• 504 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. J.ANU.Al~Y 11, receive the same bounty aa those discharged on account of wounds ~o, the petition of Theo~ore D. Woolsey and others, representing to the Committee on Military Affairs. the mdnstnes .connecte«;; With the. b.ook and printing trade, for the ~y Mr. DAVID P. RICHARDSON : The petition of citizens of New passage of a ~ill extending the pnvilege of copyright in the United York, for the passage of Senate bill No. 496-to the Committee on In States to foreign authors, composers, and designers-to the Commit valid Pensions. tee on the Library. By Mr. ROSS: The petition of masters anq owners of vessels en gaged in the coasting trade of the United States, against compulsory pilotage-to the Committee on Commerce. IN ~ENATE. Als?, the pet~t~on o~ William. H. Gill, of Ne.~ Jersey, for the passage ()fa bill author1zmg hiS reappomtment as military storekeeper in the TUESDAY, Jamtary 11, 1881. Quartermaster's Department of the Army-to the Committee on Mili tary Affairs. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. J. J. BULLOCK, D. D. By Mr. SAPP: The petition of J. P. Fall and 118 others, citizens The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. of Mills County, Iowa, for legislation to prevent the spread of conta EXECUTIVE COM~fUNICATIONS. gions diseases among cattle-to the Committee on Agriculture. The VICE-PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a letter from the . By M~. S~WYER.: The.petition of citizens of the eighth congres Secretary of the Interior, transmitting, in compliance with the require SIOnal district of M1ssonn, for the passage of a law imposing a tax ments of the act of ~nly 15, 1870, a full and complete inventory of on incomes-to the Committee on Ways and Means. all property belongmg to the United States in buildings rooms :AJso, ~he petition of citizens of the eighth congressional district of offices, and grounds occupied by the Interior Department a~d nude~ Missouri, for the amendment of the patent laws so that innocent pur its charge; ~hich was ordered to lie on the table and be printed. chasers will be protected-to the Committee on Patents. He a~so.laJd before th~ S~nate a letter from the Secretary of War, Also, the petition of citizens of the eighth congressional district of t~an~mttting a co~nmcat10n frot;n the commanding officer of the .Missouri, that the Commissioner of Agriculture be made a member of diStrict of ~ew Mextco,.recommendmg that the right of way through the President's Cabinet-to the Committee on Agriculture. the Fort Bliss reservatiOn, Texas, be gra.nted t? the Atchison, Topeka Also, the petition of citizens of the eighth conaressional district of and Santa Fe and Southern New Menco Railroad Companies and .Missouri, for the passage of a judicious intersta~-commerce bill-to through the Fort Wingate reserve, New .Mexico, to the Atlanti~ and the Committee on Commerce. Pa~ific Railroad Company; which was referred to the Committee on By Mr. WILLIAM E. SMITH: A bill t.o improve the naviO'ation of Railroads. Flint River, in the State of Georgia-to the same committe;. PETITIONS AND ME.l\IORIALS. By Mr. STEPHENS: Memorial of citizens of Augusta, Georgia in behalf of an appropriation for the improvement of the SavannahRi;er 1\?'· FERRY presented the petition of the Lake Superior Ship-Canal betwe~n the cities of Savannah and Augusta, Georgia-to the sam~ Railway and lron Company and other land owners in Michigan comrm ttee. . praying that their rights in and title to their lands be ratified and Also, memorial of Charles H. Marshall and several hnndred others of confirmed; which was referred to the Committee on Public Lands. ¥r. ~ERNAN presented the petition of the board of trustees of the city of New York and other places in the United States incl~d Samt Vmcent's Orphan Asylum of Washington, District of Columbia, ing scientists and several professors of several colleges and ~Diversi praying that they be relieved from the payment of the assessment ties, P.raying th~t Congress pass an act reported by the Committee on Comage, Wetghts, and .Measures, and now pending in the Honse for special improvements; which was referred to the Committee on for the establishment of the metric system-to the Committee o~ the District of Columbia. · Coinage, Weights, and Measures. Mr. WALLACE presented the petition of John Smith and others Also, a bill to appropriate the sum of $40,000 for the improvement of Clearfield, Pennsylvania, praying for the passaO'e of a law forth~ of the navigation of the Savannah River above Augusta-to the Com equalization of bounties; which was referred to the Committee on mittee on Commerce. Military Affairs. Also, a bill to appropriate the sum of $86,000 for the improvement He also presented the petition of A. C. Jansen and others of Strouds of the navigation of . Savannah River below Augusta Georgia-to bnrgh, Pennsylvania, praying for the passage of the am~ndment re the same committee. ' porte~ b~ the Com~t~e ~n Pensions. to the. bill (S. No. 496) for the By .Mr. P. n. THOMPSON: The petitions of citizens of Stanford exammat10n and adJudicatiOn of pensiOn claims; which was ordered and Boyle Counties, Kentucky, against the renewal of Cumming's to lie on the table. patent on improved artificial gums and palates-to the Committee on REPORTS OF COMMITTEES. Patents. · Mr. MAXEY:, from the Committee on Military Affairs, to whom was Also, the petition of Milton Bunch, for the removal of the charge of referred the bill (S. No. 192"2) for the relief of Brigadier-General and desertion-to the Committee on Military Affairs. Brevet Major-General Edward 0. C. Ord, United States Army re By Mr. WILLIAM G. THOMPSON: The petition of Alexander ported it without amendent, and submitted a report thereon· whlch Dntfas and 72 others, citi~ens of Malcom, Iowa, and vicinity, for the was ordered to be printed. ' passage of an act preventmg the spread of pleuro-pneumonia-to the Mr. WALLACE, from the Committee on the Revision of the Laws Committee on Agriculture. to whom was referred the bill (S. No. 113) to correct an error in sec~ Also, the petition of A. Brecht & Son and 36 others for the amend tion 1588 of the Revised Statutes, in reference to the pay of retired ment of the bi~ (H. R. ~o: 64~0) regulating the mannfa~ture of vinegar officers of the Navy, reported it without amendment. by the alcoholic vaponzmg process-to the Committee on Ways and He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the bill Means. (~. N?.1647) anthoriz~g and empowering the clerks of the district and B~ Mr. V~LENTINE : The petition of H. Meerholz and 12 others, ctrcwt courts, respectively, to do certain acts therein mentioned soldters statiOned at Camp Sheridan, Nebraska; and of H. Mitchell reported it without amendment. ' and 17 others, of Palmyra, Nebraska, who served in the Union Army He also, from the Committee on Finance, to whom was referred the during the rebellion, for the passage of Senate bill No. 496-to the bill (H. R. No. 2968) for the relief of James D. Grant reported it Committee on Invalid Pensions. without amendment. ' Also, the petition of James W. Eaton and 58 others, stock ,raisers of Mr. BAYA;RD, from the Committee on :f~ance, to whom was re Nebraska, an~ o~ J. W. Eaton and others, of Nebraska, for the pas ferred the bill (H. R. No. 6545) to amentl slction 3524 of the Revised sage of the btllmtroduced by Mr. KEIFER, concerning pleuro-pneu StatuteR so as to authorize a charge for meltina or refining bullion monia-to the Committee on Agriculture. when at or above standard, reported it without~mendment. Also, the petition of John Devine and 22 others citizens of Boone Mr. KERNAN, from the Committee on Finance, to whom was re County, Nebraska, tJ:!.ati soldiers discharged for disease receive the ferred the. bill (S. No. 1905) changing the name of the First National same bounty as those discharged on account of wounds-to the Com Bank of West Meriden, in the county of New Haven and State of mittee on Militarv Affairs. Connecticut, reported it without amendment. By Mr. WASHBURN: The petition of Elisha Mills of Houston Mr. WINDOM, from the Committee on Appropriations to whom Minnesota, and 21 others, of similar import-to the sa~e committee: was referred the .bP.l (H. R. No. 6614) making appropriati~ns for the ByM.r. WILBUR: The petition of E. D.Farmerand54others forthe support of the !\fihtary Academy for the fiscal year ending June 30 passage of Senate bill No. 496-to the Committee on Invalid P~nsions. 1882, and for other purposes, reported it with an amendment. ' By Mr. WILLIS: The petition of Dr. John R. Hulett of La ~· CAMERON, of Pennsylvania,. from the Committee on Military Grange, Ken~nc~y, against the reissue of the John A. cu'mmings A!fa~rs 1 to who~~~ referred t~e bill (S. No. 1486) to reorganize and patent on art1fic1al ~nms and palates-to the Committee on Patents. dlSctplme the militta of the Umted States, submitted an adverse re Also, pa~er~ relatmg to the pension claim of Clara L. Prenss-to port thereon; which was ordered to be printed, and the bill was post- the Committee on Invalid Pensions. · poned indefinitely. . Also, papers relating to the bill for the relief of John ~zer & He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the bill Brothers, of Louisville, Kentucky-to the Committee on Ways and (~. R. No. 735) for the relief o! Dr. John Blankenship, reported it Means. w1thont amendment, and submitted a report thereon; which wasor By Mr. WALTER A. WOOD: The petition of citizens of New York dered to be printed. for tb~repeal of the stamp tax on proprietary medicines-to the sam~ Mr. HARRIS, from the .Committee on the District of Columbia, to commlttee. whom was refeiTed the btll (H. R. No. 5541) to establish a mnnicipal By Mr. CASEY YOUNG: The petition of S. Mansfield -& Company code for the District of Columbia., reported it with amendments. and o~hers, of Memphis, Tennessee, of similar import-to the same BILLS INTRODUCED. comnnttee. Mr. KERNAN asked and, by unanimous consent, obtained leave to 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE.
introduce a bill (S. No. 2010) for the relief of Saint Vincent's Orphan Mr. ANTHONY. I do not understand the Senator from New York. Asylum in the city of Washington, District of Columbia; which was Does he say that nnless this clause is stricken out a. hardened crimi read twice by its title, and referred to the Committee on the District nal cannot be punished f of Columbia. Mr. KERNAN. If we do not strike out the words the clause will Mr. SLATER asked and, by unanimous consent, obtained leave to read this way : introduce a bill (S. No. 2011) to reduce the price of even-numbered That all vicious, willfully idle, or disorderly persons in the District of Columbia, sections of public lands within the limits of any railroad, military, without any fixed, regular, or lawful means of snpport, who habitually go from. or wagon-road grant to pre-emption settlers thereon to $1.25 per a-cre; door to door, or place to place, or occnpy pnblio places for the pnrpose of begging which was read twice by its title, and referred to the Committee on or receiving alms. Public Lands. I propose to strike out" who habitually go from door to door, or Mr. INGALLS asked and, by unanimous consent, obtained leave to place to place, or occupy public places for the purpose of receiving introduce a bill (S. No. 2012) granting a pension to Gottlob Schaubel; alms," so tbat all vicious persons, all willfully idle or disorderly per which wa-s read twice by its title, and, with the accompanying papers, sons, will be punished, with pickpockets and others, without confin referrerl to the Committee on Pensions. ing it to those of such classes who habitually go about asking or Mr. KELLOGG asked and, by unanimous consent, obtained leave receiving alms. to introduce a bill (S. No. 2013) for the relief of Peter Targarona; Mr. VANCE. If the Senator from New York will permit me, what which was read twice by its title! and referred to the Committee on becomes of the word " or" in line 5 f Claims. The VICE-PRESIDENT. That is already stricken out. MARYLAND AND DELAWARE SHIP·CANAL. ·:Mr. VANCE. Was that st.ricken out on motion of the Senator from New York~ Mr. GROO~. I ask leave to present an amendment to the bill The VICE·PRESIDENT. On motion of the Senator from Massa (S. No. 24f3) to aid in the construction of theMarylandand Delaware chusetts, [Mr. HoAR.] Ship-Canal, and to secure to all ves.sels of the United States service, Mr. KERNAN. The Senator from Massachusetts moved to strike for all time, the right of navigation through said canal free of tolls that out, and he also moved to strike out "idle" and insert "will and charges. I move that the bill with the amendment embodied in folly idle" after " vicious," in line 3. it be reprinted and referred to the Committee on Transportation Mr. VANCE. The Senator from New York, I believe, voted for the Routes to the Seaboard. motion of the Senator from Massachusetts to strike that out. The motion was agreed to. Mr. KERNAN. I do not remember whether I did or not. WITHDRAWAL OF PAPERS. Mr. VANCE. And now the Senator proposes to remedy the defect On motion of .Mr. WALLACE, it was . after concurring with the Senator from Massachnsetts-- Ordered, That Mrs. Eliza J. McConnell have leave to withdraw her papers from Mr. KERNAN. I did not cone~ with the Senator from Massachu the files of the Senate. setts, but I said that that would not obviate my amendment and li REPORT ON FISH .Al'lo"D FISHERIES. should insist on having a vote upon it. Mr. BECK submitted the following resolution; which was referred Mr. ANTHONY. I understand that the amendment strikes out the· to the Committee on Printing : power to arrest a juvenile beggar, which I think is the most impor tant part of the bill. I appeal to every Senator to bear me out when Resolved by the Senate, (the Hot/.86 of RqwesentatirJes concurring,) Tba.t 3,000 copies each of the first and second volumes of the Reports of the United State![! I say it is impossible to walk from the Capitol to the Treasury with Fish Commission be printed, of which "100 shall be for the use of the Senate, 1,800 out being solicited on an average at least ten times by little boys and for the use of the House, and 500 for the use of the Commission of Fish and Fish girls who are growing up in vice and wickedness, an1 it is to prevent eries. that rather than to punish hardened criminals that I think is the :Mr. BECK. I present a. memorandum of Professor Baird, explana; great merit of the bill. tory of the resolution, which I desire to file and have referred to the Mr. BAYARD. Let me ask the honorable Senator does he consider committee also. that a proper punishment for these youthful vagrants will be to bind The VICE-PRESIDENT. It will be so referred. them over to $300 security or send them to jail for one year f Is not MESSAGE FROM TIIE HOUSE. the proper cure for such class of oftenders to be found in a well-reg-· A message from the House of Representatives, by Mr. GEORGE M. ulated system of police 'I Is it.possible that there is not a discretion to-day reposed in the policemen of this cityto curb all of this youth ADAMS, its Clerk, announced that the House had passed a joint reso lution (H. R. No. 337) authorizing and requesting the President to ful vagrancy which the honorable Senator objects to in common with extend to the Government and people of France an invitation to join ns allY The supervisory power and the necessary discretion which the Government and people of the United States in the observance ought t6 be reposed in committing magistrates and in a well-regn-· of the centennial anniversary of the surrender of Lord Cornwallis at lated police would reach the whole class of offenses contemplated by Yorktown, Virginia, in which it requested the concurrence of the the section now under consideration. I submit to the Senator that Senate. it is going very far and instituting a. very harsh measure to compel a child of tender years to find bail in '300 or go for one year to a prison The ~Pessage also announceu that the House had concurred in the amendment of the Senn.te to the bill (H. R. No. 5047) relating to the house. appointment of professors of mathematics in the Navy. The whole control of this matter can be safely left to a sober, up right, sensible police corps. They can control it all i they can cure ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. all of these minor delinquencies against society which do not rise to T~e message {"luther announced that the Speaker of the House had the grade of crime, which may perhaps develop into crime unless signed the following enrolled bills; and they were thereupon signed checK:ed, but the crime is really the crime of want and poverty, if by the Vice-President: crime it be. It may be the nursery of crime; it may be the seed A bill (S. No. 105) for the relief of John GanH, jr., late a major of ·from which crime is developed; but I do submit that it ought not to the Twenty-eighth Regiment of Kentucky Volunteer Infantry; . be punished in the way that the bill contemplates, and for that rea A bill (S. No. 323) for the relief of the Winnebago Indians in 1\Fis son I shall vote to strike out not only this clause, bnt I should be consin, and to aid them to obtain subsistence by agricultural pur very glad to vote against the whole provision. suits, and to promote their civilization; Mr. ANTHONY. If any discretion is given the police, it has never · A bill (S. No. 549) for the relief of Samuel I. Gustin; been exercised, and I supposed that the bill proposed to transfer that A bill (S. No. 814) for the relief of the legal representatives of discretion from the police to a magistrate. It is not to be supposed Henry .M. Sbreve, decea~ed ; and that a magistrate will hold a little beggar child for "300 bail. A bill (S. No. 1353) for the relief of theN. & G. Taylor Company. .Mr. BA.YARD. The law will compel him. VAGRANCY IN THE DISTRCT. Mr. ANTHONY. He can discharge him under his own recognizance. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The business of the morning hour is con 1\Ir. BAYARD. If we pass this act, such will be the result. cluded, and the Senate proceeds to the consideration of the Calendar Mr. HOAR. Is the Senator from Delaware aware that the bill of General Orders under the standing order of the day. has been amended making it discretionary entirely with the magis The bill (S. No. 1477) for the punishment of tramps in the District trate Y Au amendment has been already adopted which gives the of Colombia. was announced as first in order upon the Calendar, and magistrate the discretion ; so that if he is right that there i~ a dis the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed its consideration. cretion now in the police, the point is whether it is best to lodge that The VICE-PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment pro discretion in- Mr. Bumble or in some magistrate. l posed by the Senator from New York, [Mr. KERNAL~,] which will be lli. KIRKWOOD. I shall vote to strike out these words. When read. they shall have been striken out if they shall so be, the section will The t:niEF CLERK. In section 1, line 5, after the word "support," stand thus: it is proposed to strike out '(who habitually go from door to door, or That all Ticious, willfnlly idle, or disorderly persons in the District of Colnm- · place to place, or occupy public places for the purpose of begging or bia without any fixed, regular, or lawful means of snpport- receiving alms." shaU be liable to punishment. If the words are left in, children who The question being put, there were on a division-ayes 17, noes 12; are engaged in begging, who may not be vicious, willfully idle, or no qoororu voting. disorderly will be liable to be punished; and I do not feel like doing Mr. KERNAN. I ask :Cor the yeas and nays. that. Making merely the asking of alms a crime, it seems to me is The yeas and nays were ordered. rather severe. If persons engaged in asking alms are either vicions Mr. KERNAN. If these words are not stricken out, you cannot or willfully idle or disorderly they are punishable when these words . punish a vicious person unless he goes habitually about and asks or shall have been stri~en out, and I think it judicions to leave the· .receives alms. bill in that way. · • 506 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 11,
Mr. ANTHONY. That would leave the evil of juvenile vagrancy lawyer1 and understand his great success heretofore in defending entirely untouched. men wllo have been charged with crime, and upon the ground of in Mr. KIRKWOOD. Not unless vagrancy merely consists in begging. sanity. I remember a memorable case in my own State in which he If the juvenile beggar be a vicious person, a willfully idle person, was very snccessfnl. But this is not a criminal statute ; it is not a or a disorderly person, he or she is still liable to punishment with statute punishing crime. It is a statute describing who shall be these words stricken out. It is only those who beg who are neither treated as vagrants and who shall be confined and kept off the public vicious, willfully idle, nor disorderly who are covered by the words streets. That is all it is, and all that my amendment provides is that proposed to be stricken out. A person asking alms who is neither an insane person shall not be treated as a vagrant and shall not be vicious nor willfully idle nor disorderly is liable to punishment as required to ~ive security. the bill now stands if he or she merely asks alms. Mr. VOORHEES. Allow me to say to the Senator from Maryland Mr. ANTHONY. The punishment of these little vagrants would t hat we already have our laws on the subject of bow insane people be merely to take them np and take care of them. in the District are to be treated. We have a very elaborate and a Mr. WHYTE. Before the vote is taken upon striking out, I would very benevolent code on that subject. We have a Government hos suggest to the Senator from New York that we may probably amend pital for the insane, so that if a person comes here from any part of this part of the bill to be satisfactory to him, if we consent to put in the United States or any place else and is found to be insane, a man after" support" the words" or professional mendicants who habit ner of finding that fact is pointed out in laws already existing, and ually go from door to door," so a~ to reach a class of people who live such person is provided for and taken care of now, absolutely. There by beg~ing and not by work. fore, I do not think there is any necessity of interposing any further lli. KERNAN. Let us take the vote on the pending amendment protection for that class of persons to keep them from being treated aa first. vagrants or tramps. The laws already take care of the insane who Mr. WHYTE. Very well. may be found in this District. I must say that to my mind the bill The question being taken by yeas and nays, resulted-yeas 22, nays that is proposed here is not in the nature of a criminal statute, and 29; as follows : while there is not much in thisqnestionexcept the harmony of a law YEA.S-22. I cannot for my part vote, and seem thereby to proclaim t]lat it is Allison, Conklin , Jones of Florida, Slater, necessary so to say, that an insane person shall not be punished. Bayard, Davis o1mmoiB, Kernan, Veat, Mr. CARPENTER. Mr. President, I understand the Senator from Brown, Eaton, Kirkwood, Walker, Call, Farley, Morgan. Wallace. Maryland, who has charge of this bill, to declare that it is not in Carpenter, Johnston, Pngh, tended to punish crime-- Coke, Jonas, Saulsbury, :Mr. WHYTE. I have not charge of it. The Senator from North NAYS-29. Carolina [Mr. VANCE] has charge of it. Anthony, Dawes, Kellogg, Vance, Mr. CARPENTER. The Senator from Maryland who sympathizes Beck, Ferry, 'Logan, Voorhees, with it, then. This bill certainly provides that for the things men Blair, Garland, McMillan, Whyte, tioned in the bill persons may be sentenced by the court to confine Booth, Groome, Morrill, Williams, Bnrnside, Hampton, Platt, Windom. ment at hard labor. Now, I understand that slavery is enforced labor Cameron of Pa.., Harris, Ransom, for some other cause than crime of which the party has been duly Cameron of Wis., Hoar, Rollins, convicted, and I understand, to put the proposition in a positive form, Davia of W.Va., Ingall.s, Saunders, that any man who is enforced to labor by law, except as punishment ABSENT-25. for crime of which he has been duly convicted, is enslaved. After Bailey. Grover, McDonald. Sharon, all the eloquence that has been poured forth and t,he blood that has Baldwin, Hamlin McPherson, Teller, sanctioned it to get rid of slavery in this country, I should regret ex Blaine, Herefo~d, Maxey, Thnnnan, Brnce, Hill of Colorado, Pad'dook, Withers. ceedingly if the Senate, out of ~~ony nervous, panicky fear about tramps Bntler, Hill of Georgia, Pendleton, and to secure themselves immunity from being asked by a poor boy Cockrell. Jones of NeVada, Plnmb, on the stre~t for a penny for sweeping the stones we pass over, should Edmnnda, Lamar, Randolph, vote to establish slavery by the positive provisions of an act of Con So the amendment was rejected. gress. I submit to the Senator in all candor if that be not the very Mr. WHYTE. I suggest to tile Senator from North Carolina thu essence and definition of slavery. He sayt1 this is not a bill to punish insertion of the words " not insane~ after '' disorderly persons" in crime; it is not a criminal bill. It does provide that persons may be line 3 of section 1; so as .to read " that all vicious, willfnlly idle, or arrested and tried and imprisoned at hard labor. That is slavery, disorderly persons, not insane." unless it be for crime of which the party has been convicted. Mr. VANCE. I believe it has been always held that insanity is a The VICE-PRESIDENT. The question is on the amendment pro defense for any crime, and I have no objection to the amendment. posed by the Senator from Maryland [Mr. WHYTE] in line 3 of sec The VICE-PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Maryland pro tion 1, after the word " per!Son" to insert "not insane." pose that amendment ' Mr. CARPENTER. I ask for the yeas and nays on that. Mr. WHYTE. Yes, sir. The Senator from North Carolina has no The yeas and nays were ordered; and being taken, resulted-yeas objection to it, I understand. 25, nays 21 ; as follows: • Mr. CARPENTER. I have two objections to that amendment. In YE.AS-25. the first place, I never read a criminal statute which declared that Bayard. Dawes, Lamar, Vance, .any man being of sound mind, or being of disposable memory, who Beck, Groome, Morgan. Vest, Booth, Hampton, Moriill, Walker, shall steal a horse shall be guilty of larceny. The fact that a ma.n is Bnrnside, Harris, Pendleton, Whyte. insane is a defense recognized everywhere and need not be recognized Cameron of Wis., !ngalls, PnJth, in any statute. My second objection is that if the amendment were Coke, Joh.nston, Rollins, made this bill would be utterly useless, for I am certain that no tramp. Davis of W. Va., Jonas, BanlBbury, 111ot insane would ever come into this District. [Laughter.] NAYS-21. Mr. WHYTE. The Senator from Wisconsin always amuses when .AJ.:.(JA,n, Farley, Kirkwood, Voorhees, ·ever he instructs. But the words "not insane" refer to "disorderly Blair, Ferry, Logan, Willia.ma, Cameron of Pa., Garland, McMillan, Windom. persons" only," disorderly persons not insane." A man might be Carpenter, Hoar, Platt, punished who was insane for being disorderly nnder the bill, if we did Conkling, Jones of Florida, Saunders., not provide that he should not be. . Davis of lliinois, Kellogg, Slater, Mr. CARPENTER. Does the Senator· mean to provide substan ABSENT-30. tially that insane persons who may be disorderly t!hall not be re Anthony, Cockrell, Jones of Nevado., Ransom, .strained by the police or by any other force in the city¥ Bailey, Eaton, Kernan, Sharon. Mr. WHYTE. No, I do not mean they shall not be restrained by Baldwin, .Edmnnda, McDonald, Teller, the police, but they shall not be punished by the court. All that my Blaine, Grover, McPherson, Thnrman, Brown, Hamlin, Maxey, Wallace, .amendment provides for is that they shall not be punished by the Bruce, Hereford, Paddock, Withers. .court. It is in all the tramp statutes nearly that I have seen, and it Hutler , Hill of Colorado, Plumb, is a measure of precaution which legislators have used. In the very Call, Hill of Georgia, Randolph, last one, of 1880, I :find the very words, " every person, not insane;" So the amendment was agreed to. who does so and so shall be punished. Mr. MORGAN I offer the amendment which I send to the Chair. Mr. VOORHEES. Do I understand the Senator from Maryland, 'l'he Chief Clerk read the amendment, which was to strike out all with his weight , ability, and reputation as a lawyer, to ask the Sen of the bill after the enacting clause and insert : ate to legislate affirmatively that an insane person shall not be pun That the commissioners of the DiRtrict of Columbia are authorized and empow ished f I suppose there is not a civilized community on the face of ered to adopt all ordinances, consistent with the laws and Constitution of the t he globe where insanity is not taken cognizance of by the court as United States, that may be necessary to repress vagrancy and mendicancy, and an absolute defense for any conduct of which a person may be guilty. to pnuish offenses against public decency in the District of Columbia: Provided, That in no case shall the fine or amercement to be imposed under such ordinances '1 for one shall not with my views st ultify myself by voting for such exceed $100, nor shall imprisonment when imposed by such ordinances exceed ape an amendment. I have myself pleaded the defense of insanity in riod of three calendar months. • this District in behalf of persons charged with crime; and in a stat SEC. 2. That the police court of the District of Columbia shall ha•e jnris diotioa ute to say that insanity is a defense for alleged crime to be taken to try ali offenses made punishable by snch ordinances, and to enforce tb.e same. ·cognizance of, I should regard as a piece of surplusage, to use no Mr. MORGAN. Mr. President, I think the country will not be satis flarsber term. fied, after the discussions of a few morning~ past, with spending the .Mr. WHYTE. I admire the Senator from lilndiana as a criminal time of the Senate in the enactment of mere ordinances for the local • 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 507
1 government of Washington. My purpose in moving this amendment true that we have three commissioners appointed by the President; ia to draw the attention of the Senate to the subject ~f the necessity it is true that one of them is an officer of the Army, and that may of creating for the city of Washington its own code of ordinances. be a constitutional reason why you cannot confer upon him legisla The difficulty under which this community is now laboring, and as tive power; but if that be a constitutional objection it would be will be seen from the remarks of the Senator from North Carolina equally an objection that we cannot confer upon him administra [Mr. VANCE] yesterday is a serious difficulty, has originated from ~he tive or executive power, bP.cause the point in the case would simply Ifact that we have removed the people too far from the governmg be that while be bolUs office as a military officer he cannot exercise power. Congress, while it is the proper body for legislation concern ' ivil functions. That would be the wh9le sum and substance of the ing the greater affairs of the District of Columbia, is neither an point. appropriate nor is it ap efficient body for the purpose of governing But, sir, in 1871 a territorial go\'ervment was enacted here, and it in these minor police regulations which are essential to the govern was enacted by the republican party of this country when it had a. ment of every large city, and particularly a city which has a popula two-thirds majority in both branches of the·Federal Congress and tion so thoroughly cosmopolitan as this has. had the President; and in 1874 that same party, with nearly the It has been suggested by the honorable Senator from North Caro same majority, and with the Presidency in its power, repealed that lina that my amendment is not constitutional. The ground of his law and deprived the citizens of Washington of all participation in objection of unconstitutionality I have not heard; but if this amend their own government, and substituted in place of their local gov ment is unconstitutional then the Congress of the United States since ernment the government of Congress bearing directly on them the year 1802 bas been eedulonsly engaged from time to time in passing through the executive agency of three commissioners, one of whom unconstitutionallaws on this subject. In the year 1802 the Congress of was selected from the Army. the United States chartered the city of Washinoton and conferred The pe6ple of the United States are bestirring themselves, and the power of selecting one of the houses provided for its local gov would like to know why it is that this power of government given ernment upon the people who were authorized by ballot to elect cer to the people of Washington in 1871 was taken away from them in tain aldermen. The appointment of a mayor was confided to the 1874. There can be but one answer to that proposition, Mr. President, President of the United States. The requirements of the electors of and the republican party are responsible for that answer. After the local officers were that they should be white male persons of the age emanci patiou of the negroes of the South many of them came to this of twenty-one years. That charter gave to the corporate authorities place as a city of refuge. They came here to get under the wing of of the city of Washington the power to pro~ide ordinances of every the Government and under the shadow of the Capitol. Freed from all kind and character necessary for the police regulations of the city. constraint, emboldened to become violators of the law, they went The matter stood in that ·way, with some amendments of the law, to work in this community and they wrought such deeds of terrible but no abandonment of the principle of the right of local govern crime that the republican party in the Senate and in the House of ment by the city of Washington, until the year 1871, when the Con Representatives was compelled to take away from them all partici gress of the United States erected a territorial government ~n the Dis pation in government. No man can state the reason truthfully, trict of Columbia and authorized the people of Washington to elect founded upon the history of events in this country since 1871, which a delegate to Congress and a legislature, and provided for the ap will account for this sudden and remarkable change of policy on the pointment of a. governor by the President and gave the legislature part of the republican party in this country, except the one simple the power of legislation, subject to revision by Congress, which of .fact that the negroes from the South flocked into Washington City course reserved to Congress the power to repeal or modify their ordi and participated in the government of its people. nances. Of course the power to modify is included in the power to Now, sir, it has been the subject of continual reproach to ns from repeal. Under section 50 of that act, it was provided: the Southern States that we have not been extending to the colored All acts of the legislative assembly shall at all times be subject to repeal or modi population all the rights, privileges, and immunities of citizenship fication by the Congress of the Unlted States, and nothing shall be construed to in the United States. We have sat here year after year and listened deprive Congress ofthe power of legislation oTer the District in aa ample manner to these reproaches falling from the lips of men who themselves had aa if this chapter had not been enacted. been compelled to take away what they had conferred on the col And section 91 provides that: ored people for no other reason in the world than that they were Allla.ws and ordinanoos of the cities of Washington :mel Georgetown, respect ively, and of the levy court of the District of Columbia., not inconsistent with this found to be incapable of proper participation in the affairs of gov chapter, and except aa modified or repealed by Congress or the le~islative assem. ernment. Their protestation of philanthropy, their profession of gen bly of the District since the 1st day of June, 1871, or until so modified or repealed, erosity to the negro race, their displaying themselves with proud and remain in full force. Pharisaical pretense before the world as the champions of the right Thereby, in 1871, giving a direct congressional sanction to all the of the negro in this country to vote and to participate iu holding laws and ordinances that had obtained in this District before that office, has all been answered in the District of Columbia, and answered time. It seems to me that if there had been any serious ground of to the utter overthrow of every argument they have made heretofore constitutional objection against the devolution of this sort of legisla and every assertion which they have made in support of their own tive power upon the corporate authorities of the city of Washington, conduct or in condemnation of ours. somebody would have found it out before the year 1881. I shall pass This subject reaches very much deeper, Mr. President, than the mere by that portion of the argument, therefore, without further answer. surface view which I am at this moment taking of it. There is some Congress has as broad a power over this subject here aa any State thing in this question of the return to the people in the District of has in reference to the government of the particular mnnicipallocal Columbia of the rights of local government which reaches down to ity which is its seat of government by a delegation of legislative the bottom of our institutions and proves one of two propositions, municipal power to certain corporate bodies. The cases are entirely either that we committed an error in permitting the negro to partici parallel, and I can see no objection that would obtain in the one case pate in civil government as a voter and law-maker and office-holder that would not obtain in the other. in the United States, or that we are doing extremely wrong in the Now, this measure does not go so far as I should like it to go. I District of Columbia in withholding from him all participation in should like to see a local government organized for the city of Wash government. ington and for the District of Columbia; and I think it is not only The republican party is solid on this, Mr. President. Ay, it is due to our own respect for the genius of our institutions that we should solid! Complaint is made of the South that it is solid for the de so organize a government here, but it is due to the proper exercise of mocracy; but here stands an example upon the statute-books of the the powers of government. My own experience here, my observation country which proves that the republican party that has had ab of Washington, has taught me that more crimes of a heinous nature, solute power in the country to rule and regulate these matters and particularly robbing females of their dearest treasure, have been which are of the most immense concern to the people of Washing committed in the city of Washington since I have been a Senator than ton, are solid, solid in the denial of the right of the negro to par have been committed in any State of the American Union. There is ticipate in the government of this District. This subject has come a reason for this. The reason is that the people of this District have up in various forms. The South is being continually twitted and no part or participation whatever in their government, either a. legis abused and maligned in reference to her supposed policy, an imputed lative participation or an administrative participation, and the Con policy, which baa been fastened upon her and which she bas been gress of the United States is so far removed from them in sympathy compelled to execut-e to t.be best of her ability, and yet by the gen and in interest, being made up of members who come from all sec tlemen who have thus maligned her no sort of a remedy baa been sug tions of this great country, that it is not to be expected that they gested in behalf of those people in whose favor they continue these @bould .have the same reverence and respect for. the law that they loud and peculiar protestations of love and affection. would have if it was enacted and enforced by a. body of men some In his annual message to Congress at this session the Preside11.t what responsive to them in sympathy and feeling. of the United States urges upon the Senate and House of Representa I believe in the doctrine of local government; I believe in the doc tives that, in the exercise of what is clearly their exclusive right, to trine of representative government; and I believe that it is the duty judge of the election and qualification of their membership, they of Congress so far as it can delegate its powers to do so into the hands "will see to it that every case of violation of the letter or spirit of ,()f those people who happen to occupy the District of Columbia. It the fifteenth amendment is thoroughly investigated, and that no ben makes no difference to me what sort of people they are so that they efit from such violation shall accrue to any person or party." The are citizens of the United States, so that they are people entitled to spirit of the fifteenth amendment allows the negroes to vote in the participate in the affairs of the Government and to hold their repre District of Columbia; the letter of it may not. Who would think of sentatives to a proper degree of responsibility. excluding a negro from the right of suffrage in a Territory beca1188 I hope that the Senators, at least from the South, will not deny to States and only States happened to be mentioned in the fifteenth the people of Washington some participation in government. It is amendment' This is a new subject, however, for a President to take 508 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 11~ charge of-the membership ~f the two Houses. That amendment tight to vote in their local government, but that right baa been taken reads thus: away in the Federal Capital for no other reason or purpose than to The ri~rht of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged get rid of the votes of the negro race. And the District of Columbia, by the United States or by a.ny Stat-e Oil acconnt of race, color, or previous condi· with more population and wealth than some of the States, is gov tion of servitude. . erned by commissioners appointed by the President. This has been It is too plain for argument that no mere" person" and no " party" the work of the republican party. can violate this amendment otherwise than by aiding a State to enact The real purpose of this arraignment of the South for a violation • or enforce laws that violate it. The amendment is a prohibition upon of the fifteenth amendment is not stated in the message, but it is any action of a State or of the United States amounting to a denial scarcely well concealed. It ia to place the sectional division of the or abridgment of the right of q. citizen to vote on account of race, country that was disclosed in the recent election upon a. false ground. color, or previous condition of servitude; and that is precisely what The President attempts to justify this sectional division on the the Congress of the United States has done in this matter. The ground of the alleged" resistance to and nullification of the results United States have denied to the white people of the District of Co of the war" by the people of the South, and the indignation of the lumbia the right to vote, merely because in voting they were com people of the North toward us becanse of frauds in the conduct of pelled to mingle their suffrages with a set of men whom the repub elections in the Southern States. Neither of these propositions is lican party now hold are not fit to control government in this District. borne out in the history of the country. There is not a State in the The fifteenth amendment only applies when the laws of a State or South that has not in every form emphasized its adhesion to the of the United States abridge or deny the right to vote. It does not three constitutional amendments which embody all that the Govern apply to the conduct of an individual. The advice the President ment of the United States has claimed to be "the results of the war.'" essays to give in reference to their membership to the two Houses They have even humiliated themselves in order to make their mean of Congress is about as appropriate as it would be for the Houses to ing plain. The proofs of record, in Congress and elsewhere, also ea advise him that he should not permit race or color to exclude men tabli!!h the fact that elections in the Northern States have been more from his Cabinet or from the bench. He advises us to exclude Sen controlled by violence and intimidation and more corrupted by fraud ators from seats in this Chamber, not because any State in choosing than they have ever been in the South. The real leaders of the re them has in its laws made unconstitutional discriminations ugainst publican party have not been so wanting in discretion as to stake the the right of any person to vote on account of race, color, or previous result of a presidential election upon a comparison of the conduct of condition of servitude, but because he bas jumped to the conclusion the North with that of the South in reference to intimidation and that some person or some political party has not dealt fairly with fraud in elections. them in receivin~ or counting their votes. And this, he argues, is a We have a. Federal judiciary in the South composed entirely of re violation of the fifteenth amendment. The logic of these deductions publicans, and we have a national criminal code that is as broad and is far beyond the comprehension of ordinary men; and his advice is as severe as the most rabid partisan could require for the punishment;. gratuitous and wanting in respect to a co-ordinate department of the of political offenses. Government. This advice is based on the following statement in the Why is not the President satisfied with such laws and such agent& message: to put them into execution t The judges are not reluctant, the in Continued opposition to the full a.nd free enjoyment of the ri~hts of citizenship formers are paid more for their attendance at court than they can earn conferred UlJOn the colored lJOOple by the recent amendments to the Constitution in other pursuits, and perjury is liberally paid for by the day's work. stillJ!revails in several of the late slaveholding States. It has, perhaps, not been There is no. appeal to the Supreme Court from the judgments of the mamfested in the recent election to any larp;e extent in acts of violence or intimi· inferior courts when comprised of a single judge, so that it seldom dation. It baa, however, by fraudulent practices in connection with the ballots, with the regulations as to the places and manner of voting. and with counting, re· happens that there can be a judicial exposure of the tyrannies from turnin:t. and canvassing the votes cast, been successful in defeating the exercise of which innocent men suffer. the ri~ht preservative of all rights, the right of suffrage, which the Constitution This E.hould be enough of p9wer and of unsparing cruelty in it& expressly confers upon our enfranchised citizens. exercise to satisfy any government in dealing with a free people. This statement arraigns the southern people as the only violators But the President becomes madly heroic in his threats to urge unspar of the Constitution. In order to gain some support for his unjust ac ing public prosecutions. He says "it will be the duty of the Execu cusation the President says that the Constitution expressly confers tive, with sufficient appropriations for the purpose, to prosecute un upon our enfranchised citizens the right of suffrage. That he should sparingly all who have been engaged in depriving citizens of the not better understand the Constitution of the United States would rights guaranteed to them by the Constitution." An unsparing pros be a calamity if he had any power to execute the fourteenth and fif ecution is not the most lawful or Christian method of dealing with teenth amendments without the aid of Congress and the judiciary. even the worst criminals. "Justice tempered with mercy" is a more The charges thus laid at the door of the people of many States are becoming spirit tbau partisan zeal inflamed with hate. so vague and indefinite and so destitute of specifications as to fully The President demands that "sufficient appropriations" shall be justify the answer that they have no real foundation in fact. taxed out of the people to enable the Executive, not the officer3 of We are quite accustomed to such denunciations, but their inj115tice the judicial department, to prosecute the people unsparingly. is so flagrant that we have ceased to regard them. If we turn to the history of theso prosecutions we find that they The President is not an impartial judge of elections in the Southern have been directed almost exclusively against those who have voted States. He has an interest in making it appear that it is the right with the democratic party. In this respect the prosecutions have and duty of Congress to set them aside at its will and change their been unsparing, unmerciful, and unjust. But all these denunciations· result according to its pleasure. Considering that enough of the and threats are only intended to hide from the eyes of the people the Northern States voted against him in 1876 to make it necessary that real ground upon which a sectional division of parties has been urged he should secure the electoral votes of three Southern States to ele and nearly accomplished. The President baa deceived no one but vate him to the Presidency, and that the votes of two of those States himself. · were counted for him wilen they were cast against him, his adminis To get at the truth of the situation we must give to the election tration would have made a better appearance in history if he had in November a much more important effect than be attributes to it. omitted any reference to frauds in "counting, returning, and can That was intended to be a business operation in Government and not vassing votes." a mere mawkish expression of sentiment. If what he alleges against the South be true, he should not forget I will therefore deal with the matter in the light in which the real that in his own case the great precedent was set by destroying the leaders of the republican party meant that the people should deal votes ·of white men and of negroes in Louisiana and Florida through with it when they pr~scribed the issues on which they aligned the a false and fraudulent count. He should remember the encourage people in the recent presidential election, and then carried Mie elec ment given to such conduct by the rewards which he has given in tion upon those issues. offices and employments, supported at public expense, to every man The organ of the republican party in Washington already speaks and woman, high or low, who had any participation in that scandalous of the "new nation" as an accomplished fact. This is not an im proceeding. prudent declaration, if we are to give credit to the avowed purposes The grave charges which I have extracted from the message bear of the leaders of that party. The "new nation" and the old Republic upon many millions of people. The President states these charges are distinct and altogether different. The old Republic is dead if the· as matters of fact, and as being within his knowledge. He does not "new nation" is in fact established and is ready to be inaugurated. state these as his opinions or conjectures. He leaves us no opportu The condition of our Government and the principles upon which itr nity of denial, but condemns us on the spot. He adduces no evi is to be conducted are so greatly influenced by popu1ar elections that dence and refers to no witnesses. He is the witness, and his naked we forecast its future course almost exclusively by reference to the is statement is the testimony of our guilt. We do not care to do more sues upon which the great political parties claim the suffrages of the in our defense than to refer to the fact, that is apparent from his people. Considered with reference to this fact, we are to expect th~t statement, that his mind is possessed of a vague and unjust suspicion for four years from the 4th of March next the Federal Government will which his resentment toward a political party has solidified into a be sectional and not national in its policy. This apprehension· may conviction of our guilt. not be realized ; but if not it will only be because the President-elect · It is the alleged denial of the right of suffrage to negroes in the South will refuse w follow the course to which be was pledged by tho stal that excites the President to this l10t temper against us. What must wart leaders of the republican party during the recent presidential posterity think of the sincerity of these professions when he has sent campaign. I sincerely hope he may be aule to disappoint their in his fourth annual message to Congress without b.aving said a word avowed purposes. about the refusal of his party to give the right of suffrage to white The question now forces itself practically upon the attention of the men or to negroes in the District of Columbia 'f They all had the American people whether it is in koo·.-.ing with the genius of our 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 509
Federal Government that the country should be divided into sectional He who had been twice the President of the whole people-the Presi political parties by geographical lines of demarcation, and whether dent of tb€1 United States-came forward and urged the election of a the future of the Government is safe when the exercise of its supreme man as his successor, who should be the representative of a section, powers is demanded by one section for the purpose of exerting an in the office of President, and who, that he might wield the power of absolute and exclusive control over the other section, thereby deny the whole people and keep half of them in subjection, should be the ing to the subject section its right of participation in the Govern P1·e8ident of tke nation of tke United States. ment further than to formally uphold its power and submit to its The demand for a sectional party to control " the nation" was decrees. sharply emphasized by the ex-President, and, with much more of The situation described in this question is the reaJ. situation that graphic force than elegance, was stated by him in the form of a ques was established by the vote for President on the 2d day of last tion, "Whether the dog should wag the tail, or the tail should wag November, so far as the success of a political party can establish any the dog f" Nothing could be more intense than this pithy metaphor. such thing; and it will be carried into practical effect after the 4th It was to the point, and that saves it from all criticism in respect of of March next, unless the President-elect shall reverse the action of the grace with which an ex-President of the United States might use his party. so severe an illustration to give significance and clearness to his state This dangerous situation is without precedent in our history. It ment of a great question. It was not a jest. It may not have been is true that we have had sectional political divisions, and that they designed to insult or to wound. have been followed by such calamities as have seldom been experienced Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, by a civilized people; but never before have the American people South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia, had cast their been divided merely by lines of latitude; when there were no ques votes for him as President; some in one and others in both elections. tions or controversies between them that antagonized one section He could not have been ungrateful to them. Justice to his high char against another in reference to their material interests. And this acter requires m to believe that he meant no offensive disparagement sectional division is not intended to continue only for a day or a of fifteen sovereign States, whose people number more than twenty year. Its lines are laid with a view to the permanent control of the millions, in thus alluding to them. His standard is higher than that. southern section by the northern section of the Union. The shores He desired to enforce his opinion of the necessity of a sectional vote .of the sea are not laid with more of permanence or distinctness than by the people of the North, and he used an illustration that could it is proposed to establish these sectional lines of division between leave no doubt aa to his meaning, and that would fasten his argument ihe States, on the demand of the leaders of the republican party. upon the meanest understandings, and excite the jealousy and malev Th purposes that have caused them to demand of the people that olence of the masses at the North against a people who had fought they should align themselves solidly on the northern side of this sec them in the war between the States. tional line of division are not merely temporary, or adopted in order His success was folly commensurate with his undertaking. His to carry an election by a trick of strategy. They are the sedate pur flattered hearers felt that his whole soul was in the subject when he poses of men who have made up their minds that this Government affectionately alluded ~o them as the dog which should rightfnlly ·shall hereafter be conducted alone by the power of a sectional com wag this tail. The important fact that was so happily prominent in bination of dominant States, the other States being held as the subor his mind was, that the Southern States should hereafter be wagged, .(linate and vassal section. and should have no volition as to when or how they should be dealt In making this statement I am n:ot indulging a sentiment of bitter with as the caudal appendage of the nation. ness or resentment toward political opponents. I am only stating Other great orators and statesmen had formulated this demand for .conclusions that I would gladly avoid if the known facts would j nstify a sectional party to control ''the nation," but none of them presented a different conviction. it in a way so clear and so natural as did the ex-President of the Neither am I overstating the result which must follow the recent United States. triumph of the republican party if the people of the United States What was the ground upon which this unjust and unconstitutional support and assist its leaders to the final accomplishment of their demand was made f What facts existed to justify this demand for designs. a total revolution of the methods of government and of the spirit Two facts, the existence of which no man can justly deny, are quite of American liberty, the spirit of equality between the States and sufficient, without more, to establish the truth as I have stated it. of justice between all the citizens of the United States f There was The first is, that the leaders of the republican party in the recent .no ground for this movement; there were no facts to sustain it. presidential election distinctly and earnestly demanded of that party, It was charged as a crime against the Southern States which justi and of the people of the North of all parties, that they should vote so fied a sectional movement against them that the majority of the peo .as to secure the powers of the Federal Government in the control of ple in those States preferred the success of the national democratic the Northern States, and thereby to overwhelm and extinguish the party over the national republican party, that we indulged freedom power of the Southern States, except so far as they shall be hereafter of opinion and followed our convictions of duty. .,xercised in subordination to the will of the more powerful section. This attitude of the majority in the States that were formerly The other fact is, that there was not then and there is not now any classed as Southern States because they were slave-holding States actual antagonism of interest, either moral, social, religious, or indus was characterized by somebody under the name of" the Solid ~outh ;" trial, between the States or the people of the two sections. and this phrase was made the pretext for attributing to th~ people No question of a sectional character exists between the States, or of the South a united and concerted antagonism toward the people between the people of the North and South, except only that question of the North. No pretext more unjust was ever adopted to cover so raised by the leaders of the republican party, whether the North shall base a misrepresentation. hereafter rule over the South as a subject and vassal section. The PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr.lNGALLS in the chair.) The hour I insist that no man can point out or define the sectional question, of half past one having Rrl'ived, the Senate resumes the consideration or controversy, or issue between the people, upon which this demand of its unfinished business. for a sectional political division is founded. And yet the fact stands Mr. EDMUNDS. I hopetheSenatorfromAlabamawill be allowed forth that a great sectional party has carried a presidential election to finish. mainly, if not solely, on the ground that its candidates are pledged Mr. DAVIS, of West Virginia. I suppose there will be no objection to the doctrine that the States and people of the North must rule the to the Senator from Alabama being allowed to proceed. States and people of the South; that the Government cannot be safe The PRESlD £NG OPFICER. Is there objection f in the hands of a majority composed chiefly of the people of the South, Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. Will that displace the regular although the people of a minority of the Northern States may unite orderf with them in its control; that it can only be safe and worthy of the Mr. EDMUNDS. Oh, no. confidence of the American people when it is in the control of a ma The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection to the Senator jority composed of the people of the North, or in w4ich they are the from Alabama proceeding, the unfinished business not to be displaced f stronger element. The Chair bears none. That is the distinct proposition upon 'which the election was Mr. MORGAN. Mr. President, where was the "solid South" in claimed and won by the republican party of the North. The men in 1876, when the republican party counted in their candidate for Pres that party who do its thinking, as they imagine, and who certainly ident with the assistance of the votes of three of the Southern States f manage its tactics and determine its strategy, and whose power seems Can they now afford to say that the South was solid in 1876 f If it to be absolute in its counsels, have fixed upon this as the great lead was solid then th~y purloined the votes that elected their President. ing proposition that was settled in November last. I do not know In 1878 the resentment of the people was inflamed at the overthrow that any republican will care to deny that such conclusions are the of their sovereign will in the election of a President, and they were direct logical results of that election. Certainly it cannot be denied unified to a greater degree than formerly, but still they were far that the strongest men, and most influential journals of that party, from being solid. In many of the Southern States men were elected demanded, with the most intense earnestness, that the northern peo to Congress and to the State offices in 1~78 who were republicans, ple should unite as one man to secure the control of the Government and greenbackers and independent democrats, who stood in opposi in the hands of the people of the North. tion to the regular nominees of the national democratic party. Up Who, in that party, is greater in his political influence than Gen to and including that election the people of the South were not solid. -eral Grant! It is true that he went down at Chicago beneath the In 1880 it was charged against the South that it would be solid in battle-ax of the "white-plumed Henry of Navarre," (the appropriate voting for General Hancock. That was a wise and true prophecy. sobriquet of the Senator from Maine,) but it was soon found that the It was a prophecy that at any time since 1868 might have been justly battle with the democracy, when it was set, could only be won by predicated on the gratitude of the people of the South toward a Fed· bringing General Grant, wounded and bleeding, on the field. He eral general to whom was given a sword by the ~;epublican party ·saved the republican party from rout, and did it in his own way. with which to smite us, but covering us with the panoply of the • 510 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 11,
Constitution, he used that sword to secure to us protection of life the South by their masters of the North. When their proconsuls and libertv. have ruled ns under these conditions, they have been wellsuatained Wo bad~a. right of free choice between two northern men, and we by the power of the purse and the sword, and also by the petty preferred him who had proven himself to be the truest friend and the tyrannies of debauched judges. Bnt the northern republican leaders most faithful defender of the constitutional rights and liberties of have never been willing to divide with their southern deputies the the people. In that respect the South was solid, and so it will ever st'tpreme powers of government. They are only recognized as .fit in be while it has the right of choice between opposing parties. struments to rule the people of the South in accordance with the We lift our hearts with gratitude to God tbattbeNorth was saved policies that may best promote the interests of the republicans of the from being solid against one who bas deserved so well of his country. North, and to strengthen their political power; and they are severely Against him the republican party used every argument and device and taught the duty of unquestioning obedience to their requirements as remonstrance that shrewd invention could suggest, and the patronage the price of their license to rule over the other people of the South. of this great Government, and the personal influence and endeavors It is the South, and not the "solid South," that the repnblican of every available man connected with the Government, whether leaders of the North have put under the ban of their unrelenting in the Cabinet or in the petty offices of the Departments; and the hostility. If the South were solidly republican; if the positions of reason assigned for this serriecl array against him was that if elected the great parties of the conntry were reversed, so that the strength to the office be woulu be President of the United States, and not of of the republican party was in the South, instead of the North, its the nation ; the President oft be whole people, and not the President ranks would be deserte the Republic to darkness and ruin, and may be ready to hail with eager After the southern white men in the Federal armies bad fought eervility the purple tints of the rising sun of the empire. their own kindred until the cause of the Union was triumphant, there Our hopes of restoration to the enjoyment of constitutional liberty must have been some very powerful incentive to bring them into have been too dear to us to allow us to put them in peril by an effort perfect reconciliation with those they had helped to conquer. And to secure to ourselves the honors, or powers, or riches that might yet, such is the fact. The men of these regiments who yet survive appear to be within our reach, however tempting the allurement. are as much responsible for the fact that the South is solidly demo If we are solid in tli& South in our adhesion to the principles tra cratic as are an equal number of those against :whom they fought. · ditions, and forms of constitutional government, we certainly have What baa thus united in one political organization the men who not exhibited a grasping or selfish lust of power or a sordid affection for more than four years fought each other from battle-field to battle for the Treasury. field, and from door to door Y What has healed their strifes, revived But I press the argument, as one that none of our assailants can their affections, and knit them together in the closest brotherhood f either answer or avoid, that "the so1id South" is not confined to the In the answers to these questions will be found the vindication of the States t.hat adopted ordinances of secession from the Union. Missouri, people of the South, if vindication is needed, for having presumed to Kentucky, Delaware, and Maryland. and West Virginia-the child of exercise the right of choosing between the republican and demo the civil "iar, born in the very travail of the great struggle between cratic parties as the guardians of their property, their liberties, and the States, and nurtured in its cradle by the Federal Army-were not their lives. seceding States. They adhered to the Union and took up arms under The history of the recent avents which have -drawn the southern itsftag and fought for it when every blow they struck for the Federal people inte political affiliation with the national democratic party Government fell upon a kinsman's heart. Here the argument that since the war, is a long and bitter chapter in the book of American the solidarity of the South is the result of the old secession feeling a.nnals. I can only allude briefly to some of the most prominent facts. thoroughly breaks down. There isnothing of it left. The people of There is, howeve~, a necessary preface to this history, of which I must the States I hav:e named fought against their kindred, father against make some ment1on. son and brother against brother. As is well remarked by a brilliant southern authoress, "the demo When States like New Jersey and California and Nevada are cratic party had its origin in the events that led to the war of the classed as Southern States because they are democratic States, the Revolution in 1776, while the republican party originated in those charge that the democratic party is a southern sectional party is too that led to the civil war of 1861." absurd to demand the least consideration. The States that seceded were Contemporaneously with the adoption of the Federal Constitution not entirely sectional even during the war, and have never been sec the democratic party-then called the republican party, (in contra tional since the war. distinction to those who demanded a stropg central government) The following list of troops that were supplied to the Federal armies had planted, broad and deep, the foundations of its creed and policy by the Southern States during the late civil war tells a story that in a demand for the adoption of the first ten amendments to the Con wholly refntes the idea that the people of the South were solid as a stitution. They were submitted to the Stat.es within two years from sectional political party, even when their States were invaded and the ratification of the original Constitution. overrun by the armies of the North. In the list I include all the The historian and statesman will not omit to pause at this point in States, that H may be seen how many men were furnished by the our history and weigh the important fact that a body of organic States that were said to compose " the solid South" in the political law, which was considered by its authors as being suffi.cien t to secure,. parlance of the recent pr~sidential election : . for all coming time, the essential rights of the States and the liber ties of the people, should have been amended within so short a time Statement of number of ·men called for by t11e Pre.sident of the United by the addition of ten articles, each of which contained vital princi States, ~·c. ples of government. These principles were not new to the people of the colonies, or to their fathers· in England, but they were not ·~r"' placed in the-Constitution. They were left to rest upon inference, Aggregate. ~~ or common right and common consent. This was not enough to sat ~I» isfy the people. They felt that the struggles of the revolution were ... ~ Cl) endured by the people, and for the people, to secure a government of States and Territ-ories. ,:. .s~.c No further comment is needed to prove that the people of Arkansas 1880) cost, including amounts expended in permanent improvements, had no other hope of relief than such as the 'democratic party could $2,146,712.03. From this amount deduct $324,374.50, the amount ex :afford them against the despoilers of that great State. When we con- pended in the permanent improvement under democratic rule, and it trast with the facts and figures stated in the joint resolutions just leaves $1,822,337.53. The difference, then, in cost of the government read the expenditures of the State government of Arkansas for the for four years under republican rule is $1,250,914.75 in favor of dam years 1874tol880, inclusive, the comparison will show that the resto- ocratic rule and democratic economy. ration of democratic rule in that State has been the only means that At the Close of the war Texas had no public debt. At the close -could save the people from ruin, or could give to their just creditors of republican misrule in that State it had an aacertained debt of any hope of the payment of their debts. The average ordinary cur- $3,614,568, and other large items of floating debt are still coming to rent expense of the State government for each of the six years of light. -carpet-bag rule was $1,026,551.07, while under democratic rule since At the close of the war Mississippi owed $812,251.82 to theChicka.- 1874 to 1&30, inclusive, the average annual expenditures for the same saw school fnnd, a trust fnnd on which the State is liable for the purposes have been only $251,803.59. interest. In TennesRee, at the close of the war, the State debt was $32,562,- When the democrats were placed in charge of the State government .323.58. In 1870, when Tennessee was restored to democratic rule, the in 1876 the State debt waa $3,341,162.89. The gross expenditures of State debt was $41,000,000. The State expenses for the years 1867-'68- the State government for each year since 1869 are as follows: '69, under republican role, averaged $900,000 per annum, and for the 1870 $ years 1877 -'78-'79, under democratic rule, they averaged $350,000 per 1 • · · • ·---• · · • ·-• · ·----· · ·---· -·-• · ·---- ·--·-· -·-- 1, 061, 249 90 annum 1871 .•.•••••...••••••.••..•••• ·-···----~ •.•. ••.• .... 1, 729,046 34. The debt of North Carolina at the close of the war was, in round 1872····-· -----· ··-··o ------·----- o•···· o··--· o•·-·· 1,596,8~ 64 numbers, $11,000,000. In September, 1870, when the State was re- 1873 ·---- 0 ··--:-o -----· o •••• o o··--- ··---· ·----· ·----· 1,450,~32 80 18740 0 0 0 stored to democratic rule, the debt had increased to $29,900,000. This -~-- -• --· o• ---· ·---- o.---· ------• 1, 319, 281 60 does not include about $9,000,000 of bonds that were declared nncon- 1875 -- •• • ·-- ·• · • · · ·- 0--· •• • --· ·----- 0- 1, 430, 192 82 1876 0 00 o-- -- · ·-- --· ·- stitutional. The whole increase of obligations aaainst0 the State under · • • • • • ·---- -·---- o• o-- ·- --- ·----o·---- • ·----o 518,709 03 0 0 the republican regirne was $26,000,000. 1877------.----· •• - ---.----. -----. ·---- •• ----- ~97, 018 86 Therepnblican Legislature of 1868-'69 cost, in mileage and per 1878··-···o·······------····o·------t07,?~ 46 1879 0 0 0 -diem, $48,668.55 more than the two democratic Legislatures of 1870-'71 ·--- -·-·-- · ·--• · o ·- • • • • ·--·- ·---- • - • ·--- o • • ·- 553, 326 81 and 1872-'73 together. In this State the cost of republican government was annually nearly The aggregate cost of the republican convention of 1868 and the double the cost under democratic government. Florida owed a debt Legislature of 1868-'69-'70,in mileage and per diem, was 517,621.75. of $370,617 at the close of the war, and in 1877, when the State went The five democratic Legislatures, from 1870 to 1880, inclusive, em- into the control of the democratic party, the bonded debt wa-s in bracing ten years, together with the convention of 1875, cost, in mile- creased by the sum .of $919,796.65. This debt represents money bor age and per diem,$671,129.63, which is only$153,507.88 more than the rowed to carry on the State government, and in addition to this the -one republican convention and Legislature. The republican Legis- receipts into the treasury from taxation from 1868 to 1876, inclusive, lature cost, in mileage and per diem, as stated, $430,958.60. The were $3,032,359.83. The annual average expenses of the State gov average cost of the five democratic Legislatures, in mileage and per ernment during democratic rule were less by $160,840 than they were diem, was $128,928.41, or $302,030.19 less than the one republican under republican role. These burdens, which were fully doubled in J ... egislature. debts of municipal governments in the counties, were borne by prop- The expenses of the fiscal year 1671, which was the fust year after erty assessed at $30,817,875. the democrats got control of the ;Legislature, were $564,9'29.26 less The bonded debt of Louisiana priortoJan nary 1, 1861, was$3,848,000. than the year immediately preceding. The bonded debt issued since the war and up to 1871, was $18,583,000. Four years of republican TOle (1869, 1870, 1871, and 1872) cost The expenditures of the State government from 1868 to and includ .$3,073,252.28. Four years of democratic rule (1877, 1878, 1879, and ing the fust quarter of 1879, are shown by the following table: Recapitulation. ...0 c:& ,;, ~ ~ ~ ~=:~"' 0 ~ 1868 ·····-··· $8-1,616 60 $549,609 79 $196,162 78 $260,155 47 i$1, 745, 181 10 $350,000 00 l$122, 468 20 $809,658 22 $234, 775 88 $125,342 34 $4, 476, 990 38 1869 ······-· · 85,012 73 433,524 18 267,519 59 2, 000 00 127,472 55 ...... 53,433 91 2, 396, 269 13 423,018 41 429,345 48 4, 217, 595 98 1870 ·-····-· . 121,798 20 699,797 28 261,100 00 255,500 00 1, 865, 987 48 555,275 00 170 00 1, 839, 583 30 1, 187, 259 47 314, t6a 86 7, 050, 636 59 1871 •••...•.. 171,957 30 644, 081 85 339,888 44 395,300 00 896,209 71 5, 555 00 ...... 3, 326, 832 67 1, 546, 425 67 251,866 94 7, 578, 147 58 1872 ··-····· · 156,009 67 273,938 40 289,972 66 2"23, 750 00 447,497 92 1, 660 00 ...... 1, 329,149 45 1, 494, 698 88 154,752 00 4, 371, 428 98 1873 .. ···-· · · 15.5, 034 30 409,438 56 308,814 56 226,250 00 549,200 ()() 1, 390 00 37,325 85 888,234 25 966, 509 10 154,716 30 3, 696, 912 92 1874 .....•... 168, 988 69 387,775 67 276,207 58 187,500 00 434,200 00 985 00 ...... 811,972 56 644,160 83 156,310 90 3, 068, 101 23 1875 ...... •.. 138,465 00 287,007 04 2'22, 825 58 94,000 00 569,800 00 26,980 00 ...... 967,210 87 109,351 48 70,067 37 3, 185, 707 34 1876 oo•••• • • 66,975 06 217,745 78 249,010 53 114,500 00 ::135, 2R3 36 ...... 928,741 21 1, OlS, 345 00 130,721 95 3, 098, 322 89 1877 •••.•.•. . 61, 615 74 289,603 77 274, !llO 34 139,357 76 400,538 76 ...... 433,947 27 827,375 50 23, 185 11 2, 450, 534 25 1878 ··-··· ~ · · 82,791 94 202,059 89 272, 759 11 141,550 08 428,070 69 ...... 568,357 35 654,762 96 54,979 30 2, 405, 331 32 1879* . ...•••. 18,137 47 47,312 50 137,716 17 51,255 27 108,933 67 ...... 201,676 75 202,380 35 1,613 M 769,025 63 ---- 1, 310, 402 70 4, 441, 874 71 3, 096, 887 34 2, 091, 118 58 7, 948,375 24 941,845 00 213,417 96 14, 501, 683 03 9, 956, 063 53 1, 867' 067 05 46, 368, 735 14 *First quarter. The amount of money received by the State on $12,141,240 of the the following tables taken from auditors' reports showing the annual bonds issued since the war was $6,893,307.31. In this single item the receipts and disbursements from 1866-'67 to 1879-'80: State lost about twice the amount of the entire State debt existing 1866-'67: when the war commenced, and to this extravagant use of the credit of Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1866 .•••• 0...... $970, 609 86 the State is to be added an increase of expenses of the State govern Disbursements ...••••• o...... ooo••·····o·••o ...... 8'20, 033 94 ment under nine years of republican rule of more than $2,000,000 an Balance in treasury September 30, 1867 ...•.. . .•...•• 0.... 0~· 0 150, 575 92 nually over its expenses under democratic rule. The total debt of the State of Alabama in November, 1865, was $3,893,770.13. This included 1867-'68: arrearages of interest due on bonds. Alabama had gold shipped to Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1867 ...... 00 0..... 1, 720, 158 31 England t hrough the blockade, and had kept the interest on her debt Disbursements ··········--··o-·o····o··· •oo•••·o•oooo•······oo•···· 1, 504,371 24 due there paid up, during the entire period of the war. Balance in treasury September 30, 1868. 0...... 0... . . •. •• 215, 787 07 In 1874, when the democrats came into power, the direct debt of the State bad increased to $11,677,470, and the indorsement obligations 1868-'69: amounted to $1R,386,098. In addition-to this $5,103,000 of obligations Receipts, including cash September 30, 1868 ••••••••••• o. o...... o... 1, 5~2. 098 45 held by railways had been su.rrendered in lieu of an issue of direct Disbursements. 0 •••••• ·••ooo ...... o...... o...... ··o··· 1, 394,960 30 bonds for 1,192,000-showing a total incr'ea.se of apparent debts and Balancein treasury September30, 1869 ...... oooo·····-~- - 127,138 15 obligations of $31 ,272,797.13 iu about nine years. This charge was laid upon a people who in 1860 owned taxable property to the value 1869-'70: of $725,000,000, which was reduced in 1874 to barely $160,000,000. Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1869 ••••.••••• oo••·· •••••••• 1, 410,724 67 Tbe comparative cost of conducting the State government under Disbursements ...... o.... o...... o...... o·•••oo·----······· 1,366,398 i5 republican and democratic administrations will be readily seen from Balance in treasury September 30, 1870 ...... oo•··· ...... - . 44,325 82 XI-33 514 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 11, 1870-'71: content themselves with an addition of almost nine millions to the Xooeipts, including cash, September 30, 1870 .••••••••..••..••.••.••• f1, 422,494 67 bonded debt of the State. Disbursements...... 1,640,116 99 They were compelled to rely upon the "beak and claw" of th& Deficit (outstanding warrants) September30,1a71. .•.•..•.•.•• 217,622 32 tax-collector to rob moneyout of the people, but they took care that the least possible portion of it should be diverted from the pockets 1871-'72: of the legislators and executive officers and expended for public pur ~~J!!;;~ilt~:::::: ::: ~::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: i: i~g: g~~ ~~ poses. They intercepted the school fonds and directed them in to capi tal stock for establishing drinking-saloons and brothels; and the bread Deficit (outstanding warrants) September 30, 1872 • • • . . • • . . • • . 197,507 81 of charity provided for the poor was snatched from their hands to be converted into jewels and furbelows to deck the persons of the most 1872-'73: • depraved people. Figures give no analysis of crimes like these. ~:J~~~~~: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ~: ~~: gg : They are useless to furnish the statistics of a sea of corruptionii where there was nothing honest to be compared with what was a Deficit September 30, 1873, (outstanding·warrants) .•• •• • ••• • • • 353, 680 48 dishonest. 1873-'74: The increase of county and other municipal indebtedness wa& Receipts .....••••••..••.•••..•••••.••..••.•••••••.•••..••••••••..... 1,870,757 28 almost if not quite equal to the increa-se of the State debts through Disbursements, (including deficit)...... • • • . . • • . . • • . . • • . • • • • . . 1, 530, 90~ out the Sout.h. Taking them together they added more than three Balance in treasury September 30, 187 4 • • • • • • . . • . . • • . • • • . • • • . 339, 849 82 hundred million dollars to the burdens of a people whose tax-paying capacity had shrunk to one-fourth of what it was in 1860. This enor 1874-'75: mous weight of debt was followed by nothing of actual value to the Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1874...... ••• •• •••• •• . •• ••• 1, 068, 220 04 country, which was made almost a desert by the leeching of mer- Disbursements •••...... ••.•••••••.•••.•••••••.•••••••••••••••••••. . 1,061,349 02 cenary politicians. . Balance in treasury September 30, 1875 ••••.•••.•.••.• - .••••• - 6, 871 02 This was the condition of the Southern States when they and the other States (classed with them in our political nomenclature as South 1875-'76: ern States) that felt aggrieved at these wrongs and endangered by Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1875...... ••..••••••••••. 9:l5, 040 32 Disbursements . • • . . • • . • • . • • • • . • • • • . • • • . . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • . • • . • • • • 880, 073 00 such usurpations fastened their hopes of a restored country upon the possibility of again placing it onder the security of a restored Con Balance in treasury September 30, 1876 ••••••.•••••••••• - ... ~ . 54,967 32 stitution. This was and is their trne bond of union-the real tie that unites them-and the responsibility for their solidity rests with the 1876-'77: Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1876...... •.•...••••.... 836,767 96 party tha-t has forced this duty upon the friends of constitutional Disbursements...... 682, 812 49 liberty. As well may we expect the Christian when" walking in the valley of the shadow of death" to t.hrow away the staff that supports Balance in treasury September30, 1877 .•••••••.••••.•...••••• 153,955 47 him and discard the sacred book that comforts him, to shut his eyes to the hope of deliverance and to reject the sympathies of the friend 1877-'78: Receipts, inc1uding cash, September 30, 1817... ••• •••••• ••••••••. ••. 872,183 83 who stays lovingly by his side, as to expect the people of the South, Disbursements...... 648,097 23 in their extremity, to abandon the shelter of the Constitution and to renounce and reject all affiliation with those faithful and true men Balance in treasury September 30, 1878 . • • . . • • • . • . . . . • . . • . • . . . . 224, 086 60 who have not" passed by on the other side," but have poured oil and wine into their wounds. 1878-'79: Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1878..... ••...... •...... 911,116 35 Every consideration that could influence honest men to adhere to life Disbursements ..•...•.•.••••.....•••••••••.•..••..•.•..•.•.•.••••• - 683,003 67 long convictions bears upon our course in this matter, and compels us to place our reliance for safety upon the Constitution of the country, Balance.in treasury September 30, 1879 ••••••••••••. ••.. •••••• 228,052 68 and to trust the men who revere and obey it rather than rely upon 1879-'80: the promises or adulations of those who confess that they have ruled Receipts, including cash, September 30, 1879. ••••••••• •••••••••••••• 909,227 50 the country by a law higher than the Constitution and outside of Disbursements...... 59-t, 297 66 and beyond the powers conferred upon them by its provisions. We do not know when the republican party will again resort to these vio Balance in treasury September 30, 1886 ••••...... ••.•••••• •••. 314,929 84 lent departures from constitutional government. We only look for The republican administrations had absorbed $7,783,700 of borrowed ward with apprehension to that hour. We will keep our course in money, and had paid no interest on the real public debt, leaving still this business, and will trust to the power of truth and j ostice to com a deficit in the treasury on the account of aJ.most every year. The mend our conduct to the God of nations. average annual taxation was, under republican rule, $1,512,o'22, when If to be thns united and solid is a crime, how shall it be expiated f no interest was paid on the public debt, while the average annual Shall this be done by our becoming united and "solid" with the re taxation under democratic administration has been $922,092. And publican party f Or shall some of us go over and some remain where this paid all State expenses and the interest on the public debt, and we aref These questions put to shame the men who decry us for being left a. balance in the treasury of $314,92'2.84, with no unpaid warrants solid as democrats, when their demand for our disintegration would, outstanding, to be applied to necessary public improvements. This if complied with, only make us solid as republicans, or else, dividing excess in a~nual taxation of $590,730, and the added sum of money us, would leave us at the mercy of a party united l)n a race issue. It borrowed by the republicans on the credit of the State and the in is only because we are democrats that they complain of us, and not crease of debt from accumulations of interest not paid by them, made because we are of one mind, or, as they say, solid. In what way the annual cost of government more than two and one-half times as shall we disintegrate, and whither shall our dust be scattered 7 T() great as the cost of democratic government. whom and to what extent shall we commit onr destiny when we have I have not succeeded in getting from South Carolina and Georgia abdicated the right of free will and free judgment in the control of the statistics· that the governors of other Southern States have kindly our own affairs, and have extinguished the lights of reason and ex furnished me. I have a compilation of the debt of Georgia. and of perience that have hitherto been our guides f How is the South to South Carolina. which, though onofficial, is believed to be substantially become less solid than it is for the principles of the democratic party f correct. Who shall be the first to abandon the ground that his conscience re In 1865 the direct debt of Georgia was $5,706,500. In 1872 this debt quires him to hold f had been increased to $8,618,750. In 1865 Georgia owed no indorse The following of that man would be small indeed who wonldopenly ment debt, bot in 1872 obligations had been created against it amount- confess the motives that would lead him to abuse his conscience in ing to more than thirty million dollars. ' order to improve his condition or to avoid a manly struggle for the Sooth Carolina was marked for destruction, and the process of de rights of his people. The people will continue to think and act for vastation excited less of sympathy in the hearts of the destroyers than themselves; and the strongest man in all the South could not induce the fires of Smithfield or the racks and screws of the Inquisition. one thousand men to follow him into the republican party for the The vultures found" enough of good stealing" to gorge them with purpose of proving that the 13outh will ever be tolerant of the abus& their prey, but the witnessing world only trusted them to destroy of the Constitution for the sake of ease, or prosperity, or the emolu what wealth had been a-ccumulated, and would risk nothing upon ments of office, or to gratify the lust of power. their capacity to bind the future earnings of the people. They were To a man of true principles, who has a firm confidence in the jus confessedly too depraved to be entitled to credit on any reasonable tice of his course of conduct, defeat is only a disappointment; a post terms, and so they could not find a market for their pledges of " the ponement of his hopes. It is not destruction, and it never breeds faith and credit of the State." Their bonds and mortgages attempted despair. to be foisted upon the property of the people of South Carolina were It sometimes happens that a present defeat is of more value than so tainted with the crimes of the pretended legislators that those a victory. A victory won too soon often leads to a final and irre whose resentments upheld the saturnalia. of robbery and fraud which trievable loss; while defeat is a blessing to a cause that needs most rioted in the State held their noses when the bonds were offered them triumph in the end when it ripens us for the hour of final success. for sale. They were too well assured of a reactionary feeling among In at least one important matter in the recent election the peopl& the pe9ple of the United States to be found in possession of any of of the United States ba.ve truly " plucked the flower of safety from these ba-dges of fraud and crime when reason and justice should be the nettle, danger." We can now better afford to wait the return of the rMtored to their rightful sway. The bonds did not largely sell, and people to democratic constructions of the Constitution and methods the result was that the republiian rulers of South Carolina had to ~f government since the people have again, and finally, I hope, pro- 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 515 n~unced in favor of the sanctity of their traditional policy, that two arrogant demands of centralized power" that thrift may follow fawn presidential terms shall be the limit of any man's ambition for the ing ; " let those who fear to espouse the right for its own sake invite supreme executive power. the hastening steps of imperial power in its march against the heart I anticipate no result from the administration of the President-elect of the Republic. They can never claim to share in the honorable which could be compared in its evil effects upon the country with renown of those men who in leaving the Senate will leave to the that which would certainly have befallen us bad not the strength and country a ~lotions record of duty well performed, of faithful alle energy of the democratic party compelled the republican party at giance to r1ght and justice, and of courage equal to the highest de Chicago to· stand by this time-honored barrier to imperialism. mands of constitutional liberty and to the defense of the poorest It is easy to discern that the President-elect will have no ordinary and humblest man in all our wide borders. task if he undertakes to preside with impartiality in the high office Mr. President, we ought to unite now in forcing upon the attention to which be is called. It will be a terrible rebuff to the men who of this country the doctrine of the right of local self-government in elaim to have elected him on their demand for a sectional President favor of the negroes in the District of Columbia. While that doc to rule the South as a subject country, if be should find that he is trine was never put in the Constitution of the United States with my compelled by his convictions of dntyto deny to them the privilege of personal assent, it has received the sanction of my oath as a Senator, succeeding him in power over a pathway again to be strewn with the and I am bound to uphold it even against the republican party. Let wreck of States dismantled and a people destroyed. the republicans come forward now and show this country that they Whether the President-elect will follow the example of the people are what they pretend to be, men who are devoted to the idea of the in their efforts to unify the country in feeling and interests, or will equality of citizenship among all classes in this country without re yield to ambitions politicians in their demand that the country shall spect to race, color, or previous condition of servitude. be sectionalized so as to secure to them the power of the stronger sec The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair will now lay before the tion, is a question of the future. Senate the unfinished business of yesterday. The people, and especially the commercial men of t.he North and the South, know each other better now than at any time in the past. PRINTING OF SURVEYS. Their business relations o.re more intimate and satisfactory than Mr. BROWN. Before that is done, I desire, without interfering they have ever been. There are few merchants or manufacturers with the regular order, to ask leave, by unanimous consent, to intro at the North who have not their traveling agents in the South. duce a resolution instructing the Public Printer-to furnish the Sen Through these agents they are constantly acquiring definite informa ate copies of certain printed surveys that are necessary for the use of tion about everything and everybody in the South. Their trade the Senate. with us continues to increase. This one fa{)t demonstrates the false The PRESIDING OFFICER. The resolution will be read, in the hood of the assertions that newspapers and politicians have dinned absence of objecti•m. into the ears of the world, that the southern people have resorted to Mr. BROWN. I ask for the consideration of it,.and I think there crime and force to supply the want of numbers in their efforts to will be no debate about it. govern the States of the South. Such prosperity as has doubled our The resolution was read, as follows: productions in ten years and gained the confidence of commercial BesoltJeil, That the Public Printer be, and he is hereby, directed to furnish to the oircles everywhere is not the result of crime or misgovernment, but Senate, at the earlieet practicable momen~ copies of the surveys furnished by the Chief of Engineers of the Altamaha, the Ocmulgee, the Ooonee, the Canoochee, of honest industry, wise and economical government, and assiduous and the Savannah Rivers, between Savannah and Augusta, and also the survey. of attention to the material improvement of the country. Romney Marsh, near Doboy, and the mouth of Jekyl Creek, as the printed cop1es Democratic government in the Sonth has enabled us to accom of such surveys are necessary for the use of the Senate. plish these results, and has thus commended itself to our confidence. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection to the present con I will not attempt longer to occupy the attention of the Senate in sideration of the resolution f the examination of the causes that have led the people of the South Mr. COCKRELL. I must object to it unless there is an addition ern States to prefer democratic to republican rule in their local affairs made to it which will include all other surveys made. It is not right and in the Government of the United States. Whatever may be that the Public Printer should take up the whole time in printing thought of the wisdom of our course, it has not been dictated by a these special reports when surveys have been made in Missouri and spirit of hatred or resentment toward the northern people. We elsewhere that ought to be furnished to the Senate. claim, and we believe justly, that in all our history the southern Mr. BROWN. The others may be in. people in time of peace have never attempted an act of aggression Mr. COCKRELL. I know they are not in. I move as an amend upon the people of the North or any interference with their local ment to add" and all other reports of surveys." affairs. Mr. WHYTE. I should like to suggest to the Senator from Georgia. On many occasions, when opportunity of displaying resentment was that the resolution had better go to the Committee on Printiag. afi'orded by the outbreak of masses of tlangerons men in the North There may be some reason why this work should not precede other and by social disturbances that constantly threatened the peace of important work now in the hands of the Public Printer. northern communities, almost every man in the South has been found Mr. BROWN. I be-g the Sena.t,or not to urge the reference, for the in sympathy with the conservative part of those people and ready to reason that if we do not get these reports of surveys so that we can lend assistance to the support of law and order. lay them before the Committee on Commerce before it makes up its When the ccruntry was in a state of intense anxiety four years ago bill on rivers and harbors, it will refuse to consider appropriations over the succession to the Presidency, to the quiet and conservative for any rivers and harbors where this estimate has not been made by course of the Sonthit was chiefly owing that we passed through the the Engineer Department. I have been twice to the Chief of Engi dangerous strait without the shedding of blood. No Southern State neers, and he informs me that these reports have long since been deliv has ever refused its full support to the Government, in men and money, ered over, and are in the hands of the Public Printer. I suppose they in any war with a foreign power; and the courage and fidelity of its are simply lying by while some other printing is being done. They soldiery is a part of the glory of our history. are very important, and if the resolution is referred te the Committee I allude to these matters only to justify the statement that neither on Printing the matter may be delayed and we not get the reports in in its policy nor in the sentiments of the people is the South arrayed time to accomplish the object we have in view. against the Government or against the people of the North. It is Mr. WHYTE. I will say to the Senator from Georgia that there solid" for the Constitution and the Union and the enforcement of the will be no delay. The Committee on Printing has its work entirely laws." The men who in former years assembled under the banners up. The resolution can be reported to-morrow if there is good reason that bore this motto are to-day among the truest, most intrepid, and why the matter should be urged. influential of the millions who are now united as democrats. I honor Mr. BROWN. With that understanding I have no objection. them for their fidelity to their principles~ The PRESIDING OFFICER. The resolution will be referred to There is another respect in which we are solid in the South. We the Committee on Printing. are of one mind and heart in the indulgence of the deepest sense of gratitude to the democrats of the North for their confidence and sym BEN. HOLLADAY. pathy when we were weak and oppressed. We know that this sen The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the considera sibility to the suffering of our people has involved many of them in tion of the bill (S. No. 231) for the relief of Ben. Holladay, the pe•d• the loss of great opportunities to serve the country in eminent places, ing question being on the amendment proposed by Mr. KERNAN, to and has caused them even suffering and disparagement. We would strike out all after the enacting clause and insert a substitute. more than deserve all that we have had to suffer if we could now The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from New Jersey [Mr. turn coldly away from them and censure their motives by asking McPHERSON] is entitled to the floor. them to disband their organization as a dishonored thing, and to dis Mr. McPHERSON. ~Ir. President, wheri I took the floor last even tribute themselves among other political parties~ new or old, in ing I intended to discuss somewhat at length the relation which tae search of more favorable opportunities to regain power or position. testimony here presented bears to this case, but as I read the very altle I can never cease to rem em her with gratitude, affection, and pride and exhaustive speech of the Senator from Delaware, [Mr. BAYARD,] the labors and sacrifices of the dempcrats of the Senate from the which I had not the pleasure of listening to yesterday, it has ren Northern States in behalf of the people of the South since the close dered that course by me entirely unnecessary. Therefore I shall de of the civil war. They can never be forgotten. The remotest pos tain the Senate but a. very few moments. terity will fully understand the motives of their labors, their self-de Yesterday afternoon during the discussion of the question by the nial in our service, and the great ability with which they defended honorable Senator from Kentucky, [Mr. WILLIAMs,) I asked him tiLe a helpless people against organized injustice and oppression. Let question whether or not in the testimony it appeared that the tlten those who will now '' bend the pregnant hinges of the knee" to the President of the United States, Mr. Lincoln, had agreed with tke 516 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 11, contractor that he should receive not only the support of the Gov great strait with the country to-day; at this time we have very few, if any, troOJ?S to spare. But I want you to understand, as the agent of Mr. Holladay, that this ernment bnt reimbnrsement for his losses. I was referred to the tes line must, under no consideration, be stopped." timony of the petitioner; I was referred also, I think by the honor able Senator from Indiana, [Mr. VooRHEES,] not now in his seat, to What did Mr. Lincoln do f He gave him a letter to General Cur the testimony of General Craig. Upon examining that testimony I tis and he instructed General Curtis to take steps to furnish the line find it nowhere stated in the testimony of General Craig that Mr. with troops, to see that it was thoroughly and fnJly protected, as it Lincoln had agreed to recompense Mr. Holladay for losses snstained was of the most vital importance to the welfare of the country. He by reason of Indian depredations or otherwise. I do find, however, in says: I took his letter and presented it to General Curtis. General Curtis did every a letter which pnrports to have been addressed by General Craig to thing that was in his power to protect us, and the line was restocked, and we con his superior officer, General J. G. Blunt, the following words: tinned to run it. , G&~RA.L:- In other words, after the measnre of protection which Mr. Lincoln This appears to have been written Jn]y 10, 1862- had authorized General Curtis to afford, they continued to run the I am in receipt to-day of a dispatch informing me that the Postmaster-General line, the measure of protection being afforded. I understand that has ordered the Overland Mail Company to abandon the North Platte and Sweet there is nothing on the part of the promise of Mr. Lincoln to either water portion and remove their stages and stock to the route south of this, running Mr. Holladay or his agent, so far as it appears from any testimony through Bridger's Pass. other than the testimony of Mr. Holladay himself, that any promise I have no doubt General Cra~ refers to the letter of the Postmaster of indemnification was given, but simply a promise of protection, and General which the honorable Senator from Wisconsin [Mr. C.AYERON] the protection was afforded. who makes this report introduced yesterday as testimony. This ap Mr. President, this case, as I understand it, is a very plain one. Mr. pears to bear date of the 7th day of July, 1862, and only three days Holladay agreed to transport the mails. There is no provision of his preceding the letter to which General Craig refers. Inasmuch as the contract exonerating him from carrying the mails, nor is he entitled letter1 or order, as it is called, of the Postmaster-General has been to any claim upon the Government by reason of any act of the coun submitted to the Senate as testimony in this case, I will take the privi try's enemy. If he found it impossible to transport the mails by rea lege of reading it : son of Inman hostilities, he had the right to appeal to the equity of Overland Mail Company. the Government, and the Government would have released him from Ordered: · the obligation of a contract which he conld not perform by reason of What is the order f the enemy. Mr. Holladay did appeal to the Goverqment, saying that Permit change of route- there were depredations npon his mail-ronte by Indians, and the mil Not" order." The contractor is not ordered to change; he is allowed itary power of the Government advised him to change his route. He to "permit change of route"- did change his route and did receive the protection which the Gov so as to leave present road and keep along the South Platte and Cherokee Trail ernment promised. via Bridger's Pass, and intersect present route at Fort Bridger, shortening the dis Now Mr. Holladay comes to the Senate and demands in addition to tance one hundred miles, provided the offices on the present route omitted by the the sum of $359,739 as compensation for depredations by Indians the change be supplied with the mails once a week. additional sum of $50,000, which he claims to be an amount of money Here is not an order of the Postmaster-General to remove the peti expended by him in removing his stations from the old to the new , tioner from the old route to the new one, but he is permittecl to make route-from an old route where without conditions he had agreed to the change. transport the United States mails to a new route over which the Gov Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. Will the Senator allow me a mo ernment promised him protection. It was clearly to the advantage ment f It is not claimed by any one that the change of route made of Mr. Holladay to make this change. To continue upon the whole in 1862 was made pursuant to any military order. It is claimed, bow route would have subjected his buildings and his stock to certain ever, that the Indian disturbances on the north route were so great captnre. To go upon the new route would be to afford him such pro that the ronte could not be maintained, and consequently it became tection as the Government could give him. Considering the vast necessary for that reason to change it. The north route was exposed amount of money which he had voluntarily and, as I claim, in the to Indian incursions at any time; the so nth route was farther re performance of his contract, needlessly exposed to the perils of cap moved from those hostile Indians; and for that reason it was thought ture, considering as I say this vast amount of property consisting of advisable to make the change. It is only claimed that the Post-Office stores that were intended to be sold to the ranchmen and to the trains Department authorized or at least consented to the change upon the passing over the line, in addition to vast appliances needed for hotel conditions stated in the order just read by the Senator from New accommodations for the travelers over the plains, in addition to the Jersey. seventeen hundred and fifty horses and mnJes and one hundred and Mr. McPHERSON. I fully agree with the honorable Senator in ten coaches, nsed mainly for the same purpose, it seems to me to have that view of the case, that the Post-Office Department permitted and refused that protection would have been madness. The Government that the military authorities advised the change for the reason stated, by that issued to Mr. Holladay a policy of insurance, and the only but it appears here-and I ask the attention of t.he Senate especially premium on insnrance that Mr. Holladay was to pay was the simple to this point-that by the change of route it shortened the distance cost of transferring his stations from one route to the other. The one hundred miles over the ronte then employed by the petitioner in protection wa.s given him. Now, after he has received not only the the transportation of the mails. I wish to call attention to another protection for the stock needed for carrying the mail but the protec very important phase of this question, that while the order advised tion for all the property, amounting, as I have somewhere heard it or permitted a change of route it did not relieve Mr. Holladay from stated, to nearly two million dollars, Mr. Holladay comes back here the performance of his contract, a portion of his contract at least, and demands that the Government should pay him back the premium, upon the old route, becanse it required him to transport the mails and that, too, a sum to be fixed by Mr. Holladay's own employes and over the old route or to the intermediate offices at least once a week. without permitting the Government to have a single word to say With respect to the testimony of General Craig I will go further. He about it, without permitting the Government to bring competent tes says in the same communication to General Blunt: timony to prove the nature of the claim. My instructions require me to protect the Overland Mail alone, the telegraph I remember, in 1878, when the bill was under discussion by the Sen line and emigration not being mentioned. ate, the honorable Senator from Kansas, [Mr. PLUMB,] who is not Showing that an extraordinary amount of protection was given to now in his seat, on that occasion thns characterized this bill. With the petitioner, Mr. Holladay, in the transportation of the mails which the permission of the Senate and without sending it to the Secre was denied to the tele~aph company and to the different trains pass tary's desk to have it read, as I only wish to read detached portions ing over that ronte. What fnrther does he say f of the speech, I will read it 'from my own place. First: I am satisfied tbo.t the mail company and the Government would both be bene But coming back to this question of the destruction of property on lliis overland fited bv the change of route at a proper time, and so wrote the Postmaster-General i"oute, there was not during the entire war a single troop from Kansas on the route some weeks since. until I took my own regiment out there in the spring of 1865, anti as long as this matter has been mentioned I may so.y further that while on the route, and while I am also cited by I think the honorable Senator from Kentucky under direction to see that that mail was carried at all hazards, I did carry it on to the testimony of George K. Otis. On examination of the testimony nearly three hundred miles of the route of M.r. Holladay for nearly two months, of Mr. Otis it appears-! will read his own language: during which time he bad not a teamster or o. mule of his own on that part of the line-carried it with Government mules and ~vernment horses, with Government I was not present at the interview- private soldiers as drivers. Now, I submit that if this man is to be paid, the Gov Speaking of the interview between President Lincoln and Mr. Hol ernment is entitled at least to a recoupment for the full amount of that service so laday- r endered. It was a part of it which I did not care to &ay anything about. More than all that, it was a part of the unwritten history, and it was a part of the his but Mr. Holladay returnetl and informed me he had a very·pleasant interview with tory in the mouths of all men along that route, that every time a coach was taken Pre ident Lincofu, and that President Lincoln said that on no a of which we hear so much. Certainly it is within the competence of Now we come to find out under what provisions of law the service a citizen of the United States to engage to carry the mail anywhere was performed. On the 3d of March, 1657, "in the Post-Office appro and to take all risks of fire and sea and flood and robbery and hostil priation bill it was provided in the tenth, eleventh, twelfth, and ity if the United States are willing to pay him a sum which in his thirteenth sections, as follows : judgment will enable him to run the risk with a fair prospect of SEc. 10. And be it furlller enacted, That the Postmaster-General be, and be is meeting with an adequate reward. Nobody can doubt that, And hereby, authorized to contract for the conveyance of th~entire letter mail from yet, so far as I have been able to discover in the papers that have such point on the Mississippi River as the contractors may select;, to San Fran cisco, in the State of California, for six years, at a cost not exceedin~r three hnn- been printed and submitted to us, we do not have presented the dred thousand dolla.rs per annum for semi-monthly, four hundred and fifty thou written arrangements under which, controlling the service, this claim sand dollars for weekly, or six hundred thousand dollars for eemi-weekly service; is made. I am sorry for it. I would not have anybody suppose that to be performed semi-monthly, weekly, or semi-weekly, at the option of the Post master-General. I mean to intimate that these are withheld either by the committee SEc. 11. And be it further enacted, That the contract shall require the service to or the claimant because they might be supposed to be adverse to his be performed with good four-horse coaches- claim. I rather attribute it to the committee, having taken it for granted that here was the fact, supposed that it was of no conse That is important with reference to the remark of my eloquent quence to consider under what special circumstances and contracts friend from Kentucky yesterday as to how this gentleman went to. and arrangements this service was performed. That is all I mean to Concord, in the State of New Hampshire, or some other great wagon say in respect to the absence of this contract. But feeling a certain place and, discarding the ancient carts and mules and donkeys and interest to know what sort of a contract it was, I succeeded in per things that used to carry the mails, got these very fine vehicles: suading the Post-Office Department to furnish me with a copy of the Sxc. 11. And be it further enacted, That the contract shall require the service to original of this contract, which the Department, it appears, has taken be performed with good four-horse coaches or spring wagons, suitable for the con great pains to certify in the most formal manner. veyance of passengers as well as the safety and security of the mails. The first curious thing that strikes one about this contract is that Now comes section 12, which may be quite material if the Senate is it does not appear to have the slightest relation to the route or serv to consider this matter itself and not send it to the Court of Claims ice which grew up under it; but that is according to our methods of to consider how rich this contract was and how great inducements legislation and administration. This is a contract-and tbe Post were held out to the undertakers by way of compensation to guard Office Department info.rms me that it is the contract under which agai'n.st the risks antl perils of Indian depredations: this service was performed-a contract for carrying the mails from SEc. 12 . .And be it further macted, That the contractors shall have the right of Saint Louis, or somewhere, by way of Little Rock and El Paso, to pre-emption to three hundred and twenty acres of any land not then disposed of the Pacific coast. There it began in 1857 or 1858. It contained these or reserved, at each point necessary for a station, not to be nearer than ten miles provisions, because it does go down and connect itself with this from each other; and provided that no mineral land shall be thus pre-empted. affair-- That provided that the contractors should be entitled to pre-empt Mr. COCKRELL. Will the Senator from Vermont permit that to and take up three hundred and twenty acres at every ten miles over be printed in full f this 1,500 to 1,800, miles as I suppose it was, but 1,500 is near enough Mr. EDMUNDS. I will permit anybody to do anything. for the general consideration I am advancing. That would be 3,200 Mr. COCKRELL. Let it go into the RECORD. I think it ought to acres for every one hundred miles at points at which necessarily emi go into the RECORD. A resolution was passed some time ago asking gration would center itself; that is at each station, and where emi the Po tm11ster-General to furnish to the Senate copies of all con gration gathered around ~he station by settlement of other people tracts in which Mr. Holladay was interested, and I have on my desk there would be a village, and land would become valuable, it would the report that he made. I do not think that contract was included be a village plot. in it at all. Then the thirteenth section of this act provided as to the length Mr. EDMUNDS.. Probably not. of time required for the trip, twenty-five days, and required security, Mr. COCKRELL. I supposed that it was under some one of these &c. Under that statute this first contract of 1857 was made by these contracts that this service was performed. · overland-mail people, as they are called, for the southern route. Fol Mr. EDMUNDS. Probably this contract was not included in the lowing that and coming down to this particular servicet...we :find this ·report referred to; and that is another of the curious things about in the act of 1861. The fifteenth section of the act of .t<'ebruary 27, this business, because this contract and its modification which ap 1861, makes this provision: pears on the back of it, transferring this service from the southern That the Postmaster-General is hereby authorized and directed to advertise for route by Santa Fe and El Paso to the central route by Salt Lake and proposals for the daily transportation of the entire mail, overland, between Saint Denver, does not appear to be connected with Mr. Holladay at all, Joseph, Missouri, or some other point on the Missouri River, connected by rail road with the East; which may be selected by the contractor, and Placerville, Cal. and be is n@ither principal nor surety in it, and the so-called Over ifornia, over the central route, the bids to be received till the flrs.t Monday of land Mail Company, instead of appearing to be a corporation by that April, 1861, and the service to commence July 1, 1861, or as soon thereafter as pos name, appears by this contract to be a body of individuals who enter sible, and to terminate July 1, 1865. .And the Postmaster-General is hereby directed into this contract, and sign one as president and others as members, to award the contract to the lowest responsible bidder furnishing ample guarantees of his ability and disposition to perform his contract: Provided, That the amount and so on, bnt Mr. Holladay's name nowhere appears, and when yon of his bid shall not exceed l eOO,OOO per year: Provided, That the contractor sbaU come to its modification, as it is called, by which this southern serv supply Denver City and Great Salt Lake City at least semi-weekly without extra ice is moved up to t-he central route, as it is called, by Salt Lake this charge: .And provided further, That the letter and newspaper mail shall be carried claimant's name nowhere appears. And if I am correctly informed through in twenty days, and the pamphlet, magazine, periodical, and public docu ment mail in thirty-five days. But the Postmaster-General ma.y authorize the in my personal struggles at and in the Post-Office Department, Mr. Hol carryin.~ of said pamphlet, magazine, periodical, and public document portion of laday's name as a contractor with the Government, either as principal the mail by st~amship ronte, at least semi-monthly to San Francisco, if desired by or surety in respect of this service, nowhere appears. the contractor, and if said service is performed at the contractor's expense. It was stated, I think by the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. WILL That is material for Senators to remember in connection with what IAMS] yesterday, that Mr. Holladay was a surety for the performance was said, I think by my friend from Kentucky yesterday, as to the of this obligation by somebody to carry the mail by Salt Lake from enormous amount of this transportation in point of weight, and Saint Jo to Placerville, in California, and that the company getting therefore that it required an enormous expenditure of force and into distress this surety was obliged to take it up. The Post-Office money to carry this mail in those troublous times; whereas it appears, people tell me that they do not know anything about that; that all from my examination at the Post-Office Department, from their rec they have got is the papers, and all the papers they have shown me ords that during all or the greater portion of this time this heavy nowhere contain Mr. Holladay's name; and as I say, I have been mail was carried by way of the steamship route to Panama and to struggling now for about forty-eight hours to find out what there San Francisco, and was paid for out of this contract, which from was there, by letter, by telegram, and by personal visitation and so $dOO,OOO went up to a million at the same session, as yon will see on, so as to explore this transaction, and try to pick up the threads presently. So that apparently it was only the latter mail in sub that the committee did not seem to think important, but that I stance that was carried, and about one hundred and sixty thousand thought were for my own information. That is where the matter be dollars every year was paid to the steamship people out of this mill gins and ends; and yet there is no doubt that in some way this gen ion for carrying the heavy part of the mail the other way. tleman has under these contracts done a certain service. li he has Then this provision goes on : done it directly with the United States, then it is very strange that .And provided further, Tha.t the contra~tor shall not be required, in addition to the Post-Office Department cannot tell any of us nnderwhatwritten the letter mail, to carry more of the newspaper mail by the twenty.day schedule . authority or stipulation it has been done. I do not say that he bas than will make the average weight of the whole mail one thousand pounus per not, because I have found by experience that it is not always possible day- for a simple and bumble Senator to get all the ins and outs of the That is equal to about six or seven passen~ers- Post-Office Department on short notice ; not that they would wish to and the remainder, if any, of the newspaper mail shall be carried on the thirty-five conceal anything, but the thing is so complicated that no one branch day schedule above provided for. or department that yon happen to strike happens to be in possession That was the act of 1861. At the same session it was found con of the whole arrangement; and so I beg nobody to suppose that I am venient by somebody to modify that still further. Then we find this reflecting on the Post-OfficeDepaH:ment. Bot here we are. All that provision in the ninth section of the act of March 2, 1861 : they say they are able to give me is this contract for a southern trans That in lieu of the daily service on the central route, provided by the act entitled portation from Little Rock, going from Memphis and Saint Louis both, "An act for theestablisbmentof post-routes," approved February '27, l t'61- by El Paso to the Pacific coast, and a modification which moves this Four days before the one I have just been reading- service up to a route from Saint Jo, to begin with, and afterward the Postmaster-General is hereby directed to discontinue the mail service on route .Atchison, by way of Salt Lake, to Placerville, in CnJifornia. number 12578- 1881. CONGRESSIONA.L RECORD-SENATE. 519 And that is the route in this contract which the Post-Office De statutes and policy of the United States, at the rate of a dollar per partment has furnished me- half ounce. There they stood. · from Saint Louis and Memphis to San Francisco, California, and to modify the Mr. THURMAN. May I interrupt my friend from Vermont to ask contract on said route, subject to the same terms and conditions- him, is the term "private mail-matter" in the statute f Among which was this pre-emption provision, and another one which Mr. EDMUNDS. Yes, the statute provides that they may carry it. Senators will see when they read it, which authorized the Postmaster Mr. THURMAN. What is meant by" private mail-matterY" General to change the route for sundry reasons that it might be Mr. EDMUNDS. Private letters, &c., which the ordinary statutes necessary, and under which, as appears in the records at the Post-Office do not allow a mail-carrier to carry over a mail-route. Department that I saw myself this morning, the route was changed Mr. THURMAN. Were these contractors allowed to carry it them and swung to a place one hundred miles shorter on the application of selves, to set up a post-office of their own and receive it f the contractors. Whether it was the same change that is spoken of Mr. EDJ\.IUNDS. Precisely, to the extent of this fast pony express. here in order to get rid of Indian depredations, I am not sufficiently They might carry anything that anybody chose to send. They must familiar with the geography of the affair to know; but it was swung only carry five pounds for the United States (that is the limit) on the to a route that goes by the Cherokee trail, Bridger's Pass, &c., which pony express, but they could carry any quantity they liked of private was represented to be one hundred miles shorter than the one that mail-matter, exactly the same thin_g that is within five pounds in their lock-pouch, for private citizeli!, and they might charge a dollar the origina.l contract required. The act proceeds: per half ounce for it. Hereby directed to discontinue the mail service on route No. 125i8 from Saint Louis and Memphis to San Francisco, California, and to modify the contract on Mr. THURMAN. And those letters never go through the post-office said route, subject tQ the same terms and conditions only as hereinafter provided, at all f said discontinuance to take effect on or before July 1, 1861. The contractors on said Mr. EDMUNDS. They never go through the post-office at all. These route shall be required to transport the entire letter mail six times a week on the were the benQfits and advantages: a million dollars a year, the right central route, said letter m&il to be carried through in twenty days' time, eijZht months in the year, and in twenty-three days the remaining lour months of the of pre-emption to three hundred and twenty acres at every ten miles, year, from some point on the Missouri River connected wii!h the East, to Pla{ler the right to send all the heavy mail matter, the printed matter, and ville, California, and also todelivertheentire mails tri-weekly to Denver City and the still worse than printed matter, such speeches as I am making at Great Salt Lake City. Said contractors shall also be required to carry the residue 1 this present moment, and so on, by way of the Isthmus in thirty-five of all mail matter in a period not exceeding thirty-five days- days at the ordinary transportation steamboat rates. Here comes the heavy part of it, about which observation has been Mr. CONKLING. They did not come within the five-pounds limit! made- Mr. EDMUNDS. No, it was not that small bottle of the elixir that with the privilege of sending the latter semi-monthly from New York to San Fran my friend is so familiar with that enabled the man who possessed it cisco in twenty-five days by sea, and the public documents ia thirty-five days. to obtain at one glance all the hidden treasures of the universe, while That is to say, it was supposed by this statute, and very rightly, his less intelligent companions were allowed to carry off the camel no doubt, that the proceedings of the Senate and Honse of Repre loads of congressicmal documents. I believe that is the Arabian story; sentatives were of far less consequence to the public of the Pacific is it notf coast than the ordinary pamphlets and weekly newspapers and ad Here this man began; that is, the committee tell us he did. As I vertisenents, and so forth, that private citizens put forth. That was say, the utmost diligence that I am able to exert does not disclose to a discrimination against ourselves to the extent of ten days, which no me in any record of Post-Office Department that they have shown me, doubt was well warranted in those times; it would not do now at all, that my good friend, Mr. Holladay, was en rapp01·twith the Post-Office of course. [Laughter.] Department at all. He only appears there as the signer of receipts. They shall also be required during the continuance of their contract, or until the Of course that is a. very good attitude to appear in; but there it is. completion of the overland telegraph, to run a pony express semi-weekly at a Mr. President, in the light of what the Senator from Delaware schedule time of ten days eight months, and twelve days four months, carrying for the Government, free of charge, five pounds of mail matter, with the liberty of [Mr. BAYARD] said yesterday as to the public obligation of the United charging the public for transportation of letters by said express not exceeding $1 States to defendeverybodywho has a contract with it against all the per half ounce. misfortunes in this world, it does appear to me that it is worthy of That was part of the privilege of these contractors-that they might some consideration to inquire whether anything can be found in this carry private mail-matter on their own hook and charge a dollar per contract and its modification, under which the Post-Office Department half ounce for the rapidity with which they did it. say this claim is made, that will justify us in deciding now and here For the abo~e service said contractors shall receive the sum of t,ooo,ooo- per an· that we have undertaken any duty of securing this transportation num, the contract for such service to be thus modified before the 25th day of March against a public enemy. That is the question. next, and expire July 1, 1864. I think we bore rather apt to confound two quite distinct things in Mr. COCKRELL. What was the date of that act f considering a matter of this kind, in respect. of the nature of the Mr. EDMUNDS. The 2d of March, 1861. Now I find on the Post Government of the United States. If the Government of the United Office books-! do not know that it is here because I have not had States makes a bargain with me to furnish it a hundred bushels of time to examine this contract very fully and read it through as it oats to be delivered at Richmond, Virginia, I take it that the true only came to me a short time ago-a copy of the moQ.ification of this rnle of law and justice is that I stand in respect of the obligation of contract made on the 12th of March, 1861, only ten days after the delivering those oats at Richmond, Virginia, precisely as if I had passage of the act, by which the original contractors, by their piesi made a similar contract with yon ; and that is, that I am bound to dent, as he is called, Mr. Dinsmore, and by Mr. Alvord the lmperin deliver the oats there, and if I do not I am not entitled to my pay. tendent, agreed to a modification of the contract in accordance with When I have made that contract with yon I stand exactly as I did this act of the 2d of March, 1861; the result of which was that the before in reference to my attitude to the Government of the United transportation by the southern route was abandoned and the trans States. The Government of the United States (waiving all questions portation by this route was adopted; the compensation was increased of State sovereignty and distinctions of qualification that we need not from $600,000 a year to 1,000,000 a year, with the right of the con go into now) is bound to protect me as a citizen of the United States tractors to run their pony express and carry private mail matter at in the enjoyment of all my constitutional rights, and one of them is a dollar per half ounce, and with all the privileges of pre-emption, &c., to make a. bargain with yon to deliver oats at Richmond. If the of the public lands that the original contract by the southern route British or any other evil-disposed persons assail me in the progress gave, and with. the provision that appears in this original contract of my voyage from the harbor of Boston to that of Richmond, it is the that: duty of the Government of the United States (which is composed of If obstacles, auch as the want of water, or feed, or physical obstructions, should won and all the rest of us, and the President and the Honse and the be found between the points herein designated. so that time cannot be made, and Senate, and so on) to defend me; but I never heard in such a case a better line can be found between those points, the Postmaster-General may vary that it was the duty of the Government to be an insurer; and if the the route to such better line. British really destroyed my oats that the people of the United States Then there is another provision in this original contract, (which were bound to tax themselves to pay for it. They were bound to do was also modified as I say, in the way of getting $400,000 more com all they could, reasonably and fairly, to protect my rights, and no pensation and another route and so on,) that the contractors under more. Therefore, every civilized government has always held to the take to ~nard the mail against inj ory, loss, destruction, and "for rule that no priva1e citizen had any legal or jnst claim against his carrying It in a place or manner that exposes it to depredation, loss, government for injuries that a common enemy had inflicted upon or injury by being wet," lost or destroyed, &c. him, if his government had exerted all the force of which it was rea So, then, according to the apparent reading of this original con sonably cap:l.ble to perform its duty toward him. In other words, tract, the price paid, with the privilege of pre-~mption, &c., was sup the obligatio. of protection by a government is not one of absolute posed to be measured somewhat in accordance with the difficulty and quality, but it is one of fidelity. If we were to hold otherwise, all the the risk of that species of transcontinental transportation through cotton that grows in that magnificent South which we have heard so uninhabited and unsettled countries where the elements and the In magnificently described to-day, and all the humbler substance of hay dians usually prevailed . . Then when we come to the change of this that the grangers in New England and in all the North grow, and all route, preserving these beneficial provisions for both sides of changes the industry of every iron mine and manufactory and every other and modifications of route for great-er safety, there appears to be re species of industry in this whole country, would be exhausted for tained, the advantage of the pre-emption every ten miles of three twenty years to compensate the injury committed to citizens of the hundred and twenty acres of land, two quarter sections as they are United States by the late unpleasant circumstances that occurred called in the land laws, and an increase of the compensation from between ourselves. Nobody holds, I think, on either side of this $600,000 to $1,000,000 a year, and with the privilege of carrying pri Chamber, that the duty of the Government of the United States baa vate mail matter in their rapid pony express contrary t-<> the ordinary failed in the slightest degree because it has not compensated every' 520 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SE-NATE. Union man in the South for what he suffered in consequence of a war equally bound to protect a private carrier of produce or merchandise that his government could not prevent; or if the case had been re or a traveler over these routes, and finding that one particular way versed and the confederacy had triumphed, no man would have of going through the mountains was more dangerous than another, thought, I think, of any obligation on the part of the succesafnl con the military authorities inform all concerned that they bad better federate government to compensate its loyal citizens for injuries that change to a better place. That was in perfect accordance with the they had suffered as a consequence of war. That is not it. The duty provisions of the contract, that if that was found to be the case the of a government is a duty to exercise faithful diligence in protection; change should be made; and in respect of one of these changes that is all. (whether this or not I am not sufficiently informed to say) the change Now, what did this Government do, and what did happen f Here resulted beneficially to the contractors in reducing the distance that was a contract that was carried from 600,000 a year to a million, they were obliged to travel by one hundred miles. with pre-emptions and special privileges, and express provisions for Mr. HOAR. Before the Senator from Vermont leaves that point changing routes from dangerous ones to safe ones, and the change will he permit me to inquire of him whether in speaking of the right here made had the effect of diminisbing1 if you believe the records reserved to change the route he bases that right on anything except of the Post-Office Department, the length of this route by a hundred the paragraph in the contract itself, which he has read Y 1 miles at the request of the cont ctor and going· another way, under Mr. EDMUNDS. Th.e right of the United States to change the which it is said that these losses occurred. With every disposition route with the consent of the contractor, of course, would only exist to do the fullest justice to this gentleman, I am not prepared to de by force of the arrangement between the two parties. When you cide that he is entitled to half a million of money or the half of half come to the different right of the United States as a political body a million of money. I wish to be further informed; I wish to have in protecting its citizens, to say to these contractors exactly as it somebody scrutinize for me, by cross-examination and careful elab might have said to them, if they had been private expressmen, oration of the facts, the precise circumstances under which these ''There is danger from Indians here, and you had better get over to events occurred and the precise degree to which this loss went. the other side of this mountain and save a hundred miles in distance," Another thing has struck me as being unfortunte in the report of that is another question. the committee, and that is when 'you come to the quantity of this l!r. WILLIAMS. Will the Senator indulge me just a moment f claim, to the value of the horses, the value of grain, the value of build Mr. EDMUNDS. Certainly. in~e, (the property, it is said, of this gentleman, although there is no Mr. WILLIAMS. For fear that I may forget it, I will state now eVldence of that fact before the Senate, it does not appear in these con that the Senator, in his allusion to my remarks yesterday in reference tracts; but I make no point about that; I presume in some way he bas to Mr. Holladay being surety, said he could find nothing of that in come to be the rightful proprietor of this claim,) you find produced by this transcript from the postal department. The fact is that the himonlytheaffidavitsofsundrypersons,whenicannotdoubt,although Overland Mail Company sublet a portion of their line to Russell, I know nothing about it, that an enterprise as great as this was car Majors & Waddell, on the southern route; and when it was moved ried on with some system, and that Mr. Holladay, or the Overland by act of Congress to what is called the middle route that firm was Mail Company, or somebody, kept books, as even the farmers inVer to take the part from Kansas City to Salt Lake City under the new mont and Georgia and Oregon I have no doubt do, of their transac arrangement for a daily mail with mail-coaches. Mr. Holladay was tions ; and therefore that it was within the power of Mr. Holladay or the surety of Russell, Majors & Waddell to the Overland Mail Com this company to present to the committee the books of their daily and pany, and not to the Government. Hence it is that his name does not annual transactions. They would show exactly how much the horses appear on the abstract from which the Senator bas read. cost, as they were great purchasers in the market and how much they Mr. EDMUNDS. So it may be; I dare say that is right. were worth really to them, and exactly how much they lost by the Mr. WILLIAMS. I assure the Senator that is the fact. destruction, if it were proved, of a hundred horses. I am told that Mr. EDMUNDS. I do not wish to have anybody suppose that I there is not any such evidence ; I asked my friend from Wisconsin believed Mr. Holladay was a pure intruder here in making this claim, yesterday; it had not been produced. When you come to the grain, and that be was never west of the Mississippi River; I do not wish the oats, and the corn, at $5 or $10 a bushel, whatever it is, (and I am anybody to suppose that; but I say that it does not appear according not saying that it is too much; I do not know; that is the thing that to the statement of the Post-Office people. I do not wish anybodv troubles me,) I must assume it was within the power of Mr. Holladay or to be bound by that, because I do not believe in legislating on the the people whom he represents to show from the books of their trans private representations of Senators except so far as you choose; but actioDB what that corn cost them at Saint Louis, at Atchison, at Saint I have merely done the best I could in the absence of an exploration Jo, wherever they bought it, and by what method!\ and at what by the committee of this business, to inform myself; that is all; and cost it was put down at Julesburgh, for iDBtance, which is said to be I am giving the reasons why I think we ought not to pass this bill one of the places that were destroyed. In respect of the cost of build in a lump, but ought to have a careful and fair investigation where ings, one set of which the Senator from Delaware referred to yester both sides and all sides can be heard. Yet in this same original con day, as stated by some witness as capable of being reconstructed for tract, which is the foundation of this whole thing, there is the pro $10,000 that is itemized at $35,000, I cannot doubt that the books of Mr. vision that the contractors shall be responsible for everybody who Holladay, or the books of the Overland Transportation Company, or stands below them, by some phrase or another. the books of somebody who was carrying on this business, would tell That is, as it seems to me, about. the present state of this case; and us substantially exactly what those buildings cost and what they were I must say for one that it is not at all satisfactory to me in respect worth. of deciding as a judge against the tax-payers of the United States I do not speak for anybody else, and I do not speak adversely to that this gentleman is entitled to this half a million and more of this claim; I only say, how can I now undertake to decide affirma money. At the same time I am unwilling to decide on the merits tively against the defendant in this cause, to use a legal expression, that he is not entitled to something. Therefore I should vote for the the tax-payers of the United States, upon a case so imperfect as it amendment proposed by the Senator from New York [.Mr. KERNAN) appears to me this is 'f At the same time it may be to its fullest ex with such modifications as would seem to make it effective and just tent, for aught I know, perfectly just. What better, then, can I do, to all sides. what better can we all do, than to send this case to some tribunal, if Mr. COCKRELL. Will the Senator permit to be copied the con there has been no inexcusable delay about the statute of limitations, tract to which he has referred f (and it seems to be taken for granted there bas not,sothatthatneed Mr. EDMUNDS. Certainly. not stand in the way ) where there can be a careful and sifting inves Mr. COCKRELL. I hope that will be done, so that it can be §een tigation of this whoie affair, where the books of these contractors in the RECORD. may be produced and where the quantum of their loss-whether the The contract is as follows: United States is responsible for it or not, which is another question No. 12578.J [$600,000 per annum. can be substantially ascertained. We can, of course, go through such This article of agreement, made the sixteenth day of Sept., in the year 1857; be. an investigation as to what was the actual cost of the horses, of the tween the U. S., (actin_g in that behalf by their Postmaster-General,) and John But grain, of the property, the harness, the buildings, that they say have terfield, of Utica, N. Y.; William B. Dinsmore, of New York City; William G. been destroyed, and we can find out as well as a court can find out Fargo, of Buffalo, N.Y.; James V. P. Gardiner, of Utica, Marcus L. Kin:von, of Rome, N.Y.; Alexander Holland, of New York City; and Hamilton Spencer, of how many have been destroyed and under what circumstances. Bloomington, Ills.; and Danford N. Barney, of the city of New York; J ohuston Liv One other remark I want to make, and that is about the military ingston, of Livingston, N. Y.; David Moulton, of Floyd, N. Y.; and Elijah P. J. order, which makes one sentence in the report of the committee, Williams, of Buffalo, N. Y., Witnesseth, That, whereas, John Butterfield, William B. Dinsmore, William G. which appears to be a moving cause for a large part of this proposed Fargo, James V. P. Gardiner, Marcus L. Kinyon, Alexander Holland, and Hamilton payment, as if Mr. Holladay or the people whom he represents was Spencer, have been accepted, according to law, as contrartors for tran s p01 tin~ coerced by some military authority into a change of the line to his the entire letter mail, agreeably to the provisions of the eleventh, twelfth, and great damage. The only official document apparently that we have thirteenth sections of an a~t of Uongress approved 3d March, 1857, (mal..'ing appro priations for the services of the Post-Office Department for the :fi scal year ending ot in this whole report is that order of the officer, as it is called. 30th June, 1858,) from the Mississippi River to San Francisco, California, as fol fthink if Senators will look at that so-called order, they will find that lows, viz: it is not a coercive order at all, but it merely presents to this con From St. Lonis, Missouri, aml from Memphis, Tennessee, converging at Little tractor who has aright togo byonewayratherthan another through Rock, Arkansas, and thence, via Preston, Texas, or as near as may be fountl ad visable, to the best point of crossing the Rio Grande above El Paso, and not far the Indian country, the fact that if he wants to be best protected by from Fort Fillmore; thence along the new road being opened and constructed under the military of the United States it can be much better done by go the direction of the Secretary of the Interior to or near Fort Yuma, Cal. ; thence ing the other way. That fa.lls in perfect harmony with the provisions through the best passes, and along the best valleys for safe and expeditions staging, of this contract in respect of changes of route, so as to bring thew hole to Sanll'rancisco, California, and back, twice a week, in good four· horse post-coaches or spring wagons, suitable for the conveyance of passengers, as well as the safety thing into the ordinary case of the Government of the United States and security of the mails, at six hundred thousand dollars a year for and during endeavoring to protect these mail-carriers as they would have been the term of six years, commencing the sixteenth day of September, in the year one , 1881. , CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 521 thousand eight hundred ~d fifty-eight, and en~g the fifteenth day of Septemb~r, i hereby ct-!tify that I am well acquainted with Danford N. :Barney, Johnston in the year one thousand e1ght hundred and su.ty-four: Now, therefore, the sa.J.d Livingston, DaVJd Moulton, ·and Elijah P. Williams, and the conditiOn of their John :Butterfielu, William :B. Dinsmore. William G. Far~o, James V. P. GardnerJ property, and that, after full investigation and inquiry, I am well satisfied that Marcus T. Kinyon, Alexander Holland, and Hamilton Spencer, contractors, ana they are good and sufficient sureties for the amount in the foregoin~ contract. Danford N. :Barney, Johnston Livingat.on, DavidMoulton, andElijabP. Wi:Jliams, IS.A..A.C V. FOWLER, their sureties, do jointly and severally undertake, covenant, a11d agree With the Postmaster at New York, N.Y. U.S., and do bind themselves-· Ordered, that whenever the contractors and their securities shall file in the Post 1st. To carry said letter-mail within the time fixed by the law above referred to, Office Department a request, in writing, that they desire to make the junction of that is, within twenty-five days for each trip, and accoi-ding to the annexed sched the two branches of said road at Preston instead of Little Rock, that the Depart ule of departures and arrivals. ment will permit the same to be done by some route not further west than Spring 2d. To carry said letter mail in a safe and secure manner, free from wet or other field, in Missouri; thence, by Fayett~ville, Van :Buren, and Fort Smith, in the State injury, in a boot under the driver's seat, or other secure place, and in preference of Arkansas, to the said junction, at or near the t~wn of Preston, in Texas; but to passengers and to their entire exolu~ion if its weight and bulk require it. said new line shall be adopted on the express condition that the said contractors 3d. To take the said letter mail andeverypartof it from, and deliveritandevery shall not claim or demand from the Department, or from Congress, any increased part of it at, each post-office on the route, or that may hereafter be established on compensation for, or on a-ccount of, such change in the route from St. Louis, or of the route. and into the post-office at each end of the route, and into the post-office the point of junction of the two routes from Little Rook to Preston ; and, on the at the place which the carrier stops at night, if one is therE." kept; and if no office further express condition, that whilst the amount of lands to which the contractors is there kept, to lock it up in some secure pla{le at the risk of the contractors. may be entitled under the act of Conp;ress may be estimated, on either of said They also undertake, covenant, and agree with the United States, and do bind branches, from Preston to St. Louis or Memphis, at their option, yet the said con themseh·es jointly and severally as aforesaid, to be answerable for the persons to tractors shall take one-half of that amount on each of said branches, so that neither whom the said contractors shall commit the care and transportation of the mail, shall have an advantage, in the way of stations and settlement, over the other; and., · and accountable to the United States for any damages which may be sustained by in ca-se said contractors, in selecting and locating their land~>, shall disregard thi/3- the United States through their unfaithfulness or want of care; and that the said condition, or give other undue advantage to one of said branches over the other, the contractors will discharge any carrier of said mail whenever required to do so by Department reserves the power of discontinuing said new route from St. Louis to the Postmaster-General; also, that they will not transmit, by themselves or their Preston, and to hold said contractors and tbeir securities to the original route and agent, or be concerned in transmitting, commercial int~lligence more rapidly than terms expressed and set forth in the body of this contract. by mail, other than by telegraph; and that they will not catTy out of the mail let .AARON V. :BROWN, ters or newspapers wbich Should go by post. And, further, the said contractors Postmaster-General. will con>ey without additional charge the special agents of the Department, on the 11th September, 1857. exhibition of their credentials. They further undertake, covenant. and agree with the United States, that the March 12, 1861.-Route No. 12578, California, Saint Louis, and Memphis to San said contractors will collect quarterly, if required by the Postmaster-General, of Francisco semi-weekly, four-horse coaches. Overland Mail Company, E. S. Alvord, postmasters on said route, the balances due from them to the General Post-Office, Superintendent.-$625,000. and faithfully render an account thereof to the Postmaster-General, in the settle Ordered: Pursuant to act of Congress, approved 2d of March, 1861, and the ac ment of quarterly accounts, and will pay over to the General Post-Office all bal ceptance of the terms thereof by the Overland Mail Company. Modify the present ances remaining in their hands. contract with that company for route No. 12578, e:x;ecuted 16th of September, 1857~ For which services, w ben performed, the said John :Butterfield, William :B. Dins to take eftect 16th of September, 1858, so as to discontinue service on the present more, William G . Fargo, James V. P. Gardner, Marcus L. Kinyon, .Alexandar Hol route and to provide for the transportation of the entire letter-mail six times a week land, and Hanrilton Spencer, contractors, are to be paid by the United States the on the central route; said letter-mail to be carried through in twenty days' time, sum of ~00 , 000 a year, to-wit: Quarterly, in the months of May, August, Novem eight months of the year, and in twenty-three days the remaining four months of ber, and February, through the postmasters on the route, or otherwise, at the option the year, from Saint Joseph, Missouri, (or Atchison, in Kansas,) to Placerville, in of the Postmaster-General of the United Stat~s: said pay to be subject, however, California, and also for the delivery of the entire mail, three times a week each to be reduced or discoatinued by the Postmaster-General, as hereinafter stipulated, way, to Denver City and Great Salt Lake City; and in casethemailsdonotamount or to be suspended in case of delinquency. to six hundred pounds par trip, then other mail matter to make up that weight per It is hereby also stipulated and agreed, by the said contractors and their sure triJ,> to be conveyed; but in any event the entire Denver City and Salt Lake City ties, that in all cases there is to be a forfeiture of the pay of a trip when the trip mails, and the entire letter-mail for California, to be conveyed. The contractors is not run; and of not more than three times the pay of the trip when the trip is also to be required to convey the residue of all mail matter in a. period not exceed not run and no sufficient excuse for the failure is furnished; and a forfeiture of a ing thirty-five days, with the privilege of sendingthelatter semi-monthly from New due proportion of it when a grade of service is rendered inferior to the mode of York to San Francisco in twenty-five days by sea and the public documents in conveyance above stipulated; and that these forfeitures may be increased into thirty-five days. And to be required also, during the continuance of their contract, penalties of higher amount, according to the nature or frequency of the failures or until the completion of the overland telegraph, to run a pony express semi and Hie importance of the mail· also, that fines may be imposed upon the con weekly at a schedule time of ten days eight months of the year, and twel>e days tractors, unless the delinquency be satisfactorily explained to the Postmaster-Gen four months of the year, and to convey for the Government free of charge five eral in due time for failing to take from or deliver at a post-office the said letter pounds of mail matter, with liberty of charging tbe public for transportation of mail, or any part of it; for suffering it to be wet, injured, lost, or destroyed; for letters by said express not exceeding $1 per half ounce. The compensation for the carrying it. in a place or man.ner that exposes it to depredation, loss, or injury, by whole service to be 1,000,000 per annum, to take effect ouor before the 1st of July, being wet or otherwise; for refusing, after demand, to convey a letter mail by any 1861, and to expire 1st of July, 1864. The number of the route to be changed to- coach or wagon which the contractors regularly run, or are concerned in running, 10773 and the service to be recorded in the route register for Missouri. on the route, beyond the number of trips above specified; or for not arriving at the Note at bottom of this order: time set in the ached ule; and for setting up or running an express to transmit let In behalf of the Overland Mail Company the undersigned accept the above modifi ters or commercial intelligence in advance of the mail, or for transporting know cation of their contract. ingly, or after being informed, any one engaged in transporting letters or mail 12th of March, 1861. · matter in violation of the laws of the United States, a penalty may be exactoo of W. B. DINSMORE, President, the contractors equal to a quarter's pay; but in all other C8.11es no fine shall exceed E. S . .ALVORD, Supt. 0. M. Go. three times the price of the trip. And whenever it is satisfactorily shown that the contractors, their carrier, or agent, have left or put aside the said letter mail, or Mr. VOORHEES. Mr. President-- any :portion of it, for the accommodation of passengers, they shall forfeit not ex Mr. HOAR. I wish to occupy one moment merely in calling the ceeding a quarter's pay. in And it is hereby further stipulated and agreed by the said contractors and their attention of the Senate to the exact provision of this contract re sureties that the Postmaster-General may annul the contract for repeated failures; gard to a que~tion-- for violating the post-office laws; for disobeying the instructions of the Depart Mr. VOORHEES. I believe I was recognized, but I yield. ment; for refusing to discharge a carrier w ben required by the Department; for Mr. HOAR. I beg the Senator's pardon. assigning the contract or any part of it without the consent of the Postmaster General ; for setting up or running an expre-ss, as aforesaid ; or for transporting Mr. VOO~HEES. I yield to the Senator from Massachusetts. persons carrying mail-matter out of the mail, as aforesaid; or whenever either of Mr. HOAR. I understood the Chair to recognize me; he looked the contractors shall become a postmaster, assistant postmaster, or member of Con at me as I rose. gress; and this contract shall in all its parts be subject to the terms and requisi The PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. ALLiso~ in the chair.) The tions of an act of Congress passed on the 21st day of April, in the year of our Lord 1808, entitled ".An act concerning public contracts." And the Postmaster Chair having recognized the Senator from Indiana, he is entitled to General may also annul the contra{lt whenever be shall discover that the same, or the floor. any :part of it, is offered for sale in the market for the purpose of speculation. Mr. HOAR. I think I shall occupy literally but sixty seconds, if It Is hereby further stipulated and agreed that if obstacles, such as the want of the Senator will yield to me. water or feed or physical obstructions, should be found between the points herein designated, so that time cannot be made, and a better line can be found between 1\fr. VOORHEES. I yield. I hope the Senator from Massachusetts. these points, the Postmaster-General may vary the route to such better line. will take all the time he desires. And it is also further understood and agreed that the contractors shall have all .Mr. HOAR. The Senator from Vermont made a point, reading the. the rights of pre-emption, whatever they may be, secured by the twelfth section of contract, it is true, which at the beginning impressed me with great the act of Con~ess aforesaid, approved 3d March, 1857, on either of the lines, from the Mississippi River to the paint of their junction with the main stem, but not on force, which was that the contract itself reserved to the Government both. The election to be made by them at any time within twelve months after the right to change this route ; and, if be did not argue he sug the date of the execution of this contract. gested that the compensation fixed in the contract, the contract In witness whereof, the said Postmaster-General bas caused the seal of the Post- price, was based upon the liability to the exercise of that right. ~:lcili~~~*~~a~~resha~d~~~~e~~ ~!!:~~rS::~~=e~~~e!~=i~~:i~ Now let me read, and I wish Senators would do me the favor to listen the day and year set opposite their names respectively. carefully, while I read, what the contract says on that subject, which [SEAL.] AARON V. BROWN, I understand from the Senator from Vermont is all the reservation Postmaster-General. of such right; he does not base it on any general statute affecting Signed, sealed, and delivered by the Postmaster-General in the presence of all such contracts: WM. H. DUNDAS. REVERDY JOHNSON. It is hereby further stipulated and agreed that if obstacles, such as the want of And by the other parties hereto in the presence of wat~ror feed, or physical obstructions, should be found between the points herein REVERDY JOHNSON. designated, so that time cannot be made, and a. better line can be found between ISAAC V. FOWLER. those points, the Postmaster-General may vary the route to such better line. JOHN :BUTTERFIELD. In other words, if obstacles of aparticular class such as would sug W. :B. DINS:\-lORE. [SEAL.[ SEAL.~ gest themselves to a party makin~ a contra.ct like this in time of WM. G. FARGO. [SEAL. peace, like the want of water or feed, or physical obstruction, that is J. V. P. GARDNER [SEAL. :M. L. KINYON. (SEAL.l if an unexpected gorge or mountain range interfering with the pas .ALEX. HOLLAND. (SlU.L ~ sage of these wagons should be discovered, there may be a change. H. SPENCER. Does the Senator from Vermont seriously claim that that stjpnlation D. N. BARNEY. f~:j in the contract embraces a case of a damage of the line occasioned JOHNSTON LIVINGSTON. [SEAL.l DAVID MOULTON. [SEAL. by the breaking out of a war and the impossibility of the passage- ELIJAH P. WILLI.AMS. (SEAL. . along this line of the drivers and others servants of the contractor in 522 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 11, ~barge of his mail wagons f Is that an obstacle such as the want of Therefore I say that this change of route, (if it be the same one, and water or feed found on the line, in consequence of which there may that I do not know at this moment,) which appears in the Post-Office .be a. transfer of the route to a better line! This man pnts his claim, record books to have been one made in the interest and for the ben as I understand it, on the ground that there broke out a war such as efit of the contractor, and to have diminished one hundred miles of would be an excuse for the performance of any contract, such as desert and mountaiB. and of danger, is q,ot one that furnishes him would be even an excuse for the performance by a common carrier prima facie with a right to claim and to be indemnified, and that this .of that strictest of obligations known to the law, his obligation to military order of a colonel, which is the only document which the the party to carry safely what is intrusted to him; that there being committee apparently bas favored us with upon that subject, is not to -such an excuse be called upon the President of the United States and be construed as the committee construe it and as the Senators sup the President said," the interest of this conn try requires the commn- porting the bill construe it, as a coercive expulsion of this man or nication between the Atlantic and the Pacific to be kept up at all his people from one route to another, but as only furnishing him the <:ost and at all hazards, and if you will proceed to do that along the means of doing his duty on a shorter line and with less risk; that he line where it is most convenient for the United States to furnish yon was not pushed out of that route at the point of the bayonet and military protection, this line having become impossible, yon shall be into the other one, but he was only told in the curt language of mil compensated." It is on that assnrancemade to him by the President itary people, "We can protect yon on this route and we cannot pro ·Of the United States that the obligation, in honor and in law, of the teet yon on the other, and so go to this one." T~at did not oblige Government of the United States to make this compensation depends; him to go; but if it be the same chan~e, which, as I say, I do not and itisnotsnchanobstacleastbreeorfouryearsbeforethewarbroke know, it was merely the form of carrymg out what the Post-Offiee -out, like want of feed or want of water, that this contract refers to. Department had thought it wise to do for the benefit of the con- Mr. EDMUNDS. Mr. President-- tractor, for the safety of the mail, and for the mutual advantage of Th& PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. INGALLS in the chair.) The everybody by shortening the route by a hundred miles. But I do "Senator from Indiana is entitled to the floor. Does he yield to the not know, as I said before, that this change that appears in the Post- .Senator from Vermont f Office record shorte:ning the route a hundred miles is the same one Mr. VOORHEES. I yield to the Senator from Vermont. that was made on this occasion. Mr. ED.MUNDS. I wish to say that the Senator from Massacbu- There is another curious thing that appears in these books, and that ·setts does not quite do me justice about the clauses of the contract is that this change from Jnlesbnrgh, which is one of the places re to which I called attention. He does not think it worth his while to ferred to where very extensive buildings were burned down, appears refer to the clause in it about depredations upon the mail, but does to have been made on the Post-Office books to a place called Clear xefer to the one as to physical o~structions, and he thinks that an water, and then I do not know how many months afterward, but in Indian barrier is not a physical but I suppose only a moral or spir- 1864, the minute in the Post-Office books is that it was changed back itual obstruction. to Julesburgb, whether at the request of the contractor or what not I Mr. HOAR. Mr. President-- do not know, and whether the buildings when be got back to Jules- Mr. EDMUNDS. If the Senat-or will pardon me, I will give him burgh were found to be just as they were before we do not know. All .an opportunity to reply. these things, as I said before, lead me to think that this case is in Mr. HOAR. When stating what I think, perhaps the Senator no condition for a final decision upon its merits by this body either would like to know what I think. way. Mr. EDMUNDS. I am only stating what I think my friend thinks, I wish to say one word more, and then I shall thank the Senator .and that may be quite a different thing. I suppose my friend from from Indiana for his kindness. Massachusetts thinks that the trne construction of this phraseology My--friend from Massachusetts seems to put his most impressive in the contraat relates to obstructions interposed by the band of argument upon some requisition or request or order of the President nature as distinguished from the hand of man. Is not that right t of the United States, when this route was interrupted by Indian hos- Mr. HOAR. Does the Senator desire me to answer him now 'I tilities or depredations, to Mr. Holladay or somebody to go on with Mr. EDMUNDS. Yes. itfortbepnblicinterest. Whereistheevidenceofthat! ThePresi- Mr. HOAR. My point is not as the Senator from Vermont is stating dent of the United States usually acts, and he ought always to act lit, that an Indian war is not an obRtaole. My point is that the con- when public interests are concerned, in some authentic way, in writ tract speaks of obstructions occurring of a particular character, of ing-, so that we can know what the President of the United States which certain ones are specified in the contra-ct, such as want of feed (who by the Constitution is the mere administrator of the law and -or water, or physical obstructions, but that an Indian war is not an not an unlimited monarch or emperor who can bind the United Stat-es obstacle such as want of water, which is referred to. to what he pleases) bas undertaken to do, whether within or without Mr. EDMUNDS. If my friend from Massachusetts is right, if the his powers. I remember on a certain occasion not long ago we were original southern route had been adhered to and a band of Indians told that an important step relating to a person once connected with not amounting to an Indian war but of depredators (as another part the military establishmept of the United States ought to be taken ~f the contract speaks of; and that is all there was of it anywhere upon evidence that the President of the United States hau said so ~robably) had interposed and l,ypbysical force prevented the carry- and so orally about the verdict of a court-martial, and that others mg of this mail on one of the trips, the contractor would not only said that entirely the opposite course ought to be taken because the have been deprived of his pay for carrying that mail on the trip, but President of the United States bad said to somebody else at or about would have been liable to be fined three times the proportionate the same time quite a different thing. I wish to be excused, for one, amount that trip would have entitled him to, on the ground that be from undertaking to do justice and to carry on government on that had not been obstructed in any of the ways that the contract pro- kind of testimony. I shall be rather reluctant to have my opinions vided for, and that it was not a good excuse. Now, I do not believe or my actions influenced by a single hair by any oral evide1o1ce of the in that. Although literally and at first sight I think the Senator from declarations of a President of the United States, not in writing, not Massachusetts would be quite right in saying that it covered and in- communicated to the beads of any of his Dep'artments, but only ap cluded the obstructions of mere accidents of nature, yet I think that pearing in the oral testimony of no matter bow high, or honorable, or when you take it altogether, looking at the objects that were to be respectable a person. I might from this hesitation do injustice in attained by it, these provisions about modifying and changing the this case; but if you were to take a hundred cases I am quite sure route were intended to apply to every case in which it was found im- that it would be doing justice in ninety-nine if I declined to be in practicable to carry the mail by one way, and then the Postmaster- financed in the slightest degree by that kind of means of ascertain General might name another so as to get it through. That L The object of this proviso is that the court shall decide whether But, further upon this point, the Senator from Ohio continued: he bad any such contract or not, if it go to the court. In answer to what was said by the Senator from Iowa, [Mr. KmKwoon, 1 that the Mr. KERNAN. I have no objection to that. Committee on Claims would have to act upon affidavits, that Senator ou~ht to know The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from New York con that whenever that committee asks the Senate to ¢.ve it ~ower to send for persons sents to the modification, and the amendment will be so modified. and papers in an.y case of importance, that power is readily granted. I therefore concur with the Senator from Kansas [Mr. lYGA.LLSj in saying that the right way Mr. VOORHEES. Mr. President, it was not my purpose to say to deal with this subject is to take these affidavits, and if counter-proof is neces· more than a few words on the matter before the Senate; nor do I sary, let the committee ask for power to send for persons and papers, or let depo. intend to make a speech now. I shall only occupy the attention of sitions be taken under the general law of the land to be read before a committee the Senate for a very few minutes and on the point precisely in of Congress; let that be done, and let the committee decide. Believing most firmly volved. The question pending is on the motion of the Senator from that this is no case for a. court, I move that the bill be recommitted. New York to send this case to the Court of Claims for adjudication. After which, Mr. Mitchell, then a Senator in this body from the I was going to remark that I would be willing to forbear saying a State of Oregon, made a formal motion in accordance with the sug word if we could have a vote at once on that proposition. Before gestion of the distinguished Senator from Ohio, and on that motion we vote, however, in justification of the course I have pursued, I de the action of the Senate was unanimous, that the claim be recommit sire to refresh the Senate's recollection in regard to the last time this ted to the Committee on Claims with instructions to report what was -case was before this body. due here for our action. The Senator from Ohio I thought was right It is now nearly three years since the Committee on Claims, a very then ; I think that he was unanswerable at that time and for the respectable body of men, nine in number, reported a bill here to send. reasons given by him. I followed his lead then, so did the entire Mr. Holladay to the Court of Claims for a decision on his alleged Senate, and we said to Mr. Holladay and we said to the people of this rights. The matter was fully discussed here, and I beard the follow country that we would settle this question ourselves. I presume if ing argument on this subject, which fell with weight and strength the Committee on Cla.ims had, in their wisdom and sense of justice, from the distinguished Senator from Ohio, [.Mr. THURMA...."i,] the able reported here that there was not a. do1lar due to Mr. Holladay, nobody leader of this side of the Chamber. I believed he was correct then, I would have insisted on revising their finding by sending the case to believe now he was correct then. I followed his lead at that time, the Court of Claims. It is because that committee happened to find and I see no reason to change my course in that respect. I l'ead from that there was a considerable sum of money due to Mr. Holladay that the debate of March 11, 1878. The Senator from Ohio then said this: there seems to be a reluctance to act according to what we ourselves The Gi>vernment, then, bas not abro<7ated its contract with Mr. Holladay, but thought. the military officers of the Government"have directed him to carry the mail upon This afternoon, with a heavy cold pressing on my chest, I do not a different route, and for p;ood and sufficient reasons, patriotic no doubt on his intend to speak more than a few moments. I declare with the Sen part, and well advised on the part of the Government; t hough whether that ought to have been done by military order instead of by a change of the contract with the ator from Ohio that this is not a case for a court; and I say to the Post-Office Department, a. mere civilian might think was worthy of some observa. Senator from New York, with all respect andkindness, that I do not tion. But at all events the Government did that thing. The military power told see how he can well offer this amendment after allowing the action him "change your ron te and we will furnish you with protection upon that changed of the Renate to take place that did occur in 1878. If three years ago route." He did change his route. It is alleged that he did receive the protection; 1t is alleged that be incurred more cost by it, and that be sustained losses. If this we bad allowed this case to go to t.be Court of Claims, by this time be the case, this is simply an appeal to the equity of Congress." Mr. Holladay would have had it adjudicated and had a decision So I regarded it then; so I regard it now. whether anything was due ; but we told him we would take it in What has any court to do with such a question as that!- hand and decide it ourselves. We hold it for two years, almost three years, and then I venture to say, because the finding is in his favor, Queried the able Senator from Ohio, and nobody answered him. we shrink from following the line we marked out. I shall not do it; It is a question- I shall not be deterred from following my sense of justice, my over Continued he- whelming conviction of what ought to be done by any fear of votin~ for Congress, looking at the whole subject and df'aling in a spirit of equity, to for a claim. Nearly three years ago the Senate voted, under the leaa ~etermine. whether or not this gentleman should be indemnified, who has patriot;. 1cally, I will say, agreed to change that route, a~reed to carry the mail where before of the able and distinguished Senator from Ohio, that this was not a he was not bound to carry it, who has incurred losses by so doing, who has notre. case for the Court of Claims. We voted so unanimously, and instruct ceived the protection as it is said he ouJ?;ht to have received-whether the Govern· ed this committee of nine gentlemen of our own body to take the ment in honor and equity and good faith toward him ought not to reimburse his case and report to us what was right. They have done it. Gentle losses. It is a question for Congress, not a. question fora court. So it seems tome; and a fortiori is it so if the Senator from Kansas is right, if there is no evidence in men rise here and say they are not satisfied with the finding; that the wide world on this subject but these ea: parte affidavits t.aken long ago. If the they are not satisfied with the manner of proof that was bken. proposition is to recall those men who will not answer the call an:y more than "spirits There iR something; Mr President, due to a committee of this body. from the vasty deep" would answer the Glen dower's call-if that is the case, what Senators are not usually here in their callow youth; they are here is the use of send in)! this to the Court of Claims i Why not let the Committee on Claims decide what is right and report H lo us and let us act 7 men of age, they are here men of character. Senators do not arrive That was language which fell with convincing power on my ears here without ripe mental discipline. The most of them are lawyers, over two years ago, and every Senator now on this side of the Cham and those who are not are trained men of business. Am I to be told ber was with me here at that time, except the Senator from Alabama here that the nine men on this committee, as distinguished as any [Mr. PUGH] and the Senator from Georgia on my right, [Air. BROWN.] men sitting here, have been overreached and scandalized and im Mr. THURMAN. What page does the Senator read from Y posed upon by fraudulent and fictitious testimony f Is that the kind Mr. VOORHEES. Page 1641 of the CoNGRESSIONAL RECORD, Forty of a committee you have! We thought nearly three years ago that fifth Congress, second session. I read this, I need not say, not only this committee was of a di:ffereut composition; we thought it could with respect bnt with reverence for the ability and leadership of the be trusted; and we told it to take this case and bring forward a re great Senator from Ohio, whose loss to this body none will deplore port and let us see what it was. They have done their dnty, I have more sincerely than I shall, and no one will regard it as a national no doubt conscientiously and ably. · It is said that there are ex parte affidavits in this case. So there -calamity more than I will-! desire to show that the Senat~ is not in a condition, without a square nullification, to say now that this case are; and there are twelve or fifteen witnesses who were examined orally face to face· with the committee. It is not entirely resting -shall go to the Court of Claim~ at this time, and I repeat every Sen ator within the sound of my voice on this side except the two I have upon ex parte testimony. If I understand what is meant by ex parte already designated was here and listened to the Senator from Ohio affidavits, it is affidavits taken away from the committee and filed at that time; not one of them replied to him and every one voted before them. Many men were examined and cross-examined, as the upon his suggestion. report of the evidence shows, by the committee, composed of acute, Again, on page 1643, the able and distinguished Senator from Ohio, conscientious men, learned in the law, and as able to cross·examine continuing in the debate, said: witnesses as any practitioner in the land. Is it right, then, to say that the conclusion arrived at by this careful committ.ee is upon If the Senate will give me its attention for ten minutes-! do not think I shall -occupy more-l flatter myself that I can show that this is no claim to go before a papers thrown inside the committee doors without examination 7 I court. apprehend not. * ~,urther than that I have examined this testimony with care. Many ThAt being true- of these men I know and know well. I could appeal to the Senators Continued he further down in the debate- from .Missouri as to who Mr. Carly leJ of Missouri, was-one of the most -this is simply an appeal to the justice of the Government. From what I have important witnesses in this case. I know Bela M. Hughes well. I heard I believe there is much merit in this claim. I mean from what I have heard would believe his word without oath as quick as I would any Sena this afternoon, for that is all I know about it. I think from what I have heard this afternoon there is much merit in this claim, and that the Government does tor's on this floor. There is not a higher type of man in this country. -()We somet hing to Mr. Holladay by way of indemnity for his losses. But I say it He makes out this case. Who is General James Craig, of Saint Jo., is an appeal to the equity of the Government, to its sense of justice, to its sense of formerly a member of the House from Missouri 'i I know him well. honor, and thn.t is a. question for Congress and not for a court to decide. Who is General Robert B. Mitchell Y I know him well. Others that Mr. CONKLING. Who said thatT I could name have testified. But I do not intend, nor did I mark out Mr. VOORHEES. The able and distinguished Senator from Ohio. for myself, a discussion of the facts in this case. I certainly think I need not assure him and the Senate that I read it not to involve there is something due to a committee who, under the instructions of him in the slightest inconsistency-for I do not understand him to be this body, have done their work and report~d it here. ..an advocate now of the Court of Claims for the adjudication of this A word more upon another point, and I will not detain the Senate -claim-but I read it to show that his powerful argument committed further. Much has been said here as to the question whether the the Senate at that time to a line of conduct which it would stultify Government was bound to give protection, and whather it had guar us all to retract at this time. anteed to give protection. I was struck with the reply the Senator 524 . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 11, from Vermont made to some Senator on this side-I think the Sena overturned and burned, and dead men and dead women along that. tor from New Jersey-when inquiry was made as to what was the route. I have examined this testimony from end to end. It presents. proof that the Government guaranteed protection. The Senator from a sad story of devastation, desolation, plunder, spoliation, and mur Vermont, rising partially from his seat, said "the oath of the claim der. The Government did the best it could. There is no doubt about ant; was that not enough f" as though that was a-ll. Well, the claim that. It was unable to protect him fully ; but that he was acting ant does swear it, and I do not know anything in the career of Mr. under the guarantee of protection there is no more doubt than that I Holladay that would justify me in saying I should not believe him am standing here. under oath. I do not know of any Senator who knows anything in I regret that this claim is so large as it is, because I regret that so his career that would justify him in saying that. Jam not saying that much loss and plunder and destruction occurred, but that does not a claim ought to be allowed upon the claimant's own oath; but I release me from my sense of obligation to do justice to an individual. have not known Mr. Holladay personally more than a year, though The true theory of government, Mr. President, is that equal and exact I have known of him ever since I was a boy, and I do not understand justice to individuals constitutes the best government in the world; that he bears a reputation which would justify a person in supposing and if Senators are satisfied that this man was guaranteed -protection, that his oath was not good on any point. which he did not get and suffered losses, he ought to be paid. But passing that, there is another witness who stands unimpeached, I desire to detain the Senate no further. I did not intend to talk Mr. Otis, who was long Mr. Holladay's superintendent; and he swears this much; but the matter pressed upon me in so plain and forcible positively to the arrangement with the President. And I undertake a way that I could not sayless in justification of the vote I intend to. to say to the Senate that if there was not one word of direct proof give. from any source, still it is proven that the Government guaranteed J.Ir. THURMAN. Mr. President, I do not wish to detain the Senat& protection. Why f Because there are eight military officers here fifteen minutes, perhaps not ten. The Senator from Indiana does me I have their names ; eight of them, commencing with Major-General entirely too much honor. It is true that I expressed the views I en Robert B. Mitchell, Brigadier-General James Craig, Colonel George tertained on the bill which was then before the Senate in March, 1878 ~ K. Otis, and so on, down to captains and lieutenants-who swear that which was a billreferringMr. Holladay's case to the Court of Claims, they were on that line from early in 1862, when the first depreda and I said then, knowing nothing whatsoever of the case except what tions were committed, until the close of the service in 1865, and, as I had heard from the debate in the Senate, never having read the General Crai~ swears, as General Mitchell swears, under the express testimony, never having read the report of the committee, knowing and positive mstructions of the Secretary of War to protect the great nothing whatever of the case except the statements of those who sop overland mail-route. Do you suppose the Government was doing ported the bill and who were in favor of the claim, that upon their what it had not agreed to do f Why, Mr. Holladay could not have statements Mr. Holladay had no legal claim upon the United States kept a pair of mules, a wagon, or a ranohe, from the early part of that a court of law could take cognizance of, and that he had no equi 1862, twenty-four hours at a time without the military. The Gov table claim that a court of equity could take cognizance of ; that if ernment thought it was important, to keep the overland mail-route he had any equity at all it was not that kind of equity which is ad open, to give it this protection; it agreed to do it, and the best proof judicated upon in courts and recognized by courts, that well-defined of it is that it endeavored to do it a'll the time. equity which it has been said is as well defined as the law which gov The Senator from Vermont, trying to escape from the effect of Col erns the relief that is afforded by the chancellor; and therefore I said onel Chivington's order, forgot to read further than about the middle that, taking their own stat-ements, to pass that bill and send it to the of it, and I call his attention now to the much more positive charac Court of Claims for them to adjudicate upon legal and equitable ter of that order than he gave it. Colonel Chivington says : grounds, when Mr. Holladay, on their own statement, had no legal HEADQUARTERS DISTRICT OF COLORADO, rights of which that court could take cognizance, had no equitable Denver, December 2, 1864. rights of which a chancellor could take cognizance, was to do nothing Sm: I am directed to furnish your line complete protection a~rainst hostile In at all. I said that if he had any claim-and from what was urged I dians, which I can only do by its removal from the Platte to the Cut.ofi'route. As was inclined to believe that he ha Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. We are. might have learnt something, although he was the author of a great Mr. EDMUNDS. The order of Chivington therefore has nothing policy of delay, could he have witnessed, as I have done in the two whatever to do with the proceedings of 1862, because this all took Houses, all the expedients and contrivances and suggestions, ranging place before. from mere personal convenience up to constitutional principles too .Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. Nothing whatever. large to be measured, which have been employed to postpone to some Mr. EDMUNDS. We all agree to that. other time doing an honest thing, whatever that might be, in the case Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. The committee never claimed that. of a man who has been kept dangling for years, shn.ffl.ed off first upon Mr. EDMUNDS. I hope my friend from Wisconsin does not suppose one theory and then upon another in respect of what I believe to be I am desirous of having any oontroversy with the committee. I am an honest claim. .And I wanted to know whether my friend from only trying to get such little information as may justify me in vot Missouri, fresh from new fields of conquest, as I am glad to know he ing one way or the other about this bill, and what I say is therefore is, fertile as I know he is, had been able now, at this late hour of this more to lead to explanations than to make a contest with anybody. late day, to get up a new contraption, if I may use that word without When we come to 1862 I find for my own information-and I do offense, by which still further to a more convenient season somewhere not ask anybody to act upon information that I get-an entry in the in the vast forever, Benjamin Holladay was to be postponed. But if records of the Post-Office Department which is very much like this: he really wants this information, or sven if he thinks he does, and if July 7, 1862- he has said that be will not make it the occasion of postponing or Referring to this same route business- altering what would otherwise be the action of the Senate on this Permit change of route so as to leave present road and keep along the South bill, then I will not interpose the objection which every member of Platte and Cherokee Trail via Bridger's Pass, and intersect present route at Fort the Senate has a right to interpose to the consideration of this reso Bridger, shortening the distance one hundred miles. lution. .An entry very like that, and asfarasl now remember it is literally Mr. COCKRELL. The resolution was not offered for delay. The that, appears in the records of the Post-Office Department, referring, Senator from New York bas never heard this bill discussed in the as they tell me, to this arrangement and affair, under date of 7th Senate or House in democratic Congresses, and democratic platforms July, 1862, which appears to be a permission on the part of the Post have never touched upon it directly or indirectly. master-General to whoever waa responsible for carrying on that oper Mr. CONKLING. Has this been omitted from the democratic plat- ation to change the Sweet Water route to the Bridger's Pass route, form! · and to make it what apparently is referred to in this affidavit of Mr. Mr. COCKRELL. He may have heard it discussed when the House Eaton respecting the damages of 1862, because he was referring to the and Senate were republican, and may have learned that the republi danger from Indians and so on. can party then refused to pass it either through the Senate or House; But after having a number of the employ~ of said line killed and wounded by but not since the Senate or Honse has been democratic. said Indians, and bavin~ over one hnndroo and eighty head of mules stolen and Mr. CONKLING. Will my honorable friend allow me to make a run off by Said Indians, the property ef said line- contribut.ion to history there f And I suppose the United States is bound to guard against thieves Mr. COCKRELL. I am always glad to hear contributions by the as well as force- Senator from New York. was compelled t~ abandon over five hundred miles of said road, and remove the Mr. CONKLING. I am not surprised to hear that Holladay's case line to what is known now as the Bridger's Pass and Buttes Creek route. has not been referred to in democratic platforms, because it has been That is the statement of this witness, and as I think I said before, the persistent practice of that party to omit almost anything that in the statement of some other witness, it appears here that the had merit in it. Cherokee Trail comes in as part of it. Now, if there is an identity Mr. COCKRELL. I presume the republican platforms included all between the route this witness speaks of as the one to which they that had merit. were obliged to go and the one referred to in this entry in the records Mr. CONKLING. Oh, no. of the Post-Office Department, (and which undoubtedly correspond Mr. COUKRELL. Why was not this put in that platform f ence and other memoranda there, if we could only get at them, would Mr. CONKLING. We could not include all the merits of the re explain and identify and clear up,) what do we getT If this entry publican party. .All we could do was to sample. at the time in the records of the Post-Office Department of the 7th Mr. COCKRELL. This resolution is not presented for delay. I July, 1862, is true, it appears by presumption that the application delayed this claim but once, and that was during the last days of the was for permission and ht the language of the entry a permit was last session. I did it, and I advised the friends of the bill that I was granted to the contractors to leave the contract route and keep along doing it, and I did not intend it should pass then, because it could the South Platte, and Cherokee Trail and Bridger's Pass to Fort not be fairly considered. It can be fairly considered now. I desire Bridger which appears to be as I say-perhaps I am mistaken-the to throw no obstruction in the way of the passage of this bill ; bat I same route that this witness speaks of as in respect to which there do desire the information this resolution calls for, and I have been moval bad been so extremely detrimental to these people, and which trying to get it ever since the bill was before the Senate a year ago. the committee think ought to be paid for, while the ground on which Mr. CONKLING. Take your order. the application was granted or the effect of it, whatever construction The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection to the resolu you put on it was to make the route one hundred miles shorter than tion f the other which the contract required. Mr . .ANTHONY. I make a verbal criticism on the resolution. I .All that may be capable of some explanation, for, as I said before, think it bad better be in the usual form "that the Postmaster-Gen I am not making a contest with aBybody, but I am trying to say eral be directed." It reads " directed and required," which would what ! .feel, that tbiB case is in no condition now for the Senate to seem to imply that there might be some objection on his part which determine it finally one way or the other. required a special mandate from us. Mr. CONKLING. Mr. President, I did mean to say a word about Mr. COCKRELL. I have no objection to the modification sug- this case; but my friend from Illinois [Mr. DAVIS] is so much fatigued gested. at the prospect of my saying anything that I will yield to the Senator The PRESIDING OFFICER. The resolution will be so modified. from .Missouri [Ur. COIJKRELIJ] to make a motion to adjourn, which he The resolution, as modified, was agreed to. says be wants to make. Mr. COCKRELL. Now I move that the Senate adjourn. Mr. COCKRELL. Preliminary to that I ask that tbiB resolution be The motion wa-a agreed to; and (at five o'clock and two minutes passed simply ca;ling for information ; it will not delay the proceed p. m.) the Senate adjourned. ings in this case: llesolved, That the Postmaster-General be directed and required to furnish to the Senate as quickly as possible copies of all contra~J-ts, orders, changes, correspond ence, proceeliings, and actions concerning the carrying of mails across the conti nent between the 1st days of January, 1857 and 1867, on what was commonlv called the "overland route," including copies of all entries on the books of the Depart HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. ment touching the service, the changes, payments, increase of payments, &c., and the full amounts paid to any and all persons on account of such contracts, services, TUESDAY, changes, increases, extra compensations, &c. January 11, 1881. Mr. CONKLING. .As that is strictly within the motion which I The House met at twelve o'clock m. Prayer by Rev. SAMUEL yielded to the Senator from Missouri to make, I have a right to ask DOMER, D. D. him a. question about it. I yielded to the Senator to make a motion The Journal of yesterday was read and approved. to adjourn ; and this being evidently a part of that motion, [laugh ter,] I wish to inquirewbetherthisresolution is to be madethefonnd ALLEGED ABUSE OF FRANKING PRIVILEGE. ation of further delay in the Holladay case. Mr. BLACKBURN. Mr. Speaker, there was a resolution offered by Mr. COCKRELL. Not at all; under no circumstances. the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. MoNEY] some time ago calling Mr. CONKLING. So that the Senator will not ask any different upon the Postmast-er-General for a report-- direction of it if this resolution pass f The SPEAKER. The resolution to which the gentleman from Ken Mr. COCKRELL. Not at all; I simply desire this information. tucky refers was offered by the gentleman from Indiana, [Mr. CAL Mr. CONKLING. Now I will tell the Senator why I ask the ques KINs,] but reported to the House by the chairman of the Committee tion. It was a curious measure to me of senatorial ingenuity. I on the Post-Office and Post-Roads, [Mr. MoNEY.] suppesed that what a democratic platform four or five years ago Mr. BLACKBURN. The resolution which was reported from the called " the resources of statesmanship" bad been exhausted in de Committee on the Post-Office and Post·Roads calls for information vices and inventions to postpone this case. I have thought that Fabius from the Postmaster-General as to alleged abuses in the franking 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 527 privilege in the transmission of matter through the mails over the Mr. HUMPHREY. The reason why I wished to insist on my frank of members of the Senate and Honse of ·Representatives, and amendment was because I thought we could get a report sooner from as I understand that there is a very voluminous reply now on the the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads than from a special desk of the Speaker from the Postmaster-General in reference to the committee. subject, I ask the adoption of the following resolution which I send The SPEAKER. The Chair heard, even at this distance, the con to the Clerk's desk, and that the communication of the Postma-ster versation between the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. BROWNE] and General be sent to this select committee. the gentleman from Wisconsin, [Mr. HUMPHREY,] in which the gen The Clerk read as :(ollows: . tleman from Indiana said there was an impropriety in the Post-Office Whereas char~es have been made that the laws of the United States have been Committee considering the subject; and the Chair supposed the gen violated bv the sending through the mails under the frank of members of the tleman from Wisconsin had acceded to the suggestion of the gentle House of Representatives and of the Senate of matter not authorized to be sent man from Indiana. He certainly did not pres3 his amendment. without the payment of postage: Resolved, That a select committee of five be appointed by the Speaker of this Mr. HUMPHREY. I do not insist on the amendment. Honse to examine into said cha.rsres and all other abnst>s that may be brought to SECTIONS 2:504 AND 29i0 OF REVISED STATUTES. their attention connected with the transmission of lett~ra, documents, or other matter th;rou~h the mails of the United States; that such committee shall have Mr. 1\IcCOOK. I ask the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. W ARYER] to power to sit during the sessions of the Hom.e. to send for persons, papers, and withdraw the call for the regular order, that I may introduce a bill records, to administer oaths, and to report to this House by bill or otherwise its for reference. findings and conclusions at any time. The expense of said investigation shall be paid out of the contingent fund of the House. Mr. WARNER. I witbdra.w the call for the regular order for that purpose. . Mr. BLACKBURN.' I simply desire, Mr. Speaker, to move the Mr. McCOOK, by unanimous consent, introduced (by request) a bill adoption of that resolution, coupled with the request that I shall (H. R. No. 6845) to amend sections 2504 and 2970 of the Revised Stat not be assigned to duty on that special committee. utes; which was read a first and second time, referred to the Committee Mr. BROWNE. In the absence of my colleague,. [Mr. CALKINs,] on Ways and Means, and ordered to be printed. to whom this subject-matter more properly belongs, I insisted when the communication of the Postmaater-General was being presented MARYS. W. HARRIS. to the Honse that it should be read or that it should be printed in Mr. BALLOU, by unanimous consent, introduced a bill (H. R. No. the RECORD. Since that time I have been ad vised that the report 6846) granting a pension to MaryS. W. Harris ; which was read a reflects upon the conduct of certain members of the Honse and mem first and second time, referred to the Committee on Invalid Pensions, bers of the Senate. The investi~ation has been e3J parte. Affidavits, and ordered to be printed. as I am advised, are included m the report. No opportunity was UNCLADIED DIVIDEli."DS OF NATIONAL B~~KS. given for the cross·examination of the witnesses, and it strikes me Mr. PRICE introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6847) to provide for the that it woulcl be unjust that t.his matter should be made of record distribution of unclaimed dividends among the creditors of national until the fullest opportunity has been given to the accused for the banks; which was read a first and second time, l'eferred to the Com inspection of the papers and the cross-examination of the witnesses. mittee on Banking and Currency, and ordered to be printed. I am therefore, so far as I am personally concerned, entirely will ORDER OF BUSThTESS. ing that this whole subject should be referred to a special committee, that there may be the fullest and amplest investigation before it shall Mr. COFFROTH. I ask unanimous consent to offer the resolution be made of public record. I am willing, therefore, that it may go to which I send to the desk. Mr. WARNER. I call for the regular order. ~ special committee, and that the report be printed for the use of the committee, with the hope that the investigation will be at once begun, Mr. COFFROTH. I ask the gentleman to hear the resolution read. and that the committee's report will be made at an early day. It is to assign time for the consideration of business of the Commit Mr. HUMPHREY. I move to amend the resolution so that the sub tee on Invalid Pensions. ject shall go to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. I Mr. WARNER. I most insist on the regular order. think that is tbe proper committee it should go to. The SPEAKER. The regular order is demanded, which is the call Mr. BROWNE. There are objections I need not state to its going of committees for reports. to the Post-Office Committee. The investigation may possibly impli Mr. FINLEY. I move to dispense with the call of committees for cate some gentlemen who belong to that committee. to-day. Mr. HUMPHREY. That does not make any difference. The SPEAKER. That will require a two-thirds vote. Mr. BROWNE. I think it does make some difference. The motion of Mr. FINLEY was agreed to upon a division-ayes 102, Mr. HUMPHREY. Not at all. It gives them the entire advan noes not counted; two-thirds voting in favor thereof. tage, and I am willing they should have all the advantage, of every ENROLLED BILLS SIG~ED. doubt. Mr. ALDRICH, of illinois, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, Mr. COX. I desire to say one word. The gentleman from Indiana reported that they had examined and found truly enrolled bills of [Mr. BROWNE] has stated that no names have been published in con· the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: nection with this charge of evasion of the post-office laws by members A bill (S. No. 105) for the relief of John Gault, jr., late a major of of Congress. I have seen in the newspapers the name of Senator W AL- · the Twenty-eighth Regiment of Kentucky Volunteer Infantry; LAQE and my own as being guilty of having cheated the post-office A bill (S. No. 323) for the relief of the Winnebago Indians in Wis revenue. Publications were made before the elec,tion to that effect. consin, and to aid them to obtain subsistence by agricultural pur I :made inquiry, traced the matter out with t.he aid of the postmaster at suits, and to promote their civilization; New York, and received a thorough exoneration, so far as his investi A bill (S. No. 549) for the relief of Samuel I. Gustin; gation could go, as to myself. I have authorized no one to sign any A bill (S. No. 814) for the relief of the legal representative of such documents connected with the campaign. This committee will so Henry M. Shreve, deceased ; and ascertain. A bill (S. No. 1353) for the relief of N. & G. Taylor Company. After toe publication in theNew York Times of the exonerating let INDIAN APPROPRIATIO~ BILL. ter of Mr. Postmaster James, it seems to come with an ill grace from Mr. WELLS. I move that the Honse' now resolve itself into Com this Post-Office Department, this clerk to the President, who most have mittee of the Whole on the state of the Union for the purpose of fur been advised to send in here to this Honse the names of members as ther considering the Indian appropriation bill. guilty of something against the Post-Office Department and its laws The motion waB agreed to. and revenues. I want to say in advance of any investigation that The Honse accordingly resolved itself into Committee of the Whole, there are perhaps two sides to this investigation · and if other mem Mr. ToWNSHE:r-."1>, of Illinois, in the chair. bers of Congress, or if Senators, are no more invoived in it than I am, The CHAIRMAN. The House is now in Committee of the Whole then there must be some device, trick, or scheme to make some capi for the purpose of further considering the bill (H. R. No. 6730) mak tal against members of one party. I hope the resolution will pass. ing appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of the The question being taken on the resolution, it wa-s agreed to. Indian Department, and for fulfilling treat.y stipulations with various Mr. BLACKBURN moved to reconsider the vote by which the reso Indian tribes, for the year ending June 30, 1882, and for other pur lution was adopted ; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be poses. The Clerk will report the pending paragraph. laid on the table. The Clerk read as follows : The latter motion was agreed to. That all laws and parts of laws creating or authorizing the commission of ten There being no objection, the letter of the Postmaster-General was citizens provided for in the act of April 10, 1869, be, and the same are hereby, referred to the select committee. repealed. Mr. WARNER. I call for the regular order. The CHAIRMAN. The pending question is upon the motion of The SPEAKER. The regular order is the call of committees for the gentleman from New York, [Mr. 1-I.ISCOCK,] to strike out the para reports. graph just read and to insert in lieu thereof what the Clerk will now Mr. HUMPHREY. I desire to ask the Chair what became of the read. amendment I offered, and which I insisted upon. The Clerk read as follows: The SPEAKER. The Chair did not hear the gentleman from Wis For the expenses of the commission of citizens servin~ without compensation,. consin insist; but the Chair never takes advantage of a gentleman, appoiJlted by the President under the provisions of the fourth section of the aci and will open the question again, notwithstanding the reconsideration. of AprillO, 1869, $10,000. Mr. HUMPHREY. I am not particular about it. Mr. POEHLER. I rise to a point of order on that amendment. The SPEAKER. The Chair submitted the motion in as loud a The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. voice as he could employ. Mr. POEHLER. It increases expenditures beyond the amount 528 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 11, proposed by the bill. I do not think it necessary to make any argu Mr. POEHLER. :Mr. Chairman, notwithstanding all that haa been ment on that point of order. said by the gentleman who haa just spoken, [Mr. HISCOCK,] I can see Mr. HISCOCK. The fact that the amendment increases the amount no more use for this commission in the Interior Department than for which the bill provides for does not render it liable to any point of a like commission in every other Department in this Government. 'Order. If the Interior Department is not competent, without the aid of a Mr. BLOUNT. That there may be no misunderstanding on the commission of this kind, to let contracts, to examine goods, and to part of the Chair, I desire to state that I suppose the point of order see whether supplies furnished for the Indians are proper in quality is that the amendment changes existing law and increases expendi and chea-p enough in price, then we had better turn that Department ture. The fact is that the appropriation proposed by the amendment over to this commission. I do not see why we need the supervision is in exact accordance with the law authorizing this commission. of this commission a.t the different agencies, for we have already five The clause in the bill, which is not yet law, is intended to repeal the regular inspectors. Jaw authorizing this commission. The object of my friend from New It is possible that the Secretary of the Interior may not object to York, [Mr. HiscOCK,] as I understand it, is to strike out that pro continuing this commission ; probably he may advise it, as he would vision of the bill and to insert in lieu thereof a provision making an perhaps dislike to say that he did not wish the services of these gen appropriation to execute existing law. Istatethat in fairness to the tlemen. But I have looked over this matter very carefully, and I Chair, before he makes his ruling upon the point of order. have seen no benefits to the service arising from this commission, The CHAIRMAN. Can the gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. POEH- whose members know no more about the needs of the Department LER] point to any law which this amendment if adopted will change f than the inspectors. I hope that this amendment will not prevail. Mr. POEHLER. I supposed the law was changed laat year. I think the expenditure is useless. Mr. BLOUNT. It was not. It has been said that disclosures heretofore made in re(J'ard to the The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of opinion that the point of order administration of a former Commissioner of Indian Aff~ were due is not well taken, for the reason that the proposed amendment will principally to this commission. !(ow, I have been informed-whether not change any existing law, but is to execute a law already in exist correctly or not I am unable to say-that the man who was clerk to ence. this commission is now in the same business for which that Commis Mr. POEHLER. Then I hope the amendment will not prevail, for sioner of Indian Affairs was discharged. the reason-- Mr. WELLS. Mr. Chairman, I move pro forma to amend the amend The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Minnesota [l\Ir. POEHLER 1 ment by striking out the last word. It will be remembered that the will suspend until the gentleman from New York, [Mr. HISCOCK,] law creating this commission was passed some ten or eleven years ago. who is entitled to the floor, has submitted such remarks as he may Since that time Congress has provided, as stated by the gentleman -desire upon the pending amendment. from Minnesota, [Mr. POEHLER,] five inspectors, who in part, if not Mr. POEHLER. I beg pardon; I did not know the gentleman from entirely, take the place of this commission. They not only examine New York [Mr. HiscocK] desired to. be heard. the accounts, but they visit from time to time the agencies of the dif Mr. HISCOCK. The provisions of law which the pending bill as erent Indian tribes. Last year we inserted in our Indian appropria reported to this House by the Committee on Appropriations proposes tion bill this clause: to repeal are very important provisions. It proposes the abolition of No part of the money appropriated by this act shall be paid or in any way uaed -thls commission of ten which was created by an act of Congress. for the payment of the salaries or expenses of the Indian commission provided for Their powers are of a supervisory nature, and will be found in sec by section 2Q-29 of tlre Revised Statutes of the United States. tions 2041 and 2042 of the Revised Statutes, which are as follows: As we had thus provided last year by law that no money appro SEC. 2041. The board of commissioners menUoned in section 2039 shall supervise priated for the Indian service should be used for this commission, the .nil expenditures of money appropriated for the benefit of Indians within the limits Committee on Appropriations instructed me to :report this bill with .of the United States; and shallmspect ~ B~~ds purchased for Indians, in connec tion with the Commissioner of Indian ·rs, whose duty it shall be to consult a provision repealing the law creating the commission. Besides, Mr. the commission in making purchases of such goods. Chairman, upon an examination of this appropriation bill at a point SEc. 2042. Any member of the board of Indian commissioners is empowered to a few clauses beyond the paragraph we are now considering, it will investigate all contracts, expenditures, and acconnts in connection with the Indian service, and shall have access to all books and papers relating thereto in any GQv be found that we provide for inspectors of goods purchased· in New -ernment office; but the examination of vouchers and accounts by the executive York under bids, and that these inspectors, under the direction of the .committee of said board shall not be a prerequisite of payment. Indian Department, have control and management of this matter. It will be observed that this board is simply supervisory; simply a Hence I can see very little use of this commission at the present time watch, or, if you please so to term it, a police over the goods that are aside from securing to its clerk a salary of $3,000 ; to its assistant to be furnished and over the accounts of the Indian Bureau. I am clerk a salary of $1,200; besides an expenditure of $1,500 a year for not aware that any complaint has ever been made against these com office rent. missioners. This proposition to repeal the law does not come from a To be sure the members of this commission receive no salary; but .committee which has investigated the necessity of the continuance we are appropriating this money to pay their expenses-expenses for -of this commission. I know of no allegation being made before any what Y For the purpose of visiting different agencies f No, sir; be committee or anywhere else against the efficiency of these commis cause we have inspectors for that purpose. We are paying the ex aioners, or against the good work which they have performed. penses of this commission for visiting Washington and looking over This board has survived the annual raids which have been made accounts which are already examined and audited by a paid officer of upon every branch of the Government in the interest of economy, the this Government.. In my association with the officers of the Indian cutting down of salaries and the wiping out of clerkships, until now, Bureau I have found them very correct, just, and honorable men. I not in the interest of any such raids as that, without coming from a have confidence in that department. I have seen and examined in committee reporting any reasons for its non-continuance, it is pro person some of their accounts, and I do not feel that we need to'have a posed to repeal the law which created this commission, and thus to watch-dog over them any more than over any other department of abolish these commissioners. I for one see no good reason for that. this Government. I feel that the appropriation for this purpose is a As will be remembered by every member of this House, this com useless expenditure of money, and is embarrassing to a bureau which mission has performed at least one important service, that is the de is now running satisfactorily. velopment of the affairs which existed under the Commissioner of Mr. HOOKER. J\.fr. Chairman, I was very glad when this bill was Indian Affairs, Mr. Hayt. Whatever there was to be divulged there, reported from the Committee on Appropriations that, after the war whatever was found out there, whatever light was thrown upon the which has been made upon this most extraordinary appropriation, the manner in which the affairs of that bureau were conducted by him, committee had at last consented in their wisdom to omit the annual is due e!ltirely to this commission. appropriation of $10,000 for the payment of the peace commissioners As I have already said, no reason is given, as I understand it. by the as they are called. I presume the Committee of the Whole under -chairman of the sub-committee having this bill in charge why this stands that this commission was created under the act of 1869, as I board should be wiped out of existence. On the contrary, the Secre have had occasion to say herf'tofore, for a specific purpose, namely, to tary of the Interior is decided in his expression of opinion that it co-operate with the General of the Army and other persons designated shall be continued. I will supplement my remarks upon this ques for the purpose of meeting what was then· supposed to be the immi tion by asking to have read a letter which I have received from the nent danger of an Indian outbreak. I have heretofore taken the Secretary of the Interior. position, as I do now, that as soon as the objects of the act of 1869 The Clerk read as follows: were accomplished this commission was functus officio and no longer DEPARTME:XT OF THE il.--rERIOR, had any legal existence. But, strange to say, the Committee on Ap Washington, D. C., JanuanJ 11, 1881. propriations, running in the groove which had been established, con DEAR Sm: In answer to your inquiry I beg leave to say that the Board of Indian tinued these appropriations from year to yearhfor during a series of Commissioners has proved of ~reatusefulness in the management of Indian Affairs. 1869 $10,000 They have been rendering very great service in superintending, together with the years from to the present time as been appropriated Commissioner of Indian Affairs, the annnallettings of contracts for supplying the annually-not for the payment of commissioners, for they, we were Indians with provisions and annuities, in the examination of annuity goods as to told, were philanthropic gentlemen who had great love for the Indi their quality, in tbeexaminaton of aecounts, and in making inspections of agencies ans, and were animated by no desire for compensation, gentlemen and inquiries into the different branches of the Indian service. In all these things I have found the board very useful, and believe that the sum that has been appro who would have rejected scornfully any offer of pay. I hope that priated for many years to defray its expenses bas been money expended to the great the gentleman from New York who bas offered this amendment does advantage of the service. I should be glad to have the board kept in existence and not speak by authority for any member of that commission, for when the appropriation for defraying its expenses renewed. in former Congresses it has been my fortune to oppose this appropria Very truly, yours, C. SCHURZ. tion and to characterize it as it justly deserved I have always been Ron. FRAJ."K HiscoCK, told that this was a commission of philanthropic gentlemen who not HO'UIIe of Representatives. only were giving their services to the Indians and to the country 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 529 without compensation, but would scorn to take ·compensation; that other Department, which has such extraordinary powers conferred the $10,000 annually appropriated since le69 (and I call the attention upon it as the Interior Department has in regard to this Indian Bureau f of the gentleman from New York who offered the amendment to this It has been this lavish appropriation of money, these indefinite and fact) was simply to defray their expenses; that these gentlemen did uncertain sums voted to it, which have given rise to the fact that one not want any compensation, but were doing this work purely from Commissioner of Indian Affairs has been hurled from his position by pbi1antbropica.l motives. The Committee on Appropriations, I say, the Secretary of the Interior because he was speculating in the funds for eleven years bas appropriated $10,000 a year to defray their ex- which were confided to him for Indian purposes. penses, not to compensate them at all; and yet the gentleman from rHere the hammer fell.] New York offers his amendment, you will see, for the expenses of a Mr. HAWLEY. Mr. Chairman, I suppose it is within the recollec- commission of citizens serving without compensation. Ah I servin,g tion of us all-for it was notorious-that for many years there were without appropriation-when and where Y Have they not had $10,000 constant scandals concerning the purchases made for the Indians. every year to pay their traveling expenses f They professed, and It was a matter of general comment throughout the country and ia under the very terms of the act of 1869 they were, to serve without the newspapers. It was alleged that rotten blankets were furnished compensation. It was never alleged that they were to be compensated to them, diseaaed pork was bought, and everything supplied to them in any way whatever. in the way of clothing and provisions was below the standard re- I say, sir, we have driven the Appropriations Committee-immov- quired. I have for several years past heard but very little of that ableandunrepentantiutbeirsinsandintheircrimes-wehavedriven kind of complaint. There has been a general improvement in the that Appropriations Committee to omit from the Indian appropria- administration of thB whole of the Indian affairs, especially in this tion bill this year this appropriation of $10,000 to compensate this department. I credit some of this to the general excellence of the peace commission for traveling expenses. officials connected with the department, but I am bound to give a But now the gentleman from New Yol'k comes up and asks on an very considerable measure of credit for the improvement in this mat amendment in his own handwriting, and in his own words, when the ter of supplies to the creation of this board. law by its terms declares these gentlemen were to serve without com- I am willing to trust the judgment of the gentlemen engaged i1L. pensation-the gentleman from New York asks that $10,000 shall be administering the Indian affairs, who say that this board has been paid to them. I commend the Appropriations Committee, and it is and is of great nse and service. not often my good fortune to have the opportunity of commending I do not quite comprehend the allusions of the gentleman from that committee; but I do commend the policy and the economy and Mississippi to the compensation of the commission. By the original the justice and the good sense of the Appropriations Committee in statute creating the Indian commission they were to serve without omitting this provision from the present Indian appropriation bill. pay. They have done so. It is not even pretended that they have They are hard to convince, they are stubborn in their notions, but we ever been paid or sought to be paid for the service, and nobody now have driven them at last to this point; and I hope they will main- desires to pay them. tain the bill and that my friend from Missouri who bas it in charge They are gentlemen of high character and standing. They are of wlll rise and support, in opposition to the gentleman from New York, different pursuits in life, familiar with the tli.ffdrent specialties con the just measure of the committee and say that these gentlemen who nected with this department. They pay close attention to the various have always professed they were serving without compensation shall purchases for the Indians; and it is, a.s I have said, beyond question not now come in and ask that they shall be compensated. that the supplies for the Indians under this supervision are far better The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman's time has expired. • than at any previous time. :Mr. HAWLEY. I hope the gentleman will withdraw this amend- If I were to designate a system for myself I should say that I know ment. of no reason why all the provisions for the Indians might not be pur- Mr. REAGAN. I desire to take the :floor and yield my time to the chased under the control and management of the officers who pur- gentleman from Mississippi. chase so well fer the Army. And the same may be said of the cloth- The CHAIRMAN. The Chair hears no objection. • ing. The standard is uniformly good. The clothing and provisions Mr. HOOKER. I thank the gentleman from Texas for his conr- for the Army are excellently well chosen. There is no complaint as tesy. to their quality. The rations are good, and both rations and clothing I regret, Mr. Chairman, not having the act of 1869 here, but it will are cheap, purchased at the lowest rates that they can be had in the be remembered as quoted in the debates during the last Congress that market. Why, therefore, there cannot be added to the duties of these that commission was created for a specific purpose. It was to be officers who purchase the clothing and provisions for the Army the composed of ten citizens who were to serve under the terms of the duties of purchasing for the Indians I have never quite understood. act itself without compensation. For ten or eleven longyears.$10,000 But as the law has not been changed in that respect, I wish to main have been reported each year by the Committee on Appropriations tain the law that is now in force providing for this commll;sion. for their expenses. This year wben I looked over the Indian bill I :Mr. HOOKER. Will the gentleman from Connecticut permit me was gratified to find, driven I suppose to conviction, the Committee to IUlk him a question f on Appropriations have omitted the appropriation. :Mr. HAWLEY. Oh, yes. Mr. SCALES. I have the law here, and will read it if my friend Mr. HOOKER. I wish to ask the gentleman if he will favor an desires it.. . amendmel!lt which I intend to offer to transfer the wh'ole matter to Mr. HOOKER. I will be obliged to my friend if be will read it to the War Departmentf the House. Mr. HAW LEY. I cannot sa.y until I ha.>e read it. I am in general Mr. SCALES. The provision in the fourth section is as follows: in favor of turning more of the work over to the Army. I believe, And for the purpose of enabling the PreRident to execute the powers conferred as I have said, that thes~ purchases can he made equally as well, per by this act he is hereby authorized, at his discretion, to organize a board of com- haps better, by the purchasing officers of the Army. But as this has missioners, to consist of not more than ten persons, to be selected by him from not been done, as the law now stands I firmly believe, from personal men eminent for their intelligence and philanthropy, to serve without pecuniary inquiry and from the knowledge which I have of some of these gen compensation, who may, under his direction, exercise join& control with the Sec- tlemen. that they are of great service to the country in the manaO'e retary of the Interior over the disbursement of the appropriations made by this ment of this -l't'air. They do great serVI'ce. They gt' ve a lnrge poart act or any part thereof that the President may designate; and to pay the neces- C:U.L< 3 .., sary expenses of transp~rta.ti?n, sub~istence, and clerk hire of said commissioners of their time aad services to the Government without compensation. while actually engaged m sru.d semce there is hereby appropriated, out of any They undoubtedly save tho Government large sums of money by mak money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of $25,000, or 80 much ing economical purchases, and the Secretary desires to continue the thereof as may be necessary. board. Mr. HOOKER. It will be observed by the terms of the act which Of course they cannot work without expending some money. They has been read by my friend from North Carolina these commissioners cannot travel and supervise t.bese supplies without incurring some ex were to serve without compensation, and that they were to serve un- pense upon railroads and at hotels. That is all the Government is der the terms of that act for the specific purpose for which the law called upon to pay. It ought to be paid, for they do a great public was passed. And in making my argument against the appropriation service, and I believe it is desirable to have the commission continued. of the committee last year, in which the:r appropriated, running in I hope it will be done. the same groove with their predecessors, $10,000 for the expenses of Mr. SCALES. Mj. Chairman, I trust that this amendment will not this commission, I endeavored to convince the committee then as I do prevail. The House has been already informed that this act was now that was an unwise expendi tnre of the public money. passed in 1869. This board was then appointed for the purposes spec- And, Mr. Chairman, allow me to say that with regard to Indian ified in that act. Afterward it grew up and became attached to each. affairs, as with regard to the ordinary a1l'airs of the Government, we appropriation bill as a fungus growth. It should not have been there, have too much government-we havo too many officers, too many and its history shows the importance of the committee putting no men who are paid for performing services. We have the bill of this new legislation on an appropriation bill until it has been well con committee, an~ when you read it throu~h you will find it quadruples sidered and gives unquestioned promise of good results. t~e compensatiOn of these employes. It makes an appropriation of In 1869, at the time that this act was passed, there was a cry, and a 81X hundred and odd thousand dollars in two clauses of the bill with- just cry, throughout the country of fraud in the administration of the out a particle of specification how it shall be applied. I demonstrated Indian affairs. This was an effort and an abortive effort made for the to t~e coml!littee yesterday that nuder the incidental expenditure for purpose of correcting that state of things. The effect of it was, in Indian affaus you expended $178,000 without any specific provision stead of benefiting the administration of Indian affairs, to damage i\ of how t~e funds should be disbursed. . in my view most materially by dividing up the responsibility which And wll_l you ~How me to say further, Mr. Cha1rmau, (and I hope should have rested alone upon the head of the Department. the committee Will hear what I. have to say,) that there is no De- They called to the assistance of the Secretary of the Interior a partment of the Government, neither the Army nor the Navy nor any l board of commissioners, consisting of ten. men, whose duty it was to XI-34 530 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 11, aid him in making contracts and disbursing money. Thesemen were gress, created the commission for a wise purpose, as it was admitted -without responsibility. They received no salary. They had no spe on the floor of this Honse, and it was a. well-known fact, tha.t there cific do ties to perform. They were selected from fifty millions of peo was a great deal of scandal in regard to the management of our In ple and invited here as an act of courtesy and compliment to overlook dian affairs, especially in the purchase of the goods t.hat were supplied this bureau. They wanted no salary, but accepted an appropriation to the Indians, both as regards the quality and the quantity. I pre of $25,000 as expenses. This money was spent by them in coming to sume the object was to create a supervising board that should see no Washington, and in traversing the whole Indian country in Pollman injustice was done to these Indians. And it seems to have bad the palace cars, with as many employes around them as were suitable to efl"ect of correcting what was then complained of, the gross frauds the dignity of their position. This was essential to their work, and in the supplies to the Indians. · this part of it was not usually neglected. As to tile gentlemen who composed this board, I know not a sinale And yet, sir, after ten years of service, and the expenditure of near one of tbem. I apprehend they are gentlemen of the highest ch0 ar two hundred thousand dollars, the gentleman from New York who acter. I have never known and have never heard that they desire proposes this amendment is able from the whole history of the past to bold this position. They hold their places without compensation, to cite but one single instance in which he says they have benefited and it would hardly be expected that these gentlemen who are vol the service. And what was that'? It was the discovery, he says, unteering their services in so goo«l a cause as this should have been which these Indian commissioners made as to the improprieties in the willing, in traveling from point to pointancl making these purchases, conduct of the late Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Let me say to to pay their own expenses and to pay the expenses of tbe employes that gentleman what I said here a year ago on the same subject, that necessary in this work. But, Mr. Chairman, I believe the time has while we did have the assistance of these gentlemen-and it would come when perhaps we can dispense with them. The complaints to have been stran~e if they bad failed to gi"\e it to us-when the mat which I have referred are now not so frequent as they were in the ter was talked of in Washington as well as at the agency, information past• . was conveyed to me as chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs. My friend from Mississippi [Mr. HOOKER] made the statement upon It was sent to the head of the Department, and I believe would have this floor that from year to year the Committee on Appropriations been prosecuted and fully investigated if there had been no such com have incorporated into this bill the sum of $10,000 for the purpose of mission. I will not detract from their credit1 bot do say that they paying this commission. Now, if my friend will torn back to the In are not entitled to exclusive credit. Then, srr, the only thing that di;:ln appropriation bill of last year, he will find that although we did the gentleman from New York has urged in justification of so great report in favor of paying the expenses of the commission, yet we an expenditure falls to the ground. proposed to reduce the amount to $7,000. Upon his motion that sum· But that is not all, :Mr. Chairman. Let us see what is the state of wat:J stricken out, and no provision whatever was made in the bill for things w~ have. My opinion is, and I think every intelligent man defraying the expenses of this commission. The bill a9 it passed will concur with me, that we have here an illustration of the old this Honse and went to the Senate did not contain any provision for ~age, a homely bot a true one, that too many cooks spoil the broth. that purpose. . You have your Secretary of the Interior; you have your Commis When the Senate came to consider the bill it amended it by in sioner of Indian Affairs, whose whole time is devoted to that service; serting a clause making an appropriation for that purpose. The yon have ftve inspectors who are paid, and whose whole time is also question became a matter for the committees of conference, and in to be devoted to the Indian ; you have in addition seventy-eight the conferenc~ between the two Houses, although the Senate con agents, and you have superadded to these two special agents ap ferees for some time insisted upon retaining the amount necessary to pointed by the Secretary of the Interior. And all of these are paid pay the expenses of this commission, they finally gave way and the by the Government to look after the Indians and see to it that there bill was passed without that provision. are no frauds and corruptions in this service. Afterward, when the sundry civil appropriation bill came to be 1 The object of this board is to prevent fra.ud. And they not only passed, it went to the Senate without any provision in it for paying created it, but they said, "We cannot rely upon the agents we ap the expenses d'f this commission. The Senate amended it by potting point, and therefore we will delegate the appointment of agents to in $10,000 for that purpose. The House disagreed to the amendment the religions denominations." Aud it is a. fact to-day, a fact in vio and the bill went to a committee of conference. The conferees on lation of the spirit of the Constitution, that the a~ents of the Indian the part of the House finally agreed to retain the $10,000 for the pay Bureau are appointed, not by the President directly, but by religious ment of the expenses of these commissioners. That is the way in denominations who control the agencies and exclude all others. They which the· appropriation got into our legislation of the last session. have their own em11loyesfrom the denominations, and the resalt of the The gentleman will see by that statement that the Committee on whole thing is to lmild up secta, if anything, amon:J the Indians, and Appropriations is not so entirely responsible as he has declared. the Government is the paymaster for this work, whiCh should be done The gentfeman himself submitted the motion at the last session of by the churches. Congress to strike out the clause making this appropriation. The Now, I say the experience of the past has shown that this erganiz~ Committee on Appropriations now adopts the idea, following tho tion is useless, that the money spent upon it is money spent without lead of the House at the last session. Yet the gentleman is very on justification and without any adequate return to the Government. happy at what we have done, and makes a long speech to prove that There is one thing, however, I do not understand. ~bese commis we ought to have done exactly what be wants done. That is the sionerS are generally gentlemen of high intelligence and virtue; and whole history of the matter. The provision is now left out of the it is strange to me, it is passing strange, that gentlemen of so much bill, and we propose to repeal the law authorizing the appointment wealth and so much business of their own should seek so persist of this commission. . ently and continuously this position. At ·the last session, sir, we [Here the hammer felV] 1 lopped it off. Mr. CANNON, of Illinois. I desire to oppose the amendment. Mr. HISCOCK. Will the gentleman :from North Carolina allow me Mr. CHITTENDEN. I desire to advocate the amendment. to inquire of him if be means to say that these gentlemen have per Mr. CANNON, of Illinois. I give way to the gentleman from New sistently sought for this position t I certainly desire to say for myself York, [Mr. CHITTENDEN.] there is not a member of that commission that I know personally. .Mr. CHITTENDEN. It is impossible for me in five minutes to give Not one of them ever spoke to me, and I do not believe there is a to the committee a.ll the information that 1 desire to give them; I member of this Honse to whom any member of that commission hae could not do it in half an hour. ever spoken on this subject. In the last year of President Buchanan's administration I made a Mr. SCALES. I hope this does not come out of my time. resolute attempt to break down what bad been a. gross scandal and Mr. Chairman, I would not do any of these gentlemen injustice ; I monopoly in New York in furnishing the annual supply of Indian do not mean to do that. I mean, however, to draw inferences from goods connected with my branch of trade. I sent my junior partner the facts before this Honse connected with the history of this trans "to Washington and told him to bid for the contract at the risk of a loss action. When the la!;!t appropriation bill was before this House we of $25,000, for the purpose of getting inside of the rottenness of the old struck out every dollar of appropriation for this purpose. We struck system, whereby one firm had succeeded in furnishing for nearly out the clause itself. The bill went to the Senate, and the Senate twenty-five years supplies for the northwestern and other tribes of -put it back. On a committee of conference the clause was put in Indians. but without any appropriation. How is it, then, these gentlemen are The Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Ja.cob Thompson, of Mississippi, in office to-day receiving the same appropriation t This House ex was compelled to award me the contract because I upderbid in bulk pressed its disapprobation. The House and Senate cut out the appro the old firm. What Wad the result f In the first plooe, I paid $5,000 priation after a fnll and fair conference through its committees and to lawyers to see to it that I got the contract I was fairly entitled to. the bill became the law. The next thing after this defeat was to pot This was a waste of money, for Mr. Thompson manifested on my first it on the sundry civil bill-- . interview with him a ftxed and honorable purpose to do right. . [Here the hammer fell.] · , What was the next result f After Secretary Thompson awarded Mr. SINGLETON, of Mississippi. .As an humble member of the the contract to me, the Indian Commissioner (now dead) told the Committee on Appropriations, which my distinguished colleague :from old New York firm that he "would ftx Mr. Cm'ITENDEN before he Mississippi [Mr. HooKER] so warmly commended for its notions of got through this business;'' and be did fix me. By delaying the economy, I think it due to that committee I should say one word in schedules he made me pay for one thing four freights from England response to what has fallen from my colleague. on one hundred and twenty bales of blankets, and I B{)ent $30,000, I know not the purpose, except as I can guess it from the current directly and indirectly, in carrying out that contract, in my fight events of that day, why this commission was raised. I suppose our with the Indian Commissioner. I might go into details and speak friends on the other side of the House, who then had control of Con- ·from recollection of papers that a.re now in the Interior Department, 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 531 il they have not been destroyed, which give a history of the whole the Secretary desires the assistance or advice of philanthropic indi matter. _ . . viduals willing to act without compensation, let him have the power In the end I determined to appeal to a repubhcan President on to choose them from time to time, but let somebody be solely respon- his election, a~d to have the thing sifted to the bottom. But the war sible. · came on, and I felt that my personal interest was a matter of no Again, Mr. Chairman, I am suspicious of adopting permanently a. moment at that time, and I made no attempt to expose the wrong. policy giving the power and control of expenditn'res to men who re [Here the hammer fell.] ceive no compensation, and who are supposed to act upon pure phi Mr. HUMPHREY. I will take the floor and yield my time to the lanthropic grounds. My observation teaches me, both in pri"\'"ate and gentleman from New York. public affairs, that the service performed without adequate compen Mr. CHITTENDEN. I thank the gentleman. Now, twenty years sation is not a good or safe service. I grant that many men do phi after, the case comes up again-- lanthropic acts. But, after all, it is not safe to invest men or organ Mr. HOOKER. Will the gentleman permit me to interrupt him izations who act without pay with the power of making contracts for a question 1 and incmring expenditures in conn-ection with the Government. Mr. CHITTENDEN. Certainly. :Men doing duty of this kind ought to be responsible to somebody. Mr. HOOKER. I tlid not distinctly understand what the gentle When yon vest power of this sort in the hands of men who are ex man said in reference to Secretary Thompson. pected to act from pure philanthropy and without compensation, it :Mr. CHITTENDEN. I said that Mr. Thompson was Secretary of is generally not a great while before some designing individual as the Interior and compelled to award me the contraet against all the sumes the robes of philanthropy that under their cover he may com lobby, because I was the lowest bidder. mie fraud. If this commission has done good heretofore I am glad o£ Mr. HOOKER. What contract¥ it ; but the policy is wrong; and I want now to abolish this commis- Mr. CHITTENDEN. To supply goods for certain Indian in 186L sion before, under the ordinary operation of the laws governing mat l\fr. HOOKER. That wns a valuable contract 'f ters of this kind, it brings abuses into the service. Or, if yon cannot l\lr. CHITTENDEN. The total amount of the contract was about trust t];le Secretary of the Interior, then take the power from him one hundred and ten thousand dollars, and the goods to fill the con altogether in the premises, and vest it in a commission, providing it tract cost me 140,000, one way and another. with the properma,ahinery for successful operation, fixing its respon Mr. HOOKER. You did not make anything by that operation. sibility, and giving its members adequate compensation for their Mr. CHITTENDEN. No, sir, no money; but I made some experi services. ence of Indian contracts under the old system of business, which is a Mr. BLOUNT. :Mr. Chairman, a great deal of the abuse to which warning to gentlemen who propose to abolish the commi!!Sion now this commission has been subjected is, I think, founded on a misunder existing. In respect to the blankets before alluded to, I discovered soonding of facts. I regret that on this occasion I am differing with that the Indians had been systematically cheated, and that goods the majority of the Committee on Appropriations., but I think I am· worth less than half the contract price had, year after year, been doing so upon sufficient reason. What are the duties of this com-· substituted for the goods paid for by Government. mission f So far as the expenditure of money is concerned, the com Now, Mr. Chairman, this is an extremely interesting and difficult mission has not absolute control. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs· question to deal with. After the long series of outrages committed is required to consult with the commission; nothing more. Section upon the Indians in the purchase of their supplies, a commission of 2042 of the Revised Statutes expressly provides: angels could hardlysucceedin immediately righting the wrongs con Bnt the examination of vouchers and accounts by the execntiv6 committee of nected with this matter. But I say from my knowledge of the work said board shall not be a prerequisite of payment. of the commission and the men composing it, that if there are any The members of tp.e commission are simply allowed to examine the· men in this country who are honestly devoted to their public duties, accounts to see that they are correct ; to examine goods unrchased or· 1f there are any who can be trusted for the honest pe~ormance of to be purchased so as to prevent any fraud upon the Government.. those duties, the men who have for the last few years superintended They are allowed to visit the different agencies for the purpose of ob as members of that commission the furnishing of Indian supplies are serving the conduct of the Governm~nt officials. This is. all. tmoh men. While they may not have succeeded in securing entire What harm has come to the Government from this thing f Gentle economy in every respect, and doing full justice to the Indians, it is men say that they have done no good, that the commission has been ,aapable of demonstration that they have in every direction made good useless. How is this opinion obtained f Where is the information progress. To the democracy of this House, who have had sway here upon which this is based f _ for six years, and who have claimed that all rottenness and all wrong 1\fr. SCALES. I will refer the gentleman to their reports. doing belonged to the republican party, I say do not abolish this com Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman has had his time. I say we have mission. Of all the mistakes of legislation that the democratic party it upon the high authority of the Secretary of the Interior-- have made in six years, this would, in my judgment, be one of the Mr. SCALES. The gentleman will let me answer him. most notable. Mr. BLOUNT. I object to interruption. I say we have it on the Mr. Chairman, I only came into the Honse after my colleague [Mr. high authority of the Secretary of the Interior, that in the examina HISCOCK] had offered his amendment, and only accidently learned tion of accounts, in the expenditure of public money, in visitations the question before the oommi~e. Yesterday, unfortunately, I paid of agencies, this commission has rendered most essential service. no attention to the progress of this bill, being very much employed Mr. SCALES. The gentleman has asked me a question and refuses otherwise. Dut I should, from my experience, as soon expect to see to yield to let me answer him. this committee vote to abolish the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Mr. BLOUNT. I object to interruption. Representatives as to abolish this commission, under which we have, Mr. SCALES. Then do not ask me any question if you refuse t() most manifestly, coJTect-ed many evils. yield to an answer. Mr. CANNON, of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, last year I voted to with Mr. BLOUNT. I did not ask the gentleman any question. bold the appropriation for this commission, and I see no reason for Mr. SCALES. But the gentleman did. voting differently to-day. Before the creation of this commission the Mr. BLOUNT. Then I withdraw it. Secretary of the Interior was responsible for the proper administration Mr. SCALES. Do not ask questions if yon do not wish to have of tbis bureau ; he hacl the power to make contracts without any them answered. I propose to answer the gentleman's question. supervision of ,this kind. But this commission, so far as purchases Mr. BLOUNT. I did not ask him any. are concerned under the act creating it, exercises joint authority with Mr. SCALES. The record will show whether he did or not. He the Secretary of the Interior. Gentlemen say that the Commissioner asked me npon what information the statement we made was based. of Indian Affairs and this commission would have to co-operate be Mr. BLOUNT. I have the floor, and if so I will proceed with my fore a wrong thing could be accomplished. So it might be said they remarks. will have to co-operate before a right thing can be done. . Mr. SCALES. I understood the gentleman to ask me a. question, Now, thisisnottheonlydepartment of the Government that makes and I desired to answer it, but he does not want it answered. He purchases, that opens bids. The goods purchased for the Indians should not ask questions unless he wants an answer. [Laughter.] constitute but a very small portion of the supplies furnished to the Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman seems to feel that he is the only one Government. If a commission of this kind is a good thing in the In in this Honse who understands this subject. terior Department, it strikes me it would be a. good thing in every Mr. SCALES. I always except the gentleman from Georgia; al other Department. Here yon have a commission responsible to no ways. body. The members of the commission it is said are very clever men. Mr. BLOUNT. That is something new in the way of liberality on I cannot dispute that statement; I have no desire to dispute it. I the part of the ~entleman. ' do not know these men. I am speaking of the system. If yon have Now, Mr. Chall'man, in the matter of purchase of goods in N~w had good administration under this system, it is because you have York, this commission has rendered essential service to the Govern happened to obtain good men, and not because the system itself is ment. Many of them are merchants and experts in the purchase of not likely to prove a vicious one, as everybody must see, in the future. Indian goods and supplies. They have rendered materia) service fu I apprehend that the Secretary of the Interior, so long as he is the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, who consults with ttJ.em in ref char~ed with the enforcement of the law, ought to have complete erence to these matters. power to choose his agents, and should be held responsible. It ought And, sir, what is the allegation' My friend from Illinois says that to be out of his power and out of the power of any other officer they may have co-operated in doing the right thing. That is so, and charged with the performance of public duty to divide responsibility. this Department has no other check upon it in behalf of the Govern- The moment you divide the responsibility for official action, that mo ment but the scrutiny of this peace commission. .. ment you lay a trap which sooner or later will promote fraud. If In the matter of co-operation, it is an easy thing to co-operate t() 532 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 11, do right., but in any co-operation to do wroi;Jg you have this body of the white man's method of living and earn.ing a livelihood, whereby men in the way. With this commission examining the accounts any the Indian may eventually take his place among the citizens of this eo-operation to do wrong cannot easily be a~complished. conn try. But, sir, there is no co-operation in it. That is a misunderstand Now, there must be left. in the administration of Indian affairs a ing. The commission has rendered good services in the purchase of large discretionary power in the disbursement of moneys that shall Indian goods and eupplies; so tbe Secretary of the Interior has re be employed for the education of the Indians. Agricultural tools ported to us. In visiting Indian agencies and in the examination of must be provided, individual allotments of lands must be improved, Indian accounts they have done mnch good; and what has been the and the future care, guardianship, and instruction of the Indians left result f Before this commission was created you had abuses in the to the head of that department. In all this work this commission Indian Department, charges of co-operation between agents and offi has been co ting the Government nothing for their personalservic~ cers of the Government; you had false pay-rolls; you had false although they have rendered in the administration of Indian affairs vouchers for supplies. After this commission was created, composed material·aid. It is by their advice that the Secretary of the Interior Qf men of high character and grea.t intelligence, with their eyes for four years past has pnshed his plan for severalty selection, the npon the Indian agents, the Government finds itself to-day without only plan, permit me to say here, that, in my judgment, will result; any such abuses. I take it that this commission has had a great deal in the entire protection of the life and of the property of the Indians. to do in the accomplishment of such a beneficial result. In all this preliminary work of investigation into the needs of the [Here the hammer fell.] Indian, into his wants and necessities in all the civilizing processes, Mr. SINGLETON, of Mississippi. Mr. Chairman, it is very seldom both in point of education, in the schooling and edncation of his chil I differ from my friend from Georgia, who is also a member of the dren, as well as in his education upon his allotment in agricultural Committee on Appropriations. Generally we both have been consid pursnits-I say in all this work these ten men have rendered valu ered as strict economists-perhaps carrying the thing a little too far able assistance by their advice and suggestions to the Government. sometimes--but I am compelled to-day to take issue with him. Now, Mr. Chairman, if this board cost a large snm of money, and I think, sir, it will be apparent to this Honse that we ought to dis was in that way a borden upon the Government, I presume that I pense with this board when I read the figures which go to make up would vote for the abolishment of it, if something conld be devised the expenses of the commission for the year 1879. If I can get the which would perform the work as economically as they are doing it, attention of the committee I will read them ; but before doing so I upon the principle laid down by old Ben. Franklin that possibly the will st.ate that the appropriation commenced in 1869 with $15,000. Government was paying too much money for its whistle. Mr. BAKER. Twenty-five thousand dollars. But ir; costs the Government nothing, absolutely nothing whatever, Mr. SINGLETON: of Mississippi. Yes, I believe it was $25,000. Bnt for the services of these men. Ten gentlemen, men of r.haracter and ·since 1873 it has been only $15,000. Last year we reported a bill education; men of high and broad-hearted philanthropy of this .appropriating but $7,000, but that was stricken out, as I said in my country; pore men, without personal or pecuniary motives to actuate .z:emarks a few minutes ago. them, have from time to time visited the Indian reservations, exam I will read now the way in which your money has been expended ined them, looked into the contracts made for sn ppl ies and purchases, •by this commission: Salaries of employes: Secretary Stickney, $3,000; examined the quality of supplies furnished under the contracts, and made suggestions to the Indian Department, the resnlt of which assistant secretary, $21000; clerk. 2,400; copyist, 900; messenger, is $480; porter, part of tne time, $780; making $9,560. Rent for Stick that to-day the Indian service is on the broad highway, and far for ney, $482; $10,040. Traveling expenses and per diem, $4,811; mak ward on the road of advancement, to a greater degree than it has ing an aggregate of $14,851; leaving only of the appropriation 149 ever before been in the history of this Government. unexpended. Now, sir, it does seem to me that this secretary at l Here t.he hammer fell.] $3,000 and assistant secretary at $~,000-- Mr. POEHLER. Mr. Chairman, there has been so much said upon Mr. BAKER. Secretary Stickney is also one of the members of the this question, more than I supposed would have been said or conld board. have been said upon it, that as I was the first one to raise the ques Mr. SINGLETON, of Mississiplli. Yes; and to that extent a mem tion by the amendment, I shall now only add a few words more. ber of the board has been paid. The assistant secretary has $2,000; The gentleman from New York appeals to this side of the Honse a clerk, $2,400; copyist, 900; porter, $780, &c. Now, it looks to me as if it was a political question. I had no idea th.tt it was or could as if there was a good deal of paraphernalia about this whole con possibly be considered a political question. I do not know one of _oorn which on~ht to be dispensed with. these gentlemen on the commission. I do not know whether they .Mr. HOOKER. Will my colleague allow me to make a suggestion~ are democrats or repn blicans. I have no doubt they are, and I believe lJr. SINGLETON, of Mississippi. Yes, sir. them to be, very nice, well-meaning gentlemen. Mr. HOOKER. The amount of money paid from 1869 tQ 1881 for A great deal has been said, too, of their efficiency and how much good tt.he nse of this commission amounts to about one hundred a.n.d twenty they have done to the Indian and to the Government. They probably ·t housand dollars. have. But my experience, and all that I have had in that line, con Mr. SINGLETON, of Mississippi. I do not know the amount my vinces me of a difterent idea. . self. I had occasion when I first came here to Washington to make some Mr. HOOKER. Well, I state it to be that, and I am satisfied no- inquiries about the letting of some cattle contract. The advertise body will deny it.. · ments that invited the proposals for bids stated that no bids would Mr. SINGLETON, of Mississippi. Bot, Mr. Chairman, [here the be received for Texas cattle. When I went to the office and looked hammer fell.] I wish, Mr. Chairman, simply to make a brief sta.t.e to see to whom the contract was awarded, I fonnd that it was awarded .ment and .to call attention to the law, or a provision embodied in for a number of cattle to be bonght in Texas or for Texas cattle. I the statute of last year in reference to this matter. In the act which said, "How does that come 7 That is contrary to your advertise passed .both Houses at the last Congress the following words are ment." "Well," says the chief clerk, "it is for northern Texas incorporated: cattle." Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not know much difference be And no part of the money appropriated by this act shall be paid or in any way tween northern and soathem Texas cattle. I inquired on whose osed for the payment of the salaries or expenses of the Indian oommi.ssion pro recommendation the contracti were let and he informed me on the vided for by section 2039 of the Revised Statutes of the United States. recommendation of these commissioners. So I came totheconclnsion It will be seen from this language that no part or the money was that in that direction they were not well posted. What goed they to go for this expenditure. I have, of course, Mr. Chairman, no may have done in other directions I will give them all the credit for. .reflection to make npon these gentlemen. But this is nothing more than the Department should do itaeif, and I . [Here the hammer fell.] do not believe that this commission is any Jonger necessary. Mr. HASKELL. Mr. Chairman, I rise to favor the amendment and Mr. SCALES. When I was last on the floor I was stating for the -the retention of this Indian commission. information of the House that last year we struck out this appropria .I am not unaware that the work of the commission is not entirely tion entirely. The Honse repealed the law. The Senate wonld only without cost to the Government, bnt I believe, and I have personal agree to strike out the appropriation, but continued the commission. knowledge of the fact, that if the work of that commission in the That was the condition of the last Indian bill as passed. Aft,erward past ten years, instead of costing the Government $100,000, had cost the Senate put it on the sundry civil appropriation bill. It was a sur us$1,000,000, it.would have been money wisely expended. The work prise to this House and to the country. I never knew until to-dayr of the commission is not limited to the mere inspection of contracts thongh I was present and watched the appropriation bills, that tho or of p'nrchases, although in that department of their dnty they Government was paying a dollar toward this commission. have performed faithful and valuable services, and the abuses that How was t.hat done f The Senate and the House had agreed in a com e:risted. at the time the commission was appointed have nearly all mittee of conference that the appropriation should be stricken out. been done away with, or are no longer complained of. But there is It was stricken out; and the bill in that form passed the House and another branch of their services which the Secretary of the Interior the Senate, was approved by the President, and became the law of the only alludes to in his letter that, in my judgment, is more important land. And yet, after that, in some way, the appropriation was placed than the purchase of supplies. It is a w~ll-known fact that in the in the sundry civil bill, and passed with it; and I doubt whether last ten or fi'fteen years the policy of the Government in reference to twenty men in t.his House ever beard of it before. How did it come . the Indians has taken a material stride of advanr.ement. It has ~een there f I am justified in saying through the efforts of these commis . determined.to allot the Indians their lands upon reservations, protect sioners themselves, or those acting under them, who were deeply- in them from t~eir warlike ne~ghbors, place them upon the reservations terested in their continuance. , as soon as possible, and teach them the ways of peace-teach them Gentlemen say they are men of in1luence ana chamoter. I admit. 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 533 it all, and in my opinion these commissioners have been continued for derstand, and that, those circumstances no longer existing, the law years more on account of their personal influence and high standing should be repealed. than from any good that bas been done to the service. Now, I agree with the gentleman from Kansas [Mr. HASKELL] The gentleman from Georgia [Mr. BLOIDIT] who is now so zealous upon this question, that this commission was created for no particu for this amendment, last year was equally zealous against it. Has lar occasion; it was created because it was the intention of the Gov he assigned any goocl reason for a change Y Has he ~iven us any new ernment to change its policy as far as it could toward these Indians; light 'f He voted to strike it down. The record is before me, and I as far as it could to introduce among them civilizing methods; asfar know that it was in a great degree owing to his influence in the House as it could to teach them the practices and habits of the white man. that we were enabled to defeat it~ but to-day his great influence is on There is no one upon this floor who will charge or who has insinuated the other side. I do not mean to say he has been improperly influ that great progress has not been made in that direction. The Indians, enced. I do not mean to make any such insinuation. I do not bclie'"e greatly under the advice and supervision of this commission, have it; but it shows that the gentleman's convictions are short-lived or made great progre s. were hastily formed, and since he bas changed he ought at least to There is no doubt tbat many Indian wars have been occasioned by give the House a reason, that they may have the benefit of his later in precisely the same condition of things which bas been so well illus formation. trated by the gentleman from New York, my colleague, [Mr. CmT I think the time has come when we should have the whole Indian TE~DEN.] One of the objects of this commission was to prevent the Department made as simple as possible. You have the Secretary of abuses to which he has referred. This commission bas now been in the Interior. Let him superintend the whole. Let him have the as existenc'3 for twelve years. My friend from Illinois, my colleague sist:mce of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and let him have his on the committee, [Mr. CANNO~,] says this commission has done its inspectors and agents if he will, and hold them to a strict ancl undi work well during those twelve years. But he would now wipe ii vided responsibility. I hope the Honse will not go back on its action out of existence because perchance in the future it may fail to do its of last session. It was taken after due deliberation and discussion, duty. I believe that ten philanthropic men, religions men if you and no ~mffir.ient reason has been given to change it. please, may be found in the United States who will do their duty Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. ScALEs] under this law. They have already saved to the Government mill bas stated what occurred in reference to this commission. I will ions of dollars in preventing fraudulent contracts that migbl. other state the history of the matter as I understand it., especially as I had wise have been forced upon the Government. ·with that reeord in very much to do with it. As is well known, in the Indian appropria their favor, why should we now depose them and take from them the tion bill of last _year there is this provision: power with which they are now invested 7 No part of tb~ mon~y appropriated by this act sball be paid or in :my way used The Secretary of the Interior recommends their continuance, in f•r the pasment of the salaries or expenses of the Indian commissioners provided despite of the matter which has been referred to by the gen~leman for by section 2039 of the Revised Statutes of the United States. from Mississippi, [Mr. HooKER.] I know nothing of the circum That was agreed to in tho committee of conference on tho differ stances connected with the matter to which be has referred. I can ences betwe~n the two bodies, and it was put in the bill; not repeal imagine that there may have been npon that board some eminent ing the legislation authorizing the commission, bat simply omitting man, thoroughly versed in this matter, a poor man who perhaps could the salaries. not give all his time to this business, and t.he commission gave to him Afterward, when the sundry civil bill went from this Honse to the a compensation as secretary of the commission. Technically thai Senate, they put on a provision appropriating money to pay this may have been a violation of the law. commission. The Honse non-concurred in the amendment. A com Bnt is there any charge made here t bat the commission did not act mittee of conference was had. We were near the end of the session, in good faith, and that the services tbev rendered were not valuable wit.h a diff~rence of many hundreds of thousands of dollars between t~ the Government Y Every officer of the Government who has the two llouses-betwE>en seven and eight hundred thousand dollars. spoken upon this question has spoken in favor of the continuance There were many matters about which we divided and on which con of this commission. The testimony of the Commissioner of Indian eessions bad to be made. Tbe conferees on the part of the House did Affairs is before you, in which be says that the commission has done not feel tl.Jat they bad the absolute right to dictate to the conferees good work and its members are valuable auxiliaries· of the Govern on the part of the Senate. The Honse conceded many things and the ment. I have had read here a letter from the Secretary of the Inte-· Senate conceded many things, and as a matter of concession the rior urging tbe cotJtinuance of this commission. House conceded the provision for the small sum of $10,000 for the Now, shall we, upon these vague, indefinite charges in which gentle Indian commission. men have indulged, strike down this commission, without any reason, When the committee of conference made its report to this House, without any figures or facts being given in favor of so doing! For Jone 15, the attent.iun of the House was especially called to Senate one, I protest against it. amendment No. 106, appropriat.ing $10,000 for the expenses of the Mr. WELLS. I trust we will now have a vote. Indian commis ion. The attention of the Honse was specially called The question was upon striking out the following paragraph: to it, so that the Honse bad t.be means of knowing exactly what had That all laws and parts of laws creating or authorizin~ the com.miasion af ten been agreed upon. The report of the committee was made in exact citizens provided for in the act. of ..April10, 1869, be, and the same are hereby, re conformity with the new rules, stating in terms and specifically to pealed. this Honse that that particular appropriation bad been agreed to in And inserting in lien thereof the following : a spirit of compromise on the part of the House conferees. For the expenses of the commission of citizens serving without comp(.'ll83tion. Now my friend says that I was one of his warmest supporters in appointed by the Presi1lent under the provisions of the fourth section of Ule ac' the matter of t.bis commission. About that I do not remember; it is of ..April10, 1869, lO,OOO. not a matter of very great concern to me. Matters in relation to the The question was taken; and upon a division there were-ayes 70. .. Indians were not specially in my charge. I acted then, I have no noes 61. doubt, as I supposed was right, for that is my general rule here; and Mr. WELLS. I call'for tellers. I so act to-day. I feel it to be of more importance to do what I think Tellers were ordered ; and Mr. WELLS and :Mr. HiscocK were ap-· is right than to be consistent. I believe that this commission ought pointed. to be continued, and if I bavf\ been recorded one hundred and ninety The committee again divided; and the tellers reported that there nine times the oth<>r way, I shall stand by my convictions now. were-ayes 87, noes 78. Mr. SCALES. Will the gentleman allow me- So the amendment was aflopted. Mr. BLOUNT. I have not the time. Mr. WELLS. I give notice that in the Honse I will call for the Mr. SCALES. Only a moment. yeas and nays on this amendment. Mr. BLOUNT. My friend ought to know that after having referred The Clt~rk read as follows: to me be should allow me to proceed for five minutes without an in ~c. 2. Payment of interest on certain abstract..ed and non-paying State steaks, terruption. Now, in this matter of visitatiQn of agencies, a single belongin::r to the various Indian tri~s. and held in trust by the Beontary of the instance which occurred during the last year will illustrate the value Interior, for the fiscal year ending June 30, IS!i2, namely. of tuis commission. At that time you had all your macbjnery, the Mr. WELLS. I move a verbal amendment, to strike out in line 5 the· Secretary of the Interior, the Commis ioner of Indian Affairs, and word" fiscal,"and to substitute in line 6 the word "oneJJ for "two." your special a-gents. -Yet under the action of this commission, and of The amt~ndment was agreed to. a single member of the commission, a resolution was adopted and an The Clerk read as follows: invet-tigation was bad. I do not care who knew anything about it, SEC. 5. That when not required for the purpose forwhlch appropriated, tltefnnd8 or what anybody bad thought or said about it, whether newspapers herein provided for the pay of specified emplores at any agencv may be used by the Secretary of the Interior for the pay of other "emplores at snob ~ency, but DO de or anybody else. But under the action of this commission an inves ficienc ..v shall ue thereby created, and, when necessary, specifie purpose of opening upthiswhole matter to a wider range of competi Mr. KEIFER~ Amend it how f tion and to allow smaller bidders to come in ihat this provision has Mr. PRICE. It may be amenued in divers ways. If it reduoes been submitted to the committee. expenditures, then the point of order is not well taken. I do not The CHAIRMAN. The discussion must be confined to the point of believe anybody will · claim but that it does retrench expenditures. order, and must not extend to the merits of the proposition. . The gentleman from Kansas ha-s sufficiently illustrated that point. Mr. PAGE. The gentleman from Kansas has been discussing the Mr. HISCOCK. One word more upon the question of this point of merits of the amendment. I do not propose to c1o that on the point order, and more especially in reply to the suggestion which has been of order. I think, .Mr. Chairman, that section 6 is clearly subject to made by the gentleman from Kansas. To me, I am sure, it is a very the point of order as suggested by the ~entleman from New York. lt novel idea that when you add to a statute a provision which restricts certainly changes section 2083 of the H.evised Statutes by providing the power of a Deptl.rtment-limits its power, narrows it-and points a different place for the opening of bids for Indian supplies. Now, out for it certain steps ~hich it shall take, that that does not chauge if the Chair should decide this to be in order, then it will also be in existing law, and is not subject to this point of order. This is a ques order for my colleague from California and myself to offer an amend tion which may arise manytimes in the proceedings in this House or ment that all the bids for Indian supplies for the Pa-cific coast shall in Committee of the Whole. I say that this point of order in princi be opened in San Francisco. And we could thus extend this matter ple has been decided at least a dozen times by chairmen of the vari to any length. ous Committees of the Whole of this House, and it has been held on I do not see any reason, :Mr. Chairman, why this provision should every occasion that when yon extended the operation of a statute-- be incorporated into this bill, and without arguing the merits of the The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman fro111 New York yield a .proposition I simply desire to submit to the Chair that it does clearly moment to allow the Chair a q nestion T change existing law and should not be permitted in this bill. J.l,lr. HISCOCK. Certainly. . M.r. PRICE. I want to say a word in regard to this point of order. The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman allow the Chair to inquire The first thing I wjsh to say is this: that any ruling of any chairman whether it has ever been decided that where an amendment or pro on this question heretofore ought not to have much bearing now; vision simply enacting new legislation which does not change exist because the rules we are operating under are not the rules which were ing law and does not rea-ch the question of retrenchment or increase in force when previous decisions were rendered. of expenditures either, has such been held to be obnoxious to the rule f M.r. HISCOCK. The gentleman is entirely mistaken. It was under Mr. IIISCOCK. I have a distinct recollection-- this same rule precisely as it is now rulings heretofore have been The CHAIRMAN. Let the Chair state his question more clearly. made. Where a provision makes new legislation, but does not change exist Mr. PRICE. A year ago f ing law, has there been a holding that it is obnoxious to the point of Mr. HISCOCK. Yes, sir. order under the rule f Mr. PRICE. Then I will come to the other point, as that is but a M.r. HISCOCK. My recollection is clear upon that point that it very small part of what I rose to say. I call the attention of the has been distinctly passed upon, and by no less a distinguished gen Chair and of the gentleman from New York to this fact and I quote tleman than Mr. O'ARLISLE, of Kentucky, holding that whenever yon from the role : pass an affirmative provision it of necessity changes existing law. Nor shall any provision in any such bill or amendment thereto changing existing That follows as a matter of course. It adds to the law as existing. law be in order, except snch as being germane to the subject-matter of the bill- Bnt in this case, as suggested by the gentleman from Ohio, if a That this is germane is not disputed- statute which points out to the Secretary of. the Interior the course shall retrench expenditures, &o. he is to pursue, which for him is an affirmative guide, and this statute places further restriction upon it, it adds to the statute which they Now, if there is anybody in this Honse who does not belie>e that propose to amend. But, as I have said, I think the doctrine has been this retrenches expenditures, then it will be proper for them to say held to the limits which I have stated, that where there is an affirm that the point of order is well taken. But when my friend from Cal ative statute, and where the whole matter is left within the discre ifornia talks about opening these proposaJB and bids upon the Pacific tion of the officer, the making of a new provision is a change of exist coast he will have to take charge of the other horn of the dilemma irig law. and provide that the Indians shall be moved out or transferred to the Mr. HASKELL. Will t~e gentleman from New York yield for a Paciftc coast, or else his argument will have no weight more than can question f be derived from the present condition of things. They will have to get their supplies even then from the Mississippi Valley, as they do Mr. HISCOCK. Yes, sir. now. · Mr. HASKELL. If that argument is to hold good literally and But another point. The rule goes on to say: fairly-1 admit that there has been a decision of that sort made by one chairman of the Committee of the Whole-but if that is to be Provided, That it shall be in order further to amend such bill upon the report of the committee having jurisdiction of the subject-matter of such amendment, &c. held to rigidly, that in ihe absence of any legislation a new affirma tive proposition changes existing law, I want to ask the gentlemaa. Now, sir, this committee reports this legislation in the bill. The from New York if there is a single item of appropriation in the bill other point the gentleman from New York makes the point of order under consideration that is not new legislation, and in the same way upon comes here from the committee. The point of order :that was obnoxious to the rnle T decided before upon this question, about a year ago, was not based Mr. HISCOCK. The rule itself provides for appropriations to carry upon matter which came from the committee. The very point that into effect existing Jaws. you make to-day on this bill, the very thing you wish to rnle out, Mr. HASKELL. I admit that; but a.s carrying out the idea I was comes from the committee, and that is not a point which arose before enunciating. when the decision was made; so that in ruling upon this point of Mr. HISCOCK. And, Mr. Chairman, the object of the enactmeni order to-day upon this qn~stion as now presented, you rule upon a of this rule was to limit the Appropriations Committee to providing point that is based upon entirely different circumstances from that to the means of carrying out the statutes as spread upon the books. which reference is here made. The amendment comes here from the But any legislation is new legislation, and this Appropriations Com committee, and the rule specially provides in terms that, coming from mittee had before it but one work; that work was to provide the the committee, it shall be in order. This refers, of course, to the com money with which the Government could give eft'ect to statutes which mittee having charge of the bill; hut I will read the language of the were already on our statute-book. If new laws were to be enacted rnle, which is expHcit. It declares: they were to emanate from the proper committees. That it shall be in order further to amend such bill upon the report of the com· Now, Mr. Chairman, in the discussion of this question gentlemen mittee having jurisdiction of the subject-matt~r. have wandered away, as I believe, from the point of order and to some That is, this committee, this Appropriations Committ~e, having extent have discussed this question upon the merits. Such has not charge of this matter of money appropriated for the Indians and all been my intention, and I shall not therefore continue this discussion questions arising therein, and that committee reports this very item on the point of order any further than it seems to be necessary to 1 in the bill. What other committee could report it Y Under the rnles, meet the su~gestions which have been.made. this is the only committee which has jurisdiction of the subject-mat I remember that when this question was up a letter came here from ter. I think, therefore, the point of order is clearly not well taken. the Secretary of the Interior, and he said that in the interest of I contend that this section of the bill, if it be an amendment to the economy it was necessary that a large number of the bids should bo law aa the gentleman from New York claims, comes from the com opened in the. city of New York, because in the main the supplies mittee uncler Rule XXI, which provides in terms as I have read, that furnished to the Indians had to be purchased in the city of New coming from a committee having jurisdiction of the subject-matter, York, and he said bidders might as well send their bids there as else- · and is therefore in order. · where; and he said if yon made it incumbent upon him to open the Mr. PAGE. After points of order have been reserved upon a bill bids elsewhere than in New York, you made it necessary_for him to reported from a committee to the Honse, will the gentleman from organize a new clerical force to be sent to a different point for tha' Iowa contend that the committee reporting it, simply from the fact purpose, and the result of legislation of this kind wonld be to provide of having reported the bill and hadng it under control, can report two clerical forces, one to be sent to the city of New York and another amendments thereto which are in conflict with existing law? to be sent to Saint Louis, if you please, another to be sent to Chica~o if Mr. PRICE. I have merely read the rule. The gentleman can that place were selected; and if the amendment which my fnend draw his own conclusions. The rule expressly declares that it shall from Calirornia [Mr. PAGE] suggested should he adopted, anotbet be in order, provided that it comes from the committee having charge corpR of clerks must be sent to San Francisco for the pnrpvse of open of the subject-matter; also, that it shall be in order further t-o amend ing these bids. The Secretary also stated that in his jodgmenii il; the bill. was a matter of no consequence to the bidders where the bids we~ 536 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 11, opened, but it was of consequence to the Government they should be correctly urged;that in all matters in relation to Indian supplies sec opened at some point, and that point should be the one where the tion 2083 of the Revised Statutes provides that it shall be done in greater number of supplies were received, and for that reason he had accordance with regulations established by the Secretary of the In selected New York. . terior. That section gives to those regulations all the force of law. Now, I have referred to this became it bears upon the suggestion By virtue of that section his regulations are the law of the case, as which has been made by the gentleman from Iowa, [Mr. PRICE.] A regards the opening of bids, and to those regulations all must bow as letter which is in the bands of one of my colleagues of the commit to the law. tee can be read for the information of the House on that question. Mr. HASKELL rose. It is there stated there would of necessity be an increase of expend Mr. BLOUNT. Not now. That section 2083, giving the Secretary iture if this provision is adopted ; and it eears out the suggestion of the Interior power to make these regulations, will be so changed made by the Secretary on this question that the present system is no by this provision of the bill now under consideration that he may hardship on the bidder, for it is a fact which can be established that not make regulations as to where these bids shall be opened, or if he the bidders in the main for this kind of merchandise are from the does make them they must designate one of two places. It seems to West-Saint Louis, Chicago, &c. me, therefore, most clear that this provision does change existing law. 11r. BLOUNT and Mr. HOOKER rose. Now, as to the question of expenditures, there is nothing in the Mr. HOOKER. I give way to the Appropriations Committee. proposition itself to show that there will be a reduction. If the Chair llr. HISCOCK. I suggest the gentleman from Mississippi should desires to go outside of this provision to ascertain in regard to that nnite with me in beating the Appropriations Committee. matter, then I trust we shall have an opportunity to present the facto Mr. HOOKER. I be~ the gentleman's pardon. I go with the com as to whether it does or does not increase expenditures. After the mittee whenever I think it is right. intimation from the Chair, I certainly shall not go beyond the strict M.r. BLOUNT. I desire to say that section 6, which is now under limits of this question of order. consideration by the committee, is not the committee's proposition at Mr. HASKELL. 'Vill the gentleman now allow me to ask him a all. The sickness of the gentleman who bas in charge the funding question f bill bad much to do with this bill being hastened in the Hoose; and Mr. BLOUNT. Certainly. I violate no secret of the committee when I say that when this pro Mr. HASKELL. I ask the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT] vision was reached it was unanimously agreed by the committee we to read one line in the section to which he has referred which pro would allow the bill to go into the Honse simply that it might be vides that the Secretary of the Interior shall open anywhere the bids printed, availing ourselves of the interval between the time the bill for contracta, or one line which says that this matter of opening tlte went into the House and its consideration, in order that we might get bids shall be at his discretion, or a line that contains one word about information on this subject. I do not care to contradict the record. where the bids shall be opened. If the gentleman will read closely I am willing that the record should stand. But it is just to each he will find general provisions regulating the a{)tion of the Secretary ind~vidual member of the committee that this statement should be of the Interior, bot not a line as to the place of opening of the bids made. This state of tbin~s grew out of the necessities by which they or making the awl:)ords : not a line. were then surrounded. Therefore this substantially is not a propo Mr. BLOUNT. In answer to the gentleman I will read the section: sition of the committee. It was allowed to coma in because it was All merchandise required by any Indian treaty for tho Indi~ns, pa.vablo after the unanimous j ndgment of the committee that a point of order would making of such treaty, shall be purchased under the direction of the Secretary of dispose of it, and therefore the committee would lose nothing. the Interior, upon proposals to be received, to be based on notices previoll8ly to be Mr. HOOKER. In other words, that the point of order would be given. decided against the committee Y J..Ir. HASKELL. . We do not propose to ohange the law in regard Mr. BLOUNT. I cannot answer my friend from Mississippi just to proposals. now. llr. BLOUNT. My friend will allow me to answer his question Mr. HOOKER. Then I will make another speech. before he interrupts me. l:ir. BLOUNT. The proposition in section 6 is as follows: Anfl all merchandis6 required at tho making of any Indian treaty shall be pur That all bids for supplies of wheat, corn, flour, feed, oats, beef, bacon, pork, and chased under the order of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs by such person as oUler provisions for tho Indians, and all bids for tran8portation of such supplies, he shall appoint. ahall be first opened and the contracts awarded thereon at some suitable place in the :llissiasippi Valley or in the :Missouri River Valley. And then general power is given to the Secretary of the Interior to make regulations in regard to Indian affairs as well as in regard It distinctly requires that at one of two points in the Mississippi to other matters. 'fhat power has never been questioned. Under Valley or in the Missouri River Valley the bids shall be opened for this section the Secretary of the Interior has the right to make these tte va1·ioos articles of merchandise designed for the Indian service. regulations, and he bas uniformly made them-made them by virtue Mr. KEIFER. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a single of this law and nothing else. question~ I want to know what is the boundary of the Mississippi Mr. FINLEY. Before the gentleman sits down will he permit me Valley in the estimation of the Committee on Appropriations. I want to ask him a question f to know wh~tber it takes in Ohio f · Mr. BLOUNT. Certainly. Mr. BLOUNT. Ohio takes in everything else. Mr. FINLEY. I wish to ask the gentleman if he holds that because Mr. WELLS. It takes in the whole country outside of New York. the law gives to the Secretary of thainteriorthe right to make regu llr. KEIFER. I asked my question in perfect good faith, for I was lations, when he ha.s made such regulations do they become such a afraid tbe Committee on AppropriationR had not defined that matter. law that we cannot repeal them or make different regulations on an JJr. BLOUNT. As I have already said, the proposition confines the appropriation bill f opening of these bids to one of two points, one in the Mississippi Val Mr. BLOUNT. The question is now upon the point of order. We ley and one in t.he Missouri Valley. The question now raised by my can change any existing law, following the mode prescribed in the friend from New York [.Ur. HiscocK] is that this provision proposes rules of this House. Tllis is a different thing. a cban~e of existing law. Mr. ROBINSON. Upon this question of order the Chair seems to Mr. HOOKER. I rise to a point of ordor. linger upon one point, and this may be valuable perhaps as a preceden~. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair can entertain but one point of order .Mr. Sl.MONTON. Will the gentleman from MassachusettH allow me at a time. to ask him a. question f Mr. HOOKER. I want to confine the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Mr. ROBINc:;ON. I wanted to say but a few words. BLOUNT] to the point of order, and not to the merits of the question; Mr. SIM08TON. I will detain you but a moment. because when the question comes to be considered on its merits I will Mr. ROBINSON. I will yield for a question. 1lave something to ofter. Mr. SIMONTON. I want to ask the gentleman from M:assoobnsetts Mr. BLOUNT. My friend from Mississippi [Mr. HOOKER] talks [Mr. ROBL,..SON] this question: whether under ·existing law these with so much license in debate that I did not think be would attempt I.> ids may not now be opened in New York; and if the provision onder to prevent my speaking upoi1 this matter. consideration shall be incorporated into this bill and become law, can Mr. HOOKER. I always speak in order. the Secretary of the Interior then have these bids opened in New The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will hear the gentleman upon the York; and if not, what is the reason 7 point of order, first, whether this provision will chan~e existing law; Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. Chairman, as I was about to say, it seems to and, second, whether if it so changes existing law 1t comes within me that the d~cision made on this point at this time may be taken as 1he provisions of tbe role of the House. a precedent. Yet we are not without precedents, if I recollect the Mr. BLOUNT. I should have come to that already but for the ca-ses as they have come before the Honse. It is said that no such interruptions of my friend from .Mississippi. I was stating first the case as this has arisen ; but it seems to me that many times such cases proposition in the bill, explaining t.bat it confines the Secretary of have arisen. Suppose that in the Indian appropriation bill it were the Interior to one of two particular points in connection with the proposed to authorize the appointment of an as istant commissioner epening of the bids. My friend from New York [Mr. HiscocK] has. of Indian Affairs. That is a new provision; it does not in terms raised the question that that changes existing law. Now what law change existing law, but it creates a new office. Over and over again does it change J such an amendment has been excluded because in principle and in lfy friend from Kansas [1\Ir. HASKELL] assumes that there is no law spirit it would change existing law. As I understand, the purpose upon the subjeot, and therefore there is no existing law to be changed. of thiti rule, odious as it may be, (I am not discussing that,) is to pre 1f he were correct in that assumption, then it might be that the point vent legislation upon appropriation bills, unless that legislationsha.ll of order made by my friend from New York [Mr. HISCOCK] would retrench expenditures. fail. But ihe proposition urged by the gentleman from New York is Now, the provision in question is in the line of the illustration I 1 • 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. have used, is new legislation, and therefore a change of existing law; that State. I could as well contract for it in the State of Cali because, as my friend from Tennessee [Mr. SIMONTON] implies in his fornia. interrogatory, the Secretary of the Interior may now require bids to Mr. FINLEY. I do not propose to consume the time of the com be opened in the city of New York, or Boston, or Mobile; but if this mittee at any great lengtb ~n this point of order. As I understand provision be enacted his discretion in this matter is taken away. There it, the point made on this sixth section of the bill, and as it is crystal fore the law as to him is changed; be must confine his action in this Jized in the remarks of the gentleman from Massachusetts, is that respect to a. certain portion of the territory of the United States, the under existing law the Secretary bas a discretion in directing where Mississippi Valley. the bids may be opened, t.bat the law places it in his sound discre My friend from Iowa [Mr. PRICE] argues that this amendment re tion. The point now made, as it is well stated by the gentleman from trenches expenditures. How does it retrench expenditures Y There is Massachusetts, is that by directing the bids to be opened in the Missis nothing now to prevent contractors coming from the Mississippi Valley sippi Valley puts it beyond the dhmretion of the Secretary of the to submit their bids in Washington and have them opened in the city Interior. I understand that to be tho gentleman's point, that we put of New York. Suppose that you receive the bids in the .Mississippi it beyond the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior by directing Valley; does that necessarily.transfer aU the contractors to the Mis the bids to be opened at a certain place, and that, consequently, it; sissippi Valley; does it prevent any man living away from the Mis would thereby be obnoxious to the role, which says, "nor shall any sissippi Valley from making a bid 7 If not, then your provision does provision in any such bill or amendment changing existing law be not necessarily retrench expenditures. In fact I can see that when in order except such as, being germane," &c. you go outside of a great metropolis you may be perhaps going in the The Chair will observe that the language used is "change existing direction of waste. law." The gentleman claims by his reasoning that the change of a The provision of the rule is not that the amendment shall tend to rule or regulation of the Department or taking away from the Secre reduce expenditures, but that it shall on its face retrench expendi tary of the Interior discretion is a change of existing law. I do not tures. There is no safety if the Chair rules otherwise. believe that is a fair construction of this rule, for the rule says :Mr. HOOKER. I have listened to the argument of my classical "change of existing law." friend from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT) with a great deal of pleasure; and Now, what is existing law f It is a statute upon your statute I have heard what the gentleman from MiSBissippi has had to say in books passed by both Houses and approved by the President of the reply. These gentlemen, I venture to suggest, are quarreling about United States. A rule of the Department may be changed by the trifles ; yet I know that in controversies of this kind trifles are some Department itse1f, but a change of existing law requires the concur times the flowers with which the combatants wreathe their brows. rence of the two Houses of Congress and the approval of the Presi The CHAIRMAN. So much time bas already been consumed upon dent. We simply provide in this sixth section that the Secretary of' this discussion that. tho Chair is unwilling to hear any comments on the Interior shall cause these bids to be opened at certain places. the merits of the amendment. · As was well stated by the gentleman from Kansas, it changes no word Mr. HOOKER. I restrict myself to the limitation which the Chair or line of any law upon oar statute-books. Nowhere do we read on l-ays down, for I recognize the propriety of his ruling. Upon this our statute-books in reference to bids for contracts where the Secre point of order I want to read the concluding section of this bill: tary of the Interior shall cause them to be opened. In New York, That all bids for supplies of wheat, corn flour, feed, oats, beef, bacon, pork, and Louisiana, Mississippi, Kansas, or anywhere in the United States, other provisions for the Indians, nnd all b1ds1 for transportation of such supplies, un.der existing law, he may cause the bids to bo opened. shall be first openecl and the contracts awarded thereon at some suitable pla.ce in Now, does an amendment to an appropriation bill directing he shall the Mississippi V:l.lley or in the Missouri River Valley. open them at certain places change existing law, or does it simply The point of orrler, as I understand, is that this provision changes take away from him a discretion Y and is the taking away of a discre existing law. What is the existing law V I undertake to say that tion from the Secretary a change of existing law within the purview there is no law upon the subject. The troth is that these bids ought of this rule Y I think not, sir. The committee simply adds to the to be opened in all the markets overt to our country. These supplies law, but does not change it. · ought to be purchased in whatever market may be the cheapest. I Mr. RYAN, of Kansas, rose. concede the commercial greatness of the city of New York; but the The CHAIRMAN. Any further discussion of the point of order is supplies to be furnished under this bill are not luxurious art.icles entirely fruitless, as the Chair has reached a conclusion which he belonging to the highly civilized life of a great metropolis. They desires to announce to the Committee of the Whole. are simple in their character and are n. part of the products of our .Mr. HISCOCK. Before this is done, I desire in connection with my great western valleys. And when you come to the question of sup remarks to print some letters to which I have referred. plies you must remember that the great river which flows through The CHAlRMA..L.\T. The Chair hears no objection. those valleys drains twenty-four States and six Territories, embracing The letters are as follows : seven-tenths of the population of the United States. Wtile yon may DXPARTliR!'."'T OF THE ll'TERIOR, have in the great metropolis of New York a. money center arbitrary OFFICE OF b.'DIA.N AFFAmS, in its power, vast in its influence, yet, whatever may be your com Waahinqt 538 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 11, ~ers of the Department char~ed with the duty of attending to such business and ment itself is in OJ;der, the Chair will not determine until it haa again a corps of clerks to pelform the necessary clerical work, as well as delay the let ting of contracts for many articles which under any circumstances have to be been read. bought in the East. Mr. HISCOCK. Let it be read again, then, for a ruling. The experiment of awarding contracts in the West was tried by this office in Tho amendment was again read. 1876, when proposals were opened at Saint Louis for subsistence supplies and trans The CHAIRMAN. The Chair holds that the amendment is obnox portation for the fiscal year 1877. The records of the office show that no more ad vantageous terms were st>cured by the Department in this case over prenous or ious to the point of order made by the gentleman from New York. subsequent years, while much time was lost and ~!Teat additional expense incurred. The section having been stricken out, there is nothing left of it to l ·am. therefore of the opinion that such a course should not be adopted, and trust amend. that the motion offered in tho House yesterday looking to that end may not pre·miL Mr. HOOKER. '!'hen I offer an additional section to the bill Very respectfully, . R. E. TROWBRIDGE, which I hope the gentleman from New York will not make a point of Commi.saioner. order upon. Ron. J. H. :BLOUXT, The Clerk read as follows: HOWJe of Repruentativu. S?J-C. G. That from an~ after the 1st day of July, 1881, the management of Indian affatrS be, and the same18 hereby, transferred to the War Department. :Bacon: Ei~ht bidders; all in :Minnesota, lllinois, New :Mexico Montana Ne- Mr. WELLS. I make a point of order upon that. braska, and Wyonnng. ' ' :Barley: Four bidders; living in Arizona and New Mexico. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state his point of order. :Beans: Twelve bidders; four in New York, the others in Minnesota., New . ~fr. WELLS. The point of order that. I make is, that it is a propo Mexico, .Arizona, and Iowa. sitiOn to transfer the control of the Indian service to the Army and :Beef_: T~irty-three b_idders: c;me in_ Washingtc;m and one in New Y Since the amendment to Rule 120 of this House, whicb was adopted January 17 the necessity of any further legislation whatever. It is true t.hat some regulations of this session, there has been considerable discussion as to its interpretation, and are to be prescribed by the President and others by the Secretary of War; but the several rnlings ha'\""e been made upon it. In view of the exhaustive arguments prescribing of such regulations is not le¢Hlation. but mere matter of detail, the which have been made upon the rnle as amended, and tho "important ruling thereon regulation of which is conferred in similar cases upon all the heads of Departmfnts. by the honorable Speaker of thellouse on the 28th of April, the Chair could hardly But the section goes further and absolutely abolishes a large number of offices and err in the decision of the point of order now raised. The rule has been so often discontinues the salaries thereof; and it provides that the officers, soldiers. and quoted that it is scarcel.v necessary to again read it, as it is doubtless familiar to employes of the Army shall yerform the duties of the persons heretofore filling ever.v member. But as this question is in many respects similar to that decided by such offices without additiona compensation. the Speaker on the 28th of April, the Chair bas j!i.ven the subject most serious con Here, then, is manifestly and, by the very terms of the provision itself, in the sideration, nncl then•fore asks tho indulgence of the committee in again reading the light of existing law, a large reduction of expenditures. The Chair will take offi rule: · cial cognizance of the fact that the law as it exists appropriates for tbe current "No appropriation ahall be reported in such general appropriation bills, or be in year, for the salaries and expenses of tbe officers and ao-l.'nts, whose offices and order n.s an amendment thereto, for any expenditure not previoualy authorized by positions are abolished by this section, over two hundre8 thousand dollars; and law, unless in continuation of appropriations for such public works and objects as that this bill appropriates in the aggregate about fourteen million dollars less than are already in progress; nor shall any provision in any such bill or amendment was appropriated for the same purposes for the current year. Vonsidering the vast thereto changing existing law be in order, except such as, being germane to the number of offices abolished by the section under consideration, it is evident that su~ject-matter (lf the bill, shall retrench ex-penditures." this transfer of tbe management of Indian Affairs from the Interior t{) the War This rnle has for itq object the exclusion from appropriation bills of subjects of Department contributes largely to the general reduction of expenditures by the general legislation. Nopronsion reported in such billoramendmenttheretowhlch bill. .At least the Chair may safely infer from this fact that the other provisions changes existing law is in order, except it be germape to the subject-matter of the of the bill ha.>e not increased expenditw>es in consequence of the large reduction bill and retrenches expenditures. thereof by the second section of the bill. Whether a particular provision be ~ermane tothesnbject-matteror not is a ques But it has been argued with much plausibility that the Chair cannot foresee what tion which will generally admit of little doubt, and in this case it seems to be ad increased appropriations may be necessary in the future in ordef to support and pay mitted that the section under consideration does not contravene the rule ; for this tbe Army, ou account of the increased duties imposed upon its officers, soldiers, bill relates exclnsh·cly to Indian affairs, and the section under consideration, taken and employes by this section. And that, in coll.Sequence of war or other unforseen in connection with the other provisions thereof, completely disposed of the whole ep1ergency, or of the alleged impossibility of the present military force to perform subject. The section is in harmony with the other provisions of the bill, and, con the increased duties imposed upon them, it may bo necessary hereafter to make sidered as a whole, a system of Indian control and management is provided, taken mnch larger appropriations for the Indian service than are now necessary under in connection with existing laws and treaties, which is complete in itself, effective the present mana~ment. Such arguments may with propriety be addressed to t.he in its operation, and not dependent upon other or further legislation. The section committee or the J:ionse, but the Chair cannot speculate thus upon the uncertain is therefore undoubtedly germane to the subject-matter of the bill. ties of human e>ents. He bas only to consider whether this seution, by its own But bow shall the Chair determine whether a particular provision of a bill or a force. in connection with the other provi.sioll.S of the bill, in view of existing law, proposed amendment thereto does retrench expenditures 7 Two rules for the de does 1>etrench expenditures, and whether the bill is so perfect and complete in itself termination of this question ha>e been suggested : First. Th:it the Chair may hear as not to depend upon other or further le~islation to give it effect. arguments, consider estimates, compare official reports, and from all these ~iva That the section lmder consideration is new legislil.tion, changin.,. existing law, his opinion as to whether the provision in the bill or the proposed amendment does is admitted. But the rnle as amended at this session expressly pro;ides that such or does not retrench expenditures. If this rule were the correct one the Chair new legislation may be in order, in a general appropriation bill, provided it be ger would ba>e no other guide than the weil!ht of the arp:nmants pTo and con and his mane to the sn~ject-matter of the bill. and shall retrench expenditures. The sec own conjectures upon the probabilities of the issue. Such a rule of interpretation tion under consideration, in the opinion uf the Chair, meets both these req uiremants is foreign to the province of the Chair, and if assumed would be trenching upon and is therefore in order as a part of this bill, so far as the rnle is concerned. the privileges of the committee and of the House. Mr. WELLS. I move that the committee do now rise. The other rule for the determination of this question is this : that the Chair will not resort to evidence aliunde or to speculation or argument, but will limit his Mr. HASKELL. Before that motion is submitted I desire to be inquiries to the face of the bill, to the specific terms of the section in question. the recognized, as I have already asked the Chair to be recognized, to law of the land, and the parliamentary rules and practices of this Honse. This submit this point, that under section 4 of the twenty-first rule it is construction of the rule is that laid down by the honorable Speaker of this House not in order to consider as an amendment to a pending bill subject and is in perfect accord with the views of the present occupant of the chair. fu deci_ding a question_ of _this kind the Chair s?-ts as a Ce bill, the Speaker held that it didnot appear that the pro That is the exact history of it. I know it for I raised the point of vision came within the requirement of the rule. order against the amendment myself." B~t is the sectioJ?- un!ler c~nsidera?on subject to the objections urged against d~ire sectwn 1 of the leg~slative bill W This section proposes distinct, clearly defined Mr. FROST. Now, Mr. Chairman, I to have the contents of and perf~>ct le~lation. If enacted into law it will transfer the whole management those two bills read that the committee may know whether the of Indian affinrs from the Interior Department to the War Department without amendment is obnoxious to the rule or not. 540 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 11, Mr. ACKLEN. The question raised by the gentleman from Kan ment to change existing law in regard to the past I might be obnox sas, [Mr. HASKELL,] if I understand his point of order correctly, has ious to the objection which bas been raised. Bot my amendment reference to the provision in clause 4 of rule XXI, which reads: proposes that on and after a certain day in 1881 the conduct of In No bill or resolution shall at any time be amended by annexing thereto or in dian affairsshall be transferred from the Interior to the War Depart eorp<>rating therewith the substance of any other bill or resolution pending before ment. That is a proposition, allow me to say, (aud I hope the Chair the Honse. will hear me and at once concede that I am right about it, because In my opinion, the question raised at this time tnrns upon the point there is no question about it, there is no gentleman on either side of whether the words" pending before the House" are to be construed the House who will say otherwise,) my proposition is to transfer tbe as referring to bills before committees of this House. And I do not Indian Bureau, and is not coupled with any other action of aoy other think that nniler that construction the point of order taken by the Congress. gentleman will be sustained. Mr. FROST. Allow me, Mr. Ch:tirman-- Mr. FROST. I desire to have the bills read. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair dot>s not think it possible for any: The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will rea.d the bills. gentleman to present arguments which will lead him to change tho Mr. FROST. What I desire to know is the present condition of conclusion be has reached. · those bills. Mr. FROSl'. I propose to raise an entirely new point. The CHAffiMAN. The Chair suggests that it is useless for the The CHA.IR~fAN. The Chair will dispose of this first. In answer Clerk to read the bills unless the House desires to have them read for to the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. HoOKER] the Chair ,will say information. The Chair has examined them with v. view to ruling that he understands the amendment; offered to be a copy of the iden on the point of' order which has been made. tical bill now pending before the House. It is not only substantially Mr. FROST. I desire to have read the statement embracing the the same as that bill, but is identically the same. It is not necessary titles, the dates of introduction, &c. · for the Chair to compare the two bills further for the reason that the The Clerk read as follows : one offered as an amendment is in hrec verba the one pending before the Honse. Forty-sinh Congress, second session: H. R.. No. 2-l84. In the House of Repre sentatins, December 3, 1879, read twice, referred to the Committee on Indian Af. Mr. Fl~'LEY. Allow me to suggest that the Chair is certainly ia· fairs, and ordered to be printed. error. Mr. Fl..~LEY, by unanimous consent, introduced the following bill: A bill to Many MEMBERS. "Regular order! " transfer the office of Indian Affairs from the Interior to the War Department. Forty-sixth Congress, second sesRion: H. R. No 3439, (rPport No. 1393) In the Mr. FI~uEY. Oh, no. House of Representatives, January 12, 1880, read twice, referred to the Committee The CHAIR:\IAN. The Chair is willing to be corrected if in error. on Indian Affairs, and ordered to be printed; May S. 1880, reported with amend The Chair asked the Clerk for the amendment, and this bill was ments, referred to the Honse Calendar, and ordered lio be printoo. handed to him as such. Mr. WF.LLBOflN, by unanimous conseut, introduced the foDowin!!: bill: A bill to transfer the office of Indian Affairs from the Interior to the War Department. Mr. ~'l~"'LEY. It is altogether a different bill from mine as to the· time when the transfer shall be made. The CHAIRMAN. As to the point made by the gentleman from The CHAIRMAN. The Cha.ir is still of the opinion that the amend New York, [Mr. HiscocK,] the Vhairwonld say that the rules which ment is not in or The Clerk read as follows : of the Whole on the state of the Union had had nuder consideration Szc. 6. That the appropriations made by this bill shall be expended by the Gen the bill (II. R. No. 6730) making appropriations for the cnrrent and -eral of the Army instead of by the Secretary of the Interior. contingent expenses of the Indian Department, and for fulfilling treaty Mr. KEIFER. I raise the same point of order on that amendment. stipulations with various Indian tribes, for the year ending June 30, Mr. HASKELL. A dozen points of order lie against that amend 1882, and for other purposes, and had directed him to report the same ment. with sundry amendments. The CHAIRMAN. Does any gentleman wish to be heard on the Mr. WELLS.· I move the previous question on the bill and amend point of order f ments. Mr. HASKELL. I will simply raise the point of order that the The previous question was seconded, and the main question ordered. proposed amendment iB obnoxious to all the rules of the House, and The first amendml::lnt reported from the Committee of the Whole let it rest there. was read: as follows : Mr. FROST. I do not desire to argue this question, but I maintain At the end of line 641 add the following: that this is not in substance the same amendment, for it proposes no "And the money hereby appropriated, and all money heretofore appropriated t. transfer of the department, but simply substitutes one officer of the said Indians, being the Sacs and Foxes o.t the Iowa agency, and which has not been drawn by them. shall be paid to them when they shall sign a pay-roll by the Government for another. That it changes existing law I am free to head of each family, the correqtness of which pay-roll shall be certified by the agent confess, but at the same time it retrenches expenditures and is ger in charge of said Indians." mane to the bill. Mr. HISCOCK. How do yon know that it retrenchest-xpendituresf Mr. HOOKER. I move to lay this amendment on the table. Mr. FROST. For the same reason that the proposition just ruled ':(he SPEAKER.- That would carry the bill with it. out on a point of order would retrench expenditures. Mr. HOOKER. I do not care about that. I move to lay the amend Mr. HUMPHREY. There is too much" germanity" about it; that menton the table. What the consequences will be the Chair caD is the trouble. [Laughter.] decide. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of opinion that the point of order The SPEAKER. The Chair will submit the motion. is well taken, for the reason that the amendment does not retre-qch The motion of Mr. HOOKER was not agreed to. The amendment was then concurred in. expenditur.es, and it does very clearly chang~ existing law. The mere substitution of one officer for another officer, the change from ABUSE OF THE FRANKING PRIVILEGE. the Secretary of the Interior to the General of the Army, does not • The SPEAKER. The Chair announces the appointment as the reduce expenditures. This amendment, unlike thE) one offered by special committee authorized by resolution adopted this morning in the gentleman from Mississippi, [Mr. HooKER,] does not dispense reference to abuse of the franking privilege: Mr. CONVERSE of Ohio, with any of the officers of the Indian service, and therefore does not Mr. HOUSE of Tennessee, Mr. PHILIPS of Missouri, Mr. BROWNE of retrench expenditures. Other reasons ca.n be assigned for ruling out Indiana, and Mr. RoBINSO~ of Massachusetts. the amendment, but the one mentioned is sufficient. Mr. RYAN, of Kansas. I move to amend by adding the following INDIAN APPRQPRIA.TION BILL. as a new section: The next amendment was read, as follows: All advertisements fer contracts involving the expenditure of any money herein On pae:e 46, Btrike out lines 1113 to 1116, inelnsive, as follows: appropriated shall be made at least sixty days before a.ny such contract shall be "That all laws and parte of laws creating or authorizing the commission of ten awarded. citizens provided for in the act of April 10,1869, be, and the same are hereby, re pealed." Mr. HISCOCK. I make the same point of order upon this amend And in lieu thereof insert the following: ment. "For the expenses of the commission of citizens serving without compensation Mr. RYAN, of Kansas. I hope the gentleman will not insist on his appointed by the President under the provisions of the fourth section of the act of point of order, because the direct tendency of the amendment is to April10, 1869, $10,000." retrench expenditures by securing reasonable competition for the Mr. WELLS. I demand the yeas and nays on that amendment.· furnishing of supplies, which is now absolutely prevented by the The yeas and nays were orderetl. poliey that the Government pnrspes, giving not four weeks' notice Mr. GILLETTE. I move the Honse adjourn. by advertisement, and even that notice encumbered by conditions The Honse refused to adjourn. which render it almost impracticable for bids to be put in by parties The question was taken; and it was decided in the negative-yeas in the section of country where the supplies are produced. 107, nays 118, not voting 67; as follows: I Mr. HISCOCK. withdraw the point of order. YEAS-107. The amendment was adopted. Acklen, Daggett, • Humphrey, Robinson. Mr. HOOKER. I move to amend by adding to the bill the fol Aldrich, N. W. Davis, George R. Keifer, RU88ell, W. A.. lawing: Aldrich, William Davis, Hoi'I!.OO Ketcham, Ryan, Thomas Be it further enacted, That from and after the 1st day of July, 1881, the man Bailey, DeLaMatyr, Lapham, B.yon. John W. a,ooement and supervision of Indian affairs be, and the same is hereby, transferred Baker, Deering, Lindsey, Sapp, ' tD the War Department. Ballou, Dick. Loring, Sawver, Barber, Dunnell, Maran; Shallenberger, Mr. WELLS. I make the same point of order that has been matle Bayne, Felton, Martin, Joseph J. Sherwin, heretofore. Beltzhoover, Ferdon, Mason, Smitlt, A.. Herr Mr. HOOKER rose. Bbke, Field, McCook, Stone, Blount, Fisher, McGowan, Taylor, Ezra B. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is ready to decide the question with Bowman, Ford, McKinley, Thomas, out the necessit.y of argument. Boyd, Frye, lfilea, Thompson, W. G. Mr. HOOKER. If I knew what the decision of the Chair would Brewer, Gillette, :Mitchell, Townsend, Amos l9e, perhaps I would not say a word. [Laughter.] The Chair is Briggs, Godshalk. Monroe, Tyler, Brigham, Hall, Nea.l, U'"pdegra1f, J. T. aware of the fact that this question has arisen before; and I do not Browne, Hammond, John Newberry, Upde~ Thomas know that I can make it clearer than it iB made in prior adjudica Buckner, Hammond, N.J. Norcross, Van A.ernam, tions. .Burrows, Harmer, Osmer, VoorhiB, Butterworth, Harris, Benj. W. Overton. W't, 1.'he CHAffiMAN. The Chair is ready to decide the question. Carpenter, Haskell, Page, w:!.d, Mr. HOOKER. The Chair is not going to decide without hearing Chittenden. Hawk, Pound, Washburn, me, I presume. I want to call the attention of the Chair to the de Clafiin, Hawley, Prescott, Weaver, cision which has been made on this question. Colerick, Hayes, Price, Williams, 0. G. Conger. Heilman, Reed, Willits, The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has already considered the decision Cowgill, Henderson, Rice, Yocum. to which the gentleman refers, and is very clearly of opinion that the Crapo, Horr, Richardson, D.P. amendment is not in order. The mere change of dates in the propo sition does not alter the status of the question. NAYS-118. Davidson, IIooker, Muldrow, Mr. HOOKER. I desire simply to have read an adjudication of a !!;'d~~n, Davis, Joseph J. Hostetler, Muller, former chairman of the Committee of the Whole on this question so Bachman, Davis, Lowndea H. Holl.86, March. that it may be printed in the RECORD. I do not know whether the Berry, Denster, Hnll, New, present chairman is familiar with that decision; I presume he is ; Bicknell, Dibrell, Hunton, Nicholls, Dnnn, Hard, O'Connor, but, however that may be, I would like to ha.vo it read in connec- ~~:~~urn, Errett, Johnsten, O'Reilly, tion with the motion I have made. This iB the only decision that has Bonck, Evins, Jones, Persons, been made upon this question. Bragg, Finley, Kenna, Phelps, The CHAIRMAN. 'fhe request of the gentleman from Mississippi Cabell Forney, Kitchin, Philips, Forsythe, Klotz, Phister, can only be granted by unanimous consent, that question having 8!!!~~11, Fort, Knott, Poehler, passed from the consideration of the committee. [Cries of'' Regular Carlisls, Frost, Ladrl, Reagan, order!"] Clardy, Geddes, LeFevre, Richardson, ~. S. Mr. ROOKER. In' other words, the present chairman consents to Clark. John B. Gibson, Lowe, Richmond, Goode, Martin, Benj. F. Robertson, ~~g. ~-Clymer, Gunter, Martin, EdwardL. Ross, Mr. WELLS. I move that the committee rise and report the bill Coffroth, Harris, J oha T.. McLane, Rothwell, ·\o the House. Converse, Hatch, McMahon, Samford, The motion was agreed to. Cook, Henry, Mc.Millin, Scales, Herbert, :Hills, Shelley, The committee accoruing1y rose; and the Speaker having resumed 8~:~s. Herndon, Money, Simonton, ~e chair, Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois, reported that the Committee . Culberson, Hill. Morrison, Singleton, J. w. 542 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 11, Sin~rleton, 0. R. Stevenson, Upson, Williams, Thomas Smith, IIezekiah B. Taylor, Robert L. Valentine, Willis, NAYS-141. Smith, William E. Tillman, Vance, Wilson, Aiken, Dunn, Martin, Edward L. Singleton, Jas. W. Sparks, Townshend, R. W. Waddill, Wise, Bachman, Dunnell, McKinley, Singleton, 0. R. Speer, Tucker, Warner, W~ht. Bailey, Errett, McLano, Smith, Hezekiah B. Springer, Turner, Oscar Wells, Beltzhoover, Evins, McMahon, Smith, William E. Steele, Turner, Thomas Whiteaker, Berry, Finley, McMillin, Sparks, Bicknell, Forney, Miles, Speer, NOT VOTING-67. Blackburn, Forsythe, Mills Springer, Blake, Fort, Mon~y . Stevenson, .Armfit~ld, Dickey, Kimmel, Scoville, Blount, Frost, Dwi~ht, Morse, ·raibott, .Atherton, King, Slemons, Bonck, ~des, .Atkins, Einstein, Lounsbery, Starin, Muldrow, Taylor, Ezm B. Bragg, Gibson, Muller, Taylor, Robert L. Barlow, Elam, Manning, Stephens, Burrows, Goode, Beale, Ellis, McCoid, Murch, Thomas, Talbott, Cabell. Gunter, :New, Belford, Ewin~. McKenzie, Thompson, B. Thompson, P. B. r. Caldwell. Hammond, N. J. Nicholls, Thompson, Wm. G. Bingham, Hazelton. Miller, Urner, Calkins, Harmer, :Bliss, Henkle, Morse, Van Voorhis, O'Connor, Tillman, Cannon, Harris,JohnT. O'Reilly, Townshend, R. W. Bright, Hiscock, Morton, Wellborn, Carlisle, Hatch, Calkins, IIonk, M:vers, White, Overton, Tur.ker, Claflin, Henry, Persons, 'furner, Oscar Camp, Hubbell, O'Brien, Whitthorne, Clardy, Herbert, Caswell. Hutchins, O'Neill, Wilber Phelps, Turner, Thomas Clark, John B. Herndon, Philips, Upde~J.T. Chalmers, .James. Orth, Wood, Fernando Clements, Hill, Clark, .Alvah .A. Jorgensen, Pacheco, Wood, Walter .A_ Phister Upson. Clymer, Hooker, Poehle-r=, Vl11entine, Young, Casey Coffroth, Horr, Reagan., Vance, g~~~~ i?Jf:y, ~~~SOD, Young, Thomas L. Conger, Hostetler, Crowley, Killinger, Russell, DanielL. Richardson, J. S. Waddill, Con>erse, House, Richmond, Warner, , So the am~ndment was disagreed to. Cook, Hull, Robertson, Washburn, Covert. Hunton, Ross, Wells, During the roll· call the following announcements were made: Cowgill, Hurd, Rothwell, Whiteaker, Mr. WHITTHORNE. Iwithdrawmyvote, being paired with Mr. Crapo, Kenna, Ryan, Thomas Whitthorne, MORSE, of Massachusetts. He would vote" ay," and I would vote Cravens, Ketcham, Ryon, John W. Williams, Thomas "no." Davidson, Kirohin, Samford, WilliR, Davis, George R. Klotz, Sawyer, Wilson, Mr. SAMFORD. Mr. SLEMONs's name is recorded as voting "no." • Davis, Joseph J. Knott, ScaJcs, Wright. He is paired with Mr. MILLER. Davis, Lowndes H. ·Ladd, Shallenberger, Mr. CALKINS. Is General.M.A!\~'ING recorded f Deuster, Le Fevre, Shelley, The SPEAKER. He is not. The notice of his pa,ir is :filed with the Dibrell, Loring, Simonton, Clerk. NOT VOTll\G-7i. Mr. TALBOTT. I withdraw my vote, as I am paired with Mr. UR .Ackleu, Crowley, Killinger, Russell, DanielL. NER. .A.rmfield, Da,:gett, Kimmel, Scoville, The following pairs were read from the Clerk's desk: .Atherton, Dickey. IDn,g, Slemons, Mr. l.\l.rLLER with Mr. SLEMONS, for this day and to-morrow, Mr. .Atkins, Dwi~lit, L'lpham, Starin, Barlow, Einstein, Lounsbery, Steele, SLEMONS reserving the right to vote to make a quorum. Beale, Elam, Manning, Stephens, Mr. JAMEs wit.h Mr. O'BRIEN, on this vote. Belford, Ellis, Martin, Benj. F. Urner, Mr. CHALMERS with Mr. VAN VOORHIS. Bingham, Ewing, McCoid, Van .Aernam, Mr. ROBESON with Mr. McKENZIE, for ten da;v.:s. Bland, Hammond, John McKenzie, Van Voorhis, Bliss, Hayes, Miller, Wellborn, Mr. BELFORD with Mr. 'VELLBOR..~. • Bowman, Hazelt~n. l\fonison, White Mr. SAPP with Mr. CLARDY, on political questiolls. Bright, Henkle, Morton, Wilbe~, Mr. MYERS with Mr. 0RTH. Buckner, ffiscock, Myers, Wise, Mr. BE:ALE with Mr. JORGENSEN. Camp, Honk, Neal, Wood, Fernando Caswell, Hubbell, O'Brien, Wood, Walter A. Mr. HUBBELL with Mr. WELLs, on political questions. Chalmers, Hutchins, O'Neill, Young, Casey Mr. CALKL.~S with Mr. MAN:t~.'ING. Clark, .Alvah .A. James, Orth, Young, Thomas L. Mr. YOUNG, of Tennessee, with Mr. Houx. Cobb, Jorgensen, Pacheco, Coleriok, .Joyce, Prescott, Mr. ARl\-IFIELD with Mr. EINSTEIN. Cox, Kelley, Robeson, Mr. HiscocK with Mr. Conn. Mr. STARIN with Mr. HUTCHINS. So the Honse refused to adjourn. Mr. BINGHAM with Mr. ELLIS. The following additional pairs were announced: Mr. DWIGHT with Mr. EWING. Mr. BROWNE with Mr. HUNTO~, for the balance of this legislativ~ Mr. TALBOTI with Mr. URNER. day. Mr. SAPP. The pair between myself and Mr. CLARDY ceased on Mr. BAKER with Mr. ATKINS, who is detained at home by sick-ness, his arrival. He has been here two days. I met him, and the pair is for the balance of this day. . at an end. The result of the vote was then announced as above recorded. Mr. BEALE. As I am announced 38 paired with Mr. JORGEXSEN, The SPEAKER. The question now recurs on the motion of the I withdraw my vote. gentleman from Illinois to lay on the table the motion to reconsider: .Mr. PAGE. Mr. HAzELTON, of Wisconsin, is detained at his room Mr. ANDERSON. I withdraw the motion to reconsider. by illness. The SPEAKER. The amendment having been rejected, the ques Mr. WAIT. Mr. JoYCE is detained at home by sickness and is tion now recurs on the next amendment reported from the Committee unable to be in the House. . of the Whole, which the Clerk will report. Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. Mr. EWING is also detained by The Clerk read as follows : sickness. In line 47, page 5, strike out the word" fiscal," and in line 6 strike out the word Mr. ANDERSON. I move to reconsider the vote by which the "two" and insert "one." amendment was rejected. Mr. WELLS. · These are mere verbal amendments. Mr. SPRINGER. I move that motion be laid n'Pon the table. The amendments were agreed to. Mr. ANDERSON. I move the Honse do now adjourn. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the next amendment pro- The House divided; and there were-ayes 82, noes 97. posed by the Committee of the Whole. Mr. ANDERSON demanded the yeas and nays. The Clerk read. as follows: The yeas and nays were ordered. Insert as the sixth section the following: The question was taken; and decided in the negative-yeas 7 4, nays 141, not voting 77; as follows: Mr. HOOKER. I move that the Honse do now adjourn. The motion was not agreed to. YEA..S-74. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read the proposed amendment. .Aldrich, N. ,V, Dick, Keifer, Richardson, D. P. The Clerk read as follows : · .Aldrich, William FPlton, Lindsey, Robinson, .Anderson, Ferdon, Lowe, Russell, William A. SEc. 6 . .AU advertisements for contracts involving the expenditure of any money Baker, :Field, Marsh, Sapp, herein appropriat~d shall be made at least sixty days before any such contract is Ballou, Fisher, .Martin, Joseph J. Sherwin, awarded . Barber, Ford, Mason, Smith, .A.. Herr .Bayne, Frye, McCook, Stone, Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Tilinois. There was no separate vote de Boyd, Gillette, M~wan, Townsend, .Amos manded upon that amendment. Brewer, Godshalk, Mit-chell. Tyler, The amendment was agreed to. Briggs, Hall. Monroe, Updegraff, Thomas The bill, as amended, was ordered to be engrossed and read a third Brigham, Harris, Benj. W. Newberry, Voorliis, Browne, Haskell, Norcross, Wait, time; and being engrossed, it was accordingly read the ~bird time. Butterworth, Hawk, Osmer, Ward, Mr. WELLS. I demand the previons question on the passage of Carpenter, Hawley, Page, Weaver, the bill. Chittenden, Heilman, Ponnd, Williams, C. G. Culberson, Henderson, Price, Willits, The previous question was seconded and the main question or Davis, Horace, Humphrey, Ray, Yoonm. dered. DeLa:Matyr, Johnston, Iteed, The SPEAKER. The Clerk will call the roll on the passage of the Deering, Jone' Ri~e. bill. 1881. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 543" 187 12 t ommend that a suitable appropriation be made to en.able this Government to accept The questioB was tak en; and there were-yeas ' nays ' no the fore~oing invitation by appointing one or more delegates to attend the congress voting 93 ; as follows : in question. YEAS-187. R. 1!. HAYES. Aldrich, N. W. Dnnnell, Loring, Sawyer, EXECUTIVE MA.XSIOY, Januar'lj 10, 1881. Aldrich, William Errett, Marsh, Scales, List of accompanying papers : Anderson, Evins, l!artin, Edward L. Shallenberger, No.1. :Mr. Outrey to .Mr. Evarts, December 23,1880, with an inclosure-transla Bachman, Felton, Martin, Joseph J. Shelley, tions. Bailey, Field, Mason, Sherwin, No.2. Mr. Noyes to :Mr. Evarts, December 10, 1880, dispatch No. 15, with its in Ballou, Finley, :McCook, Simonton, closures-copies. narber, Fisher, McKinley, Singleton, J. W. Beltzhoovor, Ford, McLane, Sin_gleton. 0. R. The SPEAKER. The communication will be printed and referred Berry, Forney, .McMahon, Smith, A. Herr to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. llicknell, Forsythe, McMillin, Smith, Hezekiah B. Blackburn, Fort, Miles, Smith, William E. EMPLOYES OF STATE DEPARTMENT. Blake, Frost, 1J.ills, Sparks, The SPEAKER, by unanimous consent, laid before the House a. let Blount, Frye, Mitchell, Speer, ter from the Secretary of State, transmitting, in accordanc~ with law, Boock, Geddes, Money, ~ptinp;er. Boyd, Gibson, Monroe, Stevenson, the names of all clerks and other employes of that Department and Bragg, Gillette, Morse, Stone, the amount of salary paid to each of them; which was referred to Briggs, Goode, Muldrow, Talbott, the Committee on Expenditures in the Department of State, and Burrows Gunter, Muller, Taylor, Ezra B. ordered to be printed. But-terworth, Hall, New, Taylor Robert L. Cabell, Hammond, John Newberry, Thomas, · EXPE...~SES OF Th"'DEPENDE~"'T TREASURY. Caldwell, Hammond, N.J. Nicholls, Thompson, P. B. The SPEAKER also, by unanimous consent, laid b~fore the Honse Calkins, Harmer, Norcross, Thompson, W. G. Cannon, Hams, Benj. W. O'Uonnor, Tillman, a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, recommending an in Carlisle. Harris, John T. O'Reilly, Townsend, .Amos crease in the appropriation for contingent expenses of the indepen Carpenter, Haskell, Osmer, Townshend, R. W. dent treasury and for printing and engraving; which was referred Clatlin, Hatch, Overton, Tucker, to the Committee on Appropriations. Clardy, Hawley, rap;e, Turner, Thomas Clark, John B. Henderson, Persons, Updegraff, J. T'. TRADE-MARKS. Clymer, Henkle, Phelps, Uprle~ Thomas by Philips, Upson, The SPEAKER also, unanimous consent, laid before the House Coffroth, Henry, a resolution of the Chamber of Commerce of the State of New York, Colerick, HHill~rbe~ Phister, Valentine, CQnger, Poehler, Vance, in reference to trade-marks; which was referred to the Committee Converse, Bis~ck, Ponnd, Voorhis, on Patents. Cook, Horr, Ray, Waddill, GENEVA AWARD. Uovert, Hostetler, Reagan, Wait, Cowgill, Ilouse, Reed, Warner, The SPEAKER also, by nnanimous consent, laid before the Honse Crapo, llull, Rice, wa~hburn, a resolution from the Chamoor of Commerce of the State of New Cravens, Hrunpb.rey, Richardson, J. S. Wells, York, in reference to the distribntion of the Geneva award; which Davidson, Johnston, PJ.chmond, Whiteaker, Davia, George R. Keifer, Robertson, Whitthorne, was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. Davis, Horace Kenna, Robinson, Williams, C. G. RAILROAD THROUGH FORT BLISS RESERVATION. Davia, Lowndes ll, Ketcham, Ross, Williams, Thonms De La Matyr, Klotz, Rothwell, The SPEAKER also, by unanimous consent, laid before the House Deuster, Knott, Russell, W . .A. ~llif~ a letter from the Secretary of War, relative to railroads constructed Dibrell, Ladd, Ryan, Thomas Wilson: through Fort Bliss military reservation; which was referred to the Dick, LeFevre, Ryon, John W. Yocum. Dunn, JJindsey, 8app, Committee on Military Affairs. YAYS-12. LLOYD'S HARBOR, LO~G ISL.Uo"'D. Aiken, Culberson, Hooker, Kitchin, The SPEAKER also, by unanimous consent, laid before the House Bayne, Davis, Joseph J. Hurd, Turner, Oscar a letter from the Secretary of War, transmitting a report of the sur Clements, Herndon, Jones, Ward. vey of the channel between Lloyd's Harbor and Cold Spring Bay, :NOT VOTING-93. Long Island, New York; which was referred to the Committee on Ackleni Cro.wley, Kimmel, Russell, Daniel L. Commerce, and ordered to be printed. Armfie d, Daggett, Kin~. Samford, Atherton, Deering, . Lapham, Scoville, TAX ON BA..."m: DEPOSITS AND CAPITAL. Atkins, Dickey, Lounsbery, Slemous, The SPEAKER also, by unanimous consent, laid before the House Baker, Dwight, Lowe, Starin, a resolution from the Merchants' Exchange of Indianapolis, Indiana, Barlow, Einstein, ::Mannin~. Steele, Beale, Elam, Martin, Benj. F. Stephens, in favor of the abolishment of the special tax levied on the capital Belford, l~llis, McCoid, Tylor, and deposits of banks and bankers, and recommending the repeal of Bingham, Ewing, McGowan, rrrner, the Jaw levying a tax on bank checks; which was referred to the Bland, Ferdon, McKenzie, VanAernam, Committee on Ways and .l\Ieans. Bliss, Godshalk, Miller, Van Voorhis, Bowman, Hawk, Morrison, Weaver, LEAVE OF ABSL""CE. Brewer Jlayes, Morton, Wellborn, By nnanimons consent, leave of absence was granted to Mr. EWING Brigham, Hazelton, Murch, White, Bright, Heilman, Myers, Wilber, indefinitely, on account of sickness. Browne, Honk, NeaL Wise, Buckner, Hubbell, O'Brien, Wood, Fernanuo ~~RSTATE CO~RCE. Camp, Hunton, O'Neill, Wood, Walter .A. Mr. UPSON. :Mr. Speaker, I ask consent to print in the RECORD n. Caswell, Hutchins, Orth, Wright, proposed amendment to the interstate-commerce bill introduced by Chalmers, James, Pacheco, Yonng, Casey Mr. HENDERSON, and also some remarks upon the snbject. Chittenden, Jorgensen, Prescott, Yonng, Thomas L. Clark, Alvah A. Joyce, Price, There being no objection, it was ordered accordingly. [See Appen Cobb, Kelley, Richardson, D.P. dix.] Co:r, Killinger, P.obeson, REFUNDING THE NATIONAL DEBT. So the bill was passed. Mr. BREWER. 1\Ir. Speaker, I ask consent to print in the RECORD The following additional pairs were announced: of to-morrow morning a. proposition I desire to offer aa an amendment Mr. SAMFORD with Mr. TYLER. to the funding bill. Mr. URNER with Mr. ATKINS, for the balance of this day. There being no objection, it was ordered accordingly. Mr. WRIGHT with Mr. CmTIENDE..~, for this day. The proposed. amendment is as follows: The result of the vote was then announced as above recorded. Strike out all of section 1 after the word" debt," in line H, and insert the fol Mr. WELLS moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was lowing: passed; and also moved to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. "That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized to issue Treasury notes to the amount of $300,000,000, in denominations of not less than $10, The latter motion was agreed to. bearing mterest at a rate not exceeding 3.65 per cent. per annum, redeemable at any ~A.TIONAL CONGRESS OF ELECTRICI.A..."iS. time at the pleasure of the Government after the 1st day of July, 1882, and payable ten years from date of issue; and also to issue bonds to the amount of $337,000,000, The SPEAKER. The Chair desires to lay before the Honse a. com bearing interest at a rate not exceeding 3! per cent. per annum, redeemable at the munication from the Prei!ident. pleasure of the Government at anytime after the 1st day of Jnly, 1885, and be The Clerk read as follows : made payable fifteen yea.rsfrom the date of issue, which said bonds and notes shall be sold at not less than their par value; and the proceeds from such sales shall be ap· To t1l.e HOUBe of Representatives: plied to the payment of the bonds of the United States which become payable or I submit herewith, for the information of the House of Representatives, copies redeemable during the year 1881." of correspondence with the Department of State, relating to an invitation extended by the French R.P-nublic to this Government to send one or more delegates to rep. WITHDRAWAL OF PAPERS. resent it at an international congress of electricians, to be held at Paris on the l 5th By unanimous consent, !llr. WILLIAU 4. RussELL obtained leave to day of September, 1!:!81. It appears from the same correspondence that an inter withdraw from the files of the House papers in.the pension case of national exhibition of electricity is to be held at the Palace Of the Champs Elys6es, in Paris, from Au~t 15, l&ll, to the 15th of November following; and it is there Oliver L. Wheeler; also, Mr. BoYD, in the case of Joseph F. Wilson, fore suggested by the French authorities that it might be well to invest the dele and Mr. BREWER, in the caso of Hiram Smith. gates selected to take part in the international congress with the additional char Mr. SIMONTO~. ~Ir. Speaker, in -those cases I presnme it is un acter of commissioners to the international exhibition of electricity. In view of the important scientific, industrial, and commercial int.erests desisned derstood that there are no a.dverse reports. to be promoted by the proposed international congress of electricians and exnibi The SPEAKER. That is under the rn1e. Certified copies of the tion of electricity, I submit the subject to your favorable consideration, and rec- papers must be left. 544 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 12, Mr. McMILLIN. I move that the Honse do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at five o'clock and IN SENATE. fifteen minutes p. m.) the House adjourned. WEDNESDAY, January 12, 1881. PETITIONS, ETC. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. J. J. BULLOCK, D. D. The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. The following :petitions and others papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, onder the role, and referred as follows, viz : EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS. By the SPEAKER: The petition of certain citizens of Washington, The VICE-PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a lett.er from the District of Colombia, that certain taxes now standing against the Secretary of the Interior, transmitting an estimate of appropriation Saint Vincent's Orphan Asylum be remitted-to the Committee on for the survey and subdivision of Indian reservations, to become im the District of Colombia. m~di~tely available; which was referreu to the Committee on Appro By Mr. AIKEN: The petition of the Board of Trade of Colombia, pr1at10ns. Sonth Carolina, for an appropriation to improve Broad River-to the He also laid before the Senate a letter from the Secretary of the CoDJmittee on Commerce. Treasury, transmitting, in compliance with a resolution of the 21st By Mr. BAYNE: A communication from Hon. J. H. Hopkins, relat ultimo, copies of all papers in his office relative to the settlement of ing to the improvement of Yonghiogheny River-to the same com the accounts of Dexter E. Clapp, late agent of the Crow Indians, mittee. Montana. Territory; which, on motion of Mr. INGALLS, was referred By Mr. BLISS: The petition of W. H. Rogers, John H. Bogert, and to the Committee on Indian Affairs, and ordered to be printed . .others, of Canarsie, New York, for the passage of Senate bill No. 496, YORKTOWN CENTE.."QUAL CELEBRATION. as amended, relating to pensions-to the Committee on Invalid Pen The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Chair lays before the Senate a joint sions. resolution of the House of Representatives for reference. By Mr. CLYMER: The petition of 49 citizens of Berks County, The joint resolntion (H. R. No. 337) authorizing and requesting the Pennsylvania, of similar import~ to the same committee. President to extend to the Government and people of France an in By Mr. COLERICK: Papers relating to claim of John B. White vitation to join the Government and people of the United States in the to the Commit.tee on Claims. observance of the centennial anniversary of the surrender of Lord By Mr. COOK: The petition of citizens of Montgomery Connty, Corn wallis at Yorktown, Virginia., was read twice by its title. Georgia, for a post-route from Lorn ber City to Clark's Bluff, via Sylvan The VICE-PRESIDENT. The joint resolution will be referred to Home, Georgia-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. the Committee on Foreign Relations. By l\1r. COVERT: The petition of John R. Mather and 453 others, Mr. ANTHONY. Is there any appropriation in the joint resolution f citizens of Suffolk County, New York, for the improvement of Port 'il'he VICE-PRESIDENT. There is not, the Chair is informed by .Jefferson Harbor, Long Island-to the Committee on Commerce. the Secretary. By Mr. COX: The petition of J. T. !.lewellen and 379 others, citi Mr. ANTHONY. I hope the committee will report it back with an zens of Missouri, t;hat a bounty be paid farmers for raising hogs, appropriation. It seems to be very inhospitable to invit-e people to calves, &c., and that a tax be levied for that pnrpose on certain man our house and give them nothing to eat. ufactures-to the Committee on Ways and Means. Mr. DAWES. Should not the joint resolution go to the special By Mr. DAVIDSON: The petition of Paul Boyden and 18 others, committee appointed in reference to the Yorktown celebration f ·Citizens of Warrington, Florida, for the amendment of the pension The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Chair supposed not. He will, how iaws-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. ever, accept any suggestion from Senators. Also, the petition of·;J. B. Carrin and 100 oth.ers, citizens of Florida, Mr. DA'VES. I have no choice myself, but it originated with that for the establishment of a post-route from Stephensville to Old Town, committee. · Florida-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. The VICE-PRESIDENT. It is an invitation to a foreign govern By Mr. GUNTHER: The petition of George H. Mitchell, for relief ment. to the Committee on Military Affairs. Mr. DAWES. I am aware of that, bot there is a special joint com By Mr. HULL: The petit.ion of citizens of Florida, for an income mittee of the two Houses to take that matter in charge. That com tax-to the Commit.tee on Ways and Means. mittee produced the joint resolution, and it was reported in the other Also, the petition of citizens of Florida, that the Commissioner of branch, I believe, by that oommittee. I know it originated wit1t Agricnlture be made a member of the President's Cabinet-to the them. Committee on Agriculture. Mr. WHYTE. That is correct. It onght to go to the Joint Select Also, the petition of citizens of Florida, for legislation on the sub Committee on the Yorktown Centennial Celebration. Ject of interst.ate comme:..·oo-to the Committee on Commerce. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Chair accepts that suggestion, antl Also, the petition of citizens of Florida, for the amendment of the it will be so referred. patent laws-to the Committee on Patents. By Mr. KENNA: The petition of Henry Barton, for an increase of PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS. pension-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Mr. WILLIAMS presented the petition of William Brown and others, By Mr. NORCROSS: The petition of Nathan A. Freeland and 40 of Nicholasville, Kentucky ; the petition of William Goodloe and .others, of Fitchbnrgh, Massachusetts, that soldiers discharged on ac others, of Danville, Kentucky; the petition of C. C. Cram and others, count of disease receive the same bounty as those discharged for of Williamstown, Kentucky; the petition of 0. S. Deming and others, wounds-to the Committee on Military Affairs. of Mount Olivet, Kentucky; the petition of James C. Cantrill and By Mr. OSMER: The petition of Emry Davis and 16 others, for the others, of Georgetown, Kentucky; and the petition of P. S. Ford and .repeal of the stamp tax on proprietary medicines-to the Committee others, of Paris, Kentucky, praying for a division of the United States on Ways and Means. judicial district of Kentucky by the creation of a new district; which Also, the petit.ion of A. P. Nichols and 26 others, of Pennsylvania, were referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. of similar import-to the same committee. Mr. EDMUNDS presented the petition of William Heine, late col By Mr. JOHN W. RYON: Two petitions of citizens of Schuylkill onel One hundred and third New York Volunteers and brevet brig County, Pt'lnnsylvania, for the passage of Senate bill No. 496-to the adier-general, praying for the passage of a bill granting him an in 'Committee on Invalid Pen&ions. crease of pension ; which waa referred to the Committee on Pensions. By Mr. STARIN: The petition of David F. Ritchi~ and others, of Mr. DAVIS, of West Virginia, presented the petition of John John Saratoga Springs, New York, of similar import-to the same commit son and others, citizens of West Virginia., praying for the passage of tee. the bill now before Congress making the Commissioner of Agricult By Mr. RICHARD W. TOWNSHEND: The petition of A. H. Mc ure a member of the Presiuent'a Cabinet; which was referred to the 'Lure, Robert G.raham, and others, oitizens of Franklin Connty, llli Committee on Agriculture. .nois, for an income tax-to the Committee on Ways and Means. He also presented the petition of Levi Baker and others, citizens By Mr. TYLER: The petition of Ebenezer Mornll and 22 others, of of West Virginia, praying for congressional legislation upon the sub 'West Barnet; of John H. Maxfield and 56 others, of Fairfax; of ject of interstate commerce; which was referred tothe Committee on Ruel Sawins and :39 others, of East Charlestown; of Alvin N. Farr Transportation Routes to the Seaboard. and 12 others, of Burlington; of Silas Parker and 8 others, of Gro He also presented the petition of E. J. Taylor and others, citizens ton, and of George A. Spencer and 20 others, citizens of West Charles of West Virginia, praying for the passage of a bill levying an income town, Vermont, that soldiers discharged for disease receive the same tax; which was referred to the Committee on Finance. bounty as those discharged on account of wounds-to the Committee Mr. KERNAN presented the petition of Henry Purcell, of New on Military Affairs. York, praying for payment of services as second lieutenant in the By Mr. THOMAS UPDEGRAFF: The petition of C. A. Dean and Army from May 30 to November 25, 1864; which was ~eferred to the 92otbers, citizens of Clayton County, Iowa, of similar import-to the Committee on .Military Affairs. same committee. He also presented the petition of Eugene C. Johnson, of Albany, By Mr. VANCE: The. petition of Earl A. Russell anu others, for a New York, praying compensation for services in the Army during tho ·post-route from Lynch to Lemon's Gap, North Carolina-to the Com late war; which was referred to the Committee on Milita-ry Affairs. mittee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. Mr. PLATT pre!!euted the petition of the Union Mannfacturing By Mr. CASEY YOUNG: The petitiou of citizens of Shelby County, Company, praying for the passage of a national bankrupt law; which Tennessee, for the passage of an income~ta.x law-to the Committee was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. 'to inquire into the Cauaes of the present Depression of Labor. Mr. BROWN presented a petition of citizens of Agosta, Georgia,