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House of Commons Debates VOLUME 146 Ï NUMBER 165 Ï 1st SESSION Ï 41st PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Friday, October 19, 2012 Speaker: The Honourable Andrew Scheer CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) 11221 HOUSE OF COMMONS Friday, October 19, 2012 The House met at 10 a.m. terrorism and because it is an unnecessary and inappropriate infringement on Canadians' civil liberties. New Democrats believe that Bill S-7 violates the most basic civil liberties and human rights, specifically the right to remain silent and the right not to be Prayers imprisoned without first having a fair trial. According to these principles, the power of the state should never be used against an individual to force a person to testify against GOVERNMENT ORDERS himself or herself. However, the Supreme Court recognized the Ï (1005) constitutionality of hearings. We believe that the Criminal Code already contains the necessary provisions for investigating those who [English] are involved in criminal activity and for detaining anyone who may COMBATING TERRORISM ACT present an immediate threat to Canadians. The House resumed from October 17 consideration of the motion We believe that terrorism should not be fought with legislative that Bill S-7, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada measures, but rather with intelligence efforts and appropriate police Evidence Act and the Security of Information Act, be read the action. In that context one must ensure that the intelligence services second time and referred to a committee. and the police forces have the appropriate resources to do their jobs. Ms. Jean Crowder (Nanaimo—Cowichan, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I want to quote from Denis Barrette, a spokesperson from the I am rising today to speak to Bill S-7, An Act to amend the Criminal International Civil Liberties Monitoring Group, at the review by the Code, the Canada Evidence Act and the Security of Information Act. Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security on I want to state at the outset that New Democrats will be opposing the former Bill C-17, which was an earlier version of Bill S-7. Mr. bill. Barrette said: —the provisions dealing with investigative hearings and preventative arrests, Since 2001, we have had an opportunity to revise the bill, which which are intended to impose recognizances with conditions, are both dangerous was adopted in reaction to a particular event that sent people into a and misleading. Debate in Parliament on these issues must draw on a rational and state of panic. We have learned that there is actually no evidence to enlightened review of the anti-terrorism law. As we know, that legislation was support such legislation. When these provisions expired in 2007, we rushed through Parliament after 9/11 in a climate of fear and under very found that there had been no investigative hearing and no situation considerable pressure from the United States.... At this point in time, what is the real objective need for these two provisions? that required a recognizance with conditions. Since 2007, the From the time of their introduction in 2001 until their repeal in 2007, the only time investigative hearing has only been used once as part of the Air India they were used was in relation to the Air India case which, as you all know turned inquiry, but that led to no conclusive results. I am going to talk more out, sadly, to be a total fiasco. about that later. Since 2007, police investigations have succeeded in dismantling terrorist conspiracies using neither one of the provisions we are talking about today. Bill S-7 has four objectives. The first is to amend the Criminal Furthermore, since 2001—in other words, in the last 10 years—none of the Code to authorize investigative hearings and authorize the imposi- investigations that resulted in charges or convictions required the use of these extraordinary powers, whether we're talking about the Khawaja affair, the Toronto 18 tion of the recognizance with conditions or preventative arrest. or, more recently, the four individuals in the Toronto region.... Second is to amend the Canada Evidence Act to allow judges to We know as well that these provisions could, as we see it, be abused. I am order the public disclosure of potentially sensitive information on a thinking here of the Air India case. We believe that Canadians will be better served trial or an accused, once the appeal period has ended. The third is to and better protected under the usual provisions of the Criminal Code, rather than amend the Criminal Code to create new offences for those who have others that are completely unnecessary. Reliance on arbitrary powers and a lower standard of evidence can never replace good, effective police work. On the contrary, left the country or tried to leave the country to commit a terrorist act, these powers open the door to a denial of justice and a greater probability that the and finally, to amend the security of information to increase reputation of innocent individuals...will be tarnished. maximum sentences incurred for harbouring a person who committed or intended to commit a terrorist act. There are a number of concerns that have been raised with particular aspects of the legislation. It is important to note that I am going to focus on the investigative hearings and recognizance sometimes it also gives Canadians a false sense of security. Again, with conditions. I want to give some context here. New Democrats what we need is appropriate resources to ensure that these activities oppose the bill because it is an ineffective way of combatting are monitored and prosecuted where appropriate. 11222 COMMONS DEBATES October 19, 2012 Government Orders The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has a quote from the we operate from a paradigm that also disregards these objectives. If, as Canadians, Supreme Court of Canada on national security from 2002. we no longer shrink from the injustices of wrongful conviction; torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment; racial profiling; arbitrary detention; impunity; then The Supreme Court stated: what exactly are we protecting? On the one hand stands the manifest evil of terrorism and the random and I think that is a very good question, one that we need to ask arbitrary taking of innocent lives, rippling out in an ever-widening spiral of loss and fear. Governments, expressing the will of the governed, need the legal tools to...meet ourselves as parliamentarians and as Canadians. I think that most this challenge. Canadians would want to continue saying that we in Canada do protect those civil liberties, that right to due process. It goes on to say, however: On the other hand stands the need to ensure that those legal tools do not I want to put into context where the Conservative government has undermine values that are fundamental to our democratic society — liberty, the rule missed an opportunity because the review of the Anti-terrorism Act of law, and the principles of fundamental justice — values that lie at the heart of the was conducted over a number of years. Someone who did the Canadian constitutional order and the international instruments that Canada has signed. In the end, it would be a Pyrrhic victory if terrorism were defeated at the cost analysis on it pointed out that the review that was supposed to of sacrificing our commitment to those values. Parliament’s challenge is to draft laws happen at three years became the three-year review. that effectively combat terrorism and conform to the requirements of our Constitution (1010) and our international commitments. Ï Again, I think it is important that we balance the safety of In 2007, the subcommittee on the review of the Anti-terrorism Act Canadians and the need for Canada to play its role in combatting submitted a report. I want to quote from the minority report that was terrorism, domestically and internationally, with those civil liberty put forward by the member for Windsor—Tecumseh. I do not have rights. time to read the whole report but many Canadians probably have not read that report and I just want to highlight a couple of the points that In an op-ed referring to Canada and 9/11, which was originally come back to the challenges we are facing with this bill before us. published on September 6, 2011, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association stated: In that report, the members noted: Prior to the attacks, we demonstrated a high level of commitment to certain core Terrorism cannot be fought with legislation; it must be fought through the efforts values — rule of law, due process, equality, habeas corpus, presumption of of intelligence services combined with appropriate police action. innocence, and the absolute prohibition against torture. These values lay at the heart There is no act of terrorism that is not already a criminal offence punishable by of our Constitutional and international law obligations. the most stringent penalties under the Criminal Code. This is obviously the case for We knew, from contemporary history, that the absence of such legal protections pre-meditated, cold-blooded murders; however, it is also true of the destruction of resulted in societies where exceptional measures became the norm. Such societies major infrastructures. could devolve into accepting presumptions of guilt, secret trials, secret evidence, Moreover, when judges exercise their discretion during sentencing, they will extrajudicial execution, arbitrary detention, torture, even ethnic cleansing and consider the terrorists’ motive as an aggravating factor. They will find that the massacres. To prevent such devolution, Canadians knew that any incursion into civil potential for rehabilitation is very low, that the risk of recidivism is very high and that liberties must be legally and demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society; deterrence and denunciation are grounds for stiffer sentencing.