Thursday Volume 593 26 February 2015 No. 114

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 26 February 2015

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2015 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 443 26 FEBRUARY 2015 444

Will the Secretary of State be raising this issue with House of Commons FIFA? Will he be discussing it with other European Sports Ministers? Thursday 26 February 2015 Sajid Javid: A few years ago when it was first announced that the 2022 World cup would be held in Qatar, my son The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Suli, who was 10 at the time, said to me, “How are they going to hold this competition in such blazing heat?” If PRAYERS my 10-year-old son knew that, I do not know why Sepp did not. We take a close interest in this, but ultimately the decision has to be made by the relevant football [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] authorities.

BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): Previous TV deals with the Premier League have not resulted in TRANSPORT FOR LONDON BILL [LORDS] comparable increases in funding for the grass roots and Consideration of Bill, as amended, opposed and deferred football family. Does the Secretary of State accept that until Thursday 5 March (Standing Order No. 20). the only way of guaranteeing future funding is for this Parliament to legislate to ensure that 5% of Premier League revenue goes to the grass-roots and football Oral Answers to Questions family? Sajid Javid: I do not accept that there is a need for legislation. What there is a need for is a continued and CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT active dialogue between Government and the Premier League to make sure that its investment in grass-roots The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport football continues. As I said, given the recent news that was asked— the Premier League had of a windfall, we should encourage Grass-roots Sport it to do more.

1. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): What Film Festivals recent discussions he has had with the Premier League on funding for grass-roots sport. [907737] 2. Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op): What assessment he has made of the role The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport of film festivals in promoting the creative industries in (Sajid Javid): The Under-Secretary of State, my hon. the UK. [907739] Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), who is responsible for sport, and I have The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport regular discussions with the Premier League and the (Sajid Javid): Film festivals make a valuable contribution Football Association. Together we work in partnership to promoting the film economy and enhancing the to ensure that funding for grass-roots football remains cultural life of the UK. In addition to running two strong. festivals of its own, the BFI, as the Government’s lead agency for film, provides £1 million of lottery funding Grahame M. Morris: I thank the Secretary of State each year to support film festivals right across the UK. for his answer, but does he recognise that there is a growing crisis in grass-roots football, in terms of facilities, Tom Greatrex: I thank the Secretary of State for that pitch quality and fees, which local authorities have reply. I am sure he will be aware that one festival the often been increasing because of local government cuts? BFI helps to fund is the Glasgow film festival, the UK’s Will he back Labour’s call for the Premier League to use third largest and best festival, which is under way in some of its new windfall to meet its 5% commitment to Glasgow and is finishing on Sunday with the UK fund grass-roots football? premier of “Force Majeure”. He has talked about the Sajid Javid: I join the hon. Gentleman in his suggestion BFI funding, but given that the BFI’s grant in aid that there should be more investment in grass-roots budget will be 10% lower next year than it was last year, football, and he will know that the Government allocated what is he going to do to ensure that film festivals such more money in the last autumn statement. Together as Glasgow’s continue to get that vital support? with the Premier League and Football Association money, that is £100 million of new money going into grass-roots Sajid Javid: Like the hon. Gentleman, I am delighted football over the next three years. On his point about about the Glasgow film festival, which I believe is in its the Premier League, I should say, first, that the Premier 10th year and which is going from strength to strength. League already does a lot—I welcome that and we He will know that it has received funding: it has been should all commend it. However, with the recent increase awarded £25,000 by the BFI this year, which is a good in its finances, we can all expect it to do more. result. As well as the grant in aid funding, the BFI has access to lottery funding, which it is using wisely. That is Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): Moving partly reflected in the success of British film: just last the FIFA World cup in 2022 to the winter could have year we had a record year of investment in British film significant financial consequences for the Premier League and of success, and I am sure that he would join me in and for all levels of football in England and Europe. welcoming that. 445 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 446

Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): Of course a Mark Lazarowicz: I can tell the Secretary of State Shropshire film festival would be very welcome indeed. that thousands of people in my constituency, one of the Is the Secretary of State aware of a recent decision by most urban in Scotland, have no guarantee of getting Gapictures, which was due to film “Dracula” on location superfast broadband by 2017 or any date after that. I in Shropshire, to switch to another European country? have raised this with local government, the Scottish Given that Shropshire has been home to many famous Government and the UK Government. I do not want to films, including, more recently “Atonement”, will the ascribe blame; I want to see some action so that the Secretary of State look at new ways in which the United residents who have contacted me again and again, such Kingdom can keep those production companies that as the ones in Western Harbour, Leith who contacted want to film in locations such as Shropshire, rather than me recently, will have some guarantee that they will get have them switch to other European countries? superfast broadband in their houses. Mr Speaker: We assume the hon. Gentleman is not auditioning for the lead role in the said film. Sajid Javid: The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the importance of superfast broadband both to residents Sajid Javid: If my hon. Friend had auditioned, a and to businesses. Considerable progress has been made different decision might have been made! in his constituency in the past five years. Today, 87% of There has been an increase in the number of films made homes and businesses there have access to superfast in the regions of the UK. “Dracula Untold” was recently broadband. That will rise to 98% by 2017, and that is made in Northern Ireland. We have had “Outlander” in better than the national target of 95% by that time. Scotland, “Testament of Youth”in Yorkshire and “Far However, I hear what he says, and he is right to mention from the Madding Crowd”, which is set in Dorset, to the importance of the issue. name but a few, so there has been great success in regional films. What my hon. Friend says about Shropshire Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): The villages of is quite right. There are some fantastic locations and Affetside and Holcombe in my constituency will not be there is some fantastic talent in Shropshire, and I think covered by the roll-out of superfast broadband in phases 1 the film industry should be listening. or 2, so when villagers ask me when they will be Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab): covered, what should I tell them? In a week when we have seen British success at the Oscars and London Fashion Week, and last night at the Sajid Javid: My hon. Friend raises a very important Brits, no one should be in any doubt about the importance point. He should tell those villagers that the Government of our film, fashion and music industries and all our have an active programme to reach the most remote creative industries. The basis of future jobs and investment areas with superfast broadband. He will be interested to in those creative industries depends on the protection of know that in the middle of last year we undertook a intellectual property. Will the Secretary of State ensure pilot, with seven projects using mostly wireless and that, in consideration of the European digital single other types of hybrid technology. We are now having a market, he will be absolutely vigilant to protect our good look at the results of that pilot, and I shall be able creative industries, including small and medium-sized to make a further announcement shortly. enterprises, and ensure that he rethinks the paper that the Prime Minister sent to Juncker, which would allow Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Businesses for changes that would pose a real threat to many in my constituency, from farmers in Carrington to independent projects? Will he insist that there is time for multi-million pound exporters on Trafford Park, complain proper consultation before its implementation? that they are still waiting for superfast broadband. They Sajid Javid: The right hon. Lady is right about the are paying 10 times the price for one fifth of the speed, importance of intellectual property to our creative industries. with a damaging effect on their business. These are not One of the reasons why we have been successful in this remote rural areas; they are a stone’s throw from Manchester area for many years is that as a Government we have city centre. Can the Secretary of State explain why they taken the right approach. It is right that the EU looks at are waiting so long for the basic support that their the issue. It will be a good thing in principle for the businesses need? creative industries throughout Europe to have a better single digital market, but we must take a well-balanced Sajid Javid: There has been a significant improvement approach. The paper that the right hon. Lady refers to in superfast broadband access over the past five years. was a discussion paper. The Government have not Coverage throughout the UK has doubled from 40% to decided on their final policy or approach, and there 80%. We have the best coverage among large EU nations should be more consultation. and the highest average speeds, as well as the lowest Superfast Broadband average prices in Europe, but we can still do better. In urban areas, it is difficult, if not sometimes impossible, 3. Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) for the Government to provide a subsidy, as they do in (Lab/Co-op): For what proportion of parliamentary non-commercial areas, but I am looking actively at constituencies the 95% target for the roll-out of what more we can do in urban areas. superfast broadband will be reached by 2017. [907741] The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): The experience (Sajid Javid): Ninety-five per cent. of the UK will have of my constituents this winter is that it is too easy for access to superfast broadband by 2017. I have placed BT to declare MBORC—matters beyond our reasonable our estimate of coverage by constituency in the House control—and then to take months to repair faults, or of Commons Library. not turn up for appointments. Will the Secretary of 447 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 448

State examine BT’s licensing conditions with a view to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, tightening up the rules so that it cannot just use the Media and Sport (Mrs Helen Grant): The tourism industry MBORC cop-out? was worth an estimated £127 billion, gross value added, to the UK economy in 2013. Some £56 billion of that is Sajid Javid: This important issue has been raised direct contribution. Tourism supports 3.1 million jobs several times, and Ofcom frequently looks at the role of in the UK. organisations such as BT to ensure that the market is as competitive as possible. However, I will take a closer Christopher Pincher: The economy of Staffordshire look at the situation in my hon. Friend’s area. and Tamworth has a growing leisure and tourism component, but that is putting an increasing strain on 14. [907755] Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) our transport infrastructure. Will my hon. Friend encourage (Lab): I have been working with the Altrincham and the Department for Transport and Staffordshire county Sale chamber of commerce, which tells me that it is council to invest in local roads so that they will be fit for vital that businesses club together to ensure that our leisure economy? communication nodes go to more remote parts, even in urban areas. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is Mrs Grant: Last December, as my hon. Friend knows, vital that businesses co-operate to ensure that they can the Government announced £1.4 billion for road investment get the broadband they need? in the midlands, creating about 900 new construction jobs for the area. That will help to support the leisure Sajid Javid: I do agree with the hon. Gentleman. He industry in the whole of the region, including Tamworth. will know that we offer vouchers for businesses in more than 22 cities under the superconnected cities programme, Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) of which more than 10,000 companies have taken (Lab): Tourism makes an important contribution to the advantage. Many of the companies have clubbed together north-east’s economy, but north-east tourism attractions and I encourage others to do so. and projects are missing out on European funding. Will the Minister intervene to support job creation and Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Villages in growth in the region? the borough of Kettering on the Northamptonshire- Leicestershire border—right in the middle of England—will Mrs Grant: There are considerable efforts to ensure be among the last to get broadband, at the end of 2017, job creation and growth in the area. The north-east is a yet innovative cross-border thinking involving BT exchanges fabulous area for tourism. Our local growth fund, the on the other side of the county boundary might bring regional growth fund, the coastal communities fund about a quicker solution. Will the Secretary of State and the rural development programme, which effectively encourage such an innovative approach? involves European money, are pockets of funding that could certainly benefit the hon. Lady’s constituency. Sajid Javid: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, who has taken a strong interest in this matter. I have Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): Does the heard him speak in the House on behalf of his constituents Minister agree that food tourism is now vitally important on a number of occasions, and once again he comes up to the British economy? Will she send her congratulations with an excellent idea, which we shall follow up. to Craig Bancroft and Nigel Haworth of Northcote hotel, who for 15 years have successfully run a food Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): The Government’s own festival called Obsession, which runs for 15 days with figures show that Somerset’s rate of access to superfast five courses with matching wines of international and broadband is only 41%, which hardly meets the needs of national repute? If I send her the date for next year, will rural businesses and residents. Connecting Devon and she put it in her diary? I may be able to get Nigel Somerset allows bids from other suppliers in the Dartmoor Haworth to make her his traditional Lancashire hotpot. and Exmoor national parks, but I understand that, because of the reason of screening of information, only Mrs Grant: That sounds great. I can’t wait—I love BT, as a monopoly supplier, will be able to bid for the Lancashire hotpot. Yes, please send me an invitation. second phase. I have written to the Competition and Many congratulations on those food tourism efforts. Markets Authority; will the Secretary of State do the same and investigate exactly what has happened? Children and the Arts

Sajid Javid: As my hon. Friend raises a specific issue, I will have to take a closer look at it. I am glad that she 5. Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): What steps he has written to the Competition and Markets Authority, plans to take to ensure that children learn about or but if this is a competition issue, it should be dealt with experience the creative arts. [907744] by the independent regulator. However, if there is more that she thinks I can do, I shall take a closer look. The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy (Mr Edward Vaizey): It is wonderful to have a question from the hon. Lady. For one terrible moment I thought Tourism she might not be here, but I am so pleased to see that she has arrived in time to hear me answer that we 4. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): What believe strongly that children should have every opportunity assessment he has made of the contribution of tourism to learn about and experience the arts. At the beginning to the economy. [907742] of this year, we announced another £109 million for 449 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 450 music and cultural education. That takes the amount science had held back their careers. She has praised arts we have invested in music and cultural education to education and she is giving a very important speech on £400 million in this Parliament. cultural education next week. The hon. Gentleman is invited. Fiona Mactaggart: Perhaps the Minister would like to have a conversation with his friend the Mayor of Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Does the Minister London about the state of traffic in south London this agree that cultural education is vital for our children morning. and that, under this Government, we have raised the status and standing of arts GCSEs and A-levels so that Why has the number of children who experience the they are genuinely worthwhile qualifications? creative arts, except for film, declined every year that the hon. Gentleman has been responsible for this field? Mr Vaizey: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That Why has the number of children studying art, drama is why we have seen an increase in the number of and dance—creative subjects—at GCSE fallen so radically students taking arts GCSEs, for example. while he has been in charge? Tourism Mr Vaizey: At the very last Department for Culture, Media and Sport questions of this Parliament, every 6. Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): What steps he has one of which I have attended, I think the hon. Lady taken to promote tourism and develop the tourism makes a slightly snippy point, particularly as the Taking industry throughout England. [907745] Part survey shows that participation by children has increased for those aged between five and 10 and stayed The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, at the very high level of 99.4% for those aged 11 to 15. Media and Sport (Mrs Helen Grant): We have invested a There has been an 8% increase in those taking arts total of £10 million in VisitEngland’s Holidays at Home GCSE subjects since 2010 and participation in music, are GREAT campaign, with the fourth campaign launching dance, art and design continues. this spring. VisitEngland is also promoting and developing domestic tourism through its Growing Tourism Locally Mr Speaker: Order. I always enjoy the mellifluous campaign. tones of the hon. Gentleman. I have known him 25 years Mark Menzies: My constituency enjoys a vibrant and they never pall, but we do want to get through the tourist economy that includes Royal Lytham & St Annes business. golf club, Lytham music festival and Ribby Hall village, to name but a few. What steps is the Minister taking to Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): The new Progress 8 promote further tourism investment growth in the north- measure for secondary schools will provide more space west? for the arts in school accountability measures. What discussions has the Minister had with colleagues in the Mrs Grant: The Government have recently announced Department for Education to ensure that there is the £10 million of funding for tourism in the north of greatest incentive for schools to provide high-quality England, which is very good news for my hon. Friend’s arts education, including through prioritisation by Ofsted? constituency, the wider north-west and tourism across the north of England. We hope that the agreed project Mr Vaizey: I co-chair the cultural education group will commence this April. with the Minister for Schools. We are having a meeting next week. I was pleased to see that Ofsted has made it Mr Speaker: I do not know why that question was clear that under its new inspections beginning later this not grouped with Questions 12 and 13—these people year, an inspection must take account of whether a are sometimes a law unto themselves—but if the Members school offers a broad, balanced and relevant curriculum. who tabled those questions wish to come in, they are Music will be a clear element of that. welcome to do so.

Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Does the Minister 12. [907752] Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Today the accept that whatever spin he may put on it, when the civic buildings and street lamps across Rugby are Education Secretary told pupils not to study arts subjects festooned with dressing for the rugby world cup, which because it would hold them back for the rest of their will be held later this year, celebrating Rugby’s status as lives, she and his Government were systematically the home of the game. During the tournament, visitors undermining artistic education for all children in this will be able to visit a fan zone and see where it all country? Is he not ashamed that on his watch the started back in 1823. Does the Minister agree that number of children taking part in music in schools has people coming to this, the third largest sporting event, fallen from 55% to 36%? Does he not realise that a provides a valuable economic opportunity not only to strong artistic and cultural education should be the Rugby, but to venues across the UK? universal entitlement of every single child in this country, Mrs Grant: Yes, I absolutely agree. These major sporting because it is good for them, good for the economy and events are absolutely fabulous for the economy and for good for this nation? tourism, and of course they inspire people to participate in sport. Mr Vaizey: This week we celebrated the 50th anniversary of Jennie Lee’s first White Paper on the arts, and I am 13. [907753] Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and pleased that 50 years later we continue to support the Devonport) (Con): May I thank my right hon. Friend arts, particularly in education. The Education Secretary the Secretary of State for recently meeting a delegation did not say what the hon. Gentleman claims that she from Plymouth to discuss Mayflower 400, which of course said; she said that for too long people had thought that is about commemorating the founding of the American 451 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 452 colonies and will hopefully boost our tourist economy? Sport England in insisting that Wiltshire council does What support might the Department be able to give this not allow a precious sports pitch to slip through its really historic event down in Devon in 2020? fingers?

Mrs Grant: It will be a marvellous event, and I know Mrs Grant: The hon. Gentleman makes an important that my hon. Friend has been fully involved in the point. I understand from Sport England that work is programme, which will be fabulous for tourism. I am planned to begin replacing the cricket pavilion at pleased to announce today additional funding of £35,000 for Westinghouse sports ground, and that is very good the city’s Mayflower museum, which will help to ensure news. Sport England has been in regular contact with a strong legacy for the celebrations. [Interruption.] We the developer, the council and residents, and I know hope to be able to offer further support for the programme that the hon. Gentleman has too. It wants sporting in due course. facilities to be maintained at the site as per the section 106 agreement, and will continue to help and provide expertise. Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Colchester (Sir Bob I support the stance that Sport England is taking. Russell) is chuntering from a sedentary position, to no obvious benefit or purpose, but no doubt we will be Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab): It is enlightened later. important that sporting facilities are available to everybody, particularly people with disabilities. I know that the Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): What assessment Minister is working very hard on providing those facilities has the Minister made of the much greater contribution for disability sport. She may be aware that the England tourism could make to the economy were VAT on cerebral palsy football team will not be able to play at tourism to be reduced, which is something that all but the next Paralympics because cerebral palsy football three countries in the EU have been able to deliver? has been dropped off the agenda for Paralympic sport. Is she as concerned about that as I am? Mrs Grant: VAT is a matter that is constantly raised with me, but it is one for the Chancellor. He keeps all Mrs Grant: Yes, I am very concerned. Although this taxes under review, and I am sure that he will keep this is a decision for the International Paralympic Committee, one under review too. The hon. Gentleman might like I recently met the chief executive of the British Paralympic to know that I am holding a round-table meeting on Association to discuss the issue, and disability sailing as VAT with the industry in the next two weeks. well. We are a great footballing nation, and a great sailing nation too, and I understand the frustrations Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD) rose— about this decision. I therefore intend to speak to the IPC president, Sir Philip Craven, in the next couple of Mr Speaker: Let us hear the fellow—Sir Bob Russell. weeks.

Sir Bob Russell: Mr Speaker, I was merely observing Creative Industries that the Mayflower commenced its journey to America from Harwich and merely stopped off at Plymouth en 8. Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): route. What recent assessment he has made of the contribution of the creative industries in London to the Mr Speaker: I think that question was rhetorical, but UK economy. [907747] if the Minister particularly wishes to respond she may. The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy Mrs Grant: That was a very interesting observation, (Mr Edward Vaizey) rose— and I am very happy to support the campaign. Mr Speaker: Ah, Mr Vaizey! Sports Pitches (Redevelopment) Mr Vaizey: Let me tell you, Mr Speaker, that these final DCMS questions are turning into an absolute joy. 7. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): If he will take I can see your heart lifting every time I reach the steps to ensure that mitigation conditions are enforced Dispatch Box, and now I have done so to tell you that when sports pitches are redeveloped. [907746] the creative industries make a fantastic contribution to London’s economy, employing half a million people. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mrs Helen Grant): It is vital that Mary Macleod: My constituency is home to the west appropriate playing fields are preserved for local London creative industries hub, comprising hundreds communities. We will always work to protect and improve of TV, IT and other creative industry businesses. To be their provision. Enforcement of mitigating conditions successful, these businesses need to be connected. My at a local level is a matter for the local authority. hon. Friend and colleagues have done great work in delivering superfast broadband especially in rural areas, Duncan Hames: The Minister is right; it is a matter but will he consider some of the creative companies in for the local authority. In the case of Westinghouse west London that are still waiting to be superfast? sports ground in Chippenham, the problem has caused Sport England to send an impressively assertive solicitors Mr Vaizey: On Tuesday night I spoke to the Hounslow letter to Wiltshire council suggesting grave concerns chamber of commerce at the headquarters of iBurbia in about its resolve to secure mitigation for the loss of Chiswick. The managing director there rushed up to me sports facilities. Will the Minister give her support to to say that he had just got superfast broadband by using 453 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 454 one of our super-connected voucher schemes. He also 11. [907751] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) said to me, utterly unprompted, that he thought my (LD): I may be wrong, but I believe I glimpsed the hon. Friend was one of the hardest-working people he Minister in my constituency—on a mini-digger and had ever met. He told the entire room, full of hundreds endangering a cabinet that was about to be upgraded. of business people, that fact. While he was there, did he get any information about the timeliness of the roll-out of broadband in Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): Obviously London Wales, given that the Government have contributed is an important creative hub in terms of its contribution £57 million to the project? to the UK economy, but other cities such as Bristol can make a real contribution too. What assessment has the Mr Vaizey: I was indeed in Brecon. Our rural broadband Minister made of programmes like Plus Tate, in which programme is so important that it is a case of all hands the Tate is working with other galleries such as the to the pump. I was happy to get on a mini-digger and Arnolfini in Bristol, that enable the London institutions help to get my hon. Friend’s constituency more superfast- to help places in other cities? connected.

Mr Vaizey: Plus Tate is a fantastic programme that Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): In my Ynys Môn belies the statistics saying that London has more constituency, 2G is poor, 3G is patchy and 4G is non- money spent on the arts than the rest of the country. existent; yet my constituents pay exactly the same contract The money that goes to the Tate helps to support prices as people who have full coverage in cities. Does 24 contemporary art museums around the country, and the Minister agree that there should be some sort of the scheme is very successful. It is worth bearing that in differential on contract prices for, or even a rebate from, mind. companies that do not provide a full service?

Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): Is my hon. Mr Vaizey: We have the fastest roll-out and the Friend aware of the concern expressed by creative industries fastest take-up of 4G anywhere in the world. The contract in London and elsewhere about the way in which the between a customer and the mobile phone company is a EU regulation covering temporary structures is being matter for them, and it is a matter for consumer law, interpreted as that could lead to huge extra costs in the rather than for the telecoms roll-out. building of film sets and theatrical and musical stages? Is he aware that other European countries are not Mr Speaker: Last but not least, Mr Andrew Turner. interpreting it in this way, and will he ensure that we are not gold-plating unnecessarily? Sailing (Disabled People) Mr Vaizey: Yes, I am well aware of this issue. The Secretary of State is also closely aware of it and discussing 10. Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): What it keenly. I am sure that my hon. Friend understands assessment he has made of the benefits of sailing for where our sympathies lie. disabled people; and if he will make a statement. [907749] Mobile Phone Coverage The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mrs Helen Grant): The Government 9. Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): If he will make are committed to seeing everyone realise their sporting an assessment of the effectiveness of mobile phone potential. Sport England is investing £800,000 in the coverage in Wrexham. [907748] Royal Yachting Association’s sailability programme, designed to make sailing accessible for disabled people. The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy Thanks to that investment, more than 11,000 people (Mr Edward Vaizey): As you know, Mr Speaker, improving with disabilities were able to enjoy sailing in 2013-14. mobile coverage is a priority for the Government. Thanks to the Secretary of State’s negotiations with the mobile Mr Turner: The great advantage of sailing over almost operators, we have reached a legally binding agreement every other sport is that both disabled and non-disabled with them. Under that agreement, not spots in the hon. people can work together as equals. The loss of sailing Gentleman’s constituency will fall from 5.4% to just from the Tokyo Paralympics would represent a giant 1.3%. step backwards. What more can the Minister do, working with Paralympic and sailing organisations both UK-based Ian Lucas: Mobile coverage in Wrexham is not super. and elsewhere in the world, to reinstate sailing as a sport After five years of this Government, businesses and in the 2020 Paralympics. individuals in Wrexham town centre complain constantly about this issue. I am surprised that the Secretary of Mrs Grant: Although that is a decision for the State did not reply on this, because he heard about it in International Paralympic Committee, I recently met the Wrexham recently. Why have this Government failed? chief executive of the British Paralympic Association to discuss this very issue. On several occasions, I have met Mr Vaizey: It is certainly true that the Secretary of my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North State met the brilliant local campaigner in Wrexham, (Penny Mordaunt), who is also very concerned. Britain Andrew Atkinson, and had long discussions with him is a great sailing nation, and I completely understand about improving mobile coverage. If the hon. Gentleman the frustration of our Paralympic sailors. I therefore wants to support Mr Atkinson’s campaign to improve intend to speak to the IPC president Sir Philip Craven mobile coverage, he is welcome to do so. in the very near future. 455 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 456

Topical Questions T7. [907764] Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): I do not know if it is the same for you, Mr Speaker, and other T1. [907757] Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): If he will hon. Members, but quite often late at night or in the make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. early hours, my spouse looks at me quite suspiciously when she notices that I have been online. The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Sajid Javid): In the past month, British talent has Mr Vaizey: Where is this going? enjoyed incredible success at the Grammys, the Baftas, the Brits and the Oscars. That is just another demonstration Adam Afriyie: Absolutely. I am delighted that in Old of the way in which this country’s creative industries Windsor and across the constituency, 2,000 more people lead the world. I am sure that the House will join me in are now connected to superfast broadband. Will Ministers congratulating all our award-winning actors, film makers continue the roll-out and, in particular, focus on satellite and musicians, no matter what school they went to. technology, which can bring a better experience, even when we are doing constituency correspondence? Ian Lucas: BBC news coverage in north-east Wales is poor. Does the Secretary of State agree with the proposal in today’s Culture, Media and Sport Committee report Sajid Javid: First, I encourage my hon. Friend’s spouse that the BBC should work closely with local news to ensure that the family filters are turned on in the organisations to improve regional news coverage? Afriyie household. His point about the greater use of satellite technology throughout the UK is well made. Sajid Javid: I warmly welcome the report, which I That is something that we are actively looking at. shall study very closely. It is an important contribution to the future of the BBC, and all its suggestions, including T2. [907758] Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): The the one the hon. Gentleman mentions, will be taken Music Venue Trust will launch its report on the account of when the charter review process starts. challenges faced by small and medium venues at an event that I am hosting in Parliament on 9 March. T5. [907762] Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): What value does the Secretary of State place on the Two weeks ago, Tamworth won growth funding to importance of the live music circuit to the UK’s regenerate its town centre and build an enterprise and world-dominating music industry? If he is not able to creative quarter. Will my hon. Friend say what more drop in on 9 March, may I send him a copy of the the Government can do to help our creative industries report, so that he can hear the concerns about the and allow Tamworth to take full advantage of this challenges facing venues? wonderful opportunity? Sajid Javid: The hon. Lady makes an important The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy point. I will see whether I or the Minister for Culture (Mr Edward Vaizey): We will work incredibly hard with and the Digital Economy can drop in on 9 March. She my hon. Friend as the excellent local MP for Tamworth has campaigned actively on behalf of venues in her to support that creative cluster. We will also work with constituency, some of which I know well. I went to The the local enterprise partnership and Creative England, Fleece during my youth in Bristol. She is a great champion which supports the creative industries outside London. for such venues and I hope that we can work together on these issues. Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): It has not been a good week for the Secretary of State, but it has been a good week for entertainment and sports fans. If the Government T8. [907765] Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): Further had listened to us, thousands of fans buying tickets for to the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Isle the rugby world cup, the Ashes and many other events of Wight (Mr Turner), does the Minister agree that the would have been saved from having to pay several times decision of the International Paralympic Committee to the face value for tickets that were hoovered up by exclude sailing from the Tokyo games in 2020 is not organised gangs of touts. Everyone accepted our argument only an enormous setback for that important British that action was needed on secondary ticketing, except sport, but will rob us of the next generation of inspiring for the Secretary of State, who should have been sailing sportsmen, such as Fareham’s Geoff Holt? representing those fans. Will he ensure that the measures in the Consumer Rights Bill will be implemented without The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, delay? While he is at it, will he come to the Dispatch Media and Sport (Mrs Helen Grant): That is a concern Box and apologise to the fans he has so badly let down? and I will speak to Sir Philip Craven about the matter.

Sajid Javid: My view on this issue has not changed. T3. [907760] Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): I am Consumers must always be put first. That means that grateful to the Minister for his support in my Adjournment they should be allowed to sell tickets that they no longer debate for Premier Christian Radio staying on Digital need, and that fans who were not able to get them the One. His predecessor, speaking about digital radio to first time should be able to buy them. Those principles the Broadcasting Bill Committee in 1996, said that have not changed. However, we were not prepared to jeopardise the Bill’s safe passage through the House and “no more than two of the stations on the multiplex should be accepted the amendment. The important thing is to see aimed at predominantly the same…audience”.—[Official Report, how it works in practice. The amendment includes a Standing Committee D, 14 May 1996.] statutory review, which I hope will look at all the issues, What is the current policy on station diversity on Digital and we will see how it actually works. One and, in future, on Digital Two? 457 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 458

Mr Vaizey: In what may be my last answer in Culture, vibrancy, atmosphere and colour to football fixtures. Media and Sport questions, having attended every single Given the largesse that now exists in the Premier League, session since the beginning of this Parliament, may I say does the Minister agree that it would be a good measure that I was very happy to support the right hon. Gentleman’s for clubs to take to ensure that there is a cap on the price campaign to keep Premier Christian Radio on the multiplex? of standard away tickets, so that some of the benefit of I will certainly check after questions what the current the additional TV revenue comes to the fans who help policy is on diversity on the multiplex, as that might add make the atmosphere of the games? another string to his very important argument, if that is not too much of a mixed metaphor to end on. Mrs Grant: I believe that fans are the lifeblood of the game—where would we be without them? They always Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): The mixed ability rugby have the best interests of their club at heart, and clubs world cup will take place for the first time ever in my should do everything they possibly can to make tickets constituency later this year. I know that the Minister as affordable as possible. has met the event organisers, for which I am grateful, and I also thank the hon. Member for Bradford South Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): (Mr Sutcliffe) for his strong support for the event. Will I fear that my hon. Friend the Minister for Culture and the Minister set out what support the Government can the Digital Economy was being even more premature provide to attract sponsorship for the event, to make it than he thought. A couple of weeks ago, he extolled the the great success that it deserves to be? virtues of the fantastic portable antiquities scheme, which has now brought in more than 1 million artefacts. Mrs Grant: I have met the gentlemen from my hon. Is he aware that there has been a 5% cut to the scheme Friend’s constituency, and they gave me a fabulous this year, and that several finds liaison officer posts are black and yellow rugby shirt, which I put on. They are under threat? We really need to find a more sustainable, called the Bumbles, and they are fabulous. I will be long-term solution for funding that excellent scheme. happy to have a meeting or discussion with my hon. Friend about funding that event. Mr Vaizey: I am having more comebacks than Frank Sinatra. T4. [907761] Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Earlier, the Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy I am a huge supporter of the portable antiquities dodged his way around the figures that I cited from the scheme, and in fact we ring-fenced its funding when we Warwick report about the drastic decline in children’s came into government. I will do all that I can to support experience and learning in creative subjects. Perhaps that very effective scheme. he will respond more positively to another of its recommendations, which is that every publicly funded T9. [907766] Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) organisation that deals with cataloguing and archives (Lab): Will the Secretary of State welcome tomorrow’s on the net should be encouraged to use the same meeting in Nottingham between “Get Creative”, from mechanisms for the cataloguing of GLAM—galleries, the BBC, and “What Next?”, which is organised locally? libraries, museums and archives—so that the archives Will he also underline the strong commitment that he can be more easily accessed and searched by everyone. gave me at the last Culture, Media and Sport questions that he considers arts, culture and heritage just as Mr Vaizey: I was obviously premature in my last important for the outer cities as for the often oversubscribed answer, Mr Speaker. inner cities? I have a lot of sympathy with that recommendation. Putting museum and archive content online and making Sajid Javid: I wholeheartedly agree. The hon. Gentleman it easily accessible to both teachers for their lesson plans has teamed up with two excellent organisations, and I and students for their learning is an important issue. I wish him well. will have a number of meetings in the coming weeks to discuss some ideas about it.

Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): Women WOMEN AND EQUALITIES have traditionally been under-represented in the classical music world. Will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State therefore congratulate Milton Keynes city orchestra The Minister for Women and Equalities was asked— on organising a special concert under the baton of Sian Homophobic Bullying Edwards on international women’s day to recognise the huge talent of women in classical music today? 1. Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab): Sajid Javid: I join my hon. Friend in warmly commending What steps she is taking to tackle homophobic the Milton Keynes city orchestra. I have three young bullying. [907727] daughters who all learn instruments, and I know that they take huge inspiration from seeing more and more The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women women in orchestras and in music, which I warmly and Equalities (Jo Swinson): Homophobic bullying is encourage. absolutely unacceptable, and we are committed to eliminating it. That is why we have announced £2 million T6. [907763] Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton of grant funding to support schools to address the issue West) (Lab/Co-op): Although it is not a universally more effectively. That complements the £4 million that rewarding experience being an away fan following Fulham, the Department currently provides to charitable it is certainly the case that travelling supporters bring organisations to tackle all forms of bullying. 459 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 460

Mrs Lewell-Buck: Is the Minister aware that Mr Gay secure a new position having found themselves unemployed. World, Stuart Hatton, lives in my constituency? He They often feel that discrimination plays a part in the recently launched a fantastic anti-bullying campaign refusals they have been given, but they simply do not called “So What?”. His message is simple: some of us have the means to challenge the companies and are straight, some of us are gay, so what? With Stonewall organisations involved, so that discrimination is left reporting that nearly a quarter of lesbian, gay or bisexual unchallenged. What should women who find themselves pupils miss school because of homophobic bullying, his in that situation do? message is sorely needed. Labour’s shadow Ministers are backing Stuart’s campaign. Will the Minister? Mr Harper: First, as I said in answer to the hon. Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice), a record Jo Swinson: I very much welcome the hon. Lady number of older women are in work and we have a setting out her constituent’s campaign, and I will be record employment rate for older females—that is obviously happy to look at it as it sounds excellent. We all agree good news. For those in the position that the hon. Lady that tackling homophobic bullying must be a real priority sets out, we have looked at programmes to help older for the reasons that she outlined in her question, and workers return to work. New pilots were announced in because of the impact that it has on LGBT young the autumn statement last year to look at barriers to people, and indeed other young people, as this issue also work, and at our sector-based work academies and affects those who are not LGBT. work experience programmes that are particularly tailored to the needs of older workers. Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): Homophobic bullying in schools is completely unacceptable. Will the Minister Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): ensure that Ofsted is getting the message through to Unemployment is down by 37% in my constituency. head teachers and schools that they must do everything Does my hon. Friend welcome the fact that UK women in their power to eradicate that wicked thing? are getting into work faster than in any other country in the G7, which shows that the Government’s long-term Jo Swinson: The short answer is yes, and the national economic plan is working in my constituency? professional qualification for headship contains information on how to tackle bullying, including homophobic bullying. Mr Harper: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her Unemployment question and I will be visiting her constituency tomorrow to speak to local businesses— 2. Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab): What estimate Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): What a surprise. she has made of the number of women who have been unemployed for over one year. [907728] Mr Harper: The hon. Lady says, “What a surprise”, 6. Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): What but my hon. Friend is holding an event to talk about estimate she has made of the number of women who getting more disabled people back into work with a have been unemployed for over one year. [907734] number of excellent local employers. The hon. Lady should congratulate her on that, rather than being The Minister for Disabled People (Mr Mark Harper): churlish about it. Female long-term unemployment has fallen by more My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I cannot do than 90,000 on the year—the largest annual fall on better than report what the OECD said, which was that record––to 237,000, demonstrating the success of the we had a long-term economic plan and effective economic Government’s long-term economic plan. policies, and that the performance of the labour market in the United Kingdom was “remarkable”. Graeme Morrice: Under this Government there are more young women who have been out of work for over Several hon. Members rose— a year than there were four years ago. Does the Minister agree that that is a terrible indictment of the Government’s Mr Speaker: Order. Progress is very slow and we must so-called long-term economic plan? speed up matters. We can be guided in that by a legendary parliamentarian, Mr Philip Davies. Mr Harper: I am pleased the hon. Gentleman recognises that we have a long-term economic plan that is also successful—two things that the Labour party does not Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Will my hon. Friend have. The previous Government removed people who confirm that, aside from the strong record he has outlined, were about to become long-term unemployed from the about 80% of the growth in female employment in the claimant count by putting them on training programmes. past four years has come in managerial, professional We have stopped that charade and now have an honest and technical professions? measure. We have a record number of women in work, a record female employment rate, a record number of Mr Harper: I can absolutely confirm that. older women in work, a record older female employment rate, and a female participation rate that is close to the Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): The number of highest on record—a record of which I am very proud. young women claiming jobseeker’s allowance for more than one year is up by 30%. Bankers have done very Heidi Alexander: In the last year I have dealt with a well under this Government, so why does the Minister number of cases concerning older women who have not use a tax on bank bonuses to pay for a guaranteed previously been in work but are now struggling to job for young women? 461 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 462

Mr Harper: It is fascinating. Only a few weeks ago, in Chris Bryant: If so—I see that both Ministers are the debate on Labour’s job guarantee, the Secretary of nodding—what will Ministers do to ensure pay equality State pointed out that Labour had spent the bank in the British film industry? bonus tax 11 times with 11 different policies. If spending it for a 12th time is the best the hon. Lady can do, she Jo Swinson: I wholeheartedly endorse the speech by needs to go back to the drawing board. Patricia Arquette—I have already welcomed it on Twitter because I think it needed to be brought to a wider Equal Pay audience. In the UK arts industry, as in all industries, it is important that there be greater transparency and support for women in the workplace in terms of promotion 3. Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): What steps she is and seniority. That is what we will continue to promote. taking to deliver equal pay for men and women. [907729] Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con): I am sure that like me my hon. Friend is pleased The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, that the Work programme is helping the long-term Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson): The gender pay gap unemployed, both men and women, back into work. has fallen to its lowest level ever and has been entirely Will she confirm that the number of long-term unemployed eliminated among full-time workers under the age of people has fallen to its lowest in five years and that the 40, but our goal must be to eliminate it entirely. We are claimant count in my constituency has fallen by 42%? tackling systemic pay inequalities through a range of measures: the Your Life initiative to get more girls into Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman has got mixed up: science, technology, engineering and maths; improved the previous question was about unemployment, but child care; extending flexible working; and introducing this one is about equal pay, so I shall take his question shared parental leave. as rhetorical. We are grateful to him for getting his observations on the record. Mr Hanson: Forty four years after Labour’s Equal Pay Act 1970, sadly women earn on average 81p for Domestic Violence every £1 that men earn. Tomorrow, my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) has a Bill 4. Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab): What providing for transparency in larger companies. Will the assessment she has made of the effects on employed Government support it? women who are victims of domestic violence of means- testing when they attempt to access a refuge. [907731] Jo Swinson: The Government’s position is not to support that particular Bill, but we are encouraging The Minister for Women and Equalities (Nicky Morgan): much more transparency through the Think, Act, Report Employed people entering refuge accommodation can initiative, to which more than 270 employers, covering claim help with their housing costs through housing 2.5 million employees, have signed up. Nearly half of benefit, which is both an in-work and out-of-work them have done an equal pay audit in the last year and benefit. When paid to claimants who are in work, it is two thirds are publishing more information on gender calculated on the basis of their earnings. The Government equality. I agree that this is a hugely important issue on have provided £6.5 billion in housing-related support which we need to make more progress, and we are over this spending review period so that when someone committed to doing so. enters a refuge the support element of the provision will not be means-tested. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Which employment sector has the greatest gender pay gap, Andy McDonald: Does the Minister agree that the which has the least and what is the Minister doing to get safety of women suffering domestic violence ought to representatives of the one to talk to the other? be prioritised over their ability to access funds at a time of personal crisis? If so, will she support my call for Jo Swinson: That is a fantastic question, and I shall means testing to include an assessment of the economic write to the hon. Gentleman with the specific statistics impact of abusive and controlling relationships? for different sectors. Sectoral differences are a significant part of the gender pay gap. We know that occupational Nicky Morgan: I know that the hon. Gentleman has segregation—the congregation of women in much lower done a lot of work with the charity My Sister’s Place, paying sectors—is a significant driver of about one based in his constituency, and I agree that at a time of third of the pay gap, which is why the initiatives to get personal crisis the first thing refuges do—this will be more girls studying STEM subjects are so important. the case for most of the refuges I have spoken to—is offer security, not ask how somebody will pay. He will have seen the ministerial letter to My Sister’s Place Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Will the Minister making it clear that where a victim of domestic violence cheer on Patricia Arquette’s Oscar acceptance speech, takes up temporary accommodation, while also making in which she called for equal pay in the arts, particularly arrangements to return to their home, housing benefit in the film industry? for both properties can be payable. Discretionary housing payment is also available. Jo Swinson indicated assent. Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): The Berkshire women’s The Minister for Women and Equalities (Nicky Morgan) refuge serves my constituency incredibly well. We all indicated assent. abhor domestic violence, particularly towards women, 463 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 464 so does my right hon. Friend, like me, welcome the Yet when the updated figures were published in January, victim surcharge, which ensures that those who commit they did not include the number of those who had waited these acts contribute to making reparations? longer than 16 weeks. Will the Minister now ensure that those figures are published so we can see whether the Nicky Morgan: I absolutely welcome the victim surcharge, anecdotal evidence we get from our constituents is correct? which results in important payments being made. I am sure that he will also want to welcome the announcement Mr Harper: I can confirm to the hon. Gentleman that by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local I published statistics just ahead of my appearance at the Government just before Christmas of an extra £10 million Work and Pensions Select Committee. Last year, when I to secure refuge accommodation for the next two years. got this job, the average wait for a claimant was unacceptably high, at around 30 weeks. After sustained effort from Childcare Business Grants Scheme my Department and our assessment providers, we had more than halved that by the end of the year. I am very 5. Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): What pleased, and we will continue that focus. estimate she has made of the potential benefit to working families of the extension of the childcare Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland business grants scheme announced in the autumn West) (Lab): Recent figures have shown that only 7% of statement 2014. [907733] disabled people on employment and support allowance gained sustained employment through the Government’s The Secretary of State for Education (Nicky Morgan): Work programme, which is worse than if there were no Working families benefit from a thriving child care programme at all. In Sir Bert Massie’s report on the link sector, with the scheme supporting up to 3,000 new between disability and poverty, he highly recommends child care businesses in the next financial year. I am replacing this clearly failing programme with one of pleased to inform the House that, from this April, we locally controlled specialist support for disabled people. are doubling the value of the grants available to A Labour Government would commit to do this, so can childminders and nurseries. We will also extend the the Minister tell us his Government’s position on this scheme to existing child care businesses that have been issue? If they do not believe that change is necessary, trading for less than a year. how can they justify those figures? Mr Harper: I do not need to justify those figures. If Bob Blackman: In my constituency, there is a huge the hon. Lady had used more up-to-date figures, she demand from mothers with young children for safe and would know that performance has significantly improved secure childminders from a diverse background. What and that more people are being helped into work through further measures is my right hon. Friend able to take to the Work programme, work choice and access to work. ensure that those young mothers can return to work Yes, more disabled people are being helped than before. knowing that their children are safe and secure? As I said in response to an earlier question, 141,000 more disabled people are in work now than last year. I think Nicky Morgan: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that is a record to be proud of. There is more to do, but that childminders are a crucial part of the child care good progress is being made. sector. We want to see more of them, which is why we have enabled the establishment of childminder agencies. Discrimination Claims To date, the childcare business grant scheme has benefited more than 4,000 childminders, including almost 30 in my hon. Friend’s constituency. The scheme has also 8. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): What benefited seven nurseries in Harrow, East—MiniSteps, change there has been in the number of people for example. bringing discrimination claims since the introduction of tribunal fees. [907736] Disabled People (Access to Work) The Secretary of State for Education (Nicky Morgan): Although the number of people bringing discrimination 7. Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) claims to the employment tribunals is not collected (Lab/Co-op): What assessment she has made of the centrally, the number of complaints of discrimination effects of Government policies on disabled people’s from ET claims is collected. From July to September access to work. [907735] 2014, there were 5,475 complaints of discrimination on the grounds of age, disability, race, religion or belief, The Minister for Disabled People (Mr Mark Harper): sex, or sexual orientation, or of having suffered a detriment Over 3 million working-age disabled people are now in or unfair dismissal due to pregnancy, or complaints employment. There are 141,000 more disabled people in relating to equal pay. This compares to just over 18,000 in work than a year ago, and the employment rate has the quarter from April to June 2013, a fall of 71%. risen, demonstrating that disabled people are benefiting from the Government’s long-term economic plan. Kate Green: There has been a particularly shocking fall of more than 90% in the number of sex discrimination Tom Greatrex: In September last year, the Minister cases, including those involving pregnancy-related published statistics showing that only 206,000 of 529,400 discrimination. Many women on low incomes cannot personal independence payment applications had been apply for fee remission in order to go to an employment cleared. When he published those statistics, he said: tribunal, not because of their own incomes, but because “By the end of the year we expect that no-one will be waiting of their partners’ incomes or savings. Does the Minister for an assessment for longer than 16 weeks.” think that that system is giving those women fair access 465 Oral Answers26 FEBRUARY 2015 Oral Answers 466 to justice? Furthermore, is it not penalising good businesses November 2013, we announced an extensive programme that do not try to get away with poor, discriminatory of research on perceived pregnancy and maternity practices, unlike others which know that there will be discrimination in Great Britain. We have made a no danger of a challenge if they do so? commitment to conduct a review of the introduction of the fees, and we will do so, but we think that this Nicky Morgan: Pregnancy discrimination in the workplace is unacceptable and unlawful, and the is a matter for the next Administration and the next Government have recognised the need to tackle it. In Parliament. 467 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 468

Business of the House WEDNESDAY 11 MARCH—Opposition day (19th allotted day). There will be a debate on a motion in the name of the Democratic Unionist party—subject to be 10.35 am announced—followed by a motion to approve a statutory Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): Will the Leader of instrument relating to terrorism. the House please give us the business for next week? THURSDAY 12 MARCH—Business to be nominated by the Backbench Business Committee. The First Secretary of State and Leader of the House FRIDAY 13 MARCH—The House will not be sitting. of Commons (Mr William Hague): The business for next I should also like to inform the House that the week will be as follows: business in Westminster Hall on 5 March will be a MONDAY 2MARCH—Estimates day (2nd allotted day). general debate on planning and the national planning There will be a debate entitled “Devolution in England: policy framework. The Case for Local Government”, followed by a debate on “Towards the next Defence and Security Review: Part Two—NATO”. Further details will be given in the Ms Eagle: I thank the Leader of the House. Official Report. Monday and Tuesday are estimates days, and we [The details are as follows: Devolution in England: shall have a chance to scrutinise Government waste, but The Case for Local Government, 1st Report from the the form of the debates will allow us only to scratch the Communities and Local Government Committee, HC 503, surface of those overspends. Does the Leader of the and the Government response; Towards the next Defence House agree that rather than three days being allocated and Security Review Part Two: NATO, 3rd Report from for debate, the estimates process needs to be made much the Defence Committee, HC 358, and the Government more rigorous? Will he support our plans for a yearly response, HC 755.] session of budget questions to each Department, so that Secretaries of State can be held to account directly TUESDAY 3MARCH—Estimates day (3rd allotted day). for their spending decisions? There will be a debate on support for housing costs in the reformed welfare system, followed by a debate on Yesterday my hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead children’s and adolescents’ mental health and child and and Kilburn (Glenda Jackson) described what seemed adolescent mental health services. Further details will to be a worrying case of the blatant misuse of public be given in the Official Report. At 7 pm, the House resources for party-political purposes. After she had will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates. passed an e-mail from a concerned constituent to the Prime Minister, her constituent received a party-political [The details are as follows: Support for housing costs reply from No. 10 featuring propaganda about the in the reformed welfare system, 4th Report from the Work Conservative Party manifesto. Will the Leader of the and Pensions Committee, HC 720 of Session 2013-14; House tell us whether party-political letters are being Children’s and adolescents’ mental health and CAMHS, prepared at public expense and civil service neutrality is 3rd Report from the Health Committee, HC 342, and the being undermined, or whether correspondence intended Government response.] for the Prime Minister is being passed directly to the WEDNESDAY 4MARCH—Proceedings on the Supply Conservative party? Will he tell us why this seems to be and Appropriation (Anticipations and Adjustments) a developing theme with this Government, with millions Bill, followed by remaining stages of the Corporation of letters to small businesses on No. 10 headed paper Tax (Northern Ireland) Bill, followed by Opposition filled with Tory propaganda, Government announcements day (unallotted half-day). There will be a debate on an conveniently located in marginal seats, the Prime Minister Opposition motion; subject to be announced. and Chancellor travelling the country on public money on their “long-term economic scam tour” and the THURSDAY 5MARCH—There will be a general debate on international women’s day, followed by a general unexplained 22% rise in the Government’s external debate on Welsh affairs. The subjects for both debates communications bill just as the election is approaching? were determined by the Backbench Business Committee. Will the Leader of the House also arrange for an urgent statement from the Minister for the Cabinet Office and FRIDAY 6MARCH—Private Members’ Bills. Paymaster General on these disturbing developments? The provisional business for the week commencing Today, we have had the last set of quarterly migration 9 March will include: figures before the election and it is clear that the Prime MONDAY 9MARCH—Remaining stages of the Armed Minister’s pledge to reduce net migration to the tens of Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) thousands is now in tatters. Instead of net migration’s Bill [Lords], followed by consideration of Lords being reduced, it is now higher than it was at the start of amendments to the Consumer Rights Bill, followed by this Parliament and illegal immigration and exploitation a motion to approve a European document relating to are getting worse. Will the Leader of the House arrange “Commission Work Programme 2015”, followed by for a statement from the Home Secretary on the huge business to be nominated by the Backbench Business failure in her Department? Committee. Figures released this week show that the number of TUESDAY 10 MARCH—Consideration of Lords people on zero-hours contracts has soared, but in this amendments to the Deregulation Bill, followed by a place we have had the sorry sight of the Conservative motion to approve statutory instruments relating to party defending the right of its MPs to earn millions of counter-terrorism, followed by a motion to approve pounds on the side. Our motion yesterday was a sensible a European document relating to subsidiarity and solution to the widening gap between the rules we have proportionality and the Commission’s relations with in this place and the standards the public expect of us. national Parliaments. In a democracy, when we are out of step with public 469 Business of the House26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 470

[Ms Angela Eagle] disastrous interviews in which he has managed to fall out with his own window cleaner, quite apart from opinion we must change. The Government voted against anything else. I have previously put the hon. Lady banning paid directorships and consultancies, so I want forward for her party leadership, but I really think she to ask the Leader of the House whether his party is ought to consider being the shadow Chancellor in the ready to contemplate any form of change. coming general election campaign, because a shadow I have been reading an interview this morning with Cabinet member has said that if the shadow Chancellor the Prime Minister in woman&home magazine. In it, he “carries on behaving like this he is not unassailable…He has praised his wife and said that behind every great man complete contempt for colleagues. He’s not a team player.” there is a great woman. Surely he meant that behind The hon. Lady is a team player and she could replace every great man there is a very surprised woman. him. I think she would do a much better job than he has I am getting a bit worried, Mr Speaker. During done. Indeed, Labour might not then need to bring questions yesterday, the Prime Minister boasted of how back Lord Prescott to the front line of the campaign, successfully he combines his job as Prime Minister with which in any election campaign is a sure sign of desperation. being the Member of Parliament for West Oxfordshire. That must be easy, because the constituency of West Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): 1997, 2001 and 2005. Oxfordshire does not even exist. Last week, the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) knocked Mr Hague: I have enormous respect for Lord Prescott, on the door of a local resident claiming that he was but having to go back 10 years is a sign of desperation their MP, but was greeted by the wife of my hon. Friend for Labour. the Member for Edmonton (Mr Love), who pointed out On a more serious question, the hon. Member for that he was in fact canvassing in the wrong constituency. Wallasey (Ms Eagle) asked about Government waste. I I do not know about second jobs, but perhaps they remind her that this Government have saved, thanks to should pay a bit more attention to their first ones. It is the Cabinet Office Ministers, more than £10 billion a of course possible that they both just had a mind blank, year just by making elementary things in government like the leader of the Green party, who was involved in more efficient. They have done that year on year by an eco-friendly car crash at the LBC studios on Tuesday. making sure that contracts are not excessive and that I gather that following her interview the Green party Government Departments buy services together. This has joined the Conservative party in campaigning to be Government have rooted out waste in government. excluded from the leaders’ debates. The hon. Lady asked about the estimates days, the Although some Government members do not seem subjects for which are, of course, chosen by the Liaison to know quite where their constituencies are, the hon. Committee, so there is a well-established procedure. Member for Bosworth (David Tredinnick) appears to The hon. Lady has reforms in mind, but as things stand have left his for another planet entirely. He has been it is the role of Select Committees and questions in this formulating the new Conservative health policy and House to hold Ministers to account. Although I am not not content with wasting £3 billion on a top-down closing off any sort of reform, that will be a question reorganisation of the NHS, he told a journal this week for the new Parliament, in which, as the hon. Lady has that the way to take the huge pressure off doctors is noted, I will conveniently not be present. astrology. He claimed that it is a useful diagnostic tool, enabling us to see strengths and weaknesses via the The Prime Minister dealt with the question of birth chart. It is unclear whether he thinks that the correspondence yesterday. The rules are exactly the Chancellor would have met his deficit reduction targets same as they were under the previous Government and if only he had not broken that mirror. they are observed. One person losing his constituency by choice is the I am pleased that the long-term economic plan has Leader of the House. Asked at the weekend why he was entered the hon. Lady’s vocabulary, as well as that of leaving Parliament, he replied, “I’ve been Foreign Secretary the rest of the House and the country. I know she tried and I’m determined not to be Prime Minister.” If I may to alter one of those words, but it shows that that say so, that goes some way to explaining his time as phrase has entered the economic vocabulary not just of Leader of the Opposition. the nation, but of the world. The head of the OECD stated this week: Mr Hague: As ever, I am grateful for the questions “My main message to you today is well done. Well done so far, from the hon. Lady. It shows what a broad party we are Chancellor. But finish the job. Britain has a long-term economic that we welcome views from all parts of the galaxy, as plan, but it needs to stick with it.” she has just demonstrated. On the question of what is The Chancellor is backed by economic commentators behind every great man, I have always thought that across the world, unlike the shadow Chancellor, who behind every great man is an astonished mother-in-law, has fallen out with his own window cleaner. That is the so that is a further refinement of that phrase. I can actual choice before the country in the coming election. assure her that the Prime Minister knows where his The hon. Lady asked about yesterday’s debate. One constituency is and it is of course in west Oxfordshire of the points I made during it is that there have been even though that might not be its name. It would be many improvements to transparency and accountability wise, of course, for all candidates from all parties to in this Parliament and there will be scope for further know the boundaries of their constituencies for the improvements, but neither I nor the House agree with general election. the hon. Lady’s proposals. She said that millions were On the so-called car crash interview of the leader of being earned. I recall that one of the few Members the Green party, I think she has been taking lessons recording more than £1 million in outside earnings in from the shadow Chancellor, who has given a series of this Parliament was the brother of the Leader of the 471 Business of the House26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 472

Opposition before he left the House. I note that the Sir George Young (North West Hampshire) (Con): Leader of the Opposition did not put forward his My question will come as no surprise to my right hon. proposals for reform until his brother had left the Friend, as I have asked it several times before. In the House of Commons. Perhaps he is in favour of family diminishing number of days between now and Dissolution, businesses, after all—you never know—or perhaps we is it still his ambition to hold a debate and a vote on the have found the limits of fratricide: it’s all right to stab options in his White Paper “The Implications of Devolution your brother in the back politically, but not to cut off for England”? his earnings as well. How extremely thoughtful of the Leader of the Opposition. Mr Hague: My right hon. Friend’s question comes as no surprise—he has indeed asked it several times. The Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): answer is that my ambition remains the same, but I have Earlier this week, during proceedings on the Serious not achieved it yet. I am conscious of that, but such a Crime Bill, I highlighted the need for effective mandatory debate and vote would of course require a measure of reporting of suspected sexual abuse in regulated settings, agreement among the parties in the House, including in to afford better protection to our children and vulnerable the coalition, on how to phrase and frame the question. people. Today, we shall hear in more detail about the But it is not too late to have such a debate. repulsive activities of Jimmy Savile at our local hospital in Buckinghamshire, which will further reinforce the Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): On Friday evening urgent need for reform. Will the Leader of the House in North Antrim, we will be celebrating the life and give serious consideration to giving more time for a full times of Private Quigg, who in 1916 was awarded the debate on mandatory reporting, so that we might perhaps Victoria Cross for conspicuous valour at the Somme. achieve cross-party consensus that could lead to action Yesterday, we read the wonderful news about Josh before the general election, rather than waiting until Leakey, who has just received the most recent Victoria later in the year? Cross. Does the Leader of the House plan to do anything here formally to celebrate the life of this modern-day Mr Hague: As my right hon. Friend knows, the hero, and other heroes who have been awarded the VC, Secretary of State for Health will make a statement on to enable Parliament to pay its respects to those wonderful this matter shortly, and there will be opportunities for people? her and other Members to ask him questions. This is an important issue, and she, as a local Member of Parliament, Mr Hague: That is a good point. The hon. Gentleman will take a close interest in it. I think it would be best for has drawn our attention to an individual of whom the the House to wait to hear what my right hon. Friend the whole nation will be extremely proud—the only living Secretary of State has to say before we consider what recipient of the Victoria Cross in Afghanistan. Everyone further debates on mandatory reporting might be necessary. who saw pictures of the ceremony on their television screens this morning will be intensely proud of him. We Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Later this year, can give consideration as to how the House should the world will turn its attention to the conference of the recognise people who receive those and other medals parties in Paris in December and, before that, to the for valour and gallantry. Much has been done in this conference on sustainable development goals in September. country to recognise them. The brilliant new extension In July, the conference on the financing of development, of the Imperial War Museum celebrates the recipients which is perhaps more important, will take place in of the Victoria Cross throughout history, for example, Addis. Does the Leader of the House agree that it is and I recommend that everyone should go and see that. important that we have a major debate on that conference Perhaps we can give further consideration to how we in this Chamber in Government time, and that the can meet the hon. Gentleman’s request. Treasury should be represented at such a debate to explain to the House precisely what it will be doing to ensure the success of the sustainable development goals Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): Will the Leader of the and of the United Nations framework convention on House speak to his colleagues in government to consider climate change in December? how small, resource-stretched charities such as the amazing Burnham Area Rescue Boat, which is so busy all year Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right round delivering life-saving services and famously was about the importance of that whole sequence of conferences on television every day during the Somerset floods last later this year. I remember agreeing, as Foreign Secretary, year, are informed about Government schemes such as to give assistance and advice to France on the hosting the inshore and inland lifeboat grant scheme? Such of the Paris meeting, because we in this country have so schemes would help small charities such as BARB to much expertise on these issues. This is a matter for the access the funds they need so badly. Department of Energy and Climate Change and the Department for International Development, so it would Mr Hague: I very much congratulate the local charities primarily be for them to take part in any such debates. that my hon. Friend is talking about on the work done The Treasury’s role is to help to supply the money, as is during the floods, and the Government are always so often the case. I certainly hope that there will be open to further suggestions to improve information debates on the matter, but I anticipate that they will to them. There are many sources of information for now have to take place in the next Parliament. The charities; Grantmakers and governmentfunding.org.uk Backbench Business Committee has a few remaining are appropriate examples of where charities can find days in this Parliament, as I have announced, but it the necessary information. I know that if my hon. would be a matter for the Committee to decide whether Friend has suggestions as to how that can be improved we had a general debate on these or other issues. my colleagues will be grateful for them. 473 Business of the House26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 474

Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab): The Leader of Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman often pursues this the House will know that many, many months have issue and we have discussed it before. These are important passed since we agreed the principle of standardised issues; it is always important to learn the lessons from packaging of tobacco. I understand that we are waiting any military conflict. I do not agree with his assessment, for the detail of the regulation to come through. Can he having been to Afghanistan many times. I have to tell us how that will happen, whether it will be dealt reflect on the fact that international terrorist bases were with on the Floor of the House or in Committee, and operating in Afghanistan before the western military when it will happen? action which are not there today. Our national security has been improved as a result, and the lives of millions Mr Hague: I cannot tell the right hon. Gentleman of people in Afghanistan have been improved by the that yet; otherwise I would, of course, have announced action we took. We will disagree on that assessment, but it in the business statement. Details will become clear as no doubt it can continue to be debated over the years the days go by. I have made it clear before that regulations ahead. could be laid but that they could not be made until after a date in early March—I believe in the first week of Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): March. We have not got to the point when those regulations My 13-year-old constituent Lucie Low is suffering from can be made, and we will announce how we are to do it a rare, complex illness and is currently in Medway in due course. hospital in sheer agony. The hospital is working with Great Ormond Street hospital and King’s College hospital Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con): Westcliff to help find a diagnosis and support her pain relief. Will high school for boys, Westcliff high school for girls, the Leader of the House allow for an urgent statement Southend high school for boys and Southend high on supporting children who are suffering from rare school for girls are four superb local grammar schools. health conditions? I met Lucie yesterday in hospital and Will my right hon. Friend find time for a debate on the saw the suffering she is in. Please, may I ask everyone to funding of grammar schools, because at the moment do everything they can to help her and her family at this they are perversely discriminated against in funding difficult time? terms on the grounds of their very success? Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is right to stand up for Mr Hague: As my hon. Friend knows, we support the the needs of his constituent and bring the attention of expansion of all good schools, including good grammar the House to such a case. The Government want to see schools. I know that the schools he mentions are superb all children with complex needs receive the very best grammar schools in his constituency. Grammar schools, care and support. I am pleased to say that since 2010 with their combination of high standards and ambition the number of doctors working in paediatrics has risen on behalf of the pupils, have a very important role to by 11%, but that does not mean that everything is play in this country, so I certainly would not rule out perfect. I will draw the attention of my colleagues at the any debate. Such a debate would have to be pursued Department of Health to what he has said about this through the normal channels, but it would allow him to particular case, so that they can respond to him directly. bring to the House’s attention successful schools such as the Westcliff high schools and Southend high schools Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Given in his area. that it was not possible for me to raise in Health questions or with the chief executive of NHS England Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): On the day when in a personal meeting the continuing concerns about the the whole House celebrates with pride and congratulates procurement of a PET scanner across Staffordshire, our servicemen on their valour in Afghanistan, would it Cheshire and Lancashire, will the Leader of the House not be appropriate to consider early-day motion 813? give assurances, amid concerns about openness and [That this House records its sorrow at the deaths of transparency, that there has been no undue influence 453 British soldiers in Afghanistan and notes the post-conflict from the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington judgements by Brigadier Ed Butler that the UK was (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) as a board member of Alliance? under-prepared and under-resourced, by General Sir Peter There are real concerns about the possibility of a monopoly Wall that the calculus was wrong, by Major General service, which may mean that the contract will need to Andrew Mackay that the war was a series of shifting be referred to the Competition and Markets Authority. plans, unobtainable objectives, propaganda and spin, by Will the Leader of the House find time for a proper, former ambassador Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles that the open debate about these continuing concerns? UK operation was a massive act of collective self-deception by military and politicians unable to admit how badly it Mr Hague: The hon. Lady has raised related concerns was going, and by General Lord Dannatt that the UK before in the House. I am sorry that she was not able to knew it was heading for two considerable size operations do so in Health questions, because there will be no more and really only had the organisation and manpower for Health questions before the election; we are entering a one; and calls for an early inquiry into the conduct of the period in which some Departments will not have further war in order to avoid future blunders.] questions before Dissolution. However, she is still able Early-day motion 813 lists the comments since the to ask written questions and to seek answers in every war of the generals who took part. They universally say other way through correspondence with Health Ministers. that it was futile and an act of self-delusion in which I will draw their attention to the matter that she has lives were wasted. Is it not right that we consider what raised. As Leader of the House, I cannot give her any happened in that war and have a full inquiry as early as assurances about what she has asked, but I know that possible, in order to avoid other hubristic politicians my colleagues will want to attend to what she has raised sending young men to die in vain? in the House today. 475 Business of the House26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 476

Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): May we have a now whether that is in the minds of the Leader of the debate on the spiritual, cultural and musical contribution House and his colleagues, given the implications for all that cathedrals make to the life of the nation? During of us of the date when we cease to be Members of the the 300th anniversary year of the Three Choirs festival, House? will the Leader of the House thank all those who have contributed to the festival over 300 years and the cathedrals Mr Hague: Tempting though it would be to spring a of Worcester, Gloucester and Hereford that have hosted great surprise on the hon. Gentleman and others, the the event, and particularly Hereford that is hosting it date of Dissolution is set down in the Fixed-term this year? Parliaments Act 2011 as 30 March, so there is no doubt at all about that date. Of course, it is possible for people Mr Hague: I certainly congratulate the cathedrals to speculate about a date for Prorogation in advance of of Hereford, Worcester and Gloucester on this Dissolution. The Chancellor has announced that he will 300th anniversary. Cathedrals play an important part in present his Budget on 18 March, however, and I am sure the life of our country. As the House may be aware, the that it will be necessary for the House to debate that Prime Minister has asked me to oversee the plans for Budget at some considerable length, so clearly the date VE day, just after the general election. We have not yet of Prorogation will not be very much in advance of the announced those plans, but I have it in mind that they date of Dissolution. will involve the cathedrals of the country in an important way. They are an important thing to celebrate, as my Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): Local authorities hon. Friend has made clear. throughout the country are finalising their budgets for the coming year. Tonight, Labour-run Harrow council Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): Has will consider proposals from its administration to impose the Leader had a bid from the Department for Transport a garden tax on the collection of garden waste and to for a debate on road safety? Even though our roads are increase the council tax by 1.99%, thereby avoiding a among the safest in the world, the latest casualty statistics referendum, while it is closing down popular libraries, show some worrying trends. There is an ongoing concern including the Bob Lawrence library in my constituency. about cycle safety and the Green Paper on graduated May we have a debate in Government time so that we licensing has disappeared, so there is quite an appetite can consider what local authorities throughout the country for a debate on road safety before Dissolution. Might are doing to decimate local services and increase taxes? that be possible? Mr Hague: The people of Harrow are fortunate to Mr Hague: Road safety is a very important issue that have my hon. Friend to speak up for them when their Members on both sides of the House have always taken local authority is behaving in that way. Rather than seriously and on which broadly the United Kingdom cutting front-line services and hiking council tax, councils has a strong record by international standards. We have should be making sensible savings, such as through to maintain that, and it is right to debate it if there are more joint working, better procurement, cutting fraud any doubts about it. That is a legitimate subject to put and using transparency to drive out waste. It is disappointing forward to the Backbench Business Committee. I cannot that Labour-run councils such as Harrow are taking the offer any Government time for it in the remaining days lazy option of making cuts to the front line, rather than of the Parliament. The Department for Transport does adopting many other local authorities’ best practice of have questions remaining before Dissolution—next making sensible savings. Thursday—and I encourage him to raise the issue then. Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): At my recent Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): May we please jobs and skills fair in Edinburgh, which was attended by have a debate on nuisance phone calls, which would hundreds of my constituents, one of the main conclusions allow us to consider the merits of this week’s announcement was that the job-creation powers in the Work programme by the Government on giving more powers to the are best delivered by local authorities. In the last few Information Commission to stop unwanted calls? The weeks of his distinguished political career, will the proposal has been extremely popular among and warmly Leader of the House take the opportunity to leave a welcomed by my constituents in Bury, Ramsbottom lasting legacy—a legacy for which he will be known the and Tottington. world over—by finding time for the House to pass my Job Creation Powers (Scotland) Bill? Mr Hague: My hon. Friend raises an important issue on which, as he says, the Government made an Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman is exaggerating for announcement this week. The statutory instrument was effect, tempting though it is to leave such a lasting laid this week and will become effective by 6 April. The legacy. Of course, many more powers, including for job measure will make it much easier for the Information creation, will be devolved to the Scottish Parliament by Commissioner’s Office to take action on nuisance calls, whoever wins the general election, because of the including by issuing monetary penalties. We have just implementation of the Smith commission proposals. It had questions to the Department responsible, and while will then be important that there is decentralisation I cannot necessarily offer a debate, that would be a within Scotland, because there is a danger for Scotland good issue on which to pursue one in the coming weeks. and Wales that England will become the most decentralised part of the United Kingdom before long, which will Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): There is much mean that devolution is not really leading to power discussion in the corridors of this place about whether going down to the local level. I know that the hon. the House might dissolve earlier than expected ahead of Gentleman advocates that, but I cannot, just on that the general election. Should not hon. Members know basis, agree to give Government support for his Bill. 477 Business of the House26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 478

Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Children at present is the impact of this country’s having a with Morquio disease, Duchenne muscular dystrophy dramatically stronger economy than the rest of Europe, and tuberous sclerosis are being badly let down by NHS which is producing more migration into the UK. In that England, which cancelled its process of approval of the sense it is a problem of success, but it remains an drugs for these ultra-rare conditions. I am sorry to say important issue. Although the shadow Leader of the that these families now feel that they are being fobbed House raised it in earlier questions, she omitted to off by the Department of Health and Ministers. May mention the completely open-door policy of the Labour we have an urgent statement to confirm that we will Government, during which millions of people migrated have what we asked for—an interim funding solution to to the United Kingdom, and we are certainly not going fund these drugs, to be announced before this Parliament back to those days. is dissolved? Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): Last Mr Hague: My hon. Friend raises an important issue, week I met Sam, Charlotte, Sarah and Sara, constituents which will be vital for the people most affected by it. As of mine, who gave me their personal testimonies about I have already pointed out, we have had the last regular the physical, emotional and sexual violence that they Health questions of this Parliament, but Ministers had suffered, perpetrated by their ex-partners. I am sure will continue to respond to written questions and the Leader of the House will commend their bravery in correspondence. I think the best thing I can do to help coming forward to talk to their MP about that. They my hon. Friend is to refer this to the Health Ministers are also campaigning for safe spots with businesses and and tell them of his concern so that they can respond to public agencies in Wythenshawe town centre, where him directly. people may go in future for advice and support. My parliamentary office has signed up to be one such safe Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab): Following spot. Is it time that the House authorities considered a campaign by the Union of Construction, Allied Trades creating a safe spot here on the parliamentary estate? and Technicians, Labour colleagues and me, the Chancellor announced in his autumn statement a consultation on Mr Hague: That is an interesting idea. I salute the rip-off umbrella payroll companies. However, recent courage of the individuals whom the hon. Gentleman written answers show that the Government intend only met. I have had many distressing conversations to tinker around the edges and will not close the loopholes internationally with victims of sexual violence—he will that result in workers losing hundreds of pounds per be aware of my campaign on that—and I am very much month. Can the Leader of the House tell us when the aware of the courage that it takes to speak out and to Chancellor will formally announce his plans to the speak to other people about such experiences. We will House and explain why low-paid workers continue to have to consider with other authorities in the House lose out under his Government? whether it is possible to do what he has just proposed, but we should give consideration to that. Mr Hague: There will be many opportunities in the coming month to debate matters with the Chancellor, Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I wonder who is regularly in the House. It will be Treasury whether the Leader of the House could give me some questions on 10 March and then, of course, he will guidance on next week’s business. I have a number of present the Budget on 18 March. I do not know when private Members’ Bills that I can move on Friday. Will the Chancellor intends to present his final conclusions he indicate which ones the Government are going to on that, but we will have debates on the Budget so it will support so that I know what to concentrate on? Here is be possible to debate what is or is not in the Budget the list: the Wind Farm Subsidies (Abolition) Bill, the statement in the course of those debates. That will be Department of Energy and Climate Chance (Abolition) the best opportunity for the hon. Lady. Bill, the Foreign National Offenders (Exclusion from the United Kingdom) Bill, the Free Movement of Persons Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): As the Leader of the into the United Kingdom (Derogation) Bill and—my House knows, many of my constituents are concerned personal favourite—the Office of the Deputy Prime about the level of immigration and the strain that that Minister (Abolition) Bill. places upon the NHS, school places and housing, and the effect it has on the overall wages of workers. May we Mr Hague: I cannot indicate a sudden rush of have a debate on immigration to see whether we can Government support for the massive legislative programme address some of those concerns? In such a debate we on which my hon. Friend has embarked so indefatigably— can count the number of Members who accept the indeed, we have all seen on the BBC how many sleepless blindingly obvious: that no Government can control nights he had in order to put together this massive the level of immigration while we are a member of the legislative programme. As he might anticipate, his Office European Union and have free movement of people. of the Deputy Prime Minister (Abolition) Bill could run into handling problems in the coalition Government, Mr Hague: My hon. Friend will be familiar with the to put it mildly, so I do not expect the Government to plans that the Prime Minister has set out—the Conservative perform a sharp about-turn on these issues, but he will party’s plans for after the general election, to negotiate have to wait until the day—it will be exciting—to see a better relationship with the EU and a reformed European which Bills the Government object to. Union in which it will be possible for this country to take actions that we cannot take now, particularly on Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): The work of welfare payments and other issues relating to immigration. VisitWales to promote the tourism industry in Wales This is, of course, a very important issue, which my hon. would be greatly enhanced were VAT on tourism to be Friend has raised regularly. Part of what we are seeing reduced. May we have a debate on reducing VAT on 479 Business of the House26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 480 tourism, particularly given its importance for rural areas, importance of the issue of violence against women and which are very dependent on the tourism sector, including girls. In this country, two women a week still get killed counties such as Ceredigion and Montgomeryshire, which by a partner or former partner. Will he consider providing is soon to be the Leader of the House’s home county? some Government time on Thursday 12 March, when we have sixth-form girls coming to shadow their MPs Mr Hague: I certainly recommend to everybody in from all parts of the House—also supported by Mr Speaker the country, and indeed around the world, tourism in —so that we can inspire the next generation to say no to Wales where they can see many splendid sites, some domestic abuse and violence? very fine countryside and great history. That is true in Ceredigion, where I know tourism is a key industry. Mr Hague: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I There are opportunities coming up in the House—Treasury congratulate her very much on all she has done to questions on 10 March and then the Budget debate—to highlight this issue. I am delighted that the Backbench raise issues about VAT. In the meantime, I know that Business Committee has allocated time on the Floor of that Welsh Government can and do provide support for the House, not on 12 March but on 5 March, next week, tourism, and all of us can set a good example of for a debate to mark international women’s day. That tourism in Wales. will allow Members to raise issues celebrating the achievements of women but also about tackling violence Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): Looking around the against women. It is right that the House keeps that on Chamber, it is quite clear that not all of us come from the agenda, and I am determined to keep it on the advantaged or affluent backgrounds, and perhaps that international agenda. I welcome everything my hon. includes you, Mr Speaker, and even the Leader of the Friend does on this, including helping to bring people House. In the previous Parliament, when I was shadow to the House to discuss these things on 12 March. Minister for Innovation, Universities and Skills, and then shadow Minister for Innovation and Science, it Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): May we have an became increasingly clear that social mobility was slowing urgent statement on the fact that doctors are charging down. I therefore very much welcome the recent figures families £80 every time they sign a cremation consent showing that 20% more people from disadvantaged form? A resident in my constituency, Lee Dangerfield, backgrounds are now going to university. May we have had to pay £160 to doctors when his father sadly passed a debate on the growing levels of social mobility resulting away, causing him financial hardship at what was already from the policies of the coalition Government? a difficult time. In 2010, it was estimated that doctors were topping up their salaries by an extra £15 million a Mr Hague: I think that is an excellent idea. That year by signing these forms. Will my right hon. Friend increase in the proportion of people from disadvantaged write to the Health Secretary about this to see why these backgrounds going to university is a significant fees are necessary, given that this practice seems to be development, and it is very different from what was part of the day-to-day job of being a doctor in the free forecast when tuition fees and other matters were being NHS? debated in the House. It is a very serious success. It will help long-term social mobility.I would very much welcome such a debate, although I cannot offer it, given the Mr Hague: As my right hon. Friend the Health constraints on Government time. It is the sort of debate Secretary is in his place and has been listening to that that my hon. Friend could put to the Backbench Business question, I shall not need to write to him about it; he Committee. has taken note of it. The Government are committed to reform of the death certification system. When a patient Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): Less than 2% of dies, it is the statutory duty of the doctor who has medical research funding in the UK is directed towards attended them in their last illness to issue a medical the eye and sight-related issues. Given that 40 people a certificate of cause of death. There is no fee payable for day—about the number of Members in the Chamber completing that, but there are other forms before cremation today—lose their sight, and up to 2 million people in of a deceased patient. The proposed reform of the this country are living with sight loss-related issues, may system to which the Government are committed would we have a debate in Government time to see how we can remove the need for cremation form fees. My right hon. address the issue and increase funding in the next Friend has heard my hon. Friend’s point about the Parliament? urgency of tackling this.

Mr Hague: We might not be able to have a debate Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): During this Parliament before Dissolution, but I can tell my hon. Friend that we have had the welcome practice of Government coming investment in eye-related research by the National Institute to the House in the event that military action is for Health Research has risen over the past four years, contemplated. What would happen during Dissolution from £7.1 million a year to £15.6 million. Although that in the very serious event that that might again be the is a small proportion of total research, the amount has case? doubled under this Government. The institute welcomes funding applications for research into any aspect of Mr Hague: An important convention has grown up human health, including eye care, so there is every that the Government come to the House in the event of opportunity to expand that research further in the military action. During a Dissolution there is no provision coming months and years. for the recall of the House. When Parliament has been dissolved, none of us are MPs after 30 March so it is Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): My not possible to recall it. In the highly unusual circumstances right hon. Friend has done incredible work on sexual of military action that might then arise, of course we violence in conflicts, so he absolutely understands the continue very much to have a Government who would, 481 Business of the House26 FEBRUARY 2015 Business of the House 482

[Mr Hague] in its area, and it is for the council to prioritise its local investment needs, but if it does not give proper priority I am sure, in any set of circumstances handle the to Pendle, people will know how to vote in coming situation extremely responsibly. This Government are elections. always vigilant about our national security, and that will remain the case during Dissolution. I think that in Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): May we have a debate the circumstances that my hon. Friend mentions, what on the funding of school transport? There is concern would happen in practice is that whoever emerged in among parents in Rugby, where we have choice in government after the general election would need to secondary education, including three excellent grammar come to Parliament as soon as possible thereafter for schools—Lawrence Sheriff, Rugby high and Ashlawn—that parliamentary debate on the issue. the local authority is considering the withdrawal of funding for transport for pupils who do not attend their Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): closest school. If implemented, that could lead to some We are in the middle of Fairtrade fortnight. On Saturday, young people being denied the education to which they I will join Harrogate Fairtrade Campaign at St Peter’s are entitled. church for its annual fair trade coffee morning. I am rather looking forward to that, having been the borough’s Mr Hague: As my hon. Friend will know, the statutory fair trade champion for years, and it is always a very position is that the local authority must provide free successful event. May we have a debate about fair trade home-to-school transport for pupils of compulsory school and its impact on millions of people across the developing age who attend their nearest suitable school, provided world, and perhaps also look at what we can do to that the school is beyond the statutory walking distance. encourage more towns and boroughs to become fair Beyond that, however, local authorities have discretion trade champions? about what to do. A debate would certainly allow him to explore further with Ministers his view that all pupils Mr Hague: I congratulate my hon. Friend on his should get the education they deserve, regardless of work on fair trade. It would indeed be very good if their ability to pay for transport, which is a very important other towns followed his example and that of Harrogate consideration. I encourage him to pursue such a debate in having an annual Fairtrade coffee morning and other through all the normal channels of Adjournment debates activities. Fair trade plays a very important role in and the Backbench Business Committee. improving the lives of some of the poorest people in the world, and the UK Government are a committed partner Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I bring good of Fairtrade. I doubt that there will be time for a debate news from Kettering. Last night, Conservative-controlled before the Dissolution of Parliament, but I can tell him Kettering borough council, of which I have the privilege that the UK’s commitment is demonstrated by the fact to be a member, announced that it will freeze its share that the Department for International Development of council tax for the fifth year in a row, while confirming has recently extended our support for Fairtrade lower car parking charges and protecting funding for International to £18 million over six years. front-line services and the voluntary sector. May we have a statement from the Department for Communities Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Thanks to substantial and Local Government about this remarkable success school capital funding from the current Government, story? Such a statement could highlight how many when Lancashire county council was run by the other councils have managed to freeze council tax over Conservatives funding was allocated for four brand-new the lifetime of this Parliament to deliver cost-effective, primary schools across Pendle, which have now all been value-for-money local government services. built and opened, and for a £6.2 million facelift for West Craven high school. Sadly, since Labour won back Mr Hague: The good news from Kettering never control in 2013, Pendle is once again being overlooked. seems to end, which is very closely connected with my May we have time for a debate in which I can highlight hon. Friend’s tenure as Member of Parliament for the need for investment in some of our other high Kettering and, as he says, with the good work of his schools, such as Park high school in Colne, which I have Conservative-controlled council. That sort of record— been calling for since I was elected? freezing council tax for the fifth year running, while reducing other charges and improving local services— Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is a great champion for is exactly what responsibly run local authorities have Pendle on all issues. Since 2011, we have allocated been able to achieve. It is a dramatic contrast with the £112 million for the improvement and maintenance of doubling of council tax across the country under the schools in Lancashire, and we have recently announced previous Labour Government. It is exactly the kind of a further £23.8 million for the coming year, so Pendle thing that could be achieved by more local authorities ought to have its fair share. Lancashire county council across the country if they followed the example of is responsible for the maintenance of community schools Kettering. 483 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) 484

Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) that took place over more than 20 years between 1968 and 1992. From the brave victims who have come forward, we know that Savile’s activities there included 11.29 am groping, molestation and rape of patients, staff and The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): visitors. The victims were predominantly, but not exclusively, With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will make a statement female. Twenty of them were vulnerable patients who on the NHS investigations into Jimmy Savile. were disabled with severe spinal injuries. One was a child as young as eight. Savile deliberately exploited This morning, a further 16 investigations into the those people because he understood their reliance on activities of Savile in the NHS were published. Those specialist care that they might only be able to receive at include the main report from Stoke Mandeville hospital Stoke Mandeville, making it even harder for them to and reports from 15 other hospitals. One report relates speak up. It was calculating behaviour of the most to Johnny Savile, the older brother of Jimmy Savile. abhorrent kind. Victims included 26 visitors and six Although no system can ever be totally secure from a staff. Six victims reported being raped, one as young as manipulative and deceitful predator such as Savile, we 11 or 12. Most victims were too frightened to come learned last year that there were clear failings in the forward, but there were nine informal complaints and security, culture and processes of many NHS organisations, one made formally. None was taken seriously. allowing terrible abuse to continue unchecked over many There is no suggestion that Ministers or officials years. knew about those activities, but accepted governance Some victims are sadly no longer with us and others processes were not followed in the decision to allow continue to suffer greatly as a result of what happened. Savile to acquire and maintain a position of authority I apologised to them last June on behalf of the Government, at the hospital. In particular, Ministers made the expedient and today I repeat that apology: what happened was decision to use Savile not just to raise funds to redevelop horrific, caused immeasurable and often permanent Stoke Mandeville’s national spinal injuries centre but to damage, and betrayed vulnerable people who trusted us oversee the building and running of the centre, even to keep them safe. We let them down. As one of the though he had no relevant experience. Because of his Stoke Mandeville victims said: celebrity and useful fundraising skills, the right questions— “There are so many messed up lives—although people have the hard questions—simply were not asked. Suspicions built up lives, you have children, you make a life, it ruins everything, were not acted on, and patients and staff were ignored. your relationships with another human being—the things you are People were either too dazzled or too intimidated by the supposed to have.” nation’s favourite celebrity to confront the evil predator Today, we must show by our deeds as well as our words we now know he was. Never again must the power of that we have learned the necessary lessons. money or celebrity blind us to repeated, clear signals The new reports, like those released last year, make such as those that suggested that some extremely vulnerable extremely distressing reading. In total, 177 men and people were being abused. women have come forward with allegations of abuse by I spoke last June about how changes to processes, Jimmy Savile, covering a period beginning in 1954 and policies and laws over the past 30 years have made it lasting until just before his death in 2011. At least much less likely that a predator like Savile would be able 72 people who gave evidence were children at the time to perpetrate these crimes today. Charity legislation is of the abuse, the youngest only five years old. The much tougher and sets out specific requirements for the allegations include rape, assault, indecent assault and auditing and examination of NHS charities’ accounts. inappropriate comments or advances. The safeguarding system now in place is significantly Allegations have been made not in one or two places, improved. The Children Act 1989, the first child sex but in over 41 acute hospitals—almost a quarter of all offenders register, Criminal Records Bureau checks and NHS acute hospitals—as well as in five mental health the Disclosure and Barring Service have all provided trusts and two children’s hospitals. Further investigations further protection. The Care Act 2014 will put adult have happened at a children’s convalescent home, an safeguarding on a legal footing for the first time from ambulance service and a hospice. Three new investigations 1 April, and safeguarding adults boards will ensure that are under way at Humber NHS Foundation Trust, local safeguarding arrangements act to help and protect Mersey Care NHS Trust and Guy’s and St Thomas’ adults. We have enshrined the right to speak up in staff NHS Foundation Trust. Any further allegations that contracts, and we are amending the NHS constitution are received will, of course, be investigated as serious and changing the law to make employers responsible if incidents. whistleblowers are harassed or bullied by fellow employees. We are also consulting on how best to implement the In addition, the Department for Education has today recommendations in Sir Robert Francis’s whistleblowing published 14 reports on investigations in children’s homes review. and educational settings, and the review by Dame Janet Smith into Savile’s activities at the BBC is ongoing. However, proper policies and processes will not succeed if they do not go hand in hand with a change in culture The investigations have been deeply harrowing for whereby patients and staff alike feel able to speak out the victims, but also for the investigators. I put on the with any concerns, and can be confident that they will record my thanks to everyone involved, particularly be listened to. It is particularly important that children Kate Lampard and those at the NHS Savile Legacy and those with physical and mental illnesses are listened Unit, who have provided robust oversight and assurance to, because they are the most vulnerable. Although we in an incredibly difficult job. are proud to live in a society in which people are I now turn to Stoke Mandeville—the hospital with innocent until proven guilty, we have a collective which Savile was most closely associated. The report responsibility to investigate all serious allegations properly published today reveals some shocking abuse of 60 victims in a way that simply did not happen time after time. 485 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)26 FEBRUARY 2015 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) 486

[Mr Jeremy Hunt] procedures are in place locally, as well as the DBS process, because it would be wrong to rely on a national In the light of these disturbing reports, I also asked database as a substitute for local common sense and Kate Lampard to outline key themes across all the NHS vigilance. investigations and to consider any further action that The report recommends that DBS checks are redone needs to be taken. She considered the extent to which every three years. I believe the report is correct to say Savile was a product of the culture of his time and that trusts must ensure that their information on volunteers concluded that although he was “a one-off”, there is up to date, but they can achieve that through asking are important improvements that need to be made volunteers to make use of the DBS update service that to protect patients today. Hers is a thoughtful and enables trusts to check DBS information regularly, and comprehensive report, and I am today accepting in avoids volunteers having to go through the DBS process principle 13 recommendations that she makes, including multiple times. We will be advising all trusts to do that. on access, volunteering, safeguarding, complaints and governance. Trusts should develop policies on visits by Finally, I intend to take action in one area of great celebrities, and on internet and social media access concern that the report highlights, namely the responsibility across hospitals. They should review voluntary service and accountability of staff working with vulnerable arrangements, safeguarding resources and the consistency people to take appropriate action when alerted to potential of employment practices, ensuring clear executive abuse. As the report recognises, the Government have responsibility. They should consider whether policies substantially strengthened safeguarding arrangements on the impact of volunteers on a trust’s reputation are since these dreadful events, but it is clear that there adequate. should have been a much stronger incentive on staff and managers to pass on information so that a proper The Department, with its arm’s length bodies, will investigation took place. That is clearly unacceptable, examine the possible development of a forum for NHS and the Government have already said that we will voluntary service managers, the raising of awareness of consult on introducing a new requirement for the mandatory safeguarding referrals among NHS employers, and to reporting of abuse of children and vulnerable adults. what extent NHS trust staff and volunteers should The outcome of such a consultation must take full undergo refresher training in safeguarding. account of the need to avoid unintended consequences. I know that some trusts that produced reports last Let me conclude with a tribute to the victims who summer have started to make improvements. One trust have had the courage to come forward, because without has already encouraged staff to raise concerns, updated them these investigations would not have been possible: its whistleblowing and complaints policy and published it is our society’s shame that you were ignored for so a policy on the recruiting and management of volunteers. long, but it is a tribute to your bravery that today we can It is that kind of sensible, swift action that I want to see take actions to prevent others from going through the across the NHS. I have therefore asked the chief executives misery you have endured. As a result, our NHS will be of Monitor and the Trust Development Authority to made safer for thousands of children and vulnerable ensure that all trusts review their current practice against adults as we learn the uncomfortable lessons from this the recommendations within three months, and then to terrible tragedy. I commend this statement to the House. write back to me with a summary of plans and progress at each trust. Those plans will be fed into the Government’s ongoing work to tackle child sexual exploitation. 11.43 am One welcome practice that Kate Lampard’s report Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): I thank the Secretary highlights is the growth in volunteering to support the of State for his considered and thorough statement, and work of the NHS. Overall across the NHS we estimate for his evident concern for the many lives that have been there are 78,000 volunteers, including 1,500 at just one damaged by these vile acts and systemic failures. He trust—King’s—in London. They do a magnificent job was right to repeat his apology to Savile’s many victims in improving patient care every single day throughout and their families, and the whole House will support his the NHS. We welcome that civic revolution, and today decision to do so. I add my thanks to all those involved need to ensure that any safeguards put in place support in compiling these reports, and particularly Kate Lampard its future growth by helping to protect the reputation of and Ed Marsden for their “Lessons Learned” report. volunteering as well as the safety of patients. Hard cases Through their diligent work, the full scale and horror of make bad law, and it would be the ultimate tragedy if Savile’s sickening behaviour across the NHS has finally Savile’s legacy was to hold back the work of the NHS’s been laid bare. It beggars belief that abuse on this scale, true heroes who give so much to their local hospital by known to so many people, was allowed to continue for volunteering their time. so long. As the analysis of what happened becomes While I agree that all volunteers working in regulated more complete and the full picture emerges, the question activity—typically close or unsupervised contact with will grow in people’s minds: “Where is the accountability?” patients—should have an enhanced Disclosure and That is what victims are crying out for, and that is what Barring Service check, I am not today accepting the must follow. It must be the single most important recommendation that that should apply to all volunteers. question occupying the Government in dealing with As Kate Lampard acknowledges in her report, such a these matters, and it must continue to be a priority for system may not in itself have stopped Savile. Instead, the next Government and the next Parliament. trusts should take a considered approach to checks on Much of what is revealed in the reports confirms all volunteers, particularly using the enhanced DBS what we already know about a pattern of criminal service if there is a possibility that someone will be behaviour in hospitals where patients and victims were asked at a future date to work closely with patients. not listened to and staff felt unable or unwilling to They should also ensure that proper safeguarding challenge, but what changes with the Stoke Mandeville 487 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)26 FEBRUARY 2015 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) 488 report is that it is now no longer possible to say that should be made to feel unable to speak up for fear of although the abuse was widespread, it was not known “letting the hospital down”. They must feel fully supported to people in senior positions. Nine verbal reports and at all times in reporting any act of abuse against anybody one formal complaint were made, but none was acted in the place in which they work. While we welcome the upon. Why? The questions do not just extend to senior action the Secretary of State is taking to support NHS staff at the hospitals, and the Secretary of State was whistleblowers and strengthen their position, we cannot right to raise questions about the role of civil servants complacently think that this will be enough in these and former Ministers. To quote one of the main kinds of situations. observations of the “Lessons Learned” report: On Monday, the Government voted against the new “As the investigations at Broadmoor and at Stoke Mandeville legal requirement for those working in schools, hospitals show, Savile’s involvement with those hospitals was supported and child care settings to report to the police child and facilitated by Ministers or senior civil servants”. abuse in institutional settings. The purpose of such a We already knew that he was appointed by Edwina requirement would be to make sure that no professional Currie to the taskforce that ran Broadmoor between ever felt the protection of the reputation of the institution 1988 and 1989, but today’s Stoke Mandeville report should take priority over the protection of a child or states: pursuing the truth. I listened carefully to what the “From 1980 Savile’s relationship with Stoke Mandeville Hospital Secretary of State said about this today. He said that underwent a significant change when he was appointed by Government there will now be a process of consultation on a proposed Ministers…to fundraise for…the new National Spinal Injuries Centre”. mandatory reporting duty. That is indeed a step forward, which I welcome. I understand why the Government The “Lessons Learned” report concludes: would want to consult—because of the effect such a “In appointing Savile to these roles, and in allowing him the requirement could have on the working of an organisation. licence and free rein he had in exercising these roles, Ministers and/or civil servants either overrode or failed to observe accepted I want to push the right hon. Gentleman a little further governance processes.” and say that this consultation should not be open-ended, That extremely serious finding needs to be acted upon. but a consultation leading to a firm commitment to legislate at the earliest opportunity—if not in this, in I do not expect the Secretary of State today to answer the next Parliament. I believe that that is the growing these points in detail, and I welcome what he said in will of this House and I believe it will be the growing facing up to the findings, but does he agree that they will of the next one. point to the need for a more formal inquiry process involving senior people from that time—senior people On vetting and barring, the Secretary of State made in the hospitals concerned, senior people in the Department some welcome proposals, and Kate Lampard has of Health and former Ministers? Knowing what we highlighted the need for a new focus on this area. There now know, we cannot simply leave this here. Victims is a concern that changes to the vetting and barring must have accountability. That must be our shared goal scheme in this Parliament have significantly weakened across the House. its ability to protect children from convicted sex offenders. Alongside accountability, Savile’s victims need help. There is a concern that some offenders are being left off As the Secretary of State said, many lives have been the list or that there is now a limit to the number of damaged by what happened and will never recover. roles that offenders can be checked against, so that the Nothing can be done to heal their pain, but there are potential for offenders to gain access to vulnerable things that could help them. In his last statement, he people has increased. said that he would continue to explore the possibility of Will the Secretary of State look again at the proposals compensating victims using Savile’s estate to fund any put forward by my right hon. Friend the shadow Home claims. Will he update the House on that work? Is the Secretary, and ensure that every possible step is taken to value of Savile’s estate anywhere near enough to provide close any possible loophole that could be exploited by a adequate compensation to his many victims? Has the sex offender? As Kate Lampard rightly said, hospitals Secretary of State made any judgment about whether in the coming era are going to have to be more reliant public funding is needed to help compensate them? on the work of volunteers and on fundraising. That is Today’s news will distress everyone directly affected. the context in which the NHS will operate for some What steps are being taken to them offer counselling considerable time and, in that context, there will be a and other support? need for a greater number of checks to ensure that those Turning directly to the “Lessons Learned” report, participating in the volunteering or the fundraising are while these appalling events come from a very different appropriate people for roles in any hospital organisation. era, it would be a major mistake for the House or I ask the Secretary of State to ensure that the vetting anybody reading the reports to think they have no and barring scheme is up to that task, so that we leave relevance to today. To quote a chilling conclusion from no loopholes for convicted paedophiles or sex offenders the Lampard and Marsden report: to exploit. “The evidence we have gathered indicated that there are many In conclusion, these are painful, appalling and sickening elements of the Savile story that could be repeated in future.” events that are a dark chapter in the history of the NHS We know that a child cancer specialist from Addenbrooke’s and indeed of our country. We applaud the Secretary of was recently convicted for sexual offences against vulnerable State and the Government for their commitment and boys as young as eight who were in his care. thoroughness in facing up to these events of our past. I Even though the world was very different in the 1970s can assure the right hon. Gentleman of our full support and 1980s, it is impossible to read these reports without in bringing accountability and redress for the victims, wondering how so many people could have known what and in ensuring that whatever can be done across the was going on, yet felt they could not do anything about Floor of the House is done, so that these kind of events it. It must never again be the case that a member of staff can never take place again in our national health service. 489 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)26 FEBRUARY 2015 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) 490

Mr Hunt: I thank the shadow Health Secretary for legislation were badly drafted. It is particularly important his constructive comments. I think the whole House will for us to protect the ability of professionals to make unite to ensure that all the necessary lessons are learned. judgments based on their assessment of what is actually I echo the right hon. Gentleman’s praise for the 44 very happening. thorough reports that involved such painstaking and We want to avoid the risk that the processes that are difficult work, and the superb job done by Kate Lampard followed, and the ultimate decisions that are made, will and Ed Marsden in bringing together all those reports not be in the best interests of the children or vulnerable and thinking about the lessons that needed to be learned. adults concerned because people are following a legalistic As the right hon. Gentleman observed, Kate Lampard process rather than doing what is right on the ground. has stated very clearly that while she does not think that No one would want that to happen, which is why it is so there will be another instance of this kind in the future, important for us to get the legislation exactly right. I elements of it could come about. It would be a mistake can tell the right hon. Gentleman, however, that following to say that this is all about stopping another Savile. We the consultation—which we will carry out soon as need to think more broadly about how abuse could take possible—we will legislate if necessary. place in a modern context, and ensure that we learn It is also important to say that there is a role for the broader lessons—which, indeed, we are learning in the professional codes in this area; this is about the correct context of what has happened in Rotherham, in Rochdale professional ethics. We changed the professional codes and elsewhere. for doctors and nurses following the Francis report, to The right hon. Gentleman is right about the role of encourage them to speak out, and there may well be accountability, which clearly needs to be greatly improved. lessons that need to be learned in that regard. Let me answer, very directly, his question “Why was On the operation of the disclosure and barring system, nothing done?” I think the report makes clear why we will of course look closely at what the shadow Home nothing was done, and this is the tragedy. It was Savile’s Secretary is suggesting, but a big improvement has been importance, because of his fundraising, to institutions made to the new DBS arrangements, compared with the such as Stoke Mandeville in particular, as well as his old Criminal Records Bureau system, in the form of the celebrity, that made people afraid to speak out—and we update service. Volunteers can subscribe to that service, should remember that, in all likelihood, many people and we are recommending today that all trusts ask have still not spoken out—but also made it less likely volunteers to do so as a condition of their volunteering— that something would be done when they did speak out, and that is what must never, ever be allowed to happen Mr Speaker: Order. These are extremely important again. matters of the highest sensitivity, and I appreciate the The report does not directly criticise Ministers and solicitousness with which the Secretary of State is treating civil servants for the abuse. It says there is no evidence them, but we have two heavily subscribed debates to that they had any knowledge of it. We must recognise, which we have to progress and, before them, a statement however, that the system itself was flawed, which is why from the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), the fact of the abuse never reached the ears of Ministers who chairs the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. and others who were making decisions about Savile’s The Front-Bench exchanges have so far taken up half influence. What the report does say is that it was an hour, and that is too long. I should therefore be most questionable whether processes should have been grateful for the co-operation of the Secretary of State. overridden, particularly in respect of financial propriety. If he could pithily draw his remarks to a close so that we The role that Savile was given in the construction of the can get on to the questioning by hon. Members from new spinal injures centre at Stoke Mandeville was smoothed the Back Benches, that would be a great advance for the over as quickly as possible, because people thought that House and possibly for civilisation. he would be able to bring a lot of money to the table, and that he would “walk”—that was the word used by Mr Hunt: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I did want to give the civil servants—if any bureaucratic obstacles were a full response to the shadow Health Secretary, but I am put in his way. That was wrong, and we can see that. It is happy to address any other concerns he has at a later vital for us to learn the lessons. stage. The right hon. Gentleman asked about the value of the Savile estate. A total of £40 million remains under Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): The Secretary of management in his charities. That money will be made State has set out in the starkest terms the extent of the available to meet claims made by Savile’s victims, and if vile abuse perpetrated by Savile. It is also chilling to it is not enough, the Government will meet any further note in Kate Lampard’s excellent report that between claims through the NHS Litigation Authority. I can 60% and 90% of child abuse is still going unreported. also confirm that any counselling that the victims need Those who perpetrate it are adept at adapting their will be made available to them by the NHS. mechanisms, and recommendation 9 in the report mentions I do not think that there is an disagreement in principle the extent to which abusers use social media to abuse on the issue of mandatory reporting, but it is important children on hospital sites. Can the Secretary of State for a proper consultation to take place, which is why it tell the House whether he is going to implement would not have been right to pass a law as early as last recommendation 9, and if so, how that will happen? week. We all want there to be a proper, strong incentive for those who are responsible for the care of vulnerable Mr Hunt: Yes, we are; that is very important. We adults and children to report any concerns that are absolutely accept the principle that all hospitals must raised with them, and to ensure that something is done have explicit policies on the use of social media. We if any allegations are made. However, we also want to must do everything we can. It is difficult to stop people avoid the unintended consequences that might follow if going on to Facebook, for example, but when it comes 491 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)26 FEBRUARY 2015 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) 492 to internet access by children, there are things that we that 60% to 90% of current assaults on children are can do, and we will absolutely be implementing that probably going unreported. Does the Health Secretary recommendation. not think that better—indeed, compulsory—sexual relationships education in schools would mean that Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab): I was children are more likely to come forward and, importantly, Savile’s Member of Parliament and, as the Secretary of that once they have gone through that education at State can imagine, Leeds North East has its fair share of school their parents would be more likely to believe his victims. One such victim approached me recently in them? great distress. He had been abused as a child by Savile and had given his story to the police after decades, but it Mr Hunt: I do think it is very important to have good was not a complete story. When he was subsequently sex education in schools and that we make sure that all interviewed by NHS staff, they did not believe his story children understand when a boundary has been crossed because it was inconsistent, owing to the fear that he and when they need to speak out. That is an important had felt over the decades following the abuse. Will the lesson from this report. Secretary of State reassure my constituent and the many others like him that they will not become victims Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con): May I draw the twice? House’s attention to another report published today, that concerning Rampton hospital in my constituency? Mr Hunt: The hon. Gentleman makes an important Jimmy Savile was given almost unrestricted access to point, and I have great sympathy for his constituent. one of the UK’s most highly secure hospitals, which The information was not collated centrally. There were adds another layer to the matter. Rampton hospital a number of reports about which we might have been contains some of the UK’s most dangerous patients. sceptical if we had read them in isolation, but when we One of the most concerning issues in the Rampton read them together with other reports, we see a pattern report is that for staff his activities were described as an and we can conclude, as the investigation has done, that “open secret” but that management may not have known those incidents did indeed take place. That is one of the about them. If that finding is credible—it does not ring big learning points: we have to collate information that true with colleagues at the hospital I have spoken to—and different victims provide at different times, to ensure is to be believed, would the Secretary of State give that proper judgments can be made and that action can thought and resources to how we deal with whistleblowing be taken. and reporting in these most closed and secretive environments, where it seems to be the most important Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): to have an open culture? It has been truly sickening to read in the report that over two decades, money, influence, celebrity and people being star-struck could allow Savile the licence serially Mr Hunt: My hon. Friend speaks wisely. There were to abuse so many people, particularly in our local four separate disclosures of sexually inappropriate behaviour Buckinghamshire hospital at Stoke Mandeville. I really by Savile in separate incidents, not with patients, but welcome the apologies from the Secretary of State and with other people, including a young child. My hon. from our local chief executive officer, Anne Eden, who Friend is right: it is not just about mandatory reporting; has given a heartfelt apology and praised the courage of it is also about making sure that when that reporting is those who have come forward. May I press the Secretary done by a member of staff, something actually happens. of State further on mandatory reporting? It is exceedingly That is part of the reason we need to do this consultation important that we start that consultation as rapidly as properly, because it is about making sure that the right possible. It was obvious that the proposed clause in the actions are taken by people who are able to take those Serious Crime Bill was flawed in many ways. When will actions. That clearly did not happen in this case. he start the consultation, and when will the terms of reference be available? Will he now undertake to legislate Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): On 11 different as soon as the consultation has produced results? occasions, Savile attended new year’s eve parties at 10 Downing street. He was honoured, knighted and Mr Hunt: I can certainly give that undertaking: we lionised by the establishment. They might not have will start the consultation as soon as possible and if the known, but the unanswered question is: why did the conclusion is for legislation, we will legislate as soon as intelligence and security services not warn? Why did possible. I hope that my right hon. Friend understands they constantly give him clearance, allowing him not that there is a great deal of complexity involved in only to mix with Prime Ministers and royalty, but to getting this right. It is very important to talk to victims prey on these defenceless innocents? and to people who are looking at the evidence on mandatory reporting, which happens in other parts of Mr Hunt: The reason, I think, is that the security the world, with very mixed results. Most importantly, services would not have known about this. What the we want to avoid the unintended consequence of a report makes clear is that where people did speak out decision being taken against the interests of a child or about concerns, nothing was done. That is what is so vulnerable person because people are following a legalistic unacceptable and what we have to change. Savile was a process which undermines the proper professional judgment national celebrity, who was treated as such by the made on the ground. establishment at the time, the establishment not having any idea of this evil abuse that was happening. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): The sheer scale of this—the number of assaults, and the range of Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con): I am very victims and locations—is just horrific, as I am sure grateful to hear the Secretary of State’s statement, and I everyone will agree. As has been said, the report states am sure it will provide reassurance in my constituency, 493 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)26 FEBRUARY 2015 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) 494

[Mr Dominic Grieve] those funds to be spent on centres of expertise around the country. Is it not critical that we understand the which is also served by Stoke Mandeville hospital, that governance failures in this sorry saga, and that that these terrible events and the underlying issues will be insight feeds into the work of the Goddard inquiry? properly addressed. May I urge the Secretary of State on one point that emerges from the report, which is that Mr Hunt: Of course it is important that we learn the common sense was suspended in this period? We may governance lessons, but the report is careful. It does not consider putting in systems, be it enhancing vetting or use the word “improper” in relation to the behaviour of trying to make sure that volunteers are properly screened, Ministers or civil servants. It says that they acted reasonably. but none of those will ultimately make a difference It raises some important questions, and I hope that the unless the overall culture that is there for the promotion tone of my statement will reassure my hon. Friend that and protection of the patient is so well ingrained that I do not seek to duck the fact that there are clearly people exercise common sense in ensuring that that questions about whether Ministers and civil servants protection is provided. The most worrying aspect of behaved in the appropriate way. It is important that we this report is the way in which that was totally lost over learn the lessons from what went wrong. a prolonged period. Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): I represent the Mr Hunt: My right hon. and learned Friend is right. constituency that is home to Broadmoor hospital, and I That is why, if we change the law on mandatory reporting worked at Stoke Mandeville for two years in the early in any way, we need to be careful that we do not part of this century, so I have taken a deep personal inadvertently give licence to the suspension of common interest in the investigation. I find it difficult to comprehend sense. It is why we decided not to accept only one or accept that senior managers and clinicians were not recommendation—the mandatory disclosure and barring aware of the allegations. I can find no mention in the checks on all volunteers in hospitals, even if they are Stoke Mandeville report of any clinician by name as not in close contact with patients. We believe that yet. Can the Secretary of State assure me that looking common sense and vigilance at local level will be one of to the future, named individuals will be given the the key ways in which we stop this happening again. responsibility to prevent this from happening, and if they fail there will be an impact on them, their career, Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): their pension and the like? The Savile revelations never cease to amaze and shock, but are they in some respects a distraction from the Mr Hunt: The report clearly says that every trust bigger issues? The vast majority of abusers are not must have a named director who is responsible for celebrities. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the safeguarding. One can draw one’s own conclusions bigger issues are the mindset that said, when concerns about whether senior management knew or not. The were raised, “Oh, it’s just Jimmy”, the fact that police report was unable to find evidence that that was the were told to turn a blind eye, and suggestions that other case, but nor did it say that it was not the case. One doctors and clinicians were also active paedophiles and comes away with the clear suspicion that senior management were complicit in the abuse in some way? Is not the may not have wanted to hear the things that they were bigger issue the institutional conspiracy to abuse? How being told because of Savile’s importance in fund raising will this report feed into the essential inquiry now under and possibly his celebrity status. That is what we must way with Justice Lowell Goddard? make sure never happens again.

Mr Hunt: What we are announcing today will be Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): With Stoke Mandeville closely fed into the report that the Home Office is serving my constituents, I was reassured to hear that in currently overseeing. My hon. Friend makes an important the present culture these appalling circumstances are point. Clearly, some things in the report would not not likely to be repeated. Can my right hon. Friend happen today. We can be confident that the culture reassure me that it is now far more likely that we will see across the NHS and social services has changed significantly prosecutions within the lifetime of perpetrators rather in a positive way. There is much greater awareness of than this horrific clean-up exercise after a perpetrator’s safeguarding issues. However, the report also said that death? elements of other things that it highlighted could happen today. That is why it is so important that we learn the Mr Hunt: I do believe that that is the case. I want to necessary lessons. put it on record that Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust, which includes Stoke Mandeville, has made huge Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): The reports make progress in turning round and improving its culture. It it clear that Ministers’ appointment and use of Savile came out of special measures last year and the staff and was improper and often contrary to advice from clinicians management are to be congratulated. His constituents and officials. Former Minister Edwina Currie is quoted can be confident that, although things are not perfect, as telling the investigation last year: huge progress has been made to improve standards. “He knew how to pin people to the wall and get from them what he wanted. … he’d had a look at everything he could use to Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): I welcome the report. I blackmail the POA … I thought it was a pretty classy piece of support mandatory reporting and I look forward to operation.” seeing some serious progress in this respect. Staff and Ministers Vaughan and Jenkin appointed Jimmy Savile volunteers in all sorts of settings need the ability to to oversee the rebuilding of the national spinal injuries report outside their organisation. Where the state is a centre, contrary to advice, we are told in today’s report, corporate parent or a carer, or a provider of an extended from officials who thought that it would be better for home setting, it is important that young and vulnerable 495 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)26 FEBRUARY 2015 Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) 496 people can find some way of reporting outside. Is the the NHS Litigation Authority. The report is not able to Secretary of State willing to strengthen the role, in confirm the extent to which senior management knew conjunction with other Secretaries of State, of the local or did not know about the allegations, so it is difficult to authority designated officer? Already we know that make progress on the specific points, but that does not people in schools and colleges can go to the LADO, but stop people being able to make a claim and receive surely that is also appropriate for health and care settings, compensation. homes, prisons, the armed forces and anywhere else where there are young and vulnerable people. The benefit Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): I echo is that the LADO is perceived as independent and is the Secretary of State’s praise from those involved in someone outside the employer’s strict reporting guidelines. this meticulous investigation and report, but does he It would give a better chance for victims to be heard, acknowledge the concern that the cases of many victims action to be taken and lessons to be learned. of sexual abuse in other organisations and institutions have not involved a celebrity? I have in my possession a Mr Hunt: I am happy to look into that, but hospitals letter from 1993 sent from a Barnardo’s project worker have a responsibility to go to the LADO if there is an in Leeds to Leeds city council, which blames a constituent incident affecting one of their volunteers or staff. The of mine for her own rape. Nothing was done to protect report makes it clear that they should exercise that her. The abuse continued, and that offence was not responsibility with great diligence, but I am happy to reported to the police. Clearly, that would not happen look into the idea that patients should have that access now, but there are still victims whose cases are not being as well. looked at and are not getting justice. What can be done about that? Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): This morning a Mr Hunt: A lot of things, and that is what this legal representative of the survivors group said that she morning is all about. Mandatory reporting so that the had evidence that it had been reported to senior reporting of incidents becomes the norm and not the management that Savile had committed offences at exception is clearly an area where culture has to change. Stoke Mandeville. Can the Secretary of State advise We have to find the right way to do that. Also, if we get whether that opens up the NHS to compensation claims? this culture right, we should be able—this must be the Can he ensure that any damages claims fall on the ultimate objective of all this work—to stop such incidents Savile estate? happening in the first place. If people had acted earlier on their suspicions about Savile, a lot of victims would Mr Hunt: We have already paid compensation claims. have been spared the torment that they subsequently Initially, those claims will be taken from the Savile had to endure. The biggest tragedy of all this is that it estate and the money left in the Savile charities, but if happened over decades and nothing was done. That is those funds prove not to be enough we would pay from what we need to make sure never happens again. 497 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Future of the BBC 498

Future of the BBC then sale of Lonely Planet; and, of course, the editorial failures regarding programmes about Jimmy Savile and then Lord McAlpine. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT COMMITTEE When one looks at the BBC, one must first ask what Select Committee statement it is there to do. There are six stated public purposes, which are pretty broad and uncontroversial, although Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): I will we thought that they could be expanded to take in briefly remind the House of what is still a fairly new training and the development of skills, and the need for procedure. Mr John Whittingdale will speak on his collaboration and partnership. subject for up to 10 minutes, during which no interventions When we looked at the scale of the BBC—what the may be taken. At the conclusion of his statement, I will BBC does—we were unconvinced by the argument that call Members to put questions, and Mr Whittingdale it should continue to try to provide something for will respond to these in turn, as is the case for any everyone. Instead, we say that its principal focus should normal statement. Members can expect to be called be on its public service remit and that it should not be only once, and their interventions should be questions afraid to do less when the market is clearly providing a that are— lot of existing content. The BBC has already embarked on some radical thinking, which we welcome. For instance, Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Lengthy. it has decided to make BBC Three a purely online service, which we generally support. BBC Three has Madam Deputy Speaker: Brief. The hon. Gentleman cost something like £1 billion during the decade in challenges me, but questions should be brief. Front which it has been in existence, yet it has not been Benchers may briefly take part in questioning, and we especially successful at reaching its target audience, so it all look forward to that. is right to consider other means of doing so. However, we do not support establishing a BBC One+1 service in its place, especially given that people can already see 12.21 pm programmes that they have missed through means such Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): I am pleased as catch-up services on the iPlayer. to have the opportunity to present to the House the We welcome moves to remove the in-house production Committee’s report “Future of the BBC”. Our major guarantee and to open up all BBC commissioning to inquiry began well over a year ago, and I express my competition. We also support allowing a separate BBC thanks to my colleagues on the Committee, our Clerks production house to compete for commissions from and our specialist adviser, Mr Ray Gallagher. other broadcasters. However, if the BBC production As is well known, the BBC charter expires at the end unit is to remain within the BBC, there must be full of 2016. The renewal process provides an opportunity transparency and no cross-subsidy so that there is fair to examine all aspects of the BBC—scale, scope, governance competition with the independent production sector. and funding. Since the previous charter renewal, huge We think that the time has come for the charter review changes have taken place to the way in which people to consider the terms of trade. There have been huge watch television. At the time of that renewal, most changes since those terms were originally put in place, households had access to only four channels, but since given a large number of acquisitions of independent then we have had analogue switch-off, meaning that production companies by American studios, so they everyone has access to 40 or more digital channels. need to be looked at again. Many people also access catch-up television through We want more partnership and collaboration with the iPlayer or some of the new streaming services. The the private sector, and we specifically want more support whole media landscape therefore looks very different for local media. They play a vital role in supporting from how it did 10 years before. local democracy and ensuring that electors are aware of The Secretary of State has said that it will be for the what happens in council chambers and local courts, but next Government to consider the future of the BBC and because of economic conditions, a lot of that activity is charter renewal—I understand his reasons—but the no longer happening. We think that the BBC could play Committee points out that at the time of the previous a role in supporting that, perhaps by using some licence review, an independent panel led by Lord Burns conducted fee payers’ money for local media and by extending the a long public consultation before reaching conclusions. independent production quota to cover local news. We think that this matter is so important that a similar The two key aspects, however, are governance and process should take place this time, and there is no funding. On governance, almost every single witness reason why that could not be initiated as soon as from whom we heard was highly critical of the BBC possible. Either way, I hope that our report will set the Trust model. Not only is there an in-built conflict agenda for the forthcoming debate. between the two roles of acting as a regulator and There is no question but that the BBC produces many arbitrator of complaints, as well as providing the highest outstanding programmes. Many of our witnesses told level of oversight and management of the BBC, but us that it is the finest broadcaster in the world. Its reach there is confusion about the trust’s responsibilities. There is 96%, it has an unrivalled reputation for accuracy and have been public arguments between the director-general impartiality, and it is hugely respected, but any organisation and the chairman of the trust, as well as the management that gets £4 billion of public money should be subject to failures to which I referred. close scrutiny. There have also been significant failures The Committee is clear that the trust should be in recent times: the episodes of executive pay-offs, pensions abolished and replaced by a unitary board with a non- and severance payments; the loss of £100 million on the executive chairman and a majority of non-executive digital media initiative; the disastrous acquisition and directors. Responsibility for all aspects of the BBC’s 499 Future of the BBC26 FEBRUARY 2015 Future of the BBC 500 operation would lie with that board, as is the case for Mr Whittingdale: I thank the right hon. Gentleman many big organisations. We accept that there would for the part he played in preparing the report, which need to be external scrutiny, but we are determined that was considerable. I agree with him about the importance we should not recreate the BBC Trust with a different of the creative industries, on which the Select Committee name. We suggest that there could be a smaller public has concentrated. I do not entirely agree with his second service broadcasting commission to scrutinise the overall point, because it is important that there should be a strategic plan of the BBC and assess performance, as genuine debate and a public consultation. We recommended well as to determine public funding and perhaps withhold an independent review panel, and all that would be it, in the event of failure. pre-empted if the political parties set out their conclusions The National Audit Office should be given unfettered in their manifestos, which are to be published in four or access. The Comptroller and Auditor General complained five weeks’ time. about the difficulties that he still faces and we see no reason why the NAO should not have statutory access. Damian Green (Ashford) (Con): As chair of the all- We also believe that Ofcom should have responsibility party BBC group, I congratulate my hon. Friend and for all content regulation. his Committee, particularly on their ideas for preserving Funding was always going to be the most controversial a universal funding mechanism at a time when the aspect of the inquiry. The licence fee is simple and licence fee is becoming technologically more difficult to universal, and it arguably maintains arm’s length justify, because it is that universal funding mechanism independence from the Government, but it is regressive, that has provided the basis for all the good things about compulsory and expensive to collect, so we considered the BBC that he and his Committee rightly praised. If various alternatives. In the short term, we found that universal funding is preserved, as I hope it will be, has there is no realistic alternative to some form of licence he considered the importance of the BBC working fee or household tax, although we support a number of more in partnership in future, especially with local changes. The arrangements should immediately be amended newspaper groups, in order to preserve other aspects of to cover catch-up services as well as live broadcasting. the media culture such as local news, which are more fragile than they used to be? We also see the case for decriminalisation of failure to pay the licence. The penalties that are in place are Mr Whittingdale: I very much agree with my right anachronistic and disproportionate, but we think that hon. Friend. We made it clear that we see a greater role decriminalisation may create a risk of much greater for partnership arrangements between the BBC and evasion, so we see the case for a move towards a private sector organisations, and I welcome the fact that household levy, perhaps similar to the German model, the director-general has already indicated that that is a which will be simpler to collect and much harder to direction in which he wants to move. As I suggested avoid. earlier, I also agree with my right hon. Friend about the In the longer term, we think that, as viewing habits need to find ways of supporting local media, which are change, the licence fee becomes harder to sustain and under tremendous pressure, and the BBC has a very justify, and that we should at least consider introducing important role to play in that. an element of subscription to give viewers the choice of whether they wish to subscribe to all the BBC’s services. Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): I was slightly concerned There would still need to be public finance for the core by what the hon. Gentleman said about a household services—radio, news, public service programming—but levy to replace the licence fee. Whatever the difficulties the more premium content would be available as a associated with the licence fee, there are many people matter of choice for the viewer through a subscription who do not have a television licence or, for various model. That would need conditional-access technology reasons, do not want to watch the BBC. If we go down in the home and it certainly cannot be put in place the household levy route, there is a real danger that we immediately, but that is the direction in which we believe will be creating a BBC poll tax. the Government should look as we begin the process of the charter renewal. Mr Whittingdale: The household levy, which would Again, I thank my colleagues for their assistance and be a short-term measure to deal with the problem of contribution. We had some fierce arguments in the evasion, is just a small change to the way of collecting Committee and we did not always obtain agreement on the licence fee. The licence fee is essentially a household every point, but I hope the report will stand as a levy, but there is quite a high evasion rate which could working document to allow the extremely important increase following decriminalisation. The one area where debate on the role of the BBC in our country. That the hon. Gentleman is correct is that there are some debate is starting and will continue, I have no doubt, people who say that they never watch the BBC, never until charter renewal at the end of 2016. listen to BBC radio and never go online to access BBC services, so they do not pay the licence fee. Since 96% of Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Does the hon. the population have BBC television and a lot more have Gentleman agree that we in Britain do broadcasting BBC radio, the number we are talking about is very, and the creative industries more generally extremely very small. There is arguably a case for saying that the well, and that politicians tamper with our successful public service content that the BBC provides is good for mixed economy, with the BBC at its centre, at their society and for the nation and it is right that everybody peril? Will he therefore join me in urging all the political should contribute towards that. parties to make clear in their manifestos their intentions towards the BBC, so that the British public, who value Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con): I the BBC and its public service ethos, can make an congratulate my hon. Friend on his chairmanship of informed choice when they cast their votes on 7 May? our Committee and the publication of the report. I am 501 Future of the BBC26 FEBRUARY 2015 Future of the BBC 502

[Angie Bray] of one in calling for the licence fee to be replaced by subscription. Given the number of channels that are delighted to see that it recognises the inexorable move now available, those of us who believe in freedom of towards subscription television. I believe that people choice must surely believe that people who want to should pay for what they want to watch, rather than for watch the BBC should be able to do so and pay for it, what they do not watch, but may I express my reservations and those who do not want to watch the BBC should about some kind of household levy? I am uneasy about not have to pay for it and should be able to exercise that creating new taxes, which are easier to create than to choice too. Has not the time come for that? If the abolish. Does my hon. Friend concede that there is licence fee represents such wonderful value for money, some danger that that in itself could endanger the as the BBC tells us, surely it has nothing to fear from independence of the BBC and make it more dependent moving to a subscription model, because presumably on politicians? everyone will be queuing round the corner to buy their subscription. Mr Whittingdale: I do not want to overstate the household levy because it is essentially the licence fee by Mr Whittingdale: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, a different name. The reason that it is attached to a who has always acted as my Thatcherite conscience on household is in order to make it easier to collect than the Committee, and I have a lot of sympathy with what the existing rather draconian process, which suffers he has just said. However, I will make two observations. from an evasion rate that could increase with First, we are not yet able to move to a subscription decriminalisation. On the setting of the level, the report model because that would require big changes, such as makes it clear that we see a role for the new public the installation of conditional access in every household. service broadcasting commission in assessing the amount Secondly, I think hat there will always be some content needed to provide the services that the BBC is there to that should be provided and publicly financed, because produce, and I do not think there is a greater danger of there are certain things that might not be viable on a political interference or Government involvement than subscription basis but are nevertheless important for there is already under the process of setting the licence the public good. I therefore think that there will always fee. be an element of public finance, but I can certainly see the attraction of moving in the direction of having a Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab): This is growing proportion of content paid for by subscription. the first time, sadly, that I have voted against a report in my 10 years on the Committee, and that was only because I disagree strongly with the proposed replacement Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): The BBC for the BBC Trust. The preference of the Chair and the is different, and that is why it should be funded differently, majority in the report is for an Ofbeeb, less involved up as I think most people accept. It has always stuck me front, more of an after-the-fact regulator, but does the that there are actually more negatives than positives to Chair agree that another possible model could be a going down the subscription route, compared with the strong ex ante regulator, as proposed by Lord Burns present licence fee arrangements. Did the Committee and reflected in my amendments printed at the back of find that? What problems did it identify with moving to the report? In the words of David Liddiment, a founding a subscription system? member of the trust, the BBC is simply too big and important a beast for light-touch regulation. Mr Whittingdale: We took evidence from many people, and certainly a number of our witnesses were not in Mr Whittingdale: I share the hon. Gentleman’s sadness favour of a subscription model. I think that their argument that he was unable to support us. It was interesting that can best be summed up in the phrase “paying more and three of my colleagues felt unable to support the final getting less”. That is the BBC’s argument, but I am not conclusions in our report, but I think it fair to say that convinced. I agree that the BBC produces outstanding each of them did so for entirely different reasons—it programmes that are extremely popular. Indeed, I tend was not necessarily a meeting of minds. On the point to sympathise with the argument made by my hon. that the hon. Gentleman makes, there is going to be a Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) that the lot of argument about the different models, and we saw vast majority of people would choose to go on paying considerable attraction in the original proposals made in order to receive them. I do not think there would be a by Lord Burns. Most—I suspect all—of us thought it a massive drop, but it is an important principle that, pity that the previous Government did not adopt the where possible, people should be able to choose whether Burns model, rather than create the rather unsatisfactory to pay. BBC Trust. The BBC Trust has failed and we do not want to create a body that is basically another BBC Trust. His idea of the ex ante regulator is in danger of Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): We falling into that trap; personally I think there needs to disagree with the long-term future of the licence fee and be a very clear responsibility for the oversight and whether non-payment of the licence fee should be running of the BBC, and a single unitary board is the decriminalised. Does the Chair of the Committee accept best way of achieving that. that any moves to decriminalise non-payment before 2017 would be contrary to the agreement reached with Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I commend my hon. the BBC in 2010, when it accepted the licence fee freeze Friend as an outstanding Chairman of a Select Committee in return for guaranteed funding? Given that the Committee and a perfect illustration of why the two-term rule for found clear evidence that decriminalisation would lead Select Committee Chairmen should be scrapped to more evasion and therefore less money for the BBC, immediately. He will be aware that I was in a minority surely that contradicts the agreement reached in 2010. 503 Future of the BBC26 FEBRUARY 2015 Future of the BBC 504

Mr Whittingdale: As my hon. Friend knows, the model. I am sure that would work well, because everyone Committee has concerns about the consequences of likes paying taxes. The BBC would not exist in its decriminalisation, which is why we said that other measures current form under his proposal. We visited several would be needed to try to prevent an increase in evasion. European cities and looked at their models. Despite The matter is now subject to consultation. It should what has been said from those on the Government certainly be part of the charter renewal process, and I Benches, the public service broadcasters in Europe that think it probably will be. It will probably be for the next have moved to a hypothecated tax system, such as the Government to decide whether to wait until the end of household levy, actually saw the amount of revenue 2016 before decriminalising. they received increase. Does the Chair of the Committee agree that the model that we have suggested would Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Does the report strike a balance and give some time for a review of what recognise the unique character of the BBC, which has might be better for taking the BBC into the next part of made a priceless contribution to Welsh culture and the 21st century? language and given us the most trusted news service because of its duty of balance, which must greatly Mr Whittingdale: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, irritate the Daily Mail and the Daily Express? Can we who has just illustrated that—I think this is true of all take it that the report is not influenced by the scurrilous Select Committees—although there might be strong accusation made against the hon. Gentleman in a tabloid disagreements within the Committee, they are conducted newspaper when he was first appointed to work for on a very friendly basis. I entirely agree that we were Margaret Thatcher, in which he was described as “Maggie’s impressed by the model that has been adopted by Toy Boy”? Germany. Rather to Germany’s surprise, it has led to an increase in revenue, because the previous system had an Mr Whittingdale: I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman even higher level of evasion than it had realised. is correct; it was a very long time ago and I had rather Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): I worked at the hoped that people had forgotten that particular headline. BBC for nine years. In 2007 I moved from news production I did not mention this in my statement, but of course we to the strategy side and tasked myself with asking recognise the BBC’s important role not only in providing whether the licence fee was sustainable in the digital BBC Wales and Welsh programming, but in supporting age. I think the report gives me the answer—it is not. I S4C, which was a creation of the Conservative Government. found that the biggest roadblock to any kind of reform That is very important. The BBC’s reputation for accurate is the BBC itself, because there is a culture of dependency news reporting is absolutely essential, and no member and entitlement to the licence fee that simply will not go of the Committee would ever want to see that put in away. jeopardy. Mr Whittingdale: I have some sympathy with those Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): Does comments. We found it slightly odd that the BBC officials my hon. Friend recognise that one advantage of who appeared before the Committee said that they had decriminalisation is that it would be welcomed by many an open mind about the governance structure and the magistrates and their staff, because it would stop their scope and scale, but that one thing they were absolutely work loads being clogged up with cases that are often certain about was that the licence fee had to stay. There uncontested and result in non-appearances, which wastes is resistance, and perhaps that is reflected in the comments time and money? On the other hand, in relation to the we have already heard from the BBC. My hon. Friend household levy, does he recognise the concern among draws on his experience of working at the BBC, so I local authorities about one idea that was posited, which thank him for his support for what we have said. is that it might be collected using their resources, perhaps along with the council tax bill? Does he agree that it Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): May I commend would be unfair to force hard-working local authorities my hon. Friend for being an exemplary Select Committee that have kept council tax down to become the vehicle Chair and for his superb report? The report confirms for passing on a levy over which they have no control? the power of BBC news. It states: “Last year 82% of UK adults consumed BBC News… across Mr Whittingdale: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for television, radio and online.” both points. The collection mechanism currently costs Given the power of the BBC’s news coverage, is it not about £100 million. If we moved to a different system, even more important that the trust, or whatever the perhaps by attaching it to council tax, we could probably successor body is, enforces the BBC’s own guidelines on provide an incentive to councils to take on that responsibility fair news coverage, particularly in relation to the BBC’s and still save money. His point about magistrates courts 2005 Wilson report, which found that the BBC needed is entirely right, as there are about 150,000 convictions to do far more to represent accurately the range of every year for failure to have a licence, and that clogs up opinions on this country’s membership of the European the courts. It is one of the many reasons why there is a Union and that the BBC’s news coverage was far too strong case for decriminalisation. pro-European?

Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): I find Mr Whittingdale: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, myself in the invidious position of agreeing with something because he allows me to talk about another very important the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) said, which point made in the report. At the moment, complaints was that the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) about accuracy and impartiality are dealt with by the should be able to stand to be Chair of the Committee BBC Trust, and I think that there is dissatisfaction with again—everything else he said was barmy. He actually the fact that the BBC is judging itself. We have made it argued that we should be looking at a voluntary subscription clear that we think that should change and that, with 505 Future of the BBC26 FEBRUARY 2015 Future of the BBC 506

[Mr Whittingdale] remain one of the most loved and respected organisations in this country and around the world. That is why we the abolition of the trust, responsibility for all content believe that the licence fee will, at least for the short regulation, including complaints about accuracy and term, remain the best means of funding the BBC for the impartiality, should go to Ofcom. It already carried out foreseeable future, and that it would be a mistake to that function for Channel 4, and we see no reason why it undermine it without putting in place a viable alternative. could not also do so for the BBC. May I take the hon. Gentleman up on one point? The report says: Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Following the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering “We challenge the claim that the BBC needs to provide ‘something (Mr Hollobone) about a diversity of views, does my for everyone’.” hon. Friend the Chair of the Committee agree that too I do not want the BBC to be subject to a market failure much of our news coverage has an entirely metropolitan argument only, because surely if everyone is paying for focus? Will he elaborate further on what the report said it, including my constituents, everyone should get something about how we can encourage more resourcing for, and from it. better coverage of, views from rural parts of Britain?

Mr Whittingdale: We did look at the slightly London- Mr Whittingdale: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his centric nature of the BBC, and we welcomed the move extremely kind remarks. I have to say that I am blushing to MediaCityUK in Salford and the provision of resources. throughout most of this session. We also expressed the hope that more would be done The hon. Gentleman’s point goes to the heart of the particularly in relation to the other nations. Northern debate. I think the argument about providing something Ireland made a quite strong case to us that it was for everyone becomes weaker, given the huge increase in poorly treated by the BBC. The question of covering choice available elsewhere through the market. When rural issues—like my hon. Friend, I represent a rural we now have such a large number of channels for constituency—is more challenging. I shall certainly continue specific genres, the BBC should at least say to itself, “Is to put it to the BBC, because sometimes—my hon. there really any need for us still to be in this area when Friend is absolutely correct—these areas do not get the there is already so much provision?” That does not prominence they deserve. necessarily mean that it should retreat into a ghetto—some have expressed that fear—but that it should take account Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): At the risk of ruining of the huge proliferation of choice and concentrate its the hon. Gentleman’s reputation as Thatcher’s gimp—I resources on the areas that have been poorly served by mean toy boy—may I enormously commend him for the market. the work he has done as Committee Chair for the past 10 years? Everyone in the House, whether they have Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): It is disagreed with him or agreed with him, is grateful to perhaps inevitable, on a subject such as this, that my him for that work. He has been an exemplary Chair of initial exhortation to brevity has been completely and the Committee. I put that on record on behalf of my utterly ignored. I have allowed the statement to run over hon. Friends. time because I recognised that the feeling of the House The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that was that there were many subjects to be dealt with—and changes in technology mean that there are significant the Chairman of the Committee has dealt with them new challenges for the BBC, which does of course more than adequately. 507 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 508

I am delighted that almost the first legislative step by Backbench Business the coalition Government was to put in place a scheme to compensate the individuals who had suffered a relative Equitable Life loss. We had argued in this Chamber for justice for those policyholders. There are various types of policyholders who have received different types of compensation. The 12.53 pm first—

Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): I beg to move, Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) rose— That this House congratulates the Government on providing a scheme to compensate victims of the Equitable Life scandal; Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con) rose— welcomes the Government’s acceptance of the Parliamentary Ombudsman’s findings in full; notes that the Parliamentary Ombudsman recommended that policyholders should be put Bob Blackman: May I specify the types first, and then back in the position they would have been in had maladministration I will take interventions? not occurred; further notes that most victims have only received The first set of policyholders were those who took partial compensation compared to the confirmed losses; and calls out their policies and had an annuity in place pre-1 on the Government to make a commitment to provide full compensation during the lifetime of the next Parliament as the September 1992. They were specifically excluded from economy and public finances continue to recover. the compensation scheme. I will come on to what happened to them subsequently.Secondly, there were the with-profits In the run-up to the 2010 general election, the annuitants, who were given compensation of 100% of Conservative party discouraged candidates from signing their relative loss—quite right too. Then there were the any pledges, with one or two notable exceptions, the normal policyholders, who received an element of most notable being that of seeking justice for Equitable compensation. Unfortunately, when the legislation was Life policyholders. Having done some research, I was set up, the public finances were in a scandalous state, very proud and pleased to sign that pledge. After I was and there was little money to allocate. I am delighted successfully elected, I was immediately elevated to become that the Treasury nevertheless chose to allocate sufficient co-chairman of the all-party group on Equitable Life funding to provide some £1.5 billion in compensation. policyholders. I am pleased to be able to report that we There was £620 million to compensate the 37,000 with- now have more than 200 members. That demonstrates profits annuitants, but, with the contingency fund of what an important issue this is for people in this House £100 million that was put in place, plus the costs of and beyond. administering the scheme, that left only some £775 million It is important that we look at what is different about to be spread between the 945,000 other policyholders, what Equitable Life policyholders compared with those who therefore got only 22.4% of the compensation that in other such schemes. With the advent of private they were due. As a result, those individuals have not pensions and the encouragement of individuals to save been put back into the position that they should have for their future retirement, Equitable Life developed an been in had they not suffered the relative loss. almost Ponzi-like scheme whereby its representatives went out and sold policies for which they promised Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend is making an extremely bonuses and pensions that were beyond belief, and good and most important speech. I agree that the people were convinced to sign up for them. When that coalition Government deserve considerable credit for was reported to the regulator and the Treasury, they having tackled this early on in their term in office. Since, took no action whatsoever. This was all very well while sadly, I cannot be here for the Minister’s speech, will my money was coming into the pot, but eventually the hon. Friend pursue the issue of the speed at which these amount coming in would be less than that going out, payments are being made? Many of my constituents and therefore the scheme would collapse. The scheme have had to wait a considerable length of time. I would therefore became too big to fail, because had it failed, be most grateful for his and the Minister’s reassurance the Government of the day, of whichever party, would that everything is being done to make these payments as have had to pick up the full cost of compensation to the rapidly as possible. policyholders. The whole scandal was covered up during the scheme’s Bob Blackman: It is fair to say that the all-party entire period of 20 years. A position was reached of a group and EMAG have been on the backs of the cosy relationship between the company, the regulator Treasury Ministers responsible. The current Minister is and the Government whereby they would not unveil the in her place. Her predecessor, my right hon. Friend the situation. The Equitable Members Action Group had Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), was a very helpful to drag the Government through the courts. Eventually, in making sure that the scheme was speeded up and that in 2004, we had the publication of the Penrose report, people got the compensation due to them. Most which made recommendations about the position of importantly, he decided that he would not close the Equitable Life. That was not good enough, because it scheme, which could have been done under the legislation, did not do anything to compensate the people who had until we had traced every one of the policyholders due suffered. Then the parliamentary ombudsman made for compensation. clear recommendations that the policyholders needed to be moved from the position where they had suffered Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): May I commend my a relative loss back to the position they would have been hon. Friend on all his work on this issue over several in had maladministration not occurred. That was very years? Is not the crucial point in the motion that, with important. Equally, the ombudsman accepted that it the public finances improving, the compensation already would be appropriate to consider the potential impact paid should not be considered the last word on the on the public purse of any payment of compensation. matter, and there should be more room to give proper 509 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 510

[Philip Davies] parties about what they will do if elected to government on 7 May. Although it would be welcome if the Chancellor compensation to people who need it? As I am sitting stood up at the Dispatch Box and agreed a full next to my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton compensation package, the key issue is that if he cannot Coldfield (Mr Mitchell), may I ask whether my hon. do so in this Budget, Members and people outside the Friend understands the frustration of many people that House will want to know what the political parties the Government seem to have plenty of money to spray would do to compensate those who have suffered. on things such as overseas aid and aid to India, which might be better spent on such compensation to people Ian Paisley: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on in this country? getting this matter on to the Floor of the House. He is in danger of being canonised by the many thousands of Bob Blackman: The clear issue is that when the assessment people in Northern Ireland who are watching this debate was made of the amount of compensation due to closely because of how unfairly they have been affected. policyholders—this point is crucial—it was decided that I hope that those on the Treasury Bench are listening to £4.3 billion should be paid in compensation. Clearly, the points that Members have raised. £1.5 billion has been allocated, although it has not all been spent, as my right hon. Friend the Member for There have been announcements this week about the Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) mentioned, meaning bonuses to be paid to bankers in banks controlled by that a compensation bill of £2.8 billion is still outstanding. the public purse, and some bankers have taken the The Prime Minister quite rightly said at the Conservative personal decision to refuse bonuses if they so wish. At party conference that as the economy recovers and we least they have the choice. The people who have suffered fix this country’s problems, tax rates will come down, under Equitable Life have not got a choice. I hope that but I would say that there is a still a bill to be paid to the Treasury Ministers are listening, and recognise that if people who saved for their retirement. Therefore, as the they want the future support of Opposition Members, economy recovers and the public purse allows, we should they should address this issue before the end of this compensate policyholders who have suffered a relative term. loss, as we committed to do at the last general election. Bob Blackman: I will call the hon. Gentleman my Sir Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): May I honourable Friend because he has been stalwart in congratulate my hon. Friend and the co-sponsors of the defending the rights of the people of Northern Ireland motion on bringing this matter before the House? I am who have suffered in this scheme. a past and, I think, a continuing policyholder of Equitable Life; given yesterday’s debate, I suppose that is a matter The key point is that, according to the published of deep interest to the world. I am concerned that the figures, the Treasury had a surplus of £8.8 billion in amount of compensation to be paid to individual January, which was remarkable given that we were policyholders is relatively small. Does my hon. Gentleman expecting £6.5 billion. Some proportion of the additional agree that there is now a duty on the Government to get £2 billion surplus could be put towards compensation rid of these fairly small claims as quickly as possible? for policyholders who have suffered. Many of my affected constituents are in their 70s and 80s, and they need satisfaction as soon as possible. Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): My hon. Friend rightly mentions the surplus in January. We are Bob Blackman: I completely concur with my hon. coming to the end of the financial year, and many and learned Friend. Departments may have an underspend in their allocated I should say that the Chancellor made a key and very budgets. Would it not be a good idea to divert some of brave move to compensate the pre-1992 trapped annuitants that underspend to the victims of Equitable Life? with a one-off payment of £5,000, which was doubled to £10,000 for those on pension credit. That was very Bob Blackman: I thank my hon. Friend for his suggestion. welcome, but we are talking about the most vulnerable The Chancellor will be listening to such rumours, and people trapped by the scheme, and my view is that they will no doubt want to hoover up that money to dispense should receive total compensation. The estimate for for appropriate good causes, of which this is clearly one. total compensation for that element alone is £115 million, which I consider a drop in the ocean compared with the Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD): Does the hon. total pension bill due. Gentleman agree that people have been pushed into an extremely difficult position, and that some of them are Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): extremely close to poverty as a result of the amount May I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing the they have lost? In many cases, they are not at an age at motion before the House? As we are rapidly approaching which there is anything they can do to replace the funds that time in the political cycle called the Budget, I they have lost. They face a very uncertain future, as they suggest that this is a golden opportunity for our Treasury have for many years, but there is absolutely nothing team and the coalition Government to show that they they can do to make a difference. have a big heart and meet the demands we are all making on behalf of our oldest and most vulnerable constituents? Bob Blackman: I do not normally agree with the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), Bob Blackman: I am sure that my hon. Friend the but he has said: Economic Secretary is listening, but she will clearly not “They were not like the people who put their savings into announce the Budget measures today. After this debate, outfits offering dubious and extraordinary returns, such as those however, I will seek a clear commitment from the political who decided to chance their savings with the Icelandic banks. 511 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 512

The Equitable policyholders are in their current position through Administration Committee in the last Parliament. Does absolutely no fault of their own.”—[Official Report, 14 September he have a formula, which is what we were looking for, 2010; Vol. 515, c. 781.] that suggests who is responsible for losses made? Can He went on to say that those at fault were Equitable we have a scheme that is consistent for all pension Life, the Government and the regulator. schemes that get in trouble, such as the Allied Steel and Wire scheme, which has still not been resolved? If Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): he has such a formula, perhaps it could be agreed to Like other hon. Members, I congratulate the hon. between the parties now, so that what is national Gentleman on securing this debate and on keeping this responsibility, personal responsibility and company very important issue live. He must be aware that there responsibility is accepted and we have a resilient formula will never be a right time in the Government finances to that can be used for Equitable Life, Allied Steel and put this matter right. The Treasury may have made a Wire and all those that go broke in the future. small budgetary surplus over and above what it expected in January, but the fact is that the Treasury debt is still Bob Blackman: I note the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. huge. It is as simple as that. The key point is that the Equitable Life policy holders The only way round this problem is to say that there have been through the courts and through the parliamentary will never be a financially right time, only a morally ombudsman, and the matter has been found in their right time. That time is now, given the long lag, which favour. Maladministration clearly took place and a key has been characterised by denials and evasions. They decision was taken to put those policy holders back into also occurred in the contaminated blood scandal, which the position that they would have been in had that was perhaps even worse. The only way to deal with this maladministration not taken place. Clearly, other pension is to pay the £115 million that the hon. Gentleman schemes are in trouble. There are a lot of pension rightly mentioned, and to have a clear statement about schemes in trouble because the previous Prime Minister, future year-by-year reductions in the outstanding when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, raided private £2.8 billion, which the Equitable Life policyholders pension funds and thought that that was a golden have wholly earned and wholly deserve. They should be opportunity. We must take that into account. That is awarded the whole amount, because that is the only way not the case with Equitable Life policy holders, which in which this dreadful ill can be rectified. makes this a different matter. We have to be careful about broadening out this subject to other pension Bob Blackman: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that schemes. intervention. It is a great shame that my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) was Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): Does the almost the sole individual on the Labour Benches during hon. Gentleman agree that expectations have been raised the Labour Government who promoted a compensation and promises have been made? All that these people did scheme. I commend him for his efforts to get his was to invest in what they thought was a trusted company. Government to introduce one. I wish that other Labour They have done nothing wrong and they cannot for the Members had promoted such schemes. life of them understand why it is taking so long to settle the matter. Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Bob Blackman: These people have battled and struggled through the courts and through a long process to get Bob Blackman: I will make a couple of points and justice. There are many of us, certainly on the Government then give way for the final time. Benches but also on the Opposition Benches, who say We are clear about what we want the Government to that all these people did was invest for the future and do. Irrespective of which political party wins the general trust what they were told. They took a risk to a certain election, we want full compensation for the pre-1992 extent that the market would be appropriate, but they trapped annuitants. As I have said, it would cost £115 million did not expect the level of maladministration that took to compensate those individuals. Those are the most place or the way in which they would be treated. vulnerable individuals because they retired a long time ago and many of them are very frail. It would cost a Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con): My relatively small amount of public money to give them hon. Friend has made an eloquent case. He referred to proper compensation. I am afraid that the longer we the great disappointment that is felt by so many people delay, the fewer of them will be around, because they who believe that they deserve compensation for what are dying off almost daily. happened. He has not mentioned this, but does he agree Secondly, as the hon. Member for Coventry North that there is also considerable anger among people who West (Mr Robinson) said, we should commit to a feel let down? Is it not somewhat ironic and very graduated full compensation package so that the policy uncomfortable that the Government who have started holders are compensated as the public finances continue to do something about it are taking so much of the to recover. Individuals who took out pension policies blame? some time ago are not necessarily reaching retirement age. Topping up their pensions over four or five years Bob Blackman: I have commended the Government would therefore enable them to retire in the way that for the action that they have taken to set up the scheme. they expected. At the time of the legislation, we tabled a cross-party amendment to ensure that the trapped pre-1992 annuitants Paul Flynn: May I state that I have a close financial would be compensated, but the Government resisted it. interest in this matter? I remind the hon. Gentleman I am delighted that the Government saw sense after the that it was discussed at great length by the Public lobbying that took place and provided a degree of 513 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 514

[Bob Blackman] 1.19 pm compensation. The Government should be commended Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab): It is a for ensuring that there is a compensation scheme. However, privilege to have secured the debate with my co-chair of we have an independent assessment of the total amount the all-party group for justice for Equitable Life of compensation that is due—it was not done by EMAG policyholders, the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob or by the Government, but is independent—and £2.8 billion Blackman). is still due. I am sad that after so many years of debating this issue, we are once again back in the Chamber talking Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (Ind): The about the continuing losses suffered by hundreds of hon. Gentleman is being extraordinarily generous in thousands of Equitable Life policyholders. As has been giving way. There is a unanimous feeling in the House said, they invested in the world’s oldest life assurance that justice needs to be done for these people. We know company in the belief that they would be able to have a how much is outstanding and there is a big difference comfortable old age. Instead, after a lifetime of saving, between what people are due under the existing many of them find themselves destitute, and they are compensation scheme and what they are actually due. certainly much poorer through no fault of their own. Surely what we need is not a five-year plan to pay the How have we arrived at that point, 15 years after money back, but a one-off payment that is made as Equitable Life closed its doors to new investors and five soon as possible. Many of these people will die before years after the current Government promised to ensure they get their just reward. that losses incurred by Equitable policyholders would be compensated? If Members permit me, I will go back Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. over some of the history of this sorry tale, to give the I appreciate that the hon. Member for Harrow East House and the public some answers. (Bob Blackman) has taken a lot of interventions and I have allowed him a lot more time than is normally the My first involvement in the Equitable saga was to case in this sort of debate. I also appreciate that there speak in an Adjournment debate that I secured in will be further interventions and I am not suggesting Westminster Hall on 24 June 2009. In that debate, I that he concludes his speech immediately. However, I spoke about the serious issues facing all our constituents make a plea for very short interventions, because people since the crash of Equitable Life, following its inability who say that they are not going to make a speech, but to meet its obligations and the promises that it had that they would like to intervene, take up the time of made to investors over the decades. people who sit here all afternoon with patience and politeness, waiting to make a speech. I will not be Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ tolerant of long interventions, but I am tolerant of the Co-op): I may have been present at that debate. I hon. Gentleman, who is being very generous in taking congratulate my hon. Friend on his role in leading the so many interventions. campaign with other hon. Members. Like me and other Members, he will have had the experience of trying to Bob Blackman: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. update constituents on the issue but getting back a reply I was going to draw my remarks to a close after that last saying, “Unfortunately, my father”—or wife, or husband— intervention. “has now died”. That illustrates how important it is to The issue before us is one of justice and fairness. take action now. Although I would like to hear pledges Everyone believes in ensuring that the policyholders for after the election, as the hon. Member for Harrow receive proper compensation for the injustice that they East (Bob Blackman) said, we also need action now, have suffered. These are people who did the right thing: ideally in the Budget. After an election, it takes time for they invested for their future. They expected a reasonable things to happen. People need payment and good return on their investment and to be protected by the compensation— regulator and the Treasury. The fact is that they were badly let down. Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. This is the opportunity for all three major political We must have short interventions. Long interventions parties and the smaller parties to give a commitment on are simply not fair, because everybody must have a what they would do if they were elected as the Government chance to speak on behalf of their constituents. Members on 7 May for the 945,000 people out there who are still must be polite to each other and make short interventions. waiting for 77.6% of the compensation that they are due and for the trapped pre-1992 annuitants who deserve Fabian Hamilton: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. full compensation, which at £115 million would be a Of course, I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend drop in the ocean, and who are the frailest in our the Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark society. If parties give them that commitment, they will Lazarowicz). give them their votes; if parties deny them that commitment, they may withdraw their votes. Equitable Life was established in 1762 and started selling pensions as early as 1913, but it was not until Several hon. Members rose— 1957 that the society started selling its now infamous guaranteed annuity rate pensions, which promised a Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Given clear and unambiguous return on capital invested. That the interest in this debate and the short time available, I carried on until 1988, when it realised that its rates were shall impose a time limit on Back-Bench speeches of so good and so far ahead of the rest of the market eight minutes. That is quite a long time limit and I make that they were totally unsustainable. In December 2000, a further plea for short interventions, if there must Equitable Life was forced to close to new business, but be any. by that time it had more than 1.5 million members. 515 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 516

In July 2008, as the hon. Member for Harrow East Fabian Hamilton: I thank my hon. Friend. There are mentioned, the parliamentary ombudsman published hundreds of thousands of people like his constituent. her first report on Equitable, entitled “Equitable Life: a We all have constituents who have suffered losses, for decade of regulatory failure”. On 11 December that whom 22.4p in the pound is a start but, as many year, the Public Administration Committee produced a Members have said, simply not enough. I will say report entitled “Justice delayed”, in which it stated: something about that in my remaining time. “Over the last eight years many of those members and their families have suffered great anxiety as policy values were cut and Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): The hon. pension payments reduced. Many are no longer alive, and will be Gentleman, like my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow unable to benefit personally from any compensation. We share East (Bob Blackman), is making a powerful speech. both a deep sense of frustration and continuing outrage that the This is an issue of basic justice, but given the parliamentary situation has remained unresolved for so long.” cycle, it is inevitably also a political issue. I support my That is already seven years ago. hon. Friend’s suggestion that all political parties put on record before the election their position on compensation, On 5 May 2009, Ann Abraham, the parliamentary so that those caught up in the scandal know what ombudsman, published a second report, “Injustice impact their votes might have on this sorry saga. unremedied: the Government’s response on Equitable Life”, in which she stated: Fabian Hamilton: I thank the hon. Gentleman, and I “I was deeply disappointed that the Government chose to agree. With the election coming up, we need to put a reject many of the findings that I had made, when I was acting clear choice to the electors and to the hundreds of independently on behalf of Parliament and after a detailed and thousands of pensioners and policyholders who have exhaustive investigation.” suffered through the collapse of Equitable to ensure There was certainly no shortage of reports, just a shortage that they know where we all stand as political parties of justice for those who, through no fault of their own, and as individuals. I am not the only Labour Member had suffered huge losses in their life savings, which they who has stood up for the rights of Equitable members—I had accrued over many years of hard work. believe that more than 40 Labour Members are members of EMAG, and many more believe that justice should How could Equitable Life have maintained a rate of be served. return and a guaranteed annuity rate way beyond any competitor in the market? Ann Abraham addressed The Public Administration Committee’s report of that question in her initial report of 2008, which took 2008 went on to state: four years to complete. Her answers went to the heart of “Where regulators have been shown to fail so thoroughly, the anger expressed by investors through the Equitable compensation should be a duty, not a matter of choice.” Members Action Group. At the core of the problem Unfortunately, despite pleas from many Labour Members, was the fact that Equitable Life simply could not meet the then Labour Government failed to introduce any ex the obligations that it had made, because it had no gratia compensation scheme and refused to follow the provision for guarantees against low interest rates on parliamentary ombudsman’s recommendations. Reacting policies issued before 1988. It therefore declared bonuses to the Government’s lack of response to the ombudsman’s out of all proportion to its profits and assets. report, the then Conservative Opposition stated their determination to introduce the Equitable Life (Payments) Following a ruling of the House of Lords in 2000, the Bill early in the new Parliament following the 2010 society stopped taking new business in December of general election. That Bill offered 100% compensation that year, which effectively spelled the end for Equitable. to all with-profits annuitants who had taken out their More than 1 million policyholders then found that they annuities after 1 September 1992, and 22.4% compensation faced cuts in their bonuses and annuities, which caused to every other policyholder. Many right hon. and hon. a huge loss of the income on which many small investors Members of all parties felt that that was inherently had totally depended. After all, the average investment unfair, as that date was somewhat arbitrary and, as has for the 500,000 individual policyholders was just £45,000, been mentioned, the relatively small group of with-profits which, according to EMAG, would have yielded no annuitants from before that date was the oldest and more than £300 a month even at its height. most vulnerable group. Many of them would not even In its December 2008 report, one of the Public live to enjoy the compensation or the £5,000 ex gratia Administration Committee’s many recommendations payment to that group that the Chancellor announced stated: recently. “We…strongly support the Ombudsman’s recommendation I tabled an amendment to the Bill, which read: for the creation of a compensation scheme to pay for the loss that “Payments authorised by the Treasury under this section to has been suffered by Equitable Life’s members as a result of with-profits annuitants shall be made without regard to the date maladministration.” on which such policies were taken out.” The debate on the amendment took just over two hours Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): I am grateful and was lost, by 76 votes in favour to 301 against, but it to my hon. Friend, the co-chair of the all-party group, set out strongly the case for the pre-1992 with-profits for his wonderful speech and for all the work that he has annuitants. done. One of the people who lost out was Leonard The Bill received Royal Assent early in 2011, and the Stuckey, in my constituency, who has run the EMAG compensation scheme was set in motion. At first it was group in Edinburgh South. Does my hon. Friend think slow, but it began to pick up over subsequent years. As that 22.4p in the pound is the right level of compensation, of 31 January this year, more than £1 billion has given what the parliamentary report that he has just been paid to 896,367 policyholders, although more than mentioned said? 142,000 policyholders still have to be paid but cannot 517 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 518

[Fabian Hamilton] are responsible for that failure—ultimately in this case, the Government of the day—can evade liability for that be traced. Some 37,764 post-1992 with-profits annuitants, failure? This is, of course, a matter of justice, as my hon. or their estates, have been issued payments by the Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) scheme, and those initial and subsequent payments said, but it is also a matter of good governance and total £271.4 million. accountability, because when institutions for which the In conclusion, I must give credit to this Government Government are responsible fail, the Government must for having introduced a compensation scheme from accept responsibility. which the majority of Equitable policyholders have The Government were, of course, obliged to step in received 22.4p in the pound—a lot better than nothing. when bailing out other financial institutions, because a However, when we examine the compensation paid to risk to the economy would have arisen had they not Icesave investors, for example, following the collapse of done so. Nevertheless, for individual policyholders of the Icelandic banks in 2008, for which every investor Equitable Life there seems to be an unfairness, because received up to £50,000 of their losses in full, the Equitable while those who may have been depositors or shareholders scheme looks rather less generous. in banks will receive compensation and redress, those Equitable policyholders have been patient. They who have saved in good faith but relied on the effective understand that the recession meant austerity and that regulation of the vehicle in which they were investing there was a huge shortage of money available for many are not receiving full compensation, and that cannot parts of government and the state. What they cannot be right. understand, however, is why, as the economy grows, My second point is about reasonable expectation. It they are denied any further payments against their very is not as if these policyholders have been told that they real losses. I have heard, as have all Members of the do not have a case; it is not as if we are coming to the House, heartbreaking stories from individuals, some House to plead, once again, on the issue of principle. of whom have lost everything including their homes, The issue of principle has been addressed and settled. all because of Equitable’s failure and the company’s The ombudsman has said that there was maladministration, “catastrophic” regulation. and the Government have accepted the issue of principle As I have said in previous speeches on Equitable Life because of the level of compensation they provided. in the House, this is fundamentally a moral issue. When We have the ombudsman’s report and the Conservative the Government are supposed to protect the life savings party manifesto that pledged compensation. I recognise of individuals who have been encouraged to provide for that this Government set up the compensation scheme, themselves—as was the case with Equitable—they have and that they had to address the fiscal environment a duty to ensure that losses incurred, such as those at responsibly. Nevertheless, it remains a continuing source Equitable, are adequately compensated. In my view that of concern that such a small proportion of many of my obligation should come above pet projects such as High constituents’ losses have been addressed, and that they Speed 2 and Trident renewal, or else the whole fabric of have complete uncertainty about whether there will be trust in the state will be damaged—I believe that that is further compensation in future. Nobody turns around exactly that has happened in this case. We have a moral to my constituents and says, “We will not do this any duty and should not be afraid to carry it out. more”, and they are left with the uncomfortable sense that it would be very convenient if they simply went 1.31 pm away or, in many cases, actually died. Thousands of policyholders have died in the wait for compensation, Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): I and we have no finality to the situation. Given the congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow reasonable expectation that was set up, the manifesto East (Bob Blackman) on securing this debate. I was promise and the ombudsman’s report, it is entirely pleased to support his application for a debate in Back- reasonable to ask on behalf of our constituents whether Bench time because of the importance of this issue to a we can have a timetabled scheme to say, “We will bring large number of my constituents who, as Equitable Life closure to this matter.” policyholders, have suffered loss. They remain gravely concerned that, although in many cases they have been I am happy to stand up and say that that closure may partially compensated for their loss, they have not been not be for 100% of the losses accrued. Many of my fully compensated or compensated at a level that they constituents might disagree with that, but we must have believe to be just. It is important to restate, as many regard to the fact that there is a continuing deficit and hon. Members have done, that these are responsible will be for the next three years, and that there are other individuals who invested and saved in good faith and spending priorities. Nevertheless, it seems that compensation with a reasonable expectation of a fair return. They of only 22%, and the ongoing uncertainty of whether have not in any sense behaved irresponsibly, and did not there will be any further compensation at all, is deeply seek to make investment decisions that had an expectation unsatisfactory. of an element of risk. They found themselves suffering significant losses, many of which have resulted in hardship, Mrs Gillan: Does my right hon. Friend agree with my through no fault of their own. constituent who e-mailed me and stated: “If we were to receive this money it would not be lost. I am I wish to raise two points in addition to the excellent sure it would soon find its way into the economy at large and points raised by my hon. Friend and others. First is the would not languish in savings accounts because we’ve done the issue of accountability. Regulatory failure was identified saving already!”? in the ombudsman’s report, and that single fact informs us all in this debate that there was maladministration. Nick Herbert: My right hon. Friend’s constituent How is that regulatory failure to be dealt with, and how makes a good point and it is true that the compensation will future regulatory failure be prevented, if those who that the banks have had to pay, for example in relation 519 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 520 to mis-selling payment protection insurance, has had a As the action group points out, policyholders have beneficial effect on the economy by putting cash into received compensation amounting to only 22.4% of people’s hands, but that is by the bye. As many have their losses, and it argues that people’s pension savings, said, this is a matter of justice, but also of accountability carefully accumulated over decades, should be safeguarded and good governance. We cannot allow a situation in exactly the same way as funds deposited in banks and where the regulation of an institution such as Equitable building societies, but that is a dangerous argument to Life fails and no one will step up to the plate and say, make, because funds protected in banks and building “We accept responsibility for that failure” even though societies are subject to a maximum, so it is not complete thousands of people have been hurt by it. That is the protection. long and short of the story. The Government have a duty. They had to balance the interests of taxpayers Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): I fairly, but there is a strong feeling in the House, and am sure that like all right hon. and hon. Members, the among many of my constituents, that more must be hon. Gentleman and I have constituents affected by this done. matter, and what they fear most is uncertainty. Mr and Mrs O’Meagher, who are 80 and live in my constituency, have to travel to London so that Mrs O’Meagher can 1.38 pm give music lessons in order to top up their income, but Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): It is a somewhat they cannot continue to do that, and with their losses novel, perhaps unique, experience for me to be speaking from Equitable Life, they see their life in terrible trouble. in support of a motion that begins: “this House congratulates the Government”. Mr Weir: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point, and I agree that this matter needs to be tackled—I However, credit where credit is due. Many of us raised shall say something about that shortly. In a follow- this issue consistently with the previous Administration, up report, the ombudsman was unable to conclude who refused point blank to take any responsibility for that the Government’s proposals complied with her the regulatory failures that led to the disastrous situation recommendations for the establishment of a compensation at Equitable Life, despite the fact that their own report scheme. Even the ombudsman says that more needs to by Lord Penrose pointed clearly to the regulatory failures be done. in this case. This Government have grasped the nettle and introduced a scheme that has given some relief to Like most Members, I had many Equitable Life many thousands of policyholders who have lost out. policyholders in my constituency, and I have had a considerable postbag on the issue from the outset. Many Interestingly, in the last update on the scheme issued of the policyholders were elderly, and sadly some have by the Treasury, it appears that some 160,000 policyholders died as the saga has ground on, but there remains a have not come forward to submit a claim. A large great sense of injustice among those still living. Equitable number of people have still not taken advantage of the Life was touted as a long-established steady company help that is offered at the moment, and we should —when I was a practising solicitor, it was seen as a continue to urge them to come forward. It took the gold-standard company. No one realised the problem report from the ombudsman to get the ball rolling on lurking below the surface. compensation, and I suppose the reason we are still debating it today was her conclusion that Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Many “the diversion of scarce public resources is a relevant consideration solicitors told their clients that they themselves had their which should be taken into account and weighed in the balance pensions with Equitable Life and recommended it. along with other relevant considerations”. Despite what the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Mr Weir: I never had my pension with Equitable Life, Blackman) said, there is a huge difference between the but the right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. amount sought by the action group, which is about Many solicitors, accountants and other professionals £5 billion, and the amount originally proposed by the invested in Equitable Life. It was popular with financial Government, which was as little as £500 million. EMAG’s advisers because it was seen as a safe, steady company, website quotes two vastly different figures, and the but it turned out not to be, and people lost a lot of Government came down in the middle with a figure of money because it was not properly regulated. £1.5 billion. I agree with much of what the hon. Gentleman said—we need to deal with the issue of compensation—but The Government need to consider future pension first we have to negotiate the sums involved. provision. Increasingly, we are being urged to invest in pension provision to augment our state pensions, and The action group has consistently campaigned for with the recent revelations that less than half of new full compensation. Its members thought it unfair that pensioners will receive the whole new single-tier pension “affordability constraints”, as the Government put it, when it is introduced next year, that is more relevant meant they did not get the full compensation to which than ever. The new rules granting much greater freedom they were entitled and that they only received 25% of for pension holders to access their pensions savings will the full amount. Its paper calls it a double injustice that greatly alter the pensions landscape and the attitude of Equitable pensioners should not only bear the cost of savers towards pensions, but it might also make it more the Treasury’s inability to regulate Equitable Life in the difficult for company investment strategies. It is imperative 1990s, but be denied the full compensation owed to in this new environment that there is confidence in the them because the Government’s inability to regulate the stability and worth of pensions investment—it is not banking sector the same as putting money in a bank or building “blew a hole in Government finances”. society, where the rate of interest is known, pitiful There is some justice to that. though it might be at present; it depends on fluctuations 521 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 522

[Mr Weir] issues and the difficulties of tracing people, on the whole I think the Government have done a good job in the market and the type of investment made. Admittedly, delivering those funds. there is no guaranteed return—there is always an element Nevertheless, 22.4% will have been a disappointment of risk—but for most people it is a major investment, so to many constituents. I do not want to get into an the risk should be as small as possible. argument about the appropriate level of compensation, but like many Members I think the Government should Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I agree with contribute more as the public finances improve. the hon. Gentleman. The public need confidence that the pension industry will be regulated properly, and in Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): this case it obviously was not—the Government Actuary’s The last Government’s lack of action was described as Department failed. Now that the public finances are in “shabby”, and it would be a tragedy if this Government, a better state, I think the Government should pay up in having taken that brave decision in 2010, were to be full, as recommended by the ombudsman, otherwise regarded as shabby too, but unfortunately 22% sounds people will not have confidence in the future. a bit shabby.

Mr Weir: I agree with most of what the hon. Gentleman Mr Syms: I agree. For many of us, it is a start rather says. We have to grasp the nettle because it is becoming than the finish. ever more important that we have confidence in our The constituents I see in my surgeries have a quiet pension provision. If we fail to give people that assurance, dignity about them but still feel aggrieved and think we risk them not having the confidence to invest in that the Government ought to move some more. My pensions, or taking their money out at the earliest main plea today is for the Treasury to consider the issue. opportunity, leading to even greater pressure on the The public finances are still a challenge and will be a public finances. Equitable Life remains a running sore, challenge for the next Government, but I think that as and so long as that is the case it risks damaging the things improve, the Government should be able to whole industry and the attempts to encourage future provide further funds. pension savings. It was not simply a bad investment; the regulator failed to do its job, and that led to substantial losses. Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): Will the hon. Gentleman give way? We accepted that people were due compensation on the basis that the amount offered would be determined Mr Syms: I will in a moment; I just want to make a by the state of the public finances, but, as I said, there few more points. remains a gulf between the various amounts suggested. Before we come to any agreement, therefore, we must be The reality is that most of those affected do not have clear about the amount involved, but it would be unwise the ability to earn money or to improve their particular to make it a party political issue just because there is an circumstances. They made decisions predicated on certain election around the corner—voters base their decision estimates, and they have been badly let down. I am glad on many issues, including, in some cases, Equitable that the coalition Government have moved as they have. Life—but if the public finances are improving, of which We have a good story to tell so far, but it could be an some of us are less convinced than others, it is right that even better story if they listened to the concerns of Equitable Life policyholders be considered anew. I urge Members on both sides of the House and made further the Minister to consider greater compensation. movement. The fact remains that £1.5 billion has been allocated, and we have heard that £1 billion has already been paid 1.46 pm out to 896,367 policyholders, but that 140,000 have Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): I congratulate hon. been untraced. On the assumption that many will inevitably Members on bringing this debate to the Floor of the remain untraced, it must leave a balance in the fund of House. Since my entry to the House in 1997, this matter £500 million. At what point, then, does the scheme has come up repeatedly. I look forward to the day when conclude that it will not trace some of these people? At we no longer have to debate Equitable Life. In 2004, I that point, will some of the £500 million be available was one of the more than 100 Members who wrote to for further distribution to the 896,000 or so who have the parliamentary ombudsman urging her take up the already received some money? We can argue about case, following earlier failed attempts. We finally got a whether there should be more money, but if £1.5 billion report and we finally got action, but unfortunately it has been allocated and not all of it has been sent out, took a long time, and in the meantime many constituents that provides quite a strong argument for making a in their 70s and 80s have seen their prospects of a decision at some point to allocate more of the money comfortable retirement disappear with this sorry saga. available in the Treasury to help these people. I hope In 2010, I argued that we needed to get a compensation that the Government will address that issue first. scheme up and running to get money out as quickly as The second issue is whether we could top up the possible and that the question of how much was an £1.5 billion in due course to provide a much more argument for another day. I thought that if we got hung satisfactory conclusion. Like many colleagues, I have up on an argument about how many billions, it would retired constituents in my constituency—Poole—who probably delay the whole process again. As it was, the are prudent and sensible people. Most of them made Government acted quickly in 2010: the scheme started provision for their retirement in the best way they operating in 2011, £1.5 billion having been allocated, could. They did not go on gambling cruises and they and by the end of January 896,367 people had received did not go to Las Vegas: because they were responsible, some compensation. Given the complexity of these they decided to invest. This provides a very strong case 523 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 524 for a Government who believe in the ethics of people their 30s who were absolutely turned off providing for acting responsibly to stand by those people when they their own retirement. I suspect that the damage to have been let down. confidence in the financial markets at that time was much more widespread, going beyond just the immediate impact on the policyholders who lost out. 1.52 pm Thirdly, we need to be honest and open today about Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I, too, where we are going in the future as regards compensation congratulate the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob for these policyholders who have suffered so disgracefully. Blackman) who opened the debate on securing time for All Members have constituents who feel that they were it this afternoon. As we have heard, this is an issue of very much misled by what they understood to have been justice and accountability; and it is also one of confidence a commitment to follow through the parliamentary in the financial markets, confidence in the regulatory ombudsman’s recommendation that they should be placed system and confidence that political promises and in the position that they would have been in had Equitable commitments will be honoured. It is particularly on the Life not failed. They feel that what they have received in issue of confidence that I wish to focus. compensation falls a long way short of that. I have to Let me start by declaring a personal interest. For a say that this mismatch between the promises these few months in 2000, I paid into an Equitable Life people felt they had secured and the situation in which pension scheme offered by my then employer. Shortly they find themselves today is contributing considerably after I joined the scheme, Equitable Life closed to new to a loss of confidence in our regulatory system and in business and the company collapsed. I was lucky in that our political response to regulatory failure. That is I lost, I guess, only a few hundred pounds, whereas important, and senior politicians need to do all they can many of my colleagues, like many of our constituents, to put it right. lost considerably more. In the organisation for which I I know that many colleagues want to contribute. I am worked—this was typical for many policyholders—salaries grateful for the opportunity to participate this afternoon. were pretty modest, so it was people on modest incomes I hope that a strong message will go out to my constituents who had set money aside, in some cases for many years, and other policyholders across the country of the deep to provide for their retirement who were left significantly seriousness with which this House treats this matter. I out of pocket as a result. In fact, the organisation I know that our debate is being watched very closely by worked for was a charity. Equitable Life had made a thousands of policyholders in all constituencies across particular effort to take a substantial share of the the country. charities’ pensions market. That is why, as a result of the important shares and securities market, a number of former and retired charity workers are now paying the 1.57 pm price. Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I apologise for From my own experience at that time, I view it as being a few minutes late at the beginning of the debate. important to remember that in taking firm and clear It is a pleasure to co-sponsor it with my hon. Friend the action now, we send a very clear signal about the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and the hon. importance of tight and effective regulation. When I Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton). I joined the scheme in 2000, I remember seeing advertisements would like to compliment the latter on being as active all over the London underground, encouraging people during the last Government as he has been during this to take out Equitable Life policies. It could only have Government to fight the Equitable Life pensions corner. been a matter of weeks before the schemes collapsed, I pay tribute to him for that. and it is quite beyond belief that regulators and, indeed, Many have spoken today, and this issue has been the company’s managers, were not aware at that time going on throughout the term of this Parliament and that they were advertising on the basis of an utterly for many years before that. I am keen not to repeat what false premise. I can only assume that this was a desperate others have said. Let me make it clear what we are attempt to bring money in as rapidly and to as great an asking for through this debate, which is for extent as possible to shore up what was well known to “the Government to make a commitment to provide full compensation be a collapsing business at that time. during the lifetime of the next Parliament as the economy and However, that was not known to customers at the public finances continue to recover.” time. I did not know it, as a relatively financially literate That wording was deliberate. We recognised, as we and savvy customer, so it is crucial now publicly to always recognised on the all-party parliamentary group, recognise that regulation was seriously deficient. One that we inherited a catastrophic economic situation so signal we want to send strongly from this afternoon’s that providing the full amount of money would cause debate is that we will not tolerate that kind of lax real problems. I believe that we have been reasonable regulation again. and sensible all the way through. We understand the My second point about confidence and why it matters challenges faced by the Government, and the motion, so much as we act now in response to the failure at as I have clarified, recognises that. We are fully aware of the time is that after the collapse of Equitable Life, the the challenges with our own economy and the global organisation for which I was working—in fact, I was the economy, so we are not asking for everything appropriate chief executive—attempted to set up a new group personal to be paid immediately. Rather, we advocate achieving pension scheme for our employees. A substantial proportion doing that over the next few years as the economy of those employees refused to have anything to do with recovers, which is fair and reasonable. this. They could not see the point of investing in another Ann Abraham was the parliamentary ombudsman pension scheme when they had been so badly let down all those years ago, producing the final report in 2008. the first time. We are talking about people largely in She said: 525 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 526

[Stephen Lloyd] that bewildering, I can imagine the profound frustration that so many of our constituents must feel, given that “The central story of this report is that this robust system of they were doing the right thing. This was a company regulation was not, in respect of the Society, implemented that was regulated, regulated within an inch of its appropriately—that is, consistently, fairly, and with proper regard life—that was the whole point of the sector—yet, through to the interests of those directly affected”. no fault of their own, it collapsed, and, a few years later, All of us who are present today, as well as the 200 or so the parliamentary ombudsman said that there had been members of the all-party parliamentary group, recognise a systemic failure of regulation. All those senior managers that the ombudsman herself saw that the regulatory and executives, whom we all knew, must have been framework had failed, and we understand the financial aware of what was happening. challenges. However, the reason we are here, and the reason the all-party parliamentary group, with the support I greatly appreciated what was said earlier by the hon. of EMAG, has not stopped lobbying and campaigning Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green). When throughout the current Parliament—I was privileged to she bought an Equitable Life pension which she kept become its secretary literally within weeks of being for a few years, all the marketing suggested that the elected in 2010—is that this is a matter of not just company was rock solid and the purchase almost a probity, but honour. The regulator failed, and this was steal. She was told “You really must invest in this.” Government regulation. Those people must have known what was happening, and I fail to understand why they were not penalised. Mr Mark Williams: My hon. Friend is right to say that it is a matter of honour, but it is also a matter of Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): My urgency. He is making his case in a very modest way. hon. Friend is putting his case very articulately. When May I invite him to endorse what was said earlier about Mr Ralph Williams, along with a large group of my the urgent need to settle individual claims—I think that constituents, came to see me about this whole matter, the figure we heard was £115 million—and to address one of the points that they made most strongly was that the issue of elderly people whose cases may well not be they were nearly all elderly. According to a parliamentary settled before they die unless we act now? answer that I received on 10 February, only £990 million of the £1.5 billion total has been paid out. The Government Stephen Lloyd: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A are profiting from people who are dying at this very number of people are now reaching an age when something moment. Is it not only fair for everyone, including the needs to be done extremely quickly. A constituent of annuitants, to be paid whatever the Government have mine, Billy Murphy, a variety artist for 70 years, had agreed, in full, now? been lobbying me patiently, and I had been supporting him, until he sadly passed away in January. He had been making contributions for many years, and he was a very Stephen Lloyd: I thank my hon. Friend for his powerful good example of the people to whom my hon. Friend intervention, and I look forward to hearing what the and many others have referred: decent, hard-working Minister has to say in response to it. People are dying: people who were prudent and put money aside. Those there are no two ways about it, because of the age people have lost out, not because of their own inadequacy profile. —not because they took a punt, or played the stock Another constituent of mine, David Stevens—a market—but because they invested in a well-established distinguished teacher for many years in Eastbourne, a and respected pensions company that was regulated by former mayor and, as it happens, a Conservative councillor, the Government. It was regulated by the Government: who is also a very decent chap—lost out hugely in the that is the whole point, and that is why we as a nation, Equitable Life debacle. He lost just under 80% of the whichever Government are in power, have a real worth of the pension in which he had invested for all responsibility to do what is right. those years. Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): I am a former This issue is about real people. That is why we are Equitable Life policyholder myself. I had a company here, and why the all-party parliamentary group receives pension policy. I distinctly remember questioning the so much cross-party support. It is not just that we all person who sold me the policy about how Equitable know many constituents who are suffering and have Life was regulated, and being told that there was no experienced a profound loss despite having done the chance of its failing because it was acting well within right thing, and despite being led to believe that the industry the regulations that existed at the time. was heavily regulated. As I stressed at the beginning of my speech, I have believed—as others do—that this is a Stephen Lloyd: That is a very important point. The point of honour ever since I was elected in 2010, which whole system—from the perspectives of finance, prudence is why I joined the all-party parliamentary group. and proper rule of contract law—fell apart under Equitable In a civilised country like the United Kingdom, people Life. It completely collapsed. When something like that are often rightly encouraged to save and be prudent so happens in a country like the United Kingdom, the that they are less of a burden on the general taxpayer. duty of the Government, irrespective of some of the Hundreds of thousands of people did that on the basis broader issues, is to provide proper compensation, because of an absolute assurance that this was a properly regulated otherwise the whole fabric becomes extremely vulnerable. industry, and then lost out through no fault of their I find it bewildering that none of the senior managers own. I have always believed that senior figures in the of the old Equitable Life—and none of the people who Treasury must have known that Equitable Life was were in charge of the marketing side or the investment wobbly, but many people have received 80% less than side—went to jail. If I, as a Member of Parliament, find they should have received, and that is unacceptable. 527 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 528

I was delighted to speak today. I hope that both the and the Government have pledged £1.5 billion. Without Government and the Opposition will provide some damaging the present deficit, £115 million would enable succour. us to deal with the most chronic, the most aged and the least well-off of the pension holders. They could be Several hon. Members rose— dealt with straight from the contingency of about £100 million that is committed in the Government Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. deficit, as is the total £1.5 billion. That is all in the Unfortunately, I must reduce the speaking time limit to deficit—it has to be for the Government to commit it. six minutes. If Members really must intervene, by all In my day, a commitment to spend counted as expenditure means let them do so, but I ask them to try not to use in the year it was committed, not in the year it was paid too much time. We need to move on to the next debate out. That might have changed, but it is a commitment sooner rather than later. and it will have been taken into account in the Budget this year. In my opinion, the whole amount could have 2.8 pm been taken into the year in which it was committed and future Government projections will certainly all have Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): it in. I shall confine myself to the reduced speaking time, Mr Deputy Speaker, and in doing so, I shall pay only Without any effect on the Government deficit, we short tributes to those who have secured this timely and could pay off the clearly identified with £115 million necessary debate. I believe that my hon. Friend the straight away and we could look at the as yet unspent Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) has £500 million. That would make a big start, although it followed this issue—as I have followed similar issues— would not go all the way. I share the emotion expressed through several Parliaments, and that the hon. Member by the hon. Member for The Cotswolds and could for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) has, in a very determined speak about it with the same intensity as he did, but the and concentrated fashion, made it a priority since his fact is that £500 million is there. There is £115 million to election on the basis of a very strong campaign on the deal with the worst cases. Let us get that paid out. I subject. agree with the hon. Member for Harrow East—this seems very much to be his idea—that we should have it Several aspects of this issue must make us uncomfortable. in the party manifestos. There might not be great hope We can all respond, in a way, to the emotive interjection of that, but why not try? I will certainly support it with of the hon. Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton- my party and I am sure that he will with his. I am not Brown), who called for immediate full payment and sure what success we will have, but we should support said that there was no alternative. That makes us all feel that. very good. However, I wonder what impact the debate will have on the many pension holders who are wondering Beyond that, we are dealing with a further £2.3 billion. whether we can improve on the present situation. We I do not think that we should consider a time period of must not, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford any more than three years. We must be precise, so that and Urmston (Kate Green) made clear, give false hope. unlike with the contaminated blood scandal, when the We are dealing with recalcitrance in the machinery of Government could sit back and say that having caused government and although we are entirely rightly those people’s deaths they would die sooner or later, this approaching this on an all-party basis, which it is important does not become a terminal problem. We cannot wait for us to maintain, it is clear that for some reason, that long. That money should be timetabled, committed although there is a will to do this among Ministers it is and spent within three years of the new Government held up because the machinery of government initially taking office. That is a proposal on which I think we can does not want to admit guilt, and at a later stage has to unite. We could bring most policy holders into it and it constrain things and uses the grounds of the public is doable. purse to do so. That will happen whatever state the public purse is in: other priorities will rank higher and 2.14 pm there will be other things we need to do. We will be told Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): I, too, we must look to the future and, above all, we must not congratulate the hon. Members who secured the debate. create precedents. I say to the Minister and my right Like my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), Blackman) and the hon. Member for Leeds North East who was a Minister, that they will find that the roadblocks (Fabian Hamilton), I have signed the pledge. This is not put up by the machinery of government are almost a phrase that often falls from my lips, but that was the insuperable. However, I believe that there is a way right thing to do under those circumstances and it is through in this case. right for Governments to keep their pledges. I know Many Members have referred to the Penrose committee that there are constraints in Government and having and to the ombudsman’s report. There was a very clear served as a member of this Government I am conscious statement, the like of which I do not think I have seen in of the economic pressures, and I understand the point my time in the House, about a total and comprehensive made by the hon. Member for Coventry North West failure of regulation. There are no ifs, no buts and no (Mr Robinson) about the fact that periodically civil extenuating circumstances, just an admission of failure servants come to Ministers with rather convenient escape and of incompetence on the part of Government that clauses, but the job of Ministers is sometimes not to should be put right. I believe that it can be put right and accept such escape clauses. think that there is a measure for doing so. I am speaking on the basis that this is a Government The great thing about this debate is that there is who are committed to markets and to stability and no doubt about the figures. I cannot see anybody disputing confidence in our markets. I believe in that. The financial the figures, not even the Treasury. The total is £4.3 billion services sector and insurance sector are a critical part of 529 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 530

[Robert Neill] were not politicians. We must accept that it was done and must now resolve it. Had it been resolved sooner, our markets. I speak as secretary of the all-party there might have been more money around to deal with parliamentary group on wholesale financial markets the issue. However, given where we are now and that the and services. For the markets to work efficiently, there economy is improving, we can certainly do justice to must be proper and secure regulation and when there is people through a sensible series of staged payments, a failure in regulation there must be genuine certainty of starting with those who are in the greatest need and recompense to those who have done no wrong, because who are most vulnerable. It is reasonable to ensure in otherwise honest and sensible investment is deterred. the course of the Parliament that proper justice is done. That is the risk if we do not do justice to the Equitable Let me give a sense of the impact on individuals. I Life policyholders. What message would that send? We have one constituent who makes the point that having all say that it is right to invest prudently and wisely for invested sensibly his income has effectively been cut one’s future and any such message would be against the by some £20,000 a year. To a pensioner, that is an awful philosophy of my Government and, I hope, against lot of money and they have had to downsize from their the philosophy of any responsible Government. In the long-established family home. Another constituent long-term, it is in the interests of good economics and has an acknowledged loss of £61,000 and is some good financial planning that we do justice to the Equitable £47,000 adrift with the payments out. That is not fair Life policyholders. for somebody who has worked hard and is now in no The motion is sensibly and moderately phrased. We position to supplement their income for the future. are not saying that everything can be done at once, but Another very elderly gentleman had to wait some that in the course of the Parliament this ought to be 18 months—because, frankly, of ineptitude and lost done. It might be that the proposal made by the hon. correspondence—to even receive acknowledgement of Member for Coventry North West is part of that. I will his entitlement. He should not have to come to his not be tied to an exact time frame, but it is particularly Member of Parliament to escalate these matters. That is important that the oldest—the pre-1992 people—are something that any sensible and well-run compensation given priority. It is also important to recognise that scheme should deal with as a matter of course. I am although the Government are picking up something sure we all hope eventually to overcome the difficulties that did not happen on their watch, part of being in for our constituents, but they should not be happening government is that one has to deal with the consequences in the first place. of what one inherits and has to do so fairly. Happily, thanks to the policies of this Government, the economy Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: I am sorry to reiterate the is improving. It is not unreasonable against that background point I made in an earlier intervention, but one member to expect those people who have made a sacrifice, in of the group of people who came to see me was elderly that their fair recompense has been delayed, to share and, if he dies, his widow will get only 50% of the 22% some of the fruits of that economic recovery. he is entitled to, which is already pretty measly. Is it not incumbent on the Government to make payments now, Mr Robinson: I know that the hon. Gentleman did in full, so that at least people can have that small not mean to interject any sort of difference between amount of money to pass on to their dependents? party or Government, but what he said was not right. The lack of regulation and the failure of the policies happened under a Conservative Government’s watch. Robert Neill: On that basis, it is particularly important We must get away from mentioning Governments, as that we deal with the pre-1992 people, who are generally this affects all parties and all Governments over the the oldest, but it is also important to have a proper, period of the failure. staged programme in place to deal with everyone. When I was a lawyer, I accepted, as I think anyone Robert Neill: I am sorry to disagree with the hon. would, that it was not possible to deliver for a client Gentleman, but he misunderstands what I was saying. everything in their legitimate claim, because money Regardless of party, there is an obligation on Government, might not be available or there might be delays. A and I must say that the 13 years for which there was a settlement would be reached and a sensible discount Government of which he was a distinguished member accepted as a resolution, but I do not think that anybody cannot be entirely ignored. We all must pick up what we would regard 22% as being a fair settlement of a claim. inherit from our predecessors, of whatever party, and The Minister is an honourable woman and she must tell we must put them right. That is the key and that is why I us today that she recognises that we are obliged, as a agree that having done the history we need to move on matter of honour, to give the people affected a sum and find a sensible way forward. much closer to that of their undisputed loss. As has been said, the quantum is not in dispute—it is a proven Stephen Lloyd: One of our profound frustrations was fact. We now need to say that, because of the improvement that the ombudsman made the ruling under the previous in the economy, we can do better than we were originally Government, which was sitting on a heck of a lot more able to, for whatever reason. That is the honourable and money than this Government. legitimate thing to do, and it would also restore faith in an important element of our financial sector. Robert Neill: My hon. Friend makes an entirely fair I agree with the hon. Member for Coventry North point. This should all have been sorted out before the West and I hope there is enough that we can all agree Government came on to the scene. The question of who on. The wording of the motion itself gives the Government was to blame and why ultimately requires almost a the flexibility, provided there is good will—I am sure Crichel Down sort of approach—we must all accept there is—to achieve its aims in a fair way for the people responsibility for what happens under regulators who who have lost out through no fault of their own. 531 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 532

2.22 pm As my right hon. Friend the Member for Saffron Walden (Sir Alan Haselhurst) has said, it would be nice if we Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): I will be brief. could get some credit. I congratulate the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds There could not be a more perfect Minister to respond North East (Fabian Hamilton) on giving us the opportunity to this debate than the Economic Secretary, because to debate this issue and on the motion, which sums up before she became a Minister she was a wonderful the situation very well. advocate on behalf of those of her constituents who have suffered as a result of the issue under discussion. I I want to make two points. First, I am sure others hope she is well placed to persuade her boss, the Chancellor, have received a similarly, or possibly identically, worded so that, in two weeks’ time all the hon. Members present letter to that which I have received from one of my can take some credit, not least for the settlement of the constituents, which states: £115 million. Every Member present has constituents “Victims of the Equitable scandal are…incensed that savers who are among the 945,000 Equitable Life policyholders with Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, Icesave, RBS, HBOS who have suffered huge losses. and others have been bailed out 100% while they have been left with…compensation of less than 25% of their losses.” I have raised the issue many times with the Treasury When I first read that statement, I was not entirely sure and I always receive the same response, which essentially that it was comparing like with like, but the more I states that the Treasury has decided to pay out £1.5 billion thought about it, the more obvious it became that, of its £4.3 billion obligation and that the Government ultimately, the comparison is completely valid, because understand the policyholders’ disappointment, but that there was a failure to regulate all those organisations tough decisions need to be made due to the pressures on and Equitable Life properly. The right hon. Member for the public finances. Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) has said—this We all understand that taxpayers’ money needs to be was the first thought that occurred to me—that there managed and spent carefully and with the greatest were macroeconomic reasons for having to bail out consideration. However, paying out the full amount of those organisations at the time. Even so, the comparison the obligation to the Equitable Life victims is not merely of the two problems that both resulted from the failure about spending the outstanding £2.8 billion of our of regulation is valid. scarce resources. It is about regaining and rebuilding Secondly, it has been said repeatedly that the ombudsman the public trust in the ability of our Government to pointed out unequivocally that there had been create a safe environment and regulation in financial maladministration. We need to think carefully about services. This is about the reputation of the British that and the implications for the whole ombudsman Government and financial services generally. system if we do not accept its consequences as well The problem is not going to disappear, regardless of as its judgment. An ombudsman system that finds which Members of Parliament survive the cull on 7 May. maladministration and then says how it can be dealt Equitable Life victims will continue campaigning and with cannot be properly respected by the Government the Members who are returned here will continue to put or anybody else unless the consequences of its findings—in pressure on the Government of the day to meet their this case, the costs involved—are addressed in full. It is obligation. The Equitable Life victims were, as we have important, for all the reasons that have already been heard, absolutely doing the right thing, working hard given, that the people affected are properly compensated, and paying into pension funds for their retirement. That but it is also important, if we are going to have a proper sense of responsibility and work ethic is exactly what ombudsman system, to accept not only its findings with this Government support. regard to maladministration, but the consequences of By paying only 22% of the obligation, the Government those findings. are ignoring the recommendation of the parliamentary I am perfectly content with the motion, which concludes ombudsman, as many Members have said—it is the by calling on the Government same recommendation that was previously accepted by “to make a commitment to provide full compensation during the the Government in full. The British Government’s ignoring lifetime of the next Parliament as the economy and public finances the parliamentary ombudsman sets a poor example for continue to recover.” ombudsman cases across the country. If the Government My hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North West do not respect an ombudsman recommendation, why (Mr Robinson), the hon. Member for Harrow East and would anyone do so? It sets a precedent for undermining others have put together, almost during the course of the work of ombudsmen generally throughout the United this debate, a package that might work. It involves using Kingdom. The need for austerity does not need to be more effectively the money that is already available now explained to any one of us. However, compensation for and then having a programme of meeting the full costs victims of the Equitable Life scandal is not something over the course of the next Parliament. I think that that that can be subjected to cuts. My constituents have strategy provides a solution and I hope the Minister will already lost enough time and nerve trying to fight this accept that when she responds to the debate. injustice and I urge my hon. Friend the Minister to honour the outstanding debt. 2.26 pm I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Government on what they have done so far. It certainly Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con): I congratulate was not their fault that we were left with these terrible my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob financial difficulties, but it is not right that the role of Blackman) on securing the debate and on his speech. the auditors and external consultants should go He, together with my right hon. Friend the Member for unmentioned. They should be held to account for this Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), came up with a scandal. Ernst and Young was providing audit services practical solution when they talked about the £115 million. to Equitable Life. The company’s bosses now say that 533 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 534

[Sir David Amess] Some hon. Members have referred to the fact that locating the people who are eligible for compensation they regard this to be a closed case, as the individuals has been slow and inadequate. I believe that about responsible have now retired. However, it is very far 151,000 people still need to be found by the Government. from being a closed case and a happy retirement for our What does the Minister plan to do to widen public constituents who are waiting for the remaining 78% of knowledge of this issue in the near future? What publicity their money to be paid out. I reiterate that this is not campaigns are planned to reach the most unreachable just about spending taxpayer’s money. It is about the people, many of whom are pensioners without internet credibility and respectability of this Government and of access? They would probably use the more traditional UK financial services, and about the trust in our forms of media used for publicity campaigns. Also, I ombudsmen system. found it difficult when preparing for this debate to get figures telling me how many of my constituents might 2.30 pm be affected. Will the Minister explain to the House why no figures are obtainable showing the regional breakdown Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): I, too, of those affected by the collapse of Equitable Life’s congratulate the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob payment scheme? Blackman) and my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Time is against many of the policyholders. We have North East (Fabian Hamilton) on their work on this heard that many have sadly died. The Lib Dem manifesto important issue and on securing the debate today. They promised to set up a outlined articulately the time line of the issues surrounding “transparent and fair payment scheme” Equitable Life, and I do not intend to repeat any of and the Conservative manifesto had a similar promise, that. More than 1 million people throughout the country but many policyholders feel that the current scheme have been affected by the issue, which dates back to the does not fulfil those promises. Those affected by the early 1990s. No Government between then and now maladministration of Equitable Life have been left in have adequately dealt with the problems; they have been great financial difficulty despite planning and saving problems for successive Governments. However, the carefully for their retirement. This has had a serious people who are affected do not care which party is in impact on their quality of life. In my experience, those government; they simply want to be compensated and affected are just as angry with the Government as with to feel supported by the Government of the day in Equitable Life. They are angry with successive Governments getting the compensation and help that they deserve. for not taking full responsibility for the failures identified On Friday, I met two of my constituents who have at the time and for not adequately compensating those been impacted by the maladministration of Equitable affected. One elderly constituent said to me, “They are Life in quite different ways. The first was a gentleman waiting for us to die.” That is the appalling impression who had cautiously saved for many years with Equitable that that lady has been given, and I am sure that she is Life. His hope, when he took out the policy, was to fund not alone. an early retirement at the age of 60. He is now approaching I acknowledge that the present Government have that age, but his hope has been dashed by the failure of made considerable progress towards compensating those Equitable Life. He managed to withdraw some of his who have suffered losses, but that comes nowhere near money when the problems started to occur, but he has to fulfilling the promises of a fair payment scheme that still suffered the loss of tens of thousands of pounds appeared in the Conservative and Liberal Democrat and he has been given to understand that he is entitled manifestos. That is not just my view; I suspect that it is to no further compensation. The second was a lady in the view of the vast majority of the 1 million people her 80s who had saved for decades but has been left with who have been affected. I ask the Government not to just a small fraction of her money in retirement. leave this matter any longer and to address it in the These are not gullible people. The policyholders who upcoming Budget. I ask them to ensure that people are got caught up in the Equitable Life disaster were hard- compensated so that they no longer feel that the working taxpayers who played by the rules, worked Government are letting them down. hard and prudently and responsibly saved for their retirement. The lady I just mentioned had worked for a 2.36 pm company that had to comply with financial services legislation, which only serves to fuel her incredulity at Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): It is a what has been allowed to happen. She retired 20 years pleasure to speak in the debate. I congratulate my hon. ago, hoping that the policy she had taken out would Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), fulfil its promise, but she was misled and mis-sold a my neighbour the hon. Member for Leeds North East policy that she had received with good industry-approved (Fabian Hamilton) and my hon. Friend and colleague advice. She believed that she held a legitimate and the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd). I am lucrative policy. She, and many others like her, put their proud to be a member of the all-party parliamentary faith in the pensions system and planned for their group for justice for Equitable Life policyholders, which retirement sensibly, only to find that the rug had been has shown how powerfully we can campaign when we pulled from beneath their feet when they retired. These do so collectively and collaboratively on a cross-party are not wealthy people; they are people who are being basis. I congratulate the co-chairs and officers for leading hit by the cost of living crisis that my other constituents us in that endeavour. are facing. They have lost life-changing sums of money I start by welcoming the progress that has been and their standard of living has been devastated in made. I remember the early meetings that took place many cases. Their own personal long-term economic towards the end of the last Parliament and the frustration plans have been shredded, through absolutely no fault that, at that stage, there was no compensation at all. of their own. We finally got the announcement of compensation, and 535 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 536

I welcome the fact that payments surpassing £1 billion the campaign launched in October 2013 to find the have now been made to 896,367 policyholders. That 400,000 lost victims of the Equitable Life scandal. clearly represents great progress, but the clear message There are now approximately 142,000 policyholders from the House today is that it is not enough. This who are due a payment but the scheme has not yet been debate itself shows that this is not the end of the matter, able to trace or validate their address, so I hope that however convenient it might be for the Treasury—either work will continue. This is taking too long, given that side of the election—were that to be the case. these people are in their retirement, need this money I strongly support the motion today and I shall carry now and simply cannot wait. Tragically, some of them on campaigning on behalf of my constituents as part of have died, and some will die without having had the the group. About 40 of my constituents have raised this chance to get that money they are clearly owed as a matter with me over the past few years, and many have result of the maladministration and lack of regulation. told me of the hardship that they have experienced. What is particularly galling is that there has been a Virtually none of them are wealthy people. They are double failure of regulation: the failure to regulate the people whose modest and very well planned retirement banks properly led to the catastrophic collapse in the incomes have been drastically affected, and that has had banking sector, which then led to vast amounts of a huge impact on their quality of life at a time when money going to bail out those banks, and that is one they should not have to face that and can do nothing reason there is not the money in the pot to compensate about it. I pay tribute to all of them, and to the way in these people. That is a bitter pill to swallow, which is which they have campaigned as members of the Equitable why there is no justification for not backing today’s Members Action Group. They include Ray and Marjorie motion and not coming forward, finally, after all these Dunn, who have worked closely with me and played an years, with the solution that is clearly the right and important role in bringing people together. It has been a moral one. pleasure to work with them and all my constituents. Let me give an example to illustrate that point. After the giving of £620 million to 37,000 annuitants, 945,000 Stephen Lloyd: Would my hon. Friend also acknowledge Equitable Life policyholders have shared the remaining the outstanding work that the members of the Equitable £775 million, which of course is the 22% of their losses. Members Action Group have done for us in Parliament? Yet when we look at how much money has gone into the They have kept us informed and provided a secretary, banking sector—we still have publicly owned banks—we and they have ensured that we pulled together on their see that there is a discrepancy that simply does not sit behalf. right and must be addressed. We must finally draw this matter to a close. We must Greg Mulholland: My hon. Friend makes an important finally see a fair and final resolution. I share the passion point. EMAG has done a wonderful job. Working together, of right hon. and hon. Members in not wanting to have inside and outside the House, has been an exemplary to debate that; we must not be debating this issue at the way of getting positive change. end of the next Parliament. I hope we shall see some One thing has not been raised in this debate so far progress in the Budget. It is realistic to say that it will be and I am pleased to raise it strongly, as a member of the some and not all—the latter would not be realistic—but Public Administration Committee in this Parliament. it absolutely must be in the next Parliament. Let us now One contributor today said it was disgraceful that neither have a cross-party convention, let us take this out of the the previous Government nor this Government had electioneering and have a genuine, firm policy commitment fully abided by the clear view or the will of the ombudsman, that the next Government will honour this pledge, as because they thought, “What’s the point?”I urge right hon. should have been done. It is an obligation on the British and hon. Members to look at the Public Administration state, an obligation on this House and an obligation on Committee’s reports in this Parliament, because we are this Government and the next one. It is an obligation calling for a radical overhaul, part of which should be that must finally be honoured. that Governments are bound by such decisions so we would never have this nonsense. 2.44 pm We have an absurd situation, because we are talking Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): I wish to acknowledge, about the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman, again, as has been done throughout this good debate, with the responsibility to Parliament. The Public the extent of the hardship and anxiety that all too many Administration Committee has a view, as the Select people have endured as a result of the failure of Equitable Committee that oversees the ombudsman, and it wants Life. I, too, pay tribute to the hon. Members for Harrow a radical overhaul, The ombudsman’s office wants a East (Bob Blackman) and for Eastbourne (Stephen radical overhaul, as does the ombudsman herself and Lloyd) and my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds the public, but we cannot have one because Parliament North East (Fabian Hamilton) who have led the all-party cannot reform its own ombudsman—only the Government group, spoken in the debate and championed the cause can do so because it requires primary legislation. That is of the victims of the Equitable Life collapse over the absurd and we need to find a way to enable Parliament years, and to others like them. Like the hon. Member to introduce legislation for matters that are parliamentary for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland), I also want and not to do with the Government. I urge the Government to pay tribute to EMAG for its tireless campaigning on in the Parliament—whoever is in government—to listen behalf of so many people who have lost so much. Its finally to that, to let go and allow Parliament to reform campaign has won real sympathy and support in Parliament its own ombudsman in a way that is so clearly needed. and among the wider public. I am glad that this Government have come up with My hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North more than Sir John Chadwick proposed, which we all West (Mr Robinson) rightly pointed out that the hon. strongly said was not enough. I am also pleased with Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) 537 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 538

[Stephen Timms] More than 90% of Conservative Members signed that pledge:; the Prime Minister did, the Chancellor of the seemed to be a little unsure of the history of this case. Exchequer did. Every Liberal Democrat MP signed it, The problems at Equitable Life occurred between 1990 including the Deputy Prime Minister, and Equitable and 2001, so almost all occurred under the regulatory Life members and EMAG expected that once the coalition arrangements in place before the creation of the Financial took office it would be delivered, but it was not. Not Services Authority. The previous Government, of whom surprisingly, EMAG felt and still feels utterly let down I was a member, issued an apology in January 2009 to by so many who signed that pledge in 2010 and did not policyholders, on behalf of the public bodies and the deliver. successive Governments responsible for the regulation My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East of Equitable Life between 1990 and 2001 and for the referred to his amendment in the House in November maladministration that took place. 2010. I was just looking through the list of the 76 Members The consistent argument of EMAG has always been who voted for it, which includes the hon. Members for that the losses incurred by Equitable Life members are Harrow East and for Eastbourne, and of course my due to maladministration, as opposed to the bad hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East, but it investments and rash actions undertaken by Equitable was mostly Labour Members who voted for it. Hardly Life. As we have heard in the debate, EMAG felt any of the 287 Conservative Members who signed that vindicated by the ombudsman’s reports. The previous pledge voted for my hon. Friend’s amendment. Government did not agree with that view—with the view of the ombudsman. Members of the current The Government formally accepted the ombudsman’s Government stated clearly during the election campaign recommendation, but described Sir John Chadwick’s —we have heard about the pledges that were widely recommendation as one of the building blocks for a signed by Government Members—that they did agree. solution. That infuriated the ombudsman who argued In government, however, they have not delivered. that as the Government had accepted her recommendation, Sir John’s report was no longer relevant. It is worth The previous Government recognised that many policy- looking again at what the ombudsman recommended. holders were disproportionately affected by the events She wrote: at Equitable Life, and on that basis announced a commitment to a payments scheme to help. The ombudsman “My second—and central—recommendation is that the proposed a scheme entailing a case-by-case review, looking Government should establish and fund a compensation scheme, with a view to assessing the individual cases of those who have at 30 million investment decisions by 1.5 million people been affected by the events covered in this report and providing over 20 years. The ombudsman thought that would take appropriate compensation. The aim of such a scheme should be two and a half years, but others thought it would be to put those people who have suffered a relative loss back into the more. The previous Government asked Sir John Chadwick position that they would have been in had maladministration not to advise on a simpler scheme. His report in July 2010, occurred.” after the general election, referred to No one would claim to the House that that is what has “the obvious impracticability—if not impossibility—of determining been done. The hon. Member for Southend West (Sir these questions on an individual basis”. David Amess) made the point—the ombudsman’s The new Government, elected in 2010, explicitly recommendation has not been delivered—so I am a accepted the ombudsman’s recommendation. Indeed, little puzzled, if I can cavil, as to why the motion invites today’s motion, which I shall address in a moment, us to welcome the Government’s acceptance of the congratulates the Government on accepting the ombudsman’s findings in full, given that they certainly ombudsman’s recommendation in full. However, that have not been implemented. announcement having been made by the new Government, Legislation was enacted in 2011 for a scheme. It is not the ombudsman then wrote then to every Member of an easy thing to fashion a scheme that is both fair to the House in July 2010, saying: members and protects the public purse. The Government “In the light of the new Government’s commitment to implement” came up with a scheme that was reasonable, although it my fell far short of what was hoped for. I am sure that other “recommendation in full, the approach embodied in the Chadwick Members who have spoken have seen the film on the report has thus been overtaken by events and cannot provide a EMAG website, “Time for the Treasury to Settle its basis for the implementation of the recommendation.” Debts”, which features quotes from both the Conservative She said that her proposal and Chadwick were irreconcilable, and Liberal Democrat manifestos—commitments referred but Chadwick, as we have heard in this debate—the to by my hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and hon. Member for Leeds North West mentioned this—was Shotts (Pamela Nash) and by the right hon. Member in fact what was done. During the election campaign in for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) earlier 2010, the then Opposition spokesman went around the in the debate. The Government therefore formally country promising that, if elected, the Conservatives accepted the ombudsman’s recommendations, but instead would deliver on the ombudsman’s recommendation. implemented Sir John Chadwick’s recommendation. During the campaign, EMAG asked candidates to sign a pledge. The hon. Member for Harrow East was telling We all hoped that the new scheme would administer us that Conservative candidates were encouraged to payments effectively and efficiently. The Public Accounts sign this pledge. It said: Committee has been critical of the administration of the scheme, referring to a series of administrative failures, “I pledge to the voters of this constituency that if I am elected including delays in making payments to policy holders to Parliament at the next general election, I will support and vote for proper compensation for victims of the Equitable Life scandal and poor customer service. Then in the March 2013 and I will support and vote to set up a swift, simple, transparent Budget the Chancellor announced some welcome limited and fair payment scheme—independent of government—as compensation for those who bought their with-profits recommended by the Parliamentary Ombudsman.” annuity before 1992. 539 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 540

Many people have suffered, in some cases a great in the next Parliament? The right hon. Member for East deal, as a result of the failure of Equitable Life. The Ham (Stephen Timms) did not deal with that point, but hardship suffered is not in doubt. We support the steps our constituents want it to be addressed. that Ministers have taken to provide some compensation, but it falls very far short of what Equitable Life members Andrea Leadsom: Yes, I am. thought they were being promised by Conservative and Liberal Democrat Members during the election campaign. In line with representations received, out of that £1.5 billion, we covered the relative losses of the with-profits The Minister who will reply to the debate today or trapped annuitants in full. Those annuitants were signed that pledge. She made a commitment to her unable to move their funds elsewhere or to mitigate the constituents to support and vote for the full compensation impact of their losses by seeking employment. They that the ombudsman called for. It is for her to explain to were also generally the oldest policyholders. The remaining the House and to all those who have lost so much why available funding, on the advice of the independent that pledge has not been delivered. commission, was distributed pro rata to other policyholders, 2.54 pm representing 22.4% of their relative loss. I know that that was deeply disappointing to many. These difficult The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrea decisions were taken in the light of the position of the Leadsom): I add my congratulations to my hon. Friend public finances and in the interests of overall fairness to the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and the all taxpayers. hon. Members for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) and for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) on securing the The motion notes that debate. Their tireless work on this important issue is “the Parliamentary Ombudsman recommended that policyholders greatly appreciated by our constituents. Prior to my should be put back in the position they would have been in had ministerial appointment, I was a member of the all-party maladministration not occurred”. group on Equitable Life policyholders and a number of However, the ombudsman went on to say that the my constituents have been badly affected, so I am impact on the public purse should also be taken into deeply sympathetic to policyholders’ losses in this sorry account when considering payment. She also stated that tale. I shall explain what the Government have done to she was acutely conscious of the potential scale of what resolve the long-standing issue of Equitable Life and set was recommended. She has subsequently written to the the record straight on some of the history. all-party group to say that the Government’s decisions This situation has been a key priority for the Government. on affordability and eligibility cannot be said to be While Equitable remained solvent and continued to pay incompatible with her report. premiums to its members, its problems caused a great I congratulate all Members who contributed to the many of its policyholders to suffer significant emotional debate. It is clear that they have been assiduous in and financial distress. When we came to office, we representing their constituents and have done an excellent made a commitment to implement the ombudsman’s job. My hon. Friend the Member for Southend West recommendation that the Government should make (Sir David Amess) talked about Ernst and Young as the fair and swift payments to Equitable Life policyholders auditors of Equitable, so he might be interested to note in recognition of the part that the Government played that in 2010, for its part in Equitable Life, it was fined in Equitable’s problems. Those payments were swift, in £500,000, plus costs of £2.4 million, and received a that within six months of taking office, we introduced reprimand by the accountants’ joint disciplinary scheme. the Bill that became the Equitable Life (Payments) Act 2010, and payments started to be made to policyholders The hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela in June 2011, which was within six months of Royal Nash) asked for a regional breakdown of amounts Assent. They were also fair because the scheme’s rules paid. No breakdown by region has yet been compiled, are based on the Government’s full acceptance of the although we could produce a basic one if that would parliamentary ombudsman’s findings of maladministration be particularly helpful. However, I assure her that and, importantly, on the assumption that all policyholders regionality does not influence the scheme’s operation in would have decided to invest elsewhere had the any way. maladministration regarding regulatory returns not My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East, as occurred. Of course, that is a conservative assumption. well as the hon. Member for Coventry North West The ombudsman did not quantify the relative loss, (Mr Robinson) and my hon. Friend the Member for which is the difference between the amount received by Southend West, talked about the situation for the pre-1992 Equitable Life policyholders and what they would have annuitants and the fact that they are elderly and financially received if they had invested in the same way in a vulnerable. The first regulatory return from Equitable similar company, but this Government assessed the Life that would have been different had there been no total as £4.1 billion. That was significantly more than maladministration was that of 1991. This was available the final figure of £340 million that was arrived at under on request from Equitable Life from mid-1992 and Sir John Chadwick’s methodology, which was based on could not, therefore, have been expected to influence the previous Government’s limited acceptance of the investor decisions before late 1992. Therefore no relative ombudsman’s findings. In the 2010 spending review, loss was suffered by this group. However, as hon. Members after taking account of the need to be fair to all taxpayers, have recognised, the Government agreed that this group we announced that up to £1.5 billion would be made of pre-1992 annuitants, although they are not affected available for payment to eligible policyholders. by maladministration, have suffered significantly from a loss of income that they would have expected. For this Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): Is my reason the Government made an exceptional ex gratia hon. Friend going to address the part of the motion payment of £5,000 to this group, with a further £5,000 that calls on the Government to pay full compensation to those on pension credit, in December 2013. 541 Equitable Life26 FEBRUARY 2015 Equitable Life 542

[Andrea Leadsom] this Government have no plans to change the funding available to the payment scheme. Our focus is rather to The hon. Member for Leeds North East and the right complete the small number of remaining payments. We hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth) raised the have continued to make excellent progress with the question of compensation for the Icelandic bank savers scheme itself. Only this week I was pleased to report that in Icesave and why Equitable Life savers are being over £1 billion has been paid to nearly 900,000 eligible treated differently.The ex gratia payments to UK depositors policyholders. in Icelandic banks were made as a result of a decision In conclusion, I genuinely have deep sympathy with by the previous Government to guarantee all qualifying those who carefully saved for retirement and are not retail deposits specifically to protect the financial stability receiving the income they expected. Resolving the Equitable of the UK. The financial compensation scheme was Life issue, and doing so swiftly and in a way that was simply the agent for these payments and we expect to fair to all taxpayers, has been a priority for the Government. recover all those sums from the Icelandic banks and are continuing to do so. 3.4 pm Specifically in the case of failed banks and why they receive compensation, the Financial Services Compensation Bob Blackman: I congratulate the 12 Back-Bench Scheme is funded by a levy on financial services firms, Members from across the House who made speeches in so again those compensations do not come from the the debate and the huge number who intervened. The public purse. will of the House is quite clear: this is a debt of honour, and it is no fault of the individual savers whose life In answer to the hon. Members for Moray (Angus savings have been either lost or severely depleted. We Robertson) and for Airdrie and Shotts who asked when have heard many examples from Members. I could the scheme stops tracing people, all policyholders are produce a mailbag full of examples of individuals from either written to at their last known address or put across the country who invested for their retirement but through electronic tracing methods, such as looking are now unable to supplement their income, through no them up against the electoral roll. Attempts are made fault of their own. They did the right thing by saving for through the Department for Work and Pensions to their retirement, but through regulatory failure, a failure trace those owed more than £250. I should tell hon. by Equitable Life and a conspiracy with the then Members that about 50% of the remaining policyholders Government, their savings were taken away from them. are due less than £100. This is a debt of honour, so I must stress the point My hon. Friend the Member for Poole (Mr Syms) that we should honour it over the course of the next asked whether we could re-allocate the remaining Parliament. I completely accept my hon. Friend the £500 million. That remaining £500 million is to make Minister’s point that the economy was in tatters in 2010 ongoing payments to annuitants for the duration of and that a series of difficult decisions had to be made. I their annuity. Finally, the hon. Member for Stretford congratulate the Government on coming forward with and Urmston (Kate Green) and my hon. Friends the a large sum of public money to compensate those Members for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) individuals who are due. However, a debt of £2.8 billion and for Southend West asked what we had done to is still owed to those people who saved for their retirement. ensure that people were not put off the idea of saving That should be funded over the course of the next for their retirement. As hon. Members know, the Parliament. Government have undertaken a fundamental reform of the regulatory system, and put in place the Financial However, given the remarks from the Minister and Services Act 2012 to establish a new system of specialised the shadow Minister, I fear that there are currently no and focused financial services regulators. They abolished plans to provide that compensation. That means the the FSA and set up new regulators within the Bank of battle will go on. The fight will continue until such time England and the independent conduct of business regulator, as the Equitable Life policyholders receive the compensation the Financial Conduct Authority. These reforms are they are due. Therefore, if it comes to it, we will press designed to ensure that the conduct of firms, and with it the motion to a vote. the interests of consumers and participants in our financial Question put and agreed to. markets, are at the heart of the regulatory system and Resolved, are given the priority that they deserve. That this House congratulates the Government on providing a The recent news on the improvements that this economy scheme to compensate victims of the Equitable Life scandal; has made since 2010 is to be welcomed and shows that welcomes the Government’s acceptance of the Parliamentary this Government’s long-term economic plan is working, Ombudsman’s findings in full; notes that the Parliamentary but we have a long way to go to restore the public Ombudsman recommended that policyholders should be put finances, and the public purse remains very constrained. back in the position they would have been in had maladministration not occurred; further notes that most victims have only received It is right that we have taken action on the Equitable partial compensation compared to the confirmed losses; and calls issue, but we must balance this with the need to continue on the Government to make a commitment to provide full to address the difficult position of the public finances compensation during the lifetime of the next Parliament as the and the impact on fairness to all taxpayers. That is why economy and public finances continue to recover. 543 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 544

Epilepsy I feel that we have not done enough to push for greater change and greater focus, and to ensure that Government and the charities have greater ambition for 3.6 pm people with epilepsy. However, I think we have done a Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): I beg to move, reasonable amount, and I hope that over time we will do much more in this place and outside. That this House has considered epilepsy. Stigma is one of the problems. Epilepsy is not trendy; I would like to start by thanking the Backbench it is not a fashionable condition. It is not information Business Committee for allowing my right hon. Friend that people volunteer when they make a job application. the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), I can assure Members that one does not talk about it as who has done so much to support and advocate on a set-piece at social events when describing an illness behalf of people with epilepsy, and me the opportunity during the week. People with epilepsy frequently try to to have this debate. It is a great honour to be able to disguise it; we can see it in their eyes. I have always been open this debate in the presence of so many fellow very clear about it, because I believe that we should take members of the all-party group on epilepsy, who over away the stigma. We cannot normalise it, because it is the past five years have worked together to ensure that not a normal condition, but we can make it something we raise epilepsy issues with all the relevant Departments. that needs to be addressed in equality with other chronic However, I personally feel that I might not have done conditions. enough. There is still so much more to do to ensure that epilepsy has its rightful place in health and social care and that it is seen as a chronic condition that needs Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): Does the hon. Lady think greater attention, greater support and—this is very close it shocking that in this day and age a very large public to my heart—much less stigmatisation. body like Transport for London—London Underground —could sack a young woman for the fact that she has Mr Mark Prisk (Hertford and Stortford) (Con): I am epilepsy? Does she agree that we cannot allow this to grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way and sorry to happen? interrupt quite so early in her speech. I strongly support her and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham Laura Sandys: I very much welcome that intervention. and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) in securing this debate. I was going to mention that case, which is extraordinary Like my right hon. Friend, I am blessed by having a for two reasons. First, why would the young woman national epilepsy centre in my constituency, but I still lose her job? She already had the job and was succeeding have constituents who worry about stigma. In particular, in it, so why was the sudden revelation of her epilepsy a Rachel Dawes and Susan Gayler feel that even now, reason for losing it? Secondly, her manager said that it despite having a national centre of excellence locally, had absolutely no impact on her ability to perform her the issue of stigma is important? Does my hon. Friend role. agree? This is, in many ways, a 19th-century attitude. It is the expectation that when one tells somebody that one is Laura Sandys: I most certainly do. Addressing stigma epileptic, they expect one to be dropping to the floor is at the heart of the treatment, care and, frankly, foaming at the mouth. Many in this Chamber may not funding for epilepsy. Too often it is swept under the know that until the 1970s I, as an epileptic, would not carpet. For example, statistically there should be many have been allowed to marry—although I am sure that more Members of Parliament who have declared themselves many did because they did not declare that they had as having epilepsy. That is because of the stigma and the epilepsy. That is the sort of stigma that we were dealing overall environment for people like me—I am a sufferer, with not so long ago. It is a Dickensian, 19th-century as is my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North perspective. I believe, fundamentally, that that lies a and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard)—so no doubt there are little at the heart of why, for a chronic condition that more Members of Parliament who have epilepsy. impacts one in 100 people—more than many other conditions—epilepsy does not get the right level of Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Part of the training attention. This is an important task for us here in the for first-aiders is how to deal with epilepsy. Does my Chamber and for the all-party group on epilepsy, and hon. Friend agree that if first aid were part of the school for me to continue outside this place. Many other conditions curriculum, more people would be able to deal with have overcome embarrassment and stigmatisation. It is such situations? absolutely crucial that we start to address this through our public services, our schools and education system, Laura Sandys: I know that first aid in schools is an and our hospitals and GPs. issue that the hon. Gentleman is very passionate about. It is important that those of us with epilepsy are I absolutely do agree. This condition impacts one in much more vocal. I hope that the Serjeant at Arms will every 100 people; it is a very large-scale chronic condition. not come and arrest me, but my hon. Friend the Member When a child falls to the floor in school, they need for Blackpool North and Cleveleys and I have actually people who are confident to deal with them—who broken the rules of the House. We did not exactly sneak know what the issues are, can calm the rest of the up Big Ben, but we broke the very clear rules saying that classroom, and understand that this can be managed anyone with epilepsy is not allowed to go and look at it. and supported. If people in authority do not know how We thought, “You try and catch us!” We broke the rules to respond—we have examples among the police, those of the House, and went up to the top. We have used that in schools, and even nurses—they feed the stigma, feed as a platform for saying that we should both contest it the problem, and feed the anxiety around people with when epilepsy is not supported effectively enough, and this condition. challenge people who do not understand epilepsy enough 545 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 546

[Laura Sandys] should consider what more they can do on access to such neuropsychological assessment and care, and in and are fearful of those who have it. We think it took supporting the work of the Walton neuro centre? 150 years for somebody with epilepsy to go up Big Ben, and we are trying to identify other rules that we can Laura Sandys: Absolutely. There are some wonderful, break, so if hon. Members hear that my hon. Friend excellent centres in constituencies around the country, and I have got into trouble, they will know what it is all including in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, but about. there are too few of them and there is not enough Epilepsy has a very wide range of symptoms. I am immediate referral to tertiary care once a GP identifies very lucky to have very mild epilepsy. It is controlled that epilepsy might be at the heart of a problem. We and I am on medication, so there is no issue and I am need to ensure that there is a greater understanding at very unlikely to have a seizure. However, it is incumbent the core of our health sector so that there is more on people such as me to be a voice for people who are referral. To be frank, we need more specialists. There is suffering, and who may have a seizure every 10 to a major problem in the referral process. Epilepsy Action 15 minutes. I know that my right hon. Friend the says that 138,000 people have been misdiagnosed. Some Member for Chesham and Amersham, like YoungEpilepsy people are diagnosed with epilepsy who do not have it and Epilepsy Research, very much focuses on people and others do not have the right medication. It is crucial with chronic epilepsy. Such people do not necessarily to address the huge problem with referrals to tertiary care. have a voice, and it is for us to make their voice heard. Following diagnosis, the cost-effective and life-enhancing The issue that has arisen in relation to the lady from pathway is to ensure that the ongoing care fits the bill. London Underground is not the only example. Several There are straightforward National Institute for Health people have e-mailed their Member of Parliament and and Care Excellence guidelines that lay out a clear asked me to raise their concerns. A young woman with pathway. There must be access to an epilepsy nurse. It a masters degree cannot find a job because employers would be fantastic if more GPs had epilepsy as a say that she has declared she has epilepsy and they are specialism. There must be a wrap-around package that concerned that she may become a problem for the allows people to live their lives and take control of their company. That has now happened 12 times, but it must chronic condition. We must ensure that we have the not continue. We must ensure that employers, the police right level of support at every single level. I am talking and hospitals—even in a hospital, someone having a about people who are still potentially going to work and seizure has been accused of being drunk and disorderly— living their life. understand people with epilepsy and recognise their We have a serious problem with SUDEP, or sudden condition for what it is. unexpected death in epilepsy. That is an outrage. About 1,000 people every year die in their sleep. Many of them Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): are younger people who are just moving from youth to May I congratulate my hon. Friend on leading the adult services and there is not the wrap-around care charge in getting this debate? She will be very sadly that is needed. We all know from our casework that in missed in this place, where she has made a tremendous every instance and with any condition, moving from contribution. Does she agree that it is very important to youth services to adult care is a problem. We are seeing understand more about the condition of epilepsy? Another serious problems with those who have night-time seizures. area in which I take a great interest is autism, and it is To be frank, although people say that that is a problem, estimated that 46% of children with autism also have there are examples of countries in Europe that are seizures. Does she agree that we do not yet know doing better. It is crucial that we meet those targets and enough about the relationship between epilepsy and ensure that we do not fall behind the standards of other other conditions, such as autism, to enable us to succeed European countries. on behalf of such people? I see that Mr Deputy Speaker is looking for me to wrap up. I would like to commend three sets of people, Laura Sandys: Absolutely. I totally agree. In many but also to challenge them. People with epilepsy live instances, people with epilepsy also have other chronic with a difficult and unpredictable condition. I take my conditions, which are no doubt contributory factors. hat off to them and to the people who care for them. The level of support for research on epilepsy is significantly However, I want them to come out and talk about lower than for other conditions. Again, it is seen as epilepsy. I ask them to please ensure that their voice is a secondary or tertiary priority when it comes to heard, because if it is not, we will not get the care that research funds. It is absolutely crucial to understand the we need. The charities are important, but they need interrelationship between epilepsy and autism, as well to work together more. Their voices must be unified to as between epilepsy and school achievement and all ensure that they are heard. I call on the Government to sorts of not only chronic conditions but life-restricting—as address the Cinderella status of epilepsy. We should be well as life-enhancing—problems. I believe that we need doing so much better. We have criteria and there are a lot more research, but this comes down to people examples, globally, of countries that are doing better. being clear that epilepsy matters. We must give people with epilepsy a lifeline to ensure that they can live a full life, and we must put the right Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): On that level of investment into research to address chronic point, I have had correspondence with a hospital in my epilepsy in the long term. constituency called the Walton neuro centre. It says that neuropsychological care is very important, especially Several hon. Members rose— for younger people who, if they have access early enough, have the propensity to go on and achieve their full Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am potential. Does the hon. Lady agree that Ministers bringing in an eight-minute limit. I call Kate Hoey. 547 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 548

3.24 pm occurrence of attacks. Almost three quarters of people suffering from epilepsy can be free of seizures once they Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Deputy find the most appropriate medication. Women of child- Speaker. I will certainly keep to that time limit. bearing age are restricted in the drugs that they can I welcome the debate and congratulate the hon. Member take, and people who first suffer from epilepsy in early for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) and the right hon. adulthood often take a long time to adjust to the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) on condition and make changes to their lifestyle. making it happen. As Members will know, I had an I want to draw the Minister’s attention to the case of Adjournment debate on the subject on 29 January 2013, London Underground worker Karen Guyott, which just after the report “A Critical Time for Epilepsy in was mentioned earlier. She is 29 years old, and she was England” had come out. diagnosed with epilepsy about five years ago. She has The hon. Member for South Thanet covered a wide now been dismissed due to her epilepsy. Karen was one range of points, all of which I agree with her about, of a number of London transport staff suffering with particularly the stigma of epilepsy. That is a crucial epilepsy—I think that 16 are London Underground point, but I will not go over all of what she said. I want operational staff, and there are a further 11 working for to use this opportunity to ask the Minister various questions. Transport for London. He kindly responded in detail to the Adjournment London Underground’s original response to Karen’s debate, when we had slightly longer than half an hour, diagnosis was to attempt to dismiss her right away using and I thought it would be helpful to follow up on a its capability procedure. The National Union of Rail, number of the issues that were covered. Maritime and Transport Workers successfully fended I want to ask the Minister about the progress that has off that attempt, and instead got London Underground been made on urgent referrals, about which I and a to make reasonable adjustments. Now, as I said, she has number of other Members have been concerned. As I been dismissed, and I think the Minister should look understand it, referrals are in theory currently meant to into that and review it. take two weeks, but I have had constituents who have Karen’s attendance record was exemplary, and in had to wait well over two months. I want to check what January this year during an episode, one of her colleagues the Minister is doing to urge commissioning groups and moved her from a place of safety and left her outside a others to speed that up, because it really makes a locked station supervisor’s office that was close to an difference if someone is seen as quickly as possible. escalator. Karen became disorientated and wandered Part of the problem in looking at epilepsy is the lack towards the escalator, but her colleague realised the of understanding throughout the country. Many people danger and moved her into the office. As a result of that do not say that they have epilepsy of one form or incident, instead of providing training for Karen’s colleagues, another, but it is amazing how many times, when it comes London Underground argues that Karen’s condition is up in a conversation, people say, “Oh yes, my cousin”—or too risky for it to manage, and it is clear that it is no uncle or whoever—“has epilepsy”. There is always longer willing to accommodate her. Karen is a prominent somebody, because the numbers are very large. Will the trade union activist, but if London Underground is Minister say something about that? using epilepsy as an excuse because she is a trade union As I mentioned in the previous debate, a significant activist and it does not like her or some of the things she number of people with epilepsy have avoidable seizures. says, that is even more shocking. If the correct treatment is given at an early stage, that London Underground agreed to undertake a further consequence can be avoided, which prevents benefit risk assessment that amounts to an additional requirement dependency, the loss of employment or people having on Karen to which other employees without epilepsy to give up education due to a lack of support. are not subject. Since then Karen has been dismissed, Will the Minister confirm what progress his Department but London Underground insisted that she could not has made on some of the other issues that were raised in work at any station that had a public highway attached my Adjournment debate and previous debates, and by to it or any escalators or stairs. Everything she did my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South (Valerie required a “zero-risk”policy—the risk had to be eliminated Vaz) when introducing her ten-minute rule Bill, which I —and such an approach is out of step with London am sure she will want to mention? There is a stigma to Underground’s usual policy. epilepsy, but we have to promote the positive fact that London Underground’s equality and inclusion procedure so many people with epilepsy live perfectly normal lives states that employees who develop conditions during which we would all be proud of and happy with. Will their working life must be transferred to a suitable the Minister make a commitment that the disabled position. As a huge public sector employer that has freedom pass and disabled railcard will continue to be signed up to all legislation on equality and equal rights, available to those with epilepsy? Will he reassure anyone London Underground should have made more effort to who is watching that that important support will definitely keep Karen employed, because with a modest amount be kept? of training that support can be provided. Given the Epilepsy constitutes a disability under the Equality risks that London Underground deals with regularly, a Act 2010, and as such, employers are required to make member of staff temporarily struggling to manage a reasonable adjustments so that employees suffering from relatively newly diagnosed but easily treatable condition epilepsy can stay in work. Epileptic episodes are often would seem to be at the lower end of those risks. triggered by work, particularly when an individual is A recent employment appeal tribunal, Dyer v. London working long hours or is otherwise under stress. However, Ambulance NHS Trust, stated that the duty to make people suffering from epilepsy are perfectly able to reasonable adjustments must always be carefully considered, function at the highest levels, and in many cases can and that only in the rarest of cases could no reasonable successfully medicate to reduce or entirely eliminate the adjustments be made. That affirms that even when it 549 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 550

[Kate Hoey] not get through them all. For the Minister, there are co-commissioning concerns. Under the Health and Social comes to epilepsy, the duty to make reasonable adjustments Care Act 2012, the responsibility and budget for specialised could extend to redeployment with the additional support services were brought together in NHS England as the of the Access to Work programme. A lot more must be sole national commissioner of specialised services, but done and London Underground must be put on report. since May 2014, it has U-turned on national commissioning. Instead, the new proposals for co-commissioning would see responsibility for the vast majority of specialised 3.32 pm services shared with local clinical commissioning groups. Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): The Epilepsy Society is opposed to the co-commissioning It is an honour to follow the hon. Member for Vauxhall of specialised epilepsy services for several reasons. NHS (Kate Hoey), and I hope that she obtains justice for her England asserts that national service specifications will constituent. It is also an honour to follow my hon. continue to apply to co-commissioned specialised services, Friend the Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys). but it is uncertain how that will be achieved, given that As I said earlier, she will be a great loss to the House, CCGs are independent bodies. If CCGs are allowed to and I am personally sorry that she is leaving this place reinvest savings from specialised commissioning in other because I think she has added a great dimension to it, areas of their budget, it might create an incentive to particularly on the subject of epilepsy. underspend on specialised services, raising questions I declare an interest because the Epilepsy Society is about the level of investment. There is also evidence based in my constituency and I am proud to be a that CCGs are not in a position to engage with specialised vice-president. It has been working with and for people commissioning in areas such as neurology. For example, affected by epilepsy for 123 years. Although the detail the Minister will know that the Neurological Alliance’s of its aims and objectives have altered over the years, recent report, “The Invisible Patients”, found that only fundamentally it remains true to the vision set out by 26% of CCGs had assessed the prevalence of neurological the group of philanthropists and neurologists who conditions locally and that only 14% had assessed the established it in 1892—to cure, treat and prevent epilepsy. cost of neurological services. It is unique. I also wish to highlight the Epilepsy Society’s opposition At the Epilepsy Society’s Chalfont centre, groundbreaking in principle to the introduction of a marginal rate in epilepsy research laboratories are co-located with England’s specialised commissioning and its concern about the only dedicated epilepsy assessment and treatment centre. lack of clarity in neuroscience specification. There is an Led by medical director Professor Ley Sander and head ongoing lack of clarity over the division of responsibility of genetics Professor Sanjay Sisodiya, some of the between NHS England and CCGs for commissioning world’s pre-eminent epilepsy researchers and clinicians neurological services, and there is continued confusion undertake research and clinical practice at the Chalfont about precisely which services fall under the scope of centre. The Epilepsy Society’s researchers have been specialised commissioning arising from inconsistent central to new scientific discoveries, in particular research statements in the manual for prescribed specialised that demonstrates the breadth of genetic influences in services and the neurosciences service specification. I epilepsy. The society also brings together state-of-the-art hope that the Minister can respond to the society’s diagnostic tools for epilepsy in one place, including the calling on NHS England to clarify this important service UK’s only dedicated epilepsy MRI scanner and a specialised specification to ensure nationally applied standards for epilepsy therapeutic drug monitoring service that is specialised epilepsy services. provided to hospitals across the UK and Europe. I encourage the Minister to improve access to the The Epilepsy Society is also part of a unique three-way Government’s flagship 100,000 Genomes Project. It is partnership with the NHS and with academia—the an exciting development that the Epilepsy Society strongly national hospital for neurology and neurosurgery at supports, but the project’s focus is largely on cancer and University college London—that has the benefit of rare diseases, making it unlikely that more than a handful translating research into clinical practice, providing access of epilepsy genomes will be sequenced as part of the to funding, attracting top researchers and clinicians and groundbreaking initiative, despite the huge potential providing the flexibility to innovate. The partnership that genome sequencing has for transforming epilepsy. I has been recognised by the World Health Organisation. would like to see the Government continue to invest in genetics research and its translation into clinical practice Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): My right hon. Friend and to ensure that it benefits patients with epilepsy, but has taught me something today—I did not know that I would particularly like to see the genome project my constituency was adjacent to such a fantastic centre. embrace epilepsy. Will she confirm that it is a national centre serving a The need to reform the current system for accessing population wider than just our constituencies? effective medicines will become ever more important in the context of increasing the availability of personalised Mrs Gillan: That is absolutely right—it is a national medicines. I have been working locally with Daiichi centre. Sankyo on patient access to novel oral anticoagulants, Under our new chair, Helen Pernelet, and the new and there is a gap that the Department of Health needs chief executive, Angela Geer, the Epilepsy Society has to address across the board. an ambitious new vision to leverage its medical research In my remaining minutes, I would like to draw attention strength to revolutionise how epilepsy is diagnosed to the issue of laser ablation surgery. I have recently and treated. Of course, there are issues facing the dealt with a distressing case of a constituent who sadly society’s specialised medical and research facilities, but lost a family member to epilepsy.The constituent expressed sadly, with only eight minutes in which to speak, I might great distress that a surgical treatment known as laser 551 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 552 ablation therapy had not been made available to her The use of anti-epileptic drugs can present women and her child as a treatment option. Laser ablation is a with various problems before conception and during relatively new surgical technique that burns away accurately pregnancy. National guidelines indicate that women of targeted tissue with a surgical laser. The technique is child-bearing age with epilepsy should be made aware much less invasive than traditional brain surgery, and of the impact their medication could have on their enables surgeons to operate deeper in the brain. It is unborn baby. While GPs should be highlighting these also much more accurate and carries fewer risks of risks, the provision of this specialised care and information complication. Laser ablation can be a good choice for is variable at best and non-existent at worst—and this patients who have few other treatment options either despite the fact that in 2012 the National Institute for because medication does not control their seizures or Health and Care Excellence recommended a new indicator because the lesions in their brain that cause their epilepsy to encourage GPs to tell girls and women of child-bearing are deep and hard to reach using open brain surgery. age about the risks posed by anti-epileptic drugs. Sodium A significant minority of epilepsy patients—approximately valproate was specifically named as a drug that should 12,500 in the UK—would benefit from surgical treatment, be discussed. Is the Minister concerned that this information including laser-guided surgery. In around 60% of these is not widely distributed, and what steps will the Department cases, surgery can be curative. Evidence shows that it of Health take to ensure this is remedied as a matter of also contributes to reducing premature mortality in epilepsy. urgency? Sadly, despite these benefits, only around 300 patients a Sodium valproate is considered to be one of the most year are currently given this treatment. I think that the effective drugs for controlling epileptic seizures, but it Department of Health should urgently review the number has been found to increase the risk of babies being born of patients with access to neuro-surgery each year, with cleft palates and spina bifida. It is also associated particularly surgery that uses the new and less invasive with a very high risk of major malformations and techniques such as laser ablation. neuro-developmental impairment. Despite that, a survey Finally, I mentioned the connection with autism, to found that 25% of mothers were unaware of the risks, which my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet which is unacceptable and unjustifiable. If we know responded during her opening speech. It is obvious that that the medication can cause so much harm—it is also although we have made great strides on epilepsy since prescribed for women who do not have epilepsy, to treat the days when epileptics were not allowed to marry, we other conditions—why are women not being widely still have a long way to go. I hope that the Minister will warned of its potential dangers? I accept that it is respond positively to the questions raised on both sides important to control epileptic seizures during pregnancy, of the House about the future of epilepsy in the hands but given that anti-epilepsy drugs increase the risk of of the NHS. foetal malformations, delayed development and foetal and maternal death, women with epilepsy are in an impossible position. They must either continue to take 3.41 pm the drugs or risk seizures, both of which pose an increased risk to the mother and the foetus. Pregnant women who Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab): First, abandon their medication are at an increased risk of I congratulate the hon. Member for South Thanet developing uncontrolled seizures, which can be fatal. (Laura Sandys) on securing this debate and on continuing About four women with epilepsy die during pregnancy to raise awareness of epilepsy. Although we are on each year, but those deaths could possibly be avoided if opposite sides of the Chamber, I am sad that she is the right support were provided. leaving this place after May, as the work she has undertaken on behalf of people with epilepsy is much respected I am sure that we will talk a great deal about numbers both within and outside this House. and statistics this afternoon, but let me put into context the way in which epilepsy affects people. I know a Epilepsy is a life-threatening, neurological condition woman who, at the age of 15, began to have night that can strike anybody at any age without warning. seizures in her sleep. She was diagnosed with epilepsy However, being a woman with epilepsy is not the same and was prescribed sodium valproate. Eleven years later as being a man with epilepsy. Epilepsy and its treatment she married, and she and her husband decided that they can affect sexual development, menstrual cycles, wanted children. In 2007, having done some research contraception, fertility and reproduction. That is why I and understanding the risk that sodium valproate would am taking the opportunity today to talk about the pose to her baby, she changed her drug. There followed, urgent need to improve the support and advice available from 2008, a terrifying five years of daytime seizures to women of child-bearing age who have epilepsy. In she had never had to deal with before. Her previous particular, I would like to highlight the importance of seizures had always taken place while she was asleep, enabling women to make informed choices about their and she had been seizure-free for 12 years. drug treatments. The woman was now afraid to go out. She was afraid Approximately 139,000 women of child-bearing age to get on a bus, and she was afraid to go to work. She have epilepsy, and around 2,400 babies are born each was a teacher of primary school children, and she was year to mothers taking these anti-epileptic drugs yet terrified of having a seizure in front of them, because women with epilepsy remain uninformed about their they would not know what to do. But the bitterest pill of choices and medication. They lack the specialised care all was finding that, either because of the increased and support they need, and they are at increased risk of seizures or because of the new drugs, she was no longer maternal death. Given the repeated concerns raised ovulating. She had to choose between taking a drug over decades about sodium valproate and its links to the that would stop the seizures but might pose a risk to the development of birth defects and foetal anti-convulsant baby, and taking a different drug, having the seizures syndrome, commonly known as FACS, this is nothing and risking her fertility. That is a very difficult position short of a scandal. for women to be in, and they need advice. 553 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 554

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman In particular, I have worked with Janet Williams and Lamb): I take this issue extremely seriously. There has Emma Murphy, who run IN-FACT, the Independent been an EU-wide review of the risks involved. The Foetal Anti-Convulsant Trust, and I respect and admire Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency them for their relentless commitment and dedication to issued new guidance in January, and the British National raising awareness of this issue. I first met them just after Formulary has also been updated. The Department is I entered the House in 2010, when families were devastated considering the introduction of a “red flag” system to following the withdrawal of legal aid case for a class notify GPs of the risks posed to women of child-bearing action against the manufacturers of the drug. After six age, and I personally am very keen to introduce such a years of preparation, that trial did not go ahead. I system. tabled an early-day motion, signed by 82 MPs, urging the Legal Services Commission to reconsider, but it did Teresa Pearce: I know that the Minister has met not. Last year, I wrote to the Department of Health to some of the mothers involved, and I am very grateful ask whether compensation would be available. I received for that. a response from the Under-Secretary of State for Health, Women such as the one I have just mentioned are in the hon. Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman), desperate need of specialised guidance and support who is responsible for life sciences. He said: from their GPs, but there is no such support at present. “Compensation for people who believe they have been adversely GPs should be providing pre-conception counselling affected by a particular drug is a matter for the judicial system”. and tailored advice, but they do not appear to be taking I also received one from the Minister of State, Department that responsibility seriously. In 2012, a survey by Epilepsy of Health, the right hon. Member for North Norfolk Action revealed that 26% of women who had been (Norman Lamb), who is responsible for care and support, pregnant in the last five years, or were planning to who said: become pregnant, had never received counselling. That “it would be inappropriate for ministers to intervene in or comment puts women and unborn babies at risk. on matters which must remain for the judicial system.” Pre-conception counselling should be fully embedded The fact is that these families have sought justice and in the care pathway of all women with epilepsy and done everything they can, but they have been denied child-bearing potential, and there should be a specialist support and denied justice. Will the Government act? care pathway for all women with epilepsy to ensure that their pregnancies are flagged as potentially high risk. 3.51 pm Every such woman should receive regular input from an epilepsy specialist and an obstetrician, and any Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): I ask the Government breakthrough or worsening of seizures should be to take a close interest in the case of my constituent investigated as a matter of urgency. Will the Minister Jessica Monks, which I shall relate from the perspective tell me what funding, training and planning are needed of her parents. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the to implement those steps? Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) for creating the opportunity for me to do so and for giving me the The co-operation of GPs and health care professionals opportunity to inform myself about this important is crucial to ensuring that any strategy actually works. I issue. I have been astonished by what I have learned. welcomed the stronger guidance that was released in January by the Medicines and Healthcare Products I am glad to follow the hon. Member for Erith and Regulatory Agency. It states that sodium valproate should Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce). As she will learn, I too not be prescribed to female children, female adolescents, will talk about issues of consent towards the end of my women of child-bearing potential or pregnant women speech. It was shocking to hear what she set out about unless other treatments are ineffective or not tolerated. consent. As the Minister said, the guidance followed a Europe-wide Jessica Monks was not just a cheerful but a positively review. What steps will the Department take to ensure joyful young woman. Her life and her untimely death that it is fully implemented? Every woman taking an are a case study in what can go badly wrong and what anticonvulsant has the right to an informed choice, but ought to be done. Jessica was born on 7 February 1996 we know that information on the effects of sodium and lived in Medmenham in my constituency. She suffered valproate on pregnancy was withheld from female patients from epilepsy and was under the care of the neurology in 1972. Following the European review in 2014, why department of the John Radcliffe hospital in Oxford. I has providing information to female patients not been understand that she was learning to live very well with made a mandatory action? her condition. At this moment, the picture is bleak. A recent report Jessica died by suicide on Saturday 24 January 2015 entitled “Saving Mothers’ Lives” highlighted the failure as a result of a psychotic episode related to the epilepsy to reduce maternal deaths from epilepsy over the past medication she was taking. She had been taking Zonisamide two years. If women with epilepsy were provided with since about November 2013, but her seizures had not support and health care tailored to their specific condition, stopped. Her neurologist told her parents to keep an eye it is likely that the number of maternal deaths would be on her moods and to make an appointment with him reduced. The science is available to ensure that women immediately if her moods changed in any way. with epilepsy can have successful pregnancies with the Over Christmas 2014, Jessica, usually a joyful young right support, but that must be universally available to woman, became noticeably low and withdrawn, very all women with epilepsy since simple measures can unlike her usual buoyant self. As requested, Mr and decrease the risks associated with epilepsy in pregnancy. Mrs Monks attempted to make an appointment for I have worked closely with women whose children have Jessica to see her neurologist about her changing moods suffered from FACS and families who have been affected in early January, but despite several phone calls they did by the lack of information. not receive a response. Her parents were concerned 555 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 556 about her deteriorating mood so they made an appointment and to the ombudsman, because we are looking into with her GP, who saw her on 8 January. The GP agreed how complaints are dealt with and how we can learn for that her mood had deteriorated but, crucially, felt that it the future from such tragic experiences? was important to speak to her neurologist before prescribing any medication to help her mood improve. Steve Baker: I am extremely grateful to my right hon. On Friday 9 January, Jessica was admitted to Wexham Friend. I have already passed the details to the Minister. Park hospital after taking an overdose of Zonisamide, I am aware of the inquest and the NHS investigation, oxcarbazepine and paracetamol. She was seen by a but I will certainly take her advice and give those other junior psychiatric nurse, and I am surprised that it was a bodies the opportunity to investigate. nurse. I am sure that they do a wonderful job, but I That brings me on to the specific issue of consent. I would have thought that in such circumstances a consultant have spoken to Mr and Mrs Monks today and they say would have been appropriate. However, the nurse deemed that at no point was it explained to them that this her fit for discharge. Following a further attempted medication could have these side effects. Jessica was 17 suicide on Monday 12 January, Jessica’s parents made when she started taking it, and I feel that that possibility another appointment to see her GP who again really should have been explained to her parents. They recommended that Jessica be prescribed an antidepressant should have had the opportunity to take very strong but felt unable to do so until she had spoken to her action. Of course, they did take very strong action—they neurologist. The GP did arrange an urgent psychiatric took the strongest action they could—and it seems to appointment for Jessica and, thankfully, the psychiatrist me, without wishing to pass judgment, that the key phoned that evening to make an appointment and offer problem was that they could not get hold of the neurologist. out-of-hours support. At the psychiatric appointment on 22 January, Jessica Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I am puzzled was diagnosed as suffering from a psychotic episode that the instructions that came with the medication did and was instructed to stop taking the anti-depressants not include a warning that if someone had those sorts immediately. The psychiatrist was concerned that the of side effects, they should cease taking it. drug Jessica was taking was causing this psychotic side effect—which is, by the way, well known—and said she Steve Baker: I am a layman, but one of the things I would speak to the neurologist that evening to discuss have learned today is that one cannot simply cease whether Jessica should cease taking the epilepsy drug taking medication for epilepsy, so specialist advice is Zonisamide. required. On Saturday 24 January, Jessica died when she stepped in front of an oncoming train. Laura Sandys indicated assent. Norman Lamb: My hon. Friend is talking about a Steve Baker: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for tragic case and I cannot begin to imagine what the acknowledging that. Put simply, it seems that the epilepsy family have been through. I am very happy to meet him medication, which was necessary, caused psychotic side to discuss further what lessons can be learned. effects, which were exacerbated by anti-depressants that were prescribed with the best intentions. Jessica therefore Steve Baker: I am extremely grateful to my right hon. spiralled into the situation that tragically led to her Friend. death. Mr and Mrs Monks feel that there was a significant I would like to finish with a few words from Jessica’s breakdown in the care of their daughter, and I certainly parents, who have written to me: agree with them. The speed and severity with which her “The sudden and tragic death of our otherwise healthy and mental health deteriorated due to her epilepsy medication happy teenage daughter has caused devastation throughout our were not considered a priority—they were not adequately family and local community. We strongly feel that this situation prioritised—and they feel they have been badly let down could have been avoided if we were given the correct advice and by the medical professionals they saw in the days leading prompt treatment and are committed to ensuring the same mistake up to Jessica’s death. does not happen to another epilepsy patient.” Jessica’s death was apparently avoidable. We need to Susan and Steven Monks have been robbed of their know why it was not avoided. There are a number of daughter and of all the future opportunities, hopes and questions to be answered by the NHS and the investigation dreams for which she stood. They deserve to know why is ongoing, as, indeed, is the coroner’s inquest. I contacted and what will be done about it. the coroner before raising this case and they were content for me to do so. I will not run through all the questions, 3.59 pm some of which are apparent, but I should like to ask in particular why was the consultant neurologist not more Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): It is a pleasure to available? Why, when it is well known, as the Library follow the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker). I brief explains, that some of this medication can cause am sure I speak on behalf of all hon. Members in these side effects, was more immediate, perhaps telephone, asking him to pass on the sympathy of the House to his support not available in the event of an episode? constituents, whose case he has so ably put forward. I start by paying tribute to the hon. Member for Mrs Gillan: Among other things, I sit on the Public South Thanet (Laura Sandys) for her work as chair of Administration Committee and we are responsible for the all-party parliamentary group on epilepsy, and for the health ombudsman. Will my hon. Friend make sure fulfilling her final task of securing this debate before that the details of this case are passed to the Committee leaving the House. She will be sadly missed; we shall 557 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 558

[Valerie Vaz] Epilepsy Action and YoungEpilepsy. Epilepsy12’s report revealed variations in the level of care and available also miss her enthusiasm and her commitment to epilepsy resources such as the specialist nurses and clinics that and to her constituents, for whom she has been an are needed to provide care across the United Kingdom. assiduous MP. Amazingly, it also found that some services were not even meeting NICE guidelines. In a later report, published Laura Sandys: I am absolutely thrilled that the all-party in 2014, Epilepsy12 said that some progress had been group’s chairmanship has been handed to my hon. made, and that two thirds of units had specialised Friend the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), epilepsy nurses and more clinics were being held. However, who I know will put a huge amount of passion and only two in every three units reported holding a weekly energy into continuing the fight and ensuring that the epilepsy clinic just for children and young people. voice of those with epilepsy is very much heard. The way in which young people are treated is important because it effects their education as well as their lifestyle. Valerie Vaz: I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I hope to A three-year population-based study by Children with be as good as her, but I am not sure that I will be. Epilepsy in Sussex Schools—CHESS—found that 95% This is a timely debate, in that it comes between two of the children affected had difficulty in at least one of important dates. The World Health Organisation adopted the assessed areas and that most of the children had a resolution on 2 February this year, and world epilepsy several problems. The CHESS study found that 60% of day is on 26 March, when we are all urged to “colour it the children met the diagnostic criteria for at least one purple”. It is just an accident that I happen to be wearing behaviour or motor disorder, but only one third had purple today. This debate is taking place 12 days after previously been diagnosed. We have heard about the 14 February, and most people probably know that difficulties that children on anti-epileptic drugs have. A St Valentine is the patron saint of epilepsy. The WHO study by the Epilepsy Society showed that AED drugs launched a campaign on 9 February to improve the have a detrimental impact on processing speed and epilepsy treatment gap and it urged member states to memory work. look into the matter. It set out a number of clauses, and On the transition period, Epilepsy12 found that there I shall mention just a few of them. Member states were were inadequate services and transition arrangements urged: to ensure public awareness of and education for young people. So more attention needs to be given about epilepsy; to integrate epilepsy management; and to handover clinics, which could comprise both adult to introduce and implement national health care plans and paediatric health professionals. The loss of the of action for epilepsy management. There are many continuity of care at transition needs to be addressed to more clauses and I urge hon. Members to look at them. ensure that new relationships with the clinicians are A number of excellent reports have been published established. recently and I will touch on those in a moment. Let me now discuss adults. The report by Epilepsy Action on clinical commissioning groups and commissioning I want to deal with three different stages of services: in November 2014 found that only three out of 140 health those for young people; the transition from young person and wellbeing boards are making plans for people with to adult; and adult services. Here are some background epilepsy. Some 78% of CCGs have not developed and facts. The brain is the most complex organ in the body do not intend to develop a written needs assessment for with more than 100 billion neurones passing messages people with epilepsy—that must change. Evidence also around it. The vast majority of the brain’s activities are shows that people with epilepsy have poor access to subconscious. Epilepsy is a life-threatening neurological epilepsy specialists and epilepsy specialist nurses, and condition that can affect anybody at any age without do not have regular reviews of their epilepsy. My hon. warning. There are 40 different types of epilepsy and at Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) was kind least 40 different types of seizure, and 87 people are enough to mention my ten-minute rule Bill, in which I diagnosed with the condition every day. Epilepsy now called for direct referrals to a tertiary specialist: That accounts for more deaths than cervical cancer and is has not been taken up yet, so we need to have referrals among the top 10 causes of amenable deaths. from a GP specialist to a tertiary specialist without the I want to turn first to young people. The report need to go through a generalist consultant. “Improving epilepsy care for children and young people”, The sudden unexpected death in epilepsy is an important published by YoungEpilepsy, University college London issue, as was highlighted by SUDEP Action. The national and Whittington Health highlighted unacceptable levels sentinel audit of epilepsy deaths in 2002 found that 42% of misdiagnosis, inadequate communication, a variation of such deaths were potentially avoidable. Brain surgery in care and a fragmentation of services. There are is another area where there is a lack of availability, with 112,000 children and young people who have epilepsy, only 300 operations being carried out on adults each which is one in every 200. The report made seven year. It is estimated that approximately 5,000 adults recommendations. They include creating an individual could and should benefit from the only cure there is for plan for every child and young person—as one parent their epilepsy. I also wish to add my voice to those of has said, a one-size-fits-all approach is wrong; designing other hon. Members on the outrage at the sacking of a year-of-care tariff for epilepsies; and creating an audit the young person at London Underground. and annual review of relevant outcomes for each child But there is hope for the future. The Epilepsy Society and young person. Dr Amit Bali, who was involved in is undertaking active research. Its report highlighted a producing the report, has said that only small steps have number of firsts, such as the first brain and tissue bank been taken in areas that require big leaps forward. for epilepsy. It has created the first multilingual digital I was at the launch of Epilepsy12 at the Royal College information resources for epilepsy, and it hopes to unravel of Paediatrics and Child Health a few years ago. A the genetic architecture of the epilepsies and bring new number of charities were also involved in that, including hope for people with the condition. We should consider 559 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 560 ourselves lucky in this country, because not only do we 100 yards over the border in the constituency of my have committed practitioners who are desperate to help hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew). their patients, but we have areas where pioneering work We share Yeadon, but we are both proud that this is going on, such as that being done by Professor Cross, wonderful national charity is based in Yeadon in north who has pioneered the ketogenic diet. In the US, until Leeds. I will not repeat the findings of its powerful there was “Obamacare” those with epilepsy could not survey, except to reiterate one figure. Of the clinical be covered by insurance because they had a pre-existing commissioning groups that responded, 70% said that condition. We take all that for granted, which is why they had not produced and had no plans to develop a this debate fulfils the important role of highlighting written needs assessment of the health and social care awareness of this condition. needs for epilepsy. That is simply not good enough and Hon. Members will remember the drama “The Promise”, it has to change, and quickly. I urge my hon. Friend the where the lead character, Erin, not only was a heroine, Minister in the time that he has remaining to make it but had epilepsy, which was incidental to her life: Its clear that that is not acceptable and must change. writer, Peter Kosminsky, lately the director of “Wolf Every health and wellbeing board must know how Hall”, said that he wanted to show someone being brave many people in their area have epilepsy and develop an and getting on with her life without letting her epilepsy epilepsy section for their joint strategic needs assessment, circumscribe her actions, in the hope of de-stigmatising and that should include information about current local the condition. On de-stigmatising, let us also not forget provision and services and future needs. Health and the roll call of creative successful people who have or wellbeing boards must also work with their local CCGs have had the condition: musicians Neil Young and to ensure that adults and children in their area experience Prince; and the writers Dostoevsky; Charles Dickens a joined-up approach to their epilepsy health care needs. and Lord Byron. I hope we have today brought epilepsy Every local authority scrutiny board with responsibility out of the shadows of stigma and discrimination, and for health must consider whether their JSNA adequately into the spotlight of knowledge, awareness and hope for meets the needs of adults and children with epilepsy in the future. their local area. I am delighted to tell my right hon. Friend the Minister Several hon. Members rose— that the Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS trust—this is Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo): not me saying it, but my constituents and practitioners Order. We are running out of time for this debate. I tell me—is one of the best trusts in the country for want to be fair to all Members, so I am reducing the supporting those who have epilepsy. We are proud of time limit to seven minutes. If there are not too many that. The trust has a team providing specialist epilepsy interventions, it will not be necessary to reduce it further. care and advice for people in Leeds and the wider Yorkshire region, and as well as the medical treatment of epilepsy 4.9 pm it runs an epilepsy surgery pathway for people with difficult-to-treat epilepsy. It has specialist brain tumour Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): I start by and vagal nerve stimulation clinics. I hope that my right congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for South hon. Friend will join me in recognising that Leeds is a Thanet (Laura Sandys) and my right hon. Friend the centre of excellence for epilepsy. If, in the remaining five Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) on weeks while he is definitely in this particular job he has securing this important debate and giving us all the the time to come and visit to meet some of the people opportunity to contribute on behalf of our constituents. involved, I would find time in my diary to join him. I particularly thank my hon. Friend for bringing her Like many other Members, I have learned from my experience and for what she has done during her time constituents about epilepsy. My constituent Dominic here, and I echo the sentiment that it is a shame she will Ware and his parents Vic and Carol have given me their not be coming back to carry that on. Other people will permission to pass on some of what I have learned from have to do that, and I am sure right hon. and hon. them. My constituent Andy Cavadino also has epilepsy. Members will do that here. They have enabled me to see both the good and the It is important to start by saying that my right hon. issues that need dealing with. Friend the Minister of State, Department of Health has Andy Cavadino’s epilepsy developed over 10 years taken a real interest in epilepsy and that he and his after a serious head injury. The two main issues affecting colleagues have introduced significant improvements in him relate to driving and to medication. As a teacher, he this Parliament. Equally, the NHS Commissioning Board’s finds it frustrating that he is allowed to drive a people decision to introduce a national clinical director for carrier but not a minibus. He wants there to be a much neurological conditions, Dr David Bateman, has been more transparent discussion about what vehicles can positive in ensuring that epilepsy is on the agenda at the and should be driven by people with epilepsy. The most senior level in the NHS. second issue that he raises has already been covered by In February 2013 we saw the publication of the other hon. Members. People have an attitude to those NICE new quality standards for children and adults with epilepsy; they are often nervous and on edge with epilepsy. I also welcome cross-departmental working, around people with epilepsy. As Andy told me, people and the fact that the Department for Education is sometimes say, “Take it easy.”We need to raise awareness looking at better support for pupils in school diagnosed that people with epilepsy are generally on medication, if with epilepsy. There is still a lot to do, and still too much they need to be, and that that is helpful. We must do of a sense that care is good in some areas and poor in more to fight the sense of concern, paranoia and stigma others; that has to be a priority for the next Government. that is attached to people such as Andy. I am proud that Epilepsy Action, an excellent Dominic Ware’s epilepsy has been a huge part of his organisation, is based in Leeds. Its headquarters are in life and that of his parents, Vic and Carol. It is something Yeadon, an area that I represent. The office is about that they have to cope with. The care that Dominic has 561 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 562

[Greg Mulholland] My constituent, who has asked to be named, Mr Adam Lane, who lives in Huyton, said: received in Leeds has saved his life and now enables him “In regard to my DLA claim I had to go through 6 months to lead a normal life, which is precisely what needs to with no money for myself, my wife and my two-year-old son. At happen. However, they and especially Vic, who is a that time we had to live on £50 a week until I went to a tribunal passionate campaigner, know that for too many people, and won. Now I have to go through the whole process again on that is not the case. During the debate, we have heard of 13th of March for PIP. I have a letter from my epilepsy doctor people who, unlike Dominic, have been failed, often stating how bad my epilepsy is. I fall and convulse without warning and have seriously damaged my knee, and have panic with devastating effects, and that is simply not acceptable. attacks throughout the whole experience. My seizures are occurring Will my right hon. Friend the Minister support Vic’s every week now and are very serious and now I suffer with call that whoever forms the next Government should migraines where I vomit 14 hours a day and I’m confined to bed appoint an epilepsy champion in the Department of through the process for 2 weeks at a time. I’m hoping Atos will Health to bring things together so that there is a single, not brush me off like last time, hoping to appease Government strong voice in government to push the issue forward? numbers to get people off benefits. I feel I am in need of benefits. I cannot work with my health conditions. My wife is my carer 24/7. My son has been traumatised though watching my seizures. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo): I’m hoping my Atos interviewer sees what is in front of their eyes Order. and not what the Government want them to see and say. Please, for others out there like me, let there be a way for people who do not abuse the system to be given a fairer crack of claiming what is 4.15 pm deservedly theirs. Thank you.” Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): I add my I thought it was worth reading that out in full because thanks to the hon. Member for South Thanet (Laura it gives a very clear picture of how this man has had to Sandys) for giving us the opportunity to debate this struggle to keep his family together and to support them important issue. I wholeheartedly endorse hon. Members’ in extremely difficult circumstances, where the benefits comments that she will be missed in the House. Her system seems to mount up against him to prevent him speech was not only informative but unique, because in having any kind of reasonable life. I hope that such the many years I have been in the House, I have never cases—there are many more of them out there—give before heard a Member declare themselves to be both a the Government cause to think again about how people law-maker and a law-breaker. Even more alarmingly, with chronic conditions are dealt with in the benefits she declared her intention to become a repeat offender. system. Her speech was also unique in that it brought before the House the experience of people who suffer this condition, 4.21 pm and she gave us the opportunity to understand more Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con): The whole about its dimensions. House was moved by the speech of my hon. Friend the I need to say a word about the speech made by the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker). The pain of losing hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker), in which he a child under such circumstances is unimaginable. described a tragic case. Anyone who has experienced My hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet (Laura the loss of a child knows exactly the depths of misery Sandys) started her speech by beating herself up because that the people concerned will have experienced. The she did not feel that she had done enough to raise the hon. Gentleman dealt with a difficult subject in not profile of epilepsy. Nothing could be further from the only a suitably moving way, but with great dignity, and truth. She has done a magnificent job, and she made my I, too, pass on my sincere condolences to the family. day with her invitation to colleagues to come up with ideas about how she should break the law as an epileptic. Steve Baker: I am extremely grateful for the right When she gets back to her room later, she will find that hon. Gentleman’s kind words. I know that the family she is inundated with suggestions. I, like others, am very have heard him and will also be grateful. sorry that she has chosen not to stand in the next election. I hope to God that she is replaced by someone Mr Howarth: The hon. Gentleman’s speech highlighted with the good common sense and judgment that she has a more general point about how chronic conditions are shown throughout her time as a Member. dealt with. I have some knowledge of type 1 diabetes. Epilepsy is a potentially life-threatening neurological When someone with that condition reaches a crisis, condition, as other speakers have said. It affects the whether that is a psychological crisis or something that lives of nearly 500,000 people in England alone. It can should be dealt with by a diabetologist, they cannot reduce life expectancy by up to 10 years and can leave always get to see the right people at the right time so people unfit to work, as we have heard. Among other that they can get the right support, prescription or consequences, epilepsy affects children’s performance at advice. Brilliant though our national health service is, school owing to seizures. Nearly half of the number of that is one aspect that all too often breaks down, so deaths from epilepsy can be avoided. In the constituency I hope that the Minister will address that problem. that I represent, there are an estimated 865 people I want to concentrate on a particular issue, which I suffering from epilepsy. This figure increases to 13,600 for do not think has been mentioned, about which one of the county of Essex. my constituents has contacted me: how the benefits What are the local CCGs doing to assist people system makes life very difficult indeed for those people with epilepsy in the area that I represent? I am afraid to who find themselves on benefits. No doubt the Minister tell the House that the answer is not enough. Clinical will not be able to respond to my points, but I hope that commissioning groups have a very important role he will pass them on to his colleagues in the relevant to play. They have a strategic influence and make Department. commissioning decisions that impact on the lives of an 563 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 564 average of 2,370 epilepsy sufferers in each CCG area. I In conclusion, I think that there is a role for the have recently been in contact with Epilepsy Action Government to play. We need more funds to be invested which—I agree with others—is doing a wonderful job in medical research to ensure that more people with in raising awareness of the problems faced by people epilepsy can access effective treatments. Southend residents with epilepsy. I was shocked to hear that my local suffering from epilepsy should not be denied access to Southend CCG has no plans to produce a written needs the various treatment I mentioned earlier. For too long assessment of the health and social care needs of people epilepsy has been forgotten when it comes to funding with neurological conditions; has no plans to produce a and the variety of treatments available. It is time for the written needs assessment of the health and social care Government to hold CCGs to account to ensure that needs of people with epilepsy; has not identified neurology due gravity is given to this very serious condition. As or epilepsy as an improvement and saving opportunity; my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet passes has not identified neurology as a priority for the local the baton to the hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie health and wellbeing board; and has not appointed a Vaz), I hope that in the next Parliament, whoever forms clinical lead for neurology. That is simply not good the next Government, we will do our very best to enough. provide the best possible treatment for those who suffer Southend West has a higher than average number of from epilepsy. people with epilepsy, because of its high age profile. The correct ratio for specialised epilepsy nurses to patients is 4.28 pm 1:300. The specialist nurse at Southend hospital is currently looking after more than 1,000 patients, which is absolutely Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): I, too, ridiculous. That has to change. More specialist epilepsy congratulate the hon. Member for South Thanet (Laura nurse posts must be created before any improvements Sandys) and the right hon. Member for Chesham and can be felt by my local residents. I fully accept that it is a Amersham (Mrs Gillan) on securing this important country-wide problem, but it is very frustrating that debate. In common with many other Members, I would most CCGs do not understand the needs of people with like personally to thank the hon. Member for South epilepsy. Thanet for the excellent work she has done. She might not thank me for a glowing tribute, given that I am on I am in regular contact with the South East Essex the left of the party, but I think that she is a thoroughly Epilepsy Support Group, which is superbly led by its decent MP who does an excellent job. She will be sadly chairman, Mrs Diane Blake-Lawson. It is a wonderful missed. I am perhaps a less active member of the source of information and support for epilepsy sufferers all-party group on epilepsy, but I am a member of many in the area I represent. I hear about all sorts of obstacles other all-party groups, particularly those on health and faced by people with epilepsy. Very often local residents cancer. This is a very timely debate. It is thanks once are diagnosed and then they and their families are left again to the Backbench Business Committee that we without any medical guidance or support, and we heard have been afforded this opportunity to raise awareness a little about that earlier. I was particularly upset to of this important and often misunderstood condition. hear that Southend hospital has on a number of occasions refused MRI scans and other medical examinations. In a previous role—I was not double-jobbing, I might add—I worked in the national health service in an I have received complaints regarding the prescription analytical chemistry lab where I used to do tests on of generic drugs, despite evidence suggesting that their anti-epileptic drugs using gas chromatography techniques, use leads to an increased risk of seizures. Even more so I know a little bit about the chemistry but not so alarmingly, I was informed that the latest drugs are not much about the clinical manifestations and symptoms. I made available to patients, as older and less effective pay tribute to the tremendous and powerful speech by drugs are cheaper to use. That is just not acceptable. the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker), which Local residents often get caught up in a confusing really brought home the potential risks of this condition situation where the hospital says that they should speak if left unregulated. It is one of the most common to their GPs first, but once they contact their GPs there neurological conditions in the United Kingdom. As the seems to be a reluctance to give any advice and they are hon. Member for South Thanet said, 500,000 people in told to turn to neurologists instead. There is clearly a the UK, or one in 100, have the condition. That is a lack of GP training in epilepsy. considerable number of people. As I think we are all Nationally, only 20% of people with epilepsy who are aware by now, epilepsy is not one condition but a referred to see a specialist are seen within the NICE- composite. Other Members have mentioned the suspected recommended waiting time. Even worse, there is an 18% link with autism. There are about 40 different types of gap in the treatment of epilepsy, meaning that 18% of seizure and perhaps as many as 50 different syndromes people with epilepsy who could attain seizure-freedom with various degrees of severity and complexity. However, experience seizures unnecessarily due to a lack of with the right treatment, the right medication and the appropriate treatment. right support, there is no reason why someone suffering I want to touch on the issue of benefits, which the from epilepsy cannot lead a full and active life, as the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth) also hon. Lady so ably explained. raised, because a number of people are adversely affected Many Members have talked about access to medical by the present situation. As we all know, the process of care and stigma, but I want to stress another aspect—the claiming benefits can be lengthy and stressful, which in discrimination that can be faced by those with epilepsy, turn can aggravate the psychological symptoms as well creating barriers to education, and, more particularly, as the frequency and severity of seizures. What I am to employment. A report published by Young Epilepsy most concerned about is the ability of benefit medical found that three quarters of people with epilepsy have assessors—they are rarely doctors—to recognise and experienced discrimination due to their condition. This appreciate the severity of epilepsy. situation was reaffirmed by work commissioned by the 565 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 566

[Grahame M. Morris] epilepsy-related deaths, and most shockingly of all—this was mentioned by the hon. Member for Walsall South disabilities charity, Quarriers, which found that more (Valerie Vaz)—42% of those deaths are preventable, in than two thirds of people with epilepsy admit that they many cases with little more than good communication. worry what members of the public would say or do if The debate is all the more shocking and upsetting for they had a seizure, with over a third expressing concern me because of the case of Emily Sumaria. Emily went that having a seizure in public has led to anxiety about to my junior school in Cheltenham, and attended the whether to leave the house, even, let alone take up secondary school of the right hon. Member for Chesham employment. In relation to employment, more than and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), Cheltenham Ladies college. seven in 10—72%—stated that their condition had an From there, she did work experience in Parliament with impact on their career progression and choice, with me for several weeks. I remember her as a brilliant more than two fifths avoiding even telling people about young woman who had the kind of smile that lights up their epilepsy. a room. Her mum, Rachel, describes her as There are protections in place for those looking for “a bright, beautiful and funny girl with her whole life ahead of work and for those who are in work, but I am concerned her. Her epilepsy was totally under control and she lived a that these duties and obligations are not being met by perfectly normal life.” employers. Equality laws make it illegal for employers Indeed, I had no idea she was epileptic. She went on to to treat people with epilepsy unfairly, and protection get four good A-levels and then started at Leeds university, must be provided against bullying and harassment due but she never graduated. to their condition. Employers also have a duty to make reasonable adjustments to help people with epilepsy to On 4 December 2012, Emily was found dead in her get into work, or stay there, and to prevent them from bed by her university housemates. Her mum says: being at a substantial disadvantage. However, we have “Neither she nor I were ever told about the possibility of dying found that people with epilepsy have been shown to be and had never heard of SUDEP”— twice as likely to be at risk of unemployment as those sudden unexpected death in epilepsy. The explanation without the condition. was tragically simple: Emily’s university GP practice The case of Karen Guyott, which was mentioned by prescribed the wrong dosage of her medication when my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey), she moved from her home GP, which meant that when has been drawn to my attention before. To comply with she missed one day of her tablets, she did not have the instructions from yesterday, I am, as it says in my enough in her bloodstream to prevent her from having a entry on page 205 of the Register of Members’ Financial seizure. That one and only seizure, after almost two Interests, a member of the RMT parliamentary group, years, killed her. Rachel says: although it is unremunerated and the RMT is not “Knowledge is power and maybe if Emily or I had known affiliated to my party. It is important that we speak in about SUDEP then we could have taken additional steps to this House on behalf of working people, and charities, minimise her risk. This totally avoidable death has had devastating and raise legitimate concerns. That example of someone effects on a huge number of people. The ripple effect of Emily’s losing her job is an important test case because, as my death has been enormous.” hon. Friend said, London Underground did not provide SUDEP Action, the charity which looks into sudden the training or support required. unexpected death in epilepsy, states that being I only have a little time left, so I want to put this to “open and honest with patients about their level of risk, allows the Minister, who I know is a decent and reasonable them to make educated choices as to their ongoing care and man: at the conclusion of the debate, I hope that he will management”, make it clear that it is unacceptable to discriminate but that GPs in primary care lack confidence with against someone due to their having epilepsy. I hope epilepsy, and that even specialist services “do not routinely that he will support people, such as Karen, who are discuss” with patients the level of risk and much more fighting blatant discrimination. Will he agree to raise serious risks of which some of them may not be aware. her case with the Mayor, because Transport for London One of the families who contacted SUDEP Action said: comes under the Mayor’s auspices? TfL is a significant public sector employer, and we want it to be an example “There is nothing worse than losing a child but to feel that [our son] did not have all the information he needed to make informed of best practice. Will the Minister meet a delegation of decisions makes it especially cruel.” interested MPs to discuss discrimination and epilepsy at work? There is also an issue about information for bereaved families after death has, tragically, occurred. NICE guidelines state: 4.35 pm “Where families and/or carers have been affected by SUDEP, Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I commend the healthcare professionals should contact families and/or carers to hon. Members who secured this debate, and the Backbench offer their condolences, invite them to discuss the death, and offer Business Committee for bringing this very serious issue referral to bereavement counselling and a SUDEP support group.” to our attention. I have found the debate genuinely Yet SUDEP Action says that that is not happening. It is shocking. aware of many people bereaved by epilepsy who find no The statistics are shocking enough: 600,000 people in specialist support and who are often left struggling to this country have epilepsy. That puts it on the same understand what has happened to them and why. scale as dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, but it receives In 2013, SUDEP Action launched—with, I am pleased far less attention, perhaps because we feel that we are to say, Government support—the epilepsy deaths register. used to epilepsy and it is not that serious. Another It is not only an amazing research resource, but of shocking statistic is that 1,000 people a year die of enormous value to families, which the Government 567 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 568 should be congratulated on supporting. It offers a means London employee who was sacked. I hope that action for bereaved families to express what has happened to can be taken to rectify that situation. them. SUDEP Action says: I, too, looked online at Epilepsy Action’s very useful “The bereaved families are robbed of the chance of saying tool. I found that my local clinical commissioning groups, goodbye; of saying the things that they always wanted to, and Tameside and Glossop CCG and Stockport CCG, had didn’t. They are robbed of opportunities, future hopes and dreams.” not produced a written needs assessment for people The register is therefore an important outlet for the with epilepsy, or appointed a clinical lead for epilepsy to families: take charge. That point was made eloquently by my “It is somewhere to leave their story; a way to feel that the hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South, the hon. information they give will be used for the benefit of others for Member for Southend West and others. I ask the Minister years to come. The impact of these deaths is not yet fully understood, but in our experience is captured by one of the to consider how we can ensure that CCGs undertake families reporting to SUDEP Action’s Epilepsy Deaths Register: adequate needs assessments of people with epilepsy. It ‘The physical pain and guilt are overwhelming, and we are only is increasingly important that local plans are drawn up just becoming able to talk about him to each other after 16 months for local provision. has passed. The impact is total and devastating, and has affected both the physical and mental health of the whole family.’” It is important to recognise that epilepsy care has moved from predominantly secondary care to being SUDEP Action and families such as Emily’s are based more and more in primary care. That has positives calling for better information. That means better and negatives. Clearly primary care is more accessible, information at primary care level. I know that this is a and therefore easier to access on a regular basis, but on constant theme with GPs and that they cannot be the other hand it is less specialist. Some professionals experts in everything, but it is particularly important in operating in primary care might not have the expertise the case of epilepsy because people do not understand needed to recognise things that would be significant to a the potential seriousness of the condition. There must specialist. Some things can be done only in secondary also be better communication about risk that is care, as we heard from the hon. Member for Wycombe. communicated properly by specialist services and better information after death for bereaved families. I particularly want to press the Minister on the issue We as policy makers have little power to offer much of brain surgery. It is estimated that about 5,000 adults comfort to families such as Emily’s, but if we can take could and should benefit from brain surgery, which is action that saves even one more life from sudden unexpected the only cure for epilepsy. To put that in context, only death in epilepsy, it would matter a great deal to Emily’s about 3,000 adults have that life-changing surgery each family and friends, among whom I feel proud to have year, so there is clearly more that can be done. Are there briefly counted myself. any plans to direct NHS England to increase the number of operations undertaken, to produce an adult epilepsy 4.41 pm service similar to the one that, to be fair, has been created for children’s epilepsy? Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for South Thanet (Laura According to Epilepsy Action, there are about 30,000 Sandys) on securing this debate. I pay tribute to her accident and emergency attendances due to epilepsy outstanding work to advance the cause of those who each year. According to the national audit of seizure suffer from epilepsy. She will certainly be missed from management in hospitals in 2014, 18,000 of those could this place. be prevented by the implementation of a better care pathway for people with epilepsy. What is being done There have been 11 Back-Bench contributions to this to ensure that all A and E departments have a clear debate. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for referral pathway for patients presenting with a suspected Vauxhall (Kate Hoey), for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa seizure? Pearce) and for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), my right hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth), There is a clearly a welcome focus on research and my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame development in policy terms. The 100,000 Genomes M. Morris), the right hon. Member for Chesham and Project is a good example of the potential for genetics Amersham (Mrs Gillan) and the hon. Members for research to change lives. It would be nice to see the Wycombe (Steve Baker), for Leeds North West (Greg project encompass more specialist research into epilepsy, Mulholland), for Southend West (Sir David Amess) and because genetics research could have an untold impact for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) for their considered on epilepsy treatment. contributions. A number of Members, most recently the hon. Member Advocates such as the hon. Member for South Thanet for Cheltenham, mentioned SUDEP. This week I, too, and the others who have spoken today are crucial heard from the family of Emily Sumaria, who are in because of the stigma around epilepsy, which is almost Westminster today. As we have heard, Emily died in her unique. Epilepsy is portrayed on television as somebody sleep while at university. She was bright and funny, with falling to the ground and foaming at the mouth, as we a lifetime ahead of her. Her epilepsy was to all intents have heard in this debate, with the treatment invariably and purposes under control, and she lived a relatively involving an ambulance with flashing blue lights. Somebody normal life. Emily was never told of the risk of sudden with epilepsy may suffer a seizure only once or twice a unexpected death in epilepsy, which primarily affects year, if that, but will live with the stigma of epilepsy all young people. The worst that she feared would happen year round. Sufferers would probably prefer to focus on if she had a seizure was that she would have her driving talking and on tackling the stigma. licence removed. Her mother is certain that if she had I find appalling and completely discriminatory the been told of the risk, she could have taken the necessary case that was raised by my hon. Friends the Members precautions and made the necessary adjustments to her for Vauxhall and for Easington of the Transport for lifestyle. 569 Epilepsy26 FEBRUARY 2015 Epilepsy 570

[Andrew Gwynne] about the dreadful cases involving Jessica and Emily. We will all agree that we owe it to those two girls to do Emily was simply given a regular prescription, and everything we can to improve the experience of people basic mistakes in the moving of her medical records with epilepsy, and to avoid tragedies of that sort happening. from her home GP practice to her new one at university It is important to raise awareness, not only among the resulted in her new doctor halving her dose without her public but among clinicians, of the condition and how knowledge. In preparing for the debate, I found that best to respond to it. some medical schools do not include SUDEP in their I pay tribute to the work of organisations involved in curriculum in any great detail. It is asking a bit much campaigning and research into epilepsy. The Epilepsy for young people to research the risks of SUDEP and Society is based in the constituency of my right hon. precautions against it, given that their doctors will Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham, and themselves often not be fully aware of the details. I Epilepsy Action in Leeds is close to the constituency of suspect that the inclusion of SUDEP, epilepsy deaths my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West and epilepsy risks in the programme at medical schools (Greg Mulholland). Young Epilepsy has also been would help to change that. Perhaps the Minister will mentioned, as has the important work done by SUDEP give his thoughts on whether that could be brought to Action. I remember meeting its members when they the attention of medical schools. were establishing the register, and, as my hon. Friend The Opposition have said that we will give every the Member for Cheltenham made clear, it has the patient full ownership of their medical data; they would potential to provide incredibly rich data and evidence to be able to share the data with whichever organisations help us understand why sudden unexpected deaths occur, they saw fit. We hope that with more people taking and how we can prevent them from occurring in the control of their data, we will be able to establish more future. All those organisations are doing incredibly data-driven research projects. I doubt that a patient important work. suffering from epilepsy would object to their data being used to develop a cure, but the point is that they would The hon. Members for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) and for have to give consent for the data to be used in that Easington (Grahame M. Morris) mentioned discrimination. manner. Data would be more free and research would They will understand that I cannot comment on an be immeasurably improved, but the final say would go individual case—I am an ex-lawyer and cautious about to the patient. these things—but the important point about combating Let me finish on a positive note, because I am optimistic disability discrimination, including for epilepsy, cannot about the future. Epilepsy research is going from strength be overstated. Where there has been discrimination, it is to strength, and we are making improvements in treatment, incredibly important that there are consequences and with pharmaceuticals and surgery providing hopeful that lessons are learned to avoid such things happening prospects of a cure. I looked at the NHS Choices in the future. website before this debate, and 17 clinical trials are I cannot begin to do justice to all the important recruiting now in the UK with the aim of advancing our points raised in this debate, so I undertake to write to all knowledge about the condition. I thank hon. Members hon. Members who have taken part and to respond on who have contributed to the debate, especially the hon. important points such as co-commissioning laser ablation Member for South Thanet whom I wish well for the treatment, which was mentioned by my right hon. Friend future. the Member for Chesham and Amersham, as well as many other issues. 4.50 pm The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Kate Hoey: When he leaves the Chamber today, will Lamb): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for the Minister or one of his staff at least make a telephone South Thanet (Laura Sandys) who has worked with my call to get some more information about this young right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham woman and London Underground’s behaviour? (Mrs Gillan). Together they present a powerful case, and I join everyone in thanking my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet for everything she has done Norman Lamb: I am certainly happy to explore that, in this Parliament. She will be very much missed, and although the hon. Lady will understand why I cannot her case today was all the more powerful because she get involved in the case. has epilepsy and can speak with authenticity. What she The Government are committed to securing high-quality said about stigma is right—I see it often in mental outcomes for people in England living with epilepsy, health, and it is exactly the same issue in this debate. whose number is currently estimated at more than 450,000. The fact that not long ago someone with epilepsy could There are many different types of epilepsy seizure, and not marry is an extraordinary reminder of what we have although some patients have the condition from birth, been up against. This debate is timely and gives everyone others become epileptic later in life. For the majority of the chance to focus on the condition and on how we can people with epilepsy, the condition can be well improve the lives of those who have epilepsy. I am managed—my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North pleased that the baton will be passed to the hon. Member West talked about the experience of people in Leeds for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), who I am sure will ably and the excellent care provided by hospitals there—and continue to articulate the case for people who suffer they can lead independent and healthy lives. As such, from epilepsy. the provision of services for these patients is the The debate has been marked by reference to two responsibility of local commissioners, who are best tragedies involving young people, and my hon. Friends placed to manage services for local populations. It is the Members for Wycombe (Steve Baker) and for critical, however, that those who require more specialised Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) spoke incredibly movingly care can access the right services and treatments, which 571 Epilepsy 26 FEBRUARY 2015 572 is why NHS England commissions such services nationally. must—absolutely must—be given accurate information That need not be undermined by co-commissioning and counselling about medication such as sodium valproate. with local areas. That is critical. I mentioned that the Department was The Government recognise the importance of ensuring considering the possibility of a red flag system, and I that patients with suspected epilepsy are diagnosed hope it will be possible to achieve that. swiftly and accurately. As most people will be aware, For some people with more complex conditions whose seizures are the main symptom of the condition, and it epilepsy is more difficult to control, other procedures, is common practice for anyone who has experienced such as surgery or vagus nerve stimulation, might be such seizures to be referred for assessment by a specialist. appropriate. Patients whose epilepsy is particularly difficult Neurological conditions such as epilepsy are part of the to treat may be referred to a specialist neurological care generalist undergraduate medical curriculum and a provider. In particular, children with epilepsy should be component of GP training. As such, GPs should be considered for specialised care at an early stage, because able to manage, monitor and appropriately refer the of the developmental, behavioural or psychological effects epileptic patients in their care. In secondary care, there associated with suffering from continuing seizures. are nearly 2,000 full-time equivalent neurologists, and In conclusion, this has been an incredibly important for 2015-16 Health Education England has made a debate, and I will do everything I can to follow up all commitment to invest in 217 neurological specialty the important points raised. training places. In addition, specialist epilepsy nurses should be a key element of both routine and specialist 4.59 pm neurological care, as set out by NICE and NHS England Laura Sandys: I want to thank everybody here and to respectively. I know that my hon. Friend the Member ask the Minister to do something for everybody, not for Southend West (Sir David Amess) has concerns in least the two young ladies we have heard about today. his locality, but it ought to be part of the picture in each Their legacy is worth his doing three things. area. The first is to talk to NHS England and work out a To support clinicians in the management of this pathway to reduce by 400 the unnecessary deaths caused condition, NICE has published a guideline setting out by SUDEP each year. The second is to kick and beat best practice on the diagnosis, treatment and care of the more than 90% of CCGs that do not have a pathway. patients. The guideline recommends that referrals for That is not acceptable; it is absolutely letting down patients with suspected epilepsy are urgent, with patients many people throughout the country. The third is to being seen within two weeks, if possible. I think that the determine how best to implement the NICE guidelines hon. Member for Vauxhall mentioned a wait of two and ensure that the pathway of long-term chronic care— months. That is not acceptable and should not happen, and the local organisations responsible for the delays 5pm should be held to account. If it is possible in other areas Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 9(3)). of the country, it ought to be possible everywhere. In addition, if seizures are not controlled or diagnosis Business without Debate is uncertain, people should be referred to a specialist service within four weeks. Most people with epilepsy BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE can have their condition successfully controlled with Ordered, anti-epileptic drugs, and there are more than 25 types of drugs with which to achieve seizure control. The NICE That at the sitting on Wednesday 4 March paragraph (2) of Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments) shall apply to guideline makes it clear that treatment should be the Motion in the name of Edward Miliband as if the day were an individualised according to the seizure type, epilepsy Opposition Day; proceedings on the Motion may continue, though syndrome, co-medication and life style. On the point opposed, for three hours and shall then lapse if not previously made by the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead disposed of; and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) (Teresa Pearce), women with epilepsy wanting to conceive shall not apply.—(Mark Lancaster.) 573 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 574 (Rotherham) Child Sexual Exploitation (Rotherham) funds that have been withheld from Rotherham, because the council and other agencies need them to deal with Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House the problems highlighted in the Jay and Casey reports? do now adjourn.—(Mark Lancaster.) Sarah Champion: I agree absolutely with my right 5pm hon. Friend about the situation in which Rotherham finds itself. It is unsustainable. Like him, I welcome this Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab): Exactly six months donation—[Interruption.]—or drop in the ocean, as ago to the day, the report commissioned by Rotherham my right hon. Friend says. It does not go anywhere near borough council into child sexual exploitation in the far enough. I shall come on to discuss what resources town was published. Professor Alexis Jay’s damning we need as I progress. report catalogued failings of both the police and the council over 16 years, which resulted in at least 1,400 victims On 3 September and 19 November, I raised the issue of child sexual exploitation. Still worse, most of those of support for the victims and survivors of Rotherham alleging the crimes received no support, no recognition abuse with the Prime Minister. I met him on the 4 February, and in many cases were dismissed, belittled or told that and he subsequently pledged support on “BBC Look it was basically their fault. There has been only one North”, for which I am hugely grateful. I am delighted major prosecution. that, as my right hon. Friend has said, the Communities Secretary announced £125,000 a year for two years to I believe that what happened in Rotherham was reform “risky business”. Without wanting to sound predominantly the result of a culture that refused to ungrateful, however, it is indeed a drop in the ocean in countenance “troublesome” teenagers as victims and comparison with the resources we need to allow the one that was prepared to tolerate the existence of sexual young people of my constituency to rebuild their lives. abuse—a culture where targets were more important than protecting children. The Jay report stunned me, I ask the Minister to recognise that Rotherham’s the country and, to be fair, the world. How could such police force must pay for the intervention of the National barbaric abuse occur, let alone go on uninvestigated? Crime Agency from Rotherham’s policing budget, and I simply do not have the answer to that question, and I that Rotherham council must pay for the Casey report doubt that I ever will: it simply should not have happened and the commissioners from Rotherham’s resources. in a civilised society. That is taking more money away from a town that needs more resources, not less, at a time when the Government When I managed to get my head around the enormity have already reduced the police budget by 20% and the of the failings, my next thought was to get help from the local authority budget by 40%. How, realistically, are Government. If there had been a natural disaster in we meant to cope? Why are the Government compounding Rotherham that had affected 1,400 people and the the horror that we already endure? council and police had insufficient resources to deal with it, the Government would of course have intervened. Let me make some suggestions about the sort of I would expect a visit from the Prime Minister, national support that we need. There are currently only two co-ordination of charities, Government experts to arrive child sexual exploitation workers dedicated to the victims and, as a priority, resources and support for the victims in Rotherham. One is employed by me, and I am and survivors to be provided. To date, we have had eternally grateful to the Independent Parliamentary nothing. Standards Authority for giving me emergency funding In this Chamber on 2 September, I asked the Home to pay for that worker. However, that funding will run Secretary for resources for the victims and survivors. out on 7 May. The other is employed by Barnardo’s. She She subsequently met me, and I discussed in detail what works only with people under the age of 18, and her was needed nationally and, more specifically, locally—but work load consists of only 12 people. There are social no cash followed. On the same date, I asked the Chancellor workers, counsellors and police officers working in the for additional funding, and met a Treasury Minister on field of child sexual exploitation, but there are only two 10 September, when I handed over a proposal for emergency people who are dedicated to supporting at least 1,400 funding that I had worked up with my colleagues, the victims and survivors. It should be borne in mind that two other MPs representing Rotherham, the police, the 30% of the Rotherham abuse victims covered by the Jay council and clinical commissioning groups. To date, I report are over the age of 25, and most are over 18. have not had as much as a reply to that request, although There is only one worker to deal with the majority, and after much chasing, I did get a holding letter dated her role will end in two months. “December”, telling me that the Treasury was looking I want the Government to recognise that Rotherham into it. needs specific intervention to allow us to move forward. We need a fully independent unit whose sole purpose John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): My would be to support victims and survivors of child hon. Friend is making a powerful case, so I hope the sexual exploitation. It should have charitable status, Minister is listening. To be fair, one small step has been and a board of trustees that should include representatives taken today, linked to the announcement by the Secretary of the Crown Prosecution Service, the council, the of State for Communities and Local Government of police, survivors, parents and the voluntary sector. The £250,000 for the commissioners for Rotherham council money that has been pledged today could provide a over two years, to reintroduce an outreach youth work seed fund. project—a “risky business”-style project. Does she recognise, The unit would work in three ways. First, it would as I do, that that is merely 0.5% of the budget cut that provide early intervention and prevention through a the council must make in April, so it is simply not team of youth workers, survivor volunteers, family support enough? Should not the Communities Secretary now workers, parent workers and health workers. They would release the troubled families and transformation award deliver education and training to professionals and 575 Child Sexual Exploitation 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 576 (Rotherham) (Rotherham) parents, carry out early prevention work with young people be a team of four or five CPS lawyers plus additional in educational and community settings, and provide admin support to manage current and future cases awareness sessions for the community at large. Secondly, effectively. Initial discussions have taken place and it would provide support and intervention for young the suggested team size and cost has been provided by people who were at risk and involved in grooming and the CPS. sexual exploitation. That support and intervention would I also recommend that an additional independent be delivered by a team of youth workers, social workers, sexual violence advisor, or ISVA,should be recruited, to police—police constables, and police and young people’s be co-located with the public protection unit in Rotherham partnership officers—survivor volunteers and trained to offer support and advocacy for victims as they are counsellors. Thirdly, the unit would offer one-to-one identified. Alternatively, the ISVAcould be community- support, help with intelligence sharing and gathering, based. The ISVA would need to be trained as a child strategy meetings, and section 47 investigations. There ISVAand therefore be able to support both child victims would also need to be interpreters, policy writers and in both current and historical cases. crèche workers. I see that as a model that could be replicated across the country. Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab): My hon. Friend is making a very good case. On her point about the Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): CPS, I dealt with a case in 2003-04 that is still being I congratulate the hon. Lady on making this case and investigated. It was with the CPS at that time, and they on all the work that she has done in Rotherham, although are a distance away from the borough. To echo another I am afraid that the problem of the lack of support for point, within the past hour, I spoke to the father of one survivors who might come forward is not limited to of the victims who I have been in touch with for many Rotherham. What does she think about the negotiations years now who had a meeting this week with the police which, I gather, are currently taking place between and crime commissioner, but setting up regular meetings Rotherham council and Ofsted? In its “improvement to try to sort something out is hindered by the lack of offer”, Ofsted suggests that it should provide advice and income because of budget cuts for the PCC and Rotherham support, although it failed to recognise the problem borough council. May I tell the Minister that we need earlier, and something might have been done about it help to sort this situation out? sooner if Ofsted had been rather better at its job. Sarah Champion: It would take a great deal for me to Sarah Champion: I echo what my right hon. Friend have faith in Ofsted and trust it to investigate and, says. In the CPS for South Yorkshire and the Humber, indeed, support Rotherham council, given the failings the Sheffield CPS has seven lawyers, each carrying a that it has demonstrated not just in Rotherham but caseload of at least 100 individuals. throughout the country. Ofsted needs to be much more Finally, in Rotherham we have three voluntary aware when it is assessing councils and individual counselling services trying to support all our survivors: organisations in the context of child sexual exploitation Apna Haq, GROW and the women’s counselling service. and child abuse in general. Although it was welcome that Rotherham council gave In the short term, there also needs to be a Rotherham- each organisation £20,000 to fast track child sexual specific organisation that is dedicated to co-ordinating exploitation cases, that is only until the end of the the witness statements that victims and survivors are financial year. What is needed is long-term investment asked to give. We currently have a ludicrous arrangement to enable them to work with victims and survivors in an whereby the same young victim is asked to give evidence intensive way and at the pace that the victims and to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, the survivors want. National Crime Agency, and South Yorkshire police. In discussions with the police and crime commissioner, That is hugely invasive, logistically demanding, and he has offered to be the fundholder for all the schemes I overwhelming for young people who are still trying to have outlined, as I am aware the Prime Minister was rebuild their lives. nervous about giving additional funding to the police or We need a centre that can co-ordinate all of the council. interviews and questions so the victim needs only to I would now like to focus on what needs to happen speak to one person in a safe and supportive space. To nationally. We know that Rotherham is not an isolated facilitate this, I ask that the Minister funds a remote case; it already follows high-profile cases of widespread video link to enable a victim who is involved in a court sexual abuse in other towns and cities. The sexual hearing to give evidence from a remote location. That exploitation of vulnerable teenagers is happening across would help serve the needs of victims in Rotherham, the country. It is of grave concern that our statutory enabling them to link into court proceedings without services are not in a fit position to respond consistently the trauma of attending court. This fact was highlighted and convincingly. In addition, there is a serious shortfall, as an issue for victims in the Jay report. There are and inconsistencies, in the support provided to victims challenges associated with delivering the initiative and of child sexual abuse and exploitation that must be the provision of defined funding to progress technological urgently addressed, from disclosure, through the criminal solutions would be beneficial. justice system and into therapeutic support for those To state the obvious, if we look after the victims and who need it. survivors we will get prosecutions. If we keep being Research conducted in 2009, currently being updated demanding of their time as is happening currently, they by the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to will withdraw their good will and the case will be lost. Children, found there was a shortfall in therapeutic Another short-term Rotherham specific request is a support for victims of sexual abuse of more than 50,000 dedicated Crown Prosecution Service team to provide places a year, a huge gap between need and service timely pre-charge advice and progress cases. That would provision. Victims are subject to a postcode lottery with 577 Child Sexual Exploitation 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 578 (Rotherham) (Rotherham) [Sarah Champion] congratulate her on securing this debate on such an important issue. Her continued dedication to addressing only one support programme for every 25,000 children child sexual exploitation, both in Rotherham, alongside in the UK. The 508 services that are available are so the police and local agencies, and nationally, in partnership overstretched they are now being forced to stop taking with Barnardo’s, is to be applauded. As she is aware, I on new cases. wholeheartedly agree that the failures identified by Professor On Monday, the shadow Home Secretary committed Jay’s report are grave indeed. What happened in Rotherham a Labour Government to creating a dedicated child was a complete dereliction of duty. protection unit. I urge the Government to do the same. Shockingly, Louise Casey’s report of 4 February shows This topic should be not about politics but about doing that, even since the Jay report, the council and its local the best for our children. I would like propose a five-point partners have continued to deny the scale of the problem, plan to tackle child sexual exploitation nationally. The highlighting first is the establishment of a national taskforce for “past and present failures to accept, understand and combat the organised child sexual exploitation, based on a similar issue of Child Sexual Exploitation, resulting in a lack of support model to the forced marriage unit or the modern day for victims and insufficient action against known perpetrators.” slavery commissioner. That would be a small, dedicated Louise Casey’s report is a disturbing account of “a team of experts in policing, prosecuting and psychological council in denial”. It concludes that Rotherham council support that can be used as a resource by police forces, is not fit for purpose and failing to comply with the councils and the voluntary sector if they suspect organised statutory best value duty, and that it needs a fresh start. child sexual exploitation. If that taskforce had existed when the Jay report came out six months ago, the police Separately, the Independent Police Complaints and the council could have immediately had specialist Commission announced in November that it is investigating support on how to work with the victims; best practice the conduct of South Yorkshire police officers in relation in securing prosecutions; setting up a dedicated investigation to their handling of reported child sexual exploitation team; and how to manage communications. in Rotherham. That is in response to Professor Alexis Jay’s review, and I am pleased that South Yorkshire In reality, the police and the council have been left police have committed to fully co-operate with the to flounder for six months, learning by their mistakes investigation. rather than being supported through an intensely difficult time. When the Jay report clearly identified failings with The hon. Lady has raised a number of issues and I the police and the council, why did not the Government undertake to get back to her on any that I am not able offer immediate support? I welcome the intervention of to respond to during the course of this debate. I appreciate commissioners now, but why could they not have been many of her suggestions and she will understand if they brought in much earlier, avoiding some of the mistakes do not automatically become part of the Government’s that have been allowed to happen? programme, but I undertake to report all of them back My second point is that we should introduce mandatory to the Home Secretary, who is committed to this issue. personal, social, health and economic education for key stage 1 children. This is about teaching children not John Healey: Troubled families? about sex, but about what is, and is not, a healthy relationship. We need to give our children the tools to Lynne Featherstone: In a moment. arm themselves against abuse, not leave them to discover The Government have taken immediate action to the horrors of the internet and, in the absence of proper protect children in Rotherham. We have appointed Malcolm education, be forced to consider what they see there to Newsam—one of the country’s most experienced experts be normal. in children’s services improvement—to oversee the initial I would also like the Government to make it mandatory changes needed. In addition, following the publication for anyone employed to work with children to have of Louise Casey’s report, my right hon. Friend the training in spotting the signs of child abuse and how to Secretary of Sate for Communities and Local Government report concerns. announced his intention to appoint a team of Fourthly, I am tired of professionals being more commissioners who will exercise functions of the authority concerned about protecting data than about protecting and oversee a rigorous programme of improvement to the child. The Government need to send out a clear bring about the essential changes in culture and ensure signal that there will be penalties if health and education there is effective and accountable political and officer services, local authorities and the police do not share leadership in future. My right hon. Friend has today information to prevent child abuse. issued directions in order to exercise those intervention Finally, we need a culture where victims of child powers in Rotherham. abuse are believed. In Rotherham, victims were trying In parallel, the Secretary of State for Education to report their abuse for decades. They repeatedly had asked Isabelle Trowler, the chief social worker for children doors shut in their faces and were branded prostitutes, and families, to undertake a swift piece of work drawing worthless or complicit. I say to the Minister that that out the social work and leadership lessons for local culture has to change. It is slowly changing in cases of authorities and local safeguarding children boards from rape and domestic violence; it needs to quickly change the Rotherham report. Isabelle concluded that the social in the case of child abuse. work response in Rotherham was weak. To address the need for urgent improvements in 5.16 pm Rotherham and elsewhere, the Secretary of State for The Minister for Crime Prevention (Lynne Featherstone): Education has announced a new programme of work I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the focused on practice leadership of child and family hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) and social work, and the development of new teaching 579 Child Sexual Exploitation 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 580 (Rotherham) (Rotherham) partnership arrangements to improve the quality of Lynne Featherstone: I understand the hon. Lady’s initial education and tie initial training into professional anxiety and need. When someone knows a situation as practice. closely as she knows this one, they can see all the The National Crime Agency has also launched an answers and they want something right now, and a lot independent two-stage investigation into child sexual of it—[Interruption.] Indeed, it would be for the victims. exploitation and abuse in Rotherham—Operation Stovewood The Home Secretary has led a series of meetings with —following a request from South Yorkshire’schief constable. her Secretary of State colleagues to consider what more The Ministry of Justice has provided a 50% increase in we as a Government can do to help to prevent these the funding provided to the three rape support centres failures from happening again. Those meetings have that operate in South Yorkshire. There is undoubtedly focused on the issues highlighted in Rotherham: the more to be done for the victims in Rotherham, and complete failure of local leadership; the culture of more to be done to minimise the risk of such terrible inaction and denial in the police and the council; the events occurring in Rotherham or anywhere else in the failure of local agencies to work together to protect future. children; and the lack of support for survivors. A report Unfortunately child sexual exploitation of the extent on the action to address each of those issues will be seen in Rotherham is far from unique. We need to published shortly. A key part of that response will confront these failures at national level, and this recognise the need for further support for victims from Government are committed to doing so. I am sure that statutory and non-statutory support services, and for the next Government will be also be committed to their engagement with the criminal justice system. doing so. Effective, timely support for victims of child sexual abuse is a matter of national importance and it is one Tim Loughton: When I was a Minister in the Department that this Government have prioritised. We have put rape for Education—and when I occupied the ministerial support centres on a secure financial footing, by providing role that you have also occupied, Madam Deputy Speaker more than £4.4 million a year to 86 organisations across —we would send in officials to make an intervention, England and Wales that provide support to women and and it was crucial that there were civil servants and girl victims of rape and sexual violence. That funding is Ministers in the Department who understood the nature targeted at women and teenage girls who have been the of the problem and could oversee the data that were victim of rape or sexual abuse; whether as a result of a being brought back to them. Given that this responsibility recent attack or of historical abuse. We have funded a now rests with the Home Office and that the chief social further 15 new rape support centres in areas that were worker is accountable to the Department for Education, lacking specialised support—13 centres were brought is the Minister confident that she has the necessary into existence by June 2014, and the final two centres, officials and time to ensure that the people overseeing located in Grantham and Crawley, were commissioned what is going on in Rotherham know what they are by the Ministry of Justice in September 2014 and will looking for and can see the job through properly? be open during 2015.

Lynne Featherstone: My hon. Friend makes an important Sarah Champion: Will the Minister give way on that point. We need that kind of hands-on experience in point? both Departments as well as co-ordination between them, because we do not want anyone falling through Lynne Featherstone: I will but I may not get to the the holes or not recognising what needs to be done. end of the list of support we are giving. Louise Casey’s report also describes how a small youth project, Risky Business, had developed a ground- Sarah Champion: I hope that the Minister realises breaking approach to reaching out to victims of sexual that rape is a completely different crime from child exploitation and to collecting evidence about perpetrators. sexual exploitation and grooming. Unfortunately, misguided and inappropriate decisions made by the council resulted in the closure of the Lynne Featherstone: I do recognise that, but these service. The report concludes: services all relate to sexual violence. On rape and sexual “The critical work they undertook is now missing from RMBC.” violence, young women may come to those clinics as a That situation should not continue, and the victims of result of what has happened to them, so there is some historical child sexual exploitation should be given the overlap between child sexual exploitation and sexual help they need. Accordingly, subject to being provided violence against teenage girls. with an appropriate business case demonstrating value We recognised the gap in services supporting men for money, I am prepared to make available £250,000 and boys and, as a result, launched a fund dedicated to over the next two financial years for a Risky Business-style supporting male victims of rape and sexual violence of service to be established. more than £600,000 over two years. We have awarded a further £400,000 over two years to Survivors UK to Sarah Champion: As I said in my speech, I am extremely help it create the first ever national website to provide grateful for that, but as my right hon. Friend the Member online support service for male survivors of rape and for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and I have sexual abuse. We have funded a network of independent both pointed out, £125,000 a year is a drop in the ocean. sexual violence advisers at a cost £1.7 million per year It will pay for four workers and an office. I am really to part-fund 87 ISVAs to provide appropriate and hoping, therefore, that the Minister is about to tell us independent support for victims. We have funded a that she will make available more Government support network of 13 young people’s advocates, at a cost of for the victims and survivors. £400,000 per year, who provide direct and dedicated 581 Child Sexual Exploitation 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 582 (Rotherham) (Rotherham) [Lynne Featherstone] Let me deal with some of the specific points the hon. Lady raised. On the need for a remote link for vulnerable support to young people who have been victims of, or victims and witnesses to give evidence, the Ministry of are at risk of, sexual and domestic violence and/or Justice has committed to set up at least one remote, sexual exploitation. non-court video link in each Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service area by the end of next month. Although We do, however, recognise that there is a need for an specific locations cannot yet be confirmed, there will be uplift to these services. In the past two years a 40% a site in the north-east region, which covers Rotherham, increase in child sexual offences has been recorded by as well as in other locations in England and Wales. In the police, leading to significant increases in the demand addition, vulnerable and intimidated witnesses can give for support for survivors. The large increase in the evidence using a live link from any other Crown court number of victims reporting child sexual abuse and and most magistrates courts away from the trial court. exploitation to the police, and other bodies, has resulted It is recognised that that has to be available. in a significant demand. That is why we agreed in I am way off Government message on PSHE, as December an immediate uplift in non-statutory sector everyone well knows. I totally agree that it does need to support to victims of child sexual abuse of £7 million. come forward but as we are very near to the ending of That fund was split between an immediate uplift of this Parliament, I hope that all three parties will come £2.15 million to the 84 existing rape support centres; a back with a recommendation for that. I have particularly £2 million fund to non-statutory organisations, which to agree with the hon. Lady on data sharing. Like her, I are reporting an increase in demand as a direct result of started with an issue in my area, with baby Peter being the announcement of the child sexual abuse inquiry; the issue in my constituency, and in my experience and and a £2.85 million fund for non-statutory organisations in all the serious case reviews I have read since then, the providing support across England and Wales to help lack of data sharing at every point has allowed a gap for meet the increased demand on those services. Tragically, a child to fall through. As I say, I will report all her this is happening right across the country, although requests to the Home Secretary. Rotherham’s is the case that we all know best and that was so shocking. We will ensure that this funding is Child sexual abuse is a despicable crime and this available to organisations supporting victims and survivors Government are absolutely determined to eradicate it. in areas where there is a high prevalence of child sexual In the past, all too often these horrific crimes were abuse and exploitation, such as Rotherham. As the hon. ignored, but now child sexual abuse is rightly centre Lady will know, the funds are being administered by the stage as an issue and we must work together to tackle it. police and crime commissioner for Norfolk, because I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate, the chief constable there, Simon Bailey, is the national and on all the passion and commitment she brings to policing lead for child protection and abuse investigation. this issue. The Home Office is also supporting that work, and Question put and agreed to. bidding for both funds will close on 2 March. We would expect successful bidders to be notified by the end of 5.30 pm next month. House adjourned. 175WH 26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 176WH

he did and for the Chinese to say that their emissions Westminster Hall would peak on a date not later than 2030 simply could not have happened. In my judgment and experience, for Thursday 26 February 2015 the Chinese to say publicly that something will happen not later than 2030 means that they are absolutely certain it will happen well before that. I warmly welcome [MR GRAHAM BRADY in the Chair] the greater determination of the US Administration to engage with this issue, which is still extremely controversial in parts of the United States. BACKBENCH BUSINESS Here at home we had an historic announcement this month. The three leaders of the major parties united in Low Carbon Energy Generation a public joint commitment to continue to take action to Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting tackle climate change. I do not recall any other major be now adjourned.—(Mr Wallace.) political issue being addressed in quite the same unanimous way just two months before an election. I welcome both those important political developments. 1.30 pm Equally important is the transformation in business’ Mr Tim Yeo (South Suffolk) (Con): Welcome to the attitude. Twenty years ago, much of industry was reluctant Chair, Mr Brady. It is a pleasure, indeed it is an honour, to acknowledge the need to engage in finding solutions to serve under the chairmanship of such a distinguished to climate change. It felt that such demands for reduced colleague—and this may be my last opportunity to say dependence on fossil fuels were a threat to their business that in public. I draw attention to my entry in the models. Today, by way of contrast, in many parts of the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and my interests world business leaders are ahead of policy makers in in the energy sector in particular. recognising both the urgency and the scale of the need I am delighted to have secured this debate and I am to move away from models that are dependent on fossil grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for granting fuel consumption. it. I am sorry that, despite valiant efforts, we do not I warmly congratulate the Government for confirming have quite as many people here as we had when we the fourth carbon budget for the 2023-27 period. That made the application. I also warmly welcome my hon. challenging budget, which was set four years ago, was Friend from Lancashire—I am about to say west. reviewed last year and, to the coalition’s enormous credit, it confirmed it. I am sure that in private, parts of Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con): Whitehall argued strongly for a dilution of those targets, Wyre and Preston North. but they were confirmed. Mr Yeo: I apologise. I made the same mistake last I also warmly congratulate the European Union. time my hon. Friend was responding to such a debate, That is not something Conservative colleagues frequently but I am delighted to see him and I know that he will do, but its recent, excellent decision, supported by the UK, give us a robust response to any points raised. to adopt a cut in greenhouse gas emissions of 40% for its 2020 target was at the upper end of aspirations. That I stress that my commitment to low carbon energy is good for two reasons. First, it sets a challenging figure goes back more than 20 years. When I served in John that will force businesses and consumers across the EU Major’s Government as a Minister in what was then the to think about how they can help achieve it. Department for the Environment, among other things I dealt with climate change, which in 1993 was much less Secondly, it is a rational target. By setting an overall understood or even talked about. If someone mentioned target for a cut in emissions, the need for any subsidiary climate change at a social occasion, people would look targets is largely removed. I have always been concerned at them as though they were slightly strange. However, about the artificial imposition of targets for the proportion it did not take me long to be convinced that climate of energy that comes from renewable sources. They are change was occurring—the scientific evidence was powerful not the right way forward; it is up to member states to even then—and that the changes we were observing decide how much they want to use renewables and other were caused at least in part, and in my view in substantial technologies. The European Union achieved a good part, by the increased concentration of greenhouse outcome. gases in the atmosphere in the past 200 years, which was Achieving the UK domestic target, which is enshrined a result of man-made activity and the industrial revolution in law, and the EU target will require in particular in particular. substantial decarbonisation of the electricity generation As I recall, in the 1990s the scale of the problem was industry. We have the technology that makes that possible; much less certain. Today, the need for substantial cuts the question is whether we are willing to adopt it. In in greenhouse gas emissions is widely, even if not universally, effect, a transformation must take place in the energy accepted. As we approach the Paris conference of parties industry in the next 15 to 20 years. Because it has one of at the end of the year, the world’s attention will be the longest investment cycles of any industry, we cannot increasingly focused on how we can achieve a more leave decisions for another five or 10 years. rapid decarbonisation of our economies. The decisions we make in the next two or three years— Last November we had the historic joint announcement before the end of this decade—will have a huge and in Beijing by President Obama and President Xi of material impact on what happens later on. In effect, those China in which they committed to cut emissions. Such a decisions will determine at what cost the decarbonisation commitment would have been completely unthinkable of UK electricity generation will be achieved. If we get even three years ago: for the US President to say what those decisions wrong and we lock ourselves into too 177WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 178WH much dependence on fossil fuels, we will be forced into something here we can exploit and perhaps even use to making emergency, very expensive changes in the late-2020s gain a bigger share of the supply chain, with resulting and early-2030s. benefits for our economy. This debate is about how to decarbonise electricity Nuclear clearly ticks the security of supply and cutting generation, and I want to start with the nuclear industry. carbon emissions boxes, but the industry still has some I warmly welcome the fact that, broadly speaking, there work to do on the third aim of energy policy: affordability. is bipartisan political consensus that the UK needs a The questions about cost are a work in progress. I am nuclear component in its energy industry. The latest confident that there are ways of cutting the cost of figures from the Department of Energy and Climate nuclear. The nuclear industry, rightly, has very demanding Change show that even now, following the shutdown of safety requirements imposed on it. If the same requirements a couple of EDF’s reactors, nuclear still provides roughly were applied to some other energies, their impact would a fifth of our electricity, so it is a substantial component. be enormous. If the coal industry, for example, had ever Nuclear, as supporters such as me constantly remind had to cope with the safety demands made on the people, provides reliable, base load, low carbon power. nuclear industry, it would have struggled to survive in the way it has. I do not want to turn this into too partisan an However, we must be mindful of the importance of occasion, but there was a slightly wasted decade under value for money. In this country, we are often supportive the previous Labour Government during which nothing of first-of-a-kind technology. It is interesting, because much happened on nuclear. However, the bullet has we have a great record and history of innovation and now been bitten and the decision to go ahead first with research. However, there is a question mark over whether Hinkley Point was supported in all parts of the House— first-of-a-kind technology will be the cheapest. If nuclear even the Liberal Democrats supported that, which showed is to roll out extensively, as I hope it will, and continue to a welcome change of heart. Unfortunately, the supply a significant proportion of UK electricity generation implementation of the decision to go ahead with Hinkley capacity, we have to consider whether technologies that Point is proving to be tortuous and slow. I therefore have been tried and tested in other countries first—in a commend the Government’s willingness—in fact, they home market—may then be able to offer us something. have been positively welcoming—to perhaps have a foreign investor as the minority partner in Hinkley. I Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman trust that the final investment decision on Hinkley will makes an important point. Hinkley, of course, is going not be delayed much further, and I hope the Minister with technology that has yet to be proven. In my will give us an update on progress because many of us constituency, the Hitachi project is using reactors that have been getting concerned. The timetable for this have worked elsewhere and have been upgraded. That is project has already slipped considerably, and it would relatively new to this country, but a rigorous process has be a huge relief to many people if we thought that final been gone through. The fact that we have two different investment decision would be signed off imminently. types bodes well for the future; we cannot put all our Of course, the future of nuclear is not just about eggs in one nuclear basket, so to speak. Hinkley. It is the first step, but other projects are within sight, and I believe that gives Britain the chance to lead Mr Yeo: I agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I am a European nuclear renaissance. We have huge advantages sure he will enlarge on that point when he speaks in the in this country, such as the political consensus to which debate, should he catch your eye, Mr Brady—there does I have referred, and the fact that our regulator is probably not appear to be overwhelming competition for that. best in class; it enjoys universal respect. One reason why However, it is an important point that we need to bring the accident at Fukushima four years ago did not derail out in the debate about nuclear. I welcome the fact that progress on nuclear power in this country was that there are competing technologies that want to get started people trust the Office for Nuclear Regulation. In the in the UK, but in deciding which ones we might “go wake of Fukushima, Mike Weightman’s report reassured nap” on, we need to focus on value for money. There people that such an accident could not occur here and will perhaps be an opportunity to choose between a the circumstances of it could not be reproduced here. number of them, and those that have been tried and That has helped to create in the UK a public opinion tested elsewhere first may have a cost advantage that we that is more supportive of nuclear power than that in should not be afraid of identifying. many other countries. Interestingly, people who live Let me move on to renewables, on which there has closest to nuclear power stations are often the strongest been excellent progress since 2010. In stimulating new supporters; they recognise that nuclear is a clean, reliable investment in renewables, the regime established by the and safe technology that provides a decent number of electricity market reform process and all the accompanying well-paid jobs. legislation, which some of us have laboured for many The interest that other countries are showing in the hours to improve, is now one of the best in the world UK market reflects those circumstances. We now have from the point of view of investors. Today’s news about interest from the Chinese, South Koreans, Japanese, the contracts for difference allocations confirms that. Americans and Russians; they would all like to be here There is a lot of interest in investment in renewables in the UK nuclear market. Some of them see the UK as here in the UK, and I warmly welcome the success of a good starting point for the rest of Europe. Many of the CfD regime. them will feel that going through and getting approved There is, however, a clearly topical issue in this regard by the UK’s generic design assessment process is an that relates directly to my concerns about value for money. imprimatur—a mark of approval—that would be useful The strike prices announced today remind us—much more to their technologies in other markets. Britain should clearly than the previous, somewhat opaque renewables welcome and take advantage of that interest. There is obligation certificates system ever did, certainly to the 179WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 180WH layman—of the relative costs of different renewables Last year, we had an announcement about the final technologies. Of course, it is great news for consumers investment decision enabling contracts, which I think that the cost of solar is falling and the strike price is were announced last April and used up just over half now significantly lower. The rapid and considerable fall the available resource under the levy control framework. in the cost of solar is partly a reflection of the enormous A large chunk of that was allocated under contracts expansion of the solar industry in China, and that has that were at higher prices than those today. Things are had direct benefits for British consumers. It is now clear always easier with the benefit of hindsight, but looking that solar can reach grid parity before long, even in this back, I think that in our anxiety to get the process climate. under way, we may have gone a bit further than we I am also delighted that today’s announcement makes needed to at that early stage and are locked into some it clear that a significant amount of new capacity will be relatively expensive contracts. Be that as it may, the provided by onshore wind. I am aware that it is an benefits of competition and the continuing fall in costs extremely controversial technology, particularly among are reflected in today’s strike prices. I therefore urge the many of my hon. Friends, but as we can see today, the Government to be as technology-blind as possible in truth is that onshore wind offers good value for money, the future. They should leave local objections to individual relatively speaking. Of course, there are some—perhaps proposals or projects to be resolved through the planning many—places in which onshore wind turbines are simply system, and try to help the best value for money technologies unacceptable, for environmental and other reasons, but to continue to cut costs and to flourish. I would regret it very much if, as a matter of policy, we I have already mentioned that I think that solar will turned our back on onshore wind altogether. That would reach grid parity. I think that onshore wind also has the turn out to be an expensive mistake, because even with potential to reach grid parity, and if that happens and a prices for offshore wind falling—again, I welcome the local community are happy to see some turbines in their strike prices announced today—onshore wind remains neighbourhood, why should they not be allowed to substantially cheaper. construct them? My anxiety about offshore wind is that I do not see the potential for the huge fall in cost that occurred with Let me move on to gas, which is not everyone’s idea solar. A large part of the cost of offshore wind is in the of a low carbon technology, although compared with installation process of planting and anchoring a turbine unabated coal, it certainly is a lower carbon technology. in deep and rough waters. There may be a limited number The problem for Britain with gas is that our reserves are of days on which the process can even be carried out, running down, so we are importing a great deal of gas. and the cost of the equipment needed on site is very Luckily, a lot of it comes from our friendly neighbour, high. That places a limit on the potential further reduction Norway, and we are not dependent to any meaningful in the cost of offshore wind. I hope it will come down extent on Russian gas for our consumption. However, somewhat—I am sure it will—but I do not envisage a we are importing a lot of liquefied natural gas. dramatic collapse in cost. Interestingly—this came out in the debate that we had a few weeks ago on what was then the Infrastructure Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ Bill—David MacKay’s report in September 2013 pointed Co-op): I also welcome today’s announcement, particularly out that net greenhouse gas emissions from imported in relation to the Neart na Gaoithe wind farm in the LNG are actually higher than those from shale gas firth of Forth. I take the hon. Gentleman’s point about extracted by fracking, so if we continue to use large cost, but surely he would agree that only through a amounts of imported LNG instead of exploiting what substantial increase in the volume of offshore wind will may be significant domestic reserves in the form of there be any possibility of the price falling. I also take shale gas, using fracking, which my Select Committee his point about consumption, but savings can be made has reported on twice and regards as potentially a safe there as well, through advances in technology. It would technology, we are locking ourselves into a slightly be wrong to give the impression that offshore wind will higher emission pattern. not be an important part of the package in future, particularly given our obvious advantages because of I believe that, no matter what, in the next 15 to our geographical situation. 20 years gas will remain an important part of our energy mix. It is completely unrealistic for people to Mr Yeo: I accept the hon. Gentleman’s point. I am assume that we can get by without consuming a great not suggesting that we should rule out offshore wind, deal of gas, so we should now press on with exploiting but I am suggesting that we should be mindful of our shale gas reserves. To do that, or even to determine the fact that at the moment it requires a much bigger how great those reserves may be, we need to start subsidy than some of the other renewable technologies, drilling. I regret the fact that there appears to be continued and we need to be hard-headed about what proportion delay, caused in part by local opposition, to embracing of our available resource we devote to it. that opportunity. Britain is of course the leader on offshore wind Britain could be the leader in Europe on shale gas. If worldwide, so we have already achieved a great deal. we get on with it now, we could write the European Interestingly, there are some relatively shallow waters in rulebook on shale gas. There would be benefits for Guangdong province in south-eastern China, and quite contractors, supply chain companies and others. There a big push is being made on offshore wind there as well. would be an economic advantage for the UK if we That may help the process of bringing the price down. delayed no further and pressed on with shale gas, as Offshore wind will remain an important part of the other countries would then follow our lead. They would energy mix, but I am concerned to ensure that we do overcome their current caution and follow us down the not allocate too much of the resource available through shale gas route. I therefore hope that we will not miss the levy control framework to offshore wind. that opportunity. It is just as unrealistic to assume that 181WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 182WH we can do without lots of gas in the next 15 years as it is answer is, “Let’s use this more efficiently. Let’s make to assume that if we close down all our nuclear power sure we can avoid the peaks in demand.” We may well stations, they can be replaced by low carbon renewables. not need any net increase in total capacity ever again. Of course, the lowest carbon energy of all is the It is therefore, in my view, unfortunate—I put it no energy that we do not use. In this context, I again urge more strongly than that—that the Government’s principal the Government to promote demand-side response. There adviser on these decisions is a privately owned company is still a great deal of misunderstanding about demand-side whose profits are made for its shareholders by investing response. Many people think that it means imposing in more transmission capacity. The National Grid, in power cuts on consumers without notice and against my view, is seriously conflicted in this matter. Quite their will. It means nothing of the sort. Demand-side understandably, it has a regulated UK domestic business, response today involves harnessing the latest technology the profits of which are directly increased if Ofgem to facilitate voluntary cuts in consumption at peak signs off investment programmes involving more periods by consumers who are paid for their ability to transmission, and more transmission is obviously needed switch off their power at very short notice. The prize, if if there are more power stations. Its profits, in the UK we embrace demand-side response, is enormous. It means market, could go down if we make a sufficient success that we can cut the total electricity generating capacity of demand-side response. We cannot hide from that that has to be maintained. At the moment, we have to conflict. I do not cast any aspersion on the integrity of have high levels of capacity available even though it National Grid’s management. They are doing an absolutely might be used only for a few days in the whole year. straightforward and proper job for their shareholders That is an incredibly wasteful arrangement. If we have a within the regulatory framework. However, we must not vibrant demand-side response sector, we will not have allow that to have an influence on how we see the to have so much capacity. Every consumer will benefit capacity market develop. from that, because at the moment every consumer is subsidising capacity that is scarcely ever used. The first round of auctions in the capacity market produced, I have to say, a pitiful allocation to demand-side Albert Owen: The hon. Gentleman makes a very respondents. This issue is extremely urgent. I know that interesting point. Of course, marine technology is DECC is looking at it, and a review is taking place of underdeveloped. If we had tidal, we could have greater how the auction will work at the end of this year. It is control. In different parts of the country, the tides very urgent that we ensure that the next auction has a would be producing different types of electricity. We on much more level playing field, so that demand-side the Committee on Energy and Climate Change looked respondents are able to bid into this market and get a at that, but not in enough detail. The Government need bigger share of it. to look seriously at developing not just offshore wind, It is a shaming outcome that the principal beneficiaries but the marine technology of tide and wave. of the capacity market auction appear to be the most polluting technologies, such as diesel farms and coal-fired Mr Yeo: I agree, and I am glad that Britain is at least power stations. That is exactly what we hoped to avoid. a world leader in research on some of the marine The review of the capacity mechanism is of great technologies. It is welcome that we are also, I believe, importance. Allied to that, we should ensure that as going to go ahead with experimental tidal lagoons in smart meters and other smart technologies are rolled the west country. The potential from those is enormous, out, they incorporate mechanisms that allow time-of-use but it would be greatly facilitated if we embraced more pricing to be introduced widely in a way that consumers demand-side response. It would also, of course, be can easily understand, and that does not penalise poorer greatly enhanced if our research on storage was successful consumers. Time-of-use pricing, allied to the demand-side in finding cheaper ways of storing electricity. That is response contribution, has the capacity to cut costs for another very urgent and hitherto somewhat overlooked consumers and reduce the need to maintain excessive area. amounts of capacity at all times.

Mark Lazarowicz: I was going to make the point that Let me give a plug to the importance of the carbon the hon. Gentleman made. As well as the issue of price. The biggest factor, in the long term, in investment investment in advanced technologies for storage, there decisions favouring low carbon technology will be a is the fact that there are some very tried and tested significant carbon price, which might be brought about technologies for storage that are not fully made use of. through carbon taxes or through emissions trading. Does he agree that that also needs to be ramped up by Personally, I have a preference for the latter; a cap-and-trade the Government? system has the great merit of making total emissions predictable. If there is a cap, there is a cap. If we rely entirely on carbon taxes, no one can be sure about the Mr Yeo: The hon. Gentleman is right. Storage generally, elasticity of the market’s response to a particular carbon quite apart from new technologies for storage, has been tax. under-emphasised by successive Governments. One of the problems is the mindset. There is a 20th-century I am pleased that the UK Government have been on mindset, dating back to the old days of the Central the side of those arguing for faster and more radical Electricity Generating Board. The overriding aim then reform of the EU emissions trading system. Unfortunately, was to ensure that people never had a power cut, so vast it is a work in progress, and there is still a lot to be done amounts of surplus capacity were maintained at all to try to make sure that the system is capable of driving times. The answer to every anxiety about whether we a significant carbon price before 2020. A carbon price were going to be short of capacity was, “Let’s build across the EU ETS will not penalise any one country, some more power stations.” That was a 20th-century because every country will have to face the same imposition. answer; it is not the 21st-century answer. The 21st-century Those who fear that a higher carbon price in the form 183WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 184WH of a domestic carbon tax would simply drive industry the reply by my hon. Friend the Minister, and I hope to other countries would not have that fear if the price that he will indicate that he and the Government share were driven through the EU ETS. my hopes for the future. I hope that the British Government will be among the leaders in the promotion of linkage between the EU 2.6 pm ETS and emerging emissions trading systems in other Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): It is always a pleasure parts of the world. My Committee published a report to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Brady. It is also a earlier this month, “Linking emissions trading systems”. pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South Suffolk We are encouraged, and even impressed, by the progress (Mr Yeo), the Chair of the Energy and Climate Change made over a short space of time by the emissions Committee, of which I am a member. I was impressed trading systems in China. We are also encouraged by by his very competent speech, and equally impressed by the establishment of an emissions trading system in the fact that he delivered it from the modern technology California, which is already linked to one of the Canadian of an iPad. He is the moderniser of the Conservative provinces. party, in many ways. I am pleased to have a quality Emissions trading is an idea that now has critical Front-Bench team on both sides of the Chamber; the mass, even though five years ago it seemed to be faltering. Minister and shadow Minister certainly know their If China rolls out a national system during the 13th five-year brief. In addition, the Minister knows my constituency, plan, as I am confident that it will, a third of the world’s so he is familiar with the places that I will talk about. I population will live in areas covered by emissions trading. look forward to knowledgeable wind-up speeches from If emissions trading spreads in the US, as I think it will, them. more than half the world’s GDP will come from places I come to the debate from a similar background to where emissions trading operates. The goal—in my view, that of the Chair of the Select Committee, who has just the wonderful goal—of a global cap-and-trade system spoken eloquently about energy matters. Energy security starts to come into view. I hope that that will be kept in and food security are issues that successive Governments mind at the Paris COP meeting at the end of the year. have taken seriously, and which they must take even The fifth and most recent assessment report from the more seriously. In the first Queen’s Speech debate of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change proposed this Parliament, I indicated that I would concentrate on the concept of a maximum level of greenhouse gas two subjects during this Parliament: energy and energy emissions that can safely be allowed if the world is to security, and food farming and food security. I think keep within the target of an average rise in temperature that they will be dominant features of future debates. of no more than 2° centigrade. A maximum safe level of On climate change, there are various similarities between emissions leads naturally to the idea of a global cap-and- my views and the hon. Gentleman’s. I have studied the trade system, with that maximum as the cap. Although matter for some time. The first job I ever had was to be that dream will not be realised in the next five years, we a galley boy on an oil tanker, just after the middle east should keep it in mind. The danger is that we will lock crisis. I remember the debates that took place at the ourselves into systems that are incompatible with the time about oil sanctions and the conflict in Israel, and achievement of that goal. their global impact. We have learned nothing since In conclusion, I believe that if Britain decarbonises then. At the time, we were talking about greater security, its electricity generation system, our economy will become but when we had a windfall of oil and gas we more or more competitive, not less. International concern over less squandered it. We did not invest in some of the climate change will intensify quickly over the next few technologies that we are about to invest in, and that we years. That will lead to a significant carbon price, either have invested in during recent years. I believe that that from emissions trading or from carbon taxes. Countries, was a wasted opportunity. industries, companies and perhaps even households I disagree with the hon. Gentleman that this Government that have taken the lead in decarbonising their economies, are the greenest ever. For many of the things that the business models and patterns of consumption will enjoy Government have delivered, the consents were arranged greater prosperity, not less. Decarbonising electricity by the previous Government. A lot of the hard work will also promote security of energy supply and accelerate was done in the Climate Change Act 2008, and things the cutting of greenhouse gas emissions. I hope that such as the renewables obligation and the feed-in tariffs Britain will continue to be a leader in that process. In were the work of the previous Government. It is important the way in which it achieves that leadership, I hope it to note that a consensus was built between the main will keep clearly in mind the importance of getting the parties at the time so that we could deliver continuity on best value for money in each decision that is made to such long-term projects. achieve decarbonisation. I emphasise the fact that the There have been problems. I remember that when I decisions we make today have a long-term effect. arrived in the House in 2001, we had energy review after I believe that the Government can claim to be the energy review, and nuclear was the big issue that split greenest Government ever because of what they have the Labour Government. It split the Opposition as well, done in the past four and a half years and, importantly, and I remember the current Prime Minister hugging because of their ambitions for the future. The truth is huskies in one of the colder regions of the world, trying that the benchmark for the accolade of “the greenest to embrace Greenpeace and being very anti-nuclear, to Government ever” is not a demanding one, because no the extent of thinking that it would be the last resort. previous Government could really claim to have been Nuclear is now the Government’s flagship, and I am particularly green. The next five years will, therefore, be pleased about that change. The Secretary of State for judged against a benchmark that is slightly more Energy and Climate Change is another convert to the demanding, and that benchmark will become progressively cause, which I welcome. I remember debating the subject more demanding in future. I look forward very much to with him when I first came to the House, and not only 185WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 186WH was he against nuclear but his party was never going to constituency that has nuclear energy, early onshore go down that road, yet we are now moving in the right wind and the potential for biomass and marine technology. direction and building consensus. People write to me who are anti each of those things, The low carbon economy has great potential for which it is very easy to be. We have to be sensible and creating jobs, boosting GDP and making us a world have a balanced, mixed energy policy. leader in many technologies. I am pleased that there is We need to take the public with us, and the House now common ground for an energy mix. I say this in needs to show leadership and send the right signals to most energy debates, but I am unashamedly pro-nuclear, business and consumers. As we build, energy security pro-renewable and pro-energy efficiency. I see absolutely will build a better economy with high-skilled jobs. My no contradiction in holding those three views. We need constituency is an island, and we have run on the the base load that nuclear can provide, along with clean “energy island” label. We have done many proactive coal and gas, and we need the flexibility that renewables things. The nuclear power station, which has been operable give us. The hon. Member for South Suffolk mentioned since 1971, is the core. Before that, there was a huge peak demand. When we come down from peak demand, construction phase on which my father worked. He was we must be able to switch off some of our technologies very much in favour of nuclear power because, in the so that the right supply goes through the grid transmission 1960s and 1970s, he was given the impression that, as system. We need that balance and, of course, we need to we had cheap gas, oil and nuclear energy, electricity reduce use through energy efficiency measures to curb would be so cheap that it would be difficult to meter. emissions. I welcome the progress on that over the past That has not come to fruition, of course, but nuclear 10 or 15 years. has provided a stable base load. Nuclear has been I am a member of the Energy and Climate Change important in providing safe generation, jobs and skills. Committee. In this Parliament, we have made an important We were once the world leader, but we have let that slip. contribution to shaping the debate on energy. The I slightly disagree with the hon. Gentleman, who said Committee has held inquiries into various energy sources, that the previous Government did nothing. Very little from marine technology to shale gas. As the Committee’s was done in the 1980s and 1990s, and that continued Chair indicated, we held an inquiry into shale gas early into the noughties, too. Privatisation was framed on gas in the Parliament, and in 2011 encouraged the Government and electricity, and nuclear was difficult for the Government to make progress. I am afraid that the Government’s to sell. There was a lack of enthusiasm for reinvesting in initial response was not positive, and here we are again and updating the technology. Because the technologies, saying that nuclear is a flagship and the way forward. such as magnox, were bespoke, it was difficult to move We are shaping the debate in many ways. We have forward, so there was a phase when there was little considered prices and the future affordability of energy investment. The planning system was problematic, too. for domestic consumers and businesses. We have scrutinised We have resolved many of those things and, again, the profits of the energy companies, which was positive. much of the spadework was done by the previous We also considered the issues of fuel poverty. We have Government. I applaud this Government for proceeding done a good job. All those inquiries have been topical with large infrastructure. There is a good planning and interesting, and the public understand their importance. system for such large projects. All parties in the House can agree on the need for On the island of Anglesey, the energy island, we not stability and certainty on energy policy. That is what only have nuclear. We have a plan for an eco-park, at the businesses and consumers want, and politicians need to core of which will be a 300 MW biomass generator. The shape a policy whereby we can offer such certainty for vast majority of that electricity will go into the national investors, whatever technology we are talking about. grid, with the waste from the generator and from a fish We can benefit from creating a thriving low carbon farm being used to grow plants. The eco-park, which economy through energy generation. A low carbon will be self-contained, will also have a distribution economy will go through a number of phases. Importantly, centre. There will be an opportunity for local direct grid today we are talking about energy generation, but there investment, too. Exciting ideas are coming from low is also the phase of surface transport, of cars and trains, carbon energy development. which are hugely important for the future. How will we The Horizon nuclear project at Wylfa Newydd, or carry goods and people across the United Kingdom Wylfa B, is exciting. Investors, including Hitachi, have efficiently not only in terms of speed and time but in proceeded with that project, and I recently went to the terms of energy? We will need to move away from diesel site with the shadow Secretary of State for Energy and and petrol towards electricity, which is a huge task. We Climate Change, my right hon. Friend the Member for also need to consider sea transport and the built Don Valley (Caroline Flint). The site is vast and has environment. This is phase 1 of a long-term plan to created 1,000 permanent jobs. Importantly, there will be decarbonise our economy, and there will be important indirect jobs in the supply chain, too. The Leader of the economic decisions that create benefits. Opposition also went to the site when he was Secretary The debate over the past five or six years has been of State for Energy and Climate Change—the project interesting to say the least. Unfortunately, it has been started in 2008-09. hijacked by certain newspapers and different wings of The shadow Secretary of State and I also visited the the print media, which have shaped and coloured some energy centre, which is training and upskilling young of the political debate in the House. That is unfortunate people. We saw local apprentices between the ages of because the consensus between the previous Government 17 and 20 who have an opportunity to use their skills in and the then Opposition, and between the current the local energy sector. Bringing and keeping prosperity Opposition and the coalition, has been good for providing in the area is something that we should add to this debate, the stability and certainty that is needed. We tend to because young people are important to our economy. react, and it is easy to be anti something. I represent a The skills they are learning are not only usable in the 187WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 188WH nuclear sector; they are transferable, high-quality engineering could also be pioneers in the development of many of skills. In the construction phase of Wylfa Newydd there those technologies, showing the way for the rest of is talk of some 6,000 to 8,000 construction jobs, which will Europe. be high-skilled in many cases. There will be opportunities Energy security will still be on the agenda for decades for local businesses and individuals to work in the to come. The decisions made by the previous Government environment. There is cross-party recognition of the and carried forward by this one—I welcome many of importance of vocational skills, which in the future will the things that this Government have done—need to have parity with academic skills. move forward to give the stability and certainty that I The energy island concept is more than just nuclear; have discussed, so that investors, whether indigenous or it involves biomass as well, and there are opportunities foreign, can look to the United Kingdom and say, “This for offshore wind. The Celtic array has been shelved for is the place where we want to invest in new and low now, but Centrica was talking of huge investment. That carbon technologies to generate the electricity that potential not only benefits energy companies but the companies need and domestic consumers want, at affordable marine sector. In my constituency, we have an excellent prices for consumers.” We need to create top-quality company, Holyhead Boatyard, which runs tugs around jobs so that we can be a world leader and the United the world and has moved into facilitating the offshore Kingdom can move forward. wind sector around the world with purpose-built boats. This is not just a debate at the fag end of a zombie Its turbine transfer skill base ranges from apprentices to Parliament; it is a restatement of the fact that we as a master mariners, with top engineering jobs in between. United Kingdom are forward-looking when it comes to It builds crafts in the United Kingdom and maintains climate change and low carbon energy, and that we will offshore wind. There is huge potential for low carbon create the quality jobs, education, training and transferable energy sources such as offshore wind to benefit the skills that are needed to make UK plc and Anglesey United Kingdom, its ports and the maritime industries. energy island world leaders. That local company has an international reputation and employs people locally who also have the opportunity to travel. 2.25 pm As the hon. Member for South Suffolk mentioned, Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ solar energy is a huge success story for the United Co-op): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Kingdom, although many parts are imported and assembled Mr Brady. I congratulate the hon. Member for South here. Onshore wind is controversial—I remind the House Suffolk (Mr Yeo) on securing this debate. As he said, it that Anglesey was an early pioneer of many early wind is a shame that there are not more people here taking farms. I must say that I am not a fan of onshore wind part. It is a sharp contrast with the debates that we had farms due to their sheer scale. They are four or five in the past few weeks during the closing stages of the times the size of the original ones on Anglesey. We Infrastructure Bill. Many people who seemed interested should be developing offshore, and not just for aesthetic in one particular aspect of the Bill applying to energy reasons of how they look on the landscape; the wind policy are not here today, nor are Members from some resource is better offshore, and as wind technology of the smaller parties represented in the House. It is a develops, they will be of greater benefit offshore. I agree shame that they are not here to take part in this debate. that we can get down to grid parity in the future, as has In his wide-ranging contribution, the hon. Member been indicated, if we invest long-term in offshore wind. for South Suffolk touched on numerous important and Research and development are important—we have significant issues. Apart from some slightly more partisan also taken the lead there—as are links between the points that he made, there was quite a lot with which I energy industry, electricity generation and low carbon, agreed. He will probably not be surprised by that, as we and colleges and universities. The university of Bangor have debated many of these issues in the past five years. in my constituency has a faculty on Anglesey, the School As he said, there is a degree of consensus on them. It is of Ocean Sciences, which has been pioneering climate always important that we do not let consensus slip into change research not just on UK and European shores complacency, but there are good reasons to seek consensus, but in the south Atlantic, where it has been doing because the energy and investment decisions that we are excellent work on climate change. We can give individuals discussing will last a lot longer than any of us are likely career paths not only in the operation of energy generation to be in this House, and longer than any Government and low carbon, but also in research and development, last. They are often long-term decisions, and it is important software technologies and all the things that I have seen that we debate, discuss and scrutinise them with that in that faculty use on Anglesey. There is great potential for mind. jobs in construction, engineering, mechanics, security, I am pleased to see the hon. Member for Wyre and catering and supplies in the area. All those downstream Preston North (Mr Wallace) in his place again. The jobs help build a more prosperous economy in areas Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate where energy development is going forward. Change, the right hon. Member for West Suffolk (Matthew This is an important debate. The United Kingdom is Hancock) is not here. I think I might have upset him; leading in many such technologies. If we have a proper whenever we have a debate in this Chamber or on a long-term plan for energy with consensus and certainty, statutory instrument, the hon. Member for Wyre and we can benefit GDP. I call Anglesey the energy island, Preston North seems to be here in his place. That is a and we are going forward with that concept, but of good thing, as he is more than capable of explaining course Britain is an island, and Anglesey could be a and discussing the Government’s position, and of course microcosm for the whole of Britain. Britain could be a the Energy Minister is a busy and important man who leader on the European continent. As an island, we probably has busy and important things to do elsewhere. could be self-sufficient using new technologies, but we However, he might benefit from coming to some of 189WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 190WH these debates, because they help illustrate the wide which was advocated by non-governmental organisations range of issues that come within his Department’s brief with a particular interest, but a lot of businesses advocated and that we seek to discuss. a 2030 decarbonisation target, too. The cross-party The hon. Member for South Suffolk started by talking amendment that he supported did not make it into the about climate change and the need to tackle it, mentioning Act, sadly, but it was supported by people in various the statement from the leaders of the three larger parties parties. There is need for a longer-term signal; that is within the last week or so. It is important to remember significant. that the reduction in emissions from energy, as my hon. Issues around the costs of offshore wind are partly to Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) said, do with scale, and that is partly to do with opportunities is only part of the challenge in terms of emissions; there for manufacturing and the supply chain, which require are also challenges in relation to transport, heating and a long-term signal to invest. Although I welcome Siemens’ industry. However, in energy supply and electricity, investment in Hull, there could be much more investment significant progress can be made. The hon. Member for if we had a stronger sense of direction and targets that South Suffolk, and my hon. Friend the Member for could give the certainty and predictability that Members Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz) in an talked about to enable investment. intervention, mentioned today’s announcement on the The hon. Gentleman talked about lowest-cost contracts for difference auctions. decarbonisation. I tend to prefer best-value decarbonisation. The hon. Member for South Suffolk said that Britain There is value in seeking to ensure that various technologies was in the lead on offshore wind. Actually—it gives me are developed, and that we do not run the risk of no great pleasure to say this—it is England that is in the missing out on technologies that can help, particularly lead on offshore wind, because there is 20 times more in relation to renewables that may be less intermittent installed capacity in English waters than in Scottish than those that are currently commercial viable. It is waters, despite the claims that are sometimes made. important that we continue, as my hon. Friend the However, a number of projects in Scotland have been Member for Ynys Môn said, with the research going on successful in the auctions, including an offshore wind at the university in his constituency. Just in the past few project, which has been referred to. I hope that that months, at the university of Hull, I have seen software gives us in Scotland an opportunity to make some development to help cut the costs of installing offshore progress. Of course, that is underpinned by the UK-wide wind without compromising safety, for example. I have system of support that we enjoy, which benefits Scotland seen the energy research centre at the university of hugely in terms of being able to develop renewable Strathclyde under the leadership of Professor Sir Jim technologies, and which benefits everybody in all parts McDonald, and, in Edinburgh, the facility for testing of the UK in terms of the power that is therefore marine technology. Those are all good examples of the supplied. great academic and research expertise that should benefit The discussion in the past few days on the potential the UK more widely. Economic benefits can come from closure of Longannet coal-fired power station in Scotland the inevitable and desirable need to move to a much illustrates that we have an increasing imbalance in the lower carbon mix for our generation supply. energy supply in Scotland. We have to be careful to ensure The hon. Member for South Suffolk celebrated the that we do not end up having to import energy from broad consensus on new nuclear being part of the mix. England to Scotland, as is now the case, for at least part He may have been slightly churlish in his comments of one day in six to keep the lights on, particularly at about party political support, because he will know that times of high demand and when the wind is not blowing. Brian Wilson, a former Energy Minister and Member Members may not have been where I was between of this House, began the process of identifying sites and Christmas and new year, but it was very cold. There was agreeing the process. It is important to get that right to no wind at all, and, without power from other parts of give the confidence that the hon. Member for South the UK coming to Scotland, the lights may have gone Suffolk spoke about. It is important to maintain confidence out, which would have been serious. That is why I following Fukushima, but the process was established maintain that we need a balanced energy mix, and that at a time when his party leader said that nuclear was a is probably the view of everybody taking part in this last resort, and the party of the Secretary of State for debate. Energy and Climate Change was implacably opposed to There are a range of low carbon technologies. Sometimes nuclear. I am glad that we have got to a position where people make the mistake of assuming that low carbon there is support for new nuclear as a low carbon-based equals renewable. Renewables are a significant part of technology in the lower carbon mix, and I hope that low carbon technology, but not the full suite. We have continues. had some discussion this afternoon on nuclear, which I The hon. Member for South Suffolk was right to will say a little more about shortly. There are other make the points about affordability and cost. The European potential technologies, including carbon capture and Commission was able to find significant cost savings in storage if it can be developed, that can help to meet its scrutiny of the agreement between the Government some of the emissions targets as we renew our generation and EDF. That indicates the importance of ensuring fleet. that a proper eye is kept on costs in the nuclear sector. The hon. Member for South Suffolk touched on the We do not want to compromise safety, but we want to attitude of business, and said how refreshing it was that make sure that things are done effectively and as affordably in his time as an advocate of low carbon technology, the as possible. If not, we run the risk of seeking technology attitude of business seemed to have changed, which is to that seems very expensive compared with alternatives. be welcomed. He will recall our debates on what is now Although those alternatives do not provide the same the Energy Act 2013. We discussed various issues, broad range of advantages, on paper nuclear will look particularly around longer-term targets for decarbonisation, much more expensive. It is important that the industry 191WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 192WH takes a role, as well as regulators and the Government, finance at RBS gave oral evidence to the Bill Committee, to ensure that that is done in the most efficient way saying that the 2030 decarbonisation target was possible. “absolutely critical from the conversations I have with potential The hon. Gentleman spoke about the capacity supply-chain investors because they…point out that it is very difficult for them to take investment to their board if they really mechanism. Whoever is in government post-May will only have visibility on three or four years’ worth of work.”––[Official have to make important decisions in relation to applicability Report, Energy Public Bill Committee, 15 January 2013; c. 51, and how the next capacity market auction happens. I Q154.] still have a degree of doubt as to why existing nuclear That is where we are, because we have visibility to 2020 power should be included in the capacity market, but through the levy control framework, but not beyond his points about demand-side management are well that. Again, that is an important issue for the next made. It seems a very small amount in the first round, Government to address properly when taking forward and that should be addressed. I welcome the fact that the levy control framework and considering both its the Government have moved in relation to interconnection. structure and the amounts. It is also important in That is another important and potentially efficient way respect of the longer-term decarbonisation target. of being able to meet some of the objectives. Mr Yeo: I omitted to say something: the hon. Gentleman The hon. Gentleman touched on the amount of gas is right to draw attention to the importance of long-term that we need. Members here today will know that predictability and support. I and my Committee believe 80% of our heating comes from gas. We will continue to it would help if the next Government committed to an need gas for heating for a significant period. We will annual rolling update of the levy control framework also need gas as a source of peaking power capacity, so totals, so that it is always set for seven years ahead. That the debate around the sustainability of our gas supplies would facilitate investment decisions, and would therefore and where they come from is an important one. I note tend slightly to reduce the cost of investment and that the Committee on Climate Change has published consumer prices. new information, following the debates on the Infrastructure Bill, on how shale gas might be a part of the mix, in line Tom Greatrex: The hon. Gentleman makes an important with climate objectives. point about the cost of risk and uncertainty. Whoever is On the wider debate on shale, it is important to make in Government in a few weeks needs to look quite early sure that regulation is properly robust, and that the on at how the levy control framework will be taken monitoring is comprehensive, to ensure public confidence forward—at both the structure of the mechanism and before anything takes place. Also, we need to ensure the amounts. It is not just about the amounts of money; that any exploration or extraction is done in the context it is about the way the mechanism is calibrated and of the wider carbon commitments. The hon. Gentleman taken forward. Whoever is Energy Minister in 72 days’ probably agrees with that. That is how the debate should time, they should have the report of the hon. Gentleman’s be taken forward, although I realise that that is sometimes Committee in their in-tray to consider, among other difficult, particularly as we get closer to the general issues. election. I have touched on demand-side response. The Select Committee has done important work on that. The My hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn, who is a exchange of correspondence between the Committee member of the Select Committee that the hon. Member Chair and the Energy Minister was interesting and for South Suffolk chairs, made several important points. indicates, I hope, that there is still some opportunity for He made a point about consensus—considered consensus, the Government to take that matter more seriously, as I say, rather than complacency—which is important going forward. I hope that that is also the case for the when we are dealing with long-term policy. It is right next round of capacity market auctions, which will that Government policy be properly scrutinised, but we happen towards the end of this calendar year. need to do that with an eye to the long-term objective that we want to meet. The technology that we have not really touched on is carbon capture and storage. No serious modelling of My hon. Friend spoke on a number of issues that the our energy mix in 2030 does not include a role for fossil Select Committee has touched on recently, including fuel plants and industrial processes running carbon the debate on the generation of low carbon technology capture and storage. CCS is a key tool that we need to and the importance of stability in policy. As I said, meet our decarbonisation agenda. We must use it in a stability is important if we are to attract investment and way that helps sustain some industrial processes that secure the maximum possible economic benefits. He are important for our wider manufacturing base; we also talked about issues in his area and mentioned must not just offshore that activity.We sometimes overlook Anglesey Energy Island. The Minister knows that part the potential cost savings of meeting carbon targets. of the world well, and I have been there. It is a beautiful Hon. Members will be aware of the Energy Technologies part of the world and, from what my hon. Friend said, Institute estimate that states that deploying CCS could it is a place where there is a huge amount of creativity, reduce the cost of meeting UK carbon targets by between and where people are coming up with some potentially £30 billion and £40 billion, or up to 1% of GDP, by good opportunities in terms of energy. It is not just 2050. That is an important piece of work. about the nuclear power station; it is about a number of We in the UK have a degree of academic and expert different things, particularly decentralised energy, which knowledge in this area. We know that lots of work is he talked about. going on in places such as Edinburgh. Two projects are Issues around investment and business certainty are currently undergoing front-end engineering design studies. important. My hon. Friend was on the Committee On taking forward the tools and mechanisms for low considering the Energy Bill, which became the Energy carbon investment, it is important that the contracts for Act 2013, and he will recall that the head of energy difference are tweaked as needed so that they are appropriate 193WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 194WH for CCS development into the future, because it would pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work. He will be missed, be remiss of us to have two exemplar projects funded as will the sensible way the reports have been presented through the competition, and for nothing else to come to the Government. after that. The key to that is ensuring that the contract There are only 19 sitting days left in this Parliament. for difference is properly applicable to CCS, which is a That is a rather scary number for all of us. I noted the differently structured investment to new nuclear or many kind comments made by the hon. Member for Rutherglen renewable technologies. It would be good for whoever is and Hamilton West. I am not sure who will be the in Government in a few weeks’ time to be clear about Energy Minister in 70 days. He will certainly make a their ambition for CCS, and to seek to unblock issues fine Energy Minister—if he is successful. I cannot wish that have caused some delay in the progress of CCS. him that success; I would not do that. I would certainly I am conscious that there has been a lot of talk about not want Russell Brand or Alex Salmond as Energy consensus in this debate, particularly with regard to the Minister. The main parties are all in a good place, policy tools for incentivising low carbon investments. engaging in grown-up politics in working towards a Unfortunately, in other debates in this House over the proper energy policy. It is important to note that among past five years, the consensus on the need for such the most vocal opponents of the Infrastructure Bill was investment has become a little bit frayed. Having only the Scottish National party, whose Members have failed been here for five years, my sense is that, among some to turn up for today’s debate. They are no doubt posturing hon. Members, that consensus has deteriorated. It is on some other subject this week. They are not even here right that the costs of decarbonisation be properly to claim credit for some of the successful CfD contracts scrutinised, and that people carefully consider the potential that have been offered today. We should not forget that impact of technologies in different places, but we should we will only solve Britain’s energy crisis as Britain. We all resolve the matter for the future—beyond the election, will only keep the lights on as Britain, not as separate for those of us who might be here. We need to ensure countries focusing on what divides us, rather than what that consensus again, so that we can renew our generation unites us. supply in the lowest carbon way possible, and in a way Today’s debate is timely, because the CfD auction results that benefits the UK’s wider economy. I hope, regardless have just been published. We have offered contracts—they of party political differences on other issues, that this obviously have not been accepted yet—to 27 projects. can be taken forward in the new Parliament, because it The good news is that the CfD auction showed that, is far too important not to be. amongst other things, competition has worked. We have had a good result from our focus on trying to ensure 2.47 pm that we provide value for money for the bill payer, and on increasing energy generation. The auction price for Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con): I solar, for example, was 58% less than the administrative am delighted to serve under your Chairmanship, Mr Brady. strike price. It was 18% less for offshore wind and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South 17% less for onshore wind. The value for money that Suffolk (Mr Yeo). I am not sure if this will be the last that represents helped lever in £45 billion of investment time we debate and listen to his contributions, but I pay into the energy market between 2010 and 2013. I am tribute to his work for his constituents and for his party always trying to explain to people in different sectors in serving the Government over the years, and to his that there is only so much money in this world chasing work for the Committee on Energy and Climate Change. only so much investment. We have to make investment The Committee has done an amazing job, not only in attractive to money or it will go elsewhere—not just building the consensus that the hon. Member for Rutherglen domestically, but internationally. and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) mentioned, but in Both this Government and the previous Government demonstrating to someone like me that people do not have done a good job in recognising that we have to have to live in a tepee to be green and do not have to create the conditions to get investment into high-risk switch off the lights and go backwards. To roll out a areas and those with maturing technology. The CfD proper, successful, renewables-based energy policy, people process has been a real success. Let us remember that have not only to understand targets for carbon reduction the aim is to reduce carbon emissions. The UK will emit and the pressure of global warming; they have to understand 4 million fewer tonnes of CO2 emissions a year as a the real world as it is, including finance, investment, risk result of the auction. No one can say that that is a bad and technologies. My hon. Friend has done a tremendous result. It puts us on the right path to meeting our aim of job as Committee Chair in bringing along both sceptic reducing carbon emissions. At the same time, we have and enthusiast with the policy of renewables, and with shown that, if we seek a stable framework, people want an energy policy that has satisfied many of the historical to come forward and share the risk. The overall cost of splits across the parties that we have seen over the past production will reduce over that period, and I hope that 20 or 30 years. by the end of the first 15 years—or whatever the time Ministers could do a lot more listening to Select scale is—the actual production costs of many of these Committees, especially my hon. Friend’s, which has generators will be even lower. I hope the Government of genuinely helped policy makers and has brought together the day will remain attuned to when a technology moves the main parties in reaching a proper, grown-up solution from “maturing”to “mature”, when they need to incentivise to providing energy security and meeting our carbon newer technologies further down the path, and when reduction targets. My hon. Friend’s Committee marks a they perhaps need to let go of more mature technologies refreshing change. Members present will have spent that have run their course over many years. time in other sectors of Government such as the Ministry I again make the point that 11 of the 27 projects are of Justice, where constant party politicking goes on, or in Scotland. That is a good news story for Scotland. I disagreement is often more important than consensus. I pay tribute to Scottish Labour Members who have 195WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 196WH lobbied hard on behalf of the Scottish renewables industry that urgency in the near future. Whoever is in government, and their constituents. That would not have happened we will all be working to ensure that that long-term in such an easy way if we were two separate countries. indication is in place. I hear with open heart and open All our bill payers will be sharing the burden of electricity mind the recommendation for a rolling seven-year generation. As the shadow Minister said, when there was framework to ensure that we keep things up to date. In not much wind blowing in parts of Scotland or when my opinion, that would help to reflect advances in Scotland had to rely on our market in England, it was technologies as they develop. If we understand the just a formality; there was no artificial barrier to that impact that technologies have as they roll through, we happening. People who are attracted by the Scottish might understand how much influence they will have on nationalists or the agenda of separation should remember levies and everything else. that independence would fundamentally undermine and There is obviously a long list of renewables that we damage Britain’s ability to provide electricity for all its could talk about. The Government have clearly been citizens across all the isles. That needs to be fully taken happy to encourage offshore wind farm developments. on board. We hear the fears about the high strike price and Given the competitive drive to reduce the cost or expense of offshore wind, but the CfD auction has strike price, which has been a good thing, we think the shown that the direction is downwards. As the technologies CfD auction will result in average annual savings of have developed and competition has been brought in, £41 per family bill. The hon. Member for Ynys Môn we have started to reduce the offshore price, which I (Albert Owen) is right: I love Anglesey. When we go on hope in the medium to long term will converge to be not holiday there, I can look out the window and see the red so different from the onshore price, or near enough. light shining on what used to be the Rio Tinto tower. I The Government are obviously committed to onshore am happy, as are the Government, to work to ensure projects as a way of generating energy. We are at a stage that any barriers to biomass are addressed in the next where many of us who see applications in our constituencies round of CfDs. That could include help to reduce risks should and can say—the Government have shown this for biomass investment. By working together, we can with where they have chosen not to support onshore ensure that biomass has a better showing in the next wind farms—that investors should think carefully about round. Personally, I would like that project to be successful. whether they bring forward planning applications for a I know how important energy is to the island of Anglesey well-sited, well-researched location, or indulge in the and the pragmatic approach it takes. It would be good speculative, lazy applications that we see in our news for Holyhead if that project was successful. I am constituencies. Out of the blue, a speculative application always happy to help ensure that biomass is embraced. happens, and that is often what upsets and surprises On the subject of the capacity market, securing our constituents, coming as it does without any indication energy security is incredibly important. It is all very well of logic or anything else. In those cases, the message encouraging generation, but if the lights go out and we should be loud and clear: “Do your research and work. have not worked together to ensure that there is always Make sure that you are not speculating and trying to some capacity, that is almost for nothing. The auction garner profit for profit’s sake rather than trying to fit for the capacity market recently completed. We secured into the community.” 49.3 GW at a clearing price of £19.40 per kW for delivery in 2018-19, which is good news. Consumers [SANDRA OSBORNE in the Chair] and the public can be sure that, alongside our commitment The biggest drop in price in the CfD auction was to develop renewables, we have also achieved more solar’s 58% drop. The Government support solar at all security and secured more capacity. levels, including below 5 MW, and with the feed-in I know that my hon. Friend the Member for South tariffs. It has been encouraging to see how the solar Suffolk is a keen supporter of demand-side response. I industry has been imaginative in finding new sites that asked officials to see an example of DSR, because how get the sun—for example, by renting roofs. The Government we use electricity efficiently and how we reduce demand are certainly committed in the long term to ensuring are as important as how we cater for demand at other that solar is part of the mix. We want it to be successful, times. I urge Members to look at the example of ExCel, and I hope to see more bids in the next CfD round. the big London exhibition site, which uses Flexitricity and has a genuinely good case model in how it uses Albert Owen: Before the Minister moves on from diesel generators that switch on and off as demand renewable energy, I am not making a partisan point, but requires. Flexitricity can control some of the generation does he share my frustration at the lack of development remotely, reducing waste on the grid, and I hope to see of commercial-scale marine energy? There have been a more of that. The Department and I have certainly lot of good demonstrations of it that have not moved heard loud and clear my hon. Friend and his forward. What more does he think can be done to make recommendation of and enthusiasm for DSR, which I it happen? Everyone agrees on the potential of wave hope is given a more prominent role in the next few and tidal energy, but it has not increased in scale. Since I years. have been a Member of this House—I was interested in energy from day one—it has always been three or four Other Ministers might get home or to their offices to years hence, but it has not happened. What can be done find that the locks have been changed, because this is so that we can get good commercial projects up and the second debate I have been at where Members have running in order to get the predictable energy supply clearly demanded a future levy control framework and that we need? said that it is required. We hear that urgency. It is no comfort, but with only 19 sitting days to go, I anticipate Mr Wallace: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that the Secretary of State will not be revealing that that question, because I too remember the grander schemes, framework any time soon. We will certainly recognise such as the Severn barrage and the Wyre barrage in my 197WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 198WH constituency. They were quite large-scale, ambitious The last thing mentioned by the hon. Member for schemes. I checked before I came to the debate, and one Rutherglen and Hamilton West was carbon capture and of the Department’s priorities is the Swansea lagoon storage. We cannot avoid the fact that it will be part of barrage. If we can get that up and running successfully, an ability in which we must invest, and which we must it is the kind of thing that will quickly trigger a roll-out develop to complement our energy generation over the elsewhere. As he says, wave and tidal energy have been next 20, 30 or 40 years. We cannot just pretend and have just over the horizon for as long as I have been involved it as a tokenistic thing. It is going to be a fact and we in such issues, but we are getting to a stage where the must invest in it. The Government are doing what they scale is right and not over-ambitious. From what I can can to help investment in the process. As with the barrage tell, local businesses and people are supportive of the and tidal schemes, I look forward to the day when we scheme in Swansea, so we should all try to help it to start the process and get the pipelines and everything become a reality and sing its praises far and wide, else in place. Whoever is in Government, it is worth should it be a success. monitoring and investing in carbon capture and storage. I hope that colleagues have felt that today’s debate has cemented the view that the current energy policy is Albert Owen: I fully support the plans for Swansea. travelling in the right direction for this country. It is In my area, where there is good tidal flow, we have had a based on reducing carbon emissions, encouraging different demonstration from Marine Current Turbines and Siemens, technologies and getting value for money for the bill and we have seen the technology working in Strangford payer. We cannot pretend that those issues are separate; lough. Siemens did not take it to the next stage. The they have to be hand in hand. We have to carry the Government have done what they can. There are good public with us if we are going to develop energy policy renewable obligations and support in Scotland and successfully. We should be not pleased, but happy that other places, but schemes have just not gone far enough. the CfD auction proved that things are going in the I understand what the Minister says about scale, but I right direction. am not talking about a large-scale project; it could have developed in sections and become bigger. There is something The economic benefits are clear. Since 2010, we estimate missing. Will he consider that so that we can move that more than £30 billion has been invested in electricity forward with tidal energy? generation, principally in renewable technologies. In previous years, it might not have been the case, but that money has gone principally on renewable technologies, Mr Wallace: I am happy to ask the Department and £30 billion does not grow on trees. If we cannot get about its observations on why Siemens did not choose investment from the markets and the private sector, in to go forward, because we can learn from that. It may the end we will have to get it from the taxpayer. It is a have been a commercial decision or there may have good thing that we have helped to change not only been an internal conflict of interest because the company Government policy but investment policy and thinking wanted to focus on another technology, but it would be in this country. As someone who, to some extent, came good to find out and move forward. late to the energy debate, I am grateful for the work of the Select Committee and for its reports. I find them My constituency borders the two current shale gas incredibly educational and I know that the Department sites. I want to put the Government’s position on the finds them very useful in helping to create and shape record: we are absolutely clear that we are not determined new policy for the years to come. to rush for gas or to throw everything out just to get fracking going. The Government are in favour of fracking, Before finishing, I repeat my tribute to my hon. but we want to be its arbitrator. We want to listen to the Friend the Member for South Suffolk. I thank him for science behind it. We do not want to be in the pocket of his work with the Select Committee and for his work for the oil and gas companies or the green movement. The the whole House as well. Government’s role is to take a pragmatic approach and ensure that shale gas proceeds, learning from all the 3.8 pm experience around the world and from all the environmental Mr Yeo: I am sure I carry everyone here with me studies and impacts that have happened, and use our when I say what an excellent debate this was, with position to ensure that we set a gold standard. We must exceptionally high-quality contributions—I do not expect move forward where we can, mitigating the effects on to be challenged on that verdict. The numbers taking local communities through sovereign wealth funds and part may have been small, but the quality could not local community funding, but also through the planning have been higher, as one would expect, given that I have conditions that can be set by mineral rights authorities. debated all these issues with exactly the same hon. Shale gas will and must be in the mix at some stage. I Members on more than one occasion. would rather buy my gas from Britain than from Mr Putin, I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for his generous so if people have objections on human rights grounds, comments about my Committee’s work and about my there is one reason. I would rather not compress gas in personal contribution to discussions on these issues big ships and take it around the sea if it is possible to get over a number of years—that is very much appreciated. it from Britain. The Government’s position is not simply This is likely to be the last time I speak in Westminster to progress recklessly on shale gas at any cost. Opponents Hall, although I cannot say I have great regrets about of shale gas often paint it as if the rush for gas is true, having only 19 sitting days left. Perhaps I should apologise but that is not the case. As we saw recently in the debates to my hon. Friend, who is also my Whip, because I may on the Infrastructure Bill—the Government accepted have missed a Division last night, although the opportunity Opposition amendments—we will work to ensure that for doing that is diminishing very quickly—this is the the industry is safe, that constituents are not affected first time I have used a debate to acknowledge such unnecessarily, and that we all benefit from the process. things. 199WH Low Carbon Energy Generation26 FEBRUARY 2015 Low Carbon Energy Generation 200WH

It is important, as I think all those who took part to overlook the impact of the cost of capital on consumer said, that we approach these issues in a way that is long prices in an industry as capital-intensive as energy. The term, bipartisan and often consensual, although that cost of capital is directly related to the predictability does not mean that there cannot be vigorous debate and and stability of policy—another reason why achieving a disagreement. In an industry where the effects of decisions bipartisan consensus as far as possible is important. I made now will be felt not in 10 years’ time, but in 30, 40, am tempted to go down the track—the hon. Member 50 or even 60, we need to work hard to get the right for Rutherglen and Hamilton West already knows what answers. My Committee’s work has been consistently I am going to say before I have said it—of whether an driven by our preference, first, to act constructively and, energy price freeze is a good way to reduce the cost of secondly, to look at the evidence first—it is very much capital. However, I will not—our respective views on an evidence-driven Committee, and I am sure that will that are well known. continue in the next Parliament. I regularly talk to some very big investors, and I am It is important that we maintain cross-party consensus pleased that they acknowledge that the UK regime, about the importance, above all, of tackling climate which has evolved over time, with a lot of thought from change. That is the central issue for policy makers in the all sides, now offers quite attractive opportunities. It is 21st century, and it will transcend all sorts of existing not just that the rule of law is respected here; we now anxieties on the security front. The truth is that the have a regime that looks capable of sustaining a framework prosperity of the human species is directly threatened in which long-term investments will be attractive. That by dangerous and irreversible climate change. Actions will be to the benefit of everyone. that we take will affect generations unborn for centuries I warmly welcome my hon. Friend the Minister’s to come. responses on a wide range of issues, including the As the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton potential for demand-side response measures. I just West (Tom Greatrex) mentioned, there has been a slight reiterate one concern. Bringing in back-up generating erosion of the consensus on the science of climate change, capacity at short notice is vital to trim the peaks and to particularly in the Conservative party. Nevertheless, I enable us to get by with lower overall generation capacity, celebrate the fact that a vast majority in all the political and an increasing number of people, including some parties, with the exception of UKIP, still accepts the individuals, are ready to provide capacity. However, overriding necessity of tackling climate change. Britain that is just part of the story. The other part is that, in has played a leading role on this, partly because of our the long term, there will be an even greater prize if we strong science base and partly because we take a thoughtful can facilitate consumption cuts at short notice by building approach to sustainability issues, and I hope that is into equipment chips that automatically switch off air maintained. conditioning when the energy price rises to a certain Carbon capture and storage was mentioned, although level, and so on. That is another helpful aspect, and we I omitted to mention it. When I was making a few notes are just beginning to scratch the surface of the potential this morning, I was conscious of the fact that I did not of these things. want to take up too much time—as it happened, there My hon. Friend sounded a measured tone about was no shortage of time. Carbon capture and storage is shale gas, and that is welcome. When the Daily Mail the one technology the world most urgently needs, and heard about shale gas, it thought it was the answer to all it is the one thing that could transform the economics of our problems. Others, perhaps on the extreme green fossil fuels, perhaps allowing us to utilise fossil fuel wing, say that we should under no circumstances reserves that, at the moment, will never be utilised. It is contemplate fracking in this country. There is a middle therefore worth giving it the greatest support. way, and I hope that whoever is in government will take I am sometimes frustrated that the private sector is it. There will be a prize for doing these things fairly not more enthusiastic about carbon capture and storage. quickly. There is an opportunity. We are good at designing Given the resources available to companies in the fossil regulatory systems in this country. If we move ahead, fuel industry, I would like to see them championing the we could shape the whole EU regulatory framework for cause of research on carbon capture and storage more shale gas during 2015, and other countries might follow, than they are. That should not be left to taxpayers and which would give us benefits in the supply chain. Governments—I am not saying it is left entirely to My final message is that, above all, the future has to them, but they are shouldering a lot of the burden. We be low carbon, for reasons we all understand, but it in should definitely prioritise attempts to achieve economically no way needs to be low growth. Our economy can viable carbon capture and storage. There is also a be—indeed, it is more likely to be—high growth if it is detailed point of great importance about whether we also low carbon. That is the way forward for the UK, can tweak the way we support other low carbon the EU and the world. technologies in a way that directly incentivises more Question put and agreed to. research into carbon capture and storage. The future of the levy control framework was mentioned 3.16 pm several times, and it is important. It is easy for laymen Sitting adjourned.

15WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 16WS

More widely, I know that the level of stakeholder interaction Written Statements with the Law Commission during the groundless threats work has been excellent, particularly within the IP legal community. I recognise that there is wide support among Thursday 26 February 2015 that community for the proposed reforms. The Government are therefore keen that this work should move forward, and intend to bring primary legislation to BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS enact the necessary reforms in due course. The Government will want to look carefully at whether it might be possible to do this via the special parliamentary procedure which is Law Commission Report on Patents available for Bills that implement uncontroversial Law (Government Response) Commission recommendations. [HCWS302]

The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy (Mr Edward Vaizey): My noble Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, Minister CABINET OFFICE for Intellectual Property (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) will today make the following statement. The Registration of Consultant Lobbyists In 2012, the Department for Business, Innovation and Regulations 2015 Skills together with the Intellectual Property Office (IPO) asked the Law Commission to review the law relating to the making of groundless threats to bring proceedings for infringement of patents, trade marks and design rights. The Minister for the Constitution (Mr Sam Gyimah): The review was sought because of concerns that the Part 1 of the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-party threats provisions are overly complex and do not work as Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act intended. In particular, there were questions over whether 2014 provides for a statutory register of consultant the provisions sit well with the expectation, under the civil lobbyists, which the Government are committed to procedure rules, that parties in disputes should try to negotiate introducing before the general election. The statutory a settlement before turning to litigation. There were also register of consultant lobbyists will increase transparency concerns about inconsistency between the different intellectual property rights. by requiring those who lobby on behalf of a third party to disclose the names of their clients on a publicly The Law Commission’s report was published in April 2014, and the Government have now the opportunity to available register. consider the report fully. Today the Government are laying regulations made The Government are grateful to the Law Commission for under sections 22 and 23 of the Transparency of Lobbying, a report which is exhaustive and careful in its treatment of Non-party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration this complex matter, and which makes very clear and detailed Act 2014 which will provide for certain practical aspects recommendations for reform. I was also grateful for the Law of the register and registration process to take effect. Commission’s willingness to have further discussions with IPO officials on a number of the detailed issues raised by the The regulations make provision about: limitations on report. the duty to supply information to the registrar; charges; The Government accept the Law Commission’s conclusion the supply of VAT-registration information to the registrar that the threats provisions should be retained but reformed. by HMRC; and the detail of the information that As well as accepting the overarching thrust of the lobbyists will be required to submit in information recommendations, the Government welcome many of the returns. detailed suggestions for reform. There are just a few The Cabinet Office is also publishing a response to recommendations where the Government’s acceptance is in some way qualified. We will want to reflect further on these the consultation, which we conducted on a draft of points, and take discussions forward with the Law Commission, these regulations. I am placing copies of this response in stakeholders and others. the Libraries of both Houses and it will be available at: Copies of the Government’s full response to the report’s www.gov.uk recommendations will be placed in the Libraries of both It is also available online at: http://www.parliament.uk/ Houses. writtenstatements. Aside from the recommendations made, the report also [HCWS314] discusses the possibility of removing the threats provisions entirely and introducing a new tort of making unfair allegations, either within UK law or as part of wider EU reforms. No recommendations are made in this respect, and the Law Commission suggests that it makes sense to progress first TREASURY with what the report calls the more “evolutionary” changes to the threats regime. The Government agree that the idea of a wider, new tort may deserve more consideration in the Anti-avoidance longer term, but agree with the conclusion that the more evolutionary reforms should be focussed upon at this stage. The Government are also grateful for the report’s careful The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David treatment of issues concerning the interplay between the Gauke): The Government are committed to tackling tax threats regime and the proposed Unitary Patent and Unified avoidance to ensure the Exchequer is protected and Patent Court. Although no specific recommendations are fairness is maintained for the taxpayer. made, the report (and subsequent dialogue with the Law Commission) has been very helpful to Government in developing HMRC has become aware of a proposed transaction draft UK legislation with respect to threats provisions for that seeks to take advantage of a perceived gap in the Unitary Patents and the Unified Patent Court. sale and leaseback rules for capital allowances. The 17WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 18WS claimed effect of the transaction is to create tens of 1999 and section 497A(4B) of the Education Act 1996 millions of pounds of capital allowances in respect to implement the proposed intervention measures to of assets where no real expenditure has been incurred. ensure Rotherham metropolitan borough council’s The Government do not accept that these arrangements compliance with the best value duty and to secure that would have this effect, but we will put this beyond the authority’s children’s social care functions are performed doubt by taking action today. to the required standard. I am today announcing that legislation will be introduced I am also minded shortly to make an order under the in the Finance Bill 2015 to ensure that where an asset is Local Government Act 2000, as I proposed, to move acquired without incurring expenditure, an entitlement Rotherham council to holding all-out elections in 2016 to capital allowances cannot be created by a sale and and every fourth year thereafter. One of the political leaseback or connected party transaction. The legislation groups on the council has made representations to me will have effect from today and will protect significant that the 2015 local elections should be the first all-out amounts of revenue. elections. I have carefully considered this, but I am clear We have acted quickly to prevent any exploitation of that making such a change only some two months these rules. This Government will not hesitate to eliminate before the elections is neither practicable nor desirable. opportunities for avoidance that create significant risk The 2016 all-out elections, for which there will be adequate to the Exchequer. time for candidate selection and good planning, will Draft legislation and further details of this measure provide a good foundation for the fresh start that are being published on HMRC’s website today. Rotherham needs. [HCWS316] These intervention measures are centred on a team of commissioners who will both exercise functions of the authority and oversee a rigorous programme of COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT improvement to bring about the essential changes in culture and ensure there is in future effective and accountable Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council political and officer leadership. Specific intervention measures include the following: The Secretary of State for Communities and Local The commissioners exercising all the authority’s executive functions—i.e. the functions which are the responsibility of Government (Mr Eric Pickles): I would like to update the authority’s cabinet—and certain other functions, in particular hon. Members on Rotherham council. all licensing functions, including taxi licensing, and responsibility On 4 February, I informed the House that I was for appointing the authority’s three statutory officers, the satisfied, having considered the report of the inspection chief executive, the chief finance officer and the monitoring by Louise Casey CB, that the council is failing to officer. comply with its best value duty, and proposed to use my The authority being required under the direction and oversight statutory powers of intervention to secure the council’s of commissioners to prepare and implement improvement compliance with that duty. and action plans in order to deliver rapid and sustainable improvements in governance, leadership, culture, the exercise As I told the House, of the overview and scrutiny functions and in the performance “The report...confirms a complete failure of political and of services; every six months the authority must report officer leadership in Rotherham...Poor governance is deeply progress to me and my right hon. Friend the Education seated throughout the council. There is a pervading culture Secretary. of bullying, sexism, suppression and misplaced political An improvement panel or panels, as the commissioners correctness that has cemented the Council’s failures. Both agree, being put in place to hold the authority publicly to members and officers lack the confidence to tackle difficult account for the progress it makes on securing future compliance issues for fear of being seen as racist or of upsetting community with the best value duty and securing that its children’s social cohesion. The council is currently incapable of tackling its care functions are performed to the required standard. weakness without substantial intervention.” I gave the council 14 days to make any representations The authority being required to cease to pay special responsibility allowances to members of its executive while they have no it wished on the inspection report and my proposal for functions to exercise. intervention. I have now carefully considered the representations that the council has made and, having The commissioner team will comprise a lead considered afresh Louise Casey’s report, I remain satisfied commissioner; a commissioner with a full time “managing that the council is failing to comply with its best value director”role, primarily to address the issues of ineffective duty.It is encouraging that the council in its representations officer leadership until a new chief executive is appointed; wholly accepts the conclusions in the report and welcomes a children’s social care commissioner having particular the appointment of commissioners. responsibilities to secure improvement in the authority’s children’s social care functions; and two or more supporting I have concluded that it is both necessary and expedient commissioners. for me to exercise my intervention powers and, given the serious failures in the council, that, as I proposed, I have nominated Sir Derek Myers to be the lead the intervention should initially be broad and wide commissioner. Stella Manzie CBE will take the role of ranging with commissioners exercising many of the the managing director commissioner, and Malcolm authority’s functions until these can be confidently rolled Newsam will be nominated as children’s social care back for the authority to exercise in compliance with its commissioner. Mary Ney and Julie Kenny CBE will be best value duty. nominated as supporting commissioners. I therefore inform the House that today, my right The council will be required to comply with any hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and I instructions of the commissioners in relation to the have given the council the necessary directions under exercise of those functions for which the commissioners section 15(5) and 15(6) of the Local Government Act are responsible, and to provide the commissioners at its 19WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 20WS expense with such services, amenities and administrative of information received by the Department for Education support as the commissioners may reasonably require, relating to Jimmy Savile and several children’s homes and with access to the council’s premises, documents, and schools in England, dating back to the 1960s, 1970s and to any employee or member as appears to the and 1980s. This information was passed to the appropriate commissioners to be necessary. organisations for further investigation. The directions will remain in force until 31 March I can today inform the House that investigations have 2019 unless I consider it appropriate to amend or revoke been completed by the relevant local authority, institution them at an earlier date. I expect that there will be a or legacy organisation and their individual reports are phased roll back of powers to the authority as and being published today. when there can be confidence that the authority could None of the investigations have been able to reach exercise a function in compliance with the best value firm conclusions about whether the alleged abuse took duty, and in the case of children’s social care, to the place or not. Although many of them say the informant required standard. To this end the authority, under the was credible, the lack of corroborating evidence has direction of the commissioners, will be required every prevented them from reaching a definitive conclusion. three months to review and report to me any functions The investigating organisations are publishing a report which it is considered would be appropriate to be rolled of their findings today and links to their individual back to the authority. If I agree I will then make the websites where the reports can be found are included at necessary amending direction. the end of this statement. It has also been suggested that the governance of the Lucy Scott-Moncrieff was appointed to provide authority could be improved—made more transparent independent oversight and quality assurance of the and accountable—if it were changed to the committee process and she has now produced a report covering a system. Before taking any steps to implement such a total of 14 investigations. The report “Independent change, I will be inviting the commissioners views as to oversight of investigations into matters relating to Jimmy what they see would be the most effective and efficient Savile at schools and children’s homes”has been published form of governance for the authority. I am also open to today and is available at: http://www.gov.uk representations from the public. Though it is a difficult decision to undertake such a Lucy Scott-Moncrieff concluded in her report that: broad central intervention, I am clear that these exceptional All the investigations reviewed into matters relating to circumstances, in which the people of Rotherham have Jimmy Savile have been conducted in an appropriate and been so profoundly let down by their authority, call for robust fashion and that the resulting reports should be such action. I am confident that the measures which I published. and my right hon. Friend the Education Secretary are All the investigations found that policy and practice has taking today will rejuvenate and improve local governance developed significantly in the schools and children’s homes since the time of alleged incidents. This is not as a result of in Rotherham, restoring the faith local people can have Savile’s activities but because of the greater awareness of in their council. safeguarding risks that has developed over the last few Louise Casey’s report also describes how a small decades. youth project, Risky Business, developed a ground breaking The risk of a paedophile having unrestricted access to approach to reaching out to victims of child sexual children, as Savile apparently had, is now substantially reduced. exploitation and to collecting evidence about perpetrators, I would like to thank Lucy Scott-Moncrieff for her assurance until the misguided and inappropriate decisions of the that the investigations were conducted in an appropriate and council resulted in the closure of the Risky Business robust fashion. service. The report concludes that the critical work Child abuse is an abhorrent crime whenever it occurs and undertaken by Risky Business “is now missing from whoever the perpetrator. All victims have a right to expect Rotherham”. This should not continue, and historical that allegations of abuse, no matter how much time has victims of child sexual exploitation should be given the passed, will be investigated professionally and appropriately. help they need. So, accordingly, subject to being provided I would like to put on record my sincere thanks to all the with an appropriate business case demonstrating value victims, survivors and witnesses for their invaluable assistance for money, I am prepared to make available £250,000 that has required them to relive distressing events in their life. These investigations would not have been possible without over the next two financial years for a Risky Business-style their co-operation. service to be established. I am placing a copy of the documents associated with Links to relevant websites for access to investigation these announcements in the Library of the House and reports: on my Department’s website. Action for Children at: http://www.actionforchildren.org. [HCWS313] uk/savilereport EDUCATION Banardo’s at: http://www.barnardos.org.uk/ jsinvestigationfinalreport.pdf Investigations into Allegations of Abuse in Bournemouth Borough Council at: www.bournemouth. Children’s Homes and Schools gov.uk/yewtree Devon County Council at: http://www.devon.gov.uk/js- The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education colleton-lodge-report.pdf (Mr Edward Timpson): This is a statement regarding http://www.devon.gov.uk/childrenfamilies investigations relating to Jimmy Savile and a number of children’s homes and schools in England. Gloucestershire County Council at: www.gloucestershire. On 27 March 2014 the then Education Secretary, gov.uk/saville-investigation-report my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath Henshaws Society for blind people at: http://henshaws. (Michael Gove), informed the House about the transfer org.uk/resources/for-professionals/operation-yewtree 21WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 22WS

Hounslow Council at: http://www.hounslow.gov.uk/ Declaration on Hong Kong was published today. A report-on-investigation copy of the report is also available on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website at: www.gov.uk/government/ Leeds City Council at: http://www.leeds.gov.uk/ organisations/foreign-commonwealth-office. The report opendata/Pages/Savile-investigation.aspx covers the period from 1 July to 31 December 2104. I London Borough of Tower Hamlets at: http://www. commend the report to the House. childrenandfamiliestrust.co.uk/the-lscb It is also available online at: http://parliament.uk/ Manchester City Council at: www.manchester.gov.uk/ writtenstatements savilereport [HCWS307] Nottinghamshire County Council at: http://www. nottinghamshire.gov.uk/caring/childrenstrust/pathwav- to-provision/mash Nottingham City Council at: http://www.nottinghamcity. HEALTH gov.uk/29395 Sevenoaks School at: http://www.sevenoaksschool.org/ End-of-Life Care press-gallery Southwark Council at: www.southwark.gov.uk/ holliesreport The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman [HCWS305] Lamb): The independently led review of choice in end-of-life care has published its advice to Government today. I commissioned this review in July 2014 to look into how PFI Academies quality and experience for people approaching the end of life can be improved by expanding choice. The review The Minister of State, Department for Education was chaired by Claire Henry MBE, chief executive of (Mr Nick Gibb): Today, I will lay before both Houses a the National Council of Palliative Care. minute setting out the revised details of the contingent This Government are committed to ensuring that liability created by the provision of indemnities to local people nearing the end of their lives get high quality, authorities where schools in private finance initiative compassionate care which is focused on their individual (PFI) contracts become academies. Both Houses were needs and preferences. previously notified of this indemnity by a parliamentary I welcome the review’s advice, which proposes that a minute laid on 13 July 2010. The contingent liability has “national choice offer” for everyone in need of end-of-life increased since 2010 due to the rapid expansion of the care should be in place by 2020 and sets out the actions academies programme and a more streamlined PFI needed to deliver this. As the review rightly notes, many academy conversion process. people in England already receive good end-of-life care, As a result of our plan for education we now have a focused on their choices, and I want to pay tribute to million more pupils in good or outstanding schools everyone involved in this care, both staff and carers. than in 2010. The academies programme has been The review’s advice has outlined a series of actions to crucial to this, helping to transform thousands of historically ensure that everyone receives good care at this important poor schools across the country. point in their lives. This advice covers: No expenditure has ever arisen under this indemnity, Early identification of people who are approaching the end in respect of the 164 PFI academies to date. The likelihood of life. of any of the indemnity being realised is very low and Greater use of: would only be realised in relation to an individual PFI advance care planning to record people’s choices and preferences; contract. The overall PFI liability has not risen. The and perceived increase is because of a redistribution of electronic systems which enable records to be shared among schools from local authorities to the Department as the all those involved in the person’s care and allow people to academies programme grows in popularity. access and update their own records. The continuation of this contingent liability means 24/7 care for people being cared for outside hospital. that my Department will provide indemnities to local A named senior clinician with overall responsibility for the authorities when PFI schools become academies. Local delivery of good care for each person approaching the end of authorities will not, therefore, be left with bills arising life. from the actions of an academy trust over which the Enabling family members and those important to the individual authority has no control. to be involved in discussions about care preferences and This will give more schools the opportunity to join ensuring carers have support. the 164 PFI academies already open and enjoy the Training and work force numbers to ensure that staff are benefits that academy status brings. supported to deliver good care. [HCWS317] The steps that health and social care organisations can take to create the right conditions to improve choice, including guidance for commissioners, working with the voluntary FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE sector—in particular hospices—and robust metrics to measure improvements. Hong Kong (Sino-British Joint Declaration) The review advises how more people can be cared for in their own home, as this is a key choice for many people approaching the end of their lives. It sets out the The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth savings that more out-of-hospital care can achieve in Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond): The latest six-monthly acute care, as well as the additional investment needed report on the implementation of the Sino-British Joint in community health and social care services. 23WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 24WS

The Government will work with organisations in the He will be supported by a junior barrister, Patrick health and care system to consider this advice and Hill, from the same chambers, to assist with the groundwork enable a full response later this year. involved. In the meantime, I can say that we fully support the The investigation team has agreed the terms of reference review’s vision that every person should receive care in with the three surviving victims of the miscarriage of line with their choices and preferences, and we urge justice and I will arrange for a copy to be placed in the local health and care organisations to work together to Library of the House. The investigation will begin on ensure that this is achieved for as many people as 2 March 2015 and will aim to complete its findings by possible. summer 2015. The team will report to me and I intend In particular, we recognise that interoperable electronic to publish the investigation’s report. health records play a central role in ensuring that people’s The purpose of the investigation is to understand preferences and choices are recorded and shared with how the collapse of the 2011 trial came about, covering all involved in their care. Examples from across the all questions of resources, performance and conduct country have shown that where these systems exist they which were not addressed by the previous investigations. can deliver real benefits to people at the end of life and In particular, it will explore: form an important part of the culture change needed to The reasons why leading counsel for the Crown lost confidence deliver choice and person-centred care. in the disclosure process and the prosecution was therefore To help this happen, the Government accept the abandoned. review’s advice that each person approaching the end of Whether 227 boxes of documents were overlooked and the life should have a fully interoperable electronic health contents not considered for the purposes of disclosure in the record, and should be able to access and add to their prosecution. own records. This is in line with the ambition set out for The investigation team is calling for evidence to be all patients in the “NHS Five Year Forward View”. submitted to the investigation for consideration alongside I would like to thank the chair and the review’s the significant amount of material to be made available programme board for their hard work and commitment. by South Wales police. Evidence should be sent to Finally, I would also like to thank all the contributors to [email protected] the review, and in particular the people who responded I am grateful to the chief constable of South Wales to the review’s public engagement exercise. police for the support he has offered to the investigation. A copy of “What’s important to me: A Review of [HCWS312] Choice in End-of-life care” is available in the Library. Copies are also available at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications? Fees under Licensing Act 2003 departments%5b%5d=department-of-health Attachments can be viewed online at: http://www. parliament.uk/writtenstatements The Minister for Crime Prevention (Lynne Featherstone): [HCWS301] This Government strongly support the vital contribution that responsible businesses, including local pubs, hotels, restaurants and community premises make to our economy HOME DEPARTMENT and to their communities. We are committed to freeing up local communities to R v. “Mouncher and Others’ Trial” (Investigation) tackle alcohol-fuelled harms and took swift action in 2011 to overhaul the Licensing Act 2003 to make it The Secretary of State for the Home Department easier for licensing authorities and the police to deal (Mrs Theresa May): I have decided to call for an with problem premises. independent, QC-led investigation into the collapse of Through public consultation, the Government have the R v. “Mouncher and others” 2011 trial. listened to the concerns of businesses and community Stephen Miller, John and Ronald Actie, Yusef Abdullahi groups and decided not to introduce locally set licensing and Anthony Paris were wrongfully prosecuted and fees at this time. stood trial in 1990 for the murder of Lynette White in The consultation focused on the proposed regime for 1988. Stephen Miller, Yusef Abdullahi and Anthony locally set fees under the 2003 Act. The proposals Paris were convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment, included the proposed caps on each fee and whether or while John and Ronald Actie were acquitted. Ronald not fee levels should vary for different kinds of premises Actie and Yusef Abdullahi are deceased. The three or should be the same for all premises. There were surviving victims of the miscarriage of justice, Stephen 681 responses to the consultation. Around a quarter of Miller, John Actie and Anthony Paris, are the claimants the responses were from local government and almost in this case. all of the remainder were from fee payers, such as The 2011 trial (R v. “Mouncher and others”) of individuals and small businesses in the licensed trade police officers for offences connected with the 1990 and representatives of community and village halls. Fee trial, including conspiracy to pervert the course of payers were strongly opposed to locally set fees and justice and perjury, collapsed. concerned that fees would rise significantly without I have asked Richard Horwell QC to carry out this justification. Many were particularly critical of the evidence investigation and he has agreed. Mr Horwell is an base. excellent QC with experience of both prosecution and Alongside the public consultation, the Government defence work. He is currently counsel for the Metropolitan sought evidence from local government about licensing Police Service in the Litvinenko inquiry. costs. The importance of this cost survey was emphasised 25WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 26WS by the Government in the ministerial foreword and at authorisation is made under the nationality exception consultation events, which were well attended by for immigration functions contained in the Equality representatives of licensing authorities. However, only Act 2010. The nationalities covered by the authorisation 20 of the 350 licensing authorities responded to the will be reviewed each quarter by the Home Office and request for information about their costs. This followed submitted for ministerial approval. a similar, pre-consultation exercise to which only I have made an equivalent authorisation for Northern 17 authorities provided full responses. The evidence Ireland under section 20C of the Race Relations (Northern presents a limited and contradictory picture of the Ireland) Order 1997. This authorisation also came into relationship between licensing authority costs and income. force today. The insufficient evidence means that the Government I am placing a copy of the authorisations in the are not in a position to determine the details of the Library of the House. proposed new fees regime or predict its consequences [HCWS309] with confidence. Therefore, having carefully considered the concerns Home Office 2014-15 Funding of the licensed trade and the evidence provided by local government, the Government have decided not to proceed with the implementation of locally set fees. Instead, we The Secretary of State for the Home Department will invite the Local Government Association to provide (Mrs Theresa May): The Home Office is seeking an better evidence of licensing authorities’ costs. advance of £275 million in 2014-15 from the Contingencies As well as locally set fees, the consultation sought Fund under category D of the supply estimates guidance views on whether there should be a single payment date manual to meet its cash funding obligations. The cash for annual fees, which are currently payable on the advance from the Contingencies Fund is the only anniversary of the day the licence was granted. The mechanism through which the Home Office can meet majority of both fee payers and local government opposed its financial obligations in March ahead of the conclusion this change. The Government have listened to their of the supplementary process. views and decided to consider further an alternative The Home Office has come under significant and approach, proposed during the consultation events, under sustained cash funding pressure towards the end of the which licence holders can nominate their own payment 2014-15 financial year. A number of core and policing date, if they wish, by notifying the relevant licensing pressures have contributed to this. The Department authority, rather than introducing a universal date. This pays out a large proportion of its monthly cash change will particularly benefit businesses that hold requirement—predominantly police related—within the multiple licences, such as a chain of pubs, without first week of the month. This leads to a funding shortfall imposing unnecessary change on small businesses and at the start of March, until the additional funds secured community premises. through the supplementary become available towards Copies of the Government’s response to the consultation, the end of the month. Parliamentary approval for including the details of 2003 Act, and a breakdown of additional resources of £66,400,000 and additional cash consultation responses, will be placed in the Library of of £208,600,000 is being sought within a supplementary the House and published on the gov.uk website: https:// estimate for the Home Office. Pending that approval, www.gov.uk/government/consultations/locally-set- urgent expenditure estimated at £275 million will be met licensing-fees by repayable cash advances from the Contingencies Fund. [HCWS308] [HCWS315]

Equality Act 2010 Immigration Act Commencement and Changes in Immigration Rules

The Minister for Security and Immigration (James The Minister for Security and Immigration (James Brokenshire): I have made an authorisation under paragraph Brokenshire): Today is another significant milestone in 17(4)(a) of schedule 3 to the Equality Act 2010, the bringing the reforms in the Immigration Act 2014 into Equality (Consideration of Immigration Applications force. We are finishing the task of sweeping away the and Removal Directions) Authorisation 2015. This enables remains of the excessive number of rights of appeal and the Home Office to give greater scrutiny or priority to implementing the new scheme to stop sham marriages particular nationalities in carrying out entry clearance, being used to circumvent immigration controls. border control, immigration casework in the country On 24 November I announced our plans to implement and removals functions. from 2 March 2015 the main provisions in the Act that The authorisation allows the Home Office to target tackle sham marriage and civil partnership. Today’s its resources effectively in managing UK immigration commencement order, together with the secondary controls. It uses statistical and intelligence-based evidence legislation we have already laid before Parliament, will to identify the nationalities that pose the greatest risk to bring the new scheme into force from that date. The Act immigration controls and it permits Home Office staff will give us a much stronger platform for effective, to give greater scrutiny to those nationalities when systematic action to disrupt and deter sham marriages making decisions. and civil partnerships and prevent them gaining an This authorisation came into force today. It replaces immigration advantage. the Equality (Transit Visa, Entry Clearance, Leave to Last October we started the phased implementation Enter, Examination of Passengers and Removal Directions) of the new immigration appeals system. The old system Authorisation 2011, which has been revoked. The was a costly and time-consuming way to correct simple 27WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 28WS case work errors which could be resolved by a request to In light of the ongoing violent conflict in Syria it has the Home Office to review the decision. Instead of been decided that the Home Office should continue to appeals, the new system provides a system of administrative operate some discretion to enable Syrians legally in the review through which case work errors will be corrected UK to extend their stay here. within 28 days. By 6 April 2015 the new appeals system Syrians in the UK with valid leave (or leave which has will be fully in place. expired within the last 28 days) in specified visa categories Also on 6 April 2015 new provisions will come into will continue to be able to apply to extend their stay in force that enable children of unmarried British fathers that visa category, or switch into a different specified born before 2006 to register as British citizens, correcting category from within the UK (with some restrictions) a historical anomaly in our nationality law. rather than being required to return home first. Those The Immigration Act continues to prove itself as applying will still need to meet the requirements of the a radical new tool to tackle immigration abuse. Over relevant visa category, pay the appropriate fee, and 300 foreign criminals have now been deported who adhere to the normal conditions of that category—no before this legislation existed would have had rights of access to public funds, for example. If a required document appeal delaying their removal. Over 5,000 driving licences is not accessible due to the civil unrest in Syria the have been revoked from migrants with no right to be Home Office may apply its discretion and the requirement in the United Kingdom. Banks are now checking the to provide that document may be waived where appropriate. immigration status of prospective customers and landlord These concessions will remain in force until 28 February checks are being phased in, starting in the west midlands, 2016. The Government continue to monitor the situation since last December. in Syria closely in order to ensure our response is appropriate and that any emerging risks are addressed. I am also making other changes to the immigration I am placing a copy of the authorisation for this rules. concession in the Library of the House. I am laying a new set of immigration rules for visitors. [HCWS310] The new visitor rules will reduce the number of visitor routes from 15 to four, removing duplication and complexity in the system, and will make the immigration rules for JUSTICE visitors clearer and more accessible for applicants and decision-makers. Prison Service Pay Review Body (Appointment) One of the main delays in removing and deporting persons with no right to be in the United Kingdom is The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice the time taken to obtain a travel document from the (Andrew Selous): I am pleased to announce that the relevant consular authorities. To address that I am Prime Minister has appointed Nicholas Caton as a making changes to require an original, valid passport, member of the Prison Service Pay Review Body for travel document or national identity card as a requirement three years, commencing 26 November 2014. The in most cases for a valid application for leave to remain appointment has been conducted in accordance with or indefinite leave to remain from a person in the UK the Commissioner for Public Appointments’ code of without refugee status or humanitarian protection. practice on appointments to public bodies. To ensure our processes are robust I am imposing a [HCWS300] requirement on migrants, if requested to do so, to attend an interview or provide documentation, to show Part 2 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of they still meet the requirements of the rules. I am also Offenders Act 2012 taking a power to enable us to require an applicant for entry clearance to provide a criminal record certificate The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice from the country in which they have been living for the (Mr Shailesh Vara): My noble friend the Minister of past 10 years. We plan to roll out this requirement on a State for Civil Justice and Legal Policy (Lord Faulks phased basis. QC) has made the following written ministerial statement: I am also making a number of changes to the points- “The Government have made a priority of addressing the based system, including implementing changes to the high costs of civil litigation in England and Wales. To that shortage occupation list recommended by the Migration end, Part 2 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Advisory Committee and updating salary thresholds Offenders (LASPO) Act 2012 reforms the operation of no for tier 2 workers. win no fee conditional fee agreements. Those reforms came into effect generally in April 2013, but were delayed until The rules include a number of other policy changes April 2015 in respect of insolvency proceedings (Official which are described in more detail in the explanatory Report, 24 May 2012: column 94 WS). This delay was to give memorandum published with the statement of changes. insolvency practitioners and other interested parties time to prepare for and adapt to the changes. However, the Government [HCWS311] now agrees that more time is needed. The Government will therefore delay commencing sections 44 and 46 of the LASPO Act 2012 for insolvency proceedings Syrian Nationals (Immigration Concession) for the time being. Accordingly, no win no fee agreements in insolvency proceedings will continue for the time being to operate on a pre-LASPO Act basis with any conditional fee agreement success fees and after the event insurance premiums The Minister for Security and Immigration (James remaining recoverable from the losing party. Brokenshire): I am today announcing a further renewal We will consider the appropriate way forward for insolvency of concessions to the immigration rules for Syrian proceedings and will set out further details later in the year.” nationals lawfully in the UK. [HCWS303] 29WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 30WS

NORTHERN IRELAND Dissident republicans continue to engage in brutal punishment shootings as a means to try to exert fear and control within local communities. Northern Ireland Security Situation Hoax devices have been deployed without any regard for the impact they have on the welfare of the community, including elderly residents, children and workers. These The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa shameful incidents can cause significant disruption to Villiers): This is the seventh statement on the security local people and to businesses. situation in Northern Ireland and the final regular statement of this Parliament. It covers the threat from Dissident republican prisoners in Maghaberry continue domestic terrorism in Northern Ireland, rather than to threaten, and to try to intimidate, staff and contractors from international terrorism, which members will be as they seek to carry out their work. This Government aware is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the fully support the Department of Justice and the Northern Home Secretary, who updates the House separately. Ireland Prison Service as they respond to this wholly unacceptable activity and I pay tribute to all prison A number of small, disparate but dangerous groupings officers for the difficult job that they carry out. of dissident republican terrorists continue with their attempts to undermine Northern Ireland’s democratic Although risks endure, it is important to highlight institutions through the use of violence. However, because the excellent progress that has been made in disrupting of the tireless efforts of the Police Service of Northern terrorist activity and bringing dissident republicans to Ireland (PSNI), working in conjunction with MI5, An justice. In October 2014 a weapons hide was uncovered Garda Siochana (AGS) and Army ammunition technical on a farm in County Fermanagh. It was found to officers, the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland’s contain five complete explosive devices, parts for further population are able to go about their daily lives untroubled devices, a firearm and mortar components. In November, by terrorism. I would like to take this opportunity to a potential shooting attack was averted when the PSNI thank the PSNI and all its security partners for their arrested a man in possession of a sub-machine gun in outstanding work. Belfast. Also in November, a total of fifteen men were Continued vigilance is, however, essential. The threat arrested following a long-running investigation into level in Northern Ireland and Great Britain from Northern dissident republican activity in Newry, County Down. Ireland related terrorism remains unchanged since my Of those arrested, ten were charged under the Terrorism last statement to Parliament in October 2014. The Act 2000 and remanded in custody. threat to Northern Ireland is SEVERE (an attack is In the Republic of Ireland, An Garda Siochana (AGS) highly likely) while the threat to Great Britain is has also had success in combating the threat. A weapons MODERATE (an attack is possible but not likely). All cache discovered in Dublin was found to contain an threat levels are kept under constant review. assault rifle, automatic pistols, ammunition and a significant There were twenty two national security attacks in quantity of bomb-making equipment that could have 2014 and there has been one so far in 2015. PSNI and been intended for use in attacks in Northern Ireland. prison officers as well as members of the armed forces Two men were arrested in December in possession of continue to be the principal targets for dissident republican improvised incendiary devices probably destined for use terrorists and the threat to life persists. A number of in Northern Ireland. these violent groupings continue to attack, or aspire to The close working relationship between PSNI and carry out attacks, including the so-called “new” IRA, AGS, and their joint efforts both north and south of the Oglaigh na hEireann (ONH) and factions of the continuity border, has led to considerable success in combating the IRA (CIRA). threat from dissident republican terrorists over the last Since October 2014 when I last reported on the six months. I am confident that both police services will security situation in Northern Ireland, PSNI officers do all that they can to build on this through 2015 as have been subject to violent attack on five separate they make progress with a number of ongoing investigations. occasions. In two particularly serious incidents violent This work is painstaking and lengthy but there is a dissidents set up booby trapped explosive devices in steadfast commitment to bringing the terrorists to justice Strabane and Londonderry and then attempted to lure on both sides of the border. in PSNI officers by making bogus crime reports. Although the devices were intended to target responding PSNI In my last statement I commented on in-fighting officers, they could easily have been triggered by passers-by within loyalist paramilitary organisations. This has persisted or even by children playing. Thankfully, both devices in recent months and understandably remains a cause were made safe by Army ammunition technical officers for concern for the wider community. There is no place before anyone was injured. in Northern Ireland for individuals or organisations that seek to exert fear, control or intimidation. The Two further attempts to murder PSNI officers PSNI have assured me that they are doing all that they undertaking their duties were made in Londonderry can to apprehend those responsible for violent and and Belfast in November. In Londonderry, terrorists criminal acts. detonated an improvised explosive device in a residential area of the city as a police patrol vehicle passed by, As in previous reporting periods, there are individuals while in north Belfast an explosive device was fired at a associated with loyalist paramilitary groups that are stationary PSNI vehicle. Fortunately, the occupants of involved in serious criminality. However, overall, we both vehicles escaped uninjured but both attacks could continue to assess that the collective leaderships of the easily have resulted in fatalities or serious casualties. In principal loyalist paramilitary groups, the Ulster Defence a fifth incident an explosive device was sent to the Chief Association (UDA) and the Ulster Volunteer Force Constable at police headquarters in Belfast. (UVF), remain committed to their ceasefires. 31WS Written Statements26 FEBRUARY 2015 Written Statements 32WS

The Government’s Strategic Approach notable successes in recent months. This is the result of The Government are clear that terrorism will not the considerable effort, expertise, co-operation and resolve. succeed in Northern Ireland; democracy and consent But continued vigilance is needed. It is clear that these will always prevail. Tackling terrorism remains a tier violent groupings retain lethal intent and will seek one priority—the highest priority for Government. We whatever opportunity they can to target the police will do all that we can to support the PSNI to counter officers and others who help to keep families, businesses the threat as part of broader efforts by this Government and communities across Northern Ireland safe. The to tackle terrorism, wherever it originates or whatever support of the public and their assistance and patience form it takes. in response to security alerts is both invaluable and admirable. This Government have already provided additional security funding to PSNI over a five-year period amounting With every attack that is mounted and the many to £231 million. This is despite the overall spending more that are foiled, the PSNI and its security partners reductions needed to deal with the deficit and the become more knowledgeable, resilient and able to tackle competing resource needs resulting from international the threat and bring perpetrators to justice. Our terrorism. In addition, the inclusion in the financial commitment to Northern Ireland and to securing a package of Stormont House agreement of an undertaking peaceful, stable and prosperous future will not waver. by the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that police We remain focused on supporting the work that continues funding is protected from significant reductions will on a daily basis to combat terrorism and ensure that help to ensure that the PSNI remains able to tackle the people can continue to go about their daily lives safe threat effectively. from attack. Our strategic approach has also involved working [HCWS304] closely with our colleagues in the devolved authorities and our partners in the Republic of Ireland on a range of issues. This co operation greatly strengthens efforts to combat terrorism in Northern Ireland. PRIME MINISTER We continue to build a united, complementary approach to security and politics that leaves no space for violent dissident republicans. We recognise the continuing link between political and security stability. Political progress Intelligence and Security Committee Report on the has been made this year, for example with the Stormont Murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby (Government Response) House agreement, but challenges undoubtedly lie ahead. Other strategic and political challenges, distinct from the threat from dissident republican groupings, require The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): The report ongoing and concerted action to ensure Northern Ireland of the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament continues to thrive. on the intelligence relating to the murder of Fusilier For instance public disorder is disruptive and distressing Lee Rigby was published on 25 November 2014. The for the communities affected, damages Northern Ireland’s Government’s thoughts remain with the family and reputation abroad, and can expose police officers to friends of Fusilier Lee Rigby. The Government wish risk of attack from dissident republicans. Northern Ireland to reiterate their thanks to the Committee for their enjoyed the most peaceful parading season for a number comprehensive report. The Government have considered of years in 2014. Those involved in parading or protests the Committee’s detailed conclusions and recommendations. need to do all they can to ensure this continues. I have today laid the Government’s response to this Conclusion report before the House and copies are available in the Suppressing the threat from violent dissident republicans Vote Office. is a difficult and, in many cases, dangerous task. Despite [HCWS306] a challenging working environment, there have been

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 26 February 2015

Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 443 CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued Children and the Arts ...... 448 Tourism...... 450 Creative Industries ...... 452 Film Festivals...... 444 WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 458 Grass-roots Sport...... 443 Childcare Business Grants Scheme ...... 463 Mobile Phone Coverage...... 453 Disabled People (Access to Work)...... 463 Sailing (Disabled People) ...... 454 Discrimination Claims ...... 464 Sports Pitches (Redevelopment)...... 451 Domestic Violence ...... 462 Superfast Broadband ...... 445 Equal Pay...... 461 Topical Questions ...... 455 Homophobic Bullying...... 458 Tourism...... 447 Unemployment ...... 459 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Thursday 26 February 2015

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 15WS HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Law Commission Report on Patents Fees under Licensing Act 2003...... 24WS (Government Response)...... 15WS Home Office 2014-15 Funding...... 26WS Immigration Act Commencement and Changes in CABINET OFFICE...... 16WS Immigration Rules ...... 26WS The Registration of Consultant Lobbyists R v. “Mouncher and Others’ Trial” Regulations 2015...... 16WS (Investigation)...... 23WS Syrian Nationals (Immigration Concession) ...... 27WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 17WS Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council...... 17WS JUSTICE...... 28WS Part 2 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and EDUCATION...... 19WS Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 ...... 28WS Investigations into Allegations of Abuse in Prison Service Pay Review Body (Appointment).... 28WS Children’s Homes and Schools ...... 19WS PFI Academies...... 21WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 29WS Northern Ireland Security Situation...... 29WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 21WS Hong Kong (Sino-British Joint Declaration)...... 21WS PRIME MINISTER ...... 32WS Intelligence and Security Committee Report on HEALTH...... 22WS the Murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby (Government End-of-Life Care...... 22WS Response) ...... 32WS

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CONTENTS

Thursday 26 February 2015

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 443] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Minister for Women and Equality

Business of the House [Col. 467] Statement—(Mr Hague)

Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations) [Col. 483] Statement—(Mr Jeremy Hunt)

Select Committee Statement [Col. 497] Future of the BBC—(Mr Whittingdale)

Backbench Business Equitable Life [Col. 507] Motion—(Bob Blackman)—agreed to Epilepsy [Col. 543] Motion—(Laura Sandys)—lapsed

Child Sexual Exploitation (Rotherham) [Col. 573] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Low Carbon Energy Generation [Col. 175WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 15WS]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]