University of California Berkeley of California Regional Oral History Office University California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, Norma Teagarden GRAND LADY OF PIANO JAZZ With Introductions by Cyra McFadden and Marilyn Unsworth Interviews Conducted by Caroline Crawford 1992-1994 Copyright 1994 by The Regents of the University of California Since 1954 the Regional Oral History Office has been interviewing leading participants in or well -placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the Nation. Oral history is a modern research technique involving an interviewee and an informed interviewer in spontaneous conversation. The taped record is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The resulting manuscript is typed in final form, indexed, bound with photographs and illustrative materials, and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ************************************ All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and Norma Teagarden dated March 28, 1994. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Director of The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office, 486 Library, University of California, Berkeley 94720, and should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user. The legal agreement with Norma Teagarden requires that she be notified of the request and allowed thirty days in which to respond. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Norma Teagarden, "Grand Lady of Piano Jazz," an oral history conducted in 1992- 1994 by Caroline Crawford, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 1994. Copy no . Norma Teagarden and her band at the Washington Square Bar and Grill, 1994. Fred Anderson, clarinet, Waldo Carter, trumpet, and Brian Richardson, trombone. Don Bennett, bass extraordinaire, is missing. Photograph by Etta Clark Cataloging information TEAGARDEN, Norma (b. 1911) Musician Grand Lady of Piano Jazz. 1994, v, 119 pp. Family history and early childhood in Texas and Oklahoma; jazz in the twenties and thirties in New York City and the Southwest; living and working in Hollywood, and touring in wartime; jazz greats: Paul Whitemen, Mary Lou Williams, Marian McPartland, Earl Hines, the Jack Teagarden Band, Louis Armstrong's All Stars; women's bands; life in northern California; Dixieland festivals and styles; thoughts on volunteer service. Includes joint interview with Irene Teagarden. LaNora Teagarden. and Mary Grubbs . Introductions by Cyra McFadden, San Francisco Examiner columnist; and Marilyn Unsworth, president, Norma Teagarden Fan Club. Interviewed 1992-1994 by Caroline Crawford. The Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley. ~ ~ Z> San ^ranrisco (DjronitIt A 1 / OBITUARIES at Norma Teagarden tire family performed together ing Room, 121 Golden Gate Ave., the Monterey Jazz Festival. San Francisco 94102. was held A funeral yesterday She took the Washington Steve Kubenstrin for Norma jazz pianist Teagarden, Square job at the behest of her and whose intricate counterpoints husband, John Friedlander, who demeanor were a fix tough, gentle she said "got tired of listening to ture of San Francisco nightclubs bad piano pupils and said he'd and restaurants for more than half rather I worked at night." a century. Ms. Teagarden, 85, died In 1981, she was honored by Wednesday of heart failure in a Mayor Dianne Feinstein, whose San Francisco hospital. daughter had been a piano pupil. "You sort of have to just play Two years later, Ms. Teagarden the way you are," Ms. Teagarden was crowned Empress of Old Sac said, and she ramento's annual Dixieland Jazz did that ever Festival. since landing Throughout her career, she her first in , gig with a left an Oklahoma played strong, striding hand and a softer right hand. "All City nightclub my life I've used my left hand dif at the age of 14. ferently than they do now," she Since 1975, said in 1989. "Some people nowa she had been days are like lightning with their playing regu Norma right hand. But I like a whole spec at the larly Teagarden trum of things that you learn after Washington being in the business for .some Square Bar and Grill, where scores time." of devoted listeners sat up close so The best part of working at as not to miss a note. Washington Square, she once said, "She carried on that great is that the Boss "is real nice, never said Chronicle swing tradition," tells you what to play, and you just reviewer Jesse Hamlin. "She jazz take your intermissions when you and was a real spirited, lively lady think you should." she played spirited, lively piano." She is survived by her husband A native of Vernon, Tex., Ms. John Friedlander of San Francis was the last Teagarden surviving co; three nephews, Joe Teagarden member of the Teagarden family of Atlanta, Ga., Jim Teagarden of of musicians that included her Boulder City, Nev., and Gilbert brother the celebrated trom Jack, Teagarden of McQueenny, Tex., brothers a bonist, and Charlie, and two sisters-in-law, Lenore and and a drummer. trumpeter, Cub, Irene Teagarden of Woodland, Cal Their mother, pianist Helen Tea- ifornia. garden, gave Ms. Teagarden her The family requests that dona first instruction. tions be made to St. Anthony Din "Mother would buy an instruc tion book, go to a pawn shop and locate the instrument for it, and we would learn to play," recalled Ms. Teagarden. After high school, she toured New Mexico with a band, playing at Lions Club dances and other modest gatherings because, as she said, "I couldn't stand being broke." She played with her brothers in New York and Chicago and, in 1942, joined her brother Jack's big band. She also performed with bands led by Ben Pollack and Ada Leonard. In the late 1940s, she was the leader of her own band and began teaching students. She was often joined on stage by her mother and, in 1963, the en DONORS TO THE NORMA TEAGARDEN ORAL HISTORY The Regional Oral History Office, on behalf of future researchers, would like to express its thanks to the following individuals whose encouragement and support have made possible the oral history of Norma Teagarden. Special thanks are due to Bud Johns and Ed and Mary Etta Moose for their help in raising funds. Tita Cooley Caroline and Tom Crawford Morley and Patricia Farquar Ron Fimrite Bud Johns and Fran Moreland Johns in memory of Judith Clancy Johns Cyra McFadden Maureen Sullivan TABLE OF CONTENTS --Norma Teagarden INTRODUCTION --by Cyra McFadden i INTRODUCTION --by Marilyn Unsworth ill INTERVIEW HISTORY- -by Caroline Crawford lv BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION vl I FAMILY AND CHILDHOOD IN THE SOUTHWEST 1 Life in Vernon, Texas 1 Chappell, Nebraska, and Oklahoma City 3 Grandmother Tillie Gienger 4 The Teagarden Family 7 Life and Music in Vernon 8 Helen Teagarden 11 Extended Family 14 The Teagarden Brothers 15 Louis Armstrong and Race Relations in the South 17 II JAZZ IN THE TWENTIES 20 Austin High Gang 20 Women in Jazz 21 Peck Kelley and Music in Texas 24 Working with a Territory Band in New Mexico: 1928 26 Style and Influences 28 New York and Paul Whiteman: 1933 31 Marriages and Families 33 Some Hard Times in Oklahoma City 34 Jack and Charles Teagarden: Living High in New York 36 III LOS ANGELES IN THE 1940s 38 Playing in San Pedro 38 All Together in Long Beach 41 Playing in Hollywood: 1941-1952 42 End of the Big Band Era 45 Playing with Jack Teagarden' s Band: 1943-1946 45 IV REMEMBERING THE GREATS OF JAZZ 49 The Ben Pollack Band 49 Music and Management 52 Jack Teagarden and Louis' All Stars: 1947-1951 53 Touring with the All Stars: More about Race Relations 54 The Big Bands 57 The Jack Teagarden Band 58 Playing with Women's Bands 60 V THE FIFTIES AND ONWARD 62 Touring with the Teagarden Band in the Fifties 62 On the Road at Christmastime 63 Meeting John Friedlander 64 The Hollywood Canteen 66 A Marriage Proposal 67 The Teagarden Band Tour of Asia: 1958-1959 68 A New Life in Northern California 70 A Mexican Cruise 71 VI PLAYING THE FESTIVALS 72 A 1976 Tour in Europe and Becoming Empress in Sacramento 72 Washington Square Bar & Grill: 1975 74 The Teagardens at the Monterey Jazz Festival: 1963 75 Dixieland in Monterey 77 Defining Dixieland 79 Dixieland in Europe 80 Young People and Dixieland 82 An 1986 Tour in London 84 Preparing for Festivals 85 Mothers and Music 86 Personal Illness and Helping Others 87 VII A CONVERSATION WITH THE TEAGARDEN SISTERS-IN-LAW 90 Memories of the Teagarden Family: The 1930s and 1940s 90 Life in Oklahoma City and Getting Married on the Road 91 Working in New York: 1939 95 The Move to California: 1941 96 Marriage to Charlie Teagarden 98 Remembering Mama T 99 About Discrimination in the South 100 Norma and Her Brothers 102 Road Stories 105 One Crazy Year: 1948 107 Remembering the Bob Crosby and Paul Whiteman Bands 109 Thoughts about Norma Teagarden 111 TAPE GUIDE 112 APPENDICES A.