Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs
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Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Chairperson Mrs. Sarah Guillemard Constituency of Fort Richmond Vol. LXXI No. 4 - 11 a.m., Monday, August 27, 2018 ISSN 1708-668X MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen, Hon. St. Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC 113 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS Monday, August 27, 2018 TIME – 11 a.m. Madam Chairperson: Mr. Martin has been nominated. LOCATION – Winnipeg, Manitoba Are there any other nominations? CHAIRPERSON – Mrs. Sarah Guillemard (Fort Richmond) Hearing no other nominations, Mr. Martin is elected Vice-Chairperson. VICE-CHAIRPERSON – Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris) This meeting has been called to consider the ATTENDANCE – 10 QUORUM – 6 hiring process for a new Ombudsman. For your reference, a copy of the applicable legislation for this Members of the Committee present: position has been provided for members of the Hon. Messrs. Fielding, Gerrard committee, and I would like to note the following: Hon. Mrs. Mayer Section 2 of The Ombudsman Act specifies that, in the case of a vacancy due to the resignation of the Mr. Curry, Ms. Fontaine, Mrs. Guillemard, Ombudsman, the Standing Committee on Legislative Messrs. Johnston, Lagassé, Martin, Swan Affairs will meet to consider candidates and make APPEARING: recommendations to the President of the Executive Council within six months after the vacancy date. Ms. Deanna Wilson, Director, Legislative Assembly Human Resources Services In this case, Ms. Charlene Paquin resigned on July 27, 2018, and this standing committee must MATTERS UNDER CONSIDERATION: make a recommendation for the position on or before Process for hiring a new Ombudsman for the January 27, 2019. Province of Manitoba I would also like to inform the committee that, in * * * the past, when dealing with the hiring of independent officers of the Legislative Assembly, the Standing Clerk Assistant (Ms. Monique Grenier): Good Committee on Legislative Affairs would strike up a morning. Will the Standing Committee on subcommittee to deal with all aspects of the hiring Legislative Affairs please come to order. process, including drafting the advertisement, the Our first item of business is the election of a selection of criteria–or–sorry–the selection criteria, Chairperson. the screening and interviews and would report their recommendations for the position to the main Are there any nominations for this position? committee. Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Ms. Guillemard. This involves the subcommittee meeting several Clerk Assistant: Okay. Mrs. Guillemard has been times and, once completed with their deliberations, nominated. reports their results to the main committee where it will make the final recommendation to the President Are there any other nominations? of the Executive Council. Hearing none–no other nominations, Mrs. As well, the committee Clerk and a Guillemard, will you please take the Chair. representative from the Legislative Assembly Human Madam Chairperson: Our next item of business is Resource Services office are in attendance at all the election of a Vice-Chairperson. subcommittee meetings, including conducting the screening of applications and attending interviews of Are there any nominations? prospective Legislative Assembly independent Mr. Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Mr. Martin. officers. 114 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2018 How long does the committee wish to sit this Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Well, I think one thing morning? we just–we should discuss is what process we think that the subcommittee should follow. Mr. Martin: Until the business of the committee is resolved. And I know we've had a past practice, although not always used, to have the subcommittee work Madam Chairperson: Is this agreed by the with, I think, what we've called a blue-ribbon panel, committee? [Agreed] where we get someone from perhaps the Civil How does the committee wish to proceed with Service Commission–we've used retired people that the matter before us? have worked in the civil service to assist with that–to be the ones to give recommendations on what the Hon. Colleen Mayer (Minister of Crown advertisement should look like, because we're going Services): I would suggest we–if there's any to want to make sure that the advertisement attracts discussions, we have those discussions and proceed the best and the brightest people for the position. from there. And then that committee takes on–or that panel, Madam Chairperson: Is that agreed by the if we can call it that, takes on a lot of the committee? [Agreed] responsibility for receiving the applications, sorting them according to criteria, making some Do we want to move a motion on how to recommendations to the subcommittee as to how proceed with this particular hiring process? many people should be interviewed and then give Mrs. Mayer: I have a motion. Thank you. their recommendations, based on that, to the subcommittee for discussion. I–pardon me–I move, So I guess right now I'd just–I'd like to see, is THAT a subcommittee of the Standing Committee that a process that members are agreeable to on Legislative Affairs be struck to manage the following for what I think we all agree is an process of hiring a new Ombudsman for the Province important position? of Manitoba under the terms and conditions as follows: Mrs. Mayer: Thank you for that suggestion. (a) the subcommittee consists of four I have some questions in regards to how long government members, two official opposition you think that process–when we start looking at members and one second opposition party bringing in these other–how long does that process member; take? You know, the significance of this position and the fact that we need someone to step into this role– (b) the subcommittee have the authority to call how–what does that process look like? their own meetings, the ability to meet in camera and to be able to undertake duties it deems Secondly, who would make that decision? How necessary in order to fill its responsibilities in does that–these expert people–that's also taking a lot the hiring process; of time and that as well. You know, would we find consensus on who the best–are deemed the best (c) the subcommittee must report back to the people. Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs with So those are my concerns, going that route. I a recommendation that has been agreed to by all think that it's–I think that we are capable. Like, we members; and have, in other avenues, gone down the road of the LA Committee or the–creating or picking the (d) that the Committees Branch staff as well as subcommittee members, and that's why I would stick the Legislative Assembly Human Resource with that suggestion. Services staff be authorized to attend all meetings of the subcommittee. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, it would seem to me that the subcommittee would need some Motion presented. latitude in terms of defining the process that it Madam Chairperson: The motion is in order. undertakes. But it certainly would be smart to have some recommendations or some thoughts on the The floor is open for questions. table that would be shared with the subcommittee. August 27, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 115 The other thing that I wonder about and I would just want to point that out as helpful information for bring up is done, usefully, from time to time, is what this discussion. about an exit interview for the current Ombudsman? In addition to that, if there are any questions for In–because, you know, there may be some the HR, we–this committee can agree to have our HR significant ideas that could come forward, in terms representative, Deanna Wilson, come join us at the of–about the position and suggestions that she might table if that is helpful for this discussion. have in terms of proceeding forward. Mr. Swan: I think it would be helpful to have Ms. Mr. Swan: I mean I know we do have folks that Wilson join us for the conversation.