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National Security and Defence Se´Curite´ Nationale Et De La De´Fense First Session PremieÁre session de la Thirty-eighth Parliament, 2004-05 trente-huitieÁme leÂgislature, 2004-2005 SENATE OF CANADA SE NAT DU CANADA Proceedings of the Standing DeÂlibeÂrations du Comite Senate Committee on seÂnatorial permanent de la National Security Se curite nationale and Defence et de la de fense Chair: PreÂsident : The Honourable COLIN KENNY L'honorable COLIN KENNY Monday, June 20, 2005 (in camera) Le lundi 20 juin 2005 (aÁ huis clos) Tuesday, June 21, 2005 (in camera) Le mardi 21 juin 2005 (aÁ huis clos) Wednesday, June 22, 2005 (in camera) Le mercredi 22 juin 2005 (aÁ huis clos) Issue No. 24 Fascicule no 24 Fifty-seventh, fifty-eighth and Cinquante-septieÁ me, cinquante-huitieÁ me fifty-ninth meetings on: et cinquante-neuvieÁ me re unions concernant : Canada's national security policy La politique de se curite nationale du Canada INCLUDING: Y COMPRIS : THE NINTH REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE LE NEUVIEÁ ME RAPPORT DU COMITE (Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs Ð Budget) (Sous-comite des Anciens combattants Ð budget) THE TENTH REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE LE DIXIEÁ ME RAPPORT DU COMITE (Fact-Finding in the United States) (Une mission d'e tude aux E tats-Unis) THE ELEVENTH REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE LE ONZIEÁ ME RAPPORT DU COMITE (Fact-Finding in Europe) (Une mission d'e tude en Europe) THE TWELFTH REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE LE DOUZIEÁ ME RAPPORT DU COMITE (Borderline Insecure) (AÁ la limite de l'inse curite ) THE THIRTEENTH REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE LE TREIZIEÁ ME RAPPORT DU COMITE (Fact-Finding in Kabul, Afghanistan) (Une mission d'e tude aÁ Kaboul, Afghanistan) 42538-42554-42558 THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON LE COMITÉ SÉNATORIAL PERMANENT DE LA NATIONAL SECURITY AND DEFENCE SÉCURITÉ NATIONALE ET DE LA DÉFENSE The Honourable Colin Kenny, Chair Président : L'honorable Colin Kenny The Honourable J. Michael Forrestall, Deputy Chair Vice-président : L'honorable J. Michael Forrestall and et The Honourable Senators: Les honorables sénateurs : Atkins * Kinsella Atkins * Kinsella * Austin, P.C. (or Stratton) * Austin, C.P. (ou Stratton) (or Rompkey, P.C.) Meighen (ou Rompkey, C.P.) Meighen Banks Munson Banks Munson Cordy Nolin Cordy Nolin Day Day *Ex officio members * Membres d'office (Quorum 4) (Quorum 4) Published by the Senate of Canada Publié par le Sénat du Canada Available from: Public Works and Government Services Canada Disponible auprès des: Travaux publics et Services gouvernementaux Canada ± Publishing and Depository Services, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0S5 Les Éditions et Services de dépôt, Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0S5 Also available on the Internet: http://www.parl.gc.ca Aussi disponible sur internet: http://www.parl.gc.ca 22-6-2005 Sécurité nationale et défense 24:3 MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS PROCÈS-VERBAUX OTTAWA, Monday, June 20, 2005 OTTAWA, le lundi 20 juin 2005 (58) (58) [English] [Traduction] The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Le Comité sénatorial permanent de la sécurité nationale et de Defence met this day in camera at 9:35 a.m., in room 9, Victoria la défense se réunit aujourd'hui, à huis clos, à 9 h 35, dans la Building, the Chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, presiding. pièce 9 de l'édifice Victoria, sous la présidence de l'honorable Colin Kenny (président). Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Membres du comité présents : Les honorables sénateurs Atkins, Atkins, Banks, Cordy, Day, Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen, Munson Banks, Cordy, Day, Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen, Munson et and Nolin (9). Nolin (9). In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Également présents : De la Direction de la recherche Library of Parliament: William Price and Brigadier-General parlementaire, Bibliothèque du Parlement : William Price et le (Ret'd) Jim Cox, Analysts; Major-General (Ret'd) Keith brigadier général (à la retraite) Jim Cox, analystes; le McDonald, Senior Military Advisor; Barry Denofsky, National major général (à la retraite) Keith McDonald, conseiller Security Advisor; Inspector Harold O'Connell, RCMP Liaison militaire principal; Barry Denofsky, conseiller à la sécurité Officer; Captain (N) Peter Hoes, Colonel Pierre Boucher and nationale; l'inspecteur Harold O'Connell, agent de liaison de la Colonel Tom Watt, DND Liaison Officers. GRC; le capitaine de vaisseau Peter Hoes, le colonel Pierre Boucher et le colonel Tom Watt, agents de liaison du MDN. Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate. Aussi présents : Les sténographes officiels du Sénat. Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Conformément à l'ordre de renvoi adopté par le Sénat le Wednesday, October 20, 2004, the committee continued its mercredi 20 octobre 2004, le comité poursuit son examen de la examination on the need for a national security policy for politique de sécurité nationale du Canada. (Le texte intégral de Canada. (See Issue No. 1, Monday, October 25, 2004, of the l'ordre de renvoi figure dans le fascicule no 1 des délibérations du Committee's Proceedings for the full text of the Order of comité du lundi 25 octobre 2004.) Reference.) In accordance with rule 92(2)(e), the committee considered its Conformément à l'alinéa 92(2)e), le comité examine le draft agenda. programme proposé. At 10:05 a.m., Senator Forrestall assumed the chair. À 10 h 5, le sénateur Forrestall assume la présidence. At 12:00 p.m., the committee suspended its sitting. À 12 heures, le comité suspend ses travaux. At 12:05 p.m., the committee resumed its sitting in room 7. À 12 h 5, le comité reprend ses travaux dans la pièce 7. At 12:40 p.m., Senator Kenny returned to the chair. À 12 h 40, le sénateur Kenny occupe de nouveau le fauteuil. At 12:55 p.m., the committee suspended its sitting. À 12 h 55, le comité suspend ses travaux. At 1:00 p.m., the committee resumed its sitting in room 9. À 13 heures, le comité reprend ses travaux dans la pièce 9. At 2:30 p.m., the committee suspended its sitting. À 14 h 30, le comité suspend ses travaux. At 2:40 p.m., the committee resumed its sitting. À 14 h 40, le comité reprend ses travaux. At 5:10 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair. À 17 h 10, le comité suspend ses travaux jusqu'à nouvelle convocation de la présidence. ATTEST: ATTESTÉ : OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 21, 2005 OTTAWA, le mardi 21 juin 2005 (59) (59) [English] [Traduction] The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Le Comité sénatorial permanent de la sécurité nationale et de Defence met this day in camera at 9:35 a.m., in room 2, Victoria la défense se réunit aujourd'hui, à huis clos, à 9 h 35, dans la Building, the Chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, presiding. pièce 2 de l'édifice Victoria, sous la présidence de l'honorable Colin Kenny (président). 24:4 National Security and Defence 22-6-2005 Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Membres du comité présents : Les honorables sénateurs Atkins, Atkins, Banks, Cordy, Day, Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen, Munson Banks, Cordy, Day, Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen, Munson et and Nolin (9). Nolin (9). In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Également présents : De la Direction de la recherche Library of Parliament: William Price and Brigadier-General parlementaire, Bibliothèque du Parlement : Wiliam Price et le (Ret'd) Jim Cox, Analysts; Major-General (Ret'd) Keith brigadier général (à la retraite) Jim Cox, analystes; le major McDonald, Senior Military Advisor; Barry Denofsky, National général (à la retraite) Keith McDonald, conseiller militaire Security Advisor; Inspector Harold O'Connell, RCMP Liaison principal; Barry Denofsky, conseiller à la sécurité nationale; Officer; Captain (N) Peter Hoes, Colonel Pierre Boucher and l'inspecteur Harold O'Connell, agent de liaison de la GRC; le Colonel Tom Watt, DND Liaison Officers. capitaine de vaisseau Peter Hoes, le colonel Pierre Boucher et le colonel Tom Watt, agents de liaison du MDN. Also present: The official reporters of the Senate. Aussi présents : Les sténographes officiels du Sénat. Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Conformément à l'ordre de renvoi adopté par le Sénat le Wednesday, October 20, 2004, the committee continued its mercredi 20 octobre 2004, le comité poursuit son examen de la examination on the need for a national security policy for politique de sécurité nationale du Canada. (Le texte intégral de Canada. (See Issue No. 1, Monday, October 25, 2004, of the l'ordre de renvoi figure dans le fascicule no 1 des délibérations du Committee's Proceedings for the full text of the Order of comité du lundi 25 octobre 2004.) Reference.) In accordance with rule 92(2)(e), the committee considered its Conformément à l'alinéa 92(2)e) du Règlement, le comité draft agenda. examine le programme proposé. At 11:45 p.m., the committee suspended its sitting. À 11 h 45, le comité suspend ses travaux. At 2:30 p.m., the committee resumed its sitting. À 14 h 30, le comité reprend ses travaux. At 4:50 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair. À 16 h 50, le comité suspend ses travaux jusqu'à nouvelle convocation de la présidence. ATTEST: ATTESTÉ : OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 22, 2005 OTTAWA, le mercredi 22 juin 2005 (60) (60) [English] [Traduction] The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Le Comité sénatorial permanent de la sécurité nationale et de Defence met this day in camera at 10:07 a.m., in Room 2, Victoria la défense se réunit aujourd'hui, à huis clos, à 10 h 7, dans la Building, the Chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, presiding. pièce 2 de l'édifice Victoria, sous la présidence de l'honorable Colin Kenny (président).
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