United Nations FOURTH COMMITTEE, 1878th GENERAL MEETING ASSEMBLY Friday, 9 October 1970, at 3.35 p.m. TWENTY-FIFTH SESSION Official Records NEW YORK

Chairman: Mr. Vernon Johnson MWAANGA subjected to forcible removal from one place to another in (Zambia). order to provide room for the expansion of the European area. The means used for that purpose included deprivation of water and sanctions against sanitary arrangements. The In the absence of the Chairman, Mr. Sadry (Iran), new townships into which Africans were being squeezed Vice-Chairman, took the Chair. were tightly surrounded by barbed wire fences, with only one gate facing the city. Whenever they entered or left a township, residents were required to show twelve or more AGENDA ITEM 62 passes to the armed policemen stationed at the gate. The police had master keys which enabled them at any time of Question of Namibia (continued) the day or night to enter any premises in which they (A/8023/Add.2, A/C.4/127/Add.1 and 2) suspected an African of committing the criminal offence of allowing relatives or friends to stay with him for seventy­ HEARING OF PETITIONERS two hours. No African lawfully residing in a town by virtue of a permit issued to him was entitled to have his wife living 1. The CHAIRMAN recalled that at its 1875th and 1876th there with him. According to reliable sources, the death meetings the Committee had decided to grant a number of rate had tripled in the new townships as a result of requests for hearings concerning Namibia. He suggested that ill-health, suicides and murders. several petitioners should be heard at the present meeting. 5. In the rural areas, Africans were being removed from one reservation to another. The notorious Odendaal Com­ At the Chairman's invitation, Mr. Veiue N. Mbaeva and mission had been appointed in 1962 to study ways and Mr. Mburumba Kerina, representatives of the South West means of partitioning an insignificant, arid portion of Africa National United Front (SWANUF) (A/C4/727/ Namibia into reservations known as "homelands" for the Add. I}, and the Reverend Michael Scott, representative of respective African ethnic groups. The rest of the country, the International League for the Rights of Man ( A/C.4/ with its mineral resources, industries, farming areas and 727/Add.2}, took places at the Committee table. ports, would be annexed by . Moreover, the South African Parliament, interpreting the Constitution, 2. Mr. MBAEV A ( National United would retain broad powers in the homelands, leaving the Front (SWANUF)) said that it was a great honour for the so-called autonomies control of the courts in matters representatives of the Namibian people to be able to affecting "non-whites" only. All laws passed by the acquaint the Committee with the situation in Namibia, so-called assemblies of the various homelands would have to· which was deteriorating rapidly. SWANUF would continue have the assent of the South African President. Attention to do everything in its power to facilitate the work of the should be drawn to the fact that the racist colonial United Nations in its efforts to help the struggling people of Government of South Africa had now embarked on new the world, particularly the Namibian people, to attain programmes, through which it intended, by using new freedom and self-determination. methods, to implement all those recommendations. 3. By resolution 2145 (XXI) of 27 October 1966, the 6. The Ovamboland had been established General Assembly had terminated the Mandate exercised on with a population which was 99 per cent illiterate, socially behalf of His Britannic Majesty by the Government of the isolated and lacking any political maturity. According to Union of South Africa, which therefore no longer had the local newspapers, the head of that Bantustan, whose right to administer Namibia. By resolution 2248 (S-V) of external affairs were the responsibility of the South African 19 May 1967, the General Assembly had established the Government, opposed the struggle of the Namibian people United Nations Council for Namibia and had authorized it for freedom and self-determination. Okavango, which was to administer the Territory until independence, with the the next area to be converted into a Bantustan, was even maximum possible participation of the Namibian people. worse than Ovamboland from the point of view of political The United Nations Council for Namibia had not been able awareness. All its progressive leaders had been imprisoned to proceed to the Territory, as requested in resolution or killed by the or forced to flee to 2248 (S-V), because of the refusal of the colonial Govern­ the Republic of Zambia. The other peoples were being ment of South Africa and its condemnation of United forced to accept their and sometimes even to Nations resolutions relating to Namibia. change their nationality, in other words, to drop their own name in favour of the term Coloured, and to adopt 4. The situation in the Territory was going from bad to Afrikaans, the official language of the Boers. The Hereros, worse. In the urban areas, Africans were continually being who had resolutely rejected any type of Bantustan, were

25 A/C.4/SR.l878 ------26 General Assembly -Twenty-fifth Session - Fourth Committee the chief victims of the forcible measur ~s enacted by the of militant nationalism which South West Africa was colonial Government against the Namibian people. They experiencing at the present time. Throughout his life he had were being deprived of water in order to force them to fought to defend the rights of the Namibian people, leave their reserve. The South West AfriCI National United irrespective of their ethnic origins, and it was thanks to him Front (SWANUF), the only revolutionary movement which that the case of Namibia had been one of the most had tackled the problem of Namibia by halting dissension important questions to be brought before the United and uniting Namibian forces against thee 1emy, did not yet Nations and the International Court of Justice. He had enjoy the support of the international community, particu­ striven sincerely, prudently, selflessly and valiantly, without larly, the Organization of African Unit~· and the United lowering himself to petty matters which occasionally Nations. It needed such support in oder to unify the destroyed great causes. He had represented the homo­ Namibian people. The United Nations Council for Namibia, geneity of his people because he had identified himself with which was the legal Government of the Territory, could them and knew what they needed and what they expected provide the best possible means of unify .ng the Namibian of him. On 31 July 1970 SWANUF had sent the Herero people by convening a conference tc which all the people a message in which it had urged them to observe the Namibian liberation movements would be invited. It should traditional period of mourning, to unite in order to put an be noted that, if the Council had been able to enter end to the sufferings inflicted on them by the South Namibia, the first and foremost task incurr bent on it as one African Government and, after the period of mourning, of its responsibilities would have beer to organize a unanimously to elect a successor to Chief Kutako, a national convention. The Council's inability to enter the successor who would represent national unity and would Territory should not have prevented it f1 om beginning to follow in the footsteps of the father and hero of the discharge those of its responsibilities whic 1 were within its Namibian people. means, it should, in particular, convene a conference of Namibian representatives to decide on: tht~ participation of 10. On behalf of his colleagues, he expressed the shock the Namibian people in the work of the United Nations and sorrow felt by his people at the death of President Council for Namibia and in the discharge of the duties of Gamal Abdel Nasser of the United Arab Republic. He asked the Commissioner; the planning and oq anization of an the Chairman of the Committee to convey their condol­ effective educational and training programme for the ences to the people and Government of the United Arab Namibian people; and the support to be given to the Republic. liberation struggle of the Namibian people. 11. The history of South African racist rule in Namibia 7. SWANUF recommended that the proposed conference was one of the blackest pages in the history of European should be held at Lusaka, since the majority of Namibian colonization of the African continent. The treatment exiles were in Zambia. Those who proposed that it should inflicted on Namibians by the racist South African Govern­ be held in Europe were claiming to be participating in the ment was no different from that which his people had liberation struggle of the Namibian peo Jle in order to endured under the German Government. A Government obtain subsidies for their own ends at the expense of the which removed Namibians from their traditional lands by Namibian people and revolutionaries who were fighting on force to settle them in areas of the Namib and the Kalahari African soil. SWANUF was grateful for anr effort directed deserts and which continued to deny Namibians their towards the liberation of Namibia, but it thought that those fundamental human rights was unworthy to be a Member who wanted to contribute to its liberatior should consult of the United Nations and thus to share in the honour it instead of submitting their proposals dire ;t to the United enjoyed by all nations dedicated to the task of making the Nations. SWANUF had no intention of leav ng the question world a worthy place for all humanity. of Namibia for others to take up, nor did it intend to make Namibia a base for future military or political operations 12. SWANUF wished to show the world that , against neighbouring countries. which continued to be a subject of major concern to the United Nations, represented the depraved brutality of 8. In conclusion, he called on the Unil ed Nations to South African racism in the international territory of convene a conference of the Council for l'1amibia and Namibia. The South African Government continued to representatives of all the Namibian liberatioll movements to destroy the Namibian people because it feared those whom be held at Lusaka, and to urge all NamJ bian liberation it hated; those who propagated apartheid had no con­ movements to participate in it. science, because they did not wish to think. Their minds were warped and distorted by a futile and strange fanatical 9. Mr. KERINA (South West Africa Nation:tl United Front hatred of the African people in southern Africa. SWANUF (SWANUF)) thanked the Committee for giving him an considered that the South African Government bore the opportunity to speak on behalf of SWANlfF. It was with overwhelming responsibility for the situation. At times it deep sorrow that he informed the Committ !e of the death sympathized with the Afrikaners, who had been misled by of Chief Hosea Kutako at the age of one hur dred years. His the policy of apartheid of their Government which had death was a great loss to the Namibian people. The life of filled them with hatred for the African people. The the Chief, whose wisdom and physical strength had beer. liberation of Namibia from South African racist colonialism reflected in his deeds, was identified with a large part of the would be necessary to liberate the South African Govern­ written history of South West Africa. He had given his high ment from the yoke of apartheid. That must be done by office of national leadership a form which vras particularly putting an end to South Africa's illegal occupation of suited to his distinctly African talents and character. Chief Namibia and instituting United Nations authority in the Kutako, whom South Africans had, with bitterness at Territory. The creation of stable and representative govern­ times, termed "incorruptible", was responsible for the·era ment would consolidate the independence of Namibia, but 1878th meeting- 9 October 1970 27 that would be possible only if conditions were such as to treaties on African States. SW ANUF considered that there permit the development of an atmosphere of mutual were various steps that should be taken at different levels. confidence and security among the Namibian people. The First of all, it felt that no African Government should effects of a century of colonialism could not be minimized authorize the establishment of contacts with that Govern­ and the African people who had suffered under the South ment in any form whatever and it asked that South Africa African Government would continue to harbour feelings of should be suspended from membership of the United bitter hatred and mistrust. It had to be admitted, too, that Nations and the specialized agencies until such time as the South African Government's fear and hatred of Namibia was independent of South African colonial ad­ Namibians was likely to increase with the approach of ministration. freedom and independence. 16. SWANUF urged the Fourth Committee to authorize 13. SWANUF regarded the independence of Namibia as an the United Nations Council for Namibia to establish a essential condition for the reconstruction of the national sub-committee instructed to make an in-depth analysis of life of Namibians. It believed in the creative potentialities the presence of the Federal Republic of Germany in the of the Namibians, who, once they were free, would be able social, economic, cultural, political and educational affairs to develop their languages and thus better understand their of Namibia. The Government of the Federal Republic of African heritage; develop African legal thought in order Germany would of course claim that all Germans residing in best to express the intuitions, concepts and traditions Namibia were South African citizens who happened to be peculiar to the legal consciousness of Africa and the of German origin, an argument which was the classic reply. conditions in which they might be integrated into the new The number of German nationals residing in the Territory life of Narnibians; develop the study of African history in had increased, however, and their presence there was a order to appreciate to the utmost the greatness of the major factor in the formulation of South African racist African past and its contribution to the present and to the legislation and the consolidation of the illegal presence of formation of the Namibian national awareness; and develop the South African colonial regime in the Territory. The the political thought of the Namibian people so that they proposed analysis should enable the United Nations Council could create their own form of democracy and adapt it to for Namibia to draw up a programme of action against the the imperatives of their new responsibilities. detrimental effects of the presence of the Germans in Namibia. 14. SWANUF, reflecting the national will of the Namibian people, declared that its first objective was to obtain 17. On 26 August 1970 the o(fice of SWANUF at the effective political indeptndence for Namibia. The Namibian United Nations had addressed an important communication people were ready to accept the responsibilities of govern­ to the Secretary-General in which it had commented on the ment. It was not their intention to begin their life as an projected international conference on Namibia. SWANUF independent African State with a declaration of hostility had expressed serious reservations regarding the effective­ and animosity towards Europeans iri their country who ness and success of an international conference which wished to remain citizens of Namibia. The militant mem­ would not offer Namibians an opportunity to meet in order bers of SWANUF desired freedom for Namibia, which to resolve certain fundamental problems; it was precisely meant refusal of the South African Bantustans and refusal the presence of non-Namibians acting as international of the presence of South Africa in Namibia. The Bantustans experts which had served to impede the work of the United were contrary to life; Namibian manhood would never be Nations Council for Namibia. The experts in question were fulfilled through them. The bad will of South Africa could Europeans whose sole source of information was the not be denied; for example, when representatives of States African peoples, in respect of whom they claimed to be in East and Central Africa had drawn up the Lusaka experts and on whose misfortune they had built their Manifesto, 1 in which they had provided a new possibility professional careers. He asked whether there could be any for the peaceful solution of the problems of southern better experts on Namibia than the Namibians themselves, Africa, including that of Namibia, the South African ·and on Africa than the Africans themselves. Government had turned a deaf ear and had not even deigned to study the declaration. 18. In its recommendations concerning the convening of the conference, SW ANUF had asked that it should be 15. South Africa had decided to offer a so-called non­ convened by the Council for Namibia and that the theme of aggression pact to the African States. Unfortunately, at the the conference should place the emphasis on the Namibians same time it continued to threaten African Governments, as themselves; it had urged and it urged once again that the could be seen from a speech by Mr. Vorster, the South conference should be held at Lusaka. The point of holding African Prime Minister, in which he had said: "If terrorists an international conference was not to launch a publicity intruded into South Africa and then fled, we shall pursue campaign but to seek a solution to the problems of the them right into the countries whence they came". African Namibians. Governments could scarecely be expected to be convinced of South Africa's sincerity when, on the one hand, that 19. He expressed the gratitude of SWANUF to all the country refused to accept well-meaning declarations by the African Governments which had taken the risk of request­ African States and United Nations resolutions on Namibia ing an advisory opinion from the International Court of and, on the other hand, it sought to impose non-aggression Justice on certain legal issues arising from the illegal presence in Namibia of the South African colonial regime. During the past few months SWANUF had been encour­ 1 Manifesto on Southern Africa. For the text, see Official Records of the General Assembly, Twenty-fourth Session, Annexes, agenda aging African Governments Members of the United Nations item 106, document A/7754. to bring about the suspension of the South African 28 General A sst mbly - Twenty-fifth Session - Fourth Committee ------Government from the exercise of the rights and privileges important. The dispossessed and refugees did not count of membership, under Article 5 of the Cilarter. That was until they did something desperate such as hijacking aircraft the only way to force South Africa to give serious to call attention to their unendurable situation; and then consideration to the United Nations resolutions on Namibia explosives were rained down on their shanty towns and and to co-operate with the Organization. moral indignation was directed towards those acts of piracy which brought down luxury travellers to share the life of 20. In conclusion, he informed the Committee that, as a refugees in the desert. Furthermore, the small countries result of the death of Chief Hosea Kut 1ko, the Herero were imitating the big ones. If South Africa felt threatened people were in consultation regarding the election of their by African unity, it would supply arms and ammunition new leader. As soon as a leader had b'~en elected, the and money to the minorities in certain African States such United Nations Council for Namibia wo 1ld be informed as Nigeria. It would infiltrate liberation movements and officially. Lastly, he expressed SWANUF'~ appreciation of would seek to corrupt them or win them over. If it felt the work which the Council had performed during the past threatened by Arab unity, it would send arms and money year. to southern Sudan and Biafra. There were mercenaries in southern Sudan whose lives had been spared at the request 21. The Reverend Michael SCOTT (International League of the Organization of African Unity and the Pope on for the Rights of Man) recalled that a few months condition that they never returned to Africa. The United previously he had come to the United Nations to make Kingdom was supplying technicians and military advisers to certain proposals regarding Namibia to :he Council for the small Arab States in the Persian Gulf because oil cost Namibia and the Ad Hoc Sub-Committee of the Security 6 cents a barrel in Kuwait and 9 cents a barrel in Saudi Council which he had hoped to see in the report of the Arabia, whereas it cost 62 cents in Venezuela and $1.51 in Council for Namibia before the debate on the question of the United States and because it was making £200 million a Namibia in the Fourth Committee began. Despite his recent year profit on its £1,000 million investment in the Persian visit, he had decided to come again to deft nd the cause of Gulf. the Namibians in the United Nations partly because eminent Namibians fighting for the liberation of their 26. The United Nations itself, which received each year a country could not do so themselves, or b~~cause they had never-ending stream of petitions and appeals for justice, died or because they had not submittt d requests for seemed to be losing control over the situation. The great hearings. and the powerful were silent about the misdeeds committed in their names and about the travesties of law directed 22. He paid a tribute to the memory of Chief Hosea against justice and civilization in Africa. Was it then Kutako of the Hereros, who had lived through different surprising that youth was losing faith in the great univer­ periods of colonial tyranny when the Terri1 ory of Namibia sities and institutions of learning which were being used in had been under German domination, under the Mandates the pursuit of war and mass destruction? Young people in System and finally under the responsibilitr of the United the United States were claiming that the universities of Nations within the framework of the intemttional Trustee­ Michigan, Berkeley and Harvard were helping to master­ ship System. That outstanding African fi~ ure, like roblem. with inferior arms and to face a stronger and better organized South Africa. Yet there was a political battle to 25. No progress was being made on the question of be fought and the United Nations had to play the role of Namibia because the great Powers did no: consider it mediator. 1878th meeting- 9 October 1970 29 29. Was it conceivable that the United Kingdom, the which displayed initiative, even if they did not conform to United States or South Africa, which were manufacturing an orthodox party line. The production of the film poison gases, imagined that they had or could retain a "Phela-Indaba", for example, which had required great monopoly over those weapons for long or that they would courage, had almost had to be abandoned for lack of never be used by extremist groups driven to despair by financial support from "established" funds. In addition, policies which were not very different in their effects on two important proposals had been made to the United the economic and social life of the Africans from the Nations Council for Namibia and the Ad Hoc Sub­ policies of Nazi Germany. The United Nations, which had Committee on Namibia. The first proposal was that the been created out of the struggle against Nazi tyranny Council for Namibia s!1ould actually administer Namibia on should forthwith take action in Africa to forestall the behalf of the United Nations and be recognized as the collapse of civilization in that continent before the trend administering authority by Member States, by courts and became irreversible. It could be argued that the gas ovens particularly by the International Court of Justice and and concentration camps of Germany did not exist in empowered to grant concessions to and collect taxes from South Africa, but they were the logical end of the policies international corporations which carried out mining and of hatred and contempt which were being pursued with other industrial and commercial operations in Namibia. The relentless fanaticism by a governing party stupified by its second proposal concerned the establishment by the United own isolation and propaganda. The General Assembly itself Nations of a judicial committee which would act both as a had recently heard a voice reminiscent of that of Hitler court of appeal for persons who had been convicted by offering non-aggression pacts to its intended victims while South African courts under South African laws and as a its agents were already operating their territories. Far court of first instance to consider cases of officials of the beyond South Africa's borders the corrupting influence of South African administration who had been accused of its power and wealth were at work among African and cruelty to prisoners and of other crimes against humanity European organizations. specified in relevant conventions of the United Nations, even if they had not yet been ratified by South Africa. 30. In such a situation there were those who felt that the Certain Member States had submitted observations on those only hope lay in the use of arms, but even so there was still proposals, which had been published and circulated by the a political battle to be fought and the United Nations could Secretariat. Some of the questions raised by the United not abdicate its role of mediation. The present proposals States delegation, and particularly the distinction between regarding Namibia were made in the belief that there were reasonable and unacceptable elements of South African law certain actions which the United Nations could take with as applied to Namibia, had been studied by Mr. Leonard an overwhelming majority while still facing the fact that the Lazar, who was a lecturer in international and comparative United Kingdom had the power of veto which it had law at the London School of Economics and had been the threatened to use to protect South Africa from sanctions, leading defence counsel at the treason trial of Nelson and the fact that it was not likely to change its position in Mandela. Two papers written by Mr. Lazar on the proposals the near future. If the United Nations were to take had been given to the Chairman of the Committee and decisions in line with the proposals, it could discharge its should be made available to the members of the Com­ obligations to southern Africa and to South West Africa for mittee, the Council and the Ad Hoc Sub-Committee on wbich it has assumed direct responsibility. It could make a Namibia. beginning by taking measures against international corpor­ ations which so far had supported the South African 31. The problem of access to the proposed judicial occupation of Namibia by recognizing the latter's right to committee was not insuperable, with all the modern means grant concessions and receive taxation. Another proposal of communication available for those who wanted to ensure was that the United Nations should set up a Namibian that truth prevailed and help to clear the names of persons institute attached to one of the African universities which wrongly accused. In addition, it should be remembered would be responsible for the necessary research planning that, under the Mandate, the inhabitants of the Territory and educational work. The United Nations might also had been able to appeal to the Judicial Committee of the convene a conference in Europe of all industrial organi­ Privy Council of the United Kingdom and to address zations, trade unions and other interested groups to take petitions to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the positive action to implement the recommendation of the League of Nations. It was the duty of the United Nations to General Assembly and the Security Council. Another make the necessary arrangements for the exercise of those significant idea was for the United Nations to undertake a rights, within the framework of the jurisdiction it had careful study of fund-raising and allocation of funds to assumed. The South African officials had many more means organizations which were trying in various ways to resist of answering the allegations made against them than did the apartheid. That was a matter which primarily concerned unfortunates who were detained under the so-called Ter­ African liberation movements and other militant organi­ rorism Act. In that connexion, he wished to draw the zations. If it was felt that some organizations received attention of the Committee to two recent newspaper favoured treatment from trust funds, it was up to those articles dealing with questions which had been raised before concerned to discuss the matter and it could not be the Special Committee on the Policies of Apartheid of the expected that the leaders of the movements would come to Government of the Republic of South Africa, on 8 June discuss such questions in open sessions at the United 1970, by Miss Mary Benson. The first article which had Nations where their enemies might be present and might appeared on 2 October 1970, was headed "We are tolerant use the knowledge they would gain to sow discord among in Soutn Africa" -a remark made by the Minister of the the movements. The United Nations should, however, hold Interior, Mr. Viljeon; the article denounced the repression consultations itself, in order to ensure that resources were in South Africa and emphasized that its intensification was used to the best advantage and to assist those organizations reducing the prospect of peaceful evolution and creating 30 General Assembly -Twenty-fifth Session - Fourth Committee ------the threat of a racial war in southern J,frica. The other tation of mineral resources within the territory of Namibia, article, published in The New York Times of 4 October including those areas of the sea and the sea-bed within its 1970, concerned the Iman Abdullah Haron, a Moslem national jurisdiction. The law would specify the conditions leader accused of terrorist plotting, whc had reportedly under which individuals and legal entities could operate died in prison as a result of police bru ~ality. That case within the Territory, including the payment of royalties or raised the problem of the death of many detainees and of other charges. The licence-or concession-could be with­ the methods used by the security police. More or less subtle drawn on grounds to be specified or could be renewable forms of torture, particularly brain-washmg, had become from time to time. Provision should be made for appeals to customary in South Africa and deaths among detainees a judicial body against any decision or allegedly onerous were so frequent that one could really speak of an condition. The effectiveness of the law would depend on "institutionalization of cruelty". The Uni :ed Nations first the co-operation of those States which were directly or responsibility was towards those who wen being tortured; indirectly engaged in the search for or commercial exploi­ when a State used sadistic individuals to interrogate or tation of minerals within the Territory. The first suggestion guard defenceless citizens-as had been dmte in the case of was made for the following practical reasons: (a) the Mr. Marotse, a resident of Zambia who had been kidnapped exploitation of mineral wealth was the major activity of in Botswana and flown to Rhodesia and South Africa to be foreign companies; the number of companies was limited so tortured and then sentenced to fifteen ~rears' imprison­ that, with the co-operation of the States concerned, ment-it was the State itself which must be judged. The effective enforcement of the law could be envisaged; (b) the hijackers in the Middle East had used desperate methods to licences-or concessions-would give the Council a financial call the attention of the world to the plight Jf their families share in the operation, as trustee for the people of Namibia. in the desert but had not injured or even insulted any of their victims. On the other hand, the act of brigandage by a 33. The second question requiring immediate consider­ State which called itself civilized and which .vas threatening ation concerned the judicial power to be exercised by a to pursue persons it v·ished to charge acros; the borders of judicial committee. If the committee was given jurisdiction neighbouring States must be judged by the United Nations, and powers similar to those exercised by the existing before such actions succeeded in provokJ ng violence in Supreme Court, a reasonably just and efficient judicial those African States, which South Africa thought it could procedure, based on the British model would be achieved. bully and coerce as it did its own citizens. Therefore, The committee would not apply the apartheid laws among other necessary measures, the United Nations should currently in force in the Territory, but there was a vast at least establish a judicial committee to restrain South body of civil and criminal law~ which did not come within Africa. that category.

32. With regard to the establishment of a United Nations 34. Those proposed areas of activity did not preclude the administration for Namibia, Mr. Leonard lazar proposed possibility of other activities being undertaken by the that the Council for Namibia should be given all the powers Council, such as the issue of passports or other documents, of a sovereign and independent State. A major problem but they were the two areas in which practical results were would be its inability to exercise control within the most likely to be achieved within the immediate future. territory of Namibia. In the external sphere. however, the Council would be able to wield consid )rable power, The petitioners withdrew. provided that its areas of operation were cazefully chosen. Furthermore, it should be able to perform ce1 tain functions Organization of work relating to internal Namibian matters, althc ugh with less certainty of effectiveness; the results would depend on a 35. The CHAIRMAN suggested that, in order to expedite variety of circumstances, such as the pressur1~ which could work, the list of speakers in the general debate on agenda be exerted directly or indirectly on the persons and officials it(.ms 62, 63 and 64 should be closed at 6 p.m. on Monday, involved. Mr. Lazar was not at that stage ~ uggesting the 12 October. If there were no objections, he would assume establishment of an independent international body, which that the Committee adopted that suggestion. might well become possible in time. That egal problem should be left in abeyance; what was needed 1t the present It was so decided. time was practical results. The United Nations Council for Namibia should be given all such powers-executive, legis­ 36. The CHAIRMAN said that the general debate on items lative and judicial-as were necessary for the effective and 62, 63 and 64 should if possible be concluded before just government of the people of Namibia. In Mr. Lazar's Monday, 19 October, in order to enable members of the view, the Council should concentrate on powers which Committee to attend some of the meetings of the General could be effectively exercised. Two types of measures Assembly during the commemorative session. He therefore would be particularly suitable. The first was the licensing asked all members who wished to speak on items 62, 63 and control of companies engaged in the search for or and 64 to bear that time schedule in mind as far as possible exploitation of mineral resources within the territory of and requested delegations which intended to submit draft Namibia, including the revenues of such co npanies and resolutions to start their consultations without delay, so their personnel. The Council could issue a law requiring all that the texts could be circulated in good time. companies and persons to obtain a licence for their activities involving the search for and commncial exploi- The meeting rose at 5.25 p.m.