House of Commons Culture, Media and Sport Committee Valediction of Mark Thompson, Director General of the BBC Oral evidence Tuesday 19 June 2012 Mark Thompson, Director General, BBC Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 19 June 2012 HC 324-i Published on 6 August 2012 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £5.50 The Culture, Media and Sport Committee The Culture, Media and Sport Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and its associated public bodies. Current membership Mr John Whittingdale MP (Conservative, Maldon) (Chair) Dr Thérèse Coffey MP (Conservative, Suffolk Coastal) Damian Collins MP (Conservative, Folkestone and Hythe) Philip Davies MP (Conservative, Shipley) Paul Farrelly MP (Labour, Newcastle-under-Lyme) Louise Mensch MP (Conservative, Corby) Steve Rotheram MP (Labour, Liverpool, Walton) Mr Adrian Sanders MP (Liberal Democrat, Torbay) Jim Sheridan MP (Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North) Mr Gerry Sutcliffe MP (Labour, Bradford South) Mr Tom Watson MP (Labour, West Bromwich East) Powers The committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the internet via www.parliament.uk. Publication The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the internet at www.parliament.uk/parliament.uk/cmscom. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Elizabeth Flood (Clerk), Sarah Heath (Second Clerk), Victoria Butt (Senior Committee Assistant), Keely Bishop/Alison Pratt (Committee Assistants) and Jessica Bridges-Palmer (Media Officer). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 6188; the Committee’s email address is [email protected] List of witnesses Tuesday 19 June 2012 Page Mark Thompson, Director General, BBC Ev 1 Culture, Media and Sport Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Culture, Media and Sport Committee on Tuesday 19 June 2012 Members present: Mr John Whittingdale (Chair) Dr Thérèse Coffey Jim Sheridan Damian Collins Mr Gerry Sutcliffe Mrs Louise Mensch Mr Tom Watson Steve Rotheram ________________ Examination of Witness Witness: Mark Thompson, Director General of the BBC, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: All right, let us kick off. Can I welcome administrative jobs, are now carried out by women. for this afternoon session a familiar face before the The director of news is a woman and the controller of Committee, Mark Thompson, the Director General of Radio 4 is a woman and so on. On Today, you touch the BBC, for what may or may not be a valedictory an interesting issue. I would say that I have certainly performance, but we thought it is appropriate to invite felt, in my time as Director General, that the BBC you to come and talk to us not just about recent events could and should do more, and indeed I think we have but to reflect upon the time that you have spent as done some more, especially in making sure that we Director General. Before we move into the more were open to talent from wherever it comes, in general questioning, my colleague, Louise Mensch, particular talent—both on television and radio but has another pressing engagement so she would like to more on television—from older women, and that is ask one or two questions before she disappears and definitely an area where we need to do more. then she may re-appear. Let us start off with Louise. The Today programme question is an interesting one because Today has to cover British public life as it Q2 Mrs Mensch: Mr Chairman, I need to start off currently is rather than the public life that we would by declaring an interest. I am a 50% shareholder in wish it was going to have in the future. It is true in a small tech-media company called Mensch-Bozier, many walks of life, not least politics and Parliament, which has today launched a social media platform. Mr that there is a significant proportion of men, and in Thompson, I apologise because this was re-arranged. the end what we try to do in our news and current I have a meeting that I must attend and will be back affairs is to reflect reality. That means when you are subsequently, but if I could kick off by asking you a doing on the Today programme stories about public question, which is not in the brief and which is about policy, about parliamentary, local and other forms of the BBC’s treatment of women. You will be aware government and politics, when you are covering that a journalist in the Guardian did a study of women business, in a sense you arrive in parts of our national in public life and found that women’s voices were life, some of which have an under-representation of conspicuously absent not just from the BBC but from women compared to the UK population. many other platforms, I think 16% of The Independent newspaper. In particular, she counted up the Q3 Mrs Mensch: If I may say so, Mr Thompson, contribution of women to the Today programme and you would not make that argument, would you, on the found that in almost all cases, women formed less grounds of race? You would not say that because the than 20% of the contributors to the Today programme. BBC has to reflect the world as it is, therefore we will I notice that, when we had you before, the BBC kept exclude ethnic minority presenters and contributors so statistics on racial and ethnic employment but did not they only reflect that portion of—why would you keep any statistics on women’s employment. Do you make the argument for gender? believe that this has been a problem for the BBC Mark Thompson: I am not suggesting that we do under your tenure, both women’s voices on the air in exclude presenters, because we do not, and we have radio television and women employed at the BBC? women presenters across our news and current affairs Mark Thompson: It is a big topic. We do keep programmes, and when we talk to members of the statistics for our employment of women at every level public we try to reflect people from every community of the BBC and I am very happy to share those. We in the country. But when you are, for example, doing make them public. Overall in the BBC this has been debates between MPs, to some extent you have the a period that has seen greater numbers of women issue that you are stuck with the gender balance inside employed at almost every level of the organisation, up the House of Commons. to and including the executive board. Of the other six executive directors in the BBC, three are men, three Q4 Mrs Mensch: It is not completely true though, is are women, and some of the most significant and it, in terms of your public affairs coverage, because if important creative roles in the entire organisation, as you look at Newsnight, the vast majority of the well as some of the most important management and presenting team is men? If you look at the Today Ev 2 Culture, Media and Sport Committee: Evidence 19 June 2012 Mark Thompson programme, the majority of the presenting team is you look at the 10 o’clock news and the Today men. If you look at Question Time, clearly the key programme, the overriding duty is to reflect the world presenter is a man. If you look at Any Questions? the as it is. The danger if you start trying to, in a sense, key presenter is man. If we look at Daily Politics, adjust reality is that people think there are not issues again, it is male-dominated, so we see a range of male in these areas. domination across the whole of the BBC’s flagship Mrs Mensch: Thank you very much. I am hoping to current affairs programming, which I think is not the return to ask you some more questions at the end of way for a public service broadcaster to lead by the session. example. Mark Thompson: Can we focus on Newsnight?We Q9 Chair: Did you agree with Greg Dyke in his have Emily Maitlis, Kirsty Wark and Mishal Husain, criticism of the BBC as hideously white? all regularly presenting the programme. We have just Mark Thompson: I would never use that language appointed a female political editor, Allegra Stratton. and I think that the BBC should be trying to get talent We have a whole range of women on Newsnight. from every part of this country and every different What you have just said is not true. community, and I think that we should focus on the best talent. The issue historically is more about not Q5 Mrs Mensch: No, I think it is true. If we were to fully connecting with every community in the country take the main presenters of the programme, whether and therefore potentially missing out on outstanding it is Gavin Esler or Jeremy Paxman, and count up the journalists, reporters, writers and comedians. I would number of times that men versus women are the main much rather base it around the creative opportunity presenters of your current affairs programme, there is and the richness you can get from being open to talent no doubt at all that men would dominate.