Tuesday Volume 512 29 June 2010 No. 23

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 29 June 2010

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almost identical to the chances in the rest of Europe. House of Commons Does the Secretary of State therefore believe that a one-year survival indicator is a good idea both for Tuesday 29 June 2010 encouraging early diagnosis and for matching the survival rates of the best in Europe?

The House met at half-past Two o’clock Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. When we set out proposals for an outcomes PRAYERS framework, I hope that he and others will respond, because that is one of the ways in which we can best identify how late detection of cancer is leading to very [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] poor levels of survival to one year. I hope that we can think about that as one of the quality indicators that we shall establish.

Oral Answers to Questions Diana R. Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I welcome the Secretary of State to his new position and wish him well in his role. I understand that he is keeping HEALTH the two-week target for seeing a cancer specialist, but abandoning the work that the Labour Government did on the one-week target for access to diagnostic testing. The Secretary of State was asked— Professor Mike Richards stated in the annual cancer reform strategy that improving GP access to diagnostic Cancer tests is essential to drive for early diagnosis of cancer. Can the Secretary of State spell out some of his current 1. Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): thinking on what the alternative would be if we no What steps he is taking to improve rates of early longer have the one-week target? detection of cancer. [4459] Mr Lansley: Let me make it clear to the hon. Lady The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): and the House that only 40% of those diagnosed with Late detection of cancer is one of several reasons why cancer had actually gone through the two-week wait. our cancer survival rates are below the European average. Establishing a better awareness of symptoms and earlier That is why we will focus on improving those outcomes presentation across the board is, as we have been discussing, and achieving better awareness of the signs and symptoms important to achieve. I am afraid that the hon. Lady is of cancer. These aims will be part of our future cancer wrong: I have not said that we are abandoning any of strategy. the cancer waiting-time targets at the moment, but that we have to be clear about what generally constitutes Lilian Greenwood: Over half the men who receive a quality. For example, seeing a cancer specialist without testing kit under the national bowel cancer screening having had prior diagnosis is often pointless, whereas programme throw it away. What action is the Secretary getting early diagnosis is often a serious indicator of of State taking to improve the take-up of screening, quality. particularly by men, and what provision has he made within the NHS budget for the extra costs of increased NHS Targets take-up? 2. Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): What assessment he Mr Lansley: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that has made of the effects on NHS waiting times of NHS question, and I have had the privilege of twice visiting targets in the last 10 years. [4460] the national bowel cancer screening programme at St Cross hospital in Rugby—it looks after people in parts of the The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon midlands and the north-west—and indeed, I have visited Burns): Targets focused the NHS on bringing down the Preston royal infirmary, which deals with bowel waiting times, but also put process above clinical judgment cancer screening follow-up. As I said in my first reply, and patient choice. Changing the way in which we one of the things we aim to do is to increase awareness manage waiting times will empower both patients and of the signs and symptoms of cancer. It is unfortunate clinicians. NHS targets have dictated clinical priorities that, as a recent study established, only 30% of the and harmed patient care. Focusing on long waits has public had real awareness of what the symptoms of meant less progress on reducing average waits than cancer would be, beyond a lump or a swelling. We have could otherwise have been achieved. very high rates of bowel cancer, so it will be part of our future cancer strategy to increase awareness of those Derek Twigg: I noticed that in his answer the Minister symptoms and to encourage men in particular to follow did not say that any assessments had taken place. How up on them. many representations has he received from clinicians, people working in the NHS and the public demanding Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): The the removal of the 18-week target, for instance? Targeting recent inquiry of the all-party parliamentary cancer is about making people better and getting them seen group into cancer and equalities heard expert evidence more quickly, so is not the real reason for dropping to suggest that if people can survive the first year of targets the fact that the Minister wants to undermine cancer, their chances of surviving for five years are the NHS again? 699 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 700

Mr Burns: I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman, for Andy Burnham: I shall take that as a no, because the whom I have considerable respect, is just plain wrong. Minister did not answer the question; he could not give There have been a number of representations over the that guarantee. He says that we must put people and last seven weeks or so. In addition, as my right hon. patients first, yet at a stroke he has taken power away Friend the Secretary of State and his shadow team went from patients and handed it back to the system, turning round the country over the past five years, they were the clock back to the bad old days of the Tory NHS. Let constantly told by GPs and clinicians from hospital to me quote some comments by Jill Watts, chair of the hospital that politically motivated targets were distorting NHS Partners Network, which represents private providers. clinical decisions and patient care. In the Financial Times on 18 May, she is reported as saying the following about the loss of targets: Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): Does my “Waiting times will go up and if people want a procedure they hon. Friend agree that by far the most important way of have a choice: they can wait or they can look to pay”. improving the service delivered by the NHS is to focus Is that not always the Tory choice on the NHS: wait or on the three key indicators of clinical outcomes, patient pay? experience and value for money? Can he assure the House that the Government will pursue those, particularly Mr Burns: The right hon. Gentleman is not right. We against the background of increasingly scarce resources, have not taken that attitude; we never have taken that in order to deliver the objective we all have: a better-quality attitude. We want to have a system whereby the health NHS? service is not in a straitjacket of targets that disrupt and distort clinical decisions. We want to empower clinicians Mr Burns: I am extremely grateful to my right hon. and GPs to take decisions about who should be treated Friend, who is absolutely right, and I can give him the when according to their clinical judgment. categorical assurances he is seeking, but I would also like to add one more: we need information to empower Andy Burnham: Waffle! patients, because if patients are going to be at the heart of the NHS they must have the information to take the Mr Burns: It is not waffle. The right hon. Gentleman decisions that are important to their health care. is clinging to an outdated philosophy, and he is in denial about the need to change it. Mr Speaker: Order. May I gently ask the Minister to NHS Dentists (Chesterfield) face the House? I am sure that Opposition Members will want to see his face. 3. Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): If he will take steps to increase the number of dentists providing NHS Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): We do, Mr Speaker, services in Chesterfield; and if he will make a statement. very much; we want to see him squirm. [4461] First, let me say that we welcome the Minister back to the Department of Health; he was a Minister in the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health Department 13 years ago. As I have said before, we trust (Anne Milton): I assure the hon. Gentleman that the that he finds the NHS in much better condition than Government have committed to improving access to when he left office. Last week we had an independent NHS dentistry, and the introduction of the new dental verdict on those 13 years. The independent and respected contract, focusing on achieving good dental health and Commonwealth Fund said that the NHS was one of the increasing access to NHS dentistry, will be vital. best health care systems in the world, and, indeed, that it was top on efficiency: a ringing endorsement of Toby Perkins: I thank the hon. Lady for her response. Labour’s stewardship of the national health service. The Stubbing road medical centre is a brand-new building That verdict reflects the huge progress on waiting times in Chesterfield providing doctor services to people who that has been made over those 13 years. So does not the are among the most deprived in Derbyshire. One floor abolition of the 18-week target, which the Minister there was also meant to provide dental services, but in announced last week, put all that progress at risk? Will the last week we have been told that that might not—indeed, he today give us a straight answer to this question: can that it will not—go ahead, although the primary care he guarantee that waiting times will not rise, and that trust is paying the rent on the building and its new suite. patients will still be treated within 18 weeks? Can the hon. Lady assure the people in the Rother ward who have been waiting so long for those services that the guarantee that everyone in Chesterfield will have Mr Burns: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the access to an NHS dentist by March 2011 will remain in kind comments at the beginning of his remarks; things place? went downhill thereafter, but that is politics. The right hon. Gentleman needs to understand that Anne Milton: I cannot comment on the specific patients have to come first in a national health service, circumstances, but I would be happy to meet the hon. and the trouble with the approach he took was that he Gentleman if he would like. I must point out to him, wanted politicians and bureaucrats to micro-manage it however, that the number of people now seeing an NHS from the top down, rather than having a bottom-up dentist remains lower than when the previous Government system that listened to local people. One of the key aims introduced the new contract in 2006. He mentions is to ensure that people get the finest and best treatment children, but there is no doubt that the inequalities in possible, and I am afraid that his approach—a straitjacket the oral health of children are scandalous. of targets in certain areas—did not work then, and will not work now. Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con) rose— 701 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 702

Mr Speaker: Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman 48-hour access target was that patients were unable to will apply the ingenuity required to stay within the access their GPs more than 48 hours in advance. Is it terms of a question relating to Chesterfield. not reasonable to expect GPs to be able to manage their own services in order to deliver better patient experience Sir Paul Beresford: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Given and outcomes across the board? I think we can reasonably my declared interest, it was too great a temptation not expect that. to contribute. Does my hon. Friend not agree that for dentists, the Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): It has biggest disincentive to providing an NHS service in been reported today that historically speaking, as a Chesterfield—and, in fact, in the rest of England too—is result of targets, an obstetrician in a hospital could the contract that she just mentioned, with its targets, its herself have a caesarean section but then have to refuse “units of dental activity”, its clawbacks and so on? Will one to a patient, because of the pressures that targets she ensure that any new system that she introduces put on the local NHS trust. Can the Secretary of State enables and encourages dentists to offer a choice between give us an assurance that any woman in the NHS who national health and private dentistry, thus encouraging needs a caesarean section will have one, and that no those who have opted out to opt back in again? targets will be imposed? Anne Milton: I thank my hon. Friend for his question—he Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is referring to World speaks eloquently and with much knowledge on this Health Organisation targets, which have not in themselves subject—and for highlighting the perverse incentives in been applied within the NHS, and it certainly would not the contract. It is absolutely critical that we take those be my intention to impose such targets. I agree with the out of any new contract. implication of her question, which is that a woman who NHS Targets needs a caesarean section should have access to one. I am also well aware that when a woman does not require 4. Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North a caesarean section we should seek, through a process Ipswich) (Con): What steps he plans to take to implement of discussion and providing information, to avoid that the Government’s proposals to end the target culture in wherever possible. Birth should be considered a normal the NHS. [4462] event, rather than being subject to excessive medicalisation.

The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): Low Vision On Monday 21 June I published a revision to the NHS operating framework in which I removed the central management of three process targets that had no clinical 5. Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): What his justification. We will carry on focusing on quality and most recent assessment is of the adequacy of the level outcomes, getting rid of top-down process targets. of support provided for people with low vision. [4463] Dr Poulter: Does my right hon. Friend agree that The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Paul meeting targets does not necessarily mean improving Burstow): It is for primary care trusts and local authority health care, and that the last Government were far too social services departments to make decisions on focused on the process of health care, rather than on commissioning, having assessed the evidence and needs improving the patient experience? in their areas, and taking account of standards and best practice. Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I was here just a few weeks ago, announcing a public inquiry Mrs Moon: Is the Minister aware of the excellent into the events at Stafford general hospital. Of course, scheme in Wales that allows people with low vision to in that hospital the adherence to ticking the box on the refer themselves to a high street optician or consulting four-hour target was one of the things that contributed ophthalmologist, and thus to have almost immediate to the most appalling care of patients. We have to focus access to the aids and support that they need? More on delivering proper care for patients—the right treatment than 87% of people are seen within two weeks under at the right time in the right place—and delivering the that scheme, whereas some areas in England have an best outcomes for them. We will focus on that—on 18-month waiting list, so will he examine the scheme to quality—not on top-down process targets. see whether it can be introduced in England? Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Is it really true that the coalition Government are going to Mr Burstow: I am grateful for that question. Obviously, scrap the right for people to see their GP within 48 hours? the devolved Administrations are responsible for health If so, will the Secretary of State publicise that, so care in their own areas, so we have an opportunity to people know that the right has been reduced? If it is learn lessons from each other. This Government will true, is he not just axing public service quality under the examine the evaluation of the scheme that the Welsh pretence of dealing with so-called bureaucracy? Administration are undertaking to see whether it provides any lessons for our system. Mr Lansley: It is astonishing—the Labour Government spent money trying to achieve the GP access target, and Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): the hon. Gentleman might at least have recognised that Will the Minister confirm whether the money provided the latest data, published two or three weeks ago, show by the primary care trust is ring-fenced? Will he ensure that public satisfaction with access to their GPs, and the that the time-sensitive nature of such conditions, especially things that the Labour Government had been paying wet and dry macular degeneration, will be taken into for, had actually gone down. A consequence of the account across all the English PCTs? 703 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 704

Mr Burstow: We need to achieve that not by ring-fencing The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health budgets but by making sure that clinicians can deliver (Anne Milton): I thank the hon. Lady for her question. clinically evidence-based practice so that those with May I correct the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner), age-related macular degeneration receive the treatments who suggested from a sedentary position that one of us that they need. Ring-fencing is not the way to go; we might be getting the sack, by saying that I doubt it, need to ensure that local commissioners have access to because it is the previous Government who have just got the right evidence, are empowered by patients and listen the sack? In answer to the hon. Lady’s question, I say to clinicians, in order to deliver the right services. that there is no doubt that anything that the Government do must have a strong evidence base. It is for individuals Cancer Surgeons to take responsibility for their health, and that includes healthy eating. However, the Government can help 6. Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): people make better choices—for example, by providing What steps he plans to take to increase the level of information, advice and so on. expertise among cancer surgeons. [4464] Kate Green: I am little disappointed in that answer. The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Paul Maternal nutrition before and during pregnancy is essential Burstow): I thank the hon. Lady for her question—to to the birth of a healthy baby. The Joseph Rowntree which the answer is that we recognise the crucial importance Foundation has shown that a healthy diet costs a minimum of high-quality surgery in improving outcomes for cancer of £43 a week. A young woman on jobseeker’s allowance patients. Since 2003, cancer-related surgical training receives only £51.85 a week, so can the Minister explain programmes have been developed when new technologies what she will do to ensure that young women on such and procedures have proved that patients would benefit low incomes can choose a healthy diet? from their introduction. Through the national cancer action team we are supporting training in laparoscopic Anne Milton: I am sorry that the hon. Lady was surgical procedures for colorectal cancer, and we will be disappointed. Clearly, she does not feel that the Government introducing surgical training for lower rectal cancer. should take a strong evidence-based approach to public health. I should point out to her that although life Mary Macleod: As procedures for cancer surgery, expectancy has increased, the gap between the rich and including robotic surgery, are getting more and more the poor has widened. If we look at the difference complex, does my hon. Friend feel that there is a case between spearhead areas and the country as a whole, we for an earlier selection of specialism for surgeons, to can see that the gap went up by 7% for men and 14% for ensure that the NHS maintains its reputation for clinical women. We are determined to reverse that. expertise and to influence positively cancer survival rates in the United Kingdom? Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Will the Minister join me in condemning the vote in the European Mr Burstow: As I said in my original answer, we Parliament not to back the traffic light system of food recognise the crucial importance of high-quality surgery. labelling, which is the clearest way of communicating The hon. Lady has made the important point that we nutritional messages? That followed a lot of lobbying must equip our surgeons with the right skills to carry by companies such as PepsiCo, Tesco and Kellogg’s. out highly complex and specialist procedures. That What will she do in terms of speaking to European means that we must deliver specialised training for that colleagues to get that important scheme back on the purpose to our existing work force. agenda?

Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Does the hon. Anne Milton: Again, the hon. Gentleman raises the Gentleman recognise that the 18% fall in the breast point that anything we do must have a strong evidence cancer rate between 1998 and 2008 was due not only to base. We are considering a number of schemes at the the expertise of cancer surgeons but to the target culture moment. What is important is that people have the to which he is so opposed? What would he say to the information on the pack of food that they buy, so that 3,500 women who, because of those targets, did not die they can make good choices about what they eat. in 2008? Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): Last week’s Budget Mr Burstow: I imagine that that would be an answer scrapped the health in pregnancy grant, which helps all the previous Government should be giving, and they pregnant women to eat healthily in the final 12 weeks of should be sorry. [HON.MEMBERS: “What?”] The reality their pregnancy. The previous week, the Government is that this Government are clear that we are sticking scrapped the free school meals pilot for 500,000 children, with the targets in relation to cancer, but we are also thrusting 50,000 children back under the poverty line. clear that we need to raise awareness of the signs and They have also scrapped free swimming for under-16s symptoms of cancer, and ensure that people present and pensioners just as the long summer holidays begin. themselves at an earlier stage and get access to the Is that not the most extraordinary start for a Government appropriate diagnosis, so that they get the right treatment. who promised to rename the Department of Health the “Department of Public Health”? With so many broken Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): He’ll be the first promises in their first seven weeks, how can we trust a one to get the sack. word that they say about public health? Healthy Eating Anne Milton: The hon. Lady and I have exchanged 7. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): What niceties in a slightly calmer atmosphere in another steps he is taking to encourage healthy eating. [4465] setting. I find it staggering that Opposition Members 705 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 706 cannot understand that what matters is not what we Friend refers. Once that has been done and decisions spend but how effective that spending is. They simply have been reached, we will be able to move forward in cannot understand it. In fact, Labour has said that it the proper way. would cut the NHS, whereas we have said that we will not. The sick must not pay for Labour’s debt crisis. We Alcohol Health Warnings did not get us into this mess, but I would point out to the hon. Lady that everything that we do must be based 9. Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): What plans on evidence. It is not what you spend, but what you his Department has for health warnings on labels of spend it on, that matters. alcoholic drinks. [4467] Community Hospital (Eltham) 10. Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): What plans his Department has for health warnings on labels of alcoholic 8. Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): What recent drinks. [4468] representations he has received on the new community hospital for Eltham; and if he will make a statement. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health [4466] (Anne Milton): A public consultation on options for improving health information on the labels of alcoholic The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon drinks closed on 31 May. The responses to that exercise Burns): The Department of Health is in contact with are now being analysed, and we will set out our plans strategic health authorities regarding ongoing community for next steps through announcements in the coming hospital programme funding. This includes contact with months. the London SHA for Eltham and Mottingham community hospital and other schemes in the region. Jim McGovern: I welcome all those on the Government Front Bench to their new posts. The tobacco health Clive Efford: I am grateful for that answer, as far as it warning regime introduced by the previous Government went—but there is a great deal of expectation in the has produced excellent results in improving the health community in Eltham that that project will be delivered. of our citizens. Does the Minister believe that a parallel It has been in the pipeline for quite some time and will scheme for alcohol would achieve similar progress and provide 40 respite beds, diagnostics such as blood tests benefits? and X-rays and, I hope, dialysis at a local level, as well Anne Milton: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his as a GP-led walk-in urgent care centre. May I urge the warm words of welcome. It is important to note that Minister to revisit the project, and when I ask a future sometimes such warnings are not transferrable between question, to come back with a better answer? products. As he rightly says, there have been a number of initiatives on smoking that have, without doubt, had Mr Burns: I am a bit perplexed by the hon. Gentleman’s an impact on the number of people who smoke and the comments, because I have answered the specific narrow number who have given up. Whether those are transferrable question that he asked—but let me try to cheer him up, to alcohol we do not yet know, but we will be looking at if I can. We understand that he has been a redoubtable all the evidence available. campaigner for the hospital, and we support the principle of community hospitals. The Department, as the hon. Nia Griffith: The Minister will be aware of a recent Gentleman knows, allocated £4.58 million to help the Alcohol Concern report that points out that a minimum community hospital in Eltham and has already given alcohol price of 50p a unit would cost a moderate about £1.9 million to NHS Greenwich, the primary care drinker only about 23p a week, but would reduce alcohol- trust, for it. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not related illness significantly, and would save the NHS have to come back to me with another question, because millions. What discussions has she had with colleagues I trust that I am now going to cheer him up: I can in other Departments about such a minimum price? announce today that the balance of the money will be paid and made available during the current financial Anne Milton: We have had a number of conversations year. about all aspects of alcohol policy, and what to do about the 7% of hospital admissions that are due to Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): alcohol and the £2.7 billion cost—some estimates put it I congratulate my hon. Friend on that announcement, much higher, at about £5 billion—to the NHS. Without which will bring considerable pleasure to people in doubt, we have to change the public’s relationship with south-east London. He is well aware that proposals are alcohol. We are committed to a ban on selling below-cost being made within our area of south-east London to alcohol, which is important—but it is also important reorganise health provision, which are causing considerable not to disfranchise responsible drinkers, as plenty of concern. Will he ensure that vital services are maintained people enjoy alcohol responsibly. What we have to do is in our area for patients? stop irresponsible drinking and protect people’s health.

Mr Burns: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. As he Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD): I thank the Minister for rightly says, I am aware of the situation. As he will be that answer. She will recognise the problems that binge aware, we believe that local people, local clinicians and drinking causes our health service, our police and our local GPs should have an input into any reconfiguration local communities. I am delighted that she has recognised of health care provision. As my right hon. Friend the that there has been an agreement to ban the sale of Secretary of State said when he announced the changes alcohol at below cost price, but will she assure us that to the criteria, there will be an assessment of whether the Government are taking this issue seriously, and that they apply to the reconfiguration to which my hon. we will hear an early announcement? 707 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 708

Anne Milton: The hon. Gentleman is right; this is a reconfigurations, will he confirm that he is prepared to cross-departmental issue. This is not just about health; reconsider the decision to close Salford’s maternity services, it is important for local government as well. We need a and to recognise the views of thousands of people multi-faceted approach. As I have said, we will look at throughout Salford and Eccles, including me, who opposed all the evidence to see what works, and to make those it at the time? changes not only in law and order, as he pointed out, but in people’s health. Mr Lansley: The right hon. Lady knows that we will meet to discuss the issue. However, as I said when I was Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): There are cross- in Greater Manchester, it is not for me to reconsider the references between the labelling on alcohol and on application of the new criteria from 21 May. That is for other products, and the evidence clearly shows that with local people to reconsider. It is for GPs, the public, local food labelling, the public find colour-coded, front-of-pack authorities and, indeed, PCTs in Salford and district to labelling far easier to understand. What has the Minister start thinking about what they consider to be viable and learned from that, and will her Department, with other successful future services for mothers-to-be. Departments, seek an opt-out for retailers that want to continue, voluntarily, with front-of-pack colour-coding Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): on their products? In helping local people to become more involved in NHS decision making, will my right hon. Friend agree Anne Milton: It is important not to pre-empt the to consider my Ambulance Response Times (Local consultation that has already gone on, and to collect all Reporting) Bill, which received its Second Reading the evidence together. To find out the best method for during the last Parliament? The Bill requires all ambulance getting that information to the public in a way that they trusts to publish local as well as regional response times find accessible, we have to look at what works. and patient outcomes so that—as is already the case in Crewe and Nantwich—they have access to those details NHS Decision Making and can deliver better response times, with the help of local initiatives such as Community First Responders. 11. Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): What steps his Department is taking to increase Mr Lansley: Yes, we will consider that. participation by local people in NHS decision making. [4469] Waiting Times

The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): 12. Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): I have stopped top-down reconfigurations where the What his policy is on maximum waiting times in NHS has not listened to local people. Our coalition accident and emergency departments; and if he will agreement is clear that we will give patients more control make a statement. [4470] over their own health care, and give patients and the public a stronger voice in the design of local health and The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): care services. From April 2011, the accident and emergency four-hour waiting time standard will be replaced by a set of Mr Raab: NHS managers have justified cuts in clinical quality standards, developed with clinicians, community hospitals in Walton, Cobham, Molesey and which will support quality care without the damaging other parts of the country on efficiency grounds, but in distortion of the four-hour tick-box target. On the basis 2009, because of targets, almost 1 million patients were of clinical advice, I have immediately reduced the threshold discharged and then readmitted within 30 days, at a cost for meeting the four-hour standard from 98 to 95%. of £1.6 billion. What plans has the Secretary of State to strengthen local democratic control over community Paul Goggins: I am sure that the Secretary of State hospitals and the vital services that they provide? will want to join me in congratulating the staff at Wythenshawe hospital in my constituency. Last year Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend has raised an important 85,000 patients were seen in the accident and emergency issue. Let me make two points. First, we need to strengthen department, 98% of them within four hours. Can the not only the local public and patient voice but the voices Secretary of State explain to my constituents why he of GPs who are involved in commissioning, so that they has decided that this year 4,500 of those patients will can act on behalf of their patient population in not need to be seen within that time? commissioning the services, and design of services, that they need. Secondly, as I have made clear in the revision Mr Lansley: As I told the right hon. Gentleman, I of the operating framework, we must look at results. made that decision on the basis of clinical advice. It was When someone goes into hospital for treatment, we clear that the 98% standard was distorting clinical care must consider not just their treatment in the hospital, for patients. There is no benefit for patients if, for the but their subsequent rehabilitation and re-ablement. I purpose of meeting a four-hour target, they are discharged believe that that will allow greater use of intermediate inappropriately, transferred to wards when they have care beds in the way that my hon. Friend has described. not been thoroughly looked after in the accident and emergency department, or indeed put in an observation Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): I thank the ward for 48 hours, which is under the scrutiny of the Secretary of State for agreeing to meet me—together accident and emergency department but ticks the box. with representatives of my local primary care trusts, None of that helps patients. I will focus on what is local mums and midwives—to discuss maternity services actually in the best interests of patients, and delivers the in Salford. In the light of his new criteria for right outcomes for them. 709 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 710

Cigarette Packaging will the Minister commit to doing the same for those with autism, given that only 11% of CAMHS have 13. Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): What assessment specialist provision? Will he make a commitment to do he has made of the effects on public health of plain the same thing for those with autism please? packaging of cigarettes. [4471] Mr Burstow: The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health point. We shall be getting some guidance from the (Anne Milton): Evidence of the impact on public health National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in of plain packaging of tobacco needs to be developed a year’s time, and absolutely the answer is yes. further, because no jurisdiction globally has yet introduced Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): it. However, Australia will do so from 2012. We will May I congratulate the Minister on his new role. As my monitor developments there with considerable interest. hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) mentioned, carers of people with autism rely on respite Phil Wilson: Smoking costs the NHS £2.7 billion a care. However, carers organisations are reporting that year, six times the cost of a new hospital for north Tees cuts to local authority funding are already leading to and Hartlepool. In the north-east, approximately 10,000 cuts in funding for charities and other providers of children between the ages of 11 and 15 are smoking. We support care. How do the Government plan to deliver want all of them, not just half of them, to lead a the promised increase in access to respite care through fulfilled life. Will the Minister ensure that the assessment improved community support provision, when that is of plain packaging is expedited, so that we can be given already starting to fall away? an answer as soon as possible? Mr Burstow: The hon. Lady makes an important Anne Milton: The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the point, but perhaps she will be a little cautious with her impact that smoking still has on the health of children question, not least because the previous Government in particular—I believe that 200,000 take up smoking made a lot of promises to carers in respect of the each year. We still have 80,000 smoking-related deaths amounts of money that were to be invested, only for in this country. It is important to watch what happens in carers to find that on the ground the money was not Australia and see where the evidence points for the delivering changes in services. So this Government are future. determined to ensure that we not only make promises but deliver on them. That is the commitment that this Autism Government have made. Warrington Hospital 14. Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab): What his policy is on provision of healthcare services to those with 15. Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): What autism. [4472] percentage of patients at Warrington Hospital were treated within 18 weeks of referral in the last 12 months The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Paul for which figures are available. [4473] Burstow): We are committed to addressing the health care needs of people with autism and are fully supportive The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon of “Fulfilling and rewarding lives: the strategy for adults Burns): At the Warrington and Halton Hospitals NHS with autism in England”. Consultation on statutory Foundation Trust, in the 12 months up to April 2010, guidance for health and social care bodies to support 93.2% of patients admitted to hospital for treatment the strategy will begin shortly. and 97.8% of patients whose treatment did not require admission to hospital waited 18 weeks or less from Vernon Coaker: May I thank the Minister for that referral. reply? We have all been inspired by the parents of children with autism. One thing that they depend on Helen Jones: I am grateful to the Minister for that perhaps more than anything is respite care. While that reply. What percentage of patients does the Minister provision has improved in the past few years, with the now believe will be treated within 18 weeks, and which pressure on budgets, will the Minister do all he can to people exactly does he think deserve to wait longer than ensure that respite care does not become an easy target that? for cuts, given the importance of the service to parents of children with autism? Mr Burns: May I reassure the hon. Lady that in my lexicon no one “deserves” to wait longer. What I want, Mr Burstow: I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman and my right hon. and hon. Friends want, is a first-class for that question. He is right; carers are a valuable and health service that makes decisions based on clinical valued resource. They make an incredible difference to reasoning and gives treatment swiftly and relevantly to the quality of life of the people for whom they care. The those who need it. My right hon. Friend the Secretary Government are determined, as we have outlined in the of State has made some changes to some of the targets coalition programme for government, to develop respite to ensure that clinicians and clinical decisions dominate, services further and make them available through direct not political decisions by politicians and bureaucrats. payments for those people. Long-term Care

Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): 16. Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): Given the success of central Government in persuading What progress he has made on establishing his proposed child and adolescent mental health services to take the commission on funding long-term care; and if he will needs of those with learning difficulties more seriously, make a statement. [4474] 711 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 712

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Paul he will not allow the closure of the accident and emergency Burstow): The coalition agreement sets out our plans to department, the children’s surgery or the maternity establish an independent commission, which will consider services at King George hospital in Ilford? Yes or no? how we ensure responsible and sustainable funding for long-term care. Further details on the commission will Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman’s question seems be announced shortly. rather churlish, given that he wanted to stop the top-down configuration that NHS London imposed so that people Stephen Twigg: I am grateful to the Minister for his in his area—GPs, the local authority, local people and response. Can he assure us that when the commission is patients—could have an opportunity themselves to decide established it will consider all options for funding long-term how services might best be designed for local people. care, including a compulsory inheritance levy? That is the pledge that I have made. Those criteria will enable that process to be led locally, rather than imposed Mr Burstow: The Government’s intention is not to and forced on people. fetter the commission but to allow it to do its job. T4. [4487] Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con): NICE St Catherine’s hospice is used by many of my constituents, and they will be pleased to be able to go 17. Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): What recent ahead with the hospice’s planned improvements, which representations he has received on the appropriateness will be funded through the capital grants programme. of the remit of the National Institute for Health and Does the Secretary of State agree, however, that the Clinical Excellence; and if he will make a statement. excellent work of such hospices goes far beyond the [4475] hospice building? What will his Department do to ensure that hospices play a greater role in providing The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): services to the local community? Since 7 May, the Department has received about 120 representations from hon. Members, noble Lords Mr Lansley: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, and members of the public on a range of issues concerning who will know that I entirely understand and applaud the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, the work of St Catherine’s hospice because we have including its remit. visited it together. She makes a very important point, because those whom I know in the hospice movement Philip Davies: May I urge the Secretary of State to get want to think not just about the service that they NICE to go back to what most people think it is for, provide in their buildings, but about an holistic service which is to monitor the cost-effectiveness and clinical for patients’ families and for those who require palliative effectiveness of drugs? Many people do not think that it care. I might just say that on Saturday I made it clear does a particularly good job on that, anyway, but it is that up to £30 million will be available in this financial currently indulged in empire building, with its ridiculous year to support children’s hospices, specifically, in extending drivel in recent weeks on smoking breath tests for their work so that they can provide a service in the pregnant women, compulsory sex education for five-year- community for children with life-limiting illnesses. olds and subsidies for food companies to make healthier food. Surely it ought to go back to what it should be Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): The right hon. Gentleman doing, and doing it better, rather than empire building, will remember our exchanges at the election hustings, as it is doing. where there was a real difference between us: we said that we would protect the NHS budget in real terms, Mr Lansley: In 2005 the previous Government charged and I stand by that commitment; the right hon. Gentleman NICE with producing public health guidance as part of said that he would increase the NHS budget. After last its work. As I establish a more integrated and effective week’s Budget, however, we now know the price of that public health service, I shall consider how the advice of commitment: 25% cuts to social care will mean vulnerable NICE fits into that strategic framework. people either left without the support that they need or facing higher charges to pay for care, and huge pressure Topical Questions on carers. It means also that the NHS itself stops working, because it cannot discharge people from hospital T1. [4484] Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): If when there is no support in the community. That he will make a statement on his departmental unbalanced approach to public spending is dangerous responsibilities. and will decimate services on which the NHS depends. Is it not time to drop a pledge that had more to do with The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): votes and nothing to do with people’s lives? My responsibility is to lead the NHS in delivering improving health outcomes in England; to lead a public Mr Lansley: So there we have it, Secretary of State. health service that improves the nation’s health and [HON.MEMBERS: “Secretary of State?”] I meant reduces health inequalities; and to lead the reform of “Mr Speaker”—you are far more elevated than a Secretary adult social care that supports and protects vulnerable of State, Mr Speaker. people. The shadow Secretary of State’s belief is that the NHS budget should be cut. I fail to see how that could Mike Gapes: When the new Secretary of State intervened help social care. We are going to look much more to stop the reorganisation of health services in London, positively at how we can join up the work of the NHS he said that there would be no forced closures. Can he and social care. What my colleagues and I have announced give me an unambiguous and categorical assurance that on 30-day support for patients leaving hospital, including 713 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 714 rehabilitation and re-ablement, will do precisely that, Several hon. Members rose— relieving some of the pressures on social care by seeing the NHS as a more holistic service for patients. Mr Speaker: Order. I have just had Members complaining that they cannot hear. The Minister must face the T5. [4488] Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): Does House. It is a very simple point; I have made it to others the Secretary of State accept the conclusions of the and they have understood it. Science and Technology Committee’s report “Evidence Check 2: Homeopathy”? Earlier, the Under-Secretary Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): One of the concerns gave a commitment to an evidence-based approach and of a great many of us recently has been the availability today the British Medical Association passed a motion of cancer care drugs. [Interruption.] Right across—right about homeopathy. Given the financial constraints in across, Mr Speaker, the whole United Kingdom, and which we all share, can the Secretary of State defend Northern Ireland in particular, a great many people spending millions of pounds of NHS money on have not been able to access cancer care drugs and have methods that simply do not work? had to endure sickness and illness without them. Can the Secretary of State assure the House today that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health cancer care drugs will be made available and that those (Anne Milton): I thank the hon. Gentleman for his who are ill and suffering from cancer can rest easy? question. He obviously knows how much is spent on homeopathic treatments, although no one else seems to Mr Lansley: We have been very clear that it is a know exactly. The decisions should be taken by doctors scandal that we have some of the finest cancer research locally, and the effectiveness, safety and efficacy of a anywhere in the world and some of the best cancer treatment should be taken into account. The estimate is medicines have been developed in this country yet in the that 0.001% of the drugs bill is currently spent on such past in this country NHS patients have often been treatments. At present, we are looking at the Science the last to have access to those drugs. That is why at the and Technology Committee’s report. We hope to respond election we made it clear that we will introduce from to it before the summer recess. April next year a cancer drugs fund, the purpose of T2. [4485] Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): My right which will be to ensure that patients get access through hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State referred to the NHS to the cancer medicines that they need, on the Commonwealth Fund report, which said that Britain’s clinical recommendation and advice, and that they are NHS was the most efficient. Does that not make it clear not unduly delayed in getting that access. that after 13 years of a Labour Government, the NHS is not just so much better for patients, but efficient? To T9. [4492] Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): I am sure say that it is not is an insult to the people who have that the Secretary of State will remember visiting my worked so hard to make it great. constituency earlier in the year and listening to constituents’ concerns about the withdrawal of spinal Mr Lansley: I have looked at Commonwealth Fund injections on the NHS. Given that the PCT’s decision is reports for a number of years; it regards the NHS as set to become another example of the postcode lottery efficient because it spends relatively little in comparison in the health service, will his Department consider the with other health economies. In this country, we need to ongoing debate about spinal injections in York and recognise that the NHS does not spend very much in support the attempts of my constituents as they seek to comparison with other countries but it could spend it shape local health services around their specific needs? more efficiently. There has been declining productivity for 10 years. [Interruption.] The shadow Secretary of Mr Burns: I am a bit confused as to where to look. State needs to recognise that NHS management costs [Interruption.] Right, I will look forward. went up by 63% while nursing costs went up by just My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State well 27%. My colleagues and I are committed to halving remembers his visit in April to meet the York and NHS management costs and to reducing the costs of District pain management support group. He made it the NHS, through efficiency, by £20 billion. Every penny plain at the time that it should be for GPs and their of that will be reinvested in meeting the rising demand patients to decide what treatment should be given, as for the NHS and the improvements in quality that we opposed to a decision by the PCT to veto spinal injections require. for all sufferers of long-term chronic back pain. We will, in due course, set out our proposals to put more T7. [4490] Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): What encouragement is the Secretary of State giving to power in the hands of patients and GPs. primary care trusts to restore minor injury services to towns such as Melksham in my constituency? It saw its T3. [4486] Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab): Does the minor injuries unit close under the last Government. Minister agree that it is crucial for patients to have information if we are to make a reality of choice within The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon the NHS? In that respect, does he agree that if we are Burns): I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for to give people a real choice as regards the choose and that question. It is up to local communities and local book system that GPs operate, there is a need to ensure health providers to identify what they believe are the that patients have the information about the success local needs of their communities and then go through rates of different hospitals, and different surgeons, as the procedures, measures and mechanisms to seek to regards operations? achieve what they want—in this case, that could be a new A and E. It is not for Ministers to promise such Mr Lansley: I agree with the hon. Gentleman—it is provision; there are proper procedures, from the local just that that did not happen under a Labour Government area upwards, for achieving such aims. in the way that it should have done. For example, the 715 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2010 Oral Answers 716 national quality registers in Sweden have 69 areas of services in south-east London, which was clinically led, clinical practice where those kinds of comparative data the subject of detailed public consultation and approved are published. I have made it clear that one of our by the reconfiguration panel. The outcome is to leave priorities is that we focus on outcomes and on giving my PCT and hospital trust acutely troubled about their patients real empowerment. To do that, information for ability to deliver the improved health services that were patients on outcomes will be absolutely critical. promised under “A picture of health” and to meet their financial targets. What does that say about the Government’s T10. [4493] Dr John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I have commitment to evidence-based policy making? here a letter from my local PCT indicating that the clinical review of the safety of a proposed children’s Mr Lansley: What we have done in London is to give walk-in centre in Southport is to be conducted by those who would be most affected by decisions to Dr Sheila Shribman and the Minister’s Department. reconfigure services the opportunity, where decisions Will the Minister arrange to meet me and relevant have not already been made, to have a local say. That officials to ensure that the Department is properly includes patients, the public and GP commissioners. aware of the background to this vital access issue and The delay, in so far as there is any delay, need not be that we have a clinical network suitable for patients, as great if those proposals are fully subscribed to by local well as for practitioners? people and by their GPs as commissioners. Anne Milton: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): Would my right question, of which he gave our office prior warning. It hon. Friend accept that there is widespread anecdotal is important that decisions made locally focus on outcomes evidence of the effectiveness of homeopathic medicines? for people, that they are about choice, that they have There are 500 doctors in this country who use them, support from local clinicians and commissioners, and and nobody is obliged to have them if they do not want that they are based on sound clinical evidence. I would them. Will he therefore heavily discount the illiberal be happy to meet him to discuss this further. views of our hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert)? T6. [4489] Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): Every year in the north-east, 300 children are born with Anne Milton: May I thank my hon. Friend for his congenital heart disease. These very sick children receive question and pay tribute to him for his continued and expert treatment locally in the world-class cardiothoracic persistent lobbying on the subject? I gather that he has unit at Newcastle’s Freeman hospital. Can the Minister been elected a member of the Select Committee on assure my constituents, who value this vital local service, Health, so I welcome him to that position and I am sure that the findings of Sir Ian Kennedy’s review of children’s that we will meet again at some point. heart surgery centres will be implemented without financial What is important is that decisions about treatment constraint? are made by clinicians, and they will base their decisions on the safety, efficacy, efficiency and outcomes that a Mr Lansley: I should tell the hon. Lady that it is particular treatment will provide. premature to make any commitment about the review, because we now need to have proper engagement with Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): The North local people, patients and those who are responsible to Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust believes focus on how we can make absolutely certain that the that its strategy for one hospital to replace the North outcomes that we achieve for children requiring cardiac Tees and Hartlepool university hospitals is the right surgery are as good as we can possibly make them. strategy, despite the project being dropped by the Government. Does the Minister accept that the trust’s Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Will the Minister strategy to provide a new hospital and health facilities review the problem of highly priced patient lines and closer to communities to meet their health needs is introduce competition so that patients in Harlow and correct, that the trust should be encouraged to press elsewhere no longer pay extortionate prices to watch ahead with alternative funding models that could still TV or make phone calls? deliver the new hospital, and that its members and the public at large can expect Government support to realise Mr Burns: I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend that strategy? for raising an issue that I know is of concern to many people. Although I cannot make promises about the Mr Lansley: What I would look for is for the foundation outcome of any review, he has my assurance that we will trust to meet the criteria that I published on 21 May in be looking into this, and that we take on board the relation to any reconfiguration of services that it proposes concerns that have been expressed over a number of years. for its area. As a foundation trust, I would also expect that, having secured the freedoms associated with that Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): status, it should not ask the Department of Health to The Secretary of State has halted the reconfiguration of meet the whole capital cost of whatever it proposes. 717 29 JUNE 2010 718

Speaker’s Statement Points of Order

3.32 pm 3.33 pm Mr Speaker: I will now announce the results of the election of members of the Backbench Business Committee. Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): On a point of No ballot was required for the election of the following: order, Mr Speaker. This morning we lost an hour and a Mr Peter Bone, Philip Davies, Jane Ellison, John Hemming half of valuable debating time in Westminster Hall on and Mr Philip Hollobone. the issue of apprenticeships, when the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), whom I informed that I In the ballot today, the votes cast for the candidates would raise this point of order, did not turn up at were as follows: Mr David Anderson, 99; Katy Clark, the appointed time. Incidentally, the Minister for 57; and Alison Seabeck, 92. Mr David Anderson and apprenticeships, the hon. Member for South Holland Alison Seabeck are elected. I congratulate all those and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), was not present at the elected. appointed time either, and the debate fell. To lose one Member might be considered unfortunate; to lose two seems like carelessness. Is there anything that you can do, Mr Speaker, to reinstate the valuable time for that debate so that hon. Members such as myself who took time to prepare a speech can have the opportunity to deliver it to the House and have it recorded in Hansard? Could you also have a word with the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority to see whether it will allow Conservative Members to claim for alarm clocks?

Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for giving me advance notice of it. I understand that Members are disappointed to have missed the opportunity to debate the national apprenticeship scheme. I have received a letter of profuse apology from the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), which I appreciate and I think the House will appreciate. The smooth conduct of business requires keeping to set times for the start of debates, and it is important that all Members grasp that at the outset and keep it in the forefront of their minds. It is perhaps an object lesson for all of us early on in the new Parliament. I note the request that the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) made for the matters in question to be aired on another occasion. I cannot commit at this point, but I hope that there will be another chance for those important matters to be debated in the House. As the hon. Member for Gloucester is in the Chamber, I think we would be pleased to hear from him.

Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Thank you, Mr Speaker. May I offer the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) and the House the same unreserved apology that I gave you earlier for my poor timekeeping this morning?

Mr Speaker: I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I think that quite enough has been said. [Interruption.] Order. Members are getting ahead of me—or they think they are—but I know what I was thinking and they do not. They will now see what I was thinking, which is that it would be helpful for the House to hear from the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), who is in his place. I know that he will be happy to comment.

The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr John Hayes): That was literally irresistible. Of course, I should have been in my place as well. I arrived as the sitting was suspended by the relevant 719 Points of Order29 JUNE 2010 Points of Order 720

[Mr John Hayes] Mr Speaker: Very well. I will take him on trust. member of the Panel of Chairs. I apologised to him Mark Lazarowicz: My right hon. Friend the Member then, and I have also dropped a note to you, Mr Speaker, for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) referred to the question on as you know. that subject that was tabled in my name. In fact, I have tabled a written question today asking the Chancellor Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the Minister. to give the evidential basis for the statement that he made in the Budget last week. Could you urge him to Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): On a point of give a speedy answer to that question, in order to order, Mr Speaker. While noting that the particular bird reassure the House that his assertions in the Budget has flown, is it in order for a Member of the Front speech were based on fact? Bench to berate, scoff, scold and hiss at the Chair when a Member is trying to ask a question? Do you recognise that it is disrespectful to the House and the Chair, and, Mr Speaker: I do not think that it would be right for importantly, it also impedes a Member from asking a the hon. Gentleman to seek to draw me into these question and getting a sensible answer from the occupants interesting exchanges. He has tabled a question, and an of the Front Bench? Will the Speaker make it clear that answer might be forthcoming. I note his reference to the his order covers not only Back Benchers but Front importance of evidence, and I simply note in passing Benchers? that we would be establishing a new precedent in the House if we were to regard it as mandatory for a Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right Minister to provide evidence for the arguments that he about the last point. The writ of the Chair applies to all or she was making. Members, irrespective of whether they sit on the Back or the Front Benches. On his particular point, I must Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): On a say that nothing was recorded. I was focused at all times point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you or your office on the questions being asked, those seeking to ask them been notified as to whether the Secretary of State for and Ministers answering them. However, respect for the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport will be coming to Chair is important, and respect by one Member for the House to apologise for the distress that his unacceptable another’s right to be heard without interruption is comments about the Hillsborough disaster have caused extremely important. I hope that it will not be necessary to the families of the 96 who died, and to people right in the course of the new Parliament and the new politics across the political and football divide? for that point to have to be made again from the Chair. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for highlighting an Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for important matter. his point of order, and I understand the very strong feelings—including those of constituents—that will have Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): On a point of motivated him to raise it. In response, I would say that order, Mr Speaker. Last week in the Budget statement, the remarks complained of—which I am neither justifying the Chancellor said: nor condemning—were not made in the House, and “Today there are some families receiving £104,000 a year in that my clear understanding is that the Secretary of housing benefit. The cost of that single award is equivalent to the State has apologised for them. He has made a public total income tax and national insurance paid by 16 working apology, and the question of whether he seeks to make people on median incomes. It is clear that the system of housing benefit is in dire need of reform.”—[Official Report, 22 June an apology or any other comment on the matter in the 2010; Vol. 512, c. 174.] House is a matter for him. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) for In order to drill down into that—I promise I will get to raising the matter, and I hope that he feels that I have the point of order in a second—I asked, with my hon. given him at least an informative response. Friend the Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz), a parliamentary question of the Department for Work and Pensions. I had a reply today, John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): On an which said: earlier point of order, Mr Speaker. In the previous “The information requested is not available.” Parliament, the Procedure Select Committee decided to establish a process whereby hon. Members could approach Has the Chancellor sought to rescind his statement the Committee if they were unhappy with the nature of about the £104,000 housing benefit? It has become the answers that they received to written questions. I common currency in the debate about reforming housing understand that, in this Parliament, we will continue to benefit, yet the Department tells me, as a Back Bencher, offer such an opportunity for people to put their complaints that the information is not available. to the Committee, once it has been created. Mr Speaker: I thank the right hon. Lady for her point of order. I think that she is continuing a debate with Mr Speaker: That is a useful contribution to the some force, eloquence and insistence. She is an experienced continuation of point of order exchanges. Member and a distinguished former Minister, and the opportunity exists for her to table follow-up questions. I Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): have a hunch that it will not be long before she avails On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand that herself of it. important announcements have been made today on the abolition of the regional development agencies and Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ the setting up of new local government structures to Co-op): Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. replace them. May I implore you, sir, to use your good 721 Points of Order 29 JUNE 2010 722 offices to press Ministers to make statements of that nature in the House first, so that they can be properly Opposition Day debated? [2ND ALLOTTED DAY] Mr Speaker: I can say to the hon. Lady that I am aware of concerns about this matter, and there will be Local Government Financing an opportunity to explore it. On the procedural point that she raises, I am conscious of and looking into the Mr Speaker: I inform the House that I have selected matter. I hope that that is helpful. the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. To move the motion, I call Mr Grant Shapps—[Interruption.] I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon; I apologise. I call Mr John Denham.

3.43 pm Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): Force of habit, Mr Speaker. I beg to move, That this House regrets the decision of the Government to introduce £1.165 billion of cuts to local government funding in England in the current financial year; regrets the Liberal Democrat members of the Government supporting cuts they opposed during the general election campaign; notes the promise in the Coalition Agreement to “ensure that fairness is at the heart of those decisions so that all those most in need are protected”; regrets that this programme of cuts fails to meet this test of fairness, as they fall disproportionately on the hardest-pressed communities; notes with concern the principle set out by the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State on 10 June that “those in greatest need ultimately bear the burden of paying off the debt”; condemns the failure of the Secretary of State to tell the House or local authorities where £504 million of cuts to funding will fall; further regrets the failure to consult local government on the allocation of the cuts; further notes with regret that the Government’s further decisions on the Future Jobs Fund, housing and support for neighbourhood policing will weaken the ability of local councils to shape and deliver services in their areas; regrets the failure to make any progress on implementing the previous administration’s commitment to Total Place, enabling local authorities to deliver real efficiency savings and contribute to reducing the deficit while protecting frontline services; and resolves that decisions affecting local government spending should be based on the principles of fairness, protection of frontline services and promotion of growth. I was interested to hear the earlier exchanges about Ministers not turning up for debates. May I say how disappointed I am that the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government has not bothered to turn up for this one? In 10 years as a Minister, I always respected the strong convention in the House that if a shadow Secretary of State chose to lead an Opposition day debate, the Secretary of State would respond. I am very disappointed that, on the first Opposition day debate on a Communities and Local Government topic, the Secretary of State could not be bothered to be here. The truth is, of course, that he is too scared to be here. He is too scared to explain the series of blunders that he has already made over these cuts. He is so scared of defending what he is doing that he prefers to treat the House with disdain. So we shall have to make do with the Minister for Housing, the right hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps) instead. I remember when my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and I insisted that building firms who took public money to build social housing should train apprentices. When they did so, the current Minister described it as ludicrous and counter-productive. We have all seen the minutes of his meeting with the Prime Minister’s adviser on local government, the leader of Hammersmith and Fulham 723 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 724

[Mr John Denham] Now the Lib Dems support these cuts, and their credibility as a progressive alternative to the Tories is council, at which it was agreed that it was a priority to shot to pieces. These are cuts that no local government raise rents in the social sector to equalise those between council had any chance to prepare for, coming as they social housing and the private sector. So we know where do well into the financial year. As the Tory leader of he is coming from—he has got form. West Berkshire council told us: “This is unprecedented. We have never faced cuts in the middle Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): I have of the year.” something of an interest in what goes on in Hammersmith. As the Tory leader of Telford said, I heard the Minister for Housing say from a sedentary “this is money that we had planned to spend this year and will position that he was not at that meeting. Perhaps he now have to be cut.” would like to clarify that, because my understanding is that he was not at the main part of the meeting, discussing the demolition of council estates and the Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): My right hon. ending of social tenancies—although he has learned the Friend is right to be furious that the Secretary of State lesson and is now proposing to do just that—but he did is not attending the debate. The Secretary of State get there for drinks and canapés at the end. seems to see himself as some sort of Conservative John Prescott. Does my right hon. Friend share my feeling that that fine gentleman would have been proud to stick Mr Denham: My hon. Friend makes a good point. up for his Department instead of letting it take the Indeed, he owes his re-election to the awareness of his majority of the cuts and would have come here to constituents of exactly what the Tory agenda for local defend his decision rather than skulking off to the scene government was in his constituency. I will return to that of former crimes? point later.

Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): While Mr Denham: My hon. Friend makes a good point. reflecting on the past, would the right hon. Gentleman Despite some apparent superficial similarities between like to apologise for the unprecedented situation that the two gentlemen, one thing is clear: John Prescott occurred when he was Secretary of State and his own never ran away from a debate or argument, unlike the permanent secretary disavowed the key policy of unitary Secretary of State—[Interruption.] I did not say he status for various areas? The permanent secretary had never ran away from a fight; I just said he never ran so little faith in that policy that he went public with his away from an argument. view that it was a waste of public money. The truth is that the cuts were not only made too fast, but made without consultation. There was no discussion Mr Denham: I am sure we all wish the former permanent with local councils about whether or how they could be secretary at my Department well in his new position as made. The Local Government Association initially put permanent secretary to the Scottish Government. I out a press release welcoming the fact that it had been took the right decision on Norwich and Exeter, and I promised consultation, but ended up sending a desperate was right to back the desire of those cities to run their letter two weeks later saying, “Will you please tell us own affairs. It was a decision that I reached after many what’s going on?” The cuts came ahead of the Budget, months of careful consideration, along with my right which sets out cuts of 25, 30 or 35% to local council hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne. I services. have to say that it was all too typical of this Government that, within two days of the new Government being Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab): formed, the Secretary of State—who talks about Does my right hon. Friend agree that the basis of the localism—decided to quash the aspirations of those cuts is simply party political prejudice, which is why councils to run their own affairs, in a timescale that they were done so quickly? Otherwise, how could deprived meant that he could not possibly even have read the Salford have twice the rate of cuts of affluent Trafford? evidence that had been submitted by so many councils. I will return to the attitude of the Secretary of State in Mr Denham: My hon. Friend makes two important due course. points, both of which I will deal with, about the unfairness On 10 June, the Secretary of State announced of the cuts and the real agenda l behind them. Of course £1.165 billion of cuts in local government spending in the deficit needs to be tackled, and we set out our plans England in the current financial year. Because those to reduce it by more than half over four years. That was cuts were so big, the Secretary of State should have a tough enough target, but the cuts now laid out go come here to defend them. They were part of the much further than we would have gone; they go much £6 billion of cuts proposed by the Tories during the faster than we would have gone; and are being done in election. We opposed them as too early and too damaging ways we would not have done them. to economic recovery.The Liberal Democrats also opposed them. As the right hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Does my Huhne)—now a Liberal Democrat Cabinet member—said right hon. Friend share my concern that the cuts will be during the election campaign: felt disproportionately in heartland areas that have “If we took Tory advice and cut spending and raised taxes suffered a great decline in manufacturing, such as Stoke- precipitately, growth would stop. Unemployment and benefit on-Trent? I am particularly concerned about their impact spending would rise further. Tax revenue would stall.” on the Supporting People programme and the money But now he has taken Tory advice, and he will be held to providing care for people in the community. How can account for what happens. we plan for that? 725 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 726

Mr Denham: This is an important debate. The way in Mr Denham: There is the true voice of the Tory which the Secretary of State is handling these first cuts shires. The truth is that the local government funding warns us all of what lies ahead and the unnecessary formula—widely debated, widely discussed, widely damage that will be done to the local services on which consulted on—does give a weighting towards those the people we represent rely. When he made his cuts, he areas with the highest social need and the highest had choices to make about how to make them—to deprivation because the challenge of delivering services make them fairly, or not to make them fairly. So let us in those areas and of bringing about the equality of remember the promises that the right-wing coalition outcomes that we should all seek is greatest there. I do made: defend that. I do defend programmes like the working “We are all in this together. I am not going to balance the neighbourhoods fund, which has been targeted by this budget on the backs of the poor”, coalition Government, and through which money has said the then shadow Chancellor, now the Chancellor of of course been spent in areas of higher worklessness. It the Exchequer. is because of that that those areas saw more people “Our core aim is to hard-wire fairness back into national life”, coming off incapacity benefit as local authorities used that money to help get people off benefit and into said the Deputy Prime Minister during the election work—something we hear so much cant about from campaign. The right-wing coalition document states Government Members. So I say to the hon. Gentleman, that yes, I do defend that approach. “we will ensure that fairness is at the heart of those decisions so that all those most in need are protected.” Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Is my right hon. Friend So what did the Secretary of State do? aware that during the opening of yesterday’s debate on Let us take two boroughs next door to each other in the Budget in an exchange about cutting benefit to the the same conurbation. One is 15th in the deprivation long-term unemployed who are seeking work, the Secretary index; the other 178th. One has 27,000 people on housing of State for Work and Pensions referred to pensioners benefit; the other has 13,000. One has 11,000 unemployed living in houses that were too big for them and that they people; the other has 8,000. One has an average weekly were unable to look after. Does that not give away what income £40 below the other. One is poor; the other is really behind these benefit changes—that the pensioners comfortable. So what does “We are all in it together” and the poorest in our communities are going to pay the mean? Which one gets the bigger cut under the right-wing price? coalition? The poor one, of course! Salford loses twice as much as Trafford. And that is not an isolated example. Mr Denham: That would fit with a Budget that According to the Secretary of State’s own figures, Newham, increased VAT on everything pensioners buy with no the sixth most deprived borough in the country, loses attempt whatever to protect those pensioners from the £4.6 million, while Richmond, the 309th most deprived increase in their living costs, so my hon. Friend indeed borough, loses less than £1 million. In the Prime Minister’s raises a good point. district council, there will be no cut. His county of Oxford, which has a deprivation index of 10.85, gets a Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): Does cut of 0.7%. my right hon. Friend agree that another area where the If we look at the Deputy Prime Minister’s area, we coalition’s words are just not matched by its actions is in see that Sheffield has a deprivation index of 27.8 and a the talk about big societies and strengthening civic 1% cut—perhaps the real price of coalition. As for the society? The reality of the cuts in Birmingham is a councils losing the highest proportion of the their income, slashing of grants to those very voluntary organisations they are in places that have been left behind—the Lancashire that our city relies on to provide the services that mill towns like Burnley, the ex-coalfield areas like Ashfield supplement those of the local authority and statutory and the struggling seaside towns like Hastings. Among agencies, which ordinary people need. the metropolitan boroughs, it is the poorest that lose most. Why? Because it is what these Tories and Liberal Mr Denham: I have some sympathy with my hon. Democrats believe in. As the Under-Secretary of State Friend, as I have been involved at a local level in for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member working the voluntary sector’s Shopmobility scheme, for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill)—who I see which the local Conservative council wanted to cut. is not here to answer this debate either—said at oral Here was an organisation that had only a small amount questions with refreshing honesty: of public money but engaged huge numbers of volunteers, “Those in greatest need ultimately bear the burden of paying enabling thousands of people to get around the town off the debt”.—[Official Report, 10 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 450.] centre. It is funny, is it not, that that should be the Tories’ first target, despite all the talk about the big The poor will pay most, and that is what this right-wing society? coalition is all about.

Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): The right Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con) rose— hon. Gentleman cannot honestly defend the previous funding regime that saw authorities such as mine in Mr Denham: I shall give way again in a few moments, East Riding receive hundreds of pounds less per pupil but I want to make a little progress. than those in neighbouring Hull. Is he suggesting that What is quite clear is that all this is not an accident; it he wants to have cuts dished out to authorities that are reflects the values of the coalition. I have talked so far already disproportionately doing badly out of the about the Secretary of State’s figures. When he published funding, which would mean deprived pupils in my area the written ministerial statement, he said with great doing even worse than deprived pupils in neighbouring flourish that no council would lose more than 2% of its authorities? budget this year. That is bad enough; it is not trivial. It 727 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 728

[Mr Denham] these £6 billion of cuts would damage the economy. He is the one with questions to answer to his constituents, feels about 30% worse than that, however, if we take such as how he managed to run an election campaign into account the cuts implemented from today. By the being against a VAT increase and these cuts, yet here he time most councils have been able to put cuts into is standing up in the House defending the cuts—and no practice, it is going to feel twice that level of cut. doubt in due course defending the VAT increase as well. The truth is far worse, because the Secretary of State Several hon. Members rose— consciously withheld the true situation from the House. In the figures that were published, over £500 million of Mr Denham: I shall give way to the hon. Member for the £1.16 billion of cuts was not allocated to local Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), who has been waiting to authorities, so no one could tell what the impact would intervene for some time. be: it was kept secret—kept under wraps, kept from this House. A few days before, the centralising, dictatorial Sajid Javid: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for Secretary of State had instructed local authorities, under giving way. Why does he treat Members as if they are threat of punishment by law if they refused, to publish fools? If he wants the truth, it is that his Labour details of every item of spending over £500. As his Government’s funding formula was based on petty party hapless Minister told the House, no one had even politics and had absolutely nothing to do with the needs bothered to work out what that would cost local taxpayers; of individuals. If we want to use examples, the it was just another diktat from behind the big man’s schoolchildren in my constituency of Bromsgrove get desk. Yet the same Secretary of State who can tell £900 less per annum than those in neighbouring councils what to do down to the last £500 could not Birmingham. The reason for that is very simple: over manage to tell this House or local councils where he was the past 13 years areas where there are Labour voters cutting £500 million. It is ridiculous. got far more money, and the truth is that what we are doing is, in this terrible economic climate, restoring Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): Does some fairness back into the system. my right hon. Friend agree that the current cuts in local government belie any notion of fairness or progressiveness? Mr Denham: I think the whole House should take full The London borough of Tower Hamlets is the third note of that intervention, because the statement of most deprived borough in the country yet it faces one of principle we have just heard from the hon. Gentleman the largest cuts: £9 million, of which £1 million is from flies in the face of the commitment made during the the working neighbourhoods fund. That is in addition general election by the then shadow Chancellor, now to a likely £55 million of cuts over the next three years. Chancellor, who said: We should compare that with the figure of £1.3 million “We are all in this together. I am not going to balance the for the London borough of Richmond upon Thames, budget on the backs of the poor.” which includes the seat of the Secretary of State for We have now heard the authentic voice of the Conservative Business, Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Member party, however. Irrespective of any economic challenges for Twickenham (Vince Cable). How is it possible that faced by this country, the Conservatives would have the poorest have to suffer so much compared with one wanted to hammer the poor, and that is what they of the richest boroughs in the country? intend to do. It will not come as any surprise to Labour Members to know that that is what the Tories stand for. Mr Denham: My hon. Friend makes a very good What the Liberal Democrats are doing supporting it, I point, and also underlines the point I am about to have no idea. make, because on the original figures published by the Secretary of State, the Tower Hamlets cut was nowhere Several hon. Members rose— near as big as that. Earlier, I used the example of Mr Denham: I give way to my right hon. Friend the Newham, for which his table gives the figure of £4.6 million, Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough which was the biggest cut in London. Now that the dust (Mr Blunkett). has settled, however, we find that Tower Hamlets is up there as well with a figure of about £9 million and Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hackney loses £8.6 million, but as my hon. Friend said, Hillsborough) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend not “Don’t worry because Richmond is still doing all right.” agree that the interventions he has just taken from the hon. Members for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) Dr John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I rise to say a few and for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid) both demonstrate that words in the interests of fairness, because the right hon. the coalition is intent on redistributing grant away from Gentleman obviously thinks that, apart from eating the poorest boroughs and the poorest education services babies, there is very little the coalition does not do. Can and toward the better-off? Does that not completely he tell us which of the £40 billion of unallocated cuts give the lie to the idea that the so-called pupil premium the Labour party was likely to implement were going to will put more money back into the very boroughs and fall on local government? That would be a transparent, authorities that those Members have just attacked? open, rational and reasonable thing to do. Mr Denham: My right hon. Friend, as always, is Mr Denham: The hon. Gentleman needs to explain absolutely right. something to his constituents: why he is supporting a I must say that this debate is turning out to be rather cut that goes tens of billions of pounds deeper than the more useful than I expected. Just a small scratch on the plans we set out. That is what is causing the pain. surface of the Government’s supporters tells us what During the election campaign, he opposed the cuts I am they really believe, stand for and intend to do. As a talking about. He and his party colleagues said that number of Members have said, this has got nothing to 729 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 730 do with the economic crisis or the deficit; they just think planning delivery grant. Corby council did the right that our spending more money in the areas of greatest thing: it gave planning permission for houses and economic need was the wrong thing to do. Let us agree that that is development—and now it has had to pay for that with a the difference between the Government and the Opposition. 15% cut. I now give way to the hon. Member for Croydon Central. Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): I wonder whether my right hon. Friend is experiencing, as I am, a Gavin Barwell: I am very grateful to the right hon. slightly spooky feeling of déjà vu. If we think about Gentleman for giving way. He is trying to make the political gerrymandering, we all remember the days point that the previous Government allocated money when Westminster and Wandsworth were able to levy on the basis of need. Does he recognise that the result zero council tax because of the fix that had been done of the introduction in 2006-07 of the fourth block into on the allocation and distribution of grant. What we the funding formula, according to the London Councils are seeing from Government Members is history replaying report, has been a shift in local authority funding itself. We are seeing not a new, centrist, Cameron-friendly “from a relative needs basis towards a per capita basis, causing an Tory party but the same old right-wing Tories, determined arbitrary redistribution in funding between high-need and low-need to balance the books on the backs of the poor. authorities”? Mr Denham: My right hon. Friend is right. She also That is the result of the policies his Government introduced, did the job that I did until the election, and she knows and he did nothing to correct those decisions. that there are many people in local government who are not of our party, but who have a genuine commitment Mr Denham: If what the hon. Gentleman says means to the communities they serve and by whom they were anything, he is arguing that we should have shifted elected. Among the people who have been kicked in the more priority towards the poorest and that we actually teeth by these budget cuts are the locally elected made a mistake back in 2006. That does not fit coherently representatives of this Government. The Tory leader of with the approach of his hon. Friends. Blackpool council said, “we are one of the most deprived areas in the land and we shouldn’t be singled out like this.” Mr Skinner: Does my right hon. Friend agree that we should not be too surprised at what this Tory Government He had better not go to the East Riding or Bromsgrove, are doing to shift the balance towards the wealthier because he will get a different message. He continued: areas of Britain, because every pit in Bolsover was shut “I understand that some of the leafy lanes of Surrey and places by the previous Tory Government, throwing thousands have got away with it; well that can’t be right.” of people on to the dole and creating deprivation that The Lib Dem leader of Burnley council said, hitherto did not exist? Now the Tories are doing it “we are a deprived borough but once again we are suffering. I am again, but there is a difference because this time they are disappointed and sick of us being kicked by budget cuts in doing it under the cloak of so-called “respectability”, Burnley.” using those tinpot Liberals to cover for them—the Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab) rose— Liberals will undoubtedly have to pay for it at the end.

Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con) rose— Mr Denham: My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that. One of the things that we need to recognise Mr Denham: I give way to my hon. Friend the Member is that, sadly, in large areas of the country, particularly for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), and then I in my own area of the south, as well as in the south-east will give way to the hon. Member for Croydon Central and the eastern region, local government has for too (Gavin Barwell). long been divided between the Tweedledum of the Tory party and the Tweedledee of the Liberal Democrats. Andrew Gwynne: I am grateful to my right hon. The Liberal Democrats have often got away with claiming Friend, who is making a very good case. Is he as that they were a progressive alternative to the Tories, surprised as I am that members of Liberal Democrat- but that will no longer be allowed to stand. Somebody controlled Stockport council, who were extremely vocal has to speak up for the people of the areas suffering in the run-up to the election about the fact that their cuts and it will be the Labour party. grant settlement was not enough, have not uttered a single word of protest at the cuts now being forced on them? John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): There are perhaps two arguments here. One argument is about Mr Denham: They have obviously been nobbled, but whether the cuts should be made now or later, and the it remains to be seen whether they will stay nobbled other is about how they should be allocated. My personal once people at local level in my hon. Friend’s constituency view is that we must ensure that we fund local authorities understand what is really happening to them. on a needs basis—there is no question about that. The basic questions in this debate are about whether or not Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Will my right cuts should be made earlier and whether the quantum hon. Friend give way? should be the size it is. If we do not do this, the interest rates will be higher. If we follow the Labour party’s Mr Denham: If I may, I will just complete the point I advice, we will actually have greater cuts because we will was making by giving one last example. have to pay a higher interest rate on a higher level of We were told that there would be a 2% limit on cuts; debt. That is the fundamental truth of this argument, so however, Corby council faces a cut of 15% in one year, the right hon. Gentleman is arguing for greater cuts in because the figures did not include the housing and the long term. 731 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 732

Mr Denham: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that best for local people, but now the Secretary of State is there are two arguments—the cuts should be made now tearing up those rules. Who is going to decide what is or they should be made later—but he has the unique best for local people? He is. We wanted local councils to distinction of having argued both of them within recent have a say in the big planning decisions that affected weeks. more than one district. Who will decide now? The Secretary of State. He wants to set the council tax in John Hemming rose— every council, how often the bins are collected and how often councils can communicate with the public. He Mr Denham: No, I am not going to give way, because imposes cuts from the centre and will not talk to local it was not worth it last time. The hon. Gentleman spent councils about how to do it—no wonder he will not an election campaign saying that the cuts should not be turn up to speak in the House. Remember the power of made now, but he has spent every week since the election general competence? Remember the Prime Minister, saying that they should be. That is ridiculous and he when he was Leader of the Opposition, saying that cannot expect to be taken seriously. councils would be free to do whatever they like as long as it was legal? That did not last long under this Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con): When I was in Secretary of State. He needs to learn that there is a lot my office, after a meeting, I heard the right hon. Gentleman more to localism than sitting behind a desk in Whitehall take the name of Corby in vain. May I point out to him giving orders to local councils. that the cuts allocated to Corby borough council are Councils need to be leaders, shaping and delivering merely 1.1%, which puts it in the lower half of councils services in their area. Under Labour, councils were receiving cuts? Is the shadow Minister aware that Pat better financed—we reduced ring-fencing and targets Fawcett, the Labour leader of Corby borough council, and believed that local councils were often best placed complained bitterly at the funding settlement that Corby to decide what was best for local people. Labour local received when his Government were in power? councils had the lowest council taxes and Tory councils had the biggest increases. We trusted councils to deliver Mr Denham: I will send the hon. Lady the letter from the things that local people wanted. That is why local Corby borough council setting out why its cut had councils were the right vehicle to deliver the 18 million turned out to be much bigger than the 1% that it had free swimming sessions for pensioners and kids that will originally been told by the Secretary of State. now be scrapped. The views of the Tory leader of Derby council will be shared by many. As he said: Several hon. Members rose— “The withdrawal of funding for the free swimming scheme is very disappointing because we consider this to be a resounding success in Derby.” Mr Denham: I should make some progress, because I have further important points to make to the House— It was our belief in local government that made us see unfortunately, the Secretary of State is not here to why local councils should be the lead on council and defend them. When he made his announcement, he social housing and in supporting the Kickstart schemes, tried to sweeten the pill by promising local councils all of which are now on hold or scrapped. That is why greater freedom in spending what was left of their local councils were the right people to lead in tackling money; he said that £1.7 billion would be taken outside worklessness and why so many local councils, including the local government ring fence. That was fair enough, Tory councils such as Kent and Hampshire, were big because that is the same direction of travel that the bidders for and big users of the future jobs fund. They Labour Government had set and I am not going to could see that it was right to offer real jobs to young argue with it, but what has happened since? This people in their communities. Now, up to 80,000 jobs for Government have now been forced to admit that it was young people will be lost. all a mistake and that the figure was not £1.7 billion We trusted local councils—Tory, Lib Dem and Labour. after all, but £1.2 billion, so we have another disappearing Yes, sometimes they let us down. I remember when the half a billion pounds. How could that be? The truth is Tory-Lib Dem coalition in Birmingham failed to spend that the Secretary of State and his Ministers are not on its working neighbourhoods fund money; perhaps we top of their brief, and they do not understand how local should have realised that that was the shape of things to government finance works or where the money goes. come. However, many other councils repaid that trust All that would be bad enough, but that is not all. many times over. What is being revealed bit by bit is this Government’s It was right that local councils led on Building Schools limited vision of local democratic government. The for the Future. There are now 750 schools in 90 local country faces a major challenge as we and the world authorities whose schemes are on hold and in doubt. recover from a global recession, and effective, democratically accountable local government must be part of the solution, Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): My not part of the problem, but it is now clear that this right hon. Friend has set out in an extremely worrying right-wing coalition does not understand how important way the effect of this right-wing Tory-Liberal Democrat local government must be. coalition and of its cuts. Does he acknowledge that the It is not just about the unfair cuts, the impact on coalition has not in any way flagged up the potential front-line services and the impact on growth. It is quite savings before going straight into the cuts programme? clear that there is no decision so small that it is too small The Total Place project was one through which Tory for the Secretary of State to intervene. We wanted local councils in London and elsewhere said that they could councils to be able to decide whether planning powers make significant savings of tens of millions of pounds, should be used to control the spread of houses in yet there has been no mention of it from the Government. multiple occupation and to let them decide what was Will my right hon. Friend comment on that? 733 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 734

Mr Denham: My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I Government, but from the Department for Transport, shall move straight to that point. It is very clear that the the Home Office and all other Departments, to allow right-wing coalition is handling these cuts in a way that local authorities to take the lead at local level. is creating much deeper damage than is needed. My hon. Friend should not be in any doubt: cuts would Mr Denham: I agree with my hon. Friend and I have had to be made under our deficit reduction welcome him to his position as Chair of the Select programme. They would not have been as big or as fast, Committee on Communities and Local Government, to but difficult decisions would have had to be made none which he will bring considerable experience and knowledge. the less. There are big efficiency savings to be made, That is exactly what we offered local government and many of which were set out in the report that we local services in our last Budget, which offered a wide published before the election, written by Sir Richard range and scope for local services to pool their money Leese, leader of Manchester city council, and Sir Steve and use it in new ways. That is why I was confident that Bullock, mayor of Lewisham. They set out very clearly we could both deliver our deficit reduction programme the savings that could be made from sharing services, and protect front-line services, but as my hon. Friend sharing staffing and reducing layers of management, says, it can work only when it is backed from the top. but those changes need to be properly planned and There is no mention of it in the Budget or in the Red implemented consistently over several years, always putting Book, and every Government policy works against that citizens first. The Government’s approach of badly sensible, coherent approach. The Government are not planned, short-term, unfair cuts and arbitrary suspension just slashing local spending: they are fragmenting it. of key investment makes efficient savings impossible There is no point in giving councils more and more and ensures that the cuts will fall on front-line services control over disappearing funds if, at the same time, and their users, not on the back office. school spending is disappearing into academies and free In government, we recognised—this was the point schools, if the chance to work with health money disappears that my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor into hundreds of GP budgets or if police funding rides View (Alison Seabeck) made—that the only way to off into the sunset with an elected sheriff. [Interruption.] make the best use of local public service spending was I am sure that the hon. Member for Meon Valley to look at it as a whole. We need to look at all the money (George Hollingbery) is right. I shall come to him in spent on children, older people, offenders and drug and due course. alcohol problems as a whole. Rather than worrying at I do not know whether the Secretary of State simply the outset whether it is police money, health money, lost all those arguments or whether he never made school money or council money, we need to look just at them, but he has not done well. I shall give way now to how best to use it. the hon. Member for Meon Valley and later to the hon. We know that the most expensive children—the ones Member for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford). who are disruptive at school—are often those whose families are of most concern to social services. They George Hollingbery: I am very grateful to the right cause the most nuisance to local people and the police hon. Gentleman for giving way. First, I make the point and they probably have the highest need of adolescent that in 13 years of Labour rule, there was little or no mental health services. So we worked with local government integration across local services. Indeed, we could honestly and the Local Government Association to show that we say that silos grew a great deal more than they merged could produce better services much more efficiently if together. We do not need central rules to make that we brought together all the money that is spent on that integration happen; in Hampshire, we have Project Integra group. Our Total Place pilot showed that when we do and PUSH—the partnership for urban South that, we get a better service at lower cost. Hampshire—so he will know that there is plenty of The LGA says that government as a whole could save co-operation at local council level. £20 billion over five years. I am cautious about the On central control, does the right hon. Gentleman details behind that figure, but it is significant. That is agree that when Winchester city council, of which I was what councils think they could offer to cut the deficit a member for 11 years, made an assessment of the while protecting front-line services. That should be taken amount of spending it could control under the last seriously. Labour Government, it was below 5% of total spending?

Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con) rose— Mr Denham: It is useful to have a discussion with a Hampshire MP, as we are both familiar with PUSH, George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con) rose— but this is exactly my point: that partnership is very good and very important, but it is limited to the powers Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab) rose— held by the local councils. Until those councils are able to help to lead and shape health spending and law and Mr Denham: I shall give way to my hon. Friend. order spending in the area, we will not get the changes that we need. Mr Betts: I completely agree with my right hon. The hon. Gentleman’s second point is also reasonable, Friend’s analysis of Total Place. It is a way forward; it is but he overstates it. He calculates that Winchester council not going to deliver immediate savings, but with proper did not have the budget for Winchester university—well, planning it could deliver. However, it cannot be delivered no, but nor should it. Winchester council did not have properly through central diktat from the Secretary of the budget for Winchester prison, or for the benefits bill State. If improvements are to be delivered, there has to in Winchester. Not every piece of spending is amenable be a real transfer and devolution of power not merely to transfer to local authorities. However—particularly from the Department for Communities and Local over the last few years, and with local government—we 735 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 736

[Mr Denham] freeze and the abolition of the previous government’s plans for new bin taxes; further welcomes the scrapping of the unfair ports set out strong provision for local government. I am tax which threatened to harm Britain’s whole manufacturing desperate that we should not lose that provision, and sector; supports the reductions in business rates for small firms; acknowledges the significant efficiency savings already delivered not just for the purpose of a party political debate here. by local government but believes that there is further scope for The integration of local services is critical now. If the savings through joint working, professional procurement practices Government prove me wrong I shall be the happiest and radical town hall transparency; and asserts the importance of person in the world, because we shall then have the delivering local economic growth to all local communities across chance to deliver front-line services that people want in the country, assisted by new financial incentives, and of giving new freedoms to councils to allow them to focus their help on a way that genuinely saves money. Every Member, on local priorities and those most in need.”. whichever side of the House they sit, should be interested in that debate. I was a bit surprised to hear the right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr Denham) attack the Secretary Not so long ago, when he was Leader of the Opposition, of State, who had taken the trouble to write him a the Prime Minister said, “If you want to know what a personal note—it was delivered by hand to his office at Conservative Government would look like, look at 11.30 this morning—explaining that he was attending a Conservative councils.” regional Cabinet meeting in Yorkshire to talk about the I am happy to give way to the hon. Member for Mole announcement that was first made in the Budget statement Valley, if he still wishes to intervene. It seems that he last week of a £1 billion fund to help the very areas of does not. the country that the right hon. Gentleman has just What the Prime Minister said constituted a fair warning. complained will lose funding. As some of my hon. Friends have already observed, what we are seeing is not the unavoidable consequence Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): I saw the of a global recession or even of a Labour Government. right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr Denham) The aim of the Tories, limply propped up by the Liberal shake his head. The personal letter was put on the Democrats, is and always has been to roll back an letterboard by me this morning, and my office telephoned effective, caring and active state. Their vision is of the his office twice to ensure that it was there. budget airline council, the sink-or-swim council, the no-frills council, where town halls offer only the bare Grant Shapps: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for minimum of service and people must pay twice to get a clarifying that. I now understand that the note was in good service. I think of councils such as Wandsworth, the right hon. Gentleman’s pigeonhole, and that the whose leader said that the council wanted to telephone call—[Interruption.] “increase charges as far as possible beyond inflation...It is worth taking a trial and error approach”. Clive Efford: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am I think of councils such as Hammersmith and Fulham, not sure whether I heard it right, but I believe that we which promise to protect the elderly and then hike up have just heard an announcement of a £1 billion fund. I their charges. That council’s leader has said: wonder why that was not announced in a statement to “To continue building and publicly investing in the ‘social rent’ the House. template…makes no sense.” I think of the Tory councils in London that want to Mr Speaker: Before I respond to the point of order, I knock down the homes of secure tenants and offer shall be happy to hear a statement or clarification from them insecure homes at a much higher rent, and of the the Minister, from whose lips I think the words came. threats to the future of secure council tenancies that the Minister for Housing has never denied. It is all there. Grant Shapps: The fund was announced in the Budget, Mr Speaker. If the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Yes, the country faces hard decisions as we recover Efford) was present last week, he will have heard the from the global recession, but none of that justifies an Chancellor of the Exchequer announce it at this Dispatch ideologically driven attack on the basic idea of decent Box. Let me clarify another point. My hon. Friend the local services provided by well-run councils. We all Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond) also know what the Tories are up to, but what are the Liberal mentioned that he had telephoned the office of the right Democrats doing supporting them? The answer is that hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen to check that they have sold their souls, and have forfeited the right to the letter had been received. I am very surprised by the call themselves a progressive alternative to the Tories. rather discourteous and disingenuous comments about my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. 4.27 pm The Minister for Housing (Grant Shapps): I beg to Mr Blunkett: Is this the £1 billion that the Government move an amendment, to leave out from “House” to the have just announced that they are withdrawing as a end of the Question and add: result of the abolition of the regional development “regrets the doubling of council tax under the last government, its agencies, which they promised before and after the cuts to services such as rubbish collections and its legacy of public election that they would abolish only if there was no debt; expresses concern that the prospect of paying for £70 billion support at local level? a year in debt interest represents a total of more than is currently raised from council tax, business rates, stamp duty and inheritance Grant Shapps: I will come in a moment to the RDAs tax combined; welcomes the new Government’s immediate support for frontline services by protecting £29 billion of formula grant, that were set up by Lord Prescott. In the meantime, I removing £1.2 billion of ring-fencing and abolishing red tape can tell the right hon. Gentleman that this is a new such as the Comprehensive Area Assessment; backs the support £1 billion—the regional development fund £1 billion for hard-working families and pensioners through a council tax announced in last week’s Budget and designed to help— 737 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 738

[Interruption.] Labour Members do not want to hear that did not emanate from Labour during the 13 years about this, but it is designed to help in exactly the kind in which it was in Government as a problem and are of constituencies that they have come here today to willing to attack it. complain are being underfunded. They do not want to know that this coalition Government are doing something Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Will to help those areas. That is the truth. the Minister give way? We live in grave financial times, with the previous Government bequeathing a scorched-earth policy. As Grant Shapps: I shall give way in a moment after Labour’s departing Chief Secretary declared, “I’m afraid making a little progress. there’s no money left. Good luck.” [Interruption.] They So the £6.2 billion immediate savings this year are the do not want to hear that either, but it was what the note priority to tackle the inherited £156 billion deficit. It is said, and it also happened to be true. worth saying it again—£156 billion. [Interruption.] They We inherited spending commitments funded by a do not want to hear it because the figures were in litany of IOUs scrawled on the back of fag packets and danger of bankrupting this country; of putting us into a toxic legacy of debt from an Administration who a Greek-style crash. But to hear the right hon. Member went on a spending spree with the nation’s credit card. for Southampton, Itchen today from the Dispatch Box, Our most immediate priority is therefore to reduce the one would not believe that he was speaking for the same nation’s chronic public spending deficit to pave the way party that sat on the Government Benches and took for economic recovery. this country to the edge of that fiscal position. Now with this fiscal challenge we also have an Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): The hon. opportunity. Our actions to rebalance the public finances Gentleman describes again this picture of deals scrawled give us a chance to decentralise power, to weaken the on the back of fag packets. Would he like to make a command-and-control apparatus of the central state. comment to my constituents in Wirral who work for Devolution is the solution; the centralised state the companies that spent a great deal of time working hand problem. We need to cut wasteful spending, but let us in glove with the RDA and the Government to protect put local councillors and local people back in the driving our local economy and have been thrown into disarray seat. by the policy being made on the hoof by the new Government? I will listen to anything the Minister has Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): On that very point, we to say that will help us protect our local economy, and I hear a lot about how we could have saved money from will be grateful for his comments. efficiency savings, and that is a laudable thing to talk Grant Shapps: I welcome the hon. Lady’s intervention. about, but the Lyons report in 2007 said that targets She was not here in the last Parliament, but had she and inspections inhibited councils’ ability to serve their been she might have read our Green Paper, which locality. We know that targets and inspections cost describes in detail our plans for the RDAs. Labour more than £2.5 million a year, so if Opposition Members Members seem to think that when there is a change of were so anxious to find efficiencies why did they not Government, policies should just roll on even if they start by stopping that ridiculous top-down inspection have not worked. The RDAs were a case in point of regime? policies that cost a lot of money and got us nowhere. Grant Shapps: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend The prospect of paying £70 billion in debt interest is for mentioning some of the top-down inspection regimes, of deep concern, but apparently not on the Opposition such as the comprehensive area assessment, a £39 million Benches, where it is as if the money has not run out, the programme responsible for—get this—wasting 151,000 days party is not over and we can just carry on spending of local government officers’ time each year, and for imaginary funds. That £70 billion in debt repayments is what purpose, what advantage, what great body of more money than the council tax, business rates, stamp knowledge that could somehow be used? The answer is duty and the inheritance tax collect put together. That that the previous Government did not know when the is the size of the deficit we are up against. So we need to money had run out and carried on spending it ad tighten our belts. Ministers are cutting their pay, and it infinitum. is also fair to ask local authorities to pay their part towards the £6.2 billion public sector savings required Chris Leslie: Will the right hon. Gentleman scrap the this year. Audit Commission? Will there be no audit or inspection? Hazel Blears: Does the right hon. Gentleman believe that it will help the nation’s finances to cut the future Grant Shapps: We certainly will have inspections and jobs fund and the working neighbourhoods fund and to a basic template. The question is: how much inspection throw more young people on the dole so that they will do we need? I invite any Opposition Member to explain not be paying tax and national insurance? Does he how spending 151,000 days of officer time answering a really think that that adds up to a credible economic comprehensive area assessment was of any use to local policy? residents. Opposition Members talk about localism, but they do not get it. They talk about the principles of Grant Shapps: Well, I heard with interest what the handing over power, but they do not understand that right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen had to say when—according to 2006 research—officers in town about some of the funds. The truth is that existing halls spend 80% of their time servicing the needs of commitments are being honoured and a new fund is Ministers and Whitehall and only 20% of their time going to be set up to pull together the many different looking after local residents, they no longer serve the streams that currently help people get back to work. It democratic values of local people. That is not localism; seems to me that again Labour Members see any change what we are describing today is localism. 739 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 740

[Grant Shapps] fallen during the recession under way again. Does he agree with the chairman of the Home Builders Federation, In these tough times it will be our goal to protect who said: those in the greatest need—local residents and, especially, “Cutting Kickstart money, that creates immediate benefits in struggling families and pensioners. Under Labour, council terms of local jobs and for the wider economy is a cut on tax more than doubled. We will work with local councils investment not waste. Public money invested through Kickstart to freeze council tax for a year and, if we can afford it, pulled in many more times that in private sector investment”? for another one. Scotland has done it, with band D council Is there not a false economy in the cuts that are going tax now £290 a year less than the comparative figure ahead, which put more homes in jeopardy and do not south of the border. We want that to happen in England, make sense to the business community? too. Grant Shapps: The right hon. Lady will share the Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): concern that I had at turning up at a Ministry and being The right hon. Gentleman just mentioned the need to told that the £1.5 billion that had been presented to the protect those most in need. Will he comment on the Building Britain’s Future fund exactly a year ago, in remarks by Blackpool’s Tory council leader, Peter Callow, July 2009 when programmes such as Kickstart were who said: announced, just did not exist. We are now having to do “We are one of the most deprived areas in the land and we what we can to support those important programmes. shouldn’t be singled out like this, I understand that some of the She can expect to hear further announcements on this leafy lanes of Surrey and places have got away with it, well that front. can’t be right”? Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): Grant Shapps: The hon. Lady will no doubt welcome If all the programmes that the Opposition are concerned the £1 billion fund for regional assistance. that we will cut were so valuable, why were so few houses built under the last Administration? Why are there 1 million people not in education, employment or Chris Leslie: New money? training—NEETs—in this country if the programmes were working so well? Grant Shapps: Which is new money and was announced last week. No doubt the hon. Lady in her next intervention Grant Shapps: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, not will welcome that money, which would presumably go least because of what happened in the debate on housing to areas such as that the one she describes. here just last week. The Opposition claim to be passionately interested in housing, but there was nobody at all on the Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): Opposition Benches then—not a single Opposition Member Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that that £1 billion turned up for a debate on a subject that they claim to is additional funding—on top of the money that would care about so passionately. already have been made available to RDAs and to local Perhaps the answer lies in the figures on housing. We councils in order to support regeneration in their areas? have only to look at the figures for house building last year, for example—fewer homes were built than during Grant Shapps: I may be living in a parallel universe, any peacetime period since 1924. It is not as if the but I and Government Members were here last week for top-down approach was working; the more the previous the Budget, when all that was described in a great deal Government tried to centralise, dictate and impose housing of detail, including in the Red Book, which explains on local communities, the fewer homes were built. That that the fund is new and comes out of the total spending is why we intend to turn their policy on its head and envelope. It is fairly straightforward. ensure that in future incentives drive house performance Let us make some progress. We will scrap Labour’s and house building in this country. plans for new bin taxes, which meant even higher tax bills for local families and harmed the environment by Mr Betts rose— encouraging more fly-tipping and more backyard burning. We need to go green, but we cannot have the bin bullies Grant Shapps: I give way to the Chair of the Communities and the town hall Taliban who seemed to look after and Local Government Committee. town halls before. Instead, we are going to embrace opt-in schemes, such as Windsor and Maidenhead’s Mr Betts: Will the Minister clearly explain what his recycle bank initiative, through which families are rewarded targets are for the number of social houses that should for recycling and doing the right thing. We will encourage be built in this country each year? How will the building people to do the right thing, rather than punish them of such housing be achieved? What policy mechanisms when they do not. will he use, and where is the funding to deliver the programme? Incentives can work for councils, too. Let us reward local authorities for driving economic performance in Grant Shapps: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. their area, and for building new homes. Incentives can We are not going to set targets because they did not work for councils in all sorts of ways. work. [Interruption.] There you go—they have heard it. We all remember the target of 3 million homes by 2020. Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): On the issue of Remember the former Prime Minister standing at this building new homes, I understand that one of the areas Dispatch Box and announcing that target? We all remember under threat is the Kickstart programme, which was to the 240,000 homes that were to be built every year. support private construction by getting sites that had What is the figure for house building this year? Probably 741 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 742 about 110,000 to 118,000—something in that region. to protect people and share out the burden of the very There is no point in announcing targets that do not difficult decisions that have to be made—decisions that happen; all that does is bust aspiration. Instead, we will were ducked by the Opposition when they were in take a practical approach in which communities are government. Labour Members could not outline one encouraged with powerful financial incentives to build penny of how they would have reduced the local government homes. Our matching of council tax revenues for a budget—not one single penny. I invite the right hon. six-year period will achieve a great deal of that. Member for Southampton, Itchen to come to the Dispatch Box if he now wants to explain where the cuts were Mr Slaughter rose— going to come from. Until Labour Members acknowledge that they had no answers and were not proposing Grant Shapps: I want to make a bit of progress, then I alternatives, they will not have earned the right to be shall give way again. able to lecture anybody about what should and should not be done by way of making these difficult cuts, We are going to drive economic growth through local because we have not heard anything about it from them. action and initiatives such as the incentive plan and by replacing the Lord Prescott’s and Lord Mandelson’s We have protected the £29 billion formula grant—the regional development agencies with locally led partnerships, main source of funding for front-line services such as based on natural economic areas—not arbitrary rubbish collections, street cleaning and libraries. Moreover, Government offices for the regions that happen to suit we have not cut any of the main Supporting People Ministers. We will also drive growth by giving councils budget, which is in excess of £1.6 billion, despite needing new powers to levy business rate discounts for local urgently to cut funds from this year. shops and firms, by finding practical ways to introduce automatic small business rate relief and by abolishing John Hemming: Does the right hon. Gentleman share Labour’s unfair ports tax, which threatened to harm the my mystification as to why Labour Members are fussing entire manufacturing sector in this country—at least about whether there is a cut of 1.08% or 1.1% given that the bit that the party had not already harmed through the real situation is that over the next five years we its economic policies. potentially face cuts of 25% in real terms, and we We are doing all we can to help local government should be planning and preparing for that now? under difficult and pressing circumstances. No local authority will face a reduction of more than 2% in any Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. revenue grant that has already been allocated. The simple truth is that Labour Members still have not understood the depth of the problems that they have Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): Why got us into. Until they acknowledge that and start to does the council in my constituency face a cut of 1.08%, address it themselves with some real plans, and identify whereas no Government Member’s local authority is where some of the money is coming from, nobody will facing cuts of anywhere near that? Is that an act of take seriously their complaining and calling of Opposition ideology or malice? Or is it that, as the Minister with day debates about this subject. responsibility for planning said, We will continue to remove the ring fences from “Those in greatest need ultimately bear the burden of paying non-school revenue and capital funding. This year, we off the debt”.—[Official Report, 10 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 450.]? have de-ring-fenced £1.2 billion, and we intend to go a lot further. This gives councils the extra flexibility they Grant Shapps: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman need to concentrate on local priorities and to protect for that, but district councils all over the place are these front-line services. We are also reducing the taking larger cuts. If the Opposition are now going to management burden imposed on local authorities from the spend their time looking at random distributions, trying centre, cutting down on undemocratic and unaccountable to pick out patterns and then playing them back, I am quangos, and putting local government front and centre afraid that that just demonstrates that they really have in meeting local residents’ needs. When we took over, not got it. They have not understood the financial crisis there were 27 different quangos relating to the Department in which they had taken this country right to the edge or for Communities and Local Government. Again, I invite appreciated the depth of the problems that they had the right hon. Gentleman to come to the Dispatch Box taken the country into. That is clearly demonstrated by and explain how he was going to hand power back to their input today. local people by removing even one of his 27 quangos. As with every profession, local authorities will need Andrew Percy: The Minister will recall that a few to take some difficult decisions about how to prioritise moments ago, when I tried to raise the issue of school their spending. Local authorities have already made funding, my concerns about deprived areas such as great strides in achieving efficiencies, but they need to those in Goole that I represent were laughed off with do more. There is still a lot more potential to gain some smugness by Labour Members. Can we have an through new practices—for example, shared services, assurance that unlike the situation under the previous joint working and smarter procurement. Perhaps most Government, who simply ignored the problem, pupils important, however, will be radical town hall who live in very deprived areas in Goole will not be transformation. We must be clear that councils will penalised for the simple reason that other parts of the need to build in improved productivity as a matter of East Riding are wealthier? course. They need to learn from the best commercial practices. Sainsbury’s does not go out and tell people Grant Shapps: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Of that good food costs more when it comes from Sainsbury’s, course, the pupil premium is designed to achieve precisely but that it costs less, and public services are going to that. We are absolutely doing everything we can to try have to do the same thing. In the public services, in 743 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 744

[Grant Shapps] and openness will deliver—it will mean that people can see what is going on inside government, both nationally future, we have to get more for less. I know that that is a and locally. concept that Labour Members struggle with, but it is the reality of the financial mess that they have left us in. Mr Slaughter: I wish the Secretary of State had bothered to come, partly because this is so incoherent Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): I am proud and we might had something a bit better but mainly that in Great Yarmouth our council, which faces a 2% because I wanted to pay him a compliment for proposing cut, has reacted by saying, “We can deal with this. We to cut a bit of town hall waste. He said at the weekend: realise the situation that the previous Government has “Councils should spend less time and money on weekly town left us with, and we’ve got to get more efficiencies.” hall Pravdas…our free press should not face state competition That is a good and positive move forward. In my view, from propaganda on the rates dressed up as local reporting”. having spent many years as a councillor and council My Conservative council spends £750,000 on just that leader, the best thing for our councils is to get rid of type of propaganda. When will the Government cut some of the ring-fencing and the tick-box culture that that, and in addition to consulting the councils themselves, wastes officers’ and members’ time and given them back when will they consult local people, MPs and newspapers the ability to make real decisions about real things about the problem? It is a disgrace. locally, which means they are more accountable and that our residents will care more about what they do. Does the Minister agree? Grant Shapps: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his particularly eloquent contribution. Local authorities spending their time publishing weekly newspapers, or Grant Shapps: I am most grateful to my hon. Friend, weekly Pravdas as the Secretary of State described who gives us an opportunity to talk about matters such them, is just not their role. We talk about front-line as the comprehensive area assessments, which somehow, services, supporting people, homelessness and priority through ticking boxes and using—[Interruption.] The programmes to ensure that the sick, elderly and vulnerable hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter) says are protected, but Opposition Members want to talk from a sedentary position that we have done all that, about local weekly Pravda newspapers published by but the truth is that £39 million was still being spent on local authorities. It simply is not the answer. What we that budget on the day we entered office. want to do is ensure that local authorities are engaged Rather than having a tick-box culture, in which town in front-line services that help their population, not halls are answerable to Ministers, there is a better way, services that rival the local newspapers. We want to and it is the one that my hon. Friend the Member for allow the local newspapers to operate without interference Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis) has identified—local from local authorities. people being the ones to whom officers are answerable, through the ballot box. That is a radical concept that Everyone knows that money is tight. Every strategy can be expanded much further by allowing councils, by that we employ nationally and locally should focus on the end of this year, to publish online details of all their getting more for less. Innovation and efficiency must be spending, tenders and contracts over £500. That will be king. The emergency Budget makes it clear that there proper transparency and empower a new army of armchair are challenging times ahead. We want to ensure that auditors to go through local authorities’ books and local government is fully engaged with the next spending help identify wasteful spending, helping to protect front-line review. In particular, we expect councils to be involved services. [Interruption.] I hear Opposition Members in the series of events over the summer to discuss and calling out, “Well, that will help.” As a matter of fact, debate various aspects of public spending. We will use we really do think that it will help in a dramatic way, the spending review to drive decentralisation across and I will explain why. local government and national Government. We are going to extend the idea to national Government Toby Perkins: The Minister has said a couple of times with a higher limit of £25,000, and this is how it will that councils will have to do more for less. As a member work. In my Department alone, openness and publishing of the best value and efficiency scrutiny panel on this stuff online would have avoided, for example, the Chesterfield borough council for the past seven years, I scandal of £134,000 being spent on 28 luxury socialist-red know just how hard our council and many others sofas by a Parisian designer, Ronan and Erwan Bouroullec, worked to produce the efficiencies demanded under which were built as part of new Labour’s—get this— Gershon. Can the Minister tell us of any council leaders efficiency initiative. That pretty much sums up its approach. who have not been trying to give more for less in the last Transparency would, I imagine, also have stopped the years of the Labour Government? scandal of my Department spending £73,000 on a serene green tranquillity room for stressed-out staff and Grant Shapps: I accept that the hon. Gentleman and Ministers to local authority leaders and councils throughout the “relax and refuel in a natural ebb and flow.” country work hard to do those things. However, sometimes Proper accountability would surely have stopped the just doing something in a closed situation is not enough £6,000-apiece deluxe chrome coffee machines fitted at and we have to invite the whole general public to take each of the white elephant regional fire control rooms, part. We need to publish the stuff online, make it fully which are completely empty, by the way. Come hell or transparent and let people see what is really going on. high water, we would at least have known in future that As I explained in the context of my Department’s officials would have had a nice cup of cappuccino even responsibilities, if that had been done, I do not believe as disaster struck and the phone system failed, as it that those tens of thousands—and even hundreds of famously does in those buildings. That is what transparency thousands—of pounds would have been wasted on 745 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 746 pointless projects. On a smaller scale, there will be they have now switched sides and gone into opposition, examples in town halls throughout the country of money they are making a big deal of this. I can assure the hon. being spent on unsustainable projects, which best value Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) that committees sometimes do not reach, but a large army of that statement will be made to the House from the armchair auditors will. It is called the general public; it Dispatch Box in due course. is called transparency, and it will work effectively. Claire Perry: I am fascinated by the disclosure about Chris Leslie: Will the Department also publish items the tranquillity room. I have had many people coming that cost £500, so that the position between local into my surgery recently who have been really struggling government and central Government is fair? with their household budgets and housing problems. The idea of a tranquillity room is quite entertaining, Grant Shapps: Central Government obviously have a but it is also deeply insulting to hard-working British large budget—[HON.MEMBERS: “Ah!”] They do have a people. How will the Minister use the tranquillity room? large budget, so the limit will initially be set at £25,000— What does he intend to do with it? [Interruption.] Opposition Members are making a great deal of noise, but each of the projects that I mentioned Grant Shapps: I think that it would be only right to a moment ago would have been captured under such a invite people to come and try out the tranquillity room. system. We would have known about the red sofas, the It was paid for with the hard-earned money of the tranquillity centre and all the adverse expenditure. That people outside the House, when the previous Government would have helped. One has to wonder at the Opposition— seemed to think that it was a good idea to spend after 13 years without such transparency and openness, hard-earned taxpayers’ money on building tranquillity when the coalition offers to open up government, they rooms and putting in expensive sofas. This is an indication just want us to go further. That is fantastic, but they of how they talked about helping the poor when they had 13 years in which to go much further, but they did were really helping themselves by refurbishing their not and they wasted taxpayers’ money. offices with bizarre and extraordinary furniture. The coalition agreement makes clear what to expect. The time has come to transfer power away from Westminster Gavin Barwell: Has my right hon. Friend been able to and Whitehall into the hands of communities and ascertain whether the room was given ministerial approval individuals. We will make rapid progress because we and, if so, which Minister gave that approval? have already announced several shake-ups of power. The move to a more democratic planning system will Grant Shapps: I cannot tell my hon. Friend how the sweep away arbitrary top-down targets and hated regional approval process used to work, but I can tell him that, in spatial strategies, introducing powerful financial incentives the new Department for Communities and Local to local people instead. Government, that kind of expenditure would never be The previous Housing Minister is no longer in the signed off without someone political taking the decision Chamber, but I am a fan of his blog. I note that this right from the outset. week he writes: We have announced that we will move away from the “DCLG ministers are changing the planning system.” wasteful inefficiency of central targets and towards He adds: incentives involving more carrot and much less stick. “Ours was too top-down”. Last week, we scrapped the comprehensive area assessment, Hon. Members can read that online—a road to Damascus saving the taxpayer £39 million. conversion from Labour, now in opposition. The new coalition intends to prove that Ministers can be localist Mr Blunkett: It will help us over the next five years if in government, just as we can in opposition. There will the right hon. Gentleman can give us an answer to this be no switch-around. question. Is he seriously suggesting that every sum over £5,000 spent in government will be individually signed Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): In off by a Government Minister? the spirit of transparency, will the Minister confirm that the £1 billion fund that he mentioned earlier is the Grant Shapps: No, I did not mention the figure of regional growth fund to fund regional capital projects £5,000, but I did say that decisions approaching anything in 2011-12 and 2012-13, to which the Red Book refers? like the levels of the £134,000 spent on Parisian-designed If so, the Red Book mentions no figures, but he has sofas would require sign-off—and they would not get gone a little further. Would he care to speculate on that sign-off, either. whether he will decide who gets the regional growth fund, or will he hand it over to local authorities to We have introduced a Bill to stop council restructuring determine their own regional capital projects? in Devon, Norfolk and Suffolk, which will save the taxpayer £40 million of unnecessary costs. This was a Grant Shapps: Yes, that is the same fund, and it was botched restructuring; even the accounting officer at mentioned to the House verbally, at the Dispatch Box, the DCLG had no confidence in it, and issued a letter of by the Chancellor on the day. No, I cannot confirm how direction to the former Secretary of State about its it will be divided up. Members would quite properly being carried out. There was no reason to spend that expect that to be announced in a statement to the £40 million, but the Labour Government did not believe House from the Dispatch Box, and they would not that the country was in a financial mess. They seemed to expect me to do that today, because today’s debate— miss that point entirely. [Interruption.] It is a bit rich of Labour Members to There is more to come. We will promote locally led express surprise. We had 13 years of spin and statements joint working, building not just on the Total Place on every breakfast TV sofa in the country but, now that pilots, but on innovations—such as joint chief executives— 747 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 748

[Grant Shapps] Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Did Advantage West Midlands not waste a lot of taxpayers’ money when being championed by many councils. In the Queen’s Ericsson was persuaded to go to Ansty business park—a Speech, we announced a localism Bill that will free local completely unnecessary move? government from central control and give voters more power over local government and over the way in which Mr Cunningham: The hon. Gentleman has his facts money is spent. As part of this, we will introduce a new wrong. It was Ericsson that wasted public money, because general power of competence for local authorities, so it misled everyone—including the Tory council in that they are free to give local communities exactly what Coventry—into thinking that it was there to stay. The they want. hon. Gentleman must not distort the facts. The public coffers are nearly empty, and the nation’s The Secretary of State has sent a circular out to local credit card is maxed out. Shadow Ministers are fighting authorities, but we want to know whether the Kings the wars of yesterday, trying to justify why their pet Hill and Keresley housing project will go ahead. I asked projects were notionally signed off by the Treasury, but the Minister to clarify that last week, and I was told that ignoring the huge elephant in the room, in the form of a Coventry council would be allowed to settle the matter. looming public debt of £1.4 trillion. But in these tough However, when the Tories were in opposition, they said times, we are defending the interests of families, pensioners, that one of the first things that they would do was small firms and the underprivileged. We are empowering cancel that project, because it was being built on the councils to put the front line first, and to make the right green belt—which the hon. Member for Rugby (Mark choices on how best to protect the vulnerable and the Pawsey) knows something about, as Warwick district needy in our society. We are putting councillors and the council is the planning authority and has been passing people in charge of going through the state books and the buck. highlighting waste and inefficiency, rather than relying If we are talking about the 1980s, let us remember on unelected and unaccountable quangos and regional that manufacturing in the west midlands was decimated, structures. There is a difference between this Government to say the least. In Coventry, we lost thousands of jobs and the last one: we trust people. That is something every week. Are we going back to that? That is what the that the centralising, nanny-state, interfering Labour Government’s proposals will mean. The Minister talked Government never did. about council house building being the lowest since the war, but I do not remember many council houses being Several hon. Members rose— built in Coventry in the 1980s. I certainly remember that council houses were sold off and not replaced. The Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. As the Minister has a lot of explaining to do there. House will see, this is a very popular debate. Mr Speaker The other area of concern is what will happen to the has imposed a 10-minute limit on speeches, but if Members voluntary sector especially and to the much vaunted do not take 10 minutes, more will get in. public sector, which the Government keep on about attacking. How much funding can the voluntary sector 5.5 pm expect, if funding to the public sector is reduced? As in the 1980s, the public sector will be the whipping boy for Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): I am the measures that the Government want to take. I could still trying to understand what the Minister has just see their strategy when they were in opposition. They said. It seems to me that he is applying the solutions of went on about gold-plated pensions and big salaries for the 1980s. I do not know where he was at the time, but chief executives. That is fair enough—we have to do some of us were in local government and on the receiving something about it—but it obscured and masked the end. I am sure that some of my colleagues will remember fact that many people in local government are on low how capital programmes and rent revenue accounts pay, and they are the people who will be attacked. I was were capped. The Minister talked about transparency, in contact with Coventry city council today. The real but I remind him that the Labour Government introduced impact, by the way, will not be known until October or the freedom of information legislation, so there are no November, because the Government themselves do not accolades for him there. When I was involved in local yet know which cuts they are going to inflict—they have government in the 1980s, we used to get a green memo—he not worked out the details—not only in Coventry but in mentioned Government interference—prodding us to the rest of the country. privatise all sorts of things, from public transport to The Government blame us for the economic crisis, public toilets. So we need no lessons from the people but I remember when it broke. The Conservatives thought over there. that we just needed to bail out Northern Rock and that I hope that the Minister will clarify the position on the crisis had just happened in this country, but it regional development agencies. What will happen to actually happened with Lehman Brothers in America. Advantage West Midlands? Many people will know How any British Government can control what goes on that it has been very important to the west midlands in the American economy defies logic. It was only later economy. In fact, only a couple of weeks ago I received that the Conservatives worked out a strategy. Incidentally, representations from small businesses in the area expressing the present Governor of the Bank of England went concern about the threat to abolish that organisation. along with the economic stimulus—the same man now Let us consider Ansty business park. When we created a advising the Government to go down the road of wholesale business park at Warwick university about 25 years ago, cuts. We had a programme to do that over the four we were criticised by the then Tory Government, but years, but theirs is a knee-jerk reaction. In other words, later on it became the greatest thing since sliced bread. they have panicked, they are not in command of the People in Coventry see the Ansty business park as economy and they do not have a strategy to get the preparation for the economic revival— country out of this situation. 749 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 750

This is a typical Tory ploy. In the ’80s, they used the last report was emphatic, and was swept aside. Latterly, Labour Government of the ’70s to try to justify some of there have been some gestures from various Secretaries their policies, but they missed something out. Before of State. With a great flourish, one Secretary of State that Labour Government of the ’70s, we had a Tory announced that the number of targets set by her Government. Do we remember the three-day week? Do Department would be diminished. The number had we remember the OPEC crisis when petrol prices went risen under her and her predecessors to well over 1,000. through the roof? The American economy had problems She was right; she did reduce the raw numbers. However, because the American public reacted to the prices at the much of that was offset because there was a combining petrol pump. We then inherited, as a minority Government, of targets, so they were still there, and there was increasing a previous Tory Government’s problems, and I predict auditing of decisions made under the new freedom that, in the future, we will be picking up the pieces once regulations. Although her Department tried, others did again for the damage that these people have done. not, of course, so the number of targets increased. 5.11 pm My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, along with his Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con): I always find Ministers, now have a unique opportunity, as the Minister that the shadow Secretary of State’s speeches display a has just said, to give local government back its freedom. convenient forgettery: he gets out his paint brush, forgets From the removal of regulations, a massive reduction in the damage that he and his predecessors did to local Government expenditure and the removal of constant government, comes up with a few colourful pieces and auditing will come enormous savings. From the point of ignores the fact that, time after time, the Communities view of the council tax payer, many of those savings and Local Government Committee told him and his may be quadrupled because it will be a case of reverse predecessors where they were going wrong—and now gearing. he has suddenly changed his tune. I hope that my right hon. Friend will be generous Under Labour, the local authorities central grant enough to consider a few thoughts. Most of us believe became less fair as the funding formula was progressively that Government and local government should be small manipulated to the disbenefit of London and the south-east. and efficient. To expand on one of the Minister’s comments, Many services, along with funding, were moved to the supermarket-type motto of “more, better, for less” regional authorities and quangos, capital receipts were is appropriate at this time. For local authorities to say centralised for Government selective redistribution, and that they are surprised about cuts is astonishing. They local government was crushed with inspections by most are not numerically dyslexic; they have been looking at Departments of State and by targets in their hundreds these; they know they are coming; they have been if not thousands. New scheme after new scheme was working towards them. brought forward and money applied to it, but it was allocated specifically, carefully and frequently politically In order to enable local authorities to respond, there by the Labour Government. must be a huge bonfire of regulations and inspections. Like it or lump it, the committee structure, which enabled The savings to local councils could amount to millions every councillor to have a say before decisions were upon millions of pounds each from that alone. The made, was removed, and a new system of executive reduction in the costs of the Audit Commission will be decisions inspected afterwards by committees was landed commensurate, as should the reduction of officials from on councils regardless of cost increases. Standards the Department. Among the restrictive legislation that committees and the standards quango were set up, again my right hon. Friend must remove should be the various costing money, for frequently frivolous complaints that incremental changes that made competitive tendering were easily dealt with under the previous regime. Central of the private sector for council functions non-competitive Government imposed rules and regulations on the private tendering. Local authorities should be encouraged to sector, making competing for local government functions divest themselves of unused or unwanted properties by utterly pointless, and the so-called best-value legislation being able to retain the capital receipts, at least in part, was imposed, further limiting local authority freedoms. for their own use. The business rate portion of Government grant should be separated from the actual Government Most of the centralising and manipulation was grant. introduced by the then Deputy Prime Minister, with his clear desire to make local authorities effectively direct Furthermore, I suggest that my right hon. Friend and agents of his Department. The effect on local councils’ his officials look at a slightly different approach to morale was disastrous, and many complained that although central funding. Education amounts to approximately they were local councils they were no longer local 60% of local government expenditure. Under the previous government. Incentives for lateral thinking to improve Government, that was predominantly funded directly services and cut costs were destroyed, and local authorities to schools, but through local education authorities. in London and the south-east lost grant funding as the With the move for more independence of state or local formula was changed three times. Even under the authority schools, it would be timely to stop the previous Conservatives, Surrey and places such as Wandsworth Government’s pretence and fund the schools directly. got among the lowest grants, but he came in and hit If that were the case, the slight adjustments for local them with three funding formula changes, the last of authorities could be effectively funded by the national which is notorious in Surrey. Under that change, it did business rate, distributed by a fair equalisation formula not lose just a few million; the year-on-year loss to and by the council tax, which councils should be allowed Surrey county council was £39 million. Event the Audit to set themselves without interference. That would mean Commission pointed out the grant funding bias. that local council tax payers—of course, they are almost Over the years, the local government Select Committee, always voters—would have a much more direct relationship in its various guises, has increasingly pointed out the with the local council in respect of its council tax and diminution of the freedom of local government. The services. 751 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 752

[Sir Paul Beresford] fact. We will soon find out both if the Conservative-Liberal Government have been correct and about the wisdom In addition, if council tax benefits were paid directly of these actions. to the recipient and estimated on a fairly applied standard It appears that the local government sector and workers spending assessment basis, to use an old phrase, there will be facing the worse situation for a generation as the would be a further incentive for these people to put Chancellor tries to cut spending just as the noble Baroness pressure on their council. By that I mean that if the Thatcher did but in half the time. That will mean brutal local authority set the council tax higher than had been cuts in the budgets of all Departments. The Chancellor estimated, those on benefits would have to pay more. is talking about 25% cuts across the board, but as we are Equally, where an efficient council sets a lower tax, the told that the education, health and defence budgets will benefit recipient would pocket the difference. get off relatively lightly, I strongly suspect that other Many Members want to speak, and the Minister has budgets, such as that for the Department for Communities talked about many things. He has to build much more and Local Government, will have to be cut by much on those things to produce a bonanza Bill that cuts more than a quarter. We will see what the real cost is to regulations. There is now a unique opportunity to turn these Departments. back what the previous Government did to mutilate, I urge caution. We need to be careful in how we damage and brutalise local government in this country. address the local government cuts. Many local agencies now work in very close partnership one with another, so a cut in one area may well be to the serious detriment of 5.19 pm activities in another. Budget cuts in local government Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): May I will not be in “silos”, as all agencies are now largely take this opportunity to say how pleasing it is to have linked up. We therefore need to look at the interactions not one but two Lancastrians as Deputy Speakers? between various services. It is easy to cut the aids and adaptations budgets for adult social services, but if the I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the result of cutting a £100 handrail for an elderly constituent Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I rent a is to have to pay thousands of pounds on a hip operation constituency office from Tameside council and have in the NHS, that will not have saved the public purse. parking permits from both Tameside and Stockport. We must not miss the bigger picture. If the cuts start I pay tribute to the work done by all councillors, to dismantle these working arrangements, service provision irrespective of party affiliation. Having served as a local will be back as it was in the 1980s: Department-based, councillor for 12 years before entering the House, I fully with no thinking outside the box and little joint thinking. understand how difficult the role is. It is often a thankless For example, interrupting good local management on task, yet to serve local communities in local government antisocial behaviour, family intervention and domestic is also a massive privilege and honour. I do not think we violence will have a real impact on the communities I do enough to recognise the work of those who serve in represent—on people who truly depend on services that local government. no one else will provide and that no one else is better I also want to place on record my tribute to Councillor placed to co-ordinate. Roy Oldham CBE, who served as leader of Tameside As I have said, the scale of the cuts poses a serious metropolitan borough council from 1980 until this year. challenge to local authorities’ ability to deliver services Those 30 years at the top made him the longest serving that meet the expectations of people—in my constituency, council leader in the country, and his achievement in especially people who live in Stockport and Tameside—over transforming the borough from sleepy backwater into the coming five years and beyond. The Tameside part of one of the leading metropolitan districts in the country— my constituency will be particularly affected. It has the best in the north-west according to the Audit been ranked as an area of high deprivation, the 56th most Commission—is a testament to his drive and vision to deprived local authority area in England. Already, the make the borough a leading council. Roy is currently changes to the benefits and tax credits will have a recovering from illness and I wish him well. I am sure disproportionate effect on Tameside residents due to the new council leader, Councillor Kieran Quinn, will the existing high levels of income deprivation, and may want to make his mark on the borough too, and build lead to even more people calling on council services in on the excellent achievements of the past few years. It their time of need. This will be happening at the same will be a tough job, not least because of the tightening time as further funding cuts to the council and its financial situation, but I am sure he will do his best for partners start to bite—a double whammy for the people the area and I have every confidence that Tameside will of Tameside and the people of Reddish, to whom I will continue to be at the forefront of local government. turn later in my remarks. The recent Budget was called the “unavoidable”Budget, Tameside had expected to receive some £23.5 million and some important choices were made in it that will of area-based grant funding in 2010-11. That has been impact heavily on local government. There was a certain reduced by £2.34 million—about 10%. Services will irony in the use of that term, however, as the report clearly be cut at a time when demand will inevitably rise, earlier this month from the new Office for Budget so Tameside is already anticipating and preparing for a Responsibility indicated that the previous Government’s number of hard choices over the coming years. The fiscal plans would have eliminated the bulk of the council has developed a medium-term financial strategy. structural deficit by 2015. So these cuts that go so deep It expects cuts of up to 10% a year for area-based grants so quickly may not make the economic sense that the and specific grants—about £5 million in total—on top Government would have us believe. Clearly, they have of cuts to formula grant funding and restrictions on decided to go further and faster, but these cuts seem council tax, with a possibility of reductions in capital more ideologically driven than based on sound economic funding as well. 753 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 754

There will also be an impact on voluntary and community This Government clearly have a new view of localism, sector grant funding, a sector which contributes significantly which does not take much account of local people. to the capacity to deliver improved outcomes through These cuts fail, as they break all promises not to balance community-based work. Activities to provide opportunities the books on the backs of the poorest, and they show to young people may have to be reduced, along with that the Government’s claims of fairness are pretty youth provision, which is non-statutory, in order to empty and do not seem to look much beyond the world ensure that work with vulnerable and looked-after children outside the comfortable home counties. is maintained. It is therefore crucial that the council and its partners be able to maintain their levels of investment, Several hon. Members rose— both grant and mainstream, in effective prevention Mr Deputy Speaker: I am sure that Members will work. This Government must be clear that local government wish to respect the conventions associated with maiden plays a vital role in delivering crucial services across speeches; I call Paul Uppal. communities and should be a spending priority, rather than its taking more than its fair share of the burden. 5.30 pm I am also extremely concerned about the knock-on implications for regeneration in my constituency. Excellent Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): Thank work has been done by the Denton South Partnership you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and may I belatedly congratulate in Haughton Green, one of the deprived parts of my you on your elevation and appointment? I also congratulate constituency.This has been a model of effective partnership all Members who have delivered their maiden speeches working, bringing together all the agencies such as the in this House. I have been privileged to listen to many council, the primary care trust, the police and local discussions and many maiden speeches, and I have housing associations. I pay tribute to the work of David waited patiently, deliberately not rushing to make this Howarth, the chair, and all the members of the partnership. speech—after all, in reality, I have probably been waiting However, such a proactive approach to solving problems for more than a quarter of a century to make this will go if all the partner agencies face the same budget speech. That long wait commenced during a particularly reductions, which will lead to massive disinvestment in inspiring lecture by one of my A-level politics tutors on the communities where help is needed most. a wet Wednesday afternoon, so a few weeks, and indeed a couple of hours, are a small price to pay. I turn briefly to the Stockport part of my constituency, where there is also a great deal of concern. Cuts of I have not traditionally been an individual who has £1.69 million to the area-based grant— subscribed to a fatalistic view of life, but I have found my scepticism tested by the fact that my majority of Toby Perkins: My hon. Friend is highlighting the 691 that has bought me to this great House is exactly extent to which the cuts, which would not have been the same as that of another young Conservative Member made under a Labour Government because of our of Parliament who won the seat of Wolverhampton commitment to supporting people in their efforts to get South West for the first time in 1950—one Enoch work, will be targeted at the most deprived people in Powell. I make that statement with my tongue firmly our communities. Does he agree that targeting areas in pressed against the inside of my cheek and an ironic which disadvantaged people are out of work is a particularly smile on my face. I also appeal to all Members of the cruel measure for this Government to take? House to take me to one side and proofread any of my speeches should I feel compelled in 18 years’ time to Andrew Gwynne: It is, and I agree fully with my hon. make a controversial speech at the Midland hotel. That Friend. Parts of my constituency are still trying to is unlikely to happen, primarily because the hotel is no recover from the previous Tory Government’s attack on longer there, but I have lived enough of a life to know those communities, despite the great work of the last that one should never say never—I ask the Hansard Labour Government, and that progress needs to be reporters to note that my tongue is now firmly affixed maintained. to the other side of my cheek. The area-based grant is finance used to help various services, such as those for deprived and vulnerable Am I here via the product of karma or kismet? I do children. What is the alternative to cuts in services such not know, but I do know that by uttering those words I as family intervention? If those services are cut locally, have probably created some confusion among those more children may be taken into care because there is who record our statements, as I have introduced some no early intervention to fix problems quickly, which Punjabi words into the rich texture of the records of would cost the taxpayer significantly more. It costs Hansard. I have to state that I felt honour bound to do approximately £24,000 a year to take a child into care. that as I am the first Sikh Member of Parliament to sit The cuts could well impact more harshly on less affluent on the Conservative Benches. areas of Stockport, such as Reddish. Liberal Democrat As is customary during these speeches, I would like to Stockport council does not do anything like enough for pay tribute to my predecessor, Rob Marris. During the its most deprived communities, including the Reddish last few weeks of the election campaign, although we wards. I am concerned that they will be an easy target were political adversaries we did manage to have many for the kind of cuts we now face. So there are a number convivial chats and conversations, and during those last of concerns for constituencies such as mine, because the few weeks I found Rob to be a man of his word and a Government’s announcements will hit a host of services thoroughly decent bloke. He was an assiduous consistency that affect local people. It is clear that the areas that will MP and will undoubtedly be a tough act to follow, but I be most affected are poorer areas in the cities and will endeavour to fill those extremely large shoes. metropolitan boroughs. Labour has a strong record of In terms of the Wolverhampton South West constituency, increasing funding for local authorities in those areas perhaps one of the most impressive sights to meet and using them to deliver national priorities by harnessing anyone coming in from the city centre is the Molineux the best locally. stadium, which is home to Wolverhampton Wanderers 755 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 756

[Paul Uppal] with various bodies, I have discovered that total inaction is universally perceived to have been the worst option. football club. I am delighted to say that I am a season Without going into the minutiae of the detail, the ticket holder and fan, and I am even more delighted by public and private sectors have essentially come together the fact that we stayed in the premiership this year. The in good faith but, over a period of time, either the seat is entirely urban and it is also home to the Express private sector has lost faith or the project has fallen &Starnewspaper, the country’s largest regional newspaper, away, as everybody feels that they are at a total impasse. which reaches more than 136,000 regular readers. One I feel that the reason for that is that, eventually, somebody thing that does stand out for the Express & Star is that, has to make a decision and ultimately take a risk. In the uniquely, it has more than nine editions, covering local past few years, “risk” has become a somewhat dirty areas across the west midlands and maintaining a word associated with young men wearing garish braces community base that is not just Wolverhampton-centric. and shouting colourful language across trading floors, leading ultimately to the likes of us picking up the bill The constituency is also home to the brewer Marston’s, for their recklessness. That is the point—in essence, I and only recently I was honoured to be present at the am talking about calculated risks and about people opening of its new visitors centre. I would heartily moving outside their comfort zone. recommend anybody visiting Wolverhampton, including fellow Members, to sample our fine local ale during a Perhaps I can illustrate my point more graphically by visit to the constituency. I could speak at length about reciting another conversation with a similar colleague the history of the city and its prominent attractions, but who has done a great deal of work on the role of young that would be to miss out the greatest strength and asset men in street gangs. I know I am veering away from the of Wolverhampton—its people. Wulfrunians are famed issue of health provision, but the subject of individual for a no-nonsense approach to life; they say it as it is, risk-taking is just as pertinent. My colleague spoke to approaching life with an open mind and refreshing many young men about their dreams and hopes and honesty. In many ways that attitude mirrors my own why they had eventually become gang members. One personal experiences of growing up in a Sikh family. It individual story jumped out more than the others. A is a Punjabi tradition to live life to the full and with group of teenagers would regularly meet at a park and “dhel”—that is a Punjabi word for a generous spirit and it happened that their central meeting point revolved courageous heart. That, in essence, sums up the vast around a set of gymnastic parallel bars. There was a majority of Wulfrunians. One will not find a city populated pecking order and young men would impress their peers by a more decent people, who always speak straight and, importantly, young women by showing off their from their soul. As my family always told me when I prowess on the bars. One day—almost inevitably— was growing up, “Real friends will tell you the truth. It somebody fell off and, because of the resultant scratches is acquaintances who will tell you what you want to and bruises, the local council felt honour bound to hear.” remove the bars after health and safety got involved. After a few years the youngsters had formed a gang and In Wolverhampton, I have spoken to representatives a pecking order became established, with antisocial of various bodies about health care in the city, and that behaviour becoming a badge of honour. is why I have chosen to make my maiden speech in this debate, which is essentially about funding. We have the Having been a young man once, I can vaguely remember Phoenix centre, a walk-in centre that offers a wide the desire and the engine that would drive a person to variety of treatments, along with the Gem centre, which seek acceptance and admiration from their friends and I passed every day during the general election campaign. to impress members of the opposite sex. Luckily for me, However, through my discussions with various individuals a sports field was my arena, but it comes back to that and numerous bodies I have uncovered a great deal of basic point: if we endeavour to eliminate risk, we emasculate frustration with the fact that for the last six years, under society and it appears that young men in particular feel the last Government, just under £100 million of private that acutely. To put this as bluntly as possible, in terms investment in health care provision in Wolverhampton of our public-private service providers we need to put had not been spent after discussion after discussion radical thinking and calculated risk taking and decision after procrastination. It would appear that after years making at the centre of provision. of waiting to spend this money, we now have a stalemate The motives of officers should not be just their and it seems likely that with the passage of time salaries and pension pot at the end of their careers. I am Wolverhampton and my constituents will have missed under no illusion that this will be easy, but I dare say out on more than £100 million of investment in health that governance of any sort over the next few years will care because of dithering, indecision and inaction. I am be challenging. I—like many Members, I suspect—am not interested in apportioning blame, but have chosen always interested in the discussion of ideas, but some to raise the matter as I feel passionately about it. The have said to me that that does not always happen in the issues raised by such inaction could provide guidance to Chamber with the new modern politics. legislators and executives both nationally and locally. I Forgive me if I have strayed on to controversial am stoical in my view that we cannot change what ground, but as I suggested earlier, straight talking and a happened yesterday, but we can change tomorrow. no-nonsense approach is the Wolverhampton way. In To get to the nub of the issue, Wolverhampton has that vein, I would make a plea for all Members to revisit been involved in a dialogue with a LIFTCo—a local the issue of postal voting fraud, which, I am sad to say, improvement finance trust company. A LIFTCo is appears to be alive and well in many of our metropolitan essentially a PFI initiative to push forward service-led areas. Since I was elected, I have been approached by initiatives to bring about radical change in primary and numerous individuals in my own constituency who have social care. We can talk long and hard about the pros spoken to me about the issue. In my case, it worked and cons of PFI initiatives, but, through my discussions against me; I would say to Opposition Members that 757 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 758 there might be cases where it will have worked against disagree fundamentally with the way the cuts have been them. In any event, we are all very much at a crossroads. targeted at funds that are themselves targeted at areas I can envisage a time soon when very easily and quickly of deprivation. They are cuts against deprived communities, we will all face an escalation of a fraudulent race here, and they are the sort of cuts that the Under-Secretary as either side endeavours to outdo the other. I hope that of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Opposition Members will trust my motives for wading Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell), would have into this area, as it damages us all in this House and been on his feet protesting about only a few weeks ago. damages our reputation as a country. I want to raise two concerns about where the Government It is all too easy to stereotype the motives of Members are headed—with their approach to housing and their as partisan, mischievous or surreptitious. As a child, I approach to the general cuts to local government that often faced brutal stereotyping on my daily journey to will be announced in the next few weeks. I did not get an school, but even more painful was the pigeonholing answer earlier from the Minister for Housing about inflicted on me on my first day in a new primary school: housing targets: he said that the Government do not I was placed in a remedial class for a few years because have any. I did not get an answer about likely numbers, the natural assumption was that I could not speak how that area will be funded or what the funding English. I say that to illustrate that we are almost all mechanisms will be. I have a real worry regarding the guilty of occasionally judging a book by its cover. So comments of Liberal Democrats about the last Government when the Conservatives are castigated for being uncaring not building enough houses. I have some sympathy with over the next few years, I ask hon. Members to remember those sentiments because I think that although we did that I am somebody’s son, father, brother, husband, brilliantly on the Decent Homes programme, we did not cousin and friend and that in their eyes one could not build enough social houses to rent. That needs to be find a person further removed from that caricature. rectified, but does any Lib Dem in the House seriously I thank hon. Members for their patience and indulgence believe that this Government will do better when they in letting me speak and I hope they will forgive me if I have no idea how that will be achieved? That is complete have troubled any sensibilities. This great House is nonsense. nothing if not a reflection of the individual stories of its The problem is that people are going to be much Members, and I hope that by adding my perspective I more careful about committing themselves to buying a have added to the strength of its foundations and the house as we head towards a situation in which spending breadth of debate. will be reined in, people will be fearful of losing their 5.40 pm job, wages will fall and benefits will be cut. The likelihood is that the housing market will stagnate, at best, in the Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): Let me next few months. Whether a double-dip recession and begin by congratulating the hon. Member for the economy going down will produce a slowing down Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) on his excellent of the housing market, or whether a slowing down of maiden speech. He certainly covered the attributes and the housing market will produce a double-dip recession, aspects of his constituency. I congratulate him on the is a chicken-and-egg argument. The likelihood is that special place that he has achieved in parliamentary economic activity will stall and the housing market will history and in the history of the Conservative party. It stall. was good to hear his very generous comments about his predecessor, Rob Marris, who was respected for his If fewer people feel able to commit to buying a home, honesty, integrity and friendship on the Labour side of there will be more pressure on social renting and local the House. I think that is appreciated. authority waiting lists, so what have the Government done? The first thing they have done is to suspend the I was just having a brief discussion with my right Kickstart programme and schemes whereby local authorities hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and were going to build houses directly for the first time in a Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) and my hon. Friend the long time. Labour and the Lib Dems welcomed that Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) approach when it was introduced, but the Lib Dems are about the good things that come out of Wolverhampton. now cutting and stopping it. That is the reality of the Unfortunately, the Wolverhampton Wanderers managed situation. If local authorities are no longer allowed to to sell to Sheffield Wednesday one Leon Clarke, whom build, what are the alternatives? I have not heard any. the hon. Gentleman might remember. Leon Clarke We have been promised an announcement at some stage finally scored a goal in the last game of the season, in the future. when we were struggling to avoid relegation. In celebrating his wonderful goal, he ran to the advertising hoardings We have also been told that the reforms to the housing and kicked them, breaking his toe, and was then substituted. revenue account have been put on hold. That was one of I do not think it is true that everything that comes out the few opportunities for local authorities to return to of Wolverhampton is necessarily first class and admirable. council house building. If they could depend on a given Let me move on to the debate. The Opposition have rental stream for the future, they could perhaps use made it very clear that we have major reservations prudential borrowing for that purpose. about the immediate impact of the cuts and about the The housing association building model depends on proposals for the medium term. We believe it is unnecessary cross-subsidies from the selling of homes. If the private for the cuts to come immediately and that they go too sector housing market is stalled, those cross-subsidies far in the immediate term. We also believe that they are will not be available. We do not know what will happen unfair in a number of respects. Bringing in cuts part to social housing, because there is complete silence way through the year has forced local councils to make from the Government. All we know is that people who the cuts that are available to them, which are not are in social housing will have a tougher time with the necessarily the cuts they would make if they had a bit housing benefit rules, and some may be forced out of more time to plan and bring them in properly. We also their houses into private rented accommodation. 759 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 760

Caroline Flint: What does my hon. Friend make of Minister does not agree with that, he must explain why the idea of providing help for people who wish to move my figures are wrong. If such facilities as adults’ and to another part of the country to find work? None of us children’s services are protected from the 30% cut in the would oppose such an arrangement, but given the absence grant, the impact on other services will be dramatic, of any policies to create more affordable housing especially in areas that receive a large amount of opportunities around the country, how exactly would it Government support because of deprivation. work? George Hollingbery: I look forward to working with Mr Betts: Obviously it would be up to the Government the hon. Gentleman on the Select Committee. It seems to make any such announcement, but the idea that from his eloquent speech this afternoon that I have a people should move from communities in the north, great deal to learn. I have to say, however, that I am a where there may be enough housing, to find jobs in the little tired of Opposition Members targeting the “Tory south, where there is a particularly chronic housing shires”, as if that were a pejorative term. We rightly shortage, beggars belief. What would people on waiting receive less Government support for our citizens than lists in the south think of someone who arrived there more deprived boroughs, and I accept and understand and said, “I will have that house as a matter of priority, that. However, the spending that comes to us is for our because I am moving down here to work”? The policy more deprived citizens, and cuts to our budgets, which has not been thought through. have not been topped up as much over recent years as If any Member on the other side of the House can those in others places, are very important to us. We may tell me where the mechanism and the funds will come be wealthier parts of the country, but the people we are from to enable new social rented housing to be built, I looking after are not. ask him or her to stand up and do so. So far, I have Mr Betts: In the end, the Government grant reflects heard nothing from either the Conservatives or the the amount of deprivation in an area. Clearly, there are Liberal Democrats. There are no funds for council deprived people even in affluent areas, but it is about house building—they have been stalled—and the funds the total amount of deprivation. Certainly other for housing association building are limited. Given the communities have more deprivation and that is why reduction in cross-subsidy from the selling of homes, they get more Government funding and they will be any money that the Homes and Communities Agency harder hit. That is the point that I am making. may have to fund housing association accommodation Right at the end of the Minister’s speech we got a will produce fewer houses. Fewer social houses will be vague mention of Total Place. It is important that it is built as a result of this Government’s policies, and I am developed, but it should not be seen as a panacea. Total aware of no commitment from Ministers to rectify the Place is at the pilot stage; it has produced some very position. interesting results and ideas about how public money What will the Government do about the overall funding can be spent better across Departments. The Government situation? We have heard about 25% cuts, and also have to allow local authorities to take the lead on these about protection for education. Presumably Departments matters. The DCLG must get a grip of its colleagues in other than those dealing with schools and defence will other Departments and let go of the controls that exist, take a bigger hit. We are assuming that councils will but that will not deliver overnight savings of 25%. We receive at least 30%, but the arrangement is not fair, will not achieve 25% or 30% cuts by efficiency savings; because we will have to protect adult social services and there will be real damage to public services. We must children’s services. What is left? Libraries, parks, recreation, recognise that, and the Government must explain and street cleaning, the environment and refuse collection. justify the cuts. It is no use the Secretary of State’s telling local authorities The Secretary of State says that his three priorities how to collect their refuse. Will they have the money to are localism, localism and localism, but let us take what pay for one refuse collection a week? the Minister said about refuse collection and people in Then we must consider the differing impacts on various town halls dictating things. Where is the dictation? The councils. I opposed individual council tax caps when Secretary of State in his new spirit of localism is telling our Government introduced them, and refused to vote every council in this country how it must empty the for them, but let us assume that they are imposed now. bins. It is absolute nonsense. How can we have any trust At least authorities will receive the same amount of or faith in a Government who talk about localism and money from council tax, but there will be cuts in their setting local councils free when that is one of their first Government grant. Councils with the most deprivation policy announcements? in their areas receive a bigger amount of grant than It is clear that the Budget package was regressive. those with the least deprivation, which receive more of That has been shown by the Institute for Fiscal Studies. their money from council tax. Council tax is to be There was an interesting report in the newspapers at the frozen but Government grant is to be cut by 25%, which weekend of an investigation into the totality of the means that the councils that will suffer the biggest cuts Government cuts by Tim Horton and Howard Reed on in their overall budgets are those with the most deprivation. behalf of the Fabian society. It showed that when one That is unfair, and we fundamentally oppose it. The takes not merely the tax changes but the housing benefit Liberal Democrats used to oppose it as well, and it is changes and the spending cuts, including local government time that one or two Members on the Government spending cuts, the poorest 10% of our community will Benches, including the Minister, started to explain how have their spending power cut by six times as much as they will make the system fair. the richest 10%. That is the impact of the Government’s The fact is that the most disadvantaged councils and policy. The Budget was not fair and the cuts that have communities will be hit hardest by the 25% cuts in been made so far to local council budgets are not fair. Government funding. In their areas, library, recreation The deficit has truly been cut on the backs of the and street cleaning budgets will be cut in half. If the poorest in our communities. 761 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 762

5.52 pm The hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) explained that we could protect adults’ and children’s John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I services. I am sure he is aware that, of the budget of congratulate the hon. Member for Wolverhampton South metropolitan authorities such as Birmingham and Sheffield, West (Paul Uppal) on his excellent maiden speech. I am something like two thirds is spent on adult and children’s pleased that other hon. Members share my concern services. The schools grant goes directly to the schools. I about how easy the Labour party made it to defraud the am not sure that it will be possible to protect those electoral process. Obviously, people know in Birmingham services. Part of this debate has been the question, “Do how the Labour party stole 4,000 people’s votes in we have to do this?” The answer is obviously yes. Bordesley Green ward and that 273 votes were arrested Another part of the debate is how we make cuts in an in Aston ward. equitable manner. I must explain where I come from. I was a city councillor for 18 years. I believe that local government Angela Smith: In Sheffield, the Lib-Dem council has can do a lot for the communities that it serves. Local followed a policy of redistributing money from deprived councillors from all parties have at the heart of their areas to the richer areas of the city. That pattern is now objectives to serve the whole community, so it is sad being replicated nationally. Is that fair? that we find ourselves in this situation. Let us recognise that. Part of the situation is an international problem; John Hemming: I cannot comment on the detail of part of it is an exacerbation of the international problem what has happened in Sheffield. I agree with the argument by the failure of the Labour party. Like Germany, we that deprivation has to be taken into account. There is should have entered this difficult situation in surplus. no question about that. The idea of the pupil premium Instead, we have a deficit akin to that of Greece. Labour is that the money follows the individual rather than Members fail to recognise that there was a sovereign catchment areas from the national census. One of the debt crisis in April across Europe. It drove up interest difficulties with many of the calculations is that they rates on sovereign debt for the countries with the bigger have been done not on an individual basis but on a problems—the PIIGS: Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece categorised basis. and Spain. Those countries are having to make perhaps The hon. Member for Sheffield South East makes a more extreme adjustments to their public sector spending good point that if we cut the Government grant and do than we are. not look at the aggregate local government spend, that It is not unreasonable to say that the circumstances has an effect. There is an issue to be looked at there. now are different from those in, say, March, and that we People have asked whether we should cut 25% here, have to approach things in a different way. Six billion 26% there, 23% there and 27% somewhere else or whether, pounds is a lot of money, but it is a relatively small given that we face such a severe problem, the same proportion of the deficit of £150 billion. Cuts of 25% in figure should be cut everywhere on a formulaic basis. I real terms are a lot, but 1% is a movement in the right am quite tempted by the latter argument. I think that direction. It is not a massive shift, but it is sufficient to that method was used in Sweden, which faced a serious reduce the interest rates paid on Government debt. By problem. It had the same sort of deficit and it went doing that, we do not have to make cuts as great as the through the process of getting rid of it. Labour party would have done had it continued with its strategy, which I believe would have been derailed in Chris Leslie: It took 10 years. any event. Regardless of what we would like to do, we are driven John Hemming: One has to make judgments on the down a route of making very serious economies. I do time scale based on the effect within the markets. We are not think that people have fully recognised that. We had not talking about paying off the debt over five years. a debate earlier about 1.08% cuts as opposed to 1.1%. There will still be net borrowing in the fifth year. That pales into insignificance when we consider that we have to find 25% cuts in real terms, even over five years. Alison McGovern: Will the hon. Gentleman comment We also have to recognise that it takes time to reorganise on how effective we will be in paying back the deficit, things. making these cuts in-year and cutting programmes to which commitments had already been made? Surely The Opposition spokesman complained about that is waste. Birmingham not spending all the money it had. Birmingham was well aware that financial difficulties John Hemming: First, there needs to be an understanding were coming down the track and that spending all the of terms, because I heard the phrase, “Paying back the money, as the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the deficit.” However, the deficit is the forecast difference Labour party did and then told us that we had no between income and expenditure in the financial year, money, was not the right strategy. It is worth keeping the debt is the amount of money that the country as a some few millions in the cocoa tin so that when we face whole has borrowed and there is often a lot of confusion the difficulties after the general election we do not end between the two figures. This year, if we borrow another in such a mess that we say, “All the money’s gone.” £150 billion, that will be added to the debt, and next Birmingham made an initial announcement of year, if we borrow some more, that too will be added to £12 million savings. It is probably more like £20 million. the debt. Although we are talking about reducing the Those figures can be worked out quite straightforwardly. debt during this Parliament as a proportion of gross They pale into insignificance when compared with what domestic product, our financial strategy does not talk has to be saved over five years—£250 million to £300 million. about paying back the debt in cash terms. In fact, at the That has to be planned for now. end of this Parliament we will end up with a higher level 763 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 764

[John Hemming] The point that the hon. Member for Sheffield South East made about adults’ and children’s services was very of debt, so in comparison with Sweden we cannot pay it important. In Birmingham we use the brighter futures back. We would like to do so, but we cannot do things programme, and there are ways of working more closely that quickly. with the people whom we support in communities, and We have to make people confident that the country is of working with mutual bodies to try to ensure that solvent. The country could be liquid at this stage without services are provided. There have been problems with any great difficulty, but we have to make people confident assessment systems in the past. The simple approach of that it is solvent and capable of paying back the debt so just changing the priority on assessment did not result that the interest is paid. We are not paying back the in any savings, because off the back of that all the deficit, however. The deficit is the amount borrowed assessments were changed. There are serious problems, each year. [Interruption.] I have another four minutes and the Opposition should recognise that they are and am quite happy to explain to the Labour party the responsible for them. They should try to be part of the basics of finance, because there is a lot of confusion solution rather than the problem. about debt and deficit. “Deficit” is the amount of 6.4 pm money borrowed each year on a net basis—[Interruption.] I shall get through to Opposition Members at some Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): I congratulate stage. the hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) on his maiden speech, which he delivered with Alison McGovern: I really do understand the difference grace and a sense of humour. I am delighted that he is between debt and deficit, but will the hon. Gentleman the first Sikh Conservative Member and wish him the explain how the waste of cutting programmes in-year greatest of success. Grace and a sense of humour might will help to reduce the deficit? well be qualities that will stand him in good stead in the coming months. I also congratulate you on taking up John Hemming: That will reduce the deficit because your position, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have no doubt we will spend and, therefore, have to borrow less money that you will be a great champion of us Back Benchers. this year. That is not complicated. If we spend less When I came to this debate I thought, “Local government money, we do not have to borrow as much, because the finance? It’s going to be bland, techie, full of references money that we spend has to be borrowed on the gilts to area-based grant, formula grant, specific grants, ratios market. It would be nice if the reduction were done and numbers,” but I have been pleasantly surprised, more cost-effectively at times, but £6 billion is not so because the debate has been lively and, on occasions, great in comparison with the overall deficit. It is appalling combative. That is quite right, because it shows how for local authorities to pretend that they did not know much all of us care about our local authorities and how that cuts were coming down the track, that the country important the services are to the people whom we had a major financial problem and that they had to do represent. We must never forget that, behind all the something. There will be difficulties, but Total Place is technical jargon that we sometimes hear, we are talking part of the solution rather than the problem, and there about people who are struggling to bring up their is no question but that we have to do something. children; people who are often trying to hang on to a In the past I have explained how, through various job; people who are sometimes caring for their elderly regulations, the people who go round and wash people’s parents, with the tremendous stress that that puts them feet are different from those who go round and cut their under; and people who are looking constantly for work toenails, because they have to have different qualifications. in this difficult economic climate. That is not an efficient way of providing public services. Under this Tory-Liberal Democrat Government—I If, through Total Place, the same person can go round refuse to call it a coalition, because it is what it is, a and wash people’s feet and cut their toenails, that will Tory-Liberal Democrat Government—the prospects look be more cost-effective and involve less travel time— extremely worrying. We have already had £6 billion of [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Nottingham East cuts, but the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Chris Leslie) should make an intervention if he wants (John Hemming) said that that is not a great deal of to speak. money and does not know what we are all worried Chris Leslie: Did the hon. Gentleman mention in his about. Well, I can tell him this: to my local authority it manifesto that he would cut so much money from his is a great deal of money. It is significant, but I have no local authority area? doubt that further bad news is on its way, and that tremendous cuts will be made in the autumn. If they are John Hemming: Interestingly, we did not ring-fence signified by the same unfairness and north-south divide anything in our manifesto. We were clear that there was that we have already seen, Opposition Members will a severe financial problem and spending cuts would have a great deal to worry about. [Interruption.] Iam have to be found. The Labour party revealed so little in delighted to welcome the Secretary of State, who has its budgets and concealed most of the figures and just taken up his seat on the Treasury Bench. I trust that budget cuts, so it was difficult to put all the figures he has hurried back from Bradford, and at the end of together, but Members will find that, when I explained my speech I shall make a couple of remarks in which he the situation in debates during the general election, I might take a personal interest. made it clear that we faced serious problems. If the The Deputy Prime Minister once said that he wanted Opposition are going to have such a row about what is a to see deep and savage cuts, and then he rowed back minor point compared with the overall magnitude of from that tremendously. However, he is about to have his the difficulty, I do not know what will happen over the wish fulfilled, and that is a bleak prospect. He also said: next few years. There are some real problems to face, “There will be no return to the kind of cuts we saw in the and we need to maintain services. Thatcherite 1980s”; 765 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 766

“We’re not going to allow a great north-south divide to reappear”; Hazel Blears: We would have made cuts because of and, most interestingly of all, that the deficit; we have been absolutely straightforward about that. However, we would not have taken an extra “the coalition will ensure that the cuts are fair and we will protect the poorest and the most vulnerable.” £40 billion out of the economy while the recovery was fragile. Wanting to get rid of the deficit totally in the He is wrong on all counts. He will face not only the space of one Parliament is reckless and damaging. We wrath of his enraged constituents in Sheffield, quite will see the effects in each of our communities in the rightly given his decision on Sheffield Forgemasters, but months and years to come. the anger of families throughout the country who will The one thing that I think we would have protected feel the brunt of the cuts that are made in local government are the programmes to get people back to work. If we services. get people back to work, they will pay tax and national The Minister for Housing, the right hon. Member for insurance and we will not pay out for them in benefits. Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), who opened the debate, That is basic common sense. Cutting the future jobs claimed that the Government were essentially about fund and the working neighbourhoods fund, and making fairness, and we heard about them wanting to hard-wire sure that the young people involved face the dole, is fairness into the country’s DNA. Let us straight away totally the wrong approach. end that myth about fairness. Salford still has high We have said that there should be no return to the levels of deprivation, but we are going to lose 1.1% of 1980s. I remember that, in the 1980s, two of my wards our budget, and Salford is of course Labour-controlled. in Salford had 50% male unemployment—half the men If we look at the different impact of the cuts on were out of work. There was 70% youth unemployment. neighbouring Trafford, which is Tory-controlled, we see That sounds Dickensian now; it sounds like 100 years just how fair those cuts are. ago, but it was not. It was only in the 1980s, as a result Compared with Trafford, Salford has double the of that last Tory recession. There is no way in the world number of people on housing benefit and council tax that we Labour Members want to go back to those benefit; 3,000 more unemployed people; average earnings days. that are £40 a week less; and almost double the number In Salford, we were also eagerly awaiting a Kickstart of children in workless households. So, how is it fair for bus service. That sounds like a small affair, but it would the coalition to reduce Salford’s budget by 1.1% compared have linked the whole of the outer part of Salford with with a cut of just 0.6% in Trafford? How is it fair that MediaCity and Salford Quays. There are fantastic Salford loses £3.5 million and Trafford just £1.5 million? opportunities in MediaCity for getting new jobs in the That cannot be fair, because we in Salford have made creative and digital industries. We need to have public considerable progress since 1997. We have seen a huge transport, so that people in our outlying areas can take fall in unemployment throughout our area, but people advantage of those new jobs. That bus service is now are still looking for jobs, and we need to get them back under threat as a result of the cuts. Does it not make to work. We will not do that, however, by cutting the sense to fund a bus service to enable people to access the council’s funding to tackle worklessness. The working jobs on offer, instead of asking—or even forcing—them neighbourhoods fund—cut. The future jobs fund—cut. to move home? That is simple, basic common sense, but That is short-sighted, damaging and will crush the the provision is going to be cut. hopes of many young people in our communities. We have seen cuts of £600 million in the housing programme, £300 million of that on the market renewal Angela Smith: Will my right hon. Friend comment on pathfinder programmes—all are targeted at low-demand the fact that the working neighbourhood fund areas areas in the north of England. Again, we are seeing the account for 71% of the reductions in incapacity benefit Thatcherite cuts and the north-south divide, with a claimants since 2004? disproportionate effect on northern cities. We are also likely to see damaging cuts to the police services. If there are going to be 25% cuts—at the Home Office, for Hazel Blears: My hon. Friend has made the extremely example—that will involve about 4,000 police community important point that despite what some Government support officers. The Minister is a Greater Manchester Members have said, the working neighbourhood fund Member of Parliament. I should like to hear from him is a long-term programme that is beginning to get just what effect the cuts will have on the number of results. We are seeing from the evaluation that it works PCSOs in Greater Manchester; as I am sure he will in an intensive, neighbourhood-focused way and is getting know, PCSOs are hugely valued by the community. people from some of the most difficult cases of As the Secretary of State knows, I am always a intergenerational unemployment back into work. What constructive politician. I should like to say a word or do we see now? We see a Government who profess to two about the Total Place programme, which I set up want to reform the welfare system and get people back when I was Secretary of State. It is not simply about into work cutting the very programmes that can succeed squeezing out efficiencies—yes, it is about bringing in our communities. back-office services together, having call centres, not having 10 personnel departments and not duplicating Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): Perhaps I all our services, but it is also about much more than misheard, but I thought the shadow Secretary of State that. It is about integrating services, redesigning the said earlier that if his Government had been returned, whole way in which public services work, bringing there would have been £40 billion of cuts from their side together the budgets of policing, health, education, of the House. Would any of the schemes that the right regeneration and economic development and saying to hon. Lady has just mentioned have been affected, or a local area, “That’s your total budget. What are your would other schemes, on which people also rely, have priorities? What do you want to get out of that investment?” been cut instead? The local area then has the freedom to decide. 767 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 768

[Hazel Blears] 6.17 pm

In Cumbria, total public expenditure on all those George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): I offer my services is about £6 billion. That is a lot of money by congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for anybody’s reckoning, and I genuinely believe that if Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal), whose eloquence there is imagination and creativity about public service was wonderful to hear. I am delighted to have been in reform, we can make some cuts and big savings without the Chamber for his maiden speech. necessarily affecting the front-line services on which all The motion today is full of regrets and objections. It our people depend. Today I found out from the Library harks back to the programmes of the previous Government that the figure in Greater Manchester is £22 billion. If and makes veiled demands for the reinstatement of we bring together health, education and policing in spending, but the context is an unprecedented deficit of Greater Manchester, we will see that we often deal with £156 billion, bequeathed to the coalition Government the same families with multiple problems, each relating by the Labour party. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor to those public services. and many of his Front-Bench colleagues have spent several of the past few days rehearsing the reasons why When I was policing Minister and responsible for we need to make savings. They have talked about the antisocial behaviour, we brought in the family intervention need to rebalance the economy, restructure our finances projects. We were spending £250,000 on each of the and grow the private sector. families involved; multiple interventions were not really changing their behaviour. When we got one worker with The position in which we find ourselves is wholly sufficient clout in the system to get health, education unsustainable. As many as 30% of the work force in and policing all working together, the families cost us some areas of our country work for the Government. In about £30,000. We called the worker a “muscular social 2015-16, social security and tax credit bills are projected worker”—and I can tell Members that they had to be to be £222 billion—that is, £3,580 for every man, woman pretty muscular. Doing that saved money, and 80% of and child in this country. Debt interest payments alone the families changed their behaviour sufficiently for will rise to nearly 10% of all Government spending in them no longer to face eviction for antisocial behaviour. the same period. Can it be any surprise at all that The initiative saved money, was commonsensical and it international markets have been spooked and that until worked. last Tuesday, our share price—in the form of the price of sterling—was falling away on international markets? I urge the Government not to look at Total Place as simply an administrative, efficiency measure; it is actually Do Labour Members really think that there could about fundamental service redesign. The Department not have been a debt crisis here? I assure them that there for Communities and Local Government will need to could have. If credit spreads on UK Treasury stocks press every other part of the Government to get on had started to move out, that would have been an board. We have all tried our best, but Government unmitigated disaster for all of us—every penny borrowed Departments build empires and take power back to would have begun to cost more and more. themselves. If we simply have cuts across the board That is the context of the coalition Government’s without using our intellects and imaginations, we will proposals to make savings of £6.22 billion this year, not make the progress that we want. in year, of which £1.165 billion is to come from local The Secretary of State has said that his priorities are government. The question is whether this is a fair localism, localism and localism. What we have seen proportion for local government to shoulder, and the today has given the lie to that. There has been no simple answer must be yes. Local government represents consultation with local government about the cuts. There about a quarter of all UK Government spending, and has been no transparency; we do not know where the reductions proposed are about 20% of spending, so £500 million of cuts are going to fall. There has been no merely in straight proportional terms, this is a fair involvement of local people. The Secretary of State’s amount for local government to shoulder. promise has proved about as meaningful as the Liberal Of course, as we must all admit, any in-year cuts are Democrat pledge on VAT. He has a long way to go. very difficult to find; particularly those of us who have The cuts are a bit like those of the 1980s, as they are been in local government will understand that. With targeted on the poorest. There is at least one other budgets already set, it is a serious challenge to row consistency. When the Secretary of State was leader of back. However, the proposals make it clear that huge Bradford city council, he was known—perhaps not efforts have been made to protect front-line services, entirely affectionately—as “the beast of Bradford”. and they make it easier for local councils to prioritise Teachers, caretakers, maintenance workers, crèche and the programmes they feel are most important to their nursery staff, social workers and council officers all lost local communities. Including guarantees for funding for their jobs. His ambition was to cut £50 million from the schools, Sure Start and other programmes, no council council budget and turn it into a holding company that will see its revenue grants cut by more than 2%, and no met two or three times a year when the contracts would region by more than 1%. be handed out. Under the control of the right hon. Formula grant totalling £29 billion has been protected, Gentleman, Bradford city council was described as an thus directly supporting front-line services as used by example of Thatcherism at its most red-blooded. I our constituents. Some previously ring-fenced grants wonder whether he told the people of Bradford this have been freed up for authorities to spend as they see morning what he had in store for them. Heaven knows fit. This reduction, from 10.6% to 7.7%, represents a what he has in store for us, but we Labour Members will welcome first step along the road to phasing out ring-fencing protect the poorest and most vulnerable, who depend altogether. I recognise, at this point in my remarks, that on our council services. We will have no return to the I am now going down the technical, dry, percentage Thatcherite 1980s. route that we were warned about a moment ago. The 769 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 770

Government have committed to freezing council tax for lot of gathering and managing, but it never once contributed at least one year, and will seek to do so in the following to a single change in a management decision or any year, in co-operation with local authorities. improvement in services. The real point about nearly all Looking at the motion before us, it is difficult to those figures is that they were never used for anything accept its argument that this programme other than to tick boxes. We collected the data, we sent “fails to meet this test of fairness”. it in, and the box was ticked. On a similar basis, I very much welcome the commitment to abolish the Standards It seems to me that every effort has been made to ensure Board for England. Never has an organisation been so that these cuts have as little impact as possible on abused for political and personal rivalries as this council tax payers and, of course, on recipients of cumbersome and bureaucratic quango. I, for one, will services. More than half the savings come as reductions not mourn its passing—nor, I expect, will many other in revenue grants, but in total this represents two thirds people. of 1% of total revenue funding. Surely no one would suggest that that should be impossible for councils to Finally, I would like to address the ideas involved in find. The balance comes in reductions in capital grants, the Total Place initiative. I strongly believe that innovative about half of which are specifically allocated. local council officers and deliverers of local services are A number of those savings will seem non-core to already more than capable of delivering changes such many authorities. In my experience, LABGI—the local as those envisaged in Total Place. In southern Hampshire, authority business growth incentives scheme—is regarded we have PUSH—the partnership for urban south by many local authorities as free pocket money. It has Hampshire—about which I had words with the shadow done very little to incentivise the building of new businesses, Secretary of State earlier, and the Integra arrangement certainly in the area that I come from. I also believe that for waste recycling. Only last week, I had a meeting the housing and planning delivery grant has done little with John Bonney, Hampshire’s chief fire officer. He to increase the rate of building of houses and, in any supports the ambulance service with community responder event, current market conditions dictate that there is units that can often respond much faster than ambulance little that local authorities can do to influence completions services, and he has saved more lives that way than he at this stage. Even in more difficult areas, such as manages to save even through fire prevention. A huge reductions in funding for the Department for Education amount can be done through initiatives such as Total and for Supporting People, the changes are targeted at Place, and that requires the breaking down of silos that non-core spending. was referred to a few moments ago. The motion asks us to condemn My problem with Total Place is that the documents that back it up are of such byzantine complexity that I “the failure of the Secretary of State to tell the House or local authorities where £504 million of cuts…will fall”. cannot find my way through them. The practitioner’s guide is so full of flow charts, extraordinary diagrams I believe that the figure of £504 million is derived from and management speak that I, as somebody with an the excellent Library note on this issue. An avid reader MBA from a decent school in the United States, struggled of standard note SN/SG/5573 will have seen this text on to make head or tail of it. I therefore say this to the page 4: Secretary of State: let us not lose the principle of Total “Of the remaining grants, it was not possible to make allocations Place, but please let us not follow the terrible bureaucratic to individual authorities as, in most cases, the allocations have yet to be finalised”. nonsense that appears to have been emerging as an end part of the process. It further says, on the same page: “Section 4 of this note, reproduced from Annex C of the We all regret that cuts have to be made in local additional paper, explains the precise changes made to each grant government spending at this time. However, these balanced and why, in some cases, it has not been possible to allocate the proposals make those cuts in as fair a way as possible, grant money to individual local authorities”. across services in as balanced a way as possible, and I recommend to Labour Members the detailed explanations without hitting front-line services more than is necessary. on pages 9 to 13. I commend them to the House. One smaller area of direct savings that I particularly welcome is the abolition of comprehensive area assessments. 6.27 pm Having been involved in the “Baby Brother” version applied to district councils, I can personally attest to the Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): May I, too, uselessness and extraordinarily intrusive nature of these congratulate the hon. Member for Wolverhampton South Big Brother-style information-gathering exercises. As West (Paul Uppal) on a very thoughtful and witty the portfolio holder for performance management on maiden speech? Winchester city council, I was responsible for the production It is with no pleasure that I stand here today to talk of much of the data required, almost none of which about the impact of the coalition Government’s cuts on helped us to perform better or to manage anything my constituency. Like many others who have already better. spoken, I fully recognise the need to reduce the deficit, I have two examples that are particular favourites, but the cuts that have been forced on my constituents in one of which I will share with the House. It concerns the past few weeks are in no way fair or well thought the average time taken to re-let a council house. We had out; in fact, the reverse is true. The cuts to local government a number of council dwellings that were extremely hard are patently unfair. They run the risk of damaging our to let, and we worked at that imaginatively and finally fragile economic recovery and, put simply, they are too began to let them reasonably productively. However, much, too soon. our performance got considerably worse, because it was My local authority, the London borough of Lewisham, based on an average of the number of days taken to has already had its budget cut by £3.1 million for this re-let a council house. That particular statistic took a year. London Councils suggests that the capital will 771 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 772

[Heidi Alexander] announced in May. In October, of course, we have the spending review to look forward to. Will he allow the lose £355 million in the same period. Of the 15 boroughs same thing to happen then? in London to suffer the largest overall reductions in The Chancellor has already indicated that virtually their area-based grants, 13 are Labour-controlled authorities all Departments will be expected to make 25% cuts over in places such as Newham, Hackney and Haringey—proof, the next four years. If that is passed directly on to local if anyone needed it, that these cuts will hit the poorest government, the consequences will be stark. Yes, savings parts of London hardest. have to be made and parts of the public sector have to In Lewisham, more than £500,000 has been slashed work closer together, but please let us listen to what from the Connexions service that provides careers advice councils up and down the country are telling us. Let us to young people, £75,000 has been taken away from recognise that some budgets, especially in inner-city projects set up to tackle teenage pregnancy, and £425,000 authorities, already face massive cost pressures—adult has been lost from business support and enterprise social care, environmental services and child protection development services—not to mention the axing of the to name but three. £135,000 grant that enabled the council to provide free Ensuring that the streets are swept regularly and that swimming for children and pensioners. These are cuts the bins and recycling are collected on time is the least forced on Lewisham’s Labour council by the Tory-Lib that the public expect from their council. Ensuring that Dem Government. children can grow up in a safe and secure environment These cuts do not make sense. Take the £425,000 of should never be put at risk because of money, and cuts to LABGI. Under the previous Government, the providing dignity to our older citizens is the least that local authority business growth incentives scheme did 21st-century Britain should expect, but in the light of exactly what it said on the tin—it provided money to 25% cuts those things cannot be taken for granted. reward growth in the economy. In Lewisham, this money Adult social care is probably one of the biggest was vital. I know that my experience of how it was used challenges facing local authorities. Excluding money is very different from that of the hon. Member for spent on schools, nearly £1 in every £3 of council Meon Valley (George Hollingbery), but I found that in money is spent on it, the vast majority of which is spent Lewisham it made a real difference. on the elderly. In the next 10 years, the number of Despite being one of the most populous inner London people living beyond 85 is expected to increase by boroughs, Lewisham has the third smallest business 25% in London. In the home counties, it is expected to base in the capital. Roughly 70% of Lewisham residents increase by 100% in the same period. How we finance who work leave the borough every day to do so, and care packages for the elderly has to be addressed, not by more than a third of the work force are employed in the scaremongering about death taxes and the like but by public sector, the highest proportion in London. having a grown-up, sensible debate about the options. Last week the Chancellor spoke of an emergent My nan recently passed away after three years in a private sector, with new jobs and companies springing nursing home. She sold her house to pay for her care, up to replace those lost in the public sector. He announced using her modest savings as well. My parents did not incentives for companies to set up outside London, and begrudge the use of her money to pay for her care, nor today we have heard more about the regional development did I. She was looked after in a way that I would have fund. However, what about the parts of this capital city wanted at the end of her life, and that was all that was that need a bit of extra help? What about the parts of important. What I do begrudge is the fact that the London that will be hit hardest by job losses in public system is not fair. My parents did not play the system to services? shift the cost of her care on to the state, but others do. It is local councils up and down the country that, year in In Lambeth, Southwark, Lewisham and Croydon, and year out, have to deal with the implications of the 185,000 people work in the public sector, 30,000 more unfair system that is already straining under the escalating than the public sector work force of Tyne and Wear. In costs associated with demographic change. an era of public service retrenchment, where will the new jobs come from? LABGI could have provided some As others have said, we must not consider local stimulus, and my fear for Lewisham is that the public government in isolation from other public services. Under sector will not magically emerge to fill the jobs gap left the previous Government, Total Place explored how to by what will be a decimated public service. deliver better public services for less. However, as was said earlier, it was not about slicing great big chunks out Let us be clear: the impact of cuts in local government of existing budgets but rather about doing things differently. will cost jobs. The first swing of the axe has already The Government’s Back Benchers constantly bray about meant job losses at Lewisham council, but the impact of the Labour Government and what Labour would have the cuts to local government will stretch well beyond the done to reduce the deficit had it got back in. I accept town hall. Many private companies depend on public that Total Place would not have provided immediate sector contracts, and as those dry up, so too will the answers, but I believe that in the longer term, we can jobs. Some 35% of Lewisham council’s money is spent transform our public services by working closer together in the private sector. As the cuts start to bite, the across organisational boundaries rather than by directing amount of money spent with private companies will money off into an ever-increasing number of silos. fall. Finally, I ask the Minister how he would go about What worries me most about the package of cuts, explaining to front-line social care staff that 30% will though, is what it says about the approach that the lose their jobs because the private sector has shrunk coalition will take to local government over its whole nationally—by much less than that, it has to be said. term of office. The Secretary of State has allowed local The state should shrink, but why should it shoulder government to shoulder nearly 20% of all the cuts such a high proportion of the burden? The new Tory-Liberal 773 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 774

Government are going beyond Thatcherism in their Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): I am fascinated determination to scale back the state. They claim to be by the hon. Gentleman’s history lesson, but I must doing it in the name of cutting the deficit and building a point out that a Conservative Government—the Thatcher big society. Call me cynical, but it seems to me that it Government, I think—introduced regional offices and has much more to do with ideology than anything else. regionalisation.

6.35 pm James Morris: Under the previous Government, that regionalisation became an embedded policy. It was James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): unaccountable, undemocratic and served no purpose in I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for economic development or improving local government’s Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) on his fine accountability. maiden speech. Mr Jones rose— I know that Opposition Members want to fight the battles of the 1980s, and it is important to set this James Morris: I will not give way again. debate in its historical context. As all hon. Members Despite attempts by Labour Ministers in the Department will know, successive Governments have centralised power for Communities and Local Government to get traction to themselves over the past 50 years. We live in one of on the localist agenda, there was no commitment to it the most centralised countries in the developed world in from the top. The Prime Minister and other Cabinet terms of the relative powers and funding of central and members simply had no trust in local government or local government. Over the past 30 years there have communities and were philosophically unable to let go been several reviews of those powers, going back to the and let local government get on with its job. Layfield and Lyons inquiries. In the last Parliament Institutional complexity goes to the heart of the there was the Communities and Local Government relationship between central Government and local Select Committee report on the current state of central-local government in this country. In the past two decades, relations, so a lot of blood has been spilled in the debate particularly the past 13 years, it has been characterised about the financing and funding of local government by excessive, top-down, performance management culture. over the past three decades. There has been a lot of Recent figures show that the annual cost of regulating philosophical inquiry but very little action. The current local government from Whitehall was estimated at more economic and fiscal crisis provides a unique opportunity than £2.5 billion. The distorting effects of that top-down for those of us who have been banging the drum for performance culture could be considerably greater on decentralisation and localism over the past two to three the shape and management of public services in this years. That is why I welcome the coalition Government’s country. commitment to a fundamental review of local government The right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel finance. Blears) elevated the debate with her discussion of Total In 1890, 23% of local government revenue came from Place. I agree that the recent Total Place pilots revealed central grants, with the rest coming from local taxation. the true cost of not only compliance but public spending As we stand here today, that position has been almost flows in local areas. We certainly need to build on that. completely reversed. The central point of today’s debate, Her example of Greater Manchester was compelling which has revolved around cuts and the 1980s, is that, and shows that, once we get a grip on and an understanding as we all agree, we have rising demand from the public of the total public expenditure that flows through an for services. We also have rising expectations from citizens area, the implications for the shape and potential reform and users of the services provided by local government, of public services, and the relationship between local and a public perception that local government is accountable government, the health service, the police and other for the delivery of those services. However, as hon. aspects of delivering public services locally, are great. Members have pointed out, local politicians control We need to build on that. I am therefore grateful to the democratically only 5% of total local expenditure, with right hon. Lady because her contribution elevated a myriad other organisations spending the rest. As many debate that had been characterised by a rather knee-jerk Members have said, we have a unique opportunity reaction to every single item of the cuts. If we are truly today to rethink some of the assumptions on which the to start reforming the relationship between local government powers, functions and funding of local government are and other public services, we need to identify the precise based. public spending flows through different areas. The Opposition talk as though the idea of cuts in The performance management culture, which other local government spending were an invention of the hon. Members have discussed, needs to be stopped. I coalition, but if we look back at the Budget of 2008-09, therefore greatly welcome the Secretary of State’s removing we see that the previous Government were already the comprehensive area assessment. That performance contemplating local government spending cuts in excess management culture, which has dominated local of 20% over four years. There is a considerable mismatch government in the past 13 years, needs to be replaced by between the last Government’s rhetoric and their reality. an age of innovation, spurred by the fiscal context in The first half of the previous Government’s time in which we live. That is why I am keen for the coalition office was characterised by what I would call a Prescottian Government to press ahead with the work on the Total regionalisation—the creation of a great deal of institutional Place pilots. The fiscal position demands that we ask complexity and an unaccountable regional tier of fundamental and difficult questions about local government that served little or no purpose. The second government’s role in providing local services. half of the previous Government’s time in office—the Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr Denham) Cleveland) (Lab): Given that the average budgetary cuts played a part in that—was spent in an attempt to for local authorities are 0.7%, how can a 1.2% cut for a unravel the mistakes of the first half. borough of mine, Redcar and Cleveland council, with 775 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 776

[Tom Blenkinsop] In Merseyside, the future jobs fund helped 2,800 people find work. The impact of that cannot be underestimated. some of the poorest rural wards, and a cut of 1.3%—the The employment picture in Merseyside, including Wirral, sixth highest in the UK—for Middlesbrough local authority, has historically been fragile. It was important that the with some of the poorest urban wards, be justified? Government stepped in during the downturn to help How can innovation be introduced equitably across protect our position. local authorities if the budgetary cuts in some areas are double those in others? Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): Would the hon. Lady like to comment on my research in my constituency, James Morris: As other hon. Members have pointed which found that the future jobs fund provides many out, we have to deal with the fiscal situation. Even if people with short-term activities, but few long-term there had been a new Labour Government, local jobs afterwards? government would have to find considerable savings Alison McGovern: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his and efficiencies to drive innovation. intervention, and I would like to comment on it. It is Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con): In my constituency, too early to say, but I can comment from my own unemployment trebled in just over two years under the experience of meeting people—young people, especially— previous Labour Government. Businesses and households who have gained work through the future jobs fund. in my constituency had to tighten their belts. They have They told me that it was vital to keep their CV consistent had to make substantial savings in their business incomes over time, and that, although the job might have been and their business and household expenditure. If I told short term or perhaps not in the sector they wanted to them that they had to reduce just 1% of their household go into eventually, it gave them good, work-based experience budget, they would think that that was getting off that they could put on their CV. That could help them lightly. to find work, perhaps in a different sector, once we came out of the downturn. I cannot emphasise enough James Morris: My hon. Friend is right. The disciplines how important that continuity is. It was so important in of the private sector are valuable and, in difficult times, places such as Wirral, and in Merseyside and the north-west we must be spurred on our way by looking innovatively generally, that the Government stepped in and helped at how we deliver services. We should not be afraid. to protect our employment picture. I shall say more Some hon. Members were derisive about the idea of a about that in a moment. If we also consider the cutting limited local authority, but it is perfectly valid to view of the working neighbourhoods fund, which was doing local authorities as commissioners of services, not a great deal to address the really deep-rooted problems necessarily providers of all of them. We should consider of unemployment in my part of the world, protecting innovative relationships between local government, social employment through local government in Wirral starts enterprise and the voluntary sector, and innovative ways to look a lot more difficult. to protect vulnerable people through relationships with In a wider sense, we shall feel the impact of the social enterprise and the voluntary sector. regional development agencies being abolished in Opposition Members also made derisive comments the emergency Budget. It is interesting to note that the about putting information in the public domain. An Government seem to be all over the shop when it comes open and transparent information-sharing culture for to RDAs. Perhaps the Minister would like to comment local government and the public sector is precisely one on the observations that have been made about listening of the ways in which we will drive innovation, reduce to the views of local business, local authorities and cost and continue to deliver excellent public services. perhaps local Members of Parliament on the importance There is no contradiction between those things. of RDAs. The Budget has abolished them, however, It is important that regional quangos, operating as and that will cause great difficulty in my area. agents of central Government, do not dictate to us. We The local authority serving my constituents in Wirral have heard little about democratic accountability and has done important work on apprenticeships. The local people in the debate. We must ensure that we Government have said that they are keen to support revert to the idea that funds that are controlled locally apprenticeships, and that is fantastic. We all agree—brilliant! are spent in a way that is democratically accountable to Let us get on with it! I do not see, however, how the the people. I am sure that my constituents in Halesowen local government cuts are going to help Wirral. We were and Rowley Regis would look forward to that. at the forefront in providing the Wirral apprenticeships We have the opportunity to decentralise power and scheme, which worked alongside the private sector to simplify the institutional complexity so that we can increase the number of apprenticeships. The cuts will truly reconnect local government with 21st century citizens. cast a shadow over the local authority officers who were 6.48 pm working on that programme. I do not believe that the cuts will help to reduce the deficit over this economic Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): I welcome cycle. I think that they will put people on the dole, you to the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker. which will increase the burden on the state. That is I want to comment on two aspects of local government incredibly unfortunate. cuts that will affect the residents I represent in Wirral. I cannot claim to have as much experience of local Mr Kevan Jones: Does my hon. Friend agree that a government as some hon. Members, but I served as a misapprehension is being peddled—that making cuts in local councillor for four years, which taught me a great the public sector will have no effect on the private deal about the impact that the cuts will have. I would sector? For example, in local government in the north-east, like to bring that experience to the debate. I want to talk £16 billion has been taken out of the county of Durham. about employment in Wirral, our sense of place and the That will directly affect not only suppliers to the county effect of the cuts on our localities. council but future building projects. 777 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 778

Alison McGovern: I could not agree more. If Conservative The Under-Secretary of State for Communities and and Liberal Democrat Members do not agree with my Local Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove hon. Friend and me, they are welcome to come and (Andrew Stunell), has spoken about removing layers of meet any of my constituents who run small businesses government, as though it were possible simply to cut that have been helped by Invest Wirral or the regional away pieces of the work being done by regional development development agency, or who have found apprentices agencies or local authorities, and to hand the money through the Wirral apprenticeships scheme, and to ask over to someone else in the expectation that the work them their views on working with the local authority, would still be done. My experience of local authorities and on working alongside the public sector so that the might be limited, but I believe that to be unrealistic. The public and private sectors can work together to address regeneration practices that local authorities have developed unemployment. That is the reality that we have seen should be prized and used, and their proactive work over the past 13 years. with RDAs should not be overturned overnight in order to remove a layer of government. That is phraseology Richard Harrington: What should we cut, then? for the sake of it, and I do not think that it will help our country to develop economically. Alison McGovern: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman Andrew Gwynne: My hon. Friend is making an excellent asked me that, because there has been a misapprehension case for regional development agencies. One of the that Labour had no plans when we were in government, important roles of the RDAs was to put in place and that we did not set any of them out. That is all very regional programmes of investment for major transport convenient, but the proposals were in our March Budget. schemes. Does she think a region such as the north-west There was a great deal of discussion about efficiencies, would be able to put together a major programme of about what we would have done with the future jobs transport improvements if it were left to the individual fund and the working neighbourhoods fund, and about local authorities from Cumbria down to Crewe? how we would have looked at those funding programmes. All the detail is in our March Budget. My problem with Alison McGovern: It would not be able to do it. the proposals in last week’s Budget is not that we have Travel-to-work distances are a problem in Wirral— to make cuts or that we have to reduce the deficit; it is compared with, say, south-east England—and we simply the timing. do not have adequate connectivity to centres of employment such as Manchester, Warrington and the north Wales I want to talk about place shaping, and about the coast. The RDA was doing fantastic work in addressing things that make Wirral a great place to live. I have that connectivity problem, working hand in hand with spoken before about the importance of sport, the arts local authorities. I do not think that the Government and culture to who we are in Wirral. The cutting of the fully understand those practices. free swimming programme will not help the Oval sports Certain ideologies in the Government are driving the centre in my constituency to be successful. The cutting cuts. The first is that less government is better. Conservative of free school meals will not help Grove Street primary and Liberal Democrat Members might say that, but I school to carry on its great work on increasing food believe—please forgive the truism—that better government sustainability and nutrition. Getting rid of the libraries is better. This is not the time for the state to withdraw modernisation fund will certainly not help Wirral to entirely. Secondly, the Government believe that pure bring our libraries up to the standard that my constituents deficit reduction is all that matters, and that reducing expect. the deficit will itself drive growth if we demonstrate to The cuts could, of course, help to reduce the deficit—I the City and the markets that we are being tough. I do do not disagree with that at all—and there are certain not think that there is any evidence for that. I am a great efficiencies that we might need to look at. My argument believer in evidence-based policy making, and I would is that we are talking about marginal amounts. Cutting like to see some evidence for that. the libraries modernisation fund will not have a massive impact on reducing the deficit. The thing that will Gavin Barwell: The hon. Lady asks for evidence: a reduce the deficit is getting people back into employment. report from Goldman Sachs looks at every fiscal correction If we cut the deficit at the expense of all the things that in major world economies since 1975 and shows that people have come to rely on, we shall see a hollowing-out those based on reductions in spending work and actually of town centres, and the retreat of the Government boost growth. from supporting people in the things that they want to Alison McGovern: I always look carefully at reports do in their lives. I do not think that that would be worth from the likes of Goldman Sachs, PWC and others. One while. The impact of the cuts on employment and on thing that being a local councillor taught me was never the things in our communities that we hold dear will be to believe at first glance what the consultants say. However, very grave in Wirral. I will certainly look into the report that the hon. Gentleman It is worth mentioning the differential impact of the mentions. I have an open mind. cuts. Wirral will be hit a lot harder than those in nearby The Government want us to believe that there is no Cheshire, or in Oxfordshire, who will not feel the same alternative. I have mentioned already that Labour’s impact at all. For the past 13 years, the Labour Government Budget in March detailed much that we could do to made great strides towards resetting the economy. People find efficiencies and talked about many of the things no longer had to leave Merseyside to get a job. We have that we have heard from the Government. The question done great work on that, and it needed to continue. I is not about reducing the deficit: it is about the timing fear that this withdrawal of the state from our area will and the manner in which it is done. I can only hope that result in our sliding back into the problems we had my words today will make the Government realise some before. The Government’s proposals represent a withdrawal of the impact that their actions will have on my constituents of activist government. in Wirral. 779 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 780

7pm Westfield, as well as the largest secure trading estate in Europe in the Pensnett estate, along with dozens of Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con): Thank you, Madam smaller trading estates employing many thousands of Deputy Speaker, for calling me to make my maiden people in small and medium-sized businesses. speech, and I congratulate you on your new position. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for The businesses of Dudley South are the backbone of Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) on his excellent the British economy and typically employ no more than maiden speech earlier. a dozen people each. It is the creativity and ingenuity of so many of my constituents—making, designing, building Today is an Opposition day, so there are even more and fabricating myriad goods—that is so important to Labour Members than usual on the Opposition Benches. the viability of the British economy. I come from a I am therefore more grateful than colleagues who made business background and can see all around my their maiden speeches in earlier debates that it is a constituency that the entrepreneurial spirit of local tradition of the House to listen to a maiden speech people is undimmed by 13 years of red tape, bureaucracy without interruption or intervention. I am also pleased and increased taxation. to see several fellow black country Members. I am incredibly proud to be black country born and bred. In Many families in Dudley South are football households. fact, I could not be more proud of the area I have The vast majority of my residents support either the always called home. Baggies—West Bromwich Albion, for those who do not know—or Wolves, as I do. In fact, I went to my first As the new Member for Dudley South, I thank my game at Molineux when we were in the old fourth predecessor, Ian Pearson, for his service to my constituency division, and three of the four stands were then crumbling and its residents. From the moment that I was selected wrecks. Many of my constituents know me as a in September 2007, Mr Pearson was always courteous businessman from a well-known local company, towards me—so courteous that in February this year he headquartered literally in the shadows of the Hawthorns. announced he would not contest the general election However, for those constituents who are not Albion against me. Mr Pearson was elected in a by-election in fans, I should add that the business also employs people December 1994 in Dudley West, and went on to hold in Kingswinford. several ministerial posts between 2002 and 2010. If I may say so, Graham Postles fought a valiant campaign Not only am I proud of my constituency and my for the Conservatives in 1994, but so much in politics is area, I am proud of my country. I am fortunate to have down to timing, and Dudley West was Tony Blair’s first travelled extensively, but no matter how exotic or by-election as leader of the Labour party. It was therefore cosmopolitan the destination I have always yearned for the first significant victory of the new Labour era, when England. Part of that is the people. The people of my Labour Members declared that they were the political borough are decent people who strive to do the right wing of the British people. As they left the country on thing by society and, most importantly, by their families. the verge of bankruptcy, that claim now has a hollow As they told me during the general election, they get ring. frustrated when they see others ahead of them who have not “done the right thing”. Their sense of fairness was I also wish to pay tribute to the former Conservative seriously challenged by the last Government. I am Member for Dudley West, Dr John Blackburn, who pleased to see this coalition Government restoring that sadly died following a heart attack in the Palace of sense of fairness and balance while addressing the scale Westminster in October 1994. I never had the pleasure of the deficit and debts bequeathed to us. That sense of of meeting John, but I know that he was widely admired fairness has been severely tested over the last 13 years as by his constituents and even by his political foes. He was we have seen neighbouring Sandwell metropolitan borough a hard-working local MP, and I intend to conduct council receiving far more per head from Whitehall myself during my time in this Chamber very much in than Dudley metropolitan borough council. That massive the same manner. John’s widow, Marjorie, is a supporter disparity cannot be fair, and my constituents have also to this day and has been extremely kind to me during expressed their unhappiness in large numbers about my time as the candidate in her late husband’s old many of the local government funded quangos with constituency. questionable track records of productivity and efficiency, If I may, I wish to pay tribute to the late former and a democratic deficit, when my constituents struggle Member for Coventry South-West, John Butcher, or to make ends meet and pay their council and personal Butch as I knew him. If I won my seat, Butch and I were tax bills. due to have dinner to celebrate and to discuss what he I was born in 1978 under James Callaghan, but I am a called the pitfalls of being an MP. Sadly, we never had child of Thatcher. I was honoured to receive letters the opportunity to dine together in this place. from the former Prime Minister both during and after Dudley South lies between Birmingham and the election, and they now hang proudly on my wall. Wolverhampton on the western fringe of the west midlands Baroness Thatcher truly is a guiding inspiration. She conurbation. We local people are fiercely proud of comprehensively proved that one person can make a Dudley’s own distinctive identity and heritage. The positive difference. My political interest began at the age constituency is situated to the west of Dudley town of 14, when I wrote to the Express and Star, still the centre and largely consists of residential suburbs and largest circulation local paper in the country, about the some rural fringes on the border of glorious south increase in the entry fee at the local swimming baths. I Staffordshire countryside. Wards include Brierley Hill; then joined the Conservative party in 1996 at the age of Brockmoor and Pensnett; Kingswinford North and Wall 18 when I arrived at university in Headington in Oxford, Heath; Kingswinford South; Netherton, Woodside and to be greeted by the beaming faces of my hon. Friends St Andrews; and Wordsley. Within my constituency, we the Members for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) and for have the Merry Hill shopping centre, now managed by North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson). The former was at 781 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 782 that time the Conservative prospective parliamentary I want to outline the danger, in this contradiction, of candidate for Oxford East, and the latter was the chairman believing one’s own rhetoric—I have done it, so I should of the university Conservative society. In 1996, who know—because Members will find that it catches up would have believed that, come 2010, Justin Tomlinson with them. It is possible to play off one set of people and I would join Jon Djanogly, who has been an MP for against another, as the Secretary of State for Work and nine years already, on the Government Benches? Pension did yesterday when he said, “If we don’t cut the It is a huge honour to represent Dudley South in this welfare budget more than we intend at the moment, we Chamber, and I will work tirelessly to get a fair deal for will have to cut it out of education, housing or other my residents. services.” That will turn the nearly-poor against the very-poor; it will turn those who aspire to something 7.8 pm better against those whom they resent. The hon. Member Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and for Dudley South was right about people feeling that, Hillsborough) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. Member on occasion, there is unfairness—we were victims of for Dudley South (Chris Kelly) and welcome him to the that feeling at the general election—but we should not House. He paid a decent tribute to his predecessor, Ian mistake resentment for unfairness. People often feel Pearson, and I too regret that he was not able to eat resentment towards those who do not have a job and with John Butcher, whom I knew and who was a very are on benefits; they often feel resentment that someone decent man. I was warming very much to the hon. is getting something they are not. However, we must not Gentleman’s speech until his eulogy for Baroness Thatcher, mistake that for an issue of fairness, because fairness is who we remember in a slightly different vein in my city about protecting those who are most vulnerable. In the of Sheffield to those new Members who see themselves years ahead, local government will not have the capacity, as her children. Children can have a blinkered view of as we had in the early ’80s, to protect our people. their parents, and sometimes we see them through a In the seven years that I was leader of Sheffield city glass darkly. council, we experienced the most enormous reductions May I apologise to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, if I in the local authority budget at a time when we had a am not here for the whole of the rest of the evening. To broader base for local government expenditure. We had put it delicately, it is not just the dog’s legs that are the national business rate, as it is now known, and the crossed. local domestic rate. My hon. Friend the Member for I am pleased that the Secretary of State has returned Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), who has been kind from west Yorkshire. He may be able to confirm that the enough to wait around this afternoon, took over from Prime Minister this morning did an interview on Real me as leader and had to continue dealing with those Radio in west Yorkshire and told the story of the expenditure cuts. We were able to raise the local rate, making of the coalition. He invited the right hon. and amazingly people continued to vote for us in a way Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr Clegg) to supper at that would not be possible today. However, if council his house and presented him with ham and baked tax is frozen—in other words, if it is capped universally—if potatoes. I am not sure who was the ham and who was resources are dramatically reduced, if the health service the baked potatoes. It might be apocryphal, but I believe is ring-fenced and so unable to help by intervening and that the Deputy Prime Minister asked the Prime Minister crossing boundaries, and if there is no longer joint where the vegetables were, and the Prime Minister said, funding, as there was in the 1980s after it was introduced “You’re addressing them later to put the coalition together”. by Barbara Castle, those services will inevitably be Of course, that is based on a very old story, and I decimated. apologise for recycling it. If a party is really about cutting expenditure, not I want to deal with issues of contradiction. Who, in services—and I wonder whether some people in the this House, could not be in favour of decentralisation, coalition want to cut the latter and not just the former—it devolvement and localism, which some of us have preached must do so over a substantial time scale. Otherwise, and practised throughout our lives? However, what is next year and the year after, there will be the most taking place is not the decentralisation of power, but enormous cutbacks in expenditure—to pay for redundancy the decentralisation of pain and of the implementation payments for thousands of local authority workers. The of policy that will cause pain; it is not the devolvement benefits that will have to be paid to them and the loss in of decision making, but the devolvement of responsibility tax and national insurance will add up to the billions for actions taken by central Government that will have that the previous Government managed to cut from the to be inflicted on people—I underline, on people—at a welfare budget—£4 billion a year was eventually saved local level. We can take out so much resource and argue by a reduction in wasteful expenditure on cutback and in the long term about Total Place, of which I am totally retrenchment. in favour, but we should not quickly take out the billions—not millions—of pounds that, over the next We are in a dangerous situation. We might find that, four years, will be withdrawn from local government. If having cut expenditure and services, resentment and we take one in four pounds—perhaps even one in bitterness arise in a way that will lead to the kind of three—out of local government spending, we will take disturbances and lack of social cohesion experienced in it not out of bureaucracy, but out of the lives and the early 1980s. Fortunately, Sheffield was the only well-being of ordinary people. As has been described major town or city that did not experience disturbances this afternoon, the people who deliver adult services or at that time. I hope that that will be true of Britain as a child protection, who open and staff the leisure centres, whole in the future. However, great care needs to be who provide library services and clean the streets, are taken, not just to involve people, to talk to them and to not bureaucrats; they are people delivering at the sharp learn what they can contribute towards their services, end services that have already been pared back over but in order that the plug is not pulled on other aspects many years. as well. This year’s round of cuts is so unfair because 783 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 784

[Mr David Blunkett] concerned about or surprised about—despite the protests of Labour Members, who do not want to hear about aggregate external funding—to use a technical term—is the true state of the public finances. The people in the designed for specific funding for specific purposes targeted country understand and support the measures that we at the most disadvantaged. That is what the area-based need to take. These measures are necessary as a result of grant, the working neighbourhoods fund and the local past mistakes, and the coalition Government have been enterprise growth initiative are about. Incidentally, the forced to take strong and decisive action to sort out the latter also triggers funding from Europe and external deficit and ensure that confidence is not lost in UK funding from elsewhere that will also be lost. Pull that markets. The public understand that the action that is out and we pull the plug on those services. being taken is unavoidable and that Britain must build a Some have said that we can un-ring-fence expenditure new economic model founded on the principles of freedom, and that everything will be fine. The Minister of State, fairness and responsibility. Department for Education, the hon. Member for Bognor The private sector has already borne the brunt of the Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb) gave me a written recession, and it is important that this responsibility is reply recently in which he referred to ring-fencing. It shared by all of us. The private sector endured job read: losses and business closures during the dying days of “This flexibility means that reductions in spending could be the previous Government. Businesses have been forced managed without a reduction in jobs or frontline services.”—[Official to make savings, to cut back and to make redundancies, Report, 28 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 423W.] so it is only right that this pain is shared by all, because That is either duplicity or complete naivety. In the we are all in it together.[Laughter.] four years ahead, we cannot afford for ordinary people I ran a business for 25 years, and I know that no to have their services destroyed because Ministers and matter how tightly run an organisation, there are always Treasury officials do not understand the consequences additional cost savings that can be made. Here we are of their actions. If that happens, we will regret it for looking at additional cost savings of between 1% and many years to come. 2%; they are there if people look hard enough. It is interesting that the Local Government Association briefing 7.18 pm document issued today makes Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): It is a great pleasure to “a comprehensive and open offer to Government to work with follow the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside them to… reform the state to achieve the required savings”. and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) and to be in the Chamber That shows that there is clear acceptance of the need for for the maiden speeches of my hon. Friends the Members savings and a desire to get on with them. for Dudley South (Chris Kelly) and for Wolverhampton There are many examples of current public sector South West (Paul Uppal). Their speeches distinguished waste. The Minister told us about some of them earlier themselves from those of the Opposition who seem to when he spoke about tranquillity rooms, cappuccino be seeking to renew some of the battles of the past machines and Pravda-style magazines. An article in The 13 years and who seem to have failed to recognise that Sunday Times of 13 June showed that local government the world has moved on. still “doesn’t get it”, as it is advertising well-paid non-jobs. It is appropriate that we are discussing local government Brighton and Hove city council is recruiting four new funding in the context of the Budget debate of the past “strategic directors” on £125,000 each; their job is to few days, which, it is important to remember, was an “look outwards”. An “internal communications change emergency Budget debate that arose as a consequence consultant”, the article also mentioned, is being recruited of the severity of the economic position in which the in Sheffield at a cost of between £380 and £400 a day. A country finds itself—even worse than was expected. I “community development co-ordinator”in east London— want to consider why the local government funding debate is necessary and what other sectors have done Mr Kevan Jones: I am fascinated by the hon. Gentleman’s already, and I want to put in perspective what local examples, but should he not be telling members of his government is being asked to do and how it may do it. It own party in local government to practise what they is entirely appropriate that local government should preach, as most of the councils concerned are Tory and make its contribution to tackling the budget deficit. Liberal Democrat councils? Labour has left behind one of the largest budget deficits in Europe, and we are borrowing one pound for every Mark Pawsey: The message is going out loud and four that we spend, increasing our national debt by clear: this kind of waste cannot go on and should not £3 billion a week. The crisis in the eurozone shows that happen. It is entirely right for the Government to conduct the consequences of not acting are severe, in terms of a full review of local government finance and right that higher interest rates, sharper rises in unemployment and that review should restore to our councils a general potentially even the end of the recovery. Those issues power of competence. For far too long, councils have are recognised in the country. been dictated to by central Government. Reference has It is now seven days since my right hon. Friend the already been made to the estimate that only 5% of local Chancellor stood at the Dispatch Box and gave his government spending is controlled by elected councils. Budget statement. As a new Member, I have had to That means that of the £7,000 a head spent on local come to terms with the massive amount of e-mail and public services, only £350 is under local democratic letters that Members receive. On the Budget, I have had control. plenty of correspondence—from think-tanks and lobby I was a councillor for five years, and in that time I groups—but since last Tuesday I have had very little became increasingly frustrated with Government from the electors in my Rugby constituency. The reason interference, much of which prevented me and my is that there was little in the Budget that electors were colleagues from doing our job. It is for that reason that 785 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 786 local government has often been described as a delivery I refer again to the statement released by the Local arm of central Government. We often took decisions Government Association, which understands the need not because they were the right ones for our community, for the plans that the Government are introducing. but because the Government had told us that that was In some areas, certain groups have had massively what they wanted us to do and they applied pressure more than their fair share of funding, so it is only right through directives, centrally set targets, inspection regimes that, during such times as these, they should reduce the and the final sanction of taking away grants. It is burden. Let me cite the example of the £30 million that refreshing for all involved in local government—both will be saved by ceasing the Gypsy and Traveller sites officers and councillors—that the coalition Government grant. Here is a relatively small community that has plans set out to provide councils with the freedom and benefited hugely and, in my view, disproportionately the resources to concentrate on local priorities and from public expenditure and is a matter of great concern deliver front-line services by stopping the ring-fencing to the settled community in places such as Bulkington of central Government grants. in my constituency. By way of showing that further savings can be made, I refer to my home Rugby borough Tom Blenkinsop: Does the hon. Gentleman regard council; by not replacing its chief executive, it is enabling the recent Department for Work and Pensions policy of savings of more than £100,000 a year. Another example “on yer bike” as a centrally driven target? is Warwickshire county council, which is estimated to have made savings of £19 million in value-for-money Mark Pawsey: It is not centrally driven at all. savings in 2008-09. So there are early signs that the The changes will be made by local authorities and I councils themselves recognise the need for radical reform, believe these changes, restoring freedom to local authorities, which needs to begin immediately, and they are tackling will encourage more people to put their names forward the challenges posed by the new Government. for the role of councillor. The previous Labour Government In addition to seeking savings in expenditure, the presided over more than a decade of economic prosperity Government are taking steps to minimise the effect of during the ’90s and the early part of this decade—and council tax on individuals and businesses, and are providing they should have been taking advantage of that; as we support for hard-working families through a council said, they should have been mending the roof while the tax freeze. They have demonstrated immediate support sun was shining. They failed to do so, and it falls to the for front-line services by protecting £29 billion of formula coalition Government to implement the efficiency savings, grant. Unlike the Labour party, the coalition has listened to cut the quangos and to reduce the regulatory burden, to advice from those affected by poor over-regulation. which are so desperately needed. In conclusion, I believe the proposals on local government According to a PricewaterhouseCoopers report entitled finance are reasoned and proportionate, and appropriate “Mapping the Performance Landscape”, commissioned in difficult economic times, and I shall support the by the Department for Communities and Local amendment. Government in 2006, it was estimated that a typical 7.30 pm council spent £2.6 million a year in reporting performance information to central Government. The previous Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): May I welcome Government also failed to heed the warnings provided you to your new position, Madam Deputy Speaker? I by the very councils that they so tightly guarded. In a know that you will watch over our proceedings carefully comprehensive area assessment published in January but firmly. I also want to congratulate the hon. Members 2010, the councils were warned that for Dudley South (Chris Kelly) and for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) on their maiden speeches. The “the burden of inspection has not been reduced as a consequence of Comprehensive Area Assessment”, hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West, who is no longer in the Chamber, said we should think of him and as a good and decent person, and I have no doubt that “nearly two-thirds of respondents to the latest CAA watch survey he is, but he is going to have his compassion—and, dare disagreed or strongly disagreed that the burden of inspection was I say, his sense of social justice—tested by the proposals being reduced as a consequences of CAA.” we are discussing today and those to come in the weeks It is time that central Government stopped smothering and months ahead. local councils and provided them with the level of I also recommend that the hon. Member for Rugby authority they need to get on with their role of serving (Mark Pawsey) look back at his speech today because I and responding to the residents who elect them. think he has highlighted an important difficulty. Although I believe that Labour Members are over-stating the we all want to decentralise, it can be tempting to suggest effect of the changes that local government is being that we should take control when we think things are asked to make. We should remember that this is an not being done quite right at the local level. He gave the emergency Budget in which local government is being example of the high salaries paid to some staff under asked to make £1.166 billion-worth of savings to the the Tory-Liberal Democrat council at Brighton and £6.2 billion of cross-government savings for 2010-11. Hove. That might point to another suggestion for the Secretary of State: that he should have some jurisdiction Toby Perkins rose— over local government salaries, as well as knowing about every budget over £500 that is spent in local Mark Pawsey: I am running out of time, so I will government. proceed, if I may. Mr Kevan Jones: Is it not the case that in my right Removing restrictions on how local authorities spend hon. Friend’s own authority in Doncaster the Government their money is a vital part of allowing them to deliver have appointed a chief executive on what might possibly efficiencies and focus their budgets on front-line services. be considered a very high salary? 787 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 788

Caroline Flint: Yes, they probably have done that, but are vulnerable and need support, and which Labour I have to say that I am in full agreement with what my Members disproportionately represent. Doncaster council right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State had has already had more than £4.5 million in funding cuts, decided in relation to Doncaster as it is important to get and we have more to come: 20% of Doncaster funding— our services running properly, and the current Secretary almost £80 million—is vulnerable. of State has followed through that decision, so I do not As Labour Members have said, that money is linked think there is any disagreement between the two Front to deprivation and need. Members on the Government Benches on this. The proof of the decision, however, Benches took issue with Opposition Members; they will be in what happens, and whether the salary paid to suggested, “You’ve had all the money coming your way. the chief executive is justified by our getting some It’s not fair that you’ve had all that money for your results—sooner rather than later, hopefully. constituencies’ families and communities.” I do not take The hon. Member for Rugby and others have said any joy in the levels of inequality in my constituency. I that Labour Members want to refight the battles of the came into politics to make sure that people had a 1980s. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I do not chance to have a better life and to address the social, want to do that, but neither do we want a return in our economic and health inequalities that exist. In 13 years, communities of the devastation that the ’80s caused. we had improvements in our schools, improvements in Doncaster and other parts of south Yorkshire, as well health, improvements in housing and improvements in as other areas of the country and of Wales and Scotland, skills and jobs. The danger is that the journey stops here have been on a journey over the last 13 years. There is a today because of the Con-Dem Government and what long way still to go, but progress has been made. Public they will do, because they will stop the progress in its investment went into detoxifying the coal pit areas in tracks. order to make them fit for other uses—to regenerate for In Doncaster, £800,000 will be cut from careers advice leisure but also for jobs. That required a willingness to for young people, which helps young people to look for make sure that that land was not left barren and unusable apprenticeships or full-time work. There will also be a by local communities. In ’97, some primary schools had cut of £150,000 in funding for activities for young toilets that were outside and in a dilapidated state. We people, including for disabled children and young people. not only fixed the roof on many of our schools, but we Schemes such as the local enterprise growth initiative brought the loos indoors so the kids could use them and the working neighbourhoods fund, which encourage appropriately and properly. investment, support local businesses, help to create jobs We have had to deal with a lot of work like that. As and boost incomes, and which in the long run save has been mentioned, we inherited housing stock that money, all now face an uncertain future. was by no means of a decent standard. We had to make some tough choices by spending money on improving I attended the Thorne carers forum just a couple of that stock while realising that that might prevent us weeks ago. It was a day to get carers to come in, have a from building more homes. Before the recession hit we bit of relaxation, meet some of the different agencies were, however, up there, reaching our target of 240,000 that provide support and to enjoy themselves—to take new-builds each year. Unfortunately, the recession got some time out from their daily activity, which is filled in the way, but we were on that journey, making progress. with love but also with difficulties. I wonder what they are thinking about what will happen, because they will Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): How probably not get support for the core funding for that many council houses did the previous Government event, as it is discretionary, but it means a huge amount build in the last 13 years? to those people, giving them a bit of respite in their Caroline Flint: Not enough, actually, and for the daily lives. reasons I outlined. First, we inherited a situation in At the weekend, I spoke to Maureen Tennyson at the which councils where people had sought the right to Edlington gala. She is a key activist in Neighbourhood buy were not getting money back from that in capital Watch and in tackling antisocial behaviour in our receipts. Under the right to buy, the better homes were, neighbourhood. One problem we have had is with private of course, sold off earlier, which meant that the housing landlords who buy up cheap properties and then misuse stock that was left was very poor. We addressed how we that responsibility by either leaving them empty, letting might improve the social housing sector by looking at them become derelict or not taking control of their not only council housing but housing associations. tenants. There is concern about the selective licensing I must say that we also took some tough decisions scheme we are getting going; people have worries in with our own Labour authorities about how they should respect of the work being done to get that under way improve their approach to social housing across the and to make some of these landlords get a licence or not piece. That included making sure that tenants in both be allowed to let. That will have a huge impact on housing association and council housing had more of a neighbourhoods where in one street there might be a say. We wanted to get rid of the idea, which tarred the mixture of private ownership, private rented and council Labour party, that every council tenant had to have property alongside each other. This is one of the biggest their front door painted the same because it was a blights. The people who make the money do not live in council home. We brought innovation and reform into those communities, and if there is any action to cut the sector, and we can be justly proud of that. back in this regard, then the Government are saying a However much the Con-Dem Government pretend really big, “We don’t want to help you” to people in otherwise, it is clear that the cuts in local government Edlington and elsewhere. funding will hit hardest not Tory and Liberal Democrat Members or vast numbers in their constituencies—although Sajid Javid: We are all in this House to help vulnerable I recognise that there are areas of deprivation in every people. Does the right hon. Lady not accept that in constituency—but those communities and families who 13 years in power her Government increased inequality 789 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 790 between the richest and poorest in our society and 7.42 pm reduced social mobility? Does she not realise that the Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): I best way to help the very people she is talking about is want to start by adding my congratulations to my hon. to help them to find jobs and to create opportunities, Friends the Members for Dudley South (Chris Kelly) not make them live of her handouts? and for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) on their excellent maiden speeches. I am sure the rest of the Caroline Flint: There is a case for arguing that the House will join me in hoping that they will speak again rich got richer, but at the same time we took thousands in this Chamber in the very near future. of children out of child poverty. I will tell the hon. Gentleman something else: cancelling the extension of Today’s debate is very important. As Members will free school meals to low-income families has prevented know, local government financing represents approximately 50,000 more children from being taken out of poverty, 25% of Government spending and is responsible for so I will not take any lectures on fairness and tackling delivering many of the essential front-line services our inequality. The Government could have got some extra constituents rely on. Such a level of spending therefore money by doing what we suggested—by taking more cannot be immune to the spending cuts forced on us by money off the bankers, out of their bonuses—but they the parlous state of the finances we inherited from the fell short on that. There are plenty of other areas that previous Labour Government. The historic local could be looked at, such as Government support for government funding formula has for far too long been private education, in order to save some money for our used, especially by the Labour Government, not as a schools. Some £100 million comes from Government to political tool but as a political weapon—a weapon with support private education in different forms. Perhaps which to beat the shire counties of England for having we could look at making a cut there. the temerity to vote Conservative. Local government finance is a particular concern to Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): Will the right me and my constituents, as my constituency suffers hon. Lady give way? greatly under the historic funding regime. This year, Caroline Flint: If I can make a bit of progress, I might each child in North West Leicestershire is having come back to the hon. Gentleman; I have only two £3,888 spent on their education, compared with the minutes left. £4,497 spent on each child in the city of Leicester—a The cost to society will be huge if we take short-term difference of some £600 per child per year, and the decisions that fundamentally disrupt some of the progress disparity is increasing. Last year, the difference in funding that has been made in different communities. The point was £550 per child. has already been made strongly about Total Place programmes: it is not just about people putting money Toby Perkins: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? into a pot; it involves a difficult journey, getting different organisations to put their separate cultures to one side Andrew Bridgen: Let me make a little progress and I and come together for the community good. That is not am sure the theme will become clear. easy, but we have made that progress by bringing health That funding difference is putting the children of closer to local authorities. I am very glad that we now North West Leicestershire at a major disadvantage. The have a jointly appointed public health director, and that two biggest senior schools in my constituency—Ashby we see joint commissioning happening. My worry is and King Edward—are disadvantaged by nearly £1 million that if local authorities and local government retreat, and £500,000 respectively each year compared with the others will retreat as well. They will go into a bunker city of Leicester. That simply is not fair. silo mentality. It happens at Government level, but it also happens at local level, and what we will see is a Perhaps the biggest unfairness emerges when we consider retraction. the level of deprivation in North West Leicestershire. As my colleagues have said, it is one thing for hospitals According to the last census, in one ward in my constituency to make sure they have policies that mean that older 468 children were living in income-deprived households, people leave hospital quicker. That is quite right, but if yet their educational needs were funded by £600 less adult social care in the community is undermined, this year than were those of pupils in the city of Leicester. where will those older people go? Where will the support That cannot be right, and I look forward to the pupil be to make sure the plan is put into action—that Elsie premium redressing this unfairness. or Sam can ensure that their home is adapted before Despite these funding shortages, Leicestershire county they leave hospital, so they can actually be at home? council is performing excellently and is a four-star The danger is that what is happening is very short term. council. According to independent inspectors, The private sector depends on the public sector for “the Council is good at managing its money and making savings growth and for contracts. For example, there is no to spend on the most important services”. doubt that Yorkshire Forward, the regional development The independent inspectorate also comments on how agency, has been fundamental in helping our airport to “Leicestershire County Council manages its finances well. Council get off the ground—literally, as it were. What is going to tax is low compared with other areas and it provides a wide range happen about the investment that RDAs are providing? of good and excellent services. This means it provides good value What assessment has been made of the loss of private for money. In 2008/2009 it saved almost £11 million and it is on investment following the abolition of the RDAs? track to make further savings this year. These savings are then There is a lot at stake here. Of course we have to spent on improving services”. make cuts and reduce the deficit, but our plans showed It is vital that well-run local authorities such as Leicestershire that we could do it in a meaningful way that did not put be looked at sympathetically when it comes to departmental communities on hold or even take them backwards. spending cuts. Fit organisations have little fat to cut That is the danger of the proposals before us tonight. away; it is the bloated authorities that have been 791 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 792

[Andrew Bridgen] that it can tax itself to prosperity is as ridiculous as a man standing in a bucket and believing he can lift disproportionately funded and badly managed that should himself up by pulling on the handle. The Conservative- be looking at trimming their organisations. Perhaps controlled district council has introduced below-inflation they will decide not to do that, and to pass on the costs increases of 2% in 2008 and 2009, and this year has of their inefficiency to the long-suffering taxpayer. I introduced the sort of increase that the right hon. urge us to remove the cap on council tax increases, Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) which will allow them to do just that. Councils that would doubtless describe as “a 0% increase”. Much to choose to take that path will then expose their profligacy, the relief of local residents, the council is improving waste and poor management to the wrath of the electorate, services through prudent financial management and by leaving them fully accountable for their actions—hopefully trimming away the fat of previous administrations. through the ballot box. The east midlands and Leicestershire have fared little It is not just in education where my constituents are better under Labour on other essential public services. suffering the effects of the previous Labour Government’s On policing, based on the 2009-10 budget and the policies, but also housing. The previous Labour district 2008-09 crime survey, the east midlands region has council in North West Leicestershire, before being relieved the lowest grant relative to the number of crimes in the of office in 2007—with the biggest swing in the country whole of the UK. The east midlands receives just £1,330 in against Labour in those elections, but that is another grant for every crime whereas the north-east region matter—left the council housing stock in a lamentable receives an extra £800 per crime to deal with the offences state, rated as “poor”, with no stars. Despite this, owing in its region. Let us consider what happens with other to Labour Government policy we have the ludicrous essential services. The combined fire service of Leicester, situation in which a third of all the rents we collect Leicestershire and Rutland is the lowest funded per every year are passed back to central Government to capita of any shire county fire service in England. maintain housing stock in other areas, despite the fact Those and many other inequalities must be borne in that a third of our housing stock is classified as “sub- mind when funding decisions are made. standard”, that we have elderly residents who are still I must reiterate that the fat, bloated local authorities forced to rely on solid fuel for heating and water, and are the ones that need to put their house in order when that rents are increasing. We need to end this unfair and it comes to the inevitable cuts, which must be made this inefficient arrangement. I also look forward to councils year, next year and for several years to come because of being able to retain moneys raised by selling council the awful financial legacy of the Labour Government. houses, so that they can be re-invested in building new In conclusion, all I ask on local government financing is council houses in the district. for a fair settlement for the east midlands, for Leicestershire When the Opposition talk about local councils not and for my constituency of North West Leicestershire. building social housing, they might want to consider the fact that, in answers to questions in the last Parliament, 7.51 pm the Government conceded to my right hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps) that the Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Members £200 million a year collected in local council rents on the Benches opposite are, understandably, repeating nationally was not even spent on housing but simply this desperate mantra about “unavoidable cuts”. I suppose entered the general taxation coffers. Despite this, they they think that if they can cling to that enough and have left us with the largest deficit in the history of this repeat it often, somehow it will become true. These country at £156 billion. announcements of reductions—these swingeing cutbacks There is a comparison to be made between the financial of public services—are not unavoidable; there are alternative management of the previous Labour Government and strategies. Taking out 25% of public spending in these the management of North West Leicestershire district unprotected departmental expenditure limits within council when it was under Labour control. During such a short period of time—four years—is to act too those sad 33 years of Labour control, my constituents quickly and too harshly. There is no consensus among faced an above-inflation council tax rise, year in, year economists—that is certainly the case globally, let alone out. in this country—that this approach is the only way to protect our triple A rating and is essential in order to Toby Perkins: The hon. Gentleman says that his avoid a Greek-style arrangement. I suspect that either constituents suffered under a Labour council for 33 years. there is a little naivety on the part of the Liberal If it was so terrible, why did they keep voting for it? Democrats in propping up this ideological zeal to reduce Andrew Bridgen: I think we needed to have a shake-up public spending, which has always been present in the of the Conservative party in North West Leicestershire, right wing of the Conservative party; or the Liberal which came in 2007. When the people of my constituency Democrats—at least some of them—have sold their make their minds up, they make their minds up, and we souls in order take on the trappings of high office. I had the biggest swing against Labour in those elections, hope that is not the case, but I am sure it is beginning to as I pointed out. look to many of my hon. Friends as though it might be. Even in the year when it was thrown out of office, the In my constituency, in Nottingham, the first tranche Labour council increased council tax by 4.1%, and its of service cutbacks—taking out the £6 billion and performance was rated as weak and some way behind having £1 billion of reductions in local government that of comparable councils. Three years later, the spending—meant £4.5 million taken out of Nottingham’s situation is somewhat better. The council is now rated front-line services. Some £2.7 million has been taken adequate and is improving year on year. This has not out of the education area-based grant—that money is been achieved by the Labour methods of tax and spend. not just for the one-to-one tuition that we were hoping As Winston Churchill said, for any society to believe to have for children in most need, but for the school 793 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 794 transport budget, the special educational needs budget area agreement frameworks. Those partnerships have and so on—and £1.2 million has been taken out of the been shattered into smithereens because each public working neighbourhoods fund. The title of that fund agency will retrench into its shell, with local authorities does not really capture what it does, because the fund having to focus very much on their own situation and helps to combat teenage pregnancy and ensures that being unable to pool discretionary resources with other welfare rights advice is given to people. It provided the agencies. I am sure that the same will be the case in money that went hand in hand with the future jobs fund respect of police authorities, health bodies and others, to help to get young people off benefits and into work. and I very much regret that move. Millions of pounds have been taken out of these services, The Government also decided to scrap the local area with £350,000 being removed from road safety spending agreement reward grant. Again, this is a technical area, and £2 million from the transport capital grant. but the grant was important in process terms because it Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con) rose— encouraged some sharing of objectives between central and local government. Not every front-line service is Chris Leslie: I know that will affect the constituency determined by a local authority alone. Of course, as we of the hon. Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer), as it have heard, all sorts of services depend on central and neighbours mine. local government working in tandem. Driving a coach Mr Spencer: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that and horses through the local area agreement framework Nottingham city council may have been assisted if it will mean that local authorities will have absolutely no had not had to dispose of three chief executives before incentive to work in partnership with central Government, their contracts expired, because they could not get on because in doing so all they have been given is a slap in with the Labour-controlled city council, and pay them the face. That is a great pity, because although this settlement fees in excess of six figures? approach may not necessarily be noticed by our constituents, it is a crucial piece of the jigsaw that made a big Chris Leslie: No, I would not agree. The tactic of the difference. hon. Gentleman and of many hon. Members on the The notion that the Government have been so generous Benches opposite is to pick one or two anecdotal examples in removing the ring-fencing from a series of grants of problems, creating from those a whole story about after they took the axe to area-based grant that already how the public sector is rife with inefficiency and difficulties, exists is worrying. If the first thing that the Government and has to be culled. I presume he thinks that the only decide to cut is that budget, which already contained a way forward is this fantastic private sector drive, which degree of flexibility and involved local authorities having is always correct in all circumstances. There are examples an amount of freedom—local councils were getting of poor practice in the public sector, just as there are in used to working without the constraints of the centre—and the private sector. All I say to him is that taking 25% of straight away the front-line thing that goes is the area public spending out of these vital services within four based grant and that flexible money, what will be the years will affect his party and the Liberal Democrats at reaction of any local authority when the next tranche of the ballot box, particularly in the local elections next money is magically un-ring-fenced? Naturally, those year—it will be interesting to see the reaction from the will be the next sums of money to go through the exit Liberal Democrats then. door, be they for the de-trunking of roads or for housing We are all constrained by time in this debate, but I market renewal—the Government say they are removing wish to raise a couple of points, especially on the local some of the ring-fencing from that. Those will be the government finance particulars that have not been addressed items of expenditure that will probably be cut next, so far. Some of my hon. Friends have mentioned the because that is the signal that the Government are difficulties created by the in-year reductions in the first sending. wave of announcements. Strangely, there will probably be four chops of the axe: the first announcement at the end of May/beginning of June; the Budget; the spending Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): The housing market review coming up in the autumn; and another Budget in renewal grant was obviously spent on renewing areas. March. One consequence is that the ability for any Does the hon. Gentleman think that spending 10% of sensible local authority to plan ahead carefully, cautiously the total money—more than £300 million—on mini- and sensibly on a medium to long-term framework quangos that simply passported the money through was containing some understanding of what settlements it sensible? Last year, more than £33 million was spent on might achieve, given that the vast majority of local these quangos, which basically just passported the money government money comes from grant, has gone entirely. through. That has now been running for four years. No sane or sensible local authority will be able to make More than £130 million, which could have been paid any decisions about how it proceeds for the medium direct to local authorities to deliver the programme, was term until it has heard what is in the spending review. sent through totally unnecessary quangos set up by the The danger in making some of the reductions within Labour Government. this mid-year period is that the short-termism will create extra harm, because changes will not be thought through Chris Leslie: The hon. Gentleman can make these or evidence-based, and unfortunately they will probably points, but they are dancing on the head of a pin. I hit those in most need. think it is important that this money goes to the front Another consequence of this short-termism is that it line and gets spent, but it certainly will not help to cut affects some of the carefully constructed partnerships these sums of money by a quarter—probably more than between public agencies within localities, which we have that—over four years. The hon. Gentleman seems to all been hearing about. We all, of course, want Total have these issues completely out of proportion. It is also Place and we want local authorities to work together, be interesting that in a written answer to me the Under- it at local strategic partnership level or under the local Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, 795 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 796

[Chris Leslie] although I hope that the Liberal Democrats will think again—that are certainly not in the interests of any of the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert our constituents. Neill), had to correct the announcement that the Government had made to the House about the un-ring- 8.4 pm fencing of so much money. They discovered that a Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): First, I congratulate mistake had been made when they said that £300 million my fellow west midlands colleagues, my hon. Friends of private sector renewal moneys and the housing and the Members for Wolverhampton South West (Paul planning delivery grant had been un-ring-fenced. It Uppal) and for Dudley South (Chris Kelly), on making turned out that that money was already flexible, so their excellent maiden speeches. totals were changed entirely. I have listened intently and with great interest to the debate. Opposition Members seem tireless in their criticisms I want to talk about one or two other points that have of the measures that the coalition Government are not been mentioned that much. Capital spending on having to make. I am afraid that the debate has been a infrastructure and on the improvement of the basic little like a stuck record—technology that we were quite facilities in many of our constituencies is essential. Not used to in the 1980s, and which they seem to hark back only is capital grant being reduced significantly, but a to. At that time, I remember that many small and little-spotted change was announced in the Budget in medium-sized businesses occupied our industrial estates respect of prudential borrowing and the freedom that in my constituency. That was the case up until the the previous Administration gave to local authorities so mid-1990s, but unfortunately after 13 years of Labour that they did not have to jump through all sorts of Government many of the industrial units that I remember Treasury bureaucracy to be able to access capital loans that used to be full with people in employment now from the Public Works Loans Board. An item in the stand empty. I hope that the coalition Government will small print in the Red Book now states that local put that right by refreshing and rejuvenating the private authorities will have those requests from the PWLB sector. scrutinised far more closely than before. In other words, Opposition Members also make no apology for it is a return to the days of centralism, if they get that mortgaging our country to the hilt and they still seem to money at all. Local authorities will have less capital want to keep spending and spending. They talk about grant as well as less ability to access PWLB money. reducing the deficit, yet we still hear no tangible sign of Does that mean that local authorities will have to go how Labour would get us out of the black hole in the for bond finance, which is more expensive? I would public finances that they spent many years putting us certainly like to hear more from the Government about into. that; there was not an announcement in the Budget Not only were the previous Government profligate about bond finance. I would also like to hear where we with the public finances, but they were also profligate stand in terms of accelerated development zones, tax with their constant diktat to local government. Local increment financing and other measures that would be councils have been subjected to the constant and never- useful in encouraging innovation in the way in which ending grip of the previous Government, obsessed with local authorities access capital markets. performance management, inspections, ring-fencing and general micro-management. My final point concerns the choices that local authorities Let me touch on the performance management regime face and where they go with these difficult decisions. operated by the previous Government. It spiralled Many Government Members might have local authority completely out of control, with councils at times being members who are happy to take on the full burden of asked to report on matters over which they had little or these reductions in the services that affect their constituents no influence and in which they certainly had no decision- who are in most need. Many Labour authorities—and making power. Under that regime, by 2008 a typical indeed, those run by the Liberal Democrats as they council was spending £2.6 million a year reporting used to be—might want to try to temper that and to performance information to central Government. That consider raising revenue from other sources. Traditionally, additional burden also cost front-line services. For example, council tax has been the only option, although there is a essential services such as bin collections have been quasi-capping arrangement going on with this supposed reduced. That has all happened in spite of the fact that one-year council tax freeze deal. Most local authorities council tax virtually doubled under the previous will probably be fairly daft not to accept the money that Government, not to mention the spiralling cost of fees is on the table, although it is entirely unsustainable. and charges to the public—a practice that was actively There is no way that the Government will be able to encouraged under the previous Government, particularly extend that for long. After we have gone past this first by Lord Prescott, about whom we have heard quite a bit year, we should be aware that the gearing ratio means today. that local council tax increases could easily be of the 10% to 15% variety. Does that mean that the Secretary The previous Government should have used the line of State will bring capping back in? Again, so much for “less for more”, such was their contempt for local his localism. government and communities across the country.Reducing core services and doubling council tax is the legacy of I suspect that the real burden will end up hidden away 13 years of Labour Government. I need only look at my in the fees and charges that all our constituents have to local council, Nuneaton and Bedworth—a council on pay, with a return to the easyJet council model—it will which I was privileged to serve, and where I saw at first be hidden not just in planning charges, parking charges, hand examples of how the heavy-handed clunking fist swimming and library charges and so on but in those of the previous Government affected local government social care charges that hit the poorest most of all. and the ability of local councillors to represent local Unfortunately, this is an ideological set of changes— people and make local decisions. 797 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 798

While it was under Labour control, the council was what they think is right for local people. That approach given a comprehensive performance assessment. Many is diametrically opposed to the stance of Opposition Members who have been in local government will probably Members, who are burying their heads in the sand have enjoyed that experience. The Audit Commission regarding the debt that they are responsible for. They gave the council a weak rating. On advice, the council also seem to want the Government to keep our councils responded by embarking on a two-year process of CPA in their pocket—to keep them in a straitjacket and voluntary engagement. That wasted thousands of hours dictate how and where they must spend their money of officer time, employed a number of additional regardless of priorities. The very motion that they have consultants at a substantial cost to the authority and put forward this evening explains that. caused additional layers of bureaucracy that were added I know which approach I would prefer if I were still a to the council’s structure. What were the outcomes for council leader. I also know, from my dealings with local local people? They were negligible and certainly not government and from my contact with fellow Conservative, proportionate to the resources expended over several Labour and Liberal Democrat councillors, which they years. would prefer—more autonomy for local authorities, I have no doubt that the comprehensive area assessment not less, and I am sure that this coalition Government will be just as onerous, as my hon. Friend the Member will provide that. That is why I support the Government’s for Rugby (Mark Pawsey) pointed out. I therefore welcome amendment. the decision made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to abolish the CAA, which, I have no doubt, 8.12 pm will reduce the inspection burden and free up vital Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): I resources to deliver services. My right hon. Friend has am very pleased to contribute to the debate, because it is made an excellent start and my hope is that he will go important to remind everyone of the key role that local further and work with the Local Government Association, government plays in the delivery of services to our which has suggested today how £4.5 billion of savings communities. I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend could be achieved through: the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough “Reducing the regulatory burden on councils and pruning out (Mr Blunkett), who is not in his place, for outlining the the maze of Quangos, middlemen, bureaucratic funding streams importance of council services to vulnerable people. and audit arrangements in order to protect front line services on That is why we need to take a detailed look at where the which the most vulnerable depend.” £6.2 billion of additional cuts are falling. I shall speak I also welcome the decision by the coalition Government later about the huge impact that the £16.8 million of to announce further removal of ring-fencing. The planning additional cuts, in-year, to Durham county council’s delivery grant is a prime example of how ring-fencing budget will have in Durham city. often fails, with councils often having almost to invent Perhaps we should not be surprised by the coalition projects on which to justify spending grants. Again, my Government’s callous approach to local government local authority was no exception when it was under and the communities it serves, because, although the Labour control. I recall it spending nearly £70,000 of coalition document says a lot about enabling communities planning delivery grant on audio equipment for the to run services, there is not a single mention of how council chamber to improve the facilitation of council those services will be paid for. Neither is there a single meetings. Until that point, and for some time thereafter, mention of what will be lost by those communities in the council did not even hold planning meetings in the terms of services that they will no longer get from their council chamber. When it did, the new audio system did local councils. I am surprised that our Liberal Democrats little to add value to the planning process or to aid the in Durham, who are normally very good at saying how expeditious construction of new property and houses in they support localism, have been strangely quiet in the the area. past few weeks. Not one of them has come forward to My experience tells me that councils will cope and condemn the outrageous cuts being inflicted on north-east adapt to the changes that the coalition Government are councils. being forced to make. Many councils have already had The Labour-led council in Durham has shown how to learn to work smarter in the past few years and are dreadful the cuts will be for our local communities. The working with other authorities to deliver services in a Department for Communities and Local Government smarter way. That can work especially well. My local has said that it will make a cut of £6.34 million, but it authority has shared services such as payroll, IT, building has announced only the cut to the area-based grant. control and procurement successfully with other local There is, in fact, a cut of £16.8 million, because other authorities. No doubt, councils up and down the country cuts that have not been clearly identified have been will be looking into putting shared arrangements in passed on to local government in relation to transport place. That is an extremely sensible and cost-effective capital, the housing and planning delivery grant, the move. local area agreement award grant and many other areas. To conclude, I am glad that there appears to be such The cuts to Durham county council are savage already, clear water between the Opposition side and the even before the comprehensive spending review in October, Government side. We acknowledge the tough times which we know will go even further. ahead, we are dealing with our debts head-on, we The two Government parties have to answer a number acknowledge that things will be difficult for local of questions. The headline percentage decrease reported government in the next couple of years and we intend to by central Government has been calculated only against allow councils to make their own decisions based on the area-based grant reduction. When other cuts are local need. We intend that local councillors will be freed taken into consideration, the cut to Durham’s budget from the central Government straitjacket that has strangled will not be the 1% presented by the Government, but local government for so many years, so that they can do 4%. Why is there this lack of clarity? 799 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 800

[Roberta Blackman-Woods] The entire business of that private sector delivery organisation is being affected by the requirement for the Analysis of the reductions in grants shows that northern local authority to raise its residential allowances, which authorities have received the largest decreases in funding, will lead to a loss of jobs in the private sector. It also with 31 of the top 50 authorities being in the north. makes no sense to cut the working neighbourhood fund That will add to the problems that we have in trying to and the local enterprise growth initiative, especially in rebuild the economy after the recession and in trying to Durham, where the unemployment level is higher than improve life chances in some of the most disadvantaged the national average. communities in the country. That is not fairness. Why are the Government taking that approach? Do not get me wrong. The council and the regional development agency have worked hard in the last few Perhaps more outrageous still, considering the size of years to try to ensure that unemployment remained at the reductions being made, is how they relate to the much lower levels than those experienced in the recessions index of multiple deprivation. There is a strong trend of of the 1980s and 1990s, and they were very successful in the most deprived authorities receiving the largest budget that regard. However, they need the working neighbourhood cuts. It is simply wrong that the poorest authorities fund and support for local business if they are to ensure seem to be the least protected. Again, the Government that unemployment does not rise further. According to must make it clear to the Chamber why they are attacking the council, it has received funds in the past for projects the most disadvantaged communities in the country the to help people into work, deal with worklessness and most. enhance job creation, but those are the funds that are We have to get past the idea that the cuts are simply being cut now. I consider that action to be disgraceful, cuts to waste, because they are cuts to real services. short-term and short-sighted. It shows no understanding Durham is experiencing a cut to its extended schools of the need for measures to encourage people to seek start-up costs. Providing those services is not profligate; employment. Furthermore, the loss of funds from the they help parents to go to work and they give vital Home Office will reduce the amount of resources for support to children. tackling antisocial behaviour.

Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): How much I could go on and on with the list, but my main point of the cuts, in percentage terms, does the hon. Lady is that if local people were asked where to make cuts, I think that the top officers in Durham have taken on very much doubt that they would prioritise cuts in board themselves and how much does she think is being services that seek to tackle antisocial behaviour or help passed down to front-line services? people back into employment. We all know that cuts have to be made, but the top-down way in which these cuts are being inflicted means that local authorities Roberta Blackman-Woods: It is because the hon. cannot have full control over the areas that they would Gentleman’s Government have cut the area-based grant protect and those in which they would make cuts. It also and additional services that the cuts have to fall in the means that they cannot consult local people. Such a ways that I am describing. It would have been much degree of centralisation imposed by the Government more sensible not to have—[Interruption.] Is the hon. parties, whose members say that they support localism Gentleman going to listen to my answer or not? What I and devolution, is breathtaking. am saying to him is that if we did not have these additional cuts in-year and if there had been a proper As well as not allowing local government time to programme of consultation, it might have been possible— produce a sensible framework for reducing the deficit, [Interruption.] Will the hon. Gentleman let me finish? the Government have provided no clarification in respect It might have been possible to identify other cuts that of key programmes. In the case of Building Schools for would not have had such a direct impact on front-line the Future, that is leading to considerable uncertainty services. The way in which his Government have made in our communities about whether new schools will go these cuts has led to the attack on front-line services. ahead. We need clarification as soon as possible. My local authority wants an open dialogue with the Chris Heaton-Harris: Let us just say that a reasonable Government, and greater consultation within the sector percentage of the cuts have been in the amount spent on on the timing, extent and detail of future reductions so the officers in Durham county council. Can the hon. that they can plan for them properly—and, critically, so Lady tell us how much the Labour county councillors that they can ensure that those who are most vulnerable on Durham county council have cut their allowances? are protected as far as possible from the impact of the cuts that must be made. Roberta Blackman-Woods: Clearly, the hon. Gentleman Why are the Government parties picking on existing did not listen to the answer that I gave him and does not policies—particularly those designed for the long term—that understand the impact that a cut to area-based grant seek to reduce inequality? I have two examples in mind: and other grants has. As I was saying, there will be cuts free school meals and free swimming. The task of not only to extended schools start-up costs, but to the protecting and improving health must not depend entirely careers service and to the Supporting People budget, so on the national health service; we also need local policies they will affect both young and older people. and services that help our young people to develop The cuts are not just to the public sector. The healthier lifestyles and a more sensible approach to Government parties have demonstrated again today their eating habits. The way in which the Government’s that they do not understand the links between the cuts are attacking free school meals will ensure that a public and private sectors. On Friday, I visited one of central plank is removed from our plans for reducing the private nursing homes in my constituency to discuss inequality for the future, and I do not consider that the problems that it was experiencing with its budget. acceptable. 801 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 802

8.25 pm The hon. Gentleman fails to understand that the areas he is on about are precisely the areas that are going to Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): I pay tribute to suffer from the cuts that his Government are making. my hon. Friends the Members for Wolverhampton South We are talking about rich, southern shire counties such West (Paul Uppal) and for Dudley South (Chris Kelly), as Surrey, not his constituency. The hon. Gentleman is who made their maiden speeches today—although they arguing for cuts that will greatly affect those mining villages. caused me a little pain by referring to the mighty rise of Wolverhampton Wanderers and West Bromwich Albion, as I recalled that Nottingham Forest’s efforts to achieve Mr Spencer: The simple fact is that those areas of promotion this year ended in dust. Fortunately, I was Nottinghamshire face enormous challenges. I am glad able to console myself then with the knowledge that, that the hon. Gentleman recognises that some of those come the summer, England would probably win the shire counties face the issues that many hon. Members World cup. claim exist only in Labour seats. We are going to have to deal with the enormous mess that the Labour Government I am becoming increasingly frustrated by the series of left and tidy up some enormous problems. That will be Opposition Members who say, “We would have kept a really big challenge, make no bones about it. Conservative this or that bureaucratic scheme that would have protected Members recognise that it will be a big challenge. I do vulnerable people”, in the next breath say, “We would not think that Labour Members recognise what an have made £40 million worth of cuts”, and in the next enormous problem that is going to be. breath do not specify where they would have made those cuts. Nottinghamshire county council was under the control of Labour for 28 years. In the last 10 years of that Roberta Blackman-Woods: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman Labour control, the council tax doubled. That is the will tell us what is bureaucratic about free school meals, sort of pressure that Labour-controlled county councils especially given the universal pilots in Durham and put on people in the villages I mentioned—on pensioners other areas. and vulnerable people. That was a great shame. Fortunately for the people of Nottinghamshire, the Conservative Mr Spencer: A number of schemes have been tied up party took control of Nottinghamshire county council. in bureaucratic nonsense, and local authorities have had The increase in the council tax this year under Conservative to jump through a number of hoops to deliver centrally control was 0%. I am proud of that, and the council will issued targets that create an enormous amount of attempt to deliver it again next year. It is about protecting bureaucracy for local authorities. I shall say more about and reducing the cost imposed on pensioners and vulnerable that shortly. people in those areas. It is little wonder that the country’s national finances were brought to the brink of an abyss, given the last The hon. Member for City of Durham (Roberta Government’s lack of vision and basic financial Blackman-Woods) mentioned Building Schools for the understanding. We only just avoided the intervention of Future—a good example of how bureaucracy is built the IMF in our finances; we were very close to that, as into policies. BSF was quite a good scheme. Two schools has been widely recognised. in my area—Dukeries college and Joseph Whittaker school—are desperate to be rebuilt. The county council Chris Leslie: What evidence has the hon. Gentleman had to spend £5 million to get itself to a position in that we were on the brink of having the IMF called in? which it could bid, and we have not laid a single brick. That £5 million could have been spent on improving the Mr Spencer: It was widely recognised—globally—that schools rather than jumping through the hoops that the this country’s finances were in dire straits. Global economic previous Government required. markets were betting against our economy. We were saved only by the markets’ recognition that an election Fortunately, the county council is now able to prioritise was coming, and that hopefully a Conservative Government and use the money available to it. One of the statistics would take over. We are in the fortunate position that that sticks in my mind is that for every £7,000 of the coalition has tackled those issues and saved this Government spending available locally only £350 is not country from the enormous abyss it was facing. ring fenced and is available for local authorities to spend in the direction that they want. That is a shocking The only way to deal with local government is to give indictment of the centralisation and control and ring-fencing power back to local government. Local people are that has taken away local autonomy and the ability of much better placed to make local decisions. I welcome local people to make local decisions. Fortunately, some the decentralisation of local government and its councils under Conservative control are able to make management, and I sincerely hope that when we pass the most of that £350 and prioritise things such as new that power down the structure, better decisions will be pavements, filling pot holes and trying to recover some made. I am very much encouraged by the thought that of the damage done by previous administrations. I very that will happen. much welcome that. I am quite frustrated by the number of Opposition Members who have said that the leafy shire counties are The one thing that has really impacted on my all right thank you very much. Hon. Members should constituency is the removal of the regional spatial strategy, come and look at Nottinghamshire and at Sherwood. and I am particularly grateful to the Minister for doing We have some challenges and some areas of real deprivation, that straight away. It put enormous pressure on the such as Ollerton, Rainworth, Blidworth and Bilsthorpe green belt of Nottinghamshire in my constituency. I am right in the middle of Nottinghamshire county. grateful that we can now have a grown-up debate in Sherwood about where housing is to go and what sort Toby Perkins: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman of housing it should be. The sort of housing is just as for referring to some of those areas, many of which are important. In areas of my constituency we have had to former pit villages. I have played cricket in a lot of them. build large houses where, frankly, they are inappropriate. 803 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 804

[Mr Spencer] My constituency straddles two metropolitan boroughs in south Yorkshire, Barnsley and Sheffield. Both have We would be better building social housing so that every reason to remember the last time the Tories were vulnerable people could be housed and younger people in government, as they suffered deeply from the unfair could get on the housing ladder. In other areas, pensioners cuts that were imposed on south Yorkshire local authorities. who live in four or five-bedroom houses on their own Judging by the cuts that the Department for Communities would like to move but cannot because there is nothing and Local Government has already announced, it looks suitable locally. I welcome the fact that we can now as if they have much to fear this time around. It is not as have a grown-up debate about what sort of housing we if they are poor, inefficient authorities; they are not. put into Sherwood and where. We are desperate for the Barnsley metropolitan borough council is renowned for correct sort of housing and for the employment that the quality of its leadership and its efficient use of goes with it. resources, and for having one of the best leaders in local Before the right hon. Member for Southampton, government, Steve Houghton. Recently, through careful Itchen (Mr Denham) left his place, he referred to Ashfield, financial planning, it managed to freeze council tax for my neighbouring constituency, and I would have welcomed old-age pensioners and to give the under-16s not only his coming to look at the town. I was at a manufacturing free swimming but free bus passes. I applaud Barnsley company that falls under Ashfield district council in the on that achievement, which is now under threat. town of Hucknall, called F. J. Bamkin and Son, which Sheffield city council’s efficiency has been praised for made socks for the Ministry of Defence for many years many years, or at least it was when it was Labour-controlled. until the previous Government passed the contract to a The Audit Commission awarded it four stars on many far eastern supplier and, sadly, put enormous pressure occasions, and, although it is right that local authorities on the company. be as efficient as possible, the recently announced The most important thing that we can do is to £1.65 billion of cuts to local authorities will have significant remove some of the ring-fencing from the money that is detrimental impacts on services, especially in places passed to local government, and remove the enormous such as Barnsley and Sheffield. More worryingly, it very amount of bureaucracy that local authorities find in much looks like metropolitan authorities are being asked their way and the hoops that they have to jump through to take a larger share of the cuts, with a reduction of in order to tap into that money. Then, just maybe we £12.22 per head in those areas, compared with an can not only ensure that local people make the right average of £8.75 for English authorities as a whole. If decisions for their local areas, but protect the vulnerable any Government Member can tell me what is fair about people who were so badly let down under the previous that, I will be incredibly impressed. I do not think that Administration. they can. Further analysis shows that cuts have been made 8.36 pm disproportionately in some of the most deprived areas in the country. For instance, Blackburn is ranked at Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): No. 5 on the scale of multiple deprivation and it sees a This is the first opportunity I have had to congratulate cut of 1.7%. Meanwhile, Calderdale, ranked at No. you on your appointment, Mr Deputy Speaker. I 107 on the scale, suffers a 0.6% cut—less than half that congratulate also the hon. Members for Wolverhampton suffered by Blackburn. Interestingly, while shire councils South West (Paul Uppal) and for Dudley South (Chris see only a small cut of 0.3% in their budgets, the mets Kelly) on their confident and assured maiden speeches. are cut, on average, at 0.9%. The right hon. Member for I wanted to find something in common with them and Tatton (Mr Osborne) says that we are all in this together, my constituency, and I noted that they both support but yet again it seems that some are in it more than Wolverhampton Wanderers, who are managed by others. In typical Tory style, it seems that those with the Mick McCarthy. He is a Barnsley lad, and I now least are being asked to pay the price for Tory ideology. represent a part of Barnsley—if people are not aware of where Penistone is. Mick McCarthy is known to frequent How will people’s lives be affected by the cuts already a wonderful Indian restaurant in my constituency, the announced and those that will come later? In a report to Dil Raj, in Dodworth, so there is the connection, and be published shortly, the New Local Government Network one of which I am proud. concludes that many chief executives are saying that libraries, sports centres and street cleaning will be I, like many hon. Friends, have a background in local particularly vulnerable. Those of us with a background government. I was a councillor in Sheffield for almost in local government know that all too well—we remember 10 years, and if I learned anything in that time it was the last time around. that local government is absolutely vital to the smooth, coherent running of our society. Without it, our way of We hear from the Government Benches about the life would soon deteriorate, with all our constituents glories of decentralisation, but let me remind Government suffering the consequences. However, I must tell hon. Members that in 1995 Sheffield set the budget that it Members what the coalition Government seem intent wanted to set, to avoid cuts to libraries and street on doing, because we now know what the big society cleaning. It was told by the Tory Government of the means. It means looking after oneself and doing things time to go back and reset the budget in June that year; for oneself; it means, “I’m all right, Jack”. Potentially the budget was declared illegal. That is not what I call and most worryingly, it means an erosion of the principle decentralisation. of democratic, elected accountability for the delivery of local services. That approach is based on an ideological Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): I hear the belief in the small state; it is not the must-needs issues that the hon. Lady has raised, particularly on approach that Government Members have touted in behalf of the metropolitan borough that she represents. recent weeks. However, does she recall her Government’s voting for 805 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 806 capping motions in the last Parliament, to cap police £4.2 million. Government Members ought to tell me authorities and other authorities, which were subject to how people in Barnsley are going to get to work if their her Government’s decisions to restrict the rates that bus services and transport networks are to be so severely they wanted to set in their areas? impacted by the cuts that are on the table. Interestingly, one of the aims of the coalition was a greener future. Angela Smith: I do indeed remember the capping. I With cuts on this scale, there is no doubt that more am with my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield people will be forced to use private cars. Even more South East (Mr Betts) on this—I do not believe that worrying is the fact that, yet again, it will be the poor capping is right. However, the situation in 1995 was and the old, and those who cannot afford to use a car, incredibly desperate. By that time, we had suffered 15 or who will suffer the most. 16 years of year-on-year cuts. In the mid-1990s, there According to the Chancellor, this is only the beginning, was less cash for the housing budget, in real terms, than with Departments being asked to make, on average, we had had in 1979. By the time Labour came to power 25% cuts in their budgets as the required outcome of in ’97, there was a backlog of £1 billion in the housing the comprehensive spending review. However, with spending budget. on health and international development protected, the I accept criticism of Labour’s record on affordable cuts in some Departments will have to be much larger housing and new housing; I think that the previous than 25%. I started by saying how important I believe Minister for Housing accepted it. But we had a massive local government is. With, in some cases, cuts of about backlog of disinvestment to deal with. 38% being talked about, I fear very deeply that there are many things that local authorities will not be able to do George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): You had 13 years. in future. Let us settle once and for all the claim that this Angela Smith: We had 13 years, but we dealt with it coalition is progressive. The poor, the vulnerable and and now almost every single council house in this the least well-off will suffer the most as these cuts bite. country is up to standard. As Brendan Barber has said, Many chief executives are expecting a tsunami of “Not just the poor, but those on middle incomes will pay a cumulative funding cuts, with many saying that they heavy price for the government’s rush to close the deficit…and will ramp up charges for sales, fees and services. The rising joblessness will add up to a perfect storm”. hon. Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) talked about Never mind fixing the roof while sun is shining—this local government bureaucracy, particularly in relation coalition Government are set to trigger the perfect to the example of free school meals given by my hon. storm. Friend the Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods). Finland manages to provide free Several hon. Members rose— school meals for every child from four to 19, without Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Hoyle): Order. Before I call the bureaucracy mentioned by the hon. Gentleman. I the next Member, I remind the House that we have quite do not accept his argument, and the cuts to free school a lot of Members who want to speak. It would be very meals pilots will not be forgotten. helpful if we could shorten speeches, because I would The revenue cut for Barnsley is £2.75 million, a like to try to ensure that everybody contributes. 1% cut to be put in place over a nine-month period—or, when other cuts are added, a £3.2 million cut in cash 8.47 pm terms. However, the main focus of the cuts in Barnsley Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): Thank you, is the £1.7 million cut in the education area grant, Mr Deputy Speaker, for inviting me to speak in this whereby vulnerable children will be disproportionately debate. First, I join other Members in congratulating affected. When that is coupled with a cut of £750,000 to my hon. Friends the Members for Wolverhampton South the working neighbourhoods fund, it becomes obvious West (Paul Uppal) and for Dudley South (Chris Kelly) that the deprived, and those who most need help in on their very fine maiden speeches. Barnsley, are being targeted by the coalition. What we have heard from Labour Members throughout Sheffield is England’s fourth largest city and ranks at the debate has been a reinvention of the past 13 years. No. 63 on the scale of multiple deprivation. Its cut is They have talked about a number of schemes that are £6.5 million, or 1% of its budget, over nine months. desperately important, very much needed, and must be This cut in funding has to be put alongside the withdrawal funded, many of which, I am sure, have been very of £12 million of funding for the cleaning up of the welcome and have done sterling work. However, the Outokumpu site, the withdrawal of £12 million of funding question is where was the money going to keep coming for the redevelopment of the city centre, and the cancellation from. At the front of the Red Book, there is a stark of the £80 million loan to Forgemasters, all of which chart showing that for 2010-11 Government receipts mean that the coalition seems to have taken a sledgehammer were to be about £578 billion and Government spending to the city, making Sheffield probably one of the worst more than £600 billion. That is unsustainable even in affected cities in terms of the impact of the coalition’s the short term, and that is why this Government are ideological approach to government. having to take the very tough decisions that have been If that were the end of the story, it would be bad discussed at great length today. enough, but on top of these cuts the national funding The hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge for local transport plans has been reduced by 25%, with (Angela Smith) talked about decent homes funding. I a number of major schemes, including improvements to would like her to explain to my local arm’s length the road network, now being put on hold. In addition, management organisation, Charnwood Neighbourhood the local integrated transport authority has indications Housing, why it thought that it was going to be bidding of a 38% cut, which could mean for Barnsley a cut of for decent homes funding and then found that that 807 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 808

[Nicky Morgan] area assessment, and that the £29 billion formula grant remains intact. Talking of the comprehensive area money had been diverted to build more social housing. assessment, councils across Leicestershire used to employ I do not disagree that more social housing may be 90 full-time staff to prepare 3,000 individual data items, needed, but that was another example of the game leading to 83 inspections at a cost of £3.7 million a year. changes in the middle of the year about which Labour I defy any hon. Member, particularly any Opposition Members have complained so bitterly. Member, to tell me that that could not be better spent The hon. Member for City of Durham (Roberta on front-line services. Blackman-Woods) talked about free school meals. Perhaps I am conscious of your exhortation not to speak for she could explain to a constituent who recently wrote to too long, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I wish to make two me about this why she and her husband, who are still more points. First, we have heard a lot this afternoon together, struggling on a low income, and who really about decentralisation, and I particularly welcome the need free school meals for their children are unable to Government’s first move to abolish the regional spatial get them, while children of parents who have split up, strategies. That is a huge step forward and has been with at least one parent certainly able to afford school welcomed enormously by my constituents. They recognise meals, are getting them. that new houses need to be built, but they are incredibly concerned about where they are to be built. It is welcome Angela Smith: May I remind the hon. Lady that the that elected local councillors will make decisions about free schools meals pilot was about giving them to all that. children? I agree entirely with what the right hon. Member for Nicky Morgan: That brings us back to the point that Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) said about the need my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) for creativity and innovation in the delivery of services. made about bureaucratic schemes, in many of which the That is absolutely right, and there has been too much help is not getting to the people who actually need it. overlap between what central and local government do. This has been an interesting debate, and it was particularly I am sure that we all have talented councillors in our interesting to listen to the three former Secretaries of constituencies, and many Members have spoken about State and the former Housing Minister on the Opposition their local government experience. Talented councillors Benches. I feel I should declare that I have never been a and staff do not need Whitehall and central Government councillor, and I have learned a great deal about local breathing down their necks. government finance this afternoon, not least all the I am sure I am not the only Member who is happy to acronyms. I speak in this debate as a council tax payer, say that they do not want to say too much about local and I agree that local government is incredibly important. planning matters, particularly when they boil down to For many people who have come to my surgery so far, extensions here or there, and so on. I am happy, and their experience of government comes from dealing believe it is right, to leave it to the local planning with local government, whether through the administration authority and planning committee members to decide of benefits, council tax, rubbish collection, social services on such matters. This Budget provides an opportunity or particularly education, the funding for which I shall to reinvigorate local authorities by allowing our local come on to in a short while. The Local Government councils really to take charge of local issues. I wish to Association has said that town halls have already committed make a plea to the Government and the Minister, to making 4% efficiency savings this year, so they are however. I am concerned about recent changes to legislation leading the way where the former Government failed to on the conversion of houses to HMOs—houses in do so. multiple occupation. Although I welcome the fact that As I mentioned in an intervention, one of the former local authorities are to make decisions on that, as they Secretaries of State said that Labour had identified know their local areas best, if they are to do so they £40 billion-worth of cuts, but we do not know where need regulations that have teeth. In my constituency, those cuts were to be made. I believe that everybody in the conversion of houses into student-occupied homes the House agrees that cuts have to be made. The former is a matter of real concern. Housing Minister, the right hon. Member for Don Valley Total Place has been mentioned this afternoon. I am (Caroline Flint), talked about progress having stalled. I not an expert, but I know that in Leicester and suggest to her and other hon. Members that progress Leicestershire, Total Place has been considering drug stalled when the former Government ran up a deficit of and alcohol treatment. It is a huge step forward, which £156 billion, which will lead to £70 billion of interest is to be welcomed, and I endorse comments from hon. being paid—more than the budgets for education and Members of all parties about the way in which Total many other things put together. Place has worked. I hope that it will continue. There has been little mention of council tax levels— The trouble with speaking late in a debate is that although since I scribbled a note saying that, council tax other hon. Members often steal one’s thunder, and my has been mentioned. The level has increased, and in fact hon. Friend the Member for North West Leicestershire in Charnwood it more than doubled in the 13 years of (Andrew Bridgen), who is no longer in his place, did the Labour Government. That has hit those on fixed that effectively when he spoke about spending on education incomes, particularly pensioners, very hard. I was in Leicestershire, so I will not say too much about that. approached by many pensioners during the election However, I left the Chamber earlier to meet some campaign who talked to me about how they were struggling schoolchildren from De Lisle school in Loughborough. to make council tax payments on a fixed income. When I told them that I hoped to speak in the debate, There has been talk this afternoon about ring-fencing. they immediately asked what I would say, and I said I welcome the fact that the Government have scrapped that I would talk about funding for education in £1.7 billion of ring-fencing and got rid of the comprehensive Leicestershire. My hon. Friend the Member for North 809 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 810

West Leicestershire pointed out that the funding gap there tabled a similar motion, and I hope that the same between schools in Leicester and in Leicestershire is result does not occur in Birmingham, because the Liberal now £600. The trouble is that there is no difference in Democrat and Conservative councillors in Sefton decided national pay rates for staff, so schools in Leicestershire not to turn up to debate how to deal with the Budget have less to spend on other things if they rightly want to crisis and the Government’s national cuts. retain a decent staff-pupil ratio. They were penalised when the direct support grant was introduced because Jack Dromey: It would appear that, in your local Leicestershire had topped up school funding. The difference authority, they have found Lord Lucan, and they are between average funding in the country and that for our now looking for the Liberal Democrat and Tory councillors. schools in Leicestershire meant that a 300-place primary In Birmingham, they are going to have to stand up and school in Leicestershire would be £99,000 worse off be counted. every year. That cannot be right. There is a grotesque contrast between the £2 billion levy on the banks—not on the bankers, by the way—on My hon. Friend the Member for North West the one hand, and £11 billion off welfare and £12 billion Leicestershire also mentioned police funding. In on VAT on the other. I want to take this opportunity to Leicestershire, we have received £9 million less than the pay tribute to the leadership shown last night by the average in the past four years. Despite all that, Leicestershire truly honourable Members for Colchester (Bob Russell) county council still managed a four-star rating. That and for Portsmouth South (Mr Hancock) when they shows that, with good management and good political voted against their own Government in opposition to leadership from councillors, local authorities can run the VAT increase. services to a high standard on less money than they The shadow Secretary of State was absolutely right would ideally like. to point out earlier that the areas with the greatest I support the amendment. The Opposition have totally needs should not bear the brunt of the cuts. Birmingham reinvented and forgotten the past 13 years, and all the has great problems of multiple deprivation and high projects and schemes that have been mentioned. The unemployment, yet, as a consequence of the Budget, it Government are now taking tough decisions, which will see the biggest cash reduction—more than £12 million. mean that, in several years, we can fund our services It will have the largest cut in area-based grant in any fully, and help the vulnerable and the poor who have local authority in Britain, at £8 million, and the seventh been mentioned in today’s debate. largest cut to the school development fund, at £633,000. That money was designed to help struggling schools to 8.57 pm succeed. Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): The Birmingham will have the second largest cut to Budget is bad news for Birmingham, a proud city, Connexions, at £2.7 million. This will harm the ability which suffered grievously in the 1980s and now faces of our city to help the young into work and to get unprecedented cuts in public investment. Why? The apprenticeships. It will also have the largest cut to the Con-Dem alliance says that it is Labour’s legacy, but it children’s fund, at £1.14 million. That will damage the is nothing of the kind. The Greek defence that it prays capacity of our city to reach out to disabled, disadvantaged, in aid is but an excuse for the modern Tory party— troubled and sometimes abandoned children. It will modern-day Leninists—to cut back the role of the state also see the largest cut to the working neighbourhoods nationally and locally. As for the Liberal Democrats—a fund—a highly successful programme of concentrated, hollow shell of the once great, progressive party of co-ordinated, community-led action to get Birmingham’s Lloyd George, Beveridge and Keynes—never have so citizens off benefit and into work. few let down so many for so little: a handful of ministerial I have seen these programmes at first hand, in the cars and Red Boxes. form of the remarkable Employment Needs Training Birmingham was the birthplace of municipal government Agency in my constituency, and three excellent employment and municipal enterprise. It is Europe’s biggest council, Connexions contracts focusing on the long-term which employs more than 40,000 and funds thousands unemployed, lone parents, ex-offenders, those who have of community projects and voluntary initiatives. It is a engaged in alcohol abuse, and those who lost their jobs key purchaser of goods and services from the midlands under Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s and never worked economy. It is also, historically, a champion of the again. Those programmes have an outstanding track people of Birmingham. In the best traditions of record of reaching out to those people, giving them Chamberlain on the one hand and Dick Knowles on hope, and helping them to rebuild their lives and get the other, next Tuesday, Sir Albert Bore and the Labour back into work. group on Birmingham city council will table a motion Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): The hon. for debate that calls on all councillors to stand up and Gentleman speaks eloquently about the problems in be counted in opposition to what the Tories said they Birmingham without telling us how we got there in the would not do and the Liberals said they should not do: first place. Does he think that borrowing £500 million, put up VAT. The motion calls on councillors to speak not every month or every week but every day, represents out against a broken promise—an unfair tax that will responsible behaviour towards the people of Birmingham? hit pensioners, the unemployed and the poor hardest, and a jobs tax, which will hit the economy of the Jack Dromey: We have a problem as a consequence of midlands, from house building to retail. people like you: bankers. Nadhim Zahawi: I am not a banker. Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): My hon. Friend’s comments about the motion that the Labour group in Jack Dromey: There are more bankers on the Birmingham will table remind me of what happened at Government green Benches than there are in the square a Sefton council meeting last week. The Labour group mile of the City of London. 811 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 812

[Jack Dromey] Jack Dromey: Our approach was fundamentally different. We think that it is folly to cut savagely and quickly. It Those admirable community projects’ money will run risks threatening the economy with a double-dip recession out in March 2011, and they are now facing a cut of up and it is cities like Birmingham that would suffer grievously to one third. The impact of that on those projects and as a consequence. those communities will be absolutely devastating. We are already seeing the consequences of what the Con-Dem alliance is doing, not only in government but Sajid Javid: I am a former banker. I can see that the locally in the council chamber. The parties have been in hon. Gentleman is probably still a trade unionist, rather power for six years. Earlier this year, 2,000 job cuts were than a former trade unionist. Does he realise that his announced, hitting hard nurseries, youth services, park party lost the election because it brought our country to rangers and the most vulnerable in our community—those the brink of bankruptcy? We are having to impose these in local old people’s homes. I was in an old people’s cuts because of everything that you did or failed to do. home in Kingstanding and I met excellent men and They are your cuts, and there is no point in complaining women. After our discussion, an 80-year-old woman about them now. took me to one side and told me the story of how she Jack Dromey: Thank you for owning up to your had had a double mastectomy and her wounds opened former occupation. I wonder whether you wish us to up at 3 o’clock one morning. She could not get help, take any other offences into consideration— because there were no longer wardens on site. She had to ring a call centre 150 miles away. She was eventually Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. Members must show a told to ring 999, but mercifully her son was 3 miles little more respect. There must be less of the “you”, and down the road and he came out to take her to hospital. they must go through the Chair. My view is simple: the good men and women of Birmingham who built that city and this country, and Jack Dromey: I was fascinated by the earlier contribution who are now in the twilight of their years, deserve better of the hon. Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), in than to be abandoned by this Con-Dem alliance. You which he demanded equal treatment for Bromsgrove will; we never will. and Birmingham. Forgive me for saying this: if you cannot tell the difference between Eton, Esher and Erdington, I can. 9.8 pm The cuts falling on my city are in grotesque contrast Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): Perhaps to what is happening in West Oxfordshire district council we could inject a dose of reality into the debate at this area, where not 1p is coming off the working late stage. Listening to speeches by Labour Members, I neighbourhoods fund. Whose constituency falls in that could not help but be struck by the old adage, which area? It is that of the Prime Minister. they have obviously forgotten, that “You can’t spend It is vital that we have an intelligent approach to the what you don’t have.” Interestingly, Labour members role of government. We have the example in the west have clearly adopted the posture of collective amnesia midlands of Advantage West Midlands, a hugely successful when it comes to why this country is in this financial organisation responsible for creating and safeguarding state and this economic mess, and why substantial tens of thousands of jobs, but now facing abolition. It is savings are necessary in the Budget—it is because of no wonder that leading voices in the private sector are their mismanagement of our economy. Why is it that of speaking out in opposition to that decision, which every £4 spent in this country, £1 is borrowed? How would be folly if we believe in the importance of a prudent is that? Why is it that 1 million nursing hours a renaissance of our manufacturing base. However, the week are spent on paperwork? It is because of Labour. issue is not only the work that AWM does in promoting Why is it there are as many managers in the national our manufacturing economy. It is also the work that it health service as there are beds? It is because of Labour. does in terms of the big society. I was at the opening of Why is it that the police spend 22% of their time on the Perry Common community hall the Friday before paperwork and only 14% on patrol? It is because of last. That was an excellent community initiative, with mismanagement by Labour. inspiring leadership from a local community that has Labour had 13 years to make the so-called improvements been through very tough times. That community hall that it now claims we ought to make. Why did it not could never have been opened without half the money make those improvements? With the greatest respect, being made available by AWM. Can we therefore stop Labour Members are suffering from what can be called posing big government against big society? What we see ostrich syndrome. They are sticking their heads in the in Perry Common is an ideal combination of big sand, but the problem is that their hindquarters are still government and big society working together. exposed. The hindquarters of this ostrich are there for Ms Bagshawe: The right hon. and learned Member all to see. It is disrespectful to the electorate to think for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) has so far that they are not intelligent enough to know why we are failed to explain exactly where Labour would have in this position. Why else did Labour achieve only found savings in the unlikely event that it had been 29% of the vote in last month’s general election—its returned to power. As the hon. Gentleman is in love lowest in quite some time? The electorate can see who is with every single expensive programme, can he indicate responsible for the state of the nation’s economy—Labour. where we might be able to cut to save some money? Speakers today and yesterday have railed against threatened cuts and savings, but these are Labour cuts. Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. May I remind Members All day, public bodies have been cited and lists of that they should come into the Chamber a little earlier endangered services highlighted, but Labour Members if they want to intervene? We are up against time. have made no acknowledgement of who pays for them—the 813 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 814 taxpayer—and no suggestions about what Labour would regime. Despite opposition from local residents, from do in respect of the cuts that are so obviously necessary. the local councils, from the planning committee on the After all, we hear from some of them that billions of borough council and from Members of Parliament— pounds of cuts are necessary and would have been including my Labour predecessor, I might add—a decision necessary had we been in the unfortunate but highly was taken to build 111 compact homes on green-belt unlikely circumstances of a Labour victory last month. land in a gateway area to the town where traffic is Again, however, there is no collective memory of these already heavy. That was pushed through by a Labour- issues. created quango. Around the country, people are left Labour’s tax-and-spend policies ended on such an feeling entirely disconnected from the powers that make irresponsible note that its Ministers were making spending these decisions. commitments in the dying weeks of the last Administration which the country simply could not afford. “Grossly Andrea Leadsom: Will my hon. Friend give way? irresponsible” is not a sufficient phrase. Those outside this place who were led up the garden path by Labour Michael Ellis: I will not, forgive me; Mr Deputy will realise that these are Labour cuts when programmes Speaker has indicated that we are in a rush. have to be cut. Labour acted like a tenant who has In conclusion, we need to introduce new powers to fallen out with their landlord and decided in the last few help local communities to save facilities and services weeks of their tenancy to spend as much as possible on threatened with closure, giving communities the right to utilities and then do a runner on the last month’s take over local state-run services. We need to cut the red tenancy arrangement. tape and look with reality, unlike Labour Members, at In common with a number of largely rural shire what needs to be done to improve this country’s economy counties, which have been spoken of with some disrespect and to improve the state of democracy for our local by Labour Members today, Northamptonshire residents people and their elected representatives. suffered severe prejudice in terms of central Government funding during the 13 years of the Labour Government. 9.16 pm Strangely, this phenomenon was not evident in Labour-held Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): When the hon. or Labour-marginal areas over those 13 years. The Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis) suggested funding that Northamptonshire receives is based on that we were going to get a dose of reality, I was out-of-date statistics calculating our population at several hopeful, but, sadly, those hopes were dashed. It is ironic tens of thousands—about 10%—less than the reality. that on a day when the Secretary of State should have In a county whose population has been increasing been here answering the charge of betraying local councils, exponentially—Northamptonshire is the fastest growing he should instead—like the spectre of Tory cuts past— county in the country—the use by central Government return to Bradford, where he would no doubt have of these seriously out-of-date figures under the Labour asked for many other crimes to be taken into account. regime has had an unfair effect on Northamptonshire. What we are seeing, of course, is simply the return to No doubt Conservative Ministers will be looking at the Tory cuts from which local government suffered so these figures in due course, but I want to emphasise badly in the 1980s. the point. I spoke this morning to the leader of One thing that stands out from this whole debate is Northamptonshire county council, who confirmed that the fact that the Liberal Democrats have not been Northamptonshire is the fastest growing county in the involved in it. As far as I am aware, there has been only United Kingdom. The Office for National Statistics’ one contribution from them—from the hon. Member figures are two years out of date. More than 10,000 more for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming)—yet the people live in Northamptonshire than the statisticians Liberal Democrats were supposed to be the party of think, and of course those people use Northamptonshire local government. Here we are discussing 20% of the schools, bin collections and the like. This imbalance total cuts being made this year falling on the local between the fastest growing county and our underfunding government sector, and the Liberal Democrats are absent— costs the county £5 million a year—the equivalent of absent without leave. I think it is simply scandalous that 2% on council tax. Yet Northamptonshire has the lowest a party that prides itself on its contribution to local council tax in the United Kingdom—£30 a year lower, government should refuse even to engage in the debate. at band D, than the second lowest placed. Local government has not had a fair deal. Even in the Local government finance accounts for 25% of the current climate, local government has taken far more budget, so what needs to happen? Well, there needs to than its fair share of the cuts that have come this year. be decentralisation, and I am delighted to see that the The cuts coming in future years will undoubtedly fall coalition Government are already moving in that direction. most substantially on the most deprived people in our There needs also to be an end to the obsessive red tape communities. that Labour Members have created—the bureaucracy, Given the limitations of time, I want to focus on one the extreme state control—and there also needs to be an particular area—the impact of the cuts on the voluntary end to the top-down diktats. We need the axing of sector. I spent the weekend at the Old Whittington and unelected and ineffective quangos, while radical reform Brimington galas in Chesterfield. There were numerous of the planning system is also necessary to give examples of great community groups there. In every neighbourhoods far more power to determine the shape single case, they were worried about the funding they of the places in which their inhabitants live. would receive. How can the Conservative Government In Northampton North, the constituency that I have possibly create the big society when the voluntary sector, the honour to represent, there have been examples—one which will be fundamental to it, is going to face such in particular in the Booth Rise area—of how we have substantial cuts in their funding when these local suffered under the Labour Government’s style of planning government cuts go through? 815 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 816

[Toby Perkins] five years, but the pattern is repeated. Has Croydon suddenly lost a large chunk of population, or are we What needs to be acknowledged is the vital role that suddenly a much more affluent place than we were a few local government plays in our society as the founding years ago? No. The system makes no sense whatever. stone and bedrock of democracy. As to the funding cuts to area-based grants, they will specifically target the The London borough that is most similar to us is most deprived communities. What we have seen, then, is Enfield. It receives £423 per head of population, whereas an ideological Budget and an ideological decision that Croydon receives £348. If we received the same level of specifically disadvantages the poorest people and reduces funding as the borough that is most like us, we could cut the ability of those in the more deprived communities council tax bills by £200 per head. In London, we have to work their way out of poverty. It is a strategy of the nonsense of the area cost adjustment that divides diminishing local government and scrapping the measures London up into three areas and pretends that the that would demonstrate the damage being done. Many London borough of Croydon can pay people a lot less of the measures the Government are currently taking than the London borough of Sutton right next door. will, under the cloak of reducing bureaucracy, actually That is complete nonsense. The system is in urgent need reduce the accountability of local government and other of reform, yet we have heard nothing from the Opposition public sector organisations, and reduce the ability of about any of these issues. the public to hold those services to account. It is all part On savings, let me repeat something that I said in the of the seizing of power by the Secretary of State under Budget debate. Almost every Labour Member who has the cloak of localism. contributed today has said that we are driven by some These measures will reduce the ability of councils to kind of ideological passion to slash public services. The provide their services. Council leaders know that when NHS saved my life when I was seven years old and had they want to provide their services they will be told they lymphatic cancer, and I also have two sons at state have more power, but they will not have the money to school. The most urgent issues in my constituency are deliver the services, and neither will they have the ability the need for more police officers on the streets and the to raise the money because the Secretary of State is need to do a better job of repairing our roads. I did not informing them that they cannot increase council tax. come to this place to slash public services, but I and my Therefore, what they will actually have is simply a constituents know that the Government cannot continue choice between scrapping services, which will disadvantage to spend money that they do not have. That does not the most deprived people in our community, and hiking work in the long term. up charges on a whole raft of services, which will mean There is real scope for making savings in local fewer people access them. government—my council saved 6.8% in the previous If the Secretary of State genuinely wants to make financial year—but there is no doubt that the level of efficiencies, then let us see a commitment to Total Place, savings envisaged over the course of this Parliament is which is the ideal way of supporting partnership working significant and will lead to some really tough decisions to deliver the changes to communities and of reworking for local authorities across the country. I have to say to spending to be more efficient. That will also engage Opposition Members that although the Chancellor has other organisations to work with local government, so proposed going further than the Labour party was we can create a progressive society out of the situation proposing, we are protecting fewer departmental budgets we are in, rather than our having these savage cuts that so in terms of the unprotected Departments there is will disadvantage the most deprived people in our actually very little difference between the plans. People communities. who have sat here listening to the debate all day, as I have, would not have got that impression, however. 9.21 pm May I end by making a few pleas to my Front-Bench Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): I will try to colleagues? They can do a number of things to make limit the length of my remarks to five minutes so as to this situation easier for local authorities. First, they can allow others to speak. press forward with the proposal for a general power of competence. In London, we used to have a mutual The shadow Secretary of State set the tone for the arrangement between the borough councils to buy debate. There was some good knockabout, but one got insurance, but it was ruled to be illegal. Bulk purchasing the impression that he does not actually understand the of that kind can save local authorities sizeable amounts system that he was administering until very recently, of money. I also agree, actually, with something that and he had nothing to say about the fundamental was said by the Opposition about the Total Place initiative. problems with local government finance in this country. Croydon was a pilot for early years, to which a lot of The reality is that councils are too dependent on central bureaucracy is attached. There is real potential to drive Government for their funding, and too much of the up savings over the long term in that regard. money that they get from central Government is controlled by central Government in respect of how they can Finally, I ask that we look at the possibility of working spend it. Also, the grants system that is used to distribute across the public sector. In Croydon we have a PCT that money is hugely complex, not transparent, unpredictable is coterminous with the council. There are separate and unfair. finance directors, separate human resources departments, separate properties. If we can bring the different bits of Let me give an example involving my own local the public sector together, there is huge potential for authority. In this financial year, Dorset county council saving money and protecting our front-line services. received the largest increase in the country: 7.1%. The England average was 2.6%, and Croydon got 1.5%. I There is so much more that I could have said, but will not take up time by going back over the past four or other Members want to speak so I will take my seat. 817 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 818

9.25 pm The Labour group called a meeting in Sefton, and the Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): I keep hearing Tory and Lib Dem councillors refused to turn up to from Tory MPs claiming that these are Labour cuts. take part in a debate about where the cuts should fall Well, it is quite simple: if you do not like the cuts or do and how the budget should be managed. That was an not agree with them—if you think they are Labour abdication by the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats cuts—vote against them; do not impose them. It is a in Sefton, and the same tactic is clearly being tried by very simple point, but it is an opportunity open to all the Government, because they are asking councils to Members on the Government Benches, Tories and Lib make cuts with no guidance, in-year, and yet the worst Dems. is still to come. A further £504 million of cuts have yet to be specified, so the worst is yet to come in this year. Of course, the reality is very different. The truth is What the right-wing Tory-Lib Dem coalition Government that these are Tory and Lib Dem cuts, and they are in Parliament are doing is the same as what the right-wing enjoying making them. The face of the Secretary of coalition in Sefton is doing: they are abdicating their State says it all: he is looking forward to them, and he responsibility and they are going to hit the poorest has form on this, as other Members have said. If it is hardest. not the ideological passion of the hon. Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell) to make these cuts, then what is it? Economists have shown us that if we 9.30 pm make these cuts now, they will be far too deep and far Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): In light of too early for the economic recovery to be sustained. the time, I shall be very brief. My hon. Friends have well Cuts in-year in local government are unheard of. made the point that the tough decisions that our Front- They are unplanned, and they undermine what councils Bench team and the Government are making are based and local people want to achieve in their communities. I on the deficit that we have inherited and that that is a spent 15 years as a local councillor, and I remember problem that we must deal with. I shall not take up time when the then Secretary of State was first getting started discussing that issue, because it has been well covered. on this issue. I remember the leaky school buildings, the I wish to discuss my experience as a councillor for outside toilets, the teachers buying equipment out of more than a decade under the old Labour Government; their own pockets. I am proud that Labour fixed the I was also a council leader. When I listened to the roof while the sun was shining. I am proud that we built shadow Secretary of State waxing lyrical about what new schools, bought the textbooks, employed the support the Labour Government did on local government and staff who freed teachers to teach, and provided free what they had planned I did not recognise the fairy tale nursery places. being told. The local government that I remember as a My friends’ children have older brothers and sisters councillor and council leader is one where my officers who went through the nursery system and went to wasted countless weeks throughout the year; they were school before there were free nursery places—before not providing front-line services and were not looking Sure Start was available to them. Their parents tell me at how we could do more for our residents, but were the difference that the younger children have seen as a ticking boxes, filling in forms and keeping different result of that Labour investment, of which I am very auditors and quangos happy. At the time of the recent proud, and I will fight hard to protect it, as will other announcement of cuts for local government, I was on Labour Members. BBC “Look East” talking about Great Yarmouth and While I was a local government children’s services its 2% cut. Labour Members would say that this has spokesman, I saw at first hand how many essential happened only in certain areas, but that is not the case services are provided by education departments and because Great Yarmouth’s authority had one of the social services, and the difference they make to the biggest cuts. children and families who depend on those services. My local authority, which I am proud of, has turned Sure Start children’s centres are among a number of around and said, “We can deal with this. Any good such examples. However, under threat from these cuts is business can deal with a 2% cut, so we can deal with it the extended schools grant. It makes a huge difference and we will do so without dealing with front-line services.” to children who otherwise would not have breakfast to I said to the leader of my local council, “If we could be able to go to breakfast clubs. It makes a huge wave a magic wand and if central Government could difference that children can go to after-school clubs, make life easier, faster and better for the council and, and that working families are able to get by. The cuts to more importantly, for the residents of Great Yarmouth, those grants will make a profound difference. They will what thing could we do? Is it provide more money?” He cause real hardship for many children, young people said no. and their families. When I speak to councillors—I found that this was Thanks to the services now available, vulnerable children the case when I was a councillor too—I am told that have a much better chance in life and an opportunity to this is not necessarily about the money, but about the get out of the cycle of deprivation, neglect and poor ability to deliver services. It is about the ability to have health that was previously the lot they faced in life. So real power and to make decisions locally on matters the cuts in those services really will hurt those who can that matter to people locally.I fully support the Government least afford to suffer them. and I give great credit to my right hon. Friend the In Sefton we are facing £2.1 million in education Secretary of State for the work that the Government are service cuts. Cuts in local education services mean not doing so quickly to devolve power to local authorities. I the money that is going straight to schools, but the say bring on more, so that we can get residents in areas money that is there to support schools. So it is smoke such as Great Yarmouth to see that their council matters and mirrors to claim that these cuts will not affect and their vote matters, because their councillors will be schools: they will, and badly. making decisions that will affect their lives, not ticking 819 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 820

[Brandon Lewis] citizens throughout the country rely on the very council services that he wants to destroy. He knows, but he just boxes for central Government and suits in Whitehall. I does not care. He also knows that despite the local will therefore be fully supporting the amendment, and I government aberration that was Bradford city council say that the more power we can give to local councils to under his leadership, it was local government that helped deliver local powers locally with residents, the better. to lead the resistance to the malevolent policies of Margaret Thatcher’s and John Major’s Administrations. 9.32 pm It was local authorities— Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): Local government has been at the vanguard of progressive Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con) rose— change for more than a century. Some of the most significant and innovative advances originated in local Chris Williamson: No, I will not give way. It was local government. The introduction of modern sewerage systems authorities such as Derby county council that resisted in our towns and cities, the replacement of slum dwellings the Tories’ wicked attempts to starve the miners back to with decent public housing, the development of work during their year-long strike. What Derbyshire comprehensive schools and the provision of care for county council did was to ensure that the miners’ families elderly and disabled people are just a few examples of had enough food to eat. It was councils— the improvements brought about by local government. When the Tories were last in power they did their Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con) rose— level best to annihilate local government, and now that they are back they have set their sights on finishing the Chris Williamson: No, I will not give way. It was job. It is the local government equivalent of the return councils such as Derby and Nottingham city councils of the Daleks, with the right hon. Member for Brentwood that resisted the Tories’ absurd bus deregulation policy and Ongar (Mr Pickles) playing the role of Davros, the by establishing arm’s length public transport companies. supreme leader of the Daleks, determined to exterminate The Secretary of State knows that by emasculating progressive local government once and for all, aided local government, he will make it much harder for and abetted by the Cybermen Liberal Democrats. The councils to stand up to this Con-Dem coalition, yet in Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government true Orwellian double-speak he recently told the should be standing up for local government, not seeking ConservativeHome blog site that he was to strike it down. “completely committed to localism and handing power back to Given the Secretary of State’s dismal record as leader people”— of Bradford city council, where he first gained his that is, handing power back to people to make cuts. notoriety for vicious cuts, we should not be too surprised that he is now using the national stage to inflict his cuts agenda on the whole country. An article published last 9.37 pm year in The Independent reminded us about his period as leader of Bradford city council. It stated that Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): I think I have three minutes to make my speech, and I thank the hon. “having gained control of the Conservatives’ only inner-city council” Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson) for sitting down. he “set about an unprecedented round of cuts, sell-offs, price rises We have heard so much hot air from the Opposition, and job losses. At the first meeting, £5.8 million was cut from the it is unbelievable. I am glad to be able to speak at the budget, chiefly in education. Council rents went up. So did last minute, so that we can have some common sense. I charges for leisure centres, car parks, school meals, home helps, do not think that the Opposition realise that they lost meals on wheels, OAP luncheon clubs and cemeteries.” the general election. They lost the general election He did not finish there. The article goes on to say: because they have no idea of the economic damage that “Teachers, caretakers, maintenance workers, crèche and nursery they have done to our country. They have done that staff, social workers and council officers all lost their jobs. Old damage throughout our economy, including in local people’s homes were sold off and Benefit Advice Centres closed.” government finance. They have done that damage in Sounds familiar, does it not? local government finance because they have not understood that the allocation of local government funding should The Secretary of State for Communities and Local have been based on the needs of individuals in each Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The hon. Gentleman constituency and not on petty party politics. When we should realise that the only people who sold off old look at the areas in which local government funding peoples’ homes were in the Labour council that followed. fell, we can see that wherever there were Labour voters, He should realise that there were more teachers at the that was where the money went. It was not based at all end of my period as leader of the council. The people on the needs of individuals. who cut the teaching numbers were in the Labour As the Government make the reforms, we must ensure council. that the changes reflect the needs. Let us take one example from my constituency. Local school children Chris Williamson: As Corporal Jones used to say, got £900 less per head per year than those in neighbouring “They don’t like it up ’em,” do they? The sad fact is that Birmingham. If anyone from the Opposition thinks the Secretary of State for Communities and Local that there are not vulnerable people in Bromsgrove, Government knows from his period as council leader they are welcome to come and visit and I shall take that his cuts package will hit the poorest areas the them around myself and show them just how similar hardest and he knows that some of our most vulnerable parts of my constituency are to urban Birmingham. 821 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 822

No matter what the constituency, none of them are 22 June showed, Connexions Positive Activities for uniformly affluent or poor. Areas of wealth and deprivation Young People and free school meals are highly visible exist in them all and the needs of the vulnerable in my services that will be cut the most. The Chairman of the constituency are no less valid than those of the vulnerable Select Committee also pointed that out. Just as there in the constituencies of Opposition Members. As we are was nothing in the Government’s Budget for younger forced to make Labour’s cuts to local government spending, people, so there is nothing for younger people in these it is essential that we also devolve local decision making cuts. The Government are removing subsidies from the and cut bureaucracy. Let me end by saying that we must six-month offer and they are ending the second tranche make sure that never again is local government funding of the future jobs fund—all that means 40,000 to 80,000 allocated according to petty party politics. It should be youth jobs going. allocated according to local need. I support the amendment. Those decisions are not based on evidence. The editor of the Local Government Chronicle has said that in this 9.40 pm short-term world—the short-term world that Members on the Government Benches inhabit—it is judgment Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): We and ideology that are key to decision making. As I used have had the benefit of a full day’s debate and, by to be told at school, it is like the old speakers’ notes, goodness, we needed it to draw out from Members on “Argument weak here, shout like mad,” for those on the the Government Benches the full colour of their rhetoric. Government side. Let me pay tribute to the two maiden speeches made Analysis of the future jobs fund shows that there was today by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton South significant improvement in relation to the 12% figure up West (Paul Uppal), who, with great elegance and lightness to the end of January 2010. As the leader of Barnsley of touch, paid tribute to both his Sikh heritage and his council said, the Government have scrapped the scheme predecessor, and by the hon. Member for Dudley South when it was just getting going. The future jobs fund (Chris Kelly), who also praised his predecessor. worked towards success and breaking a vicious cycle. May I thank all Labour Members, who have contributed My right hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, so strongly? My hon. Friends the Members for Coventry Itchen (Mr Denham), in his excellent speech, talked South (Mr Cunningham) and for Denton and Reddish about the way in which the Government have ignored (Andrew Gwynne) spoke about the shambolic way in Total Place and the way in which free schools, elected which the Government have dealt with the programme police officers and NHS commissioning are all part of of cuts, and my hon. Friend the Member for Denton pushing toward silo government. The Government are and Reddish also talked about the holistic nature of taking up positions based on departmental silos to agencies in local government. My hon. Friend the Member avoid taking collective action across departments. What for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), who chairs the about their new policy proposals? Where will the equity Communities and Local Government Committee, gave be in schemes that will cream off significant amounts of a forensic dissection of the drift and incoherence of money from that available? What will the position be Government policy on social housing, and my right for students with special educational needs, for example, hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel in the new free schools? Total Place shows what can be Blears) rightly picked up on the human aspects of all done, but, unfortunately, the Government parties seem this. to have a completely confused approach to it. The Other good speeches came from my hon. Friend the danger is that their shambolic representation of this Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), who issue will entrench inefficiencies as those silos and the talked about how unfair the cuts are, from my hon. salami-slicing of budgets set in. Friend the Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern), What do the Government expect to fill the vacuum? who talked about the impact on the future jobs fund in The voluntary sector and the big society. Although the her constituency, and from my right hon. Friend the coalition expects third sector bodies to play a key role, Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough the cuts that have been announced will be a triple (Mr Blunkett), who reminded us in his powerful speech whammy for them. As was pointed out by my hon. that it is the people who sweep our streets, who teach Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard and who look after our elderly who are most affected. Burden), councils will cut the sums that third sector My right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley bodies currently receive. The resulting financial pressure (Caroline Flint) made the point, which Members on the will restrict the capacity of those organisations at the Government Benches would do well to listen to, that we very time when they are expected to take on a greater did fix the roof while the sun was shining. role—another point made by many Opposition Members. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington In what environment will those third sector organisations (Jack Dromey) talked about the Conservative party as that are expected to fill the void be expected to operate? modern-day Leninists. I wonder whether the Secretary Will they be able to secure proper service level agreements of State, as a modern-day Stalinist, would agree with and guarantees, given that councils will be under significant that. My hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield funding pressures throughout the current Parliament? (Toby Perkins) talked about the impact on the voluntary What will be in it for them, and will they even be able to sector and the big society, and, finally, we had a bravura perform that rescue job when their capacity has been hit performance involving Daleks and, again, the Secretary in the ways that I have described? No wonder so many of State, from my hon. Friend the Member for Derby of those bodies and their representatives—the National North (Chris Williamson). Council for Voluntary Organisations, the chairman of Those speeches, and the examples that hon. Members the Charity Commission and the chief executive of have given, have shown that the impact of the cuts is the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary being felt already. As the Financial Times survey of Organisations—are criticising what the Government 823 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 824

[Mr Gordon Marsden] my right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) was prudent in its estimate of the are doing. As Stephen Bubb has said, “If politicians in budgetary outlook. government would only recognise that there is a cost to volunteering, and that charities and other third sector Nadhim Zahawi: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? organisations can’t simply expand their volunteering to fill the gaps.” Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): Will Many charities rely on public money to function, and the hon. Gentleman give way? funding from central and local government now accounts for 36% of charities’ incomes. Apparently, the Secretary Mr Marsden: No, I will not give way. of State warned Tory councillors last Friday that they Government budgets are not like those of individual might experience cuts of between 30% and 40% during businesses or households. Cutting Government expenditure the current Parliament. No wonder—again—that third automatically reduces the income of private businesses sector bodies such as Age UK, and outside experts such and households. As the well-known economic expert in as the King’s Fund, say that the Government’s actions local government Tony Travers has said, Britain is about will leave councils with almost no money with which to to submit itself to an enormous economic experiment. support people in their own homes. But it is Government Members who are submitting What about George Osborne’s other great white hope— people to it and it is the people we care about who are [Interruption.] What about the Chancellor—for now—and going to suffer as a result of it. It is good that so many his great white hope, the private sector? As Opposition Labour Members have talked about the human impact Members have pointed out quite straightforwardly, no on individuals of cutting programmes such as connecting account has been taken of the existing dependence on communities, Connexions, and positive action for young public contracts. No attempt has been made to squeeze people. out or drop out. Many refuse contracts are already Local Government, as my protesting workers in outsourced; how will those contractors cope with Comrade Blackpool said to the council yesterday, is about connection Pickles’s latest diktat about weekly refuse collections? and so-called social cohesion. Ultimately, it is about [Interruption.] I refer to the right hon. Gentleman the human respect and impact on individuals. While we Secretary of State. have hollowed-out policies being put over by hollowed-out The cuts faced by local government are part of a people opposite, we will not flourish. That is why we continuum: savage public sector cuts that will have a have moved this motion tonight. devastating effect on local economies. They should not be viewed merely within the framework of job losses in 9.51 pm town halls or recruitment freezes. The ability of councils to boost economic development in deprived areas has The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for been taken away, and those in the poorest communities Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): will suffer most. Reports from the Greater Manchester It has been a lively debate with plenty of passionate business leadership council have already shown that opinions and not too many facts from those on the public sector job cuts can push retailers into relocating Opposition Benches. Thirty three hon. Members have from towns and cities with high public sector employment. contributed to the debate and before I deal with as These Budget measures will lead to 725,000 job losses many of those points as I can, I pay tribute to the hon. up to 2015. What structural abilities will be available to Members who made maiden speeches today— the hon. sort this out, given that the Government are leaving the Member for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal), regional development agencies in limbo and there are who demonstrated a light touch but also a determination no successors around? The Government need to be to stick up for his constituents, and the hon. Member wary of the dangers of a squeeze on public pay. With a for Dudley South (Chris Kelly), who is local and proud work force demonised and demoralised by them, where of it; his sense of fairness, he thinks, is embedded in his will it lead us? constituency. Given the way in which these cuts have been made, I We in the Government are under no illusion that want to make a final point about the financial structure. local authorities face significant challenges, but deficit [Interruption.] If the Secretary of State had been here reduction and continuing to ensure economic recovery for most of the debate, we might have taken a little more is the most pressing issue facing Britain today. Given notice of what he has had to say. What I want to say is that fact, it is fair that local authorities make a contribution that this huge leap in the dark—[Interruption.] to that reduction in Government spending—a proportionate reduction. It will enable the Government to take immediate action to tackle the UK’s unprecedented £156 billion Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. deficit inherited from the previous Government. Will Members contain themselves just a bit as we approach the end of the debate so that we can hear all the Mr Betts: Will the Minister give way? contributions, as opposed to all the private conversations that are taking place? Andrew Stunell: I will give way in a moment, but let us be clear that for every £300 of income we are getting, Mr Marsden: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. we are spending £400 and putting the extra £100 on the This huge leap in the dark is based on the market credit card; £156 billion is going on the card this year, fetishism and sado-monetarism that are practised by so adding to £1,400,000 billion of debt. Putting that right many Members on the Government Benches. The Office does not guarantee recovery, but failing to put it right for Budget responsibility has shown that the Budget of guarantees failure of the British economy. 825 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 826

No local authority will face a reduction in its revenue proportionate. In the context of greatly reduced public grant of more than 2%, where councils have received finance, it is right that all parts of the public sector bear final allocations. I want to nail one of the myths that some part of that. came up in the debate—the idea that the other grants Like Opposition Members, I wish that this programme somehow are tilted against the north, or the inner-urban were unnecessary or avoidable, but unlike them I remember areas. The housing and planning delivery grant reduction my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, has an impact of £1.45 per head in the metropolitan Innovation and Skills, when he was the Liberal Democrat boroughs. In the shire districts, which Opposition Members Treasury spokesman, warning them time and again, thought were getting a free ride, the cost is £3.10 per year after year, Budget after Budget that they were head. The south-east is paying 90p a head, the north-east following a path to fiscal destruction. On uncontrolled is paying 70p a head. Opposition Members’ charge is debt, unregulated banks and unfounded public spending, completely misplaced. they would not listen then and do not want to listen The £29 billion of formula grant—the main source of now. They hollowed out Britain’s economic base, mortgaged funding for local government—will be protected. There Britain’s financial future, gambled on the banks and are no controls on how that money is spent in these blew away our manufacturing industry, and now when reductions. The ring fencing of non-schools revenue the bailiffs are at the end of the street, they still want to and capital funding is reduced from 10.6% to 7.7%. spend, spend, spend. It is time that the Opposition got real, faced up to Mr Blunkett: Will the Minister give way? their catastrophic destruction of this country’s public finances, hung their heads in shame and confessed that Andrew Stunell: I will give way in a moment, but I their misplaced love affair with the casino bankers want to tell the right hon. Gentleman one or two facts leaves this House, this Government and the British that he has failed— people with no choice but to tighten our belts, pick up Britain’s economy and get it going again. I urge the Mr Blunkett: Will the Minister give way? House to support the Government’s amendment. Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr Blunkett, the original words stand part of the Question. Minister is declining to give way at this point, and he said that he will give way later on. The House divided: Ayes 243, Noes 335. Division No. 12] [9.59 pm Andrew Stunell: I shall give way in a moment, when the right hon. Gentleman has listened to this statistic. AYES [HON.MEMBERS: “Oh!”] Well, a few facts would not go Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Chapman, Mrs Jenny amiss in this debate. In 1998, 4.6% of local government Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Clark, Katy expenditure was ring-fenced. The previous Government Alexander, Heidi Clarke, rh Mr Tom put it up to 14%, and we are getting it down to 7.7%. That Ali, Rushanara Clwyd, rh Ann will give councils the freedom and flexibility that they Allen, Mr Graham Coaker, Vernon need to concentrate on local priorities and to protect Anderson, Mr David Coffey, Ann the front line. Austin, Ian Connarty, Michael Bailey, Mr Adrian Cooper, Rosie Bain, Mr William Corbyn, Jeremy Mr Blunkett: Will the Minister repeat the statistic Banks, Gordon Crausby, Mr David that he gave on the £29 billion revenue support grant Barron, rh Mr Kevin Creagh, Mary and explain how it will be protected? What will a Bayley, Hugh Creasy, Stella 30% cut in that grant mean in real terms to local Beckett, rh Margaret Cruddas, Jon government over the next four years? Begg, Miss Anne Cryer, John Benn, rh Hilary Cunningham, Alex Andrew Stunell: My point was about the £6.2 billion Benton, Mr Joe Cunningham, Mr Jim of cuts that have been referred to throughout the debate. Berger, Luciana Cunningham, Tony The decisions on the comprehensive spending review Betts, Mr Clive Dakin, Nic are not mine to reveal. Blackman-Woods, Roberta Danczuk, Simon Blears, rh Hazel Darling, rh Mr Alistair Blenkinsop, Tom David, Mr Wayne Mr Betts: During the general election campaign, the Blomfield, Paul Davidson, Mr Ian Minister said that immediate cuts were not necessary or Blunkett, rh Mr David Davies, Geraint desirable. Will he tell the House precisely on what day Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben De Piero, Gloria he changed his mind? Brennan, Kevin Denham, rh Mr John Brown, Lyn Dobbin, Jim Andrew Stunell: About the time that, instead of simply Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Dobson, rh Frank banks failing throughout the world, countries were Brown, Mr Russell Docherty, Thomas failing throughout the world. Bryant, Chris Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Buck, Ms Karen Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. We expect councils to continue to protect essential, Burden, Richard Donohoe, Mr Brian H. front-line services this year. The decision on where to Byrne, rh Mr Liam Doran, Mr Frank make the changes to their budgets is one for them to Cairns, David Dowd, Jim take. We have given them the flexibility that they need Campbell, Mr Alan Doyle, Gemma to deliver that, and, with local government accounting Campbell, Mr Gregory Dromey, Jack for about one quarter of United Kingdom public sector Campbell, Mr Ronnie Dugher, Michael spending, the level of cuts that they are taking is Caton, Martin Durkan, Mark 827 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 828

Eagle, Ms Angela Mahmood, Shabana Tami, Mark Wicks, rh Malcolm Eagle, Maria Mann, John Thomas, Mr Gareth Williamson, Chris Efford, Clive Marsden, Mr Gordon Thornberry, Emily Wilson, Phil Elliott, Julie McCann, Mr Michael Timms, rh Stephen Winnick, Mr David Ellman, Mrs Louise McClymont, Gregg Trickett, Jon Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Engel, Natascha McCrea, Dr William Turner, Karl Wood, Mike Esterson, Bill McDonagh, Siobhain Twigg, Derek Woodcock, John Evans, Chris McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Twigg, Stephen Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Farrelly, Paul McDonnell, John Umunna, Mr Chuka Woolas, Mr Phil Field, rh Mr Frank McFadden, rh Mr Pat Vaz, rh Keith Wright, David Fitzpatrick, Jim McGovern, Alison Vaz, Valerie Wright, Mr Iain Flello, Robert McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Walley, Joan Flint, rh Caroline McKechin, Ann Watson, Mr Tom Tellers for the Ayes: Flynn, Paul McKinnell, Catherine Watts, Mr Dave Kerry McCarthy and Fovargue, Yvonne Meacher, rh Mr Michael Whitehead, Dr Alan Steve McCabe Francis, Dr Hywel Meale, Mr Alan Gapes, Mike Mearns, Ian NOES Gardiner, Barry Michael, rh Alun Gilmore, Sheila Miller, Andrew Adams, Nigel Carmichael, Mr Alistair Glass, Pat Mitchell, Austin Afriyie, Adam Carmichael, Neil Glindon, Mrs Mary Moon, Mrs Madeleine Aldous, Peter Carswell, Mr Douglas Godsiff, Mr Roger Morden, Jessica Amess, Mr David Cash, Mr William Goggins, rh Paul Morrice, Graeme Andrew, Stuart Chishti, Rehman Goodman, Helen Morris, Grahame M. Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Chope, Mr Christopher Greatrex, Tom Mudie, Mr George Bacon, Mr Richard Clappison, Mr James Green, Kate Munn, Meg Bagshawe, Ms Louise Clark, rh Greg Greenwood, Lilian Murphy, rh Paul Baker, Norman Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Griffith, Nia Murray, Ian Baker, Steve Coffey, Dr Thérèse Gwynne, Andrew Nandy, Lisa Baldry, Tony Collins, Damian Hain, rh Mr Peter Nash, Pamela Baldwin, Harriett Colvile, Oliver Hamilton, Mr David O’Donnell, Fiona Barclay, Stephen Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hamilton, Mr Fabian Onwurah, Chi Barker, Gregory Crockart, Mike Hanson, rh Mr David Osborne, Sandra Baron, Mr John Crouch, Tracey Harman, rh Ms Harriet Owen, Albert Barwell, Gavin Davey, Mr Edward Harris, Mr Tom Paisley, Ian Bebb, Guto Davies, David T. C. Havard, Mr Dai Pearce, Teresa Beith, rh Sir Alan (Monmouth) Healey, rh John Perkins, Toby Bellingham, Mr Henry Davies, Glyn Hendrick, Mark Phillipson, Bridget Benyon, Richard Davies, Philip Hepburn, Mr Stephen Pound, Stephen Beresford, Sir Paul Davis, rh Mr David Heyes, David Qureshi, Yasmin Berry, Jake de Bois, Nick Hillier, Meg Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Bingham, Andrew Dinenage, Caroline Hilling, Julie Reeves, Rachel Binley, Mr Brian Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hodge, rh Margaret Reynolds, Emma Birtwistle, Gordon Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Reynolds, Jonathan Blackman, Bob Dorries, Nadine Hoey, Kate Riordan, Mrs Linda Blackwood, Nicola Doyle-Price, Jackie Hopkins, Kelvin Ritchie, Ms Margaret Blunt, Mr Crispin Drax, Richard Howarth, rh Mr George Robertson, John Boles, Nick Duncan, rh Mr Alan Hunt, Tristram Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Bone, Mr Peter Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Illsley, Mr Eric Rotheram, Steve Bottomley, Peter Dunne, Mr Philip Irranca-Davies, Huw Roy, Mr Frank Bradley, Karen Edwards, Jonathan Jamieson, Cathy Roy, Lindsay Brake, Tom Ellis, Michael Johnson, Diana R. Ruane, Chris Bray, Angie Ellison, Jane Jones, Graham Ruddock, rh Joan Brazier, Mr Julian Ellwood, Mr Tobias Jones, Helen Sarwar, Anas Bridgen, Andrew Elphicke, Charlie Jones, Mr Kevan Seabeck, Alison Brine, Mr Steve Eustice, George Jones, Susan Elan Shannon, Jim Brokenshire, James Evans, Jonathan Joyce, Eric Sharma, Mr Virendra Brooke, Annette Evennett, Mr David Keen, Alan Sheerman, Mr Barry Browne, Mr Jeremy Fabricant, Michael Kendall, Liz Sheridan, Jim Bruce, Fiona Fallon, Michael Khan, rh Sadiq Shuker, Gavin Bruce, rh Malcolm Farron, Tim Lammy, rh Mr David Simpson, David Buckland, Mr Robert Featherstone, Lynne Lavery, Ian Singh, Mr Marsha Burley, Mr Aidan Field, Mr Mark Lazarowicz, Mark Skinner, Mr Dennis Burns, Conor Foster, Mr Don Leslie, Chris Slaughter, Mr Andy Burns, Mr Simon Francois, rh Mr Mark Lewis, Mr Ivan Smith, Angela (Penistone and Burrowes, Mr David Freeman, George Lloyd, Tony Stocksbridge) Burstow, Mr Paul Freer, Mike Love, Mr Andrew Smith, Nick Burt, Alistair Fullbrook, Lorraine Lucas, Caroline Smith, Owen Burt, Lorely Fuller, Richard Lucas, Ian Soulsby, Sir Peter Byles, Dan Garnier, Mr Edward MacShane, rh Mr Denis Spellar, rh Mr John Cable, rh Vince Garnier, Mark Mactaggart, Fiona Stuart, Ms Gisela Cairns, Alun Gauke, Mr David Mahmood, Mr Khalid Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Gibb, Mr Nick 829 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 830

Gilbert, Stephen Leech, Mr John Redwood, rh Mr John Syms, Mr Robert Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lefroy, Jeremy Rees-Mogg, Jacob Tapsell, Sir Peter Glen, John Leigh, Mr Edward Reid, Mr Alan Teather, Sarah Goldsmith, Zac Leslie, Charlotte Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Thurso, John Goodwill, Mr Robert Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Robathan, Mr Andrew Timpson, Mr Edward Graham, Richard Lewis, Brandon Robertson, Mr Laurence Tomlinson, Justin Grant, Mrs Helen Lewis, Dr Julian Rogerson, Dan Tredinnick, David Gray, Mr James Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Rosindell, Andrew Truss, Elizabeth Grayling, rh Chris Lilley, rh Mr Peter Rudd, Amber Turner, Mr Andrew Green, Damian Lloyd, Stephen Russell, Bob Tyrie, Mr Andrew Greening, Justine Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Rutley, David Uppal, Paul Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Lopresti, Jack Sanders, Mr Adrian Vaizey, Mr Edward Griffiths, Andrew Lord, Jonathan Sandys, Laura Vara, Mr Shailesh Gummer, Ben Loughton, Tim Scott, Mr Lee Vickers, Martin Gyimah, Mr Sam Luff, Peter Selous, Andrew Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Hague, rh Mr William Lumley, Karen Shapps, rh Grant Walker, Mr Charles Halfon, Robert Macleod, Mary Sharma, Alok Walker, Mr Robin Hames, Duncan Main, Mrs Anne Shelbrooke, Alec Wallace, Mr Ben Hammond, rh Mr Philip Maude, rh Mr Francis Shepherd, Mr Richard Walter, Mr Robert Hammond, Stephen May, rh Mrs Theresa Simmonds, Mark Ward, Mr David Hancock, Matthew Maynard, Paul Skidmore, Chris Watkinson, Angela Hancock, Mr Mike McCartney, Jason Smith, Miss Chloe Weatherley, Mike Hands, Greg McCartney, Karl Smith, Henry Webb, Steve Harper, Mr Mark McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Julian Wharton, James Harrington, Richard McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Sir Robert Wheeler, Heather Harris, Rebecca McPartland, Stephen Soames, Nicholas White, Chris Hart, Simon McVey, Esther Soubry, Anna Whittaker, Craig Harvey, Nick Menzies, Mark Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Whittingdale, Mr John Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Metcalfe, Stephen Spencer, Mr Mark Wiggin, Bill Hayes, Mr John Miller, Maria Stanley, rh Sir John Willetts, rh Mr David Heald, Mr Oliver Mills, Nigel Stephenson, Andrew Williams, Mr Mark Heath, Mr David Milton, Anne Stevenson, John Williams, Roger Heaton-Harris, Chris Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stewart, Bob Williams, Stephen Hemming, John Mordaunt, Penny Stewart, Iain Williamson, Gavin Henderson, Gordon Morgan, Nicky Stewart, Rory Wilson, Mr Rob Hendry, Charles Morris, James Streeter, Mr Gary Wollaston, Dr Sarah Hinds, Damian Mosley, Stephen Stride, Mel Wright, Jeremy Hoban, Mr Mark Mowat, David Stuart, Mr Graham Wright, Simon Hollingbery, George Mulholland, Greg Stunell, Andrew Young, rh Sir George Hollobone, Mr Philip Mundell, rh David Sturdy, Julian Zahawi, Nadhim Hopkins, Kris Munt, Tessa Swales, Ian Horwood, Martin Murray, Sheryll Swayne, Mr Desmond Tellers for the Noes: Howarth, Mr Gerald Murrison, Dr Andrew Swinson, Jo Stephen Crabb and Howell, John Neill, Robert Swire, Mr Hugo James Duddridge Hughes, Simon Newmark, Mr Brooks Huhne, rh Chris Newton, Sarah Question accordingly negatived. Hunter, Mark Nokes, Caroline Huppert, Dr Julian Norman, Jesse Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 31(2)), Hurd, Mr Nick Nuttall, Mr David That the proposed words be there added. Jackson, Mr Stewart O’Brien, Mr Stephen The House divided: Ayes 334, Noes 243. James, Margot Offord, Mr Matthew Javid, Sajid Ollerenshaw, Eric Division No. 13] [10.15 pm Jenkin, Mr Bernard Opperman, Guy Johnson, Gareth Ottaway, Richard AYES Johnson, Joseph Parish, Neil Adams, Nigel Bellingham, Mr Henry Jones, Andrew Patel, Priti Afriyie, Adam Benyon, Richard Jones, Mr David Paterson, rh Mr Owen Aldous, Peter Beresford, Sir Paul Jones, Mr Marcus Pawsey, Mark Amess, Mr David Berry, Jake Kawczynski, Daniel Penning, Mike Andrew, Stuart Bingham, Andrew Kelly, Chris Penrose, John Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Binley, Mr Brian Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Percy, Andrew Bacon, Mr Richard Birtwistle, Gordon Kirby, Simon Perry, Claire Bagshawe, Ms Louise Blackman, Bob Knight, rh Mr Greg Phillips, Stephen Baker, Norman Blackwood, Nicola Kwarteng, Kwasi Pickles, rh Mr Eric Baker, Steve Blunt, Mr Crispin Laing, Mrs Eleanor Pincher, Christopher Baldry, Tony Boles, Nick Lamb, Norman Poulter, Dr Daniel Baldwin, Harriett Bone, Mr Peter Lancaster, Mark Prisk, Mr Mark Barclay, Stephen Bottomley, Peter Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Pritchard, Mark Barker, Gregory Bradley, Karen Latham, Pauline Pugh, Dr John Baron, Mr John Brake, Tom Leadsom, Andrea Raab, Mr Dominic Barwell, Gavin Bray, Angie Lee, Jessica Randall, rh Mr John Bebb, Guto Brazier, Mr Julian Lee, Dr Phillip Reckless, Mark Beith, rh Sir Alan Bridgen, Andrew 831 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 832

Brine, Mr Steve Gibb, Mr Nick Leech, Mr John Rees-Mogg, Jacob Brokenshire, James Gilbert, Stephen Lefroy, Jeremy Reid, Mr Alan Brooke, Annette Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Leigh, Mr Edward Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Browne, Mr Jeremy Glen, John Leslie, Charlotte Robathan, Mr Andrew Bruce, Fiona Goldsmith, Zac Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Robertson, Mr Laurence Bruce, rh Malcolm Goodwill, Mr Robert Lewis, Brandon Rogerson, Dan Buckland, Mr Robert Graham, Richard Lewis, Dr Julian Rosindell, Andrew Burley, Mr Aidan Grant, Mrs Helen Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Rudd, Amber Burns, Conor Gray, Mr James Lilley, rh Mr Peter Russell, Bob Burns, Mr Simon Grayling, rh Chris Lloyd, Stephen Rutley, David Burrowes, Mr David Green, Damian Lopresti, Jack Sanders, Mr Adrian Burstow, Mr Paul Greening, Justine Lord, Jonathan Sandys, Laura Burt, Alistair Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Loughton, Tim Scott, Mr Lee Burt, Lorely Griffiths, Andrew Luff, Peter Selous, Andrew Byles, Dan Gummer, Ben Lumley, Karen Shapps, rh Grant Cable, rh Vince Gyimah, Mr Sam Macleod, Mary Sharma, Alok Cairns, Alun Hague, rh Mr William Main, Mrs Anne Shelbrooke, Alec Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Halfon, Robert Maude, rh Mr Francis Shepherd, Mr Richard Carmichael, Mr Alistair Hames, Duncan May, rh Mrs Theresa Simmonds, Mark Carmichael, Neil Hammond, rh Mr Philip Maynard, Paul Skidmore, Chris Carswell, Mr Douglas Hammond, Stephen McCartney, Jason Smith, Miss Chloe Cash, Mr William Hancock, Matthew McCartney, Karl Smith, Henry Chishti, Rehman Hancock, Mr Mike McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Julian Chope, Mr Christopher Hands, Greg McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Sir Robert Clappison, Mr James Harper, Mr Mark McPartland, Stephen Soames, Nicholas Clark, rh Greg Harrington, Richard McVey, Esther Soubry, Anna Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Harris, Rebecca Menzies, Mark Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hart, Simon Metcalfe, Stephen Spencer, Mr Mark Collins, Damian Harvey, Nick Miller, Maria Stanley, rh Sir John Colvile, Oliver Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Mills, Nigel Stephenson, Andrew Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hayes, Mr John Milton, Anne Stevenson, John Crabb, Stephen Heald, Mr Oliver Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stewart, Bob Crockart, Mike Heath, Mr David Mordaunt, Penny Stewart, Iain Crouch, Tracey Heaton-Harris, Chris Morgan, Nicky Stewart, Rory Davey, Mr Edward Hemming, John Morris, James Streeter, Mr Gary Davies, David T. C. Henderson, Gordon Mosley, Stephen Stride, Mel (Monmouth) Hendry, Charles Mowat, David Stuart, Mr Graham Davies, Glyn Hinds, Damian Mulholland, Greg Stunell, Andrew Davies, Philip Hoban, Mr Mark Mundell, rh David Sturdy, Julian Davis, rh Mr David Hollingbery, George Munt, Tessa Swales, Ian de Bois, Nick Hollobone, Mr Philip Murray, Sheryll Swayne, Mr Desmond Dinenage, Caroline Hopkins, Kris Murrison, Dr Andrew Swinson, Jo Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Horwood, Martin Neill, Robert Swire, Mr Hugo Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Howarth, Mr Gerald Newmark, Mr Brooks Syms, Mr Robert Dorries, Nadine Howell, John Newton, Sarah Tapsell, Sir Peter Doyle-Price, Jackie Hughes, Simon Nokes, Caroline Teather, Sarah Drax, Richard Huhne, rh Chris Norman, Jesse Thurso, John Duncan, rh Mr Alan Hunter, Mark Nuttall, Mr David Timpson, Mr Edward Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Huppert, Dr Julian O’Brien, Mr Stephen Tomlinson, Justin Dunne, Mr Philip Hurd, Mr Nick Offord, Mr Matthew Tredinnick, David Ellis, Michael Jackson, Mr Stewart Ollerenshaw, Eric Truss, Elizabeth Ellison, Jane James, Margot Opperman, Guy Turner, Mr Andrew Ellwood, Mr Tobias Javid, Sajid Ottaway, Richard Tyrie, Mr Andrew Elphicke, Charlie Jenkin, Mr Bernard Parish, Neil Uppal, Paul Eustice, George Johnson, Gareth Patel, Priti Vaizey, Mr Edward Evans, Jonathan Johnson, Joseph Paterson, rh Mr Owen Vara, Mr Shailesh Evennett, Mr David Jones, Andrew Pawsey, Mark Vickers, Martin Fabricant, Michael Jones, Mr David Penning, Mike Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Fallon, Michael Jones, Mr Marcus Penrose, John Walker, Mr Charles Farron, Tim Kawczynski, Daniel Percy, Andrew Walker, Mr Robin Featherstone, Lynne Kelly, Chris Perry, Claire Wallace, Mr Ben Field, Mr Mark Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Phillips, Stephen Walter, Mr Robert Foster, Mr Don Kirby, Simon Pickles, rh Mr Eric Ward, Mr David Francois, rh Mr Mark Knight, rh Mr Greg Pincher, Christopher Watkinson, Angela Freeman, George Kwarteng, Kwasi Poulter, Dr Daniel Weatherley, Mike Freer, Mike Laing, Mrs Eleanor Prisk, Mr Mark Webb, Steve Fullbrook, Lorraine Lancaster, Mark Pritchard, Mark Wharton, James Fuller, Richard Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Pugh, Dr John Wheeler, Heather Garnier, Mr Edward Latham, Pauline Raab, Mr Dominic White, Chris Garnier, Mark Leadsom, Andrea Randall, rh Mr John Whittaker, Craig Gauke, Mr David Lee, Jessica Reckless, Mark Whittingdale, Mr John George, Andrew Lee, Dr Phillip Redwood, rh Mr John Wiggin, Bill 833 Local Government Financing29 JUNE 2010 Local Government Financing 834

Willetts, rh Mr David Wright, Jeremy Johnson, Diana R. Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Williams, Mr Mark Wright, Simon Jones, Graham Reeves, Rachel Williams, Roger Young, rh Sir George Jones, Helen Reynolds, Emma Williams, Stephen Zahawi, Nadhim Jones, Mr Kevan Reynolds, Jonathan Williamson, Gavin Tellers for the Ayes: Jones, Susan Elan Riordan, Mrs Linda Wilson, Mr Rob James Duddridge and Joyce, Eric Ritchie, Ms Margaret Wollaston, Dr Sarah Norman Lamb Keen, Alan Robertson, John Kendall, Liz Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Khan, rh Sadiq Rotheram, Steve NOES Lammy, rh Mr David Roy, Mr Frank Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Docherty, Thomas Lavery, Ian Roy, Lindsay Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Lazarowicz, Mark Ruane, Chris Alexander, Heidi Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Leslie, Chris Ruddock, rh Joan Ali, Rushanara Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Lewis, Mr Ivan Sarwar, Anas Allen, Mr Graham Doran, Mr Frank Lloyd, Tony Seabeck, Alison Anderson, Mr David Dowd, Jim Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Shannon, Jim Austin, Ian Doyle, Gemma Love, Mr Andrew Sharma, Mr Virendra Bailey, Mr Adrian Dromey, Jack Lucas, Caroline Sheerman, Mr Barry Bain, Mr William Dugher, Michael Lucas, Ian Sheridan, Jim Banks, Gordon Durkan, Mark MacShane, rh Mr Denis Shuker, Gavin Barron, rh Mr Kevin Eagle, Ms Angela Mactaggart, Fiona Simpson, David Bayley, Hugh Eagle, Maria Mahmood, Mr Khalid Singh, Mr Marsha Beckett, rh Margaret Edwards, Jonathan Mahmood, Shabana Skinner, Mr Dennis Begg, Miss Anne Efford, Clive Mann, John Slaughter, Mr Andy Benn, rh Hilary Elliott, Julie Marsden, Mr Gordon Smith, Angela (Penistone and Benton, Mr Joe Ellman, Mrs Louise McCann, Mr Michael Stocksbridge) Berger, Luciana Engel, Natascha McClymont, Gregg Smith, Nick Betts, Mr Clive Esterson, Bill McCrea, Dr William Smith, Owen Blackman-Woods, Roberta Evans, Chris McDonagh, Siobhain Soulsby, Sir Peter Blears, rh Hazel Farrelly, Paul McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Spellar, rh Mr John Blenkinsop, Tom Field, rh Mr Frank McDonnell, John Stuart, Ms Gisela Blomfield, Paul Fitzpatrick, Jim McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Blunkett, rh Mr David Flello, Robert McGovern, Alison Tami, Mark Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Flint, rh Caroline McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Thomas, Mr Gareth Brennan, Kevin Flynn, Paul McKechin, Ann Thornberry, Emily Brown, Lyn Fovargue, Yvonne McKinnell, Catherine Timms, rh Stephen Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Francis, Dr Hywel Meacher, rh Mr Michael Trickett, Jon Brown, Mr Russell Gapes, Mike Meale, Mr Alan Turner, Karl Bryant, Chris Gardiner, Barry Mearns, Ian Twigg, Derek Buck, Ms Karen Gilmore, Sheila Michael, rh Alun Twigg, Stephen Burden, Richard Glass, Pat Miller, Andrew Umunna, Mr Chuka Byrne, rh Mr Liam Glindon, Mrs Mary Mitchell, Austin Vaz, rh Keith Cairns, David Godsiff, Mr Roger Moon, Mrs Madeleine Vaz, Valerie Campbell, Mr Alan Goggins, rh Paul Morden, Jessica Walley, Joan Campbell, Mr Gregory Goodman, Helen Morrice, Graeme Watson, Mr Tom Campbell, Mr Ronnie Greatrex, Tom Morris, Grahame M. Watts, Mr Dave Caton, Martin Green, Kate Mudie, Mr George Whitehead, Dr Alan Chapman, Mrs Jenny Greenwood, Lilian Munn, Meg Wicks, rh Malcolm Clark, Katy Griffith, Nia Murphy, rh Paul Williamson, Chris Clarke, rh Mr Tom Gwynne, Andrew Murray, Ian Wilson, Phil Clwyd, rh Ann Hain, rh Mr Peter Nandy, Lisa Winnick, Mr David Coaker, Vernon Hamilton, Mr David Nash, Pamela Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Connarty, Michael Hamilton, Mr Fabian O’Donnell, Fiona Wood, Mike Cooper, Rosie Hanson, rh Mr David Onwurah, Chi Woodcock, John Corbyn, Jeremy Harman, rh Ms Harriet Osborne, Sandra Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Crausby, Mr David Harris, Mr Tom Owen, Albert Woolas, Mr Phil Paisley, Ian Creagh, Mary Havard, Mr Dai Wright, David Creasy, Stella Healey, rh John Pearce, Teresa Wright, Mr Iain Cruddas, Jon Hendrick, Mark Perkins, Toby Cryer, John Hepburn, Mr Stephen Phillipson, Bridget Tellers for the Noes: Cunningham, Alex Heyes, David Pound, Stephen Kerry McCarthy and Cunningham, Mr Jim Hillier, Meg Qureshi, Yasmin Steve McCabe Cunningham, Tony Hilling, Julie Dakin, Nic Hodge, rh Margaret Question accordingly agreed to. Danczuk, Simon Hodgson, Mrs Sharon David, Mr Wayne Hoey, Kate The Deputy Speaker declared the main Question, as Davidson, Mr Ian Hopkins, Kelvin amended, to be agreed to (Standing Order No. 31(2)). Davies, Geraint Howarth, rh Mr George Resolved, De Piero, Gloria Hunt, Tristram That this House regrets the doubling of council tax under the Denham, rh Mr John Illsley, Mr Eric last government, its cuts to services such as rubbish collections Dobbin, Jim Irranca-Davies, Huw and its legacy of public debt; expresses concern that the prospect Dobson, rh Frank Jamieson, Cathy of paying for £70 billion a year in debt interest represents a total 835 Local Government Financing 29 JUNE 2010 836

[Andrew Stunell] Bus Services (Milton Keynes) of more than is currently raised from council tax, business rates, Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House stamp duty and inheritance tax combined; welcomes the new do now adjourn.—(Mr Vara.) Government’s immediate support for frontline services by protecting £29 billion of formula grant, removing £1.2 billion of ring-fencing 10.30 pm and abolishing red tape such as the Comprehensive Area Assessment; Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): I am backs the support for hard-working families and pensioners grateful to have secured this debate. I requested it through a council tax freeze and the abolition of the previous because of the significant level of disquiet in my government’s plans for new bin taxes; further welcomes the scrapping of the unfair ports tax which threatened to harm constituency and that of my hon. Friend the Member Britain’s whole manufacturing sector; supports the reductions in for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) over the business rates for small firms; acknowledges the significant efficiency new network and timetable introduced by Arriva buses savings already delivered by local government but believes that throughout Milton Keynes on 25 April. The new network there is further scope for savings through joint working, professional and timetable were introduced with hardly any proper procurement practices and radical town hall transparency; and consultation, and there have been significant complaints asserts the importance of delivering local economic growth to all about the punctuality and reliability of the new services. local communities across the country, assisted by new financial incentives, and of giving new freedoms to councils to allow them It is fair to say that, in the seven or eight weeks that I to focus their help on local priorities and those most in need. have been a Member of the House, I have had more letters and e-mails on this subject than on any other. On 11 June, my hon. Friend and I attended a forum organised in Milton Keynes. It was a protest meeting organised by the Milton Keynes older person’s forum, and I congratulate Peter Ballantyne and his colleagues on organising it. I have never been to such a packed public protest meeting—it was literally standing room only. That gives an indication of the level of disquiet in Milton Keynes over the new bus system. Before detailing the concerns expressed and outlining what I hope are some of the possible solutions, I shall explain why the design and geography of Milton Keynes makes the provision of good bus services more complex than in many other cities and towns. Unlike most towns and cities, the normal pattern of travel is not just in what one might term a hub-and-spoke arrangement, under which the broad direction of travel is from outlying residential areas into the urban centre, where most businesses, shops and leisure activities are. There is that travel in Milton Keynes, but our grid system disperses places of employment, leisure and retail throughout the city. So the patterns of travel are not just from the outskirts into the middle, but multi-directional at any given point in the day. That presents a challenge to bus operators to put in place an effective system. Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): My hon. Friend is making a powerful case on behalf of his constituents and is to be congratulated on securing this important debate. Of course, the added complication in Milton Keynes is that about 80% of the unitary authority is rural, so as well as a rather complicated grid-row system we have the rural bus network that makes it even worse. Iain Stewart: My hon. Friend makes an important point. Some of the villages in his constituency, as in mine, either do not have a bus service at all or have such a limited one that it is not reliable for people without cars. Little Brickhill, in my constituency, is one of the villages that lost its post office jut over a year ago. Now the residents there do not have a bus service to get to the nearest post office in the town, so they have had a double whammy in the loss of services. That is an important additional aspect to devising a good bus network. The other curious and unique feature of Milton Keynes is that the grid road system has fast roads skirting around each of the residential areas, so that cars and buses can travel at high speed. It presents a trade-off between the speed of services and accessibility. 837 Bus Services (Milton Keynes)29 JUNE 2010 Bus Services (Milton Keynes) 838

There is a choice of either driving buses down the grid is now looking at adjusting some of the routes to roads, which are far away from most people’s homes, or ameliorate some of the major problems that have arisen. going into the estates, which inevitably lengthens the It is a helpful development that the remit of Passenger journey. I appreciate that the bus operators have a Focus has been broadened to include bus services, which difficult task in marrying up those two objectives. have always been the Cinderella service compared with Arriva stated when it introduced the new system that train services. it wanted a faster network. That is what it has achieved, I appreciate that it is right for much of the detail to be but it has done so at too great a cost to many of the resolved at the local level rather than coming before services people rely on. There has been significant opposition Parliament, but I have sought to raise this subject in the to the changes, as I detailed earlier. House because I think we can learn some lessons from I will spare the House a detailed analysis of the this unhappy state of affairs that may be helpful across individual routes that have changed, but I hope the other areas of the country. The Minister has kindly following gives a little flavour of some of the problems indicated that he will look at the notification period and that have arisen since the changes at the end of April. I I hope that that might be extended to review the process have had letters from students who have either been late of consultation, as different groups in the affected for their exams or missed them altogether; they could constituency must be involved if there is to be a major not rely on a bus service to get them there in time. restructuring of the bus network. I suggest that that Similarly, patients have either missed their hospital or should include not just unitary authority councils, but doctor appointments, or been unable to attend them parish and town councils, and I also suggest it should without an inordinately long journey, which they are include the local hospital and GP practices, because if sometimes not physically capable of making. They are people are unable to get to their appointments in time, therefore forced to rely on the charity of neighbours or that is a serious public health issue. It is vital that families to transport them, or to face the expense of a schools are involved as well, because if pupils cannot taxi. get in to sit their exams on time, or simply cannot arrive on time for ordinary classes, that is an issue. Milton The Stony Stratford business association wrote to me Keynes has such a low housing density that schools about its considerable concerns about a downturn in have large catchment areas that cover considerable distances. trading following the changes. That is because a direct service into Stony Stratford, which many pensioners used, was lost. I have had reports from volunteers and Mark Lancaster: There might have been more than carers, saying that they are now finding it so difficult to 450 people at the meeting that my hon. Friend and I get to the homes of the people they are looking after attended. Does he agree that they expressed great anger that they have had to reassess their commitments. Finally, that there was almost no consultation and that they did I have had reports from employees, who used to enjoy not have the opportunity to make their voice heard fast and frequent service to their places of work, but about the changes that were made? now have to endure such a long and convoluted journey that they are often late into work and have to use up Iain Stewart: My hon. Friend is exactly right. If their lunch hour to make up time. These are serious people had been consulted at the outset, many of these disadvantages, and I believe that many of them are a problems could have been avoided. product of insufficient consultation among Arriva buses, There is a trade-off between having a fast route the parish and town councils and different organisations between any two points in a city and having the route go in Milton Keynes. through the main residential areas, but it is surely not I have also received complaints that Milton Keynes beyond wit and wisdom to have a two-tier service with, council itself has not been attentive to the implications perhaps, one express bus that does not call everywhere of the changes and that there has been a lack of and the next bus as a stopping service that goes to all co-ordination. It spent a considerable amount of money the different residential areas. These details should be putting up fancy new signs saying “this is where the worked out between the operators, the council and the buses come”, and it has put up fancy new bus stops at different groups that I have identified, and I would also great expense, which are now not used. There has been a include local employers in the consultation. I am pleased considerable waste of money, which I do not think that the coalition Government agreement has a provision should have happened. Advertising and notifying passengers to encourage greater co-operation between councils and of the changes have also been a problem. When I raised bus operators, and I am interested to hear what further that subject briefly in Transport questions a couple of comments on that the Minister might be able to make. weeks ago, the Minister kindly indicated that he might Finally, I ask the Minister to take account of the look at changing the regulations that govern this matter. evidence from Milton Keynes and other areas where The situation is getting so bad that I understand that there are bus problems and to look again at the effectiveness the traffic commissioner is now aware of the problem of the provisions of the Local Transport Act 2008, and is actively considering whether to intervene if the particularly in relation to quality partnerships and contracts. proper notification from different organisations in Milton I know they were introduced fairly recently, but I think Keynes is forthcoming. I do not want to spend this it is appropriate now to review their effectiveness and evening looking for scapegoats, going into who caused consider what further changes might be made. the problem and who did not do what. I am more The decentralisation Bill is due later this year. We interested in solutions and learning any lessons that want to encourage greater devolution and decentralisation, might be applicable elsewhere. and also open-source planning that leads to properly There have been some positive developments. A new sustainable communities. I hope that that Bill might be bus users group has been set up by the council, which is an appropriate vehicle through which to address the starting to act as a good conduit for complaints. Arriva changes I have discussed in this debate. 839 Bus Services (Milton Keynes)29 JUNE 2010 Bus Services (Milton Keynes) 840

[Iain Stewart] I am aware of the particular public meeting to which my hon. Friend referred. I have in front of me an extract I do not believe it is right for central Government to from his local paper, which points out that hundreds of be overly prescriptive in determining what bus system people vented their anger at that meeting, which was operates in what area. What works in one area might held at Christ the Cornerstone church on the Friday in not be applicable elsewhere, and, as I have said, Milton question. I note the concern expressed there, as reported Keynes is unique in its design. However, I hope that by in the press: that there was no public consultation raising this subject I have brought to the Minister’s before the changes were imposed, that several services attention the fact that there is serious disquiet in Milton were axed, and that route changes left some estates Keynes, and I would be grateful to learn of any steps he bypassed altogether. The fact that hundreds turned up might take to encourage greater co-operation and to that meeting demonstrates the importance of the consultation. I am grateful to have had the opportunity bus network to Milton Keynes, and the wish for people to raise this issue, and I hope my postbag on it will start to be properly consulted about bus changes in their to decline after this debate. areas. Of course, there are times when decisions are made 10.45 pm that inconvenience local residents. Even when a re-routed bus service results in more people having access to local The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport transport, that is of cold comfort to those who find that (Norman Baker): I congratulate my hon. Friend the the bus that used to stop outside their front door now Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) on does not pass through their neighbourhood. I certainly securing this Adjournment debate and on the effective agree that if we end up with expensive signs and new way in which he presented his case. I understand that he bus stops that become redundant, that is not a good use is a keen marathon runner, so he will be quite used to of public or private money. However, I am keenly aware making his journeys through urban areas at high speed of the importance of stability for passengers. A passenger on foot. However, for the rest of us who only run for who catches a bus today wants to know that the route office, public transport is often required for such journeys, will still be running next week. With stability in the so I am pleased to have the opportunity to discuss the network, passengers are able to build up a habit of subjects he has raised tonight. using the bus, and are even able to look further afield Buses play a hugely important role in our transport for employment opportunities, confident that the bus system. More journeys are made each year on buses they rely on to commute will not vanish overnight. This than on all other public transport modes put together. predictability is of course in the interests of the Where a bus network works well, the bus can provide bus companies themselves as they seek to grow their more than mere convenience. It is no exaggeration to business. say that a good-quality bus service can be a lifeline, particularly for those who do not have access to a car. The Competition Commission is undertaking a large- scale inquiry into the bus industry. Competition is, I The best bus networks exist where local government know, a concern of some residents in areas such as and operators work productively together. However, for Milton Keynes, where bus services are largely provided this to happen, central Government need to provide an by a single bus operator. I do not believe that it would appropriate legislative framework that enables innovation be right or sensible tonight to pre-empt the commission’s and creativity from bus companies, and provides local report by introducing wholesale regulatory changes before authorities with the flexibility to use their local knowledge it has published its findings. My hon. Friend referred to to manage their bus networks in a fair and logical way. the Local Transport Act 2008 and mentioned the possibility Local government needs to work closely with operators of a review. In a sense, a review is taking place through and the travelling public to ensure that we have a local the commission’s inquiry, which is looking at the regulation transport network that works for everyone; and transport of the bus industry. That, in turn, will advise Government operators need to listen to the views of their passengers on whether further changes are necessary or not. We to ensure that their decisions reflect those views and the await the results of that with interest. views of locally elected representatives. However, clearly some areas can be considered while Cities and large towns evolve and grow, and it is the inquiry is ongoing, and my hon. Friend has raised inevitable that local transport provision changes to some of them today. The Department for Transport has reflect this. This is especially true for ambitious cities just completed its own consultation to explore some such as Milton Keynes, as evidenced by the extensive ways in which changes to the regulatory framework redevelopment of the Milton Keynes Coachway station, may help. For example, we sought views on whether it to be completed later this year. I suspect that that would be appropriate to extend the notice that an project will bring huge benefits to the city, and I very operator is required to provide before altering an existing much hope it will inspire other cities to consider similar service—my hon. Friend covered that point in his projects. contribution. Currently, a bus company in England is However, in respect of the specific issues my hon. required to notify the traffic commissioner 56 days in Friend raised, I acknowledge that when changes are advance of any change. That is not the case in Scotland, made to timetables, they should be implemented in a where a bus company is required to have provided an way that minimises disruption for passengers. While additional 14 days’ notice to the local authority before there is currently no requirement for bus operators submitting such an application to the traffic commissioner. formally to consult local residents, we know that the I can assure my hon. Friend that I am actively considering best operators work closely with passenger groups and whether it would be appropriate to adopt a similar local authorities to ensure that they are listening to the arrangement across England as well, and I hope to voice of the passenger when these decisions are made. make an announcement shortly. 841 Bus Services (Milton Keynes)29 JUNE 2010 Bus Services (Milton Keynes) 842

As my hon. Friend will be aware, local authorities more than 5 billion passenger journeys a day are made already have a wide range of powers at their disposal, on local buses alone, so we need to ensure that the including the power to tender additional bus routes investment in services continues. Altogether, local and where they deem them to be necessary. That already central Government provide about £2.5 billion in support happens in Milton Keynes, as it does right across the to the bus industry, and it is important that we not only country, and I am sure that Milton Keynes council is continue to provide financial support for services, but examining the situation closely. I am informed that ensure that this money is allocated in a way that provides 17% of the bus mileage in his area is subsidised in this the maximum benefit across the board. Bus service way—that figure is broadly in line with the national operators grant, for example, directly provides operators average outside London. with more than £400 million in support for bus services. All local authorities in England have the powers to The benefits of that grant are clear: it ensures that the introduce different degrees of local regulation, through bus network remains as broad as possible, while keeping the use of a voluntary partnership agreement, the fares lower and bringing more people on to public introduction of a quality partnership scheme or London- transport, with the obvious benefits of reducing congestion, style franchising through the use of a quality contracts lowering carbon emissions and improving air quality in scheme. There is no reason why partnership agreements our towns and cities. However, no matter how clear the cannot include requirements for the operator to notify benefits of such investment are, it is important that the passengers before making changes to services or fares. Government get as much value as possible from every So, in a sense, the tools to achieve what my hon. Friend pound invested in services and it may be that we can wants are available if Milton Keynes council and others increase the benefits of this grant even further. My hon. want to use them. In my view, local transport should, in Friend may be interested to learn that I am considering the main, be managed at the local level, where local whether it would be sensible to reform the way this knowledge can be used to greatest effect. I can give him grant is allocated, to ensure that it provides the maximum my assurance that the coalition Government are committed possible benefit for passengers. In general, I am determined to this decentralisation. that we should have a bus system that delivers good value for the taxpayer and good value for the fare payer. I am aware that earlier this year the south-east regional transport board recommended the withdrawal of funding Let me pick up on one or two points that my hon. for the central Milton Keynes public transport improvement Friend raised. First, I am pleased that the Milton Keynes scheme, and that that came as a blow for Milton Keynes older person’s forum has been so active in this matter council, which had set a stretching target to increase bus and I want to pass on my thanks to its members for patronage from 9.3 million in 2007-08 to 11 million in their efforts in this regard. I am pleased that the new bus 2010-11. I am sure that the local authority is investigating users group has been established and I hope that what I whether it is possible to seek other routes for funding have said tonight, coupled with the steps being taken this proposal, either in its original form or some variant locally in Milton Keynes, will mean that we end up with thereof. I understand that the council is looking at an improved bus service and more satisfaction than was directing some of the revenue it receives from parking clearly shown at the public meeting attended by my towards improvements in bus services, as well as seeking hon. Friend and others. I know that my hon. Friend has improvements in punctuality through its new punctuality been active in this case with Arriva and I hope that he improvement partnership, and I welcome that initiative. will continue to be so in the interests of his constituents. I am sure that he will and that my hon. Friend the The Chancellor of the Exchequer’s Budget statement Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) confirmed the coalition Government’s commitment to will do likewise. a number of major transport schemes, and I will take the opportunity to repeat that commitment today. It is In conclusion, I hope that this goes some way to not, however, only major urban transport investment assure my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes that yields big results. In comparison with major projects South and his colleagues that I am considering a number such as the upgrade to Birmingham New Street station of different options for improvements to the way central or the extension to the Manchester Metrolink, proposals Government can assist local authorities in managing to improve local bus services may seem, and indeed are, their bus networks. I intend to make further statements very small. But it is important that we do not lose sight to the House once I have come to a conclusion on the of the significant impact, both positive and negative, best way to achieve our shared aims. that small changes can have. Question put and agreed to. Although every area of government is going to have to work in a more efficient way, a local bus network is vital to a local economy, as it provides access to employment, 10.55 pm goods and services for a huge number of people and House adjourned.

173WH Housing Need (London) 29 JUNE 2010 174WH Westminster Hall Housing Need (London)

11 am Tuesday 29 June 2010 Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Howarth. You will be aware that we have just [MR GEORGE HOWARTH in the Chair] lost an hour and a half of precious parliamentary Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting debating time because of the failure of the hon. Member be now adjourned.—(Angela Watkinson.) for Gloucester (Richard Graham) to turn up on time. The situation was compounded by the failure of the 9.30 am Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. Member for South Holland and Mr George Howarth (in the Chair): We are in some The Deepings (Mr Hayes), to turn up in time for our difficulty because the Member who has secured the 9.30 am debate. That debate was on the very important debate is not in the Chamber. We cannot commence subject of apprenticeships. Is there any way in which we without him, so the sitting will be suspended until 11 am. can reinstate that hour and a half of parliamentary time, which was lost because of tardiness that would 9.31 am not be tolerated of any apprentice throughout the country? Sitting suspended. Is not such a situation a contempt of the House, particularly given the number of hon. Members who would like to speak in this housing debate? Given that the hon. Member for Gloucester did not see fit to turn up on time for his debate, the hour and a half that was lost could have been used for the housing debate.

Mr George Howarth (in the Chair): There is, unusually, a point of order in the hon. Gentleman’s comments, but I think he was straying towards making a political point at the end of his contribution. The reality of the situation is that it is open to the hon. Gentleman whose debate was lost earlier or any other Member to apply to the Speaker for a further debate through the normal procedures. If any Member considers that the subject of the debate that was lost is important enough, that debate can be held, but it will have to be the subject of a separate application. I do not think that what happened was a contempt of the House, although it might be seen as discourteous.

11.1 am Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I am very pleased that we are having this debate, although I am sorry that it will last only an hour and a half. I am sorry that the previous debate collapsed, but we could well have used three hours to discuss housing in London, so it seems that a monumental parliamentary opportunity has been lost. I hope that the hon. Members concerned will reflect on the situation because we are sent here to represent the people and to try to deal with their problems. I am resuming the debate on housing in London. There is a slight feeling of déjà vu about this—the actors in the theatre have changed only slightly—because we have discussed the issue of housing needs in London many, many times before, and I suspect there will be many more debates on the subject. London Members know that there is no bigger issue, no greater stress and no greater problem that faces all our constituents than housing, whether that relates to people who are trying to buy, people who are trying to get social housing, people who are going through the problems of being a leaseholder or people who are living in private rented accommodation. The levels of housing stress with which MPs deal are absolutely enormous, but I need not go over that in too much detail because hon. Members in the Chamber will be well aware of it. The levels of stress associated with 175WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 176WH

[Jeremy Corbyn] in the same school. Those people are unaware of what will happen to them because of the lack of security that problems of overcrowding, and of uncertainty and surrounds such a situation. We have a very serious insecurity of tenure, lead to ill health, underachievement problem indeed. I mentioned the corrosive effects of in school, family break-up and unemployment, and housing stress in London. One such effect is overcrowding, they have a wholly corrosive effect on our society. I am a second is uncertainty, a third is the problems of not asking for something special because we are talking private rented accommodation, and a fourth is very about London. I am asking for recognition that the high cost, which is the matter that I want to move on to. whole country faces serious housing problems and that If someone secures a council or housing association they are even worse in London than throughout the rest tenancy in London, the rent for a two-bedroom flat will of the country. be broadly speaking around £100 to £120 a week. That One could quote many relevant statistics at great is a reasonable rent—it is an economic rent, not a length. I shall not cite a vast number of figures, but I subsidised rent—that allows people to live somewhere would like to run through some information that was reasonable, secure and safe. However, this country’s helpfully provided to me by Crisis. Reading across the very bad record on building social housing over the past piece, the average house price in London is £362,000, 20 years or so means that the number of people re-housed which is £140,000 higher than that in the rest of the by local authorities or housing associations is low. Most country, and the average income is £26,000 a year, local authorities say, “We cannot possibly house you; which is £6,000 more than in the rest of the country. you’ll have to go into private rented accommodation.” The gross annual income needed for a mortgage in Councils therefore assist people to get private rented London is £93,000—it is £109,000 in my borough—so accommodation and have, in some cases, an over-close we can easily see the disconnect that exists. relationship with various letting agencies. The rents in Total local authority stock in London is 432,000 and such accommodation are often very high. They can be housing association stock is 350,000. The number of £250 or £300 a week, but I have even come across rents new lettings by local authorities was around 23,000 last of £400 a week or more. If the people concerned are year, with 22,000 lettings by housing associations. unemployed or on benefits, those rents are largely paid Some 353,000 families are on the waiting list for social through housing benefit. For them, having a private housing in London, of whom 52,000 are in temporary rented place with the rent paid initially sounds like a accommodation, while the number of households accepted reasonable option, but two problems can emerge. One is as homeless is 12,000, although that relates to the last that such people are left in an enormous benefit trap, year for which figures are available. All that information because if they succeed in finding a job, they will lose all shows that buying anywhere is unaffordable, that there or most of their housing benefit, and they therefore are huge waiting lists for social housing and that the cannot possibly take a job unless it is incredibly well number of homeless people is rapidly increasing. The paid. One needs an awfully large salary to be able to pay 12,000 London households accepted as homeless represent £400 a week in rent. I suspect that that figure is far more about a fifth of the total for the whole United Kingdom. than hon. Members in the Chamber pay for their mortgage on a monthly basis. MrAndrewLove(Edmonton)(Lab/Co-op):Icongratulate As a country, we are therefore pouring billions of my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. I pounds in housing benefit every year into the pockets of apologise that I will need to slip out of the Chamber part private landlords who do not give security and often of the way through it, but I hope to be back at the end. provide inadequate accommodation. It is often very I want to raise with my hon. Friend—and indeed all difficult to get them to carry out repairs, as I am sure hon. Members present—the human tragedy behind those that all Members in the Chamber who have corresponded figures. People are living in temporary accommodation with private landlords to try to make them carry out for four, five or six years. They move constantly and are repairs have found. We must bear in mind the benefit unable to settle anywhere. The children of such people trap and the huge cost to the whole country. It is fairly are really badly affected by continually having to up obvious, as a point of principle, that it would be far sticks to move to other accommodation. Should we not better to invest our precious national resources in building be most concerned about that situation? homes for affordable rent through councils and housing associations, rather than pouring the money down the drain by putting it in the pockets of private landlords Jeremy Corbyn: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I through the housing benefit system. None of that is recall that in the halcyon days when I was chair of particularly new. housing for Haringey council, we were able to build a large number of council houses, some of which were Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) very good properties. We were determined to build (LD): The hon. Gentleman and I have held similar good-quality properties not because we had a desire to views on those matters for many years, and I have not spend vast sums of public money, but because we had a changed mine. Does he agree that we ought to encourage desire to conquer the problems of housing shortage and local authorities to use their powers to acquire all the the stress that goes with it. Three quarters of the people residential properties in their boroughs that are sitting in this country who are in temporary accommodation empty? There are now powers for local authorities to are in London, and my hon. Friend is right to point out take over the management of such properties, albeit not the effects that that has. their ownership, so that they can let them at affordable All hon. Members have seen people in our advice rents, rather than pushing people into the private sector bureaux who are living in their third or fourth piece of which, as he rightly said, makes things impossible for temporary accommodation and whose children have those who want to get back to work because of the had to move schools or make very long journeys to stay benefit trap. 177WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 178WH

Jeremy Corbyn rose— “to tackle under occupancy. From 2013/14 onwards, Local Housing Allowance will be uprated on the basis of the Consumer Prices Index, rather than on the basis of local rents.” Mr George Howarth (in the Chair): Order. Seven Non-dependent deductions are another issue. When Members have indicated that they wish to speak in the taken together, those proposals will be absolutely devastating debate, so lengthy interventions are not fair on them. for those of us who represent high-cost, inner-urban areas. They will, in effect, start a process of the social Jeremy Corbyn: I take your point and I will be brief, cleansing of claimants across London. Mr Howarth, because I want all Members who wish to speak to have an opportunity to do so. Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): Bearing in mind your earlier strictures, Mr Howarth, I will be brief, and I largely agree with the points made by the hon. I am sure that all Members wish you a happy birthday. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon With regard to the figures that my hon. Friend the Hughes). Local authorities do have the power to buy on Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) quoted the open market and to take over empty properties, and in relation to private sector leasing, is the situation in they should use that power. Indeed, my right hon. his borough the same as in mine, where the majority of Friend the Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge) was those PSL properties are former local authority properties chair of the housing committee in my borough in the that have been bought from the council and are now 1970s and undertook an enormous purchase of street being leased back to it? Does he agree that one needs a properties throughout the borough, which did a great strong stomach and a sense of irony to look at housing deal to preserve its street character and to house many in London today? people who would not otherwise have been housed. Clearly, there will never be enough land for new build in Jeremy Corbyn: Many of them are ex-local authority, central London, so that is one way of dealing with the although not all. I am constantly astonished when I problem. speak to people in my constituency who are living in I want the Minister to answer four simple questions. I ex-council flats that are privately rented and are paying am sure that he will give me positive answers to them all twice, or three or four times, the rent of their next-door because I know him to be a decent, reasonable and neighbours who are still council tenants. What is going helpful chap who wants to deal with the housing problems on in London is absurd and obscene. I hope that the in London, even though he does not represent a London Minister will at least recognise that the housing benefit constituency—there is no crime in not representing a proposals are punishing the poor, tenants and those in London constituency. [Interruption.] I do not wish to housing need for a problem that they never created. I be controversial, because that is not in my nature. The am not sure what the proposals will achieve. Unless statements that the coalition Government have made they are linked to a huge building programme of places over the past few weeks are disturbing, to say the least. for affordable rent, all we will be doing is making a bad They initially said that they would continue investment situation much worse and punishing a whole generation in infrastructure in our society, which I took to include of young people and children across London. I want to the current building programme and the enhanced building hear about the building programme, so I hope that the programme for council houses—the Minister can confirm Minster will be able to address that point. whether I am right or wrong. However, last week’s I shall make my two further points quickly because Budget included a statement on housing benefit that is many colleagues wish to speak. Has the Minister any absolutely devastating for those of us who represent plans to improve the situation of leaseholders who have London constituencies. It is devastating for the whole bought places, usually under shared ownership schemes, country, but its effect will be particularly acute in London. from housing associations? There seem to be enormous I should tell the Minister that 30% of my constituents problems about representation in housing associations, live in private rented accommodation, that about 40% live and many of them seem to have a generally unresponsive in local authority or housing association properties, attitude to high leasehold and service charges. and that the remaining 30% are owner-occupiers. Many My final point relates to planning issues. Most local of those in private rented accommodation are in receipt authorities in London have now adopted a proposal of housing benefit. I will quote again from the information that a proportion of all new build schemes should be for helpfully provided by Crisis: social housing. The former Mayor of London, Mayor Livingstone, wanted a proportion of 50% for those in “From Oct 2011, Local Housing Allowance (the new form of HB…) will be set at the 30th percentile (rather than the 50th as housing need, although I would rather it was 50% for now). This is probably the most serious of the cuts and will mean social housing. Is the Minister prepared to underline many more people will face shortfalls and/or find it very difficult what the previous Government tried to do by providing to find and sustain a tenancy. It will be particularly difficult in sufficient resources so that new build can take place or areas where more than 30% of the private tenants are benefit providing borrowing allowances for local authorities? claimants. This may well lead to an increase in homelessness. My local authority has a new cabinet member for From April 2011, rates will be capped (from £250/week for a housing: James Murray, who is part of the new Labour 1-bed to £400/week for a 4 bed). This will mean certain areas are team—not new Labour with a capital “N”; I do not likely to become no go areas for claimants, particularly larger ever want someone to misquote me on that. I shall end families, with significant implications for mixed communities and by quoting from his message to me: community cohesion, through changes to the 30th percentile will affect more people…Alongside this, working age people in social “In Islington we have thousands of families on the waiting list housing will no longer be able to claim HB on a property deemed for housing, many living in desperate overcrowding. It is not rare bigger than their needs. This is designed”, to see 7 or 8 people in a 2-bed flat—with the children often unable to do their homework, unable to have any privacy, and with the apparently, whole family suffering under the stress…The announcement last 179WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 180WH

[Jeremy Corbyn] London, and I agree. In the past few weeks, I have canvassed people in the Churchill Gardens estate, where week of a cap on housing benefit could put a third of Islington’s the precise situation that the hon. Gentleman described private sector tenants who are on housing benefit at risk of is prevalent. In other words, people are living next door eviction. This will only increase the pressure on social housing—and to one another, one in a council property paying rent so more than ever we desperately need more investment in social that is very low by the standards of the vicinity, and rented homes. You will hear the same message from many Labour politicians in inner London—and that is because this investment another in a property that has been sold two or three is the only answer.” times and is now in the hands of a housing association, effectively being passed on to nominations from the local authority at three or four times the rent of the 11.19 am property next door. Mr Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con): Many of us present are old hands at speaking in Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): Has the Westminster Hall on the continued complexities and hon. Gentleman spotted a potential inconsistency in persistent demands of providing affordable, decent and the argument of the Secretary of State for Work and plentiful homes in the capital. I fear that I have joined Pensions, who says that the unemployed in the north of the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) England, for example, should give up their homes and as one of the usual suspects in that regard, and perhaps move to London, while those on benefits in London in many other ways as well. The frequency of our should give up their homes and move to the north of presence in this Chamber testifies to the difficulty of England? striking the right balance when dealing with housing need in London. Mr Field: I fear that there are many inconsistencies As those who have heard me speak on this subject going back not only over the past six or seven weeks before will know, an ostensibly wealthy inner-city but, I suspect, over the past six or seven decades. One constituency such as mine is not in any way immune inconsistency is that we had a Labour Mayor of London from these problems—quite the opposite. Housing has for eight of the past 10 years, and housing development been, and continues to be, the single most important was almost at its lowest. In many ways, having overly issue in my postbag, along with immigration. No doubt, stringent rules prevented many developers from deciding the two things go hand in hand for Westminster, and for to develop; they sat on their hands and waited for any of us with London seats, because this global capital property prices to increase. The situation has made city is a magnet for those seeking to make their fortunes— unemployment a logical option for many people living not only from across the world but from all corners of in London, because it has been forced on them, due to the British isles. the huge poverty trap. That has meant that unemployment The pressure that the vast flow of people into and out in the capital, even in the boom years, was the highest of of my constituency places on our housing stock is any region in the UK. enormous. Rental values have shot up in recent years, The announcement in the emergency Budget of a cap and so too has the huge cost of providing for those in to limit the cost of a four-bedroom property to £400 per need, although the amount of money that landlords get week has caused incredible concern among my constituents. from tenants on housing benefit has similarly driven up I suspect much of that concern is caused by the uncertainty prices. It is, I fear, for that reason that some of the most of how such a cap will be applied in individual cases, shocking and high profile stories about housing benefit and I want to highlight a couple of typical cases that have come from my constituency; the £104,000 a year have come to light in the past week or so. Most of the home was in Mayfair in the west end. There are individual concerns raised with me so far have come from elderly families whose accommodation costs the taxpayer or disabled constituents, many of whom have been thousands of pounds each and every month. unable to get on to Westminster city council’s list for a I have a lot of sympathy with what the hon. Member council property, so instead they live in the private for Islington North said on this subject. There is a risk rented sector and have their rent paid by housing benefit. that some of the proposed changes will drive some of One such constituent is Mr Roger Aves, a disabled the most vulnerable people out of London, and that resident who requires a live-in carer. He wrote to me: will need to happen to a large extent. “You cannot get a broom cupboard in central London for the amount being proposed yet central London is my home and has Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) been since 2001. My medical input is large and being close to my (Lab): I heard the hon. Gentleman say that some of the health providers and social care was paramount to my choice of most vulnerable families will be driven out of central living here.” London, and I believe that he said that was necessarily Another constituent, William Richards, is an 80-year-old so. Where does he think they should go? pensioner from Pimlico. He said: “’I agree with a cap on total amounts although it may well Mr Field: I hope that the hon. Lady will allow me to affect me in the future. What is a bit mystifying is reference to continue with what I have to say; these issues affect all ‘percentile’— of us in the capital. In his Budget statement, the Chancellor referred to earlier— said that we could no longer have a state of affairs where people who do not work are living in homes that “which appears to be another way of reducing the benefit but is not made clear at the moment. I have lived in the same private ordinary working people simply could not afford for rented accommodation for 25 years. My rent is increased by themselves. Putting aside that principle, housing benefit 10% per annum. How will my flat be evaluated compared to the has also become an enormous trap, as the hon. Member rent of a social housing flat? Will it be based on the market rent of for Islington North rightly said, for its recipients in a privately rented flat in Pimlico or on a council flat?” 181WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 182WH

As many of us know, some of the most illustrious and system, the flaws of which have been glaringly obvious sought-after areas in central and outer London are to all of us who deal frequently with housing cases. I often cheek by jowl with council estates. Mr Richards accept that there will be differences across the House as says: to how the changes should take place. If the case for “The two do not bear comparison. Even now my pension does change is successfully made, we will require a much not cover my rent and I have been living on my savings for many closer working relationship with the boroughs, and years now in order to pay for the basic necessities. I may well be clear and frequent communication with London Members, forced to leave my home.” who will be receiving ever more letters from anxious It is vital that the likely impact of any changes is made constituents in the months ahead, so I hope the Minister clear to people such as Mr Aves and Mr Richards, and will pledge to ensure that there is proper communication, we need certainty at the earliest opportunity. which will be essential. My local authority, Westminster city council, supports It is also vital that the most vulnerable in our communities the cap, and lobbied for some time on reform of housing are properly reassured. If they are not, we risk undermining benefit, as it is essential to reducing the welfare bill, the most compelling aspect of the case for reform, particularly with rates of £2,000 per week claimed for which is that the measures should primarily be about larger properties in Westminster—rare, but none the fairness, with the hard-working being rewarded and the less real cases. truly vulnerable being properly and fully protected.

Ms Buck rose— 11.30 am Mr Field: I am sure that the hon. Lady wishes to defend the honour of Westminster city council. Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the Ms Buck: Does the hon. Gentleman share my sense first time, Mr Howarth. I congratulate my hon. Friend of irony that Westminster is supporting the cap now the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) on after making almost £6 million for the council tax payer securing this debate. in recent years through housing benefit being above the I shall not rerun all the figures that have been heard rents paid for temporary accommodation? Is he not already. I agree absolutely with what my hon. Friend aware that to be politically in line with the Government, said, and I also agree, up to a point, with the contribution Westminster is cutting its throat and the throat of its of the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster council tax payers to the tune of nearly £6 million? (Mr Field). The central issue is the implicit threat to so many of the most vulnerable people in my constituency Mr Field: The hon. Lady makes a very valid point; from what the Government propose on housing benefit. one of the main absurdities of the housing benefit I freely and openly admit that I am a cynic when it system is that there is so little incentive for local authorities, comes to their policies on what I still regard as social whether in London or across the country, because they housing—I prefer to call it council housing, but let us can get the money back from central Government. That make it broader than that. situation has to change. It seems that we will have, yet again, a rerun of the Westminster council estimated the worst-case costs at attacks that were made on social or council housing £8.1 million, reflecting the expense of the long-term under the first Thatcher Administration—the coalition temporary accommodation contracts that the council Government are actually Thatcherism mark 2—and we was encouraged to enter into under the previous can remember what happened during that time. We saw cap regime. Many would welcome the Government’s a massive explosion in homelessness. I do not think that implementing the new caps, and mitigating the associated there was a single street in London during that time that risks. In particular, places such as Westminster need the did not have its community of homeless people sleeping guidelines around local connection to be changed. Under in doorways, many of whom had serious mental health the existing guidelines, local authorities affected by the as well as physical health problems. The waiting lists caps are required to try to house people in their vicinity. grew ever longer, and families were placed in bed and I think that Westminster city council is particularly breakfast accommodation where they were allowed into concerned that the courts will find against it if it tries to what were, in the main, utterly appalling conditions. I house families out of the borough, leading to additional visited many of them, and I speak about what I actually costs, and more uncertainty and family disruption. saw. If those images had been presented to members of The guidelines need greater flexibility, and the Minister the Kennel Club as fit places for dogs to live, there must recognise that there are specific issues in London, would have been riots in our streets. Families in such for boroughs of all political complexions, that need to accommodation had to leave it at 9 o’clock in the be thought through. We need to ensure that local authorities morning and were not allowed back until 5 o’clock at can, to an extent, house out of borough when it has not night, in many instances. proven possible to find temporary accommodation in Out of the desperate need of those families—every the area at the new capped rates. black cloud has a silver lining—came a growing number There is much more that I would like to say, but I of charitable and voluntary organisations that attempted appreciate that other Members wish to contribute so to get certainly the children off the streets of London, I shall end my comments with these thoughts. Given where the then Government had deemed it was that the proposals are due to come in over the next few entirely right and proper for them to be. Many of the months, in the run-up to the next financial year, I wish children were of pre-school age, and, of course, there to say only that many Members on the Government was nothing like Sure Start and no free nursery provision Benches welcome the review of the housing benefit in those days. 183WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 184WH

[Glenda Jackson] This is a step up from the gerrymandering—I exclude the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster— What is being proposed by the present Government that we saw in Westminster. My hon. Friend the Member for housing benefit will recreate precisely those conditions for Westminster North (Ms Buck), who is sitting one all over again. No one in this Chamber would argue seat away from me, knows precisely where I am going that the housing benefit system should not be examined with that. That kind of gerrymandering involved decanting closely—many of us have been arguing that for a people from areas of Westminster and bringing in those considerable time—but to believe that we can improve it who were deemed to be Tory voters. I have to tell the by punishing those who have no homes without the Government that the fallacy that only rich people vote support of housing benefit seems utterly absurd. Tory is absurd. I know many people whom they would For example, rents in my constituency and in that of not regard as being even vaguely well off who are solid, every London MP who is sitting here this morning are absolutely committed Tories and will be all their life. way above the national average and, in many instances, The idea that the way forward is to create virtual way above the London average, yet the Government ghettos of a different kind is absolutely and utterly propose that a cap should be placed on housing benefit. unacceptable in a country such as ours, certainly in this I cannot in all honesty see the landlords who are presently century. We cannot go down the road of arbitrarily benefiting from the system saying, “Oh dear, are we deciding which properties can be charged for at a certain charging too much? Perhaps we should bring the rent level in this way. The proposals for housing benefit are down.” They will simply not accept the same number of monstrous, and they will, as they inevitably do in such tenants whose rent payments are dependent on housing areas, impact most on the most vulnerable. benefit. That is also something that has been growing I sincerely hope that the Minister, who I am surprised over the past few years. to find sitting here supporting such policies, will rethink Then we look at the north, where people who cannot them. If he will not do that, I hope that he will report on get work in London are apparently supposed to go to what he hears this morning in the hope that those above look for jobs. Rents undoubtedly are much lower there his pay grade will think again about something that than they are in London, but one knows precisely what could be so destructive for this city. will happen. The landlords will say, “Oh, goody.” If the Government are prepared to pay a certain amount for a Mr George Howarth (in the Chair): It might be helpful house, flat or whatever, up the rents will go. There will if I announce at this point that I intend to call the first be absolutely no saving of any kind for the national of the two Front-Bench spokesmen at 12.10. If hon. purse, but there will be real, serious human tragedies Members who are trying to get in do the maths, they played out on our streets yet again. will realise that it will be difficult to get everyone in. As my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North However, the more disciplined hon. Members are about said, the proposal will impact horrendously on children. the time that they take, the more likely it is that we will He did not say that—I am paraphrasing—but that is get more of them in. what he meant. It will impact horrendously on children who cannot do their homework or make friends because 11.38 am they have nowhere to bring friends after school to play or have a cup of tea. It will impact terribly on parents Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): Thank who are constantly left feeling guilty, because they see you, Mr Howarth. I shall follow your stricture and keep the damage that is being inflicted on their children. my remarks to 10 minutes or thereabouts. The proposal will also have appalling repercussions I congratulate the hon. Member for Islington North on the wider community. All hon. Members receive (Jeremy Corbyn) on securing this debate. He is right: letters and complaints from constituents about noise—in many of the usual suspects are present for it. They many instances, it is perfectly natural, normal noise. include some ex-Ministers who share responsibility for Children make noise, and if three or four of them are in the housing situation that we have in London. an extremely small flat with nowhere to play—more It is fair to say that housing has been neglected by than likely up a tower block—they will make noise, and successive Governments, and that the problem in London that will create the usual neighbourhood dramas that has not emerged in the past couple of months. There are we all have to deal with day in, day out. different figures for how many households in London I go back to my original hypothesis, which arises are looking for or waiting for social housing, but 350,000 from my cynicism and hard-won experience of many has been quoted to me. Whichever figure one takes, a years ago, that this is just another brick in the wall of substantial number of people need social housing. the attempt by the present Government to destroy social Clearly, as a result of demographic changes in London, housing as we all understand it. They want all properties pressure on housing will increase as the population that at present could be deemed to be social—whether increases. Demand might rise further if the coalition council, housing association or some other form of proposal to safeguard housing rights for people who are social housing—to be taken out of that sector and looking for work and perhaps coming to London has placed in the private sector. It seems that they want to an impact, which it could. The proposal has some put all housing in the private sector and to remove all merit, but for it to work, we need some spare capacity in kinds of support for people who will never be able to housing in London. I would not want such a proposal buy a house of their own or meet what will be the to displace people who are waiting for housing in soaring costs of renting in the private sector, certainly in London and who, in many cases, are being advised London, because they want London to be a place where that they could wait for seven, eight, nine or 10 years. rich people live. They do not want it to be a place where Such waiting times are being quoted to some people in poor people live. my borough. 185WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 186WH

Clearly, too, the housing benefit changes, to which London is in short supply. The previous Government many hon. Members have already referred, will have an did not manage to resolve the problem, but I hope that impact. There is some evidence, certainly in the commercial the coalition Government will do so. sector, that some landlords are responding to the present I want to refer to some of proposals in the coalition financial situation and, if not knocking down prices, programme that will address the issue. holding prices for leases that run for four or five years. Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): As Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): The situation someone who also represents an outer-London borough, may or may not have changed but the policy certainly I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about the migration has, so does the hon. Gentleman support what the of people from central to outer London—a number of Housing Minister said about looking at having no my constituents, who are struggling to find housing in secure tenancies for new lettings in the future? Does he the private sector because of the changes, are already support the £250 to £400 cap on housing benefit, which concerned. He hopes that the Government will make must affect his constituents as well as mine? some changes to prevent such migration from happening, but what sort of changes would he like the Government Tom Brake: Some valid points have already been to make? made in the debate and, perhaps surprisingly, one of the reasons for my being here today is to listen to the Tom Brake: I am afraid that I shall again have to Minister, who is a sound and honourable man, defer to my hon. Friend the Minister, who I am sure will explaining—hopefully, explaining away—some of the pick up that point when he responds to the debate. I apparent contradictions in a number of the proposals. I want to put on record some of the proposals that the know from his background in local authorities that he coalition Government have listed in their programme— believes, contrary to what the hon. Member for Hampstead measures, or sentiments, that can address the situation. and Kilburn (Glenda Jackson) said, that council and When the Minister responds, I hope that he can put social housing in this country has a strong and sound some flesh on the bones of such sentiments, as well as future. I am sure that he will defend that principle. give an indication of where the Government are going with housing, so that we have greater clarity about how Glenda Jackson: Going back to my theme, we have housing provision and needs will be addressed. heard such a proposal before but presented in different We will promote a radical devolution of power and words: essentially, it amounts to a property-owning greater financial autonomy to local government and country. That is good old-fashioned Thatcher dogma, community groups. We will abolish local spatial strategies simply re-dressed in another way. We saw what happened and return decision making on housing and planning to when that dogma ran the first time: a massive loss of local councils. We will radically reform the planning homes, businesses and families. The Government will system, to give neighbourhoods far greater ability to create that all over again. determine the shape of places in which their inhabitants live. We are exploring a range of measures to bring Tom Brake: That is the hon. Lady’s interpretation of empty homes back into use, as my hon. Friend the the coalition Government’s proposals across a number Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon of policy areas, but it is not one with which I can agree. Hughes) made clear in an intervention earlier. We are I agree that we need to guard against the potential also looking at new trusts and perhaps ways of providing impact of the proposed housing benefit changes on cheaper homes that people can buy—cheaper because migration from central London to outer London boroughs community trusts hold the land separately. or beyond, but I hope that Opposition Members accept that we are in rather a difficult financial position at the Emily Thornberry: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that moment. I am keeping a tally of their proposals on how David Orr from the National Housing Federation has to address that position. They have accepted the need to said that changes to the planning system, such as the cut 20% from a number of departmental budgets, including end of regional targets and the cut in investment, mean those of the Departments for Work and Pensions and that the amount of affordable housing built in England for Communities and Local Government, so we need to this year could fall by 65%? hear some sort of explanation. Indeed, the hon. Lady said that housing benefit should be looked at, but presumably not with a view to increasing the funding Tom Brake: I am aware of those concerns. However, a available. I hope to hear at least an outline of some bottom-up approach to housing is required. Again, possible Opposition solutions or improvements to the when the Minister responds to the debate, I hope that coalition Government’s proposals. I shall wait and see. he will explain how the proposals in the coalition programme will help to increase the supply. Jeremy Corbyn: Does the hon. Gentleman not I want to mention the promotion of shared-ownership understand that if we invested in housing with affordable schemes. Registered social landlords, such as London rents, through housing associations and councils, we and Quadrant led by David Montague, are proposing would immediately cut the housing benefit bill enormously: imaginative schemes, such as the “up to you” programme, instead of paying £400 a week, we would pay £120 a to make homes available for people who might not be week? able to pay a deposit for a property. The situation is challenging, but we have some solutions Tom Brake: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his or partial solutions to the problem of housing need in intervention. I assure him that I understand his point London and beyond. I should like to ask the Minister a perfectly, but he must be aware, having spoken in many specific question—just to get some clarity—on the decent such debates in the past 13 years, that housing in homes programme. Although the issue is a local one, it 187WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 188WH

[Tom Brake] and the opportunity, but over that period their attitude to building affordable homes was poor. That is the might affect other hon. Members. The London borough backdrop against which people will suffer. of Sutton was awarded partial funding for its decent homes programme shortly before the general election. I Last Friday, an event was organised by the charity, seek confirmation that that funding remains available, TreeHouse, which supports families with young children and I ask about the future of the programme, which was on the autistic spectrum. I spent the afternoon on the due to last for a number of years. Tenants and the Broadwater Farm estate with the Uddin family. I collected Sutton Housing Partnership are interested in what will their son, Adil, from Broadwater Farm primary school, happen to the decent homes funding. to be close to the family as they deal with their five-year-old’s serious autistic needs. There are eight of them and they To conclude, we are clearly in a challenging situation live in a two-bedroom flat, which is typical of housing as far as housing need in London is concerned. It is not need in my constituency. My message to that poor something that has emerged in the past couple of months family with six children is that their disability living but has been a long-standing problem in London, with allowance will probably be cut by the present a shortage of supply of affordable homes and, indeed, Administration, so despite having a three-week-old child, homes for sale. I hope that the coalition Government they can forget any possibility of receiving the baby or can take on that situation and can address it in the next toddler element of the child tax credit, because that will five years. go too. Mr Uddin makes representations to me about housing need, but against a backdrop of 3,471 people 11.49 am on the temporary accommodation list in the London borough of Haringey and, as we speak, 818 in emergency Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): I congratulate accommodation, it is very unlikely that the family will my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North be able to move from their two-bedroom flat, despite (Jeremy Corbyn), who has a long history of bringing to the fact that eight of them live there. Even worse, the this place for discussion matters on which Opposition new Government, because of their attitude to economic Members work as a team. My hon. Friend the Member matters, has deemed that the housing pressure in our for Westminster North (Ms Buck)—I hope that she London borough is set to become even worse. catches your eye, Mr Howarth—also has a long history of bringing such matters to this place. Opposition Members believe passionately that despite As London MPs, we are not here to suggest that we the tough economic times, the way through is to invest have cracked housing issues in London. We all have a and to determine growth. This is an opportunity for a long track record of campaigning on them, and new deal arrangement for our country, and Liberal understanding them, largely because we know from our Democrat Members should remember the opportunities constituency surgeries that London is a tale of two that Lloyd George put in place with his people’s Budget. cities—the two cities that my father found when he It is a disgrace that hon. Members who represent areas arrived here in 1956. He shared a one-bedroom flat such as Hornsey and Wood Green, and Bermondsey, with a small paraffin heater in Finsbury Park with five where there are poor and needy constituents, support a others. He is not with us today, but I know he is pleased Budget that will result in an exodus and social unrest. It that I now have a big house in Finsbury Park. That is is a disgrace. the progress of immigration. All of us in the Chamber have large homes, and all of Tom Brake: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? us have employment, but we are here because either we are moving incrementally forward on housing or Mr Lammy: No, I will not give way. We have heard moving backwards. The Budget and its housing benefit enough from the hon. Gentleman and, frankly, it was issues will move us backwards. I predict that the result pretty poor. of the exodus from inner London to outer London will be equivalent to what happened in the Parisian suburbs One in eight people on housing benefit is unemployed, and there will be social unrest in three or four years. It but many are workers—cleaners, shop workers, hospital is right to put that on the record. That will be the porters and so on. The pressure that the Budget will put consequence of the social cleansing of inner London. on them is unacceptable. It is a disgrace, and will lead to It is patently clear to all Members of Parliament who the sort of social unrest that I and my constituents represent London constituencies that the face of saw in 1985 when unemployment was 20% in the homelessness, particularly in London, is a black and constituency, and probably 40% among black people. ethnic minority one. Those are the people who will be We will see that again with the cutting of the future jobs cast out of Westminster, Islington, Camden and fund alongside the ridiculous, nasty policy that underpins Hackney to find their way and their homes as they will, the Government. against a backdrop of existing acute housing need in London.

We have a Mayor who is not committed to building [MR MIKE HANCOCK in the Chair] the necessary affordable homes in the city. Looking at the list of Conservative local authorities, I find it pathetic that only 200 affordable homes were built in 11.56 am Westminster in the last year for which we have figures; just 100 were built in the London borough of Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): We have Kensington and Chelsea and, even worse, in Richmond heard some excellent speeches from Opposition Members only 127 were built. Those authorities have the space this morning, and I hope that we will hear more. I will 189WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 190WH try to be brief. I congratulate my hon. Friend the look at ways of reducing homelessness. The number of Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) on giving households accepted as homeless has fallen steadily us that opportunity. over the past 15 years. Over the past year, a duty of London has always been a city of mixed communities. homelessness was accepted for 36,000 households—9,000 In constituencies such as that of the hon. Member for over the last quarter. That number is down. Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field), mine Looking at homelessness prevention we see that last and those of other hon. Members, we see the historical year, 123,000 households were diverted from making a product of that mixture. Properties were built by Peabody homelessness application. Fine. We all agree that keeping and Octavia Hill, and the 19th century housing associations. people in their homes and providing them with an They recognised that there were slum conditions in alternative would be a sensible thing to do. However, London, and that the poor have always lived in different where were those 123,000 households diverted? More parts of London. We are in danger of engineering a set than 60% were diverted to the private rented sector. We of solutions that fly in the face of the centuries-old have achieved a reduction in homelessness by placing history of London by making London, particularly people in the private rented sector. Now we are saying central London, safe for millionaires to live in. to those people that we can no longer put them in the We had a mixed stock of housing in our cities, and private rented sector in most places, so what will happen? that stock has changed, but the supply of properties has They will be homeless. They will make an application not changed. The buildings are still there, but the people and, under present law, there is a duty to accept them as who live in them are different. For example, Westminster homeless, so what is the answer? has 14% less social housing than in the 1980s. In Sutton, Earlier, the hon. Member for Cities of London and there has been a 7% fall in the number of social housing Westminster came up with an answer: the coalition properties, and in Wandsworth, remarkably, there has Government will change the law. I predict that they will been a 22% fall in the proportion of social housing change the law so that local authorities no longer have a properties. Some of the people living in ex-social housing duty to house homeless applicants; Westminster council properties bought their properties, and rightly so. Good has made it clear that it supports that position, as has luck to them. Understandably, they took the opportunity, Hammersmith council. Local authorities could not house and then sold and moved, so those properties are now those people because if they did, the entire policy on in the private rented sector. My hon. Friend the Member housing benefit reduction would be shattered. Therefore, for Ealing North (Stephen Pound), who has left the the Government will change the law to allow all homeless Chamber, said that some people living in ex-local authority households to be housed only in the private rented homes are paying rent of £400, £500 or £600 a week sector. They will remove all forms of local connection. when their neighbours are paying only £100 a week. But what will be required? How will the Minister answer We have heard about the employment trap being that? Will households be required to find alternative almost a justification for such policies, but let us not accommodation anywhere in England, or will it just be forget that rents cause the employment trap. Those who anywhere in London? That question goes to the heart of are living in private rented accommodation and facing a the implications of the policy. rent of £400, £500 or £600 a week obviously find it The Government propose to cleanse lower-income difficult to work, although despite that many do. If they people, many of whom work, from large parts of London. had the benefit of a social rented unit, as many of them That is the core purpose of the policy; it has no other used to have, they would not face the employment trap purpose. Those households will have to live somewhere— and the disincentive to work. Indeed, all the records unless they do not have somewhere to live. In 1997, one show that unemployment and worklessness in social of my first cases as an MP was helping a family whose housing was far lower 30 years ago than nowadays children were living in a bus. I predict that one consequence because all sorts of social housing—housing association of this policy will be that families will sleep in their cars, and local authority property—is residualised due to the on waste ground or on the streets. We probably will have reduction in stock. disorder; there will be catastrophic overcrowding and We now blame tenants and those who live in those we will see people living in the streets. Of course, we will homes but, in many cases, they would have been social also see people shipped away to the north of England. tenants if the available capacity were the same as 20 or What is the sense in a policy in which, on the one 30 years ago. We retreat to the policy that was actively hand, the Secretary of State for the Department of encouraged during the 1980s of shifting large numbers Work and Pensions says, “Let the workless come to of people not just to outer London, but in some cases to London to find jobs”, but on the other hand, the bed and breakfasts in Margate or to social housing in workless are driven out of London to where the housing Birmingham, regardless of all the local and community is? Such a policy is intellectually incoherent and, above connections people might have had. What a desperate all, morally indefensible. legacy we are still dealing with for families who were, by definition, going through the homelessness gateway and Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): If the last two therefore vulnerable. They had children, disabilities or speakers want to speak they will have to be generous to caring responsibilities, and we are still dealing with each other as we have less than 10 minutes. some of the consequences of cramming people into bed-and-breakfast accommodation and shattering their local connections in order to implement a harsh 12.4 pm homelessness policy. Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): I congratulate This policy is absolutely insane. Although I have been my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy critical in the Chamber about the Labour Government’s Corbyn) who has an outstanding record on this issue. failure to build enough social houses, they did—rightly— As he says, “Here we go again”. The fact that 11 Labour 191WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 192WH

[Mr Andy Slaughter] Mr Slaughter: I suspect that my hon. Friend is more compassionate than I am. Tenants come to me who Back Benchers are present shows the strength of feeling have three or four kids and they are living in a one-bedroom and the importance of this issue. The hon. Member for flat. They say that the council is blackmailing them and Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field) also telling them that they will never be rehoused unless they regularly attends debates on this subject, although I give up their secure tenancy and take an assured shorthold note that he and his new Liberal Democrat friends have tenancy in the private sector with what are, as has been not so far been in a position to defend the changes to pointed out, inflated rents. I say, “Stick it out because housing benefit. We wait with interest to hear what the once you’re there, they can do whatever they like with Minister says. you. At least you have a permanent tenancy at the I sponsored a debate on the issue about two months moment”. That is a hard thing to tell people who are ago in which I kept to my usual two themes: first, to living in extreme housing need. urge the then Government to build more social housing The system of direct lettings gets people off the in London, which they were beginning to do, and housing waiting list by placing them in highly insalubrious secondly to draw attention to the social cleansing that private accommodation, and getting them into undesirable has been going on for some years in my borough of relationships with the private landlords who are found Hammersmith. I will not talk about that today, but it is in local authorities such as Hammersmith. Schemes to a template for what could happen elsewhere. There are avoid homelessness by keeping people in private sector many clubs in the armoury, from demolition to sales or tenancies, the use of private sector letting—a relief after the refusal to build any new social housing, and in many the old bed-and-breakfast system—and, as my hon. ways that has set the agenda. Friend has just said, the removal of rights to permanent Even that picture, however, looks rosy compared housing, have forced people into insecure housing in the with what we see now. Not only have there been changes private sector and meant that a time bomb has built up. in the Budget, which I will come to in a moment, but we The response of the Liberal Democrats and the have had clear statements of intention from the Minister Conservatives has been to reduce the sum of money responsible for housing. I referred to them earlier, although available. Let us forget figures of £100,000; no one is in the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom favour of that or of £2,000 a week. We are talking about Brake) declined to comment, as he declined to comment £400 or £250 a week. I have been told that so far my on anything else. I know that he is a decent individual, borough has identified 750 families who will have to so perhaps it was from embarrassment at what his move, I think, out of the borough. There are very few Government are doing. suitable properties, although I think that yesterday we When my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster heard the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions North (Ms Buck) asked the housing Minister on 10 June say—I shall check Hansard for the exact quote—that he whether he would confirm that wanted people to find the right level of housing, the “new tenants—people in housing need coming off the housing right level of housing for people who live in London. So waiting list, as he described—will enjoy the security enjoyed by people move outside the M25 or live in a slum. Many of existing tenants”, my constituents already live in a slum, because of the the reply was that Government policy pressure on housing in the private sector, and that will increase. To pillory people and to say that they are “may include looking at tenure for the future.”—[Official Report, 10 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 451.] unemployed, feckless and so on is, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) said, As we know from the figures given by my hon. Friend absolutely wrong. the Member for Islington North, there are about 45,000 new tenancies in London a year, which represents 6% or Shelter has said: 7% of tenancies over the term of a Parliament. The “The vast majority of housing benefit claimants are…pensioners, policy could mean that a quarter of social tenancies in those with disabilities, people caring for a relative or hardworking London disappear. It effectively means that social housing, people on low incomes, and only 1 in 8 people who receive housing benefit is unemployed.” whether assured or secure tenancies, will become a bin-end, a type of housing that is being phased out. As Those are the people the Conservative party and the my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster North Liberal party are seeking to victimise—they cannot said—she has an exemplary record in raising these escape that. I look forward to what the Minister will issues—the product of the past 20 or 30 years has been say, but he has a very difficult task today. increasingly to use the private sector for housing. 12.10 pm Emily Thornberry: I wonder if my hon. Friend has had the same experience as me—I expect he has. A Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): It is fair to woman with three children came to see me in my say that housing is one of the biggest issues in my surgery. They had nowhere to live, and I told her that constituency, if not the biggest, and I am very pleased there was no social housing and that she had to go into to be able to take part in the debate. Having a decent the private sector. She replied, “But it’s so expensive, place to call home is something that many of us take for Emily, what can I do?” I said, “Don’t worry. Youcan get granted, but for thousands upon thousands of Londoners, housing benefit.” She said, “What about when I go to the housing crisis in London can be described only as a work?”, and I said, “Don’t worry; you’ll still get housing living nightmare. benefit to top up your salary when your children go to In my constituency, the biggest problem is that there school.” I now feel as if I have betrayed her by pushing simply are not enough reasonably priced homes to go her into the private sector when housing benefit is about around. In parts of Lewisham East, average house to be taken away. prices are 10 times average salaries. For many young 193WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 194WH people and public sector workers, home ownership is a who are familiar with the state of London’s housing distant pipe dream. Even the council’s housing list needs, that was not news. I sincerely hope that the new offers little hope. The list stands at 17,000 households coalition Government will do all that they can to improve but, in contrast, about 1,400 properties become available London’s housing conditions and to ensure that the to rent each year, so for each family that moves into a type of homes that Londoners need are built. I for one suitable property, another nine will be disappointed. will do all that I can to make sure that they do. For larger families, the wait for a suitable property can seem to take for ever. Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Thank you very In some parts of the country, overcrowding could be much; good timing there. I call Ian Austin, and thank sorted out by using homes better, such as by matching him for giving up some of his time to allow colleagues the size of a household more closely to the size of the to speak. property, but even if under-occupation was completely eradicated in London, we would still be left with a huge 12.14 pm problem. Private sector cross-subsidy for new affordable Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): Not at all, Mr Hancock. housing has not delivered the number or type of the new homes that are so urgently needed. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) on securing this fascinating This issue is not about giving people a cushy place to debate, which has been marked by passionate, live, but about giving kids the chance to do well at knowledgeable and expert contributions from my right school and giving mums and dads the type of home life hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) that prevents them from going nuts and enables them to and my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster North go out and get a decent job. I could not quite believe it (Ms Buck). We heard a brilliant speech by my hon. when the Chancellor of the Exchequer suggested in last Friend the new Member for Lewisham East (Heidi week’s Budget that one of the ways he plans to limit Alexander), as well as expert contributions from other spending on housing benefit is by restricting tenants’ hon. Members. access to appropriately sized homes. Will the Minister I want to pick up on a point made by the hon. recognise the devastating impact that overcrowding has Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake). on the lives of my constituents and will he assure me Of course savings must be made. We understood that, that the Chancellor’s zeal for reducing spending on which was why we set out plans to halve the deficit in housing benefit will not result in even more misery than four years. The question, however, is when we make the there is at present? I cannot help but think that the savings, how quickly we make them and whether we coalition’s proposals to do away with housing targets make them in areas of expenditure that drive growth and its weird obsession with so-called garden grabbing and get the economy moving again. Labour Members will just result in fewer homes being built in the capital. believe that we need more investment in social rented What assurance can the Minister give that that will not housing, not less, and that was why housing in London be the case? was such a priority in the £1.5 billion housing pledge The issue is not just building more homes, however, that we announced last year to get the economy moving. but investing in the homes that we do have. As the hon. Will the Minister tell us when we shall know what is Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) happening to the homes that we planned to build in said, a number of arm’s length management organisations London before the election? The Treasury announcement in the capital are crying out for investment. In my local on 24 May about spending cuts required the Homes authority area, Lewisham Homes is being inspected to and Communities Agency to make savings of £230 million determine whether it has reached the required standard as part of a wider package of savings in the Department to unlock £154 million of capital funding over the next for Communities and Local Government totalling five years. Other round 6 ALMOs in Lambeth and £780 million for this financial year—a financial year in Tower Hamlets will undergo similar inspections in due which, if we had been in power, cuts would not have course. Given the Chancellor’s remarks about the been made. Will he tell us what proportion of the importance of capital expenditure in the next few years, £100 million to be saved from the affordable housing will the Minister reassure me and residents of properties programme will be taken from the HCA in London? provided by Lewisham Homes that the Government Will he also tell us what proportion of those savings will will look favourably on the investment needs of homes be met by the cancellation of homes planned for London in London, and will he honour the commitment made under the kick-start programme? In total, 17 schemes to Lewisham by the previous Government? were planned for the capital, and this is a very important Will the Minister also commit to looking beyond the issue, not just for families stuck on waiting lists who are decent homes standard and finding a flexible way for desperate to get a home of their own, but for developers tenants to have the ability to set local priorities for and people working in the construction trade. investment? I have lost count of the number of times We had planned the biggest council house building that people have said to me, “I have a perfectly decent programme in two decades, but the new Government’s kitchen, thank you. What I want is a lift that works.” announcements have put at risk 194 of those homes on The scale of the investment required in London’s social a dozen sites across London for which we had earmarked housing must not be underestimated, and nor must the £15.5 million. Will the Minister tell us which of those long-term implications of not investing. developments will be going ahead? Given that the Mayor Housing is an issue that does not get enough airtime. has gone back on his pledge to build 50,000 affordable It is also something that the new coalition Government homes for London over three years and that he is seem not to understand. Last week, various news outlets abolishing the policy that half of new homes should be were reporting the impact that housing expenditure can affordable, given that Shelter’s former chief executive, have on the nation’s public health, but for those of us Adam Sampson, has said that the Mayor’s policies 195WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 196WH

[Ian Austin] importantly, we need to increase homeless people’s opportunities to get skills and work so that we change “perpetuate the wealth and class divisions in the nation’s capital”, not only where they live, but their whole lives. and given that London borough waiting lists have risen The Labour Government got Ministers in the by 20,000 in the two years to April 2009, will the new Department for Work and Pensions, the Home Office Minister say what stance the Government will now be and the Department of Health to work together more taking on the Mayor’s London housing strategy? closely than ever to co-ordinate efforts right across the Every home lost in the recession has been a tragedy Government to tackle homelessness and end rough for the family involved, but repossession levels have run sleeping. Will the Minister tell us whether it will continue at a fraction of those in previous recessions because we under the new Government and how his Department took action to help Londoners who were struggling to will develop it? Will there be ministerial leadership and meet mortgage payments. We helped 25,000 families cross-government co-operation so that we can end the and provided £2.8 million for local authorities to establish scandal of rough sleeping for good? loan funds. Will the Minister give an assurance that that area of expenditure will be saved from the cuts that the Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): You do not have new Government make? long, Mr Stunell, but here goes it. When we came to power in 1997, estimates suggested that almost 2,000 people were sleeping rough in London. 12.21 pm By this year, we were within touching distance of ending The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for rough sleeping once and for all. The only announcement Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): that the new Government have made in this area has Okay, I will do my best. Hon. Members will appreciate been an utterly trivial point about the way in which that it will be difficult to answer in detail the many figures are counted, but today, however the calculation points that have been raised. is done—whatever measure is used—it is clear that the I congratulate the hon. Member for Islington North number that we inherited has been cut dramatically. (Jeremy Corbyn), who has been a tireless campaigner Most figures suggest that it has been cut by three quarters. for improved housing in London. He does himself an injustice when he describes himself and other hon. Mr Mark Field: It would be wrong not to give Members present as the usual suspects. Housing need is considerable credit for the improvements made in relation a matter that people rightly feel real passion about, and to rough sleeping since 1997. However—and this is not hon. Members from all political parties have invested a just the anecdotal evidence of a central London MP—things lot of personal commitment in tackling it over the have been getting markedly worse in the past couple of years. I do not, therefore, want to downplay or minimise years. I accept that there is a big duty on the present the importance of the debate in any way, and I thank Government to ensure that we bring back some of the those Members who have contributed. I see from the significant improvements made in the aftermath of 1997, record that many of them also made speeches on 2 March, but it would be wrong not to put on record the fact that and although their language was perhaps slightly less there have been and there are increasing problems with hostile, they were equally firm in challenging the then rough sleeping. We need a new initiative to build on Government about Ministers’ performance. some of the successes, but things have been getting worse. The hon. Member for Islington North rehearsed very well the issue of housing stress, which we see in London Ian Austin: What we need is a commitment by the and in other inner cities, although it is particularly new Government that they will continue the investment evident in London. I will not review the figures and and initiatives that the previous Government were putting statistics that he gave, but Members can perhaps take in place. them as having been read and accepted by this Government. The hon. Gentleman and, indeed, all Members posed a There are certainly major challenges ahead, not least number of difficult questions, and I do not deny that in connection with rough sleeping among people who they are difficult. If they had been easy, I have a feeling have come to Britain from eastern Europe. First, the that the previous Labour Government and the Labour Labour Government set out an ambitious plan to cut Mayor would have solved them in the boom time, rather rough sleeping by two thirds, so I want to know whether than leaving them for the coalition Government to try the goals and targets that we established will survive the to solve in the bust time. However, we will do our best. election of the new Government. Secondly, many vulnerable Let me make it clear that increasing the supply of people with multiple needs are struggling to get the housing, including affordable housing, is a priority for support and services that they need. Although Homeless the Government. Link requested that all party manifestos included a commitment to tackle multiple needs, the Labour party’s Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): was the only one to do so. What action do the new Will the Minister give way? Government propose to take to help people with multiple needs? Andrew Stunell: I will, but doing so obviously reduces Thirdly, we need to increase homeless people’s access the number of questions that I can answer. to the NHS, because homelessness is often about not only housing, but health. Fourthly, we need to renew Mr Raynsford: I am grateful to the Minister, and I our efforts to tackle rough sleeping by people with no recognise that his time is limited. Given the commitment recourse to public funds. We need to ensure that those that he has given to increase the supply of housing, with the right to work can do so and that those who including social housing, will he tell us what advice he cannot are able to return home. Finally, and most has received about the impact that decisions taken by 197WH Housing Need (London)29 JUNE 2010 Housing Need (London) 198WH the Government to date—notably, the freezing of the accommodation in the country are in the capital, and Homes and Communities Agency investment budget the Government are committed to addressing homelessness and changes to the planning system—will have on housing head-on. That is exactly why my right hon. Friend the supply? Minister for Housing announced last week that the Prime Minister had agreed to a cross-departmental Andrew Stunell: Certainly, if I get to that part of my approach to tackle the problem of homelessness and speech, I will answer the point. The right hon. Gentleman rough sleeping. Many people around this table will has a superb, lifelong record on this issue, and I welcome know that my right hon. Friend has a strong personal his contribution. commitment to tackling homelessness. The new ministerial The fact is that there has been a significant gap taskforce met for the first time on 16 June, and its between the supply of, and demand for, new homes for members will work together to determine how the policies decades, and housing supply has failed to keep up with for which they have responsibility can help to address the growing population. Of course, that is particularly the complex problems that cause people to lose their the case in London. The Government will create a homes. [Interruption.] framework of incentives for local authorities to deliver sustainable development, and that will commence at the Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Order. It is clear earliest opportunity. Local communities will really benefit that the Minister has declined to take any more interventions from delivering the housing that they want and need. because of the shortness of time. Our incentive scheme is designed to encourage local authorities and communities to increase their aspirations Andrew Stunell: Thank you, Mr Hancock. I am trying for housing and economic growth and to take more to give Members the information that they asked for, control over the way in which the local community is and I have two and a half minutes to do it in. developed. I was asked about bringing empty homes back into In a short time, the Government have moved to free use. That is clearly one possible way of tackling the up the housing market, with the suspension of home housing shortage in London, and I am leading active information packs. We have also protected spending on work in the Department to make progress on the issue. social housing as well as we can, and that remains a My hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Government commitment. That is why we are using Wallington (Tom Brake) asked about progress on decent £170 million from the £6 billion of savings to reinvest in homes. The money for local authority social housing social rented housing—I emphasise that it is social and decent home programmes for the current year has rented housing—which was, unfortunately, not properly already been released and is not in doubt. Money for funded under the outgoing Government. Although future years will be considered in the comprehensive decisions about the allocation of that £170 million have spending review. I will write to him specifically about still to be made, it seems likely that something in the the Sutton arm’s length management organisation, as I order of 40% will be invested in social rented housing in think that he asked me to. London. That will require a partnership between councils, I want to challenge some of the gospel of pure the Mayor of London and the Government. hypothesis, which I heard from two Opposition Members. Many such matters are now devolved to the Mayor of Let me tell the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn London, and some decisions about allocations are very (Glenda Jackson), whom I admire a lot, that other parts much matters for him. Members will be well aware that of the country—some of us come from outside London— his London plan is facing examination in public, and I already have local caps, alongside local reference rents, have a feeling that those who are sitting around this on housing benefit. I can tell her—[Interruption.] table will want to make sure that their views are clearly expressed to the inspector during that examination. The Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Order. The Minister Government intend to the give the Mayor responsibility is trying to answer the points in the debate. I cannot for the Homes and Communities Agency in London to hear him, so Members will not be able to hear them help provide the flexibility to meet the housing needs of either. local communities in the city. Andrew Stunell: Several Members strongly made the Ms Buck: I am conscious of the time, but I want to point that they wanted their concerns about the detailed raise an issue that many of us are concerned about. Can application of last week’s announcements conveyed to the hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that the the Department for Work and Pensions. I give an assurance Government do not intend to change the homelessness that those concerns will be relayed, exactly as Members legislation to implement the housing benefit cuts? have asked. To pick up the point made by my hon. Friend the Andrew Stunell: The hon. Lady is obviously some Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field), sort of psychic, because I was about to say that homelessness let me say that the consultation should take full account remains a significant problem in London. As has been of the views of London boroughs and London Members. said, three quarters of homeless households in temporary I am quite willing and ready to give that assurance. 199WH 29 JUNE 2010 Low Educational Attainment 200WH

Low Educational Attainment The sad fact, however, is how little of that works. Despite all the things I have mentioned, the gap between a child from a deprived background and one from a 12.30 pm more affluent background increases as they go through the education system—the disadvantage widens. That is Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD): I do not incredible but true. I have secured today’s debate not intend today to give the Minister a big work load today, because I have answers, but because it is clear from all but I want to lay down a marker. I thank Catch22, Save the good work done by many organisations that none of the Children, the Child Poverty Action Group and us seems to have them. Michele Sutton, the principal at Bradford college, for contacting me and providing me with useful information, Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I congratulate as well as useful questions that I shall no doubt put in my hon. Friend on raising this important issue. Perhaps written form later. I may add a slight complication into the mix regarding the problem that he has elegantly identified: an urban-rural A few years ago, I was on the second largest council divide. He was careful not to characterise the problem estate in Bradford in the youth centre, where I have been as an urban phenomenon, and I am sure that he will on the committee for probably nearly 30 years now. I agree that there is also a challenge for rural areas, where came out of the door and a mobile library was outside. often it is difficult to measure at the base the problems I decided to go and chat to the driver. A young woman of social exclusion because of the dispersal of rural got on the mobile library bus with a toddler. The buses households and the frequent proximity of deprived are set up with a play area with Lego bricks and so on at families to apparent affluence. That has an effect on one end. I remember clearly that the toddler got on and educational achievement and the capacity of authorities started to move towards the books, but the mother said, to deliver responsive measures to the children in question. “You don’t want those; they are only books.” It is funny how things stick in one’s mind, but that said so much The problem is not just urban but rural, so there are about the possibilities and life chances that that child particular challenges for hon. Members who represent probably had. rural areas. However, I appreciate that as the debate covers England, the Minister cannot respond specifically The research on early years, and indeed pre-early to my Cardiganshire concerns. years, is pretty compelling. I know that today I am speaking to people who know about the subject and are Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Order. That intervention concerned about it, and I am not here to teach anyone was very close to being a speech. to suck eggs, but I want to mention the “Meaningful Differences” research by Betty Hart and Todd Risley at Mr Ward: Deprivation, of course, knows no geographic the university of Kansas some years ago. It showed that boundaries, and is everywhere we look. It needs to be parents from what they called the professional class had dealt with wherever it is located. interactions—words that were spoken—with their children at a rate of, on average, 2,150 per hour. Among those A great deal is being done in many settings, but it is from what they called working class backgrounds the all really amelioration and compensation or, in more rate was 1,250 per hour, and for those from what they prosaic terms, catching up. We clearly need to focus called welfare families it was 620 words per hour. That more on the pre-school and pre-early years settings. As is happening hour after hour, day in, day out. The we know, many children are already at a disadvantage cumulative effect of that in the first three years, if in the womb. This debate is intended to identify a extrapolated, was a difference of 20 million words between problem of which many people are already aware, to the professional class and the welfare class, and that is show that I know a little about it and feel strongly about before we consider the quality of the language, or the it, and most of all to send out a clear message that I am social interactions happening alongside language extremely keen to work with other organisations and development. politicians to address the problem. Clearly, many of the measures that we have put in 12.38 pm place start far too late in a child’s life. We can start at any point, but, to take the example of universities, I am The Minister of State, Department for Education very aware of what happens there in the way of pastoral (Sarah Teather): I congratulate my hon. Friend the care and financial support for young people from deprived Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) on securing the backgrounds. In addition, there is the Aimhigher campaign debate. This is my first outing in Westminster Hall as a to encourage more people from disadvantaged backgrounds Minister, and it is pleasing that the debate was initiated to go to university. Work is done in sixth forms to by a Liberal Democrat, with a response from a Liberal encourage applications, and in schools at key stages 3 Democrat and a Liberal Democrat in the Chair. I know and 4 to encourage staying on into the sixth form. In that the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat year 6 there is help with the difficult transition from Glass) wants to intervene later, but she will forgive me primary to secondary school, and other work is done in for momentarily making a smug Liberal Democrat schools and off site with those who struggle academically. point. Primary schools give additional support, including I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate. He is mentoring and one-to-one support. Nurture rooms have an active campaigner on the issue, and he shares my been created, and there has been a development of passion for matters of social justice. I hope that his parental involvement and learning enrichment programmes securing the debate so early is an indication of the in those environments. At the pre-school stage there is issues that he will champion in the five years of the early years work, with Sure Start children’s centres to Parliament. He shares the ambition of the coalition provide help to children. Government and, indeed, that of hon. Members across 201WH Low Educational Attainment29 JUNE 2010 Low Educational Attainment 202WH the House to secure better futures for children who live he said about the dispersal of families, which makes it in poverty. What he said about the importance of early more challenging for local authorities and other service years education was music to my ears. I am grateful to providers to tackle the problem, was a point well made, him for making those points today. and I am well aware of the issue. The policies that the My hon. Friend argued persuasively that deprivation coalition Government have put in place will include and fairness really matter. They matter to individuals specific mechanisms to deal with child poverty. and communities, and they matter to the success of our The uncomfortable truth is that the link between country. Sadly, as he said, where children live and the deprivation and low attainment exists across the country— families who they live with are still uniquely strong not only in my constituency but everywhere. My hon. predictors of how their lives will turn out. For example, Friend the Member for Bradford East gave some statistics, statistics show that a baby born in Harlesden in my but those given to me by my officials are even more constituency of Brent Central is likely to die more than stark. They suggest that children from poorer backgrounds 10 years before a child born in neighbouring Kensington, have a smaller vocabulary at the age of three than their which is but a short drive away. That is unacceptable. It peers and that, by the age of four, they have heard is an outrage that those statistics should still be so 30 million fewer words. Whether the figure is 20 million relevant. That is what why I am so passionate about or 30 million, the statistics are stark. Again, that is a fighting on this matter. challenge for early years provision. Low-ability children from rich families overtake high-ability children from Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): I thank the poorer families at primary school. As my hon. Friend Minister for giving way. In the past 10 or 15 years, pointed out, the gap widens as the children grow older; organisations and national strategies have resulted in children eligible for free school meals are half as likely our becoming the most data-rich nation in Europe and to achieve five or more GCSEs at grade A to C, including possibly the world. Those data tell us that the attainment English and maths, as those from wealthier backgrounds. of our highest-achieving pupils is as good as, if not better than, that of those in Europe or the USA; we are I welcome the opportunity to debate the subject and pipped only by a specific group of countries. However, to consider some of the reforms needed to break the the attainment of our lowest-achieving pupils is almost link between deprivation and low attainment. It goes to an international disgrace. Over the past three or four the heart of the coalition’s plans to build a fairer, more years, Government policy has shifted towards narrowing responsible and freer society that we should have policies the gap between the highest and lowest attaining pupils— to tackle the problem on all fronts. That could be done between pupils living in poverty and the rest, looked-after through better-focused early years provision, which I children and their peers, and pupils with special educational mentioned a moment ago, or through giving families needs and others. more practical support or ensuring that children from People who, like me, have spent 25 years working at poorer backgrounds get the same chance at school as all levels with the worst-attaining pupils, disadvantaged their peers. children and children living in poverty were mentally The question, therefore, is whether we consider running around the country punching the air because deprivation to be an automatic barrier to success, or such children were suddenly at the forefront of Government whether good teaching, good early years provision and policy. I seek a reassurance from the Minister that the good government can all play a part in helping to spotlight of the inspection framework and considering reduce inequality and unfairness. I passionately believe not only raw attainment— that that is a role for the Government, and we believe that those factors can bring that about. That is why we Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Order. We will have have already set about tackling deprivation, not only as to shorten that intervention a bit. It is more like a an end in itself; we are also tackling the systemic weaknesses speech. that highlight and deepen those divisions as children go through life. Pat Glass: Perhaps that is because I am a new Member. I want to know that considering such things as levels of For example, we are committed to hitting the 2020 progress will not change. child poverty target already laid out in legislation. We also plan a review of poverty and life chances, which Sarah Teather: I understand the point that the hon. will be chaired by Frank Field. We have set out a school Lady was trying to make, even if it was cut short. I reform programme. Most critically, we have announced reassure her that I am absolutely committed to gap- the pupil premium. Finally, of course, we have decided narrowing. For me, that is the point of early years to recruit more health visitors for Sure Start children’s education and early years provision. We may disagree centres to help the most disadvantaged families. about some of the ways to measure whether the gap has narrowed. We may debate the matter in more detail over Mr Mark Williams: I applaud that list of measures. I the next few years, but I suspect that we share the same was in the teaching profession in a previous life. What commitment to ensuring that the investment in early greatly impressed me was the need in areas of deprivation years provision narrows the gap—the point made by my for real measures to encourage parental participation in hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East. I shall say a the education system. I was involved in a pilot scheme little more about that later. to improve numeracy among parents. We need to get My hon. Friend the Member for Ceredigion that partnership right. I hope that the measures that the (Mr Williams) makes a good point. I represent an Minister listed will include a strong role for parents. The inner-city seat, and I see the consequences of poverty old adage was that teachers have children for six hours a writ large in my advice surgeries and in my constituency day but that they are at home for the remaining 18. It is office every day. However, the problem is not confined most important that we get official recognition of that to the cities; it is very evident also in rural areas. What and encourage parents as well as the children. 203WH Low Educational Attainment29 JUNE 2010 Low Educational Attainment 204WH

Sarah Teather: My hon. Friend makes an excellent should take action to support the disadvantaged and point. The Secretary of State for Education will consider that such support—whether through free child care, the that as part of schools’ wider role, but it is not only for pupil premium or early intervention—is crucial to unlocking schools. Sure Start centres also have a role in encouraging social mobility and overcoming low attainment. parents to be involved with their children. There are Strong learning and development in the early years also the informal and more formal literacy schemes that can have a huge impact on reducing the causal link have been mentioned. between deprivation and low attainment. It lays the The list that I gave is a broad package of reform foundation for achievement at and after school, with designed to break the link between deprivation and low 94% of children who achieve a good level of development attainment on all fronts. The danger is that we could be at age five going on to achieve the expected levels for fatalistic about it, but I agree with my hon. Friend the reading at key stage 1. Those children are then five Member for Bradford East that the first few months times more likely to achieve the highest level. and years of a child’s life are critical. However, we must The most recent evidence from neuroscience also remember that deprivation is not all that matters. We highlights the importance of the first three years of a can improve the lives of children and young people at child’s life. At birth, a baby’s brain is only 25% formed, every point in their development. For me, it goes to the developing to 80% by the age three, with most growth heart of our liberal philosophy that we must always give taking place in the first year of life. A strong start in the people second chances—there must be no closed doors— early years has been found to increase the probability of throughout the education system. positive outcomes across the child’s life; a weak foundation My hon. Friend raised various issues when opening has been found to significantly increase the risk of later the debate. In particular, I wish to speak about the difficulties. In short, the first 36 months of a child’s life Government’s strategy on child poverty. Reducing poverty are as important, if not more so, than the next 36 years, must be a fundamental part of our strategy to increase so good, properly targeted early years provision can do social mobility. The coalition Government are clear a huge amount to mitigate the impacts of deprivation. about the need to create that fairer society. To that end, It is also worth mentioning that we are looking at the I am delighted that we have committed ourselves to wider impact of deprivation and not just at the income eradicating child poverty by 2020. I look forward for measures themselves. Frank Field has been tasked by working with Ministers across the Government on how the Prime Minister to lead a review of poverty. We also to achieve that goal. My hon. Friend will be aware that have a new ministerial taskforce on childhood and Liberal Democrat plans for a pupil premium have been families, which is being chaired by the Prime Minister adopted by the coalition. It is a critical element of our and includes the Deputy Prime Minister. Its role will be reform plans. I believe that schools have a pivotal role in to tackle what the Deputy Prime Minister has described breaking the link between deprivation and low attainment. as My hon. Friend will know that we are keen to ensure “the everyday bottlenecks that frustrate family life”. that Sure Start children centres focus more on working with families from deprived backgrounds—those from There will be further announcements on the programme the neediest families. Children’s centres have much to of the new ministerial taskforce and how it will operate. offer all families from all backgrounds, but we must It will certainly consider some broad areas that are very ensure that they are better at reaching out to those relevant to a child’s life chances: parental leave and families who are most in need. For example, more than flexible working; how we can protect children in the 95% of families currently take up their free entitlement event of family breakdown; increasing access to safe offer for child care, but a disproportionate number of and secure play space; and helping children to avoid more disadvantaged families still do not. Sure Start has pressures that force them to grow up too quickly. We an important role to play in encouraging families to expect that work to conclude in the autumn and follow take up that offer and in promoting fairness. To a a timetable similar to that of the spending review. I certain extent, that is already happening in many of the certainly expect it to address some of the points about good Sure Start centres. We have some tremendously poverty and attainment that my hon. Friend raised at talented, dedicated early years professionals, both in the the start of his remarks. work force and in outreach teams, who are committed I should like to return to the role of schools. My hon. to reducing social injustice, and we have many good Friend spoke specifically about early years, rather than examples to show how we can achieve that. However, schools. He argued very passionately that it is early the Government can do much more to ensure that best years intervention that makes such a difference. However, practice is spread across the country. that is not enough; we have to ensure that we give Health visitors have a crucial role to play in reaching children, at whatever stage, the best possible chance to out to vulnerable families. They are there from pregnancy succeed. Schools are part of that critical mix in breaking right through to the first few years of a child’s life, so, as the link between poverty and low attainment. my hon. Friend said, they cover the earliest days of a The ethical imperative of our education policy is child’s life. That is why we are committed to increase quite simple: we have to make opportunity more equal. dramatically the number of Sure Start health visitors We must overcome deep, historically entrenched factors and to ensure that more vulnerable families access such that keep so many people in poverty and that deprive so services. As a Government, it is our responsibility to many people of the chance to shape their own destiny. help every child, whatever their background or By 18, the gap is vast. In the most recent year for which circumstances, to achieve their full potential. If we trust we have data, out of 80,000 young people eligible for professionals to do their jobs and free them from the free school meals, just 45 made it to Oxbridge. As a top-down bureaucracy of recent years, we can achieve nation, we are clearly still wasting talent on a scandalous that. Most importantly, we believe that the coalition scale, and that is why I am so glad that at the heart of 205WH Low Educational Attainment29 JUNE 2010 Low Educational Attainment 206WH our coalition’s programme for government is a commitment Sarah Teather: Thank you, Mr Hancock. You are to spending more on the education of the poorest. That absolutely correct, and I am sorry for forgetting to refer specifically picks up on one of the points that my hon. to the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) by Friend the Member for Ceredigion raised about the his constituency title. difficulties that rural communities face. A rural area I understand my hon. Friend’s point, but it is the may not be classed as deprived, so families from the Government’s responsibility to narrow the gap. We poorest backgrounds do not get the extra help that they must focus our efforts on that to ensure that young need. One of the advantages of the pupil premium people from a poorer background have a better chance policy is that the money follows the child, so the child’s of fulfilling their potential as they come into school. school will get money to ensure that extra help is That is the point, I think, that the hon. Member for focused on raising attainment at every level. North West Durham was making in her intervention a few minutes ago. However, it is not adequate to say that Mr Ward: I thank the hon. Member for North West because a child comes from a poorer background and Durham (Pat Glass) for her interventions. I have already has had a difficult start in life, a school should not put googled you and seen that you have made solid in that extra effort. That is the point about pupil premium contributions to the subject over many years. Indeed, and about ensuring that schools are clear about raising you have contributed to education, which I was not aspiration. That is why my hon. Friend the Secretary of aware of before. I am not criticising anybody in this State is clear about why he wants to give schools more debate, because I am aware of the tremendous efforts autonomy. He wants them to have more flexibility on that are being made by professionals and volunteers to the curriculum, so that they can focus on the particular raise the life chances of young people. As the chair of needs of children. We must ensure that we have high-quality governors of a school in a deprived community, I am teachers, and that teachers are absolutely clear that we really frustrated by the fact that although we have an have high aspirations for all children going through extremely impressive value added score—our achievement school regardless of their background. I hope that my is high—our attainment is very low because of the level hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East will be at which the children come into the school. However reassured by the Secretary of State’s proposals for the much we do, and we try to do more and more, we next six months, as we look towards a second Bill later continually face the problem of children coming into in the year. the school with low attainment. In conclusion, a mix of reform is needed to break the link between deprivation and low attainment. The reforms Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Order. That was that we have instituted go far deeper than ever before very close to another speech. Let me remind Members and are uniquely ambitious. There is no point being in that when addressing other colleagues in the Chamber, politics, fighting elections or seeking office unless one is we do not use the word “you”; we use their constituency ambitious to make a difference. It is only through a new title. I am not being pernickety; that is the custom of the approach to breaking the link between deprivation and House. Moreover, when a Member refers to someone low attainment that we can build a fairer society who is still a Member, they should do so not by their and ensure that all children have the opportunities and name, but by their constituency. capabilities to flourish. 207WH 29 JUNE 2010 North Wales Economy 208WH

North Wales Economy done in the UK. It is essential for the supply chain of the whole of the United Kingdom, and in particular of north Wales, that those projects go ahead. 1pm Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): This afternoon, I Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Order. That intervention hope to illustrate the progress that has been made under is stretching a debate on Wales quite considerably. 13 years of a Labour Government in the economy of north Wales, how fragile that economy is, and how Chris Ruane: Nevertheless, I back my hon. Friend on threatened it is by current proposals and possible future that issue. The vision of an “energy island”—the term proposals from the Con-Dem coalition. I hope to look he created—that he wants for his constituency depends at the reasons for the success of our local economy and on Sheffield Forgemasters making those critical engineering examine the threats from the coalition. I will be seeking components for the nuclear plant. specific assurances from the Minister on a number of Under Labour, we have seen a massive investment in specific points of the current Con-Dem policy. higher and further education. North Wales has a new The history of north Wales shows that in the last university in Wrexham, Glyndwr university, which is 40 or 50 years we have relied on tourism, heavy industry acquiring top-class research facilities, such as the OpTIC— and agriculture, all three of which have taken a pounding. Opto-electronics Technology and Incubation Centre— At Courtaulds in Flint, in the constituency of my right research facility in my constituency. It is forging links hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), there with the private sector; it is doing everything that a were 3,000 job losses and at Shotton in the constituency 21st century university should do. of my hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside It is not only the HE sector that is important; FE in (Mark Tami), there were 7,000 job losses in 1981 under north Wales has made great gains. In my constituency, the Conservative Government. That Conservative we have colleges in Denbigh and Rhyl and for the first Government decimated—dare I say annihilated?—heavy time in their history there are colleges in Abergele and industry in north Wales. Shotton steelworks had the Llanrwst. They are community colleges, rooted in their biggest industrial lay-off in a single day: 7,000 workers local communities and responding to the needs of those were laid off in one day. That was the Tory legacy. communities for skills. Those colleges are delivering. Labour believes in timely and positive Government Rhyl college is an award-winning institution. Llandrillo intervention in key industries. When we look at the college has 25,000 students and is one of the best run success of north-east Wales, we see that the last Labour colleges in the whole country. Government gave launch aid back in 1998 to Airbus— However, the first act of the Con-Dem Government £500 million of launch aid. From the ashes of Shotton when they came in was to reduce the number of university steelworks rose the Airbus factory, the most expansive places by 10,000, with more reductions likely in the factory in western Europe, which has 7,000 workers and autumn. How will the FE and HE sectors in north 700 apprentices. Wales, indeed in the whole of the UK, cope with cuts in funding of between 25% and 30%? How will we maintain Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend the momentum in north Wales that I have described if agree that one of the key issues that we must address is those cuts are made? Will the Minister guarantee that ensuring that future work comes to the Airbus factory the Government will make an analysis of the economic and that one of the key elements in that regard was the impact on local and national economies of those cuts signing by my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry before they are made? A cut of £1 in the FE or HE North East (Mr Ainsworth), when he was Secretary of sectors may seem sensible, but it could lead to further State for Defence, of the contract for 22 aeroplanes cuts of £2, £3 or £4 if it means a reduction in training under the A400M project, which the current Government and research. have not yet confirmed? Will my hon. Friend seek today North Wales has a big agricultural industry. The an assurance from the current Government that they Tories have promised an attack on red tape and bureaucracy. will confirm that order for 22 planes? Before they make that attack, may I ask them to learn the lessons of history for the agricultural sector—the Chris Ruane: I back my right hon. Friend on that lessons of their last period in government? During that issue. I give credit to the Government—I do not want to period, there was Alar in the apple industry, anthrax in be too negative, lest anyone think that I am—for the the pig industry, botulism in the food processing industry, decision that has been made about the AirTanker. People listeria in the dairy industry, salmonella in the poultry in north Wales are grateful for that decision. However, industry and E. coli in the meat industry, and who can the A400M project needs to be looked at very carefully forget that there was BSE in the beef industry? Many of for the good of Britain’s defence and of workers in those diseases came about because of a reduction in north Wales. food and safety standards in specific industries. Will the The Con-Dem Government have said that they do Minister guarantee that there will be no assault on not believe in big Government intervention in industry, standards in the agricultural and food processing industries, as they have shown by withdrawing the loan to Sheffield which would damage the economy of north Wales? Forgemasters steelworks. We do not want that situation I turn now to an issue that I hope is dear to the repeated in Wales. Minister’s heart—seaside towns. The second and third biggest towns in north Wales are Rhyl and Colwyn Bay, Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): The decision on traditional seaside towns that have suffered the same Sheffield Forgemasters may have an impact on nuclear plight as many British seaside towns during a long, development and indeed on wind development in north 40-year, period. The cause of the poverty in towns such Wales, because the casting for those projects would be as Rhyl and Colwyn Bay is the conversion of hundreds 209WH North Wales Economy29 JUNE 2010 North Wales Economy 210WH of former hotels and guest houses into houses in multiple training and a reason to get up in the morning. Their occupation. Slum landlords have become millionaires confidence has been restored, their CVs enhanced and by making money out of misery. The Tories refused to their job prospects maximised, but all that is under introduce mandatory licensing of those premises. Labour threat. One of the first acts of the Con-Dem coalition introduced it in 2004 and north Wales councils are only was to axe the future jobs fund. now fully implementing it. I believe that the Con-Dems are reviewing the HMO licensing scheme. Will the Minister Mr Llwyd: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on guarantee that HMO licensing legislation will not be securing this important debate. I appreciate fully what watered down? he is saying about the back to work initiative. Is it not Colwyn Bay and Rhyl, along with Prestatyn and strange that the Government want to cut back on social other north Wales coastal towns, have benefited from welfare payments and, at the same time, on back to co-operation between the national central Government work initiatives? Where are we going in terms of social and the Labour-led Welsh Assembly Government. In justice? the whole UK, the WAG are leading the way on seaside regeneration by adopting a strategic and thematic approach, Chris Ruane: It is déjà vu all over again. It is back to not in just one seaside town but in five or six seaside the future—back to the 1980s, when whole communities towns along the north Wales coast, stretching from were parked by the Conservative Government, who Prestatyn to Colwyn Bay. Welsh colleges, the local said, “Stay on the dole. Bring your kids up on the dole, authorities, the Department for Work and Pensions, and your grandkids as well.” We are only just beginning voluntary organisations, the private sector and the public to unwind 18 years of misrule under the last Tory sector are all playing their part in that regeneration. Government. Will the Minister guarantee that he will positively engage We have the facts and figures to prove that the with the WAG on seaside town and town centre policies we have pursued are working in north Wales. regeneration? More than 2,000 people went back to work between It is not only seaside towns that need regenerating. January and May this year. Our policies are working. When the Labour Government came to power in 1997, We want a continuation of the future jobs fund. The they told the national lottery to stop giving money to cuts were implemented without even an assessment of the Churchill family—£12 million for the Churchill whether the programme was successful. Will the Minister diaries—and to the playing fields of Eton, which had guarantee that he will monitor youth employment in received £5 million. They told the national lottery to north Wales over the next 18 months and that if it starts vire such heritage money to towns that had architectural to rise, he will press for the reintroduction of the future merit and deprivation, so towns in north Wales, such as jobs fund? What assessment has he personally made of Holywell, Rhyl, Denbigh, Llanrwst and, I think, Holyhead, the effectiveness of the future jobs fund, which has put have benefited because of those instructions. young people in his constituency back to work? The previous Tory Administration were riven with Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): And factionalism over Europe. We all know what the Tory Dolgellau. Prime Minister, John Major, called certain troublesome MPs, so I will not repeat it. Was internal conflict in the Chris Ruane: Dolgellau is another one; I thank the Tory party the reason why the Tories failed to engage hon. Gentleman for that intervention. positively with Europe during the 1980s and 1990s? So we have done well. In my constituency, Denbigh When they were closing the pits and the steelworks and received £10 million of funding from the Heritage Lottery letting seaside towns rot, they did not even bid for Fund under Labour. Will the Minister guarantee that objective 1 funding for Wales. In 1997, when the Labour limited lottery funding will be vired towards the areas Government came in, they applied for objective 1 funding, with most need? provided match funding and implemented the scheme. I The key to the success of seaside towns and other pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for towns is the back to work initiative, including programmes Neath (Mr Hain). At the behest of the hon. Member for such as the city strategy, the future jobs fund and fit for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), Betty Williams, Gareth work. We have only two city strategies in Wales. One is Thomas and me, he included Denbighshire and Conwy for Rhyl—Gareth Matthews from what was then Working in the scheme. As a result of that brave decision, which Links and I got it for the town in 2007—and the other is was taken against civil servants’ advice, Denbighshire for the heads of the valleys area. I think the town of county council received £124 million in public and Rhyl has the best practice in the whole UK. Rhyl is private objective 1 funding over a seven-year period. I leading the way. Its town-based, small area, co-operative, presume that Conwy received the same. collegiate approach across the private, public and voluntary We have made being in Europe a success for Wales. sectors resulted in an almost 20% drop in the number of Labour provided the match funding. Will the Minister people claiming jobseeker’s allowance in the Vale of assure me and the people of north Wales that during Clwyd between January and May 2010. The number fell the Con-Dem cutbacks, match funding and convergence from 2,242 to 1,836. That is 406 people back to work in funding—the follow-on funding for objective 1—will my constituency in the past five months, the best result not be cut back and will be included in the Welsh block? in north Wales. It makes economic sense. For every £1 given by the UK The future jobs fund played an important part in Government, we can draw down £2 or £3 from Europe. those results. The Rhyl city strategy hopes to put 340 young North Wales cannot afford cutbacks on that scale. people back in work by September this year; 190 are Will the Minister inform the House why the Tories already back in work. The strategy has achieved 100% of did not bid for objective 1 funding for parts of Wales its targets to date. Youngpeople have been given a wage, earlier, when they closed Shotton steelworks and the 211WH North Wales Economy29 JUNE 2010 North Wales Economy 212WH

[Chris Ruane] been supportive of nuclear power in north-west Wales, and I hope that will continue—a centre of excellence for pits? Ireland did so and turned its economy into the highly skilled jobs is what we are all aiming for. Celtic tiger. Could Wales have done so in the early ’90s? Will he guarantee that blind prejudice towards Europe Chris Ruane rose— will not interfere with negotiations on the next phase of EU funding—tail-off funding, which should come at Mr Mike Hancock (in the Chair): Order. Mr Ruane, I the end of convergence funding? point out that a number of issues have been raised. If Energy, particularly renewable energy, has been a you are to give the Minister sufficient time to answer success for Labour in north Wales. Sharp has located its them, you will have to start looking at the clock. biggest solar panel factory in Europe in Wrexham. The biggest solar panel in the UK is at the Technium OpTIC Chris Ruane: Thank you, Mr Hancock. In conclusion, in my constituency. The Technium OpTIC has just north Wales has an excellent story to tell. The fastest pioneered photovoltaic paint and is working on fission growing local economy in the country is the Deeside power. We will have the largest array of offshore wind hub between Deeside, Wrexham and Chester. We have turbines in the world when the Gwynt y Môr wind farm some of the biggest increases in employment; five of the is completed, despite the fact that the leader of the top six constituencies in Wales for increasing employment Conservative party has referred to north Wales turbines are in north Wales. We have a proud tale to tell. I do not as “giant bird blenders”. Will the Minister guarantee to want the progress that we have made in the past 13 years give up his personal opposition to the Gwynt y Môr to be undone by a Con-Dem coalition demolition job wind farm and promote wind energy in Wales? on the Welsh economy. Non-renewable as well as renewable energy companies operate in Wales, including BHP Billiton, which is 1.19 pm based in Northop, in the constituency of my right hon. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales Friend the Member for Delyn. We also have E.ON, (Mr David Jones): I congratulate the hon. Member for which has a gas-powered power station in Connah’s Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) on securing the debate, Quay. North Wales has so much energy that we shall be which is, of course, dear to my heart because I am the exporting it. Member of Parliament for the constituency immediately adjacent to his. There can be no doubt that the recession Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): My hon. has hit north Wales as hard as many other parts of the Friend mentioned that the previous Conservative country, if not harder. In fact, over recent months, there Government did not claim objective 1 funding. Does he have been significant job losses right across the region—134 not find it surprising that a former Conservative Secretary jobs lost at David McLean, more than 50 jobs lost at of State for Wales, the right hon. Member for Wokingham JCB, 130 jobs lost at PT Construction on Deeside and, (Mr Redwood), returned to Whitehall money that was most significantly, major job losses at Air Products in due to the people of Wales? Many businesses in north Wrexham, Anglesey Aluminium and the Indesit factory Wales, especially in our villages and small towns, are in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. The Indesit factory small businesses. Does my hon. Friend agree that the was, in fact, a major employer for my constituency, Government’s changes to VAT will have a devastating where more than 300 jobs were lost. effect on such businesses? Although the hon. Gentleman paints a rosy picture of employment and industry in north Wales under the Chris Ruane: I concur on both points. The right hon. Labour Government, it is not quite so rosy. Indeed, Member for Wokinghamreturned £120 million to Whitehall without wanting to put too fine a point on it, over the while Welsh schools were closing and services were past 10 years, the claimant count in his constituency has being cut, and the impact of the VAT rise on spending increased by 40%, long-term unemployment has increased power in the high street will have a devastating effect. by 16%, the youth claimant count has increased by 63% and long-term youth unemployment has increased North Wales will be exporting power through the by 71%. Although one does not want simply to trade Irish interconnector, from Connah’s Quay power station statistics, as I say, the rosy picture that he painted in his through Prestatyn in my constituency and over to Ireland. opening remarks is, unfortunately, not borne out by The project is being paid for by Eirgrid. recent developments in north Wales. I highlight the good work of my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), who coined the Chris Ruane: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? phrase “energy island”. It is not just a phrase; it could become a reality, if the Con-Dem Government do not Mr Jones: Given that the hon. Gentleman has already renege on Labour’s decision to let the replacement of taken 19 minutes for his opening comments, I feel that I Wylfa proceed. Will the Minister guarantee that his have to make some progress. He mentioned a number of party and his Government will not do a U-turn on the important points that will be of concern to all hon. new nuclear plant for Anglesey? Members who represent constituencies in north Wales and, because he raised those specific points, I would like Albert Owen: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for to comment on as many of them as I can in the time mentioning the energy island concept. North Wales can remaining. be a centre of excellence for both aviation and low-carbon The hon. Gentleman mentioned the A400M project, energy for the future, building a skills base of transferable, which is of significant importance to north Wales. high-level skills, which is what the Government aim to Indeed, the Airbus factory should be regarded as the do. With respect to the Minister—I know that he has jewel in the crown of industry in not only north Wales, 213WH North Wales Economy29 JUNE 2010 North Wales Economy 214WH but the whole of the United Kingdom, because it provides John Major. If I remember rightly, the lottery was John high quality, high-tech jobs that must be the way for the Major’s pet project. I am glad to say that the coalition future. The A400M is, of course, actually developed in Government intend to review the operation of the Filton, as the hon. Gentleman will know. However, the lottery to ensure that it reverts to its original aims of wing technology that is being developed at Filton is supporting good causes. We want to ensure that it is not shared at Broughton. The Wales Office is certainly very rifled by Government as a support to taxation. supportive of the A400M project, but having said that, The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Rhyl city strategy as the hon. Gentleman knows, a strategic defence review and the future jobs fund, which he regards as important. is under way and, of course, all announcements must We have to make a decision in this country: whether we wait on its outcome. I gently inform him that the create real jobs, with some prospects of creating real Labour Government did not progress the A400M project wealth, or whether we subsidise jobs that are guaranteed or commit themselves to it. only for six months. Doing the latter does not create real wealth and runs the risk of returning the young Mr Hanson: My right hon. Friend the Member for people on those programmes to the dole. The focus of Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) signed a contract the Government should be on creating real wealth. That for 22 planes before the election. That is part of the is the nub of the difference between the Labour Government ongoing review. and the coalition Government. The previous Government were happy to fritter away this country’s resources Mr Jones: Yes, but as the right hon. Gentleman through borrowing to mortgage our children’s and our knows, a number of projects were signed up to—including grandchildren’s future, without tackling the root causes the Sheffield Forgemasters project—very late in the day of the problem that the economy faces, which is essentially during the election period for a reason that is patently the enormous deficit that this country is running. The obvious to even the most charitable observer. enormous structural deficit and debt run the risk of The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd mentioned strangling each and every one of those young people Glyndwr university and Technium OpTIC. I endorse before they get a job at all. his commendation for OpTIC. In fact, the first official This Government intend to focus on reducing the visit that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State deficit, on restoring real jobs to the economy, and on and I paid to north Wales after our respective appointments ensuring as far as possible that those who are able to was to Technium OpTIC. I particularly commend Professor work can do so. That is why I commend the work Mike Scott, the vice-chancellor of Glyndwr, for forging programme that was announced today by the Minister ahead with OpTIC and, as the hon. Gentleman has of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my right pointed out, ensuring that the university forges strong hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris links with the private sector. Such an approach is certainly Grayling), which was criticised by the hon. Gentleman. the way forward. This Government are not afraid to face the real decisions We also heard about Landrillo college. Again, I can that we need to take to put the country back on the do nothing but commend Landrillo, which is, in fact, right track. We may receive criticism from the hon. headquartered in my constituency. I pay tribute to Huw Gentleman, but we have received the support of the Evans, the principal of Landrillo college, for forging OECD, the G8, the Governor of the Bank of England links with the private sector. and any number of chief executives he may care to The hon. Gentleman mentioned agriculture. I think it mention. The future of this country is real, genuine, is fair to say that over the years, the Conservative party honest employment. has shown nothing but support for the agricultural sector and it will continue to do so. Albert Owen: Will the Minister give way? The hon. Gentleman also mentioned seaside towns—an Mr Jones: No, I will not take the hon. Gentleman’s issue of personal interest to me. Colwyn Bay is an intervention, but— important town that has declined over recent years. It is, in fact, currently in receipt of strategic regional assistance Albert Owen: Why not? moneys from Europe via the Welsh Assembly Government. I echo what he said about houses in multiple occupation, Mr Jones: If the hon. Gentleman would like to listen, which have been a scourge of seaside towns—Rhyl in he might actually be pleased with what I am about to his constituency and Colwyn Bay in mine alone. However, say. I commend him for his advancement of the energy I must gently criticise the Welsh Assembly Government’s island concept. He understands that only real jobs will policy of attracting people into north Wales who have rescue Anglesey, and I commend him for it. I repeat my no connection with the area because doing so has previous support for Wylfa nuclear power station. I ensured that incomers can leapfrog indigenous north hope that it gets built, and but for the fact that the Waleseans. That has caused a great deal of concern to Labour Government effectively had no energy policy councillors in my constituency and, I am sure, in the for 10 years, Wylfa would now be well on the way to constituency of the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd being built. We have had 13 wasted years of Labour, (Mr Llwyd). during which time we ate the seed corn for future The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd mentioned the generations. It is time to get Britain back to work; it is Heritage Lottery Fund. I remind him that the lottery time to get Britain moving again. I believe that the was a Conservative innovation. He has already mentioned coalition Government will do just that. 215WH 29 JUNE 2010 Western Balkans 216WH

Western Balkans notwithstanding that background, it cannot be right for the Government in Belgrade to continue to support, establish and finance parallel political structures inside 1.30 pm Kosovo, including the funding of local elections, which Sir John Stanley (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con): I is creating an extraordinary position in which there are spent most of last week in Kosovo and in Bosnia and two mayors in some of the Serb enclaves, with one Herzegovina as a member of the Defence and Security elected under the aegis of Belgrade and the other elected Committee of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, under the aegis of Pristina. The international community alongside members of the Assembly’s Committee on must make it clear to the Government in Belgrade that the Civil Dimension of Security. I am pleased that, a continuing policy that subverts the elected Government through whatever mysterious processes apply in this in Kosovo is incompatible with progress towards EU place, I have been given an early opportunity to share and NATO membership, which Serbia wishes to achieve. my thoughts and concerns with hon. Members. The second major concern relates to the process of There is perhaps a widespread temptation to believe international recognition that Kosovo has achieved and that just because no significant violence is taking place hopes to achieve in future. The progress thus far has in the western Balkans, the problems in the region have been somewhat disappointing. Only 69 countries recognise been solved, but that would be a serious illusion, particularly Kosovo as an independent nation state, and that does in relation to Kosovo and to Bosnia and Herzegovina, not even include all 27 EU member states, as five do not on which I will focus my remarks. With regard to the recognise its independence. Those 69 countries represent most difficult problems in those two countries, I say just over one third of the members of the United straight away to the Minister that the hardest nuts Nations General Assembly. The hope is that, following definitely still have to be cracked. the International Court of Justice’s judgment on Kosovo’s independence, which is expected shortly, there will be a I will start with Kosovo. I want to refer to one or two breakthrough beyond the 69 figure. The key figure that security matters and then move on to the main unresolved needs to be broken is 100, because anything above that political problems facing that country. As we know, the would mean that more than 50% of members of the entire justification for NATO’s original involvement General Assembly recognise Kosovo as an independent was, of course, based on security. We remember vividly sovereign state. I hope that the Minister will be able to the appalling violence that took place, which was mainly assure us that the British Government will do all that committed by Kosovo Serbs, and the spectacle of hundreds they can following the Court’s judgment, with many of thousands of Kosovo Albanians trapped in the mud other countries, to ensure that the recognition of Kosovo on the Macedonian border. Since the conflict was finally passes beyond the figure of 100 so that majority support brought to a close, NATO’s role there has been based in the General Assembly is achieved. on the security contribution that it can make. There are three questions that I want to ask the Minster against My final key point, which is ultimately the most that background. They all relate to my basic proposition important one, is that the unhappy and unacceptable that having expended so much effort, time and money, reality is still that north of the Ibar river, particularly in and the lives of NATO service personnel, it would be a north Mitrovica, we effectively have a state within a serious dereliction of duty if we underestimated or state. It is an area under Kosovo Serb control where the wound down prematurely our security presence through writ of the Pristina Government does not run and KFOR—the Kosovo peace implementation force—in where there is a wholly unacceptable degree of Kosovo. lawlessness—indeed, there is no effective rule of law to speak of. The European rule of law mission in Kosovo, The plan is to reduce the KFOR presence from the EULEX, has thus far been a serious disappointment. It present 9,500 service personnel to 2,000, or perhaps has an incredible number of personnel in the country— fewer, so my first question is this: will that be too severe around 3,000—but has signally failed to establish an a reduction in too short a time scale? We have reinforcements effective criminal justice system in north Mitrovica and in the shape of three over-the-horizon battalions, but the northern Serbian enclaves. those are available on seven to 14 days’ notice, so my second question is this: is that period appropriate to The situation in the court in Mitrovica is disgraceful ensure that if the worst starts to happen in Kosovo, and truly shameful as far as the international community reinforcements will arrive in time? My third question is concerned. There is a backlog of 30,000 cases, and relates to information that I obtained in what was, I sadly EULEX has caved in to Serbian demands, including stress, an unclassified briefing. KFOR has been denied from Belgrade, that no local judges or prosecutors a particular intelligence capability as a result of NATO should perform in the court house in Mitrovica. As long budget cuts. I shall refer to that in more detail when I as that situation continues, we are effectively dealing speak to the Minister in private after the debate, but the with a fragmented state, so I urge the British Government, question that I want to put on record is this: will that with their international partners, to do much more to cut, which is motivated by financial concerns, expose ensure that the rule of law is re-established north of the KFOR to an unacceptable level of operational risk? Ibar river. Only then will we end the current situation I will now address the critical political problems in which, in my view, is almost akin to that in Cyprus. In Kosovo that remain unresolved. In my view, the foremost theory there is a single integrated state, but a significant concern is Serbia’s policy towards Kosovo. I have been territory is outside the jurisdiction and rule of law of visiting the former Republic of Yugoslavia, now Serbia, the elected Government. for more than 30 years—since President Tito was in The situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina is perhaps power. I am under no illusion whatsoever about the even more fragile and potentially more dangerous than importance of Kosovo in historical, cultural and religious that in Kosovo. The Dayton constitution was a huge terms to the Serb people, but I must state clearly that, success in so far as it enabled the appalling internecine 217WH Western Balkans29 JUNE 2010 Western Balkans 218WH fighting and bloodshed to stop. The fundamental problem, support for NATO and EU membership, and to bring however, is that while the constitution, which is built on more imagination, determination, skill and sensitivity layer upon layer of blocking mechanisms protecting the to the negotiating process. I believe that that is the way sectional interests of the three major ethnic groups, was forward, and it is the only way forward if Bosnia and successful in bringing about an end to conflict, it is Herzegovina is going to remain integrated, stable and, effectively unusable as a serious decision-making mechanism above all, at peace. to deal with either NATO or EU membership. Nothing illustrates that more than the issue of property, 1.47 pm especially defence properties. NATO Foreign Ministers took an excellent decision at their meeting in Tallinn in The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign April to offer Bosnia and Herzegovina the entry point and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): I for eventual NATO membership. They offered it congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for membership action plan status subject to conditions, Tonbridge and Malling (Sir John Stanley) on securing one of which is that it resolves the issue of ownership of the debate and commend him on his persuasiveness for defence properties. There are just 69 properties held by the case that he put to the Speaker’s Office to secure the the entities—in other words, by the federation and allocation of the debate so soon after his visit to the Republika Srpska—the ownership of which should be region. transferred to the state. So far, it is wholly unagreed and I assure my right hon. Friend that the new Government there is total logjam, which poses the question: if the attach great importance to developments in the western ethnic groups inside Bosnia and Herzegovina cannot Balkans and to the promotion of stability in the region. agree the relatively simple and straightforward issue of My colleagues in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office the transfer of 69 defence properties from the entities to have already taken a great interest in the region. The the state, what can they agree on in terms of imperative Foreign Secretary visited Sarajevo for a western Balkans constitutional reform? high-level meeting on 2 June—one of his first overseas In Bosnia and Herzegovina, we have a stalemate, but engagements—and the Minister for Europe visited it is worse than that—it is a stalemate over which is Macedonia and Kosovo last week. suspended a sword of Damocles. The sword is the My right hon. Friend raised important questions, powers that Republika Srpska has taken to hold particularly about Kosovo and Bosnia and Herzegovina. referendums, and the threat is that those powers will He talked about some of the problems that those countries trigger a referendum on secession. If that happens, and face as being the hardest nuts to crack. I am grateful to the referendum is carried and Republika Srpska secedes him for the examples that he gave and for his advice. I from the rest of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bosnia and shall address those points in a moment, but I should Herzegovina in its present form will collapse with unknown like to make some more general points first. and unquantifiable consequences, not only in Bosnia The Government have made it clear that we see the and Herzegovina, but elsewhere in the western Balkans. enlargement of the EU as a vital strategic goal. It will What can be done in this situation? create stability, security and prosperity across Europe I do not believe that a new vista will open up after the based on the firm foundation of democracy, the rule of forthcoming local elections in the autumn. That idea law and shared values. We see EU membership as an was put to us, but it is a complete illusion. Nor do I unparalleled opportunity for the countries of the western believe that it is realistic or reasonable to expect the Balkans to move on from the conflicts of the past, current High Representative to use the Bonn powers as many of which my right hon. Friend vividly touched Lord Ashdown did when he was High Representative—that upon. The new coalition Government fully and strongly era is over. Two critically important policy steps need to support EU and Euro-Atlantic integration for all the be taken that would resolve the crisis in Bosnia and countries of that vital region. Herzegovina. As in Kosovo, the Government in Belgrade This is a two-way process. Of course the international need to change their policy fundamentally. As long as community needs to play its part by sharpening its Republika Srpska believes that, at the end of the day, focus on the western Balkans, and I agree entirely with Belgrade will finance, back and support it, it can go on my right hon. Friend when he says that the west must being wholly negative towards constitutional change. raise its level of involvement and pursue a clear, determined, Most important of all is this: ultimately, the people of firm and active approach that is focused on delivering Bosnia and Herzegovina must own their constitution results. We need carefully to uphold the rigorous and vote for the constitutional changes necessary to conditionality inherent in the EU accession process to give them an effective decision-taking Government. We drive many of the important reforms on which he need to bring about a seismic change of attitude among touched. However, the countries must also play their the people of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some might say part. They need to demonstrate serious political leadership that that is impossible; I most certainly do not. It is not in meeting the criteria set by the EU. Obviously, that impossible because the Serbs in Serbia, as shown in the will not always be easy: compromise and flexibility will previous major elections, have already achieved that be required. They will have to take steps that may prove seismic change in attitude. They voted largely to put the unpopular at home, and they must also resolve outstanding past behind them and look forward to EU and NATO bilateral differences that, if not tackled, risk becoming membership. If Serbia can achieve that seismic change serious obstacles to one another’s progress. of attitude, surely it is possible for Republika Srpska as Turning to the two countries that my right hon. well. It will also require a major change by the international Friend touched on, I shall first deal with Kosovo. He community, which will need to adopt a quite different mentioned the fact that the size of KFOR will be policy from that adopted so far. It will need to offer reduced from 9,500 personnel to 2,000 or fewer. He much more carrot than stick, to offer incentives to get rightly raised the point that the over-the-horizon battalions 219WH Western Balkans29 JUNE 2010 Western Balkans 220WH

[Mr Henry Bellingham] join NATO’s membership action plan, and NATO has made it clear that it will do so when the defence property are on 17 to 14 days’ notice, I believe he said, and he that he referred to has been properly apportioned. That asked whether reinforcements would arrive in time. I is why we urge the country’s leaders to meet the clear shall refer that important question to my colleague at criteria set out by NATO in that regard. the Ministry of Defence, the Minister for the Armed I agree with my right hon. Friend and find it staggering Forces, to try to get a firm answer for him. that, following the Tallinn conference when Bosnia and My right hon. Friend also asked about the withdrawal Herzegovina made it clear that it wants to push ahead of important intelligence capability, which I understand with its NATO membership, it has since dragged its feet was done, as he said, on financial grounds. He suggested and there has been a logjam. I share his frustration and, that it may well put the whole operation at risk, and I indeed, amazement that progress has not been made. share his concerns. It is obviously something that we One would have thought that the goal and what is at ought to look at as a matter or urgency. Again, I shall stake for Bosnia and Herzegovina in joining NATO come back to him on that point, and I should like to would be incentive enough to ensure that the problem is accept his invitation to have a private chat about it after sorted out. I would not have thought it beyond the wit the debate. of officials and bureaucrats to get a grip on the matter, My right hon. Friend mentioned the process of the but it does require renewed political leadership. I entirely international recognition of Kosovo. He put very well agree with my right hon. Friend that that is exactly what his vivid recollections of some of the wretched and sad that country must do. events that afflicted this troubled area and also mentioned NATO sacrifices. I agree that that in itself is a good My right hon. Friend mentioned the sword of Damocles, reason to ensure that movement is made to resolve the as he put it, and the fact that there may well be several problems and, above all, to ensure that Kosovo receives referendums. I agree entirely that a fundamental change international recognition. in policy is needed on the part of Belgrade. There needs My right hon. Friend said that only 69 countries to be a change in attitude and culture. Likewise, he currently recognise Kosovo, and that five EU countries mentioned that there needs to be a change in attitude in are non-recognisers. I saw those figures when I was the international community—a change of approach, a being briefed for this debate and found them surprising. revitalised approach—but I think that, above all else, That is certainly one of the things that the coalition will what needs to be made crystal clear is that both Serbia look at. The Foreign Secretary spoke about intensifying and Bosnia and Herzegovina want to join the EU and bilateral relations with several key European partners that the criteria for doing so are simple. They will have and other countries, and we need to look at exactly that to resolve their problems in a statesmanlike, constructive kind of issue. We need to ask those countries to explain and coherent manner. If they do not do that, the why they do not recognise Kosovo, in line with the vast chances of their coming into the EU will diminish majority of other European countries. substantially. My right hon. Friend mentioned the activities and I agree, as my right hon. Friend spelt out so clearly, machinations that are being controlled from Serbia, that in both Kosovo—he mentioned the area north of particularly the initiatives that have resulted in two the Ibar river, where there is almost a state within a state mayors currently being in place, undermining each other. and lawlessness prevails—and in Republika Srpska, That was a good point. I agree entirely with what he where exactly the same thing is happening, Serbia is said about the area north of the Ibar river, where there intervening behind the scenes. In the case of Republika is a state within a state and all the resulting lawlessness. Srpska, it is trying to encourage a secessionist movement We shall watch the outcome of the extremely important that would have the effect of completely destroying International Court of Justice decision and advisory Bosnia and Herzegovina. We must be absolutely aware opinion on Kosovo’s declaration of independence, which of that and make it crystal clear to Serbia that what it is are coming up. Obviously, we must await what the court doing is not in its own interests. It is incredibly destructive, says, but we will look at its decision carefully and, above and it will simply delay the date when it will be eligible all, use it as a spur to reinvigorate the international to come into the EU. campaign that is being promoted by several European Once again, I thank my right hon. Friend for securing countries to ensure that other countries row in behind this debate. There may well be some points that I have the Kosovo independence movement and to ensure that not had a chance to touch on. If so, I shall write to him, the figure of 69 increases substantially to 100, which is and I shall certainly refer certain points to the MOD. very much in line with the objectives of Her Majesty’s The point about the battalions is important. Government. Indeed, when my hon. Friend the Minister for Europe visited Kosovo last week, he made those I should like to underline the importance that the very points. He made it absolutely clear that Kosovo’s Government attach to countries in the region intensifying independence and territorial integrity are a matter of efforts towards reconciliation and improved regional fact and irreversible, and he warned specifically against co-operation. Some positive steps have been taken in any attempt to use the occasion of the ICJ advisory recent months: Serbia, Turkey and Bosnia and Herzegovina opinion as a pretext for returning to a discussion of have sought to improve their relations through the status. He underlined the Government’s full support for Istanbul declaration, and the Serbian parliamentary Kosovo’s EU perspective as part of the western Balkans resolution condemning the Srebrenica massacre was a region moving towards EU membership. He is very welcome step towards greater reconciliation in the region. much on the case and working extremely hard. Slovenia’s and Croatia’s Brdo process is a welcome On Bosnia and Herzegovina, I am grateful to my initiative to promote active co-operation across the right hon. Friend for stressing the point about defence region, and the coalition Government strongly encourage reform. Bosnia and Herzegovina has been invited to further such effort. 221WH Western Balkans29 JUNE 2010 Western Balkans 222WH

To conclude, the Government will continue to be Friend so eloquently touched on, and if that happens, actively engaged in the western Balkans. We will seek, for the first time in our lives the region will be incredibly encourage and promote effort and positive momentum stable and have a bright future. to ensure that all countries in the region are put fully Question put and agreed to. and irreversibly on the path to joining the EU and NATO. If they look at those goals positively and show statesmanship, that in itself will be the biggest driver of 1.59 pm all in solving some of the problems that my right hon. Sitting adjourned.

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parliamentary scrutiny committees in the House of Written Ministerial Commons have not yet formed. However, if the UK had not opted in, it could have put the success of the Statements whole agreement in jeopardy. Treasury Ministers have, of course, provided a full explanatory memorandum on the document to both Tuesday 29 June 2010 Houses, and will be taking this issue forward with the scrutiny committees as soon as possible. TREASURY Finance Bill 2010 Child Trust Fund Regulations The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Gauke): The Finance Bill will be published on 1 July. Hoban): The Government have today laid draft regulations Explanatory notes on the Bill will be available in the before both Houses, which would reduce Government Vote Office and the Printed Paper Office and placed in contributions into child trust funds from August 2010. the Libraries of both Houses on that day. Copies of the The Government announced on 24 May 2010 that explanatory notes will be available on the Treasury’s they intended to reduce and then stop Government website. contributions to child trust funds, as part of achieving £6.2 billion of savings from Government spending in 2010-11. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS These regulations would reduce Government contributions into child trust funds at birth, and stop Local Enterprise Partnerships Government contributions at age seven, due from August 2010. They would also stop disability payments into The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and child trust funds due from 6 April 2011, but the funding Skills (Vince Cable): I, together with my right hon. allocated to make disability payments in future years Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and will be redirected to provide additional respite breaks. Local Government, would like to inform the House The Government will separately introduce a Bill to that today we have jointly written to local authorities stop all Government contributions to child trust funds and business seeking outline proposals for local enterprise at birth due from January 2011. partnerships. In the coalition’s programme for government we set out that we will support the creation of local enterprise Terrorist Finance Tracking Programme (EU-US partnerships—joint local authority-business bodies Agreement) brought forward by local authorities themselves to promote local economic development—to replace regional development agencies (RDAs). This letter is the first The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark step in realising this commitment. Hoban): Following the conclusion of negotiations between The rationale behind these proposals is to create a the EU and the US, the Council yesterday signed an more effective economic development structure to drive agreement with the United States that will allow financial growth and maintain recovery. The structures we put in messaging data stored in EU territory to be shared with place should ensure that the right conditions for growth the United States Treasury Department for its terrorist exist throughout the country. finance tracking programme (TFTP). The Government have opted in to the signing of this agreement. A copy of the letter has been placed in the House Library. The TFTP has brought significant security benefits to the EU and to the UK. Leads it has generated have provided valuable contributions to a number of COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT investigations, including: the Bali bombing in 2002, the Van Gogh terrorist-related murder in the Netherlands Planning Reform in 2004, the plan to attack New York’s John F. Kennedy airport in 2007, an Islamic Jihad Union plot to attack Germany, the attacks in Mumbai in 2008 and the The Minister of State, Department for Communities Jakarta hotel attacks in 2009. This agreement will further and Local Government (Greg Clark): Infrastructure is increase its effectiveness by imposing a binding requirement vital to the health and well-being of our nation. It is the on the US Treasury to search the Society for Worldwide backbone of our economy and its proper maintenance Interbank Financial Telecommunications (SWIFT) data and renewal is critical for growth. We need to generate on request from EU member states that comply with power and deliver it to our homes and businesses. We the terms of the agreement. It also contains strict yet need ports to import and export goods and modern proportionate data protection provisions. transport infrastructure to sustain a dynamic and The Government believe that parliamentary scrutiny entrepreneurial economy and to improve our quality of of European business is extremely important and regret life. Without new infrastructure networks we risk the that, on this occasion, it has not been possible to economic recovery of the nation. complete parliamentary scrutiny of this important decision Because decisions on new major infrastructure are so through the appropriate mechanism, as the timetable important and affect so many people we will be making for the adoption of the agreement was rapid and the a number of changes to the way in which policy is 35WS Written Ministerial Statements29 JUNE 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 36WS established, applications are handled and decisions taken. examination of such applications to continue without We will include the necessary measures within primary interruption, through a seamless transfer to the new legislation to be brought forward in the current session Major Infrastructure Planning Unit. There is no question of Parliament. of applications having to restart the process and we Abolition of the Infrastructure Planning Commission intend that the statutory timetable for decision-taking will be no longer than the current regime. The Government want a planning system for major infrastructure which is rapid, predictable and accountable. The Government want to have national policy statements But we do not believe it is right that decisions on major in place as rapidly as possible. In particular, we intend infrastructure applications be taken by an unelected to complete the process for making the energy (including quango. They should be made by Ministers. We will nuclear) national policy statements, which are part-way therefore be abolishing the unelected Infrastructure Planning through the scrutiny process, and will bring forward Commission and reintroducing democratic accountability revised final texts and ask Parliament to ratify them. We in line with the coalition agreement: are still considering how best to take forward the remaining “We will abolish the unelected Infrastructure Planning Commission national policy statements under development, and and replace it with an efficient and democratically accountable will be publishing a more detailed implementation plan system that provides a fast-track process for major infrastructure —including transitional arrangements and a revised projects.” timetable—later in the summer. Our intention is therefore to establish a Major Infrastructure Planning Unit as part of the Planning Inspectorate—an existing agency of Communities and ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Local Government—which will retain the strengths of the streamlined processes and the experience of the Planning Inspectorate. The Government will put these Arm’s-length Bodies changes into effect as soon as possible. In the interim, we have asked the Infrastructure Planning Commission and the Planning Inspectorate to consider now how The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and they can work together and identify efficiency savings. Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): The delivery of Further transitional arrangements are set out below. public services is at the heart of DEFRA’S role. From National Policy Statements flood defences to animal health, from making payments to farmers to conserving biodiversity, DEFRA protects We are committed to openness and transparency and our natural environment, supports British food and it follows that planning decisions should be taken within farming industries and promotes the green economy. a clear policy framework, and within clear time limits, making these decisions as predictable as possible. The But DEFRA has a very big network, with over Government will therefore be pressing ahead with the 80 arm’s-length bodies. In my first month, I have made development of national policy statements and will it my priority to examine the network critically. In line issue a more detailed statement on them later in the with the coalition Government’s commitments, I am summer. applying the “three Government tests” to each of our bodies: Does it perform a technical function? Does it The Government also want to ensure that national need to be politically impartial? Does it act independently policy statements, and the decisions that will be based to establish facts? upon them, are as robust as possible, thus minimising I am announcing today the first results of this work. the risk of successful judicial review, particularly by The Government are committed to improving the those wishing to abuse the system. We believe therefore quality of life for those living and working in rural that the decision-making framework for major infrastructure areas and intend to put the fair treatment of rural should have the strongest possible democratic legitimacy. communities at the centre of Government. Ministers That is why we will be ensuring that national policy will lead rural policy from within my Department; I statements are ratified by Parliament. National policy have decided accordingly to abolish the Commission for statements are critically important documents and they Rural Communities as an independent body. should be subject to public consultation with appropriate local and community engagement, and both scrutinised The Commission for Rural Communities (CRC) is a and ratified by Parliament before designation. DEFRA-funded non-departmental public body that was established under the Natural Environment and Transitional arrangements Rural Communities Act on 1 October 2006. Until new legislation is in place the Infrastructure The Government believe policy advice should be Planning Commission will continue in its present role carried out by Departments, not arm’s-length bodies. until it is abolished. During this interim period, should DEFRA will, therefore, reinforce its capacity to undertake an application reach decision-stage and where the relevant rural work within the Department: a strengthened Rural national policy statement has been designated, the Communities Policy Unit will work across Government Infrastructure Planning Commission will decide the to ensure that the interests of rural communities are application. If an application reaches decision stage fully reflected in policies and programmes. and the relevant national policy statement has not been In taking this action, I pay tribute to the commitment designated, the Infrastructure Planning Commission and quality of work undertaken by the Commission for will make a recommendation to the Secretary of State, Rural Communities, its staff, commissioners and its who will take the decision. chairman, the Rev. Dr Stuart Burgess CBE, over the For those applications under active consideration past four years. My Department will continue to work by the Infrastructure Planning Commission when it closely with the CRC during the transition to the new is abolished, transitional provisions will enable the arrangements so that we build on its achievements. 37WS Written Ministerial Statements29 JUNE 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 38WS

The Animal Health Agency and the Veterinary Sustain planned spending this financial year on our bilateral Laboratories Agency, are the two principal DEFRA programme funds, which enhance our relationships and executive agencies which work to combat animal diseases. influence with key countries around the world, and will seek I intend to merge these two agencies. This will allow us (resources permitting) to increase this funding in future years. to bring together services, expertise and scientific capability Maintain a substantial programme of scholarships to bring on animal health. It will improve our resilience in future decision-takers and opinion-formers to the UK, while delivering important services, including our animal disease professionalising our current arrangements and targeting emergency response capability and science requirements them on a smaller group of people. We will cut this year’s for animal health. In resource-constrained times, the programme by £10 million and seek (resources permitting) merger will enable the agencies to create more efficient to sustain a smaller and more strategic programme in future ways of working, reduce the cost and bureaucracy years. I believe this programme should also attract some needed to manage the interfaces between these agencies, further external funding, which will now be explored. DEFRA and the devolved administrations, and their Sustain in future years (resources permitting) the FCO’s programme spending in support of the overseas territories, customers. while making a cut of 10% (£630,000) in spending this The merger of the executive agencies will go ahead financial year. shortly, with as little disruption to staff and customers Sustain in future years (resources permitting) the FCO’s as possible. programme spending in support of counter-proliferation, A single chief executive will be appointed for the new while making a cut of 10% (£300,000) in spending this agency this summer, and will be tasked with working financial year. out how to achieve the full integration of the agencies, Sustain in future years (resources permitting) the FCO’s including structures and ways of working, by the autumn. programmes on human rights and democracy, reuniting europe, and in support of the Westminster Foundation For In the meantime, both agencies will continue to be led Democracy, while making cuts to these programmes this by their chief executives and senior teams. In implementing financial year of 10% each (cuts of £560,000; £380,000; and this change to our arm’s-length bodies, the Department £380,000 respectively). will work closely with the Responsibility and Cost Cut the FCO’s spending on its low-carbon high-growth Sharing Advisory Group, as well as devolved programme by around £3 million this financial year and administrations and other stakeholders. explore alternative sources of funding for the programme for future years. This does not mean the FCO is ending work on Following the principle that Government should do these issues: our diplomats will remain fully engaged in the only those things which only Government can do, we UK’s international efforts to promote a low-carbon high-growth are examining how parts of the DEFRA network’s economy. assets could be marketed or be run better through the Cut the FCO’s programme spending on drugs and crime by voluntary sector, while protecting key DEFRA outcomes. £l million this financial year, end FCO funding in future Further announcements will follow, against the principles years, and explore alternative sources of funding for this outlined above. programme. This does not mean the FCO is ending work on these issues: our diplomats will remain fully engaged in the UK’s international efforts to fight drugs and crime which threaten our shores. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Cut our public diplomacy programmes by £1.6 million this financial year, focusing on strategic communications to key overseas audiences, while seeking (resources permitting) to sustain this programme in future years. Foreign and Commonwealth Office: Programmes Make some adjustments to FCO programme spending on international institutions, cutting £250,000 this financial year, while seeking (resources permitting) to sustain essential support The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth to those institutions in future years. Affairs (Mr William Hague): The House is aware that I These decisions will deliver over £18 million of savings have been conducting a full review of the Foreign and this financial year out of total FCO programme spend Commonwealth Office’s spending on programmes. I refer of some £140 million. The money saved will help sustain to the reply given by the Under-Secretary of State for the UK’s front-line diplomatic work and our global Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend network of posts, and contribute to the FCO’s £55 million the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) in-year cuts. to the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) on 7 June 2010, Official Report, Column 24W. This is only a small part of the work I am leading to ensure that the FCO delivers the best possible service to My aim was threefold: to ensure that FCO programmes the UK taxpayer at the lowest possible cost, and contributes deliver the priorities of the new Government; to ensure to the Government’s goal of reducing the budget deficit. that they focus on those areas where the FCO itself can Where there is scope for further cuts, efficiencies and make the biggest difference and offer the best possible reforms to deliver better for Britain we will make them. value for money; and to establish where the FCO can make cuts as part of its contribution to the reduction in HOME DEPARTMENT public expenditure to which this Government are committed. Police Reform I have decided that we will: Sustain planned spending this financial year on our counter- terrorism and Afghan counter-narcotics programmes, which The Secretary of State for the Home Department contribute to some of the UK’s most important priorities, (Mrs Theresa May): I am today setting out some further and will seek (resources permitting) to maintain FCO programme details of the Government’s approach to police reform. funding on these issues in future years. Policing governance has become distorted and over- 39WS Written Ministerial Statements29 JUNE 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 40WS centralised in recent years and the Government are We want to establish a system of employment support committed to ensuring that accountability and transparency that treats people with the dignity they deserve. are firmly at the heart of policing. As announced in the coalition agreement we will The first step for reform must be the return of proper radically simplify the back-to- work system by ending operational responsibility to chief constables and their the complexity of the previous decade and replacing teams and that for this to work effectively there needs to current schemes with a new Work programme. be a redesign of the current performance landscape. The Work programme will provide a coherent package The police service needs more freedom from central of support for people out of work, regardless of the control—fewer centrally driven targets and less intervention barriers they face or the benefits they claim. and interference from Government. That is why I am announcing that we are abolishing the centrally imposed The Government will look to investors from the target on police forces to improve public confidence and private, public and voluntary sectors to provide this we will scrap the policing pledge. Police forces need to support. be accountable instead to their communities. This week we will be releasing an advert setting out To achieve greater accountability, the public need the parameters of a commercial framework and better information about their police and about local encouraging private, public and voluntary sector crime. This is why we will make sure that crime data are organisations to bid to be part of it. published at a level that allows the public to see what is Once in the framework organisations will compete to happening on their streets, enabling the public to hold supply employment support. the police and other local agencies to account for how they are dealing with problems in their area. We will The framework arrangement means we will be able to also require police forces to hold regular “beat meetings” contract for employment support in a faster, flexible to provide residents with the opportunity to put forward and more efficient way than the current system allows. their concerns and hold the police to account. It also means Government can be more responsive to In the future, the establishment of a directly elected economic conditions and local need, which will enable individual at force level, setting the force budget, agreeing us to let larger, longer contracts, encouraging greater the local strategic plan, playing a role in wider questions investment and creating the circumstances for a proper of community safety and appointing—and if necessary rate of return for investors and meaningful social return removing—the local chief constable, will strengthen for the taxpayer. local accountability for policing. We will publish further The Work programme will also provide help for the details on our reform of policing later in the summer, thousands on incapacity benefits who are able to work. which will assist our discussions with the public and our There are 2.6 million people claiming incapacity benefits. partners, and inform the Government’s preparations for the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill in the The Government are committed to providing autumn. unconditional support for very sick and disabled people within that group. TRANSPORT But there are people claiming incapacity benefits that Vehicle and Operator Services Agency can work, and want to work, with our help they will be able to. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport In the autumn, starting in Burnley and Aberdeen, we (Mike Penning): The Department for Transport has will ask incapacity benefit claimants to attend a work today issued a consultation document on proposals to capability assessment. The rest of the country will empower examiners from VOSA with powers to stop follow, with reviews taking place when the normal commercial vehicles for inspection throughout Great benefit review is due. Britain. At present their powers are restricted to England The work capability assessment is designed to measure and Wales. whether someone is able to work. It also allows us to The new powers will help them to ensure that commercial recognise those who need additional support and ensure vehicles and their drivers comply with road traffic law. they get unconditional help. Similar minor additions will be made to Northern Ireland legislation where no comparable powers already To this end, we will take forward recommendations exist in relation to the stopping powers for the Driver to treat people waiting for or between courses of and Vehicle Agency (DVA) staff. chemotherapy in the same way as those already I have placed copies of the document in the Libraries receiving it. of both Houses. We will also extend the criteria for people with severe disability due to mental health conditions, meaning WORK AND PENSIONS fewer very sick people will be asked to attend an assessment. The Work Programme We will also establish an independent review as required by the Welfare Reform Act 2007, a concession forced on The Minister of State, Department for Work and the previous Government jointly by the Liberal Democrats Pensions (Chris Grayling): Today the Government begin and Conservatives. the first stage of their reform to deliver a 21st century The coalition amendment established an independent welfare system. review, which Professor Malcolm Harrington has agreed The coalition Government are committed to fighting to lead, to scrutinise the assessment process. This will poverty, supporting the most vulnerable and helping ensure people are treated fairly and assessments are people break the cycle of benefit dependency that has transparent. The report will be completed by the end of blighted some communities. the year. 41WS Written Ministerial Statements29 JUNE 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 42WS

These reforms are not just about getting people who about transformational change in the benefits system, are able to work into a job. helping people leave benefits and work towards a better These reforms are the first steps towards tackling one quality of life for themselves and their families. of the key drivers of poverty and breaking the intergenerational cycle of worklessness and disadvantage. We have produced a guide to the framework and Today the coalition Government take a firm but fair copies are available in the Vote Office and the Printed hold of the welfare system. This approach will bring Paper Office.

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There has been significant infrastructure investment Written Answers to in and around the Olympic Park, including transport and utilities. Other economic benefits that have accrued Questions to London include: Of the 6,442 contracted work force on the Olympic Park (excluding the Village) at the end of March 2010, 3,457 were from Tuesday 29 June 2010 London, of which 2,185 were resident outside the five east London host boroughs (Greenwich, Newham, Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest). The Olympic Delivery Authority and its partners have a range of measures in place, including dedicated training CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT centres, to promote sustainable employment benefits from the building of the Olympic Park. Elgin Marbles Of the 1,349 companies that have won over £5 billion of work directly supplying the Olympic Delivery Authority (May 2010), 689 were registered in London, of which 493 were registered Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for outside the host boroughs and 20 in Lambeth. Many more Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport if he will consider business across London are winning work in the supply chains of the merits of (a) loaning and (b) giving back to the ODA contractors and LOCOG began in January its procurement Greece the Parthenon Marbles; and if he will discuss for everything it needs to stage the Games, so there will be many options for the future of the Parthenon Marbles with more opportunities for business in London across many sectors the Board of the British Museum. [4868] to get involved. 34,047 London companies, of which 27,418 come from outside Mr Vaizey: The Trustees of the British Museum are the five east London host boroughs (June 2010), were registered responsible for the stewardship of the national collection on CompeteFor, the electronic brokerage system giving companies access to Olympic-related opportunities and the support to compete and they do so independently of Government, in line for them. with the arm’s length principle. The Trustees have undertaken to consider, subject to questions of condition The Mayor of London is responsible for maximising and fitness to travel, any request for any part of the the impact of the Games across London and has been Museum collection to be borrowed and then returned. I working with a range of pan-London partners including have no plans to discuss the Parthenon Sculptures with his family of agencies to deliver a coherent legacy the Trustees of the British Museum. programme that ensures people living in London gain from the positive effects of the 2012 Olympic and Football: South Africa Paralympic Games.

Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Olympic Games 2012: North West Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport whether (a) he, (b) other Ministers and (c) officials from his Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Department (i) have attended and (ii) plan to attend Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the any FIFA World Cup 2010 games in South Africa. answer of 14 June 2010, Official Report, column 235W, [4278] on Olympic games 2012: North West, in which constituency each of the 85 games-inspired projects in Hugh Robertson: I attended the England v USA the north west which have been awarded the Inspire match and travelled economy class on both legs of the Mark is taking place. [4031] journey. No officials attended. The Secretary of State attended the England v Algeria match accompanied by Hugh Robertson: The Department does not hold the one official and also travelled economy class for both information at a constituency level, however, 69 of the journeys. 85 Inspire projects in the North West region, and their We met with various members of the FIFA family sub-regions, are listed as follows. during our visits to discuss England’s bid for the 2018 World Cup, one of the Government’s top priorities for Project name Sub region sport. Firefit UK Merseyside Olympic Games 2012: Lambeth On track: Clatterbridge Merseyside Get Inspired Merseyside Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Fun4U Cheshire Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) what Wigan—Whats your Game Greater Manchester assessment he has made of the legacy for the London S.P.LA.T—Sports Participation, Greater Manchester borough of Lambeth and its residents from the Leadership and Attendance Targets London 2012 Olympic Games; [4086] Knowsley’s Sporting Heroes Merseyside (2) what steps his Department has taken to ensure 50m Training Programme and Regional that London boroughs other than those hosting the Aquatic Youth Club London 2012 Olympics will obtain a legacy from the Handball programme Cheshire games. [4087] Something to Chew on Greater Manchester Festival of Sport Greater Manchester Hugh Robertson: The London borough of Lambeth, EATS Cheshire London as a whole, and the wider UK are benefitting Motive8 Greater Manchester from the opportunities created by the 2012 Olympic Passport to Pedalling Cumbria and Paralympic Games. 465W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 466W

Warrington borough council, South Lakeland Leisure, Project name Sub region Wigan council, Manchester city council, Salford city Active Sports Merseyside council, Halton borough council, Knowsley metropolitan Minibeast Triathlon Greater Manchester borough council, Preston city council, Liverpool city Marathon Walk Greater Manchester council, Blackpool council, Wirral council. The funding CADs Greater Manchester for the Free Swimming programme will end on 31 July go 4 it Cheshire 2010 as part of in-year spending savings. Golden Sports Merseyside Proud and Spirited Merseyside Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Rochdale refugee—Going for Greater Manchester Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the Gold answer of 14 June 2010, Official Report, column 245W, club and coach volunteer support Greater Manchester on Olympic Games 2012: North West, what the names Table Tennis 4U Merseyside are of (a) the 52 suppliers to the Olympic Delivery Tameside big dance Greater Manchester Authority (ODA) and (b) other contractors to the Haitons Sporting Excellence Merseyside ODA that are based in the North West region; and in programme which constituency each is based. [4032] sport unlimited—Cumbria Cumbria Active Arcade Cheshire Hugh Robertson: Details of the Olympic Delivery Inspire to Aim Higher Cheshire Authority’s suppliers are published in the business section Inspire BB Leagues Cheshire of the London 2012 website: Halton sports programme Merseyside http://www.london2012.com/business St Helen’s Dance Week Merseyside under the heading ODA Suppliers. There you will find Personal Best Regional suppliers listed by venue and sector. As well as those Merseyside disability Events Merseyside businesses that are directly supplying the ODA, many Motive8 Wirral Merseyside more are winning work in the supply chains of its Cumbria Ambassadors Cumbria contractors. As these are not public procurements a Wirral Swim Merseyside comprehensive list of these supply chain contractors is Fit4Fun Greater Manchester not available, but a number have been identified by the Sport Unlimited—Cheshire Cheshire ODA as part of its supply chain research published in VISPA Cheshire November last year on the London 2012 website. World Games Challenge Greater Manchester Sport Unlimited—Merseyside Merseyside Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Interfaith Games Greater Manchester Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the Tameside Volunteers Festival Greater Manchester answer of 14 June 2010, Official Report, column 245W, Be InVOLved Lancashire on Olympic Games 2012: North West, in which City as a Gym Greater Manchester constituency each of the 68 facilities in the North West DadaVisions Merseyside region that are featured in the official London 2012 Cultural Conversations Merseyside Pre-Games Training Camp Guide is located. [4033] AND Merseyside Welcoming the World Cumbria Hugh Robertson: The London Organising Committee Places of public resort Merseyside of the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (LOCOG) Neon attractors Regional produced the official London 2012 Pre-Games Training New cultural journeys Lancashire Camp Guide (’the guide’), which includes the 68 facilities Welcoming the Light Cumbria that met the criteria to be World-class training venues Sufi meets Zen Cumbria for Olympic and Paralympic sport in the North West. Zircus plus Cumbria The guide has been produced in an online form and is Abandon Normal Devices Lancashire accessible at: Woven Culture Regional http://trainingcamps.london2012.com Manchester Volunteer Sport Greater Manchester Bureau Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Goldfactor Lancashire Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the Blaze Lancashire answer of 14 June 2010, Official Report, column 245W, St Helens Club Conference Merseyside on Olympic Games 2012: North West, what Olympic Supporter to Reporter Greater Manchester facilities in the North West region are referred to in the Street Sports Cheshire memoranda of understanding with the 17 Oceania Girls Football Programme Greater Manchester National Olympic Committees, the National Olympic Mintfest International (Lakes Cumbria Committee of Thailand and Australia’s swimming Alive) team; and in which parliamentary constituency each is Into the Woods (Lakes Alive) Cumbria located. [4034] In addition, the following 16 local authorities in the North West have been awarded the Inspire mark for Hugh Robertson: To date, the agreements have been their delivery of Government’s Free Swimming programme: made with the North West region. The specific facilities Sefton MBC, Rochdale metropolitan borough council, that will be used will therefore be confirmed in due Oldham metropolitan borough council, Cheshire East course. However, I am aware that the Australian swimming borough council, Cheshire West and Chester council, team will be hosted by the Manchester Aquatics Centre. 467W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 468W

Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Hugh Robertson: As part of the north-west region, Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the Wigan stands to gain from the wide range of opportunities answer of 14 June 2010, Official Report, column 245W, created by the 2012 Games. I therefore refer the hon. on Olympic Games 2012: North West, what Olympics Member to the answer I gave her on 14 June 2010, cultural legacy projects are planned for the North West Official Report, column 245W. region. [4035] In addition, I can confirm that at least two companies in Wigan have been awarded contracts in the London Hugh Robertson: The Cultural Olympiad comprises 2012 supply chain. cultural events in the run-up to the London 2012 Games that aim to leave a cultural legacy. The Cultural Olympiad Details of the Olympic Delivery Authority’s (ODA) includes Major National Projects, annual Open Weekends suppliers are published in the business section of the and individual projects that have been awarded the London 2012 website under the heading ODA Suppliers: Inspire Mark. http://www.london2012.com/business Some of the Cultural Olympiad Major National Businesses that win work in the supply chains of Projects include a regional component. “Artists Taking ODA’s contractors, such as the two companies in Wigan, the Lead” features cutting edge art works in each region. are not public procurements and therefore a comprehensive In the North West this work is Projected Column by list of these supply chain contractors is not available. Anthony McCall which will be located in Morpeth However a number have been identified by the ODA as Dock, Birkenhead. “Stories of the World” is a UK wide part of its supply chain research which was published in series of exhibitions featuring collections reinterpreted November last year on the London 2012 website. by young people, local communities, historians, artists Sports: Facilities and other fresh voices. In the North West the exhibition is Global Threads, based around Lancashire’s heritage of textiles and cotton mills. Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what mechanisms Open Weekend 2010 will take place over 23-25 July. are in place to prevent the sale or redevelopment of So far, 36 cultural and sports events in the North West community sports facilities other than playing fields. have been registered. [4002] 13 cultural projects in the North West have been awarded the Inspire Mark. Three examples are “Lakes Hugh Robertson: The sale of community sports facilities Alive”, a programme of street art events across the are primarily matters for local authorities. Sales by local Lake District and Cumbria; “Places of Public resort”, authorities would be based on proposals by individual an interactive heritage project for the Liverpool BBC local authorities as central government does not determine Live site; and “Abandon Normal Devices”, a brand what assets they may wish to sell. new arts festival for the North West alternating annually Any disposal of an asset (land or building) should be between Liverpool and Manchester. based on a local, robust needs assessment. In the case of As elsewhere in the UK, Cultural Olympiad events a built sports facility, local authorities should only will bring communities in the North West together, release assets where there is no proven need—a proportion allowing local people to access activities they may never of any revenue saving or capital receipt should be have experienced before leading to a broader interest reinvested back into community sports facilities in order and participation in cultural pursuits that will extend to meet customer needs. beyond 2012. Olympic Games 2012: Triathlon Homes NORTHERN IRELAND Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Official Cars Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many of the affordable homes in the Olympic Village development owned by Triathlon Homes will be made available as Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for social rented homes for people on local housing Northern Ireland what his policy is on the use by waiting lists in (a) Tower Hamlets and (b) other host Ministers in his Department of cars allocated from (a) boroughs. [4148] his Department’s pool and (b) the Government car pool which are manufactured in the UK; whether Hugh Robertson [holding answer 28 June 2010]: The Ministers in his Department are entitled to request the Triathlon agreement entered into in 2009 includes 1,379 use of a car manufactured in the UK; and if he will affordable homes in the Olympic Village. The lettings make a statement. [2421] policy is currently being developed by Triathlon Homes, in full consultation with the five host boroughs, the Mr Paterson: The Northern Ireland Office (NIO) Greater London Authority and the London Mayor’s uses cars provided by the Government Car and Dispatch housing strategy. Agency as necessary for official ministerial business under guidelines provided by the Cabinet Office. Ministers Olympic Games 2012: Wigan in the Department are not involved in decisions relating to the origin of manufacture. This is exactly the same Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for arrangement as existed under the previous Administration. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what he expects the legacy of the 2012 Olympics will be for the Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Metropolitan borough of Wigan; and if he will make a Northern Ireland how many (a) civil servants and (b) statement. [4088] special advisers in his Department are entitled to the 469W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 470W use of (i) a car with a dedicated driver, (ii) a car from Sir Stuart Bell: Overall costs of select committees in the Government car pool and (iii) a taxi ordered financial year 2009-10 are given in the following table. through a departmental account. [3198] Details of select committee staff costs and a breakdown of costs by committee for financial year 2009-10 will be Mr Paterson: No civil servant or special adviser in the placed in the Library. The information will also be Northern Ireland Office (NIO) is entitled to a car with a published shortly in the Sessional Return for 2009-10 dedicated driver. Civil servants and special advisers use (HC 1). public transport where possible but may use a car from Select committee costs in FY2009-10 the Government Car and Dispatch Agency or a pre-booked Costs: £ taxi when it is necessary to help meet a departmental business need. Staffing 10,115,595 Printing 2,596,004 Devolution Overseas travel 1,057,820 UK travel 150,228 Ms Ritchie: To ask the Secretary of State for Specialist advisers 322,014 Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with the Research, specialist publications 80,933 First and Deputy First Minister for Northern Ireland Transcription of evidence 511,879 on the devolution of further powers to Northern Witnesses’ expenses 27,186 Ireland; and if he will make a statement. [4194] Entertainment and other minor 19,942 expenses Mr Paterson: As Secretary of State I have had no Total 14,881,601 discussions with the First and deputy First Minister for Northern Ireland on the devolution of further powers to the Northern Ireland Assembly. SCOTLAND Irish Language: Finance Electoral Register

Ms Ritchie: To ask the Secretary of State for Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland by what mechanisms the £8 million Scotland what recent discussions he has had with the allocated the development of the Irish language after Electoral Commission on its report on unregistered the Hillsborough Agreement of 4 February 2010 will voters in Scotland. [4452] be disbursed; and what criteria will be used to determine which groups receive assistance from that Michael Moore: I plan to meet the Electoral Commission fund. [4275] soon and I expect to discuss a range of matters with them, including electoral registration. Mr Paterson: The previous Government provided Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for £8 million to a charitable trust—the Irish Language Scotland what steps his Department plans to take to Investment Fund—which will make grants to capital reduce the number of unregistered voters in Scotland projects in support of Irish language development in in response to the recent report by the Electoral communities in line with their business plan. Commission; and what discussions he plans to hold Public Expenditure with electoral registration officers in Scotland on the matter. [4453] Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Michael Moore: The Electoral Commission has met Ireland if he will discuss with the Chancellor of the with all electoral registration officers in Scotland to Exchequer steps to reduce the difference in the per discuss the findings of its recent report and to seek capita level of public expenditure between Northern improvements in Scotland’s registration levels. As a Ireland and the rest of the UK. [4261] first step, I will be seeking an update on progress on improvements when I meet with the Electoral Commission Mr Paterson: Most public expenditure in Northern soon. Ireland is the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive. The Coalition’s programme for government Fossil Fuel Levy makes clear that the priority must be to reduce the deficit and therefore any change to the devolution funding Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for system must await the stabilisation of the public finances. Scotland what recent discussions he has had with the (a) Chancellor of the Exchequer and (b) Chief Secretary to the Treasury on the fossil fuel levy; and what his plans are for the release to Scotland of HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION funding allocated under the scheme. [4456] House of Commons Staff: Costs Michael Moore: I have had numerous discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Chief Mr Andrew Turner: To ask the hon. Member for Secretary to the Treasury. The fossil fuel levy issue was Middlesbrough, answering for the House of Commons raised at the Joint Ministerial Committee Plenary meeting Commission how much the House of Commons of 8 June 2010. In addition, the Budget of 22 June Service has spent on (a) staff costs and (b) other costs announced that the Government will review the control in respect of each select committee in the most recent and use of accumulated and future revenues from the year for which figures are available. [4583] fossil fuel levy in Scotland. 471W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 472W

Future Jobs Fund TRANSPORT Crossrail Line Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland whether Ministers in his Department (a) Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport have had recent discussions and (b) plan to have when he expects construction work on the Crossrail discussions with representatives of (i) the Scottish project to be completed. [4165] Council for Voluntary Organisations and (ii) Scottish local authorities on the ending of the Future Jobs Mrs Villiers: The planned date for commencement of Fund. [4457] Crossrail operations remains 2017.

Michael Moore: I met the chief executive and the Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for deputy chief executive of the Scottish Council for Voluntary Transport what assessment he has made of the merits Organisations on 21 June and discussed the Future Jobs of proposals to reduce the planned length of Crossrail Fund, among other things. I have no immediate plans trains. [4051] to discuss the Future Jobs Fund with representatives of Scottish local authorities. I had an introductory telephone Mrs Villiers: In order to ensure that the project offers meeting with Councillor Pat Watters, president of the value for money and remains affordable, Crossrail Ltd Confederation of Scottish Local Authorities on 22 June. are considering a number of value management and The Future Jobs Fund was not raised at that meeting. engineering options as they finalise designs for the scheme. This work has not yet been completed and no formal decisions have been sought from the Crossrail Video Games Sponsors on the matter of the planned length of trains. Departmental Manpower Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) what recent discussions he has had with Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for representatives of the computer games industry in Transport how many (a) special advisers and (b) press Scotland on the prospects for that industry; [4454] officers are employed by his Department; and at what (2) what recent discussions he has had with the Civil Service pay grade in each such case. [1275] Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport on the future of the computer games industry in Norman Baker: The information requested is as follows: Scotland. [4455] (a) A list of special adviser appointments was published by the Prime Minister on 10 June 2010, Official Report, Michael Moore: I have had none. However, as the columns 33-34WS. hon. Member will know, the computer games industry (b) The number of full-time equivalent staff (FTE) is very important to Scotland’s economy and I look employed on press officer activities on the 1 April 2010 forward to meeting representatives of the sector when by the Department is set out by grade in the following an appropriate opportunity arises. table.

Staff (FTE) employed on press officer activities on 1 April 2010 SCSPB1 Grade1 (equivalent)2 PB2 (AO) PB3 (EO) PB4 (HEO) PB5 (SEO) PB6 (Grd7) PB7 (Grd6) (Grd5)

DFT(C) 0064211 DSA 0 2 1 0.5 0 0 0 DVLA1211000 GCDA0000000 HA00104100 MCA0010100 VCA0000000 VOSA0200000 1 Grade pay bands of the central Department. 2 Civil service grade equivalent.

The Highways Agency (HA) has seven regional press public purse of changes to the previously announced officers to support its role in operating, maintaining timescale for the East Coast rail franchise competition. and improving the strategic road network in each region. [4175] These press officers are employed primarily to keep the public informed of roadworks, incidents and events Mrs Villiers [holding answer 24 June 2010]: Changes which might affect their journeys. to the timescale for the Inter City East Coast franchise competition are still under consideration and a prior information notice will be issued in due course. The East Coast Railway Line: Franchises estimated cost to the public purse would depend on the final timescale for the competition, and reflect the extent to which the premium that would be paid by a private Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for sector train operator might exceed that agreed with the Transport what estimate he has made of the cost to the current East Coast operator. 473W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 474W

Railways: Franchises Railways: Passengers

Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) what estimate he has made of the total Transport what estimate he has made of the change in cost to the public purse of suspending the (a) Essex the number of passengers that will be carried on each Thameside and (b) Greater Anglia rail franchise rail franchise over the next (a) five, (b) 10, (c) 15 and competition; [4176] (d) 20 years. [4043] (2) what estimate he has made of the cost to the public purse from (a) loss of or delay to premium Mrs Villiers: No estimate has been made of the payments and (b) compensation payments to bidding change in the number of passengers that will be carried companies arising from suspension of the competition on each rail franchise over these periods. for (i) the Essex Thameside and (ii) Greater Anglia rail franchise. [4184] Road Traffic

Mrs Villiers [holding answer 24 June 2010]: The two Mr Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for franchise extensions will have a theoretical opportunity Transport what the percentage change in traffic levels cost caused by foregoing the higher premium/lower (a) on English roads and (b) on roads in each county subsidy expected if the franchises were re-competed within England was in each year since 1997, taking instead of extended. This is difficult to quantify, because 1997 levels as the baseline. [4428] assumptions need to be made about the likely prices from new bidders versus the cost of extending with Mike Penning: Tables showing percentage changes in incumbents. The opportunity cost arising from the delay traffic volumes for all motor vehicles on all roads for to replacing franchises was estimated to be £6 million (a) English roads and (b) each local authority in for Essex Tameside and £18 million for Greater Anglia. England have been placed in the Libraries of the House. However, we believe that including the two franchises in the reformed system, on which we will be consulting The figures provided in the tables are for the period shortly, will yield benefits for passengers and facilitate 1997-2009. Table 1 shows estimated traffic for all investment in the railways which will outweigh these motor vehicles, table 2 shows the percentage change costs. from 1997 and table 3 shows year on year percentage changes. In accordance with our accreditation process as advised to bidders the Department does not expect to have Road traffic estimates are produced by using a consistent cause to incur compensation. national methodology which is mainly designed to deliver national level estimates. Traffic figures at local authority Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for level are less robust than the regional and national Transport whether the new franchise agreements for totals and are not classed as national statistics. Some the Eastern Region Railway will require the operator to discontinuities exist in the data between various years invest in fixed assets, with particular reference to Great for certain local authorities. Yarmouth railway station. [4316] Transport: Renewable Energy Mrs Villiers: We have announced a consultation exercise on future policy on rail franchising. Following that it is Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for planned to restart the competition for the Greater Anglia Transport whether his Department has retained the competition later this year. Bidders are likely to be target of 10% of transport energy coming from encouraged to develop proposals that deliver better renewable sources by 2020. [4052] trains, stations and services. Assessing the best way to encourage private sector investment in station improvement Norman Baker: The Government’s Coalition agreement will form an important part of the upcoming rail franchise contained a commitment to consultation. “seek to increase the target for energy from renewable sources, subject to the advice of the Climate Change Committee”. Railways: Overcrowding Currently, we are working towards transposing the EU renewable energy directive (RED), which requires Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for member states to source 10% transport energy from Transport what information his Department holds on renewables by 2020. This target was agreed in 2009 and the extent of overcrowding on the 20 most crowded rail is part of a wider requirement to source 15% of overall services. [3909] energy from renewables by 2020. Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport holds Options for achieving our renewable energy in transport passenger count data for rail services arriving into targets are being considered, and a formal consultation London and major regional cities during the peak will take place in due course. commuter periods in autumn 2009. A list of the most crowded rail services is not routinely produced by the Transport: Sustainable Development Department. Crowding statistics based on the autumn 2009 passenger Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for count data will be published at an aggregated level in Transport what steps he plans to take to build a the Office of Rail Regulation’s National Rail Trends modern and sustainable transport system in (a) West Yearbook in July 2010. Sussex and (b) Mid Sussex. [4058] 475W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 476W

Norman Baker [holding answer 24 June 2010]: The Armed Forces: Rescue Services Department for Transport is focused on building a modern and sustainable transport system. This will contribute to future economic growth of all parts of Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for England including in West Sussex and Mid Sussex. Defence how many trained Royal Air Force search and rescue pilots have served on operations (a) in Following the Spending Review we will be reviewing Afghanistan and (b) elsewhere overseas in the last five priorities for the transport network, including those in years. [3925] West Sussex and Mid Sussex. Travel: Greater London Nick Harvey: A total of 21 trained RAF Search and Rescue pilots have served in Afghanistan during the last Mr Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for five years. Information on the total number of Search Transport what his Department’s most recent estimate and Rescue pilots who have served overseas is not held is of average city centre to city centre journey times by centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate (a) road and (b) rail between London and (i) cost. The Search and Rescue Force operates a service in Manchester, (ii) Sheffield and (iii) Leeds. [4430] the UK and Falkland Islands only; those serving in Afghanistan and other overseas locations have flown in Mike Penning: The information requested is as follows: a non Search and Rescue role. Journeys by Road During the 12 month period from September 2008 to Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for August 2009, the estimated average daytime journey Defence what estimate he has made of the incremental times between London city centre and Manchester, cost of retraining an armed forces helicopter pilot for a Sheffield and Leeds city centres were as follows: search and rescue role. [3926]

Destination from London (Trafalgar Average journey time (hours: Square) minutes) Nick Harvey: To retrain an armed forces helicopter pilot for a search and rescue role requires completion of Manchester (Royal Exchange) 4:15 two courses: the Search and Rescue Training Unit ab-initio Sheffield (Town Hall) 3:33 pilot course; and the Search and Rescue Operational Leeds (Shopping Plaza) 4:02 Conversion Unit. The total cost of these courses is just over £1 million. Journeys by Rail Information on actual journey times on the railway Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for network is not held by the Department. However, the Defence what the running costs, excluding asset most recent typical weekday advertised journey times depreciation, of the Royal Air Force search and rescue from London to Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds are as service were in the last 12 months for which figures are follows: available. [3927]

Typical weekday advertised Nick Harvey: The total costs, excluding asset depreciation, Journey journey time (hours: minutes) of the Air Rescue Coordination Centre, the RAF Sea London Euston—Manchester 2:09 King Search and Rescue force and the RAF mountain Piccadilly rescue service for the financial year 2009-10 was London St Pancras—Sheffield 2:09 £62.26 million. Station In addition, 84 Squadron RAF provides Search and It should be noted that the road and rail journey Rescue services in Cyprus using contractor owned times are not directly comparable. The average road helicopters. The contract cost for financial year 2009-10 journey times include delayed journeys, whereas the rail was £3.6 million. journey times provided are advertised journey times and therefore do not account for delayed journeys. Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Additionally, rail journey times do not incorporate Defence what mechanisms there are to recover from travel time between the city centre and the railway (a) other Departments, (b) local authorities, (c) station. insurance companies and (d) individuals the cost of calling out Royal Air Force search and rescue helicopters; and how much has been recovered in such DEFENCE payments in the last five years. [3928]

Armed Forces: Casualties Nick Harvey: No charges are made for responding to incidents involving imminent danger to human life. Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence This is the case for the majority of Search and Rescue what plans he has for the repatriation of bodies of activity. Charges are raised for other occasions where soldiers killed in action after the closure of RAF RAF SAR units provide assistance to Government Lyneham. [3492] Departments and local health trusts. No charges are Nick Harvey: A study is under way to determine the raised against individuals or insurance companies. most suitable location for repatriations once flying The amount recovered from other Government operations cease at RAF Lyneham in September 2011. Departments in respect of RAF SAR call-outs each of A final decision will be made later this year. the last five years is: 477W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 478W

Royal Air Force search and rescue helicopters (A) in Financial year £ million the UK, (B) from UK waters and (C) elsewhere in each 2005-06 0.977 of the last five years. [3929] 2006-07 1.090 2007-08 0.818 Nick Harvey: Not all of the information is held in the 2008-09 1.213 format requested. Records are only held for combined 2009-10 0.985 numbers of people rescued and bodies recovered and the term evacuation is not used by the RAF in this context. Additionally, the locations of rescue operations Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for are recorded by land, coast and maritime categories. Defence how many (a) civilians and (b) members of The available information is provided in the following the armed forces were (i) rescued and (ii) evacuated by tables:

Civilian—Rescue/Recovery Military—Rescue/Recovery Land Coast Maritime Total Land Coast Maritime Total

UK SAR Operations 2005-09 2005 416 250 125 791 18 3 4 25 2006 390 272 184 846 10 4 2 16 2007 692 226 188 1106 16 2 8 26 2008 577 169 188 934 17 0 4 21 2009 708 210 99 1017 11 0 3 14

Overseas SAR Operations 2005-09 2005 0033170320 2006 11 31 4 46 8 0 3 11 2007 5 0 10 15 16 0 2 18 2008 8 1 8 17 26 1 2 29 2009 12 3 12 27 18 0 3 21

Chiefs of Staff Mr Love: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many members of the armed forces are employed Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence in the household of (a) the Vice-Chief of the Defence what the cost to the public purse was of Staff, (b) the First Sea Lord and (c) the Chief of the accommodation for the (a) Chief of the Defence Staff Air Staff. [1061] and (b) Chief of the General Staff in the last 12 months. [1045] Mr Robathan: Service staff who are retained in official service residences contribute to upholding the traditions Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for and military ethos of the armed forces. Their duties are Defence what the cost to the public purse was of varied and include supervision of staff, receiving of accommodation for the Chief of the Air Staff in the guests, as well as dining room support. The following last 12 months. [1050] table lists the number of armed forces personnel employed in the official service residences of the requested group: Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the cost to the public purse was of Number accommodation for the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff in the last 12 months. [1047] Chief of the Defence Staff 3 Vice Chief of the Defence of Staff 1 Mr Robathan: An essential part of the role of the The First Sea Lord 4 ‘Chiefs’ requires them to host guests in support of The Chief of the Air Staff 2 departmental and wider Government objectives. As a consequence, the posts are entitled to occupy Official Expenditure relating to official service residences is Service Residences. The following table shows the amount kept under close scrutiny. When it is practical to do so, of rent paid in 2008-09, the latest year for which figures staff from other residences are employed in support of are available. a function to maximise use of resources.

Post Rent (£) Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what his most recent estimate is of the cost to Chief of the Defence Staff 19,995 the public purse of staffing the outer office of the (a) Vice Chief of the Defence Staff 19,995 chief of the general staff, (b) chief of the air staff, (c) Chief of the General Staff 108,408 First Sea Lord, (d) chief of the Defence staff and (e) Chief of the Air Staff 49,140 vice-chief of the Defence staff. [1058] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Robathan: An estimate of the costs to the public for Defence how many members of the armed forces purse of staffing the outer offices was conducted in the are employed in the household of the Chief of the autumn of 2009 and was based on a generic salary rate Defence Staff. [1048] of the staff at that time. 479W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 480W

The salary costs for the private office of the chief of Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Defence staff are approximately £500,000 per annum. (1) how many domestic helicopter flights were taken by The vice-chief of the defence staff has a shared the First Sea Lord in the last 12 months; [2034] private office with the 2nd Permanent Under Secretary. (2) how many domestic helicopter flights were taken The combined salary costs for their joint private office by the Chief of the Air Staff in the last 12 months; staff are approximately £537,000 per annum. [2053] The private offices of the 1st Sea Lord, the chief of (3) how many domestic helicopter flights were taken the general staff and chief of the air staff are structured by the Chief of the General Staff in the last 12 months; in a similar way. The salary costs for each of the private [2054] offices for this group are approximately £416,000 per (4) how many domestic helicopter flights were taken annum. by the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff in the last 12 months. [2055] Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many military personnel are employed in Sandra Osborne: To ask the Secretary of State for the outer office of the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff. Defence how many domestic helicopter flights were [1060] taken by the Chief of the Defence Staff in the last 12 months. [1902] Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many military personnel are employed in Dr Fox: The following table lists the number of the outer office of the Chief of the General Staff. domestic helicopter flights taken by this group during [1049] the period 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010.

Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Number how many military personnel are employed in the outer Chief of the Defence Staff 35 (a) (b) office of the First Sea Lord and Chief of the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff 22 Air Staff. [1039] 1st Sea Lord 14 Chief of the General Staff 146 Mr Robathan: In order to minimise the staff overhead Chief of the Air Staff 41 associated with each role, where possible, staff have joint responsibilities and are interchangeable. The vice-chief Visiting UK forces is an essential part of the role of of defence staff shares a Private Office with the 2nd the professional heads of the services. The use of helicopters Permanent Under-Secretary. maximises the number of visits that can be made. The following table lists the numbers of military Helicopter flights also provide valuable training personnel employed in the Private Offices of the requested opportunities for aircrew. group: Military personnel Defence: Procurement Private Office Number Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for Vice Chief of the Defence Staff 6 Defence how much was spent on re-evaluating existing 1st Sea Lord 6 defence procurement programmes by staff at Defence Chief of the General Staff 6 Equipment and Support in the latest year for which Chief of the Air Staff 6 information is available; and if he will make a statement. [4349]

Albert Owen: To ask the Secretary of State for Peter Luff: Programmes handled by Defence Equipment Defence what the cost to the public purse was of the and Support are regularly reviewed against their entertainment budget of the chief of the Defence staff performance, time and cost targets. In addition, as part in each of the last three years. [1356] of the review of public spending commitments made by the last Government between 1 January 2010 and the Mr Robathan: Official entertainment offered by the General Election, a number of projects have been re-assessed chief of the Defence staff is used to give the public a to ensure that they offer good value for money and are better understanding of the armed forces, to enhance consistent with the Government’s priorities. This was professional contacts within the UK and abroad, and to conducted as part of normal business and costs are not promote the UK Government’s wider policy interests. separately identifiable. Due consideration is given, at all times, to whether As part of the Strategic Defence and Security Review, that official entertainment is necessary, appropriate, defence programmes will continue to be reviewed. cost-effective and an admissible charge against the defence budget. Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for The total cost of entertainment of the chief of defence Defence (1) whether he plans to streamline the process staff in each of the last three years was: for defence procurement overseen by Defence Equipment and Support; [4350] £ (2) what changes he plans to the procedures 2007-08 4,400 governing defence procurement projects; and what 2008-09 3,600 assessment he has made of the likely effect of such changes on Defence Equipment and Support at Abbey 2009-10 3,200 Wood. [4706] 481W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 482W

Peter Luff: The Department has an ongoing acquisition Dr Fox: I refer the hon. Members to the written reform agenda. As well as ensuring the Strategic Defence statement given by the Prime Minister on 10 June 2010, and Security Review (SDSR) establishes an affordable Official Report, columns 33-34WS. equipment and support programme, the reforms are designed to ensure it remains strategically-aligned, affordable Departmental Official Residences and achievable, including by improving internal skills, management and decision-making. The acquisition reform Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence programme also includes issues such as refreshing Ministry whether any domestic properties in the gift of the of Defence’s overall relationship with industry, and Government have been allocated to the use of ensuring that acquisition supports other Defence priorities Ministers in his Department. [1788] such as safety and sustainable development. Dr Fox: No domestic properties in the gift of the We will review acquisition reform further after the Government have been allocated to the use of Ministers SDSR completes. in the Department. Departmental Manpower Departmental Public Expenditure

Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate he has made of the number of Defence how much his Department spent on (a) people employed in jobs dependent on expenditure by equipment, (b) non-equipment expenditure, (c) his Department in (a) England, (b) Wales, (c) service personnel and (d) civil personnel in (i) Northern Ireland and (d) Scotland in (i) 2008-09 and England, (ii) Wales, (iii) Northern Ireland, (iv) (ii) 2009-10. [4682] Scotland and (v) overseas in (A) 2008-09 and (B) 2009-10. [4681] Nick Harvey: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) no longer compiles estimates of sub-UK employment relating Nick Harvey: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) no to equipment and non equipment in UK industry and longer compiles estimates of expenditure at the sub-UK commerce as they do not directly support policy making areas described in (i) to (iv) on equipment, non-equipment, or operations. The last estimates for 2007-08 were published or personnel costs as they do not directly support policy in “UK Defence Statistics” in September 2009. As a making or operations. The last estimates relate to 2007-08. result, the complex data analysis required to produce As a result, the complex data analysis required to the underlying regional expenditure data is no longer produce the underlying sub-UK expenditure data is no performed. A comparable time series beyond 2007-08 longer performed. A comparable time series beyond could be provided only at disproportionate cost. 2007-08 could be provided only at disproportionate The Department continues to publish figures relating cost. to MOD staff directly employed at MOD establishments Numbers of MOD personnel at sub UK level are and bases located across the United Kingdom. The available but the associated expenditure is no longer latest available figures for 2008 and 2009 are presented assembled at this level. The personnel numbers are in the following table: provided in an answer I have given you today. In relation to (v), estimates for 2008-09 are not releasable UK regular forces strength1, 4 Civilian strength2, 3, 4 until the publication of “UK Defence Statistics” in late April 2008 April 2009 April 2008 April 2009 September 2010. United 158,660 162,710 72,900 70,620 The MOD continues to report spend on procurement Kingdom in the “UK Defence Statistics” Of which: http://www.dasa.mod.uk/modintranet/UKDS/UKDS2009/ England 140,310 143,580 62,590 60,860 ukds.html Wales 2,640 2,720 2,170 2,010 This annual report presents the MOD procurement of Northern 3,740 4,390 2,150 1,890 goods and services in the UK broken out by industry Ireland sector and estimates of aggregate MOD equipment Scotland 11,970 12,020 5,990 5,860 expenditure. 1 UK regular forces include all trained and untrained personnel and exclude Gurkhas, full-time reserve service personnel and mobilised reservists. European Defence Agency 2 Civilian personnel includes Trading Fund staff and exclude RFAs and LECs. 3 Measured as full-time equivalent (FTE). FTE is a measure of the size of the work force that takes account of the fact that some people work part-time. Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for 4 Numbers are rounded to the nearest 10. Numbers ending in ″5″ have been rounded to the nearest multiple of 20 to prevent systematic bias. Defence what recent discussions he has had with the chief executive of the European Defence Agency on Departmental Ministerial Advisers the UK’s relationship with the Agency; and if he will make a statement. [4006] Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many special advisers (a) he and (b) Mr Gerald Howarth [holding answer 24 June 2010]: each named Minister in his Department (i) has The Secretary of State for Defence has not yet had any appointed to date and (ii) plans to appoint. [306] discussions with the chief executive of the European Defence Agency (EDA). The Ministry of Defence will Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for continue to participate in the EDA but, as part of the Defence how many (a) political appointments and (b) work on the Strategic Defence and Security Review, is other personal appointments he has made since his reviewing all aspects of defence engagement with appointment; and at what estimated annual cost to the international institutions, including the EDA, to ensure public purse. [376] that it matches the UK’s priorities and interests. 483W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 484W

Navy: Officers PRIME MINISTER Afghanistan Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many officers at each rank of One Star Mr Spellar: To ask the Prime Minister how many and above there are in the Royal Navy. [3568] journalists travelled with him on his recent flight to Afghanistan. [4191] Mr Robathan [holding answer 23 June 2010]: As at 1 April 2010, the number of officers of one star rank The Prime Minister: In line with established practice, and above in the Naval Service, including the Royal all the main news organisations are invited to accompany Marines, was: me on official overseas visits as and when appropriate. Number

Commodore/Brigadier 84 Rear Admiral/Major General 29 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Vice Admiral/Lieutenant General 9 Agriculture: Subsidies Admiral/General 2 Red Arrows Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many (a) overpayments and (b) underpayments were made by Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for the Rural Payments Agency in each of the last five Defence what forward contractual obligations for years. [425] future public appearances the Red Arrows have undertaken; and what financial penalties are liable to Mr Paice [holding answer 2 June 2010]: Overpayments be incurred for breach of each such contract. [3923] are defined as cases where farmers received more than their entitlement—identified through post payment Nick Harvey: The Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team corrections, inspections or queries. Underpayments are known as the Red Arrows, does not enter into a contractual defined as all instances where farmers did not receive obligation to display at any event. Therefore, no financial their full, finally calculated entitlement prior to the penalties can be incurred for non-appearance at events. 30 June closure of the payment window for each scheme year. Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Individual claimants may have overpayments in some Defence what the running costs, excluding asset years and underpayments in others, so an overall position depreciation, of the Red Arrows were in the last is calculated. As at 4 June 2010 there were 3,596 farmers 12 months for which figures are available; and how with an overpayment across 2005 to 2009 scheme years much the Royal Air Force received in (a) sponsorship, (England only) that are being confirmed for recovery. (b) appearance fees and (c) other payments in respect Overpayments below £250 per scheme year are de minimis. of the Red Arrows in that period. [3924] All outstanding underpayments are released on Nick Harvey: Officials are collating the information confirmation as a matter of policy and are not subject requested. I will write to the hon. Member when this to a de minimis threshold. As at 4 June 2010 there were work is complete and place a copy of the letter in the 6,159 farmers identified as being in an underpayment Library of the House. position across 2005 to 2009 scheme years (England only), with 4,013 less than £1,000. Written Questions: Government Responses Overpayments and underpayments made by the Rural Payments Agency in each of the last five years (England Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for only) were: Defence when he plans to answer question 376, on departmental public appointments, tabled on 27 May Number of 2010. [3796] Scheme year Overpayments Underpayments farmers 2005 18,901 49,708 68,609 Dr Fox: I replied to the hon. Member today. 2006 11,400 29,481 40,881 2007 7,596 10,741 18,337 2008 3,211 6,456 9,667 WOMEN AND EQUALITIES 20091 405 14 419 1 The 2009 scheme year payment window closes on 30 June; therefore this is a Trade Unions preliminary figure. Food: EU Trade Mr Anderson: To ask the Minister for Women and Equality what plans the Government Equalities Office Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for has to consult trade unions concerning deficit Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether the reduction plans. [616] Food Standards Agency has made representations to the European Commission to upgrade its TRACES Lynne Featherstone: The Government Equalities Office import and export certification database to include (GEO) has already informed, in writing, the trade union data on foodstuffs not of animal origin. [4119] representatives within the GEO about possible deficit reductions. Anne Milton: I have been asked to reply. 485W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 486W

We have been advised by the Food Standards Agency Mr Gibb [holding answers 16 and 28 June 2010]: In that representations have not been made to the European the context of the budget deficit, the Government are Commission to include foodstuffs not of animal origin reviewing all expenditure. The Department has not consignments on the Trade Control and Expert System taken any decision on the Building Schools for the (TRACES) database. The current issue relating to the Future programme. import of food of non-animal origin is the application of official controls to certain high risk products from Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for certain third countries, for the purpose of public health Education what plans he has for the Building Schools protection. The list of countries and products requiring for the Future programme in Tamworth; and if he will control is reviewed by the Commission quarterly. Where make a statement. [2874] any food of non-animal origin, presents a major public health issue, then the Rapid Alert System for Food and Mr Gibb: In the context of the budget deficit, the Feed (RASFF) is used by member states. For other Government are reviewing all expenditure. The Department imported products not of animal origin, where routine has not taken any decision on the Building Schools for official controls detect any problems, these will be reported the Future programme. to the Commission. Food exported from the United Kingdom should meet the requirements of European Building Schools for the Future Programme: Coventry food law. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Water Charges: VAT for Education what representations he has received on the Building Schools for the Future programme from Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for (a) Coventry city council, (b) bodies and charities in Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate Coventry and (c) residents of Coventry. [3850] has been made of the effect of the proposed increase in value added tax on the water bills of an average earning Mr Gibb [holding answer 23 June 2010]: In the household in (a) England, (b) the North East and (c) context of the budget deficit, the Government are reviewing Newcastle Central constituency. [4820] all expenditure. The Department has not taken any Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. decision on the Building Schools for the Future programme. The supply of water to domestic properties is VAT Childline: Finance zero-rated, and there will therefore be no impact as a result of the recently announced rise in the standard rate of VAT. Meg Munn: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what his plans are for future funding of Childline. [2440]

EDUCATION Tim Loughton: All Government spend will be reviewed as part of the Spending Review, announced by the Academies: Dudley Chancellor on 8 June 2010. Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Children in Care: Cheshire Education what recent discussions he has had with Dudley metropolitan borough council on participation Mr Timpson: To ask the Secretary of State for in the academies programme; and if he will make a Education how many children were in care in the statement. [2384] former Cheshire county council area in each of the last Mr Gibb: The Secretary of State has not held any five years. [3540] recent discussions with Dudley metropolitan borough council about the academies programme. Tim Loughton [holding answer 21 June 2010]: The requested information is available as part of Statistical Building Schools for the Future Programme First Release: Children Looked After in England (including adoption and care leavers) year ending 31 March 2009. Glenda Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for This can be accessed via the Department’s website at: Education when his review of school capital funding http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000878/ will be completed; and if he will make a statement. index.shtml [2156] Table LAA1 gives information on the number of looked Mr Gibb: In the context of the budget deficit, the after children aged under 18 for each local authority for Government are reviewing all expenditure. The Department the years 2005 to 2009. This can be found in the excel has not taken any decisions on the Building Schools for link titled (1st set of additional tables). the Future programme. Departmental Contracts Pat Glass: To ask the Secretary of State for Education (1) whether he plans to change the Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for allocation of £26 million pounds to build a new Education what contracts his Department has entered academy in North West Durham constituency under into with external consultants since the Government the Building Schools for the Future programme; [2454] came into office; and what the (a) name of the (2) when he expects to answer question 2454, on the consultants, (b) terms of reference of the work, (c) Building Schools for the Future Programme, tabled on monetary value of the contract and (d) expected date 10 June 2010. [4655] of completion of the work is in each case. [3597] 487W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 488W

Tim Loughton [holding answer 28 June 2010]: Using Following this preparatory work a project plan will the Department’s Resource Management System to be produced detailing the costs and benefits along with identify consultancy purchase order information no a schedule of activity. We aim to complete the savings consultancy contracts were identified as having been exercise by the end of the financial year. entered into since the Government came into office (11 May 2010). However, the Department operates in a Departmental Reorganisation devolved manner so information on those consultancy contracts which may have been entered into but not yet John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for recorded on the Resource Management System is not Education what the cost to the public purse was of (a) held centrally. signage changes and (b) other measures involved in In terms of the Department’s NDPBs and agencies renaming his Department. [3179] consultancy engagements, records of these were not retained centrally prior to the introduction of the freeze Tim Loughton: The cost of renaming the Department on consultancy spend. However, the Department has was £5,250. In addition, it cost £2,250 to update our not approved any requests for consultancy from its website, £1,404 for signage and £91 for stationery with NDPBs or agencies since the freeze came into effect on the new brand. 24 May 2010. Foster Care Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what level of kinship care payments are Education how many special advisers (a) he and (b) made in each local authority in England. [4370] each named Minister in his Department (i) has appointed to date and (ii) plans to appoint. [312] Tim Loughton [holding answer 28 June 2010]: Information about the level of kinship care payments Michael Gove: I refer the hon. Member to the answer made in each local authority in England is not collected given by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, on centrally. 3 June 2010, Official Report, column 99W. Grammar Schools Departmental Official Cars

Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what his policy is on the use by Ministers in Education what his policy is on the creation of his Department of cars allocated from (a) his grammar school places. [3441] Department’s pool and (b) the Government car pool which are manufactured in the UK; whether Ministers Mr Gibb: The Government do not intend to increase in his Department are entitled to request the use of a the number of grammar schools. car manufactured in the UK; and if he will make a Schools: Anti-Semitism statement. [2411]

Michael Gove: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for given by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary Education what steps his Department (a) has taken of State for Transport on 14 June 2010, Official Report, recently and (b) plans to take to reduce levels of column 290W. anti-Semitism in schools; what recent discussions Ministers and officials in his Department have had on Departmental Public Expenditure this issue; what representations he has received on this issue since his appointment; and if he will make a Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [2910] Education how many officials in his Department are working on renegotiating contracts for the supply of Mr Gibb: Schools are currently under statutory duties goods and services to the Department as a result of to put in place measures to prevent and tackle all forms recently announced reductions in public spending; of discrimination and bullying; and provide an environment what savings are expected to accrue to his Department where all pupils feel safe and are able to learn and from such renegotiations; how much expenditure his achieve. This Government take very seriously the issue Department will incur on such renegotiations; and of anti-Semitism and is clear there is no place for it in when such renegotiations will be completed. [3658] ours schools. The Department’s officials will continue to attend Tim Loughton: We are in the process of identifying meetings of the Cross-Whitehall Group on anti-Semitism potential contracts from which savings can be made and ensure our future plans for reforming schools and through renegotiation. This activity is being undertaken tackling bullying consider steps to reducing levels of by various officials throughout my Department and the anti-Semitism in schools. number of officials varies from day to day. Therefore, an accurate number of officials working on renegotiation Schools: Management activities could only be provided at disproportionate costs. The amount of expenditure my department will Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for incur in renegotiating contracts and the savings accrued Education whether he plans to bring forward proposals will not be known until the scale of the activity is to amend the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 to determined. apply its provisions to free schools. [4538] 489W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 490W

Sarah Teather [holding answer 28 June 2010]: The Employment and support allowance claims received in Bexley between October Disability Discrimination Act will be repealed in October 2008 and August 2009 when the Equality Act 2010 is due to come into force Number and will replace all existing equality legislation. Maintained Fit for Work 500 and independent schools, and academies, are all covered Claim closed before assessment complete 500 by the specific education provisions in the Equality Act. In progress as at August 2009 100 It is planned that free schools will be set up as academies Total 1,400 which means that they will already be covered by the education provisions and no changes will be required. The Department for Work and Pensions regularly publishes official statistics on the Work Capability Assessment. The statistics were last updated in April WORK AND PENSIONS 2010 and published in the report “Employment and Disability Living Allowance Support Allowance: Work Capability Assessment: Official Statistics: April 2010”, a copy of which has been placed Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in the Library. The information is also available on the and Pensions (1) what form the medical assessment for internet at the following address: disability living allowance claimants to be introduced http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/esa_wca/ in 2013-14 will take; how much work will be required of esa_wca_arc.asp GPs and designated medical practitioners in undertaking such assessments; whether there will be Energy: Prices exemptions to the requirement to be so assessed; and if he will make a statement; [4786] Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work (2) what assessment he has made of the effect of and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number changes to the level of disability living allowance of people in (a) Bexleyheath and Crayford proposed in the 2010 Budget on existing recipients of constituency, (b) the London borough of Bexley, (c) that allowance; and if he will make a statement. [4787] Greater London and (d) England who are eligible for a rebate under the Energy Rebate Scheme. [3308] Maria Miller: The Budget announced that we would introduce a new objective assessment for disability living Steve Webb: The information requested is not available allowance from 2013-14. The design of the new assessment in the format requested. is at the early stages, but will take account of experience Under the Energy Rebate Scheme a person will be from the introduction of the work capability assessment. eligible for a rebate on their electricity account if, on We will also wish to work with a range of interested 26 March 2010, they or their partner were aged 70 or stakeholders and disabled people in developing a robust over and receiving only the guarantee credit element of and fair approach. pension credit and satisfied the electric supply criteria. In keeping with its commitment to protect people in The number of households with someone aged 70 or the most vulnerable situations, Budget 2010 also announced over and receiving only the guarantee credit element of that the Government would not be taking back the pension credit is shown in the following table. People 1.5% increase that was given to disability living allowance will qualify for a rebate if they or their partner were recipients last year. Instead the rates of this benefit will responsible for paying the electricity bill where they live be increased by the Consumer Prices Index in 2011 and and were not on a social or discounted tariff from their beyond, which is the most widely recognised measure of electricity supplier. price inflation. Employment and Support Allowance: Bexley Number of households as at November Area 2009

Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Bexleyheath and Crayford 420 and Pensions how many people in Bexleyheath and London Borough of Bexley 1,170 Crayford constituency have applied for employment Greater London 80,120 and support allowance since its creation; and how England 324,550 many of those applications have been refused. [3306] Notes: 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Chris Grayling: Data on the number of Employment 2. Parliamentary constituency of claimant (Westminster). These constituencies and Support Allowance claims in Bexleyheath and Crayford are used for the Westminster Parliament for May 2010. 3. Household is defined here as the number of individuals or couples in receipt is not available. of Pension Credit and equates to a “benefit unit”. (Since 2006 same-sex However, this data is available for the London partners—civil partners and cohabiters are included in the same benefit unit.) Two individuals who are not partners but live in the same house will be counted borough of Bexley local authority area, which covers as separate households; for example two sisters, each receiving Pension Credit in Bexleyheath and Crayford. The following table presents their own right, sharing a house together would be counted as two households. all employment and support allowance claims received 4. This information is published on the Nomis website at: www.nomisweb.co.uk in Bexley between October 2008 and August 2009 and Source: their outcomes. These figures exclude the small number DWP Information Directorate: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100% of clerical claims where the outcome is not recorded data electronically. Jobseeker’s Allowance: Dewsbury Employment and support allowance claims received in Bexley between October 2008 and August 2009 Simon Reevell: To ask the Secretary of State for Number Work and Pensions how many people in Dewsbury constituency claimed jobseeker’s allowance in each of Support Group 100 the last five years; and if he will make a statement. Work-related Group 200 [4356] 491W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 492W

Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. and support the most vulnerable. This included measures The information requested falls within the responsibility to better target support on low income families including of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority increase in the personal tax allowance and a £2 billion to reply. above indexation increase in the child tax credit. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2010: The Budget protects poor families and will have no As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I measurable impact on child poverty in the next two have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking years. The increase in value-added tax will have no how many people in Dewsbury constituency claimed jobseeker’s impact on children in relative low income poverty as allowance in each of the last five years. (4356) value-added tax is a tax on expenditure and not on The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number income. of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre Plus administrative system. Table 1 shows the number of persons Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance for May of each of the last 5 Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the years. number of children in measured income poverty (a) National and local area estimates for many labour market before housing costs and (b) after housing costs in statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant each year to 2014-15. [4645] count are available on the NOMIS website at: http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Maria Miller: The Budget announced a package of Table 1: Number of persons claiming jobseeker’s allowance resident in Dewsbury reforms to: support low and middle-income earners; parliamentary constituency tackle welfare dependency and unaffordable spending; As at May each year Number and support the most vulnerable. Measures announced 2006 1,402 in the Budget will have no significant negative impact 2007 1,405 on child poverty in the next two years. 2008 1,399 For example, some of the savings from the freeze on 2009 2,766 child benefit, will be recycled to increase the child tax 2010 2,613 credit by an additional £150 above indexation in 2011-12 Source: and £60 above indexation in 2012-13 enhancing support Jobcentre Plus administrative system for low-income families. Pensioners: Poverty Section 14 of the coalition document confirms the Government’s commitment to ending child poverty in Jessica Morden: To ask the Secretary of State for the UK. Work and Pensions what steps he plans to take to The Child Poverty Act commits Government to meeting reduce the number of pensioners living in poverty in targets towards ending child poverty by 2020, and to Wales. [3458] publishing a strategy to show how it will meet these targets by March 2011. Steve Webb: We will restore the earnings link for the We will develop a robust strategy which tackles the basic state pension from April 2011, with a ’triple root causes of poverty. It is only by doing this that we guarantee’ that pensions are raised by the highest of can effectively improve the outcomes for children in a earnings, prices or 2.5%. We will also protect key benefits sustainable way. for older people such as the winter fuel payment, free television licences, free bus travel, and free eye tests and The Government’s strategy will focus on all aspects prescriptions. of child poverty. Frank Field MP has been asked to lead a review into poverty, including how to measure and We want to ensure that older people receive the help make progress on non-financial elements of poverty. that they are entitled to. We aim to simplify the benefit system and as a first step we will be looking to conduct Social Security Benefits: Disability a research study into the feasibility of using existing data to help to improve the take-up of pension credit. Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for We will help prevent people from falling into poverty Work and Pensions pursuant to the Financial in later life by simplifying the rules and regulations Statement of 22 June 2010, Official Report, columns relating to pensions to help reinvigorate occupational 116-30, what estimate he has made of the savings pensions. We will encourage companies to offer high-quality arising from each measure announced in respect of pensions to all employees and will work with businesses each disability benefit in the next five years. [4502] and the industry to support auto enrolment. Maria Miller: The available information is in the Poverty: Children following tables. Impact of changes to uprating of disability benefits Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for £ million, nominal Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 number of children living in poverty, reckoning in the proposed increase in value added tax, (a) before Disability Living Allowance 15 -90 -240 -420 housing costs and (b) after housing costs in each year Attendance Allowance 5 -40 -105 -180 to 2014-15. [4644] Incapacity Benefit -75 -80 -95 0 Employment and Support -35 -50 -75 -105 Maria Miller: The Budget announced a package of Allowance (Income Related) Employment and Support -35 -50 -75 -210 reforms to: support low and middle-income earners; Allowance (Contribution tackle welfare dependency and unaffordable spending; Based) 493W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 494W

Impact of changes to uprating of disability benefits exercise a strategy will be developed to determine which £ million, nominal contracts can be renegotiated. Therefore at the present 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 time it cannot be determined how many DECC officials Severe Disablement Allowance -15 -15 -20 -25 will be working on renegotiating contracts and what Industrial Injuries 0 -5 -15 -25 cost savings are expected. Any renegotiation work is Disablement Benefit expected to be handled by existing contract mangers. At Income Support (Sick and -70 -65 -55 -25 this stage it is not possible to determine when contract Disabled) renegotiations will be complete. Total -205 -400 -680 -990 Notes: Energy Subsidy Reform 1. The estimates cover the impact of: (a) not reducing uprating in April 2011 by the 1.5% that was paid from April 2010, which had been assumed in previous plans to be clawed back; and (b) changing the price index for Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for uprating from the Retail Prices Index or the Rossi index to the Consumer Energy and Climate Change what contribution his Prices Index with effect from the April 2011 uprating. Department made to the Joint Report of the 2. Full estimates of savings are only available up to 2014-15 at present. 3. Estimates are consistent with Economic Assumptions from Budget 22 June International Energy Authority, the Organisation of 2010. Petroleum Exporting Countries, the Organisation for 4. The forecast assumes that the planned reassessment of people on incapacity Economic Co-operation and Development and the benefits will be completed by March 2014. 5. Figures are shown to the nearest £5 million and therefore may not sum due World Bank on energy subsidy reform. [4686] to rounding. 6. Figures are for Great Britain only. Charles Hendry: The report was commissioned by the Source: G20 at the Pittsburgh Summit and was produced DWP calculations. independently by the international organisations. Savings from reform of disability living allowance assessment £ million, nominal Energy: Billing Total

2011-12 — Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy 2012-13 — and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the 2013-14 -350 proportion of the average household energy bill 2014-15 -1,040 attributable to contributions for production subsidies. Notes: [4374] 1. Figures are for Great Britain only. 2. Estimates of savings are only available up to 2014-15 at present. Charles Hendry [holding answer 28 June 2010]: The Source: only subsidy for the production of electricity generation DWP calculations capacity currently reflected in energy bills is the renewables obligation, which Ofgem estimates to account for 3% of current average household electricity bills. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Radioactive Waste: Waste Management Departmental Public Expenditure David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether he plans to take Energy and Climate Change how many of his steps to increase the amount of information available Department’s contracts with its suppliers are under to the public about the safety of nuclear waste disposal. review as a result of the recently announced reductions [4777] in public expenditure; and what the monetary value is of all such contracts which are under review. [3637] Charles Hendry: Detailed information about the safety of nuclear waste disposal is already publicly available Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and and the Government are committed to maintaining this Climate Change is currently analysing all contracts with position and making such information as openly available its top 100 suppliers (by value). On completion of this and accessible as possible. The Department is currently exercise a strategy will be developed to determine which considering how it can provide increased visibility of contracts can be renegotiated. As this exercise is still the programme to implement geological disposal of ongoing there are no figures available for contracts higher activity radioactive waste including the possibility under review. of a published timeline and milestones. Following nearly three years of extensive consideration, Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for the independent Committee on Radioactive Waste Energy and Climate Change how many officials in his Management (CoRWM)gathered and published sufficient Department are working on renegotiating contracts for evidence to include geological disposal of higher activity the supply of goods and services to the Department as waste as the key element of their package of a result of recently announced reductions in public recommendations to Government in 2006. Geological spending; what savings are expected to accrue to his disposal is internationally recognised as the preferred Department from such renegotiations; how much approach to deal with higher activity waste and is being expenditure his Department will incur on such adopted in many countries as well as being supported renegotiations; and when such renegotiations will be by a number of UK learned societies including the completed. [3659] Royal Society, the Geological Society and the Royal Society of Chemistry.Detailed information from CoRWM’s Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and consideration of the options is available at: Climate Change is currently analysing ail contracts with www.corwm.org.uk/Pages/Lnk_pages/ its top 100 suppliers (by value). On completion of this key_issues.aspx#recommendations 495W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 496W

In setting out how geological disposal will be Charles Hendry: Eligibility within FITs will be considered implemented, the Department has set up a dedicated when the scheme is reviewed. Periodic reviews of the website: FITs scheme will be timed to coincide with the Renewables http://mrws.decc.gov.uk/ Obligation reviews, the first of which would see changes which provides, or links to, information at various levels implemented in 2013. of detail and which is intended to be accessible and Biomass will continue to be eligible to receive support helpful to people from nontechnical backgrounds through through the Renewables Obligation at all levels. to experts. This includes links to waste management organisations in other countries who are tackling similar Wales issues and to international expert bodies such as the Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for International Atomic Energy Agency and the OECD’s Energy and Climate Change with reference to the Nuclear Energy Agency. Chancellor of the Exchequer’s announcement of The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority has been 24 May 2010 and pursuant to the answer of 7 June given responsibility for implementing geological disposal 2010, Official Report, column 69W on public and will shortly be publishing “Geological Disposal: expenditure: Wales, which of his Department’s non- Steps towards implementation”setting out the preparatory devolved public expenditure savings will be incurred in work already undertaken, as well as explaining how the Wales; and what estimate he has made of the likely outputs of its work programme are designed to achieve financial savings. [2968] a safe, secure, sustainable and publicly acceptable outcome. This will be available at: Gregory Barker: While it is possible that some of the www.nda.gov.uk/aboutus/geological-disposal/index.cfm savings announced will have an impact in Wales, it is not possible at this stage to specify reductions to DECC A geological disposal facility will be regulated by the programmes or delivery bodies’ budgets that will directly Statutory Regulators who are working together to make affect Wales. sure that any future facility meets the required high standards for environmental protection, safety, security, In particular, the Department is still reviewing precisely waste management and radioactive waste transportation. which activities it will stop or scale back under its Information on this is available from their joint website at: national Environmental Transformation Fund and its Low Carbon Investment Funding. www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/sectors/ 111766.aspx In 2009, following public consultation, the environment agencies also published extensive guidance for geological JUSTICE and near-surface disposal facilities for radioactive waste and this is available at: Prison Sentences: Wales www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/sectors/99322.aspx Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Renewable Energy (1) how many residents of (a) Wrexham and (b) North Wales served custodial sentences of six months or fewer in the last three years for which figures are Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for available; [4270] Energy and Climate Change what steps he plans to (2) how many residents of (a) Wrexham and (b) take to encourage the use of energy from renewable North Wales served custodial sentences in each of the heat sources. [4266] last three years for which figures are available. [4271] Gregory Barker: The Government are committed to Mr Blunt: Data are published annually on the number increasing the amount of renewable heat in the UK; this of offenders released from prison having served custodial is a crucial part of ensuring we meet our renewables sentences, most recently data for 2008 which was published targets, cutting carbon and ensuring energy security. on the Ministry of Justice website in Offender Management We are currently looking at the renewable heat incentive Caseload Statistics 2008 under the following link: (RHI) proposals. Clearly there are benefits to the scheme, http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ but we must also consider the impact of the costs, prisonandprobation.htm particularly given the financial constraints we must However, information on offenders’ home address is work within and the potential impact that funding not routinely recorded on the data held centrally, and options could have on vulnerable people. could be provided only through manual checking of We are aware that there is uncertainty in the renewable prisoner records at disproportionate cost. heating industry and want to provide certainty and The following table shows the number of discharges clarity as quickly as possible, but must make sure that from determinate and life sentences from prisons in we make the right decision. England and Wales in each year from 2006 to 2008. We will look to make an announcement on the future Data for 2009 will be published in Offender Management of the proposed scheme as soon as possible. Caseload Statistics 2009 on 22 July 2010.

Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs Number 2006 2007 2008

Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Up to and including six 44,000 45,100 51,300 Energy and Climate Change what his policy is on months expanding feed-in tariffs to include electricity Over six months and up to 8,200 8,700 9,800 and including 12 months generated from biomass. [3786] 497W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 498W

These estimates are based on provisional information Number on families receiving Tax Credits as at April 2010. 2006 2007 2008 Further details about this data can be found in the 12 months and less than 23,300 23,600 25,300 HMRC snapshot publication “Child and Working Tax four years Credits. Geographical Analysis, April 2010”, available Four years and less than life 6,900 8,100 8,600 at: Lifers 135 146 138 http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- stats.htm Child Tax Credit: Scotland TREASURY Tom Greatrex: To ask the Chancellor of the Bank Services: Fees and Charges Exchequer how many people in (a) Rutherglen and Hamilton West constituency, (b) South Lanarkshire Martin Horwood: To ask the Chancellor of the Council area and (c) Scotland claim child tax credit. Exchequer what discussions his Department has had [4332] with the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Services Authority on a framework for bank charges since 2009. Mr Gauke: The latest information on the number of [4878] families with children benefiting from child and working tax credits, by each parliamentary constituency, local Mr Hoban: The Treasury has regular meetings and authority and region is available in the HMRC snapshot discussions with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) and publication ‘Child and Working Tax Credits Statistics. Financial Services Authority (FSA) on bank charges as Geographical Analyses. April 2010’, available at: part of the process of policy development. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- The Government stated in the coalition agreement apr2010.pdf that Child Trust Fund: Hartlepool “we will introduce stronger consumer protections, including measures to end unfair bank and financial transaction charges.” We are considering how best to implement this commitment Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Chancellor of the and will bring forward proposals, in consultation with Exchequer how many child trust fund accounts at the OFT and FSA, in due course. (a) standard and (b) higher rate have been opened in Hartlepool constituency in each year since the Capital Investment: Redcar inception of the fund; and how much the Exchequer has contributed to those accounts to date. [3234] Ian Swales: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much public sector capital funding his Mr Hoban: Statistical information about Child Trust Department allocated to Redcar constituency in each Funds is published on HM Revenue and Customs’ of the last five years. [4689] website at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/stats.htm Danny Alexander: Monitoring of capital expenditure at a constituency level is not undertaken centrally. Departmental Official Cars For the North East region, capital expenditure for the last five years is as follows: Mr Watson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many Government (a) cars and (b) drivers are North East England allocated to Ministers in his Department. [295] £ million

2004-05 1,230 Justine Greening: All Treasury Ministers except the 2005-06 1,477 Chancellor (for security reasons) have cancelled their 2006-07 1,542 allocated ministerial cars and drivers, following expiry 2007-08 1,583 of the contracted notice periods. Prior to May 2010, 2008-09 2,028 HM Treasury had contracts for six cars for Ministers (including the Chancellor) to be provided by the Child Tax Credit Government Car and Dispatch Agency, with five drivers. The new Ministerial Code, published on 21 May Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the 2010, contains changes that affect Ministerial entitlement Exchequer how many families are in receipt of the baby to travel by Government car. It states that element of tax credits (a) nationally and (b) in “the number of Ministers with allocated cars and drivers will [4735] Newcastle North constituency. be kept to a minimum, taking into account security and other relevant considerations. Other Ministers will be entitled to use Mr Gauke: The information requested is shown in the cars from the Government Car Service Pool as needed”. following table. The Department for Transport and its Government Car Table 1: Number of families receiving the baby element of tax credits in (a) and Despatch Agency are working with departments to England and (b) Newcastle-upon-Tyne North constituency effect the transition to the new arrangements. Thousand All out of work All in work Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer England 129.8 275.8 what the (a) make, (b) model and (c) place of Newcastle-upon-Tyne North 0.2 0.5 manufacture is of the car allocated for the use of each Minister in his Department. [1481] 499W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 500W

Justine Greening: The Treasury inherited six cars Green Investment Bank from the previous Government allocated to its Ministers. The cars comprise two Honda Civic ES Hybrid Caroline Lucas: To ask the Chancellor of the manufactured in Japan, two Toyota Prius T3 Hybrid Exchequer what criteria will apply for (a) companies made in Japan, one Vauxhall Vectra Design CDTi and (b) projects to be eligible to receive support from made in Germany and one Jaguar XJ TDVi Sovereign the planned Green Investment Bank. [4746] made in the United Kingdom. These arrangements are changing following the Justine Greening: As announced in the Budget, the publication of the new Ministerial Code which contains Government are considering a wide range of options changes that affect ministerial entitlement to travel by for the scope and structure of the Green Investment Government car. The code states that Bank. We will put forward detailed proposals following “the number of Ministers with allocated cars and drivers will the Spending Review. be kept to a minimum, taking into account security and other relevant considerations.” Income Tax: Tax Allowances The expectation is that Ministers not in the Cabinet will use the Government Car Service Pool and Cabinet Caroline Flint: To ask the Chancellor of the Ministers who have an allocated car will consider how Exchequer what the income tax personal allowance will that car might be utilised by other Ministers within the be for those aged over 65 years who are in employment Department before calls are made on the pool. in 2011-12. [4837] Energy: Subsidies Mr Gauke: This Government will announce the amount of the personal allowances for those aged 65 and over Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Chancellor of the for 2011-12 in the autumn, when September’s inflation Exchequer (1) what the outcomes were of his figures are known. discussions with G20 counterparts at the recent meeting on energy subsidy reform; [4624] Income Tax: Weaver Vale (2) what contribution his Department made to the Joint Report of the International Energy Authority, Graham Evans: To ask the Chancellor of the the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries, Exchequer if he will make an estimate of the number of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and people resident in Weaver Vale constituency who will Development and the World Bank on energy subsidy no longer pay income tax consequent on the proposed reform. [4685] increase in the personal allowance from April 2011. [4347] Justine Greening: The Chancellor attended a meeting of G20 Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors Mr Gauke: A total of 880,000 individuals are estimated in Korea on 4-5 June 2010. At that meeting they welcomed to be taken out of income tax. However, the information the strategies and timetables provided by many G20 requested is not available at parliamentary constituency members for phasing out and rationalising inefficient level due to small survey sample sizes at this level of fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption. geography, and because the information is based on They also received a draft report on the scope of energy 2007-08 survey data which would not be reliable for this subsidies and suggestions for implementing the G20 purpose. commitment made at the Pittsburgh Summit. The report was produced independently by the International Energy Available information on incomes and tax by Agency, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting parliamentary constituency based on the latest available Countries, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation Survey of Personal Incomes (2007-08) can be found in and Development and the World Bank. Table 3.15 “Income and tax by Parliamentary Constituency” at: Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income distribution/menu.htm

Mr Woolas: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander: Isle of Man pursuant to the written ministerial statement of 26 May 2010, Official Report, columns 51-52WS, on Bob Russell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Equitable Life, what progress he has made on his plans what recent discussions he has had with (a) the to make fair and transparent payments to Equitable government of the Isle of Man and (b) the Isle of Man Life policyholders, through an independently designed Regulator on the repayment to UK depositors of payment scheme; and if he will make a statement. savings placed with the Kaupthing Singer and [4510] Friedlander Bank; and if he will make a statement. [4573] Mr Hoban: Sir John Chadwick is advising the Treasury on the relative losses suffered by Equitable Life policyholders Mr Hoban: Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Isle of in relation to those accepted cases of maladministration Man (KSF IoM) is a subsidiary of the Icelandic parent resulting in injustice. He will submit his report by company Kaupthing Bank hf and is incorporated in the mid-July. Isle of Man. As such, oversight of KSF IoM was the At that time, the Government will publish Sir John’s responsibility of the Isle of Man’s Financial Supervision report alongside a detailed update on the next steps Commission and therefore compensation arrangements towards implementing an independently designed payment for retail depositors in KSF IoM are a matter for the scheme. Government of the Isle of Man. 501W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 502W

Treasury Ministers and officials have meetings with a chose to freeze child benefit for three years, while ensuring wide variety of organisations in the public and private better targeted support to low-income families by increasing sectors as part of the process of policy development the child element of the child tax credit by £150 in and delivery.As was the case with previous Administrations, 2011-12 with a further £60 in 2012-13. These increases it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of will happen over and above indexation. The freeze in all such meetings. child benefit is part of the overall Budget package and Personal Savings any assessment made refers to the package as a whole. As a result of all Budget measures, there is no overall Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the measurable impact on child poverty for the next two years. Exchequer what steps he intends to take to encourage The Government are committed to eradicating child the providers of cash ISA products to provide a more poverty by 2020, and will set out its strategy to do so responsive service to consumers wishing to switch their before end of March 2011. (a) product and (b) provider; and if he will make a statement. [4908] Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with reference to the 2010 Budget what Mr Hoban: Over 17 million people now hold cash assessment he has made of the likely effects of his ISAs and it is important that they are simple, transparent, proposals on the likelihood of achieving Government’s competitive and flexible. objective to end child poverty by 2020. [4677] The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) have today issued a response to the Consumer Focus “super-complaint” on Justine Greening: The Budget had twin aims: to reduce the market for cash ISAs, including on the time taken the deficit in a fair manner, and to ensure that the most for transfers to take place. vulnerable were protected. This included measures to The Government welcome the OFT’s report and the better target support on low income families including commitment from the ISA industry to reduce the time an above indexation increase in the child tax credit by limits for cash ISA transfers in its guidance. £150 in 2011-12, and a further £60 in 2012-13. The Budget will have no measurable impact on child poverty The Government also accept all of the OFT’s in the next two years. recommendations for them to act. The Government will include the reduced time limits for cash ISA transfers in HM Revenue and Customs guidance, and will also Pregnant Women: Grants consider changing the ISA regulations to reflect this. Poverty: Children Tom Greatrex: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many people in (a) Rutherglen and Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Hamilton West constituency, (b) South Lanarkshire Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effects council area and (c) Scotland had received health in on levels of child poverty of the measures announced pregnancy grants on the latest date for which figures in his recent Budget in each of the next five years. are available. [4336] [4295] Justine Greening: Geographical analysis of the number Justine Greening [holding answer 28 June 2010]: This of people benefiting from the health in pregnancy grant Government are committed to transparency and for the has not previously been undertaken, and therefore this first time have published estimates of the distributional information is only available at disproportionate cost. impact of announced tax and benefit measures at Budget 2010, available at: Public Expenditure: Wales http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_annexa.pdf The Budget announced a package of reforms to Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Chancellor of the support low and middle-income earners, tackle welfare Exchequer what his policy is on implementing the dependency and unaffordable spending and support the recommendation of the Independent Commission on most vulnerable. This included measures to better target Funding and Finance for Wales that the Government support to low-income families including an above- produce an annual publication enabling comparisons indexation increase in the child tax credit. The Budget between Welsh Assembly Government expenditure will have no measurable impact on child poverty in the under the Barnett Formula and equivalent expenditure next two years. in England. [4396] The Government’s strategy will focus on all aspects of child poverty. the right hon. Member for Birkenhead Danny Alexander: The Government note the (Mr Field) been asked to lead a review into poverty, recommendations of the first report of the Independent including how to measure and make progress on non- Commission on Funding and Finance for Wales and financial elements of poverty. look forward to the Commission’s final report. Figures for the country and regional breakdown of public spending Andrew Gwynne: To ask Chancellor of the are published in the Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effects (PESA). of the proposed freeze on child benefit on the likelihood of achieving Government’s objective to end Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Chancellor of the child poverty by 2020. [4676] Exchequer what (a) population ratios, (b) comparability factors and (c) calculations underpinthe Justine Greening: The Budget had twin aims: to reduce consequential changes to the funding of the National the deficit in a fair manner, and to ensure that the most Assembly for Wales announced on 22 June 2010; and if vulnerable were protected. At Budget, the Government he will make a statement. [4397] 503W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 504W

Danny Alexander: In relation to changes to the funding Liz Kendall: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the National Assembly for Wales announced on with reference to the 2010 Spending Review, what 22 June 2010, the recycled savings announced on 24 May mechanism he intends to use to determine whether 2010 were adjusted to reflect changes in business rate capital projects produce a significant economic return. relief announced in the Budget. There was a reduction [4639] in the recycled savings for the Welsh Assembly Government in 2010-11 of £1.5 million. This was calculated using the Danny Alexander: The Chancellor has announced Barnett Formula in the normal way. Details of the that the Government will conduct a Spending Review, Barnett Formula, including details of the population concluding on 20 October 2010. As part of this, figures and comparability factors, are published in the Government Departments have been asked to undertake Statement of Funding policy. a fundamental review of all capital spending plans to The Welsh Assembly Government’s budget for the identify the areas that will achieve the greatest economic spending review period will be published at the end of return. The Green Book sets out the methodology for the spending review. investment appraisal in central Government projects.

Public Expenditure: Yorkshire and the Humber Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what mechanism his Department plans to use to assess capital investment projects in the 2010 Simon Reevell: To ask the Chancellor of the Spending Review. [4653] Exchequer how much public sector capital funding was provided in each parliamentary constituency in Danny Alexander: The Chancellor has announced Yorkshire and the Humber in each of the last five that the Government will conduct a Spending Review, years; and if he will make a statement. [4358] concluding on 20 October 2010. As part of this, Government Departments have been asked to undertake Danny Alexander: Capital expenditure for Yorkshire a fundamental review of all capital spending plans to and Humber in each of the last five years was as identify the areas that will achieve the greatest economic follows: return. The Green Book sets out the methodology for Yorkshire and Humber investment appraisal in central Government projects. £ million The emergency Budget announced no further cuts in capital spending totals beyond those announced as part 2004-05 2,196 of the £6.2 billion of savings in 2010-11. 2005-06 2,537 2006-07 2,807 Research and Development Tax Credit 2007-08 2,890 2008-09 3,419 Nic Dakin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what his policy is on the future of research and Monitoring of capital expenditure at a constituency development tax credits for business; and if he will level is not undertaken centrally. make a statement. [4509] Public Finance Mr Gauke: The Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in the Budget statement that the Government will consult Glenda Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the with business in autumn 2010 to review the taxation of Exchequer pursuant to the oral statement of 17 June intellectual property, the support R&D tax credits provide 2010, Official Report, columns 1040-1, on public for innovation and the proposals of the Dyson Review. spending, what estimate he has made of the (a) number and cost of redundancies and (b) costs Revenue and Customs: Manpower incurred by the cancellation of contracts consequent on the cancellation of the 12 projects. [3983] Mr Gray: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many staff were on the payroll of HM Revenue Danny Alexander: The operational impact of these and Customs and its predecessors on (a) 1 May 1990, decisions is a matter for Departments. There may be (b) 1 May 2000 and (c) the most recent date for which some costs incurred and some impact on jobs by cancelling figures are available. [4508] these projects. However, by cancelling the projects at this stage the Government are reducing spending pressures, Mr Gauke: The number of staff in HM Revenue and enabling them to reduce the deficit as quickly as possible. Customs and its predecessor departments (HM Customs The 12 projects cancelled on 17 June have a lifetime cost and Excise and Inland Revenue) at 1 April 1990, 1 April of £2 billion which will now not be spent. The 12 projects 2000 and 31 May 2010 are shown in the following table. that have been cancelled carried costs of £491 million in Figures are not available for 1 May 1990 and 1 May 2010-11. 2000.

Number

Customs and Excise Inland Revenue Total/HMRC

HC FTE HC FTE HC FTE

1 April 1990 26,864 — 66,063 92,927 —

1 April 2000 22,640 21,910 66,870 62,460 89,510 84,370 505W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 506W

Number Customs and Excise Inland Revenue Total/HMRC HC FTE HC FTE HC FTE

31 May 2010 ————75,80368,676 HC = Headcount. FTE = Full-time equivalent. Separate figures for headcount and FTE were not reported for 1990. Source: These data are sourced from the statistics archive on the civil service website: http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/resources/stats-archive/archived-reports.aspx

Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Gauke: HMRC collates information on the number Exchequer how many (a) Protestant, (b) Roman and value of Time to Pay arrangements granted through Catholic and (c) non-determined appointees there the Business Payment Support Service (BPSS). were in HM Revenue and Customs offices in Northern Data on the number of businesses using the service Ireland in 2009. [4528] are not readily available at constituency or local authority level. At any point in time a business may have more Mr Gauke: The numbers of appointees to HM Revenue than one arrangement covering its different tax liabilities. and Customs in 2009, broken down by Protestant, A business may be granted a number of successive Roman Catholic and non-determined is as follows: arrangements. Protestant: 9 Following contact with the BPSS between 24 November Roman Catholic: 8 2008 and 20 June 2010: Non-determined: 3. 320 arrangements spreading payments covering tax debts worth £5.4 million have been granted to businesses within the Sheffield Forgemasters: Finance parliamentary constituency of Rutherglen and Hamilton West; 1,460 arrangements spreading payments covering tax debts Angela Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the worth £24 million have been granted to businesses within the Exchequer what representations his Department has South Lanarkshire council area; received from private sector companies on the decision 20,400 arrangements spreading payments covering tax debts not to proceed with the loan proposal for Sheffield worth £340 million have been granted to businesses within Forgemasters. [4523] Scotland. Taxation: Probate Danny Alexander: To the best of my knowledge, the Department has not received any representations from private sector companies on the decision not to proceed Richard Fuller: To ask the Chancellor of the with this loan. Exchequer how much HM Revenue and Customs spent on contesting the payment of taxes with probate Tax Allowances executors in 2009. [4617]

Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Gauke: The information requested is not available, Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect as HMRC’s systems do not capture information specifically of his Budget proposals for marginal tax rates on the in respect of work involving probate executors. distribution of personal incomes. [4680] VAT

Mr Gauke: Budget 2010 made no announcements on Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Chancellor of the income tax rates. Budget 2010 Chapter 2 provided a Exchequer what estimate he has made of the effects on detailed analysis of the impact of Budget tax and the number of jobs of the proposed change to the rate welfare changes on household incomes and marginal of value added tax. [4656] deduction rates. Taxation: Aviation Mr Gauke: To continue with the previous Government’s fiscal plans would put the recovery and jobs at risk. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the By acting now, the Government have reduced the risk Exchequer whether he plans to introduce value added of adverse market conditions, which would mean higher tax on aircraft fuel. [4559] interest rates for all, stifle recovery and make the challenges ahead even harder. Raising the standard rate of VAT is Mr Gauke: In accordance with international agreements an important element of the Government’s fiscal VAT is not charged on fuel used by aircraft operating consolidation plans. on international routes. However, even if VAT were The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) forecasts applied to such supplies airlines could recover the VAT that unemployment will come down from 8.1% this charged, as input VAT, in the normal way. year, falling in every year to 6.1% in 2015. In producing its forecasts, the OBR has considered the employment Taxation: Business impacts of the announced consolidation as a whole. Tom Greatrex: To ask the Chancellor of the VAT: Great Yarmouth Exchequer how many businesses in (a) Rutherglen and Hamilton West constituency, (b) South Lanarkshire Brandon Lewis: To ask the Chancellor of the council area and (c) Scotland had used the Time to Exchequer how many businesses in Great Yarmouth Pay programme on the latest date for which figures are were registered for value added tax in each of the last available. [4334] five years. [4401] 507W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 508W

Mr Gauke: The existing population of VAT registered HOME DEPARTMENT businesses and the number of businesses that registered for VAT during the year, for years since 2003, is shown Community Policing for Great Yarmouth in the following table. Alan Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Registrations during Home Department what estimate she has made of the Start of year stock year number of neighbourhood policing teams which will be 2003 2,325 230 affected by the reduction in police funding for 2010-11. [4138] 2004 2,360 195 2005 2,385 200 Mrs May [holding answer 24 June 2010]: The 2006 2,400 210 Government supports neighbourhood policing and are 2007 2,440 200 committed to ensuring that all communities receive a 2008 2,485 — high quality policing service that meets local priorities. These figures came from the report “Business Start-ups It is for police authorities and forces to decide how and Closures: VAT Registrations and De-registrations”, many neighbourhood policing teams communities need published by The Department for Businesses Enterprise and where to deploy them. I am confident that the and Regulatory Reform in November 2008. This report police should be able to maintain front-line services is no longer published. while making the savings required for their contribution towards the in-year budget cuts. Working Tax Credit Crime Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many families in (a) Newcastle North Alan Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the constituency and (b) the UK are in receipt of the child Home Department what the change has been in the care element of tax credits; and how many of those number of incidents of (a) violent crime, (b) burglary, earn a joint household income of (a) less than £20,000, (c) theft and (d) domestic violence between 1997 and (b) between £20,000 and £24,999, (c) between £25,000 the latest date for which information is available. [1993] and £29,999, (d) between £30,000 and £34,999, (e) between £35,000 and £39,999 and (f) £40,000 or more. Mrs May [holding answer 14 June 2010]: There are [4714] two main sources of official statistics on trends in crime; the British Crime Survey and police recorded Mr Gauke: The information requested is shown in the crime. Both sets of statistics have different strengths following table. and weaknesses and provide an incomplete picture about the level of offending. Table 1: Number of families benefiting from the child care element of tax credits in the Newcastle North constituency Statistics on the number of incidents of violent crime, Current year joint household burglary, theft and domestic violence from the two income Number sources are published annually in the Home Office statistical bulletin Crime in England and Wales, a copy Less than £20,000 400 of which is available in the House of Commons Library. £20,000-£24,999 60 £25,000-£29,999 70 Mr Spencer: To ask the Secretary of State for the Over £30,000 70 Home Department what assessment she has made of All families 600 the level of public confidence in published crime The income bands over £30,000 have been combined statistics. [3821] because the numbers in the individual categories would be disclosive. James Brokenshire [holding answer 22 June 2010]: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer given on 22 June Table 2: Number of families benefiting from the child care element of 2010, Official Report, column 145W. tax credits in the UK Current year joint household Departmental Public Expenditure income Number Less than £20,000 302,200 Alan Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the £20,000-£24,999 56,700 Home Department which elements of the proposed £25,000-£29,999 51,900 £82 million savings announced to the budgets of her £30,000-£34,999 37,000 Department’s agencies and non-departmental public £35000-£40000 21,200 bodies were contained in the £346 million savings to Over £40,000 19,800 her Department’s budget announced in the most recent All families 488,800 budget statement. [2431]

These estimates are based on provisional information Mrs May [holding answer 15 June 2010]: Due to the on families receiving tax credits as at April 2010. Further poor state of the public finances, this Government have details about this data can be found in the HMRC decided to take urgent and radical action in 2010-11 to snapshot publication “Child and Working Tax Credits. save £82 million from the budgets of the National Geographical Analysis, April 2010”, available at: Police Improvement Agency, Serious Organised Crime http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- Agency, Identity and Passport Service, Government stats.htm Equalities Office and Government Office London. 509W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 510W

None of the proposed Home Office efficiency savings James Brokenshire: The fixed penalty for a speeding announced in the March 2010 Budget statement were offence is £60. Following the ending of the National due to result in reduced budgets in 2010-11. Safety Camera Funding Scheme, all such income, whether or not the offence was detected by camera, goes to the Passports: Biometrics Consolidated Fund. Information on the amount that has accrued to the Alan Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Consolidated Fund from speeding offences detected by Home Department what her policy is on halting the camera cannot be identified separately. Data on the second generation of biometric passports after 2012. number of fixed penalties issued and paid per year for [4134] all motoring offences and separately on all speeding offences detected by camera are collected centrally and Mrs May [holding answer 24 June 2010]: The work published as part of National Statistics. These are outlined to introduce fingerprint biometrics in passports from in detail within Chapter 3 of the Home Office Statistical 2012 has been halted. However, we will continue to Bulletin: ‘Police Powers and Procedures’. Sections 3.3 maintain the integrity and security of our passports and 3.4 deal respectively with fixed penalty notices through other security features including facial image generally and notices issued on the basis of speed biometrics contained in a chip in the passport. camera evidence respectively.The latest publication outlines Speed Limits: Cameras data for the financial year 2008-09 as well as making reference to historical data. Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for the A copy of the publication is available from the Library Home Department how much accrued to the of the House. A link to the publication online is provided Consolidated Fund from the payment of penalties for the Member’s convenience. The relevant tables from issued on the basis of evidence from speed cameras in the publication are also provided with this answer. each year since 2007. [4188] http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0610.pdf

Table 3c: Fixed penalty notices by result—percentage paid, fine registered, etc, England and Wales Percentage Result 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Penaltypaid79808284878890899089 Nofurtheraction8754332222 Fine registered 13 12 13 11 1097788 Referred for court 0.6 0.5 0.5 0.4 0.3 0.4 0.7 0.6 0.2 0.3 proceedings Total notices dealt 3,089 2,984 2,897 2,866 3,506 3,377 3,281 3,047 2,613 2,299 with (thousand)

Table 3e: Fixed penalties notices (FPNs)1 for speeding offences detected by (including referrals for court proceedings). However cameras, England and Wales these data, as provided to the Home Office, cannot be Number (Thousand) broken down by type of offence or whether a speed 2000 599 camera was involved. 2001 878 2002 1,135 Theft: Electronic Equipment 2003 1,670 2004 1,787 David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2005 1,764 Home Department what steps are being taken to 2006 1,634 prevent young people carrying electronic devices from 2007 1,260 being targeted by street criminals. [4198] 2008 1,028 1 Includes only FPNs issued and paid. Where penalties are not paid and are referred to court, they are no longer recorded as FPNs. James Brokenshire: Where street robbery is a problem at a local level, it is the responsibility of the Community Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for the Safety Partnership (CSP), which includes the local police Home Department how many notices of intended force, to tackle this. Local agencies have been given the prosecution have been issued for speeding in a speed autonomy to respond as appropriate, prioritising their camera site area in each year since 2007. [4189] resources to target those issues of most importance locally. Where robbery has been a problem, areas have analysed victim and perpetrator profiles as well as locations, James Brokenshire: The information requested is not and developed responses to specific issues such as youth available. on youth robberies or robberies associated with the The Home Office collects data on the number of night time economy.Other success factors include improved fixed penalty notices issued and paid, for speed limit joint tasking and working between the police and key offences in England and Wales involving the use the use partners, CCTV and targeted crime prevention advice, of any camera device. There were 1.26 million such such as poster campaigns. notices in 2007 and 1.03 million notices in 2008. Mobile phones are commonly taken during robberies Data are also collected for number of fixed penalty and other personal thefts. The National Mobile Phone notices issued for total motoring offences by final disposal Crime Unit, part funded by the Home Office, tackles 511W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 512W mobile phone theft through working with the mobile institutional stability, open dialogue, rule of law and phone industry on phone security and disabling stolen democracy for the people of Kyrgyzstan. We are pleased phones. They also provide a resource for local police that the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in forces by providing expert training and advice on individual Europe’s Office for Democratic Institutions and Human cases, and through the provision of the National Mobile Rights issued a positive initial assessment of the referendum. Phone Register where police can quickly check if a This represents an important step in the long path phone is stolen. towards normalisation in Kyrgyzstan. We shall continue to monitor developments closely.

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Languages: GCSE

Armed Conflict: Diamonds Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign answer of 15 February 2010, Official Report, column and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss with his 355W, on EU institutions, if he will discuss with the EU counterparts the level of compliance of conditions Secretary of State for Education proposals to increase in the Marange diamond fields with the terms of the the number of secondary school pupils studying for a Kimberley Process certification scheme; and if he will modern European language GCSE. [4623] make a statement. [4307] Mr Bellingham: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Mr Jeremy Browne: Both my right hon. Friend the Secretary has had no discussions with EU counterparts. Secretary of State for Education and I recognise the Ministers will be considering the UK’s position following importance of school pupils learning foreign languages, the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme (KP) including modern European languages. The Government Intersessional in Tel Aviv on 21 to 23 June 2010, at have announced that there will be a review of the which the issue of Zimbabwe diamond exports was National Curriculum, including language learning. There extensively discussed. will be an announcement concerning the detail of the review in due course. We are disappointed that agreement could not be reached at the Kimberley Process Intersessional meeting Languages: Higher Education on the export of Zimbabwe diamonds. The UK remains fully committed to working with the European Commission to ensure that all KP participants, including Zimbabwe, Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for comply with KP requirements. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of 15 February 2010, Official Report, column European Parliament 355W, on EU institutions, if he will discuss with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for proposals to increase the modern European language Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the skills of students in British universities. [4622] answer of 21 June 2010, Official Report, column 37W, on the European Parliament, what further steps he Mr Jeremy Browne: Both my right hon. Friend the plans to take to raise the question of the European Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills Parliament’s seat in Strasbourg. [4862] and I recognise the importance of students pursuing modern European language studies. It is important that Mr Lidington: I intend to build support amongst my higher education institutions offer the widest variety of counterparts across the EU where possible. good quality courses to students, including a range of modern European languages. The Government funded Kyrgyzstan: Violence “Routes into Languages” programme works to stimulate Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for demand for language learning in every region of England. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Palestinians: International Assistance assessment his Department has made of the security situation in the Kyrgyz Republic, with particular reference to ethnic violence; and if he will make a Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [4602] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has made to his Israeli counterpart Mr Jeremy Browne: We are deeply concerned by the on the cases of three British citizens on the Gaza aid recent events in Kyrgyzstan. The situation on the ground flotilla who were taken into custody and whose UK remains extremely fragile. The UK co-sponsored a passports have not been returned; and whether he has resolution at the UN Human Rights Council on 18 taken steps to seek to secure the return from the Israeli June that called for a transparent investigation into the authorities of the possessions of other British citizens events of April and the recent inter-ethnic violence, and on that flotilla. [4398] urged the Kyrgyz authorities to promote inter-ethnic reconciliation. Alistair Burt: I have raised these specific issues with We and our EU partners have underlined the importance Israel’s ambassador to the UK. Our ambassador to of pursuing the political process to build democratic Israel and other members of the British embassy in Tel institutions in Kyrgyzstan, notably through the referendum Aviv have also raised the matter on a number of occasions on a new constitution that took place on 27 June and with the Israeli authorities. It has also been raised by through parliamentary elections later this year. This the EU presidency, on behalf of EU Heads of Mission, process represents the best chance to ensure peace, with the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 513W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 514W

I can confirm we have received all three missing HEALTH passports which will be returned to the holders. We, and the EU, have also been informed by the Israelis that all Young Children the personal belongings have now been sent to Turkey, to the organisers of the Flotilla (Foundation for Human 18. Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (Insani Health what steps he is taking to increase the level of Yardim Vakfi), (IHH). We understand that the Turkish participation in local public health programmes for authorities agree this to be correct. I explained this to young children funded by his Department. [4476] the British nationals who I met on 17 June. We have also been informed by the Israeli authorities that the return Anne Milton: The Government are reviewing all the of magnetic and media equipment is under consideration public health programmes funded by the Department by the Israeli defence forces. We will continue to press of Health. for its return and availability for use in the inquiry, as We want to identify those programmes that are evidence required by those conducting it. based and making a real difference to the lives of young We have also asked exceptionally asked our consular children, especially the most vulnerable or disadvantaged. staff in Istanbul to follow up with IHH who still hold over 300 pieces of unclaimed luggage, including watches, Commissioning Structures phones and cameras. Our consular staff have taken photos of everything that was seen in IHH’s storage, 19. Bob Blackman: To ask the Secretary of State for which we will shortly be distributing to the British Health what plans he has to merge primary care trust nationals involved so they can attempt to identify any commissioning structures with local authorities; and if property that is theirs. he will make a statement. [4477]

Mr Lansley: The Government intend to devolve day- South America: Organised Crime to-day national health service commissioning to practice-led commissioners. We do not therefore plan to merge David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for primary care trust commissioning structures with local Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment authorities. We do intend to secure greater co-ordination he has made of the implications of the election of the of public health commissioning and health and social new president of Colombia for UK policy on care joint working; this will engage the NHS with local combating drug trafficking and organised crime in authorities. South America. [4778] Healthcare-acquired Infections Mr Jeremy Browne: We have an excellent and successful working relationship with Colombia on 20. Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for tackling the cocaine trade and organised crime. We are Health what steps he plans to take to eradicate confident that this will continue under president-elect, healthcare-acquired infections in NHS facilities. [4478] Juan Manuel Santos, who is committed to working with the UK and other international partners to combat this Mr Simon Burns: The revised NHS Operating global threat. Framework for 2010-11, published last week, made clear we have a zero tolerance approach to avoidable infections. National health service organisations should United Nations: Reform deliver continuous improvement. We have already introduced weekly reporting for MRSA and C. difficile Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for and are considering a widening of the mandatory Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is surveillance system to cover other infections. on reform of the United Nations. [4633] Healthy Child Programme Mr Bellingham: We need a strong UN to resolve and manage international challenges such as conflict prevention 21. Roberta Blackman-Woods: To ask the Secretary and resolution, proliferation of nuclear weapons, of State for Health what plans he has for the healthy international terrorism and climate change. We shall child programme; and if he will make a statement. work with other member states to modernise UN [4479] practices, to make the UN more effective and to strengthen its capacity to deliver where most needed. It Anne Milton: In the coalition agreement, we state our also remains vital that the UN balances member states’ aim to promote public health and prevent ill health. We demands for activity with sustainable budget levels. believe that this needs to start in pregnancy and continue The UN Security Council is the only global body throughout childhood and adolescence. that has the legitimacy and moral authority to respond to global threats to peace and security. It needs to Long-Term Neurological Conditions become more representative of the modern world, but at the same time no less effective in taking necessary 22. Duncan Hames: To ask the Secretary of State for decisions to maintain international peace and Health what his most recent assessment is of his security. We support permanent seats on a reformed Department’s progress in the implementation of the Council for Japan, India, Germany, Brazil and African national health service framework for long-term representation. neurological conditions. [4480] 515W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 516W

Mr Burstow: We are currently considering the timing Anne Milton: The Government have no plans to and scope of the Mid Point Review for this Framework, introduce a minimum unit price for alcohol. The Coalition and will report to the House in due course. programme for government includes commitments to ban the sale of alcohol below cost and to review alcohol Work Capability: Fluctuating Conditions taxation and pricing, to ensure it tackles binge drinking without unfairly penalising responsible drinkers, pubs, 23. Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State and important local industries. A public consultation for Health what discussions he has had with the on options for improving information on the labels of Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on the alcoholic drinks to support consumers to make healthier methods for assessing patients with multiple sclerosis, choices closed on 31 May. The responses will be analysed myalgic encephalopathy, fibromyalgia and other and we will make an announcement on our decision for fluctuating conditions for the purpose of work a way forward in due course. capability assessments. [4481] Blood: Contamination

Mr Burstow: No discussion has taken place. Diana R. Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Our policies will ensure that disability or illness is not Health if he will equalise the level of payments made a barrier to work for those that can work, as well as by the Skipton Fund and the MacFarlane Trust for providing appropriate support for those unable to do so people infected by contaminated blood and blood as a result of their health condition. products. [4384]

Waiting Times Anne Milton: I refer the hon. Member to the written answer I gave the hon. Member for West Worcestershire 24. Mr Mudie: To ask the Secretary of State for (Harriett Baldwin) on 7 June 2010, Official Report, Health what representations he has received on the column 46W. maximum target period of 18 weeks between GP Cancer: Drugs referral and treatment; and if he will make a statement. [4482] Jacob Rees-Mogg: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: We have received a number of Health if he will instruct the National Institute for representations on the 18 weeks target. We believe the Health and Clinical Excellence to expedite its review of national health service must focus on securing improved Lapatinib. [4892] health outcomes for patients rather than on process targets that do not lead to improvements in patient Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health health, so, on 18 weeks, we have removed central and Clinical Excellence (NICE) develops guidance based performance management to empower clinicians and on a robust assessment of the available evidence and in patients. wide consultation with stakeholders. NICE is an independent body and it would not be appropriate for Ministers to interfere in an ongoing NICE appraisal. Combat Veterans: Mental Health Contaminated Blood and Blood Products Inquiry 25. Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what plans he has to improve arrangements for Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for mental health care of combat veterans; and if he will Health what his policy is on Recommendation 6(h) of make a statement. [4483] Lord Archer’s report on contaminated blood and blood products. [4758] Mr Simon Burns: We are committed to providing veterans with effective mental health services. Six pilot Anne Milton: We are considering our response to a schemes will assist veteran mental health planning from recent High Court judgment on the level of payments 2011-12. made to those affected by contaminated blood and The Prime Minister requested the hon. Member for blood products and will announce a decision in due South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) to review military course. In the meantime, ex-gratia payments will continue health provision, including veteran mental health, and to be paid at current levels to those affected. he expects to report in July. Dietary Supplements: EU Law £2 million funding was recently confirmed by the Secretary of State to work with our strategic partners to Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health identify how to invest funding into NHS services to what recent representations he has received on the ensure the best treatment possible for veterans with Food Supplements Directive; and if he will make a mental health problems. statement. [4314]

Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse Anne Milton: Health Ministers have recently received representations in the form of parliamentary questions Jim Dowd: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and correspondence on behalf of industry and consumers whether he plans to bring forward proposals for a (a) from Members of Parliament, and correspondence from minimum unit pricing on alcohol products and (b) industry, about the setting of maximum levels for vitamins requirement for such products to carry health warning and minerals in recommended daily doses of food labels. [4255] supplements under the EU Food Supplements Directive. 517W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 518W

Drugs: Rehabilitation pending the results of physical checks, including laboratory analysis. The competent authority at the DPE in England Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for should liaise with the relevant competent authority of Health (1) what assessment he has made of the (a) the member state of destination to ensure that the effectiveness and (b) value for money of total consignment remains under the control of the competent abstinence-based drugs treatment programmes authorities involved until results are known. compared with other forms of treatment; and what account he has taken of this assessment in determining Herbal Medicines: EU Law the future funding of drugs treatment programmes by his Department; [4055] Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) what assessment he has made of the (a) Health (1) if he will assess the potential effect on the effectiveness and (b) value for money of total number of visits to GPs by patients of withdrawal of abstinence-based drugs treatment programmes authorisation for certain herbal products following the compared with other forms of treatment; and what implementation of the provisions of the EU account he has taken of this assessment in determining Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive; the future funding of drugs treatment programmes by [4404] his Department. [4054] (2) how many herbal products he estimates will be removed from the market following the Anne Milton: Our priority is to see drug misusers implementation of the provisions of the EU achieve abstinence and contribute productively to society. Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive; In 2007, the National Institute for Health and Clinical [4405] Excellence (NICE) published “Technology Appraisals (3) what assessment has been made of the effect on on methadone and buprenorphine” small businesses of implementation of the EU www.nice.org.uk/TA114 Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive; and also NICE Clinical Guidelines on opiate detoxification [4406] www.nice.org.uk/CG52 (4) if he will take steps to assist small and and on psychosocial interventions medium-sized businesses adversely affected by the implementation of the EU Traditional Herbal www.nice.org.uk/CG51 Medicinal Products Directive; [4407] for drug misuse. (5) if he will bring forward proposals to establish an In addition, the Department, in conjunction with independent appeals process to decide on cases of other United Kingdom administrations, published updated dispute on whether a herb is a medicine; [4414] UK Clinical Guidelines on drug misuse, “Drug misuse (6) if he will seek an opt-out for the UK from the and dependence—UK guidelines on clinical provisions of the EU Traditional Herbal Medicinal management—2007”. Products Directive. [4415] The National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse has produced guidance on the evidence base and clinical Anne Milton: Directive 2004/24/EC on traditional practice of drug treatment which can be found at: herbal medicinal products was implemented in the United www.nta.nhs.uk/publications.aspx Kingdom in October 2005. The directive takes full Decisions about future funding will be taken following effect when the transitional period for compliance expires the Spending Review. on 30 April 2011. NICE periodically reviews its guidance to determine The effect of the directive in the UK is to bring a whether an update is required. sector that was previously largely unregulated into systematic medicines regulation. The Medicines and Food: Pesticides Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) in its impact assessment recognised that some businesses, Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for including small and medium-sized manufacturers, were Health if he will consider the merits of undertaking likely to be significantly affected, and that the impact pesticides analysis of high-risk non-animal origin would vary widely depending on the standards to which foodstuffs in an approved laboratory prior to dispatch the businesses were currently operating. The assessment to a destination in another EU member state; and if he also suggested that some restructuring in the herbal will make a statement. [4118] sector was likely. This view has not changed. The MHRA has so far received 143 applications to Anne Milton: We have been advised by the Food register products under the traditional herbal registration Standards Agency that consignments of certain high-risk (THR) scheme. Of these applications 61 have been products of non-animal origin are subjected to laboratory granted, and the remainder are under assessment. The analysis in an approved laboratory to detect the presence agency is aware that many companies have made detailed of pesticides, at set frequencies dependant on the particular preparations to comply with the requirements of the product and country of origin. directive. These controls are set out in Commission Regulation The Better Regulation Executive review of MHRA (EC) No. 669/2009 (as amended). Where a consignment implementation of Hampton principles reported in 2009 arrives at a designated point of entry (DPE) in England that the agency had given extensive help to industry in which is destined for another European Union member preparing to meet the requirements of the directive. state, the competent authority at the DPE in England MHRA will continue to provide such support, which may authorise onward transmission of the consignment includes the opportunity for companies to have dialogue 519W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 520W with the agency as to how they can most effectively Mumps: Vaccination progress their intended applications under the THR scheme. Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Companies are not required to notify the MHRA of Health if he will make an assessment of the merits of unlicensed products marketed under section 12(2) of reintroducing a licence for the single mumps vaccine. the Medicines Act 1968, therefore no estimates are [4393] available of how many products will need to be withdrawn from the UK market following the expiry of the transitional Anne Milton: The reintroduction of a licence for a period. As now there will continue to be many herbal single mumps vaccine would require a manufacturer to products that potentially can be placed on the market submit a marketing authorisation application to the either as medicinal products or under other product Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. regulatory regimes depending on their presentation. The application would be considered in line with current Historically, unlicensed herbal medicines have been legislative requirements regarding the licensing of medicines. made to widely varying standards and have not necessarily The applicant would need to demonstrate acceptable been accompanied by reliable information about safe quality, safety and efficacy of the vaccine before a usage. Products registered under the THR scheme are licence could be granted. manufactured to high standards and come with authorised information for the consumer. We do not believe it Muscular Dystrophy would be feasible to make reliable predictions as to the combined impact of actual changes in the regulatory Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for regime and possible future changes in the herbal medicines Health how much funding was allocated for the care of market on the number of visits to general practitioners. Duchenne muscular dystrophy patients in each region The process for determining whether or not a product through special commissioning groups in the latest is a medicine already includes the option of a review by period for which figures are available. [4318] the Independent Review Panel for Borderline Products. This panel was introduced in 2000 and details are Mr Burstow: This information is not collected routinely. included in the MHRA’s guidance note no. 8, a guide to Not all specialised commissioning groups commission what is a medicinal product. services for people with Duchenne muscular dystrophy. Services tend to be located in larger hospitals based in big towns and cities. Hospitals: Buildings NHS: ICT Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many empty former psychiatric hospitals Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for there are; and how many of them are in the process of Health (1) what percentage of NHS IT expenditure in (a) being sold and (b) being sold for the purpose of 2009 was on online services accessible to people with affordable housing. [4413] an internet browser; [4408] (2) what percentage of NHS IT expenditure in 2009 Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number of was spent on software which can only be maintained by empty former psychiatric hospitals is not held by the the original supplier; [4409] Department. Parts of the site of two psychiatric hospitals (3) how much the NHS has spent on IT projects over are in the ownership of the Secretary of State for three years late in delivery (a) in total and (b) in 2009; Health. One of these sites is in the process of being sold for redevelopment as a care village and thus will not [4410] include affordable housing. (4) what percentage of NHS IT projects were put out to tender online in 2009. [4411] Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make an assessment of the merits of Mr Simon Burns: Comprehensive information about the sale by the NHS of empty properties which were information technology procurements by national health formerly mental health institutions. [4791] service organisations is not held centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Mr Simon Burns: National health service trusts, as North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust owners, are responsible for the management of their estate and for decisions as to whether a property is considered to be surplus to requirements. The proceeds Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Health from the sale of property owned by NHS trusts are whether his Department has made an assessment of reinvested in improving local healthcare. the effects on the revenue budget of North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust of the decision not to proceed with its proposed new hospital; and what Medical Equipment assessment his Department has made of the effects of that decision on the Trust’s capacity to reduce health Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for inequalities in its area. [4195] Health if he will make an estimate of the number of static NHS lithotriptor machines there are per million Mr Simon Burns: Assessing the implications of the population in England. [4848] Treasury’s decision not to fund the proposed new hospital in North Tees and Hartlepool is a matter for the local Mr Simon Burns: This information is not held centrally. national health service. We understand that the primary 521W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 522W care trusts in the area, NHS Hartlepool and NHS Warrington Primary Care Trust: Finance Stockton-on-Tees, will continue to work closely with North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust on David Mowat: To ask the Secretary of State for delivering the wider “Momentum: Pathways to Healthcare” Health (1) what steps his Department has taken to programme, and will be discussing the options available process the adjustment in direction of travel formula with the Trust. (DTF) in respect of Warrington Primary Care Trust in the last three years; what estimate he has made of the revenue accruing to Warrington Primary Care Trust in Quarrying: Health Hazards that period (a) with and (b) without the DTF adjustment; and if he will make a statement; [4192] (2) what assessment he has made of the operation of Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for his Department’s funding formula for health services in Health what information his Department holds on the Warrington; and if he will adjust the formula to take health effects of dust particles on the people resident in into account the recent change in population in areas near mineral or gravel pits. [4315] Warrington. [4193] Anne Milton: The Department holds no information Mr Simon Burns: The following table shows the actual specifically on the health effects of dust particles on allocation to Warrington Primary Care Trust (PCT), people resident in areas near mineral or gravel pits. annual cash increases and distance from target positions Local authorities regulate dust emissions from mineral in cash and percentage terms for the three years 2008-09 extraction sites. to 2010-11.

Cash increase Distance from target Distance from target Actual allocation (£000) (percentage) Cash increase (£000) (percentage) (£000)

2008-09 273,199 5.50 14,149 — — 2009-10 290,606 5.50 15,150 -1.4 -4,082 2010-11 306,628 5.51 16,022 -1.4 -4,307 Notes: 1. The funding formula was frozen in 2008-09 therefore no distance from target allocations were calculated. 2. A new funding formula was introduced for the 2009-10 and 2010-11 revenue allocations. The application of a new funding formula and data updates impact upon PCTs’ target allocations. Average growth in each year was 5.5%. Source: The Department of Health: PCT Revenue Allocations Team

PCT allocations are based on the most up-to-date Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International population figures available at the time of making the Development (DFID) has not hitherto held central allocations. The 2009-10 and 2010-11 revenue allocations records of our overseas estates. We are currently in the used sub-national population projections published in process of developing a central information management 2008. The formula also includes an adjustment to take system that will capture this information. I will write to account of the Communities and Local Government the hon. Member with the requested information once Growth Areas and New Growth Points and the allocation this system is in place. takes account of the Growth Point covered by Warrington PCT. PCT allocations are highlighted in the coalition Family Planning agreement as an area for consideration. An independent national health service board is to be established Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for to allocate resources and provide commissioning International Development which section of his guidelines. Department has responsibility for the (a) formulation We have guaranteed health spending will increase and (b) implementation of policy on (i) abortion and in real terms in each year of the Parliament and (ii) sexual and reproductive health; how many officials health care spend will also be looked at as part of the in his Department at each pay band are employed in next spending review. This will inform the speed at this section; what other posts in his Department each which all PCTs move towards their target revenue such official has held; and if he will make a statement. allocations. [4303]

Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Development’s (DFID’s) AIDS and Reproductive Health Team, in the Policy and Research Directorate, is Departmental Buildings responsible for the formulation of policies on sexual, reproductive and maternal health, which encompasses Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for safe abortion. Under DFID’s devolved structure, International Development what properties his implementation of policy is the responsibility of all Department (a) owns and (b) leases overseas; whether programme divisions. those properties are shared with other Government The number of equivalent full-time staff employed at Departments and non-departmental public bodies; and each civil service grade and pay scale in the AIDS and whether he plans to (i) sell the property or (ii) cancel Reproductive Health Team are provided in the following the lease in each case. [3520] table: 523W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 524W

Number of equivalent full-time staff DFID grade Traditional civil service grade Pay range (London scale

1 A1 G6 £58,120 to £68,221 6.6 A2 G7 £47,555 to £56,293 2.5 B1 HEO £30,868 to £34,534 1 B2 EO £25,029 to £27,317 1 C1 AO £22,530

DFID does not support abortion as a method of will review all major spending areas. I have commissioned family planning. We believe the best way to eliminate a review of DFID bilateral and multilateral aid programmes unsafe abortion is to provide access to family planning to determine how we can achieve better value for money information, services and supplies and to ensure that for the taxpayer and accelerate progress towards the women have more control over the circumstances in Millennium Development Goals. which they have sex. In countries where abortion is The reviews will consider how UK aid can help legal, DFID will support programmes that make abortion expand access to basic services, including clean water, safe and accessible. In countries where it is illegal and sanitation, and health care, and how DFID can accelerate women are dying due to unsafe abortion, DFID will work on key priorities of malaria and maternal mortality. help make the consequences of unsafe abortion more Allocation of funding to health will be determined as widely understood and will consider supporting processes part of these reviews. of legal and policy reform. Iraq: Overseas Aid Health Services Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what projects in Iraq are International Development on what (a) projects, (b) being funded by his Department; what the budget of programmes and (c) other initiatives he expects the £6 each such project is; and if he will make a statement. billion his Department has allocated to global health to [4013] be spent. [4907] Mr Andrew Mitchell: Details of projects funded by Mr Andrew Mitchell: Over the coming months the the Department for International Development (DFID) Department for International Development (DFID) in Iraq are provided in the following table.

Name Duration of Project Budget (£)

Iraq Infrastructure Services Programme (MSP)—repairing power and water infrastructure June 2005 to July 2010 34,664,000 in southern Iraq. Development Partnerships in Higher Education (DelPHE) Iraq September 2009 to March 2012 3,000,000 Technical Support for Iraq (TSI)—building effective government structures. July 2008 to March 2011 17,400,000 World Bank Private Sector Development (PSD) Trust Fund—improving conditions for September 2009 to September 2011 4,000,000 private sector development. Small Business Finance—loans programme in Basra. June 2009 to March 2011 1,380,000 Youth Employment Pilot Programme (YEPP) in Basra July 2009 to March 2011 985,647 Az Zubayr Water Treatment Plant (Phase One) in Basra. July to December 2010 610,000 Contribution to 2010 UNICEF Annual Humanitarian Appeal January to December 2010 2,500,000 Contribution to 2010 UNHCR Annual Humanitarian Appeal January to December 2010 1,500,000 Contribution to 2010 International Red Cross Humanitarian Appeal January to December 2010 1,000,000

The tri-departmental Conflict Pool’s Middle East programme is jointly managed by MOD, FCO and DFID. DFID is managing the following Conflict Pool project:

Name Duration of Project Budget (£)

Basra Governance Support Programme—strengthening Basra provincial functions and October 2009 to September 2010 900,000 structures.

CABINET OFFICE Mr Maude: The Queen visited the Cabinet Office in June 2010 to attend a meeting of permanent secretaries Admiralty House: Flags and to meet a number of those civil servants who had recently been engaged in the process of forming a new Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Minister for the Government. The character of this engagement did not Cabinet Office for what reasons the Royal Standard automatically suggest that the Royal Standard should was not hoisted at Admiralty House on the occasion of have been flown: neither the Cabinet Office nor Buckingham the visit of Her Majesty the Queen in June 2010. [4542] Palace requested it. 525W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 526W

As a general rule, the Royal Standard is flown in the Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office Structural Reform United Kingdom when the Queen is in residence in one Plan, published on 15 June 2010, included a commitment of the Royal Palaces, on the Queen’s car on official to publish all new central Government tender documents journeys and on aircraft (when on the ground). It may above £10,000 on a single website free of charge, as part also be flown on any building, official or private (but of the Government’s transparency commitments. not ecclesiastical buildings), during a visit by the Queen, A Public Sector Transparency Board has been established if the owner or proprietor so requests. in the Cabinet Office. As Minister for the Cabinet Office Departmental Manpower I chair the Board. The Board’s role will include providing support to Departments as they deliver their transparency commitments. Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what discussions he has had with the UK Guidance will be issued to Departments on how this Statistics Authority on (a) the publication by his commitment should be implemented. Department of figures relating to non-payroll staff and In the meantime, Government Departments are currently (b) the application of the provisions of the Statistics encouraged to publish all new tender opportunities and Registration Service Act 2007 to that publication; above £20,000 on: and if he will make a statement. [4554] www.supply2.gov.uk Above defined value thresholds, there is a requirement Mr Maude: I discussed (a) the publication by my to publish contract notices in the Official Journal of Department of figures relating to non-payroll staff and the EU. (b) the application of the provisions of the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 to that publication Mr Timpson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet with the National Statistician prior to their publication. Office what progress has been made towards awarding The purpose of this discussion was to clarify the scope 25 per cent. of Government contracts to small and of the management data collection exercise and its medium-sized businesses. [4846] relationship with official statistics. Departmental Mobile Phones Mr Maude: The Office of Government Commerce and BIS are working together to establish the baseline and put together a plan to address the issue. Mark Tami: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for West Bromwich East of 14 June 2010, Official Report, column 329W, on departmental mobile telephones, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT what the (a) purchase cost of the handset, (b) network provider, (c) type of tariff and (d) name of the Housing: Greater London supplier was in respect of the BlackBerry devices issued to (i) himself, (ii) the Deputy Prime Minister and (iii) Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for the Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform. Communities and Local Government how many and [4064] what proportion of new homes built in (a) Tottenham constituency, (b) the London Borough of Haringey Mr Maude: The network provider for the Cabinet and (c) London were affordable in each year since Office Blackberries provided to Ministers is Vodafone, 1990. [4297] the tariff is team work and blackberry and the supplier is Fujitsu. The Blackberries are provided as part of a Andrew Stunell: Statistics on house building and departmental contract the costs of which will be available affordable housing supply are not collected at constituency when the Department’s resource accounts for the financial level. The table presents the available data on the number year have been fully audited and laid before Parliament. of new build completions and the number of newly Government Departments: ICT built affordable homes in the London borough of Haringey and across Greater London as a whole. The proportion of new build homes that were affordable should be Dr Pugh: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office interpreted with care as the estimates are taken from what plans he has to increase the efficiency of the different data sources and therefore may not be directly arrangements for disposal, resale and refreshment of comparable. Government ICT equipment. [4338] It should also be noted that not all affordable housing Mr Maude: Work to increase the efficiency of the is provided through new-build completions as supply disposal, resale and refreshment of Government ICT can also come from the acquisition and refurbishment equipment will be taken forward by the Efficiency and of private sector homes. In 2008-09, for example, a total Reform Group as part of this Government’s commitment of 12,890 additional affordable homes were provided in to centralise the procurement of commodity goods and London. services across Government. Affordable new build Percentage Government Departments: Procurement Total completions completions affordable Haringey London Haringey London London

Mr Timpson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 1991-92 * 17,080 180 3,070 — Office what progress has been made towards publishing 1992-93 * 14,430 410 6,700 — Government tenders in full online and free of charge. 1993-94 * 14,630 400 7,720 — [4845] 1994-95 * 15,120 370 9,250 — 527W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 528W

Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Affordable new build Percentage Total completions completions affordable Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Haringey London Haringey London London Written Ministerial Statement of 10 June 2010, Official Report, columns 15-17WS, on the local government 1995-96 * 16,290 420 9,770 — savings package, if he will (a) undertake and (b) 1996-97 * 12,650 190 6,850 — publish an impact assessment on the effect of in-year 1997-98 * 13,620 100 4,920 36 reductions in funding for local authorities on each (i) 1998-99 * 14,430 90 4,890 34 local authority and (ii) region. [4311] 1999- * 13,680 100 4,410 32 2000 Robert Neill: Tackling the UK’s record deficit is the 2000-01 * 14,490 120 4,850 33 Government’s top priority and we believe that it is right 2001-02 * 13,930 150 5,000 36 that local authorities make a contribution to the efficiency 2002-03 * 15,670 100 4,420 28 savings of £6.2 billion in 2010-11. We have adopted a 2003-04 * 19,390 300 6,010 31 fair approach to the reductions in grants and funding 2004-05 * 24,060 200 6,430 27 streams and have limited the amount individual authorities 2005-06 * 18,810 450 7,460 40 lose. The impact on their area of the reductions in 2006-07 * 22,760 240 10,190 45 grants this year will be for local authorities to decide. 2007-08 870 22,160 280 11,090 50 We have ensured that councils are able to deliver essential 2008-09 * 19,330 250 8,600 44 frontline services by making no changes to the £29 billion 2009-10 * 19,470 * * * they receive through Formula Grant and by increasing * = data not available. Rounded to nearest 10 units. flexibility for local spending decisions through removing Source: CLG Official Statistics on house building and gross affordable housing supply. restrictions on how they spend their money. The next CLG Affordable Housing statistical release Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for containing figures for 2009-10 is scheduled to be published Communities and Local Government what in the autumn of 2010. consideration he has given to the merits of relaxing the Local Government Finance Audit Commission’s requirement on local authorities to appoint named auditors; and what assessment he has made of the compatibility of that requirement with Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State for his Department’s policies on best value. [4506] Communities and Local Government pursuant to the written ministerial statement of 10 June 2010, Official Robert Neill: Following my instructions to the Audit Report, columns 15-17WS, on the local government Commission and five other local inspectorates to stop savings package, what discussions he has had with Comprehensive Area Assessment, we are looking further representatives of community and third sector at local government audit and inspection in pursuit of organisations on the effect on Nottingham of our priorities for localism and cutting local government reductions in funding to (a) the Connecting inspection. Communities programme, (b) the Cohesion programme and (c) the Prevent programme. [4308] Local Government Finance: Working Neighbourhood Fund Andrew Stunell: The Secretary of State has had no meetings with representatives of the voluntary and Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for community sector in Nottingham regarding the savings Communities and Local Government pursuant to the package and Cohesion and Prevent programmes. written ministerial statement of 10 June 2010, Official Report, columns 15-17WS, on the local government Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State for savings package, what estimate he has made of the Communities and Local Government pursuant to the change to the level of funding allocated by his Written Ministerial Statement of 10 June 2010, Official Department to the Working Neighbourhood Fund in Report, columns 15-17WS, on the local government each local authority in 2010. [4584] savings package, what assessment he has made of the Robert Neill: The Working Neighbourhoods Fund is effect of the reduction in funding allocated to the paid as part of Area Based Grant. All local authorities Working Neighbourhoods Fund on plans to tackle that are eligible for Working Neighbourhoods Fund worklessness in Nottingham. [4309] have received a reduction in their Area Based Grant funding for 2010-11. Robert Neill: The Working Neighbourhoods Fund is paid as part of Area Based Grant. All local authorities Paying Working Neighbourhoods Fund through Area that are eligible for Working Neighbourhoods Fund Based Grant gives councils the flexibility to take decisions have received a reduction in their Area Based Grant locally on how to deliver the savings needed while funding for 2010-11. This includes Nottingham, which protecting essential frontline services. Where revenue this financial year will receive a Working Neighbourhoods grants to local authorities have been reduced, no local Fund allocation of over £11 million. authority will face a reduction of more than 2% overall in their main revenue grants. Paying Working Neighbourhoods Fund through Area Based Grant gives councils the flexibility to take decisions Local Government Services locally on how to deliver the savings needed while protecting essential frontline services. Where revenue Mr Timpson: To ask the Secretary of State for grants to local authorities have been reduced, no local Communities and Local Government what steps he authority will face a reduction of more than 2% overall plans to take to encourage the running of local public in their main revenue grants. services by local people. [4844] 529W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 530W

Greg Clark: The Government’s broad plans are set Non-domestic Rates: Garages and Petrol Stations out in ‘The Coalition: our programme for Government’, and more detailed proposals will be published in the Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State Decentralisation and Localism Bill in the autumn, after for Communities and Local Government what we have consulted informally with all those with an assessment has been made of the merits of (a) freezing interest across the sectors. and (b) capping increases in business rates arising from Local Government: Referendums the April 2010 rating revaluation for (i) petrol stations and (ii) other businesses. [4301]

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: A transitional relief scheme was introduced Communities and Local Government what progress he on 1 April 2010 which limits the annual increases in bills has made on his proposals to give residents the power for those ratepayers facing large rises as a result of the to instigate local referendums on local issues. [4632] 2010 revaluation. The transitional relief scheme applies to all sectors including petrol filling stations. The new Robert Neill: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Government are aware of concerns about large increases given by my hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove in rateable value for petrol stations and will be looking (Andrew Stunell) to the hon. Member for Nottingham to meet representatives of the industry to discuss their East (Chris Leslie) on 8 June, Official Report, column concerns. 132W. Offices: Expenditure Mortgages: Government Assistance John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what items of Communities and Local Government what estimate he new furniture and fittings have been purchased for the has made for the number of people who have received office of each Minister in his Department since 6 May support from the (a) Support for Mortgage scheme, 2010; and at what cost. [4533] (b) Mortgage Rescue scheme and (c) Homeowner Support scheme in the last (i) three, (ii) six and (iii) 12 Grant Shapps: No items of new furniture and fittings months. [4168] have been purchased for ministerial offices in Communities and Local Government since 6 May 2010. Grant Shapps [holding answer 24 June 2010]: As at November 2009 the number of people in receipt of Planning Permission: Blackpool Support for Mortgage Interest was 225,000. Mortgage Rescue Scheme summary monitoring statistics Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for are published on a quarterly basis on the Department’s Communities and Local Government what website. Latest figures show as at the end of March consideration he gave to the provisions of (a) Planning 2010 629 households have completed the full process to Policy Guidance note 13: Transport, (b) Planning remain in their homes, in most cases as social tenants. Policy Guidance note 17: Planning, Open Space, Sport The previous Government’s target for the scheme was and Recreation and (c) Planning Policy Statement to help up to 6,000 of the most vulnerable families note 9: Biodiversity and Geological Conservation in his avoid repossession. (DCLG Press Release, 2 September decision not to call in development application to 2008). Blackpool Borough Council, No. 09/0740, for his own It was announced on 14 June 2010 that since the determination. [4549] launch of the Homeowners Mortgage Support Scheme in April 2009, 34 households had been accepted onto Robert Neill: The decision not to call in the application the scheme to the end of April 2010. The previous was made in the knowledge that all the matters which Government’s target was to help 15,500 a year over the relate to this application were initially considered and next two years. (DCLQ ‘Impact Assessment of assessed by Blackpool council, as referred to in detail in Homeowners Mortgage Support’, 21 April 2009, p.10). their committee report. Following its referral, careful consideration was given to the relevant planning issues Non-domestic Rates which fall under the national planning policies which you refer, together with the representations received. Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for Having regard to his policy on call in, the Secretary of Communities and Local Government pursuant to the State then decided not to call-in the application as there answer of 22 June 2010, Official Report, column 162W, was not sufficient conflict with national planning policies on non-domestic rates, whether he plans to provide PPG13 and 17 and PPS9 on those matters. In arriving additional relief following the late billing of the at his decision the Secretary of State has also had business rates for new start-ups during financial year regard to the proposed planning conditions in particular 2009-10; and if he will make a statement. [4785] relating to flooding, amenities, natural habitats/ecology. He also took into considerations proposed legal agreements Robert Neill: There is no specific relief applicable to and financial contributions in relation to highways, ratepayers who receive late business rate bills and I have open space and other provisions. no plans to introduce one. However, depending on their circumstances, ratepayers may be eligible for a variety Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for of reliefs. In addition, we are doubling the level of small Communities and Local Government what business rate relief in England for one year, from 1 October consideration he gave to representations made by 2010. Lancashire County Council that development 531W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 532W application No. 09/0740 to Blackpool Borough Council Regeneration: Newcastle would be contrary to Planning Policy Statement note 9: Biodiversity and Geological Conservation, in deciding Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for not to call in the application. [4550] Communities and Local Government if he will provide support for the continuation of the Bridging Newcastle Robert Neill: The Secretary of State has taken account Gateshead programme funded by the Pathfinder of all the representations made, including those from Budget in the same form as the previous Lancashire county council, on the issues raised in the administration. [4796] context of PPS9-Biodiversity and Geological Conservation. Having considered the assessment provided in the council’s Andrew Stunell: The Housing Market Renewal committee report and in the applicant’s supporting Programme was included in the £6.2 billion of savings Environmental Statement, the Secretary of State is of from Government spending in 2010-11 announced on the view that those issues do not appear to be in 24 May. The budget for 2010-11 announced in December significant conflict with PPS9 considerations. He is 2009 has been reduced by £50 million. The mechanism satisfied that the proposed planning conditions and by which this reduction is achieved has been subject to other mitigating measures relating to natural habitats/ consultation and individual allocations for 2010-11 will ecology are adequate in safeguarding protected species be confirmed shortly.The long-term plans for programmes, and to minimise any harmful impact on biodiversity. including HMR, will be set out by Government after the spending review later this year. Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what account he Renewable Energy: Planning Permission took in reaching his decision not to call in the development plans submitted to Blackpool Borough Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Council, reference 09/0740, of (a) the concerns of Communities and Local Government when he intends Blackpool Transport over the adequacy of public to make the necessary amendments to the provisions of transport provision for the proposed development and the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted (b) the provisions of Planning Policy Guidance 13 on Development) Order 1995 to add air source heat Transport. [4691] pumps and small-scale wind turbines to the list of permitted developments. [4736] Robert Neill: The Secretary of State has given considerations to all the representations made, including Robert Neill: The Government are considering the those from Blackpool Transport, on the issues raised in policy options for amending the Town and Country the context of PPG 13—Transport. He has taken account Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995 of the assessment of those issues provided in the council’s in respect of small-scale wind turbines and air source committee report and in the applicant’s supporting heat pumps. Informed by the responses to a recent Transport Statement. While the issues relating to public public consultation, we intend to announce key decisions transport and any highway improvements remain a and the way forward shortly. matter for the highway authority’s considerations, however in this case there are proposals relating to improvements to highways and public transport provision which are DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER subject to legal agreements. In the circumstances no Constituencies issues would appear to be in significant conflict with PPG 13 considerations. Alun Michael: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister Public Houses what amendments to legislation governing devolution he plans to propose in order to implement his Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for proposals to establish fewer constituencies with more Communities and Local Government if he will take equal populations. [4516] steps to ensure provision of business, legal and financial advice and support to members of local Mr Harper: Proposals to implement this aspect of the communities wishing to run local public houses as a coalition agreement are being carefully considered within mutual, co-operative or social enterprise; and if he will Government. Details will be announced in due course make a statement. [2513] and Parliament will have the opportunity to debate them. Andrew Stunell: Members of local communities wishing to take over their local public house as a mutual, Departmental Official Cars co-operative or social enterprise can approach the Mr Watson: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister how independent Asset Transfer Unit, which is funded by many Government (a) cars and (b) drivers are Communities and Local Government to provide generic allocated to Ministers in his Office. [291] advice on business planning, technical and financial matters relating to the transfer of assets to community The Deputy Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member management and ownership. We are currently reviewing to the answer given by the Minister for the Cabinet what further support can be offered to support the Office on 28 June 2010, Official Report, column 446W. community ownership of public houses, within the context of the Government’s decision to reassess spending approvals Mr Watson: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister how granted between 1 January 2010 and the general election many civil servants in the Privy Council Office are to ensure that they offer good value for money and are entitled to the use of (i) a car with a dedicated driver, consistent with the Government’s priorities. A further (ii) a car from the Government car pool and (iii) a taxi statement will be made in due course. ordered through a departmental account. [3195] 533W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 534W

The Deputy Prime Minister: No civil servants in the Mr Harper: As set out in the coalition agreement, the Privy Council Office have a dedicated Government car Government are committed to bringing forward legislation or driver. to introduce power of recall. We are currently considering As was the case under the previous Administration, what would be the fairest, most appropriate and robust civil servants may use a taxi or car from the Government procedure. car pool in properly defined circumstances.

Electoral Register BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Business: EU Law Graham Evans: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what plans he has to bring forward proposals for Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for individual voter registration. [4360] Business, Innovation and Skills when his Department last made an estimate of the cost of EU regulations to Mr Harper: The Government are committed to speeding British businesses. [4818] up the implementation of Individual Voter Registration and are currently considering the options for this. We Mr Prisk: The last estimate of the cost of EU regulation will set out our plans in due course to British businesses made by this Department was contained in the second Forward Regulatory Programme published in April 2010. This shows that, at that time, Chris Ruane: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister how the proportion of new regulatory costs stemming from much was spent on the registration of elections by local the EU between April 2010 and April 2011 was about authorities in England in each of the last 10 years. 31% of the total. [4361] This Department has not estimated the overall cost of either all EU regulation or domestic regulation on Robert Neill: I have been asked to reply. British businesses, because to do so would involve The net current expenditure on the registration of disproportionate expenditure. electors by local authorities in England in each of the last 10 years is tabled as follows. Business: Scotland

£000 Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many businesses in 1999-2000 43,361 (a) Rutherglen and Hamilton West constituency, (b) 2000-011 n/a South Lanarkshire council area and (c) Scotland have 2001-02 44,341 participated in the Working Capital Scheme since its 2002-03 48,366 inception. [4333] 2003-04 49,321 2004-05 54,105 Mr Prisk: The Working Capital Scheme (WCS) was 2005-06 57,169 launched last year to provide guarantees for banks: 2006-07 63,968 individual businesses were not eligible to apply for these 2007-08 64,996 guarantees. No further guarantees will be available under 2008-09 67,560 the WCS although existing guarantees will be honoured. 1 Separate information is not available for 2000-01 as it is included East of England Development Agency within the central services to the public. Note: Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Figures from 2003-04 onwards are collected on a Financial Reporting Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of the Standard (FRS) 17 basis consequently comparisons between FRS 17 East of England Development Agency’s allocated and non-FRS17 may not be valid. capital programme expenditure was spent in each year Source: since its inception. [4816] Communities and Local Government Revenue Outturn (RO) returns Mr Prisk: Each year regional development agencies Chris Ruane: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what (RDAs) are given capital allocations for the year and assessment he has made of the merits of using bar have flexibility to swap with other regions up to the year coding on electoral registration forms to assist with end. There are also a large number of cases where initial electoral registration. [4364] capital allocations were changed in-year as RDAs’ responsibilities have changed over time or cuts to capital Mr Harper: The Government have not made such an budgets made. We do not, therefore, have a historic assessment. The effectiveness of bar coding as an aid to record of an individual region’s spend on capital compared electoral registration is a matter for individual Electoral to their initial allocations. Registration Officers to determine. Environment Protection

Members: Conduct Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister of 16 June 2010, Official Report, column 456W, on what progress he has made on proposals to introduce a environmental protection, what his definition of power for electors to recall their Member of environmental goods and services his Department uses. Parliament. [4709] [4618] 535W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 536W

Mr Davey: In my answer of 16 June I noted that one partnership requests from Israel since 1 April 2008 to date by of the main difficulties in taking forward the environmental delivering 13 reports in total in the following categories: five in negotiations in the Doha Round has been agreeing a Information Technology Electronics and Communications, three definition. In general, environmental goods and services in Performance Engineering Materials Energy and Environment, and five in Life Sciences. Within these reports 215 UK organisations include those which contribute to the achievement of were contacted about the specific partnership opportunity, and national and international environmental priorities including 15 expressed a direct interest in opening dialogue with the Israeli the mitigation of climate change, and the implementation organisations in question to discuss the technical details and of Multilateral Environmental Agreements. More potential collaborations. specifically, the European Union, together with partners, To attract a continuing high level of quality foreign has produced a list of goods to fulfil the Doha Declaration direct investment the net cost globally for 2007-08 was objective on environmental goods—JOB(09)/132. I believe £32,581,000 and for 2008-09 £31,869,000—Departmental that this list provides a good basis for an agreement in Report and Resources Accounts published on: this area. I will place a copy of JOB(09)/132 in the www.ukti.gov.uk Libraries of the House. Information on annual expenditure on investments from On environmental services, we are working to encourage Israel is unavailable due to the difficulty of disaggregating new commitments in the following areas: these figures. sewage and waste water services; refuse disposal services; Further Education sanitation services; cleaning of exhaust gases; Glenda Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for noise abatement services; and Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he plans to take to assist into further education those ineligible for nature and landscape protection services. funding support for study at further educational colleges on grounds of age; and if he will make a Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [4026] Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has to increase the level of support provided by UK Trade Mr Hayes: Full funding of tuition is provided for and Investment for UK-based companies that develop those aged 16 to 18 and for adult (19+) learners undertaking and export innovative low carbon technologies. [4687] basic literacy and numeracy qualifications (Skills for Life), their first full Level 2 (equivalent to 5 GCSEs Mr Prisk: UK Trade and Investment is refocusing its grade A*-C) or their first full Level 3 (A-level or equivalent) effort to build the UK’s reputation globally as a partner for those aged 19-24. Full funding is also provided for of choice for low carbon business. At least a third of adult learners in receipt of income-based benefits. activities provided sectorally to business by UK Trade and Investment’s head office this year will focus on Support for tuition of courses which are not the first business opportunities for UK companies with low full qualification for that learner at that level is provided carbon solutions. through co-funding, at the level of 50% with a 50% contribution expected from the individual or employer. Recent UK Trade and Investment commissioned research has identified China, India, US and Brazil as representing Some adult learning is not eligible for funding by the the greatest immediate opportunity for UK-based Skills Funding Agency. If an adult is accessing education companies with low carbon solutions. UK Trade and for which they are expected to make a contribution to Investment will, in addition to supporting UK companies the costs, either in part or in full, then they have access, in other markets, prioritise these markets for increased subject to bank lending conditions, to Professional and activities such as trade missions and meet the buyer Career Development Loans. events on low carbon business opportunities. Colleges and training organisations administer Discretionary Learner Support, which provides funding Foreign Investment in UK: Israel to all learners aged 16+, in exceptional circumstances, and which covers additional costs such as transport Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for rather than fees. Business, Innovation and Skills what assistance his Department provides to Israeli businesses wishing to Further Education: Wales (a) invest in the UK and (b) take part in joint ventures with UK companies; how much was made available for Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for these purposes in each of the last two years; and if he Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the written will make a statement. [4330] ministerial statement of 21 June 2010, Official Report, columns 1-2WS, on further education investment, what Mr Prisk: The information requested is as follows. the Barnett consequentials for Wales are of the (a) UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) is the Government measures announced. [4394] organisation that leads on attracting Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) into the UK. It provides consistently excellent, highly Mr Hayes: On 24 May, as part of the Chancellor of professional service throughout the investment process and uses the Exchequer’s statement on the £6 billion of efficiency the global network of embassies, high commissions and consulates to assist targeted, high quality investment to come to the UK, savings to be realised in 2010-11, it was announced that including investment from Israel. £50 million would be re-prioritised from Train to Gain (b) UKTI R&D Partnerships can help organisations including to further education capital. On 21 June, Government Israeli businesses, interested in forming different types of partnership, made a further announcement setting out the details for one of which is a joint venture, involving research and development how this additional money would be reallocated to (R&D) or innovation activity. R&D Partnerships has supported support a range of capital infrastructure projects prioritising 537W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 538W those colleges who have not previously benefited Office for Life Sciences significantly from further education capital investment. The Barnett formula was applied to these recycled Penny Mordaunt: To ask the Secretary of State for savings, which were included in the Welsh Assembly Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for Government figures also announced as part of 24 May the future of the Office for Life Sciences; and if he will statement. The Barnett consequential for Wales of the make a statement. [4560] £200 million recycled savings was £11.6 million. Israel-British Business Council Mr Willetts [holding answer 28 June 2010]: The Office for Life Sciences (OLS) will continue to work to Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for improve the UK business environment for life sciences Business, Innovation and Skills how much was companies. This will be based on close and collaborative allocated by his Department to the Israel-Britain working between Ministers in the Department for Business, Business Council in each of the last two years; for what Innovation and Skills and the Department of Health, purposes; and if he will make a statement. [4331] and their officials. Mr Prisk: UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) sets One NorthEast aside £25,000 each year to support the work of the Israel-Britain Business Council (IBBC). £10,000 per Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State annum goes towards secretariat support for the Business for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what assessment Council, while £15,000 per annum is available to support he has made of the effects of the proposed abolition of initiatives aimed at helping British companies to win One NorthEast on the Passionate People Passionate business in key sectors in Israel; or at bringing more Places campaign; [4711] Israeli investment into the UK. Such initiatives have (2) what assessment he has made of the effects of the included awareness-raising events on export or investment proposed abolition of One NorthEast on the North opportunities and trade missions. East Productivity Alliance project. [4712] Mobile Phones: Competition Mr Prisk: We have invited local authority and business Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for leaders to work together and consider forming local Business, Innovation and Skills if he will bring forward enterprise partnerships to replace regional development proposals to reduce mobile telephone termination agencies. Local enterprise partnerships will provide the rates; and if he will make a statement. [4434] strategic leadership in their areas and set out local economic priorities. It will be for local enterprise Mr Vaizey: The determination of levels of mobile partnerships to decide which initiatives to support. termination rates (MTR) is a regulatory matter for The Government will publish a White Paper later in Ofcom. The process for determining the rates is set out the summer setting out plans for a new approach to in the Communications Act; it requires a market review sub-national growth. to be carried out and extensive stakeholder consultation. The current regime is due to expire on 31 March 2011 Overseas Trade: Israel and Ofcom have just concluded a second round of consultation on how rates should be calculated from 1 April next year. Ofcom will publish a statement in the Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for second half of this year setting out the new rates. Business, Innovation and Skills how much trade with Israel contributed to the UK’s gross domestic product The EU has recently recognised that the UK has one in each of the last two years; what recent discussions he of the lowest levels of MTR in Europe. Ofcom’s proposals has had since his appointment with his Israeli aim to reduce this by 85%—down from around 4.3p per counterpart on trade between the UK and Israel; and if minute now to 0.5p per minute by March 2015. This is he will make a statement. [4328] good news for consumers who will benefit from cheaper calls and increased competition. Mr Prisk: The benefits of international trade to gross Motor Vehicles: Manufacturing Industries domestic product (GDP) result from greater economic efficiency due to a combination of increased competition Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for in markets, relative comparative advantages, economies Business, Innovation and Skills how many cars were of scale, increased opportunities for learning, and greater purchased under the scrappage scheme in (a) incentives for innovation. Due to the difficulty of Rutherglen and Hamilton West constituency, (b) differentiating between the impact of trade and other South Lanarkshire Council area and (c) Scotland. factors on growth, it is not possible to quantify precisely [4335] the impact of trade with another country on GDP. The following table indicates the scale of UK trade in Mr Prisk: Using data based on the locations of goods and services with Israel for the years 2007 and dealerships and data for scrappage transactions which 2008 as a proportion of GDP: have been completed and vehicles delivered, there have been 109 completed scrappage transactions in Rutherglen 2007 2008 and Hamilton West constituency, 1,092 in the South Lanarkshire council area and 27,988 in Scotland. Due Percentage of UK GDP at market prices to the nature of the scheme, we will not have final data UK exports to Israel 0.12 0.13 on completed scrappage transactions until approximately UK imports from Israel 0.10 0.10 the beginning of September this year. 539W Written Answers29 JUNE 2010 Written Answers 540W

Geographical data for trade in 2009 are due to be Mr Prisk: The planned repayment period for the loan published at the end of July. to Sheffield Forgemasters was 14 years. The total planned I have not had any discussions with my Israeli counterpart repayment amount would be £110.9 million. since my appointment. Equity warrants would have provided an additional return to HMG the exact quantum of which would Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for have depended on the outcome of the project. Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he (a) has taken and (b) plans to take to increase trade between Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, the UK and Israel; how much his Department (i) has Innovation and Skills if he will publish representations spent since January 2010 and (ii) plans to spend during his Department received from individuals or groups on the next 12 months on the promotion of trade between the proposed loan to Sheffield Forgemasters between the UK and Israel; what recent representations he has 7 May and 17 June 2010. [4495] received on increasing trade between the UK and Israel; and if he will make a statement. [4329] Mr Prisk: The Department received a few representations from some MPs and members of the public over the Mr Prisk: UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) provides period 7 May to 17 June 2010. These have been responded a range of support services to British companies wishing directly to the constituency MPs concerned, or directly to trade with Israel, through commercial teams based in to the member of the public concerned. The Department both the UK and the British embassy in Tel Aviv. UKTI has also received confidentially one letter from a company support focuses, in particular, on business opportunities inquiring into the state aid position of the proposed in high technology sectors, including biotechnology, loan. The Department is prepared to publish the response health care, aerospace, information and communication to these letter, with the consent of the individuals, or technology, the environmental industries and financial organisations concerned, if that would be desirable. and legal services. UKTI supports the work of the Israel British Business Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Council (IBBC) and also manages a broad range of Innovation and Skills when Sheffield Forgemasters first activities aimed at boosting bilateral trade and investment, requested that his Department to provide a loan including trade missions to Israel, inward missions by facility. [4496] Israeli firms to trade fairs in the UK and promotional events aimed at encouraging Israeli companies to list in Mr Prisk: The initial application for support from London and do business which brings benefits to Britain. Sheffield Forgemasters for the Ultra Heavy Forging Capability was first formally received in September Examples of recent UKTI initiatives aimed at boosting 2008. business between Israel and the UK include a visit to Israel in May 2009 by the former Minister for Trade, Lord Davies; a British trade mission to the WATEC Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, water and environment trade fair and conference in Tel Innovation and Skills what discussions he had with Aviv in November 2009; a visit to Israel by UKTI’s Sheffield Forgemasters between 7 May and 17 June deputy chief executive in December 2009; and the 2010 on the proposed £80 million loan facility. [4497] promotion of business opportunities in Israel to over 450 UK companies in London, Manchester and the Mr Prisk: I can confirm that I have had no direct West Midlands through UKTI’s “Partner Middle East” discussions with Sheffield Forgemasters concerning the road shows in February 2010. Other activities of this proposed £80 million loan or their advisers between nature will follow over the coming 12 months. 7 May and 17 June. Information on annual expenditure on promoting Street Trading: Public Consultation trade with Israel is unavailable due to the difficulty of disaggregating these figures. Claire Perry: To ask the Secretary of State for There have been no recent representations on increasing Business, Innovation and Skills when he expects to business between the UK and Israel. publish the responses his Department has received to Sheffield Forgemasters: Finance the joint consultation on modernising street trading and pedlar legislation, and on draft guidance on the Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, current regime. [4812] Innovation and Skills what the planned repayment period was for the proposed loan to Sheffield Mr Davey: I expect to publish the responses we have Forgemasters which was withdrawn on 17 June 2010; received very shortly. and what the total planned repayment amount was, The Department will inform those who responded including interest payments. [4494] when the responses are available on the BIS Website.

3MC Ministerial Corrections29 JUNE 2010 Ministerial Corrections 4MC

The chair receives a remuneration of £81,718 per Ministerial Correction annum for three days a month and receives a pension. Under the RDA Act 1998 an RDA board must have Tuesday 29 June 2010 15 members with the majority being business positions. Letter of correction from Mr Mark Prisk: In my reply of 17 June to the question from the hon. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Member for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher) I said “The Chair receives a remuneration of £81,718 Per Advantage West Midlands annum for three days a month and receives a pension.” I regret that due to an administrative error this is Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for incorrect and the answer should have indicated that the Business, Innovation and Skills how many people are Chair receives the same remuneration for three days a employed by Advantage West Midlands; how many week. people compose the non-executive Board of Advantage The correct answer should have been: West Midlands; and what the total cost to the public purse of payments to (a) employees and (b) Board Mr Prisk: The following tables show: members is to date. [2852] (a) Number of and cost of employees [Official Report, 17 June 2010, Vol. 511, c. 530W.] Number/£ Mr Prisk: The following tables show: Number of employees headcount (full-time 346 equivalent (322)) (a) Number of and cost of employees Cost (£) 18,358,000 Number/£

Number of employees headcount (full-time 346 Staff numbers are as at the snapshot reference date equivalent (322)) 31 March 2010 and cost is for the financial year 2009-10. Cost (£) 18,358,000 Costs for payroll employees are defined as pay bill i.e. salary, ERNICs and pension; and Staff numbers are as at the snapshot reference date (b) Number of and cost of board members 31 March 2010 and cost is for the financial year 2009-10. Number/£ Costs for payroll employees are defined as pay bill i.e. salary, ERNICs and pension; and Number of board members (including chair) 15 Cost (£) 231,412 (b) Number of and cost of board members Number/£ Board member costs are from the 2008-09 financial Number of board members (including chair) 15 year and include chair pension costs and board travel Cost (£) 231,412 expenses. Board members now receive a remuneration of £8,666 per annum for minimum of two days per Board member costs are from the 2008-09 financial month with no pension entitlement. year and include chair pension costs and board travel The chair receives a remuneration of £81,718 per expenses. Board members now receive a remuneration annum for three days a week and receives a pension. of £8,666 per annum for minimum of two days per Under the RDA Act 1998 an RDA board must have month with no pension entitlement. 15 members with the majority being business positions.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 29 June 2010

Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH...... 697 HEALTH—continued Alcohol Health Warnings...... 706 NHS Decision Making...... 707 Autism ...... 709 NHS Dentists (Chesterfield) ...... 700 Cancer ...... 697 NHS Targets ...... 698 Cancer Surgeons ...... 703 NHS Targets ...... 701 Cigarette Packaging ...... 709 NICE ...... 711 Community Hospital (Eltham) ...... 705 Topical Questions ...... 711 Healthy Eating ...... 703 Waiting Times...... 708 Long-term Care ...... 710 Warrington Hospital...... 710 Low Vision...... 702 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 29 June 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 34WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 38WS Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 34WS Police Reform ...... 38WS

TRANSPORT ...... 39WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 34WS Vehicle and Operator Services Agency ...... 39WS Planning Reform...... 34WS TREASURY ...... 33WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Child Trust Fund Regulations...... 33WS AFFAIRS...... 36WS Finance Bill 2010 ...... 34WS Arm’s-length Bodies ...... 36WS Terrorist Finance Tracking Programme (EU-US Agreement) ...... 33WS

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 37WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 39WS Foreign and Commonwealth Office: Programmes.. 37WS The Work Programme...... 39WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 29 June 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 534W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Business: EU Law ...... 534W continued Business: Scotland ...... 534W Local Government Finance: Working East of England Development Agency ...... 534W Neighbourhood Fund...... 528W Environment Protection...... 534W Local Government: Referendums ...... 529W Foreign Investment in UK: Israel...... 535W Local Government Services...... 528W Further Education ...... 536W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 529W Further Education: Wales ...... 536W Non-domestic Rates...... 529W Israel-British Business Council...... 537W Non-domestic Rates: Garages and Petrol Stations . 530W Mobile Phones: Competition ...... 537W Offices: Expenditure...... 530W Motor Vehicles: Manufacturing Industries...... 537W Planning Permission: Blackpool ...... 530W Office for Life Sciences...... 538W Public Houses ...... 531W One NorthEast...... 538W Regeneration: Newcastle ...... 532W Overseas Trade: Israel ...... 538W Renewable Energy: Planning Permission...... 532W Sheffield Forgemasters: Finance...... 539W Street Trading: Public Consultation ...... 540W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 463W Elgin Marbles ...... 463W Football: South Africa ...... 463W CABINET OFFICE...... 523W Olympic Games 2012: Lambeth...... 463W Admiralty House: Flags...... 523W Olympic Games 2012: North West...... 464W Departmental Manpower...... 525W Olympic Games 2012: Triathlon Homes...... 467W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 525W Olympic Games 2012: Wigan...... 467W Government Departments: ICT ...... 525W Sports: Facilities...... 468W Government Departments: Procurement ...... 525W DEFENCE...... 475W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 526W Armed Forces: Casualties ...... 475W Housing: Greater London...... 526W Armed Forces: Rescue Services ...... 476W Local Government Finance ...... 527W Chiefs of Staff...... 477W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE—continued HEALTH—continued Defence: Procurement...... 480W Herbal Medicines: EU Law...... 518W Departmental Manpower...... 481W Hospitals: Buildings...... 519W Departmental Ministerial Advisers ...... 481W Long-Term Neurological Conditions ...... 514W Departmental Official Residences ...... 482W Medical Equipment ...... 519W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 482W Mumps: Vaccination ...... 520W European Defence Agency...... 482W Muscular Dystrophy ...... 520W Navy: Officers ...... 483W NHS: ICT ...... 520W Red Arrows...... 483W North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 483W Trust ...... 520W Quarrying: Health Hazards...... 521W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 532W Waiting Times...... 515W Constituencies...... 532W Warrington Primary Care Trust: Finance...... 522W Departmental Official Cars...... 532W Work Capability: Fluctuating Conditions ...... 515W Electoral Register...... 533W Young Children...... 514W Members: Conduct ...... 533W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 508W EDUCATION...... 485W Community Policing ...... 508W Academies: Dudley ...... 485W Crime...... 508W Building Schools for the Future Programme ...... 485W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 508W Building Schools for the Future Programme: Passports: Biometrics...... 509W Coventry ...... 486W Speed Limits: Cameras...... 509W Childline: Finance...... 486W Theft: Electronic Equipment...... 510W Children in Care: Cheshire...... 486W Departmental Contracts ...... 486W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 469W Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 487W House of Commons Staff: Costs...... 469W Departmental Official Cars...... 487W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 487W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 521W Departmental Reorganisation...... 488W Departmental Buildings...... 521W Foster Care ...... 488W Family Planning...... 522W Grammar Schools...... 488W Health Services ...... 523W Schools: Anti-Semitism...... 488W Iraq: Overseas Aid ...... 524W Schools: Management...... 488W JUSTICE...... 496W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 493W Prison Sentences: Wales ...... 496W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 493W Energy: Billing ...... 494W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 468W Energy Subsidy Reform ...... 494W Departmental Official Cars...... 468W Radioactive Waste: Waste Management...... 494W Devolution...... 469W Renewable Energy...... 495W Irish Language: Finance ...... 469W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 495W Public Expenditure...... 469W Wales ...... 496W PRIME MINISTER ...... 484W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Afghanistan ...... 484W AFFAIRS...... 484W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 484W SCOTLAND...... 470W Food: EU Trade ...... 484W Electoral Register...... 470W Water Charges: VAT ...... 485W Fossil Fuel Levy...... 470W Future Jobs Fund...... 471W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 511W Video Games...... 471W Armed Conflict: Diamonds ...... 511W European Parliament ...... 511W TRANSPORT ...... 472W Kyrgyzstan: Violence...... 511W Crossrail Line...... 472W Languages: GCSE...... 512W Departmental Manpower...... 472W Languages: Higher Education...... 512W East Coast Railway Line: Franchises ...... 471W Palestinians: International Assistance ...... 512W Railways: Franchises ...... 473W South America: Organised Crime ...... 513W Railways: Overcrowding...... 473W United Nations: Reform ...... 513W Railways: Passengers...... 474W Road Traffic...... 474W HEALTH...... 514W Transport: Renewable Energy ...... 474W Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse...... 515W Transport: Sustainable Development ...... 474W Blood: Contamination ...... 516W Travel: Greater London...... 475W Cancer: Drugs...... 516W Combat Veterans: Mental Health ...... 515W TREASURY ...... 497W Commissioning Structures ...... 514W Bank Services: Fees and Charges ...... 497W Contaminated Blood and Blood Products Inquiry. 516W Capital Investment: Redcar...... 497W Dietary Supplements: EU Law...... 516W Child Tax Credit ...... 497W Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 517W Child Tax Credit: Scotland...... 498W Food: Pesticides ...... 517W Child Trust Fund: Hartlepool ...... 498W Healthcare-acquired Infections ...... 514W Departmental Official Cars...... 498W Healthy Child Programme ...... 514W Energy: Subsidies ...... 499W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY—continued TREASURY—continued Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation .. 499W Taxation: Business ...... 505W Green Investment Bank ...... 500W Taxation: Probate...... 506W Income Tax: Tax Allowances ...... 500W VAT ...... 506W Income Tax: Weaver Vale ...... 500W VAT: Great Yarmouth...... 506W Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander: Isle of Man .... 500W Working Tax Credit ...... 507W Personal Savings ...... 501W Poverty: Children ...... 501W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 483W Pregnant Women: Grants...... 502W Trade Unions ...... 483W Public Expenditure: Wales ...... 502W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 489W Public Expenditure: Yorkshire and the Humber..... 503W Disability Living Allowance...... 489W Public Finance ...... 503W Employment and Support Allowance: Bexley ...... 489W Research and Development Tax Credit ...... 504W Energy: Prices ...... 490W Revenue and Customs: Manpower...... 504W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Dewsbury...... 490W Sheffield Forgemasters: Finance...... 505W Pensioners: Poverty ...... 491W Tax Allowances...... 505W Poverty: Children ...... 491W Taxation: Aviation ...... 505W Social Security Benefits: Disability...... 492W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Tuesday 29 June 2010

Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 3MC Advantage West Midlands...... 3MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 6 July 2010

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PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN compiled by the House of Commons, giving details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. The Annual Subscription includes also automatic despatch of the Sessional Information Digest. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscriptions: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 512 Tuesday No. 23 29 June 2010

CONTENTS

Tuesday 29 June 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 697] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Health

Speaker’s Statement [Col. 717]

Opposition Day [2nd allotted day] Local Government Financing [Col. 722] Motion—(Mr. Denham)—on a Division, negatived Amendment—(Grant Shapps)—on a Division, agreed to Motion, as amended, agreed to

Bus Services (Milton Keynes) [Col. 836] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Housing Need (London) [Col. 174WH] Low Educational Attainment [Col. 199WH] North Wales Economy [Col. 207WH] Western Balkans [Col. 215WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 33WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 463W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 3MC]