Vol. 189 Thursday, No. 3 10 April 2008

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

SEANAD E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Thursday, 10 April 2008.

Business of Seanad ………………………………139 Order of Business …………………………………139 Consumer Protection (Amendment) Bill 2008: First Stage …………………156 Kidnapping and Detention of Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion …………………156 Adjournment Matter: Telecommunications Services …………………………166 SEANAD E´ IREANN

————

De´ardaoin, 10 Aibrea´n 2008. Thursday, 10 April 2008.

————

Chuaigh an i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m.

————

Paidir. Prayer.

————

Business of Seanad. An Cathaoirleach: I have notice from Senator that, on the Adjournment of the House today, she proposes to raise the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to provide a report on the provision of broadband to the Glencullen area in , particularly in light of the money recently expended on the installation of fibre optic cabling which would facili- tate such provision.

I regard the matter raised as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment and it will be taken at the conclusion of business.

Order of Business. Senator : The Order of Business is No. 16, motion No. 32 re the kidnapping and detention of Ms Ingrid Betancourt. It is proposed to take this item at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than one hour from the conclusion of the Order of Business. Senators may speak for seven minutes and may share time, with agreement of the House.

Senator : Will the Leader ask the Minister for Finance to address this House twice a year on the state of the economy? Since March 2007, an extra 2,000 people in County Wexford are on the dole, which is a large figure. This is the human side of what is going wrong in the economy and it is being replicated throughout the country. Will the Leader invite the Minister for Health and Children before the House to discuss the issue raised by Senator regarding the prevention of cervical cancer? The national cervical cancer screening programme plans to use laboratories abroad rather than invest in laboratories in this country, even though those laboratories abroad could misdiagnose up to 10% of patients. In other words, they could tell 10% more of our patients than our own laboratories that they have cancer when they do not have it and that they do not have cancer when they do. This is a major concern. The Rebecca O’Malley case and what happened in Limerick showed us that we cannot allow this type of situation to develop. With regard to the Lisbon treaty, when the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Roche, returns to the House I would like him to discuss a particular issue I feel is important. We know the EU treaties have been good from the point of view of business. 139 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

[Senator Liam Twomey.] However, when it comes to civil rights, concerns are raised that the European treaties may not serve people as well. In the Watts judgment, the European Court of Justice stated that an EU patient is entitled to treatment abroad if he or she must wait too long for treatment in his or her home country. My reading of the Lisbon treaty is that this right will now be denied to Irish citizens. It is an extremely important issue if we are introducing a treaty which would deny people their civil rights to some degree. It must be clarified by the Minister of State. If I am misreading it I apologise, but I have a feeling this is exactly what is happening. The following is an issue which we must discuss in the House. The Commission on Assisted Human Reproduction first sat seven years ago and none of its major recommendations has been implemented. I received a letter sent to a number of GPs throughout the country. It draws attention to a new one-stop service which is described as a quick and efficient one-day service. This is a one-stop service for abortion. The leaflet includes details on the cost of an abortion in the UK. This is perfectly legal. However, we have no legislation to protect any of my patients who want to go for IVF treatment. If any of my patients suffer from a rare genetic disorder and would like to get pre-implantation genetic testing so they can have a normal baby — I am not talking about choosing blue eyes or blonde hair — this is not available. However, I can legally hand out this leaflet offering a one-stop service for abortion in the UK. That is an issue we need to discuss seriously as well as what is going on with the Commission on Assisted Human Reproduction.

Senator Joe O’Toole: I thank the Leader for facilitating a brief debate on Ingrid Betancourt. It is much appreciated and is the way we need to conduct our business more often. Over the past two days comments have been made about China, the Olympic Games, Tibet and so on. People have strong views and we need to have a debate. I could make a very strong case about a country in which people cannot practice their religion or politics, cannot be a member of a religious group and so on. I could say that sport and politics are tied together and that we should not have anything to do with it. At the same time I understand the point of view of people such as Senator Quinn and others who have said we should negotiate. We should use the threat of not participating as a lever to negotiate. However, we can do that best in a debate in which people can put their views on the record. I do not claim to have all the knowledge and wisdom on this issue but I have strong views on it. However, that does not mean other people should not have strong views as well. We need to put our cards on the table on this issue and make it clear that none of us called for a boycott of the Olympic Games. We were discussing the opening ceremony. I would like the Leader to consider such a debate. On a number of occasions le dha´ bhliain anuas, we have raised the issue of na deacrachtaı´ a bhaineann le ainm An Daingean, Daingean Uı´ Chu´ is no´ Dingle. Bhı´omar den tuaraim go raibh an Aire Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais A´ itiu´ il, an Teachta Gormley, chun rud e´igin a dhe´anamh mar gheall ar an a´bhar. We need an update on that. I know the Minister is working on it and has been very open to discussion on it. However, we need to know where it is going and a timeframe. People are getting very anxious about the issue.

Senator : I attended the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs yesterday at which I co-sponsored with Senator Norris a motion on Tibet calling for dialogue and on which there was unanimous agreement. However, when it came to the issue of a boycott of the Olympic opening ceremony, there was no firm agreement. Some members felt politicians should boycott the ceremony while others called for athletes to be encouraged to boycott it. 140 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

I heard the British Prime Minister, Mr. Gordon Brown, will not attend the opening ceremony and that the French President, Mr. Nicolas Sarkozy, has intimated that he too might not attend. I heard Pat Hickey of the Olympic Council of Ireland on radio this morning. He is a man for whom I have a great amount of respect and he is vehemently opposed to a boycott by athletes. People often say this House is not relevant but we need to have a debate on this issue, as the previous speaker said. This issue is very relevant to the people of Ireland and of the world. Will the Leader arrange a debate next week, if possible, on a boycott of the opening ceremony? This week’s The Economist contains a report by the International Monetary Fund on house prices. It states that of all the countries at which it looked, Ireland’s houses are the most overvalued by 30%. Many commentators have forecasted that this may lead to a market correc- tion. The number of people getting into difficulty repaying their mortgages is on the increase. One in six people with the mortgage company Start are at least two months in arrears. I was in London in the 1990s at the time of the property crash there. I saw cases of people having to hand back the keys of their houses because they could not afford the debt in which they found themselves. Will the Leader impress on the Minister that it is vital there is adequate information on debt and restructuring so that if people get into difficulty with their mortgage repayments, they have adequate information? Today is a wonderful day for this island. It marks the tenth anniversary of peace which was achieved only through the hard work and sacrifice of many people. I read the ’s article in this morning’s newspaper in which he outlined some of the many benefits that have arisen from that peace. It certainly has improved the quality of life of people throughout this island. We now have real power sharing in operation, cross-Border institutions in place and a police force which has the support of everyone in the North. There have been real economic benefits for the people of the North. For instance, in Newry at the height of the Troubles, one in three people did not have a job whereas today 49 out of 50 people are in work. Peace has brought real benefits. I pay tribute to people such as the Taoiseach for their work in achieving that. At the time, Tony Blair said he felt the hand of history on his shoulder. He was wrong about many things but he was right about that.

Senator Larry Butler: On the tenth anniversary of peace in the North, I congratulate the Taoiseach, Deputy , on his wonderful work and I also congratulate the previous leaders. We are now reaping the benefits of a united Ireland at peace with itself. We, in this part of the country, played an important part in that. The Taoiseach negotiated that on our behalf and we will be eternally grateful to him in that regard.

Senator David Norris: I should think so. A united Ireland is news to me this morning. Well done. It is Nobel prize stuff.

Senator Larry Butler: I do not speak that often and I do not interrupt Senator Norris when he is speaking. I expect the same respect from him.

Senator David Norris: Full respect.

Senator Larry Butler: Thank you. I congratulate the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Cowen, who has done an outstanding job in the Department of Finance and in the various other Ministries in which he distinguished himself. I thank him for running the country and its finances and for putting us in a strong position to meet any downturn in the economy. I look forward to a debate on the economy as it would be timely. Certain world events affect our economy and it is important we take corrective measures to deal with any issues we may face. 141 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

[Senator Larry Butler.] We are, however, quite limited in terms of what we can do in regard to interest rates and economic decisions. Senator said yesterday that 40% of people hold most of the wealth in this country and he suggested that they be taxed more heavily. Is that a policy of the ? We have proved that the low taxation system we have encourages people to come here and encour- ages work. We had a high taxation system which did not work and which we got rid of. The Labour Party would be well-advised to revise its policy on high taxation.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: I can arrange for our policies to be sent to the Senator.

Senator Larry Butler: We will cover that in the debate. As the Leader mentioned yesterday, while 5.5% of the population is unemployed, it is not so long since 10% or 11% were unemployed.

Senator Liam Twomey: How long does Senator Butler believe it will take to get back to that?

Senator Larry Butler: We must take steps to correct the increase in unemployment. Job creation is an important part of this Government’s programme. The partnership process has done an outstanding job. The new leader of Fianna Fa´il mentioned patriotism in his speech yesterday. We should build on that also. I thank the Cathaoirleach for giving me the oppor- tunity to speak on the Order of Business. I do not speak that often in this House and I do not expect to be interrupted by people from the opposite side when I do.

Senator : Senator Joe O’Reilly and others called yesterday for a debate on the World Trade Organisation and asked that the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food be invited to this House to explain what precisely is going on, what control the Council has over Commissioner Mandelson and implementation of the mandate given to him in the WTO negotiations. I join in the call for a debate on the economy, which must be an honest debate. It is evident from what Senator Butler had to say that Fianna Fa´il and the Government is in denial about the state of the economy just as it is in denial about corruption in Irish politics and corrupt Fianna Fa´il Taoisigh. In the 1980s, former Taoiseach, Dr. Garret FitzGerald, reduced inflation.

Senator Larry Butler: He could not handle his own accounts.

Senator David Norris: Is Senator Butler interrupting Senator Regan?

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Regan, without interruption, please.

Senator David Norris: Senator Regan has hardly had an opportunity to speak.

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Norris, please allow Senator Regan to continue without interruption.

Senator : On a point of order, a Chathaoirligh——

An Cathaoirleach: I call Senator Leyden on a point of order.

Senator Terry Leyden: Senator Regan has made an allegation that the Taoiseach is corrupt.

Senator Eugene Regan: Intentionally. 142 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

Senator Terry Leyden: That is not a fact. The Taoiseach is not corrupt.

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Regan should withdraw that remark.

Senator Terry Leyden: It is right and proper that such an allegation be withdrawn because it is not correct.

Senator : He did not say that.

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: He did.

Senator Eugene Regan: I used the word “corrupt” intentionally and I do not intend to with- draw the remark. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, denied former Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, was a corrupt politician.

Senator : Senator Regan is lucky his parliamentary privilege is being protected.

An Cathaoirleach: We do not discuss former Members or Taoisigh in this House. It is not right or proper for Senator Regan to do so.

Senator Eugene Regan: That is fine. I use that term because using political office to secure moneys for personal use is, in any western democracy, corruption. I challenge anyone to deny that. The Government is in denial about the economy. The remarks made this morning prove this. Former Taoiseach, Dr. Garret FitzGerald reduced inflation during the years 1981 to 1987 from 20.4% to 3.1%.

A Senator: He doubled the national debt.

Senator Eugene Regan: He had to make painful political decisions.

Senator : He did not get back into Government.

Senator Eugene Regan: Uncontrolled Government expenditure of the Haughey years was brought under control.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Hear, hear.

Senator Eugene Regan: This was followed by the Tallaght strategy introduced by former Deputy . We then had, from 1994 to 1997, a Government led by former Deputy John Bruton with Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn as Minister for Finance. These are facts Fianna Fa´il and the Government do not want to face up to. We had growth rates of 8%, on average——

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator can discuss that issue during the debate, if the Leader agrees to it.

Senator Ann Ormonde: Dr. Garret FitzGerald did not get re-elected.

Senator Eugene Regan: I am calling for an honest debate. We have heard remarks about the economy——

An Cathaoirleach: If the Leader agrees to a debate, the Senator can raise all those important points. 143 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

Senator Eugene Regan: I take the Cathaoirleach’s point. I am entitled to establish the basis upon which the debate is needed. Currently, we have a growth rate of 1.8%, the lowest since the 1980s, inflation is at 4.8%, unemployment levels are at their highest in a decade and, we have a current account deficit of \10 billion, the highest in the history of the State. We can blame international factors for much of our——

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Regan can discuss those issues during the debate. He has made his point.

Senator Eugene Regan: Management of the economy is what we need to discuss.

An Cathaoirleach: That is what we are seeking.

Senator Eugene Regan: We cannot blame the international situation for management of our public finances.

Senator Larry Butler: Good management at that.

Senator Eugene Regan: Our public finances are out of control. We have a budgeted deficit of \5 billion and we are exceeding that already.

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Regan has made his point, I am moving on.

Senator : Is the debate agreed?

Senator Eugene Regan: I wish the Taoiseach designate, Deputy Brian Cowen, well in tackling this economic mess as the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, leaves office. It is a mess that contrasts so sharply with the state of the economy when former Taoisigh Dr. Garret FitzGerald and John Bruton left office.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Hear, hear.

(Interruptions).

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: Let me begin where Senator Regan finished.

An Cathaoirleach: Senator O´ Domhnaill should speak to the Order of Business. I will not allow a debate across the floor.

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: The man referred to by Senator Regan is our Taoiseach and leader of the Fianna Fa´il Party. He is the man most responsible for bringing about the Good Friday Agreement. Ten years ago history was made on this island. Now, people from all strands of society can unite in the North of Ireland. Today is a momentous day. People such as John Hume, Senator George Mitchell, General John de Chastelain, the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, and young people from Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and the United States of America join together in Belfast today to celebrate the great work done during the past ten years. This and, not the nonsense we heard earlier, is what we should be speaking about today.

An Cathaoirleach: Senator O´ Domhnaill should speak to the Order of Business. Is he calling for a debate on Northern Ireland?

Senator Larry Butler: What is the nonsense?

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: This is a matter for the Order of Business. This House should recognise this major achievement that rightly should be celebrated today and is being cel- 144 Order of 10 April 2008. Business ebrated north of the Border. The Taoiseach stated earlier today: “I hope and pray that every- one on this island will forever live in the light that was illuminated on this day ten years ago.” Those words are very true and are reflective of the work carried out by the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, during his tenure of office.

Senator Donie Cassidy: Hear, hear.

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: I want now to speak about the Olympic Games and the ongoing debate in respect of the protests that have occurred over recent days and weeks. This matter has been referred to by a number of Senators in recent days and rightly so. I did not have an opportunity to speak on the matter yesterday. I agree with the sentiments expressed by all Senators in recent days. It is regrettable the Olympic rings are being used in this manner. Irish athletes have trained hard and sweated tears and blood over recent years to achieve qualification for the Olympic Games in Beijing. They are entitled to represent their country at the games. No one should ask them not to travel to Beijing and compete for their country.

Senator Joe O’Toole: No one has asked them not to travel.

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: Protestors are wrong to suggest athletes should not travel and represent their nations.

Senator Joe O’Toole: No one has suggested that.

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: The protestors have called on them not to travel.

Senator Joe O’Toole: Not in Ireland.

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: I agree with the sentiments of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, that we should look at this situation as we do the situation in Northern Ireland. If athletes boycott the opening ceremony, that is a different issue. It is, perhaps, an issue that should be explored by the different Olympic councils.

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator can discuss the matter further if the Leader agrees to a debate.

Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill: The International Olympic Council meets tomorrow to examine the matter. I agree with the sentiments of the president of the Olympic Council of Ireland, Mr. Pat Hickey, who stated that Irish athletes will not boycott the games. They have trained hard to achieve the qualifying standard and should represent their country at the games. I know everyone in this House will echo those words. I strongly disagree with the protestors in calling for athletes not to partake in the games. That is wrong and it is undemocratic.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: I begin by rightfully paying tribute to all those involved in the achievement of lasting peace in our country. I include in that remark the current Taoiseach and all former Taoisigh. I remind Members opposite that it was not the Party, following the signing of the Anglo-Irish Agreement, that went off to Washington ballyragging this country. My party has never played politics with Northern Ireland. It is right this morning we pay tribute to all involved. In particular, we should remember those who died and their families. We all want lasting peace. I join other Senators in calling for an urgent debate on the Olympic Games. I spoke on this matter in the House earlier in the week. I fundamentally disagree with a boycott of the Olymp- 145 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

[Senator Jerry Buttimer.] ics. It would be inappropriate for our Ministers, in particular the Minister for Foreign Affairs or the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, to attend them. We must send a strong message to China that we do not agree with its actions, that we are in favour of the protection of human rights and that what has happened to the people of Tibet is wrong but that equally it would be wrong to implicate and threaten our athletes who participate in sport and who, as Senator O´ Domhnaill said, have achieved qualifying times. We should send that message through diplo- matic channels. Senator O’Toole spoke about a Lusmagh revolution on yesterday’s Order of Business. This morning I ask the Leader if we would have a Lusmagh revolution in this House by using Standing Orders to invite Professor Drumm of the HSE to appear before it. We need account- ability in the management of our health service, which we are not getting. This morning we heard of renewed recruitment freezes, a ban on the use of agency workers and locums and the temporary closures of some of our hospital wards.

An Cathaoirleach: Is the Senator calling for a debate on the health service?

Senator Jerry Buttimer: I am calling not only for a debate but I am requesting that, under Standing Orders, we invite Professor Drumm to come to the House to take questions and to be held accountable for his actions and those of his board in the operation of the health service.

An Cathaoirleach: There is no provision for that under Standing Orders.

Senator Labhra´sO´ Murchu´ : On the tenth anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement we are celebrating the achievement of the impossible. I would not like to think it was a replay of the syndrome as to who was in the GPO in 1916. That is the wrong way to approach this. Senator Butler made a comment regarding a united Ireland. My honest belief is 11 o’clock that the people on this island are now united. That was evident when the Rever- end Ian Paisley met the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, and we all rejoiced in that. It did not matter to which political party one belongs; we are all Irish people, all part of the Irish nation. I believe that in years to come we will mark the Good Friday Agreement, celebrate and commemorate it in exactly the same way as we would have done any other glorious episode in Irish history. That is as it should be. This House played a major role in the peace process. Every Member contributed. We had an opportunity, in a balanced and democratic way, to express diverse views to ensure there would be a confluence of ideas. That was the idea of the dialogue. It happened in this House, in the North and internationally. It is vital we realise that the part we played should not in any way be sullied. I hope that after today we will move forward as one people, regardless of our persuasion in terms of religion or political affiliation, because if we do not and if the wheel comes around as it is currently, it will be impossible to reverse attitudes. We have a chance to go forward and if we truly want to salute all the people who are part of that process, the only way we can do it is with magnanimity and generosity. On the issue of the Olympic Games, I salute what Senators O’Toole and Hannigan said. They gave a new tone to this debate, namely, that there are two points of view. By starting from that base, we have an opportunity to proceed. My view at all times has been that one can be pro-Tibet without being perceived to be anti-China. I salute Senator Norris in this regard. He was a lone voice on Tibet in this House for several years when nobody else spoke on it.

Senator Joe O’Toole: No. 146 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

Senator Labhra´sO´ Murchu´ : He must be given credit for that.

Senator Joe O’Toole: The former Senator and President, Mary Robinson, did so and I raised this issue in 1987.

An Cathaoirleach: Allow Senator O´ Murchu´ to continue without interruption.

Senator Labhra´sO´ Murchu´ : In fairness to Senator Norris, I recall he was consistent and persistent on that issue. Last night I had the opportunity to host the Chinese ambassador at a function and I had the opportunity to discuss this issue. It struck me that this is what dialogue is about, namely, meeting representatives of the Chinese Republic. I do not regard myself as a major player or figure in Irish politics but when I can meet a representative of China in those circumstances and have a discussion, one can imagine what is happening further up the line. If we in any way detract or distract from that, we will weaken our position and power and we will not help Tibet in the long run. I agree we should have a balanced and reasoned debate here, at which the Minister for Foreign Affairs should be present. I do not believe that using the Olympic Games is the road to go in terms of boycotting the official opening, official launch or the games. That would be a retrograde step. While it might be an emotional knee-jerk reaction, it would not help Tibet, nor would it help China in what it is currently trying to do in terms of opening up to the rest of world and bringing to bear democracy and full human rights within its country.

Senator : Those of us who have been calling for a debate on the Olympic Games have been calling for a debate on whether there should be a political boycott of the opening ceremony, not a boycott of the games or a boycott by athletes. I renew my request to the Leader to ask the Minister for the Health and Children to come to the House for a debate on alcohol advertising, the issue of the football shirts from premier- ship clubs and the fact that replica jerseys with alcohol brands displayed across the front of them are still on sale in Irish shops. I raised this issue previously when Liverpool FC was not as much in the headlines as it is this week. I have since been assured by the Irish drinks industry that it operates a voluntary ban here on any alcohol branding on children’s jerseys or children’s merchandise. That is welcome but unfortunately it does not extend to products manufactured in the UK. I was informed only this week that Celtic and Rangers have stated they will with- draw their alcohol company sponsor from their children’s replica kits. This means we should put pressure on the Minister for Health and children to explain why there is not a similar ban in place here. If the industry here will not extend its ban to cover products manufactured in the UK, there should be a legislative remedy. I would like the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House to explain to us why that has not yet been done. I also ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on the issue of childhood vaccinations, which a number of us raised here two days ago. I raise not only the issue of the take-up of the MMR vaccine and the concern many of us have about a measles epidemic, but that a pressing issue for many parents of very young children is the availability of the BCG vaccine. This vaccine protects against tuberculosis, a disease that is on the increase. The vaccination is normally given to babies or infants just after birth in maternity hospitals. There is a problem with the supply of the BCG vaccine with the result that newborn babies are not being inoculated in hospitals. I have been informed that the HSE is doing all it can to ensure every child is getting this vaccination but there is a backlog. The Minister for Health and Children should come to the House to allay the concerns of many parents about the availability of the vaccine and to reassure us that all children will be vaccinated. 147 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

Senator Dan Boyle: The coming days will see the imminent publication of a Green Paper on local government reform and this House should take the first available opportunity to discuss the contents of that document. We should be aware that the need for local government reform is accepted across the political system. The existence of tribunals of inquiry come about in the main because of the existence of corruption in local government, which had been perpetrated by representatives of several political parties. The need to bring about reform in local govern- ment is an issue this House must take seriously. I hope such a debate would accept admissions from people involved in several political parties on the chronic planning that has come about as a result of that actual corruption and that it would also address the need to bring about real reform in our local government system. I join in the acknowledgement today of the tenth anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland are vastly different places because of it. In discussing the institutions that sprung from the Agreement, we must accept that it is still a work in progress and that there is still enmity between communities, particularly in the northern part of the island towards which we should be working to bring a solution. I support the call for a wider debate on the need for, and possibility of, a boycott of the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games. The awarding of the hosting of the Olympics is an intensely political act. It is given to a host government to show that government and its country in the best possible light. We have had experiences in the past such as the notorious 1936 Olympic Games with Adolph Hitler, and how its opening ceremony was used. We have seen how boycotts have been used for political purposes in the past, when President Jimmy Carter in the United States, seeking to be re-elected, decided not to send American athletes to the Olympics in Moscow in 1980 — and how the Russians replied in kind in 1984. There is a need to look at the Olympic Games in Beijing in a proportionate way to see how international disdain for the activities of the Chinese Government, particularly as regards Tibet, may be best expressed. I call for a debate in this House about appropriate measures such as looking at how the opening ceremony is broadcast and whether we should be encouraging Irish people to participate in it. That would be a good use of the House’s time.

Senator : I very much share the concern expressed this morning by Senator Twomey regarding the planned outsourcing of cervical smear tests to a laboratory in the United States, when we have three laboratories in particular in this country that have recorded an accuracy rating in this regard of 95%. I am told that this source in the US will not provide greater than 85% accuracy. This is not just a dubious initiative, but nonsensical. At a time of economic downturn here at home, more than 100 highly skilled jobs will be displaced, which are badly needed in Ireland. I look forward to the Leader addressing this and arranging a debate on it, if he can, or providing a satisfactory answer. With regard to the Daingean U´ i Chu´ is question raised by my colleague, Senator Joe O’Toole, I very much accept that the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Gormley, is a highly con- siderate man. I know he is paying attention to this but sadly, there is ongoing doubt and confusion because of the many signposts that just say, “An Daingean”. The Cathaoirleach’s county is at present very much in the news and Daingean in Offaly will become much better known. However, signs in my part of the country that simply mention Daingean or An Dain- gean are not complete. Dingle is an internationally known brand name——

Senator Joe O’Toole: Hear, hear.

Senator Paul Coghlan: ——and it has got to be restored. I am not saying the Minister is not dealing with this matter; I know he is, since I had a letter from him about it only yesterday. I should like to support Senator O’Toole in regard to it, nonetheless. 148 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

An Cathaoirleach: Time is moving on and there are still a number of speakers, with the Order of Business due to finish at 11.25 a.m. I call Senator Ormonde.

Senator Ann Ormonde: I, too, want to acknowledge the Taoiseach’s role in the peace process on the tenth anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. Without him we would not have reached this stage of peace. We have talked about many of the stakeholders who were involved in the peace process, but there is no question that without the Taoiseach and his facilitating skills, it would not have happened. It is shameful that people, with no stripes whatsoever, should seek to undermine the Taoiseach’s role.

Senator Paul Coghlan: Nobody is undermining anybody’s role.

(Interruptions).

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Ormonde, without interruption.

Senator Ann Ormonde: I also support the call for a debate on the Tibet situation. At a meeting yesterday of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs I said that politics and sport should not mix. To boycott the Olympic Games is not the road to go down. It is important to have the Minister here so that a proper debate can take place. We understand that the Dalai Lama is due to visit England, and we have asked that he should visit our Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. It might be a golden opportunity, too, for the Seanad to have a discussion with him, if that were possible.

Senator Liam Twomey: The Dalai Lama — we cannot get the Minister for Finance into this House, never mind the Dalai Lama.

Senator Ann Ormonde: We have talked before about alcoholism and its role in society to date. That debate should be kept on the agenda and we should have it very soon.

Senator David Norris: I do not propose to get involved in a contest of seniority, and I understand both Senators O’Toole and Ross raised this matter earlier in the last century.

(Interruptions).

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Norris, on the Order of Business.

Senator David Norris: It is very important we discuss this matter because there are different views. Different views may be held with integrity, but there is no factual question that the Olympic Games and the events surrounding it are intensely political. That is why political leaders from all over the world, who would not know the difference between ju-jitsu and an egg and spoon race, are attending. They will be doing side deals. The Chinese are driving the torch through Tibet. That is rubbing the nose of the oppressed in the dust and grinding it by imperialist aggression. What we have requested is a boycott by the athletes. We have not demanded, but requested. They should consider, as a matter of conscience, absenting themselves from the formal aspect of the opening ceremony, while going on to compete, of course. We want them to be there to honour us, to compete in this wonderful event. The Dalai Lama has issued a statement this morning in which he says that it is appropriate and right that the Olympic Games should go to Beijing. The Chinese people, whom he honours and respects, deserve this, he says. Protests should be peaceful, he emphasises, but he also says the reason for them is the extinction of freedom of speech in Tibet. 149 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

[Senator David Norris.]

Those who attended the meeting yesterday of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, such as Senators Ormonde and Hannigan, were intensely moved by the story of a young woman, three generations of whose family in Tibet had been tortured and murdered. It is a small thing to ask, a symbolic gesture. I quoted James Joyce who said that sometimes absence is the highest form of presence. By absenting themselves physically a moral point will be made. Those of a strong nationalist persuasion should be aware that historically, Ireland was the first country to boycott the Olympic Games. In London in 1908 the athletes refused to compete in order to show their horror at the fact that our imperial overlords refused to grant the limited measure, even, of Home Rule. For those reasons we should consider this. A Fianna Fa´il Member at yesterday’s meeting made a very interesting comparison. He said that putting the torch through Tibet was like Orange bands parading provocatively through Catholic and nationalist areas, and we should remember this. Senator Ormonde is right in saying that an invitation has been formally extended by the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs to His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. It is something that may be considered. I have certain proposals, which I have communicated to Senator O’Toole, who is our representative on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. However, I do not want to gazzump the matter. It would be inappropriate to raise particular proposals here before they have passed before the committee.

Senator Camillus Glynn: I want to echo Senator Dan Boyle’s comments on the publication of the Green Paper on local government reform, as it is timely for this to happen. In many respects local government has not been given its full potential. Many Governments over the years have added to the role of local government in various items of legislation. However, the time has come for a complete overview of local government and how it addresses the needs of the people it serves, especially with regard to the role of locally elected members. I am excited at the prospect that new town councils will possibly be created. There is a glaring need for this and I very much look forward to it. It would be remiss of me not to mention the Taoiseach’s role in the Good Friday Agreement because I was a Member of this House when it was signed. I recall speaking to An Taoiseach then — it was at the time his mother died. Nevertheless, he was there as the great facilitator and peacemaker, forever active in trying to find the middle ground, as indeed he did. Senator Butler is correct in saying the people of this island are united in their wish for peace. One of the exciting aspects to being a Member of this House is the variety of professions and walks of life represented here. The composition of the Seanad under the Constitution provides for that. One very noble profession for which I have a lot of time is the legal profession. It is a profession that ensures due process is afforded to all——

An Cathaoirleach: Is the Senator calling for a debate? Six Senators wish to contribute.

Senator Camillus Glynn: I will not take as long as others and have just one more point to make. It is a pity a profession that sets itself up as the champion of due process does not wish it to take place. It is a great pity that Senator Regan has used parliamentary privilege as a bunker from which to accuse, in a cowardly way, a person on which the Mahon tribunal or any other tribunal has made no conclusion. He has not the guts to wait until the results of the Mahon tribunal are issued and, in that regard, he has completely sullied the profession he represents. 150 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

I reiterate the call for the Minister for Health and Children to be invited to the House to debate the very important matter of organ donation. I am being contacted constantly by one or two people in my county of Westmeath who have first-hand knowledge of what it is like to lose a loved one who could have been saved had there been a different system of organ donation. This is a matter of urgency and I would welcome a debate on it.

Senator Brendan Ryan: I propose an amendment to the Order of Business to facilitate the consideration of No. 11 on the Order Paper, First Stage of the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Bill 2008. Will the Leader allow for this to enable us to proceed to Second Stage? I would appreciate a response from him on this matter.

Senator : I support those seeking dialogue with China, in respect of which we have a very clear template based on the events in eastern Europe. On foot of supporting internal changes in the Soviet Union, the walls eventually came crumbling down and freedom spread throughout eastern Europe and into Russia itself. We should continue to use this tem- plate and engage in dialogue to address the many issues that pertain to China, not just in respect of events in Tibet but also Tiananmen Square, and those countries in which China has an influence, including Burma and Sudan. In the south of Sudan, there has been a genocide of the indigenous population. In the east of Sudan, troops are killing their own people. China has significant influence in this region and therefore, through dialogue, we can take great steps forward. Senator Joe O’Reilly made a very good point on the WTO negotiations involving Com- missioner Mandelson. Some aid agencies cannot afford to allocate the same amount of food as last year because of the increasing cost of the commodities involved. The European Union could find itself in disrepute if it starts to decrease production at a time when it needs to increase it significantly. On a nightly basis, we hear country after country is blocking exports of rice and other commodities. The position is becoming quite serious. We are in a position to increase production significantly given that we recently asked the farming community to reduce production. This matter should be addressed as a matter of urgency.

Senator : I support Senator Hanafin’s remarks on the WTO round of talks, which matter was raised yesterday by Senator O’Reilly. It is very important that we debate this at the earliest date possible. The end is almost nigh in respect of the negotiations and, if we are to proceed as planned by Commissioner Mandelson, Irish agriculture will be wiped out over night. The proposed measures are that serious and draconian and therefore a debate should be held urgently. I join my colleagues in commending the role played by the Taoiseach in making progress in Northern Ireland. I welcome the fact that we can celebrate the anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. It is regrettable that the agreement was not reached earlier. The Taoiseach’s main skill in respect of Northern Ireland was his ability to bring his own colleagues on side and change the mindset of his own political party and other nationalists on this island such that they would adopt the view that progress could be made only through consent. One should bear in mind what was on offer in 1974 in Sunningdale and recall Seamus Mallon’s view that the Good Friday Agreement was “Sunningdale for slow learners”. More was on offer in 1974 than was on offer in the Good Friday Agreement. It is a tragedy that 3,000 to 4,000 people died in the interim, thus proving that the political leaders of 1974 were correct. We must reflect on the progress made in the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985. The Taoiseach has had outstanding achievements, which I acknowledge fully, but I do not believe one can be in any way proud of his or his party’s role in opposing the Anglo-Irish Agreement. In politics 151 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

[Senator Paul Bradford.] we all do things of which we are ashamed, and the Taoiseach, on reflection, must not be pleased with his role and that of his party in 1985. Debates are requested regularly on the health service, in respect of which Senator Buttimer asked whether it would be possible under Standing Orders to invite Professor Drumm to the House to make his case. When we invite the Minister for Health and Children, she arrives and advises us that health services are a matter for the HSE. There is grave concern about the future of the hospital in Mallow. While the HSE claims it has increased the budget by 15%, there is now no surgical cover available at the weekend. The very future of the hospital is under threat. These are the substantive matters that we need to discuss, be it with the Minister for Health and Children or Professor Drumm. The buck is being shoved between one and the other and this is very disappointing. Perhaps we could consider Standing Orders to determine whether it is possible to hear a presentation by the person who appears to be making the decisions, namely Professor Drumm.

An Cathaoirleach: There are three speakers remaining but their time has expired. I will make an exception for them if they are very brief.

Senator Joe O’Reilly: In deference to the Cathaoirleach’s wish that we be brief, I rise only to formally second Senator Ryan’s proposition that we consider the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Bill 2008 today. I welcome the cross-party support for a very urgent and full debate on the most pressing crisis confronting our country at present, the WTO talks.

Senator : Again, in deference to the Cathaoirleach, I will focus on just one point, that is, the economy and the current rate of inflation, as referred to by Senator Regan. We find ourselves in a unique position in that the value of goods and services entering our economy is declining because of changes in the exchange rate, yet the inflation rate is increas- ing. This will set the background for the very difficult environment into which we will all move. While I accept there are many international forces that are not the responsibility of the Government, I believe certain domestic developments that are the responsibility of the Government are contributing to the increase in the rate of inflation. I refer to the performance of certain sectors of our economy. In whatever debate the Leader organises, I ask him to have it focus on this matter. There are measures we can adopt and a new Minister for Finance and Taoiseach should take responsibility in this regard.

Senator Ro´ na´n Mullen: I, too, will be brief. I was in Belfast yesterday and it was a joy to walk down streets on which one felt there was a sense of normality. This is a great credit to all the parties involved as we celebrate the tenth anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. I welcome the remarks of Senator Bradford that we should acknowledge that no side is always right or wrong. By and large, people have been generous and correct in paying tribute to the Taoiseach on his very important role in Northern Ireland. Everybody in this House has acknowledged this and I have not heard any sniping. I was disappointed to hear a former Member of the House question the undoubtedly heroic contribution of the Taoiseach at the time of his mother’s death. An unfortunate remark was made on the airwaves to the effect that the Taoiseach’s contribution might have been therapeutic. This remark lacked generosity. Undoubtedly the Taoiseach’s contribution at the time in question really demonstrated his statesmanship in this matter. Briefly, on the subject of the Olympics, it is very important we have this debate. I am disap- pointed at the comments of the President of the Olympic Council, Mr. Pat Hickey. He got his 152 Order of 10 April 2008. Business language wrong. Accusing politicians of hypocrisy ignores the fact that there is a serious issue here. It is right to say sport can transcend conflict but that generally happens when the sport is taking place on neutral ground. It does not easily happen in a country such as China that imprisons people for their religious and political beliefs. As we speak, members of Falun Gong are persecuted and Catholic bishops are missing. This issue must be raised. I do not think it is a matter of boycotting the Olympics but there must be a serious debate about whether the mere presence of our athletes would send out a message of consent. I remarked before Easter that we might be putting trade considerations ahead of everything — fumbling in a greasy till, as it were. We might do the same thing by engaging in sporting activity in a blase´ way without offering any protest. This is an important and complex debate in which there must be respect for different points of view. The issue of concern for human rights must take precedence in our deliberations.

Senator Donie Cassidy: My responses will be short because Ministers are waiting to come into the House. I appreciate the effort they have made at very short notice as the matter was placed on the Order Paper only yesterday morning. Senators Twomey, Butler, Regan and Donohoe called for the Minister for Finance to give the House an up-to-date report on the economy and the challenges that face it. In addition to peace in Northern Ireland, the success of the present Government has been the economy. Ireland has been transformed in the past ten years. We must recognise the facts. The reason that former Taoiseach Garret FitzGerald and his party did not get a vote of confidence from the people right up to the present was because their policies were opposite to those of today’s Government. Income tax of 65%, a 2% health levy and another 1% on something else meant that we were paying 68% on incomes during that period. Facts are appreciated by everyone. Members who state statistics to the House should offer the entire body of statistics. I have great pleasure in allocating a half-day of debate on the economy, examining where we have come from and where the Minister sees our direction to be.

Senator Camillus Glynn: Hear, hear.

Senator Donie Cassidy: I take any matter that Senator Twomey has requested of me since I became Leader of this House. We have worked closely together in the Da´il. I will be guided by the leaders of the House and will discuss with them at the weekly meeting on Tuesday whether we should wait for the new Minister for Finance to come in three weeks’ time or whether we should take a report from the Ta´naiste and existing Minister for Finance.

Senator Mary M. White: The Ta´naiste.

Senator Donie Cassidy: Senators Twomey, Buttimer, Bacik, Coghlan, Ormonde, Glynn and Bradford raised various issues concerning the Health Service Executive and the health services. I am pleased to inform the House, as I did yesterday, that the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, will be in the House on Tuesday, 22 April. All issues regarding health and the HSE may be taken on that day. Senators O’Reilly, Regan, Hanafin, Bradford and, most particularly, Senator Carty, who has been discussing the matter with me weekly, called for an urgent debate about the proposals of the World Trade Organisation, WTO, and every other matter concerning Commissioner Peter Mandelson. I am pleased to inform the House that the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Mary Coughlan, will be in the House next week to deal with this issue.

153 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

[Senator Donie Cassidy.]

Senators O’Toole, Norris, O´ Murchu´ , Ormonde, Boyle and Mullen asked for an urgent debate on Tibet. I have no difficulty with this issue and will try to make an appointment with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, at the earliest possible time. Senator O’Toole and Senator Coghlan called on the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, to give an up-to-date clarification on the nam- ing issue of Dingle-Daingean Uı´ Chu´ is. I know Senator Coghlan has been closely allied with Deputy Healy Rae on this matter. I notice great interest among Deputies and Senators from Kerry in this regard, even those now living elsewhere. We all want to see the issue addressed. I will try to have this done at the earliest time possible. Senators Hannigan, O´ Domhnaill, O´ Murchu´ , Boyle and many others expressed their con- cerns about the situation in China. I will take the debate on Tibet which will address those requests. Senator Hannigan raised the matter of house prices. These have been substantially reduced offering much relief to the first-time house buyer. I sympathise with such buyers. We were all in that category at one time. It is a serious challenge for a person to part with in excess of 30% of his or her weekly disposable income to pay for a home. The Irish have been excellent in this regard. Prices are now nearing the bottom end. Recently I quoted a house price from the midlands, offering a brand new, semi-detached, three-bedroomed house with everything in place for \195,000. I can now recount to the House that in many larger towns such as Mullingar, Athlone or Tullamore, it is possible to get a four-bedroomed, semi-detached house with fitted kitchen for \260,000. Now is the right time to buy.

Senator Ro´ na´n Mullen: Should Senator Cassidy declare an interest?

(Interruptions).

Senator Donie Cassidy: We have a duty to tell first-time house buyers, young couples with no previous experience, that there is unbelievable value in the marketplace today. It will not last forever. It is never the wrong time to do the right thing. I offer the House the benefit of my experience and my opinion which is all any Member can do. I will remind the House, perhaps in 12 or 18 months, when prices have again increased by 25% or 30%, that they were told this by the Leader of the House on this historic day, the tenth anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. Senators Hannigan, O´ Domhnaill, Buttimer, O´ Murchu´ , Butler, Boyle, Ormonde, Bradford, Mullen and indeed all Senators present this morning wish to congratulate everyone who has brought this date into being. Every party played a part and we all acknowledge that. Every person on this island has brought the situation to where it stands today. The former British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, Senator George Mitchell, President Bill Clinton and the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, made a magnificent effort to bring us to where we are now. I am really proud of the Taoiseach’s achievements. As Senator Ormonde remarked, there are few people who would have worked in the morning on Holy Thursday, come down south for their mother’s funeral, gone back and worked through the night. According to the Taoiseach’s account, a 22-part shopping list arrived on the table at 5 a.m. on Good Friday morning. When the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mo Mowlam, became disap- pointed at that late stage the Taoiseach said that the items on the list must be addressed. They sat down and three and a half hours later they were addressed. That determination and ability must be recognised. It was done by one of our own. Let us give credit where it is due. 154 Order of 10 April 2008. Business

Senator Mary M. White: Hear, hear.

Senator Donie Cassidy: We have the agreement today. All our forefathers, whether we are Fine Gael, Labour or Fianna Fa´il, were at one at one time. Where were we all in 1913 and 1916? We were all together in the GPO.

Senator David Norris: We were not. Go away out of that.

Senator Donie Cassidy: No one should think, just because they are pseudo-intellectuals or because they were reared with a silver spoon in their mouths, that they are better than any- one else.

(Interruptions).

Senator Donie Cassidy: I can tell the House that when we examine our family trees, we know who was who when the call was made. It is not necessary to go back as far as the grandparents to find out who was on the right side or the wrong side. We were all on the same side.

Senator David Norris: So we are on the wrong side now.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: We are all Irish.

Senator Donie Cassidy: We were all on the same side so let us be proud of where we have come from.

Senator Eugene Regan: Hear, hear.

Senator Donie Cassidy: Let us live up to the people who made the sacrifices.

Senator Mary M. White: Hear, hear.

Senator : We are all back on-side again.

Senator Donie Cassidy: Senators Boyle and Glynn called for a debate on local government reform. I agree with this. There will be time allocated for it. The new town councils are long overdue for towns like Mullingar with a population of 23,000 or 24,000. This must be addressed as a matter of urgency. The Chairman of the is a Member of this House and its Deputy Leader. I wish him well this weekend at his party’s Ard-Fheis and look forward to taking this matter in the House at the earliest possible opportunity. Senator Glynn called for a debate on the legal profession. Many of us here would like to participate in that and acknowledge the great contribution the legal profession has made down through the years since the setting up of the State in 1921. We have strong views on certain matters in this regard, but it has made an immeasurable contribution and I put that on the record of the House. Senator Glynn also called again for a debate on organ donation. I already made a commit- ment on this yesterday and have no difficulty in allowing time for it. Senator Ryan proposed an amendment to the Order of Business. I am prepared to accept this amendment and to allow it to proceed.

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Ryan has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: “That No. 11 be taken before No. 16.” The Leader indicated he is prepared to accept this amendment. Is the amendment agreed? Agreed.

Order of Business, as amended, agreed to. 155 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

Consumer Protection (Amendment) Bill 2008: First Stage. Senator Brendan Ryan: I move:

That leave be granted to introduce the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Bill 2008.

Question put and agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach: When it is proposed to take Second Stage?

Senator Brendan Ryan: Next Tuesday. Second Stage ordered for Tuesday, 15 April 2008.

Kidnapping and Detention of Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion. Senator Ann Ormonde: I move:

“That Seanad E´ ireann:

— expressing its outrage at the kidnapping and detention for political ends of hostages, held by illegal armed groups in Colombia, including in 2002 that of Ms Ingrid Betan- court, a former member of the National Senate of Colombia and a candidate for the Presidency of Colombia;

— appalled by the written and photographic evidence recently recovered by the Govern- ment of Colombia that portray the inhuman conditions in which Ms Betancourt is being held;

— recalling further that Ms Betancourt has dual French-Colombian citizenship and is therefore also a citizen of Europe;

— regretting that in the last two years, proposals made to facilitate a humanitarian exchange resulting in a release of all hostages held by illegal armed groups, including efforts by the governments of France, Spain and Switzerland have not been successful to date;

— noting the renewed efforts made by the President of France with the full support and encouragement of all the Member States of the European Union;

— noting also efforts at intermediation made by the President of Venezuela, which were acknowledged in the Council Conclusions on Colombia of 19 November 2007, and further recent offers of intermediation made by the Presidents of Argentina and Brazil;

— welcomes the recent offer of the Colombian Government to create a ‘zone of encoun- ter’ for a humanitarian agreement and the offer of the Episcopal Conference of Col- ombia to act as mediators in securing the release of the hostages;

— calls upon the illegal armed groups in Colombia to release all hostages without delay and on all involved parties to demonstrate the necessary political will to bring an end to this brutal affront to human rights and dignity; and

— continues to support the Government of Colombia in its search for a negotiated sol- ution to the internal armed conflict, including through direct engagement with those 156 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

illegal armed groups which may be prepared to negotiate, and to bring lasting peace to Colombia.”

I reserve my right to speak later.

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Michael Ahern): This is an opportune moment to consider the plight of all those held hostage in Colom- bia, including Ms Ingrid Betancourt. In unanimously adopting its motion on 20 December 2007, the Seanad has already expressed its outrage at the detention of Ms Betancourt. The Govern- ment and Irish people share these sentiments. We were appalled by the written and photo- graphic evidence recovered last year by the Government of Colombia that portrayed the inhuman conditions in which Ms Betancourt is being held. We are extremely concerned by further evidence in recent weeks of her failing health and the appalling conditions of her detention. We all recall that Ms Ingrid Betancourt is a former Colombian presidential candidate and activist for human rights and environmental issues. During the Colombian presidential election campaign in February 2002, she and several colleagues visited the demilitarised zone in Colom- bia in order to hold talks with the FARC guerrillas. Ms Betancourt was taken hostage by FARC and she has remained in detention for the six intervening years. However, Ms Betancourt and the other hostages are not forgotten in their plight. As what has been termed the “white march” in Paris last weekend showed, they have the support of all of us in their fight to secure their freedom. In 2004, my colleague, the former Minister of State, Deputy Noel Treacy, met Ms Betancourt’s husband and offered the support of the Irish Government and people for his wife and other hostages in Colombia. Ireland, together with our EU partners, welcomes recent initiatives to secure the release of the hostages and bring an end to the internal armed conflict. I very much regret that the recent joint humanitarian mission to Colombia to treat Ms Betancourt and other hostages was not allowed access to them. However, efforts do not stop there. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner is due to travel to Colombia soon to discuss the situation after the joint French, Spanish and Swiss humanitarian mission was denied access by the FARC. We fully support these initiatives. I would also hope that all those with influence on the FARC will use it to positive ends. At EU level, the General Affairs and External Relations Council of the European Union most recently adopted Conclusions on Colombia on 19 November 2007. Ireland was actively involved in the negotiation of these conclusions, which expressed the EU’s total solidarity with the Colombian people, its full support for the Colombian Government in its search for a nego- tiated solution to the internal armed conflict and underlined the importance the EU attaches to the ongoing implementation of the Justice and Peace Law. The Council further expressed its hope that progress would be made in taking forward nego- tiations in order to reach a humanitarian agreement, to secure the release of all hostages, to end the armed conflict and to bring lasting peace to Colombia. In the same spirit, the Council welcomed all initiatives taken with the Colombian Government’s support with the objective of promoting a successful peace process. The Government of Colombia has repeatedly stated its commitment to bringing to an end all terrorism in Colombia within the framework of the Justice and Peace Law. This law, passed in 2005, provides an overall legal framework for the demobilisation, disarmament and reinte- gration of illegal armed groups into Colombian society. The Justice and Peace Law, which was 157 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

[Deputy Michael Ahern.] adopted through a lengthy democratic political process, strikes a difficult balance between peace and justice. The process of peace negotiations between the Colombian Government and the right-wing paramilitary group, AUC, began in 2003 with between 30,000 and 40,000 combatants having been demobilised on completion of the process in 2007. The Government of Colombia is cur- rently engaging in dialogue with the left-wing guerrilla group known as the ELN in pursuit of a negotiated peace agreement. However, negotiations between the major left-wing guerrilla group, the FARC, and the Government have not yet commenced. The EU has expressed its support for the Colombian Government’s policies aimed at ensur- ing the rule of law, legality, security of persons and human rights. The EU has also condemned systematic breaches of the most fundamental human rights, including the right to life and to liberty, perpetrated by all terrorist groups in Colombia. The Government will continue to monitor the situation in Colombia through our Embassy in Mexico City, which is accredited to Colombia, as well as in co-operation with our EU part- ners with resident diplomatic missions in that country. Ireland is fully supportive of efforts to bring a peaceful resolution to the conflict in Colombia, including the release of Ms Ingrid Betancourt and all the hostages held by illegal armed groups in Colombia. Ireland will continue to work with its EU partners towards a solution and will continue to support the Government of Colombia in its search for a negotiated solution to the internal armed conflict, including through direct engagement.

Senator Frances Fitzgerald: I wish to share my time with Senator Hannigan. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, to the House today and thank him for coming here to address this all-party motion. Many Senators have expressed their concern about the situation in which Ms Ingrid Betancourt finds herself in Colombia today. Any right- thinking person would be horrified at her situation. It is very distressing to read of the appalling circumstances in which she has been held for the past number of years. I am sure many Senators have read Lara Marlowe’s accounts in of what has been happening to her. Information has come to light through one of the hostages who has been freed. In a recent article in The Irish Times, Lara Marlowe wrote that “saving Betancourt is now a race against time”. In the letter which was smuggled out from the jungle where she has been kept chained to a tree and held in the most appalling conditions, Ingrid Betancourt described herself and other hostages as the living dead and that her legendary strength had left her. She said that “nearly six years of captivity have shown me that I am no longer as courageous, intelligent and strong as I thought”. The article stated that in a letter to her mother, she said that death would be a relief and “a sweet option”. Lara Marlowe also wrote that Ingrid Betancourt’s letter stated that she had found out that her father had died from reading an old newspaper cutting in the encampment. It is almost beyond belief to imagine that people would be as cruel and inhuman to any human being as they have been to this woman. Ingrid Betancourt was a Green Party Senator in Colombia, was very involved in the peace process, took risks for her country and went to meet with the rebels. Some would say that what she did was somewhat foolhardy but she said she felt she had to take those risks for peace at the time. It must be an appalling situation for her two children to experience and for them to hear on an almost weekly basis that their mother’s health is deteriorating.

158 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

Most recent reports suggest that her life is at risk. I commend the efforts being made all around the world. This is why it is important that we play our part in the Seanad. The French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, has taken many initiatives in recent weeks to try to ensure that she is freed. He has made people available with airplanes and has involved the army to ensure that if a rescue is possible, it will be there to do it. At European level we have been playing our part. The President of the European Com- mission, Jose´ Manuel Dura˜o Barroso, has been meeting with the President of Colombia to try to effect change. This is what we must do. We must work at national, European and world level. Ingrid Betancourt is a European citizen by virtue of her dual French-Colombian citizen- ship. Her only crime is her commitment to democracy and freedom of speech and expression. Under no circumstances does anybody deserve to be treated the way in which she has treated. I ask the Minister to ensure that the Government raises her situation at national, European and UN level, given the urgency of the situation. I ask that the Government takes every action it can. We must show solidarity with a woman who is being kept in the most extreme cir- cumstances.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: I also welcome the Minister of State to the House and thank Senator Fitzgerald for sharing her time so that I can speak. My party and I will support this motion. Ingrid Betancourt is an inspirational person for many people across the world, myself included. I have seen a documentary and read much about her. She is truly one of those people who is involved in politics for all the right reasons. At the time she was kidnapped, she was attempting to liaise with FARC guerillas to find a solution to the strife and troubles affecting her country. She was acting in good faith for the lot of humanity. Her kidnap by FARC was a cold and callous act and does its cause no good. Her continued captivity is a cause for concern. I am worried about reports about her health and how she is being treated. It is very depressing to see the impact it is having on her family. Her son and daughter give birthday greetings through the radio in the hope that she might be listening in the jungle. They recorded an announcement about the death of her father, the former ambassador to UNESCO, and played it on the radio in the hope that she might be made aware of her father’s death. It is a terrible way to have to live. Over the past six years as teenagers and now as young adults, her children have been without their mother. The impact on the family can only be imagined. That FARC continues to hold her in captivity does its cause no good. This motion can help to impress upon FARC that it needs to release her for the good of humanity and for peace.

Senator Ann Ormonde: I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I am very pleased to be here to talk about the plight of Ingrid Betancourt. When I read the articles during the week, I was appalled by her state of health and the cruelty of her captivity. I did not think such a thing would happen today and that people could be so cruel and without feeling. It is a golden opportunity for us to put this issue on the international stage and talk about it here to see how best we can highlight her plight. When one thinks about all that she was doing and her struggle against corruption and drug trafficking, one sees that she was simply trying to bring about democracy. She was not involved in crime. She was simply talking about freedom of speech and how her country and the demo- cratic state could be reformed. She risked her life and the lives of her children to serve this cause.

159 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

[Senator Ann Ormonde.]

She is now in her seventh year of captivity and there is a growing urgency about her situation and that of the other hostages, who are held illegally. Her crusade has earned attention and we must acknowledge that it is a crusade at this stage. I am delighted that France, Spain and the so called “White March” have highlighted this to such an extent. We must join with other EU member states in bringing this to national and international attention to fight the guerillas and highlight how we can release this very ill woman. It is very important to show that Ireland has not forgotten the plight of these hostages. We must have this debate and do it through our work and through talking about it wherever we are. Initiatives by EU partners are very important and we must keep encouraging member states to talk about it, as we are doing here. I hope every other Parliament throughout Europe will highlight this issue. The question is one of how to support the Colombian Government in its efforts and to get it to enter into dialogue to try to bring about her release. Drug barons and drug trafficking seem to have infiltrated all walks of life in Colombia. They have infiltrated the local economy, the banks and parliamentarians. It is a question of how one breaks that down. Ingrid Betancourt is a wonderful woman who has done so much. We must stand up here as this is a golden opportunity for us to do what we can to highlight her situation. Assassination is an industry in Colombia. The fact that we and the rest of the world have talked so much about the plight of this woman has perhaps kept her from being assassinated. We must keep talking, as must every country, to try to and see if 12 o’clock we can release her from this awful, cruel activity. Like my colleagues here today, I am glad to have the opportunity to put this on the agenda. Hopefully we will get some measure of activity going in whatever shape or form through the media and talking at local meetings. We need our ambassador to keep the talking going because that is the only way it will get through to these people.

Senator David Norris: With the permission of the House I wish to share my time with Senator Bacik.

Acting Chairman (Senator ): Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator David Norris: I welcome the Minister of State to the House. It is a very good day. It is excellent that this motion is an all-party one signed by the representatives of the different groups. I had forgotten this motion was on the Order Paper when I tabled the other one as a result of direct contact from the campaign to release Ingrid Betancourt. I proposed the simple idea that there should be contact with FARC as clearly and directly as possible to request it to release her. I was very happy when I was advised by the office that the all-party motion was quite the best because while it includes Ingrid Betancourt, it broadens the matter. It is a good day that we are unanimous because it will send the right message. It was also just as well we took it because apparently we had no other business for today. This is a very important motion. First, there is the principle that kidnapping is a beastly, inhuman and indefensible practice because it entails using the physical distress of a human being as if he or she were merely an inanimate pawn in a political game. That is revolting and I condemn FARC for it. I know it started out as a left-wing organisation with, as it saw it, the interests of the poor. However, it has gone on from that and has gone down some very danger- ous ways involving kidnapping, terrorist explosions and the generation of enormous sums of money from drugs. 160 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

Ingrid Betancourt comes from a very distinguished family. Her father was the Colombian Ambassador to UNESCO, which shows a certain context. Her mother founded a refuge for street children, which again is a humanitarian concern. She organised political campaigns for her family and was elected to the senate, which gives us another interest because she was, like us, a senator. She received the highest vote in the election in which she was successful. We also have an interest in her because she is a European citizen. She has dual citizenship, being also a citizen of France. It is appropriate and right and we have locus standi to raise this issue. After she was elected she took her principles to where they led her and she impugned the reputation of one of her political sponsors, the President of Colombia, for corruption, which shows her extraordinary integrity. She met and negotiated with FARC in good faith on humani- tarian reasons. She indicated that she saw them as among the representatives of the oppressed. Then they cynically snatched her. From documents that have been released we know that while she was in the initial phase of that negotiation, FARC had decided already on the tactics of kidnap so that it could use her in its war against the government, which I unreservedly con- demn. It is horrifying to think of such a woman being smothered and dragged around the jungle given that she has hepatitis B, malaria and a serious dermatological condition. We know from that extraordinary and powerful article by Lara Marlowe that she has now endured such misery that she has said she would welcome the peace of death. She keeps in contact to a certain extent. Her mother broadcasts every day in the hope that it will be heard. For the first time Seanad E´ ireann has a representative of Sinn Fe´in, who is an excellent able and honourable person. I regret that he was unable to be here today for various reasons. I appeal to him that Sinn Fe´in should use its contacts because it has direct contact with FARC and we know that. It should use that contact. As I understand he is sympathetic, I hope that this might happen. I honour that remarkable man and campaigner for democracy and human rights, the Pres- ident of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, for the role he played. I very much regret that the Colombian Government invaded a neighbouring state and shot dead the number two in FARC, who was in charge of the negotiations. Talk about an own goal.

Senator Ivana Bacik: I thank Senator Norris for sharing time. I also welcome the motion and I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I am delighted to have played a role in bringing about the unanimous motion that was passed in December calling for the release of Ingrid Betancourt and the other hostages being held in equally appalling and cruel conditions by FARC in Colombia. When I raised this matter in the Seanad in September as a matter on the Adjournment, I said at the time it seemed the release of Ms Betancourt and others was immi- nent. In the interim another hostage has been released by FARC. Sadly however, Ingrid Betan- court and others remain held by FARC and yet again we seem to be at a crisis point. As others have said, reports of her deteriorating health have caused great concern. This week France and other European countries have sent a humanitarian mission to Colombia to seek to see Ingrid Betancourt and assess her condition. Unfortunately FARC has rejected that medical mission and Paris has now called it off. Again we seem to be at a crisis point. In a week when protests are being held in cities across the world, notably in France, it is appropriate that this House would express its deepest concern at the continued detention of a fellow democrat and a former senator, as Senator Norris has said. By highlighting Ingrid Betan- court’s case we do not belittle in any way the trauma and appalling conditions of the other hostages being held by FARC in Colombia. Pain is being felt by hundreds of other families whose loved ones are being held by FARC. As outlined in our earlier motion, the pressure being put on the FARC rebels and the Colombian Government to reach a solution for Ingrid Betancourt should also have a positive impact on bringing about the release of other hostages 161 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

[Senator Ivana Bacik.] being held by FARC. To put it in crude terms, Ingrid Betancourt is a very valuable hostage for FARC. However, the conditions of the other hostages being held by FARC will also be affected by what happens in Ingrid Betancourt’s case. As others have said, Ingrid Betancourt is a democrat. She was campaigning as a candidate in the presidential elections when she was kidnapped. She is being held in these appalling conditions because she believes in democratic rights. As democrats in this House we need to stand up in solidarity with her and to renew our call for the Government and the EU to put as much pressure as we can on the Colombian Government and the FARC guerrillas to nego- tiate to bring about the release of Ms Betancourt and other hostages. The motion we passed unanimously in the previous term shows how strongly all of us on both sides of this House feel about the continued detention of Ingrid Betancourt and how strongly we feel sympathy on humanitarian grounds and great compassion for her two children, mother, husband and other family members who have been campaigning so strongly across the world for her release. We have already called on the Minister to do as much as he can to put pressure on the Colombian Government and on FARC. However, it goes further than that. On the tenth anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, Ireland has much to tell other coun- tries about how peace processes can be brought about. Senator Norris has mentioned the pressure Sinn Fe´in could bring directly. I believe the Government could do more than simply support the initiatives of others and should take its own initiative, if necessary including sending members of the Government to Colombia to seek to bring about Ingrid Betancourt’s release at the earliest possible opportunity.

Acting Chairman: Before calling Senator Boyle, I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Kitt, to the House.

Senator Dan Boyle: In agreeing an all-party motion on this issue last December the House felt it was doing what it could to bring attention to seeking the earliest possible release of Ingrid Betancourt. In returning to the issue today and speaking directly to that motion we are amplifying and embellishing that call because of the circumstances in which Ms Betancourt finds herself. It is believed she is suffering quite seriously from malaria and hepatitis and has been engaged in a hunger strike for a number of weeks to bring attention to her issue. As a public representative she sought to improve the lot of the citizens of her country and she found herself in this intolerable situation. As Members of a similar Assembly, we have agreed this motion and we are speaking in a collective agreed way today on her situation. The politics of Colombia are very murky. It is difficult to identify where right and wrong and good and bad exist in terms of the issues that country must face. Other speakers have referred to how the Colombian Government has made things more difficult by its recent actions. The existence of the FARC guerilla organisation and its practices, particularly the taking of hostages, including Ingrid Betancourt, cannot be condoned by anybody who believes in democracy. In the past there was a peripheral involvement of Irish politics in the politics of Colombia. Those who felt the need to be apologists for these types of organisations and tactics must speak clearly now on the situation of Ingrid Betancourt. As has been mentioned, hope existed towards the end of last year that hostages would be released. Some hostages were released and one of them was the vice-presidential candidate with Ingrid Betancourt in the Colombian presidential election. Ingrid Betancourt, in addition to being a former member of the Colombian senate, is the leader of the Green Party in Colom- bia and she and several other party members were kidnapped. I had the honour of meeting Mr. Betancourt, Ingrid Betancourt’s husband, at a Green Party convention a number of years 162 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion ago and it is deeply disturbing that her kidnapping has been prolonged so unnecessarily over such a long time. I am grateful to Senators for taking the opportunity to return to this issue today and for speaking so clearly and collectively in seeking that this matter be addressed. I support the calls made by other Senators that the Irish Government, given its unique position in terms of international relationships and its experience in conflict resolution on this island, seek to engage in this issue by offering whatever support it can, particularly in the context of the EU. We have already seen the role President Sarkozy has undertaken in making diplomatic and other facili- ties available for securing the release of Ingrid Betancourt as quickly as possible. If and when that happens — and we all pray it happens soon — we should stay engaged in that process and ensure the hundreds of other people who are similarly held hostage are let go immediately. We should offer the benefit of our experience in conflict resolution to establish greater bilateral relations with the republic of Colombia to help it overcome the long-term effects of its recent and current experiences. That is the role this country and Government should be prepared to play.

Senator Fiona O’Malley: I am glad of the opportunity to speak on the case of Ms Ingrid Betancourt. It is important that we highlight not just Ms Betancourt’s case but also the plight of other hostages who are held not only with Ms Betancourt or in Colombia but throughout the world. It is appropriate that we do this in this democratic Chamber. It is important to recognise the risks that some people take in their native countries when seeking to represent people or when they are elected. Politics is a noble profession and some people risk their lives to pursue it. It is unfortunate, as Senator Boyle mentioned, that the political association Ireland has had with Colombia has been dominated by the shameful connection of Sinn Fe´in with FARC. The FARC originated as a political organisation to highlight the plight of the poor in Colombia and to seek justice through representing the poor. However, it has now become a dangerous paramilitary organisation. It is most unfortunate that Ingrid Betancourt, in trying to campaign politically, has become its hostage. It is always good to take the opportunity to remember people who are taken hostage when they seek to become political representatives. The issue of justice really comes to the fore. She is a woman of enormous courage and is a great humanitarian. This is not the first time a political chamber in Ireland has paid tribute to her. My colleague in South Dublin County Council, Councillor Cait Keane, had a motion passed some years ago on the issue and on that occasion I met Ingrid Betancourt’s daughter. In such situations one gets a sense of the pain for the family. This was a family growing up without their mother. It is one thing to experience the absence of one’s mother but it is another to learn of the dreadful ill treatment she has had to endure during her incarceration. We must remember all of the hostages, political or otherwise, who are held. It is a traumatic situation for them. These are people who are motivated only by the good of other people and how they believe they can help their communities. For that reason, it is appropriate that a united House should show solidarity with Ingrid Betancourt and other hostages being held captive. I am glad the Seanad is doing that.

Senator : Cuirim fa´ilte roimh an deis seo cur leis an ru´ n ata os comhair an tSeanaid. Mar a du´ irt an Seanado´ ir O’Malley, ta´ an rud ata´ ag dul ar aghaidh i leith Ingrid Betancourt scanallach. Iarraimid uilig go scaoilfı´ saor´ ı la´ithreach. Ta´ sı´ a´ choinnea´il ag FARC. I welcome this debate and commend the Independent Senators for putting forward this motion. The motion has the support of all Senators in the House, and rightly so. It is scandalous 163 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion

[Senator Pearse Doherty.] that this person is being held by FARC. We have serious concerns about her health but, regardless of her health situation, she should be released immediately. I urge everybody with any influence to seek her immediate release. The Irish Government is trying to do something about it but we should also use the power of the European Union, which has a duty to its citizen. We must also use the neighbouring countries that might have influence. Hugo Chavez has been able to secure the release of hostages held by FARC in the past and we should, through our diplomatic corps, impress on him and others the need to use their influences to secure her release. I am grateful for the opportunity to support this motion.

Senator Liam Twomey: Like other Members, I believe we should pass a strongly worded motion to seek the release of Ingrid Betancourt by FARC guerillas. On this island we have experienced the same type of massive change that is happening in many parts of the world. According to the adage, one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist. Fine Gael is the only political party on this side of the House that has experience of elected Members being assassinated in the fight for freedom. A Senator was also assassinated. One could say the successors of the people who assassinated the Members of this House are now in power in both jurisdictions on this island. That shows how change can happen and how we must accept what the hand of history deals us. However, we must always fight for democracy, and democ- racy is what we are discussing in this motion. FARC claims to represent the poor and downtrodden in their society but its actions in this case are simply turning its members into terrorists. They are not freedom fighters; this type of behaviour makes them purely terrorists. Furthermore, they give legitimacy to the Colombian Government acting with a heavy hand in the territories controlled by FARC. The Colombian Government is adept at acting in a heavy-handed manner and to some degree abuses the civil and human rights of individuals in these areas who may be innocent of the activities of FARC. If FARC released all these hostages, not just those who are known on an international level, it might allow the spotlight to be turned on how that country is being run. There are human rights abuses on both sides. When we see what is happening with Ms Betancourt, we see only one side of the argument. On the international stage FARC is painted purely as a narco- terrorist group. No legitimacy is given to what it claims is a fight for the human rights of individuals living in its territories. The message FARC should take is that if it wants to be taken seriously on the international stage and be seen as more than narco-terrorists, it must release all the hostages and stop this practice of keeping a people down by using terror and kidnapping. Kidnapping is a step up from assassination. In our society and through millennia we have seen that when one assassinates, it is over; when one kidnaps, one prolongs it. We have seen this happen to one of our citizens, Mr. Brian Keenan in Lebanon. The idea behind kidnapping is to make a person’s misery an international issue. Once one is assassinated, it is over. A former Italian Prime Minister was assassinated and is now long forgotten. People probably cannot even remember his name. However, when people are kidnapped and held for years it gives a notoriety to the organisation that does it. It is a despicable act and should be condemned by this House. The message we should try to send to FARC is that this type of behaviour paints it in the worst possible light. What Senator Norris said was interesting; Sinn Fe´in has a conduit to FARC. Whether it denies it or not, Sinn Fe´in had contact with FARC during the period when Sinn Fe´in was active in what we consider terrorist activities. It should use those contacts to explain to the people running FARC that it does not matter that their second in command has been assassinated by the Colombian authorities; in the eyes of the international community, they are still the bad 164 Kidnapping and Detention of 10 April 2008. Ms Ingrid Betancourt: Motion guys in this story and will remain so as long as they abuse the human rights of individuals as internationally renowned as Ms Betancourt. We should condemn all forms of violence because it happens across the world. We have talked about Tibet and Darfur. Often we do not talk about small, indigenous groups of people such as the Karen people of Burma, about whom nobody talks, and whose human rights are abused to an unbelievable degree. If this House wants to send a message it should be that everybody should condemn FARC for what it is doing and that FARC will never receive any recognition until it stops this terrorist behaviour.

Senator John Hanafin: I support what has been said in very strong and caring terms in connection with the case of Ms Betancourt. FARC has caused much suffering and mayhem. It is ostensibly a left-wing group, but in reality is more like a criminal group. The actions taken against FARC have sometimes been hampered by the lack of co-operation between neighbour- ing countries in South America. They should seriously consider how they manage the fight against terrorism. I think particularly of a recent response by the Colombians that drew a threat of war from the Venezuelan President. Co-operation is needed in particular when dealing with a group such as FARC. We have an interest in every case, but a particular interest in Ms Betancourt’s situation because she is a member of the European Union. She is a brave lady who went to an area to which she was specifically asked not to travel. In the interests of spreading the message of democracy she went there and was, unfortunately, captured. She has been treated in a dreadful manner and is in a distressing state. She has a family and her father died while she was in captivity. How does one deal with people who have links with other terrorist groups and crime? On the other side one deals with democratic nations that make unreasonable demands. It is a particularly difficult situation, like all other situations where we speak for the rights of the individual. We will continue to make progress and I commend the Minister for his efforts in this area in ensuring the voice of the Irish people, who have a tradition of supporting the less fortunate or those in a situation like Ms Betancourt’s, and seeking to ensure that their voice is heard. As a parliamentarian Ms Betancourt stands for all of us. A member of the Colombian Govern- ment, she was also a presidential candidate. The Green Party will have a particular interest in that Ms Betancourt was the head of the green movement in Colombia. In every aspect it strikes a chord with the Irish. I ask that we continue our efforts despite the manner in which the captivity has been conduc- ted and that all efforts will be made. It is very difficult when people ask for the release of prisoners who have been found guilty by due process. There was no due process in the kidnap- ping of Ms Betancourt. Even for those who have done such a thing we would always seek due process when their turn comes. It is no harm to remind them that the day will come when they will face the judge. For humanity, democracy and all that is right about human rights I share in the calls for the immediate, unconditional release of Ms Betancourt. I am not certain how an envoy or some manner of co-operation could be supported to find come common ground so that Ms Betan- court could be released. However, it could not be on the basis of people who were tried and found guilty in a court of law being released so that an innocent person could be freed.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman (Senator Gearldine Feeney): When is it proposed to sit again?

Senator Dan Boyle: Next Tuesday, 15 April at 2.30 p.m. 165 Telecommunications 10 April 2008. Services

Adjournment Matter.

————

Telecommunications Services. Senator Maria Corrigan: I thank the Cathaoirleach for giving me the opportunity to raise the matter of the provision of broadband in Glencullen in Dublin. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources recently had the opportunity to visit the offices of ComReg. It was a very interesting and informative visit. ComReg outlined to the committee the very heartening news that the provision of broadband in Ireland is rapidly increasing and is now falling within the average on the international tables of broadband pro- vision, having got off to a very slow start. That was very heartening to hear, but we still have some way to go. ComReg indicated it would be very surprised if there were parts of Dublin where it was not possible to avail of some form of broadband, whether cable or wireless. Glencullen is one of those parts. The pity of the matter and the reason I raise it today is that over the past six months, Eircom has spent approximately \100,000 on providing fibre-optic cables from the nearest village, Stepaside, to Glencullen to facilitate broadband provision. However, Eircom installed what is known as a cabinet but unfortunately it is not adjacent to the cabinet that holds the lines for the village of Glencullen, which is beside the local school. It will cost another \10,000 to \20,000 to complete the link but Eircom has indicated that it has no immediate plans to complete the provision of broadband. Glencullen is the highest village in Ireland and is located on a steep hill. For this reason, it is not possible to obtain wireless broadband there. It is completely dependent on the com- pletion of the final section of wiring. If a company has spent \100,000 on installing the basic fibre-optic cables required and only requires a further small amount of cabling to the cost of up to \20,000, it seems an awful shame that it would not just complete the job. This would ensure the library, school and the surrounding village has the same access to broadband services as the rest of Dublin.

Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Pat Carey): I am taking the debate on behalf of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and I will address the House on the question of broadband in the Glencullen area. The provision of broadband services is a major priority for the Government. In this context, the primary role of the Government is to formulate regulatory and infrastructure policies to facilitate the provision of high quality telecommunications services by competing private sector service providers. The broadband market in Ireland is fully liberalised and regulated where appropriate by ComReg, the independent Commission for Communications Regulation. Ireland’s growth in broadband penetration has continued to improve during 2007. Almost 20 service providers offer products to more than 85% of the population through a combination of DSL, fixed-wireless, cable, fibre-optic, and mobile technologies and as a result the average cost of broadband continues to fall. Fixed wireless broadband is available in the Glencullen area of Dublin, subject to survey. The latest market report from ComReg reported a total of 886,300 broadband subscribers at end of 2007. This figure includes mobile broadband and corresponds to a penetration rate of “20.5 subscribers per 100 of population” and represents a 12% increase on the third quarter in 2007 and a 71% increase on the same quarter in 2006. Ireland continues to be one of the fastest 166 Telecommunications 10 April 2008. Services growing broadband markets in Europe and has the fastest growing broadband rate penetration in the OECD. The State has undertaken initiatives to address the gaps in broadband coverage where the market has clearly failed. Direct funding has been provided under the national development plan for the provision of backbone infrastructure and to upgrade local access infrastructure. In addition, in partnership with local and regional authorities, the Government is continuing to fund the construction of high speed, open access metropolitan area networks, MANs, in towns and cities nationwide. These wholesale networks are enabling private sector operators to offer world class broadband services at competitive costs. The Department also offered funding assistance for smaller towns and rural communities through the group broadband scheme, GBS. The scheme, which was technology-neutral, subsidised the implementation of 127 projects in rural areas. This range of small to medium sized service providers have supported competition using a range of different technologies. In addition, these service providers have made use of the private and state owned regional backhaul links. These infrastructure interventions have helped expand competition in the regions by facilitat- ing the introduction of new service providers to areas where none existed a couple of years ago. However, the private sector will still be unable to justify the commercial provision of broadband services in some parts of the country. The failure of the market to bridge the digital divide in specific rural areas will be addressed through the Department’s national broadband scheme, NBS. The scheme will provide broadband services to areas that are currently unserved and will ensure all reasonable requests for broadband in unserved areas are met. The first phase of the procurement process for the NBS, the pre-qualification questionnaire phase, is complete and four candidates pre-qualified. The four candidates were BT Communications Ireland Limited Consortium, Eircom Limited, Hutchinson 3G Ireland Limited and IFA-Motor- ola Consortium. Following the withdrawal of the IFA-Motorola Consortium as a candidate, the remaining three candidates have commenced competitive dialogue with the Department and they are developing their proposed solutions to meet the requirements for the delivery of broadband to the unserved areas of the country. It is anticipated a preferred bidder will be selected and appointed in June 2008, with roll-out to commence as soon as possible thereafter. The broad- band product to be provided under the NBS will be broadly equivalent to those typically available on the Irish market with similar prices. The most appropriate mechanism to achieve this aim will be decided during the competitive dialogue process. The issue of broadband avail- ability is close to resolution and we are turning our attention to the new challenges facing the market, such as improving quality and speeds and further reducing costs of broadband access. It needs to be ensured Ireland’s consumers have available the most up to date and innovative products and services that are available on-line. A paper on next generation broadband is being finalised in the Department and will be published shortly for public consultation. The objective of the paper is to set out a strong framework for the development of next generation broadband in Ireland, including addressing the optimum role for Government both in terms of formulating and developing services and targeting direct investment. An expert international advisory forum on next generation broad- band critically evaluated the policy issues, options and recommendations contained in the draft paper. It is being amended to take account of the forum’s views and it will be published for public and industry consultation shortly. We need to position Ireland in order that it can stay at the forefront as an attractive destination for inward investment. Next generation broadband will be a critical element in our continuing efforts to do that.

167 The 10 April 2008. Adjournment

Senator Maria Corrigan: I thank the Minister of State for his response. Will he convey to the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources that Glencullen does not have access to wireless broadband? The local school, St. Patrick’s, and the library would benefit from such access.

Deputy Pat Carey: I will do so. The Minister is acutely aware of the issues applying to Glencullen and similar remote rural areas. He is confident the proposals outlined in my reply will address these serious deficits.

The Seanad adjourned at 12.50 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 15 April 2008.

168