COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
Senate Official Hansard No. 10, 2004 TUESDAY, 10 AUGUST 2004
FORTIETH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—NINTH PERIOD
BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE
INTERNET The Journals for the Senate are available at http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/work/journals/index.htm
Proof and Official Hansards for the House of Representatives, the Senate and committee hearings are available at http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard
For searching purposes use http://parlinfoweb.aph.gov.au
SITTING DAYS—2004 Month Date February 10, 11, 12 March 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 10, 11, 22, 23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 31 April 1 May 11, 12, 13 June 15, 16, 17, 18, 21, 22, 23, 24 August 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 30, 31 September 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 27, 28, 29, 30 October 5, 6, 7, 25, 26, 27, 28 November 22, 23, 24, 25, 29, 30 December 1, 2
RADIO BROADCASTS Broadcasts of proceedings of the Parliament can be heard on the following Parliamentary and News Net- work radio stations, in the areas identified.
CANBERRA 1440 AM SYDNEY 630 AM NEWCASTLE 1458 AM GOSFORD 98.1 FM BRISBANE 936 AM GOLD COAST 95.7 FM MELBOURNE 1026 AM ADELAIDE 972 AM PERTH 585 AM HOBART 747 AM NORTHERN TASMANIA 92.5 FM DARWIN 102.5 FM
CONTENTS
TUESDAY, 10 AUGUST
Committees— Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—Meeting...... 25971 US Free Trade Agreement Implementation Bill 2004 and US Free Trade Agreement Implementation (Customs Tariff) Bill 2004— In Committee...... 25971 Questions Without Notice— Former Parliamentarians: Business Appointments...... 25988 Industry: Resources Sector...... 25989 Former Parliamentarians: Business Appointments...... 25990 Small Business: Growth ...... 25991 Former Parliamentarians: Business Appointments...... 25992 Aviation: Regional Airport Landing Fees...... 25993 Older Australians...... 25995 Distinguished Visitors...... 25995 Questions Without Notice— Older Australians...... 25996 Iraq: Allawi Government...... 25996 Sport: Drug Testing ...... 25998 Social Welfare: Fraud ...... 25999 Liberal Party of Australia: Electoral Fundraising...... 26000 Questions Without Notice: Additional Answers— Social Welfare: Age Pensions...... 26001 Questions Without Notice: Take Note of Answers— Intelligence: Weapons of Mass Destruction ...... 26002 Petitions— Military Detention: Australian Citizens...... 26009 Notices— Presentation ...... 26009 Postponement ...... 26012 Cigarette Vending Machines ...... 26012 Council of Australian Governments...... 26013 Parliament: Three-Year Terms ...... 26014 Environment: Great Barrier Reef...... 26014 Airservices Australia...... 26014 Delegation Reports— President’s Visits to the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland and the People’s Republic of China...... 26015 Committees— Environment, Communications, Information Technology and the Arts References Committee—Report ...... 26015 Membership...... 26022 Crimes Legislation Amendment (Telecommunications Offences and Other Measures) Bill (No. 2) 2004— First Reading ...... 26023 Second Reading...... 26023 Indigenous Education (Targeted Assistance) Amendment Bill 2004— First Reading ...... 26025 Second Reading...... 26025
CONTENTS—continued
US Free Trade Agreement Implementation Bill 2004 and US Free Trade Agreement Implementation (Customs Tariff) Bill 2004— In Committee...... 26027 Adjournment— Nixon, Mr Richard ...... 26053 Australian Customs Service ...... 26054 National Stem Cell Centre...... 26056 Child Abuse...... 26058 Discovering Democracy Project...... 26061 Immigration: Detainees ...... 26063 Tasmania: Office of State Governor ...... 26065 Environment: Koalas...... 26068 Queensland: Services ...... 26070 Queensland: Atherton Tableland ...... 26072 Liberal Party: Western Australia...... 26076 Political Parties: Candidates ...... 26080 Documents— Tabling...... 26082 Tabling...... 26082 Questions on Notice— Medicare: Bulk-billing—(Question No. 2935) ...... 26083 Defence: Australian Defence Force Academy—(Question No. 3011) ...... 26084 Taxation: Goods and Services Tax—(Question No. 3041)...... 26084 Defence: Conscription—(Question No. 3058) ...... 26085 Environment: Grey Nurse Shark—(Question No. 3063) ...... 26085
Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25971
Tuesday, 10 August 2004 quarantine component of the free trade ————— agreement. What the particular amendment we are debating at the moment does is to The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. ensure that the joint committee with the re- Paul Calvert) took the chair at 12.30 p.m. sponsibility to implement the US-Australia and read prayers. free trade agreement, which has people ap- COMMITTEES pointed to it by the executive of the Austra- Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade lian government and the executive of the References Committee United States government, holds meetings Meeting which are open and provides a report to the Senator MACKAY (Tasmania) (12.31 parliament on membership and attendance at p.m.)—by leave—At the request of the Chair the meetings, meetings that have been held, of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade issues considered and recommendations References Committee, Senator Hutchins, I made at the meetings. move: This is the committee that is given the re- That the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade sponsibility of implementing the US- References Committee be authorised to hold a Australia free trade agreement, a committee public meeting during the sitting of the Senate to which our government and the Bush ad- today, from 3.30 pm to 5 pm, to take evidence for ministration appoint individuals, and it, not the committee’s inquiry into the effectiveness of the parliament, becomes the responsible the Australian military justice system. committee for the implementation of the US- Question agreed to. Australia free trade agreement. The amend- US FREE TRADE AGREEMENT ment that the Australian Greens have moved IMPLEMENTATION BILL 2004 brings back the responsibility for the imple- mentation of the US-Australia free trade US FREE TRADE AGREEMENT agreement to this parliament, rather than al- IMPLEMENTATION (CUSTOMS lowing the executive government—be it a TARIFF) BILL 2004 Howard or a Latham government—to hand In Committee that responsibility over to a committee to Consideration resumed from 9 August. which they appoint individuals. US FREE TRADE AGREEMENT Paragraph (4) of the first amendment on IMPLEMENTATION BILL 2004 sheet 4366 ensures that any decisions that are The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN made by this joint committee—by the execu- (Senator Lightfoot)—We are dealing with tives of the two governments—about the two amendments moved by the Greens: implementation of the US-Australia free amendment (1) on sheet 4351 and amend- trade agreement become instruments that can ment (1) on sheet 4366 revised. be disallowed by either the Senate or the House of Representatives. This Greens’ Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) amendment brings the power back to the (12.32 p.m.)—During the debate last night Senate and the House of Representatives on these two amendments moved by the when decisions are made by the joint com- Greens, Senator Ridgeway informed the mittee as to how the US-Australia free trade committee that he had more questions to ask agreement is going to be implemented, rather on these amendments, so I will use this op- than handing it over to a committee on which portunity to ask some questions about the President Bush and Prime Minister Howard
CHAMBER 25972 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 appoint individuals. The reason we need to cally prudent. Clearly, by appointing trade do this should be patently obvious: decisions representatives to these committees and by about sovereignty and decisions about being setting a term of reference for them which is able to implement laws in a way in which about facilitating trade between parties, there they serve the public interest of this country cannot be an expectation that these trade rep- and the United States should be made in our resentatives or bodies set up to make deci- parliaments; they should not be made in a sions on trade will be making decisions on committee to which the two executives can the basis of our scientific laws and the stand- appoint individuals who then make decisions ing of our quarantine laws. No wonder the and rulings that need to be adhered to by our small farmers and orchardists who are grow- parliament or the parliament of the United ing apples and pears in the northern table- States. lands of New South Wales are concerned. I will move to one particular area which, We have scientifically proven quarantine as I mentioned last night, farmers, particu- laws that we are continually defending from larly orchardists, in parts of New South attacks from not just the United States but Wales that I have been visiting are concerned also the European Union, who claim that our about, and that is the way in which our quar- quarantine laws are a barrier to trade, that antine laws are weakened by the mechanisms our quarantine laws are not there for scien- of the US-Australia free trade agreement. tific reasons but for trading reasons. They Quarantine laws in Australia, I am sure all of have not won those disputes in the World us would stand up and agree, are there for a Trade Organisation. We have been able to scientific purpose. They are to protect our defend the scientific validity of our quaran- produce and its capacity to be disease and tine laws. Now the United States has another pest free. But the US-Australia free trade opportunity through a free trade agreement agreement sets up a range of different com- with Australia—let us remember that the US mittees which make determinations about is the largest economic superpower in the whether or not our quarantine laws are per- world—that sets up a committee with trade ceived as a barrier to trade. The SPS commit- representatives on it that will make determi- tee, which is one of two committees being nations as to whether our quarantine laws are set up, will comprise trade representatives as scientifically prudent. If that is not getting in well as scientists. Both of the committees through the back door, I do not know what that are being set up as a part of the quaran- is. The US have not been able to win their tine concessions that this government has cases in the World Trade Organisation so made to the United States are intended to now they have a trade agreement set up with ‘facilitate trade between the parties’. That is a country that has a far smaller economy a quote from the trade agreement’s article than they do, and out of that trade agreement 7.4, annex 7-A, section A1. they have got concessions from this govern- We have two committees on which trade ment for committees that make decisions on representatives as well as scientists are the basis of facilitating trade between coun- based, and these committees are given, by tries and that have trade representatives as the US-Australia free trade agreement, the well as scientists on them. That is not a pro- prerogative to make decisions that will facili- tection of our quarantine laws. tate trade between parties—trade representa- The question needs to be asked of the tives, not scientists, making decisions about minister: why has the government failed in whether our quarantine laws are scientifi- this regard? The Minister for Trade, Mr
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25973
Vaile, went into these negotiations saying Senator RIDGEWAY—I want to make a that he would be defending Australia’s quar- few comments on behalf of the Australian antine laws. Yet he has set up these commit- Democrats. tees with a clear framework for the basis on Senator HILL (South Australia— which they are to make decisions, and put Minister for Defence) (12.42 p.m.)—I won- trade representatives on them rather than der whether I could answer Senator Nettle’s keeping them as scientific forums which de- questions first, Senator Ridgeway. It might cide on our quarantine laws. This is why we make it easier, if that is okay. Senator Nettle need to ensure that decisions made by this raised two issues. The first concerned the joint committee appointed by the Howard Greens’ amendment on sheet 4366, which is government and the Bush administration to to require the joint committee that is set up to implement our free trade agreement are deci- supervise implementation of the agree- sions that we can debate here in the parlia- ment—a committee between governments— ment. They impact on the livelihoods of or- to assume a new role, and that is reporting to chardists—people growing citrus fruits, the Australian parliament and in effect being stone fruits, apples and pears—and produc- accountable to the parliament, even to the ers of pork, who rely on our quarantine laws extent that within the amendment she argues to protect their pork exports. We have seen for provisions that would enable any instru- comments from the United States saying ment that came out of that process to be dis- with respect to these exact industries, stone allowed by the Australian parliament. Con- fruits, citrus and pork, that Australia’s quar- sistent with what I said last night, this is a antine laws will be weakened as a result of failure to appreciate basically our system of the trade agreement. Wins will come for governance, which gives this responsibility American farmers in these three areas as a to the executive. It would be inappropriate result of what the Australian government has therefore for us to seek to interfere in the agreed to. There is no comfort there for Aus- conduct of the business of a committee that tralian farmers, and the government and the is reporting to both executives. If the Austra- opposition need to answer the question: why lian parliament is minded it has other ways are you doing this to our farmers and or- of pursuing the implementation of the free chardists? Why are you putting their liveli- trade agreement as the years go by. It could hoods and the quarantine laws that protect conduct inquiries; it could obviously ask their livelihoods in the hands of trade repre- questions in the parliament. There are a sentatives to make decisions—not our own range of different processes that can be util- existing scientifically based analysis that has ised. But to seek to corrupt the institutional- stood up in the World Trade Organisation? ised structure for administration by this Senator RIDGEWAY (New South Wales) means we would suggest is not only unwise (12.42 p.m.)—I seek some clarification. I but inappropriate. presume we are speaking to Greens’ amend- The second issue she raised concerned the ment on sheet 4351. quarantine provisions of the agreement. It The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN was not related to the implementation bill but (Senator Lightfoot)—We are talking about related to the agreement. As this chamber amendment (1) on sheet 4351 and amend- knows, the government has been at pains to ment (1) on sheet 4366 revised, taken to- stress that the free trade agreement will not gether by leave. compromise Australia’s quarantine regime. This was one of our no-go areas in these ne-
CHAMBER 25974 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 gotiations. We wanted an agreement that al- Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) lowed for an expansion of Australian trade (12.48 p.m.)—I would just like to point the but not at a cost to Australia’s quarantine minister to some other comments. It is inter- regime, which has been so important in pro- esting to hear the government’s view that this tecting this country from quarantine threats. will not impact on Australia’s quarantine Senator Nettle, on this occasion, confuses laws. That is not a view shared by the US the role of both the committee and the work- farmers that have lobbied so hard to ensure ing group that are set up under the free trade that these new committees are set up outside agreement to assist in the implementation of our scientific processes with the capacity to that agreement as in some way threatening have ‘facilitating trade’ as one of their terms that Australian quarantine structure. In doing of reference. The American Farm Bureau so, she is mistaken. If she refers to chapter 7 Federation in a document that they wrote, of the agreement she will see the role of the ‘The Implications of an Australian Free committee that is established to assist both Trade Agreement on US Agriculture’, said: governments in the implementation of the It is critical to note that this increase in exports— agreement is as is stated there: that is, an increase in the US agricultural The objectives of the Committee shall be to exports— enhance each Party’s implementation of the SPS depends as much or more on the progress in fol- Agreement, protect human, animal, or plant life low-up sanitary and phytosanitary talks on items or health, enhance consultation and cooperation such as Australia’s quarantine and food safety between the Parties on sanitary and phytosanitary regulations than on changes to Australia’s low or matters, and facilitate trade between the Parties. zero tariffs. There is nothing in that that is threatening to So we have got the US farmers saying here Australia’s quarantine regime. If she then that what happens in these follow-up talks moves to annex 7-A, which sets up the tech- that occur as result of the committees that the nical group, she will find that whilst that government is setting up is as important or group provides technical advice it can in no more important for them in getting their pro- way interfere with the scientific assessment duce into the Australian marketplace. which is the basis of a quarantine assess- Here is a comment from two Australian ment. academics, Professor Linda Weiss from the These issues were explored at consider- University of Sydney and Dr Elizabeth able depth by both the joint parliamentary Thurbon from the University of New South committee and the Senate committee and, Wales, in their responses to questions on no- whilst those committees made various sug- tice from the Senate select committee on the gestions, I do not think that either found that US-Australia free trade agreement. The sec- there was any real threat to Australia’s quar- tion that they write about these quarantine antine arrangements as a result of either the laws concludes with this statement: committee or the working group. I appreciate Agreeing to provide a political forum outside the the concern she is expressing, but it is the auspice of the World Trade Organisation in which confident view of the government that the to discuss Australia’s quarantine issues cannot be agreement as it has been negotiated will in justified on national interest grounds. no way threaten Australia’s quarantine ar- The Greens completely support and under- rangements and that her fears in this regard stand that statement. What is being set up are not well founded. here is a political forum in which people are
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25975 appointed by the executive of the Howard Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) government or the Bush administration to (12.52 p.m.)—Whilst we are dealing with the discuss quarantine issues and to facilitate first amendment on my sheet of amendments trade between the two countries. What com- and the first amendment on Senator Brown’s ments does the minister have in response to sheet of amendments, I ask the minister to those from the US farmers that the talks that respond to the concerns that have been put occur will be as important, if not more im- forward on the trade agreement’s capacity to portant, for US farmers in getting their pro- undermine our quarantine laws. There have duce into the Australian marketplace and been comments from two academics from impacting on our quarantine laws? Sydney University and the University of Senator RIDGEWAY (New South Wales) New South Wales that a political forum is (12.50 p.m.)—I just want to provide the De- being set up outside the auspices of the mocrats’ response to the Greens’ amend- WTO, with the capacity to discuss and make ments on sheets 4351 and 4366. Firstly, the decisions on quarantine issues. There have Greens’ amendments seem fine to be sup- also been comments from US farmers that ported. In fact, in a couple of areas they these discussions will be equally as impor- overlap our amendments exactly. I heard the tant as or more important than the decisions explanation provided by Senator Nettle in that are made about changes to Australia’s terms of an introduction of a definition of an tariffs quotas. Could the minister respond to agreement to be used throughout the legisla- these concerns. They are ones that I know tion. Whilst I think it probably needs more are shared by farmers in New South Wales explanation in terms of what its effect is go- whom I have spoken to, who can see that ing to be, I do not think there is any diffi- setting up a committee of trade representa- culty from an Australian Democrats’ per- tives rather than of scientists, with the capac- spective in being able to support that. As ity to facilitate trade, heads us in a direction well, I understand that amendment (2) on of decisions being made about our quaran- sheet 4351 removes a section requiring US tine laws that are not purely scientific deci- Customs officers to accompany verification sions. officers. I want it on record that we have a These decisions will be influenced by the similar amendment that removes this entire terms of reference which the minister read schedule and all others, so we will support out. The final term of reference for this that amendment. On amendment (3), remov- committee that he read out was about the two ing schedule 5, again because we have an committees facilitating trade. These are not amendment that removes all of those sched- the scientific committees that exist in the ules we would support that Australian WTO; they are political forums to which our Greens’ proposal. government and the US government appoint The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN individuals. They make decisions and then, (Senator Lightfoot)—Senator Ridgeway, it even if the decision they make is not some- is not entirely improper to flag what you are thing that, for example, the United States is doing but we are not dealing with those happy with, they can take that decision to the clauses or amendments. We are dealing only disputes mechanism within this agreement, with amendment (1) on sheet 4351 and which allows another panel comprising three amendment (1) on sheet 4366. trade lawyers to make a decision about whether or not our quarantine laws create a barrier to trade. This is the issue that the min-
CHAMBER 25976 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 ister acknowledged last night. Decisions The farmers may well think they could about the implementation of this agreement have access through these bodies to discuss can be made in a trade forum of three trade these issues with Australia—and sometimes lawyers—not in the Australian parliament, as discussion is a useful thing—but that in itself proposed in this amendment that the Greens does not provide any threat to Australia’s are putting forward. Decisions about the im- quarantine regime. They cannot determine an plementation of the trade agreement can be outcome relating to Australia’s quarantine made by a panel of three trade lawyers. regime. The Australian government, hope- There is no comfort for Australian farmers. fully with the support of the Australian par- Firstly, we have got this committee of trade liament, will be the body that makes those representatives deciding on quarantine laws. decisions. Whilst this government is in of- If the US government is not happy with fice, its decisions will always be to protect those decisions, the matter can then go to the Australia from quarantine risk. As I said, that disputes mechanism within this agreement— was simply a no-go zone in relation to this a disputes mechanism whereby three trade negotiation. The protection of that quarantine lawyers are making a decision. How does environment is so important to us that we that provide any comfort to Australian farm- would not hesitate to sacrifice economic ad- ers concerned about the quarantine laws that vantage in an effort to ensure protection of protect their livelihoods? our natural assets for the benefit of future Senator HILL (South Australia— generations. Minister for Defence) (12.55 p.m.)—What is Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) the relevance of trade officials? The answer (12.58 p.m.)—Let us talk about the disputes of course is that we are looking at the con- mechanism making a decision that one of nection between quarantine protection and Australia’s quarantine laws is found to be a trade issues. What we are talking about is barrier to trade. That is what the disputes where trade in a particular product might be mechanism is deciding: whether any existing threatened from a quarantine perspective; laws in our country are barriers to trade. So that is the relevance. The WTO obligation is the disputes mechanism, involving three that the restrictive measure should be the trade lawyers, decides that one part of our option that is least trade restrictive. But that quarantine laws is a barrier to trade. My un- does not alter the fact that Australia has a derstanding of what the disputes mechanism right to protect itself from quarantine threat, can then do is this: through the trade agree- and that right is not detrimentally affected by ment it can ensure that that law is changed so this agreement. The fact that experts from that it is not a barrier to trade. It can impose both sides will discuss these issues might be trade sanctions equivalent to the amount of useful but those experts cannot require any money it believes has been lost via the Aus- particular quarantine outcome from Austra- tralian quarantine law that is a barrier to lia. Australia decides that for itself. Contrary trade. So it can require compensation to be to what Senator Nettle said, I am advised that paid. the dispute settlement mechanism under the We have got a group of three trade law- free trade agreement does not include dis- yers making a decision about whether or not putes in relation to quarantine. So in this ne- our laws are barriers to trade. Once they have gotiation the negotiators have not departed decided something is a barrier to trade, what from the existing WTO processes. powers do they have? My understanding is that they can impose trade sanctions, as we
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25977 saw when the New Zealand government de- Senator HILL (South Australia— cided to put their audiovisual sector onto the Minister for Defence) (1.02 p.m.)—I will bargaining table for the General Agreement never satisfy Senator Nettle, but I guess it on Trade in Services. A subsequent govern- helps to fill in the day. I draw Senator Net- ment—in that case, a Labour government— tle’s attention to article 7.2.2, which is under came in in New Zealand and tried to increase the quarantine part of the act. It explicitly the local content of audiovisual services. The says: United States, through the same trade dis- Neither Party may have recourse to dispute putes mechanism, threatened to impose sanc- settlement under this Agreement for any matter tions on New Zealand equivalent to the arising under this Chapter. amount of money the United States enter- That is the answer to her concern in relation tainment industry believed it had lost as a to quarantine matters. She then seemed to result of the changes to New Zealand law move into the area of audiovisual protection. that had come about by them putting their As she knows, Australia were able to suc- audiovisual sector on the trade table. They cessfully negotiate the level of protection had made those changes, and a Labour gov- that we required under that part. That was ernment got in and tried to increase the New very important to us because our cultural Zealand content. identity was something that we were also not At the World Trade Organisation the prepared to sacrifice for purely economic United States were able to argue and win gain. We were pleased with the outcome that their case. They threatened to impose sanc- we were able to negotiate, the level of pro- tions on the New Zealand government if they tection we were able to negotiate and the tried to increase their local content. So the further flexibility that was provided to us in New Zealand government did not. They were that part. I cannot see any concern in relation so threatened by the trade sanctions, the eco- to a disputes settlement mechanism, because nomic sanctions being proposed by the an outcome of any dispute cannot be to re- United States, that there was no increase in duce the level of protection that the United local content provisions by the New Zealand States has already agreed to. government. That is how powerful the trade Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.03 dispute mechanism that is in this US- p.m.)—Quarantine is not just a matter of the Australia free trade agreement is. A new dispute mechanism, as dismissed by the min- government in New Zealand, a Labour gov- ister, but a matter of what changes have been ernment, got in and wanted to increase the made to the overview of quarantine ar- local content levels. By winning through that rangements. Could the minister please ex- dispute mechanism, the economic threat im- plain to the committee what appointments posed by the United States, the great eco- will be made under the free trade agreement nomic power that it is, was so great that the relating to quarantine, what those appoint- New Zealand government did not increase ments are to and who will make them. We their content. That is the power of these trade hear the blandishments about quarantine be- agreements. Can the minister explain this for ing safe and unchanged, but I hear the con- us: what power does the dispute mechanism cern of people in the rural communities that have when it makes a decision that a quaran- it is not quite as easy as that. For example, if tine law, a local content law or whatever it you do have people involved in trade— may be is a barrier to trade? What power perhaps their barley wheat is being traded— does it have to change that situation? being involved in the quarantine overview or
CHAMBER 25978 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 decision-making process, that is a very im- are groups set up to facilitate the administra- portant change, and the committee needs to tion of the agreement—a broader policy type know about it. committee and a technical specialist group to Senator HILL (South Australia— support that committee. As I said in answer Minister for Defence) (1.05 p.m.)—In chap- to a question from Senator Nettle, we are not ter 7, article 7.4 establishes the committee to looking at the quarantine issues in a vacuum; which we have been referring. It says it will we are looking at the background of trade. comprise: The objective, obviously, is to ensure that protective measures are the least trade re- … representatives of each Party who have responsibility for sanitary and phytosanitary strictive options. That is understandable be- matters. cause one of our objectives is to expand trade. But our overriding objective is not to It is reasonable to assume that they would be expand trade at the risk of reducing our principally government officials. In relation quarantine protection regime. That is why to what is referred to in annex 7-A as the these committees have no capacity to change Standing Technical Working Group on Australia’s quarantine laws and furthermore, Animal and Plant Health Measures, again that chapter gives us guidance. It says: as I also said in answer to Senator Nettle, there is not even a dispute settlement mecha- The Working Group shall be co-chaired by the nism on quarantine provided for within the chief administrators of the Australian Govern- agreement. ment Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry’s Biosecurity Australia and the United Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.09 States Department of Agriculture’s Animal and p.m.)—Senator Hill has spent an hour trying Plant Health Inspection Service … to get around the truth that is at the kernel of We are looking principally at a technical this matter; that is, US authorities will be group of specialists. appointed to the technical advisory groups— Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.06 the Australian-US committee on sanitary and p.m.)—Does that include US technical ex- phytosanitary matters as well as the Austra- perts being involved in decisions on Austra- lian-US technical working group on animal lian quarantine matters? and plant health measures. These will com- prise not only scientists but trade representa- Senator HILL (South Australia— tives—that is, representatives of US multina- Minister for Defence) (1.07 p.m.)—I have tional corporations. That cuts straight to the been answering this particular question now matter. These will be looking, and I quote for some time—about an hour, basically. Senator Hill, ‘to ensure the technical meas- Australian quarantine laws are determined by ures are the least trade restrictive options’. Australia and neither the technical group nor the committee can change Australia’s quar- When you are looking at quarantine there antine laws; that is a fundamental safeguard. is no least or more about it. Either you are protecting the country from the potential of Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.07 invasive species and organisms or you are p.m.)—Will American experts be brought not. The minister says, ‘We’re going to look into the technical group or the other group at the ones that are best for trade.’ They are that is looking at Australian quarantine laws not the ones that are the best for quarantine. and decisions made there? What right do trade representatives have to Senator HILL (South Australia— invade the right of scientists with quarantine Minister for Defence) (1.07 p.m.)—These expertise and people with technical know-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25979 how and experience in this field and to know advisory panels, for goodness sake? Whom what is best for Australia? The trade repre- does the minister think he is fooling here? sentatives from the United States are looking This is a trade agreement which has been at the trade advantage that they can get by written under pressure from the US corporate knocking off quarantine measures here. The sector against the interests of Australia’s 100 minister tries to fool us into believing that per cent ability to determine for itself its this simply means there is going to be a little quarantine protection. It is a Trojan Horse. bit of talk in a backroom. No, there is enor- The minister knows that; the government mous political leverage here. That is why the knows that. Labor knows that but it accepts measures are there. You do not get people this; Labor thinks that this is fine too. Has being appointed to committees like this Senator Conroy got something to say about unless there is an advantage for the new this? How does Labor justify these trade rep- party, the new kid on the block—in this case resentatives coming into these important US trade interests. The measures are put groups looking at quarantine? It is obvious there to prevent Australia from having the what is going on here. It cannot be accepted. rigour in defending itself from invasive spe- It is not accepted by the Greens. We are go- cies that it has had in the past. ing to have to live with this for decades to The example with NAFTA of the repeated come. Prime Minister Howard will have pressure on measures just like this to break moved on, but this Trojan Horse will remain, down quarantine laws and protective laws is against the interests of this country. writ large. How is a future Australian gov- Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) ernment going to be able to withstand the (1.14 p.m.)—I want to read out to the minis- pressure of trade representatives, who know ter and the committee some concerns that the ins and outs of the quarantine decision- have been expressed by the two academics making process of our sovereign nation? from Sydney University and the University They will be up against farmers, who are not of New South Wales, whom I mentioned a party to what is going on, and who are try- before, about the way in which quarantine ing to protect their crops, their orchards and decisions in Australia are already being in- their stock. The competing entity, the United fluenced—and this is before we get any States, which is keeping the barriers up on committees with trade representatives sitting sugar and for a long time to come—forever, on them making decisions. In doing this I if it wants to manipulate the wording of this will deal with the issue of pork. It is worth agreement—on beef and other prime exports noting that the US Trade Representative said that should have free entry to the United in a press release: States under a free trade agreement, will Food inspection procedures that have posed barri- break it down because the entity that wants ers in the past will be addressed, benefitting sec- to compete with the Australian agricultural tors such as pork, citrus, apples and stone fruit. industries is now in the house. It is at the I now read from the submission of the aca- coalface of the decision-making component demics to the Senate select committee: of quarantine laws in this country. That is The inclusion of pork in this statement is par- what is wrong with this agreement. ticularly concerning in light of Biosecurity Aus- ‘Don’t worry about it,’ says the minister tralia’s recent decision to allow pork imports and Prime Minister Howard. If we are not from— going to worry about it, what are these trade the United States— representatives doing on these quarantine
CHAMBER 25980 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 even though the CSIRO recommended otherwise. tive criteria.’ Pork is one such example, and I The CSIRO ... concluded that changes to quar- have many others here as well. antine protocols proposed by Biosecurity Austra- These are quarantine decisions that have lia would see a 94 to 99 per cent likelihood of an already been made and they have been influ- outbreak of the deadly post-weaning multi- enced by trade criteria which the CSIRO has systemic wasting syndrome in the next 10 years. Since its appearance in Europe only a few years warned us against. This is before we have ago, this disease has killed eight million pigs, at a got a trade agreement in place. This is before cost of $1.5 billion. It has no vaccination or cure; we have another committee with trade repre- only Australia, Finland and Belgium are free from sentatives on it and a mandate of making it. decisions on a trade basis. It is understand- ... on May 13, 2004, a Senate Committee recom- able that farmers, who are already seeing mended that Biosecurity Australia’s decision to decisions being influenced by trade criteria, allow importation of pork products be overturned, are even more concerned about what the and that quarantine restrictions remain in place ... government has agreed to in this trade the Senate Committee also criticised Biosecurity agreement: more committees, more trade Australia for prioritising ‘least trade restrictive’ representation and more decisions based on criteria in its Import Risk Analyses, even though least trade restrictive criteria rather than on Australia is not required to do so under its WTO obligations ... this is illustrative of the extent to science. It is understandable that people are which trade considerations are already influenc- concerned. The Greens say that it is not good ing what should be predominately science-based enough. We will continue to stick with the decisions. recommendation of the first Senate commit- So here we have statements about decisions tee that looked at the US-Australia free trade that are already being made in Australia by agreement which was to exempt our quaran- Biosecurity Australia which are against the tine decisions from the impact of the US- recommendations of the CSIRO and on Australia free trade agreement. which a Senate committee, with the support I turn now to some other comments that of the Australian Labor Party, has come out the minister made when we were going a bit and said we should not be making decisions further into this as to a decision that may be on the basis of least trade restrictive criteria. made by the disputes mechanism of the US- The first Senate committee that looked into Australia free trade agreement that one of the US-Australia free trade agreement, which our laws is perceived to be a barrier to trade. I was a member of, made a recommenda- I was asking the minister about what power tion—a recommendation supported by the that body has. I have had a look at chapter 21 opposition, the Greens and the Democrats— and at annex 21-A on the formula for mone- which said that the government should ex- tary assessments. I am wondering if the min- empt Australia’s quarantine laws from nego- ister can explain what those monetary as- tiations on the proposed US-Australia free sessments are and whether they relate to de- trade agreement. At first we had the Labor cisions that the trade panel makes for any Party, the Greens and the Democrats saying, compensation that needs to be paid or to any ‘Don’t let our quarantine laws be a part of trade sanctions that may be imposed by that this trade agreement.’ After that the Labor committee. Party came out and said, ‘We on this Senate Senator HILL (South Australia— committee believe we shouldn’t be making Minister for Defence) (1.20 p.m.)—I will decisions that are based on least trade restric- attempt to conclude the discussion on quar-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25981 antine. It was interesting to hear Senator minister said that they did not have the Brown. He seemed to be arguing for an iso- power to impose financial penalties and now, lated Australia as the only way to protect it looking through the trade agreement, it is from invasive species and at the same time quite clear, and I thank the minister for— he seemed to be arguing for expanded trade Senator Hill—Under quarantine. in sugar. Senator Nettle said the farmers Senator NETTLE—The questions I have want a strong quarantine regime—and that is been asking were more general. Whilst you true and that is reasonable—but she also were talking to your advisers I was talking could have said that they want the opportu- about audiovisual content, and the example I nity to trade. Obviously trade is the back- was giving was in relation to New Zealand. ground against which we are discussing The financial penalties that were to be im- quarantine issues, but we on this side of the posed on the New Zealand government as it chamber believe it is possible to get win-win tried to increase its local content levels were outcomes and it is possible to provide ex- so great that the New Zealand government panded trade opportunities whilst at the same decided not to do it. Here we have, in annex time protecting our natural assets from quar- 21-A of the agreement, a formula by which antine threats. Senator Brown was obviously decisions for financial penalties can be made. wrong when he said that there is always only So in relation to local content the situation is one way to protect from quarantine threats. as the minister explained. He said that there There might be a range of different ways. is no capacity to increase local content levels Taking a hypothetical example, if the scien- in Australia and we now see that there are tists argue that there are two ways with equal monetary penalties. effectiveness and if one is less threatening to trade, then that is obviously the one that this If we had an Australian government that side of the chamber would prefer. It gives us wanted to increase the local content on tele- the chance to build wealth, create jobs and vision, radio, pay TV or some other form of provide for the community a whole range of new media in order to support the film or different benefits whilst at the same time television industry in Australia—and that protecting our natural asset base. was found to be a barrier to trade, because it is quite clearly stipulated in the free trade I need to take some advice in relation to agreement that you cannot increase local the monetary penalties. As Senator Nettle content levels—the minister has now pointed was saying, article 21.12, in this instance, out the process by which financial penalties provides—I repeat, in relation to a dispute could be imposed. I thank the minister for mechanism not applying to quarantine but to pointing out the financial penalties—at an- other issues—that if a party has not con- nex 21-A of the agreement—that can be im- formed to its obligations and the parties are posed upon Australia if a dispute cannot be unable to reach agreement et cetera it is pos- resolved by the three trade lawyers on the sible that a financial penalty can be provided, disputes panel. the formula for which is provided in annex 21-A. I am not sure where Senator Nettle Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.26 wishes to take that issue but no doubt she p.m.)—Another way of putting the question will now explain. is: could the minister take the committee through what happens if this parliament, a Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) year from now, decides that it wants to in- (1.24 p.m.)—I am glad that we are here to crease the local content rule so that Austra- continue asking questions because earlier the
CHAMBER 25982 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 lian content has to go up by five per cent? If good outcome for Australia and that it pro- a bill that is obviously in breach of the free tects our cultural environment to the extent trade agreement goes through this parlia- that we believe is reasonable. As I said, that ment, what happens? Does nothing happen was something that was very important to us or is Senator Nettle right, which appears in this negotiation and we are pleased with logical, that financial— what we were able to achieve. Senator Conroy interjecting— Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) Senator BROWN—I will come to it in a (1.29 p.m.)—I thank the minister for making little while. The question is: can the minister it very clear that the government is satisfied walk the committee through what happens with the level of local content that exists on under those circumstances and how the US Australian television and radio. He read out ensures that Australia does not get to in- some other areas such as multichannelling crease its local content? and pay TV in which, if the United States agrees, there is a capacity for Australia to Senator HILL (South Australia— increase local content levels. But in televi- Minister for Defence) (1.27 p.m.)—I sup- sion and in radio, our two main areas of me- pose the short answer, I am advised, is that dia at the moment, there is not a requirement. that particular part does not refer to disputes This government may be satisfied with the about audiovisual media. Putting that aside level of local content that exists on television for the moment, the issue is that, if Australia and radio at the moment. What if a future were in breach, it might be possible to ex- government wanted to increase local content tract a penalty. But the government’s argu- on television or radio? The question Senator ment is that we are satisfied with the audio- Brown asked is: what process exists under visual arrangement that has been reached and this trade agreement for a future government the protection and flexibility that we have to increase local content on television or ra- been able to negotiate. I draw Senator Net- dio? tle’s attention to this—Senator Brown is leaving and can probably have the luxury of Senator HILL (South Australia— a lunch— Minister for Defence) (1.30 p.m.)—This agreement is not designed to last only the Senator Brown—No, I will be back very length of a specific government. As is the shortly. norm, the agreement will also bind future Senator HILL—It will be good to have governments. Government makes decisions you back, Senator. I draw Senator Nettle’s every day that have an effect upon a future attention to the parts of the agreement that government. There is nothing different in set out, under the heading ‘Cross-border that regard in this agreement. trade in services and investment’, what Aus- Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) tralia reserves the right to apply and maintain (1.31 p.m.)—So every future government in relation to multichannelled free-to-air also has to be satisfied with the level of Aus- commercial television broadcasting services, tralian content that exists on television and free-to-air commercial television broadcast- radio. I talked about the financial penalties ing services, subscription television broad- outlined in annex 21-A. Can the minister casting services, free-to-air radio broadcast- explain to this chamber to what industries ing services, interactive audio and/or video these financial penalties apply? So far the services, spectrum and licensing, and subsi- minister has said he does not believe that dies or grants. We think that that was a very
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25983 they apply to quarantine. Can the minister (2) Page 4 (after line 11), after clause 3, insert: explain to which industries these financial 6 Free trade agreement subordinate to penalties apply? If a dispute about whether public welfare objectives or not Australian laws provide a barrier to For the purposes of the agreement: trade cannot be resolved by the panel and (a) regulatory actions which are de- financial penalties are applied, to which in- signed for the purpose of, and ap- dustries do these financial penalties apply? plied to achieve, legitimate public Senator HILL (South Australia— welfare objectives, including the Minister for Defence) (1.32 p.m.)—The protection of: agreement provides for that in circumstances (i) public health; where a party has not conformed with its (ii) public safety; obligations under article 18.2.1(a) or article (iii) the environment; 19.2.1(a). do not constitute indirect expropria- Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) tions for the purposes of the agree- (1.32 p.m.)—That does not answer the ques- ment; and tion of what industries it applies to. What the (b) no compensation is payable as a minister is saying is: ‘We’ve set a trade consequence of any expropriation or agreement. It’s set in stone. If anyone tries to nationalisation arising under Article do anything outside it, financial penalties are 11.7(1) of the agreement unless imposed.’ That is what I take from the minis- compensation would be payable un- der an Australian law other than this ter’s answer. If he wants to qualify his an- Act to an Australian person or com- swer and say, ‘It doesn’t apply to this indus- pany. try or that industry,’ I am giving him the op- This amendment is about protection of pub- portunity to do so. But so far the minister’s lic health, public safety and the environment. answer has been: ‘There’s an agreement. It’s It ensures that the Australian government set in stone. It’s got levels for content and it’s now and Australian governments in the fu- got other components. If we want to make ture can make decisions to protect Australia’s any changes to that, there are financial penal- public welfare, public health, public safety or ties.’ Now is the opportunity for the minister, environment and cannot be threatened with if this does not apply to some sectors, to paying compensation as a result of this trade point them out. Otherwise, all we can take agreement. If an existing Australian law en- from the minister’s answer is that in any area sures that compensation needs to be paid, of the agreement where there is dispute or that is fine because it is an Australian law. where one party wants to make a change, financial penalties apply. But this amendment says that governments making decisions for public health, public The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN welfare, public safety or our environment (Senator McLucas)—The question is that cannot be fined as a result of this trade Greens’ amendment (1) on sheet 4351 and agreement. These are the sorts of objectives Greens’ amendment (1) on sheet 4366 re- that need to be put into trade agreements to vised be agreed to. ensure that governments—not just here in Question negatived. Australia and in the United States—can Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) make decisions on the basis of public health, (1.34 p.m.)—I move Australian Greens’ public welfare, the environment and public amendment (2) on sheet 4366 revised: safety. The Australian Greens support trade
CHAMBER 25984 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 agreements whereby sovereign governments interested in negotiating an agreement that have the capacity to make decisions on the improved access to the US market, but it was basis of public health, public welfare and not prepared to do so at a cost to the envi- environmental standards. ronment, public health or public safety. Indeed, on an international level, the Therefore, an amendment that simply repeats Greens here and Greens parties in over 80 that situation is unnecessary. I will leave it at different countries are arguing, working and that for the moment. campaigning to ensure that trade agreements Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.39 involving all countries occur—not bilateral p.m.)—Six major US environmental sorts of trade agreements like this one be- groups—the Center for International Envi- tween Australia and the United States but ronment Law, the Defenders of Wildlife, agreements that involve all countries and that Earthjustice, Friends of the Earth, Sierra have environmental, human health, labour Club and Pacific Environment—have ex- and human rights standards enshrined across pressed opposition to the US-Australia free the board which respect international stan- trade agreement. They have pointed out that dards. These are the sorts of trade agree- the environment is indeed at risk. What is ments we should be ensuring occur. Other- more, they do so from a position of experi- wise, we will end up with trade agree- ence. They point out that, for example, the ments—like the one we are debating right investor rights provisions in the agreement now between Australia and the United before us are very similar to those that oper- States—which do not have those public ate under the North American Free Trade health, environmental, labour or human Agreement, NAFTA. As I pointed out last rights standards central to them. Any of those night, their letter expressing opposition to fundamental standards can be overridden by this agreement says: the interests of the trade agreement. For ex- Under NAFTA, both Mexico and Canada have ample, if the Australian government wanted already lost cases involving environmental pro- to bring in a carbon tax—an example which tections, and the United States faces challenges to Senator Brown gave last night—and to use public health and environmental standards. These the funds from a carbon tax to protect our cases have included challenges to policies con- natural environment, that could go to the cerning toxic gasoline additives, hazardous waste disputes mechanism and we could have to treatment, transboundary transport of hazardous waste, open-pit mining mitigation measures, and pay compensation for bringing in a carbon others. tax. This amendment ensures that, when we are making decisions for these public interest Let us take the first one of those as an exam- initiatives, we do not face the prospect of ple. This was a challenge to Canada, which paying compensation as a result of the dis- had a law preventing toxic gasoline additives putes tribunal set up in this agreement. that was disputed under the disputes mecha- nism of NAFTA by a multinational petro- Senator HILL (South Australia— leum corporation—and they won. Can the Minister for Defence) (1.38 p.m.)—The gov- minister tell us that that cannot happen under ernment’s argument, of course, is that envi- this agreement? ronmental and public welfare objectives are secured by the existing agreement and that Senator HILL (South Australia— there is nothing in the enabling legislation Minister for Defence) (1.42 p.m.)—Unlike that puts them at risk. As I said last night and NAFTA, this agreement does not include an I have said again today, the government was investor-state dispute settlement mechanism.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25985
Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.42 mechanisms by which governments under p.m.)—That sort of glib response is not go- pressure from the corporate sector can estab- ing to help us. Let me give the full quote so lish ad hoc investor suit processes in particu- that the minister can consider it and come lar cases without any approval or oversight back with a more informative and appropri- by this parliament. Is that wrong? If so, let us ate response. This quote comes from the have the minister show us where it is wrong. statement issued by the six US environ- When these ad hoc decision-making proc- mental organisations. They say that the Aus- esses are set up, decisions can bypass domes- tralia-US free trade agreement: tic legal processes. As the environment ... does not include an ‘investor suit’ mechanism groups say, ‘investment suits permitted under that permits foreign investors to directly chal- this procedure would undermine democratic lenge environmental laws and regulations before governance concerning public interest’. Is international tribunals. We welcome the exclusion that wrong? If it is, let us have the minister of such a mechanism. explain how. Senator Hill knows that, I know that and eve- Senator HILL (South Australia— rybody who was here last night knows that. Minister for Defence) (1.45 p.m.)—This sub- That deals with the glib response that he just ject is covered by a further amendment of the gave. The groups go on to say: Greens that has not yet been moved. One However, the AUSFTA still explicitly leaves the might hope that this would reduce the time door open to direct suits by multinational inves- needed for debate for that amendment when tors before ad-hoc international tribunals. Article it is subsequently moved but, as it took 3½ 11.16.1 of the agreement permits the executives hours to vote on the first amendment, that is of the two governments to establish an ad-hoc probably wishful thinking. As I said, there is investor suit process in particular cases, without any approval or oversight by either the U.S. Con- no investor-state dispute settlement mecha- gress or the Australian parliament ... nism in this agreement, and the mechanism to which Senator Brown refers would require So we get no say in it. The statement contin- implementation with the agreement of both ues: states. That is the protection that has, from By allowing foreign investors to bypass domestic the Australian perspective, been in-built— legal processes, investment suits permitted under that an action could not be brought by an this procedure would undermine democratic gov- ernance concerning public interest policies. investor unless the Australian government Moreover, we— was prepared to agree to that action. It is dif- ficult to imagine a circumstance in which that is, the environment groups, and it is their that would occur. lawyers who are speaking to us through this letter— Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.46 p.m.)—What an appalling reply that was! To continue to have significant concerns about the substantive rights provided to foreign investors in go to the last glib response of ‘difficult to the AUSFTA. The agreement provides multina- imagine’, the Canadians never imagined that tional businesses rights that are similar to those in their law preventing toxic additives going NAFTA and other agreements. Under NAFTA, into their petrol would be challenged, but it both Mexico and Canada have already lost cases was challenged and the corporation involved ... won under the dispute mechanism. They We then get to the quote I made earlier. So I have toxic additives previously banned under say to the minister: yes, there is not an inves- Canadian law now going into their petrol. tor suit mechanism here, but there are other They did not imagine that, but the reality is
CHAMBER 25986 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 that they got it. The environment groups say this parliament out to pasture—it makes it that such challenges have been followed by irrelevant. That is what we are debating here more on hazardous waste treatment, trans- today: keeping this parliament empowered. boundary transport of hazardous wastes, The parliament on Capital Hill comprises the open-pit mining mitigation measures and elected representatives of the people. We more. Greens object to an executive process—we Let us do away with this appalling, irre- do not have the free trade agreement before sponsible approach, which says: ‘We don’t us today; we have some enabling legislation, know what is going to happen in the future, but the free trade agreement is not before this so it won’t happen.’ We are in this parliament chamber—signing away the powers of this to make sure that this nation’s interests are parliament and the rights of the Australian best served and that we do not have transna- people in an extraparliamentary deal because tional corporations with the power to lobby it suits Prime Minister Howard and big sec- governments of the day getting up a dispute tions of big business, of course, in the run to mechanism which undermines and overrides this election. Labor has fallen into line. We the laws of this country with no comeback will not; we have no intention of doing that. by this parliament. We are not involved. We What I have pointed out here is that when are not even told about it. We get no report. it comes to this nation’s environment the There is no transparency. There is no report experience in North America is that the laws back and this parliament has no ability to of Canada, Mexico and indeed the United vote on it. States can be undermined by multinationals The minister is quite correct: if the Labor going to whichever government they need to Party had the gumption to stand up for this attack the other governments’ laws, getting country and support Green amendments up a dispute mechanism and having those meaning that this parliament would arbitrate laws ruled invalid. That is the reality and that on the secret dispute mechanisms that the is the experience of NAFTA. Here we have government is setting up with the US gov- the legal advice to responsible US groups ernment for the benefit of multinational cor- saying to us in Australia, ‘Don’t sign this porations, we would be getting somewhere. agreement.’ It is touted as being good for the But do you know what is going to happen? United States. These are United States Labor is going to go over there and vote with groups with enormous experience in what a the Howard government against the Green free trade agreement like this can do to sub- mechanism which would bring this parlia- vert and undermine a country’s laws and its ment into play against these secret bodies set sovereignty, and the minister has no answer up to arbitrate what will or will not be in the to it except to say, ‘I can’t imagine a situa- national interest under this agreement. We tion in which that could occur for us.’ That is have not got an opposition here; we have a irresponsible. These are real cases. They are rubber-stamp of the Howard government! well known in bilateral free trade agreement Labor has brought in some amendments law and, indeed, in general free trade agree- which fix up a couple of important glitches, ment law. The minister must be on top of it. but there are 100 more that it is totally happy He must have been advised about it. I ask to go along with. We have a couple of wins again: can the minister give a categorical for the Labor Party but a lay-down misere assurance to this committee that there will for the Howard government, and the country not and cannot be a situation like that in is left with a free trade agreement which puts Canada, where national law can be overrid-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25987 den by a dispute mechanism outside the phical objection to freer trade. That is simply reach of this parliament? I do not think we not the position of the Australian govern- are going to get a ‘yes’ to that. ment. The Australian government’s position Senator HILL (South Australia— is that freer trade brings economic benefits Minister for Defence) (1.52 p.m.)—I regret from which all Australians can gain. But we that Senator Brown did not listen to the pre- have to ensure that freer trade does not come vious answer that I gave, which was that in- at the price of sacrificing other important vestor action could only be brought with the values. We have set out those values. Our agreement of the state. Therein lies a very assessment has been the subject of exhaus- significant distinction from NAFTA. It is a tive parliamentary scrutiny. We are satisfied distinction that I would have thought Senator that the key areas that Senator Brown is re- Brown would support. In relation to the dis- ferring to—public health, public safety and pute settlement resolution, yes, it does allow the environment—are more than adequately for the settlement of disputes under the protected under the terms of this agreement. agreement. That is what it is all about. There- Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (1.56 fore, it is the mechanism that is implemented p.m.)—Last night Senator Hill told this pursuant to the terms of an agreement be- committee that an example of a matter that tween the governments of the two states. we might want to see resolved is if a US en- There is nothing extraordinary in that. tity thought that an environmental law Aus- I assured this chamber last night and as- tralia was bringing in was not really aimed at sured this chamber again today that the dis- protecting the environment. He gave the putes mechanism is not going to change Aus- game away then and there. Any environ- tralia’s public health protection, environ- mental law that this parliament chooses to mental protection or quarantine protection, enact in the future could be challenged on which we believe are critically important. It the basis that it is not fair dinkum. If you has not been established as some sort of bring in a carbon tax, for example, the shadow trade restriction. It has been set up American corporations who do not want to for bona fide reasons to protect Australian see that—for example, the big petroleum national interests. That was never going to be corporations—could immediately challenge compromised in a negotiation to which the that on the basis that it was a tax-raising mat- government were a party. We were pleased ter, that that was its primary aim—something with the outcome of the negotiation in that the minister said had indicated that—and that we have been able to get expanded access. It it was not about the environment at all. is not everything we wanted in terms of ac- You can see a whole range of such laws. cess but we have been able to get signifi- Cultural integrity is another one. They could cantly expanded access into the United States say that the reason for bringing in an in- market across a whole range of sectors, crease of protection for cultural rights in which could significantly contribute towards Australia or an increase for home-made en- economic growth, the creation of wealth and tertainment or other content on broadcasting the creation of jobs in this country—all bene- was not really to protect Australian culture fits that most Australians wish to see. but was to beat competition in the United I understand that there are some interest States. That goes to a dispute mechanism, groups—Senator Brown, I think, falls within under the minister’s own reasoning. This is this category as well—that have a philoso- the government telling us that their under- standing is that US corporations will be able
CHAMBER 25988 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 to challenge the free trade agreement when munications ended. When did the govern- this parliament moves on laws if the US cor- ment first become aware of Mr Alston’s em- porations suspect that it is not just for the ployment by Austereo? What, if anything, purpose that is intended in the name of the was done to ensure the former minister did bill and that there can be some advantage for not use or access any confidential or sensi- Australia over US interests involved in such tive government information? In the light of a law. The government knows this. This is the actions of former Howard government simply opening up the way for US corpora- ministers Reith, Wooldridge, Fahey and now tions, through the US government with the Alston, what assurances can the minister assent of the government of the day, to go to give any business dealing with the Howard a dispute mechanism. government that the minister they are dealing What are the Australian government going with will not be working as a lobbyist for a to say? Will they say, ‘We won’t allow that business competitor soon after their leaving to be disputed’? The US government will ministerial office? immediately retaliate by saying, ‘We won’t Senator HILL—One of my colleagues, hear your disputes.’ Of course the disputes through interjection, was reminding the will be heard and of course the secret, face- Leader of the Opposition of former Senator less arbitration body outside the reach of this Graham Richardson and his employment parliament—the undemocratic body not subsequent to parliamentary service. The elected by parliament, not vetted by parlia- Labor Party tends to distinguish between the ment, with no response or responsibility to employment of former members from its the parliament and with the parliament un- own side and former members on the gov- able to do anything about it—is going to ar- ernment side who might seek employment. bitrate on matters of importance and critical Neither the parliament nor successive gov- interest to this country, because the govern- ernments have imposed constraints on for- ment said so and because the Labor Party mer ministers as to what employment they agreed to it. We will resume this debate later may take up after leaving office. I have no in the afternoon, but the minister is going to reason to think that former ministers from have to do better than that. I will be asking either side of politics have abused the public him to give examples of the safeguards trust by taking unfair advantage of their past which he says exist in this legislation but positions, nor do I have any reason to doubt which in effect are not there at all. that Mr Alston has acted, and will act, with Progress reported. the utmost propriety. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Senator FAULKNER—Mr President, I note that no attempt was made to answer the Former Parliamentarians: Business question I asked. I ask a supplementary ques- Appointments tion. Given that Mr Alston resigned as a Senator FAULKNER (2.00 p.m.)—My senator on 10 February 2004, can the minis- question is directed to Senator Hill, the Min- ter assure the Senate that Mr Alston was not ister representing the Prime Minister. I refer working as a paid or unpaid lobbyist for Aus- the minister to former Minister for Commu- tereo before that date? Can the minister as- nications, Information Technology and the sure the Senate that Mr Alston had not Arts Richard Alston’s employment by the reached an understanding with Austereo be- large radio company Austereo only months fore leaving the Senate or, in fact, before after his eight-year term as minister for com- completing his term as minister for commu-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25989 nications in October 2003? Could the minis- has gone up 28 per cent over the past 12 ter please provide those assurances to the months. This is, of course, great news not Senate? only for workers in that industry; it is great Senator HILL—For me to give those as- news for all the workers with superannuation surances, I should refer that to Mr Alston, funds invested in Australian resources com- obviously, to seek his response. I am rather panies. It is very good news for investment. surprised to hear Senator Faulkner attacking There is a pipeline of billions of dollars of Mr Alston in this way, because I think all resources projects coming down the line. honourable senators would accept that Rich- This does not come around simply as a result ard Alston is a person of the highest personal of good luck. standards. Access Economics—and we all know Ac- Senator Conroy—We’re asking you what cess Economics; they advise the Labor Party, your opinion is. among others—did a report for the Business Council which found that the mining indus- Senator HILL—Is Senator Conroy dis- try achieved higher productivity growth than puting that? To some extent, we on both any other industry sector in Australia be- sides of the chamber have to rely on proper tween 1994 and 2002. That report concluded standards of behaviour from those who retire that this was due to the flexibility of its with particular sources of knowledge. Those workplace arrangements. The mining indus- who leave the parliament are entitled to take try was found to have very high flexibility of employment, but they must do so consistent employment contracts and low reliance on with the obligation to ensure there is no con- awards. In fact, Australian workplace agree- flict of interest. (Time expired) ments operate in 50 per cent of the resources Industry: Resources Sector sector operations, and it is 80 per cent in Senator LIGHTFOOT (2.04 p.m.)—My hard-rock mining. That flexibility has pro- question is directed to the Minister represent- duced very good outcomes for workers in ing the Minister for Industry, Tourism and this industry. Real wages in the mining sec- Resources, Senator the Hon. Nick Minchin. tor have grown by 19 per cent since we came Will the minister update the Senate on the into office, compared with 14 per cent for the strong performance of the resources industry economy as a whole. under the Howard government? Is the minis- I was asked about threats to this. There is ter aware of any emerging risks to the pros- a very significant threat to this performance. perity of Australia’s resources industry? The Labor Party, in deference to its union Senator MINCHIN—I thank Senator masters, has committed to scrapping AWAs, Lightfoot for his question and acknowledge to add to the complexity of awards by ex- his strong support for the Western Australian panding the current 20 allowable matters and resources sector. Australian companies are to restore the commission’s role in regulating currently in the process of reporting their the minutiae of workplace arrangements. interim profit results, and one of the star per- Steve Knott from the Australian Mines and formers in those results is the great Austra- Metals Association summed up the conse- lian resources sector, where predictions are quences of these policies for the industry that earnings growth will be up by about 30 when he said: to 40 per cent. Companies like Alumina and Proposals to return to a monopolistic union Rio Tinto have reported significant increases and tribunal-centred system of industrial relations in their profits, and the index for resources
CHAMBER 25990 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 would have disastrous ... consequences for Aus- ernment ministers, such as Dr Wooldridge, tralia. Mr Fahey, Mr Reith and now Mr Alston, are Labor is proposing to sacrifice the success of causing public disquiet that ministers can this great resources sector of ours on the altar trade on their public position for private of trade union control of workplace relations profit? Does he understand how such actions in Australia. Of course, this is before we take can give rise to suspicion that ministerial account of Labor’s policies in a range of decisions could be made with one eye on other areas that will damage Australia’s re- future employment prospects? Why will the sources sector. government not support Labor’s commitment Senator Chris Evans interjecting— to impose a 12-month ban on former minis- ters taking up paid employment in areas Senator MINCHIN—Senator Evans relevant to their responsibility as ministers? ought to stick up for the resources sector in- stead of supporting these policies, which are Senator HILL—I guess the difference is going to do so much damage in his state if that we believe that former ministers on both they ever get into office. Labor are going to sides can be honourable. We do not necessar- cut the diesel fuel tax rebate, impose a new ily think that an arbitrary period of 12 payroll tax on all employers and sign the months resolves an issue if somebody is not Kyoto protocol and increase the mandatory going to be honourable. renewable energy target. All of these things Senator Faulkner interjecting— are going to be damaging to the resources Senator Chris Evans interjecting— sector, which is our vital and most important The PRESIDENT—Senator Faulkner export sector and a great employer. and Senator Evans, the minister is answering The resources sector is a great success the question. I ask you to come to order. story but it has required hard work and a Senator HILL—If you are going to pro- good policy to bring that about and that is all vide an arbitrary period of 12 months, why under threat. The Labor Party seem to oper- not 24 months, why not six months? Or why ate on the basis that the economy is on auto- not do what the defence department does and pilot, it will all just continue—the resources provide 12 months but allow a discretionary sector will continue to employ Australians no waiver of the 12 months, which seems to matter what they do. They seem to think it occur more often than not? If you are going does not matter what taxes they bring in, to allow the waiver, to whom are you going what regulations they bring in, what union to give the power to grant the waiver? interference they bring in, it will all continue. Well, it will not. Their policies are a grave Senator Ellison interjecting— disservice to the resources sector. They will Senator Faulkner interjecting— do enormous damage to the resources sector. The PRESIDENT—Senator Faulkner Labor senators from Western Australia in and Senator Ellison, conversations while the particular ought to stand up for this industry. minister is on his feet are not allowable. Former Parliamentarians: Business Senator HILL—This issue has risen to- Appointments day because our former colleague Richard Senator CONROY (2.08 p.m.)—My Alston has taken a job. I do not think that question is to Senator Hill, representing the that is an unreasonable thing. Can he manage Prime Minister. Does the minister acknowl- conflict of interest situations? I am sure he edge that the actions of former Howard gov- can. Will he act honourably? Yes, I am abso-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25991 lutely certain he will act honourably. I think government is helping small business, which any senator on the other side who is honest is the engine room of jobs growth in Austra- with himself or herself would agree that they lia? Furthermore, is the minister aware of would have no concern at all in relation to any alternative policies, and what conse- the behaviour of former Senator Alston. quences would these have for Australian Senator CONROY—Mr President, I ask small businesses and their employees? a supplementary question. The minister is Senator ABETZ—I thank Senator agreeing with the Minister for Communica- Santoro for his question and acknowledge tions, Information Technology and the Arts, his longstanding interest in small business. Senator Coonan, that it should just be left to Senator Santoro has introduced me to liter- former ministers themselves to determine ally hundreds of small business operators in whether taking a job creates a conflict of Queensland and has championed their cause. interest. According to Senator Coonan, ‘They Because of his intricate knowledge of small know what they knew and what they didn’t business he rightly describes it as the engine know.’ room of our economy. As Senator Santoro Senator HILL—Labor object to former would know, there are elements within this parliamentarians taking jobs. What about parliament that would seek to turn off that those who take jobs whilst they are still in engine, and they of course are those who sit office—perhaps even prime ministers? What opposite, together with their trade union former Labor Prime Minister invested in masters. Labor, if elected, will institute the piggeries, made decisions in relation to the most job destroying, business bankrupting Commonwealth Bank and negotiated secret system of industrial relations that this coun- treaties with Indonesia when they were try has ever seen. Mr Latham, if elected, is Prime Minister of this country? Wasn’t that set to eclipse the dubious achievements of Mr Keating? How many Labor senators got his mentor Mr Whitlam and devastate the up in this place and said, ‘That is appalling. economy in one term, not in two, as it took We should bring in a 12-month period of Mr Whitlam. grace for Mr Keating. He should be out of Six of Labor’s job destroying policies and office for 12 months before he can invest in disincentives for employment have been an- his piggery’? How many Labor senators got nounced in their recent industrial relations up in this place and said that then? What hy- policy. Firstly, there is a new federal payroll pocrisy! In office, it was Mr Keating; out of tax for every business with 20 or more em- office, it was former Senator Richardson. It ployees. Just imagine what an expanding does not matter: one set of rules for the La- small business would do. You have got 18 or bor Party and another set of rules for the coa- 19 employees, you want to take on a new lition. One set of rules when they are in gov- employee, but if you step onto that threshold ernment and another set of rules when they you start paying tax and there is extra pa- are out of government. (Time expired) perwork. What would you do? You would Small Business: Growth not employ another worker. Just imagine if you did have 20 or 21 workers and Labor Senator SANTORO (2.14 p.m.)—My were to come into office. You would seek to question is to the Special Minister of State, get rid of one or two workers to avoid the Senator Abetz, representing the Minister for cost of that Labor tax and to avoid the pa- Small Business and Tourism. Will the minis- perwork. Labor are willing to sacrifice jobs ter outline to the Senate how the Howard on the altar of higher taxation. Labor want to
CHAMBER 25992 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 kill the economic goose that lays the jobs former minister Richard Alston at any time growth eggs for the Australian people. since she was appointed minister earlier this Secondly, secondary boycotts would be al- year? Has there been any contact between lowed again. Having worked on the Dollar Mr Alston and her staff? When was this con- Sweets case in a personal capacity, I know tact? Who initiated the contact? What was the devastation that secondary boycotts have the nature of the discussions? At the time of on small business. Labor would seek to le- any such contact was the minister aware that galise secondary boycotts. Thirdly, Labor Mr Alston had been engaged as a lobbyist by want to return to an inflexible centralised the Austereo media group? wage fixing system which fails to take into Senator COONAN—I can inform the account the many factors which are needed Senate that the first I knew of former Senator for small business to operate. Fourthly, they Alston’s appointment as a consultant for want to reduce casual employment, forget- Austereo was when the Australian rang me ting that casual employment often grows into last night. I have not had any discussion with full-time employment for those small busi- Mr Alston about this issue at all. It is a le- nesses that are growing. Fifthly, Labor would gitimate point that all ministers face when force independent contractors into being part they leave a ministry, and I think the princi- of the industrial relations system. ple is correct. It is a sound principle that re- Most importantly and finally, what every cently retired ministers should not take up small business hates more than anything else positions that will conflict with their prior is a return to the bad old days of Labor’s un- duties, if in fact that is what is occurring. It is fair unfair dismissal laws. If Labor were not a matter of length of time that will sort willing to abolish those right here and now this out; it is a matter of whether there is a there would be jobs growth in this country of conflict. 50,000 jobs. No wonder the Financial Re- In respect of any of the issues that Mr view has condemned the Australian Labor Alston might be involved with, I suppose Party’s policy in this area as airbrushing out one way of speculating about this is that he the jobless from their industrial relations pol- might be involved in providing some advice icy. Small business has condemned them. about digital radio. He has been gone long The reason that Labor have adopted this pol- enough, since October last year, that he icy is that the Labor senators opposite repre- would not have any knowledge of the out- sent the trade union movement. Each and come of a report that has recently become every one of them is beholden to the trade available to my predecessor and to me and I union movement. When only 17 per cent of doubt whether he would have any knowledge Australian workers are actually in a union we of digital trials. In those circumstances it is have 100 per cent of those opposite en- very difficult to see, on the face of it, how gaged— (Time expired) any experience that Mr Alston might have Former Parliamentarians: Business had in his previous ministry could have had Appointments direct relevance to those particular issues. It is a knee-jerk reaction and it shows that peo- Senator CARR (2.17 p.m.)—My ques- ple who advocate some time limit when min- tion without notice is to Senator Coonan, isters should not take up appointments sim- Minister for Communications, Information ply do not understand that it is a matter of Technology and the Arts. Has the minister whether there is any conflict. You could have for communications had any contact with a conflict three years afterwards—it is possi-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25993 ble—or you might have one as soon as you Senator COONAN—I am able to report leave. That is why you have to judge each of right now because I have had absolutely no these matters on their facts. conversations about Austereo with Mr Alston With respect to former Senator Alston, I at all. Senator Carr seems to have got his have absolutely no reason to think that he is questions completely around the wrong way anything other than a most honourable man. because he was not expecting that answer. He was a very successful communications He has posed his questions on the basis that I minister and he does have a lot of general had had some conversation, and he is abso- experience in the area. We have Mr Tanner lutely dead wrong. The Labor Party really saying, on the one hand, that he was a hope- ought to reflect on some of the extraordinary less minister and then, on the other hand, potential conflicts of interest of some of their complaining about the fact that he is obvi- previous ministers. I might remind you of a ously good enough for his consultancy ser- few. What about Mr Kerin, who was minister vices to be required and in fact sought. It is for primary industries and then became in- an absolute furphy by the Labor Party that volved with the Australian Meat and Live- there is any problem with what the former stock Corporation? What about former min- Senator Alston has sought to do in relation to ister Ros Kelly—who I think is a very decent life after being a minister. person? She was environment minister and now she works with an environmental con- The other point I would make is that this sultancy. The list goes on and on. If we are is very dangerous territory for the Labor seriously going to stand here and take up the Party. The Labor Party is in a glass house Senate’s time, be my guest and keep asking here, throwing stones in circumstances these questions. where the reputations of decent people are, once again, traduced. It is entirely inappro- Aviation: Regional Airport Landing Fees priate to assume that the mere fact of an ap- Senator RIDGEWAY (2.24 p.m.)—My pointment equates to a conflict. I personally question is to Senator Ian Campbell, the resent the imputation that I would have any Minister representing the Minister for Trans- part of it. port and Regional Services. It concerns in- Senator CARR—Mr President, I ask a creased landing fees at regional airports. supplementary question. Given that the min- What steps has the government taken to con- ister has now conceded that she only knew of sult with remote and Indigenous communi- Mr Alston’s involvement with Austereo from ties about the proposed user-pays approach last night, can she now advise the Senate on to airport fees which will result in a likely how many occasions she discussed with him increase in air traffic control fees and airport matters of interest to Austereo? Further, can rescue and firefighting service charges? the minister assure the Senate that Richard What response has the government had from Alston has not passed confidential govern- operators such as flying schools, charter op- ment information on this or other commer- erators and the Royal Flying Doctor Service cial-in-confidence matters to Austereo? If on this question? she cannot provide that assurance now, what Senator IAN CAMPBELL—It is an is- action will she take to satisfy herself on this sue that is very important to rural and remote important matter? When will she be able to communities and of course to remote Abo- report back to the Senate on these questions? riginal communities. During my time in the portfolio I have had regular contact on this
CHAMBER 25994 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 issue. In fact, I made myself a point of con- Minister for Transport and Regional Services tact in Western Australia for the transport is engaged in discussions on this important portfolio for regional and remote interests, issue. We are very keen to make sure that and I certainly listened very carefully to sub- people feel some assurance about future missions made to me by people such as the landing service charges, and we will seek to Royal Aero Club of Western Australia, the give them that assurance as soon as possible. Royal Flying Doctor Service and others. Senator RIDGEWAY—Mr President, I As I understand it, the Airservices Austra- ask a supplementary question. I thank the lia paper that was distributed was an options minister for his answer and the government’s paper. It was driven, as I understand it, by an response in ensuring that the costs will not Australian Competition and Consumer be prohibitive. Is the minister prepared to Commission necessity. The government has give an undertaking to the parliament that the made it quite clear in all of its statements that government will act immediately to offset it will, under no circumstances, allow land- the impact of this proposed restructure of ing fees to become prohibitive for organisa- airport fees? Will he provide that information tions such as the Royal Flying Doctor Ser- to the parliament so that some fair assess- vice, flight training schools or groups, such ment can be made, particularly given the as Aboriginal communities, who need as a likely severe financial impact that it will matter of necessity to have access to goods have on everything from mail services and services through air transport. They need through to the Royal Flying Doctor Service these services particularly during the wet and, more particularly, in relation to the de- season in the north because often roads and livery of fresh food and milk to rural and other potential transportation networks are remote Indigenous communities, who quite simply not there. The government is very frankly are suffering poor health circum- cognisant of this. stances. Getting fresh food there is vital to Airservices are doing what they are re- changing that circumstance. quired to do under the law and under regula- Senator IAN CAMPBELL—Firstly, can tion. In some parts of the country the propos- I make it clear that these price increases are als are being promoted as some sort of law not price increases; they are contained in a that is about to come into force. That is not discussion paper. Airservices Australia will the case; they are out there for discussion. be making a submission to the ACCC in rela- Quite clearly, any senator who has come into tion to the pricing of these services, but the contact with people who have seen that paper government has made its policy quite clear, knows that the sorts of proposed increases and that is that it will make sure that what- are way above what anyone can afford—way ever pricing comes out of the process is fair above what air training schools can afford, and affordable. So I can give reassurance to what Aboriginal communities can afford and those communities that the government will what the Royal Flying Doctor Service can ensure that the pricing of these important air afford. So we are going through a process to services is affordable. We are trying to get bring in a system of landing services charges two policy outcomes: one is affordability and that is fair, equitable and affordable. The the other is high-quality service. The gov- government has given assurances in that re- ernment is absolutely certain we can achieve gard and I am very happy to give Senator that, but I do commend Airservices on the Ridgeway assurances for the communities he consultation process they are going through. represents. The Deputy Prime Minister and
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25995
It is open and transparent, as will be the re- not share their views. We are surprised by mainder of the process. their views because at the time of the— Older Australians Honourable senators interjecting— Senator STEPHENS (2.29 p.m.)—My Senator Chris Evans—They’re all Labor question is to Senator Hill, the Minister rep- Party hacks, are they? resenting the Prime Minister. Does the minis- The PRESIDENT—Order! Senators on ter recall that the Prime Minister has, time my left! Senator Evans, you have been par- after time, stressed the importance of valuing ticularly noisy today. I ask you to come to the experience of older Australians? Didn’t order. Mr Howard, for example as recently as June Senator HILL—At the time of the deci- this year at the Australian of the Year nomi- sion taken by the coalition to enforce UN nations, say that it was so important to value: Security Council resolutions, almost the ... the capacity of the older generation of Austra- whole world believed that Saddam Hussein lians, who have lived through so many periods in had weapons of mass destruction and a con- the history of this country, to give of their wisdom and their experience to the younger generations. tinuing program for development of weapons of mass destruction. It was the view of the Is the wisdom of people such as General intelligence services in the United States, in Gration, Admirals Hudson and Beaumont the United Kingdom, in Australia, in France, and Air Marshal Fennell to be rudely deni- in Germany and in Russia—and so I can go grated by this government through demean- on. It was even the view of Mr Rudd, the ing insults? Why does the government have a shadow spokesman for the ALP in this coun- problem with an older generation of Austra- try, who said, ‘Of course they’ve got weap- lians speaking from wisdom and experience ons of mass destruction.’ That was not the on important issues such as truth in govern- issue; the issue was what was the best course ment? of action to take to reduce the threat from Senator HILL—I thought that was yes- those weapons. If this esteemed group of terday’s question, but I guess 24 hours does elderly Australians hold a different view, so not make a lot of difference. The questions be it. Everyone is entitled to their own view. committee must have had a struggle today: I am just saying to the Senate that their view we have had three on former Senator Alston is the exception rather than the rule. Their and they have gone back to the House of view is not consistent with the finding as to Representatives question time from yester- what evidence was put before the Australian day and dredged out a few repechages. This government, findings by the committees of government does not rudely denigrate older this parliament and also by Mr Flood. But if Australians, even if it disagrees with their— they wish to come out and express that they Government senators—It is like Senator hold a different point of view, so be it. Faulkner and Mr Baillieu. DISTINGUISHED VISITORS Senator HILL—Senator Faulkner de- The PRESIDENT—Order! I would like famed Mr Baillieu. The only mistake was to draw the attention of honourable senators that Mr Baillieu had been dead for years. The to the presence in the chamber of a parlia- family still has not got an apology, I might mentary delegation from the parliament of say. This government have not rudely deni- Ireland, led by Dr Rory O’Hanlon, Chairman grated these individuals. We obviously do of the Dail Eireann. Dr O’Hanlon is accom- panied by Senator Rory Kiely, who is the
CHAMBER 25996 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 chairman of the senate. I warmly welcome really, apart from a bit of humour, what this the delegation to the Australian parliament is all about. The Australian government un- and in particular to the Senate chamber. I der Mr Howard took tough decisions on Iraq trust that your visit is both informative and because we believed it was the best way to enjoyable. With the concurrence of honour- address a threat associated with weapons of able senators I propose to invite both presid- mass destruction. It is easy to be wise after ing officers, the Ceann Comhairle and the the event. It is harder to take the tough deci- Cathaoirleach, to join me here and take seats sions at the time. Mr Howard, leading this on the floor of the Senate, on this historic government, will continue to take them when occasion when both presiding officers from Australia’s national security interests are at the Irish parliament are with us. stake. (Time expired) Honourable senators—Hear, hear! The PRESIDENT—I ask the Senate to Dr O’Hanlon and Senator Kiely were come to order. You are very noisy today. I seated accordingly. did tell my colleagues who are here from the Irish parliament how well behaved the Sen- QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE ate normally is. Unfortunately, you are let- Older Australians ting me down today and I do not like that. Senator STEPHENS—Mr President, I Iraq: Allawi Government ask a supplementary question. I thank the Senator BROWN (2.37 p.m.)—My ques- minister for acknowledging that this was an tion goes to the Minister representing the esteemed group of elderly Australians. Given Minister for Foreign Affairs. It is about tough that at least 13 of the signatories to the decisions in Iraq. I ask the minister, in view statement on the importance of truth in gov- of the defence forces from Australia that are ernment are younger than Mr Howard, has there to promote freedom and democracy, the Prime Minister rebuked the Parliamen- what action the government has taken about tary Secretary to the Minister for Industry, the Allawi government’s decision to close Tourism and Resources for stating ‘when you down al-Jazeera TV in this new democracy have a look at it, in the first instance, there in Iraq. What action has the government are a lot of disgruntled old men who are well taken, in view of our defence forces being in and truly out of the system’? Given that at Iraq, to follow up on the stories in the Ore- least 13 of the signatories are the same age or gonian about the Oregon National Guard younger than the Prime Minister and that witnessing the bashing, beating and inhu- almost half of the signatories are in their 60s, mane and unacceptable treatment of Iraqi has Mr Entsch been disciplined for his attack prisoners under the Allawi government on on the value and wisdom of people who are 29 June last? What action has the govern- the same age as the Prime Minister? ment taken to follow up on reports by Paul Senator HILL—The older I get, the more McGeough regarding the allegation that I respect the elderly. Wisdom is something to Prime Minister Allawi personally shot to be treasured, and it comes with years. We are death six prisoners at a prison in north-west lucky to have such a wise Prime Minister as Baghdad in the month of June? we have in this country, offering great lead- Senator HILL—The interim government ership and being prepared to take the tough in Iraq, headed by Mr Allawi, is obviously decisions, whether they are decisions on the facing major security issues. To some extent, economy or whether they are decisions in insurgents and terrorists have switched their Australia’s national security interests. That is
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25997 primary attack from the coalition, which is responsibilities that he has to keep his people better protected, to the new Iraqi leadership alive in the face of attacks from terrorists and and those who are prepared to very coura- the responsibilities that he has to encourage geously take positions of office for the future foreigners to invest and provide their labour of a better Iraq. I refer to policemen, local within Iraq to help him and his people re- mayors, local governors, judges and the like build their country. I am not going to take the who are being assassinated through the ef- opportunity today to condemn him. I think it forts of the insurgents to destroy the hope would be better if Senator Brown made some and chance of the Iraqi people for a better effort to understand the predicament faced by future. That is the difficult environment in Mr Allawi. which Mr Allawi is operating. I think he has Senator BROWN—Mr President, I ask a started very well. I think his government is supplementary question. The minister has operating quite effectively in terms of the quite clearly indicated that he supports the administration of the various government truncating of the freedom of the media in this departments that are now all up and operat- fledgling democracy. What I want to ask him ing in progressing the security forces. Of about is the other two components of my course, Australia is proud to be helping to question. Firstly, what is the response to the train the new Iraqi army and navy and help- bashing, beating and inhumane treatment of ing to respond to those threats and that vio- prisoners under the Allawi government? lence. Secondly, has this government approached One of the most horrible but nevertheless the US government with a view to finding effective ways of destroying hope in Iraq in out who the US guards were that were al- terms of reconstruction is this practice of leged to have been present in the prison kidnapping those foreigners who are pre- when Mr Allawi personally executed six pared to enter Iraq and contribute their la- prisoners, according to the reports from the bour to rebuilding Iraq. Al-Jazeera has had esteemed journalist Paul McGeough in the the practice of publicising those kidnappings Sydney Morning Herald and the Age? Has and the beheading of kidnapped persons. The the government made that inquiry? fear, of course, is that that encourages a con- Senator HILL—In relation to the behav- tinuation of that abhorrent practice. So I can iour of Iraqi officials, I am pleased to say understand the concerns of Mr Allawi re- that the Australians who are contributing in garding the activities of al-Jazeera because, Iraq, particularly in training security forces, whilst I think that news services obviously are also seeking to educate them in terms of have rights, I think they also have responsi- the values and human rights that we think are bilities. If their broadcasting is such that it important. So that is our contribution to- encourages insurgents to carry out horren- wards better conduct. In relation to the alle- dous activities such as this, I can understand gations that were made about Mr Allawi, it is why Mr Allawi would look at ways in which a matter of interest that I do not think any- he might limit the dissemination of such ma- body else has raised those allegations apart terial. from Senator Brown. Not only have people My prejudice as an Australian brought up not sought to pursue it, I have seen no evi- in this free environment is that I wish to see dence to support it. the media as free as is reasonably possible. But I am not in the environment in which Mr Allawi finds himself. I am not faced with the
CHAMBER 25998 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
Sport: Drug Testing The PRESIDENT—Order! Senators on Senator KIRK (2.44 p.m.)—My question my left! Senator Evans, come to order! is to Senator Coonan, the Minister represent- Senator COONAN—The Olympic ing the Minister for the Arts and Sport. Can Games are due to start very soon and I would the minister inform the Senate of when Min- have thought that if the Labor Party had a ister Kemp was first provided with a copy of patriotic bone in their body they would be or was briefed on the contents of the report actually cheering for our athletes. They of the investigation undertaken by Mr Stan- should be actually getting behind our ath- wix into allegations of drug use at the AIS letes, calling it for Australia and stopping Del Monte facility? Did these briefs or the this constant negative carping about a num- report set out the details of allegations re- ber of inquiries that, so far as I can tell, have garding the involvement of other cyclists, been conducted appropriately and thor- including introducing new members of the oughly—particularly when there is an ongo- team to injection practices, the use of par- ing review, the Anderson report, of the proc- ticular rooms for injections or indeed the esses and procedures in case there was some- broader injection culture which was alleg- thing that was not appropriately handled or edly the case in the AIS cycling team? not handled in the best possible way. That is Senator COONAN—I thank Senator still obviously an ongoing matter, and I Kirk for the question. She will have to wait would have thought that by this stage the for Senator Kemp to return to ask him when Labor Party would have been giving it a rest. he became aware of the report that she refers Senator KIRK—Mr President, I ask a to. Obviously, Senator Kemp is not here in supplementary question. I will ask the minis- the chamber. He has leave because he has a ter to take the question on notice if she number of important meetings that he has to could. I wonder if she, as senior minister in attend. I think some of them relate to some the portfolio, can tell us what action Minister of these matters, the antidoping matters, and Kemp took when he was first informed of some of the very serious problems that many these allegations regarding a broader injec- countries experience in relation to sending tion culture in the AIS Del Monte facility? clean athletes to the games. The Labor Party What immediate actions did he require the has asked Senator Kemp many of these ques- AIS and the Australian Sports Commission tions before. I have actually reviewed what to take? Or does the minister condone the Senator Kemp has said—I have reviewed his apparent lack of any action by Minister answers—and I think he was in fact asked Kemp to clean up this culture until he was yesterday about when he actually received a forced to set up yet another inquiry by reve- report. He has answered that. When you are lations made here in the Senate? asking for something that is within his Senator COONAN—The premise of the knowledge, I think it is entirely appropriate question is that first one has to establish that you should ask him when he returns. when Senator Kemp received the report. I Having said that, I would have thought it have already said that I think that is some- would be important for the Labor Party to at thing that should be put to Senator Kemp. some stage actually get behind our Olympi- The rest of Senator Kirk’s questions then ans. I think the Olympic Games are due to flow from establishing that one way or the start in something less than a week. other. But what I can say from Senator Opposition senators interjecting— Kemp’s brief here, which is very fulsome, is
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 25999 that he has acted appropriately and he has billion. That should be looked at in the light acted promptly. There have now been, I of the fact that we were able to pay families, think, about four inquiries, one of which is just before the end of June, $2 billion in fam- ongoing. It is time that the Labor Party let ily bonuses and benefits. That $1.9 billion in this rest. savings now equates to $49 million a week— Social Welfare: Fraud not $44 million but now $49 million a week of taxpayers’ money that would otherwise be Senator HUMPHRIES (2.49 p.m.)—My in the pockets of people who are either question is to the Minister for Family and cheating and abusing the system or just not Community Services, Senator Patterson. Will bothering to tell Centrelink that their circum- the minister update the Senate on what the stances have changed. Either way, they are Howard government has done to crack down not entitled to the payment. If they are cheat- on welfare cheats and to ensure that Austra- ing, abusing or not bothering to tell Centre- lian taxpayer funds are targeted at those in link about changes in their circumstances need? Is the minister aware of any alternative they are not entitled to that money. They are policies? not entitled to the $49 million a week that we Senator PATTERSON—Since 1996, are now saving. That is $49 million a week when we came into government, we have that can now go into other projects, such as instituted a number of measures and a num- the young carers project that we had in the ber of programs to actually improve welfare last budget and assisting families with a bo- compliance. That has been in order to ensure nus. that taxpayers’ money is spent on improved What are the alternative policies? We have services, rather than wasted on welfare fraud been waiting 89 days for Labor. I think it is or overpayment. These have included a 89 days today since Mr Latham said, in his number of measures: increasing the number budget reply, that he would respond by re- of reviews, widening the data matching se- leasing a family and tax policy. Laurie Fer- lection criteria and specific programs which guson, Tanya Plibersek and Bob McMullan review activity. Unlike the Labor Party, have all suggested that there will be in- which presided over record fraud and non- creased taxation. Mr Latham has said that he compliance, we are behaving in a responsible will not raise company taxes, he will not way. The Howard government is responsibly raise capital gains tax and he will lower the managing taxpayer funds. personal rate. He has also promised budget In this year we have announced measures surpluses—increased spending but lower that build on successful initiatives from pre- taxes. vious budgets that detect and prevent cases The devil is always in the detail of La- of incorrect payments. For example, in this bor’s policies, and when you look at their last budget we announced the Keeping the policies on superannuation you see a super System Fair campaign. That is expected to blooper. When you look at the baby payment actually result in net savings to taxpayers of you can see some of the issues concerning $215 million. As a result of the various when you have your baby and what your measures—and these are measures that have income is. Now we have Labor’s IR policy— ranged across the time of Jocelyn Newman, a policy which is about returning to union Amanda Vanstone and me—the latest figures dominated wages, a federal payroll tax, a tax show that to 31 March this year there is an on jobs and an inflexible working environ- estimated net saving to taxpayers of $1.9 ment. The greatest risk from a Labor gov-
CHAMBER 26000 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 ernment is that we will see a blow-out in military. Therefore we should make efforts, unemployment welfare payments. That is when we are publicly seen or photographed what we will see—an unemployment blow- or whatever with the military, to avoid it be- out. We have seen it before. We saw it when ing portrayed as an endorsement by the mili- Labor was in government before. We saw it tary of a particular party or political position. when we had high interest rates. We saw it I do not know the circumstances under which when we had high inflation. What did those General Cosgrove autographed something. I things result in? They resulted in high unem- will make some inquiries about that. I sup- ployment. It is not just that Labor cannot pose the issue is whether those who were at manage the welfare system. You have to be this particular function would interpret that able to manage the welfare system but you as some sort of endorsement by General also have to manage the economy. The num- Cosgrove of the member for Moncrieff. My ber of people on unemployment benefits will view is that I doubt that they would see it in rise, undoubtedly, under Labor. (Time ex- those terms. They would, rather, see the sig- pired) nature of value being that of an important Liberal Party of Australia: Electoral Australian, a former Australian of the Year. I Fundraising will make inquiries and if I think I need to speak to the member for Moncrieff in rela- Senator FAULKNER (2.54 p.m.)—Can tion to the matter I will do so. the minister confirm that in Senate estimates in June, the Chief of the Defence Force, Senator FAULKNER—Mr President, I General Cosgrove, emphatically stated: ask a supplementary question. I suspect that General Cosgrove did not know about this. There is a convention that is well understood that we will seek to avoid an overt association of a The key point here is that it is in clear con- military person in an image or in any other way travention of that important statement that with a political activity. the general made in estimates. I ask whether Is the minister aware that the member for the minister, in the light of this, will take Moncrieff, Mr Ciobo, at a function held to steps to ensure that the member for Mon- raise funds for his election campaign, auc- crieff donates the $4,000 raised by the unau- tioned a framed reproduction of Will thorised use of General Cosgrove’s name and Dyson’s The Mate, autographed by the Chief position to a suitable charity. Perhaps Legacy of the Defence Force, General Cosgrove? would be an appropriate charity in this cir- Can the minister advise the Senate whether cumstance. While the minister is at it, can he General Cosgrove was aware that the repro- indicate to the Senate whether he believes it duction was to be used for Liberal Party was appropriate for the member for Mon- campaign fundraising purposes? If, as I sus- crieff to use the Australian coat of arms im- pect, that was not the case, can the minister mediately above the words ‘fundraising auc- inform the Senate of whether he or the mem- tion’ on the cover of this booklet? ber for Moncrieff have apologised to General Senator HILL—The Labor Party is on Cosgrove for the unauthorised use of his the big picture issues again—the future of name and position? this government! I guess that avoids the need Senator HILL—I think it was established for policy development, doesn’t it? We fi- in the estimates that there is no rule, as such, nally got a defence policy the other day: but it is obviously of interest to the military chocolate bars should be withdrawn from the and the political system not to politicise the ration packs of soldiers. I am sorry that Sena- tor Evans was deposed but finally we got a
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26001 policy from the Labor Party: chocolate bars instruct the minister as to when he wants to have to be taken out of the ration packs of call time. soldiers as a savings measure. As the election Senator Robert Ray—On the point of approaches it is time for the Labor Party to order, Mr President: you consistently do not take its responsibility seriously. It is time for start question time at two o’clock. It is nearly it to start developing some policy. It is time always 20 or 25 seconds later, for good rea- for it to put some alternatives to the Austra- son. I am asking you to start it right on two lian people on the matters that really count. o’clock in future so that we can have the full (Time expired) hour. You did not start it right on two o’clock Senator Hill—Mr President, I ask that today. further questions be placed on the Notice The PRESIDENT—Senator Ray, the rea- Paper. son I do not start right on two o’clock is to Opposition senators interjecting— allow the broadcast to come on line. Today I The PRESIDENT—The minister has started question time at 10 seconds after two. called time, I am sorry. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: Senator Bartlett—Mr President, on a ADDITIONAL ANSWERS point of order: is Minister Hill seriously try- Social Welfare: Age Pensions ing to call question time to an end before one Senator PATTERSON (Victoria— hour is up, or does he want a contingent no- Minister for Family and Community Ser- tice of motion? vices and Minister Assisting the Prime Min- Senator Faulkner—Mr President, on the ister for the Status of Women) (3.02 p.m.)— point of order: is it competent for the minis- Senator Harris asked me a question without ter to ask that further questions be placed on notice yesterday regarding Centrelink’s pur- notice with 20 seconds to go before the— suit of an overpayment which had been Government senators interjecting— waived by the Administrative Appeals Tribu- nal. I can assure Senator Harris that in this Senator Faulkner—Well, that is the case the proper legal processes have been truth. As you know, Mr President, question followed at all times. I think Senator Harris time, under our standing orders—which have has misunderstood the situation he raised in been in place for more than a decade in rela- the Senate yesterday. The debt being pursued tion to the timing of question time—goes by Centrelink had not been waived; it had from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m. It is not competent— been written off by the Administrative Ap- and I am sure you know it, Mr President— peals Tribunal. The difference is that a for the minister to cut off question time be- waived debt is one on which no further re- fore 3 p.m. That is what he did. I think you covery action occurs. A written off debt, as in should call Senator Bartlett. I know the gov- this case, is one on which no immediate re- ernment are embarrassed, but let them an- covery action occurs, because the customer swer a few questions. does not have the capacity to repay the debt The PRESIDENT—Senator Faulkner, at that time. Recovery can occur once the the minister has called time. It is now well circumstances allowing for debt recovery after three o’clock, and I believe that when change. he called time it was on the understanding I have been advised that this was made that it had been an hour. It may have been a clear in the tribunal’s decision and to the le- few seconds less, but really it is not for me to gal representatives of the customer con-
CHAMBER 26002 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 cerned. The Administrative Appeals Tribunal QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: affirmed that the customer had been paid an TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS age pension to which he was not entitled, as Answers to Questions he had exceeded the allowable assets thresh- Senator FAULKNER (New South old. Prior to this, the customer had used all Wales—Leader of the Opposition in the Sen- appeals mechanisms available to him, and in ate) (3.05 p.m.)—I move: each instance the decision had been affirmed. Records show that the customer had been That the Senate take note of the answers given contacted on several occasions while he was by the Minister for Defence (Senator Hill) to questions without notice asked today. on age pension and that he had failed to up- date his circumstances until this was brought I particularly want to focus on the very im- to Centrelink’s attention five years ago. The portant question asked by Senator Stephens Administrative Appeals Tribunal recognised about truth in government, which of course that the customer had no capacity to repay was the thrust of the document signed by 43 the debt at that point in time, so the debt was retired senior military, diplomatic and Public written off until the customer or his estate Service professionals. I have to ask what is had the capacity to pay. wrong with the statement from these eminent Australians that: This ruling was in accordance with section 1236 of the Social Security Act 1991 and ... truth in government ... is fundamental to effec- with the government’s policy of not placing tive parliamentary democracy. people in financial hardship when recovering That is what the statement says. What is overpayments. When a customer’s circum- wrong with that? What is wrong with the part stances change, there may be a settlement. of their statement that says: For example, after the customer dies Centre- Without that trust, the democratic structure of our link can contact the executor or surviving society will be undermined and with it our stand- parties and negotiate a settlement. If there is ing and influence in the world. no response, Centrelink can commence legal That is the approach Mr Howard condemns, action. In this case, Centrelink was required disagrees with and says is no longer relevant. to commence legal action. Subsequently, the Of course he attacks these signatories as be- executor agreed to a settlement. ing older—‘some of the older approaches are The Howard government are committed to no longer relevant’. That is a typical gratui- ensuring that people receive their correct tous piece of Howard dog-whistling—a entitlements under social security law and Howard government insult. That is what you repay any outstanding overpayments. How- expect. ever, we do not want people to be put under I say that truth in government is vital to hardship and we will negotiate suitable ar- Australian democracy. But what have we rangements for them to repay their debts. It seen? As has been pointed out, we have seen is imperative that customers advise Centre- the sorry spectacle of two frontbenchers in link of the full details of their circumstances Mr Howard’s government, two parliamentary when they apply for payment and that they secretaries, Mr Entsch and Mrs Kelly, attack- advise it of any changes in these circum- ing the age and the credibility of these 43 stances to ensure that they receive the right signatories. They could not attack the sub- payment and do not incur an overpayment. stance of the statement, so of course, as al- ways, they played the individuals. What did Mr Howard do? He hinted that these 43 sig-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26003 natories are too old really to know any better. tralians have nailed him. The 43 signatories What has been exposed here in question time to this truth in government statement know today is the hypocrisy of Mr Howard. In precisely that we went to war on a lie. The June this year at the Australian of the Year parliament knows it and the Australian peo- nominations what did he say? He said it was ple know it. How typical of the Howard gov- so important to value: ernment to shoot the messenger—to belittle, ... the capacity of the older generation of Austra- to demean, to undermine and to attack those lians, who have lived through so many periods in very fine Australians. The truth is that it is the history of this country, to give of their wisdom Mr Howard who stands condemned for his and their experience to the younger generations. actions— (Time expired) Those are Mr Howard’s own words, but of Senator BRANDIS (Queensland) (3.10 course it does not apply, Senator Brandis, in p.m.)—It is not a question of age; it is a this instance, does it? question of contemporaneity. It is a question Senator Brandis interjecting— of whether the 43 signatories to that docu- Senator FAULKNER—It does not apply, ment had the contemporary knowledge of a because he is worried, Senator Brandis, post September 11 environment. The rele- about your boy, Peter Costello, coming vant fact that Senator Faulkner did not con- through and he is worried about you being in descend to tell us was that not one of them there behind him. We know that. It is just did. I do not doubt that each of those 43 gen- absolute hypocrisy from Mr Howard. It is an tlemen—I think they were all gentlemen— amazing thing, but in opposition sometimes served Australia with distinction during their you have a bit of time on your hands. We careers in the second half of the 20th century, have done a quick check of Who’s Who for but not one of them has had contemporary these signatories. We found that 13 of these experience of the strategic situation in which ‘older Australians’ are younger than Mr Australia now lives after September 11. Howard himself. He is older than at least 13 Senator Faulkner, we all believe in truth in of them. We have not checked the lot yet— government. I believe you believe in it, and we just have not had enough time on our you know that I believe in it, but I also be- hands to do that—but a quick search so far lieve in something else: I believe in truth in shows that 13 are younger than John How- opposition. ard. Our checking has also shown that five of Senator Faulkner interjecting— those on the list are recipients of the Com- Senator BRANDIS—Senator Faulkner, panion of the Order of Australia, nine have you are out of order. You should not be inter- been awarded the Order of Australia and four jecting from out of your seat. have been awarded AMs. This is not just any The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Senator old advice; this is quality advice that the Brandis, you are not in the chair, thank you. I Howard government should take account of. am in the chair. The signatories have had outstanding ser- vice—both length and quality of service—to Senator BRANDIS—No, I am not, but I our nation and in public administration in am drawing your attention to Senator Faulk- this country. What rankles Mr Howard is that ner’s disorderliness. I believe in truth in op- they correctly nail the Prime Minister for position. What Senator Faulkner did was going to war in Iraq on a lie. He is squealing misrepresent the character of the document. I like a stuck pig because these eminent Aus- am sorry to say that Senator Faulkner, for whom, as I think senators would know, I
CHAMBER 26004 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 have a great deal of respect, wasted his time has been attracted to this letter. It is an ex- today. Of all the things that Senator Faulkner treme case, I will agree, but it is typical of does well, the thing he does best, I think, is the document. The signatories have these to engage in somewhat recondite essays into two things in common. First of all, most of Labor Party history. When we hear Senator them—not all of them, I will concede—are Faulkner talk about the arcane corners of known Labor Party partisans who are inter- Australian Labor Party history, it is an intel- ested in pursuing a political agenda and, sec- lectual delight. If Senator Faulkner had used ondly, none of them have contemporary in- his time more wisely than to give the speech formation. he has just given, he could have told us about Another of the signatories was my old one of the signatories among the 43: Dr John friend Sir Richard Peek, the very model of a Burton. I pick on Dr John Burton because he modern major general or perhaps the model is perhaps the least contemporary of those of a modern admiral of the fleet, who we saw signatories, having retired from the service during the ‘children overboard’ inquiry. He of the Commonwealth of Australia in, I was the gentleman who said that I should be think, 1954. Dr John Burton was the protege taken out and shot—something with which of Dr Evatt. I think he was Dr Evatt’s private perhaps Labor senators would agree. Sir secretary when Dr Evatt was the Minister for Richard Peek began his career in the Royal External Affairs in the 1940s. Australian Navy in 1928 during the prime Senator Faulkner, if he had used his time ministership of Stanley Melbourne Bruce more usefully, could have told us that Dr and retired in, I think, 1976. That was the John Burton was the golden boy of the New degree of contemporaneity of that eminent South Wales branch of the Labor Party in the gentleman’s knowledge. So it is not about 1940s and the early 1950s—as you would age, but it is about contemporaneity and know, Senator Forshaw. He could have told about who has a political agenda. us that Dr John Burton, when he was a Senator STEPHENS (New South Wales) young man in the early 1950s, was seen by (3.15 p.m.)—Having listened to Senator some as a future Labor Prime Minister of Brandis’s contribution, I think he is abso- Australia. There were attempts made to get lutely wrong. It was about the fact that these Dr John Burton preselected for a safe Labor people are very concerned about our national seat somewhere in Sydney—my memory interest and it certainly was not about where escapes me as to where it was, but no doubt they may or may not be aligned politically. It Senator Faulkner could have told us if he had was certainly about their call for truth in used his time more usefully. Dr Burton failed government. I find it hard to believe, as we in his attempt to be preselected when he was heard last night and yesterday, that the mem- the golden, young rising star of the Labor bers for Leichhardt and Dawson would de- Party in the late 1940s and early 1950s. His liberately have cast such a slur on the integ- political career was snuffed out by factional rity of a group of such highly respected indi- intrigue before it had an opportunity to get viduals calling for honesty in government— off the ground. I believe Dr Burton left Aus- something which they themselves would tralia in about 1954. I do not know when he surely agree with. In Mrs Kelly’s description returned, but most of this man’s career, more of ‘doddering daiquiri diplomats’, I am than 50 years ago, was enjoyed in the United afraid she was dazzled by the attraction of Kingdom. So, if we are talking about con- alliterative plosives and distracted from the temporaneity, that is the sort of signatory that
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26005 substance of the statement by the fact of the some serious activity in mind and they did birth date of its signatories. not append their signatures without conscien- Senator Ferguson interjecting— tiously examining the issues. Senator STEPHENS—The age of the Senator Ferguson interjecting— signatories is certainly not relevant, and I am Senator STEPHENS—A little examina- sure Senator Ferguson would agree. It is their tion of conscience, Senator Lightfoot, never message that was important. As Mr Woolcott did anyone any harm. It often happens in our pointed out on Lateline last night—and I individual as well as our political lives that must say that his dignity actually made a we become self-satisfied and must rely on marked contrast with the unseemliness of the others to firmly remind us of the standards reported retorts of the members of the gov- that we should be aspiring to. ernment—denigrating senior public servants Senator Ferguson—Where is Senator because they happen to be born before either Lightfoot? Mrs Kelly or Mr Entsch seems to me to be Senator STEPHENS—I am sorry. Sena- dragging a fairly red herring across what was tor Ferguson, I apologise. Can I say, though, a serious attempt to improve the calibre of Senator Ferguson, that instead of keeping our public life. The thinking seems to be, in a their opinions to themselves the people who nutshell, that they are old and that therefore presented this statement were right to air we can laugh at them and nobody will seri- them. They had nothing personal to gain and ously examine what they have to say. But I certainly, from the way that they have been would suggest that we should be doing ex- berated here today, they had a lot to lose. For actly that. I wonder exactly what Mrs Kelly those of us who listened to what they had to was thinking and whether her admiration for say, there was certainly a benefit to be had. the Prime Minister has actually diminished since he recently turned 65, and I wonder Mr Entsch thinks these people had an axe what members of The Nationals, who them- to grind and we heard today that Senator selves are not necessarily the sprightliest Macdonald considers them all to be ‘Labor demographic group around, thought when hacks’—hardly the case—as if they had an they heard Mrs Kelly’s dismissive remark undisclosed end to serve. What they say is that these old people ‘should keep their opin- that what we all want is truth in government. ions to themselves’. I suggest that they Mr Howard says they are wrong. But are should do exactly the opposite. The com- they wrong to actually say Australia’s in- bined experience of 43 eminent people in volvement in the war against terror has in- public life is something to be valued and not creased our danger of being a target to terror- scorned. If their combined wisdom tells us ists? I do not think so. When did the terror- that we need to raise the bar as far as honesty ists name this country as a target before we and integrity are concerned then we all on went to war in Iraq? The fact that what these both sides of politics would do well to listen. people say may be unpalatable does not I cannot help thinking of Bertrand Russell’s mean that it is not true. In the light of the remark when he said: articulate and succinct expression in this statement, it is clear that the signatories are The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. far from being mentally feeble or inept, and I have great difficulty in understanding how These are unquestionably intelligent people the member for Dawson could describe them who did not compose their statement without as ‘doddering’. I think we are justified to ask
CHAMBER 26006 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 if Mrs Kelly herself was caught napping in how many former diplomats who have the comfort zone she was so sure was the served in the Australian foreign affairs de- domicile of the signatories. As for the re- partment over the past 20 years—the time mainder of her comment, I really have no during which these people have retired— reason to believe the actual consumption of actually disagree with that statement. If they daiquiris had any influence on what she said found about 13 or 14 people to sign on to it, I and I have no doubt that in the sober light of wonder how many of our former diplomats day she might consider the insulting nature would totally disagree with it. I can tell you of her words and apologise. (Time expired) that a number of these so-called eminent Senator FERGUSON (South Australia) Australians said it was not a political state- (3.20 p.m.)—Firstly can I say to Senator ment. What about one of them, Mr Tony Stephens that if she thinks we were not a Kevin, who castigated the government at the terrorist target before we went to Iraq she ‘children overboard’ inquiry with very dubi- must be the only person in this chamber who ous suppositions? He said everything possi- has not heard of what happened in Bali and ble and mercilessly went after the Howard also what was planned in Singapore—long government based on a theory that he had, before we went to Iraq. Senator Stephens, with no facts whatsoever. As soon as he had you may need to update your knowledge. finished giving evidence, he went to work Indeed I may look like Senator Lightfoot, but for Mr Kevin Rudd. How impartial is Mr I am on the ball in that regard and you are Tony Kevin, a person whom I would not call not. Isn’t it very strange that the first time an eminent Australian? Certainly lots of peo- one of the 43 signatories to the statement, ple who work with him would not call him General Peter Gration, was interviewed he an eminent Australian, although some would. said, ‘This is not meant to be a political Senator Brandis raised the issue of Admi- statement.’ Have you ever heard anything so ral Peek. Admiral Peek also gave evidence to ridiculous in your life? Not meant to be a the ‘children overboard’ inquiry and gave us political statement! He also said that the de- the benefit of his knowledge, none of which mocratic structure of our society had been had been gained since 1976. Admiral Peek, undermined because Australia went to war in who is now 90 years of age, certainly would Iraq based on misleading the Australian be totally unaware of any of the recent and population and based on a lie. The shadow contemporary knowledge that we have in defence minister, Mr Kim Beazley, does not both intelligence and information that might agree with him, Senator Robert Ray could be put out by the foreign affairs department. not possibly agree with him and Mr Leo The other usual suspects on the list who have McLeay, a former Speaker, could not possi- been willing to criticise the Howard govern- bly agree with him, because they all signed ment since 1996 have had nothing to do with on to a unanimous report which says exactly the Iraq war and nothing to do with all of the the opposite to what these supposedly emi- issues that they raised in their statement. nent Australians said in this public statement. Most of those people have been usual sus- These 43 Australians cobbled together—it pects for a long time, because they have done must have been in some haste—this state- nothing but criticise the Howard government ment or got together to write this statement, ever since it was elected in 1996. as Senator Stephens says. In fact, the state- Mr Howard did say that it is important to ment would have been written by two or value the capacity of older Australians, and it three and signed by all the rest. I wonder is important to value their capacity, provided
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26007 they are sticking to subjects that they have heads of departments. Many of these—dare I some contemporary knowledge of and first- say all of them—have continued their inter- hand information about. None of those peo- est and involvement in looking at the great ple on that list, with the exception of one— issues facing the world today. They did not there may have been one who retired after just stop thinking about what happens around 11 September 2001—is conscious of or has the world when they retired. For the Prime any knowledge of the information or advice Minister and others to get up and say ‘Be- that was provided to this government before cause you worked in those areas before Sep- it made its decisions. Not one of them has tember 11, you have nothing valuable to con- been privy to the changing circumstances tribute’ is in itself an insult to those people that have been a part of our world since and to all other retired and elderly people in 11 September 2001, when we commenced this country. The suggestion that the moment the war on terrorism after those terrible acts you leave the work force you somehow have took place at the twin towers in New York. no more to offer or your opinion is worthless Sure, we value the contributions of older because you are no longer working in the Australians, but we do not value the unin- field was the essence of Senator Brandis’s formed opinions of older Australians. No arguments about contemporaneity. matter what capacity they had or respect they The other falsehood of the argument put enjoyed while they were in a job, once they by Senator Ferguson is that they were not are retired and no longer privy to the knowl- privy to the intelligence that this government edge that is available to those who have to had. Out of the mouth that has just spoken make decisions— (Time expired) was the flaw in the government’s argument, Senator FORSHAW (New South Wales) because the biggest failing in terms of Sep- (3.25 p.m.)—I have just listened intently to tember 11 in the US was the failure of intel- Senator Ferguson’s attempt to defend the ligence. The greatest military nation on this outrageous attacks by members of the gov- earth with the greatest, most sophisticated ernment, particularly Mrs De-Anne Kelly intelligence network in the world still was and Mr Warren Entsch, on the 43 eminent, unable to predict the events of September 11. distinguished Australians who signed that It was unable to stop them. Here in Australia letter calling for truth in government. Two we have had finding after finding that clearly arguments were advanced by the govern- demonstrates that there were systemic fail- ment’s spokespeople, including Senator Fer- ures of intelligence in this country with re- guson, to try to discredit those eminent Aus- spect to Bali. With respect to our involve- tralians. ment in Iraq, just as with the ‘children over- The first is that they are all retired from board’ issue, we have seen failures of intelli- their respective positions of diplomats and gence and on occasions—maybe not on all military chiefs of the Army, Navy, Defence occasions but certainly on some—a deliber- Force and so on, and they had all retired be- ate distortion of the message and the intelli- fore September 11. The argument is that, gence and a refusal to accept the intelligence because they are retired and are not in active that was coming through. We know in re- service, they somehow have nothing to con- spect of Bali, for instance, that there was tribute. These people are not living on the intelligence that warned Australians, the de- moon. These are people who have had partment and the minister about potential lengthy, distinguished careers in the military problems with terrorism. and in foreign affairs as diplomats or as
CHAMBER 26008 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
Senator Ferguson and the Prime Minister these distinguished Australians at any time talk about the world having changed after throughout their careers, but let us not forget September 11. The problem is that the issues that these are Australian citizens who are of terrorism and the threat from al-Qaeda being denigrated, mocked, ridiculed, patron- were in existence before September 11, not ised and trivialised—not just in the Senate just in the Middle East or in America but also today under parliamentary privilege but in in our region. On your government’s watch, the public and community sphere. It is a dis- Senator Ferguson, you failed. You cannot grace, and I am embarrassed by a debate now turn around and attack these distin- such as this, even though politically I may guished Australians because they happen to not line up with some of those Australians. have expressed an opinion which is different Over many years I have been used to this from this government’s. place and this executive government derid- But, of course, that is the approach of this ing, trivialising and patronising youth and government. When you do not like the mes- talking about wisdom relating to age and sage, you change it or ignore it, just as you about the invaluable notion of experience did in the children overboard affair. When and relating that to age. But, today, we have you do not like the message and you cannot done the opposite. It is all about contempo- change it, because it is so blatant it stares raneity. It is all about older people and if you in the face, you attack the messenger, they are ‘informed’. Let us not forget the just as the member for Dawson, Mrs De- statement that was made in this place: that Anne Kelly, had the temerity to attack these we value the views of informed older Austra- people as ‘doddering daiquiri diplomats’. lian but we do not value the views of unin- This is the woman who has threatened to formed older Australians. Let that sentence cross the floor several times in defence of go out into the community. Who are we to her community but chickened out on every determine whether we value informed or occasion. People like Warren Entsch have otherwise views of the citizens that we repre- attacked these distinguished Australians. And sent? What a horrific and disgraceful debate. who do we finally have in the papers today? As for the issue at substance—whether or We get the real doddering fools like Paddy not this nation went to war on a lie—we can McGuinness, Piers Akerman and others try- express our personal and legislative views, ing to defend this government and attacking and my views and those of my party are well the record of these fine and distinguished known. This nation was, in my opinion, Australians. We are led by a Prime Minister taken to war on a lie. It was not something who thinks that older people should make a that was substantiated or that evidence was contribution. (Time expired) appropriate or whether it was weapons of Senator STOTT DESPOJA (South Aus- mass destruction or any other terror link— tralia) (3.30 p.m.)—This is a disgraceful de- whatever rationale was given, we know the bate. What a disgrace this government is in truth and citizens know the truth. And let us the Senate. What other nation on this earth never ‘shoot the messenger’, which is an with a democracy comparable to ours would expression that has been used. When citizens have a debate that denigrated 43 of its emi- express their opinion, whether we consider it nent, high-achieving citizens? They are citi- valuable because it is informed or not, how zens who have helped to make this nation dare we denigrate it. what it is. Not all of us will agree with the sentiments or the comments expressed by
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26009
To take 43 of our most distinguished, about time Australian citizens knew that serving, eminent Australians and talk about there was a cooling-off period for ministers. them in this way has been shocking. Whether (Time expired) it is Mrs Kelly, Michael Baume—whom I Question agreed to. watched on Lateline with absolute stunned PETITIONS wonder last night—or members of this par- liament, they should know better. Yes, by all The Clerk—A petition has been lodged means we can agree to disagree, but the per- for presentation as follows: sonalising of this debate has been shocking. Military Detention: Australian Citizens It does not surprise me—but I thought that if To the Honourable the President and Members of you were going to pick on people you might the Senate in Parliament assembled: not pick on people as distinguished and wise The Petition of the undersigned shows: as these people and make this debate about • that the treatment of Mamdouh Habib is con- age. trary to longstanding international conven- I have to admit how ironic it is after all tions on the treatment of prisoners these years—and I can see Senator Kerry Your petitioners ask that the Senate should: Nettle sitting near me; the two of us know • ensure that Australian citizen, Mamdouh more than most in this place about having Habib’s legal and humanitarian rights are ac- our opinions devalued because of our age, knowledged, especially following the United although maybe not so much these days, I States Supreme Court decision that all pris- hope—that the opposite debate now stands. oners have immediate access to their families This is nothing to do with age. This is about and lawyers truth, accountability and honesty in govern- • immediately send an official deputation to ment—government scrutiny, and truth and George W. Bush asking that Mamdouh Habib openness in government. How dare we per- be returned to Australia sonalise this debate. • ensure that if Mamdouh Habib is charged In my remaining minute I was going to with a crime he has a civil trial in Australia comment on the cooling-off period to which by The President (from 15 citizens). the Labor Party have today made comment Petition received. on as another aspect of truth in government. I NOTICES put on record the private member’s bill I Presentation moved as leader of the Australian Democrats back in February 2002 which did provide for Senator Mason to move on the next day a cooling-off period. On that occasion Minis- of sitting: ter Hill, in his response to me in question That the time for the presentation of the report time two years ago, made it clear that he did of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral not support that notion. At the time I got the Matters on electoral funding and disclosure and impression that the Labor Party did not sup- any amendments to the Commonwealth Electoral port it, so today I welcome their support for Act necessary in relation to political donations be extended to 30 September 2004. such an idea and I urge them to consider my private member’s bill on this issue. It looks Senator Heffernan to move on the next at different experiences—certainly the sec- day of sitting: ond reading speech does—around the world. That the Rural and Regional Affairs and In light of former Senator Alston’s employ- Transport Legislation Committee be authorised to ment that was announced today, I think it is hold a public meeting during the sitting of the
CHAMBER 26010 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
Senate on Wednesday, 11 August 2004, from 4.30 (v) amendments to the Native Title Act pm to 8 pm, to take evidence for the committee’s 1993 have further diminished Indige- inquiry into the provisions of the Agriculture, nous land rights; Fisheries and Forestry Legislation Amendment (c) notes that: Bill (No. 2) 2004. (i) self-determination is a human right Senator Ridgeway to move on the next enshrined in international law, that ser- day of sitting: vices to Indigenous people are most ef- That the Senate— fective when they are controlled and run by Indigenous people, and that In- (a) notes that: digenous self-determination in Austra- (i) 9 August 2004 was International Day lia has been attacked by the Howard of the World’s Indigenous Peoples, Government’s mainstreaming ap- (ii) this is the final year of the International proach, including the recent abolition Decade of the World’s Indigenous Peo- of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Is- ples, which commenced in 1995, and lander Commission, and the tendering (iii) the theme of the decade was ‘Indige- out of Indigenous Legal Services, and nous people—partnership in action’, (ii) Australia is the only state which has with the focus on strengthening inter- spoken, in the inter-sessional Working national cooperation for the solution of Group, against the inclusion of any problems faced by Indigenous people language of self-determination in the in such areas as human rights, the envi- draft Declaration on the Rights of In- ronment, development, education and digenous Peoples; and health; (d) calls on the Government to: (b) notes that Mr John Howard’s Coalition (i) immediately abandon its alternative Government has been in power for eight draft Declaration on the Rights of In- of the 10 years in which the human rights digenous Peoples, as this contravenes of Indigenous people have been an inter- the basic anti-discrimination principles national focus and that, in those past 8 of the common article 2 of the Interna- years: tional Covenant on Civil and Political (i) the gap between the life expectancy of Rights and the International Covenant Indigenous and non-Indigenous Austra- on Economic, Social and Cultural lians has widened, Rights, and (ii) Indigenous Australians continue to (ii) engage in constructive dialogue with suffer from ill-health at drastically Indigenous groups in Australia, and to higher rates than non-Indigenous Aus- ensure that any proposal to alter the tralians, for example, Indigenous peo- current text of the draft declaration ad- ple suffer from middle ear infections at heres to the principles espoused by a rate that is more than 4 times that de- Mick Dodson in 1996, namely, the pro- termined by the World Health Organi- posal must be reasonable, necessary zation to constitute a national health and strengthen the existing text, and emergency, accord with the principles of equality, (iii) the rates of imprisonment of Indige- non-discrimination and the absolute nous Australians have increased com- prohibition of racial discrimination. pared to those of non-Indigenous Aus- Senator Allison to move on the next day tralians, of sitting: (iv) the ratio of Indigenous to non- That there be laid on the table by the Minister Indigenous university students has de- for Finance and Administration, no later than 1 clined, and pm on 12 August 2004, the document containing
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26011 the Commonwealth sites, including offshore is- That the Senate— lands and territories, listed as potential sites for (a) notes that: the storage of nuclear waste and referred to by the Minister on the Australian Broadcasting Corpora- (i) the High Court of Australia on Friday, 6 August 2004, gave rulings addressing tion’s AM Program on 14 July 2004. two areas of great significance regard- Senator Sherry to move 15 sitting days ing existing Australian legislation, after today: (ii) the ruling showed that there is a lack of That new Divisions 9.2A and 9.2B in item [10] any statutory provisions for stateless of Schedule 1 to the Superannuation Industry people within the jurisdiction of Aus- (Supervision) Amendment Regulations 2004 (No. tralia, resulting in the possibility of 2), as contained in Statutory Rules 2004 No. 84 lifetime detention for any stateless per- and made under the Superannuation Industry son who was not granted a protection (Supervision) Act 1993, be disallowed. visa but cannot be deported to any Senator Greig to move, contingent on the other country, and notice of motion for the first reading of the (iii) the ruling also showed that there is a Marriage Amendment Bill 2004 being called lack of legislation relating to conditions on: of administrative detention that must be met for that detention to remain lawful; That so much of the standing orders be sus- and pended as would prevent Senator Greig moving a motion to provide that the Marriage Amendment (b) calls on the Australian Government, as a Bill 2004 not be further considered until the Sen- matter of urgency, to: ate has finally considered the Sexuality and Gen- (i) enact legislation to prevent the situa- der Identity Discrimination Bill 2003. tion whereby people who have been Senator Greig to move, contingent on the charged with no crime are faced with the possibility of lifetime detention, Marriage Amendment Bill 2004 being read a second time: (ii) enact legislation to resolve the issue whereby there are no legal provisions That so much of the standing orders be sus- regarding the conditions which admin- pended as would prevent Senator Greig moving a istrative detention must meet in order motion to provide that the Marriage Amendment to remain lawful, Bill 2004 not be further considered until the Sen- ate has finally considered the Sexuality Anti- (iii) resolve the issues surrounding stateless Vilification Bill 2003. people currently in immigration deten- tion in Australia, by the granting of vi- Senator Greig to move, contingent on the sas while the Government is unable to order of the day for the further consideration deport those people, and of the Marriage Amendment Bill 2004 being (iv) investigate the implications of the High called on: Court’s interpretation of the Australian That so much of the standing orders be sus- Constitution that allows for lifetime pended as would prevent Senator Greig moving a administrative detention, with a view to motion to provide that further consideration of the enacting a Bill of Rights in order to Marriage Amendment Bill 2004 be postponed protect people within the jurisdiction of until the Legal and Constitutional Legislation Australia from such an abuse of basic Committee has presented its report on the provi- human rights. sions of the Marriage Legislation Amendment Senator Ian Campbell to move on the Bill 2004. next day of sitting: Senator Bartlett to move two sitting days That the following bill be introduced: A Bill after today: for an Act to provide certainty about the validity
CHAMBER 26012 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 of certain plans of management under the Fisher- The Telecommunications Offences Bill No. 2 ies Management Act 1991, and for related pur- contains a number of very important measures poses. Fisheries (Validation of Plans of Man- dealing with use of the Internet to facilitate or agement) Bill 2004. exploit the sexual abuse of children. These meas- Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western ures include new offences covering use of the Australia—Manager of Government Busi- Internet to access, transmit and make available child pornography, and use of the Internet to ness in the Senate) (3.36 p.m.)—I give notice “groom” or procure children with the intention of that, on the next day of sitting, I shall move: engaging in sexual activity with them. That the provisions of paragraphs (5), (6) and The Telecommunications Offences Bill No. 2 also (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the Crimes contains a range of other new measures of par- Legislation Amendment (Telecommunications ticular relevance to events of recent years. These Offences and Other Measures) Bill (No. 2) 2004, include strong new offences dealing with: allowing it to be considered during this period of sittings. - threats and hoaxes made over the tele- phone or by email I also table a statement of reasons justifying - contamination of goods, and the need for this bill to be considered during these sittings and seek leave to have the - dishonestly obtaining or dealing in per- sonal financial information (these of- statement incorporated in Hansard. fences cover credit card skimming and Leave granted. “phishing” for bank details over the The statement read as follows— Internet). Purpose of the Bill Given the important issues dealt with by the Tele- communications Offences Bill No. 2, the Austra- The bill introduces new and updated telecommu- lian community would benefit greatly from it nications offences in the Criminal Code to replace being considered and passed by the Senate as existing outdated offences in the Crimes Act soon as possible. 1914, including Internet child pornography of- fences and Internet “grooming” and procuring (Circulated by authority of the Minister for Jus- offences. The bill will also insert new contamina- tice and Customs) tion of goods offences and new personal financial Postponement information offences into the Criminal Code and Items of business were postponed as fol- includes a number of other measures, clarifying lows: aspects of the Criminal Code, Customs Act 1901, Cybercrime Act 2001, Mutual Assistance in General business notice of motion no. 960 Criminal Matters Act 1987 and Crimes (Aviation) standing in the names of Senators Ridge- Act 1991. way and Stott Despoja for today, relating to human rights in Thailand, postponed till Reasons for Urgency 11 August 2004. The content of the Crimes Legislation Amend- ment (Telecommunications Offences and Other CIGARETTE VENDING MACHINES Measures) Bill 2004, introduced in the Senate on Senator ALLISON (Victoria) (3.37 24 June 2004, was re-introduced in the House of p.m.)—by leave—I move the motion as Representatives on 4 August 2004 in two separate amended: bills: the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Tele- That the Senate— communications Offences and Other Measures) Bill (No. 2) (the Telecommunications Offences (a) congratulates the Australian Capital Terri- Bill No. 2) and the Criminal Code Amendment tory member of the Legislative Assembly, (Suicide Related Material Offences) Bill. Roslyn Dundas, on the successful third reading of her private member’s bill,
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26013
which introduces a ban on cigarette vend- (b) considers that this device undermines the ing machines; authority of parliament; and (b) notes that: (c) calls on the Government to: (i) smoking cigarettes continues to be the (i) hold COAG and ministerial council largest single preventable cause of ill- meetings in open session, and ness and death in Australia, killing ap- (ii) submit binding agreements of COAG proximately 19 000 Australians a year, and ministerial councils to parliament (ii) costs to the Australian public due to for ratification before implementation. death and illness related to smoking are Question put. estimated by the National Drug Strat- egy to be more than $21 billion a year, The Senate divided. [3.43 p.m.] (iii) ready access to cigarettes is a predictor (The Deputy President—Senator J.J. of the uptake of smoking, Hogg) (iv) the sale of cigarettes is restricted to Ayes………… 10 persons over 18 years of age in all Aus- Noes………… 43 tralian states and territories by law, and Majority……… 33 (v) vending machines are an easily acces- sible, anonymous and poorly super- AYES vised source of cigarettes for young Allison, L.F. * Bartlett, A.J.J. people who may be contemplating Brown, B.J. Greig, B. smoking or who are just beginning to Harradine, B. Harris, L. smoke; and Murray, A.J.M. Nettle, K. (c) calls on the Federal Government and the Ridgeway, A.D. Stott Despoja, N. governments of all other states and territo- NOES ries to follow the lead of the Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly Barnett, G. Bishop, T.M. and Tasmania and introduce a total ban on Brandis, G.H. Buckland, G. cigarette vending machines, as recom- Campbell, G. Campbell, I.G. mended in the National Tobacco Strategy Carr, K.J. Chapman, H.G.P. and endorsed by all states and territories Colbeck, R. Collins, J.M.A. Crossin, P.M. Denman, K.J. and the Commonwealth, on the grounds Eggleston, A. Ferguson, A.B. that cigarette vending machines provide a Ferris, J.M. * Fifield, M.P. ready supply of cigarettes to minors. Forshaw, M.G. Heffernan, W. Question agreed to. Hogg, J.J. Humphries, G. COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIAN Hutchins, S.P. Johnston, D. Kirk, L. Knowles, S.C. GOVERNMENTS Ludwig, J.W. Lundy, K.A. Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (3.38 Macdonald, J.A.L. Mackay, S.M. p.m.)—I move: Marshall, G. McGauran, J.J.J. McLucas, J.E. Moore, C. That the Senate— O’Brien, K.W.K. Patterson, K.C. (a) notes that the Council of Australian Gov- Payne, M.A. Santoro, S. ernments (COAG) and its ministerial Scullion, N.G. Stephens, U. councils are increasingly being used as Tchen, T. Troeth, J.M. decision-making forums, reaching binding Watson, J.O.W. Webber, R. formal agreements which bypass effective Wong, P. parliamentary and public scrutiny; * denotes teller Question negatived.
CHAMBER 26014 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
PARLIAMENT: THREE-YEAR TERMS ENVIRONMENT: GREAT BARRIER Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (3.46 REEF p.m.)—I move: Senator McLUCAS (Queensland) (3.50 That the Senate calls on the Government to p.m.)—by leave—I move the motion as legislate for fixed 3-year parliamentary terms to amended: commence after the next federal election. That there be laid on the table by the Minister Question put. for the Environment and Heritage, no later than 3 pm on 11 August 2004, the following The Senate divided. [3.48 p.m.] documents: (The Deputy President—Senator J.J. (a) all correspondence and other communica- Hogg) tions including maps relating to Repulse Ayes………… 9 Bay or the Representative Areas Program Noes………… 44 between the Member for Dawson, Ms De- Anne Kelly, or her office, and the Great Majority……… 35 Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority (GBRMPA) during the period 1 January to AYES 5 August 2004; Allison, L.F. * Bartlett, A.J.J. (b) all correspondence and other communica- Brown, B.J. Greig, B. tions including maps relating to Repulse Harris, L. Murray, A.J.M. Bay, GBRMPA or the Representative Ar- Nettle, K. Ridgeway, A.D. eas Program between the Member for Stott Despoja, N. Dawson, Ms De-Anne Kelly, or her office, NOES and the Minister for the Environment and Barnett, G. Bishop, T.M. Heritage or the Minister’s office during Brandis, G.H. Buckland, G. the period 1 January to 5 August 2004; Campbell, G. Campbell, I.G. and Carr, K.J. Chapman, H.G.P. (c) all correspondence and other communica- Colbeck, R. Collins, J.M.A. tions including maps relating to GBRMPA Crossin, P.M. Denman, K.J. or the Representative Areas Program be- Eggleston, A. Ferguson, A.B. tween the Member for Dawson, Ms De- Ferris, J.M. * Fifield, M.P. Anne Kelly, or her office, and the De- Forshaw, M.G. Harradine, B. partment of the Environment and Heritage Heffernan, W. Hogg, J.J. Humphries, G. Hutchins, S.P. during the period 1 January to 5 August Johnston, D. Kirk, L. 2004. Knowles, S.C. Ludwig, J.W. Question agreed to. Lundy, K.A. Macdonald, J.A.L. AIRSERVICES AUSTRALIA Mackay, S.M. Marshall, G. McGauran, J.J.J. McLucas, J.E. Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) Moore, C. O’Brien, K.W.K. (3.51 p.m.)—by leave—I, and also on behalf Patterson, K.C. Payne, M.A. of Senator Carr, move the motion as Santoro, S. Scullion, N.G. amended: Stephens, U. Tchen, T. Troeth, J.M. Watson, J.O.W. That the Senate— Webber, R. Wong, P. (a) notes the recent Government decision to * denotes teller award an $18 million Airservices Australia Question negatived. contract for the manufacture and supply of airport emergency vehicles to an Austrian
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26015
firm, Rosenbauer, in preference to a DELEGATION REPORTS Hunter Valley company, the Varley Group; President’s Visits to the United Kingdom (b) condemns this decision for: and the Republic of Ireland and the (i) failing to promote regional industrial People’s Republic of China development, and The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—I present (ii) missing an opportunity to create 60 the following reports by the President of his direct jobs and up to 180 indirect jobs visits to the United Kingdom and the Repub- in the Hunter region, including 10 to 15 lic of Ireland, which took place during April apprenticeships; and May 2003, and to the People’s Republic (c) notes the severe weakness in the Govern- of China, which took place in June 2004. ment’s procurement guidelines which means that it is not mandatory for the fol- COMMITTEES lowing to be considered: Environment, Communications, (i) the development of long-term, interna- Information Technology and the Arts tionally competitive industry in Austra- References Committee lia, Report (ii) enhancement of Australia’s export po- Senator BARTLETT (Queensland— tential and import replacement, and Leader of the Australian Democrats) (3.53 (iii) employment, training and skills devel- p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the opment, and initiatives in regional ar- eas; Environment, Communications, Information Technology and the Arts References Com- (d) congratulates the Hunter region workers mittee, Senator Cherry, I present a report on and companies for leading a campaign to overturn this Government decision; competition in broadband services, together with the Hansard record of proceedings and (e) condemns the Government for not arrang- ing for departmental officials to visit the documents presented to the committee. Varley Group to gain an appreciation of Ordered that the report be printed. the company, its capability and its prod- Senator BARTLETT—I seek leave to ucts; and move a motion in relation to the report. (f) calls on the Government to: Leave granted. (i) investigate the awarding of this con- tract and reconsider the decision to Senator BARTLETT—I move: award it to an overseas company. in or- That the Senate take note of the report. der to create economic growth and jobs Senator LUNDY (Australian Capital Ter- in the Hunter region, and ritory) (3.54 p.m.)—I would like to make (ii) develop and implement effective gov- some remarks about this report entitled ernment purchasing and manufacturing Competition in broadband services that has policies that promote Australian indus- just been tabled in the Senate. As Senator try development and jobs. Bartlett has said on behalf of Senator Cherry, Question agreed to. who chairs the Environment, Communica- tions, Information Technology and the Arts References Committee, this is the second report of this committee on related matters in two weeks. It is important to remind the Sen- ate that the committee’s report on the Austra-
CHAMBER 26016 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 lian telecommunications network was tabled This is an incredibly important recommenda- last week. In many respects this particular tion because it sets the vision. We have to report, Competition in broadband services, accept that Telstra’s copper network has been flows directly from many of the outcomes, neglected to the extent that it is no longer observations and indeed recommendations going to be able to be future proofed in the that were found in the ATN report. way this country needs—in the way small I would like to spend the next few mo- business needs, in the way people who are ments going through the recommendations of furthering their education need, in the way this report because it builds very specifically schools need, and in the way government on the findings of the Australian telecommu- services and government departments need. nications network report. In fact, when we This government has not delivered. What we established the terms of reference for this really need to come to terms with as a coun- committee, the Howard government tried to try is getting the vision right. We need an oppose them being referred to the ECITA appropriately rolled out fibre optic network committee. That was something of a surprise that has the capacity to provide the real but true to form. The Howard government is broadband that will be required in the future. reticent to really grasp the real challenges in One question this recommendation intro- telecommunications policy, one of which duces is: what will be the necessary incen- Labor and I have contended for a very long tives for investment in this infrastructure? time is the importance of having a broadband This is a very big policy question because infrastructure for Australia that is future what we know and what we have been able proof. to document through this report is that this The context of this report being tabled to- government have not got the mix right. We day is years and years of neglect and almost know that competition policy is failing. We a conspiracy between Telstra and the gov- know that regulatory policy in some respects ernment to help fatten up Telstra’s bottom is actually hindering investment and fairness line in anticipation of privatisation, at the in the market and, therefore, certainly the direct expense of improved services for Aus- quality of services for consumers. We know tralians. Whilst the Howard government is that the worst outcome is that this govern- very quick to claim some of the statistical ment could continue to put money in the changes in telecommunications services, pockets of Telstra so that they can continue what we know from the big picture is that we to hinder the roll-out of the necessary ser- have been sliding backwards. This report vices, like broadband, around the country, documents very specifically the areas in because that is exactly what has been hap- which Australia is suffering, the areas in pening. I turn to recommendation 2: which Australia is going backwards with The Committee recommends that the Govern- respect to broadband services. So let me turn ment’s accepted definitions of ADSL and broad- to recommendation 1, which says: band speeds reflect international best practice standards and should not be determined or overly The Government should set, in consultation with influenced by product definitions of speed offered industry, a ten-year national target for an optic by Telstra and other carriers ... fibre consumer access network roll-out and should invest the necessary regulatory and com- Those who get an ADSL service would know pliance powers with the Australian Communica- there is a choice of 256 or 512, or one mega- tions Authority to ensure that this target is met. byte or two megabytes—these are arbitrary levels set by Telstra. ADSL, we know, can
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26017 provide a far greater bandwidth service, so munications Sector on the feasibility of introduc- why don’t Telstra make that available? The ing a content access regime ... fact is that Telstra are trying to inhibit the This builds on the commitments, given as style of services because it suits their pricing part of the content-sharing deal by Telstra, model, it suits their service model and it suits which have not come to fruition. So there are Telstra to constrain the roll-out of broadband issues on the basis of content and infrastruc- in this country. Recommendation 3 says: ture, not least of which is Telstra’s use of The Committee recommends that the Productivity walled gardens to allow their Internet content Commission be tasked to undertake a full exami- to be favoured by their own Internet service nation of all the options for structural reform in provider customers and so forth. Recom- Australian telecommunications, including but not mendation 6 reflects on the issue of divesti- restricted to, the structural separation of Telstra. ture of the HFC network. The committee Structure has been a consistent theme right believes that it will be timely for the ACCC through both the Australian telecommunica- to revisit this recommendation in the context tions network inquiry and the broadband ser- of other developments. vices competition inquiry. There is no sur- Outside these issues of structural reform, prise in knowing that the one issue that the which I think are all part of the current de- Howard government has consistently pre- bate, the rest of the recommendations relate vented being analysed to any great degree is to some of the failings of competition policy structural reform. Couple that with the facts as they currently stand. Recommendation 7 that competition policy, by the ACCC’s own says: admission, is not working in these areas and The Government should review section that Telstra is too big to be regulated and it 151AKA(10) of the Trade Practices Act 1974 to means that structural reform needs to be con- determine whether, under some circumstances, it sidered in a careful and sensible way. I think may prevent the Australian Competition and Con- that the recommendation that the Productiv- sumer Commission from acting swiftly to address ity Commission be the body to finally con- anti-competitive conduct. Consideration should sider the broad issue of structural reform in be given to the necessity and the effectiveness of the telecommunications sector is timely and issuing consultation and competition notices in appropriate. addressing anti-competitive conduct ... Recommendations 4, 5 and 6 relate to That is a long way of saying that we need to structural issues as well. This committee rec- make sure that our competition laws are ac- ommends that Telstra be required to divest tually doing their job, that they are effective its shareholding in Foxtel. This is unequivo- and that if a competition notice is enforced it cal. The ACCC has said it, the National is having a desired effect. The committee Competition Council, I believe, has said it took some evidence—and we heard from the and certainly Labor has said it as well. This Chairman of the ACCC itself, Graeme Sam- is a big issue as far as Telstra’s persistent uel—that Telstra is too big to regulate. When involvement in and aspiration concerning the we have a situation where the ACCC has media are concerned. Very clearly, it needs to used its trump card in regulatory power, the be addressed. Recommendation 5 reads: competition notice, and yet it does not seem to be having the desired effect on changing The Government should direct the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to pro- the behaviour of Telstra, we know we have a vide further advice on its recommendations in its problem. report Emerging Market Structures in the Com-
CHAMBER 26018 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
Recommendation 8 is that the ACCC fur- tremely broad terms of reference. There were ther examine the anticompetitive effects of five terms of reference. The inquiry was sup- the current peering arrangements, and it cites posed to look at: cost disadvantages to smaller ISPs. Recom- ... the current and prospective levels of competi- mendation 9 relates to: tion in broadband services, ... the availability of access to, and cost of, back- ... any impediments to competition and to the haul services for carriers building or proposing to uptake of broadband technology; build new broadband infrastructure. ... the implications of communications technology These two recommendations relate to the convergence on competition ... access regime in telecommunications— ... the impact and relationship between ownership incredibly important issues. I turn to recom- of content and distribution of content on competi- mendation 10. The committee has identified tion; that Telstra’s current geospatial data sets, ... any opportunities to maximise the capacity and including exchange boundaries, exchange use of existing broadband infrastructure. coordination lists of the RIM polygon map- These are brave targets indeed. ping and distribution areas, are all critical for In the course of this inquiry 55 submis- genuine competition. The committee rec- sions were received and seven public hear- ommends that these data sets be made avail- ings were held in various parts of Australia, able on request, in a useable format, to the including country centres, during which 67 competition—to other carriers and ISPs. witnesses representing 43 entities—including Without that information Telstra will still individuals representing themselves— have a perpetual advantage in the market, an including the Department of Communica- advantage that this report has documented tions, Information Technology and the Arts very specifically. and the Australian Competition and Con- I conclude by saying that this inquiry has sumer Commission, attended to give evi- identified the structural impediments, the dence. This represented a significant com- regulatory impediments and the competition munity effort commensurate, perhaps, with policy impediments to a vibrant and dynamic the broad scope of the terms of reference. I level of investment in broadband in Austra- take this opportunity to thank and commend lia. Without that investment we are being all the witnesses who appeared before the specifically hindered. This report details a inquiry and who made written submissions. way forward whereby the government could Unfortunately for all the contributions made start to redeem themselves for the damage by these public-minded members of the that they have caused in their close relation- community, the majority Labor and Democ- ship with Telstra. (Time expired) rat members of the inquiry turned it into an Senator TCHEN (Victoria) (4.04 p.m.)— exercise of a solution in search of a problem. I also rise to speak on the report Competition This was the ninth Senate inquiry into in broadband services by the Senate Envi- telecommunications since 2000. The course ronment, Communications, Information of the inquiry ran almost in parallel with the Technology and the Arts References Com- inquiry into the Australian telecommunica- mittee. The government members of this tions network, the report of which was tabled committee dissent entirely from the report by last Thursday. That inquiry had a reference the Labor and Democrat members regarding given exactly one year and one day earlier this inquiry. This inquiry was given ex- than this one. I raise this comparison because
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26019 the preface to the report of this inquiry uty President, to the 10 recommendations of makes particular reference to the fact that, at which at least seven specifically argue that the time that the Senate referred the inquiry, Telstra should be reduced or restrained in this committee was engaged in a comprehen- one way or another. Of the other three rec- sive inquiry into the adequacy of the Austra- ommendations, recommendation 5 does not lian telecommunications network. It is said refer to Telstra directly but refers to a report to have found that the absence of competitive by the Australian Competition and Consumer broadband infrastructure is a key constraint Commission which again refers to Telstra. to the development of competition in broad- The first two recommendations refer to a band services especially in rural and regional national target for an optical fibre consumer areas, which was the conclusion found, al- access network roll-out and also require the legedly, in this inquiry. government’s accepted definitions of ADSL This inquiry follows that telecommunica- and broadband speeds to reflect international tions network inquiry. What was found in best practice standards. These two recom- that inquiry therefore must bear significantly mendations assume again that broadband on the deliberations of this inquiry. In this technology is in a state of standing still. Rec- context, I think it would be helpful to quote ommendation 1 assumes that optical fibre is the words of Senator Tierney, deputy chair of the only or best way that broadband can be both inquiries, at the tabling of the earlier provided. In fact, evidence received during report: the inquiry demonstrated one thing in par- It spun out to such a point that two years have ticular—the complexity of, and the fast- now passed and a lot of the information collected changing picture in, broadband technology. in the early stages is now irrelevant because of This is actually acknowledged in the major- the upgrade of the network by Telstra and the ity report in the conclusion, which says: introduction of new technology ... The Committee acknowledges that the issues are Can what was irrelevant and out of date for complex and that there is no single solution to the that earlier inquiry be relevant to this in- impediments to broadband competition identified quiry? It seems that senators who signed the in this report. majority report believe that is so. To them Yet these majority members then blithely go the mere fact that man has gone into space on to recommend that a particular technol- does not stop them from demanding that ogy be identified as something which must safety rails are placed around the edge of the be followed. world to stop seafarers, presumably union- I have already referred to what appears to ised ones, from going over the edge. be the innate hostility of the majority mem- From the government members’ point of bers of the committee to Telstra. While it is view, we believe that this inquiry is unneces- undeniable that Telstra’s performance has not sary, is based on false information and has been perfect, again from the evidence, from come to a conclusion which was well devel- the community’s point of view both the level oped beforehand. Throughout this inquiry of service and the cost of the service offered uneasiness merged into hostility about Tel- by Telstra to the consumer have improved stra’s dominant position in the market. It was significantly since 1996. There is no dispute a constant and pervasive presence. A quick about that. While it is also true that, as both scrutiny of the 10 recommendations of the the supplier of wholesale services to the majority report show up this measure of hos- other retailers and a direct provider of the tility. I draw your attention, Mr Acting Dep-
CHAMBER 26020 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 same retail services to the public, Telstra is the roll-out of broadband technology across in a position to exercise unfair and predatory Australia. The picture which emerges from advantage over its competitors and that per- this report is that of a work in progress, and haps some form of Chinese wall should exist inevitably it will be. I am sure we will hear between Telstra’s wholesale and retail busi- the same complaint that I heard from the nesses, there is no evidence to suggest that government last week, that the report is al- Telstra has behaved in such a predatory ready out of date. Because of the rapid manner. There have been accusations but changes in terms of the roll-out and the there is no proof that it has behaved in that changing nature of this market, I think the way and there is certainly no suggestion that government, in defending the status quo, is existing regulations have been powerless to failing to recognise that governments do prevent Telstra from behaving in a predatory have a role in trying to influence where pol- manner. icy goes, where access is, the pricing of that It is true that the ACCC has called for se- access and where the infrastructure is in- rious consideration to be given to Telstra’s vested in. divestiture of both its shares in Foxtel and The fundamental recommendation of this the HFC network, which form one of the committee is that we need to have a substan- recommendations. However, the government tial investment in the roll-out of a new fibre members of the committee note that the optic cable network across Australia. It is a ACCC has arrived at these views on the ba- recommendation similar to the one we made sis of concern about a perceived conflict of last week in respect of the customer access interest on the part of Telstra, which I have network and it is one which is equally impor- already mentioned, rather than on any actual tant, if not in fact more important, for the predatory behaviour by Telstra in competi- broadband network. If we are going to have a tion or on any firm knowledge of any real proper roll-out of real broadband—not pre- community benefits that would flow from tend broadband and not halfway broadband, such divestiture. One wonders if the ACCC which is what the ADSL technology is, but would have come up with a different call if it real broadband—then we need to ensure that were actually the ‘Australian Consumer and we have a proper fibre optic cable network to Competition Commission’. the home that can actually deliver that. That In summary, the other thing that was ob- should be a long-term objective of Australia. vious from this inquiry was that the govern- Other countries have done it. Korea has done ment has in place a regulatory process which it and Japan has done it, so why can’t Austra- will provide for the management of the fu- lia? In Korea and Japan there are certainly ture growth of the broadband market and the much faster upload and download speeds at introduction of broadband technology. costs much cheaper than anything that has been achieved in Australia. Yes, I accept Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (4.14 there are population density issues involved, p.m.)—I rise to speak on the report on com- but Canada have done it and they have popu- petition in broadband services by the Senate lation density issues similar to Australia’s, so Environment, Communications, Information why can’t we do it? This is the sort of ques- Technology and the Arts References Com- tion which the committee has been trying to mittee. This is a very important report be- grapple with and the government has failed cause it concerns a fundamental part of Aus- to address. tralia’s telecommunications infrastructure:
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26021
I noticed that even the government sena- sessment under competition policy principles tors’ report noted that the most recent figure of the benefits, one way or the other, of the suggests that Telstra has 750,000 broadband structural separation of Telstra. It is time that customers—five times as many broadband review occurred so that we do look at the customers as its nearest rival. Telstra has a costs and benefits and it is time that an ap- 68 eight per cent market share in broadband propriate body—presumably the Productivity and it is able to use its market dominance in Commission or some other body—did that other parts of the telecommunications market work. This committee has called on the gov- to actually ensure it develops a dominant ernment to initiate that process. It has called position in the broadband area. This has been on the government to initiate a review of the a matter which has been reported on regu- ownership of both Foxtel and the HFC cable larly by the Australian Competition and Con- network and also to look at the broader is- sumer Commission and by and large the sues in encouraging competition in this very government has ignored every single rec- important area. It has also called on the gov- ommendation of its competition watchdog. I ernment to look at the issue of peering, was listening to Senator Tchen’s comments which is a fundamental concern for many suggesting that the ACCC were really adopt- smaller ISPs on the basis that they are unable ing a conflict of interest or a theoretical ap- to compete adequately with Telstra, given proach. No, the ACCC were adopting a view current peering arrangements. We have also that they have been trying to regulate tele- called for changes in the backhaul operation communications since 1997 and they have and the costing of the backhaul cables—a come to the conclusion that there are funda- very important issue that adds costs and re- mental structural impediments to competi- duces competition in the roll-out of broad- tion in telecommunications and that those band across Australia. structural impediments are that Telstra, as the Over the last six months we have seen most vertically and horizontally integrated very significant changes in the pricing of telco in the world, is simply beyond the regu- broadband in Australia and a regulatory re- lator’s ability to effectively regulate. sponse from the ACCC. The concern of That is also dealt with fundamentally in many in the industry is that the approaches the recommendations of this committee re- which are being adopted at this stage are port. It calls on the government to actually about ensuring Telstra’s continuing market look at and do the extra work on the issues dominance in the broadband market as it raised by the ACCC. I saw comments by the emerges and as it grows. This is something Minister for Communications, Information which should worry Australia over the longer Technology and the Arts, Senator Coonan— term because the roll-out of broadband is the and I am pleased she is in the chamber for absolute backbone of the information econ- this debate—in the media this morning sug- omy. If we do not have a roll-out of broad- gesting that the ACCC needed to do work on band to business and consumers on fair terms the costs and benefits of the structural sepa- and with reasonable access, then we are go- ration of Telstra. It is not the ACCC’s role to ing to deny large chunks of our country ac- do that; it is the government’s job to do that. cess to the information economy. In particu- It is the Productivity Commission’s job to do lar, this committee heard evidence from that. It is time that the government did what many country towns and many communities the National Competition Council told this which have been denied access, even to committee it should do: have a proper as- ADSL, on the basis that there were not
CHAMBER 26022 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 enough people prepared to sign up to the area of policy, one on which I believe the demand register. We heard evidence that the government needs to provide more leader- demand register’s numbers have changed ship rather than be a spectator. This commit- from 15 to 20, up to 150 and 200 and down tee report, heartily endorsed by the Democ- to other figures at different times, depending rats, is very much about showing how a gov- on Telstra’s arguments at the time. This has ernment could provide leadership to ensure to be improved. The roll-out of broadband to that the backbone of the information econ- all communities in Australia, particularly omy stretches out to as many Australians as regional communities, should be a national economically feasible. I seek leave to con- priority—and the national broadband strat- tinue my remarks later. egy, which we talk about in this report, is not Leave granted; debate adjourned. going to get there. It is not going to deliver it Membership because it is too small, it is too lacking in imagination and it is simply failing to ad- The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT dress the fundamental core issue of invest- (Senator Lightfoot)—The President has ment in the infrastructure and the competi- received a letter from a party leader seeking tion issues that underpin access to that infra- variations to the membership of certain structure. This is what this report is about. It committees. is an important contribution to the debate, Senator COONAN (New South Wales— and I do commend it to the Senate. Minister for Communications, Information I also wish to thank the committee secre- Technology and the Arts) (4.23 p.m.)—by tariat for their assistance in putting together leave—I move: this report, which we have done in a fairly That Senator Colbeck be appointed as a par- short period of time. I wish to thank the ticipating member of the following committees: many people who gave submissions to the Community Affairs Legislation and Refer- committee, in particular the councils of Bal- ences Committees. larat and the Gold Coast, who hosted the Economics Legislation and References committee. They gave us an extraordinary Committees. insight into what regional communities can Employment, Workplace Relations and Edu- do in terms of the application and develop- cation Legislation and References Commit- ment of broadband. We also note that in both tees. areas there were impediments to taking that Environment, Communications, Information further, and we certainly need to look at Technology and the Arts Legislation and some of the planning and geospatial mapping References Committees. issues in terms of allowing Telstra’s competi- Finance and Public Administration Legisla- tors to know where the infrastructure is that tion and References Committees. they can hook into. I wish to thank the com- Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legisla- mittee members, particularly Senator Tchen tion and References Committees. and Senator Lundy, for their work on this Legal and Constitutional Legislation and committee report, which is a very important References Committees. report. I also thank Telstra and the govern- Question agreed to. ment authorities who appeared in front of the committee and gave us excellent access to the materials which were available to them. Broadband is a moving feast. It is a changing
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26023
CRIMES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT except that the suicide related material offences (TELECOMMUNICATIONS have been included in a separate Bill. OFFENCES AND OTHER MEASURES) This Bill continues the Australian Government’s BILL (NO. 2) 2004 proactive approach to updating criminal laws in First Reading light of rapid technological change. For example, the Government developed the Cybercrime Act Bill received from the House of Represen- 2001 to provide a solid platform of criminal of- tatives. fences to assist Australia meet the challenges Senator COONAN (New South Wales— posed by computer hackers and ‘denial of service’ Minister for Communications, Information attacks. Importantly, the cybercrime offences are cast in technologically-neutral terms. The same Technology and the Arts) (4.24 p.m.)—I approach is adopted in many of these new and move: updated telecommunications offences. That this bill may proceed without formalities The existing telecommunications offences in Part and be now read a first time. VIIB of the Crimes Act 1914 were enacted in Question agreed to. 1989. This Bill will repeal existing outdated tele- Bill read a first time. communications offences and insert a package of revised and new telecommunications offences Second Reading into the Criminal Code. Moving these offences Senator COONAN (New South Wales— from the Crimes Act to the Criminal Code contin- Minister for Communications, Information ues the process of relocating all serious Com- Technology and the Arts) (4.24 p.m.)—I monwealth offences into the Criminal Code. move: Among the offences included in the Bill are a range of important new measures dealing with That this bill be now read a second time. use of the Internet to facilitate or exploit the sex- I seek leave to have the second reading ual abuse of children. speech incorporated in Hansard. The Bill contains new offences dealing with use Leave granted. of the Internet to access, transmit and make avail- The speech read as follows— able child pornography and child abuse material, as well as the possession or production of such CRIMES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT material with intent to place it on the Internet. (TELECOMMUNICATIONS OFFENCES AND These offences complement existing offences OTHER MEASURES) BILL (No. 2) 2004 prohibiting the importation of such material into The past decade has seen the rapid expansion of Australia and will carry a maximum penalty of the internet into our work, our homes and every ten years imprisonment. aspect of our daily lives. Mobile telephones have Law enforcement agencies estimate that around likewise become a normal part of Australian life. 85 per cent of child pornography seized in Austra- In all areas of telecommunications, technology lia is distributed via the Internet. In September has become more advanced and more sophisti- last year, German police cracked a global child cated. pornography network involving over 26,000 The telecommunications environment has Internet users. By focusing on the Internet, these changed, and this Bill–the Crimes Legislation new federal offences target the very heart of the Amendment (Telecommunications Offences and abhorrent child pornography industry Other Measures) Bill (No. 2) 2004—will ensure The new offences will also prohibit the use of a that Commonwealth criminal offences remain telecommunications service, including by means effective in this changed environment. of the Internet, to procure or ‘groom’ a person This Bill replaces a Bill of a similar name which who is under 16 years of age, for the purpose of was introduced into the Senate on 24 June 2004 engaging in sexual activity with that person or so
CHAMBER 26024 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 that a third person can engage in sexual activity that is extended to cover Internet content that with that person. These offences carry penalties causes offence of 12-15 years imprisonment. • new offences dealing with use of a telecom- These new offences target adult offenders who munications service to make threats or exploit the anonymity of telecommunications hoaxes, and services (for example, a ‘chat room’ on the Inter- • new offences dealing with improper use of net) to win the trust of a child as a first step to- emergency service numbers, including triple wards the future sexual abuse of that child. This zero. abhorrent practice is known as ‘online grooming’. In addition to the telecommunications offences, The new ‘procurement’ offences will also target this Bill also introduces other significant offences, situations where an offender, having won a child’s targeting credit card skimming and the contami- trust, then uses a telecommunications service to nation of goods. orchestrate a meeting with the child so as to en- gage in sexual activity. The personal financial information offences in- troduced into the Criminal Code by this Bill are a These new offences would provide a firm legal key component of the Australian Government’s basis for proactive AFP policing of this disturbing national strategy to crack down on credit card practice. The underlying rationale for the new skimming and Internet banking fraud. Credit card offences is to allow law enforcement to intervene skimming is the process by which legitimate before a child is actually abused. A typical inves- credit and debit card data is illicitly captured or tigation may involve an AFP officer, or investiga- copied, frequently by means of an electronic tor at the Australian High Tech Crime Centre, skimming device. assuming the identity of a fictitious child, inter- acting with potential predatory adults over the These amendments will criminalise dishonestly Internet, and arresting a predatory adult before obtaining or dealing with personal financial in- they have an opportunity to sexually abuse a real formation without the consent of the person to child that they are also ‘grooming’. A Queensland whom the information relates. These amendments prosecution has been successful on this basis. will also criminalise possession or importation of a device with the intention that the device be used The Parliament can take an important leadership to commit a personal financial information of- role in this area. New federal offences will pro- fence. vide a springboard to a national approach to this issue. Internet banking fraud, including ‘phishing’— where online criminals use apparently legitimate Tough offences targeting sexual predators in this emails to trick people into divulging banking way aligns with the Government’s commitment to details—will also be covered by the Bill. Any a nationally consistent child sex offender registra- person who uses a deception to obtain another tion system, and the CrimTrac Agency’s work in person’s financial information will be guilty of an this area. offence. The telecommunications offences package also The proposed laws will ensure that Australians contains new and updated offences dealing with can feel more confident about electronic, tele- interference with telecommunications and use of phone and Internet banking, knowing that penal- telecommunications to engage in inappropriate ties of up to 5 years imprisonment apply to those behaviour. Among these measures are: who capture or misuse their confidential financial • new offences dealing with the ‘rebirthing’ of details. stolen mobile phones and the copying of Comprehensive new contamination of goods of- mobile phone SIM cards fences are also included in this Bill. These of- • an updated version of the existing offence fences—to be inserted into the Criminal Code— dealing with use of a telecommunications will apply to a person who contaminates goods service to menace, harass or cause offence intending to cause economic loss, public alarm or anxiety, and in some cases, harm to public health.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26025
These offences also extend to persons who Technology and the Arts) (4.25 p.m.)—I threaten to contaminate goods, or falsely claim to move: have contaminated goods. This recognises that the That this bill may proceed without formalities level of economic loss or public anxiety or alarm and be now read a first time. can be the same, regardless of whether the con- tamination is real, threatened or fictitious. It also Question agreed to. reflects that in each case, the offender’s intention Bill read a first time. is to cause economic loss, public alarm or anxiety. Second Reading The offences will overlap and complement exist- ing State and Territory offences. Importantly, the Senator COONAN (New South Wales— federal contamination offences will have some Minister for Communications, Information extraterritorial reach. For example, a threat to Technology and the Arts) (4.25 p.m.)—I contaminate Australian goods which is made from move: outside of Australia would be covered. That this bill be now read a second time. Finally, this Bill will also make a number of I seek leave to have the second reading amendments to a range of other criminal law and speech incorporated in Hansard. justice Acts. These include simplifying some pro- cedures under the Mutual Assistance in Criminal Leave granted. Laws Act 1987 and amending the Crimes (Avia- The speech read as follows— tion) Act 1991 to outlaw child prostitution on board Australian-registered aircraft outside Aus- INDIGENOUS EDUCATION (TARGETED tralia, ensuring that the application of Australia’s ASSISTANCE) AMENDMENT BILL 2004 criminal laws on board aircraft complies with the This Bill amends the Indigenous Education (Tar- Optional Protocol to the Convention of the Rights geted Assistance) Act 2000 (the Act) to maintain of the Child on the sale of children. It also in- and enhance the Australian Government’s effort cludes amending Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code, in improving education outcomes for Indigenous and amending the Customs Act 1901 to make Australians over the 2005 to 2008 funding quad- clear the elements of the serious drug offences in rennium. that Act. Accelerating Indigenous educational outcomes is I believe that this Bill represents a significant a key element in the Australian Government’s 10- advance in upgrading the criminal law to ensure it point national agenda for schooling. Closing the meets the challenges posed by new technology education divide between Indigenous and non- and the opportunities which it provides to crimi- Indigenous Australians remains one of this Gov- nals. ernment’s highest education priorities. The Na- Ordered that further consideration of this tional Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Edu- cation Policy, endorsed by all Australian govern- bill be adjourned to the first day of the next ments and reflected in the objects of the Act, period of sittings, in accordance with stand- guides programme initiatives across Australia in ing order 111. continuing efforts to achieve equity between In- INDIGENOUS EDUCATION digenous and non-Indigenous Australians. (TARGETED ASSISTANCE) The Australian Government’s approach is to redi- AMENDMENT BILL 2004 rect resources to programmes that have demon- strably improved outcomes, to provide greater First Reading weighting of resources towards Indigenous stu- Bill received from the House of Represen- dents of greatest disadvantage—those in remote tatives. areas, and to improve mainstream service provi- Senator COONAN (New South Wales— sion for Indigenous students. Minister for Communications, Information The Bill will enable agreements to be made with education providers and others over the 2005-
CHAMBER 26026 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
2008 programme years for the making of pay- its evaluation in 2003, will be reshaped by ments to advance the objects of the Act. It will strengthening the application of “what works”, provide funding appropriations to support pay- particularly around: the practices of teachers and ments under the Indigenous Education Strategic their support staff; preparing young people for Initiatives Programme (IESIP) and, importantly, formal schooling; and helping re-engage and re- for the first time, will also provide the funding tain more Indigenous students to Year 12 or its appropriations to support payments under the vocational education and training equivalent. Indigenous Education Direct Assistance Pro- A new flagship project will be the Scaffolding gramme (IEDA). Funding appropriations for approach to teaching literacy. This is a structured IEDA are currently via Appropriation Bill No. 1. approach to teaching that has proven to be espe- Bringing IEDA under the Act will provide cer- cially effective with Indigenous students in re- tainty of funding for this programme for a four mote areas. The Australian Government will part- year period, facilitate improved programme man- ner with education providers to embed the Scaf- agement, and align the programme with academic folding literacy approach into teaching practices. calendar years. This will provide ensure consis- A range of other new initiatives and ongoing ini- tency of accountability arrangements and their tiatives that have delivered genuine improve- scrutiny across the Australian Government’s In- ments will also be supported under IESIP. digenous education supplementary funding pro- Through this Bill the Government is significantly grammes. strengthening the financial and educational ac- The IEDA programme has been significantly re- countability arrangements under the Act. In par- shaped for 2005-2008 following a review of the ticular the Bill provides that, to be eligible to re- programme in 2003 which included consultations ceive funding, parties to agreements must make a across the country. The reshaped programme will commitment to the objects of the Act and a com- consist of two elements: better targeted tuition mitment to achieve the performance targets speci- assistance for Indigenous students through the fied in the agreements. A significant measure Indigenous Tutorial Assistance Scheme; and the introduced by the Bill, which addresses a concern introduction of a Whole of School Intervention of the Commonwealth Grants Commission about Strategy. The changes to IEDA will: ensure that the quality of data available for its Report on In- Indigenous students can access high quality tuto- digenous Funding 2001, is that funding recipients rial assistance at key stages of their education; may be required to report performance data for focus resources on initiatives that have demon- different geographical locations. If, on the evi- strably improved outcomes; more heavily weight dence of performance reports submitted, a fund- resources toward the most disadvantaged stu- ing recipient is underperforming, there will be dents—those in remote areas; and encourage edu- capacity for the Australian Government to direct cation providers and Indigenous communities to the party to take specified action, and to report on work together to accelerate outcomes for Indige- the action taken. nous students. Payments under the Act are to supplement, rather Payments of per-capita supplementary recurrent than substitute for, the other forms of funding assistance to education and training providers will available to advance the education of all Austra- continue under IESIP with only minor modifica- lian students, including Indigenous students. tions. There will also be funding available under Funding under the Act is therefore intended to IESIP to support existing and new national initia- accelerate closure of the education divide be- tives and significant projects, with an emphasis tween Indigenous and non-Indigenous Austra- on Indigenous students in remote areas. Initiatives lians. Consistent with this objective, the Austra- will be directed towards promoting systemic lian Government is implementing measures to changes and developing flexible whole-of- ensure that there is an appropriate level of fund- government approaches to education delivery. ing and effort dedicated to Indigenous students by The National Indigenous English Literacy and education providers from both own-source funds Numeracy Strategy will continue and, following
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26027 and from Australian Government mainstream Implementation Bill 2004 and amendment funding. (2) on sheet 4366 revised, moved by Senator The Bill includes a requirement that agreements Nettle. must include a condition that the other party re- Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) port on how it has advanced, and intends to ad- (4.26 p.m.)—I want to give the government vance, the objects of the Act from funds other than Australian Government mainstream and In- another opportunity to address an issue digenous-specific funds. Additionally, under au- which was not satisfactorily addressed last thority of the Learning Together Achievement night. It was about the requirement in this Through Choice and Opportunity Bill 2004, gov- legislation for an environmental assessment ernment and non-government school systems will of the impact of the legislation to be dealt be required to report annually to the Australian with and completed by the government be- Government on how mainstream school funding fore the committee which implements the provided by the Australian Government is being trade agreement can come into effect. Last spent on improving Indigenous student outcomes. night we had two conflicting comments from This will include a requirement to report on the goals for Indigenous education, progress in the government: a view expressed by the achieving those goals, barriers faced, strategies minister in the chamber at the time, Senator for overcoming those barriers, and initiatives Hill, that the government believed their obli- funded. gations had been fulfilled by the cursory en- These measures reflect the Australian Govern- vironmental analysis provided by the Centre ment’s commitment to accelerate progress in im- for International Economics and a different proving Indigenous education and training out- view expressed by government senators in comes. They represent a significant step to im- the Senate Select Committee on the Free prove mainstream service provision for Indige- Trade Agreement between Australia and the nous students, and to better focus Indigenous- United States of America that the govern- specific resources to the most disadvantaged In- ment will be carrying out an environmental digenous students. I commend the Bill to the Sen- assessment of the agreement in the context of ate. the overall analysis of the agreement. I want Debate (on motion by Senator Crossin) to give the government another opportunity adjourned. to say whether overnight they have achieved Ordered that the resumption of the debate more clarity on whether an environmental be made an order of the day for a later hour. assessment of the trade agreement would be US FREE TRADE AGREEMENT carried out as per the agreement. IMPLEMENTATION BILL 2004 Senator COONAN (New South Wales— US FREE TRADE AGREEMENT Minister for Communications, Information IMPLEMENTATION (CUSTOMS Technology and the Arts) (4.28 p.m.)—I TARIFF) BILL 2004 thank Senator Nettle for having outlined what she sees as a conflict in some informa- In Committee tion that has been talked about in this debate Consideration resumed. relating to the requirement of an environ- US FREE TRADE AGREEMENT mental assessment, as I understand it, and a IMPLEMENTATION BILL 2004 perceived conflict between the minister, The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN Senator Hill, and some views of the Senate (Senator Lightfoot)—The committee is committee. Senator Hill ought to be able to considering the US Free Trade Agreement provide clarity on that matter.
CHAMBER 26028 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
I do have some information that I can pro- expropriation, as corporations might see it, vide to the chamber that may deal with Sena- of their rights cemented under this agreement tor Nettle’s question relating to the govern- when they challenge the government of the ment’s plans in respect of an environmental day to get their slice of power, influence or impact analysis of the free trade agreement. money for government actions which previ- The government commissioned an analysis ously would have been part of the law of the of the environmental impact of the Australia- land. The minister will see that paragraph US free trade agreement as part of the eco- 4(b) states: nomic analysis of the FTA by the Centre for Except in rare circumstances, nondiscriminatory International Economics that Senator Nettle regulatory actions by a Party— referred to. On my advice, there is no legal that means a government— requirement for Australia to undertake such a that are designed and applied to achieve study before concluding a treaty such as the legitimate public welfare objectives, such as the FTA. protection of public health, safety, and the The review of the Centre for International environment, do not constitute indirect Economics confirmed the government’s as- expropriations. sessment that nothing in the environment What are the ‘rare circumstances’? chapter or other chapters of the free trade Senator COONAN (New South Wales— agreement would impact on the ability of the Minister for Communications, Information government to set our own environment Technology and the Arts) (4.33 p.m.)—The standards and laws. The CIE study also answer to Senator Brown’s question, as I looked at the economic impact of the FTA on understand the way in which it was framed, the environment, and the finding was that is that it would only be—as Senator Brown only a modest impact was likely. has pointed out—‘except in very rare cir- Australia will continue to regulate and to cumstances, the non-discriminatory regula- impose high standards as it needs to. Nothing tory actions by a party that are designed and in the free trade agreement stops us from applied to achieve public welfare objectives doing that. The parliamentary inquiries—that such as the protection of public health, safety is, the JSCOT inquiry and the Senate select and the environment do not constitute indi- committee—took evidence from the com- rect expropriations’. Whilst you can never munity, including from those with an interest rule out and, I suppose, exhaustively list in the environment, before coming to any what may constitute indirect expropriations, judgment about whether additional environ- what is being referred to here are matters mental assessment is appropriate. So, of such as the protection of public health, safety course, the government did consider that. and the environment. Clearly the text pro- That is the information available to me in vides that they do not constitute indirect ex- relation to the issues raised by Senator Net- propriations. If I have some additional advice tle. If there is anything that I can add that as to what other rare circumstances might would assist to meet that query, I will obvi- present themselves which need to be ad- ously get that information and provide it. vanced in this debate, I will obviously get Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (4.31 that advice. But the text seems pretty clear p.m.)—I take the acting minister to annex on its face that matters that are necessary to 11-B of the agreement, headlined ‘Expro- achieve legitimate public welfare objectives priation’. It deals with just that— would not constitute an indirect expropria- tion.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26029
Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (4.35 signed the treaty and who agreed to those p.m.)—I am going to be very accommodat- words, is: what are those rare circumstances ing here because I think it is quite unfair that that are the exceptions that allow the US Senator Coonan is in the position she is in. government on behalf of its corporations to Where Senator Hill has been taking charge cut across Australian law applying to Austra- of this debate, suddenly Senator Coonan is lians to claim compensation from the Austra- put in the terribly difficult position of having lian taxpayers? to answer questions on quite complex mat- Senator COONAN (New South Wales— ters that the Greens and the Democrats have Minister for Communications, Information been putting forward in the committee stages Technology and the Arts) (4.38 p.m.)— of this legislation. Nevertheless, that is the Senator Brown has raised an issue that re- job. I do not know what Senator Hill is doing lates to the expropriation section and in par- that has made this debate second to it. ticular paragraph 4(b) of the free trade I come back to my question which—as agreement text. As I said in response to an you would have noted, Chair—Senator earlier question—and, if there is anything Coonan did not answer. The question is that Senator Hill can add when he gets here, about paragraph 4(b) on page 1114 of the I am sure he will do so—my advice is that treaty itself. It is about the circumstances this really relates to providing a safeguard, a under which governments can expropriate— saver, except in rare circumstances, for situa- that is, take for the public good property or tions that may be difficult to envisage now rights that companies may have. To put it but which are thought appropriate to allow bluntly, what happens if an American com- compensation to be claimed. I am a former pany operating in Australia does not like a member of JSCOT and I can recall that quite law that is brought in that makes its operat- regularly in treaties not every circumstance ing expenses greater or that takes away a that might be in contemplation was spelt out right it believes it has? For example, water in great particularity and in great detail be- flowing down the Murray River: the gov- cause, as bitter experience tells you, the more ernment wants to get an environmental flow prescriptive you are the more likely it is that or put in a carbon tax, which was not there you are going to not have thought of a cir- when the company set up but the government cumstance that may well arise. So the lan- thinks it is good for the environment. guage is deliberately there, knowing that the This clause is saying that, where such ac- rare circumstances have not been exhaus- tions are non-discriminatory and the Austra- tively catalogued. ‘Rare’ I imagine, Senator lian government applies them to achieve en- Brown, does mean rare. For that reason it is vironmental or public health outcomes or difficult to give you a catalogue of every rare safety, they are not classed as expropriations circumstance that might have been in con- and the companies on the face of it—and templation. Senator Brown, that is my ad- there are all sorts of other things in this vice. If there is an explanation that elaborates agreement which cut right across this, but further on what I have said that can be pro- under this clause at least—cannot claim vided by Senator Hill, he will be here shortly compensation. Four words at the front, how- and will no doubt do so. ever, cut across that clause—‘except in rare Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (4.40 circumstances’, which is when they can p.m.)—I certainly do not want to be ex- claim compensation. What the committee hausted by a catalogue; all I want is an ex- needs to know from the government, who ample. Can the minister give an example of a
CHAMBER 26030 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 rare circumstance which pulls the rug from When you see that principle generally be- under this clause? ing upheld but prefaced here by the words Senator COONAN (New South Wales— ‘except in rare circumstances’ all the orange Minister for Communications, Information lights flash. So far the minister has not been Technology and the Arts) (4.41 p.m.)—I am able to give one example of what the rare further advised that there is no investor-state circumstances were in the minds of those dispute settlement mechanism in the agree- writing this treaty, let alone the catalogue ment of the kind that I think was alluded to that she feared might exhaust me. I ask again in Senator Brown’s earlier question. Any of the minister: what are the rare circum- concern by a United States company or cor- stances—give me one, two or three—that poration will need of course to be pursued were envisaged by the drafters of this clause through our jurisdiction, through the Austra- of this free trade agreement of your govern- lian courts, and Australian law would apply. ment? That is not changed by the agreement. That Senator COONAN (New South Wales— is our jurisdiction and the law that would Minister for Communications, Information apply in Australia is not being changed by Technology and the Arts) (4.44 p.m.)— the agreement or by the enabling bill that is Senator Brown, I am certainly not being ob- currently under consideration by the cham- tuse or attempting not to deal with the ques- ber. The agreement’s provisions of expro- tion, but the way in which these treaty priation, on my understanding, reflect Aus- clauses operate has this intent. It is impossi- tralia’s existing obligations under customary ble to rule out the possibility that in some international law and these arrangements are cases a non-discriminatory measure could consistent with existing Australian practice constitute expropriation. That is not to say in this area. It seems that this merely reflects that I am able to speculate here about what what is currently the customary approach that possibility might be. It is a saving clause taken in international law as it applies in that enables such a possibility to arise even if Australian courts. there is not one contemplated. Obviously, it Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (4.42 has to be looked at on a case by case basis. p.m.)—We are not getting far, and I am go- That is what the courts do now—and I can ing to keep going. I want an explanation of vouch for that from experience—and the why those four words ‘except in rare circum- agreement will not change that. So I am not stances’ are in this clause in this so-called able, nor do I think it appropriate that I try, to free trade agreement. I have been around conjure up some hypothetical situation. What long enough to know that you do not get es- I am telling the chamber in trying to be re- cape hatches like that without them being sponsive to your questions, Senator Brown, meant to be used. We want to know why the is that this is a fairly standard way in which escape hatch is built into this clause. What is to have a saving clause so that you do not wrong with saying that there are no regula- rule out the possibility that there may be tory actions by a party that are designed and cases, and we do not know what they might applied to look after the country that can be be, where a non-discriminatory measure considered expropriations? Why should Aus- could constitute expropriation. It is not tralia be subject to litigation and compensa- something that is unusual. Whilst it is diffi- tion for a law coming out of this parliament cult to drill down and give concrete exam- or for an action by the government under the ples, because we are looking at a possibility, law of this parliament? a hypothetical, it is not altered by the ap-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26031 proach that the court takes to these particular • an amendment to a State planning scheme matters now. Certainly the agreement will designed to protect sensitive coastal areas not change this. from development, which prohibits a U.S. property owner from developing a coastal Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (4.47 property p.m.)—This is extraordinary. We have an I know of one such very large coastal prop- agreement between the Howard government erty in Tasmania. Is that at risk of expropria- and the Bush administration, made with all tion? Would that be a rare circumstance? Or their firepower brought to bear on every is there some other avenue outside the clause phrase. We know that they worked for we are talking about whereby recompense months on getting every phrase agreed to. could flow to such an investor? The second We have an important clause in here, which example listed is: worries the Greens and many others I am sure, which says that in rare circumstances a • an Australian law that bans the importation party—and that means a government, and and use within Australia of certain harmful substances or goods, which affects a U.S. that means a corporation working on a gov- company engaged in the exporting of such ernment—can claim that laws made in Aus- substances or goods to Australia tralia that have public welfare objectives, We have talked about hazardous waste cross- such as the protection of health, safety and the environment, can constitute expropria- ing borders being a matter of litigation under tions. Action clause: sue; result clause: tax- the North American Free Trade Agreement. The third example is: payers pay compensation to the aggrieved corporation—otherwise you would not have • new emissions standards on power genera- that clause there. tors that significantly interfere with the prof- its of U.S. companies which own Australian The minister, with the help of all the ad- coal fire power generators visers who know the ins and outs of this We know that there are such companies that agreement, cannot give us one example of do own such Australian assets. Will new where this escape hatch—it is really a back emissions standards be potentially compen- door, not to escape by but through which satable at the expense of Australian taxpay- multinational corporations can get into the ers? Another example is: domain—can be levered open to make sure • that the interests of these corporations over- the declaration of new marine parks or other ride those of the Australian people and the measures that deny U.S. oil companies the right to drill for oil in sensitive marine areas Australian parliament of the day. I have here within their exploration lease … some very good notes from the Australian Conservation Foundation, which analyse this The companies are having a right expropri- agreement. The foundation says: ated, if you like, by the law. In Australia there would not be any trouble, because the The following are hypothetical examples that— Australian companies would have to put up while not giving rise to compensation under cur- rent Australian law—might require compensation with that, although, under the Constitution, if to be paid to U.S. investors under the AUSFTA … it were land, and this is not, they might have to be compensated. You very often find that I would like the government to consider five the government will make some arrangement examples listed and respond as to whether with them anyway. But what we are con- there is a risk that compensation could be cerned about here is a foreign company with paid under the circumstances. The first is: a right to drill for oil objecting to a marine
CHAMBER 26032 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 park being declared in Australian waters. The additional costs on a company would be very final example given by the Australian Con- unlikely to constitute expropriation. If you servation Foundation is: entirely shut down an activity and took away • new anti-tree-clearing or water conservation the ability of the business to continue to laws which significantly interfere with the function, that may well be something that profits of U.S. agricultural companies operat- might come within the purview of an excep- ing in Australia. tional circumstance. Whether or not these are rare circumstances, On the issue to do with state planning on I ask the minister: can she assure this com- coastal development, my advice is that that mittee that in none of those cases would would be very unlikely to constitute expro- there be the potential for an aggrieved US priation. Indeed, my advice is that all other corporation to go to one of the secret arbitra- examples given seem to come within the tion entities, some of which have not yet category of imposing considerable additional been set up, to find whether there is some costs on firms, but that is within normal po- way in which, in all the loose, undefined, lice powers of government and not expro- open for interpretation later clauses of the priation. It would be difficult to envisage a free trade agreement, compensation could be situation where they would give rise to com- sought from the Australian government? pensation. Senator COONAN (New South Wales— Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (4.56 Minister for Communications, Information p.m.)—‘Difficult to see a situation; if it Technology and the Arts) (4.53 p.m.)— closed the business down it might, but one Senator Brown, you have mentioned a num- assumes that, if it closed 80 per cent down, it ber of hypotheticals and asked me to give mightn’t’—the whole thing is a set of vaga- you some view as to whether or not I think ries. There is nothing specific. All of us on that would be a rare circumstance. While the the crossbench object to this free trade factual situations may be correct—you have agreement and every time we say, ‘What is in fact said that a couple exist—they are ob- the circumstance you’re envisaging where viously hypothetical. It is important to em- there will be a claim for compensation or a phasise that only some environmental meas- legal action against the Australian govern- ures may constitute a form of expropriation. ment?’ the minister retreats—or in this case, Most environmental and other regulations the minister’s deputy retreats—to the posi- are not forms of expropriation—I think that tion of saying, ‘It’ll be hypothetical; we is a fair comment. There would have to be a don’t know about it yet.’ So we come in here measure which, for example, effectively took and quote cases under the North American away the ability of a business to continue to Free Trade Agreement, which is a parallel function, which would perhaps be a rare cir- with this agreement—there are exceptions, cumstance. In the kinds of situations you but in the main it is a parallel—where there outlined—and I think I heard accurately each has been action against the Canadian, Mexi- of the five that you mentioned—it is de- can or US government—and it is early days scribed more as an imposition of additional yet, but some has been successful and over- costs on a company. That would be very ridden Canadian environmental law—and unlikely to constitute expropriation but, as I the government says, ‘We don’t know what said in an earlier answer, it certainly depends will happen in Australia.’ I say in return that on the case. Insofar as you can have views we know it is going to happen—US corpora- about hypotheticals, the simple imposition of tions overriding Australian laws—and it is
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26033 going to happen in a court of law beyond the trade agreement full of weasel words and reach of this parliament, under the ‘joint catch-outs, wide open to the enormous legal committee’, so-called, or one of its arbitra- power and persuasion of the multinational tion entities which this parliament does not corporations, closed to the average Austra- know about, cannot see, does not appoint, lian—as Dr Hewson has pointed out, they do will not get any feedback from, has no input not know what this is about, and those who into and has no hold over. What an extraor- do have every right to be fearful about it— dinary situation. What a derogation of the and outside the reach of this parliament. We rights and powers of this parliament and the are being asked to give up our powers even interests of the Australian people. to oversee the arbitration of all those weasel Just today, former Liberal Party leader words and unknowns in this so-called free John Hewson has criticised parliamentary trade agreement. debate about the Australian free trade agree- Now we come to a very simple matter. ment with the US. I am reading from a report There is a clause that says there will be rare which says: circumstances where companies will be able Dr Hewson has told a business breakfast in Perth to sue because they believe new environ- that he supports the agreement and believes it will mental laws, health laws or safety laws in be beneficial to Australia. Australia have taken away something that But he says many Australians are ill-informed was their right, but the government does not about it because there has not been enough debate care to tell us what those ‘rare circum- in Parliament. stances’ are. A parliament cannot function “The trouble with a lot of our politicians is they’ll when it is not given detail as important as fight to get a deal like this done, they’ll make it a that and the opposition sits mute. I saw some political issue, they’ll get it through the system, criticism from Senator Conroy the other day put their hand over their heart ... and say ‘I did a about the Greens having disagreed with this fantastic job’,” he said. agreement five months ago and now, after all “But somebody’s going to have to monitor it and the study, we are still disagreeing with it. The manage it over a very long period of time that’s Greens are always open to being informed probably going to outlive all of them as politi- and seeing the detail come out in a way we cians.” did not expect, but the process of this cham- Then listen to this. The article continues: ber debate has been one of obfuscation by Dr Hewson says many Australians may not be the government. Worse than that, the gov- aware their country will be giving up a lot of sov- ernment side comes from a position of igno- ereignty by signing the agreement. rance because it simply cannot explain what “You can go to media ownership, you can go to the free trade agreement and all these clauses foreign investment, you can go to intellectual mean. property, a host of areas and I don’t think people Do you know why the government cannot in Australia have had it explained to them what that can mean,” he said. explain them? The reason is that they are deliberately not meant to be explainable. Dr Hewson is spot-on. He knows how this This free trade agreement is deliberately place works and does not work, and it is not concocted so that it is not tied down, it is not working today. This chamber is not working, defined and it is not clear. It does not say and I will tell you why: it is because the gov- what the impact will be in taking away the ernment has not brought the free trade rights of Australians, as Dr Hewson pointed agreement before the chamber. It is a free out. The free trade agreement takes away the
CHAMBER 26034 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 sovereignty of this parliament. It is the sov- 21, at some time in the future, with people on ereignty of this parliament and the rights of it appointed by executives outside the reach the Australian people that are eroded by all of this parliament. the unknowns in the agreement. Does par- Who will have the power and influence liament get to sort out what those unknowns over those appointments and the delibera- are and to make them knowable, defined and tions of the committee and its dozen or more quantifiable in a responsible manner? No, subcommittees set up to look at quarantine, because the opposition, the Labor Party, has manufacturing, the environment and what- agreed to this Howard deal with the Bush ever else? The big corporations, of course, administration with all its unknowables. because they reach into executive govern- Senator O’Brien—We’ve had a select ment in a way they cannot quite reach into committee for five months. the parliaments. It is a rotten process. If it Senator BROWN—Senator O’Brien said were defined and we could debate it, we there has been a select committee for five could stand in a position where we might months, so Senator O’Brien is now the ex- lose on that but, when there is nothing to pert. The minister failed to answer, Madam debate because there is nothing definite Temporary Chairman McLucas, so I ask here—it is all left to be decided outside this Senator O’Brien for the Labor Party, which parliament—then we have every right to get is agreeing to this free trade agreement: what frustrated and angry about it. are the circumstances in which Australian I ask the opposition, if it wants to answer: environmental, social and safety laws can be what is it that you see? What is the defined sued by American corporations for compen- arbitration process that you see? Who are the sation because they intrude on the rights of people on this joint committee who will arbi- those corporations? You give us the ‘rare trate the interests of this nation? What are circumstances’, as you are so studied up after their names? How will you appoint them if five months in committees and so on and as you get into government? What qualifica- you have signed up to this. What is the Labor tions will be required? They are not laid Party’s explanation for those get-out down in the treaty, let alone in the legislation clauses—rather, those break-in clauses—for before this parliament. What is your safe- the multinational corporations? guard for the people of Australia? What do What an extraordinary situation we are in, you have to say to Dr Hewson’s claim that with these two big parties selling out this sovereignty is being drained out of this par- nation. It is one thing to say you support an liament by a debate that is not informed? agreement but, when you cannot explain that Hand over heart, the Prime Minister said, agreement to the sovereign parliament of this ‘Oh, yes, this is good for Australia.’ I have nation, you lose the power and the right to my hand over the heart for a different appre- hold the position that this is good for Austra- ciation of Australia. This agreement devalues lia. ‘Good’, my foot! You do not even know forever and a day the right of the democratic what it stands for. You are leaving that to an system in this country to arbitrate on behalf arbitration commission that is outside the of, in the interests of and for the good of the laws of this country—outside the courts of Australia I know. As I said earlier, if it gets this country and beyond the reach of this so bad that you want to get out of this parliament—to be manufactured under some agreement, parliament cannot do anything so-called joint committee, defined in chapter about it. It is up to the executive—the un-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26035 elected executive, I might add; they are Australia in the future have their determina- elected as individuals but, as an executive, tions brought back to the parliament as disal- they are not elected at all by the people of lowable instruments—that is, the parliament this country. would have a say over whether they are good Here is the chamber—the one backstop or not good for this country. the people have—which should be having a I will be interested to see whether the La- full-on debate here to winkle out every hid- bor Party supports democracy at that level den clause and make sure it is understood, and whether there is faith in these faceless, but the opposition have gone missing. They secret courts set up by this free trade agree- have not just gone missing; they have ment—not part of the Australian courts, not crossed to the other side. There is no debate part of the Australian parliament and not part coming out of the Labor Party here at all. of the Australian people—to arbitrate on this They have to defend the Howard position, free trade agreement. If there are going to be and they hope that all the fire will go to the good results coming out of that and the La- minister opposite. There are a couple of bor Party believes in that then it will be sup- clauses coming up that the Labor Party have porting the Green amendments to make sure had a lot of publicity about, which they hope that the deliberation of those courts on the will convince the Australian people that they interpretation of this agreement come back have fixed it up. We know differently. We into this parliament as regulations or disal- know that that couple of clauses do not lowable instruments so that the parliament match up with the hundreds of fix-ups that can say yes or no and so that both houses were required if this legislation was to stand have a say. That is sensible, that is informa- up to the requirements of the Australian peo- tive, that is mature politics, that is democ- ple if they knew about them. But John racy—and that is the challenge to the Labor Hewson says that Australians are ill- Party in the coming hours as we debate this informed about this agreement because there legislation. has not been enough debate in parliament. Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) What happened in the House of Represen- (5.10 p.m.)—While we are talking at this tatives? The Labor Party simply threw up stage about a number of environmental con- their hands or voted for it. Talk about waiting cerns, I want to raise some concerns with the for a Senate committee! And now in this minister and see whether he could address chamber the Labor Party are sitting on their them. They come from the Whale and Dol- hands, because they have decided that they phin Conservation Society. It is a global or- want this deal done. ganisation that just last week expressed con- The Greens do have amendments. There cern at the inclusion of whales, dolphins and are some pretty strong amendments coming porpoises in the tariff schedule of the free up which would ensure that the Labor Party, trade agreement. According to its media re- were it to support them and were it to win lease it is alerting the public to the inclusion the election, would have the power to indeed of whales, dolphins, porpoises and dugongs fix up this agreement by re-empowering par- in the tariff schedule. It says: liament to be the overseer in the years ahead. The US not only allows some trade in whales and These amendments would make sure that dolphins at present, it also allows whales and these secret, faceless arbitration systems that dolphins to be imported for its commercial ma- will determine what is and is not good for rine theme parks which hold marine mammals in captivity for entertainment. With 46 species of
CHAMBER 26036 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 cetacean in Australian waters, and a trade agree- phins. Australia, at least in recent times, has ment in place, Australia may become a logical a proud record of conservation in relation to source for such trade in the future. whales and dolphins. I am told that article Whilst domestic legislation in Australia currently 22.1 has the consequence that we do not prohibits trade in whales and dolphins for com- have to trade in whales or dolphins. I think it mercial purposes, permits for taking and trading is an important issue. I am very proud of the on the grounds allowed, are left to the discretion efforts that Australia has taken under this of the Federal Environment Minister. WDCS ex- government to protect whales and to use all pressed concern that the FTA may become a driver for this loophole to be significantly wid- its influences to achieve better global out- ened. Certainly the US itself has been pressured comes in that regard. There is certainly noth- by the WTO in the past with respect of what ma- ing that this government intends to do that is rine mammal trade restrictions it does have. inconsistent with the steps that it has taken in Further, the US, traditionally a stridently anti- that regard. whaling, pro marine mammal conservation na- Senator HARRIS (Queensland) (5.14 tion—did a breathtaking about-face at the Interna- p.m.)—I rise to place on record that One Na- tional Whaling Commission meeting last month, tion also has concerns with article 11.7.1, by actively supporting the move for the resump- particularly in relation to paragraph 4(a)(i) of tion of commercial whaling. annex 11-B, which states: According to the media release, Michelle (i) the economic impact of the government action, Grady from the Whale and Dolphin Conser- although the fact that an action or series of vation Society says: actions by a Party has an adverse effect on the The move by the US to support commercial whal- economic value of an investment, standing alone, ing at the IWC meeting this year, casts a dark does not establish that an indirect expropriation cloud over its position on the protection of whales has occurred … in all respects. The inclusion of cetaceans in the I would be interested in getting a brief ex- Tariff Schedule of the FTA must be reassessed in planation from Senator Hill as to what he the light of this disturbing policy shift by the US in the last couple of weeks ... views as possibly being an economic impact as a result of the government’s action under She concludes: that section. If trade in cetaceans between the US and Austra- But before the minister responds to that, I lia is not intended, there should be no problem in taking whales, dolphins, porpoises and dugongs want to pick up on a couple of issues that off the Tariff Schedule, in order to comprehen- Senator Brown has raised, particularly in sively rule out this risk ... relation to jurisdiction and the rigour that the What does the minister have to say about the Australian people and the Australian parlia- concerns of the Whale and Dolphin Conser- ment will or will not have in some of these vation Society in relation to the listing of decisions that will be made by committees or whales, dolphins, porpoises and dugongs in assessing authorities set up under the free the tariff schedule of the free trade agree- trade agreement. I want to refer to the rec- ment? ommendations of One Nation to the Select Committee on the Free Trade Agreement Senator HILL (South Australia— between Australia and the United States of Minister for Defence) (5.13 p.m.)—I was not America. In the opening paragraph, under expecting this one, I have to say. Australia item 8, One Nation: does not trade in whales or dolphins; Austra- lia is not going to trade in whales or dol-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26037
... reaffirm the right of the Australian parliament before the government sets out to negotiate to regulate, legislate and protect exclusively Aus- on a treaty, it brings the basis of that treaty, tralian interests. its priorities, its objectives and comprehen- Going to the substantive recommendations, sive information about its economic, re- recommendation 23.4 states: gional, social, cultural and regulatory and One Nation recommends adoption of the Sen- environmental impacts into this place and the ate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Commit- House of Representatives for parliamentary tee recommendations, Voting on trade: The Gen- scrutiny. This is what should be happening. eral Agreement on Trade in Services and an Aus- On 5 August I issued a media release tralia-US Free Trade Agreement in relation to the headed: ‘Free Raid Agreement on pharma- process for parliamentary scrutiny and endorse- ment of proposed trade treaties: ceuticals’. I want to quote a section from that media release, because it goes to the heart of (a) Prior to making offers for further market lib- eralisation under any WTO Agreements, or com- what we are talking about here: mencing negotiations for bilateral or regional free “Australia can alter domestic legislation in regard trade agreements, the government shall table in to the PBS as much as we like, but disputes be- both Houses of parliament a document setting out tween Australia and the US over the PBS, or any its priorities and objectives, including compre- element of the Agreement, will be decided by a hensive information about the economic, re- dispute resolution panel, based on the text of the gional, social, cultural, regulatory and environ- Agreement, nothing to do with Australian law. mental impacts which are expected to arise. Minister Vaile’s letter of exchange on the PBS (b) These documents shall be referred to the Joint forms part of the Agreement.” Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence “The dispute panel set up under this Agreement is and Trade for examination by public hearing and like an invisible government. Its powerful new report to the parliament within 90 days. enforcement capacities allow it to make rules (c) Both Houses of parliament will then consider encroaching into areas traditionally considered the report of the Joint Standing Committee on the realm of domestic policy, shifting decisions Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, and vote on from democratically-elected domestic bodies to whether to endorse the government’s proposal or the FTA dispute panel.” not. “The dispute panel must base their report only on (d) Once parliament has endorsed the proposal, the relevant provisions of the Agreement and the negotiations may begin. submissions and arguments of the Parties.” (e) Once the negotiation process is complete, the “One Nation opposes this shift in decision- government shall then table in parliament a pack- making. We are committed to accountable, de- age including the proposed treaty together with mocratic government. Under this Agreement, any legislation required to implement the treaty there is an abysmal lack of basic protection for domestically. Australia in all areas, including the administration of the PBS.” (f) The treaty and the implementing legislation are then voted on as a package, in an up or down We are now discussing the US Free Trade vote, i.e., on the basis that the package is either Agreement Implementation Bill 2004. As I accepted or rejected in its entirety. said yesterday, it alters 10 pieces of legisla- That is the outcome of the Senate Foreign tion, but they are only enabling legislation. Affairs, Defence and Trade References The deal is done: the Prime Minister of this Committee’s recommendations. It cannot be country has signed the agreement, it has put any clearer that, following a complete passed through both houses of the US par- inquiry, those are the Senate’s recommenda- liamentary system and the President of the tions. Those recommendations are that, even US has signed off on it. What is important
CHAMBER 26038 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 and has to be understood is that, when an this is what it says in its text’? We cannot. issue is raised in relation to expropriations, We have to assume that this is an identical the decisions will not be based on anything document. We have to assume that, in the that we discuss, alter or amend in our domes- process of legally being scrubbed, there are tic law; they will be decided upon the text of no omissions. But one thing you can bet your the agreement. That is what the panel will life on: when the dispute panel sit down to look at. That is what they will make their sort out who is right and who is wrong or on decisions on relating to any disputes or ex- what they will base their ultimate decision, propriations. they will not be using an unidentified docu- That leads us to another interesting issue. I ment. They will be doing it from the original have here a document titled U.S.—Australia document that the Prime Minister of Austra- Free Trade Agreement: potential economy- lia and the President of the US signed. That wide and selected sectorial effects that was is the point that I want to make very clearly provided for the Senate select committee. It today. I ask Senator Hill, through you, is unusual in one sense: it carries and identi- Madam Temporary Chairman, whether he is fies the author very clearly—the United prepared to state in this chamber that the text States International Trade Commission. It of the document that I hold in my right hand carries their logo. But what we have here, is identical to the text of the document that interestingly, is a document that does not in the Prime Minister of Australia and the any way, shape or form indicate who the au- President of the United States signed. thor is. This could be a pile of blank A5 pa- Senator RIDGEWAY (New South Wales) per that I have picked up out of a ream and (5.28 p.m.)—I also want to contribute to this have printed anything that I like on it and debate on behalf of the Australian Democrats quoted from it. Who is the author of this and, in particular, refer to the Greens document? How do we in this chamber know amendment about essentially the protection that the very document that we are relying of public health, safety and the environment. on—either in support of or critically con- I think it is a very crucial amendment most demning—is the basis of the text that the of all because it seeks to make the free trade Prime Minister of Australia and the President agreement subordinate to public welfare ob- of the US signed off on? Do we have the jectives. That is a most important point to actual document? Are the words that are con- make, given that there has been very little tained within this document without an au- debate—even here in parliament and out in thor those that were signed off on? In all the community—about a proper understand- probability, I doubt it. ing of the impact of the free trade agreement, I remind the chamber that, when the certainly in the context of the two major par- committee started its deliberations, we did ties signing away the future in respect of the not even have this document. Why did we capacity of parliament to regulate in Austra- not have it? Because it was off being legally lia’s national interest, particularly when it scrubbed. So we have the ridiculous situation comes to social and community policy in this where all senators are basing their whole country. debate in this chamber on a document that I note the ministers’ responses earlier in does not even carry the author’s identifica- the day—and certainly that from Minister tion. How can we, in a responsible manner, Coonan—in respect of these same issues. I say to the Australian people, ‘We have read am quite surprised that they have been un- the document, and we can guarantee to you able to answer some of the questions that
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26039 seem to me to be pretty straightforward. If tine laws that people believe are actually people are across the details of the free trade trade barriers in disguise. agreement, there ought to be some answer I would ask why it is that the Australian given to the questions that have been asked government—certainly with the support of as part of this debate. the United States—needs this new body with Whilst we support the amendments, we the United States under the free trade agree- think that they should have gone even further ment. It seems to me that it is far more dan- and looked at proposing the introduction of gerous that the Australian public have been new sections into the Broadcasting Services misled on this particular question—there are Act, the National Health Act and the Quaran- so many trapdoors hidden in this free trade tine Act to ensure that the public interest was agreement that we effectively rule ourselves protected and, most of all, that no action out in terms of having any capacity to regu- could be taken in respect of these acts that late in the interest of health policy, other so- takes US interests into account. I think this is cial policy and certainly the way the com- at the heart of the issue that we are debating munity sector operates. I do not believe the on this particular question. I think Senator government has been fully truthful in dis- Brown is right in pointing out that we do not closing information about the impact this is get to debate the actual text of the free trade going to have on the capacity of parliament agreement—we are not dealing with that on to pass laws and deal with these issues if and this occasion, just with the enabling legisla- when they arise, because we know things tion. Some amendments have been put for- will go wrong; they will go off the track. ward by the opposition, I think in a very I think the Labor Party know that as well, flawed way, given that they had the hide to and have responded by saying that they will qualify the free trade agreement 42 times. It put in an amendment to deal with the Phar- seems to me that they are picking two of maceutical Benefits Scheme. But at the same these and leaving 40 unanswered. They were time they know this will be resolved not by probably 42 good arguments about why the looking at any legislation and where a dis- free trade agreement was flawed and why it pute may arise but from within the actual should not be supported. text of the free trade agreement. That will be The processes of review, the panels to be the overriding presumption in this case. They established and the mechanisms for dealing know that. I think the Australian people de- with disputes are important issues when you serve to know they are being sold out on this consider the way in which this trade agree- particular issue. ment has been put together as a preferential I want to go back to the issue of quaran- trade deal between Australia and the United tine standards. It seems to me that the WTO States. Minister Hill spoke earlier about the is already providing a legitimate forum to sanitary and phytosanitary disputes. I would deal with any particular issues that arise as a refer him and the government to the general result of a dispute or what was being used as practice under the WTO: there is already a a trade barrier. It is a forum that has been in committee that looks at these things on an ad existence for some time, and it is generally hoc basis, as and when those disputes arise. accepted that this is the preferred way to go There has never been any great problem with with multilateral arrangements. I think the that. It was always regarded far and wide as government need to answer this question. the best way of addressing problems that When they give a response to say that the people may have with, for example, quaran-
CHAMBER 26040 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
United States will not bring pressure to bear tions go through in dealing with this particu- in order to change circumstances in relation lar issue. to this preferential trade deal, I draw their The crucial matter here is that, with the attention to and I ask them to make comment support of the Labor Party, the government about the recent draft import risk assessment have compromised and allowed the United report done by Biosecurity Australia. States to have a role in determining Austra- The assessment looked at the question of lian policy. Even if we accept the govern- whether or not to allow Philippine bananas ment’s assertions that they will resist any into Australia, because of the question of undue pressure for policy to be changed, the disease. The assessment that was done at the fact is that through this free trade agreement time was widely circulated. We all thought we have allowed the voice of another nation Biosecurity Australia would come out with a to be heard on issues that should, I think, be report that would provide the right sort of determined by Australians alone, first and quarantine answers and, most of all, that foremost. there would be rigour applied through a sci- On the issue of the PBS, we have to ask entific approach to an assessment of how why we have gone down the path of creating trade might occur in that circumstance. Not an independent and separate review panel surprisingly, the Prime Minister went to the when we have a very adequate and able sys- Philippines and spoke to the Philippine gov- tem already in place to deal with those types ernment about this. He proposed to establish of issues. Through this free trade agreement between the Philippines and Australia a body we have put quarantine on the table, com- similar to the one established in the free promised multilateral processes and enabled trade agreement between Australia and the the United States—not just the government United States. Subsequent to that announce- but the large multinational pharmaceutical ment, Biosecurity Australia changed its im- companies—to have their way with the PBS. port risk assessment and proposed to allow The cracks are already there. I think the free banana imports into Australia. The precedent trade agreement can ably be described as a is already being set. piece of land with lots of cracks. The United The government makes grand claims that States are like the water flowing over it and our quarantine standards will be protected, eventually they are going to go into it. If that a scientific approach will occur and that anyone thinks for a moment that the prices of our institutions—groups like Biosecurity medicines are not going to go up, they are Australia—will not have pressure applied to kidding themselves. The sad thing is that we them by the larger and more powerful coun- will not be able to come back and fix it be- tries like the United States. But the precedent cause once this agreement is put in train that is here. The Prime Minister made sure that is how this is going to end up. the change occurred. I am not suggesting that Even with the provisions for dispute reso- he was involved in changing this report, but lutions, the evidence put before the Senate what I do say is that allowing the Philippine committee stated in general that trade tribu- government to export bananas to Australia nals operate in a more secretive way than has certainly set the precedent for how the any other in international law processes. The US free trade agreement might be viewed, evidence about these new, alternative dispute particularly in relation to quarantine and the mechanisms raises the question: how will not assessment processes that our own institu- just the Australian parliament but the Austra-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26041 lian public have an opportunity to gain con- goes to the government’s capacity to regulate fidence in the integrity of the process—that it in our interests, particularly in the provision is fair, that people are able to have input and of services, and the question of how it is that the outcome is one that is in Australia’s done, by looking at whether services are interest—given that the bigger player in this provided for profit or on a not-for-profit ba- case will have a far greater say? sis. Essentially, any services provided by In dealing with these issues it ought to be government in competition with commercial a very normal thing for the government and providers may be seen to be inconsistent— the opposition to support what is in Austra- and these issues are going to be resolved as lia’s national interest. Quite frankly, when time goes on. we look at the chapters on cross-border trade The point is that many things are on the in services, government procurement, trans- table that the government did not think ought parency and investment, we know that repre- to be removed. I want to mention some of sentatives of the wealthier sectors have been them because they have not featured in the involved in meetings with DFAT and have debate. We have spoken about the PBS and expressed their concerns in more than one Australian content, but how will we deal discussion. The response from DFAT is that with things such as child protection, youth community services are not really the target services and the job network in this country? in this free trade agreement; it is more con- These services seem to be moving down the cerned with financial, legal, professional and path of not necessarily being run by govern- commercial matters. ment but being more commercial in their The issue that needs to be raised is how operation. What about telephone counselling the government has dealt with concerns that services such as Lifeline? Why did the gov- have been expressed by the community sec- ernment not include a schedule as part of the tor. It is a very legitimate question to ask free trade agreement to exempt some of these why the government decided to agree with services and take a positive list approach the United States in taking a negative list rather than a negative one? Emergency fi- approach—that is, any area of policy dealt nancial aid, aged care, residential care and with by government in this country is on the nursing homes are all pretty much run on a table unless the government agrees with the commercial basis these days. The provision United States to exclude it. The reality is of community services will be directly im- that, as far as I am aware, there are no exclu- pacted upon by harmonisation and integra- sions whatsoever, despite the fact that in the tion with the United States. (Time expired) free trade agreement with Singapore we took Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (5.43 a different approach and excluded Australian p.m.)—I thank the two previous speakers for culture. But we were not brave enough to do their important contributions. I will certainly that in this instance, and we are leaving our make way for the minister if he wishes to Australian cultural institutions open to what respond to either of them. might come as a result of the size and nature Senator HILL (South Australia— of places like Hollywood. Minister for Defence) (5.44 p.m.)—Senator I point out that the costs to users of com- Harris wanted me to assure him that the munity services provided by community or- document that he was waving around was the ganisations and government will eventually real document and that it had not been doc- be borne by the Australian people. This issue tored in some way afterwards. I am not sure
CHAMBER 26042 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 which one he was waving around, but the read it but I do not think there is much point one that I think we all have was signed by in doing so. If there is a problem of interpre- Minister Vaile and US Trade Representative tation as far as Senator Harris is concerned, I Zoellick in Washington. Senator Harris’s am happy to have a go at it but perhaps it copy certainly looks like the one I have. That would be more useful to get some form of was the final text, and that is it. I do not think official interpretation for him or his constitu- there is any conspiracy in that regard. There ents who may be concerned. The important were earlier drafts and the final draft was thing is that I am told that it is consistent scrubbed, but the text that was signed I think with the existing domestic law. is the text that Senator Harris and I have. Senator Ridgeway is difficult to answer. I He was concerned about the expropriation gained the impression from listening to provisions. As I understand it, the domestic Senator Ridgeway—and I guess it reflects law of Australia is not changed in that regard the Democrats position—that they simply do and, as far as the international relationship is not believe in these agreements. They be- concerned, the agreement in effect restates lieve that, at every step when you make a what is customary international law. Article concession to another state in order to get the 11.7 ‘Expropriation and compensation’ advantage of a trade benefit, the concession states: is too great a risk to bear. To talk about I Neither Party may expropriate or nationalise a think it was Lifeline as being under threat— covered investment either directly or indirectly and I do not see Senator Ridgeway as an through measures equivalent to expropriation or alarmist—is an unhelpful contribution. nationalisation … except: This agreement is designed to expand (a) for a public purpose … trade opportunities by reducing barriers. But I think of particular importance to Sena- Each side agrees to do that and each side has tor Harris is clause (c), which says it must no-go zones and you see if you can deter- be: mine an outcome that, as I said, can facilitate on payment of prompt, adequate, and effective an economic growth in trade whilst preserv- compensation— ing what you believe is important—in our which is the domestic law. Then you get to, I instance in areas such as the environment, can see, the more complex issue of whether public health, the cultural sector, quarantine an action is expropriation or not in terms of a and others. We believe we have done that regulation that government might set for appropriately, and it has been subject to two some good purpose that can have an indirect parliamentary inquiries. I think it is reason- detrimental consequence on somebody’s in- able to assume that this debate is now on the vestment or business. Some of those issues basis of a well informed public. As I said, I are not straightforward. They have to be ex- do not think we will ever convince the De- amined in the detail of every individual case, mocrats, but it is the government’s view that but I think the important thing is that when we have been able to protect what is impor- we look to annex 11-B, to which I think tant whilst at the same time providing new Senator Harris was referring, I am told that opportunities for economic growth, which that is consistent with what is Australia’s was our objective. Our objective was always current domestic law. There is no secret a win-win outcome, and we believe this agenda in that. It of course deals with the agreement achieves that goal. Senator situation of indirect expropriation. I could Ridgeway raised quarantine, but I thought, with respect, the issues he raised were ones
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26043 that I had addressed both earlier today and ... the US, traditionally a stridently anti-whaling, last night, and there is not much point in re- pro marine mammal conservation nation–did a peating what I said. breathtaking about-face at the International Whal- ing Commission meeting last month, by actively Senator HARRIS (Queensland) (5.51 supporting the move for the resumption of com- p.m.)—I would like to thank Senator Hill for mercial whaling. his answer, particularly pertaining to the We have to call a spade a spade. This free document that I held in my right hand. I have trade agreement is forever. What on earth are spoken to each of the whips in the chamber whales, dolphins and porpoises doing on the and would seek leave to table the document tariff list if there is no intention to invoke a that I referred to. tariff? There may be some simple explana- Leave granted. tion. There may even be the phrase ‘rare cir- Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (5.51 cumstances’—of the variety that Senator p.m.)—Senator Harrison is making a good Coonan was totally unable to explain to us point. We have all sorts of legislation and earlier on—put into the free trade agreement important national documents put before the to allow corporations to get in the back door parliament. I do not remember seeing one and attack environmental and social law in without the imprimatur of the government of the country. There it is. Minister, why are Australia on it before. One has to wonder whales, dolphins, porpoises and even du- why it is missing from the free trade agree- gongs listed on the tariff schedule? Will the ment. government take them off in order to com- One of the problems in asking the minister prehensively rule out the risk of them being to go back to things like quarantine, which seen as a potential tradable item under this he was just referring to, is that we did not get agreement? any clear answers from him the first time Senator HILL (South Australia— around, so it is not really tempting to go back Minister for Defence) (5.55 p.m.)—Yes, I do and try again. But a while ago Senator Nettle respect Michelle Grady. I can understand asked the minister a pretty clear and straight why she might be concerned and that she question which relates to concerns from the would want to ensure that there is no ulterior Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society motive in this regard. I am told that the an- Australasia, expressed in a press release from swer is historical—that the World Customs Michelle Grady, who I think the minister Organisation determines the nomenclature knows and who I think he will agree is a for tariffs for all WHO members. It has had a very responsible person. She queries why the tariff line for whales and dolphins, so it ap- tariff schedule of the free trade agreement pears in our tariff schedule and the US lists whales, dolphins and porpoises. The schedule. I am told that it has always been minister says there is no way that we will there. Having said that, there is, of course, ever trade in those. Are koalas and Tasma- nothing in this agreement that obliges any nian devils listed on the tariff schedule? Do trade in whales or dolphins, and there is no you have a full inventory of Australia’s wild- intention to do so. life there? If not, why are the cetaceans on In relation to the current US policy on there? It is a pretty straight question. Ms whaling, I have to confess that I am a little O’Grady points, ominously, to the actions of out of touch, but I do know that there are the US—the Bush administration—quite some who have argued that a form of regu- recently and says in her press release: lated whaling might have to be conceded in
CHAMBER 26044 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 order for the international whaling organisa- there is no intention, it might be argued that tion to survive and that, without its surviv- it would be better to let the matter rest there. ing, whales would be under greater threat It is obviously difficult to change the head- now. I am not sure whether that was the ra- ings in a schedule that have been agreed on a tionale behind the US position. When I dealt global basis. This is a bilateral agreement. It with the US on whale conservation, I found might use the common language of the them quite good. I did not always agree with World Customs Organisation, but in terms of aspects of their policy, but on the big ques- these particular items there is no intention of tions in the International Whaling Commis- trading them. Neither side intends to trade sion I found them to be very good and very them with the other. To create a panic out of supportive of the pro-conservation position. that—I am not saying that Michelle is doing Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (5.57 it but I suspect Senator Brown might be p.m.)—The answer is ‘historical’ but it is not seeking to do it—is, I would respectfully in this agreement. What on earth does the suggest, mischievous. minister mean when he says that it is histori- Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (6.00 cal that there are whales, porpoises and du- p.m.)—I respectfully suggest that the minis- gongs listed here as a sort of remnant from ter is mischievous, Chair. some past age of slaughter and trade and The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN when he says, ‘Goodness me, we won’t be (Senator Lightfoot)—That is not the looking at trading in these creatures in the amendment we are debating now. future’? They are on the list. He mentioned Senator BROWN—No, that is the point I the WHO; maybe he meant the WTO. It is am making in the debate. inconceivable that Australians negotiating this agreement—this government, the How- The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN—You ard government—could leave whales and have made your point, Senator Brown. dolphins, and cetaceans generally, on the list. Senator BROWN—Yes, and I want to What Senator Nettle’s inquiry leads to and emphasise it. The point is that the minister what I am asking is this: will the government should give an assurance to this committee take them off the list, to remove doubt? If that whales, dolphins, porpoises and dugongs there is no doubt that they are not going to be will be removed from that tariff schedule. traded in the future, will the government re- The minister says, ‘The senator knows that move these from the tariff list to dispel the there’s no intention to trade in these in the doubt which otherwise the Whale and Dol- near future.’ I do not know anything of the phin Conservation Society has every right to sort. After all, this is a minister who author- entertain? ised trade in even bigger living entities in Senator HILL (South Australia— Australia, which are the great trees of Tas- Minister for Defence) (5.59 p.m.)—The mania, and it is occurring at the greatest rate point is that there is benefit in maintaining in history. He has no worry with that or with consistent language. I think that is why there the rare and endangered species that are poi- is common nomenclature. It does not mean soned in the process. that items under it are currently traded. Sena- The ruthlessness of that process under the tor Brown knows that Australia is not going Howard government leaves me and many to trade in these products. Yes, I meant to say others bewildered. But the argument in here WTO. With the government having assured by the minister is, ‘Oh, no, we would never those who are interested in the issue that resume such a trade under any pressure from
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26045 any corporation in the United States’—which to be taken if parties on either side thought does trade in them, by the way; it imports government was bringing in environmental such creatures for its aquariums. The minis- laws for spurious reasons.’ The implication ter says, ‘Oh, no, that won’t happen with from what the minister said there was that Australia.’ Well, Minister, why have you left action could be taken then and either the law it on the schedule? Why have the Australian could be stopped or some compensation negotiators left this on the schedule? Was it mechanism could come into play. The Aus- delinquent, culpable? I do not know. tralian environmental defenders organisation But we know that every phrase of the free say: trade agreement was gone over and over by Given the lack of detail— the Australian government. It shows that the in much of the agreement— Australian government does not give a cuss it remains a live question as to whether the Envi- about the non-monetary aspects of this ronment Chapter—and particularly, the agree- agreement. It is quite happy to leave this is- ment to negotiate a United States-Australia Joint sue on the statutes. It is quite happy to leave Statement on Environmental Cooperation— it there for people to worry about. I am provides adequate safeguards to protect the inter- lucky; I am in the parliament. I can argue ests of the environment. By way of contrast, Can- about these things. But people outside who ada, Mexico and the US created the Commission devote their time, their lives, to making the for Environmental Cooperation under a side world safer, in this case for whales and dol- agreement to NAFTA. The Commission promotes environmental cooperation among the three coun- phins, are having the rug pulled from under tries, and sets down the dispute settlement provi- them. They are being genuinely concerned sions that can be invoked if a country persistently by a government that did not care and left fails to enforce environmental laws that have what Senator Hill calls ‘an historic remnant’ conferred a trade benefit. Part of the mandate of on the statute book—because that was easy, the Commission is to help harmonize standards and why worry about it?’ Wrong. People upwards and to oversee the enforcement of exist- have got a right to worry about it. ing laws. It is also charged with, among other things, monitoring the environmental effects of I refer the minister again to the enforce- NAFTA. ability components of the agreement. We It is submitted that the establishment of such a were talking last night but did not quite get Commission with full and proper oversight and to this section. I refer to the Australian Net- monitoring powers would be a welcome addition work of Environmental Defenders Offices. to the Agreement. They say that many of the provisions in this Why wasn’t such an agreement established agreement are ‘aspirational’ and ‘platitudi- here? Was it considered? What was Austra- nous’. They give as an example from the lia’s point of view, and why didn’t it eventu- agreement: ate? ... each Party shall ensure that its laws provide for and encourage high levels of environmental pro- The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN—I tection and shall strive to continue to improve put the question that Senator Nettle’s their respective levels of environmental protec- amendment— tion, including through such environmental laws Senator BROWN—I asked a reasoned and policies. and fair question, which comes from envi- Consequent upon that, Chair, you will re- ronmental lawyers around the country, in member that the minister said, ‘Oh, well, relation to the commission looking after the there is, for example, the potential for action environment set up under the North Ameri-
CHAMBER 26046 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 can Free Trade Agreement. We are seeing all United States in not having that agreement sorts of groups set up under this Australia- with Australia, because the Australian gov- US free trade agreement. Why isn’t there a ernment was a much easier touch. We get the commission for environmental cooperation sort of arrangement that says there will be set up under a side agreement? ongoing cooperation and so on but we all Senator HILL (South Australia— know that that means very little. There is no Minister for Defence) (6.06 p.m.)—I am re- power in that at all. There is nothing to have luctant to rise again because I was hoping in hand. There is no process and no people. that after six or seven hours we might actu- There is no way in which the parliament can ally get to vote on an amendment. I think we adjudicate or have reach into such a provi- have had two votes so far. At this rate, the sion. It is just a failed process by the gov- Greens’ goal of the chamber never voting on ernment. this particular implementation bill might be We have had a long debate about many is- achieved. As I would like to see the bill sues here, and the environment has been passed, that is not in my best interests. A dif- woven through them. The environment has ferent approach was taken in this trade been dumped, as far as this agreement is agreement. I refer Senator Brown to article concerned, by this government. So little does 19.6 ‘Environmental Cooperation’, which it care about the environment, the govern- provides: ment cannot even abide by the requirement The Parties recognise the importance of in the US free trade agreement that there be strengthening capacity to protect the environment an environmental effects statement and that and to promote sustainable development in there be public comment on it. The Greens’ concert with strengthening bilateral trade and amendment would overcome the problems of investment relations ... The Parties agree to loss of sovereignty, which Dr John Hewson negotiate a United States-Australia Joint spoke about in Perth today. The Greens’ Statement on Environmental Cooperation under amendment, which Senator Nettle moved, which the Parties will explore ways to further would add after clause 3 of the enabling leg- support these ongoing activities. islation a free trade agreement subordinate I understand that that statement was clause headed ‘Free trade agreement subor- negotiated and was agreed to by the parties. dinate to public welfare objectives’. The It is a different way of approaching the issue clause states: but I think it demonstrates the good faith of For the purposes of the agreement: both parties wanting to see not only trade expansion but trade expansion that is (a) regulatory actions which are de- compatible with sound environmental signed for the purpose of, and ap- plied to achieve, legitimate public outcomes. welfare objectives, including the Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (6.08 protection of: p.m.)—The answer to the question is that no (i) public health; environmental committee was set up to over- (ii) public safety; see the implementation of the treaty over the (iii) the environment; coming years, as under the North American Free Trade Agreement. In the absence of any do not constitute indirect expropria- other information from the government, it tions for the purposes of the agree- ment; and must be presumed that the government did not consider it and that it caved in to the
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26047
(b) no compensation is payable as a (a) for a public purpose— consequence of any expropriation or I did not read the full list before but I will nationalisation arising under Article now, seeing that it is still being pursued at 11.7(1) of the agreement unless compensation would be payable un- this time by Senator Brown— der an Australian law other than this (b) in a non-discriminatory manner; Act to an Australian person or com- (c) on payment of prompt, adequate, and effective pany. compensation; and What that says—and the Labor Party have (d) in accordance with due process of law. that well before them—is that, when it In terms of expropriation that is what I comes to looking at public health, public would have thought Senator Brown would be safety and the environment, nothing in this requiring. In relation to this third amendment agreement will be allowed to take away from of Senator Brown’s that we are debating, as the very best practice in Australia as imple- we move into about our sixth hour of debate, mented in law. The only case in which there it is the view of the government that it does can be compensation when the Australian not provide additional support and that the government enacts legislation to protect pub- protection is already there for that provision lic health, public safety and the environment of indirect expropriation, including the defi- is where it would be compensation for an nitions that I referred to for Senator Harris. Australian company. That is a very simple, Therefore the amendment proposed by the logical, basic matter. Greens does not add value and, on that basis, But there is clear concern in the way this they have not convinced the government that act is construed. American corporations, enti- passage of their amendment is warranted. ties or individuals would be able to sue the Senator RIDGEWAY (New South Wales) taxpayers of Australia through an agreement (6.15 p.m.)—That is quite an extraordinary that is outside the parliament—so they can- response from the minister to a question on not have reach into it—for compensation for the inclusion of social policy in trade agree- US companies which believe they have been ments. I want to ask a very specific question inappropriately treated. Can the minister say of the minister about why both the Australian what is wrong with the Greens’ amendment? and the United States governments agreed to Can the minister give some reason that the completely exempt the area of Internet gam- government should not support the Greens’ bling from the free trade agreement. In par- amendment to ensure that public welfare ticular, I want to know whether that was objectives are not overridden or subject to done for social policy reasons or for reasons compensation for foreign companies? to do with the recognition of the limitations Senator HILL (South Australia— of trade tribunals when it comes to social Minister for Defence) (6.13 p.m.)—I repeat policy being dealt with in trade agreements. the point I made to Senator Harris: the ad- If they have already set that precedent, is it vice I have is that the provisions that exist in not also possible—and should it not have the agreement are consistent with existing been the case if an argument was being put customary international law. So a new liabil- forward about social policy and doing things ity, as being asserted by Senator Brown, in the interests of both Australians and flowing from this agreement is not created. Americans in this case—to put forward a Article 11.7 does provide expropriation, but range of other exemptions? Why is Internet it also provides that it must be: gambling completely separate and unique, as
CHAMBER 26048 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 opposed to other social policies such as the payers in Australia will be paying if there is a PBS? Why were these other policies not ex- claim on the basis of the free trade agree- empted from the free trade agreement? ment against Australian laws which foster Senator HILL (South Australia— health or safety or the environment and Minister for Defence) (6.17 p.m.)—I am told which are found to be in some way or other that Internet gambling is not unique in its unfair to the interests of the free trading con- reference. I draw the attention of the com- cept. I would have thought that if there were mittee to the reference to social services in no concerns about the Greens’ amendment the agreement under the heading ‘Cross- the government would support it, in the same border Trade in Services and Investment’, way that it said it would support the Labor where it says: amendments provided they did not infringe on the free trade agreement and that they Australia reserves the right to adopt or maintain any measure with respect to the provision of law added something, or were at least neutral. enforcement and correctional services, and the The opportunity is here to ask the Labor following services to the extent that they are so- Party whether it sees any problems with this cial services established or maintained for a pub- amendment by the Greens, which brings into lic purpose: income security or insurance, social law the guarantee that matters such as public security or insurance, social welfare, public edu- health, public safety and the environment cation, public training, health, and child care. will not be subject to compensation for That seems to me to be quite a broad reserva- America or for American companies. tion. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN—I Senator Harris—Could the minister as- put the question that the amendment moved sist by giving a page number when he is by Senator Nettle— quoting from the document? That would help Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (6.21 us to follow where he is in the document. p.m.)—I would like to note that there was no Senator HILL—It did not seem to me to response to that issue from either the gov- have a page number. ernment or the opposition. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN Senator HILL (South Australia— (Senator Lightfoot)—I understand the min- Minister for Defence) (6.21 p.m.)—If I con- ister to say that yes he will, providing he has stantly respond I am playing into Senator a number. Brown’s hands of wanting to string out this Senator HILL—Senator Harris, the num- debate forever. What he said is not quite true. ber at the bottom of the page is ‘Annex II- I said that we did not believe that his Australia-4’. amendment added value, but we believe there is also a negative to adopting it in that Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (6.19 it would weaken the protections on expro- p.m.)—I want to recap: the minister has said priation that are included, which I have said no, that this Greens’ amendment to protect are consistent with existing law and which the environment, social welfare and health we think are very important. Not only is and safety does not add anything to the there not a positive; we believe there is a agreement so we will not put it in. It does negative in adopting this particular amend- cover a multitude of avenues by which those ment. matters in Australia can either be under- mined in the agreement or be made compen- Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (6.22 satable. To put it round the other way: tax- p.m.)—That is not so. I want to mention the
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26049 stringing out business. I am not stringing this NOES out. This is one of the most important pieces Barnett, G. Bishop, T.M. of legislation you could have before a par- Boswell, R.L.D. Buckland, G. liament like ours. I believe it is an abomina- Calvert, P.H. Campbell, G. tion that every law in Australia, potentially, Carr, K.J. Chapman, H.G.P. is in some way or other interrelated with this Colbeck, R. Collins, J.M.A. Crossin, P.M. Eggleston, A. * trade agreement but it will go outside the Evans, C.V. Ferguson, A.B. parliament and we will not be able to get it Ferris, J.M. Fifield, M.P. back in the future. This is our one opportu- Forshaw, M.G. Heffernan, W. nity. The fact that Labor is agreeing with the Hill, R.M. Hogg, J.J. government on it means that it is left to the Hutchins, S.P. Knowles, S.C. crossbench to debate it. Every matter we Lightfoot, P.R. Ludwig, J.W. have brought up here is serious, has huge Lundy, K.A. Mackay, S.M. Marshall, G. Mason, B.J. long-term ramifications and is going unset- McGauran, J.J.J. McLucas, J.E. tled. Moore, C. O’Brien, K.W.K. We are about to have a division on this Patterson, K.C. Payne, M.A. Green amendment which gives some assur- Scullion, N.G. Sherry, N.J. Stephens, U. Tchen, T. ance that a whole range of concerns, yet to Troeth, J.M. Watson, J.O.W. be determined in a deliberately vaguely writ- Webber, R. Wong, P. ten agreement, will not infringe the rights of * denotes teller this parliament and the people of Australia in Question negatived. matters of public health, safety and the envi- ronment in the future, and zero is being said Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (6.33 by the Labor opposition. Yet there is no ade- p.m.)—I move: quate guarantee, because there is none to be (R4) Page 4, (after line 11), after Clause 3, add: given, about these matters coming from the 7 Parties may not submit to arbitration government. For the purposes of this agreement, Question put: consultations on investor-state dispute settlement, on any matter, may not in- That the amendment (Senator Nettle’s) be clude arbitration between an investor agreed to. and a party. The committee divided. [6.28 p.m.] The amendment nullifies article 11.16 of the (The Chairman—Senator J.J. Hogg) free trade agreement, which is a backdoor Ayes………… 12 mechanism to introduce an investor-state Noes………… 42 dispute resolution. The North American Free Trade Agreement allows companies—that is, Majority……… 30 investors—to take a party—that is, the coun- AYES try—to a dispute resolution process. The Allison, L.F. * Bartlett, A.J.J. dispute resolution panel is set up and oper- Brown, B.J. Cherry, J.C. ates under the terms of the free trade agree- Greig, B. Harradine, B. ment, not a court of law and not the parlia- Harris, L. Lees, M.H. ment. The panel can order the country to pay Murray, A.J.M. Nettle, K. compensation or to change the law or any Ridgeway, A.D. Stott Despoja, N. other remedy it chooses, and there is no ap- peal. The Australian free trade agreement
CHAMBER 26050 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 does not have an overt investor-state dispute The article, as currently worded, is ambiguous, resolution clause but article 11.16 opens the as is the whole agreement. It is not clear that the door to the same effect, and we had some agreement of both parties would be required in discussion about that earlier in the day. order to establish an investor state dispute settle- ment mechanism. The Greens’ amendment means that the The first thing to be said here is that in the parties can get together to talk out their dis- free trade agreement there is the ability for pute, but they do not go to a de facto court of an arbitration system to hear disputes, judge law not created under the laws of this coun- on matters and punish the Australian interest try, not available or appealable to the courts if it is found to be short of the mark on the of this country and outside the reach of this free trade agreement. One reading of this is parliament. The government will have some that it will require both governments to agree answer to that but, on the issue of investor- to such a dispute mechanism in the future. state dispute settlement mechanism in this What we can be sure of is that the parliament agreement, the Australian Conservation has no say. It is not up to this parliament; it is Foundation says: up to the executive once again. The parlia- At the present time, under Chapter 11, US com- ment gets left out. It is up to the executive in panies will not have the right to sue the Austra- the United States, because the congress has lian Government for alleged violations of the AUSFTA. This is because Chapter 11 omits the not passed enabling legislation; it has passed highly controversial “investor-state” dispute set- the free trade agreement, effectively. It has tlement mechanism included in other FTAs, such been signed by the President. as the North American Free Trade Agreement Yet in any sort of arbitration it is very (the NAFTA). Investors have used the NAFTA’s likely that American interests will be taking chapter 11 provisions to challenge US Canadian Australia to arbitration. Its economy is 20 and Mexican environmental laws and social poli- times the size of Australia’s, its population is cies, and to claim sums as high as a billion dollars in compensation. Within North America, this has 10 times bigger and so on. There is the pro- undermined public confidence in the desirability vision here for the executive of the Austra- of trade and investment liberalisation. lian government to enable the establishment However, the AUSFTA leaves the door open of an arbitration process in agreement with for an investor-state dispute mechanism to be the executive in the United States. The Aus- established in the future. Article 11.16 states. tralian Conservation Foundation’s lawyers “If a Party [U.S or Australian Governments] are saying that the article as currently considers that there has been a change in circum- worded is ambiguous enough to make it not stances affecting the settlement of disputes on clear that the agreement of both parties matters within the scope of this Chapter and that, would be required in order to establish an in light of such change, the Parties should con- investor-state dispute settlement mecha- sider allowing an investor of a Party to submit to nism—so the way is even open for unilateral arbitration with the other Party a claim regarding establishment of such an agreement. I would a matter within the scope of this Chapter, the like to hear the government’s argument about Party may request consultations with the other that latter point, but the government will Party on the subject, including the development of procedures that may be appropriate. Upon such have to admit that there is no dispute about a request, the Parties shall promptly enter into the former point—that is, future govern- consultations with a view towards allowing such ments outside the reach of this parliament a claim and establishing such procedures.” can agree to set up an arbitration system.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26051
Senator HILL (South Australia— in all those things and says, ‘You can be as- Minister for Defence) (6.39 p.m.)—I think sured that this government would never al- Senator Brown conceded that the agreement low an arbitration process that wasn’t in the does not include an investor-state dispute nation’s interests.’ I care to think that the settlement mechanism. I think he almost said corporate sector in the United States has a that he was pleased with that particular as- clout way beyond that of many Australian pect of the agreement. As he said, the agree- interests in this agreement. Just look at the ment does provide, under article 11.16, for farmers. Where is the free trade as far as ag- consultation between the parties—that is, ricultural produce in this country is con- between the states—in relation to an inves- cerned? It is sold down the drain. tor-state dispute. But, as I said this morning, Taxpayers are paying over $400 million to for there to be a process to flow from that make up for sugar being sold out. Beef has consultation, it would require the agreement been sold out—it is not going to be free trade of both parties—that is, both states. If both ever. After 20 years it is, if the American states agree that there is a way forward to market is doing okay. There are difficulties settle a dispute then I do not see what is with pork. Lamb might, one of these days, wrong with that. get there. There are restrictions on avocados, One can be sure that Australia, as one of citrus fruit and stone fruit. You cannot sell the state parties, will ensure that the weight that if it is in a competitive period with the that Senator Brown referred to in terms of American producers. In the manufacturing one economy being much larger than the section, we look at fast ferries from Tasma- other will not allow an unfair or unjust ap- nia or Western Australia—wherever they proach. That is the assurance that we have might be—and barriers stay total. It is an been able to give, and the provisions in the embargo, effectively. Insofar as this being a agreement enable us to give that assurance. free trade agreement, tell somebody else. On that basis, I cannot see the concern that Then the government which brokered such a Senator Brown is seeking to overcome. If it free trade agreement—which is not free, be- would require the agreement of Australia, I cause it is loaded so much against Austra- do not see his concern. The agreement of lia—says: ‘Trust us. Yes, sitting in here is a Australia would ensure that there is not an little time bomb called article 11.16, which imbalance, and I understood that an imbal- says if the governments get together they can ance is Senator Brown’s concern. On that allow arbitration on some matter that is wor- basis, I am not persuaded that we need to rying a American mega-corporation, but this further constrain this provision. It might even government would not depart from the Aus- be argued that restraint is actually inconsis- tralian interest.’ Tell somebody else; do not tent with the terms of the provision. Leaving tell me that. that aside, on the merits I do not see that a But, even if you did, Minister Hill has case has been made out that justifies a fur- been around for long enough to know that ther restraint. governments come in great varieties and you Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (6.42 cannot bind future governments. What he p.m.)—Our problem is that we live in the says here is not binding. The Greens’ age of children overboard, weapons of mass amendment is. The Greens’ amendment is to destruction and ‘Australia is a safer place an act of parliament, and a future govern- after the Iraq invasion’. Along comes a min- ment is not easily going to get that undone ister who was involved directly or indirectly through the Senate. The Greens’ amendment
CHAMBER 26052 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 says that there will not be arbitration in these situation that currently exists under NAFTA matters. We are not going to expose taxpay- where investors or corporations can sue for- ers or Australian interests to the full weight eign governments, as has been the case in of corporate America, with its enormous Mexico and Canada, and there may be a powers not just in law but of political per- change in circumstances affecting the settle- suasion. Whatever the future government is ment of disputes. An investor at the current going to be, I think this government would time, as I understand the article, can request be amply able to cave in to the influence that consultations with the other government to the United States can bring to bear—after all, make a complaint and the other government we went to war in Iraq because the Prime is then obliged to promptly enter into consul- Minister felt that that was a requirement for tations with a view towards allowing such a the best future outcome for the country, in- claim and establishing such procedures. cluding the agreement we are dealing with The interesting thing here is that even the now. explanation that has been offered by DFAT in So I do not accept the bland assurances its guide to the Australia-US free trade coming from the government. What I do ac- agreement provides little guidance as to the cept is that the Greens’ amendment takes the nature of the change in circumstances and matter beyond doubt. But we are again in what is required to trigger the operation of this situation where we know that arbitration the clause. There is certainly ambiguity when will be entered into; that is why article 11.16 you consider questions about the degree of is there. The Greens’ amendment says no, change that is required: whether such a that cannot happen; it is up to this parlia- change must affect governance structures or ment. Tonight we have the power to prevent simply one investor or whether it is neces- that happening, and the government says sary to show that such change has resulted in nothing—except ‘trust us’, effectively. I do harm to an investor. not. This amendment ought to be passed. If This seems to me to be a very important the opposition wants to protect Australia’s amendment. If I am correct in reading this interests from the full and unequal force of part of the free trade agreement—with very American pressure to get an investor-state little guidance from DFAT’s guide to the free dispute settlement going to arbitration, with trade agreement itself—there is all the possi- potentially billions of dollars in payouts in- bility that this provides an opportunity for volved, it should be supporting this amend- the United States to put their foot in the door. ment. There is all the opportunity for the investors Senator RIDGEWAY (New South Wales) to request consultations and, as a result, seek (6.47 p.m.)—I think the Greens’ amendment to change what the government thinks is cur- is really about seeking to ensure that there is rently there. It is not iron clad, and I think never ever an investor-state dispute resolu- the government does need to consider this tion mechanism under the agreement. The issue quite seriously. (Time expired) Australian Democrats will be supporting the Progress reported. amendment, but I think that the minister ADJOURNMENT probably needs to have a look at article 11.16.1, which provides a foot in the door for The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Order! such a process to be triggered. The govern- There being no consideration of government ment needs to give some assurance, quite documents, I propose the question: frankly, that we will not end up with the That the Senate do now adjourn.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26053
Nixon, Mr Richard Sure, Nixon was a heavyweight. At his Senator MASON (Queensland) (6.51 funeral his old friend Senator Bob Dole p.m.)—I want to speak briefly tonight on the prophesied that in the future the second half occasion of the 30th anniversary of the res- of the 20th century would be known as ‘the ignation of President Richard Nixon. I want age of Nixon’. He was speaking not just to say a few words about the good and the about Nixon’s own political accomplish- bad of Richard Nixon, and perhaps also a ments but of Nixon’s own dominating politi- word about what that means to us today as cal career. Nixon was elected to congress in both parliamentarians and citizens. Let me 1946, where he had a short but very promi- go back 30 years—not to Washington, or nent career. In 1950 he was elected to the even the United States, but to Canberra. I Senate in California in a very anticommunist must have been 10 or 11 years old and I went and strident campaign against Helen to visit my father who was a journalist with Gahagan Douglas. Within two years his work the United States Information Service at the in the Senate caught the attention of the party American Embassy. I walked across the elders and General Eisenhower and, at the black and white checkerboard foyer at the age of 39, he was elected Vice-President of American Embassy. I remember this vividly. the United States. He was a well respected I looked up and there was a picture of a smil- Vice-President, assuming greater responsi- ing Richard Nixon, smiling probably because bilities in that office than many—he certainly he had just had a landslide victory against did much work in foreign affairs—given that Senator George McGovern—one of the General Eisenhower suffered from ill health greatest landslide victories in United States and had suffered heart attacks and on occa- political history. You might have thought that sions could not assume full presidential du- would be a vindication of Nixon, but within ties. two years he had resigned in disgrace. It was only in 1960 after Nixon’s defeat This brings me to the paradox of Richard that his real test began. He was defeated by Nixon, who, perhaps with the exception of President Kennedy of course, by one of the Franklin Roosevelt—who played politics smallest margins in political history. Many with a deft hand and was a brilliant politi- thought his career was over. He said he could cian—remains one of the most fascinating not abide private life, he would be bored sick figures of American political history. He em- being a lawyer and he had to go back into bodies that paradox and the paradox is this: politics. In 1962 he sought to be governor of the great certainly are not always good and California. Of course he was defeated in hu- the good are not always great. While on the miliating fashion. This was the lowest point one hand he was a master at foreign policy, of his political career, except perhaps when and I think that is agreed by all, on the other he resigned in 1974. But just when everyone hand—and I can remember this as a kid—he wrote him off in 1962 he bounced back. The suffered from the most acute personal inse- Republican Party was thrashed in the 1964 curities, feelings of mistrust, bordering on presidential election by President Johnson. In paranoia. Towards the end he fell into 1968 he secured the Republican nomination drunken profanities, illegalities and in the for President—as a private citizen—beating, end he was crucified by his own hatred. among others, Governor Reagan of Califor- Richard Nixon was very much that paradox. nia. He did all those things—he moved about the country, he went overseas. He would pay any price, he said, to remain in the arena.
CHAMBER 26054 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
It was one of the most brilliant comebacks scholarship to Harvard, but he could not go in American political history, to come back because his parents did not have the fi- from six years in the wilderness as a private nances. But for the rest of his life he hated citizen to secure the presidency of the United the liberal establishment on the Eastern Sea- States—an accomplishment that may never board: the intellectuals, the journalists, the be repeated. Whatever else Nixon had, he liberal Republicans and others—the Ivy had bucketloads of tenacity. He never gave Leaguers. He said that they were out to get up. In his inaugural address to the American him. Of course they were in the end, but he people he drew on his Quaker heritage and ended up destroying himself. On his way to said, ‘The greatest honour history can bestow the helicopter after he had resigned, he said is the title of peacemaker.’ He ended the to the White House staff: Vietnam War, averted nuclear war in the Always give your best, never get discouraged, Middle East, opened the door to China and never be petty; always remember, others may hate reached detente with the Soviet Union. you, but those who hate you don’t win unless you He did, for a while, create a safer world. hate them, and then you destroy yourself. But all of those accomplishments have to be How very true. It is poignant that, at the seen in the context of or are now clouded by moment of his exit, he finally realised that his personal insecurities, banality, pet ha- hate had destroyed him. But he said one treds, his ‘enemy list’, the darkest of dark thing in his farewell address to the White moods and, finally, illegality and criminal House staff that I think rings true for all of activity. There can be no excuses for a Presi- us. It is a lesson for all of us. As parliamen- dent, whom we expect to uphold the law and tarians, particularly, you will understand this. a constitution but who breaks them. Even I remember him saying, as I watched on TV: worse perhaps is that his conduct led to di- … greatness comes not when things go always minished respect for the presidency and, good for you, but the greatness comes when you more broadly, suspicion of government. are really tested, when you take some knocks, some disappointments, when sadness comes, be- While I would like to say that the legacy cause only if you have been in the deepest valley of Watergate and Nixon is that the system can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on works, I sometimes wonder. Nixon was a the highest mountain. crook. He was caught—that was great—and It is such a paradox that in the case of Rich- the constitution was not subverted. But since ard Nixon he saw further and understood then many presidents, prime ministers and more when he was struggling in the valleys other potentates have thought the lesson of than he ever saw when he was striding the Watergate is: don’t get caught. It is a cynical summits. view about the real lessons of Watergate for our leaders, but I sometimes wonder. Australian Customs Service There is one aspect of Nixon that is not Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- often talked about that comes out clearly in tralia) (7.00 p.m.)—I rise tonight to outline his autobiography. I remember reading it several issues of concern in the Customs when I was about 17. It was the first major portfolio. I want to address the Howard gov- political biography that I read. People have ernment’s abysmal report card on managing to understand that Nixon was an outsider or the financial resources available to Customs he felt himself to be an outsider. He was a to fulfil its most important role. I will begin hardworking and brilliant student. He won a with an issue that has been well publicised in recent years. The import of freight via sea
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26055 containers has increased the necessity for the system will cause any significant delays tighter border security measures. Despite this to cargo movement. necessity, the Howard government continues In Australia, the Port of Melbourne Cor- to mislead Australians on the issue of sea poration and Westgate Ports are jointly fund- container security. It is currently impossible ing an $80 million cargo berth. Among many to ascertain the amount of illicit cargo enter- other initiatives, the new cargo berth will ing Australia via sea containers. Customs include high-speed container scanning for all officers at Senate estimates conceded that a containers. It is estimated that the port of considerable amount of illegal imports are Melbourne handles nearly $70 billion in an- entering in this manner. This is supported by nual trade. This contributes more than $5.4 the fact that other entry mechanisms, such as billion to the state’s economy each year. air cargo and mail, are now highly scruti- Eighty million dollars would appear to be a nised. very sensible investment when providing The evasion of duty through undeclared protection for $70 billion in annual trade. cargo is considered to be another major in- Imagine the economic damage if a security centive for more container inspections. failure closed the port of Melbourne for even Global estimates suggest that trade fraud a short period. Initiatives such as these must costs $US195 billion per year. Annual turn- be applauded. over for the illegal drug industry is about Container security in Australia is already $US430 billion. Approximately 80 per cent the poor cousin internationally. It is now fac- of consignments from developing countries ing further embarrassment domestically. The are misdeclared. Cargo theft is estimated to recently announced Customs container ex- be in the order of $US54 billion per year. amination facility for Adelaide will inspect The Howard government recently in- around 1,300 containers each year. What the creased the number of containers inspected announcement does not say is that Adelaide from 80,000 to 100,000 over the next four imported in excess of 49,000 containers in years. However, spread over the four ports 2002-03. This equates to an inspection rate with X-ray facilities it amounts to an extra of less than three per cent. Container inspec- 415 containers per month for each facility by tion in the US is currently well in excess of 2008. Australian ports receive approximately 12 per cent. The recent increase in container 1.6 million loaded import containers and a inspection contradicts the Howard govern- quarter of a million imported empties per ment’s claims that approaching five per cent annum. This means the Howard government was adequate. Interestingly, this is a target has increased the inspection rate on import they are yet to achieve. This is indeed a con- containers by the great figure of one per cent. fession, 2½ years after 9-11, that the ongoing Thankfully, though, people within the ste- ALP criticism is justified. Australia’s water- vedoring industry are taking the issue seri- front is wide open to terrorism simply ously. Hong Kong’s Modern Terminals Ltd is through the 2½-plus million containers running a six-month pilot study to inspect which are not inspected. every container that arrives. Importantly, the While on the issue of border security, it system will provide Customs in Hong Kong would be remiss of me not to mention the with comprehensive, integrated data on recent drugs debacle. The issue of perform- every export container. It is not expected that ance-enhancing drugs has led to another em- barrassing admission by the Minister for Jus-
CHAMBER 26056 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 tice and Customs. There were 1,269 seized other areas of Customs’ responsibility and illegal imports of prohibited performance- has also caused confusion and scepticism in enhancing drugs in 2002-03. Only 376 were the import and export marketplace. formally investigated. This resulted in the A search on the Internet reveals outdated magnificent sum of 67 convictions. So the material and advice in relation to the release chances of someone importing illegal sub- of the CMR. This should not be surprising— stances into Australia and escaping prosecu- the continuing cost of updating this material tion are very high indeed. It is important to would be a significant impost or cost to in- note that the legislation provides for a fine of dustry. The lack of updates on industry web $100,000 and five years jail for such of- sites indicates that they have adopted a wait- fences. Customs has long been struggling to and-see attitude to the CMR delivery, and perform its responsibilities, and now the who could blame them. Initially, as the min- cracks are wide open. ister stated, the system was due to be phased I move now to the issue of the Customs in by mid-2003. The export component of cargo management re-engineering project. It the system is now due for launch in October is likely that the enormous cost overrun of this year, and the import component has been this project is responsible for many border put back to mid-2005. That is a delay of at security failures. The CMR project has the least two years. Going on the record thus far, capacity to standardise and streamline report- it would be fair to say that further delays ing across Australia’s borders—an eminently should not be ruled out. sensible goal. I quote the Minister for Justice In conclusion, there are many issues and Customs, who said: within the Australian Customs Service that Once the Bill has been passed by the House of highlight the Howard government’s failures. Representatives next week, the new system will This situation is not caused by the ineffec- be phased in over two years reflecting industry tiveness of Customs officers, who provide a need for time to adapt to the new processes and valuable service; it is brought about by the information technology systems ... Howard government’s failure to provide ap- Unfortunately for the import/export industry, propriate resources for a service that has had the minister said this over three years ago. In to adjust to rapid change in the requirements May this year, the Australian’s ‘IT Business’ of border security. The Howard government section had this to say: should cease its reliance on publicity stunts Nightmares don’t get much worse in the IT indus- to prop up its poor record on these issues. It try than the Australian Customs Service’s Cargo needs to act immediately to repair the dam- Management Reengineering project. Long on age it has inflicted on the Australian Customs promises and short on delivery, the CMR has Service. been a horror show almost from day one. It has been years in the making and is $100 million over National Stem Cell Centre budget. Senator HARRADINE (Tasmania) (7.09 The significant delay and estimated cost p.m.)—Senators may recall that some weeks overrun in excess of $150 million make this ago I noted my concern at the unexplained project an unmitigated disaster. The delay in increase in funding for the National Stem delivery is indicative of the Howard gov- Cell Centre Ltd from $43.55 million in 2002 ernment’s failure to appropriately oversee to around $100 million in the last budget. such initiatives. Significantly, the cost over- The funding has more than doubled, the run has been offset by cutting costs within normal funding processes do not appear to
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26057 have been followed and the money is not stone tables, without the blacking out. They properly accountable to the public. reveal that last year the NSCC was running At the budget estimates hearings a couple so far behind with a number of milestones of months ago, I asked Biotechnology Aus- that the deadlines had to be extended. Out of tralia and the Australian Research Council the 26 short-term milestones in the business how and why that extra money was allo- plan, the NSCC was running behind in eight cated. I did not really get any answers. What milestones, or 30 per cent. I did find out was that the performance of the The eight milestones were extended be- National Stem Cell Centre had not been cause the centre was: three months behind in evaluated and no funding committee had establishing a control framework for research recommended that funding to the NSCC be operations at the Monash Science Technol- more than doubled. To try to find out ogy Research and Innovation Precinct, whether the NSCC had had such success that named STRIP; four months behind in com- it warranted this $57.9 million increase, I pleting the fit-out for moving into the asked for details of the NSCC’s achieve- STRIP; three months behind in ensuring the ments. But the officers could not or would formal opening of the NSCC facility at the not tell me what they were. Industry minister Monash STRIP; three months behind in Ian Macfarlane later intervened to say that I commencing training of major national re- could not have information on the centre’s search facility technicians; three months be- performance because it was commercial-in- hind in opening the new major national re- confidence. search facility; three months behind in hav- The funding deeds the Commonwealth ing the first non-centre user of the major na- has with the NSCC include a number of tional research facility; seven months behind milestones or critical dates that the NSCC in the NSCC awarding the first postgraduate has to meet in order to satisfy its obligations student scholarships; and seven months be- to the Commonwealth for funding. The Aus- hind in the first NSCC funded postgraduate tralian Research Council gave me a copy of students commencing training. the NSCC business plan which was part of And these are just the short-term mile- the funding deed, but most of the milestone stones as recorded in those papers from last information had been blacked out— year. We still do not know whether those ‘redacted’ is the current jargon. One of the milestones were met or whether the centre is Biotechnology Australia officials said to me: meeting its key performance indicators. Re- I think you have requested those— member these are not voluntary activities; the milestones— they are obligatory milestones which the NSCC had committed to meet as part of its as part of the business plan in the past, and the contract for funding and which had to be minister has made a judgment that some of those are commercial-in-confidence and should not be changed to give it more time. Given that the released ... government would not give me more up-to- date information, this is the best indication Since then I have been very helpfully handed we have of the NSCC performance thus far. a set of papers that include the performance of the National Stem Cell Centre against a In answer to one of my questions at the number of milestones. I was given this not estimates committee about the achievements by the department, mind you, but by some- of the NSCC, the officials from Biotechnol- one else. The papers contain the same mile- ogy Australia said:
CHAMBER 26058 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
There are milestones that we have set for the cen- DEST was not the only Commonwealth tre and we are actually due to get a quarterly re- funding agency to be formally informed after port from them today. We will be assessing the event. Biotechnology Australia was given whether they have met those milestones and then a day’s notice of the NSCC’s restructure as a making determinations about funding to be re- fait accompli. But Biotechnology Australia leased based on them meeting those milestones. does not seem to have been too concerned. A Yet, despite a substantial list of milestones Biotechnology Australia officer emailed the that have been changed to give the centre NSCC stating: more time, its overall funding was more than The Commonwealth needs to formally approve doubled. Officials from the ARC and Bio- change in specified personnel. I will probably technology Australia were careful not to say need an email from you to which we will respond where this impetus for more than double the ... funding had come from, but the implications Incredibly, the NSCC then suggested this of their careful answers were from the indus- email be delayed until after the new man- try and education ministers’ offices. The pa- agement structure was formalised. It amazes pers also give some indication of the ‘care’ me that a company so dependent on govern- with which the National Stem Cell Centre ment funding for its survival deals with its reports to the Commonwealth. funding agencies in such an offhand way. Or Some of you may remember the contro- perhaps the National Stem Cell Centre feels versy in mid-2003 when Professor Alan so secure in its funding—whatever it does or Trounson stepped down from running the does not do—because of political patronage NSCC and took on a new role within the which guarantees it continued funding centre. Apparently, the Department of Educa- whether or not it performs or whether or not tion, Science and Training only found out it complies with the funding deed. about the new management arrangements by I have previously dealt with the ethically email after the fact. DEST officers were un- contentious issues surrounding the work of derstandably a little concerned, especially the centre. Tonight I am focusing on the im- given the funding contract requires DEST portant issue of scrutiny of government ex- approval for such changes in personnel. A penditure. The situation is not good. The DEST officer emailed the NSCC to say: Australian parliament needs to have access We do not appreciate being notified of strategic to information to reassure the Australian organisational changes via a press article after the public that funding decisions are being taken event. We require formal notification of such sig- correctly. The public needs to be reassured nificant changes in accordance with the require- ments of the ... Deed. that political patronage is not defining re- search funding in this controversial area. A The centre does not apologise for this either. company should not be given $100 million Instead, the NSCC wrote to DEST in August and funded to 2010-11 without even a formal 2003 to say: evaluation of its performance. The govern- We would like to improve our communications ment stands condemned on this particular with our Commonwealth supporters, and will matter. (Time expired) work diligently in future to communicate on all pertinent matters and to provide appropriate no- Child Abuse tices. In future, all matters of relevance ... will be Senator SANTORO (Queensland) (7.19 copied to you directly. p.m.)—As honourable senators know, I have made the issue of child abuse a primary fo-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26059 cus of my contributions to debate in the Sen- Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and the ate. Chiefly, this has been in the context of ACT all have inquiries of one sort or another conditions in my home state of Queensland. under way—issues of neglect of duty in child The Beattie Labor government, which has protection matters that are frankly shocking now been in power for six years and which and which should make every Australian in February this year won an election fought think very hard about how to fix the prob- on the premier’s further claim that he would lem. Of course, as a senator for Queensland, do something to put an end to obvious my own state is my chief focus. It is clear wrongs in the state care system, is still not up that, while there have been some encourag- to the mark in its duty of care but at least— ing changes, many things remain that must and at last—when this year’s state budget be fixed. was brought down in June it outlaid very The new Department of Child Safety has a substantial sums to address the chronic director-general, former Children’s Commis- maladministration and failure that has sioner Robin Sullivan. But there is still no stained Queensland for far too many years. new Children’s Commissioner—a crucial On previous occasions when I have spo- appointment—and no evidence of startling ken on this issue in this place—and since and necessary change that has managed to June last year I have spoken six times di- migrate from paper to practical application. rectly on the issue—I have made the point In May, the Queensland child protection that changing Queensland’s ways in this area minister, Mike Reynolds, revealed that 14 is not a partisan question. It is something in children who had some connection to the which every Queenslander has a vital interest former families department had died in the and, I hope, a determination to put right. first four months of the year. Up to that point Through this process, during which a great in financial year 2003-04 the number of many Queenslanders lost patience with the deaths of children known to the department Beattie government, I called for the most stood at 29. The figure for the whole of the searching of inquiries. Eventually, when it previous financial year was 19. became absolutely clear that the Beattie gov- There is no doubt that crimes against chil- ernment was still more interested in its po- dren anger Australians deeply. The thousands litical supremacy than in accepting responsi- who rallied outside the Victorian parliament bility, I called for a royal commission. on Sunday demonstrate that. Equally, there is It is instructive that, in the context of fur- no doubt that governments will eventually ther shocking allegations of sexual abuse of react when confronted by sufficient evidence children by church figures, my Queensland that they can no longer hide the facts, or colleague Senator Andrew Bartlett is now when public disquiet reaches proportions that making the same call—and I support him on political leaders see as having possible elec- that. As that particular case demonstrates, toral ramifications. Child protection matters issues of child protection cannot be quaran- are almost exclusively within state and terri- tined within individual state or territory bor- tory control, as is quite proper in a federal ders. It does not matter that regulating child system that has developed a strongly de- protection and paying for it from their own volved system of governance. But equally, funds—an ever increasing flow of which the Commonwealth must have an interest in comes from Commonwealth sources—is the matter, must take an interest in the matter formally the responsibility of the states. We and ultimately must insist, through funding see around the country—Western Australia, mechanisms or by overriding legislation, that
CHAMBER 26060 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 subnational jurisdictions meet their obliga- the states and territories to get their act to- tions. gether—there’s an idea: I emphasise ‘to- One way the Commonwealth can assist— gether’—to ensure that children directly and and it does so, very effectively—is by sup- indirectly in state care are not abused or mis- porting foster carers. This is something to treated. which the Howard government is strongly As a Queenslander, it has been instructive committed. Just last week the Minister for for me to observe the unfolding dramas in Children and Youth Affairs, Mr Larry An- other places, as jurisdictions around the thony, reinforced this point publicly, noting country struggle to come to grips with the that there are approximately 8,300 foster child protection scandals in their own back- carers in Australia looking after nearly yards. It is a sorry picture that we see, and I 10,300 children at risk. The minister noted certainly hope that children at risk in other that child welfare is primarily the responsi- states and territories of Australia do not have bility of state and territory governments and to wait as long as Queensland children have that each of these entities has its own legisla- had to wait for their governments to stop tion, policies and practices in relation to fos- playing the blame game and start practical ter care and foster care payments. Common- implementation of much-needed reforms. wealth support for this disparate system of We should never forget that it took the care is substantial. Beattie Labor government five years to fi- At the end of last month community ser- nally do more about the obvious problem vices ministers agreed to implement a na- than find another excuse—in one instance, tional plan for foster children, young people another excuse of a minister. The issue of and their carers. The plan will see improved child protection certainly predates the elec- training and information for foster carers and tion of the Beattie government in 1998. But the development of uniform data collection that is six years ago now, and the Beattie to help authorities determine the critical ar- government came to power carrying the bag- eas that require attention. The Howard gov- gage of the Goss government, which had lost ernment has contributed funding for research power 17 months previously. A large part of by the Child Protection Clearinghouse into the Goss government’s baggage was the various foster care issues. There is also Heiner case—the decision by the newly in- $550,000 for the development of national stalled Goss cabinet in 1990 to shred the evi- resources for foster carers and children in dence gathered by former magistrate Noel foster care. State and territory ministers also Heiner in pursuit of allegations of the sexual have before them a request from the Child abuse of girls in state care. As honourable and Family Welfare Association of Australia senators know, this is still a current issue. It for the establishment of national out-of-home is the subject of further inquiry by a House care standards. of Representatives committee and, in our The overwhelming majority of foster car- own chamber, of an examination as to ers are good people with great good in their whether witnesses at an earlier committee hearts and plenty of energy, whose whole inquiry misled the Senate. It is an indictment focus is the wellbeing of the young people in of the Queensland jurisdiction—and those their care. They deserve the best support, and within it—that official witnesses the present this is where the Commonwealth can and committee would like to examine are un- does play a great role. What is needed is for available to us. It reflects no credit on the present Queensland government that—even
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26061 after all this time and with all the indications cal rural economy but it also has particular we have seen in the intervening 14 years to issues to do with access, rural lifestyle and a the effect that institutional abuse continued fairly low income level across the region. after the Heiner inquiry was shut down—no- The students identified these issues. In terms one in the state administration is prepared to of the things that could make their life better, accept the responsibility to answer questions they talked about two reasons for living in that clearly need to be answered. the area. One was that their families had Discovering Democracy Project been born and raised there: this area has a long history of people who settled there in Senator MOORE (Queensland) (7.26 the 19th century and have stayed there, with p.m.)—Two weeks ago, along with Senator third and fourth generations on the land. The John Cherry, another Queensland senator, I other was that, increasingly, families have had the pleasure of visiting the Gatton cam- chosen to move into this part of country pus of the University of Queensland and at- Queensland, for lifestyle and economic rea- tending a ‘Senate hearing’—but a very spe- sons. cial one—put on by students representing three local high schools. Lowood, Laidley The kids were saying that at this point in and Lockyer state high school students in time they felt isolated from the wider com- grade 10, as part of the Discovering Democ- munity and that the main reason for that was racy program, worked together to show transport. The degree of knowledge amongst Senator Cherry and I how a Senate commit- the transport group was quite wonderful. tee should operate. And they did show us They had taken the time to study transport how one should work. routes; they had been onto state government areas to talk about rail routes; and they had The students prepared issues that were looked at the key point of independence and important to them and their community, they the need for cooperation to make the com- identified amongst themselves a group of munity vibrant. They talked of their concerns senators and they looked at issues affecting about living in a rural area and their total the quality of life for young people in their dependence on their families and friends to area, the Lockyer Valley of Queensland. be able to move around. There are not par- They identified key issues and then worked ticularly strong public transport links to the together to develop their arguments. The key major cities, and they felt that they were issues were transport; employment; sport; stuck and were always reliant on someone recreation, especially retail; and the envi- else to be able to travel. This caused them to ronment, particularly the issues of water and feel as though they were always behind when salinity as they affected their community. it came to choice. They came up with some The kids got together. They were all volun- innovative plans about shared transport and teers. No-one was forced to take part in this new roads. They were particularly concerned program. They identified that they wanted to about safety on the roads to ensure that large be there and they gave up a full day of their trucks were not destroying the environment time—at a place other than school—to come or the roads through their communities. They along and work together on these issues. said that public transport was the real key for The Lockyer Valley is part of the federal people to access job opportunities, training electorate of Blair. It is in south-east Queen- and higher education. They thought that they sland and is mainly a rural electorate. It is an could work more effectively with their gov- area of wonderful wealth in terms of the lo-
CHAMBER 26062 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 ernment to develop solutions around that It was not just the fact that there were not area. enough jobs around. They had a very good The issue of employment came up a lot. knowledge about quality jobs. They were There are just not enough jobs in the area for worried about the fact that either the few people when they leave school, let alone small businesses could not afford to employ when they are trying to get part-time jobs to extra people or the kind of employment be- help them through their study. This is also a ing offered was often not the best in terms of major issue for university students who are wages and conditions. And here, as in so travelling to the Gatton area. There are no many other areas, we heard stories about jobs around for people who are taking up young kids, students, who needed to supple- full-time studies at the local tertiary educa- ment their income but who were used as vir- tion centre—the well-known Gatton Col- tually slave labour in terms of being paid lege—to supplement their study. inadequate wages or who were fired without warning, with no explanation. They were just The students spoke very knowledgeably being used because some employers—not about the effect of the cost of higher educa- all—know that they can do it and get away tion and that, for many of their families, in- with it, and that is sad. creased HECS fees could mean they could not make the choice of tertiary education— The students talked about how you need a and many of them did want that choice. They market to have jobs. They were concerned knew that to take up most elements of further that in some of the small country towns education would mean that they would have where they live and go to school there are to leave home because, as we said, the trans- closed shopfronts. Businesses are not surviv- port links are not good and there is no way ing because there is not enough market. They that they can commute to higher education, spoke very knowledgeably about how you including to TAFE college in Ipswich. build up market to attract people. They felt that they could work within their community, They talked to me about how they had with support from governments—Senator chosen options for careers. One young Cherry was there for most of this discus- woman was very keen to take up medicine sion—to increase the opportunities for peo- and to move on to become a cardiac surgeon. ple at the local level. She knew exactly what she had to do for that option. None of that is available locally, of This linked into the issue of retail. So course. People talked about the options of many people in larger cities take for granted taking up interior design, nursing, education options that kids who are living in the coun- and working more effectively on the land try do not have. For them to go shopping or with their families. Unfortunately, that last to go out with their friends often means a choice was not available for many of them, two- or three-hour journey. From where they because the economic conditions are such live, it does not take that long to drive into that they can no longer absolutely survive by Ipswich, Brisbane or Toowoomba. But, by staying on family properties. The option is the time the kids link up—they share trans- always there for them to take up other work. port; they catch buses—that journey can take But that means leaving the area, which is them up to three hours. One of the good something that not many of them really want things about the Lockyer Valley is that you to do but they can see that that would be the can go up the range to Toowoomba or you reality. can go down to the areas around Brisbane and Ipswich—it is right in the middle—but it
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26063 takes time and it takes money. That was a going to cut this program, but whilst we have major issue for them. teachers of the quality of those who sup- The issue of sport got them all going be- ported the students in the three high schools cause they all felt that that was something that we visited the other day, elements of the that could be provided cooperatively be- program will be maintained because of its tween government and community. They value. I would like to congratulate the teach- talked about upgrading the facilities at local ers and, in particular, those students in- areas. Local sports grounds would have good volved. I hope that their knowledge of de- provision of services so that people were mocracy through this process will continue. able to have the best quality sport facilities to This is a good program, and I thank them for develop their skills and to have the chance, allowing me to be their guest. as many young people from the area have Immigration: Detainees already done, to succeed at and enjoy play- Senator BARTLETT (Queensland— ing sport across the board. Again, the issue Leader of the Australian Democrats) (7.36 of money came up; it is a major concern. I p.m.)—I speak tonight on one of the founda- did laugh with them a bit about how often an tions of our democracy and one of the key area called Plainlands came up in their dis- parts that led in many respects to the evolu- cussion. At the moment it is quite a small tion of parliamentary democracy around the community on the highway, but just about all world—that is, the basic right of people to be their solutions included some facility at able to ensure that they are free from arbi- Plainlands. I think it is a central spot. trary detention at the hands of a government Senator Cherry—Yes, Plainlands mall. or an executive. That need to ensure that Senator MOORE—Senator Cherry, it is people cannot be arbitrarily imprisoned a message for the people at Plainlands. The without charge, without being accused of a kids were very keen about that place. What particular crime by a governing body and came out of this visit for me was a concern without any judicial oversight is one of the that, at the beginning of the day, this whole most fundamental human rights that we have process seemed to be a bit of debate: people and one of the most fundamental freedoms. who were putting forward their argument It is a freedom that far too many people were often in a debate with the senator who around the world do not have. It is one that felt that they had to argue back to the people should be very jealously and very vigilantly who were representing the community. By guarded. the end of the day, I think we had worked out It is for that reason that I and the Democ- that the whole process was much more about rats have been so concerned about the poten- a community finding expression rather than tial consequences and the underlying prece- about debating points and finding out rea- dent that has now been established as a result sons why an argument could not work. I of the High Court decisions last Friday. hope that that message will continue with the Those decisions related to immigration de- people who participated. tention, which has been an issue of great This whole experience showed me how controversy in our country over a long pe- valuable the Discovering Democracy pro- riod. We have had mandatory detention of all gram is in our schools. I want to pay tribute unauthorised arrivals—people who arrive to the teachers who keep this program going. without a valid visa—for over 12 years. It It is a great shame that the government are has been a very contentious issue. Indeed, it
CHAMBER 26064 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 is an issue that has been subjected to many This is an extremely serious situation be- court appeals over quite a period of time. A cause it is a significant expansion of gov- range of High Court decisions have indicated ernment power. It now means that, in our the lawfulness of mandatory administrative country, the minister has the power to keep detention. That has been disputed. Almost all somebody locked up or to deny a person those High Court decisions have been split their freedom indefinitely if they do not have decisions, so there have clearly been differ- a valid visa in Australia, even if no other ing bodies of opinion about the lawfulness of country is prepared to take them. It has been mandatory administrative detention. suggested that all of these people have no The mandatory detention of all people right to be in Australia so therefore they have who arrive in a country, who are in a country no right to freedom. The fact is, they have no for administrative purposes under migration right, in that very narrow sense of the word, law, is a policy—or a law, rather—that is to be in any country. Because they are in that unprecedented in the democratic world. The very unfortunate situation of being stateless United States, European countries, Hong they should not also have the added burden Kong and Canada have various forms and of having no freedom at all. But that is the mechanisms for dealing with people who situation that people are now in. arrive unauthorised or without authorisation The minister said yesterday in question of a valid visa but none of them involve time that there is a safety valve, to use her mandatory, automatic detention or the ability words, of ministerial discretion. The minister for automatic detention by the government of can decide to free them if they think the cir- the day without any reference to circum- cumstances warrant it. Firstly, that discretion stances. cannot be compelled. There is no require- That was a serious enough situation but ment on the minister to use it. There is no we now have the decision from last Friday— ability for anybody to undertake any legal it was a very close decision of 4-3, but it is process to force the minister to even look at nonetheless clear-cut—that it is lawful for the matter, let alone make a favourable deci- people to be detained indefinitely even when sion. There is no set of criteria legally en- they have indicated a wish to be deported forceable by which they have to judge that and the Australian government has tried situation. There is no need to consider any every avenue to deport them but has not been concept of fairness or justice. It is totally up able to find a country that is willing to take to the minister’s discretion. That is not a them. Even in those circumstances, accord- safety valve and it is certainly not a guaran- ing to the High Court, it is lawful for those tee of the upholding of basic freedoms, be- people to be kept locked up, regardless of the cause there is no guarantee that a person can circumstances—regardless of whether they be freed. That is not a specific reflection on are young or old, whether it has been one the current minister. Perhaps the current min- week or six years, whether they are gravely ister will always do the right and appropriate ill or in perfect health, whether they have thing but there is no guarantee that a future children or are children, or whether they minister would do the same thing. have family outside in the community. Re- Clearly, it cannot be an adequate safety gardless of any of those circumstances, it is valve because we have people already in this automatic—there is no scope for legal re- country who are in precisely that situation: view—for those people to be able to be who do not have a valid visa, who have been locked up indefinitely. found to not be a refugee and who have said,
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26065
‘I want to be deported,’ but cannot be and so ernments can change and political circum- are in detention—in one case, for over four stances can change, and to allow somebody’s years. There is one person who has been in freedom to be dependent on always having a detention for close to six years in total. A six- minister who will always do the right thing, year-and-counting jail sentence as a conse- without any legal protection or oversight or quence of being stateless does not strike me independent examination of the situation, is as just. It certainly does not strike me as an simply unacceptable. We cannot allow this indication that the law has adequate protec- situation to remain under the migration law tions and adequate safety valves, to use the for one minute longer, because every minute minister’s expression, to make sure that peo- that it remains is an extra minute that prece- ple are not unreasonably punished or unrea- dent can be pointed to for the misuse of that sonably imprisoned. Denying a person their power and for that loss of a fundamental freedom is about as fundamental as it gets. I freedom to be expanded into other areas of do not think we should ignore that situation. law, particularly in an atmosphere where fear It is important to emphasise this also be- of terrorism is so high. I remind the Senate cause of the precedent established. We all of a report released just today by Human know that, in this parliament, governments Rights Watch which pointed to a range of repeatedly come along with laws and say, countries as diverse as Egypt, Uzbekistan, ‘This is okay because it’s been done previ- Morocco, Malaysia and Sweden significantly ously and has been found to be lawful and violating human rights under the rationale of acceptable, so we’ll now apply it to another combating terrorism. You cannot fight terror- group in the community.’ It is quite clearly ism by undermining the very freedoms we now feasible for a government to pass a law are trying to protect in that battle against ter- that, if the parliament agrees, will enable a rorism. (Time expired) minister to keep somebody detained indefi- Tasmania: Office of State Governor nitely—and that could mean for years— Senator BARNETT (Tasmania) (7.46 without charge, let alone a trial, as long as p.m.)—I rise tonight to take exception to the they can frame it as being an administrative statement by former Tasmanian Governor detention for purposes for which the gov- Richard Butler that he was standing down ernment has a head of power under the Con- from the office of governor because of what stitution. They have a head of power for mi- he called a ‘malicious campaign’ against him gration issues and they clearly have a head of which was damaging Tasmania’s good name. power for security and defence issues. The In my view, the obvious flaw in that state- obvious danger area is the so-called antiter- ment is the absurd suggestion by Mr Butler rorism legislation and the potential for a that there was a so-called ‘malicious cam- government to say that it needs to have this paign’ that was somehow the arch-villain in power to lock up people on the grounds of this whole unfortunate constitutional soap public safety without judicial oversight; there opera which has damaged the state’s reputa- will be no protection or ability to ensure the tion, rather than any of Mr Butler’s actions basic freedoms guaranteed by the law. and statements. There was no malicious Nobody can seriously suggest that you can campaign that wrought its evil upon the But- have an adequate guarantee of people’s free- lers and Tasmania. There was only one doms being protected by relying on the basic source of damage to our state’s good name— decency, humanity or competence of a minis- Richard Butler. ter of the day. The minister can change, gov-
CHAMBER 26066 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
I must say that I was surprised by Jim Ba- his office, this solemn cornerstone of our con’s appointment of Mr Butler last year, but constitutional democracy in Tasmania. like the vast majority of Tasmanians I was The media have adequately covered these prepared to wait and see whether the Bacon incidences in today’s reporting of Mr But- experiment would succeed, because if it did ler’s resignation and in recent days. For the succeed Tasmania would be a better place for record, I would like to detail some of them it. Sadly, it failed. The reason why is not hard here. Let me say at the outset that the ap- to see: in the early days Mr Butler could not pointment was of an outspoken and ardent help himself and continued his tirades republican, a very political high-profile iden- against the United States and the Howard tity in Labor politics, a person who was an government. He used speeches in Tasmania adviser to former Prime Minister Gough to attack the Howard government on a range Whitlam, and a person who was paid the of domestic and international policy issues— highest vice-regal salary in Australia—even namely, health, education, refugees and the higher than Australia’s Governor-General, war in Iraq. He started his vice-regal career Major General Michael Jeffery—yet this as a divisive influence in Tasmania, which is occurred in the smallest state in Australia. an anathema to the vice-regal tradition of a The state government and Premier Lennon unifying force and a symbol of cohesion and have to respond to the dilemma of how this understanding. In this regard I commend and came about. Basically, the fact that our state acknowledge the fine and outstanding work governor was the highest paid in Australia, of Sir Guy Green, the governor immediately higher than our Governor-General, was never prior to Richard Butler, General Sir Phillip going to sit well with Tasmanians, or indeed Bennett and indeed so many other governors with Australians generally. Mr Butler was before them who distinguished themselves in sworn in on 2 October last year. Two days so many ways and who united the people and later Mr Butler married Jennifer Gray. They the state of Tasmania over so many years. took three weeks leave in advance. In Octo- Former Governor Butler had to be disci- ber the Butlers went to Singapore and other plined by the new Premier, Paul Lennon, as a parts of Asia on their honeymoon. The email result of his statements. Paul Lennon pub- reports subsequently quoted in various media licly stated that he expected Mr Butler to showed that Mr Butler had demanded to be cease making political comments. Mr Len- upgraded on Singapore Airlines because of non said that he expected this request to be his position as governor, despite the fact he ‘strictly adhered to’. The Premier’s statement had only paid for an economy class air fare. is ample evidence that Mr Butler trans- In November, Mr Butler failed to wear the gressed convention and tradition in his traditional poppy on Remembrance Day and statements and in his Australia Day address received the appropriate expressions of con- this year. If this were simply a case of ill- cern from the RSL and other parts of the conceived political statements having been community. He used a speech on Australia made early in the piece, Mr Butler would Day to launch a thinly veiled attack on the still be the Queen’s vice-regal representative Howard government on refugee and Indige- in Tasmania tonight. But Mr Butler’s contro- nous issues, health and social welfare policy, versial statements were followed by behav- education policy and the war on Iraq. He iour as governor that most Australians would branded the United States as the most ‘highly find both embarrassing and unbecoming of nationalistic’ and ‘self-centred’ government we have known. He cancelled a commitment
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26067 to open National Trust Heritage Month in pride, an imperious ego or contempt for all Launceston, citing an ‘urgent matter’ he had those around him, Mr Butler executed and to attend to and was seen attending a recital then hastened his own downfall. by the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra in Even when speaking to me at a Hobart. Launceston Chamber of Commerce function, In May, according to the Australian news- following a question I asked as to whether he paper, he breached protocol at the Danish supported the free trade agreement, in a wedding of Tasmanian Mary Donaldson to group meeting with other members of the Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark by start- chamber, in regard to the Howard govern- ing his meal before the Danish Queen had ment’s response to the free trade agreement, arrived. The May budget in Tasmania he said, ‘You bastards did nothing for us in showed a huge increase in the cost of run- Tasmania.’ I subsequently wrote to the Pre- ning Government House. This was a budget mier about that particular comment by Gov- prepared by the state Labor government and ernor Butler and still have not received a it included a 70 per cent increase in supplies response. The editorial in today’s Australian and consumables, according to the Hobart newspaper states: Mercury. RICHARD Butler lasted just 10 months as gover- In June this year he claimed that there was nor of Tasmania before his resignation last night. a campaign to bring him down—an extraor- It is an extraordinary end to a turbulent tenure, dinary claim under the circumstances, not- brought about by his inability to adjust to the job. withstanding all the views and concerns ex- … … … pressed by the Premier of Tasmania in terms He offended community groups. An analysis of of gagging him and the community’s re- the vice-regal diary by Hobart’s daily newspaper sponse to his actions. In July Mr Butler The Mercury demonstrated that Mr Butler was broke with tradition and did not speak at the hosting 70 per cent fewer functions at Govern- Vietnam Veterans Day commemorative ser- ment House and only undertaking half of the pub- vice. I would suggest that this antiwar state- lic engagements in the city of his predecessor, Sir Guy Green. He was also exceedingly well paid ment was akin to the behaviour of a teenage for what he did, earning $370,000 a year—more peace activist. One would be hard pressed to than the Governor-General. And he had trouble find a Vietnam veteran anywhere who is a hanging on to help—three senior staff walked out warmonger. of Government House last week. And then there Then we had the resignations of Govern- were suggestions Mr Butler was exuberant in ment House senior staff: the honorary police enjoying himself. aide-de-camp Sydney McClymont, after 17 I conclude by saying that it reveals a state years in the role; official secretary John Labor government clearly out of touch with Chilcott, who is widely respected by all sides the thinking and values of ordinary Tasmani- of politics; senior adviser Anne Parker; and ans. Today the Lennon government an- military aide-de-camp Chris Beattie. The so- nounced a $650,000-odd payout to Mr Butler called ‘malicious campaign’ against Richard after just 10 months in the job. Butler was in effect his own excuse for his Senator Ian Macdonald—You’re kid- inappropriateness as Governor of Tasmania. ding! He could have been a great ambassador for Senator BARNETT—I am not kidding. Tasmania, or at least attempted to be so, but That is the fact. That money could be used to for whatever reason, whether it be boredom, benefit our health system, education, roads
CHAMBER 26068 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 and so on. It reveals a Labor government nised the vulnerable status of the koala under which is out of touch. (Time expired) its Endangered Species Act, and not without Environment: Koalas good reason. Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (7.56 In March, the Queensland government, p.m.)—I rise to bring the attention of the acting on its scientific advisory committee’s Senate to the plight of Australia’s most fa- recommendation, upgraded the koala’s con- mous icon, the koala, particularly in Queen- servation status to ‘regionally vulnerable’ in sland’s south-east corner, where they are un- the south-east corner. While the Democrats der increasing pressure from fast-paced and consider that the reclassification of the spe- short-sighted development. Local, national cies, as advised by Queensland, must be rec- and state authorities seem either unable or ognised as a step forward for the species, we unwilling to ensure that new development do not believe that destruction of precious within the koala habitat is progressed in an habitat in the south-east Queensland biore- appropriate manner. gion has stopped as a result of the Premier’s announcement of the reclassification. The koalas in Queensland’s south-east corner are recognised as one of, if not the, The Democrats believe that the koala must most important remaining native population be recognised as a matter of national envi- of koalas in Australia. Despite this recogni- ronmental significance, if not because of its tion, the area of habitat suitable for these rapidly declining status, then because of its iconic animals continues to be degraded and huge importance to Australian culture and fragmented, despite the high international tourism. We believe that, in light of the sig- profile and popularity of the species. It is nificant impact that the pace and scope of almost a decade since the federal govern- urban development is having in south-east ment’s Threatened Species Scientific Com- Queensland and the effects of both land mittee recognised that the koala was clearly clearing and climate change in other impor- declining in parts of its range. At that time tant koala habitats such as the Pilliga Scrub, the scientific committee committed to recon- much more needs to be done to ensure the sider the koala’s status under federal law koala is adequately protected. again in 2000. To illustrate the threat that habitat destruc- On July 27, the federal Minister for Envi- tion currently poses to south-east Queen- ronment and Heritage received from the Ko- sland’s koala population, I point to the pro- ala Foundation a public nomination to list the posed development of an area abutting the koala as vulnerable under the Environment Daisy Hill State Forest in Logan City, known Protection and Biodiversity Conservation as the Shailer property. This is an area of Act 1999. I urge the minister to ensure the prime koala habitat—indeed, it is part of the current backlog of public nominations does state government’s gazetted koala conserva- not impede the progression of any species tion area. In its original considerations, the deserving federal protection, particularly Logan City Council recommended that any koalas. The level of scientific and public development should include construction of concern about the koala’s status continues to a detention basin, that food trees should be grow, as was evident in the national media a planted in an open space area for the koalas couple of weeks ago when the Australian and that no dogs or cats should be kept with- Koala Foundation lodged its public nomina- out council approval. That development ap- tion. The United States has already recog- plication has not been acted upon.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26069
The Shailer area, now known as the Den- sites proposed under the two new applica- nisvale estate, is one of very few substantial tions run completely contrary to the provi- areas remaining that can provide a safe ha- sions of the koala conservation area planning ven for these koalas. It is not the only area in policy. If this policy is to have any meaning, south-east Queensland that is under threat. I not only should the application for increased also draw your attention to the work of Save density be refused but also the state govern- Our Sunningdale Koalas, a small community ment and the Logan City Council should take group who are objecting to a subdivision of a steps to ensure the full protection of this number of housing blocks in their street. large and important site. The property bor- They believe that the planned subdivision ders the Daisy Hill State Forest on two sides will destroy natural gum trees on the site and and is the largest piece of freehold native will kill off the remaining koalas. The resi- vegetation in the Logan City area. dents describe the area slated for subdivision I have written to the state Premier and as ‘a small island of tall trees in the middle urged him to follow through on his govern- of suburbia’. ment’s commitment to ensure appropriate On 20 July, the Logan City Council re- open space and to recognise that koala popu- ceived two development applications for the lations in southern Queensland are vulner- two large chunks of rural land along Daisy able. I have asked him to use the full powers Hill Road. The first application, by NCR of the state government to act and to prevent Securities Pty Ltd, dealt with the Shailer the very pro development forces on the property. It proposed turning a 48-hectare Logan City Council from approving this de- site into 180 residential lots, which would velopment application. If the rezoning appli- double the residential density allowed under cation is approved, the developers will re- the current town plan. The second applica- ceive a multimillion dollar windfall in in- tion, by Venture 2 Pty Ltd, proposed 22 al- creased land value, making it almost impos- lotments on an adjoining lot, which would sible for a future state or federal government increase the density. This site is vitally im- to buy the land for conservation purposes. portant to koala populations in Logan City. It While I note that the developers propose is bound by the Daisy Hill State Forest on to hand over about a quarter of the land as an two sides. At present, most of the land is addition to the Daisy Hill forest, the devel- bushland, with a small part cleared for the opment proposal includes a substantial in- Shailer farm. The area is contained fully crease in the amount of land that, according within the gazetted koala conservation area to the current town plan, can be developed. and is protected and gazetted under the Local In the decade 1995 to 2004, there were 9,424 Government (Planning and Environment) koalas admitted to the Moggill Koala Hospi- Act 1997. That planning policy sets as its tal in Brisbane for treatment. The majority of objective: these koalas were injured on roads or by do- Important koala habitat should be protected from mestic animals such as dogs. Of those ad- inappropriate future developments and changes in missions, at least 6,000 were confirmed to land use, without affecting existing uses and de- have died. This is a species that is dying in velopment rights or removing development com- significant numbers in habitat already frag- mitments. mented and under challenge from urban de- Although the current Logan town plan has velopment. included some development on the site since 1993, the doubling of the density and the
CHAMBER 26070 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
In June this year, the Queensland govern- Queensland: Services ment estimated that there were about 25,000 Senator SANTORO (Queensland) (8.05 koalas remaining in south-east Queensland. p.m.)—Last week, in a contribution to a de- The Premier also recognised that the prox- bate on a matter of public interest in this imity of urban development to koalas and place, I set out the latest situation in the un- their habitats is of greatest danger to them. ending and unedifying saga of poor service Injury to almost 10,000 of them in a decade delivery by the Beattie Labor government in and the deaths of the majority suggest a spe- Queensland. As a senator for Queensland, I cies in dire straits. If the koala conservation am committed to doing all I can to raise wide area and the reclassification of koalas as ‘re- public awareness of events and issues in my gionally vulnerable’ is to have any meaning, state, particularly when the federal govern- the state government needs to ensure that the ment funds so much of the activity and ser- full spirit of its planning policies is fully vice delivery—or should I say lack of service complied with by the Logan City Council. At delivery—in our state. The Beattie Labor the very least I believe that the state Envi- government likes to think that it is an event, ronment Protection Agency should commis- and its leader is convinced that he is the main sion a fully independent environmental im- event. I am here tonight to remind that leader pact statement on the proposal, with full ref- and his government and the Queensland La- erence to the state and the national koala bor caucus that, while the Beattie govern- conservation plans. ment might have a claim to being an event in If the National Koala Conservation Strat- its own right, there is absolutely no doubt egy, agreed to by the Commonwealth and that poor service delivery is an issue. state governments in 1998, is to have any Last Wednesday I stood in this place and meaning, then the federal Minister for the reported that Queenslanders had learnt that Environment and Heritage should be doing their electricity supplies were not secure and all he can to project the integrity of Austra- that their lights might go out at any time. I lia’s most important koala conservation area. also said, in the context of the huge—and Fast-tracking the ‘vulnerable’ listing would obviously hugely damaging—cash raids that be a major first step, and I urge the minister the Labor government in Queensland regu- to do that. What cannot be tolerated is doing larly inflicts on government owned corpora- nothing while the developers in Logan City tions, that Premier Beattie should tell Queen- win a multimillion dollar windfall from a pro slanders where in his policy for the last state development city council providing a rezon- election they can find the bit about ruining ing and development approval. The commu- the power utilities, Ergon and Energex, and nity and the koalas are the losers from doing turning out the lights. nothing. If this application proceeds, Austra- State Liberal leader Bob Quinn said last lia will see a significant chunk of the most Friday that Queensland Treasurer Terry important habitat of its most iconic marsu- Mackenroth should come clean about exactly pial destroyed. From that point of view, the who advised the Beattie government to take Democrats are determined to assist the local a controversial $150 million special dividend residents in their efforts to make sure that from Energex in 2001. Mr Quinn made this Logan City Council, the Queensland state sensible point after it was revealed that En- government and the national government do ergex Chairman Don Nissen had written to what needs to be done to protect the koalas the state government the preceding year ex- of Logan City and south-east Queensland.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26071 pressing concern over falling capital funding hard hat and flitting out for another photo levels. As Mr Quinn points out, the Queen- opportunity under his major crisis damage sland Treasurer claims the special dividend control program. There is some justice in the was all Mr Nissen’s idea. I suspect that this fact that everywhere he got himself photo- is a somewhat unlikely situation. In fact, I graphed earlier this week, busy being a am sure it is an unlikely situation—unless hands-on premier with electricity repair someone first visited Mr Nissen in his Ener- crews, the lights went out in his wake. Pre- gex office and suggested that, as an alterna- mier Beattie is also being challenged to re- tive to being fitted for concrete boots, he lease more than 100 pages of Energex docu- should divvy up some much-needed addi- ments which have been denied to the Queen- tional revenue for the government. Mr Nis- sland opposition under freedom of informa- sen is a businessman; he is not the tooth tion rules. If he really had nothing to hide, he fairy. But this is not a joke. This is extremely would release those papers. But he will not, serious and a matter of direct concern to the of course. He will instead continue to focus taxpayers of Australia who fund the Queen- on running away from responsibility and sland government to the tune of $7.2 billion arguing that black is white—or, in this in- a year in 2004-05— stance, insisting that red ink is not red ink at Senator Crossin interjecting— all. Senator McLucas interjecting— It is also clear that, at least in the case of Energex, some things have been done that in Senator SANTORO—which is the major the penurious environment of the corporation reason that I get up in this place and make today should not have been done. It is cer- these sorts of contributions that obviously so tainly true—to take up an important point annoy honourable senators opposite. The that deputy state Liberal leader Bruce Flegg Energex special dividend—so special that has been making—that scant financial re- Energex financed it by borrowing against an sources are better spent on maintenance than unrealised capital gain that arose from a re- on public relations. The Energex board valuation of its assets—was an unwarranted should explain why it approved the diversion call on reinvestment funds. In the United of millions of dollars from its maintenance Kingdom it is against the law to make divi- budget to PR. As an increasing number of dend payments from unrealised capital gains. Queenslanders are pointing out, Energex is In Queensland, confronted by Mr Macken- hardly operating in a competitive supply roth’s thievery, the Auditor-General sought market, at least at the bulk domestic cus- crown law advice and later described the tomer end of the scale. It may need to pro- transactions as ‘unusual in terms of generally mote itself as a power corporation—although accepted accountancy practices’. The crown I suggest it should first work on operating law advice, incidentally, was that there have like one—but out there in the suburbs, where been no other similar cases in Australia in- the lights are going out, customers are being volving the asset revaluation reserve. disadvantaged. So much for the smart state I was interested to hear the Premier of that Premier Beattie is forever boasting Queensland today saying he will not waste about. time with the state opposition’s daily attacks There are wrong priorities in Energex— on what ABC radio news described as the that much at least is as clear as daylight— government’s power problem. Of course he just as there are in the state government. If, will not—he is far too busy slipping on his as Dr Flegg says, Energex secretly reallo-
CHAMBER 26072 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 cated $2.1 million from maintenance funding Queensland: Atherton Tableland to PR in 2001-02 and increased that take-out Senator McLUCAS (Queensland) (8.12 to $4.7 million in 2002-03, someone who is p.m.)—This evening I would like to bring to in overall charge of the corporation—and the notice of the Senate events that are oc- that, of course, is the state Treasurer—should curring on the Atherton Tableland, an area be saying, ‘Whoa!’ Unfortunately Mr just west of Cairns in Far North Queensland. Mackenroth has not been pointing out that Senator Santoro—Are you going to talk running a power utility is not something that about Queensland too? There you go! really calls for a Marx Brothers script. He has been too busy, rescripting his own pri- Senator McLUCAS—I am going to talk vate remake of Ned Kelly. about a federal program in Queensland, Senator Santoro—something that I have not When the power reticulation system is in yet heard you do. You continually talk about such a poor state that the supply network for the state government. It is a shame you the Gold Coast region does not meet baseline would not go back and recontest the seat of requirements, something is very wrong in- Clayfield, and then you could talk about that deed. The substandard nature of the supply to your heart’s content. integrity to the Gold Coast was revealed in the Somerville report into the electricity in- The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Senator dustry. It showed that the Gold Coast’s McLucas, please address the chair. 110kV network did not meet the accepted Senator McLUCAS—The rural area west industry N-1 criteria. These criteria mean of Cairns is a group of small communities that the system has an element of spare ca- very much based on agriculture, with a popu- pacity and can cope with unexpected in- lation of almost 60,000. It is an area that has creases in load or severe weather conditions. much going for it, but it faces an enormous They mean that, if one component fails, the set of challenges. There is a series of small remaining components continue to supply townships on the Atherton Tableland inter- consumers because there is a level of dupli- spersed with farmlands. It is a beautiful area cation built into the system. Mr Quinn, who of Australia, but it is an area which, as I said, represents the Gold Coast seat of Robina in is facing some difficulties. I have a very the Queensland parliament, is somewhat un- strong affection for the Atherton Tableland, derstandably irate at this. He says and, I has- because that is where I was born, and I will ten to add, I agree with him: continue to advocate on behalf of tableland- N-1 capacity comes at a higher cost, but if it’s ers at every opportunity I can. But, like many good enough for Brisbane, why not here at the rural communities, it has had to respond to Gold Coast, or are we being treated as second- and manage significant change over the past class citizens by the Beattie government again? 20 or so years. Twenty years ago, there were This is but one of the many tales of woe that two tin dredgers that used to dredge— come out of the Labor run state of Queen- probably inappropriately, given what we sland, where spin replaces substance and the know now—creeks west of the town of people find that legitimate and urgent public Ravenshoe. With the collapse of the tin price, policy questions are locked away in a cup- those two tin dredgers were packed up and board or swept under the carpet. There will sold, and we lost quite a considerable num- be more to say on this and other topics in the ber of jobs as a result of that. future. I respectfully suggest that Queensland In 1986 we had the listing of the wet trop- deserves better than Labor. ics as a World Heritage area. It was a policy
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26073 that I absolutely agreed with, but it did result 10 December 2001 Deputy Prime Minister in considerable change and there was an im- Anderson announced that $18 million would mediate loss of jobs, particularly in the be applied to: southern end of the tablelands. As a result of ... help the Atherton Tablelands region implement the listing of the wet tropics area there has local priority projects, including minor infrastruc- been a considerable growth in tourism, but ture and skills building. there is potential that is still not being What is now known as ATSRAC—the Ather- achieved in that area. More recently we have ton Tablelands Sustainable Regions Advisory had the deregulation of the dairy industry, Committee—was born as a result of those with flow-on effects for farms. There has announcements. There was plenty of fanfare been amalgamation of farms, and some and lots of photos in the paper, mainly of farms are turning to alternative production. Senator Boswell telling the Atherton Table- We have had the initial buyout of tobacco land that they were in fact saved. The answer licences by the state government, with the to any problem brought to the federal gov- deregulation of the tobacco industry; and this ernment’s attention from the Atherton Table- year the complete loss of the tobacco indus- land was, ‘Go to ATSRAC: they’ll solve all try to the Mareeba-Dimbulah area of the your problems.’ Atherton Tableland. It is a litany of sadness In the first 12 months of the program there for people who live on the tablelands, and was little obvious activity. I expected that there is a sense of desperation in certain sec- this time was being used for planning and tions of the community. strategy setting. The ATSRAC priorities are In my view, though, it is not all bad news. on the web site, and there is nothing you can There has been growth in the tourism indus- really disagree with. But the dozen or so pri- try, particularly in the bed and breakfast sec- orities do not describe a vision; they do not tor, an area that needs an enormous amount explain how the Atherton Tableland will of encouragement. And the diversification change its economy and build a robust fu- that has happened in horticulture and the ture. They say they will do things like: ‘en- growing of new products—rare fruits in par- courage the development and retention of ticular; the growth in the mango industry and intellectual property within the region’, ‘en- the introduction of sugar cane to the table- courage the local development of tourism’, lands—are things that we should be com- ‘improve community wellbeing’, ‘lead to mending people for encouraging. new job creation’ and ‘develop the enthusi- It was in the context of this enormous asm, skills and optimism of the region’s change, with the local federal member look- youth’. You could say that pretty well about ing to defect from the National Party, with any region in Australia. What we needed was the state Tablelands electorate re-electing a a vision that described the future for the One Nation candidate and with a looming Atherton Tableland. federal election that Senator Ian Macdonald The work that was done in that first 12 visited Mareeba on 12 September 2001 and months in my view did very little to bring the announced that the Atherton Tableland was community together to show a way forward selected as the first region to be assisted un- and say, ‘This is how we’re going to get out der the Sustainable Regions program ‘be- of the difficulties that we face.’ Those plan- cause of restructuring of the tobacco indus- ning documents do not provide a blueprint try, higher unemployment, lower income and for the future. They do not provide a vision other specific issues in the locality’. Then on
CHAMBER 26074 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 that all tablelanders can get behind to pro- which progress can be measured and which mote and champion their community to po- are developed with local input. Those are the tential investors and to themselves. This lack first two regional priorities identified on the of effective and inclusive planning is one of web site of the program. This is taxpayers’ the criticisms that I have of the program. The money, and taxpayers want value for their $18 million is essentially allocated to pro- money. The charge of pork barrelling that is vide grants to projects that fit within the levelled now, by tablelanders themselves, is stated goals. Other funds are apparently used hard for the government to defend when pro- for administration of the program. ATSRAC jects that are being supported have limited or itself is technically the committee which ad- no identifiable benefit for the tablelands. ministers the program. It is a committee Senator McGauran—For example? made up of the four mayors of Mareeba, Senator McLUCAS—Just wait. Calls of Atherton, Eacham and Herberton shires. complaint to my office grew. The singularly They are joined by Mr Peter McDade and largest area of complaint is that private busi- Professor Bob Beeton, with an observer from nesses, which are in direct competition with the FNQACC. I want to place on record my similar types of businesses, have been suc- recognition of each of these people’s com- cessful in attracting funds. One of the stated mitment to their local government area. They principles is that applications must be com- are strong advocates for their electorates. petitively neutral—in effect, projects must be Therein lies the problem. The reported supported by known competitors. An appli- culture of ATSRAC is of a committee of in- cation, for example, for a timber workshop dividuals defending their patch, not develop- and gallery for the township of Tolga— ing a shared vision and working to achieve it. which had a history in the timber industry I do not blame these individual mayors. They prior to wet tropics listing—has been pro- are simply doing what their voters ask of gressed. It is almost directly across the road them. But I do blame the Deputy Prime Min- from an existing successful timber workshop ister for not identifying that he was establish- and gallery known as Tolga Woodworks. ing a structure destined to be at best prob- Any application is meant to include letters of lematic and at worst dysfunctional. ATSRAC support from potential competitors. The ap- approved 27 projects to 16 June this year, plicant went to Tolga timbers and said, ‘Will and recently a further three projects have you provide me a letter of support?’ The an- been announced. Every few months Senator swer was obviously, ‘No, we won’t,’ but the Boswell comes to the tablelands to have his project has been progressed. It is wrong photo taken handing out cheques to grant when a government is interfering in the local recipients. Increasingly, following each of economy at this level. If the money is ap- these grant announcements the level of dis- plied, Tolga timbers—an existing business quiet and discord around the tablelands has built up over 15 to 20 years—will go down grown and the number of angry telephone the drain, thanks to ATSRAC and the federal calls to my office about the applications of government. money has increased. There was an application lodged by a very This is not to say that all of the projects beautiful bed and breakfast establishment, are of little value. But it is my view, and it is seeking funds of $170,000, to develop a spa. a view shared by tablelanders, that all of the That is not the right way we should use tax- projects should have clear, sustainable long- payers’ money to support one bed and break- term outcomes and clear objectives for
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26075 fast establishment over the top of another. I it would have revealed concerns prior to have had long conversations with the owner those moneys being allocated. of the establishment and he is quite rightly An amount of $150,000 has been allo- very distressed that his business has attracted cated for another project to develop accom- this level of attention. But he also agrees that modation for transient fruit-pickers. It there was a better way to spend the money. It sounds like a legitimate application of funds. would have been better for all of those ex- I have spoken to the proponent; he seems a clusive bed and breakfast establishments to decent enough bloke. He has not put in an come together and develop a marketing application to the council yet. There is a long strategy. This money has not been applied way to go before this project will in fact turn appropriately. into any jobs or any beds for any of the sea- Another area of complaint that people sonal workers who are currently in need of bring to my attention is the funding of pro- accommodation on the Atherton Tableland. jects that then disappear. An amount of But two projects have gained the most $102,000 was given to Eacham Shire Coun- prominence in this whole story. The first one cil for the Malanda Dairy Heritage Centre. is the Atherton hotel. The Atherton hotel is a That has a terribly tragic history. The appli- sweet little hotel in the middle of town. It is a cant, the Eacham Shire Council, contracted standard sort of country pub. It has a bar at an organisation to manage the redevelopment the front. It has lodged an application for of the factory or part of the factory. They some poker machines. A couple of nights a ended up in such dispute with the Eacham week it has things that I do not really ap- Shire Council that they left town. The shire prove of—topless barmaids and things like council then employed the mayor’s son to that. It is not the sort of place that I would operate the project. But if you go to Malanda usually go to. However, the Atherton hotel to look at the dairy heritage centre you will received $500,000 to develop 10 four-star find it is closed, and it has been closed for a hotel rooms, a 350-seat function room and long time. That is not good use of taxpayers’ stage and a 50-seat conference facility. Most money. people, who have any understanding of con- An amount of $750,000 was allocated to a ference venues, know that you do not put company called Nature Trust Australia for a them in a place where there is not much kenaf industry development—one of the parking space or where the general clientele largest, successful grant applications. When I is more interested in whether it is Wednesday raised this issue in the media I received a night and topless barmaid night. That is not phone call from someone saying, ‘I think the good use of taxpayers’ money. people who are the proponents of that devel- Once again, were all of the other hoteliers opment have moved south.’ It became evi- and club operators in Atherton asked if they dent that the people who received the supported such a proposal? The answer was $750,000 were no longer on the tablelands. no. But this proposal has been approved— Where is the value to the economy of the $500,000 of taxpayers’ money—for a hotel Atherton Tableland of $750,000 when the which is in direct competition with four other development is not there anymore? I have hotels and a number of clubs in Atherton, subsequently found out, through questions much less Mareeba. There is no understand- on notice, that that money has in fact been ing of where conference facilities should be returned. Had due diligence been undertaken, located and no understanding that people who want to go to a conference on the Ather-
CHAMBER 26076 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 ton Tableland want to be in the countryside, given to the Deputy Prime Minister for ap- not in town. proval. We cannot point the finger at the Senator McGauran—It has a good people on the tablelands; the finger needs to counter meal. be pointed at the department and the minis- ter. The minister approved nearly $500,000 Senator McLUCAS—It does have a very to go to a wildlife park that went bust almost good counter meal. That is true. within minutes of receiving that money, and Senator Sherry—Julian has obviously now we cannot get that money back. been there! I have written to the Deputy Prime Minis- Senator McLUCAS—But not Wednes- ter on two occasions now, asking for a meet- day nights, Senator McGauran! But the doo- ing to talk with him—firstly, to express my zey, the best one of all, was the $491,900 concerns for the retention of the funds in that that was allocated to the Mareeba Wild Ani- program so that we can actually do some mal Park. The Mareeba Wild Animal Park good with the almost $9 million that is left apparently, according to ATSRAC, fitted and, secondly, to go through the detail of within the priorities that were established for some of the information that people have tourism infrastructure. But, when I read the brought to me that they do not feel confident tourism document—a very good document, about putting in the media themselves, be- funded through ATSRAC—I could not see cause we are talking about small rural com- how, using that document, you could advo- munities. I will be asking the Deputy Prime cate a wild animal park with zebras, lions Minister, if he ever responds to my two let- and rhinoceroses and hippopotami as an ap- ters, for a full audit of all the grants that have propriate adjunct to our tourism potential in been applied. We need to know whether Far North Queensland, where our attributes money is expended in line with the applica- are the beauty of our nature. But ATSRAC tion; we need to know what the outcomes decided that it would be. They gave are, particularly in terms of job generation; $491,900 to David Gill about two months and we need to assess the sustainability of before he went bankrupt and went home to each grant for ongoing economic value. England. We cannot get this money back Once we have done all that, we need to pub- from the Mareeba wildlife park. It was a dis- lish it so that confidence in this project can aster in waiting. Anyone with eyes could finally be built. More than half the money have seen that that money was going to go has been spent. I can see a little bit of a nowhere. And the Deputy Prime Minister value, but certainly not $9 million worth. signed off on that money. This program should be about bringing peo- The other thing the Senate needs to under- ple together, not tearing them apart. Yet that stand is that there are two paths for approval is what is happening on the Atherton Table- under the ATSRAC process. It goes through land as a result of the Deputy Prime Minis- the local organisation—ATSRAC, the re- ter’s inaction. gional advisory committee—but DoTARS Liberal Party: Western Australia does its own assessment of the application, Senator WEBBER (Western Australia) its own due diligence, and makes its own (8.32 p.m.)—I do not propose to take up too recommendations to the minister. On my much of the Senate’s valuable time. These questioning of departmental officials during days federal elections are, more often than estimates on the last two occasions, they not, close-run affairs. I suspect this will confirmed that all these projects had been
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26077 prove to be the case with the coming one as One of Mr Murfin’s campaign workers has well. The Australian people have become been given notice to explain how the letter increasingly cynical over the years about the came to be published. This is in fact the fifth political process and politicians, unfortu- attempt by the Liberal campaign in Swan to nately. Given some of the recent goings-on explain this misleading letter. On one occa- in my home state of Western Australia, they sion on Thursday last week, Ms Dickman are justified in being cynical. Today in the claimed to local press, ‘I wrote the letter, and Australian newspaper is an article headed Mr Murfin tidied it up.’ Then Ms Dickman ‘Letter scam rocks Liberals’. Essentially, the twice claimed, when contacted by other me- people of Western Australia have seen an dia outlets in Perth last week, that Mr Murfin inquiry into the Liberal campaign for Swan had helped write a letter to her niece in Eng- and specifically the writing of letters to the land and she knew nothing about the letter local newspaper. published in the Southern Gazette. Then An 87-year-old woman, Emily Dickman, there is Mr Murfin himself. On 6PR, a Perth had published in the local community news- radio station, on Friday last week he claimed paper, the Southern Gazette, a letter contain- that he had helped Ms Dickman write a letter ing a number of false accusations against the so that she could claim money back on her member for Swan, Kim Wilkie. Ms Dick- health insurance policy, and he knew nothing man’s letter claimed that Mr Wilkie had about the letter to the Southern Gazette. It failed to attend a community crime forum would seem that everyone but Mr Murfin is that he had organised. Not only did Mr to blame—and now we have found the fall Wilkie attend that forum but he also had an person. attendance register that did not contain the Last night as I sat and watched Media name Emily Dickman. Concerned about this Watch, which identified letter writers to ma- accusation, Mr Wilkie’s staff contacted Ms jor newspapers who had failed to identify Dickman, who indicated that the letter had in potential conflicts of interest, I wondered fact been written by the Liberal candidate for whether Ms Dickman and the Liberal cam- Swan, Andrew Murfin. paign for Swan would be given their well- Mr Murfin was interviewed on Perth radio deserved air time as well. The Southern Ga- on Friday morning last week but on Friday zette editor printed a footnote in this week’s afternoon, when he was scheduled to appear newspaper that said: at his own community crime forum, he failed Ms Dickman’s letter included her details but to appear. I am sure that the irony escapes attempts to contact her were unsuccessful. As she no-one. To avoid answering the questions of was listed on the electoral roll, it was decided to the press, he did what the false letter claimed publish the letter. As a result of this issue we have reviewed and changed our verification process. Mr Wilkie had done. It seems that, in the electorate of Swan, what goes around comes So the decent, hardworking staff of the around. Southern Gazette now have to take addi- tional steps to verify letter writers as a result Senator Crossin—That’s what Shane of the actions of the Liberal campaign in Stone said on the radio the other day! Swan. It is clear from the footnote that the Senator WEBBER—Indeed. It now ap- editor and staff—and no doubt the readers— pears from the article in the Australian today of the Southern Gazette are more cynical that the fall guy—or in this case the fall about the political process as a result of this woman—has been found for the false letter. letter fix-up.
CHAMBER 26078 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
This of course is only the proverbial tip of ments show that there was false and insider the iceberg in my home state. It is not the trading going on at Reefton Mining. first time that we have seen Liberal candi- At that time a deal was being negotiated to dates coordinating these kinds of letter cam- sell a Mr Nigel Mansfield’s online casino paigns. In fact, the Liberal member for the project to Reefton Mining. One of the rea- state seat of Kalgoorlie also has form when it sons that Reefton Mining was looked at comes to having ink on his hands. It is true closely was that several known Perth identi- that the pen is mightier than the sword, espe- ties, or ‘persons of interest’ in police par- cially when the pen is wielded by unseen lance, were involved with Reefton Mining or people on campaign teams whose coordi- the online casino project. Indeed it is alleged nated propaganda messages are portrayed as that the notorious Mr John Kizon was one of the view of everyday Australians. So much those persons of interest. According to the for truth overboard—when you actually start paper, Mr Randall’s client was involved in from a position of deceiving the Australian the false and insider trading at Reefton. This people, there is no truth to get on board in client, who apparently caused ASIC to state the first place. It is little wonder that the Aus- that it would continue to hunt the man down, tralian people are cynical. was important enough for Mr Randall to The Australian people also have the right make an appointment with the then Minister to be cynical about former ministers and for Financial Services and Regulation, Mr members of parliament who leave this place Hockey. According to the paper, he was and immediately jump into the ranks of lob- given a warning by Mr Hockey to stay away byists in the very area that they had respon- from the target. sibility for in government. Mr Fahey, Mr At this point one wonders what Mr Ran- Reith, Dr Wooldridge and now our former dall did. He accepted the payment of the colleague Richard Alston have all joined the Reefton Mining shares for the services he ranks of lobbyists that are working in portfo- had provided. However, he claimed to the lio areas for which they had ministerial re- newspaper that he had no reason to not ac- sponsibility. The behaviour of another West- cept the shares. I quote: ern Australian falls into this category as well. “Not really because I was being paid for ser- According to the West Australian published vices,” he said. “I didn’t know who I was dealing on 31 July this year, the member for Can- with at that time, did I? At that stage I thought it ning, Don Randall: was just shares in a mining company.” ... lobbied the Minister responsible for the Austra- How could he not know whom he was deal- lian Securities and Investments Commission on ing with? The minister had given him a pri- behalf of a Perth businessman who was being vate warning to stay away from the target. investigated by the corporate watchdog. Any reasonable person would have said to As a result of this lobbying, Mr Randall ac- themselves: ‘Hold on a minute, my client is cepted shares in the WA company Reefton being investigated by ASIC. The minister is Mining. Reefton Mining occupies a rather telling me to stay away from him. Maybe dubious place in WA corporate history. Dur- this is not quite all above board.’ A reason- ing the period 1 July to 31 October 1999, able person would not have taken shares shares in Reefton Mining surged from a mere from a client who was under suspicion of 7c a share to 35c a share. According to the behaving illegally. article in the West Australian, ACC docu-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26079
Even though it is clear that Mr Randall tion which the newspaper broke only in Feb- has not acted illegally, his involvement in the ruary. The article stated: matter yet again reinforces the Australian Mr Afkos yesterday told The West Australian people’s cynical view of politicians. One he had told the Liberal Party in December about wonders what Mr Randall was attempting to his involvement with the man who had been ar- achieve by lobbying the minister. Surely he rested by organised crime detectives. was not attempting to get the minister to in- But even as Mr Howard launched Mr Afkos’ fluence an independent ASIC investigation. campaign in Perth two weeks ago, senior party One thing is clear: former ministers and officials kept the sensational information secret. members of this parliament must be above Liberal Party State director Paul Everingham reproach if they are going to act as lobbyists yesterday admitted he had been made aware of when they leave here. the $300,000 loan and the drug charges and ap- proached Mr Afkos after another Liberal Party Finally, I have to say that I feel sorry for member had raised concerns with him. He or- the Prime Minister—and that must come as a dered the party lawyer to investigate the matter. surprise to most people. However, it is hard You have to wonder what sort of game they not to feel sorry for him when every time he were playing at Menzies House. It cannot comes to Perth the WA division of the Lib- have been much of an investigation if they eral Party manages to serve him up yet an- had not got to the bottom of the matter be- other scandal. The last time Mr Howard was fore the Prime Minister’s visit. in Perth, in February, they managed to serve Some of the questions that still need to be him up Paul Afkos, the former candidate for answered on this matter are: given that the Stirling. The irony for those of us not in the Director of Public Prosecutions has ruled Liberal Party was that the Prime Minister that the $300,000 must now be repaid as an made a big announcement on his Tough on asset allegedly attributed to a person con- Drugs policy on the same day that he opened victed of and currently charged with drug Mr Afkos’s campaign office in Stirling. trafficking, what inquiries have been made to Within 11 days Mr Afkos was no longer the ascertain the source of the campaign funds candidate for Stirling—a man whom the and the ownership and lease arrangements Prime Minister had described in these glow- for campaign offices in the seat of Stirling; ing terms: given that it is normal practice for campaign He has been in every sense a wonderful citizen of funds to remain with the campaign, can we this country and I’m very proud to have him as be assured that no money has come from the Liberal Party candidate here in Stirling. persons associated with or alleged to be in- Not long after that ringing endorsement it volved with drug trafficking; and what in- was revealed by the West Australian that Mr quiries have been made as to any other con- Afkos was embroiled in an investigation af- tributions or donations that may have been ter he had borrowed $300,000 from a con- made to the Liberal Party by either Mr Afkos victed drug dealer. The real problem is not or his associates, in particular the person the link to the convicted drug dealer, al- who is the subject of the $300,000 loan? As I though it is a very serious issue, but the story said at the outset, we are often concerned that ran in the West Australian on 16 Febru- about why the political process is held in ary 2004 titled ‘Libs hid Afkos deal for such low regard by our fellow Australians. months’. It appears that for two months Lib- These three examples from the Western Aus- eral Party officials kept secret the informa-
CHAMBER 26080 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 tralian division of the Liberal Party illustrate Senator Crossin interjecting— some of the reasons why they do. Senator BOSWELL—If you are going to Political Parties: Candidates continue to interject, I will tell the members Senator BOSWELL (Queensland— of this parliament—and it will go down on Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) (8.46 record—what documentation you handed out p.m.)—There is an election looming in the at the Northern Territory show. It will be very foreseeable future, and it is probably as very embarrassing for you. good a time as any to look at some of candi- Senator Sherry—Me? dates that are presenting themselves to the Senator BOSWELL—No, not you— people. There are the normal parties; the sin- your colleague at the back. gle issue parties. There are other types of Senator Crossin—We handed out bal- candidates and, of course, there are the more loons. bizarre ones. Senator BOSWELL—No, it had a pic- Senator Crossin—Talk to us about Tel- ture of your leader Latham on it but it was stra, Bozzie! directed at small business. You sat there like Senator BOSWELL—Don’t be a goose a big goose and handed out anti-Latham all your life, dear—you really are one. propaganda on the Labor Party stand. And if Senator Sherry—It takes a lot to get un- that isn’t embarrassing—you were sitting der your skin, Bozzie! there for 45 minutes handing out anti- Senator BOSWELL—No, she is not get- Latham— ting under my skin but anyone that would sit The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— at the showground and hand out anti-Latham Order! Senator Boswell, if you want to re- posters to people—they had a picture of sume your speech, you will address your Latham on them—is not really bright. remarks through the chair. Senator Sherry—Mr Acting Deputy Senator BOSWELL—I am happy to do President, I rise on a point of order. I want to so but I do seek protection. If I am provoked, ask whether that description by Senator I will retaliate. But if you want to keep order Boswell was in fact parliamentary. in the House then I suggest you talk to Sena- The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT tor Crossin. (Senator Watson)—Senator Boswell, if you The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— would not mind addressing your remarks Senator Boswell, the chair will make those through the chair, you will not run into these decisions. sorts of problems. Senator BOSWELL—Let me continue Senator BOSWELL—As I was saying, about the Citizens Electorate Council, be- there are a number of people that present cause they are already out there campaign- themselves to the electorate: the normal par- ing. I do not consider them a political party ties—the Labor Party, the Liberal Party and at all. They are more like a cult. These peo- The Nationals—the single issue candidates ple follow a person called Lyndon La- and the absolutely bizarre ones. Let me say Rouche, who was a candidate in the US that there are none more bizarre than the presidential elections of 1976, 1980, 1984, Citizens Electorate Council, which should be 1988, 1992, 1996 and 2000. He has certainly described not as a political party but more as been a trier in the American presidential a cult. stakes but he has been spectacularly unsuc-
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26081 cessful. But that has not stopped him coming The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT to Australia to establish the Citizens Elector- (Senator Watson)—Senator Boswell has ate Council as a political party. been provoked continually. Senator Crossin, About five or six years ago I was on a I ask you to allow the speaker to make his visit to America and by chance I opened a presentation. magazine at an airport—it was the American Senator Sherry—Mr Acting Deputy equivalent of the Australian Women’s President, I raise a point of order. The de- Weekly—and there was a two-page spread on scription used by Senator Boswell then was Lyndon LaRouche describing how he had unparliamentary and he should be asked to preyed on the vulnerable and the elderly. The withdraw it. tactic is to tell people that the world is under The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— threat from various types of businesspeople It was the result of an interjection. and various organisations and that only his Senator BOSWELL—I withdraw. To- party has the ability to save it. Older people night I had a ring from someone in North are vulnerable and can fall for this type of Queensland which has led to me presenting idea hook, line and sinker, and that is what it this speech. There is a CEC candidate run- showed in this American Women’s Weekly. ning in North Queensland in the seat of LaRouche served five years of a 15-year sen- Dawson who is already heavily advertising tence for defrauding the vulnerable, the gul- in the local media. I have had a look at the lible and the elderly. The LaRouchens decry Australian Electoral Commission returns for this and say it was nothing more than a po- 2002-03 and they show the total returns to litical trial, a politically motivated show trial, the CEC as $1,462,703, while their media a conspiracy to keep him out of the way. In group, CEC services, had $271,592. They are fact, it was straight-out fraud of the worst well financed and able to mount these cam- kind by preying on the most vulnerable—the paigns. elderly and the naive. Some of their more bizarre claims are that There are just as many vulnerable people the world is controlled by an oligopoly led in Australia who actually believe in the La- by the Queen and Prince Philip, who also Rouche type voodoo economics. They be- control the drug trade, and that the Ku Klux lieve they will actually do something for this Klan is controlled by the FBI. Mr Acting nation. Even in Australia, they prey on the Deputy President, you would think that no- elderly and naive with a prepared sales pitch one would be able to support claims like that. that the country is in terrible trouble and they Yet there are some people that are gullible have the answers—they can save it. They use and they do fall for it. high-pressure tactics to extract every dollar they can. The CEC mainly operates in rural I want to say this too. The CEC is totally Australia, and that is why I want to offer anti-Semitic—possibly even more so than some warning tonight. the League of Rights. Many people may have heard—I certainly have in rural Austra- Senator Crossin interjecting— lia—that Martin Bryant was set up as a patsy Senator BOSWELL—You want to shut at Port Arthur to bring more restrictive gun up. If you shut up, most people do not think laws into Australia. Those are things that go you are a fool. round and should be absolutely debunked in Senator Sherry—That is unparliamen- this parliament. The CEC publication regu- tary. larly features ludicrous and defamatory at-
CHAMBER 26082 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 tacks on Jewish organisations and leaders I do not know how people actually fall for such as Mark and Isi Leibler. They claim that this stuff. I believe the group is more of a the Australian defamation commission and cult than an actual political party. We have the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Coun- seen the CEC exposed on television on nu- cil are protecting the world’s financial oli- merous occasions, but still it gets out there. gopoly. In the past, the Leiblers have falsely The people who actually stand for seats are been accused of being part of illegal and brainwashed. They stand outside and solicit immoral activity, including having links to names on petitions. Let me say this: it de- the drug trade and pornography. Again, that serves absolutely no support from anyone in is a ludicrous claim. The CEC try to peddle the Australian electorate. their anti-Jewish propaganda in areas with Senate adjourned at 8.59 p.m. large Jewish populations. They distributed DOCUMENTS pamphlets outside Jewish community centres when the Premier of Victoria was addressing Tabling the Jewish community. The subject was ‘A The following government documents recent trip of Steve Bracks to Israel’. were tabled: The CEC get a very minor vote—around Productivity Commission—Reports— 0.05, 0.06 or 0.07 per cent. But it is a vote No. 29—Impacts of native vegetation they do not deserve. When you talk about and biodiversity regulations, 8 April Lyndon LaRouche and the CEC, it is where 2004. truth becomes stranger than fiction. (Exten- No. 31—Review of the gas access re- sion of time granted) I made reference to the gime, 11 June 2004. CEC being well financed and being able to Tabling support a political campaign. Already they The following documents were tabled by are running television ads, and the election the Clerk: has not even started. But we ought to explore some of their fundraising techniques. They Class Rulings CR 2004/81 and CR 2004/82. are taught by operatives from the LaRouche organisation in the USA and they raise most Family Assistance Legislation Amendment of their money through the use of younger (More Help for Families—One-off Pay- ments) Act—Family Assistance (One-off members. They start by cold calling very Payments to Families and Carers) Scheme vulnerable people, such as the elderly and 2004. the naive, with a prepared sales pitch and Product Ruling— then they really work on them. PR 2003/8 (Notice of Withdrawal). I know that we have a democracy and PR 2004/80. anyone is entitled to a stand in Australia. I support that. It is a free country and we have Social Security Act—Social Security (As- a democracy that allows everyone to stand surances of Support) Determination 2004. up and present themselves to the people. But Sydney Airport Curfew Act— I do say that, when organisations like this Dispensations granted under section 20— Dispensation No. 8/04 [2 dispensations]. present themselves, they should be exposed. They should be exposed for the fraud that they are.
CHAMBER Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26083
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE The following answers to questions were circulated:
Medicare: Bulk-billing (Question No. 2935) Senator Nettle asked the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 19 May 2004: With reference to the Government’s Medicare Plus package, in which it is stated an additional 1.8 mil- lion in services will be bulk-billed each year: (1) (a) What was the analytical procedure used to determine this figure; and (b) Can details be provided. (2) Does the analysis include the categorisation of what groups of people will have access to extra bulk-billed services; if so, can the categories and the breakdown of groups be provided. (3) Given the Rural, Remote and Metropolitan Areas classifications 1 and 2 are excluded, does the analysis include the percentage or number of Australians that will be able to access these extra bulk-billing services; if so, can these figures be provided. Senator Ian Campbell—The Minister for Health and Ageing has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: 1.8 million refers to the estimated number of additional bulk billed services that will attract the $7.50 incentive payments not the amount of money that will be spent on these services. (1) (a) Analysis was based on Medicare information for individual GP provider numbers for the cal- endar year 2003. For each individual provider number the number of additional bulk billed services resulting from the $7.50 incentive was calculated based on the assumption that for each provider, services previously patient charged would be bulk billed if the average patient charge for patient bulk billed services for that provider for services covered by the incentive was less than $7.50. This analysis provided an estimate of 1.8 million additional bulk billed services. (b) Aggregate data from this data set is contained in the table below. 2003 Calendar year RRMAs 3-7 + Hobart and surrounds Total services Bulk billed ser- Services for pro- vices viders with average charge < $7.50 Concession cardholders 14,108,125 8,974,893 1,222,714 Children under 16 not covered by 2,302,723 1,431,011 604,091 concession cards Cardholders + non concessional 16,410,848 10,405,904 1,826,805 Children (2) The analysis was based on Medicare information for individual provider numbers not patients. Ag- gregate data from services provided by individual doctor provider numbers has been supplied in re- sponse to the above question 1(b). (3) The data used in the modelling of this measure only pertains to the number of services that individ- ual GPs provide to certain categories not the number of people that a GP sees or that these services represent. In RRMAs 3-7, Hobart and surrounds for the calendar year 2003 approximately 16.4 million GP services were provided to Commonwealth Concession cardholders and children under
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 26084 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
16. This represents around 30% of all services provided to Commonwealth Concession card hold- ers and children under 16 Defence: Australian Defence Force Academy (Question No. 3011) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 15 June 2004: (1) What annual funding has the Commonwealth provided to the Australian Defence Force Academy (ADFA) in each of the past 5 financial years. (2) What is the projected Commonwealth budget allocation for ADFA for the 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006- 07, and 2007-08 financial years. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The costs provided are direct operating expenditure. They do not include accrual overheads such as compensation, ADF housing, ADF health and ADF removals. The following figures are, therefore, estimates derived from a snapshot of total accrual expenses in 2002-03. They are based on a nomi- nal increase of 3% per annum. 1999-2000 - $82.2m 2000-01 - $84.7m 2001-02 - $87.3m 2002-03 - $90.0m 2003-04 - $70.0m Note 1: The decrease in 2003-04 is attributable to the end of the capital use charge. The capital use charge only applied up to 2002-03 and, therefore, is not included in subsequent years. (2) 2004-05 - $72.1m 2005-06 - $74.3m 2006-07 - $76.5m 2007-08 - $78.8m Taxation: Goods and Services Tax (Question No. 3041) Senator Brown asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice, on 23 June 2004: (1) Are domestic generators of electricity that are connected to the grid charged the goods and services tax (GST) on their total consumption of electricity rather than their net consumption (that is, ex- cluding the quantity that they have generated themselves). (2) Does the above situation apply to all generators. (3) What is the justification for charging GST on electricity generated and consumed on the same premises. (4) In what other situations would consumption of a good or service created or provided by the person or organisation consuming it attract the GST. (5) What action will the Treasurer take to remove this impost. Senator Minchin—The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 10 August 2004 SENATE 26085
(1) (2) and (3) This depends on the terms of the contract between the parties and on the meters moni- toring the flow of electricity between them. It may be that there are two separate supplies: one being electricity supplied by the domestic generator and one being the electricity supplied by the retailer. Whether GST is payable on the supply by the domestic generator depends on whether the domestic generator is registered for GST. Generally, most domestic generators will not be regis- tered for GST and therefore their supply of electricity back to the retailer will not be subject to GST. In respect to the retailer’s electricity supply to the domestic generator, this will be a taxable supply and subject to GST. However, I am informed by the ATO that, in practice, there may be me- ters installed on the domestic generator’s premises that do not measure the two supplies separately. That is, the meter can only measure the net flow of electricity supplied (i.e. the electricity supplied to the domestic generator less the electricity they supply back). In such cases, therefore, the ATO allows the retailers to account/charge for GST on this net value. In other cases where meters are in- stalled that can measure the separate supplies, the ATO would expect GST to be calculated/charged on the total value supplied by the retailer. (4) Supplies that an entity makes to itself are outside the scope of the GST. For GST purposes, only supplies made to another entity are considered. (5) The Government has no plans to change the GST treatment applying to the supply of electricity. Defence: Conscription (Question No. 3058) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 5 July 2004: (1) Do bills currently before the United States of America House of Representatives (specifically, bills S 89 and HR 163) propose to reintroduce the military draft in 2005. (2) Can the Minister guarantee that conscription will not be reintroduced in Australia. (3) Has conscription been considered by the Minister or the department since 2002. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) It is not the practice of the Australian Government to interpret legislation currently being consid- ered by foreign governments. (2) The Australian Government does not intend to reintroduce conscription. (3) No. Environment: Grey Nurse Shark (Question No. 3063) Senator Allison asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Heritage, upon notice, on 7 July 2004: (1) When did the Government propose the establishment of a marine sanctuary at the Cod Grounds Grey Nurse Shark critical habitat site. (2) Since that date, what action has the Government taken to protect the site from the recognised key threat to the shark of line fishing. (3) Given that the Government to date has refused to list this, and other critical habitat sites identified in its recovery plan for the Grey Nurse Shark in Australia, on the register of critical habitat under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999, will the Government list the site on the register; if so, when; if not, why not. (4) With reference to the Government’s recovery plan for the Grey Nurse Shark which was published in 2002, can statistics be provided as to the current status of the species, and evidence of the recov- ery or further decline of the Grey Nurse Shark since the implementation of the plan.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 26086 SENATE Tuesday, 10 August 2004
Senator Ian Campbell—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The Government released a Discussion Paper on conservation options for the Grey Nurse Shark in the Cod Grounds area in March 2003, in which the option of a marine protected area was can- vassed. (2) The Government has proceeded with the option of a marine protected area. In December 2003, in accordance with subsections 351(1) and 351(2) of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 (EPBC Act), a notice was gazetted requesting public comment on the pro- posed proclamation of the Cod Grounds Marine Reserve. (3) The declaration and management of the Cod Grounds as a Marine Protected Area will provide se- cure legislative protection for the Grey Nurse Shark. In addition, through the development of a Plan of management, and the operation of the EPBC Act and its regulations, all activities affecting the area will be assessed, and managed, to protect Grey Nurse Sharks and their habitat. The declaration of the Cod Grounds as a Marine Protected Area does not exclude the possibility of including the Cod Grounds on the Register of Critical Habitat. However, the current priorities are to finalise the Marine Protected Area arrangements, and to focus on specific recovery actions that will improve the protection for the species. (4) No.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE