Wednesday October 17, 2012
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607 Leave of Absence Wednesday, October 17, 2012 SENATE Wednesday, October 17, 2012 The Senate met at 10.00 a.m. PRAYERS [MADAM VICE-PRESIDENT in the Chair] LEAVE OF ABSENCE Madam Vice-President: Hon. Senators, I have granted leave of absence to Sen. James Lambert who is out of the country, and Sen. Elton Prescott SC, who is ill. We will have to return to this item when we do get the instruments of appointment at a later point in the debate. APPROPRIATION (FINANCIAL YEAR 2013) BILL, 2012 [Third Day] Order read for resuming adjourned debate on question [October 15, 2012]: That the Bill be now read a second time. Question again proposed. Madam Vice-President: Those who have spoken on Monday, October 15, 2012: Sen. The Hon. Larry Howai, Minister of Finance and the Economy, the mover of the Motion, Sen. Dr. Lester Henry, Sen. Subhas Ramkhelawan, Sen. The Hon. Kevin Ramnarine, Sen. Shamfa Cudjoe, Sen. Corinne Baptiste-Mc Knight, Sen. The Hon. Christlyn Moore, Sen. Helen Drayton, Sen. The Hon. Jamal Mohammed and Sen. James Lambert. Those who have spoken on Tuesday, October 16, 2012: Sen. The Hon. Vasant Bharath, Sen. Terrence Deyalsingh, Sen. Dr. Rolph Balgobin, Sen. The Hon. Fazal Karim, Sen. Faris Al-Rawi, Sen. Dr. Victor Wheeler, Sen. The Hon. Emmanuel George, Sen. Deon Isaac, Sen. Dr. Lennox Bernard, Sen. The Hon. Embau Moheni and Sen. The Hon. Devant Maharaj. Any Senator wishing to join the debate may do so at this time. The Attorney General (Sen. The Hon. Anand Ramlogan SC): Thank you very much, Madam Vice-President. Madam Vice-President, permit me to start by welcoming to the Senate on the Government side, my dear friend and colleague, the hon. Minister of Justice, Sen. Christlyn Moore and, of course, our colleague from Tobago, Sen. Sherry-Anne Rollocks-Hackett, and on the other side, Sen. Deon Isaac. [Desk thumping] 608 Appropriation Bill, 2012 Wednesday, October 17, 2012 [SEN. THE HON. A. RAMLOGAN SC] Madam Vice-President, this budget is a very important one. It comes in our midterm at a very critical juncture in the People’s Partnership tenure in office, and I want to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and the Economy for taking the baton, receiving it from his predecessor, the hon. Minister Winston Dookeran, and running this leg of the race with distinction and great prowess. [Desk thumping] Minister Dookeran was able to stabilize the ship of state at a time when the waters were very choppy; at a time when the international and global economic meltdown affected economies and impacted on them in ways that were unimaginable, and hitherto thought not possible at all. We have only to look at what is happening in the United States of America and, of course, in Europe to see why Trinidad and Tobago should be very proud of the fact that the economic stability that Winston Dookeran brought to bear, as Minister of Finance, is something that we should all pay commendation to. Having stabilized and having kept pace with the pack, however, there comes a time in the race when having kept pace you will need to pull a little ahead and change gears. I think that is why I want to compliment the hon. Prime Minister for her choice in ushering in a new dawn and era in the financial affairs of this country by appointing the hon. Minister Larry Howai as Minister of Finance and the Economy to take that baton and to now try and step out and change gears, so that the economy can be stimulated and we go towards prosperity. In the past we had to stabilize and we had some serious holes in the ship, and we had to first identify those holes, plug those leaks and then change course and direction very slowly. And, of course, those holes were, matters such as the Clico matter, which we inherited—$20 billion bailout package—the Hindu Credit Union and several other matters which I would come to. But I think it sends a positive signal when the Prime Minister can choose someone who is a distinguished banker and someone with a proud and distinguished track record in the financial sphere of our business life in Trinidad and Tobago, and that will no doubt generate confidence in its own right. [Desk thumping] The Ministry of the Attorney General, Madam Vice-President, is not really a deliverable Ministry, and by that I mean there are no tangibles—I cannot boast as to how many kilometres of roads I have paved or how many schools I have built, but it is the second highest office in the Executive arm of the State. It is the only one apart from the Office of the Prime Minister that is provided for expressly in the Constitution, and it therefore plays a pivotal role in the affairs of State and in the governance process. 609 Appropriation Bill, 2012 Wednesday, October 17, 2012 I think if I may relate the role of the Ministry of the Attorney General to a debate on the economy and the budget, I would have to focus on the aspect of my portfolio which has the most direct impact on the economy, and that is the litigation portfolio of the Ministry of the Attorney General because the litigation against the State has deep-seated ramifications and consequences for the Treasury, and oftentimes that relationship is blurred and sometimes not highlighted for the citizenry to appreciate the role the Ministry of the Attorney General plays in assisting the economy of Trinidad and Tobago. As Attorney General, I must defend litigation against the State, and I do so with the bottom dollar in mind. I must do so to ensure that when the State is sued we can minimize the payout because when people sue, they want money, whether it is violation of their constitutional rights, whether it is breach of contract, negligence, at the end of the day justice is measured by compensation in monetary terms. So I must minimize the payout when we are sued. Conversely, when the public purse—in the same way I protect and defend the public purse when there is a lawsuit against the State, or any of its functionaries, likewise, when the public purse is being plundered and robbed, I equally have a duty to make sure that I sue in the public interest so that the public purse can be reimbursed so that we can get justice for the people of this country. [Desk thumping] It is against that backdrop we have to analyse the history of the litigation that we have inherited at the Ministry of the Attorney General. Madam Vice-President, what we inherited in terms of the avalanche of litigation was reminiscent of the California Gold Rush—that is what it reminded me of. And I say that because there was a complete absence of procedures, process and systems, and as a result of that there was a rush to exploit that grey area, that twilight zone for the benefit of private individuals and private corporations. And it really begged that question; why it is that we created fertile ground for litigation against the State by having such bad governance practice? Why did we not attempt to have some systems and procedures, and to have where the contract stipulated: X, Y and Z must be done, that we did not actually follow it? You know, the State in Trinidad and Tobago, prior to my assumption of office, it was accustomed being in a reactive mode—it reacts. Anybody sue the State and everybody could sue the State, and the State will react by trying to defend, but the one thing that I found very, very interesting is that the State was unaccustomed to actually suing. [Desk thumping] The State would not sue but the State could be sued. It was a “bobolee” to beat up—but the State would never take action to sue. 610 Appropriation Bill, 2012 Wednesday, October 17, 2012 [SEN. THE HON. A. RAMLOGAN SC] Madam Vice-President, I am proud to say that I have changed that and the State under my tenure as Attorney General is suing, and suing hard to recover money for the Treasury where there was corruption and misconduct in public office. [Desk thumping] There were two areas where the avalanche of litigation was characterized and prompted by this absence of systems and process, and those two areas were the construction sector and the energy sector. In the construction sector, we had a construction boom and a lot of mega projects were undertaken—and we all know about the cost overruns, and so on; there is no need to remind ourselves about it. We had the Uff Commission of Enquiry and we all know about the cost overruns, but apart from the cost overruns—because cost overruns really mean that is money “yuh” pay—you budget it to cost $100 million to build but it end up costing $250 million, but that means you are paying $150 million extra. But what it does not mean is that it does not tell you the invisible extra price tag that comes with the litigation that is pending. So the cost overruns—nobody bothers to put a footnote to say, well, although there is a cost overrun here of so much, we still have X and Y amount as a contingency, which could be added on. And the construction boom was mainly undertaken through three vehicles: UDeCoTT, Nipdec and HDC. When one looks at what we inherited; UDeCoTT, $1 billion—$900 million, close to $1 billion— $1 billion in legal claims against UDeCoTT when we assumed office—$1 billion.