17120 R. RESHA
speeches were interpreted "by somebody; do you know who acted as interpreter?— I think we had two interpreters,
Mr. Maguma and Mr. Tshabalala.
Henry Tshabalala?— That xs so, my lord.
And was he an accused at the Preparatory Exami- nation?— That is so, my lord.
Now, Mr. Resha, I had also at the adjournment referred you to this bulletin 'Welcome Freedom Volunteer' and I just want to point out to you that in this bulletin it said that the volunteers must learn to be, and the volunteers must teach, and then it refers to pamphlets like 'New Age', 'Righting Talk', 'Liberation', and 'InyanisO' which support Congress aims. Now I see also, as late as
1956, when you were still on the Secretariat of the Nation- al Consultative Committee, at that stage the Transvaal
Consultative Committee issued a circule AM.32 dated June
11th, 1956, in which it stated the National Consultative
Committee of the five Congresses had decided that from the most able, courageous consistent and reliable Congress members volunteers should be selected and formedinto
Volunteer groups. You remember that decision of the
National Consultative Committee, in 1956?— It's possible.
Nov/ this circular is directed "by the Transvaal
Consultative Comittee to the South African Congress of
Trade Unions, and it sets up tasks for volunteers, and then - "Task, 4: Every volunteer is required to read carefully, to study and to discuss with his group every issue of the following publications, New Age, Liberation,
Workers Unity, Congress Voice, Sejaba, South African Peace
Council's Bulletin, and Righting Talk." Now, would that be consistent with what the National Consultative Committee 17121 R. EES HA
wanted volunteers to do, to study and discuss every issue of those bulletins?— That would be consistent.
Now, Mr, Resha, you said on Friday that as far as 'Liberation' is concerned, the only person that you knew that was connected with it was Dan Thloome?— That
is so.
Do you know if he was a Communist?— I know that
Mr. Tloome was a Communist,
And you said that as far as 'Fighting Talk' is concerned the only person that you knew who was connected with that was Ruth First?— That is so.
Do you know if she was a Communist?— I know she was, my lord.
You didn't know if Lionel Bernstsin and Yetta
Barrenblatt were also connected with 'Fighting Talk'?—
Not to my knowledge.
You knew them, didn't you?— I know them very well.
And did you ever discuss 'Fighting Talk' with
them?— No,
How did you know them, as friends, co-strugglers
in the fight for liberation „„?— I know them as co- strugglers in the fight for liberation.
What Congress movements did they belong to?—
They both belonged to the Congress of Democrats.
Do you know whether any of them were Communists
?— I have no knowledge.
Now, 'New Age', the Rand representative that you knew was Ruth First?— That is so, my lord.
I take it you also knew that 'New Age' and its predecessor 'Advance' — that people like Carneson 17122 R. RES HA.
and Horwitz and Porman were closely connected with those
?— That is so, my lords.
Do you know them as having been Communists?—
I know that Mr. Carneson was, I don't know about the
others.
What about Porman?— I have no knowledge about
that •
Now, Mr. Besha, the only people that you knew
that were connected with these bulletins that were being
held out to your volunteers for study purposes and discus-
sion, 'New Age', 'Fighting Talk', 'Liberation' - - the
only people that you knew that were connected with and
responsible for those bulletins, were Communists?
MB. PISCHERt My lords, these are ex-members
of the dissolved Communist Party, if your lordship
pleases. 15
RUMPFF J; Yes.
MR. TRENGOVE; You know that after the Commu-
nist Party had been banned - do you know whether these
people changed their political views in any view, as a
result of the banning of the Communist Party?— I have 20
no knowledge,
Well , these people who were responsible for
these bulletins that I've mentioned, you know them as
ex-members of the Communist Party; did you ever enquire
as to whether or not they were using these bulletins to
put across Communist propaganda?— I've never enquired
into that.
Would such a thing concern you in any way, or
wouldn't it worry you?— It wouldn't worry me at all. 17123 R. EESHA
It wouldn't worry you at all?— No, my lords.
Because I want to put it to you, Mr. Resha, that what these bulletins were doing was to indoctrinate your people with Communist propaganda?— If that were so, my lords, these people would have been arrested by the
Government. I have ne-ve r investigated that myself, but if that were true they would have been arrested.
Mr. Resha, the one document that you've made spe- cial mention of, and which has not been mentioned in the ordinary circulars that were being used in the training 10 of volunteers, is this document 'Self Discipline for
Volunteers of the Congressof the People', being Dr.Naicker's speech at the 1954 Conference, TET.54. You said you used that for training?— That is so, my lords.
Did you use the whole of that document?— No, I've 15 never used the whole of any document for my lectures.
Now which portions didn't you use?— looking at it now, my lords, I don't think I used these portions on page 3, on gardening and handicraft.
Mr. Resha, how many times did you use this docu- 20 ment?— I cannot remember. I used it many times.
How many times?— I cannot remember.
Twice?— I cannot remember.
Mr. Resha, you cannot even give the Court some estimate?— Unfortunately not, my lords. 25 Why not?— Because I cannot remember.
Why can't you remember?— I cannot remember.
Resha, you don't want to remember?— I cannot rememb er.
You are not even prepared to give an estimate?— 30 My lords, I cannot remember. 17124 R. RESHA.
How many times did you lecture to volunteers?—
Many times.
How many times a week, over how many years?—
Once a week.
Over what period?— Over a period of four years. 5 And you cannot even - - this was used some time after September, 1954-?— That may veiy well be so.
Was this the type of thing you would use every week when you lectured?— I wouldn't say every week.
When you give a lecture you pick out what is good in a 10 particular document and you use it, and you don't make a record and say "This I picked out from this docunBnt and this from that" - - but I did use it; unfortunately
I cannot remember how many times.
Mr. Resha, what body of the African National Con- 15 gress decided that this should be used as a basis to train volunteers?— It was never decided that it should be.
Never decided?— No.
Mr. Resha, I have a document here alleged to have been found in your possession, RR.10; it's a letter of 20 the 12th June, addressed to "My dear Robbie", from some- body whose signature appears to be J. Dinku. Who is the author of that letter, do you know? I just want to know who Dinku is?— Dinku was a Congress member in Port Eli- zabeth. 25 What's his name?— Dinku is his surname.
And what's his ordinary name, J?— Johannes.
Johannes Dinku?— Yes.
Then I have another document here, RR.30, it's addressed "Dear Son of Afrika"; it's a letter of the
29th Octotoer, 1955 > and at the bottom there is the sig- 17125 R. RESHA
nature 'Joe'. Then there's page 2, a letter bearing the
signature "P. Adams". Could you just identify the authors
of those letters? — The first letter, my lords, is Joe
Matthews, the other one is Paried Adams.
Is that J.G.Matthews who was an accused with you
in the Preparatory Examination?— That is so, my lords.
The other is P. Adams, accused No.l?— That is so»
my lords.
Now this J. Dinku, I take it he was quite an im-
portant man in Port Elizabeth because he wants you to
- he wants to know if the Draft Constitution of the League
- - I take it the African National Congress Youth League
is ready and he wants you to send it to him cyclostyled?—
That is so.
Did you have a cyclostyling business there, or
was he on the A.N.C.Y.L. Executive, or what was his posi-
tion?— I don't know if he was in the A.N.C.Y.L. Executive,
but he was an active chairman.
Of what branch?— Active worker.
Of what branch of the African National Congress
?— New Brighton Branch.
He isn't also known as J. Matthews perhaps?— Not
as far as I know.
Here is another letter, RR.79, which is addressed
to "Dear Son of Afrika" , is that your signature on that
letter?— That is so.
And the person to whom you addressed that letter
would that be J.G. Matthews?— That is so, my lords.
Now then, Mr. Resha, there is another letter,
RR.53, it's a Youth Action Committee letter to the African
National Congress Youth League; would that be Kathrada 17126 R. RESHA
Accused No.3, signed on behalf of that committee?
KENNEDY J; He s igned the letter, did he?
MR. TRENGOVE; He signed the letter on behalf of the Youth Action Committee, my lords?— Thesignature is that of A.M. Kathrada, my lords.
That is the signature of accused No.3?— I do not know his signature but that is possible.
The letter came into your possession, it was found in your possession; did you get it from Kathrada or don't you know whether you got it from him?— I don't know now.
Mr.Resha, I would like you just to have a look at this bulletin, E.140, it's "World Youth Affairs bulletin issued by the World Youth Affairs Committee, Transvaal
Indian Youth Congress. Page 1830 of the record, my lords.
Do you know that bulletin, published by the World Youth
Affairs Committee, not that specific one necessarily, but that bulletin?— I remember seeing this bulletin, my lords.
Do you know by whom it was published; do you know the organisation?— Here the bulletin states that it is issued by the World Youth Affaird Committee, Trans- vaal Indian Youth Congress,
And did you know that body - did you work with that body?— In the Youth Action Committee I worked with the Transvaal Indian Youth Congress.
And do you know whether they had a World Youth
Affairs Committee?— I think they had a committee like that before we formed the Youth Action Committee.
I see. That would then be a bulletin published by that Committee?— By which Committee? 17127 R. RESHA
By the World Youth Affairs Committee? do you know that to be the position, or are you just reading it from that document?— I'm not sure now, my lords if I knew that to be the position, because the Transvaal Indian
Youth Congress were affiliated to the World Federation of
Democratic Youth before . ..
I see. Now, Mr, Resha, you were on the Transvaal
Peace Council Executive, and you were on there for a num- ber of months, is that so?— That is so, my lords.
To about the middle of 1954?— That should be so,
I'm not sure now.
You had some difficulty the other day in re- freshing your memory as to who were members of the Trans- vaal Peace Council that you knw. I just want to put one or two to you, to find out if it refreshes your memory in any way. Helen Joseph, accused No.2?— If she was in the
Transvaal Peace Council or on the Executive?
Transvaal Peace Council Executive . .?— I don't remember.
Kathrada?— I don't remember, it's possible.
Leslie Masina, accused No,8?— I don't remember seeing him at meetings.
Moretsele, accused No.12?— I don't remember see- ing him at the meetings5 it's possible.
J. Nkadimeng? Accused No015?— I don't remember.
Ruth First, accused at the Preparatory Examina- tion?— I don't remember seeing her at the Transvaal Exe- cutive meetings of the Peace Council.
Ida Ntwane?— I don't remember.
Josuf Cachalia?— I don't remember, my lords. 17128 R. RESHA
Mr. Resha, the African National Congress, in its policy to World international affairs, they followed the line of the Peace Council - the lines that the Peace
Council followed in South Africa, is that not so?— No, my lords. The African National Congress did not follow the policy of any specific organisation.
Well, I'm not suggesting that; I'm suggesting that the line that the South African Peace Council fol- lowed in South Africa in regard to world affairs, that line was adopted by the African National Congress in its attitude towards world affairs?— My lords, the African
National Congress to hqt knowledge has never adopted the policy of any organisation in regard to world affairs; it had its own policy. There is a possibility that its policy might be the same as the policy of another organi- sation., but it has never followed any organisation, in- cluding the Peace Council.
You were a member, an executive member of both organisations during 1954, and you w ere a member of both oiganisations for a much longer period; as a fact they both had the same policy towards international affairs, did they not? To your knowledge?— I don't understand the question. What is international affairs? If I under- stood you well, insofar as the African National Congress and the Peace Movement believed in peace, yes.
Take it on specific matters, Mr. Resha; mat- ters relating to Korea, Formosa, Veetnam, Kenya, Nato,
Ciato, and the 'H' bomb, and Western Germany, and the re-militarisation of Western Germany; Hungary - - all those matters - on all those matters the A.N.C. had the 17129 R. RESHA
same policy as the Peace Council; their policies were
similar?— That is possible, my lords, but I've never
studied the policy of these two organisations on the
specific issues mentioned, to see whether their policies
tally.
What was the policy of the African National Con-
gress towards the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, or
the South East Asiatic Treaty Organisation?— The policy
of the African National Congress to such organisations is
that such organisations are not desirable, because they
are organisations which are interested in bringing about
war.
They are organisations which are interested in
bringing about war?— That is so.
What was the policy of the Peace Council towards
those two organisations?-— The policy of the Peace Council
is that of opposition to any organisation or people or
country which is likely to bring about war.
And specifically towards NATO and CIATO?— They
opposed those organisations.
Yes. Was there any difference between the A.N.C.
and the S.A.P.C policy?— insofar as they are opposed to
war, there is no difference,
Regarding both these organisations, those orga-
nisations that want war, they both regarded NATo and
CIATO in that light?— In general, yes.
Mr. Resha, I think I have put this document
to you, TT.28, already, which are resolutions of the
A.N.C.Y.L. in April, 1953. Just have a look to see whether I have put it to you; I think I put paragraphs
12 and 13 to you?— Do you want me to look at the whole 17130 R. RESHA
document?
Well, read the heading and satisfy yourself that those are resolutions of the A.N.C.Y.L?— They are.
Similarly, A,50?— They are .
Anti-Atom Bomb campaign? did you take an indepen-
dent stand on that, or was your stand inspired by the
World Peace Council and the South African Peace Council
?— The African National Congress always takes an indepen-
dent stand.
I just want to put A.49 to you; it's a document which says "12th Annual Conference of the African National
Congress Youth League, May 1955"; inside the first page
it gives the speakers at that Conference; do you remember that?— I do, my lordsc
And turn to the last page, resolutions adopted at
that Conference; the whole document is a Conference Re- port, is it not?— That is so. And the last page contains
draft resolutions.
And were those resolutions adopted?— I do not know if they were passed in the same form, but there were resolutions passed at that Conference.
I just want to refer to the first resolution there, Mr. Resha„ "This Annual Conference of "the Trans- vaal African National Congress Youth League, meeting at a. time when the warmongers led by the United States
Government are preparing to throw the world into an atomic war by revising German militarism in Europe
forming war alliances like NATO and SEATO etc around
the countries of the Peoples Democracies, and interfer-
ing with the domestic affairs of the Chinese People who 17131 R .RESHA
want to liberate their country.... from the batfit Chiang
Kei Chek,(a) supports the demands of the World Peace
Movement and the South African Peace Council for banning all Atomic weapons and the reduction of all weapons of war, pledges itself never to participate in any war for / \ 5 the benefit of the Imperialists, and (b) Conference salutes the Pifth Festival of Youth for peace and Friend- ship arranged by the World Federation of Democratic Youth and the International Union of Students as part of the contribution of the world in the struggle for peace". 10 How, that resolution, would you agree with that?— Yes.
You do agree with that?— Yes.
You say that in 1955 the warmongers led by the
United States Government was preparing to throw the world into an Atomic war. How, who are these warmongers?— The 15 warmongers were the countries which were part of HATO and SEATO.
Who were they to your knowledge?— Britain,
France.
And they were forming alliances like HATO and 20 SEATO around the countries of the Peoples Democracies.
Which countries referred to as Peoples Democracies are those around which these warmongers were forming a ring?— The countries which refer to themselves as Peoples
Democracies and are known as such are among others Poland, 25 Czechoslovakia, Hungary, the Soviet Union, China . „ .
You also know that they are all countries that are Socialist in the sense that they are on the way to a Communist State?— That is what they claim, my lords.
And that is what you accept?— That is so. 30 17132 R. RES FA
And you say you demand, you support the demand of the World Peace Movement and the South African Peace
Council for the banning of the Atomic weapons. What does (b) mean; 'You pledge yourselves never to partici- pate in any war for the benefit of the Imperialists'; what does that mean, Mr. Resha, 'Never to participate in any war for the benefit of the Imperialists'.
BEKKER J; Well, is there any doubt about what it means? It means what it says.
MR. TRENGOVE; What did you mean by that that you would never take part in any war for the benefit of a country like South Africa which you regard as an Impe- rialist country?— What do you mean by for the benefit of
South Africa?
Well, you regard South Africa as an Imperialist country, don't you?— I do.
Would you ever take part in any war for the bene- fit of this country?— I did not take part in the last war.
Would you? I'm just asking you?— I did not, and
I wouldn't.
Now, Mr. Resha, I also want to put to you RR.8, this document - Resolutions adopted at the A.N.C.Annual
Conference of 1954; would you just confirm this, after satisfying yourself?— That is so, my lords.
Mr. Resha, you knew what the situation was in
Hungary when the Soviet troops entered Hungary . . .
MR. FISCHER; With respect, my lord, I don't know whether there has been any evidence on when the
Soviet troops entered Hungary.
RUMFFF J; Well, not as a fact but there is 17133 R. RES HA.
reference to it . . . documents and so on . . .
MR. TRENGOVEt Mr. Resha, the African National Con- gress took up a certain attitude towards what they called the situation in Hungary?— That is so, my lords.
And whether in fact it happened or not the African
National Congress itself accepted the situation that
Soviet troops entered Hungary to suppress a revolt in
Hungary?— No, no, my lords, the knowledge that the African tZHm. National Congress had was that the Soviet troops did not enter Hungary; they were in Hungary.
They w ere in Hungary?— Yes.
What were they doing there?— It was as a result of an agreement between the Soviet Government and the
Hungarian Government.
Now that presence of foreign troops in a Sovereign country, is that a cause of war, or a potential cause of war; do you regard it as such?— It depends, my lords, on the design and the intention of the forces there.
Well, in Hungary did you accept that as a potential source of war, the presence of Soviet troops in that
Sovereign country?— It could not be so because there was an agreement between the two governments.
Because there was an agreement?— Yes.
And yet you regard the presence of American troops in Japan to-day, by virtue of an agreement, as a cause of war?— As a result of thiss that the Japanese people did not want the forces there, they were opposed to the forces being there, and they were there as a result of having conquered.
Now, the Hungarian people revolted and they were engaged in a conflict with the Soviet troops?— The 17134 R. RESHA
Hungarian Government used the Soviet troops against the
people.
Against the people?— Yes.
Do you justify that action?— Not at all.
Did you ever condemn it?— I did.
And your organisation?— My organisation did not
have sufficient facts to condemn it, but it regarded it as
unfortunate that such a thing should take place, irrespec-
tive of who was right and who was wrong.
Did they ev^r get the proper facts?— I think
they did, my lords, - later.
Did they then condemn it?— No.
Why not?— Because they hadn't the proper facts
when this thing took place.
And in the light of the proper facts, did they
feel that the Soviet action there was justified?— No,no,
they attacked the Hungarian government which brought about
that situation,.
Did they attack the Soviet troops for killing
people there?-- ^.rc never happy about the killing of
people, even if it is done by the Soviet troops.
Did you condemn that action of the Soviet troops
?— Of course we did.
When did it publish a statement condemning the
action of the Soviet troops?— I don't keep dates of
statements published. .
You know such a statement wasnever published,
Mr. Resha?— By you, because you are the publisher, yes...
Mr. Resha, you had in your possession a document
RR.32, 'Situation in Hungary' - it's the same as document
B.261^my lords, which was read in at page 1353 of the record. 17135 R.RESHA
i Where did you get that document, Mr. Resha, do you know?—
I cannot remember now, my lords.
You didn't get it from the South African Society for Peace and Friendship with the Soviet Union perhaps?—
It's possible, my lords.
You were closely connected with that Society?—
I was never closely connected with that society at all, my lords .
Did you ever speak from the platform as one of the speakers at their meetings?— I did, more than once.
More than once?— Yes.
And who asked you to do so?— The officials of that organisation.
Who were they?— The Rev. Thompson was one of the officials, my lords.
And who else?— I think Mr. Hymie Barsal was one of the officials.
Was Hymie Barsal known as a member, an ex-member of the Communist Party?— I don't know0
Did this society from time to time distribute bulletins and other matter at A.N.C. meetings?— I think so . .
It's own bulletins and publications from over- seas countries?— I think so, my lordsc
Was that done with the permission of the African
Hational Congress?— I don't think the African National
Congress ever opposed that.
Now that particular document, 'Situation in
Hungary', I take it you read this document at the time.
Can you remember whether you read it at the time or whe- ther you didn't?— I remember reading this document. 17136 R .RES Hi.
And do you remember whether you accepted that as 1 an explanation of the situation in Hungary?— I cannot remember now, because there were a lot of documents at that stage.
Mr. Resha, this document justifies the actions of the Soviet troops in Hungary? it sets out why. Did you accept yourself that Soviet action was justified?— I have no independent knowledge of the situation in Hungary.
Yes , but on what you read - - you read the view of the Capitalist-Imperialist Press; then you read the view, the other version; did you yourself arrive at any 10 decision as to how you felt about the situation?— I've said, my lords, that I was never happy about the situation in Hungary, regardless of the explanations given.
Mr. Resha, you also had in your possession a number of other documents emanating from the South Afri- 15 can Society for Peace and Friendship with the Societ
Union, RR.22 and RR.4, RR»23, RR.48, RR.49. You got those documents from the S.A.Society for Peace and Friendship with the Soviet Union, didn't you?— The documents appear
20 to have emanated from the S.A. Society for Peace and Friend- ship with the Soviet Union; whether I got them from that
Society I'm not sure now.
You don't know where you got them from, is that the position?— I cannot remember now.
Yes, but where else could you have got them from?— I could have got them from the Congress offices;
I could have got them from a man in the street.
I see; you don't know. Mr. Resha, then you also had in your possession RR.25 and RR27. These docu- ments appear to have emanated from the World Federation 17137 R* EESHA
of Democratic Youth and World Federation - Womens Interna-
tional Democratic Federation?— That is so, my lords.
Did you get those documents from these overseas or-
ganisations?— These documents used to be sent to our
offices from these overseas organisations.
Is that the A„No0, offices?— That is so,my lords.
Then, Mr. Resha, you also had a document RR.83,
'Viewpoints and Perspectives', a publication of the Johan-
nesburg Discussion Club; where did you get that, Mr.Resha
?-— I cannot remember now.
Did you know of the Johannesburg Discussion Club?—
No, my lords.
Now, I'll try and refresh your memory. You see at
that Discussion Club certain people spoke; I think the name of L. Bernstein is mentioned; I think Ruth Pirst is mentioned . . .
RUMPFPJ; Where is'that mentioned?
MR. TRSNGOVE; In the document, my lord. A discus-
sion by Eve Wyriberg. Do you know Eve?— I do,my lords.
Do you know M. Harmel, Michael Harmel?— I do, my
lords.
Do those names assist you in any way to refresh your memory as to where you could have got this document
?— Not at all, my lords.
You don't know where this comes from at all? You have no idea?— I don't understand your question.
You've got no idea how this came into your posses- sion?— No, I have no idea, my lords.
This RR.3, 'The U.S.S.R. 100 Questions Answered'
- do you know where you got this booklet from?— I cannot remember now but I think I bought it. 17138 R. RESHA
You "bought it. Did you ever read it?— I think 1
I did read through it,
Mr. Resha, the Peace Council issued two documents
A.248 and A.249> 'The Peace Movement in the Congress of
the People' and 'Problems of Organisation'; these were
found in A.N.C. offices. You knew of these two documents 5
published by the Peace Council, didn't you?— I think I
did, my lords.
How I want to put it to you, Mr. Resha, that your
movement, the African National Congress, and you, too, in
your attitude towards world affairs - you slavishly fol- 10
lowed the line dictated to the rest of the world by the
Soviet Union?— That is absolutely incorrect, and unfounded.
And the source of your information as to what
the correct line would be were these world front organisa-
tions and the S.A, Peace Council?— My lords, what is
meant by world front organisations? I don't know what
is meant by world front organisations.
The World Federation of Democratic Youth, the
Womens International Democratic Federation, the World
Federation of Tirade Unions and the World Peace Council?—
Did you say World organisation, or world front?
World front organisations?— I don't understand
what that means.
I see. I gave you the names of the organisations
Mr. Resha?— Not at all. The African National Congress, 25
my lords, is an organisation consisting of intelligent
and matured politicians who are able at a given time to
give their own analysis of any situation, and I think
the leaders of the African National Congress ,particularly 50
i 17139 R. RES HA
Chief Luthuli is head and shoulders above some of the poli- ticians in this country, and to say that we were being dictated to by anybody is an insult to my organisation.
Mr. Resha, just before stepping off this topic,
I just want to refer you to document A.50 again, Resolu- tion Ho.6. Have you got that resolution?— Yes.
How, this resolution says, 'The Conference iden- tifies itself with the struggles of the Colonial peoples in their fight to throw off foreign domination and en- slavement', and expresses its solidarity with the people of Kenya, Indo-China, Horth Korea, Malaya and British
Guana.' Why do you distinguish between Horth Korea and South Korea? Why do you express your s olidarity with the people of Horth Korea and not with the people of South Korea?— Because, my lords, the Horth Koreans believe in the unity of the Korean people, that Horth and South Korea should be one country, belonging to the same people.
Is that why you express solidarity with Horth
Korea in its struggle a gainst South Korea?— That is so, because South Korea was being assisted by outside coun- tries .
Which outside countries?— The United States for instance, and during thewar I think about sixteen other countries, including South Africa.
They were being assisted by the United Hations
?— That is so.
And were the United Hations there to pursue a policy of war, or to bring peace?— It's a queer way of bringing peace by killing people.
BEKKER Js You stated the North Koreans pre- 17140 R.' RESHA
ferred unity amongst the people; what was the belief as
regards the attitude of the South Koreans?— The South,
my lord, did not believe in the unity of the people of
Korea, and had the assistance of other countries. There
was a war in Korea in which the South Koreans were assisted
by other countries.
What was the view? Did the South Koreans not
favour unity amongst the people, that is South and Forth
combining?— That is so, my lord.
Why was that?— I don't know, my lord, but they
didn't favour it.
Yes.
MR. TRENGOVE; Mr. Resha , I want to put a few
other A.N.C. documents to you. A.17 is a 'Lodestar' and
it contains a resume of the Conference of the African Na-
tional Congress Youth League on the 29th May, 1955, at
Sophiatown. Just have a look at that document . . .
KENNEDY Jg What date?
MR. TRENG07B; My lord, it's an undated 'Lode-
star'; it contains a report of a conference in May, 1955.
Are you satisfied that this is a correct report, Mr.Resha
of that conference?™ I've not read the reports my lords.
Well, were you the chairman at that Conference
- did you open the conference?— I did, my lords.
And was Moretsele, Provincial President, call-
ed upon to speak?— That is so.
And this document also contains resolutions
adopted at this conference; and was Patine at that time
secretary of the A.N.C.Y.L. in the Transvaal? Y.Patine
?— I think so, my lords.
Mr, Resha, I referred you the other day to 17141 E. EESHA
these two documents, ER.28 and EE.60 found in .your pos-
session, and dealing with the A.N.C. Conference in the
Transvaal. Now, EE.60, is the Agenda; E.E.28 is Moret-
sele's Address. You r emember I gave you those two docu-
ments the other day?—- I do, my lords.
Now if you look at EE.28, the first document,
there's some manuscript writing on that; is that your writing?— EE. 60?
Yes, I'm sorryj you see there are a number of
names there?— That is so.
Now you see there are a number of names bracket-
ted with a bracket W.A?— Yes.
What names are those?— Mathole, Ngoyi, Eesha,
Ngwendu, Nkadimeng, Motsabi.
Now they are bracketed W.A; would that refer
to Western Areas?— That is so.
What does that note mean there?— If I remember well, my lords, at that stage two committees were created
by the Transvaal , so that the names mentioned were the
people who were going to be on the Western Areas Committee,
and then you have another set of names below, marked
C.O.P. aid those were supposed to be on the C.0.P.Committee.
What names were those?—Motsolede, Moretsele,
Magothe, Matsike, P. Morris.
Then at the bottom you have a number of other
names; do you remember what those were? Are they the
new committee?— Yes, I think that was during the elec-
tion time, because next to the names are figures which would be the numbers of delegates who voted for these
people.
I see. Now, Mr. Eesha, you were present at 17142 R. RESHA
the Transvaal Conference of the A.N.C. in October,1955 » were you not?— That is so.
And the Presidential Address t^re, was that also delivered by Moretsele?— That would be so,my lords.
And were you present at the Confeie nee in 1956 at lady Selborne in Pretoria?— That is so.
Just look at this document, B.259. You have the programme there, Mr. Resha?— That is so.
And it was opened by Dr. H.M. Moosa? The offi- cial opening under the first heading?— That is so, my lords.
What was Dr. Moosa at that stage?— I think at this stage Dr. Moosa was the Joint Secretary of the South
African Indian Congress.
(COURT ADT OUR IE DPOR 15 MINUTES )
ON THE COURT RESUMING;
MR. TRENGOVEl Mr. Resha, I was just dealing with this document B0259 of the Conference on the 3rd and 4th November, 1956, a; Lady Selborne?— Yes,
Now, at page 2 you will see the Presidential
Address delivered by Moretsele - you see his signature the re, E.Po Moretsele, President of the Transvaal African
National Congress, Transvaal. He delivered the Presiden- tial Address at that meeting, not so?— That is so.
Then at page 8 you'll see, as part of that document 'New World Unfolds'?— Yes.
Now that was also distributed at that confer- ence, was it not? Together with the Executive Report 17143 R. RESHA
and the Report of the National Consultative Committee on
the struggle against Passes?— That is so, my lords.
Now, Mr. Resha, in November, 1955, the African
National Congress National Executive met again at Grout-
ville, and the object of that meeting was to settle the
report to the National Conference in December of that year,
was it not?— That is so, my lords.
Now, Mr, Resha, you had in your possession a
document RR.ll, which is a Delegates Report on the Confer-
ence of the People held at Kliptown on the 26th - the
25th and 26th June?— That is so, my lords.
And that Report sets out what happened at this
Congress of the People on those dates?— This appears to
be a Delegates Report, my lords,
Yes; and it was to be used by delegates to re-
port back to their meetings, not so?— This, my lords,
appears to be a report about Sophiatown, in connection with
the Congress of the People.
And you were there, and I put it to you, it
correctly sets forth what happened at that Congress of
the People?— That may be so,
Now, Mr. Resha, the Preedom Charter went fur-
ther than the Africans' Claims which you also used as
the basis for your lectures, you say?— In what way?
In the way that it gave a clearer picture of what the Congress really understood Preedom in this coun-
try to be, both politically and economically?— You mean
it elucidated those points?
Yes, there were certain matters which Africans
Claims left in the air, as it were; the question of the
lsnd, and the economic side of the liberatory struggle?— FT'"
17144 R,. RESHA
Subject to correction, my lords, I think the Africans 1
Claims dealt with the aims....
Yes, well, I don't think I can put it better
than it's put in the 1956 Report of the African National
Congress - a document which was handed in, AJL.71(a),
where it says s 'It is true that in 1945 it, the African 5
National Congress, published the Africans Claims and de-
manded equality among all sections of the population
based upon the existing economic and political set-up
in the country. It did not deal with the question of
exactly in what manner equality should be achieved under 10
the system of government which vested 87$ of the land
to a white minority of 2,000,000 and which forces 10,000,000
non-Europeans to share the remaining 13$. It left un-
answered the vital question of how it is possible to
achieve equality between black and white without for 15
example changing the character of the ownership of the
gold mining industry. The Charter goes much further
than the African Claims and declares that the people
shall govern;all national groups shall have equal rights;
the people shall share in the country's wealth, that 20
the land shall be shared amongst those who work it, and
that all shall be equal before the Law and enjoy equal
human rights. Ror the first time in the history of the
African National Congressour aims and objects have been
set out in the clearest and most unambiguous terms." 25
Now that, Mr, Resha, that comparison between the Freedom
Charter and Africans Claims, that is how the African
National Congress viewed the position, did it not?—
That is so, my lords.
Now, Mr. Resha, in the 1955 Report, Mr.Luthuli 50
k 1
17145 R. RE'S HA
in his Presidential Address says that the whole citadel of white supremacy and domination must be attacked-. Now,
I want t o put it to you that the Citadel of white supremacy and domination rested upon the political supremacy, and the economic supremacy of the white man in this country?—
That is so.
And the political supremacy rested on the vote and the economic supremacy rested on the major share that the white people had in the land, in the mineral wealth, and in commerce and industry in this country?— That is so. 10 And in order to a chieve the freedom which the
Freedom Charter envisaged, that would have to be broken down, white supremacy arising out of this political and economical strength?— What the Freedom Charter envisaged, my lords, is that the people of South Africa should be 15 equal; they should participate equally in all the coun- cils of the State. There should be no white supremacy, nor, indeed, black supremacy.
Leave aside that supremacy for the moment, Mr.
Resha, in order to break dcwn this white domination and 20 white supremacy, you had to deal drastically with the franchise, with the land, with the mineral wealth, and with commerce and industiy?— I don't understand what you mean by drastically. You mean if the African people get the franchise - - is that dealing with it drastically? 25 As compared to the present position?— Oh, we are opposed to the present position; that we will fight to the bitterest end.
Mr. Resha, Mr. Luthuli, you see, in his
Presidential Address to the 1955 Conference on page 6, 30 LLM.81, says 'The significance to break down the present 17146 R.EESHA
day Congress activities ' He says at the top of page 7; "It is under numerous bitter experiaaces and disappointments of white view that the Africans under the leadership of the African National Congress came to realise, after their further betrayal in 1936, that the only correct course to take was no longer^ merely to struggle for the amelioration of economic and social disabilities here and there, under which they suffered, but to attack the whole citadel of white supremacy and domination protected by a network of discriminatory laws designed to keep the African people and the non-whites in a general state of perpetual servitude." You agree with that statement, I take it?— I do, my lords.
As far as the white people are concerned, the attacking of the white citadel of domination and supre- macy, meant that you envisaged a situation where the whites would no longer by themselves have the political supremacy consisting of the franchise. That would have to be enjoyed by everybody?— We wanted to see that the franchise was enjoyed by everybody, black and white.
Yes; and the white citadel of domination had to be further attacked in that there hadto be a re dis- tribution of land?— That is so.
And the mineral wealth had to be distributed?—
Among the people of South Africa, black and white.
Not only in the hands of the few white people
?— That is so.
And similarly, monopoly industry?— That is so.
Therefore apart from whether it's right or wrong the white people on their part would have to consent 17147 R. EES HA
to their present position of supremacy falling away?—
That is so.
They would have to be prepared to do all these
things until this freedom that you sought could be brought
about?— That is so.
Now, Mr Luthuli ma.de the point that white supre-
macy protected itself by a vast network of laws?—- That
is so.
White supremacy viewed the position and also
sought to maintain its position by means of force?— Is
that what Chief Luthuli says there?
Ho, that's what I am putting to you; they use
the army, the police force, to maintain their position of
supremacy and domination, as you saw it ?— The Government.
That is so.
The white people in this country?— Hot all the
white people in this country.
Hot all the white people?— Certainly not.
Those that had in this country?— Those who believed
in white supremacy.
Yes...?— And protected by force of arms.
Yes. And for the Freedom Charter to be imple-
mented the whites would have to be brought to a position
of accepting their own downfall as the dominant and supreme
section of the population?— What is their downfall?
They would have to forego the position they hold
as to land, monopoly in industry, mineral wealth and
the franchise?— They forego nothing. They share with the
people of South Africa, black and white, the mineral wealth of this country. They rule this country together
with the African people. 17148 R, RESHA
You say that nobody would forego anything?— The purpose is that we should all share,
Now the Defiance Canpaign, and your Western Areas
Campaign, you saw how white supremacy reacted to those campaigns?— Yes.
And you also propagated the view that white supre- macy would never voluntarily forego its dominant position
?— Hence those campaigns•
Yes, hence those campaigns. And you also propa- gated the view that to maintain that position the whites would resort to any form of violence?— We did not propa- gate that. That waswhat the Government was doing.
You accepted that position and placed it "before your people?— As it was, they saw it. These things hap- pened to the African people who live in this country,
Mr. Resha, I want to put it to you - your experience in the Defiance Campaign and the way the Government re- acted, - when all you wanted was for the Government not to remove the people from the Western Areas - you knew and accepted the position that if you were struggling for something much greater, the land, the mineral wealth, the franchise to be enjoyed by everybody, that before foregoing its position the Government would hit back violently and with force?— That is so.
And you, notwithstanding that, accepted the position that your masses had to be educated, that uncon- stitutional and extra-parliamentary action in the form set out in the Programme of Action had to be undertaken, to force the Government to forego its position in this country?— To compel the Government to change its policy and have a policy where everybody would be free and equal 1
17149 R. RESHA
in this country.
Even though you knew that that might mean blood-
shed throughout the country?— As far as we are concerned
we never wanted bloodshed and we have done everything to
avoid bloodsheds 5 Mr. Resha, I just want to put it to you that
you were deliberately striving for a position v/here there
would be a bloody conflict between the Government, trying
to maintain its position, and the masses trying to get
the demands of the Freedom Charter?— Your wishes have 10 nothing to do with the policy of the African National
Congress; the policy of the African National Congress
is clear in all the documents you have been going through;
you haven't found one document to support your school of
thought, however you might wish it. What we want to bring 15 about in this country is happiness for everybody, and we
have chosen methods of struggle which have indicated clear-
ly what our aims were, and we have succeeded in those me-
thods hitherto- That is why to-day you have political
organisations in this country which did not exist before 20 the Defiance Campaign, like the Congress of Democrats,
like the South African Liberal Party, like the Progressive
Party. Political organisations which believe that in
order to make it possible for all to live happily in this
country, the policy should be changed, and that we should 25 all share. These political organisations consisting of
politicians and thinking men - all of them, including the Nationalist Government - have agreed that our policy
is one of non-violence. We have never been accused in
this country - and I think the man has still to be born - 30 1
17150 R. RESHA
who wants bloodshed in this country.
Mr. Resha, your statement that numerous white political groups have arisen as aresult of your campaigns,
I want to put it to you that the main reason for these white political groups to have arisen is because the
Communist Party was banned in 1950 and its former mem- bers had to find a new political home, or homes?— My lords, I don't know if Mr. Dadoo (?) was a member of the
Communist Party, I do not know if Mr. Alan Paton was a member of the former Communist Party, and in fact it is 10 incorrect to s ay that the Congress of Democrats is there because the Communist Party was banned. These state- ments are most unfounded. One wonders where you get them from.
Mr. Resha, apart from your organisation, you 15 personally worked closely on the Rand with the other Con- gress organisations in the liberatory struggle; the
South African Indian Congress, the S.A. Congress of Demo- crats, the S.A. Congressof Trade Unions, the Federation of South African Women - - is that correct?— That is so. 20 And the S.A. Indian Congress even regarded you as a champion of right and justice?— I suppose they are entitled to an opinion, are they not?
Now, Mr, Resha, there was one meeting that I put to you on the last occasion, that was the meeting of 25 the 28th August, 1955 you said you couldn't under- stand a certain sentence in the record. Now, my lords, this is to be found in Vol.52 at page 10428, and your speech, Mr. Resha, is to be found on page 10432, at line
6. Now, will you turn to the top of page 10434, the 30 sentence starts at the bottom of page 10433 I think - - 1
17151 R. RESHA
•There are more pangos in Kenya than ' and then there is a note on the record (Inaudible). How, you were in
Court when that evidence was given, Mr. Resha, and I want to suggest to you that what the witness said there, in- audible on the record, was that sthere are pangos in
Kenya than cigarettes you are smoking1. That would make sense, would it not?— It still wouldn't make sense to me.
Do you deny that you ever used words to that ef- fect? Referring to the number of pangos in Kenya?— I do not remember using these words at all.
You don't remember. Then the last sentence of that paragraph at line 6, 'One day there will be few purges in this country'. I want to put it to you that what the witness said in Court was that you are alleged to have said at this meeting that 'One day there will be
few traitors in this country'. Could you have said that?— I don't remember saying thatf nor do I see any reason for saying there will be few traitors; as if I knew how many there are to-day*,
And just at the top of the page, after the 20 sentence which is inaudible? there is a sentence 'Don't think that the A-N.C, will fold its arms...... ' I wait to suggest to you that what the witness said here was
'Don't think that the A.H.C, will fold its arms if attack- ed by other men'. Could you have used words like that?— 25 Ho.
Mr. Resha, there was evidence here of a meeting of the 5th December, 1954, at Pietermaritzburg, a Congress of the People meeting, reported at page 8017 of the re-
cord. That would be Volume 41, my lords. The speaker 30 1
17152 B. EESHA /
was announced as Resha who spoke at that Conference. 1
Do you know that he spoke at a Congress of the People
meeting in Pietermaritzburg in 1954?— I do.
Early in December of 1954?— That is so.
And would this he look at page 8017 - it
was in the Eegent Cinema, Longmarket Street; was that 5
where you addressed your meeting?— I don't know the
name of the hall; it's possible.
You are satisfied that this is the meeting that
you addressed?— I addressed a meeting in Pietermaritzburg
my lords. 10
How many times did you address a Congress of the
People meeting there?— Once.
Once only?— Yes.
You remember the evidence was of a tape record-
ing which was played in Court?— I remember that,
You don't deny that you were the person who
spoke there?— I dont, my lords,
Mr. Eeshar there was another meeting of which
evidence was given on the 28th August, 1955. It's re-
ported in Vole42, It was an Evaton Peoples Transport
Meeting at EvatonP and the evidence ttere was that a
speaker by the name of Resha, Mr. Robert Resha was
ihtroduced as the speaker and then he spoke. How, would
that be you?— That is so, my lords. 25 And then Mre Resha, there was one other meet-
ing on the 12th June, 1955, a meeting of the National
Action Council of the Congressof the People in Durban,
reported in a number of volumes, the first report being
t m in Vol.41 at page 8004. The evidence was that you also 30 spoke at that meeting. You remember that?— I do. 17153 R. RESHA
Mr. Resha, in Evaton who were the most import-
ant members of the African National Congress that were
conducting that campaign, the Bus Boycott campaign?— Mr,
Molife, my lords•
Would that be the accused J„ Molife?— That is
so, my lords. Mr. Mate, M . .
Is that V. Make?— That is so, my lords.
Who was an accused at the Preparatoiy ?— That
is so.
Yes?— Mr. J. Kumalo.
He was also an accused at the Preparatory?—
That is so.
Is that Jerry Kumalo?— I think Joseph,
J.M, Kumalo?— That is so. Those were the pro- minent members.
As far as their campaign was concerned, against
the Bus Boycott, it had the full support of the African
National Congress?— That is so.
And the African National Congress regarded that
campaign as part of the struggle for liberation?— We re-
garded that as a legitimate struggle of the people fight-
ing against the increased fares.
Also thatstruggle was not one merely against the increase in fares, but it was part and parcel of the whole liberatory struggle which the Africans were waging
?— The struggle in Evaton, my lords, was no more than a
struggle against the increased fares.
I want to put it to you that the speeches made there disclosed the contrary; the African National
Congress regarded that struggle as much more than merely
a struggle against ihcreased bus fares?— There is not a 17154 R. RESHA
single Congress leader who looked at the s truggle against the increase of fares as being a liberatory struggle, and meaning more than that.
As being part of the struggle for liberation?—
It is the every day work of the African people to struggle for better conditions.
Mr. Resha, it was also customary for your orga- nisation to send fraternal greetings to other Congress or- ganisations?— That is so, my lords.
And the African National Congress Youth League and the Transvaal Indian Youth Congress used to send fra- ternal greetings to each other?— That is so.
Now, do you remember the Transvaal Indian Youth
Congress in 1954?— I have no independent recolle ction of it, my lords.
I want to hand you a document, you can just look at it and try and refresh your memory as to whether this might be the fraternal greeting that you sent?— The document, my lords, is headeds 'Fraternal Greeting to the Annual Meeting of the Transvaal Indian Youth Congress
13th June, 1954? from the A*N„C.Youth League, Transvaal'.
I do not remember this.
Mr- Resha, you don't remember if J. Molife, the accused Molife, was your delegate to that Conference to present that fraternal greeting?— No, my lords, by the 13th June, 1954, I wasno longer in the Transvaal
Executive.
So you don't know?— I do not know, my lords.
Mr. Resha, there is a 'Fighting Talk', G.1131, of February, 1954, and at page 10 there is an article
"Robert Resha writes on the A.N.C. Conference at Queens- 17155 R. RESHA
town". That would be an article that you contributed to
the 'Fighting Talk', would it?— That would be so.
On the Queenstcwn Annual Conference in 1953?
That would be so,
You were there and you participated in the activi-
ties of that conference?— That is so.
And, Mr. Resha, I have a document here, C. 976,
it's a Report of the Trans yaal Consultative Committee
presented to the Joint Executive of the Congresses, and at
page 3 there is a signature. Would you identify that sig-
nature as being yours if it is?— The signature is mine,
my lords.
There are two other documents, Mr. Resha ?—
And this, my lords, is the Report of the National Consul-
tative Committee presented to the Joint Executives of the
African National Congress and other organisations, not to
the Transvaal.
Yes, I didn't suggest it was, There are two
other documents, ALGC5 and AELP31. Would you just identify
the signatures on these two documents?— Both signatures
are mine, my lordse
Now, Mr. Resha, I just want to ask you one or two
questions about the position of some of the accused and co-
conspirators. I don't know if I am correct, but you men-
tioned, I think, that Joseph Molife was on the Secretariat
of the - - on the National Executive — I'm sorry, Mr.
Resha, on the Executive of the Transvaal African National
Congress Youth League?— It's possible; that hewas on the
Secretariat, but I have no knowledge,
No, just on the Executive?— He was a member of
the Executive. 17156 R. EES HA
During the period of the Indictment?— Well, I remember 1953 and 1954.
Do you know if he held any other position in the
African National Congress?— I cannot remember, my lords.
The accused Nkadimeng, that's accused No,10; but the accused Nkadimeng, No.15, Mr. Resha , he was a member of the Resist Apartheid Committee, was he not?—
It's possible, my lords.
You don't know?— No, I have no knowledge.
He was also an administrative official of the
African National Congress, and you used to send him about organising for the African National Congress?— No; all Congress members, my lords, did organisational work, but he was the secretary only for a month, early in 1955.
Secretary of the Transvaal?— That is so.
Do you know if he was also secretary of the
South African Congress of Trade Unions?— I know he is a keen Trade Unionist but I don't know what position he held in that aganisation*
Now, Mr. Resha, there was a co-conspirator,
B. Hlapane, do you know him?— I do.
No, 5?— Yes.
Do you know what his position in the African
National Congress on the Rand was? — At one time, my lords, I think he was the secretary of the branch, that is the Jabavu Branch of the African National Congress.
During the period of the Indictment?— That is so, my lords*
Do you know if he was a member of the Regional
Committee of the Congress of the People?— That is pos- sible, I have no knowledge * 17157 E. EESHA
Do you know anything else about his positions in the Congress?— Well, later, I think after the period of the Indictment, he became a member of the Transvaal Exe- cutive .
I see. Mr. Resha, J. Kumalo, Jerry Kumalo, do you know him?— I do, my lords.
Was he an active Congress worker?— He was, my lords*
Was he a Freedom Volunteer during 1954 to 1956$ an A.N.C. Freedom Volunteer?— Not as far as I know.
What do you know about his position in the Con- gress?— I think he was at one time an official of his branch.
What branch was that?— Moroka.
Did he also organise for the Congress of the Peo- ple in June, 1955?— He did, my lords.
As an A.N.C. organiser?— No, my lords, not as an
A.N.C. organiser; he organised as a member of Congress.
I see. P. Madiba, co-conspirator No.12?— I do know him, my lords.
What was his position in Congress during the period of the Indictment?— He was in the Newclare branch, on the Executive.
A. Mahlangu, do you know him?— I do,my lords.
Co-conspirator No.13. What was his position in
Congress?— I know he was an a ctive Congressite, but I don't know what position he held in his branch.
Do you know if he was an executive member of the
Congress of Trade Unions9— That is possible, I have no knowledge.
You don't know?— No. 17158 R. RESHA
Now, there was co-conspirator J. Makwe, No»15, do you know him?— Yes, I do.
What washis position in Congress?— I don't know what position he held in his branch*
You don't know at all?-— No.
Was he an active Congressite?— He was active.
And P. Malupe, con-conspirator No.17?— I know him.
Was he on the executive of any branch, do you know
?— I think at one time he was a member of the Newclare
Branch executive.
During the period of the Indictment? Some time
during that period?— I think so, my lords.
Do you know whether he held any other position in
the African National Congress?— No, my lords.
Junos Matlou, co-conspirator No.19, . .
MR. PISCHER; I take it, of course, my lords, that my learned friend refers to alleged co-conspirators?
MR. TREN3-0VEs Yes, my lords. J. Matloa , No.19?—
I know him.
He was a prominent member of the Sophiatown branch
?— That is so,
And he was Chief Volunteer for Sophiatown?— At
one time he was,
During the period 1955 to 1956?— I don't know whether it was 1954- or 1955 , my lords - somewhere about
then.
And was he secretary of the Johannesburg Regional
Committee of the Congress of the People?— I don't know what position he held there.
Was he on the executive of the Sophiatown Branch
?— That is so. 17159 R. RESHA
0. Matsabe, No.23, do you know him?— I do.
He was a member of the Transvaal Secretariat of the African National Congress in 1956?— I don't know if he was in the Secretariat, but he was a member of the
Executive.
On the Provincial Executive?— That is so.
During this period 1955 to 1956?— That is so.
And was he also on the Committee of the Congress of the People in the Transvaal?— I think he was, my lords.
Do you know S.M. Nate?— I do, ny lords.
What was his position in the Congress?— I know him as a member of the Transvaal Indian Congress; I don't know what position he held.
At Evaton?— Yes.
A.E. Pat el, do you know him?— I do, my lords.
Do you know that he was secretary of the T.I.C. in the Transvaal from 1954 to 1956?— I think so, my lords.
He was joint secretary of the South African
Indian Congress?— Not as far as I know.
He was on the National Action Council of the
Congress of the People?— That is so, my lords.
And he was also Joint Secretary of that?— Not as far as I know.
You don't know?— No.
And he was a member of the Transvaal Action
Council of the Congress of the People?— That is so.
Do you know Dr. Press?— I do, my lords.
No. 27. He was a prominent member of the
South African Congress of Democrats, was he not?— That is so, my lords. Collection: 1956 Treason Trial Collection number: AD1812
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