÿ„U ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ãÿÍ¡ ¬¬⁄U „UÙ ÿÊ ß‹ÒÄ≈˛UÊÁŸ∑§ ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ „UÙ, ∞∑§ øË¡ ∑§Ù ≈U‹Ë∑§ÊS≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ÿÊ Á‹πŸÊ, »˝§Ë«U◊ •ÊÚ»§ ¬˝Ò‚, Á¡‚◊¥ „U◊ ‚’∑§Ê Áfl‡flÊ‚ „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ê „U∑§ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥?

179 üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ÿ„U ©UŸ∑§Ê Áfl·ÿ „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •ª⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ÁŒ‹ÊÿÊ „ÒU ÃÙ fl„U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄UπŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— fl„U Áfl‡flÊ‚ Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¡ŸÃÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§Ê ©U‚ øÒŸ‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝Êßfl≈U •⁄‘Uã¡◊Ò¥≈U ÕÊ– ©UŸ∑§Ê ©U‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§ã‚Ÿ¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊ ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝‡Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁŒπÊÿÊ, ß‚ fl¡„U ‚ •Ê¬Ÿ fl„UÊ¢ ŸÙ≈U ⁄Uπ ÿÊ ÿ„U ’Êà „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬∑§Ù Áfl‡flÊ‚ ÁŒ‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ß‚ ≈U‹Ë∑§ÊS≈U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª •ÊÒ⁄U ¡’ ≈U‹Ë∑§ÊS≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ •Ê¬Ÿ ŸÙ≈U fl„UÊ¢ ⁄Uπ, ¡Ù •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU, ÿÊ ÿ„U ¬Ù¡Ë‡ÊŸ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ÿÁŒ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ øÒŸ‹ ‚ËœÊ ¬˝‚Ê⁄UUáÊ ∑§⁄U ŒÃ, ÃÙ „U◊ ©U‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù ’ÃÊ ‚∑§Ã Õ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ≈U‹Ë∑§ÊS≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ÿÊ Ÿ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ∞«UË≈U⁄U ∑§Ê ∞Ä‚Ä‹ÍÁ‚fl ⁄UÊß≈U „ÒU, ©U‚ ∑§Ù߸ »§Ù‚¸ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— »§Ù‚¸ ∑§Ê ‚flÊ‹ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ù ◊ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U– ÿÁŒ »§Ù‚¸ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª ÃÙ fl„U ÷Ë ∞∑§ ߟ«UÿÊ⁄‘UÄ≈U Ã⁄UË∑§ ∑§Ê ‚¥‚⁄UÁ‡Ê¬ „UË „ÒU– ‚¥‚⁄UÁ‡Ê¬ ∑§fl‹ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚ ∞«UË≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ß‚◊¥ Œ’Êfl ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ◊Ò≈U⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, „U◊ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù Á‹πÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ‚Êß«U ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ◊ÊS≈U⁄U ◊Êߢ«U „UÙ ÿÊ Ÿ „UÙ, •Ê¬∑§ ◊ÊS≈U⁄U ◊Êߢ«U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Õ– „U◊Ÿ ¡Ù ¬Í¿UŸÊ ÕÊ, fl„U ¬Í¿U Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ •ª⁄U •Ê¬ •¬ŸË Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ∑§Á„U∞– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊⁄UÊ ÿ„UË ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ◊⁄‘U ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U •Êÿ Õ– ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬„U‹ ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ ÕÊ– øÍ¢Á∑§ ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ fl •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U ªÿ– ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, fl„U ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊Ÿ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§‚◊ πÊ∑§⁄U ’Ù‹Ê „ÒU, „U◊ Á’À∑ȧ‹ •‚àÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, „U◊Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‚àÿ ⁄UπÊ „ÒU– „U◊ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ªÿ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ fl„UË¥ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ∑§Ê flÊÿŒÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ©UŸ∑§Ê •ÊŒ◊Ë üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ◊⁄‘U ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U •Êÿ, ÿ„U ÁŒπ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§ ◊Ù’Êß‹ ∑§Ù fl⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄UflÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ©UŸ∑§Ê ◊Ù’Êß‹ ◊⁄‘U Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ∑§ ≈UÊfl‚¸ ‚ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ ◊Òø πÊÿªÊ– ©UŸ‚ ◊⁄UË ¬Ê¢ø-¿U— ’Ê⁄U ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë, ¡’ L§¬ÿ ‹∑§⁄U •Êÿ, fl„U Ã’ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U •ÊœË ⁄UÊà ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚Ê…∏U ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡ •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ •Êÿ, „U◊Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÊ ◊¥ ¡Ù ŒπÊ „ÒU, üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U Ÿ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê ÁŒ‹ÊÿÊ– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ „Í¢U ŸÊ, •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ÄÿÙ¥– fl„U ÄÿÊ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÿ„U S¬c≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, Á‚»¸§ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ „Í¢U, ◊Ë’ ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ „Í¢U, «UË‹ ÿÊ ª«∏U’«∏UË ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪˖ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê •Ê‡Êÿ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ß‚◊¥ S¬c≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ∑§fl‹ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •◊Ê©¢U≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– ◊Ò¥ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà ∑§Ë „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‹Ùª •¬ŸË ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹ŸÊ– ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ø‹Ù, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ „U◊ ø‹∑§⁄U •Êÿ „Ò¥U, ßÃŸË Œ⁄U „UÙ ªÿË, ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§Ù ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „UË ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê ÁŒ‹ÊÿÊ– Á»§⁄U •Ê¬ ©Uã„¥U ¿UÙ«∏U∑§⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑Ò§‚ ø‹ ªÿ? Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ë Á⁄U‚¬ıÁã‚Á’Á‹≈UË ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∑§⁄U ∑§„U ÁŒÿÊ, ÿ„U ∞∑§ ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU– ©Uã„¥U Á’ŸÊ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ◊¥ Á‹ÿ ÿÊ ©UŸ∑§Ë ©U¬ÁSÕÁà ∑§ Á’ŸÊ •Ê¬ ‚Ëœ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U Á∑§Ÿ∑§ ÷⁄UÙ‚ ø‹ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U? •Ê¬Ÿ Á∑§‚ ¬⁄U Áfl‡flÊ‚ Á∑§ÿÊ? üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— ◊⁄UÊ •Ê¬‚ •Êª˝„U „ÒU Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿê’⁄U fl⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄UflÊ Á‹ÿ ¡Êÿ¥–

180 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ •‹ª ’Êà „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê ∑Ò§‚ „UÙ ªÿÊ– ¡’ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Sflÿ¢ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÁŸ◊¢òÊáÊ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ øÁ‹∞– Á»§⁄U fl ∞é‚Ò¥≈U „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê ⁄U„U, ¡ÊŸ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù•Ê¬⁄‘U≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ø‹ ªÿ, •Ê¬Ÿ Á∑§‚ ¬⁄U Áfl‡flÊ‚ Á∑§ÿÊ? •Ê¬∑§Ù Á∑§‚Ë ¬⁄U ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê ÃÙ „ÈU•Ê „U٪ʖ ÿ„U ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬„U‹ „U◊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl„U ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •ë¿UÊ ÿ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ¬⁄U ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê ∑§⁄U∑§ ªÿ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹— •Ê¬ ¬Í¿U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl ◊⁄‘U ÁŸflÊ‚ ¬⁄U •Êÿ Õ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ fl ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ •Êÿ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù •¬ŸË Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ’ÃÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù •¬ŸË Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ∑§„U ŒËÁ¡∞– „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ¡Ù ¬Í¿UŸÊ ÕÊ, fl„U ¬Í¿U Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ— ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ßÃŸÊ „UË ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ∑§Ê ¡Ù Ãâÿ „ÒU, „U◊Ÿ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë Á‹π∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U •ˇÊ⁄U‡Ê— ‚„UË „ÒU– ÿ„U ¡M§⁄U „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ŒπŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ß‚◊¥ ’„ÈUà ‚Ë øË¡¥ ’Ê„U⁄U •ÊßZ– ÿ„U ‚„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ù ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU ¬⁄UãÃÈ ßÃŸÊ ¡M§⁄U „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ¬⁄U ÁŸc¬ˇÊ ∑§Ê⁄¸UflÊ߸ „UÙŸË øÊÁ„U∞– „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ∑§◊≈UË ‚ ∑§fl‹ ßÃŸÊ „UË ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU, ߸◊ÊŸŒÊ⁄UË ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‚Ê⁄‘U ÃâÿÙ¥, ‚Ê⁄UË ª∆UŸÊ, øÊ„U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ „UÙ, ’ÊÃøËà ∑§Ê ∑˝§◊ „UÙ, „U◊Ÿ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ù ߸◊ÊŸŒÊ⁄UË ‚ Á‹π∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄UË ÿ„UË ‚àÿÃÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑ȧ‹SÃ •ÊÒ⁄U •‡ÊÙ∑§ ¡Ë, •Ê¬∑§Ê œãÿflÊŒ– •’ •Ê¬ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– (ÃଇøÊØ ‚ÊˇÊË ’Ê„U⁄U ø‹ ªÿ) ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¬„U‹ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÿÊ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊Ÿ ¡Ò‚ ¬„U‹ Ãÿ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ üÊË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ •ÊÒ⁄U üÊË ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU– MR. CHAIRMAN: We will call CNN-IBN on the 11th with whatever they bring.

MD. SALIM: Whichever they want, üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, the team who conducted that. flËÁ«UÿÊ ◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ê ∞¬Ëÿ⁄‘¥U‚ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Naturally we call them. Shall we call others on 18th? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ’È‹Êßÿ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: On 18th, we will call Shri Rewati Raman Singh. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— üÊË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ¬˝Ùª˝Ê◊ „ÒU, ‚’ ‹Ùª ÿ„UÊ¢ •Êÿ¥ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª „ÒU–

181 ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ •Êÿ¥ª– Members may ask questions. Let us keep CNN-IBN on 11th. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ „U٪ʖ

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©Uã„¥U „U◊ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ’È‹Êÿ¥ª– On 18th, we will call Sanjeev Saxena, Sudhir Kulkarni and Raja Hindustani also. ‚¢ÿÈÄà ‚Áøfl— ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ê ∞«˛ÒU‚ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ©U‚ ∞«˛ÒU‚ ∑§Ù ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë „UË Œ ¬Êÿ¥ª– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ê¬ üÊË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹Êßÿ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, „U◊ üÊË ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ •ÊÒ⁄U ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹Êÿ¥ª– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Êßÿ–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ the Secretariat will find out from Kulkarni and Saxena. MD. SALIM: We do not know where they will be. MR. CHAIRMAN: We should call Shri Bardhan because he has been mentioned in the petition. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©Uã„¥U •÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥, ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ŒπÊ ¡ÊÿªÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ„U ÃÙ ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: The petitioner has mentioned his name in the original petition. MR. SALIM: I do not think that will help. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ßß ‚Ê⁄‘U ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ◊¥ •Ê¬ ∑Ò§‚ ’È‹Êÿ¥ª? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚flÊ‹ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ≈˛US≈U flÙ≈U ◊¥ „UçÃ Ã∑§ flœ¸Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ⁄‘U»§⁄Ò¥U‚ „UÙÃÊ ⁄U„UÊ Á∑§ wz ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ’Ù‹ ÁŒÿ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: The petitioner has mentioned it. But we have to decide. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ßß ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù •Ê¬ ∑Ò§‚ ’È‹Êÿ¥ª?

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ß‚◊¥ ∑§fl‹ ∞∑§ ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU, but I will go by whatever you say. ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿÁŒ Ÿ‚‚⁄UË „ÈU•Ê, ÃÙ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ŒπÊ ¡ÊÿªÊ–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ß‚Á‹∞ ’Ù‹Ê „ÒU Á∑§ ‹ÊS≈U ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ◊¥ ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ only those names given by the petitioner should be called. ¬≈Uˇʟ⁄U Ÿ ß‚ ŸÊ◊ ∑§Ù ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ I am taking the view of the Committee.

◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ò‚ •Ê¡ ’Êà „ÈU߸ •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ ÷Ë ŒπÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ÷Ë Œπ¥ª, what I say is that why should we depend on the material supplied by some interested party. We should have verification of these phone numbers or cars done by the Secretariat. It is not an acquisition, but we should have our own verification. We should find out the phone numbers, the service provides and the audio records of those. We should ask for it. If it is available, it will help us, if it is not available, we wil find some other way.

182 MR. CHAIRMAN: It is not on record to which company it is from. MD. SALIM: I can tell you from the phone number. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ◊Ù’Êß‹ ¬⁄U Ÿê’⁄U •Ê ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ¡Ù ∑§Ê‹ Á«U≈UÀ‚ •ÊÃË „Ò¥U, ©U‚◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë ◊Ò¥‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©U‚◊¥ ∑§ê¬ŸË ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ◊Ò¥‡ÊŸ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Ÿ„UË¥, ∑§flÁ⁄¢Uª ‹Ò≈U⁄U ◊¥ „U٪ʖ ∑§flÁ⁄¢Uª ‹Ò≈U⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: There is no problem.

MD. SALIM: The problem mainly is that the covering letter was not given to us. MR. CHAIRMAN: Somebody has written in fountain pen. We will find out. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¡Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, ©U‚ •Ê¬ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑§Á⁄U∞– „U◊¥ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ Ã∑§ ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: So, we will write to the Ministry of Communication and ask them to find out the numbers. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •ª⁄U •Ê¬ ◊Ù’Êß‹ ¬⁄U Ÿê’⁄U Á‹π¥ª, ÃÙ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ¡ÊÿªÊ Á∑§ fl„U Ÿê’⁄U Á∑§‚∑§Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ „ÒU– ¡Ù ∑§êåÿÍ≈U⁄UÊßÖ«U ◊Ù’Êß‹ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¬ Ÿê’⁄U Á‹π¥ª, ÃÙ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ¡ÊÿªÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: It has to be authenticated, according to the procedure. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •ª‹Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª •Ê¬ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ⁄UÁπÿ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. (ÃଇøÊØ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë ∑§Êÿ¸flÊ„UË SÕÁªÃ „ÈU߸)

183 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 11 August, 2008, comprising evidence of: (i) Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN (ii) Shri Sidhartha Gautam, Reporter (iii) Shri Rohit Khanna, Producer (iv) Shri Saif R. Kidwai, Producer (v) Shri Sudesh Bhat, Cameraperson (vi) Shri Karamveer, Cameraperson MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Rajdeep Sardesai and all your colleagues, I welcome you to the sitting of this Committee. As you are aware, you have been requested to appear before this Committee to give evidence regarding the sting operation conducted by CNN-IBN concerning the alleged offer of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, three of our colleagues from Lok Sabha, in connection with voting on the Confidence Motion. I would like to inform all of you that under Rule 275 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Lok Sabha, the evidence that you give before the Committee is to be treated as confidential till the Report of the Committee and its proceedings are presented to the Lok Sabha. Any premature disclosure or publication of the proceedings of the Committee would constitute breach of privilege and contempt of the House. The evidence that you give before the Committee would, however, be reported to the House after which it becomes a public document. I would now request you to introduce yourselves and take Oath one-by-one. (Introduction) (Witnesses S/Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, Sidhartha Gautam, Rohit Khanna, Saif R. Kidwai, Sudesh Bhat and Karamveer then took oath) MR. CHAIRMAN: I would like to mention that during the course of our discussion, if anyone of you feel more comfortable in Hindi, you are free to speak either in Hindi or English. You are aware that the Petition, which was submitted to the Speaker by our colleagues, has cited your recording and sting operation as the main source of evidence as far as this entire episode was concerned. We have received, through hon. Speaker’s Office, five cassettes originally out of which one is an audio cassette and four are video cassettes. Subsequently, we got one more audio and video cassette. So, in total we have seven cassettes in all. I have made copies of all those and circulated to the hon. Members of the Committee to view them before proceeding further on this. We made our own transcript also. The Lok Sabha Secretariat has done this. If you would like to elaborate further or say anything about these cassettes, you can do so. After which my colleagues will make queries to which you will respond. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Sir, at the outset, I just want to say that we are adding one more tape because some Members apparently have gone out and said that what about their over- ground interviews. There were interviews that we had done subsequent to the sting operation and since there have been questions raised, we are handing over whatever is over-ground also. It includes interviews that we have done with the three concerned MPs. We did not give it initially because those MPs had said the same thing also in the press conference that they had. We had given what was connected to the sting operation. However, we did do interviews plus shot the money which was on the table. We have shot of that over-ground. So, you will get an opportunity to check that money with what was perhaps displayed in the House. So, we have that tape and we would like to hand over that tape also so that there is no confusion on this ground. It is because MPs are going out and saying that the tapes are tampered with but nothing has been tampered or touched. MR. CHAIRMAN: I think you can hand it over to the Secretariat. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: So, that is the tape.

187 PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHTORA: Is it only one copy?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: This is the tape which contains the interviews and what was over- ground that means shot without the hidden camera. It contains interviews of all these three MPs, I contains a piece-two camera of our reporter who was there and it contains shots of the money. That is basically what it contains.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Are these the only cassettes which you have in possession or you have any other material as far as this operation is concerned?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Sir, these are the only cassettes that are directly in connection with the operation. Subsequent to that, we have interviewed Mr. Amar Singh and Mr. Arun Jaitley. We have said that we reserve the right to telecast. I think, Sir, you yourself have also said publicly that nothing stops us from telecasting it. So, we have gone and done interviews of BJP, Congress and all other leaders subsequent to the operation. So, as and when we telecast it we can hand them over to you also.

MR. CHAIRMAN: But these have nothing to do with the sting operation per se?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Not with the sting operation. But let me clarify it. We have got a written statement to that effect. One of the reasons why we did not telecast these tapes on that day or at that time was, we felt that we needed to cross-check and verify all the information that was there. Over the last couple of weeks, we have done that.

However, we also felt it was important to appear before the parliamentary panel before we telecast anything. We do intend to telecast it and whatever is there subsequent to that, is only by nature of cross checking. As part of our investigation, we felt it was necessary to go to the BJP, Congress and more importantly to the BJP and Samajwadi Party. We want to make this clear that up to now, we have been targeted for doing the sting operations. The point is that when sting operations are done, politicians sometimes ask why do we just telecast without cross- checking. Now we go through a process of cross-checking and verification. We showed the tapes to all the people involved in them, got them to comment on it and then we intend to telecast. So, it should be made clear that our intention not to telecast was not because we were hiding anything but because we felt that as journalists we needed to cross-check the information. So, we have made that effort to cross-check it and I think people need to recognise that. People have, unfortunately, not recognised that a journalist’s time-line is not of politician’s time-line. A politician or a political party may expect depending on which side they are ø‹Ù, ¡Ù ÷Ë „ÒU, ÁŒπÊ ŒÙ, ¬⁄UãÃÈ „U◊¥ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÁŒπÊŸ ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ’ŸÃË– You have to first cross-check. It involves Members of Parliament. It is a sensitive matter. There are various interpretations today. We felt it necessary to cross-check it. Over the last couple of weeks, our reporters have gone and cross-checked also and we do intend to telecast once we have appeared in front of you without compromising on anything that we say to you. We will not reveal anything we have said to you but we do reserve our right to telecast because both the Speaker and yourself, Sir, have made it clear in public that the channel is entitled to telecast it without that being a breach of privilege. So, we stick to that stand. We have checked with our lawyers also. They also re-affirmed the same. But broadly we have got a statement and our written submissions that we would like to give you These are written submissions.

188 If I may explain, Shri Sidhartha Gautam was the Reporter who was in the operation, Shri Saif R. Kidwai was the Producer, Shri Karamveer and Shri Sudesh were the Camerapersons and Shri Rohit Khanna is our Executive Producer. Put it altogether, these are the people who had access in some form or the other. Hence they have all appeared here. They have made one joint written submission of the circumstances that led us to do this. I think we have a copy of it and we will share that with you as well as the copy of all the other information which includes a letter we gave to the Speaker the next day when we handed over the tape. It also includes a legal opinion that we had from Mr. Harish Salve who is our lawyer as to why at that time we could not telecast the tapes since that had become an issue and it includes a press statement that we had given in response to those who were questioning us as to why we were not telecasting the tapes. So all these four—the written submission of mine as well as my colleague’s, the opinion of Mr. Harish Salve, the press statement and we have given two sets of both. We are handing over all these to you. So, that is what we have. They will give the circumstances which led us to do it. It is very clearly given as to why we decided to do this.

Sir, if I may be allowed two minutes, I just want to explain. Actually on the 14th of July, Mr. A.B. Bardhan, the General-Secretary and senior leader of CPI made an acquisition that Rs. 25 crore is what MPs are being bought at. At that time I asked Shri Siddhartha Gautam who is our Special Investigation Reporter why does he not go and find out from MPs ÄÿÊ ß‚◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ‚àÿ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? He met MPs for seven days. He continuously met different Party people and also met Independents to try and get some information. So, this is not as if the sting operation was the only thing we were doing. We had spoken to other MPs also. Shri Nilotpal Basu of CPM was there. We spoke to other independent MPs. We spoke to Congress and BJP to get some information. It is in the course of that exercise that our sources in the BJP said finally on 21st that they could provide us direct evidence and that is what led us to accompany these MPs. These MPs for us were only sources. They are not collaborators and therefore we cannot go by their time line. They may have wanted us to telecast it right away. But no such assurances were given. We said that when we have a full story, we will certainly telecast. The very fact that we have decided to investigate this means that we felt there was something in it and we were investigating it across party lines. It was not as if he was only doing it with one party. So, he met people from all parties on this. I think these clarifications are there in our written submissions and therefore if you read the written submissions, it is very clear. Our purpose was purely a journalistic enterprise. We are not politicians and we do not want to get into a political battle. We did not want to get into a political tangle. So for us it was a journalistic exercise which we had undertaken on the 14th of July evening when Mr. A.B. Bardhan in the afternoon made a statement. For six days he was ringing up MPs and meeting them as part of the exercise. MPs were not wiling to come on camera naturally. On camera they would say that they have heard of these allegations ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊ ß‚∑§Ê •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝◊ÊáÊ Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– It was only on 21st that we decide to go along with this because we felt we could get some hard evidence may be. Sir, in this entire exercise, if you see the tapes our reporter is in the other room. He is not a participant in any way. He was a fly on the wall. He has not participated in any way. That is why, we could not even hear it. At that time, we did not know who the gentleman coming. We had cross-checked it. It is now that this information is coming into the public domain as to who these people are and that is also being said by one side or the other. So, our sole purpose in this exercise was this as part of wider investigation we were doing into these allegations which we felt were in the public interest. These were extremely serious allegations being made by a very senior politician and they were being freely made. So, we felt to investigate it.

189 After we had seen the tape our Producer felt that there were many gaps and we needed to fill those gaps and therefore, we set about a process of cross-checking and corroboration but handed over the tapes to the Speaker because we did not want anyone to say that there was something to hide. People have asked the question why did it take 24 hours. Let me make it clear, we approached the Speaker that evening itself that we have certain tapes because a political party had named our channel we felt it was necessary and at that stage once it has gone to Parliament and put the money on the Table to expect us to carry on the investigation was not possible. They had effectively put my reporter’s life, I would say in jeopardy because he was in a position where he could be targeted tomorrow. So, we then decided let us hand over the tapes to the Speaker. On that evening itself we made a request and the Speaker called us next day at 12.00 in the afternoon. At that meeting, he said that it is up to you to decide when you want to hand over the tapes. But we handed it over at exactly 5 o’clock that evening. Nothing has been touched in the tapes. We have not in any way edited it and not a single frame is out. Where the audio quality is bad it is only because that is the nature of hidden camera. We also have our own transcript of it. We can share it but as you said, you have a prepared transcript. MR. CHAIRMAN: We have prepared a transcript. After this we will be happy to have your transcript also. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We will give our transcript also. You can match it to whatever extent to see if there are any discrepancies. MR. CHAIRMAN: In case we have missed out something, we can get it. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: So, this is all what we can say at the moment. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Mr. Sardesai, there can be some difference of opinion on the statement you made now that why did you not telecast it. But there were some questions which were to be asked and you have now come forward to give us the tapes. We definitely on that day also asked this question that the Member said that there was a normal camera recording and that has not been the part of the tapes. Now you have said that that was not the part of the sting operation and that is why you did not do it. Now you are placing it before us but I would like to ask two-three questions. Is it a fact that you had two video cameras located in the room in which the recording was done and that these cameras had common audio recorder? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes. There were two cameras. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Is it a fact that there was an additional audio recorder which was installed in the room? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes, Sir. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Then you have given us one audio tape but not the other one. When Mr. Sanjeev Saxena came in the room that has been taken by the other audio recorder, that has not been given to us. We have only been given when Shri Rewati Ramanji was there. Shri Rewati Raman’s audio recording of whatever talks were there is available. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Sir, the set up was same on 21st and 22nd. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: But there was another audio also. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: Yes, Sir. It is because we had given two cassettes but on the subsequent day there was a call from here that the audio tape quality of one of the audio recording was

190 not clear. Since we were not clear which of the audio is not clear, for safety sake I brought fresh copies of both the meetings and handed them over to Mr. Sajwan. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: But when Shri Rewati Raman is there, it is all audible. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I think there is a confusion. In the hidden camera recorder, there is an automatic thing which records the audio. So, this is one and second was the small wireless recorder which was there but audio is same. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: When Mr. Sanjeev Saxena came in the room, that audio is not there, when you had two separate audio recorders. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: That audio should be there in one of the two tapes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: You can see the video and later on tell us whether that audio recording is available or not. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Two tapes were given of both the audio recordings. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: One is audible and in the other nothing is audible. It is totally inaudible. There is almost nothing in that. (Audio Tape was played) ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ ÷Ë ß‚Ë ≈U¬ ◊¥ „ÒU?

SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: Sir, you just need to wait a little longer. I think this is the time when he has not entered. Is it possible to play seven DVC pro tapes which I had handed over? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Do you have a DVC pro player? MD. SALIM: They have given us the tapes but now we are playing the CD. In this situation, because of the condition of the camera and recording, poor audio quality is there. The more you copy the more it becomes difficult. Therefore, I want to know if that tape can be played instead of the copy. Secondly, you have given us two tapes. As you have rightly told, the telecast right is yours. So, you must have kept the original copy with you and given us a copy of that for our benefit. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: You can also see it in DVC Pro, if you want. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: I am saying two things. Firstly, some of this discussion is, what we call in our parlance, something which is happening before the operational part of the tape, possibly before the entry of the person. So, I need to listen to this a little longer to confirm which audio is this and secondly, if those seven DVC Pro tapes could be brought, it would be better because I have a feeling that the label on the tapes will clearly indicate ÿ„U ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‚Ê •ÊÁ«UÿÙ „ÒU– Then I can identify it more clearly. Till that comes, we can just play this a little longer. When we come to the operational part, I can possibly tell you ÿ„U ∑§ıŸ ‚Ê •ÊÁ«UÿÙ „ÒU–

(The audio tape was played) SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: This is probably the Shri Rewati Raman tape. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Shri Rewati Raman’s audio is all right. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: This is Shri Rewati Raman’s audio.

191 PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: That is true. But what about Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s recording? That audio is not available. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: The other audio tape is also there.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: let us hear the other audio tape also. ß‚◊¥ ÃÙ Á»§⁄U ÷Ë ∑ȧ¿U ‚ÈŸÊ߸ ŒÃÊ „ÒU, ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ◊¥ ÃÙ Á’À∑ȧ‹ ‚ÈŸÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U flÊ‹Ë ø‹Êß∞–

(The audio tape was played) SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I want to confirm whether the two tapes which had been delivered subsequently, ÄÿÊ ©UŸ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ≈Uå‚ ∑§ ‚Ë«UË •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ „Ò¥U? Are those the ones which he is playing, I mean, of the two tapes which I had brought later? PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: If you have got the recording of the other one also, we would like to have a copy. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I was also saying to listen to DVC Pro, not on DVD. You may listen to it on DVC Pro and we can give you the audio. But the audio of both have been given. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: According to whatever is available to us, we came to know that there were two audio recorders also in the room. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Both have been given. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: So, the additional audio recorder gave the Shri Rewati Raman’s total episode but not a word about Shri Sanjeev Saxena. So, we would like to have that. Is it possible that verbatim transcript or whatever we could get out of this could be given to us? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We have given the transcript. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We would like to have the total transcript. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We have got it, Sir. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: Can I just see the label on the tapes? (The audio tape was played) SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: This particular tape should have the audio of the Shri Sanjeev Saxena meeting, the output of the remote mike where the audio is the clearest. This tape should have it. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: But it is not there. MD. SALIM: Can you play it in this system? SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: We can just play it and see whether it is possible or not. Otherwise, it is an error on our part. We can play and check it. ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡’ Ã∑§ fl„U •ÊÃÊ „ÒU, „U◊ ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿U ‹Ã „Ò¥U–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Shri Sanjeev Saxena came in a white gypsy according to the tapes. Does Sidhartha Gautam have the number of that gypsy? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No, Sir. I have not seen the gypsy and I do not have the number.

192 PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did your reporter record the number of the white zen in which the MPs went to 27, Lodhi Estate? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: It was a white zen. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: The Members went to the Lodhi Estate and in the CD, only two people are seen. •ı⁄U ŒÙ ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒÃ „Ò¥U– Did that car had the two MPs also?

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I did not see them, Sir I just took the shots of the car. That is all. I do not know who was inside. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: There was a driver and one other person in the front. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: He was visible as he was sitting in the front seat. But I do not know who was sitting behind. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did you go with the MPs to the Lodhi Estate? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No. We reached first and they came later. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: So, you were the first to go there and they came later on. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did you see these two MPs going there? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No, Sir. I did not. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Then why did you go to 27, Lodhi Estate? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: When we left 4, Ferozeshah Road, it was told to us that we need to go to 27, Lodhi Estate to meet Mr. Amar Singh. So, we said that we will leave before them so that we can take shots of their car coming there. So, we left early and we reached 27, Lodi Estate. It is there in the tape. Car is visible and the number is visible. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: The number is given. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: You or the team recorded the white Zen going in and coming out of Shri Amar Singh’s house? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did they see Shri Sohail alias Raja Hindusthani sitting in the front of that Zen car? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: yes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did your team record the white Zen because they know the MPs were in the car? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: We were told that from 4, Ferozeshah Road we have to go to 27, Lodhi Estate. So, that is the reason we shot this car. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Are the recordings shot by you and submitted by you are the final one, true and honest? Has everything been recorded?

193 SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: There is no tape or nothing of that sort with you that has not been given to us? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Nothing. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did Shri Sidhartha Gautam receive an SMS on 20th July 2008 from Shri Sanjiv Saxena to the effect conveying him of the press conference at 7.00 p.m.? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No, I did not get it. SHRI RAJDEEEP SARDESAI: Shri Sidhartha Gautam does not cover any political party. So, even if there was such an SMS, it would not have come to him. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did anybody else receive that SMS? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: No, none of us here had received it. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: There is a young man in yellow colour shirt, he is seen carrying the money inside the room. There is a person who is seen carrying that with Shri Sanjiv Saxena. That has been recorded by you. That record is there. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Is it the same man who was there in 27, Lodhi Estate also outside? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No, I do not know. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: In the tape it is there. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No, I do not know. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: In the tape he is there. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I did not notice that. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§¬«∏UÊ «UÊ‹ „ÈU∞ ŸÙ≈UÙ¥ ∑§Ê ’Òª ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ, ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ÒŸÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ, fl„U ß‚◊¥ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U«U „ÒU– fl„UË •ÊŒ◊Ë w|, ‹ÙŒË ⁄UÙ«U ¬⁄U ¡’ ªÊ«∏UË •ãŒ⁄U ’Ê„U⁄U ¡Ê ⁄U„UË ÕË, ©U‚ flÄÔà ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ π«∏UÊ ÕÊ, ÿ„U ≈U¬ ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— fl„U „U◊Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ, ‚⁄U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ– ≈U¬ ◊¥ fl„U fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U „ÒU– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl ÃÙ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ •Êÿ Ÿ, ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ÒŸÊ •ı⁄U fl ¬„U‹ π«∏U „UÙ¥ª ÃÙ „U◊¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– „U◊¥ ∑Ò§‚ ¬ÃÊ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ∑§ıŸ •ÊÿÊ–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We saw you in the tape.

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Could be. fl„U ¬„U‹ ÕÊ, ÿ ÃÙ ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊Ò¥ •Êÿ „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ¡Ù ∞◊.¬ËÊ. ◊Ò⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ªÿ Õ, ©U‚ flÄÔà Ã∑§ fl •Ê¬∑§ ≈U¬ ◊¥ Õ? üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ¡Ë–

194 ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •ı⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ù ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ¬⁄U fl„UÊ¢ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: I know that. They also said that they did not meet anyone. But you were not with them? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I was standing outside.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: You were standing out. ¬⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‹ªÊÿÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, •ãŒ⁄U Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, ¬⁄U •ãŒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ Á◊‹Ê Ÿ„UË¥, ß‚Á‹∞ fl flʬ‚ •Ê ªÿ ÃÙ Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, when did you come into the picture and how? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I told you. As I have said, on the 14th evening after Shri Bardhan had made this speech, around six o’clock in the evening I told him we will investigate something. Let us find out what is true or false about these allegations. He had spent five or six days, I think on 19th Saturday, came back to me and said that he is not getting anything, everybody says we have heard of allegations and we cannot confirm anything. So, I said, “Okay, leave it.” On 21st, a source from the BJP told us that your Reporter has been tracking this story. We can provide him evidence. So, I said, “What kind of evidence?” He said that three of our MPs have been approached by the other side and that they have come to our party leadership. They are ready to turn in a sense “‘whistle blowers”. This is what the BJP leader claimed that they are ready to turn “whistle blowers”. If your Reporter accompanies them with a hidden camera, he will get a chance to record their conversation with the other side. Let me also say that we have been given a list of vulnerable MPs, in which these guys were there. Our information was that at least one of them had already planned to switch to the other side because his constituency was being delimited. Then the Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister had intervened, taken these MPs to the party leadership and therefore they had turned, we were told, that they had agreed to turn whistle blowers of sorts. I contacted our Reporter since he has been doing this story for five to six days. I said, “Why do you not accompany them?” At about 7 or 9 in the evening I got a call again saying ask your Reporter to come to Shri Argal’s house where we hope to provide you this evidence. So, that is where I came in, when I was contacted by the BJP source who said that he could provide us the evidence to back the story that he was doing. I told him, “You go, record and see what you get, do not intervene in any way. We will not get involved in any money transaction. Afterwards we will decide whether we want to air it”. I think this needs to be made clear. This is where there is difference of opinion. We cannot have press conference every day. Politicians are able to say what they want to. But the fact is that there is no agreement. Our Reporter was doing a journalistic job. We went there, covered whatever was possible till about 12:00 to 12:30 in the afternoon on the 22nd and then came back with the tapes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Members, on the other day, told us that after the operation was completed, then you made a detailed recordings of the currency notes, their numbers and interviewed the three MPs. Is that part of the tapes that you are giving us? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Yes. MD. SALIM: I must appreciate your very candid submission with a small comment. Just now you told, “Politicians hold press conference every day and they can tell whatever they want to say, but you cannot do that”. You can air 24x7. Once in a while politicians can hold press

195 conferences, but you can select which portion to air and which portion you cannot. That is the advantage you are having. This is in lighter vein. One thing is sting operation and another thing is investigative journalism. From what I could gather from your press statement earlier and from your submissions now, I would like to ask you whether it is a sting operation. It is because in sting operation, you send your agents, you mobilise money, you lure. There is temptation and then you do it. But here your journalist, from 14th July, after getting a clue that something is happening behind the scene, tried to find out or locate what is happening. Then you tried to record it. Of course, then you cross check. That is the journalistic ethics. In the course of your submission, you also said that it is “journalistic enterprise”. I must say that it is “enterprising journalism”. I appreciate it. I am not very conversant with this. In this Committee, we have investigated one sting operation or two, but those were different. Here some political source gave you some clue starting from Shri A.B. Bardhan to the BJP source, as you have yourself said, and then you recorded it. I want to know whether it is sting operation or investigative journalism? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Let me make two clarifications. Sting operation can be of various kinds. In some cases, it can involve a journalist taking a fake identity and taking money and trying to do it. That has been the nature of the sting operation so far in this country. As part of our procedure that we have put, we have said very clearly we will bribe no one. We will not have fake identity and bribe any one in the sting operation. That has been the nature of the sting operation in this country. •Ê¬ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ë •Êß«¥UÁ≈U≈UË ◊¥ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U, Á∑§‚Ë »§∑§ •Êß«¥UÁ≈U≈UË ◊¥ ¡Ê∑§⁄U ¬Ò‚Ê Œ∑§⁄U you want to do it. We made it very clear. Our Reporters have tried to put pressure on me to do it. I have said, “No”. Therefore, in this operation, it is not a conventional sting operation to the extent that we were not involved in faking our identity or entrapping any one. Our role was “Fly on the Wall”. We were recording evidence as part of our wider investigation. So, when you asked whether it is investigative journalism, I would say, “Yes, it is”, because we had not started our investigation with the 21st of July. Our investigation started on 14th of July. He has evidence. He had spent a lot of time with your party man, Shri Nilotpal Basu. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: 25 minutes with him. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We did ask them these questions. He went and met independent MPs. But we did not get anything. We have not in any way faked identity. We have not given money. We have not engaged in anything that you could accuse us tomorrow for which journalists are generally accused of as to why did you fake identity. So, we have not, in any way, faked identity and we have not given money. We have not engaged in anything that you could accuse us tomorrow of. Sir, very often, journalists are accused that ‘why did you fake identity’. •’ Ã∑§ Á¡ÃŸ ÷Ë ¡Ÿ¸Á‹ÁS≈U∑§ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ß‚ Œ‡Ê ◊¥ „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ◊¥ ¡Ÿ¸Á‹S≈U Ÿ •¬ŸË •Êß«¥UÁ≈U≈UË Á¿U¬Ê∑§⁄U Á∑§‚Ë •ı⁄U •Êß«¥UÁ≈U≈UË ◊¥ ∑§Ê◊ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ¬Ò‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ, ß‚ π‹ ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ Á’À∑ȧ‹ ∑§„UË¥ ∑§Ù߸ ßãflÊÀfl◊¥≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Sir, as you have seen the tapes, we were not present in any of the conversations and in any of the meetings. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We were not there. We recorded this and we hoped that this would be evidence that we could do as part of our wider story. When at 3.30 in the afternoon, the MPs

196 came and made these allegations in the Parliament, our investigation effectively came to an end because then we were in a difficult position. That is where the difference of opinion comes whether at that stage, you should air it or you should not air it. Our belief is we could not air it at that stage because we could not verify all that was there. MD. SALIM: Now, I come back to my question. So you recorded as the events were being unfolded with a specific information that was there. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Yes Sir. MD. SALIM: It is not the other way round also that some people invited you or asked for some specific kind of a job. You did it and then you refused. That is not the case. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: No Sir. MD. SALIM: You rightly pointed out on 22nd July what had happened in the Parliament. So it was aborted, your investigative journalism got aborted at that point of time. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Yes Sir. MD. SALIM: It is a different matter whether you continue in some other form or not. So in the IBN Channel on the same day in some discussion, you told one kilometre or one hour away that ‘I am ready to handover this to the hon. Speaker’ and subsequently the next day, you handed over. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Yes Sir. MD. SALIM: So it took 24 hours to submit it and after that it came to light from your side and then these cassettes were sent to the Parliament. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Yes Sir. MD. SALIM: What made another two cassettes to reach after three or four days? I am not putting any motive. There are certain loopholes in the story and we want to arrive at some conclusion. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: It is because we were contacted a few days later by saying that audio in one of the tapes is not clear. Therefore, ‘can you help us out’? We, as a safety, made fresh copies of the audio recording of both the meetings and submitted two tapes again. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: They were the same tapes and it is not as if we were submitting some fresh tapes. It was the same two tapes because we got a call. Somebody was telling that audio was not clear. So we said that we will submit both the audios, in case one is not right. Please take both the cassettes and we do not know which one is right and which one is wrong. MD. SALIM: Were sixth and seventh cassettes audio? There is one video and one audio. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: The subsequent was both audio. MD. SALIM: No, there is one video and one audio cassette. I am talking about cassette number six and seven. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: Sir, I do not know how you all have numbered the tapes. But the two tapes which I have brought subsequently were audio tapes. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: It is one video and one audio. Earlier five have come.

197 MD. SALIM: I just want to construct the story as it happened. It is not a criminal investigation. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: If it seems to be confusion over this audio of Sanjeev Saxena, we are happy to submit whatever audio tapes are available with us. We are happy to submit them again and there is no problem. MD. SALIM: Thirdly, what you did record was on a regular camera—whether outside 27, Lodhi Estate. Till now I have not identified Sanjeev Saxena. But, as alleged, Sanjeev Saxena left that place. You recorded and now today you are submitting this. Even against that, some allegations unnecessarily have been made. So you could have given the entire thing. It may be that only one part is there in your favour because you said that subsequently you can telecast those things because that is your right and that is not part of the convert operation. So you thought not to give it. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We have nothing to hide even in those tapes. I submit that may be we could have submitted those tapes also on the day one. But please see that they contain three interviews done of the three Members. All three of which held a subsequent Press Conference saying the same things. So there is nothing in those things which was only privy to me. The reason why I gave you what was only my information. Since they had gone in public with those allegations and there is a sequence of the money being counted, I think on a hindsight that could be a material evidence for you and, therefore, you could well argue that should have been given on day one. I concede that point. In the interviews of these three MPs, they have said the same things in different fora. It was not as if this was something exclusive. We gave the five tapes that were linked directly to the hidden cameras’ sting operation. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©UŸ ÃËŸ •ÊŒÁ◊ÿÙ¥ Ÿ ¡Ù S≈U≈U◊¥≈U ÁŒÿÊ, •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’Ê„U⁄U ÷Ë fl„UË S≈U≈U◊¥≈U ÁŒÿÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ ŒŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– Whether their statement was correct or not, that could be justified by your tape. So should not we have that tape also when you interviewed them at that time? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I concede that point and which is why they are giving it. We do not want to hide it. Our first thing was to give the tapes connected directly to the sting operation. Since you are saying that it is a material evidence to you and I concede, I think, more than their interviews of the shots of the money, we have already given the tapes. MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already handed over those tapes to the Committee. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We have handed it over today. MD. SALIM: It is fair enough. We are sitting across the table, but we are not working on a cross purposes. The motive of this Committee is to reach to the bottom of the truth. Till now we do not know the exact truth. In piecemeal some information is with you because your cassettes give us some information. You also told that you have to verify for telecasting. It is for us to preserve the ‘prestige’ of the Parliament and the system, and for you, it is, of course, both—credibility of your Channel also. So we are sitting across the table, but working not for the cross purpose. We are working for the same purpose to get to the bottom of the truth. In that case, Shri Sidharth, when they went first day in the late evening to Le Meridian Hotel, the meeting could not take place. The complainant told that they put some hidden camera so that it could be recorded, but nothing could be recorded. You are doing this investigation for one long week. It was mentioned that they are going to reach somewhere to finalise the talks about the amount. If I go through the tapes of what transpired in the tapes involving Shri Rewati Raman

198 Singh, the next morning you were insisting to go in the midnight. The next early morning when they got this and they went, where they are going I do not know. You must have told that they are going to 27 Lodhi Estate. You put your people also there. I found some other reporters also there—they were not part of this team—because that is a happening place. Even in front of ‘AKG Bhawan’ and in front of all these places, people were there on all those days. Now why this attempt was not made ensuring the truth by putting some camera or some recorder? SHRI SIDHARTH GAUTAM: These MPs said, ‘no, we do want to go inside with the hidden camera’. MD. SALIM: Secondly, you told that they are going to meet at 27 Lodhi Estate. It is not for me to tell all these things because on handsight we are here, otherwise it is a complete your story that these people are coming out of their place and reaching to certain place. So, try to find out that. Now, you are putting this story whether the MPs were there or not inside the room. You have not seen and the cameras have not recorded. Now we have to find out from ‘Sohail Hindustani’, if at all he is available. So, just as a journalist or as a reporter, to complete this story, you thought it is not necessary to go inside the 27 Lodhi Estate. No, you cannot enter the house. But from outside, •Ê¬ ÃÙ Áπ«∏U∑§Ë ‚ ¤ÊÊ¢∑§Ã „Ò¥U, „U◊ ‹Ùª ¡’ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ, ∞‚ „UË ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ •Ê¬ ŒπŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ’Ù‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Sir, first of all, the glasses of the car was tinted. First of all, we did not want to reveal our identity as well there in front of all the reporters what are we up to. Secondly, the glasses were tinted. So, we could not get the shots of the people who were sitting on the back seat. MD. SALIM: You say that this time is all right that on 22nd morning, the Maruti Zen entered and came out. ŒÍ‚⁄‘U Á¡ÃŸ ‚é‚ËÄÔfl¥≈U ≈U¬ ÁŸ∑§‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©UŸ◊¥ ≈UÊß◊ ∞¢«U ‡ÊÊ≈UÔ˜‚ ª«∏U’«∏U „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– After 15 or 20 minutes or so, the money or the suit cases were supposed to reach. ߟ‚Êß«U M§◊ •Ê¬Ÿ ’ª Á∑§ÿÊ, ‚’ •⁄‘¥U¡◊¥≈U Á∑§ÿÊ, ∑§ıŸ ‹ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, Á∑§‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ ‹∑§⁄U ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ∑§ıŸ ‹ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU? Somebody was coming to deliver the goods. That was also not recorded. As you told, there was nobody outside. üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ÿ„U ÃÙ „U◊Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÷Ë Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– As Shri Rajdeep has rightly said, the sole purpose was just to put the cameras in the room and see what was happening. I along with my team was sitting in the adjacent room. So, we do not know who entered the house, who came, which car came, who brought what, what bag was brought, who came inside and who went outside. We do not know anything. We were in the adjacent room and we could not see anything. It was impossible for us to flash the cameras there. MD. SALIM: That was what happened. But what I am saying is this. I am not a professional journalist. I am just a news reader. SHRI SIDARTHA GAUTAM: The reason why we could not do it was that if they took the cameras outside, took shots of whosoever was coming, first of all, the cops were outside. Other than that, there were a lot of people who were roaming around that area. So, we decided not to take out the camera and get into trouble. MD. SALIM: We examined our colleagues who are the complainants. Repeatedly, it came out that Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni’s name propped up. It is not that your team and the MPs were alone there. But, in between, Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni’s name propped up. Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was 199 telling: “You go there. You come here. You do this.” He is not a Member of Parliament but he is a known political activist or leader. To complete my side of it, I put this question. Is it that your team was engaged by someone to get some portions recorded? Or, was your team in contact with some people or sources to get your investigative reporting completed? Which one is true? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I think that is a very valid point. What happened, I think, was that after I got a call, I sent Shri Sidharth to Shri Argal’s house. What happened after that, I was not in touch with him. He was in touch with him. However, he later informed me about Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni. Frankly speaking, he is not a political reporter. He did not know even Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni. He did not know Shri Sudhindra kulkarni till a certain time. But that Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was certainly present there is a fact. That Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was assisting the Mps in a way is also a fact. Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was in the room. He (Shri Sidartha) was not in the room where the transaction was going on. He was in the adjoining room. But it is clear that Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was also in touch with the three Members of Parliament. We did not know that Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was in a sense involved in it. We had no idea of it because, as I said, once I let him off to Shri Argal’s house, what Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni’s role was something not known to us. But, yes, that Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was present in the house of Shri Argal is true. He was present. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: It was discovered later. I did not know him. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: That he was present is true. We cannot run away from that fact. I think, we have to be very clear about the fact that Shri Sudhindra Kulkarni was with these Members of Parliament. I do not think we can deny that. There can be no denial of that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Salim, have you completed it? MD. SALIM: Yes. Later on, I will put some supplementary as the discussion goes on. MR. CHAIRMAN: After all of us complete it, you can put it. üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— ◊⁄UË üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ‚ ∑§÷Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– It is just to clarify that. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸ ¡Ë, •Ê¬Ÿ ’„ÈUà „UË S¬cÔ≈U M§¬ ‚ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •¬ŸË ’Êà ’ÃÊ߸ „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∑ȧ‹Ëª ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ¬Í⁄UË Ã⁄U„U ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U πÙ¡Ë ¬òÊ∑§ÊÁ⁄UÃÊ ∑§Ê „UË, Á¡ÃŸË Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „ÒU, ©U‚ ©Ug‡ÿ ‚ „U◊Ÿ ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∞∑§ ¡Ê¢ø ≈UË◊ ’ŸÊ߸ •ı⁄U ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¬ ¿U— ÁŒŸ ¬„U‹ ‚ ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ– vy ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ’ÿÊŸ •ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ¿U— ’¡ ‡ÊÊ◊ ‚ ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ– „U◊ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¡’ πÙ¡Ë ¬òÊ∑§ÊÁ⁄UÃÊ ÕË, ¡Ò‚ •Ê¬ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿ ÷Ë •Ê¬‚ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË øÊ„UË „ÒU, ∑§Ù∆UË Ÿê’⁄U y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U, ¡Ù üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ê ÉÊ⁄U „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ë ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë Á⁄U¬ÙÁ≈ZUª ß‚◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸ „ÒU, ∑§◊⁄‘U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U ∑§Ë „UË ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸ „ÒU– ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ •¬Ÿ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U‚¸ ∑§Ù ∞‚Ë ∑§Ù߸ ªÊß«U‹Êߟ ŒË ÕË Á∑§ ∑§fl‹ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡Ù ∞ÄÔ≈UËÁfl≈UË¡ „UÙ, fl„UË •Ê¬∑§Ù ‹ŸË „ÒU, ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ∞ÁÄÔ≈UÁfl≈UË „UÙ, „U◊¥ ©U‚∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¡Ù ‹Ùª fl„UÊ¢ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ÄÿÊ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ÁŸŒ‡Ê ÿÊ ªÊß«U‹Êߟ ÕË? ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ ◊ʪ¸-ÁŸŒ¸‡Ê ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— Á’À∑ȧ‹ Ÿ„UË¥, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ßÃŸÊ „UË ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬ ¡Ê∞¢ª, •Ê¬ ŒÁπ∞ Á∑§ ÄÿÊ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– „U◊¥ ÿ„U ÷Ë ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∞∑§ ‚ËÄÔflÒ¥‚ ∑§„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ø‹ªÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ßÃŸÊ „UË ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ¬˝ÙflÊß«U ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ⁄UÁ„Uÿ •ı⁄U ŒÁπ∞ Á∑§ ÿ ÄÿÊ ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ¬˝ÙflÊß«U ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? ©U‚◊¥ ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ÄÿÊ „ÒU, •¢Œ⁄U ÄÿÊ „ÒU? ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’Êà ∞‚Ë „ÒU Á∑§ he could not reveal his identity as a journalist Á∑§ •ª⁄U fl„U •¬ŸÊ ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‹∑§⁄U ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§⁄UÃÊ, ÃÙ he would not have been allowed entry into the house. ©U‚ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ ©U‚Ÿ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ë »È§≈U¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹Ë „U٪˖

200 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¡∑§‹ ßÃŸË ≈UÄÔŸË∑§‹ ∞«UflÊ¢‚◊Ò¥≈U „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ’Ê„U⁄U ÷Ë Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã Õ, •ÊflÊ‚ flÊ‹ ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ªÊ– •Ê¬Ÿ ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ ◊Êߢ«U ∞å‹Ê߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ê ÷Ë √ÿÍ ‹¥ ÃÊÁ∑§ ‚Ê⁄UË ÁSÕÁà ∑§ŸÒÁÄÔ≈¢Uª „UÙ ¡Êÿ– πÙ¡Ë ¬òÊ∑§ÊÁ⁄UÃÊ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ©U‚◊¥ Ÿ „UË ◊ȤÊ üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ∞‚Ë ß¢S≈˛UÄÔ‡Êã‚ ÕË¥ Á∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ê √ÿÍ ‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„∞– ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’Êà ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¡ ‚ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë „U◊ ‹Ùª ¡’ ÷Ë Á∑§‚Ë ßãflS≈U˪‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÁŸ∑§‹ „Ò¥U, ÿ„U ◊⁄UÊ ∑§Ù߸ ¬„U‹Ê ßãflS≈U˪‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, „U◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ »§ËÀ«U ◊¥ ¡Ê∑§⁄U øË¡ ∑Ò§‚-∑Ò§‚ •Ÿ»§ÙÀ«U „U٪˖ Á∑§‚Ë ÷Ë ¿UÙ≈UË ‚Ë Á◊S≈U∑§ ∑§Ë fl¡„U ‚ I cannot put my team members to risk. Á¡ÃŸ ÷Ë ≈U˪ ◊Òê’‚¸ Õ, Á∑§‚Ë ¿UÙ≈UË ‚Ë ª‹ÃË ‚ „U◊ ‹Ùª ‚’ Á⁄UflË‹ „UÙ¥ •ı⁄U ◊È‚Ë’Ã ◊¥ •Êÿ¥, „U◊ ‹Ùª ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ øÊ¢‚ Ÿ „UË ∑§÷Ë ‹Ã „Ò¥U •ı⁄U Ÿ „UË ß‚ ’Ê⁄U Á‹ÿÊ ÕÊ– wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ „UÙ ÿÊ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ „UÙ, „U◊ ’«∏U ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ‚ Á∑§‚Ë ÷Ë ‚Í⁄Uà ◊¥ ’Ê„U⁄U ÁŸ∑§Ê‹∑§⁄U ‡ÊÍ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã Õ •ı⁄U Á„U«UŸ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ‚ ß‚ Ã⁄UË∑§ ‚ ’Ê„U⁄U •Ê∑§⁄U ‡ÊÍ≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ÷Ë ¬ÊÚÁ‚’‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– That is the only reason Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ‹Ê∑§⁄U ‡ÊÍÁ≈¢Uª flªÒ⁄U„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– „U◊¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ‡ÊÍÁ≈¢Uª •Ùfl⁄Uª˝Ê©¢U«U „U◊ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ÷Ë ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ¡’ ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U „U◊ Á«U‚Êß«U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ßãflS≈U˪‡ÊŸ πàÔ◊ ∑§„UÊ¢ „U٪˖ ¬„U‹Ê „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ∑§Ê◊ ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ ¡Ù „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ¬„U‹ fl„U „UÙ– flÒ‚ ÷Ë ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∞◊¬Ë Ÿ ÷Ë ◊ŸÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ‚ Ÿ „UÙ– „U◊Ÿ ÷Ë ¡ÊŸ’ͤÊ∑§⁄U ©U‚ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– That is the only reason.

SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: I also want to clarify one thing. We have once fixed the hidden camera in the room it is not possible to dismantle it, take it outside, shoot someone coming and again fix it. That is not physically possible.

üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— xz Á◊Ÿ≈U, yÆ Á◊Ÿ≈U ‚ ÖÿÊŒÊ fl„U ‚Ë«UË ø‹ªË Ÿ„UË¥– ©U‚ Á»§⁄U ŒÙ’Ê⁄UÊ ø¥¡ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– There is a limit to it. It is a red tape, basically.

üÊË ⁄UÙÁ„Uà πãÔŸÊ— ¡Ò‚ ∑Ò§¬Á‚≈UË ∑§Ë Á‹Á◊≈U „ÒU, physically also, it is not possible. I think what happened was this. A little bit in hind sight, it has emerged Á∑§ ¡Ù Á¡åÔ‚Ë ∑§Ê⁄U „ÒU ÿÊ whatever it was, it had acquired some significance. That thing is coming in the hind sight. At that point, we were feeling what was happening in the room. It was important for us to get that activity in a professional way. üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà ‚„UË „ÒU Á∑§ •ª⁄U „U◊ Á¡åÔ‚Ë flªÒ⁄U„U, ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ê √ÿÍ ‹Ã, ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄UË S≈UÙ⁄UË •ı⁄U ◊¡’Íà „UÙ ¡ÊÃË– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •ª⁄U „U◊ ‚ø ’ÃÊÿ¥ ÃÙ ©U‚ Á‚øÈ∞‡ÊŸ ◊¥ „U◊¥ ÿ„U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÄÿÊ S≈UÙ⁄UË „ÒU •ı⁄U Á∑§ÃŸË ’«∏UË „U٪˖ üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ‚Êˇÿ ∑§ ÃâÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU, ª„U⁄UÊ߸ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë ÄÿÍ⁄‘UÁ‚≈UË ‚◊¤Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà Á’À∑ȧ‹ ‚„UË „ÒU– „U◊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¡Ÿ¸Á‹ÁS≈U∑§‹Ë ÷Ë •ª⁄U ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§Ê ŒÃ, ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄UË S≈UÙ⁄UË ◊¥ ÖÿÊŒÊ fl≈U •Ê ¡ÊÃÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ „U◊ ∞‚Ë ÁSÕÁà ◊¥ Õ Á∑§ „U◊¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ©U‚◊¥ ∞∑§ „UË Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U⁄U ∞‚Êߟ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ’Ê∑§Ë Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U‚¸ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ ≈˛US≈U flÙ≈U ∑§fl⁄U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ– ∞‚Ê ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ©U‚ ßÃŸÊ ◊„Uàfl ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ ’«∏UË, „U◊Ÿ ©U‚ ßÃŸÊ „UË ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ S≈UÙ⁄UË ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ¡Ê∑§⁄U ŒÁπÿ Á∑§ ÄÿÊ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU? ©U‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ „UÙªÊ, ∑Ò§‚ „UÙªÊ, Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ •Ÿ»§ÙÀ«U „UÙªÊ, ◊È‚Ë’Ã ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ‹Ùª øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ wy ÉÊ¢≈U ◊¥ ¡Ù „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, fl„UË ÁŒπÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– flÒ‚ ÿ„U ¡Ù S≈UÙ⁄UË „ÒU, ß‚∑§ Á‹∞ vÆ-vz ÁŒŸ ‹ªÃ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¡∑§‹ ’˝ÒÁ∑¢§ª ãÿÍ¡ ∑§Ê ¡◊ÊŸÊ •Ê ªÿÊ „ÒU–

201 üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— •ª⁄U ÿ„U ’Ê„U⁄U ⁄U„UÃÊ •ı⁄U Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄UÃÊ, ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄UË ÖÿÊŒÊ ◊¡’Íà S≈UÙ⁄UË „UÙÃË, •Ê¬∑§Ë ÿ„U ’Êà ‚„UË „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ¡Ë, πÊ‚∑§⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ πÈŒ „UË ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ „U◊¥ ’Ë¡¬Ë ∑§ ∞∑§ dÙà ‚ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Á◊‹Ë „ÒU Ã’ „U◊Ÿ ß‚ Ã⁄U»§ äÔÿÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ– ¬„U‹ „U◊ •¬ŸË ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ πÙ¡Ë ¬òÊ∑§ÊÁ⁄UÃÊ ◊¥ ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ– fl„U ‚ÍòÊ ÄÿÊ ÕÊ? ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚ •Ê¬Ÿ ’„ÈUà ª¢÷Ë⁄UÃÊ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ Á‹ÿÊ– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ ‹Ùª •¬ŸÊ ‚Ù‚¸ Á«U‚Ä‹Ù¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U •Ê¬∑§Ê •Áœ∑§Ê⁄U „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„ U⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§◊≈UË ’„ÈUà ‚Áã‚Á≈Ufl ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ù Œπ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÿ„U ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ∑§Ë ’„ÈUà „UË S¬‡Ê‹ ߢÄÔflÊÿ⁄UË ∑§◊≈UË „ÒU •ı⁄U ÃâÿÙ¥ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸÊ ß‚∑§Ê ©Ug‡ÿ „ÒU ÃÊÁ∑§ ŒÍœ ∑§Ê ŒÍœ •ı⁄U ¬ÊŸË ∑§Ê ¬ÊŸË ÁŸ∑§‹ ‚∑§– ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ∑§Ù•Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ „UÙ, •Ê¬ ∑§Ù•Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄U „UË ⁄U„ „Ò¥U, ÿ„UÊ¢ •Êÿ „Ò¥U, •¬Ëÿ⁄U „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ê fl‹∑§◊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„ „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— ‚Ù‚¸ Á⁄UflË‹ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ◊ÈÁ‡Ô∑§‹ „U٪ʖ ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U ’Êà ÷Ë S¬cÔ≈U ∑§⁄U ŒÍ¢, „U◊ øÊ„UÃ Õ Á∑§ •ª⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ŒÍ‚⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ÷Ë •ÊÃÊ •ı⁄U „U◊¥ ∑§„UÃÊ, „U◊ ©U‚ ÷Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ ß‚∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬˝Ò‡Ê⁄UÊß¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ßÃŸË ’Êà ¡M§⁄U „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ¿ÍU≈U ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: So, you do not want to reveal the source. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Yes. I do not want to reveal the source. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ¡Ë, ◊Ò¥Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝Ò‡Ê⁄UÊß¡ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— „U◊Ÿ ‚Ê»§ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ’Ë¡¬Ë ‚ „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ ’Ë¡¬Ë ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ê ¡Ù •Áœ∑§Ê⁄U „ÒU, ©U‚ •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ Ã∑§ ⁄Uπ¥– ©U‚◊¥ ◊⁄UÊ ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝‡ÔŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ßÃŸÊ „UË ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, øÍ¢Á∑§ •÷Ë ∞∑§ ‚flÊ‹ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ©U∆UÊÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ÉÊÈ‚– „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑ȧ¿U ∞‚Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Á◊‹Ë „ÒU– ß‚ √ÿÁÄÔà ∑§Ê ÷Ë ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „UÙ ªÿÊ „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ߟ∑§ Áfl·ÿ ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– •’ •Ê¬‚ „U◊ πÈ‹∑§⁄U ∑§„¥U Á∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿ •Ê¬‚ «UÊÿ⁄‘UÄÔ≈U ‚ê¬∑¸§ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ß‚ËÁ‹∞ •Ê¬ ÷Ë ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∞∑§ dÙà ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— ◊Ò¥ ‚Ê»§ ∑§„UÃÊ „Í¢U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ’Ë¡¬Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ ‚, ∞∑§ ‚ÍòÊ ‚ „U◊¥ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Á◊‹Ë– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— ¡Ò‚ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ‚ ◊⁄UË ∑§÷Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ◊ȤÊ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¢ ÕÊ Á∑§ üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ fl„UÊ¢ „Ò¥U– ¡’ ÿ •ÊÚÁ»§‚ ◊¥ ≈Uå‚ flÊÁ¬‚ ‹Êÿ •ı⁄U „U◊Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ŒπÊ, ÃÙ ∞∑§ ‡ÊÊÚ≈U ◊¥ „U◊Ÿ üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ∑§Ù ŒπÊ– Ã’ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ߟ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ÿ„UÊ¢ ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U? Ã’ üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ Õ ¡’ ÿ ‚’ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿ „◊¥ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ’ÃÊÿÊ, fl„U ◊ȤÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚Ë ‚ ∞∑§ ‚flÊ‹ ©U∆U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, „U◊ fl„U ‚ÍòÊ ÷Ë ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ– •Ê¬ „U⁄U ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ Œ’Êfl Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– øÍ¢Á∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ Ÿ ¡Ù ‚ÍòÊ ’ÃÊÿÊ, „U◊ ©U‚ ‚ÍòÊ ∑§Ê ‚àÿʬŸ, ‚◊¬ÈÁcÔ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ¬Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– „U◊¥ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡Ù ß㻧Ù◊¸‡ÊŸ ’ÃÊÿË ªÿË „ÒU, ©U‚ ‚àÿʬŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ŒÎÁcÔ≈U ‚ „U◊Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ–

202 üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— ŸÙ ¬˝ıé‹◊– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÃË‚⁄UÊ ‚flÊ‹ „U◊ ∑§fl‹ ÿ„U ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬Ÿ ∆UË∑§ ’ÃÊÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ w|, ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ◊¥, •Ê¬ ∞◊¬Ë ∑§ã»§◊¸ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ∞◊¬Ë ÁŒπ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Ê ⁄U„U Õ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ê é‹Ò∑§ ‡ÊˇÊÊ ∞‚Ê ÕÊ Á¡‚◊¥ ≈˛UÊ¢‚¬⁄‘¥U‚Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË ¡Ò‚Ê Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ ¡Ë Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU– ‡ÊˇÊÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ë ÷Ë ©Uà‚È∑§ÃÊ ’…∏UË „UÙªË Á∑§ •∑§‹ «˛UÊßfl⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ∑§Ù߸ •ı⁄U „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥– •Ê¬Ÿ ©U‚ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ÷Ë ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU– fl„U S¬cÔ≈U ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚Ÿ •ÊÃ ‚◊ÿ ◊È¢„U ¬⁄U M§◊Ê‹ ⁄UπÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ë ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ¡Ù ŒπÊ „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§ »È§≈U¡ ‚ „UË ŒπÊ „ÒU– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ¡Ò‚ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ÁŸ∑§‹ ªÿ Õ– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ¬„U‹ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ªÊ«∏UË •Ê ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ •Êª ¡Ù ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, fl ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ’„ÈUà •ë¿UË Ã⁄U„U ‚ ÁflÁ¡’‹ „Ò¥U– ¬Ë¿U ∑§ıŸ ’Ò∆UÊ „ÒU, fl„U ∑§„UÊ¢ „ÒU, „U◊¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ÿ„U ∞∑§ ‚ëÔøÊ߸ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ©U‚ S¬∑ȧ‹≈U Ÿ„Ë¢U ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù „ÒU, fl„U ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UË „ÒU– ¡’ üÊË ‚È„U‹ w| Ÿê’⁄U ◊¥ Œ⁄UflÊ¡ ‚ •¢Œ⁄U ÉÊÈ‚ ⁄U„U Õ, ÃÙ •ı⁄U ÷Ë Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U „UÙ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ÿ fl„UË „ÒU¢ ¡Ù fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U Õ– ◊Ò¥ ©U‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ’ÃÊ ¬Ê ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U ¡Ù ŒπÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù ‡ÊÍ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, fl„UË „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ ¡Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ, fl„U Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— „U◊ ß‚ ¬⁄U ߟ»§⁄‘¥U‚ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl„UË ªÊ«∏UË ÕË ¡Ù fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹Ë „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— Ÿ„UË¥, ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ’Œ‹Ê ªÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ¡Ù ªÊ«∏UË •Ê¬Ÿ ÁŒπÊ߸ „ÒU, fl„U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ¬„U‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË, ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ∑§⁄ÒUÄÔ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ß‚ËÁ‹∞ ∑§ß¸ ‚¢Œ„U ß‚◊¥ ÷Ë ©Uà¬ãÔŸ „UÙ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÷Ë ÿ„U ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ– ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∆UË∑§ ∑§„UÊ– •Ê¬∑§Ê ∞¡ê¬‡ÊŸ ÿ„U „UÙªÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ∞◊¬Ë¡ „UÙ¥ª Ã÷Ë ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ‡ÊÍ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— Á’À∑ȧ‹, „U◊ ∞¡ê¬‡ÊŸ ¬⁄U ªÿ „Ò¥U–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Why would you show a car coming in and going out? Some assumption should have been there. ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ‚’ ‹Ùª ’„ÈUà „UË ¬˝ÁÃÁcÔ∆Uà øÒŸ‹ ‚ ‚¢’¢ÁœÃ „Ò¥U– ÿ„UÊ¢ ¡Ù ≈Uå‚ ŒË ªÿË „Ò¥U, ©Uã„¥U „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ŒπÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ ÷Ë „ÒU Á∑§ Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ‡ÊÍ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ, fl„U ÖÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê àÿÙ¥, Á’ŸÊ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ê¢≈U- ¿UÊ¢≈U ∑§ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ©U‚Ë ∑§Ù ∑§Ù⁄UÙ’Ù⁄‘U≈U ∑§⁄UÃ „ÈU∞ •Ê¬Ÿ •ı⁄U Á‚hÊÕ¸ ¡Ë Ÿ ‚Ê⁄UË ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§„UË¥– ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ÖÿÊŒÊ ∑§Ù߸ ‚flÊ‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ– ¬òÊ∑§ÊÁ⁄UÃÊ ∑§Ë ŸÊꂸ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ÷Ë ‚ÍòÊ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ¬Í¿UŸ ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ •ıÁøàÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ı⁄U Ÿ „UË Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ∑§ê¬‹ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– Á»§⁄U ÷Ë ◊⁄‘U ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ∞∑§ Á¡ôÊÊ‚Ê ÕË Á∑§ üÊË •ª¸‹ •ı⁄U •ãÿ ∞◊¬Ë¡ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§ øÒŸ‹ ∑§Ù ∑§Ê¢≈UÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë •ãÿ √ÿÁÄÔà Ÿ ∑§Ê¢≈UÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‚Ê»§ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§÷Ë ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ üÊË •ª¸‹ Ÿ „U◊¥ ∑§Ê¢≈UÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË •ª¸‹ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ „UË „U◊ ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U ‚ÈŸ ⁄U„U Õ, ¡’ •ÙŸ⁄‘U’‹ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑§Ë Á‹S≈U „U◊¥ ŒË ªÿË– Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∞‚ ∞◊¬Ë¡ „Ò¥U ¡Ù ÁSflø •Ùfl⁄U ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ „U◊Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ‚ÈŸÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– üÊË •ª¸‹ Ÿ „◊¥U ∑§Ê¢≈UÄ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– „U◊Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ Ÿ „U◊¥ ∑§Ê¢≈UÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ– „U◊ ‚Êà ÁŒŸ ‚ ∑§ß¸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U Õ– ¡Ò‚ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •ª⁄U „U◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ∞◊¬Ë ß‚ «UÊÿ⁄‘UÄԇʟ ◊¥ ‹ ¡ÊÃÊ, ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ∑ȧ¿ U‹Ùª ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÿ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë ¬òÊ∑§ÊÁ⁄UÃÊ „ÒU– ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∞‚Ë S≈UÙ⁄UË, ¬Ê¢ø ÁŒŸ ‚ ∑§ãfl¥‡ÊŸ‹ ◊ÒÕ«U ‚ ≈˛UÊ߸.....

203 ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ◊⁄UÊ Á∑§‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ∞‚¬‡Ê¸Ÿ ∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¡Ù ’Êà „ÒU, •Ê¬Ÿ fl„UË ßß S¬cÔ≈U Ã⁄UË∑§ ‚ ’ÃÊÿË, „U≈U∑§⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øË¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿË– „U◊ ¡’⁄UŒSÃË Á∑§‚Ë •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ù Á∑§‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊ ‚∑§Ã, Á∑§‚Ë •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ù ªÊ«∏UË ‚ πÊ‹Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÊ ‚∑§Ã– ◊‡ÊËŸ ¡Ù ‡ÊÍ≈U ∑§⁄‘UªË, ¡Ù „UÙªÊ, ©U‚ ÁŒπÊÿªË– ß‚Á‹∞ ◊ȤÊ ∑§Ù߸ ÖÿÊŒÊ ‚flÊ‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UŸ Õ– ∑§fl‹ ∞∑§ ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿UŸÊ ÕÊ •ı⁄U ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù œãÿflÊŒ ŒÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄UË ß‚ ∑§◊≈UË ◊¥ •¬ŸË ¬Í⁄UË ≈UË◊ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Êÿ– •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊¥ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ •ı⁄U ßãflS≈U˪Á≈Ufl ¡Ÿ¸Á‹ÖÔ◊ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§ß¸ øË¡¥ ’ÃÊÿË¥– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸ ¡Ë, •Ê¬∑§Ë ≈UË◊ ∑§ ‚Ê⁄‘U ◊Òê’⁄UÊŸ ∑§Ù ‚’‚ ¬„U‹ ◊Ò¥ œãÿflÊŒ ŒŸÊ øÊ„Í¢UªÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ©U¬ÁSÕà „ÈU∞– ÿ„U ’„ÈUà ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ ∑§◊≈UË „ÒU ¡Ù ¡Ê¢ø ∑§ •ÊÁπ⁄UË Á’ãŒÈ Ã∑§ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃË „ÒU– ÿ„U ◊Ò≈U⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ©U∆UÊ •ı⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ ß‚∑§Ê •¢Ã „ÈU•Ê– •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ Á’ŸÊ ¬˝‡ÔŸ ¬Í¿U ’„ÈUà ∑ȧ¿U ∑§Ê»§Ë ÁflSÃÊ⁄U ‚ ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§ Áflfl⁄UáÊ ∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U ∑§„UË¥ ∑§Ù߸ ’ŸÊfl≈UË ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ª ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U •Ê¬ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– Á»§⁄U ÷Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ◊Òê’⁄UÊŸ Ÿ Ã◊Ê◊ ¬˝‡ÔŸ Á∑§ÿ „Ò¥U ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ÷Ë ŒπË, •ÊÁ«UÿÙ ≈U¬ ÷Ë ‚ÈŸ– ß‚ ∑§◊≈UË ◊¥ ©UŸ ◊Òê’⁄UÊŸ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ ¡Ù ß‚◊¥ ßãflÊÀfl Õ– Ã◊Ê◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ’ÿÊŸÊà ‹Ÿ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ ∑ȧ¿U ¬˝‡ÔŸ ÁŸ∑§‹ ∑§⁄U •ÊÃ „Ò¥U– Ã◊Ê◊ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ◊Òê’‚¸ Ÿ ¬˝‡ÔŸ ÷Ë ¬Í¿U „Ò¥U– •Ê¬Ÿ •÷Ë ∞∑§ ’Êà ∑§„UË Á∑§ vy ¡È‹Ê߸ ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∞¬Ë‚Ù«U ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬Ÿ ≈UË◊ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¬˝ÿÊ‚ Á∑§ÿÊ– ¡’ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ S≈U≈U◊Ò¥≈U Á◊‹Ê, •Ê¬Ÿ ‚ÙøÊ Á∑§ ∑ȧ¿U „UÙ ⁄„UÊ „ÒU, ∑ȧ¿U ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ¬Ífl¸ ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§ß¸ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ÷Ë ÁŒπÊ∞ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ vy ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚ ¡’ •Ê¬Ÿ å‹ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, ÃÙ ¡Ù ∞¬Ë‚Ù«U •Ê¬ ÁŒπÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ ÷Ë ∑§„UË¥ ∑§Ù߸ ß‚ ≈UÊ߬ ∑§Ê ¬˝ÿÊ‚ Á∑§ÿÊ •ı⁄U ∑§„UË¥ ∑ȧ¿U •Ê¬∑§Ù ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ∞‚Ê „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU? ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ¡⁄U •ÊÿÊ? ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ øÊ„UÃÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ©U‚ Á«U‚Ä‹Ù¡ ∑§⁄‘¥U– •Ê¬ ß‚∑§Ê „UÊ¢ ÿÊ ŸÊ ◊¥ ¡flÊ’ Œ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ¡Ò‚ ‚⁄U Ÿ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ∑§Ê»§Ë ‹ÙªÙ¢ ‚ Á◊‹ „Ò¥U, ߢ«Uˬ¢«¥U≈U ∞◊¬Ë¡ ‚ Á◊‹ „Ò¥U, ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ‹Ë«U‚¸ (‹çÔ≈U) ‚ Á◊‹ „Ò¥U– ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ „U◊¥ ∑§fl‹ ß㻧Ù◊¸‡ÊŸ ŒË– ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë „U◊¥ Á∑§‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ê Ãâÿ ¬˝ÙflÊß«U ∑§⁄UÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ¡’ ◊ȤÊ øÊ¢⁄U-¬Ê¢ø ÁŒŸ „UÙ ªÿ, ◊Ò¥Ÿ •Ê∑§⁄U fl„UË »§Ë«U’Ò∑§ •¬Ÿ ’ÊÚ‚ ∑§Ù ÁŒÿÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ’Ù‹Ê Á∑§ ’ÊÚ‚, ∞‚-∞‚ „Ò¥U, nobody was ready to come before the camera and give us some concrete data Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÿ ‹Ù, ÿ Á≈U¬•ÊÚ»§ „ÒU, ∞‚ ¡Ê•Ù, flÒ‚ ∑§⁄UÙ– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÿ„U ‚’ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU ¡Ù •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ⁄‘UªÈ‹⁄U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U‚¸ ⁄UÙ¡ S≈UÙ⁄UË ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ¡Ù •Ê⁄UÙ¬ ’Ë¡¬Ë ‹ªÊ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚ ‹ªÊ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, fl„U vy ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚ ⁄UÙ¡, ¡’ ‚ üÊË flœ¸Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ë S≈U≈U◊Ò¥≈U •Ê߸, •ª‹ ÁŒŸ „◊Ÿ S≈ÍUÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ Á«U’≈U ∑§Ë– fl„U ‚’ ÃËŸ- øÊ⁄U ÁŒŸ ø‹ÃÊ ⁄U„UÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ Á‚hÊÕ¸, •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑ȧ¿U ÖÿÊŒÊ Á◊‹ Ã÷Ë „U◊ ø‹Êÿ¥ª– ¡’ Ã∑§ „U◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹ Ã’ Ã∑§ ∑§Ù߸ ∞∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ¬⁄U •Ê⁄UÙ¬ ‹ªÊ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚‚ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ’ŸÃË, S≈ÍUÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ ‹Ùª ∞∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ¬⁄U •Ê⁄UÙ¬ ‹ªÊÃ ⁄U„¥Uª– „U◊ ∞‚Ë S≈UÙ⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹Êÿ¥ª ¡’ Ã∑§ „U◊¥ ¬Í⁄‘U Ãâÿ Ÿ Á◊‹¥– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ∑§fl‹ flÊÃʸ‹Ê¬ „ÈU߸ „ÒU, „U◊Ÿ ©U‚ Œı⁄UÊŸ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ©U‚ ÁŒŸ ¡’ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ŒSÿªáÊ ÿ„UÊ¢ ©U¬ÁSÕà Õ Ã’ ÿ ‚Ê⁄UË ‚Ë«UË¡ ÁŒπÊÿË ªÿË ÕË¥– ‚Ë«UË ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê •Ê⁄UÙ¬ ÕÊ Á∑§ ¡’ ‚Ê⁄UÊ ∞≈U◊Ù‚Á»§ÿ⁄U πàÔ◊ „UÙ ªÿÊ, L§¬ÿÊ Œ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U Ÿ ©UŸ∑§ ŸÙ≈U ∑§Ê ™§¬⁄U ∑§Ê Á„USÔ‚Ê, ª«˜UÔ«UË ∑§ ™§¬⁄U •ı⁄U ŸËø ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ÷Ë ©U‚◊¥ Á‹ÿÊ ÕÊ– fl ‹Ùª ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ©U‚◊¥ fl„U øË¡ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— fl„U ≈U¬ „U◊Ÿ •Ê¡ Œ ŒË „ÒU– •÷Ë ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ù Œπ ÷Ë ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— fl„U flÒ⁄UËÁ»§∑§‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Would you like to see the tapes?

204 ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬„U‹ fl„U ≈U¬ ÷Ë „U◊¥ ŒπŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ Á¡‚ ¬⁄U ©U‚ ÁŒŸ L§∑§ ª∞ Õ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let him finish first. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ù ◊ÊM§Áà ¡Ÿ ∑§Ê⁄U w|, ‹ÙŒË ⁄UÙ«U ◊¥ •¢Œ⁄U ªÿË ÕË, ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ’ÃÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl„U ‹ª÷ª Á∑§ÃŸË Œ⁄U ’ÊŒ ’Ê„U⁄U •Ê߸ ÕË? üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— fl„U ‹ª÷ª wÆ-wz Á◊Ÿ≈U •¢Œ⁄U ⁄U„UË–

SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: Mr. Sardesai has said in his statement that only after CPI Leader Mr. A.B. Bardhan’s Press Meeting, in which he said that these things are going on, he thought of going in for a sting operation. There were certain other news in the media and a Minister’s name was taken and it was also in the media that the money has come from Madhya Pradesh and that the Minister carried the money. Does it not prompt you to enquire into it and get the full information? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We are not a police investigation team. SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: You said that the Press statement of Mr. A.B. Bardhan prompted you to start this investigation. I would like to know whether you are not bound to go through that and verify it. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I would request you to see these tapes. SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: I have this newspaper, Deccan Chronicle with me. On page 5, it talks about SP-Congress making allegation and the other one talks about BJP making allegation. You could have verified it. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We were carrying out our own investigation. If you see the tapes, the money is there. You can corroborate it with that. We have no access to Parliament. How do I know which money has been put on the Table of the Parliament. The money is with the Parliament, now it is for the Parliament or any investigating body to see that. I have no access to the money which was given. But it is for the Parliament now to see that. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: We do not know even the mechanism. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ¬Í⁄UÊ ∞Á¬‚Ù«U „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÄÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë √ÿÁÄÔà Ÿ •Ê¬ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ Œ’Êfl ’ŸÊŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë? üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— ß‚ ¬Í⁄‘U ¬˝∑§⁄UáÊ ◊¥ ◊ȤÊ ‚’‚ π⁄UÊ’ fl„U ’Êà ‹ªË Á¡‚◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ¬˝‚ S≈U≈◊¥≈UU ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ– You can accuse us of errors of judgement. „U◊ ¬òÊ∑§Ê⁄U „Ò¥U, „U◊ ∑ȧ¿U øË¡¥ ª‹Ã ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ∑ȧ¿U øË¡¥ ‚„UË ÷Ë ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ÿ„U ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÿ„U ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ÄÿÊ ¬Í⁄UË Ã⁄U„U ‚ ‚„UË „ÒU, flÊÁ¡’ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥– Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ „U◊ ¬⁄U Á∑§‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ê Œ’Êfl Ÿ„UË¥ «UÊ‹Ê, „U◊Ÿ ÿ„U Á«U‚Ë¡Ÿ Á‹ÿÊ– To be honest with you. „U◊ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ Áfl‡ÔflÊ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃÊ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÿ„U ’Êà ∑§„UË „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê ∑§fl‹ ßÃŸÊ •Õ¸ „ÒU Á∑§ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U‚¸ ¬⁄U Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ Œ’Êfl «UÊ‹Ê „ÒU? ¡’ „U◊Ÿ ¬„U‹ •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ŒÈÿÙ¸œŸ flÊ‹Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê ŒπÊ ÕÊ, ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê∞ „ÈU∞ ∞∑§ Áfl≈UŸ‚ Ÿ S¬Á‚Á»§∑§‹Ë ◊¥‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ¡’ ©U‚Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄U Á‹ÿÊ, then I sold it to someone and got about Rs. 75 lakh. He said it on record. That is the part of the proceedings of the Committee.

205 SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Here, we have no money involved. The only thing is that our cameramen were worried about their safety. In fact, one of the wives of the cameramen was worried. Uß‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ „U◊¥ ß‚‚ ∑§Ù߸ ‹ŸÊ-ŒŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ß‚ ∑§fl‹ Á⁄U∑§ÊÚ«¸U ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬Í¿UÊ „ÒU–

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: The BJP in its Press Conferences has made allegations about our motives. I have high regards for BJP leaders, but they should not have said it. U ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡’ ÿ„U ߢflS≈U˪‡ÊŸ „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË, wv •ı⁄U ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù, ©U‚ flÄÔà ∑§ Á‹∞ ÃÙ Ä‹Êß◊Ä‚ ÿ„UË ÕÊ Á∑§ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë •Ê∞, ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, fl„U øË¡¥ ÃÙ Á⁄U∑§ÊÚ«¸U ◊¢ „Ò¥U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ø‹Ù •÷Ë ø‹Ã „Ò¥U, Á»§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞, •ª‹ ÁŒŸ ‚È’„U ª∞– •Ê¬∑§ Á‹∞ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ‚ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‚È’„U Ã∑§ ÿ„UË Ä‹Êß◊Ä‚ ÕÊ– After the money is delivered, it is all over. ©U‚ flÄÔà ¡Ù •Ê¬ ∞∑§ „UçÔÃ ‚ …ÍU…∏U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ∑§„UË¥ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ãÿÍ¡ Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ’Êà „UflÊ ◊¥ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑ȧ¿U ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ∞∑§ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‹Ùª ŒÍ‚⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ •Ê∑§⁄U ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ø‹Ù ÷Ê߸ ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄U ‹Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ Á∑§ÃŸÊ ∞◊Ê©Uá≈U Á◊‹ªÊ, •Ê¬Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù– ÿ„U ‚’ ÃÙ Á⁄U∑§ÊÚ«¸ ◊¥ „ÒU– ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ∞∑§ ∞Ä‚Êß≈U◊¥≈U „UÙÃË „ÒU, øÊ„U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ◊ÒŸ „UÙ, øÊ„U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U⁄U „UÙ, øÊ„U ≈UË◊ ∑§ ¬˝Ù«UÔ˜ÿ͇Ê⁄U „UÙ¥, Á∑§ ø‹Ù ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄UŸ ‚ •’ ∑ȧ¿U Á◊‹Ê „ÒU– Œ‚⁄‘U ÁŒŸ ¡’ •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ŸÙ≈U ÷Ë •Ê ªÿÊ, ÃÙ ÿ„U ’Êà ‚„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈‡Êÿã‚ ÃÙ wy ÉÊ¢≈U ’˝Á∑¢§ª ãÿÍ¡ ◊Ê¢ª¥ª, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ ‚◊ÿ ‚ Œ¥ª, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ß‹ÄÔ≈˛UÊÁŸ∑§ ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ≈UÊß◊ ‚¥Á‚Á≈Ufl ÷Ë „ÒU– ŒÙ ÁŒŸ ∑§Ë ’„U‚ ø‹ ⁄U„UË „ÒU »Ò§‚‹Ê ©U‚Ë ÁŒŸ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– ∞∑§ ŸÊÚ◊¸‹ ∑§‚ ¡Ò‚ •ÊM§Á· flÊ‹Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê, fl„ Uø‹ÃÊ ⁄U„UÃÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„U ¡Ù ߇ÔÿÍ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§Ê Ä‹Ê߸◊Ä‚ ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê ∑§ Á‹∞ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù „UË ÕÊ, ≈UË•Ê⁄U¬Ë ‚’‚ ÖÿÊŒÊ ©U‚Ë flÄÔà ÕÊ– Being a veteran in this field, ÿ„U ◊Ê◊‹Ê ≈UÊß◊ ‚¥‚Á≈Ufl „ÒU, •ª⁄U ©U‚Ë flÄÔà „UÙÃÊ „ÒU ÃÙ •Ê¬ ¬Í⁄UÊ ¬˝Ù«UÄԇʟ ©U‚Ë ∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U å‹ÊŸ ∑§⁄UÃ– May be Sidhartha Gautam ∞fl¢ •ãÿ øÊ⁄U ‹Ùª ∞∑§ „UçÔÃ ‚ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ‚ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‚È’„U Ã∑§ •ı⁄U ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‚È’„U ‚ ©U‚ ÁŒŸ •ÊçÔ≈U⁄UŸÍŸ Ã∑§, •’ •Ê¬∑§Ù fl„ UøË¡ Á◊‹Ë Á¡‚∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê¬ Á¬¿U‹ ∞∑§ „UçÃ ‚ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, •’ •Ê¬∑§Ù Ÿ¡⁄U •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U S≈UÙ⁄UË Ä‹Ê߸◊Ä‚ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU, ÃÙ ¡Ò‚Ê •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ≈UË◊ •ÊÚª◊¥≈U ß‚Á‹∞ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ß‚‚ ÄÿÊ ÁŸ∑§‹ªÊ, ß‚ ¬⁄U ◊ȤÊ «UÊ©U≈U „ÒU– ÿ„U «UÊ©U≈U ß‚Á‹∞ „ÒU Á∑§ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‚È’„U ∑§Ë ¡Ù S≈UÙ⁄UË ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê߸ Á∑§ Money is delivered ÃÙ ©U‚ flÄÔà „U◊ S≈UÙ⁄UË ∑§Ù ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‹ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, •¬ŸË ≈UË◊ ∑§Ù •ª◊¥≈U ∑§⁄U∑§, being a producer, Á»§⁄U ¡Ò‚Ê •Ê¡∑§‹ „U◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ÁŒπÊŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ÁŒπÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ÄÿÊ ∞‚Ë ∑§Ù߸ ‚Ùø •Ê ‚∑§ÃË ÕË ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? üÊË ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸— Á’À∑ȧ‹ •Ê ‚∑§ÃË ÕË, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ¡ÊŸ ‹ËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ ∑§⁄UË’ ŒÙ ’¡ Ã∑§ ÿ ‹Ùª •ÊÚÁ»§‚ flʬ‚ ¬„È¢UøÃ „Ò¥U, ≈U¬ „U◊Ÿ Œπ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U, x.xÆ ’¡ ∑ȧ¿U MPs ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ ¡Ê∑§⁄U ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ß‚ øÒŸ‹ Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§Ê◊ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– ∑§fl‹ «U…∏U ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§Ê ≈UÊß◊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ „U◊¥ ÿ„U ø∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ ©U‚◊¥ •ª⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ÿ ‹Ùª ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊¥ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, ÃÙ should I not take his side of the story? •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄UË ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã ŒÁπ∞– If we had telecast it without verification, the same politician would have said Á∑§ ŒπÙ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ TRP, ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ⁄‘UÁ≈¢Uª åÔflÊߢ≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, „U⁄U øË¡ ∑§Ù ’˝Á∑¢§ª ãÿÍ¡ ’ŸÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ¡’ „U◊ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊¥ ‚◊ÿ øÊÁ„U∞ Á¡‚‚ „U◊ ß‚ flÒ⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄U ‚∑¥§, ÃÙ •Ê¬ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¡ÀŒË ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ≈Uå‚ Œπ „Ò¥U, ∑§fl‹ ≈Uå‚ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „U◊ ∑§Ù߸ S≈UÙ⁄UË Ÿ„UË¢ ’ŸÊ ‚∑§Ã Õ, S≈UÙ⁄UË ◊¥ ∑§ß¸ øË¡¥ ∞‚Ë ÕË¥ Á¡Ÿ∑§Ù ø∑§ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà ÕË– ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ ∑§≈U ∞¢«U «˛UÊ߸ ◊Ê◊‹Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ ¬Ò‚Ê Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– fl„U •ÊŒ◊Ë ¡Ù ¬Ò‚Ê Œ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, fl„U •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§ıŸ „ÒU, ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ’Êà ◊ȤÊ «U…∏U ÉÊ¢≈U ◊¥ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ‚∑§ÃË ÕË? Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ªË– ©U‚∑§Ê fl„UÊ¢ ÄÿÊ ◊∑§‚Œ „ÒU, Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë ∑¢§fl‚¸‡ÊŸ „ÈU߸ „ÒU? This is a different kind of a thing. „U◊Ê⁄‘U πÈŒ ¡Ù ¬òÊ∑§Ê⁄U Á◊òÊ „Ò¥U, fl ÷Ë ß‚

206 Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤Ê ¬Ê∞– ß‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •ª⁄U ◊Ò¥ ©U‚ ÁŒŸ S≈UÙ⁄UË ÁŒπÊÃÊ ÃÙ frankly, I would have been hauled up in any court of law because it was not a complete story in itself. There are a lot of gaps •ı⁄U ªÒå‚ ∑§Ù Á»§‹-•¬ ∑§⁄U∑§ fl„U ∑§Ê◊ ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– Then, these MPs went to the Parliament; and then Sanjeev Saxena disappeared. If I want to catch Sanjeev Saxena, how do I get him? Will he tell me the truth after that? Unfortunately, as you said, the investigation had to be aborted at 4 o’clock on that day. All I could then do is go back to the people to get their viewpoint. We have a very clear code of conduct ¡Ù ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ Ÿ „U◊¥ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– We follow the same that in any sting operation, nothing will go on air till it is fully corroborated and every side is given a fair hearing. That is the principle. That fair hearing cannot be done in one hour. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄ ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§„UË¥– ¡Ù ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË „ÒU, ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U?

üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U fl„U ÕÊ, „U◊¥ ¬ÃÊ ø‹Ê Á∑§ he is one of the facilitators. We do not know who he is. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ‚¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ‚ ¬„U‹ ÿÊ ’ÊŒ ◊¥? üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Salim sahib, apart from repeating the same questions, if there is anything else, you are most welcome to ask. MD. SALIM: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have got a question to ask you. Should I ask it in front of them or separately? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— fl„U ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ∑§⁄U ‹¥–

MR. CHAIRMAN: You can ask it later. MD. SALIM: Okay. After they go, I have to put this question to the Secretariat. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well Mr. Sardesai, according to what you have told this Committee, your entire operation was triggered off basically by the statement that Shri Bardhan made on the 14th of July. That is appreciable and understandable because the petitioners themselves had mentioned in the letter to the Speaker that this is something which shocked the entire nation. It is not only the nation, I think, it shocked people in different parts of the world also. So, we appreciate that. But having stated your operation on that note, did you consult Shri Bardhan ji and ask him the basis on which he had made the statement at a public meeting before you proceeded further to send your reporters? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We did an interview with Mr. Bardhan that day itself when he was asked this question. His response was: “This is what I have heard.” MR. CHAIRMAN: It was only on a hearsay basis. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Yes. We asked him this. On that day, he had come, I think, to our studio or he was also in one or two other studios when he was asked this question. And he said: “This is what I have heard.” He offered no proof. MR. CHAIRMAN: He did not mention any specific names or sources.

207 SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: No, Sir.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So, it is just off the record.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: From what I gather, it was off the record.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You see, one of my colleagues, Md. Salim had asked you about the difference between investigative journalism and sting operation. There is a lot of ignorance. I would like to clarify certain thoughts which I have in my mind. To me, it seems that the sting operation is something by which you can show visuals; you have a camera. Investigative journalism is something which pertains to the print media basically. So, actually there is a thin line drawn between investigative journalism and sting operation. you call it a sting when the electronic media is also involved, where some visuals can be shown. Am I right when I say this?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: No, Sir. That is not true. We would like to believe in television also that we do investigative journalism. The sting is a concept which has come when you sting someone. That is effectively—and that line is between sting and entrapment—that are you stinging someone in a legitimate way ÿÊ •Ê¬ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ≈˛ÒU¬ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– But sting is essentially a thing where you conceal your identity or you conceal your camera. The hidden camera essentially becomes a crucial element of what is defined as a sting.

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is something which cannot be done by the print media because they have no cameras to hide.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: In Britain, people have done it through that by concealing their identity as print journalists and then reported it. It probably does not have the impact that a visual image has. That is what it is.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is what I am trying to say.

You see, Mr. Sardesai, being in this field, you must be aware of certain guidelines that were proposed by the Delhi High Court after the Uma Khurana case that came up before them. Though it may not have yet been put in the Statute Book by the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, are you aware of those guidelines?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Sir, even before that judgement, we had our own code of conduct because from our partnership with CNN, we had a very strict code of conduct and guidelines. One of the guidelines is on sting operations. Firstly, sting operations will be done by us only when a story cannot be acquired by any other means possible after you have exhausted all other means of acquiring that story. Secondly, it will be acquired without paying money so that it should not seem that our reporter has been involved in any act of inducement. Thirdly, it should be done when you feel there is an act of criminality which is in the public interest which you believe needs to be exposed in the public interest. These are the three criteria that we tend to adopt. Also, after the sting operation is done, you will give a fair hearing to all those whom you may have captured on a hidden camera so that they are given a chance to defend themselves.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So, you must have had all these things in your mind when you actually chose to cross-check with these different individuals.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: That is right, Sir.

208 MR. CHAIRMAN: You see, to air or not to air is the exclusive preserve of a particular channel. And this has been my personal opinion. Whether it is print media or whether it is a TV channel, it is the editor’s right. For whatever reasons that you have already mentioned, you had not chosen to air it at that particular moment of time. You see, one of our colleagues who had appeared before us and made submissions said that you had actually promised, your channel had promised to air this particular programme before noon. Was there any such understanding?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: There was no understanding. What did happen is that our reporter naturally was excited by the thought of seeing that money and that thing having been done. For him, it was a big story. So, he did ring us up to say: “Sir, I have got all this. Can we air it?” He did ring me up. But, I said you come back to office. He may have told them.

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Even we never promised anyone because ‚ø ◊¥ ÃÙ „U◊¥ ÷Ë ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ •ı⁄U Á∑§‚ »§Ê◊¸ ◊¥ ∞ÿ⁄U „U٪ʖ ◊⁄UÊ ŒÊÁÿàfl ÕÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ •¬Ÿ ∞Á«U≈U⁄U ∑§Ù ß㻧Ù◊¸‡ÊŸ ŒÍ¢ fl«¸U ’Ê߸ fl«¸U Á∑§ ÿ„U ‚Ê⁄UÊ Á‚ÄÔfl¥‚ ∞‚ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU •ı⁄U ÿ„U Á∑§ ÄÿÊ-ÄÿÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á«U‚Ë¡Ÿ ∞Á«U≈UÙÁ⁄Uÿ‹ ≈UË◊ ‹ªË, fl„U ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ê ∑§Ê◊ ÕÊ– ÿ„U ‚ø „ÒU Á∑§ ’«∏UÊ ÁS≈¢Uª „ÒU, ’«∏UÊ „UÙŸ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§ÊꬋË∑§‡Ê¢‚ ÷Ë •Ê∞¢ª, ÿ„U ÷Ë ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ, ◊ȤÊ ©UŸ∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ÕË, fl„U Á«U‚Ë¡Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ê „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊Ÿ ¬˝ÊÚÁ◊‚ •ÊŸ »§ËÀ«U Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU–

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Sir, I can understand that the MPs may have thought that the fact that so much of money was there in front of them and it had been captured meant that—because in previous times sting have happened immediately. ÿ ‹Ùª ÷Ë ß‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ‚ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª–

MR. CHAIRMAN: So it was more of a presumption.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I think it is a presumption. Certainly from my part, no assurance was given.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. Then, as far as the Le Meridian episode is concerned, the MPs themselves had said that nothing took place over there. You were also witness or party to that particular scene when actually no transaction or talks took place as far as this issue was concerned in Meridian Hotel.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: We were not a party. üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ ◊¥ „U◊ ‹Ùª ’Ê„U⁄U Õ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Even MPs also have said that. I just want to confirm that they did not meet anybody or meet the person whom they were supposed to have met. The two MPs while making their statements before us have also said very candidly that this entire operation was sort of negotiated by Mr. Kulkarni and you. Is that a fact?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: As I said, I have not spoken to Mr. Kulkarni at all. May be, again, the MPs were given the impression that Mr. Kulkarni was negotiating with us. He was not. I have not spoken to Mr. Kulkarni till frankly yesterday when I rang him up because he had put something in the newspapers about the tapes being tampered. I said: “Look if you have something you should ring me up before you make an accusation.” That is the only time I have spoken to him. However, as I said, when my reporter came there, he did meet Mr. Kulkarni there. Mr. Kulkarni was there with the MPs throughout this operation; that is true. But, Mr. Kulkarni was not directing my reporter as to exactly what he should do.

209 SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Hundred per cent not directing. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: He may have been directing the MPs. We are not ruling that out. What Mr. Kulkarni’s equation with the MPs is, we are not ruling that out. But, he was not directing our reporter. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ ß‚Ë ◊¥ ∞«U ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, Á¡‚ ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ „U◊Ê⁄‘U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U⁄U ∑§Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË, ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà ©UŸ‚ „ÈU߸ ÿÊ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë •øÊŸ∑§ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê∞? ÿ„U ¬„U‹ „ÈU•Ê, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ∞∑§ „UË ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ∑ȧ¿U •Ê¬∑§Ù ¡Ù Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U‚¸ „Ò¥U, ¡Ù ŸÙ≈U flÊ‹Ê ’Òª „ÒU, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, fl„U ¬„U‹ ‚ „UË Õ, „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ fl„U ÷Ë •Ê ª∞ Õ– wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊‚ Á◊‹ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ flÊÃʸ „ÈU߸ ÕË, ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¡’ ŸÙ≈U ⁄Uπ ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ, ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ Õ, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥ Õ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ– ÿ„U ∞Á¬‚Ù«U „UÙ ªÿÊ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— „U◊Ÿ ¬„U‹ „UË ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ fl„U ∞«U¡‚¥≈U M§◊ ◊¥ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— fl„ U•Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ Õ? üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— fl„ Ufl„UÊ¢ Õ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: If anybody has got has any other questions, please ask now. I have got certain questions to put and I do not like to be disturbed in between. Shri Rajdeep Sardesai, you have given us your recordings—audios and videos. Did you provide the copies of the same to either Mr. Kulkarni or to the two Members of Parliament, Mr. Kulaste and Mr. Argal? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: No, Sir. No copies of those tapes were provided to either of them. MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you sure of that? SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Not from our side. MR. CHAIRMAN: I got, in a sealed cover, a transcript, stated to be the transcript of the videos which you have recorded. That is why, I asked this. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Our only apprehension—again this is only an apprehension—is that the audio conversations were made into a transcript by the BJP. I do not know from where. But we have not given anything to Mr. Kulkarni or to anyone. MR. CHAIRMAN: We have given a transcript without any audio cassette or video cassette. So, I just wanted to crosscheck from you whether you have provided them either copies of your transcript or the audio or the video, either too Mr. Kulkarni or to two MPs. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: No, Sir. Not from our point, we have not sent any tapes to anyone. MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, Mr. Sardesai. Now, you were asked to go to 27 Lodhi Estate. But in the video clipping, which you have sent to us, which we paused and saw that day, and in fact, there was just the driver and a person in the front who had been identified as ‘Sohail’.

210 SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: There is just one clarification that he wanted to give. He met Mr. Kulkarni first and then before he met Mr. Argal. He wants to say that. First we met Mr. Kulkarni and then we went to Mr. Argal. That clarification should be made. Before he met Mr. Argal, Mr. Kulkarni met him and took him there. MR. CHAIRMAN: The impression that we have got from our two colleagues was that Mr. Kulkarni was the mastermind as far as they were concerned. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: They could have been. As I said, he did not know Mr. Argal. He met Mr. Kulkarni first. He was asked to come to that place where Mr. Kulkarni was there, and Mr. Kulkarni took him to Mr. Argal. MR. CHAIRMAN: Fair enough. Now, Mr. Gautam, when you went to Mr. Argal’s house, you had put these mikes into the button holes of the shirts of these MPs. When they went to Mr. Amar Singh’s house, why is it that these mikes were not fitted into the button holes of their shirts? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I just answered that question sometime back. The MPs themselves said: “We will not go inside Mr. Amar Singh’s house…” MR. CHAIRMAN: It is not a question of not going. I am saying that the recording thing could have been taken along with them. I mean, Usually and normally, you take those wires. üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— fl„U ßÃŸÊ •Ê‚ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ŒÙŸÙ¥ Ÿ ∑ȧÃʸ-flÈÃʸ ¬„UŸÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, fl„U Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U⁄U ⁄UπŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ’„ÈUà ÷Ê⁄UË „UÙÃÊ „ÒU–

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: I think, more than that, they conveyed to him that they were scared of carrying anything inside Mr. Amar Singh’s house. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: They were scared of carrying anything inside Mr. Amar Singh’s house. MR. CHAIRMAN: The two Members of Parliament in their petition to the Speaker had clearly said that their entry into Mr. Amar Singh’s house and the conversation that took place inside was also recorded. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Not at all. MR. CHAIRMAN: You have not recorded it. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: My team had not recorded it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Even in the video, we saw that you were outside the gate. So, CNN-IBN had not sent its people to record that conversation. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Not at all. We did not go inside. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: They only said that there were telephonic conversations. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: There is nothing. In fact, that is what we are saying. There is nothing of such thing. MR. CHAIRMAN: I may have wrongly read into that. We will discuss that later. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Mr. Amar Singh is not on audio or on video in anything that we have.

211 MR. CHAIRMAN: Is Mr. Amar Singh on audio or on video in any of your tapes that you have?

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: No, Sir.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sardesai, now this was actually a private agreement or an understanding between you and whoever of the BJP to expose this kind of corrupt practice, which was taking place. So, in fact, it was not incumbent upon you to actually give these videos or cassettes to the hon. Speaker compulsorily, which you chose to do after that. And whether it is after one day or three days or five days, at least you gave them to the Speaker, and based on which we are having this hearing today. Now, actually even if you had chosen not to give any tapes or any evidence, we could have done nothing about it because yours is the private channel and you have the right to record or give your view or whatever you wanted to. However, all of us are grateful to you that you handed over whatever material that you had to the Speaker. Now you have also reiterated and corroborated the fact that these are the original tapes that you had with you, and what was not handed over, which you have given us today, about those notes and other audio visuals that you had with you.

I would like to thank you for the cooperation that you and your committee have rendered to this Committee. If there is any further clarification, please give it.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Sir, also the clarification on Mr. Kulkarni is important. He first met Mr. Kulkarni at some particular place from where he was taken to Mr. Argal’s residence. He was first met at 17 Balwant Rai Mehta Lane.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Did you know that he was Mr. Kulkarni?

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I did not know that he was Mr. Kulkarni. I was introduced later because I do not know anyone.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: He was told that you have to go to 17 Balwant Rai Mehta lane. That is what our source told us. He reached there, and from there he was taken by a gentleman whom he, later on, was told was Mr. Sudhendra Kulkarni, which I found out when I saw the tapes. He was taken by him to the residence of Mr. Argal.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You were also there outside the 27 Lodhi Estate. Did you see Mr. Sanjeev Saxena anywhere around there?

üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊— ◊Ò¥ fl„UË ’Ù‹ ⁄U„UÊ „¢UÍ Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ w| ‹ÙœË ⁄UÙ«U ∞S≈U≈U ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU– There is no way that we could know. „U◊Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ù ŒπÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Did you see him at 27 Lodhi Estate?

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I just wanted to know whether you spotted him around 27 Lodhi Estate on that morning when you were there.

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I have not.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: did you know whose house is, 17 Balwant Rai Mehta Lane?

SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No.

212 MR. CHAIRMAN: On the 27th, when even you were there in front of the Lodhi Estate, did our colleague and MP, Shri Rewati Raman Singh go along into the house, as long as this car was inside that premises? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: No, Sir. I did not see anyone. MR. CHAIRMAN: Did you recognise Shri Rewati Raman Singh? you saw him on the previous day. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I did but I have not seen him going inside in that moment. MR. CHAIRMAN: During that period when they were alleged to have been inside Mr. Amar Singh’s house, you have not seen him. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: I have not seen him. MR. CHAIRMAN: The only person who went inside was Mr. Sohail alias Raja Hindustani. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes, that is right. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that his title? SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Thank you. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ-Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª ÃÙ •Ê¬ „U◊¥ Œ Œ¥–

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: The video of the other thing is also given. I just wanted you to make a request. Since we will say ‘no comment’, you can say that it is a video. Otherwise, people are saying that so and so is not given and something else is not given. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rajdeep, let me tell you one thing. Actually that is your private property. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Sure, Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, whether you doctored it, tampered with it, or changed it, actually our concern has been you and whoever you have dealt with. Anyway, we are happy that you have gone on record to say that these are the original tapes and you have given us everything and all the evidence that you had with you, whether it was audio or video. Thank you. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Thank you. SHRI SIDHARTHA GAUTAM: Thanks a lot. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: Would you like to double-check that audio which we have given? If, by some chance, that tape is not there, we will make a fresh copy and send it to you. There is no problem there. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊¥ Á∑§‡ÔÃÙ¥ ◊¥ ≈Uå‚ ÁŒÿ „Ò¥U ÃÙ „U◊¥ ÷Ë Á∑§‡ÔÃÙ¥ ◊¥ ŒπŸË ¬«∏¥UªË– ÿ„U ‹ÊS≈U Á∑§‡Ôà „ÒU ÿÊ •ı⁄U ÷Ë ≈Uå‚ „Ò¥U ¡Ù „U◊¥ Á◊‹¥ªË– üÊË ⁄UÙÁ„Uà πãŸÊ— ∞‚Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

213 SHRI DEVENDRA PRASAD YADAV: This will be the last. [The Tape was played.] MR. CHAIRMAN: Have you given us the transcript of all the audios and videos? SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: Yes, Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. He will hand it over. Okay. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚ ∆UË∑§ ∑§⁄U∑§ •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ Á⁄U∑§ÊÚ«¸U⁄U ◊¥ Á¡ÃŸÊ ∑§Ÿfl‚¸‡ÊŸ „ÒU, fl„U Œ ŒËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— fl„U Œ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§åÔ≈U Œ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§åÔ≈U •ı⁄U •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ ∑Ò§‚≈U ÷Ë Œ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ◊„UÊ‚Áøfl (‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê)— ߟ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¡Ù ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U „ÒU, fl„U •ı⁄U ∑Ò§‚≈U Œ Œ¥ª– ‚¢ÿÈÄÔà ‚Áøfl— ß‚∑§Ë ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§åÔ≈U •ÊÚ‹⁄‘U«˜UÔ«UË ŒË „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ¡Ù ÿ„U ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, fl„U ÷Ë Œ Œ¥ª–

MR. CHAIRMAN: You can switch it off. Please give us the transcript of all the records—both audio and video. It will help us. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚◊¥ Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ê Ä‹ËÔÿ⁄U⁄UU flÊ‹Ê Œ Œ¥– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ fl„U ©UŸ‚ ‹ ‹ŸÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚∑§Ê Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U Á⁄U∑§ÊÚ«¸U‚¸ ‚ ¡Ù ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ flÊ‹Ê „ÒU, fl„U ÷Ë Œ ŒËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— fl„U ÷Ë ÿ„UË „ÒU–

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ •ı⁄U flËÁ«UÿÙ ∑§Ù Á◊‹Ê ∑§⁄U Œ¥– That is what I say.

SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: When we will do for our telecast, we will do that. That will give a clear thing. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: The audio and video should be submerged together. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: We can give you a tape where we can marry these two things. We will do that. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: That is what we are asking. SHRI ROHIT KHANNA: We will do that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Rajdeep. Thank you all very much. SHRI RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Thank you, Sir. [The Witnesses then withdrew.] MR. CHAIRMAN: Friends, first of all, I would like that all these transcripts we received to be made into copies and circulated to all the Members. Ÿß¸ ¡Ù ∑Ò§‚≈U ŒË „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ë ÷Ë ∑§ÊÚ¬Ë ’ŸÊ ∑§⁄U Œ ŒËÁ¡∞– That is the first task to be done as soon as possible.

214 PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Sir, the only thing I have to say is that I rang up Mr. Sharma many times because in the verbatim transcript he gave us, there were two pages missing. Page Nos. 49 and 50 were not there. Then, the question I raised and Md. Salimji has raised is about this tape. Now they have given. If you have those tapes there, why have they not been there? That was answered by the Members. But it was not recorded here. MR. CHAIRMAN: In fact, I must tell you that Sharmaji had already informed me that due to some oversight or mistake, two pages were missing. Now, in fact, I have now asked him to go through the audios and correct the transcripts also. This is the initial thing which they have given, the reports have been taken. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚◊¥ ◊Ò¥Ÿ •ı⁄U ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ŒÙ ’Ê⁄U ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ– ◊Òê’‚¸ Ÿ Á¡‚ flÄÔà ∑§„UÊ •ı⁄U πàÔ◊ „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚Ë«UË ŒπË–

MR. CHAIRMAN: That will be included. Whatever has been missing, ◊Ò¥ fl„UË ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ ‚ ‚ÈŸ ∑§⁄U ∆UË∑§ ∑§⁄UflÊ ∑§⁄U ∑§ÊÚ⁄ÒUÁÄ≈U«U fl‡Ê¸Ÿ ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U ∑§⁄UÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– That transcription will be corrected and sent.

On the 18th we will be calling Shri Reoti Raman Singh, Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni, Mr. Sanjeev Saxena and Mr. Raja Hindustani in that order. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ¡M§⁄Uà ¬«∏U ÃÙ ©U‚ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— fl„U Œπ ‹¥ª– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ øÊ⁄UÙ¥ ∑§Ê ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ◊¥ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ’„ÈUà ÖÿÊŒÊ ÄÔflÒ‡Ôøã‚ Ÿ ¬Í¿¥U ÃÙ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— fl„U ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ „UÊÕ ◊¥ „ÒU–

There is one more thing. MD. SALIM: Sir, I have a question, I told you, for this meeting. The notice for today’s meeting, •Ê¡ ∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§Ê ¡Ù ŸÙÁ≈U‚ ‚Ò∑˝§≈UÁ⁄Uÿ≈U ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, ÃÊ⁄UËπ | •ªSÃ, ¬¡ Ÿê’⁄U ŒÙ, Á¡‚ ≈UË◊ ∑§Ù ∞Áfl«¥U‚ ∑§ Á‹∞ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, fl„UÊ¢ ’˝Ë»§ ‚’¡ÒÄÔ≈U ∑§Ù Œπ¥– Sir, please refer to the notice issued for today’s meeting on which it is mentioned that the six people belonging to the CNN-IBN were asked to appear, it is mentioned on page 2. We have a very efficient Secretariat and a very experienced Chairman. You have ‘brief subject’ { ŸÊ◊Ù¥ ∑§ ¬„U‹ ’˝Ë»§ ‚’¡ÒÄÔ≈U „ÒU– There is a subject given—‘Incident of bringing currency notes in the House and placing them on the Table of the House by three members during discussion on the Motion of Confidence.’ MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MD. SALIM: Please let me complete. Sir, the Committee of which we are members and you are the Chairman, that says—‘The Committee is to enquire into the complaint made by some of the Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence’. The CNN-IBN’s involvement is not in the money being placed on the Table of the House or bringing in the House. The CNN-IBN’s involvement is in the same, which the nomenclature

215 of the Committee says—‘alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion and recording thereof, recording or sting operation etc.’ So, today’s meeting’s subject is not—the money brought to the House. Sir, I want this on record. That is why I am saying this. Then, you can comment on this. You have the right, being Chairman. You can rule out also. The incident of bringing currency notes in the House and placing them on the Table of the House by three Members during discussion on the Motion of Confidence. ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ •ı⁄U •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ë ≈UË◊ ‚ „U◊ ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿¥U– Was there any question? Was there any involvement of this team? MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Salim, let me also say that this complaint from Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting arose after the money was placed on the Table of the House. It was an unprecedented incident which brought shame to our democratic institution. It was because of this that the hon. Speaker has set up this Committee and asked us to enquire. So, they are closely interconnected. Had the money not been placed on the Table of the House, the question of bribery would not have arisen. That would have been dealt with by some of the investigating agency under section 7 of the Prevention of Corruption Act, especially after the courts have said that MPs also come under the definition of ‘public servants’. MD. SALIM: Sir, what I am saying is that the subject of today’s discussion with CNN-IBN people was not the money placed on the Table of the House. This was related to the recording of sting operation and whatever investigation they have done and the CDs they have given. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have understood your point. I am not saying ‘no’. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: This Committee is to inquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence. This is the name of the Committee. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, that is right. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: So, the Committee’s name should remain the same. It cannot go on changing day by day. MR. CHAIRMAN: Actually, this does not alter or change the name of the Committee. MD. SALIM: I have gone on record. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have also gone on record to clarify certain things. Now if Members are so sensitive about the title or matter that is to be given, from next time, we will change it. All that I am trying to say is that I have been seeing Parliament Secretariat for the last 30 years. It is one of the most efficient Secretariats irrespective of which Party is ruling and which Party has been in the Opposition. I do not think that this has been deliberately done. MD. SALIM: I am not saying about the Secretariat. The subject-matter is decided by the Chairman. Sir, you are empowered to do that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Therefore, I do not see anything wrong in what has been written today. They are both closely inter-related. MD. SALIM: Sir, I put this on record.

216 MR. CHAIRMAN: You put it on record and I also put on record my view that the entire Committee came into being only because the money was put on the Table of the House, without which the Committee may not have come into existence. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Hon. Speaker appointed the Committee with a subject. That should remain the same. We should not change it. MR. CHAIRMAN: I agree with you, but I want to go on record to say that the Speaker appointed this Committee only after money was placed on the Table of the House. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚⁄U, ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ •ª‹Ë ’Ò∆U∑§ ∑§’ „ÒU, v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „ÒU ÿÊ v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „ÒU? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ’Ò∆U∑§ „ÒU– ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊¥ çÔ‹«U ¬ËÁ«∏Uà ߋÊ∑§Ù¥ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– «U≈U •÷Ë Ãÿ ∑§⁄U ŒÃ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ÁŒ◊ʪ ◊¥ ’ŸÊ ‹ÃÊ Á∑§ ∑§’ •ÊŸÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ∑§’ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— v} ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊¥ •Ù‹Áê¬∑§ ªê‚ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU, øÍ¢Á∑§ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ù‹Áê¬∑§ ªê‚ πàÔ◊ „UÙ¥ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ò‚Ê ÷Ë „UÙ, ÿ„U ◊Ò¥ »§ÊÚ⁄U ߢ»§Ù◊¸‡ÊŸ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ ÄÿÊ wy ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù flʬ‚ •Êÿ¥ª? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù flʬ‚ •Êÿ¥ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ¡’ ÷Ë ∑§Á⁄Uÿ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊¥ •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ „UÙ ¡Ê∞, ÃÊÁ∑§ „U◊ ©U‚ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ •¬ŸÊ ¬˝Ùª˝Ê◊ ’ŸÊ ‹¥, •ãÿÕÊ „U◊¥ ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– MR. CHAIRMAN: Prof. Malhotra, I would like to have the views of all the hon. Members on one thing. I think, we should send another request to Shri Bhagora to come on 18th August, in case he is physically fit. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Okay. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— üÊË ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ı⁄U ÷Ë „Ò¥U– ¡Ù ÷Ë ‚Ë.«UË. S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ Õ˝Í ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¬„È¢Uø ªß¸ „Ò¥U, fl„U ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ë ¬˝Ù¬≈U˸ „ÒU– ©U‚∑§ ™§¬⁄U ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà „UÙªË, ©U‚∑§Ë ÁS∑˝§åÔ≈U ŒπË ¡ÊÿªË ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπË ¡ÊÿªË ÿÊ ©U‚∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ flÒÁ⁄UÁ»§∑§‡ÊŸ, ‚àÿʬŸ ÿÊ ª‹Ã ÁÃÁÕ ∑§Ù ÕÊ, ÄÿÊ ÕÊ, Ÿ∑§‹Ë ÕÊ ÿÊ ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë ÕÊ– ©U‚∑§Ë ÷Ë ÃÙ ¡Ê¢ø „UÙŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ¡’ fl„U ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ¬Ê‚ •Ê ªß¸ „ÒU ÃÙ •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§ËÁ¡∞ªÊ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§ËÁ¡∞ªÊ? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ù ÷Ë ≈U¬ •ı⁄U •Êÿ „Ò¥U, øÊ„U fl„U ©U◊Ê ÷Ê⁄UÃË ¡Ë ∑§Ê „UÙ ÿÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê „UÙ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ¬„U‹ ߟ∑§Ù Œπ ‹Ù– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¬„U‹ ߟ∑§Ù Œπ¥ª, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á«U‚Êß«U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „UÊ¢, ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥, ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÀŒ’Ê¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– MR. CHAIRMAN: I think, courtesy demands that we make one more request to our colleague. So, we shall request him. (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

217 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 18 August, 2008, comprising evidence of (i) Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP (ii) Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni (iii) Shri Suhail Hindustani (iv) Shri Sanjiv Saxena MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Rewati Raman Singhji, I welcome you to this sitting of ours. You have been requested to appear before the Committee to give evidence regarding the sting operation conducted by CNN-IBN concerning the alleged offer of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, Members of Parliament, in connection with Voting on the Confidence Motion. I may also inform you that under Rule 275 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Lok Sabha, the evidence that you give before the Committee is to be treated as confidential till the Report of the Committee and its proceedings are presented to the Lok Sabha. Any premature disclosure or publication of the proceedings of the Committee would constitute a breach of privilege and contempt of the House. The evidence that you give before the Committee would be reported to the House. If you could kindly take the oath. (‚ÊˇÊË mÊ⁄UÊ ‡Ê¬Õ ‹Ë ªÿË–) MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Rewati Raman Singhji, you know what the whole subject is about. If you would like to make any initial remarks or say something about this episode, you may do so, after which the hon. Members may make some queries, to which you may kindly reply. üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿªáÊ, ‚’‚ ¬„U‹ ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„Í¢UªÊ Á∑§ øÊ‹Ë‚ ‚Ê‹Ù¥ ∑§ ◊⁄‘U ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁÃ∑§ ¡ËflŸ ◊¥ ÿ„U ¬„U‹Ë ÉÊ≈UŸÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù ◊⁄‘U Áπ‹Ê»§ ∞∑§ ‚ÊÁ¡‡Ê ∑§ M§¬ ◊¥ ∑§Ë ªÿË „ÒU– ß‚‚ Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ◊Ò¥, ’ÁÀ∑§ ◊⁄UÊ ¬Í⁄UÊ ¬Á⁄UflÊ⁄U, ◊⁄‘U ‡ÊÈ÷Áø¢Ã∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U ¡ŸÃÊ ’„ÈUà „UË ŒÈπË „ÒU– ◊Êãÿfl⁄U, ◊Ò¥ •Ê¡ Ã∑§ •Ê∆U ’Ê⁄U ©UûÊ⁄U ¬˝Œ‡Ê ÁflœÊŸ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ê ÁflœÊÿ∑§ ⁄U„UÊ, •¬Ÿ ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁÃ∑§ ¡ËflŸ ◊¥ ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ê ‚ŒSÿ øÈŸÊ ªÿÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊⁄‘U Áπ‹Ê»§ •Ê¡ Ã∑§ œÊ⁄UÊ vÆ| ÿÊ v{ ∑§Ê ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ◊È∑§Œ◊Ê Œ¡¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê– ◊Êãÿfl⁄U, Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ∞‚Ê ∑§Ù߸ ß⁄UÊŒÊ ÕÊ, Ÿ „U◊Ÿ ß‚◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ¬„U‹ ∑§Ë– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë „U◊∑§Ù Á◊‹ •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¢Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚ Á‚‹Á‚‹ ◊¥ •Ê¬ •ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U? ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „UË •Ê∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ê fl‹∑§◊ „ÒU, ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •Ê¬ •Ê ¡Êß∞– ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù fl ◊⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ «UËÁ‹Á◊≈U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚Ë≈U πà◊ „UÙ ªÿË „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ŒÙ ‚ÊÕË ÷Ë „Ò¥Uó∞∑§ ⁄UÊ¡SÕÊŸ ‚ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ‚ „Ò¥U– fl ‹Ùª ÷Ë ß‚ ’Ê⁄U ‚¢÷fl× ÷Ê¡¬Ê ‚ Á≈U∑§≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Ê∞¢ª, fl ÷Ë •Ê¬‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„¥Uª– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •Ê¬ •Ê ¡Êß∞ªÊ– •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •∑§‹ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ÷Ë Õ– fl •Ê∞, fl„UÊ¢ ’Ò∆U, •ÊÒ¬øÊÁ⁄U∑§ ’Êà ∑§ ’ÊŒ, ∑§Ê»§Ë ¬ËŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÕÙ«∏UË Œ⁄U ∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ‚ÍÁøà ∑§⁄‘¥Uª •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ ∞◊¬ËÊ ‚ ÷Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ Œ¥ª– „U◊¥ ∞∑§ ÃÙ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ê Á≈U∑§≈U •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∞‡ÿÙ⁄U ∑§⁄U Œ •ÊÒ⁄U øÍ¢Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ •ŸÈ‚ÍÁøà ¡ÊÁà ∑§Ê „Í¢U •ÊÒ⁄U ÇflÊÁ‹ÿ⁄U ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ◊È⁄ÒUŸÊ ‚ •ÊÃÊ „Í¢U, Á‹„UÊ¡Ê „U◊Ê⁄UÊ •ŸÈ‚ÍÁøà ¡ÊÁà ◊¥ •ë¿UÊ ¬˝÷Êfl ÷Ë „ÒU, „U◊ •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ê⁄‘U Á¬ÃÊ ¡Ë ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ‚ŒSÿ ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U ⁄U„U øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ¡’ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË, ÃÙ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ ŒËÁ¡∞ªÊ– ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ¡Ù „ÈU•Ê, •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ù øÒ∑§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ– „U◊ ‚ÙŸ ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ– „U◊ vv ’¡ ‚Ù ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U, ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊∑§Ù ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¡ÀŒË ’Êà ∑§⁄UÙ, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ „U◊ ‚ÙŸ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– fl ‹Ùª ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ≈UÊß◊ ◊Ê¢ªÃ ⁄U„U– ◊Ò¥ ‚ÙŸ ø‹Ê ªÿÊ– ⁄UÊà ∑§ ‚Ê…∏U ÇÿÊ⁄U„U ’¡ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê∞– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U »§Ê≈U∑§ ¬⁄U ÃÊ‹Ê ’¢Œ ⁄U„UÃÊ „ÒU– ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÉÊ¢≈UË Œ’ÊÿË– „U◊Ê⁄‘U Ÿı∑§⁄U ¬Ë¿U •Ê©U≈U „UÊ©U‚¡ ◊¥ ⁄U„UÃ „Ò¥U– „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ÷ÃË¡Ê ªÿÊ, ÃÙ ©U‚‚ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ

221 Á∑§ „U◊ ‹Ùª •Ê∞ „Ò¥U, ’ÃÊ ŒËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ ∞◊¬Ë¡ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U– ©U‚Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ‚È’„U •Ê∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ’„ÈUà ¡M§⁄UË ’Êà „ÒU, ß‚Ë ‚◊ÿ „U◊∑§Ù ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU– ©U‚Ÿ ÃÊ‹Ê πÙ‹Ê, ÿ ‹Ùª •¢Œ⁄U •Ê∞– ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê¬ øÒ∑§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ë ¬Ë‚Ë•Ê⁄U ªÊ«∏UË ÷Ë ‹ªË ÕË– ∞∑§ ‚⁄UŒÊ⁄U ¬Ë‚Ë•Ê⁄U ∑§ ¡Ù ÷Ë ⁄U„U „UÙ¥, ∞‚∞ø•Ê ÿÊ ß¢S¬Ä≈U⁄U ©U‚ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÙ Á‚¬Ê„UË ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ Õ– ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ÷Ë ŒπÊ „U٪ʖ „U◊Ÿ ÂŒË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ÷Ë ßŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù •ÊÃ „ÈU∞ ŒπÊ „U٪ʖ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ŒÙ ∞◊.¬Ë. ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ ø‹ øÁ‹∞– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê∞¢ª– ◊„UÙŒÿ, „U◊ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊÃ– „U◊¥ ∞◊¬Ë ’Ÿ ‚flÊ øÊ⁄U ‚Ê‹ „UÙ ª∞, ⁄UÊ◊ªÙ¬Ê‹ ¡Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ŸÃÊ „Ò¥U, ‡ÊÊÿŒ ◊Ò¥ ߟ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ÷Ë ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ „Í¢U– ∑§÷Ë ∞∑§-ŒÙ ’Ê⁄U ߟ‚ •ÊÁ»§‚ ◊¥ „UË ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ÿÊ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù Á∑§‚Ë ÷Ë ¡ª„U, ¡ÊŸ-¬„UøÊŸ flÊ‹Ë ¡ª„U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊÃÊ „Í¢U– ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ „U◊¥ ’„ÈUà ¬˝Ò‡Ê⁄UÊß¡ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ fl ‹Ùª •Ê¬∑§Ê ߢáÊ⁄U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©Uã„¥U ∑§„UË¥ ‹Ã •Êß∞– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ øÊ⁄UÙ¥ Ã⁄U»§ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „ÒU, „U◊ ’«∏UË ◊ÈÁ‡∑§‹ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞ „Ò¥U, Á‹„UÊ¡Ê •Ê¬ „UË ø‹ ø‹¥, ÃÙ ’„UÃ⁄U „U٪ʖ „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „ÒU, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ fl„U „U◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UÙ∑§ªË? ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ Ÿ„UË¥, •Ê¬∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UÙ∑§ªË– fl ‹Ùª •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U •Êª ø‹ ªÿ– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ •¬Ÿ ÷ÃË¡ ©Uà∑§·¸ Á‚¢„U ∞Á‹ÿÊ‚ ÁflÄ∑§Ë ∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ’≈UÊ, ÃÈ◊ ªÊ«∏UË ø‹Ê∑§⁄U ‹ ø‹Ù– fl„UË ªÊ«∏UË ø‹Ê∑§⁄U ‹ ªÿÊ– ©UŸ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË •Êª ’…∏U ªß¸– ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ÕÙ«∏UË ¬„U‹ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ ÕË Á¡‚Ÿ é‹Ê∑§«U ∑§⁄U ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ, ¬ÈÁ‹‚ øÒ∑§ ¬ÙS≈U ‹ªÊ ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ê ÉÊ⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ „ÒU– fl ∑§„UŸ ‹ª Á∑§ „U◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ Á∑§ ∑§„UÊ¢ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÁŒÀ‹Ë ∑§ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ÁŒÀ‹Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§ Ÿ „UÙ∑§⁄U ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‚ÙøÊ Á∑§ flÙ≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê ‚ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ◊¢ªflÊ߸ ªß¸ „U٪˖ ’„U⁄U„UÊ‹ „U◊Ÿ üÊË ‚È„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ù »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ÕÙ«∏UÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •Êª ’Á…∏U∞, fl„UË¥ ¬⁄U üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ê ÉÊ⁄U „ÒU– ‚¢÷fl× ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ øÊ⁄U Ÿê’⁄U ’ÃÊÿÊ– ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ªÿÊ– fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ŒÙ ∞◊¬Ë¡ •ÊÒ⁄U ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ÷Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ ÕË– fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’Êà ‡ÊÈM§ ∑§Ë– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ’ÃÊß∞, ÄÿÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U? ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ªß¸ „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „UÊ¢, ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, ÃÙ •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ŸÃÊ•Ê¥ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– Á≈U∑§≈U ∑§ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ „U◊ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊ ¬Ê∞¢ª– Ã÷Ë ‚¢÷fl× üÊË ∑ȧ‹SÃ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ what about the amount. ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ◊ȤÊ ÿÊŒ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U flªÒ⁄U„U ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ– •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ø‹¥ª, ÃÙ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Ãÿ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ øÈŸÊfl ‹«∏UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, ¬Ê≈U˸ ø‹ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÄÿÊ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ÄÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ø‹ŸÊ „UÙ, ÃÙ ø‹¥, Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ŸÊ „UÙ ÃÙ ◊à ø‹¥, ∑§Ù߸ ¡Ù⁄U-¡’⁄UŒSÃË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ flÙ≈U ŒËÁ¡∞ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ∞é‚Ò¥≈U „UÙ ¡Êß∞– ÿ„U ¬Ù‹ËÁ≈U∑§‹ ∑§ıã‚Á¬⁄‘‚Ë ∑§ ÄUà Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– •ª⁄U „U◊Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ ‹Ê‹ø Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ, ©Uã„¥U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ∞’S≈UŸ ∑§⁄U ¡Ê∞¢ ÿÊ ÿͬË∞ ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ »§fl⁄U ◊¥ flÙ≈U ∑§⁄‘¥U, ÃÙ „U◊ ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ Á¡ê◊ŒÊ⁄U „Ò¥U– fl ‹Ùª ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U-∞◊Ê©¢U≈U ÁøÀ‹Ê ⁄U„U Õ– ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U ∑§Ê ◊∑§‚Œ „U◊¥ ¡Ù ‚◊¤Ê ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ, ¡Ù üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË Á∑§ fl •äÿˇÊ ’ŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ– ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕË Ÿ ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •ª⁄U ÿ„U •äÿˇÊ ’Ÿ¥ª ÃÙ „U◊¥ øÈŸÊfl ‹«∏UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà ¬«∏UªË– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ë fl„U ’Êà „U◊Ê⁄‘U ŸÃÊ•Ê¥ ‚ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹ •Ê∞– •ª⁄U •Ê¬ Œπ¥, ÃÙ „U◊ S‹Ë¬⁄U ¬„UŸ∑§⁄U ø‹ ªÿ Õ– „U◊ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ‚Ù ⁄U„U Õ– „U◊Ÿ ∞∑§ ‚Œ⁄UË «UÊ‹ ‹Ë, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊ ‚Œ⁄UË ¬„UŸÃ ⁄U„UÃ „Ò¥U– „U◊ ‚Œ⁄UË •ÊÒ⁄U S‹Ë¬⁄U «UÊ‹∑§⁄U ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ø‹ ªÿ– •ª⁄U „U◊¥ ÿ„U ‚’ ∑§⁄UŸÊ, ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ „UÙÃÊ ÃÙ ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë ’Êà ÄÿÙ¥ ∑§⁄UÃ? ◊∑§‚Œ ÄÿÊ ÕÊ-∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ∑§Ê◊ Á∑§‚Ë ◊∑§‚Œ ‚ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ Œπ ‹¥, •ª⁄U ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ÿ„U ‚ÊÁ’à „UÙ ¡Ê∞, ÃÙ •Ê¬ „U◊¥ Œ¢«U ŒŸÊ øÊ„¥U, Œ¥– fl ‹Ùª ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U »§ÙŸ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∑§⁄U •¬Ÿ »§ÙŸ ∑§Ê Á⁄U‚Ëfl⁄U ŸËø ⁄UπflÊ ÁŒÿÊ– ◊Ò¥ ‚ÙŸ ø‹Ê ªÿÊ– ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ÷Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÷ÃË¡ Ÿ „UË »§Ê≈U∑§ πÙ‹Ê– üÊË ‚È„U‹ Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ê ◊Ù’Êß‹ Ÿê’⁄U ‹ Á‹ÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù Ÿê’⁄U ÷¡ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– •Ê¬ øÒ∑§-•¬ ∑§⁄U ‹¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Á«U¬Ê≈¸U◊Ò¥≈U ‚ Á◊‹flÊ ‹¥ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– fl„U ¡Ù ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë, •Ê¬ Ÿê’⁄U Œπ ‹¥, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸– „U◊ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ¡Ê∑§⁄U ‚Ù ª∞– ‚È’„U ¡’ ◊Ò¥Ÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§

222 „U◊Ê⁄‘U Ÿê’⁄U ¬Í⁄‘U „UÙ ª∞ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊¥ ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ÿ ‹Ùª ’ŒŸÊ◊‡ÊÈŒÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U– ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§ Áπ‹Ê»§ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë Á‡Ê∑§Êÿà „UÙ øÈ∑§Ë „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚Ÿ ÄflÒ‡øŸ ¬Í¿UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬Ò‚Ê Á‹ÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ Á¬ÃÊ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ë ‹Êß’˝⁄UË ‚ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ÁŸ∑§‹flÊ∑§⁄U Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞, üÊË ’Ê’Í‹Ê‹ •ª¸‹ Ÿ ÷Ë ∞∑§ ⁄UÊc≈˛UËÿ ŸÃÊ ¬⁄U, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ¡’ ÿ ∞◊¬Ë Õ, ∞∑§ •ÊˇÊ¬ ‹ªÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Êãÿfl⁄U, ¡’ „U◊Ê⁄UË üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸, „U◊ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ©Uã„¥U ‹∑§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿ Ã’ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Á¬Äø⁄U ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •Ê ª∞– ÿ„U ¬Í⁄UÊ ∑§Ÿ∑§Êćʟ „ÒU, •‚àÿ „ÒU, ß‚◊¥ ‹‡Ê◊ÊòÊ ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ‚ìÊÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë, •Ê¬Ÿ •÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ª∞– ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¡ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ •ª⁄U Á∑§‚Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬∑§Ë ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸, ÃÙ fl„U Á∑§‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ „ÈU߸? •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§ ‹Ò¥«U‹Êߟ ‚ ÿÊ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ß‚ øÒ∑§ ∑§⁄U Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊⁄UË üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¡ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ë Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ ¡Ù ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ „Ò¥U, ©Uã„¥U •Ê¬Ÿ ∞’S≈UŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ, ÃÙ ©U‚∑§Ê ◊∑§‚Œ ÄÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ flÙ≈U Ÿ «UÊ‹Ÿ ¡Ê∞¢– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥– „U◊Ÿ •¬Ÿ ’ÿÊŸ ◊¥ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ– •ª⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „UÙ, ÃÙ ©U‚ •Ê¬ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– „U◊Ÿ Ÿ ∞’S≈UŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ ¬ˇÊ ◊¥ flÙ≈U ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù ©UŸ‚ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •ª⁄U ŒπŸÊ øÊ„¥U, ÃÙ ‚Ë«UË ÷Ë Œπ ‹¥ Á∑§ •Ê¬ øÁ‹∞, •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– •Ê¬Ÿ ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà ÷Ë ∑§„UË– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà üÊË ∑ȧ‹SÃ Ÿ ∑§Ë– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl„U •‹ª „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ’ÊÚ‚ ‚ Á◊‹Ÿ ø‹¥– ©UŸ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’ÊÃøËà „UÙªË •ÊÒ⁄U fl„UË¥ ¬⁄U ‚’ øË¡¥ Ãÿ „UÙ ¡Ê∞¢ªË– •Ê¬∑§Ê ’ÊÚ‚ ∑§„UŸ ‚ ÄÿÊ ◊Ë’ ÕÊ? •Ê¬ Á∑§‚∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊ •¬ŸË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ŸÃÊ•Ê¥ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ∑§ıŸ, Á∑§Ÿ∑§ ¬Ê‚? •Ê¬ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ øÁ‹∞– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë „Ò¥U– •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥, •Ê¬∑§Ù Ä‹Ò⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄U Œ¥ Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ¬„U‹ ◊È⁄ÒUŸÊ ‚ •Ê߸‚Ë‚Ë ∑§ ◊Òê’⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– „U◊Ê⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ê ∞Á⁄UÿÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ŒπÃ „Ò¥U, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ∞Ä‚å‹Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U ‚ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ‚◊¤Ê Á∑§ fl Á≈U∑§≈U ◊Ê¢ªŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ’ÊŒ ◊¥ øÈŸÊfl ‹«∏UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ¬Ò‚Ê •ÊÒ⁄U •äÿˇÊ ’ŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— fl ◊Ê¢ªŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ øÊ„UÃ, •äÿˇÊ ’ŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ©Uã„¥U πø¸ ÿÊ ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà „UÙªË, ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∞◊Ê©¢U≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà fl„UÊ¢ ø‹∑§⁄U ©UŸ‚ ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ÷Ë ÿ„UË ’Êà ∑§„UË– ∞∑§ ’Êà ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U •Ê ⁄U„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U Õ, Ã’ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ–

223 üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ¡Ù ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿê’⁄U Œ¥ª, ©Uã„¥U Á◊‹Ê Á‹ÿÊ ¡Êÿ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬ Á◊‹Ê ‹¥– ⁄UÊà ◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë ªÿË •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UflÊ߸– ◊Ò¥Ÿ Ÿ ÃÙ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù »§ÙŸ Á◊‹ÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË ◊Ò¥Ÿ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ߟ∑§Ë •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸– •Ê¬ Ÿê’⁄U Á◊‹Ê∑§⁄U Œπ ‹¥– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ üÊË ‚È„U‹ ∑§Ù ∑Ò§‚ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ– fl üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Êÿ Õ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •Êÿ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊ ¬„U‹ Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§÷Ë Á◊‹ „Ò¥U, Ÿ „U◊ ©UŸ∑§Ë ‡ÊÄ‹ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË ©Uã„¥U ¬„U‹ ¬„UøÊŸÃ Õ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ©UŸ∑§Ë ¡Ù ∞åflÊߢ≈U◊Ò¥≈U ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U •ª‹ ÁŒŸ fl Á◊‹Ÿ ªÿ, fl„U •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§⁄UflÊ߸ ÕË?

üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ‚Ê„U’, with due respect to you, •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà ‚ÈŸ ‹¥, „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊ ÷Ë øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ ∞åflÊߢ≈U◊Ò¥≈U ∑§⁄UflÊ߸ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ Ÿ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ªÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ∞åflÊߢ≈U◊Ò¥≈U ∑§Ë– ÿ„U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ ø‹ ª∞, ÿ„UË ’«∏UË ÷Ê⁄UË Á◊S≈˛UË „ÒU ¡Ù „U◊¥ ‚◊¤Ê ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê ⁄U„UË „ÒU– •Ê¬ Œπ ‹¥, „U◊Ê⁄‘U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚, Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ªÿÊ „Í¢U– „U◊Ÿ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË, ÃÙ ÿ „U◊¥ ‚ÊÕ ‹ ¡ÊÃ– ÿ «UÊÿ⁄‘UÄ≈U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑Ò§‚ ¬„È¢Uø ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U ÄÿÙ¥ ¬„È¢Uø ªÿ? •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ߟ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ߟ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ∞åflÊߢ≈U◊Ò¥≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê, ÃÙ ÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ¬„È¢Uø ªÿ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ •ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ ÄÿÊ üÊË ‚È„U‹ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ªÿ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ Õ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U fl„UÊ¢ ‚ Á»§⁄U •Ê¬ ߟ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •Êÿ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ߟ∑§ ∑§„UŸ ¬⁄U •Êÿ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— üÊË ‚È„U‹ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ߟ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ªÿ Õ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, •Ê¬ ¬Ë‚Ë•Ê⁄U ‚ øÒ∑§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl •Êÿ Õ– ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ∑§Ê ÃÊ‹Ê πÈ‹flÊÿÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ ‚’ ’ÊÃ¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ÿÊ üÊË ‚È„U‹ ‚ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ∑§Ë¥– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ê⁄UË üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ üÊË ‚È„U‹ ‚ ’ÊÃøËà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Ÿ„UË¥– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬∑§ Á∑§‚Ë ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ∑§ŸÒćʟ ÕÊ?

224 üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— fl »§ÙŸ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ Á∑§ ÿ ∞◊¬Ë¡ Á◊‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ÿ ‹Ùª •Ê¬∑§Ê ߢáÊ⁄U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥, fl •¬Ÿ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ– „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ßSÃ◊Ê‹ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÷ÃË¡ ∑§Ù ¡Ù ©U‚Ÿ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, •ª⁄U •Ê¬ øÊ„¥Uª ÃÙ „U◊ ©U‚∑§ ≈UÊßÁ◊¢Ç‚ flªÒ⁄U„U •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷¡ Œ¥ª– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ¡M§⁄U ÷¡ ŒËÁ¡∞ ÃÊÁ∑§ „U◊ øÒ∑§ ∑§⁄U ‹¥– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ •ÊÒ⁄U ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ Á∑§‚ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ªÿ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ªÿ Õ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ ÿ ¬„U‹ ÁŒŸ ªÿ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÿ ¬„U‹ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •Êÿ •ÊÒ⁄U Á»§⁄U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù •Êÿ– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÃÊ‹Ê ’¢Œ ÕÊ Á¡‚ ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ πÈ‹flÊÿÊ– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¬Ë‚Ë•Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ π«∏UË ÕË, •Ê¬ ©U‚‚ øÒ∑§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— fl •Ê¬‚ ÄÿÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ë ‚Ë≈U «UË-Á‹Á◊≈U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ πà◊ „UÙ ªÿË ÕË– „U◊¥ ÿ„U ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, „U◊ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– „U◊Ÿ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù Ÿ ∑§÷Ë ¬„UøÊŸÊ, Ÿ ¡ÊŸÊ– „U◊‚ ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚Ë≈U «UË-Á‹Á◊≈U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ πà◊ „UÙ ªÿË „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊¥ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ‚ Á≈U∑§≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹ªÊ– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ Á»§⁄U •Ê¬ ÄÿÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U? ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊¥ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ê •äÿˇÊ ’ŸÊ ÁŒÿÊ ¡Êÿ– ◊Ò¥ •ŸÈ‚ÍÁøà ¡ÊÁà ∑§Ê „Í¢U •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ„U ’Ê«¸U⁄U ∑§Ê ∞Á⁄UÿÊ „ÒU– fl„UÊ¢ ’„ÈU¡Ÿ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ê ¬˝÷Êfl ˇÊòÊ „ÒU– ©U‚ „U◊ ’πÍ’Ë ∑§Ê≈U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– •ª⁄U „U◊¥ •äÿˇÊ ’ŸÊ Œ¥ª, ÃÙ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ù fl„UÊ¢ ◊¡’Íà ’ŸÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ „U◊¥ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ë ¡M§Ã ¬«∏UªË– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U πà◊ „UÙ ¡ÊŸ ŒËÁ¡∞– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬ ø‹ŸÊ, „U◊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù Ãÿ ∑§⁄UflÊ Œ¥ª– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ÿ„U ’Êà ÄÿÙ¥ ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— fl ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ù ŒπÃ Õ– „U◊ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UflÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ Á∑§ •ª⁄U fl ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‹ŸÊ øÊ„¥U, ©U‚‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ »§ÊÿŒÊ „UÙ, ÃÙ fl ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U∑§ Œπ ‹¥– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚È’„U ÿ ‹Ùª •Ê¬‚ Á◊‹ ÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§„UË¥ ªÿ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊Ȥʂ ∑§Ù߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹Ê, ÿ„UË ‚’‚ ’«∏UË „ÒU⁄Uà ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ Á◊‹Ê, Ÿ „UË „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ÿ ‹Ùª •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •Êÿ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË ◊Ò¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚È’„U ªÿÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ¡Ò‚ •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù üÊË ‚È„U‹ •ÊÒ⁄U üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U Á»§⁄U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ªÿ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÿ„U øøʸ ∑§Ë Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚Ë≈U «UË-Á‹Á◊≈U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ πà◊ „UÙ ªÿË „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ÖflÊߟ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, •äÿˇÊ ’ŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ «UË-Á‹Á◊≈U‡ÊŸ ∑§Ê»§Ë ÁŒŸ ¬„U‹ ‚ ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ‚’ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÿ ‚Ë≈¥U πà◊ „UÙ ªÿË „Ò¥U, Á⁄U¡fl¸‡ÊŸ πà◊ „UÙ ªÿÊ, ‚Ë≈U ∑§Ê SflM§¬ πà◊ „UÙ ªÿÊ– ÄÿÊ ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë ßŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ∑§÷Ë „UÊ©U‚ ÿÊ ‚Ò¥≈˛U‹ „UÊ‹ ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ ÿ ‹Ùª „U◊‚ ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹– wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¡’ ’„U‚ ø‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË, ◊Ò¥ „UÊ©U‚ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, Ã’ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬‚ Á◊‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ Á∑§‚ Á‚‹Á‚‹ ◊¥ •ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ∑ȧ¿U ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ê fl‹∑§◊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •Êßÿ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „Ò¥U–

225 üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ¡’ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù üÊË •ª¸‹ ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ªÿ, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ fl •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, fl ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§ ‚ÊÕ Õ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ê ©U‚Ë ÁŒŸ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, „U◊Ê⁄UÊ üÊË ‚È„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ‚ ©U‚Ë ÁŒŸ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ „ÈU•Ê– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ ‹Ÿ-ŒŸ ÿÊ ‹Ê‹ø ŒŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ •¬Ÿ ’ÿÊŸ ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‚È’„U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄UË ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà ‚ÈŸ ‹ËÁ¡∞– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ ‹Ùª ¬Ê≈U˸ ÖflÊߟ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U •äÿˇÊ ’ŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ë ÄÿÊ ⁄UÊÿ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ߟ‚ ÄÿÊ ∑§„UÊ ¡Êÿ? ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ¿UÁfl •ë¿UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— „U◊ •Ê¬‚ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚È’„U üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ∑§Ê»§Ë Œ⁄U „UÙ ªÿË ÕË ß‚Á‹∞ •Ê¬ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ¬Êÿ– •Ê¬Ÿ ‚È’„U ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë Á∑§ ∞‚-∞‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¡flÊ’ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ Ÿê’⁄U ¬Í⁄‘U „UÙ ªÿ „Ò¥U, •’ •Êfl‡ÿ∑§ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ πÈŒ •¬Ÿ ’ÿÊŸ ◊¥ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë, ∆UË∑§ ’Êà „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¢Ÿ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ¿UÁfl •ë¿UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ë ¿UÁfl •ë¿UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿê’⁄U ÷Ë ¬Í⁄‘U „UÙ ªÿ „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, œãÿflÊŒ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë, ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬‚ Á‚»¸§ ßÃŸÊ „UË ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ¡’ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U •Êÿ Ã’ ‚È„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ÷Ë Õ– ¡’ •Ê¬ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚Ê…∏U ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬„È¢Uø, ÿ„UÊ¢ ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù Á‹Áπà ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË „ÒU, ¡Ù ‚’ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ „ÒU—©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ÃËŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ– üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ê ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ¬„U‹ ‚ „UË ÕÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl ◊Òê’⁄U •Ê»§ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊Ò¥≈U „Ò¥U– •Ê¬Ÿ Á»§⁄U ©UŸ‚ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ÄÿÙ¥ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ? fl ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ‹ª÷ª ‚Ê…∏U ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡ •Êÿ, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ÃËŸÙ¥ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬Á⁄Uøÿ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ– ¡’ fl ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Êÿ, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà ‚È„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ‚ „ÈU߸? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ »§Ê◊¸Á‹≈UË ∑§ Ãı⁄U ¬⁄U ‚’‚ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UflÊÿÊ Á¡‚◊¥ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ÷Ë Á‹ÿÊ– fl„UÊ¢ ÃËŸ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ’Ò∆U Õ– ©U‚◊¥ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ÷Ë „U◊Ê⁄UË ’ª‹ ◊¥ ’Ò∆U Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ fl ÃËŸÙ¥ √ÿÁÄà ¬„U‹ ‚ fl„UÊ¢ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÷Ë ‹ªË „ÈU߸ ÕË– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, ‹ªË „ÈU߸ ÕË– •Ê¬ ÁŒÀ‹Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‚ fl⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄UflÊ ‹ËÁ¡∞, •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „UÙ ¡ÊÿªÊ– „U◊¥ ÄÿÊ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÒU, ©Uã„UË¥ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ „U◊¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ©UŸ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË

226 •Êª ’…∏U ªÿË ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ê⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË ¬Ë¿U ⁄U„U ªÿË ÕË– „U◊Ÿ øÒ∑§ ¬ÙS≈U ¬⁄U ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ê ÉÊ⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ „ÒU, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÁŒÀ‹Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‚ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ßÃŸÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Á∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UË¥ •ª‹-’ª‹ ◊¥ ⁄U„UÃ „Ò¥U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ÁŒÀ‹Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U, ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‚ÙøÊ Á∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ •ÊÒ⁄U S≈U≈U˜‚ ‚ ÷Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „U٪ʖ üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚Ê…∏U ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ªÿ– ÄÿÊ ©U‚‚ ¬Ífl¸ ∑§÷Ë •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Ÿ„UË¥, ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ‚Ê…∏U ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡ ªÿ, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚È’„U „UË ’Êà „ÈU߸– ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ë •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– fl„U ßÃŸÊ •ÊÚ«U ≈UÊß◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù »§ÙŸ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ©UÁøà Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‚È’„U „UË ’Êà ∑§Ë– ∞∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U ’„ÈUà ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ ’Êà „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ ◊Ò¥ ◊Êäÿ◊ ÕÊ, ÃÙ fl „U◊¥ ‚ÊÕ ‹∑§⁄U ¡ÊÃ– ¡Ò‚ ß‚◊¥ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU– fl„U Ÿ „U◊¥ ‹∑§⁄U ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊‚ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ– •’ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Á¬Äø⁄U ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •Ê ªÿ– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U Ÿ „UË ßŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ Á◊‹ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË ßŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà ∑§Ë– „U◊Ÿ ≈UËflË ¬⁄U ¡Ù ŒπÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– fl„U •‹ª ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU, •Ê¬ ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ¡’ fl„UÊ¢ ª∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚È’„U ◊¥ •Ê¬‚ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹U ¡Ë Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ŒÈ’Ê⁄UÊ ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ÿÊ ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë ÕË– ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù Œ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¡ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹, ¡Ò‚ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ Á¡‚ ◊ÊL§Áà ¡Ÿ ∑§Ê⁄U ‚ fl ‹Ùª ª∞, ¡Ò‚Ê fl ‹Ùª ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©U‚ ¬⁄U ∑§Ê‹Ê ‡ÊˇÊÊ ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚◊¥ ‚ ∑ȧ¿U ÁŒπ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡ÊŸ ‚ ¬Ífl¸, fl ‹Ùª ~.xÆ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚-¬Ê‚ fl„UÊ¢ ª∞, ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ ÄÿÊ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê¬‚ ‚¢¬∑¸§ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ÿÊ •Ê¬‚ ∑§Ù߸ •ŸÈ⁄UÙœ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÷Ë øÁ‹∞, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Œflãº˝ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ß‚ Œπ ‹¥ Á∑§ ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬ ∑§ÚÊ‹ ∑§Ù Á«U≈UÄ≈U ∑§⁄UÊ ‹¥, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– fl„U »§ÙŸ •ª¸‹ ∑§Ë •Ê⁄U ‚ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ ‚È„‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ë •Ê⁄U ‚ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ fl„U •ãÿ Á∑§‚Ë ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ •ı⁄U ‚È„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∞∑§ „UË »§ÙŸ ßSÃ◊Ê‹ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ, ∞∑§ „UË ◊Ù’Êß‹ ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÃ Õ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê¬∑§ ‹Òá«U‹Êߟ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ∑§Ê‹ ∑§Ë ÿÊ ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊⁄‘U ÷ÃË¡ ∑§ ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ∑§Ê‹ ∑§Ë ÕË– ◊Ò¥Ÿ øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ Á‹π∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– fl„U ∑§Ê‹ •ÊÚ«U ≈UÊß◊ ◊¥, ⁄UÊÁòÊ v.y| ’¡ ∑§Ë ªÿË– ◊⁄‘U ÷ÃË¡ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ fl„U ‚Ù ª∞ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ß‚ ‚◊ÿ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU–

227 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‡ÊÈM§ ◊¥, ¡’ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÿ„U ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê∞ Õ Á∑§ Á«UÁ‹Á◊≈U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ê ˇÊòÊ ª«∏U’«∏U „UÙ ªÿÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ß‚Á‹∞ ©UŸ∑§Ù •¬ŸË ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ •äÿˇÊ ’ŸÊß∞ ÿÊ ¡Ù ÷Ë ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§⁄UŸ •Ê∞ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •ÊÒ⁄U ÷Ë ŒÙ ‹Ùª „Ò¥U, ¡Ò‚Ê •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ, ¡’ fl ‹Ùª ‚È’„U •Ê¬∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê∞ Õ ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§Ù ÄÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ŒπÊ ÕÊ? ß‚∑§Ê •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÄÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ‚’Íà „ÒU, ¡Ò‚ Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù •ÊÃ „ÈU∞ ŒπÊ „UÙ, ¡Ò‚ •Ê¬∑§Ê ÷ÃË¡Ê ÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ •ãÿ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „UÊ¢, fl„UÊ¢ ◊⁄UÊ ÷ÃË¡Ê ÕÊ, ©U‚Ÿ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U •ãÿ Ÿı∑§⁄U flªÒ⁄U„U Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl ©UŸ∑§Ù ∑Ò§‚ ¬„UøÊŸ ¬ÊÃ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •ãÿ ’„ÈUà ‚ ‹Ùª •ÊÃ ⁄U„UÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÿ ∞◊¬Ë ‚Ê„U’ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U– „UÊ¢, ◊⁄UÊ ÷ÃË¡Ê ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬„UøÊŸ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©U‚Ÿ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ŒπÊ ÕÊ, Á»§⁄U ‚È’„U ÷Ë ŒπÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ªÊ«∏UË ø‹Ê∑§⁄U fl„UË ßŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U Ã∑§ ‹ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— fl ‹Ùª Á∑§‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ •Ê∞ Õ, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ S≈UÊ»§, •Ê¬∑§ ÷ÃË¡ ÿÊ «˛UÊßfl⁄U Á¡‚∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ∑§Ë ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU, Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ Ÿê’⁄U flªÒ⁄U„U ŸÙ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥, „U◊Ÿ Ÿê’⁄U ŸÙ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U ‚»§Œ ⁄¢Uª ∑§Ë ◊ÊL§Áà ∑§Ê⁄U ÕË– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ê ÷ÃË¡Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ÕÊ, ¡Ù •Ê¬∑§Ù fl„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ‹ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Ÿ„UË¥, ∑§Ù߸ «˛UÊßfl⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ÷ÃË¡ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU, «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢ ÕÊ– fl„U ÃÙ ⁄UÊà ◊¥ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •ë¿UÊ, «˛UÊßfl⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚È’„U ◊¥ •ÕʸØ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ê¬∑§Ê ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ∑§Ê¢≈ÒUÄ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê? •Ê¬‚ Á»§⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢¬∑¸§ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚ÊœÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑§ÊÚ‹ ∑§Ê Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ÁŸ∑§‹flÊ∑§⁄U Œπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥– ◊⁄UË ©UŸ‚ ’Êà „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË– ∑§fl‹ ◊⁄‘U ÷ÃË¡ ‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸, ©UŸ‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ fl„U ©U¬‹éœ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊ȤÊ ⁄UÊà ◊¥ „UË ßŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ „UÊfl-÷Êfl ‚ ‚¢Œ„U „UÙ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ÿ ‹Ùª ∞◊Ê©Uá≈U-∞◊Ê©Uá≈U ÁøÀ‹Ê ⁄U„U Õ, ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ ◊ȤÊ ‡Ê∑§ „UÙ ªÿÊ, ◊ȤÊ •ãŒ⁄U ‚ ¬⁄‘U‡ÊÊŸË ◊„U‚Í‚ „UÙŸ ‹ªË ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ ߟ øË¡Ù¥ ∑§Ë •ÊŒÃ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë ‡ÊÄ‹-‚Í⁄Uà Œπ∑§⁄U, Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ÿ ‹Ùª ’ÊÃøËà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ◊ȤÊ •ãŒ⁄U ‚ ¬⁄‘U‡ÊÊŸË „UÙŸ ‹ªË ÕË– •ª⁄U •Ê¬ ≈UÊßÁ◊¢ª Œπ ‹¥ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ◊ÈÁ‡∑§‹ ‚ ¬Ê¢ø-‚Êà Á◊Ÿ≈U „UË fl„UÊ¢ L§∑§Ê ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •ª⁄U ø‹ŸÊ „UÙ ÃÙ ø‹Ù, Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ∑§Ù߸ ¡’Œ¸SÃË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „UÊ¢, •Ê¬∑§Ë ÿ„U ’Êà ÃÙ flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡, ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ÷Ë •Ê߸ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ê fl’¸Á≈U◊ ÷Ë ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „ÒU– •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ Á∑§ÃŸË Œ⁄U Ã∑§ ⁄U„U? ⁄UÊà vw.xÆ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ Á∑§ÃŸË Œ⁄U Ã∑§ ⁄U„U? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊ÈÁ‡∑§‹ ‚ ¬Ê¢ø ‚ ‹∑§⁄U ‚Êà ÿÊ •Ê∆U Á◊Ÿ≈U Ã∑§ ⁄U„UÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ’„ÈUà flÁ⁄Uc∆U ⁄UÊ¡ŸÃÊ „Ò¥U, „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÷Ë •ë¿U Á◊òÊ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ò‚Ê ’ÃÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ÿ ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ∑§Ë »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ ¡Ù ŒπÊ, ¡Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ, ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊ ‹Ùª ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ∞∑§ Ã⁄U»§ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÿ„U ’Êà ‚„UË ÷Ë „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ Á∑§‚Ë ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ŸÃÊ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ÷Ë ¬„U‹ ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞ „Ò¥U–

228 ¡„UÊ¢ ∞‚ ÃÊÀ‹È∑§Êà „UÙÃ „Ò¥U, fl„UÊ¢ ÄÿÊ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ⁄UÊà vw ÿÊ vw.xÆ ’¡, Œ⁄U ⁄UÊà ◊¥, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ¡’ ¬Í⁄UÊ Œ‡Ê ◊¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ŒŸ ◊¥ ÿ„U øøʸ ‡ÊÈM§ „UÙ ªÿË ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ∑ȧ¿U ÁŒŸÙ¥ ‚ ÿ„U ’Ê¡Ê⁄U ÷Ë ª◊¸ ÕÊ—¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê, πÊ‚∑§⁄U ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁÃ∑§ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¬˝◊Èπ ◊ÈgÊ fl„UË ÕÊ– •ª⁄U ∑§„UË¥ ‹Ùª •ÊŸÊ-¡ÊŸÊ ∑§⁄UÃ ⁄U„UÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ fl •Áœ∑§ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ÷Ë ∑§„UË¥ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬, ¡Ù ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U, Œ⁄U ⁄UÊà ◊¥ „UflÊ߸ ø嬋 ¬„UŸ∑§⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹ ª∞? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— øÍ¢Á∑§ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ◊Ȥʂ ¬„U‹ Á◊‹ øÈ∑§ Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ◊Ȥʂ ◊⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U Á◊‹∑§⁄U Á⁄UÄflS≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ©UŸ∑§ Á⁄UÄflS≈U ¬⁄U ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ◊Ò¥ ∑§Ù߸ ⁄ÒUá«U◊ fl„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ◊Ò¥ •¬Ÿ •Ê¬ Sfl× fl„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊ȤÊ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ, ◊Ȥʂ Á⁄UÄflÒS≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ fl ‹Ùª vw.xÆ ’¡ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù •Ê∞¢ª– ◊⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ÃÊ‹Ê ’¢Œ ÕÊ, •Ê¬ ¬Ë‚Ë•Ê⁄U ‚ ÁŒπflÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ÿ ‹Ùª ◊⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞ Õ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà ¬⁄U ‚¢Œ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U, ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ ∑§fl‹ ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§fl‹ ©U‚∑§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Œ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– •Ê¬ ß‚ ¬Ë‚Ë•Ê⁄U ‚ flÒ⁄UË»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê∞ ÿÊ ¬„U‹ ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ù ◊ÊŸ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ª∞ Õ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ Á»§⁄U •Ê¬ ÷Ë ©UÃŸË ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹ ª∞, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ÿ„U ’Êà ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ÿ„U ¬˝‡Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∞∑§ Á◊òÊ, ∞∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÿ„U ∞∑§ ∞Ÿ≈˛ÒU¬◊¥≈U ÕÊ– ©U‚ ∞Ÿ≈˛ÒU¬◊¥≈U ◊¥ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ »¢§‚Ê Á‹ÿÊ– ÿ„U ◊⁄UË ÷‹◊Ÿ‚Ê„Uà ⁄U„UË Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ ªÿÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊Ÿ ¡’ »È§≈U¡ ŒπÊ ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¢ ÷Ë Á∑§‚Ë ¡ª„U ÿ„U ‡ÊéŒ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞ Õ, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ÿ„UÊ¢ •ÊÿÊ– ’ÁÀ∑§ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ÿ„UË ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞– ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’Êà »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ ÿ„U „ÒU, Á¡‚ „U◊ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ÁŒπÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ •Ê∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË, ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ø‹Ù ÷Ê߸, ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ã „Ò¥U– •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ ∞◊Ê©Uá≈U flªÒ⁄U„U ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë ÕË, flÙ≈U ŒŸ ∑§Ë ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë ÕË, •Ê¬ ∑§fl‹ ÿ„UË ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ø‹∑§⁄U •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù– ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ◊Ò¥ Á„UãŒË ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U •ÊÒ⁄U ’Ê«UË ‹Ò¥Çfl¡ ‚ ◊Ò¥ ‚◊¤Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U, ©U‚ flÄà •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ø‹Ù ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù, ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ø‹Ù, Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ◊à ø‹Ê, ∑§Ù߸ ¡’Œ¸SÃË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§Ù „UÊÕ ¬∑§«∏U∑§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ– •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ø‹Ù, ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ „Í¢U, ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ø‹Ù– ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ Ÿ„UË¥-Ÿ„UË¥, ∞‚Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊⁄UÊ ¬˝‡Ÿ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑§„UÊ¢ ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U Õ, ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊Ò¥Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ Á◊‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡ÊŸÊ ÕÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl„U ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§ ◊Ê◊‹ ŒπÃ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •Ê¬Ÿ ¡Ù ’Êà ∑§„U ŒË ©U‚ Á⁄U¬Ë≈U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ⁄UÊà vw.xÆ ’¡ •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù, •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù, ∞◊Ê©Uá≈U ∑§Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê Ãÿ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ, ∞∑§ Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ Ãÿ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ, øÊ„U •äÿˇÊ ’ŸÊŸÊ „UÙ ÿÊ ¡Ù ÷Ë ◊Ê◊‹Ê „UÙ fl„U Ãÿ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– ◊Ò¥ •ª⁄U •Ê¬ŸË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ ‚∑˝§≈U⁄UË ∑§ ¬Ê‚ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ⁄UÊà vw ÿÊ vw.xÆ ’¡ ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U ÃÙ ¬„U‹ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U∑§ ⁄UπÍ¢ªÊ ÿÊ ∞åflÊߢ≈U◊¥≈U ‹∑§⁄U ⁄UπÍ¢ªÊ, fl„U √ÿÁÄà ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÁŒÀ‹Ë ◊¥ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, Á◊‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ‚Ù ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÿÊ ¡ª ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, Œ⁄U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù, ⁄UÊà vw ’¡ fl„UÊ¢ ¡Ê∑§⁄U ’Êà „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥—ßÃŸË ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ë ©UŸ‚ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË Ã÷Ë ◊Ò¥ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ßß ÷⁄UÙ‚ ‚ ‹ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U– •ª⁄U „U◊¥ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù •¬Ÿ øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ ‚ Œ⁄U ⁄UÊà ◊¥ Á∑§‚Ë ‚ Á◊‹ÊŸÊ „UÙ ÃÙ ©UŸ‚ ¬„U‹ ¬Í¿¥Uª Á∑§ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ

229 •fl‹’‹ „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ „U◊ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ÷¡ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, •ãÿÕÊ •Ê¬ ßß ∑§Ê¢Á»§«¥U‚ ‚ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ø‹Ù ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– ÿ„UË ◊⁄UÊ ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊⁄UË ÿ„U ◊¢‡ÊÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË Á∑§ •÷Ë ÃÈ⁄¢Uà ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– •ª⁄U ◊⁄‘U ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ÿ„U ◊¢‡ÊÊ „UÙÃË ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Á◊‹Ê∑§⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ Ãÿ ∑§⁄U ŒÃÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‹∑§⁄U •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÃÙ ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊⁄UÊ •÷Ë ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ ∑§‹ ø‹Ù ÿÊ ∑§÷Ë ÷Ë ø‹Ù, ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù– •ª⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ •÷Ë ø‹Ÿ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§„UË „UÙÃË ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚ÊÕ ‹∑§⁄U ªÿÊ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥– •ª⁄U ◊⁄UÊ ◊∑§‚Œ ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ •÷Ë •ÕʸØ ÃÈ⁄¢Uà ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ∞∑§ ’¡ ø‹Ù, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‹∑§⁄U fl„UÊ¢ ªÿÊ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊⁄‘U ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ∞∑§ •ãÿ ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU– •Ê¬Ÿ ∞∑§ ’Êà ∑§„UË ¡Ù »Í§≈U¡ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ◊È⁄ÒUŸÊ ÿÊ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§ •äÿˇÊ ’Ÿ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U ÿÊ Á≈U∑§≈U ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ∑ȧ¿U L§¬∞ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ë ÷Ë ¡M§⁄Uà „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU, Á¡‚∑§ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ ÿ„U ‚’ ’Êà ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê߸ •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚◊¥ ∞∑§ ∞Ÿ≈˛ÒU¬◊¥≈U ÷Ë ÕÊ, ¡Ò‚Ê •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU-‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚ flÄà Œ‡Ê ◊¥ ÿÊ ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁÃôÊÙ¥ ◊¥ ÿ„U ‚flÊ‹ ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚∑§Ù ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ê Á≈U∑§≈U Á◊‹ªÊ, ∑§ıŸ •äÿˇÊ ’ŸªÊ– ©U‚ flÄà ÿ„U øøʸ ø‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ Á∑§œ⁄U flÙ≈U ŒªÊ– •Ê¬ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥, ‚÷Ë ‚Ê¢‚Œ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ‚÷Ë ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁà ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •ÊÒ⁄U ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ÁŒŸ ◊¥ ◊ÈgÊ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚ Á≈U∑§≈U Á◊‹Ÿ flÊ‹Ê „ÒU– ◊ÈgÊ ßœ⁄U ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ Á∑§œ⁄U flÙ≈U «UÊ‹ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, flÙ≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UË „ÒU– ¡Ù »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, fl„U ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ∞∑§ ‚flÊ‹ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ •÷Ë ø‹Ù, ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË, •÷Ë ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË, ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË ÿÊ ø¢Œ Á◊Ÿ≈U „Ò¥U, ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U „ÒU– ßÃŸÊ ∑¢§çÿÍ¡Ÿ Ÿ „UÙ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ¡Ÿ⁄U‹ ‚∑˝§≈U⁄UË „Ò¥U, ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§ ¬˝÷Ê⁄UË „Ò¢– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬ ŒπÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ Œ‹ ’Œ‹ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ÿÊ Á≈U∑§≈U ‹ŸÊ ÿÊ •äÿˇÊ ¬Œ ŒŸÊ ÿÊ øÈŸÊfl ◊¥ ‹«∏UÊŸÊ, ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ¡Ù ¬Ò‚Ê πø¸ „UÙªÊ, ¡Ù ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, fl„U ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË, •Ê¬ ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹Ù, „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê◊Ÿ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ßÃŸÊ ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê ⁄U„UÊ „UÙªÊ •Ê¬∑§ ÁŒ◊ʪ ◊¥, ∑Ò§‚ •Ê ¡Ê∞ªÊ, •ª⁄U Ÿß¸ ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÃÙ ’ÃÊ∞¢– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊ ©U‚Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ¬„U‹ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§ ©UûÊ⁄U ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§ ’Ρ ÷Í·áÊ ‡Ê⁄UáÊ Á‚¢„U „U◊Ê⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ¡Êߟ Á∑§ÿ Õ, ÷Ê⁄UÃËÿ ¡ŸÃÊ ¬Ê≈U˸ ¿UÙ«∏U∑§⁄U •Ê∞ Õ– •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¡Ò‚ ’Ρ ÷Í·áÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ê Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ÷Ë flÒ‚ „UË Ãÿ ∑§⁄UÊ Œ¥– ßÃŸË ‚Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË– ß‚∑§Ê ◊∑§‚Œ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ •÷Ë ø‹Ù ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË, ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ‚Ê…∏U ’Ê⁄U„U ’¡– „U◊Ÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù »§ÙŸ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ ÕÊ, „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ◊∑§‚Œ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‚È’„U ø‹ŸÊ, •Ê◊Ÿ- ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– •ª⁄U „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ◊∑§‚Œ ÿ„U „UÙÃÊ flÙ≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ „U◊ ª∞ „UÙÃ ©UŸ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢, ÃÙ ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ÷Ë „U◊ ∑§„UÃ Á∑§ •Ê¬ flÙ≈U ŒÙª ¬ˇÊ ◊¥ ÿÊ ∞é‚¥≈U „UÙ ¡Ê•Êª– ∞‚Ë ’Êà „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– ÿ„U •Ê¬ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU fl„U „U◊ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§„¥Uª, „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ flÙ≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU– „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù •÷Ë »È§≈U¡ ÁŒπÊÃ „Ò¥U– „U◊ •äÿˇÊ ¡Ë ‚ Á⁄UÄflS≈U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª ÁŒπÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞– Á»§⁄U ’Êà •Ê ¡Ê∞ªË Á∑§ ÄÿÊ ∑§„UÊ– ©U‚◊¥ ∞∑§ ‚flÊ‹ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ Á∑§‚ ’Êà ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ÿ ’ÃÊ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ Á∑§‚ flÊSÃ ∑§„UÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊¥ ∞‚Ê ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á„UãŒË ◊¥ ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÄÿÊ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U, •¢ª˝¡Ë ◊¥ ∞∑§ ‡ÊéŒ ¬‚ȸ∞‡ÊŸ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ¬⁄USÿÍ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ø‹Ù ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ „ÒU, •÷Ë ø‹Ù– fl„U ¬‚ȸ∞‡ÊŸ ÄÿÙ¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ‚flÊ‹ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U–

üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊ ÁŒÿÊ– Because they wanted to join my party. For that reason I said it. If you can see the footage, „U◊Ÿ •¬ŸË Ã⁄U»§ ‚ •◊Ê©¢U≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ– ßã„UË¥ ∑§ ∞∑§ ∞◊¬Ë Ÿ, ∑ȧ‹SÃ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ What about the amount. You just see •ª⁄U •¬ŸË Ã⁄U»§ ‚ •Ê»§⁄U Á∑§∞ „UÙ¥ ÃÙ ....

230 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ, fl„U „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ÁŒπÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷Ë ÁŒπÊÃ „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊ ÃÙ Œπ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ Œπ ‹¥– ßÃŸË ’Ê⁄U øÒŸ‹ flÊ‹Ù¥ Ÿ ÁŒπÊÿÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ŒπÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •÷Ë ø‹Ù, •÷Ë •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚◊¥ ‚È’„U ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ◊∑§‚Œ ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ •÷Ë ø‹Ù– „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ÿ„U ◊∑§‚Œ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ •÷Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ‚Ê…∏U vw ’¡ ø‹Ù, •÷Ë ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Salim, he is not denying that. ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •÷Ë ø‹Ù ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU, ‚È’„U ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË– ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ø‹Ù, ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ∞∑§ ’Êà ’ÃÊ∞¢ ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’, ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê¬ ‹Êÿ⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ∑§Ù‹∑§ÊÃÊ ◊¥? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ò¥ ∑§÷Ë ‹Êÿ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UÊ, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‹ÊÚ ¬…∏UË „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥ ‹ÊÚ ¬…∏UÊÃÊ „Í¢U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ◊∑§‚Œ ÿ„U „UÙÃÊ Á∑§ •÷Ë ø‹Ù, ÃÙ ¡’ „U◊ ø‹Ÿ ‹ª, ߟ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ÃÙ „U◊ ßã„¥U ‹∑§⁄U ø‹Ã ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹Ã– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ¡ÊŸ ‚ ◊ŸÊ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ∑§ıŸ ◊ŸÊ Á∑§∞ „ÒU¢? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ◊ê’‚¸ Ÿ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬ Œπ ‹¥– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ◊ŸÊ Á∑§ÿÊ, „U◊ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê∞¢ª– fl„U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •÷Ë ø‹Ù– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– •ª⁄U „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „UÙ-•ÊÒ⁄U •÷Ë •Ê¬ ø‹Ù, •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ¡ÊŸ ‚ ◊ŸÊ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „UÙ-•ª⁄U ∞‚Ê „UÙ ÃÙ „U◊‚ ‚flÊ‹ ¬ÍÁ¿U∞– (flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸–) ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡⁄UÊ »§ÊS≈U ∑§⁄U Œ¥, ¡’ fl„U ŒÊÁπ‹ „UÙ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ÁŒπÊ∞¢– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ’Êà ‡ÊÈM§ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, fl„U ÁŒπÊ∞¢– ∑§◊≈UË ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË ÿ„U ÷Ë Œ⁄UÅflÊSà „ÒU Á∑§ øÒŸ‹ flÊ‹Ù¥ ∑§Ù •ÊœÊ ‚ø ÁŒπÊŸ ¬⁄U ’¢ÁŒ‡Ê „UÙŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ê ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ „ÒU, ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê߸– (flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸–) ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •Ê¬∑§ ◊È¢„U ‚, øÍ¢Á∑§ ¡Ù •Ê¡ •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ø‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞ ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let us see that footage. (flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸–)

231 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U ◊Ê∑¸§ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ, flÊß‚ ∞¢«U flËÁ«UÿÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ fl„U ≈˛UÊ¢ÁS∑˝§å≈U „ÒU– fl„U ◊Ò¥ ¬…∏U∑§⁄U ‚ÈŸÊ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– (flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸–) ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚◊¥ „ÒU–

SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: I am not denying it. „U◊ Á«UŸÊ߸ ÃÙ ∑§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á¡‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà Ÿ „UÙ, ÃÙ •Ê¬ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§Ê¢»§ËÁ«¢U‚ ◊¥ ’Ù‹¥ª– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊⁄UË ’Êà „ÈU߸ „UË Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ◊¥ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U flÊÿ‚ ◊Ê∑¸§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– „U◊¥ ÁS∑˝§å≈U Œ Œ¥, „U◊ ¬…∏U∑§⁄U ‚ÈŸÊÃ „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë, •Ê¬Ÿ ÁS∑˝§å≈U ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU,

“What is the problem in it? It has already been discussed. It was not discussed over phone. Talks are held face to face. You will get the money there. Let us move now.” üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÿ„U ‚’ ©U‚Ë ∑§Ë „ÒU, ÿ„U „U◊Ê⁄UË ≈˛UÊ¢ÁS∑˝§å≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U •Ê¬∑§ ŸÊ◊ ‚ „ÒU–

SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: This is not correct. ¡Ù •Ê¬ ≈˛UÊ¢ÁS∑˝§å≈U ¬…∏U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚‚ ß‚ Á◊‹Ê ‹¥– ß‚ Á»§⁄U Œπ ‹¥– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U •ÊÁπ⁄U ◊¥ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬ Œπ ‹¥, fl„U ‚„UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ë ≈˛UÊ¢ÁS∑˝§å≈U ◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU,

“Do not worry. We are with you.” ß‚◊¥ ¬⁄‘U‡ÊÊŸË ∑§Ë ÄÿÊ ’Êà „ÒU, ’Êà „UÙ øÈ∑§Ë „ÒU »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U, ¡Ù ’Êà „ÈU߸ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË– ’Êà ÃÙ •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙÃË „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§Ë „ÈU߸ ÃÙ ¬Ò‚Ê fl„UË¥ Á◊‹ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– •’ ø‹ŸÊ „U٪ʖ •Ê¬∑§Ù Ã∑§‹Ë»§ ŒË, Á»§⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ’Ëø ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •◊Ê©¢U≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà ÃÙ „U◊Ÿ ∑§Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà ∑§Ë „ÒU, •Ê¢∑§«∏UÙ¥ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§„UŸÊ „UÙªÊ ÃÙ ∑§„UŸÊ, Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªÊ ÃÙ Ÿ ∑§„UŸÊ– •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– Á»§⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊¥ ‚◊ÿ Œ¥, ÁfløÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¬«∏UÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË, Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªÊ ÃÙ Ÿ ∑§„¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÿÊŸË ∑§Ù߸ ¡’Œ¸SÃË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– ß‚◊¥ ¬⁄‘U‡ÊÊŸË ÄÿÊ „ÒU– „U◊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞ „Ò¥U– ßÃŸË Œ⁄U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– •Ê¬∑§Ë »§Ë‚ ÄÿÊ „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ù •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬‚¢Œ „UÙªÊ ÃÙ fl„UË¥ „UÙªÊ, ’ÃÊ ŒŸÊ– ’Êà ÃÙ •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ „ÒU, „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ÿ„U •Ê¬Ÿ ¬Ê¢ø-‚Êà ’Ê⁄U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ø‹Ù, •÷Ë ø‹Ù– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ßÃŸË Œ⁄U „UÙ ªß¸, Œ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU–

232 üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ø‹Ÿ ∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Á∑§ •÷Ë ø‹Ù– ÿ„U „UÙÃÊ ÃÙ ¡’ „U◊ ©U∆U∑§⁄U ø‹Ÿ ‹ª ÃÙ ÿ„U ∑§„UÃ Á∑§ ø‹Ù „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á»§⁄U ÄÿÊ „ÒU? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÿ„U ŒÁπ∞ ÃÙ ∑§„UË¥ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „UÙ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U „ÒU, ÁS∑˝§å≈U ◊¥ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÁS∑˝§å≈U ¿UÙÁ«∏U∞, ß‚◊¥ Œπ ‹¥, Á∑§ÃŸÊ ‚„UË „ÒU Á∑§ÃŸÊ ª‹Ã „ÒU– ß‚∑§Ë •ÊÁ⁄U¡Ÿ‹ Œπ ‹¥, ©U‚◊¥ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „UÙ Á∑§ ø‹Ù– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ„U ’„U‚ ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‚flÊ‹ ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ÄÿÊ ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ù •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚∑§Ê ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ŸÊÕ¸ ∞flãÿÍ ◊¥, ‚Ê©UÕ ∞flãÿÍ ◊¥ ’Ë¡¬Ë •ÊÒ⁄U •ãÿ ¬Ê≈U˸¡ ∑§ ‹Ùª ¡Ù ⁄U„UÃ „Ò¥U, fl„UË¥ ÉÊÍ◊ÃÊ ⁄U„UÃÊ „ÒU– ∞‚ •ÊÒ⁄U ÷Ë ‹Ùª „Ò¥U, ‚È„ÒU‹ ∞∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ¡Ù ÉÊÍ◊ÃÊ-Á»§⁄UÃÊ ⁄U„UÃÊ „ÒU, Á¡‚ „U◊ ŸÊ«∏UÊ-‚Ê«∏UÊ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬ ©U‚∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ– fl„U •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ •Êÿ– ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ê ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù ©U‚Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ∑§Ù Á‹Áπà M§¬ ◊¥ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ’ÊŒ ◊¥ „U◊ ©U‚‚ ¬Í¿¥Uª ÷Ë Á∑§ ©U‚Ÿ ¡’ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∞∑§ •ãÿ flÁ⁄Uc∆U ‚Ê¢‚Œ ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl„U ‚ıŒ-’Ê¡Ë ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ Áª⁄UÊŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ÃÙ ©U‚Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ∑§Ê◊ „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U, ÿ„U Á¡ê◊ŒÊ⁄UË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ê‚ „ÒU, •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ‚¢¬∑¸§ ∑§⁄UÙ– ∞∑§Œ◊ ’Êà ‚Ê»§ „ÒU, ÿ„U „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ÿ„U ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§ πà ◊¥ ‚ ◊Ò¥ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U-•÷Ë ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U Á◊‹Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÙ-©U‚◊¥ ©U‚Ÿ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ– ß‚∑§Ë ’Êà „U◊ ‚ø Ÿ„UË¥ ◊ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù Á‹πÊ „ÒU fl„U ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •Ê¬ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ¡Á⁄Uÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ‚¢¬∑¸§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „UÙ– ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ù •ª⁄U ◊Ò¥ ◊ÊŸ ‹ÃÊ „Í¢U, ∑§Ù߸ Á‹π Œ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ◊ÊŸ ‹ÃÊ „Í¢ ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– ß‚ËÁ‹∞ „U◊ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÿ„U ’Ê¡Ê⁄U ◊¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§ ¡Á⁄Uÿ •Ê¬ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „UÙ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬„U‹Ê ‚flÊ‹ ÿ„U ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ø‹∑§⁄U ’Ù‹Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ •Ê¬ ø‹ ‹Ù, ’Êà •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– •ª⁄U ∑§◊ ‚ ∑§◊ ßÃŸÊ ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ‚Ê¢‚Œ „UÙ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ê ‚Ê¢‚Œ „UÙ, fl„U ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UªÊ Á∑§ ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ ŒÃ „Ò¥U– ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ •ª⁄U „U◊ ߟ∑§Ë ’Êà ◊ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ÿ„U ‚ø ÷Ë „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ¤ÊÍ∆U ÷Ë „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬ ÃÙ ’Ê‹ ∑§Ë πÊ‹ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ∞∑§ ’Êà ’ÃÊ•Ê, „U◊ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ◊Òê’⁄U „Ò¥U, I am also the General Secretary of the Party. •Ê¡ Ã∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ™§¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ŒÊª Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ¡Ù ’Êà ∑§„U ŒÃ „Ò¥U ©U‚ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ⁄UÊc≈˛UËÿ •äÿˇÊ ¡Ë ‚ ‹∑§⁄U... ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚◊¥ ÷Ë ŒÊª Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ-•Ê¬ ßß ∑§ÊÁ㻧«¥U‚ ‚ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ? ∑§ÊÁ㻧«¥U‚ ‚ ÄÿÊ, I am a senior Member of the Party and I have got full confidence. „U◊¥ ¬Í⁄UÊ ∑§ÊÁ㻧«¥U‚ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ¡Ù ’Êà ∑§„¥Uª •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ∑§Ù߸ ª‹Ã ∑§Ê◊ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÃÙ ∑§„U Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„U Õ– •Ê¬Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ ÿ ¡Êߟ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •Ê ªÿË-„U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù ªÙ¥«UÊ ∑§ ∞◊¬Ë ’Ρ ÷Í·áÊ ‡Ê⁄UáÊ Á‚¢„U Ÿ ŒÙ ÁŒŸ ¬„U‹ ÷Ê¡¬Ê ¿UÙ«∏U∑§⁄U ¡Êߟ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ë Ã⁄U„U „U◊¥ ÷Ë ¡Êߟ ∑§⁄UflÊ ŒËÁ¡∞ •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊¥ •äÿˇÊ ’ŸflÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– „U◊¥ ∑§ÊÁ㻧«¥U‚ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ’Êà ∑§⁄‘¥Uª-∑§Ù߸ flÙ≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ ÃÙ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ–

233 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚Ë ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ øÒŸ‹ ◊¥ ¡’ ÿ„U ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ, ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ⁄UÊc≈˛UËÿ ◊„UÊ‚Áøfl •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ ªÿÊ, ÃÙ „U◊Ÿ ¡Ù ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ◊¥ ŒπÊ, ÿ„UÊ¢ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ øÍ¢Á∑§ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ∞∑§ Œ‹ ‚ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U Œ‹ ◊¥ flÙ≈U ∑§ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ •Ê ⁄U„U Õ •ÊÒ⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ¬„U‹ •π’Ê⁄U ◊¥, ¬˝‚ ∑§Ê¢»˝¥§‚ ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ øÊ⁄U-¬Ê¢ø ‚Ê¢‚Œ ’Ë¡¬Ë ∑§ ∞‚ ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ’Ρ ÷Í·áÊ ‡Ê⁄UáÊ Á‚¢„U ∑§Ù ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬‡Ê ÷Ë Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ—‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU, ⁄UÊ¡ πÈ‹Ÿ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ¡’ ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ ÃÙ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ©U‚‚ ©Uà‚ÊÁ„Uà „UÙ∑§⁄U, Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ∑˝§Á«U≈U ‹ŸÊ „ÒU, ¡’ ‚Ê¢‚Œ ∞∑§ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ŒÍ‚⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ •Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÷Ë ©Uà‚ÊÁ„Uà „UÙ∑§⁄U ∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ù, flÙ≈U ∑§ ≈UÊß◊ flÙ≈U ∑§ ¡ÈªÊ«∏U ◊¥ ‚’ ‹Ùª ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ, ◊Ò¥ fl„U ∞∑§Œ◊ ∑§Ù≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ •÷Ë ÁS∑˝§å≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë Ÿ ÷Ë ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë Á∑§ flÙ≈U ßœ⁄U •Ê ¡Ê∞ ÃÙ ©Uã„¥U ∑˝§Á«U≈U Á◊‹ªÊ—¡Ò‚ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë „U◊‚ ’Êà „ÈU߸ „ÒU •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ßœ⁄U flÙ≈U Œ¥– ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ù ¡ÊÚߟ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ •ÊŸÊ „ÒU– •ª⁄U ÿ„U „UÙÃÊ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ‚ ∑§„UÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ •Ê¬ flÙ≈U ◊à ŒÙ ÿÊ •Ê¬ flÙ≈U ŒÙ ÿÊ ∞’‚¥≈U „UÙ ¡Ê•Ê—∞‚Ê ∑§„UË¥ ∑ȧ¿U ©UŸ‚ ∑§„UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ– •Ê¬ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞, •ª⁄U ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „UÙ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ◊Ê»§ ∑§⁄‘¥U, ©UûÊ⁄U ¬˝Œ‡Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ◊¥ ß‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ©U‚ ¬Ê≈U˸, ©U‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ß‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ •ÊŸÊ- ¡ÊŸÊ ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– ß‚Ë øıŒ„UflË¥ ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ ∑§ß¸ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ’Ë∞‚¬Ë, ∞‚¬Ë ∑§Ë ◊Òê’⁄UÁ‡Ê¬ ªÿË ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬Ê≈U˸ ’Œ‹Ë, Á«U»Ò§Ä‡ÊŸ ‚ ÿ„U „ÈU•Ê, ÁflœÊŸ ‚÷Ê øÈŸÊfl ‚ ¬„U‹ ÿ„U „ÈU•Ê– ÿ ‚ŒSÿ ’ŸÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, Á≈U∑§≈U ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, •äÿˇÊ ’ŸÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ •ÊÒ⁄U Á∑§ÃŸ ‹ÙªÙ¢ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡ÈªÊ«∏U Á∑§ÿÊ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ ÄÿÊ? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ©U‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥, ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ ‹ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U ’Ë∞‚¬Ë ‚ ÿÊ ‹Òç≈U ‚ ÿÊ ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚ ‚, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ß‚∑§Ê •ŸÈ÷fl „ÒU? ∏ üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Ÿ„UË¥, „U◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ •ŸÈ÷fl Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÿ„U ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿UÊ– •Ê¬ ’ÃÊ∞¢ Á∑§ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù •ª⁄U ∞‚Ê „UÙÃÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ∑§⁄UÃ Á∑§ ß‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ‚ ©U‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥.... üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– „U◊Ê⁄‘U { ◊Òê’⁄U ’Ë∞‚¬Ë ◊¥ ø‹ ªÿ ÃÙ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ÃÙ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§ ™§¬⁄U •ÊˇÊ¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊÿÊ– ’Ë∞‚¬Ë ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄‘U { ◊Òê’⁄U ø‹ ªÿ, „U◊Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ •ÊˇÊ¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊÿÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ∞Ä‚¬Á≈¸U¡ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑Ò§‚ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ÿ •Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ߟ∑§ ßã≈˛U¬◊¥≈U ◊¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ߢ«KÍ‚◊¥≈U ◊¥, •Ê¬ ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊ •Ê ªÿ, ߟ∑§ ªÈ«U»Ò§Õ ◊¥ „U◊Ÿ ߟ∑§Ë ’Êà ◊ÊŸ ‹Ë– ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê∑§⁄U „U◊‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ê •äÿˇÊ ’ŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, „U◊¥ Á≈U∑§≈U ÁŒ‹flÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– „U◊Ÿ ߟ∑§Ë ’Êà ◊ÊŸ ‹Ë– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬Í⁄‘U ∞∑§ ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§Ë ’ÊÃøËà ◊¥ ÿ„U ’Êà ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê߸ Á∑§ •Ê¬ •Ê∑§⁄U „U◊‚ ’Ù‹ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊ •äÿˇÊ ’Ÿ¥ª •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ •÷Ë ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ©U‚∑§Ê ‚¢Œ÷¸ ÄÿÊ ÕÊ? ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà ◊¥ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ øÁ‹ÿ, ø‹∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’, ß‚∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ‚¢Œ÷¸ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ∑§„UÃ, „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ πÊ‹Ë •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ •Êÿ Õ, ‚’ ◊Òê’‚¸ ÃÙ •Êÿ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ–

234 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ò¥ ‚ËÁ⁄Uÿ‚ „Í¢U •ÊÒ⁄U ◊⁄UÊ ‚flÊ‹ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ¬„U‹ „UË ’Êà „UÙ ªÿË Á∑§ •äÿˇÊ ’ŸŸÊ „ÒU, ‚ŒSÿ ’ŸŸÊ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ’Êà ∑§Ë– fl „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •Êÿ Õ ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ªÿ, ¬„U‹ ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§Ù߸ Á◊òÊÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË, •ÊŸÊ-¡ÊŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ-„U◊ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U, ∞∑§Œ◊ ‚„UË ’Êà „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ •Ê¬ ÿ„U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§— •⁄‘U ÷߸ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ø‹∑§⁄U •Êÿ „Ò¥U, ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU, •Ê¬ ø‹Ù, ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË, •Ê◊Ÿ-‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– ©U‚ flÄà •ª⁄U „U◊‚ ÷Ë ’Êà „UÙ ÃÙ „U◊ ∑§„¥Uª Á∑§ •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ø‹∑§⁄U •Êÿ, •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊¥ ’Ù‹Ê Ã÷Ë ÃÙ „U◊ •Êÿ „Ò¥U, •’ •Ê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U „UÙ,—ÿ„U ’Êà Ò ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê߸? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ÿ ÿ„UË ÃÙ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •ª⁄U •Ê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÃÙ „U◊ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ¡Ê•Ù– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •Êÿ, •Ê¬Ÿ ∞‚Ê ∑§„UÊ, Ã÷Ë „U◊ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ •Êÿ „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •Ê¬ ÿ »È§≈U¡ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– „U◊Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •ª⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ø‹Ù, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ¡Ê•Ê, „U◊ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ •Êÿ „Ò¥U–

üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— fl„U ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢Œ÷¸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– There was no connection of that. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë fl„U ’Êà ÷Ë ∑§„UË „ÒU, ¡Ù ß‚◊¥ •Ê߸ „ÒU Á∑§ Á»§⁄U „U◊ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ¬Ê∞¢ª, fl„UÊ¢ ø‹ŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ, ∑§Ê»§Ë ≈UÊß◊ ’’ʸŒ „UÙ ªÿÊ „ÒU, Á»§⁄U fl„U ‚Ù ¡Ê∞¢ª– ‚Ù ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ’Êà ∑Ò§‚ „U٪˖ ÿ„U •Ê¬Ÿ ÃËŸ ’Ê⁄U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ‚Ù ¡Ê∞¢ª, ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ •÷Ë ø‹Ù, ‚Ù ¡Ê∞¢ª ÃÙ ’Êà ∑Ò§‚ „UÙªË? ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ©Uã„¥U ⁄UÊà ◊¥ „UË ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ, ‚Ù ¡ÊŸ ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ◊Ë’ „ÒU? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊ ‚È’„U „UË ‹ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ– ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ß‚Ë ‚◊ÿ ø‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, Ÿ „U◊Ÿ ߟ‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •÷Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ø‹ ø‹Ù– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ‹Ùª ß‚ ‚◊ÿ ¡Ê∞¢ª ÃÙ fl„UÊ¢ ’„ÈUà ‹Ùª ’Ò∆U „UÙ¥ª, ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪ʖ

üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÿ„U ÃÙ •Ê¬ ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ◊¥ ‚ ¬…∏U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ »È§≈U¡ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ‚Ê„U’—◊Ê»§ ∑§ËÁ¡∞ªÊ, ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù •ª⁄U „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ’„ÈUà ‹Ùª ’Ò∆U „UÙ¥ª– ¡Ò‚Ê ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’ÿÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ‚È’„U ªÿ ÃÙ ‚È’„U fl„UÊ¢ πÊ‹Ë ⁄U„UªÊ, ‚È’„U ÿ „UË ‹Ùª ¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ, Á‚flÊÿ ⁄UÙ‡ÊŸË •ÊÒ⁄U ߟ∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ù߸ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ ŒÁπÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU, ÿ ÃÙ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ÿ„UÊ¢ ÃÙ ∑§◊ ‚ ∑§◊ „U◊ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ÷Ë ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê ªÿ, „U◊Ê⁄UË ÃÙ ∞∑§ ∑Ò§≈Uª⁄UË „ÒU, fl„UÊ¢ ’«∏U-’«∏U ‹Ùª „Ò¥U, ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª „UÙ¥ª– •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ‹Ùª „Ò¥U ŸÊ, •Ê¬ ø‹Ù ÃÙ, •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ‚„UË ’Ù‹ •ı⁄U Á»§⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ fl ‚Ù ¡Ê∞¢ª, ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ •÷Ë ø‹Ù– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— „U◊Ÿ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU, •Ê¬ »È§≈U¡ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞, ÿ„U ÃÙ ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ≈˛UÊ¢‚Á∑˝§å≈U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ fl„UË¥ ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ë „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Ÿ„UË¥-Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê¬ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞ªÊ, ß‚∑§Ê ∞∑§ Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U fl‚¸Ÿ •Ê¬ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞, ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ fl„U ‚Ù ¡Ê∞¢ª, •Ê¬ ©U∆¥Uª Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ¬Ê∞ªË–

235 ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U ÃËŸ ’Ê⁄U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ‚Ê„U’, ◊Ê»§ ∑§ËÁ¡∞ªÊ– •Ê¬ ’„ÈUà ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ◊Òê’⁄U „Ò¥U... ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ù „U◊ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ Œπ ‹¥ª– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∞∑§ ‚ÊÕË, „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∞∑§ flÁ⁄Uc∆U ‚ŒSÿ ‚ „U◊ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ∞◊¬Ë¡ Ÿ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ÄflÒ‡øŸ ‹ªÊ∞ „Ò¥U, ∑¢§å‹¥≈U ∑§Ë „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U, ÿÊ ¡Ù »È§≈U¡ Œπ¥ „Ò¥U ©U‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ÿÊ ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ¡Ò‚ ∑ȧ¿U Œ‹Ê‹, ◊Ò¥ Œ‹Ê‹ „UË ßŸ∑§Ù ∑§„UÃÊ „Í¢U, ∞‚ ‹Ùª, •Ê¬ ‚’ ◊ȤÊ ◊Ê»§ ∑§ËÁ¡∞ªÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U ‹Ùª ¡Ù ∞‚ ∑§Ê◊ ◊¥ ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ, •Êª- ¬Ë¿U ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§ »§Ù≈UÙ Œπ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ©U‚∑§Ê Á‹Áπà ’ÿÊŸ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù, fl„UÊ¢ ¡ÊŸ ‚ ¬„U‹, ©U‚Ÿ •¬Ÿ ◊Ù’Êß‹ »§ÙŸ ‚, •Ê¬∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬‚ ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ, •ª¸‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ‚ •Ê¬‚ Á◊‹Ê∞¢ª •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ø‹∑§⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ªÿ, ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ‚ø „ÒU? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ÿ„U ‚ø Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ÿ„U •ÊœÊ ‚àÿ „ÒU– ‚àÿ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚Ÿ •ª¸‹ ‚ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸, øÍ¢Á∑§ •ª¸‹ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸, Á¡‚∑§Ù •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬„UøÊŸÃ Õ– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ fl„U ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ßÃŸÊ „UË „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ©UŸ‚ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— ¬Ê¢ø-‚Ê…∏U ¬Ê¢ø ’¡ ∑§ ∑§⁄UË’– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Basically, you see that today we have called you because you have appeared in the footage and what has been said by the MPs is in your full knowledge. You have said that Shri Ashok Argal, MP and Raja Hindustani not only met you in the evening but pressurised you in the odd hours of night to go because Madhya Pradesh Police was keeping a watch on them. •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‹≈U •Êfl‚¸ ◊¥ •Ê¬ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U– üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Œ⁄U ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊÃÊ „Í¢U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: ’„ÈUà ¡Ù⁄U ŒŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ „UË •Ê¬ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‚„U◊à „ÈU∞– ‹Á∑§Ÿ what were the compelling circumstances for a person like you who has been very strict in such matters to actually agree finally to go in the night? SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Shri Ashok Argal had come to me and he never told me that he would be calling me in the late night. He said Á∑§ ŒÙ-ÃËŸ ÉÊ¢≈U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U ’Êà „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË– I took it in good faith. ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ vv ’¡ Ã∑§ ÿ ‹Ùª Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê∞, ÃÙ „U◊ ‚ÙŸ ø‹ ª∞– Á»§⁄U ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ– •Ê¬ ø∑§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÉÊ⁄U •Ê∞– •Ê¬ ¬Ë‚Ë•Ê⁄U ‚ ø∑§ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ÉÊ¢≈UË ’¡Ê߸– „U◊Ê⁄UÊ Ÿı∑§⁄U ¬Ë¿U ÕÊ, „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ÷ÃË¡Ê ªÿÊ– ©U‚Ÿ ÃÊ‹Ê πÙ‹Ê– ©U‚Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ∞◊¬Ë ‚Ê„U’ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ’„ÈUà ¡M§⁄UË ’Êà „ÒU— fl ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ŒÙ ∞◊¬Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U „Ò¥U– øÍ¢Á∑§ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ¬Ë¿U ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „ÒU, ß‚ «U⁄U ‚ fl Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U– „U◊ ’„ÈUà ◊ÈÁ‡∑§‹ ‚ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U– I took it in good faith and went there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Could it not have waited for the next day?

236 SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: You can blame me for going in the late night, but since he was insisting, I had to go. I never went to their house. He came to my house and he requested me so I acceded to his request. That can be my fault that I took it in good faith. MR. CHAIRMAN: You are the General Secretary of your Party! SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: During this entire episode which took place, they wanted an assurance of Lok Sabha seat and money for elections, at any point of time did this vote of confidence figured in your conversation? That was the most important political event.

SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Not at all. üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬˝‚ ∑§Ê¢»˝¥§‚ ÕË– ©U‚◊¥ ’„ÈUà ‚ ŸÃÊ ª∞ Õ, Á¡‚◊¥ fl ∞◊¬Ë ÖflÊߟ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ– ©U‚Ë ◊¥ „U◊ ª∞ Õ– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ I came back. ÿ„U ∑§„UË¥ Á«US∑§‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚Ë ∞◊¬Ë ∑§Ù ÖflÊߟ ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ „ÒU, ‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÿÊ ÿ ‚’ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– It was never discussed anywhere in my Party. ◊⁄UË ¬Ê≈U˸ ß‚◊¥ Áfl‡flÊ‚ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃË „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ÿ„U ÷Ë ¬Í¿U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ „UË ÄÿÙ¥ øÈŸÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU? ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë ◊Ê»§ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ߟ∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∞∑§ ’«∏U ŸÃÊ ∑§Ù „U◊Ÿ ß‹Ê„UÊ’ÊŒ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ˇÊòÊ ‚ øÈŸÊfl ◊¥ „U⁄UÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ∑§ß¸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ê ◊∑§‚Œ ⁄U„UÊ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ∞∑§ ∞‚ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U, Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ߟ∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ŸÃÊ ∑§Ù „U⁄UÊÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊¥ ∞Ÿ≈˛ÒU¬ Á∑§ÿÊ– „U◊ ÃÙ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ∞Ÿ≈˛ÒU¬ ∑§⁄UŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞ Õ– „U◊ ©Uã„¥U ’È‹ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞ Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „UË „U◊¥ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ’È‹ÊÿÊ– fl„UË „U◊¥ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ‹ ª∞– „U◊Ê⁄UË ª‹Ã Ã’ „UÙÃË, ¡’ „U◊ Sflÿ¢ ª∞ „UÙÃ ÿÊ ©Uã„¥U ’È‹ÊÿÊ „UÙÃÊ ÿÊ ©Uã„¥U •Ê»§⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ „UÙÃÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë, ÿ ¡Ù ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë Õ, apparently, they were discussed in your Party, but not sure of getting ticket. øÊ„U ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ „UÙ, fl ’Ë¡¬Ë ∑§Ù ¿UÙ«∏UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ, to have ticket and have connection with your Party. Why did they choose this particular moment?

SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: I cannot tell you this. They are better judge to know it. ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ Á∑§ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ÄÿÙ¥ øÍ¡ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ß‚Ë ‚◊ÿ „U◊¥ flÊÿŒÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞ªÊ, ÃÙ Á≈U∑§≈U Á◊‹ ¡Ê∞ªÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Of their own, at any point of time, did they tell you that they will vote for you? SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Neither I said, nor they said. MR. CHAIRMAN: They have not made any such offer! üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U— Ÿ „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ flÙ≈U ŒÙ, Ÿ „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∞’‚¥≈U ⁄U„UÙ– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Did you have any knowledge who Sanjeev Saxena is? SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: No, I do not. I never met him before. Occasionally I went to Shri Amar Singh’s residence, but I have never met him. MR. CHAIRMAN: You have no knowledge of money delivered to them!

SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: I saw in the Parliament House. øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, •Ê¬ ◊Ê»§ ∑§ËÁ¡∞ªÊ Á∑§ Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ŸÇŸ ¬˝Œ‡Ê¸Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ, ß‚‚ Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ∑§Ê ’ÁÀ∑§ ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê ∑§Ê •¬◊ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– •ª⁄U ¬Ò‚Ê ‚È’„U Á◊‹Ê, ¡’ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ¬Ò‚Ê ‹∑§⁄U ª∞, ÃÙ ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬∑§«∏UflÊÿÊ? fl„UÊ¢ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÕË, ÁŒÀ‹Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÕË– ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ ©Uã„¥U ¬∑§«∏UflÊ ŒŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ ÕÊ– Á¡‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‚ fl ‹Ùª ª∞ Õ, ©U‚ ÷Ë ¬∑§«∏UflÊ ŒÃ– ‚È’„U ¬Ò‚Ê Á◊‹Ê, ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù øÊ⁄U ’¡ ¡’ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ ¬˝œÊŸ ◊¢òÊË ¡Ë ∑§Ù ’Ù‹ŸÊ ÕÊ, Ã’ ¬Ò‚Ê ‹Ê∑§⁄U ≈U’‹ ¬⁄U ⁄Uπ ÁŒÿÊ– ◊⁄UÊ

237 ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ ‹Ùª •¬ŸË ‹Êß»§ ◊¥ ∞‚Ê ‚Ùø ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ‚∑§Ã Á∑§ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ◊¥ ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ê ŒÎ‡ÿ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– ß‚‚ Ÿ ∑§fl‹ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê •¬◊ÊŸ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, ’ÁÀ∑§ ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê ∑§Ê •¬◊ÊŸ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: But you have no knowledge of what happened earlier! SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: No knowledge. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: I am sorry if I have said any harsh words, ◊À„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë ◊Ê»§ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª–

(The witness then withdrew) WITNESS EXAMINED: 1. Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni ji, you have been requested to appear before the Committee to give evidence regarding the sting operation conducted CNN-IBN concerning the alleged offer of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, Members of Parliament, in connection with voting on the Confidence Motion. I may also inform you that under Rule 275 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Lok Sabha, the evidence that you give before the Committee is to be treated as confidential till the Report of the Committee and its proceedings are presented to the Lok Sabha. Any premature disclosure or publication of the proceedings of the Committee would constitute a breach of privilege and contempt of the House. The evidence that you give before the Committee would be reported to the House. Could you please take oath? (OATH WAS TAKEN) MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni, last night I found a sealed cover in my residence. I have circulated that to all the Members of the Committee. There was one written submission made by you and one by Suhail Hindustani. You are aware of the subject. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I am aware of the subject. With your permission, I have just included a postscript to my written submission. I would like to hand it over to you. You can take it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure. You may say whatever you like to substantiate what you have written after which my colleagues would like to ask questions to which you may respond. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Hon. Chairman, Sir and hon. Members of the Committee: I thank you for summoning me to appear before this Committee. First of all, I would like to submit that this is not only a sting operation conducted by CNN-IBN, it is primarily a whistle-blowing operation conducted by the three BJP MPs, and I was a facilitator. The CNN-IBN participated in this voluntarily and conducted recording with the promise of telecasting the programme. Hon. Chairman, Sir, I would like to make a few introductory remarks with your permission. I am well aware that this is a very powerful Committee representing the highest institution of Indian democracy. If your Committee wants and deems fit, you have the power to send a witness to jail for falsifying information, concealing information. I am appearing before this Committee

238 as a witness and also as a citizen of India. It is my earnest submission that this Committee brings out the truth and punishes the guilty. If I am held guilty, I am prepared to face punishment.

In my written submission, I have given my identity. I would like to very briefly summarise what I have stated in my written submission and also submit before you, hon. Members, why I participated in this whistle-blowing operation.

I have been an activist of the BJP since 1996. Between 1998 and 2004, I worked with respected Atal Bihari Vajpayee ji, a former Prime Minister, in the Prime Minister’s Office as his aid. I also have been a journalist for many years and now I am a columnist for the Indian Express and many other Indian newspapers. Both as a political activist and as a columnist, it has been my endeavour to serve the ideals of our secular nationalism, democracy and rule of law.

Hon. Members, consequent to the withdrawal of the Left Party’s support to the UPA Government on July 8, it was obvious to one and all that the Government would not survive. I was deeply agitated over the fraudulent manner in which the Government was trying to garner support for itself and convert its minority into majority. As a columnist, well before this episode, the cash- for-vote scandal, on July 22, I had given expression to my feelings and my thoughts in my columns and I have drawn the attention of the hon. Members by attaching my columns; my two columns before the episode and three columns after the episode. In the first column, I said it is very unfortunate that a Government that until recently was depending on the support of the Communist Parties, the Left Parties, Lal Salaam; and let me tell you that I have myself been an activist of the Communist Party and I have great respect. I may not agree with the political ideology of the CPI(M) any more but I have great respect for the principled politics of the Left Parties. They took a principled stand on the nuclear deal, and because of the principled stand, they withdrew support. I have respect for them. From Lal Salaam, the people in the Government chose to say the Lal Salaam; I wrote about it. In the next column, I gave further expression to my agitated feeling by saying that Parliamentary democracy is being polluted. Why did I do this? It is because, it was known to one and all that horse-trading was going on in the capital. A very respected member of the CPI, Comrade Bardhan stated on the 14th of July that Rs. 25 crore were being offered to each MP.

Now, Comrade Bardhan does not belong to our party. But as a responsible and respected member of the Indian political class, he was telling the truth.

So, on the 21st July, when the Trust Vote Session began, Member after Member after Member on the Opposition side, spoke about horse-trading of MPs. I have listened to all the speeches. The reference to horse-trading was there in the speech of my respected leader, Shri L.K. Advaniji, the very first speech. It was repeated by many other hon. Members; and one of the best speeches in that debate was made by Comrade Salim, who said that this country needs leaders and not dealers. And, I was shocked to know that we had a leader, the leader of this Government who was trying to depend on a dealer to ensure the survival of his Government.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Kulkarniji, if you please hold on for a moment.

We have seen the columns, which you have sent to us. I have also gone through your another piece, which had appeared in the Indian Express—the interview by Suman K. Jha. About the speeches, I think, all of us have heard. The House was almost full that day, and we have heard each other.

239 Are you basing our allegations/charges only based on the statement made by Mr. Bardhan and the speeches of the Members of Parliament? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I am coming to everything, hon. Chairman, Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN: You see, we are here sitting on a quazi judicial capacity as you all know. You may be aware—you have worked with Vajpayeeji also—that as a Committee, we work across party lines. We are not here to serve our party line as far as the Committee is concerned. Could you please substantiate specifically? These are the things, which have already gone through. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I have made this initial observation only to drive home the point as to why I got involved in this whistle-blowing operation. I did so because I considered that the Prime Minister by asking the question, “where is the proof?” in Parliament, lowered the prestige of the Indian democracy. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni, this is most uncalled for. You please let this Committee know how and why, what the Prime Minister said was wrong. That would be more appropriate than to pass judgement or comments what took place inside the House. You see, whatever takes place inside the House is also spoken with a Constitutional guard; you are aware of that also. So, that is not a matter for this Committee to discuss. Please substantiate your charges in specific terms. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Certainly, Sir. After having submitted to you, why the motive behind my involvement in this whistle-blowing operation, hon. Chairman, Sir, on the 21st around 1130, I received a call from Shri Suhail Hindustani. He said on the people, ““÷Ê߸ ‚Ê„U’ •Ê¬ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§ËÁ¡∞, •Ê¬∑§ ∞◊¬Ë Á’∑§ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U–”” I was taken aback. I know Suhail Hindustani for many years. Suhail Hindustani was an ordinary activist, worker of the Yuva Morcha of the BJP. When Shri Shahnawaz Hussain was the Minister, he worked closely with him. So, I was taken aback and I said, “Can you give me the names?” He gave me the names. I asked him to see me after some time because I wanted to get further details from him. He said that his information was based on, what he called, ‘the market’, which is the code word for all the wheeling dealing that takes place in the Capital. And, he gave me the names. Among the names were the names of the three MPs, with whom I subsequently collaborated, Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Mahavir Bhagora and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste. He also gave me information as to how and where exactly he got this information from. That is, his contacts in different parties gave this information to him, which he passed on the me. Then I asked him, ““•Ê¬∑§Ë ¬„È¢Uø ∑§„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ „ÒU? ‚Ù„U‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ◊⁄UË ¬„È¢Uø üÊË •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ Ã∑§ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U Ã∑§ ÷Ë „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ß㻧ÊÚ◊¸‡ÊŸ ŒË „ÒU fl øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∑ȧ¿U ∞◊¬Ë ∑˝§ÊÚ‚ •Êfl⁄U ∑§⁄‘¥U for some consideration.”

MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you have anything on record to substantiate this? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: This is what Suhail Hindustani told me. MR. CHAIRMAN: There is nothing on record to substantiate this. Okay, please go ahead. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Then, I asked him a very important question. I asked him, “What is your motive in passing on this information to me?” Now, he is a very unique person; he talks a lot; he talks in a very colourful way sometimes; and he told me that his background is that of the Bhartiya Jana Sangh from which the Bhartiya Janata Party was formed later on in

240 1980. He says that his grandfather was a staunch nationalist, who refused to migrate to Pakistan; he was in Rajasthan and he was a committed worker of the Jana Sangh. He says, “I am his grandson, and when I came to know that this Government is going ahead with the Nuclear Deal and wants to survive by indulging in horse-trading, I decided that I should alert my party about what is going on and to see that this is stopped.” He also said, “If I wanted, using my contacts, I could have made some money in this fixing operation. But I did not want to do that. I wanted to do something big for my country, my kaum and for my party.” Then, I asked him, “Are you willing to participate, to assist in any whistle-blowing operation?”, he agreed enthusiastically and instantly. As I have stated in my written submission, in the evening of 21st July, a senior colleague of mine—in fact, I may mention to you, hon. Chairman, Sir,—Shri Arun Jaitley, informed me that the CNN-IBN had agreed to record and telecast the whistle-blowing operation. And, he also mentioned to me that one Shri Siddharth Gautam, an investigative Reporter with the Channel, would contact me soon. As a matter of fact, Siddharth Gautam did contact me, and I asked him to come over to the place, where I stay in Delhi, by which time the three MPs, Shri Bhagora, Shri Kulaste and Shri Argal had also arrived at the same place, namely, 17, Balwant Rai Mehta Lane. The first part of the whistle-blowing operation was when Suhail said that he can take our MPs to meet Shri Ahmed Patel at his residence. Unfortunately, there was some delay in the CNN-IBN team coming to 17, Balwant Rai Mehta Lane. By the time they came and by the time they fitted the hidden recording devices on the clothes of two MPs, it was quite late. So, Suhail said that they have to now go to Meridian Hotel. I must mention here that the devices were brought by the CNN-IBN team. There were two of them at that time—Siddharth Gautam and the cameraman, Sudesh. Suhail and two MPs left for Le Meridian, and we, along with Siddharth Gautam and his team, tailed their car and we parked ourselves outside the hotel. I must also mention one more thing, hon. Chairman, Sir, because subsequent to this whole thing, on the 11th CNN-IBN has telecast the programme. I was unpleasantly surprised to see that there was not a single clip of anything that happened in the Meridian Hotel. Whom they met? Of course, they did not meet Shri Ahmed Patel because, as submitted by our MPs, he had already left the hotel but they did spend about 30 to 40 minutes inside the hotel, and Suhail tells me that they met several Congress leaders, which must be recorded on the recording devices. But nothing of that was shown by CNN-IBN. I must also mention here that the CNN-IBN cannot say that the devices recorded blank because, as I stated to you, hon. Chairman, Sir, I was with Siddharth Gautam and his colleague. They started the device just before our MPs and Suhail went inside the hotel, and they were repeatedly phoning them after about 30-35 minutes to come back soon because there is a stipulated time of about 40-45 minutes after which the battery is over and it has to be re-operated. So, Siddharth Gautam was repeatedly telling Suhail inside to come back and they would switch it on again. So, it is obvious that they have recorded something which they have not shown. It is concealment of evidence. However, after they failed to meet Shri Ahmed Patel when they came out of the hotel, I told Suhail to try reaching out to his contacts in the Samajwadi Party and he said that he would take our MPs to meet Shri Rewati Raman Singh. It so happened that soon after midnight by which time we had switched, we had re-located ourselves to 4, Feroze Shah Road, the official residence of Shri Ashok Argal.

241 So, soon after midnight, Suhail brought Shri Rewati Raman Singh to Shri Argal’s house. They were closeted inside the drawing hall of Argal’s house for about 30 minutes by which time CNN- IBN had, what is called, ‘bugging room’. Of course, I was not there. I was in the adjoining room where a listening device was available. I was along with the other CNN-IBN members. There were two more members who joined by this time. One of them was Saif Kidwai, who was a producer with the Channel. I do not know the name of the fourth member. But all four of us, that is, Siddharth Gautam, Sudesh, Saif Kidwai and the fourth member and myself were in an adjoining room where through the listening device we could follow what was going on in the drawing room.

After about 30 minutes, Shri Rewati Raman Singh left Argal’s house and the three MPs who were in the room gave me the gist of what happened. I am just telling you very briefly what the three MPs told me. They said that Shri Rewati Raman Singh offered to take our three MPs to meet with Shri Amar Singh at the latter’s residence, 27, Lodi Estate if they were agreeable to cross over by either voting for the Government or abstaining from the vote for a consideration. The three MPs said that the amount would be decided by our leader Shri Amar Singh for which they have to go to Amar Singh’s house. However, since it was quite late, the meeting or rather the visit to Amar Singh’s place did not happen at night. Shri Rewati Raman Singh said that it could happen in the morning. After he left around 12.30 or one o’clock, all of us, that is, the three MPs, the entire CNN-IBN team, myself and Suhail discussed the next part of the operation for quite some time. We left the place around 3 o’clock.

We came back at seven in the morning. About an hour later, Suhail told me that he had established a telephonic contact with Shri Rewati Raman Singh who said that Shri Amar Singh was waiting for our MPs at his residence. Accordingly, two of our MPs, Shri Kulaste and Shri Argal accompanied by Suhail went to Shri Amar Singh’s house. Now, why am I saying that they went to Amar Singh’s House? I must underscore one important point here. All along the CNN-IBN team has been a collaborator in this whistle blowing operation. Shri Siddharth Gautam told me that he would go ahead to record the entry of our MPs into Shri Amar Singh’s house and also record their exit after they left the place.

Now, a question would normally come, if CNN-IBN team had fitted the recording devices on our MPs when they went to Meridian Hotel, why our MPs did not go with the recording devices to Shri Amar Singh’s house? It is a very obvious question. Hon. Chairman, Sir, I must place on record here that when I mentioned to Siddharth Gautam about fitting the recording devices, Siddharth Gautam told me please do not take this risk. His words in Hindi •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ©USÃÊŒ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U– He is an expert in sting operations and he would very easily find out if the interlocutor is having some device. In any case, his house also would have certain gadgets to find out if a person is coming with any recording device. So, it was the CNN-IBN’s advice to our MPs not to go with any recording device.

I really do not know what happened inside Shri Amar Singh’s house. However, after they returned, the MPs gave the gist of what happened inside Shri Amar Singh’s house. They said that they did meet Shri Amar Singh.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni, all these materials are always there with the Committee. We are aware of it. Could you just be more specific? There is no need to narrate because, I think, all the Members here are aware of it.

242 SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I take your point hon. Chairman, Sir. But there are two things which are not there in my written submission, which are necessary to supplement this information. I must mention that. After a person who was identified as Sanjeev Saxena by the MPs and Suhail Hindustani accompanied by one more person, they left Argal’s house, that is when for the first time I entered the drawing room and found that the money was there in a bag. I asked Suhail, who else was there along with Sanjeev Saxena, and he mentioned that he had come with one more person wearing a yellow long sleeved shirt, who actually carried the bag.

And that person is, in fact, seen in the CNN-IBN’s telecast. Suhail mentioned to me and this is a very important point, hon. Chairman, Sir, that Suhail mentioned that this man in yellow shirt was also both in front of Shri Amar Singh’s house, 27, Lodi Estate, and he also was seen inside and, therefore, he is a very important additional evidence. I do not know whether in the tape submitted by CNN-IBN to your Committee there is this second person seen in front of Shri Amar Singh’s house. But if he is there, then it further clinches the point that the money actually came from Shri Amar Singh’s house.

I would like to make one more point which is not there in the written submission, in all the details. After Shri Sanjeev Saxena and his colleague left and we were inside, as I said that is the first time when I entered the drawing room, along with the CNN-IBN team and the mood exhibited by the CNN-IBN team was triumphant, was celebratory. They were very happy that they had accomplished a big scoop. They patted our MPs on the back. They thanked our MPs by shaking their hands and it was clear from the gestures, of the gestures of Siddharth Gautam and others, that what the three MPs and the CNN-IBN team had done together on 21st and 22nd had finally been accomplished. I do not know whether this is also there in the tapes submitted to the Committee. But I have seen myself that Siddharth Gautam and his colleagues shook my hands, they shook the hands of the MPs, they even patted the backs of some of the MPs.

One very important piece of information that I would like to submit is that the CNN-IBN team re-arranged the bundles on the table in the drawing room and conducted an elaborate interview with the three MPs, asking the three MPs to answer every single question from the beginning to the end.

How do I know this? I know this not because I was inside the room, but I was watching all this by standing outside. After the interview was over, Siddharth Gautam also recorded a promo to the programme that was going to be telecast and what he said in the introductory remarks for the promo are quite revealing. I quote here. He said—“For the first time in the history of Indian Parliament, CNN-IBN has captured, on camera, the proof of horse-trading of MPs.”

Now, throughout this operation, Siddharth Gautam—I really admire Siddharth, Sudhesh, Saif Kidwai and the fourth colleague—they were highly enthusiastic in conducting this operation. They were highly professionals. At every stage, Siddharth Gautam was phoning or SMS-ing to his bosses in the CNN-IBN headquarters.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni, could you wind up because the hon. Members would like to ask questions?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I will wind up. Just two minutes, hon. Chairman, Sir. He was taking instructions from his superiors and he assured me that the entire programme would be telecast in about two hours, in any case within five minutes of the MPs displaying the notes inside

243 Parliament. This was the assurance given to me by Siddharth Gautam. It was also an assurance given to our MPs. Hon. Chairman, Sir, I have given this information which is truthful. I am ready to be questioned by hon. Members, Just one last thing. As I said, I was deeply pained to see the Prime Minister participate in a lie by saying—where is the proof. The proof is there in the tapes, the proof is there in the entire sequence of this operation. I would like to close my observations by sharing a thought that I came across recently when the great Russian writer, Alexander Solzhenitsyn passed away. MR. CHAIRMAN: We have seen that also in the written submission. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I must mention this because this has a great force. MR. CHAIRMAN: You mentioned; we have read it. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Yes, but I must say this—that, ordinary people are expected not to tell lies, not to participate in lie; but writers, artists have the power to defeat a lie and I would like to submit to you, hon. Members that as Members of Parliament and as journalists like myself, as a political activist, all of us have a moral responsibility to defeat this lie and bring the truth out and punish the guilty. Thank you, Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN: You have very elaborately made your submissions. My colleagues will ask questions. Please be brief and to the point. I do not think any further explanation is required to back up. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ∞∑§ ¬òÊ∑§Ê⁄U ÷Ë „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ê»§Ë ÁflSÃÊ⁄U ◊¥ •¬Ÿ ‚Êˇÿ ∑§Ù ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄UπÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‹Ò‚Ÿ ÷Ë ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∞∑§ ◊ʪ¸Œ‡Ê¸Ÿ ÷Ë ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ Œ‡Ê ∑§Ù ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ÄÿÊ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– „U◊ •Ê¬‚ Á‚»¸§ ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄U ’ÊÃ¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ∞∑§ ’Êà ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ◊‡Ê„ÍU⁄U ‹π∑§ ÷Ë „Ò¥U •ı⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ¬Í⁄‘U ÉÊ≈UŸÊ∑˝§◊ ∑§Ù, ¬Í⁄‘U ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄UπÊ „ÒU– ß‚ π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅà ∑§Ù ©U¡Êª⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ •Ê¬ ◊ÊS≈U⁄U-◊Êߢ«U ∑§Ê ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ÃÙ ÿ„U ¡Ù ŸÙ≈U ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ¬Í⁄UË ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ◊¥ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¡’ ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§ ¡Á⁄Uÿ ŸÙ≈U ¡◊Ê „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§Ê ¡Ù •ÊŒ◊Ë ’Òª ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÃÊ „ÒU, ¡Ò‚Ê „U◊ ‹Ùª »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ Œπ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ ’Êfl¡ÍŒ ÷Ë, •Ê¬ Á»§⁄U •ÊÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ πÈŒ „UË SflË∑§Ê⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ flÊ‹ ∑§Ê»§Ë ©U◊¢ª ◊¥ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„¥U ‹ªÊ Á∑§ ’„ÈUà ’«∏UÊ •øËfl◊¥≈U ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ¬˝Êåà ∑§⁄U Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU, ∞‚Ê •Ê¬Ÿ •÷Ë ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÷Ë Á¡∑˝§ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬‚ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬∑§Ë ßÃŸË ÃÒÿÊ⁄UË ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ „UË ◊ÊS≈U⁄U-◊Êߢ«U Õ, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ß‚ ’Êà ¬⁄U äÿÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ S≈UÊ»§ ß‚ Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ŸÙ≈U ∑§⁄U ‹ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¡’ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿÊ ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÃÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U Á¡‚ ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏∏U L§¬ÿ ∑§Ù ∑§Ê»§Ë ’«∏UÊ •øËfl◊¥≈U ’ÃÊÿÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, •ÊÒ⁄U ’ª‹ ∑§ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬ ÷Ë ◊ı¡ÍŒ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ÿ¢òÊ ‚ ‚Ê⁄UË fl⁄U’Á≈U◊ ÷Ë ‚ÈŸ ⁄U„U Õ, ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ‚ ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§ ’Ëø ◊¥ ¡Ù ÷Ë ¬Ò‚ ⁄Uπ Õ, ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ÃËŸÙ¥ ‚ŒSÿ fl„UÊ¢ Õ, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ©U‚◊¥ Á∑§‚Ë S≈UÊ»§ ∑§ ¡Á⁄U∞ ÿ„U ŸÙ≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ •Ê¬ ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ߢ»˝§ÊS≈˛UÄø⁄U ‹ªÊÃ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¡’ ß‚∑§ ⁄U„USÿÙŒ˜ÉÊÊ≈UŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥, ß‚ Œ‡Ê ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ©U¡Êª⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, ÿÊŸË ¤ÊÍ∆U ¬⁄U ‚ ¬ŒÊ¸ „U≈UÊ∑§⁄U ‚ø ∑§Ù ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê¬ ‹Ê ⁄U„U Õ, ÃÙ ©U‚ Á¡å‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ÄÿÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬ ∞‚ ‚◊ÿ ¬˝Êßfl≈U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ ÷Ë ⁄Uπ ‚∑§Ã Õ– ß‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ ’«∏UË ’Êà „ÒU? ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ ÿÊ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§◊⁄‘U ∑§Ê ’„ÈUà •÷Êfl ÕÊ, øÍ¢Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •L§áÊ ¡≈U‹Ë ¡Ë Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ ÿÊ ¡Ù ÷Ë ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ⁄UÊ¡ŒË¬ ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸ ∞«UË≈U⁄U Õ, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‚„U◊à „Ò¥U– π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅà ∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ ¡’ ©Uã„¥U ŒË ªß¸, ÃÙ fl„U ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÿÊ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‚„U◊à „UÙ ªÿ ÃÙ ÄÿÊ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË ¬Í⁄UË ÃÒÿÊ⁄UË ∑§Ë ‚◊ˡÊÊ ÄÿÊ •¬Ÿ SÃ⁄U

244 ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë ÕË Á∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ÷Ë ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞? ’Ê„U⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U Ÿ„UË¥ Õ ÃÙ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ∑§◊⁄‘U ‚ ÷Ë ©U‚ Á¡å‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ŸÙ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ? ß‚◊¥ ÄÿÙ¥ øÍ∑§ „ÈU߸? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ‚÷ʬÁà ¡Ë, ◊Ò¥ ß‚∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ŒÍ¢ªÊ– ¡Ò‚Ê ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ ∞∑§ ’ª‹ flÊ‹ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ÕÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ ’Ê„U⁄U ∑§ıŸ ‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË •Ê߸ „ÒU ÿÊ Á¡å‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË •Ê߸ „ÒU ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑ȧ¿U •Ê߸ „ÒU, ◊ȤÊ ÃÙ ∑ȧ¿U ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ ¬⁄UãÃÈ ¡’ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕË ø‹ ªÿ ÃÙ Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ Ÿ „U◊¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚ Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ŸÙ≈U ∑§⁄U Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU, In fact, he had written it on his hand and the number is DL 3CS 8562. ÿ„U ‚„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ∞∑§ ¿UÙ≈UË ‚Ë ≈UÊ߬٪˝ÒÁ»§∑§‹ ∞⁄U⁄U ∑§ ∑§Ê⁄UáÊ «UË∞‹w‚Ë∞‚ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– ÿ„U «UË∞‹x‚Ë∞‚ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ∞∑§ ’Êà •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§„U ŒÍ¢ øÍ¢Á∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê⁄U Ÿ¢’⁄U ∑§ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ øøʸ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ⁄UπŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¡’ ‚ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÿ„U ÉÊ≈UŸÊ „ÈU߸ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ÁŒπÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, in spite of their assurance to us. I, as a journalist, continued my investigation and asked Sohail Á∑§ •Ê¬ Á∑§‚∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ª∞ Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ê ∞∑§ ŒÙSà „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ „ÒU „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë– „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë ∑§Ë √„UÊß≈U ¡Ÿ ∑§Ê⁄U ◊¥ fl ª∞ Õ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U– ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿ¢’⁄U ÄÿÊ ÕÊ? ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿ¢’⁄U «UË∞‹ z‚Ë‚Ë |wv} ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë ∑§Ù ‚¢¬∑¸§ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥ ß‚◊¥ ‚»§‹ „ÈU•Ê– „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë ‚ ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U ◊⁄UË ’Êà „UÙ øÈ∑§Ë „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÿ„U ’ÃÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ This is the registration number and details of the owner of the car in which they went. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥ Á¡ÃŸÊ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U ©UÃŸÊ „UË ’ÃÊß∞– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ ¡Ù „U◊ ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ, ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿ¢’⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¡Ù Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ê⁄U ◊¥ ¬Ò‚ ‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞ ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ¡Ë, ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿ¢’⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ– •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ ¡Ù w| Ÿ¢’⁄U ◊¥ ¡Ÿ ªß¸– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ©U‚∑§Ê ÷Ë Ÿ¢’⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ Ÿ „U◊¥ ¡Ù Ÿ¢’⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ, fl„U Ÿ¢’⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— Á¡å‚Ë ∑§Ê Ÿ¢’⁄U ß‚◊¥ „ÒU? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— •ªSà v ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊Ê⁄‘U ◊Òê’‚¸ Ÿ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ Áø≈U˜∆UË •Ê¬∑§Ù Á‹πË „ÒU ©U‚◊¥ Ÿ¢’⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „UÊ¢, ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ Ÿ¢’⁄U ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑Ò§Œ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ¬Ê∞–

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: To the best of my knowledge, ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑Ò§Œ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ¡’ ßÃŸÊ ’«∏UÊ ‚Êˇÿ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ßÃŸÊ ◊Êߢ«U ∞å‹Êß Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ ß‚ ÉÊ≈UŸÊ∑˝§◊ ∑§Ê ⁄U„USÿÙŒ˜ÉÊÊ≈UŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, ÃÙ ßß ’«∏U ‚Êˇÿ ∑§Ù •Ê¬Ÿ Sfl× ßÃŸË •Ê‚ÊŸË ‚ ∑Ò§‚ ¡ÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ? øÍ¢Á∑§ L§¬ÿ ÃÙ „UÊÕ •Ê ª∞ Õ– ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, L§¬ÿ ÃÙ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊Ò¥≈U ¡Ê∞¢ª, ◊Òê’‚¸ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ „Ò¥U, ∑§Ù߸ ◊Òê’⁄U ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‚ ¿UËŸ-¤Ê¬≈U ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ-∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ◊ı¡ÍŒ „Ò¥U– Á»§⁄U ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ¡Ò‚ √ÿÁÄà ∑§Ù Sfl× •Ê‚ÊŸË ‚ ∑Ò§‚ ¡ÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ? ©U‚ ¡’ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÕË ÃÙ Á«U≈UŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ, ∑ȧ¿U ‚◊ÿ Ã∑§ ⁄UÙ∑§Ê ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– ¡’ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU ŸÙ≈U ÃÙ ¬∑§«∏U∑§⁄U ⁄UπÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– ßÃŸÊ ’«∏UÊ ‚Êˇÿ Á◊‹ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ß‚∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ÷Ë ◊Ò¥ ŒÍ¢ªÊ– ‚Ù„U‹ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¡Ù ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ, Á¡‚∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ „U◊¥ ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, in long-sleeved shirt of yellow colour, ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§„UÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚∑§ ¬Ê‚

245 ∑ȧ¿U Á¬SÃı‹ ÷Ë ÕË– ÿ„U ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– So, the question is: What was our purpose? Our purpose was to expose the scandal and we trusted CNN-IBN. „U◊Ÿ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ¬⁄U ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ fl ŒÙ- ÃËŸ ÉÊ¢≈U ◊¥ ß‚∑§Ù ÁŒπÊŸ flÊ‹ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ¡Ê∞¢ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— fl„U ÃÙ •‹ª „ÒU– fl„U •Ê¬ ’Ù‹ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ’Ù‹ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬˝‚ÊÁ⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ ¬⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ •Ê⁄UÙ¬ ‹ªÊ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬˝‚ÊÁ⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ, ¡Ù flÊŒÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§Ê ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬Ê‹Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– fl„U ÃÙ ¡Ù ∞ª˝Ë◊Ò¥≈U •Ê¬∑§ ’Ëø „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, fl„U •‹ª ’Êà „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ Á‚»¸§ ÿ„U ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ Á¬SÃı‹ ÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§ ‹Ùª, Á‚ÄÿÍÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹ Õ, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ù ‚ø¸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– Ã’ ÃÙ ∞◊.¬Ë. ∑§Ù •¢Œ⁄U ¡Ê∑§⁄U ◊Ê⁄U ÷Ë ‚∑§Ã Õ– ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ Ÿ •¬ŸË «KÍ≈UË Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ß‚ ‚flÊ‹ ∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿÊŒfl ¡Ë, „UÙ ªÿÊ? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ, ¡Ò‚ ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ, Á¬SÃı‹ ÕÊ, •Ê¬Ÿ ŒπÊ Ÿ„UË¥– Á¬SÃı‹ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÕË– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÕË ¡Ù ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •ÊŒ◊Ë ÕÊ– ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ¡Ù ’Ê„U⁄U ‹ªË ÕË, fl„U ∑ȧ¿U ∑§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UË ÕË– •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ •ÊflÊ‚ ¬⁄U Á¬SÃı‹ ‹∑§⁄U ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë ø‹Ê ªÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ¡Ù ◊äÿ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§ ‹Ùª „Ò¥U ÿÊ ©UŸ∑§Ë •¬ŸË ÁŸ¡Ë Á‚ÄÿÍÁ⁄U≈UË „ÒU, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ß‚∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ äÿÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UπÊ– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ¡Ò‚Ê ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ •¢Œ⁄U ÕÊ, ’Ê„U⁄U ÄÿÊ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ ◊ȤÊ ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¢ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ’„ÈUà «UË≈U‹ ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚’ ’ÊÃ¥ ’ÃÊ߸ „Ò¥U– „UÊ¢ ÿÊ ŸÊ ◊¥ ŒÙ-ÃËŸ ’ÊÃ¥ ’ÃÊ∞¢– ¡’ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ª∞ Õ ÃÙ •Ê¬ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ fl„UÊ¢ Õ? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ◊Ò¥ ÕÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ’ª‹ ∑§ M§◊ ◊¥ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ •Ê∞ ÃÙ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ y Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ◊¥ •Ê¬ Õ? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÷Ë ÕÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ Ÿ¢’⁄U •Ê»§ √„UË∑§‹ Á¡‚◊¥ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ÒŸÊ •Ê∞ Õ, fl„U •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— Ÿ„UË¥– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U, ÃÙ •Ê¬ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ Á∑§‚ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ Õ?

üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— «˛UÊߢª M§◊ ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U - It is somewhat like an out-house. ©U‚‚ Á’À∑ȧ‹ ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê ∞∑§ M§◊ ÕÊ-ªÒS≈U M§◊ ∑§Á„U∞, ©U‚◊¥ „U◊ ‹Ùª Õ–

246 ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª Õ? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ÕÊ, ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚ ∑§◊⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§Ë ¬Í⁄UË ≈UË◊ ÕË-øÊ⁄UÙ¥ ‹Ùª •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥, •ÊÒ⁄U ‚Ù„U‹ •ÊÃÊ-¡ÊÃÊ ⁄U„UÃÊ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë, •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ‚Ù„U‹ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ∑§⁄U∑§ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑ȧ¿U ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚∑§Ë ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á‹S≈U ÷Ë ŒË– Á‹S≈U ◊¥ ߟ x ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ÷Ë ÕÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‚ı÷ÊÇÿ ‚ ߟ ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ◊¥ ‚ ∞∑§ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ– Á∑§ÃŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∞‚ Õ Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ß‚ Œı⁄UÊŸ •Ê¬∑§ Œ‹ ∑§ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ flÙ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ? ∑ȧ¿U ⁄U„U „UÙ¥ª? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ߟ ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑§Ê ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ– ÿ ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞, ßã„UÙ¥Ÿ flÙ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ‚ÊÕ ◊¥– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ∑§ß¸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∞‚ Õ Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ flÙ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– ©UŸ Á∑§‚Ë ¬⁄U ÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ Á¡‚◊¥ ¡ÊŸ flÊ‹ ∑§Ù ¬∑§«∏U Á‹ÿÊ „UÙ– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ŒÁπ∞, ÿ ÃËŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ¡Ù „Ò¥U, ◊Ò¥ ¬„U‹ „UË ßŸ∑§Ù ¡ÊŸÃÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ߟ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ‚∑¸§‹ ◊¥ •ÊÃ ⁄U„UÃ Õ Á∑§ ÿ ‚Êç≈U ≈Uʪ¸≈U˜‚ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ߟ∑§Ù ÷Ë ÁøãÃÊ ÕË Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‹Ùª ∑ȧ¿U ∞‚Ê flÒ‚Ê Ÿ ‚Ùø¥– They wanted to participate in the whistle-blowing operation •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ê ‚ÊÕ ÁŒÿÊ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù ªÿ, Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á«U»Ò§Ä≈U Á∑§ÿÊ, ©UŸ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ◊Ò¥ ... ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— Á∑§‚Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ ‹ª ¬ÊÿÊ, ¡Ù Á‹S≈U ÕË •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ Á∑§ ÿ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ©UŸ ¬⁄U Á∑§‚Ë ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øÒŸ‹ flªÒ⁄U„U Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊÿÊ? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— „U◊Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊÿÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ÃÙ Á¡ÃŸÊ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ œÙπÊœ«∏UË ∑§Ë ¡ÊÃË „ÒU, ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù é‹»§ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¡’ ‹Ë ◊Ò⁄‘UÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ª∞ Ã٠ߟ∑§ Ä‹Ùâ‚ ◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U Á«UflÊß‚¡ flªÒ⁄U„U ‹ªÊ߸ ªßZ– ©UŸ Á«UflÊßÁ‚¡ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U „ÈU•Ê, ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ ªÿÊ– ÿ„U ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ’„ÈUà ‚Ê⁄‘U ‹Ë«U‚¸ Õ– »§Êßfl S≈UÊ⁄U „UÙ≈UÀ‚ flªÒ⁄U„U ¡Ù „UÙÃ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ◊¥ ¬Áé‹∑§ •ÊÃË-¡ÊÃË „UË ⁄U„UÃË „ÒU– ÄÿÊ ∑ȧ¿U ∞‚Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ ¬ÙÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ê •ÊŒ◊Ë fl„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ◊Ò¥ ßÃŸÊ „UË ’ÃÊ ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U, øÍ¢Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ¡Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ „ÒU fl„U ÿ„U „ÒU, øÍ¢Á∑§ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë fl„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ, Á»§⁄U ÷Ë ¡’ Ã∑§ fl ¬˝ÃˡÊÊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, Ã’ ∑§ß¸ ‚Ê⁄‘U ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚ ∑§ ŸÃÊ fl„UÊ¢ Õ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§ ∑§„UŸ ∑§ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ •Ê¬ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— Á’À∑ȧ‹– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚∑§Ê •ÊœÊ⁄U ∑§fl‹ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ê ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’Êà ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§ ∑§¬«∏UÙ¥ ◊¥ Á«UflÊßÁ‚¡ ‹ªÊ߸ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃË „Ò¥U, ¡Ò‚Ê ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÃÕÊ∑§ÁÕà M§¬ ‚ ÿ ∞◊¬Ë¡ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ÷Ë ª∞, ¡’ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ª∞, Ã’ ÿ Á«UflÊßÁ‚¡ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊßZ? 247 üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ß‚∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ Ÿ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥ ÷Ë fl„UÊ¢ ÕÊ, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÷Ë ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ ÄÿÙ¥ •Ê¬ ߟ∑§Ù ß‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ Ÿ„UË¥ ÷¡ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ÿ„U ÕÊ, Shri Amar Singh is a past master in sting operations. ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ¡Ê∞ªÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ ÿ ◊à ∑§Á⁄U∞– „U◊ ¡Ê∞¢ª, ©UŸ∑§Ê ¬˝fl‡Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ê ÁŸª¸◊Ÿ, ß‚∑§Ê „U◊ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù ∞‚Ê ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ Ÿ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U Á∑§ÿÊ, fl„U ‚’ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊÿÊ– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊÿÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ •ı⁄U ©UŸ ∞◊¬Ë¡ Ÿ ÄÿÊ •Ê‡flÊ‚Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ, Á∑§ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ ¬Ò‚Ê ÁŒπÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞ªÊ? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊Ÿ ’ÃÊ ÷Ë ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ÿ Á√„U‚‹ é‹Ùߢª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ ¡Ù „UÙ‚¸ ≈˛UÁ«¢Uª „ÒU, ß‚∑§Ê ¬ŒÊ¸»§Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ „Ò¥U– ¬ŒÊ¸»§Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ê Ã⁄UË∑§Ê ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ÿÁŒ ¬Ò‚Ê •ÊÿÊ ÃÙ Œ‡Ê Œπ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ‚ê◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ Œπ¥ ÃÙ ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ, •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¡Ò‚ „UË „U◊Ê⁄‘U ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ©U‚∑§ ÃÈ⁄¢Uà ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ’ÊŒ „U◊ ÿ ≈U‹Ë∑§ÊS≈U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ÿ„U ©UŸ∑§Ê flÊÿŒÊ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‚ŒŸ ◊¥ ¬Ò‚Ê ÁŒπÊŸ ∑§Ê ÁŸáʸÿ •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬Ÿ •¬Ÿ ŸÃÊ•Ê¥ ‚ ÷Ë ß‚ ‚¢¢’¢œ ◊¥ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË– ßÃŸÊ ’«∏UÊ »Ò§‚‹Ê ‹Ÿ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ‚Ê⁄UË ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ŒπªË, ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ë •fl◊ÊŸŸÊ „UÙªË, ÄÿÊ ß‚∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ©Uëø ŸÃÊ•Ê¥ ‚ ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ •ŸÈ◊Áà ‹Ë ÕË? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— „U◊Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹Ë ÕË– ◊Ò¥ ‚ŒŸ ∑§Ê ‚ŒSÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „Í¢U, ÿ„U ÁŒπÊŸ ∑§Ê ¡Ù ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU, ... ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ÃÙ •Ê¬∑§ ◊ê’⁄UÙ¥ Ÿ ÷Ë ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ÿ ‚Ê⁄UË ÃÒÿÊ⁄UË, ‚Ê⁄UÊ ∞å‹Ë∑§‡ÊŸ, ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U ‚’ •Ê¬Ÿ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÿ ¬Í⁄UÊ „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ, ◊Ò¥ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ê ∞∑§ ‹Ùÿ‹ •ÊÒ⁄U Á«UÁ‚Áå‹¢«U ∞Ä≈UËÁflS≈U „Í¢U •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ ‹Ùÿ‹ ∞fl¢ Á«UÁ‚Áå‹¢«U ∞S≈UËÁflS≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡Ù-¡Ù ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, ◊Ò¥Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ, ¬Í⁄UÊ ÉÊ≈UŸÊ∑˝§◊ „UÙŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ, ◊Ò¥Ÿ •¬ŸË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù •fl‡ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ◊Ÿ ◊¥ ∞‚Ë •Ê‡Ê¢∑§Ê ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË Á∑§ ß‚ flÙ≈U •Ê»§ ∑§Ê¢»§Ë«¥U‚ ∑§ ¬ÊÁ⁄Uà „UÙŸ ∑§Ë ÖÿÊŒÊ ‚¢÷ÊflŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ¡ŸÃÊ ∑§Ë ÁŸªÊ„U ◊¥ ÿ„U ÁŒπÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ª«∏U’«∏UË ∑§Ë ªß¸ „ÒU, ÿ„U ‚’ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ŒÁπ∞, ¬ÊÁ⁄Uà ∑Ò§‚ „ÈU•Ê, ÿ„U ÃÙ Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ¡ŸÃÊ •Ê¡ ¡ÊŸ øÈ∑§Ë „ÒU– ¡’ Ÿê’‚¸ Ÿ„UË¥ Õ, .... ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— fl„U •‹ª-•‹ª ¬⁄U‚å‡ÊŸ „ÒU– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— fl„U •‹ª-•‹ª ¬⁄U‚å‡ÊŸ •Ê¬∑§Ë „UÙ ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ◊∑§‚Œ ÿ„U ÕÊ Á∑§ ≈˛US≈U flÙ≈U ◊¥ ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ‚ ¡ÈªÊ«∏U ∑§⁄U∑§, π⁄UËŒ-»§⁄UÙÅà ∑§⁄U∑§ ¡ËÃŸÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ß‚∑§Ê Ãâÿ „U◊ Œ‡Ê ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄UπŸÊ øÊ„UÃ Õ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‹Á∑§Ÿ Á¡‚ √ÿÁÄà Ÿ ÷Ë Œ‹-’Œ‹ ∑§⁄U∑§, Œ‹ ∑§ Á√„U¬ ∑§Ê ©UÀ‹¢ÉÊŸ ∑§⁄U∑§ flÙ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ, ©U‚ Á∑§‚Ë √ÿÁÄà ∑§Ù ∑§„UË¥ ÷Ë, Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ ¡Á⁄U∞ ¬∑§«∏UÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ê •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ øË¡ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ∑§Ë ¡Ê ‚∑§Ë– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§, ©UŸ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU–

248 ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ß‚‚ ÃÙ ∞‚Ê ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU, ¡Ò‚ Á∑§ ÿ ‚’ ◊Ê◊‹Ê ’ŸÊÿÊ ªÿÊ, ∑ȧ¿U ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ •‚‹Ë ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù, •Ê¬ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ¬∑§«∏U ¬Ê∞ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ß‚Ë ◊¥ ‹ª ⁄U„U– ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ¡Ù ’ÃÊÃÊ ⁄U„UÊ, ©U‚Ë ∑§ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃ ⁄U„U– üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ’„ÈUà ‚Ê⁄‘U ‹Ùª ß‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄U ‚ ∑˝§Ê‚ flÙ≈U Á∑§∞ „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U ¡Ù Á∑§∞ „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, ÄÿÙ¥§ Á∑§ÿÊ, ÿ„U ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊ ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U– I am only answerable as far as questions relating to the three MPs are concerned. ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— fl„U ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ß‚Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ, øÍ¢Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ „UË ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ∞∑§ Á‹S≈U ÕË, ©U‚◊¥ ÃËŸ ŸÊ◊ ÿ ÷Ë Õ– Did you choose only these three names?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Yes, I only worked with these three names.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni, you only worked with these three names. But in your initial remarks you were very flamboyant when you used the term ‘market’.

MD. SALIM: You told that on 21st by afternoon or evening you got the information from Mr. Arun Jaitley that CNN-IBN is willing to take part in this and collaborate with this. Did you inform—be it Mr. Arun Jaitley or you—as you are not an ordinary citizen or activist? Do not you know that CNN-IBN from the start is having an investment of a business house, which is very close to Mr. Amar Singh? If something comes, which goes against the interest of Mr. Amar Singh, the CNN-IBN may not be able to show it. This is what has happened. As the sting started, you did not know that whether Mr. Amar Singh will come or Mr. Ahmed Patel will come or whether Mr. Hooda will come or some other Chief Minister will come or some other IAS officers or National Security Advisor will come as anybody may come. Did you choose CNN-IBN just in a hurry or because of Mr. Arun Jaitley?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: We considered CNN-IBN as an independent and reputed channel, which agreed voluntarily to record and telecast. We believed in them, but subsequent betrayal on the part of the CNN-IBN shows—at least, this is my perception—that the channel came under pressure, and one of the quarters of that pressure might be—in fact, I very strongly believe—what you have referred to that it has investment of people who are close to the culprit. We all talk of freedom of the Press, but we know how this freedom can be curtailed by money-power and political-power.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody else want to ask anything from Mr. Kulkarni? Mr. Kulkarni, you have referred to ‘market’ thereby implying that it was not three MPs, and you have used the word ‘horse trading’. I mean, the term that you have used ‘horse trading’, as if Members of Parliament were on sale like cattle in a shanty and so on and so forth. Anyway, I am not going into that matter. You chose to use the terms that you liked, but when our three colleagues appeared before us on the 4th of this month, a day earlier—just like you gave in the last moment a sealed cover at my residence yesterday—these three MPs had also in a sealed cover sent a transcript, which was not backed by any CD/DVD. While questioning here in the Committee as to where they got the transcript from, the two MPs who appeared before us, namely, Shri Kulaste and Shri Argal, told us that it was Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni, who had prepared this transcript. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Yes.

249 MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you a script writer? Do you write for play, drama, etc.? How could you write a script without the CD/DVD? What is the basis of it?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Hon. Chairman, Sir, I am also a journalist.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, I know that.

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: When CNN-IBN failed to telecast, I decided to ...

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni, please be precise. How did you give a transcript without the backing of a CD/DVD?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: My answer to this is that I continued to investigate this matter.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is all right. You yourself have said that CNN-IBN betrayed and that you did not have the DVD or CD with you. So, how did you manufacture the transcript which you gave to them?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I have not manufactured.

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is what our colleagues have told us.

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: No.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, now I come to the next point.

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Let me answer that question fully.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is enough. You are unnecessarily straying from the subject and digressing. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‚Ë«UË ÕË? üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ‚Ë«UË Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ŒπË?

üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ‚⁄U, ◊Ò¥ ∞∑§ ߟflÒS≈U˪Á≈Ufl ¡Ÿ¸Á‹S≈U „Í¢U– My investigation has revealed…

MR. CHAIRMAN: Transcript has to be from some recording or some evidence. In the sealed cover that was given to us, there was no DVD or CD. So, it was a transcript that you manufactured from your fertile imagination.

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I have not.

MR. CHAIRMAN: But our colleagues have said so. Secondly, you have elaborately explained about CNN-IBN. Whether they are reliable or unreliable; whether they are reputed or un-reputed is not the question that I need to know from you. I do not need or require an answer for that. The fact is, whichever channel it may have been, it was a private agreement between you or Jaitley or whosoever it may be. You say that channel has betrayed you or that channel has let you down, but it was a private agreement between you and them. Do you not have anything written? Did you promise them any money for doing this operation for you? In any case, that is between you and them. How is the country or we or the people responsible if a private agreement between you and the channel was not respected or honoured by the channel as you have alleged?

250 What is the legal sanctity for a ‘whistle-blow’ operation? Does it have any legal sanctity? Does it have any ethical or moral sanctity? Well, you have sort of styled yourself as the saviour of this country to expose lies and corruption. Yes, but you have to be able to substantiate it. Just by giving long sermons and by just narrating certain instances which have no evidence or proof before us, you do not expect the Committee like this to act. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Hon. Chairman, Sir, let me answer this question. There certainly was not any written agreement between us and the CNN-IBN, and more certainly not for any consideration. MR. CHAIRMAN: I am not saying ‘no’, but that is something, a private arrangement between you and them. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: They disclosed that they have the tapes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Whatever it may be, it was good of them to have given us these tapes, otherwise we would not have been able to go through this much of the inquiry. If they had not given the tapes to us, what would you have done? Could you have them sued in a court of law? Could you have taken any action against them if they had not given us these tapes? It was good of them to have handed them over to the hon. Speaker which came to us on the basis of which we are proceeding today. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Hon. Chairman, Sir, the channel which admits that they have recorded a certain incident cannot treat the investigation matter as a personal property. MR. CHAIRMAN: They had whatever they have. How do you know what was more in the channel? You are alleging, and they say, ‘no’. On what basis can you challenge that? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: That has been subsequently fully vindicated, or at least partly vindicated by what they have shown. MR. CHAIRMAN: What they have shown does not substantiate even one per cent of what you have been alleging. All of us have seen that again and again. You say you are a journalist. Do you like the word ‘censorship’? Are you aware of what ‘censorship’ means? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Certainly. MR. CHAIRMAN: ‘Censorship’ does not only mean editing or deleting. If you force somebody to air to write something, that also amounts to censorship, in my opinion. You are a senior journalist; you should have been aware of that. You cannot force either the editor of a newspaper or the editor of a channel to air something or not to air something. This is something which was not in the public domain. This is an agreement between you and them. If you have an agreement with somebody who has betrayed you or whom you do not trust or who does not trust you, how am I responsible for that? This has been the whole basis of your entire operation.

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡Ù ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU ©U‚◊¥ ∞∑§ ¬⁄U‚¥≈U ÷Ë ‚ø Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU—øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, ∞‚Ê ∑§„UŸÊ ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is metaphorically, I would say. Malhotra Ji, I am sorry, literally I did not mean that. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Hon. Chairman, Sir, by saying that it does not even corroborate one per cent of what I have said…

251 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni, I am speaking, you please wait. This is something between colleagues. I just said one per cent and that was metaphorical. I did not mean that in that sense of the term. But it substantiates very little of what you have been alleging. Mr. Kulkarni, you have not only been a senior journalist, but you have also worked in the Prime Minister’s Office. Now, according to the two MPs who appeared before us, you were the mastermind for this entire thing. Do you stand by this interview of yours which appeared in The Indian Express on the 3rd of August, 2008? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I Do. MR. CHAIRMAN: This is by Suman K. Jha. In this page, “MPs on sale”, I quote what Mr. Sudheendra Kulkarni has said—I am just going in the middle; I am missing out the portions— “The real issue is that the out come of July 22 has convinced ordinary people in India that horse- trading was responsible for saving UPA Government, etc., etc..... What could be the consequences of this mass perception? Won’t it make more and more people cynical about politics and politicians? Won’t it make even those political parties such as the BJP which speaks of probity in public life susceptible to thinking that the only way to beat the wheeler-dealers of a rival party is to have a smarter and more resourceful wheeler-dealers of their own?” So, is it in this context that you volunteered to be a wheeler-dealer? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I take a strong objection. MR. CHAIRMAN: This is what you yourself have said. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: No, I am not a wheeler-dealer. MR. CHAIRMAN: You have said over here, Mr. Kulkarni, and you have owned this and not disowned this article. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: Certainly not, but that is not the meaning of what I have said. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I am quoting this. I will have to understand what meaning I understand of it. I do not have to learn English from you, Mr. Kulkarni. I have also studied in a proper educational institution. SHRI MOHD. SALIM: This is more clear in his column also; he has written it in his column that if such things happen, then what is going to be the consequence. MR. CHAIRMAN: He has said in his column: “…the only way to beat the wheeler-dealers of rival parties is to have smarter and more resourceful wheeler-dealers of their own.” That is what he has said. After that, he has been the mastermind of his entire whistle-blow operation. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: May I be given an opportunity to explain? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I had given you full opportunity; you have spoken for 45 minutes. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ÄÿÊ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U?

MR. CHAIRMAN: You can say what you want to say.

üÊË ‚ÈœËãº˝ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸— ‚⁄U, ◊ȤÊ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ if there are any other questions, you may please ask. MR. CHAIRMAN: You yourself have said that these three MPs were whistle-blowers. In other words, they volunteered by your persuasion or whatever reason it may be to become mediums

252 to expose the alleged corruption which you were aware of. In fact, the MPs did not take the money to vote in Parliament. It was only for an expose; it was certainly not for a vote. Are you aware of the fact that such an operation is also open to criminal action under the Anti Corruption Act? There is no protection for this kind of operation where you have not voted or said in Parliament under Article 105 of the Constitution. According to Section 7 of the Prevention of Corruption Act, Mr. Kulkarni, not only the bribe givers but the bribe takers are also liable to action. Being a senior journalist and having worked in the PMO for so long, you should have been fully aware of this. Did you not know that you are exposing these hon. MPs to this kind of a danger? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: This is a whistle-blowing operation and if we are proved guilty, I can only speak for myself, I am prepared to face any punishment. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, øÁ‹∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: You had said that these two MPs were sent to Amar Singh’s house and they were followed by another car. Your intention was to show them go in and come out. Why did they go in a car which had tinted glasses where nothing could be visible? SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I did not understand your question. MR. CHAIRMAN: These MPs went in a car which had tinted glasses. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— é‹Ò∑§ ‡ÊˇÊÊ ÕÊ, ÁŒπÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬«∏U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: If the intention was to expose them or to find out that they were going inside and outside, you could not even make sure that the glasses were clear. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: The idea, hon. Chairman, Sir, was that we knew that there would be media people of not only CNN-IBN but even of other channels outside Amar Singh’s house and we felt that it was not prudent for the identity of our MPs to be disclosed to the entire media. However, CNN-IBN new and in fact they must have made every effort to capture on camera the presence of our two MPs, Although it was not shown on telecast on CNN-IBN, I believe, based on what Siddharth Gautam has told me that they did capture our two MPs on camera. MR. CHAIRMAN: Earlier, you said Raja Hindustani told you about the MPs going to Amar Singh’s house. SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: The MPs going to Amar Singh’s house is something that was planned by all of us, and Siddharth Gautam told me … MR. CHAIRMAN: Being planned is one thing, ‘them’ actually being shown going there is another thing. MD. SALIM: Earlier, he informed, if I remember correctly, that Raja Hindustani told him in the morning that the appointment was fixed and they were supposed to go there. MR. CHAIRMAN: That is all right, but my point is their entry into Amar Singh’s house was totally eclipsed with those dark, tinted glasses on that car. If you wanted to prove a point, in fact, you should have been happy if more media men had captured that on camera apart from just CNN-IBN.

253 SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I can only say this, hon. Chairman, Sir, that CNN-IBN told us after their return that they had captured the presence of the two MPs on camera. That they have not shown in their programme is another matter.

MR. CHAIRMAN: What the CNN told you is something different. We have got everything from CNN. When did you decide to advise these MPs to place those notes on the Table of the House?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: We became aware of the presence of the money only after it was delivered. After the money was delivered at Shri Argal’s house—the CNN/IBN team was there; our three MPs were there; and I was there—we discussed that this is the best way of bringing this out to the knowledge of the people at large and it was decided that first our three MPs would display the notes in the Parliament and within five minutes the CNN-IBN will start the telecast.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Forget about the CNN. At what time did you ask your MPs to go and place the notes on the Table of the House?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: That was decided in Shri Argal’s house in the morning of 22nd.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Did you tell them that they should place the notes on the Table of the House at a particular time?

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: I have not told them.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You just told them that they should be placed on the Table of the House.

SHRI SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI: This is the best way of bringing it to the attention of the people at large.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you.

(The witness then withdrew.) ‚ÊˇÊË — üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ¡Ë, ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÄÿÙ¥ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÒU? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ¡Ù ∞‹Ö«U •Ê»§⁄U •ÊÚ»§ ◊ŸË Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹, üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ •ÊÒ⁄U üÊË ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªı⁄UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ù, ß‚∑§ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù •Ê¡ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U M§‹ w|z ∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U ÿ ¡Ù ¬˝Ù‚ËÁ«¢UÇ‚ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ÿ„U ‚Ë∑˝§≈U ◊ÊŸË ¡ÊÿªË, ¡’ Ã∑§ Á∑§ „U◊ „U◊Ê⁄UË Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ù ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ ¬‡Ê Ÿ ∑§⁄‘¥U– ß‚∑§Ê •÷Ë •Ê¬ ∑ȧ¿U ¬˝øÊ⁄U ∑§⁄‘¥Uª ÃÙ ÿ„U ’˝Ëø •Ê»§ Á¬˝Áfl‹¡ ◊ÊŸÊ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– •’ •Ê¬ ‡Ê¬Õ ‹ ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë, •ë¿UË ’Êà „ÒU– (‡Ê¬Õ ª˝„UáÊ ∑§Ë ªß¸–) ‚ëøÊ߸ Ÿ„UË¥ Á¿U¬ ‚∑§ÃË, ’ŸÊfl≈U ∑§ ©U‚Í‹Ù¥ ‚, πÈ‡Ê’Í •Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ‚∑§ÃË, ∑§÷Ë ∑§Êª¡ ∑§ »Í§‹Ù¥ ‚–

254 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ¡Ë, •Ê¬Ÿ •÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¡Ù ◊Ò¥ ∑§„Í¢UªÊ, ‚ø ∑§„Í¢UªÊ– •Ê¬ ¡’ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ wv ¡È‹Ê߸ ∑§Ù z.xÆ ’¡ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ªÿ Õ... üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— z.xÆ ’¡? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— z.xÆ ’¡ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ŸÙ ‚⁄U– z.xÆ ’¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿ, ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§ πÍ’ »§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„U Õ– ◊Ò¥ z.xÆ ’¡ Ÿ„UË¥, ©UŸ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù ªÿÊ ÕÊ, vw-vw.xÆ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚¬Ê‚– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ vw.xÆ ’¡ ªÿ Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù vw-vw.xÆ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚¬Ê‚ ªÿ Õ– „U◊ ∞ÄøÈ•‹ ◊¥ ≈UÊß◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ífl◊¥≈U ’„ÈUà Ã¡ ÕÊ, ©U‚ ≈UÊß◊– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •ë¿UÊ, vw.xÆ ’¡ ¡’ •Ê¬ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ªÿ Õ... üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ©UŸ∑§ πÍ’ »§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„U Õ, ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ fl ‚Ù ⁄U„U Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ‡ÊÊÿŒ ‚Ù ⁄U„U „UÙ¥ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬Ÿ ª≈U ¬⁄U ÉÊ¢≈UË ’¡Ê߸– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— „UÊ¢, ª≈U ¬⁄U ÉÊ¢≈UË ’¡flÊ߸– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë, •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ y, Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U ◊¥ ∑§’ •Êÿ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— vw.xÆ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚¬Ê‚– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— vw.xÆ ’¡ ∞∑§ „UË ≈UÊß◊ ◊¥ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ¡ª„U „UÙ ªÿÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— •Ê¬ ’Êà ‚ÈÁŸÿ, ¬„U‹ ‚⁄U– ◊Ò¥ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ÕÊ, „U◊Ê⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË •Êª ÕË, ©UŸ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ¬Ë¿U ÕË– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ’ȡȪ¸ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ‚ÙÃ ‚ ©U∆UÊÿÊ– fl ⁄UÊSÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ, ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ŒÙ ‹Ùª Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ, „U◊¥ ⁄UÊSÃÊ ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ’ÊÃ¥ ’ÃÊßZ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— å‹Ë¡, ∞∑§ ’Êà ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ „UÊÕ ¡Ù«∏U∑§⁄U •Ê¬‚ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U... üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— Ÿ„UË¥, „UÊÕ ¡Ù«∏UŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‚Êˇÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ •Êÿ „Ò¥U– ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¡Ù... üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊⁄UË ’Êà ¬„U‹ •Ê¬ ‚ÈŸ ‹¥– ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬‚ Á⁄UÄflÒS≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU, ÿ„U ◊⁄‘U ÁŒ‹ ◊¥ ⁄U„UªË, ¡Ù ’Êà ÿ„UÊ¢ „ÒU– ’Êà ◊Ò¥ •÷Ë Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ∑§„U∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, •÷Ë Ã∑§ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ê Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥, πÈŒÊ ∑§ •‹ÊflÊ, »§Á⁄U‡ÃÙ¥ ∑§ •‹ÊflÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ◊Ò¥ ’Ò∆UÊ „Í¢U, ß‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ—ÿ„U ’Êà •ª⁄U •Ê¬ ∞∑§-∞∑§ ∑§⁄U∑§ ¬Í¿¥Uª, ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ Á¡¢ŒªË ◊¥ ∑§÷Ë ∞‚ ‹»§«∏U ◊¥ ¬«∏∏UÊ Ÿ„UË¥– ÿ„U ∞‚Ë Á¡ê◊ŒÊ⁄UË •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ŒË „ÒU, ◊ȤÊ ’È‹ÊÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚∑§Ê ¬„U‹ ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ‡ÊÈÁ∑˝§ÿÊ •ŒÊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ „Í¢U– •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ∑ȧ¿U ‚◊¤Ê∑§⁄U „UË ’È‹ÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ •¬Ÿ πÍŸ ∑§Ë •ÊÁπ⁄UË ’Í¢Œ Ã∑§...å‹Ë¡...

255 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚Ù„U‹ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ÷Ê·Ê ’„ÈUà ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, „U◊ ¡Ù Á¬Ÿ ¬Êߢ≈U ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©UÃŸÊ „UË ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— „UÊ¢, Á¬Ÿ ¬Êߢ≈U „UË ¬ÍÁ¿Uÿ •Ê¬– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊⁄UÊ ‚ËœÊ ∞∑§ ‹Êߟ ∑§Ê ¬˝‡Ÿ „ÒU Á∑§ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù •Ê¬ Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∞∑§ Á◊Ÿ≈U– ‚ŒSÿ ¡Ù ¬Í¿¥Uª, ∞∑§-∞∑§ ∑§⁄U∑§, ©U‚Ë ∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ •Ê¬ ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë, •Ê¬∑§Ë ◊„U⁄U’ÊŸË „UÙªË, ‚⁄U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ù ¬Í¿UÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, fl„UË ’ÙÁ‹ÿ– •Ê¬ ’„ÈUà ߋ’Ù⁄‘U≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, øË¡Ù¥ ∑§Ù– ß‚‚ Ãâÿ Á¿U¬ÊÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ¡Ù ªÿ, Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ ªÿ, •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ vw-vw.xÆ ’¡ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù... üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡’ „U◊ ◊Ò⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ‚... üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ ◊Ò¥ ¬Í¿U ‹Í¢, •Ê¬ ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ’ÙÁ‹ÿ– ¡’ •Ê¬ vw.xÆ ’¡ ªÿ, Á»§⁄U ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ •Ê ªÿ?

üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§Ê Á«US≈¥U‚ „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§Ê—’‹flãà ⁄UÊÿ ◊„UÃÊ ‹Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ë ∑§Ù∆UË „ÒU, ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊áÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ë– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù •Ê¬ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿ Õ, ©UŸ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ‡ÊÊ◊ ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, ©Uœ⁄U ‚ „UË ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ©UŸ∑§ πÍ’ »§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„U Õ, ∞∑§Êœ ’Ê⁄U... üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ê ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— Ÿ„UË¥, ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù »§ÙŸ Sflÿ¢ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ„U ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ê Áfl·ÿ „ÒU– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— „UÊ¢, ∑§⁄UÊßÿ– ◊⁄UÊ Ÿê’⁄U „ÒU ~~~~~~{Æ{Æ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ÿ„UÊ¢ „ÒU– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— Á∑§‚Ë ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ•Ê, ß‚∑§Ë ¬Ù‹ ◊¥ ¡Ê•Ê, Á∑§‚∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ, Á∑§‚Ÿ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ß‚∑§Ë ’Á…∏UÿÊ ‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UÊ•Ê– •Ê¬∑§Ù πȇÊË „UÙªË •ÊÒ⁄U ◊ȤÊ ÷Ë πȇÊË „U٪˖ üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ë S¬Ë«U ÖÿÊŒÊ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ •Ê¬∑§ Ãâÿ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ •ÊÒ⁄U øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ‹ËÁ¡∞, ߟ∑§Ë S¬Ë«U ßÃŸË »§ÊS≈U „ÒU, ◊ȤÊ ÷Ë ¡’ S¬Ë«U ’…∏UÊŸË ¬«∏UªË, øÍ¢Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ ’Ê„U⁄U ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— •⁄‘U Ÿ„UË¥, ‚⁄U– „U◊ ÃÙ •Ê¬∑§ ‡ÊÊÁªŒ¸ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡ŸÊ’ ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË, •Ê¬ ∞∑§ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚◊ˇÊ ©U¬ÁSÕà „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– ÿ„U ◊Ê◊‹Ê „¢U‚Ë ◊¡Ê∑§ ∑§Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ’«∏UÊ ªê÷Ë⁄U „ÒU– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ‚⁄U, ◊¡Ê∑§ ∑§Ë ÄÿÊ ’Êà „ÒU–

256 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •’ ‚ÈŸÙ– •Ê¬ ß‚ ªê÷Ë⁄UÃÊ ‚ ‹Ù •ÊÒ⁄U ¡Ù ÷Ë Ãâÿ •Ê¬ ’Ù‹¥ª, ¡Ù ÷Ë ’Êà ’Ù‹¥ª, fl„U ÷Ë „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚Á◊Áà ’„ÈUà ªê÷Ë⁄UÃÊ ‚ ‹ªË, øÍ¢Á∑§ „U◊¥ ‚ø ∑§Ë ÄU Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë, ¬„È¢UÁøÿ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •ÊÒ⁄U „U◊ ‚◊¤ÊÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ©U‚ ‚ø ∑§Ë ÄU Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •Ê¬∑§Ê ‚Êˇÿ „U◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ◊ŒŒ ∑§⁄‘UªÊ– •Ê¬ πÈŒ ÿ„UÊ¢ ø‹ ∑§⁄U •Êÿ „Ò¥U, ◊ŒŒ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞– ß‚Á‹∞ •Ê¬ ’Ê„U⁄U ¡Ò‚ ÷Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÙ, ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ‚ ¡Ò‚ ÷Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÙ, ¡’ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚◊ˇÊ ¬„È¢Uø „UÙ ÃÙ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U „U⁄‘U∑§ ’Êà Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ÿ„UÊ¢ ÷Ë Á‹πË ¡Ê ⁄U„UË „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ≈U¬ ÷Ë „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU– ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ©U‚∑§Ê ∞∑§Œ◊ ŸÈÄ‡Ê ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ê ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU, „U◊ ‹Ùª ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U ’Ê‹ ∑§Ë πÊ‹ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ã „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ œË⁄‘U-œË⁄‘U „U⁄U ‚flÊ‹ ∑§Ù ‚ÈŸ¥, ‚◊¤Ê¥, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡flÊ’ Œ¥– Á»§⁄U „U◊ ‚ø ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø¥ª– •Ê¬ ‚ø ’Ù‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ’„ÈUà ’ÃÊ’ „Ò¥U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊¥ ‚ø ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§Ë ’„ÈUà ’ÃÊ’Ë „ÒU– ¬„U‹ •Ê¬ Õ ‚È„ÒU‹ •„U◊Œ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ÄÿÊ Õ? Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ÃÙ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ’Ÿ „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊Ò¥ ¬„U‹ ‚ „UË ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË „Í¢U– Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸ ∑§Ê ∞∑§ ¿UÙ≈UÊ ‚Ê ŸÊªÁ⁄U∑§ „Í¢U– ∑§÷Ë vz-wÆ ‚Ê‹Ù¥ ∑§ ¬„U‹, ‚Ÿ˜ v~}~ ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U ÿ„U ŸÊ◊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ŸÊ◊ ÕÊ, •Ê¬Ÿ ∞»§Ë«UÁfl«U ∑§⁄U∑§ ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ’ŸÊ Á‹ÿÊ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë, ∞»§Ë«UÁfl«U ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊ ¬Í¿UÃ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ Á‹Áπà M§¬ ‚ ‚’ ∑ȧ¿U Œ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U, „U◊¥ ÿ„U Á◊‹Ê „ÒU– •Ê¬ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ∑§’ ‚ ¬„UøÊŸÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§Ù •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ≈UËflË ◊¥ ŒπÊ ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚ „UË ¡ÊŸŸ ‹ªÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬„U‹Ê ‚¢¬∑¸§ ∑Ò§‚ „ÈU•Ê? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¬„U‹ ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢¬∑¸§ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ⁄UÊ◊ªÙ¬Ê‹ ¡Ë ÿ„UÊ¢ ’Ò∆U „Ò¥U, ߟ∑§Ë ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∞∑§ ∞◊¬Ë „Ò¥U, ©UŒÿ ¬˝Ãʬ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë, ∑ȧ¿U ‚Ê‹ ¬„U‹ ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ⁄U„UÃÊ ÕÊ, ¡Ù ªÈL§ ¡Ë ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ‚ ¬˝Á‚h „Ò¥U– fl ◊ȤÊ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ߢÁ«UÿÊ ßS‹ÊÁ◊∑§ ‚¥≈U⁄U ◊¥ Á◊‹ ª∞ Õ– fl ◊ȇÊÊÿ⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê∞ Õ– fl ’„ÈUà ‚Ö¡Ÿ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊⁄UË ∑ȧ¿U ◊ŒŒ ∑§⁄‘¥U, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊⁄UË å‹ÊÁŸ¢ªU ’„ÈUà ÕË, •Êª ¡’ •Ê¬ ◊⁄UÊ ßÁÄUÊ‚ ¡ÊŸ¥ª ÃÙ •ÊÒ⁄U πȇÊË „U٪˖ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©UŸ‚ Á⁄UÄflÒS≈U ∑§Ë Á∑§ ∑ȧ¿U ∞‚Ê „ÒU, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ߟ ‚’ øÄ∑§⁄U ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬«∏UÃÊ „Í¢U, ‚ËœÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Í¢U– ©UŸ∑§Ù „U◊Ÿ ∞Á≈˛Uÿ◊ ◊¥ ’Ò∆UÊÿÊ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ⁄‘UflÃË ’Ê’Í ¡Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‹ ¡Ê∞¢ª– ©UŸ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥ Ÿ¢’⁄U Œ ŒÍ¢ªÊ, •¬ŸÊ Ÿ¢’⁄U Œ ŒÙ– ◊Ò¥Ÿ •¬ŸÊ Ÿ¢’⁄U ~~~~~~{Æ{Æ ©UŸ∑§Ù Œ ÁŒÿÊ– Á»§⁄U ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‚ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚ »§ÙŸ •ÊŸ ‡ÊÈM§ „UÙ ª∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ •äÿˇÊ ◊„UÙŒÿ ∑§Ù ¬òÊ ◊¥ Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ‚¢¬∑¸§ „UÙŸ ∑§ ¬„U‹ „UË •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ „UÁ⁄UÿÊáÊÊ ∑§ •Ê߸∞∞‚ •Ê»§Ë‚⁄U ...... üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ∞‚.¬Ë. ªÈåÃÊ ¡Ë, ‚’‚ ¬È⁄UÊŸ •Ê߸∞∞‚ •Ê»§Ë‚⁄U „ÒU¢, ◊⁄‘U ¡ÊŸŸ flÊ‹ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∞‚.¬Ë. ªÈåÃÊ ∑§Ù ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ‚ ¬„UøÊŸÃ Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ©UŸ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥ ’„ÈUà ¬„U‹ ‚ ¡ÊŸÃÊ ÕÊ–

257 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl ÷Ë ß‚ ∑§Ê◊-∑§Ê¡ ◊¥ ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊⁄UË ◊ŒŒ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Ÿ¡Á⁄U∞ ‚, ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ÁS≈¢Uª ◊¥ „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ◊⁄‘U »§Á⁄U‡ÃÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ß‚ „UÊÕ ∑§Ê ©U‚ „UÊÕ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, Ÿ∑§Ë ∑§⁄U ŒÁ⁄UÿÊ ◊¥ «UÊ‹ flÊ‹ ÁŸÿ◊ ‚ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ß‚ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§Ù ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ’Í≈UÊ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ’≈U ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ù Á◊‹flÊÿÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ’Í≈UÊ Á‚¢„U ∑§ ‹«∏U∑§ •Ê∞ Õ, ‹fl‹Ë ¡Ë, •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ •⁄UÙ«∏UÊ-•⁄UÙ«∏UÊ ∑§⁄U∑§ ∞∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ Õ– ∞∑§ S◊Ê≈¸U ‚ ŒÙSà Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ’«∏UË-’«∏UË ªÊÁ«∏UÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ÉÊÍ◊Ã „Ò¥U? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— „UÊ¢, ’«∏UË-’«∏UË ªÊÁ«∏UÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ÉÊÍ◊Ã „Ò¥U, ∞‚ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹, ª⁄UË’ ‹Ùª ÕÙ«∏U Ÿ ÉÊÍ◊Ã „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∑§„UÊ¢-∑§„UÊ¢ •Ê¬ ©UŸ‚ Á◊‹? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— Ä‹ÒÁ⁄U¡ „UÙ≈U‹ ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U Á◊‹ Õ– ÁŒÀ‹Ë ∑§Ê ‚’‚ ¬È⁄UÊŸÊ »§Êßfl S≈UÊ⁄U „UÙ≈U‹ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„UÊ¢ ÿ ‚’ ‹Ùª •ÊŸÊ-¡ÊŸÊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ– ÿ •Ê¬‚ ∑§’ Á◊‹ Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù, «U…∏U-ŒÙ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚-¬Ê‚– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù «U…∏U-ŒÙ ’¡ Ä‹ÒÁ⁄U¡ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— „U◊Ÿ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U flÁ¡≈UÁ⁄UÿŸ ‚ͬ Á¬ÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê¬‚ flÊŒÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚Ë ‚ Á◊‹Ê Œ¥ª? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ‚, •„U◊Œ ÷Ê߸ ‚– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •„U◊Œ ÷Ê߸ ‚ Á◊‹Ê Œ¥ª? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ÃÈ⁄¢Uà »§ÙŸ ‹ªÊÿÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ »§ÙŸ ‹ªÊÿÊ, •¬Ÿ »§ÙŸ ◊¥, ‹fl‹Ë Á‚¢„U Ÿ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ù ◊Ò¥Ÿ Ÿ¢’⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, fl„U •Ê¬ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞ªÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ ‚’ øË¡¥ Ÿ¢’⁄U flªÒ⁄U„U ◊ȤÊ ÿÊŒ Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ò¥ ¿UÙ≈U-¿UÙ≈U ‚flÊ‹ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U, •Ê¬ ¿UÙ≈U-¿UÙ≈U ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡M§⁄U ¬ÍÁ¿U∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ’„ÈUà ¬„È¢Uø „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, „U◊ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U, ©UÃŸË ŒÍ⁄U „U◊Ê⁄UË ¬„È¢Uø Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¡Ù ‚flÊ‹ „U◊ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§ ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡⁄UÊ •ÊÁ„USÃÊ-•ÊÁ„USÃÊ ’Ù‹Ù, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪ʖ ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∞∑§-∞∑§ ‡ÊéŒ •‹ª-•‹ª ‚ ’Ù‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ’Ù‹Ê „ÒU, ‹¬≈U∑§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥– ∞∑§Œ◊ ‹¬≈U∑§⁄U ◊à ’ÙÁ‹∞– ∑§◊≈UË ‹¬≈UªË, ÃÙ ’„ÈUà ÁŒÄ∑§Ã „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªË–

258 üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ‹¬Á≈U∞, ◊ȤÊ ÄÿÊ Áø¢ÃÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ¡’ ‹Ë ◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ª∞ .... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚È„ÒU‹ ‚Ê„U’, •Ê¬ ∞‚ ‡ÊéŒ ßSÃ◊Ê‹ Ÿ ∑§⁄‘¥U– •Ê¬ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈˛UË ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ÿ„U ÄÿÊ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¡Ù ‹¬≈UŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ‹¬≈UÙ-∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ‚⁄U Ÿ ’Ù‹Ê– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ‡ÊéŒ ◊à ‹¬≈UÙ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •’ ¡Ù ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§Ù œÒÿ¸ ‚ ‚ÈŸ∑§⁄U ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊Ê»§Ë øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, •ª⁄U ∑ȧ¿U ∞‚ ‡ÊéŒ ÁŸ∑§‹ ª∞ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ‹Ë ◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ¡’ ª∞, ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚’ ‹ªÊ ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— „UÊ¢, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‹ªÊ ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ •¢Œ⁄U ª∞ Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë, ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ‹∑§⁄U ª∞ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á∑§Ÿ-Á∑§Ÿ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸ ÕË? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ⁄UÊà ∑§ ÇÿÊ⁄U„U-‚Ê…∏U ÇÿÊ⁄U„U ’¡ ∑§Ê ≈UÊß◊ ÕÊ, ‹ÊÚ’Ë ◊¥ „U◊ ª∞, fl„UÊ¢ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ „U◊ ‹≈U „UÙ ⁄U„U Õ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÁS≈¢Uª flÊ‹Ù¥ Ÿ •ÊŸ ◊¥ ≈UÊß◊ ‹ªÊ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á∑§‚-Á∑§‚ ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— •Ê»§ ◊⁄UË ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà ‚ÈŸ ‹ËÁ¡∞– „U◊ fl„UÊ¢ ª∞, ÃÙ •M§áÊÊø‹ ¬˝Œ‡Ê ∑§ ‚Ë∞◊ ªÙªÊ¢ª •¬Ê¢ª ¡Ë ∑§ ‹«∏U∑§ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– ©UŸ∑§Ê ߟ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ⁄UÙ‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ ‹fl‹Ë, •⁄UÙ«∏UÊ ∑§ ∑§„UŸ ¬⁄U ªÿÊ ÕÊ– fl ’Ù‹, ¡’ ◊⁄UË »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ’Êà „ÈU߸, ©UŸ∑§Ê ÷Ë »§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ◊⁄UÊ ÷Ë »§ÙŸ Á’¡Ë ÕÊ, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ Œ‚ Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§ Á‹∞ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ Á∑§‚Ë ŸÊÕ¸-߸S≈U ∑§ ∞◊¬Ë ∑§Ù ‹∑§⁄U Œ‚ ¡Ÿ¬Õ ø‹ ¡Ê∞¢, ‚Ê„U’ Á’¡Ë „Ò¥U, ÃÙ Á»§⁄U „U◊ ÕÙ«∏UË Œ⁄U fl≈U ∑§⁄UÃ ⁄U„U, ÁŸ⁄UÊ‡Ê ⁄U„U, »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U »§ÙŸ ∑§⁄UÃ ⁄U„U, ©UŸ∑§ ÷Ë »§ÙŸ •ÊÃ ⁄U„U– fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ∑ȧ¿U ‹Ùª ∑Χ¬Ê‡Ê¢∑§⁄U ¡Ë, ¡Ù ◊„UÊ⁄UÊc≈˛U ∑§ Õ, ¤ÊÊ⁄Uπ¢«U ∑§ ‚Ë∞◊ ◊œÈ∑§Ù«∏UÊ ¡Ë ÷Ë Õ, ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§-ŒÙ ◊¢òÊË •ÊÒ⁄U ∞◊¬Ë •ÊÒ⁄U Õ, fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê ◊Ê„Uı‹ ÃÙ ∞‚Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ ¡Ò‚ ∑§à‹ ∑§Ë ⁄UÊà „UÙÃË „ÒU, ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë Á∑§ •Ê¡ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§⁄U ªÈ¡⁄UŸÊ „ÒU ߟ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù– ◊⁄UË ÃÙ ‚◊¤Ê ‚ ¬⁄‘U „ÒU Á∑§ ∞‚Ê ÄÿÙ¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U ¡’ •Ê¬ ª∞, •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ∑§ıŸ-∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ◊⁄UÊ ∞∑§ ¬Á⁄UÁøà ÕÊ „U‡Ê◊à •‹Ë, ◊⁄UÊ ¡ÊŸŸ flÊ‹Ê „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ªÊ«∏UË ø‹Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ÿ ªÊ«∏∏UË ÕË, ©U‚◊¥ »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ •ÊÒ⁄U •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •¢Œ⁄U Á∑§‚-Á∑§‚ ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸?

259 üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— •¢Œ⁄U ª∞, ÃÙ «UÊÿ⁄‘UÄ≈U ª≈U πÈ‹Ê, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊⁄UÊ ◊Ò‚¡ ÕÊ, ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÒ⁄U ∆UÊ∑ȧ⁄U ‚Ê„U’ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë, ¡Ò‚ ©UŸ∑§ „U◊ ÉÊ⁄U ª∞, ÃÙ fl„UÊ¢ ◊Ò‚¡ ÕÊ, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¿UÙ≈UÊ flÊ‹Ê ª≈U πÙ‹Ê– Á‚ÄÿÙÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹ Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË, ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ »§ÙŸ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ÷Ë „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÉÊÈ‚ ª∞, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ª≈U ¬⁄U ÉÊÈ‚ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U »§ÙŸ ∑§ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ◊¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— •Ê¬ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Á⁄U∞– ◊⁄UÊ Ÿ¢’⁄U fl„UË „ÒU– ©U‚Ë Ÿ¢’⁄U ‚ ’Êà „ÈUÿË– ¡’ ÉÊÈ‚Ê ÃÙ •¢Œ⁄U ¡Ê∑§⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚’ ’Ù‹Ê– fl„UÊ¢ Á⁄U‚å‡ÊŸ ¬⁄U ÷¡ ÁŒÿÊ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ∞∑§-ŒÙ ’Ê⁄U ¬„U‹ ÷Ë ªÿÊ ÕÊ– fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ù߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ª≈U ¬⁄U ∞∑§Œ◊ ª∞, ⁄UÊß≈U „Ò¥U«U ‚Êß«U ¬⁄U ©UŸ∑§, ∑§◊≈UË ‚ ◊Ò¥ ∞∑§ øË¡ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§ÊŸ ¬∑§«∏U∑§⁄U ◊Ê»§Ë øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, •Ê¬ ’«∏U ‹Ùª „Ò¥U, •ª⁄U •Ê¬ ø‹¥, Œ‚ Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§Ê ◊ȤÊ ≈UÊß◊ Œ Œ¥, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ‚’ ∞¬Ë‚Ù«U ’ÃÊ ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U, ∑Ò§‚ ª∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§„UÊ¢-∑§„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ-ÄÿÊ fl„UÊ¢ ’Êà „ÈUÿË? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ò‚ ◊Ò¥ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ∑§„UÊ¢ ’Ò∆U Õ, ∑Ò§‚ ’Ò∆U Õ, ∑§„UÊ¢ ≈U’‹ ‹ªË ÕË, ∑Ò§‚ »§ÙŸ ©U∆UÊÿÊ, ∑Ò§‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UË, ‚Ê⁄UË ’Êà πÙ‹∑§⁄U ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊ ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ-ÄÿÊ ’Êà „ÈUÿË? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¬„U‹ ª∞, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ¬Œ¸ ‚ •¢Œ⁄U •Ê∞, ‡Ê„¢U‡ÊÊ„UË Ã⁄UË∑§ ‚, ø‹∑§⁄U ’ÃÊ ŒÍ¢ ÿÊ flÒ‚ ’ÃÊ ŒÍ¢– ’„ÈUà •ë¿U ‚ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚»§Œ ¬ÿ¡Ê◊Ê ¬„UŸ ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ, ¡Ò‚Ê Á∑§ fl ¬„UŸÃ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U S∑§Ê߸ é‹Í ∑ȧÃʸ ¬„UŸ „ÈU∞ Õ, ¡’ fl •ÊÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¤ÊÈ∑§∑§⁄U ∑§„UÊ-Ÿ◊S∑§Ê⁄U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’«∏UË πȇÊË ‚ ∑§„UÊ •Ê ª∞ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË •ÊÒ⁄U ◊⁄‘U Õå¬Ë ŒË– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ Á∑§ ÿ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë „Ò¥U, ¡Ò‚Ê Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§Ê S≈UÊß‹ „ÒU– ◊Ë’ ◊⁄‘U ÁŒ‹ ‚ ÃÙ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë, ŸËÁà øÊ„U ©UŸ∑§Ë ¡Ù ÷Ë ⁄U„UË „UÙ, ‚Ùø ◊⁄UË ‚◊¤Ê ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿË Á∑§ ∑Ò§‚ fl ◊ÈÁS‹◊ Áfl⁄UÙœË •◊Á⁄U∑§Ÿ ÃÊ∑§ÃÙ¥, ÿ„ÍUÁŒÿÙ¥ ‚ ∑Ò§‚ Á◊‹ ª∞? fl ÃÙ Á∑§ÃŸ •ë¿U ◊È‚‹◊ÊŸÙ¥ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ Õ, Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ flÊ‹ Õ– ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚ ‚..... ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— fl„U ¿UÙÁ«∏U∞, ÄÿÊ ’Êà „ÈUÿË? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊ȤÊ ¬„U‹ ÃÙ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ Á◊‹∑§⁄U πȇÊË „ÈUÿË, Á∑§‚Ë •ë¿U •ÊŒ◊Ë ‚ Á◊‹∑§⁄U πȇÊË „UÙÃË „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÃÈ⁄¢Uà ’Ò∆UÊÿÊ, ◊Ò¥Ÿ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •ÊÒ⁄U »§ÇªŸ ¡Ë ‚ ©UŸ∑§Ê ¬Á⁄Uøÿ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ– fl •¬ŸË ©U‚ ‚Êß«U ◊¥ ≈U’‹ ¬⁄U ’Ò∆U– ©UŸ∑§Ë ‚Êß«U ◊¥ »§ÙŸ ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, ‹ç≈U ‚Êß«U ◊¥, »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ©UŸ∑§ ß‚ ‚Êß«U ◊¥ ¡Ù ŒÙ ‚Ù»§ „UÙÃ „Ò¥U, ©U‚◊¥ ’Ò∆U „ÈU∞ Õ, ‚Ê◊Ÿ flÊ‹ ¬⁄U ◊Ò¥ ’Ò∆UÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‚‹»§ÙŸ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë, ÕÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •¬Ÿ ‚‹»§ÙŸ ◊¥ ÿ„U ‚’ Á⁄U∑§ÊÁ«ZUª Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¿UÙ≈UË ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥– ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ ... ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ’«∏UË ’Êà ’ÃÊß∞ Ÿ–

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261 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— L§¬∞ ¡Ù ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U, ’Ä‚Ê ‹∑§⁄U ∑§ ... üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ’Ä‚Ê ‹∑§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ, ¡Ù ÕÒ‹Ê „UÙÃÊ „ÒU Ÿ, Á¡‚ ’ÁŸ∞ ⁄UπÃ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚∑§Ù ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ‚ ¬„UøÊŸÃ Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥Ÿ fl„UÊ¢ ŒπÊ ÕÊ ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ Á‚ÄÿÙÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹Ê ÷Ë ÕÊ, ∞∑§ ’¢ŒÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ •ÊflÊ¡ ŒË, ¡’ „U◊Ê⁄UË ’ÊÃøËà ø‹ ⁄U„UË ÕË, fl„U πà◊ „UÙ ªÿË •ÊÒ⁄U ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ë ’Êà Á∑§ Á∑§ÃŸ ¬Ò‚ ‹¥ª, ÃÙ ÃËŸ ∑§ ™§¬⁄U ’Êà „ÈUÿË– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∆UÊ∑ȧ⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ¡Ù πȇÊË „UÙ fl„U Œ Œ¥, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊¥ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ê ÖÿÊŒÊ ‚flÊ‹-¡flÊ’ ∑§⁄UŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ◊∑§‚Œ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ÃÙ ß‚∑§Ù ∞Ä‚¬Ù¡ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ∑Ò§‚ ¬Ò‚ Œ∑§⁄U ÁÉÊŸıŸÊ ∑§Êÿ¸ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U øı«∏U „UÙ-„UÙ∑§⁄U •ÊÃ „Ò¥U, ◊Ê∑¸§≈U ◊¥, ¬Áé‹∑§ ∑§ •¢Œ⁄U ’«∏UË-’«∏UË ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– ©U‚ øË¡ ∑§ Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ ⁄‘U≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ’…∏UÊÿÊ– ∞◊¬Ë¡ ÃÙ ’øÊ⁄‘U ÕÙ«∏U ÉÊ’⁄UÊ ÷Ë ⁄U„U Õ– ∞ÄøÈ•‹ ’Êà „UÙÃË „ÒU ¡’ ∑§Ù߸ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∞‚Ê ∑§Ê◊ ¬„U‹Ë-¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U ∑§⁄UÃÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ «U⁄UÃÊ „ÒU– fl„UÊ¢ ©UŸ∑§Ù ‹∑§⁄U •Ê ªÿ Õ– ÃËŸ-ÃËŸ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ◊¥ ∞é‚Ò¥≈U „UÙŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà Ãÿ „ÈU߸ ÕË– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ flÙ≈U Œ¥ª, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U flÙ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Œ¥ª, ÿ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ’øÊ⁄‘U ª⁄UË’ „Ò¥U, ‚Ëœ „Ò¥U– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ‚ ÖÿÊŒÊÃ⁄U ’Êà ◊Ò¥Ÿ „UË ∑§Ë ÕË, ∞◊¬Ë¡ Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÁŸ∑§‹Ã flÄà ‚Êß«U ◊¥ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∆UÊ∑ȧ⁄U ‚Ê„U’, ◊⁄UÊ ÄÿÊ „UÙªÊ? ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ߟ∑§Ê ≈UÙ∑§Ÿ ‹ ¡Ê•Ê– ∞∑§ Á‚ÄÿÈÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹ ∑§Ù ’Ù‹Ê– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊⁄UÊ ‚flÊ‹ ÕÊ Á∑§ ¡Ù ‹Ùª L§¬ÿ ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ •Êÿ Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ Á¡ã„¥U ‹∑§⁄U •Êÿ Õ, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ©Uã„¥U ¬„UøÊŸÃ Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊Ò¥Ÿ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ù ∑§÷Ë ∞∑§-•Êœ ’Ê⁄U ŒπÊ „ÒU– flÒ‚ ◊⁄UË ©UŸ‚ „ÒU‹Ù, „UÊÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÕË– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ ◊Ò¥ ¬„U‹ ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U Á◊‹Ê „Í¢U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •’ fl ◊ŸÊ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– fl ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ◊È‹Êÿ◊ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ– •’ ◊ŸÊ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ù ÄÿÊ „ÒU, ŸÃÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë ÃÙ ◊ŸÊ ∑§⁄U ŒÃÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ÖÿÊŒÊ ∞Ä‚å‹Ÿ ◊à ∑§ËÁ¡∞– Á‚»¸§ „UÊ¢ ÿÊ Ÿ ◊¥ ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬ „UÊ¢ ÿÊ Ÿ ◊¥ ∞Ä‚å‹Ÿ‡ÊŸ ŒËÁ¡∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ Á∑§‚∑§Ë ‚¡‡ÊŸ ¬⁄U üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ‚ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U Á◊‹Ÿ ªÿ Õ? Á∑§‚Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ‚ Á◊‹ ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— øÒŸ‹ flÊ‹Ù¥ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á◊‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„UÊ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡’ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ≈˛U‚ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ¬Êÿ, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ¿UÙ«∏U∑§⁄U .... ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ Á∑§‚ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ªÿ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ©U‚Ë ŒÙSà ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ªÿÊ ÕÊ ¡Ù ⁄UÊà ◊¥ ‚ÊÕ ÕË– ªÊ«∏UË Ÿê’⁄U |wv} ÕË– ◊ȤÊ ¬ÃÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ê»§Ë ªÊÁ«∏∏UÿÊ¢ ÿÍ¡ ∑§Ë ªÿË ÕË¥– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬‚ ¡Ù ¬Í¿UÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ë ∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U Õ, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬ fl„UË¥ ¬⁄U Õ? ÄÿÊ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •ÊÿÊ?

262 üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ŒÙ-ÃËŸ ’Ê⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •ÊÿÊ– „U◊ ÖÿÊŒÊÃ⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ù«U fl«U˜‚¸ ◊¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ ÃÊÁ∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ Ÿ ø‹ ¡Êÿ– „U◊Ÿ ∞◊¬Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ å‹Ê≈U ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ, ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ¬¬⁄U ⁄UπÊ ÕÊ– üÊË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ∑§Ù „U◊ Á‚¢„U ∑§⁄U∑§ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U Õ ÃÊÁ∑§ ©UŸ∑§Ù ‡Ê∑§ Ÿ „UÙ Á∑§ „U◊ ©Uã„¥U ŸÊ◊ ‚ ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– Ã÷Ë fl ’øÊ⁄‘U ¡Ê‹ ◊¥ •Êÿ, Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ fl ¡Ê‹ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ »¢§‚Ã– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬‚ Á∑§‚Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚È’„U ¡Êßÿ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¬„U‹ ÃÙ ŸÊ⁄UÊ¡ „ÈU∞ Á∑§ ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù øÁ‹ÿ, ÃÙ •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ flÊ‹Ù¥ Ÿ «U⁄UÊ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ¡Êÿ¥ª ÃÙ •Ê¬∑§Ù •Ê∆U-Œ‚ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ¬∑§«∏U ‹¥ª– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬∑§Ù Á∑§‚Ÿ ... üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊ȤÊ ◊⁄‘U ◊Ù’Êß‹ ¬⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬∑§Ù üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ∑§Ê »§ÙŸ •ÊÿÊ Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚È’„U ßß ’¡ ¡Êÿ¥ª– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— üÊË ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U Ÿ ≈UÊß◊ ÁŒ‹Ê ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ– ‚ıŒÊ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù Ãÿ „UÙ ªÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ øÁ‹ÿ– „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ „UË ◊Ê‹ ‹ •Êßÿ, ÃÙ fl ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ߟ ‚’ øÄ∑§⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬«∏UÃÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ •Ê¬‚ ¬„U‹ ªÿ ÿÊ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ªÿ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— üÊË Á‚hÊÕ¸ ªıÃ◊ ◊Ȥʂ ¬„U‹ ªÿ Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ¡Ê∑§⁄U ‡ÊÍ≈U ∑§M¢§ªÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ «U⁄U ∑§ ◊Ê⁄‘U ∑Ò§◊⁄UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊŸÊ „ÒU– ÿ ß‚◊¥ ’„ÈUà «U⁄U¬Ù∑§ ÁŸ∑§‹– •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ flÊ‹Ù¥ Ÿ ‚’‚ ÖÿÊŒÊ ª«∏U’«∏U ∑§Ë– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ¬Í¿U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ∑§ıŸ ªÿÊ ÕÊ? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬˝Ò¡¥‚ ◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ üÊË •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë, ∞∑§ ‚ı ∞∑§ ¬˝ÁÇÊÖ ∞‚Ê ÷Ë ‹ª ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ∑§Ê¢ª˝‚ ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ ‚ •ÊÒ⁄U ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ¡Ù«∏U-ÃÙ«∏U ∑§⁄U∑§ ‚’ π‹ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡’ •Ê¬ flÊÁ¬‚ •Ê ªÿ •ÊÒ⁄U ¡’ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ •Êÿ, ÄÿÊ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ ‚ ÿ„U ¬Ò‚Ê ‹∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ „Í¢U– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„¥Uª, ‚ı ¬˝ÁÇÊÃ, ∞∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏U L§¬ÿ ≈UÙ∑§Ÿ ‹∑§⁄U •Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ∞‚ ÕÙ«∏UË „ÒU Á∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹¥ª– ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ Á‚ÄÿÈÁ⁄U≈UË flÊ‹Ê ÷Ë ÕÊ– ¡’ •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ-| flÊ‹ Ÿ ÁŒπÊÿÊ... ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ê ◊Ù’Êß‹ Ÿê’⁄U Á‹ÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl„U ÄÿÊ Ÿê’⁄U ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— •ª⁄U •Ê¬ ◊ȤÊ flËÁ«UÿÙ ÁŒπÊÿ¥ª, ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ∞∑§-•Êœ »§Ù≈UÙ •ÊÿªË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬Ÿ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ∑§Ê ◊Ù’Êß‹ Ÿê’⁄U ©UŸ‚ Á‹ÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÁŒÿÊ, ©UŸ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ Ÿê’⁄U ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊ȤÊ Ÿê’⁄U äÿÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§÷Ë ÿÍ¡ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ– ◊Ò¥ Œπ∑§⁄U ’ÃÊ ŒÍ¢ªÊ– •Ê¬ ∑§Êª¡ ◊¥ Œπ ‹ËÁ¡∞, ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ Á‹πÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU–

263 ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÃËŸ ‚Ê¢‚Œ—üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹, üÊË »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ •ı⁄U üÊË ◊„UÊflË⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ—¬„U‹ ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ •Ê¬Ÿ „UË ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊Ò¥ ‚’ ‚Ê¢‚ŒÙ¥ ‚ Á◊‹ÃÊ ⁄U„UÃÊ „Í¢U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ Á◊‹ Õ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ »§ÇªŸ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ‚Ã∑¸§ ⁄U„UŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË Á∑§ ∞‚Ê ¡Ê‹ «UÊ‹Ê ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ‚’‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬Ÿ „UË ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË? •Ê¬Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ÄÿÊ ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ÿ„UË ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ ◊Ê∑¸§≈U ◊¥ ∞‚Ê ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU ß‚Á‹∞ •Ê¬ ÕÙ«∏UÊ ’ø∑§⁄U ⁄UÁ„U∞ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù ∞∑§ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ »¢§‚ÊŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë ªÿË „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‚Ëœ ‹Ùª „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ ¡Ê‹ ◊¥ •Ê ¡Êÿ¥ª– •Ê¬ ¬⁄U ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë Ÿ¡⁄‘¥U „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬Ÿ ©Uã„¥U ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ v} ∞◊¬Ë¡ •Ê‹⁄‘U«UË ◊ÒŸ¡ Á∑§ÿ „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬ ÷Ë ∞‚Ê ∑§⁄UŸ ‚ ∆UË∑§ „U٪ʖ üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ∞‚Ê Á’À∑ȧ‹ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ë¿UÊ, ÿ„U ª‹Ã ÕÊ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ◊Ê∑¸§≈U ◊¥ ‹Ùª Ÿ ¡ÊŸ ÄÿÊ-ÄÿÊ •»§flÊ„¥U ©U«∏UÊÿ¥ª– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬Ÿ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ÄÿÊ ’Ù‹Ê? üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥Ÿ ◊Ò‚¡ Á∑§ÿÊ– ¡’ ◊⁄UÊ ¬Í⁄UÊ ¬Ä∑§Ê ◊¡’Íà ¡Ê‹ ’Ÿ ªÿÊ, ¡’ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ Á‡Ê∑§Ê⁄U ‹ªŸ flÊ‹Ê „ÒU, Ã’ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ‚ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Êßÿ ‚⁄U, ÕÙ«∏UË ◊ŒŒ ∑§ËÁ¡∞– ßã„¥U ∞Ä‚¬Ù¡ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ◊⁄‘U •∑§‹ ∑§ ’‚ ∑§Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑ȧ‹∑§áÊ˸ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÃÈ⁄¢Uà »§ÙŸ ∑§⁄U∑§ ∑§„UÊ, ∞∑§ ÃÙ Œ‡Ê Á’∑§ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ∞∑§ „U◊Ê⁄UË ∑§ı◊ ∑§Ê ÷Ë ’„ÈUà ’«∏UÊ ŸÈ∑§‚ÊŸ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ◊ÈÁS‹◊ ∑§ı◊ ‚ ÃÊÀ‹È∑§ ⁄UπÃÊ „Í¢U– •◊Á⁄U∑§Ê •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ„ÍUŒË ‹Ùª ÿ„U ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ◊ȤÊ ß‚ ’Êà ¬⁄U ªÈS‚Ê •ÊÿÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— å‹Ë¡ ◊⁄UË ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà ‚ÈŸ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ªÿË „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¡Ù ¬Í¿UÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ •Ê ªÿÊ „ÒU– ’‚ ∑§Ê»§Ë „ÒU– ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– ’„ÈUÃ- ’„ÈUà œãÿflÊŒ– üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË— ¡ÿ Á„U㌖ (ÃଇøÊØ ‚ÊˇÊË ’Ê„U⁄U ø‹ ª∞–)

WITNESS EXAMINED : SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Sanjeev Saxena, you have been requested to appear before the Committee to give evidence regarding the sting operation conducted by CNN-IBN concerning the alleged offer of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, Members of Parliament, in connection with Voting on the Confidence Motion.

264 I may also inform you that under Rule 275 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Lok Sabha, the evidence that you give before the Committee is to be treated as confidential till the Report of the Committee and its proceedings are presented to the Lok Sabha. Any premature disclosure or publication of the proceedings of the Committee would constitute a breach of privilege and contempt of the House. The evidence that you give before the Committee would be reported to the House. You may now take oath. You can speak either in Hindi or English. (‚ÊˇÊË mÊ⁄UÊ ‡Ê¬Õ ‹Ë ªÿË) ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— „U◊ •÷Ë ∑§Ê»§Ë ∞flË«Ò¥U‚ ‹ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ ∑§ ‹Ùª ÷Ë ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ, ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê¢‚Œ •Ê¬‚ ¡Ù ¬˝‡Ÿ ¬Í¿¥Uª, •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§Ê ¡flÊ’ ŒËÁ¡∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ¡Ë, ∞‚Ê ∑§ÁÕà „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¡Ù ‚Ë«UË •Ê߸, ¡Ù ŒπÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‚È’„U •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∞∑§ ’Òª ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¬„È¢Uø– ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ‚„UË „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ «UÁ»§Ÿ≈U‹Ë fl„UÊ¢ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ ∞‚ÙÁ‚ÿ≈U ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¡Ù ªÿ Õ, ©UŸ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ÄÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ©UŸ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ »§Ù‚¸»È§‹Ë ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ©Uã„¥U ÷¡Ê ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ ¡Ù L§¬ÿÊ ©U¿UÊ‹Ê ªÿÊ, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚ ’„ÈUà øøʸ „UÙŸ ‹ªË– •π’Ê⁄U ∑§Ë Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ◊¥ ∞‚ •ÊÿÊ– ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚ ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§Ù •Ê¡ Œπ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ øÒŸ‹ Ÿ ÁŒπÊÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ Õ– You were not traceable to the Media. „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§Ë ÕË– ß‚∑§Ë ÄÿÊ fl¡„U ÕË? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ ÁŒÀ‹Ë ◊¥ „UË ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ •¬Ÿ ÉÊ⁄U •ÊÃÊ ÕÊ, «UÁ»§Ÿ≈U‹Ë •ÊÃÊ ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U ◊⁄‘U •ÊÚ«U ≈UÊßÁ◊¢Ç‚ Õ– ◊Ò¥ •¬Ÿ Á⁄U‹Á≈U√‚ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë ◊¥ •¬ŸÊ ‚◊ÿ Á’ÃÊ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ∑§„UÊ¢ Ÿı∑§⁄UË ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ ∞∑§ ¬˝Êßfl≈U ∑§ê¬ŸË ◊¥ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ Á¡‚ ◊Ò¥ ¿UÙ«∏U øÈ∑§Ê „Í¢U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ⁄‘UÁ¡ªŸ‡ÊŸ Œ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Á⁄U¡Êߟ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ∑§ıŸ-‚Ë ∑§ê¬ŸË ◊¥ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ, ÄÿÊ ’ÃÊ ¬Êÿ¥ª? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ ÁflŸ ∑§ÊÚ◊ ◊ŸË ◊Ⱥ˝Ê ◊¥ ÕÊ ¡Ù ∑§Ù‹∑§ÊÃÊ ∑§Ë ∞∑§ ¬˝Êßfl≈U ∑§ê¬ŸË „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Ÿı∑§⁄UË ¿UÙ«∏U ŒË, ÃÙ •Ê¬ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù üÊË •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ªÿ– •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ Á¡‚ ∞‚ÙÁ‚ÿ≈U ∑§Ù ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ©Uã„¥U »§Ù‚¸»È§‹Ë ÷¡Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬ »§Ù‚¸»È§‹Ë ªÿ Õ ÿÊ πÈŒ ªÿ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊ȤÊ ’Á‚∑§‹Ë »§Ù‚¸»È§‹Ë ÷¡Ê ªÿÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U øË¡ ∑§ Á‚‹Á‚‹ ◊¥ Á∑§‚Ë ‚ Á◊‹Ÿ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ªÊß«U Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„UÊ¢ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§Ë ’„ÈUà ⁄ÒU‚¬ÒÄ≈U ∑§⁄UÃÊ „Í¢U •ÊÒ⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§Ù ∑§÷Ë ÷Ë

265 ◊ŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§ Á‚‹Á‚‹ ◊¥ „UË ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ◊ª⁄U ¡Ù Á‚øÈ∞‡ÊŸ ø¥¡ „ÈU߸, ◊ȤÊ ¡Ù-¡Ù ’Ù‹Ê ªÿÊ, fl„U Á’À∑ȧ‹ Á«U»§⁄‘¥U≈U „UÙ ªÿÊ Á¡‚∑§Ê ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§÷Ë ‚ÙøÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ Á∑§ fl„U ÄÿÊ ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— Ÿ„UË¥, ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ÄÿÊ ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡’ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’Òª ‚ L§¬ÿ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ ∑§⁄U ≈U’‹ ¬⁄U ⁄Uπ ªÿ, •Ê¬Ÿ ŒπÊ Á∑§ L§¬ÿ „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— „UÊ¢, Ã’ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ŒπÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ‚ L§¬ÿ ÁŸ∑§‹ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ÄÿÊ ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ Á∑§ ’Òª ◊¥ L§¬ÿ „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡’ ◊ȤÊ »§Ù‚¸»È§‹Ë •¢Œ⁄U ÷¡Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ Ã’ ߢ«UË∑§≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ¬Ò‚Ê „ÒU– fl„U Á∑§ÃŸÊ „ÒU, ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ë ‚È’„U fl„UÊ¢ ¬„È¢UøŸ ‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬ ∑§„UÊ¢ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Ÿı∑§⁄UË ¿UÙ«∏U øÈ∑§Ê ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ ¬˝Êßfl≈U ∑§ê¬ŸË ◊¥ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ– ◊⁄UÊ å‹‚ •ÊÚ»§ flÁ∑Z§ª ŒÙ ¡ª„UÙ¥ ¬⁄U ÕÊ– ∞∑§ ¡ª„U ◊Ò¥ ÖÿÊŒÊ ’Ò∆UÃÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UË ¡ª„U ∑§◊ ¡ÊÿÊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ªÿÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ ∑§„UŸ ∑§ •ŸÈ‚Ê⁄U ∑ȧ¿U ≈UÊß◊ w| Ÿê’⁄U ¬⁄U Á’ÃÊŸÊ ¬«∏UÃÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Ÿı∑§⁄UË ¿UÙ«∏U øÈ∑§Ê ÕÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Á‚»¸§ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸ ªÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊⁄UË wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Á∑§‚Ë ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ¬ÊÿË ÕË– ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ‚ •ë¿U Á⁄U‹‡ÊŸ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÁŸ∑§‹∑§⁄U ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ ªÿ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊ȤÊ ∞Ç¡ÒÄ≈U ≈UÊß◊ ÿÊŒ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊ÊÁŸZª •Êfl‚¸ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ù’Êß‹ ◊¥ ≈˛U‚ ∑§⁄UŸ ‚ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬∑§Ê ◊Ù’Êß‹ Ÿê’⁄U ÕÊ, ≈UÊfl⁄U ‚ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU, ¬ÃÊ ø‹Ê ÷Ë „ÒU– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ‹ª÷ª Ÿı ‚Ê…∏U Ÿı ’¡ „UÙ¥ª– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ Á»§⁄UÙ¡‡ÊÊ„U ⁄UÙ«U Á∑§ÃŸ ’¡ ªÿ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊⁄‘U ÅÿÊ‹ ‚ ‚flÊ Œ‚ ’¡ ∑§ •Ê‚-¬Ê‚ ≈UÊß◊ ⁄U„UÊ „U٪ʖ ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ •Ê¬∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ‚¢’¢œ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊⁄U «UÊÿ⁄UÄ≈U ©UŸ‚ ∑§÷Ë ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢’¢œ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„U Õ– }, ‚Ê©UÕ ∞flãÿÈ ¬⁄U ‡ÊÊÁ„UŒ Á‚gË∑§Ë ¡Ë ∑§Ê ∞∑§ •ÊÁ»§‚ ÕÊ, ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ÖÿÊŒÊÃ⁄U ≈UÊß◊ fl„UË¥ Á’ÃÊÃÊ ÕÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©U‚ •ÊÁ»§‚ ‚ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ‡ÊÊÁ„UŒ Á‚gË∑§Ë, ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‹Ùª ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ, ß‚Á‹∞ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§÷Ë-∑§÷Ë ©Uœ⁄U •ÊÿÊ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ¬˝‚ ◊¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ◊ËÁ«UÿÊ ◊¥ ÷Ë ◊Ò¥Ÿ ŒπÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ∑§◊⁄UÊ ‡ÊÊÁ„UŒ Á‚gË∑§Ë ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ¬⁄U Á‹ÿÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ©U‚∑§Ê ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U⁄UË •ÊÁ»§‚ ∑§ M§¬ ◊¥ ßSÃ◊Ê‹ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— Ÿ„UË¥, fl ŒÙŸÙ¥ „UË ©U‚∑§Ê ßSÃ◊Ê‹ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊⁄UË Á⁄US¬Ê¢‚Á’À≈UË ‡ÊÊÁ„UŒ Á‚gË∑§Ë ¡Ë ∑§Ë •Ê⁄U ÕÊ, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ë Ã⁄U»§ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕË–

266 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ◊¥ ÿ„U ’ÃÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ª∞ Õ Á∑§ •’ •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§Ê◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— Ÿ„UË¥, ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ‚ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ªÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§Ê◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§M¢§ªÊ– ∑§ß¸ Œ»§ ¡’ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ∑§Ê◊ ÖÿÊŒÊ „UÙÃÊ ÕÊ, ÃÙ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê S≈UÊ»§ ◊ȤÊ fl„UÊ¢ ’È‹Ê ‹ÃÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§÷Ë-∑§÷Ë ¡ÊÿÊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ– ◊⁄UÊ ∑§Ù߸ Á»§Ä‚ ≈UÊß◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, ∑§÷Ë ◊ÊÁŸZª, ∑§÷Ë •Êç≈U⁄UŸÍŸ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§÷Ë ßflÁŸ¢ª ◊¥, ¡Ò‚Ê ÷Ë ∑§Ê◊ „UÙÃÊ ÕÊ, Á¡‚ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ ¬˝‡Ê⁄U „UÙÃÊ ÕÊ, ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ¡ÊÃÊ ÕÊ– ©UŸ∑§Ê •¬ŸÊ ∞∑§ S≈UÊ»§ ÕÊ, ¡Ù ©UŸ∑§Ê ¬‚¸Ÿ‹ S≈UÊ»§ ÕÊ– ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ßÃŸÊ ∑§Ê◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ ÕÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ¡Ê∑§⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ë ÕÙ«∏UË ‚Ë „UÀ¬ Á∑§ÿÊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡’ ∞Á«U‡ÊŸ‹ ∑§Ê◊ ÖÿÊŒÊ „UÙ ¡ÊÃÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ¡ÊÃ Õ– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ ⁄U„UÊ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ⁄UÊ¡ŸËÁÃ∑§ ÁSÕÁà ∞‚Ë ’ŸË „ÈU߸ ÕË Á∑§ v}, v~, wÆ, wv, ww ∑§Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ∑§Ê◊ ÖÿÊŒÊ „UË „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, √ÿSÃÃÊ ’…∏U ªÿË ÕË– •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¡’ ÖÿÊŒÊ ∑§Ê◊ „UÙÃÊ ÕÊ, Ã’ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚Ë ‚◊ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ Ÿı∑§⁄UË ¿UÙ«∏U ŒË? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù Ÿı∑§⁄UË ¿UÙ«∏UË ÕË– ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ◊⁄‘U •¬Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U πÊ‚ ⁄UË¡ã‚ Õ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§ ¡Ù ¬‚¸Ÿ‹ ⁄UË¡ã‚ Õ, ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— «UÁ»§Ÿ≈U‹Ë ◊⁄‘U ∑ȧ¿U ¬‚¸Ÿ‹ ⁄UË¡ã‚ ÷Ë Õ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊ȤÊ ∑ȧ¿U ’≈U⁄U •¬ÊÚøȸÁŸ≈UË¡ ∑§Ê ÷Ë ∞„U‚Ê‚ „UÙŸ ‹ªÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ‡ÊÊÿŒ ß‚ Ÿı∑§⁄UË ∑§Ù ¿UÙ«∏UŸ ‚ ◊ȤÊ ’≈U⁄U •¬ÊÚøȸÁŸ≈UË¡ Á◊‹ ‚∑§ÃË „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ŒÙ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ∞fl¢ ∞∑§ •ãÿ Áfl≈UŸ‚, Á¡ã„¥U „U◊Ÿ ∞Ç¡ÊÁ◊Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§Ê ∑§„UŸÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ fl ‹Ùª ª∞, ÃÙ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ’ÊŒ ◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬„U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ fl„UË¥ ¬⁄U ŒπÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ò‚Ê ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊⁄UÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§Ù߸ ⁄‘UªÈ‹⁄U •ÊŸÊ-¡ÊŸÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÄÿÊ ∑§„UÊ, ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ◊Ò¥ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊ ¬Ê™¢§ªÊ– ◊⁄UË ©U‚ ÁŒŸ Á∑§‚Ë ‚ ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ ©U‚ ÁŒŸ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U •¢Œ⁄U ¡ÊŸ ∑§Ë ∞¢≈˛UË „UË Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹Ë ÕË– ◊Ò¥ ¬„U‹ „UË •¬ŸÊ ⁄‘UÁ¡ªŸ‡ÊŸ Œ øÈ∑§Ê ÕÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ fl„UÊ¢ ◊ȤÊ •¢Œ⁄U •ÊŸ ∑§Ë ∞¢≈˛UË Ÿ„UË¥ ŒË ªÿË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ •¢Œ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ •¢Œ⁄U ¬„È¢Uø „UË Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ¡Ë, •Ê¬ ’„ÈUà •ŸÈ÷flË „Ò¥U •ÊÒ⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ ÿ„U ’ÿÊŸ ŒŸ ‚ ¬Ífl¸ ÿ„U ‡Ê¬Õ ‹Ë „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„¥Uª ‚ø ∑§„¥Uª •ÊÒ⁄U ‚ø ∑§ Á‚flÊ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª •ÊÒ⁄U ÿ„U ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà ‚ø Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ „U⁄U Œ◊ Ã∑§ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄‘UªË– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— Á’À∑ȧ‹ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU–

267 ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ù L§¬∞ Á∑§‚Ÿ ÁŒ∞ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊ȤÊ fl„U ’Òª, •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊¥, ¡’ ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ‚ ¬„È¢UøÊ ÃÙ ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ¡Ù ‚È„U‹ ŸÊ◊ ∑§ ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë Õ, ¡Ù ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ⁄UÙ« ‚ ’Ò∆U Õ, Á¡Ÿ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë •ı⁄U ÕÊ, ©U‚Ÿ ÁŒ∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ ‹ÙŒË ⁄UÙ«U ‚ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ⁄UÙ«U ∑Ò§‚ ª∞? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊ȤÊ ‹ÙŒË ßS≈U≈U ◊¥ ∞¢≈˛UË Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹Ë ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ‡ÊÊÁ„UŒ Á‚gË∑§Ë ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ø‹Ê ªÿÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ◊⁄‘U ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ê»§Ë •ë¿U ÃÊÀ‹È∑§Êà ⁄U„U Õ, ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ, fl„U ◊ȤÊ •¬Ÿ ÷Ê߸ ¡Ò‚Ê ◊ÊŸÃ Õ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ∑§Ê◊ ÃÙ ’„ÈUà „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ¡⁄UÊ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ⁄UÙ«U ¡Êß∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ∞∑§ ¬òÊ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ ¡Ù ◊⁄UË ‚◊¤Ê ‚, ◊⁄‘U Á‹∞ ∑§Ù߸ ¡Ê’ ÿÊ •¬ÊøȸÁŸ≈UË¡ ∑§ Á‹∞ Á⁄U∑§◊¥«U‡ÊŸ ÕÊ– ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ªÿÊ ÃÙ ◊⁄UË ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà ‚È„ÒU‹ ‚ „ÈU߸, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‚ ÕÙ«∏UÊ •Êª ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU– ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ∞∑§ ’Òª ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ •ãÿ •ÊŒ◊Ë ÷Ë ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÕÊ– fl ŒÙŸÙ¥ ◊⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ’Ò∆U •ÊÒ⁄U •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ª∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ∑§ıŸ-‚Ë ªÊ«∏UË „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ‚Òã≈˛UÙ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§Ë •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’Ò∆UÊ Á‹ÿÊ– ‚È„U‹ ∑§Ù, ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕË •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚ ’Òª ∑§Ù •Ê¬Ÿ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ⁄Uπ Á‹ÿÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– fl„U ’Òª ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬∑§«∏∏UÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ©U‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©UŸ ‚÷Ë ∑§Ù •Ê¬ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ‹∑§⁄U •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U Ã∑§ ª∞? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‹ÙŒË ∞S≈U≈U ‚ ÷Ë •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ª∞ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ‚ „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ê ◊Ù’Êß‹ Ÿ¢’⁄U ¬⁄U ∑§Ê‹ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U ’¢Œ ¬«∏UÊ ÕÊ—∞‚Ê ÄÿÙ¥? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ∞‚Ê ß‚Á‹∞ ÕÊ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ©U‚ ÁŒŸ •¢Œ⁄U ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U „ÈU•Ê, fl„U ◊⁄‘U Á‹∞ ∞∑§ Á’À∑ȧ‹ •¡Ë’ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿß¸-‚Ë øË¡ ÕË, ¡Ù ◊ȤÊ »§Ù‚¸»È§‹Ë ’Ù‹Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ¡Ù ◊Ȥʂ Õ˝≈UÁŸ¢ª ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬Ÿ Á¡‚ Ÿ¢’⁄U ‚ •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, fl„U Ÿ¢’⁄U „U◊Ÿ »Í§≈U¡ ◊¥ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– •Ê¬ ¬Ê¢ø-¿U— ’Ê⁄U ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ∞∑§-ŒÙ ’Ê⁄U ∑§Ê‹ ÷Ë •Ê߸, fl„U •Ê¬ Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— fl„U ◊⁄UÊ »§ÙŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ, fl„U »§ÙŸ Á◊. ‚È„U‹ Ÿ ◊ȤÊ •¢Œ⁄U ÷¡Ÿ ‚ ¬„U‹ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U •¬ŸÊ »§ÙŸ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ÿÍ¡ Á∑§ÿÊ, ¡’ ◊Ò¥ ‚»§‹Ë ©U‚ ’¢ª‹ ‚ ’Ê„U⁄U •Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ’Ê„U⁄U •ÊÃ „UË ªÊ«∏UË ⁄UÙ∑§∑§⁄U ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§ »§ÙŸ ◊¥ ¡Ù ߟ∑§Á◊¢ª ∑§ÊÀ‚ •Ê߸ ÕË¥, fl„U Á∑§‚∑§Ë ÕË¢?

268 üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— fl„UÊ¢ ◊Ò¥Ÿ Á¡‚ »§ÙŸ ‚ ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË, fl„U ◊⁄UÊ »§ÙŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ◊⁄UÊ »§ÙŸ fl„U ÕÊ Á¡‚‚ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ’Ê„U⁄U •Ê∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË, Á¡‚‚ ◊Ò¥ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ë∞‚ ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ë ÃÊÁ∑§ ◊Ò¥ ©UŸ‚ ∞åflÊߢ≈U◊¥≈U ‹ ‚∑Í¢§ •ÊÒ⁄U Á⁄UÄflS≈U ∑§⁄U ‚∑Í¢§ Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ ≈UÊß◊ Œ ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ •¢Œ⁄U Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ? •¢Œ⁄U »§ÙŸ ¬⁄U ¡Ù ∑§Ê‹ ∑§⁄UÃ „ÈU∞ „U◊Ÿ ŒπÊ, •Ê¬Ÿ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÃ „ÈU∞ ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ, ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸– •Ê¬ fl„U Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ÿ„U ’ÃÊŸÊ ◊⁄‘U Á‹∞ ÕÙ«∏UÊ ◊ÈÁ‡∑§‹ „U٪ʖ ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¡∑§‹ ‚Êߢ‚ •ÊÒ⁄U ≈UÄŸÙ‹ÊÚ¡Ë ∑§Ê ¡◊ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ‚’ ∑ȧ¿U ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ÿ„U ’ÃÊŸ ◊⁄‘U Á‹∞ ◊ÈÁ‡∑§‹ „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¡Ù »§ÙŸ ◊ȤÊ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚◊¥ ¬„U‹ ‚ „UË øÊ⁄U ÿÊ ¬Ê¢ø Ÿ¢’⁄U »§Ë«U Á∑§∞ „ÈU∞ Õ with the name, not with the proper name but with the name—Sir, Madam, boss, office like that. ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ÿ„U •Ê¬∑§Ù ◊Ê‹Í◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊⁄UË Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË, ÿ„U ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊Ê‹Í◊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄UË Ã⁄U»§ ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ–

MD. SALIM: I strongly recommend Á∑§ ߟ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸ ‚ „U◊¥ ‚ø Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹ªÊ– ߟ∑§Ê ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞— I demand. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Have you been working as an Assistant in the Political Office of Shri Amar Singhji and if so, since when?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: I was working there but not directly attached with Mr. Amar Singh. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ πÈŒ ≈UËflË øÒŸ‹ ¬⁄U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑§Ê◊ ¿UÙ«∏U ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ– wv ÃÊ⁄UËπ Ã∑§ ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ „UË Õ– Is it a fact? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¡Ò‚ ¬„U‹ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ Á‚»¸§ ≈Uê¬⁄‘U⁄UË fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ¡ÊÿÊ ∑§⁄UÃÊ ÕÊ, ◊⁄UÊ ©UŸ‚ ∑§Ù߸ «UÊÿ⁄‘UÄ≈U Á⁄U‹‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Do you use mobile phone number 9811721499? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„U •Ê¬∑§Ê »§ÙŸ „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Is this phone registered in the name of HFCL Company, care of Sanjeev Saxena? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∞ø∞»§‚Ë∞‹ ◊¥ „UË ÖflÊߟ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ÿ„U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ Ÿ¢’⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ¬⁄U „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥ fl„U ∑¢§¬ŸË fl·¸ wÆÆ{ ◊¥ ¿UÙ«∏U øÈ∑§Ê ÕÊ–

269 PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Is your residential address H-186, Ram Krishan Vihar, IP Extension, Plot No. 29, New Delhi? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did you on 20th July, 2008 sent as SMS to all journalists from this mobile phone at 5.25 p.m. stating that Shri Amar Singh will address a Press Conference at 7.00 p.m. at Lodi Estate on that day? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „UÙ Á∑§ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§÷Ë-∑§÷Ë ¡ÊÃ Õ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ wÆ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ¬˝‚ ∑§Ê¢»˝¥§‚ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, ©U‚∑§Ë ‚ÍøŸÊ •Ê¬Ÿ „UË ŒË–

Are you willing to make a request to Voda Fone, which is a service provider for your telephone, to give complete break up and details of the user of this phone including the telephone calls made from and the SMS sent from this phone from 20th to 22nd July, 2008? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Why did you stop using this phone from the evening of 22nd July, 2008? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡’ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÿ„U ãÿÈ¡ S¬˝«U-•Ê©U≈U „ÈU߸, ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ „UË Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ◊ȤÊ ÿ„U ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ »§Ù‚¸ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ◊ȤÊ •¢Œ⁄U ‚ „UË ∑ȧ¿U Á»§‡ÊË ‹ªÊ ÕÊ– ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÿ„U »§ÙŸ ◊Ò¥Ÿ «U⁄U ∑§ ◊Ê⁄‘U ’¢Œ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Why are you not living in your house at IP Extension for the last three weeks? Where have you been staying for the last three weeks and do you have any proof to establish that? SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: I would not say that I was not staying there. I was staying there but not as a regular person. I mean I was just passing most of my time with my relatives. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: How is it that you were not available to anyone else but only to the exclusive stings done by Amar Singhji? •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ¡Ù ŒÙ ÁS≈¢UÇ‚ Á∑§∞, ©UŸ◊¥ •Ê¬ •fl‹’‹ „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù, Ÿ ÃÙ ¬˝‚ flÊ‹Ù¥ ∑§Ù •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ „UË Á∑§‚Ë •ãÿ ∑§Ù •fl‹’‹ „ÈU∞– ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ¡’ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ª∞ •ÊÒ⁄U fl„UÊ¢ ’Ù«¸U ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, ÃÙ ¬„U‹ ©U◊Ê ÷Ê⁄UÃË flÊ‹Ê •ÊÒ⁄U Á»§⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ¡Ù ŒÙ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§∞, ©UŸ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ◊¥ •Ê¬ ◊ı¡ÍŒ „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ÿ„U ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ‚∑§ÃÊ Á∑§ ÁS≈¢Uª •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ ÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ– ◊ȤÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ ¬„U‹ ÄÿÊ ÕÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U Ÿ ◊ȤÊ •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚Ÿ ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§ıŸ ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „ÒU–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Do you admit that you went from Ferozeshah Road to Shri Ashok Argal’s house on the morning of 22.07.08 and delivered a sum of Rs. 1 crore to the MP? What is the name of the man who accompanied you? SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: I do not know the name of the person who accompanied me because he was the person who was actually with Shri Sohel who had told me that this man will accompany me inside.

270 PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: What are the details of the car in which you went to Shri Ashok Argal’s house?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: I went in my personal car.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Is it the car no. DL 3CS 8562?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: No.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: In part in Shri Amar Singh’s residence is registered in the name of M/s Pankaj Arts and Credit?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: I have no idea about this.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: From Ashok Argal’s house did you make a series of telephone calls to Shri Amar Singh’s landline number 011-4616827?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: When I came out and when I thought no one can do anything with me, when I came out of the house because I was so afraid inside and the moment when I came out I tried that number. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚◊¥ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ◊Ò«U◊ ¡ÀŒË ‚ Á◊‹Ê ŒÙ, ∞‚Ê ≈UËflË ◊¥ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ≈˛UÊ¢ÁS∑˝§å≈U ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU–

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: I think that was a different phone which was given to me by Shri Sohel. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ •Ê¬ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ–

üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë– He took that phone back from me.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Did your son apply for admission to Dayal Singh College? Did you sign on the admission form? In whose handwriting is the admission form filled up?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: Definitely. I think, it is mine.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Is it correct that the address has been given of Shri Amar Singh ji’s residence and telephone number also?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: Yes, definitely. The only reason was just to impress the college.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: The same address and the telephone number of Shri Amar Singh ji?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: Obviously, if the address is his then the telephone number would also be of his house.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: The form is here. You can look at the form and say that you have signed this form or not.

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: Yes, I have signed the form.

271 PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Is it true that you carried the money to Shri Ashok Argal’s house in a green bag?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: I did not know that it has money.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: You did not know it?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: No. I did not know it. It was Shri Sohel when he forced me to enter he told me that some money is inside.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: On whose behalf did you delivered the money at Ashok Argal’s house?

SHRI SANJEEV SAXENA: On nobody’s behalf. I think it is Shri Sohel who should reply to that question. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— ¡Ò‚Ê ‚‹Ë◊ ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ, ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈ÒUS≈U ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥, „U◊ ÷Ë ©U‚‚ ‚„U◊à „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‚¢¡Ëfl ¡Ë, ¡Ò‚Ê •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ww ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚È’„U •Ê¬ ‹ÙœË ∞S≈U≈U ª∞, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ‚ Á◊‹Ÿ ∑§Ê ¬˝ÿÊ‚ Á∑§ÿÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ∞ã≈˛UË Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹Ë– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •Ê¬ ∑§„UÊ¢ ª∞? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊Ò¥ ÁŸ¡Ê◊ÈgËŸ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ‡ÊÊÁ„UŒ Á‚gË∑§Ë ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ⁄UÙ«U •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— Á∑§‚ Ÿê’⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê∞ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— fl„UÊ¢ ’Ë¡¬Ë ∑§Ê ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ „ÒU, •L§áÊ ¡≈U‹Ë ¡Ë ∑§Ê •ÊÁ»§Á‡Êÿ‹ ’¢ª‹Ê „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— fl„UÊ¢ ∑§ıŸ Á◊‹Ê ÕÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— fl„UÊ¢ ‚È„ÒU‹ ‚ Á◊‹Ê– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©Uã„¥U •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ‚ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— Ÿ„UË¥, ◊Ò¥ ¬„U‹ ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— fl„UÊ¢ •Ê¬ ¬„U‹ ‚È„ÒU‹ ‚ ÄÿÙ¥ Á◊‹ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹Ê, ÄÿÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡’ ◊Ò¥ ¬òÊ ‹∑§⁄U ¬„È¢UøÊ ÃÙ ‡ÊÊÿŒ ©Uã„¥U Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ „UÙªÊ Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ ß‚ «˛U‚ ◊¥ ¬„È¢Uø¥ª– ¡Ò‚ „UË ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∞¢≈U⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ fl„U ŒπÃ „UË ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ •Ê ª∞ •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ ‚¢¡Ëfl „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „UÊ¢, ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ øÁ‹∞ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU, ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‹ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U?

272 üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ∑§„UÊ¢ ø‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ’‚ ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ∑§Ê ∑§Ê◊ „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§ ‚ÊÕ ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ •Ê¬ •ª¸‹ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ¬„È¢Uø •ÊÒ⁄U ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë •Ê¬∑§Ë ’ª‹ ◊¥ ’Òª ‹∑§⁄U ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, fl„U ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ©U‚∑§Ê ◊ȤÊ •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– fl„U ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÕÊ– fl ŒÙŸÙ¥ ◊⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ◊⁄UË ªÊ«∏∏UË ◊¥ ª∞ Õ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„U ∑§’ ¬ÃÊ ø‹Ê Á∑§ ©U‚ ’Òª ◊¥ ¬Ò‚ „Ò¥U? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡’ ◊⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË •¢Œ⁄U ¬Ê∑¸§ „ÈU߸ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê»§Ë Á‚ÄÿÙÁ⁄U≈UË ÕË– ◊ȤÊ ‹ª ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, fl„UÊ¢ ‚ËÁŸÿ⁄U ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§ •Áœ∑§Ê⁄UË Õ– Ã’ ◊ȤÊ ‚È„ÒU‹ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ’Òª „ÒU, ÿ„U ◊⁄UÊ •ÊŒ◊Ë „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§Ù •¢Œ⁄U ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ¡Ò‚Ê „U◊ ’Ù‹¥ª flÒ‚Ê „UË •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– ÿ„U ◊Ù’Êß‹ „ÒU, Á¡‚‚ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊŸË „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ Ÿê’‚¸ „Ò¥U, ¡Ù ÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù ’Ù‹Ê ¡Ê∞ªÊ, •Ê¬∑§Ù ©U‚ •Ê¬Ù¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ ¡Ë, ◊Ò¥ ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ¡’ •Ê¬ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ⁄UÙ«U ¬„È¢Uø, fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ‚È„ÒU‹ ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ë ¬„U‹Ë ◊È‹Ê∑§Êà „ÈU߸– •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ ∞∑§ ¡ª„U ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄U∑§ flʬ‚ •ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ÷Ê⁄UÃËÿ ¡ŸÃÊ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢’¢œ, •L§áÊ ¡≈U‹Ë ¡Ë ∑§ ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ ‚ •Ê¬∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢’¢œ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— Ÿ„UË¥, ◊⁄UÊ ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢’¢œ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ∑§÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UÊ– ‡ÊÊÁ„UŒ Á‚gË∑§Ë ¬„U‹ ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ◊¥ Õ– •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ÷Ë ‚◊Ê¡flÊŒË ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ’«∏U ŸÃÊ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃ Õ– •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷Ê⁄UÃËÿ ¡ŸÃÊ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ ◊¥ ÿÊ •L§áÊ ¡≈U‹Ë ¡Ë ∑§ ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸ ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ Á„Uø∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊ȤÊ ⁄‘U»§⁄‘¥U‚ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÷¡Ê ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ¡’ ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ⁄‘U»§⁄‘¥U‚ ÕÊ ÃÙ ◊ȤÊ ∑§Ù߸ Á„Uø∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— fl„UÊ¢ •Ê¬∑§Ù »§Ù‚˸’‹Ë Á’∆UÊÿÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ¬Ê¢ø Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— »§Ù‚˸’‹Ë fl„UÊ¢ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹Ê ªÿÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— œ◊∑§ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ‚ ‚Ëœ ¬„È¢Uø ª∞– Ã’ fl„UÊ¢ •Ê¬∑§Ù ’ÃÊÿÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ¬Ò‚ „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— Ã’ ◊ȤÊ ’Ù‹Ê ªÿÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬ •¬Ÿ ’ÿÊŸ ◊¥ ‡ÊÈM§ ◊¥ ’Ù‹ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊¥ ¬„U‹ „UË ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ¬Ò‚ „Ò¥U, ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ Á∑§ÃŸ „Ò¥U– ÿ„U •Ê¬ ’Ù‹ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹Ê– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ÿ„U ÃÙ ¬Í¿UŸ ∑§ ¬„U‹ „UË •Ê¬ ’Ù‹ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ◊ȤÊ ¬ÃÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ©U‚ ’Òª ◊¥ ¬Ò‚ „Ò¥U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ Á∑§ÃŸ „Ò¥U, ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ– ÿ„U ‚’ ∞¢≈˛UË „ÒU– fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ¡’ •Ê¬∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸ ªß¸ ÃÙ ÿ„U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚ ‚ ∑§⁄UÊ߸ ªß¸? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë Ÿ„UË¥– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù »§Ù‚¸ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ•Ê– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊ȤÊ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄U Ÿê’⁄U »§Ë«U „Ò¥U, ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊŸË „ÒU–

273 üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬ ¡’ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ Œπ¥ª ÃÙ •Ê¬ „UË ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ‚Ê◊ÊŸ Á◊‹ ªÿÊ „ÒU, •Ê¬ ©UŸ‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊß∞– •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ ÃÙ ¡’ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ– ¡’ ◊ȤÊ ◊Ê‹Í◊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U ÃÙ ◊Ò¥ ÄÿÊ ’Êà ∑§M¢§ªÊ– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— •Ê¬ Œπ¥ª, ÃÙ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‚⁄U •ÊÒ⁄U ’Ê‚ ‚ „UË ’Êà ∑§Ë– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ‚⁄U, ’Ê‚ ÿÊ ◊Ò«U◊ ∑§Ù߸ „UÙ ÃÙ, ¡’ „U◊ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ¡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÃÙ „U◊ ÄÿÊ ∑§„¥Uª Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ‚Ê◊ÊŸ Œ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ȥʂ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄UË ‚Êß«U ◊¥ ∑§ıŸ „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§Ù Á‚»¸§ ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU •ı⁄U ¡Ù ÷Ë ’ÊÃøËà •¢Œ⁄U „UÙÃË „ÒU, ©U‚ ¬⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝Êé‹◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, •Ê¬∑§Ù Á‚»¸§ ‚ÈŸŸÊ „ÒU •ÊÒ⁄U ©U‚∑§Ù Á‚»¸§ „UÊ¢ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ßÃŸÊ •Ê¬∑§Ù ¬˝‡Ê⁄UÊß¡ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë „UÊ¢, ßÃŸÊ ¬˝‡Ê⁄UÊß¡ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— Á¡‚ √ÿÁÄà Ÿ ¬˝‡Ê⁄UÊß¡ Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÿ„UÊ¢ ’Ù‹ŸÊ „ÒU, ÿ„U ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ÿ„UÊ¢ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU, •Ê¬ ’„ÈUà ÖÿÊŒÊ «U⁄U ª∞, ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë ∑§÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù ∑§Ù߸ œ◊∑§Ê øÈ∑§Ê „ÒU? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¬„U‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— Á»§⁄U •Ê¬ ÄÿÙ¥ ßÃŸÊ «U⁄U ª∞? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ ∞∑§ øË¡ ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊ„Í¢UªÊ, ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ù Á¡‚∑§Ù Á∑§‚Ë øË¡ ∑§Ê •ÊßÁ«UÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ ÄÿÊ „UÙ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ∞∑§ ¡ª„U ’¢ª‹ ◊¥ ¬Ê∑¸§ ∑§⁄UflÊ Œ¥, ’Ê„U⁄U ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ÿ„U ÃÙ •Ê¬Ÿ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬Ê∑¸§ ∑§Ë– •Ê¬ •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ •‡ÊÙ∑§ ⁄UÙ«U ‚ ‚È„ÒU‹ ∑§Ù ‹ ª∞, ∞∑§ •ÊÒ⁄U •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ù ‹ ª∞, ¡Ù ∑Ò§‡Ê Á‹∞ ÕÊ– fl„U ªÊ«∏UË ∑§ıŸ ø‹Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ◊Ò¥ ø‹Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ÃÙ •Ê¬ fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ¬˝‡Ê⁄UÊßÖ«U Õ, Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù Á’∆UÊ Á‹∞ ª∞ •ÊÒ⁄U Á‹∞ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— fl„UÊ¢ ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝‡Ê⁄UÊß¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬ ¬⁄U ¬˝‡Ê⁄U «ÒUfl‹¬ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¬˝‡Ê⁄U Ã’ «ÒUfl‹¬ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ, ¡’ ◊⁄UË ªÊ«∏UË •ª¸⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬„È¢Uø ªß¸ ÕË– ¡„UÊ¢ ◊Ò¥ ÁŸ∑§‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ– ßÃŸË ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÉÊ⁄‘U „ÈU߸ ÕË, ßß ‹Ùª ÉÊ⁄‘U „ÈU∞ Õ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ •ÊÇÿ͸ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ ÕÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ ÕÊ– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ë Á∑§‚‚ ’Êà ∑§⁄UÊ߸? üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚Ä‚ŸÊ— ¡Ë– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, ÿ„U ‚àÿÃÊ ‚ ¬⁄‘U „ÒU– ‚Ê⁄‘U »È§≈U¡ ‚ ¬⁄‘U „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ÷Ë ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ë ’Êà ‚ ‚„U◊à „Í¢U Á∑§ ߟ∑§Ê ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈ÒUS≈U ∑§⁄UÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. •’ •Ê¬ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– (The meeting then adjourned.)

274 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 27 August, 2008 MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members and distinguished colleagues, I welcome you to this meeting of ours. I would first like to apprise you of two notes which have been circulated to you. You must have received them last night or today. One is about the procedure to be followed in dealing with complaints regarding Members of the other House. There are certain precedents, conventions and rules that are applicable. So, I had asked the Secretariat to prepare a note with respect to this procedure. The second note was about the narco-analysis test. That has also been circulated to hon. Members.

The second thing I would like to apprise you of is that we have got a DVD of a recording that CNN/IBN had aired at 8 p.m. on the 11th evening, after they appeared before us, which also has interviews of some other people. For the use of hon. Members, I requested them to get those DVDs also copied and circulated to all Members of the Committee.

I would like to very humbly submit and also appeal to hon. Members one thing. Fortunately or unfortunately, all kinds of news items have been appearing in the media. The press is free to speculate. One of those reports says that the issue has already divided the committee. It says the report is ready and it is four is to three. Somebody said if the Committee goes about it in a fair way, such and such a thing would be done, thereby implying that I am not being fair. Anyway, I thought I should share this with you. Of course, Committees have never been influenced by what has appeared in the press or what external pressure is put from outside. But it is unfortunate because our Committees have a tradition of having been fair. Whatever we may talk, ultimately it is done in a non-party basis, based on the facts and figures we have given in our report to the extent possible. I do not think any aspersion can be cast on any member of the Committee. I just wanted you to take note of that.

Now we have come to this particular stage where we have recorded evidence; this DVD will be circulated; you have got these two notes. Another thing is that we may have to ask for extension of time because our time was only till 29th, the day after tomorrow. If all of you agree, since Parliament is also going to meet at a later date, I thought we could probably…

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We can seek extension till the first day of the coming session.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We could at least ask time till the third week of September.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Make it the first day of the coming session. There are many other meetings to attend in the meanwhile.

MD. SALIM: Best assessment would be of the Secretariat and the Chairman as to how long it will take.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I do not want an impression to go that we are deliberately pushing it under the carpet. All kinds of things are coming in papers. If it is not finished, we will again write to the Speaker and ask for another extension. He has not refused so far. I do not see any reason why he should do that.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Let us not schedule meetings in quick succession because there are many other Committee meetings.

277 MR. CHAIRMAN: Anyway, Malhotraji, Navratris start from 1st October and we cannot, at least I cannot attend meetings. I will not be free for those nine-ten days. So, let us ask time till the end of third week of September. After that we will see. This is not an issue as such. MD. SALIM: In any case, whenever required we are getting extension. MR. CHAIRMAN: We are getting it. In any case, we cannot finish it by day after tomorrow. Therefore, I thought let us initially ask time till the third week of September. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Make it till the end of September. MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, till the last working day of September, whatever day it is. MD. SALIM: We will not be influenced by the news reports. Most of us do not stay in Delhi. Once the meeting is over, we go back to the Constituency. You cannot keep record of reports that come on electronic media. But you can keep a record of the reports appearing in print media. LARRDIS can be asked to circulate the clippings of news reports on this Committee so that we can go through them and can watch the tendency and trend of the newspapers. We should be aware of that. MR. CHAIRMAN: I am just informing this to you. In fact, somebody telephoned me and asked me. I said that we had not yet started discussing the subject and that we had just recorded evidence. MD. SALIM: One of the channels contacted me this morning asking as to what time we were going to meet today. I said that I did not know if there was a meeting scheduled today or not. MR. CHAIRMAN: Somebody said, “You are the Chairman; you are not briefing us, but everybody else is briefing.” I said, “You can take your briefing from whosoever you want. I cannot do this.” PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Nobody is briefing. MD. SALIM: Yesterday it counted notes and verified. That has not appeared in the newspapers. MR. CHAIRMAN: That has not appeared anywhere. It seems the clippings have already been circulated to you. But we will do it again. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Clippings have not reached us. MR. CHAIRMAN: I am not making an issue of it. But you should be aware of it. MD. SALIM: Last time also I mentioned that unnecessary reports have come in the Indian Express and other papers. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, you did. There is one more point. I was going through the verbatim reports of our meetings. There are certain objectionable remarks that were made by Shri Sudhendra Kulkarni. Some unparliamentary terms were used by him. I just wanted to inform the Committee that I have asked them to remove those remarks from the record. He referred to the Prime Minister to him telling lies, etc. There are certain things which are unparliamentary. Whatever unparliamentary terms were used by any witness, those will not form part of the record.

278 MD. SALIM: Even by the Members also. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. That is all right. We know as to what the rules are. I did not want to give directions without taking the Committee into confidence. Now, I would like to invite the views of my colleagues and hon. Members. MD. SALIM: In a Committee system, it is the beauty of our parliamentary system that though representations are on political basis, even though complaints are sometimes of political nature, Committee work in a cohesive manner based on hard fact tried to arrive at truth and not in a partisan manner even though we have political affiliations. The Committee is disturbed as you have rightly pointed out, newspapers and media try to influence or even jump the gun. We should be aware of such things because that brings bad name to the Committee and Parliamentary system. One reason of this Committee also and a series of such Committees in the 14th Lok Sabha was that defend our parliamentary system because this is the way things are made cynical. I would also like to thank the Secretariat for this nice note, which I received today, on the two aspects—narco analysis and Members of the other House. It is informative. Mainly our system, the traditions of the Privileges Committee on this particular aspect emanates from the House of Commons’ traditions, conventions. So, it is only the British parliamentary system which was there. Going by this argument, logic and information, since all this has started in the fifties based on the then prevailing convention or guidelines in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The note itself says that over the years it has changed in that country itself and that the situation did not arise in our country. So, in our system we have not changed that and we stick to old Privileges Committee reports. My submission today should be that now the situation has evolved in the manner of fashion, when the direction of the Speaker or the Chairman is required and based on the fact that the earlier argument is no more holding good. So, what was true in 1958 and what prevailed in the last 50 years, since they have also changed, so, there is nothing we can cite against. Message is not required to change from one House to the other. But it is left to the Member concerned. We cannot go automatically because in our system we should seek the directions of the hon. Speaker and bring it to the notice of the Chairman of Rajya Sabha through the hon. Speaker so that we can change this practice and update it based on the practice and conventions of the House of Lords and the House of Commons where it should be left to the Member concerned. If required the Committee can ask for and Member can think whether he should appear or not. Even then, we cannot compel. Secondly point is about narco analysis. The information is correct and objective but my submission is we are not a court of law. We are not conducting criminal investigation. So, whether in the court of law this holds good or bad as evidence is also not important for us. What is important for us is to get into the bottom of the truth and find out what happened exactly so that the Committee can arrive at a decision. What was evident to me may not be for others. In one of the sittings, I could not stay back, and unfortunately I had some other programme when one of the witnesses was not forthcoming with the information. Again this is a question of keeping the parliamentary institutions also, its values because under the oath or affirmation he was lying for me, but for others, he may not be lying. In that case, if scientific things are available to us, we are not going to conduct it, we should seek the permission and obtain the services of the experts so that the Committee is benefited and some truth or semblance of truth can appear to us.

279 ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ, ◊ȤÊ ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U »Ò§‚‹Ê ÃÙ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „UË ¬«∏UªÊ– ŒÙ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ∑§Ê»§Ë øË¡¥ ∑§„UË ªß¸ „Ò¥U, ◊ê’‚¸ ∑§Ê Á«UŸÊÿ‹, ◊ê’‚¸ ∑§Ù •¬ŸË ’Êà ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê •Áœ∑§Ê⁄U „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡Ù ÷Ë fl ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, otherwise, it may be injustice to them. ©UŸ∑§ Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ¬⁄U fl„U ÃÙ •Ê ªÿÊ, ¡Ù øÊ¡¸¡ „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ê ‚’Á◊‡ÊŸ •Ê∞ Ÿ„UË¥– •ª⁄U ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ù ÷¡¥, ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ‚ ¬⁄UÁ◊‡ÊŸ ‹∑§⁄U •ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ©U‚ ∑§⁄‘¥U– But something should be done. If we cannot do directly, we can send it to the Rajya Sabha Chairman „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÿ-ÿ øÊ¡¸¡ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •Ê¬ ©UŸ∑§Ë •ÙÁ¬ÁŸÿŸ ‹∑§⁄U ∑§ „U◊¥ ÷¡¥– fl ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„¥U, fl ∑§⁄‘¥¢, „U◊¥ ∞‹Ê™§ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„¥U, „U◊ ∑§⁄‘¥U, ¬⁄UãÃÈ ©UŸ∑§Ê ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ Á’À∑ȧ‹ ∑ȧ¿U ÷Ë Ÿ •Ê∞, ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •ª⁄U •Ê¬Ÿ flœ¸Ÿ ¡Ë ‚ Á⁄U≈UŸ ‚’Á◊‡ÊŸ ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ◊Ê¢ªË „ÒU, fl„U ÷Ë ‡ÊÊÿŒ ◊ÈÁ‡Ô∑§‹ „ÒU– Perhaps we cannot even write to the Members of Rajya Sabha. •ª⁄U „U◊ ©Uã„¥U Ÿ„UË¥ Á‹π ‚∑§Ã Á∑§ •Ê¬ ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê∑§⁄U ’ÃÊŸÊ øÊ„¥U ÃÙ ’ÃÊ∞¢, Á‹π ∑§⁄U ÷¡ Œ¥– ß‚ ∑§‚ ◊¥ ◊⁄UË ⁄UÊÿ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ù ÷¡ Œ¥– In that case, my suggestion is that Rajya Sabha Chairman can deal with it the way he deem fit. ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ, ÿ ¬Í⁄UË ¡Ù ∑§êå‹¥≈U „ÒU fl„U ∞∑§ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ¬⁄U •ÊœÊÁ⁄Uà „ÒU– ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ◊¥ Á¡Ÿ ŒÙ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë øøʸ ∑§êå‹¥≈U ◊¥ Á‹π ∑§⁄U ∑§Ë ªß¸ „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ê Á∑§‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ê ∑§„UË¥ ∑§Ù߸ ßãflÊÀfl◊¥≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬ÊÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ– ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ©UŸ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ◊Òê’‚¸ ∑§ ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ù ⁄‘U»§⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞, ∑§Ù߸ ‚’S≈¥UÁ‡Êÿ‹ ’Êà „UÙ ÃÙ •‹ª „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ ∑§Ù߸ ‚’S≈¥UÁ‡Êÿ‹ ’Êà „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ÃÙ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ù ÷¡Ê ¡Ê∞ ÿÊ ©UŸ‚ ∑ȧ¿U ¬Í¿UÊ ¡Ê∞, ◊Ò¥ ß‚‚ ‚„U◊à Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ë ∑§ß¸ «UËflË«UË¡ ÿÊ ‚Ë«UË¡ •Ê߸ „Ò¥U •ı⁄U πÊ‚Ãı⁄U ‚ ∞∑§ ‚Ë«UË, ¡Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U¡Ë Ÿ ÷¡Ë „ÒU, fl„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ ‚ ‚¢’¢ÁœÃ „ÒU, ¡Ù ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ∑§ øÒŸÀ‚ ¬⁄U ÷Ë •Ê߸ „ÒU •ı⁄U ©UŸ øÒŸÀ‚ ◊¥ ©U‚◊¥ ∑ȧ‹SÃ Ÿ ¡Ù ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§„UË „Ò¥U, fl ’„ÈUà ’«∏U-’«∏U ŸÃÊ•Ù¥ ‚ ‚¢¢’¢ÁœÃ ÷Ë „Ò¥U– •ª⁄U ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ë ß‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ¬Í¿UÃÊ¿U ∑§Ë ¡Ê∞ªË ÃÙ Á»§⁄U ©U‚◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ’«∏UË ¬ÊÁ≈¸UÿÙ¥ ∑§ ’«∏U ŸÃÊ•Ù¥ ¬⁄U ÷Ë ’ÊÃ¥ ©U∆UŸ ‹ªÃË „Ò¥U– ∑ȧ‹SÃ ∑§Ê ¡Ù •ÙÁ«UÿÙ ∑Ò§‚≈U „ÒU, fl„U •÷Ë „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù ‚Ê⁄‘U øÒŸÀ‚ ¬⁄U •ÊÿÊ „ÒU Á¡‚◊¥ fl ÿ„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ’ÃÊÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬Ò‚Ê ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÿÊ, Á∑§‚ Ÿ •⁄‘¥U¡ Á∑§ÿÊ, Á∑§‚Á‹∞ ÿ ‚’ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ– ∞∑§ ◊ê’⁄U „UË ¡Ù ∑§êå‹Ÿ¥≈U „ÒU fl„U ∑§„UÃÊ „ÒU, Á¡‚ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ •÷Ë ŒπÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, øÒŸ‹ ¬⁄U ŒπÊ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ, ¡Ù ©U‚∑§Ë ‚Ë«UË •Ê߸ „ÒU– Á»§⁄U ÿ„U ∞∑§ •ı⁄U ◊Ê◊‹Ê ∞‚Ê ’Ÿ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU, Á¡‚∑§Ë øŸ ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ •¢Ã „UÙŸ flÊ‹Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ¡Ù ‚’S≈¥UÁ‡Ê∞≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, ∑§„UË¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ÿÊ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ∑§Ê, ©Uã„¥U ’È‹ÊŸÊ ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿UŸÊ ÿÊ ©Uã„¥U ⁄‘U»§⁄U ∑§⁄UŸÊ, ß‚∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ •ıÁøàÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚◊¥ øÊ¡¸ ÃÙ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— øÊ¡¸ „ÒU ÃÙ Á»§⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ù ß‚◊¥ ∑ȧ¿U ÁŒπÊ߸ ¬«∏UÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë Ÿ ÷Ë ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÷Ë ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ŸÊ◊ ‚ ÄÿÊ ◊Ë’, Á¡‚Ÿ ÷Ë ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ „UÙ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù ‹Ùª ª∞, ¡Ù ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊ ª∞, fl„UË •Ê¬ Œπ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ Ÿ„UË¥ ª∞– Nobody is seen in that CD. •Ê¬ Á∑§‚ ∑§„¥Uª? The footage is there. There is nothing in the footage. ∑§„UŸ ‚ ÄÿÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ ÷Ë „ÒU, ≈UÁã≈UU«U ‡ÊˇÊÊ ∑§Ë fl¡„U ‚ fl„U ÁŒπ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„UÊ, ÿ„U •‹ª ’Êà „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— fl„U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚ ÁŒπ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù ’Ò∆UÊ „ÒU fl„U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚ ÁŒπ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ¡’ ªÊ«∏UË ’Ò∑§ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚ ÷Ë ‡ÊÍ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ªÊ«∏UË ∑§ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ •’ Ã∑§ øÿ⁄U◊Ÿ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ ¬Í¿U ª∞ ‚flÊ‹Ù¥ •ı⁄U flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ‚ ÷Ë ◊Ê‹Í◊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU Á∑§ ŒÙŸÙ¥ ∞◊¬Ë¡ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U? ÿ„U »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ S¬cÔ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ß‚ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ ŒÙ ‹Ùª „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚„UÊÿÃÊ ∑§⁄U

280 ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U •ı⁄U fl ‚ŒSÿ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U– „U◊UÊ⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ªÊ«∏UË ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ ªÊ«∏UË ∑§ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊÃ „Ò¥U •ı⁄U •ÙÕ •Ê⁄U ∞»§◊¸‡ÊŸ ‹∑§⁄U fl„U ’ÃÊ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ ‹Ùª Õ? fl„U »§Ù≈UÙ Œπ∑§⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ù •Êß«¥UÁ≈»§Ê߸ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ’ª‹ ◊¥ ’Ò∆U ‚È„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË, ¡Ù Á∑§ •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚ Ÿ ’È‹Ê∞¢, ∑§fl‹ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ¬Í¿UŸ ‚ „U◊¥ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’ÊÃ, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥ Á¡Ÿ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë »§Ù≈UÙ •ÊÃ •ı⁄U ¡ÊÃ „ÈU∞ •Ê߸ „ÒU, ©UŸ◊¥ ∑§ß¸ ‹Ùª „Ò¥U, Á¡Ÿ∑§Ù „U◊ ¬„UøÊŸ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ¡Ù •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ’¢ª‹ ◊ ¢¡Ê ⁄U„U Õ •ı⁄U ¬È≈U¡ ◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ê ’¢ª‹Ê ÷Ë ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ– «˛UÊßfl⁄U ‚ ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬„UøÊŸŸ ◊¥ ◊ŒŒ ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ÿÁŒ fl„U ‚ø Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹ÃÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ∑§„UÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃ Õ Á∑§ ∑§ı߸ ’Ò∆UÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ò∆UÊ „ÒU •ÕflÊ ∑§ıŸ ’Ò∆UÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, ÃÙ „U◊ ©UŸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ‚ ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ê¬ŸË Á∑§ÿÊ– I am telling this because Shri Saxena made a charge that someone was forcibly put with him. fl ‚À»§ Á«˛UflŸ ∑§Ê⁄U ◊¥ •Ê∞, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ù ¡’⁄UŸ ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ– The person is visible clearly. Á¡‚Ÿ ’ÊÚÄ‚ ∑§Ù πÙ‹Ê, πÊ‚Ãı⁄U ‚ ¬Œ¸ ∑§Ù «UÊ‹Ê– ¡’ fl„U ¬ŒÊ¸ «UÊ‹ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ß‚∑§Ê ÿ„U •Õ¸ „ÒU Á∑§ he wanted to hide something. That means some operation was on. ¡’ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U •Ê߸ ÕË, Á¡‚◊¥ ¬Ò‚ ∑§ ∞Ä‚ø¥¡ „UÙ ⁄U„UË ÕË, ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ∞◊¬Ë ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹ Á∑§ ¬ŒÊ¸ ‹ªÊ ŒÙ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ Á¡‚ Á⁄U‚Ëfl ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ ¬ŒÊ¸ ‹ªÊ ŒÙ, ≈U’‹ ∑§ ŸËø ‚ ŒÙ– Á¡‚Ÿ ∞∑§ê¬ŸË Á∑§ÿÊ, ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ∑§Ë »È§≈U¡ ŒπŸ ‚ ∞‚Ê ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„¥U »§Ù‚˸∞’‹Ë •ÕflÊ ªŸ åÔflÊߢ≈U ¬⁄U ‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U •¬ŸË ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ß‚ËÁ‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë ÕË– ÃË‚⁄UË ’ÊÃ, fl„U ¬‚¸Ÿ ∑˝Í§Á‡Êÿ‹ „ÒU, Á¡‚Ÿ »§ÙÁ‚¸∞’‹Ë ©U‚∑§Ù «UÊ‹Ê „ÒU– fl„U ∑§ıŸ ¬‚¸Ÿ „ÒU? flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÷Ë fl„U ÁŒπÊ߸ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÿ„U flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ’Ê⁄U-’Ê⁄U ŒπË „ÒU– ∑§‹⁄U ◊¥ ŒπŸ ‚ ÖÿÊŒÊ S¬cÔ≈U ÁŒπÊ߸ ŒÃÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ¡Ù •ÊŒ◊Ë fl„UÊ¢ ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, fl„UË •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê„U⁄U ÷Ë ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— Á¡‚Ÿ ÿ„U ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚Ÿ Sflÿ¢ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ ∞◊¬Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ŒπÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‹Á∑§Ÿ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ‚ ¬Í¿UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù ‚ÊÕ ◊¥ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U ¡Ê∞ªÊ, ¡Ù ◊ҟȬȋ‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄‘UªÊ, •Ê¬ ÄÿÊ ‚◊¤ÊÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl„U ߢÁ«U¬¢«¥U≈U „UÙªÊ? ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á‚hÊÕ¸ ÷Ë ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§Ê ¬Ê≈¸U ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— fl ŒÙ ‹Ùª Õ– ‹Á∑§Ÿ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ‚ ÃÙ ¬Í¿U „UË ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— «˛UÊßfl⁄U „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ◊ÊÁ‹∑§ ÷Ë „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, •ı⁄U „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ◊ÊÁ‹∑§ ∑§Ë ∑¢§‚ÒÁã‚‚ ‚ ªÊ«∏UË ‹ ªÿÊ „UÙ– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— øÊ„U fl„U ◊ÊÁ‹∑§ „UÙ ÿÊ «˛UÊßfl⁄U „UÙ, ©U‚‚ ¬Í¿UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ •Ê¬ÁûÊ „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬∑§Ù ¡Ù ÁŒπÊ߸ ŒÃÊ „ÒU, ©U‚Ë ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ÃÙ •Ê¬ »Ò§‚‹Ê ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ß‚Á‹∞ ∑ȧ‹SÃ flªÒ⁄U„U ∑§Ë flËÁ«UÿÙ Œπ ‹Ã „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ÃÙ ¬Í¿UŸÊ „UË øÊÁ„U∞, ¡Ù fl„UÊ¢ ◊ı¡ÍŒ „ÒU– Á¡‚∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ª∞ Õ, ©U‚Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë Ÿ ’È‹Ê∞¢, ∞‚Ê ∑Ò§‚ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU? üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ◊„UÙŒÿ, ß‚ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë ∑§ß¸ ’Ò∆U∑¥§ „UÙ øÈ∑§Ë „Ò¥U •ı⁄U •÷Ë Ã◊Ê◊ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ Ÿ •¬ŸË ÷ÊflŸÊ∞¢ √ÿÄÔà ∑§Ë „Ò¥U– ◊⁄UÊ •¬ŸÊ ◊ÊŸŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ¬⁄U ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ÁŸªÊ„¥U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÿ„U ‚Á◊Áà ÄÿÊ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ŒÃË „ÒU? ∞∑§ ’„ÈUÃ

281 ’«∏UÊ flÊ∑§ÿÊ ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ, Á¡‚ ¬⁄U ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê ∑§Ë ÁŸªÊ„¥U ÕË¥– ß‚ ‚¢’¢œ ◊¥ ∑§ß¸ ªflÊ„U ¬‡Ê Á∑§∞ ª∞ „Ò¥U– ◊⁄UÊ ◊ÊŸŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ¡Ë ¡’ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ¬‡Ê „ÈU∞ Õ •ı⁄U Á¡‚ Ã⁄UË∑§ ‚ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚÷Ë ‚flÊ‹Ù¥ ∑§ ¡flÊ’Ù¥ ∑§Ù Ÿ∑§Ê⁄UÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ◊¢ S¬cÔ≈U ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚„UË ¡flÊ’ ÁŒ∞ „Ò¥U– ©U‚Ë ¬⁄U ∑§ß¸ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ Ÿ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ë „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ∑§Ù߸ ∞‚Ë ∞¡¥‚Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UflÊ ‚∑¥§– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÿ„U •ÊÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚‚ ‚àÿÃÊ ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU– Á¡‚ ¬˝∑§Ê⁄ U‚ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U⁄U øË¡ ∑§Ê Á«UŸÊÿ‹ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚‚ ÿ„UË ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚àÿ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ Á¿U¬ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÿ„U •ÙÕ ‹ŸÊ Á∑§ ‚àÿ ∑§ •‹ÊflÊ „U◊ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹¥ª, „U◊¥ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§„UË¥ Ÿ ∑§„UË¥ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚àÿ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê߸ „ÒU– ÿ„U ’Êà •Ê߸ „ÒU Á∑§ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UflÊ߸ ¡Ê∞? ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ÄÿÊ ⁄UÊß≈UÔ˜‚ „Ò¥U, fl„U ∑§◊≈UË Ãÿ ∑§⁄‘UªË •ı⁄U Ãÿ ∑§⁄‘UªË Á∑§ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U „UÙŸÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥– ◊⁄UÊ ◊ÊŸŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê¬ Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë ‹ˇÿ ¬⁄U •fl‡Ôÿ ¬„È¢Uø¢– •Ê¬Ÿ ∑§ß¸ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ ¬˝SÃÈà ∑§Ë „Ò¥U, Á¡‚ ¬⁄U ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê •äÿˇÊ Ÿ ∞¬˝ËÁ‡Ê∞≈U ÷Ë Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚‚ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ê ‚êÔ◊ÊŸ ÷Ë ’…∏UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ÿ„UË øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ∑§◊≈UË Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ Á∑§‚Ë ÁŸcÔ∑§·¸ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø– ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ê ∑§Êÿ¸∑§Ê‹ Á∑§ÃŸÊ ‹ê’Ê Áπ¢øªÊ, ÿ„U ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ ’Êà ÿ„U „ÒU ∑§◊≈UË Á∑§‚Ë ÁŸcÔ∑§·¸ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø •ı⁄U Œ‡Ê ∑§Ù ÿ„U ‹ª Á∑§ ∑§◊≈UË Ÿ ÁŸcÔ¬ˇÊÃÊ ‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ë „ÒU •ı⁄U •¬ŸË Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ‚’Á◊≈U ∑§Ë „ÒU– ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚àÿÃÊ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù Á¡‚ ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏U, ©U‚◊¥ øÊ„U Á¡ÃŸÊ ‚◊ÿ ‹ª– ∑§◊≈UË •¬Ÿ ŒÊÿ⁄‘U ◊¥ ⁄U„U∑§⁄U, ‚àÿ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’ÊäÿÃÊ Ÿ „UÙ, Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§Ë ’ÊäÿÃÊ Ÿ „UÙ– ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ê¢ø Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U „UÙ •ı⁄U Œ‡Ê ÿ„U ∑§„U Á∑§ ∑§◊≈UË Ÿ ߸◊ÊŸŒÊ⁄UË ‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ë „ÒU–

üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊„UÙŒÿ, „U◊ ‹Ùª ¡Ù ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚◊¥ •Ê¡ ∑§Ê ∞¡¥«UÊ „ÒU “Note on procedure for dealing with complaints against Members of the other House.” •ı⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ „ÒU “Note on narco analysis.” ß‚◊¥ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§ ÁfløÊ⁄U ‚ÈŸ „Ò¥U– •÷Ë Ã∑§ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ‚ŒŸ ‚ ‚ŒSÿ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§Ë ¬⁄Uê¬⁄UÊ Ÿ„UË¢ „ÒU– ÿ„UÊ¢ „UÊ©U‚ •Ê»§ ∑§ÊÚ◊ã‚ ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU– ’Œ‹Êfl „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ¡Ò‚ÊÁ∑§ ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ¡’ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ‚ŒŸ ∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê ‚Êˇÿ ‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ¡’ ÃâÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ ∑§ß¸ Á’ãŒÍ •Ê∞¢ª ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ‚÷Ë ‚ÊˇÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ M§¬ ‚ ŒπŸÊ „U٪ʖ ÿ„U ¬Í⁄UË ¡Ê¢ø ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ¬⁄U •ÊœÊÁ⁄Uà „ÒU– ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ Ÿ ¡Ù Á‹Áπà ∑§ê¬‹¥≈U S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ù ŒË ÕË, fl„U •’ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „ÒU– ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë Ÿ »§⁄U◊ÊÿÊ Á∑§ ∞.’Ë. ’h¸Ÿ ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ◊Ê¢ªŸÊ „ÒU– ∞∑§ Á‚hʢà ’ŸÊ Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê∞, ¡Ò‚ÊÁ∑§ •÷Ë ∞.’Ë. ’h¸Ÿ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ •ÊÿÊ, ©UŸ‚ ÷Ë ∑§Ù߸ ⁄UÊÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ŸË „ÒU– ÿÁŒ ©UŸ‚ Á‹Áπà ‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÿÊ ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ŒÍ‚⁄‘U ‚ŒŸ ∑§ øÿ⁄U◊Ÿ ‚ ¬⁄U◊ˇʟ ‹ŸÊ, ÿ„U ’„ÈUà „UË ¡Á≈U‹ ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU– •÷Ë Ã∑§ ∑§Ë ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ¬˝Á∑˝§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– fl·¸ v~z} ∑§Ê ŒÎcÔ≈UÊãà ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∞‚Ê „ÒU– ÿÁŒ ‚’ ∑ȧ¿U ’Œ‹ŸÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ÃâÿÙ¥ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ∞∑§ Á’ãŒÈ ÃÙ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ¬˝ÙÁ‚¡⁄U ∑§Ù ’Œ‹Ÿ ∑§ Á‹∞ ‹Á¡S‹Á≈Ufl ÿÊ „U◊Ê⁄UÊ ¡Ù ◊¡ ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊ã≈U ¬˝ÁÄÔ≈U‚ „ÒU, ©U‚ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ øã¡ ∑§⁄UŸÊ, ∞∑§ •‹ª ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU– •÷Ë Ã∑§ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ¬⁄Uê¬⁄UÊ ◊¥ ¡Ù ¬˝ÙÁ‚¡⁄U „ÒU, ÄÿÊ ‚Á◊Áà ©U‚∑§ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄‘UªË ÿÊ Ÿÿ ¬˝ÙÁ‚¡⁄U ∑§Ù ∞«UÙå≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU? ÿ ŒÙ ÷ʪ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥ ¬„U‹ ∞¡á«UÊ ¬⁄U ’Ù‹ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– •÷Ë Ã∑§ ¡Ù SÕÊÁ¬Ã ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ¬˝áÊÊ‹Ë „ÒU, ¡Ù ‚¢‚ŒËÿ Á‚S≈U◊ „ÒU, ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ∑§Êÿ¸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡Ù SÕÊÁ¬Ã ¬˝ÙÁ‚¡⁄U „ÒU, ©U‚Ë ¬⁄U ø‹ŸÊ „ÒU Ã’ ÃÙ •Êª ’…∏UÊ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– ÿÁŒ ß‚ Ÿ∞ Á‚⁄‘U ‚ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ∑§◊≈UË •Ÿ¢Ã∑§Ê‹ Ã∑§ ø‹ªË– ß‚ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ù ÁŸÿà Á∑§ÿÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ– ¡Ò‚ÊÁ∑§ •Ê¬ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •ª‹ ◊„UËŸ ∑§ ÃË‚⁄‘U „UçÃ Ã∑§ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ‚◊ÿ Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, Á»§⁄U ŒπÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Êª ÄÿÊ „U٪ʖ ¡’ ¬˝Á∑˝§ÿÊ ◊¥ ∑§⁄UÙ߸ ’Œ‹Êfl ‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU, ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U ∑§Ù ø¢¡ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ÿ„U ∞∑§ »¢§«UÊ◊¥≈U‹ ߇ÔÿÍ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „ÒU, Á»§⁄U ≈UÊß◊ ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •Ÿ¢Ã∑§Ê‹ Ã∑§ ÿ„U ‚Á◊Áà ø‹ªË– ÿ„U ¬„U‹Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ŒÍ‚⁄Ë ’ÊÃ, ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ŸÊ⁄U∑§Ù ∞ŸÊÁ‹Á‚‚ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§„UË ªÿË „ÒU, ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ Ÿ ∑§Ù≈¸U „Ò¥U, Ÿ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ ∞‚Ê ◊ÊŸÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÿ„U ‚Á◊Áà ∑¢§¬Ë≈¥U≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§ ◊Ê◊‹ „Ò¥U, ©U‚◊¥ ßãflÁS≈Uª‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡Ù ∑Ò§Á◊∑§‹ •ı⁄U

282 ≈UÁÄÔŸ∑§‹ ßãflÁS≈Uª‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, «UÊÄÔ≈U‚¸ ∑§Ë ≈UË◊ ©U‚∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UÃË „ÒU, ¬ÈÁ‹‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃË „ÒU– ’„ÈUà „UË •ë¿UË Ã⁄U„U ‚ ‚Ê⁄UÊ ◊Ò≈ËUÁ⁄Uÿ‹ ‚ÁøflÊ‹ÿ Ÿ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¢ ‚∑˝≈UÁ⁄U∞≈U ∑§Ù œãÿflÊŒ ŒŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑§Ê»§Ë ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒË „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ S¬cÔ≈U M§¬ ‚ •¢Á∑§Ã Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ©U‚∑§Ù Ÿfl¸‚ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU, Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ©U‚∑§Ù ◊«UËÁ‚Ÿ Œ∑§⁄U ©Uª‹flÊŸ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë ¡ÊÃË „ÒU, ß‚◊¢ ÿ ’Êà ŒË „ÈU߸ „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU,

“Although inhibitions are generally reduced, people under the influence of truth serums are still able to lie and even tend to fantasize.” Ã’ ÷Ë fl„U ¤ÊÍ∆U ’Ù‹ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ ‚È߸ Œ ÷Ë Œ¥ª, •ª⁄U fl„U ◊Ÿ ∑§Ê ’„ÈUà ŒÎ…∏U „ÒU, ÿÁŒ fl„U Á’À∑ȧ‹ S≈˛UÊ¢ª „ÒU, ÃÙ fl„U ¤ÊÍ∆U ’Ù‹ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ •ª⁄U fl„U NUŒÿ ∑§Ê ∑§◊¡Ù⁄U „UÙ, ’Ë¬Ë „UÙ, ÃÙ fl„U ª«∏U’«∏UÊ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ¡’ ÿ„U ∞«UÁ◊Á‚’‹ ∑§Ù≈¸U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ¡’ ÿ„UÊ¢ ÷Ë ¤ÊÍ∆U ’Ù‹Ÿ ∑§Ê øÊ¢‚ „ÒU, ÃÙ Á»§⁄U ŸÊ⁄U∑§Ù ≈US≈U ∑§Ë ©U¬ÿÙÁªÃÊ ÄÿÊ „ÒU? •ª⁄U ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà ŸÊ⁄U∑§Ù ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UŸ ‹ªªË...... ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬„U‹ ‹Ê‹Í¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ⁄U∑§Ù ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÊÿ¥ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬„U‹ „UË ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ¬ÊÁ‹Á≈U∑§‹ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ◊¥’⁄U ∑§ Á„U‚Ê’ ‚ ∑§Ê◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄UÃ, „U◊ Œ‹Ù¥ ∑§Ë ‚Ë◊Ê•Ù¥ ‚ ™§¬⁄U ©U∆U∑§⁄U ÃâÿÙ¥ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ‚Êˇÿ ◊¥ ¬„È¢UøŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ß‚Á‹∞ øÊ„U ‹Ê‹Í ¬˝‚ÊŒ¡Ë „UÙ¥ ÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ’«∏U ŸÃÊ „UÙ¥, ¡’ „U◊ ‚Á◊Áà ◊ ¢„Ò¥U, ÃÙ „U◊ ©UŸ ‚’ øË¡Ù¥ ∑§Ù äÿÊŸ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UπÃ– „U◊¥ ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, how to discharge our duty as Parliamentarians, ÿ„U „U◊∑§Ù ŒπŸÊ „ÒU– ÿ„U •÷Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ „ÒU •ı⁄U ‚Á◊Áà ◊¥ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ŒÍœ ∑§Ê ŒÍœ •ı⁄U ¬ÊŸË ∑§Ê ¬ÊŸË „UÙ, „U◊ ‹Ùª ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ©U‚ ⁄UÊSÃ ¬⁄U øÁ‹∞– ◊Ò¥ ÿ„UË Á⁄UÄÔflS≈U ∑§M¢§ªÊ– ◊Ò¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà ßÃŸË •‚„UÊÿ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ Á∑§ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ •ı⁄U ∑§Ù≈¸U ∑§Ê ¡Ù ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U „ÒU, ¡Ù «UÊÄÔ≈U⁄U ∑§Ë ≈UË◊ ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄‘UªË, fl„UÊ¢ ¡Ê∑§⁄U „U◊ π«∏UÊ ∑§⁄U Œ¥ª, ÃÙ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ Á‹∞ ∞∑§ ŸÿÊ ¬˝Ë‚Ë«¥U‚ „U٪ʖ „U◊Ê⁄UË ¡Ù ‚Ë◊Êÿ¥ „Ò¥U, ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù „U◊ ¬Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄U∑§ ÿÊ Á¡‚ ÷Ë Ã⁄UË∑§ ‚, ©U‚ „U◊ ∑§⁄‘¥U– ‹Á∑§Ÿ •ª⁄U „U◊ ∑§Ù≈¸U ∑§ ¬˝Ù‚‚ ◊¥ ¡Ê∞¢ª, ©U‚ ∑§ß¸ Áfl∑§Á‚à Œ‡ÊÙ¥ Ÿ ’ÒŸ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ ÁflmÊŸ •ÊŒ◊Ë „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ‹ÊÚ ∑§Ù ÷Ë ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ ŒÁπ∞ ∑§ß¸ Áfl∑§Á‚à Œ‡ÊÙ¥ Ÿ ŸÊ⁄U∑§ÙÁ≈U∑§ ∞ŸÊÁ‹Á‚‚ ∑§Ù ’ÒŸ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– øÍ¢Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ »§ÊߢÁ«¢Uª Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU, ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’Êà •ª⁄U „U◊ ∑§⁄U ÷Ë ŒÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ÄÿÊ fl„U ∑§Ù≈¸U ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∞«UÁ◊Á‚’‹ „UÙªÊ? ÄÿÊ fl„U ‚Êˇÿ ∞«UÁ◊Á‚’‹ „ÒU? ÿ„U ÷Ë ‚¢ÁŒÇœ „ÒU– „U◊ ÿ„U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∞∑§Œ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪ʖ „UÊ¢, fl„ UÁŒ‡ÊÊ ªÊß«U ∑§⁄UÃÊ „ÒU– ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ê ¡Ù ∞¢ª‹ „UÙªÊ, ©U‚ ‹Ë«U ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ªÊß«U ∑§⁄ U‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ∑ȧ¿U ‚◊ÿ ◊¥ ‚ø ÿÁŒ •Ê ¡Ê∞ ÃÙ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¤ÊÍ∆U ÷Ë •Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ß‚◊¥ ÿ„U ÷Ë øÊ¢‚ „ÒU– ‚Ê⁄‘U Ãâÿ ‚ÁøflÊ‹ÿ ∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ ß‚◊¢ ÁŒ∞ „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÿÊ ÃÙ ¬Í⁄UÊ ¡Ù ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U „ÒU, ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, Ã’ ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ÷Ë ’ÿÊŸ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ’«∏U ŸÃÊ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •’ ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ „UÙªÊ, fl ÷Ë ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ◊¥’⁄U „Ò¥U, ¡Ù ’«∏U ŸÃÊ ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU ∑ȧ‹SÃ ∑§ »È§≈U¡ ◊¥, »È§≈U¡ ÃÙ ‚’∑§Ê „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ „ÒU, »È§≈U¡ ∑§Ë ‚Ë«UË „ÒU– ©U‚◊¥ ’«∏U ŸÃÊ ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¬Ò‚Ê •L§áÊ ¡Ë ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, ÿ ’«∏U ŸÃÊ ÷Ë ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ◊¥’⁄U „Ò¥U– ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ∑§Ù „U◊ ∑Ò§‚ ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U ÿÊ ©UŸ‚ ∑Ò§‚ „U◊ ‚Êˇÿ ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? ©UŸ‚ „U◊ ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U „Ò¥U, øÊ„U •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ „Ò¥U, ß‚◊¥ •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ‚ËÄÔfl¥‚ Á◊‹ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U øÊ¡¸ ‹ªÊÿÊ „ÒU, øÊ¡¸ ÃÙ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ¬⁄U ‹ªÊÿÊ „UË „ÒU– øÊ¡¸ ¡Ù ‹ªÊÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ÃÙ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë Ÿ ŒÍ‚⁄UË „UË ÁŒ‡ÊÊ Œ ŒË „ÒU– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ÁfløÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ ∑§ß¸ ∞¢ª‹ „Ò¥U– ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ÷Ë ∞∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ „Ò¥U, ∞∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ¤ÊÍ∆U ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÿÊ ÃËŸÙ¥ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÿÊ øÊ⁄UÙ¥ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ÃËŸÙ¥ ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U, ŒÙ „UË ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∞¬Ëÿ⁄U „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– •‡ÊÙ∑§ •ª¸‹ ¡Ë •ı⁄U ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë •ı⁄U ÃË‚⁄‘U ‚ŒSÿ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄‘UflÃË ⁄U◊Ÿ ¡Ë ∞¬Ëÿ⁄U „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– ߟ ÃËŸÙ¥ ◊¥ ∑§ıŸ ¤ÊÍ∆UÊ „Ò, ¬„U‹ ÿ„U ÷Ë ∞∑§ ߸‡ÔÿÍ ÿÊ øÒåÔ≈U⁄U ’ŸÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞– Á∑§ÃŸÊ ‚ø ∑§ıŸ ’Ù‹Ê, ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ∑§ıŸ Á◊‚‹Ë«U Á∑§ÿÊ, ∑§ıŸ ‚ø ’Ù‹Ê, ß‚◊¥ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÿ ‚’ ∑§ß¸ ¬Ê≈¸U „Ò¥U– „U◊ ‚◊¤ÊÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÿÁŒ „U◊ ÃâÿÙ¥ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¡’ Ã∑§ ¬ÿʸåÔà ‚Êˇÿ Ÿ Á◊‹ ¡Ê∞, •ª⁄U Á»§⁄U ‚ ŒπŸÊ „ÒU flËÁ«UÿÙ ∑§Ù, ÃÙ Á»§⁄U ‚ ŒπÊ ¡Ê∞, Á»§⁄U ‚ ∑ȧ¿U ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§Ë ’Êà •Ê¬Ÿ

283 ∑§„UË– •Ê¬ ’È‹Êß∞, ©U‚ ÃÙ Œ‹ ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ¡Ò‚Ë ’Ê„U⁄U ≈˛UÁŸ¢ª ŒË ¡Ê∞ªË, fl„U flÒ‚Ê ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∑§„UªÊ– fl„U ©U‚Ë ’Êà ∑§Ù ∑§„UÃÊ ⁄U„UÃÊ „ÒU, fl„U •ÙÕ ÷Ë ‹ ‹ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ ¡Ù ÷Ë ∑§„¥Uª, ‚ø ∑§„¥Uª– ÿ„U ÃÙ ¬˝ÒÁÄÔ≈U∑§‹ ’Êà „ÒU, Á¡‚‚ „U◊ ‹Ùª ªÈ¡⁄‘U „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ¡Ù Œπ „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ÿÊ Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ‹Êß∞, fl„ UÄÿÊ ∑§„UªÊ, fl„U ∑Ò§‚ „UÁ⁄U‡Ôøãº˝ „UÙ ¡Ê∞ªÊ? fl„U ÷Ë ÃÙ fl„UË ‹Êߟ ∑§„UªÊ, ¡Ù ©U‚ ’Ê„U⁄U ≈˛UÁŸ¢ª ŒË ªÿË „U٪˖ ¡Ù-¡Ù ≈˛UÁŸ¢ª ŒªÊ, Á¡‚∑§Ê •ÊŒ◊Ë „UÙªÊ, ¡Ò‚ ©U‚∑§Ù ≈˛UÁŸ¢ª ŒªÊ, fl„U flÒ‚ „UË ∑§„UªÊ– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù •Ê¬ ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§ ¬ˇÊ ◊¥ „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ©U‚ ’È‹Êß∞– ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ŒÁπ∞, ¡’ ‚◊ÿ •Ÿ¢Ã∑§Ê‹ „UË ‹ª ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U ∑§Ù ÷Ë ø¥¡ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU, ‚’ ¬˝Á∑˝§ÿÊ ∑§Ë ¡Ê∞– „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ‡ÊÊ≈¸U∑§≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊Ò¥ ‚◊¤ÊÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ’Ê‹ ∑§Ë πÊ‹ πË¢øŸ ‚ ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªÊ, ¡Ù Ãâÿ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ŒÊÿ⁄‘U ◊¥ „ÒU¢, ‚Á◊Áà Á¡ÃŸÊ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU, fl„U ∑§Ê◊ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ¡Ù ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ fl‡Ê ◊¥ •÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •ª⁄U »¢§«UÊ◊¥≈U‹ ø¥¡ ∑§⁄‘¥U, ÃÙ ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ •‹ª ‚ ’Ò∆U∑§ ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ¬„U‹ ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U ∑§Ù „UË ø¥¡ ∑§⁄UÊ Œ¥– ◊⁄UË ÿ„UË ⁄UÊÿ ÕË– ãÿÊÁÿ∑§ ¡Ê¢ø •ı⁄U ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ¬˝Á∑˝§ÿÊ flÊ‹Ë ¡Ê¢ø ¡Ù „U◊ ‡ÊÈM§ ∑§⁄U Œ¥ª, ÃÙ „U◊ ∑¢§¬Ë≈¥U≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U ŸÊ⁄U∑§ÙÁ≈U∑§ ∞ŸÊÁ‹Á‚‚ ∑§ Á‹∞, ÃÙ Á»§⁄U ÿ„U ©U‚∑§Ù ŒŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ ÿ„U ∞∑§ •ë¿UË ¬⁄¢U¬⁄UÊ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªË Á∑§ „U◊∑§Ù ∞∑§ øË¡ ŒË ªÿË „ÒU, Ã’ ÃÙ ÿ„U ‚’ øË¡Ù¥ ∑§Ê ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ „UÙªÊ, ’„ÈUà ‚Ë øË¡¥ ß‚◊¥ •ı⁄U ÁŸ∑§‹¥ªË– „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¡Ù ßãflÁS≈Uª‡ÊŸ ∞¢ª‹ „ÒU, ¬Í¿UÃÊ¿U ∑§⁄UŸÊ, ©UŸ‚ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ‹ŸÊ, „U◊Ê⁄UÊ Ã⁄UË∑§Ê •‹ª „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ê Ã⁄UË∑§Ê •‹ª „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ ß‚ ⁄UÊÿ ∑§Ê „Í¢U Á∑§ ∑¢§¬Ë≈¥U≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU •Ê¬∑§Ë ∑§◊≈UË, Õ˝Í ßãflÁS≈Uª‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞, ¡Ù ◊Ê◊‹ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ≈UÁÄÔŸ∑§‹ ≈US≈U ∑§◊≈UË Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ≈UÁÄÔŸ∑§‹ ≈US≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã, •Ê¬ ŸÊ⁄U∑§Ù ≈US≈U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã–

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÃÙ ¡Ê¢ø ‚Ë’Ë•Ê߸ ‚ ∑§⁄UÊÿ¥– The Committee can always recommend anything. ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈˛UË ∑§◊≈UË Ã„U‹∑§Ê ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥, fl¥∑§≈USflÊ◊Ë ∑§◊≈UË, »§Ù⁄‘¥UÁ‚∑§ ‹Ò’Ù⁄‘U≈˛UË ◊¥ ∑Ò§‚≈U ÷¡Ë ÕË, •ÊÕ¥Á≈UÁ‚≈UË ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥, ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ ≈UÁÄÔŸ∑§‹ ‚¬Ù≈¸U Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ ‚∑§Ã, ÿ„U ∑§„UŸÊ ª‹Ã „U٪ʖ ◊Ò¥ Ãâÿ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ≈UÁÄÔŸ∑§‹ ‚¬Ù≈¸U ‹ËÁ¡∞– ◊Ò¥ ÃÙ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ •Ÿ¢Ã∑§Ê‹ Ã∑§ ß‚ ’…∏UÊß∞, ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U ÷Ë ø¥¡ ∑§ËÁ¡∞, ‚Ê⁄‘U ≈UÁÄÔŸ∑§‹ ‚¬Ù≈¸U ‹ËÁ¡∞– ∞∑§ ≈UË◊ ßãflÁS≈Uª‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •‹ª ‚ ’Ò∆UÊÿË ¡Ê∞– ∑§◊≈UË mÊ⁄UÊ Á⁄U∑§◊¥«U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞, ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù „UË Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U Œ, ß‚◊¥ ‚◊ÿ ‹ªªÊ– ÿ„U ÃË‚⁄‘U „UçÔÃ ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ, ÿ„U ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ „ÒU– Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ •Ê¬ «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§Á„U∞, øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’ ÃÒÿÊ⁄ U∑§⁄‘¥U, ‚Ê⁄‘U Á’¢ŒÈ ¬⁄U ‚ÁøflÊ‹ÿ ß‚ ∑§⁄‘U, Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ •Ê¡ ŒÙ ◊Èg ¬⁄U ÿ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§∞, fl„U ’„ÈUà •ë¿UÊ ÃÒÿÊ⁄U Á∑§∞– ©U‚Ë Ã⁄U„U ‚ ‚Ê⁄‘U Á’¢ŒÈ Á¡ÃŸ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U, fl„U •‹ª-•‹ª øÒåÔ≈U⁄U ∑§⁄U∑§, ÃÒÿÊ⁄U ∑§⁄U∑§ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U •Ê∞, Á»§⁄U „U◊ ‹Ùª ß‚ ¬⁄U •Êª ’…∏¥ª– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∞∑§ •ı⁄U ‚Ë«UË •ÊÿË ÕË, •◊⁄UÁ‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‚, ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê ÿ„UÊ¢ •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ÷Ë ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ •Ê߸’Ë∞Ÿ Ÿ ¡Ù ÁŒπÊÿÊ, ∑Ò§‚≈U •Ê¡ ¡’ ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ◊¥ ◊Ò¥ ©U‚ Œπ øÈ∑§Ê ÕÊ, ©U‚◊¥ ¡Ò‚ •Ê¡ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ÿÊ ∞.’Ë. ’œ¸Ÿ ÿÊ •„U◊Œ ∑§ Á⁄U»§⁄‘¥U‚ •Ê∞¢, ÃÙ ¡Ù Ãâÿ fl ŒŸÊ øÊ„¥U, Œ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– We can not compel them. They are free to give the evidence. •L§áÊ ¡≈U‹Ë ∑§Ê ÷Ë ŸÊ◊ •ÊÿÊ, fl ÷Ë ∞Ä‚¬≈UÔ˜‚¸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’„ÈUà ‚Ë ’Êà ∑§„U „Ò¥U– „U◊ ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, fl ÷Ë ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ◊¥’⁄U „Ò¥U– •ª⁄U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U, •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ •L§áÊ ¡≈U‹Ë ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÷Ë Áø≈UÔ˜∆UË Œ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ÃËŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù Œ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ∑§Ù߸ ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ÃËŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù „U◊ ∑§Ù߸ øÊ¡¸‡ÊË≈U Ÿ„UË¥ Œ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U–

284 SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: Mr. Chairman, I feel we have got almost all the details about the sting operation. If you want to record any other witness based on this CD only, my request to you is that we should have full discussion and then it would be possible for us to conclude. I feel almost all the facts are before you. So, I authorise you to prepare a draft report and then we can discuss these points one-by-one and we can decide. That is my opinion. MR. CHAIRMAN: Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotraji has just given a note which has been circulated to all the Members. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÿ„UÊ¢ ŒÙ-ÃËŸ ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§„UË ªß¸ „Ò¥U– ∞∑§ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ¡’ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ª∞, ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ •ÊŒ◊Ë ÕÊ Á¡‚Ÿ ¬Ò‚Ê ©U∆UÊÿÊ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– fl„U •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§ıŸ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§Ë •Êß«¥UÁ≈U≈UË ¬ÃÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ ’„ÈUà „UË ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ ’Êà „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊ ¬ÃÊ ∑§⁄‘¥U, üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ‚ ¬Í¿¥U, ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿¥U, øÊ„U ©UŸ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬ÃÊ ∑§⁄‘¥U, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ¡Ù ¬Ò‚Ê ‹∑§⁄U ªÿÊ, ¬Ò‚Ê fl„UÊ¢ ⁄Uπ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ë •Êß«Ò¥UÁ≈U≈UË ¬ÃÊ ‹ªŸË øÊÁ„U∞– •ª⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „UÒ ÃÙ „U◊ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‚ ∑§„U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ≈˛U‚ ∑§⁄U∑§ ’ÃÊ∞¢ Á∑§ fl„U ∑§„UÊ¢ „ÒU¢ •ı⁄U ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU– ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ, üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ¡Ù «˛UÊßfl⁄U ªÿÊ, ©U‚∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊŸÊ ÷Ë ’„ÈUà ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU– fl„U „UÊ¢ ∑§⁄‘U, Ÿ ∑§⁄‘U, ©U‚ ∑§Ù߸ ∞Ä‚ÒåÔ≈U ∑§⁄‘U ÿÊ Ÿ ∑§⁄‘U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U fl„UÊ¢ üÊË ‚Ù„U‹ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ªÿÊ •ı⁄U ‚Ë∞Ÿ∞Ÿ-•Ê߸’ËU∞Ÿ ∑§Ë ≈UË◊ Ÿ ©U‚ ¬„U‹ fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ø‹ÊÿÊ, ÿ„U ¬ÃÊ ‹ªŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ÃË‚⁄UÊ, „U◊Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ fl„U ¬Ù‡Ê¸Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ– ‚’Ÿ ∞ª˝Ë Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ fl ◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ª∞ Õ– ¡’ fl ◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ªÿ, ÃÙ ©UŸ‚ üÊË •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹– ÿ„U ’Êà ∑§„UË ªÿË– ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∑Ò§◊⁄‘U ‹ª „ÈU∞ Õ– »È§≈U¡ ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ „UÙªË, ÃÙ ©Uã„¥U »È§≈U¡ ŒŸË øÊÁ„U∞– •ÊÁπ⁄U »È§≈U¡ fl •¬Ÿ ¬Ê‚ ÄÿÙ¥ ⁄Uπ „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U Á∑§ fl„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U fl ªÿ, ∑Ò§‚ ªÿ, Á∑§‚-Á∑§‚ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ªÿ? •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ ≈Uå‚ ∑§Ë »§ÊÚ⁄Ò¥UÁ‚∑§ ‹’Ù⁄‘U≈U⁄UË ‚ ≈ÒUÁS≈¢Uª ÷Ë ∑§⁄UÊŸË øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∑§Ù߸ ¿U«∏U¿UÊ«∏U ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU߸ ÿÊ ©U‚◊¢ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ øË¡ ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹Ë ªß¸– üÊË ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ Ÿ ¡Ù ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„¥U ¡’⁄UŒSÃË fl„UÊ¢ ‹ ªÿ, ©UŸ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÃÙ ‚Ê⁄UË øË¡¥ „Ò¥U, ¡Ù ‚ÈüÊË ©U◊Ê ÷Ê⁄UÃË flÊ‹ ≈U¬ ◊¥ ÷Ë •ÊÿË „Ò¥U, ß‚◊¥ ÷Ë •ÊÿË „Ò¥U– ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– ©UŸ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •ª‹Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ◊¥ •Ê¬ ÁfløÊ⁄ U∑§⁄‘¥U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: First of all, I would like to mention that the DVD of Mr. Kulaste has already been circulated to all the hon. Members and if anybody wants we can always view it again. But it has already been sent to all the Members. I think all the DVDs and the material which we have had with us and which was given to us has already been shared by all the hon. Members of this Committee. As far as the footage of CNN/IBN is concerned, whatever was aired on the 11th at 8.000 p.m. is in the public domain. Whatever is or was there before that is something which was not in the public domain. So, we have no idea about that. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: But it was said here that a team went to the Meridien Hotel. That is not there. MR. CHAIRMAN: I agree with you. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∞∑§ »È§≈U¡ fl„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ∞∑§ »È§≈U¡ fl„U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ¡Ù ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ∞ª˝Ë Á∑§ÿÊ Á∑§ ÃËŸÙ¥ ◊Òê’‚¸ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ©UŸ∑§Ë ∞∑§ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª „ÈU߸– ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§⁄U∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ¬Í⁄UÊ ∑§⁄U Á‹ÿÊ, ÃËŸÙ¥ ◊Òê’‚¸ ∑§Ê „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∞ª˝Ë Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U »È§≈U¡ „ÒU– •ª⁄U fl„U „ÒU ÃÙ ©Uã„¥U ŒŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– •ª⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ÃÙ fl ∑§„U Œ¥ Á∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

285 MR. CHAIRMAN: I think we have already requested them. The over-ground recording was given later on. That has already been circulated. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚◊¥ fl„U ¬Ù‡Ê¸Ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, Á¡‚◊¥ ÃËŸÙ¥ ◊Òê’‚¸ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U, ŸÙ≈U ÁªŸÃ „ÈU∞ ÃÙ „ÒU–

PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: That is part of the sting operation but they have given that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: They have given that. ‚é‚ËÄÔfl¥≈U ≈U¬ ◊¥ ¡Ù •ÊÿÊ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚é‚ËÄÔfl¥≈U ŸÙ≈U ∑§ Ÿê’⁄U ‚Ò∑˝§≈UÁ⁄Uÿ≈U ‚ Á◊‹– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— fl„U „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ ©UŸ ÃËŸÙ¥ ‚ ’ÊÃøËà „ÈU߸ Á∑§ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ¬Í⁄UÊ „UÙ ªÿÊ– ©UŸ‚ ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ¬Í¿U Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê∞ Á∑§ •ª⁄U ∑§Ù߸ •ı⁄U „ÒU ÃÙ fl Œ Œ¥– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ¡M§⁄U ¬Í¿U ‹¥ª– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á¡‚ ÁŒŸ fl ‹Ùª •Ê∞ Õ, üÊË ‚⁄UŒ‚Ê߸ ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ √ÿÁÄÔà •ı⁄U ÕÊ, ◊Ò¥ üÊË ªıÃ◊ ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ, ©UŸ∑§ ‚Ò∑˝§≈˛UË ¡Ù Õ, ¡’ ‚ÈŸ ⁄U„U Õ ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’Ù‹Ê Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ÃÙ •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ ÕÊ– ß‚ ‚◊ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ÃÙ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡’ ∑§ãfl≈¸U Á∑§ÿÊ ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê „U٪ʖ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù fl„U ÷¡ Œ¥ª– ÄÿÊ ’ÊŒ ◊¥ fl„U ÷¡ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ÷¡Ê– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬˝ÊÚÁ◊‚ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ◊¡¸ ∑§⁄U∑§ Œ Œ¥ª–

MR. CHAIRMAN: They said that they have got it with them. They gave it and we made copies of that. ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚ ÁŒŸ fl„U ’Ù‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ fl„U •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ/flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¡¸ ∑§⁄U∑§ Œ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– Á⁄U∑§Ê«¸U ÄÔflÊÁ‹≈UË π⁄UÊ’ „UÙ ªÿË „U٪˖

MR. CHAIRMAN: Audio-video match is what we have circulated today. This is what they broadcast. As regards footage that they have, if they say no, then we cannot force them because it has not been produced by those accomplices. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ◊⁄UËÁ«UÿŸ „UÙ≈U‹ ◊¥ ¡Ù ªÿ Õ, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∞ª˝Ë Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ „U◊ ªÿ Õ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©U‚∑§Ë »È§≈U¡ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will definitely ask but the fact is that during the evidence, all of them agreed that nothing important happened in the Meridien Hotel. But with due respect to your suggestion, we will ask them.

Secondly, about the identity of the person who carried the money, I agree with you that it is a very vital information and the fact which is needed. Salim Saheb wanted to go on record about the technical support, I agree with you that per se in general you cannot say that a Committee cannot ask for technical support. But then different kinds of technicalities will come to that. But certainly a Parliamentary Committee can elicit technical support if it feels it necessary.

286 Basically, I would like to deal with these first two aspects. As you have rightly put it in the House of Commons itself they have changed the rule as far as Members from the other House are concerned. It may be desirable for us to do that also but the fact is till today we have not adopted that procedure and we are still going by the report that was given by the Privileges Committee in the year 1958. Therefore, this is an aspect which can be taken up with the hon. Speaker. Ultimately, it may be the House which will finally decide. I am not in disagreement with your proposal or what you are saying. Since we have come to this problem in this Committee, probably it is a matter which is worth considering so that at least in future these kinds of obstacles may not come in the way of any Committee that may like to call and discuss with Members. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ù ⁄ÒU»§⁄U ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã „ÒU?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me come to that aspect. I am just trying to clarify what everybody has said.

Second thing is about Narco-analysis test. You said that ours is not a court. Certainly ours is not a court. But you see I would like to very humbly submit that we are not also an investigating agency of that nature. But the wisdom of setting this new precedent of Narco-analysis test by a Parliamentary Committee should also be viewed in all seriousness because over petty matter tomorrow if we start asking for this kind of invasive and intrusive test which involves administration of chemicals and all that, it may have other repercussions and things. But anyway that is also something which I think the Committee cannot decide on its own. This will have to be referred to the Speaker or to the House but anyway certainly this aspect has been taken note of. That is why, I had asked them to get some reference and circulate to hon. Members. This is as far as these things are concerned.

Prof. Malhotraji has asked as to what is the difficulty in referring to the other House. Now I am not going to comment on what the witness said and what the witnesses have not said. Shri Rajesh Vermaji has expressed certain views. Shri Salim has expressed certain views. I am not here to own or disown or to reject or totally accept what a witness has said. In no way would I like to preach a situation or to pass any kind of comment or judgement either directly or indirectly.

Well, the apprehensions of all the Members which have been expressed before this Committee, we honour all the observations. We respect the views that have been expressed by each Member. But the fact is so far we have not been able to connect to the Member of the Upper House to this particular operation. It has been established that Sanjeev Saxena knew Mr. Amar Singh and Mr. Amar Singh knew him. Both of them have also accepted it. Mr. Amar Singh may have done this in some interviews. So, there is no denying the fact that he was not a stranger or an outsider. They knew each other and I think that has very well been established. Those letters have been given showing care off addresses. I do not think we need to go into that at all because nobody is today questioning the fact whether they know each other or not. The question is whether in this particular issue Sanjeev Saxena was acting as a messenger or a carrier for Mr. Amar Singh. That is the question which is there before us. For whatever reason, it may be whether it was the truth that he spoke or whether it was something false that he said is not a matter that I am going to judge or decide because I do not think any of us in a position to do so.

287 I do not think any of us are in a position to do so because we are entitled to have our views and assessment on that particular matter. This has to be respected by all. If something had been connected, then we would have every reason to summon the MPs from the other House or refer it to the Rajya Sabha. I do not know, with due respect to the Members of the other House, they are elders to us supposed to be in age or otherwise, they would also be summoning the same witnesses. They will have to connect the Member of the Upper House if or not they are connected with this, whoever it may be, Shri Ahmed Patel, or Shri Arun Jaitley or Shri Amar Singh or whatever may be the case. So, actually they are in a very sticky kind of a position. In fact I also strongly feel that some further investigation is necessary to get at the truth because there are certain loose ends which need to be connected. Therefore, it is my personal suggestion, you may agree or you may reject it, based on all the facts that we have before us, just recording the bare facts and summerising them and it may be appropriate for us to recommend to the House that this is a fit case that should actually be referred to a proper investigating agency who have the proper wherewithal and the men and the material to investigate into this because we are not policemen and we are not an investigating agency. This is my view and I would like to have the views of the hon. Members on this. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We would like a bit of time to give our views on this. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •ª‹Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª •’ ∑§’ „UÙªË? ß‚ ’Ëø ’Ò¥∑§ flÊ‹Ù¥ ∑§Ù ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ Á‹π ŒËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ ŸÙ≈U Á∑§‚Ÿ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹–

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will write to the Ministry of Finance and give them these details and ask them if they can get any further details on this. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÷Ë ‚Ùø ‹ËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U Á¡‚Ÿ ŸÙ≈U ©U∆UÊÿ Õ, ©U‚ ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ∑§Ê⁄U ∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ê ⁄UÁ¡S≈˛U‡ÊŸ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ê ◊ÊÁ‹∑§ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •ª‹Ë ◊Ë≈¢Uª ∑§Ê •Ê¬ ≈UÊß◊ ’ÃÊ ŒËÁ¡∞– •Ê¬ •Ê∆ UÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄UÁπ∞– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ Œ‚ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ⁄UÊ◊ªÙ¬Ê‹ ¡Ë, „U◊ Œ‚ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‹Ã „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, Ã’ Ã∑§ „U◊ •¬ŸË S≈Ò¥UÁ«¢Uª ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª πàÔ◊ ∑§⁄U ‹¥ª– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ©U‚ ‚◊ÿ ‹ÊÚ ∞¢«U ¡ÁS≈U‚ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ê ≈ÍU⁄U ¬˝Ùª˝Ê◊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ‹ÊÚ ∞¢«U ¡ÁS≈U‚ ∑§◊≈UË Á∑§ÃŸ ≈ÍU⁄U ∑§⁄UÃË „ÒU? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ— ‹ÊÚ ∞¢«U ¡ÁS≈U‚ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ê ≈ÍU⁄U | Á‚Ãê’⁄U ‚ vw Á‚Ãê’⁄U Ã∑§ „ÒU– ©U‚◊¥ „U◊ ÷Ë ◊Òê’⁄U „Ò¥U– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ „U◊ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ß‚ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§Ù ⁄Uπ ‹¥? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ vx ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– •Ê¬ ¡Ù ÷Ë ÃÊ⁄UËπ Ãÿ ∑§⁄‘¥U, fl„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— vx ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∆UË∑§ ⁄U„UªË– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÄÿÊ ©U‚ ÁŒŸ ¿ÈU≈˜UÔ≈UË ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ©U‚ ÁŒŸ ‡ÊÁŸflÊ⁄U „ÒU–

288 ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ vw ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ÄÿÊ vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– •Ê¬ ÷Ë Ã’ Ã∑§ ÃËŸ-øÊ⁄U ÁŒŸ ŒÍ⁄U „UÙ •Êß∞– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ vw ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ’‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „U◊ ¡Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ¬Êÿ¥ª– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— vw ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •ÙáÊ◊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊Ë≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚Ê…∏U ÇÿÊ⁄U„U ’¡ „U◊ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‹Ã „Ò¥U– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊ ÿ„UÊ¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄„¥Uª– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ vÆ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ⁄Uπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– •ª⁄U •Ê¬ vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ⁄Uπ¥ª, ÃÙ „U◊¥ ß‚◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ∞Ã⁄UÊ¡ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ •Ê∆U ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „UË ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ Ÿı ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∑ȧåԬ͂Ê◊Ë ¡Ë, ÄÿÊ „U◊ Ÿı ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§⁄U ‹¥? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄UπÃ? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚‚ ¬„U‹ •Ê¬ ◊à ∑§ËÁ¡∞ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊Ÿ ¬Ë∞‚Ë ∑§Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄UπË „ÈU߸ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ | ‚ vw ÃÊ⁄UËπ Ã∑§ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ◊à ⁄UÁπ∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ vv ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‹ËÁ¡∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: The next meeting is on 11th of September, 2008 at 11.30 a.m. (The meeting then adjourned)

289 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 11 September, 2008. MR. CHAIRMAN: Namashkar and welcome all of you to this meeting of the committee. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ◊Ò¥Ÿ Á¬¿U‹Ë ’Ê⁄U åÔflÊߢ≈UÔ˜‚ •ÊÚ»§ ÄÔflÒ⁄UË¡ ŒË ÕË–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Additional points have been given by Prof. Malhotra. Copies have been made and they are being circulated to all Members. Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav wanted to view a particular clipping of Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste. I thought we will view that today and apart from that, I have to inform the Committee that we have received replies from the Ministry of Communications, Ministry of Home Affairs and two other departments from whom we had asked for certain clarifications on certain information that the hon. Members wanted. Those have already been circulated to all Members. Several queries have been made by Prof. Malhotra. They should be made part of the proceedings. Not only that, all queries given by all Members should be made part of the proceedings. Then, we have circulated the proceedings of the last meeting of the Committee. The only Ministry which has not sent reply to us is the Ministry of Finance regarding those currency notes. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ¡Ù Á‹π∑§⁄U •ÊÿÊ „ÒU, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Á‚ê¬‹Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ≈U¬ ¬˝ÙflÊß«U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– We never asked for tapes. We only simply asked ©U‚ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ Á∑§‚-Á∑§‚ ∑§Ù ∑§ÊÚ‹ „ÈU߸? That is not secret. ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ Á∑§‚ ∑§Ù ∑§ÊÚ‹ „ÈU߸, ÄÿÊ ∑§ÊÚ‹ „ÈU߸? ß‚ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ ⁄UÙ¡ „U◊¥ ∑§ÊÚ‹ •ÊÃË „Ò¥U– ◊⁄‘U ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ Á∑§ÃŸË ∑§ÊÚÀ‚ Á∑§‚-Á∑§‚ ∑§Ù „ÈU߸, fl Á«U≈UÀ‚ ⁄UÙ¡ •ÊÃË „Ò¥U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: You may be aware of the fact that Mr. Salim raised a question as to whether there is any recording and if there is a recording we should ask for it. Based on that, we had asked for recording of tapes if there were any. MD. SALIM: Call records. MR. CHAIRMAN: We will ask for the record of the calls also. There is no problem about that. But I understood, may be misunderstood the fact that you had asked whether there is a record. MD. SALIM: Unless it is tapped, you cannot have a record. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, anyway, we had asked for both. MD. SALIM: Unless the Government instructs that a telephone should be tapped, there will not be any record. MR. CHAIRMAN: That is right, but I did not want any information to be withheld or not be available to this Committee by an act of default. Therefore, we did write to them and we got back a reply from them. Now, as far as record of calls is concerned, we can write to them again and ask for it. These additional points which have been given by Prof. Malhotra and other hon. Members will form part of the record. We have also written to the Ministry of Finance regarding the withdrawal of money as desired by you. I think we should send a reminder to the Ministry of Finance and ask them to let us know as tow hat is the position as far as that is concerned. I think, before we proceed further, as desired by our hon. colleague Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav, we can view that clipping.

293 MD. SALIM: Which video is it? ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë Ÿ ¡Ù ≈U¬ ÷¡Ê „ÒU, fl„U „ÒU– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: All tapes have been circulated. We have also circulated the transcripts of all the CDs. There are 6 CDs. Would you like to see all of them? Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav wanted to see the CD in which Mr. Faggan Singh Kulaste is speaking. That is there only in the first CD. MD. SALIM: I want to know whether different CDs were sent by different people or they sent them collectively. MR. CHAIRMAN: All the CDs were sent collectively and the people who sent them are Shri Lalu Prasad, Shri Ram Vilas Paswan, Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav, Kumari Uma Bharati and Shri Tarun Goel. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— S¬Ë∑§⁄U Ÿ „U◊¥ ÷¡Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊Òê’‚¸ Á¡‚ ŒπŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ πÊ‚ Ãı⁄U ¬⁄U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§Ê ∑§Á⁄U∞– Á¡‚ ∑§Ê ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ „UÙªÊ ÿÊ Á¡‚ Ÿ ÷¡Ê „U٪ʗwe have to summon them also. ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ, ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ, Á¡‚ Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ „UÙªÊ, ©U‚ ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ŸøÈ⁄U‹ ¡ÁS≈U‚ ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ Á¡‚ ∑§Ë ‚Ë«UË Œπ¥ª, ©UŸ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ¬„U‹ ©U‚ Œπ ‹¥– ¬˝Ù. ÿÊŒfl Á¡‚∑§Ù ŒπŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ¬„U‹ „U◊ ©U‚ Œπ¥ª– fl„U ¬„U‹ ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ– ©U‚ ÿ„UÊ¢ ÷Ë Œπ Á‹ÿÊ ÕÊ– ©U‚∑§ ™§¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ‚flÊ‹ ©U∆U ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let us view it first and then if we feel that they should be called, we will decide accordingly.

◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¡Ù «˛UÊßfl⁄U „Ò, ©U‚ ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ—¡Ù ªÊ«∏UË ø‹Ê ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚ ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: You had demanded that, Mr. Malhotra had also said so and Shri Rajesh Verma also made a remark. MD. SALIM: We should find out the truth. MR. CHAIRMAN: First we have to identify who the driver is. (DVD was played) ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ß‚ «UËflË«UË ∑§Ù •’ ’㌠∑§⁄U ŒËÁ¡∞– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— üÊË ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ù „UË ‚ÈŸŸÊ ÕÊ– fl ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •L§áÊ ¡Ë ¡ÊŸ¥ Á∑§ ¬Ò‚Ê ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÿÊ? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ÊÚÁ«UÿÙ Á⁄U∑§ÊÚÁ«¢Uª ◊¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ™§¬⁄U-ŸËø ¡Ù«∏U ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ë, ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë •ı⁄U Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©UŸ ÃËŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÿ„UÊ¢ ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– Á∑§‚Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ≈U¬ ŒË, •ÊÁπ⁄U Á∑§‚Ë Ÿ ÃÙ ŒË „U٪˖ Á¡Ÿ∑§Ù ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ, „U⁄‘U∑§ ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– ÿ„U ∑Ò§‚ „UÙ‚ ∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©Uã„¥U Ÿ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞, Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚Ë«UË...– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— Á»§⁄U ÃÙ ‚’ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ‚’∑§Ù ÃÙ ’È‹ÊŸÊ „UË ¬«∏UªÊ–

294 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ ’È‹Êß∞ ÃÙ •Ê«UflÊáÊË ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ •ı⁄U ⁄UÊ¡ŸÊÕ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– Á¡Ÿ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë Ÿ Á‹∞ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ ‚’∑§Ù ’È‹Êß∞– ¡Ù å‹ÊŸ ÕÊ, ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ∑§ mÊ⁄UÊ ¡Ù øøʸ „ÈU߸ „ÒU, ¡Ò‚Ê ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ •Ê«UflÊáÊË ¡Ë, ⁄UÊ¡ŸÊÕ ¡Ë •ı⁄U •L§áÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU-¡Ù å‹ÊŸ ÕÊ-ÿ å‹ÊŸ ∑§ Áfl·ÿ ◊¥ ’ÃÊ∞¢ª •ı⁄U ¬Ò‚ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ •L§áÊ ¡Ë ’ÃÊ∞¢ª Á∑§ ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ŸÙ≈U •Ê∞, Á∑§‚Ÿ ÁŒ∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ¬„U‹ „UË ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§„U øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– ¡Ù ‚Ë«UË •Ê¬ ÁŒπÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, Á¡‚ ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ߟ∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ „ÒU, ©Uã„¥U ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚÷Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– Á«ÁS∑˝§Á◊Ÿ‡ÊŸ ÄÿÙ¥ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U– ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ‚’ ∑§Ù ’È‹Êß∞, Á¡‚‚ ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà ¬ÃÊ ‹ª ‚∑§ •ı⁄U Ãâÿ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê∞¢– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©UŸ∑§Ê ß‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÄÿÊ ÃÊÀÔ‹È∑§ „ÒU? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÃÊÀÔ‹È∑§ ÃÙ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ©UŸ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑§◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— fl ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¢Ÿ ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ’ŸÊ߸ ÕË– ß‚ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ÃÙ ∑ȧ‹SÃ ‚Ê„U’ ¬„U‹ ÁŒŸ „UË ∑§„U ª∞ Á∑§ ’Ë.¡.¬Ë. ¬Ê≈U˸ Ÿ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U ÿÙ¡ŸÊ ’ŸÊ߸ •ı⁄U ß‚∑§Ù ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ◊¥... ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ß‚◊¥ ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ „ÒU– ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ‚Ê»§ ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ¬Ò‚Ê ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÿÊ, ÿ„U •L§áÊ ¡Ë ’ÃÊ∞¢ª– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∞‚Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ß‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ߢ∑§Ê⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ÿ„U ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥– ©U‚ ™§¬⁄U-ŸËø ‚ Á◊‹Ê ÁŒÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ©Uã„¥U ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞ •ı⁄U ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ •Ê¬Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ, ÃÙ ©U‚∑§Ë ÄÿÊ ¬Ù¡Ë‡ÊŸ „ÒU? •Ê¬∑§Ù ÁS≈¢Uª •Ê¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄U∑§ Á∑§‚Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ∑§ıŸ „ÒU, ÄÿÊ ’Êà „ÈU߸, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ™§¬⁄U- ŸËø ÄÿÊ ¡Ù«∏UÊ?

MD. SALIM: It seems from the DVD that Zee News had concluded this. My query is whether it was telecast by Zee News? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MD. SALIM: It is a sting operation conducted by Zee News on behalf of someone. Normally, what this Committee has done in this case and in previous cases also is, whichever CD containing this information, that we have tried to ascertain certain facts from those who have made it and those who figure directly or indirectly we try to take evidence from them. If we take this CD seriously, as Member has demanded, I think, it would be in the fitness of things that we invite the persons who conducted this, those who had appeared in this and those who have taken pains to submit this CD. When suo-motu they have taken so much of pain by manufacturing or procuring such fats and sending it to us, by holding Press Conference so that the nation also knows, if the Committee does not ask them to help, I think, it will be an injustice to them. They have submitted six CDs and if we do not take it seriously, it will be an injustice to them. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have only one thing to say. All these tapes are post-dated vis-a-vis the date of voting. These are tapes which have come to us after 22nd of July, 2007. That is one aspect. The second thing is that along with these tapes, there is also Uma Bharti’s tape. She had also given a tape which is a part of this. I would like you to give your opinion on the relevance of

295 these tapes because it is Uma Bharti’s tape plus these tapes which are post-dated vis-a-vis the voting in the House. Also, there is another tape which came from Tarun Goyal, an Advocate, So, these are the things which are there before us. ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ◊„UÙŒÿ, ߟ ≈Uå‚ ∑§Ù ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡Ê Ÿ ŒπÊ „ÒU– ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§ê¬‹Ÿã≈U „UË ‚Ù‚¸ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– fl„U ∑§Ù⁄‘U’Ù⁄‘U≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ¡Ù Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ fl„UÊ¢ ªÿÊ •ı⁄U fl„UÊ¢ ‚ ‹Ùª ¬Ò‚Ê ‹∑§⁄U ∑§ ’Ò∆U– fl„U ∑§Ù⁄U’Ù⁄‘U‡ÊŸ „ÒU ¡Ù Á∑§ ∑ȧ‹SÃ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¬Ò‚Ê ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÿÊ •ı⁄U ¡Ù ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ¬Ò‚Ê ‹∑§⁄U •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ’Ò∆UÊ ©UŸ∑§Ë ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥– ÿ„U ∑§Ù⁄U’Ù⁄‘UÁ≈Ufl øË¡ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U-∑§≈U „ÒU •ı⁄U ß‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢Œ„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ù •ÊflÊ¡ „ÒU, fl„U ∑ȧ‹SÃ ∑§Ë „UË „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ÃÙ ¬Í¿UŸÊ „UË „UÙªÊ Á∑§ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§ıŸ-‚Ë ’Êà ∑§„UË, Á∑§‚ ‚¢Œ÷¸ ◊¥ ∑§„UË? ÿÁŒ •Ê¬¬˝Ù‚ËÁ«¢Uª ∑§Ù ¬…∏¥U ÃÙ ©U‚◊¥ ∞‚Ê ∑ȧ¿U ‹ªÃÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¬Í¿UÊ Á∑§ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‹Ë«U⁄U ∑§⁄U ⁄„U Õ, ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞ ∞‚ ‚flÊ‹– ¡’ fl ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U ◊¥ •Ê∞, ©UŸ∑§ „UÊÕ ◊¥ ŸÙ≈U Õ •ı⁄U ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ŸÙ≈U fl„UÊ¢ ⁄Uπ– ©UŸ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U L§¬ÿÊ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ¢ ⁄UπÊ •ı⁄U Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ⁄UπÊ? ©Uã„UÙ¢Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¬ •L§áÊ ¡Ë ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞ Á∑§ ÿ„U Á∑§‚ Ã⁄UË∑§ ‚ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU? •L§áÊ ¡Ë Ÿ L§¬ÿÊ ÁŒÿÊ ÕÊ, ∞‚Ë ’Êà ÃÙ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∑§„UË „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ©UŸ∑§Ù ¡M§⁄U ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ©UŸ‚ ÿ„U ¬Í¿¥Uª Á∑§ ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ¡Ù ’Êà ∑§„UË ªß¸ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ë ÄÿÊ ¬Ù¡Ë‡ÊŸ „ÒU? ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë, Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ÷¡Ë „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥ ’È‹Ê∞¢ª ÃÙ ÿ„U ¡Ê∞ªÊ Á∑§ ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë •ÊŸ ∑§Ù ÃÒÿÊ⁄U „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU∞ •ı⁄U ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, fl„U ‚„UË „ÒU– ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë ∑§Ë ’Êà Á’À∑ȧ‹ ª‹Ã „ÒU That will be the inference if he does not come. ©UŸ∑§Ù •Ê¬∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‚Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Êß∞– Á¡ã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ’È‹Ê∞¢ª ÃÙ Á»§⁄U Á∑§‚ ’È‹Ê∞¢ª? üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚‹Ë◊ ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚Ê⁄‘U Ãâÿ •ÊŸ øÊÁ„U∞– ◊Ò¥ ÷Ë ‡ÊÈM§ ‚ ß‚ ’Êà ∑§Ù ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ‚Ë«UË ¡„UÊ¢-¡„UÊ¢ ‚ •ÊÚª¸ŸÊß¡ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, ß‚◊¥ ∑§fl‹ ‹Ê‹Í ¬˝‚ÊŒ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ‚flÊ‹ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ¡Ù ÷Ë ß‚‚ ∑§ã‚«U¸ „Ò¥U, øÊ„U ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ù •Êª¸ŸÊß¡ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „UÙ, øÊ„U ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „UÙ ÿÊ Á¡Ÿ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ∑§Ê S¬cÔ≈U ©UÀÔ‹π „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ë •ÊflÊ¡ ∑§Ù ‚àÿÊÁ¬Ã ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§Ù߸ Ã∑§ŸË∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, ÃÙ ∑§Ë ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃË „ÒU– ÿÁŒ •ÊflÊ¡ „ÒU ÃÙ ‚Êˇÿ Ä‹Ëÿ⁄U •Ê ªÿÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ß‚ ’Êà ‚ ‚„U◊à Ÿ„UË¥ „Í¢U ¡Ù ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë ∑§„U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ •L§áÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ∑§Ù߸ ‚¢Œ÷¸ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU– •L§áÊ ¡≈U‹Ë ¡Ë ∑§Ê S¬cÔ≈U ‚¢Œ÷¸ „ÒU– ¬„U‹ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •Ê«UflÊáÊË ¡Ë, ⁄UÊ¡ŸÊÕ ¡Ë, •L§áÊ ¡Ë •ı⁄U ∞∑§ √ÿÁÄÔà •ı⁄U „ÒU, •L§áÊ ¡Ë ’ÃÊ∞¢ª Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ ‚ ŸÙ≈U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹∑§⁄U ‹Ê∞ ª∞ „Ò¥U? ÿ„U ‚¢ÿÙª ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU– ÿ„U ‚’ ’ÊÃ¥ ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡ÙªË ∑§ ◊È¢„U ‚ •Ê ⁄U„UË „Ò¥U– ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù ‚Êˇÿ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ÿ„U ‚Ë«UË •Ê߸ „ÒU– •ı⁄U ⁄U„USÿ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ߟ ÃâÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU ¡„UÊ¢-¡„UÊ¢ ∑§ã‚Ÿ¸ „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ– ÿÁŒ ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ∑§fl‹ ∞∑§ ∑§Ù Ÿ„UË¥– ÿÁŒ ’È‹ÊŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ Á¡ÃŸ ‚Ë«UË ‚ ∑§ã‚Ÿ¸ „Ò¥U •ÕflÊ Á¡Ÿ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, •Ê«flÊáÊË ¡Ë, ⁄UÊ¡ŸÊÕ ¡Ë, •L§áÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ‚÷Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ߟ ‚÷Ë ‚ ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ¡Ò‚ Á∑§ ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë ‚ ¬Í¿¥Uª Á∑§ ‚Ë«UË •Ê¬Ÿ •Êª¸ŸÊß¡ ∑§Ë ÿÊ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ÁS≈¢Uª •ÊÚ¬⁄‘U‡ÊŸ ∑§⁄UflÊÿÊ– ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ„U ‚Ë«UË ≈U‹ËÁfl¡Ÿ ¬⁄U ÷Ë ÁŒπÊ߸ ªß¸ „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ ¡Ù ∑§ã‚Ÿ¸ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§ ‚ÊÕ Á«U‚Á∑˝§Á◊Ÿ‡ÊŸ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, ‚÷Ë ∑§ ‚ÊÕ ∞∑§ ‚Ê √ÿfl„UÊ⁄U „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– „U◊¥ ÃâÿÙ¥ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§ã‚«U¸ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— Œflãº˝ ¡Ë Ÿ ¡Ù ’Êà ∑§„UË „ÒU, fl„U ßÃŸË ’Êà ∑§„UË „ÒU, ¡Ù Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ‚ „ÒU– Á¡‚◊¥ ÿ„U ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •ª⁄U »§ÇÔªŸ Á‚¢„U ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ∑§Ë ’Êà Á’‹∑ȧ‹ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, •Ê¬ L§¬ÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ¬„UøÊŸ ⁄U„U „UÙ¥ª– •’ ÿ„U ÃÙ •L§áÊ ¡Ë ’ÃÊ∞¢ª Á∑§ fl ŸÙ≈U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹∑§⁄U ‹Ê∞? ÿ„U ÃÙ „U◊Ÿ ÷Ë •Ê¬‚ ¬Í¿UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ ‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹∑§⁄U ‹Ê∞? Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ •Ê∞? That is what be is refering to. ÿ„U ÃÙ •L§áÊ ¡Ë ’ÃÊ ¬Ê∞¢ª Á∑§ Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ •ı⁄U fl„U ©U‚∑§Ë ßãÄÔflÊÿ⁄UË ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U–

296 MR. CHAIRMAN: That is all right. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ’Á‚∑§ ÄÔflÒ‡ÔøŸ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ù ‚Ë«UË ’ÊŒ ◊¥ •Ê߸ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU? •Ê¬ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊ„¥U ÃÙ ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞ •ÕflÊ ÿ„UÊ¢ Ãÿ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„¥U •ı⁄U ©Uã„¥U ÿ„UÊ¢ ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊ„¥U ÃÙ „U◊¢ ∑§Ù߸ ∞Ã⁄UÊ¡ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë, •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë, •Ê«UflÊáÊË ¡Ë •ı⁄U ⁄UÊ¡ŸÊÕ ¡Ë ∑§Ù, ‚’∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞– I do not mind if you call anybody. MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, basically, I would again like to remind the Committee. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊⁄UÊ ∑§„UŸÊ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ Á¬∑§ ∞á«U øÍ¡ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– •Ê¬ ‚’∑§Ù ’È‹Êß∞– MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me first remind the hon. Members of the Committee that—again we have discussed this question earlier—Arun Jaitley is a Member of the other House. You know the procedure as far as calling Arun Jaitley is concerned. It is a cumbersome procedure, and we have already discussed it. I do not want to repeat it. That may not be practicably feasible as far as the presence of Arun Jaitley is concerned due to Rules and Procedures which we cannot change at this juncture. As far as other thing is concerned, as Malhotra ji says, it is a decision that we have to collectively take. I can also refer the matter to the hon. Speaker, if you so desire. Another alternative is that we can call Shri Kulaste once more first because he is one of the petitioners.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We can call the sting operator also. Á¡‚Ÿ Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Êß∞– ‹Ê‹Í ¡Ë Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù ÷¡Ë „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§Ù ÃÙ ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ „UË– ©UŸ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ‚Ë«UË ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ •Ê߸, Á∑§‚Ÿ ŒË •ÕflÊ Á∑§‚Ÿ ÷¡Ë? ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÁŒπÊ߸ „ÒU, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ÷¡Ë „ÒU? ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ÃÙ ¬Í¿UÊ ÷Ë ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ¡Ò‚ ’h¸Ÿ ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬Í¿UÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— „UÊ¢ ¬Í¿UÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU–

MD. SALIM: Once the Committee has taken cognizance to this video—all these days you are not taking it seriously—once it is taken up and shown in the video, now you should follow the same procedures as we did in the earlier cases. MR. CHAIRMAN: It is not a question of not taking it seriously. If they were not taken seriously, I would not have made copies and circulated to the Members. The only thing is that I thought it will be necessary to view it only if a Member desired it. So, if one hon. Member wanted to view it, I said, let it be shown immediately. But, nothing has been pushed beneath the carpet. It is not as if it has not been taken seriously at all. It has been taken seriously. Therefore, copies have been made and circulated. MD. SALIM: Follow the same procedure. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ¬„U‹ flÊ‹ ◊¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚Ë ◊¥ ∑§ËÁ¡∞– ß‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ ¬ÙS≈U «UÁ≈U«U ‚Ë«UË ∑§Ù ‹ŸÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ŸÊ „ÒU, ÿ„U S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ Ÿ •¬ŸË ªflÊ„UË ◊¥ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚ø Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹Ê ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚ø ÁŸ∑§‹flÊŸ ∑§Ë „U◊Ÿ ◊Ê¢ª ∑§Ë ÕË– ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ª‹Ã ’ÿÊŸ Œ∑§⁄U ø‹Ê ¡Ê∞ •ı⁄U „U◊ ©U‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ »Ò§‚‹Ê ∑§⁄‘¥U ÃÙ fl„U ª‹Ã „U٪ʖ ß‚Á‹∞ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ∑§Ë „U∑§Ë∑§Ã ∑§Ù ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‹ÊŸÊ „U٪ʖ

297 MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, you have requested me to ask the Speaker about this but actually •Ê¬ ÃÙ ¡ÊŸÃ „UË „Ò¥U, you are also Chairman of a Committee; the Committee can decide what to do in this matter. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∑§fl‹ ¬ÙS≈U-«UÁ≈U«U ‚Ë«UË ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬Í¿U ‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: First of all, is there any relevance in these post-dated tapes? I would like to know whether it is going to help us to arrive at any conclusion. ◊Ò¥ ßÃŸÊ „UË ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U– Otherwise, unnecessarily I do not want to… ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ ߟ ‚Ë«UË¡ ∑§Ê ⁄‘U‹flã‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ‚„UË „ÒU– ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ ‹ŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U ÃÙ ©Uã„¥U ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞ •ı⁄U ‚’∑§Ù ’È‹Êß∞ •ı⁄U ¬„U‹ ¡Ù ¬˝Ù‚Ë¡⁄U ∞«UÊÚåÔ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ, fl„UË ∑§ËÁ¡∞–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ≈Uå‚ ∑§Ë ∑§ÊÚ¬Ë ÷¡Ë ªß¸ „ÒU, Do you think that this is going to help us to arrive at any conclusion? üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— „U◊Ê⁄UË ÷Ë ‚êÔ◊Áà ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ù ‹Ùª ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ¬˝SÃÈà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©UŸ √ÿÁÄÔÃÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ‚Ê◊Ÿ •ÊŸÊ „UË øÊÁ„U∞– •ÊÁπ⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ê ‚Ë«UË ‚’Á◊≈U ∑§⁄UŸ ◊¥ ÄÿÊ ßã≈U⁄‘US≈U „ÒU? ‚Ë«UË ŒŸ ∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ∑§◊≈UË •¬ŸË ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UË „ÒU •ı⁄U ¬ÙS≈U-«UÁ≈U«U ‚Ë«UË¡ •Ê ⁄U„UË „Ò¥U– ß‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U √ÿÁÄÔà ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „ÒU, ∑ȧ¿U ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË ŒŸ ◊¥ ߢ≈U⁄‘UÁS≈U«U „ÒU– ¡Ù ‹Ùª ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚Ë«UË ‚’Á◊≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§Ù ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •fl‡Ôÿ ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Rajeshji, I have no problem. ß‚◊¥ ∞∑§ ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã „ÒU– Tomorrow, if you are flooded with DVDs and if we have to call everybody, ß‚◊¥ ÃËŸ ‚Ê‹ ’Ëà ¡Ê∞ªÊ and we will continue with it. MD. SALIM: Already we have enough of them. MR. CHAIRMAN: You see, post-dated means you can get it tomorrow or day after also between now and the next meeting. MD. SALIM: If it is open-ended, it will be just like that. üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ (‚ËÃʬÈ⁄U)— ◊„UÙŒÿ, ¡’ Ã∑§ ‚Êˇÿ •ÊÃ ⁄U„¥Uª, Ã’ Ã∑§ „U◊ ©U‚∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UÃ ⁄U„¥Uª, øÊ„U ©U‚◊¥ Á∑§ÃŸÊ „UË ‚◊ÿ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ ‹ª– ‚Êˇÿ ’⁄UÊ’⁄U •ÊÃ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– •÷Ë ÿÁŒ ∑§Ù߸ •ÊÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚„UË Ãâÿ ŒŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U, •Ê¬ ◊⁄UÊ ’ÿÊŸ ‹ ‹ËÁ¡∞, ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù ©U‚ ÷Ë ŒπŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∞‚Ê Ÿ „UÙ Á∑§ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ß‹ÒÄԇʟ •Ê ¡Ê∞– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥, ∑§◊≈UË ¡’ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ŒªË, Ã’ ŒπÊ ¡Ê∞ªÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is correct. But if you want to again open the Pandora’s Box, I have no problem. But then, it would be an open-ended thing, and it would go on. MD. SALIM: It is already opened. MR. CHAIRMAN: That is all right. But you have to close it somewhere. MD. SALIM: How can we take this as an evidence without asking the person whether he has made it or not? MR. CHAIRMAN: I am asking your views.

298 üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ∞∑§ ‚Ë«UË ©U◊Ê ÷Ê⁄UÃË ¡Ë Ÿ ÷Ë ŒË ÕË–

MR. CHAIRMAN: I am asking those individual Members. You see, some Members wanted to see it, and we saw it. Other videos were also sent to all of you and I presume that you have seen them also. So far, we have not seen this because we never felt that it would help us or it would be relevant in taking this case any further as far as our mission is concerned. Now, I am asking for your personal opinion as to what you feel after seeing it because I do not want to go on a wild goose chase. MD. SALIM: That is what they are doing. Once, Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav demanded that the CD contains something, which is going to be helpful for us. We have taken it in the Committee and now, it is in the minutes that Mr. Kulaste, as alleged, in this CD is saying something. So,, someone must have made it. It must be a sting operation. The Zee News has shown it. so, we should find out the origin of the tape; what promoted to make that tape; and whether it is true or not. Then, we can take cognizance of it. Otherwise, we cannot just take the cassette as an evidence. MR. CHAIRMAN: Salimbhai, let me be a little more specific. Firstly, as Malhotraji has put it, it is an accepted fact that this was a whistle blowing operation or a sting operation or whatever it is. So, there is nothing new that we have to discover on that. Who conducted the sting operation, whether it was Advaniji or whether it was Rajesh Vermaji or you or me, is not the question now. Am I right, Malhotraji? PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Yes, you are right. MR. CHAIRMAN: That is one aspect, which is known and an accepted fact. Secondly, over here, the name of Mr. Arun Jaitley has been mentioned as having knowledge of where the money came from. Now, for practical reasons, Mr. Arun Jaitley cannot be summoned by this Committee. We would have to go through a lengthy process, which has already been explained. So, in this situation and circumstance, I was just eliciting the views of the Members of the Committee as to whether we should go on this kind of an endless pursuit. What are we going to achieve out of this?

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÿÊ ÃÙ ß‚∑§Ù ’Ëø ◊¥ ‚ Á«U‹Ë≈U ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê∞—that it has no reference. ¬„U‹ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U Œπ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U, ©U‚ Œπ øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U– ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ Ÿ ¡Ù ∑ȧ¿U ∑§„UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ Á∑§ÃŸ ŸÙ≈U ÁŸ∑§Ê‹–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— fl„U ÃÙ ⁄‘U»§⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– We have already referred that to the Finance Ministry. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚ ⁄‘U»§⁄U ∑§Á⁄U∞– •ª⁄U ’È‹Ê∑§⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄UŸË „ÒU, ÃÙ ÃËŸÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ, ∑§fl‹ ∞∑§ ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ »§ÊÿŒÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „U٪ʖ

SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: I feel that we have collected all the relevant facts in the Committee. If you go on asking the VIPs and other people, there would be no end to it. So, my request to the hon. Chairman and the hon. Members of this Committee would be—the other day also I made a request to you—to draft the Report. One by one, we may incorporate the evidences recorded. One by one, we may have detailed discussion and decide about the issue.

299 MR. CHAIRMAN: Prof. Malhotraji and Md. Salimji, the fact is that we cannot call Mr. Arun Jaitley. That is number one. Secondly, going on calling people as names keep coming by, it would an exercise ad infinitive, and ultimately, it would an exercise in futility. So, if all of you agree, I think, we should come to some conclusion somewhere. As far as these post-dated DVDs are concerned, I think, we should put a lid over them. MD. SALIM: I agree with you. That is why from day one, I have been telling it. MR. CHAIRMAN: You see, I did not want to dishonour the request of the hon. Member. So, I did it. MD. SALIM: It is okay that you have honoured the request of the hon. Member. MR. CHAIRMAN: That is why I say I want to take your opinion. MD. SALIM: I take your version that otherwise it would be like opening a Pandora’s Box and hundreds of cassettes and CDs can be flooded. There are some people, who want to guide this Committee and there are some people, who want to misguide the Committee. Now, the Committee should take note of it. We are selectively saying that okay this is going to be established in my way and that is not going to be established in my way. So, I cannot make a pick and choose. But if we take cognizance of that, then we have to take it seriously. If you just keep it, all right, keep it. The Committees come across many documents. It is okay. Keep it, lying there! MR. CHAIRMAN: No. I have also gone into the details of what we saw here and what our hon. colleagues have said.

MD. SALIM: But then, I reiterate—∑§◊≈UË ß‚ ◊Ù«∏U ¬⁄U π«∏UË „ÒU Á∑§ ŒÙ ⁄UÊSÃ „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ πÈ‹ „Ò¥U—∞∑§ ÿ„U Á∑§ ß‚ „U◊ •ı⁄U flÊß«U⁄U ∑§⁄UÃ ¡Ê∞¢, ‹Ùª ÷Ë „U◊¥ ‚„UÊÿÃÊ ∑§⁄UÃ ¡Ê∞¢ª •ı⁄U „U◊ ©U‚∑§ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§Ù •Êª ’…∏UÊÃ ¡Ê∞¢ª– ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ „ÒU, ¡Ò‚ ∑ȧåԬ͂Ê◊Ë ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ, ¡Ù Ãâÿ „U◊¥ Á◊‹Ê, the information, which we have already got, the discussion we have had, the evidence we have, let us narrow it down. We have also to see whether we are going to have broad casting or narrow casting. If it is narrow casting, then I repeat, firstly, that there are certain missing-links, which we should focus on. If you allow, Sir, I can tell them one by one that these are the things, which we can collect and we can arrive at certain decision. MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, carry on. MD. SALIM: Firstly, based on those original cassettes, which were given by the CNN-IBN, which prompted these things, there were three complainants/evidences. One complainant, Mr. Bhagora has still not appeared before this Committee. We should again try to take his evidence. I think, by this time, if Mr. Mahavir Singh Bhagora, is well, he should come and appear before this Committee. Secondly, there were two more persons. One was the person who accompanied and carried the bag with Sanjeev Saxena. Nobody divulged his credentials. It was seen in the video. We should try to trace him and ask him to appear. His appearance would help us. Thirdly, the person, who drove the car to Mr. Amar Singh’s bungalow, is also a witness. We can easily locate him because the car number is there. The owner of the car is the driver, as far as I know. As per my own information, I tried to ascertain that. I did not submit it like others.

300 Fourthly, Mr. Sanjeev Saxena should be summoned once again, because in my opinion— Members may differ—that he did not divulge the truth under oath/affirmation. So, in that case, we should find out and again try to get the correct information. If he again refuses, whatever means we have, we should arrive at the decision. ©UŸ‚ ‚ëÔøÊ߸ ∑§Ù ©Uª‹flÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ–

Lastly, •ª⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ◊¥’⁄U øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ •ı⁄U Á∑§‚Ë ∑§Ë ‚„UÊÿÃÊ ‚ „U◊ ‚ëÔøÊ߸ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢Uø ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ÃÙ „U◊¥ ß‚◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ •Ê¬ÁûÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– „U◊ ©UŸ∑§Ù ÷Ë ’È‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U–

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∞∑§ ’ÊÃ, ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ Ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ fl„U •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ù ∑§÷Ë-∑§÷Ë Á◊‹Ã Õ •ı⁄U ©UŸ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ê ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ¬⁄UãÃÈ Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê •¬ŸÊ ‹≈U⁄U Á¡‚◊¥ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ©UŸ∑§Ù ‚∑˝§≈U⁄UË ∑§„UÊ „ÒU, fl„U „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ◊⁄UÊ ‚∑˝§≈U⁄UË „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ë ◊ŒŒ ∑§⁄‘¥U–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— »§ÙŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ÕÊ–

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— Ÿ„Ë¥, ‹≈U⁄U Á‹πÊ ÕÊ– He wrote a letter. ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ∑§Ù ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U •ı⁄U ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ◊Ò¥ ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ¡Ù ◊¥’‚¸ „Ò¥U, ߟ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊ ‹Ùª ¡Ò‚ ¬ÃÊ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§Ù ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ Ã⁄UË∑§Ê „ÒU, ÿÊ ÃÙ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ù ⁄‘U»§⁄U ∑§⁄‘¥U, S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬Í¿¥U ÿÊ ©UŸ∑§ øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚ ¬Í¿¥U– ©UŸ∑§Ù ◊ı∑§Ê „UË Ÿ„UË¥ ŒŸÊ Á∑§ fl •¬ŸË ’Êà „UË Ÿ ∑§„U ‚∑¥§, ÿ„U ÷Ë ◊ÈŸÊÁ‚’ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– fl„U •¬ŸË ’Êà ∑§Ù „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ⁄Uπ¥– •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ¡Ë ∑§Ê ÿÊ ¬˝»È§ÀÔ‹ ¬≈U‹ ∑§Ê ÿÊ Á¡Ÿ∑§Ê ÷Ë „ÒU, ©UŸ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ Ÿ ¡Ù-¡Ù ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§„UË „Ò¥U ...

◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ¬˝»È§‹ ¬≈U‹ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU–

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ‚ÊÚ⁄UË, •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹– I correct, myself. •Ê¬ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹¥, ß‚◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ „U¡¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ◊¥’‚¸ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊¥ ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞? •Ê¬ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹¥, ß‚◊¢ ∑§Ù߸ „U¡¸ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Á∑§ ߟ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¢ „U◊¥ ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, ß‚ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ù ⁄‘U»§⁄U ∑§⁄U Œ¥ ÿÊ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬Í¿U∑§⁄U ÿ„UÊ¢ ’È‹Ê ‹¥– Ÿ„UË¥ ÃÙ „U◊ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ù ÷¡ Œ¥ Á∑§ ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê ∑§ ∑§ß¸ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§ ŸÊ◊ •Êÿ „Ò¥U, ⁄UÊÖÿ ‚÷Ê Œπ Á∑§ ÄÿÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU–

üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‡ÊÈM§ ‚ ÿ„UË ∑§„UÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ø‹∑§⁄U ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ Ÿ ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ •Ê¡ Á¡‚ ◊Ù«∏U ¬⁄U ‚Á◊Áà π«∏UË „ÒU, ©U‚◊¥ ߟ ‚ÊˇÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ‚àÿ Ã∑§ ¬„È¢UøŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ Á¬∑§ ∞¢«U øÍ¡ Ÿ „UÙ, ¬Í⁄‘U ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •ÊŸ ŒËÁ¡∞, ©U‚◊¥ øÊ„U Á¡ÃŸÊ ‚◊ÿ ‹ª– ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ë Áø¢ÃÊ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª ÃÙ „U◊ ÃâÿÙ¥ Ã∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬„È¢Uø ¬Ê∞¢ª– ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚ëÔøÊ߸ •ÊŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ‚Ê⁄‘U ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬⁄UˡÊáÊ ∞fl¢ ‚àÿʬŸ, •ª⁄U ∑§⁄UŸÊ „UÙ ÃÙ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ∞∑§ ÿ„U ⁄UÊSÃÊ „ÒU—ß‚‚ ◊Ò¥ Á’À∑ȧ‹ ‚„U◊à „Í¢U– ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ ⁄UÊSÃÊ ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ¡Ù Ãâÿ ÿÊ ¬˝Ê‚¢Áª∑§ ‚Êˇÿ, ◊Ò≈UÁ⁄Uÿ‹ ß‚ ¡Ê¢ø ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê øÈ∑§ „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ∞∑§ «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U „UÙ, Á¡‚‚ ‚÷Ë ∞¢ÁªÀ‚ ‚ ‚ëÔøÊ߸ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§– ÃË‚⁄UÊ åÔflÊߢ≈U Á¡‚∑§Ê Á¡∑˝§ •÷Ë ‚‹Ë◊ ‚Ê„U’ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ, Á∑§ ∑ȧ¿U •ı⁄U ¬˝‡Ÿ ¬Í¿UŸÊ ’Ê∑§Ë „ÒU, ÃÙ ¬Í¿UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§Ê◊ „UÙ– •÷Ë ÿ„ UÃâÿ ÷Ë Á¿U¬Ê „ÈU•Ê „ÒU Á∑§ Á¡‚ √ÿÁÄÔà ∑§ „UÊÕ ‚ ¬Ò‚ ∑§Ê ’Òª ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ üÊË •ª¸‹ ¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ‹ÊÃ „ÈU∞ ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ, ©U‚∑§Ê ∑§„UË¥ ¬ÃÊ „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ©U‚ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ¬„È¢UøŸ flÊ‹Ê √ÿÁÄÔà ¡Ù flËÁ«UÿÙ ◊¥ ÁŒπ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ù •÷Ë Ã∑§ ≈˛U‚ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§Ê „ÒU– •ª⁄U ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄‘¥Uª Ã٠ߟ ‚Ê⁄‘U ÃâÿÙ¥ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸÊ „U٪ʖ

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ©U‚∑§Ù ≈˛U‚ ¡M§⁄U ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, fl„U •◊⁄UÁ‚¢„ U¡Ë ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ∑§ •ãŒ⁄U ‚Ë«UË ◊¥ ÷Ë ÁŒπÊ߸ Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– fl„U ¬ÃÊ ‹ª ¡Ê∞ªÊ, ©U‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ ¬˝ÊÚé‹◊ „ÒU– ©U‚∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ Á∑§ fl„U ∑§ıŸ „ÒU–

301 üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥ •¬ŸË ’Êà ∑§„U ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U– ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ¡Ù ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË „ÒU, fl„U ÃÙ ÁŒπ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ©U‚∑§Ù ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ÿ„UÊ¢ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– fl„U ÿ„UÊ¢ ∞‚ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ◊ȤÊ ’Ê„U⁄U ¡ÊŸÊ ÕÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ Œ‚ Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ù ¡Ù „UÊfl-÷Êfl ŒπÊ, ©U‚∑§Ë ¡Ù ’ÊÚ«UË-‹Ò¥ÇÔfl¥¡ ÁŒπ ⁄U„UË ÕË– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Œ‚ Á◊Ÿ≈U ◊¥ ‚◊¤ÊÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „UÊ¢, ©U‚∑§Ù ‚◊¤ÊŸ ◊¥ Œ‚ Á◊Ÿ≈U ‹ªÊ Á∑§ Á∑§‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ©U‚ •⁄‘¥U¡ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ– fl„U Á’À∑ȧ‹ •⁄‘¥UÖ«U ¬Ë¬È‹ ÕÊ ÿÊ ÄÿÊ ÕÊ, ◊Ò¥ Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÃÊ „Í¢U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ê „UÊfl-÷Êfl ∞‚Ê ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§Ë ’ÊÚ«UË-‹Ò¥ÇÔfl¡ •‹ª ÕË, fl„U ’Ù‹ ∑ȧ¿U •ı⁄ U⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ, ©U‚∑§ Ãâÿ ∑ȧ¿U •ı⁄U Õ– ÃËŸÙ¥ ◊¥ ∑§Ù߸ ◊‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ÕÊ– ¡’ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U ∑§Ë ’Êà „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ©UŸ∑§ ÉÊ⁄U ◊¥ ¡ÊÃ „ÈU∞ ªÊ«∏UË ◊¥ ©U‚∑§Ê ø„U⁄UÊ ŒπÊ ªÿÊ ÕÊ, ©UŸ‚ ÷Ë ‚ø ©Uª‹flÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, fl„U ÷Ë Ãâÿ ∑§Ù Á¿U¬Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ ‚ëÔøÊ߸ ÄÿÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊¥ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË •ı⁄U ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ∑§Ê ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡„UÊ¢ Ã∑§ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§Ë ’Êà „ÒU, ÿ„U ∞∑§ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà „ÒU, ß‚∑§Ê •¬ŸÊ ∞∑§ Ã⁄UË∑§Ê •ı⁄U ◊ÿʸŒÊ „ÒU– fl„UÊ¢ «UÊÄÔ≈U⁄U ÿ„U ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÃÊ „ÒU—ß‚ ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ÷⁄U ◊¥ ◊ÊŸflÊÁœ∑§Ê⁄UÙ¥ ∑§ Áπ‹Ê»§ ◊ÊŸÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ∞ÇÔ¡ÊÁ◊Ÿ‡ÊŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ë ∑§ß¸ ’Ê⁄U ãÿÊÿÊ‹ÿÙ¥ Ÿ ß‚ ∞Áfl«¥U‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ß‚∑§ ÷Ë ©UŒÊ„U⁄UáÊ ÁŒ∞ ª∞ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ∑ȧ¿U ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§ ’ÊŒ ÷Ë ¤ÊÍ∆U ’Ù‹Ÿ ∑§Ê SÔ≈ÒUÁ◊ŸÊ ’ŸÊ Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U πÈŒ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ‚ÁøflÊ‹ÿ Ÿ „UË Ãâÿ ¬‡Ê Á∑§∞ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ◊¥ ÷Ë •ª⁄U fl„U √ÿÁÄÔà ÁŒ‹ ‚ ◊¡’Íà „ÒU, ÃÙ fl„U ¤ÊÍ∆U ’Ù‹ ŒÃÊ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ãÿÊÿÊ‹ÿÙ¥ Ÿ ©U‚∑§Ù •ÊœÊ⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ◊ÊŸÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ∞«UÁ◊Á‚’‹ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊ÊŸÊ „ÒU– ©U‚◊¥ ∑§ß¸ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë ≈UÁÄÔŸ∑§Á‹≈UË „ÒU, ªÈàÕË „ÒU ∞fl¢ ¡Á≈U‹ÃÊ∞¢ „Ò¥U– ÿ„U ∞∑§ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà „ÒU– ¡’ „U◊ ‹Ùª ßÃŸË ≈ÒUÁÄÔŸ∑§‹ •ı⁄U ∞Ä‚¬≈¸U ¡Ê¢ø ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡Ê∞¢ª ÃÙ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§ß¸ •ãÿ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÷Ë ∞‚ ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÊŸ „UÙ¥ª– ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ üÊË ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ÷Ë ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UŸÊ ¡M§⁄UË „ÒU ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ •’ ŒÍ‚⁄UË ‚Ë«UË ÷Ë •Ê ªÿË „ÒU– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬∑§ ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∆UË∑§ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, •ª⁄U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU •ı⁄U ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ‚÷Ë ∑§Ê ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ „U٪ʖ üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ë „UÊ¢– •ª⁄U ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U „UÙªÊ ÃÙ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ üÊË ∑ȧ‹SÃ ¡Ë ∑§Ê ÷Ë ŸÊ∑§Ù¸ ≈US≈U ∑§⁄UÊŸÊ ¬«∏UªÊ– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ’„ÈUà ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ ’Êà ∑§„UË „ÒU Á∑§ ÿ„U •L§áÊ ¡Ë ¡ÊŸ¥ Á∑§ ŸÙ≈U ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ‹Ê∞– ÿ„U ’„ÈUà ª¢÷Ë⁄U ’ÿÊŸ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— „UÊ¢, Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ ª∞ „Ò¥U, fl„U ŒπŸÊ „U٪ʖ üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— fl„U ÃÙ •÷Ë •Ê¬Ÿ ÷Ë ‚ÈŸÊ „ÒU, ©Uã„UÙ¢Ÿ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ •L§áÊ¡Ë „UË ’ÃÊ∞¢ª Á∑§ ∑§ıŸ ‚ ŸÙ≈U, ∑§„UÊ¢ ‚ ÁŸ∑§‹∑§⁄U •Ê∞– ÿ„UË ’ÊÿŸ „ÒU ©UŸ∑§Ê, ¡Ù •÷Ë •Ê¬∑§Ù ÁŒπÊÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— Á∑§‚ ’Ò¥∑§ ‚ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹, Á∑§‚Ÿ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹, fl„U ÃÙ ¬ÃÊ ø‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÿ„U ’„ÈUà ◊„Uàfl¬Íáʸ ’Êà „ÒU, ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∞∑§ ŸÃÊ ¡Ù Œ‡Ê ∑§ ÷ÊflË ¬˝œÊŸ ◊¢òÊË ∑§ M§¬ ◊¥ ¬˝SÃÊÁflà „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§Ê ÷Ë ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU, ß‚Á‹∞ ©U‚∑§Ë ‚ëÔøÊ߸ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •ÊŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ∑ȧ‹SÔÃ ¡Ë ‚ø ’Ù‹¥ •ı⁄U ’ÃÊ∞¢ Á∑§ ‚ëÔøÊ߸ ÄÿÊ „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ∞∑§ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§ ⁄UÊcÔ≈˛UËÿ •äÿˇÊ ∑§Ê ÷Ë ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU, ∞∑§ ÷ÊflË ¬˝œÊŸ ◊¢òÊË ∑§Ê ŸÊ◊ Á‹ÿÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë •÷Ë Ã∑§ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ©U¬ÁSÕà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– ÿ„U ÷Ë ª¢÷Ë⁄U ’Êà „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ŒÙ ⁄UÊSÃ „Ò¥U, ∞∑§ ÃÙ ÿ„U Á∑§ ÿÁŒ •Ê¬ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÃâÿÙ¥ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢Uø, ¡Ù Ãâÿ ‚Ê◊Ÿ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U-¡Ù ‚Ë«UË ’ÊŒ ◊¥ ŒË ªß¸ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§Ê ∞∑§ •‹ª •äÿÊÿ „ÒU •ı⁄U ©U‚∑§Ù ÷Ë ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ÖÿÊŒÊ ‚◊ÿ ‹ËÁ¡∞– ŒÍ‚⁄UË ’Êà ÿ„U „ÒU Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ •Ê¬‚ √ÿÁÄÔêà •ŸÈ⁄UÙœ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U •Ê¡∑§‹ ∑§◊ Á‚Á≈¢UÇ‚ ‹Ë ¡Ê∞¢– ◊Ò¥ •÷Ë ’Ê„U⁄U ‚ •ÊÿÊ „Í¢U, ≈˛UŸ ‚ ©UÃ⁄UÊ •ı⁄U ‚Ëœ •Ê¬∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¬„È¢UøÊ– „U◊ ‹Ùª ’Ê…∏U ⁄UÊ„Uà ∑§ ∑§Êÿ¸ ◊¥ ÿÈhSÃ⁄U ¬⁄U ‹ª „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– ©U‚◊¥ ‚ ÷ʪ-

302 ÷ʪ∑§⁄U „U◊ ∑§◊≈UË ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§ Á‹∞ •ÊÃ „Ò¥U– ∞‚ ◊¥ „U◊ ŒÙ ÁŒŸ ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„U ¡ÊÃ „Ò¥U, •Ê¬ Á¡ÃŸË ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§⁄UŸÊ „UÙ ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¿ÈU≈˜UÔ≈UË ∑§⁄U ŒË ¡Ê∞ ÃÊÁ∑§ „U◊ fl„U ∑§Ê◊ ÷Ë ∑§⁄U ‚∑¥§– fl„U ◊ÊŸflËÿÃÊ ∑§Ê ‚flÊ‹ „ÒU, fl„UÊ¢ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ’øÊŸ ◊¥ ∑§Êÿ¸∑§ûÊʸ, ‚Ê◊ÊÁ¡∑§ ∑§Êÿ¸∑§ûÊʸ, ‚÷Ë ‹Ùª ‹ª „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U– ÿ„U ∑§fl‹ ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U ∑§ fl‡Ê ∑§Ë ’Êà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ¡Ë •÷Ë ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄UÁπ∞– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •ª⁄U Á‚Ãê’⁄U ÷⁄U ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§ÊÚ‹ Ÿ ∑§⁄U∑§, •ÄÔÃÍ’⁄U ◊¥ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ’È‹Ê∞¢ ÃÙ ∆UË∑§ „U٪ʖ

MR. CHAIRMAN: In October, it will not be possible for me. ◊Ò¥ ÷Ë •¬ŸË ∑§Ê¢S≈UË≈˜UÔfl¥‚Ë ◊¥ ¡Ê™¢§ªÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— Á»§⁄U ÷Ë ww-wx ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚ ¬„U‹ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª Ÿ ⁄UπË ¡Ê∞– ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ ¡Ë ∆UË∑§ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¢ Á∑§ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ⁄UπË ¡Ê∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: all right. You see, there are two or three points that I would like to mention. First, the Committee has taken cognizance of all the primary evidence that we have got, namely the tapes of CNN-IBN and the complainants. Now, we gave Shri Mahavir Bhagora two or three opportunities. But the thing is, if you may recall, you yourself insisted that they should come together because it was all three signatories in one complainant. ÃËŸ ◊¥ ‚ ŒÙ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ Ÿ •¬Ÿ ’ÿÊŸ Œ ÁŒ∞ „Ò¥U–

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ∞∑§ ’Ê⁄U ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ‚ ¬Í¿U ‹ËÁ¡∞, •ª⁄U fl„U •ÊŸ ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ◊¥ „UÙ¥ ÃÙ •Ê ¡Ê∞¢ª– You ask about his health also.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Definitely, we will enquire about that. ◊Ò¥ ÃËŸ ’Ê⁄U ŸÙÁ≈U‚ Œ øÈ∑§Ê „Í¢U, øıÕË ’Ê⁄U ŸÙÁ≈U‚ ŒŸ ◊¥ ◊ȤÊ ∑§Ù߸ ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ∞ÄÔøÈ•‹Ë ’Ë◊Ê⁄U „ÒU– ©UŸ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà ∑§≈UÊ⁄UÊ ¡Ò‚Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U, •ª⁄U ©UŸ∑§Ë Ã’Ëÿà ∆UË∑§ „UÙªË ÃÙ •fl‡Ôÿ •Ê∞¢ª–

MR. CHAIRMAN: I would only like to remind all of you that on your insistence, we made a departure from the usual procedure, and called them together. Normally, we call them separately. Shri Bhagoraji was not well. Anyway, we gave him three chances, and I will give him another chance. That is one aspect. Then, you see, the next thing is that as far as the man who is in yellow shirt and the driver are concerned, these are matters which we have already discussed in our last meeting, and I have also agreed with you as far as that is concerned. But in the light of the suggestion that I had made last time that since these require further detailed investigation, I had made a suggestion that we hand it over to an investigating agency, and we recommend that. I thought that probably, they could go into these matters because they have got the wherewithal. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •÷Ë ©U‚ •ÊŒ◊Ë ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ø‹ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ◊Ò¥ ‚∑˝§≈ÒUÁ⁄U∞≈U ‚ ÿ„U ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ©U‚∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÄÿÊ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§Ë ªÿË „ÒU? ©U‚ ‹Ù∑§≈U ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ÄÿÊ ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê „ÈU߸ „ÒU?

‚¢ÿÈÄÔà ‚Áøfl— ◊„UÙŒÿ, „U◊ ©U‚ ‹Ù∑§≈U ∑Ò§‚ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª ÿÊ ÃÙ we have to take the help of the police authorities because we do not have any wherewithal to locate.

303 ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— „U◊ ∑§◊≈UË¡ ◊¥ ∑Ò§‚ ∑§⁄UÃ „Ò¥U, „U◊ ¬Áé‹∑§ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ∞Áfl«¥U‚ ◊Ê¢ªÃ „Ò¥U ÿÊ ‚„UÊÿÃÊ ◊Ê¢ªÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ©UŸ∑§Ê »§Ù≈UÙ Œ∑§⁄U ãÿÍ¡¬¬‚¸ ◊¥ ÁflôÊÁåÔà ŒÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ Á¡‚ ©U‚ √ÿÁÄÔà ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË „UÙ ‚∑˝§≈ÒUÁ⁄U∞≈U ∑§Ù Á‹π¥– •Ê¬∑§Ù ß‚ Œ‡Ê ∑§ ŸÊªÁ⁄U∑§Ù¥ ¬⁄U ÷⁄UÙ‚Ê ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– •ª⁄U fl„U »§‹ „UÙÃÊ „ÒU, ÃÙ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ©U‚◊¥ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ÷Ë ‡ÊÊÁ◊‹ „ÒU– ¬Í⁄‘U Œ‡ÊflÊÁ‚ÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù „U◊ ÿ„U ∑§„¥Uª Á∑§ ÿ„U »§Ù≈UÙ „ÒU, ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ „U◊ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U, ©U‚ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë ◊¥ ߟ ÃÊ⁄UËπÙ¥ ¬⁄U ŒπÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU, Á¡‚∑§ ¬Ê‚ ∑§Ù߸ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË „UÙ, fl„ UŒ– ¬˝‚ ÁflôÊÁåÔà Œ∑§⁄U „U◊ ¬Áé‹∑§ ‚ ∞Áfl«¥U‚ ◊Ê¢ªÃ „Ò¥U, ©U‚◊¥ ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄UË, ªÒ⁄U-‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄UË ‚÷Ë ‹Ùª •Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: You see, this procedure has not been followed, I am told, by any Committee so far. It will be a totally new precedence that we will be setting. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ‚ ÿ„U ¬Í¿U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U Á∑§ •ª⁄U ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ©UŸ∑§Ù ¬ÃÊ „UÙ ÃÙ ¡ÊŸ∑§Ê⁄UË Œ¥– ßÃŸÊ ÃÙ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– There is nothing wrong in that. MR. CHAIRMAN: If that is the view of the Committee, then I will do so. ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— •Ê¬ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ ¬⁄UÁ◊‡ÊŸ ‹∑§⁄U ∞‚Ê ∑§⁄U ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will take his permission, and we will do that. My entire intention was that since we are deciding, we can do it. If we decide to give it to an investigating agency, then they can do this. Another thing is, as far as the hon. Members of the Rajya Sabha are concerned, we could probably write through the hon. Speaker to the Presiding Officer of the other House requesting them to at least give us in writing what their views are on this subject. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: That is all right. What about the call records? MR. CHAIRMAN: We can decide about that. Shall we decide about the next meeting? You wanted about the person in yellow shirt and the driver. Apart from writing through the hon. Speaker to the other House, we can take this up. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •ª‹Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§ ’ÊŒ ∑§÷Ë ÷Ë ⁄Uπ ‹¥ ÃÙ •ë¿UÊ ⁄U„UªÊ– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∞∑§ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª v} ∑§Ù ∑§⁄U ‹Ã „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ŒÍ‚⁄UË wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ∑§⁄U ‹¥ª– •Ê¬∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ÁfløÊ⁄U „ÒU? üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— v|, v} •ı⁄U v~ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù „U◊Ÿ •¬ŸË ∑§Ê¢S≈UË≈˜UÔÿÍ∞¢‚Ë ◊¥ ∑§Êÿ¸∑˝§◊ ⁄Uπ „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U, ß‚Á‹∞ ߟ ÃÊ⁄UËπÙ¥ ◊¥ „U◊ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— v~ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ‚ w{ ÃÊ⁄UËπ Ã∑§ „U◊ Œ‡Ê ‚ ’Ê„U⁄U „Ò¥U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ÷ªÙ⁄UÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ù ’È‹Ê ‹ËÁ¡∞ •ı⁄U ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •Ê¬ øÊ„¥U ÃÙ wz ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ŒÙ ‚ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞–

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: What about the telephones? MR. CHAIRMAN: About the telephones, the Department is there. It is only a question of recording their evidence. We are meeting only for further evidence. We can have our next meeting on 25th. Thank you all. [The Committee, then, adjourned]

304 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 25 September, 2008 MR. CHAIRMAN: I welcome you all to this meeting. Today we had decided to call our other colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagoda. He has sent us a communication saying that he is unwell and so he will not be able to attend the meeting. He has said that he will send the Medical Certificate later. Since he is our colleague I am not going to insist for the Medical Certificate. The other witness, Shri Hashmat Ali, the driver, has also not turned up. It is already 1145 hours. In the earlier meeting held on 11th September, there was a demand to take the evidence of the man in the ‘yellow shirt’. The Secretariat has tried to contact him through every angle but they have not been able to trace or even find out his identity. As far as Prof. Malhotra’s suggestion that we should write letters to the Members of the other House asking them for their views is concerned, this matter was referred to the Speaker, as suggested by all of you. Nothing has come from the hon. Speaker. From the Second Report of the Privileges Committee, which we are still following, I came to understand that even for writing letters the procedure is the same as for summoning. The procedure is same whether it involves appearing of the Member of the other House or their sending written reply. So, it is not possible to write to them for their written comments. We have taken all the evidence that we had with us. I think last time also we took a decision that we are not going to open a Pandora box by going through anything and everything that comes. At this juncture, with the material that we have before us, I suggest that we go ahead and deliberate whatever we can. MD. SALIM: Before coming to your suggestion, I would like to talk about the information that you have given. Today, the driver has not turned up. I would like to know from the Secretariat as to whether they could establish the contact with the driver or locate him; what his response was and what is the current reporting as to why he has not come. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Secretariat has informed me that they contacted Shri Sohail Hindustani. He had promised the Secretariat that he would ensure that the driver, whose name he told was Shri Hashmat Ali, would appear before the Committee. We have no direct contact with Shri Hashmat Ali. Since Shri Sohail had appeared before us, the Committee depended on him but he has failed to turn up today for giving evidence. üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— •Ê¬∑§Ê ‚ê¬∑¸§ ∑Ò§‚ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ? ÄÿÊ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ‚ „ÈU•Ê ÕÊ? PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: You just now said that he is on the way. JOINT SECRETARY: We have just now contacted Shri Sohail Hindustani and he said that Shri Hashmat Ali was on the way but he has been kidnapped by somebody. MD. SALIM: Sir, there are two aspects. One is, when the Parliament asks someone to appear for evidence, we should have tried to establish direct contact instead of contacting some ‘dalal’. I am saying him as ‘dalal’ because I had quoted him so earlier also when he came for the evidence. Shri Sohail, who has given evidence before the Committee, could help us by giving his name and address. Otherwise, since it was a self-driven car, from the registration number of the car we could have very easily found out the motor vehicle and its owner and from the owner the name of the driver. Normally,, when some accident takes place this is how the person’s identity is found out. So, the Secretariat also should have done this.

307 Secondly, if someone who is on the way to Parliament or giving evidence is kidnapped, it is a serious thing. This is another question as to whether we should take the words of Shri Sohail seriously. If it is true, I do not know, whether we should take lightly that someone while on the way to Parliament for tendering evidence is kidnapped. Or, should we inform the police about it that someone we have asked for, as per our information through a person, is kidnapped because after all he is a citizen of this country? PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: If somebody says that someone is kidnapped, whether he is reliable or not is the question. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: The position is that no direct contact has been made with the person concerned. Definitely, direct contact should have been made. If somebody has said that he will produce the driver, we should have asked his telephone number and address and then contacted him directly. Now it should be verified as to whether while coming here he is kidnapped or voluntarily has gone somewhere or what is the position. This must be ascertained. Naturally, it is a serious offence if someone is kidnapped while coming to tender evidence before the Committee. We have to watch all these things and find it out and after that we can meet again and decide the things. SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: I think we have collected enough material to draft the Report. I am yet to understand what purpose is going to serve by calling the driver. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We can meet again and then take a decision. üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§Ù •Ê¡ ∑§ÊÚ‹ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ ¡Ò‚ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ •ÊÚÁ»§‚‚¸ Ÿ ’ÃÊÿÊ Á∑§ ©U‚‚ «UÊÿ⁄ÒUÄÔ≈U ∑§Ù߸ ∑§ÊÚã≈ÒUÄ≈U Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙ ¬ÊÿÊ– ‚È„U‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ’È‹Ê∞¢ª •ı⁄U ©U‚Ÿ ’ÃÊ ÁŒÿÊ Á∑§ fl„U Á∑§«UŸÒ¬ „UÙ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ ‚àÿÃÊ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ß‚ ªê÷Ë⁄UÃÊ ‚ ‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË Ÿ •ª⁄U ©U‚‚ ∑§ÊÚã≈ÒUÄ≈U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù ©U‚∑§Ê Ÿê’⁄U ‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ •ı⁄U ©U‚‚ «UÊÿ⁄ÒUÄÔ≈U ∑§ÊÚã≈ÒUÄÔ≈U ∑§⁄U∑§ ’È‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Prof. Malhotra and Shri Rajesh Verma, let me clarify to you that my Secretariat had asked Shri Sohail Hindustani for the contact number of the driver. They had asked him for his cell number, his telephone number, address, etc. He refused to divulge any information about the contact address of Shri Hashmat Ali. He has asked us to send the letter to him and that it is his responsibility to see that he appears before the Committee. So, the Secretariat has made an effort. It is not as if they have slept over the matter. They have tried to get a direct contact with the driver. üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— ß‚◊¥ ∞¬˝Ùø ∑§Ë ¡Ê∞ •ı⁄U ©U‚ •ª‹Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ◊¥ ’È‹ÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UUÙòÊÊ— •‚‹ ◊¥ ¬ÈÁ‹‚ ∑§Ù ∑§„UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞ ÕÊ– ◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ŒÍ‚⁄UË ‚Êß«U ‚ ∑§„UÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ◊Ù≈U⁄U Á√Ô„U∑§‹ ∑§ ⁄UÁ¡S≈˛U‡ÊŸ Ÿê’⁄U ‚ •ı⁄U ªÊ«∏UË ∑§ ŸÊ◊ ‚ ◊ÊÁ‹∑§ ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ª ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– Is it the only contact with Shri Sohail Hindustani? ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ¡’ ‚È„U‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË «UÊßflÀ¡ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ©U‚∑§Ê ◊ÒÁ≈UÁ⁄Uÿ‹ ‚’S≈Ò¥UÁ‡Êÿ‹ ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ÃÙ ◊⁄‘U ÅÿÊ‹ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– We can proceed further. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ◊Ò¥Ÿ ‚È„U‹ ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ∑§Ù ‡ÊÈM§ ◊¢ ŒπÊ ÕÊ– ©U‚∑§Ë ’ÊÚ«UË ‹Ò¥ÇÔfl¡ ‚ ‚’ øË¡ ¬ÃÊ ‹ª ¡ÊÃË „ÒU– •Ê¡ ÷Ë ¡Ù Ãâÿ «˛UÊßfl⁄U ∑§ Áfl·ÿ ◊¥ ¬˝SÃÈà Á∑§∞ ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©U‚∑§Ë ‚ëÔøÊ߸ ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊ∞ Á’ŸÊ ÿ„U ◊Ê◊‹Ê ªê÷Ë⁄U

308 „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ‚Êˇÿ ŒŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ∑§Ù߸ ÷Ë ’Ëø ◊¥ •Ê ªÿÊ ÃÙ ◊Ê◊‹Ê ªê÷Ë⁄U „UÙ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ∑§„UÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚ ⁄UÙ∑§Ê ªÿÊ– ◊ȤÊ ß‚∑§Ë ‚àÿÃÊ ¬⁄ U‚¢Œ„U „ÒU– ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ ¡Ù ߟ»§◊¸‡ÊŸ ŒË „ÒU, fl„U ◊ȤÊ Á’À∑ȧ‹ Á»§ÁÄÔ≈UÁ‡Êÿ‚ •ı⁄U ◊Ÿª…∏¢Uà ‹ª ⁄U„UË „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ß‚ ¬˝◊ÊÁáÊà Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‚∑§ÃÊ „Í¢U ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊ȤÊ ‹ªÃÊ „ÒU– ‚ÁøflÊ‹ÿ ÿ„UÊ¢ ‚ÍøŸÊ Œ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ «UÊÿ⁄ÒUÄÔ≈U ‚ê¬∑¸§ Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU– ⁄UÊ¡Ê Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿÁŒ ¬òÊ Á‹π¥ª Ã’ ©U¬‹éœ „U٪ʖ ©Uã„UÙ¥Ÿ Ÿê’⁄U ŒŸ ‚ ßã∑§Ê⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ „ÒU– ©U‚∑§Ê ‚Á◊Áà ‚ ‚ê¬∑¸§ ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§Ê ¡Ù Á’ãŒÈ, Ã⁄UË∑§Ê •ı⁄U S≈U≈◊¥≈U ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU, ‚’ «UÊ©U≈U»È§‹ „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ß‚∑§ ÃâÿÙ¥ ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ŒÍ‚⁄UÊ, „U◊Ê⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ¡Ù ◊ÒÁ≈UÁ⁄Uÿ‹ •ı⁄U ‚Êˇÿ „Ò¥U, ©UŸ∑§ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U •Ê¬ ß‚∑§Ë «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U ∑§Á⁄U∞, Á»§⁄U ’Ò∆U∑§ ’È‹Êß∞– ß‚◊¥ ¡Ù ÷Ë Ã⁄UË∑§Ê „ÒU, Á∑§ÃŸ Ãâÿ •Ê∞, ÄÿÊ „ÈU•Ê, ∑§„UÊ¢ ¬„È¢Uø, „U◊¥ ß‚∑§Ê ∑ȧ¿U ¬ÃÊ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ª ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– „U◊ ‚÷Ë ‚Êˇÿ ‹Ã ¡Ê ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– «˛UÊçÔ≈U ÃÙ «˛UÊçÔ≈U „UÙÃÊ „ÒU– ©U‚◊¥ „◊¥ •¬ŸË ∑§ß¸ ’ÊÃ¥ ∑§„UŸ ∑§Ê ◊ı∑§Ê Á◊‹ªÊ– ß‚ ’„ÈUà ‹¢’Ê πË¥øÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ¡Ù ÷Ë ‚Êˇÿ ‹ŸÊ „ÒU, ‹¥– „U◊¥ ⁄UÙ¡ •ÊŸ ◊¥ ÁŒÄÔ∑§Ã „UÙÃË „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¬„U‹ ÷Ë Á⁄U∑§flÒS≈U ∑§Ë ÕË– •Ê¡∑§‹ ◊¥ Á¡ÃŸË Á‚Á≈¢ª ∑§⁄UŸË „UÙ¥, ∑§⁄U ‹¥– „U◊¥ ÕÙ«∏UÊ Á⁄U‹Ë»§ ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê∞ ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ „U◊ ∑§Ê◊ ◊¥ ‹ª „Ò¥U– •Ê¬ Á’„UÊ⁄U ∑§ ’Ê…∏U ¬ËÁ«∏UÃÙ¥ ∑§Ë ÁSÕÁà Œπ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ⁄UÊÖÿ ◊¥ ’„ÈUà ÷ÿÊŸ∑§, ŒÈπŒ •ı⁄U ªê÷Ë⁄U ÁSÕÁà „ÒU– ß‚Á‹∞ ◊ȤÊ Á’„UÊ⁄U ¡ÊŸÊ ¬«∏UÃÊ „ÒU– ∞∑§- ŒÙ ÁŒŸ ÿÊ øÊ„U Á¡ÃŸ ÁŒŸ ’Ò∆UŸÊ „UÙ, ŒÙ-ÃËŸ Á‚Á≈¢Uª ∑§⁄U∑§ ß‚ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞ •ı⁄U Á∑§‚Ë ÁŸcÔ∑§·¸ ¬⁄U ¬„È¢UøÊ ¡Ê∞– Á¡‚ ∑§Ê ÷Ë ‚Êˇÿ ‹ŸÊ „UÙ, ©U‚∑§Ë ÷Ë ∞∑§ Á‚Á≈¢Uª ∑§Á⁄U∞– ŒÙŸÙ¥ ‚ÊÕ-‚ÊÕ ø‹Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U– ‚Êˇÿ ‹Ÿ ∑§Ê, ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§Ê, ‚ê¬∑¸§ ∑§⁄Ÿ‘U ∑§Ê ∑§Ê◊ „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ¡M§⁄U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U ∑§⁄UŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ©U‚∑§ Á‹∞ ‚ÁøflÊ‹ÿ ∑§Ù •Áœ∑Χà ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞, ◊Ò¥ ß‚ ⁄UÊÿ ∑§Ê „Í¢U– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ߟ∑§Ê «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ‚ ◊Ë’ „ÒU Á∑§ •’ Ã∑§ ¡Ù „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, ©UŸ ‚’ ∑§Ù ∑§ê¬Êß‹ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ß‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ¡Ù-¡Ù ÄÔflÒ‡Ôøã‚ ©U∆UÃ „Ò¥U, fl •Ê¬∑§Ù ’Ëø-’Ëø ◊¥ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ‚ ¬„U‹ ’ÃÊ Œ¥ª– Then we can take a decision.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You may appreciate the fact that if somebody has been kidnapped on the way to depose before the Committee, it is a serious matter. I am not denying it. But I cannot go by what Shri Sohail Hindustani said something over telephone. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ù Á∑§«UŸÒ¬ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU, fl„U ∞∑§ ªê÷Ë⁄U ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– •ª⁄U fl„U Ÿ„UË¥ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU ÃÙ ‚È„U‹ ∑§Ù Á»§⁄ U∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ’È‹Êß∞– ª‹Ã ’Êà ∑§„UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •ª⁄U ◊È∑§Œ◊Ê ø‹ÊŸÊ „UÙ ÃÙ fl„U ÷Ë ø‹ÊŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ÿ„U ∑§◊≈UË ◊Ê◊Í‹Ë Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ÿ„U ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ∑§Ë „UÊ߸ ‹Òfl‹ ∑§◊≈UË „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is a matter to be investigated not by the Committee. I do not want my Secretariat to do policing. It has to be done by the investigating authority to find out whether there is truth in it or not. Both of them will have to be apprehended and caught. So, based on the material that is available and whatever we have collected, if you authorise me, we will prepare a draft report, circulate it and in the next meeting, we will discuss the matter in depth.

Another point is, we will ask for extension of time till 20th October. I think everybody is agreed upon this point. I propose that the next meeting may be on 3rd October. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ◊„UÙŒÿ, x •ÄÔÃÍ’⁄U ∑§Ù ªÊ¢œË ¡ÿ¢ÃË ∑§Ê ¬˝Ùª˝Ê◊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: I want all of you to be present on the day of the meeting.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We can sit on 13th October. Then we can sit on 14th and 16th October, 2008 and finalise the report.

309 MR. CHAIRMAN: 13th October, 2008 is too near as far as finalising the report is concerned. Then we will have to ask for extension for a longer period. MD. SALIM: We can have our Draft Report prepared from whatever material we have got. We would also like to see the Draft Report in a serious way. You cannot see the draft on 14th October and pass it on 15th October. We have been given time. If we meet on 3rd October, then we can apply our mind and then take another ten or fifteen days for finalising the report. If required, we can sit during Puja time and then we can finalise the Report either on 15th or 16th of October, 2008. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We have so many Committees. Shri C. Kuppusami is the Chairman of the Parliamentary Pay Committee in respect of Officers and staff. We have to decide about it. So we require time. We can sit on 15th and 16th October, 2008 and then we can finalise the report. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— •Ê¬ ≈U‹Ë»§ÙŸ ∑§⁄U∑§ ⁄UÊÿ ‹ ‹ËÁ¡∞ ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ∑§Ë ÃÊ⁄UËπ ’ÃÊ ŒËÁ¡∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. (The Committee, then, adjourned)

310 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 6 October, 2008 MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members and Distinguished Colleagues,

I welcome you all to this meeting. At the very outset, let me mention that last time when we met, in fact, I think, we took considerable amount of time to decide the date of the next meeting because I wanted to take every Member’s convenience before deciding on today’s date and I remember that the 3rd was the date which was suggested. Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav said that he would not be able to come on the 3rd because the 2nd was Gandhi Jayanti and then on the 12th and the 13th, Md. Salim said that it would not be convenient for him and ultimately after everyone had agreed that the 6th will be a convenient date that I fixed up today’s meeting.

Well, Durga Puja is there for all. In fact, I have come all the way specifically for this meeting and I have to rush back tomorrow early morning because tomorrow is the Maha Ashtami. I have come only for this meeting leaving pujas in my place which is one of the most important pujas to attend for us and for the public in that place. So, if some Members say that today is not convenient, it is really unfortunate because every Member had gone on record stating that the 6th would be a convenient date.

I have circulated the draft Report. It was circulated on the 3rd of this month. Malhotraji says that he did not receive it on the 3rd. Latest by 3rd night or by 4th morning it should have reached all of us. Anyway, I do not know why this delay has taken place. The other day, Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav said that on the 6th he would certainly make it convenient and come here. I am told that he is on his way and I hope that he would be here in a short while.

I have circulated this Report to all the Members. I would like the Members to give their views regarding this particular Draft Report that has been circulated. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, ÿ„U ¡Ù «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U „ÒU, ¡Ò‚ÊÁ∑§ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬„U‹ ∑§„UÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§‹ „UË ŒπÊ „ÒU– I have had no time to study it. Whatever I have read, I read it from the newspapers.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is also another unfortunate thing.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: In 3-4 newspapers I read the gist of the whole thing. My submission is that we will read it and give our comments in writing, whether we agree with it or whether we disagree with it. After that, another meeting should beheld. By that time, we will study it and give our comments on that and then you can take a decision.

PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I got the Report day before yesterday. Though it was a busy day, still I managed to go through it.

As regards the Report, I have some reservations. Some points are very clear,,, some facts are very clear. First of all, the entire conspiracy was hatched by the BJP men whether he is Kulkarni or Sohail, they accepted that they are BJP men and they accepted that they did it.

Secondly, Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora brought currency notes into the House which maligned the image of the Lok Sabha not only in our country, but in the entire world. This is also clear and I am of the view that these MPs are guilty of breach of privilege.

313 The statement of Sanjeev Saxena and one DVD pertaining to Kulasteji that we saw here clearly corroborate the fact that money was arranged by a very senior leader of the BJP—I do not want to name our colleague—but both have come to the same statement. There is no mention of these facts here. The sole aim, so far as I think, was to malign the UPA Government and to show to the people that the Confidence Vote which the Government is going to win is manipulated and to raise a question mark on the credibility of the vote in the House itself. Another point I want to make is that our House is a supreme body. It was got the right to penalise or punish any Member who is guilty of breach of privilege. We can reprimand them, the House can reprimand them and the House can send them to jail also. These are examples. So, I think, the matter should not be left to other agencies. Whatever we want to do, we should do. This is what I want to say. MR. CHAIRMAN: Professor, let me react to what you have said. As far as the privilege issue is concerned, it is a separate issue altogether. There is a separate Committee on Privileges and if some Member gives a notice to the hon. Speaker and if he refers that to the Privileges Committee, that Committee will look into it. Fortunately or unfortunately I am the Chairman of that Committee also. It has not yet come to me. But if there is a breach of privilege which has occurred, normally the procedure is, if any Member writes to the Speaker, the Speaker inquires into the matter and feels that prima facie there is a case of breach of privilege that had taken place, he refers it to the Committee of Privileges and it is only after that the Committee can take up the matter of breach of privilege. So, our mandate was not to go into the privilege issue. After all, you will appreciate the fact that this Committee was constituted to find out whether cash was given for exercising vote or not. I agree with you that Parliament is the supreme body as far as protection of its privileges are concerned. There is a Privilege Committee, there are precedents, there are conventions and if and when the matter is referred to the Privileges Committee, I am sure the Privileges Committee will look into it and deal with it in an appropriate manner. With regard to the other observations that you have made, I would like to very humbly submit that these have been included in the observations that we have written. But as I had mentioned earlier, since we are not an investigation agency and since we are not a policing body, matters which relate to policing or investigations are beyond the scope of this Committee because of reasons that are beyond us. We do not have the wherewithal or the mechanism for conducting such investigations. So, we thought that the appropriate thing will be to send only those matters, and not the privilege matters, to any other investigating agency. Malhotraji, I have got a recording of the last meeting where Md. Salim had himself said that the 6th would be a convenient date. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Today when I rang him up, he said that earlier itself he said that the 6th would not be convenient for him. But anyway, that is not a question. MR. CHAIRMAN: It is not a question, but I just wanted to show it to you because this is on record. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— øÿ⁄U◊ÒŸ ‚Ê„U’, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬„U‹ „UË ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ß‚ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥Ÿ ¬…∏UÊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ß‚∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ¡Ù ãÿÍ¡¬¬‚¸ ◊¥ ¿U¬Ê, ©U‚ ŒπÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U •÷Ë ¡Ù ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl ¡Ë Ÿ ∑§„UÊ, ©U‚ „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ ‚ÈŸÊ „ÒU– „U◊ ‚÷Ë ‹Ùª ß‚

314 Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ù ¬…∏UŸ ∑§ ’ÊŒ •¬Ÿ ÁfløÊ⁄U •ı⁄U Á⁄U∞ÄÔ‡Êã‚ Á‹Áπà M§¬ ◊¥ Œ Œ¥ª– ©UŸ∑§Ù •Ê¬ ‚∑ȸ§‹≈U ∑§⁄U ŒËÁ¡∞– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ’Ò∆U∑§⁄U „U◊ ‚÷Ë »Ò§‚‹Ê ∑§⁄U ‹¥– ß‚ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ◊¥, •ÊÁπ⁄U ◊¥ ¡Ù Á‹πÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚ ߟflS≈U˪Á≈¢Uª ∞¡¥‚Ë ∑§Ù ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê∞, fl„U ÃÙ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ©U‚‚ ¬„U‹ ¡Ù ÄÔ‹ËŸ Áø≈U Œ ŒË ªÿË, ◊⁄UË ⁄UÊÿ ◊¥ ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ◊¥ •◊⁄U Á‚¢„U •ı⁄U •„U◊Œ ¬≈U‹ ∑§Ê ߟflÊÀfl◊¥≈U ÁÄ‹ÿ⁄U „ÒU-ß‚◊¥ ∑§„UË¥ ÿ„U ⁄‘U»§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ‚¢¡Ëfl ‚ÄÔ‚ŸÊ ©UŸ∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UÃ ⁄U„U, ©UŸ∑§ ‚∑˝§≈U⁄UË ⁄U„U– MR. CHAIRMAN: But that has been referred. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: That is what I say. Since all these points have to be taken into consideration, you fix up another meeting. MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, as I mentioned at the very outset, we are not here to fix somebody or exonerate somebody. So, I had to go on the basis of evidence and records that were before me. I cannot create records. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: I agree with you. But whatever I read in the papers was that a clean chit has been given. There is no question of giving clean chit to anybody. But I would like to study the Report fully. MR. CHAIRMAN: Fortunately or unfortunately, you are the most senior Member of the Committee and while you have not got a copy of the Report, I do not know how newspapers caught hold of it and I would like to say that it is most unfortunate and I want to go on record and express my resentment. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: We should have been given at least 72 hours to study the Report. MR. CHAIRMAN: In The Indian Express front page, they have written something. I cannot be responsible for what some journalists write. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— ß‚ „U◊ ¬„U‹ ¬…∏UŸÊ øÊ„¥Uª Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ „ÒU– ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– üÊË ⁄UÊ¡‡Ê fl◊ʸ— «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ¬…∏UŸ flÊ‹Ë „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚ÊÕ ÷Ë ÿ„UË ‚◊SÿÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ∑§‹ ⁄UÊà ∑§Ù „UË ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬„È¢UøÊ „Í¢U ß‚Á‹∞ ß‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬…∏U ¬ÊÿÊ– ¬˝Ù»§‚⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ÷Ë fl„UË ’Êà ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ∑§Ù߸ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬…∏U ¬ÊÿÊ „ÒU– „U◊ ‹Ùª •¬Ÿ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ˇÊòÊÙ¥ ◊¥ √ÿSà ⁄U„U, ß‚Á‹∞ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬…∏U ¬Ê∞– •ª⁄U fl„UÊ¢ ß‚∑§Ë ∞∑§ ∑§Ê¬Ë ¬„È¢Uø ¡ÊÃË ÃÙ ‡ÊÊÿŒ „U◊¥ ÕÙ«∏UÊ ¬…∏UŸ ∑§Ê ◊ı∑§Ê Á◊‹ ¡ÊÃÊ– ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊¥ ÕÙ«∏UÊ ◊ı∑§Ê ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê∞ •ı⁄U ß‚ ‚ê’㜠◊¥ ¡Ù ÁfløÊ⁄U „UÙªÊ „U◊ •Ê¬∑§Ù Á‹Áπà M§¬ ◊¥ Œ Œ¥ª– ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ÃÒÿÊ⁄U ∑§Ë ¡Ê∞– ∑ȧ¿U øË¡¥ ∞‚Ë •Ê߸ „Ò¥U, ¡Ò‚ ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§ ’ÿÊŸ •Ê∞, flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ÷Ë ŒπË ªß¸– ÿ øË¡¥ Œ‡Êʸ ⁄U„UË ÕË¥ Á∑§ ’ÿÊŸ ŒŸ flÊ‹ ◊È∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ •ı⁄U ¡Ù ∑§„U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ÿ„U ‚àÿ ‚ ¬⁄‘U „ÒU– ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ÿ„U ÷Ë øøʸ ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ Á∑§ ߟ∑§Ê ŸÊ⁄U∑§ÙÁ≈UÄ‚ ≈ÒUS≈ U∑§⁄UÊÿÊ ¡Ê∞, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ∑§◊≈UË Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ÿ„U ‚ê÷fl Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ◊⁄UÊ •¬ŸÊ ◊à „ÒU Á∑§ flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ ∑§Ù •ª⁄U •ÊœÊ⁄U ◊ÊŸÊ ¡ÊÃÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ©U‚ •ÊœÊ⁄U ¬⁄U ¡Ù ª‹Ã ’ÿÊŸ „UÙ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ©UŸ ¬⁄U ÷Ë ÁfløÊ⁄U „UÙŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ◊Ò¥Ÿ •÷Ë ÿ„U «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U Ÿ„UË¥ ¬…∏UË „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ ÄÿÊ √ÿÍ¡ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U– ∞∑§ ÁŒŸ ÿ„UÊ¢ ∞∑§ ªflÊ„U •ÊŸÊ ÕÊ, ¡Ù «˛UÊßfl⁄U ÕÊ– ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬⁄U ’ÃÊÿÊ ªÿÊ Á∑§ ©U‚∑§Ê Á∑§«UŸÒ¬ „UÙ ªÿÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ Ÿ„UË¥ •Ê ‚∑§Ê– fl„U ‡ÊÄÔ‚ ≈UËflË ◊¥ ∞∑§ øÒŸ‹ ¬⁄ S≈U≈U◊¥≈U Œ ⁄U„UÊ ÕÊ Á∑§ ©U‚∑§ ‚ÊÕ ÄÿÊ-ÄÿÊ „ÈU•Ê– ß‚Á‹∞ ߟ ‚’ ’ÊÃÙ¥ ∑§Ù ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù ‚¢ôÊÊŸ ◊¥ ‹ŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ◊Ò¥Ÿ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ¬…∏UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ß‚Á‹∞ „U◊¥ ÕÙ«∏UÊ ◊ı∑§Ê ÁŒÿÊ ¡Ê∞, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ „U◊ •¬Ÿ ÁfløÊ⁄U Á‹Áπà ◊¥ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù Œ Œ¥ª– SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am also of the same opinion expressed by Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav. We have deliberated so many times and we have recorded evidences of so many

315 persons. As far as I am concerned, we are not able to fix any responsibility or find out anything out of it. Sir, I have not gone through the Draft Report circulated to us as I came to Delhi today at 10.30 a.m. only. Sir, what I want to say is that as far as the witnesses are concerned, we have examined them, we have cross-examined them, and we have given time for them. We have deliberated upon it and also discussed it. After going through the Draft Report, I can give you my views on this, and it is not possible for me to give my views before going through the draft report. I feel that the Committee is empowered to suggest certain punishment to the Members. We cannot punish them... MR. CHAIRMAN: The Committee does not have that authority. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: How can the Committee punish the Members? SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: We can send our views to the Speaker. MR. CHAIRMAN: What Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav has said is an issue which is not actually before our Committee. As and when that comes, we will deal with it. But the privilege notice will be dealt with by the Privileges Committee. Now, Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ, ◊⁄UË ≈˛UŸ ‹≈U ÕË, ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∞∑§ ¬¡ ÷Ë ß‚ «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ê Ÿ„UË¥ ¬…∏UÊ „ÒU– ∑ȧ¿U∑§ ’ÊÃ¥ •π’Ê⁄UÙ¥ ◊¥ ¿U¬Ë „Ò¥U, fl ◊ȤÊ Á◊‹Ë „Ò¥U, ∑ȧ¿U ¬Ë≈UË•Ê߸ ‚ ãÿÍ¡ ø‹Ë ªß¸ ÕË, fl„U ŒπË „ÒU– ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ Ã∑§ „U◊ ¬Í⁄UË «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ê •äÿÿŸ Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§⁄U ‹Ã, Ã’ Ã∑§ ß‚ ¬⁄U ∑§Ù߸ ⁄UÊÿ ŒŸÊ ◊ÈŸÊÁ‚’ Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªÊ, ÄÿÙ¥Á∑§ ÿ„U ∞∑§ ªê÷Ë⁄U ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– ‚Ê⁄UË ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ◊¥ „U◊Ê⁄UË ‚¢‚Œ ∑§Ë ◊ÿʸŒÊ, ‚Êπ •ı⁄U ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë Áfl‡Ôfl‚ŸËÿÃÊ ÃÕÊ ∑˝§Á«UÁ’Á‹≈UË ¬⁄U ¬˝‡ÔŸ Áøã„U ‹ªÊ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– „U◊ ‚Êà ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚¢‚Œ-‚ŒSÿ ß‚ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚ŒSÿ „Ò¥U, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏UÙ¥ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë Ÿ¡⁄‘¥U ß‚ ∑§◊≈UË ¬⁄U ‹ªË „ÈU߸ „Ò¥U Á∑§ ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ù Á∑§‚ M§¬ ◊¥ Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥ ß‚ ¬⁄U ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ– ÿ„U ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ ß‚◊¥ Á¬˝flË‹¡ ∑§Ê ◊Ê◊‹Ê ÷Ë „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ fl„U •‹ª ’Êà „ÒU– Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ‚ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ∑§Êÿ¸ ÁŸÿ◊Êfl‹Ë ∑§Ù œÃÊ ’ÃÊÿÊ ªÿÊ, πÈ‹•Ê◊ ‚ŒŸ ◊¥ ©UÀÔ‹¢ÉÊŸ Á∑§ÿÊ ªÿÊ, ¬Ê≈¸U ∞¢«U ¬Ê‚¸‹, ©U‚ ∑Ò§‡Ê ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø „U◊Ê⁄UË ÿ„U ‚Á◊Áà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„UË „ÒU– ß‚ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ë ¡Ù ≈Uꂸ ∞¢«U ∑¢§«Uˇʢ‚ „Ò¥U, Á¡êÔ◊ŒÊ⁄UË „ÒU, „U◊¥ ©U‚∑§ ÄUà ∑§Ê◊ ∑§⁄UŸÊ „ÒU– ß‚◊¥ Á¬˝flË‹¡ ∑§Ê ¡Ù ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU, ©U‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ù Á¬˝flË‹¡ ∑§◊≈UË ŒπªË– ß‚ ¬⁄U •Ê¬∑§Ë M§Á‹¢ª ÷Ë „ÒU ß‚Á‹∞ ◊Ò¥ ß‚ ¬⁄U ∑ȧ¿U Ÿ„UË¥ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ– ⁄UÊ◊ªÙ¬Ê‹ ¡Ë Ÿ •÷Ë •¬ŸË ’Êà ∑§„UË– ◊⁄UË ≈˛UŸ ‹≈U ÕË, ◊Ò¥ ÕÙ«∏UÊ Œ⁄U ‚ ¬„È¢UøÊ, ß‚Á‹∞ ¬Í⁄UË ’Êà ©UŸ∑§Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ‚ÈŸ ¬ÊÿÊ– ◊Ò¥ ßÃŸÊ ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÿ„U ∞∑§ ª¢÷Ë⁄U ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, ‚’ ‚ŒSÿ ¡’ ß‚ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ê •äÿÿŸ ∑§⁄U ‹¥ª, Á¡‚ Ã⁄U„U ∑§Ë ‚„U◊Áà ’Ÿ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, Á»§⁄U „U◊ ÷Ë ß‚ ¬⁄U •¬Ÿ ÁfløÊ⁄U Œ¥, ¡Ò‚Ê fl◊ʸ ¡Ë Ÿ ÷Ë •÷Ë ∑§„UÊ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ÄÿÊ ‚¢‚Œ ∑§Ë ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë •„UÁ◊ÿà ¬⁄U ÷Ë ¬˝‡ÔŸ Áøã„U ÃÙ Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ª ⁄U„UÊ Á∑§ „U◊ ‚Ëœ-‚Ëœ ß‚ ’Ê„U⁄U Õ˝Ù ∑§⁄U Œ¥– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‚Ê⁄‘U ‚Êˇÿ ◊ı¡ÍŒ „Ò¥U, flËÁ«UÿÙ ‚Ë«UË „ÒU, ∑Ò§‚≈UÔ˜‚ „Ò¥U, flËÁ«UÿÙ »È§≈U¡ •ÊÁŒ øË¡¥ „Ò¥U– ©U‚∑§ •‹ÊflÊ •ı⁄U ‚àÿÃÊ ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ ¡Ù ªflÊÁ„UÿÊ¢ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ „ÈUßZ, ©UŸ∑§Ë ’ÊÃÙ¥ ∑§Ë ‚ëÔøÊ߸ ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ •ı⁄U ∑§Ù߸ Ã∑§ŸË∑§Ë ‚„UÊÿÃÊ „U◊ ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ÿÊ •ãÿ ∞¡¥‚Ë ∑§Ë „U◊ ◊ŒŒ ‹ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U, ÿ„U Á’¢ŒÈ ‚Á◊Áà ◊¥ ⁄UπÃ „Ò¥U, ÃÙ ©Uã„¥U ‹Ÿ ∑§Ë ∑§ÙÁ‡Ê‡Ê ∑§⁄UŸË øÊÁ„U∞– ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ë ¡Ù •„UÁ◊ÿà „ÒU, ∞‚Ê Ÿ „UÙ Á∑§ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ‚Á◊Áà •¬ŸË Á¡êÔ◊ŒÊ⁄UË ∑§Ù, ß‚ ‚Ê⁄‘U ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ù ¬ÙS≈U •ÊÁ»§‚ ∑§Ë Ã⁄U„U Õ˝Ù ∑§⁄U Œ •ı⁄U ß‚ ◊Ê◊‹ ∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§Ù߸ •ãÿ ©UëÔø-SÃ⁄UËÿ ¡Ê¢ø ∞¡¥‚Ë ∑§⁄‘U– ∆UË∑§ „ÒU Á∑§ fl„U ߢflÒS≈U˪‡ÊŸ ∞¡¥‚Ë ’„ÈUà ‹Ù∑§Á¬˝ÿ „ÒU, ‚Ë’Ë•Ê߸ ’„ÈUà ‹Ù∑§Á¬˝ÿ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ‚¢‚Œ ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ∑§Ù߸ ‹Ù∑§Á¬˝ÿ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– fl„U ‚àÿÃÊ ∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹ªÊ∞, ◊⁄UÊ ∞‚Ê ◊ÊŸŸÊ „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ÿ„UË ‡ÊÈM§

316 ◊¥ ÷Ë ∑§„UÊ ÕÊ, •Ê¬ øÊ„¥U ÃÙ ¬˝Ù‚ËÁ«¢UÇ‚ ©U∆UÊ∑§⁄U Œπ ‹¥– •÷Ë „U◊ «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ¬⁄U ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U Á∑§ ÄÿÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞ •ı⁄U •Ê¡ ß‚ ∞«UÊåÔ≈ U∑§⁄UŸÊ ÕÊ– ∞∑§ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ©U¬ÁSÕà Ÿ„UË¥ „Ò¥U, ¡’Á∑§ ©Uã„UË¥ ∑§ •Êª˝„U ¬⁄U { ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÿ„U ’Ò∆U∑§ ⁄UπË ªß¸ ÕË– „U◊Ê⁄‘U ÿ„UÊ¢ ¬˝‹ÿ¢∑§Ê⁄UË ’Ê…∏U •Ê߸ „ÈU߸ „ÒU– „U◊ fl„UÊ¢ ⁄UÊ„Uà ∑§ÊÿÙZ ◊¥ ‹ª „ÈU∞ „Ò¥U •ı⁄U ◊ÈÁ‡Ô∑§‹ ‚ ‚◊ÿ ÁŸ∑§Ê‹ ∑§⁄U ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê∞ „Ò¥U– ‚’ ◊ÊŸŸËÿ ‚ŒSÿ ß‚ Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ∑§Ê •äÿÿŸ ∑§⁄‘¥U •ı⁄U Á»§⁄U •¬Ÿ ÁfløÊ⁄U ÿÊ ⁄UÊÿ Œ¥, ©U‚∑§ ’ÊŒ ©UŸ ¬⁄U ª„UŸ M§¬ ‚ ÁfløÊ⁄U ∑§⁄U∑§ ÁŸáʸÿ Á‹ÿÊ ¡Ê∞ Á∑§ ÄÿÊ Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ◊¥ ß‚∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ◊Ò‚¡ ¡Ê∞ªÊ– „U◊ ‚¢‚ŒËÿ ∑§ûʸ√ÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ¡Ù „U◊Ê⁄UË «˜UÔÿÍ≈UË „ÒU ©U‚∑§Ê „U◊ ¬Í⁄UË Ã⁄U„ U¬Ê‹Ÿ ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ß‚ ¬⁄U ÷Ë ‚ÙøÊ ¡Ê∞– ◊Ò¥ Áfl·ÿ ¬⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ¡ÊŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ, ‹Á∑§Ÿ ◊⁄UÊ ∞∑§ ŸËÁêà ◊Ê◊‹Ê „ÒU– •ª⁄U ÿ„U ¬⁄Uê¬⁄UÊ ‡ÊÈM§ „UÙ ªß¸ Á∑§ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§Ù Á∑§‚Ë Áfl·ÿ ∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ∑§⁄UŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ S¬Ë∑§⁄U ‚Ê„U’ ‚ •ÊŒ‡Ê Á◊‹, •ı⁄U „U◊ •¬Ÿ ∑§ûʸ√ÿÙ¥ ∑§Ë ßÁÃüÊË ∑§⁄U∑§, •Êª Á∑§‚Ë •ãÿ ∞¡¥‚Ë ∑§Ù fl„U ‚ȬȌ¸ ∑§⁄U Œ¥ ÃÙ fl„U ÄÿÊ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU ÿÊ Ÿ„UË¥, ß‚ ¬⁄U ÁfløÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– „U◊ ¡ÊŸÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ •äÿˇÊ ¡Ë ∑§Ù Ã∑§ŸË∑§Ë ¡Ê¢ø ◊¥ ∑§Á∆UŸÊ߸ „UÙ ⁄U„UË „ÒU, ÄU Ã∑§ ¡ÊŸ ◊¥, •ı⁄U Á»§⁄U ‚◊ÿ ∑§Ê ÷Ë •÷Êfl „ÒU– ÿ„ U’Êà ÷Ë ‚àÿ „ÒU Á∑§ ∑§◊≈UË ∑§ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‹Ùª ‚ø Ÿ„UË¥ ’Ù‹ ⁄U„U „Ò¥U, ¡’Á∑§ ÿ„UÊ¢ •ÙÕ ‹∑§⁄U ∑§„UÃ „Ò¥U Á∑§ „U◊ ¡Ù ∑§„¥Uª fl„U ‚ø ∑§„¥Uª– ©UŸ ‚ëÔøÊßÿÙ¥ ∑§Ù …ÍU…∏UŸ ∑§Ê ÄÿÊ ∑§Ù߸ ©U¬Êÿ „UÙ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU, ©U‚ ¬⁄U ªê÷Ë⁄UÃÊ ‚ ÁfløÊ⁄U Á∑§ÿÊ ¡Ê∞– ß‚Á‹∞ ‚„UË ‚Êˇÿ ‚Ê◊Ÿ ‹ÊŸ ∑§Ê ∑§Ê◊ ÿÁŒ ÿ„U ‚Á◊Áà ∑§⁄UÃË „ÒU ÃÙ „U◊ ‚¢‚Œ ∑§Ù •ı⁄U ß‚ ‚Á◊Áà ∑§Ù ÷Ë ∞∑§ ™¢§øÊ߸ Œ¥ª– „U◊¥ ’„ÈUà ’«∏UË Á¡êÔ◊ŒÊ⁄UË Á◊‹Ë „ÒU– ŒÈÁŸÿÊ ∑§ ∑§⁄UÙ«∏UÙ¥ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ë Ÿ¡⁄‘¥U „U◊ ¬⁄ U‹ªË „ÈU߸ „Ò¥U– ◊Ò¥Ÿ •÷Ë «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ŒπË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU ß‚Á‹∞, ◊Ò¥ ÿ„UË ∑§„UŸÊ øÊ„Í¢UªÊ Á∑§ Áfl·ÿ ◊¥ ¡ÊŸ ∑§Ë ∑§Ù߸ ’Êà „UË Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, I have heard each one of you. I would again like to mention that we are not an investigating authority or we are not a policing body. We are restricted to our parliamentary work. In fact, no such Committee of Parliament is there to handle such a situation. Therefore, this Committee was set up by the hon. Speaker in consultation with all the leaders, as this was a new situation, which arose. Different kinds of allegations were coming, and the hon. Speaker, in consultation with leaders, to restore the credibility of the Parliament created this new mechanism, to deal with such cases, which were not there earlier on. As far as the parliamentary privileges are concerned, privileges have been well-established. I think, we ourselves have set our own conventions in the last 50 years; and if there is a breach of privilege, as far as the Parliament is concerned, appropriate notice has to be given... I also cannot entertain that. That has to go to the hon. Speaker. The hon. Speaker will have to refer it to my Committee, and then surely, we will take up that matter. But as far as this issue is concerned, there were some Members, who suggested narco analysis test. I gave you a report of narco analysis test. Today, I have got with us, yet another report, Malhotraji. This is by NIMHANS (National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Science) of Bangalore. They have set up a Committee with respect to narco analysis. The Director and Vice Chancellor of NIMHANS have been kind enough to send me a copy of that report. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Please circulate it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Certainly, I will circulate it. Officers, please circulate it among all the Members. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: It is because in the newspapers today, there is a news-item that a Judge has accepted the report on the narco analysis. MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, Judges can do anything these days. Tomorrow, Judges can say what you have said has been thrown into the bins. So, let us not read upon each other’s thing.

317 But this is a report, which has been given by a premier institution of our country. Our officers would circulate that report also to all the hon. Members of the Committee. so, I have expressed my reservations about the narco-analysis test. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∑§ıŸ‚Ë ‚¢SÕÊ „ÒU? •Ê¬ Á∑§‚ ‚¢SÕÊ ∑§ ’Ê⁄‘U ◊¥ ’Êà ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U „Ò¥U?

MR. CHAIRMAN: NIMHANS, Bangalore have set up a committee, which has done an elaborate research and given a report against brain mapping and narco analysis. As I have told you earlier, certainly, it would be a very, very retrograde move and a bad precedent for a Parliamentary Committee to go into this kind of a thing because it is an invasive kind of thing that you do; you inject chemicals into human beings. There are moral and ethical values, which come in the way of somebody doing this. So, certainly, I would not have liked narco analysis to be applied to any witness by us. If some other agency does it, it is a different matter altogether. The hon. Member and our colleague, Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav would appreciate the fact that we cannot also apply a third-degree method to anybody. I cannot tell my Secretary-General to lock up some witness and beat him up in the side rooms. This is something, which the police and others can do; and whether it is legal or illegal, it is a different question. But certainly, we cannot do that kind of a thing. So, for a person, who comes here, we have to go by whatever he says. If we do not believe or have any doubts about what he says, then there are other agencies and appropriate authorities to look into that matter. We have cross-examined them and analysed the witnesses. We can read in between those lines, interpret as we think proper, and ultimately, it will be for the hon. Members and the House to decide what is to be done. But beyond that, in my opinion, we cannot force somebody to say something or not to say something. I have a feeling that we have got enough and more evidence. Secondly, Malhotraji, you would appreciate that when we examine a witnesses, the convention has been that the witness also has to have a certain status and standard. But because of the sensitivity of this particular case, I have agree to call anybody, who the Members wanted to be called here. We called Sohail. We all saw the manner in which he behaved and acted in front of the Committee. But yet, it was all right. Now, as far as the other driver was concerned, it was an after thought-after two meetings—since the hon. Members wanted-even then, I said yes. But Malhotraji, if somebody kidnaps him or somebody takes him away, it is not a case for me to go after that. They can lodge a police complaint. It is for the police to deal as to whoever people are involved. The courts would decide what is to be done. I cannot go and apprehend somebody for kidnapping or not kidnapping or going from here and there. We gave a notice, we waited. Somebody failed to appear. I think, we have got enough material with us, based on which we have come to this stage. But anyway now, since all the hon. Members have requested for more time, and majority of the Members have said that they have not yet gone through the Draft Report, certainly, I would not like to adopt a Report, which has not yet even been read by my hon. colleagues. So, let us fix a date, Malhotraji. But let it not be an open-ended thing. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Well, at that time, we will give our views of assent or dissent or whatever is to be given. MR. CHAIRMAN: You can give your additional note or dissent or whatever you want. I am not stopping anybody. That has been the convention of Parliament.

318 So, shall we fix 15th October as the date of our next meeting? PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: It may be fixed for 16th. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— vz-v{ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊Ò¥ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë ◊¢ Ÿ„UË¥ ⁄U„Í¢UªÊ– ◊Ò¥ v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÿ„UÊ¢ •Ê™¢§ªÊ– •Ê¬ v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª ⁄Uπ ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U–

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is the whole problem. Last time, one hon. Member said that he would come but he did not come.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Sir, I would not be able to come from 13th to 15th. v{ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞ ÃÙ •ë¿UÊ ⁄U„UªÊ– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ¡Ò‚Ê ◊Ò¥Ÿ ∑§„UÊ Á∑§ ◊Ò¥ v{ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÁŒÀ‹Ë ◊¥ Ÿ„UË¥ „Í¢U, v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ‚È’„U vÆ.yz ’¡ •Ê ⁄U„UÊ „Í¢U, ß‚Á‹∞ ◊⁄UË Ã⁄U»§ ‚ v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∆UË∑§ ⁄U„UªË–

MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotraji, the House is meeting on the 17th. I think, most probably, the House would adjourn because a sitting Member has passed away. After that we may have our sitting at 12 noon.

¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ⁄Uπ ‹ËÁ¡∞ªÊ at 1200 hours.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Secretary-General is saying that there is a Leaders’ meeting by the hon. Speaker at 12 noon. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU, v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù ÃËŸ ’¡ ∆UË∑§ ⁄U„UªÊ– ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— v| ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù øÊ⁄U ’¡ ∑§⁄U ‹ËÁ¡∞ªÊ–

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, we will have our next sitting on 17th October, at 4 o’clock. Ram Gopalji and Rajeshji, would it be all right? PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: It is all right. SHRI RAJESH VERMA: Okay, Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, hon. Members, we would meet again on 17th October at 4 p.m. SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: About the quantum of punishment etc., I agree with you that it is not within our powers. At least, we can ask for our opinion. MR. CHAIRMAN: As far as the Members are concerned, it is a different issue, Kuppusamigaru. It is a breach of privilege. If that is occurred, a separate notice will have to go with that. This Committee is not seized with breach of privilege; I mean, they have to follow some basic procedures. It is a Fact Finding Committee. So, if and when that comes, if there is a breach of privilege, then the Privileges Committee has to recommend some punishment. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: So, we are meeting on 17th and 4 o’clock. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we will meet again on 17th at 4 o’clock. Thank you very much. The meeting is over. (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

319 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 17 October, 2008 MR. CHAIRMAN: I welcome you to this meeting of ours. As decided in the last meeting, I had circulated a draft Report to all the Members. But today, I have got additional points, representation made by Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav and also by Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra. Malhotra ji has given quite a detailed note which is para-wise. It is well-studied, and he has given suggestions for every paragraph of my Report. In any case, Malhotraji had requested that some time be given and so did Salim Sahib. So, I think I will go through these two representations which I have got the one by Malhotra ji and the other by Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav. After going though that in detail, I will see if something of that has to be further incorporated into this report, any changes will have to be made because I will have to compare both these things. If the Committee authorises me, I will, based on that, prepare a final revised Draft Report which I will circulate by Monday to all the Members. I think, we have met long enough and whatever we have had to record, we have already recorded; we have got all the representations. But since two hon. Members of the Committee have sent this thing today, I think, I am morally bound to go through this and verify once with the report which has already been prepared. So, I think, we can circulate final Draft Report by Monday evening. On Monday, there is Parliament Session also. The only thing is now we have to decide when we are sitting, when we will meet again. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: I would request you to meet after Diwali. MR. CHAIRMAN: Malhotra ji, you requested me after Diwali; tentative date we had fixed for 30th. But my only apprehension is, if there is no Parliament after 24th. •ª⁄U •Ê¬ ‹Ùª ÃË‚ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∑§Ù •Ê ‚∑§Ã „Ò¥U ÃÙ ◊ȤÊ ∑§Ù߸ ¬˝ÊÚé‹◊ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ÃË‚ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ∆UË∑§ „ÒU–

‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U Á‚Á≈¢Uª „UÙ ÿÊ Ÿ „UÙ, the Committee will meet on the 30th. Okay?

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Okay. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù •Õ⁄UÊß¡ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU, •Ê¬ ß‚∑§Ê •¢ÁÃ◊ ¬˝ÊM§¬ ’ŸÊ ‹ËÁ¡∞–

MR. CHAIRMAN: If necessary, we would make changes also. In the meantime, if any hon. Member has got any other suggestion to make, he is most welcome. I am prepared to go through everything with an open mind. Then, on the 30th we will finalise it. Malhotraji, what time should we meet on 30th? PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: At 11.30. ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— •ª⁄U ¬ÊÁ‹¸ÿÊ◊¥≈U Á‚Á≈¢Uª „UÙªË ÃÙ vv.xÆ ’¡ ∑§⁄‘¥Uª, •ª⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ „UÙªË ÃÙ x.xÆ ’¡ ∑§⁄‘¥U? üÊË Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊ÀÔ„UÙòÊÊ— x.xÆ ’¡ ∑§ ’¡Ê∞ øÊ⁄U ’¡ ⁄UπŸÊ ∆UË∑§ „U٪ʖ

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is what I said. If Session is on that day, the meeting will be held at 4 pm otherwise, it will be at 1130 hours. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Thank you.

323 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MD. SALIM: One is this extension thing. The second one is that the next meeting will be on 30th October. I will try to come on 30th. Secondly, in the last meeting held on 25th, we decided amongst ourselves something, but that fellow, who was supposed to come to tender his evidence, Shri Hashmat Ali, did not turn up. Later on, we found in the newspapers contradictory reports also. Irrespectively of whether he was kidnapped or not, he ended up at Shri Amar Singh’s place. Police had also not given much credibility to that story of his black-mailing or kidnapping either way. Both the charges are there. But our point is that when Parliament asked him to come and he could not come and allegedly, the person through whom we contacted, he said that he was kidnapped. That day also, I raised this voice and today also I am telling. Once it is extended, why do we not try to bring him and take his evidence? He is a crucial link. I read the draft report, not the revised report. There, I found that radio clipping is not clear whether these two MPs were there or not. Then, inside Shri Amar Singh’s place, there was no recording as per CNN-IBN version. Shri Suhail Hindustani was seen there and that Euroset is not located. So, the only link who could be located is the driver. I think, his evidence would have been handy because when either he himself or someone else was interested to prevent him from coming to this Committee, we should not be so helpless that we cannot bring him. He should be summoned. Now, his address is available. He can be brought in. If he says that he was prevented to come, he should be given another chance. That is my point. ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ‚Í„ÒU‹ Á„¢UŒÈSÃÊŸË ÿ„U ÷Ë Ÿ„UË¥ ’ÃÊÃÊ „ÒU Á∑§ ©U‚∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ÄÿÊ „ÒU, ©U‚∑§ ¡Á⁄Uÿ „UË ‚ÍøŸÊ ŒË ¡ÊÃË „ÒU– fl„U ∑§Ù߸ ߢÁ«U¬«¥U≈U Áfl≈UŸÒ‚ Ÿ„UË¥ ◊ÊŸÊ ¡Ê ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU– ©U‚∑§ •ÊŸ-Ÿ-•ÊŸ ‚ ∑§Ù߸ »§∑¸§ Ÿ„UË¥ ¬«∏UÃÊ „ÒU– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ‚Í„ÒU‹ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ÿÁŒ ∑ȧ¿U ’ÃÊ ‚∑§ÃÊ „ÒU ÃÙ ©U‚Ë ‚ ¬Í¿UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ©U‚∑§ Á’„UÊ»§ ¬⁄U fl„U „UË ‚’ ’ÃÊ ⁄U„UÊ „ÒU–

◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ©U‚∑§Ê ¬ÃÊ ‹Ù∑§ ‚÷Ê ‚ÁøflÊ‹ÿ ∑§ ¬Ê‚ ÷Ë „ÒU, ◊⁄‘U ¬Ê‚ ÷Ë „ÒU– Now, when he could not come or he did not come or he was not allowed to come, he has written a letter. There, I could find out that he had written earlier a letter addressed to the hon. Speaker in August, giving his account, but this was not circulated. It is not that his address was not there or he was not in touch with the Secretariat or the Committee. There, he has given one address of his office, of his organisation he is a member of. That address is there in the first para of the letter, in the complaint itself. That letter should have been circulated before he comes because that was addressed to the Speaker. MR. CHAIRMAN: There is no letter of August. MD. SALIM: But we have got the copy. He has sent us the copy. ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— „U◊ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù fl„ U∑§ÊÚ¬Ë Ÿ„UË¥ Á◊‹Ë „ÒU, •Ê¬ ‹ÙªÙ¥ ∑§Ù ÷¡Ë „U٪˖

MD. SALIM: This is the missing link. MR. CHAIRMAN: No letter from the Speaker’s office has reached me. MD. SALIM: It is very unfortunate then. I have brought my copy with me, and I can show it to you.

324 PROF. RAM GOPAL YADAV: Anyway, he is not a reliable witness. MD. SALIM: I am not certifying his reliability, but I am questioning his availability. This is very unfortunate. We are talking about reliability of a person in a Parliamentary Committee before examining him. Actually, his availability is being questioned, and I am questioning it. He has given two complaint letters including one to the Police. Now, I have some reliability on him. fl„U ÃÙ Á¿U¬Ê Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU– ‹Ò≈U⁄U wy.~.wÆÆ} ∑§Ê „ÒU– v~.}.wÆÆ} ∑§Ù ‚¢‚Œ ◊¥ •ÊÿÊ „ÒU– ÿ„U ∑§◊≈UË ◊¥ ÄÿÙ¥ Ÿ„UË¥ •ÊÿÊ? This letter is addressed to the hon. Speaker, Lok Sabha, New Delhi. I do not have a copy, but this is the letter. MR. CHAIRMAN: We have not got the letter of 19 August. MD. SALIM: I have got this. He has enclosed this letter with the first letter to the hon. Speaker on 25 September where he has mentioned that he was prevented to come. MR. CHAIRMAN: This was a letter to the hon. Speaker. He has signed and written and put this date, but whether he has post-dated it or not is now known. MD. SALIM: No, I am only saying that this copy is available, and his address is mentioned there. Therefore, it is not that the address is not there. MR. CHAIRMAN: We do not know whether it has reached that address. MD. SALIM: How can I find out about it? The Secretariat can find it out. MR. CHAIRMAN: Every letter that has been addressed to the Speaker on this matter has been forwarded to us, and every letter and every communication has been circulated among all the Members. I do not know as to from where it has come.

◊Ù„UêÔ◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— ß‚◊¥ ÿ„U ÷Ë Á‹πÊ „ÒU—üÊË Á∑§‡ÊÙ⁄U øãº˝ Œfl ∑§ Á‹∞ ¬˝ÁÖ

MR. CHAIRMAN: All the letters that have come to my house, I have sent everything and circulated everything. MD. SALIM: I cannot certify as to on which date he has signed it. But the address is there in it. This is all that I am trying to say here. MR. CHAIRMAN: It is all right. I would like to respond to all that Shri Salim said here. First of all, it is not my concern whether he has been kidnapped or blackmailed, etc. Further, I presume that it does not the concern of the Committee also as it is an external matter. Let the appropriate authority look into this matter, and let him give a written complaint to the appropriate authority. As far as Mr. Hashmat Ali’s evidence is concerned, firstly, we had no address of him. We did not have his contacts, and it was only through Mr. Sohail Hindustani that we contacted him. It was Mr. Sohail Hindustani who promised my Secretariat that he will ensure Mr. Hashmat Ali’s presence before the Committee on that particular day. He got a letter also. Now, whether he was kidnapped or somebody was into blackmailing is not my concern. But when he failed to appear before the Committee, Mr. Sohail Hindustani at least could have informed us. He knew that the Committee was meeting at 11 o’clock. Even if he was not there, the man who has assured us that he will come before us has not come before the Parliamentary Committee. Secondly, I would like to very humbly submit that the decision to call Mr. Hashmat Ali was an afterthought, which came after two subsequent meetings, that is, after we had actually

325 finished all the evidence that we had to take and record. But even then since it is a sensitive matter and since the hon. Members wanted, so I agree and I said that if we can locate him, then let us call him. Now we have got his letters. There is a question mark on his reliability, which has been raised by some members. I do not want to comment on whether he is reliable or unreliable. I personally feel that his evidence is not going to make any material difference to the report. There are many other questions and gaps also. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— ß‚◊¥ ◊ÒÁ≈UÁ⁄Uÿ‹ Á«U»§⁄‘¥U‚ „UÙ ÿÊ Ÿ „UÙ ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡’ Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË Ÿ ©U‚ ‚◊ÍøË ÉÊ≈UŸÊ ∑§Ê ’ÿÊŸ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU •ı⁄U ©U‚ ¬Ê≈U˸ ∑§Ê ∞∑§ „UË •ÊŒ◊Ë „ÒU Á¡‚‚ ∑§Á◊≈U◊¥≈U „ÒU, ◊Ò¥ ß‚◊¥ ∞∑§ ’Êà ¡ÊŸŸÊ øÊ„UÃÊ „Í¢U Á∑§ ÄÿÊ ∞Áfl«¥U‚ ∑§ Á‚‹Á‚‹ ◊¥ ߟ∑§Ë •‹ª ‚ ∑§Ù߸ ⁄UÊÿ •Ê߸ „ÒU? •Ê¬ Á∑§«UŸÒ¬ ∑§Ë ’Êà ∑§Ù ¿UÙÁ«∏Uÿ, ÿ„U ŒÍ‚⁄UË øË¡ „ÒU ‹Á∑§Ÿ ¡Ù Áø≈UÔ˜∆UË Á‹πË ªß¸ „ÒU fl„U Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ‚ Á«U»§⁄U ∑§⁄UÃË „ÒU– ÄÿÊ ÿ„U ©U‚‚ •‹ª „ÒU? ‚÷ʬÁà ◊„UÙŒÿ— ¡Ë, „UÊ¢– üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— Á„UãŒÈSÃÊŸË ‚ Á«U»§⁄‘¥UÁ‚‚ Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU Ã’ ©UŸ∑§Ê ¡ÁS≈UÁ»§∑§‡ÊŸ ÄÿÊ „ÒU?

MR. CHAIRMAN: That has not come. Secondly, actually when we are going into a matter like this, who is to assure me or guarantee me that he was the person on that day driving the car? None of us recognises Hashmat Ali. We do not know whether he was driving that car on that day. These are other questions, deeper questions, which will have to be ultimately investigated into. I think now we have also actually gone quite ahead. We have gone through quite a bit as afar as this is concerned. Making an attempt to calling him, recording his evidence will again mean further postponing this entire exercise. I personally feel that whatever material we have is enough. What we can do based on this we will write. If any member has any objection, he can always forward his views. After that, whichever authority takes up the matter can go into further details. MD. SALIM: Sorry for repetition but I have three-four specific points to make for which we have to find answers. I did not certify or verify but what I said was that when the occupants of the car which entered into Amar Singh’s place on 22nd morning were not visible and we could see that in the front seat the driver was there and Sohail was there. It is all recorded. Secondly, as far as my knowledge goes, I checked it up also, it is a self-owned car. So, he is not a driver. He is the owner of the car also. In the video recording and in the documents we have found the car number. So, it is very easy to find out as to whom the car belongs to, who drove it on that day, and then who were the occupants of the car at that time. We have two find the truth. That is why this question is not tenable whether it would be the same person or not. Thirdly, within the Committee also members were reluctant to call the driver to the Committee. Outside also some people were interested in seeing that he should does come before the Committee. My third question was why did we depend on Sohail Hindustani? Why did we not get directly in touch with him? The answer given for that was that we did not have his address. However, on 19th of August Hashmat addressed a letter, a copy of which I am producing here, in which he gave his address. It may have been received or may not have been received, I cannot certify that. But his address is there. It says, Hashmat Ali, KH-423, Gaon Mandoli, Delhi-93. That is why on 25th also I questioned as to why cannot we directly ask the witness to come before us. There are so many things with us but we did not respond. We depended on Sohail Hindustani. Even now we have the address with us. Where has this letter gone? I she lying? Did he not forward

326 the letter but just sent the copy? Did the letter go missing in transition? I trust the Chairman and the Committee Secretariat that we have not received a copy of this letter. But once the copy is there and he himself wanted to say something, he should be asked to come before the Committee. That is why I said this. Now, I have got the copy. That day I said he was ready to come. Now he is still ready to come. He was the person who received the indirect invitation for 25th when he could not come but he went to the police and lodged a complaint. That is an outside thing. That means he was interested to come. The fourth point is, he said that he was interested to come in the afternoon. When the meeting was preponed, this information was not given to him saying that he should come at 11 or 11.30 a.m. That is what he is saying because no amended letter was given. So, there are many loopholes. On the one hand some people outside the jurisdiction of the Committee are interested to prevent him from coming before the Committee. Within the Committee also there is resistance to it on the ground that we should not enlarge this. Then there is a gap between his information and the Committee Secretariat’s information, or Chairman’s information. So, I have a big doubt in my mind and I want to make it clear. I am not trusting him or not trusting anybody else. What I am saying is that the person’s address is available. But then let it be put on record that we are reluctant to receive his evidence. MR. CHAIRMAN: As I clearly mentioned earlier, first of all the identity of the driver is a big question mark. Secondly, even if he was the driver, it was in the same car that Sohail Hindustani went. They are all giving evidence on behalf of one particular group which was operating this whistle blowing operation. So, I do no think there could be any material difference between what Sohail Hindustani has already said and what this man could, even if he was the actual driver sitting in that particular seat. Therefore, I do not think that it is relevant at this stage to call him again. You may make your observations. You can put it in writing. MD. SALIM: I will write also. MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure, there is no problem. The next thing is, we will have to ask for extension of time. I think we will, if everyone agrees, ask for extension of time up to the 15th of November. If it is ready earlier, we can submit the report even earlier. This is going to be the last extension. I do not intend asking for any further extension. üÊË Œflãº˝ ¬˝‚ÊŒ ÿÊŒfl— •ª‹Ë ◊ËÁ≈¢Uª xÆ ÃÊ⁄UËπ ◊¥ „ÒU– «˛UÊçÔ≈U Á⁄U¬Ù≈¸U ⁄UË∑¢§‚Ë«˛U‡ÊŸ ∑§ Á‹∞ „U◊Ÿ •Ê¬∑§Ù •ÕÙ⁄UÊß¡ ∑§⁄U ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU–

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will again send the final draft. So, the next meeting is on 30th. If Parliament is in session, it will meet at 4 pm. If Parliament is not in session it will meet at 11.30 am. We have agreed that we shall ask for extension up to 15th November. The 30th, hopefully, will be the final day for going through the draft. The meeting is over. (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

327 Verbatim proceedings of the sitting of the Committee to inquire into complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on motion of confidence, held on 30 October, 2008 MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members and distinguished colleagues, I welcome you all to this meeting of us. The final Draft Report has been circulated and all of you must have received it. I think, we have had enough number of sittings and discussed the matter in detail. After going through the Report, I would like to invite the views of the hon. Members in this regard. ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ— „U◊ •Ê¬‚ Á⁄U∑§flÒS≈U ∑§⁄U ⁄U„U Õ Á∑§ ß‚ »§Êߟ‹ ∑§⁄UŸÊ øÊÁ„U∞– ÖÿÊŒÊ ◊ËÁ≈¢UÇ‚ ’È‹ÊŸ ∑§Ë ¡M§⁄Uà Ÿ„UË¥ „ÒU, ‹Á∑§Ÿ „U◊ •¬ŸÊ Á«US‚Ò¥≈U ŸÙ≈U ŒŸÊ øÊ„UÃ „Ò¥U– ©U‚∑§Ê ∞∑§ ≈UÊß◊ Á»§Ä‚ ∑§⁄U ŒËÁ¡∞, Á¡‚‚ ©U‚ ÁŒŸ Ã∑§ „U◊ •¬ŸÊ Á«US‚Ò¥≈U ŸÙ≈U Œ Œ¥– ◊Ù„Uê◊Œ ‚‹Ë◊— Á⁄UÁfl¡Ÿ ≈ÒUÄS≈U ◊¥ „ÈU•Ê „ÒU– Á⁄UÁfl¡Ÿ Œπ ∑§⁄U Ÿ„UË¥ ‹ªÊ Á∑§ fl„U ’„ÈUà ÂÀ‹Ë’Å‡Ê „ÒU– ◊Ò¥Ÿ ’Ò∑§ª˝Ê©Uã«U ŸÙ≈U ÷Ë ¬…∏UÊ „ÒU—¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ •ÊÒ⁄U ¬˝Ù. Áfl¡ÿ ∑ȧ◊Ê⁄U ◊À„UÙòÊÊ Ÿ ÁŒÿÊ „ÒU– It was circulated last time. There was some revision in the revised text. The Secretariat should have indicated it. Two paragraphs have been added and it was difficult for me to find out those two paragraphs. Normally, the Secretariat helps us in showing that this was the improvement as compared to the earlier one. However, I have gone through it. I am afraid that a unanimous decision can be taken. The Chair tried and we all tried for it. But I have also to give a note of dissent, not in a huge bulky manner but I have to write at least three to four paragraphs. MR. CHAIRMAN: There is absolutely no problem. Shri Kuppusami, I would like to have your views now. SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: You have given the date as 5th November. MR. CHAIRMAN: We have not decided about it but this will be the final meeting. But Prof. Malhotra and Md. Salim wanted some time to give their dissenting note or an additional note or whatever which I will append with this Report. We will now decide a reasonable date for them. MD. SALIM: Will it be an additional note? MR. CHAIRMAN: It can be an additional one or a dissent note or whatever. There is no problem about it. SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI: We can adopt the Report. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we will adopt it subject to the dissent note to be given. MD. SALIM: I suppose we are not discussing the note of dissent because derogatory and all those things are there. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, we are not discussing it and you know that. What do you think, Professor Yadav? ¬˝Ù. ⁄UÊ◊ ªÙ¬Ê‹ ÿÊŒfl— ∆UË∑§ „ÒU– MR. CHAIRMAN: So, I take it that the Report is adopted subject to the condition that the notes of dissent to be given by the hon. Members will be appended to it. What date would you like to fix now? MD. SALIM: In this Report, we are giving those annexures also.

331 MR. CHAIRMAN: I will come to that. Let us first fix the date. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: I have one thing to say. I would request you that this Report should not be leaked out. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have always been making that plea. Persistently and consistently, I have been making that plea. I would again make that plea and request you all for your cooperation that the Report should not be leaked out. Now what will be the suitable and reasonable date for you? MD. SALIM: Technically, we have adopted the Report but this is not the full and final Report because the notes of dissent will have to come. MR. CHAIRMAN: It should be looked at in its totality and not in part. I fully agree with you. Now, which is the suitable date and how many days would you like to have to submit your note of dissent? MD. SALIM: When are you going to submit this Report to the Chair? MR. CHAIRMAN: This Report will go to the hon. Speaker. Today is only 30th October, 2008. Normally, the time given is 24 or 48 hours. But I am prepared to give more time because Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra wanted more time. Shall we fix 5th November as the last date? MD. SALIM: Let it be 6th November, because I am coming on 5th night. MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. We do not need to have a meeting for his. Let us fix 6th November. So, whatever is received from the hon. Members by 5 p.m. on 6th November will become part of this Report. In the meantime I would like to mention a few things. I would like to direct the Secretariat to append along with this Report all annexures, letters, points, transcripts, everything that has come, including the verbatim proceedings of the meetings that have taken place over here, because transparency is what we all wanted. The people of the country should know what has happened. I would like to mention that the Secretariat has been very efficient in assisting me. But let me mention that I shall take full responsibility for everything that is there in this Report. I have been personally going through this, dictating them and telling them. I thank the Secretariat and everybody else who have been associated with this Committee. I would like to repeat that I take full responsibility as far as the contents, letter and spirit, of this particular Report. On this note, I thank the hon. Members, especially Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra, for making it convenient to come over here and for attending the meetings regularly. With this we will wind up the work of this Committee. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Please do not mention about my resignation. MR. CHAIRMAN: I do not know about it. I read about it in the newspapers. So, as far as I am concerned, your resignation does not exist. I do not know about it. For the laying of the Report, we will put my name and Md. Salim’s name or Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav’s name. (The Committee, then, adjourned.)

332 APPENDICES APPENDIX I (Please see Para 17 of the Report)

To, The Speaker, Lok Sabha New Delhi. Dear Sir, I write this in the context of the fallout of the allegations of horse-trading and the cash for votes controversy that was raised in parliament during the trust vote debate on Tuesday. CNN- IBN for the past week has been carrying out an investigation into allegations of horse-trading based on various leads, allegations that we believed are strongly in the public interest and needed to be investigated. Some of these allegations found mention during the trust vote debate and involved a recording done by our news channel. Since our investigation was an ongoing one and we were still in the process of investigation and verification, we chose not to air the tapes till we had fully completed the process. As you are aware, as responsible news channel, our first priority is to authenticate every information that we obtain before choosing to air it. We are a firecely independent channel that prides itself on a sense of journalistic responsibility above all else and our first responsibility will always be to our viewers. However, since some of the allegations made in the tapes have already found their way into the public domain, we left that it was prudent to hand over the recordings that we have collected so far to the appropriate authority. Since the matter in question involves honourable members of Parliament, we felt that it would be appropriate to hand it over to the Speaker’s Office for any further action. May I add here that we are keeping a copy of the recordings with us and reserve the right to telecast it at any future date. Regards,

Sd/- RAJDEEP SARDESAI (Editor in Chief, CNN-IBN) Wednesday, July 23, 2008 Enclosed: Five: DVC PRO Panasonic Video Tapes

335 APPENDIX II (Please see para 18 of the Report)

New Delhi July 25, 2008 To The Honourable Speaker Lok Sabha New Delhi Subject: Complaint against Shri Rewati Raman Singh, Member of Parliament (Lok Sabha); Shri Amar Singh, General Secretary of the Samajwadi Party; and Shri Ahmed Patel, Political Secretary to the Congress President for attempting to bribe three Members of Parliament (Lok Sabha)—Shri Ashok Argal (Morena, Madhya Pradesh), Shri Mahavir Bhagora (Salumbar, Rajasthan) and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste (Mandla, Madhya Pradesh)—in the ‘Cash-for-Vote’ scandal on July 22,2008 Honourable Sir, 1. You may kindly recall that on July 22, 2008 we had personally met you in your chamber and recounted the scandalus manner in which we were sought to be bribed by leaders of the Congress and the Samajwadi Party to help the UPA Government by refraining from voting against the Confidence Motion. Pursuant to our oral complaint made in your chamber on 22 July, you had promised on the floor of the House to order investigation and to take appropriate action against all those responsible. In response to your letter dated 23 July 2008 received late night, we are hereby giving a written complaint. The detailed facts are as follows: 2. The UPA Government lost its majority on 9 July 2008 when the Left parties withdrew support to it. This led to Respected Rashtrapatiji asking the Prime Minister to seek the trust of the House in a special session of the Lok Sabha on 21-22 July. Even though the Samajwadi Party had pledged its support to the UPA Government on 9 July, it was obvious from the numerical representation of various parties in the House that the UPA Government was in no position to prove its majority without engineering defections from the non-UPA ranks. Leaders of the Congress and the Samajwadi Party started boasting about large- scale defections from non-UPA parties. Some sections of the media even published names of non- UPA MPs who were going to either vote for the Government or abstain from voting. On 14 July, Shri A.B. Bardhan, General Secretary of the Communist Party of India alleged at a public rally in New Delhi that the Congress-led UPA was indulging in horse-trading and mentioned an ongoing rate of Rs. 25 crore per MP. The entire nation was shocked to hear this. On 20 July Shri Amar Singh announced at a press conference in New Delhi that BJP MP, Shri Brij Bhushan Sharan Singh, would support the Government in the trust vote. With Shri Brij Bhushan Sharan Singh by his side at the widely covered press conference, Shri Amar Singh also claimed that more non-UPA MPs would defect soon. “We have opened our first card,” he stated. “When we open our other cards on 22 July, many will be taken aback.”

336 3. Apart from MPs from other non-UPA parties and independent MPs, our names also were being mentioned in the list of “soft targets” and that we were vulnerable. Many power-brokers through their intermediaries contacted us but we did not take their approaches seriously. When we were approached directly, we decided to expose the masterminds of the cash-for-votes racket. 4. We contacted CNN-IBN news channel, which deputed its correspondent Shri Siddharth Gautam to record the whistle-blowing operation and to expose the UPA’s unethical plot to convert its minority Government into majority Government by stooping to any levels. 5. In the first instance, on July 21, one of the intermediaries took us to Meridian Hotel where he said a senior Congress leader would meet us and give us money for abstaining in the trust vote. This meeting, however, did not materialize. 6. Late in the evening on July 21, we received a message from Shri Rewati Raman Singh, a senior leader of the Samajwadi Party and its MP, that he would meet US at the residence of Shri Ashok argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road. He came after midnight. He promised US that our interests would be taken care of and that we should accompany him to meet Shri Amar Singh. He further maintained that we should have a face to face meeting with Shri Amar Singh and that all issues including the amount payable to us would be settled by him. The entire meeting and conversation was recorded by the CNN-IBN team, which had bugged the room with hidden cameras. 7. The next morning, on July 22, two of us-namely, Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste—were taken for the meeting with Shri Amar Singh at his residence at 27 Lodhi Estate, New Delhi, We went in car no. DL-7S-1882, a white Maruti Zen. Our car was followed by CNN- IBN’s car with Shri Siddharth Gautam. Our visit to Shri Amar Singh’s house and back was video recorded by the CNN-IBN reporter. 8. We met Shri Amar Singh at his residence. He boasted that although he had already “managed” the requisite number, still since Shri Rewati Raman Singh had met us and arranged the meeting, the would pay Rs. 3 crore each for abstaining from voting on July 22. We mentioned that we have one more MP willing to abstain. He agreed to pay the same amount to the third MP. Thereafter, he spoke to Shri Ahmed patel on phone and said, “I have three more kamals (Lotuses) here”. He also made us speak to Shri Ahmed Patel, who gave his consent to the arrangement. Shri Amar Singh offered to pay us an initial token amount of Rs. one crore and asked us to carry it with us. We declined, saying it was unsafe with journalists standing outside his house. Shri Amar Singh promised to send the amount with his assistant, Shri Sanjeev Saxena, within 15 minutes. 9. As per Shri Amar Singh’s promise, his assistant, who indeed identified himself as Shri Sanjeev Saxena, arrived at 4, Ferozeshah Road soon after our reaching there. He and his colleague came in a white Gypsy car no. DL-2C-S-8562, which was noted down by our staff. He was led into the same drawing room, which had already been bugged with hidden cameras. Shri Saxena and one more person accompanying him had carried the money in a bag and emptied its contents on a table in front of the chairs on which we were sitting. The amount of Rs. 1 crore was in ten bundles of Rs. 10 lakhs each, most of it in currency notes of Rs. 1000. 10. Shri Saxena asked for the identification of the third MP, whom Shri Ashok Argal introduced as Shri Mahavir Bhagora. Shri Saxena kept trying to connect Shri Amar Singh’s telephone number, which was repeatedly coming busy. Finally, he got all three of us to speak to Shri Amar Singh. After we three spoke to Shri Amar Singh, Shri Saxena gave the money to us on behalf of Shri Amar Singh.

337 This money of Rs. one crore was the initial token amount and the balance of Rs. 8 crore was promised to be paid later. This entire episode was also recorded by the CNN-IBN team. 11. Besides Shri Siddharth Gautam, three more persons from the CNN-IBN team were present in Shri Argal’s house. Also present in the house was one of our Party colleagues. 12. After Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s departure, the CNN-IBN tema rearranged the bundles on the table and captured on camera the serial numbers of the first and the last currency notes in each of the ten bundles. 13. Thereafter, Shri Gautam Siddharth conducted an elaborate interview with us in the same room, with the amount of Rs. 1 crore placed in front of us on the table. The interview was recorded on a regular camera and included a full narration of the entire sequence of two days. Shri Siddharth Gautam then recorded an introduction for a promo to the investigative report which, among other things, said, “For the first time in the history of Indian Parliament, the scandal of horse-trading has been captured on camera by the investigative team of CNN-IBN”. 14. The CNN-IBN team completed their recordings, removed their bugging equipment from the room and left the house of Shri Ashok at around noon on July 22. Before departing, the team assured us that the programme, along with the promo, would be telecast soon. 15. At around 4.30 pm, we walked up to the table of the Secretary-General, in front of the Speaker’s Chair, look out the money from the bags and displayed it before all the Honourable Mebers as tell-tale proof the “cash for votes” scandal. We also wanted to establish before Parliament and the nation the level to which the UPA had stooped to procure a majority which they did not have. In doing so, we were motivated by the diesre to save democracy from pernicious influence of money power. 16. The House was adjourned and we were called to your Chamber. We narrated all the events to your Honourable Self in the presence of leaders of various political parties. The money given by Shri Amar Singh was deposited in your office against receipt. 17. In view of the gravity of the bribery scandal and blatant inducement to Members of Parliament to defy their party whips, illegally help the Government to cobble a majority, and thereby subvert Constitutional and parliamentary norms, we would request you to take prompt and the most stringent action against the wrong-doers to uphold the dignity of democracy. 18. This attempt to subvert the functioning of Parliament by inducements and bribery, especially in a session devoted to the confidence motion, besides being a matter of violation of ethics is also a breach of privilege. We reserve our right to initiate criminal law action in the matter. With kind regards, Yours sincerely Sd/- Ashok Argal (Member of the Lok Sabha from Morena, Madhya Pradesh) Sd/- Mahavir Bhagora (Member of the Lok Sabha from Salumbar, Rajasthan) Sd/- Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste (Member of the Lok Sabha from Mandla, Madhya Pradesh) Date: 25.7.2008

338 APPENDIX III (Please see para 20 of the Report)

New Delhi August 01, 2008 To, The Chairman, The Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence, 147, Parliament House New Delhi. Sir, We had sent a complaint to the Hon’ble Speaker dated July 24, 2008 wherein we have stated that efforts were made to compel us to abstain from voting in the vote of confidence. 2. Since the complaint was sent hurriedly some inadvertent errors had crept in. We wish to correct a typographical error in paragraph 9 on page 4 wherein we had mentioned the number of White Gypsy as DL 2CS 8562 whereas the actual number should read as DL 3CS 8562. 3. Similarly, we had erroneously mentioned the number of White Zen in paragraph 7 on page 3 as DL 7S 1882 whereas the correct number should read as DL 5 CC 7218. This mistake occurred on account of the hurried manner in which the wrong number from the two numbers noted on a note pad was written in the complaint. In fact, the correct number was the other number on the note pad. We are sure that this corrected number will be borne out by the video tapes in your custody. 4. As our colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagora (Salumbar, Rajasthan) is hospitalised, he could not append his signature to this letter. Hence we are bringing this to your notice to ensure that the records are put straight. Thanking you, Sir. Yours sincerely,

Sd/- (Ashok Argal) Member, Lok Sabha (Morena, Madhya Pradesh)

Sd/- (Faggan Singh Kulaste) Member, Lok Sabha (Mandla, Madhya Pradesh)

339 APPENDIX IV (Please see para 21 of the Report)

New Delhi August 03, 2008 To, The Chairman, The Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence 147, Parliament House, New Delhi. Sir, On July 25, 2008 we had submitted to you a detailed representation alleging efforts to use unfair means including bribery to induce us to abstain from voting in the Vote of Confidence debate in the Lok Sabha on 21st and 22nd July, 2008. We had stated that the entire effort was to contact us through Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP to persuade us to meet Shri Amar Singh, General Secretary, Samajwadi Party. After this meeting an initial amount of Rs. One crore was paid to us and the same was recorded by an independent TV channel CNN-IBN. We had expected the channel to telecast the entire expose but unfortunately it has not done so. The channel has now publicly stated that its investigations in the matter were not complete and it was, therefore, unable to telecast the expose. However, it is evident that the channel did not make any effort to either pursue or telecast its investigation for the knowledge and information of the Indian public. In the absence of the channel having performed its public duty, we along with our colleagues have continued to pursue this matter and have several facts to place before you and the enquiry committee. These facts will conclusively establish beyond reasonable doubt the veracity of what we had complained. The entire expose comprises of three stages: (i) The offer as made by Shri Rewati Raman Singh, an MP from Samajwadi Party. (ii) The meeting between the two of us and Shri Amar Singh and the conversation that he facilitated between us and Shri Ahmed Patel on telephone. (iii) The advance amount sent to us by Shri Amar Singh through his associate/assistant, Shri Sanjeev Saxena. We are now placing before you the complete record of each of the above three stages.

Stage I: The Offer We have already mentioned in our complaint that late in the evening of July 21, 2008 we received a message from Shri Rewati Raman Singh, MP that he would meet us at the residence

340 of Shri Ashok Argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road. The living room of Shri Ashok Argal had been bugged and fitted with secret cameras and audio devices by CNN-IBN news channel which had deputed its correspondent Shri Siddharth Gautam along with some other staff members to expose the corruption being practiced in the course of the vote of confidence in the Lok Sabha. Shri Rewati Raman Singh repeatedly induced us to meet Shri Amar Singh. We were also keen to know his real intention. The extracts of our conversation with Shri Rewati Raman Singh, inter alia, include the following relevant sentences as would be evident from the audio and video recording available with you. Rewati Raman Singh: …… Arrey yaar hum hai na chalo toh, hum hai na app chalo toh, hum hai na appka saath. Rewati Raman Singh: Arrey ho gayi na aap chalo toh aapke saamne baat karta hoon ki poori raat yahin hota rahega ki hum baat kartey rahey ki aap jao bat karlo. Hum baat kar chuke hai tabhi toh yahan aaye hai. Mahavir Singh: Nahin our baat thi. Rewati Raman Singh: Kya baat hai batao... Mahavir Singh: Amount ki toh baat nahi huyi hogi... Rewati Raman Singh: Amount ka toh humne baat nahin kiya hai, humne toh baat kiya nahin hai, amount ki toh aapke saamne baat hogi. Aapke saamne baat hogi agar aapko baat karna ho jayegi. Agar aapko karna hoga toh kariyega nahi toh aap aapne ghar jao... amount ka toh... baat karenge hum kaise karle... hum kya jaane aap... Faggan Singh: nahin woh baat nahi hai... Dekhiye baat hone se insaan ko idea ho jaata hai? Rewati Raman Singh: Baat toh har jagah hota hai. aamne saamne baat hotey hai. peeth peechey baat nahi hoti. Agar aapko baat pasand hoga toh theek hai. Isme itni preshani ki kya baat hai. Hum aapke ghar chalkar aaye... Rewati Raman Singh: Isliye toh keh raha hoon Chaliye aamne saamne baat ho jayegi agar aapka hoga tub theek hai nahi toh mat kijiyega. Koi zabardasti thodi na hai. Aap kahoge toh hum abhi bhi taal dengey kyn. Agar aapka pasand hoga toh kariyega nahin toh nahi kariyega baat khatam ho gaya. Aap bhi aapne ghar jao, aur hum bhi jaaye. Nahin aamne saamne baat hogi. Teeno ke satisfaction ke liye saath mein baat hogi, wahan pe kuch pata thodi na lag payega, toh phir kya chalo. Rewati Raman Singh: Ishme itni preshani ki kya baat hai 10 minutes baithiyega our 10 minutes main baat ho jayegi aur baat khatam. Phone se kya baat karun phone se kya baat hogi. You have got the audio and videotapes. We are enclosing the transcript of the tapes with this representation. We believe this to be the true transcript. We understand that the channel has submitted several CDs to the Hon’ble Speaker which have been handed over to the Committee. We are unaware of the authenticity of those CDs. When the channel had placed the secret cameras and audio devices in the living room of Shri Ashok Argal, we were given to understand that the audio recording of the audio devices would be much better than the audio recording on the video cameras. Thus, if the video cameras, the audio CD and the transcript of the conversation are seen, heard or read separately, it may be difficult for members of the committee to co-relate the same. It is, therefore, important that the video CD is juxtaposed with the audio

341 recording and the transcript so as to give the members of the hon’ble committee, a clear and fair idea of what is contained in the cassettes itself. An attempt is already being made to create false evidence and to deny the veracity of what we have said. An attempt will be made by those who are the targets of this investigation to blur the voice quality of the tapes (such attempt may already have been made). The Committee should therefore use the services of voice enhancement equipment so that the names and the statements made in the tapes are audible. The Committee would be required to examine the following evidence in order to determine the veracity of our charges, on the first limb:— (i) Cross examination of Shri Rewati Raman Singh in order to extract the truth from him as to in what context he was trying to persuade the three of us to meet someone in person and who this someone was. It had already been made clear to us that the person in question was Shri Amar Singh, the General Secretary of Samajwadi Party. (ii) The statement of the three complainant MPs should also be recorded. (iii) The reporter of the Staff members of the CNN-IBN who organized the recording and who were present at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence in the adjacent room when the recording was done. Their evidence would be an independent corroboration of what is contained in the tape. (iv) The statements, evidence of the three MPs and the reporter and staff members of CNN-IBN would corroborate every word in the CDs. Stage II: The Meeting The next morning on July, 22, 2008, the two of us Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste was taken to Shri Amar Singh’s residence at 27, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi. We went there in a white Maruti Zen. Our car was followed by a CNN-IBN car with its reporter which contained the CNN-IBN team. Our visit to Shri Amar Singh’s house and back was recorded by the channel. We have already mentioned the conversation Shri Amar Singh had with two of us in the complaint. He had also made us speak to Shri Ahmed Patel on phone. The fact that Shri Amar Singh met us is conclusively proved by the following: (i) Our driving to the residence of Shri Amar Singh and back and the same is clearly visible on the video recordings. (ii) The oral evidence of the CNN-IBN team which followed our vehicle from 4, Ferozeshah Road to 27 Lodhi Estate and back to 4, Ferozeshah Road. (iii) Computer records of the telephones of Shri Amar Singh and Ahmed Patel should be obtained and the factum of Shri Amar Singh having spoken to Shri Ahmed patel and made him speak to us from his residence on the morning of 22nd July, 2008 be established. Stage III: The Payment—The Most Crucial Phase This is the most crucial part of the investigation. Why should a person called Shri Sanjeev Saxena come to 4, Ferozeshah Road to make payment of the first installment of Rs. One crore. Shri Sanjeev Saxena has been working as a part of the staff of Shri Amar Singh for quite some time. Shri Amar Singh had offered to make payment to us when we went to his house but we refused to walk out with the payment on the ground that there were media persons outside the

342 gate. Soon after we reached the residence of Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Sanjeev Saxena arrived with one colleague. Their entire movements and conversation in the room was recorded by the cameras fitted by the CNN-IBN team. The entire transcript of the conversation as recorded in the room conclusively establishes that Shri Sanjeev Saxena came as a representative of Shri Amar Singh to deliver the money, made the complainants speak to Shri Amar Singh and repeatedly dialed the phone number of Shri Amar Singh from his own mobile phone. The relevant resume of the evidence in this regard is as under: The Scene and the conversation Sanjeev Saxena: Dialing a number from his mobile. Mahavir Singh: Amar Singh ji se? Ashok: Haa. Mahavir: Kya naam bataya aapne apna? Sanjeev: Sanjeev. Mahavir: Ek baar Amar Singh ji se baat ho jaati……… Sanjeev: Abhi busy chal raha hai unka phone. Mahavir: Yeh poora hai, (Refers to money) Sanjeev: Maine count nahi kiya hai, jaise diya waise hi le aaya. Mahavir: Count toh kar lete, ha ha Ashok: Baat toh ho gay hai, aapka bacha hua, aap nahi aaye they us samay nahi toh wahi ho jaati. (This corroborates that only two MPs had gone in the morning and spoken about the third) Mahavir: Kaam se mujhe jaana para. Sanjeev (on the phone): Baat abh chal rahi hai, jaise hi khatam hogi mujhe batana. Sanjeev: bas Ashok: bas baat ho jaye Sanjeev: Haan Ashok: ek baar inki baat karwa do inki sahab se... Sanjeev: Haan, haan abhi busy chal rahi hai sahab ka phone Mahaveer: ek kaam aur karoge? Yeh dono kai hai Ashok: Yeh to token money hai Mahavir: Wahi toh main keh raha hoon... Ashok: Biswas toh karna hoga Sanjeev’s phone rings. Sanjeev: Haan ji Sir yeah Ashokji aur Mahavir Singh Bhagora ji baat karna chahtey hai, who bhi yahan baithey hue hai. Ashok: Halo halo, Mahavir Bhagora ji bola tha na aapko who aagaye hi, baat kar lijiye (hands over the phone to Mahavir).

343 Mahavir: Halo, Namaskar, hum subhey aa nahi paye the, kyunki hamare CM Sahab aa gaye they, Rajasthan ke CM saheb aa gaye they na toh main aapke pass hazir nahi ho paya tha. Main subhey haazir nahi ho paya tha. Main abhi Ashokji ke yahan aaya hua hoon. Ashokji jo hai na MP unke pass aaya tha. Ashokji ke yahan hoon... lo aap baat karo.

Sanjeev: Yes Sir, main Sanjeev bol raha hoon. Haan Ashok ji hi aur Ek Mahavir Singh Bhagora ji hai Rajasthan se, jo aap baat kar rahe they. Bhagora Bhagora. Haanji Kulaste jee…, jee Sir, jee Sir, main baat karvata hoon, lijiye baat kijiye.

Hands the phone to Ashok.

Ashok: 1 crore prapt ho gaya. 1 poora prapt ho gaya. 1 crore prapt ho gaya hai. Jee theek hai. Maloom hai, theek hai Sir...

It is clear from the above extracts, the complete version of which is enclosed that Shri Sanjeev Saxena came on behalf of Shri Amar Singh to deliver the money to the three of us. Since Shri Mahavir Singh Bhagora could not meet Shri Amar Singh in the morning it was important for him to get Shri Mahavir Singh to speak to Amar Singh. After delivering the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, Shri Sanjeev Saxena made all of us to speak to Shri Amar Singh.

The principal question which the Enquiry Committee should address itself to is as to why Shri Sanjeev Saxena brought the money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh during the Vote of Confidence motion.

Lying is an important circumstance against Amar Singh. He immediately denied on 22nd July, 2008 evening that he did not know anybody called Sanjeev Saxena. Subsequently, answering a question to some media persons he also admitted that Sanjeev Saxena earlier worked with him but no longer. The crucial question thus is who is Sanjeev Saxena and what is his relationship with Amar Singh. This question is conclusively answered by the followings facts:—

(1) The video recording would show that one of the persons present on the CD, seeks the mobile number of Shri Sanjeev Saxena who gave the number of mobile phone. He was carrying his mobile phone number i.e. 9811721499. This phone even otherwise is regularly used by Shri Sanjeev Saxena and is registered in the name of a company, namely, M/s HFCL., The phone is in the name of HFCL C/o Sanjeev Saxena and recorded at his address H-186 Ramakrishan Vihar, IP Extension, Plot No. 29, New Delhi. M/s HFCL is a corporate group which is known to be close to Shri Amar Singh. (2) Shri Sanjeev Saxena has been using this phone number to send various SMS messages to various persons including Press reporters on the political beat in Delhi. The Vote of Confidence took place on 21-22 July, 2008. An illustration of such a message sent to the entire political media of Delhi on 20th July, 2008 at 5.23 PM read as under: “MR. AMAR SINGH WILL ADDRESS A PC TODAY (20.7.08) AT 7 PM AT 27 LODHI ESTATE THANKS AND REGARDS: SANJEEV SAXENA.” This was the Press Conference in which Shri Amar Singh announced the defection of Shri Brij Bhushan Saran Singh, MP. The fact that Shri Sanjeev Saxena was giving messages from his phone informing Press reporters about the Press Conference of Shri Amar Singh as late as on 20 July, 2008 makes it clear that he was working with Shri Amar Singh till that day.

344 (3) Shri Sanjeev Saxena came to the residence of Shri Ashok Argal along with his colleague in a White Gypsy Regn. No. DL 3CS 8562. This car is registered in the name of M/s Pankaja Art and Credit, C/o E-593, GK-II, New Delhi, a firm belonging to Amar Singh’s family. This firm belongs to members of the family of Shri Amar Singh and is registered at his private residence E-593, Greater Kailash-II, New Delhi where he earlier stayed before becoming a MP. (4) The clinching evidence with regard to association of Shri Amar Singh and Shri Sanjeev Saxena is inbuilt in the cassette itself. Shri Sanjeev Saxena makes the three MPs speak to Shri Amar Singh over phone. The phone gets repeatedly disconnected. He re-dials the phone repeatedly and gets the MPs to speak to Shri Amar Singh. He also speaks to Amar Singh himself. All this is recorded in the record of Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile phone No. 9811721499. The computer record of this phone clearly shows that all these calls have been made to phone No. 011 24616827. This phone is registered in the name of Shri Amar Singh at his residence 27-Lodi Estate, New Delhi-3. Men can lie but circumstances don’t. If during the period when Shri Sanjeev Saxena was at the residence of Shri Ashok Argal, the telephone records shows repeated phone calls to the phone installed at Amar Singh’s residence and the video recording shows that he dials the phone repeatedly and gets the MPs to speak to Amar Singh. There cannot be a better clinching evidence than this. The number of phone calls shown on the computer records of Phone No. 9811721499 clearly is as many as the number of calls connected by Shri Sanjeev Saxena on the video recordings. The fact that he is calling up the landline of Shri Amar Singh is also recorded on the Video CDs. The mobile phone record of Sanjeev Saxena is recorded herewith. (5) With the advent of technology, the movement of a person can be got determined from the movement of his mobile phone. The movement of Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile phone on the morning of 22 July, 2008 shows that after 10 AM he had left Lodi Estate and reached. Ferozeshah Road. This movement can be determined from the record of the telephone service provider which clearly shows that at 10 AM he had left Cell Tower having jurisdiction over Lodi Estate and reached the area in and around Ferozeshah Road which came under a different Cell Tower jurisdiction. A record of Sanjeev Saxena’s phone is enclosed with this representation. The Committee should summon the entire record of the telephone service provider of phone number 9811721499. The phone calls made from this number to Shri Amar Singh’s landline are from the Cell Tower covering 4, Ferozeshah Road. All phone calls made from the mobile phones of Sanjeev Saxena and even his colleague should be identified and inquired into whether they were made to the numbers available with Shri Amar Singh. (6) Shri Sanjeev Saxena’s mobile phone No. 9811721499 went into disuse immediately after the ‘Cash for Vote’ scam was shown in Parliament. This shows the guilty intention of Sanjeev Saxena. (7) Shri Sanjeev Saxena and his family has now gone into hiding after the expose and shifted out of his residence II-186, Ramakrishan Vihar, IP Extension, New Delhi. (8) On 1st August, 2008, Uma Bharati made public a make belief CD showing Shri Sanjeev Saxena coming out of 9, Ashoka Road and entering 4, Ferozeshah Road. This was a play-acting recording done after 22.07.2008 as is evident from the hoarding at 345 Shri Argal’s residence at 4, Ferozeshah Road. The payment for this hoarding was made on 24.7.2008 by Dushyant Gautam who put up the hoarding and the hoarding was put up on 25.7.2008. The neccessary documents in this regard are enclosed herewith. Not only does the presence of the hoarding put up on 25.7.2008 demolish this false evidence, there is another fundamental flaw in it. In the fake play acted CD that Sanjeev Saxena has facilitated he is carrying a Black Bag which is entirely different from the ‘Thaila type much larger bag’ in the CD recorded by CNN-IBN. This clearly shows that Shri Sanjeev Saxena even on and after 22.07.08 was in the control of those who recorded the CD for play acting. Sushri Uma Bharati released the CD after meeting Shri Amar Singh. Both of them should be summoned before this Committee. Shri Sanjeev Saxena is under the complete control of Shri Amar Singh. His subsequent CD is recorded at his will of Shri Amar Singh and he disappears at Shri Amar Singh’s convenience. (9) The oral evidence of the three MPs that Shri Sanjeev Saxena came to deliver money on behalf of Shri Amar Singh is a key evidence which substantiates the contents of the CD. (10) The contents of the CD be further corroborated by the CNN-IBN team which was present at 4, Ferozeshah Road at the time when this transaction was recorded. The payment by Shri Sanjeev Saxena on behalf of Shri Amar Singh, the link of Shri Saxena to Shri Amar Singh, the phone calls made by Shri Sanjeev Saxena from 4, Ferozeshah Road to Shri Amar Singh and the video contents of CD conclusively proves that the money was sent by Shri Amar Singh to bribe the 3 MPs to abstain from the Vote of Confidence. This is direct evidence which can be corroborated by the statements of the MPs and the members of the CNN-IBN team. We have been constrained to analyse the entire evidence and present it to you so that the same can be given to all members of the Committee who then have the benefit of the entire transaction as visible on the CD. We have expressed our fear that the CD which has been submitted late requires to be authenticated and then juxtaposed with the contents of the audio recording and the transcript of the CD is available. All supporting documents in regard to our above submissions are being enclosed as Annexures to this representation. As our colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagora (Salumbar, Rajasthan) is hospitalized, he could not append his signature to this representation. With regards, Yours sincerely, Sd/- (Ashok Argal) Member, Lok Sabha (Morena, Madhya Pradesh) Encl: As mentioned above Sd/- (Faggan Singh Kulaste) Member, Lok Sabha (Mandla, Madhya Pradesh)

346 03:00-10:15 There are lot many people in the room so they have general talk... After the exit of all the extras the real talk begins— 10:30 MAHAVIR SINGH: Wahan aur logon ke samney. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Wahan aur log nahi hai. MAHAVIR SINGH: Aur logon ke samne expose ho jaye. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Wahan expose hone ki baat nahi hai. Wahan aur koi nahi hai. Ghar ki baat hai, aur kya bhai hum toh hai na. MAHAVIR SINGH: Woh toh theek hai, hum toh Jaiye they aapke vaaste, aur aap bhi yahan aa gaye. Wahan bade log hai pata nahi kaun kaun hai unke ghar pe... REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Arrey yaar hum hai na, aap chalo toh, hum hai na aap chalo toh, hum hai na aapke saath. FAGGAN SINGH: Baat hogay hai...(name not clear) Sahab sey. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Arrey ho gayi na aap chalo toh, aapke saamne baat karta hoon. Ki poori raat yahi hota rahega ki hum baat kartey rahey ki aap jao baat karlo. Hum baat kar chuke hain tabhi toh yahan aaye hain. MAHAVIR SINGH: Nahin aur baat thi. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Kya baat hai batao... MAHAVIR SINGH: Amount ki toh baat nahi huyi hogi...(last word not clear). REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Amount ka toh humne baat nahin kiya hai, humne toh baat kiya nahin hai, amount ki toh aapke saamne baat hogi. Aapke saamne baat hogi agar aapko baat karna ho jayegi. Agar aapko karna hoga toh kariyega nahi toh aap aapne ghar jao... amount ka toh... baat karenge hum kaise karle.. hum kya jaane aap.. (does not complete the sentence). 12.00 FAGGAN SINGH: Yeh ek aisa matter hai jisme rajnitik drishti se vichar karna parta ha... (2 words not clear) aur party ka bhi...(not clear) responsibility aisa hai na...phir aapko bhi idea ho. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Partiyan toh...(one word not clear) shamil ho jaaye...(2 words not clear) hoga toh aap kijiye nahin toh phir aapko zabardasti toh pakar kar nahin rakha gaya hai na. FAGGAN SINGH: Nahin woh baat nahi hai. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Dekhiye humlog...(word not clear) hai yeh frank hai agar aapko vishwas hai toh chaliye nahin toh mana kar dijiye ki bhai mujhe nahi aana. Agar nahi jana hai toh khatam kariye aur aage kuchh nahi... FAGGAN SINGH: Dekhiye baat hone se insaan ko idea ho jaata hai.

347 REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Baat toh har jagah hota hai, aamne saamne baat hotey hai, peeth peechey toh baat nahin hoti. Agar aapko baat pasand hoga toh theek hai. Isme itni pareshani ki kya baat hai. Hum aapke ghar chalkar aaye...(not clear) 12:57. FAGGAN SINGH: Nahin asi kya baat hai. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Agar koi aisi baat hoti toh hum aate lekin...(not clear) karne par manliya hum (not clear)...ho...(not clear) aaplogon ka (not clear)…. kya hai? FAGGAN SINGH: Hum logon ki kabhi is prakar ki single baat cheet nahi huyi...(not clear) kinhi paristhitiyon ke karan abhi yeh nahin toh kabhi kis tarah...(not clear). REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Isliye toh keh raha hoon chaliye aamne saamne baat ho jayegi. Agar aapka hoga tab theek hai nahin toh mat kijyega. Koi zabardasti thodi na hai. Aap kahoge toh hum abhi bhi taal dengey kyun. Agar aapko pasand hoga toh karyega nahin toh nahin kariyega baat khatam ho gaya. Aap bhi aapne ghar jao, aur hum bhi jaaye. 14:00 MAHAVIR SINGH: Says smth. (not clear) REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Baat toh aamne saamne hogi bhaiya. MAHAVIR SINGH: Aapki bhi toh koi baat huyi hogi? REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Nahin hamari koi baat nahi huyi hai. Hamari yeh baat huyi hai ki humne bataya unko ki hum lekar aa jayenge aur baat ho jaayegi aamne saamne. Aaplog...(not clear) karoge ki...(one sentence not clear). Aap ek baar phone par upar discuss kar to. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Nahin aamne saamne baat hogi, teeno ke satisfaction ke liye saath mein baat hogi, wahan per kuch pata todi na lag payega, toh phir kya chalo. REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Hum baat nahi karenge chalna hai toh batao nahin toh hum jaaye apne ghar sone. Nahin hum aur baat nahin karenge. Agar aap logon ko deal pasand nahin hoga toh mat kijiyega aur chale aayenge. Isme itni pareshani ki kya baat hai. Koi aapko zabardasti toh nahi pakar raha hai. Hum aapke ghar aaye toh...(not clear). 15:30 REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Isme itni pareshani ki kya baat hai 10 minutes baithiyega aur 10 minutes mein baat ho jayegi aur baat khatam. Phone se kya baat karun phone se kya baat hogi, baat toh aamne saamne hogi. 16:00 REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Agar aapko koi shaq ho aur aap nahi aana chahte ho toh keh-do ki main nahi aana chahta. 17:13-18:28 Meeting over—exit of Revathy and his friends.

348 Transaction Transcription 00:50 Entry of BJP MP’s Ashok Agral and Mahavir Singh in the room. 01:20 Entry of SP man—Sanjeev in the room. In Frame SP man Sanjeev and BJP MP Ashok Argal, BJP MP Mahavir Singh is audible but is not throughout in the frame. 01:55 Sanjeev dialing a number from his mobile. 02:39 MAHAVIR: Amar Singhji se? ASHOK: Haa. 02:54 MAHAVIR: Kya naam bataya aapne apna? SANJEEV: Sanjeev. MAHAVIR: Hamare CM Sahab aa gaye they isliye late ho gaya, gari aa gayi thi. Nahin toh ek baar sahab se baat ho jaye, yeh sab jo hai woh vishwas ke mamley...(Three words not clear) Amount poora hai? SANJEEV: Geena nahi hai, sahab ne aise hi de diya. 04:15 MAHAVIR: Ek baar Amar Singhji se baat ho jaati... SANJEEV: Abhi busy chal raha hai unka phone... MAHAVIR: Yeh poora hai? SANJEEV: Maine count nahi kiya hai, jaise diya waise hi le aaya. MAHAVIR: Count toh kar lete, ha ha. 06:27 ASHOK: Baat toh ho gaya hai, aapka bacha hua. Aap nahi aaye they us samay nahin toh wahin ho jaati. MAHAVIR: Kaam se mujhe jaana para. SANJEEV: (On the phone): Baat abhi chal rahi hai, jaise hi khatam hogi mujhe batana. 09.14 MAHAVIR: Dekh to lo ki poore hain ki nahin.

349 The sequence of them taking out the money and placing it on the table... 10.00 SANJEEV: Bas ASHOK: Bas baat ho jaye. SANJEEV: Haan. ASHOK: Ek baar inki baat karwa do inki sahab se... SANJEEV: Haan, Haan abhi busy chal raha hai sahab ka phone. MAHAVIR: Ek kaam aur karoge? yeh dono ka hai. ASHOK: Yeh toh token money hai. MAHAVIR: Wahi toh main keh raha hoon... ASHOK: Biswas toh karna hoga. SANJEEV’s phone rings. SANJEEV: Hello...(confirms from Ashok) Mahavir Singh Bhagora. Sir Mahavir Singh Bhagora ji Yahan baithey hain. (Then long silence)...Line kat gayi hai...Office ke landline se milana parega...(then he keeps trying the no.) 13.10 SANJEEV: Haan Madam Boss se baat kara dijiye baar baar line kaat ja rahi. 14:13 SANJEEV: Haan ji Sir yeah Ashokji aur Mahavir Singh Bhagora ji baat karna chahtey hain, woh bhi yahan baithey hue hain. ASHOK: Hello, hello Mahavir Bhagora ji bola tha na aapko woh aagaye hain, baat karlijiye- (hands the phone to Mahaveer) MAHAVIR: (comes in frame now): Hello Namaskar, hum subhey aa nahi paye they kyunki hamare CM Sahab aaye they, Rajasthan ke CM Sahab aa gaye they na toh main aapke pass hazir nahi ho paya tha, main subhey haazir nahi ho paya tha. Main abhi Ashokji ke yahan aaya hua hoon. Ashokji jo hai na MP unke paas aaya tha. Main toh woh jo Rajasthan ke CM sahab aagaye mujhe waha bula liya tha. Main yahan aa gaya hoon, aake notice de rahan hoon, Main yahan Ashokji ke yahan hoon...Lo aap baat karo...bata do (hands the phone to Sanjeev) SANJEEV: Yes Sir, main Sanjeev bol raha hoon Haan Ashok ji hain aur Ek, Mahavir Singh Bhagora ji hain Rajasthan se, jo aap baat kar rahe they... Bhagora Bhagora. Haanji Kulasti jee... jee Sir, jee Sir, main baat karvata hoon, lijiye baat kijiye. Hands the phone to Ashok. 16:12 ASHOK: 1 crore prapt ho gaya. 1 poora prapt ho gaya. 1 Crore prapt ho gaya hai jee theek hai. Maloom hai, theek hai Sir.

350 16:53 Then they put the money back in a poly bag, leave it under the table. 18:00 Sanjeev again talks over the phone. SANJEEV: Haanji Sir main bas nikal raha hoon. Baat karwa ta hoon (hands the phone to Ashok) ASHOK: Haanji Sir, theek hai (then hands the phone to Mahavir) 19:00 MAHAVIR: Haanji Sir. Theek hai Sir. bus, baki Ashokji ki yahan. Baki inkey yahan pahuncha dena. Koi viswas ka aadmi ho... haan yeah lo baat karo Ashok ji se...(Hands the phone to Ashok) ASHOK: Haan Singh Sahab, Dekh lenge hum aayenge aapke contact mein. 20:00 Sanjeev leaves the room.

351 EXTRACTS OF COMPUTER RECORD OF MOBILE PHONE NO. 91-98-117-21499

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919811721499 09873210341 20.07.2008 35535900850 45 2 13853 083435 40411020090<> TMSC14

919811721499 09811667645 20.07.2008 35535900850 20 1 18072 092813 40411020090<> TBS49A

919811721499 01122241559 20.07.2008 35535900850 9 1 18072 203902 40411020090<> TBS49A

919811721499 058888 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 102353 40411020090<> <>

919811721499 058888 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 13853 102653 40411020090<> <>

919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 35535900850 15 1 19151 112618 40411020090<> TBS17A

919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 35535900850 33 2 22722 112807 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 01123386842 20.07.2008 35535900850 89 1 19151 112959 40411020090<> TBS17A

919811721499 01123365125 20.07.2008 35535900850 130 1 18232 113481 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 35535900850 67 1 18232 113633 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 35535900850 16 2 22723 114457 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09724501956 20.07.2008 35535900850 678 1 18072 170408 40411020090<> TBS49A

919811721499 09899036373 20.07.2008 35535900850 12 2 18072 173401 40411020090<> TMSC14

919811721499 09899787201 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174202 40411020090<> <>

919811721499 09910566430 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174222 40411020090<> <>

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919811721499 09810623319 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174311 40411020090<> <>

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919811721499 09810674412 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174345 40411020090<> <>

919811721499 09811540569 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174403 40411020090<> <>

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919811721499 09810639584 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174603 40411020090<> <>

919811721499 09818296030 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174620 40411020090<> <>

919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 35535900850 174 1 18232 154617 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01145628700 21.07.2008 35535900850 38 2 10361 155810 40411020090<> TMSC2

919811721499 09873210341 21.07.2008 35535900850 6 1 18072 082120 40411020090<> TBS49A

919811721499 09873210341 21.07.2008 35535900850 6 2 18072 082716 40411020090<> TMSC14

919811721499 09873210341 21.07.2008 35535900850 28 2 18072 082749 40411020090<> TMSC14

919811721499 01123794848 21.07.2008 35535900850 26 2 22722 170818 40411020090<> TMSC1

919811721499 09899639769 21.07.2008 35535900850 36 1 22722 171054 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09910461193 21.07.2008 35535900850 18 2 11913 085713 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09999012645 21.07.2008 35535900850 15 2 22722 123519 40411020090<> MICINC

919811721499 09999012645 21.07.2008 35535900850 8 2 19151 123835 40411020090<> MICINC

354 919811721499 09999012645 21.07.2008 35535900850 94 2 22722 125148 40411020090<> MICINC

919811721499 09724501956 21.07.2008 35535900850 59 2 18072 091531 40411020090<> TMSC1

919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 35535900850 81 1 22722 181302 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 35535900850 4 1 19151 201132 40411020090<> TBS 17A

919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 35535900850 79 1 22722 201230 40411020090<> TBS 11A

919811721499 09839035298 21.07.2008 35535900850 41 2 22723 202047 40411020090<> TMSC1

919811721499 09871205522 21.07.2008 35535900850 50 1 22722 203536 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09871205522 21.07.2008 35535900850 20 2 22722 203644 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09871205522 21.07.2008 35535900850 66 1 22722 203724 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09350397209 21.07.2008 35535900850 61 2 34351 213753 40411020090<> TMSC2

919811721499 01203925555 21.07.2008 35535900850 37 2 18232 131400 40411020090<> TMSC1

919811721499 09724501956 21.07.2008 35535900850 17 2 18232 132105 40411020090<> TMSC1

919811721499 01204395555 21.07.2008 35535900850 53 2 51513 104401 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 35535900850 63 1 17041 104517 40411020090<> TBSC48

919811721499 01123794848 21.07.2008 35535900850 8 2 19151 142007 40411020090<> TMSC2

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 50 1 12932 105738 40411020090<> TBSC3

919811721499 09871205522 22.07.2008 35535900850 33 1 12932 111114 40411020090<> TBSC3

919811721499 01122241559 22.07.2008 35535900850 24 1 18232 135946 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01122241559 22.07.2008 35535900850 176 1 19151 142608 40411020090<> TBS17A

919811721499 01203925555 22.07.2008 35535900850 38 2 22722 143658 40411020090<> MICINC

919811721499 09811871206 22.07.2008 35535900850 26 2 22722 162303 40411020090<> MICINC

919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 35535900850 3 2 22722 162342 40411020090<> MICINC

919811721499 09811871206 22.07.2008 35535900850 76 2 22722 162357 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09871205522 22.07.2008 35535900850 26 2 22721 103258 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 35535900850 7 1 15821 105652 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 35535900850 13 1 15821 110030 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 21 1 15821 110201 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 35535900850 60 2 15821 110322 40411020090<> MICINC

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 14 1 15821 110821 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 69 1 15821 110943 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 17 1 15821 111548 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 10 1 15821 112016 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 17 2 15821 112402 40411020090<> TMSC2

919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 35535900850 28 1 15821 112444 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 35535900850 21 1 15821 112640 40411020090<> TBS11A

919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 35535900850 181 2 15821 112720 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 35535900850 12 2 15821 113101 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 35535900850 115 2 10292 113126 40411020090<> TMSC10

919811721499 09968213136 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174711 40411020090<> <>

919811721499 09810006411 20.07.2008 <> 1 31 18072 174729 40411020090<> <>

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366 APPENDIX V (Please see para 22 of the Report)

To New Delhi The Chairman, August 4, 2008 The Committee to enquire into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence, 147, Parliament House, New Delhi. Sir,

Kindly refer to our letter dated August 02, 2008 wherein, inter alia, the relationship of Shri Sanjeev Saxena with Shri Amar Singh, General-Secretary of the Samajwadi Party was established by us.

2. To reinforce our assertions, we enclose a copy of the admission form of Dayal Singh College, New Delhi where Shri Samarth Saxena, son of Shri Sanjiv Saxena sought admission into an undergraduate course in the current academic session (2008-09). Column 5 of the application form calls for certain personal particulars like father’s name, mother’s name, occupation & designation, office address, telephone number(s) etc. It may be seen from the details filled in Column No. 5 in the admission form by the applicant i.e., Samarth Saxena, that his fater’s name is Shri Sanjiv Saxena, Occupation & Designation as Service & Manager and Office Address as 27, Lodhi Estate which happens to be the official residence of Shri Amar Singh, MP (Rajya Sabha). The telephone No.(s) is mentioned as 32565397 which is a land line telephone connection installed at the said permises i.e., 27, Lodhi Estate, as per the List of Members as in January, 2008 published by Rajya Sabha Secretariat mentioned at page 72. The mobile phone number mentioned in the column is 9811721499.

3. It may be observed that the records of phone calls made from this mobile number 9811721499 to Shri Amar Singh have already been submitted by as vide our earlier letter referred to above. It may also be noticed that the Application form has been signed by both Shri Sanjeev Saxena and Shri Samarth Saxena.

4. As our colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagora (Salumbar, Rajasthan) is hospitalized, he could not sign this letter.

Yours faithfully,

Sd/- Sd/- (Ashok Argal) (Faggan Singh Kulaste) Member, Lok Sabha Member, Lok Sabha (Morena, Madhya Pradesh) (Mandla, Madhya Pradesh)

367 Eligible/Not Eligible Date of Submission……………………… Rs. 5/- Form No. 061 DYAL SINGH COLLEGE (University of Delhi) Lodhi Road, New Delhi-110003 Application Form (2008-09) ADMISSION ON THE BASIS OF DISTINCTION IN SPORTS Note: Candidates must read carefully ‘ATTACHED INSTRUCTIONS’ before filling up the Form 1. Courses for which the Candidates wishes to be considered for admission (in order of preference.) 1st Preference: B.Com. (Hons.) 2nd Preference: B.A. (Economic Hons.) 3rd Preference: B.A. (English Hons.) 4th Preference: B.Com (Pass) 5th Preference: ______2. Name (IN BLOCK LETTERS): SAMARTH SAXENA 3. Date of Birth: 16-10-89 [Sixteenth October Ninteen Eighty Nine) 4. Residence Address: H-186, R.K. Vihar, Plot No 29, I.P. Extn., Patparganj, Delhi-110092 Tel. No.(s) 22241559 Mobile 9899639769 5. Father’s Name: Sh. Sanjiv Saxena Mother’s Name: Smt. Sangeeta Saxena Occupation and Designation: Service & Manager Office Address: 27, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi-110003 Tel No. (s) 32565397 Mobile 9811721499 6. Name of the School last attended (with address): AMITY INTL School, M. Block Saket, New Delhi 7. (i) Year of Passing: Class XII Exam 2008 (ii) Board: CBSE (iii) Percentage of MarksL: 59.75% [Best of Four) 8. Name(s) of the sport(s) on the basis of which admission is sought: Cricket 9. DISTINCTIONS ACHIEVED (A) INTERNATIONAL LEVEL Name of the Championship Country Year Position …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ………………………………

368 (B) JUNIOR NATIONAL LEVEL (Also Open All India/National Tournament recognised by the concerned Federation) Name of the Championship Country Year Position …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… (C) NATIONAL SCHOOL GAMES …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… (D) ALL INDIA RURAL SPORTS AND WOMEN SPORTS FESTIVAL …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… (E) INTER ZONAL TOURNAMENTS (Also Sainik School, Kendriya Vidyalaya and Public School Competitions.) Inter Zonal Tournament India 2007-08 Winner …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… DECLARATION 5. I, SAMARTH SAXENA hereby declare that all statements made in this application are true, complete and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and in the event of any of the information or enclosed certificates being found incorrect at any time, my candidature/admission is liable to be cancelled and action initiated against me. I undertake to participate in sports activity during my stay in the college. Place: New Delhi Date: Sd/- Sd/- Name and Signature of Parent/Guardian Signature of the Candidate FOUR USE BY THE SPORTS ADMISSION COMMITTEE Marks on the basis of Testimonials A Level Marks for Addl. Marks Marks for Trials/ Total Marks Participation for Position Interview B Level C level

369 LIST OF MEMBERS OF RAJYA SABHA

PERMANENT AND DELHI ADDRESSES AND TELEPHONE NUMBERS (as on January 14, 2008)

RAJYA SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI

370 SIDDIQUI, Shri Shahid—SP (Uttar Pradesh) 630-Garhi Malook, Noor Basti, Sharanpur, Uttar Pradesh (i) 8, South Avenue, New Delhi-110 011 (ii) D-21, Nizamuddin West, New Delhi-110 013 (Tel. 24354706, 24358628, 24358630, 24358633, Mobile 9868181199) Email: [email protected],[email protected] SINGH, Shri Amar—SP (Uttar Pradesh) A-361, Chikambarpur, Surya Nagar, Distt. Ghaziabad (i) E-593, Greater Kailash-II, New Delhi (ii) 27, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi-110 003 (Tel. 32565397,32542159, 23794913, 23792643) Email:[email protected] SINGH, Shri Arjun—INC (Madhya Pradesh) Gram-Sabda. P.O. Churhat, Distt. Sidhi, Madhya Pradesh [Tel. (07802) 2770709] 17, Akbar Road, New Delhi-110 001 (Tel. 23016516, 23017340, Fax 23017404, Mobile 9868181607) Email: [email protected] SINGH, Shri Bashistha Narain—Samata (Bihar) Lalgang Karvi, P.O. Dumrao Textiles, Thana Dumrao, Distt. Buxar, Bihar [Tel. (06323) 223164, 2207151] 190-191, South Avenue, New Delhi-110 011 (Tel. 23795537, 23795505, Mobile 9868181567) Email:[email protected]

371 APPENDIX VI (Please see para 23 of the Report) To The Chairman, The Committee to enquire into the complaint made New Delhi, by some Members regarding alleged offer of August 19, 2008. money to them in connection with voting on the Motion of Confidence 147, Parliament House, New Delhi Sir, Please refer to the submission made vide our letter dated August 4, 2008, furnishing comprehensive proof of the intimate relationship between Shri Sanjiv Saxena and Shri Amar Singh, MP (Rajya Sabha), as recorded in the application form for admission in the Dyal Singh College, New Delhi, filled by Shri Samarth Saxena, son of Sanjiv Saxena mentioning, the employment details, office address, telephone number etc., all clearly linking Shri Sanjiv Saxena to Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS). I am now sending herewith a copy of the personal letter dated June 2, 2008 which Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) wrote to Mr. Deepak Malhotra, Principal of the Dyal Singh College, New Delhi, soliciting favourable consideration of the candidature of Shri Samarth Saxena for admission into B.Com. (H) course in 2008-09 under sports category and introducing him in writing to be the son of his Secretary. The exact sentence mentioned in the letter is “Shri Sanjiv Saxena, my Secretary, seeking admission for his son, Samarth Saxena”, for examination by the Hon’ble Committee. The content of the enclosed letter will strengthen further the veracity of our earlier submission that Shri Sanjiv Saxena has been an employee of Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) and his involvement in the activities of carrying and delivering “cash Rs. One Crore” on July 22, 2008 to us has been at the behest of Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) only. The enclosed evidence should put at rest doubts, if any, in the minds of the Hon’ble Committee about the link between Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) and Shri Sanjiv Saxena. As my one of the colleague, Shri Mahavir Bhagora (Salumbar, Rajasthan), continues recuperating post his heart surgery, and other colleague Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste is away to his constituency, that is the reasons why they could not sign this letter. Yours faithfully,

Sd/- (Ashok Argal) MP, Lok Sabha (Morena, Madhya Pradesh) Encl.: Copy of letter dated 2nd June, 2008 from Shri Amar Singh, MP (RS) to Mr. Deepak Malhotra, Principal, Dyal Singh College, Lodhi Road, New Delhi.

372 AMAR SINGH 27, LODHI ESTATE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT NEW DELHI-110 003 (RAJYA SABHA) TEL. 32565397/32542188/24616827 FAX 91-11-24636299 Email:[email protected]

June 2, 2008 My Dear Deepak ji, This is further to my telephonic conversation with you. Placed alongwith my letter is a request from Sh. Sanjiv Saxena, my Secretary, seeking admission for his son, Samarth Saxena, in B.Com. (H) under sports category in your esteemed college. I would be very grateful and obliged if you kindly consider his request favourably. Thanking you, With regards, Yours affectionately,

SD/- (AMAR SINGH)

Mr. Deepak Malhotra Principal Dyal Singh College (Evening) Lodhi Road New Delhi-110 003

373 Eligible/Not Eligible Date of Submission……………………… Rs. 5/- Form No. 061 DYAL SINGH COLLEGE (University of Delhi) Lodhi Road, New Delhi-110003 Application Form (2008-09) ADMISSION ON THE BASIS OF DISTINCTION IN SPORTS Note: Candidates must read carefully ‘ATTACHED INSTRUCTIONS’ before filling up the Form 1. Courses for which the Candidates wishes to be considered for admission (in order of preference.) 1st Preference: B.Com. (Hons.) 2nd Preference: B.A. (Economic Hons.) 3rd Preference: B.A. (English Hons.) 4th Preference: B.Com (Pass) 5th Preference: ______2. Name (IN BLOCK LETTERS): SAMARTH SAXENA 3. Date of Birth: 16-10-89 [Sixteenth October Ninteen Eighty Nine) 4. Residence Address: H-186, R.K. Vihar, Plot No 29, I.P. Extn., Patparganj, Delhi-110092 Tel. No.(s) 22241559 Mobile 9899639769 5. Father’s Name: Sh. Sanjiv Saxena Mother’s Name: Smt. Sangeeta Saxena Occupation & Designation: Service & Manager Office Address: 27, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi-110003 Tel No. (s) 32565397 Mobile 9811721499 6. Name of the School last attended (with address): AMITY INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL, M. Block Saket, New Delhi 7. (i) Year of Passing: Class XII Exam 2008 (ii) Board: CBSE (iii) Percentage of MarksL: 59.75% [Best of Four) 8. Name(s) of the sport(s) on the basis of which admission is sought: Cricket 9. DISTINCTIONS ACHIEVED (A) INTERNATIONAL LEVEL Name of the Championship Country Year Position …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ………………………………

374 (B) JUNIOR NATIONAL LEVEL (Also Open All India/National Tournament recognised by the concerned Federation) Name of the Championship Country Year Position …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… (C) NATIONAL SCHOOL GAMES …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… (D) ALL INDIA RURAL SPORTS AND WOMEN SPORTS FESTIVAL …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… (E) INTER ZONAL TOURNAMENTS (Also Sainik School, Kendriya Vidyalaya and Public School Competitions.) Inter Zonal Tournament India 2007-08 Winner …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… …………………………………………… ………………………… ………………………… ……………………………… DECLARATION 5. I, SAMARTH SAXENA hereby declare that all statements made in this application are true, complete and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and in the event of any of the information or enclosed certificates being found incorrect at any time, my candidature/admission is liable to be cancelled and action initiated against me. I undertake to participate in sports activity during my stay in the college. Place: New Delhi Date: Sd/- Sd/- Name & Signature of Parent/Guardian Signature of the Candidate FOUR USE BY THE SPORTS ADMISSION COMMITTEE Marks on the basis of Testimonials A Level Marks for Addl. Marks Marks for Trials/ Total Marks Participation for Position Interview B Level C level

375 APPENDIX VII (Please see para 24 of the Report) COMMUNIST PARTY OF INDIA

CENTRAL OFFICE Ajoy Bhavan, 15, com. Inderjit Gupta Marg, New Delhi-110 002 TELS. 23232801, 23235546, 23235058, 23235099, FAX:23235543 E-mail:[email protected] [email protected]

A.B. BARDHAN General Secretary 19th August 2008 Dear Sir, This is to acknowledge your letter dated 12 August, 2008, suggesting that the Inquiry Committee set up to look into the complaint made by some Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with the voting on the Motion of Confidence to be held on 22 August, 2008, would be glad to have an interaction with me, and requesting me to furnish all the information/ details if any, available with me pertaining to the matter for the consideration of the Inquiry Committee. First of all, I should like to state that I have nothing to do either with the three M.Ps who have made the complaint, nor with the ‘sting operation’ taken by the CNN-IBN. I am in no way connected with, nor concerned in the entire episode under inquiring by the Committee. It appears from your letter that the three MPs, as well as Shri Rajdeep Sardesai of the CNN-IBN have dragged in my name and referred to the speech I am supposed to have made on 14 July in a public rally in Delhi. The action of the 3 MPs and of the CNN-IBN, are a result of their own decisions, and reference to any speech of mine is only incidental, and an afterthought to explain their own decision in the matter. They required no impulse from my side. It is true, I had referred in my speech on July 14, to the unethical manoeuvers and operations by the ruling party, through allurements, intimidation, unimaginably huge amounts of money, and other foul means to suborn the loyalty and integrity of a number of MPs and convert a minority into a majority and thus win the trust vote. I gave vent to my anguish at this unprecedented horse-trading. I referred to an earlier incident way back in 1993 where 50 lakhs each had been paid to a number of MPs. With a much larger stake this time, and with the tremendous price rise and inflation between then and now, the figure of money being paid had gone up to several crores. I mentioned the figure of 25 crores only to emphasise the enormity of this attack and the subversion of our parliamentary system.

376 I am sure the findings of the Committee will uphold the purity and integrity of this parliamentary system, which is the ardent desire of all of us who treasure our democracy.

With regards, Your Sincerely,

Sd/- (A.B. BARDHAN) SHRI P.D.T. ACHARY Secretary General Lok Sabha 18, Parliament House New Delhi.

377 APPENDIX VIII (Please see para 25 of the Report) Tape/CD No. 1 You have said that they might go home before I reach there; what is the use then? I have dropped the idea, now it is 12.00—12.15, when I was leaving. (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Are You listening (Not audible): Please come, we will drop you. Your foot would be perfectly fine. (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Please take seat. :You please come outside. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: I am coming. You may please discuss. :We don’t have time. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: What is now? (Not audible) :There we can have talks in a more comfortable manner, everything will become clear there. Those people will go to sleep, then we will not be able to talk about it (Not audible) shall we go? SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: What is the problem in going there, how we will go there? :We have to go there, much time has been wasted (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Is it true? They are also waiting there. (Not audible) :If they go to sleep, then. (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Let’s go. (Not audible) :If you are interested, come with me, otherwise tell me. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: (Not audible) :We have been waiting since 9.30 and now it’s 1.00 o’clock SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Let us go but before that make a call (Not audible). It would be better to talk once before we go there. :If willing, come (Not audible) only for 5-10 minutes. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Now what is the problem? :If you are not willing to go then should we go? (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: You please sit down, (Not audible) what is the use of our talks? (Not audible) send them outside or (Not audible)

378 :Would you like to talk to them separately? SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Yes. :Ok. You can discuss with them. Who will be there? Please come. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: We are sitting at home, why should we get exposed there? :There is nothing like being exposed (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: That’s O.K., Here at least we are sitting at home. You people have also come here. We are of one category, there may be some big people and we do not know who will be present at his residence. :Don’t worry, we are with you, please come with us. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: You had said rightly earlier. (Not audible) :We are here (Not audible) come, we shall talk in front of you. We have already talked about it, now what for we have come to you? SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: (Not audible) Is there something not substantial? :What is the matter? SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: The issue of amount must have been discussed. :We have not talked about it. The matter relating to amount will be discussed before you. If you want to discuss about it, you can do, otherwise you can come back to your home. How can we talk about the amount? How can we know, it would be discussed before you. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: (Not audible) :(Not audible) It has to be considered from the political angle also. Whatever is the idea that will be discussed before you. If you are willing then you can go ahead, otherwise nobody is going to compel you. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: That is not the point. :(Not audible) We have been called, we trust you, you can say no. If you don’t want to go there, then close the chapter and we may go home. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: (Not audible) :You would talk face-to-face. If you are interested then go ahead, if not, leave it. What is the problem in it? We have come to your home if there was nothing in it, why should we have come to your home? (Not audible) Now, what do you wish now? (Not audible). All this is circumstantial. Everything will be discussed before you. You may go in for it if it suits you, otherwise not. There is no pressure (Not audible). SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: That is what exactly I want to ask. :Depends on your sweet will. You may opt for it or if you don’t we close the chapter and go back. We will talk face-to-face. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Have you spoken to them?

379 :No, I have not. I was only told to approach you so that you could go and talk face-to-face. Now they are calling you. (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: You are asking me to go there. Has it been talked over phone? :No, not on phone. You can go there and talk face-to-face. You may satisfy yourself after talking to them. There is nobody to catch you. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Why should anybody catch me? :Then, why are you feeling apprehensive? SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Let us move then. :You can tell us even now. We can part if you are not willing. We can only try. You may opt for it if you feel like doing so, or, otherwise you are free to turn it down. You are not under any duress. We have come to your place, then. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: No, no. That is not so. What is the problem then? It will take 10 minutes. The talk would last for about 10 minutes and would be over. Now, there will be no talk on phone, you would speak face-to-face. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Then let us go. :If you have any doubt and you do not want to go, say that you would not go and we will also not go. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: All right, then we go in two minutes. :(Not audible) Then, let us know. Best of Luck (Not audible) The talk would be face-to-face. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: This is not necessary. It is not necessary that we go there. On assurance (Not audible) (Ends) (DVD No. 2) How are you? Is everything alright? Please have a seat. SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: How long are you here? SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: I am here up to 29th. Please Come. SHRI FAGGAN SINGH KULASTE: Are you going to Rishikesh? SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Yes. Please sit down. —No, no... —You people have sent… —What for? —If we all go there... —This cannot happen. It is not possible for all of us to go there. —You tell us whether you want to go or not...

380 —You may call Mahavir. —You please go, we have to discuss... —After 9.30...Amar Singhji is there...we have spoken to him. —If you want to speak to him, you may...you may go. —You may discuss. —We may go there, nobody is there. —They are sitting here in my house. SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: What is there to talk about more... SHRI FAGGAN SINGH KULASTE: That is O.K. But, they are big people... SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Don’t worry, we are with you, just don’t worry. Now, everything is settled. Now take this advance... Everything will be done before you. What more to say now...... I have to discuss... SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: What do you want to discuss? —That is not the point... SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: I have not said any thing about the amount...I have talked to him in your presence. The amount will be settled in your presence...You can say yes or no...All will be settled before you. SHRI FAGGAN SINGH KULASTE: Give me some time...I have to think... SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: Everything will be settled before you. If it suits you, say yes, if not, say no...I am not playing any politics... SHRI FAGGAN SINGH KULASTE: We will discuss it. SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: It’ll be face-to-face. What’s the problem.… We have come to your house.… Why are you delaying it?…. What’s your fee? SHRI FAGGAN SINGH KULASTE: We have not discussed such a matter ever before. —We are just asking you.… SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: It’s up to you, if you don’t like, say no... It’s all face-to-face... I have not talked to them...It was discussed that we have to settle it face-to-face... —We have to do the final talks...with these three persons... —Do that later...We will do it separately... —If you do not do, we will also not do. What is the problem in it... SHRI REWATI RAMAN SINGH: What is the problem in it? It has already been discussed...It was not discussed over phone. Talks are held face-to-face. If you have had talks...You would get the money there...let us move now.… —Yes. —Sorry to trouble you... (Ends)

381 DVD/TAPE No. 3

(Some video footage...)

Guard: Please hold it.

(Some video footage...)

:Ajay!

(Video footage...)

:Open!

(Video footage...)

:Amar Singh is expected to come out, so I will have to...

(Video footage...)

:Is he coming?

Guard: Not now.

Lady Reporter: He has some...He has to...I think there is...

(Video footage...)

Reporter: Be ready. May be. Be ready.

(Video footage...)

(Ends)

(DVD/TAPE No. 4)

SERVANT: Sir may I call them in?

SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Yes, please call them.

He is Mr. Bhagora. Bhagora Ji, I had told you. Please tell them...(Not audible) Your name please?

SANJEEV: Sanjeev.

SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: The Chief Minister of Rajasthan had come here, I had gone there.

SANJEEV: Ok.

SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: I come to know later that you would be coming. It would be better if we can have talk with ‘Saheb’ as these are matters of trust.

—How much money have you brought?

SANJEEV: Yes, I have not counted it, you please see it yourself.

(Video footage)

382 (Not audible) SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: How much money have you brought? SANJEEV: I have not counted it. (Not audible) SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: The matter had been settled, we discussed about you also. But you were not present there at that time. (Video footage) SANJEEV: Who is he? SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: He is Mr. Kulaste. (Video footage) SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: How much is it? SANJEEV: Exact One. You please count it. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Why only one? SANJEEV: The rest will also be paid. (Video footage) SANJEEV: What is his name? SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Shri Mahavir Singh Bhagora. SANJEEV: Sir, Shri Mahavir Singh Bhagora is also sitting here. (Video footage) SANJEEV: The phone has got disconnected, perhaps there is no network. (Video footage) SANJEEV: Would you like to talk to him? (Not audible) SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Yes. SANJEEV: Madam, please get me connected to Saheb. (Video footage) SANJEEV: Sir, Argal Saheb wants to speak to you and Mahavir Singh Bhagora is also sitting here. He too wants to speak to you. Please speak to him. SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Singh Saheb, Mahavir Singh of Rajasthan has also come here. I had told you about Bhagoraji, he has come here. Please speak to him. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Sir, The C.M. of Rajasthan had come here and I had gone to see her. So, I could not come to your place. I could not come in the morning and that is why, I have come to the residence of Argalji. Yes, Shri Faggan Singh has also come. Our C.M. had come and she called me there. Now, I have come and sitting at the residence of Ashokji. Please speak to Sanjeev.

383 SANJEEV: Sir, I am Sanjeev this side. Shri Argalji is here and another Member from Rajasthan, Shri Bhagoraji, who spoke to you just now, is also here. Shri Kulaste is also here. Now, I give the phone to Argal Saheb to speak to you. SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Sir, I have got one crore rupees. I have got it in full. I hope they will be given later, is it ok? SANJEEV: May I put it into the bag. (Video footage) SANJEEV: Yes, Madam, the jammer is on here and the lines are getting disconnected. (Video footage) SANJEEV: Yes, Sir, that has been done. I am leaving now. Would you like to speak to him. SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Yes, yes. —Yes, ok. I will get you connected in a second. All right. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Hello, all right, we have discussed. Send here at the residence of Ashokji through some responsible person. Now, speak to Ashokji. SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Yes, Mr. Singh, we will remain in touch with you. All right. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Note down his number. SANJEEV: Number has already been given. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Is it your number? SANJEEV: Yes, Sir. (Video footage) (Not audible) SHRI ASHOK ARGAL: Please come, thank you. —You are being called outside. SHRI MAHAVIR BHAGORA: Thank you very much. (Video footage) (Not audible)

384 APPENDIX IX (Please see para 60 of the Report) To The Honourable Speaker Sudheendra Kulkarni Lok Sabha 17, Balwant Rai Mehta Lane, New Delhi New Delhi-110001 August 14, 2008 Subject: The ‘Cash-for-Votes’ scandal in Parliament involving Shri Amar Singh, General Secretary of the Samajwadi Party; Shri Rewati Raman Singh, Samajwadi Party MP; and Shri Ahmed Patel, Political Secretary to the Congress President on July 22 Honourable Sir, I am submitting the following written submission to you as an eye-witness in the “Cash-for- Votes” scandal that rocked Parliament and shocked the nation on July 22. I have been an activist of the since 1996. Between 1998 and 2004 I served as an aide to Prime Minister, Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. I am also a regular columnist in the Indian Express and several other newspapers. Both in my capacity as a political activist and as a columnist, I have endeavoured to serve the cause of secular nationalism, democracy and public good without fear or favour and to the best of my abilities. Consequent to the withdrawal of the Left parties’ support to the UPA Government on July 8 over the Indo-US nuclear deal, I was deeply agitated by the unethical and fraudulent manner in which the UPA Government started to cobble up majority support. Well before the ‘Cash-for-Votes’ scandal broke out on July 22, I gave expression to my angry feelings and agitated thoughts in two columns. (“From ‘Lal Salaam’ to ‘Dalal Salaam’ July 13, 2008 and ‘Polluting Parliamentary Democracy’, July 20, 2008) After the scandal broke out, I wrote about it in three consecutive columns. (Where is the Proof? Asked the PM, July 27, 2008); ‘Parliament on Sale’, August 3, 2008; and Solzhenitsyn, Lies and Videotape, August 10, 2008). I have attached these columns just to draw your attention to the source of my inspiration for my involvement as a facilitator in the whistle-blowing operation by three BJP MPs—Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Mahavir Bhagora and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste—to expose the ‘Cash-for-Votes’ second. In the fortnight before the trust vote on July 22, it was obvious to every political observer in the national capital that senior leaders of the Congress and Samajwadi Party were trying to lure non-UPA MPs into supporting the UPA Government. At around 11.30 am on July 21, I received a call from Suhail Hindustani, who said, “Bhai Sahab, do something. Over a dozen BJP MPs are being targeted. Huge amounts of money are being offered to get them to switch over.” I have known Suhail, who is also called Raja Hindustani, for many years. He was an activist of the BJP’s Yuva Morcha and later during the NDA Government, worked closely with Shri Shahnawaz Hussain when he became a Union Minister. I asked Suhail for the names of the BJP MPs and phoned him back a little later to say that I wanted to meet him at the earliest for more details. He told me that he had many reliable contacts in the “market” (where middlemen are involved in wheeling and dealing). I asked him,

385 “Aap ki pahunch kahan tak hai? (How high are your contacts?) He said, “Right up to Ahmed Patelji and Amar Singhji.” I then asked Suhail, “What is your motive in giving all this information to me?” His reply gladdened me. He told me about his family background—how his grandfather was a staunch nationalist who refused to migrate to Pakistan after Partition and worked as a committed worker of the . “I come from Rajasthan. And I want to be like Maharana Pratap, and not like Mansingh. If I participate in this horse-trading game, I know that I can make a lot of money like any other dalal in the market. But I want to do something good for my country, my qaum and my party.” I asked Suhail if he would work with a few BJP MPs in a whistle-blowing operation to expose the horse-trading. He agreed enthusiastically. Later in the evening of July 21, a senior colleague of mine in the BJP informed me that CNN-IBN had agreed to record and telecast the whistle-blowing operation and that Shri Siddharth Gautam, a correspondent with the channel, would soon contact me in this regard. I shortly received a call from Shri Siddharth Gautam and we decided to meet at my temporary residence (17, Balwant Rai Mehta Lane). Shri Argal, Shri Bhagora and Shri Kulaste had arrived at my residence. Suhail told me that he was ready to take the MPs to meet Shri Ahmed Patel at the latter’s residence on Willingdon Crescent at 7.30 pm. However, since the CNN-IBN team had not yet arrived, I requested him to get the meeting postponed. He then informed me that he could take the MPs to meet Shri Patel at Le Meridien Hotel at 9.30 pm. A little after 9.30 pm, Shri Siddharth Gautam, accompanied by his cameraman Shri Sudesh arrived at my residence. They fitted hidden cameras behind the shirts worn by Shri Kulaste and Shri Bhagora. Thereafter, Suhail took them Le Meridien Hotel. The CNN-IBN team and I tailed them in another car, which was parked outside the hotel. After about 40 minutes, Suhail came out along with the two MPs to say that Shri Patel had already left the hotel. I then asked Suhail to reach his contacts in the Samajwadi Party. Meanwhile, I accompanied the two MPs and the CNN-IBN team to go to the residence of Shri Argal at 4, Ferozeshah Road. Here I met two more persons from CNN-IBN. One of them introduced himself as Shri Saif Kidwai, a producer with the channel. I do not know the name of the fourth member of the team. Shri Siddharth Gautam and his colleagues fitted hidden video and audio devices in the drawing room in Shri Argal’s house. There was also a listening device in an adjoining room. Soon after midnight, Suhail brought Shri Rewati Raman Singh to Shri Argal’s house. Our three MPs were closeted with Shri Rewati Raman Singh for about 30 minutes in the drawing room. I sat with the CNN-IBN team in the adjoining room. After Shri Rewati Raman Singh left, our three MPs told me about the conversation, the gist of which was as follows:—Shri Rewati Raman Singh had offered to take the three BJP MPs to meet Shri Amar Singh at the latter’s residence (27, Lodhi Estate) if they were agreeable to support the UPA Government. He also said that the “amount” to be paid to the MPs for doing so would be decided by Shri Amar Singh himself. The meeting with Shri Amar Singh could not take place that night since it was already too late. However, Shri Rewati Raman Singh said that the meeting could be arranged in the morning. All of us left Shri Argal’s house at around 3 am and re-assembled at 7 am. About an hour later, in the morning of July 22, Suhail told me that he had telephonically contacted Shri Rewati Raman Singh, who said that Shri Amar Singh was waiting for the MPs at his residence. Accordingly, two MPs—Shri Argal and Shri Kulaste—left for Shri Amar Singh’s house along with Suhail. Shri Bhagora could not go with them due to some prior engagement.

386 I asked Shri Siddharth Gautam if the two MPs or Suhail should go to Shri Amar Singh’s house with hidden cameras. He advised against this, saying it was risky since the SP leader was “well- versed with sting operations”. He told me that he would go ahead with a camera in a separate car to 27, Lodhi Estate to record the entry and exist of the MPs at Shri Amar Singh’s residence. The two MPs and Suhail returned to Shri Argal’s residence at around 11am. Siddharth and his colleague Saif also returned separately. Shri Argal, Shri Kulaste and Suhail told me about the gist of their conversation with Shri Amar Singh: The SP leader received them warmly and told them that he had already “managed” the support of 275-285 MPs. However, he would pay them, and also Shri Bhagora, Rs. 3 crore each if they abstained from the trust vote. He asked them to carry with them a token amount of Rs. one crore, but the two MPs declined, saying that the money could be sent to Shri Argal’s house through an emissary. The remaining amount of Rs. 8 crore, Shri Amar Singh assured them, would be paid to them after the trust vote. He also promised to send the token amount with his assistant within 10-15 minutes. During their meeting, Shri Amar Singh phoned Shri Ahmed Patel and said, “I have three more Kamals (Lotuses) here.” He gave the phone to the two MPs to speak to Shri Patel. Within about 15 minutes, Suhail came into the adjoining room to inform me that an emissary of Shri Amar Singh, who identified himself as Sanjeev Saxena, had come with a token amount to be handed over to our MPs. He also mentioned that Saxena was accompanied by a young person in yellow shirt with long sleeves, adding that he (Suhail) had seen him both outside Shri Amar Singh’s gate and also inside. According to Suhail, this person, who carried the bag with an amount of Rs. 1 crore, appeared to be a member of Shri Amar Singh’s staff. The emissary’s conversation with the MPs in the drawing room could be heard in the listening device in the adjoining room. The emissary left after about 20 minutes. It was only after his departure that the CNN-IBN team and I entered the drawing room to see our MPs in an exuberant mood. They showed a bag containing an amount of Rs. 1 crore, in ten bundles of Rs. 10 lakh each. The CNN-IBN team filmed the serial numbers of the first and the last currency notes in the ten bundles. Shri Siddharth Gautam then interviewed with his regular camera the three MPs in the drawing room, with the amount of Rs. 1 crore displayed on the table. Although I was not in the room when the interview was being conducted, I could watch it by standing outside the door. Once the entire recording was over, the mood in the drawing hall turned celebratory. The CNN-IBN Team thanked the MPs, Suhail and me for our cooperation. We in turn thanked them for doing a higly professional job with commendable enthusiasm. I could make out from the triumphant mood of Shri Siddharth Gautam and his colleagues that they felt that they had achieved the biggest scoop of their careers, which was evident in Shri Siddharth Gautam’s own introduction to the promo that he shot with the bundles of cash and the three MPs in the background. In the intro he said, “For the first time in the history of Indian Parliament, CNN-IBN has captured on camera the proof of horse-trading of MPs...” Both at night and in the morning, Shri Siddharth Gautam was in regular touch with his seniors in the CNN-IBN headquarters. After consulting with them, he told me that the entire recording would be telecast “within 2-3 hours”. More specifically, he assured that the telecast would start within a few minutes of the MPs displaying the currency notes inside Parliament. The CNN-IBN team left Shri Argal’s house at around 12.30 pm. I asked Suhail to go Jaipur, his hometown, for a few days. After resting in Shri Argal’s house for some time, I left for Parliament to watch the trust-vote debate.

387 The information provided in this submission is factual, genuine and authentic. I believe that the truth about this murky scandal, which has lowered the prestige of the Indian Parliament, must be established on the basis of the abundant and irrefutable proof already available, and the guilty must be punished, through an impartial and though inquiry. Regards, Yours sincerely,

Sd/- (SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI) Postscript: After a long delay, CNN-IBN telecast the programme on the ‘Cash for Votes’ tapes on 11 August 2008. I would like to place on record my observation and belief that the channel has been less than truthful to its own investigation. It has concealed the truth about the involvement of Shri Amar Singh and Congress leaders in the scandal by suppressing important sections of the recorded material. For example, CNN-IBN has showed no clips of the meetings in Le Meridien Hotel, where Suhail had accompanied two BJP MPs to meet Shri Ahmed Patel. I wonder if it has submitted any tapes to the parliamentary committee about the Meridien part of the investigation. CNN-IBN’s original alibi for not telecasting the tapes was that its investigation was “incomplete”. It is strange that between July 22 and August 11, they never deemed it necessary to contact either me or my colleague Suhail Hindustani for any questions related to further investigation in the matter. Suhail has affirmed this to me. As submitted earlier in this letter, Suhail had told me that a person in yellow shirt who carried the amount of Rs. 1 crore, and accompanied Sanjeev Saxena to Shri Argal’s house, was also present at Shri Amar Singh’s house. He is clearly seen with Saxena in Shri Argal’s house in the programme telecast by CNN-IBN. He may perhaps be there on the tape submitted to the parliamentary committee, but the channel has not shown his presence near Shri Amar Singh’s house. If the tape actually shows his presence near Shri Amar Singh’s house, then it is an additional and crucial piece of evidence of Shri Amar Singh’s involvent in this scandal. His identity and role must be properly probed.

388 INDIAN EXPRESS Column 151: July 13, 2008 THINKING ALOUD SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI

FROM ‘LAL SALAAM’ TO ‘DALAL SALAAM’ SMS has many uses. In a politically charged atmosphere, such as the one that obtains in Delhi now, a wordsmith can use this tool to reach millions of people with his smart take on the events. Thus, an sms presently doing the rounds says: “From Lal Salaam to Dalal Salaam, what a fall for Sonia Gandhi and Dr. Manmohan Singh”. It’s an apt commentary on the thoroughly opportunist manner in which the Congress president and the Prime Minister have attempted to save the Indo-US nuclear deal and also save their government. They might succeed, but at what cost to the nation, to the Congress party and to the political culture in India? The arrangement between the Congress and the Left had a certain political and moral Legitimacy. The people’s verdict in the last parliamentary elections was clearly against the NDA government. Hence, it was legitimate on the part of the Congress, which had emerged as the largest single party, to stake claim to form the government by creating a post-poll alliance. The Left parties chose to stay out of the UPA government but pledged their support to it on the basis of a mutually agreed common minimum programme (CMP). Hence came into being a stable government headed by Dr. Singh. Why did this government become unstable? The answer to these questions lies in the arrogant mindset of the Congress leadership. The country may have well and truly moved into the coalition era, but the Congress, which ran only one-party governments from Nehru to Narasimha Rao, continued to behave as if Dr. Singh’s government was essentially a Congress government that could do all that it wanted. It forgot that it had less than 150 MPs in a House of 545, that even the UPA had no majority, that it headed what was essentially a minority coalition government that could claim to have the backing of more than 272 MPs only because of the outside support lent by the Left, and, finally, that the sole basis of the Left’s support was the CMP. And the CMP had not a word about the Indo-US nuclear deal. Nevertheless, the Sonia-Singh duo made the nuclear deal the most important priority for the UPA government. When the Left objected, the Congress leadership resorted to the tactic of buying time by forming the UPA-Left Committee under Pranab Mukherji’s chairmanship. Whereas the Congress leadership’s conduct in the committee was dilatory, Prakash Karat and his comrades approached deliberations in the committee’s nine meetings between September 2007 and June 2008 with utmost seriousness. This can be seen in the excellent 203-page document that they released on Thursday, containing all the well-researched notes they exchanged with Pranabbabu and his colleagues. If the Left had wanted, it could have withdrawn support to Dr. Singh’s government a year ago, or in the course of the many deadlocked meetings of the committee. But it believed in the Prime Minister who had solemnly committed himself to “taking into account the findings of the committee before operationalisation of the nuclear deal”.

389 That solemn commitment was thrown to the winds, the moment the Congress was ready to ditch the Left and hitch its wagon to the Samajwadi Party with a cynical and sly deal. Whereas the communist support to the UPA Government was legitimate, there is neither moral nor political legitimacy in the Congress-SP alliance. The unequivocal criticism of the nuclear deal by SP leaders inside Parliament, and the distasteful language they had used to attack the Congress leadership outside Parliament, are not hidden from anybody. Only a weak, visionless and desperate leadership of the Congress could have taken this short-cut to survival. Democracy, however, is not only a numbers game. Its heart and soul lie in how honestly and transparently political leaders relate to the people and conduct amongst themselves. One never expected the Congress president to show her allegiance to the higher values of democracy. However, going by the Prime Minister’s conduct in the past week, I must painfully record that he too believes democracy to be merely an arithmetic exercise in which the support of requisite number of MPs can be secured through private deals enforced through institutional molestation. Dr. Singh has lost his credibility also because of the indecent haste with which his government approached the IAEA before proving its majority in Parliament. In doing so, it even violated a public commitment made by the foreign minister, who claimed that he was making that commitment after telephonically speaking to the Prime Minister, who was then in Japan. Dr. Singh’s haste has shown that he is more insterested in meeting the deadlines set by the political process in America, and more keen on fulfilling his commitment to George Bush, than in behaving in a trustworthy manner with the people of India. “Deceitful” is too strong a word to be used in democratic discourse. But it’s quite a feat that Dr. Singh’s government earned this epithet from both the BJP and the Left when it first suppressed the draft safeguards agreement with the IAEA by calling it a “classified document” and, after it appeared on American websites on the Internet, embarrassedly made it public in India. The PM should know that lies and Legitimacy cannot go together.

390 INDIAN EXPRESS Column 152: July 20, 2008

THINKING ALOUD SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI

POLLUTING PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY

When the commits himself to something publicly, in our out of Parliament, the nation expects him to abide by it. Let us therefore see how Dr. Manmohan Singh has fared on the principle of ’prime ministerial accountability’.

Speaking about the Indo-US nuclear deal in the Lok Sabha on 29 July 2005, the PM had said: “We shall undertake the same responsibilities and obligations as the United States. We expect the same rights and benefits as the US...India will never accept discrimination”. This assurance stands flouted in the draft safeguards agreement between India and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). The draft does not recognize India as a Nuclear Weapons State on par with, and having the same rights and obligations as, USA, Russia, Britain, France and China. In other words, India, with its strategic autonomy compromised, would have an inferior status in the global nuclear order in perpetuity.

Here is another broken assurance. On 20 July 2005, two days after he and American President George Bush issued a joint statement on the nuclear deal, Dr. Singh addressed a press conference in Washington. “Mr. Prime Minister,” a reporter asked, “will you seek a parliamentary consensus or approval to the new direction you seem to be taking in foreign policy”. The PM replied as a PM should. “Well, the Parliament in our country is sovereign” he said. “it goes without saying that we can move forward only on the basis of a broad national consensus.”

Today can any sane person claim that there is “a broad national consensus” in the country justifying the PM’s decision to go ahead with the deal the resistance from his erstwhile Left allies and the BJP began as soon as the joint statement was issued. How a manipulative PM betrayed the Left, forcing it to withdraw support to the UPA government on July 8, is well known. Equally well known is how he violated the public commitment given by his own foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, that the government would go to the IAEA only after securing the vote of confidence in Parliament. But the nation must be alerted against a new conspiracy afoot to commit another betrayal. The Telegraph of carried a front-page report on 15 July titled: “Sink or survive, deal done”. Quoting highly placed official sources, it said: “The nuclear deal is ‘done’, whether the UPAA survives the trust vote or not. The deal will happen because the government is clear that it is in the supreme national interest. If the government has to go in the process, let it go.” An official source put it even more arrogantly: “As far as India is concerned, the deal has fled our shores. And India does not have an extradition treaty with Austria (its capital Vienna is the headquarters of the IAEA) to bring it back”. The very next day, Rahul Gandhi tacitly endorsed this report, which has not been contradicted by the Government yet. “The nuclear deal is more important than the Government. If the Government falls while acting in the national interest, so be it.” In other words, as far as the PM and the Congress leadership are concerned, the deal is now a fait accompli. The trust vote is irrelevant vis-a-vis the fate of the deal.

391 Consider the enormity of the fraud being committed on the people and . In July 2005, the PM had said, “Parliament in our country is sovereign.” In July 2008, he is in effect saying, “The verdict of Parliament does not matter. I am accountable to President Bush, not to the Indian Parliament.” How Dr. Singh has viewed a deal between two sovereign nations through the prism of his personal relationship with George Bush—a relationship in which he sees himself as a junior partner—is evident from the dialogue between the two in Japan, on the sidelines of the G-8 summit earlier this month. After Bush congratulated him “on your leadership at home.” he said, “I’m very happy to report to the President that our relations have moved forward handsomely since our first meting in July 2005.” Notice the words “I’m very happy to report to the President...” Is the Prime Minister of any self-respecting democratic nation expected to “report” the President of America? Would Dr. Singh care to report to India’s Parliament, when it meets tomorrow and day after for a special session to determine the fate of his government, what assurance he gave to Bush in Japan. We do not know what is going to happen in the Lok Sabha on July 22. However, one thing is widely known. Dr. Singh’s Government, unsure of its survival, has been desperately trying to stitch together a majority by in indulging in the worst kind of horse-trading New Delhi has seen, thereby setting a dangerous precedent in national politics. In his obsession to secure the nuclear deal at any cost, the “incorruptible” PM has blessed dozens of corrupt deals—to ensnare independent MPs and smaller parties, to poach bigger parties, to get criminal MPs out of jail, to pollute parliamentary democracy, in short, to mock the Republic of India. The apolitical PM, who has never won a Lok Sabha election, may not care, but his party should know that there is a heavy price to be paid for his wrongdoings in the next parliamentary election, whenever they are held.

392 INDIAN EXPRESS Column 153: July 27, 2008 THINKING ALOUD SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI ‘WHERE IS THE PROOF?’ ASKED THE PM Polluting Parliamentary Democracy. That was the title of my column last week, in which I had written: “We do not know what is going to happen in the Lok Sabha on July 22. However, one thing is widely known. Dr. Manmohan Singh’s Government, unsure of its survival, has been desperately trying to stitch together a majority by in indulging in the worst kind of horse-trading New Delhi has seen. In his obsession to secure the nuclear deal at any cost. the ‘incorruptible’ PM has blessed dozens of corrupt deals”. We now know what happened on July 22. The UPA Government won a slender victory. But the entire world came to know how the trust vote was won. It is instructive to recall that a former Prime Minister, P.V. Narasimha Rao, was convicted in a trial court on charges of bribing a few MPs of the Jharkhand Mukti Morcha in a bid to convert his minority government into a majority government in the no-confidence motion he faced in 1993. What happened in 2008 is a cash-for- votes scam bigger than the JMM scandal by a monstrous order of magnitude. In the run-up to the vote on July 22, the whistle about horse-trading was being blown by several NDA and non-NDA opposition leaders. The nation was stunned when CPI leader A.B. Bardhan said that the “ongoing rate” for purchasing the loyalty of a non-UPA MP was Rs. 25 crore. A perceptive cartoon in the Hindu showed how a government promising nuclear power for every Indian home had stooped to using “horse power” to save itself. In the run-up to the trust vote, media and political circles were abuzz with reports of how many and which MPs belonging to the BJP, Shiv Sena, BLD, Akali Dal, JD(S), TDP and other non- UPA parties would switch sides. Senior leaders of the Congress and Samajwadi Party were openly making claims to this effect. One SP leader, after parading a BJP defector before the media, boastfully said, “We have opened the first card. When we will open our other cards on July 22, many will be taken aback.” Several opposition parties were indeed taken aback, most of all the BJP, by the number of turncoat MPs in their ranks. When one opposition MP after another fired accusations of horse-trading in the trust vote debate, the Prime Minister weakly asked, “Where is the proof?. Silence would have been a safer option for him, for he certainly could not have been unaware of what the wheelers and dealers were doing. The “proof” came in a dramatic manner in the closing hours of the debate. Three BJP MPs—Ashok Argal, Mahavir Bhagora and Faggan Singh Kulaste—displayed inside the House bundles or currency notes, allegedly paid to them by a top SP leader as a token amount of one crore ruppes for abstaining from the trust vote. In normal circumstances, their unparliamentary act would have invited severe punishment from the Chair. But they have claimed to have acted as whistle-blowers to expose the ‘votes-for-notes’ conspiracy to save the Dr. Manmohan Singh‘s Government. A reputed TV news channel conducted a sting operation to record the MPs’ whistle-blowing operation. The MPs, who have already given a graphic account of the alleged bribery trail in their petition to the Speakers, also claim that the channel had assured them about the telecast of the recorded tape “soon”. Why the channel failed to do so has raised serious questions about its journalistic ethics. Certainly, no news channel conducts a sting operation about horse-trading for 393 the edification of the Speaker! Or was its decision not to telecast the programme before the trust vote also a part of the plan to save Dr. Singh’s Government by fair or foul means?. In the absence of the tape being telecast, legitimate doubts have been raised in the minds of ordinary people about the authenticity of the BJP MPs charges. The BJP must do everything to establish its credibility in the matter. On the other hand, public pressure is mounting on the channel to telecast the tape in an un-doctored form. After all, in this age of RTI, the people have a right to know what exactly happened in this most sensational political scandal. The onus has now shifted to the Speaker to conduct a speedy and impartial inquiry and punish the guilty. The alacrity with which Somnath Chatterjee disqualified as many as 11 MPs for their role in the “cash-for-question” scandal in 2005, exposed by another sting operation by the media, would certainly become a benchmark to judge his conduct in probing the far more serious “cash- for-votes” scandal. If the Speaker’s probe proves the whistle-blowers’ charges in respect of the alleged mastermind of the bribery scandal, in what light will that outcome cast the victory of Dr. Manmohan Singh’s Government? The Prime Minister will have no option but to step down by accepting moral responsibility for the fainted votes that ensured his survival in office. Therefore, isn’t it all the more important that the Speaker conduct his probe fairly and complete it expeditiously? Failure to do so would make India look increasingly like a banana republic. Only strong pressure from all democracy-loving Indians can prevent this tragedy.

394 INDIAN EXPRESS Column 154: August 3, 2008 THINKING ALOUD SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI PARLIAMENT ON SALE If there is a next time and a coalition government whose survival hangs by a thread, do not be surprised if New Delhi becomes a bigger bazaar of horses than it was when Dr. Manmohan Singh won the vote of confidence on July 22. The price of horses will be far higher than the unbelievable benchmark set by the managers of the UPA’s victory last week. CPI leader A.B. Bardhan had disclosed that Rs. 25 crore was the “ongoing rate” for each opposition MP being purchased by the UPA. Getting moneybags to provide Rs. 1,000-2,000 crore for buying up MPs is no longer beyond the realm of possibility. Corporate houses wanting to protect or promote their business interests will open up their war chests to be used by their paaltu (Kept) politicians. There will be wheeler-dealers galore, from small-time fixers to big-time racketeers, some with dubious international connections. In short, the mandate of the people at the time of polling will have no bearing on the kind of government that might come into being with the help of defections, both wholesale and retail. In other words, Indian Parliament will be on Sale from now onwards. Those who disbelieve should see what happened in Parliament on July 22. Three BJP MPs— Ashok Argal, Mahavir Bhagora and Faggan Singh Kulaste—displayed inside the House wads of currency notes, allegedly paid to them by Amar Singh, General Secretary of the Samajwadi Party, as a token amount of one crore rupees for abstaining from the trust vote. In a petition submitted to the Speaker, Somnath Chatterjee, they have claimed that they acted as whistle-blowers to expose the ‘votes-for-notes’ conspiracy to save Dr. Manmohan Singh’s Government. They have also claimed that CNN-IBN, a TV news channel, conducted a sting operation to record their whistle-blowing operation and also promised to telecast the recorded tape “soon” after the display of currency notes inside Parliament. The channel has not telecast the tape till today. Instead, it has chosen to hand over the tape to the Speaker, who has constituted a committee to probe the MPs’ complaint against Amar Singh, Ahmed Patel, political secretary to the Congress president, and one more MP. Who is telling the truth?. The three BJP MPs or Amar Singh, who has denied the allegations? This columnist seeks the indulgence the editor of this newspaper to make an important disclosure: as a political activist determined to fight corruption in public life, I assisted the three BJP MPs in their whistle-blowing operation. I was a witness to most of what they have stated in their petition to the Speaker and vouch for its authenticity. I was with the CNN-IBN team almost from the beginning to the end of its sting operation and have witnessed its recording of the operation. I have no hesitation in affirming that the channel has double-crossed the whistle-blowers by flouting its own solemn assurance to telecast the tape before the trust-vote was taken on July 22. I am willing to depose before the inquiry committee and ready to face any punishment if found guilty. However, the probe of the specific complaint by the three BJP MPs is a side issue. The real issue is that the outcome of July 22 has convinced ordinary people in India that horse-trading was responsible for saving the UPA government, and that it could well become a permanent feature of politics at the Centre. What could be the consequences of this mass perception? Won’t it make more and more people cynical about politics and politicians? Won’t it make even those

395 political parties, such as the BJP which speaks of probity in public life, susceptible to thinking that the only way to beat the wheeler-dealers of a rival party is to have smarter and more resourceful wheeler-dealers of their own? What will happen to our democracy if most political parties come under the vice-like grip of wheeler-dealers and corrupt leaders, who in turn function as per the scripts prepared by their masters? Last week’s developments have forewarned us about an even more ominous portent—the possibility of naxalism coming to our towns and cities. As an extremist political opinion, it openly rejects the system of parliamentary democracy, calls it sham and has pledged to overthrow it by violent means. About 100-odd districts in India are already said to be under considerable naxal influence. Is there any wonder if, in the aftermath of the “cash-for-votes” scandal in New Delhi, naxal groups increase their influence to 200-odd districts, including our main urban centres? Once the institutions of democracy lose their sanctivity and legitimacy in the eyes of the people, the descent to anarchy can be very quick. Make no mistake about what naxal groups will tell our angry and frustrated youth: “Look at the dirty games these political parties play in the name of democracy. How can you trust them to work for you? What is the value of your ballot when those who get elected with your votes are up for sale to the highest bidder? Therefore, shun the path of the ballot and join our path of the bullet.” Difficult days are ahead for Indian democracy. Therefore, the time to act for you, me and all democracy-loving people, is NOW.

396 INDIAN EXPRESS Column 155: August 10, 2008 THINKING ALOUD SUDHEENDRA KULKARNI SOLZHENITSYN, LIES AND VIDEOTAPE Last Sunday, the world lost one of its best-known literary figures when Aleksander Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel laureate Russian writer, died in Moscow. In the second half of the 20th century, he attracted worldwide attention for exposing the cruel crushing of human freedom and dignity on a massive scale under Stalin’s communist dictatorship. His works, most notably One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich and Gulag Arechipelago, were inspired by his own experience in Soviet prison camps. Solzhenitsyn did not match the literary greatness of the giants of Russian literature— Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Chekhov and others—who plumbed deeper depths of the human drama than he did. Nevertheless, in an era marked by the Cold War hostilities between USA and the erstwhile USSR, he attained aniconic status in the West as the authentic voice of anti-communism. The West soon discovered that he was a complex personality. During his life in exile in the US, he was disillusioned by seeing the moral decay and spiritual emptiness of the media-dominated Western society, and wrote, “…the human soul longs for things higher, warmer, and purer than those offered by television and rock music.” After his return to Russia in 1994, he emerged as a staunch Russian nationalist and admirer of Putin. In the outpouring of homage to Solzhenitsyn last week, one thought of his stood out. He wrote that while ordinary men were obliged ‘not to participate in lies’, artists and writers had a greater responsibility. “It is within the power of writers and artists to do much more: to defeat the lie!” The Soviet communism’s claim that it was the best system for mankind was a lie, and many courageous novelists, poets, filmmakers, singers, and philosophers and others contributed to defeating this lie. The power of Solzhenitsyn’s thought gripped my mind. I wondered: “Is it the responsibility of only artists and writers to defeat the lie? What about journalists and columnists? Aren’t we, too, writers in a way? Since journalism now encompasses TV journalism, don’t TV reporters, cameramen, producers, editors and owners of TV channels also have the same responsibility? And what about the responsibility of political activists, leaders, parliamentarians, ministers and the Prime Minister? Aren’t they obliged to do more than what is expected of ordinary citizens? Or at least as much as what Solzhenitsyn expected from ordinary citizens—namely, not to participate in lies?” For any thought to implant itself, it needs a context. For me, the context was when Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh audaciously asked “Where is the proof?” in the course of the confidence motion debate in the Lok Sabha in response to the opposition leaders’ grave charge that his Government was indulging in large-scale horse-trading in order to save itself. The PM’s poser lent itself to only one of the two conclusions—either he was convinced that the Congress and Samajwadi Party leaders were not engaged in any horse-trading at all; or he believed that no truth could emerge to validate the charge of bribing non-UPA MPs. The first conclusion means that the Singh who became king on July 22 did not know what was happening in his kingdom. The second conclusion would lead any fair-minded to ask: “Is the PM fulfilling even the ordinary citizen’s responsibility of not participating in a lie?”

397 In my last week’s column I had mentioned that I was an eye-witness and facilitator in the whistle-blowing operation, conducted by three BJP MPs in callaboration with a reputed TV channel, to expose the “cash-for-votes” scam. The channel stands accused of having double- crossed the whistle-blowers by not telecasting the scam-busting tape. The allegations against senior Congress and Samajwadi Party leaders, which they claim are a lie, are now being probed by a committee constituted by the Lok Sabha Speaker, who received the tape from the channel after a mysterious delay of over 24 hours. I happen to have watched the tape and affirm with full responsibility that it has been tampered with, insofar as it does not include everything of what was recorded during the whistle-blowing operation. A crucial interview with the three MPs, which the channel’s reporter conducted, is missing. Thus, far from the fulfillment of responsibility to “defeat the lie”, here is a case of an attempt to derail the truth! In any event, the amount of evidence already submitted to the committee, including what is available on tape, is so incontrovertible as to constitute a reasonably sufficient answer to the question that the PM posed in Parliament—“Where is the proof?” And since the PM is the ultimate beneficiary of this scandal, he will definitely be answerable to the nation if there is a fair investigation. The “cash-for-votes” scam is a blot on Indian democracy. It should not be dismissed as yet another instance of one party trying to blacken the face of another party, nor allowed to die a natural death through the conspiracy of endless delay in its probe. The growing dependence on money power is destroying the soul of our democracy, and all political parties, to a lesser or greater extent, are to blame for this malaise. Let us not delude ourselves into thinking that democracy and human freedom are triumphant and safe after the decline of communist dictatorship, whose ravages were exposed by writers like Solzhenitsyn. The combination of money power and the proclivity of political leaders to save themselves by devaluing democratic institution (in this case, the Indian Parliament) would gradually create an atmosphere of cynicism (“sab partiyan chor hain”) lawlessness (“upar baithe huye neta log galat kaam karte hain, to hum bhi kyon na karen?”) and anarchy (“bullet, and not ballot is the answer). Indian democracy’s downslide can be halted at least partially if the probe committee does its job impartially and conscientiously and punishes the guilty. (Write to :[email protected])

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399 APPENDIX X (Please see Para 64 of the Report)

SUHAIL HINDUSTANI 213 A, MS Flats Quarters Opposite R.M.L. Hospital Baba Kharak Singh Marg New Delhi-110 001 12 August 2008 To, The Honourable Speaker Lok Sabha New Delhi

Subject: Witness statement in the ‘Cash-for-Votes’ scandal in Parliament on July 22, 2008 involving Shri Amar Singhji, General Secretary of the Samajwadi Party, Shri Ahmed Patelji, Political Secretary to the Congress President and Shri Rewati Raman Singhji, MP and Samajwadi Party leader.

Honourable Sir, I am submitting this statement to your Honourable Self as a witness in the recent “Cash-for- Vote” scandal that rocked Parliament on July 22, 2008. All the information contained in this statement is based on Truth and nothing but Truth and I say this by invoking the name of Allah or God Almighty. My life is in threat, but I am ready to sacrifice my life for the Truth contained in this statement. My only wish is that my body may be buried near the Jama Masjid adjoining Parliament. Let me introduce myself as a devoted Muslim and a patriotic Indian. My original name was Suhail Ahmed, which I later changed to Suhail Hindustani. I am a small-scale trader of gems and jewellery. I had a shop (Bobby Emporium, Shop No. 6) in the shopping arcade of Janpath Hotel in New Delhi, which was closed down in April 2008. I hail from Jaipur. My parents and other members of my family live in Jaipur. For the past nearly 15 years, I am also active as an ordinary social and political worker of the BJP. For many years I was a karyakarta in the be BJP’s Yuva Morcha and have worked closely with Shri Shahnawaz Hussainji, MP, when he was a minister in Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayeeji’s Government. My family in Rajasthan has a long association with the BJP and the Jana Sangh. My grandfather was indeed known as Shri Sageer Mian ‘Janasanghi’ Peeli Topiwale, who worked in Tonk and Ajmer Sherif. I have lived most of my life in Delhi in the official residence of some MP or the other. Besides my business, I do small errands and liaisoning work for MPs belonging to various parties. This, combined with the fact that I move around mostly in North Avenue and South Avenue, has enabled me to develop close acquaintances with people in various political parties and also with

400 some in business circles. As a result, I have acquired good ground-level knowledge of the political developments in the corridors of power. In early July, after the communist parties withdrew support to the UPA Government, the “market” (as the place for political wheeling-dealings is called) was abuzz with talk that opposition MPs would be offered huge amounts as bribes to either vote for the Government or abstain from voting. Some of the middlemen contacted me to find out if I knew any “plots” (codeword for MPs willing to cross-over for a consideration). I would ask them how much “paper” (codeword for the bribe amount) was on offer. Their reply—namely, that the amount was in the neighbourhood of Rs. 20-25 crore—took me by surprise. I had been closely following the debate on the nuclear deal. From what I understood of the issue, I came to the conclusion that it was not in India’s interests and that it was a sell-out to America. In particular, I was well aware of the strongly critical sentiments about the nuclear deal, and about the US President George Bush, that prevailed in my (Muslim) community. I was therefore angry that, in its bid to go ahead with the nuclear deal, the UPA Government was indulging in horse-trading in order to save itself in the trust vote. Around this time, I came to know from the “market” that a large number (over 15) of BJP and NDA MPs were being targeted by Shri Ahmed Patelji, Shri Amar Singhji and other leaders of the Congress and Samajwadi Party. I felt that the victory of Dr. Manmohan Singhji’s Government through defections from the BJP was neither good for the country nor good for the Party I support. On July 17, I left for Bangalore by an Air Deccan flight for three days on some personal work. I returned to Delhi on July 20 by a morning Air Deccan flight and booked a room (no. 307) in the India Islamic Centre to conduct my operations from there. I contacted Shri S.P. Guptaji, an IAS officer of Haryana cadre who works closely with Shri Bhupinder Singh Hoodaji, Chief Minister of Haryana. He is the chief administrator of the Housing Board of Haryana. He was with me for over an hour at the coffee shop of the India Islamic Centre. He took the list of MPs from me and said, “I don’t want any money in this deal. But if your list of MPs is pucca, I will take you to meet Shri Hoodaji and Shri Ahmed Patelji, who will discuss the deal with you.” While I was at the India Islamic Centre, a mushaira was being organised in the evening at the centre’s auditorium. I met Shri Uday Pratap Singhji, a Samajwadi Party MP, (also known as ‘Guruji’, since he is known as the Guru of Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav) outside the auditorium. I have great regard for him as an elderly politician who is wise and experienced. I told him that I had a list of opposition MPs who could be approached to support the Government, and added, “Mera kuchh kaam kar do, Guruji”, (Guruji, please do me a favour). When I gave him the list, he told me that this work was being handled by Shri Amar Singhji and that I should contact him through Shri Rewati Raman Singhji. Shri Uday Pratap Singhji took my number and said that Shri Reoti Raman Singhji would call me on my mobile. It was at this time that I decided to do something big in life to expose the scandal of bribing MPs by pretending to act as a middleman. On July 21, at around 11.30 a.m., I phoned Shri Sudheendra Kulkarniji, a senior BJP activist who was OSD in the PMO when Shri Vajpayeeji was the Prime Minister. (His mobile number is 98109 33222). I have considerable respect for him due to my acquaintance with him when he used to live in the party full-timers’ rooms in the BJP headquarters at 11 Ashoka Road. He now

401 works with Shri Advaniji. Therefore, I felt that he was the right person for me to convey the message that over a dozen BJP MPs were being approached by Congress-SP leaders. Shri Kulkarniji took the names of BJP MPs from me and called me back in an hour’s time to say that he wanted me to meet him as soon as possible. In the afternoon, at around 1.30 pm, Shri Guptaji phoned me and asked me to meet him at Claridges Hotel. He promised to arrange meeting with Shri Ahmed Patelji. As we were having soup in the restaurant, two persons come to meet us—Shri Lovely Singh (son of Shri Buta Singhji, former Home Minister and Governor of Bihar) and Shri Aman Arora, who was introduced as Shri Lovely Singh’s friend. They came in a black-coloured Honda CRB car. They asked me about the list of “Plots” (MPs) I had and questioned me about my contacts in the BJP. Shri Guptaji, prepared the list as per the names mentioned by me. Soon thereafter, Shri Lovely Singh put a call through to Shri Ahmed Patelji from his mobile and gave it to me to speak to him. Shri Patelji asked me to come to his house at 23 Willingdon Crescent at 7.30 pm along with my “Plots”. When I asked Shri Lovely Singh and Shri Aman Arora about their mobile number, both of them gave, strangely, the same number: 9899909990. Thereafter, I met Shri Kulkarniji and I gave him all the information I had. After posing many searching questions to me, he asked me, “What is your motive in giving this information to me”? Since I am from Rajasthan, I said, “I want to be Maharana Pratap, and not Mansingh. Raja Mansingh accepted the Mughal rule and, therefore, very few people in Rajasthan honour him today. In contrast, Maharana Pratap wandered in jungles, slept on the floor and ate rotis made of grass but did not surrender his self-respect before the Mughals. Therefore, tens of thousands of people gather every year to pay homage to him on his birth anniversary. I have seen this contrast with my own eyes.” I told Shri Kulkarniji that I recalled these contrasting images when I was faced with two diametrically opposite options: either to pocket a few crore rupees by betraying the country and acting as a dalal in the horse-trading of MPs, or to show courage and earn the blessings of Allah.” My words increased the trust and confidence that Shri Kulkarniji had developed in me. He then asked me if I would facilitate the whistle-blowing operation by a few BJP MPs to expose the bribery scandal. I readily and enthusiastically agreed. He asked me, “Aap ki pahunch kahan tak hai?” (How high-level are your contacts?). I offered to take the MPs to Shri Ahmed Patelji and Shri Amar Singhji. I told him that I had come to know from my contacts in the “market” that both were active in settling deals with non-UPA MPs willing to defy their respective party whips and support the Government. Late in the afternoon of July 21, Shri Kulkarniji introduced me to three BJP Members of Parliament (Lok Sabha)—Shri Ashok Argalji, Shri Mahavir Bhagoraji and Shri Faggan Singh Kulasteji. Shri Kulkarni also told me that a team from CNN-IBN was coming soon to work closely with the three MPs, record their whistle-blowing operation and telecast it. My contacts in the Congress and SP circles were excited when I told them that three BJP MPs were willing to cross over. As mentioned earlier, Shri Lovely Singh had arranged my meeting with Shri Ahmed Patelji at 7.30 pm at the latter residence on Willingdon Crescent. Since the CNN-IBN team had not yet arrived, I requested for the meeting to be rescheduled. I was then informed that I could bring the MPs to meet Shri Ahmed Patelji to Le Meridien Hotel. The CNN-IBN team, comprising Shri Siddharth Gautam, reporter, and Shri Sudesh, cameraman, arrived at Shri Kulkarniji’s residence at around 10.00 pm. They fitted hidden cameras behind the

402 shirts worn by Shri Kulasteji and Shri Bhagoraji, after which I took them to Meridien Hotel at around 11.00 pm. All three of us were driving in Shri Kulasteji’s vehicle bearing the MP’s label. Shri Argalji stayed behind at Shri Kulkarniji’s residence. Upon reaching the hotel, Shri Lovely Singh told me that Shri Ahmed Patelji had left about 10 minutes earlier after having waited for the BJP MPs for quite some time. There were many Congress leaders in the lobby of the Hotel and the atmosphere was that of a ‘Ghodon ki Mandi’ (horses’ market). I am constrained to state here that, in CNN-IBN’s August 11 telecast of its sting operation on the ‘Cash-for-Votes’ scandal, the channel hid the information from its viewers that the visit to Meridien Hotel was to meet Shri Ahmed Patelji. The channel also showed no clips of the Congress leaders whom the two BJP MPs and I met in the hotel lobby. From Meridien, we drove back to the residence of Shri Ashok Argalji at 4 Ferozeshah Road. Apart from Shri Argalji and Shri Kulkarniji, I met two other persons from CNN-IBN there. One was Shri Saif Kidwai, who introduced himself as a producer, and a colleague of his whose name I do not know. Shri Siddharth Gautam of CNN-IBN told us that instead of going out to meet anybody with hidden cameras, it was better to invite the person to a safe room since the quality of recording would be much better. Accordingly, his team fitted cameras behind curtains in the drawing room in Shri Argalji’s house, and a listening device in an adjoining room. After our failure to meet Shri Ahmed Patelji, I focused my efforts on meeting Shri Amar Singhji. When I contacted Shri Rewati Raman Singhji at his residence (telephone no: 2378 2233) from my mobile (no. 9999996060), he agreed to meet the three BJP MPs at Shri Argalji’s house. Shri Rewati Raman Singhji came at around 12.30. I introduced him to the three MPs. He told them that their interests would be taken care of if they agreed to support the Government. The MPs asked him how much they would be paid. He replied that the amount would be decided by Shri Amar Singhji and promised to take them to meet the SP leader. This entire meeting and conversation has been recorded by the CNN-IBN team on their hidden cameras. During this meeting, I was partly inside Shri Argalji’s drawing room and partly in the adjoining room where Shri Siddharth Gautam, Shri Saif Kidwai, Shri Sudesh and the fourth member from the CNN-IBN team were listening to the conversation in the drawing room. Shri Kulkarniji was also present in the adjoining room. Since it was late in the night, the MPs refused to go to Shri Amar Singhji’s house. However, Shri Rewati Raman Singhji phoned me the next morning, on July 22, and said that Shri Amar Singhji was waiting for the MPs at his residence (27, Lodhi Estate). Accordingly, I accompanied two MPs—Shri Argalji and Shri Kulasteji—to Shri Amar Singhji’s residence. I was wearing green half-trousers and a white t-shirt. Shri Baghoraji stayed behind at 4, Ferozshah Road. This was around 10 am. We drove in a white Maruti Zen (DL 5CC 7218). My friend Hashmat Ali was driving the car. I was sitting on the front seat next to the driver’s. Shri Argalji and Shri Kulasteji were sitting on the back seats. Shri Siddharth Gautam told us that he would travel ahead of us in a CNN-IBN car and capture on his camera our entry into, and exit out of Shri Amar Singhji’s house. Shri Amar Singhji welcomed the three of us warmly and treated us to dates and dry grapes. He was wearing white pyjama and a kurta of sky-blue colour. Thanking me for bringing the two MPs to meet him, he claimed that he had already “managed” the support of 275-285 MPs to ensure the survival of the UPA Government. Nevertheless, since Shri Rewati Raman Singhji had

403 arranged the meeting, he would pay Rs. 3 crore to each MP if they abstained from the trust vote. At this point, Shri Argalji and Shri Kulasteji mentioned to him that they had one more BJP MP willing to abstain. Shri Amar Singhji told them that he would pay the same amount to Shri Bhagoraji.

After this, Shri Amar Singhji spoke to somebody and informed that person that three more BJP MPs had agreed to abstain from voting. Once the conversation was over, he told us, “Aap ke baare mein main ne PM ko bata diya hai”. (I have informed the PM about you.) He then phoned Shri Ahmed Patelji from his mobile and said, “I have three more Kamals (Lotuses) here”. He made the two MPs speak to Shri Ahmed Patelji. From the conversation I could make out that Shri Amar Singhji and Shri Ahmed Patelji were working in a coordinated manner.

Shri Amar Singhji offered to pay the MPs a token amount of Rs. one crore and asked them to carry it with them. Shri Argalji and Shri Kulasteji said, “Hum nahin le jayenge. Bahar mediawalen khade hain.” (We won’t take it with us since mediapersons are standing outside your house). Shri Amar Singhji then promised to send the amount with his assistant, Shri Sanjeev Saxena, within 10-15 minutes. The remaining amount of Rs. 8 crore, he assured them, would be paid to them after the trust vote.

As we were coming out of his drawing room, I told Shri Amar Singhji, “Thakur Sahab, aap Thakur ho kar Marwadi ki tarah baat karte ho. Teen karod to bahut kum rakam hai”. (Thakur Sahab, being a Thakur you are talking like a Marwadi. Three crores is too small an amount). He smiled at me and said, “Aap der se aaye. Raat ko MPs ko le aate to Ahmedbhai bhi yahein pe the”. (You came late. If you had brought the MPs last night, Ahmed Patel was also here and they would have met him.“I then asked him”, Thakur Sahab, mera kya hoga?” (What about my share?) He said, “Aap ka saamaan hum ne Golf Course mein rakha hai. Vahan jaa ke utha lena”. (Your amount is kept at Golf Course. Pick it up from there).

While entering Shri Amar Singh’s house, I had seen Shri Siddharth Gautam and his colleague Shri Saif Kidwai. Also present were reporters and cameramen from several other TV channels. While I was inside Shri Amar Singhji’s drawing room, Shri Siddharth Gautam (his mobile no. is 98996 92321) phoned me on my mobile (9999996060) and said. “Please tell me what time you are leaving Shri Amar Singh’s house, so that I’ll be ready to shoot your car coming out of the house. I want to tell you that a lot of other mediapersons are also standing here.” This can be checked from my mobile call records and those of Shri Siddharth Gautam. We left Shri Amar Singh’s house at 10.48 am.

We left Shri Amar Singhji’s house to return to Shri Argal’s house at around 10.30 a.m. Within 15 minutes, his assistant Shri Sanjeev Saxena, accompanied by a well-built person, arrived at 4, Ferozeshah Road in a white Gypsy car No. DL-3C-S-8562. The number was noted by a member of Shri Argalji’s staff. Before ushering Shri Saxena and his colleague (who was carrying two pistols hidden behind his clothes) into the drawing room, I told him, “Meri Shri Amar Singhji se baat karao, yeh maal bahut kum hai. Hum is par sauda nahin karenge.” (Make me speak to Shri Amar Singhji, because this amount is too small. We’ll not do the deal at this rate.”) Shri Saxena put the call through to Shri Amar Singhji, who told me that he would double the rate of Rs. 6 crore per MP. “If this is acceptable the deal is on. Otherwise, I’ll ask my man to return immediately.”

I replied that the deal was acceptable. However, I did not have the time to communicate this part of the conversation with Shri Amar Singhji (about the rate being hiked from Rs. 3 crore to

404 Rs. 6 crore) to the three MPs (who were inside the drawing room) as the next stage of the operation took place swiftly. I then ushered Shri Saxena and his colleague into the drawing room in Shri Argal’s house, which had already been bugged by the CNN-IBN team with hidden cameras. His colleague was wearing a yellow-coloured shirt with long sleeves. I had seen this person, who looked like a security guard, at Shri Amar Singh’s house. He was carrying a small revolver hidden beneath his shirt. Shri Saxena had carried the money in a dark green bag and removed ten bundles of Rs. 10 lakhs each, most of it in currency notes of Rs. 1000, and placed them on a table. After this, Shri Argalji introduced Shri Bhagoraji to Shri Saxena as the third MP. Shri Bhagoraji wanted to speak to Shri Amar Singhji for direct confirmation of the remaining amount to be paid. Shri Saxena tried to correct Shri Amar Singhji’s telephone number, which was repeatedly coming engaged. Finally, he got all three MPs to speak to Shri Amar Singhji. After this, I asked Shri Saxena for his mobile number, saying that I would like to remain in touch with him in future for any “chhota-mota kaam”. The number that Shri Saxena gave me was 9811721499. The CNN- IBN team has recorded these happenings on its hidden cameras. After Shri Sanjeev Saxena left Shri Argal’s house, the CNN-IBN team filmed the serial numbers of the first and the last currency notes in the ten bundles. Shri Siddharth Gautam then interviewed with his regular camera the three MPs in the drawing room, with the amount of Rs. 1 crore displayed on the table. Shri Kulkarniji and I were not in the room when the interview was being conducted. But we watched it by standing outside near the door. Thereafter, the three MPs packed the amount in two separate bags and left for Parliament. By this time, mediapersons had already started to arrive at Shri Argalji’s house. I, therefore, quietly sneaked out of the house, took a local bus to Dhaula Kuan, from where I boarded another bus at 2.30 pm to go to Jaipur. I arrived in Jaipur at around 7.30 p.m. I watched TV at around 8.00 p.m. and learnt that the Government had won the trust vote by securing 275 votes in its favour with 256 votes against and 10 abstentions. I was deeply disappointed. I switched to CNN-IBN to see if it was showing the tapes of the sting operation. Although the channel was showing (indeed, all other channels were showing) the three MPs displaying the notes inside Parliament, there was no sign of the sting tape. I asked some people if the channel had shown the tape earlier. They had no knowledge of it. My disappointment and anger knew no bounds. I felt that the channel had betrayed the trust of the three MPs as well as the trust of all those who had facilitated the exposure of this bribery scandal. All the information in this statement is true and factual. I am ready to be cross-examined by your Honourable Self or by the members of the inquiry committee appointed by you.

With kind regards, Yours sincerely,

Sd/- SUHAIL HINDUSTANI

405 APPENDIX XI (Please see Para 80 of the Report) CONFIDENTIAL F. No. 17/12/2008/VIG/LS Ministry of Finance Department of Financial Services New Delhi, the 26th September, 2008

OFFICE MEMORANDUM

Subject: Committee to enquire into complaint made by three members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on Motion of confidence. The undersigned is directed to refer to Lok Sabha Secretariat’s OM No. 4/22/2008/PNE dated 3.9.2008 on the subject cited above and to say that the concerned banks whose names had been mentioned in the statement provided by the Lok Sabha Sectt. were requested to furnish the details of persons/entities who had withdrawn the currency notes that were brought/displayed and placed on the table of the Lok Sabha on July 22, 2003. Replies have been received from all banks except ING Vysya Bank. It has been reported by the banks that there is no system of recording the serial number of currency notes issued to the customer and the banks do not maintain any record of serial number of currency notes paid to them. Therefore, banks are unable to trace out the person who has withdrawn the said bundles from the respective branch. 2. This issues with the approval of Secretary (FS).

Sd/- (J.S. PHAUGAT) Under Secretary to the Government of India Lok Sabha Secretariat (Shri V.K. Sharma, Joint Secretary) Parliament House Annexe New Delhi

406 APPENDIX XII (Please see Para 81 of the Report) URGENT Government of India Ministry of Communications & IT Department of Telecommunications (AS-II Cell) Sanchar Bhavan, 20, Ashoka Road, New Delhi-110 117 No. 16-8/2008-AS-III/428-9 Dated: 1st October, 2008

Subject: Committee to Inquire into complaint made by three members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with Voting on Motion of Confidence.

The undersigned is directed to refer to your letter No. 4/22/2008/P&E(IC) dated 15th September, 2008 and subsequent reminders of even number dated 24th September, 2008 and 29th September, 2008 on the above mentioned subject and to state that the details of CDRs obtained from MTNL in respect of Telephone numbers 24616827 and 23782233 (excluding local calls) and from M/s. Vodafone Essar Limited in respect of telephone numbers 9811721499 and 9873210341 are enclosed herewith as Annex-I. No call details are maintained by MTNL for local calls for landline telephones. This issues with the approval of Secretary, Department of Telecommunications.

Sd/- (RAJ K. KATARIA) Enclosure : As above Under Secretary to the Government of India Te l. No. 23036444 To Deputy Secretary Lok Sabha Secretariat Lok Sabha, New Delhi (Kind Attn: Shri Ashok Sajwan)

407 Subject Fw: call dtls of numbers 24616827 & 23782233 (excluding local calls) From mtnl Date Wednesday, October 1, 2008 3:02 pm To [email protected] In continuation of earlier mails it is clarified that no call details are maintained for local calls for pstn numbers of mtnl delhi Regards N.K. Jindal DGM (Tax) Phone: 011-23717272, 9868138384 —Original Message— From: Madhulika To: DGM TAX Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Fw: call dtls of numbers 24616827 & 23782233 (excluding local calls) —Original Message— From: Madhulika To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; gm it ; GM Central ; [email protected] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:36 pm Subject: Fw: call dtls of numbers 24616827 & 23782233 (excluding local calls) Dear Reena You are requested to directly provide the information sought by VTM. Thanks DGM (EL) —Original Message— From: [email protected] To: Harish Kumar (TERM Cell Delhi) ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: Re: call dtls of numbers 24616827 & 23782233 (excluding local calls) Dear all, We have received the rated CDRs from the IT of MTNL through DGM (E) MTNL. We appreciate the quick response from MTNL. Most of the fields are indicated as rated nn. It is requested that which of these fields indicate the calling Number, called Number, Date, Time, Duration, Incoming or Outgoing may please be indicated on immediate priority. Thanks P. K. Singh Director (TERM) Delhi +91-11-26443842(O), 26443830 (Fax), 9868139955 alternate mailid [email protected], [email protected] —Original Message— From: Harish Kumar (TERM Cell Delhi) To: DIRECTOR VTM CELL DELHI Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:45 AM Subject: Fw: call dtls of numbers 24616827 & 23782233 (excluding local calls) Sir pls find the CDR, made available by the IT Cell of MTNL. https://www.mail.in/wwc/webmail/print.html 10/1/2008

408 TELE NO. 24616827 Rated 17 Rated 18 Rated 21 Rated 22 Rated 24 Rated 25 Rated 26 Rated 27 Rated 28 ND/ND Post Paid 36.0000 1.000 08:33:25 PSTN 9868239390 1124616827 22.07.2008 HA/ND Post Paid 62.0000 1.000 08:47:54 PSTN 1242343170 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 96.0000 1.000 09:28:03 PSTN 9350397209 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 8.0000 1.000 09:37:48 PSTN 9350397209 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 68.0000 1.000 10:01:33 PSTN 9350397209 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 21.0000 1.000 10:53:27 PSTN 1130321136 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 50.0000 1.000 10:57:17 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 21.0000 1.000 11:01:36 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 15.0000 1.000 11:07:56 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 70.0000 1.000 11:09:18 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 17.0000 1.000 11:15:23 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 10.0000 1.000 11:19:52 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 17.0000 1.000 11:23:38 PSTN 1124616827 9811721499 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 29.0000 1.000 11:24:19 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000 1.000 11:24:57 PSTN 9811721499 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 22.0000 1.000 11:27:05 PSTN 1130321136 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 90.0000 1.000 11:27:33 PSTN 1130321136 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 36.0000 1.000 11:36:48 PSTN 9350397209 1124616827 22.07.2008 UPW/ND Post Paid 45.0000 1.000 11:40:42 PSTN 1202553963 1124616827 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000 1.000 11:53:17 PSTN 1130321136 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 62.0000 1.000 12:14:39 PSTN 9810775282 1124616827 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000 1.000 12:14:47 PSTN 1130321136 1124616827 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000 1.000 12:15:36 PSTN 1130321136 1124616827 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 20.0000 1.000 12:15:50 PSTN 1130321136 1124616827 22.07.2008 Rated 11 Rated 12 Rated 13 Rated 14 Rated 15 Rated 16 MTNL-Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Inter Zone A Gurgaon/New Delhi BSOF-BSNL — Fixed Reliance_Delhi/New Delhi BSOM Reliance_Delhi/New Delhi BSOM Reliance_Delhi/New Delhi BSOM New Delhi/New Delhi BSOF Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS No Duration New Delhi/New Delhi BSOF New Delhi/New Delhi BSOF Reliance_Delhi/New Delhi BSOM Inter Zone A Ghaziabad+Dadri/New Delhi BSOF-BSNL—Fixed No Duration Airtel_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS No Duration No Duration New Delhi/New Delhi BSOF

409 TELE NO. 23782233 Rated 17 Rated 18 Rated 21 Rated 22 Rated 24 Rated 25 Rated 26 Rated 27 Rated 28

ND/ND Post Paid 24 1 21:00:07 PSTN 1123782233 1132542159 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 79 1 21:04:19 PSTN 1123782233 9818885216 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 5 1 21:12:55 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 26 1 21:13:28 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 114 1 21:14:22 PSTN 1123782233 9810442972 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 20 1.0000000 21:16:59 PSTN 9818885216 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 125 1 21:26:31 PSTN 9811502133 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 41 1.0000000 21:28:59 PSTN 1123782233 9818046592 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 62 1 21:33:18 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 21.07.2008 RJ/ND Post Paid 84 1.0000000 21:39:15 PSTN 9887459019 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 91 1 21:44:39 PSTN 9810442972 1123782233 21.07.2008 RJ/ND Post Paid 19 1.0000000 21:46:36 PSTN 9887459019 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 54 1.0000000 21:55:02 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 73 1.0000000 22:02:58 PSTN 9810054321 1123782233 21.07.2008 BY/ND Post Paid 191 1.0000000 22:05:22 PSTN 9920247979 1123782233 21.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 41.0000000 1.0000000 22:11:58 PSTN 9335704217 1123782233 21.07.2008 MH/ND Post Paid 45.0000000 1.0000000 22:13:01 PSTN 9869424693 1123782233 21.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 225.0000000 1.0000000 22:14:25 PSTN 9335704217 1123782233 21.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 133.0000000 1.0000000 22:18:21 PSTN 9335704217 1123782233 21.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 268.0000000 1.0000000 22:20:39 PSTN 9335704217 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 25.0000000 1.0000000 22:25:29 PSTN 1132565397 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 21.0000000 1.0000000 22:28:40 PSTN 1123782233 9818046592 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 61.0000000 1.0000000 22:29:43 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 56.0000000 1.0000000 22:41:37 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 29.0000000 1.0000000 22:43:17 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 21.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 65.0000000 1.0000000 22:45:05 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 21.07.2008 NTR-LUCKNOW/ND Post Paid 133.0000000 1.0000000 22:48:33 PSTN 9415111139 1123782233 21.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 23:58:04 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 21.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 00:04:54 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 135.0000000 1.0000000 00:06:54 PSTN 9911711951 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 52.0000000 1.0000000 00:10:46 PSTN 1123782233 1132542159 22.07.2008

410 Rated 17 Rated 18 Rated 21 Rated 22 Rated 24 Rated 25 Rated 26 Rated 27 Rated 28

ND/ND Post Paid 15.0000000 1.0000000 00:12:50 PSTN 9911711951 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 7.0000000 1.0000000 00:16:53 PSTN 1123782233 9999154076 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 73.0000000 1.0000000 00:31:22 PSTN 1132565397 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 4.0000000 1.0000000 05:31:11 PSTN 1123782233 9810955560 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 25.0000000 1.0000000 05:32:03 PSTN 1123782233 9810955560 22.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 20.0000000 1.0000000 07:18:28 PSTN 9794246653 1123782233 22.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 407.0000000 1.0000000 07:39:00 PSTN 5322413111 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 32.0000000 1.0000000 07:57:28 PSTN 9990481448 1123782233 22.07.2008 NTR-LUCKNOW/ND Post Paid 120.0000000 1.0000000 08:16:01 PSTN 9451612649 1123782233 22.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 96.0000000 1.0000000 08:25:35 PSTN 5322256416 1123782233 22.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 846.0000000 1.0000000 08:27:13 PSTN 5322413111 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 32.0000000 1.0000000 08:41:11 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 08:41:58 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 18.0000000 1.0000000 08:42:11 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 197.0000000 1.0000000 08:43:36 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 121.0000000 1.0000000 08:46:29 PSTN 9868910003 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 29.0000000 1.0000000 08:48:40 PSTN 1123782233 9868910003 22.07.2008 NTR-LUCKNOW/ND Post Paid 189.0000000 1.0000000 08:53:18 PSTN 9453254475 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 08:53:46 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 UPE/ND Post Paid 125.0000000 1.0000000 08:56:23 PSTN 9839827220 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 82.0000000 1.0000000 09:02:20 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 09:05:38 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 121.0000000 1.0000000 09:05:50 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 09:06:15 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 STR-HYDERABAD/ND Post Paid 71.0000000 1.0000000 09:08:50 PSTN 9415351738 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 74.0000000 1.0000000 09:13:58 PSTN 1123782233 1132565397 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 9.0000000 1.0000000 09:16:42 PSTN 1123782233 9810442972 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 46.0000000 1.0000000 09:17:58 PSTN 1123782233 9810442972 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 110.0000000 1.0000000 09:19:11 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 41.0000000 1.0000000 09:26:31 PSTN 9999996060 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 203.0000000 1.0000000 09:34:59 PSTN 1123782233 9811227845 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 99.0000000 1.0000000 09:43:50 PSTN 1123782233 9211008779 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 33.0000000 1.0000000 09:51:24 PSTN 1164727951 1123782233 22.07.2008

411 Rated 17 Rated 18 Rated 21 Rated 22 Rated 24 Rated 25 Rated 26 Rated 27 Rated 28

UPE/ND Post Paid 17.0000000 1.0000000 10:01:35 PSTN 9838076272 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 25.0000000 1.0000000 10:05:02 PSTN 1123782233 9313039246 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 27.0000000 1.0000000 10:09:15 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 22.07.2008 NTR-LUCKNOW/ND Post Paid 18.0000000 1.0000000 10:12:40 PSTN 9415627102 1123782233 22.07.2008 NTR-LUCKNOW/ND Post Paid 30.0000000 1.0000000 10:18:17 PSTN 9792147974 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 30.0000000 1.0000000 10:21:25 PSTN 1123782233 1141888111 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 10:24:50 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 10:26:34 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 10:26:48 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 10:27:05 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 10:27:29 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 22.07.2008 Post Paid 0.0000000 1.0000000 10:28:35 PSTN 9818046592 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 14.0000000 1.0000000 10:40:44 PSTN 1123782233 9999996060 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 48.0000000 1.0000000 10:50:21 PSTN 1123782233 9910267686 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 160.0000000 1.0000000 10:58:21 PSTN 9910267686 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 472.0000000 1.0000000 11:04:33 PSTN 1123782233 9899105527 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 73.0000000 1.0000000 11:14:56 PSTN 1123782233 1141888111 22.07.2008 ND/NTR-LUCKNOW Post Paid 259.0000000 1.0000000 11:25:39 PSTN 1123782233 9450277006 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 114.0000000 1.0000000 11:31:39 PSTN 1123782233 9312602836 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 35.0000000 1.0000000 11:44:14 PSTN 9999154213 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 23.0000000 1.0000000 11:46:23 PSTN 9999154213 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 13.0000000 1.0000000 12:09:07 PSTN 9899873717 1123782233 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 166.0000000 1.0000000 13:03:23 PSTN 1123782233 9810706920 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 17.0000000 1.0000000 13:13:45 PSTN 1123782233 9810097819 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 66.0000000 1.0000000 13:16:01 PSTN 1123782233 9810334324 22.07.2008 ND/ND Post Paid 7.0000000 1.0000000 13:19:30 PSTN 1123782233 9899298836 22.07.2008 ND/WTR-BHOPAL Post Paid 17.0000000 1.0000000 13:21:05 PSTN 1123782233 9425010468 22.07.2008 ND/WTR-BHOPAL Post Paid 45.0000000 1.0000000 13:21:58 PSTN 1123782233 9425104688 22.07.2008 ND/WTR-BHOPAL Post Paid 4 1.0000000 13:22:08 PSTN 1123782233 9893138388 22.07.2008 WTR-BHOPAL/ND Post Paid 43 1.0000000 13:22:44 PSTN 1123782233 9868686872 22.07.2008 ND-WTR-BHOPAL Post Paid 182 1 13:23:13 PSTN 1123782233 9425104688 22.07.2008 WTR-BHOPAL/ND Post Paid 183 1.0000000 13:23:59 PSTN 1123782233 9868686983 22.07.2008 ND/ETR-PATNA Post Paid 242 1.0000000 13:28:11 PSTN 1123782233 6126570453 22.07.2008

412 Rated 11 Rated 12 Rated 13 Rated 14 Rated 15 Rated 16

New Delhi/New Delhi BSOM New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS Airtel-Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Loc Zone A Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS-Vodafone_Mobile New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS Airtel_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Inter Zone D IDEA_Rajasthan/New Delhi CMTS-IDEA_Mobile Airtel_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Inter Zone D IDEA_Rajasthan/New Delhi CMTS-IDEA_Mobile New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS Airtel_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Inter Zone E Vodafone_Mumbai/New Delhi CMTS-Vodafone_Mobile Inter Zone D Reliance_UPE/New Delhi BSOM-Reliance_Mobile Inter Zone E MTNL_Mumbai/New Delhi CMTS-MTNL_Dolphin Inter Zone D Reliance_UPE/New Delhi BSOM-Reliance_Mobile Inter Zone D Reliance_UPE/New Delhi BSOM-Reliance_Mobile Inter Zone D Reliance_UPE/New Delhi BSOM-Reliance_Mobile New Delhi/New Delhi BSOM New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Airtel_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS Inter Zone D BSNL_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-BSNL_Mobile No Duration No Duration IDEA_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/New Delhi BSOM IDEA_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/IDEA_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/New Delhi BSOM New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS Aircel_UPE/New Delhi CMTS

413 Rated 11 Rated 12 Rated 13 Rated 14 Rated 15 Rated 16

Inter Zone E Allahabad/New Delhi BSOF-BSNL_Fixed IDEA_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Inter Zone D BSNL_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-BSNL_Mobile Inter Zone E Allahabad/New Delhi BSOF-BSNL_Fixed Inter Zone E Allahabad/New Delhi BSOF-BSNL_Fixed Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS No Duration Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS MTNL_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/MTNL_Delhi CMTS Inter Zone D BSNL_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-BSNL_Mobile No Duration Inter Zone D Vodafone_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-Vodafone_Mobile Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS No Duration New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS No Duration Inter Zone E BSNL_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-BSNL_Mobile New Delhi/New Delhi BSOM New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Tata_Delhi BSOM New Delhi/New Delhi BSOF Inter Zone D Vodafone_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-Vodafone_Mobile New Delhi/Reliance-Delhi BSOM Airtel_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Inter Zone D BSNL_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-BSNL_Mobile Inter Zone D Aircel_UPE/New Delhi CMTS-Aircel_Mobile New Delhi/New Delhi BSOF No Duration No Duration

414 Rated 11 Rated 12 Rated 13 Rated 14 Rated 15 Rated 16

No Duration No Duration No Duration No Duration New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS Airtel_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/New Delhi BSOF Inter Zone D New Delhi/BSNL_UPE CMTS-BSNL_Mobile New Delhi/Reliance_Delhi BSOM IDEA_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS IDEA_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS Vodafone_Delhi/New Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Airtel_Delhi CMTS New Delhi/Vodafone_Delhi CMTS Inter Zone E New Delhi/BSNL_Madhya Pradesh CMTS-BSNL_Mobile Inter Zone E New Delhi/BSNL_Madhya Pradesh CMTS-BSNL_Mobile Inter Zone E New Delhi/Airtel_Madhya Pradesh CMTS-Airtel_Mobile Inter Zone E New Delhi/MTNL_Delhi BSOF-MTNL_Fixed Inter Zone E New Delhi/BSNL_Madhya Pradesh CMTS-BSNL_Mobile Inter Zone E New Delhi/MTNL_Delhi BSOF-MTNL_Fixed Inter Zone E New Delhi/Patna BSOF-Tata_Fixed

415 DIR_VTM_HQ From: Harish Kumar (TERM Cell Delhi) [[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:11 AM To:DIR_VTM_HQ Subject: Fw: VTMD-2008-67 (PART-1) Importance: High Attachments: DEL_PRE987321041 to 200111.txt; DEL_PST9811721499T200032.txt ——Original Message—— From: Harish Kumar (TERM Cell Delhi) To:Director VTM Cell Delhi Sent: Friday, September 27, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: VTMD-2008-67 (PART-1) ——Original Message—— From: Gulshan Arora (DEL) To: Harish Kumar (VTM Cell Delhi) Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:03 PM Subject: RE: urgent: TERM CELL DELHI G1: CASE NO. DOT-1508 Sir, As desired, please find enclosed the CDRs of the requested number for the specified period. Regards, Gulshan Arora Vodafone Delhi From: Harish Kumar (VTC Cell Delhi) [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:05 PM To: Gulshan Arora (DEL); nodaldesk; NODELDESK DELHI (DEL) Subject: urgent: TERM CELL DELHI G1: CASE NO. DOT-1508 CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT : TELECOM ENFORCEMENT, RESOURCES & MONITORING CELL NEW DELHI Dear Gulshan Ji, Pls. provide the CDR from 20-July-2008 to 24 July-2008 for the following numbers on URGENT BASIS : 9811721499 9873210341 Best Regards, Harish Kumar …………………………………… Harish Kumar, I.T.S. Assistant Director General 10.1.2008

416 DEL_PRE 9873210341T200111 Call Details for 9873210341. Reference No. 092055130824 Period 20.07.2008 to 24.07.2008 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 065122 359329003621380 95 40783 OUT 919873210341 09868711678 20.07.2008 065319 359329003621380 24 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 20.07.2008 083439 359329003621380 45 18232 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 094226 359329003621380 17 22722 INC 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 094527 359329003621380 10 22723 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 101429 359329003621380 25 18232 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 102728 359329003621380 9 22722 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 20.07.2008 104245 359329003621380 2 22722 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 20.07.2008 104304 359329003621380 28 22722 INC 919873210341 09311594734 20.07.2008 122753 359329003621380 121 22722 INC 919873210341 09990099969 20.07.2008 123331 359329003621380 29 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 20.07.2008 123703 359329003621380 21 22722 OUT 919873210341 09868306662 20.07.2008 124811 359329003621380 119 19151 INC 919873210341 09871205522 20.07.2008 125457 359329003621380 37 18232 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 20.07.2008 125537 359329003621380 43 22722 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 125702 359329003621380 22 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 20.07.2008 130335 359329003621380 9 22722 INC 919873210341 09899896636 20.07.2008 134537 359329003621380 36 18232 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 140828 359329003621380 4 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 20.07.2008 144344 359329003621380 248 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899036373 20.07.2008 150410 359329003621380 7 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899036373 20.07.2008 151138 359329003621380 12 22723 OUT 919873210341 09359927743 20.07.2008 154655 359329003621380 314 22723 INC 919873210341 09871205522 20.07.2008 162106 359329003621380 18 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 162318 359329003621380 112 18232 INC 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 162540 359329003621380 76 22722 INC 919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 162733 359329003621380 23 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899036373 20.07.2008 162747 359329003621380 57 22722 INC 919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 165537 359329003621380 16 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 171007 359329003621380 188 22722 OUT 919873210341 09950505252 20.07.2008 171433 359329003621380 17 22722 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 20.07.2008 171522 359329003621380 54 18232 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 175052 359329003621380 27 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 175501 359329003621380 1 22722 INC 919873210341 09811871206 20.07.2008 175545 359329003621380 5 22722 OUT

417 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919873210341 09717274912 20.07.2008 180310 359329003621380 45 22722 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 20.07.2008 181109 359329003621380 21 22723 OUT 919873210341 09950505252 20.07.2008 181202 359329003621380 20 22722 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 20.07.2008 184408 359329003621380 14 22722 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 20.07.2008 185127 359329003621380 19 22723 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 191823 359329003621380 11 22722 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 20.07.2008 195329 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 195648 359329003621380 92 22722 INC 919873210341 09868711678 20.07.2008 200346 <> 17 22722 INC 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 203759 359329003621380 24 10433 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 203903 359329003621380 87 12771 OUT 919873210341 09717274912 20.07.2008 205709 359329003621380 104 18172 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 205918 <> 24 18172 INC 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 210315 359329003621380 40 18172 OUT 919873210341 09899896636 20.07.2008 213921 359329003621380 160 40783 INC 919873210341 01125671649 20.07.2008 214249 359329003621380 39 40783 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 20.07.2008 214719 <> 1 40783 SMSO 919873210341 09899389789 20.07.2008 215935 359329003621380 1187 34102 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 20.07.2008 222527 359329003621380 89 40783 SMSO 919873210341 09818075441 20.07.2008 222814 <> 1 40783 SMSO 919873210341 09818075441 20.07.2008 222930 <> 1 40783 SMSO 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 223011 359329003621380 78 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 223537 359329003621380 45 34102 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 20.07.2008 224434 359329003621380 7 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 20.07.2008 232457 359329003621380 13 40783 OUT 919873210341 01132447912 20.07.2008 233457 359329003621380 51 34102 INC 919873210341 0140 20.07.2008 233613 359329003621380 63 40783 OUT 919873210341 0140 20.07.2008 233722 359329003621380 53 34102 OUT 919873210341 0140 20.07.2008 233821 359329003621380 53 40783 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 21.07.2008 000148 <> 1 34102 SMSO 919873210341 09818075441 21.07.2008 000845 <> 1 34102 SMSO 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 002557 359329003621380 1780 34102 OUT 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 005537 359329003621380 557 34102 OUT 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 010646 359329003621380 1241 34102 OUT 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 012751 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 012807 359329003621380 2 34102 OUT 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 012918 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 013127 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT

418 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 013117 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09250997066 21.07.2008 013533 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 21.07.2008 073225 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 21.07.2008 073250 359329003621380 34 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 21.07.2008 082123 359329003621380 6 11361 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 21.07.2008 082703 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 21.07.2008 082720 359329003621380 6 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 21.07.2008 082737 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 21.07.2008 082752 359329003621380 28 18232 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 21.07.2008 082939 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09717274912 21.07.2008 085245 359329003621380 31 18232 OUT 919873210341 09971866107 21.07.2008 085733 359329003621380 65 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 21.07.2008 090719 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 21.07.2008 090743 359329003621380 21 18232 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 21.07.2008 090812 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 21.07.2008 090842 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 21.07.2008 090857 359329003621380 98 18232 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 21.07.2008 091506 359329003621380 85 22723 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 21.07.2008 094353 359329003621380 157 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 21.07.2008 095031 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 21.07.2008 095044 359329003621380 42 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 21.07.2008 095514 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 21.07.2008 095617 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 21.07.2008 095633 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 21.07.2008 095649 359329003621380 15 22722 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 21.07.2008 095944 359329003621380 2 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 21.07.2008 100009 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 21.07.2008 100026 359329003621380 25 22722 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 21.07.2008 100107 359329003621380 7 22722 OUT 919873210341 0140 21.07.2008 104850 359329003621380 45 22722 OUT 919873210341 09311594734 21.07.2008 105912 359329003621380 75 22723 INC 919873210341 09793379900 21.07.2008 111553 359329003621380 31 22723 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 21.07.2008 113534 359329003621380 104 22722 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 21.07.2008 133858 359329003621380 29 19151 OUT 919873210341 09412750856 21.07.2008 135229 359329003621380 39 22722 INC 919873210341 01125671649 21.07.2008 135446 359329003621380 18 18232 INC 919873210341 09793379900 21.07.2008 140807 359329003621380 29 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 21.07.2008 141459 359329003621380 76 22722 OUT 919873210341 09359927743 21.07.2008 142153 359329003621380 38 22722 INC 919873210341 09359927743 21.07.2008 142417 359329003621380 55 22722 INC 919873210341 09412750856 21.07.2008 152041 359329003621380 52 22722 INC

419 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919873210341 09211466201 21.07.2008 161851 359329003621380 13 22722 OUT 919873210341 053303 21.07.2008 161937 <> 1 22722 SMSO 919873210341 09793379900 21.07.2008 162244 359329003621380 38 22722 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 21.07.2008 162454 359329003621380 32 18232 INC 919873210341 09412750856 21.07.2008 163628 359329003621380 10 18232 INC 919873210341 09899896636 21.07.2008 165816 359329003621380 43 18232 OUT 919873210341 01132565397 21.07.2008 174139 359329003621380 77 24361 INC 919873210341 09720228807 21.07.2008 185330 359329003621380 1081 31303 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 21.07.2008 191209 359329003621380 142 31303 OUT 919873210341 09210719297 21.07.2008 191751 359329003621380 69 31303 INC 919873210341 09311594734 21.07.2008 191959 359329003621380 234 12841 INC 919873210341 09950505252 21.07.2008 193512 359329003621380 47 12841 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 21.07.2008 195330 359329003621380 50 31303 OUT 919873210341 09313368377 21.07.2008 221640 359329003621380 163 12841 INC 919873210341 09999151816 22.07.2008 083229 359329003621380 15 18232 INC 919873210341 09871205522 22.07.2008 085455 359329003621380 6 18232 OUT 919873210341 09950505252 22.07.2008 090757 359329003621380 170 18232 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 22.07.2008 104924 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 22.07.2008 104946 359329003621380 7 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 22.07.2008 105652 359329003621380 7 18232 INC 919873210341 09811721499 22.07.2008 105735 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 22.07.2008 105846 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 22.07.2008 110030 359329003621380 13 22722 INC 919873210341 09833150998 22.07.2008 110044 359329003621380 45 22722 INC 919873210341 09811721499 22.07.2008 110306 359329003621380 8 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 22.07.2008 110322 359329003621380 59 22722 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 22.07.2008 110922 359329003621380 8 18232 OUT 919873210341 09793379900 22.07.2008 110942 359329003621380 75 18232 OUT 919873210341 09899594731 22.07.2008 111858 359329003621380 11 22722 INC 919873210341 053303 22.07.2008 114003 <> 1 18232 SMSO 919873210341 09412750856 22.07.2008 114803 359329003621380 92 22722 INC 919873210341 0140 22.07.2008 120721 359329003621380 9 18232 OUT 919873210341 0140 22.07.2008 121035 359329003621380 45 22722 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 22.07.2008 122523 359329003621380 28 22722 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 22.07.2008 122717 359329003621380 7 18232 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 22.07.2008 130248 359329003621380 43 18232 OUT 919873210341 09311594734 22.07.2008 133506 359329003621380 37 22722 INC 919873210341 09311594734 22.07.2008 135602 359329003621380 84 22722 OUT

420 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919873210341 09311594734 22.07.2008 140327 <> 31 22722 INC 919873210341 01125030696 22.07.2008 144348 359329003621380 56 18232 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 22.07.2008 161417 359329003621380 20 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811721499 22.07.2008 162343 359329003621380 3 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 22.07.2008 163354 359329003621380 32 19151 INC 919873210341 09811871206 22.07.2008 164632 359329003621380 65 22722 INC 919873210341 01125030696 22.07.2008 170420 359329003621380 29 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811871206 22.07.2008 171816 359329003621380 31 18232 INC 919873210341 09811871206 22.07.2008 173847 359329003621380 86 22722 INC 919873210341 09313368377 22.07.2008 175902 359329003621380 5 22722 INC 919873210341 09311594734 22.07.2008 194713 359329003621380 102 18173 INC 919873210341 09811339509 22.07.2008 195708 359329003621380 14 34102 OUT 919873210341 09313368377 22.07.2008 195721 359329003621380 136 34102 INC 919873210341 09811339509 22.07.2008 201733 359329003621380 60 40783 INC 919873210341 09811339509 22.07.2008 201854 359329003621380 33 34102 OUT 919873210341 09899896636 22.07.2008 202639 359329003621380 183 40783 INC 919873210341 09311594734 22.07.2008 203045 359329003621380 63 40783 INC 919873210341 09216510051 22.07.2008 203424 359329003621380 15 40783 INC 919873210341 09871205522 22.07.2008 203539 359329003621380 77 40783 OUT 919873210341 09720228807 22.07.2008 204039 359329003621380 364 40783 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 22.07.2008 205008 359329003621380 74 34102 OUT 919873210341 09359927743 22.07.2008 210713 359329003621380 40 34102 INC 919873210341 01122015367 22.07.2008 224527 359329003621380 361 34102 OUT 919873210341 09871594917 22.07.2008 225155 359329003621380 136 34102 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 23.07.2008 093912 359329003621380 6 18232 OUT 919873210341 09871205522 23.07.2008 093738 359329003621380 16 19151 INC 919873210341 09871205522 23.07.2008 101036 359329003621380 41 22722 INC 919873210341 09319853102 23.07.2008 101134 359329003621380 28 22722 INC 919873210341 09920308202 23.07.2008 101736 359329003621380 20 22722 INC 919873210341 01125030696 23.07.2008 113746 359329003621380 63 22722 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 115903 359329003621380 99 18232 OUT 919873210341 09319853102 23.07.2008 120315 359329003621380 19 22722 INC 919873210341 053303 23.07.2008 120855 <> 1 22722 SMSO 919873210341 09311594734 23.07.2008 132028 359329003621380 13 22722 INC 919873210341 09359927743 23.07.2008 135744 359329003621380 46 18232 INC 919873210341 09311594734 23.07.2008 135832 359329003621380 2 22722 INC 919873210341 09412750856 23.07.2008 140029 359329003621380 14 18232 OUT 919873210341 09412750856 23.07.2008 140120 359329003621380 23 22722 INC

421 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919873210341 09412750856 23.07.2008 140745 359329003621380 98 22722 INC 919873210341 01125653873 23.07.2008 143828 359329003621380 17 19151 INC 919873210341 05652402631 23.07.2008 143900 359329003621380 90 18232 INC 919873210341 09359927743 23.07.2008 144213 359329003621380 90 18232 OUT 919873210341 09412750856 23.07.2008 144406 359329003621380 45 18232 OUT 919873210341 09311594734 23.07.2008 145241 359329003621380 15 22722 INC 919873210341 09412750856 23.07.2008 161155 359329003621380 6 34351 INC 919873210341 09415001780 23.07.2008 162500 359329003621380 63 18072 INC 919873210341 01122241559 23.07.2008 162949 359329003621380 207 16693 INC 919873210341 01122241559 23.07.2008 164105 359329003621380 126 30322 OUT 919873210341 09359927743 23.07.2008 164329 359329003621380 131 30323 OUT 919873210341 09211466201 23.07.2008 164842 359329003621380 38 24361 OUT 919873210341 09412750856 23.07.2008 164941 <> 58 24362 INC 919873210341 01125030696 23.07.2008 165114 359329003621380 30 22721 OUT 919873210341 09359927743 23.07.2008 165225 359329003621380 70 18231 INC 919873210341 09211466201 23.07.2008 165904 359329003621380 12 18232 OUT 919873210341 01122241559 23.07.2008 170705 359329003621380 237 22722 INC 919873210341 09999151816 23.07.2008 172032 359329003621380 25 22722 INC 919873210341 09833150998 23.07.2008 181401 359329003621380 92 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 181553 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 01125671649 23.07.2008 184141 359329003621380 44 34102 INC 919873210341 09818075441 23.07.2008 185658 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 185719 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 23.07.2008 191044 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 23.07.2008 191111 359329003621380 7 40783 OUT 919873210341 09359927743 23.07.2008 193425 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09359927743 23.07.2008 193447 359329003621380 21 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193536 359329003621380 8 40783 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193604 359329003621380 8 40783 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193622 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193639 359329003621380 8 40783 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193738 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193754 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193819 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193835 359329003621380 8 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 193848 359329003621380 25 34102 OUT 919873210341 09412750856 23.07.2008 195503 359329003621380 91 12921 INC 919873210341 09873549326 23.07.2008 204920 359329003621380 48 18173 INC

422 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919873210341 09811339509 23.07.2008 210932 359329003621380 9 40783 INC 919873210341 09319853102 24.07.2008 095135 359329003621380 251 18232 INC 919873210341 09319853102 24.07.2008 101545 359329003621380 35 18232 INC 919873210341 09811339509 24.07.2008 115907 359329003621380 16 19151 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 24.07.2008 120026 359329003621380 54 22722 INC 919873210341 09899594731 24.07.2008 124520 359329003621380 119 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899594731 24.07.2008 125158 359329003621380 82 22722 INC 919873210341 09711204510 24.07.2008 131552 359329003621380 12 22722 INC 919873210341 09311594734 24.07.2008 140143 359329003621380 91 22722 INC 919873210341 09871594917 24.07.2008 140349 359329003621380 25 22722 INC 919873210341 09833150908 24.07.2008 145852 359329003621380 25 18232 OUT 919873210341 09833150908 24.07.2008 151749 359329003621380 26 18232 OUT 919873210341 09833150908 24.07.2008 152335 359329003621380 6 22722 OUT 919873210341 09899594731 24.07.2008 161325 359329003621380 127 22722 INC 919873210341 09412750856 24.07.2008 162600 359329003621380 30 22722 INC 919873210341 09873883078 24.07.2008 163013 359329003621380 61 22722 INC 919873210341 09211466201 24.07.2008 164825 359329003621380 12 22722 OUT 919873210341 09833150908 24.07.2008 174719 359329003621380 20 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 24.07.2008 180102 359329003621380 19 40783 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 24.07.2008 180856 359329003621380 14 34102 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 24.07.2008 180953 359329003621380 100 34102 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 24.07.2008 181159 359329003621380 13 34102 OUT 919873210341 09311594734 24.07.2008 183018 359329003621380 30 34102 OUT 919873210341 09311594734 24.07.2008 183215 359329003621380 148 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 24.07.2008 183540 359329003621380 46 34102 OUT 919873210341 09311594734 24.07.2008 183637 359329003621380 122 34102 OUT 919873210341 09899896636 24.07.2008 202824 359329003621380 238 40783 OUT 919873210341 09720228807 24.07.2008 203317 359329003621380 489 34102 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 24.07.2008 204249 359329003621380 64 34102 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 24.07.2008 204825 359329003621380 231 34101 OUT 919873210341 09818075441 24.07.2008 205311 359329003621380 95 34101 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 24.07.2008 211010 359329003621380 245 40783 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 24.07.2008 211823 359329003621380 42 40783 OUT 919873210341 09899389789 24.07.2008 220103 359329003621380 572 34102 OUT 919873210341 09811339509 24.07.2008 221205 359329003621380 265 34102 OUT 919873210341 09311594734 24.07.2008 225449 359329003621380 1669 34102 OUT

423 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

DEL—PST9811721499T200032 Call Details for 9873210341. Reference No. 092055130824 Period 20.07.2008 to 24.07.2008 919811721499 09958270303 20.07.2008 080505 <> 1 11961 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811414304 20.07.2008 080525 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810623319 20.07.2008 080554 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818168899 20.07.2008 080613 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810674412 20.07.2008 080628 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811540569 20.07.2008 080651 <> 1 34542 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810627686 20.07.2008 080706 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811124793 20.07.2008 080505 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810327058 20.07.2008 080723 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810889397 20.07.2008 080740 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810639584 20.07.2008 080755 <> 1 34353 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810639584 20.07.2008 080813 <> 1 34351 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818296030 20.07.2008 080849 <> 1 34542 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09868225330 20.07.2008 080905 <> 1 34542 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810014036 20.07.2008 080923 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810006411 20.07.2008 080943 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811292743 20.07.2008 080956 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810392660 20.07.2008 081012 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811633309 20.07.2008 081030 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09891215649 20.07.2008 081047 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818076745 20.07.2008 081127 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394

424 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919811721499 09899200052 20.07.2008 081142 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810100205 20.07.2008 081204 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810353130 20.07.2008 081223 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09891497662 20.07.2008 081244 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818886190 20.07.2008 081341 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818463646 20.07.2008 081416 <> 1 12641 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 20.07.2008 083435 355359008507100 45 13853 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09811667645 20.07.2008 092813 355359008507100 20 18072 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 058888 20.07.2008 102353 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 058888 20.07.2008 102653 <> 1 13853 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 112618 355359008507100 15 19151 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 112807 355359008507100 33 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01123386842 20.07.2008 112959 355359008507100 89 19151 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01123365125 20.07.2008 113401 355359008507100 130 18232 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 113633 355359008507100 67 18232 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 114457 355359008507100 16 22723 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 122118 355359008507100 18 10432 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 053303 20.07.2008 122154 <> 1 10432 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 20.07.2008 122241 355359008507100 18 16151 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 20.07.2008 124137 355359008507100 12 16151 INC 404110200905394

425 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919811721499 09873210341 20.07.2008 125537 355359008507100 43 11633 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 20.07.2008 130335 355359008507100 9 22722 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 20.07.2008 134241 355359008507100 53 19151 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09724501956 20.07.2008 134714 355359008507100 57 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09724501956 20.07.2008 170408 355359008507100 678 18072 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09899036373 20.07.2008 173401 355359008507100 12 18072 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09899787201 20.07.2008 174202 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09910566430 20.07.2008 174222 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811414304 20.07.2008 174239 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810623319 20.07.2008 174311 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818168899 20.07.2008 174327 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810674412 20.07.2008 174345 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811540569 20.07.2008 174403 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810627686 20.07.2008 174426 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810702134 20.07.2008 174442 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811124793 20.07.2008 174456 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810327058 20.07.2008 174511 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810889397 20.07.2008 174528 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810738052 20.07.2008 174546 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810639584 20.07.2008 174603 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818296030 20.07.2008 174620 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09868225330 20.07.2008 174638 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394

426 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919811721499 09810014036 20.07.2008 174655 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09968213136 20.07.2008 174711 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810006411 20.07.2008 174729 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811292743 20.07.2008 174747 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09868282989 20.07.2008 174806 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09891380950 20.07.2008 174826 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810392660 20.07.2008 174845 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810678061 20.07.2008 174903 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811633309 20.07.2008 174922 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09891215649 20.07.2008 174943 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810454864 20.07.2008 175006 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810048919 20.07.2008 175024 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09899200052 20.07.2008 175038 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810100205 20.07.2008 175051 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810353130 20.07.2008 175107 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811604451 20.07.2008 175123 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09999770223 20.07.2008 175140 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09971500599 20.07.2008 175156 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810785600 20.07.2008 175213 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811978494 20.07.2008 175231 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09868170243 20.07.2008 175307 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394

427 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919811721499 09810889391 20.07.2008 175327 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810841793 20.07.2008 175346 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09891890515 20.07.2008 175410 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818618046 20.07.2008 175429 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810118434 20.07.2008 175446 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810307140 20.07.2008 175504 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811267111 20.07.2008 175526 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811211888 20.07.2008 175542 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09999012645 20.07.2008 175600 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818886190 20.07.2008 175622 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09818463646 20.07.2008 175657 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811994294 20.07.2008 175714 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09313281022 20.07.2008 175734 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09811557961 20.07.2008 175752 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810192075 20.07.2008 175810 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09868566939 20.07.2008 175830 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810469571 20.07.2008 175848 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810782416 20.07.2008 175906 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810249904 20.07.2008 175924 <> 1 18072 SMSO 404110200905394 919811721499 09810374101 20.07.2008 180221 355359008507100 95 18072 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09811667645 20.07.2008 180638 355359008507100 21 18072 INC 404110200905394

428 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT 919811721499 09350397209 20.07.2008 181808 355359008507100 23 11913 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09899639769 20.07.2008 192625 355359008507100 39 34542 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 20.07.2008 203902 355359008507100 9 18072 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 21.07.2008 082120 355359008507100 6 18072 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 21.07.2008 082716 355359008507100 6 18072 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 21.07.2008 082749 355359008507100 28 18072 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09910461193 21.07.2008 085713 355359008507100 18 11913 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09724501956 21.07.2008 091531 355359008507100 59 18072 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01204395555 21.07.2008 104401 355359008507100 53 51513 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 104517 355359008507100 63 17041 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09999012645 21.07.2008 123519 355359008507100 15 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09999012645 21.07.2008 123835 355359008507100 8 19151 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09999012645 21.07.2008 125148 355359008507100 94 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01203925555 21.07.2008 131400 355359008507100 37 18232 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09724501956 21.07.2008 132105 355359008507100 17 18232 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01123794848 21.07.2008 142007 355359008507100 8 19151 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 154617 355359008507100 174 18232 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01145628700 21.07.2008 155810 355359008507100 38 10361 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01123794848 21.07.2008 170818 355359008507100 26 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09899639769 21.07.2008 171054 355359008507100 36 22722 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 181302 355359008507100 81 22722 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 201132 355359008507100 4 19151 OUT 404110200905394

429 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919811721499 01122241559 21.07.2008 201230 355359008507100 79 22722 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09839035298 21.07.2008 202047 355359008507100 41 22723 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 21.07.2008 203536 355359008507100 50 22722 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 21.07.2008 203644 355359008507100 20 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 21.07.2008 203724 355359008507100 66 22722 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09350397209 21.07.2008 213753 355359008507100 61 34351 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09810965210 22.07.2008 095627 355359008507100 45 18232 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 22.07.2008 103258 355359008507100 26 22721 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 105652 355359008507100 7 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 105738 355359008507100 50 12932 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 110030 355359008507100 13 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 110201 355359008507100 21 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 110322 355359008507100 60 15821 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 110821 355359008507100 14 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 110943 355359008507100 69 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09871205522 22.07.2008 111114 355359008507100 33 12932 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 111548 355359008507100 17 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 112016 355359008507100 10 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 112402 355359008507100 17 15821 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01124616827 22.07.2008 112444 355359008507100 28 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 112640 355359008507100 21 15821 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 112720 355359008507100 181 15821 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 113101 355359008507100 12 15821 INC 404110200905394

430 MSISDN PARTY NUMBER S DATE S TIME IMEI DURA C.ID CT

919811721499 09871594917 22.07.2008 113126 355359008507100 115 10292 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09350397209 22.07.2008 113803 355359008507100 3 11642 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09350397209 22.07.2008 113816 355359008507100 40 11642 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 01141888325 22.07.2008 124143 355359008507100 85 22722 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 22.07.2008 135946 355359008507100 24 18232 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01122241559 22.07.2008 142608 355359008507100 176 19151 OUT 404110200905394 919811721499 01203925555 22.07.2008 143658 355359008507100 38 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09811871206 22.07.2008 162303 355359008507100 26 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09873210341 22.07.2008 162342 355359008507100 3 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09811871206 22.07.2008 162357 355359008507100 76 22722 INC 404110200905394 919811721499 09899299940 23.07.2008 141409 <> 1 <> CLFWD 404110200905394 919811721499 09899299940 24.07.2008 114344 <> 1 <> CLFWD 404110200905394 These are computer generated records by Vodafone. On 24.09.2008. The Records are strictly CONFIDENTIAL. The reference Number is 092055120824

431 APPENDIX XIII (Please see para 82 of the Report)

PARLIAMENT MATTER No. 16012/48/2008-UTP Government of India Ministry of Home Affairs North Block, New Delhi, Dated the 17th October, 2008

OFFICE MEMORANDUM

Subject: Committee to Inquire into the complaint made by three Members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on Motion of Confidence. The undersigned is directed to refer to Lok Sabha Secretariat U.O. No. 4/22/2008-P & E dated 25.8.08 and to furnish the pointwise reply which is as under:— Sl.No. Question Answer A. The reason for deployment of The Delhi Police was not informed about the personnel of Madhya Pradesh Police deployment of Madhya Pradesh Police at at Shri Ashok Argal’s residence. Shri Ashok Argal’s residence. B. Whether permission was obtained No request for any permission was received from the Ministry of Home Affairs/ from the Madhya Pradesh Police. Delhi Police by the Madhya Pradesh Police for deployment of their personnel at 4, Ferozeshah Road, New Delhi. C. The norms/rules governing deployment The rules governing deployment of State Police of personnel of one State’s Police Personnel in Delhi etc. is also enclosed for in another State. information. It is also stated that two P.S.O. have been deployed with Shri Ashok Argal, M.P. Lok Sabha at his residence No. 4, Ferozeshah Road, New Delhi w.e.f. 8.9.08.

Sd/- (A.K.Saxena) Director (Delhi) Phone 23094387 Encl: As above The Lok Sabha Secretariat (Privilege and Ethics Branch) (Attn. Shri Ashok Sajwan, Deputy Secretary) Parliament House, New Delhi.

432 NO. VI. 23014/95/97-VS GOVERNMENT OF INDIA/BHARAT SARKAR Ministry of Home Affairs/Grih Mantralaya New Delhi, 19th March, 2008 To, The Chief Secretaries of: (i) Govt. of Punjab, Chandigarh (ii) Govt. of Uttar Pradesh, Lucknow (iii) Govt. of Haryana, Chandigarh (iv) Govt. of Rajasthan, Jaipur (v) Govt. of J & K, Srinagar (vi) Govt. of Uttaranchal, Dehradun (vii) Govt. of Andhra Pradesh, Hyderabad (viii) Govt. of Assam, Guwahati. Subject: Deployment of State Police personnel in Delhi for providing security to the residents of Delhi. Sir, As you are aware, the responsibility of providing security to threatened persons lies with the concerned States/UTs, under whose, jurisdiction the protectee happens to be present. Delhi Police has however reported that some State Govts. have deployed their Police personnel in Delhi for providing security to the residents of Delhi. 2. The matter has been reviewed in this Ministry in consultation with the Central Security agencies and it has been felt that since providing security to thereatened persons in Delhi falls under the jurisdiction of Delhi Police only, the presence of security staff from other States in Delhi is not in accordance with the instructions contained in the Yellow Book. They may be impediment on certain occasions and also have a potential for misuse. It is also necessary that security is provided under the single chain of command so that there is no problem in fixing responsibility in case of any eventuality.

433 IMMEDIATE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (PM Division) 26, Man Singh Road, Jaisalmer House, New Delhi-110011

Subject: Committee to inquire into the complaint made by some members regarding alleged offer of money to them in connection with voting on the motion of confidence.

Reference your letter No. 16012/48/2008-UTP dated 03.10.2008 and reminder dated 08.10.2008 on the above mentioned subject. In this regard, I am directed to enclose herewith a copy of our letter No. VI-23014/95/97- VS dated 19th/24th March 2008 addressed to Chief Secretaries of certain States on the issue of deployment of State Police Personnel in Delhi for providing security to the residence of Delhi. Though, the letter was not specifically addressed to Govt. of Madhya Pradesh, the instructions in the above letter, as a policy matter, is applicable to all States including Madhya Pradesh.

sd/- (PRADEEP YADAV) Director (VS) Te l. 23385921 Director, Delhi (Dr. A.K. Saxena), MHA MHA ID No. VI-23014/127/98-VS Dated 14.10.2008

434 APPENDIX XIV (Please see para 86 of the Report)

LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT

COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO COMPLAINT BY SOME MEMBERS REGARDING ALLEGED OFFER OF MONEY TO THEM IN CONNECTION WITH VOTING ON THE CONFIDENCE MOTION. (Privileges and Ethics Branch) A Note On PROCEDURE FOR DEALING WITH COMPLAINTS AGAINST MEMBERS OF THE OTHER HOUSE On 22nd July, 2008 during debate on Motion of Confidence in the Council of Ministers, at about 16.04 hrs., Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, MPs came to the well of the House with two bags. Alleging the members were being offered money to vote in favour of Motion of Confidence, they took out wads of currency notes from the bags with them and placed the same on the Table of the House. Thereafter on 25th July, 2008 Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, M.Ps filed their joint complaint in the matter. On 26th July, 2008, Hon’ble Speaker constituted the Inquiry Committee to look into the matter. The Committee heard Shri Ashok Argal and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste on 04.08.2008. The Committee also heard Shri Sudhendra Kulkarni and Shri Suhail Hindustani, who were stated to be a part of the whistle-blowing operation, on 11.08.2008. The main allegation that emerges out of the written complaint and evidence tendered before the Committee is that Shri Amar Singh and Shri Ahmad Patel, M.Ps, were instrumental in the offering of money to Shri Ashok Argal, Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste and Shri Mahavir Bhagora, M.Ps, for voting in favour of the Government or abstaining from the voting on the Confidence Motion. Shri Ahmad Patel and Shri Amar Singh are Members of Rajya Sabha It is well established that “Neither House of Parliament can claim or exercise any authority over a Member of the other House” (Practice and Procedure of Parliament by M.L.Kaul and S.L. Shakdher, P. 299) The circumstances under which a need may arise for one House to exercise authority over a member of the other House may be stated as follows:— (a) A member of one House is alleged to have committed breach of privilege or contempt of the other House or its members or; and (b) Where a member of the one House is required to appear before the other House or any committee thereof.

435 Procedure if a question of privilege is sought be raised against a member of the other House 2. The Procedure for dealing with cases where a question of privilege is sought to be raised against a Member of the other House, has been stated by Kaul and Shakdher as follows:— “When a question of breach of privilege or contempt of the House is raised in either House in which a member, officer or servant of the other House is involved, the procedure followed is that Presiding Officer of the House in which the question of privilege is raised, refers the case to the Presiding Officer of the other House, only if he is satisfied on hearing the member who raises the question or on perusing any document where the complaint is based on document that a breach of privilege has been committed. Upon the case being so referred, it is the duty of the Presiding Officer of the other House to deal with the matter in the same way as if it were a case of breach of privilege of that House or of a member thereof. Thereafter, that Presiding Officer communicates to the Presiding Officer of the House where the question of privilege was originally raised, a report about the inquiry, if any and the action taken on the reference.” (p. 301) [This practice was established following the recommendations made to this effect in the Report of the Joint Sitting of Committee of Privileges of Lok Sabha and Council of States in 1954] Procedure for requiring appearance of member of one House before other House or any Committee thereof 3. During Second Lok Sabha a request was made by the Secretary of the Bombay Legislature Department for permitting Shri L.V. Valvi, Member, Lok Sabha, to appear before the Committee of Privileges of Bombay Legislative Assembly to give evidence. The Committee of Privileges (Second Lok Sabha) to whom the matter was referred, in their Third Report, which laid on the table of the House on 24.04.1958 and adopted by the House on 25.05.1958, recommended as follows:— “...that as in the present case the Secretary, Privileges Committee of the Bombay Legislative Assembly, has formally requested the Speaker, Lok Sabha to permit Shri L.V. Valvi, M.P., to tender evidence before the Committee of privileges of the Bombay Legislative Assembly, Shri Valvi may be permitted to appear before that Committee if he thinks fit.” The Committee, however, desired that the question of evolving a procedure in this regard may be examined in greater detail. 4. The Committee of Privileges (Second Lok Sabha) in their Sixth Report laid on the Table on 12.12.1958 and adopted by the House on 17.12.1958 observed and recommended as follows:— “In the United Kingdom, ‘attending as a witness before the other House or any Committee thereof without the leave of the House of which he is a member of officer’ would be regarded as a contempt of the House. (May’s Parliamentary, 16th Edition, page 117). The following procedure has to be followed if the witness, whose attendance is required, is a Member of the other House. ‘If the attendance of a Peer should be desired, to give evidence before the House, or any Committee of the House of Commons, the House sends a message to the Lords, to request

436 their lordships to give leave to the Peer in question to attend as a witness before the House or Committee, as the case may be. If the Peer should be in his place when this message is received, and he consents, leave is immediately given for him to be examined, his lordship consenting thereto; if the Peer be not present, the House gives leave for his lordship to attend ‘if he thinks fit’. Exactly the same form is observed by the Lords when they desire the attendance of a Member of the House of Commons’. (May’s Parliamentary Practice, 16th Edition, P. 669). As to the extent and nature of the Privilege or immunity of the Member the practice has been summarized thus in Hatsell: The result of the whole, to be collected either from the Journals or from the History of the Proceedings in the House of Commons, is, 1st that the Lords have no right whatever, on any occasion, to summon, much less to compel the attendance of, a Member of the House of Commons. 2ndly, that, in asking leave of the House of Commons for that attendance, the message ought to express clearly the ‘cause’ and ‘purpose’ for which the attendance is desired; in order that, when the Member appears before the Lords, no improper subject of examination may be tendered to him. 3rdly, The Commons, in answer to the Lords message, confine themselves to giving leave for the Member to attend, leaving him still at liberty to go or not, ‘as he shall think fit’. And, 4thly, the later practice has been, to wait until the Member named in the message is present in his place; and to hear his opinion whether he chooses to attend or not, before the House have proceeded even to taken the message into consideration. (Hatsell’s Precedents, Second Edition, Vol. III, pp. 20-21) Hatsell further states: ‘The leading principle, which appears to pervade all the proceedings between the two Houses of Parliament, is that there shall subsist a perfect equality with respect to each other; and that they shall be, in every respect, totally independent one of the other. From hence it is, that neither House can claim, much less exercise, any authority over a Member of the other; but if there is any ground of complaint against an act of the House itself, against any individual Member, or against any of the officers of either House, this complaint ought to be made to the House of Parliament where the offence is charged to be committed; and the nature and mode of redress, or punishment, if punishment is necessary, must be determined upon and inflicted by them. Indeed any other proceeding would soon introduce disorder and confusion; as it appears actually to have done in those instances, where both Houses, claiming a power independent of each other have exercised that power upon the same subject, but with different views and to contrary purposes.’ (Hatsell’s Precedents, Second Edition, Vol. III, pp. 61-62) The Committee are of the opinion that the House should not permit any one of its Members to give evidence, before the other House of Parliament or a Committee thereof or before a House of State Legislature or a Committee thereof, without a request desiring his attendance and without the consent of the Member whose attendance is required. Further, such requests from the other House of Parliament or a Committee thereof or by a House of State Legislature or a Committee thereof ought to express clearly the cause and purpose for which the attendance of the Member is desired.

437 The Committee recommend that no Member of the House should give evidence before the other House or a Committee thereof or before a House of state Legislature or Committee thereof, without the leave of the House being first obtained. When a request is received seeking leave of the House to a Member to give evidence before the other House or a Committee thereof or before a House of State Legislature or a Committee thereof, the matter may be referred by the Speaker to the Committee of Privileges. On a report from the Committee, a motion may be moved in the House by the chairman or a member of the Committee to the effect that the House agrees with the report and further action should be taken in accordance with the decision of the House.” 5. It may, however, be pertinent to note that the recommendation made by the Committee of Privileges in 1958 was based on the practice obtaining in the House of Commons at that time. The practice in House of commons has since, however, undergone a change. 6. According to May’s Parliamentary Practice (22nd Edition, p. 648), “Under Standing Order No. 138, the House of Commons has given a general leave to attend to any member requested to attend as a witness before a Lords Committee or its sub-committees, if the Member thinks fit. Under Lords Standing Order No. 22 (Lords attendance at Commons Select Committees) any Lord requested by a Committee of the Commons to attend as a witness before it or before any sub-committee appointed by it, is given leave to attend if he thinks fit. No messages are exchanged.” 7. Nevertheless since there has been no change in the procedure in India after 1958, any member of Rajya Sabha is felt required by the Inquiry Committee, we may have to follow same procedure as recommended by the Committee of Privileges (2nd Lok Sabha) cited above.

Course of action in the matter under consideration 8. The Inquiry Committee which is following the same procedure as is followed by the Committee of Privileges of any question as to breach of privilege of House, is functioning as a quasi-judicial body. Hence such Committees do the investigation and also arrive at their findings and conclusions in the matters and based on such findings and conclusions, they make appropriate recommendations. During investigation by such Committees all the Members/Persons against whom allegations have been made, appear before the Committees as witnesses. 9. As per the above procedure, the following submissions are made: (i) If the Committee considers it necessary to record the evidence of Shri Ahmad Patel or Shri Amar Singh or either of them, then a request would have to be made either by the Committee or more appropriately by Hon’ble Speaker, Lok Sabha to the Hon’ble Chairman, Rajya Sabha, in this regard. (ii) Thereafter Rajya Sabha would have to grant leave to the Members permitting them to appear before the Inquiry Committee as witnesses. (iii) Even if the Rajya Sabha were to grant leave permitting the members to appear before the Committee, they would be free either to appear before the Committee; thus the said two Members cannot be compelled to appear before the Committee as witnesses. 10. Based on the procedure obtaining in the matter and the submissions made above the Inquiry Committee may like to deliberate upon the matter.

438 APPENDIX XV (Please see Para 110 of the Report)

NOTE ON NARCO ANALYSIS* Narco-analysis is a process of psychotherapy conducted on a person by inducing a sleep-like state with the aid of barbiturates or other drugs. In Narco Analysis Test, the persons inhibitions are lowered by interfering with his nervous system at the molecular level. In this state, it becomes difficult though not impossible for him to lie. In such sleep-like state efforts are made to obtain “probative truth” about the crime. Experts inject a subject with hypnotics like Sodium Pentothal or Sodium Amytal under the controlled circumstances of the laboratory. The dose is dependent on the person’s sex, age, health and physical condition. The person who is put in a state of hypnotism is not a position to speak up on his own but can answer specific but simple questions after giving some suggestions. In India, the test is done by a team comprising of a anesthesiologist (who administers the drugs), a psychiatrist/physician (who certifies the subject’s fitness to undergo the test), a clinical/ forensic psychologist [who questions the subject, and also gathers and collates information such as first information reports (FIRs), autopsy reports, and prepares biographical data], an audio- videographer (who records the whole process) and supporting nursing staff. The forensic psychologist will prepare the report about the revelations, which will be accompanied by a compact disc of audio-video recordings. The strength of the revelations, if necessary, is further verified by subjecting the person to polygraph and brain mapping tests. In India, Narco-analysis is usually conducted at the Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL), Gandhinagar and the National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro-Sciences (NIMHANS), Bangalore (FSL, Bangalore). FSL, Bangalooru is the de facto hub for Narco-analysis for various police departments across the country. Here, the test is conducted using ‘sodium pentothal’ in conjunction with three other tests — psychological profiling, polygraph (the lie detector tests), and brain mapping. Although inhibitions are generally reduced, people under the influence of truth serums are still able to lie and even tend to fantasize. Legal position: Such tests generally don’t have legal validity as confessions made by semi-conscious persons are not admissible in court. The court may, however, grant limited admissibility after considering the circumstances under which the test was obtained. In the main, these tests can only assist police investigations. As the Indian Investigative Agencies conduct Narco-analysis tests (e.g. by CBI on Dr. Rajesh Talwar’s compounder Krishna in Bangalore) the legality of such an intrusive test remains under question, particularly in the absence of any specific provision under the existing law to regulate it. Narco-analysis and brain mapping tests have been criticized as being illegal and unconstitutional on the ground that these violate Article 20(3) of the Constitution that says, “No persons accused

*Based on information gathered from internet.

439 of any offence shall be compelled to be a witness against himself”. Further, it has been argued that these intrusive tests apparently violate the ‘right to privacy’ of the suspect/accused that formed part of right to life and liberty, guaranteed under Article 21 of the Constitution. Various High Courts have given their rulings on the issue. In Dinesh Dalmia vs. State of Maharashtra, the Madras High Court ruled that Narco-analysis testimony was not by compulsion because the accused may be taken to the laboratory for such tests against his will, but the revelation during such tests is quite voluntary. The High Court was convinced that it was possible to compel one to testify voluntarily. However, the above case is in stark contrast with the judgement of an eleven-judge Bench in the case of State of Bombay vs. Kathi Kalu Oghad, where it was observed that self-incrimination means conveying information based upon personal knowledge of the persons and cannot include merely the mechanical process of producing documents in court. In 2004, the Bombay High Court ruled in the multi-crore fake stamp paper case that subjecting an accused to certain tests like Narco-analysis does not violate the fundamental right against self-incrimination. Statements made under narco-analysis are not admissible in evidence. However, recoveries resulting from such drugged interviews are admissible as corroborative evidence. The Supreme Court, in November 2006, ordered a stay on a metropolitan judge’s order to conduct Narco-analysis on K. Venkateswara Rao, in the Krushi Co-operative Urban Bank case. Shri Rao refused to sign a consent form, and to its credit, the FSL, Gandhinagar, refused to conduct the test without the signed consent form. The Supreme Court decision on the case is awaited and will have a significant bearing on the use of Narco-analysis in India. While expert studies and court opinions available internationally have granted that there may be some use in Narco-analysis, the overwhelming evidence is that Narco-analysis is by no means a reliable science.

440 APPENDIX XVI (Please see para 110 of the Report)

A

REPORT

ON

BRAIN ELECTRO PHYSIOLOGY BASED TECHNOLOGIES FOR FORENSIC INTERROGATION IN INDIA

BY

PEER-REVIEW COMMITTEE

HEADED BY

PROF. D. NAGARAJA, DIRECTOR NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MENTAL HEALTH AND NEUROSCIENCES (NIMHANS, BANGALORE)

441 Technical Peer-Review of The Brain Electrophysiology Based Technologies Used at Forensic Science Labs in Bangalore and Gandhinagar

Final Report—May 2008

CHAIRMAN OF THE PEER-REVIEW COMMITTEE

Professor D. Nagaraja, Director-Vice Chancellor, National Institute of Mental Health and Neurosciences, Bangalore-560 029

442 CONTENTS

No. Content Page 0.0 Composition of the Committee 1.0 Brief Overview of Background 2.0 Outline of the Peer-Review Process 3.0 First Meeting of the Peer-Review Committee 4.0 Questionnaire based assessment of the techniques 5.0 Comparative Profile of Information obtained through questionnaire 6.0 Visit to the Forensic Science Labs and Second meeting of the Committee 7.0 Review of Technique used at FSL, Bangalore 8.0 Review of Technique used at FSL, Gandhinagar 9.0 Summary of the current scientific status 10.0 Remarks obtained from FSL, Bangalore on the Draft Report 11.0 Response to Remarks obtained from FSL, Bangalore on the Draft Report 12.0 Remarks obtained from FSL, Gandhinagar on the Draft Report 13.0 Response to Remarks obtained from FSL, Gandhinagar on the Draft Report 14.0 Observations and Recommendations 15.0 Appendices Appendix # 1 Letter of Committee Composition Appendix # 2A Evaluation Feedback Documents from FSL, Bangalore Appendix # 2B Remarks obtained from FSL, Bangalore on the Draft Report Appendix # 3A Evaluation Feedback Documents from FSL, Gandhinagar Appendix # 3B Remarks obtained from FSL, Gandhinagar on the Draft Report Appendix # 4 Report Document on Federal Agency views on Brain fingerprinting Appendix # 5 TIFAC-DFS Project Data Presentation documents

443 COMPOSITION OF THE COMMITTEE

Chairman Professor D. Nagaraja, Director/Vice-Chancellor, NIMHANS, Bangalore-560 029

Members (1) Dr. Narayanan Srinivasan Senior Faculty, Centre for Behavioural and Cognitive Sciences, University of Allahabad, Allahabad-211 002 (2) Dr. Narayan Dutt, Professor, Department of ECE, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore (3) Dr. N. Pradhan, Professor and Head, Department of Psychopharmacology, NIMHANS, Bangalore (4) Dr. G. Venkatasubramanian, Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, NIMHANS, Bangalore (5) Dr. M.S. Rao, Director and Chief Forensic Scientist, Directorate of Forensic Science, New Delhi

444 1.0 Brief Overview of Background

1.1 Brain Fingerprinting

Brain fingerprinting is a technique that examines recognition of familiar stimuli by measuring electrical brain wave responses to words, phrases, or pictures that are presented on a computer screen. This technique developed by Farwell uses electrical brain responses to detect the presence or absence of information stored in the brain. The theory is that the suspect’s reaction to the details of an event or activity will reflect if the suspect had prior knowledge of the event or activity. This test uses the Memory and Encoding Related Multifaceted Electroencephalographic Response [MERMER] to detect familiarity reaction [Farwell LA, Smith SS. Using brain MERMER testing to detect knowledge despite efforts to conceal. J Forensic Sci. 2001 Jan; 46(1): 135-43].

1.2 Need for scientific peer-review

Related brain electrophysiology techniques are being used in Indian forensic settings. These techniques used in India (Brain Mapping/BEOS) has been in increasing demand. Looking at the demand by the Investigating agencies and judiciary, and the advancement, the Directorate of Forensic Science (Govt. of India) felt the need to review and scrutinize the scientific basis of these techniques. Since these techniques involved neuroscientific principles and procedures, NIMHANS—the pioneer institute of neurosciences in India—was identified by the Chief Forensic Scientist (Dr. M.S. Rao) to take up the review process. (Appendix # 1—Copy of the letter by Dr. M.S. Rao, Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist).

1.3 Composition of the Committee

The Committee was constituted under the Chairmanship of Professor D. Nagaraja, Director/ Vice-Chancellor, National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences [NIMHANS], Bangalore. The other committee members were as follows:

(1) Dr. Narayanan Srinivasan, Senior Faculty, Centre for Behavioural and Cognitive Sciences, University of Allahabad, Allahabad-211 002 (2) Dr. Narayanan Dutt, Professor, Department of ECE, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore (3) Dr. N. Pradhan, Professor and Head, Department of Psychopharmacology, NIMHANS, Bangalore (4) Dr. G. Venkatasubramanian, Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, NIMHANS, Bangalore The composition of the above Committee by Dr. M.S. Rao (Director and Chief Forensic Scientist) was arrived at keeping in view the specialization of the members of the Committee in the relevant fields. 445 1.4 Purpose and Focus of the technical peer-review The purpose and focus were identified as below: 1. The purpose of the Committee would be to evaluate the scientific basis of various brain electrophysiology techniques that are being used in forensic labs in India (for example BEOS, Brainmapping] 2. The focus of the present meeting would be to define the Committee’s role in this review process and identify specific processes through which this review could be done. 2.0 Outline of the Peer-Review Process Committee constituted under the Chairmanship of Professor D. Nagaraja ↓ First Meeting of the Committee ↓ Preliminary Presentation by the FSLs/Tool Developers/Suppliers ↓ Scientific Evaluation through comprehensive questionnaire ↓ Visit to the Forensic Science Labs in Bangalore and Gandhinagar ↓ Independent Scientific Analyses of techniques by the Committee ↓ Second meeting of the Committee to finalize draft report ↓ Feedback obtained from FSLs and Experts on draft report ↓ Final Report Preparation 3.0 First Meeting of the Peer-Review Committee A meeting to discuss the principles, focus and process of the technical peer-review of the Brain electrophysiology based technologies developed and used in forensic labs was convened under the Chairmanship of Dr. D. Nagaraja, Director/Vice-Chancellor, NIMHANS, Bangalore on 16 June 2007. This meeting was attended by the Chief Forensic Scientist, Dr. M.S. Rao and other members of the Committee (Appendix # 1—Copy of the letter by Dr. M.S. Rao, Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist) [(Dr. N. Pradhan, Dr. Narayana Dutt and Dr. G. Venkatasubramanian)— Dr. Narayanan Srinivasan was unavailable for the meeting.] 3.1 Topics Discussed in the Meeting The following topics were briefly discussed in the meeting: (1) Farwell’s Brain Fingerprinting (2) Techniques Used in India (3) Daubert Standard (with relevance to the scientific aspects of an evidence)

446 The Chairman remarked that the forensic tool should have a valid scientific basis as well as established error rates (false positive and false negative) and prediction rates. Issues related to the following factors were discussed in detail: 1. Scientific basis of the theory of the techniques 2. Probes used in the techniques 3. Recording procedures 4. Mathematical basis of the analyses 5. The role of artifacts 6. Normative data and Error Rate details

3.2 Preliminary presentations by the FSLs/Tool Developers

On the request of Dr. M.S. Rao, following this, the manufacturers/suppliers of these tools to FSL made their preliminary presentations.

Summary of presentation by M/s Axxonet Solutions Pvt. Ltd. [Suppliers of the equipment to FSL, Gandhinagar, Gujarat] represented by Dr. C.R. Mukundan and Mr. Chetan.

The tool called as “Brain Electrical Oscillation Signal” Analysis tool with required accessories is supplied by the manufacturers. The tool consists of an EEG machine, probe delivery system and a computer for performing the analysis. This tool uses a single trial analysis with no averaging. The following are some of the hardware specifications optimized frequency range: 0.016-100 Hz; high pole filters; use of AC amplifiers; no notch filters are used. The software performs 16 bit capture A/D; 15.2 nV resolution/bit; SNR: 2 micro-volt.

The real time data acquisition is done along with a video camera locked to the system. Autonomic measures are also assessed and they are not incorporated in the analysis. The data is encrypted and analyzed using various mathematical analyses namely, repeat measures ANOVA, wavelet based analysis, FFT, ICA, PCA, gamma coherence analysis, moving window analysis (of 300 mill sec duration) and various other analyses.

Summary of the presentation by M/s Alliance Biomedical [suppliers of the equipment to FSL, Bangalore, Karnataka]

The manufacturers have supplied an ERP system—32 Channel Syn-amps Neuroscan, SCAN software as well as the Stim Package to the FSL, Bangalore. The tool is capable of task creation in the form of generating auditory or visual stimuli and acquiring ERPs. Though the manufacturer provides maintenance services, they do not claim to play any role in acquisition or analysis of forensic data.

Following the presentations, on the request of Dr. M.S. Rao, the Directors of the FSL, Gandhinagar (Dr. S.L. Vaya) and (Dr. Rukmini Krishnamurthy) were called and they made presentation related to the status of the tool applications in their respective FSL. Following these presentations, it was decided that a detailed questionnaire need to be prepare to obtain further details about these tools with focus on the above-mentioned factors.

447 4.0 Questionnaire based assessment of the techniques Two separate quationnaires [one for the Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL) that uses the technique and the other for the manufacturer of the equipment used for the technique] were prepared to obtain comprehensive details with relevance to the principle, procedures as well as personnel involved in these forensic brain electrophysiology techniques. Specific questions were framed to elicit whether these techniques met the standards proposed by the “Picton TW, Bentin S, Berg P, Donchin E, Hillyard SA, Johnson R Jr, Miller GA, Ritter W, Ruchkin DS, Rugg MD, Taylor MJ. Guidelines for using human event-related potentials to study cognition: recording standards and publication criteria. Psychophysiology. 2000 Mar; 37(2): 127-52.” 5.0 Comparative Profile of FSL Feedbacks [Copies of the Feedback documents are attached Appendix # 2A [FSL, Bangalore] and #3A [FSL, Gandhinagar] No. Item Response Status of the Feedback by FSL FSL Bangalore Gandhinagar 12 3 4

1. Name & Address of the Provided Provided Forensic Lab 2. Contact Details of Officer-in- Provided Provided charge 3. Preliminary Details of the tool Partial Provided 4. Details of the procedure Provided Provided

5. Scientific Basis of the Literature on P300 Literature on various Technique (Specifically peer- cited. cognitive research reviewed publications in However, there studies cited. indexed journals that are was no citation that However, there was directly relevant for forensic offers direct no citation that offers applications) support to the direct support to the scientific basis for scientific basis for forensic forensic application. application.

6. Scientific Basis of the Reference to Some indigenous Computational Techniques MATLAB and description without SYSTAT are given citation support without further provided. details about the specifics.

448 12 3 4

7. Hardware Details of the Tool It has been mentioned Provided that the manufacturer provided the relevant information which is yet to be received in hard copy format. 8. Background Research It is mentioned that Mentioned as ongoing (Normative Data) technical evaluation report has been submitted to MIT, Govt. of India. 9. Whether standards of Partial Partial Electrophysiology research have been met.

6.0 Visits to the FSLs to examine the techniques The FSl, Bangalore was visited on 29.10.2007 (Dr. D. Nagaraja, Dr. Pradhan and Dr. Venkatasubramanian along with Dr. M.S. Rao) and FSL Gandhinagar was visited on 28-30.11.2007 (Dr. Venkatasubramanian with Dr. M.S. Rao being present in the meeting on normative data presentation) to examine techniques. The various aspects of the procedures and data and relevant material obtained from the FSLs were critically examined by the committee members over the next few weeks. The observations made were presented and discussed in a meeting at NIMHANS on 8th January 2008 (chaired by Dr. D. Nagaraja and attended by Dr. M.S. Rao, Dr. Pradhan and Dr. Narayan Dutt). For this second meeting, Professor Venimadhavan from the Indian Institute of Science was also invited by Dr. M.S. Rao. All the observations and relevant documents were available to all the committee members during the second meeting. Moreover, both Dr. Venkatasubramanian and Dr. M.S. Rao who were present in the meeting at Gandhinagar on 30th November 2007 shared the contents of the presentation on the above-mentioned date and the complete print out of the power point presentation was provided to all the committee members. The summary of the observations made by the committee with relevance to the scientific basis of the above-mentioned techniques were as follows: 7.0 Review of Brain Mapping Procedures in FSL, Bangalore Principle of Brain Mapping The brain mapping technique used in FSL, Bangalore for forensic purposes is reported to be based on P300 analysis. The P300 is a neural evoked potential and this event-related potential (ERP) appears as a positive deflection of the Electroencephalogram voltage at approximately 300 ms and it dominates at parietal electrode sites. The P300 is supposed to follow unexpected sensory stimuli or stimuli that provide useful information to the subjects according to his/her task. The technique uses the P300, which is emitted from an individual’s brain approximately 300 milliseconds after it is confronted with a stimulus, has a special significance to that individual (e.g. a murder weapon or a victim’s face). Brain Fingerprinting—Procedure. The person to be

449 tested wears a special headband with electronic sensors that measure the Electroencephalogram (EEG) from several locations on the scalp. The system does not require the testee to issue verbal responses to questions or stimuli. The testee is presented with a series of irrelevant stimuli. Words, and pictures, and a series of relevant stimuli, words and pictures. The test subject’s brain response to these two different types of stimuli allow the testor to determine if the measured brain responses to test stimuli, called probes are more similar to the relevant or irrelevant responses. The role of P300 in forensic investigations is controversial. Also, P300 can be influenced by various physiological as well as pathological states. A PubMed search did not yield any definitive evidence-based peer-reviewed publication that offers unequivocal support to the utility of P300 for forensic purposes. On the contrary, some of the recent peer-reviewed international publications have expressed reservations regarding its use as evidence—for example, an article by Dickson & McMohan published in the Journal of Law & Medicine 2005 has made the following comments— “This article considers whether brain fingerprinting (BF) could be used for crime investigation and adjudication in Australia. By examining the rules of expert evidence and the principles relating to “novel scientific evidence”, the admissibility of BF in the various Australian jurisdictions is evaluated. The utility of BF in criminal investigations and counter-terrorism initiatives is also convassed. The authors conclude that, at the present time, it is unlikely that expert testimony on BF will be admitted in Australian criminal trials.” P300 wave can potentially be confounded by various factors. A summary of these factors are listed below. These factors have been mentioned in Polich & Herbst—International Journal of Electrophysiology 2000 [Dickson K, McMohan M. Will the law come running? The potential role of “brain fingerprinting” in crime investigation and adjudication in Australia. J Law Med. 2005 Nov; 13(2): 204-22.] Factors that can influence P300

Factor Amplitude Latency Comment

1234

Natural Circadian Indirect Indirect Circadian body changes affect P300 measures Body temperature No Yes Increased temperature, decreased latency Heart fate No Yes Faster heart rate, decreased latency Food intake Yes Some Amplitude increases, latency shorter Activity time Yes Some Food interacts with activity preference time Ultradian Some Yes 90-mun latency cycles Seasonal yes No seasons with light, increased amplitude Menstrual No No Neutral stimuli, no effects Induced Exercise Indirect Direct Affects overall arousal level Tonic Yes Yes Increases amplitude, decreases latency Chronic No Yes Decreased latency, variable results across studies Fatigue Yes Yes Decreased amplitude, increased latency Drugs (common) Yes Yes Specific drug, arousal level, tonic/chronic use

450 1234

Caffeine Some Yes Amplitude increases if fatigued latency decreases Nicotine Small Yes Weak amplitude effects, latency decreases Alcohol Acute Yes Yes Amplitude decreases, latency increases Chronic No No Social drinking: no permanent long-term effects Alcoholism risk Yes No At-risk: smaller amplitudes with visual tasks Constitutional Age Yes Yes Modality, task, response parameters important Children Yes Yes Amplitude increases, latency decreases Adults Yes Yes Amplitude decreases, latency increases Intelligence Yes Yes Amplitude from complex tasks smaller for more Intelligent, latency shorter for perceptual/ speeded Classification tasks for more intelligent Handedness Yes Yes Amplitude left > right for frontal/central sites latency left< right for frontal/central sites Gender Small Small Amplitude female> male, latency female< male Personality Yes No Amplitude, introverts < extroverts Genetic Yes Yes Amplitude and latency genetically determined

[Polich J, Herbst KL. P300 as a clinical assay: rationale, evaluation, and findings. Int J Psychophysiol. 2000 Oct; 38(1): 3-19.] P300 definition and the brain mapping Using the data provided by the FSL (Bangalore), a random examination some of the wave- forms of target as well as neutral stimuli were examined. This data was plotted using MATALB to assess the conformity of waveforms with relevance to P300. The observations suggested significant deviations from the accepted norms in the terms of morphology as well as latency (The plots depicit the wave-forms without any filter or other parameter modification). Fig. 1. Target induced brain wave changes in CPz

451 Fig. 2. Target induced brain wave changes in FZ

Eye-Movement Artifacts It was also observed that there existed simultaneous potential influence of eye-movements. [Figures are attached herewith]

Fig. 3 shows simultaneous changes in vertical eye movement leads during the occurrence of above depicted target related electrophysiological changes

452 Fig. 4 shows simultaneous changes in horizontal eye movement lead during the occurrence of above depicted target related electrophysiological changes

Impact of the probes The probes related to target and neutral stimuli—while differing with relevance to the theme of “crime related information” also have potentially significant other non-specific differences which might themselves contribute to the differential P300 response. Ideally, probes need to be designed to enhance the specificity of the response elicited. 8.0 Review of Brain Electrical Oscillation Signature [BEOS] Profiling in FSL, Gandhinagar Review of the BEOS Procedure The BEOS is intended to demonstrate that the suspects who have primary encoded information or those who have participated in the suspected events will show responses indicating first hand (personally acquired) knowledge of the event. The activation of the brain is carried out by presenting probes containing list of word(s) related to various possibilities that the IO wanted to confirm from the subject, as well as the version of the events revealed by the subject. The activation of the associated experiential knowledge gives rise to a typical event related changes in the electrical oscillation pattern of the brain. If the subject had not participated in the event, the words presented to the subject will fail to evoke such specific changes. The said change is considered a signature of the experience acquired by the brain of the individual while undergoing the experience by participating in the related acts. The procedure and the analyses identify the “knowledge of the event” as “experiential knowledge [EK]”. The material provided (which is not a peer-reviewed publication) states EK as 453 “Components of experience constituted by sensory imageries and their interpretation into information, signals received through proprioception, molor imageries, and emotions:” The “EK” does not have any supporting peer-reviewed published literature to validate the concept. Moreover, the relevance of EK in the context of forensic application needs to be established by normative data [preliminary reports on the normative data by FSL, Gandhinagar and its critique are provided in later portion of the document]. The Impact of the Probes In BEOS, each category of probe examines a specific hypothesis using highly focussed and related statements presented as part or full sentence. A person may be subjected to several probes depending on the needs of the case. The words in each probe is expected to activate the associated memory/experience in the subject, if the subject truly has had participated in the said act. The probes are coded to indicate the intended content by the scientific officer. For example— ARA means action recall with awareness affirmation. Given this aspect of the procedure, it seems possible that the coding of probes might have an influence on the “EK”. To examine this, an experiment was conducted where a set of recordings (accused with controls) was examined. In this experiment, it was found that coding all the probes as “ARA” could increase the “EK’s by as much as 66%. Also, coding all the probes as “L”—Link could decrease the “EK’s by 100%. Details of these analyses are attached herewith in Table-2. Table 2. Influence of the Probe IDs on “Experiential Knowledge”

No. Recording Probe Status No. of EKs

1. Recording—1 (Accused) Unmodified 6 2. Recording—1 All coded ARA 10—(66% Increase) 3. Recording—2 Unmodified 13 (Control Investigating Officer) 4. Recording—2 All coded ARA 15—(15% Increase) 5. Recording—3 Unmodified 8 (Control Press Reporter) 6. Recording—3 All coded ARA 12—(50% Increase) 7. Recording—4 Unmodified 25 8. Recording—4 All coded “L” 0—100% Decrease

Recording and Analysis—The Impact of Eye Movements The influence of “eye-movements” on “EK” was examined. It appeared that there seemed to a correlation between the occurrence of “eye-movements” and the occurrence of “EK”. The influence of these artefacts needs further rigorous examination.

454 Fig.

Influence of the different versions of the BEOS on EK Also the version of the software that was used to examine the “EK” seemed to have a significant effect on the EK. From an experiment conducted by one of the research staff at FSL, Gandhinagar, it appeared that NSS analysis can increase the occurrence of EKs by as much as 300% with all other aspects of analysis remaining the same. Specificity of “EK” The Normative data analysis (presented at the meeting at FSL Gandhinagar on 30th November 2007) strongly suggested that “EK” may not be differentially specific. Even carefully designed probes by an experienced expert for the study has failed to be specific. The irrelevant probes have elicited the same number of EKs as the relevant probes. The striking finding is contradictory to the very basic principle of “EK” and in turn the whole of the proposed postulates of “EK”. 9.0 Summary of the current scientific status of the brain electrophysiological techniques with relevance to forensic applications No. Criteria FSL, Bangalore FSL, Gandhinagar

1. Scientific Basis for forensic Sub-Optimal Sub-Optimal Application 2. Peer Reviewed publication with None None relevance to normative data 3. Potential Error Rate Unknown Unknown 4. Procedural Standards Needs Optimization Needs Optimization 5. Scientific Acceptance Not Unequivocal Not Unequivocal

455 Point-to-Point Response to the remarks document provided by the Forensic Science Laboratory, Bangalore in response to the peer review committee’s draft recommendations Response to Remark (a) The remark is with relevance to the legal scenario, whereas the objective of the peer-review of the committee is to evaluate the scientific aspects of the brain mapping procedures used. Response to Remark (b) It is important to note that one of the needs for the scientific peer-review as stated by Dr. M.S. Rao, Director-cum-chief forensic scientist is that “such technical scrutiny and peer review will enhance the credibility of the methodologies, procedures from the point of view of evidence as it is a part of Daubert’s criteria”. Moreover, during the deliberations of the peer review committee all the committee members unanimously accepted the relevance and importance of Daubert’s criteria for the scientific review. Response to Remark (c) The draft version of the observations and recommendations were discussed with Prof. Venimadhavan (Prof. of Computer Science and Office automation, IISc., Bangalore) by the committee members in the presence of Dr. M.S. Rao, Chief Forensic Scientist. Also the complete set of observations and recommendations draft was sent to him with a request for his valuable feedback in case if his views were different from that of the committee. The Committee did not receive any difference of opinion from Prof. Venimadhavan. Response to Remark (d) and (e) It is important to note that there is no unequivocal scientific support for the use of P300 in forensic investigation. Moreover, a detailed report by the United States General Accounting Office on the federal agency views to the Honourable Charles E. Grassley, U.S. Senate did not support the use of P300 & related techniques in forensic settings. (Copy of the report attached as Appendix #4) Response to Remark (f) The biological factors contributing to the variance are very well applicable to a significant proportion of subjects tested in forensic setting since persons indulging in crime are prone for association with substance/psychiatric disorders as well as disease affecting the brain [Example Reference Publications: (1) Hodgins S: Mental disorder, intellectual deficiency, and crime: evidence from a birth cohort. Arch Gen Psychiatry 1992; 49:476-483; (2) Male criminals with organic brain syndrome: two distinct types based on age at first arrest. Am J Psychiatry. 2001 Jul; 158(7): 1099-104.] Response to Remark (g) The second set of selected records provided by FSL, Bangalore was examined in the presence of Dr. Malini, Asst. Director, FSL, Bangalore (as requested by the Director, FSL, Bangalore). The procedure of analysis was explained and demonstrated. Some of the records in the second set did show orientation characteristics suggestive of P300 however, with a prolonged latency. This supports the appropriateness of the methodology used by the peer-review committee. Except for selected records, many did no show P300 response. Also, in many of previous records there were

456 significant waveform changes that indicative of potential eye movement artifacts. Moreover, P300 is influenced by a host of physiological state alterations. Also, the role of intense emotional state variations on P300 modulation is profound. This highlights the need for comprehensive data collection to quantify the sensitivity and specificity. Moreover, lack of direct supportive published peer-reviewed literature by the FSL, Bangalore to elucidate the sensitivity, specificity and related predictive values discourages the use of the Brain mapping in forensic setup in the current scenario & warrants systematic research to establish its validity. Point-to-Point Response to the remarks document provided by the Forensic Science Laboratory, Bangalore in response to the peer review committee’s draft recommendations Response to Remark No. 1.2 and 1.3 No direct support to the claims made by the above-mentioned remarks in the form of peer- reviewed scientific publication to validate the term “Brain Electrical Oscillations Signature Profiling” was available on PubMed search with the same phrase as on 12 May 2008 (Screen Capture Image of the PubMed Search Attached underneath). The theoretical basis for this technique needs to fulfil this basic & important requirement. PubMed Search done on 12 May 2008

Remark No. 1.4 As per this remark, the BEOS can NEITHER be used as a material in a court of law NOR can this be used in subjects who have physchoactive substance related disorders, mental illness and diseases affecting the brain. Critically, persons indulging in crime are prone for association with substance/psychiatric disorders as well as disease affecting the brain [Example Reference Publications:1) Hodgins S: Mental disorder, intellectual deficiency, and crime: evidence from a brith cohort. Arch Gen Psychiatry 1992; 49:476-483; (2) Male criminals with organic brain syndrome; two distinct types based at first arrest. Am J Psychiatry. 2001 Jul; 158 (7) : 1099-104.]

457 The critical limitation of the technique (as admitted by the developer of BEOS) strongly supports the recommendations of the peer review committee. Response to Remark No. 1.5 Lack of scientific basis decisively discourages the use of BEOS for use as an aid in investigation. Further, the use of BEOS in subjects in whom certain disorders (substance/psychiatric/brain disease) are likely to be more prevalent (where BEOS cannot be used as accepted by the developer) strongly supports the above-mentioned recommendation. Response to Remark No. 1.6 Scientific Basis The references to studies provided by the developer are not directly supportive of BEOS. No direct support to the claims made by the above-mentioned remarks in the form of peer-reviewed scientific publication to validate the term “Brain Electrical Oscillations Signature Profiling” was available on PubMed search with the same phrase as on 12 May 2008 (Screen Capture Image of the PubMed Search Attached as above). While the publication of “technique” might influence patent processing, publication of valid scientific basis for theoretical tenets underlying BEOS may not influence patent processing. In fact, “theoretical formulations” are non-patentable (as per the Indian Patent Act). Given this, the claim by the developer (2nd paragraph of remark no 1.6) that “any publication even by the inventor can disqualify claims for patent” does not seem to be valid. Response to Remark II—The Impact of the probes Lack of direct support for scientific basis of probe preparations for use in BEOS critically limits the claims made in the remark. Random examination of the recordings at the FSL, Gandhinagar suggested that probe IDs contributed to significant variance and can simply by themselves influence the results. This examination was performed to infer whether serious tautological errors lead to inadvertent results. The results show that the analysis is prone for such errors. The claim “the new version of BEOS does not allow any change of probe or ID once it is presented to a subject” simply eliminates the possibility for an unbiased scientific scrutiny of the method—so that the potential tautological errors can never be examined. Response to Remark III—Recording & Analysis—The Impact of eye movement The presence of eye movement artefacts in many of the so-called “EK” interpretations was unanimously interpreted & agreed upon by all the committee members. Response to Remark IV—Specificity of EK It is important to re-iterate that the meeting in Gandhinagar on 30th November 2007 was attended by Dr. M.S. Rao (Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist) who was also representing the committee in addition to one of the other committee members. Hence, the Committee was represented by two members and Dr. M.S. Rao was also present in the subsequent meeting at NIMHANS, Bangalore. Also, it is important to note that the complete print outs of the power point presentations made on the data analysis of the DFS-TIFAC project at FSL, Gandhinagar was provided to the chairman as well as all the committee members at the subsequent meeting held at NIMHANS to finalize the draft recommendations and hence it is re-iterated that the recommendations

458 reflect the consensus of the committee members and not just the representative members who attended the data analysis presentation meeting at Gandhinagar. The claim by the BEOS developer that specificity of the test as between 0.9 and 1 can potentially be just the tautological error behind the technique. Hence it was decided by the committee not to attach importance to these values. Moreover, the BEOS technique (in addition to completely lack of scientific support in terms of directly relevant peer reviewed publication for the theoretical claims by the developer) appears to be non-specific in the context of ‘irrelevant probe’ analysis. It is important to note that this has happened despite the context that these ‘irrelevant’ probes were prepared by none other than the expert developer. This reflects the need for further research to standardize the probe creation. During the subsequent meeting at NIMHANS to finalize draft recommendations, all the committee members were unanimously curious & failed to understand the reasons behind the “scenario 9” (which deals with irrelevant probes) being left out from further analysis. The final report has added the complete power point presentation print out of the data analysis to ensure transparency and further scrutiny (Appendix # 5). Response to Remark No. V The impression by the committee that the electrophysiological research standards have been partially met is based on the response documents by the FSL, Gandhinagar as well as the developer in response to the assessment questionnaire (Response documents copy provided as Appendix # 3). This assessment questionnaire is based on “Picton TW, Bentin S, Berg P, Donchin E, Hillyard SA, Johnson R Jr, Miller GA, Ritter W, Ruchkin DS, Rugg MD, Taylor MJ. Guidelines for using human event-related potentials to study cognition: recording standards and publication criteria. Psychophysiology. 2000 Mar37(2): 127—52”. Response to Remark No. VI It is important to note that the complete peer review documents and informations were available to all the expert members and hence it is re-iterated that the recommendations reflect the consensus of the committee members and not just the representative member who attended the data analysis presentation meeting at Gandhinagar. Also, the committee was constituted by Dr. M.S. Rao, Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist who has mentioned in his letter “The composition of the above committee has been arrived at keeping in view the specialization of the members of the committee in the relevant fields” (Copy of the letter dated 26 May 2007 is attached as Appendix # 1). Response to Remark No. VII The committee was constituted by Dr. M.S. Rao, Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist for systematic evaluation of the scientific basis of the technique. Response to Conclusions Response to Conclusions Nos. 3 and 4 The “committee member” referred to in these conclusions should actually be mentioned as “committee members” since two experts (it is important to note that one of them being Dr. M.S. Rao, Chief Forensic Scientist) attended the TIFAC project review meeting on 30th November 2007 in Gandhinagar.

459 Response to Conclusion No. 8 Conclusion No. 8 states “it is apparent that no competent expert in the neurocognitive functions of the brain was involved in preparing the review report”. The committee would like to highlight that the report is a consensus document of all the committee members this conclusion on the expertise of the committee has been made by the same expert developer who had made a preliminary presentation in the presence of the committee members on 16th June 2007 as well as on 30th November 2007 without any such remarks. Response to other conclusions The other conclusions appear to be the summary of the respective numbered remarks by the developer of BEOS. Hence, the above respective responses will address the issues pointed out in the conclusions too. 14.0 Recommendations by the Committee 1. Review of the brain electrophysiology based techniques (brain mapping used in FSL Bangalore and BEOS used in FSL Gandhinagar) suggests sub-optimal scientific basis for them to be used as evidence in court of law. Hence they cannot be used as evidence in the court of law. 2. Rigorous research needs to be done to examine the following aspects ascertain its use in forensic set up: i. Basic Research in cognitive processes related to deception/information/experience and the potential confounding influence of various pragmatic factors (especially those that have relevance to forensic set up like head injury, seizures) on these cognitive processes. The relevance of them in Indian setting (for example the influence of various languages and similar others) need to be established by peer reviewed indexed publications. ii. Recording procedures need to satisfy optimal standards. The experiments need to be carried out in standardized labs satisfying established guidelines. iii. The operational procedures need to be uniform across various labs. The explicit criteria for interpretation and report need to be established with valid scientific basis. The differential specificity of the probes and report need to be performed with appropriate controls (positive and neutral) for case-by-case basis. iv. Standardization of probe creation—the influence of language, voice of the creator and various other important characteristics like duration of probe presentation, the modality of probe presentation and similar others need extensive research. v. Extensive work on normative data to quantify the false positivity, false negativity, positive and negative predictive values and the influence of various parameters— socio-demographic, biological, psychological, disease states and similar other relevant factors—need to be done. They have to be published in peer-reviewed indexed journals. vi. All these experimental works need to be subjected to transparent review by an expert committee to evaluate the validity and reliability of the findings. Only after this, this technique might have the potential to be used as one of the investigative tools.

460 «UÊ. ∞◊.∞‚. ⁄UÊfl ãÿÊÿÊÁ‹∑§ ÁflôÊÊŸ ÁŸŒ‡ÊÊ‹ÿ DR. M.S. RAO ªÎ„U ◊¢òÊÊ‹ÿ, ÷Ê⁄Uà ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist é‹Ê∑§ ~, Ë Ÿ¢. } ∑§ãº˝Ëÿ ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ ¬Á⁄U‚⁄U ‹ÙœË ⁄UÙ«U, Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-vvÆ ÆÆx

Directorate of Forenstic Science Ministry of Home Affairs, Govt. of India Block No. 9, 8th Floor, C.G.O. Complex Lodhi Road, New Delhi-110 003 (India) Ref. No. DFS/BEOS/08 Dated: 15th May 2008 Dear Dr. Nagaraja Kindly refer to your fax No. D-FSL/2008 dated 13th May 2008. As already peer review committee stands dissolved and Directors have decided to take care of their respective technologies adopted in their forensic set up. Hence, your final report is no more required for this Directorate. Under the circumstances, your effort is appreciated and you are requested to inform all other committee members accordingly. With regards. Your sincerely,

Sd/- (DR. M.S. RAO) Director cum Chief Forensic Scientist To, Dr. D. Nagaraja Director/Vice Chancellor, NIMHANS (Deemed University). Bangalore-560 029. Copy forwarded with compliments to: (1) Director, Forensic Science Laboratory, Banguluru, Karnataka. (2) Directorate of Forensic Science, Mumbai, Maharashtra. (3) Director, Central Forensic Science Laboratory, New Delhi. (4) Director, Central Forensic Science Laboratory, Chandigarh. (5) C.F.S.L. Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), New Delhi. (6) Directorate of Forensic Science, Gandhinagar, Gujarat. Sd/- (DR. M.S. RAO) Director cum Chief Forensic Scientist ‘Promoting Good Practices and Standards E-Mail: cfs [email protected] • Please visit our Website http://www.dfs.gov.in. «UÊ. ∞◊.∞‚. ⁄UÊfl ãÿÊÿÊÁ‹∑§ ÁflôÊÊŸ ÁŸŒ‡ÊÊ‹ÿ

461 DR. M.S. RAO ªÎ„U ◊¢òÊÊ‹ÿ, ÷Ê⁄Uà ‚⁄U∑§Ê⁄U Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist é‹Ê∑§ ~, Ë Ÿ¢. } ∑§ãº˝Ëÿ ∑§Êÿʸ‹ÿ ¬Á⁄U‚⁄U ‹ÙœË ⁄UÙ«U, Ÿß¸ ÁŒÀÔ‹Ë-vvÆ ÆÆx

Directorate of Forenstic Science Ministry of Home Affairs, Govt. of India Block No. 9, 8th Floor, C.G.O. Complex Lodhi Road, New Delhi-110 003 (India) No. 18(6)/2004 Dated: 26th May 2007

To, The Director-Vice Chancellor National Institute of Mental Health & Neuro Sciences. Bangalore-560 029 Subject: Technical peer review of the technologies developed and used in forensic interrogation.

Dear Sir, Ref: Brain Mapping/BEOSP/Brain fingerprinting In the recent years, technologies have advanced in the field of forensic interrogation. The brain fingerprinting/BEOSP/brain mapping is an important technique used extensively in high profile cases for which there is a growing demand. Looking at the demand by Investigating agencies and judiciary, and the advancement, it is high time to reveiw and scrutinize the above technique used in various centers in India. As a standard practice, peer review is also a requirement when the reports based on these techniques are put up to the courts for evidence. Secondly, such technical scrutiny and peer review will enhance the credibility of the methodologies, procedures from the point of view of evidence as it is a part of Dauberts’ criteria. Thus, it has been decided to review and scrutinize the brain mapping/BEOSP/Brain fingerprinting technique used in different centers to see it uniform procedural and methodological criteria are adopted. The technique comes under the field of neurosciences, and thus it is felf that NIMHANS (pioneer institute of neurosciences) is the best institute to take up such an important and exhaustive work of technical peer review.

The following committee of prominent persons relevant to the field has been constituted: 1. Dr. D. Nagaraja, Director/Vice Chancellor NIMHANS Bangalore, Chairman. 2. Dr. Narayanan Srinivasan Senior Faculty Center for Behavioral and Cognitive Sciences Psychology Building University of Allahabad, Allahabad-211 002. 3. Dr. D. Narayanan Dutt Professor, ECE Department Indian Institute of Science Bangalore.

462 4. Dr. N. Pradhan Professor and Head, Department of Psychopharmacology NIMHANS, Bangalore. 5. Dr. Venkata Subramanian Asst. Professor, Psychiatry NIMHANS, Bangalore. The composition of the above committee has been arrived at keeping in view, the specialization of the members of the committee in the relevant fields. If need be, chairman is authorized to co-opt any other person as a member to assist the committee, so that requirement of peer review is completed in a period of three months time. The first meeting of this committee to be held at NIMHANS Bangalore on 16th June 2007. All travel expenses of the committee members at different places will be borne by this Directorate, as per the entitlement of the members. Sincerely Yours

Sd/- (DR. M.S. RAO) Director-cum-Chief Forensic Scientist 1. Copy forwarded to the following members of the committee with a request to make it convenient to attend the meeting on 16th June at NIMHANS, Bangalore. 2. Copy forwarded to the following for information and necessary action. The Director General of Police, Karnataka, Bangalore with request to depute Dr. B.M. Mohan Director FSL to attend the meeting and extend necessary cooperation to the committee. Principal Secretary, Home Department, Government of Gujarat with a request to depute Dr. J.M. Vyas Director FSL, Gandhinagar Gujarat to attend the meeting and extend necessary cooperation to the committee. Principal Secretary, Home Department, Government of Maharashtra with a request to depute Dr. Smt. R. Krishnamurthy Director FSL, Mumbai to attend the meeting and extend necessary cooperation to the committee. 1. Dr. D. Nagaraja, Director/Vice Chancellor NIMHANS, Bangalore. 2. Dr. Narayanan Srinivasan Senior Faculty Center for Behavioral and Cognitive Sciences. Psychology Building University of Allahabd, Allahabad—211 002. 3. Dr. D. Narayanan Dutt Professor, ECE Department, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore. 4. Dr. N. Pradhan, Professor and Head, Department of Psychopharmacology, NIMHANS, Bangalore. 5. Dr. Venkata Subramanian Asst. Professor, Psychiatry NIMHANS, Bangalore.

463 APPENDIX XVII (Please see para 160 of the Report) THE TIMES OF INDIA, NEW DELHI TUESDAY AUGUST 19, 2008 CASH PROBE WON’T CLEAR AIR Split 4:3, Its Findings on Trust Vote to be Inconclusive

The divided verdict on the cash-for-vote scam will set the stage for continued agitation by the BJP which, according to sources, may reject the findings of the Lok Sabha committee

New Delhi: The Lok Sabha committee probing the ‘cash-for-vote’ scam concluded its hearings on Monday with clear indication that it would give a 4:3 split finding without clearing the air on the sensational episode during the trust vote. The seven member Parliamentary Committee appeared to be split on party lines with those from BJP, BSP and CPM clearly diverging from the representatives of Congress SP, RJD and DMK on the veracity of the tapes with particular regard to whether SP general secretary Amar Singh tried to bribe three BJP MPs for abstaining during the trust vote. While the majority representing the UPA and its new ally the SP are in clined to conclude that there was not enough evidence to establish the veracity of the charge against the SP general secretary, others are expected to give a dissent note. The divided verdict will also set the stage for continued agitation by the BJP which, according to sources, may reject the findings of the committee. A split verdict seemed evident after members of the panel sharply differed on whether Sanjeev Saxena, till recently an aide of Amar Singh, be subjected to narco test. While BJP’s V. K. Malhotra, CPM’s Mohammad Saleem and BSP’s Rajesh Verma favoured the test saying that Saxena’s version on how he landed up at the residence of BJP MP Ashok Argal with Rs. 1 core in cash on the morning of the trust vote was contrived and not convincing, others did not find, anything amiss, at least on record, about his deposition. In fact, SP’s Ram Gopal Yadav retorted by saying that a similar test be administered on BJP leaders—from L.K. Advani and Arun Jaitely to Madhya Pradesh chief minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan. Saxena’s explanation of the turn of events was found to be a “stretch” by at least two members of the UPA. In the final event, however, they went along with the party line. Saxena, who said he was working for telecom company HFCL, admitted to be “casually” involved with Amar Singh till July 20 when he defected to the other camp along with Shahid Siddiqui.

464 APPENDIX XVIII (Please see para 160 of the Report) HOUSE PANEL TO GIVE CLEAN CHIT TO AMAR SINGH

20 August 2008, 0240 hrs IST, Et Bureau

New Delhi: The parliamentary panel formed to look into the complaint by BJP MPs Ashok Argal, Faggan Singh Kulaste and Mahavir Bhagora, that they were bribed to stay away from voting in the confidence motion, is likely to give a clean chit to Samajwadi Party general secretary Amar Singh. The panel headed by senior Congress MP V. Kishore Chandra Deo has completed the process of recording evidences and is expected to hold another meeting to finalise its report. When asked by newspersons on Monday, Mr. Deo had said that the committee would do its best to submit its report by August 29. The seven-member panel, according to sources, is likely to rely heavily on Mr. Sanjiv Saxena’s deposition to give a clean chit to the SP general secretary. In his testimony, Mr Saxena had admitted that he was on Mr. Amar Singh’s rolls till July 22, but had parted ways after that. He also admitted that he used to send SMS to mediapersons informing them about the SP general secretary’s press conferences, and that the last such message was sent on July 20. He told the panel that he had delivered the initial bribe amount of Rs. one crore at Mr. Argal’s residence at Mr. Sohail Hindustani’s behest. In his deposition before the committee, BJP secretary Sudheendra Kulkarni had confirmed that the meeting between the three BJP MPs and Mr. Amar Singh was set up because of the efforts of Mr. Hindustani, who was described as a party activist. Even though Mr. Saxena’s testimony was found to be having loopholes, the committee is likely to use his evidence to exonerate Mr. Amar Singh of the bribery charges. The UPA has a majority in the seven-member panel. The committee is likely to use it to push through the report. Besides Mr. Deo, the other members of the committee include Mr. Ram Gopal Yadav (SP) Mr. Devendra Prasad Yadav (RJD), Mr. C. Kuppusami (DMK), Mr V.K. Malhotra (BJP) Mr. Mohd. Salim (CPM) and Mr. Rajesh Varma (BSP). The first four members belong to UPA.

465 APPENDIX XIX (Please see Para 161 of the Report)

THE INDIAN EXPRESS DATED 6.10.08

CASH-FOR-VOTE : AMAR LIKELY TO GET AN ALL-CLEAR FROM HOUSE PANEL

Pradeep Kaushal New Delhi, October 5 The V. Kishore Chandra Deo committee may clear SP general secretary Amar Singh of the charge of bribery levelled by three BJP Lok Sabha MPs in what has come to be known as the cash- for-vote scam, sources disclosed here this evening, a day before the committee is due to meet to consider a draft report prepared by the chairman. The House panel, comprising seven people, has at least three members from the Opposition— BJP’s V.K. Malhotra, Mohammad Salim of the CPM and Rajesh Verma of the BSP-who may not share the tentative conclusion drawn by Deo and may, therefore, either seek some amendment or record their dissent. The final report is expected to get ready as the Parliament session gets underway from October 17. The Committee may, however, make some adverse remarks against SP MP Rewati Raman Singh who allegedly went to the three MPs to win them over ahead of the July 22 confidence vote in the Lok Sabha. The sources said that the House panel may suggest an inquiry by an investigating agency into the role of three others—Sudheendra Kulkarni, Sanjeev Saxena and Sohail alias Raja Hindustani. The draft, according to the sources, cites the absence of any evidence against Amar Singh, a Rajya Sabha member, in the episode. The three BJP MPs, Ashok Argal, Faggan Singh Kulaste, Mahavir Bhagora, had caused a stir when they un-bundled Rs. crore in cash in the Lok Sabha, alleging it was bribe money to abstain from voting.

466