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Note to the Secretary-General OPRAH WINFREY TRANSCRIPTS

Sir, As requested, please find attached copies of transcripts for "Oprah in Africa" (ABC) and Larry King Live interview with Oprah Winfrey.

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*A CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Interview With Oprah Winfrey

Aired December 9, 2003 - 21:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Oprah Winfrey. Do we have to say the last name?

She's here for the hour live to talk about her ground breaking career, her no. 1 talk show, her recent trip to South Africa, her future plans and more. We'll even take some phone calls. The one and only Oprah, next on LARRY KING LIVE.

You realize something after bumping into each other on the street today in New York, Oprah and I, neither one us have a cell phone.

OPRAH WINFREY,: Hey. Maybe we're the only two people left.

KING: It's great, ain't it.

WINFREY: It's great. If you can't reach me, you can't reach me.

And what did everybody do before cell phones?

KING: All the time we been together split screen at your studio, in the old studio in Baltimore, this is the first time on this set.

WINFREY: Ever. Ever. Worldwide. This is what's so amazing. I just came back from Africa. I've been in other countries. No matter where you are, CNN is there your friend and there's Larry. No matter where you are.

KING: Isn't nice to know.

WINFREY: It's nice to know.

KING: I want to cover a lot of bases.

WINFREY: OK.

KING: How do you explain the show -- your show rebounded?

I mean, your no. 1 but you're up like 14 percent.

WINFREY: Isn't that good?

It is extraordinary after 18 years, this is the 18th season. And we just came out of the door. This season. Had a new executive producer who's been with me, actually, since we started Ellen Rakieten . And Dianne Hudson who had been producer of the show for 10 years took over my foundation. And we made a decision this year that we were going to be more celebratory about life. We were going to have more diversity in our shows. That I was going to be more actively involved. I was going to take some things out of the studio and celebrate life in a way that we hadn't in past years.

KING: Did you almost give it up.

WINFREY: Yes. There have been several times when I almost gave it up. I don't actually - after I finish "Beloved" around 1988,1 had a revelation about this idea of giving it up and what it meant to have a voice like this in the world. And I thought then that's when I came the theme of run on and see what the end will be. Because I just thought, look at where I came from. My, You know, history, my ancestry. Look at how 1 ,r

hard it was to get to where I am. It doesn't make sense to give it up. And so what I try to give myself an option. I have a two-year deal so that there will come a time when I know that it's over. When the ratings will tell me. When the voice of the people will tell me. I'll know it's time.

KING: Will it be the your ratings or you just saying I've had enough?

WINFREY: I think maybe a combination of. I think as long as I can use television and not be used by television, to use it as a platform, it's a wonderful vehicle.

KING: Not bad.

WINFREY: Not bad.

KING: We're 18 years old, too. I just thought about.

WINFREY: Are you?

KING: June 1st, 1985.

WINFREY: Wow.

KING: When did you start?

WINFREY: September 8th, 1986. So maybe I'm in the - going into the 18th year.

KING: OK. The - the show does more newsy things, doesn't it?

WINFREY: Yes, we do everything.

KING: You do Elizabeth Smart. You do Scott Peterson. There were times you didn't.

WINFREY: Well, you know, this is what has happened. It is like you every day. Every day you're only as good as your last show. I mean, look at Laura Bush last night. That was pretty great. Then I'm on tonight.

KING: Tomorrow night is Cosby. We moved things around. We have Cosby tomorrow night and then we got Brokaw, then we got President Carter.

WINFREY: You've got a great week. A great week here in New York but I am just saying every day you have to work at making it great. There's not one day when you sort of lay back and say, that was it. That was a really great show because you still have tomorrow. And so, we have - you know, we do everything.

KING: Do true crime stories bother you?

WINFREY: You know what, it's important to remain current. It's interesting to do crime if it's something the whole country is talking about. For example, Elizabeth Smart or in the Scott Peterson case. But just doing crime for crime sake it does bothers me because you end up repeating what's already been done and said. And really I don't like putting negativity out on the air if I can help it.

KING: Michael Jackson, that's a story because it's a story?

WINFREY: Uh-huh.

KING: That's big.

WINFREY: And, you know, what's interesting is in 1992,1 remember before there were ever any allegation about Michael Jackson and his - his supposed involvement with children, I did an interview in 1992 live around the world. And I remember that because everybody was saying, oh my goodness, you have got this Michael Jackson interview.

What will you talk about?

And i never really prepare questions. I just kind of sit and have a conversation. KING: That's the way we work.

WINFREY: Yes. That's the way we work. So, I wasn't nervous until I had announced live there was like a promo like three minutes before we went on air. And I said, coming up, live around the world, Michael Jackson. And then, my knees started to shake because I thought, OK, I don't know him. I don't know how he's going to respond. I don't know if I ask him a question, if he's going to answer it or not. So, it's the first time I'm ever nervous in an interview.

KING: Do you feel sorry for him?

WINFREY: No.

KING: What do you feel?

WINFREY: You know, I try to basically keep my opinions to myself when it comes to people who are charged with crimes that I don't know anything about.

KING: Good idea. WINFREY: Yes. And so, I don't --1 don't feel anything.

KING: What do you make of the onslaught of celebrity-dom- tabloid-justice-Martha Stewart-Kobe Bryant?

We seem to be flooded.

Is this a new era?

WINFREY: This is interesting. You know, I've been sort of in the public's eye now for going into my 18th year, and I noticed around 1988 a definite difference, a definite change in the press. Prior to the 1988 season for myself, all my - all the tabloid stories were ridiculous things. You know, you know, babies from different planets and all that. And then, I lost a lot of weight on that diet where I...

KING: And you gathered all the...

WINFREY: Pulled out the fat. And it just changed. And what I realized is it changed because the tabloid press realized that that sold papers and so it's all about what sells. And it's all about what I think the particularly tabloid media feels is in the public's interest and the public — what is the public pulse. And so they print over and over - I get the same stories over and over.

KING: Recycled?

WINFREY: I get the she's too fat, her friends are worried about her being fat.

KING: Her boyfriend is leaving.

WINFREY: Her boyfriend is leaving her. Dumped. I get the same either dumped or headed...

KING: Or dumper.

WINFREY: No. I've never been the dumper. I've always been dumped because that's a better story. Or I've been - I've been secret wedding. I've been secret wedding, wants to be married. Pines to be married. Wants to have children.

KING: Do you laugh at them or do they still get you?

WINFREY: No. They don't get me anymore. I know the moment I say that does get me. I was a little ticked, think, back in July. I happen to be out of the country and there was an Oprah dump story and I was a little unnerved by that because it just was so false. It was -- the story was about how there had been a big fight between Stedman and I. And the truth of the matter is we were all together on the 4th of July, you know, having a picnic with his family. And so I couldn't fathom how they could come up with that story unless someone personally fed them that story.

KING: Do you frankly - there's so much to talk about. I want to get to South Africa and your philanthropy. WINFREY: Yes.

KING: Do you pinch yourself saying, come on, you're one of the most powerful women in the world. Maybe - - certainly in the top five. Do you ever say to yourself, wow?

WINFREY: Larry, that's a good - no. I don't say to myself wow I'm in the top five. I don't think...

KING: I don't mean that. I mean, that you've made it.

WINFREY: I think - I marvel every day of my life. Because first of all, I start out the day with a form of meditation or prayer. Some kind of thoughtful inward look at myself and something bigger than myself. I try to do that every day. Not just wow but marvel at this life. I mean, I was born in Mississippi in 1954. And all that means. There are people watching that knows what that means and people that don't know what that means. Well, 1954, Mississippi was the most racist state in the United States. We had more lynchings in that state per county than any state in the union. And I was born during the year of Brown vs. Board of Education which was the year that really brought about a sense of hope to then colored people. We were called at the time. To believe that life could be better. That you would no longer have to go to a school that was segregated with you having books that were less than the other children. With you not having the right -- the proper facilities and the proper tools to which to learn. I was born in that year.

KING: And now look.

WINFREY: So, when I hear Paul Simon sing "Born at the Right Time" I think, he is singing about me.

KING: Speaking of by the way, our dear friend Senator Paul Simon died today.

WINFREY: Really.

KING: Your former Illinois senator.

WINFREY: Yes. From Illinois. I hadn't heard that.

KING: He had heart surgery and then passed away today. Sorry to hear.

WINFREY: I'm sorry to hear from that.

KING: We'll be right back with Oprah. We'll talk about South Africa, her feelings being in South Africa. What it was like. What she did there. The special coming. We'll talk about her philanthropy. We'll include your phone calls.

She's our special guest. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: We're back. Before we talk philanthropy, we were discussing during the break about Dr. Phil, who Oprah mentions she was in Africa when he hosted my surprise birthday party.

WINFREY: Yeah.

KING: They told you about that, right? You were on that show, you did a tape for it.

WINFREY: This was what - yeah, I did a tape for your birthday, but this is what's so amazing. I'm in Africa, I'm sitting in Johannesburg, in a hotel lobby, and somebody comes running up and they say, Dr. Phil is on Larry King. Not only is he on Larry, he's doing Larry.

KING: He's the host.

WINFREY: He's doing Larry. Yeah.

KING: Then you said to me something interesting. Dr. Phil was the second best business decision of your life.

WINFREY: Yeah. KING: First of all, what was the best?

WINFREY: The best business decision was to own myself.

KING: King world?

WINFREY: And own my own show. That was the best business decision.

KING: Not a bad move.

WINFREY: Not a bad move.

KING: And why was Phil second?

WINFREY: Phil is second, because you know, I have over the years just like you talked to thousands of people and therapists and seen, you know, books come and books go and psychologists and counselors and so forth, and during that trial in Texas, for the beef trial, Phil was my counselor for that trial.

KING: That's where you met him, right?

WINFREY: Yeah. That's where I met him. And every day we'd get in our white van and ride off to the courthouse, and I'd sit in and be counseled in the morning by him about whatever was going to be happening during that day, and I'd say to him, you know, you're really good. You are good. You should put some of this stuff in a book. I mean, really. He was like, aw, shucks. You know? And so I encouraged him to write his first book. Now, I mean, he has I don't know how many best sellers out.

KING: And making him a regular on your show?

WINFREY: And then made him a regular on our show. And that started out as just I thought that he'd been very helpful for me, and I felt that his advice was sound and he was a solid person. And had everything to back it up in terms of, you know, he has more degrees than, you know, a thermometer, as he would say. And I just over the years had run across a lot of people. I'd never run across anybody who was as qualified and as able to get to the point. I mean, he just was so direct and helpful. And so I'm in the business of trying to be helpful. And so I thought that he could be helpful to our viewers. And that's how it all started.

KING: So his success has not surprised you?

WINFREY: Not at all. I felt it from the very beginning. I remember on the very first show I did with him, I said, you need to unleash yourself. You need to just let yourself go and tell it like it is. You know, the very first time that we did him on our show, 1 got a lot of calls, e-mails from people saying, how can you dare let him stand up there and say that and talk like that to people? And I said, you know, the next time we do him on the show, I said to the producers, I can help the audience to understand who he is and what he's trying to say. So I said to Phil, you know what? You just have to tell it like it is, and I'll say to the audience, that's what you're doing. You're Mr. Tell it like it is. and that's how we made it palatable to people to accept. He's a guy who's going to tell you like it is. And I'd say, oh, that's what Phil did to me. He just told me like it was.

KING: Do you produce his show?

WINFREY: I'm not the producer. Paramount is the producer. I...

KING: Investor?

WINFREY: I own the show.

KING: Oh, kind of an investor?

WINFREY: Yeah, kind of an investor.

KING: It's your baby?

WINFREY: Harpo Studios, we partnered with Paramount and Phil in order to have them produce the show. Because I couldn't produce that show and also do my own show. That was a good business decision, but for the best business decision was - was working in cooperation with Phil. I understood early on in the --1 think second year that we were doing Phil on our show, this guy is really, really good.

KING: What do you make of his critique of his product endorsements?

WINFREY: Well, this is what I think. I think that anybody who has the ability to, you know, reach an audience, be that you or I, I've been asked by every single person and manufacturer in this country to endorse products or to, you know, use my name. And I made the choice that I would do a magazine, because that is how I felt I could best use my voice. And Phil owns himself, own his name, owns the right to do whatever he chooses to do.

KING: So you don't criticize the route he takes?

WINFREY: No. I think that's a choice that he made, and I think that his book is absolutely - actually, he sent the gullies of the book, the...

KING: About weight?

WINFREY: About weight. And I was in a conversation with him, and I said, you know, Phil, what is it you really want this book to be? And he said, I think it's the ultimate weight solution. I go, there's your title. There's your title.

KING: So speaking of books, I spent a whole day with you once at a party for you, for your book.

WINFREY: Oh, yeah, and then I didn't have it! I didn't -- you know what happened?

KING: What?

WINFREY: I decided that I was doing the book for the wrong reason. I was 40 years old. And I had a lot of people saying, you're 40, so you should do a book. So I started the process of, you know, working on this book.

KING: It's 10 years now.

WINFREY: It's 10 years now. And I didn't do the book. I didn't release the book, because I felt like I was in the learning curve and just the heart of the learning curve of my life. And that it wasn't time.

KING: Have we now edged as we approach 50.

WINFREY: Fifty. We are not approaching it. We're just about there.

KING: I have ties older than you. Are you going to write one now?

WINFREY: I don't know if I'll write a book. I was recently in South Africa, and Nelson Mandela was telling me that I really should do it. And he carries a lot of weight with me, so maybe I'll think about bringing it back to life again. But it's not important to me. You know, I have kept journals since I was 15 years old.

KING: You could publish them.

WINFREY: I could just publish them.

KING: You could. WINFREY: Yeah, I could. So I think it's important for me personally just to sort of keep a documentation of my life and what's going on, but the idea of releasing a biography of myself doesn't really appeal to me.

KING: When we come back, we'll talk to Oprah about her visit to South Africa, what she brought to the children of South Africa, the special that's coming with her on ABC.

And as we go to break, here she is with a fellow you may know.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WINFREY: I have such a deep affection for this country, because of all that the people of this country have been through. In spite of the suffering, in spite of apartheid, the spirit of the country and the people in it is still so strong. Madeva (ph) is my strongest living mentor. I want to be like him when I grow up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WINFREY: One, two, three.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There's Oprah giving presents in South Africa. Her trip there - what was the purpose?

WINFREY: The purpose was I wanted to share some of what I have with children who don't have. And so, I believed that everybody has an opportunity to do that in some form in their life, and I have in a big life and so, I can do things in a big way.

KING: And you're going to do the December 22nd show --1 saw some of it tonight on tape.

WINFREY: Yes.

KING: Devoted to it. Your going to do a special?

WINFREY: On ABC.

KING: On the 17th with Diane?

WINFREY: With Diane Sawyer...

KING: And that is about he trip.

WINFREY: It's about the trip. It's called - I forgot what it's called but it is really good.

KING: What's the motivation to give? WINFREY: The motivation was just because, Larry, there's so much sadness in the world and I wanted to be able to do something. I wanted to be able to bring a joy to children who would not have had a day of joy. Because I remembered in my life there were times when people did that for me, so I wanted to be able to extend myself and kindness. One of the things I ask on my show all the time we have something I call --1 have a public charity and then my private foundation, but I have a public charity called the Angel Network.

And I ask people always how can you in your own life make a difference in somebody else's?

What can you do?

KING: Nothing like it.

WINFREY: Yes. Nothing like it. So I think, I don't just ask that question of other people. I also try to do it myself. So, the answer for me last year was to go to Africa to try to bring ~ spread joy to children who wouldn't have it. Because I understood and do understand that the epidemic there is devastating a continent. And I think most of the people wanting us around the world really don't understand the level of devastation that's going on. You are going to have an entire continent, you have 11 million children in Sub Sahara Africa now suffering as orphans. And what I realized when I went to Africa is that when we hear the stories about orphans, you think, orphans, somebody's taking care of them. Well, they're AIDS orphans. What I realized is they're children left to take care of themselves. I followed children home who are you know, 12 and 14 years old taking care of their siblings. There's a definition for it now called sibling families where children who are 9 an 10 taking are taking care of the 6-year-old, 4-year-old and 3-year-old.

KING: How do they do it. WINFREY: That's -- how do you do it?

So, if your a young girl you have to prostitute yourself or you're out on the street and your begging. But you have an entire continent that's faced with this kind of devastation. And I think when we hear the stories, we just think, OK, they're orphans, you hear 11 million, 5 million children died. The numbers don't register to faces, into real people. So, that's one of my goal is to make people understand they're people, these children just like your children. They're cute little boys. Just like everybody's watching, their children who want to have a life. If you do not - if we as a nation do not do whatever we can to support these children, you're going to have social chaos in 10 years.

KING: Don't you think frankly all of us with breaks in life owe it back?

WINFREY: Yes. You need to do whatever you can. I think that every person watching, listening, hearing us, that's a different thing. You know, I can pack up 50 people and move them to Africa and spend a month over there visiting orphanages and then hire 50 more people over there to help us. That's a thing I can do. I can build a school for girls as a model which I'm doing right now. I'm in the process of putting a school together there, and then build other schools. That's what I can do as one person. But there are many people watching that write a check, write their Congressman, who can get involved in a way that will change the lives of millions of people.

KING: What was it like when you gave them the gifts?

WINFREY: Single happiest day of my life. Single happiest...

KING: No bigger thrill than giving?

WINFREY: No bigger thrill. You know, not only giving, but to give to children who have never received a gift. Who have never received a gift. So that the very idea of them being able to say this is yours, I've come from across the ocean and wanted you to have this wonderful day. At first, they didn't know what I was talking about. They don't know who I am, AS far as television is concerned. So it was extraordinary. And I say that, you know, I can do that in Africa and people watching can do it in their own neighborhoods. But just reaching out a little bit to the continent makes a world of difference. I mean, getting the drugs to children who need them, being able to keep mothers alive. That's one of the things I'm interested in doing. Because you're going to have millions more children orphaned. When I say orphans, I mean nobody. They're on the streets. On the streets. And it is unnatural for children to...

WINFREY: Is UNICEF is there? They're there do what they can. CARE is there. I was just there three days ago working with the UNICEF team, working with team from CARE, working with Allan Rosenfeld (ph), from Colombia going to clinics. Everybody - there are a lot of people on the ground doing what they can, but none of it is enough because the consciousness of the world has not been raised.

KING: You gave 50,000 gifts?

WINFREY: Yes. I gave 50,000. My intention originally was I wanted to do a million. I wanted to do a million. My goal was I want to go there and see a million kids and going to give gifts to a million kids so that a million kids will have the best Christmas of their lives. I couldn't reach a million in 30 days, I only had 30 days off. So, but I could get to 50,000 in 30 days.

KING: Are you going to do it more and more?

WINFREY: I will do if more - I just came back. You know, I think, I'm always looking for ways that I can use myself, use my life, use my money, use my time, use my energy. So, this time, I gave money to schools. I gave money to organizations to support teachers. I gave, you know, money to build dormitories for college and so, I will use myself and use what I've been able to acquire in life in different ways. I would do that again. I would do that again but what I'm interested in doing now is creating a lasting impact.

KING: Like the school? WINFREY: My efforts - my efforts going into schools, because education is freedom.

KING: Now, the show, December 22, "Oprah Show" of December 22nd features this. And we saw some it tonight, it's terrific. And her special will air on December 17th. WINFREY: On ABC.

KING: ABC. Dealing with the same topic.

WINFREY: Yes.

KING: And Diane Sawyer will be the co-host with you.

WINFREY: That's right. I think it's "Oprah and Africa: Personal Journey, Global Challenge." That's the ABC special is.

KING: Sounds PBS.

WINFREY: But it's not.

KING: I know. The Discovery Channel presents...

WINFREY: Global Challenge. Right.

KING: It's Oprah. You, don't need a last name.

WINFREY: You know what, as a kid, I hated that name. As a kid, I hated my name. And it's really worked out for me.

KING: Was it Harpo backwards?

WINFREY: It was not supposed to be Harpo backwards. It's supposed to be Arpah, from Ruth first chapter, 14th verse in the Bible.

KING: You're biblical.

WINFREY: It was supposed to be biblical.

KING: They spelled it wrong?

WINFREY: And they spelled it wrong on the birth certificate.

KING: Who knew?

WINFREY: Who knew.

KING: You wouldn't have been a hit if it was the other one.

WINFREY: No, on a first job in Baltimore, my job in Baltimore, I was 22-years-old, went there to anchor. And the news director asked me to change my name. All the suits are sitting in the room. And they asked would I change my name to Suzy because nobody would ever remember or pronounce Oprah. That was another good decision I made, to keep my name.

KING: We're going to break with Susie Winfrey.

WINFREY: They said Susie's friendly. Susie brings you the news.

KING: Here's Oprah with a special little lady. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Coming from another country to help us make our dreams come true will make this world even a better place to live in. Once again, thanks a million. May God bless you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with media mogul Oprah Winfrey, who puts her money...

WINFREY: Media mogul?

KING: Media mogul.

WINFREY: Media mogul.

KING: ... puts her money where it counts.

WINFREY: It's interesting to be described that way.

KING: How do you describe yourself? Broadcast person.

WINFREY: You know what, it's so funny, Larry. Every time I go out of the country and you have that little thing to fill out and it says, you know, what is your business? I always, like, hesitate. I don't know what to call myself. You know?

KING: Mogul is a good word, though.

WINFREY: Well, I will not be putting "media mogul," that's for darn sure. They'd say you have to, like, pay more people.

KING: Before we take some calls, book club. Now it's back, but it's just great books.

WINFREY: Yeah. Well, they were pretty good before. They were pretty good before.

KING: Yeah, but now you're going to Steinbeck.

WINFREY: Yeah, I'm doing --1 am trying to do - I'm not calling it classics, because I don't want to have to listen to the hoity- toities telling me what a classic is and what isn't. What happened is, for all those years I was doing the book club, I never could read an author who was dead, because I'd given myself the perimeter here of only talking to authors who obviously were alive. And so, I got frustrated with only being able to read books that were current and only having to be able to select authors who were - be able to select an author to come and talk about the book.

So I ended it and I really shouldn't have ended it. That was a mistake. And after, I mean, like, two days after I ended it, I thought, gee, I should have thought about that more, because then I started reading Steinbeck again. And - because for six years, with the book club, I would never read an author who's dead. Because I thought, waste of time, becuase you can't get them on the show.

KING: That's the way we think.

WINFREY: Yeah, can't get them on the show. I'm wasting time reading this. So I had started to read "East of Eden." And I had never read "East of Eden." I had read all of the other Steinbecks, and I thought, gee, I wished I had someone to tell about this book. And I called my friend Gail, who isn't the biggest reader in the world, because she's a mom and running the soccer - so she takes a long time to finish reading things. She watches more TV than she reads.

And so, I was like, well, are you finished with the book yet? Because I want to talk about it. And so that wasn't very rewarding. Just telling a friend about it. I thought, well, I had a book club and I let it go. I'm going to bring it back.

KING: You're going to make me feel old. I interviewed John Steinbeck.

WINFREY: Get out.

KING: Yeah. And John O'Hara.

WINFREY: You interviewed John Steinbeck? KING: I did.

WINFREY: What year was that?

KING: I'm old. '64, '63.

WINFREY: My God, Larry.

KING: Before he died, 70,1 think.

WINFREY: Yeah. That is - and how was he?

KING: He was a great guy.

WINFREY: Was he great? OK.

KING: Wonderful man.

WINFREY: Because you know, sometimes people are better in their...

KING: I know.

WINFREY: ... with words. Was he -- did he live up to it?

KING: I remember asking him, I said, when you wrote "The Grapes of Wrath," did you realize you were writing a book that would change they way we look at the poor white in this country and the South?

WINFREY: Did he?

KING: And he said, "all I did was tell a story."

WINFREY: Really?

KING: I write a good story.

WINFREY: You know, what is interesting is that "East of Eden" was written to his sons, and he thought that "East of Eden" was his best book ever.

KING: Yeah, he did. Oh, he did. He loved "Travels With Charlie."

WINFREY: Yeah.

KING: King Mountain, North Carolina, as we go to calls for Oprah, hello?

CALLER: Yes, Oprah.

WINFREY: Hey.

CALLER: The way the world is today, would you consider ever running for an office like the Senate or maybe even the presidential office?

WINFREY: No, ma'am. 1 would not.

KING: Why not?

WINFREY: Thank you for asking that, though. No. I would not, because as Larry and I was just sitting here vibing on the tube all around the world, this is the best forum in the world. I think all the senators wish they had that for themselves.

KING: It ain't bad. WINFREY: It ain't bad. So I just believe, for example, what I'm trying to do in terms of raising awareness and getting people to change the way they look at AIDS in the world, I can do a much more profound job sitting here on the LARRY KING show and using my own show than I can trying to be, you know, in politics. I just feel like it's the best forum in the world for reaching people. I mean, because here we are in, what North Carolina? In this woman's home, sitting here in the middle of the night.

KING: Can't buy that. WINFREY: No. No. Politics isn't for me.

KING: Boonsboro, Maryland, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Oprah. How are you doing today?

WINFREY: Hi. Very good, thank you.

CALLER: My question for you is, first of all, I just want to say that I admire what you do for people. Spiritually, if anything else. My question for you is, I'm 24. At 24, Oprah, what were you doing? Because I am lost.

WINFREY: 24.

KING: Lost.

WINFREY: Lost.

KING: She was in Maryland, I think.

WINFREY: Yeah, I just looked at the stage manager who's 29. So...

KING: You were in Maryland, right?

WINFREY: I was in -- no. I want to say - yes, I was. At 24,1 was not lost. I have to tell you. I've been in TV, not as long as Larry, but I've been in TV since I was 19 years old. And by the time I was 24, I was working in Maryland at WJZTV, which I had come there at 22 years old.

KING: Channel 13.

WINFREY: Channel 13. But I will say this, because I have god daughters and nieces who are in their 20s, and I would say that the 20s are the time when you feel the most lost. As I was saying to Larry earlier, I have kept a journal all these years, and so since I was 15, and my journal when I was 24 and 25,1 go — I look back at that journal and I weep for that woman. Because I was so pathetic. Even though I was working in news, I was so disorganized. I mean, I drove this little Chevy Chevette (ph) and my car was the junkiest car in Maryland. I would, like, roll my hair and leave the windows down, because I didn't have air conditioning.

KING: I guested on your show.

WINFREY: During that time.

(CROSSTALK)

WINFREY: That's right. That's -- but 24, the 20s are the time when you're finding out who you are. And so if you're ever going to be lost, 24 is the time to be seeking and finding yourself. So don't -- this is what I say to people in their 20s, don't beat yourself up about it. That's a time when you always feel like that's why this - I remember writing in a journal once, that's why they call that show "The Young and the Restless," because you always feel like you're not doing enough, you're not getting ahead. You wish you were doing more, and why -- why aren't things more settled? They're not supposed to be in your 20s.

KING: Last time you were on, you said you'd think some day maybe about adopting.

WINFREY: Yeah. Did I say that?

KING: Yeah, you did. WINFREY: OK.

KING: And you see my two little boys right there.

WINFREY: Oh, they're cuties.

KING: How would you like to take one of them home? Come on.

WINFREY: I'd like to take them home and then send them back to you.

KING: You don't want them?

WINFREY: I don't think that that's for me, Larry. I don't think that - first of all, you know, I'm going to be 50 next year, so my eggs are a little dried.

KING: No, but adopting. We discussed that last time. You said you might do it.

WINFREY: And now I feel --1 just feel that first of all, when I went to Africa, and I was telling you earlier that that was was the biggest moment of my life, truly there's a moment where all of those kids are in the room and they open their presents, and nothing like it. Nothing like that in the world. Just you could just feel - feel the spirit of every child. The hope and just the delight in their eyes. I could feel all of that. And I feel that I have a calling. I feel that part of that calling certainly has been to be on television, and to use television in a way that can make a difference. I want to be a voice for those children who don't a voice.

KING: You're mother Oprah to many?

WINFREY: Yes. Actually, they call me mother Oprah. At first, I was like, I don't know about this mother thing. But now, you know, the African custom is to - they don't address an adult by the first name. So if they met you for over five minutes, you'd be called Uncle Larry. And so, you either auntie or uncle or mum. I think the closer your relationships are, they call you mother. So...

KING: Wonderful.

WINFREY: So, all the children call me mother.

KING: We'll be back with more of Oprah and more of your calls.

Bill Cosby tomorrow.

WINFREY: Mr. Cos.

KING: Cos.

WINFREY: I'll be watching that.

KING: He has got a very funny book out about losing weight.

WINFREY: About losing weight.

KING: It is hysterical. We'll be back with Oprah. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WINFREY: "East of Eden." "East of Eden" by John Steinbeck (ph)l Yes! "East of Eden" by John Steinbeck!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: A couple of other things before we take some more calls.

WINFREY: OK, good. KING: A rumor you were going to buy "The Chicago Sun Times."

WINFREY: That was just -- it's a rumor I haven't heard.

KING: Would you want to own a newspaper?

WINFREY: No.

KING: Like owning a magazine?

WINFREY: I love being partners here with a magazine because part of the reason you have a partner is because you need distribution, and so you need other people. And for me, I need other people that knew what they were doing.

KING: And you let them run it.

WINFREY: And I let them run the business end of it and I still have a very strong voice - yes, sitting there today. Sitting at my table in the hotel room.

KING: Do you turn every page?

WINFREY: I read every page before it goes to print. Probably read every page twice.

KING: What did you make of the Rosie thing? WINFREY: I didn't make very much because the truth of the matter is, I really didn't follow the case. And I'm so concerned with my own stuff and business that...

KING: You understand the difficulty she went through? Apparently it's not easy.

WINFREY: This is what I didn't understand. I didn't understand --1 was surprised she didn't have editorial control. I was really surprised because...

KING: You wouldn't have done it without that?

WINFREY: No. You couldn't have because -- it's your name on there. So you're ultimately responsible. People aren't going to think -- many times, you know, I have Gayle, my best friend, Gayle King, is editor at large and Amy Gross is a wonderful editor-in-chief. I mean, she is outstanding. She gets me. And I have a great staff of support. But there are many times when we don't all agree. And sometimes Gayle will even call up and we'll be back and forth on the phone. And I'll say, is there a G on the cover of the magazine or is it an O?

And she'll say, OK, it's an O. It's an o.

KING: It's your baby?

WINFREY: Yes. Yes. And so, ultimately, I think you have to be the person, if your name is on it, and you want to be impeccable with your own name and your word, you have to have the control. So that's what surprised me about that whole situation.

KING: Many are annoyed you don't do more film.

WINFREY: Well, you know what, Larry? I did "Beloved."

I remember having - I had lunch with Harper Lee. Harper Lee -- "To Kill a Mockingbird." Because I was trying to get - yes, one of my favorite books of all time. I was trying to convince her to let us do it an as a book club selection and have her come on and be interviewed. She won't do it. She won't do it. And Harper Lee said to me, in a private lunch, she said, I said, you never wrote another book. She says, honey, because I said everything I wanted to say. And so, I feel that way about...

KING: Acting.

WINFREY: About "Beloved." After I did that, honey, I said everything I wanted to say. And so I feel strongly that, you know, that was - that was the moment for me. And "The Color Purple." I saw "The Color Purple" for the first time in 15 years the other day. I thought, I did a really good job. And I thought Whoopi was amazing.

KING: Yes, she was.

WINFREY: She was just amazing. KING: But you don't have a desire to...

WINFREY: I don't have any desire to return. What I have a desire to do is produce good films for other people. I'm now in the process of working with Kay Forte (ph) who runs my film office. And we are now readying ourselves to do a wonderful film based on the book by Zoro Neil Hurston.

Do you know that?

KING: No.

WINFREY: Zora Niel Hurston, called "Their Eyes Were Watching god." And we are doing that with Halle Berry as our star for an Oprah Winfrey presents for ABC next year. So, that's going to be really fun.

KING: Houston, Texas for Oprah. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Oprah. You are an angel.

WINFREY: Hi. Hi. Thank you.

CALLER: I would like to ask you, what motivates you on a daily basis?

What motivates you to get up everyday and do what you do.

KING: Yes, because you don't have to financially.

WINFREY: Well, I think this. I think everybody has to figure out a way - I think the real job of your life is figuring out what is the job of your life. What is your calling? And I think everybody is called here to earth to do something special. I think there's not a person born that doesn't have a gift to offer in some way. And so, your job is not just to do what your parents say, what your teachers say, what society says, but to figure out what your heart calling is and to be led by that. And for me, from a very early age, it was talking, talking in the church. I'm grounded, you know, spiritually having been brought up through the church. But spirituality means more to me than religion or church. Knowing yourself and known there's something bigger than yourself. So, what motivates me as a human being is being able to understand that I am here and what a gift it is. What a gift. Every single day. And that's not just rhetoric or, you know, blah blah celebrity stuff. It is just, jeez. I just sometimes I...

KING: Do you ever not want to go in?

WINFREY: I never not want - first of all, back to the question of what motivates me. What motivates me is being able to fulfilling my potential. And keep growing into myself. I finally, feel like now I'm going to be 50 so maybe I'm grown.

Was there a time when you said, am I an adult yet?

KING: Still haven't figured it out. Still not sure.

WINFREY: Yes.

KING: What do you want to do when we grow up?

WINFREY: What motivates me is trying to best what I've always done.

How do you get better?

How do you grow better? And so...

KING: Top yourself?

WINFREY: Not even topping as much as it is fulfilling the potential. We all have great potential here on earth.

KING: Chicago, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Miss Winfrey. You absolutely inspire me, and I was wondering what are some of your inspirations outside of Mr. Mandela as well as Miss Angelou. I was wonder what are your inspirations.

WINFREY: You already know them all. Nelson Mandela and Maya Angelou. Well, as I was just saying to the last caller, I'm really inspired by life. I really just think that particularly being able to pray or meditate or whatever you call it. Spending a moment with yourself every day allows you a sense of appreciation and because over the years I have talked to so many thousands of people like Larry has, not as many as Larry, but what I realized is that a common denominator for me, as I have seen it in the human experience is everybody is looking to be validated.

I mean, you will find this even with your boys, Larry, whether they're arguing with one another or fighting about something or having an angry moment with you. That if you can just stop and say, I hear what you're saying, this is what you want. Even if you can't give it to them. That everybody, whether you're 3 1/2 like your sons, 3, 4, or 44, that you want to be heard. You want to be heard. You want to know that you matter. And so, I try to do that in my personal life. I try to do that on the show. I try to do that as I extend myself out to the world.

KING: Shawn is better at that than me. Shawn does it well. Almost naturally. Because she's very faith- based.

WINFREY: Really?

KING: You're faith-based. Right?

WINFREY: And I'm faith-based.

KING: I'm drifting.

WINFREY: You're drifting?

KING: I drift, yeah.

WINFREY: How can you drift, Larry, when you know how valuable life really is? You who went through the whole heart thing? Didn't - wasn't that life changing for you?

KING: Yeah. But it didn't make me...

WINFREY: It didn't? Well, we'll talk after the show. Surprised. OK.

KING: I knew she'd do this to me.

WINFREY: No, I'm surprised. Because normally when that happens, that is a really life changing...

KING: I know. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WINFREY: Wake-up call.

KING: It did...

(CROSSTALK)

WINFREY: I don't mean just --1 don't mean just, you know, eat less fat. I mean, that you understand in a deeper sense. KING: Let me get a break, OK?

WINFREY: OK.

KING: It's my show.

WINFREY: OK.

KING: As we go to break, she received a distinguished Marion Anderson award, the annual prize, an artist and humanitarian, good. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WINFREY: I believe that we've all been called to greatness in our own way, and I believe that God has a plan for all of us. My prayer is, God use me. Use me to a good that is greater than my own, greater than I know. So, it is my hope and my prayer that I can take the beacon of possibility that became a torch of greatness in the symbol of Marion Anderson's life, and take that torch and carry it forward and light up the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WINFREY: It's almost over, right, isn't it?

KING: Yeah. We're back with Oprah Winfrey, who also got the Bob Hope Award. Right?

WINFREY: Yes. That was a moment...

(CROSSTALK)

KING: I was there.

WINFREY: Yes, and you know what, Cos got it this past year, too.

KING: Yeah. I know. There you are getting it.

WINFREY: There I am. You know what? That was an amazing moment for me. It was amazing moment.

KING: Because?

WINFREY: Because.

KING: You've gotten so many awards, why this one?

WINFREY: Because I looked out into the audience, and all of these people - all of these famous people were standing up, and they were, like, applauding me. And I had...

KING: There they are.

WINFREY: Yeah, and I had one of - yeah, I'm getting ready to go into the ugly cry. Right there. I'm getting ready to go into the - oh, I'm going to go into the ugly cry, where you, like, try not to cry and your face starts to contort.

And just as I walked off the stage, with Tom Hanks, I remember turning around and looking back and thinking, did that happen? That just happened. It just was like one of those out of body things that - and also, when I accepted it, I knew that I planned to do a lot of great work in Africa, with orphans and be the voice of children, so I felt like I don't even know why I'm getting this, because I haven't even done anything to deserve to get this award.

But just the respect that I felt from all of the other people in the room really kind of knocked me over in that moment.

KING: What is it from coming from economically deprived chaos to not being asked what something cost? To hit that in life? What is that like?

WINFREY: You know, what's interesting about it, I don't know if this happens to you. But I could basically...

KING: Buy anything.

WINFREY: Buy anything. And I still check the prices on things that I used to check the prices on. It's just...

KING: You never change.

WINFREY: You just can't get over some things like that.

KING: Delight having you.

WINFREY: Thank you. Thank you.

KING: Let's not so long (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WINFREY: Not so long. And let's match up the next time.

KING: OK.

WINFREY: This is pretty good, without a conversation.

KING: OK. We should plan this. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WINFREY: OK.

KING: Oprah Winfrey. What a lady.

I'll be back to tell you about tomorrow night right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: One change in the week's lineup. Jimmy Carter, scheduled originally tomorrow, will air on Friday. Tomorrow night, Bill Cosby will be our special guest for the hour.

Aaron Brown will host "NEWSNIGHT."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com Copyright 2003 American Broadcasting Companies, Inc. ABC News Transcripts

SHOW: PRIMETIME LIVE (10:00 PM ET) - ABC

December 17, 2003 Wednesday

LENGTH: 6088 words

HEADLINE: PRIMETIME LIVE OPRAH IN AFRICA

BODY:

ANNOUNCER

Oprah, and the children Santa Claus never finds. OPRAH WINFREY, TV TALK SHOW HOST

One, two, three. Open your presents.

ANNOUNCER

Now, what Oprah calls her life's greatest mission. Saving the babies, the seven-year-olds, the orphaned and needy of an entire nation.

OPRAH WINFREY

It's not just that your mother is dead and your father is dead. It's that you have nobody. You are orphaned. You are alone.

ANNOUNCER

Diane Sawyer, with Oprah Winfrey. A personal journey to Africa, and how it turned into the calling of a lifetime.

OPRAH WINFREY

I think the world has no idea of what is to come if we do not do something now.

ANNOUNCER

The remarkable faces and stories of need she says we can't afford to ignore.

OPRAH WINFREY

I was so haunted by Thanda, haunted.

ANNOUNCER

But from so much pain, surprising joy, and innocent laughter.

OPRAH WINFREY

And the little girl said to me, "so you live in America, ma'am. Do you know Britney Spears?"

ANNOUNCER Diane Sawyer and Oprah Winfrey. A "Primetime" special for all the holidays. "Oprah in Africa." Now, from New York, Diane Sawyer.

graphics: Oprah in Africa

DIANE SAWYER, ABC NEWS

(Off Camera) Good evening. And welcome to this special edition of "Primetime." There are probably are only a handful of people in this country who can stand in their kitchens one day, have an idea, and then turn it into a world- changing event. Oprah Winfrey, as everyone knows, has given away tens and tens of millions of dollars in America. But a while back, she had one of those ideas for Christmas. She took her own cameras along with her. And as you're about to see, she ended up in a place in her own heart, not on any map.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Africa, a continent pulsing with hope and longing. A place of radiant smiles, even as it sings a song of sadness. And there is someone that wants you to know that every minute in Africa, 64 more people will die of AIDS.

OPRAH WINFREY

I have seen mothers and grandmothers literally in the trenches bringing up the dead in wheelbarrows and helping people to bury their dead.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) An ocean of death, leaving behind a whole generation of children without parents, food, or a doorway out. 11 million of them and more everyday.

OPRAH WINFREY

Somehow I thought that these children were being taken care of. I think I did not get, until I actually followed some of the children home. Oh, it means you have nobody. It's not just that your mother is dead and your father is dead. It's that you have nobody. You are orphaned. You are alone.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Oprah Winfrey, that uniquely American inspiration. Superstar and best friend to millions of Americans she's never met. She was also a woman standing at a kind of crossroads about a year ago, even though she thought she was just at her new house, making decorating choices and musing on the holidays.

OPRAH WINFREY

You know, just consumed by the tile choices. And what am I going to do with the kitchen? And should the color be this? And what am I going to do with the cabinets? And should it be beveled glass or not? And I was thinking that I was going to make the best Christmas I ever had moving into my new house.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) As everyone knows, America's first black female billionaire grew up without electricity, running water, or a horizon. So her idle reflection about her best Christmas surprised her.

OPRAH WINFREY

And I thought, well, you know, the best Christmas I ever remember having was when I was 12 years old and living with my mother in Milwaukee. And my mother was on welfare, taking care of me and another half-sister and brother. And she'd come to me as the oldest and said, "we won't be having Christmas this year." And I said "why not?" And she said, "because we don't have enough money." And I said, "well, what about Santa Claus?" And she says, "we don't have money to pay Santa Claus." And I thought, you have to pay him? Santa Claus gets paid? What about the naughty or nice thing? No, she says, "we don't have money for Santa Claus. And don't ask me anymore questions."

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) No money for a single present. She went to bed in shame and heart break.

OPRAH WINFREY

And I remember thinking in that moment, I was thinking, I can fake it for tomorrow, but what am I going to do when I go to school 'cause you're going to have lots of kids. "How am I going to save face?" Is what I thought. 'Cause I, too, was embarrassed because I realized that we are really poor, we must really be poor, we must really be poor.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) And then, late at night, a little girl is amazed.

OPRAH WINFREY

We'd all gone to bed and I remember the doorbell ringing. And three nuns showed up at our house. And they had brought food, a turkey. And they brought, a food basket. And they brought toys for my half- sister and half-brother and for myself. And I really didn't care what the toy was. As it turned out, it was a Tammy doll. But it didn't matter to me what it was because I thought, now, I have a story. And that, in my memory, was the strongest feeling I'd ever had of somebody lifting me up. Just their kindness really made me feel so much better about myself that I never forgot it. So I thought, "how could I do that for somebody else? How could I do that?" And I thought "Africa."

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Wait. Why?

OPRAH WINFREY

Why Africa? I thought Africa because I'd had previous conversations with Nelson Mandela.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Nelson Mandela, revered father of South African freedom, who told her about the orphans and the children so poor that at Christmas, he'd seen them walk miles just hoping to get a balloon or a whistle. So she decided to phone the staff of her foundation and say she was going to go to Africa for Christmas and take presents to tens of thousands of kids.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) At one point you had to say, "what am I going to do for Christmas?" And the next thing you know, you're organizing a giant project in South Africa. Did you say "I'm crazy"?

OPRAH WINFREY

No, I didn't. I never said, "I'm crazy." Only for a moment did everybody go, "you want to do what?" So, back in Chicago, we started picking out clothes, jeans and shoes for every child.

DIANE SAWYER (Voice Over) You're looking at some of her private tapes, a kind of video diary of an impulse becoming a power surge of purpose. First, she sent people out to research which gifts would bring light into an African child's eyes.

OPRAH WINFREY

We spoke to some orphanages and were told that the girls had never seen a black doll. Can you imagine, there are no black dolls? There are no black dolls. I had every black doll in America in my office auditioning for the chance to be in the South African gift packet.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) And the winner was?

OPRAH WINFREY

And the winner was Ashley.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) So her brilliant idea of emotion. Was it mostly going to make her feel good?

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Let me ask a couple of the skeptic's questions here, what difference is one day going to make in the lives of children?

OPRAH WINFREY

I knew that one day would make a world of difference. Because you will forever, just like I have never forgotten the day the nuns came to see me.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) So, to give other children a day to remember, on December 3rd, her curious caravan arrived in a tiny town just outside Johannesburg. She had hired 100 people to mobilize it all and get word out through villages and orphanages and schools that children were invited to a Christmas party. A tent was raised. The snacks were ready. She admits, she didn't have a clue what would happen next.

OPRAH WINFREY

The first day we were just like, "is anybody gonna show up? Oh, my goodness." So when you see those children coming over the horizon you're like "oh, they knew."

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Coming, and how they came. The barefoot. The hungry. Many of them orphans, marching like tiny veterans in a war the world has ignored.

OPRAH WINFREY

For hours and hours and miles and miles. When I say miles, I mean like, 10 miles, 12 miles, to get to this party that they really don't know what's going on.

DIANE SAWYER (Voice Over) First thing, something brand new for so many of the children. Their feet are measured. And then Polaroid photos, when they'd never even had a photo of any kind.

OPRAH WINFREY

I remember explaining to a child the first time we took their Polaroid, a little girl had on a little red polka-dot dress. And was saying, "see, this is this, and that's you." Everybody here today will receive a present. Every black girl should have a black doll. All the boys get a football. When you walk out today, you get a brand-new pair of sneakers.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) As they open their packages, Oprah, so sure of her instincts, is in for a surprise. Her friend Gail King noticed it first.

OPRAH WINFREY

She's saying, "I can't believe these kids are more excited about the clothes." Gail and I, who had personally hand- picked the dolls, we want everybody to feel about the dolls as we did. Clothes are what makes you feel that you're not as poor as everybody else. And I know what that feels like. They love calculators. They love books. These children really do understand the importance of an education. They all know, they all know that it's their only way out.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Who did they think you were?

OPRAH WINFREY

They didn't know who I was. I was an American girl who had come to say, "this is your day. This is your party." They're like, "okay." I was backstage at one of these big tent events, and a little girl said to me, "so you live in America, ma'am, do you know Britney Spears?" Do you know Britney Spears? I go, "well, I kind of know of her." And she says, "do you live near her?" I said "well, if you consider the United States near, yeah I do. Yeah, I do. We're kind of close." I know, I love that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) What was it you most wanted them to take home?

OPRAH WINFREY

I most wanted them to hear what I felt from the nuns. I remembered you. I was thinking of you. And I came all this way, across the ocean, to say, I love you.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) And in this moment, something else had begun to happen. These children and the immensity of their need blasted its way into the crossroads where America's most famous television star had been standing, and started her on a whole new path.

OPRAH WINFREY

Everything in my life, I keep asking the question of "what does this mean?" I have this show and I have this. What does this mean? It all came together for me in that first experience. Because I realized in that moment, in that moment, joy has a texture. Joy has a texture. You can really, if there's enough of it, you can feel it in the room. You can just feel it. I had a joy headache. I was like, so full from these children, from these children's joy, I was so filled and full that I was sick. I was sick with joy. I thought, I'm going to pass out. And I'm telling you, I said in that moment, "okay God, I get it. I get it." DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) But what did she get? And should she be doing it in America instead of Africa? Where was Oprah Winfrey heading next? When "Primetime" continues.

graphics: Primetime

commercial break

ANNOUNCER

"Oprah in Africa" continues.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Over the next two weeks, the white tent would go up and down 12 times, Oprah and her team covering 100 miles. And the word started spreading to children from wretched villages filled with the dying, that an American woman who'd once suffered in poverty loved them.

OPRAH WINFREY

And you get there in the morning and there would be 1,000 children lined up before dawn.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Did you worry that a lot of them might be children who weren't children in need?

OPRAH WINFREY

Oh, no. We didn't worry about that at all because you were out in such a rural area, nobody has anything.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) The small faces with the big, excited eyes started yielding up their individual stories. Again, Oprah's private diary.

OPRAH WINFREY

I knew that everyone had a story of hardship. Like this little girl, whose teacher brought her over to see our staff doctor. Under her homemade bandages, he found a severe case of scabies, a painful skin disease. We arranged for her to get more treatment. But we would later learn the little girl, like so many others, was also HIV positive.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) A little girl in the tent. And these little boys about to go to an orphanage, run by a woman named Heather Reynolds.

OPRAH WINFREY

These two, ages 8 and 10, just lost their mother to AIDS. Visiting their house for the last time, Heather helped them collect a few belongings before taking them to live at the orphanage.

OPRAH WINFREY You hear 11 million. 11 million doesn't mean any difference than 10 million to you. But 11 million would be if everyone of the children in New York and California under the age of 14 was left to raise themselves. They're just on the streets, living in shanties, stealing and prostituting and doing whatever they can to stay alive. And nobody ever gives them a sense of value, importance or, forget manners, just that you mean something in the world.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Another study from the African country of Zambia, 47 percent of child prostitutes are orphans. While others barely survive on the streets, like this little boy.

ORPHAN, MALE

Go on the street and beg in traffic. There's a school I want to go to. But I was told I couldn't go now. There's no room for me. I miss my mother, I wish she hadn't died. And I know if she were alive my life would be better.

OPRAH WINFREY

Ten years from now the estimate is that there will be 45 million more people with AIDS. It means a world of utter chaos and children grown to adult rebellion against themselves, against their community, against their state, their country, and anybody else who's in the way.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) I think a lot of people here, though, think that there are villages to raise those children. That there are extended families that move in.

OPRAH WINFREY

There are some families who are already overextended. I have seen a family often share what they have with a family of eight. And, you know, sit there and try to divide the parcels so that everybody could have something to eat.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) And there's very little free education in Africa. So, all the children forced to raise other children have no way of earning a dime for education.

OPRAH WINFREY

15-year-old Thanda and her sister Kholisile were left to fend for themselves after both their parents died of AIDS.

ORPHAN, FEMALE

My sister and I eat porridge or potatoes. Sometimes beans. But we never have enough. Granny comes sometimes but we usually are alone.

OPRAH WINFREY

The girls showed me the 2-room shack where they live. They are vulnerable with no one to protect them. They once returned home to find a drunken man in their bed. How long have you been taking care of your sister? Since your mother died?

ORPHAN

Since last year.

OPRAH WINFREY There is a moment where I ask Thanda "is there anything I can do for you? Is there anything that you want?" She said "a uniform." A uniform? You want a uniform? You don't want a bed? You don't want a heater? You don't want electricity? You want a uniform? She said, "a uniform, so that I can go to school, ma'am." And a uniform costs about six American dollars. And you can't, you're not allowed to go to school without one. And many families have to choose between food, less food, and do I earn the money for my child to have a uniform? I see myself in their eyes and feel myself in their hearts but I came from that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Barefoot, as she was. In poverty. But it raises a question, why doesn't she simply take on the poor children here at home? Why those faces?

OPRAH WINFREY

It's very different being poor and being hungry and being without hope than being poor, hungry without hope, and motherless.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You really believe that poverty, abject poverty in this country ...

OPRAH WINFREY

Oh, it's very different. Oh, very different. Oh, very different. Because in this country, you still have the opportunity. This is the greatest country in the world. And you do have the opportunity. In this country, it is against the law to leave young children taking care of young children. In this country, if you're not in school, somebody is eventually gonna come knocking on your door and say, here's a school a you'd better get in it. In this country, opportunity exists for, not only progress, but for unlimited success. And I know that there would be people who would say "well, what about this country?" Oh, it... then go, go see for yourself. It is an entirely different world. When you're sitting in a hut with a bowl and that is your number one possession and only possession. Now, what is interesting, I was so haunted by Thanda, haunted. I mean, when we left that place and I'd asked her, you know, "what can I do for you," and she said "a uniform," and I asked her about her dreams and she said she wanted to be a doctor. I went back to my lovely hotel and I couldn't stop thinking about her because was raining that night. And, I thought about the rain pouring in because, you know, basically there was no roof. And I thought, "where are they in that hut? Where are they? How are they even staying dry?"

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) But she saw, give a child an opportunity, even a small one, and everything can change.

OPRAH WINFREY

So I found a, an orphanage home that would take her in, her and her sister. So, I am sponsoring her now. And I just saw her last week. And she is a completely different person.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Winfrey says, from her hair to her pride, to the way she's thriving in school.

OPRAH WINFREY

When you see those children and what they've had to endure and overcome. And there still is this huge light.

ANNOUNCER Esona's story. A little girl who changed Oprah's life forever.

OPRAH WINFREY

We're in the hospital. And she goes to hug me. I can still feel that.

ANNOUNCER

The girl she would call her own, when "Oprah in Africa" returns.

commercial break

graphics: Oprah in Africa

OPRAH WINFREY

Esona is a only child. A sweet and gentle 9-year-old. But just a few years ago, she began to wonder if her ailing mother might have AIDS.

ESONA, 9 YEAR OLD

I asked my mother, "do you have AIDS?" And my mother said, "yes, I do have AIDS." I cried. And then, they come and take my mother to hospital. My mother tell me, I must not tell anyone what was she have. And I said, I won't tell anyone.

OPRAH WINFREY

I have to say that Esona is, for me, the defining moment about what being an AIDS orphan is all about. Here's just a little girl who had come to our party and at first was very shy about it. So, what I said to my staff when we went there, that every child that you come in contact with, you must have personal contact and have a moment with that child, to let them know that they matter. I would walk through the lines daily and listen to, you know, other staff members saying, "you're just the loveliest girl. I love your eyes. And I hope you have the happiest Christmas of your life."

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Another small gift given by someone who never forgot when she was a sad 8-year-old. And a fancy woman said this to her.

OPRAH WINFREY

"You are as pretty as a speckled pup." She says to me, "you're as pretty as a speckled pup." Now, I didn't know what the speckled pup was. And she said, you have such beautiful, bee-stung lips. Now, I didn't know what a bee-stung lip was. I knew that I had big lips. But I remember going home at eight years old, after church, staring at myself in the mirror because Tish Hooker, who was a pretty lady, had said to me that I was pretty.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) That little girl, Esona, had a mirror, too.

OPRAH WINFREY

There's a little cracked mirror that she's looking at herself. That's her only mirror in the whole house.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) But the mirror was not the only crack in her life. OPRAH WINFREY

Your mother is in the clinic. Do you think, you were saying to me that you think your mother is going to come home? Do you think she's going to get better?

ESONA

I don't know.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) In the car, when you're driving along, and you ask if her mom will be okay.

OPRAH WINFREY

That was one of the most truthful moments. When I asked her, do you think your mother will be all right? There's a moment where she hesitates. And I can feel her, I can feel her trying to decide, do I give you the party line? Do I give you what I think you want to hear? Or do I really tell you the truth? So, that was a powerful moment. Because, I think, even for her, because nobody discusses it. Not her grandmother, not her cousins. Nobody ever says the AIDS word. So, for her, that was a moment of clarification.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Oprah takes Esona to the hospital to see her mother who, by the way, is just 29 years old. There is no public health service to provide this hospital with any drugs.

OPRAH WINFREY

Hello, I'm Oprah. Hello. Can I ask you a question? So, you know you have aids, right?

ESONA'S MOTHER, FEMALE

Yes.

OPRAH WINFREY

How did you get it? Do you know?

ESONA'S MOTHER

I was having a miscarriage. They tell me to take the blood for HIV.

OPRAH WINFREY

So, were you able to get treatment for the AIDS? She's not being treated for AIDS? You know she has HIV. But the public policy doesn't allow you to treat her for HIV? You don't have the drugs. You don't have the drugs. It makes no sense to me.

OPRAH WINFREY

I said, "what are you treating her for?" And they said, diarrhea. You're treating her for diarrhea? Yes, we're treating her for diarrhea. And she has some cramping in her legs. So -you're giving her cramping medicine and you're giving her medicine for diarrhea, when you know she has AIDS?

OPRAH WINFREY You have a really strong spirit. I can see your spirit is strong.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Esona puts the photo taken at the white tent by her mother's side. Last March, she buried her. Oprah decided to sponsor Esona for life, too.

OPRAH WINFREY

There's that moment where we're in the hospital and she goes to hug me. I can still feel that. Once you've seen it, I think, and felt it and experienced it, you cannot pretend that you didn't. And so. I think, to ignore it or to be in denial about it, or to act as though, oh, that's those people and that's their country, I would be judged for that. In the final hour, I would be judged for that. The world has no idea of what is to come if we do not do something now.

ANNOUNCER

A little boy's triumph against impossible odds.

ANNOUNCER

Next on this "Primetime" special.

commercial break

graphics: Oprah in Africa

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) As we continue, now, with Oprah Winfrey, something to keep in mind. In the United States, more than 66 percent of the people who have HIV get treatment for AIDS. But in Africa, where more than 30 million people are infected, only 2 percent will get access to the drugs that can make all the difference.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Making a difference with a tent is not always predictable. A storm blows up. Thank Heaven most of the children had left just minutes before.

OPRAH WINFREY

All of us feel blessed to have not only survived this experience, but to come through it strengthened with a greater realization of how quickly, how short, how exacting life can be. We thank you.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) But the sun comes out. And the traveling mission resumes.

OPRAH WINFREY

Our journey took us through Kwazulu Natal, a region where one in three people are infected with HIV. As adults die of AIDS in the huts and tiny shacks that dot the countryside here, their children are often left behind to survive on their own. We visited one of the region's few orphanages "Gods Golden Acre." Heather Reynolds rescues children have no place else go.

OPRAH WINFREY How many children do you have here?

HEATHER REYNOLDS, ORPHANAGE OPERATOR

72.

OPRAH WINFREY

72 children reside on ground here?

HEATHER REYNOLDS

Most of the little children you see here have been so sick. But it's not a place of sadness. You look at them all and they've all got stories. The girls that have been raped. The girls that have been abused, from the most traumatic backgrounds.

OPRAH WINFREY

When I visited the nursery I was just overwhelmed to see so many sick babies. Here, they often care for 10 or 12 at a time, many stricken with AIDS.

HEATHER REYNOLDS

Little Marcus came to us. He was HIV positive. He about 7 months, nobody gave him much chance to survive. And he was so thin and it took months and months.

OPRAH WINFREY

Heather explained how Marcus was treated with an anti-retroviral for months. And when he was tested again, to everyone's amazement, he tested negative for HIV. You are little victory boy. You are a winner. You are a winner. That is an amazing story.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) As all of us in the US know, the new generation of drugs can prevent transmission of AIDS from mother to child in 50 percent of the cases. But it doesn't happen in Africa, because apart from the money, there's so little education, so much stigma.

OPRAH WINFREY

Because people are so shamed by it, they're willing to die from it, because the shame is so great. Because you are abandoned by your family. The moment you tell your husband that you have the disease, even though he's probably the one that gave it to you, he abandons you.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) So much cultural and government resistance on the topic. Though President Clinton and Bill Gates have been working to persuade governments in Africa and drug companies to begin dropping prices for drugs on the continent.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) I guess a lot of Americans would say, hey, their governments are creating this problem.

OPRAH WINFREY You know, we know of many cases throughout the world where the governments haven't done what we felt was necessary to benefit the people. But we know how to make a difference in people's lives.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) You're really not tempted to go and just lobby government officials?

OPRAH WINFREY

Well, I think it eventually will come to that. But in the meantime, in the meantime, I'm just one person doing what I can. I'm one person with a great big life, who has a lot of access.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) She's asked the South African press to try to help break some of the myths. One of them we heard, that some African men believe sex with a virgin will cure AIDS.

OPRAH WINFREY

The myth is there and the myth continues to spread because there isn't enough information. There isn't enough real education about what is the truth about AIDS. I visited one of the orphanages there where a young girl, every time she went to fetch water, was raped. And when she came to the orphanage, one of the first things she asked the head of the orphanage there was, "ma'am, please don't make me fetch water."

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) And there was another child who came into Oprah's life, one struggling on the streets.

OPRAH WINFREY

This girl, wanting help from no one, struggled up a long dirt path with her food parcel. She lived in a tiny shack, the walls covered in cardboard to keep out the cold. But when she began unpacking her gifts, we knew we'd made a small difference in her life.

ORPHAN

This is the most beautiful outfit I have ever had. I'm so lucky.

OPRAH WINFREY

And she's sitting in the room with the -with the doll and saying, "this is the best day I've ever had. These are the best clothes I've ever had." And watching her in that moment, I thought, if this child can find joy in this moment in these circumstances, then I think that myself and the rest of the world needs to know that we have absolutely nothing to ever complain about.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Didn't she say, "I'm so lucky"?

OPRAH WINFREY

Yes. She said, she said, "I'm so lucky."

ANNOUNCER

What Oprah realizes about not having children of her own. OPRAH WINFREY

It is more than a notion being a parent. I do not have he greatest of mothering instincts, I would have to say.

ANNOUNCER

When this "Primetime" special continues.

commercial break

ANNOUNCER

"Oprah in Africa," continues.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) So, what is the answer? It wouldn't be like Oprah Winfrey to present a problem without some sense of a solution. As you see all the time on her show when she reaches out to American women. But a note, in so many countries in Africa, women have few legal rights to property, to the promise of their own future. So, Winfrey started thinking about an answer that comes straight from her own childhood.

OPRAH WINFREY

I grew up like many of you, many of you. No running water, no electricity as a little girl. You can overcome poverty and despair in your life with an education. I am living proof of that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) By the final mile, 50,000 children have had a Christmas day of joy.

OPRAH WINFREY

So, I thought, well, what can I do? So, for me, education has been the road to success. To me, education is freedom. And I believe the future of this country of Africa will depend upon the leadership of its women. And that's just not a feminist rhetoric. It really is the truth, as I see it. And as do a lot of the other leaders of Africa see it. When you're driving out in the morning, it's the women who are going to get the water to bake the morning's porridge. It's the women who have to gather the wood to heat the water. It's the women who farm the fields. In my lifetime, we're not gonna change the patriarchal system there. But you can, I have seen where you just -just the slightest word of encouragement empowers women. The very idea that you can take care of yourself.

OPRAH WINFREY

This little girl came here when it was discovered that she'd been abused repeated by neighbors. Her name is Kandisile. And her teachers say she is one of the brightest.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) UNICEF, in fact, has released a report saying the education of girls will be the most effective tool for raising productivity in Africa.

OPRAH WINFREY

I went to shanty schools where 600 children are crowded into a box car and offered to pay for the teachers, because the teachers many times don't get paid. So I thought, if I could guarantee their salaries for a period of time, three years, which I've agreed to do, to see how that works. Then at least you will create some stability in that little community of teachers knowing that they're going to be paid.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) With her foundation she's earmarking a full-scale program to build schools for girls throughout Africa, starting with a $10 million leadership academy for 450 of them in South Africa. Scheduled to open in 2006. When she went to Zambia recently, she knew she had to stay focused.

OPRAH WINFREY

You can't do everything, otherwise you become totally overwhelmed. You can become so overwhelmed that you end up doing nothing. So, I cannot take on the thousands of children.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) But where do you draw the limit personally?

OPRAH WINFREY

Okay, personally, I can do a lot. And I have a lot. But I don't have -enough to save the children of Africa. You know, Gail was saying, well, I don't know I think you can use your ... I go, I do not have that much money, okay? So I'm going to use my voice to extend into the world to those children who can't, who can't speak for themselves.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) Meanwhile, everyone's saying back in the States, that this season, Winfrey's show has a new kind of exuberance, a new kind of joy.

OPRAH WINFREY

I feel like I'm kind of grown now. I'm gonna be turning the big 5-0 next year. I really finally do feel grown-up. I feel like I've got that. And I feel like the message of people being able to triumph in their lives is a message that we can carry through many themes.

DIANE SAWYER

(Voice Over) And she says, maybe this is why she never had a conventional marriage and never had children. That these are the children waiting for her. At one point, she says, she even thought of bringing the children she sponsors home.

OPRAH WINFREY

My original plan was that I was gonna bring them back this Christmas. We'd all move in. Yeah, we'd all move into my house. And just, just a week ago, I changed my mind about that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Why aren't you ready to take on the responsibility of raising them yourself?

OPRAH WINFREY

Well, because I think, as I've always said, that it is more than a notion being a parent.

DIANE SAWYER (Voice Over) She laughs at herself, saying she imagined their daily needs and what real mothers do.

OPRAH WINFREY

I do not have the greatest of mothering instincts, I would have to say. What I do have is an ability to affect, on a broader scale, a number of children in a way that I think can be impactful. But I thought, okay, that was a good decision. That was a good decision.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) But what do you do with what you've seen and the guilt?

OPRAH WINFREY

Guilt? I don't have guilt.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) But how do you go back to the tile and the house?

OPRAH WINFREY

Oh.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) And everyday just knowing you could, this could be your entire life, every minute, everyday.

OPRAH WINFREY

No, because you do what you can.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) So, Mother Teresa's one thing.

OPRAH WINFREY

Yeah. I am not Mother Teresa. I'm not Mother Teresa, nor do I wish to be. I think that what she did was extraordinary for her. That is what she can do, what she did. And I'm going to do what I can.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) So what will your Christmas be like?

OPRAH WINFREY

Well, I will tell you that I finally do get to move in with the tile. This year, I'm moving in with the tile. I came back early so that I could complete what I started last year. But my Christmas will be, I will spend, Stedman and I will spend a really quiet Christmas. We don't exchange gifts, because we have everything. And I will call my children. I call them my children. I will call all of my children in Africa that day. And would have made sure that they had a good Christmas.

DIANE SAWYER (Off Camera) So, to the person who asks you, "what's a one-word sentence for what you are doing in Africa?" What do you say?

OPRAH WINFREY

No person has asked me that.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Okay.

OPRAH WINFREY

Okay.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) What are you doing in Africa?

OPRAH WINFREY

Well, in Africa, I am trying to create a sense of inspiration and aspiration to a life that is better. In the United States, I am trying to raise the consciousness of Americans so that we under how difficult life is, so that we can help life to be better.

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Because we owe it? Because?

OPRAH WINFREY

Because it is necessary. And because we are human beings living on the planet with other human beings. I think that whenever any of us extends ourself in kindness to another person, that that kindness leaves a heart print. And depending on the level of sincerity and the depth of that kindness, that heart print can last forever.

ANNOUNCER

This "Primetime" special edition, "Oprah in Africa" will continue.

commercial break

DIANE SAWYER

(Off Camera) Somebody said, the future has to belong to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. And if you want more information on how you can help the AIDS orphans of Africa, go to our web-site, at abcnews.com. And of course, you can see more of Oprah's incredible journey on her own show, coming Monday, December 22nd. That's it for us tonight. Charlie and I will be back with an all-new "Primetime" tomorrow night. Until then, as they like they like to say in Africa, be safe, go well.

LANGUAGE: ENGLISH

LOAD-DATE: December 18, 2003