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Ideas in Progress, Episode 32, Academic Non-Academia with Nick Gillespie

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Ideas in Progress, Episode 32, Academic Non-Academia with Nick Gillespie Anthony Comegna (00:22): Oh my. Is this an exciting thing to say. This week on Ideas in Progress, Reason Magazine's, Nick Gillespie joins us. That's right. Do not adjust your sets. The Duke of Leather Jackets, the King of Weird Cultural References. And did you know this? A Ph.D. in English literature. Dr. Gillespie doesn't make a big deal about his degree, but I'm dying to know more about his time in academia. So here we are this week and next, it's Nick Gillespie on Ideas in Progress. All right, so Nick Gillespie, let's just start out with your how- I-became-an-academic story, because I listened to all the different Reason podcasts and a lot of other media with you in it and I'm not sure that I've ever actually heard you tell that story. Nick Gillespie (01:10): Are you joking? Because I feel like I talk about it all of the time, like to a point of embarrassment. Anthony Comegna (01:18): Well maybe I feel like I just haven't gotten a full enough explanation then. Nick Gillespie (01:22): Yeah, okay. Let's dial the clock back to 1985 which is when I graduated from Rutgers University, Rutgers College or Rutgers University with a B.A. in English and psychology. I worked as a journalist. I started out writing for some newspapers, stringing, freelancing and whatnot in New Jersey and in New York. I ended up lucking in through New York Times ads, when this was a thing, classified ads. I ended up getting jobs at a company that published teen magazines, movie magazines and music magazines. And I became a teen magazine editor and writer and a music journalist. I had always been into music and I was doing that for about three years. I would work, save money, go travel, come back, work, that type of thing. And there came a point in, I guess around 1988, where I was talking to a 10 year old teen star, who was going on about his latest project. And he said something along the lines of, "but what I really want to do is direct." Nick Gillespie (02:34): And I was like, okay, I got to get out of this world. This is killing me here. And I had also as an undergrad, but also as a young guy roaming around New York City mostly, I had written fiction, and I applied for graduate programs in creative writing, master's programs in creative writing. And I was accepted. Ultimately I took firm offers from, Oh God, I'm blanking on the name, it's the school in Boston that has a very good creative writing program and Jay Leno went to it, help me out here Anthony. Anthony Comegna (03:13): I have no idea. Nick Gillespie (03:16): Emerson, Emerson College. This is very good. You know, it's relatively early in the morning, but, so I was accepted at Emerson college and at Temple University in Philadelphia. And I had to push back my acceptance one year for a variety of reasons. And I ended up going to Temple University for an M.A. in English with a concentration in creative writing. Nick Gillespie (03:36): Institute for Humane Studios ©2020 Page 1 of 9 Ideas in Progress, Episode 32, Academic Non-Academia with Nick Gillespie And I will tell you, having worked for three years and I was reading voraciously, I had always been a big reader, but I loved reading, I loved commercial culture and I wanted to be creative. And when I got to Temple, which is generally considered a ... the Creative Writing Program was very highly regarded, the general school, not so much. But I had a two year experience there that absolutely lit my brain on fire. I worked with a series of academics in the literature program. I ended up taking all of the creative writing courses, but I took enough credits basically to have a Master's in literature as well. And they were people who were at the cutting edge of things like postmodernism. This was 1988, as well as a guy named Robert Storey who was one of the first academics to seriously apply evolutionary psychology and sociobiology as it was known then, to literary and cultural studies. Nick Gillespie (04:39): And it was the most exhilarating intellectual experience of my life up to that point and since that point, if I'm being fully honest. I met my future wife, who is also my future ex-wife, Catherine Gillespie, who now teaches at Chapman university. She's a full professor working in Vernon Smith's Economic Center out there, the Adam Smith Institute. We met at Temple and we ended up jointly deciding to go on for PhDs and we went to the State University of New York at Buffalo where I was particularly interested in working with Leslie Fiedler, Mark Schechner and a couple of other people who were American scholars, scholars of American literature. So I went to Buffalo and I went through my coursework there, which was also exhilarating and deep. Buffalo had a program at the time, and it's still known for this, but as a kind of mavericky English department. Nick Gillespie (05:39): Leslie Fiedler is a guy who died years ago, but who along with Harold Bloom is one of the very biggest names or biggest influences in American literary and cultural studies. And Fiedler was a wild man. He loved going out onto the margins of society and finding interesting writing, interesting people, interesting things going on and reporting back. He's the ... and I don't know how deep in the weeds this is for your listeners, Howard Bloom is very much of a canon builder. He's a guy who, he was based at Yale and he was very establishment. He both worked through the establishment and then tried to create his own establishment. This is great literature. This is the creation of the West. This is why Shakespeare is perfect. Fiedler was much more kind of scrounging around the margins and [inaudible 00:06:28] great writer, a great thinker. He's the guy that I wanted to work with more than anyone at Buffalo, and I got a chance to do that. Nick Gillespie (06:34): While I was working on my dissertation, I had about half of it done, I came to the realization, and now we're talking about 1993, and this was a period in which the concept and the reality of political correctness really came into the forefront. And I don't want to trivialize this or simplify it, but what political correctness really stood for in my understanding was a kind of politicization of the academy that I believe started with the election of George H W Bush in 1988. Academics lost their minds because they were convinced that Reagan was an anomaly and that the country would go back to some kind of vaguely civilized reasoning after this brief interregnum. And when Bush got elected, they just lost it and they became much more desperate to kind of proselytize to students at all levels that we are, we need to be more serious about kind of being left wing and progressive and we need to take our country back. You heard that all the time. Nick Gillespie (07:43): Institute for Humane Studios ©2020 Page 2 of 9 Ideas in Progress, Episode 32, Academic Non-Academia with Nick Gillespie So in any case with that as a backdrop, I realized I probably was not cut out for academia given my ideological leanings and my political and cultural leanings, which were very libertarian, very anti- conservative as well as anti left-wing. And I had always been reading Reason Magazine since I was in high school. My brother who also went to Rutgers, which is where Milton Friedman did his undergrad of all places, my brother discovered Reason in college and started mailing it back to me, and I read it and I subscribed to it from the time I was in high school through, till now I guess. And they advertised for an assistant editor job in their back pages. And I applied for that and got it. Nick Gillespie (08:33): And we moved. At the time I was married, my wife was pregnant with our first child, and we moved to LA for me to work at Reason while she finished her dissertation and had our child. And that's when I exited academia strictly. I'll come back to my intersections with it since then, which been profound. And my wife became a full-fledged tenure track academic and we can talk a little bit about where that took us. And then I finished my dissertation in 1996 on American literature in the 19th and 20th centuries. Anthony Comegna (09:12): Did you ever teach while you were in graduate school? Nick Gillespie (09:14): Yes, this is one of the things that I would say, and to be honest, I'm not sure how much it has changed, but I was told by everybody, and I come from a nonacademic background. I grew up lower middle class. My father didn't even graduate high school, much less college. My mother went to a business high school and was a bookkeeper who had trouble with long division.
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