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Official Report of This Meeting Health and Sport Committee Tuesday 15 September 2020 Session 5 © Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Information on the Scottish Parliament’s copyright policy can be found on the website - www.parliament.scot or by contacting Public Information on 0131 348 5000 Tuesday 15 September 2020 CONTENTS Col. SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION............................................................................................................................... 1 Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel) (Scotland) Amendment (No 11) Regulations 2020 (SSI 2020/263) ............................................................................................................. 1 Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel) (Scotland) Amendment (No 12) Regulations 2020 (SSI 2020/271) ............................................................................................................ 1 National Health Service (Free Prescriptions and Charges for Drugs and Appliances) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2020 (SSI 2020/258) ......................................................................................... 5 PRE-BUDGET SCRUTINY 2021-22 ...................................................................................................................... 6 HEALTH AND SPORT COMMITTEE 23rd Meeting 2020, Session 5 CONVENER *Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) DEPUTY CONVENER *Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) COMMITTEE MEMBERS *George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) *Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) *David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) *David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) *Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) *Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) *attended THE FOLLOWING ALSO PARTICIPATED: Calum Campbell (NHS Lothian) Susan Goldsmith (NHS Lothian) Jane Grant (NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde) Mark White (NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde) Humza Yousaf (Cabinet Secretary for Justice) CLERK TO THE COMMITTEE David Cullum LOCATION Virtual Meeting 1 15 SEPTEMBER 2020 2 you provide an update on the proposition to test Scottish Parliament passengers on arrival, particularly at airports? That is an issue that the committee has asked Health and Sport Committee about previously. What developments and discussions have there been since we last Tuesday 15 September 2020 discussed the matter? The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza [The Convener opened the meeting at 09:45] Yousaf): Good morning, convener. I hope that you and the members of the committee are keeping Subordinate Legislation well. Airport testing was again discussed in our four- Health Protection (Coronavirus) nations call last week. As you would imagine, I will (International Travel) (Scotland) have another such call later this week. The Amendment (No 11) Regulations 2020 Scottish Government remains concerned that the (SSI 2020/263) airport testing regimes that are proposed at this stage would not be as robust as a 14-day isolation or quarantine measure. Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel) (Scotland) It has been proposed that we look at testing on Amendment (No 12) Regulations 2020 arrival and again on around day 8 of someone’s (SSI 2020/271) isolation. The concern is that someone testing negative on arrival would be given false The Convener (Lewis Macdonald): Good reassurance. However, getting those individuals to morning, and welcome to the 23rd meeting in quarantine for at least another eight to 10 days 2020 of the Health and Sport Committee. We have would be extremely challenging. We know how received apologies from Alex Cole-Hamilton. people behave—there is some data on people’s behaviours if they test negative. The first agenda item is consideration of two affirmative instruments. As in previous weeks, the The systems that have been proposed so far regulations are laid under section 94(1), which is are not as effective as the requirement to self- on international travel, of the Public Health etc isolate for 14 days, but that does not mean that we (Scotland) Act 2008. The provisions of the act are not continuing to look at proposals from the state that such regulations are subject to the airports. I suspect that that will be another topic of affirmative procedure. However, that procedure conversation on our four-nations call. will not apply if the Scottish ministers consider that the regulations need to be made and brought into Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP): Are force urgently. In that case, they must be laid there particular reasons for divergence in the four- before the Scottish Parliament and will cease to nations approach or specific circumstances in have effect on the expiry of the period of 28 days which that would be required? For instance, would beginning with the date on which the regulations Scotland exempt some countries when Wales were made, unless the regulations have been would not? approved by a resolution of the Parliament before Humza Yousaf: Ultimately, the reasons would the expiry of that period. It is for the Health and pertain to individual country data. The regulations Sport Committee to consider the instruments and that we are discussing this week are a good to report to Parliament accordingly. example of that. Scotland removed Greece from Today, we have an evidence session with the its exempt country list unilaterally. At that point, Cabinet Secretary for Justice and officials on the the other nations had not removed Greece or any instruments. Once we have asked all our of the Greek islands, but they have now removed questions, I will propose that we have a single some of the islands from their lists. formal debate on the two motions. When the regulations came into force, we took I welcome to the committee Humza Yousaf, the that decision because Public Health Scotland Cabinet Secretary for Justice. He is accompanied data, rather than the joint biosecurity centre data from the Scottish Government by Rachel or the Public Health England risk assessment, Sunderland, who is a deputy director in the showed a worrying level of imported cases: the population and migration division; Jamie number of positive cases that were linked to travel MacDougall, who is a deputy director in the test from Greece was the second highest, just behind and protect portfolio; and Anita Popplestone, who Spain. The week after those regulations came into is the head of police complaints and scrutiny. force, Greece overtook Spain, and, in the numbers that I have in front of me, Greece continues to be With the cabinet secretary’s agreement, we will the country that gives us the most concern on the ask questions on both instruments together. Will importation of cases. 3 15 SEPTEMBER 2020 4 Alignment is important, and when we can do about the politics or other matters that might often that we will—we tend to align in the majority of be part of our considerations. Decisions are made cases. Equally, there is an understanding on the purely on public health grounds. four-nations calls that each country will make It would be wrong to suggest that some decisions that are based on the interests of its own Governments are not upset—[Inaudible.] We have country, population and—[Inaudible.] the consular corps here, in Edinburgh, and in The Convener: Thank you. I think that Emma Scotland more widely, and we are always happy to Harper has the answers that she wanted. I will engage and explain the reasons for certain move on to Brian Whittle. decisions. Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con): Can The Convener: We move to items 2 and 3, you clarify whether the Scottish Government is which are the formal debates on the affirmative receiving different advice, or whether it has set instruments on which we have just taken different criteria, as to which countries to exempt? evidence. Are members content to have a single debate that covers both instruments? I see that Humza Yousaf: I may have misheard the last you are. Thank you. In the formal debate, part of Brian Whittle’s question, but I think that I members have the opportunity to contribute to the have the gist of it. debate but not to ask further questions. As I said to Emma Harper, some data is shared I ask the minister to open the debate and to between the four nations, including the joint move motions S5M-22576 and S5M-22619. biosecurity centre data and the Public Health England country assessment. In addition, each Humza Yousaf: As always, convener, given country looks at its own data individually—I look at that you have a packed agenda, and given that I Public Health Scotland data on the transmission of have answered questions on the instruments, I am the virus coming into the country. A range of data happy to waive my right to speak in the debate. is used, some of which is shared between the four I move, nations and some of which is specific to Scotland or England. That the Health and Sport Committee recommends that the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel) The decision that was taken on Greece is a (Scotland) Amendment (No. 11) Regulations 2020 (SSI demonstration of that. Scotland took the decision 2020/263) be approved. to remove Greece from its exemption list. That the Health and Sport Committee recommends that Following that, Wales removed a number of Greek the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel) islands from its list and the UK and Northern Irish (Scotland) Amendment (No. 12) Regulations 2020 (SSI Governments then decided to do the same, but 2020/271) be approved. some of the islands
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