Legislative Assembly of

The 28th Legislature First Session

Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future

Ministry of Executive Council Consideration of Main Estimates

Monday, April 15, 2013 7 p.m.

Transcript No. 28-1-12

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 28th Legislature First Session

Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future Amery, Moe, -East (PC), Chair Fox, Rodney M., Lacombe-Ponoka (W), Deputy Chair Bhardwaj, Naresh, -Ellerslie (PC) Cao, Wayne, Calgary-Fort, (PC) Donovan, Ian, (W) Dorward, David C., Edmonton-Gold Bar (PC) Eggen, David, Edmonton-Calder (ND) Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (AL) Leskiw, Genia, Bonnyville-Cold Lake (PC)* Luan, Jason, Calgary-Hawkwood (PC) McDonald, Everett, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC) Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood** Olesen, Cathy, Sherwood Park (PC) Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (PC) Quadri, Sohail, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont (PC) Rowe, Bruce, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (W) Sarich, Janice, Edmonton-Decore (PC) Smith, Danielle, Highwood (W)*** Strankman, Rick, Drumheller-Stettler (W) Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC)

* substitution for George Rogers ** substitution for *** substitution for Bruce Rowe

Also in Attendance Anderson, Rob, Airdrie (W) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (W) Pedersen, Blake, Medicine Hat (W) Towle, Kerry, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (W)

Support Staff W.J. David McNeil Clerk Robert H. Reynolds, QC Law Clerk/Director of Interparliamentary Relations Shannon Dean Senior Parliamentary Counsel/ Director of House Services Philip Massolin Manager of Research Services Stephanie LeBlanc Legal Research Officer Sarah Leonard Legal Research Officer Nancy Zhang Legislative Research Officer Nancy Robert Research Officer Corinne Dacyshyn Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Karen Sawchuk Committee Clerk Christopher Tyrell Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Corporate Communications and Broadcast Services Jeanette Dotimas Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Liz Sim Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard

Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future

Participants

Ministry of Executive Council Hon. Alison M. Redford, QC, Premier, President of Executive Council Peter Watson, Deputy Minister

April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-151

7 p.m. Monday, April 15, 2013 Council, I would like to review briefly the standing orders govern- Title: Monday, April 15, 2013 ef ing the speaking rotation. [Mr. Amery in the chair] As provided for in Standing Order 59.01(6), the rotation is as follows. The minister or the member of the Executive Council Ministry of Executive Council acting on the minister’s behalf may make opening comments not Consideration of Main Estimates to exceed seven minutes for a two-hour long meeting. For the 40 minutes that follow, members of the Official Opposition and the The Chair: Good evening, everyone. It is 7 p.m., and we must minister or the member of the Executive Council acting on the begin. I would like to call this meeting to order. I’d also like to minister’s behalf may speak. For the next 14 minutes the members welcome everyone in attendance here tonight. of the third party, if any, and the minister or the member of the The committee has under consideration the estimates of Execu- Executive Council acting on the minister’s behalf may speak. For tive Council for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2014. the next 14 minutes the member of the fourth party, if any, and the Just a friendly reminder that the microphones are operated by minister or the member of the Executive Council acting on the Hansard. I would ask members not to operate their own consoles minister’s behalf may speak. For the next 14 minutes private as it causes technical issues. Also, please do not leave your Black- members of the government caucus and the minister or the Berrys, iPhones on the table. member of the Executive Council acting on the minister’s behalf Now I would ask that we go around the table for introductions. I may speak. Any member may speak thereafter. would also ask that if you’re substituting for a committee member, Members may speak more than once; however, speaking times please indicate so. I would like to ask the hon. Premier to intro- are limited to 10 minutes at any one time. A minister and a duce her staff. member may combine their time for a total of 14 minutes. If the I will start. , MLA, Calgary-East, and the chair of time is not combined, I would ask members to limit their com- this committee. ments to seven minutes. Also, members are asked to advise the chair at the beginning of their speech if they plan to combine their Mr. Fox: Rod Fox, MLA, Lacombe-Ponoka, vice-chair of this time with the minister’s time, and the minister must consent to committee. that. Mr. Quadri: Sohail Quadri, Edmonton-Mill Woods. Once the specified rotation between caucuses is complete and we move to the portion of the meeting where any member may Mr. Bhardwaj: , Edmonton-Ellerslie. speak, the speaking times are reduced to five minutes at any one time. Once again, a minister and a member may combine their Ms Olesen: Cathy Olesen, MLA, Sherwood Park. speaking time for a maximum total of 10 minutes, and members are asked to advise the chair at the beginning of their speech if Mr. Luan: Jason Luan, Calgary-Hawkwood. they wish to combine their time with the minister’s time. The Mr. Dorward: David Dorward, MLA, Edmonton-Gold Bar. minister must consent to that. Two hours have been scheduled to consider the estimates of Mr. Cao: Wayne Cao, Calgary-Fort. Executive Council. Committee members, ministers, and other members who are not Mrs. Forsyth: , Calgary-Fish Creek. committee members may participate. Members’ staff and ministry officials may be present, and at the direction of the minister Mr. Anderson: Rob Anderson, Airdrie. officials from the ministry may address the committee. Ms Redford: , . Sitting with me Members, as noted in the Speaker’s memorandum of March 22, today are Darren Cunningham, director of operations in the Premier’s I would like to remind all members that during main estimates office, and Peter Watson, Deputy Minister of Executive Council. consideration members have seating priority at all times. Should members arrive at a meeting and there are no seats available at the Ms Smith: , Highwood. table, any staff seated at the table must relinquish their seat to the member. Mr. Pedersen: Blake Pedersen, Medicine Hat. If debate is exhausted prior to two hours, the ministry’s estimates are deemed to have been considered for the time allotted Mrs. Towle: Kerry Towle, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake. in the schedule, and we will adjourn; otherwise, we will adjourn at Mr. Strankman: Rick Strankman, Drumheller-Stettler. 9 p.m. sharp. Points of order will be dealt with as they arise, and the clock Mr. Donovan: , Little Bow. will continue to run. Any written material provided in response to questions raised Ms Pastoor: , Lethbridge-East. during the main estimates should be tabled in the Assembly for the benefit of all members. Mrs. Sarich: Good evening. Janice Sarich, MLA for Edmonton- Vote on the estimates is deferred until consideration of all Decore. ministry estimates has concluded and will occur in Committee of Supply on April 22, 2013. Mr. Xiao: David Xiao, Edmonton-McClung. In case we have any amendments, I would like to read the rules Mrs. Sawchuk: Karen Sawchuk, committee clerk. and regulations into the record. Any amendment to the estimates cannot seek to increase the amount of the estimates being The Chair: Well, thank you all very much. Hon. members, as you considered, change the destination of a grant, or change the all know, the Assembly approved amendments to the standing destination or purpose of a subsidy. An amendment may be pro- orders that impact consideration of the main estimates. Before we posed to reduce an estimate, but the amendment cannot propose to proceed with consideration of the main estimates for Executive reduce the estimate by its full amount. EF-152 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013

Vote on amendments is deferred until Committee of Supply on 7:10 April 22, 2013. Our 2013-16 business plan lays out several priority initiatives Written amendments must be reviewed by Parliamentary Coun- for Executive Council, including ensuring integrated decision- sel prior to the meeting at which they are to be moved. Twenty- making across public service to provide high-quality outcomes for five copies of amendments must be provided at the meeting for Albertans; leading the transformation and the renewal of the committee members and staff. public service so that all public servants are empowered to make a At this time I would like to ask the Premier to begin her difference in the lives of Albertans; supporting ministers and comments. departments through crossdepartment engagement; providing strategic direction and increasing policy coherence; working Ms Redford: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and hon. collaboratively with ministries to improve the quality of Alberta’s members. I’m pleased to appear before this committee to discuss regulatory systems and overseeing the ongoing review of the 2013-14 Executive Council estimates and the 2013-16 regulations so that policy outcomes can be achieved effectively business plan. As I already have, I’d like to begin by introducing and efficiently; ensuring co-ordinated and effective two-way com- the two staff who are sitting at the table with me today. They are munication and engagement with Albertans by continuing to Peter Watson, Deputy Minister of Executive Council, and Darren implement a strategic communications plan and topic-specific Cunningham, director of operations in the Premier’s office. communication strategies; and co-ordinating with ministries and Since becoming Premier, I have been consistently impressed by organizations to promote Alberta’s energy, immigration, employ- the talent and the dedication that every staff member of Executive ment, investment, and tourism potential to the world. Council brings to their work, and that ethic extends throughout the Mr. Chairman, these initiatives are part of our commitment to public service. It is because of our staff that I am confident that leading responsible change. Our spending reductions are targeted the plans that we laid out in Budget 2013 will be achieved and that to ensure that government continues to receive the best policy ad- Albertans will continue to receive the government supports and vice to make informed decisions and that Albertans, staff, and services that they rely on. clients continue to benefit from co-ordinated and effective Budget 2013 is our plan for leading responsible change that communications. builds the vital infrastructure such as schools, roads, waterways, Our public service renewal will be part of the government-wide and hospitals that our province needs, that has us living within our results-based budgeting process and will be evaluated against the means by holding the line on spending, and that creates new principles of how the government of Alberta makes a difference in opportunities to grow our economy. We will spend wisely on the lives of Albertans, working with purpose, accomplishing our programs, services, and infrastructure while increasing our savings objectives through innovation and collaboration, and developing and keeping our taxes the lowest in Canada. We are looking for leaders throughout the public service who can continue delivering long-term global economic success in diversified markets with the responsible change our government stands for. companies driven by our brightest minds and ready to reach for Renewal is our way of ensuring that the public service is strong, opportunity. vibrant, and adaptable and remains an inspiring and purposeful Budget 2013 is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to set place to work so that we can meet Albertans’ needs now and in the Alberta on a more fiscally responsible path for the long term. future. Called reaching our full potential, the renewal effort brings Keeping our commitments to Albertans and bringing innovation to together staff from every ministry to celebrate successes, build on the public service is part of the work that Executive Council does best practices, and encourage cultural change through initiative every day. This department provides leadership and strategy and and empowerment. This approach requires us to focus on the sets the course for how the public service works together for bottom line, which is why we are leading by example in Albertans. It’s under the same scrutiny as all departments during implementing a three-year management salary freeze that will the budgeting process to ensure that programs and services are save Albertans $54 million. We are also committed to reducing getting the best results for the investment. the size of management by 10 per cent over the same three years. I’d like to begin with an overview of the Budget 2013 allocation Our government through the work of Executive Council and for Executive Council. Overall, the Executive Council allocation other departments is continuing to build the relationships neces- is $50.7 million, which is a decrease of $3.2 million from the sary to open new markets for Alberta’s resources and to secure our 2012-13 forecast, or 6 per cent. Every area of Executive Council is economic future. We know that we cannot rely on our traditional devoted to smarter, more effective spending in order to meet our trading relationships, so we are proactively selling Alberta’s story 2013-14 budget targets. By doing this, the office of the Premier to the world, a story that we all know and are proud of but that so and Executive Council was able to achieve a spending reduction many others still need to hear, particularly in light of political of 4.5 per cent. The Public Affairs Bureau reduced its spending by change around the world. more than $2 million, or 11 per cent, and corporate human We have taken a thoughtful approach to smarter spending, with resources reduced its budget by $580,000. zero overall spending growth, a reduced budget, and a move to I will turn now to a review of the Executive Council’s program results-based budgeting. areas and priorities as outlined in the business plan. Executive The Chair: You have one minute left. Council includes my offices in the Legislature and in McDougall Centre in Calgary, the deputy minister’s office, the cabinet co- Ms Redford: These are a few highlights of the many initiatives that ordination office, the policy co-ordination office, the Regulatory are taking place through Executive Council. I will now stop here, Review Secretariat, the Agency Governance Secretariat, the Mr. Chairman, to answer questions from your committee members. protocol office as well as administrative support for the office of the Lieutenant Governor and the Alberta Order of Excellence The Chair: Thank you very much, Madam Premier. Council, the Public Affairs Bureau, and corporate human Speaking on behalf of the Official Opposition, Ms Smith. You resources. have 40 minutes. Would you like to combine your time with the Premier? April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-153

Ms Smith: Certainly. Well, we’ll go for 20 minutes with combined In fact, you may be interested to know that I did get an time and see how that goes. interview request from someone from CTV asking me to comment on one of your trips, thinking I would be critical. Then when I Ms Redford: I’d actually prefer you ask your questions, and then wasn’t, the producer called back and said: are you sure you I’ll answer them. answered the question the right way? I think they ended up calling the NDP when they couldn’t get the response out of me that they The Chair: I would like to get the Premier’s consent. wanted. I do thank you for your efforts on behalf of Albertans in Ms Redford: No. I won’t consent. representing us abroad. I do want to talk about, again, though, your strategic initiatives. The Chair: Okay. So you go for seven minutes, and the Premier Last year, when the Official Opposition leader, Dr. Sherman, was will answer for seven. asking you about the role of Executive Council, you said that you’d make up a brochure on what Executive Council does. I wish Ms Smith: Well, could we, then, shorten it to go five and five so you’d done that because it has been a little bit confusing over the that we can actually get a little bit of discussion going? number of years that we’ve seen different departments come in and out of your ministry, so I do want to get to some of that. Mr. Mason: Point of order, Mr. Chairman. I want to start by talking about the priority initiatives of the The Chair: Yes? government. I’ll refer to the strategic plan, and we can go through those. Hopefully, you’ll be able to comment one by one on some Mr. Mason: According to the rules as I understand them or at of the initiatives that you have in there. least the practice of the committee, the decision on whether you I want start off talking about the market access strategy that you combine the time or not is up to the questioner, not to the person have. We’ve heard an awful lot about you talking about an energy answering. Is that not correct? strategy. Although I have to say that I’m still trying to piece together what the different elements of that might be, I think it The Chair: No, that’s not correct. It has been discussed with involves building pipelines. I think that’s important, whether it’s Parliamentary Counsel, and it’s up to both parties. It’s up to the the , whether it’s the east coast pipeline, which, minister to consent to that. of course, we’ve been supportive of as well, or whether it’s a west Ms Smith, you can go for seven minutes. coast option. We personally think that we need to have all three of those. I have also noted that you’ve made reference to coal Ms Smith: Would it make more sense, since I’ve got 40 minutes, gasification as another potential option. But aside from those to go five-five, five-five, five-five, five-five? I think it might just specifics, I’m a little bit in the dark about what the other elements be a little bit easier on the timekeepers to do it that way. of your Canadian energy strategy might be, so I hope you might The Chair: No. It has to be seven minutes proportionately. be able to reference today what some of those would be. I also would like you to acknowledge or explain where the Ms Smith: If I get 40 minutes in total, how does that work out? 40/40 plan came from. There did seem to be a little bit of confusion, with different ministers giving different answers to that The Chair: The Premier spoke for seven minutes, and you’ll go question and, of course, your comments in Maclean’s magazine for seven minutes. saying that there isn’t a proposal on the table. I will tell you that one of the energy industry players that I Ms Smith: Don’t we get a total of 40 minutes? So I get three spoke with wonders if this is the quid pro quo that is being offered blocks of seven? Is that what you’re telling me? in this Canadian energy strategy. He did raise the question of why it is that we’re bidding against ourselves if you take a strategy The Chair: That’s right. that’s as aggressive as all that, which is not what our federal Ms Smith: Okay. I think I’m getting this now. No problem. counterparts or other provincial counterparts are suggesting. I I had actually rather looked forward to a conversation because I think we just need some clarity on what it is your government is know you speak a lot about conversations, Premier. I had hoped proposing and if that is indeed part of your Canadian energy that this would be the first opportunity for us to have one. strategy. I do want to start off by mentioning first of all that I’m subbing The second area I wanted to have you address is the issue of the in for Bruce Rowe. To give you an idea, the structure I hope we resource management act. Of course, in your strategic plan you can follow today, Premier, is to talk about the strategic objectives mention a couple of things that you’re hoping to accomplish in the of your government, and then I want to get a little bit more next few years. One is getting five out of seven regions under a granular as we move along. regional plan. It seems to me the progress there is fairly slow. I want to start off, though, by making reference to your remarks We’re still waiting for a final plan to come out on the South Sas- in Hansard on Thursday. I think it was in response to some ques- katchewan at the end of this year. I would appreciate knowing tions that had been asked by Mr. Goudreau. Your first response how the progress is going on those other three parts of your was to say, “Contrary to the opposition, we actually think [the regional plans. issue of the Keystone pipeline] is an important issue.” I just The other, of course, is the single regulator. I have to tell you, wanted the opportunity to be able to address that. We, of course, Premier, that in the last couple of weeks I’ve heard from two in the Official Opposition also think that the Keystone pipeline is energy industry executives who described the process as a gong an important issue. Don’t mistake the fact that we haven’t asked show. I think that there are obviously some deep concerns about you tough questions in the Legislature for a lack of interest or how that process is unrolling. I think we’ve seen that in the last even a lack of agreement. We actually are very supportive of the couple of days as well with the ERCB having its technical issues efforts that you’ve taken, especially recently, to travel to and infighting. I think that to give some certainty and comfort to Washington, to build those relationships, to represent Alberta. the industry, they’d like to have some understanding about where EF-154 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013 you see that going and when we’re going to start to see things groups across the country who were taking a look at what was align and some progress being made. happening in the United States and saw that the United States was The third area, of course, is the rebalanced fiscal framework, looking at what Canada was doing with respect to energy and your third goal. I find it interesting that your counterpart in British environmental policy. They wanted to see a connection. It was Columbia, , is now campaigning on paying off the rather ironic since in the United States, of course, jurisdiction is debt just at a time when we’re going to see massive new debt completely reversed. Energy is a matter of federal jurisdiction in being racked up. the United States. In the United States there was this expectation 7:20 that Canada would have something similar that would allow for a parallel conversation with respect to energy. I’d love to know what happened. I’ve quoted back to you your What we took the opportunity to do was to build on some of the own words about how debt impacts countries around the world work that had already been going on in Canada across provinces and how it’s been the death of countless dreams. I’d like to know with industry, with government departments around how to make what happened in your attitude about debt since it seems to have sure that we were integrating our thinking on energy growth and converted quite dramatically. It does seem to me as well that there environmental sustainability. One of our great successes in that is some lack of clarity about when the amount of debt will stop. It has actually been the work that’s taken place over the past eight looks like you’ve given yourself the latitude for your government months around the pipeline to the east coast. to increase debt by $35 billion to $40 billion with the very gen- When we saw a change of government in Quebec and saw erous debt limitation that you’ve put in. I’d like to have some Premier Marois come to our first Council of the Federation meet- understanding of when it actually stops and when Albertans will ings, one of the first things that she and I talked about was the fact once again see Alberta be debt free, if ever. that she understood that we were going to be greater in building an You’ve also mentioned quite frequently – and we’ve heard it quite a energy economy for Canada if we were actually working in bit as we’ve gone through estimates – the results-based budgeting. partnership and not separating energy policy across provincial The Chair: Ms Smith, you have one minute left. jurisdictions. We’ve seen very good success in partnership with the Premier of Quebec and the Premier of New Brunswick with Ms Smith: Thank you. respect to the work that’s happening on an eastern pipeline. That’s I know that that is occurring in your department as well, so I’d a very good example of why a Canadian energy strategy can work. love to get some progress to know how that’s going. You know, quite frankly, it used to be that Alberta was regarded On the issue of education and entrepreneurship it does seem like as an island unto itself. I know you’re quite familiar with that you had a fairly aggressive plan to change the way the universities concept because that was part of what we discussed in the last work together, but it does seem like that is in full retreat as a result provincial election. We believe as Progressive Conservatives and of some of the activism against Campus Alberta. as the government of Alberta that it’s important to be strong On the issue of primary care networks for family care clinics I partners in Canada. It’s important for us to take our leadership role congratulate you on your deal with the doctors today. But I think across the country because we truly are the economic engine of that if you look at your document here under the primary care Canada at the moment, and there’s no doubt that one of the clinics, I can see why the docs were worried. In every reference to reasons that we are is because of our role in energy. family care clinics it doesn’t mention physicians. I think that that’s For us it’s been a tremendous success to be able to work with been corrected. Premiers across the country. Premier Wall has raised the opportu- nity for us to work together with respect to investment in carbon The Chair: Ms Smith, I really want you to focus on the budget capture programs along our borders. That would be helpful and estimates of the Executive Council. I haven’t heard you say one would really have to be an approach that’s interprovincial. That’s thing about that so far. really what a Canadian energy strategy is about. This Friday in Ontario Premier Selinger, Premier Dunderdale, Ms Smith: My understanding is that the priority initiatives are the and I will be co-chairing a meeting of provincial energy ministers job of Executive Council. That’s what the Premier said last year. to continue to advance some of the issues that we think will be important in terms of building an energy strategy. It’s not only The Chair: Well, please focus on the estimates. about energy projects and pipelines. It’s also about ensuring that Ms Smith: That’s what I’m doing. I’m focusing on the six strate- we are putting in place a system that allows for increased energy gic initiatives. literacy, programs and investments that are going to allow for more energy efficiencies so that as people are involved in public The Chair: Thank you. policy debates with respect to energy and infrastructure, they Premier. understand what their choices are. I was having a conversation with someone a couple of weeks Ms Redford: Thank you very much. I wanted to say that the work ago, and my daughter was part of the conversation. People were that we’re doing with respect to Keystone is pretty fundamental. talking about electric cars. We don’t talk about this at home, but at Being in Washington last week and hearing what was going on 11 years old she said: “You know, it’s interesting. People have to around the conversations with respect to continuing to ensure that remember that even if you’re going to generate electricity, it has we are undertaking responsible economic development in an an environmental impact.” I think there are a lot of people across environmentally sustainable way is fundamental to what we are Canada and the United States that need to understand more about going to be able to accomplish as a North American energy what their energy choices are, and we think that that’s going to economy. A North American energy economy is part of what a lead to more effective planning with respect to environmental sus- Canadian energy strategy is about. tainability not only in terms of extraction and development but A Canadian energy strategy is something that was first devel- also in terms of what an energy economy looks like and how oped almost two and a half years ago, not so much by political people use energy. leadership as it was by industry and community leaders and policy April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-155

With respect to the question of 40/40 we’re very cognizant of that you’ve got check boxes by – 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 – where you talk the fact that almost a year ago the federal government was very about refining the governance model for the Alberta public active with respect to coal regulations. We know, of course, that service, ensuring integrated decision-making, and leading the there’s tremendous work going on, that we’re part of, with the transformation of the organization and renewal. If you wouldn’t federal government around oil and gas regulations. We know that mind just sort of explaining in plain English what all that actually those regulations are beginning to consider what economic devel- means, I think that Albertans would be interested in knowing what opment and environmental sustainability look like. In the context that will look like at the end, what success looks like. of 2013 there are a lot of those discussions going on amongst 7:30 industry, the federal government, and provincial governments as to what renewed strategies look like to ensure that we have I will acknowledge that I think you’ve chosen the right environmental sustainability. objective because, when you look at the performance measure, What’s been going on in terms of public policy development in Alberta public-service employee agreement that they have con- the last two or three months has been really vigorous dialogue fidence in the senior leadership of their ministry or department, involving our Minister of Energy, our Minister of Environment the last time you actually surveyed on that you got a 54 per cent and Sustainable Resource Development, the federal government, response rate, which is just barely above a pass. I wonder if you Peter Kent, and industry to say: look, if we know that there’s can make some comment on why it is that staff say that they don’t beginning to be discussion with respect to this, let’s make sure have confidence in the senior leadership of the ministry or the that we’re informed and that we understand what the options are. department because 46 per cent, by my calculation, would say that While in the last couple of weeks there’s been suggestion that they don’t have confidence. Is that an issue of the ministry? Is it there’s somehow a plan with respect to 40/40, that’s not at all the an issue of the senior officials in the department? What are some case. What it has been – and industry is very much part of this of the strategies that you’re going to be using to bring those discussion, CAPP and SEPAC and PSAC – is saying that we want numbers up? to make sure that there’s real, serious discussion going on with I would notice that you have a fairly modest expectation about respect to what all of the options are on the table, and all of those what kind of success you’re going to have, only a 2 percentage options aren’t about 40/40 formulas. point move over the course of the next year, hoping for more than It’s not a magic bullet. It’s still going to be part of what we talk that beyond that. But even still, 66 per cent: I think that was a C about with respect to energy literacy, energy efficiency because at minus when I was in school. So three years in to only have that the end of day we can’t do anything in Alberta that’s going to level of public service employee happiness with senior manage- impact the competitiveness of any of our industry players, whether ment doesn’t strike me as a very aggressive target. If you could they’re multinationals or whether they’re small start-ups. We comment on what it is you’re hoping to accomplish with that and know that small companies in Alberta that are going to capital when we will actually start seeing some positive improvement in markets on a project-by-project basis need to be competitive, and morale. they need to be more competitive than multinationals do because The other question related to that, of course, is the issue of the timing is so, so impactful for them. So we’re very aware of severance. I’ll get to that in just a minute, but I do want to ask that, but what we want to make sure happens is that we don’t see about some of the structural changes that have been made in anyone come in and impose standards. The only way that we can Executive Council from time to time and maybe get you to do that is to make sure that there’s real dialogue going on. comment on why some of those structural changes have been Very clearly, as I’ve said over and over again, this is not a point made over the years and whether or not we’re likely to see some in time where there’s a policy proposal on the table. This is what a of the changes back. It is a little bit difficult to compare apples to conversation looks like, so that’s very much what we’ve been apples from one year to the next when you see different chunks of having. different departments moving in and out of your area. With respect to the single regulator we’re very pleased with the The issue, for instance, of internal audit. That used to be in the progress that we’re seeing on that. There’s no doubt that industry, Premier’s office. It’s now moved over to Treasury Board. I first of all . . . wonder if you can comment on why that was. I do also understand that your deputy minister plays a role in directing the internal The Chair: Thank you, Premier. audit process. The concern I have with this Internal Audit role is that it does appear like the government is its own watchdog, and I Ms Redford: I’m done? Okay. wonder if that would change under your premiership since you want to raise the bar on openness and transparency. The Chair: Ms Smith. The only report we have ever seen that came out of the Ms Smith: Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I could just reiterate the corporate internal audit was the one on former MLA Bob Maskell, feedback that I’ve been getting, 40/40 is way too aggressive and which is a very fascinating read for an opposition member. But it will have impact on our oil sands companies. That’s what I am is fascinating as well that this $4 million department doesn’t have hearing over and over again. any public reporting. I would be interested in knowing as well – I like what you’re talking about with respect to greening the my understanding is that the corporate internal audit gives the grid as an offset. I think we have to be realistic about how much marching orders to the Auditor General about what their annual actual reduction we’re going to be able to see in our oil sands and three-year audit schedules should be, which again creates sector. But if we can get offsets from greening the grid, I think problems. As you can see, if you don’t have those reports public that we may be onto something. and then you’re giving direction to the Auditor of what they I do have more granular questions that I want to ask you about should or, maybe more to the point, should not be looking at, that your department. Let me just run through a number of those, and does create problems of transparency. we’ll see what kind of progress we can make. The question of the approved plan for the audit: is it public? First of all, I wanted to talk about the priorities for your depart- The terms of reference say that this particular committee assigns ment that you’ve got in your business plan, specifically the ones matters to Internal Audit. I don’t know if you have a definition of EF-156 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013 what “matters” are and how many matters your deputy minister decisions. We want to make sure that they have the opportunity to has directed to this Internal Audit Committee. I’d also be be strong and to be able to be bold and to be creative with respect interested to know how many reports get generated on an annual to their leadership, and that means change. basis and how many issues get resolved through this process. We’re very proud of the fact that we’re seeing public servants That’s one that has moved in and out of Executive Council. Just now take on those initiatives. We’re seeing people feel very com- curious about how that’s going. fortable with respect to what change looks like. But we also know The second area I noticed is one that moved in. Corporate that one of the reasons we wanted to bring that change forward human services has moved into your area, and I am interested in was because there did need to be a cultural change within the knowing why that would be. I suspect it’s related to the strategic public service. When you see those figures, part of what you’re objectives that I just mentioned, but if you could explain why that seeing there is an indication as to how people, we believe, at the is more efficiently managed under your purview than the purview time were feeling with respect to public service leadership and of the Minister of Finance, I’d appreciate that as well. change within programs in the department. We’re very proud of Plus, I’d also like to know where the allowance is for sever- the fact that we’ve seen very good progress on that, and we’re ances in corporate human services. Presumably, if you’re going to looking forward to more of that. be trying to change leadership and improve the attitude of staff Internal audit is only one part of the work that we do in govern- towards leadership, that would imply that there are going to be ment. Of course, it’s important. We’re not unique in terms of some senior people in your departments that are going to be corporate structures that have internal audit processes that ensure moved out. In addition, if you are going to make good on the that we’re being most effective and most efficient with respect to promises to reduce management by 10 per cent, I just want to the programs that we run. It is absolutely not the case, and I take understand what kind of allowances you’re making for severances exception to you characterizing the fact, that this is a secretive in those cases. process and is an exclusive audit process in government. We have In addition, making it a little bit more focused on your Pre- an Auditor General. We have an Auditor General who’s an mier’s office, I notice that there isn’t an allowance for severance independent office of the Legislature, who can audit absolutely in your Premier’s office as well. anything that they would like to audit in the government of Alberta. They can take a look at independent offices. They can The Chair: Ms Smith, one minute. take a look at legislative offices. They can take a look at Crown corporations. They can take a look at government programs. Ms Smith: Thank you. As we know, because we very often are questioned about this, Every office has turnover. We know that you’ve had a little bit the Auditor General and the people in that office are very specific of turnover recently. It would seem like this is the cost of doing with respect to the work that we do. Part of the work that they do business. This is the kind of thing that should be budgeted because is in partnership, out of courtesy, with our Deputy Minister of if it’s not budgeted, it has to come from somewhere. If you can Executive Council and the Internal Audit Committee. But there’s comment on where it does come from, that would be great. Maybe no doubt that in terms of the ability to audit government programs you don’t have any terminations planned this year, in which case we have complete public scrutiny and accountability and that that I’m sure your staff will be happy to know that. But it is a bit work is tremendously important in terms of creating transparency. curious that you don’t have a line item for that. Not to mention the fact that we’ve gone further: introducing more Then, of course, the Public Affairs Bureau. Last year they asked independent officers of the Legislature, who are able to scrutinize for $15 million; they spent $19 million. This year they’re asking even more specifically the work of government; making the Child for $17 million, so that looks like they’re asking for $2 million and Youth Advocate an independent officer; the fact that we’ve more than they did last year. Why is it they’re asking for $2 brought in whistle-blower legislation that allows public servants to million more? And where has the initiative of promoting Alberta be more publicly available and have more confidence with respect gone? It looks like it’s been assumed by the Public Affairs to issues that they may bring forward. Bureau, but there is no longer a line item. The question is: is this a These comments with respect to severance either in departments dead initiative? or in my particular office, that’s part of the staffing budget. I The Chair: Thank you. mean, if there are severance packages that need to be provided to Premier. people because of contractual obligations, that’s part. It’s not a separate line item. It shouldn’t be a separate line item, and it’s not. Ms Redford: Thank you very much. We think the strategic With respect to the Public Affairs Bureau the reason that you objectives are fundamental to reforming the Alberta public see that change is not because there’s been any change in priorities service. Alberta public servants are managed through Executive with respect to the Public Affairs Bureau, but what you saw was Council, particularly senior executives. They are responsible for an amalgamation of the two services. We actually took the two administering all departments. In fact, you would be wrong to budgets and combined them and then reduced operations in that make the assumption that the performance measurement indicator budget by $2 million. Instead of seeing a $2 million increase, what is dealing with, as you suggested, political leadership. What we you’re actually seeing is a $2 million reduction with respect to that see in that is a reflection of surveys across the entire public service budget. with respect to deputy ministers, assistant deputy ministers, and 7:40 directors. One of the things I’m really pleased about and was very proud Since I didn’t have time, I thought I’d go back to a couple of the of was the fact that when I became leader and once we went other issues that you raised. First of all, we’re very proud of the through an election, we talked about exactly what I talked about in work that’s been done with respect to a single regulator. We have my opening comments, which was public service renewal. We a new chair of the board in place. That board is in the process of want to make sure that we have the best and the brightest working hiring a chief administrative officer and executive director. Once in government. We want to make sure that they’re working in a that position is in place, we’ll be able to see the transition from the climate where they have the ability to be empowered to make ERCB to the single regulator. One of the reasons we introduced April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-157 the single regulator is because we do believe that it will be much Going more granular on some of your other budget, I think that more effective and much more efficient for industry. there are other ways in which your Executive Council is spending The result that we came to with respect to a single regulator was money that does not appear in the amounts that are listed in after over two years’ work with industry that was led by our estimates. I don’t have the annual report for 2013, of course, since Minister of Environment and Sustainable Resource Development, it is not going to be released until June, but I notice that there has Diana McQueen, tremendous consultation with CAPP and with been a bit of a trend in a variety of related party transactions that it SEPAC to ensure that this makes sense. No one in industry has to looks like are assumed by other ministries but are credited to the be worried that this isn’t going to be a seamless transition, but to Executive Council. I wonder if you could explain a little bit of assume that we’re ready to make that transition just now – we still those and why we’re seeing such an increase in some of them. have some work to do, so at this point in time the ERCB will For instance, the four from 2012. First of all, I’d like to know if continue. One of the reasons that we want to see us move to a you’ve got updated estimates on what they’re likely to be for 2013 single regulator is because of efficiency for industry but also for expenses incurred by others for your ministry in accom- because we have seen some challenges that we want to address. modation, business services, legal services, and air transportation. So we’re very pleased with that. In 2012 that amount was $1.6 million. Now, that amount has been With respect to your comments on advanced education we are as low as about $339,000, so that seems like a pretty dramatic fully committed to ensuring that taxpayers’ dollars are used in our change from previous years. postsecondary institutions to train Albertans in the skills that they On the issue of business services it’s $798,000 for 2012. It, need to have to build the economy and that the research that’s again, has been as low as $493,000. On the issue of legal services: being done is being done in partnership between universities, $13,000. That seems to be near a historic low. It has been much industry, and sector leaders so that we’re actually diversifying the higher in past years. Then air transportation is $1.108 million, and economy. It would be absolutely wrong to characterize anything again it has been as low as, say, $542,000 in recent years. If you that’s happening in advanced education right now as anything but could comment on the doubling of that since you became Premier. a full addressing of how we achieve those objectives. It is certain- I would also be interested in knowing on air services whether that ly not the case that there have been any shifts with respect to is just for commercial flights or whether that also involves the policy since the budget was tabled, and there will not be. government jet. If you could clarify where those expenses come We’re very pleased with the agreement that we were able to in. make today with respect to doctors. We actually had the president I’m also interested to know whether or not there are other of the AMA, Michael Giuffre, talk about the fact that this is going expenses that are not accounted for in the areas that I’ve listed to allow us to advance the work that we need to do with respect to here. For instance, do you second staff from any ministry into family care clinics. It’s very important that doctors are part of your department so that they’re actually taking direction from you those. But even doctors realize that they work in multidisciplinary but are being paid from other ministries, and if so, where? I’m teams, and this is going to allow those teams to work more also curious to know how much of your budget gets taken up by effectively. International and Intergovernmental Relations? Of course, with Thank you. the amount of travel that you do, obviously there are additional costs that would be taken up by that department. If you could The Chair: Thank you, Premier. clarify how you make the decisions on splitting those. Ms Smith. On the issue of executive vehicles I’m not sure where the line item for executive vehicles is, but I do note that vehicles are Ms Smith: Thank you. Well, with respect to Campus Alberta I provided for the deputy secretary to cabinet; the chief of staff; the guess the media has it wrong when they are suggesting that the executive policy director; the deputy minister; the executive universities are now getting to rewrite the mandate letters that director, south caucus office; the director of communications; the your minister sent to them. deputy chiefs of staff, policy co-ordination; and the managing I would have to say that I beg to differ on the openness of the director, Public Affairs Bureau. If you could give me an idea of Internal Audit Committee. We went to the parliamentary library, what the yearly cost is for each of these vehicles and how often and this is the only study that has ever been publicly released on they’re traded in so that I have some understanding of the cost, of results from the Internal Audit Committee. So I think there is where that is budgeted. room for greater accountability and transparency there. This is a serious question, but I don’t know if you can answer it Also, on the issue of the PAB I did want to raise with you the here. I am also interested in knowing about the change in your concern that’s been raised by political scientists about the politi- security detail. Again, if there are issues that you can’t deal with cization of the Public Affairs Bureau. I think we see it again here here because of security reasons, that’s quite fine. I’d be happy to today in a release that was about the new legislation supporting a get a private briefing afterwards. I would note that Mr. Klein had successful future for Métis settlements, so a brand new press three security staff, Mr. Stelmach had five, and my understanding release. “Our government was elected to keep building Alberta, to is that you have 15. So if you can provide some context about why live within its means and to fight to open new markets for Alber- it is that your security detail has increased more than your pre- ta’s resources. We will continue to deliver the responsible change decessors’. In addition, where does that cost come from? Is that in Albertans voted for.” Solicitor General, or is that in Executive Council estimates? Also, It’s been referenced by several academics as highly unusual for when you travel abroad, how many people do travel with you, the government to politicize its press releases in this way and be again, for security reasons? Where are those budget items? Where talking in partisan terms and electoral terms in its government does that appear? Does that appear in International and Inter- press releases out of the Public Affairs Bureau. So I wouldn’t governmental Relations, or is that somewhere in the Executive mind if you’d comment on the use of some, you know, $17 Council estimates? million worth of government money to provide a partisan mes- I am also curious about the issue of expenses for family. I think sage, which is I think four times more than all of the budgets of there was an issue earlier this year with one of your ministers the Official Opposition and the other opposition parties combined. travelling to London and putting the travel for her mother and EF-158 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013 daughter onto a corporate credit card. That, obviously, was not questions were raised with respect to that during those estimates, received well by the public. I do know that even those of us who and I have no particular comment on those. are not in the executive have the ability to have family members Any cars for any members of Executive Council, whether it’s travel with us. There are clear rules around it, that you can only my office or any others, come out of the Service Alberta budget, I have four round trips each year. We also can get reimbursed if we believe, so I’d direct you to them with specific questions. have family travelling with us for conferences and meetings With respect to the Regulatory Review Secretariat we are very sponsored by the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and a proud of the work that we’ve begun to do on that. One of my frus- variety of other things. But I do wonder what the rules are that trations was that prior to becoming leader, although the secretariat you’ve set for yourself and Executive Council. If your family were had been established, we had not seen it make much progress. We to travel with you, would that be something that you would pay think it’s very important to come forward with meaningful for privately, or is that something that would be covered by indicators. I would respectfully say that from my experiences with government? Are there similar limitations on the amount of family the CFIB I don’t think their indicators are terribly meaningful. I travel that you can have for yourself or for any of your ministers? don’t think that the number of regulations is the only indicator that The rules do seem to be a little bit different for those of us who are needs to be developed. not in the executive versus those who are in a ministry. We see, for example, CFIB very favourably analyzing work The other question I had was about the Regulatory Review that’s done in with respect to regulatory review. I Secretariat. I was quite excited about this moving into the think Nova Scotia two years ago reduced their regulations by 20 Premier’s office because, as you know, I think regulation and per cent, maybe even more. But if you actually talk to people in regulatory reform is crucial. The CFIB has asked for three things. the government of Nova Scotia and even businesses in Nova They want to see a benchmark of the total regulatory burden, they Scotia, most of those regulations were already irrelevant and want to see a meaningful target for reduction, and they want to see useless, so getting rid of them didn’t really matter because they annual progress on the advancement towards those targets. Can weren’t actually impacting anyone. We expect that it’s going to be you comment on the progress you’re making? very important to put in place meaningful indicators. It’s one of the reasons that we moved the secretariat to Executive Council, The Chair: Thank you, Ms Smith. and we’re looking forward to good progress with respect to that. The hon. Premier. The Chair: Thank you, Premier. Ms Redford: Well, thank you. Many of the questions that you’ve Now, seeing that we see no members from the third party, I asked are not part of any of the work that’s in the Executive would like to go to the fourth party. Speaking on behalf of the Council budget. Treasury Board deals with air transportation. Ser- NDP, Mr. Mason. vice Alberta deals with business services. So I’d direct you to ask them about those questions in particular. Ms Redford: Could I have a minute to answer one more With respect to staff in the Premier’s office, staff in the question? Premier’s office are paid through the Premier’s office budget, and those are the people that work for me. The Chair: Yes. You have a minute and 14 left. 7:50 Ms Redford: Sorry. I left a note over here. You are absolutely right that the rules with respect to family are The Leader of the Opposition’s first question was with respect different with respect to perhaps your position. I don’t know what to the politicization of the Public Affairs Bureau. We’re very rules you and the LAO follow. We have rules where, from my proud of the fact that a Progressive Conservative government was perspective personally, if my family travels with me, I pay those elected on April 23 of last year, coming up on a year, and we will expenses even though I believe that since the time that I became continue to talk about the fact that that government was elected to leader of the party and Premier of the province, there were rules in reflect the priorities of Albertans. place that would have allowed my family to travel with me. I will say that I find it ironic to be asked this question from a Whenever they have, we have paid all of those expenses party who refers to itself in its LAO literature as the, quote, Wild- personally. The one exception to that, I would say, is that there rose opposition. I will tell you that I think that in the true tradition have been perhaps two or three occasions when my 10-year-old of parliamentary process this is odd. I find it odd that there are has travelled with me not on a commercial flight but if I happen to MLAs from opposition political parties that are using their LAO be flying from Calgary and Edmonton on business. For example, budget to drive around in vehicles that still have partisan labelling once, right after my father-in-law died, she travelled with me. But on the side of them and are charging those expenses back to the in terms of any expenses that are incurred around my family, we LAO. pay them fully. In fact, my husband and daughter travelled with I think it’s very important right now that we ensure that all me to the Olympics. We paid for everything related to their Albertans can have . . . [interjection] My time? expenses and will continue to do that. The Chair: Yeah. Go ahead. You still have about 10 seconds. In fact, partly because of the scrutiny, my husband makes a particular point of not travelling with me on business because the Ms Redford: I think it’s very important right now that we ensure climate that we now see with respect to these issues is to the point that all Albertans can have confidence in the people that they where it puts him under so much discomfort that it’s easier for elected in their constituencies to represent them regardless of him to not travel than to actually travel with me. political party. With respect to security I have nothing to do with my security. Besides the fact that they travel with me, we are not involved in The Chair: Thank you, Premier. any decisions with respect to that. Budget for security comes out Mr. Mason. of the Department of the Solicitor General, and I understand that Mr. Mason: Thank you very much. April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-159

The Chair: Seven minutes. over-year increases, a large increase over the last couple of years, for the Public Affairs Bureau? Again, I’ll repeat that question Mr. Mason: I guess I get a whole seven minutes, so I’m just relative to the Public Affairs Bureau. I’d like to know if there are going to go right into the questions, but not before I make a com- other communications staff within line departments whose salaries ment with respect to what the Premier last said. The rules of this and costs are paid by those departments. place, ever since I’ve been here, set out by the LAO, are that 8:00 caucuses identify themselves by the party. We’ve always been the NDP caucus, and that is what we’re instructed to call ourselves by I want to deal with security because this is another issue. I heard the LAO. That corresponds to the government communications in what the Premier said with respect to this matter, but there’s been the Premier’s office, not in the supposedly nonpartisan Public a mushrooming of the security detail around this Premier, and I Affairs Bureau. find it hard to believe that those decisions are made exclusively by I want to ask about corporate human resources in the budget the Solicitor General without consultation with the Premier’s because I believe that the budget statement we have misstates the office. I’d like to know what that is, what communication there is. Premier’s budget. If I look at the 2013-14 budget estimates, the I don’t think that the Solicitor General would operate in a vacuum. 2012-13 budget is stated as $52,648,000, but the exact same There’s also been use of the Calgary Police Service to provide document from the previous budget shows that the 2012-13 security for the Premier. I understand that’s been discontinued, but estimate was $31,461,000. That is at least $10 million less. I’d like to know how that occurred and what the costs were for Now, that can be explained by the addition of corporate human that. resources, which was in a different department a year ago and was So my questions fall into three areas: the misstatement of the transferred to the Premier’s budget, which increased its budget by Premier’s budget relative to corporate human resources; secondly, over $10 million. But I believe, Mr. Chairman, that this budget the politicization and expansion of government communications in submitted by the Premier’s office misstates the actual state of a partisan role; and the question of security relative to the affairs because it claims that the estimate for the budget for 2012– Premier’s office. That’s all I need. Those are my three questions. 13 was $52,648,000 when, in fact, according to the actual budget Thank you. last year it was $31,461,000. It’s great to add $10 million to your budget and then cut a The Chair: Madam Premier. couple and then look like you’re a hero and have saved a lot of Ms Redford: Well, thank you. The first question, Brian – sorry. money, but actually the Premier’s budget this year is substantially higher, about $8 million higher, than it was a year ago. So I want Mr. Mason: In committee we can use first names, but I’ll still call to put that, first of all, on the record. you Premier. I want to deal with the politicization of government com- munications. This has been commented on by a number of Ms Redford: Thank you, Brian. commentators, that there are now press secretaries in every depart- I’m going to ask Peter Watson to just speak to that because I ment reporting to the Premier’s office that are taking partisan don’t think it is actually a misstatement of the budget. We’ll try to shots at opposition parties for doing their job. clarify that, and if you still disagree, then we’ll agree to disagree. I want to bring one example to the Premier’s attention. I’m But we’ll just have Peter speak specifically to that question around going to mention a name because he’s been public in a column in the numbers if that’s all right with you. the Edmonton Journal about that, and that’s Mark Cooper, somebody I’ve known for a long time and have a lot of respect for Mr. Watson: Thank you, Premier. To the base of $31.461 and who attempted in his previous position with the Public Affairs million, which was published in the estimates in Budget 2012, Bureau to walk a fairly narrow line of nonpartisanship and simply there were a number of transfers of functions into and out of representing government communications. Executive Council, which, when you add all the numbers up – and But under the new plan of transforming these people into press I’ll itemize them here quickly in a moment – gets us to the secretaries and partisanship in a partisan way, I was faced with a comparable ’12-13 budget of $52,648,000 that’s published in situation on Twitter not so long ago where, because of the position Budget 2013. we were taking relative to the Keystone pipeline, I was called by a Then, of course, the Premier has already indicated in her staff member working for a minister on Twitter as treasonous. comments some of the reductions that we’ve taken to reduce the You know, that’s just completely unacceptable, Madam Premier. comparable ’12-13 numbers from $52,648,000 down to That’s the kind of thing that we’re getting now from your office. $48,430,000 in our operational expense. Just to itemize those This comes from your office. These are partisan communicators, transfers from the original estimates published in Budget 2012, a paid for by the taxpayers, and instead of politicians criticizing transfer of corporate human resources into Executive Council of other politicians, we now have dozens of staff members . . . more than $21 million; a transfer of the Agency Governance Secretariat from Treasury Board and Finance approaching The Chair: Mr. Mason, I’d like to focus on the estimates, please. $300,000; a transfer of a couple of policy positions from the departments of Energy and Environment and Sustainable Mr. Mason: Yeah. This is in the estimates. Resource Development of a little more than $300,000; and a In my view, it’s a misuse of the public funds that has occurred transfer of some funding that was in various ministry budgets for under this Premier. The partisanship that has been shown by staff administration of cabinet committees. That funding was consoli- acting in place of politicians is, in my view, outrageous. dated into Executive Council, and that was a little more than $1.25 I’d like to ask a few questions. How many press secretaries are million. Then there was a transfer out of Budget 2013-14 for there? What is the total cost? Which budget pays for the press sec- support for the Deputy Premier function, to follow the Deputy retaries? Are there other communications staff, aside from press Premier into the Ministry of Enterprise and Advanced Education. secretaries, who have a partisan role within the line departments? When you add all those numbers up – and I haven’t quoted Where are they, and who pays for them? Why have we seen year- them exactly – you go from the little over $31 million estimate EF-160 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013 published in Budget 2012 to the comparable 2013 number. Then the budget that you have, and thank you to your staff. Off the bat I the Premier has commented on our reductions. would say through this message that I wish to thank all of the public employees – I guess there are around 80,000 in Alberta – Ms Redford: With respect to press secretaries, there are press serving in fantastic jobs, serving Albertans in their capacity. secretaries in each minister’s office and one in my office, for a I look at page 109 of the budget estimates here. I just look at it total of 17. Those press secretaries are paid for out of ministers’ from the accounting, the numbers. I feel that this is great to see the budgets. reduction that you talked about earlier, 6 per cent, or in the $2 Your last question was with respect to security. I cannot million, $3 million range in total, which is fantastic. I think that’s comment any further on it, Brian, except to say that it’s the an example of doing more with less. From that comment, my Department of Solicitor General who are the security experts that question is regarding the recent announcement on the salary freeze make the decisions with respect to security. We are not involved and the planned reduction for the management level of work in in those discussions. I simply live my life and have my life Alberta’s public service. These are the people who provide organized in the way that security decides to plan it, and that is essential services to support Alberta in health, safety, security, and absolutely the case. There is no dialogue that we are involved in all the other aspects that allow us to achieve the best outcome for with respect to that, and that is as it should be from my Albertans. perspective. 8:10 I think those were all of your questions. I guess I will stay within the seven minutes. If you or your staff The Chair: You have three minutes left, Brian. have to take notes of the questions as I go through, the main question would be: can you explain the rationale behind this Mr. Mason: Yeah. Well, it begs the question of why you’re eight decision of freezing salaries and the planned reduction in manage- times higher risk than . ment? Question 1 would be: how many people are being affected Ms Redford: I might just make a general comment, which is by the management payment freeze? Following that, I would ask: something that you referred to with respect to your comments, does that mean there is no opportunity for merit increases for which is that we are seeing a very different politicization of party exceptional performance? politics in government in Alberta right now. I think you’d prob- Question 3 would be: how much will the management reduction ably agree with me, because you’ve been here an awful lot longer, save over the three years, looking at the long-term plan for the that there is a certain personal tone to what’s happening in the three years? I just wonder whether this is an across-the-board re- political climate and the political environment right now that I duction of all the management, a certain percentage of everybody think is quite different than what I’ve seen growing up in this gets hit, or how it is arranged. Question 5 is: how did the province. You know, you said that you’ve had comments made government – I believe the number is 10 per cent – arrive at that with respect to you on Twitter. number? How did you come up with that? To continue on this subject, question 6 is: how will departments decide which Mr. Mason: By your staff. managers will be affected? That’s a really tricky part. From my corporation management experience before it is very, very tough Ms Redford: No. The staff of a department. to look at that. I would like to actually sit down, if you’d like, and make a Question 7 that I would ask is: how will this impact on the comparison with respect to the personal comments that may have program and the service delivery to Alberta? Once you have that been made about you and with respect to the personal comments thing lopped off, then what will happen? Question 8 I would say that have been made about me and my family. I won’t speak to is: you’re freezing the salaries and planning a reduction in whether that has an impact on security or not. But there’s a management, but is there a hiring freeze also being considered? I different political climate in this province right now. wrote it here, I guess probably my ninth question now: what message does this send to other public-sector workforces when Mr. Mason: I can certainly take whatever another politician you do that? What is the message you want to say there to the dishes out, Madam Premier, but I think I draw the line when staff people who still stay around? Question 10 here is: is there a paid by taxpayers are involved in personal attacks against concern that this decision may drive valuable public servants to opposition MLAs. I think that crosses the line. the private sector? Will they just quit and leave?

Ms Redford: Well, I certainly wish I could, too, Brian, but that’s The Chair: You have one minute left. not always the case. Mr. Cao: Well, in fact, it’s my last question here. Question 11, I Mr. Mason: Yes. Well, I do my own dirty work, Premier, and I’m think, is: how do you plan to keep employees engaged in the wake prepared to, you know, take it as well because it’s all part of the of this decision? After all of this reduction and freeze, how do you game. get them engaged back into the spirit and the body of it? Okay. Well, I guess that concludes my questions. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Cao. The Chair: About one and a half minutes left. Okay. That’s fine. Madam Premier. Thank you. Speaking on behalf of the PC caucus, Mr. Cao. Ms Redford: Thank you. I will try to make my way through these. First of all, while we have made a commitment to a 10 per Mr. Cao: Thank you, Chairman Moe. [interjections] Moe Amery. cent reduction over the next three years, we have not instituted a We use first names here. hiring freeze. We think that that would be counterproductive Premier, first of all, thank you very much for coming to our because very often what you will see happening then is certain committee and listening to all of the views and explaining to us divisions becoming demoralized. You end up just arbitrarily not April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-161 creating a positive climate where people need to work, which individual professionals that are providing services to families in speaks to the fact that we haven’t made a decision to have across- Alberta understand the importance of working with us in these the-board cuts. We were very clear around that before we very difficult fiscal times to make sure that we’re providing the introduced the budget. We think it’s important to be able to think services within the fiscal constraints that we have. thoughtfully about where we can be more effective with respect to So we’re very confident that through a renewal of the public the delivery of programs and services and to make sure that we service and a new approach to being able to deliver services as don’t impose anything like an across-the-board cut. well as a real change in the esprit de corps in the public service, We think that it’s possible through results-based budgeting to where we’re able to promote young managers and see significant really take a look at how we deliver value for taxpayers and change in senior leadership, there’s going to be tremendous continue to provide the programs and services that Albertans need. opportunity for progress. As we move forward, it’s going to be Results-based budgeting has been very effective for us. We’ve fundamental. As you said, there are 80,000 Albertans across this already seen very high levels of in-year savings. I think it’s well province that are providing services that are passionate about the over half a billion dollars in the past year, and we intend through work that they do. They care about their clients and want to make our independent challenge panels to continue to follow that sure they can deliver those services, and we want to support them process at a much more accelerated rate. What that’s allowing us in doing that. to do is to ensure that we’re still able to deliver the programs and Thank you. services that matter to Albertans. Over the next three years we expect that we will see savings as The Chair: Thank you, Premier. a result of this decision of about $54 million. We think that this The specified rotation between caucuses is complete. Now we will probably impact approximately 500 people who are currently will move to the portion of the meeting where any member may working in the public service over the next three years, and speak, and the speaking times are reduced to five minutes. departments are right now putting plans in place as a result of this My understanding, Ms Smith, is that you’ll be speaking on work plus results-based budgeting to ensure that we are effectively behalf of your caucus. You’ll have five minutes, and the Premier going to be able to continue, as I said, to deliver services. We will have five minutes. expect that the salary freeze overall affects about 4,800 public Ms Smith: Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I did want to give you, servants and that we will probably save approximately $50 million Premier, the opportunity to talk about – when we were going as a result of that freeze. through the six major elements of the strategic plan, your six It is still possible within the compensation packages for some priorities, we didn’t get an opportunity to talk about the last one, people, depending on their employment contract, to be able to so I did want to give you an opportunity to respond to that so you receive slight increases with respect to exceptional performance. It can give some indication of the direction that your government is not a given, an understanding, or an assumption that those might be going on the issue of early childhood development. Now, increases will happen, but there is still the opportunity for that I know that in the past you supported Paul Martin’s national upon recommendation by senior managers. We think that’s daycare program, so I have been looking to see what kind of important because as you’ve said so rightly, we’re in the middle of direction you’re intending to take with this early childhood renewal in our public service. We want to make sure that we’re development approach. It does seem to me that there wasn’t really supporting people that are innovative thinkers, that are thinking any indication in this budget of what elements of this plan you’re long term, that are being creative and coming up with new ways to going to be focusing on or whether this is going to be delayed ensure that we’re providing services to Albertans. until next year or the following year. If you could comment on One of the things that our Minister of Human Services is very that. fond of saying is that rules are for when brains stop working, and we want to make sure that we have a public service where we 8:20 have people on the front lines who are prepared to be innovative I would also like you to address if you could the question – and bold with respect to providing services, coming up with there was a lot that I was throwing at you, so I think you ended up solutions, and ensuring that we’re doing what’s best for Albertans. missing a fulsome answer to the question about what changed As we move forward, I think that we’re going to continue to be your mind on goal 4, rebalancing the fiscal framework. able to see tremendous renewal in the public service, different You may recall some of the comments that you made about the sorts of communication across regions. I know that we’ve issue of debt leading up to your victory in the PC leadership and certainly seen that with respect to the Department of Human then, of course, leading up to the election. “We have all heard of Services. the crises in Europe. Debt is the trap that has caught so many You’ll know also – and we shouldn’t forget this fact – that one struggling governments. Debt has proven the death of countless of the things that we’ve done in government is that we’ve dreams . . . Alberta does not have debt, and we will not incur debt. amalgamated different departments. We’ve put Seniors very That’s fundamental to what Albertans are proud of, and we’re closely tied to the work that’s happening in Health. We’ve brought committed to making sure that continues.” And we are a party of a number of departments together under Human Services because fiscal discipline; we are not a party of deficit; it’s entirely possible it made sense from a programming basis, not only from a for us to continue to provide the quality of life that we as Alber- budgetary basis, for clients that were receiving services from tans have without going into debt, and I’m committed to that. government. Those are pretty clear statements. We were very clear with Albertans in January that this was To see less than a year later the statements that are made in the going to be a tough budget, that we were going to have to make section under rebalancing the fiscal framework about going into tough choices, and that we wanted to make sure that we were debt for a capital plan as well as a fairly modest expectation of just doing it in a way that would allow for quality services to be maintaining our triple-A credit rating without really any indication delivered. We’ve been pleased and fortunate to have developed a of when we might get back to the high ideals that you were very strong partnership with the Alberta Teachers’ Association expressing before you won the leadership and before the election and today the Alberta Medical Association, where we’ve had our EF-162 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013 about being debt free – if you could just explain what happened in in the long term, and to see that sort of parallel in characterization your thinking on that and when we might expect to see Alberta I think is inappropriate, certainly from our perspective. It may not debt free again and just how deep into debt we’re actually going to be from yours. go. I think that Albertans would like some greater clarity, With respect to discussions around debt, again, I always find it especially on those two particular points. quite simplistic to listen to some political parties talk about what How much more time do I have, Mr. Chair? that means. From my perspective, investing in infrastructure is about investing in the future of the province. We want to make The Chair: Two minutes and 25 seconds. sure that while we’re investing in this infrastructure, which – let’s be clear – becomes capital assets, we’re investing in schools and Ms Smith: I wanted to get a little bit more granular on this issue hospitals and roads and bridges and waterways that we need now. of your staffing because I think this goes to the point that was Unfortunately, I think that one of the issues that the Wildrose raised by Mr. Cao earlier about where exactly the staffing cuts are opposition falls short on is somehow dismissing the fact that we going to come from. I noticed that there used to be a breakdown in need to invest in these. the annual reports between the office of the Premier and the Public We don’t want kids going to school under trees. We want to Affairs Bureau. In 2010-11 it was 62 members in the office of the make sure that senior citizens are taken care of in long-term care. Premier, 118 in the Public Affairs Bureau. The number we had in We heard at the Alberta Association of Municipal Districts and 2011-12 was an overarching number of 185. I wonder if you can Counties that we have to make sure that we have long-term break that down for us. In 2012-13 an overarching number of 370, investment with respect to bridges and roads. with the other services coming over, and then in 2013-14 an overarching number of 365. If you could give a little bit greater As we move forward, we know that our borrowing strategy is breakdown as to what those would be. responsible, it’s strategic, and it’s going to allow for continuing Also, I would like to maybe at this point bring forward my economic growth in the province. Is it the circumstance we’d like amendment just so that I have the opportunity to speak to it. If I to have? Of course not. But we know that there’s been a bitumen have another opportunity at the end of the evening . . . bubble, and we know that there’s been an impact. We want to make sure that in the long term we’re making the right decisions. The Chair: You have one and a half minutes left. We’re very proud of the fact that as part of our plan we will ensure that the servicing of debt is never more than 3 per cent of Ms Smith: So the amendment: I’ll circulate the requisite number general revenue. The reason that’s important, Mr. Chair, is of copies. The context for this is that the Premier’s office at a low because that ensures that there is some discipline with respect to point had about $4.3 million. If you had increased that with that, never borrowing for operating because it’s important to not inflation and population growth, it would have increased by 50 per have operating deficits. We want to make sure that that 3 per cent cent. Instead, it’s actually increased by 270 per cent. I happen to keeps us limited enough so that if revenues drop or if interest rates be of the view that if Mr. Klein was able to run the Premier’s go up, that ensures that we’re consistent with respect to what our office on $4.3 million, I think that showing some leadership, borrowing plan will be. To be very clear, we are borrowing to you’re able to lean out various aspects of your department as well make sure that we can do that in a way that’s investing long term as the Public Affairs Bureau. It would be a really good signal to in the infrastructure that Albertans need now as we have a hundred the province. thousand new people moving to the province every year. I’m focusing this on the Public Affairs Bureau, and I’m going to With respect to particular numbers in Executive Council, we move that have 12 people who run my office in Edmonton; four in Calgary; the estimates for Executive Council be reduced as follows: six in the correspondence unit; seven providing communications (a) for Public Affairs corporate services under reference 2.1 at page 110 by $1,437,000 and support to my office; 11 in the Deputy Minister and cabinet co- (b) for Public Affairs corporate communications under ordination office; 17 in the policy co-ordination office, which reference 2.2 at page 110 by $8,563,000 provides strategic policy and planning co-ordination for govern- so that the amount to be voted at page 109 for operational is ment; five supporting the Regulatory Review Secretariat, which $38,430,000. leads the regulatory reform agenda; two providing support to the The Premier may know that we have put forward our Wildrose Agency Governance Secretariat; six in protocol, co-ordinating alternative budget for the last four years. One of the commitments visiting foreign delegations and managing Government House; that we would have made in there was to reduce the Public Affairs and four providing administrative and communication support for Bureau by $10 million, so that’s why I’ve put forward this the Lieutenant Governor. So that’s 74 people in the office of the amendment, and I hope the committee members and your Premier and Executive Council. government will support that. Staffing for the Public Affairs Bureau is 113 FTEs. Sixty-five are professional communications staff that are seconded to The Chair: Thank you. ministries; 29 staff develop communications for the long-term Premier. strategic plan. Ms Redford: Well, thank you. Odd comment with respect to The staffing for corporate human resources totals 178 FTEs, kindergarten and Paul Martin’s national daycare program. with four staff in the Public Service Commissioner’s office. We’ve always believed that all-day kindergarten was important, I’ll take a moment, Mr. Chair, just to say that it would be a and that’s exactly what early childhood development program- mistake right now in the political climate in this world to be doing ming is about. We think there is a very particular difference anything to shut down the Public Affairs Bureau, which is one of between all-day kindergarten, which actually supports a curricu- our opportunities to tell Alberta’s story around the world. lum that allows children from the ages of five and six to begin to Thank you. be part of the education system, and making the false presumption that kindergarten is daycare. Kindergarten is part of a fundamental The Chair: Thank you, Premier. system that’s going to prepare children in this province for success Mr. Luan, you have five minutes. April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-163

Mr. Luan: All right. Thank you, Premier, for the opportunity to represent their interests, and that both feel successful in this. It’s ask some questions on behalf of my constituents and my wonderful that we’ve been able to do that. supporters, I guess, that sometimes go beyond my constituency. I With respect to opening markets, it’s been a very exciting year. just want to begin by saying that having the opportunity to work You know, we’re very fond of saying, of course, that the United with you in your caucus and to understand the passion and the States is our greatest trading partner, but we can’t rely on them energy that it brings to the table is absolutely wonderful. exclusively, which is one of the reasons that we’ve been spending But I do want to bring some comments and then some specific a great deal of time attracting investment and building markets in questions. One of the comments is about the work you’ve been Asia, looking to China, looking to India. You’ll know from some leading on, particularly helping to resolve the difficult decisions of the discussions we’ve already had around the development of we had to make in working out an agreement with the Alberta our international strategy that we need to go where developing Teachers’ Association and, most recently, today, with the Alberta economies are so that we’re ensuring that those economies that Medical Association. I must say that I have so many members of want our products are able to get them, which is one of the reasons the ATA and the AMA in my constituency, and during the course we’ve been working so hard with respect to the development of of the hard negotiations you can imagine how hard it was the east pipeline, which allows us to get oil product essentially to sometimes getting caught in the middle. Some of those are very India in exactly the same amount of time as if we were to export it dedicated supporters and sponsors. Unfortunately, when they were off the west coast. People find that to be an interesting fact, but it caught in this, they were not that pleased. But let me tell you that is actually true. when we reached an agreement, I got calls and e-mails about how Also, the fact that we’ve been able this past month to open our happy, how appreciative they are. So I want to thank you for that. Ottawa office has been tremendous. It’s been some years since the The specific question I want to ask is regarding your theme, Alberta office has been open in Ottawa. We had the opportunity Building Alberta, opening new markets. As you can see from very recently to open that, to have a celebration with many somebody like me with an immigrant background, I have a very members of our federal Conservative caucus there and talk about particular interest in this because with this, surrounded by our the fact that we have common interests and that we want to make province’s goal, I think you have a vision to lead Alberta to being sure that we’re communicating. What was most interesting to me one of the best places to live, work, and raise a family. about that opening was that I think we had well over 76 ambas- 8:30 sadors at that event. We’ve had tremendous follow-up since. You know, there are A couple of questions related to that here. One of the questions markets around the world, particularly in the Middle East, where is: what is being done to promote Alberta to an international we’ve seen tremendous willingness and interest to build audience? In particular, I’d like to hear you expand on – because I commercial partnerships. In fact, Mr. Chair, I think you were part know you’ve talked about this in the past – how developing of an event – was it this past week? – that involved over 17 Alberta’s energy and protecting our environment are two sides of ambassadors from Middle East countries coming to not only talk one coin, that you cannot do one without the other. Can you ex- about oil and gas but to talk about research and innovation as well, pand a little bit on your understanding of what that really means? where we can learn from other economies and other economies What’s the cost to Alberta when you take that kind of approach? can learn from us. The second question is: can you tell us how much the With respect to some of the campaigns that we’ve been involved government spends on advertising and why it is a good use of in, it’s been very important for us to be able to tell Alberta’s story. taxpayers’ dollars? I believe this is a question of several of my Last year we spent approximately $9 million on advertising. We supporters. I know you have some good reasons to explain that. know that we need to ensure that we have strategic perspectives on The third question is: what is government doing to make sure producing our advertising, on producing and purchasing our that when we spend those dollars for advertisements, we get the recruitment ads. Remember, we’re recruiting people from all over best buck out of it? Can you help us understand how you get the world. It’s not just selling our product; it’s attracting skilled there? workers to ensure that we have a competitive economy. Those are my questions. I really appreciate the opportunity to What’s been really interesting for me and I think is very hear the answers. important is that people talk about what it was like 20 years ago. I The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Luan. know that the opposition is very fond of doing that. The fact is Madam Premier. that it’s not 20 years ago. Washington in 2013 is a place where we need to have a strong presence. Ottawa is a place where we need Ms Redford: Thank you. How much time do I have, sir? to have a strong presence. We need to make sure that we’re being strategic with respect to publications in New York and The Chair: Five minutes. Washington where we’re telling the story as to who Alberta is and what our values are in 2013. Ms Redford: Okay. The first thing I’d say is that I think that we We were very effective, surprisingly to me, with respect to what can be very proud of the ATA agreement and the AMA agreement is a relatively small advertising budget, compared to people because people really came together through some very difficult opposed to the Keystone project, in getting very good placement times to come up with agreements that they all feel proud of. You on page A4 of the Washington Post the two days that I was in know, we are able as the government of Alberta to say that we Washington. This is a paper that does matter. It’s worth investing have provided a system that respects the fact that we have that money in those ads to tell our story so that people understand professionals that are providing services to the citizens of Alberta, exactly what the issues are as their mind is turned to the decision and those doctors and those teachers know that they’re coming to that they need to make with respect to that project. the table in a meaningful way to ensure that we’re building a Thank you. system that’s sustainable in the long run. I think that the best sort of negotiation always has to be where both groups feel that The Chair: Thank you, Premier. they’ve been to the table, understand the issues, have been able to Ms Smith. Five minutes. EF-164 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013

Ms Smith: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do just want to address a consultation, the legislation, would be introduced sometime before couple of the issues that you responded to, Ms Redford, in your the end of May. Of course, we all know that we’re going to be out last statements. First of all, I was struck by something that you did of the Legislature, based on the calendar, by the first Thursday in say in the Legislature: “Simply because the opposition stands up June. So I said, “Minister, does that mean that you’re going to and says something, as I say over and over again, doesn’t make it introduce the bill, and we’re going to go through second reading, true.” Well, we could say the same thing about some of your Committee of the Whole, third reading, and get royal assent in statements as well, Ms Redford. Just because you say that we essentially 10 days?” He said, “Yeah.” And I said, “Well, with due don’t have a plan to build, it doesn’t make it true. We did put respect, Minister, I don’t think that that is quite in keeping with forward a 10-year debt-free capital plan that would have $4 billion the openness and also the promise made during the election worth of spending this year, escalating over the course of the next campaign that we would have more time between proposing and 10 years. voting on legislation.” We happen to think that infrastructure is actually a core 8:40 function of government, not something that you do if you have money left over or if you happen to have an oil boom or if you can That certainly does not give the time to opposition for such a convince Albertans to borrow for it. We think that this actually is substantial piece of legislation, that is going to be impacting our a pretty essential and critical role for government, and you have to energy sector. That comes up again and again in my discussions change and structure your spending plans accordingly. Now, I’m with them. To have that little time between being able to propose sure that your staff don’t brief you on everything that we say, but I and vote on legislation does not strike me that you’re making thought I would give you that clarification so that you don’t say much progress, frankly, on being able to develop a better policy- the same thing over and over again incorrectly. making process. I think you would see that it would translate into I am also a bit confused about why you took such umbrage to how the Legislature functions. my last question about what your plans are for early childhood I guess with that in mind I’d kind of like to understand what you development because when I look at the priorities, it doesn’t say think the role of your backbench MLAs is and what you think the anything here about full-day kindergarten. I guess that’s why I role of the opposition is. It certainly doesn’t seem that with that think Albertans are wondering what it is you have in mind for kind of practice there’s much respect for free votes of your own early childhood development because you clearly haven’t acted on members and certainly no respect for the role the opposition must full-day kindergarten. play in being able to put forward good amendments, in being able There are other elements here which suggest it’s something to consult with stakeholders, and to be able to augment the bigger than that. You talk about children realizing their full poten- processes. tial when they enter school. You talk about parents being provided The Chair: Thank you, Ms Smith. early learning years information and practical tools that help Premier. support their child’s development. You talk about a made-in- Alberta early years approach that will be developed to provide Ms Redford: Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it’s very responsive early learning and care options that help children to important that we understand that putting a capital plan in place reach their developmental potential by the time they enter school. and not putting money behind it isn’t actually a capital plan. We That sounds like something quite different than full-day won’t back away from the position where we believe that that’s kindergarten. That’s why I’m trying to seek clarity about what it is the case with respect to the opposition infrastructure plan. you have in mind. I will also say that one of the other issues that was very You do then say that success is measured by children realizing important to us in this budget was to ensure that while we did have their developmental potential in their first years of life. Now, to make tough choices – it’s very easy to sort of throw out the surely you’re not going to start kindergarten at age one, two, or line: well, you have to reprioritize your spending. Part of what that three, so the fact that you’ve got those four elements in your child would suggest, Mr. Chair, is that if you were in fact going to development plan I think requires just a little bit of clarity since in invest $4 billion in capital plans in this budget, that would lead to this budget we actually haven’t seen any concrete measures being a corresponding $4 billion cut in services, and we don’t think taken one way or the other, whether it’s for kindergarten or that’s acceptable. We don’t think it’s acceptable that we would whether it’s for some of the other things that are mentioned there. make that sort of an impact with respect to Albertans’ quality of So if you could provide some clarity about where you’re going on life when we don’t have to. We are able to make these choices to that in the next couple of years. put in place a sensible plan for long-term infrastructure growth The other question I have goes to goal 2 in your business plan, and continue to provide services to Albertans. about government policy, planning, and decision-making. You do These characterizations with respect to early childhood develop- talk about it being supported by the best policy advice from the ment are ridiculous. As I sit and listen to the wording that this hon. public service. I guess I’m wondering where that intersects with member has quoted, I very clearly see that an ongoing investment one of the other promises that you made during the election cam- in Education, over $36 million in this budget for early childhood paign when you wrote a column for the about the development, can easily include all-day kindergarten as well as need to change how the Legislature and MLAs operate. More options for parents who may not choose to put their kids in all-day free votes so MLAs can reflect constituents’ views. kindergarten. But to somehow suggest that this is not something Of course, we agree with that. We have free votes in the that’s seeing action in this budget I find slightly ridiculous. Legislature all the time. I would also say, Mr. Chair, that the work that we’ve brought More time between proposing and voting on legislation. More forward around groups like this, the introduction of legislative collaboration among departments so that initiatives mesh in committees, in the Alberta Legislature has been a profound achieving goals. change. I actually know when we first introduced the concept that The reason I raise that in particular is that I had a very even though it’s part of parliamentary tradition, it hasn’t been part disappointing meeting today with your Minister of Aboriginal of the tradition of the Alberta Legislature to have all-party Relations, who told me that the aboriginal framework for April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-165 committees with co-chairs from opposition parties such as your It’s always hard to bring forward new ideas and new perspec- co-chair sitting at the front of the room right now to be able to tives, and we certainly, frankly, find that in the public service. I bring forward legislation that isn’t necessarily government think the reason for that is that it’s human nature. I mean, even legislation, to interview witnesses, to be part of the public policy when we talk to people in our constituencies about bold new process. It is fundamental, we think, to changing the way that ideas, they find themselves that in their own lives, if they’re trying legislative committees work. to introduce change, it’s not always an easy thing. You’re right. In We’re proud of our caucus system. We’re proud of the difficult fiscal times that sometimes makes it more challenging. legislative system. Very often with change once the change comes But we have really taken the approach, since I became Premier, and it makes sense, people forget what it used to be like before. of really respecting the fact that we have a public service that, as All-party legislative committees are fundamental to the you said, is committed to providing services to Albertans. There parliamentary process just as ensuring that we have good, solid are people in our public service who live in our constituencies debate in the Legislature is. We want to make sure that that who get up every day and go to work, and when they leave work change is reflected as something that we think is a true at the end of the day, they want to feel good about what they advancement with respect to the democratic process in the accomplished. They don’t want to be sitting at a desk following a Legislature. set of rules that they haven’t helped to build, that don’t seem to Thank you. make a lot of sense, that don’t reflect Alberta in 2013, and then go home and make supper and cut the grass and come back to work The Chair: Thank you, Premier. and do the same thing the next day. Ms Olesen. For us it’s been really important to put in place thoughtful processes, some of which you’ve already referred to such as job Ms Olesen: Thank you. I’m really excited about how we talk trades and that sort of thing, that allow people not only to have a about organizational transformation and public-sector renewal. I different experience but then to have a different perspective when was encouraged to hear you speak about empowering staff, allow- they go back to their original positions and perhaps come up with ing them to be able to be bold and make change. It’s a cultural better solutions. change, and sometimes it can be very hard. You know, we think that it’s very important to reduce the Now, some of the tools that we’ve implemented to help this overall size of management in the public service because we think change. The internal audit is one of the tools, the Child and Youth there are many people in the public service, as I said, who can take Advocate as an independent body, the Auditor General being able responsibility for making many of the decisions that need to be to do some of their own investigations, whistle-blower legislation. made, very often closer to the front line. In fact, if we look at These are all ways that we can look at doing this transformation. I management generally, it’s a more conventional approach to how guess my question would be: in the face of these fiscal challenges we organize systems to somehow presume that people need to be and pressures is now really the right time to look at these only at the senior level in order to make some of those decisions. organizational shifts? It’s about a comfort level as well for staff There’s a very good Harvard business case model. They have a and the people who work really, really hard in our lives and in plan where front-line workers can make decisions that would their lives to make our communities and our province the best they change policy. They write a memo to their immediate supervisor, can be. How will these changes impact them in their day-to-day and if their immediate supervisor hasn’t gotten back to them in 30 operations of their jobs? days to tell them why they shouldn’t do it, then they have Have we considered things such as – I know when I was with permission to make that change. It works that way throughout the the county, we did nonmonetary compensation, and it was a way system. We’re starting to implement those sorts of approaches in to make the quality of life at the workplace better for staff. There the public service because we want to make sure that people are was in-house training that wasn’t expensive; it’s not all about empowered, and that’s going to be really important in order to money. Those were some of the things we looked at. We did some attract people and to retain people in the public service. job trades at a professional level. We had operations managers trade places with water and sewer. There were all kinds of really 8:50 creative things that we did, and they were really happy to do it. It Over the next five years one of the things that I am very hopeful was about a healthy workplace environment. for – and we’re already starting to see it, and I’m quite excited by I guess as we look down the road, too, corporate culture change it – is to be able to attract young people back to the public service takes a really long time, and I know each term is four years. I as opposed to the private sector because of the opportunity to know sometimes when you talk about corporate culture change, it engage in policy development, to be able to see the chance to takes 10 years. I guess maybe cutting that in half, what would you think about ideas that they’ve learned about through their see it looking like in about five years? What would be some of the academic training, and then come to government and implement ideas that you would see, and how would it look different? those ideas. They may be people that have been thinking about I guess the big, overall umbrella is: what does reaching our full particular sectors. They may be people that are thinking about par- potential look like? I guess that would mean as far as staff, the ticular systems. They may be passionate Albertans, or they could province, the government: all of these different things. If you be new Albertans. They’re people that are giving the public sector could give me some of your ideas on that, I’d like to hear. an opportunity because they think there is opportunity for change in the environment and also in the political structures that allow Ms Redford: Thank you. I reflect often on that word, “change.” for that to happen. From our perspective in the long term it’s You know, very often when you’re trying to introduce change, going to be important for us to be able to do that. you will hear from various quarters: well, that’s all fine, but that’s The other piece that is important – and it’s part of how we’ve not the way we did it before. We hear in political dialogue that it challenged ourselves in government – is the results-based budget- was better to do things the way we used to do them than the way ing process, where we’ve said: does this make sense anymore? we’d like to do them in the future. We certainly even find that in Even though we’ve been delivering a program for 20 years or 30 our own caucus, as you know. years, does it still make sense to deliver that program? If we’re EF-166 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013 trying to achieve an outcome, is that the outcome that we want to University of Alberta and the University of Calgary to ensure that get to? Is that still the goal that we need to meet? To actually go residents are able to spend time in rural communities and build back to what that outcome should be, then whether we’re deliver- those relationships and hopefully stay in those communities. ing that service in the most appropriate way and then whether or The other thing that’s been very important – and it’s actually not we’re doing it in the most cost-effective way is where we can part of the AMA agreement, which is going to be fundamental continue to move with results-based budgeting. with respect to both primary care networks and family care clinics We’ve put in place challenge panels that are made up of – is that we’ve seen a model in the past where we’ve tried to business leaders, community stakeholders, people that represent encourage multidisciplinary teams through approaches like pri- the not-for-profits who are coming forward as part of committees, mary care networks to be very active in rural communities. Many understanding this approach and challenging our own public of them have been very successful. We think family care clinics servants to ensure, again, that we’re not doing things the way that are also important to that. The fundamental connection between we used to just because that’s the way that we’ve always done the two is that we’ve seen primary care networks that have worked them. very effectively in rural areas that have been trying to find ways to We think that that’s what Albertans are demanding. They want jump through administrative hoops, as you said, because they new approaches, new ideas, and they want to make sure that we’re continue to be paid on a patient-by-patient basis. being responsive. They want to make sure we’re using technology, We think it’s important to work with the AMA – and it’s part of that we’re building on social media, that we’re understanding that the agreement that we signed today – to find ways to structure in a province where we have both rural and urban communities, physician compensation so that you can see physicians in rural we can connect through that technology. areas able to have a very impactful and successful career, profess- Thank you. sion, and livelihood, so that perhaps they may make that choice to stay in a rural community and not move to an urban community The Chair: Thank you, Premier. because there’s only one model for paying physicians. That’s Mr. Donovan, five minutes. something that family physicians have been quite vocal about, have done a lot of work with on. I think we’re going Mr. Donovan: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I probably won’t be to see some great successes there because we are able now, as that long. I just have a couple of things. we’ve been advocating for for some time, to put in place different Now, your Member for Calgary-Hawkwood – I wasn’t going to compensation models that allow physicians to work in a get into this – did blow a little smoke about the doctors and the multidisciplinary approach with other health care professionals AMA agreement and that, so I thought it would be kind of fair and still be compensated even though it’s not perhaps the doctor game. My question is about rural doctor retention. How are we that’s seeing the patient. going to help my rural hospitals and clinics, especially in Little You know, very often the other challenge in rural communities Bow, for instance, to get doctors to stay out there? What kind of is that you see physicians who are overworked because the only plan do you have there? Right now in Calgary walk-in clinics are way that they can be paid is if they as the doctor see the patient. putting through 80 to 100 people a clinic, and they get paid per We know very well that there are very strong, successful models capita that goes through. We purely don’t have those numbers in in places like Taber, in Milk River, where we have incredibly rural Alberta that can get to there, so we need to come up with a competent nurse practitioners and registered nurses that are better system that’ll keep rural hospitals and clinics attainable working in partnership teams with doctors and able to do a lot of because if we’re going to make a better Alberta, we need to have the work so that doctors can have both a quality of life and an that as an option. That’s the main one that I have. income that allows them to stay in rural communities. So the I think I can share my five minutes, can I, Mr. Chair? No? All AMA agreement today is very important for that. right, then I’ll just continue talking about great things in this We are very passionate about ensuring that no matter where a province. senior citizen lives in this province, long-term care is available, First, I mean, I’ll commend you for the family travel part. I and we want to make sure that it’s the best long-term care that can think that is good to see. Some of your ministers or past ministers be available in the community that they live in. We think it’s might have wanted to see that little memo beforehand, but that is important because of that to put in place structures that allow a what it is, and it’s done now, so we can move from that. person to age in place and to make sure that we’re providing a safe One of the big things is that we just got a 1,200-page FOIP back and a quality health care environment to allow them to do that. from the Carmangay situation. It’s been dialed in that there were That is our goal. It’s fundamental, we think, to the respect that we quite a few things that maybe didn’t happen that should have need to have for Alberta seniors. happened. Communication was one of them. I think it’s like As we move forward, I think that it’s very important for us – everything else. It all takes time to roll with that, how we’re going and it’s a commitment that we’ve made as a government, and our to do it. One of the things we can look forward to on that is maybe Minister of Health has been very committed to this – to ensure not closing those facilities again – I think we need them – and that we’re dialoguing with communities so that they understand making sure it doesn’t happen again. I think that was seen in that, exactly why the programs are being developed. Some of those but it goes back to open communication. I think that’s something systems will be developed through municipal government. Some that was campaigned on, and I’d hope that through your leadership of them will be developed by private-sector delivery models. you could make sure that happens a little more often. Some of them will be developed by . I’ll just leave it at that, so you can answer there. We see an ability to have a number of services provided in very Ms Redford: Thank you very much. I think that’s a very short order at a number of facilities available that are going to pro- important question with respect to doctor compensation and the vide more effective long-term care for patients. It’s going to be, in fact that we do have some programs in place already with respect my mind, transformative in terms of the way that families can to things like the rural physician action plan, some of the make choices with respect to the quality of life that Alberta scholarship support that we have for residents through the seniors will have. So as we move forward, we will continue to ensure that Alberta Health Services lives up to the commitment April 15, 2013 Alberta’s Economic Future EF-167 that we think they need to make to administer these programs that front, to expand the markets as well as promoting the national effectively. energy strategy. Could you comment on that, please? You know, it’s very unfortunate when families feel vulnerable in any way. I’m not going to minimize that fact. I think it’s very Ms Redford: Well, thanks for the question. I will be quick. The important for us to be consulting and to be working with people to first thing I would say is that this is such an important piece of ensure that we have respect for families because, of course, work that we do in government that, from our perspective, it change is important. Change is important to be discussed in a way doesn’t need to be something that is segregated or put in a silo. that people understand not just what the change is but why it’s We think it’s important for every minister that’s involved in happening and what the concerns might be. telling Alberta’s story to be able to do that. We think it’s As we move forward, I think it’s a very valid point that you important, frankly, for all MLAs to be able to talk about what make with respect to always striving to improve the system, and I Alberta’s values are and why we are so committed to environ- would certainly say that that’s possible and that there is no doubt mental sustainability and economic development. that in some circumstances, as with many things in government, It’s very unfortunate, from my perspective, when we hear we can see better opportunities for success. We’ll continue to opposition MLAs that do less than that, because we don’t think make sure that we ask people to strive to do better because that that’s good for Alberta. It’s important for us to say that we fundamentally that’s the only way that we can bring change about. understand that climate change matters. It’s important for us to be There’s no sense looking 20 years back, but we can make change able to say that we’re committed to ensuring that it’s possible to now that’s comfortable for people. have a national dialogue. We’ll continue to travel not just to open new markets but to make sure that we’re talking to decision- The Chair: Thank you very much, Premier. makers in Ottawa, in other provinces, in Washington, and in other Ms Redford: Thank you. capitals with respect to things like the fuel quality directive in Europe so that we understand exactly where we need to talk to The Chair: Now we have two minutes left. people about Alberta’s story. Mr. Bhardwaj. The Chair: Thank you very much, Premier. I’d like to thank you, Mr. Bhardwaj: Okay. Thank you very much. I’ll go one minute, Premier, and thank your staff and all the members who and I’ll leave one minute for the Premier to comment. participated for these two incredible hours. Premier, thank you very much. Given the current state of our Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize for the interruption, but I economy it’s more important now than ever before – and I know must advise the committee that the time allotted for this item of you talk about this – to get the real Alberta story out there, to tell business has concluded. it to the other provinces, to tell it to the national audience, and to I would like to remind committee members that the next two tell it to the international audience. But when I’m looking at meetings scheduled for the Standing Committee on Alberta’s Budget 2013-14, there is absolutely no dedicated budget to Economic Future are this Wednesday from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. to promote Alberta nationally and internationally. My question consider the estimates of the Ministry of International and Inter- would be: what is being done to get our message out to the rest of governmental Relations and on Monday, April 22, from 7 p.m. to the world? 9 p.m. to consider budget estimates for the Ministry of Agriculture 9:00 and Rural Development. Thank you, everyone. This meeting is adjourned. Your visits to Washington were extremely valuable. When I talked to my constituents, you got kudos for doing a good job on [The committee adjourned at 9:02 p.m.]

EF-168 Alberta’s Economic Future April 15, 2013

Published under the Authority of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta