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OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Wednesday, 5 May 2021

The Council met at Eleven o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.

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THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG-KONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.

IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN

THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, B.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI, J.P.

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THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN, J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION

THE HONOURABLE TERESA CHENG YEUK-WAH, G.B.S., S.C., J.P. SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE

THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

PROF THE HONOURABLE SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH

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THE HONOURABLE TANG-WAH, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL WONG WAI-LUN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER HUI CHING-YU, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY

MR LIU CHUN-SAN, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

MR JOSEPH CHAN HO-LIM, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY

CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:

MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL

MS DORA WAI, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL

MS MIRANDA HON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

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PRESIDENT (in ): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber)

LAYING OF PAPERS ON THE TABLE OF THE COUNCIL

The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation Legal Notice No.

Tax Reserve Certificates (Rate of Interest) (Consolidation) (Amendment) (No. 2) Notice 2021 ...... 54 of 2021

Other Papers

Gifted Education Fund Financial Statements for the year ended 31 August 2020 (including Report of the Director of Audit)

Report of the Bills Committee on Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question.

Development of heritage tourism

1. MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): In December last year, the Government abruptly halted the demolition works for the service reservoir at Bishop Hill in Sham Shui Po ("the service reservoir"), enabling this century-old structure to survive. In March this year, the Antiquities Advisory Board 5484 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 endorsed the recommended grading (i.e. Grade 1 historic building) for the service reservoir. The Government is exploring a restricted opening of the service reservoir for visit by the public upon the completion of the temporary strengthening and tidying up works for the service reservoir. Some members of the public have suggested that the Government may, by making reference to overseas examples, invite experts to discuss the options for revitalizing the service reservoir, as well as consider developing the service reservoir into a tourist attraction in Asia. Regarding the development of heritage tourism, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has drawn up a series of conservation and revitalization programmes for the service reservoir to promote heritage tourism; if so, of the details (including an implementation timetable); if not, the reasons for that;

(2) whether it will include the service reservoir as one of the tourist attractions under the " Neighbourhoods―Sham Shui Po" campaign implemented by the Hong Kong Tourism Board, consolidate the tourism resources in the Sham Shui Po District, and improve the public facilities in the District, with a view to elevating visitors' travel experience without affecting the daily lives of the residents, such as using the technology of augmented reality to introduce the surrounding environment to the visitors; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) whether it has learnt a lesson from the incident of almost mistakenly demolishing the service reservoir and stepped up its efforts on conserving and revitalizing monuments; whether it will formulate tourism promotional programmes for monuments worthy of viewing and enhance their ancillary facilities; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr YIU for his question. The question raised by Mr YIU involves conservation and revitalization of the Ex-Sham Shui Po Service Reservoir, which is under the purview of the Development Bureau ("DEVB"). Having consulted DEVB, I provide a consolidated reply as follows:

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Since 2008, DEVB has revitalized some distinctive government historic buildings through the Revitalising Historic Buildings Through Partnership Scheme, and opened such buildings for visit by the public and visitors. For example, the has been revitalized into the Tai O Heritage Hotel, and the former has been revitalized into the Jao Tsung-I Academy. Through the "Conserving Central" initiative, DEVB has also revitalized the former Police Married Quarters on into a creative hub, the PMQ, and also the Central Police Station Compound into the "―Centre for Heritage and Arts", which have become tourist attractions with historical, creative and artistic elements.

In parallel, the Tourism Commission ("TC") has all along been promoting various tourism projects in different districts, covering projects with historical and heritage themes. These include the revitalization of Dr SUN Yat-sen Historical Trail with the theme of "art across time" leading visitors to trace the history of 16 spots through walking along the Trail; the organization of the "Yim Tin Tsai Arts Festival" over three years which provides participants with a new experience that integrates arts, religion, culture, heritage and green elements through a variety of artworks in different forms; and the launch of the "City in Time" which presents the historical panoramic images of individual landmarks of Hong Kong by using augmented reality and creative multimedia technology, enabling visitors to understand the historical landscape and community culture through smartphones.

Since 2018, TC, in collaboration with the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department, has also been enhancing the tourism supporting facilities of some hiking trails within country parks by phases which are popular and with tourism potential, with a view to enhancing their appeal as heritage and green tourism attractions, including some military relics and spots of historic value, such as the Heritage Trail along Peak Trail and the Wong Nai Chung Gap Trail.

The reply to the three parts of the question by Mr YIU Si-wing is as follows:

(1) Regarding the Ex-Sham Shui Po Service Reservoir, the Government has clearly indicated that it will not be demolished. In March 2021, the Antiquities Advisory Board ("AAB") endorsed the proposed 5486 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Grade 1 historic building status of the service reservoir. AAB has conducted public consultation on the proposed grading of the service reservoir and will confirm its grading later having regard to the results. The Water Supplies Department has earlier launched a virtual tour of the service reservoir. The service reservoir was originally a confined space. Although part of the roof has been removed, necessary works including the provision of internal lighting and ventilation facilities have to be carried out. With rainy and tropical cyclone season approaching, waterproof and drainage facilities will be installed to prevent flooding. After completing the above strengthening and improvement works, and ensuring the structural safety of the service reservoir, the Government targets to allow restricted opening of the service reservoir within this year. In parallel, DEVB will look into the long-term options for conserving and revitalizing the service reservoir.

(2) In the long run, when the service reservoir can be fully opened for public visit after completion of conservation and revitalization works by DEVB, the Hong Kong Tourism Board ("HKTB") will help roll out related promotion, including through the "Hong Kong Neighbourhoods―Sham Shui Po" campaign which Mr YIU just mentioned, to further enhance visitors' experience in the area.

As regards the use of augmented reality technology, as mentioned by Mr YIU, to introduce the neighbourhood to visitors, the "City in Time" launched by TC is exactly the project that deploys related technology to bring back to life the history of individual landmarks of Hong Kong through mobile application. At present, there are six locations in Sham Shui Po featuring the "City in Time". When the Ex-Sham Shui Po Service Reservoir is developed into a tourist attraction, TC will consider featuring the place in the "City in Time".

(3) The Government fully understands public concerns regarding the Ex-Sham Shui Po Service Reservoir incident. DEVB is leading a working group to review the handling of the case by relevant departments, and to put forward improvement measures to avoid recurrence of similar incidents.

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MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, due to the impact of the pandemic, quite many people have, over the past year, started to look for local distinctive tourism resources, including scenic spots and monuments. The Government and HKTB launched earlier the "Old Town Central" and the "Hong Kong Neighbourhoods―Sham Shui Po" programmes, and later successfully turned Yim Tin Tsai into an open museum. These have become popular places for people to "check in" on social media. In view of public demands and the need for future tourism development, may I ask the Secretary whether he will work in partnership with HKTB to continue to look for and promote a new round of district programmes; if he will, what are the specific goals?

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, the simple answer is yes; and we have been doing so. Mr YIU Si-wing represents the tourism sector and he should know best. The tourism sector always wishes to look for different distinctive scenic spots in Hong Kong. About two to three years ago, we put forth the Development Blueprint for Hong Kong's Tourism Industry, in which we stressed how to add more scenic spots that are unique and attractive. In our past work, we have used history as the connection points, such as the Dr SUN Yat-sen Historical Trail which Mr YIU mentioned. We have also promoted historic buildings using the theme of cultural relics and heritage, such as the "Tai Kwun―Centre for Heritage and Arts" I just mentioned, which was formerly the Central Police Station Compound. We have promoted some from the angle of nature conservation, such as geoparks, while others were culture-oriented, such as The Wisdom Path. Some were about local lives, such as Sham Shui Po, and some used arts as a theme, such as Yim Tin Tsai which I just mentioned. Some were derived from replacing the old function with a new function through revitalization to enhance their attraction. These are all our successful examples. In the future, we will work along this direction.

Moreover, each year, we will examine districts using a "plane" approach, apart from using the "point" and "line" approaches. The Sham Shui Po District is precisely one such example, and Wan Chai as well. For instance, we had considered this approach in the Southern District in the past. However, it did not work because the "points" in Southern District at that time were too scattered. But with the revitalization of Ocean Park and with the implementation of the 5488 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Invigorating Island South initiative, we can now connect the "points" and "lines" to form a "plane" in our promotion. This will also be our future direction.

MR MA FUNG-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, at present, only some of the heritage spots which have received grading are revitalized, while the rest have been fenced off or enclosed by barbed wire, and some have even become desolate. It is a pity indeed. Some of the work of heritage conservation may involve different departments. For instance, the historic building discovered this time around was not discovered by a department related to monuments. Here is my supplementary question. Has the Government considered setting up an interdepartmental system to take charge of resource deployment under different government departments, such as the District Council, Home Affairs Department, and HKTB, for collective communication and to take forward the finding, conservation, publicity and promotion of heritage spots?

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, perhaps let me answer the question first, and will the Under Secretary for Development please supplement if necessary. First, what Mr MA just mentioned, and also what Mr YIU just mentioned, are precisely what we have been doing. Certainly, a historic relic or monument may not necessarily become a tourist spot just by being a historic relic or monument. Hong Kong does have many historic relics. However, if we cannot make their uniqueness stand out, or if we cannot revitalize them for public visit or use, these relics will only become a place for people to "check in" on social media.

So, simply speaking, the work in this regard, as can be seen in our past examples, is two-pronged. These examples are often the result of revitalization through DEVB's Revitalising Historic Buildings Through Partnership Scheme or revitalization with resources input after the historic buildings are graded by the Antiquities and Monuments Office.

I know that the Partnership Scheme can provide resources for building renovation or facility restoration, and then it may introduce other participants to take up the operation of the historic buildings. For example, an enterprise has taken up the operation of the Tai O Heritage Hotel which was formerly the Tai O Police Station. Of course, these operating enterprises will introduce certain commercial elements into the operation of the historic buildings to make better LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5489 use of them. If heritage spots are of unique features, as I just said, DEVB is willing to join them together for collective promotion, though the Bureau may accord different levels of importance to them. Hence, in the examples I just listed, many of them are successful examples that can achieve heritage conservation and revitalization for better usage, as well as becoming a tourist spot.

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, we often look for treasures from afar, rather than nearby. I may also be so. I went to the service reservoir at Bishop Hill in person. The area is large and has several levels. Many people gathered there, forming a popular spot for visiting … but it is of a relatively small scale. I believe interdepartmental efforts have to be made, in order to deal with the place. I wish to ask the Secretary this question. Since the discovery of the service reservoir at Bishop Hill, has the responsible department seriously and comprehensively looked into whether only distant monuments are discovered without knowing that many monuments are close to us? Has the Secretary drawn reference from examples in Japan? They did not turn a reservoir into a tourist attraction after conservation was done; but rather, they turned it into an area for making movies, such that the place appeared in many movie scenes and it gradually became a popular "check-in" spot for tourist worldwide and local people. The reservoir may even become a major tourist spot in Southeast Asia.

UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr Priscilla LEUNG …

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): I cannot hear what he said.

UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): … regarding heritage conservation, we …

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): Can the Under Secretary speak towards the microphone? President, his voice is very low.

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UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): … can you hear me now? Good. Actually, regarding heritage conservation, we take into consideration the actual situation of the historic or heritage buildings and locations, and protect, preserve and revitalize them in an appropriate and sustainable manner for the benefit and enjoyment of this and the next generations. In implementing this policy, we pay full attention to the needs of development, which is a matter of public interests, respect for private property ownership, financial consideration, cross-sectoral collaboration and active participation by stakeholders and the public. Regarding revitalization of historic buildings, we strive to preserve government historic buildings with innovative means, so as to give them a better use, and turn them into unique cultural landmarks; we encourage the public to actively participate in the conservation of historic buildings; and we create job opportunities particularly at district level. Monument conservation policies and revitalization of historic buildings are very complicated issues. At present, regarding revitalizing historic buildings, DEVB mainly focuses its efforts on government buildings. As for connecting these buildings with other related scenic spots to make them a large tourist attraction, actually, this has never been our prime goal for revitalizing historic buildings.

MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): President, Bishop Hill is situated at the heart of Sham Shui Po. Many new businesses have now emerged near Bishop Hill, including new coffee shops, leather shops and handcrafts shops. In fact, the area has great potential for collective promotion. Here is my question for the Secretary. The Government is going to hand out $5,000-worth of electronic consumption vouchers. Will the Government formulate a series of policies to boost the local economy at district level, so as to encourage district spending? This is the first point; and second, the Secretary says in his main reply that after strengthening works is done, the Government anticipates the restricted opening of the service reservoir at Bishop Hill. This picture shows the present condition of the place. I just made a visit to the State Theatre. From the perspective of retaining the original state of a place, it is a good effort. However, if we look at this picture, we find many reinforcement structures there. How will the Government strike a balance in the future? Will these reinforcement structures remain there, or will they be dealt with in some other ways?

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SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I will answer the first part of the supplementary question, and regarding the strengthening works of the heritage concerned, I will leave it to the Under Secretary for Development to answer.

First, regarding Mr CHENG's question, we also notice that there are many attractive places in different districts for leisure visit. Take Sham Shui Po as an example. As early as two years ago, we launched a programme called "Sham Shui Po―Every Bit Local". The programme used the local way of life and culture in Sham Shui Po and the alleys and places which had existed since the 1950s and 1960s as the theme for promotion. Like what Mr CHENG just said, many shops along the streets of Sham Shui Po have changed in use over the past few years. Many young people are attracted to the district. The shops there range from those traditionally selling garment materials to those with interesting elements, which is the reason that we chose Sham Shui Po as the district for promoting local tourism two years ago.

I also mentioned this in the past in this Council, and that is, in our worldwide promotion of Hong Kong for tourism, tourists are often very interested in going to places that local people love to go. That is why tourism will benefit the local community, and naturally it will also benefit local economy. In this connection, our promotion of Sham Shui Po has generated attention worldwide. I remember a few international travel magazines have listed Sham Shui Po as the top three most attractive places for visit around the world. It is thus evident that the district has attained international recognition.

We have recently allowed local tours to resume in Hong Kong. After the social unrest a few years ago, we have launched subsidy schemes to transform, on a pilot basis, these places into attractions for local tours. These tours are often combined with guided visits, so that apart from sightseeing, participants will also know the story behind. These places have thus become new attractions to the public. So, apart from the local culture, which Mr CHENG just mentioned, the changes and new discoveries in the community are good materials for tourism promotion. Regarding conservation of the service reservoir, I will leave it to the Under Secretary for Development to respond.

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UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, the roof strengthening works of the service reservoir that we see now are necessary. The Water Supplies Department did not have any particular reason for conducting the works initially at the site. It was just because the service reservoir might have safety hazard due to a long period of disuse and a lack of structural maintenance. The Department thus conducted the works. The service reservoir is an underground confined space. Although part of the roof has been demolished, we still need to add internal lighting and ventilation facilities before we can allow people to go into the space for visit. Especially considering that we are now in the typhoon season, we will also need to install waterproof and drainage facilities.

Regarding the long-term conservation and revitalization options of the service reservoir, I believe we will have to wait until the works is completed. Subject to the final revitalization proposal and the future use of the service reservoir, we will then consider how to enhance the structure of the reservoir for safe visit by the public.

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): President, the service reservoir at Bishop Hill, Sham Shui Po was almost demolished. The incident has aroused great public concern. But this may turn out to be something good because members of the public have thus become more conscious about conservation. Just now, many Members said that the incident may have a positive impact on local economy or tourism, in addition to conservation. However, such enthusiasm will often wane rapidly. My concern is about the timetable. It was just mentioned that DEVB would take charge of the conservation proposal. However, if we refer to the conservation of the Lung Tsun Stone Bridge, it has taken more than 10 years to for the proposal to be submitted to the Legislative Council for funding approval. May I ask DEVB whether it has any specific timetable for the conservation proposal of the service reservoir? When will it be able to formulate a long-term conservation proposal that can cater for the development of both the economy and tourism?

UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, we hope that after completing the strengthening works of the service reservoir and some initial work, we can allow restricted opening of the service reservoir for public visit in the form of group visits, so that the public can come and see this valuable place.

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Regarding how long we need to formulate the conservation and revitalization proposal, we are considering it at the moment. As Mr TSE said, in our consideration, we hope that the proposal can achieve the sustainable development of the historic building. Moreover, apart from considering what the Government thinks, we also want to make use of public creativity to come up with some better options before we actually conduct the revitalization. Such revitalization often involves seeking funding, which is subject to the approval of the Legislative Council. Given the various reasons above, we cannot lay down a specific timetable for the time being.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Second question.

Safety of food imported from Japan

2. MR WONG KWOK-KIN (in Cantonese): The Japanese Government announced last month that it would start discharging diluted nuclear wastewater from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant into the sea in two years from now. The governments of its neighbouring countries have raised objection one after another, denouncing such a move to be detrimental to the agriculture and fisheries industry and hazardous to human health. Some environmental groups have pointed out that the radioactive substances in the nuclear wastewater such as tritium, strontium, cesium and carbon-14 will seriously affect the marine ecosystem and make their way into the human body through the food chain. Regarding safety of food imported from Japan, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it will take follow-up actions in response to the decision of the Japanese Government, including gaining an understanding from it of the details of the arrangements for the discharge of nuclear wastewater, and requesting it to provide samples of the nuclear wastewater for testing of radiation levels, so as to grasp the information needed for formulating corresponding plans; if so, of the details;

(2) whether it will, upon the commencement of the discharge of nuclear wastewater into the sea, immediately and comprehensively enhance the testing of radiation levels of the agricultural and fisheries products imported from Japan; and

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(3) given that the import of fruits, vegetables, milk, milk beverages and milk powder produced in Fukushima into Hong Kong is currently prohibited, whether the Government will consider, in light of the latest situation, imposing a blanket import ban on all food items produced in Fukushima and its neighbouring areas when necessary, in order to safeguard public health?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, my reply to the question raised by Mr WONG Kwok-kin is set out below:

The Japanese Government announced earlier the decision to discharge the wastewater generated in the cooling process of the reactors at the Fukushima nuclear power station into the ocean in about two years' time (i.e. 2023). The plan has aroused international and public concern. According to the announcement, the nuclear wastewater will be purified and diluted to meet relevant international standards before being discharged.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company will formulate a detailed plan for discharging the wastewater into the ocean. Implementation of the plan, which must be in line with international practices and standards, has to be approved by the Japanese Government first. Besides, the Japanese authorities have indicated that they will closely monitor the impact of the discharge on the environment and the ocean, and will keep the international community and the public notified of necessary information in a transparent manner.

Since the wastewater contains various radionuclides, we understand that many organizations, fishery operators and members of the public are concerned that the discharge of wastewater from the Fukushima nuclear power station into the ocean would have serious impact on marine ecosystem, the food chain and food safety. The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") Government has expressed grave concern about the impact of the discharge plan on food safety, and has strongly requested the Japanese authorities to provide data from various aspects and information on control and surveillance, including the method and actual location of the wastewater discharge, the list and the concentration of the radionuclides in the wastewater, the frequency and volume of discharge, as well as the monitoring programme on the wastewater treatment and the surrounding environment. The Food and Health Bureau ("FHB") and the Centre for Food Safety ("CFS") have made it clear to the Japanese authorities that they shall provide all relevant information, formulate and promulgate a highly transparent and robust surveillance programme including the measures and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5495 locations of monitoring at source, the radionuclides and types of food under surveillance, ways for release of surveillance results and contingency mechanisms, etc., and should not discharge the nuclear wastewater unilaterally without the consensus of the international community.

Currently, the import of vegetables, fruits, milk, milk beverages and dried milk from Fukushima is still prohibited in Hong Kong. Radiation certificate has to be produced for the import of game, meat, poultry, poultry eggs and aquatic products from Fukushima and its four neighbouring prefectures (i.e. Ibaraki, Tochigi, Chiba and Gunma), whereas radiation certificate and exporter certificate are required for the import of vegetables, fruits, milk, milk beverages and dried milk from the four prefectures. CFS implemented additional control and surveillance measures in 2011 for food products imported from Japan. Since then, CFS had tested a total of more than 750 000 samples of such products and none of the samples were found to have radiation levels exceeding the guideline levels of the Codex Alimentarius Commission. CFS will continue to adopt a risk-based principle in conducting radiation tests on Japanese food products under its routine Food Surveillance Programme.

Regarding the Japanese Government's plan to discharge wastewater from the Fukushima nuclear power station into the ocean, the HKSAR Government has requested the Japanese authorities to provide data from various aspects and information on control and surveillance. We will carefully examine the information provided by the Japanese authorities and the assessments made by international expert organizations, etc., and conduct risk assessments with the relevant government departments as appropriate to determine whether monitoring work on Japanese food should be adjusted accordingly and whether additional measures are required to ensure food safety and safeguard public health. Of course, depending on the circumstances, we will not rule out increasing the tests on Japanese food imports and tightening import control on food products (including fishery and agricultural products) from Fukushima and its neighbouring areas.

It is only through disclosure of all relevant information comprehensively, including the rationale for discharging the wastewater into the ocean, the associated health and ecological risks, intervention measures available, and whether there is a highly transparent surveillance mechanism to ensure effective operation of such measures as well as effective safeguarding of the ecosystem and food safety, that public's doubts and worries arising from the discharge of the wastewater can be eliminated. Otherwise, the confidence of the public in imported Japanese food would be undermined. Hence, the Japanese authorities 5496 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 shall disseminate all information relating to the nuclear wastewater discharge plan of the Fukushima nuclear power station to the international community and the public in a highly transparent manner. It was understood that the International Atomic Energy Agency ("IAEA") has proposed to set up a technical working group to follow up and monitor Japan's discharge of the nuclear wastewater. The China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs remarked that IAEA has confirmed it would invite experts from China to join the proposed technical working group. We will keep a close watch on the assessments made by relevant international organizations on the discharge plan. FHB and CFS have relayed to the Japanese authorities that they should not discharge the wastewater from the Fukushima nuclear power station into the ocean unilaterally without the consensus of the international community so as to avoid bringing about irreversible impacts on the environment.

MR WONG KWOK-KIN (in Cantonese): President, in regard to the discharge of nuclear wastewater by Japan, besides showing utmost concern about the marine ecosystem, the public are also very concerned about the food safety of these fishery and agricultural products. According to certain media reports, some importers were suspected to have evaded the regulation of the law by selling juice expressed from the fruits coming from Fukushima and its neighbouring areas, and some importers only marked on the food labels that the products came from Japan, without clearly stating the origin of the products. May I ask the authorities whether any investigation has been conducted and any measure adopted in response to these media reports?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, our CFS is extremely concerned about the issues just mentioned by Mr WONG. In fact, in the course of food processing, the radionuclides attached to the food surface will usually be removed, and the concentration of the substances will be diluted with the addition of other ingredients. Besides, food processing plants are required to meet stringent operation standards and subject to rigorous control and surveillance. Therefore, a food safety standard higher than the standard laid down by the Codex Alimentarius Commission has been adopted in the monitoring system on Japanese food for testing food products.

CFS has been putting processed food imported from Japan under strict surveillance in order to ensure that the radiation levels of the food products will not exceed the guideline levels laid down by the Codex Alimentarius Commission. Let us take the example of the imported fruit juice or dried LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5497 aquatic products containing food materials from Fukushima. During the year 2018-2019, CFS tested a total of 14 juice and 9 dried aquatic product samples concerned and all the samples have passed the tests.

MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): President, earlier on, the Secretary said that the import of fruits and vegetables from Fukushima is basically prohibited in Hong Kong. However, as just mentioned by a Member, actually the juice produced from the fruits and vegetables imported from Fukushima can easily be bought in Hong Kong. President, I have a can of juice here whose label tells that it is produced in Fukushima, and the label of another can of vegetable juice says that it is produced in Tochigi, while the label of this can only tell that it is a kind of juice produced in Japan. If the public want to know the impact of consuming these products on their health, it seems that at present, they can only rely on a magnifying glass for checking the food labels. Just like this kind of beverage, there is no mentioning of whether it is produced in Fukushima or Tochigi at all. Will this have any impact on the health of the public? Will there be a loophole if these food products, which might be radiation-contaminated, can be imported into Hong Kong through this way? The Secretary just said that within a period of time, they had only tested 18 samples. Is that sufficient or not?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHAN Hak-kan for his supplementary question. CFS has been running a routine surveillance programme on any imported food products, and will step up sampling and testing on certain especially high-risk food products.

In regard to the prepackaged food products mentioned by Mr CHAN, according to Chapter 132W of the Laws of Hong Kong, a food product must have a legible food label. For a legible food label, it means that the font size shall not be too small so that it can be easily read by the public. Besides, the label must contain the relevant information, including the full name and address of manufacturer or packer, the information on the country of origin of the food product and the name and address of distributor, so that consumers can judge by themselves with the available information.

Even though I said earlier that no abnormality was detected in the samples tested by CFS, we will address public concern by stepping up surveillance and sample testing. CFS will be the gatekeeper to ensure food safety of any food 5498 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 products for the protection of the public. Once any problem is detected―although there is not any for the moment―we will order that the food product concerned must be taken off the shelves and will handle the case immediately.

MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, Hong Kong is the top importer of Japanese food in the whole world. Although Hong Kong is only a city with a population of more than 7 million people, compared with countries like China and the United States, Hong Kong surpasses them in the import of Japanese food.

After the incident happened in Fukushima in 2011, I was invited to the cities in Kyushu six months later to inspect the food testing mechanism. In June 2019, I went to Fukushima again to inspect the food testing mechanism there. In 2011, I found that their facilities were really very simple and they were in lack of certain knowledge, and thus we had to teach them how to do. When I went to Fukushima again in 2019, I observed that their facilities were a lot more advanced. However, President, as I often mentioned in the past and also said during a meeting in Japan with Shinzo ABE, the then Prime Minister of Japan, in terms of the consumption of Japanese food products, the safest place in the globe is Hong Kong instead of Japan, and this is attributed to our highly comprehensive food surveillance work. In this regard, I have to thank CFS for its incessant services since 2011.

Secretary, I think we have to fend for ourselves in this aspect. The Secretary may tell us in a written reply later how much money has been used by the Hong Kong Government in testing food products from Japan. In order to safeguard the safety of Hong Kong people in consuming food products from Japan, the departments under FHB have been doing a great job. The Secretary also says that their work will not cease and will continue in whatever circumstances. They have also imposed restrictions on the import of food products from four more prefectures in Japan.

Earlier on, Mr CHAN Hak-kan asked whether the testing of merely 18 samples from the food products concerned was sufficient. In this regard and especially in the coming two years, if unfortunately the Japanese Government continues to discharge nuclear wastewater into the ocean, no matter how the wastewater is diluted, will CFS consider enhancing its sample testing efforts so that the public can consume Japanese food without any worries?

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SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHEUNG for his question. At present under the routine Food Surveillance Programme of CFS, an average of over 65 000 samples taken at the import, distribution and retail levels will be tested per year. Of course, we are particularly concerned about Japan, and hence our tests on the radiation levels of its food products will keep going.

CFS will conduct sample tests on various categories of food products imported from different prefectures, no matter Fukushima or other prefectures in Japan. Of course, apart from conducting sample tests on food products, we also require the provision of certain certificates, for example, radiation certificate and exporter certificate, for the import of certain food products into Hong Kong, so as to confirm that the food safety level is meeting our standard.

I reiterate that additional control and surveillance measures have been implemented since 2011 and about 750 000 samples of imported Japanese food have been tested, and none of them were found to have radiation levels exceeding the guideline levels of the Codex Alimentarius Commission. Of course, we will continue to adopt a risk-based principle and will review from time to time Hong Kong's surveillance on imported Japanese food in order to meet the needs of the times.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Tommy CHEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?

MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): The Secretary has not answered whether our surveillance will be enhanced in response to the discharge of nuclear wastewater by Japan into the ocean in two years from now.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, it will depend on the progress of the nuclear wastewater discharge plan of Japan and the relevant data provided by Japan, because Japan says that it will only discharge the nuclear wastewater in two years' time. Admittedly, we will not rule out enhancing surveillance on imported Japanese food and the tightening of import control on food products, including fishery and agricultural products, coming from Fukushima and its neighbouring districts.

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MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, HUA Chunying, spokesperson of the China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, queried the Japanese Government about whether the discharge of nuclear wastewater into the ocean was meant to raise Godzilla. In fact, this is no joking matter. Because according to an article from Greenpeace, the nuclear wastewater from Japan is not ordinary cooling water, but nuclear wastewater which has passed through the cores of nuclear reactors in which strontium-90 will induce double strand breaks in DNA and the half-life of carbon-14 is over 1 000 years. But the progress made by the Japanese Government in dealing with nuclear wastewater is very slow.

President, if the SAR Government sticks to its passive approach of introducing some corresponding measures only after Japan has discharged the nuclear wastewater, I believe it will be too late. Irreparable damage will be done to the ecology of the whole world, these radionuclides will also make their way into our bodies through the food chain. Hong Kong is a major customer of Japanese aquatic products, absorbing 20% of Japan's exports in this regard. Before Japan's discharge of nuclear wastewater, do we have any action to explicitly express our stance of opposition?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, as I said earlier, Japan's plan to discharge nuclear wastewater from the Fukushima nuclear power station has not only aroused international concern, but also triggered worries among many local organizations, fishery operators and Hong Kong citizens, because the discharge of nuclear wastewater from the Fukushima nuclear power station into the ocean by the Japanese Government will have a severe impact on the marine ecosystem, food chain and even the health of human beings.

We learn that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has already expressed its stance and has strongly urged Japan to properly handle the incident of discharging nuclear wastewater from the Fukushima nuclear power station. This move has our full support. Since issues like marine pollution are international issues and involve diplomatic affairs, the SAR Government has already reflected the worries of the sectors in Hong Kong to the Office of the Commissioner of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Third question.

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Making good use of the assets of the Exchange Fund

3. MR CHUNG KWOK-PAN (in Cantonese): As at 31 December last year, the total value of the assets of the Exchange Fund ("EF") stood at $4,500.7 billion and the accumulated surplus reached $852.4 billion. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has forecasted the level at which the total value of the EF assets needs to be kept in each of the coming five years for it to be sufficient for maintaining Hong Kong's monetary and financial stability;

(2) as it is expected that fiscal deficits will be recorded in the coming few years, whether the Government will review the method for calculating the return that can be obtained from the fiscal reserves placed with EF and the mechanism for transferring funds from EF to the General Revenue Account, with a view to improving the Government's financial position; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) as the Coronavirus Disease 2019 epidemic has dealt a heavy blow to Hong Kong's economy and people's livelihood, whether the Government will consider deploying the accumulated surplus of EF for implementing measures to relieve people's hardship, facilitate employment and stimulate the economy?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, upon consultation with the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, the Government's reply to the various parts of the question raised by Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan is as follows:

(1) and (3)

The major uses of the Exchange Fund ("EF") are stipulated in both the Basic Law and the Exchange Fund Ordinance ("the Ordinance"). According to Article 113 of the Basic Law, EF is primarily used for regulating the exchange value of the Hong Kong dollar. It is also stipulated in the Ordinance that EF is used primarily for the purpose 5502 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

of affecting either directly or indirectly the exchange value of the Hong Kong dollar. It also has a secondary purpose of maintaining the stability of Hong Kong's monetary and financial systems with a view to maintaining Hong Kong as an international financial centre.

As at the end of March 2021, the total assets of EF stood at about HK$4,500 billion. The accumulated surplus of EF, however, only amounted to about HK$830 billion after taking into account its liabilities.

The global economy and the financial market are volatile and unpredictable. Being a small and open economy, Hong Kong needs to be well-prepared for tackling different kinds of potential financial risks. Therefore, we must have a considerably sizable EF with a high level of liquidity to maintain monetary and financial stability, maintain the confidence of the market and the public in EF and the financial system, and combat shocks to or attacks on the financial market effectively, thereby safeguarding the stability of the financial system. In fact, EF has served the key role in providing a buttress for safeguarding Hong Kong's monetary and financial stability in face of external shocks or unexpected blows in the past decades.

Though it is stipulated in the Ordinance that the Financial Secretary may make transfers from EF under certain conditions, the assets of EF are important in supporting our Linked Exchange Rate and stabilizing the Hong Kong dollar exchange rate. Taking it lightly to use EF to meet government expenditure will severely undermine its ability to perform its main function, which is to safeguard Hong Kong's monetary and financial stability. This will also send a wrong message to the market that the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government is no longer observing strict fiscal discipline and hence undermine people's confidence in the Linked Exchange Rate System.

The fiscal reserves of the Government are the fruits of the economic development of Hong Kong and the hard work of our people over the years. This makes the Government financially capable of meeting challenges by adopting measures to support the economy LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5503

and relieve people's burden amid the prevailing economic downturn. At the end of March 2021, the consolidated balance of the fiscal reserves stood at more than $920 billion, equivalent to about 14 months of government expenditure. In order to provide relief from the impact of the economic downturn and the pandemic to the public and various businesses, counter-cyclical measures totalling over $120 billion have been announced in this year's Budget. It is hoped that these measures could strengthen the support to the economic development and hence benefit the overall economy as much as possible.

In light of the above, EF and the fiscal reserves have different uses and serve different purposes. We consider there is no need to change the established operating mechanism of EF, any change of which might seriously affect the monetary and financial stability in Hong Kong.

(2) The Government has placed its fiscal reserves with the Investment Portfolio of EF in order to earn a return. Under the existing arrangements, the investment return of the fiscal reserves is calculated based on the average annual rate of return of the EF's Investment Portfolio for the past six years. There is also a guaranteed minimum return to ensure capital preservation and that the investment return in any year will not be lower than the average annual yield of three-year Government Bond for the previous year. The investment return of the Government's fiscal reserves is transferred to the General Revenue Account or various funds depending on the sources of funding. The existing investment arrangements enable the Government's fiscal reserves to yield a more stable return and achieve capital preservation. The Government will continue to monitor the investment situation and review the relevant arrangements as necessary.

Under the said existing arrangements, as EF pays investment return to the Government based on the average annual rate of return of its Investment Portfolio for the past six years, EF would need to make use of its accumulated surplus to pay investment return to the Government in case EF has a loss or insufficient investment income in any financial year, leading to a shrinkage of the accumulated 5504 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

surplus of EF. This has happened before in 2015 and 2018. Therefore, the decision to alter the arrangements for payment between EF and the Government should not be made lightly in order to ensure prudent risk management in respect of investments of EF.

Apart from the placements with the EF's Investment Portfolio, the Government established the Future Fund ("FF") in 2016, which is a notional savings account held within the fiscal reserves for securing higher returns through long-term investments for a period of 10 years. The annual composite rates of return of FF for the period from 2016 to 2020 were 4.5%, 9.6%, 6.1%, 8.7% and 12.3% respectively.

The investment return of FF forms an integral part of public financial resources, and has accumulated to more than $100 billion. The Financial Secretary has therefore decided to reflect the cumulative investment return of FF in the Operating Account on a progressive basis starting from 2021-2022, with $25 billion brought back in the first year.

Moreover, the Government has decided to use part of FF to set up the Hong Kong Growth Portfolio for direct investments in projects with a "Hong Kong nexus", and preparation for implementation is under way.

I am now ready to answer questions from Members.

MR CHUNG KWOK-PAN (in Cantonese): President, as we may all recall, the total assets of our EF in 1997 and 1998 when we were faced with the Asian financial turmoil were about $700 billion, which was more than sufficient for fending off major speculators. Hong Kong now possesses $4,500 billion in foreign exchange reserves, and as the amount of the reserves needed for supporting our Linked Exchange Rate is about $2,000 billion, the level of reserves is definitely more than double of what is basically required.

The Secretary replied just now that "[t]he fiscal reserves of the Government are the fruits of the economic development of Hong Kong and the hard work of our people over the years", which is a clear indication that the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5505 fiscal reserves are the fruits of the hard work of our people. Hong Kong people are now facing economic difficulties, and it is pointed out in the main reply that the fiscal reserves should be used to "relieve people's burden". Since our people really encounter difficulties today, why can the Government not use part of our reserves to relieve their hardship? When the Secretary stated that the accumulated surplus amounted to $830 billion, why is it not possible for the Government to deploy $30 billion of that to relieve people's burden?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, I will answer Mr CHUNG's question from several aspects.

First of all, with regard to the Government's response to the economic impact of the epidemic and the difficulties faced by various trades and industries as well as the people of Hong Kong, we have actually striven to tackle the problem through some previous measures and initiatives in the Budget, and a total of over $420 billion has been allocated for this purpose, including the $300 billion for the four rounds of measures under the Anti-epidemic Fund and the relief initiatives proposed in the Budget last year, and the $120 billion for counter-cyclical measures which were proposed in this year's Budget that has just been passed. Hence, a rather huge sum of money has already been allocated in this respect, and some of the measures introduced are still underway, including the issuance of consumption vouchers, one of the initiatives proposed in the Budget this year which we will talk about later in the fifth question. The Government therefore fully understands and supports the need to relieve people's burden under the epidemic, and is implementing a number of measures to alleviate to a certain extent the hardship of the people or various trades and industries, as well as to revitalize our overall economy. This is the first point I would like to make.

Secondly, Mr CHUNG asked in the second part of his supplementary question why we could not deploy the huge resources in EF to tackle the problem, and in this connection, explanations have in fact been provided in the main reply from two perspectives. Firstly, although we do have a sizable EF, it has its own functions, including those mentioned just now in maintaining financial stability, supporting our exchange rate system, etc. On the other hand, we all know that the financial market is very sensitive, and it tends to give instant and forward-looking responses. A slightest move by the Government, such as transferring funds for some particular uses, may trigger instant responses from the 5506 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 market out of concern that there is something wrong with its financial situation or fiscal discipline.

Hong Kong does have a sound financial position at the moment and this, as commented by Mr CHUNG, is the fruit of the development in the territory and the hard work of our people. This has made the Government capable of performing its role as the agent of Hong Kong people but in the long run, we must keep sticking to the existing mechanism. As for alleviating the impact of the epidemic, vaccination is after all the only feasible way of supporting economic recovery, because saving the community or economy can be done for a short while, the long-term solution lies in development.

DR CHIANG LAI-WAN (in Cantonese): President, some figures released by the Government can easily cause misunderstanding sometimes.

First of all, the Secretary pointed out in the main reply that the current consolidated balance of the fiscal reserves stood at more than $920 billion, equivalent to about 14 months of government expenditure at most. When referring to 14 months of government expenditure here, it actually means that the whole world is in a complete standstill, the Government can receive not even a single penny of tax revenue, no profits tax revenue and all commercial and economic activities have come to a complete halt, and such a situation has lasted for 14 months. Yet, will such a scenario come about? The answer is absolutely in the negative. Even if a 10% reduction is recorded in our annual revenue, the fiscal reserves of more than $900 billion should, logically speaking, be enough for us to rise comfortably to the challenge. Even with a deficit registered in future and the fiscal deficit takes up a few percents of the Gross Domestic Product ("GDP") every year, my computation shows that the Government can still be free from financial anxiety in the next 8 to 10 years.

Therefore, as pointed out by Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, given that Hong Kong now possesses $4,500 billion in foreign exchange reserves, is it really necessary for the Government to take such a stance? Let me return to the subject of the question. Secretary, we now have an investment portfolio and if my memory serves me right, the total value of its assets stood at $200 billion in 2016, while the average annual rate of return over the past few years was about 8% or 9%. In other words, it has yielded a return of almost $10 billion-odd every year and such being the case, what will be the future use of this investment portfolio, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5507 namely the Future Fund? Will the Government consider using it on our future generations? Or does the Government intend to use it for covering government expenditure since it considers the expenditure too high and a salary raise for civil servants is necessary? Regarding the Future Fund with total assets of $200 billion, what decision has the Government exactly made and will it be used for our future generations?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, let me try to reply to the supplementary question raised by the Member from several other aspects.

With regard to FF, according to the entire arrangement and the initial idea adopted so far, the relevant account is held as a long-term investment tool for a period of 10 years from 1 January 2016 to 31 December 2025. As mentioned recently in the Budget, the Government will use part of the financial resources from FF to set up the Hong Kong Growth Portfolio, and this can address the aspirations expressed by the Member just now by laying a solid foundation for promoting the economic development of Hong Kong.

It is because as we can all see, there are now in the territory many start-up businesses and projects of higher technological content or closer relationship with the future economy of Hong Kong, but investments have not yet been made by the Government in this respect. The Financial Secretary has therefore come up with the idea of setting up the Hong Kong Growth Portfolio, with a view to identifying projects with a nexus and beneficial to the future long-term development of Hong Kong for investment by the Government. Hence, the first point I would like to make in my reply is: The Government has definitely considered the long-term needs of Hong Kong.

Secondly, no matter what assets we are managing, be they the assets of EF or the Treasury, there are inevitably certain short- and medium-term objectives that should be achieved. Regarding the issue concerning 14 months of government expenditure that the Member has mentioned just now, things actually depend on the very nature of the economy of Hong Kong, as ours is a small economy which relies very heavily on the external market. Hong Kong has nothing at all, and we can only rely on the hard work of our talents and the people all these years to keep enhancing our own value. We must therefore develop our own strengths and establish a solid foundation, so as to ensure Hong Kong's 5508 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 capability in withstanding different kinds of challenges in the financial market, as well as striving for different degrees of economic development.

Mr CHUNG looked back in history to point out just now that there was only $700 billion-odd in our fiscal reserves in the past, and queried the need to maintain such a high level of reserves today. Looking at the matter conversely, we can also come to the conclusion that the scale of the local financial market then, such as the market capitalization of listed companies, was not as huge as that of today either, and this actually involves a dynamic relationship in the financial market or the economic development. It is very difficult to draw a line and determine what we should do under what kind of circumstances. Nevertheless, specifically speaking, we will definitely review the short- and medium-term objectives of society as a whole when handling issues concerning our fiscal reserves. Citing the example of the Hong Kong Growth Portfolio mentioned just now, I hope the arrangement can address Members' concerns, and we will surely examine the long-term economic development needs of Hong Kong.

MR WONG TING-KWONG (in Cantonese): The Secretary said in the main reply that EF and the fiscal reserves had different uses and served different purposes, and the Government considered that there was no need to change the established operating mechanism of EF, as any change of which might seriously affect the monetary and financial stability in Hong Kong.

The Government does not want to use the accumulated surplus of EF for introducing measures to relieve people's burden, and neither is it willing to allow members of the public to meet their pressing needs by withdrawing part of their accrued benefits from the Mandatory Provident Fund System. It has only introduced the 100% Personal Loan Guarantee Scheme through participating banks and provided the unemployed with the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance, but in our opinion, these options obviously fail to render adequate assistance to the unemployed who are in need of help. The SAR Government should make greater commitment in this respect, such as establishing an unemployment assistance to offer support to persons who have been affected by the epidemic and become unemployed. What are the Government's views on the issue?

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SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): I do not wish to give Members the impression that the Government is a miser, because this question sought originally to ask about the assets of EF and we have therefore given a reply from the perspective of how we manage the EF assets. However, this does not mean that we have made no commitment to the development of Hong Kong, or have washed our hands of the current epidemic. As mentioned just now, massive relief measures have already been rolled out through the Anti-epidemic Fund and the Budgets delivered in these two years. This is my first point.

Secondly, during long a period in the past, the investment objectives adopted for EF have been capital preservation, then long-term growth, and part of the surplus has been transferred to the Government's account to provide certain support. More specifically, the Financial Secretary has proposed recently in the Budget that starting from 2021-2022, the cumulative investment return of FF would be reflected in the Operating Account on a progressive basis, with $25 billion brought back in the first year. Hence, in order to address the short- and medium-term economic development needs of Hong Kong, we will take into account the overall situation and provide certain financial support. We will certainly do so, and there is no question of a lack of commitment or a refusal to spend money on the part of the Government, absolutely no.

We should examine how we can maintain financial stability on the one hand, and ensure confidence in our financial market on the other, while at the same time facilitate further and long-term development of Hong Kong amid the epidemic. These are the challenges we have to face every day, and are the pressing tasks for Hong Kong. What we should do is to make further endeavours to fight the virus together, including receiving vaccination.

MR CHAN CHUN-YING (in Cantonese): President, with regard to the part of the question on the level of the total EF assets which needs to be kept, the Secretary has in fact not given us an answer in the main reply. As described by Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan just now, apart from defending the Linked Exchange Rate, the EF assets were also used in 1998 to successfully fend off major speculators in the market. However, information reveals that the total value of the assets of EF at the end of 1997 was $636.7 billion and in that same year, the Hong Kong stock market had a total market capitalization of $3,200 billion, five times of the total value of the EF assets. Although the total value of the assets of EF has already increased to $4,500 billion now, the total market capitalization of 5510 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 the Hong Kong stock market surged to $47,500 billion last year, which is 10.5 times of the value of the EF assets.

In other words, if the need to fend off major speculators in the market arises again today, the actual influence that EF can exert has in fact diminished. I would therefore like to ask if the Bureau has considered this factor for the management of the asset size of EF. For example, will resources from more government funds or subvented non-governmental organizations be encouraged to be pooled together along with EF for collective management, thereby expanding its asset size?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): As I have already pointed out in my reply to part (1) of Mr CHUNG's question, when it comes to the financial market and external confidence in our market, a dynamic relationship is actually involved and this can also be reflected in the changes in market capitalization as pointed out by Mr CHAN just now. From another perspective, the market capitalization of our stock market now is about 13 times of our GDP, and this is a far cry from the previous figures.

This is exactly the reason why we must maintain the reserves at a certain level in the long run, and ensure that certain resources are available for responding to changes in the financial market. As I have mentioned just now, changes in the financial market are instant, and they are also very anticipatory and forward-looking, involving a lot of predictions. Hence, we need to have sufficient resources, so we must adopt the investment objectives of capital preservation for long-term growth when managing the EF assets.

On the other hand, as far as the composition of EF is concerned, we have made it clear in the relevant announcement that it includes certain supporting asset portfolios as well as the Long Term Growth Portfolio, and this serves to explain from the perspective of asset management where we have put our public money. However, from the perspective of liability, government funds and deposits of statutory organizations are also included, and the arrangements suggested by Mr CHAN are in fact already in place. Furthermore, EF is used for the purpose of withstanding challenges in the financial market on the one hand, but it is also expected to achieve the objectives of capital preservation and growth. We will continue to work along this direction.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fourth question.

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Land demand for brownfield logistics operations

4. MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): President, some brownfield logistics operators affected by the land resumption for the Hung Shui Kiu/Ha Tsuen New Development Area ("the NDA") have relayed that they are unable to find sites for reprovisioning their operations. Moreover, the shortlisting of three nearby brownfield clusters earlier on by the Development Bureau as sites having potential for public housing development has further reduced the number of sites available for their choice. They opine that the Government, while meeting the demand for housing land, should at the same time attend to the logistics industry's demand for land. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the latest progress of the land resumption work for the First Phase development of the NDA, and when the affected brownfield operations are required to move out; a breakdown, by the type of operations involved, of the area of the land resumed and the number of operators;

(2) given that the Government has planned to develop multi-storey industrial buildings ("MSIBs") in the NDA for reprovisioning the affected brownfield operations, of the earliest time as projected by the Government that such brownfield operations may move into the MSIBs and, before that, the new measures in place to assist the affected brownfield operators; and

(3) as such operators have pointed out that due to the Government's failure to achieve a seamless transition in the timing for land resumption and intake of the MSIBs, some logistics operators may need to close down their business permanently, resulting in a shrinkage of the logistics industry, of the Government's short and medium term measures to meet their urgent demand for land?

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, the Government is making land resources available to meet the housing and other needs of the community. New development areas would be one of the major sources of our future land and housing supply. As most of these new development area projects involve redevelopment of brownfield sites, some 5512 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 existing operations thereon would inevitably be affected in the course of resumption and clearance of land.

My reply to the various parts of the question raised by Mr Frankie YICK is as follows:

(1) The Hung Shui Kiu/Ha Tsuen New Development Area project covers around 441 hectares of development sites, of which about 223 hectares being brownfield sites. Most of these brownfield sites (about 203 hectares) are private lots. This project is taken forward in three phases. The first phase involves 17 hectares of development sites, and 12 hectares of private lots therefrom (including 9 hectares of brownfield sites) have reverted to the Government as scheduled. The first phase affects 40 business undertakings, which mainly include open-air/outdoor warehouses and logistics operations, workshops, shops, car parks, and vehicle repair and accessories trading. Up to this March, eight operators on about 0.6 hectares of land already moved out. According to the works programme, we expect that all business operations affected under the first phase would have to move out gradually before or in 2022.

(2) and (3)

As for the Hung Shui Kiu/Ha Tsuen New Development Area, we have reserved about 61 hectares of land for logistics facilities, port back-up, storage, and workshop uses. Some parts of the land are reserved for developing multi-storey buildings, and some for open-air operations. Development of multi-storey buildings with a plot ratio ranging from five to seven would help compensate for the reduction of industrial floor space as a result of redevelopment of brownfield sites. The Government is now engaging a consultancy firm to ascertain market interest in developing and operating multi-storey buildings, and expects the consultant's report to be completed within this year. This would enable us to make concrete proposals for the development models of the first batch of multi-storey building sites next year, to meet the completion of the site formation works for such sites as early as in 2023.

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Brownfield operations are business undertakings. As in the case for other business undertakings affected by development projects, the Government's basic policy is to provide monetary compensation for eligible business operators, rather than "one-on-one" or "seamless" reprovisioning of their existing space. As a matter of fact, the current large-scale open-air operations on brownfield sites may not be the most optimal use of land for sustainable development. Expecting the Government to make available land of a similar size for affected brownfield operators to re-establish their existing operations is not a practicable option. Monetary compensation is usually the most direct and relevant form of assistance for some of those running relatively traditional brownfield operations and not being adaptable to the current economic environment.

Meanwhile, the Government is trying to alleviate the impact of the relevant development projects on the operators concerned. In this regard, the Government is working on the following measures to address these concerns:

First, in relation to monetary compensation, eligible business operators may receive a statutory compensation as prescribed in the law, or an ex-gratia allowance alternatively. The Finance Committee approved the substantially improved arrangement for ex-gratia allowances in July 2018.

Second, if individual operators wish to search and move to suitable places in other areas, the Government would offer assistance and facilitation in relation to planning and land matters as far as possible, apart from granting the aforesaid monetary compensation. Taking the Hung Shui Kiu/Ha Tsuen New Development Area as an example, we have all along assisted individual operators in obtaining planning permission for, or seeking advice from other government departments on, potential relocation sites.

Third, the Lands Department ("LandsD") is finding suitable vacant government sites for letting to eligible business operators affected by the land resumption and clearance exercise for new development areas or other relevant government development projects, by way of short-term tenancy through tender. The first batch of three pieces of government land in Yuen Long and Fanling suitable for a range of brownfield operations, including storage, workshop, cargo handling, 5514 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

recyclables collection, and fee-paying public car park uses, was rolled out last December. The next batch of three other pieces of government land in Tuen Mun and Kwu Tung North, suitable for various types of brownfield operations including storage and fee-paying public car park, is expected to be put to tender in the same manner in the middle of this year. LandsD would continue to identify suitable vacant sites for eligible business operators to rent with priority by way of short-term tenancy.

Fourth, as I have just mentioned, about 61 hectares of land in the Hung Shui Kiu/Ha Tsuen New Development Area has been reserved for logistics facilities, port back-up uses, and so on, in the long run. This, together with the 11 hectares of land reserved in the Yuen Long South New Development Area for similar uses, may meet the land demand of the sector in the medium term. Separately, we would continue to reserve land for consolidating brownfield operations in other major development projects.

Fifth, in the course of land resumption and clearance, we would do our best to respond to reasonable concerns of the affected brownfield operations when drawing up the implementation details. For instance, even if the land has reverted to the Government in accordance with statutory procedures, we are, to the extent possible under the works implementation programme, allowing the operators concerned to move out in an orderly manner by batches.

To conclude, I hope Honourable Members and the public would appreciate the community's aspiration for land to be supplied continuously and used suitably to meet the housing needs of the people, as well as for economic and livelihood purposes. It is unavoidable that we have to make difficult choices. In this process, the Government would endeavour to be fair and reasonable in the context of overall land use planning and relevant procedures, having regard to the need of balancing different interests as appropriate.

MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary's main reply says that the Government will not offer any "one-on-one" or "seamless" reprovisioning arrangements. I wish to tell the Secretary that the industry will not cherish any unrealistic hope for "one-on-one" arrangements, but they do hope that the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5515

Government can achieve "seamless" reprovisioning because this is a matter of administrative planning that it should be able to handle properly. Nevertheless, this is not my focus today.

My focus today is on the second page of the Secretary's main reply, which states: "… the Government would offer assistance and facilitation in relation to planning and land matters as far as possible, apart from granting the aforesaid monetary compensation." In March 2020, the Town Planning Board ("TPB") revised the TPB Guidelines No. 13F. According to the revised guidelines, if a site involved in an application is not located in a Category 4 area, and the reprovisioning proposal has commanded the support of the relevant Policy Bureau without any objection, then TPB may give sympathetic consideration to the proposal. But less than a year later, when the Civil Engineering and Development Department announced its proposals on using brownfield clusters for public housing development, it nonetheless changed the use of a brownfield site in Ping Shan of Yuen Long from constructing a roofed warehouse initially to public housing development. As a result, a site that could otherwise be used for building a logistics warehouse was again taken away from the logistics industry.

If the Government wishes to achieve the goal of developing Hong Kong into an international maritime and logistics centre as proposed in the Outline Development Plan for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area and also the country's 14th Five-Year Plan, may I ask what kind of support will be provided by the Government for land development?

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, many thanks to Mr YICK for his supplementary question and concern. I appreciate Mr YICK's concern, but I wish to begin by explaining one point.

Speaking of the change in the use of certain sites from brownfield operations initially to public housing development as mentioned just now, I hope Mr YICK can understand that as it is necessary to develop public housing in a certain scale, we will avoid the construction of single-block estates as far as possible. In that case, I must say it is actually very difficult to identify a suitable site or a site with appropriate auxiliary transport and community facilities. As I said in my main reply just now, we sometimes have to make a difficult choice in certain circumstances. I also hope that Mr YICK can show compassionate understanding if our selection has come to affect individual brownfield operators.

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The second part of Mr YICK's supplementary question asks about the work now undertaken by the Government. As I said in my main reply just now, the Director of Lands ("the Director") is now working very hard. If it is found that any government sites can be leased under short-term tenancies, the authorities will launch the relevant sites as support for brownfield operations. We are now undertaking the relevant work. Actually, two batches of sites are now available, and as the Director told me this morning, a third batch of sites will also be launched. We will continue to undertake the relevant work. At present, our hope is that the tenancy period can span at least three to five years. But as I am also aware, Mr YICK may ask about the possibility of a longer tenancy period. I wish to say that it depends on the investment situation of the site concerned and the long-term land demand. We will give consideration to all this.

Besides, we hope to obtain the support of the Legislative Council for our planning work in the future, such as the planning for New Territories North and Tuen Mun West. If we are able to identify any sites within those regions that are suitable for industrial uses, especially for supporting brownfield operations, we will explain the details to the public, and we hope that the Legislative Council can render its support by that time.

MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): I only wish to give a brief reply.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Frankie YICK, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?

MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): President, I only wish to highlight one point very briefly.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr YICK, you may press the "Request to speak" button and wait for another turn to ask a question.

MR WILSON OR (in Cantonese): President, as everybody knows, the land and housing problem has been plaguing Hong Kong all along, and it has even turned into a deep-seated conflict. Even a leader of the country, Vice Premier of the State Council HAN Zheng, has expressed concern about this problem on LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5517 numerous occasions, and he also received views during the "Two Sessions" of the country. "Paying more for a smaller flat" has already become a living reality of Hong Kong people.

President, in gist, the housing problem is all about supply and demand. All along, the Government has been trying to identify sites for housing development through various channels, and this is evident to all. But after all, the Government must make up for the shortfall and play catch-up. While I agree to the idea of developing new development areas or drawing up fresh planning for brownfield sites, I think the Secretary must consider how to "create good conditions with greater efforts and speed in a smarter way". Many brownfield operators have told us about limited space at the reprovisioned site, their difficulties in the course of reprovisioning, and the relatively low rate or chance of successful reprovisioning.

President, the Secretary's main reply states that 61 hectares of land will be used for reprovisioning brownfield operations, and the plot ratio of sites for developing multi-storey buildings will likewise be quite high. But the reality before our very eyes is a failure to meet the demand. The Bureau says that it will deal with their applications on a case-by-case basis. Nevertheless, speaking of the problems concerned, may I ask the Secretary how the authorities will assist brownfield operators? Can the Government dispense with the case-by-case approach and instead set up a task force for a comprehensive review of the possible ways to provide support, so as to "create good conditions with greater efforts and speed in a smarter way" for resolving the existing problem with land supply?

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Many thanks to Mr OR for his supplementary question.

One point that is noteworthy is that the tight supply of land has necessitated a choice between housing development and supporting brownfield or industrial operations. I fully agree to this point, and I wish to share a fact with Mr OR. For example―Mr OR has actually touched on this―in Hung Shui Kiu and Yuen Long South, we have over 70 hectares of land for similar uses. But in Hung Shui Kiu alone, we have already resumed as many as 223 hectares of brownfield sites. This explains why the Government has said that the "one-on-one" arrangement is impossible. If we were able to offer "one-on-one" arrangements, the existing brownfield operators would not be affected. Despite what I say, we 5518 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 will provide as much support as possible in this regard. I have also mentioned the details in the main reply just now, so I will not repeat them here.

Various departments are stepping up their efforts. While there is not much difference between the case-by-case arrangement and the setting up of a task force as the specific handling approach, I will go back and examine the situation in this regard.

MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, the supplementary question put by Mr Frankie YICK earlier on is also the question I wish to ask the Secretary. The Liberal Party's stance on the housing policy is consistent and also in line with that of the Government, and we even support the idea of using greenbelts or the peripheral regions of country parks for housing development, reclamation, and giving priority to infrastructure development. We also support brownfield development, and so on.

Over the past year, I have always stressed the need for striking a balance―a balance between resolving the epidemic and restoring economic development. While I hope that the authorities can identify sites for building public housing and Home Ownership Scheme units for Hong Kong people, I also think that the Secretary should consider how to strike a balance. Nobody has ever demanded that the Secretary must offer "one-on-one" or "seamless" reprovisioning arrangements, and the authorities can actually make preparations beforehand. No matter what, I think that the authorities must not cling to a mindset, the mindset that "we cannot possibly agree to any 'one-on-one' arrangement at the moment". Even if the "one-on-one" arrangement may become possible in the future, I think the relevant operators will have strong views all the same if their lorry parking fee is to be increased from $1,000 in Hung Shui Kiu in the past to $3,000 in Ku Tung because they will be unable to do business.

I hope the Government can reform its mentality, especially its stance on brownfield sites. While the authorities try to resume the relevant brownfield sites, have they identified a sufficient number of sites as compensation? I say so because land shortage will push up land prices. May I ask the Secretary whether the authorities have struck a proper balance in this regard?

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SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, many thanks to Mr CHEUNG for his reminder. Actually, we have undertaken the relevant work with strenuous efforts all along. As I said in my reply to Mr YICK just now, the Government's mentality has adhered to the same principle. In the future, apart from the Hung Shui Kiu/Ha Tsuen New Development Area as I mentioned today, the authorities will likewise draw up planning for other new development areas, one example being the new development areas in New Territories North―representatives from the Development Bureau will attend a meeting of the Panel on Development next week―and commence related studies. For instance, we propose to develop the Man Kam To Logistics Corridor with the centralized provision of logistics facilities because the region enjoys geographical advantages presented by its close proximity to the boundary.

I wish to share an observation with Mr CHEUNG. In gist, if we can further enhance the magnitude and speed of our land development efforts, we may increase land supply. That way, we may fully satisfy the needs of various sides in society, including the needs arising from brownfield operations. We will roll out various measures one after another later on, and we hope that Honourable Members can render their support by that time.

MR KENNETH LAU (in Cantonese): President, some in the community opines that having a stable job is the prerequisite for a decent home, whereas some others may think that having a decent home is the prerequisite for job devotion. Brownfield operations actually have their economic benefits and potential value, but their importance is nonetheless second to housing development. This is the reason explaining the need for the reprovisioning of brownfield operations and the rezoning of brownfield sites for housing construction purpose.

According to the main reply, 40 business undertakings have been affected by the first phase of development, 8 of which have already moved out. How about the remaining 32 business undertakings? May I ask whether the authorities have maintained any statistics showing the fate of the eight business undertakings that have already moved out? Have they succeeded in finding another place to continue with their business? Or, have they all closed down? Besides, how many of their workers have been affected or laid off?

Tender exercises have commenced in December last year for 13 government sites in Yuen Long and Fanling. May I ask the Government about the response to the tender exercises concerned? How many operators have 5520 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 submitted their bids in the end? How are the rents in their offers compared to those paid by them initially?

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Many thanks to Mr LAU for his supplementary question.

Just now, the Honourable Member said that 40 operators were affected, 8 of whom already moved out. The main reason is that we have offered some flexibility at present, in the sense that even though we have posted notices indicating that the Government has already resumed land ownership, we will still allow operators to continue their business at the moment if they so wish as long as the works at their locations have not yet commenced. We have also discussed this arrangement with Mr Frankie YICK, and operators can have a choice under our flexible arrangement. As I said in my main reply just now, we hope that they can move out in an orderly manner by batches next year or before that. We still have confidence in this.

Speaking of the latest status of those eight operators, please allow me to provide further details after obtaining the relevant information due to fast-changing circumstances.

As for the tender exercises, it looks like the progress is satisfactory, and we should be able to announce the results in due course. But since the tender process is still underway, I cannot comment too much. We will launch a second batch of sites, and the Director has also told me that a third batch of sites will be launched. I hope they can meet the needs of the relevant industries.

MR LAU KWOK-FAN (in Cantonese): President, I have been following up issues concerning New Territories development and also brownfield sites. Although a related question has been scheduled for the meeting next week, I also wish to ask my question at this meeting first since Mr YICK has brought up this question today.

Let me begin by saying a thank you to the various staff members in the Development Bureau for their strenuous assistance in the reprovisioning of brownfield operations. I say so because I have many related cases in hand. Just now, a Member also proposed that instead of adopting a case-by-case LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5521 approach, the most desirable handling approach would be the setting up of a task force and a mechanism.

At present, land resumption is necessary, and according to the "Study on Existing Profile and Operation of Brownfield Sites in the New Territories―Feasibility Study" undertaken by the Planning Department, there are 367 hectares of brownfield sites in Hong Kong that are used by the construction industry for storing heavy construction machinery, parking heavy-duty vehicles and keeping construction materials. I for one have also assisted many such brownfield users. Such brownfield users must rely on open-air warehouses because it is impossible for them to move heavy machinery into multi-storey buildings. For this reason, the Government's development of multi-storey buildings in the future will still be unable to resolve the problem of accommodating such operators.

Such users from the construction industry who keep their machinery on brownfield sites have invariably assisted in the construction of public housing units. If the Government evicts them without offering them any assistance in the reprovisioning process, has the Government ever considered the impact on Hong Kong's construction industry and works projects in the days to come? Has the Government provided any specific assistance to them? For instance, apart from developing multi-storey buildings, has the Government provided them with other forms of assistance in business relocation? I have this question because under the existing arrangement, only compensation is offered, without any reprovisioning arrangements.

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Many thanks to Mr LAU Kwok-fan for his supplementary question and also his approval for our certain work. I agree to Mr LAU's analysis, and that is why we are undertaking a market sounding survey. Honestly, not all existing brownfield operations are suitable for relocation to multi-storey buildings, and we agree to this. How should the newly available sites be distributed in the future? As far as we can see, they should be used to meet the needs arising from these two uses. How to ensure appropriate distribution is a challenge we must overcome in the days to come.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fifth question.

5522 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Electronic consumption vouchers

5. MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, when delivering the Budget on 24 February this year, the Financial Secretary proposed issuing electronic consumption vouchers in instalments with a total value of $5,000 to each eligible Hong Kong permanent resident and new arrival aged 18 or above, so as to stimulate local consumption. The initial thinking then was to disburse the sum in five instalments of $1,000 each, and impose a validity period for use. The Government selected four stored value facility ("SVF") operators in early April to assist in implementing the scheme. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it will relax the restrictions on the use of the consumption vouchers, including allowing the unused consumption vouchers of a certain period to be retained for use together with the consumption vouchers disbursed subsequently, and bringing more types of transactions under the scope of use of the consumption vouchers; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(2) whether it will urge the SVF operators concerned to waive the administrative fees charged on merchants for transactions associated with the consumption vouchers; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) of the measures in place to encourage the business sector to organize sales discounts and promotional activities associated with the consumption vouchers so as to further stimulate local consumption?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, the Financial Secretary has announced in the 2021-2022 Budget that electronic consumption vouchers with a total value of $5,000 will be disbursed by instalments to eligible Hong Kong permanent residents and new arrivals aged 18 or above. The Consumption Voucher Scheme ("the Scheme") aims to stimulate the consumer sentiment, enabling the funding under the consumption vouchers to circulate in the local economy, so as to boost local consumption to the fullest extent and accelerate economic recovery through the multiplier effect. It is estimated that there are around 7.2 million eligible LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5523 persons, involving a financial commitment of about $36 billion. At the same time, the Government also wants to encourage through the Scheme more local merchants and members of the public to use electronic payments, so as to foster the development of the local electronic payment market.

My reply to the different parts of the question raised by Ms Starry LEE is as follows:

(1) Making reference to the experiences of other economies in issuing consumption vouchers, we consider that consumption vouchers with a validity period disbursed by instalments over a period of time and limited for use in local merchants could continuously drive and stimulate local consumption during the particular period.

According to the current design, the coverage of the consumption vouchers will be as extensive as possible, covering consumption at physical and online stores of local merchants in the retail, food and beverage, and services sectors. Taking into consideration the policy intent of the Scheme, the consumption vouchers will in principle not be usable for payments to the Government and public organizations or public utilities, spending on public transport covered by the Public Transport Fare Subsidy Scheme, purchases of financial products, overseas consumption, person-to-person payments, encashment and so on. We are discussing with operators of the four Stored Value Facilities ("SVF") selected to participate in the Scheme on practical means to prevent the use of consumption vouchers on payments other than local consumption.

We are working out the implementation details of the Scheme, including the disbursement arrangement. We will carefully consider the different views previously expressed by the public with regard to the number of instalments, the restrictions on usage and scope of use, and so on. We will strive to strike the best balance among various needs and provide flexibility, so as to facilitate the public to use the consumption vouchers for local consumption of different amounts according to their needs, and at the same to achieve the aim of boosting and stimulating the local consumption.

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(2) To boost local consumption to the fullest extent with the Government's funding injection to the Scheme so as to benefit the society, the four SVF operators have agreed to waive, as far as practicable, relevant fees for the installation and usage of electronic payment devices by local merchants (in particular small and medium enterprises) as well as the administrative fees for processing payments made with the consumption vouchers. Merchants do not have to pay for installation if they apply directly to the operators for payment codes or simple devices. The SVF operators, taking into account their own operational model and commercial arrangements, will also rebate the additional income generated from the consumption vouchers to consumers or merchants by various means.

Since the Government announced the list of selected SVFs participating in the Scheme on 11 April, the operators indicated that the number of enquiries from merchants has increased several times, reflecting that merchants' interest to install electronic payment facilities has increased significantly as a result of the implementation of the Scheme and the offers provided by the SVF operators.

(3) We will continue to foster cooperation between the SVF operators and merchants to organize different activities to boost consumption. We will also encourage the business sectors to organize promotion events and provide different offers during the Scheme, with a view to bringing about more additional consumption, so as to enhance the effect of the Scheme.

In addition, we will conduct comprehensive publicity and promotion for the Scheme through various channels, including a website, promotion videos, advertisements, a press conference, press releases, an enquiry hotline, social media and so on, to enable the public and merchants to understand clearly the details and arrangements of the Scheme, as well as to encourage and facilitate their participation.

MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, given the threat posed by virus variants and the uncertainty over when the boundary will be reopened, as well as the volatile pandemic situation, the people and small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") have been complaining about their plight. For that reason, people LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5525 have high expectations for the Government's disbursement of consumption vouchers with a total value of $5,000 in the near future, hoping that the disbursement will be of real help to them. While it will stimulate the economy, the disbursement arrangement should be convenient to the public and local merchants, benefit the people. I hope that the Secretary will take public opinions into careful consideration. With regards to the Secretary's reply on part (1) to my three-part question, the Secretary pledged that the Administration would carefully consider different views expressed by the public in the course of working out the implementation details of the Scheme. In this regard, will the Secretary make it clear that the Government will no longer consider disbursing the vouchers in five instalments as this is not what the public hopes to see? Nevertheless, President, what I wish to follow up now is that in addition to the aforementioned part, as the major shareholder of the Octopus Cards Limited ("Octopus"), will the Government take the lead in urging Octopus to waive the administrative fees charged for transactions associated with the electronic consumption vouchers and the costs to be borne by merchants for the installation of the relevant payment devices?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, regarding the two parts in Ms LEE's supplementary question, I will first answer the first part concerning the number of instalments of the disbursement. Actually, after the Scheme was announced, the market, including the public, have expressed many views, some of which pointed out that frequent disbursements may cause a lot of inconvenience, which may affect the spending flexibility of the public. In this connection, actually we are still listening to different views and discussing with the relevant SVF operators, thus there is still room for minor adjustment. Let me keep Members in suspense for the time being. We will explain the overall arrangement once we have come up with a complete plan. A fragmented explanation may cause some confusion. So it would be better to give us more time to reach understandings with the SVF operators so that we can give an explanation once for all on all issues concerned at a suitable time, and our target is to start registration in this summer.

Secondly, with regards to Ms LEE's supplementary question about the fees, actually, the fees concern two parts, one is the cost to be borne by merchants, and the other is the concession consumers wish to enjoy during the process of spending. In this regard, actually as soon as the Financial Secretary announced that four SVF operators had been selected, we could see that all four operators 5526 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 issued their own press releases concerning what concession or support they would offer through their operation, so as to attract more merchants or shops to install the relevant payment devices. Members should be able to see from my main reply and we also know for our communication with the market that actually many merchants have enquired with the four SVF operators for the details. For that reason, the responses of merchants as well as four SVF operators are very positive. In this regard, we will maintain the communication with SVF operators and see what areas can be further improved.

MR WILSON OR (in Cantonese): President, just now the Secretary explained in the main reply that he would be working out the implementation details of the Scheme. Actually, the Budget has set aside $36 billion for the purpose of disbursing electronic consumption vouchers to 7.2 million Hong Kong permanent residents aged 18 or above, which has been well received in the community. In my neighbourhood visits, people told me that it was good. However, members of the public were concerned about whether the SAR Government would make blunders in implementation or how it should make it more user friendly? As to publicity, just now I have heard that the Bureau would promote it through various channels. However, I hope that the Secretary will consider using channels other than online media, such as RoadShow or other means to enhance the publicity. Nevertheless, I wish to raise a more important issue. The Secretary should also know that as far as the disbursement of these consumption vouchers is concerned, no matter whether they are disbursed by instalments or in one go, those with ill intent may abuse them. The Government is considering the implementation details, but I have found a big loophole, Secretary, that is, the Octopus card. If people with ill intent want to encash or re-sell these consumption vouchers, actually there is a loophole for them to do so. Will the Secretary tell us what specific measure can be put in place to prevent people from taking advantage of the loophole and making profits by abusing these consumption vouchers?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, I wish to thank Mr OR for collecting public views in this area from time to time for us, so as to make our work smoother and more considerate. As Ms LEE and Mr OR mentioned just now, the Scheme covers many areas, particularly as pointed out by Mr OR, the possible tricks in the use of the Octopus card or other SVFs. To put it in a simple way, our Scheme may be viewed from three perspectives. First, the public, because we must ensure that members of public will receive the consumption vouchers. Second, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5527 consumption; it is for consumption purpose. Third, local market, that is, the consumption is restricted to local market. Therefore, that is why we need more time to discuss the details, including those mentioned by Mr OR just now? For example, will the vouchers be encashed; or what if a person demands a refund after making a purchase? A lot of details have to be discussed. This is why our colleagues are working so hard to discuss with the four SVF operators. It is because we should confine the scope of the Scheme, the first concerns the public; the second is for the purpose of consumption and the third is the restriction of the consumption to local market. We should also prevent the situation that Mr OR has mentioned just now. Actually we are well aware of these and we know we should be very careful. It is because if someone can easily demand a refund after making a purchase, then we will not be able to achieve the effect of stimulating consumption. We may also ask if the local consumption really benefits local merchants. All of these are questions we should ponder upon and discuss. For that reason, please give us some time in this regard. We will explain to the public as soon as possible.

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): The Government plans to disburse electronic consumption vouchers to Hong Kong permanent residents and new arrivals aged 18 or above, but there is one major shortcoming, that is, some people who are unable to spend due to personal reasons may not be able to enjoy this right, such as elderly people residing in residential care homes, patients with chronic illness, and most importantly local residents behind bars. For that reason, may I ask the Secretary, with regards to those who are unable to spend due to various restrictions, has the Administration considered the implementation of certain policies to enable these people to enjoy their inherent right?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, I wish to thank Dr CHENG for his concern about those who are restricted by different circumstances or conditions in the community. The Government is also concerned about them. Our thought at the moment is: as far as the inmates mentioned by Dr CHENG just now are concerned, as I have pointed out previously that the Scheme aims at three objectives, namely people, consumption and local market. As to people, Hong Kong permanent resident and new arrivals aged 18 or above are all eligible, so inmates should also be included. For that reason, we understand the concern and will discuss with the Correctional Services Department about the relevant arrangement.

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Besides, Dr CHENG has just mentioned some other people whose mobility is limited due to personal circumstances. With regards to people who have special needs, we are currently discussing with the Social Welfare Department if we can draw reference from the Cash Payout Scheme and make some specific arrangements so as to enable them to register through the centralized registration system, which should also include the appointment of a specific agent. All of these are being considered. We hope that the Scheme can really help people from all walks of life.

MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): President, on 27 January this year, I also demanded in this Chamber that the Secretary should disburse electronic consumption vouchers worth $5,000. At that time, the Secretary told me that it was unlikely for the Government to consider my proposal due to its financial implications. On 11 April, the Financial Secretary announced publicly that the Government would disburse the electronic consumption vouchers to the public, and the value was exactly $5,000. The moral of the story is: First, if we persist and if all pro-establishment parties are united as one, a miracle will happen. Second, the Government is actually not that stubborn, as it will eventually listen to public opinions and change its policy. This is something good and it deserves our support.

At 4:00 pm today, I will host a forum with Mr Tommy CHEUNG on electronic consumption vouchers, and I have invited the four SVF operators to brief the business sector on the application procedures.

I wish to put forward another proposal for the Secretary to consider. Everyone knows that as far as vaccination is concerned, Hong Kong is among the worst performers. The Secretary always talks about incentives. Some friends told me that had the Government announced that people receiving vaccination would be given electronic consumption vouchers worth $5,000, it was possible that a large number of people would have received the vaccination. But if the Government announces the offer of consumption vouchers worth $5,000 in return for vaccination now, people will criticize the Government. Nevertheless, if the Government offers additional vouchers worth $3,000 on top of the $5,000, that is, an additional $3,000 worth of vouchers in return for vaccination, it is possible that it will become an extra incentive. In this connection, will the Secretary consider disbursing the additional electronic consumption vouchers worth $3,000 as an incentive to encourage the public to receive the jab of vaccination?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5529

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): I wish to thank Member for recognizing our work in response to public opinions and Members' questions. With regards to the situation you mentioned just now, I believe that the vaccination issue involves a major public health policy, for that reason, should it be linked with money? I consider that a question of significance, but this may not be the proper occasion for us to discuss the question. As I have pointed out in the reply to Question No. 3 just now, Members were concerned that the Government had to allocate a lot of resources to support sectors or people affected by the pandemic, yet the support or the policy was only stop-gap measure. The most important thing is, as Member has pointed out just now, vaccination is the best solution. We should view things from the public's perspective, that is, to create a safe environment for the speedy economic recovery. In this connection, I believe that we have a common goal in our concern for the vaccination programme. But specifically, in my opinion, the measures or incentives are a matter of great significance. I have listened to Member's views. In the next stage, we may have better discussions from the public health perspective.

MR MA FUNG-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, in my capacity as a representative of the sectors of sports, performing arts, culture and publication, we can see that a lot of training and performing activities have to be suspended as a result of the Government's anti-epidemic initiatives. The sectors are among the hardest hit by the pandemic. The sectors actually have high expectations for the Scheme, as the Scheme may encourage the public to take part in various cultural and sports activities and help the revival of the sectors. But under the current Scheme, the sectors can benefit if they use the payment system of only one of the four SVF operators. I have told the Government in a previous special meeting of the Finance Committee that URBTIX did not use any of the four payment systems, and many training institutions did not use these payment systems either. In this connection, I hope the Government will follow up on the issue as soon as practicable. I would like to know the progress made by the Government in this regard. Moreover, what will the Government do to help leisure and cultural organizations to carry out the training programmes and use these electronic payment systems, so as to enable them to benefit from the Scheme?

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SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, I understand Mr MA's concerns about the sectors, and we fully recognize such concerns. The coverage of the consumption vouchers will be as extensive as possible. It will also cover art performance tickets bought by the public through local merchants, and I believe this is something Mr MA concerns more. Actually we have enquired with LCSD―Leisure and Cultural Services Department of the current payment methods accepted by URBTIX, which included cash, credit cards (such as China Union Pay) or debit cards. Actually, among the four SVF operators selected by the Government, Tap & Go―I am not promoting the operator; I am just telling the truth that the public may purchase tickets at URBTIX through Tap & Go. For that reason, the situation mentioned by Mr MA can actually be dealt with by one of the four SVF operators.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Last question seeking an oral reply.

Vaccination against the Coronavirus Disease 2019

6. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): President, with the continuous rise in the number of people vaccinated against the Coronavirus Disease 2019 globally, the governments of various places have introduced "vaccine passports" one after another, with a view to resuming cross-border travel and restarting the economy. Regarding vaccination, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has considered introducing vaccine passports when the local vaccination rate has reached a specified level, and discussing with the governments of various places mutual recognition of vaccine passports to exempt travellers who have been vaccinated from entry quarantine; if so, of the details;

(2) given the emergence of local confirmed cases recently involving virus variants, whether it has studied the efficacy of the two vaccines currently provided by the Government in preventing infections with virus variants; of the progress of its study on the procurement of second-generation vaccines; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5531

(3) given that many members of the public are still hesitant towards vaccination, what new measures the Government has put in place to encourage members of the public to receive vaccination?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, my reply to the various parts of the question raised by Mr CHAN Hak-kan is as follows:

(1) As of yesterday, more than 1.1 billion doses of COVID-19 vaccine have been administered worldwide, equal to 15 doses for every 100 people. With vaccination programmes being implemented in different places, and gradual publishing of clinical user statistics as well as immunization responses, we can obtain more information on the efficacy and quality of various COVID-19 vaccines. The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("SAR") Government has been closely monitoring the vaccination certification, recognition and verification arrangements of individual places, countries and economies, and has been considering vaccination as a criteria to reduce quarantine. Arrangements regarding "vaccination passport" requires discussions between the governments of different places, and factors such as epidemic development, health control and prevention measures, and vaccination progress of the relevant places, etc. will be taken into consideration.

As vaccination rates around the world are rapidly increasing, we note that some places are considering or have announced the reduction or lifting of quarantine for vaccinated persons. The SAR Government has also announced that considering that the epidemic situations in certain places have stabilized and pose lower public health risks, with reference to the "vaccine bubble" concept, it will adjust the quarantine arrangements for persons who have stayed in overseas places other than extremely high-risk and very high-risk places. The basic boarding and quarantine requirements will remain unchanged for high-risk and medium-risk places (i.e. Group B and Group C specified places), but the Government will supplement in 5532 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

due course new arrangements applicable to fully vaccinated persons and shorten the compulsory quarantine period for the relevant persons from 21 days to 14 days under the "vaccine bubble" concept. As for low-risk Group D specified places (i.e. Singapore, Australia and New Zealand), the compulsory quarantine period for fully vaccinated persons will also be correspondingly shortened from 14 days to 7 days in due course under the "vaccine bubble" concept. Persons who have completed quarantine under the adjusted Group B, Group C and Group D requirements will be required to self-monitor for seven days and undergo compulsory testing after their shortened quarantine.

The SAR Government is now implementing the vaccination programme at full speed. A higher vaccination rate will give us better leverage to negotiate with other places the arrangements for resumption of cross-boundary travel.

(2) There were several mutant variant strains circulating globally, including the variants that first emerged in the United Kingdom (B.1.1.7), in South Africa (B.1.351) and in Brazil (P.1). In general, studies have shown that the existing vaccines work well against the non-variant, and the effectiveness data against variants differ by vaccines. With regard to the two types of COVID-19 vaccines provided in Hong Kong, the BioNTech vaccine is effective against B.1.1.7 and P.1, but is less effective against B.1.351. For the Sinovac vaccine, the drug manufacturer concerned is currently implementing a large scale study in Brazil and more efficacy data against variants will be available. Regarding the first local case of infection with unknown source involving a mutant virus strain, the two authorized vaccines in Hong Kong are still effective in vitro testing against the two mutant viruses detected in the relevant case. In view of the higher transmissibility of mutant strains, we urge the public to get vaccinated without delay.

The quantity of vaccines procured by the Government and to be supplied this year is sufficient for meeting our goal to provide LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5533

vaccines for the majority of the population within this year. On the other hand, we have started to consider procuring the next generation COVID-19 vaccines, with a view to planning for the next phase of vaccination programme in Hong Kong. We hope that the next generation vaccines can have better efficacy in terms of protection. The protection power of the vaccines against mutant virus strains is also an important factor for us when considering to authorize and procure COVID-19 vaccines in the future. Although we cannot predict with certainty when the next generation vaccines will be available, we have started to discuss with vaccine manufacturers from various places to provide Hong Kong with the next generation vaccines with stronger protection powers against mutant virus strains, with a view to supporting our next phase of the COVID-19 vaccination programme.

(3) The Government has adjusted various social distancing measures with "vaccine bubble" as the basis. In respect of catering business, we have provided four types of mode of operation for eateries, under which the operation restrictions on the relevant premises would be relaxed subject to whether their staff and customers have received COVID-19 vaccination and the use of the "LeaveHomeSafe" mobile application. Moreover, six types of premises (viz. bars or pubs, bathhouses, party rooms, clubs or nightclubs, karaoke establishments and mahjong-tin kau premises) may also resume operation in a gradual manner on the premise that their staff and/or customers must receive COVID-19 vaccination and customers must use the "LeaveHomeSafe" mobile application. We have also relaxed the restrictions in relation to group gatherings, including wedding ceremonies, religious gatherings and business meetings held in order to comply with any Ordinance or other regulatory instrument such as annual general meetings on the premise that their participants must have received at least the first dose of COVID-19 vaccine. Group gatherings of not more than 30 persons each during tours may also resume operation on the premise that their frontline staff must have received the first dose of COVID-19 vaccine.

5534 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

The Government will closely monitor the progress of the vaccination programme and the implementation of the "vaccine bubble", and having regard to the development of the epidemic, timely adjust the relevant measures.

MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): President, I can see that the Secretary for Food and Health has indeed been working day and night to combat the pandemic. She has also adjusted many relevant policies in response to the pandemic situation. However, some follow-up and support measures seem unable to catch up. For example, the authorities have requested a certain category of people to undergo regular testing but the specimen bottles are highly insufficient for distribution. I have also repeatedly told the Bureau that only 230 specimen bottles are available throughout the local post offices for all the residents in the North District, whereas only 170 are available in Tai Po for all the residents in the district. As for the specimen collection packs at MTR stations, they may be exhausted as early as 8:15 am and will not be available after 9:30 am. Under such circumstances, how can members of the public work hand in hand with the Government?

President, I recall putting a question to the Chief Executive here in mid-March as to when individuals having received two vaccine doses can be exempt from quarantine for travelling to the Mainland and Macao. At the time, the Chief Executive said that the Government had started discussion with the Mainland authorities long ago and the discussion was still ongoing. In April, Ms Starry LEE, who was next to me, asked the same question and the Chief Executive still said that the matter was being taken care of. Today, it is already May. I would like to ask the Secretary again: when can Hong Kong people having received two vaccine doses be exempt from quarantine for travelling to the Mainland and Macao? Alternatively, could she tell us what vaccination percentage rate Hong Kong must achieve to get this job done?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHAN Hak-kan for his supplementary question. To begin with, our COVID-19 vaccination rate is currently about 15%, with nearly 600 000 people having received two doses and about 1 million having received one dose. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5535

Although almost 1 million people have been vaccinated, this figure still falls quite short of what we need to build a protective barrier.

As regards the arrangements for cross-boundary travel between Hong Kong and the Mainland and between Hong Kong and Macao, certainly our discussion is still ongoing, because we must get our own pandemic situation under control, which is also a prerequisite for opening up the boundary crossings. In addition, cross-boundary drivers having received two doses of vaccine who wish to go to the Mainland are now required to get tested once every three days, as reduced from once a day.

Of course, the Mainland also has a stringent quarantine system, so while trying our best to increase the vaccination rate in Hong Kong, we will continue to discuss with the Mainland authorities so as to hopefully resume travel with the Mainland and Macao as soon as possible, maybe starting with baby steps.

MR POON SIU-PING (in Cantonese): President, the President of the United States, Mr Joe BIDEN, earlier announced a target of having at least 70% of Americans vaccinated with one dose by 4 July. He pointed out that, if successful, it would be an important step towards returning to normal life. On the contrary, the not-so-satisfactory vaccination rate in Hong Kong, standing at about 15% as the Secretary said earlier, reveals that many people are still hesitant towards vaccination. While Mr CHAN Hak-kan asked what new measures the Government had put in place to encourage members of the public to receive vaccination, the Secretary mentioned in her main reply some new measures taken in catering premises, bars and pubs, etc. to encourage vaccination among their staff and customers, but I consider that these new measures may not necessarily be able to meet the Government's expectation of a significant increase in vaccination rate.

What is even more worrying is that the recent emergence of local cases of virus variants might trigger a new outbreak anytime, possibly on a larger scale than before. That is why vaccination is very important in providing protection against infection. In part (b) of the main reply, the Secretary mentioned: "Although we cannot predict with certainty when the next generation vaccines 5536 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 will be available, we have started to discuss with vaccine manufacturers from various places to provide Hong Kong with the next generation vaccines with stronger protection powers against mutant virus strains, with a view to supporting our next phase of the COVID-19 vaccination programme." May I ask the Secretary whether she can disclose the progress of the Government's discussions with the suppliers about the new generation vaccines? Is it discussing with the two current suppliers of vaccine? What is the target of the next phase of the vaccination programme?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr POON for his question. In fact, we are exploring ways with vaccine suppliers to provide Hong Kong with the new generation vaccines that will offer stronger protection against the virus variants. As Members know, the total quantity of the two vaccines we have procured now is 15 million doses, which are sufficient for use by Hong Kong people this year. So, as I said earlier, the Government will provide these two vaccines this year.

As regards the next phase of the vaccination programme, to be launched next year at the earliest, we have been looking into when different suppliers are able to provide vaccines that offer stronger protection against mutant virus strains. Actually, I believe that scientists around the world are also studying this issue. We will certainly continue to discuss it with them, with a view to procuring vaccines with stronger protection for Hong Kong people when we purchase vaccines again.

MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Cantonese): President, it was a long time ago when I told the Chief Executive that, in order to enable vaccinated members of the public and tourists to travel to and from low-risk areas, the Government should push for the earliest mutual recognition of vaccination, and thus reduction or waiving of quarantine. This explains why I strongly support "vaccine passports". I have also learnt from various channels that the Mainland authorities are concerned about the reduction or complete waiving of quarantine for holders of "vaccine passports", mainly because a considerable number of people have no obvious antibody response after vaccination. Therefore, Secretary, I suggest that LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5537 additional conditions should be imposed on the "vaccine passports" requiring that serological testing must be done at the same time to ensure the existence of a certain level of antibodies before exemption from quarantine is granted.

President, despite the requirement for completion of a 21-day quarantine period plus three tests upon arrival in Hong Kong, eight cases involving virus variants have slipped through the cracks and entered the local community in the past two weeks. Therefore, I request that a new measure be implemented as soon as possible today to conduct two additional blood tests for antibodies during the 21-day quarantine period upon arrival, one on the first day and the other on the last day. Those having antibodies without prior vaccination should be sent to hospital immediately. Those vaccinated but having received different results from the two tests for antibodies should also be sent to hospital. It is because, as they are supposed to have developed antibodies after vaccination, any difference in antibodies between the two tests has nothing to do with the vaccine but indicates instead that the latent virus has been reactivated during the period. Will the Secretary consider these two conditions or suggestions put forward by me?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, when it comes to preventing the importation of cases, we have also to put in place a set of relatively stringent measures. Apart from the flight suspension mechanism and the flight prohibition for certain extremely high-risk countries, as well as the testing before arrival in Hong Kong and upon arrival at the airport, notably we are exploring whether it is actually possible to relax or waive the quarantine requirements for arrivals who have been vaccinated with two doses for about 14 days, that is, when they have been fully vaccinated. We are also looking at the overall situation.

As for the different yardsticks, such as the need to look at the serum or the number of tests to be conducted as mentioned by Mr TIEN, the Centre for Health Protection of the Department of Health is working on them and seeking expert advice. Therefore, in this regard, once the updated information is available, we will certainly release it in a timely manner.

5538 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, I strongly believe that, among those subjected to mandatory quarantine, anyone who has tested negative again after 14 days from the second-dose vaccination should possibly have their quarantine period reduced. This is also a very important incentive for members of the public to get vaccinated, because the "vaccine bubble" is not just geared to dining and entertainment. In truth, when there is a real possibility of a confirmed case where you live, and your neighbours are worried about how long they will be quarantined in isolation after being cordoned off, you will be less affected if you have been vaccinated with two doses. Actually, this is the greatest incentive of all. A friend, fully agreeing with me, also said: "Could it be that vaccination serves the sole purpose of pub-going?" Another one, putting it in rhyme, said: "Could it be that we get a shot of vaccine just to be able to dine in?" May I know whether the Secretary has taken any concrete action in this regard?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): In fact, vaccination offers a lot of benefits. On the one hand, it can safeguard our physical wellbeing and protect our life by minimizing the risk of COVID-19 contraction and, even in the event of infection, reducing the severity of disease. On the other hand, of course, it can protect our families and even society as a whole. After a vaccine-based protective barrier is established, it will give us better leverage to discuss travel arrangements with other parties, so there will definitely be positives for our return to normal life.

Ir Dr LO, I fully agree that the boosting of our immunity after 14 days from the second-dose COVID-19 vaccination will surely have a positive impact on the duration of quarantine, especially for the contacts, close or otherwise. Therefore, apart from possibly exempting those vaccinated with two doses from testing after 14 days from the second vaccination, that is, waiving some regular tests or mandatory tests, we are in fact actively exploring some options to shorten the quarantine period. In this regard, the Centre for Health Protection and our experts are actively engaged in the study. We will announce the solution as soon as available.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Oral questions end here.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5539

WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

Trade unions conducting annual general meetings

7. MR POON SIU-PING (in Chinese): President, the Trade Unions Ordinance (Cap. 332) stipulates that trade unions shall make rules on the matters specified in Schedule 2. These matters include the method of convening and conducting annual general meetings ("AGMs"). However, quite a number of representatives of trade unions have relayed that due to the rampant Coronavirus Disease 2019 epidemic, their trade unions have not held AGMs for more than a year to handle the personnel and accounts matters of the trade unions concerned. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective numbers and percentages of trade unions which have made enquiries with and sought assistance from the Registry of Trade Unions since the outbreak of the epidemic on matters relating to the conduct of AGMs; and

(2) whether it has formulated guidelines setting out the arrangements for AGMs of trade unions under special circumstances (e.g. an epidemic); if so, of the details; if not, whether it will immediately formulate guidelines and recommend trade unions to make rules specifying the arrangements for handling the personnel and accounts matters of the trade unions concerned in the event that AGMs cannot be conducted; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, in accordance with Schedule 2 to the Trade Unions Ordinance ("TUO"), each registered trade union must specify in its rules (or called the constitution) the method of convening and conducting annual general meetings ("AGMs") and extraordinary general meetings, and the matters to be presented to the members of the trade union at such meetings, including in the case of AGMs the presentation of audited accounts. In this regard, TUO does not provide for any exemption arrangement. With regard to Member's question, my reply is as follows:

(1) During the outbreak of Coronavirus Disease 2019 pandemic, the Registry of Trade Unions ("RTU") of the Labour Department has received enquiries from trade unions about the holding of AGMs. 5540 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

RTU has provided advice and suggestions to the trade unions concerned. RTU does not keep statistics on the related enquiries.

(2) Generally speaking, trade unions should hold AGMs in the month(s) specified in their rules. If trade unions need to convene AGMs in accordance with their rules during the pandemic, they also have to comply with the requirements of the Prevention and Control of Disease (Prohibition on Group Gathering) Regulation (Cap. 599G) and take appropriate anti-epidemic measures. RTU understands that quite a number of trade unions have convened their AGMs as scheduled in accordance with their rules. If individual trade unions need to make special arrangements for convening AGMs, they should explain to their members the relevant situation and consult members' views, so as to ensure members' understanding of the special arrangements.

Trade unions are welcome to contact RTU should they have the related enquiries.

Vetting of the qualifications for specialist registration

8. MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Chinese): President, according to the Medical Registration Ordinance (Cap. 161), the requirements for a registered medical practitioner's name to be included in the Specialist Register include (a) having been awarded a Fellowship of the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine ("HKAM"), or (b) having been certified by HKAM to have training and qualification comparable to that required of an HKAM Fellow in the relevant specialty. A non-locally trained doctor may have his name included in the Specialist Register if he has been certified by HKAM to have met requirement (b). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether it knows:

(1) the number of applications, received by HKAM in each of the past 10 years, for vetting the applicants' qualifications to see if requirement (b) had been met; and

(2) in respect of the applications mentioned in (1), (i) a breakdown of the number by the specialty involved and the place where the applicants received their training, and (ii) the respective numbers of those which have been approved, have been rejected, are under vetting, and are under appeal?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5541

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, in consultation with the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine ("HKAM"), my reply to the question raised by Mr Tommy CHEUNG is as follows:

(1) The numbers of applications received by HKAM in the past 10 years for vetting specialist qualifications are as follows:

Year Number of Applications 2011 7 2012 8 2013 10 2014 5 2015 6 2016 10 2017 6 2018 6 2019 9 2020 7 Total 74

(2) In respect of the 74 applications mentioned in part (1), the percentage of applicants by place of specialist training received is as follows:

Place of Training Percentage (%) The United Kingdom 43 The United States of America 18 Australia and New Zealand 16 Canada 8 Singapore 7 Malaysia 2 France 2 Germany 1 Ireland 1 Macao, China 1 Taiwan, China 1

Note:

Some applicants received specialist training in more than one country or region.

5542 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

In respect of the 74 applications mentioned in part (1), the number of applications by specialty is as follows:

Specialty Number of Applications Medicine 31 Radiology 9 Surgery 9 Psychiatry 5 Ophthalmology 4 Orthopaedics & Traumatology 4 Paediatrics 3 Family Medicine 3 Obstetrics & Gynaecology 3 Ear, Nose and Throat 2 Anaesthesiology 1 Total 74

In respect of the 74 applications mentioned in part (1), the respective numbers of applications which have been approved, have been rejected, are under vetting, and are under appeal are as follows:

Approval Status Number Approved 49 Rejected 24 Under Vetting 1 Under Appeal 0 Total 74

Police officers and their family members being mistreated

9. MR JEFFREY LAM (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that since the eruption in June 2019 of the movement of opposition to the proposed legislative amendments, incidents of police officers and their family members being mistreated have happened time and again. For instance, some healthcare workers in public hospitals deliberately inflicted greater pain on police officers when treating their wounds, and some children of police officers were bullied by their teachers and classmates in schools. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5543

(1) of the number of related complaints received by the authorities since June 2019, with a breakdown by the type of organizations (e.g. schools and hospitals) involved in the complaints;

(2) of the details of the follow-up actions taken by the authorities in respect of such complaints, including whether any teachers and healthcare workers under complaint have been punished;

(3) of the new measures in place to provide assistance for the police officers and their family members who have been mistreated (e.g. assisting in school transfer, and providing additional allowances or medical insurance for them to switch to using private healthcare services); and

(4) whether it will set up a dedicated task force to follow up on such complaints, and render assistance to the police officers and their family members concerned; if not, of the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, since the outbreak of acts of serious violence, "Hong Kong independence" and riots that prevailed in the latter half of 2019, there have been complaints from police officers about them and their family members being bullied or unfairly treated at schools and public hospitals. The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region is deeply concerned about this. The Hong Kong Police Force ("HKPF") has also immediately established mechanisms with relevant organizations and bureaux/departments to reflect and refer such cases, and provided necessary assistance to the colleagues concerned.

According to the information provided by the Education Bureau ("EDB"), the Food and Health Bureau ("FHB") and HKPF, my reply to Mr Jeffrey LAM's question is as follows:

Bullying in Schools

As at end March 2021, EDB has received 25 complaints/requests for assistance concerning bullying of police officers' children in schools. According to EDB, the majority of the cases (16 out of 25) related to disharmony in speeches and relationship among the students, while the remaining cases involved suspected bullying of students by teachers.

5544 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

As regards the aforementioned cases received, EDB said that the schools have handled them in accordance with the guidelines issued by EDB and provided emotional support and counselling to the students affected, as well as explained the incidents to the parents concerned. For complaints that were substantiated after investigations, the schools have taken disciplinary action against the teachers/students involved.

According to EDB, it has been adopting a zero tolerance policy on any act of bullying in schools. The Bureau has reminded schools to pay extra attention from time to time to the emotional wellness of the students who are particularly vulnerable to bullying (including children of police officers during the times of violent riots), and how they get along with other students, so as to provide timely support and take necessary follow-up actions. As regards acts of bullying among students, schools should immediately stop such improper act, re-evaluate the situation of students involved and provide appropriate assistance. Schools should guide their students to have self-reflection and work on ways to solve the problem, with the aim of preventing the recurrence of such incidents. If necessary, schools will arrange counselling staff to assist the children being bullied, or further enlist the help of professionals, such as social workers and psychologists, to provide support and mediation services so as to safeguard their psychological health while preventing them from being hurt again.

As regards cases involving teachers, EDB advises that it takes every one of them seriously, same as other suspected cases of misconduct of teachers, to protect the well-being of the children of police officers, so as to ensure that they can learn and grow happily in a healthy and peaceful campus environment. For any substantiated case, EDB will consider the gravity of each case and take appropriate action against the teacher concerned. Actions may include issuing an advisory, warning or reprimand letter, or even cancellation of teacher registration in accordance with the Education Ordinance.

Complaints against Medical Services

According to FHB, as a public healthcare service provider, the Hospital Authority ("HA") has the responsibility to provide professional and equitable healthcare services for the public, and has reminded its staff to avoid leading to misperception from patients that public hospitals could not adhere to the code of conduct for healthcare professionals because of difference in stances or background, even to the extent of affecting public hospital services. HA has put in place an established mechanism to handle disciplinary matters of its staff. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5545

Disciplinary actions taken are not confined to cases relating to complaints on medical services. HA will consider the seriousness of the incidents and take appropriate disciplinary actions, including counselling, verbal or written warnings, and dismissal for cases of gross misconduct.

According to FHB, as at end March 2021, HA has received 43 complaint cases referred by HKPF. These complaints mainly concern issues of operational arrangements, staff attitude or communication. HA has conducted investigations on the cases in accordance with the established procedures, and has completed following up on 42 of them with replies issued. HA is following up on the remaining case. HA has reminded its staff in respect of professional attitude as well as communications with patients or members of the public, and handled individual cases involving breach of discipline in accordance with its established personnel procedures.

Communication Mechanisms and Other Support

Regarding the bullying of police officers' children in schools, the management of HKPF and EDB have established a reporting mechanism for handling and following up on such cases with a view to safeguarding the safety of police officers' children. As necessary, the HKPF management has provided full assistance to arrange school transfer for the police officers' children being bullied. For any request of school transfer made by the parents, EDB will first understand the parents' concerns and need, and encourage them to work with the schools to help their children face and cope with the problems of bullying. Besides, the parents will have to be aware of the potential issues of school transfer that might have on their children. For instance, the children may have to adapt to a new learning environment. If the parents still consider it more appropriate for their children to have the school transfer, EDB will provide all necessary assistance in accordance with the established mechanism. According to EDB, as regards police parents who have requested school transfer for their children, they are satisfied with the school transfer arrangement, with some preferring their children to remain in the original school after communication with schools.

HKPF and HA have set up a two-tier communication platform to improve the mechanism of communication regarding provision of medical services between both sides since the outbreak of the violent riots in 2019. At the headquarters level, management of HKPF and HA meet regularly to exchange views on policy issues. At the district level, representatives of the police 5546 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 districts/divisions can reach out to the hospital representatives of the district directly on various matters for instant communication and handling.

Besides, HKPF has put in place a mechanism to provide welfare and support services to the colleagues and their families in need, including providing assistance in seeking private healthcare services to injured/sick colleagues according to their wish. Besides, the Psychological Services Group of HKPF also offers a range of psychological counselling and support services to police officers and their families who are in need or affected, providing them a channel to alleviate their emotions.

The Government reiterates that these instances of police officers' children being bullied and police officers being unfairly treated are absolutely unacceptable. All departments and organizations concerned have to handle each and every complaint seriously. For cases involving teachers or medical staff which are found to be substantiated, their professional misconduct will be followed up seriously.

Upward adjustment of the first registration tax and licence fees for private cars

10. MRS REGINA IP (in Chinese): President, in recent years, as the vehicle sales industry has been hard hit successively by the Sino-US trade conflicts, the disturbances arising from the opposition to the proposed legislative amendments and the Coronavirus Disease 2019 epidemic, its business environment has been very difficult. The sales volume of new private cars ("PCs") in 2020 dropped by 12.4% as compared with that in 2018, and the rate of the drop in the sales volume of non-electric PCs during the same period even reached 22.5%. On the other hand, in delivering the 2021-2022 Budget on 24 February this year, the Financial Secretary proposed adjusting upwards the rates of the various tax bands for the first registration tax for PCs (including electric PCs), and the annual licence fees for PCs and electrically powered passenger vehicles ("the tax and fees"), by 15% and 30% respectively. Members of the industry consider that such a move by the Government has undoubtedly rubbed salt into their wounds. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether, under the current economic downturn, the Government had, before deciding to adjust upwards the tax and fees, taken into LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5547

account the blow that such a move would deal to the vehicle sales industry; and

(2) given that some members of the vehicle sales industry have called on the Government to defer or phase (e.g. over three to six years) the implementation of the upward adjustment of the tax and fees, so as to give the industry some breathing space, whether the Government will consider such suggestions; if so, specifically how it will implement them; if not, of the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, my consolidated reply to the two parts of Mrs Regina IP's question is as follows:

Given that Hong Kong is a small and densely-populated city, the Government has been encouraging the public to take public transport instead of driving private cars ("PCs") for commuting, in order to optimize the use of limited road space. However, the fleet size of licensed PCs in Hong Kong is enormous and has grown continuously. Its number substantially increased by almost 40% from about 420 000 in 2010 to about 570 000 in 2020, resulting in the worsening of road traffic congestion.

To alleviate traffic congestion, the Government has all along adopted a multi-pronged strategy that includes improving the transport infrastructure, expanding and enhancing the public transport system and managing road use. Nonetheless, a number of these alleviating measures take time to materialize and meanwhile, Hong Kong's land resources remain scarce. With the continuous growth of vehicles in Hong Kong, the effect of these alleviating measures could hardly sustain in the long run.

Fiscal measure is one of the effective ways to control the growth of PCs, and had been introduced in the past. However, the first registration tax ("FRT") rates for PCs were last increased in 2011, whereas the vehicle licence fee ("VLF") levels for PCs have been frozen since 1991. In determining the magnitude of increase of the FRT rates and VLF levels for PCs by 15% and 30% respectively, we have taken into account such factors as the prevailing socio-economic circumstances and public acceptability, striking a balance among considerations of all parties.

5548 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Although it is noted that the growth of PCs slightly slowed down in the recent couple of years, which may be attributed to socio-economic factors, the growth of first registered and licensed PCs has resumed in recent months. The year-on-year growth rate of licensed PCs was 2.5% in March 2021, with its total number reaching the historical high of almost 580 000 as at end March 2021. We expect the number of PCs to increase by a larger magnitude once the pandemic further subsides. If we do not take resolute and immediate action to curb the growth of PCs, it would be even more challenging to implement measures to alleviate traffic congestion in future.

In adjusting FRT and VLF for PCs, we have given exemptions to PCs on order, or PCs imported for personal use and arranged by the vehicle owners for shipment to Hong Kong, prior to the effective time. Exemption is also given to PCs eligible for licence renewal on or before 24 February 2021. In other words, the above mentioned PCs are not subject to the new tax rates or new licence fees, cushioning the impact on the public and the trade. As regards the proposal of deferring or phasing the implementation of the adjustment of FRT rates, upon careful consideration, we are of the view that the proposal will in effect encourage prospective PC buyers to expedite the purchases before the adjustment of the FRT rates in order to enjoy the lower tax rates. This will lead to a substantial surge in car sales and subsequently the number of licensed PCs in the near future, which is contrary to our objective of curbing the growth of PCs. All in all, we must bear in mind the overall interest of the community and pragmatically address the issue of traffic congestion in Hong Kong, which has stemmed from its dense population and scarce land resources.

The Policy Innovation and Co-ordination Office

11. IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Chinese): President, the Chief Executive announced in the 2017 Policy Address that the Central Policy Unit ("CPU") would be revamped as a new office. The Policy Innovation and Co-ordination Office ("PICO") so established by the Government commenced operation on 1 April 2018. On the other hand, there are comments that the principal function of CPU was to conduct surveys and analyses on public sentiment and opinion for the reference of the senior government management in policy formulation; and the disconnect with public sentiment and opinion of certain decisions made by the Government in recent years in dealing with the disturbances arising from the opposition to the proposed legislative amendments and the epidemic may be LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5549 related to the CPU being revamped. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether the work of PICO includes assisting the senior government management in gauging public sentiment and opinion; if so, of the major accomplishments of PICO's work in this regard since its establishment; if not, the Government's strategies in place to better address public sentiment and opinion in the decision making process, so as to enhance the standard of its governance; and

(2) whether it has formulated key performance indicators for the work of PICO; if so, whether PICO's performance has met the targets; if the targets have not been met, of the details, and the improvement measures in place?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Chinese): President,

(1) In order for the Government to take up new roles and adopt a new governance style as proposed by the Chief Executive in her first Policy Address in October 2017, the Policy Innovation and Co-ordination Office ("PICO") has, since its establishment in April 2018, focused on enhancing policy coordination of cross-bureaux issues and providing "first-stop and one-stop" project coordination services as one of its priority work areas. PICO is also responsible for coordinating the Chief Executive's annual Policy Address, and providing secretariat service and research support to the Chief Executive's Council of Advisers on Innovation and Strategic Development for the latter to discuss and map out Hong Kong's future development and strategies for driving innovation. In addition, PICO conducts exchanges with research institutions and think tanks on different public policies and issues, and promotes evidence-based public policy research through the Public Policy Research ("PPR") Funding Scheme and the Strategic Public Policy Research ("SPPR") Funding Scheme.

Strengthening governance is a complex task. While it is the duty of the Government to listen and respond to public views, a responsible government should also balance public views with policy and other 5550 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

considerations, and in light of the actual circumstances, adopt various means and measures to achieve policy outcomes which are in the best interests of the community. As remarked by the Chief Executive, chaos had plagued Hong Kong over the past two years, making it difficult for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") Government to implement effective policies. The Chief Executive considered that the fundamental reason lay in the failure of the community as a whole in fully and faithfully implementing "One Country, Two Systems". Nor had timely action been taken to restore order from chaos, safeguard national security and implement the principle of "patriots administering Hong Kong". The community has inadequate understanding of "One Country, Two Systems" and some people's awareness of the "One Country" principle has to be raised. Besides, ill-intentioned people deliberately misled the public about the relationship between the Central Government and HKSAR, subjecting Hong Kong to unprecedented severe challenges over the past two years. To enable Hong Kong to have a real recovery, it is necessary to improve the institutions for implementation of "One Country, Two Systems". The two major decisions made by the Central Authorities, i.e. the enactment and implementation of the National Security Law in Hong Kong in June last year and the approval of the amended Annex I and Annex II to the Basic Law to improve the electoral system of HKSAR in March this year, have not only restored stability in society and put the implementation of "One Country, Two Systems" back on the right track, but also provided a favourable environment for the HKSAR Government to enhance administration and efficacy of governance and better perform the duties of policy formulation and explanation.

(2) Since its establishment, PICO has accomplished a number of tasks according to the set objectives. These include reviewing existing legislation to help bureaux remove red tape, and conducting policy research on cross-bureaux issues to formulate solutions or legislative amendment proposals. In the past three years, PICO has also provided "first-stop and one-stop" consultation and coordination services for 24 projects. In addition, PICO has coordinated the Chief Executive's annual Policy Address and approved about 30 research projects under the PPR Funding Scheme and the SPPR LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5551

Funding Scheme each year. Apart from the above mentioned work, PICO has also assisted in implementing specific major or innovative projects as directed by the Chief Executive, such as the Employment Support Scheme under the second round of the Anti-epidemic Fund in 2020.

PICO will continue to carry out the above work and provide policy research and coordination support for cross-bureaux issues selected by the Chief Executive and senior echelon of the Government.

Confirmed cases of Coronavirus Disease 2019

12. DR PIERRE CHAN (in Chinese): President, regarding the confirmed cases of Coronavirus Disease 2019 ("COVID-19"), will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of cases since January 2020 in which healthcare personnel and allied health professionals (i.e. (i) doctors, (ii) nurses, (iii) physiotherapists, (iv) occupational therapists, (v) clinical psychologists, (vi) dietitians, (vii) audiologists, (viii) optometrists, (ix) orthoptists, (x) speech therapists, (xi) pharmacists, (xii) dispensers, (xiii) radiographers, (xiv) medical laboratory technologists, (xv) medical social workers, (xvi) prosthetist-orthotists and (xvii) podiatrists) as well as (xviii) support personnel working in (a) public hospitals, (b) the Department of Health, (c) private hospitals, (d) private clinics and (e) residential care homes for the elderly and for persons with disabilities were suspected of having contracted COVID-19 arising out of and in the course of their employment, and set out in the table below a breakdown of such number by their occupation and the type of organizations in which they worked;

Occupation (a) (b) (c) (d) (e) (i) …… (xviii)

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(2) whether the Labour Department ("LD") has received employers' reports on the confirmed cases mentioned in (1); if so, among such reports, of the number of those in which compensation claims were lodged under the Employees' Compensation Ordinance (Cap. 282), together with the following information on such cases:

(i) the number of cases of successful claims,

(ii) the number of cases of unsuccessful claims and the main reason(s) for the claims being unsuccessful, and

(iii) the assistance provided by the Government for those employees whose compensation claims were unsuccessful; and

(3) of the number of cases since 1 October 2020 in which employees lodged compensation claims under Cap. 282 for contracting COVID-19 arising out of and in the course of their employment, together with the following information on such cases:

(i) a breakdown of the number of cases by the industry in which the employees concerned were engaged,

(ii) the number of cases reported by the employers,

(iii) the number and percentage of cases of successful claims,

(iv) the number of cases of unsuccessful claims and the main reason(s) for the claims being unsuccessful, and

(v) the assistance provided by the Government for those employees whose compensation claims were unsuccessful?

SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, in consultation with the Food and Health Bureau, my reply to Member's question is as follows:

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5553

(1) and (2)

For employees who have contracted diseases (including COVID-19) but the infections have not arisen out of and in the course of employment, and the employees have been granted sick leaves supported by appropriate medical certificates(1), the employers should pay the employees sickness allowance in accordance with the Employment Ordinance and the relevant employment contract terms. These cases are not required to be reported to the Labour Department ("LD") in accordance with the Employees' Compensation Ordinance.

During January 2020 to 21 April 2021, among the employees' compensation claims with employees suspected to have contracted COVID-19 while at work received by LD, 56 claims involved employees of the public hospitals, including 3 doctors, 23 nurses, 3 allied health professionals and 27 staff members from the support or executive ranks. Besides, there were three cases which involved staff members of the Department of Health, including one doctor and two ambulancemen.

During the period, LD also recorded 12 cases reported by private hospitals or private clinics involving 7 nurses, 2 allied health professionals and 3 supporting workers; while care homes for the elderly and people with disabilities reported 47 cases to LD, including 4 nurses, 33 care workers and 10 supporting workers.

Out of the 118 reported cases mentioned above, employers in 15 cases admitted the liability to employees' compensation and out of which one case was settled after the employer had made payment in accordance with the Certificate of Compensation Assessment issued by the Commissioner for Labour. Besides, employees in 17 cases withdrew their claims or did not pursue further with their claims owing to various reasons. LD has been actively following up on the remaining 86 cases.

(1) An appropriate medical certificate refers to that issued by a registered medical practitioner, a registered Chinese medicine practitioner or a registered dentist. It should specify the number of days on which, and the nature of the sickness or injury on account of which, the employee is unfit for work. 5554 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

(3) During 1 October 2020 to 21 April 2021, LD had received a total of 324 employees' compensation claims with employees suspected to have contracted COVID-19 in employment. The breakdown of reported claims by industry is as follows:

Number of Industry Compensation Claims Public Administration, Social and Personal Services 140 Finance and Insurance, Real Estate, Professional 57 and Business Services Food and Beverage Services 20 Import/Export, Wholesale and Retail Trades, 19 Accommodation Services Transportation, Storage, Postal and Courier 15 Services, Information and Communications Construction 54 Manufacturing 10 Others 9 Total 324*

Note:

* Out of the 118 reported cases in parts (1) and (2) of the reply, 85 cases were reported during 1 October 2020 to 21 April 2021. These 85 reported cases are included in the 324 reported cases above.

Among these 324 reported cases, employers in 52 cases admitted the employees' compensation liability and out of which two cases were settled after the employers had made payments in accordance with the Certificate of Compensation Assessment issued by the Commissioner for Labour. Besides, employees in 59 cases withdrew their claims or did not pursue further with their claims owing to various reasons, and one case was subsequently confirmed that the employer did not have the liability to compensation under the Employees' Compensation Ordinance. LD has been actively taking follow-up actions for the remaining 212 cases.

LD has been proactively following up on employees' compensation claims with employees suspected to have contracted COVID-19 in employment based on information published by the Centre for LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5555

Health Protection. A note on employees' rights and protection under the Employees' Compensation Ordinance, together with the contact means of LD, has been distributed through hospitals to all confirmed COVID-19 patients. In case of disputes over employees' compensation cases, LD will obtain medical reports and other relevant information and provide its views to the employees and employers concerned on the likelihood of the cases being work injuries from the medical perspective and in accordance with the Employees' Compensation Ordinance. LD will remind the employers to comply with the relevant labour laws in the course of clarifying the work-relatedness of these reported cases. Injured employees may approach LD should they require any assistance. LD will take appropriate follow-up action according to the circumstances of individual cases.

Workers of the construction industry working after consuming alcohol

13. MR WILSON OR (in Chinese): President, it is learnt that some workers of the construction industry have the habit of consuming alcoholic drinks while at work or during lunch. As their judgment may be impaired under the influence of alcohol, industrial accidents are more prone to occur. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of industrial accidents in the construction industry and, among them, the number of those the cause of which was suspected or ascertained upon investigation to be related to the workers concerned being under the influence of alcohol, in each of the past five years; and

(2) whether the existing legislation or relevant guidelines prohibit workers of the construction industry from working after they have consumed alcohol; if not, whether it will, by drawing reference from the practice of the governments of other places of imposing penalties on workers who work after consuming alcohol and their employers, enact the relevant legislation and set the relevant policies, so as to enhance industrial safety of the construction industry?

5556 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, my reply to the question raised by the Member is as follows:

(1) The number of industrial accidents in the construction industry from 2016 to 2020 is set out in Annex.

For the industrial accidents that happened at the construction industry during this period and investigated by the Labour Department ("LD"), we did not find the workers concerned were under the influence of alcohol.

(2) The existing occupational safety and health ("OSH") legislation does not have specific provisions to prohibit construction workers from working after consuming alcohol, or from consuming alcohol at work. However, the general duty provisions of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance (Cap. 59) and the Occupational Safety and Health Ordinance (Cap. 509) provide that proprietors/employers shall, so far as reasonably practicable, provide necessary instruction and supervision to ensure the safety and health of employees at work. Pursuant to the provisions, contractors of the construction industry shall formulate and implement management policy to prevent the influence of alcohol on the OSH of employees and workplaces, including securing the cooperation of employees to implement the relevant policy. The maximum penalty for breaching the above requirements is a fine of $500,000 and imprisonment for six months.

As far as employees are concerned, the above legislation also requires employees at work to, so far as reasonably practicable, take care of the OSH of themselves and other persons, and cooperate with their employers or other persons to ensure the OSH of employees on construction sites. Hence, construction employees have the responsibility to ensure that they are not influenced by alcohol at work so as to prevent accidents. The maximum penalty for breaching the above requirements is a fine of $50,000 and imprisonment for six months.

To help employers and employees understand their OSH obligations to prevent the influence of alcohol in workplaces, the Occupational LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5557

Safety and Health Council and LD issued "工作場所酒精和藥物的 良好管理" (Chinese version only) and "Safety Handbook for Construction Site Workers" etc. respectively. These publications help contractors and employees comply with the relevant requirements in the OSH legislation, and understand the influence of alcohol on the safety and health at work so as to prevent the occurrence of accidents.

During routine inspections and accident investigations, the LD officers will pay attention to whether contractors and employees at construction sites comply with the above requirements. LD will take enforcement actions if there is violation of the OSH legislation.

Annex

Table 1 Industrial accidents(1) in the construction industry

2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Fatal cases 10 22 14 16 18 Non-fatal cases 3 710 3 880 3 527 2 931 2 514 Total 3 720 3 902 3 541 2 947 2 532

Note:

(1) Industrial accidents refer to injuries and deaths arising from industrial activities in industrial undertakings as defined under the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance.

Research and development centres and parks for innovation and technology

14. MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Chinese): President, at present, there are five research and development ("R&D") centres (namely Automotive Platforms and Application Systems R&D Centre, Hong Kong Applied Science and Technology Research Institute, Hong Kong Research Institute of Textiles and Apparel, Logistics and Supply Chain MultiTech R&D Centre, as well as Nano and Advanced Materials Institute) under the purview of Innovation and Technology Commission. In the financial years from 2015-2016 to 2018-2019, the total operating cost and total R&D expenditure of such centres exceeded $1.15 billion 5558 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 and $2.3 billion respectively, but their total income from commercialization of R&D results ("commercialization") during the same period was only around $190 million. On the other hand, the Governments of Hong Kong and Shenzhen are jointly developing a Shenzhen/Hong Kong Innovation and Technology Co-operation Zone, and the Batch 1 development of its park in Hong Kong―the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Innovation and Technology Park ("HSITP") located at the Lok Ma Chau Loop will soon commence. In the light of the results of a related consultancy study, HSITP will accord priority to the development of the following six major R&D areas: healthcare technologies, big data and artificial intelligence, robotics, new material, microelectronics, and financial technology ("the six major areas"). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the total commercialization income of the five R&D centres in the past two financial years; whether the Government last year reviewed and improved the operation of those R&D centres as well as formulated new measures to enhance their effectiveness in commercialization;

(2) of the Government's considerations in and justifications for determining the six major areas for HSITP; given that the first-batch buildings in HSITP will only be completed in phases from 2024 to 2027, whether the Government will, before then, continue to conduct reviews and studies on the six major areas so as to ensure that such positioning suits the latest situation;

(3) whether it has reviewed the commercialization experience of the five R&D centres and made reference to the relevant practices in other countries/regions in order to formulate more effective commercialization strategies and quantitative key performance indicators for HSITP;

(4) whether it has formulated plans and set quantitative objectives for the work on attracting large-scale Mainland and international enterprises/organizations to apply for admission to HSITP; whether it will regularly make public the names of the enterprises/ organizations which have newly been admitted to HSITP and the numbers of new jobs to be created by them; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5559

(5) how the six major areas for HSITP are expected to promote the development of Hong Kong's financial services industry, and what synergy effects will be created?

SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Chinese): President, a consolidated reply to different parts of the question is provided as follows:

(1) The Government has set up five research and development ("R&D") centres to drive and coordinate applied R&D in selected focus areas. The five R&D centres are:

(a) Automotive Platforms and Application Systems R&D Centre ("APAS");

(b) Hong Kong Applied Science and Technology Research Institute ("ASTRI");

(c) Hong Kong Research Institute of Textiles and Apparel ("HKRITA");

(d) Logistics and Supply Chain MultiTech R&D Centre ("LSCM"); and

(e) Nano and Advanced Materials Institute ("NAMI").

The R&D centres play an important role in creating a vibrant innovation and technology ("I&T") ecosystem. They act as a focal point for technology collaboration among the Government, industry, academia and research sectors.

As the R&D centres are platforms for coordinating applied research and facilitating technology transfer to the industry, from 2017-2018 onwards, the Government implemented a new indicator on the level of industry income of the R&D centres, in order to gauge the level of support of the industry in their work. The indicator mainly covers the sponsorship and commercialization income on R&D projects contributed by the industry and a target of 30% has been adopted.

5560 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

The level of industry income of the R&D centres in 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 meets the target and is tabled as follows:

Level of Industry Income

2018-2019 2019-2020 APAS 49% 44% ASTRI 36% 33% HKRITA 34% 79% LSCM 46% 94% NAMI 55% 47%

Commercialization income includes contract service income, licensing fees and royalties. In addition to conducting applied R&D in key areas, the R&D centres also work closely with the industry to carry out applied R&D projects that suit the needs of the industry, and to transfer technologies to the industry and strive to commercialize the R&D outcomes. In 2018-2019 and 2019-2020, the commercialization income of the five R&D centres are listed as follows:

Commercialization Income ($ million)

2018-2019 2019-2020 ASTRI 21.16 25.88 NAMI 17.11 12.25 LSCM 10.09 15.95 HKRITA 10.98 29.30 APAS 1.87 2.58 Total: 61.21 85.96

The commercialization income of the five R&D centres in 2019-2020 has increased by about 40% compared to that in 2018-2019. Due to the social incidents and the outbreak of the novel coronavirus disease in 2019-2020, it was not easy for commercialization income to increase.

In addition, the R&D centres also conducts R&D projects relating to government departments. The related R&D outcomes can help participating departments improve their service quality and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5561

operational efficiency. By participating in the Public Sector Trial Scheme, the R&D centres will put R&D outcomes to trials in government departments and public sector organizations, thereby obtain suggestions from users on improving products and services and improve their scientific research outcomes so as to increase the opportunities for realization and commercialization of their R&D outcomes.

On the whole, the R&D centres have received more income other than industry sponsorship in recent years, including contract service income, licensing fees and royalties. Each of the centres has also established their reputation and has become a reliable R&D partner internationally, with the Mainland and locally in the technology fields they belong to. Facing the opportunities brought by the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"), the R&D centres will actively promote their R&D outcomes, seek cooperation and development opportunities in Greater Bay Area, and facilitate the commercialization of their outcomes.

(2) to (4)

The Government is taking forward in full swing the development of the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Innovation and Technology Park ("HSITP") located in the Lok Ma Chau Loop. Upon its full development, HSITP will provide a gross floor area of 1.2 million sq m and become Hong Kong's largest-ever I&T platform. The vision of HSITP is to become the world's knowledge hub and I&T centre, converging technology enterprises, R&D institutions and higher education institutions from local, the Mainland and overseas, which can connect upstream and midstream research to downstream market, further enhancing the collaboration among the industry, academic and research sectors. High value-added processes including R&D, prototyping, product design and testing can be conducted at HSITP.

To plan for the development of HSITP, the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Innovation and Technology Park Limited ("HSITPL") conducted the Master Planning Study and the Business Model and Business 5562 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Planning Study. Taking into account of the relevant findings of the consultancy studies, HSITP will focus on the development of six R&D areas, including healthcare technologies, big data and artificial intelligence ("AI"), robotics, new material, microelectronics, and financial technology ("fintech"). In researching for the focus R&D areas, the consultant has taken into account factors such as the global trend of key emerging technologies, Hong Kong's advantages, regional demand and innovation cost, etc.

Currently, HSTIPL is pressing ahead with the construction works of Batch 1 development, in which the primary goal is to complete the first eight buildings in phases from 2024 to 2027. Regarding the key performance indicators ("KPIs") for HSITP in the next phase, HSITPL will discuss with the Government according to its stage of development, taking into account the dynamics of the I&T market and making reference to the KPIs of the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation and the Hong Kong Cyberport Management Company Limited, where appropriate. However, as HSITPL is not a R&D centre, their positioning, functions, and organization are not identical. Therefore, the strategy and experience of the R&D centres in commercialization may not be applicable.

(5) In consultation with the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, the reply to part (5) of the question is as follows.

The Government is committed to making good use of Hong Kong's position as an international financial centre in providing convenient cross-boundary financial support measures and financial support measures that meet international standards to enterprises (especially those which seek to tap into the international market or attract international capital). These will incentivize the setting up of I&T enterprises with international competitiveness in HSITP.

The Government also hopes to support the development of I&T start-ups to promote the sustainable development of local financial services industry. For example, the Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited has reformed its listing regime to allow the listing of new economy companies, including high growth and innovative LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5563

enterprises which have weighted voting rights structures possessed by individuals and pre-profit/pre-revenue biotechnology companies, subject to appropriate safeguards on investor protection. The new listing regime is gradually delivering results, with around 50 companies successfully listed in Hong Kong, raising a total of over $500 billion of funds through initial public offerings. Furthermore, the Government established the Limited Partnership Fund ("LPF") regime in August 2020 to allow private equity or venture capital funds to set up through this regime and operate in Hong Kong, which helps channel capital into start-ups in the I&T field. Over 200 funds have been set up under the LPF regime in eight months. It is expected that the HSITP's development vision and wide-ranging fields will attract many investors.

The financial services sector in Hong Kong can even reinforce the position of Hong Kong as an international fintech hub through the HSITP's focused R&D areas, which cover fintech, big data and AI, to develop advance technologies in blockchain, cybersecurity, data analysis, etc. Enterprises and start-ups in other areas can also capitalize on Hong Kong's position as a world financial capital market centre in fundraising and establishing connections with financing channels, providing opportunities for business development and bringing in vast demand for financial services. With the HSITP's advantage in converging financial services and I&T in Hong Kong, it is envisaged to build a strong fintech ecosystem.

Earnings of youths in Hong Kong

15. MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Chinese): President, will the Government inform this Council of the average monthly employment earnings (at constant 2018 dollars) of full-time employees across different birth cohorts (as set out in the first column of the table below) when they reached the ages listed in the table below, broken down by selected educational attainment (i.e. (i) upper secondary educated, (ii) post-secondary non-degree educated, (iii) bachelor's degree educated, and (iv) postgraduate educated) (set out in tables of the same format as the table below)?

5564 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Educational attainment: ______

Earnings ($) of cohort members when Birth Year in which the their ages reached cohort cohort aged 20 to 24 20 to 24 25 to 29 30 to 34 35 to 39 1970-1974 1994 1975-1979 1999 1980-1984 2004 1985-1989 2009 - 1990-1994 2014 - - 1995-1999 2019 - - -

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President, based on the data obtained from the General Household Survey conducted by the Census and Statistics Department, average monthly employment earnings of full-time employees (at constant 2018 dollars, excluding foreign domestic helpers) of different cohorts by selected educational attainment are provided below:

(i) Full-time employees(1) with upper secondary educational attainment

Year in Average monthly employment earnings(2) Cohorts which the of the cohort concerned when born in cohort aged their ages reached (HK$) 20 to 24 20 to 24 25 to 29 30 to 34 35 to 39 1970-1974 1994 12,100 14,900 18,400 18,600 1975-1979 1999 11,700 14,600 16,500 17,900 1980-1984 2004 10,600 13,000 15,600 19,300 1985-1989 2009 10,700 13,700 18,200 - 1990-1994 2014 11,900 15,600 - - 1995-1999 2019 13,500 - - -

(ii) Full-time employees(1) with post-secondary non-degree educational attainment

Year in Average monthly employment earnings(2) Cohorts which the of the cohort concerned when born in cohort aged their ages reached (HK$) 20 to 24 20 to 24 25 to 29 30 to 34 35 to 39 1970-1974 1994 14,800 20,000 24,800 26,300 1975-1979 1999 14,300 18,200 21,600 23,600 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5565

Year in Average monthly employment earnings(2) Cohorts which the of the cohort concerned when born in cohort aged their ages reached (HK$) 20 to 24 20 to 24 25 to 29 30 to 34 35 to 39 1980-1984 2004 11,600 15,700 19,100 24,400 1985-1989 2009 11,600 15,100 21,400 - 1990-1994 2014 12,200 17,100 - - 1995-1999 2019 14,400 - - -

(iii) Full-time employees(1) with undergraduate educational attainment

Year in Average monthly employment earnings(2) Cohorts which the of the cohort concerned when born in cohort aged their ages reached (HK$) 20 to 24 20 to 24 25 to 29 30 to 34 35 to 39 1970-1974 1994 19,400 26,500 38,300 45,900 1975-1979 1999 17,100 24,600 37,300 40,000 1980-1984 2004 14,300 23,700 31,000 41,100 1985-1989 2009 16,900 21,700 33,700 - 1990-1994 2014 16,200 24,300 - - 1995-1999 2019 18,000 - - -

(iv) Full-time employees(1) with post-graduate educational attainment

Year in Average monthly employment earnings(2) Cohorts which the of the cohort concerned when born in cohort aged their ages reached (HK$) 20-24 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 1970-1974 1994 26,100 34,700 47,100 65,300 1975-1979 1999 21,100 29,300 47,200 51,400 1980-1984 2004 19,600 31,700 43,000 59,400 1985-1989 2009 19,900 27,100 46,000 - 1990-1994 2014 18,300 29,800 - - 1995-1999 2019 19,400 - - -

Notes:

(1) Refer to employees who work at least 35 hours, or those who work less than 35 hours due to vacation during the seven days before enumeration.

(2) The average monthly employment earnings are easily affected by extreme values in the survey sample, more so when reckoned for higher-end workers. They should therefore be interpreted with caution, in particular when they are compared over time. 5566 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

COVID-19 virus testing services

16. MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Chinese): President, to cope with the Coronavirus Disease 2019 ("COVID-19") epidemic, the Government has set up distribution points at 47 general outpatient clinics under the Hospital Authority ("outpatient clinics"), 121 post offices and 20 MTR stations for members of the public to obtain deep throat saliva specimen collection packs ("collection packs"). Members of the public may return the deep throat saliva specimens ("specimens") collected by themselves to designated collection points at specified hours for the COVID-19 virus testing ("testing"). In addition, the Government provides testing services for persons of target groups. Some members of the public have complained that the collection packs distributed at the distribution points have been in severe shortage, especially in the Islands District. Regarding the testing services, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the criteria adopted by the authorities for determining (i) the locations of the distribution points, and (ii) the specified hours for collecting the specimens;

(2) of the current average daily total number of collection packs distributed at the distribution points in each District Council district, and the ratio of such number to the population of the district concerned; whether it will, in districts with a severe shortage of collection packs, expeditiously set up additional distribution points and increase the quantities of collection packs for distribution;

(3) in respect of the past 30 days, of the average daily (i) time taken for each of the distribution points at outpatient clinics and post offices to finish distribution of all collection packs after commencement of distribution, and (ii) waiting time for members of the public at the distribution point concerned (set out in a table);

(4) in respect of each of the distribution points at MTR stations in the past 30 days, of the average daily (i) number of collection packs supplied, and (ii) time taken to finish distribution of all collection packs after commencement of distribution (set out in a table); given that at such distribution points there are often long queues for obtaining collection packs and distribution of all collection packs finishes momentarily, whether the authorities will increase the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5567

quantities of collection packs for distribution and improve the distribution procedure;

(5) since the commencement of the authorities' services of arranging on-site testing as well as distribution and collection of collection packs for construction site workers and other target groups, of the testing coverage rate and the number of confirmed cases in respect of each group, and whether it will consider designating new target groups; if so, of the details and timetable; if not, the reasons for that; and

(6) of Hong Kong's current maximum testing capacity, and whether it can increase the testing capacity?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, virus testing is an integral part of our anti-epidemic strategies. The Government's existing strategy aims to implement and expand the coverage of various testing measures, including requiring specified persons of high risk to undergo compulsory testing on a mandatory basis, arranging targeted groups to undergo testing on an obligatory basis, and encouraging more members of the public to undergo testing on a voluntary basis.

With regard to Mr CHAN Han-pan's question, our reply is as follows:

(1) to (4)

The Government has all along been providing convenient testing services to the public through various channels to encourage and facilitate members of the public to undergo testing, so as to achieve the objective of "early identification, early isolation and early treatment" and cut the transmission chains as early as possible.

Starting from late July 2020, to facilitate individuals who perceive themselves as having a higher risk of exposure or experience mild discomfort to undergo free testing, they can collect and return specimen bottles at 22 general outpatient clinics ("GOPCs") of the Hospital Authority ("HA"). HA has for several times increased the number of GOPCs distributing specimen collection packs, extended the distribution hours of specimen collection packs and installed 5568 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

multiple vending machines. Moreover, since end-November and early-December, more distribution points of specimen collection packs are set up at post offices and MTR stations to further facilitate members of the public to obtain specimen collection packs.

Currently, there are 188 distribution points in 18 districts offering free specimen collection packs. Members of the public can obtain deep throat saliva specimen collection packs at 47 HA GOPCs, 121 post offices or vending machines set up at 20 MTR stations for free, and return their specimens at designated hours to the 47 HA GOPCs, 13 clinics of the Department of Health or 23 specimen collection points at Government premises.

Due to the surge of demand for regular testing from staff of catering business, scheduled premises and construction sector within a short period of time, the number of specimen collection packs distributed was relatively high in late February this year. In view of the surge in demand, we have set up two more community testing centres in March 2021; and the number of tests available for appointments at community testing centres has been increased from the original over 20 000 each day to more than 26 000 and 32 000 in late February and early March respectively, and further increased to more than 38 000 per day now, with more manpower deployed to serve the public. In addition, the Government have worked with testing operators to increase about 20 mobile specimen collection stations in a number of districts to divert the demand of different sectors.

Since last July, the number of specimen collection packs distributed in Hong Kong has been increased substantially. In April 2021, a daily average of around 33 000 specimen collection packs were distributed by the Government, equivalent to 27 times the number last July and August during the third wave of the epidemic (a daily average of around 1 200 packs). Over the past few months, the number of specimen bottles collected by the Government is around half of the amount distributed. The Government calls on the public and organizations to refrain from collecting more sets of packs than needed so that others in need can also obtain specimen collection packs for testing.

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Starting from 29 April, under the relaxed social distancing measures under "vaccine bubble", staff of catering businesses operating under Types C and D and six types of scheduled premises (namely bars or pubs; clubs or nightclubs; bathhouses; party rooms; karaoke establishments; and mahjong-tin kau premises) who are unfit to receive vaccination because of health reasons must submit a declaration form and present a medical certificate to the employer, and undergo a nucleic acid test using combined nasal and throat swabs every seven days. In other words, they have to undergo testing and specimen collection by combined nasal and throat swabs at community testing centres or mobile specimen collection stations, and they cannot use specimen collection packs to self-collect deep throat saliva specimens, so as to enable individuals who perceive themselves as having a higher risk of exposure or experience mild discomfort to obtain specimen collection packs for testing.

(5) For targeted testing, the Government continues to arrange testing for targeted groups based on risk assessment. At present, testing is being provided continuously for targeted groups including staff and personnel working in markets, licensed hawkers, practitioners of cold stores, designated frontline employees of Kwai Tsing Container Terminals. New targeted groups including foreign domestic helpers, construction site workers, couriers (including takeaway food couriers) and security and guarding personnel have been added. A total of 1 710 000 tests were carried out under testing for targeted groups from 15 November 2020 to 28 April 2021, equivalent to a daily average of around 10 400 tests with 0.01% tested positive. The Government will regularly review the coverage and frequency of targeted group testing with reference to the latest epidemic risk assessment.

(6) The Government has been stepping up surveillance and testing efforts in a multi-pronged approach. Through the efforts of the Government and the cooperation of the agencies, the current maximum daily testing capacity of public and private laboratories has been substantially increased to approximately 100 000 tests per day (without sample pooling). Through various channels of specimen collection, the Government can collect samples from a maximum of about 80 000 members of the public for testing each day. The Government will continue to proactively leverage the 5570 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

current testing capability to expand further the scale of testing in the community, giving full play to the strategy that all specified persons will be compulsorily tested, while making testing services available as far as possible to targeted groups which should be tested and people who would like to be tested, in order to identify cases as early as possible and cut the transmission chains in the community.

Promoting Regtech adoption in the banking sector

17. MR CHAN CHUN-YING (in Chinese): President, in November last year, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority ("HKMA") announced a two-year roadmap to promote Regtech adoption in the Hong Kong banking sector ("the roadmap"), with a view to accelerating the use of technology by the banking sector for enhancing risk management and compliance. HKMA has indicated that it will roll out a series of events and initiatives in the coming two years, including hosting a large-scale event, launching a Regtech Adoption Index, publishing relevant practice guides, creating a Regtech Knowledge Hub, and establishing a Regtech skills framework. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the implementation timetable for the aforesaid events and initiatives, as well as the amount of expenditure and manpower involved;

(2) whether it has set quantitative performance indicators for the roadmap; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(3) whether, apart from establishing the Regtech skills framework, it has formulated other long-term plans for nurturing Regtech talents; if so, of the details; and

(4) whether HKMA has any plans to collaborate with the Innovation and Technology Bureau in the coming three years to support local fintech start-ups to conduct research and development on technologies that dovetail with the Regtech needs of the banking sector; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

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SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President, the adoption of Regtech can assist the financial services sector to cope with the changing operation mode and relevant regulatory measures, and strengthen risk management and regulatory compliance. To develop a more vibrant Regtech ecosystem, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority ("HKMA") published a whitepaper entitled "Transforming Risk Management and Compliance: Harnessing the Power of Regtech" in November last year, and launched a two-year roadmap to facilitate Regtech adoption by the banking industry through a series of promotional events and development initiatives.

After consulting HKMA, my response to Mr CHAN's questions is as follows:

(1) HKMA launched the "Global Regtech Challenge" on 25 March this year to enhance the interaction and communication between banks in Hong Kong and global Regtech firms, and encourage them to put forth solutions that help solve common risk management and regulatory compliance pain points experienced by banks. A judging panel is currently evaluating the submissions from participants and the final result will be announced during a Regtech event to be held on 30 June this year. HKMA has invited leaders from the banking and technology sectors to join the event and share their vision for Regtech development and application, with a view to raising the Hong Kong banking industry's awareness of the potential of Regtech adoption. In addition, HKMA plans to publish the "Regtech Adoption Practice Guides" series and create a "Regtech Knowledge Hub" in the second half of this year to further facilitate Regtech adoption and encourage information sharing amongst banks. The expenses and staff costs associated with the aforementioned events and initiatives have been incorporated into the HKMA's administrative budget.

(2) HKMA is developing a "Regtech Adoption Index" to quantify and monitor the overall status of Regtech adoption in the banking industry. It can also gauge the effectiveness of the two-year roadmap in facilitating Regtech adoption.

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(3) To nurture Regtech talent, HKMA is developing a Regtech skills framework to identify the current skills gaps in this aspect in Hong Kong for reference by banks for training purposes. It is expected to be completed by Q3 this year. In addition, HKMA is working with the banking industry and professional bodies to develop an Enhanced Competency Framework covering both Fintech and Regtech, with a view to assisting the professional development of new and existing practitioners of the Regtech sector.

(4) The Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau and HKMA have been working with the Innovation and Technology Bureau to promote Fintech development. We are assisting the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer in promoting the use of "iAM Smart" by the financial industry as one of the Regtech infrastructure. HKMA is also studying the feasibility of a corporate version of "iAM Smart" and Commercial Data Interchange. The latter allows small and medium-sized enterprises to share their commercial data with financial institutions, so that financial institutions will better understand their needs and be in a better position to provide them with tailored financial services while complying with the necessary regulatory requirements. In respect of supporting Regtech development by the Fintech sector, the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau launched the Fintech Proof-of-Concept ("PoC") Subsidy Scheme in February this year to encourage financial institutions to partner with Fintech firms (including Regtech companies) to conduct PoC projects on innovative financial services. In addition, HKMA is considering enhancing its Fintech Supervisory Sandbox by providing "through-train" approval and funding arrangements for promising Fintech solutions, thereby expediting the market launch of innovative financial products. Cyberport, Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks and Innovation and Technology Commission also provide a series of initiatives to support the development of local Fintech firms. These include the provision of financial subsidies, sharing of market research and the matching with potential corporate users and investors.

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Handling defective drainage systems in buildings

18. MR PAUL TSE (in Chinese): President, the Government plans to launch in May this year a $1-billion Building Drainage System Repair Subsidy Scheme ("the Subsidy Scheme") to subsidize owners of buildings aged 40 or above (quite a number of which being "three-nil buildings") to repair the defective drainage systems in such buildings. The owners of such buildings may take the initiative to submit applications under the Subsidy Scheme. The Buildings Department will also select buildings with outstanding statutory orders relating to common drains and employ contractors to carry out the required works on behalf of the owners concerned. Regarding the handling of defective drainage systems in buildings, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) as the Government expects that investigation or repair works for the common drainage systems of 300 eligible buildings will commence within this year, how many of those buildings are located in Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin districts respectively;

(2) in respect of those applications submitted under the Subsidy Scheme by owners on their own initiative, of the channels through which the public can learn about the progress and results of the various applications; the time normally taken to complete the vetting and approval of the applications as estimated by the Government; whether it has established a mechanism for owners whose applications have been rejected to lodge appeals;

(3) given that the common drains of quite a number of buildings in old districts such as Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin had been improperly altered when the units in the buildings were converted into sub-divided units ("SDUs"), thereby increasing the risk of epidemic spreading, whether the Government will exercise discretion to accept applications submitted by owners of buildings aged under 40 but with a lot of SDUs;

(4) whether the SDU households in three-nil buildings, upon discovery of seepage in the drainage systems of the buildings in which they reside, may take the initiative to request the Government to arrange, under the Subsidy Scheme, repair works for the drainage systems concerned;

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(5) in respect of those cases in which the relevant owners of building units have failed to restore, in accordance with statutory orders, their units which had been converted into SDUs in breach of regulations and the common drains which had been haphazardly connected, what policies the Government has put in place to eradicate the drain seepage problem concerned; and

(6) how the Government will promote the Subsidy Scheme to the community at this stage and after the commencement of the Subsidy Scheme?

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, to assist the public in dealing with defective drains amid the COVID-19 epidemic, the Government has recently obtained from the Legislative Council a funding of $1 billion to launch the Building Drainage System Repair Subsidy Scheme ("DRS") to subsidize the investigation, repair, rectification and/or upgrading works of the drainage systems of old residential or composite buildings. The scheme has been implemented since 1 May 2021.

In consultation with the Buildings Department ("BD") and the ("URA"), the Development Bureau provides a consolidated reply as follows:

(1) Our aim is to commence investigation or repair works under DRS for the common drains of 300 old buildings within this year. Applications for DRS will be accepted on a "per-building" basis. DRS covers two categories of buildings, including eligible buildings of which owners wish to organize the works by themselves (viz. Category 1 buildings) and eligible buildings with outstanding statutory orders issued by BD in relation to defective common drains yet the relevant owners are unable to organize the required works by themselves (viz. Category 2 buildings). BD will actively select Category 2 buildings and exercise its statutory power to arrange default works consultants and government contractors to carry out the requisite works in default of the owners concerned. BD will seek to recover the remaining balance of the cost involved from the owners after deducting the subsidy under DRS.

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At the initial stage of the scheme, on the risk-based principle, regardless of Category 1 or Category 2 buildings mentioned above, we will focus on handling buildings with outstanding statutory orders relating to the common drains. According to records, there are in total around 20 such buildings that are eligible in Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin districts (viz. buildings aged 40 or above within the rateable value limit). As DRS just started accepting initial stage applications for Category 1 buildings across the territory, and BD is also selecting initial stage cases among Category 2 buildings across the territory, the number of buildings in Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin districts that may commence investigation or repair works in this year could not be ascertained now. At the later stage, we will allow other eligible buildings without outstanding statutory orders related to common drains to participate in DRS.

(2) Eligible building owners may make enquiries on DRS with URA, including the progress and results of their applications.

In the initial stage of DRS, URA estimates that an approval-in-principle could be granted in around two weeks after receiving the applications (including all necessary information). Upon completion of works, applicants may submit an application for the disbursement of subsidy to URA. The subsidy could be disbursed in a month's time upon receipt of all the necessary documents. Owners may lodge an appeal with URA if their DRS applications are rejected.

(3) Generally speaking, buildings that are of higher age are more prone to disrepair. To target these higher risk buildings and to ensure a prudent and orderly use of public fund, DRS will only accept applications from eligible buildings aged 40 or above as announced. Depending on the response to the scheme and the spending of the approved commitment, we may consider accepting applications from younger buildings at a later stage.

Owners facing financial difficulties but ineligible for the present scheme may consider applying for other existing subsidy/loan schemes without building age restrictions, such as the Building Maintenance Grant Scheme for Needy Owners and the Building 5576 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Safety Loan Scheme. Owners may browse the URA's Building Rehabilitation Platform website to learn more about the schemes, or call the URA's Building Maintenance Assistance Schemes Hotline 3188 1188 for enquiries.

(4) We understand that "three-nil" buildings(1) mostly comprise of aged buildings that lack building management and the owners are generally unable to organize building repair works among themselves. Under DRS, BD would actively select Category 2 buildings under reference above on a risk-basis and exercise its statutory power to arrange default works consultants and government contractors to carry out the works in default of the owners concerned and recover the remaining balance of the cost involved from owners after deducting the subsidy under DRS. Owners of "three-nil" buildings may contact BD should they encounter difficulties in complying with the statutory orders related to common drains. On the other hand, if tenants of subdivided flats in "three-nil" buildings find the drainage system inside their premises defective, they should immediately contact the owners and arrange qualified professionals or contractors to conduct inspections and repairs.

(5) The design, construction, erection, repair, alteration and removal of drainage systems for private buildings are regulated by the Buildings Ordinance ("BO") and its subsidiary legislations. For existing private buildings, owners who wish to erect, repair, alter and remove the drainage system in their premises must do so in accordance with the simplified requirements under the Minor Works Control System by appointing suitable contractors registered under BO so as to ensure that the drainage system in their premises are in compliance with the provisions of BO and the relevant regulations.

BD has all along been taking enforcement actions against defective drains through handling reports from the public, referrals from government departments, and carrying out large scale operations against target buildings. If drainage systems are found to be

(1) "Three-nil" buildings refer to buildings which do not have an owners' corporation or any form of owners'/residents' organizations, and have not engaged a property management company. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5577

defective, BD will take appropriate enforcement action in accordance to BO subject to case circumstances, including issuing drainage repair orders to require owners concerned to carry out the necessary repair works. If the owners fail to comply with the order without reasonable excuse, BD may instigate prosecution in accordance to BO or arrange a default works consultant and government contractor to carry out the specified works in default of the owners, the cost of which plus a supervision charge and surcharge will be recovered from the owners concerned afterwards. Apart from enforcement, the Government also provides technical and financial assistance to needy owners through various schemes. BD will also continue to organize various public education and publicity activities to heighten the public's awareness towards proper building maintenance.

(6) URA, as our partner in administering DRS, will proactively promote DRS. URA has reached out to building owners eligible for the initial stage of DRS in April 2021, informing them of the scheme and inviting them to attend an online briefing at the end of April. The relevant video has been uploaded onto the URA's Building Rehabilitation Platform for public viewing. Moreover, URA will also promote DRS on its Building Rehabilitation Platform, as well as through newspaper and radio advertisements.

Public markets and their sites

19. MR TONY TSE (in Chinese): President, as at April this year, the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD") managed and operated 97 public markets ("markets"). There were 18 markets with a stall vacancy rate of over 20% and six of them had a vacancy rate as high as 40% or above. Besides, among the six markets which have been closed, one has been demolished and the long-term uses of the remaining five have not been determined. The Government has left the Mong Kok Market idle for over a decade and not until recently has it decided to put it to a temporary use. Some members of the public have criticized that the Government has failed to properly manage the markets and the relevant sites, which is a waste of precious land resources. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

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(1) given that FEHD has planned to close the Choi Hung Road Market ("CHR Market") in March next year, and the relevant government departments have commenced a study on the overall planning and long-term development of the site of the Choi Hung Road Playground and Sports Centre (including the CHR Market), of the preliminary planned uses of the site and the implementation timetable; whether it will put the market to temporary uses before the implementation of its long-term uses;

(2) whether FEHD will consider closing more markets with utilization rates on the low side; for those markets which need to be retained, whether FEHD will, pursuant to the principle of "single site, multiple uses", group the existing stalls together so as to release some storeys or floor areas for other uses; if so, of the relevant plan and timetable; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) regarding those markets that have been or will be closed, whether it will set respective target time limits (e.g. three years and five years) for (i) leaving them vacant and (ii) studying their long-term uses, and in respect of those cases not meeting the targets, explain to this Council and the public why such targets have not been met?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, when a market is closed or consolidated and the premises or floor(s) are no longer required by the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD"), the vacated building or floor(s) will be handled in accordance with the established procedures of the Government. Based on the circumstances, FEHD will seek views from the relevant government departments, including the Government Property Agency, the Planning Department or the Lands Department, to formulate proposals for putting the premises to gainful long-term uses. The time required for formulating the proposal for long-term use of individual market may be longer due to various factors, such as judicial review lodged by members of the public on the zoning of land use, the time required for the Government to consult the stakeholders (including the relevant government departments and local groups, etc.) on the proposed long-term use, etc.

In consultation with the relevant departments, I provide a reply to the various parts of the question as follows:

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(1) FEHD plans to close the Choi Hung Road Market ("CHR Market") in 2021-2022, and collected the forms for confirmation of intention from all tenants in November 2020. CHR Market is expected to be closed in March 2022.

The Development Bureau commenced a study on the overall planning and long-term development of the Choi Hung Road Playground and Sports Centre (including the CHR Market) site in 2020, and is currently exploring options of land uses and facilities in collaboration with relevant departments under the principle of "single site, multiple use". The next step will be to analyse and evaluate the options. The study is expected to be completed in the first quarter of 2022.

(2) and (3)

The Government is conducting a comprehensive review of the utilization and development potential of existing markets, with a view to formulating appropriate development plans for meeting the policy objectives of optimizing land uses, benefiting the public and promoting district development. When considering whether an under-utilized market is to be closed or consolidated, FEHD will take into account various factors, including the vacancy rate, room for improvement, availability of fresh provision shops in the vicinity, possible cost-effectiveness of upgrading works and views of the relevant local community.

As stated above, when a market is closed or consolidated, FEHD will formulate proposals for putting the premises to gainful long-term uses in accordance with the established procedures of the Government.

FEHD tentatively plans to take forward the preparatory and consultation work for closure of another six markets. Views from other departments have been sought in accordance with established procedures to formulate proposals for putting the premises to gainful long-term uses. Details will be announced upon completion of the preparatory work.

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Policies and measures on rare diseases

20. MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Chinese): President, regarding the policies and measures on rare diseases, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) as the Chief Executive ("CE") indicated in the 2019 Policy Address that, in order to strengthen the support for patients with uncommon disorders, the Government planned to implement progressively a series of targeted measures, which included developing databases for individual uncommon disorders, enhancing public awareness of such disorders, strengthening the support of drug treatment for patients with such disorders through the Samaritan Fund and Community Care Fund Medical Assistance Programmes ("the two Medical Assistance Programmes"), reviewing the manpower support and deploying resources to help take care of the needs of patients, and promoting relevant technological development and clinical research, of the specific details, implementation timetables and performance indicators of the various measures;

(2) whether it will set up a steering committee on strategies for rare diseases to be tasked with formulating relevant strategies and plans as well as coordinating the work on implementing the various measures mentioned in (1); if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(3) whether it will launch a scheme of short-term trial of drugs for rare diseases under which (i) a panel, to be formed by clinical experts and representatives of the Hospital Authority ("HA"), patient groups and pharmaceutical companies, is to be tasked with selecting drugs for free trials by patients and drawing up relevant details (such as clinical criteria, trial periods and indicators of curative effect), and (ii) patients whose conditions have substantially improved after the end of the trial period are to be subsidized, through the existing drug treatment support mechanism, to continue the medication; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(4) whether it knows the respective average, longest and shortest time taken by the authorities in each of the past three years for vetting and approving the applications under the two Medical Assistance LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5581

Programmes; if such figures are not available, whether it will compile such statistics; of the measures in place to enhance the efficiency of vetting and approving applications;

(5) whether it knows, in respect of each type of drugs for rare diseases, (i) the total number of patients receiving subsidies under the two Medical Assistance Programmes and, among them, the respective numbers of those receiving full and partial subsidies, (ii) the average amount of subsidy received by each subsidized patient, (iii) the average amount of drug cost contributions made by each subsidized patient, and (iv) the total subsidy amount, in each of the past three years;

(6) as CE indicated in the 2020 Policy Address that the Government would, in accordance with the established mechanism, continue to increase the drugs covered by the two Medical Assistance Programmes and relax the clinical criteria for inclusion of drugs, of the details and latest progress of the relevant work;

(7) as HA indicated in September last year that it had, through the annual plan mechanism, sought additional resources from the Government for taking measures to cope with uncommon disorders, of the amount of the relevant funding and a breakdown by the uses; whether it has assessed if the additional resources concerned are sufficient for the provision of appropriate support for patients of rare diseases on a long-term basis; and

(8) given that the Hong Kong Genome Institute, which is wholly owned by the Government, is implementing a large-scale genome sequencing project called "Hong Kong Genome Project" ("HKGP"), the pilot phase of which is focusing on those patients with undiagnosed disorders and hereditary cancers as well as their family members, of the following details of the pilot phase of HKGP: (i) whether any rare diseases have been included in HKGP (if so, the names of the diseases), (ii) the progress of recruitment of patients and the screening arrangements, and (iii) the procedure for sample taking and genome sequencing?

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SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, my reply to the various parts of the question raised by Ms Elizabeth QUAT is as follows:

(1), (2) and (7)

The Government and the Hospital Authority ("HA") highly value the provision of sustainable, affordable and optimal treatment and care for all patients (including those with uncommon disorders) and have been working closely to discuss, formulate and review the policy support for patients with uncommon disorders, while maintaining communication with relevant stakeholders including patient groups to keep reviewing and enhancing relevant mechanisms and measures. Currently, mechanisms have been put in place to provide support for patients with uncommon disorders in various aspects, including clinical diagnosis and assessments, multidisciplinary care and rehabilitation services, introduction of new drugs, as well as subsiding drug treatment. We therefore do not see a need to set up a steering committee on strategies on top of existing mechanisms.

To strengthen support for patients with uncommon disorders, the Government and HA are progressively rolling out a series of measures. For instance, the Government has increased the recurrent funding for HA by $25 million from 2021-2022 onwards to support the Hong Kong Children's Hospital ("HKCH") in providing more comprehensive services to patients with uncommon disorders. These include gradually increasing the manpower for clinical genetic service and the number of relevant clinical and supporting staff; launching a case manager programme for the coordination of patients' treatment and care; boosting the capacity of genetic and genomic testing service to enhance the capability to diagnose uncommon disorders; developing databases for individual uncommon disorders (including spinal muscular atrophy as well as inborn errors of metabolism covered under the existing newborn screening programme in the beginning phase) to facilitate clinical diagnosis and treatment; and establishing information platforms (e.g. by utilizing HA's Smart Patient Website) to raise the awareness of uncommon disorders among the public and healthcare professionals. These measures will be taken forward by HKCH progressively from 2021-2022.

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Besides, the Government will continue to deploy resources to promote scientific development and clinical research relating to uncommon disorders, which includes the provision of funding for new related research projects under the Health and Medical Research Fund. These projects will commence progressively.

On drug subsidy, we have further refined the means test mechanism of the Samaritan Fund ("SF") and the Community Care Fund ("CCF") Medical Assistance Programmes in late April 2021, which includes modifying the calculation of annual disposable financial resources and the validity period of financial assessment for recurrent applications.

(3), (5) and (6)

Provision of suitable drug treatment is one of the important aspects of support for needy patients (including those with uncommon disorders). With the advancement of medical technology, HA has been keeping abreast of international developments in the medical field and new drugs introduced into the pharmaceutical market from time to time. HA has an established mechanism for regular appraisal of registered new drugs or their clinical indications and review of its Drug Formulary ("HADF") and the coverage of the safety net with the support of multiple expert panels of different specialities, in order to cater for prevailing and evolving service needs. The review process follows an evidence-based approach, having regard to the safety, efficacy and cost-effectiveness of drugs and other relevant considerations, which include international recommendations and practices as well as professional views, so as to ensure equitable and effective use of public resources in providing optimal treatment for patients.

HA is providing drug treatment for needy patients (including those with uncommon disorders) through the recurrent funding from the Government, SF and the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes. On the other hand, HA will, based on service needs, liaise with pharmaceutical companies concerned from time to time to discuss and formulate risk sharing or capping programmes for individual suitable self-financed drugs. Moreover, HA will liaise with 5584 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

pharmaceutical companies on providing special or compassionate programmes, having regard to the exceptional circumstances and clinical needs of specific individual patients, so as to facilitate their early access to drug treatment. HA will also look into the long-term arrangements for drug treatment to patients with specific uncommon disorders.

On increasing the drugs covered by SF and the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes and relaxing the clinical criteria for existing drugs, HA's Drug Management Committee ("DMC") will regularly call for submissions from clinicians on self-financed drugs proposed for inclusion into the safety net. Upon professional deliberation by DMC, the list of drugs recommended for inclusion into the safety net will undergo governance approval process by relevant committees.

As at March 2021, the numbers of drugs covered by SF and the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes were 51 and 37 respectively. The number of drugs included in the safety net over the past three years is as follows:

Number of drugs included^ 2018-2019 2019-2020 2020-2021 SF 6 10 9 CCF Medical Assistance 10 4 11 Programmes

Note:

^ Including new drugs repositioned from the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes to SF, as well as those which are originally covered by either SF or the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes and subsequently introduced to the other source of funding for different clinical indications.

Taking into account the increasing demand for ultra-expensive drug treatments for uncommon disorders, the Government and HA introduced a CCF Medical Assistance Programme in August 2017 to provide subsidy for eligible patients to purchase ultra-expensive drugs (including those for treating uncommon disorders). The statistics of approved applications for drugs covered by the Programme since its implementation is set out at Annex.

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HA will formulate clinical treatment criteria for drugs to be included in HADF or the safety net based on the principle of evidence-based medical practice, published scientific research and clinical data as well as international practices. Review of drugs listed on HADF and the safety net as well as related clinical indications and clinical treatment criteria is an ongoing process driven by evolving medical evidence, the latest clinical developments and market dynamics.

HA will continue to keep abreast of the latest developments of clinical and scientific evidence, listen to the views and suggestions of patient groups, and review HADF and the scope of subsidy under the safety net through the established mechanism so as to benefit more patients in need.

(4) HA does not keep information on the required time from submission of application by an applicant to completion of vetting process for SF or the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes. Nonetheless, upon receipt of referrals from the doctors concerned as well as the required information or documents from the patients, medical social workers will process the applications as soon as possible to provide timely assistance for needy patients.

Some cases might take longer to process as patients or household members have not submitted all required documents. As such, HA has stepped up publicity to remind patients or applicants of the information and supporting documents required for processing their applications. Video clips about the application procedures, points to note and post-approval check mechanism of different types of medical assistance are being produced to enhance public understanding of how to apply for assistance under SF and the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes. Meanwhile, HA is developing a mini mobile application in "HA Go" to facilitate communication with patients on the financial assessment as well as applicants' enquiry on application status and funding utilization.

Moreover, measures taken by the Government and HA in recent years to enhance the means test mechanism of SF and the CCF Medical Assistance Programmes have also helped streamline the 5586 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

application process. For example, since early 2019, the definition of "household" adopted in financial assessment has been revised to cover only core family members living under the same roof and having direct financial connection with the patient concerned. Statistics have shown that the number of drug subsidy applications with household size of one to two persons increased by about 30% in the first 12 months after the implementation of the enhancement measures. In addition, further refinements have been implemented since late April 2021, including extending the validity period of the financial assessment of the first application from recurrent applicants to 18 months on the condition that the patient contribution is not more than $2,000, as well as waiving the requirement for all applicants to submit financial documents if they have been referred a second application within one to two months after the first application.

The Government and HA have sought to streamline and expedite the processing of subsidy applications by simplifying the application procedures, stepping up publicity, as well as enhancing the transparency of both the application and vetting procedures. We will also continue to study the issues relating to drug subsidy applications with a view to providing appropriate support for needy patients.

(8) Under the pilot phase of the Hong Kong Genome Project ("HKGP"), around 5 000 whole genome sequencing will be performed, which will cover cases of undiagnosed genetic diseases and hereditary cancers, many of which involve patients with uncommon disorders. The Hong Kong Genome Institute is proactively discussing with the three partnering centres at HKCH, Li Ka Shing Faculty of Medicine of the University of Hong Kong and the Faculty of Medicine of The Chinese University of Hong Kong on the recruitment of participants, and the projects such as testing and genetic counselling. According to the current progress, recruitment of patients for HKGP will start later this year.

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Annex

Statistics of approved applications for drugs covered by the CCF "Subsidy for Eligible Patients to Purchase Ultra-expensive Drugs (Including Those for Treating Uncommon Disorders)" since its implementation

2018-2019 2019-2020 2020-2021

Number Number Number of cases Average of cases Average of cases Average

subsidy subsidy subsidy Drug items

amount ($) amount ($) amount ($)

per case (million) per case (million) per case (million)

($) Average patient ($) Average patient ($) Average patient contribution per case case per contribution case per contribution case per contribution Total subsidy amount subsidy Total amount subsidy Total amount subsidy Total Full Subsidy Full Subsidy Full Subsidy Full Partial subsidy Partial subsidy Partial subsidy Partial Eculizumab(1) 7 3 4,099,276 23,575 40.99 10 4 3,938,357 261,032 55.14 2 3 4,082,154 31,606 20.41 Eculizumab(1) 5 4 3,621,747 102,998 32.60 (SF) Nusinersen(2) 4 - 1,361,118 - 5.44 8 5 3,380,329 466,746 43.94 12 6 2,547,592 637,357 45.86 Tafamidis(3) ------1 882,548 4,702 0.88 - 1 841,196 46,054 0.84 Dinutuximab ------1 6 1,442,496 279,421 10.10 Beta(4)

Notes:

(1) The concerned drug and designated clinical indication has been incorporated under the coverage of the SF safety net since 11 July 2020.

(2) From 25 September 2018

(3) From 13 July 2019

(4) From 29 December 2020

Amendment of plans and modification of land leases

21. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Chinese): President, on the applications made under section 12A of the Town Planning Ordinance (Cap. 131) for amendment of plans, and the applications made to the Lands Department ("LandsD") for modification of land leases, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of applications received in each of the past five financial years by the Town Planning Board ("TPB") which were made under section 12A of Cap. 131 for rezoning certain land(s) on the original approved plans from non-residential use to residential use, and set out in a table the following information on those cases which were accepted in whole or in part by TPB:

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(i) the lot number(s) involved,

(ii) the area of the land(s) within the lot(s),

(iii) the number of residential flats proposed to be built,

(iv) the date on which the application was first submitted,

(v) the date on which TPB published the amendments to the approved plan,

(vi) the date on which TPB exhibited the draft plan for the public to make representations,

(vii) the date on which the proposed amendments were incorporated by TPB as part of the draft plan, and

(viii) the date on which the draft plan was approved by the Chief Executive-in-Council;

(2) whether an application for land lease modification, submitted to LandsD by an owner of the land(s) within the lot(s) concerned during the period between the dates mentioned in (1)(vii) and (viii), will be accepted; if not, of the reasons for that; and

(3) given that LandsD will seek the views of the relevant government departments on an application for land lease modification and submit it to a District Lands Conference for discussion before proposing the provisional terms (including the land premium) to the applicant, whether LandsD has reviewed the target time for completing the various procedures; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, with the relevant departments consulted, my reply to various parts of the question is as follows:

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(1) In the past five financial years, the Town Planning Board ("TPB") received a total of 45 applications for amendment of approved Outline Zoning Plan ("OZP")/draft OZP under section 12A of the Town Planning Ordinance ("TPO") (Cap. 131) involving rezoning from non-residential zones(1) to residential and related zones(2).

Of these 45 applications, 26 were considered by TPB. TPB decided to agree/partially agree to 11 applications, details of which are as follows:

Date of Application Date of Approval Site Received Proposed Publication of of Draft Application Area Date [TPB No. of Flat/ Draft OZP by OZP by Site (sq m)* Decision House* TPB Inviting the Chief (about) Date for the Representation^ Executive Application] in Council 2016-2017 Junction of 7 725 600 flats 5.4.2016 15.9.2017 21.8.2018 Shek Pai [28.10.2016] Wan Road and Tin Wan Hill Road, Aberdeen Various Lots 3 617 300 flats 4.8.2016 29.3.2019 7.1.2020 in D.D. 51 [23.6.2017] and adjoining government land, Fanling 2017-2018 Sai Pin Wai, 106 1 small 15.5.2017 29.1.2021 - Sai Kai house [11.8.2017] (Under Road, Yuen representation Long consideration process)

(1) Involving mainly "Agriculture", "Green Belt", "Conservation Area", "Government, Institution or Community", "Recreation", "Open Space", "Other Specified Uses" zones and area shown as "Road".

(2) Involving mainly "Residential", "Comprehensive Development Area", "Village Type Development" and "Other Specified Uses" zones. 5590 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Date of Application Date of Approval Site Received Proposed Publication of of Draft Application Area Date [TPB No. of Flat/ Draft OZP by OZP by Site (sq m)* Decision House* TPB Inviting the Chief (about) Date for the Representation^ Executive Application] in Council Hilltop Road, 40 024 458 flats 30.1.2018 26.2.2021 - Tsuen Wan [1.9.2020] (Under representation consideration process) 2018-2019 Ship Street, 2 428 221 flats 13.4.2018 Not yet - Schooner [13.12.2019] incorporated in Street and the draft plan adjoining government land, Wan Chai Stanley 7 646 8 flats 11.7.2018 5.6.2020 - Village Road, [4.1.2019] (Under Stanley representation consideration process) Hang Hau 4 195 8 houses 19.10.2018 Not yet - Road, Sai [18.9.2020] incorporated in Kung the draft plan 2019-2020 Various Lots 1 068 56 flats 8.1.2020 Not yet - in D.D. 390 [12.3.2021] incorporated in and adjoining the draft plan government land, Sham Tseng, Tsuen Wan West LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5591

Date of Application Date of Approval Site Received Proposed Publication of of Draft Application Area Date [TPB No. of Flat/ Draft OZP by OZP by Site (sq m)* Decision House* TPB Inviting the Chief (about) Date for the Representation^ Executive Application] in Council 2020-2021 Carpenter 5 921 850 flats 6.5.2020 Not yet - Road, [21.8.2020] incorporated in Kowloon the draft plan City Various Lots 31 050 1 427 flats 11.6.2020 5.3.2021 - in D.D. 92 [18.12.2020] (Under and adjoining representation government consideration land, Kam process) Hang Road, Kwu Tung South On Chun 8 000 758 flats or 21.9.2020 Not yet - Street, Ma 637 flats and [26.2.2021] incorporated in On Shan 194 hotel the draft plan rooms

Notes:

* The proposed site area and number of flat/house are for reference only and may be subject to change depending on the restrictions of respective land use zoning of the draft plan and the detailed development proposal.

^ When TPB exhibits the relevant draft plan, it means TPB preliminarily agrees to incorporate the proposed amendment in the draft plan.

(2) Generally speaking, when processing lease modification applications, the Lands Department ("LandsD") formulates development restrictions of lots according to the land use and development parameters permitted by the prevailing statutory OZPs. For application relating to the change of land use zoning submitted under section 12A of TPO that have been approved by TPB for inclusion into the relevant draft OZP, but the draft OZP has yet to be approved by the Chief Executive in Council, LandsD in general 5592 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

would not commence the processing of such lease modification application submitted by the relevant lot owner. That said, for lease modification applications involving housing supply, LandsD would consider commencing the preliminary processing in advance on a case-by-case basis in order to expedite the approval process.

The Steering Group on Streamlining Development Control ("Steering Group") convened by the Development Bureau is reviewing the above situation. For applications relating to the change of land use zoning submitted and approved under section 12A of TPO, we hope to set out procedural guidelines for LandsD to commence the processing of such lease modifications before the completion of the draft OZP amendments, so as to save time and expedite housing supply.

(3) For lease modification (including land exchange) applications in general, LandsD has a performance target to reply to the applicant within 22 weeks upon receiving the submission of documents (including necessary information to support the application), which may be in the form of a provisional offer with basic terms, an in-principle agreement, or a rejection. In order to expedite the processing of large-scale lease modification applications and those relating to residential development, LandsD has set up a dedicated Land Supply Section in April 2019 to handle these cases. The Land Supply Section maintains close communication with lease modification applicants and arranges inter-departmental meetings to swiftly handle relevant matters.

As regards premium assessment, since September 2018, LandsD has centralized all premium assessment exercises from its district lands offices to its headquarters valuation team with a view to streamlining the procedures and expediting the handling of applications.

Given that the issuance of provisional basic terms offer as well as premium offer are two key milestones in a lease modification application, the Steering Group will also follow up with LandsD on shortening the time required for these two procedures.

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Coronavirus Disease 2019 vaccines

22. MS STARRY LEE (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that a member of the expert advisory group has indicated that the efficacy of the two Coronavirus Disease 2019 ("COVID-19") vaccines currently used in Hong Kong drops when fighting the South Africa COVID-19 variant, but one of the vaccines (i.e. Comirnaty) still has a certain effect. So far, just over 10% of the population in Hong Kong has been vaccinated against COVID-19. However, a vaccination rate of at least 60% is needed to achieve herd immunity. As the first local confirmed case of the South Africa variant has emerged in Hong Kong earlier on, members of the public should receive vaccination expeditiously to prevent the spread of such virus in Hong Kong, which may increase the probability of the virus mutating. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether, in order to encourage members of the public to receive vaccination, the Government will proactively discuss with the Mainland authorities allowing, when the number of COVID-19 confirmed cases in Hong Kong remains at a low level, those Hong Kong residents who have received two vaccine doses and have been tested positive for COVID-19 antibody to enter the Mainland (or only the Mainland cities in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area at the initial stage) without being subject to the 14-day compulsory quarantine requirement; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(2) given that the experts of the University of Hong Kong and certain countries are conducting studies on the efficacy and safety of mixed vaccination involving different types of vaccines, whether it knows the latest progress of the studies?

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, vaccination is the current focus of the global anti-epidemic work. The Government has implemented the COVID-19 Vaccination Programme (the Vaccination Programme) since 26 February this year. As of 3 May, about 1.53 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been administered to members of the public, with about 970 000 people having received the first dose (accounting for about 14.8% of the population aged 16 or above). The Government will adopt the concept of "vaccine bubble" as announced earlier as the new direction 5594 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 in fighting the epidemic, with an aim to restoring the normal operations of society in a gradual and orderly manner. However, the premise is that the public needs to work together and get vaccinated proactively in order to help Hong Kong beat the epidemic as soon as possible. Although mutant viruses are spreading rampantly around the globe and Hong Kong recently recorded the first local case of infection with unknown source involving a mutant virus strain, the two authorized vaccines under the Vaccination Programme are still effective in vitro testing against the two mutant viruses detected in the local case. In view of the higher transmissibility of mutant strains, we urge the public to get vaccinated without delay.

In consultation with the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, my reply to the various parts of the question raised by Ms Starry LEE is as follows:

(1) The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government has been communicating and liaising closely with the relevant authorities in the Mainland and Macao Special Administrative Region Government on disease prevention and control measures, as well as on arrangements for cross-boundary travel for residents of the three places. We are actively exploring the resumption of normal cross-boundary activities amongst residents of the three places in a gradual and orderly manner when the epidemic situation in the three places is under control and without increasing public health risks.

(2) The Health and Medical Research Fund has invited local universities to submit research proposals relating to COVID-19 vaccines, out of which the University of Hong Kong is making preparations for a research study to vaccinate volunteers with a single dose of Comirnaty (a mRNA vaccine) followed by a single dose of CoronaVac (an inactivated vaccine). The objective is to compare with those vaccinated with two doses of Comirnaty or two doses of CoronaVac, in order to provide the relevant data on safety and increasing immunogenicity with respect to the combined use of COVID-19 vaccines. The proposal is under peer review and assessment is expected to be completed within this month.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5595

GOVERNMENT BILLS

First Reading and Second Reading of Government Bill

First Reading of Government Bill

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government Bill: First Reading.

MERCURY CONTROL BILL

CLERK (in Cantonese): Mercury Control Bill.

Bill read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

Second Reading of Government Bill

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government Bill: Second Reading.

MERCURY CONTROL BILL

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, I move the Second Reading of the Mercury Control Bill ("the Bill").

The Bill provides for the implementation of the Minamata Convention on Mercury ("the Convention"). Mercury is a naturally occurring heavy metal which is highly toxic. Recognizing its harmful effects, the United Nations Environment Programme developed the Convention which is an international treaty with the objective to control anthropogenic releases of mercury. The Convention entered into force in August 2017. The People's Republic of China is one of the Parties to the Convention, and the Convention also applies to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR").

The Bill regulates the import and export, storage and use of mercury, mercury mixtures and mercury compounds, as well as the import and export, manufacture and supply etc. of mercury-added products, so as to fulfil the obligations set out in the Convention that are not yet covered by the existing legal or administrative frameworks. The Bill contains four major provisions, 5596 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 including implementing a regulatory permit system for regulating the import and export of all forms of mercury, phasing out mercury-added products listed in the Convention, prohibiting the use of mercury and mercury compounds in the manufacturing processes listed in the Convention, and implementing a regulatory permit system for regulating the storage of all forms of mercury and mercury compounds.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

To prepare for the implementation of the Convention in Hong Kong, the Environmental Protection Department ("EPD") published the consultation document and conducted a series of consultations with members of the public and relevant trades and stakeholders in 2018. Respondents generally supported the Government's proposal to introduce a new piece of legislation to align with the international practices. We also consulted the Advisory Council on the Environment under EPD and the Legislative Council Panel on Environmental Affairs in July 2019 and January 2021 respectively. Both committees supported the Government's proposal to introduce new legislation to ensure Hong Kong's compliance with the obligations under the Convention.

Since no industry in Hong Kong relies on the use of mercury, the legislative proposal will not pose any burden on the trade concerned. Moreover, mercury-free alternatives are already widely available in the market nowadays, so the impact on the general public is minimal.

The Bill can ensure Hong Kong's full compliance with the international obligations under the Convention, and can protect public health and the environment from anthropogenic emissions and releases of mercury and its compounds.

Deputy President, I so submit.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Mercury Control Bill be read the Second time.

In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the Second Reading debate is adjourned and the Bill is referred to the House Committee.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5597

Resumption of Second Reading Debate on Government Bill

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This Council resumes the Second Reading debate on the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill.

MAINLAND JUDGMENTS IN MATRIMONIAL AND FAMILY CASES (RECIPROCAL RECOGNITION AND ENFORCEMENT) BILL

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 2 December 2020.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Chairman of the Bills Committee on the Bill, will first address the Council on the Bills Committee's Report.

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): In my capacity as Chairman of Bills Committee on Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bills Committee"), Deputy President, I deliver the Bills Committee's report on the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bill"). The main objects of the Bill are, in order to give effect to the Arrangement on Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement of Civil Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases by the Courts of the Mainland and of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("the Arrangement") made between the Supreme People's Court of the People's Republic of China and the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR"), to provide for the recognition and enforcement in Hong Kong of judgments in matrimonial and family cases given in the Mainland; facilitating the recognition and enforcement in the Mainland of judgments in matrimonial and family cases given in Hong Kong; and the recognition of Mainland divorce certificates.

A total of four Bills Committee meetings were held. Members considered the establishment of a mechanism for reciprocal recognition and enforcement of civil judgments in matrimonial and family cases between Hong Kong and the Mainland crucial in avoiding duplication of proceedings and providing better protection for families, in particular the parties involved in cross-boundary marriages and their children as well. Thus, they supported early passage of the Bill. Besides, the Bills Committee has also invited written views on the Bill 5598 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 from the public, but no written submission has been received by the submission deadline.

In the course of scrutiny of the Bill, the Bills Committee discussed and raised questions with the Administration on the different areas covered by the provisions. In response to the queries regarding the definition of "minor child" or "child" under the Bill, the Administration has confirmed that the definition includes illegitimate child, step-child or adopted child. As regards how the recognition and enforcement of a custody-related order or maintenance-related order in relation to a child above the age of 18 years who cannot live independently can reconcile with the jurisdiction of Hong Kong courts in respect of the custody and maintenance of a child under the existing legislation, the Administration has pointed out that where a specified order which is a care-related order has been ordered to be registered, the Bill proposes that the specified order may be enforced in Hong Kong as if it were an order originally made by the registering court.

On the other hand, effective Mainland judgments under the Bill include Mainland judgments made pursuant to the provisions in Chapter 16 of the Civil Procedure Law of the People's Republic of China and in accordance with Mainland trial supervision procedure. Members have raised questions with the Administration on such issues as how the trial supervision procedure may be invoked. The Administration has explained that trial supervision is a different procedure from the appeal procedure and involves a review of the judgment or ruling by the court, which may give rise to an order for retrial if warranted. An application for retrial by a party will only be allowed where one or more of the stipulated grounds have been met. In the context of matrimonial and family cases, a party may not make an application for retrial in relation to effective judgments or conciliatory statements on divorce. Where a decision for retrial has been made, the execution of the judgment, ruling or conciliatory statement shall be suspended, except that suspension is not mandatory for cases involving claims for spousal maintenance and support for children, etc.

In addition, the Bill proposes that registration application in respect of a care-related order and a maintenance-related order shall generally be made within two years in Mainland civil matrimonial and family cases, and the District Court ("DC") may give permission for the registration application to be made after the expiry of the two-year time limit. Members have expressed concerns over the rationale for giving such a discretionary power to the court and what considerations would be taken into account in determining whether the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5599 permission may be given. The Administration has responded that it is trite law that the courts have a wide and unfettered discretion in considering time extension applications with the object of avoiding injustice and prejudice to the parties. The applicant should give adequate explanation for the inability to comply with the stipulated time limit. The particular matters that will be taken into account by the court when exercising its discretion would depend on the circumstances of particular cases and subject to case law that may develop after the Bill has come into operation.

The Bill provides for the procedures for setting aside a registration, including, among other things, the grounds on which registration must be set aside. Members have discussed and sought elaboration from the Administration on some of these grounds, including the meaning of "not given a reasonable opportunity to make submissions or defend the proceedings", and the criteria or considerations that would be taken into account in determining whether the recognition or enforcement of the specified order is manifestly contrary to the public policy of Hong Kong.

The Bills Committee has also discussed the circumstances under which a registered order would need to be transferred to the Court of First Instance ("CFI") and whether the mechanism would be abused. The Administration has advised that DC and CFI generally exercise similar jurisdictions in matrimonial and family cases, but CFI can exercise certain powers under the Domestic and Cohabitation Relationships Violence Ordinance (Cap. 189) in a case of urgency. Besides, it may also be more appropriate to transfer the order to CFI in cases where complex issues or novel points of law were involved. The Administration has also pointed out that the Bill has provided safeguard against abuse as the Registrar may direct such transfer only if the Registrar is satisfied that the registered order could not be conveniently enforced in DC.

Other issues of concern discussed by the Bills Committee in relation to the Bill include: the factors that would be taken into account for determining what is in the best interests of the child and the differences and similarities between the Mainland and Hong Kong in this regard; the fact that the registration of a specified order in a Mainland judgment under the Bill does not prevent a court in Hong Kong from recognizing any law or fact decided in the Judgment under the common law; and the meaning of "same cause of action" concerning the restriction imposed on a party to a Mainland judgment in bringing in Hong Kong proceedings in respect of the same cause of action.

5600 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

The Administration has responded to the questions raised by the members of the Bills Committee and the Legal Adviser on the provisions. In the course of discussion, members considered that information on the legislative context of the various provisions of the Bill and how to reflect the Arrangement as well as relevant Mainland legislation etc. are vital to facilitating legal practitioners in Hong Kong, and the Administration has provided such information as requested by the Bills Committee.

Finally, having accepted some of the Bills Committee's views and reviewed the provisions, the Administration promised to propose amendments to the Bill, including amending clause 11, amending certain terms in the English definitions (i.e. replacing the Chinese equivalent terms of "status-related order", "care-related order" and "maintenance-related order" with "狀況相關命令", "看顧相關命令" and "贍養相關命令"), and amending the Chinese rendition of the term "child" in certain provisions of the Bill to "子女".

The Bills Committee supported the Administration's proposal to resume the Second Reading debate on the Bill at the Council meeting on 5 May 2021. It raised no objection to the Administration's proposed amendments and would not propose any amendments. Details of the Bills Committee's work are set out in its report to the Legislative Council.

Deputy President, the following are my views on the Bill.

The Arrangement was signed between the HKSAR Government and the Supreme People's Court of the People's Republic of China on 20 June 2017. The Administration has entered into the Arrangement having regard to the following considerations:

(a) Mainland judgments in matrimonial and family matters are at present generally not recognized and enforceable in Hong Kong. Neither does Mainland law expressly provide for the recognition and enforcement of Hong Kong judgments in matrimonial and family matters in the Mainland;

(b) In view of the large number of cross-boundary marriages and related legal disputes, there exists a pressing need to establish a bilateral arrangement between Hong Kong and the Mainland to provide for reciprocal recognition and enforcement of civil judgments on matrimonial and family matters; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5601

(c) The Arrangement will be in the interest of parties and families of cross-boundary marriages as it will offer better safeguards to the parties' rights, as well as reduce the need for re-litigation of the same disputes, and hence save time and cost and reduce emotional distress of the parties. Therefore, the public, the legal sector and the Judiciary all request the early implementation of the detailed provisions of the Arrangement.

In fact, the arrangement for cooperation between Hong Kong and the Mainland in judicial assistance matters has come much more slowly than similar arrangement reached across the Straits (i.e. between the Mainland and Taiwan). As early as 1998, an arrangement on reciprocal recognition and enforcement of judgments and arbitration awards in civil and commercial matters was already reached between the Mainland and Taiwan to facilitate exchanges among the people across the Straits. Despite the serious political differences between the two sides, agreements could still be reached as early as possible on major livelihood issues to facilitate the handling of cross-Straits marriages and related matters such as matters concerning succession rights and custody arising from cross-Straits marriages.

Back then, both sides made it clear that they would not recognize decisions that were contrary to good customs (decency) of either of the places or the national interest (in the Mainland). We have also highlighted this point in the Arrangement currently reached with the Mainland, that is, we may not recognize decisions that are contrary to the public policy of Hong Kong. We understand that the judicial systems in both Taiwan and the Mainland are founded on statutory law, where trials are conducted in Chinese and the legal and judicial sectors of both places speak the same language, namely Mandarin, thus enabling more effective communication between both sides.

Our legal and judicial sectors have had reservations about recognizing Mainland judgments in civil and commercial matters ever since Hong Kong's return to China, and the earliest consensus reached between Hong Kong and the Mainland being that on arbitration awards. I have also assisted in numerous matrimonial cases across Hong Kong and the Mainland to facilitate communication among people across the two places.

Generally speaking, a party who wins his/her case on the Mainland has to go through the pain of trial all over again in Hong Kong and has to shoulder the litigation costs upon winning the case here. It is highly undesirable to repeat 5602 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 such painful and prolonged trials in matrimonial disputes where both parties of a failed marriage as well as their children have to suffer a lot. That is why I have been pushing for an early arrangement on reciprocal recognition of judgments in civil and commercial cases between Hong Kong and the Mainland. In my opinion, today's proposed arrangement is 15 years late at least. Before then, many of the parties to such cases have paid huge sums of legal fees but may not necessarily have the best arrangements.

The specified orders as set out in items 1, 2, 3 and 4 in Part 1 and items 1 and 2 in Part 3 of Schedule 2 to the Bill refer to orders in relation to the custody, guardianship, right of access or maintenance of a child. The Bills Committee members and the Legal Adviser to the Bills Committee have enquired in detail: Does the "minor child" or "child" referred to in Schedules 1 and 2 include an illegitimate child, a step-child or an adopted child? The Government has given a clear explanation: References to a "child" in Schedules 1 and 2 to the Bill can include an illegitimate child, a step-child or an adopted child according to the relevant provisions of Civil Code of the People's Republic of China.

Nevertheless, Hong Kong courts do not have jurisdiction to make or grant a custody order in respect of a person above the age of 18 years under existing legislation, save that Hong Kong courts have the power to, when making ancillary relief orders for a child of the family who is below 18 years old, include in such order a provision extending beyond the age of 18 if it appears to the court that the child is or will be receiving certain education or training, or there are special circumstances. In short, the reasons (such as health, mental and other reasons) why a child above the age of 18 years have not yet demonstrated the ability to live independently will be taken into consideration.

Members and the Legal Adviser to the Bills Committee have enquired about what "domestic relationship" refers to and whether it would include cohabitation relationship apart from spousal relationship. The Administration has explained that, pursuant to Mainland law, a person may apply to the Mainland courts for an order for protection from domestic violence committed by family members as well as cohabitants other than family members. "Family members" include spouses, parents, children as well as other close relatives who are living together, while "close relatives" include spouses, parents, children, siblings, paternal and maternal grandparents and paternal and maternal grandchildren. Yet, the Bill does not cover the recognition and enforcement of Mainland's adoption orders in Hong Kong, which continues to be subject to Hong Kong's Adoption Ordinance.

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The Bill proposes that a Mainland judgment is effective if it is enforceable in the Mainland and is a Mainland judgment (i) given by the Supreme People's Court; (ii) of the second instance given by a Higher People's Court ("HPC") or an Intermediate People's Court ("IPC"); or (iii) of the first instance given by a HPC, IPC or a Primary People's Court, and no appeal is allowed from the judgment according to the law of the Mainland.

While reading out the Bills Committee's report earlier on, I have just mentioned that a number of members enquired about the meaning of the procedure of trial supervision. The procedure is, in fact, among those uniquely Chinese litigation procedures, that is, the court may order retrial of a wrongly-judged case, which is not at all characteristic of Hong Kong courts. In the context of matrimonial and family cases, a party may not make an application for retrial in relation to effective judgments or conciliatory statements on judgment, ruling or conciliatory statement shall be suspended.

Here, I will not comment further on the two-year time-limit but will discuss in particular the circumstances under which registration should be set aside. One such circumstance being that the registration application is manifestly contrary to the public policy of Hong Kong. And a registration application can be set aside if it is manifestly contrary to the public policy of Hong Kong. In fact, as early as 1998, there was a precedent (the Ting Lei Miao case) in the Court of Final Appeal concerning whether Hong Kong was to assist in the enforcement of a bankruptcy order made by a Taiwan court. Back then, Hong Kong made it clear that on the premise of not recognizing the Taiwan court's claim of sovereignty and for the convenience of the people of both places, Hong Kong could recognize the bankruptcy order provided that it was not contrary to the public policy of Hong Kong.

In my opinion, it sounds rather sensible for the Bill to not allow the making of any order which is contrary to the public policy of Hong Kong. Actually, the court of any place making an arrangement with another place for reciprocal recognition of judgments will have regard for the interests of both the people and the country alike so as to avoid causing great anxiety and resentment in the community. Therefore, relevant legal requirements will generally be laid down.

Hence, I support the resumption of Second Reading of the Bill, and I am very grateful to the Bills Committee and the Government for their strenuous efforts to ensure smooth passage of the Bill.

5604 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, the Liberal Party supports the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bill") so as to give effect to the Arrangement on Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement of Civil Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases by the Courts of the Mainland and of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("the Arrangement") made between the Supreme People's Court of the People's Republic of China and the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") in 2017.

Cross-boundary marriages between Hong Kong and the Mainland have become rather common in recent years. Since the 1980s, a large number of Hong Kong males have gone to the Mainland to get married and have their own families upon obtaining Certificates of Absence of Marriage Record in Hong Kong. Since the implementation of the Individual Visit Scheme in the Mainland in 2003, more cross-boundary marriages between Hong Kong males and Mainland females were registered in Hong Kong. These Mainland-HKSAR families in general have chosen Hong Kong as the place for family reunion.

Subsequently, as the Mainland economy took off, there has been a boom in marriages between Hong Kong females and Mainland males in the recent decade. According to statistics, marriages between Hong Kong females and Mainland males accounted for 30% of marriages registered in Hong Kong in 2017. There are also many Mainland-HKSAR couples who have chosen to register their marriages in the Mainland, and more and more Mainland-HKSAR families have chosen Mainland as the place for family reunion.

This being the case, there are indeed many cross-boundary marriages between Hong Kong and the Mainland after some 30 years, and a lot of them own properties in both the Mainland and Hong Kong. However, once these families have problems and the marriages end in divorce, it would pose a compelling critical challenge to them in sorting things out both in the Mainland and Hong Kong in the aftermath of divorce. Based on the figures provided by the Hong Kong Judiciary, the total number of divorce cases filed with the Hong Kong Family Court was 68 374 between 2017 and 2019, about 18% of which were divorce cases involving cross-boundary marriages, meaning an average of over 4 000 cases per year.

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All along, there has been no reciprocal recognition and enforcement of judgments in family cases involving cross-boundary marriages and Mainland-HKSAR families between the courts in Hong Kong and the Mainland. In case one party has determined to evade a court decision (e.g. a Mainland resident coming to Hong Kong or a Hong Kong resident going to the Mainland to evade legal responsibility), the other party will have to go to the other side of the Shenzhen River to file a new lawsuit, thus resulting in the loss of time and money suffered by the weaker party who has also to endure physical and mental suffering. It is indeed rather unfair to the weaker party.

Once the Bill is passed, Mainland judgments in matrimonial and family cases will be enforceable in Hong Kong courts upon registration. Similarly, judgments given by Hong Kong courts in matrimonial or family cases will be enforceable upon application to Mainland courts for recognition. With the presence of reciprocal recognition and execution of relevant court judgments between Mainland and Hong Kong, we will then be able to get to the root of the problem and resolve it. The Liberal Party welcomes the proposed arrangement and supports the resumption of Second Reading of the Bill.

I so submit, Deputy President.

MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I rise to speak in support of the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bill"). As colleagues just mentioned, the reason for legislation is that the Arrangement on Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement of Civil Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases by the Courts of the Mainland and of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("the Arrangement") was signed between the HKSAR Government and the Supreme People's Court ("SPC") of the People's Republic of China in 2017, but it has not yet been implemented. Later, the Government completed public consultations in March 2019 and submitted the Bill to the Legislative Council for First Reading and Second Reading in December 2010. Finally, the Bill is expected to be read the Third time and passed today.

In fact, Hong Kong has returned to the Motherland for 24 years already. With the economic and cultural integration between Hong Kong and the Mainland, cross-boundary marriages have become very common, and many 5606 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 problems have arisen, such as marriage disputes, child custody and property distribution etc., very often need to be settled. Up till now, there are still great differences in the laws of the two places in respect of judgments in matrimonial and family cases. Since there is no reciprocal recognition and enforcement of judgments in the aforesaid matters, in case of marital breakdown, if a party migrates to the Mainland and fails to comply with the Hong Kong judgment, the other party, whose interests are jeopardized, has to re-litigate the matter in the Mainland to protect his/her interests. If the couple both live in the Mainland and are granted a divorce by the court, the maintenance, right of guardianship and right of access to their child are also involved. If a party takes a minor child to Hong Kong, he/she may violate the Mainland judgment, and the other party in the Mainland has to come to Hong Kong for litigation.

Under the "one country, two systems" principle, if we have better coordination as early as possible through a mechanism for registration of specified orders, as well as for reciprocal recognition and enforcement of Hong Kong and Mainland judgments, it will facilitate the reciprocal recognition of judgments of the two places in matrimonial and family cases, and reduce the need for re-litigation of the same disputes, and hence save time and cost, and reduce the emotional distress of the concerned parties, thereby protecting the interests of both parties and their families in cross-boundary marriages.

Deputy President, the purpose of the Bill is to give effect to the Arrangement made between SPC and the HKSAR Government. In actual operation, the Bill seeks to establish mechanisms in Hong Kong for the registration of specified orders in judgments given by Mainland courts in matrimonial or family cases, for the recognition of Mainland divorce certificates and for facilitating parties in their applications to Mainland courts for the recognition and enforcement of judgments given by Hong Kong courts in matrimonial or family cases.

Deputy President, according to the figures provided by the Department of Justice, in fact, in the past three years, i.e. starting from the day the Arrangement was signed, amongst the total of 68 374 divorce cases filed in the Family Court of Hong Kong, as Mr Tommy CHEUNG has also mentioned, 18% were related to marriages in the Mainland. That means one out of five divorce cases involves cross-boundary marriage, a total of 12 000 cases in three years, i.e. an average of 4 000 cases per year.

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Deputy President, I am not a legal expert. The work related to the Bill looks simple, yet, since the legal terms used in Hong Kong and the Mainland are different, slight adaption is needed, but it is not a big problem, and that is why there are amendments to be put forward by the Secretary for Justice later. Once the Bill is passed, a party to a Mainland judgment given in a matrimonial or family case may apply to a district court for registration in respect of one or more specified orders in the Mainland judgment. Such orders can also be enforced by the Hong Kong court after registration provided that the concerned judgment is still valid in the Mainland. For instance, care-related orders (orders relating to custody, guardianship and right of access to a child under the age of 18 years, or order for the protection of a person from domestic violence). The applying party can register at a Hong Kong court provided that the other party does not fulfil his/her obligations as ordered. If the Hong Kong court is satisfied that the application meets the relevant requirements, it may order that the order concerned be registered and enforced. Then the other party in Hong Kong must fulfil his/her obligations as ordered. This provision also covers the enforcement of status-related orders (orders granting divorce or annulment of a marriage) and maintenance-related orders (such as orders relating to the division of property between the parties to a marriage).

Deputy President, when I first joined the Bills Committee, I recalled many real situations encountered by families while examining the Bill. Take Sham Shui Po, the old district I served before, as an example. I saw many cross-boundary couples encounter many conflicts and problems. For instance, the wife has come to Hong Kong for a few years and lived in a subdivided unit with her minor child. Once the couple broke up, their child became the most vulnerable and was also the most difficult issue. How to settle the child custody and maintenance issues? The family may fall apart if the mother takes the child back to the Mainland. I hope that the passage of the Bill can reduce their need to undergo the legal procedure of matrimonial or family case. At least the other party does not need to re-litigate in the Mainland under the reciprocal recognition arrangement between the two places, and the impact on both parties and their minor child brought about by divorce can also be lessened. Let me get back to the Bill. After the new legislation takes effect, cases concerning division of property and recovery of maintenance etc. resulting from the divorce of couples who live separately in the two places can also benefit from this legislation.

Last but not the least, I support the Bill, and hope that the Administration can implement it as soon as possible and organize more publicity and promotion 5608 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 activities for the legal professionals, social welfare organizations and people at different levels in Hong Kong and the Mainland so that this legislation can better protect the needy.

I so submit.

MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, since the return of Hong Kong to China, eight mutual legal assistance arrangements in civil and commercial matters have been signed between the HKSAR Government and the Supreme People's Court ("SPC") of the People's Republic of China, one of which is the Arrangement on Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement of Civil Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases by the Courts of the Mainland and of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("the Arrangement") signed on 20 June 2017. The aim of signing the Arrangement is to establish a mechanism for reciprocal recognition and enforcement of civil judgments in matrimonial and family matters between Hong Kong and the Mainland. The Arrangement will be implemented by way of judicial interpretation promulgated by SPC in the Mainland and by way of local legislation in Hong Kong. After the completion of internal procedures, Hong Kong and the Mainland will jointly announce the effective date of the Arrangement.

Therefore, the Department of Justice drafted the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bill") and conducted public consultations in 2019. As it comes to the final stage of consideration by the Council today, I will support the Bill and the amendments put forward by the Government in the hope of expeditiously completing the local legislation work, so that the Arrangement signed with the Mainland can take effect as early as possible to provide for reciprocal recognition and enforcement of most of the judgments in cross-boundary matrimonial and family matters, thereby providing better legal protection for family members concerned, especially minor children, and preventing their legal rights from being affected by cross-boundary factors or the differences between the legal systems of the two places.

As Ms SI Yanli, Deputy Director of the Research Office of the Supreme People's Court of China, said at the press conference held on 22 January this year on the "Report relating to the implementation of mutual legal assistance in civil and commercial matters between the Mainland and the HKSAR", with a closer LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5609 economic tie between Hong Kong and the Mainland, more and more families had properties in both places, and family disputes in cross-boundary marriages have increased drastically. In the past three years, the number of divorce cases filed in the Family Court of Hong Kong was nearly 70 000, 80% of them involved cross-boundary marriages. She expected that once the Arrangement on Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement of Civil Judgements in Matrimonial and Family Cases and the Arrangement on Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement in Civil and Commercial Matters took effect, reciprocal recognition and enforcement could be applied to 90% of the judgments in civil and commercial matters given by the courts of Hong Kong and the Mainland.

Deputy President, I would like to talk about the divorce cases in Hong Kong at present. Amongst the total of 68 374 divorce cases filed in the Family Court of Hong Kong in the past three years, 18% were related to cross-boundary marriages involving the Mainland, i.e. an average of more than 4 000 cases per year. In the past three decades, nearly 1 million people who got married were cross-boundary couples, i.e. nearly 500 000 marriages accumulatively, equivalent to 20% of the total number of Hong Kong households and around 44% of the total number of marriages in Hong Kong. Meanwhile, the divorce rate in Hong Kong keeps rising. Approximately, one out of three couples gets divorced nowadays, making the high divorce rate in Hong Kong rank the seventh in the world. It is believed that many involve cross-boundary marriages.

With the increasingly frequent communications between Hong Kong and the Mainland, and the ongoing active development in Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"), it is expected that cross-boundary marriages and related family disputes will keep increasing. However, there are quite a lot of differences in family laws and procedures between Hong Kong and the Mainland. Although the legal systems of the two places share the same principles of striving to protect the well-being of family members and settling disputes between divorced couples effectively, they differ in areas such as divorce procedures and grounds, dealing with property and child arrangement, therefore, parties in cross-boundary marriage have been facing great difficulties in seeking reciprocal recognition and enforcement of judgments given by the courts of the two places in matrimonial and family disputes.

I believe that you all know a case, the "黎 v 凌" case handled by the Court of Appeal ("CA") in 2017. The court urged the Administration to expeditiously implement the Arrangement through legislation. I would like to talk about the 5610 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 details of this case. In fact, the case highlights various issues in relation to a child taken across the boundary to the Mainland of China unilaterally by one of his parents. In the case, the child was taken by his mother unilaterally to the Mainland, and his father (the petitioner) appealed against the decision of the Court declining to make a final custody order in his favour. Since the custody order handed down by the Hong Kong court could not be enforced in the Mainland directly, the situation was very undesirable. As a result, CA directed the Hong Kong Social Welfare Department ("SWD") to investigate as to the then whereabouts of the child and his living and schooling arrangements. Yet, the mother did not respond to any communications sent to her by SWD, and the father did not agree to pay for the services of the International Social Service, so problems kept arising. CA considered that the Administration should set a target of introducing the concerned legislative proposal to the Legislative Council before the end of 2018. Yet, it is not until today in 2021 that the Bill is ready for consideration at the Council meeting, so I really hope that the legislative item today can be processed as soon as possible.

Deputy President, the Bill seeks to establish mechanisms in Hong Kong for the registration of Mainland judgments with specified orders in matrimonial or family cases, for the recognition of Mainland divorce certificates in Hong Kong, and for the application to Hong Kong courts to certify the relevant Hong Kong judgment in a matrimonial or family case so as to facilitate recognition and enforcement of the concerned judgments in the Mainland. As a result, despite the differences in family laws and procedures between the two places, once the Bill takes effect, I believe that problems such as child custody and division of property can be easily settled under the reciprocal recognition and enforcement mechanism, which will save time and cost, and reduce the emotional distress of the parties.

Deputy President, the implementation of mutual legal assistance arrangements in civil and commercial matters between Hong Kong and the Mainland, including matrimonial and family cases in China covered by the Bill, fully manifests the great strength of the "one country, two systems" principle, upholds the authority of the Basic Law of Hong Kong, and is conducive to maintaining the long-term prosperity and stability of Hong Kong and improving the well-being of Hong Kong people. I hope that after completing this legislation exercise and putting the Arrangement into practice, the HKSAR will proceed to make continuous improvement in the mutual legal assistance mechanism in civil and commercial matters between Hong Kong and the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5611

Mainland, and establish an effective information exchange platform with the Mainland, in a bid to facilitate the mutual legal assistance work between the two places, which will in turn contribute to the development of the Greater Bay Area and our country.

Deputy President, I so submit. I support the Bill and the amendments.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): If not, I now call upon the Secretary for Justice to reply. Then, the debate will come to a close.

SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, on behalf the Government, I would like to thank Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bills Committee"), other committee members and staff of the Secretariat for their efforts in the smooth completion of the scrutiny of the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bill"). The Bills Committee has provided lots of valuable opinions. After careful consideration, we have proposed a few amendments which I will introduce later. I also thank the stakeholders of the legal and other related sectors for their valuable opinions and support for the Bill.

As I pointed out when I moved the Second Reading of the Bill in December last year, the Bill seeks to give effect to the Arrangement on Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement of Civil Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases by the Courts of the Mainland and of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("the Arrangement") signed between the HKSAR Government and the Supreme People's Court ("SPC") on 20 June 2017.

The Bill will be applicable to judgments given on or after the commencement of the Bill by Mainland or Hong Kong courts in matrimonial or family cases, and Mainland divorce certificates issued on or after the commencement of the Bill. The Bill mainly provides for a registration 5612 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 mechanism, under which a party is allowed to apply to a Hong Kong court for recognition and enforcement of specified orders in a Mainland judgment given in a matrimonial or family case, or recognition of a divorce certificate issued by the civil administration departments in the Mainland.

As regards recognition or enforcement by a Mainland court of a Hong Kong judgment given in a matrimonial or family case, SPC will promulgate a judicial interpretation to implement the Arrangement. In order to facilitate a party to a Hong Kong judgment given in a matrimonial or family case in applying to a Mainland court for recognition and enforcement of a Hong Kong judgment, the Bill also provides for a mechanism to allow a party to a Hong Kong judgment to apply to a Hong Kong court for a certified copy of and a certificate for the Hong Kong judgment.

As I mentioned in my speech when I moved the Second Reading of the Bill, the Bill includes some very important points to concerned parties, one of which is about the wrongful removal of a Hong Kong child to the Mainland, or wrongful detention of the child in the Mainland by a party, under the new mechanism, the other party can seek a Mainland court's assistance in the return or delivery of the child under a relevant Hong Kong court order.

The Bills Committee held a total of four meetings from January to March this year to examine in detail the provisions of the Bill. I am delighted to know that Members are in support of the Bill.

I will move the Committee stage amendments later which are mainly technical or corresponding amendments that cover three areas. The Bills Committee raised no objection to them. I will give a brief account of the details of the amendments at the Committee stage.

As I mentioned when I submitted the Bill to the Legislative Council, with cross-boundary marriages becoming more and more common, there is an actual need in society to establish a mechanism for reciprocal recognition and enforcement of judgments in matrimonial and family matters between Hong Kong and the Mainland. After the Arrangement and the Bill take effect, once a party to a matrimonial or family case obtains a judgment handed down by a court in either place, they can get speedy judicial redress under the new mechanism. This can reduce the need for re-litigation in the court of the other place, and hence save time and cost, and reduce the pressure from litigation.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5613

Should the Bill be passed, the Judiciary will make rules to complement the operation of the Bill, and the Government will liaise with SPC concerning the announcement of the Arrangement and its commencement date. Publicity activities such as seminars will be organized to enhance the understanding of the newly established mechanism for reciprocal recognition and enforcement among the legal sector and the general public of the two places.

Deputy President, with these remarks, I urge Members to support the Second Reading of the Bill and the amendments I will move later.

Thank you, Deputy President.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill be read the Second time. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the motion passed.

CLERK (in Cantonese): Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill.

Council became committee of the whole Council.

5614 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Consideration by Committee of the Whole Council

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): This Council now becomes committee of the whole Council to consider the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill.

Members may refer to the Appendix to the Script for the debate and voting arrangements for the Bill.

MAINLAND JUDGMENTS IN MATRIMONIAL AND FAMILY CASES (RECIPROCAL RECOGNITION AND ENFORCEMENT) BILL

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Members have been informed that the committee will conduct a joint debate on the clauses, schedules and amendments.

I now propose the question to you and that is: That the following clauses and schedules stand part of the Bill.

CLERK (in Cantonese): Clauses 1 to 42, and Schedules 1 to 4.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The Secretary for Justice will move amendments which seek to amend clauses 2, 8, 11, 16, 17, 19, 24 and 26, and Schedules 2 and 3.

Members may refer to the Appendix to the Script for details of the amendments.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Members may now proceed to a joint debate on the clauses, schedules and amendments.

I will first call upon the Secretary to speak, but she is not required to move the amendments at this stage. Then I will call upon Members to speak.

Upon the conclusion of the joint debate, the committee will first vote on the clauses and schedules with no amendment standing part of the Bill, and then the amendments.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5615

SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I will move the amendments later to amend the clauses of the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill ("the Bill"). The amendments have been included in the document distributed to Members.

As I mentioned earlier, the amendments are mainly technical or corresponding amendments. In a nutshell, they seek to enable the general public to better understand the provisions of the Bill, and to reflect the Bill's policy intent more clearly and its coverage more precisely. I will briefly introduce the three areas covered by the amendments as follows.

First, by accepting Members' views, we will use "狀況相關命令", "看顧 相關命令" and "贍養相關命令" as the Chinese corresponding terms of the English definition terms "status-related order", "care-related order" and "maintenance-related order" respectively. Since the Chinese term "相關" is more commonly used in daily life, it is believed that substituting it for "攸關" can enable the general public to better understand the provisions of the Bill.

Second, the Bills Committee suggested that the text of clause 11(4) of the Bill should be amended to better reflect the policy intent. After examining the concerned provision, we propose to amend clause 11 of the Bill to stipulate more clearly that in respect of maintenance-related orders that require a payment or an act to be made or performed periodically, when a Hong Kong court makes a registration order, it covers not only those periodic obligations to make payments or perform acts which have become overdue before the application date, but also future periodic obligations to pay or perform an act which will become due on or after the application date. Upon further default of a periodic obligation in future, the judgment creditor does not need to apply to a Hong Kong court for registration of the order again but may directly proceed to make an application to the court for execution of such order.

Third, in order to better reflect the coverage of the Bill, we propose to amend the Bill by not using the term "子女" in Chinese and "child" in English in certain provisions. This is because the term "child" ("子女") may connote that the "child" is the "son" ("[兒]子") or "daughter" ("女[兒]") of a party to the dispute. Such connotation does not align with the meaning actually covered by the term "child" ("子女") in Schedules 2 and 3 to the Bill, for example, its coverage can include an order that provides for a grandparent to bear the 5616 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 obligations of custody or maintenance to a minor grandchild ("孫子女" or "外孫 子女") (i.e. not their own child ("子女")). As a result, we also propose corresponding amendments to clauses 16, 17 and 26, and to the English version of some provisions in which the term "child" is used.

The Bills Committee raised no objection to the amendments above. I implore Members to support the amendments. Thank you, Deputy Chairman.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The committee now first votes on the clauses and schedules with no amendment standing part of the Bill.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I put the question to you and that is: That clauses 1, 3 to 7, 9, 10, 12 to 15, 18, 20 to 23, 25, 27 to 42, and Schedules 1 and 4 stand part of the Bill. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the motion passed.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The committee now votes on the amendments.

Secretary for Justice, you may move your amendments.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5617

SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I move the amendments set out in the Appendix to the Script.

Proposed amendments

Clause 2 (See Annex I)

Clause 8 (See Annex I)

Clause 11 (See Annex I)

Clause 16 (See Annex I)

Clause 17 (See Annex I)

Clause 19 (See Annex I)

Clause 24 (See Annex I)

Clause 26 (See Annex I)

Schedule 2 (See Annex I)

Schedule 3 (See Annex I)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendments moved by the Secretary for Justice be passed.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

5618 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the amendments passed.

CLERK (in Cantonese): Clauses 2, 8, 11, 16, 17, 19, 24 and 26, and Schedules 2 and 3 as amended.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the clauses and schedules as amended just read out by the Clerk stand part of the Bill. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the motion passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): All the proceedings on the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill have been concluded in committee of the whole Council. Council now resumes.

Council then resumed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5619

SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I now report to the Council: That the

Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill has been passed by committee of the whole Council with amendments. I move the motion that "This Council adopts the report".

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by the Secretary for Justice be passed.

In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, this motion shall be voted on without amendment or debate.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the motion passed.

Third Reading of Government Bill

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government Bill: Third Reading.

5620 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

MAINLAND JUDGMENTS IN MATRIMONIAL AND FAMILY CASES (RECIPROCAL RECOGNITION AND ENFORCEMENT) BILL

SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move that the

Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill be read the Third time and do pass.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill be read the Third time and do pass. Does any Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the motion passed.

CLERK (in Cantonese): Mainland Judgments in Matrimonial and Family Cases (Reciprocal Recognition and Enforcement) Bill.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5621

GOVERNMENT MOTIONS

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government motions. The Chief Secretary for Administration will move two proposed resolutions under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance and the Coroners Ordinance respectively:

First motion: To approve the Criminal Procedure (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021; and

Second motion: To approve the Coroners (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021.

Members have been informed that as the two motions both seek to increase the maximum allowances payable to the witnesses in criminal proceedings and coroners' inquests, this Council will proceed to a joint debate on the two motions.

Upon the conclusion of the debate, this Council will put to vote the two motions one by one.

I remind Members that the joint debate (including voting) may last for a maximum of four hours, and each Member may speak once up to a maximum of five minutes.

The joint debate now begins. Members who wish to speak please press the "Request to speak" button.

I now call upon the Chief Secretary to speak on the two motions and move the first motion.

PROPOSED RESOLUTION UNDER THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ORDINANCE

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move that the first Resolution standing in my name on the Agenda be passed to seek the approval of the Legislative Council for the Criminal Procedure (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021 made by the Criminal Procedure Rules Committee under section 9B of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance. I will also shortly be moving the second Resolution standing in my 5622 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 name be passed to seek the approval of the Legislative Council for the Coroners (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021 made by the Chief Justice under section 54 of the Coroners Ordinance.

At present, the maximum allowance payable to ordinary witnesses in criminal proceedings and coroners' inquests is $575 for each day of attendance or $285 for not exceeding four hours of attendance. The maximum allowance for professional and expert witnesses is higher, at $3,065 for each day of attendance or $1,530 for not exceeding four hours of attendance.

Under the adjustment mechanism approved by the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council, changes to the rate of allowance for ordinary witnesses would be made in accordance with the movements in the overall Median Monthly Employment Earnings of Employees ("MMEE") in Hong Kong while those for professional and expert witnesses would be made in accordance with the changes in the mid-point salary of a Government Medical and Health Officer. The Finance Committee has also delegated the authority to approve the relevant adjustments to the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury.

The existing rates of allowances were set in January 2020 based on the biennial review conducted in 2018. The Judiciary Administration ("JA") reviewed the rates of allowances in 2020. Taking into account the movements in the overall MMEE and the mid-point salary of a Government Medical and Health Officer from the third quarter of 2018 to the third quarter of 2020, the JA proposed and the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury approved to increase the maximum rate of allowance for ordinary witnesses from $575 to $615 for each day of attendance and from $285 to $305 for not exceeding four hours of attendance. For professional and expert witnesses, the maximum rate of allowance would be increased from $3,065 to $3,210 for each day of attendance and from $1,530 to $1,600 for not exceeding four hours of attendance. These adjustments aim to maintain the real value of the rates of allowances to minimize any financial loss suffered by members of the public testifying as witnesses in courts.

The Criminal Procedure (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021 and the Coroners (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021 seek to implement the new rates of allowances. I invite Members to approve these two Resolutions. Thank you, Deputy President.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5623

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved the following motion:

"RESOLVED that the Criminal Procedure (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021, made by the Criminal Procedures Rules Committee on 1 April 2021, be approved."

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the first motion moved by the Chief Secretary for Administration be passed.

Does any Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This Council now first votes on the first motion moved by the Chief Secretary for Administration.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the first motion moved by the Chief Secretary for Administration be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the motion passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, you may move your second motion.

5624 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

PROPOSED RESOLUTION UNDER THE CORONERS ORDINANCE

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move that my second motion, as printed on the Agenda, be passed.

The Chief Secretary for Administration moved the following motion:

"RESOLVED that the Coroners (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2021", made by the Chief Justice on 1 April 2021, be approved."

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the second motion moved by the Chief Secretary for Administration be passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of the Members present.

I declare the motion passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5625

MEMBER'S BILL

Second Reading of Member's Bill

Resumption of Second Reading Debate on Member's Bill

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Member's Bill. This Council resumes the Second Reading debate on the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021.

WATERWORKS (WATERWORKS REGULATIONS) (AMENDMENT) BILL 2021

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 17 March 2021

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any Member wish to speak?

MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, today I rise to speak in support of the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 ("the Bill") introduced by Ms Alice MAK. The reason behind my support for the Bill is very simple and can be summarized in these words: fairness and justice.

It is a well-known fact that landlords of subdivided units impose all sorts of charges on their tenants. Rents aside, there are fees for water, electricity and other miscellaneous items, and the rates they charge for the sale of water and electricity are much higher than those charged by the Water Supplies Department ("WSD") and the power companies. Not only are the tenants generally deprived of the free supply of the first 12 cubic metres of water, but are also required to pay their landlords water fees varying from $15 to $18 per cubic metre, which are several times higher than the rate of $4 to $9 per cubic metre as specified by WSD. This is why it has been clearly pointed out in the report recently published by the Task Force for the Study on Tenancy Control of Subdivided Units that the median rate for water paid by residents of subdivided units is $13 per unit of water, which is triple the rate charged by WSD.

5626 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Furthermore, tenants have no way finding out whether the readings of the water meters are accurate. Sometimes, the amounts payable by them are simply determined by their landlords, while some landlords will require their tenants to pay a fixed monthly water fee ranging from $300 to $400. I have been serving the community for years and have paid frequent visits to local residents and tenants of subdivided units. I have been told that apart from the high rents, additional fees such as those for water and electricity are also sky-high. According to them, the rate charged for each unit of water is $15 to $16, or even $20 in some cases. Without individual water meters―like what I said just now―they are required to pay whatever amount their landlords charge them for the use of water, probably several hundred dollars each month. Adding this up with other expenses like electricity fees and miscellaneous fees which have yet been counted, the total amount payable by them each month―exclusive of the rent―can easily reach $1,000 per month. What is worse, during summer, the peak season of water and electricity consumption, the corresponding expenses will go even higher. Moreover, some tenants have complained to me that even with individual water meters installed, they are unable to read the meters as their landlords have locked the meters up to deny their access to the meters, and the rate at which they are charged for the water used is not the same as that of WSD. I was once told by a tenant that though he had returned to his hometown for almost a month―in other words, he had not used any water at all―his landlord still charged him a considerable amount of water fee, and it was just a few dozen dollars less than the usual amount.

We have received quite a number of complaints about the overcharging of water and electricity fees, and we have asked departments like WSD to look squarely at and deal with these complaints. But the results, I would say, are not just unimpressive but very disappointing. A few months ago, while having a meeting with officials from WSD, I asked about … Representatives of WSD are not present here today, but a lot of matters actually concern WSD, for example, the follow-up work about Bishop Hill which is quite unsatisfactory … Regarding those complaints, I asked WSD about the results and was finally told that due to various reasons, the number of cases successfully prosecuted over all these years was zero. Zero! This is really unacceptable.

While the existing Waterworks Regulations have expressly prohibited the sale of water, landlords are permitted to have discretion over the determination of water fees imposed on their tenants. Many landlords have claimed that the water fees collected by them include other expenses such as those for plumbing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5627 repair and maintenance. There thus exist contradictions and loopholes in the current legislation, and for this reason, I support this legislative amendment exercise.

The contents of the legislative amendment mainly seek to provide that anyone who sells or supplies water to another person at a price exceeding the specified charges for water commits an offence and is punishable by a fine at level 3. As I just mentioned, it is really necessary for WSD to think about how it should actually enforce the new legislation after it comes into operation. Apart from receiving complaints, shouldn't WSD also conduct investigation against the complaints? For the substantiated ones, shouldn't it take prosecution actions? What concerns me most, however, is the limited protection available to tenants of subdivided units, a fact that everyone knows. Afraid of the consequence of eviction, tenants of subdivided units are shy of lodging complaints on their own initiative, and count on the relevant departments to conduct investigations. But then, are the relevant departments able to get this task done? As many ordinances rely on enforcement by the Government, I just wonder if they have been effectively enforced. Therefore, I hope that the relevant departments will consider increasing the manpower for random inspection and evidence collection. Otherwise, this piece of legislation will end up becoming a "toothless tiger", which is the very last thing we want to see. Therefore, I urge the authorities to keep a close watch by conducting a questionnaire survey to understand the actual situation and having a review some time later to find out about the progress after the amended ordinance has come into operation.

In addition, I also hope that the authorities can expeditiously put the new regulations into implementation and make publicity efforts upon the passage of this legislation by this Council today. All that we aim to achieve is to put a full stop to the profit-making practice of overcharging water fees which some unscrupulous landlords use―actually this is not the case for most landlords but just some of them who are devious―in the hope of alleviating the burden of subdivided unit residents.

Honestly, issues concerning subdivided units are certainly not limited to the overcharging of water and electricity fees and other miscellaneous fees, but include issues that constantly draw our attention such as the exceedingly high rent, poor upkeep of buildings, drainage and fire safety problems, and unhygienic environment. All these are long-standing issues that require us to tackle head-on one by one, and I thus wish to reiterate the urgency and pressing need for 5628 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 legislation on tenancy control of subdivided units. This is just as important as this Bill which concerns water fees.

Deputy President, in April, the Government submitted a paper on tenancy control of subdivided units in which the report prepared by the task force concerned was partially set out. Accepting the various legislative amendments proposed by the task force, the Government stated that it would expeditiously introduce the bill concerned into the Legislative Council in the current legislative session. I hope that the Government can get this done as soon as possible, because at present … Apart from regulating water fees, I also hope that the Government can implement tenancy control on subdivided units, so as to help tenants of these units who are mostly from the grass roots. Now, under the pandemic, they are actually in deep water, suffering the double jeopardy of both underemployment―or unemployment―and the need to pay high rents. Therefore, we should expeditiously complete the legislative work on tenancy control of subdivided units to provide protection for the tenants.

A number of subdivided unit residents have told me that their written agreements with their landlords are not standard ones―actually, it also has something to do with water fees―and upon completion of the first agreement, they only received a tiny piece of paper―an agreement, as their landlords call it―on which terms and conditions like the calculation of water and electricity fees were missed out. This is really unsatisfactory. Though officials of the relevant government departments are not here today, I still wish to raise this point. I hope the Government will take this into account while dealing with issues about subdivided units, because problems about the environmental hygiene and the problematic connection of drainage pipes of subdivided units are rather serious at the moment. Two days ago, Tsim Sha Tsui just saw another lockdown, and this has shown―something very worrying to us―that we will be the ultimate victims of the improper fitting of environmental hygiene facilities in the buildings in old districts.

Deputy President, it is definitely impossible to resolve issues concerning subdivided units overnight. Nor can they be completely eradicated after the introduction of tenancy control over subdivided units. But now, it is the opportune moment to deal with the relevant issues.

Deputy President, this Bill will provide the Government with the legal backing for regulation and enforcement. Earlier, WSD has undertaken to set up a hotline for reporting cases of subdivided unit tenants being overcharged for LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5629 water, so as to step up its enforcement efforts in tandem with this legislative amendment exercise. But, as I just said, notwithstanding the complaints about the overcharging of water fees seen―this is nothing new at all―and received over the past two years, WSD has taken prosecution action against none of them. Secretary, it is great that you are here. Perhaps, you really have to instruct WSD to institute prosecutions against substantiated cases rather than engaging in empty talk, given that the Government has already enacted relevant legislation. These days, subdivided unit residents are faced with complicated tenancy matters which involve not only renewal of tenancy, but also the overcharging of water and electricity fees, residential safety, environmental hygiene, and maintenance responsibilities. When having disputes with their landlords, subdivided unit tenants often find themselves in situations where there is the problem of fragmentary responsibilities among government departments. They have no way to lodge complaints and no law to resort to.

While the Government, as I know, is trying to help the subdivided unit tenants in various ways―I wish to thank the Secretary for the earlier introduction of the Building Drainage System Repair Subsidy Scheme which has been open for application since 1 May―what it does is still far from sufficient. Just take the overcharging of water fees as an example. There is simply no avenue for subdivided unit tenants to lodge complaints against it. So, in my view, regulation, enforcement and implementation of measures are the most important to the legislation amended this time and the legislation to be enacted on tenancy control on subdivided units in the future. Failing to do these will reduce the legislation to empty words which serve no actual function in solving problems.

Deputy President, given the 100 000 subdivided unit tenants in Hong Kong at present, the existing mechanism alone cannot adequately deal with the relevant tenancy matters and the problem of fragmentary responsibilities among government departments. It is my hope that the authorities will set up a dedicated working group or department to take charge of the follow-up and oversight of different needs which may arise in the future, irrespective of their relevance to this ordinance which is related to water fees. Meanwhile, the authorities should consolidate the tenancy issues currently handled by different departments, and then leave them to the dedicated working group or department in charge of tenancy control of subdivided units, so as to ensure effective implementation of the legislation concerned.

Deputy President, I support Ms Alice MAK's motion. I so submit.

5630 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, regarding the Member's Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK, first, I will of course support it; second, I wish to congratulate Ms MAK on its introduction. We have been Members of the Legislative Council for many terms, the Deputy President may also agree that it has been extremely rare for a Member to be able to introduce a Member's Bill to the Legislative Council. I have attempted to introduce three Member's Bills to the Legislative Council, two of which were closely related to livelihood issues, including fire safety, but all of my attempts failed in the end due to disagreement by the Government. So I hope that the green light given to Ms MAK's Member's Bill this time is a sign of goodwill gesture by the Government in the run-up to the strengthening of an executive-led system.

The purpose of the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 is to prohibit overcharging of water fees by landlords of subdivided units, which is only the tip of the iceberg as far as the problems of subdivided units are concerned. It is just one of the many problems. Nevertheless, in my opinion, the breakthrough made by Ms MAK in introducing her Member's Bill against all odds is worthy of our discussion.

Under section 47(2) of the current Waterworks Regulations ("the Regulations"), the landlord can charge for the cost of water supplied to the tenant by the internal water supply system of the premise, which may also include other related fees, such as the expenses for the repairing and maintenance of the internal water supply system etc. I will talk about this in the last part of my speech.

Ms Alice MAK opined that the Regulations in their current form in a way allow some landlords of subdivided units to randomly set the amounts of water fees to be paid by their tenants. Of course, we all know, particularly as Members of the Legislative Council, that most landlords would overcharge various fees. Otherwise, it would not have been possible for the amount to always be rounded to a whole number after average calculations. According to many public opinion surveys, most grass-roots families know very little about their rights. They would pay the amounts as demanded by their landlords. It is like what we saw on TV when we were young the collection of rents by the landlady from the tenants who lived in constant worry of being kicked out of their homes.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5631

Nearly 100% of those surveyed did not pay their water fees directly to the Water Supplies Department, 100% of them. Instead, they paid their fees to the landlords or subletting agents. About 10% of those surveyed did not have the slightest idea that the consumption of the first 12 cubic meters of water in each billing period was free.

Gentlemen love fortune, in a proper way. Hong Kong is a capitalist society. I absolutely understand private property rights or the fact that some people may invest in and even operate subdivided units, which is also a form of investment. In the absence of legislation to prohibit the operation of subdivided units in Hong Kong, some landlords have taken full advantage of the loopholes in this area, and we can do nothing about it. However, from the perspective of human feelings and reasoning, against the background of an appalling housing problem in Hong Kong, the additional burden of excessive water and electricity charges on the tenants of subdivided units has made them even more miserable.

As mentioned by some Members just now, the Government had set up a hotline for receiving complaints about overcharging of fees by owners of subdivided units, which is liable on conviction to a fine of $10,000. However, the fact is, as told by many tenants, that such complaints often did not result in prosecutions by the Department of Justice. The Government has explained that under the law, owners are allowed to charge their tenants other reasonable expenses on top of the amounts listed on the water bills, such as those for the repairing and maintenance of the water supply system. These are interrelated matters, but if owners of subdivided units overcharge the fees for profit, it is quite difficult to bring prosecutions against them now. We can only accuse such owners of being immoral, unethical and lacking empathy. Of course, it is difficult for those who always think about how to make more money to have empathy and we can only deal with them through legislation.

I consider it a good start for a Member to be able to introduce a Member's Bill this time, which coincides with the possible introduction of tenancy control for subdivided units. The Government has recently approached us to lobby for our support for the tenancy control, which we will support. However, I am concerned about several matters. First of all, we do hope to alleviate the financial pressure on tenants of subdivided units, but I wish to make it clear to the Government that I do not want to see subdivided units become part of the housing ladder. Otherwise, it will give the Government a better excuse to legitimize the existence of subdivided units in the future. It is because there have been successive huge fires involving subdivided units, especially in Kowloon West 5632 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 where I have served for many years, resulting in casualties. One such incident had claimed eight or nine lives. In the recent inferno in Yau Ma Tei, nearly 10 people of Nepalese origin lost their lives.

In such circumstances, it is not just a matter concerning fees or the inherent problem with subdivided units being included as part of the housing ladder, it also has safety concerns, for example, the loading problem arising from the subdivision of a flat by the owner into subdivided units, each of which has its own toilet. This is what I am most worried about. I will definitely support any improvement recommendation. However, any future attempt to include subdivided units as part of the housing ladder will not have my support.

I remember that when the Development Bureau discussed the issue of tenancy control for subdivided units the last time, I expressed the aforementioned worries. Deputy President, most importantly, I very much wish to tell the Government that whenever talking about subdivided units, improvements to the mechanism and laws, I hope that they will see things from a higher perspective. For example, we talked to the Transport and Housing Bureau on numerous occasions and even brought Secretary to Shek Kip Mei which is an old area with a large piece of open space. What is needed is the removal of barriers and relaxation of restrictions by the Government. What I mean by "relaxation of restrictions" are those concerning local rehousing arrangements in addition to building heights. However, the Government just gave a bureaucratic reply that "We cannot do that. Local residents have to join the queue and go through the means test again", which was of course opposed by all local residents.

Removal of barriers and relaxation of restrictions refer to its mindset and thinking which should not be too rigid and should be revitalized. The Secretary for Development is here, so is the Secretary for Transport and Housing. It is not a matter for the Development Bureau alone. The Government's response to this issue was rather indifferent, saying that it could not do anything as the system had been there. Nevertheless, the system must be changed. Deputy President, the Legislative Council is also partly to blame. The Government should remove barriers by allowing the reconstruction of many old buildings, particularly those public housing blocks aged more than 40 or 50 years. For example, some public housing blocks in Shek Kip Mei are rather dilapidated with serious concrete spalling problems. However, the Government insists that they must join the queue under its policy which cannot be relaxed and changed. So let them be LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5633 there, which has contributed to the advent of subdivided units. I know all of these. Whenever I talked about the subject of subdivided units in Yau Tsim Mong District, half of the residents were in favour of their existence while the other half strongly opposed that because the former could not afford a decent home, nor did they want to live in remote areas, the only choice for them was to rent a subdivided unit.

Therefore, I wish to tell the Secretary that the ultimate solution lies in increasing the supply of public housing, which will enable the grass roots and those relatively less well-off to move into public housing more quickly. The targets in connection with removal of barriers and relaxation of restrictions are the Hong Kong Housing Society and the Hong Kong Housing Authority under the control of the Government itself. These are the two giant bureaucratic institutions which are blamed for creating many barriers. I hope that when we truly have a healthier legislative platform and the Government is able to function under a genuine executive-led system, we will overcome them and do more good things for the public as we will not have to discuss in a piecemeal approach the improvements to such problems as the overcharging of water fees by owners of subdivided units.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MR WILSON OR (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I am very thankful to Ms Alice MAK for introducing this private bill, which seeks to plug loopholes in the existing legislation and rectify the wrong done.

There are nearly 110 000 households living in subdivided units now, and some of them are subject to excessive rental increases by unscrupulous landlords, who have even gone so far as to fabricate various reasons to overcharge their tenants for their water and electricity consumption. This is indeed an unfortunate situation in our society. The Waterworks Regulations ("the Regulations") were enacted as early as in the 1970s to provide for various requirements for supplying water, including the statutory regime for charging water tariffs. The Government has upheld the principle of "small government, big market" all these years, but changes in the social environment have brought about many new modes of dwelling, thus highlighting the problem with water charges. People have to bear an increasingly heavy burden of exorbitant rents, but their living environment is getting more and more cramped and crowded, 5634 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 culminating with the advent of subdivided units, "coffin-sized units" and capsule-like accommodation. Deputy President, please allow me to show to the Secretary this picture, so that he may imagine how it feels to live in "shoebox" homes like subdivided units. The unit in this picture has accommodated a family of four, and the children have to do their homework in bed, while a table has to be placed on the bed for taking meals. This is the problem of subdivided units we are facing now.

It is really saddening that there are still so many grass-roots people residing in inadequate housing today, and in my opinion, housing problem involves not only the issue of subdivided units but also the poverty problem. As a matter of fact, some heartless landlords of subdivided units have even tried to extract every single penny from the pockets of their tenants by overcharging water charges. Apart from not specifying in the tenancy agreement that a surcharge will be imposed or a standardized scale will be adopted when determining the charges, a minimum charge will even be prescribed so that tenants will have to pay high water charges anyway. Such means to make profits have rendered tenants of subdivided units defenceless and subjected them to exploitation, and it is the sad story of Hong Kong. If we do not give our support to the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 ("the Bill") today, we should feel ashamed of ourselves before grass-roots people residing in subdivided units because we have ignored their difficulties. The problem and the wrong done must be rectified.

Deputy President, judging from the original provisions and the legislative intent of the Regulations, very clear requirements have in fact been laid down to prohibit sale of water by any person without permission, and this has already been expressly provided for under regulation 47(1) of the subsidiary legislation. However, there is a loophole because the regulation shall not apply to a consumer of an inside service who recovers the cost of water from any occupier of the premises in which the inside service exists. In other words, unscrupulous landlords of subdivided units can rack their brains for excuses to extract every cent from their tenants by charging additional fees. I really find this neither agreeable nor acceptable.

I think the Government actually knows very well that there are people reaping profits by overcharging water fees, but it has chosen to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the situation most of the time, and pretends that it knows nothing and can do nothing about it. Frankly speaking, under such circumstances, the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5635

Government can hardly protect the right to adequate housing of grass-roots people, and safeguard their entitled rights and interests. It is however a hard fact that many unscrupulous landlords have resorted to different means and found all sorts of excuses to exploit their tenants, such as the trick mentioned just now to include the costs of internal maintenance works of the premises in the water fees. This is very strange indeed because landlords are supposed to be responsible for all maintenance works, and why has it become necessary to charge tenants for such costs on various excuses?

The situation is so common that all subdivided unit tenants I met during my neighbourhood visits have complained to me about the problem. When attending a meeting with households living in subdivided units arranged by the Public Complaints Office yesterday, one of the families there has left a very deep impression on me. The head of the household told me that when signing the tenancy agreement, his landlord had given no explanation for the computation method of water charges but subsequently, he was told that he could not use his washing machine, unless the charges for the water used by the washing machine were calculated according to the method proposed by the landlord. I think that this is utterly unacceptable nowadays.

Hence, it is hoped that with the introduction of the Bill by Ms Alice MAK, the Government will be made aware of the need to make conscientious efforts to address the problem, and be prompted to give more thoughts to the issue of what it should do to get the related problems resolved.

Deputy President, I have all along been following up on the issue of inadequate housing. What left me with a deep impression was that I once visited a household living in a subdivided unit together with Secretary for Transport and Housing Frank CHAN, and that family of four was living in a unit with an area of less than 100 sq ft, but its monthly rent was as high as $6,000. As I mentioned earlier, the children had to do their homework in bed, a table had to be placed on the bed for having meals, and the living condition of the family was so undesirable that both Secretary Frank CHAN and I were saddened and had tears in our eyes. I often wonder if this is the housing problem we must face in Hong Kong nowadays.

I honestly think that the Government does have the determination to tackle the problem, but the measures adopted are not forceful enough. Efforts have been made by the SAR Government, the Development Bureau as well as the 5636 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Transport and Housing Bureau in this respect, and they have accepted many suggestions put forward by the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong ("DAB"). Measures have already been adopted by the authorities to render assistance to grass-roots people with the provision of cash subsidies, and with regard to our suggestion of introducing tenancy control on subdivided units to curb rent increase, the Government has also acceded to the request and control measures in this respect will soon be imposed on subdivided units. When it comes to the shortage of housing supply, both the Secretary for Development as well as the Secretary for Transport and Housing have endeavoured to identify land in the territory for housing construction and increase transitional housing supply, and these efforts are there for all to see.

However, the core problem lies in the need for the Secretary to urge his colleagues to duly perform their gate-keeping duties, and this is my earnest and well-meaning advice. We are faced with many problems but I do not think they can be solved by the Government alone, and all sectors in the community, including every colleague present here, should come up with solutions. Yet, the most important thing is that the Government is willing to implement them, and only by doing so can it attract proposals from all sectors and have problems resolved through joint efforts. I hope the Government will take the initiative to conduct a review on different laws and propose the necessary legislative amendments, rather than waiting until the introduction of a private bill by Ms Alice MAK before actions are taken to tackle the problem, and such an attitude is absolutely unacceptable to me.

Deputy President, I would also like to remind the Secretary that as the subordinates always have countermeasures against the policies of their superiors, colleagues in the Development Bureau must decisively enforce the law after the passage and enactment of the Bill, so as to strengthen prosecution actions and stringently combat offences in this respect. If the authorities do not enforce the law after the enactment of legislation, the relevant laws will be rendered nothing but merely "toothless tigers". Besides, I would also like to remind colleagues in the Development Bureau to handle the publicity work properly. As I have always said, even with the formulation of extremely sound policies, such efforts will become futile if the authorities fail to make adequate publicity and take pragmatic actions to ensure that grass-roots people are deeply aware of the measures implemented. The Government should therefore enhance its publicity work, so that most unscrupulous landlords will not dare to resort to malpractices.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5637

I also understand that a new law will necessarily lead to a new problem, and although we fully understand the need to enact this piece of legislation, we do believe that after the passage of the Bill, people will definitely come up with countermeasures against the policies implemented as I mentioned just now. There will inevitably be some unscrupulous landlords who try to fabricate various reasons through different means to overcharge their tenants again. Ms Alice MAK is nodding, and I think she also agrees with my views. I therefore hope that the Secretary will play the gate-keeping role and pay close attention to market changes, thereby preventing a small number of unscrupulous landlords from finding loopholes in the system after the new legislative requirements have been put in place, and identifying new opportunities to go on reaping huge profits.

However, the most sustainable solution is what I have put forward to the Secretary in the oral question session this morning, and as Mr HAN Zheng, one of our national leaders and the Vice Premier of the State Council, has also expressed concern about the housing problem in Hong Kong, the most important task for the authorities is to identify land for housing production in a comprehensive manner, so that people can see hope. Secretary, many grass-roots people can see no hope now because the waiting time for public rental housing is as long as 5.7 years and is about to exceed 6 years, while there are almost 600 000 applicants on the Waiting List. How can they find hope under such circumstances? I think it is very important to give hope to our people.

Nevertheless, in the course of identifying land for housing production, the SAR Government is really lagging far behind, and I hope the Secretary will try hard to expedite the process. By proposing to set up a task force earlier today, my objective is to clear the backlog of a large number of urgent cases. As pointed out by Vice Premier HAN Zheng, a social consensus should first of all be reached, and decisive and sweeping measures can then be taken to resolve the problem gradually with sophisticated top-level design and long-term planning. Secretary, an extensive consensus has already been reached in the community on this issue, and the Government will be able to tackle various problems as long as decisions can be made with determination.

Deputy President, let me reiterate once again that it is my hope that the Bill will be passed as soon as possible, and that the Government will speed up implementation of the new initiatives, so as to reduce the impact caused to grass-roots tenants of subdivided units during the vacuum period. It is also my hope that all responsible landlords can start from themselves, show to various sectors of the community clearly that they are not represented by that small group of unscrupulous landlords, declare openly their support for the Government as 5638 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 well as the private bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK, and give a ray of hope for resolving this problem.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I reiterate that both DAB and I support the passage of the Bill. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of the resumption of the Second Reading debate on the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 ("the Bill").

I must first explain that the Bill is a private bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK, a Member of this Council, with the purpose of prohibiting landlords of private properties, especially unscrupulous landlords of subdivided units, from overcharging grass-roots tenants for water. As the Bill is related to government policies, the written consent of the Chief Executive must be obtained in accordance with Article 74 of the Basic Law before it can be officially introduced into this Council.

To my understanding, the government departments concerned were slightly reluctant to support the introduction of the Bill at first, but as the problem of subdivided units is becoming more and more serious in Hong Kong, and it is getting more and more common for unscrupulous landlords to overcharge their tenants for water, the Government has finally decided to give its support to the legislative proposal. The Chief Executive has signed and given a written consent for proceeding with the introduction of this private bill by Ms Alice MAK, instead of following the previous practice of including a legislative proposal put forward by a Member into the Government's Legislative Programme for the introduction of a Government bill.

This has not only indicated the Government's willingness to listen to public opinions and accept constructive suggestions from Members but also reflected the improvements in the relationship between the executive authorities and the legislature, especially after Members of the "mutual destruction camp" have left this legislature and the Legislative Council has resumed normal operations. With further improvement to the electoral and parliamentary systems of Hong Kong, I hope the Government will on the one hand manifest its executive-led administration in a more positive, decisive and proactive manner, and strengthen communication with the Legislative Council on the other hand to listen carefully to the views of Members, so that we can all work together with our heart and soul for the well-being of Hong Kong people.

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Let me go back to the details of the Bill. The existing Waterworks Regulations have expressly prohibited property owners from selling water provided from the waterworks, but a consumer of an inside service who collects or recovers the cost of water from any person who uses water in the premises in which the inside service exists is exempted. The legislative amendments proposed by Ms Alice MAK seek to stipulate that landlords may only recover from their tenants charges for water in accordance with the rates specified by the Water Supplies Department, and that it will be an offence to overcharge water fees by even a single cent above the rates specified. It is hoped that the introduction of these amendments will eliminate the problem of especially unscrupulous landlords of subdivided units overcharging tenants for water consumption.

The legislative amendments are proposed with a good intention, and the provisions are drafted in a rather simple manner. Yet, regrettably, things are not that simple in the real world. As landlords are prohibited from overcharging water fees, they will fabricate various reasons. For example, they may charge their tenants extra fees, like those for maintenance, cleaning service or additional management, will these be allowed? We can of course suggest that tenants always have the right to refuse payment of these additional charges, but will landlords then choose not to lease their properties to such tenants? Subdivided units are after all in short supply, making them much sough-after in the market and command good rents.

Besides, if the inside service of a subdivided unit or even the unit itself is an unauthorized structure, the tenant will be worried about being suspended water supply or even evicted from the unit if he lodges a complaint to the authorities about being overcharged for water by the landlord, which will deter the tenant concerned from reporting the case.

The Transport and Housing Bureau is currently drawing up a bill for the introduction of tenancy control on subdivided units, under which landlords of such units will be required to, inter alia, enter into a standard tenancy agreement with their tenants. According to the terms and conditions of the agreement, tenants should not be charged indiscriminately by landlords for miscellaneous fees other than those basic and reasonable costs like rents, rental deposits and the cost of utilities. Since landlords will not be permitted to collect miscellaneous fees, will it be possible to collect the same through a third party? For example, will it be permissible under the law for landlords to collect garbage dumping fees from tenants through a particular company?

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Deputy President, I am not trying to throw a wet blanket on Ms Alice MAK or the Transport and Housing Bureau by raising the above possibilities and queries, and it is my hope that the relevant legislative proposals can ultimately offer genuine help to grass-roots tenants and punish unscrupulous landlords. In this connection, some Members have expressed their hope earlier that the Government would conduct its law enforcement work carefully and precisely, so that its actions would not eventually make life difficult for law-abiding and responsible landlords, thus causing some of them to choose to withdraw from the market, leading to a drop in the supply of subdivided units, resulting in an increase instead of a decrease in rents and rendering it impossible for even more grass-roots families to find a shelter, while on the other hand, there is still nothing we can do with unscrupulous landlords of subdivided units who think of nothing but money and have no regard for law.

Deputy President, we all know that when it comes to addressing the problem of subdivided units in Hong Kong and genuinely helping grass-roots people to improve their living conditions and environment, legislating for the regulation of malpractices is after all a temporary solution rather than a permanent cure, while substantially increasing land and housing supply is the best and the most effective remedy. We must expedite construction and increase production of various types of housing units, be they public rental housing, subsidized sale housing flats, private housing or transitional housing.

Moreover, the last thing people wish to see is the huge waste of land by the Government. For instance, a funding application was submitted to the Legislative Council only recently for the project to develop the Hong Kong Girl Guides Association's Headquarters cum youth hostel, but the work proposal has in fact been procrastinated for more than 10 years before the commencement of the actual construction works. The Government has also spent nearly 20 years for the redevelopment project of the Police Married Quarters in the Western District. These are land sites of a high value in urban areas but under certain established procedures, various government departments have been shirking their responsibilities, and the land sites in question have thus been left idle for more than 10 years and construction has not yet commenced. We can only sigh with regret when precious land resources are wasted in this way.

Deputy President, as Hong Kong is moving from chaos to governance, our constitutional development has been brought back to order and the Legislative Council has resumed highly efficient and effective operations, the Executive Authorities should enhance their efficiency and governance performance also by abandoning the bureaucratic culture of engaging in discussions without making decisions, making decisions without implementation and taking actions that are LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5641 not effective, as well as ridding the civil service system of its inefficient and buck-passing image. In particular, specific measures should be adopted to further expedite and streamline the implementation of land and housing development plans as well as the relevant vetting and approval procedures.

Although I have doubts about the actual effects and the enforcement of the proposed amendments, putting some regulatory measures in place is after all better than no regulation at all, and the Bill will not be counterproductive either. Hence, I will support the passage of the Bill.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Cantonese): I rise to speak in support of Ms Alice MAK's private bill entitled "Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021" ("the Bill").

Deputy President, as Members all know, the serious shortage of housing supply in Hong Kong, coupled with the acute problem of exorbitant property prices and rents, has triggered deep-seated social conflicts and even constituted a major reason for social upheaval. In particular, subdivided unit tenants have to live in a dire situation day after day, and their appalling living environment is startling. What is even more startling is that their per-square-foot rents are even higher than those of luxurious houses. They have to pay the most exorbitant rents, but their living environment is nonetheless the most appalling. What is more infuriating is that while rents have remained exorbitant, some unscrupulous landlords with an insatiable appetite for more money in the form of water fees have even tried to exploit those disadvantaged tenants without any bargaining power by overcharging them for the use of water. This has remained an outrageous problem to us all along.

The Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK this time around precisely seeks to address the problem of overcharging for use of water, and her intention is to speak up for subdivided unit tenants and alleviate their pressure. The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions ("FTU") bases itself on grass-roots people, and it is concerned about the housing problem faced by them. Water fee is certainly a problem, but we hope that after the amendment of the Waterworks Regulations ("the Regulations") this time around, the authorities can proceed with the imposition of regulation. What is to be regulated? Back in 2017, I, together with Ms Alice MAK, already proposed to enact legislation to prohibit "overcharging for the use of electricity" in addition to "overcharging for the use 5642 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 of water". The Bill, one which seeks to prohibit "overcharging for the use of water", is expected to be passed without any hindrance, and it can resolve the problem of "overcharging for the use of water".

As for "overcharging for the use of electricity", as the Secretary for the Environment is not present now, I wish to relay my views to him through the Deputy President. Some years ago, I raised the need to amend the Electricity Ordinance and proposed to criminalize the act of selling to another person electricity obtained from the electricity supplier without the supplier's consent, or selling to another person electricity obtained from the electricity supplier at a price exceeding the amount fixed by such supplier, so as to forbid landlords of subdivided units to overcharge electricity fees. Nevertheless, the Government (including the Environment Bureau) argued with the pretext that my private bill would produce substantive effects in the long run and involved government expenditure, so it refused to render its support.

Perhaps, the Government thought that my private bill involved Article 73 of the Basic Law. In that case, why didn't the Government initiate any amendments itself? We often say that even if we propose a private bill in our capacity as Members, we do not necessarily have to take the credit in the end. We do not think there is any problem even if a bill that is passed in the end is not proposed in the name of the Member himself. So, why did the Government refuse to heed our views and initiate a relevant bill? In the end, my advocacy at the time unfortunately fell through, and even today, I still find this very regrettable. Luckily enough, though, the Government proceeds with half of our proposal by agreeing to the Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK that seeks to prohibit the overcharging for the use of water on the ground that it does not involve government expenditure. Therefore, the Bill obtained the Chief Executive's consent last year, and we have succeeded in overcoming the hurdles. But despite all this, it has taken us three years to complete this process. We have devoted a great deal of time in order to strive for this, and we hope to see the smooth deliberation of the Bill today, so as to resolve the problem of unscrupulous landlords overcharging water fees faced by subdivided unit tenants.

Fresh water supply in Hong Kong rests with the Water Supplies Department ("WSD"), and honestly, the water tariff it levies is very low. Strictly speaking, I even think that in the case of power supply, Hong Kong should tie in with the Mainland with the country or the Government offering a guarantee. That way, we will no longer see the case where power companies … Deputy President, I think our electricity tariffs are way too high at present.

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Let me come back to water tariffs. In this respect, the Government has done a good job because it has entrusted this duty to WSD. This is the reason why our water tariffs are very low. Domestic water tariffs are charged on a progressive basis consisting of four tiers, and they are to be settled at four-monthly intervals. Water consumption for the first 12 cubic metres is free of charge, and water tariff per cubic metre merely stands at $9.05. In the case of a four-person household with an average water consumption volume of 13.65 cu m, for example, its monthly expenditure will be $82 on average.

But in contrast, subdivided unit tenants are not that lucky because water charges for subdivided units are generally determined by the landlords themselves. This is one major problem. An overwhelming majority of subdivided unit tenants have to pay their water charges directly to their landlords rather than WSD. Landlords of subdivided units charging not only exorbitant rents but also extortionate water charges is something abnormal. Certain landlords set water charges based on the number of people in a household, and some do so based on "private water meters". But the water charges they impose are invariably very high. A survey has shown that they charge an average of $13 for every cubic metre of water consumption and $22 at the highest. This sum is way beyond the level of $9 levied by the Government on every cubic metre of water consumption at the highest tier. In the case of the subdivided unit household with four members I mentioned a moment ago, for example, it has to pay water charges ranging from $180 to $300 on average for its water consumption, over one time higher than the water tariff that would otherwise have been charged by the Government. Deputy President, the problem is very appalling.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MR MA FUNG-KWOK, took the Chair)

The above problem has arisen due to a stipulation in the existing Regulations, the stipulation that the landlord can charge for the cost of water supplied to the tenant by the internal water supply system of the premise, which may also include other related fees apart from water tariffs. This has given rise to a loophole enabling landlords to charge subdivided unit tenants an extortionate water fee on various pretexts, such as maintaining and repairing the internal water supply system. Even in the face of complaints, such landlords can put forth the 5644 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 need to repair water pipes or water metres in defence. This is the reason why WSD is unable to proceed with prosecution due to insufficient evidence. Over the past two years, WSD has received 19 complaints about charging tenants excessive water fees, but none of the complaints has led to successful prosecution. The existing legislation is plagued by a major loophole, one which has indirectly enabled landlords of subdivided units to impose water charges arbitrarily.

As I pointed out earlier, landlords' exploitation and extortion of subdivided unit tenants, coupled with their heavy manipulation of water charges, has added to their already heavy burden in daily living. The Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK has proposed a smart design, in the sense that it only introduces a fine amendment to regulation 47(2) to repeal the "cost of water" therein and substituting "charges for water referred to in regulation 46". Regulation 46 precisely refers to the official charges for water supplied by the Government. After the provision has been so amended, the landlord shall not charge the tenant a water fee that is higher than the official tariff. After the amended provision has come into force, it is expected that a subdivided unit household can pay $100 to $200 less a month.

Of course, this sum may be insignificant to senior officials, and they will not care even if they drop it. In the past, certain officials did have this mentality, and this was why they did not think that it was worthwhile to devote any effort to the matter. But to subdivided unit tenants, a dollar they save means an extra dollar they can spend. They may spend the additional $100 or $200 on buying food materials for a few days more or enrolling their children on extracurricular activities. They may even save up the money, so that they may purchase electrical appliances or household items a few months later. Besides, this amendment exercise can likewise enable them to feel that the Government is willing to uphold justice for them and strive for their rights in times of difficulties.

All this is absolutely of huge significance and even of huge symbolic significance. Its symbolic significance lies in the sounding of the trumpet that marks Hong Kong's transformation into a fairer society with greater justice and harmony in a new era of the legislature. Apart from sounding this trumpet, I even hope that this amendment exercise can sound the assembly trumpet. What does this mean? I hope that this amendment exercise can obtain support from a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5645 majority of Members―all Members, I hope―across various political parties and groupings. I also hope that when FTU or other political parties put forth motions or proposals on striving for social fairness or justice, the Government can take on board their ideas, and the legislature can render its support without any class distinction, so as to further alleviate our social problems.

While this amendment exercise may only be a small step taken by us for grass-roots people to prevent unscrupulous landlords from overcharging for the use of water on various pretexts, it is actually of huge symbolic significance to the transformation of our entire society. For this reason, I hope all Members can vote for the amendments in the Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK.

Thank you, Deputy President.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of the Member's Bill proposed by Ms Alice MAK that seeks to prevent overcharging for the use of water.

Of course, this Member's Bill is addressing the pressing needs of the people as it aims to prevent overcharging for the use of water. Where there is injustice, there will be an outcry. This is a piece of good news to tenants of subdivided units, and also reflects that the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions is very down-to-earth. However, while we feel glad about it, we also find it disappointing, and thus we really have mixed feelings indeed.

Where are the disappointing areas? Firstly, this Member's Bill has to go through many obstacles. It had to gain the approval of the President as well as the consent of the Chief Executive before it could be submitted to the Council, and a very long time has been taken. This is the first point.

Secondly, in fact, "overcharging for the use of water" is just the tip of the iceberg in the speculative culture of Hong Kong. In Hong Kong nowadays, what else cannot be speculated? There are speculations in shops, water, electricity, amusement tickets, sports venues, waiting chips and niches. Under the epidemic, there are even speculations in face masks and bleach. These speculative activities actually have a direct impact on people's livelihood. Besides, speculative activities will push up prices. As a result, some hardworking grass-roots workers and lower middle class employees are unable to 5646 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 raise their living standards. Gradually, Hong Kong does not care about productivity anymore, and Hong Kong becomes an international speculative centre, a centre of speculation even in people's livelihood.

Deputy President, coming back to this Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 ("the Bill"), overcharging for the use of water is commonly known as "speculation in water", a problem derived from some landlords charging their tenants at a water rate higher than the tariff set by the Water Supplies Department. We can understand that the tenants living in subdivided units are also a disadvantaged group of people and they are living a very hard life. Although there is legislation prohibiting overcharging of water fees by landlords for profiteering purpose, the effectiveness of government departments' enforcement is obvious to all. What is more ridiculous is that tenants have nowhere to lodge their complaints. Under the circumstances when protection is not provided by the law, the Government, remaining indifferent, passes the buck to tenants by asking them to clarify by themselves when entering into a tenancy agreement. It is very interesting that we often see the Announcement in the Public Interest on television telling us that there are always more solutions than problems, but when we ask the Government for assistance, there are always more problems than solutions.

How difficult are the lives of the tenants living in subdivided units? The Government cannot turn a blind eye to their situation anymore. At the same time, it also has to face the problem concerning the insufficient bargaining power of disadvantaged groups, and this is the actual situation. Of course, people will ask whether all problems can be resolved and the culture of extortion by tricks can be changed with the introduction of a law which prevents overcharging for the use of water. As a matter of fact, we all know that the rentals of subdivided units are comparable to those of luxurious housing, and the root of the problem deep down is the rental level of subdivided units.

Deputy President, as we are aware, not only is the living environment of subdivided units very cramped, but the water and electricity charges for these units are also being raised by landlords. There are also some hidden hazards in subdivided units, such as spreading of diseases, and electricity and fire safety problems. In the past, there were some accidents and tragedies of different scales, such as fire accidents and fights among tenants, and some personal injury and death cases did happen in such units. Nevertheless, despite such nasty circumstances, the number of subdivided units is still on the rise instead of going LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5647 down, due to the really exorbitant property prices in Hong Kong. Those people who are unable to afford the first home or the rent of a better unit have no other alternatives but to live in subdivided units. This is a distorted social phenomenon.

While Hong Kong is emphasizing the development of itself into a quality place for living and working, an overseas survey points out that Hong Kong has been the most unaffordable residential market for 11 years in a row. A citizen can only possess his own property if he does not eat or drink for 20 to 30 years. On the other hand, according to a report, Hong Kong has at least 510 000 decamillionaires and real estate accounts for over 70% of their assets. It is estimated that their wealth will continue to grow in the future. Therefore, the outstanding problem of subdivided units reflects not only the housing supply problem, but also the prevalence of speculative activities in society. It is a product which has widened and distorted the wealth gap.

Deputy President, we surely do not want Hong Kong to be hijacked by the mutual destruction camp and turn into a city of mutual destruction. However, when people's livelihood is also directly affected by speculative activities, will this be another issue of mutual destruction? Moreover, can this speculative culture keep going forever? Many grass roots live from hand to mouth and have no savings. If this phenomenon and culture in favour of capitals continue to generate social injustice, under the domineering force of capitalism, no matter how hardworking the public are, they still cannot share the fruits of economic success.

For many years, Hong Kong has been given by the western community the so-called title of "the world's freest economy", a very grand title. But in fact, it is only a piece of loincloth that covers up the shortcomings of the Government which only cares about itself and is oblivious to the plight of the poor. In these few years, the Government has been giving tacit consent to overcharging for the use of water by tenants of subdivided units, which shows that the Government has not given enough care to the grass roots. At the same time, it continues to uphold the economic principles of "small government, big market" and positive non-intervention. I now make a bold prediction here that even if this Bill is passed today, the target of turning Hong Kong into a decent place for people to live and work will still be too far away to attain if the Government continues to evade its responsibility.

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Deputy President, last year, the Mainland of China was able to attain the target of fighting against poverty as scheduled. With a precise way of poverty alleviation, it has realized the goals of "two assurances and three guarantees". What are meant by "two assurances and three guarantees"? They include assuring the rural poor population that they have enough to eat and to wear, and guaranteeing the rural poor population access to compulsory education, basic medical services and safe housing. While absolute poverty has been eliminated, the wealth gap between the rural and urban areas has also been narrowed. This problem which had been harassing China for a few thousand years has finally entered into a new stage in history. The 14th Five-Year Plan also mentions that the nation is currently facing the problem of imbalanced development. It thus states that one of the targets in the coming 15 years is to narrow the gap of development and the gap of people's living standards between the rural and urban districts, with a view to realizing the resolution of the nation to allow everyone in the country to become affluent.

As regards the Hong Kong Government, apart from emphasizing in some slogans the integration of the Hong Kong economy into the national development strategy, it has to follow the major direction of national development in terms of livelihood issues, strike a proper balance as a free market and adjust its policies in response to market changes. However, in respect of the complicated issues coming from the domineering forces of capitalism, does the SAR Government have the confidence to rise to the challenge and resolve the pressing problems of the public?

In sum, even if the Bill is passed today, it will also require the stringent law enforcement actions of the departments concerned. If the law is not enforced, issues similar to the environmental hygiene problem in North Point will emerge. In North Point, there have been piles of miscellaneous objects or junk in the streets. We have conveyed the issue to the department concerned, but while the department did not enforce the law effectively, it also blamed the law for its lack of strength. We said that we could help in amending the law, but the department did not actively or proactively make a proposal. As a result, the hygiene problem continues to deteriorate. At this critical moment of fighting the virus, it is disappointing to realize the lack of means in cleaning up some hygiene black spots or resolving the mosquito and rodent problems arising from the piles of junk in the streets.

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Deputy President, I hope that the SAR Government can take the painful lesson to its heart, because the second Member's Motion today is about seizing the opportunities to improve governance, on which I will speak again in due course.

I so submit. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I support this Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 ("the Bill"), and hope that with the passage of the Bill, tenants of subdivided units will no longer have to pay exorbitant water fees. I have to thank Ms Alice MAK for moving this Member's Bill for the benefit of the grass roots. Her pleading for justice on behalf of the people is absolutely worth our support. In fact, this legislation also carries substantial meaning. At present, given that there is neither filibuster in the Legislative Council nor "black-clad riot" in society, this Council can make contributions to society in a speedy manner. This legislation exercise is a good example, and I wish that there will be more such contributions to come.

This Bill prohibits the sale of water at a price exceeding the specified charges for water, and a person who is guilty of the offence shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine of $10,000. According to the current water tariff of the Water Supplies Department, the first tier of 12 cubic metres is free of charge, and the tariff is progressively raised with the increase in the amount of water consumed, ranging from about $4 to $9 per cubic metre. However, according to statistics, most of the tenants in subdivided units at present have to pay water fees at a rate of $15 per cubic metre and cannot enjoy the first tier of free water. Given the lower income of the grass roots, it is really very ridiculous that they even have to pay exorbitant water fees.

Even though the community has been aware of these malpractices, nothing could be done about them. During the past period of time, the Government was busy coping with the attacks from the opposition camp, and the focus of public opinions was also on political issues. As a result, the Government did not dare to do what it should have done, leading to numerous problems concerning people's livelihood. This Bill, although proposed by a Member, was met by the quick reaction from the Government, which is the major reason for the success of this legislation exercise. Pursuant to the Basic Law, the written consent of the Chief Executive shall be required before private bills relating to government policies are introduced by Members. In fact, when a Member proposes to 5650 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 introduce a private bill relating to government policies, the Government will usually have a lot of policy consideration. In the past, it was difficult for such bills to be approved by the Government. However, it is completely different this time, as the Chief Executive has quickly given a written consent to the Member's Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK.

As a matter of fact, it is rather rare for the Government to approve the introduction of a Member's Bill. This time, the Government's consent precisely shows its determination to improve governance. Currently, the Government is actually studying the introduction of a series of legislative work related to people's livelihood. It includes hiring overseas doctors, stepping up fire safety of old buildings and formulating tenancy control of subdivided units. Today, this Member's Bill is exactly complementing the policy of tenancy control of subdivided units. While our society is now getting back to normal, I wish that the Government can, without delay, do more for people's livelihood and resolve the various kinds of social contradictions, with a view to demonstrating the Government's benevolent governance and striving for public support.

Finally, I hope that the departments concerned will take law enforcement actions seriously. I am aware of the worry among some organizations that if the departments concerned are not determined in taking the initiative to enforce the law, the law will only become a toothless tiger. Even though tenants of subdivided units know very well that they are overcharged for the use of water, they may dare not report to the authorities for fear of being evicted by the landlords. Hence, the Government must urge the departments concerned to do well in their law enforcement work. They should also launch extensive publicity so that landlords of subdivided units will not dare to challenge the law, and tenants of subdivided units will also be aware of their own rights and interests. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, today, I speak in support of the Member's Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK that seeks to amend the Waterworks Regulations (Cap. 102A) ("the Regulations") in order to help combat the overcharging of water fees by landlords of subdivided units.

We are all cognizant of the scarcity of land in Hong Kong and the persistent short supply of public housing. Many grass roots, in order to get a shelter, have no other alternatives but to pay exorbitant rents for living in subdivided units with very limited space and poor sanitary conditions. The Task LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5651

Force for the Study on Tenancy Control of Subdivided Units has commissioned an organization to conduct a survey. According to the result, it is estimated that there are currently over 100 000 subdivided units with 226 000 people living in them.

It is not only the obligation of the community, but also the consensus of various sectors to alleviate the hardship of grass-roots families. In recent years, the Government has adopted a multi-pronged approach in rolling out certain measures. For example, in terms of assistance through subsidies, the authorities have disbursed the One-off Living Subsidy for Low-income Households Not Living in Public Housing and Not Receiving CSSA (commonly known as the Subsidy for N have-nots) through the Community Care Fund to relieve the financial pressure on low-income households; and have launched the "Assistance Programme to Improve the Living Environment of Low-income Subdivided Unit Households" through which a one-off subsidy in kind will be provided to low-income households living in subdivided units for carrying out minor improvement and repair works or for pest control services. Besides, the authorities have also facilitated a number of transitional housing projects proposed and operated by non-governmental organizations. Frankly speaking, the above are good measures which can give practical support to grass-roots families and respond to the needs of the grass roots.

However, the housing problem of the grass roots cannot be resolved in one move. The Administration should from time to time reflect on itself whether it has done enough or done appropriately. In fact, concerning the problems of subdivided units, apart from exorbitant rents and poor environment, not a few unscrupulous landlords even overcharge the tenants for the use of water and electricity, commonly known as "speculation in water and electricity", for profiteering. To tenants of subdivided units, this can be regarded as secondary exploitation.

Deputy President, this Member's Bill introduced by Ms Alice MAK mainly targets the problem of overcharging of water fees. Hence in the following, I will talk about the water fees paid by tenants of subdivided units. Under the current water tariff structure of the Water Supplies Department ("WSD") for domestic supplies, there are four tiers. The first tier of 12 cubic metres is free of charge, and the tariff is progressively raised with the increase in the amount of water consumed, ranging approximately from $4.2 to $9.1 per cubic metre. Nevertheless, according to the report of the Task Force for the Study on Tenancy 5652 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Control of Subdivided Units, the median water fee charge rate of subdivided units is $13 per cubic metre. This reflects that overcharging of water fees is not an isolated incident but a norm in the market of subdivided units and also a common practice of landlords for profiteering.

As regards this kind of unfair treatment, many tenants of subdivided units, who are in lack of bargaining power and are afraid of being evicted by their landlords, choose to save trouble by swallowing their anger. They need to pay an extra amount of water fees from $100-odd to a few hundred dollars, thus adding further to their financial burden.

In fact, overcharging of water fees is not something novel in the recent period of time. This has been a concern of some Members of the Legislative Council for quite some time. For instance, in a number of committees, some Members have urged the Government to face this problem squarely. A Member has also moved a motion which suggests enacting legislation to require the installation of a separate water meter for each subdivided unit. But the Bureau responded that this might not be technically feasible as the water supply systems in different buildings differed in design, and just called upon tenants to report to WSD. However, the number of successful prosecution cases concerning overcharging of water fees is actually very limited. The Bureau has also acknowledged that there are difficulties in instituting prosecutions, because most of the complainants were unable to provide valid evidence like tenancy agreements or payment receipts. Moreover, the wording of "cost of water" in the existing regulation 47(2) has created a loophole for landlords to determine arbitrarily the amount of water fees, or it can also be interpreted by landlords as the water fees covering the cost of repairing or maintaining the pipes, and thus the fees charged from the tenants are higher than the tariff specified by WSD.

In order to plug the loophole, the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 under scrutiny mainly seeks to amend the related wording in the Regulations which is suggested to be substituted by "charges for water", with a view to prohibiting a consumer from profiteering from the sale of supply of water provided by the Water Authority from the waterworks, and a person who is guilty of the offence shall be liable on conviction to a fine of $10,000. I believe that after the amendment, a stronger legal basis can be provided to deter landlords from overcharging water fees, and this will be an important step for eradicating the problem of speculation in water.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5653

Deputy President, some people may have the question that even if this amendment is passed, some landlords who intend to take advantage of the tenants can also charge more other miscellaneous fees and even further raise the rents, or some tenants who are clearly aware of being overcharged for the use of water will still not dare to report to the authorities for fear of being evicted by their landlords. However, as expressed by Chief Executive earlier, there is already a plan to submit a bill on tenancy control of subdivided units to this Council within this legislative year. Besides, the report of the Task Force concerned has also put forward a number of recommendations, including the formulation of a standard tenancy agreement, specifying that the amounts of water and electricity fees charged by a landlord from a tenant must not exceed those in the relevant bills, the introduction of priority in renewing the tenancy after expiry and the regulation of the rate of rent increase on tenancy renewal. I believe that this amendment to the Regulations and the future tenancy control of subdivided units can surely complement each other in providing better protection to tenants of subdivided units.

Nevertheless, Deputy President, I have to emphasize that the various supporting measures mentioned above and even this amendment to the Regulations can only temporarily relieve the financial pressure of the grass roots and respond to their short-term housing problem. In the long run, the Government must seek breakthroughs in terms of land and housing policies, as well as identify and create land with a multi-pronged approach, including taking forward the Lantau Tomorrow Vision in full speed, with a view to resolving the problem of housing shortage so that the grass roots can really have a cosy home. As I also mentioned before, this initiative will depend on the political courage and determination of the Government. Deputy President, I so submit.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): If not, I now first call upon the Secretary for Development to speak, and afterwards Ms Alice MAK will reply. Then, the debate will come to a close

5654 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I thank Ms Alice MAK for introducing the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021. I believe it shows Ms MAK is very concerned about various livelihood issues. The Government echoes that the amendment proposed by Ms MAK can reduce the chance for unscrupulous owners of subdivided units to overcharge their tenants for the use of water. We also believe that the amendment can assist the Water Supplies Department ("WSD") in more effective law enforcement. Thus, the Government welcomes the amendment.

Overcharging for the use of water has always been a matter of great concern to WSD. Upon receipt of a complaint or report, WSD will expeditiously take follow-up actions and conduct investigations. Moreover, WSD will take proactive actions to inspect suspected subdivided units for any overcharging of tenants for the use of water. If anyone is found in violation of the regulations concerned, the Water Authority will bring prosecution against the person where there is sufficient evidence. We believe that the amendment of the regulations can increase deterrence against overcharging for the use of water by unscrupulous landlords.

Just now, quite many Members expressed concern over publicity and law enforcement. Deputy President, in order to enable landlords and tenants to understand the provisions and relevant penalties after the amendment, WSD will conduct a series of publicity and promotional activities. These include, among others, arranging meetings with concern groups on subdivided units and property agency organizations; producing promotional leaflets and posters for dispatch to residents; and posting related information on the WSD website, so as to step up publicity to landlords on matters they should pay attention to when they charge their tenants water fees and encourage them to apply for separate water meters. WSD has also set up a separate option in its hotline to facilitate report of overcharging for the use of water by the public. So, I hope Members would have peace of mind. We will actively and seriously take enforcement actions.

Some Members raised concern over matters relating to broader tenancy control of subdivided units. In this connection, the relevant task force for the study on this matter already submitted its report to the Government at the end of March 2021. The Transport and Housing Bureau, which led the work on this subject, said it would carefully and actively consider the recommendations put forward by the task force, and introduce the relevant bill into the Legislative LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5655

Council as soon as possible. Regarding the views put forth by Members today, I believe our colleagues will appropriately take them into consideration.

Some Members expressed concern over whether subdivided units would be formally included as part of the housing supply, thus reducing the supply of other housing. Here, I can clearly say that Members need not worry. If we refer to the Long Term Housing Strategy of the Transport and Housing Bureau, which covers a period of 10 years, subdivided units are classified as inadequate housing and they will not be regarded as part of the housing supply. Quite the contrary, expeditiously relocating the residents living in inadequate housing to a better living environment is an important element in our calculation of the future housing supply.

Last but not least, quite many Members said that increasing the land and housing supply is the proper and right way to meet our target. I cannot agree more. I already said this morning, and here, I will tirelessly say again that we will submit the New Territories North study to the Legislative Council for discussion next week. I hope Members will support it. New Territories North … together with the study on the Artificial Islands in the Central Waters which I am grateful for Members' support last December … these two areas are our main source of land for future housing supply. We will make every effort and try our best to complete the work as soon as possible. I hope Members will give us support.

Deputy President, the Government welcomes the amendment and here again I express our thanks to Ms Alice MAK. I so submit.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon Ms Alice MAK to reply.

MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first, I must thank the Members who have just spoken; and I also thank the Secretary for speaking. Actually, I have prepared a script to explain the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 ("the Bill"). However, having listened to the Members who just spoke, I notice Members already grasp the content of this amendment bill and that their greatest concern is publicity and law enforcement. And just now, the Secretary also mentioned that the Water Supplies Department ("WSD") had undertaken to set up a hotline for tenants to lodge complaints and 5656 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 report any irregularities. Since there is a time limit on my reply, I would like to use my speaking time to respond to Members who have just spoken.

First, I need to thank the Chief Executive, the Secretary for Development and the WSD colleagues. Thanks to the assistance rendered by different public officers and the written consent given by the Chief Executive under Article 74 of the Basic Law, my private bill is able to reach this far and I am able to introduce the Bill. Just now, Dr Priscilla LEUNG said she wished to congratulate me. In fact, I agree that I need to thank all those who do care to make it possible for me to introduce this private bill. First, in fact ever since 2017 … Mr LUK Chung-hung also mentioned this just now … the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions has been following up the housing problems of the grass roots. Hence, as early as in 2017 we already saw the need to regulate the overcharging of tenants of subdivided units by the owners for the use of water and electricity. We thus began to propose this private bill in 2017.

But indeed, Mr LUK Chung-hung is not as lucky as I am. I am lucky because I have had communicated, on many occasions, with those working in the department responsible for this matter, that is, WSD. I believe Members know well the immediate response of civil servants when they learn about a Member intending to introduce a private bill. They would say, "You had better stop it." Right? Or, they would rather have the bill introduced by them … given that WSD also said at that time they would review the law. Actually, WSD also recognized that tenants of subdivided units were particularly vulnerable to oppression by unscrupulous owners. Hence, the department also admitted that this problem needed to be dealt with. Although they were not particularly enthusiastic about accepting my proposal, they did not reject it. I mean, they did not immediately stop my proposal, like what they did to Mr LUK Chung-hung. I still had a chance to lobby them and raise this subject in the Panel meetings for discussion.

But regrettably, as Members may know, this Council was plagued by political issues in the past few years. There was no usable Council meeting time for us to discuss these livelihood issues. Hence, many people recently said that I had proposed the Bill at the right time. But in fact, I did not introduce the Bill just now. I proposed it many years ago, just that Members used to focus their attention on political issues that no one cared about these livelihood issues and thus these issues were not allocated any time in this Council for discussion. Hence, first and foremost, I need to thank officers at WSD. They echoed my concern that we needed to tackle the problem of subdivided unit tenants being oppressed. I also need to thank the Secretary for Development. He is willing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5657 to accept and support my amendment bill, and his colleagues are willing to draw up measures to support the Bill.

Let me tell Members something that they may not know. The Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 that I proposed has actually been changed several times. The year of the Bill was first changed from 2017 to 2018. By the end of December 2020, at a meeting of the Panel on Development when I wrote to the Chief Executive about the amendment bill, the year of the Bill was 2020. However, by the time the Chief Executive replied, it was already January 2021. The Government thus said the year of the Bill needed to be changed to 2021.

So, I had to start the procedure all over again and wrote to the Department of Justice ("DoJ") for approval. But I am truly grateful to the officers at DoJ. When they knew that I only changed the year of the Bill from 2020 to 2021 without changing the content of the Bill, they issued the approval within a very short time. With the approval from DoJ (that is, the reply from DoJ), I immediately wrote to the Chief Executive. Likewise, the Office of the Chief Executive ("CEO") also replied within a few days and issued the written consent. We were thus in time to introduce the Bill for First Reading in March and then the Third Reading today.

I thus wish to say that from what Members said just now, I know that, irrespectively of our social strata or the political party we belong to, we understand the housing difficulties faced by the grass roots in Hong Kong. What I wish to say is, there are people who do care in society. Let us look at the civil service. Because of my amendment bill, all of us, such as the officers at WSD, DoJ, CEO, the Secretary for Development and also our Council staff, work hard for the grass roots. We all think that this is something we need to do, so we do it. Just that there has been so much political contention in society that we, or the people who care, did not have the opportunity to truly do something for society. Mr LUK Chung-hung used a rather pretentious phrase just now. He said we had blown the assembly trumpet. I think this is indeed a good opportunity to truly marshal colleagues of this Council, of the civil service and of the SAR Government to do something for people in need and to resolve livelihood issues together.

As some colleagues pointed out just now, my amendment is actually very minor and may not be able to offer much help to the tenants of subdivided units. But we have made a step forward. It is hoped that with this step made, people who care can jointly make another big step forward, so as to build a just society 5658 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 and resolve the many deep-rooted problems and long-standing conflicts in Hong Kong. I hold that this is the most important point of the amendment bill.

Moreover, many colleagues pointed out that after this legislative amendment, the owners may charge tenants other fees instead of water fees. I agree with them. As long as there is greed, and as long as there is an ill-intent, there will be dishonest means to rip off people or make money. I thus wish to take this opportunity to say something to those who have already made a fortune, whether they are property owners or whosoever. They should care for people in need. We have now dealt with the amendment on the water charge. If owners of subdivided units are determined to make up for their loss, they may overcharge their tenants for electricity, because we have not yet dealt with the electricity charge. Right? People of ill-intent will find the means to do so.

I thus wish to ask them to be conscientious. Look at how poor the grass-roots households are. They should not think that they are only charging these households hundred-odd dollars more. Do they know what the hundred-odd dollars mean to the tenants of subdivided units? Do they know that many grass-roots people are reluctant to spend four dollars on an orange? Grass-roots children may have learnt at schools about having a balanced diet, about a food pyramid and about eating more vegetables, but their parents may not even have money to buy vegetables.

I once visited a family. The household earned $10,000-odd a month. They spent $5,000-odd on the rents for their subdivided unit. I am talking about a family of four. They had two school-aged children. Apart from paying the $5,000-odd rents, they needed to spend a few hundred dollars on the water and electricity charges. If the owner had a heart, he should have exempted them from paying few hundred dollars which would be enough for the family to buy an orange for their children every day. So, I truly hope that we, or people who do care, can gather together to do something for society. Given that Hong Kong has now returned from chaos to peace, I hope that Members, irrespective of political parties or social strata, and all public officers can make use of this small step forward to take a big stride forward together and turn Hong Kong into a more just society and enable people to truly live and work happily in this city. We can do that. We do care. Let us work together.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I wish to express my gratitude to all those who have helped me introduce this amendment bill. I thank them all. Thank you.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5659

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 be read the Second time. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the motion passed.

CLERK (in Cantonese): Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021.

Council became committee of the whole Council.

Consideration by Committee of the Whole Council

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): This Council now becomes committee of the whole Council to consider the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021.

WATERWORKS (WATERWORKS REGULATIONS) (AMENDMENT) BILL 2021

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the following clauses stand part of the Bill.

5660 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

CLERK (in Cantonese): Clauses 1 to 3.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): If not, I now call upon Ms Alice MAK to speak.

MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I am grateful to all Members for their support. Actually, this Member's Bill, as pointed out by Members who have just spoken, mainly seeks to amend one point, and that is, to substitute "cost of water" with "charges for water". In other words, no one is allowed to charge a third person for the use of water at a price higher than that set by the Water Authority. I thus hope that the amendment will have the support of Members. Deputy Chairman, forgive me for my unfamiliarity and mistakes with the procedure since there are very few opportunities in this Council to consider a private bill. I hope Members will forgive me and support the amendment I proposed.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the clauses read out by the Clerk stand part of the Bill. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the motion passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5661

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): All the proceedings on the Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 have been concluded in committee of the whole Council. Council now resumes.

Council then resumed.

MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I now report to the Council: That the

Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 has been passed by committee of the whole Council without amendment. I move the motion that "This Council adopts the report".

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Ms Alice MAK be passed.

In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, this motion shall be voted on without amendment or debate.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the motion passed.

5662 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Third Reading of Member's Bill

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Member's Bill: Third Reading.

WATERWORKS (WATERWORKS REGULATIONS) (AMENDMENT) BILL 2021

MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move that the

Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 be read the Third time and do pass.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the

Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021 be read the Third time and do pass.

Does any Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5663 functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the motion passed.

CLERK (in Cantonese): Waterworks (Waterworks Regulations) (Amendment) Bill 2021.

MEMBERS' MOTIONS

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Debate on motion with no legislative effect.

Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok will move a motion on "Developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub".

Mr Tony TSE will move an amendment to the motion.

This Council will proceed to a joint debate on the motion and the amendment.

Later, I will first call upon Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok to speak and move the motion. Then I will call upon Mr Tony TSE to speak, but he may not move the amendment at this stage.

I remind Members that the debate on each of the Members' motions with no legislative effect (including voting) may last for a maximum of four hours. The movers of motions, apart from having a total of 10 minutes for an introductory speech and reply, may speak for up to 5 minutes on the proposed amendments; and the movers of amendments and other Members may each speak once up to a maximum of 5 minutes.

The joint debate now begins. Members who wish to speak please press the "Request to speak" button.

I now call upon Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok to speak and move the motion.

5664 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

MOTION ON "DEVELOPING HONG KONG INTO A REGIONAL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES HUB"

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move that the motion, as printed on the Agenda, be passed. The motion seeks to urge the SAR Government to act appropriately having regard to the circumstances and formulate complementary policies and measures to develop Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub.

Deputy President, when I say "to act appropriately having regard to the circumstances", I am referring to the prevailing circumstances. Only by correctly grasping the prevailing circumstances can we formulate sound policies and measures. And the most prevailing circumstance now is the need to seize the opportunities brought by the domestic and international "dual circulation" strategy put forward by the country, in particular to complement the joint development of the Belt and Road Initiative and the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"), as well as the acute demand for professional services to be generated therein. The country announced in March 2021 the Outline of the 14th Five-Year Plan for National Economic and Social Development of the People's Republic of China and the Long-Range Objectives Through the Year 2035 ("the 14th Five-Year Plan"), in which Section 3 of Chapter 10 is about deepening the reform and the opening up of the services sectors. The main content, among others, includes further lowering the market access requirements and comprehensively wiping out unreasonable restrictions; perfecting the policies and systems that support the development of services sectors; innovatively adapting to new service modes and policies related to land, finance and taxation, financial services and price, which are necessary in the integrated development of industries; upgrading systems on service standards; establishing an efficient and coordinated regulatory system on services industries; and encouraging practitioners to receive vocational training and certification. I hold that these specific details of the country's 14th Five-Year Plan are indicative of the way forward for our professional services, and enable us to envisage the enormous development opportunities, as well as various specific challenges, that lie ahead for us.

Deputy President, Hong Kong has always been a point of convergence for "five flows", namely the flow of people, goods, capital, information and services. And also, our professional services, such as engineering services, construction, environmental protection, finance, legal services, testing and certification, industry and trade, innovation and technology, are of international standards and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5665 have international experience and network. The unique advantage of Hong Kong is the implementation of "one country, two systems", which provides the convenience of closeness for us to participate in the development of our country. Hong Kong is capable of creating different cooperation platforms, such as platforms for financing and fund raising, high-end professional services, emerging industries, trade facilitation, and the platform for high-end professional services is certainly included. These are the inherent advantages for us to develop Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub. In short, we should leverage on Hong Kong's advantages to meet the country's needs.

Undoubtedly, if we are to turn these inherent advantages, which will help to develop Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub, into actual development opportunities, we need the innovative ideas from and concerted efforts of different sectors of society to formulate appropriate policies and measures. I believe the points below are relatively more important.

First, we should actively implement the Agreement Concerning Amendment to the CEPA Agreement on Trade in Services ("Amendment Agreement") and promote its early and pilot implementation in the Greater Bay Area, and facilitate the lowering of the requirements on Mainland market access. The development of the Greater Bay Area is an important support to the speedy formation of the country's new development setting of a domestic and international "dual circulation". The SAR Government should work with related local governments and industries in the Greater Bay Area to actively take forward the Amendment Agreement measures launched in June 2020 for early and pilot implementation in the Greater Bay Area; include more Hong Kong professional sectors and enterprises into the scope of mutual recognition; relax the restrictions on Hong Kong enterprises and professionals in participating in Mainland construction projects; gradually liberalize market access; expand the scope for early and pilot implementation from Guangdong to other areas; deepen cooperation on infrastructural facilities, industry investment, innovation and technology, environmental protection, testing and certification, arbitration services, etc., and strive for allowing Hong Kong enterprises to have the same policy and financial support as those given to Mainland enterprises.

Moreover, we should improve the policies and measures that support the development of services sectors, and facilitate the mutual access, integration and innovative development of the Greater Bay Area, so as to create an agglomerative effect. The SAR Government should work in partnership with related local governments in the Greater Bay Area to strive to smooth out systemic obstacles 5666 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 and regional restrictions encountered in the development of professional services; enhance coordination in industry interfacing, information exchange, resources allocation, etc.; and facilitate the development of the professional services sectors of the three places under the spirits of professionalism, rule of law and internationalization in an integrated manner, with a view to duly achieving resources sharing and complementary cooperation.

Deputy President, the authorities should also strive to expand the scope of mutual recognition for our professional sectors, so as to jointly promote our professional services brands. They should promote cooperation between the professional services sectors of Hong Kong and the Greater Bay Area; strive for expanding the scope of mutual recognition of professional qualifications and enterprise qualities between Hong Kong and the Mainland, including setting a uniformed standard for construction works in the Greater Bay Area, and seeking approval from the Ministry of Commerce for Hong Kong consultants in supervision work and construction enterprises to provide services from project planning to completion in the Mainland. Moreover, the two places can jointly facilitate international recognition of standard systems in China such as the Green Building Label, and the joint bidding by Hong Kong and Mainland enterprises for national projects or large-scale multinational projects under the Belt and Road Initiative.

Deputy President, apart from policies, we need talents to develop a professional services hub. The SAR Government should thus promote the establishment of an efficient and interactive system of professional services talents for Greater Bay Area so as to enrich the young talent banks there. The SAR Government can promote the ideas of "Greater Bay Area talent cards", "professionals pass", etc., and remove the obstacles in taxation, boundary clearance, practice restrictions, etc., to encourage professional personnel to practice across the boundary and facilitate the movement of professionals in Guangdong, Hong Kong and Macao. Also, the SAR Government should strive to expand the application of "one examination three accreditation", meaning that one can obtain the professional accreditation of the nation, of Hong Kong and Macao as well as the international accreditation by passing one examination, so as to promote the related training and assessment. In this connection, once again I urge the SAR Government to establish a young professional development fund to subsidize young people to enrol in professional courses and attain professional qualifications, including the licence for practising in Greater Bay Area cities on the Mainland, so as to expand the career prospects of young professional personnel.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5667

In summary of the above, Hong Kong does possess the inherent advantages in developing into a regional professional services hub. However, in order to transform opportunities into actual cooperation fruits, different sectors of society, including the Government, industries, businesses and professional sectors, have to make extra effort and keep abreast of the times. They must formulate related policies and measures with new thinking and vision, so as to boost the flows of people, goods, capital, information and services in the region and provide more development opportunities for different professional personnel and large, medium and small enterprises in Hong Kong, as well as providing the new generation with greater opportunities for upward mobility.

Deputy President, the Macao SAR Government announced yesterday the establishment of the Working Committee for Integrating into National Development. The Committee will coordinate the overall strategy in short, medium and long-term regarding Macao's participation in and contribution to the country's Belt and Road Initiative and the Greater Bay Area. The Committee is chaired by the Chief Executive of the Macao SAR. Other members will include related principal officials. I think the Committee is of great reference value to the Hong Kong SAR Government.

Deputy President, I will later express further views on Mr Tony TSE's amendment. With these remarks, I call on Members to support my motion.

Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok moved the following motion: (Translation)

"That this Council urges the Government to act appropriately having regard to the circumstances, by meeting the keen demand for professional services arising from the Belt and Road Initiative as well as the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area and capitalizing on Hong Kong's unique advantage of 'one country, two systems' and its international experience and network, to formulate complementary policies and measures to develop Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub, so as to seek more development opportunities for a wide range of professional personnel as well as large, medium and small enterprises in Hong Kong."

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok be passed.

5668 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first I wish to thank Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for proposing today's motion which allows this Council to discuss the relevant policies and measures to develop Hong Kong into a professional services hub. As he pointed out in the original motion, the Belt and Road Initiative and the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area have brought enormous development opportunities for Hong Kong's professional services, including the architectural, surveying, town planning and landscape sectors represented by me.

Long before I was elected as a Legislative Council Member, I have successfully striven for the first mutual recognition of professional qualifications of surveying and valuation professionals in Hong Kong and Mainland in my capacity as the President of the Hong Kong Institute of Surveyors. Nevertheless, acquiring the professional qualifications on the Mainland alone does not mean that one can practise and undertake projects in different municipalities and provinces. "Big doors are open, but small doors are not yet open".

For that reason, I and Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok jointly sent a letter in 2018 to the Ministry of Housing and Urban-Rural Development of the People's Republic of China in our capacities as members of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, with a view to striving for the direct participation of Hong Kong construction and engineering enterprises in Mainland's construction projects. In recent years, through CEPA and its Supplements, the Outline Development Plan for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, and the introduction of various measures benefiting Hong Kong and pilot projects in Qianhai, Hengqin, Nansha, and the entire Greater Bay Area, the Mainland has gradually relaxed the restrictions to the operation of Hong Kong's construction and engineering enterprises and the practice of professionals on the Mainland.

The Interim Guidelines for the Management of Hong Kong Engineering Construction Consultant Enterprises and Professionals Starting Business and Practising in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area Cities ("the Interim Guidelines") implemented on 1 January this year has blazed the trail for the mutual recognition of professional qualifications of enterprises providing professional services in the two places. Hong Kong enterprises which are on the two lists of construction and engineering consultants of the Development Bureau may directly provide professional services in nine Mainland cities of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area") by going through the simple procedure of registration for records. In this LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5669 connection, I wish to extend my gratitude to the governments on both sides (including the Development Bureau) once again, and I urge our Hong Kong professional sectors to actively register for records.

However, as to some small companies, companies with shorter periods of establishment, or companies which rarely bid for Hong Kong Government's works or consultant projects, such as estate surveying companies which specialize in providing property valuation services, are not on the two lists and it is quite difficult for them to be put on the lists, therefore they cannot benefit from the relevant measures.

The first proposal in my amendment is to improve the mechanism for mutual recognition of professional qualifications and enterprise qualities between Hong Kong and the Mainland by including more Hong Kong professional sectors and enterprises currently not recognized by the Mainland in the scope of mutual recognition. I hope the Government will take active follow-up actions.

The second proposal in my amendment is to strive for opening up more construction projects on the Mainland for participation by Hong Kong enterprises and professional personnel. In the year before last, I and the Authority of Qianhai Shenzhen-Hong Kong Modern Service Industry Cooperation Zone jointly sponsored the "Building for Park, Design for Qianhai" competition which was a huge success. The winner of the competition was awarded the right to directly participate in the design of the Guiwan Park at Qinahai, a landmark project. In future, I will keep on striving for the opening up of more Mainland projects for the sectors in Hong Kong to participate. I also wish to urge the SAR Government to do the same.

Finally, it is the promotional and publicity work. The SAR Government and different Mainland authorities, provinces and cities have introduced many measures to facilitate Hong Kong residents and enterprises to work or develop their businesses on the Mainland, but many members of the public and those in the industry may not understand the application details. For that reason, the Government should be more active in its promotional and publicity work and provide a one-stop information and service platform so as to offer guidance and help to the public in their applications just like what our Members' offices are doing.

Deputy President, due to time constraint, I am unable to go into details of my amendment and other suggestions. I beg Members to support the original motion and my amendment. Deputy President, thank you.

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SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I wish to thank Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for proposing the motion debate on "Developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub" today, and I also wish to thank Mr Tony TSE for proposing the amendment. The two Members are representing their professional sectors respectively, and they have expressed views on behalf of their sectors in the past. As both Members have mentioned that they have been striving for a breakthrough in market access to the Mainland for local professionals under the Mainland/Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement ("CEPA"). For that reason, I believe that today's debate will facilitate a more precise exploration into how to create more business opportunities for the professional sectors.

Deputy President, Hong Kong is a service economy. Over the past two or three decades, our service economy has not only kept expanding and making success, but also become more and more professional, pluralistic and internationalized. Our service industries, especially the professional services, are the major pillar of Hong Kong's economy. I wish to present several viewpoints at the beginning of the motion debate about how the Government sees the edges of professional services in our economy.

To make it simple, I consider Hong Kong's professional sectors have the following four edges. The first is of course the professional levels, which are not only high, but also highly specialized and widely recognized in the world. This is obvious and widely recognized in the world. Second, Hong Kong's professional services are based on an internationalized service platform. It is because many professions have local professional talents, they can also attract international talents who meet the professional levels of Hong Kong to work here. For that reason, it is an international service platform. Third, we have seen an increasingly significant trend, that is, people in the professional services are not working alone in their own professional fields, they are able to engage in partnership with different trading, investment, financial and economic sectors, thus I believe this is a major contributory factor for the continued expansion of their businesses. The last point was also mentioned by the two Members. Mainland's Central-owned enterprises, State-owned enterprises and privately-owned enterprises are gradually entering the global economic and trading arena in the light of economic open-up and market expansion by the Mainland, Hong Kong's professional services can play the bridging or partnership role in their market expansion efforts.

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(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

As to the Government, various Policy Bureaux have all along been endeavouring to provide support for the professional services, including the support measures and policy support to the legal, arbitration and mediation service sector by the Department of Justice; the Development Bureau―the Secretary for Development is present today in the Chamber―has all along been supporting and cooperating with the construction, engineering, surveying and other relevant professions; the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau―the Under Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury is also present today―has been providing support to the accounting, insurance and finance-related professions; the Food and Health Bureau is responsible for providing support to the medical and health profession; and since its establishment, the Innovation and Technology Bureau has all along been working closely with technological testing and certification profession. Therefore, I am very happy today that two of my colleagues are present to join our discussion.

Besides the direct support given by individual Policy Bureaux to the professional services that I have pointed out just now, the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau ("CEDB") and the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau have been working together with the professional sectors on fostering the Belt and Road Initiative as well as the work relating to the Greater Bay Area development respectively. Over the past few years, as far as the implementation of the major policy on the Belt and Road Initiative is concerned, we can see that no matter it involved the Belt and Road Summit, business matching services, marketing and visits, each event has provided the opportunity for the professional services sectors and us to "go global", and all these events have been vigorously supported by all sectors. The dedicated fund under CEDB has all along been providing financial backup for the promotional work of the professional sectors.

Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's motion suggests that the Government should meet the keen demand for professional services arising from the Belt and Road Initiative as well as the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, and thereby developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub. The Government totally agrees with his views. Everyone can see that the National People's Congress ("NPC") passed the 14th Five-Year Plan in March this 5672 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 year, which states clearly that NPC supports Hong Kong to promote service industries for high-end and high value-added development, including enhancing Hong Kong's status as an international financial centre and developing it into a regional intellectual property trading centre and so on. All of these have shown that as far as the national level and the positioning of Hong Kong are concerned, certain professions deserve our promotion. This is the opportunity bestowed on Hong Kong by the country, and this is also the recognition by the country in terms of policy formulation of policy and initial results achieved by the SAR Government and the relevant sectors, in particular the professional sectors, after we have made joint efforts to strive for such opportunity. As a matter of fact, benefiting from the continued opening up policy by the country, in particular the Belt and Road Initiative and the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area―the twin engines of the country's economic growth, the country and Hong Kong actually have a lot of opportunities for external development. Hong Kong's professional services are exactly a major component of the twin engines. Therefore we consider that they will have great prospects.

Please allow me to cite the examples about how the professional sectors have all along been the important partners of CEDB under the current-term Government in promoting the Belt and Road Initiative over the past few years at the beginning of this motion debate. No matter the promotion of Belt and Road Initiative on the national level or the international level, when we suggested that Hong Kong should do what it was good at to serve the needs of the country, the professional sectors took part in the relevant activities. Let me cite several examples for Members' discussion later on.

First, I remember in 2017 and 2018, when CEDB became the Policy Bureau mainly responsible for promoting the Belt and Road Initiative, we met with over 16 professional organizations, including the sectors represented respectively by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr Tony TSE, that is, the sector related to the engineering and infrastructure construction professions, to discuss the chance of cooperation in the infrastructure investment and development under the Belt and Road Initiative. Another sector was relevant to business professionals. Very often, we need legal, accounting and insurance services in the areas of commerce, investment and trade. This is the starting point for the current-term Government to promote the Belt and Road Initiative, and we have been doing the planning work together with professional groups.

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Second, in certain thematic activities, including a delegation of more than 200 members led by us to participate in Beijing's Belt and Road Summit in early 2018, we had been cooperating with some professional groups. One of the topics of the Summit was about professional services, and all important professional groups had taken part in the discussion in order to help to promote them on the national level.

Third, since we have started the work in this respect, we have been keeping on cooperating with Mainland authorities almost every year, in particular the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council and different ministries and commissions. We have had the opportunity to contact state enterprises and they attached great importance to the cooperation with Hong Kong's professional groups.

Fourth, I have mentioned just now that through the funding under the Professional Services Advancement Support Scheme, we have been cooperating with all professional sectors. Very often, we will take the initiative to invite these professional bodies to apply for funds with a view to creating more opportunities for the sectors.

Fifth, over the past period of time, except as a result of the situation in Hong Kong at the end of the year before last and the pandemic last year, we were unable to conduct overseas' investment promotion, we have visited over eight countries over the past two or three years; and in each investment promotion exercise, we were joined by the relevant professional services bodies.

Sixth, in events held by the InvestHK under CEDB and all overseas Hong Kong Economic and Trade Offices, Hong Kong's professional services sectors have been the major partners of these promotional events about Hong Kong.

My last point is, as the two Members have pointed out just now, when we are exploring new markets, in particular exploring market access to the Mainland, we have seen that Members or the sectors have been striving for the expansion of the service sectors under CEPA, which have been given expanded market access in recent years through the conclusion of bilateral agreements between Hong Kong professionals and their Mainland counterparts, thereby allowing certain Hong Kong professionals who have the edges to enter the Mainland by taking part in some early and pilot schemes.

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Certainly, the Government has all along been promoting the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area. Just now Ir Dr LO mentioned the coordination among government departments. In particular the development of the Greater Bay Area, everyone knows that the Chief Executive is doing the coordination work personally and leading the relevant task, and she has taken part in the meetings of the Leading Group for Development of Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area headed by the Vice Premier of the State Council, Mr HAN Zheng. She is directly involved in the work of the Leading Group. Over the past year or two, 24 policies have been drawn up by the Leading Group, some of which are conducive to the development of the legal, construction and insurance professional services in the cities in the Greater Bay Area. They also include the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, regulation of practice and measures to further open up markets that the two Members have mentioned just now.

President, as the scope of today's motion debate is rather broad, my colleagues in the relevant Policy Bureaux and I will listen carefully to Members' views and I will give a detailed reply after Members have delivered their speeches. Thank you, President.

MR LAU KWOK-FAN (in Cantonese): President, I speak in support of Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's motion on "Developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub", as well as the amendment proposed by Mr Tony TSE.

In 2019, the Central Government launched eight measures to promote the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"). These policy measures have not just made it easier for Hong Kong residents to pursue personal development in the Greater Bay Area cities, but also enhance convenience in such areas as passenger travel and logistics across the Greater Bay Area. In fact, I consider that the key to becoming a professional services hub is "mutual access and mutual recognition". I wish to advise the Secretary for Development that today I am very glad to see him in attendance listening to Members' speeches on this subject. I am particularly pleased because, apart from being Secretary for Development, he was also Director of Marine before. With this subject as a jumping-off point, I would like to raise some issues on mutual access and mutual recognition, which may not be entirely professional in nature but is very important to Hong Kong in terms of our development throughout the Greater Bay Area. I also find it quite a novelty to raise these issues in this Council.

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As Members may have noticed, members of the engineering sector, or many members of the public for that matter, have recently turned their attention to the bridge works of the Cross Bay Link at Tseung Kwan O. The bridge, whose sections will be joined together at sea, is the first in China to be built using the "float-over method". In fact, the construction of this bridge requires plenty of support, including the use of many special vessels travelling to Hong Kong from the Mainland. Therefore, one of the different kinds of access that I would like to talk about today is the mutual access in the context of marine works. These vessels include large barges, feeders and so on. Honestly, if Hong Kong has to build them on its own, I do not think any industry would take up the job, because after a vessel is built, it is not cost effective to solely rely on the Hong Kong market for its operation. Nevertheless, the entire Greater Bay Area, or even the whole of the Mainland, is a huge market to explore if we wish to, because I can say that the Mainland is already one of the biggest markets in the world in terms of marine works.

However, I would like to point out that these vessels need to come to Hong Kong from the Mainland to assist in the works, but due to their special designs, applications for entry are required and the approval may take several months or even longer. Frankly speaking, if the application for a vessel to come to Hong Kong for a project takes several months, how long will be the delay? It will be expensive in both time and cost. I dare say that there will only be more marine projects in Hong Kong in the future, and hence more need for these types of vessels. Why? It is because Hong Kong will have the Lantau Tomorrow project, where I believe these large vessels will have a wider scope of use.

So, as one of the kinds of mutual access and mutual recognition mentioned just now, is it possible to have a list of vessels whose licences are mutually accessible and mutually recognized by the Mainland and Hong Kong in relation to marine works? Not only vessel licences but also helmsman licences can be mutually accessed and mutually recognized. Since each Member has only five minutes to speak in the debate on a Member's motion, I just want to cite a late-breaking example of marine works, which is also indicative of an increasing future importance. For Hong Kong to develop into a regional professional services hub, there are a number of areas requiring attention. No matter what the area is, the key is "mutual access and mutual recognition" as I mentioned in my opening speech. Therefore, I hope that all bureaux and departments communicate closely with their Mainland counterparts to achieve mutual access and mutual recognition in each and every profession, so as to develop ourselves into a services hub. Thank you, President.

5676 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I thank Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for moving this original motion. In my view, the development of Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub is a very important subject. My thanks also go to Mr Tony TSE for proposing the amendment. I speak in support of the original motion and amendment of these two Members.

President, we know that the biggest forthcoming opportunity for Hong Kong is the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area") and the Belt and Road Initiative. If we are to fit in with the domestic and international dual circulation, the most important aspect of these developments is to achieve interconnection, mutual access and mutual recognition across these regions. Because of the time constraint, I would like to highlight today, also hoping the Government will pay attention to, my view that if Hong Kong is to develop into a regional professional services hub, digital infrastructure with a legal basis is part and parcel of what is required to achieve interconnection, mutual access and mutual recognition in the Greater Bay Area and the Belt and Road for our professional services as I have just mentioned. This is the most important thing we need to achieve.

As far as digital infrastructure is concerned, I can cite a few examples. Some are already underway, while others still require further efforts. To begin with, regarding electronic signature, actually Hong Kong and the Mainland have already established a certain foundation, in the sense that we have earlier developed the Arrangement for Mutual Recognition of Electronic Signature Certificates Issued by Hong Kong and Guangdong, so some industries, such as the securities industry, have now begun to use electronic signature. But to be honest, is it comprehensible and applicable to all industries? No, that is not exactly the case.

The second item of electronic digital infrastructure is electronic identity ("eID"). Unfortunately, Hong Kong's existing eID cannot be used across the boundary, because we have not yet achieved mutual recognition of eID with the Mainland. In my opinion, more needs to be done in this regard. Another item is electronic business registration ("eBR"). Currently we can confirm our personal identities online, but to date it is actually not yet possible to confirm the identity of an enterprise or a company this way. I know that the Government has now started to implement the eBR certificate, which is also a very important item of digital infrastructure. In addition, there is the e-contract. Once having in place the infrastructure items that I have just mentioned, we should base on blockchain technology to push forward the signing of e-contracts.

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In taking baby steps forward with these digital infrastructures on all fronts, Hong Kong should not go it alone, but discuss with the Mainland for interconnection, mutual access and mutual recognition. As we have often pointed out, what comes next in these developments is to meet the needs of the country with the strengths of Hong Kong. Apart from the interconnection, mutual access and mutual recognition among the Greater Bay Area cities, what matters the most is how to capitalize on our relationship with the international community to further promote interconnection, mutual access and mutual recognition along the Belt and Road. In my view, at present we cannot yet be described as having done quite a good job in terms of coordination on all fronts, because as noted in a review of the problems we are facing now, such as the impossibility to open up the boundary crossings during this period of time, the problems with the Mainland alone have already involved the business of numerous companies and rendered many contracts unable to be signed. I wonder if the Secretary knows how contracts are signed between Hong Kong and the Mainland at present. Since there is no way to travel to the Mainland, some people use postal mail to send contracts for signing, while some others use Zoom, namely by turning on Zoom together to hold a meeting where the counterparts' identities are confirmed, in the most primitive manner, and then the contract is signed together to be considered done and dusted. Arguably, if we do not have the digital infrastructure with a legal basis to achieve interconnection, mutual access and mutual recognition, then many cross-boundary matters will actually be impossible to be brought to fruition. In fact, blessed with certain strengths, Hong Kong has already stepped forward in this regard. Therefore, implementation is a must, but who should be tasked to discuss with the Mainland for interconnection, mutual access and mutual recognition? It seems to me that there is currently a lack of coordination among various government departments, but if we wish to do a good job in this regard, high-level coordination and promotion is required. Besides, more promotional efforts are needed in Hong Kong to reach out to various sectors, particularly the professional services, and educate members of the public and various industries. In this regard, I expect the Government to do better going forward.

In addition, actually there are also many international standards in the international arena. For example, we should now introduce the internationally standardized Legal Entity Identifier (LEI), which will also enable mutual authentication between businesses (The buzzer sounded) … These are also important for the digital infrastructure.

President, I so submit.

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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Elizabeth QUAT, please stop speaking.

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I speak in support of Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's motion. Just now, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr Tony TSE have spoken comprehensively on such topics as qualification accreditation and joint development of various industries, including engineering. I will not repeat them in my five-minute speech. Instead, I will mainly focus on the legal aspects.

President, under the principle of "one country, two systems", Hong Kong is the only city and special administrative region in China where the common law system is practised, coupled with the advantages of cultural connectivity and geographical proximity with the Mainland, as well as convergence of Chinese and Western cultures. In 2018, Hong Kong's legal services exports totalled US$386 million, up 4% year-on-year. Hong Kong is the ideal platform for the provision of international legal and dispute resolution services, including arbitration and mediation, to Mainland and foreign companies. With legal and dispute resolution professionals well experienced in handling international commercial law cases, we definitely have a developmental advantage in this area. In 2019, the Hong Kong International Arbitration Centre ("HKIAC") handled a total of 503 dispute resolution cases―I am also an HKIAC arbitrator―and the total amount in dispute reached HK$36.4 billion. Therefore, Hong Kong can definitely serve as a hub for international legal services in Asia.

There are over 10 000 practising solicitors and barristers in Hong Kong. As of the end of last year, we had 931 local and 92 foreign law firms. I would like to say here that when in Beijing around 1987 and 1988, I saw very few international law firms. There were only American law firms, who had taken advantage of the early opportunities. All major Sino-foreign joint venture projects were handled by foreign law firms. Few Hong Kong law firms were able to get a piece of the cake.

Nonetheless, today we have the Belt and Road Initiative and the Greater Bay Area. Particularly in the Greater Bay Area, we even have a commonality in language. Therefore, under such circumstances, it would be unacceptable for Hong Kong to still lag behind others. I remember that when the Mainland/Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement ("CEPA") was first signed, Singapore was keen on having a similar arrangement. All the while, Mainland experts and policy makers have been telling us that the Mainland has opened its LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5679 doors to Hong Kong professionals, particularly lawyers, but the latter have no idea how to seize the opportunities, and as a result always let them slip to others. So, exactly what difficulties are we facing in the professional context? The State has now given the full green light, as exemplified by Qianhai's warm welcome, back in 2019, for Hong Kong lawyers and law professors with a common law background to take part in cases involving common law. They are so open that the minimum capital injection ratio of 30% by Hong Kong partner firms in partnership associations set up between Hong Kong and Mainland law firms in Guangdong Province was removed in August 2019 and the measure has been extended to the whole of the Mainland since June last year. The State has really left the door wide open as far as hardware is concerned. It has even proposed to open up the eligibility for examinations, although there is delay due to the pandemic. However, having been in the legal profession for so long, I can see that there are still many barriers in our mindset and thinking. This is particularly true of young solicitors and barristers, who seem to me incapable of overcoming their inner demons, always feeling that the Mainland system is backward. However, while there is not enough business, they dare not take this step forward. Of course, they do not include many of their peers in the legal profession who became pioneers long ago.

Therefore, I would like to advise the legal profession in Hong Kong that if they really want to keep the goodies to themselves, I think they must look at the generation. For example, the development of drones, electronization as earlier mentioned by Members, and so on, we must catch up. Secondly, they must look at the world, which is where our strengths lie, namely in relation to common law and international law. Besides, they must look at our country, which of course means working closely with our "blood brothers", that is, fellow lawyers from the Mainland, Shenzhen, Guangdong Province and the Greater Bay Area, so that we can have a chance to enjoy the first fruits and develop our own profession.

President, I so submit.

MR CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I rise to speak in support of the motion and the amendment proposed by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr Tony TSE respectively. As everybody can see, the tremendous success of Hong Kong over the past few decades is attributable to not only the hard work of its people but also the reform and opening up of our Motherland. Hong Kong is a small, externally-oriented economy. But the soaring economic growth of the 5680 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Motherland behind us, coupled with the long-standing desire of Mainland and overseas enterprises to gain entry into the financial markets of overseas countries and the Mainland through Hong Kong as a springboard, has enabled the professional services industry in Hong Kong to attain rapid growth these few years. All along, Hong Kong has been a city with numerous blessings. We possess competitive edge presented by a good business environment, a sound judicial system, a simple taxation system with low tax rates, and highly effective financial supervision. As long as we can properly grasp our role as a bridge for economic and trade connection between the Mainland and the international community, we can definitely sustain our rapid development.

For these reasons, we cannot possibly rely on our sole efforts, and we must instead cling to the two major state policies on the development of the Belt and Road and also the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"). Apart from persisting in playing to our established strengths, we must also reform our old mindset and formulate new policies based on the needs of the times to dovetail with the country's rapid economic development brought by its 14th Five-Year Plan.

President, the financial industry of the four major pillar industries is of pivotal importance to Hong Kong as it is the backbone of our status as an international financial centre. While Hong Kong's economic activities have been seriously affected by the impact of the global epidemic―not to mention the unreasonable suppression by the United States―our financial market is able to avoid the impact and develop steadily. In addition to maintaining our competitive edge as I mentioned above, we should further relax or even remove the restrictions in our listing regime and lower the listing threshold, so as to induce more companies with weighted voting right structures and also Mainland companies listed in overseas countries to return to the Hong Kong market and in turn enable local financial services to maintain competitive development.

In my view, in order to develop Hong Kong into a regional centre for professional financial services, the expansion of mutual connectivity is of vital importance. Apart from the ongoing enhancement of our financial products, the Government should also formulate policies to keep pace with the times and expand the scope of mutual connectivity to also cover our professional talents as well as small and medium securities dealers, so that Hong Kong's financial talents with professional qualifications and financial institutions may seek development on the Mainland more smoothly as long as they meet the requirements and participate in the Mainland's overall setting for economic circulation.

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President, the Mainland's economy will be driven by domestic demand with domestic consumption as the mainstay instead of investment and export trade as in the past. This can further increase equity in income distribution, expand the size of the middle-income group in an orderly fashion, and narrow the disparity in income distribution. I believe that in the days ahead, Mainland residents' demand for professional services will increase day by day. The Hong Kong Government should assist local professional talents and enterprises in actively seizing any new opportunities, so that enterprises may take part in the overall development of the country.

President, due to time constraint, I can only focus my discussion on the financial service profession. But when it comes to our development as a regional professional services centre, some other professional industries in Hong Kong, such as the insurance industry, the healthcare industry, and also the legal profession, may likewise play a part, and our talents in these domains all possess an international vision. As long as the Government can proceed with the timely formulation of support policies and measures, such professional talents and organizations will definitely be able to play to their strengths in the Greater Bay Area and make contributions to Hong Kong and the country alike.

President, I so submit.

MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): President, first I wish to thank Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for proposing the Member's motion on "Developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub", so that the Legislative Council can stay focused today on the discussion of an important topic which was often neglected by the community at large in the past.

Talking about Hong Kong's professional services, I believe that we all know that we are richly endowed by nature. Hong Kong's service industries account for over 92% of our Gross Domestic Product, and that has also made Hong Kong one of the most service-oriented economies in the world. More than 227 000 people are engaging in various professional services industries, namely legal, accounting, construction engineering, information technology, advertising and so on. For that reason, we surely have a very solid foundation. Nevertheless, if we limit our vision within the boundary of Hong Kong, the room for development of these industries will be circumscribed. For that reason, we 5682 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 should broaden our vision and horizon, particularly make better use of the policies and preferential treatment given to us by the country, including the development strategy of the Greater Bay Area and the Belt and Road Initiative. Only by so doing, can our professional services industries fully play their role, which will enable our professionals and young people to have a bigger stage to showcase their talents.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

Deputy President, it is important for the SAR Government to formulate appropriate supporting policies and measures to help the industries and young people to seize the opportunity for development. I am especially concerned about the employment of young people. In last year, that is, 2020, the unemployment rate of young people aged from 20 to 29 was 9.9%, nearly 10%. The unemployment situation also shows a long period of negligence of the pluralistic development of our industries. Other than the four major pillar industries that we often talk about, actually young people do not have much choice. I remember when I was still studying, many students had to opt for finance-related subjects, as people often said the financial field offered the best prospects for young people, while some other might opt for other professional or medical disciplines. The Greater Bay Area is one of the good prospects for Hong Kong young people in job opportunities in near term.

In January this year, the SAR Government launched the Greater Bay Area Youth Employment Scheme ("the Scheme"). As at 7 April, 275 enterprises have provided 2 000 vacancies, with over half being innovation and technology-related positions. About 5 700 online applications were received. The response was overwhelming. Personally, I am quite concerned about this area and have raised several questions in the past about how the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau and the Labour Department could improve their supporting measures because these people are the vanguards who are willing to participate in the Scheme in the hope of finding a new way out in the Mainland. As a matter of fact, many young people do not resist working in the Mainland. I remember the first job I had when I returned to Hong Kong upon graduation, it was a job in the Greater Bay Area. I was neither familiar with the place nor the people and needed a lot of guidance at that time. Of course, it is really good for the SAR Government to be willing to launch schemes like this one, but I consider that we LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5683 should not only rely on one scheme. We may also provide the salary support. Actually, it is more important to find the way to improve the supporting measures and formulate better policies, so as to allow them to bring what they have learnt into full play and to have the real opportunity for development. We should view from the perspective of the young people. Actually they have to face some challenges. Since they have chosen this path. They may see a stable career development in Hong Kong, working in the Mainland is perhaps a new challenge. For that reason, I consider it is equally important for us to help these young people working in the Mainland to have better opportunities so that they can showcase their professional capabilities.

Moreover, the Hong Kong Government should improve its coordination with Guangdong and Macao. Actually we have also suggested that we should strive for the establishment of a one-stop employment and entrepreneurship information platform in the Greater Bay Area to provide more information about employment, relevant employment laws and regulations for young people. The platform should also consolidate the information of all industries as well as trade and industry authorities concerning taxation, industrial, commerce and legal information. The Government should also make more publicity of this platform once the Scheme is launched, with a view to encouraging more young people to go to the Greater Bay Area to test their true capabilities. And at the same time, it is hoped that such a platform can take care of the needs of young and prospective professionals, so that their relevant professional working experience in the Mainland will be recognized in Hong Kong.

Deputy President, I support Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's motion and Mr Tony TSE's amendment.

I so submit.

MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, the Belt and Road Initiative and the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area are both conducive to the promotion of international trade and infrastructure investment. It is thus natural to see stronger demand for maritime services and their associated high value-added professional services. The SAR Government must capitalize on this opportunity by introducing favourable policies, so as to promote the development of professional maritime services, and make the "pie" bigger. This will, in turn, attract more ship owners, shippers and merchandise traders to establish their presence in Hong Kong, thereby achieving clustering 5684 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 effects and consolidating Hong Kong's position as an international maritime centre.

With a long history of development, Hong Kong's maritime industry is a full-fledged cluster. Currently, there are around 900 shipping-related companies operating in Hong Kong, providing a wide range of professional maritime services, including ship management, ship agency, ship brokerage, maritime financing, maritime insurance, maritime law and arbitration, to the relevant sectors in Hong Kong, the Mainland and foreign places.

In order to promote the development of high value-added professional maritime services, the maritime industry has been urging the Government to introduce supporting measures over the years. In the last legislative session, the Government finally implemented tax concessions for ship leasing business and marine insurance business one by one. Also, the Task Force on Commercial Principals has been set up under the Hong Kong Maritime and Port Board to study tax concessionary measures which can attract more maritime enterprises such as ship management companies, ship brokers and ship agents, to establish their bases in Hong Kong.

Deputy President, while promoting the development of an industry with tax concessionary measures is nothing novel, it has taken my industry years to lobby for these measures before they are actually implemented, and they are thus lagging slightly behind. To get a share in the maritime industry which is full of development potential, our neighbours have used money power in addition to providing tax concessions. This March, Singapore announced that it would invest an amount equivalent to HK$110 billion for the development of maritime industry. One of its moves is the provision of additional subsidies to small and medium enterprises engaging in the business of maritime technology, with the aim of developing the country into the "Silicon Valley" for maritime technology. In view of this, the Liberal Party hopes that the Government will have more communication with the industry to get a head start on the development of maritime industry, and will introduce favourable policies in a prompt, resolute and pertinent manner.

Among the many professional maritime services, maritime arbitration is the one with significant growth potential. Under "one country, two systems", the legal system of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region is based on the common law and supplemented by statute law. As the New York Convention also applies to Hong Kong, the arbitral awards made in Hong Kong are LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5685 enforceable in more than 160 contracting states to the Convention. Hong Kong therefore lends itself to development as one of the major dispute resolution centres in the region.

The Belt and Road Initiative and the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area will bring unlimited business opportunities, and commercial disputes will inevitably come along. I hope the SAR Government can lobby the Central Government to allow Hong Kong to serve as the designated mediation and arbitration centre for settling investment and commercial disputes in connection with the Belt and Road development projects, thereby fitting in with the National 14th Five-Year Plan which has reiterated the support for the objective of developing Hong Kong into a leading centre for international legal and dispute resolution services in the Asia Pacific region.

As regards the issue of mutual recognition of professional qualifications, I know that the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport in Hong Kong is communicating with the relevant Mainland departments about this issue in respect of their industry. Despite so, I still wish to talk about drivers of cross-boundary heavy commercial vehicles in particular. At present, drivers of cross-boundary heavy vehicles are required to get the driving licences of Hong Kong and the Mainland respectively. Since the Outline Development Plan for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area emphasizes integration within the area, Hong Kong residents holding a valid private car driving licence can now drive private cars in the Mainland by applying for direct issue of a Mainland driving licence without taking the driving test. I hope that the Government will try to lobby for the Mainland's permission for Hong Kong residents who hold a valid Hong Kong heavy vehicle driving licence to likewise get a Mainland driving licence of the type of vehicle concerned without taking the driving test, if they are employed by a cross-boundary transport company. I believe this will help to alleviate the severe shortage of cross-boundary drivers currently faced by Hong Kong.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I support the original motion and the amendment.

MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Deputy President, since 2003 when Hong Kong and the Mainland signed the Mainland/Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement ("CEPA"), Hong Kong enterprises as well as individuals have seen increasing opportunities for them to tap into the Mainland 5686 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 market year by year. Also, in recent years, the Qianhai Free Trade Zone, the area privileged with the right to implement policies on an early and pilot basis, has continuously lowered the investment threshold, while the Central Government's development strategy for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area") has provided great momentum for the introduction of series of measures which give convenience to Hong Kong and Macao residents living and working in the Mainland. Accordingly, there has been much more room for Hong Kong people to go to the Greater Bay Area to seek development.

That said, as learnt from some members of the professional services industry, a number of professional services of Hong Kong has actually been developing rather slowly in the Mainland, despite some progress. This is due to various reasons, in addition to the issue of mutual recognition of qualifications which still requires improvement. According to individual members of the professional services industry and those who have been to Qianhai or the Greater Bay Area to tap into the local markets, the Greater Bay Area is a relatively sophisticated market where the costs required are higher than those of some places further in the north. They think that it may not be easy to do business there, and it is what concerns them. While the SAR Government has been helping the professional services industry of Hong Kong to develop the Mainland market over the years, I think there is still room for improvement in its proactivity. In the face of these views in the industry, I believe the Government can actually dispel the concerns if it makes more effort in publicity work or in explaining the situation.

To me, it is of vital importance that the SAR Government finds the way to leverage Hong Kong's connectivity with the Mainland and international market, and to seize the opportunities presented by the Greater Bay Area development and the Belt and Road Initiative, in response to the 14th Five-Year Plan which has proposed the new development pattern featuring domestic and international dual circulations that complements each other. One of the proposals is … Now, the HKSAR Government has set up the Professional Services Advancement Support Scheme which aims at providing assistance to different professionals in the professional services industry. If they wish to organize projects or events for the promotion of Hong Kong's professional services to the Mainland or overseas market, they can make an application to the Scheme to seek resources from it. I think that the Government should step up its efforts in promoting this Scheme. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5687

Perhaps, it may focus on expanding the service scope of this Scheme through the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area Development Office or the Belt and Road Office, so that the promotion of the relevant professional services and the supporting measures concerned can be taken forward more effectively.

Deputy President, let me take the legal sector as an example. The Mainland adopted a decision to allow Hong Kong legal practitioners with five years of experience or above to obtain practice qualification in the Greater Bay Area for engaging in matters on civil and commercial areas of the Mainland laws upon passing a special examination. Regarding this ground-breaking measure, we have actually seen an overwhelming response from the sector. As estimated, 700 people have signed up for the online seminar launched by the Mainland. For the examination originally scheduled for January―it has been postponed due to the pandemic―it has also seen enthusiastic response in terms of enrolment. In other words, the introduction of any ground-breaking measure will be positively received.

This new measure is a new arrangement that allows Hong Kong legal practitioners to be employed by the Mainland law firms in the nine Mainland municipalities in the Greater Bay Area, or to become a partner of a Mainland law firm. The prospect of being able to practise in the Mainland will be greatly beneficial to the future development of Hong Kong legal practitioners, as they will then have a larger market and be able to … Through this new measure, they can develop their careers in the Mainland, and advance their career plans further. Honestly, we think that the SAR Government should capitalize on this opportunity. As those who have passed the relevant examination will be qualified to practise in the Mainland in the future, the SAR Government should lobby the Mainland to arrange more practical training courses on Mainland laws to provide them with more practical knowledge on Mainland courts' handling of civil and commercial legal matters, thereby readying them to start their work in the Mainland more effectively upon getting the practice qualifications. This is definitely something necessary for the professional development of the legal sector, and I therefore take this opportunity to put forward this proposal. I am grateful to Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for moving this motion today, and I am in support of it.

Deputy President, I so submit.

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MR CHAN CHUN-YING (in Cantonese): Deputy President, the professional services industry is a pillar industry in Hong Kong enjoying competitive edge. I am thankful for and supportive of the motion and the amendment proposed by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr Tony TSE respectively. This has given this Council an opportunity of debate to urge the Government to take into account the needs of the times and capitalize on Hong Kong's unique advantages presented by "one country, two systems" and also by its international experience and networks, so as to formulate support policies and measures for dovetailing with the keen demand for professional services arising from the construction of Belt and Road and the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"), with a view to developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services centre and seeking more development opportunities for various types of professionals and also small, medium and large enterprises in Hong Kong.

The socio-economic development of Hong Kong these days is always closely connected to the development and needs of the Mainland. The evolution of the country's overall development setting has catalysed a new setting in Hong Kong's economy. The Mainland/Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement ("CEPA") is a free trade agreement signed between the Mainland and Hong Kong in 2003. Adopting a building block approach, CEPA has continued to expand in content and scope over the years.

Actually, the Agreement Concerning Amendment to the CEPA Agreement signed on 21 November 2019 has further lowered the market access thresholds and provided for more facilitating measures for Hong Kong enterprises and professional sectors to tap into the Mainland market. Eligible Hong Kong professionals such as architects, structural engineers, lawyers and doctors, might acquire the corresponding Mainland's professional qualifications through mutual recognition or examinations. Besides, if such architects or structural engineers are engaged or employed by relevant enterprises in the Mainland, they are allowed to register for practice in designated provinces and cities and establish architectural design, structural engineering or other related firms or operate those firms in the form of partnership or association with their Mainland partners. Law firms in the form of association with Mainland partners can provide one-stop cross-border legal services, and share operating costs and profits with their Mainland partners. Following the official implementation of the Amendment Agreement on 1 June last year, I hope the Government can gradually expand its coverage of professionals.

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The Chief Executive's 2020 Policy Address states: "We will further consolidate Hong Kong's position as the prime platform and a key link for the B&R Initiative, and strengthen the co-operation with B&R related countries and regions so as to open up a larger market for various sectors. The HKSAR Government is seeking to organise jointly a high-level roundtable with the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council to explore enhancements of modern corporate governance and to strengthen R&D application by leveraging the international experience and professional strengths of Hong Kong, thereby enhancing the competitiveness to 'go global' through mutual collaboration. We will also launch a Mainland Enterprises Partnership Exchange and Interface Programme in the coming year to facilitate exchanges and networking that foster co-operation between Hong Kong's professional services sector and Mainland enterprises, strengthen the capacity building of both sides, and enhance the international outlook, market orientation and professional standards of various projects."

Deputy President, at the grand gathering to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the establishment of the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone, State President XI Jinping mentioned in his speech the requirement of "taking active moves to further promote the construction of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area". He said to this effect: "The construction of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area is a major development strategy of the country, and Shenzhen is an important engine driving its construction. It is necessary to seize this major historical opportunity presented by the construction of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area and to promote the connection of rules and also interface between mechanisms for economic operation in the three places …" Earlier on, the National People's Congress passed a resolution to adopt the Outline of the 14th Five-Year Plan for National Economic and Social Development of the People's Republic of China and the Long-Range Objectives Through the Year 2035 ("the 14th Five-Year Plan"). The 14th Five-Year Plan proposes a new paradigm with domestic circulation as the mainstay and domestic and international circulations reinforcing each other.

Therefore, in order to develop Hong Kong into a regional professional services centre, the SAR Government must keep pace with the times and seek to promote and enrich the interaction and interface between the Mainland market and the international market and also the interface between the country's standards and international standards, while fully capitalizing on our advantages presented by "one country, two systems" and focusing on business opportunities 5690 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 in the Mainland market with the Greater Bay Area as the entry point, in a bid to actively turn Hong Kong into a participant in the domestic cycle and a facilitator of the international cycle.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I wish to begin by saying that I am grateful to Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for moving this motion entitled "Developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub", and also to Mr Tony TSE for proposing his amendment. This has given the Legislative Council a chance to discuss how Hong Kong can seize the opportunities to integrate into the overall development setting of the country and dovetail with the 14th Five-Year Plan, so that it can give play to its strengths presented by "one country, two systems" and its function as an international financial centre and professional services hub, and actively participate in the two major development strategies of the country―the construction of Belt and Road ("B&R") and the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area").

Actually, apart from the strong support of the Motherland, Hong Kong also possesses professional management talents with an international outlook. Speaking of such domains as merge and acquisition, reorganization, financial services, accounting and taxation, legal services and architectural services, Hong Kong has a wealth of talents, and the construction and development of B&R and the Greater Bay Area precisely needs a great deal of knowledge-based talents and the forming of a talent pool for the convergence of talents from Hong Kong, the Mainland and overseas countries as a preparation for the development of B&R and the Greater Bay Area.

At present, under the country's development setting with domestic circulation as the mainstay and domestic and international circulations reinforcing each other, Hong Kong as the prime functional platform for the B&R Initiative should enhance its edge in international networking, the provision of professional services and the application of innovative technology research outcomes in such areas as venture capital, financing, transportation and logistics, and industrial and commercial trade, so as to provide the country with full support for enhancing its competitive edge and embrace the opportunities.

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At the same time, the epidemic has given rise to a new setting in international commerce and trade and a new normal in society and people's livelihood. Unity of international communities (including B&R countries and regions) and their cooperation is an important element in containing the epidemic and reactivating economic development. For this reason, enterprises and the professional services sector in Hong Kong should all the more step up cooperation and, at the same time of coping with the various challenges resulting from the epidemic, promote economic development with a modern, professional, innovative vision under the new setting and new normal.

Deputy President, as I said before, the epidemic has given rise to a new setting in international commerce and trade, and a new normal has likewise come into being in society and people's livelihood. Apart from exploring more opportunities for various professional sectors and improving measures for the approval and mutual recognition of professional qualifications, the Government should also consider the idea of taking forward the development of various industries, such as cloud computing, big data, Internet of Things, Industrial Internet, blockchain technology and artificial intelligence, so as to support and promote the upgrading and restructuring of various professional sectors and different enterprises.

The global outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic has accelerated the onset of a turbulent adjustment period for the global economy. Nevertheless, China's total economic volume in 2020 exceeded the RMB100 trillion threshold, and its Gross Domestic Product ("GDP") for the year amounted to as much as RMB101.6 trillion, an increase of 2.3% over the previous year. It is the only major economy worldwide that has achieved positive economic growth. According to the country's Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, the scale of China's digital economy grew from RMB11 trillion at the beginning of the 13th Five-Year Plan to RMB35.8 trillion in 2019, and it accounted for over 36% of its GDP. This shows that the development of digital economy is a powerful engine driving economic development, and the enhancement of related industries, such as cloud computing, big data, Internet of Things, Industrial Internet, and block-chain technology as I mentioned just now, is definitely conducive to the upgrading and restructuring of various professional sectors and different enterprises.

Actually, State President XI Jinping has already attached a great deal of importance to big data and Internet development since many years ago. He has 5692 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 stressed many times the development of digital economy and given many important speeches on digital economy. The country's 14th Five-Year Plan has even dedicated an independent chapter to the development of digital economy, with an emphasis on drawing up planning for accelerating the development of digital economy, creating new strengths for digital economy, and promoting digital industrialization and industrial digitalization, so as to expedite the pace of developing a digital society.

Deputy President, if Hong Kong is to "go global", it must possess certain requisites for competition. The development of digital economy, coupled with Hong Kong's professional services, can enable Hong Kong to develop innovative financial services for Internet economy and the various economies. In fact, this has become a major trend worldwide and is even an area involving worldwide competition. Hong Kong must face up to it head-on.

Deputy President, with the country's full support, Hong Kong should seize the opportunities for development and integrate into the country's overall setting, so that it can play to its strengths and attain economic success together with the country.

With these remarks, I support the original motion and the amendment.

MR WONG TING-KWONG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, many thanks to Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for moving this motion today. Apart from professional services, my discussion will also express concern about the question of how enterprises can seek more development opportunities in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area").

Hong Kong must grasp the new opportunities arising from the Mainland's new development setting marked by the promotion of "dual circulation" involving the domestic and external markets and dominated by "domestic circulation". It must focus on the business opportunities in the Mainland market and seek to play an important role in the process. The authorities should help and motivate Hong Kong enterprises to expand the sale of their products with competitive advantage to the Mainland and develop importation and distribution business, so as to assist the Mainland in further expanding its domestic demand and grab a share of the Mainland market with huge potential.

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Actually, in view of the development of the Greater Bay Area, the SAR Government has implemented many policy initiatives to assist with industries' development in recent years. In the case of commerce and trade, it rolled out a one-stop support platform called "GoGBA" recently, together with the setting up of the Hong Kong Trade Development Council Greater Bay Area Centre in Shenzhen, as a means to assist Hong Kong enterprises in grasping business opportunities and promote Hong Kong's service and technology industries in the Greater Bay Area.

Nevertheless, as the prevailing epidemic in Hong Kong has yet to stabilize, I am concerned whether any resultant hindrance to such measures will affect their implementation progress. I hope the Government will exert its utmost for the thorough actualization and active implementation of such measures. Speaking particularly of those young people who wish to start up business on the Mainland, the Government should not only offer subsidies through its policies but also undertake more promotion campaigns for them with thorough and in-depth explanation, so that they may obtain a more specific and realistic understanding of the circumstances in the Greater Bay Area, including geographical environment, rituals and customs, dialects, and also the characteristics of various industries. It should explain the possible opportunities for young people in the process, and also its significance to Hong Kong's future development.

Another industry that will be involved in the cooperation with the Greater Bay Area is the tourism industry. The epidemic on the Mainland is much more stable as compared to the case of Hong Kong. According to the assessment of the Hong Kong Tourism Board ("HKTB"), it is expected that tourists will first visit short-haul markets at the initial restoration of cross-boundary tourism. For this reason, HKTB should first concentrate its resources on conducting promotion in the Greater Bay Area market to induce visitors from the region to spend a vacation in Hong Kong. Besides, the Government should also conduct active promotion and strike up cooperation with the Greater Bay Area to develop "multi-destination" tourism services in the region, while also designing more tourism product portfolios to attract visitors.

In this connection, the authorities should actively consider the idea of "travel bubbles" when it comes to gradual cooperation with other countries. HKTB is now undertaking a series of activities and programmes in overseas countries to promote the new arrangements for visiting Hong Kong, while also exploring the idea of introducing a "vaccine passport" to provide inbound visitors 5694 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 holding a vaccine passport with exemption from compulsory quarantine or testing restrictions, and offering convenient visa arrangements. At the same time, the Government should likewise strive for bilateral quarantine exemption for Mainland and Macao visitors under the Come2hk Scheme, so as to induce a greater number of tourists to visit Hong Kong and join local tours that are organized in cooperation with the Mainland and in turn rescue Hong Kong's tourism industry.

But Deputy President, we must stress that regardless of the intensity of the support for the initiatives rolled out by the Administration and the industry with the specific target of the Mainland market, their effectiveness may nonetheless be affected by fluctuations in the epidemic. Members can see for themselves the severity of the epidemic in India lately. In contrast, people in countries with smooth vaccination progress have been able to resume a normal life. Once again, I urge Hong Kong people to receive vaccination as early as possible and assist in bringing the epidemic under control for the well-being of themselves, others and the community, in the hope that international exchange activities can resume expeditiously, society can resume normal operation, and the economy can continue to develop.

Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the original motion and the amendment.

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I rise to speak in support of the original motion and the amendment proposed by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr Tony TSE respectively.

Under "one country, two systems", Hong Kong implements a free, open economic system with a transparent, effective common law tradition. Besides, Hong Kong's professional services industry adheres to international standards and enjoys competitive edge. With the support of the Motherland behind us and a global outlook, Hong Kong has become a gateway for foreign capital to gain entry into China and a platform for Mainland enterprises to "go global". As a result, professional services and other producer services in Hong Kong have developed prosperously and become one of the four major pillar industries employing totally around 570 000 people and contributing roughly 12% to our Gross Domestic Product ("GDP"). Furthermore, during the 10 years between 2009 and 2019, Hong Kong's professional services industry has recorded an LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5695 accumulated growth rate of 7%, which is higher than the local GDP growth rate of 5.6%.

Deputy President, looking ahead, I will say that Hong Kong's professional services industry must seek opportunities and joint development under the Belt and Road ("B&R") Initiative and the important state strategy for its next five-year plan.

Since the B&R Initiative was first put forward in 2013, 171 countries and international organizations have already signed with China 205 cooperation agreements involving projects of an extensive scope. The Hong Kong Government has also introduced a number of initiatives, including an additional financial commitment of $1.5 billion for the Dedicated Fund on Branding, Upgrading and Domestic Sales endorsed by the Finance Committee last month, alongside an expansion of the geographical scope of its subsidies to encompass certain B&R countries and regions. This year, Hong Kong has even obtained the country's support for joining the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership as a member in the first batch. Speaking of developing mutual connectivity partnerships with B&R countries, Hong Kong's diversified professional services industry of a high standard may assist the country in facilitating "hardware connectivity" for their infrastructure facilities and also "software connectivity" for their rules and standards. In the case of fostering green development partnerships, the Government may strive to turn Hong Kong into a green financial centre by drawing reference from the experience of issuing green bonds.

Deputy President, the Outline Development Plan for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area was rolled out in 2019, while the 14th Five-Year Plan is even aimed to motivate Hong Kong to integrate into the country's overall development setting and refine its "dual circulation" framework. The development of Hong Kong's professional services industry is destined to be promising. It may continue to assist Mainland enterprises in "going global", and it may even strike up cooperation with high-value industries in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"), deepen the interface with industries, and seize the business opportunities presented by the country's new round of expansion and opening up of pilot sites for the service industry. The country has implemented the highest level of opening up for Hong Kong, in the sense that it allows Hong Kong's service industry to invest in Internet data centres and set up medical institutions on the 5696 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Mainland in the form of wholly-owned entity. All this has presented us with both opportunities and challenges. Hong Kong's professional services industry must enhance its quality on an ongoing basis and move up the ladder step by step. The Government should promote the "Hong Kong brand" of the professional services industry and enhance cross-sector support for it.

Furthermore, the authorities should continue to deepen cooperation in trade in services under the Mainland/Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement (that is, CEPA), while further improving the mechanisms for mutual recognition of professional and corporate qualifications in both places as the next step, so as to bake a larger cake and achieve a win-win situation. In the case of young professional talents, the Government may follow the example of the Greater Bay Area Youth Employment Scheme and provide internship or short-term secondment opportunities in the Greater Bay Area as a means to enhance mutual understanding and their sense of recognition. And, the relevant work experience should likewise be recognized in Hong Kong.

Deputy President, Hong Kong is a highly open economy deeply integrated into the country's development and the world economy. The development of Hong Kong into a regional professional services centre will not only enable Hong Kong to get out of the economic gloominess resulting from the social incident and the COVID-19 epidemic in the short run; it even concerns Hong Kong's long-term integration into the country's "dual circulation" setting and also the issue of driving modern service industries to dovetail with the upgrading of traditional industries and facilitate the development of emerging industries. I support this original motion and the amendment.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): Deputy President, Hong Kong is an international financial centre, an international trade centre and a metropolitan city, we should always consider how to maintain its competitiveness. As a matter of fact, a number of factors unfavourable to Hong Kong have emerged in recent years, such as the Sino-US trade war, the "black-clad violence" and the outbreak of the epidemic, and all these can potentially affect the confidence of international investors in Hong Kong, thus undermining Hong Kong's status as a financial centre. In the face of all these challenges, Hong Kong must strive to enhance its competitiveness and maintain its international status.

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In order to maintain its international status, Hong Kong needs to do a lot of things, including better equipping the city by, for example, promoting the continued development of our professional services, which may attract investors from all over the world to invest in Hong Kong, and serve the development needs of the country at the same time. Hence, the motion moved by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok today on "Developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub" will definitely have my support.

With regard to the future way out for Hong Kong, apart from keeping on engaging in financial development, taking part in the Belt and Road Initiative as well as the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area are important opportunities for Hong Kong because all of these need a lot of professional services, especially the Belt and Road Initiative. As the country is not yet able to keep its professional services fully on a par with the international standards, or is still in lack of international experiences, Hong Kong can make contribution in this respect. It is therefore really necessary for Hong Kong to promote the continued development of its professional services.

In fact, although the insurance industry of Hong Kong is part of the financial services sector, it also provides many specialized insurance services, including reinsurance, property insurance, major project insurance. With ample international experiences, our insurance industry can also contribute to the Belt and Road Initiative in the future.

Developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub will make an important contribution to maintaining Hong Kong's status as an international metropolitan city and financial centre. Hong Kong has been subject to many unreasonable criticisms and even sanctions in the international community since the deterioration of the Sino-US relations and the "black-clad violence", thus leading to the worry that Hong Kong's international status will be shaken. As internationalization is the lifeline of Hong Kong, we must strive to consolidate Hong Kong's international status. This is actually the goal I would like to achieve when advocating all these years to develop headquarters economy in a bid to attract international investors to come and do business in Hong Kong. The idea to develop the territory into a regional professional services hub seeks also to achieve the same objective, because once an expanded market space is available for the development of our professional services, international 5698 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 professional organizations as well as professional personnel will be attracted to Hong Kong, and this will bring about an inflow of international capital, thereby providing comprehensive support to our financial centre.

Furthermore, professional services have always been one of our pillar industries in Hong Kong, with a large number of practitioners, and many university students are eager to join the relevant trades and businesses. However, as ours is a rather mature economy, in the face of fierce competition, promising development opportunities may not be available to many university graduates even though they have obtained professional qualifications. If we can develop Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub and expand the market space, a greater number of professional posts will be created to provide professional personnel with more development opportunities. This will also enable more young people to join the professional sectors and offer them an opportunity for upward mobility, which I think can help to reduce their grievances.

Mr Tony TSE has included a number of suggestions in his proposed amendment today, such as urging the Government to perfect the mechanism for mutual recognition of professional qualifications between Hong Kong and the Mainland by including more Hong Kong professional sectors not recognized by the Mainland in the scope of mutual recognition, and proposing to open up more construction projects on the Mainland for participation by Hong Kong professional personnel. Being an elite member of the professional sectors, Mr TSE certainly understands the need of professional personnel, and if his suggestions can be adopted, they will surely make significant contributions to our professional services, which will be of great help to the development of a regional professional services hub. I hope the Government will seriously consider these suggestions.

Thank you, Deputy President.

DR JUNIUS HO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I support very much the original motion moved by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and the amendment proposed by Mr Tony TSE, because both of which have outlined the most crucial element in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5699

Hong Kong's development. The economy of Hong Kong has all along relied heavily on service industries, which account for over 94% of our Gross Domestic Product ("GDP"). Some people may consider this undesirable as too much emphasis has been placed on service industries, but judging from the current world trend, the positioning and talents of Hong Kong as well as the area of land available for use in the territory, this is the right path to take.

The economy of Mainland of China is of course more diversified, and instead of relying solely on service industries, it has sought to feed its huge population of 1.4 billion with the development of the primary industries (i.e. the agricultural sector). There is also a need to depend on the secondary industries (i.e. the manufacturing sector), otherwise it would not have been possible for the country to stand up to the test in 2019. Hence, at the national level, the economy of the Mainland is much more diversified, but the country considers it necessary to upgrade its service industries. It is thus proven that the development of service industries is a necessary stage in the process of progressing towards a modernized and advanced country, but a biased approach should never be adopted, and a big-picture outlook is needed.

How about Hong Kong? We should "leverage Hong Kong's advantages to meet the country's needs", I think there are two things that Hong Kong should now make reference to. We seemed to have taken the reform and the opening up of the country lightly, considering that China has a vast territory with abundant resources, and investment decisions should not be made rashly. However, China has indeed fought its way out, and it has established its status in the world by becoming the world's second largest economy. The GDP per capita of China in the 1970s was only US$300 to US$400, but the amount has risen to nearly US$10,000 today, representing an astonishing rate of increase.

Hong Kong participated in the development of Qianhai in 2009, when a group of senior cadres led by Shenzhen deputies to the National People's Congress took a forward-looking attitude and indicated to us that Qianhai was actually developed to provide support to Hong Kong. Then, in just a blink of an eye, the place with an area of merely over 10 sq km has made contribution to GDP in just 10 years. To everyone's surprise, the Shanghai Free Trade Zone was set up and various places like Hengqin and Nansha have been developed one after another, and even more unexpectedly, Hainan Island which has an area of 5700 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 over 36 000 sq km has also been developed. Hong Kong is located at the centre of all these key development areas, and a promising future await Hong Kong if we play to our strengths in the provision of professional services and make further efforts to retune our machinery. However, where can we find land to do this?

As I have said to Secretary Edward YAU, Hong Kong is a very beautiful place and country parks can offer us unlimited development potential. Due to the epidemic, people are forced to stay in Hong Kong and have nowhere to go, and certain parts of the countryside have been frequented to an extent that not even a blade of grass can grow there. However, by making devoted efforts to improve the surrounding environment of country parks, these areas will become valuable assets of Hong Kong.

I have also suggested to Secretary Michael WONG that as the entire boundary area covers an area of over 20 sq km, we should see the place not so much as a frontier area, but a new gathering point for developing "innovation and technology in the north, financial services in the south". Traditionally speaking, land areas on both sides of the Victoria Harbour are mainly used for the development of financial and professional services, and as for the new development area in the north, it can be further divided into two parts. The part north of the Shenzhen River is called Lo Wu, while the part south of the Shenzhen River is named Ta Kwu Ling. By merging Lo Wu with Ta Kwu Ling, an area for extensive development can be established where no one can ignore its development potential.

I am very happy to learn that a paper will be submitted to the Panel on Development next week for discussion of the development of the New Territories North, and I find this particularly encouraging and worth supporting. If this area for extensive development is not regarded as a place outside Hong Kong, while people coming from Lo Wu are not considered inbound travellers, such a brand new concept of co-location arrangement will help to establish a free zone. Is this concept feasible? It will indeed be necessary for the Bureau to adopt a new mindset in this respect.

Deputy President, I so submit.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5701

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, you may now speak on the amendment.

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I would like to thank Mr Tony TSE once again for proposing his amendment to my original motion. In fact, with regard to efforts to promote the development of professional services in the construction and engineering sectors of Hong Kong, there is much consensus between Mr TSE and me, and we have also worked in collaboration in this respect from time to time. The most notable example is the case mentioned by Mr TSE just now, when he and I jointly wrote to the State Ministry of Housing and Urban-Rural Development at the end of April 2018, proposing that the restrictions on Hong Kong-funded construction and engineering enterprises participating in construction and development projects in the Mainland be further relaxed. The Ministry has positively replied to our views by agreeing to lift the restrictions gradually and implement the specific arrangements in accordance with the procedures prescribed under the framework of the Mainland/Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement (i.e. CEPA).

Deliberations were subsequently conducted between the concerned departments of the two places, and I also attended the discussion held in Hong Kong between our Trade and Industry Department and the State Ministry of Commerce. The Agreement Concerning Amendment to the Agreement on Trade in Services was signed later in November 2019 under the framework of CEPA to give Hong Kong enterprises and professional sectors more preferential treatment to tap into business opportunities in the Mainland market, and it came into effect on 1 June 2020. The Development Bureau subsequently drew up two lists of related companies in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, namely the list of architectural consultants and the list of engineering consultants, 5702 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 so that professionals registered with relevant registration boards in Hong Kong may directly provide services in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area") through a registration system.

Furthermore, approved contractors and professional civil engineering personnel of Hong Kong have been allowed to start business in Hengqin and Qianhai. In a further development, the Department of Housing and Urban-Rural Development of Guangdong Province promulgated new measures in December last year on the specific arrangements and details for construction engineering companies and personnel of Hong Kong to start businesses and practise in the Mainland cities of the Greater Bay Area. Trade practitioners of Hong Kong have attached great importance to and greatly welcome such measures, and they also look forward to the continual enhancement of various measures for early and pilot implementation, as well as their gradual extension to other Mainland places. I am sure this is a common direction and goal that both Mr TSE and I have striven to realize.

Deputy President, what Mr Tony TSE and I have conveyed are the common aspirations of the construction and engineering sectors all these years, and these include perfecting the mechanism for mutual recognition of professional qualifications and enterprise qualities between Hong Kong and the Mainland; striving for opening up more construction projects on the Mainland for participation by Hong Kong enterprises and professional personnel; providing Hong Kong young professional personnel with support for employment and entrepreneurship in the Greater Bay Area; enhancing expeditiously the competitiveness of enterprises and professional services industries in Hong Kong and the Mainland to "go global"; communicating and cooperating closely with the relevant Hong Kong professional bodies to avoid acting like making a cart behind closed doors. It is therefore my opinion that the amendment proposed by Mr TSE and the original motion are complementary to each other, and I hope fellow Members will support them all.

Deputy President, I so submit.

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SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Deputy President, Honourable Members, first of all, I would like to thank Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok for moving the original motion and Mr Tony TSE for proposing the amendment, and I am grateful to the 15 Members who have given their views on this important subject. Let me quote a simple but pertinent point made by one of the speakers, Mr Martin LIAO, that is, there will be both opportunities and challenges if Hong Kong is to be developed into a regional professional services hub, where opportunities must be grasped and challenges overcome. The views given by Members just now have covered both aspects and we will try our best to act in response to their views. The Government has been working in this direction over the past, and we will keep making rectifications and improvements as well upon listening to Members' views.

On the whole, we generally agree to the views expressed by the 15 Members who have spoken. The Government is of the view that only by making strenuous effort to enhance and promote Hong Kong's strengths in professional services can we grasp the opportunities at the national, local or international level as mentioned by Members. I will, in my concluding remarks, respond to issues pertaining to several areas referred to by Members, including major national policies (such as the Outline of the 14th Five-Year Plan for National Economic and Social Development of the People's Republic of China and the Long-Range Objectives Through the Year 2035 ("the 14th Five-Year Plan"), the Belt and Road ("B&R") Initiative, the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, Mainland/Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement ("CEPA")), economic support, law, innovation and technology, and youth encouragement as well. And two of my colleagues from the Development Bureau and the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau will also make additional comments in relation to their respective areas of responsibilities later on.

The most timely and important national policy is the 14th Five-Year Plan recently endorsed by the National People's Congress in which it is specifically stated in the first section ("Supporting Hong Kong and Macao to reinforce and enhance their competitive advantages") of Chapter 61 on maintaining the long-term prosperity and stability of Hong Kong and Macao that the State will support Hong Kong to enhance its status as an international financial, transportation and trade centre and an international aviation hub. These are inherent and emphasized in the previous five-year plan, but more contents have 5704 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 been added to the 14th Five-Year Plan: the State will also support Hong Kong to establish itself as an international innovation and technology hub, a centre for international legal and dispute resolution services in the Asia-Pacific region, a regional intellectual property trading centre, and to be developed into a hub for arts and cultural exchanges between China and the rest of the world. The contents cover both old and new initiatives, some of which will give play to our inherent strengths, while others may serve to induce our potential for new development. The State has given us a very clear direction, which is also in line with what we are striving for.

During the debate, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok brought up the issue of using the B&R Initiative as an essential platform for developing Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub, which is utterly consistent with Hong Kong's role as the prime functional platform and a key link for B&R Initiative under the State's overall policy. All along, the SAR Government has been working with the Central Government, Mainland enterprises and the international economic and trade community to promote a number of initiatives in line with the general direction of the State and where Hong Kong can play a role, including holding a series of sharing sessions of "Belt and Road: Hong Kong-IN" forums in 2018 and 2019 to discuss with industry players how to make contributions in introducing Hong Kong's professional services to the various projects under B&R Initiative through taking part in those projects. The aforesaid initiatives also include conducting promotional work for the joint webinars held respectively with Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia in 2020. Regardless of the pandemic, these efforts have never come to a halt.

In the meantime, the Government is building diversified platforms to facilitate the interface between the business, industrial and professional services sectors of Hong Kong and the enterprises both in the Mainland and around the world in order that Hong Kong's professional services sectors can play a role in participating in and contributing to the development of B&R Initiative. The Government and the Hong Kong Trade Development Council ("TDC") organize the Belt and Road Summit ("the Summit") every year and five of which have been held so far, where the numbers of both the participants and delegates from participating countries are on the rise every year. Last year, we were unable to hold a physical forum (the Summit) due to the pandemic, but a virtual one was still held, which was participated by more than 6 000 enterprises and professionals from 80 countries and places. More than 700 matching sessions LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5705 involving over 240 (one-to-one) projects were held during the event, offering plenty of business opportunities for professional sectors.

In addition, to enhance the matching of professional services with enterprises, the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau ("CEDB") supports TDC in setting up the B&R Portal, which lists out the corresponding Hong Kong professional services providers and relevant success stories to facilitate connectivity with the global market. At least once a year during the Summit or in the middle of the year, we are able to conduct business matching with the state-owned enterprises led by the Mainland Authorities under the Central Government, including the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council, the Ministry of Commerce ("MOC") or the National Development and Reform Commission ("NDRC") through the activities held with such Mainland Authorities. We will continue with our work in this regard. We have also responded to the request made by some Members just now, including Mr CHAN Chun-ying, for matching with the Central Authorities and Mainland enterprises.

Just now, a lot of Members have also touched on the issue of how to make use of our expertise to help and cooperate with Mainland enterprises. Our exchanges with the Central Authorities every year include also a joint conference led and set up by NDRC apart from those business meetings which I have just mentioned. On the side of the Central Government, last year's joint conference was led by NDRC and participated by 16 Mainland Authorities, while on Hong Kong's side, CEDB took the lead, with 15 to 16 units participating. In addition to government departments, there are also government-related organizations (such as TDC) working together on the joint conference. We can see from this that there is also a mechanism for liaison between our Government and the Central Authorities on top of the interactions among the sectors.

The development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("GBA") is led and coordinated by the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau. As also mentioned by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, GBA has brought to the professional sectors many development opportunities. Since the promulgation of the Outline Development Plan for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area in early 2019, the HKSAR Government has been coordinating closely with the Central Authorities and government bodies in GBA. The Chief 5706 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Executive has also participated in the meetings of the Leading Group for the Development of the Greater Bay Area ("the Leading Group") chaired by the Vice Premier of the State Council, Mr HAN Zheng, to convey the views of various sectors in Hong Kong, including the professional sectors. The Leading Group has endorsed a number of policies which would benefit Hong Kong people from all walks of life and facilitate the development of Hong Kong's professional sectors in GBA, among which are policy initiatives to support the professional sectors, including further liberalization initiatives in such aspects as mutual recognition of qualifications and regulation of practice as mentioned by various Members just now. The Government will keep strengthening ties with the Mainland Authorities to follow up on the taking forward of the overall policy on the development of GBA as well as the announcement and implementation of individual initiatives with a view to fully implementing the various policy initiatives drawn up by the Leading Group, and to enhance Hong Kong's role in promoting the development of GBA and seeking policy breakthroughs in different areas, including professional services.

With the support of Members, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has set up the Greater Bay Area Development Office ("GBADO") to enhance the coordination and collaboration of various bureaux and departments in the development of GBA and to ensure coordination and consistency of relevant policy initiatives. Meanwhile, GBADO will keep on maintaining close communication with local stakeholders, including different professional services sectors, and listening to relevant views. Through strategic publicity and promotional activities, GBADO will work to enhance the understanding of all quarters of society on the development of GBA while encouraging their active participation to explore opportunities for development.

Quite a number of Members have just mentioned the Agreement on Trade in Services under the framework of CEPA. According to Mr Martin LIAO, we should keep going into greater depth regarding this, and Mr Holden CHOW also hoped that we could step up promotional efforts so that more professional services sectors could have access to the Mainland market under CEPA.

Since the signing of CEPA, CEDB and the Trade and Industry Department ("TID") have conducted extensive consultations almost every year to seek views on how to further take forward the opening up of market access for various LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5707 sectors while taking on board different views gathered through relevant Policy Bureaux for discussion with the Ministry of Commerce upon consolidation of those views. Arguably, CEPA is the most frequently updated and interactive economic and trade agreement among the bilateral economic and trade agreements around the world. Here, I would like to thank all sectors and the various bureaux for helping us to gather views so that we can start working.

In recent years, pilot liberalization measures for GBA have been introduced specifically in such areas as legislation, construction and related works, finance and tourism in the revised Agreement on Trade in Services signed under the framework of CEPA implemented since 1 June 2020. As at end 2020, 3 320 certificates of Hong Kong service suppliers were issued by TID to help members of various sectors make use of CEPA to access the Mainland service market. All these are the substantive progress we have made.

Mr Holden CHOW has also mentioned just now that we have put in place the Professional Services Advancement Support Scheme ("PASS"). PASS is actually an initiative launched by CEDB to support local professional bodies and individual professionals in their outreaching and enhancement efforts through a funding scheme. The maximum amount of PASS grant for an approved project is 90% of the total eligible project cost for supporting activities relating to exchanges, publicity and enhancement of professionality. CEDB and the departments under its purview have been liaising with different sectors from time to time to encourage them to make use of the funds. In case of changes in personnel of a professional body, we will encourage the personnel of the new term to make use of PASS as far as possible when having conversation with them.

Nonetheless, this is not the only fund we have as told by Mr Martin LIAO, who has mentioned the Dedicated Fund on Branding, Upgrading and Domestic Sales ("the BUD Fund"). With a further injection of $1.5 billion approved by the Legislative Council, the BUD Fund, together with the SME Export Marketing Fund, are meant to help various sectors explore new markets and proceed with brand building or upgrading, and may be indirectly of help to local professional services sectors.

5708 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Besides, according to Dr Priscilla LEUNG, she hoped that more sectors, in particular the legal sector (which is her concern), could do more to promote the roles which they would play well. In addition to the several funds I have just mentioned, there are also TDC, Hong Kong Economic and Trade Offices overseas as well as Invest Hong Kong which are willing to work with the professional bodies towards this end.

In response, I would like to speak on some of the professional areas mentioned by Members. Regarding the legal profession, I have heard Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr Holden CHOW mention the legal sector, which the Department of Justice ("DoJ") is immediately responsible for.

(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

The 14th Five-Year Plan mentions specifically that Hong Kong is to establish itself as a centre for international legal and dispute resolution services in the Asia-Pacific region. DoJ is also liaising closely with the relevant Mainland Authorities right now, endeavouring to implement more liberalization measures and new initiatives on legal services in GBA in order to give full play to GBA's unique strength of "one country, two systems and three jurisdictions". Given that the representatives of DoJ have also briefed the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services of the Legislative Council on the relevant work in March, I will only summarize the views given together with the relevant progress reported to us by DoJ.

In respect of legal services, several ground-breaking measures have been introduced in recent months to benefit the development of the entire legal profession in Hong Kong, including the "GBA Legal Professional Examination" ("the Examination") mentioned by Dr LEUNG just now. Qualified legal practitioners in Hong Kong may apply for practice as lawyers in GBA upon passing the Examination and undergoing an intensive training course organized by the Guangdong Lawyers' Association.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5709

Moreover, Hong Kong and foreign-invested enterprises in Qianhai, Shenzhen, may agree on the applicable to be adopted when entering into to civil and commercial contracts. DoJ is now seeking the Central Authorities' support to extend these measures to the entire GBA while exploring the implementation of "WOHKEs (Wholly Owned Hong Kong Enterprises) to adopt Hong Kong law and choose for arbitration to be seated in Hong Kong" in GBA.

On mediation services, DoJ anticipates that as the various development projects in GBA are gradually implemented gradually and in order to tie in with the promotion of dispute resolution services in GBA, there will be a gradual increase in demand for dispute resolution services. Arbitration, mediation and other dispute resolution services will also be more widely used in GBA-related matters.

In 2020, Guangdong, Hong Kong and Macao endorsed the proposal to set up a GBA Mediation Platform. The GBA Mediation Platform will explore the promulgation of a set of unified qualification, accreditation and other relevant standards for mediators in GBA, and facilitate the establishment of a local panel of qualified GBA mediators in each of the three places. It will also study the formulation of best practices for mediation rules applicable to cross-boundary disputes and best practices for mediators' code of conduct.

As regards arbitration services, DoJ is actively materializing a number of initiatives with a view to improving arbitration services in Hong Kong, which include:

(a) the game-changing interim measures arrangement signed between Hong Kong and the Mainland in 2019 which allows parties to arbitral proceedings, which are seated in Hong Kong and administered by one of the six arbitral institutions, to seek assistance from the relevant court in the Mainland to obtain interim measures; and

(b) the Supplemental Arrangement Concerning Mutual Enforcement of Arbitral Awards between the Mainland and the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

5710 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

For all that there has been no mention of the intellectual property service sector, support for Hong Kong to develop into a regional intellectual property trading centre is specifically mentioned in the 14th Five-Year Plan, and the Intellectual Property Department is busily making preparations to support the development in this regard. As China and her people now rank first in the world in terms of the number of patents granted and applications for patent registration filed, there are business opportunities for Hong Kong that allow us to serve the State in the meantime, particularly when we are gradually developing original grant patents and establishing an intellectual trading platform with relevant publicity work underway.

Referring to digital infrastructure, electronic signature, industry and commerce registration, big data or digital economy, both Dr Elizabeth QUAT and Ms YUNG Hoi-yan have mentioned the potential of the field of innovation and technology. What they have referred to are relatively new service industries or even professional businesses, and I know that the Innovation and Technology Bureau ("ITB") will, under the framework of CEPA, explore whether such work as testing and certification can be further promoted. We hope that we can proceed step by step through mandatory product certification in the Mainland when new business opportunities in various fields arise. We will convey to ITB the views in this regard.

In his amendment to the motion, Mr Tony TSE mentions the opportunities for career development offered to Hong Kong's young people by GBA, and a number of Members shared his such view, including Mr Vincent CHENG and Mr CHAN Kin-por. The Labour and Welfare Bureau and the Home Affairs Bureau ("HAD") have commenced the work in this regard. To encourage and assist Hong Kong young people to grasp the great development opportunities in GBA, the Government launched the Greater Bay Area Youth Employment Scheme in January this year to encourage those enterprises with operations in both Hong Kong and GBA cities in the Mainland to employ university graduates from Hong Kong and send them to work in their offices in GBA.

With the experience of working in GBA, Hong Kong's young people can gain a better understanding of the Mainland market and the development opportunities presented by the State, and on the other hand, this will help them LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5711 build up their own networks of contacts. It will be beneficial to them either when they choose to return to Hong Kong or pursue career development in the Mainland.

In addition, HAD has launched the Funding Scheme for Youth Entrepreneurship in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Funding Scheme") under the Youth Development Fund to offer funding support to the selected youth start-ups while providing them with start-up support and incubation services, including helping them settle in the entrepreneurial bases in GBA. All those eligible young people in Hong Kong (including young professionals) who wish to start their own business can apply for funding to pursue development in GBA according to their development needs. The list of funded non-governmental organizations under the Funding Scheme was announced in February this year. A total of about $130 million was granted under the Funding Scheme for 16 different bodies to implement youth entrepreneurship projects. It is estimated that subsidies will be provided for about 230 youth start-ups (involving more than 800 young entrepreneurs), with start-up support and incubation services made available to about 4 000 young people. I believe the above may serve as a reply given in response to the views expressed by Members.

President, today's discussion has provided very good directions and support for the work of the Government, be it the work of individual Policy Bureaux in their respective areas of expertise or cross-bureau work (such as the work related to B&R Initiative or the development of GBA). I do agree with Members and will take on board their views.

Besides participating in the overall development of the State in terms of national policies or giving full play to Hong Kong's strengths to assist in the development of the Mainland, Hong Kong's professional sectors also have very good potential for pursuing vibrant development in the international arena. There are plenty of development opportunities in neighbouring countries outside of China, such as the member states of the Association of Southeast Asian Nation ("ASEAN") and the East Asia and Australasia countries covered under the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership ("RCEP"). These opportunities do not exist in isolation and Hong Kong has a unique role to play as China's international city or regional headquarter. Hong Kong, apart from better serving 5712 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 the 9 000-plus companies having chosen to set up their regional headquarters or regional offices here in our city, has been able to provide local enterprises (in particular those in the professional services sectors) with the opportunity to "go global" through the free trade agreements signed with its major trade partners in the region in recent years, including the 10 member states of ASEAN and Australia. In our recent free trade agreement with Australia, access to each other's market under more favourable conditions has been provided especially for professional bodies, including those belonging to the accountancy and engineering sectors. Access to each other's market does not only mean that our professional bodies have access to the Australian market but also mean that many enterprises can have access to the Mainland through Hong Kong. Hence, Hong Kong also plays the role mentioned by Members in the discussion just now.

As regards administrative arrangements, Members have mentioned the need for cross-bureau cooperation, and there is cooperative relationship within the Government with both vertical as well as horizontal cooperation across different departments/bureaux. Apart from the fact that each Policy Bureau has its own role to play in dealing with or supporting the professional sectors which it caters for, there is also cross-bureau cooperation at other levels as I have just mentioned, no matter if it is for B&R Initiative or the development GBA. In respect of major national policies such as B&R Initiative or the development GBA, the Chief Executive will oversee, coordinate and handle them in person, while all Policy Bureaux also must engage together in such work. We have also noticed in recent years that the Government's partner organizations (e.g. TDC) will enhance their services in GBA or B&R Initiative markets with the help of government funding, including the platform "GoGBA" (launched by TDC) mentioned by Members just now.

I hope to give Members confidence with my positive response. The Government will work hand in hand with relevant sectors and the entire business community to turn Hong Kong into a regional centre for professional services.

I so submit, President, and two of my colleagues will respond in relation to their respective areas next.

Thank you, President.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5713

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I thank quite a number of Members for their valuable opinions on the motion. The Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development has made an overall reply to Members' opinions just now, and I am going to give a supplementary reply to the opinions on the architectural and engineering professions.

I especially want to talk about the Interim Guidelines for the Management of Hong Kong Engineering Construction Consultant Enterprises and Professionals Starting Business and Practising in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area Cities ("the Interim Guidelines") that Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr Tony TSE have also mentioned earlier. The Interim Guidelines, which took effect on 1 January this year, are the concerted efforts of the Government, the relevant industry in Hong Kong and the Department of Housing and Urban-Rural Development of Guangdong Province for years. Under this arrangement, consultant firms on the two government lists of architectural and engineering consultants, as well as professionals registered with relevant registration boards in Hong Kong, will be able to provide services in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area") and take part in the development of the Mainland by obtaining equivalent qualifications in the Mainland through a simple registration system without the need to take any examinations.

In order to publicize and promote such a great arrangement, the Development Bureau, together with various professional institutes of the engineering, architectural, surveying, town planning and landscape sectors, have wasted no time in holding a number of conferences over the past period of time to enable professionals and corporations of the relevant industry to fully understand the details of this registration initiative. Moreover, a one-stop platform has been added to the website of the Development Bureau to introduce new related initiatives in the Greater Bay Area and provide links to the relevant Mainland websites and tender notices of construction projects in the Mainland. We will continue to promote related measures to the industry and assist relevant corporations and professionals in registration with Mainland departments in the near future.

We understand that the relevant sectors and professionals highly support the new arrangement of the Interim Guidelines implemented in the Greater Bay Area. In order to attract more Hong Kong corporations and professionals to take part in the development of the Greater Bay Area, we will continue to negotiate 5714 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 with relevant Mainland departments to explore the introduction of more pilot projects to nine cities in the Greater Bay Area, including the increasing adoption of Hong Kong's project management model to promote high-quality construction in the Greater Bay Area based on Hong Kong's experience and practices.

On the other hand, the Government has signed cooperation agreements with the three free trade zones in the Guangdong Province including Qianhai, Hengqin and Nansha, with a view to promoting exchanges and cooperation in terms of technical expertise and management between the relevant industries of the two places. Qianhai and Hengqin have already rolled out facilitation measures similar to the Interim Guidelines implemented in the Greater Bay Area. With wider coverage, such measures cover not only consultancies but also contractors. In the next step, the Development Bureau will explore with the relevant authorities of Nansha if similar measures can be implemented as early as possible. Moreover, we will explore with the Construction Industry Council ("CIC") the setting up of a CIC liaison office in the Greater Bay Area, which will coordinate the collaboration between Mainland and Hong Kong contractors in participating in the development projects in the Greater Bay Area, and will provide relevant assistance for Hong Kong enterprises and professionals in their development in the Greater Bay Area.

To sum up, the Government will take the Greater Bay Area as an entry point and better integrate into the overall development of our country by working together with the architectural and engineering industry in Hong Kong continuously, in a bid to contribute to the high-quality development of our country and bring more development opportunities to the relevant industries in Hong Kong.

President, I thank Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr Tony TSE again for putting forward this motion and amendment respectively. I so submit.

UNDER SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, I thank quite a number of Members for their speeches just now, including their valuable opinions on the financial services sector. In respect of various kinds of financial services, the HKSAR Government, together with the related regulators including the Hong Kong Monetary Authority ("HKMA"), the Securities and Futures Commission ("SFC") and the Insurance Authority, will continue to keep close contact with the Mainland authorities, major stakeholders and professional organizations LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5715 concerning the development opportunities of local professionals and enterprises, in a bid to formulate appropriate timely measures to facilitate the development of relevant sectors. I will now give a brief account of the related measures for five areas including the securities industry, wealth management, insurance, accounting service, as well as green and sustainable finance.

First of all, let me talk about the securities industry that Mr Christopher CHEUNG mentioned just now. The Arrangement Relating to the Qualifications of Securities and Futures Industry Practitioners under the Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement was signed between SFC of Hong Kong and the China Securities Regulatory Commission to provide for reciprocal recognition of professional knowledge and experience of professionals between the two places, so as to facilitate their obtainment of relevant licences. The Mainland has simplified the relevant procedures for Hong Kong professionals applying in the Mainland for securities and futures industry qualifications. Hong Kong professionals applying to obtain securities and futures industry qualifications of the Mainland only need to pass the examination on Mainland laws and regulations, while the examination on professional knowledge is not required. Professionals in the Hong Kong financial services sector can seize the opportunities brought about by the Belt and Road Initiative and the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area") through this channel.

Earlier, Mr CHAN Chun-ying mentioned the interface of the three places in the Greater Bay Area. In fact, in respect of wealth management, the People's Bank of China, HKMA of Hong Kong and the Monetary Authority of Macao announced in June last year their decision on implementing the cross-boundary wealth management connect pilot scheme ("Wealth Management Connect") in the Greater Bay Area. Wealth Management Connect enables individual residents in Hong Kong, Macao and nine cities in the Greater Bay Area to carry out cross-boundary investment in wealth management products distributed by banks in the Greater Bay Area, so as to meet the wealth management needs of residents of these places. It is planned that for northbound and southbound, there will be an aggregate quota of RMB150 billion in each direction and an individual investor quota of RMB1 million. While promoting the organic growth of our local wealth management market, Wealth Management Connect will drive the development of the entire financial services value chain in Hong Kong, encompassing product selling, asset management and product development, etc. The regulators of the three places have signed a Memorandum of Understanding on the principles of supervisory cooperation under the scheme in February this 5716 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 year. We will step up preparatory work by working with the relevant authorities continuously to expedite its implementation.

In respect of the insurance industry that Mr CHAN Kin-por mentioned, the HKSAR Government strives to make Hong Kong a global risk management centre and insurance hub. Together with the Insurance Authority, the Government has put forward a series of measures to assist the insurance industry in seizing new business opportunities. These measures include facilitating the issuance of insurance-linked securities ("ILS"), expanding the scope of insurable risks of captive insurers, and providing profits tax relief for insurance-related businesses so as to promote the development of marine insurance and the underwriting of specialty risks. The Insurance Authority just announced on Monday the details of the Pilot Insurance-linked Securities Grant Scheme, the purpose of which is to subsidize the upfront issuance costs of eligible ILS. We believe that these measures can help build a conducive ecology for the insurance industry in Hong Kong to leverage on the opportunities arising from the Belt and Road Initiative and the development of the Greater Bay Area.

In addition, in November 2019, the Central Government removed the eligibility requirement on years of operating experience for Hong Kong service suppliers to establish insurance loss adjusting companies on the Mainland, allowing them to be subject to the same regulatory standards applicable to Mainland insurance loss adjustors for business recordation. This measure will encourage more enterprises with distinctive expertise to expand their business to the Greater Bay Area. The Insurance Authority is also actively preparing for the establishment of Hong Kong Specialty Risks Consortium to facilitate project-based matching of Mainland corporations, professional services providers and insurance companies, and to provide them with tailor-made solutions.

Earlier, a few Members, including Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr Tony TSE and Mr Holden CHOW mentioned mutual recognition of professional qualifications, and Ms YUNG Hoi-yan also mentioned the opportunities for the accounting sector. In fact, in respect of accounting service, the accounting sector in Hong Kong has entered into agreements with accountancy bodies overseas on the different kinds of requirements of qualification recognition, thereby increasing job opportunities for Hong Kong accounting professionals. Moreover, there is mutual recognition of examination papers between Hong Kong and the Mainland. In obtaining a certified public accountant qualification in China, Hong Kong accounting professionals can be exempted from four papers. They can obtain the relevant qualification by getting a pass in economic law, taxation law and the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5717 comprehensive stage examination. This arrangement helps Hong Kong accounting professionals to get the qualifications needed to practise in the Mainland.

Regarding green and sustainable finance, as an international financial centre and the global off-shore Reminbi business hub of our country, Hong Kong can serve as a premier investment and financing platform for Mainland green enterprises and projects to raise funds through diversified channels such as issuing bonds, funds and initial public offerings. In the Outline Development Plan for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, the Central Government expressed its support for developing Hong Kong into a green financial centre, while in the Opinions on Financial Support for the Construction of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area promulgated in May 2020, it encouraged more enterprises in the Greater Bay Area to make use of the Hong Kong platform for the financing and certification of their green projects, and supported corporate financial institutions in Guangdong to issue green bonds and other green financial products in Hong Kong, so as to support the green enterprises and projects in the Greater Bay Area.

Meanwhile, we will keep encouraging Mainland enterprises to use the Hong Kong platform for the financing and certification of green projects under the Belt and Road Initiative. The Government announced in the 2020-2021 Budget the launch of a three-year Green and Sustainable Finance Grant Scheme to provide subsidy for eligible bond issuers and loan borrowers to cover their expenses on bond issuance and external review services, in a bid to support green and sustainable bond issuance and lending, and in turn further enrich the green and sustainable finance ecosystem in Hong Kong. And HKMA just announced the details of the Scheme yesterday.

President, we will actively continue to seize the immense opportunities brought about by the development of the Greater Bay Area and the Belt and Road Initiative. By leveraging the unique advantages of our financial system under the "one country, two systems" principle, Hong Kong will proactively become a participant in domestic circulation and a facilitator in international circulation in a bid to make contributions to the economic development and opening up of our country while promoting the development of the financial services sector in Hong Kong.

President, I so submit.

5718 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon Mr Tony TSE to move an amendment.

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): President, I move my amendment.

The amendment moved by Mr Tony TSE (See the marked-up version at Annex 1)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr Tony TSE be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the amendment passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, you still have 30 seconds to reply. Then, the debate will come to a close.

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, a total of 14 Members, including Mr Tony TSE who proposed an amendment and other colleagues, have spoken on this motion and I would like to express my gratitude to them. I hope my motion will have the support from the community so as to develop Hong LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5719

Kong into a professional services hub. I thank fellow Members for their support for this motion.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, as amended by Mr Tony TSE, be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the motion as amended passed.

SUSPENSION OF MEETING

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The remaining time before the suspension of the meeting today may not be sufficient for us to finish the next agenda item, i.e. the debate on the motion to be moved by Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan. In order to preserve the completeness of the motion debate and after seeking the opinion of Mr CHEUNG, we shall not commence the debate today and shall deal with his motion tomorrow.

I now suspend the meeting until 9:00 am tomorrow.

Suspended accordingly at 5:50 pm.

5720 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

Annex I

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5721

5722 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021 5723

Annex 1

The marked-up version of the amendment moved by Mr Tony TSE (Translation)

That, to seize the opportunities brought by the domestic and international 'dual circulation' strategy put forward by the country, this Council urges the Government to act appropriately having regard to the circumstances, by meeting the keen demand for professional services arising from the Belt and Road Initiative as well as the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area and capitalizing on Hong Kong's unique advantage of 'one country, two systems' and its international experience and network, to formulate complementary policies and measures to develop Hong Kong into a regional professional services hub, so as to seek more development opportunities for a wide range of professional personnel as well as large, medium and small enterprises in Hong Kong; specific measures are as follows:

(1) perfecting the mechanism for mutual recognition of professional qualifications and enterprise qualities between Hong Kong and the Mainland by including more Hong Kong professional sectors and enterprises currently not recognized by the Mainland in the scope of mutual recognition;

(2) striving for opening up more construction projects on the Mainland for participation by Hong Kong enterprises and professional personnel;

(3) in respect of the proposed Greater Bay Area Youth Employment Scheme and Funding Scheme for Youth Entrepreneurship in the Greater Bay Area, catering for the needs of Hong Kong young professional personnel and quasi-professional personnel such that their relevant professional work experience on the Mainland can be recognized in Hong Kong;

(4) implementing expeditiously the proposal on leveraging the international experience and professional strengths of Hong Kong to enhance the competitiveness of enterprises and professional services industries in Hong Kong and the Mainland to 'go global'; and

5724 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 5 May 2021

(5) maintaining close communication with the relevant Hong Kong professional bodies in formulating and implementing the above measures to avoid 'making a cart behind closed doors' and having non-professional personnel leading the professional personnel.

Note: Mr Tony TSE's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.