Interview Rob Scheps Cadence: What in your past helped shape your broadly eclectic performance & recording career? Scheps: Well, that’s a broad question! Early influences are 50’s and 60’s rock & R&B. Especially King Curtis’ tenor solos with the Coasters. This is why I remain open to pop music in addition to jazz. Over the years I’ve arranged and played pieces by Jackie Wilson, U2, Aretha Franklin and Joan Osborne, simply because there was something there for me that resonated. Cadence: But how did you develop an affinity for the Jazz avant-garde? After all, you have worked with Muhal Richard Abrams, Sam Rivers, Julius Hemphil and Henry Threadgill... Scheps: Don’t forget Cecil Taylor. I think the term “avant-garde” is limiting. BUT, I think when you’re deep into Coltrane, like I was from age 11 on, you eventually get led to “”Sun Ship”, “Ascension”,”Interstellar Space”– i.e., later Coltrane where rubato and freedom are more at play, although deep pulse and soul remain. Muhal, Sam, Julius–these men are true originals. Their playing and composing come from a very personal and unique place. They are instantly identifiable. However, you’re doing yourself a disservice if you ignore their backgrounds in straight ahead, swinging jazz. All 3 of them swing their asses off, as do Roswell Rudd, Ornette, John Gilmore, Gary Peacock, Henry Grimes and other so-called “avantgardists. Food for Thought, huh? Also, I heard Ornette, Archie Shepp, and Sun Ra, at about 13 and loved their music. Cadence: What was it like socially being a 16 year old going into The New England Conservatory of Music? Scheps: It was great. I was out of the ridiculous confines of American high school life, and doing what I really wanted to do. I had so many friends at NEC with common interests and goals. I had a beautiful Ukrainian-American girlfriend, and my teachers were masters like Jimmy Giuffre, Fred Hersch, George Russell, Ran Blake, Tom McKinley. Plus I could soak up the culture of Boston and Cambridge. A great opening for me in my life. I also had many friends who were considerably older than me, which has usually been the case for me. Particularly fellow students like Rachel Z, Carl Stormer, Nelson Rangell, Chip Kaner, Joel Weiskopf, John Medeski. Cadence: At what age did you feel that you developed your own authentic artistic voice? Scheps: I would have to let others be the judge of that. I know my influences, but how can you say when your playing became original? Cadence: Well an example would be Terence Blanchard’s recent remarks that conceptually (in terms of his writing style) he always wanted to be like Wayne Shorter. But upon meeting and interacting with Wayne; Terence realized that their two personalities were not alike at all. This then helped him towards creating his own singular composing style? See my point? Scheps: I see. Well, I think everyone has a different experince with creativity and individuality. If you happen to be an original voice as a player or composer, part of that is intrinsic in you. Cadence: Let’s go back to three iconic figures whom you studied with and what each of them imparted to you personally and musically. I speak of Fred Hersch, the late George Russell and Ran Blake? Scheps: Those are three heavy musicians. With Fred, I worked on harmony and composition. I feel that Fred is one of the finest pianists out there. He combines real deep swing and a knowledge of jazz tradition with an esoteric sensitivity, plus just a great touch on the piano.I also wanted and received from him the perspective of a non-saxophonist. As for Ran, well, he‘s a horse of a most unusual color. In fact, he is a tribute to individuality by his very existence. Sui generis, for sure. Music is wider than jazz for him–Greek music; Earth, Wind, & Fire; Billie Holiday–it all feeds him. Also, Ran codified a unique teaching approach. While it’s not necessarily for everyone, I found it valuable because he stresses ear training. He also loves old black and white films, and this is an area that even as a teenager studying with him, I could share. In fact, I once went to 30 Hitchcock films in one month during a retrospective at the Brattle Theatre in Harvard Square. Ran came up in Connecticut where Gospel church choirs were a huge influence on him. This is another area I could enjoy. George Russell was huge in my life. He’s one of the people who made NEC attractive to me as a school. I grew up listening to The Outer View, one of his great sextet albums. His music always swings, but it’s fresh and different. The reason is the Lydian Chromatic Concept, or as George called it, simply “The Concept.” George was a very erudite theoretician, but it always led to some bluesy, swinging music, or in later years, some great funk and new grooves. When you studied with George or played in his bands, you entered HIS jazz universe, sui generis, one of a kind. He taught the same great pieces to many generations of Boston students. All About Rosie was key. When I asked George who Rosie was, he replied “I’ll never tell.” George was there in the maelstrom of creativity that led to the Birth of the Cool sessions with Miles and Gil Evans. Johnny Carisi, Gerry Mulligan and others were also part of this informal jazz think tank that centered on Gil’s 52nd Street basement apartment in Manhattan. I’d say George’s contribution to that scene AND to Miles’s uses of modes on Kind Of Blue were more attributable to George than he ever got credit for. George always talked of his early history–Charlie Parker, Sheila Jordan, etc. He was a drummer with Benny Carter, but was bested out of that gig by Max Roach. Russell attended Wilberforce University in Ohio, where Frank Foster also went. The thing with Max led to George switching to piano. When I asked him in the 1980’s why he never played piano anymore as a performer, but had on all the sextet records, he replied, ”well, man, I would’ve looked pretty silly conducting a sextet.” George had a sly sense of humor, and sometimes he kidded people without them realizing it. I’m not going to delve into the Concept here, except to say that it is grounded in physics, and makes more musical sense than some traditional ways of thinking about music theory. Among the students he influenced deeply were Carla Bley, David Baker, Don Ellis and Jan Garbarek. Cameron Brown, the great bassist in my current New York based quintet which is called the Rob Scheps Core-tet, was also an early student of George’s in Scandinavia. I toured with Russell’s Living Time Orchestra in 1988 and for a few years. A tour of New England–12 cities; shows in Philadelphia at New Music America, and at the Smithsonian and Wolf Trap in Washington, DC. I was the tenor sax soloist, and George used me and guitarist Dave Fiuczynski extensively. The band was great–Stanton Davis, Tiger Okoshi, Ken Cervenka, Mike Piepman, Keith Copeland, Steve Johns, Bill Urmson, Brad Hatfield, Chip Kaner, Bill Lowe, Dave Mann, Dave Finucane, and Jim Odgren were some of the cats in the group. We played older (but still very fresh ) pieces like All About Rosie, Cubano Be, Cubano Bop; things from the 70’s like Electronic Sonata; and his new pieces at the time, Uncommon Ground, and George’ s magnum opus, The African Game. My personal favorite.That piece is required listening for anyone who digs music. Period. George was frustrated–he had high expectations and the students didn’t always meet them. BUT, with us and with his European band, I think he hit the heights he wanted to hit many times. I’m not on any of George’s records, and I wish I were. He used to say “yeah–Rob Scheps–you got that FIRE.” He dug my playing and encouraged me a lot. He also used to share these lozenges that he always had. They’re called “Fisherman’s Friend”. He’d say, “I always have a fisherman’s friend for YOU, Rob.” His music changed the way I play, but more, the way I compose. My piece for 5 brass & rhythm section, The Arms of Crisis, was composed using his methods, as were some other tunes. He opened the doors to new possibilities for all of us. I loved him. Cadence: Have you always been able to make a living as a working musician? Scheps: Yes. Cadence: What is it that separates your talent from the dozens upon dozens of saxophonists that are in New York City? Scheps: I can’t speak to what separates me from others. I can just say that I’ve always been a musical omnivore; maybe I have a broad stylistic range because I enjoy different styles of music and hear the value in them, from Mozart to Booker Little, from the Residents to Prince. Cadence: Let’s delve into the various bands that you have led and currently lead and the history or conception behind each. Scheps: Past bands–I led a trio in junior high school–we played Horace Silver, Vince Guaraldi & Chick Corea’s music. Sax, piano and drums, just like the old trios for strip clubs. In Boston I led a sextet with Joel Weiskopf, Ian Froman and others, with a front line of trumpet, tenor and trombone–we won a Down Beat recording award for our version of Baba by Kenny Wheeler.