Speaker 1: Welcome to Property Insider, giving you news and insights on the Sydney property market. Your hosts are Michelle May, a professional buyers' agent and owner of an independent buyers' agency, and Marcus Roberts, a member of Property Investment Professionals of Australia and owner of leading mortgage broker firm, Brighter Finance.

Marcus: Good morning and welcome to another episode of the Sydney Property Insider podcast, your periodical podcast series that talks about all things property related in the city of Sydney. Michelle, how are you doing this fine morning?

Michelle: Good thank you. How are you?

Marcus: Doing well. This is our second attempt after we were unsuccessful with the first attempt a few seconds ago. So hopefully this one we can record all the way through, which would be lovely.

Michelle: Well, you'd think after so many episodes in nearly three years in, we'd know the ropes by now, but forgive us.

Marcus: We're certainly the lowest paid amateurs of this.

Michelle: *laughs* That's right. So today we are going to get cracking with another suburb spotlight, and this case is going to be Campbelltown.

Marcus: That's right. So we are going further afield with our suburb spotlight series this year. We've had quite a lot of feedback from people saying that they loved the series and they want some suburbs outside the inner ring of what we've looked at in the past. So we're going to try and focus on different suburbs, some inside that ring, some outside that ring and, really, across the city of Sydney. So today we're going off to Campbelltown.

And certainly a lot of learning for myself. My wife has worked in Campbelltown Hospital before, we've visited Campbelltown in the past, but I've certainly never lived there and haven't gone out that way too many times. Michelle, what have you found in terms of the history of the area?

Page 1 of 8

Michelle: Well, I found this one fascinating. As you know, I lean heavily on https://home.dictionaryofsydney.org/ ​ and nd let me tell you what I've found. So the city of Campbelltown, is actually only one of 4 cities within the Sydney metropolitan area. And this was actually, prior to European settlement, inhabited by the people. Not long after the arrival of the in 1788, a small herd of 6 cattle escaped and weren't seen again by the British settlers for 7 years. They were, however, spotted by the Tharawal people, and that was actually reflected in their rock art site which is called Bull Cave, near Campbelltown.

They described the cattle to the British explorers and in 1795, so 7 years later, they found a herd of around 60 cattle grazing in an area now known as Camden. The colonial administration was keen for the herd to establish itself so they forbade any killing of the cattle, or settlement, in that area. But John Macarthur had other ideas because he wanted to establish sheep, and so he convinced the British government to overrule the administration and grant him 5,000 acres, which is 20 square kilometers, just south of the , in 1805.

And the Tharawal people initially worked with the local farmers, but a drought in 1814 led to large number of the neighbouring people moving into that area in search for food as well. And so between the British and the Gundangara people, it led to skirmishes, as it was described, which is an episode of irregular and unpremeditated fighting, especially between small or outlying parts of armies or fleets.

Marcus: Skirmishes are also what my wife and I refer to as the Uber Eats delivery wars in which we decide which of the Uber Eats options we're going to have, and settle eventually on the same Chinese one we've had for the last 3 weeks.

Michelle: Oh, gosh. Well, unfortunately this didn't end well of course, with deaths on either side in this case. So Governor Macquarie felt a permanent settlement would lead to order in the area, and so Campbelltown, which is actually his wife's maiden name, Campbell, was born in 1820. It developed rather slowly and it was actually after this period that Campbelltown's most famous incident occurred because in 1826, local farmer, Fredrick Fisher, disappeared. According to folklore, his ghost appeared sitting on a fence rail over a creek, just south of the town, and pointed to a site where his body was later found to be buried. So in memory of that incident, the Fisher Ghost Festival is still held each November in Campbelltown.

So Campbelltown's population steadily increased in the decades following. We’ve got the southern rail line which was extended in 1858 leading of course as with all other Sydney suburbs to further development. Campbelltown was actually the first country town in to have piped

Page 2 of 8

water in 1888, and then in the period between the World Wars the local power station was built as well to supply electricity, so it's actually doing quite well.

Michelle: Then during excavations for post-war development for residential property, neo-Neanderthal remains were found. Now, this was later concluded to be the remains of the direct ancestors of the current local population, and this area had been settled for at least 10,000 years prior to European settlement.

So skip forward a few years, Campbelltown was designated a satellite city to the New South Wales Planning Authority and a regional capital by south west of Sydney. And prior to this it was still really quite rural in nature. And, of course then with extensive building and population growth, we now see Campbelltown as it is today, a vibrant satellite city to one of the 4 cities within the Sydney metropolitan area.

Marcus: And it's very much a growing area. So the difference between going out to Campbelltown, in terms of the number of people and the number of dwellings out there 5 years ago versus 3 years ago versus today, it's really staggering to see the growth of the area, especially as Sydney's boundaries continue to grow. So what was once maybe a satellite city really feels much more like a suburb of Sydney, and certainly you see that with the extension of roads, with further development of transport lines out to the Campbelltown area.

Michelle: Absolutely. And that brings me to statistics. I know for those listening, they love a few numbers here and there. So let's look at houses and units, what does your money actually buy you in Campbelltown? So we looked at the median prices today as they stand, and it's quite remarkable that the difference between houses and unit medium price is actually not that much. It's the smallest that I've seen in the series so far.

So the median house price in Campbelltown today is $592,500, so just a tad under $600,000. And for units, the median is actually $450,000. Now, the land size for houses is quite large compared to the suburbs closer in. 563 square meters you get for this. And so in the last year we had just over 130 houses sold in that area. So obviously Campbelltown, like many of the outer ring suburbs, are still seeing a lot of unit development so we're seeing more competition and more opportunity to buy the units there. But looking at houses, they seem to be very good value still there.

Marcus: Just looking at these statistics that you've drawn up and that you've located, so one of the things that's amazing is the difference in cost between some of the properties in the area. So you've got, I guess the lowest purchase in 2020 was at $40,000, but that stretched all the way to just shy of $4 million, at $3.975 million in 2020 for a house in the area.

Page 3 of 8

Michelle: Well, I wouldn't count the lowest. When you're looking at those lower numbers, they are usually just estate transfers so they wouldn't be genuine sales. You can discount those. So with houses and across the board, and units, It's usually just if a husband and wife part ways, that the husband or wife transfers the property into the other person's name and so, therefore, there's a transfer of money there. So I wouldn't take those outlier sales as a proper sale. So you've got to be careful with those numbers.

Marcus: So, Michelle, that's really interesting to hear of the units and the houses. If we were to look in the area, what is the makeup of the actual types of dwellings in the area? So your houses, your units, what is the makeup of the area of Campbelltown?

Michelle: So when we look at the information that we get from the most recent Censuswhich was in 2016, or the information we get on APM Price Finder, the separate houses made up 54.3% and units made up 26%. But given it's been 4 years I would have imagined that the unit percentage would have come up and the housing percentage would have come down, so potentially just shy of 50% is now separate houses, I would imagine. So, obviously, that changes over time.

Marcus: Of course. So the makeup of the people of Campbelltown, this is another suburb where we have a slightly higher proportion of females to males. So people that were noted in the last Census, you had 12,566 people registered, 51.2% were female, 48.8% were male. The most striking thing that I've seen is the makeup of families. So you had couples, either couples with or couples without children, representing 75.6% of the suburbs so it's very much a family type suburb where many people may have lived closer to the city of Sydney and then had kids, or want to have kids, so have moved somewhere where they can get a bit more land than they could in the inner ring of Sydney, they have good access to transport and they have good access to roads into the city, and so forth.

But, really, the focus is having a bit more space and having fresh air, but also having a lower price point than some of the places that you might find in the eastern suburbs or inner west, where prices start with a $1 million price tag for a basic block of land.

Michelle: Absolutely. And that brings us to the method of travel to work. So a large proportion, 57.9%, still use the car, but then there's a good proportion that uses the train as well, so 13% use the train so it's a good combination of the two. And I imagine that since 2016, the train percentage would have gone up.

Page 4 of 8

Marcus: And that certainly makes sense when you look at the transport links that are to the area. So a car representing the lion's share, a car representing the most commonly used form of transport, makes sense because you do have the M5 out to that area, you've got good roads, you've got good Metro links out to the south west of Sydney. And train represents second most popular use of transport also makes sense because the T8 Line has a Campbelltown to Central service, which takes 57 minutes, just under an hour. But it also has a link from Campbelltown to Mascot, so that's only a 49 minute trip. So if you think about you really getting from the south west of Sydney all the way over to the east, or just to the south east of Sydney, in just under 50 minutes, all on one train line without having to change, without having to change and take suitcases with you, et cetera.

Michelle: Absolutely. What about occupation makeup? What does Campbelltown look like then?

Marcus: We've spoken about couples being the most, I guess, frequent family composition that we see. In terms of language and cultural diversity, people that say their ancestry is English, or Australian or Irish or Scottish, still represent the majority. But then you do have 2.5% being of Indian descent. Although I didn't see this necessarily in the Census statistics, I know from my wife and her friends, there's a number of Indonesian citizens or Indonesian people in the area.

Country of birth, you've got 62% of residents who were born in Australia. And then outside of Australia, England and New Zealand, you've got a makeup of people from the Philippines, from India, Sri Lanka. Religious affiliation, Catholics made up just over a quarter, or 25.2%. No religion actually in Campbelltown is less than the state or the national average. So people that are Agnostic or Atheist noted as just over 1 in 5, so 20.8%. Whereas across Australia, that number is just under 30% now. Anglican is next on the list, of 15.8% and then you've got your usual non-stated. And then the religion, Islam, being the next largest religion noted of 5.4%. Languages that are spoken in the area besides English, you've got Arabic, followed by Samoan, Mandarin, Tagalog, and then Spanish.

So really a good mix of people, which then leads us on to occupations, as you've asked. Professionals still make up, I guess, the largest percentage of 17.6%, but that is lower than the state and national average. Where we see more people in Campbelltown of a servant occupation, that is really in machinery operators and drivers, which somewhat makes sense because, again, you've got space out there, which means that you also have a lot of places that might have their warehouses in the region or the area. And just under 12% of the population are machinery operators and drivers, across state average and national average of just over 6%. Your labourers also have a higher proportion of just over 11.5%, across the state average of just under 9%. And the industry of employment, the largest makeup is hospitals, which also makes sense because you do have Campbelltown Hospital which is certainly a very large base out there, representing 5% of all residents work in a hospital setting.

Michelle:

Page 5 of 8

Wow, that's really interesting.

Marcus: Now, as you've mentioned, Michelle, Campbelltown has a large history behind it and, as such, it has a number of heritage listed sites on the official New South Wales State Heritage Register, and that includes the post office, it includes Commercial Banking Company of Sydney, the old banks that were out there. And then also you've got things like the Warby's, Barn Stables, Glenalvon House, as well as St. John's Catholic Church. So really a number of heritage listings and a number of old buildings that are certainly worth a visit, and certainly a large part of Australia's, I guess, heritage in the last 150 years.

Your transport, we've spoken about being the railway stations. You've also got the Hume Motorway that goes from Liverpool to Sydney Airports and Sydney CBD, as well as all the way down to Goulburn and Canberra. They do have bus services. So there's a company called Busabout providing services from Campbelltown Station to almost all of the areas around Campbelltown, and also off to Picton via Camden.

Your schools because, again, we're talking about an area that is very much family focused, and the largest proportion of residents in the area are of a family background. You've got the University of Western Sydney, that's out there. But then local schools, you've got just so many. You've got Campbelltown Public, Campbelltown East Public, Campbelltown North Public. You've got a number of Anglican and Catholic high schools. You've got Robert Townsend High School, St. Peter's Anglican. You've got just a laundry list of available options in the area.

Michelle: It isn't short of choice there, is there?

Marcus: The problem that you might run into that are out in the Campbelltown area, so some of your notable residents would include Tim Campbell, who was formerly from Home and Away, you've got Australian Olympic athlete Bronwyn Eagles, Jarryd Hayne of rugby league who also then went on to play American football for a while, then you've got Krisnan Inu a New Zealand rugby league footballer, Kate Ritchie the Australian actress and Gold Logie winner, and then Lisa Wilkinson as well who's the co-host on The Project on Channel 10.

Michelle: She was born there, wasn't she?

Marcus:

Page 6 of 8

I believe so. Yes. So, sports in the area, so Campbelltown is really well known for some of its sporting prowess, and some of the options that are available, and certainly to go spectate. You've got West Tigers, who were a merger in the old NRL days between Western Magpies as well as the Balmain Tigers, which then became the West Tigers, and as such they play some of their games in Campbelltown Stadium, and they play some of the games closer to where I live, which is at Leichhardt Oval. There is also Macarthur FC who have just joined the A League, and they've just joined the league this year after being given the license first as Macarthur South West Sydney, and they will play their home games in Campbelltown Stadium.

Marcus: Now Campbelltown, itself, because again this is an area which has a lot of space, this probably falls in the lowest of our walk score options. So Campbellton is noted as somewhat walkable, but only has a walk score of 58. So out of, I think it's 500 odd suburbs that are listed, Campbelltown comes in at number 280 in the most recent survey. But what that does mean is, you do have a lot of space available, which leads to dog parks. So you have a number of different dog parks in the area. You've got one that is literally called Dog Park. You've got Gregory Hills Dog Park, Minto Dog Park, you've got Centenary Park, which I believe has a dog area as well.

And then your general facilities and amenities, that are in the area. You've got 2 Coles in the area, one on Queen Street and one in Macarthur Square. You've got 3 Woolworths, being at Campbelltown Mall, Market Fair, as well as Macarthur Square. You've got the hospital, we spoke about. You've got a number of different varieties of food, cafes and restaurants of all types of cuisines. And, of course, you've got a number of pubs and also the Campbelltown RSL. If you do want a shopping center, you do have two major options. You've got Macarthur Square, which I've noted as having a Coles and Woolworths. You've also got the Campbelltown Mall in the area as well. So, really, you are spoilt for choice in the number of facilities that are within driving distance of the center of Campbelltown, as well as having that wonderful option of having more space if you were to purchase in the area.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really interesting information because I think sometimes people are focused on staying within that ring of the CBD of Sydney and having that connectivity, but if you actually look a little bit further afield, places like Campbelltown you get more affordability and actually great connection if you still do have to get into the city or other places. But it's because it stands on its own, you've got fantastic facilities, you've got fantastic school options. And also what it doesn't have is the headache that a lot of Sydney suburbs have, is because they are so old, they're trying to build around what was there previously, whereas a lot of these places can just build and grow from anew and also learn from their mistakes that the older suburbs have made. So if you are looking to explore further regions, I would certainly say that Campbelltown is not that far from Sydney. It's actually 53 kilometers from the CBD, and definitely an option you should check out.

Marcus: And again, going to the current times that we're living in and certainly we hope that listeners 5 years from now will not see this as an issue, but many people these days, certainly myself included in that,

Page 7 of 8

really work from home now and if you are in a position where you do work from home or you can work from home, what better time to live somewhere that gives you a lot more space in that home and gives you a better price point than being cramped in with tens of other thousands of people all because you're living in a suburb within 5 kilometers of CBD. If you don't necessarily need to go into the CBD every day, then this might be a really good option for you, and it comes at a very nice price point as well.

Michelle: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much Marcus for all that insight, you were the man of numbers today. It was really good to listen to all of that information. But if you have been listening to us and you think, I'd like to know more about, fill in the blank, whichever suburb, you ask and we shall deliver. Drop us a line at [email protected], and we'll make sure to cover the suburb of your choice. Thank you for listening and we look forward to joining you again sometime soon.

Speaker 1: Please note that any views or opinions presented in this podcast are solely those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent those of any business. These views and opinions are general in nature and do not take into account your personal objectives, financial situation, and needs. Please consider whether it applies in your circumstance, and seek professional advice where appropriate.

Page 8 of 8