House of Commons Debates

VOLUME 148 ● NUMBER 233 ● 1st SESSION ● 42nd PARLIAMENT

OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD)

Thursday, November 9, 2017

Speaker: The Honourable CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) 15177

HOUSE OF COMMONS

Thursday, November 9, 2017

The House met at 10 a.m. personal greetings to all MPs today and especially to all of the veterans whom we have the collective honour and duty to represent as I say just a few words on behalf of Canada's Minister of Veterans Affairs. Prayer Across this country, millions of Canadians will soon be paying heartfelt tribute to veterans, Canadian Armed Forces members, and all the brave women and men who made the ultimate sacrifice in ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS defence of Canada over our nation's lifetime. ● (1005) [Translation] [Translation] We understand that our freedom, our prosperity, and the 2016-17 DEPARTMENTAL RESULTS opportunities available to all our children are possible because of Hon. Scott Brison (President of the Treasury Board, Lib.): Mr. their sacrifices and achievements. Speaker, on behalf of 84 departments and agencies, I have the [English] honour to present, in both official languages, the departmental results reports for the 2016-17 fiscal year. One of the ways Canadians recognize this is by wearing the red poppy in remembrance of those who fell in service. Another is by *** participating in commemorative events that will be taking place from [English] coast to coast to coast. Canadians are also visiting the Remember Them website and engaging in social media with the #canadar- GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS emembers. Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Some of us have had the incredibly moving experience of Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8) I have the honour to walking close to the footsteps of those who fought and those who table, in both official languages, the government's response to four died to preserve our rights and freedoms and our open, inclusive, petitions. generous, democratic Canadian way of life. It hits us powerfully when we walk up Vimy Ridge and touch that soaring monument or *** travel to Hill 70 or into the town of Ypres and under the arches of the JUSTICE FOR VICTIMS OF CORRUPT FOREIGN Menin Gate amidst all the names inscribed there of young Canadians OFFICIALS REGULATIONS who passed that way en route to Passchendaele 100 years ago. Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister A few miles away but a generation later there were bitter losses for of Foreign Affairs (Consular Affairs), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, pursuant Canadians at Dieppe, 75 years ago in August 1942, and then our to section 5 of the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials triumphant return to that same town two years later after the landings Act (Sergei Magnitsky Law), I have the honour to table, in both at Juno Beach and on our way to liberate Holland. official languages, copies of the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Regulations, which were made on November 2, On the other side of the world, what Canadian can stand without 2017, and for referral to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs huge emotion at the top of the steep hill that forms Sai Wan War and International Development. Cemetery in Hong Kong, and look down to the South China Sea across the rows of white headstones bedecked with red Maple Leaf *** flags? The same emotion overtakes Canadians at the Canadian REMEMBRANCE DAY Korean War Memorial Garden just below the hills northeast of Kapyong-gun in Korea. More recently, we can trace the footsteps of Hon. Ralph Goodale (Minister of Public Safety and Emer- brave Canadians through Kosovo and Afghanistan, and more than gency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as members know, the 50 other international missions since Korea, right up to today. Minister of Veterans Affairs was taken ill this past week, and he deeply regrets not being able to be in the House today for the solemn Skill, strength, courage, valour, selflessness, love of country, moments of remembrance that are a characteristic of our Parliament loyalty to comrades, faithfulness, service, sacrifice, these are the every year at this time. The minister asked me to extend his warmest qualities that Canadians in uniform have epitomized. 15178 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Routine Proceedings [Translation] [Translation] This year, we especially remember the Canadian Corps deployed to Europe in 1917. They faced unimaginable hardships and incurred Most importantly, join the country for two minutes of silence at 11 tens of thousands of losses on the western front, but emerged as an o’clock on November 11th to honour the memory of all who have elite force, victorious where others failed. served. ● (1010) [English] [English] Tomorrow, November 10, marks the 100th anniversary of the end On Remembrance Day, I will be in the hockey arena in Regina of the Battle of Passchendaele. In the ceremony of remembrance in with the Royal Canadian Legion. The stands will be filled. Soldiers, Belgium, a torchlight procession will go from the Canadian sailors, air personnel, cadets, Mounties, other police and peace Memorial to the Passchendaele church. officers, and community groups will march in formation, the bands will play, speeches will be given, prayers will be offered, wreaths [Translation] will be laid, and the Act of Remembrance will be performed. Then, Our colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of at the end, the veterans will parade across the arena floor, some in Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, is there wheelchairs, some with canes, some on their own. now. ● (1015) [English] The Minister of National Defence will be there tomorrow with a The entire place will rise, and the applause will be loud and long, Canadian Armed Forces contingent from the same units as fought in following their every step, saying “Thank you” to real-life heroes, that horrific battle, regimental representatives, the RCMP, actual and also to those who did not come home. veterans, youth, indigenous people, and the band of the Royal 22nd Regiment, the famous Van Doos. Canadian pride. [Translation] They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. Our government is committed to honouring and commemorating At the going down of the sun and in the morning our men and women in uniform from every era and every generation. We will remember them. [English] [Translation] That is why we were all very proud to sponsor the 2017 Invictus Games in Toronto, for injured, ill, and wounded military members Canada remembers. and veterans. Prince Harry was there, the Prime Minister, the former president and vice-president of the United States, the incumbent first [English] lady, and thousands of Canadians in the stands to cheer on the vets. These games demonstrated how far the dedication of these wounded warriors truly goes. Yes, they gained something from the Lest we forget. camaraderie and competition of the games, but we all gained so Mr. Phil McColeman (Brantford—Brant, CPC): Mr. Speaker, much more from their inspiration: to persevere in the face of on this, Canada's 150th year as a nation, I rise to honour the men and daunting obstacles. Honouring our women and men in uniform is a women who have served our country in uniform, past and present. privilege. During Veterans Week and on Remembrance Day, all Canadians are [Translation] called to express our gratitude and thanks to those who have answered the call of duty to preserve our freedom, human rights, We encourage all Canadians to remember and to express gratitude democracy, and rule of law. Their sacrifices have secured and and appreciation for veterans, the fallen and those who continue to preserved our way of life. serve. [English] We stand on the shoulders of the brave, loyal, courageous, and We should think of Canada's veterans and all those who gave their heroic men and women who have served in Canada's military. lives in service. Think of the current members of the Canadian Selflessly, around the world, in World War I, World War II, South Armed Forces across this country and around the world. Think of Africa, Korea, Rwanda, Bosnia, the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan, and men and women from every region of our country, every walk of in peacekeeping missions, Canadian men and women have bravely life, every ethnic, cultural, and religious background, from first stood their ground with uncommon courage. nations, Inuit, and Métis communities, francophones, and anglo- phones. We should think of all those who have put service before One hundred years ago, our nation found itself on the battlefields self and thank a veteran or a Canadian Armed Forces member when of the Great War at Ypres, the Somme, Passchendaele, Amiens, and we see them, ask about their stories, and listen carefully to what they Vimy. Our rock-ribbed, steadfast, determined, and brave troops have to say. showed the world what Canada was made of. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15179

Routine Proceedings George Harold, or Harry, Baker, member of Parliament for the But no words are enough for what you went through. riding of Brome, in Quebec, was one of them. Harry was one of 50 There is one promise I can give, The oath that I shall never break for as long as I live, members of Parliament and senators who enlisted to serve in the I will remember that we owe all to you, Great War, and Harry was the only one killed. He died in action at A person, a people, I never knew. Ypres, West Flanders, Belgium, on June 2, 1916. Today, and every I will remember. day since 1920, parliamentarians pass by the bronze statue of George Harold Baker in the foyer just outside the House of Commons. It is dedicated to one man but personifies a nation's loss and the spirit of those who served.

Prime Minister King made these comments at the dedication: Lest we forget. [The statue] is personal in character, it is also essentially symbolic.... It speaks of Canadians, approximately 600,000 in number who enlisted for service in the Great War, and above all of the more than 60,000 who gave their lives as the supreme sacrifice of this nation in the cause of the World's freedom. In my hometown of Brantford, Private Peter Alexander Balfour Ms. Irene Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP): Mr. Speak- was killed at Vimy. Described at his memorial as a home-loving man er, it is my privilege to rise in the House today on behalf of New who never sought strife of any kind and did not like war, he enlisted Democrats to honour the bravery and loyalty of the men and women at age 30 and responded to what he believed was his call of duty. He who have fought for the freedoms we cherish as Canadians. This left behind his wife and two young children. week we remember the service and sacrifice of all those who have From Six Nations of the Grand River territory, 18-year-old Private served. We remember those who put their lives on the line for our Isaac Clause, an indigenous soldier, was killed in the battle of country and did not return home, and we remember those who did Passchendaele on November 6, 1917. A telegram announcing the return but were forever changed. death of her son was delivered to his mother, Mrs. Aaron Clause, at their home at Sixty-Nine Corners, Ohsweken. These are but three of 1.7 million Canadians who have served our country over the last century. In the First and Second World Wars alone, 116,000 paid the ultimate price: losing their lives. Ordinary This year is a special year for Canada, as we mark 150 years of Canadians, from all walks of life, willing to face the horrors of war, Confederation. This year we also reflect on the anniversaries of regardless of the time or place where they served; this is our significant military events in our history. One hundred years ago, collective heritage. Unconditionally and in every respect, our 100,000 members of the Canadian Corps took part in the arduous freedom has been won by their blood and sacrifice. Battle of Passchendaele. In those dark and terrifying days of World War I, the allied forces launched an attack to take back Last Sunday, a Remembrance Day service was held at the Passchendaele, in the region of Flanders, in Belgium. The battle Mississaugas of the New Credit First Nation, where military was long and difficult, and the sacrifices were great. There were members of the territory were honoured. Anishinaabe songs and 4,000 Canadian soldiers killed and almost 12,000 wounded. prayers were offered in front of the traditional memorial built as a Canadian soldiers and their families paid a horrendous price for a sacred burial mound. The ceremony included reading the names of battle that was later known for this senseless slaughter. All four 97 Anishinaabe veterans, many who served and paid the ultimate divisions of the Canadian Corps took turns in the assault on the price in the Canadian and American Armed Forces. ridge. One battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, lost ● (1020) most of its junior officers in the first hour of the assault on October 30. In closing, I offer a poem read last Sunday and written by Stacey Laforme, chief of the Mississaugas of the New Credit First Nation. It is engraved on a memorial stone mounted in front of the sacred burial mound. It is called Remember.

To all those who have gone before, This year we also mark the 100th anniversary of Vimy Ridge. To all the people who have gone to war, Approximately, 100,000 Canadian soldiers participated in the battle, To the men and women who faced death, To those who will never draw breath, fighting valiantly to capture the ridge, marking a strategic turning To the mothers and fathers whose children gave all, point for the allies in the war. The success of the assault is To the husbands and wives whose mate answered the call, attributable to the careful preparation by the Canadians and the use To the children who faced life on their own, of the creeping barrage. The precise and timely use of aimed shellfire To everyone who talks to the name on a stone, No medal or ribbon can repay what we owe, forced the Germans to take cover while 15,000 Canadian troops The parade and applause are not enough, and we know. followed behind the barrage and eventually overran and captured enemy positions before the German troops were able to react. The How to thank someone for everything you have and everything you are? Without you, never could we have accomplished so much or come so far, price was heavy: 3,600 Canadians lost their lives, and 7,000 were I want to say thank you, injured. 15180 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Routine Proceedings In August 1942, 75 years ago, almost 5,000 Canadian soldiers ● (1030) took part in the daring pre-dawn landing at Dieppe, Puys, and [Translation] Pourville. The raid resulted in heavy losses. More than 900 Canadians lost their lives, and nearly 2,000 were taken prisoner. The Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House for the This summer, Canadians had the honour to be in Dieppe, along with hon. member for Terrebonne to say a few words? the minister, the staff of Veterans Affairs, and four Canadian veterans who landed on that beach 75 years ago. The people of Dieppe, Some hon. members: Yes. Pourville, Puys, and France have not forgotten the sacrifice of Canadians all those years ago. Our veterans marched proudly along The Speaker: The hon. member for Terrebonne. the town promenade to the applause and tears of the people who Mr. (Terrebonne, BQ): Mr. Speaker, this remain so grateful to them. I was taken by the fact that there was a weekend, on Remembrance Day, we all have a duty to honour those young French soldier, armed and in his fatigues, who looked to be who fought for their country. about 21, who wept openly when our veterans passed. “Duty” is a word that often comes up when we are talking about These battles left scars on the soldiers, families, and communities, troops that are currently deployed. Soldiers, officers, and non- scars that never healed and should never be forgotten. commissioned officers, we salute you and we offer our profound thanks for the sacrifices you make every day, here in Canada and We should also remember the people on the home front who abroad. We are proud of you, your loved ones are proud of you, and made incredible and important contributions to the war effort and in Quebec is proud to be represented by you all over the world. We are support of Canadian troops and personnel. Sadly, many are unknown forever indebted to you, and we have a duty as parliamentarians to to us, like the women in Stratford, Ontario, who worked in the rail remember. yard repairing the locomotives and railcars that took the supplies to the troops at the front during World War II. Most are remembered “Duty” is a word that these men and women understand better only in a photograph taken while they laboured for the war effort. than anyone. These individuals leave their family and friends behind, only to risk their lives in an attempt to help make the world a better Men and women continue to serve this country, and we would be place. remiss if we failed to recognize their contributions, their bravery and valour. They include those who served in the Korean War, during the “Duty” is a word that will always carry profound significance for Cold War, in peacekeeping missions around the world, and in the those who come home from the front lines forever changed, for those war in Afghanistan and those who serve here at home. whose scars serve as a constant reminder of what they have been through, and for those who will carry an unimaginable burden for the We must also recognize those who have served this country with rest of their days. honour, despite facing unique challenges to that service, including those from the LGBT community, indigenous people, and indivi- “Duty” is also a word that will always carry profound significance duals who have experienced military sexual trauma. We honour their for the families and descendants of our fallen soldiers. Those people service and their dedication to Canada. have paid the ultimate price so that others, both here and abroad, can live more peacefully, humanely, decently, and above all, democra- ● (1025) tically. Of course there are the families of serving members and veterans Let us not forget that the freedom we enjoy is not a gift, but a that welcome home family members forever scarred, and they legacy. It is the legacy of people just like us who accepted the fact support, advocate and care for their loved ones. that on any given day at any given moment they could lose their lives so that others could live theirs. On November 11, I invite all members of the House, as well as all Canadians, to honour the valour, devotion, and loyalty of the men I know that many of my colleagues in the House are veterans. and women who have served Canada. They deserve our ongoing More than anyone else, we have a duty to never forget the support and gratitude, and to be treated with the greatest respect. significance of the decisions that are made in the House. We have a duty to never forget that the choices that are made here have an It is essential that this week's reflections translate to concrete impact on our fellow citizens when it comes to national defence, or actions for tomorrow. The transition to civilian life can be difficult any other issue for that matter. We will never be able to erase the and can come with great and many challenges. The road to healing is image of fallen soldiers from our minds. We know what it means and not a seamless one. Thus, we must listen to our veterans and their we have a duty to carry their torch and to remind others of their families to ensure they receive the support, help, and recognition sacrifice. they need and deserve. We also have a duty to keep our colleagues in check at times if We must honour our sacred obligation to these brave men and ever a hint of cynicism should cloud their outlook and the common women. We shall always remember their courage and valour today good should cease to be the only motivation for their actions. and every day. We must make absolutely sure that we have lived up to the obligation we owe them. Our democracy came at a high cost. Lest we forget. I remember. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15181

Routine Proceedings [English] As we remember and honour all those who fought, who served, who died, who came home shattered, who came home only to later The Speaker: Does the House give its unanimous consent to the take their own lives, and all the horrors of war, our prayer is always hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands to add her words? for that name on the central tower of this building. Our prayer is Some hon. members: Agreed. always for peace. [Translation] ● (1035) Ms. (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): Mr. Speaker, [Translation] I thank all my colleagues this morning for this moment of remembrance. We will all be in our ridings on Remembrance Day The Speaker: I thank the hon. Minister of Public Safety and attending events with our communities. Emergency Preparedness, the hon. member for Brantford—Brant, the hon. member for London—Fanshawe, the hon. member for [English] Terrebonne, and the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands for their comments. As the hon. Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Prepared- ness has so beautifully conjured for us the event he will attend in his [English] riding, all of us will be at familiar places, our town centres and our cenotaphs, gathering with our veterans. As the minister reminded us, If the House would indulge me, I would like to add a word, sometimes we notice that someone we saw last year is no longer with although I can only guarantee that it will be far less eloquent than us. those who have preceded me.

One of the war veterans and heroes I have the privilege to know in On Saturday, I will be in Ottawa at the National War Monument my own community of Sidney is Charles “Chic” Goodman, who was for the ceremony. It will be the first time I will not be in my riding at one of the few Canadians to receive the medal of honour from the a cenotaph in many years. French government, the French Legion of Honour medal, for his role in D-Day. I just received a note from his wife, saying that he was On that morning, I will be thinking of my great-uncle, Private feeling fine but thought the march was too much for him this year. Walter Greene, from Cape Broyle, Newfoundland. He served in the She asked me if I could meet them later to have a cup of tea at the First World War, received the Distinguished Conduct Medal after naval club, which I will. serving at Gallipoli, was injured in France, was out for a year, then went back and was killed in the First World War. It of course affected I have come to know a wonderful gentleman named Ken Curry, my grandmother throughout her life. I never knew him as a result of who fought at Dieppe. Ken was too young to enrol in the military that. and lied about his age. When it came time to be sent overseas, he needed a note from his mother. He went to Dieppe and as the carnage I say this, certainly not because I can attach myself to his valour or occurred all around him, he wondered why he had asked his mother to his self-sacrifice, because that would be entirely wrong. However, to send that note. I have great admiration for what he did and what so many Canadians did in self-sacrifice, and for all those Canadians who have served our So many brave men and women continue to go into dangerous country for so many years. places to protect that community centre, that cenotaph, that village, that place they know. Increasingly, Canadians are called to go to *** places where the connection between our safety and security at home and the dangerous places they go, whether in Afghanistan or ● (1040) elsewhere, have been more tenuous. COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE My thoughts turn today to Trevor Greene, who now lives in Nanaimo. He was the Canadian officer who, in a show of respect, in CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION meeting with elders in the Taliban, took off his helmet and was Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, further to attacked from behind with an axe. Trevor Greene struggles every day Motion No. 39, proposed by the member for Fundy Royal and and fights every day to walk again. He has enormous courage and adopted by the House, I now have the honour to present, in both always says that he wishes that when he first enrolled, he could have official languages, the 14th report from the Standing Committee on worn the blue beret. He sees his role as someone who defends Citizenship and Immigration, entitled “Immigration to Atlantic Canada, as someone who wants to make and keep the peace. Canada: Moving to the Future”. In that spirit, I want to remind all members that this building was I would like to thank all members of the committee for their hard built after one of the most devastating of wars, the First World War, work and all members, especially those from Atlantic Canada, who which took so many young lives. It was supposed to be the war to came to our meetings, observed, and participated in the testimony. end all wars. In that moment of armistice, the initial thought for Parliament, as it was being rebuilt after the fire, was that the central [Translation] architectural feature, the tower, be called the war tower. Then members changed their minds and decided it should be called the Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests that the Peace Tower. government table a comprehensive response to this report. 15182 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Routine Proceedings [English] [English]

PETITIONS TAXATION

THE ENVIRONMENT Mrs. (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition signed by residents of Mr. Richard Cannings (South Okanagan—West Kootenay, and visitors to the beautiful, scenic riding of Renfrew—Nipissing— NDP): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition from over 100 Pembroke. The petitioners call on the government to ensure that young Canadians from my riding of South Okanagan—West campgrounds with fewer than five full-time, year-round employees Kootenay and also the adjacent neighbouring riding of Kootenay be recognized and taxed as small businesses. —Columbia. THE ENVIRONMENT These young Canadians point out that Canada has endorsed the Paris agreement on climate action. Canada has current greenhouse Ms. Irene Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP): Mr. Speak- gas reduction targets that are not consistent with those of the Paris er, I have a petition from a number of Londoners who are concerned agreement. about and wish to protect the Thames River system. As you will recall, Mr. Speaker, the Conservative government stripped environ- The petitioners ask the government to take meaningful steps to mental regulations covered in the navigable waters act, leaving support the future of young Canadians and fulfill Canada's hundreds of rivers, streams, and lakes very vulnerable. The Thames obligations under the Paris agreement by adopting a detailed climate is a unique heritage river, with many species at risk along its banks change action strategy that includes science-based targets for and in its waters. greenhouse gas reductions with a plan to meet them, including, but not limited to, eliminating fossil fuel subsidies, implementing a Unfortunately, the Liberal government has failed to keep its comprehensive and steadily rising national carbon price beyond promise to reinstate the environmental protections gutted from the 2022 that rises to $150 per tonne by 2030, and redirecting original act, so these petitioners call upon the investments into renewable energy systems, energy efficiency, to support my bill, Bill C-355, which commits the government to low-carbon transportation, and job training. prioritizing and protecting the Thames River by amending the Navigation Protection Act. TAXATION ● (1045) Mr. (Calgary Confederation, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present several petitions today from people in and TAXATION around Calgary. These petitions were submitted by Dr. Robert Melof and Dr. Michael Mah. Ms. (Sarnia—Lambton, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition today related to the proposed tax These physicians are concerned about recently proposed tax changes by the finance minister affecting private corporations changes and the impact it will have on their ability to provide quality operating in Canada. The list of people from my riding includes health care. I have heard from many medical practitioners who are doctors, farmers, and small business owners. They are calling on the concerned. Many have signed these petitions. Minister of Finance to cancel the proposed tax increases and to honour the Liberals' election promise to lower the overall small The petitioners ask the government to abandon its proposed tax business tax rate. changes, so Canada's medical community can continue to invest in quality care. [Translation] [Translation] FOOD

ALGOMA CENTRAL PASSENGER TRAIN Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I want to present two petitions calling for a pan-Canadian Mrs. Carol Hughes (Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, food strategy. Food is a basic need, and unfortunately Canada does NDP): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition to the not have a food strategy. The petitioners are therefore calling on the Minister of Transport. government to implement such a strategy, which will help Canadians to stay healthy, eat fresh local food, and enjoy all of our country's The petitioners continue to be concerned about the fact that the delicious flavours. Algoma Central passenger train is still not back in service. They are saying that this is having a growing negative impact on the region's THE ENVIRONMENT economy and that there is no other safe and reliable alternative that gives them access to their homes and businesses. The petitioners are Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): Mr. Speaker, asking the Minister of Transport to promise to help put the passenger I have three petitions to present so I will do my best to present them train back in service. quickly and effectively.

The petitioners are from Sault Ste. Marie, Desbarats, Aweres, The first petition has to do with marine protected areas from coast Searchmont, Mindemoya, Goulais River, and Michigan. to coast to coast. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15183

Routine Proceedings [English] [English]

The petitioners ask for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER work with other branches to improve the creation of marine protected areas. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): HOUSING Mr. Speaker, the following questions will be answered today: Nos. Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): Mr. Speaker, 1189, 1191, 1193, 1197, and 1208. the second petition is from many residents of Saanich—Gulf Islands. [Text] It calls on the Government of Canada to move forward with a national affordable housing program. They note the plan of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities in this regard. Question No. 1189—Mr. :

THE ENVIRONMENT With regard to government contributions to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), since January 1, 2016: Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): Mr. Speaker, (a) what are the details of each contribution to the program, including the (i) date, (ii) amount; and (b) what specific safeguards are in place to ensure that contributions are the third petition calls for a national strategy for environmental not being used for radicalization or by Hamas? education. It also comes from residents throughout Saanich—Gulf Islands. Although they recognize that education is largely a Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of International Devel- provincial responsibility, these petitioners see a role to play for a opment and La Francophonie, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, with regard national strategy to encourage environmental education. to part (a), since January 1, 2016, there have been four payments [Translation] from the Government of Canada to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA. ELECTION LAWS The first is providing basic education, health and social services to Palestinian refugees 2016. The funding instrument was signed on Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I November 1, 2016 in the amount of $20 million Canadian. The would ask your indulgence because I also have three petitions to second is Syria crisis – emergency assistance to Palestinian refugees present. in Syria and Lebanon 2016. The funding instrument was signed on November 10, 2016 in the amount of $5 million Canadian. The third [English] is providing basic education, health and social services to Palestinian refugees 2017. The funding instrument was signed on August 23, The first petition is from citizens of Ontario. It is an electronic 2017 in the amount of $20 million Canadian. The fourth is Syria petition. It was signed by 703,086 Canadians from across the crisis – emergency assistance for Palestinian refugees in Syria and country. They state that there is currently no election law at the Lebanon 2017. The funding instrument was signed on September 18, federal level that allows elected politicians to be removed from 2017 in the amount of $5 million Canadian. Parliament, so the petitioners are calling on the House of Commons and Parliament as a whole to pass a bill that allows for recall referendums. With regard to part (b), the Government of Canada does not tolerate any misuse or diversion of assistance to support terrorism. [Translation] Accountability and safeguards are central to the management of Canada's development and humanitarian assistance in the West Bank FALUN GONG and Gaza. Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the second petition has to do with a Falun Gong practitioner who is Canada exercises enhanced due diligence for all international imprisoned in China. She is a Canadian citizen. The petitioners are assistance funding for Palestinians, including funding for UNRWA. asking the Government of Canada to condemn this individual's arrest This includes strong anti-terrorism provisions in funding agreements, in China and to call for her immediate and unconditional release. She ongoing oversight, regular site visits, and a systematic screening is a Canadian citizen and deserves to be properly represented by our process. All programming and funding mechanisms are thoroughly government abroad. examined to be consistent with Canadian values and to meet the highest standards of transparency and accountability. TAXATION

Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Furthermore, Global Affairs Canada officials based across the last petition was signed by hundreds of people from Sherbrooke this region play a key role in ensuring ongoing oversight on program- summer and concerns the fight against tax havens. ming. On a near-daily basis, Canadian representatives are in contact with UNRWA in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank, and Gaza It calls on the government to acknowledge this increasingly to ensure that UNRWA is addressing issues of concern for pervasive and significant phenomenon. It asks the government above Canadians. Regular visits are conducted to UNRWA schools, health all to take steps to actively fight tax evasion and to put an end to centres, and other facilities to ensure that they are used only for their amnesty deals such as the one in the KPMG affair. intended purposes. 15184 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Routine Proceedings In addition to the enhanced due diligence processes, Canada and targeting unfair advantages that largely benefit the wealthiest of UNRWA have agreed to a framework for co-operation that outlines Canadians. shared commitments and Canada's expectations regarding the implementation of UNRWA's reform initiatives, regular monitoring and reporting, and compliance with Canadian anti-terrorism Officials in the department, notably in tax policy branch, have requirements. been engaging with stakeholders in developing the proposals. The department does not track phone calls placed to the minister. No Canada also supports UNRWA in its ongoing efforts to improve request for additional resources has been made. neutrality within the agency and its operations. Canadian funding will allow UNRWA to engage a neutrality coordinator to monitor activities related to neutrality, lead the development of neutrality Question No. 1193—Mr. : initiatives, respond to allegations of neutrality violations, and uphold UNRWA’s neutrality. This assistance builds on Canadian funding in 2016 to 2017 that provided social media neutrality training to more With regard to the Atlantic Fisheries Fund, since November 4, 2015: (a) what are than 3,000 UNRWA staff with managerial and supervisory the details of all grants and contributions made from the fund, including for each the responsibilities. (i) recipient, (ii) amount, (iii) project description, (iv) type of contribution (repayable grant, loan, etc.), (v) location of recipient, including municipality and province; (b) what is the total amount which has been paid out from the fund, broken down by As an engaged member of UNRWA’s advisory commission, province; and (c) for all grants and contributions from the fund which were paid out Canada works with UNRWA and other donors to advance ongoing to a recipient outside of Atlantic Canada, what is the rationale for how that recipient reforms related to governance, effectiveness, monitoring, and qualified for the Atlantic Fisheries Fund? financial administration. Canada’s active participation on UNRWA’s advisory commission provides an opportunity for oversight, influence, and engagement on key issues. Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary for Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, Lib.): Mr. UNRWA receives widespread support from the international Speaker, no grants or contributions were made from the Atlantic community and Canada’s like-minded friends and allies, including fisheries fund between November 4, 2015 and September 26, 2017. significant funding from the United States and all other G7 countries. Canada works together with UNRWA and other donors to ensure that assistance goes towards its intended purpose. Question No. 1197—Mr. Erin Weir: Question No. 1191—Mr. John Barlow: With regard to Section 810.1 and 810.2 Orders under the Criminal Code of With regard to the Minister of Finance's promise of September 18, 2017, to return Canada: (a) how many Section 810.1 Orders were requested in each of 2014, 2015, the phone calls of Canadians wishing to discuss the government’s consultation paper and 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) , (iv) Manitoba, (v) titled “Tax Planning Using Private Corporations”:(a) how many people have Ontario; (b) how many Section 810.2 Orders were requested in each of 2014, 2015, requested callbacks; (b) how many calls has the Minister returned; (c) how many and 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) calls does the Minister anticipate returning by the consultation closing date of Ontario; (c) how many Section 810.1 Orders were granted in each of 2014, 2015, and October 2, 2017; (d) how many calls does the Minister anticipate returning by 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) December 31, 2017; (e) for all requests made in (a), how is the Minister being Ontario; (d) how many Section 810.2 Orders were granted in each of 2014, 2015, and informed of the requests; (f) for each person in (a), what is their (i) title, (ii) field of 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) work, (iii) province; (g) for each person in (b), what is their (i) title, (ii) field of work, Ontario; (e) what number and percentage of all individuals convicted of sexual (iii) province; (h) how many government officials from the Department of Finance assault and due to be released from their sentence for sexual assault were placed on have been assigned to receive requests for callbacks from the Minister, and what is one or both of Section 810.1 and Section 810.2 Orders during 2014, 2015, and 2016 their position or title; (i) how many Ministerial exempt, or other political staff have in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) Ontario; been assigned to receive requests for callbacks from the Minister, and what is their (f) what number and percentage of individuals subject to one or both of Section 810.1 position or title; (j) has the Department of Finance requested additional resources to and Section 810.2 Orders were charged with breaches of these Orders in 2014, 2015, handle requests for callbacks and, if so, what is the cost of these resources; and (k) and 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) what is the itemized breakdown of any costs referred to in (j)? Ontario; (g) what number and percentage of individuals subject to one or both of Section 810.1 and Section 810.2 Orders were convicted of breaches of those Orders Mr. Joël Lightbound (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister in 2014, 2015, and 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in July 2017, the government Manitoba, (v) Ontario; (h) for individuals convicted of breaches of one or both released a consultation paper with proposals to address tax planning Section 810.1 and Section 810.2 Orders, how much was the average, maximum, and strategies using private corporations. Over the course of the minimum jail time extension past the original sentence release date, considering all breaches of Section 810.1 and Section 810.2 Orders in 2014, 2015, and 2016 in (i) consultation, many Canadians indicated their support for these British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) Ontario; (i) proposals, but also raised significant concerns and areas where what number of individuals on one or both Section 810.1 and Section 810.2 Orders improvements were required. Over 21,000 written submissions were reoffended substantively (meaning an offence in the category targeted by the Order, i. received by the Department of Finance Canada. e. a sexual offence or serious personal injury offence) in the duration of the Order in 2014, 2015, and 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) Ontario; (j) what number of individuals on one or both Section 810.1 Canadians were engaged through town halls and round tables and Section 810.2 Orders were subsequently placed on Dangerous Offender or Long from coast to coast to coast. Ministers and members of Parliament Term Offender Orders in 2014, 2015, and 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, heard and carefully considered the views and perspectives of small (iii) Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) Ontario; and (k) what number of individuals business owners, farmers, fishers, professionals, and experts. The previously subject to one or both of Section 810.1 and Section 810.2 Orders were subsequently placed on another one or both of Section 810.1 and Section 810.2 government is committed to addressing unintended consequences. Orders in 2014, 2015, and 2016 in (i) British Columbia, (ii) Alberta, (iii) Its focus is on strengthening middle-class small businesses, while Saskatchewan, (iv) Manitoba, (v) Ontario? November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15185

Routine Proceedings Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould (Minister of Justice and Attorney whether a particular product is subject to anti-dumping and General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, federal departments, countervailing duties. including Justice Canada, and agencies do not track section 810.1 and 810.2 orders requested. Question No. 1208—Ms. Tracey Ramsey: The measures include providing the CBSA with new tools to use What protections have been put into place by the government to ensure foreign alternative methodologies for calculating margins of dumping where steel dumping does not occur in Canada? price distortions in the country of export render those prices Mr. Joël Lightbound (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister unreliable. of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, Canadian producers harmed by unfairly traded, i.e., dumped or subsidized, imports may seek to have anti-dumping and countervailing duties applied to offset the injury The measures include providing unions the right to participate in caused by these imports. In accordance with the Special Import trade remedy investigations. Measures Act, SIMA, duties can only be imposed following independent, impartial, and transparent investigations conducted by the Canada Border Services Agency, CBSA, and the Canadian International Trade Tribunal, which determine whether imports were The legislative amendments to SIMA required to implement these dumped or subsidized, and whether such imports injured Canadian measures received royal assent on June 22, 2017, as part of Bill producers. C-44, Budget Implementation Act, 2017, No. 1. The government is working expeditiously on the regulatory amendments that are The steel industry regularly uses Canada’s trade remedy system to required to operationalize these new tools. Moving forward, the address dumped and subsidized imports. As of October 2017, government will continue to work closely with Canadian industry in Canada has 69 trade remedy measures in force that apply to 15 responding to the challenges of unfair trade. different steel products originating from 23 countries. The largest proportion of these measures concern imports from China. In all of the measures on primary steel from China, anti-dumping margins were calculated on a non market economy basis, to account for price The challenges of steel dumping and the underlying issue of distortions in that sector. global steel excess capacity are addressed in the House of Commons Standing Committee on International Trade, CIIT, report entitled The government is committed to ensuring that Canadian “The Canadian Steel Industry’s Ability to Compete Internationally”, producers injured by unfair trade have adequate remedies under which was tabled on June 15, 2017. The CIIT report contains a domestic law, while ensuring consistency with Canada’s interna- number of recommendations to improve Canada’s trade remedy tional trade obligations under the World Trade Organization, WTO. system and address the underlying problem of global steel excess Since budget 2016, the government has taken steps to modernize and capacity. The government tabled a detailed response to the CIIT strengthen Canada’s trade remedy system to provide Canadian report on October 17, 2017. producers with a more rigorous response to unfair trade and better align Canada’s trade remedy system with those of our major trading partners. *** In budget 2016, the government amended SIMA to extend the duration of anti-dumping and countervailing duties by up to eight months before being reviewed and to allow trade remedy [English] investigations to continue to their final phase even if the margins of dumping found at the preliminary stage are insignificant. The government also committed to undertake public consultations on QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS further measures to improve and enhance Canada’s trade remedy system. Following these consultations, the government announced in Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the budget 2017 additional measures that would improve the transpar- Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): ency of Canada’s trade remedy system and strengthen enforcement Mr. Speaker, if the government responses to Questions Nos. 1188, of trade remedy measures. 1190, 1194, and 1199, as well as starred Question No. 1224, could be made orders for return, these returns would be tabled These measures include creating a new anti-circumvention immediately. proceeding that would allow the CBSA to investigate allegations that anti-dumping and countervailing duties are being circumvented and, where warranted, to extend duties to address the circumvention. The Speaker: Is that agreed? The measures include creating a new scope proceeding that would establish a transparent process to allow interested parties, including domestic producers, to request a binding and appealable ruling as to Some hon. members: Agreed. 15186 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders [Text] [English]

Question No. 1188— Ms. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining With regard to funding applications from dairy producers submitted to the Dairy questions be allowed to stand at this time. Farm Investment Program (DFIP) during the first application window, which ended August 29, 2017: (a) what is the total number of applications received from ● (1050) producers, broken down by (i) province and territory, (ii) applications approved per province and territory, (iii) applications rejected per province and territory, (iv) The Speaker: Is that agreed? applications put on a waiting list per province and territory; (b) how many applications for large investment projects have been received, broken down by (i) province and territory, (ii) applications approved per province and territory, (iii) Some hon. members: Agreed. applications rejected per province and territory, (iv) applications put on a waiting list per province and territory; (c) how many applications for small investment projects The Speaker: I wish to inform the House that, because of the were received, broken down by (i) province and territory, (ii) applications approved ministerial statements, government orders will be extended by 32 per province and territory, (iii) applications rejected per province and territory, (iv) applications put on a waiting list per province and territory; (d) how much of the total minutes. $250 million in DFIP funding has been allocated, broken down by (i) large investment project, (ii) small investment project, (iii) province and territory; (e) what is the total value of funding applications that were rejected, broken down by (i) large investment project, (ii) small investment project, (iii) province and territory; and (f) how much of the total amount has already been allocated to Quebec producers, broken down by (i) large investment project, (ii) small investment project? GOVERNMENT ORDERS

(Return tabled) [English]

Question No. 1190—Mr. Peter Kent: YUKON ENVIRONMENTAL AND SOCIO-ECONOMIC With regard to the protection of Canadian journalists working abroad: (a) has the ASSESSMENT ACT Canadian government raised any concerns with the Chinese government regarding freedom of the press in China following the detention of Globe and Mail journalist The House resumed from October 26 consideration of the motion Nathan VanderKlippe; (b) if the answer to (a) is affirmative, what are the details, including (i) the date, (ii) who raised the concerns, (iii) with whom, within the that Bill C-17, An Act to amend the Yukon Environmental and Chinese government, were the concerns raised; and (c) what response, if any, has Socio-economic Assessment Act and to make a consequential been received by the Canadian government in response to any concerns raised? amendment to another Act, be read the third time and passed.

(Return tabled) Mr. Kevin Waugh (—Grasswood, CPC): Mr. Speak- er, it is my pleasure to rise today to talk about Bill C-17, an act to Question No. 1194—Mr. : amend the Yukon Environmental and Socio-economic Assessment With regard to correspondence received by the Minister of Finance from Liberal Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act. To be Members of Parliament in relation to the proposed tax changes which were honest, this bill is regressive. It reverses several positive steps taken announced on July 18, 2017: what are the details of all such correspondence, by the former Conservative government in Bill S-6 in 2015. It is a including for each piece the (i) date, (ii) Member’s riding, (iii) title, (iv) date response poorly conceived piece of legislation that, if passed, will gain votes was sent by the Minister of Finance, if applicable, (v) file numbers? in the southern part of this country at the expense of northern (Return tabled) Canada.

Question No. 1199—Mr. : on October 3, the Standing Committee on Indigenous and With regard to the legal settlement paid to Omar Khadr: (a) on which date was Northern Affairs heard testimony by Mr. Brad Thrall, the president the settlement between the parties signed; (b) what was the date of the settlement’s of Alexco Resource Corp. He summed up the problem up best, in payment; (c) what is the average processing time between the settlement and the stating: payment regarding out-of-court settlements paid by the government; (d) were there any orders given to expedite the payment to Omar Khadr; and (e) if the answer to (d) ...I'm urging deferral of Bill C-17's passage until all affected and interested parties is affirmative, who gave the order can deliberate, and mutually determine language to preserve the reassessment and timeline provisions currently within the Yukon Environmental and Socio- (Return tabled) economic Assessment Act. Repeal of the reassessment and timeline provisions, as anticipated in Bill C-17, without replacement language ready to go, will *Question No. 1224— Mr. : perpetuate economic uncertainty, and will negatively impact the competitiveness of Yukon, and will diminish economic and social opportunities for all Yukoners. With regard to the tendering and construction of a new fire hall in Grasslands National Park: (a) what are the details of the tender, including (i) criteria, (ii) amount of the winning bid, (iii) winning firm, (iv) number of bidders; (b) what are the details Why would we want to pass legislation that would diminish of the construction of the new fire hall, including (i) total budget, (ii) construction economic and social opportunities, especially in the north? The start date, (iii) expected completion date; (iv) overall construction budget; and (c) population of Yukon, according to the last census in 2016, was just what are the details of any government expenditures in relation to the new fire hall, under 36,000 people. It is a small jurisdiction. Therefore, we can with the exception of the tendered payment to the winning bidder referred to in (a), including (i) date, (ii) vendor or recipient, (iii) description of goods or services understand how the benefits and opportunities of one operation can provided? have tremendous benefits for first nations and all Yukon residents in terms of tax dollars, health care, education, employment, and benefit (Return tabled) agreements. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15187

Government Orders The mining industry contributes 20% of Yukon's GDP and Bill The absence of a reassessment provision not only negatively affects proponents, C-17 would immediately increase the regulatory burden on project but places a strain on the financial and human resources of publicly funded assessors and governments as well. proponents. It would slow down the review process by increasing the number of projects that need to be reviewed and remove the timeline Another very recent example from a Yukon mine ramping up to production for approval. Mining representatives testified that over the past eight revealed that in these last few months when Bill C-17 has been making its way years, the time period required to deem project proposals adequate through Parliament, the company was once again subjected to an expensive, time- consuming, and ultimately unnecessary reassessment. In this case YESAB ultimately was increased more than fivefold. Removing the timelines put in by determined that reassessment and any further mitigation beyond the original the former Conservative government would damage proponent and assessment were not required. Yet despite this relatively favourable outcome, the industry confidence in the regulatory regime and cause companies to process that led to it still consumed considerable resources from the company and the take their investments elsewhere. It is already happening in this YESAB assessment office. country. He means there were more delays. The Prospectors & Developers Association told us that it has definitely seen a decline in investment in Canada in the past two It resulted in a missed season of work for the company [up north], where those years. If members do not believe me, they only need look at what financial and human resources could have been put to far better use employing Shell did with the Carmon Creek project in Alberta, an investment of citizens of the affected first nation and the community where it operates. roughly $2 billion. Shell sold its assets in Carmon Creek while going As I mentioned previously, since section 49.1 was enacted in 2015, over 100 to Europe, citing a more stable investment regime there compared to projects have applied for exemption from reassessment. These were not only mining Canada. This was a major opportunity lost not only for the people of proponents, but municipalities as well. The City of Whitehorse, a major employer in Alberta but the people of Canada and northern Alberta. our territory's capital, received this determination under section 49.1 for one of its permanent renewals: Mr. Thrall went on to testify at committee on October 3 as follows: “The project has been assessed once by YESAB in 2013. Since that time, the only changes in relation to the project were minor and regulatory in nature. There have The current legislation allows proponents of certain projects to apply to the been no significant changes to the project and therefore an assessment is not decision body, usually Yukon or first nation governments, under section 49.1, to required.”... allow a project to proceed without the need for reassessment. This allows previously assessed projects to proceed to the authorization process without duplication. It has been suggested, given the number of Yukon's economic sectors that have benefited from this reassessment provision, including industry and municipalities, As we all know, the reality of mining is that during the process, that removing it before its replacement is in position is like ripping the roof off your new ore bodies or extensions to them may be identified. These house before you've decided what to replace it with and leaving [in this case] discoveries may require slight modifications to mine operating plans Yukoners out in [the cold and] the rain [and the snow] in the process. under the current legislation, but the resulting modifications would generally not require a complete project-wide reassessment. ● (1100) ● (1055) Yukon's mining industry is modern, responsible, and innovative. It is a partner at the forefront of research and relationships that balance economic, social, cultural, and However, if Bill C-17 is passed, they would, even though there is environmental values. It and its supporting service and supply companies are our no significant environmental or socioeconomic impact and no territory's largest private sector employers. It contributes [as I mentioned] 20% to our GDP, a significant number in a small developing jurisdiction [of just under 36,000] change in the production stream. otherwise dominated by the public sector.

Mr. Thrall went on, continuing on October 3: The mineral industry is committed to working with all orders of government to On the environmental side of our business, we were required to go back through provide opportunities that allow Yukoners to grow up in the territory, study and train an entire environmental assessment to maintain a water licence to extend the in the territory, and pursue rewarding and well-paying private sector jobs and careers. operating period for various water treatment facilities. Ironically, these same facilities were mitigating historic environmental liability, but this simple extension required 134 days of YESAB's time to assess the entire project yet again. Please understand In closing, Mr. Smith added at that October 3 meeting: that we firmly support a rigorous environmental assessment process for the Yukon, for new projects and when fundamental changes are made to existing projects. In conclusion, Madam Chair and committee members, the Yukon Producers However, small changes to a mine plan or to environmental facilities should not Group proposes that a committee of interested and affected government and industry require a “back to square one” assessment. If set back to the previous legislation, parties be struck to work on replacement for the reassessment and timelines uncertainty will prevail, and investment, jobs, benefits, and opportunities for provisions and provide its recommendations for this replacement before Bill C-17 residents and communities will be compromised. receives royal assent.

This is just another example of the Liberals making promises If replacement provisions are not in place beforehand, industry, municipalities, without thinking of consequences. The Liberals could have worked and all Yukoners will suffer. to find a solution, addressing everyone's concerns, rather than rushing forward and choosing to handicap Yukon's development for Mr. Burke, the president of the Yukon Chamber of Mines, told us years to come, possibly even decades. the following on October 3:

Mr. Jonas Smith, the project manager of Yukon Producers Group, I would like to draw your attention to Minister Bennett's commitment in a letter to gave compelling testimony to our indigenous affairs committee on the Yukon Chamber of Mines dated July 6, 2017, “Once amendments to Bill C-17 October 3 of this year. His focus was on the matters of reassessment. have been made, the department is willing to work with Yukon first nations, the Government of Yukon, and stakeholders such as your organization to review these Mr. Smith explained the burden that will be placed on industry, issues in order to identify possible short-term administrative or long-term legislative municipalities, and all Yukoners by Bill C-17. He told us: solutions.” 15188 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders We appreciate this commitment. However, it is imperative that all orders of want a good standard of living, they want to be healthy, they want to government work to undertake and implement solutions to these issues in advance of be educated, and most of all they want a sustainable future for the passage of Bill C-17 to ensure continuity for all parties involved. The time to start this work is already in the past. Our concerns for the future of our business have been themselves and for their families based on their own vision and their shared with all levels of government. We strongly urge you to begin this work and own priorities. establish a timeline to report progress on this front. Mr. Burke went on to tell us the following at that October 3 Mr. (Prince Albert, CPC): Madam Speaker, I meeting: am a very lucky person. I get to represent the great riding of Prince The Yukon Chamber of Mines and our membership support the need for a robust Albert that used to be held by former prime minister Diefenbaker, environmental review process. We represent a science-based industry composed of who had a great respect for the north. He actually looked at the geologists, engineers, tradespeople, and other professional and non-professional occupations, that has made and will continue to make significant investments in north's opportunities and brought the north into Canada. I also had reducing the impact our business has on the environment. We do not want to save the privilege to serve under former prime minister Harper, who also money at the expense of the environment. That is a myth. looked at the north as an opportunity and looked at its potential and its people and asked how we could include them in Canada and Let me repeat that: “We do not want to save money at the expense make them part of the process. I look forward, in 2019, to kicking of the environment. That is a myth.” the Liberals out of office and sitting with prime minister Scheer, so We are at the forefront of reconciliation as we invest in the backyards of Yukon first nations. We are at the forefront of reconciliation as we partner with Yukon first that he can actually do the same thing as prime minister Diefenbaker nations and provide economic opportunities where, in many cases, [as we know] few and prime minister Harper— other opportunities exist [in the private sector in this country]. We support the passage of Bill C-17 in order to reconcile with Yukon first nations. We urge the federal government to immediately engage with first nations The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I want to governments and the Yukon government to find short-term administrative or long- remind the member that he cannot mention names of sitting term legislative solutions to the impact of the removal of the reassessments and members or sitting leaders in the House. timelines contained in Bill C-17. The impact of Bill C-17, without addressing these concerns, will have a serious negative impact on investment and mining and exploration projects in the Yukon. The Yukon Chamber of Mines urges that this work be undertaken to implement The hon. member for Prince Albert. solutions to these issues in advance of the passage of Bill C-17 to ensure continuity for all parties involved. Mr. Randy Hoback: I apologize, Madam Chair. I look forward to ● (1105) a new Conservative prime minister in 2019, so we can address all the The government has claimed that all stakeholders are 100% mistakes that the current government has passed on to the Canadian behind Bill C-17. That is simply not true. The support was not an people. unconditional rubber stamp. In fact, the support is contingent on what has been promised by the now Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs. They emphatically told the I just think of all the election promises we have seen from the committee: current government: sunny ways, open and transparent government, The federal and territorial governments must work immediately with first nations keeping its promises, and doing things differently, supposedly. The governments to address the concerns and risks associated with the removal of the Liberals are doing things differently. We can just look at committees. provisions addressing reassessment and timelines from the act. They have used 50 adjournment motions. Conservative governments I will reiterate the commitment the minister made to the Yukon never, ever did that. Chamber of Mines when she was there in July. She wrote: “Once amendments to Bill C-17 have been made, the department is willing to work with Yukon first nations, the Government of Yukon, and As my colleague talks about the north and advantages of the north, stakeholders such as your organization to review these issues in as he looks at what people in the north want, and as he heard in order to identify possible short-term administrative or long-term committee what they were asking for, has the current government legislative solutions.” actually done the proper consultations to bring forward a piece of legislation such as this? Have the Liberals actually done the work, or I hope the minister is listening to what stakeholders are telling are they just doing what they want to do, as they have always done in her. We had three excellent people who came to our meeting on the past? October 3 to address this situation. However, it was back in July that the minister addressed these concerns in Yukon. Now we are into November. The months have passed. All stakeholders, including Mr. Kevin Waugh: Madam Speaker, it is obvious that the Yukon first nations, are ready to collaborate to ensure the regulations Liberals have had two years to bring forward a fairly simple piece of have something in place to address these major concerns, but the legislation, Bill C-17, and yet we are still going on. The north is minister's office remains silent, surprisingly. It is imperative that the crying. It wants in. The reassessments they are going through up minister follow through on her commitment that she made in July, there are simply ridiculous. They start a project, such as in mining. and do so very quickly. As members know, there are opportunities there. When stakeholders start drilling, they might want to go in a different direction. Instead Bob McLeod, Premier of Northwest Territories, told the Arctic of getting it assessed at that point and moving on, they have to get Circle assembly on October 13, a month ago, that people of the everything else reassessed from square one. We heard that from the Arctic want what everyone else wants. They want good jobs, they stakeholders. This is a regressive situation they are going through. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15189

Government Orders Jonas Smith, Brad Thrall, and Mike Burke talked about that at are opposed to Bill C-17, which would allow indigenous commu- committee on October 3. There is nowhere else in the world where nities in Yukon to regain their autonomy and decision-making this would happen, where people might have a project that is a year authority. or 18 months in and have to start all over again if they want to extend something. Then it becomes an issue of human resources. We heard When the Conservatives introduced Bill S-6, it was challenged. In testimony that they had lost a whole year there, a whole year of fact, it is presently before the courts. The indigenous peoples of employment, a whole year of economic benefit for an area of this Yukon decided, however, to put this challenge on hold while waiting country that desperately needs it right now. to see whether Bill C-17 would be passed or supported in the House. ● (1110) In fact, they support this bill despite the fact that work remains to be Ms. (Parliamentary Secretary to the President done to ensure that the rights of indigenous peoples are upheld. of the Treasury Board, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the comments by my colleague opposite, but they remind me of the It is rather difficult to understand why the Conservatives are previous Conservative government's gutting of environmental opposing this bill when it is what the indigenous peoples of Yukon regulations, from environmental assessments to the Fisheries Act, want. We constantly hear in the House that relations between the Navigable Waters Protection Act, and on and on. indigenous and non-indigenous peoples must improve and that there Does the member believe that the economy and the environment must be a nation-to-nation relationship. The Conservatives oppose go hand in hand, or does he believe that it is all right to consult only this. the economic stakeholders and make changes that move the dial away from environmental protection playing a role in how We must respect the indigenous peoples. I find it hard to see this government regulates in this country? respect when the Conservatives are opposing Bill C-17. An hon. member: Oh, oh! ● (1115) The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I recognize the member, I want to remind the member for Prince [English] Albert, who indicated how long he has been in the House and who knows the rules, that when he was was speaking, he had the privilege Mr. Kevin Waugh: Madam Speaker, well, it is simply put. of having members listen to him without being interrupted, and I would expect the same respect when other people are speaking. In my speech, I talked about a project that was started and should The hon. member for Saskatoon—Grasswood. be in operation, but is not because of a reassessment that is going on. Mr. Kevin Waugh: Madam Speaker, it is an interesting question They start a project, they could get people in the north employed, because on October 3, we had three business people from Yukon and now it will have to be reassessed from square one. Now we have testifying about the environment in Yukon and saying that was a lost a whole year up north in mining. The company has put hundreds myth. They are well ahead of the current government. The mining of thousands of dollars into human resources. The economic spinoff industry in this country is innovative and cares about the up north has been lost for that year, or 18 months. Why would we environment. It wants to start relationships with first nations and support this revision to Bill C-17? government. As I said in my speech, it is all a myth. These companies are well ahead of the government. We want to get people working in this country. This could be Yesterday, was one of the darkest days in the province of addressed if we had an exemption for projects from reassessment Saskatchewan that I represent. Cameco, one of the greatest when their authorization is renewed or amended, unless there has companies in my province, was forced to lay off 845 workers from been a significant change to the project. I stress the words northern Saskatchewan. Why? It is because of commodity prices. “significant change”. Some of the changes are not very significant, Cameco has been a source of strength for indigenous voices in my and so we should be able to continue on and people to continue to provinces. It did not want to do this, but it was forced to. It will start work. However, if we have to start over from square one, it is the layoffs in January, but hopefully bring the employees back in 10 ridiculous. On the economics, Yukon, in this case, and first nations months' time. These are the very people in our country we want to up there are the ones who are suffering. help, namely, indigenous peoples. Yet one of the major employers in my province yesterday was forced to lay off 845 of these people. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the They are decimated at McArthur River and Key Lake. Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I disagree with much of what the member across We have to work with companies. Companies have to work with the way is saying. He is trying to create an impression that is just not governments. We understand that, but ensuring employment in areas true on a number of counts. of northern Saskatchewan, in the territories, and Yukon is important if we are to move our economic base forward in this country. We have seen prosperity in all regions of the country. This is a [Translation] government that truly cares. It is unfortunate whenever there is layoff Ms. Anne Minh-Thu Quach (Salaberry—Suroît, NDP): of any nature. We try to do whatever we can to improve the Madam Speaker, I find it very disappointing that the Conservatives conditions so that we all have a better way to move forward. 15190 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders Would the member not, at the very least, acknowledge that we under 18 and restricting marketing and advertising activities geared have seen substantial growth? Around 500,000 jobs have been towards youth. created in all regions of our country. I believe that is a good indication of the policy and investment in Canada's middle class. [English] Will he not acknowledge that— The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I have to give time for the member to respond. Growers and manufacturers of cannabis would require a federal licence and be subject to a strict oversight regime intended to control The hon. member for Saskatoon—Grasswood. product safety and quality, and to prevent diversion to the illegal Mr. Kevin Waugh: Madam Speaker, we have an unemployment market. Effective oversight and control of cannabis cannot be rate of nearly 10% in the province of Alberta. We have mines in my achieved by working in isolation from our partners in the provinces, province suffering layoffs. I just mentioned two mines with 845 territories, and municipalities. people laid-off. We had an opportunity with the Alexco mine in the Yukon to hire people, and they cannot do that. From the outset, our government has been clear that the control It might be rosy in some areas of this country, and I accept that, and regulation of cannabis requires a pan-Canadian approach, but other areas of this country are not doing so well, namely involving all orders of government, at all stages of development and Saskatchewan, Alberta, and northern Canada. implementation. This reality is reflected in the important role that our provincial and territorial partners played in the work of the task force The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Is the on cannabis legalization and regulation. House ready for the question?

Some hon. members: Question. The task force was established in June 2016 with a mandate to The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The provide advice to the federal government on how to legalize, strictly question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the regulate, and restrict access to cannabis. Input from the provinces motion? and territories, as well as from indigenous communities, was essential to the successful work of the task force. Some hon. members: Agreed. Some hon. members: On division. The provinces and territories nominated experts to serve on the task force, and made suggestions as to who should be consulted. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I declare These individuals met with the task force, and shared their views on the motion carried on division. cannabis legalization and regulation and on how best to achieve our (Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed) shared objectives of better protecting public health and safety. *** [Translation] ● (1120) CANNABIS ACT It should come as no surprise that the input from the provinces and The House resumed from November 1 consideration of Bill C-45, territories was instrumental in shaping many important provisions of An Act respecting cannabis and to amend the Controlled Drugs and Bill C-45. Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other Acts, as reported (with amendment) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1. [English] Mr. Ron McKinnon (Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak in support of Bill C-45, an act respecting cannabis and to amend the Controlled Consistent with the task force report, Bill C-45 proposes a shared Drugs and Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other Acts. framework for the control and regulation of cannabis that would require ongoing federal, provincial, and territorial collaboration. The I think all members will agree that protecting the health and safety bill sets out clear controls and standards around cannabis, and of Canadians is a key priority for all orders of government in provides flexibility for each government to work within their own Canada. With this in mind, on April 13, Bill C-45 was introduced in jurisdictional authority and experience. Those who are best placed to the House. Its goal is the creation of a strict national framework for implement each aspect of the framework would do so. controlling the production, distribution, sale, and possession of cannabis in Canada. The bill would provide for legal access to cannabis where adults could obtain it through an appropriate legal At this time, I would like to explain how the various roles and framework, sourced from a strictly regulated industry or by growing responsibilities would be shared between our governments, begin- it safely and in limited amounts at home. ning with the federal role. Bill C-45 proposes that the federal [Translation] government would be responsible for establishing and maintaining a national framework for regulating the production of cannabis, setting The bill would also establish safeguards to protect youth, standards for health and safety, and establishing criminal prohibi- including prohibiting the sale or distribution of cannabis to anyone tions. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15191

Government Orders This would include establishing restrictions on adult access to my question to him is this. Does the legislation really meet the cannabis and serious criminal penalties for those operating outside objectives that the Liberals have stated, that is, to minimize the the legal system; creating rules to limit how cannabis or cannabis access that youth would have to cannabis? Does he believe that accessories could be promoted, packaged, labelled, and displayed, in allowing every household in Canada to have four mature marijuana line with the rules in place for tobacco products; instituting a federal plants would minimize the exposure and access that youth would licensing regime for cannabis production that would draw on lessons have to cannabis? learned from the current system for access to cannabis for medical purposes; establishing industry-wide rules and standards, for Mr. Ron McKinnon: Madam Speaker, I also appreciate serving example, serving sizes or potency limits, as well as a tracking of on the justice and human rights committee with the hon. member for cannabis to prevent diversion to the illegal market; creating Provencher. minimum federal conditions to provide a national framework to In answer to his question as to whether the legislation would serve protect public health and public safety; and enforcing cannabis to protect Canadians and youth, absolutely. It also recognizes the importation and exportation prohibitions at the border, except when role of parental responsibility in households in the same way that legally authorized. parents and adults in a household now protect their children from ● (1125) access to alcohol that may be widely present in the home. If there is [Translation] cannabis present or being grown in the home, it would still be part of that parental responsibility to maintain control in a responsible way, At the same time, Bill C-45 recognizes that provinces and just as parents do when looking after their children, and as they will territories and municipalities have a key role to play in the new do throughout their lives. system. ● (1130) [English] Mr. Wayne Stetski (Kootenay—Columbia, NDP): Madam The legislation would respect that provinces and territories, Speaker, I lived in Lincoln Park in Port Coquitlam for 10 years, together with municipalities, have the authority to tailor certain rules and I still have friends who live there. I know how important this in their own jurisdictions and enforce them through a range of tools, issue is to the people of Port Coquitlam. including administrative sanctions. Consistent with the recommen- dations from the task force, the provinces and territories, working In my own riding, I held a town hall about a year ago where 3,300 with municipalities, would be able to establish rules with respect to people stayed on the phone for an hour to learn about this initiative, where cannabis-based businesses could be located within a and of course to express some of their concerns. community, and also where cannabis could be consumed in public. About a year ago, I met with the Canadian Nurses Association. I Provinces and territories could also set additional requirements to asked one of the nurses there what she thought about the legalization address issues of local concern. For example, provincial and of marijuana, and some of the concerns. I appreciate that the member territorial legislatures would have the authority to set a higher talked first and foremost about safety. She said that she has a friend minimum age for cannabis possession. Provinces and territories who works in emergency rooms in Colorado, where marijuana has could also set more restrictive limits on possession or personal now been legal for a number of years, and that this friend had said cultivation, including lowering the number of plants or restricting that the number one thing that was now bringing people through the where they may be cultivated. doors of emergency rooms in Colorado was related to marijuana, Thus, Bill C-45 is drafted in such a way as to provide the either because of impaired accidents, both automobile and otherwise, provinces and territories with the ability to establish stricter rules and paranoia from combining mental health prescription drugs with under their own authorities. marijuana. We are pleased to see that the provinces and territories are already Therefore, I would like to ask the member this. Do you feel taking action to prepare for the legalization and regulation of comfortable that the proposal you have brought forward will actually cannabis. From coast to coast to coast, provinces and territories are keep Canadians safe? continuing the conversation with Canadians about how best to The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I just regulate the sale and distribution of cannabis in their towns, cities, want to remind the member that he is to address the question to the and communities. Chair, and not to the individual member. While provinces and territories will decide on a system that responds to their particular circumstances, it is clear that all The hon. member for Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam. jurisdictions share our government's responsibilities to keep cannabis Mr. Ron McKinnon: Madam Speaker, the legislation will keep out of the hands of youth, to shut out organized crime, and to protect Canadians safe in many ways. For example, marijuana is currently public health and safety. This is true for all orders of government. very widely used among our youth. Canada has one of the highest Mr. (Provencher, CPC): Madam Speaker, having per capita rates of marijuana use among youth in any developed served with my colleague across the way from Coquitlam—Port country. The problem is the marijuana they are getting is from an Coquitlam on the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, unknown source, of unknown potency, and unknown quality. It also and being the only two non-lawyers on the committee, I know that puts them into contact with the black market, which is a gateway to he is a very common-sense and practical kind of person. Therefore, many other serious drugs and substances. 15192 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders Providing a controlled source of marijuana of a known not be so worried about how marijuana legalization will affect our provenance, with a known potency and purity, would help that roads and our young people, the very young people the government situation. It would also provide a way for people to buy and sell it claims it is helping by legalizing marijuana. legally, controlled in a similar way to tobacco. The biggest effort to keep children away from using marijuana is I recently read a comment about how this legislation will going to be around education, not by prohibition, and not by normalize marijuana to the point that young people may be even threatening them with some sort of criminal prohibition. It devolves more interested in using it. I am trying to keep my feelings out of upon all the adults in the equation to look after the children, to keep this, but I must admit I am having a hard time. them educated, and to advise them of the danger of this substance. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Unfortu- nately, your time is up. July 1, 2018, is nine months from now. In September, the Ontario Provincial Police Deputy Commissioner told the Standing Commit- Resuming debate, the hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable. tee on Health that more time and more resources are needed to train police officers. Those two elements are lacking here. This is how the [Translation] Deputy Commissioner described the likelihood that police officers Mr. (Mégantic—L'Érable, CPC): Madam Speak- will be ready by July 1, 2018: er, I do not detect much enthusiasm when my colleagues on the government side are talking about Bill C-45, the marijuana ...it's impossible. The damage that can be done between the time of new legalization bill. Many of them simply read out prepared speeches legislation and police officers being ready to enforce the law...can make it very and do not really believe everything they are saying. hard for us to ever regain that foothold. Since I live in a rural area, in a community that is very worried about what is happening in Canada for the first time in its history, I We heard the same message from Mario Harel, the president of the cannot honestly imagine that, deep down, the members opposite are Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, when he appeared before happy about moving forward with Bill C-45. I am not the only one the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights: who thinks so. There is very strong opposition in my riding, of course. Police bodies, municipalities, and provincial governments ...are we delivering on the public safety objectives Canadians would expect of are also opposed to having this kind of legislation imposed on them us? We are 10 months away, so allow me to put this into perspective. and especially object to the government's utterly irrational agenda with regard to Bill C-45. Doctors, psychiatrists, scientists, and We have 65,000 police officers in Canada who require training to understand the leaders everywhere are speaking out. new legislation once it is passed into law....Provincial governments for the most part are still developing regulatory and delivery schemes, which directly impact law Just before coming here to give this speech, I asked some of my enforcement. constituents about their thoughts on Bill C-45. Here are some of the comments I received: Quite frankly, the capacity currently is not there to deliver the amount of training I no longer live in the area, but I am still 200% against it. People are not allowed required. to smoke anywhere, but soon people are really going to start complaining when they realize just how much pot stinks. Legalizing the drug is a really stupid idea. ● (1135) Here is another comment: We have enough trouble dealing with drunk driving, and now they want to add another driving problem with this legislation. The accident rate went up in countries The police themselves are the ones saying this. where they legalized cannabis, and we will be no exception.

I am not the one who is saying this. Here is another quotation: Why are the Liberals so determined to rush Bill C-45 through? I am 100% against. I have seen the havoc drugs have wreaked on the lives of What are they hiding? What is the hurry? Who do they have to users and their loved ones, and it really is not pretty. We cannot forget that this “soft” answer to, if not Canadians, police chiefs, doctors, and psychiatrists? drug is a stepping stone to other hard drugs. Therefore, people will be saying that it is no big deal because it is legal. This is very dangerous, especially for our youth. Who is the government trying to pander to by rushing to legalize marijuana? That is not all. Here is another one: It seems that politicians have not consulted, or have not consulted enough, with experts on the subject. This will have a serious impact on young people. We know this. I have heard from many people who are saying the same thing. What Here is one final comment: the government is claiming is totally false. They are already having a hard time providing mental health care, so how are they going to deal with growing demand because statistics show that marijuana use often leads to problems like that and makes a lot of people depressed. This makes me worry about the future. If young people under 25 are allowed to use cannabis, this will have a serious impact. It has been proven that this can have a If the proper process had been followed, these people would not permanent and possibly very serious effect on their mental health be so worried. If this bill were addressing an actual need, these and brain development. I will not start quoting scientists and all the people would already have answers to their questions. They would studies that have been done on that, for there are too many to name. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15193

Government Orders All I know is that if the government goes ahead with this on I am just curious. Does the member not see that with the July 1, 2018, Canada will not be the same, Canadian society will not imposition of a strict regulatory regime for the production and be the same. The Liberal government and every Liberal member will distribution of cannabis we would have an opportunity to do a better be to blame. The hon. member for Compton—Stanstead, the hon. job of protecting our kids and a better job of making our member for Shefford, the hon. member for Saint-Maurice— communities safe, displacing organized crime from this business? Champlain, the hon. member for Québec, the hon. member for Lac-Saint-Jean, the hon. member for Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, I find the current situation unacceptable, but the member opposite the hon. member for Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine, the hon. laments its passing. I would like him to explain why the current member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, the hon. member for Louis- situation is his preferred environment. Hébert, the hon. member for Avignon—La Mitis—Matane— ● (1145) Matapédia, the hon. member for Brome—Missisquoi, and the hon. member for Saint-Jean and all the others will be to blame for [Translation] everything that happens after July 1, 2018. Mr. Luc Berthold: Madam Speaker, we are looking to the facts. They still have a chance to get this right, but, if they continue to impose Bill C-45 on Canadians, after July 1, 2018 it will be too late. With respect to Colorado, consumption of marijuana rose after legalization. That is why I prefer the Canada as it exists now to the Police chiefs have said that they are not ready. The damage will be one that will take shape after July 2018. done and we will never be able to go back. This is where this government is taking us. This is where this government is taking our I will remind the member for Scarborough Southwest, who was a society. This is where this government is taking Canada after July 1, respected police chief, what his colleagues say when asked if it is 2018. possible for the police to be ready for July 1, 2018. History will be defined by what came before July 1, 2018, and [English] what came after July 1, 2018. “Impossible. Senior police officials tell MPs they won't be ready Those are the facts and that is what we are up against. I hope that for legal cannabis.” the members I named and all the others, such as the hon. member for [Translation] Pontiac, the hon. member for Thérèse-De Blainville, the hon. member for Pierrefonds—Dollard, the hon. member for Dorval— That is the reality, and these are the facts. I am tired of hearing Lachine—LaSalle, the hon. member for Bourassa, and the hon. them insist otherwise. member for Laval—Les Îles will understand this before the damage is done. In my riding's high schools, it is not true that most students consume cannabis. It is simply not true. The students who consume We are at a point where individual members of the Liberal cannabis are far outnumbered by those who do not. Unfortunately, government must assume their responsibilities towards their once marijuana is legalized and normalized, the scales could tip the constituents, the youth in their ridings, and Canada. other way, with consumption becoming more common among youth I regularly see the member for Scarborough Southwest defend this than not. That is what will happen. irresponsible date of July 1, 2018. I invite him to come and tour our Mr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): Madam Speaker, I regions and to speak with our mayors and police chiefs so that he want to thank my colleague, the member for Mégantic—L'Érable, will understand once and for all that the date of July 1, 2018 is for his remarks. I thought one thing he said was particularly premature. Canada is not ready to deal with these changes. interesting, namely that he holds the Liberal members to blame.

Personally, I prefer the Canada as it exists now prior to July 1, I was under the impression that every member of this Parliament 2018, to the Liberals' Canada after July 1, 2018. was elected to be a lawmaker. We did not choose this poorly crafted ● (1140) bill, evidently. However, I have trouble understanding how my [English] colleague, as a Conservative, would bear some of the blame, given that his party proposed no amendments or changes, not even to Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of postpone the coming into force of what I must say is a rather poorly Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of crafted bill. Health, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his invitation to go to his riding to give his constituents information, not to cause Listening to his speech, I shared some of the concerns expressed fear but to help them be better informed. by the people of his riding, because we hear these concerns in many I find the member's comment that he prefers the situation as it ridings. currently exists intriguing. Let us be clear what that situation is. Why are the Conservatives not proposing any amendments to this Today we have the highest rate of cannabis use among children of deeply flawed bill? any country in the world. The member apparently prefers that. The current supply of cannabis being sold to our children comes from Mr. Luc Berthold: Madam Speaker, when an apple is rotten, we organized crime. They make billions of dollars from that. The do not cut it up to try to salvage what we can from it. We throw it member prefers that. out. That is what we should have done with Bill C-45. 15194 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders [English] need to address the issue. It might affect some ridings more than Ms. Marilyn Gladu (Sarnia—Lambton, CPC): Madam Speak- others, but at the end of the day, it is a national issue. er, the government is continually saying that this legislation would keep cannabis out of the hands of our children, but that is not true. There are already too many young people being encouraged to use The provinces disagree. The New Brunswick health minister just cannabis. There is a criminal element out there that wants young came out with some added provisions to try to protect children from people to use it. They sell it to young people, because they have a homegrown cannabis. I see that Saskatchewan advocates are looking vested financial interest in getting young kids to use cannabis. This for more things. legislation, in good part, would deal with that.

Subclause 8(c) of the bill would allow children aged 12 to 17 to The Conservatives seem to have no problem with people going have up to five grams. into our schools and telling children to buy bags of cannabis. Those Could the member share what they think in Quebec about those students are going to be experimenting with who knows what, provisions? because criminal elements are trying to get our kids to smoke marijuana. We do not know what is in the bags being circulated in [Translation] our schools, or in the cigarettes, or tokes, or whatever they are called. Mr. Luc Berthold: Madam Speaker, everyone agrees that it Excuse me for not knowing the word. We have no idea what the makes no sense for children between the ages of 12 to 17 to be in drugs are being laced with or what is sold to children in our schools. possession of marijuana. What we know for a fact is that there are too many young people in Canada who are being enticed to participate in the consumption of Unfortunately, that is probably what is going to happen, cannabis. particularly since this bill will allow people to grow marijuana at home. Who is going to start counting the leaves on their pot plants to ● (1150) make sure that three or four of them have not been stolen by children between the ages of 12 to 17? That does not make any sense. This We finally have a government that is saying that it is going to measure is irresponsible and disrespectful toward Canadian youth. strictly regulate, legalize, and restrict access to cannabis. In the area I [English] represent, I believe that is good news. Every year we get gangs or that criminal element making hundreds of millions of dollars. A Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the major amount of that money comes through selling cannabis to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): young people. I am talking about 11 to 13-year-olds. Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to share a bit of information that will hopefully be of benefit to members and will get Conservative members to rethink some of the spin they are hearing When people talk about the impact on the brain and on a young from their Conservative colleagues, or possibly their research team. I person's growth, there is no question that we need to be concerned do not know exactly where they are getting their facts. On the last about this. However, if members are really concerned about this and question, about the five grams, it would be illegal under this they want to do something about it, they might want to consider legislation to have five grams in one's possession. Less than that voting in favour of the legislation. If they are really sincere in their would be under provincial jurisdiction. comments about about young people, they will vote in favour of this.

Let me start by commenting that I was really touched by the I am concerned about the young people whom I represent in comments made earlier today by representatives of all political Winnipeg North. I want to see less money going to the criminal parties. As someone who has served in the Canadian Forces, I have element there. I want to see fewer 11-year-olds consuming cannabis. had the opportunity to participate in many marches in remembrance. This legislation is a giant step in the right direction to allow that to I would like to briefly provide a comment of respect for those war happen. The Conservatives seem to believe that if the legislation veterans I marched with back in the early 1980s. I applaud and passes, people who have consumed cannabis will be driving around recognize their ultimate sacrifice to make Canada what it is today. on streets all over Canada. I have news for them. That happens today. I understand that the New Democrats and the Green Party will be supporting this legislation. Canadians need not be surprised. Liberals talked about this in the last federal election. It was in our election When it came to training our police or our law enforcement platform that this was what we would do. At the end of the day, there agencies, the Conservatives committed $2 million. This government has been a great deal of support for what the government is moving is committing $161 million for training of law enforcement officers forward with. I am surprised at the degree to which the Conservative and providing the type of equipment that is going to be necessary. Party seems to want to fight this issue. What surprises me most is the Therefore, not only are we doing the right thing by bringing forward fact that it does not have any problem using misinformation. the legislation, we are also providing the financial means necessary to assist our law enforcement agencies. I do not share the opinions of In Canada today we have the highest consumption rate in terms of Conservative members who seem to think that our law enforcement young people engaged in using cannabis. That means that there are agencies will not be ready in time. The resources and the sense of more young people per capita in Canada who have tried or used commitment we see day in and day out from law enforcement cannabis than in countries like the United States, the U.K., and officers will ensure we are in a ready position to deal with this good, Australia. We already know that our system is not working, and we sound legislation. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15195

Government Orders A great deal of effort has been put into this legislation. I made The Liberals want to usher in the type of world where, starting reference to the fact that we had an election platform. Canadians July 1, 2018, a 12-year-old will be able to legally access marijuana. I have been consulted extensively on this issue. We have had a task have children and grandchildren. In all honesty, I cannot believe that, force on it. We have standing committees that have dealt with it, in a developed country like ours, we are going to be sending a either directly or indirectly. A great deal of debate has taken place, message to kids that it is perfectly acceptable and easy to do drugs not only in Ottawa but in our constituencies. We now have before us whenever they want. legislation that would make a positive difference. I want to bring it down to the real grassroots communities we Does my colleague have any grandchildren? Does he think that represent. Today, far too many dollars flow to the criminal elements the day when they can easily buy drugs on a street corner will be a in our communities. Cannabis is one of those things that contributes good day for his grandchildren? hundreds of millions of dollars every year to that. This legislation would help to get rid of that. By doing that, we will see fewer young [English] people using cannabis because we will be taking the profit away from the criminal element, which has a financial interest in getting Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I have grandchildren. our young people on cannabis or at least trying it. That is one of the Like the member across the way, I do not want my grandchildren to reasons why more young people in Canada use cannabis than in any go in a direction that is unhealthy for them. That is one of the reasons other country in the world. why I think this is good legislation. I do not want some 22-year-old individual trying to sell my grandchild marijuana. If he sells him that ● (1155) little bag of marijuana, he will make money that will go into criminal [Translation] activities. Millions of dollars go into criminal activities, and that Mr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): Madam Speaker, I happens today. It is out of concern for my grandchildren and other thank my colleague for his speech. children that we need this legislation passed.

There are 338 members of the House of Commons. The [Translation] government has a slight majority, which means that it is in charge of planning our country's legislative agenda. That brings us to the Mr. Joël Godin (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, CPC): Madam bill proposed by the Liberal government. The 338 MPs are the ears Speaker, first of all, I want to congratulate the member for Winnipeg and the voice of the people we represent. The members on this side North on being nominated for hardest-working MP. Well done, dear of the House are not all complete idiots who do not care about what colleague. our constituents say. How is it then that not one of the 38 amendments proposed by the I have tremendous respect for my colleague, but I would add the NDP to try to strengthen this bill was accepted? One has to wonder. caveat that just because a person is hard-working does not mean everything they do is right. How is it that the Liberals always seem to have all the answers? ● (1200) I also want to take this opportunity to remind members that [English] November 5 was municipal elections day in Quebec. The Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, whether with this 28 municipalities in the beautiful riding of Portneuf—Jacques- legislation or other legislation, we have seen a change in attitude at Cartier voted in a mix of new officials and re-elected incumbents. the standing committees. I am very familiar with the amendments The day after the elections, I wasted no time in congratulating the and the process in which amendments are brought forward. The mayors and councillors. However, a warning was in order as well. In standing committees control the committee, what is debated, the eight months' time, these municipal councillors and mayors will have votes, and so forth. We have had standing committees in which a problem to deal with. These elected officials will be responsible for amendments have been brought forward and have passed. Opposi- making sure life goes on in their municipalities after July 1, 2018. tion amendments have passed, many in fact, on a wide variety of They will have decisions to make. They will have to keep an eye on legislation. We can contrast that to the former government. I could their parks. What will be happening around schools? not name one amendment that ever passed during the years of the Conservative majority government. My colleague said earlier that 12-year-olds could be walking around with drugs in their pockets. We must not forget that children Our government listens. It is very responsible with all ideas are more impressionable than adults. I am deeply troubled. brought forward. I do not want to comment specifically on the amendments the member across the way might have brought forward, but our government gives consideration to all amendments. Municipal elected officials will also have to look at what this means for highway safety codes. Those are under provincial [Translation] jurisdiction, but municipalities do have local responsibilities. Mr. Bernard Généreux (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska Recently, the Government of Quebec enacted legislation giving —Rivière-du-Loup, CPC): Madam Speaker, I listened to my municipalities additional responsibilities, including speed limits in colleague defend this bill with great passion, but I do not know residential areas. Municipalities handle that. What a gift for our where this passion is coming from. newly elected officials. 15196 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I take no pleasure in rising in the House today to speak to a c) provide for the licit production of cannabis to reduce illicit activities in relation Liberal bill that will destroy our youth, theact respecting cannabis to cannabis; and to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other acts. In other words, the government is saying that it will kill organized crime, but the Canadian Police Association said that it was naive to I was talking about municipalities. We also have to talk about the believe that organized crime activity could be restrained, reduced, or other level of government, the provincial government, which will influenced. That is the word the Canadian Police Association used to have to deal with all these problems in return for a portion of the describe this government. Then, the bill goes on: federal government's revenues from legalizing this product. (d) deter illicit activities in relation to cannabis through appropriate sanctions and Many studies have made it abundantly clear that using marijuana enforcement measures; affects people's health, especially the health of our young people. We must not forget that health is under provincial jurisdiction. Young people from 12 to 17 will apparently be able to go around We also have to talk about road safety. We have no idea how our with 5 grams of marijuana, which is the equivalent of 10 to 15 joints hard-working police officers are going to enforce that. There has depending on their size. I will keep reading: been talk of training and investment, even of sending people to the United States for training. Nobody is ready for this. We should be (e) reduce the burden on the criminal justice system in relation to cannabis; taking our time. Yes, we agree on decriminalization, but let us make the distinction As for personnel management, the Quebec minister of labour does between decriminalization and legalization. All 338 members of not know what to do about the problem. People will be going to Parliament probably made some mistakes in their youth. It is work after using drugs. It is a lot harder to verify people's state after certainly better to pay a fine, as we do for speeding, than it is to have they use drugs than after they drink. This is just one more thing a criminal record. The bill goes on: being downloaded onto the provinces. (f) provide access to a quality-controlled supply of cannabis; and A university president from the Quebec City area asked how they are supposed to deal with this and manage it on campus. A myriad (g) enhance public awareness of the health risks associated with cannabis use. questions remain unanswered, and yet the government is fixated on one thing: July 1, 2018. Why is there such a rush to get this bill into The government is saying that marijuana is not good for people's law? health, but it is going to legalize it. The government is saying that I recognize that drug use exists and that we need to do something. people should not use it, but it is going to put measures in place that However, just because the government cannot control an existing will make it more accessible to our young people. I rise in the House problem does not mean that we should trivialize and legalize it. We today to protect our young people. That is important for any self- should be taking more responsible steps and taking the time to come respecting society. It is naive to think that this is going to get rid of up with better solutions. I do not think this is the right way to tackle organized crime. the problem. My goal is to protect young people under 25. All studies show that We need to work on prevention. We need to encourage our youth the brain development is complete by age 25. Why put young people to play sports and get involved in the arts and in their community. between the ages of 18 and 25 at risk? The government is treating Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier has 500 organizations. Their problem our young people like lab rats. We are the first G20 country that right now is that they cannot renew their membership lists or find wants to legalize this drug. Why? We will become a testing ground new volunteers. and that is unacceptable. We are sacrificing a generation. That shows ● (1205) a lack of respect for our young people and makes it seem the government does not believe in the future of our country. Why has the federal government not developed a program to encourage our youth to get involved in their community? When they are involved in sports, dancing, singing, or arts and crafts, whatever This government is here for the wrong reasons. It is spending the activity, that is all they think about. They do not have time for money hand over fist and now has backed itself into a corner, so it is mischief or smoking marijuana. looking for a way to make some fast cash. First, that is an irresponsible way for a government to behave, because it has no The government opposite outlined specific purposes in the vision. Second, it is using our young people to fill its coffers. The legislation. They are: government has failed to mention what the cost of the consequences a) protect the health of young persons by restricting their access to cannabis; will be. We need to take the time to find a more respectful solution. However, it will be sold everywhere. Furthermore, people will have easy access from home since they will be allowed to grow their Even the tax is set out in budget 2017. We are wasting our time own pot plants. I will continue: here today. The Liberals want this measure to take effect on July 1, b) protect young persons and others from inducements to use cannabis; 2018, and they did not agree to any of the amendments proposed by the NPD. They are looking forward to July 1, when they can raise Once again, it will be available everywhere. Here is the the third some money for the friends of Pierre Elliott Trudeau's heir, our purpose: famous Prime Minister. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15197

Government Orders It does not take a genius to understand that this government is will simply say that, because we are unable to take control, because implementing measures that will take money out of the pockets of we cannot find a solution, we will give up and open the door wide. It Canadians and harm our young people. That is unacceptable. This is irresponsible. government needs to listen to reason. I am calling on the government to take more time before implementing this legislation, to be serious, Unfortunately, I did not really understand the question, because it and to show some respect for our young people. I am rising today on was too long, but I hope I answered it to my colleague’s satisfaction. behalf of our youth. Ms. Anne Minh-Thu Quach (Salaberry—Suroît, NDP): Mr. ● (1210) Speaker, I will return to what my colleague has just said about [English] criminalization. All the studies show that criminalization and the longer minimum sentences implemented by the Conservatives for Mr. Bill Blair (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of cannabis-related offences have not worked. They have not reduced Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of drug use in young people, and they have not reduced the Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to begin by involvement of organized crime in the sale of cannabis. simply advising the member that I spent most of my adult life fighting crime, and crime and violence can be reduced in our society, On the contrary, according to the statistics on drug-related but not through tough talk, through smart action. offences reported by the police in 2014, one year after the Conservatives’ repressive laws were passed, cases of methamphe- I also wanted to clarify something. The member opposite said that tamine possession rose by 38% and trafficking by 17%, while cases he supports decriminalization. I suggest to him that we have of heroine possession rose by 34% and trafficking by 12%. The recognized the harm that can be visited on young people from being minimum sentences did not work, the war on drugs was criminalized by getting a criminal record. That is why we have set unsuccessful. Why do the Conservatives not want us to adopt and limits. For example, if a young person under the age of 18 has more implement a new strategy, an approach based on public health? than five grams of marijuana, that would be a criminal offence. Right now, the number one drug, the most commonly used drug in However, below that, we have worked with the provinces and Canada and throughout the world, is cannabis. The people who use territories so they could enact provincial legislation that would cannabis the most are young people between the ages of 12 and 25. enforce an absolute prohibition on the possession, purchase, and We need a new strategy to continue to work with young people and consumption of cannabis. In every province, a provincial offence improve prevention. Obviously, there are shortcomings in the bill we would prohibit a person under the age of majority in that province are debating, but we can work on these shortcomings and make from possessing cannabis. It would give the police the authority to improvements. seize that cannabis and ticket for that offence. What it would not do is give that kid a criminal record. Mr. Joël Godin: Mr. Speaker, if my colleague had really listened to what I said, she would see that I agree that there is a problem and I have spoken to people on both sides of this House, and we all we need to find solutions. Decriminalization is not a magic wand to care about our kids. We care about their health, their safety, and their solve all our drug-related problems, but it is a step in the right outcomes. One of the greatest impediments to their outcomes is that direction. Now, let us take the time to determine the best way to criminal record. This government has listened to that, and have done proceed. exactly what the member wants us to do. We have removed the threat of a criminal sanction from those kids, but we have enforced What I said earlier is that we need to protect young people aged the prohibition through smart provincial regulation, exactly as we do 25 and under and set up a prevention program. In fact, I might not for alcohol, by the way. have said it because I was short of time, but I included it in my speech. We need to establish a prevention program, a program to If we look at those provincial regulations coming forward, we see encourage young people to become involved in sports, the arts and that we would be getting exactly what the member thinks is the right volunteering, and put in place the means to eliminate the distribution thing to do. Does it ease the member's concern knowing that is of drugs to young people. happening? Does it ease his concern with respect to young people having prohibited access to this drug? [English] ● (1215) Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am thankful for [Translation] the opportunity to engage in this debate. Bill C-45 is, of course, the bill that would legalize marijuana in Canada. Mr. Joël Godin: Mr. Speaker, first, I am aware of my colleague’s past, and I am surprised and disappointed with his position. When we talk about legalization, we have to understand what this He is saying that, because the penalties imposed on young people legislation would do. It would normalize the use of marijuana in in the past had no effect, we should give up. That means that we are everyday life across Canada. Like cigarettes, which were normalized unable to curb the distribution and sale of drugs. many years ago, and the same with booze, marijuana would now become an accepted part of Canadian life. The message we send to Mr. Speaker, correct me if I should not be saying this, but that is a our children would be a terrible one. It is one that says we give up, cowardly approach. It is unacceptable, because it means shirking our we surrender, because we are no longer going take action to responsibilities. Instead of dealing with the problem, we are eliminate the use of marijuana and other drugs in our society. We are legalizing marijuana because we are unable to take control of the simply going to go, as my colleague said, the coward's way: situation. That means that, if there are other problems in society, we acquiesce and legalize it. 15198 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I am absolutely confident that Bill C-45, which represents the use of marijuana amongst young people invariably leads to normalization of the use of marijuana in Canada, would become a significant mental health issues? In fact, I am predicting that if this massive public policy failure for the Liberal government, just like its legislation passes, in 5, 10, 15 years from now, Canada will face a tax reforms, where it attacks small businesses, diabetics, those who mental health crisis. All of these youth who have had greater access are getting employee discounts, and the mentally ill. That has to marijuana will be suffering from significant mental health become a massive policy failure, and Bill C-45 would also become a challenges. What a terrible legacy for us to leave for our children. massive policy failure for the reasons I will articulate. I want to address the issue of the timing of this legislation. As we The bill would effectively legalize the sale, use, and cultivation of know, the Prime Minister has said he is going to ram this thing marijuana. As I said, it would normalize its use. We have worked so through and implement the legislation by July 1, 2018. However, we hard as a society to discourage cigarette smoking, and yet here we have heard from police chiefs across Canada that it is impossible for are opening the door to what is arguably an even more dangerous them to get ready and implement this legislation with all the substance. The irony is that the current government, while it would challenges this bill represents. We have heard from communities pass the bill to legalize the use of marijuana, would then engage in a across the country, including from my own city of Abbotsford, public relations and communications strategy telling young people which communicated with the federal government, made a who would be purchasing marijuana that they should not buy it submission to the committee that studied this bill, and said, “Please, because it is very dangerous and they should not use it, but it would you cannot do this by July 1”. The provinces and territories are be legalized and normalized. I mean, the hypocrisy of that is jaw- saying to the Prime Minister that July 1 is way too ambitious a date dropping. to implement this plan by, that they will not be ready for it. Their I was an elected official in the City of Abbotsford for many years. police services will not be ready, their educational system will not be I was very pleased to serve there as a city councillor. I can tell ready, and Canadians will not be ready for it. members that, as a council, one of the biggest challenges we had was the growing of marijuana plants at home. Many of these were illegal Generally speaking, it is going to result in a fiasco. However, that grow ops. Eventually, medicinal marijuana was approved for use in is what we have to expect from the Liberal government. Whatever Canada, and homes are now growing this under the auspices of file it touches, it it ends up being a huge mess. That includes ethical providing some kind of medicinal relief. What has happened is that failures like those of the finance minister and the Prime Minister and we have communities and neighbourhoods within Abbotsford that his fundraiser having offshore accounts. No one trusts the are wonderful neighbourhoods, but they have houses in which government anymore. There has been a fundamental breach of trust. marijuana is grown. Historically, they would cover the windows with foil, and the stench emanating from those properties was over- Let us look at some of the other challenges. I want to be very clear whelming. There was a constant stream of neighbourhood members that we support ticketing the possession of small amounts of who would come to us council members and complain about it. marijuana. We are supportive of decriminalization of small amounts of marijuana. We do not want to leave young children with a This bill would authorize the growing of marijuana plants at criminal record. home. I can assure members that many Canadians, unfortunately, will take that opportunity to grow more than the four plants that However, this bill goes far beyond decriminalization. It is clear- would be allowed under the proposed legislation. This would result cut legalization of the use of marijuana and the normalization that in continued challenges with our neighbourhoods across Canada. will follow. We run a huge risk as we normalize the use of marijuana in Canada, where people will be entitled by law to possess small There was a stated objective of the government that it wanted to amounts of marijuana. Many Canadians will be travelling. They will protect youth, and that the regulation and legalization of marijuana have used marijuana regularly. They will have some of it in their would achieve that end. The Liberals stated that they also wanted to glove compartments. When they get to the U.S. border, suddenly the eliminate organized crime, but we know that children under the age border agents will be asking, “Hey, what do you have in your car? of 18 are not supposed to be buying marijuana. Anyone over the age Do you have any guns or drugs?” People will say, “No, we do not.” of 18, under the proposed legislation, would be able to legally The agents will rifle through the car and find marijuana in the glove purchase and consume marijuana, but those under the age of 18 compartment. Those people will probably be apprehended on the would not. Ironically, those between the ages of 12 and 17 would be American side of the border. They will have a criminal record on that allowed to possess small amounts of marijuana. Where would they side of the border. They will have to go through the legal process acquire that marijuana? They cannot buy it legally. Who are they there. That is one of the many small consequences the bill will going to go to? Well, organized crime would supply that drug. generate. ● (1220) There is a bigger problem. All of the medical and and scientific Finally, it is very clear that the government has run out of money. research says that marijuana use among young people has a very That is why it is taxing Canadians to death. It has gone after small negative impact on their developing young brains. businesses, diabetics, employee discounts, the mentally ill, and now it is going after marijuana. The government is going to tax Why would the Liberal government want to legalize a drug that marijuana. More and more, it is because the government is running we know will be used by our youth in increasing numbers, because it short of money. Can members imagine that being the reason for will be that much more available to them? Why would we allow this passing a bill like this that will have enormous consequences for to happen when it is very clear from the medical literature that the Canadians? November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15199

Government Orders I say to my Liberal friends across the way in closing that they communicate with youth telling them not to use marijuana. The should give their heads a shake and reconsider what they are doing hypocrisy is jaw dropping. here. This is bad policy that will hurt future generations of Canadians. They should not do it. [Translation] ● (1225) Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I Mr. (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Mr. would like to thank my colleague for his speech. However, I often Speaker, I appreciate the comments by the member for Abbotsford. have difficulty understanding the Conservatives’ logic when it We get along great at the environment committee and had a great comes to finding solutions to problems. Often, their first reaction is discussion this morning. to say that all the answers are in the Criminal Code. They want to criminalize everything, as though that would solve the problem. Regrettably, I see some challenges with what he has presented here today. In particular, he talked about normalizing the use of My other colleague even drew a parallel with cigarettes by talking cannabis. Is he aware of the fact that 21% of our youth have used about the awareness campaigns, which, statistics have shown, marijuana? Is he aware of the fact that 30% of young adults use enabled us, over time, to reduce tobacco use without having to marijuana? What more is required for him to realize it is already a criminalize the toxic substance. problem? I therefore wonder why we should not use the same approach He then talked about access to cannabis, particularly the access of with cannabis that we used with cigarettes; in other words, legalize it young children to cannabis, and how it will somehow give rise to the and launch awareness campaigns to reduce its use. criminal activity behind production and distribution. How many of these young people are getting alcohol brewed at home, or tobacco Since it worked for cigarettes, why would it not work for that has been grown and dried at home and rolled into cigarettes? It cannabis? simply will not work like that. [English] The reality of the situation is that when we have legalized it and regulated its production, and when we can start to properly inform Hon. Ed Fast: Mr. Speaker, I will say this. The member and educate children about the challenges involved, as we have done suggested that we in the Conservative Party want to make the use of with cigarettes, we will be so much more successful. I am not marijuana criminal. Here is a news flash: the use and selling of creating a brand new scenario here. This has already been the case. marijuana in Canada is illegal right now. We want to preserve the We have already seen this happen with alcohol and tobacco. We have state of the law as it is. The best thing we can do, something that has had a much higher success rate at keeping those out of the hands of been resisted by the NDP and the Liberals for time immemorial, is to children. come up with targeted mandatory minimum prison sentences for those who produce and sell marijuana, especially those who sell Would the member like to respond to the fact that so many youth marijuana to our youth. I articulated in my speech the terrible impact are already experimenting with cannabis? that marijuana use has on the young developing brain. Therefore, we ● (1230) should be going after the predators who produce the stuff and sell it The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. ): Before we to our kids, rather than simply saying that we should give up and go to the hon. member for Abbotsford, I want to remind the hon. normalize it. That is a backward solution. members, as I know a few of them are getting antsy and making ● (1235) suggestion out loud, that when I say “questions and comments”,I leave it to the members to either ask a question or make comments. Mr. Mark Warawa (Langley—Aldergrove, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is a real honour and privilege to represent my beautiful community The hon. member for Abbotsford. of Langley—Aldergrove. I want to thank the member for Abbotsford Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I did want to for his hard work over the many years, representing his community reiterate what my colleague said. We do work very well at committee well. He brought up many good and important points. I hope the and get a lot of things done, which indicates there is a lot of goodwill government is listening. around the environment committee table. I want to congratulate the parliamentary secretary for being He has suggested that a significant percentage of Canadian youth recognized for having spoken more words in Parliament than anyone already use drugs to some degree. He is right. Therefore, the member else. What a great record. He sure talks. asked if this was not already a problem. Yes, it is. This bill would make that problem much worse for the reasons I The parliamentary secretary asked where the facts were coming articulated. Just because there are youth who have been using it from. If the government does not know where the facts come from, illegally, like our Prime Minister did, it does not mean it is good for we have a problem. Maybe this is one of the reasons why Canadians them or that we should normalize its use. It means we should find are concerned with the government and why they are losing trust in new and creative ways of discouraging the use of marijuana. it. The decisions the Liberals make are not logical. The irony is that with this bill, the government's legalization of the The member for Abbotsford addressed the national issue of too use of marijuana will increase marijuana use amongst our youth at many young people using marijuana. It is a problem when 21% of the same time the government is establishing a policy to children use it. 15200 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I took a one-week bike training course with the RCMP. I wanted our communities, particularly schools.” This superintendent is in to be with RCMP members as they travelled into parks. I wanted to charge of one of the largest school districts in the United States. He see how they dealt with the issue of drugs. It was being confiscated went on to say, “So far, the only thing that the legalization of from youths because it was bad for them. The officers also took their marijuana has brought to our schools has been marijuana.” names. Yes, it is illegal. Yes, 21% of youth using it. It is a problem. I was very proud of how they handled the situation. I have been with the police bike unit and also in police cars. I have seen how officers professionally protect our communities, how they I agree with the member for Abbotsford that it should be try to keep our communities safe in practical, realistic ways, and how decriminalized and that it should be a ticketable offence rather than a they confiscate. criminal offence. However, right now it is illegal and we have a problem. The government is proposing that if somebody is driving a car The government is talks about the 21% of children and 30% of with some buddies in it and there is an open bottle of alcohol in that young adults. Young adults are on my youth advisory board. These vehicle, if the care is stopped by the police, the police can confiscate are bright young people who, hopefully, will be our leaders in the that open bottle of alcohol. However, if police officers stop a car that years to come. I did not ask what percentage of them were using has four people in it and marijuana is found, every one of in the car cannabis. I asked them what they thought of the government's goal to can legally have 30 grams of marijuana, or 60 joints. That is 240 have it legalized by July 1, and they all smiled. I asked if they joints in total. thought the Liberals were on the right track. Almost all their hands went up and they all wanted to have input. Overwhelmingly they It is illogical to say that this is the way we will fight the problem criticized the government. or this how we will fight organized crime. The parliamentary secretary said that too many criminals wanted young people to use Young people from all political persuasions sit on the youth pot but the government did not. Therefore, the Liberal government is advisory board. I did not want just Conservatives, I wanted a full going to compete with the criminal element. The Liberals will ensure spectrum representing our community of Langley—Aldergrove. that the quality of the pot is good and people can have lots of it. The They said that the government should not be moving so fast, that it Liberals are saying that anybody aged 18 and older can have 60 should be listening to the different police forces across Canada, and joints. If it were a child, the Liberals would confiscate it. Under this that It should be listening to health authorities across Canada, all legislation, children between the ages of 12 and 18 will be able to saying that Canada was not ready for this. have five grams, which is 10 joints. What the government is saying The Prime Minister may have smoked some joints or been in the is illogical. room where joints were being smoked while he was the leader of the opposition, which is inappropriate. However, because we can do We should learn from others who have made mistakes. The something does not mean we should do something. The youth government has proposed that we go way beyond what Colorado advisory board overwhelmingly said that the government should did. Our roads will be less safe and there will be more deaths, yet the slow down the process. It is a problem, so it needs to educate youth Liberals are rushing the legislation through before there is any on the risks associated with it. That is how we dealt with the tobacco technology to determine drug-impaired driving. problem, and it has been quite successful. We just dealt with Bill C-46. How will the government get tough Past governments maybe should have done more to address this when somebody gets killed by a drunk driver? There will be a fine of through education. Maybe there should have been research on what at least $1,000 for driving drunk and killing somebody. The second the medical benefits were from marijuana, because it is a problem. offence will result in at least 10 days in jail, a 30-day sentence for The logic of the government is that we have a problem, so let us killing the second time. What the government has proposed is legalize it and that will solve it. bizarre. Our communities will be less safe. This is wrong. ● (1240) In criminology, one can determine what somebody is likely to do I would remind the government that just because a government by past behaviour. It is the same in psychology. It is common sense; can do something does not mean that it should. it is logic. Therefore, why not look at what has happened in other jurisdictions that have legalizing marijuana? Did it make things ● (1245) better or worse? Actually, it made things way worse. The criminal [Translation] connection to the distribution of pot has increased in Colorado. These are the facts and the research that has been done. Mr. Michel Picard (Montarville, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the unfortunate attempts of my colleague across the aisle to show In the years since it was legalized in Colorado, the state has seen that there is a problem by trying to explain why we need to an increase in marijuana-related traffic deaths, in poison control calls decriminalize cannabis. for aid, and in emergency room visits. The marijuana black market has increased in Colorado, not decreased. Numerous Colorado marijuana regulators have been indicted for corruption. In other words, he is telling parents and Canadians in his riding and mine, among others, that there is no problem, we will leave the Dr. Harry Bull, superintendent of Cherry Creek Schools, said, profits to organized crime. We will just give offenders a small fine “We were promised funds from marijuana taxes that would benefit and reduce the penalty. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15201

Government Orders By what lack of logic can they promote the status quo? They have contraband tobacco, because organized crime moves in. On the flip done nothing for 10 years, and they admit that it is a problem. By side, if we try to regulate something like marijuana to stop children what twisted logic can they explain to parents in our ridings that we from getting a hold of it, we kind of end up in a circle where we prefer to keep organized crime in charge rather than taking control as cannot achieve either goal because one is almost fundamentally at we are doing? odds with the other one. [English] Mr. Mark Warawa: Mr. Speaker, the member is quite wrong to The member has mentioned a third option. Could you maybe insult police chiefs and health professionals and say that is bombast. suggest what the Conservative policy is in addressing marijuana and There is a problem. The solution the government is proposing and its use? stubbornly moving ahead with is wrong. Canadians and profes- sionals are telling the government that it is wrong, asking it to please The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Anthony Rota): I will not, reconsider what it is doing. but I am sure the hon. member for Langley—Aldergrove will. As the official opposition, we will work with the government, if it listens to Canadians, the police chiefs, and the health care Mr. Mark Warawa: Mr. Speaker, that is a genuinely important professionals and does the right thing. We would support that. question. We need to have a true study on the possible benefits of However, what it is doing now is foolish and wrong. medical marijuana. There is a lot of opinion on that. We are seriously considering that we should perhaps decriminalize marijuana so it [Translation] could be confiscated and be a ticketable offence. No one should have Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I a criminal record for possession, unless he or she is part of a criminal must address what was just said, because my colleague is offering no element that distributes it to our youth. solution. In fact, he thinks that the status quo will do the job. In his opinion, allowing marijuana to remain illegal, as it has been for decades, works. How can he offer the status quo as a solution? The government proposes that youth would now be able to have it, which is illogical, because its goal is to keep it out of the hands of Can my colleague at least acknowledge that what his government children. However, now it is saying small children can walk around did for 10 years did nothing to improve the situation? In fact, the with 10 joints in their pockets. When they turn 18, they can have 60 situation got worse, since cannabis use increased over the 10-year joints in their pockets. No one should have that in their pockets. period in which his government was in power. How can he stand up today and say he wants to reduce cannabis ● (1250) use, while the strategy his government used for 10 years did absolutely nothing? In fact, it made things worse. How does he [Translation] explain this? [English] Ms. Anne Minh-Thu Quach (Salaberry—Suroît, NDP): Mr. Speaker, Bill C-45 will legalize cannabis use within the limits my Mr. Mark Warawa: Mr. Speaker, the member may have missed colleagues have already mentioned. some of the comments that were made in the House. I do not know why he would have missed those, but he is incorrect. Many decisions fall to the provinces, including the legal age for I think all members in the House realize there is a problem and are using cannabis, the development of a point-of-sale system, and open to discussion to make appropriate changes. The status quo is education. The government is pushing for a very short deadline. We not working. That has been acknowledged by members on all sides are talking about passing this bill before July 1, 2018, which is only of the House. The question is whether the Liberal plan is the right eight months from now. In politics, eight months goes by fast. one. Is it the solution? Professionals are telling us no. Others that have legalized, not even to the degree that the government has proposed, have warned us not to do this because it is wrong. The However, we are still waiting to see how the federal government small revenue the federal and provincial governments would get intends to make sure that the law is applied from Vancouver to St. would be outstripped dramatically by the social and medical costs, so John’s, Newfoundland, by way of Quebec. Despite everything, I it would hurt Canada. think it is very clear that we must go ahead with this bill. I support the legalization of marijuana, provided that it is done effectively and I ask the government to please slow down. that we can prevent the sale of cannabis to children, that a reliable Mr. (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, long-term source of revenue is devoted to public health, prevention CPC): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member's commitment to our and research, and that a comprehensive strategy to fight impaired shared province. The government has proposed legislation that it driving is adopted. feels is the proper approach to legalization. It is doing two things. First, it is saying it is going to keep marijuana out of the hands of We know that the prohibition and criminalization of cannabis, children. Second, it is saying that it is also going to get rid of which the Conservatives have maintained in place in the past 10 organized crime. The problem is this. We have a heavily regulated years, have proven to be completely ineffective in reducing cannabis industry like tobacco, but there is a tremendous amount of use and related criminal activity in Canada. 15202 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders Earlier I touched on the statistics concerning drug-related offences disproportionately affect young people, racialized persons and reported in 2014, when the Conservatives were in power and had aboriginals. I wonder how many criminal records from young already implemented an extremely repressive system with longer people arrested for smoking a joint end up on the desks of my minimum sentences, in an attempt to manage drug use. One year colleagues from Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. How many after the Conservatives passed their repressive laws, cases of applications for pardon do they process each year? methamphetamine and heroine possession had increased by 38% and 34%, respectively. Methamphetamine and heroine trafficking had As elected members, do we not want the Liberal government to increased by 17% and 12%, respectively. fulfill its promise while making the right choice for Canadians, Thus, drug use was not reduced, but actually increased, as did regardless of their age or the colour of their skin, meaning to go trafficking. We need to determine a strategy for making sure that ahead with decriminalization, at the very least, and consider granting those who use cannabis the most, young people aged 25 and under, pardons? I cannot understand why this would be a problem in light are truly taken into consideration, and that we stop hiding our heads of the fact that it appears in the Liberal Party's platform in 2015. in the sand and practising denial. We must realize that the war on drugs has not worked, and that we need to find new solutions. These long overdue amendments will only come into force in 15 months, at the earliest. Delays and lack of resources are causing a We agree with the solution proposed by the Liberals, namely crisis in the justice system. We cannot afford to continue to allocate adopting a public health approach. There are, however, many flaws police and court resources to charging and convicting people for in their approach, hence the need for discussion. Unfortunately, we simple possession of cannabis, a substance that will be legalized in a are already at the third and final reading stage. We are concerned few months. because we proposed several amendments that were rejected out of hand by Liberals at committee. The working group will continue working toward meeting its The government set up a task force, and in their report, the experts objectives, which now focus on youth, prevention and education. on the task force explained that legislation must be enacted to do the The bill must protect Canada's youth by keeping cannabis out of following: their reach, and must ensure that Canadians are well informed reduce the burdens on police and the justice system associated with simple through public health campaigns so that young people especially are possession of cannabis offences; prevent Canadians from entering the criminal made aware of the risks of cannabis use. justice system and receiving criminal records for simple cannabis possession offences; protect public health and safety by strengthening, where appropriate, laws and enforcement measures that deter and punish more serious cannabis Bill C-45 imposes heavy sanctions on whomever traffics, sells or offences... gives cannabis to a minor. How is this a public health matter, I The bill addresses those issues by legalizing the consumption of wonder? First off, we need more scientific research not only on the up to 30 grams of dried cannabis and the possession of up to four short and long-term effects of cannabis use, but also on the plants per household. properties of this plant. Some people already use it for medicinal purposes. We have often heard of patients undergoing chemotherapy However, as I said, the bill is scheduled to come into effect on or veterans using it, for example. July 1, 2018. Around 100,000 people have been given criminal records over the past two years for simple cannabis possession even Since they claim to want to protect youth, will the Liberals though the government is planning to legalize it in less than a year. increase funding for research on the chronic and long-term effects of How many more young people is the government willing to put in consumption on the health of young people in particular? jail for something that will be legal in about 10 months? Will it at least direct the police and judicial authorities to stop enforcing the existing law until such time as the new law is in force? I am also looking at the 2017 budget, which announced a ridiculous budget of less than $2 million per year over five years. The Liberals' own working group was given a recommendation to Last week, it was announced that this budget will be increased to $6 decriminalize marijuana. They do not agree amongst themselves. million per year over five years, but it still totally ridiculous. On top The Prime Minister recently said that granting pardons would of education, awareness campaigns and prevention, we need federal certainly address some of the backlog in the justice system. We know funds for frontline community organizations. Along with the that, since the Jordan decision, a number of investigations have been schools, they will be ready to engage with young people on the halted and charges have not been laid in cases involving offences ground when they want information. However, how will $6 million much more serious than simple marijuana possession. ever be enough to help the millions of community groups in Canada? ● (1255) Will the burden fall on the provinces? It is a fair question. We are going through the same thing with Bill C-45, as they do not want to proceed with decriminalization in the interim. This will If we do a comparison with American states such as Colorado, we only add to the burden on the judicial system and to the monumental are far from doing all we can. Colorado spends nearly $37 million costs associated with arresting people for simple possession. per year in prevention alone. That is seven times what the Canadian government provides for in this major bill on the legalization of Statistics Canada and other organizations have repeatedly marijuana. I would remind members that will happen in less than demonstrated to us that these arrests and ensuing criminal records eight months. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15203

Government Orders I also know very little about what the government intends to do Since the legalization is supposed to happen anyway, why would we with the money that will be made from the sale of marijuana. What allow thousands of young people across the country to have a types of prevention programs will be available? Who will they be criminal record that will prevent them from having a job, buying a targeting? Will there be funding for community groups? We should house, and travelling? That would be a crippling disadvantage for a keep in mind that this is extremely important. young person. The bill also raises a lot of important questions concerning the We are talking only about decriminalizing the simple possession provinces. Will they need additional time to establish their regulatory of marijuana, not about more serious crimes. This is really a matter system? This is another reason why we would have wanted the of nuance. I think that my colleague across the way is very smart and process to start earlier or go beyond July 1, 2018. The issues relating can understand the nuances. to the sale system and the legal framework are also very important to minimize the risks associated with the legalization of marijuana. We hear about increased investments in prevention. Community groups have been calling for this for years now. There is not enough Another issue we need to clarify has to do with the nature of the money. I used to be a teacher, and many young people are falling cannabis tax structure and revenue. How will they be shared among behind in school because they are under the influence of drugs, the provinces and the federal government? The provinces and marijuana being the most popular among young people. I am not Canadians are looking to the Department of Finance to make a sure if my colleague has visited any schools. decision on this issue. In Quebec, Minister Charlebois has already expressed her displeasure about the time granted to the provinces, [English] and Premier Couillard did the same regarding taxation. Ms. Marilyn Gladu (Sarnia—Lambton, CPC): Mr. Speaker, ● (1300) my colleague made many good points. It is clear that the government is not going to achieve its stated objectives with Bill C-45. It is I would like to talk about many other things, but I see that my certainly not going to offload from the criminal justice system, time is up. I want to simply point out that the NDP proposed 38 because there is more criminality in this bill than there was already. It amendments in committee and that all 38 amendments were rejected. is certainly not going to keep cannabis out of the hands of children, That is rather absurd. because it would allow home grow, and it is certainly not going to [English] get rid of organized crime. Mr. Bill Blair (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of If we want to implement something, we tend to look at who else Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of did this and who else did it with positive results. If we look at Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin with a point of Washington State, it actually reduced organized crime to less than clarification for the member. I thank her for her conditional support 20%. Young children there are finding it hard to get hold of for Bill C-45. I want to simply advise her that the government has, in marijuana. What did it do? It did not allow home grow, except for the fact, announced $46 million for a public education program that will medically fragile, and it controlled all the distribution. It took its begin to roll out very shortly. I hope that addresses one of her medical marijuana system, which was very well regulated, and concerns. expanded it. I seek clarification from the member. She has stated that she It seems to me that this bill falls really short in many areas, but supports decriminalization, but let us be really clear about what especially in the area of public awareness. There was clear testimony decriminalization is. Decriminalization maintains the prohibition and that we needed to get on that. We only have 234 days left before the simply replaces the criminal sanction with a civil penalty: a ticketing government would arbitrarily roll things out. Can the member scheme with a fine. In an environment in which the prohibition comment on the public education needed? remains, one cannot regulate the substance. ● (1305) When the member described her vision of decriminalization, she said that the law would not be enforced, not that it would be enforced [Translation] in a different way with a different outcome, a civil penalty. I submit Ms. Anne Minh-Thu Quach: Mr. Speaker, indeed, as my to the member opposite that what she was describing was, in fact, colleague just pointed out, not enough is being invested in legalization without regulation. prevention or in awareness and education campaigns. We want [Translation] young people to understand that our intention here is not to normalize marijuana use, but rather to educate them about its effects. Ms. Anne Minh-Thu Quach: Mr. Speaker, the Liberals have There is also not enough being invested in research on long-term use once again shown that they do not listen at all to the NDP's and the effects of chronic use on young people's health. The Liberals recommendations. need to invest more money in that area. I cannot say enough about First, my colleague announced $45 million. However, that is over the importance of prevention, and my colleague talked about it too. a five-year period, which means about $9 million per year, total, and that includes all the drugs in Canada, not just marijuana. In addition, we need to stop criminalizing and increasing penalties for the simple possession of cannabis. Many studies have shown that As for his argument on decriminalization, we recommend that the the war on drugs did not work. Over the past 10 years, drug use and government decriminalize marijuana while waiting for its legaliza- drug trafficking have continued to rise. We need to work harder and tion in eight months. We are not asking for either one or the other. change our strategy. 15204 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders [English] disorders, such as schizophrenia, depression, and anxiety, by up to Mr. (Markham—Unionville, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I 30% compared to those who have not used marijuana under the age rise today to speak on an issue I care deeply about. I am thankful to of 25. Is this what we want for our children? This is most certainly have the opportunity to speak to Bill C-45. This is a piece of not what I want for my children, my constituents, or Canadians. For legislation that pertains to an issue very close to my heart. Today, I these reasons, the Canadian Medical Association and various other am going to speak to why Bill C-45 cannot be passed. medical professionals recommended increasing the age at which a person can consume marijuana to 21 at the very least. The I want to provide some context. Marijuana is a dangerous drug. government would fail our children if it goes through with this With all the pro-marijuana publicity lately, it can be hard for many proposed legislation. Canadians to remember that marijuana is indeed a damaging and addictive drug. Further, it causes harmful effects on youth brain development, and a greater incidence of psychosis and schizo- ● (1310) phrenia. The Conservatives oppose this legislation on marijuana in Canada. The second goal the Liberals claim would be achieved through the Our opposition is based on the concerns we heard from scientists, bill would be regulating the industry. I will explain why they will not doctors, and law enforcement officials, who said that the govern- reach this goal either. ment's plan is being rushed through without proper planning or consideration for the negative consequences of such complicated legislation. Bill C-45 would allow for four plants per household with no height restriction on the plants. If grown in optimal conditions, this Most concerning is that this bill does not keep marijuana out of could yield as much as 600 grams of marijuana. The vast majority of the hands of children, nor does it eliminate organized crime or witnesses at the health committee spoke strongly against home grow address issues with impaired driving. in their testimony, including most medical groups and the police forces that appeared. Canada will be in violation of three international treaties if this bill passes. The three UN treaties to which Canada is a signatory are as follows: the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, the 1971 Allowing home grow will most certainly not regulate the industry. Convention on Psychotropic Substances, and the 1988 Convention Further, the police have said before the health committee that, against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances. because they cannot see inside homes, they would be unable to This legislation will be compromising Canada's integrity on the enforce a four-plant household quota. Even more concerning is that a world stage. How can Canada hold other countries to account on large network of legal home grows could easily become an their treaty obligations when Canada does not honour its own? organized crime network. This would not be regulating the industry. Almost daily, I hear about another new report on the harmful It would not eliminate the black market. It is internally inconsistent. effects of marijuana, yet the Liberal government refuses to consider the mounting evidence and is recklessly pushing ahead with this This brings me back to my worry for our youth. The bill would legislation. The government claims it wants to protect our youth and not keep marijuana out of the hands of youth, which is one of the that this legislation will be regulating the industry and eliminating stated goals of the bill in clause 7(a). If marijuana is in the home, the black market. However, Bill C-45 will not accomplish even one youth will have access to it, not to mention the issue of impaired of these goals. The Liberal government is not listening to medical driving, which will increase as a result of legalization. professionals. It is not listening to the police forces. It is not even listening to concerned Canadians who believe this bill is fundamentally flawed and is being rushed through Parliament in There is currently no instrument that can accurately measure the order to meet an arbitrary and irresponsible deadline. level of marijuana impairment roadside. Canada is unable to train For these reasons and many more, I am entirely opposed to this officers at home on how to recognize marijuana-impaired driving. legislation. When it comes to our youth, I want to ensure that they We do not have the technology or resources, so the government are safe, and able to have a better life and more opportunities than we needs to send officers for expensive, lengthy training in the United did. Allowing easier access to drugs does not achieve that. States. Our police forces do not currently have the resources and the training required to manage the increased threat of impaired driving Currently, the bill recommends the age of 18 as a federal associated with the legalization of marijuana. This training currently minimum. However, the provinces are being given the power to set a has backlogs and wait lists. Canada is not ready for this. higher age. If we look to our southern neighbour the United States, the states of Washington and Colorado, which have legalized marijuana, have used the age of 21 as the minimum. As of now, As it stands, the proposed legislation is not what is best for Ontario says it will set its minimum age at 19, and Alberta at 21. Canadians. Canadian families expect safe and healthy communities This is not safe. A number of medical professionals have testified in which to raise their children. Elected representatives can and that the brain continues to develop until the age of 25. According to should provide guidance on drugs to reflect the views of all the Canadian Medical Association, the increased use of marijuana Canadians. Let us all remember that we are talking about the health before the age of 25 increases one's risk of developing mental and safety of Canadians, and they deserve better. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15205

Government Orders There are only 233 days to go until the arbitrary date of July 1, keeps going to schools? What happens to people who drive to work 2018. Let us not rush through this proposed legislation. We need to impaired and show up at work impaired? What about the accidents? do what is right for Canadians. The provinces, municipalities, and Who will pick up the tab for police? According to the Colorado police forces are not ready to implement this legislation. I cannot report, it tripled the cost for policing, tripled the cost for paramedics, support Bill C-45. and doubled or tripled homelessness. ● (1315) [Translation] Mr. Michel Picard (Montarville, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his comments. I think that his concerns are valid, from a scientific and medical perspective. The government has not done the homework. It is pushing the bill However, the problem I want to point out to him is that we have a through quickly, it is not ready, police are not ready, and people are larger population of 18-to-25-year-olds who use this product, and not ready, they are not educated. Conservatives are simply asking the that is illegal. How will setting the legal age right in the middle of Liberal government to go back to the table and rethink the whole the 18-to-25 bracket solve the problem for those who are 18 to 21? thing. Why the hurry for July 1, 2018? We should be celebrating [English] Canada's birthday on that day. Why is it being pushed through? Mr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Speaker, there are many issues in solving this problem. The hon. member for Scarborough Southwest was the police chief for the metro police. He probably jailed 200,000 or 300,000 people. It was the honourable thing to make sure that the youth understood ● (1320) that this drug is bad, and it could be an issue with their mental development and many other issues. I think this is more Liberal hypocrisy, since the Prime Minister smoked it, as he said. His brother and other family members smoked it. This is just pushing it down the throats of all Canadians. I think it is simply wrong to push through somebody else's personal beliefs. Mr. (Brandon—Souris, CPC): Mr. Speaker, This is another reason we simply will not support the bill. today the House deals with one of the largest changes regarding Mr. Wayne Stetski (Kootenay—Columbia, NDP): Mr. Speaker, controlled substances in my lifetime. Throughout the debate on the last year, I held a telephone town hall and 3,300 of my constituents larger issue of legalizing recreational marijuana, I have discovered stayed on the phone for an hour to hear from a panel I had put that the issue is not as black and white as some members have put together, an addictions expert, a municipal official, and a retailer, forward in their arguments. I agree with many of the points my who were trying to deal with some of the challenges. They produced colleague from Markham—Unionville raised. However, I said that it a list of questions and concerns, which I then submitted to the is not as black and white, and I will give an example. Every time the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Health, who were able to put Liberal MPs talk about how marijuana legalization would keep the together a very nice report that is available to my constituents. The substance out of the hands of youth, it is asinine. For anyone to think number one thing that came out of all of that was a concern about the that youth currently do not have ready access to illegal marijuana is safety of children and the public. From my perspective certainly, we also rather absurd. I am well aware that Canada has some of the need to make sure that a lot of money goes into education moving highest rates of adolescent marijuana consumption in the world. It is forward to try to deal not only with the issues associated with available far too often in our high schools and I have heard horrible marijuana use but also to keep the public safe. stories of how marijuana consumption has led to disastrous life decisions. If the member does not agree with the path that the Liberal government is currently on, what is the best way to keep Canadians safe moving forward since mandatory sentences certainly have not worked in the past? What does he see as a way to keep Canadians safer going forward? Mr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Speaker, I held town hall meetings last year and 98% of people said no to this legislation in Markham— This can also be said of alcohol. It can also be said of crystal meth, Unionville. Many questions came out, such as how we would fentanyl, and cocaine. I do not for a moment believe that marijuana educate kids, what is bad, and how much the budget will be if it is is in the same column as the illegal substances I just referenced, and legalized. After this legislation goes through, what happens if it is not my intention to degrade those who consume marijuana for somebody has a glass of beer, smokes cannabis, and has an accident? recreational purposes. My intent is to emphasize that we parlia- The police cannot deal with what they are handling today; imagine mentarians should wade very carefully into legalization of recrea- the burden on police. What happens to a kid who eats a brownie at tional marijuana, which would soon allow every household in home that had marijuana oil, or other things in it? What if dope Canada to grow four plants. 15206 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I have carefully reviewed many of the submissions to the health Not a single member of this House has any idea what the rules committee, such as by the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, will be in their communities, because their municipal governments the Canadian Medical Association, the Canadian Nurses' Associa- have yet to determine what they will be. It will cost serious money tion, and the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. These are just a for municipal governments to properly train their law enforcement handful of the over 185 briefs tabled with committee members, and and bylaw officers, and even more, they will not receive adequate in many respects the concerns these well-respected organizations put financial assistance to do so. They will be stuck with all of the forward were almost identical to those voiced by my constituents headaches, while the Prime Minister, on Canada Day, will proclaim during the five town halls I hosted on this topic this summer. that marijuana is now legal.

The best way to describe Bill C-45 is by quoting a Brandon Sun article published the morning after one of our town halls. I can assure those who think the Brandon Sun is under the umbrella of Postmedia To expand on my recommendations to the government, the that it is not. The article stated, “If a consensus could be drawn from majority of my constituents believe that the federal government a wide-ranging town hall in Brandon about the proposed legalization should not look to marijuana as a cash cow, but should provide a of marijuana, it’s an acknowledgement the legislation is flawed.” significant portion of the federal taxes it collects from marijuana directly to municipalities in the same manner as it does with the gas I fully agree with what the article said. That is why I submitted a tax fund. brief not only to the justice and health ministers, but also to the entire committee tasked with studying this legislation. It was not surprising, but still unfortunate, to report that I received a boiler- plate response from the Minister of Justice that did not even For any of my colleagues who believe that police and law acknowledge the recommendations I put forward. If a duly elected enforcement agencies will see cost savings from the legalization of member of Parliament cannot even get the correspondence team in recreational marijuana, it would be naive at best to think that such a the Minister of Justice's office to go above and beyond just copying highly regulated, controlled substance that will have even more and pasting a response, it begs the question of whether the current strings attached to it than alcohol will somehow free up their time. government has any intention of listening to concerned Canadians. Any time a government has decided to legislate, regulate, and For a government that pretends it listens, the only way to get its control something, I have failed to see the resulting cost savings. members to back down from a proposal is for thousands upon thousands of angry taxpayers to show up en masse at town halls and write some of the funniest tweets I have ever read. For example, during the taxpayers' revolt this summer, many farmers took pictures Regardless of the flaws of this piece of legislation, there is still no of themselves sitting in their combines while harvesting, referring to overall consensus among my constituents that marijuana should be them as their tax shelters. legalized for recreational use. There were many questions about the effects on someone's cognitive abilities and the lack of general I ask the government not only to implement my recommended education about its long-term impacts. change to push back the bringing-into-force date of Bill C-45 to 2019, but also that its members listen to the brief by the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, which stated, “Canadian police services will not be equipped to provide officers with the training While we debate this legislation and put a heavy emphasis on and resources necessary to enforce the new regime within the educating our youth, we must not forget that millions of middle-aged existing contemplated timeframe,” or to the Canadian Medical adults have next to zero experience with recreational marijuana and, Association, which recommended a comprehensive public health therefore, that any educational programs must include this demo- strategy with a health education component before Bill C-45 is graphic. implemented. ● (1325)

If the government thinks that police services, the medical It is absolutely imperative that the legalization of recreational community, and our education system will be ready within the next marijuana not be rushed until the various law enforcement agencies, six months, and that municipalities and provinces will be fully provinces, and municipalities are fully prepared. prepared for July 1, I would humbly remind it on its own part, two years later, it still cannot accurately pay public service employees.

It is sad to say, but the government's credibility in implementing I urge the government to rethink how the tax revenues will be and executing effective policies within a reasonable time frame is not distributed to those who will have to absorb many of the costs of that believable. My hon. colleagues across the way have essentially regulating and policing marijuana use. I ask the federal government ignored the plea by provinces and municipalities for more time to to heed the advice of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities not properly prepare for the government's politically driven July 1 to move forward with this legislation until it receives further deadline. direction from its municipal partners. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15207

Government Orders In closing, I am under no illusion that the government has any Why the rush? If they need more time, they have lots of it. They intention of listening to the concerns of the good people of Brandon could do that and still put in place the proper analysis and training —Souris. It would be an understatement to say that I have that police forces across Canada have asked for. The medical hesitations regarding the legalization of recreational marijuana. association has given them that background as well. Regardless of my personal trepidations, it is clear that the country is not ready for the July 1, 2018 implementation date. It is my hope that even if the government ignores every other concern or recommenda- tion put forward, either by me or stakeholders, that it at the very least There are many reasons to take more time, such as those relayed would push back the bringing-into-force date to allow more time to by the nursing association and the Federation of Canadian properly prepare for legalization. Municipalities, which are going to have all of these costs dumped on them. This government is not going to make any money out of With that I will finish my remarks and urge my Liberal colleagues this process. In spite of that, the Liberals are trying to suggest to the to break ranks with their whip and the government to listen to its public that they need this money to bail themselves out of their huge local law enforcement agencies, provinces, and municipalities to do debts. The government is not going to make a cent on this because it the right thing. will all be used up in enforcement and administration. Mr. Bill Blair (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the hon. member for Brandon—Souris that we listened very carefully, particularly to the Mr. Richard Cannings (South Okanagan—West Kootenay, point he made about ensuring that learning and education are NDP): Mr. Speaker, I think everyone here agrees that we all want to available to all Canadians who may choose to use this drug. There make Canada a safer place, and we all want our young people to be are significant risks that need to be properly managed and that could safer and healthier. However, I think we would also all agree that the help people stay safe. situation as it stands is untenable.

I want to address some of the concerns he raised about what we have heard from law enforcement. I have been engaged in that conversation for almost two years and want to share it briefly with I am just wondering what my Conservative colleagues are the member. offering up as an alternative to this pathway to legalization of marijuana. What did they do in the previous 10 years that helped the First of all, in 2008, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police situation, and what do they offer up for the future? unanimously urged the government of the day to make resources available for the training of drug recognition experts, and for all officers in standardized field sobriety testing. That plea fell on deaf ears. Mr. Larry Maguire: Mr. Speaker, of course, that is exactly what I am speaking of today. After listening to the people at the five town Second, in 2013, by unanimous declaration in CACP's resolu- hall meetings and other events I attended throughout the summer in tions, they again urged the government to make available to them my riding, I felt it necessary to offer the plan that I did. oral fluid testing technology, acknowledging that this technology was being used in other jurisdictions to help keep our roadways safe. That fell on deaf ears as well.

Additionally, very important public safety advocacy groups, such I even sent a letter to the parliamentary budget officer back in as Mothers Against Drunk Driving, urged the government to bring June, before the House rose for the summer, requesting all of the forward effective legislation to address some of these concerns and, information around Bill C-45 and the enforcement bill, Bill C-46. I prior to 2015, that plea fell on deaf ears. had many questions about how much money would be spent on enforcement, what would be needed for administration, and how it Therefore, we have listened to the concerns of law enforcement. would be done. I had two pages of questions. We got back a reply We have made available $161 million to provide them with training, from the parliamentary budget office that basically said that the resources, and access to technology and legal authorities that they government had the information but had not given it to them, and have asked for. When they came before us, naturally, after a decade thus they could give none to me. of being ignored, they were skeptical. However, we have assured them that we are making those resources available to them and that they will have what they need to keep our communities safe. I find that atrocious. If the money to be made in this process is ● (1330) broadcast, and then the government is so ashamed of the results that Mr. Larry Maguire: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's it cannot even put out there what it will cost, including concern, but it is the biggest oxymoron I have ever heard. They administratively, it shows that the government does not know what obviously have not listened to what the Canadian public has said, those costs are, that this process has been done too quickly without and they are the ones bringing forward the licensing of recreational the necessary detail behind it, just like the government has done with marijuana. its small business tax program. 15208 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders Mr. Len Webber (Calgary Confederation, CPC): Mr. Speaker, if we are going to achieve the primary results we want—and that is I rise today to contribute to the debate on Bill C-45, which proposes to reduce marijuana use and lower youth consumption—then we to legalize recreational marijuana use here in Canada. The medicinal need to educate Canadians well in advance of the proposed July 1, use of marijuana in Canada is, of course, already permitted when 2018, legalization timeline set by the Liberal government. prescribed by a doctor, and I support that measure. However, what Unfortunately, there has been no real education campaign started we are considering here today is the recreational use of marijuana, by the government, and time is running out. using drugs for fun. (1335) The health committee, on which I serve, heard in September from ● more than 100 witnesses from across Canada and from all parts of the world. They presented their thoughts and their concerns on a It has not gone unnoticed that we are spending a great deal of time number of issues related to the legalization of marijuana. We heard and money to legalize marijuana, but very little time and money on a from many who literally called marijuana a miracle drug, a miracle public education campaign. An immediate public education plan is antidote for relieving and in some cases eliminating conditions such critical. The Liberal government claims it has committed $46 million as epileptic seizures, migraine headaches, post-traumatic stress to a plan, but I have not seen it in my community. I have talked to disorder, anxiety, depression, arthritis, and I can go on. The health care people in my community, and they have not seen a dime testimony from these individuals was heartening. of that. Even hearing about the option for physicians to be able to prescribe marijuana instead of opioids such as OxyContin and Even the former Liberal cabinet minister and head of the task fentanyl for treating chronic pain is enough to convince many that force on cannabis, the Honourable Anne McLellan, said at medicinal marijuana has a place in our society. However, Canada is committee: now on the verge of normalizing recreational marijuana use, and we have heard a number of serious concerns from a variety of I think the most important part of prevention, which we have learned from stakeholders. tobacco, alcohol, and probably some other things—I might include gambling—is public education. That's the lesson you hear over and over again in states like A couple of weeks ago I spoke at length on Bill C-46 and the issue Colorado and Washington. You have to have robust public education, and you need it of drug-impaired driving, so I will not reiterate what I said back then, out of the box early. but I will say that drug-impaired driving is of deep concern to many, and we heard that day in and day out at committee. I will focus on a couple of other serious concerns. Not a single witness in committee advocated against an early and intense public education campaign, so why is the Liberal govern- As we have heard many times, there are many studies that show ment not starting now with an education campaign? marijuana does have a negative impact on the developing brain. The Canadian Medical Association, which represents 83,000 physicians in Canada, said: Another serious concern that was brought forward in committee is the impact the proposed legislation would have on Canada in the Existing evidence on marijuana points to the importance of protecting the brain during its development. Since that development is only finalized by about 25 years of eyes of the world. We heard in committee that there are three United age, this would be an ideal minimum age based on currently accepted scientific Nations international treaties that we are bound to violate if this evidence... legislation is passed. Last month at the World Psychiatric Association's world congress in Berlin, the community was presented with further evidence that We heard great testimony from Dr. Steven Hoffman, who is a marijuana use by youth can facilitate the onset of schizophrenia and professor law at the prestigious Osgoode Hall Law School. He is other psychosis conditions in certain people. Complications may also an expert in international law. He is very concerned, as are we include cognitive impairment, social isolation, and even suicide. Conservatives, that Bill C-45 would in fact violate international These are the doctors who are talking. These are the physicians, laws. The United Nations Convention against Illicit Traffic in the scientists, and the health care providers who are saying this. The Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances of 1988 is one of the reality is that not all our youth are aware of this body of scientific three major UN drug control treaties currently in force that we as a research and so they are not making informed decisions when it nation have signed onto and committed to. The treaty provides comes to marijuana drug use, and that has to change. It is imperative additional legal mechanisms for enforcing the 1961 Single that we inform our young people that using this drug, marijuana, will Convention on Narcotic Drugs and the 1971 Convention on likely have serious, permanent, and negative effects on their brain Psychotropic Substances, which is to limit exclusively to medical and their mental health. and scientific purposes the production, manufacture, export, import, distribution of, trade in, use, and possession of drugs. Without question, the largest single concern that we heard at the health committee is the Liberal government's complete failure to properly execute a public education campaign. The passing of Bill C-45 would put us in contravention of these three UN international agreements. The Liberal government has In just eight months, we will most likely have marijuana for sale failed to tell Canadians how it will handle the situation. It should tell as a fun recreational drug. Is that not great? Witnesses testified that, us, but it has refused to. As Dr. Hoffman said: November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15209

Government Orders I really would love to emphasize that the consequences actually are quite severe I am very passionate about this issue, as many of us are here in the in the sense that it's not just our reputation. It's not just Canada's standing on the House. global international scene. If we violate international law we are actually undermining the best mechanism we have to get countries to work together and solve some of the biggest challenges we face in the world. One only needs to think I have a background in education. My family runs a private school about examples like serious use of chemical weapons, or North Korea testing nuclear in Calgary, the Webber Academy. There are more than 1,000 weapons, or even closer to home, the United States imposing illegal trade barriers children in our school. We care about these children. We care about against softwood lumber. Canada wants to be in a position that we are able to rely on our fellow countries, our partners around the world, to follow these rules that make informing them and educating them about the harmful effects of Canadians safer, that make Canadian businesses prosper, yet it's very difficult for marijuana, yet it is not happening in the school system. It is not in Canada to be taking moral stances on international laws if Canada is also violating the curriculum. If it is, it is not enough. them. The public education plan that we need should have happened two We are not ready as a nation to rush into marijuana legalization, years ago in anticipation of this bill passing by July 1. It is too late. and the consequences will be severe. By the time the government legislates the bill into place, marijuana ● (1340) will be on the streets, with uneducated children throughout the Mrs. Celina Caesar-Chavannes (Parliamentary Secretary to country unaware of the harmful effects of this drug. the Minister of International Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I Mr. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith (Beaches—East York, Lib.): Mr. appreciate my hon. colleague's concern for education. We are taking Speaker, my friend just mentioned harms. Three thousand Canadians a public safety approach with Bill C-45, with $240 million to support are born every year with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. That is law enforcement to detect and deter drug-impaired driving, $161 3,000 Canadians and just one issue. That is not counting drunk invested in training front-line officers, another $81 million for driving. That is not counting domestic abuse. That is not counting provinces and territories, and $46 million for a public awareness rape and sexual assault, including on campuses, and all of the harms campaign. Does he not agree that this is a comprehensive approach that come from alcohol. to providing education and training? Perhaps the member could explain to me why he thinks cannabis, ● (1345) according to the evidence, is more harmful than alcohol. Why does Mr. Len Webber: Mr. Speaker, I welcome the investment, he think we ought to throw young Canadians in jail for having a because we need it, and law enforcement agencies need it. They told joint, but it is okay to allow glossy flyers to come to my doorstep us at committee that they welcome the money but they need time, advertising alcohol? and they do not have enough time. July 1 is eight months away. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police and numerous associations Mr. Len Webber: It is well known, Mr. Speaker. Testimony given around the country are thankful for the money but they need time. by the Canadian Medical Association stated all about the very harmful effects marijuana has on the developing brains of youth. We Mr. Kevin Waugh (Saskatoon—Grasswood, CPC): Mr. Speak- all know that. er, I want to commend the hon. member for Calgary Confederation for all the work he has done on this issue. He has been a shining star If we smoke marijuana during the brain development period in our party and on the health committee for a couple of years. between zero and 25 years of age, we are highly susceptible to conditions that could occur. I am talking about the recreational use of Canadians will be facing a very serious situation in the next eight marijuana. It will create a lot of problems for the mental health of months. children at this age. I was a trustee for 10 years. There has been no dialogue with the government. It has not reached out to the Canadian School Boards There is clear scientific evidence that marijuana causes schizo- Association. It has not reached out to one province or territory with phrenia in individuals with a developing brain. Schizophrenia has respect to how it is going to deal with 12-year-olds bringing five been blamed for many— grams to school in their pockets. The government has not reached ● (1350) out to teachers' associations in this country, and yet we are eight months away. [Translation]

The Liberals have a simple answer. They are going to throw some The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Anthony Rota): Resuming money at it and leave the decisions to others. There is no game plan. debate. The hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska— Rivière-du-Loup has 10 minutes for his speech. He will have five I thank the hon. member for Calgary Confederation for bringing minutes for questions and comments when we resume debate on this this up. Education is first and foremost. bill.

I ask my colleague how he thinks the government should deal The hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska— with this, other than throwing money at it, which is two years too Rivière-du-Loup. late. Mr. Bernard Généreux (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska Mr. Len Webber: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. —Rivière-du-Loup, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am honoured and very member for Saskatoon—Grasswood for his kind comments. They proud to represent the people of Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska are much appreciated. —Rivière-du-Loup. 15210 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders When I was elected, I started touring my riding. In the spring, I Mr. Bernard Généreux: Mr. Speaker, Obviously, the party across visited our schools to explain what the Government of Canada was, the aisle does not want to listen to what we have to say. There were the way it worked, and the process of passing a bill. Since at that studies in committee; we were asked to propose amendments. The time the Liberal Party had already introduced the possibility of NDP proposed 36 amendments, all of which were rejected, one after passing a bill to legalize marijuana, that was the example of a bill the other. The Liberals are calling us out for not proposing any that I used. We already had an idea of what this bill was, and I spoke amendments, but what is the point of doing so when we know that about it openly, mostly to primary and secondary school students, as the bill is going to stay the way it is? well as CEGEP students.

At some of these meetings I led in 10 different schools, I talked to Here is another example of the absolute hypocrisy of this bill. It 300 students between the ages of 12 and16 in an auditorium. I mentions the cultivation of four marijuana plants at home. I raised presented them the bill as it was written. I explained to them that it my children at home, and they are raising their children at home. I legalized the production of marijuana at home, among other things, am trying to imagine having four marijuana plants at home and and that it did not contain meaningful provisions addressing drug- explaining to the children that they are not to touch them. That impaired driving. In short, by discussing the various elements of the would be really confusing for them. It is total hypocrisy. How can we bill, I asked the students to tell me, by raising their hand, if they protect children when people can grow marijuana at home? agreed with the legalization of marijuana.

To my amazement, 80% of the young people in my riding raised When you do the math, people looking to really maximize their their hands to say they did not agree. These were not seniors in yield can grow quite a lot of marijuana in six weeks with four plants. homes, these were students. I was stunned because I thought that the I did the math, but I do not have the exact figures with me. However, Prime Minister's sunny ways would have encouraged open-mind- it takes about six to eight weeks. Imagine that over 52 weeks. There edness and the liberalization of pretty much everything. However, can be many harvests over the course of a year, which holds these young people unequivocally showed me that they did not at all tremendous financial potential. I can just imagine young children at agree with legalizing marijuana, for all kinds of reasons. This also home helping their parents water the pot plants because they want to gave us more opportunities for discussion. sell them later on. That is obvious. Can we be so blind as to think that young people will not help themselves directly from the plants at That said, I was also able to meet with groups of seniors, home? including members of all the senior citizen clubs in my riding, and some groups of farm women. These women do a lot of work with young people, since they train them for all kinds of trades. All these The other concern is that we keep hearing that this will reduce groups are in daily contact with young people. They also told me organized crime. I have a report from Colorado, where marijuana unequivocally that they oppose the legalization of marijuana. was legalized four years ago. There has been an increase in organized crime. There is a reason why it is called organized crime. I have no words to describe the government’s level of hypocrisy These people are able to react and adapt to situations like these. with this bill, which would be in violation of three international Legalizing marijuana will increase organized criminal activity, not treaties, among other things. The government claims to respect the decrease it. UN and to abide by international treaties. It says that it works all over the world and that it has taken all sorts of steps to ensure international consistency, and yet this bill is in violation of three Worse still, this bill does not deal with cannabis derivatives at all. major international treaties on drug control. Apparently, that is no In Colorado, these derivatives are now more profitable for the big deal. government in terms of sales and taxes, than the sale of marijuana itself. What are we going to do in Canada? People have already Also, the Liberals keep on boasting that their actions are based on started asking me if they will have access to derivatives. Will they be science and the facts. That is what they have been telling us non stop sold in the equivalent of SAQ in Quebec and LCBO in Ontario? If for the past two years, and yet, the science is quite clear— employees are making $25 an hour, what will be the price of the Some hon. members: Oh, oh! marijuana? I can understand that the quality would perhaps be the same across Canada, but the reality is that organized crime will only ● (1355) increase the rate of THC in the marijuana and drop its prices. It will [English] not stop selling it. It will increase its sales, even. This is the reality. This is what could happen. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Anthony Rota): I would like to remind the hon. members that there is a presentation being made. I am hearing a bit of rumble, and I am having a hard time We have talked about training and information. This is ridiculous. hearing it. Out of respect for the Speaker, who is getting old and The Liberals are barely allocating any funds, only $40 million over a whose hearing is going, I would like members to keep the talking a five-year period. They have just invested $500 million in an little lower. infrastructure bank in China. This money was spent outside of [Translation] Canada. They should have invested it here for training and prevention. This is not what is happening at all. An investment of The hon. member has the floor. $40 million for the whole country is peanuts for prevention. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15211

Statements by Members The Liberals accepted not a single amendment. We proposed only in peacekeeping missions. These new plaques will serve as a one, which aimed to scrap the bill and start again from scratch. The reminder for future generations that freedom is not free. I am so problem is that the government across the way does not listen to us proud of these students and their efforts to ensure that we honour at all. The Liberals gave no consideration to the NDP's 38 proposed those who, in their service to our country and our communities, paid amendments. I am certain NDP MPs came up with some very well the ultimate sacrifice. thought out amendments to improve the bill. The Liberals thinks that they know everything on that. I cannot believe it. To those who continue the fight today, whether in our People can hear us and see us from the gallery. I am convinced communities or on the battlefields overseas, or who suffer quietly that not all of them are in favour of legalizing marijuana. In my in the shadows, we shall never forget. riding, 80% of the people who responded to a survey said they were opposed to legalization. Our government does not listen at all; it just *** says everything will be fine and we should proceed. REMEMBRANCE DAY I could talk about this issue for hours. Once again, the government is being completely hypocritical on this issue. Hon. Mark Eyking (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, ● (1400) today I rise to honour those who have served our country over the The Speaker: There will be five minutes for questions and last 100 years. Over a million men and women have served our comments following question period. country to make peace around the world. Thousands have come from my home of Cape Breton.

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS Since I became a member of Parliament in 2000, I have had the honour of visiting gravesites throughout the world of the many who [English] gave the ultimate sacrifice and did not come back. I have visited gravesites in Normandy, Vimy Ridge, the Netherlands, and Hong JOHN SHIWAK Kong. We must always remember those who gave their lives for our Ms. (Labrador, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased freedom. to stand today to proudly acknowledge the many contributions of our veterans and the service of Inuit veterans in Canada. They have It is important that we help those who come home, and it was an served our country with the utmost courage, bravery, and respect. honour for me to be with the Prime Minister, the Minister of One shining example of the efforts of the Royal Newfoundland Veterans Affairs, and many of my colleagues in this House to reopen Regiment was Jack Shiwak, of my riding of Labrador, an Inuit from the Veterans Affairs office in Sydney at this time last year. the community of Rigolet. Mr. Shiwak is remembered as the regiment's best sharpshooter, and it is said he credited his feat to the I commend all my colleagues in this House who will go home time he spent trapping, hunting, and fishing on the vast lands and over the next few days and attend events in their ridings with waters of Labrador. At only 26, John entered the war effort and veterans and constituents. Let us never forget the ultimate sacrifice quickly rose through the ranks, ultimately becoming a lance our men and women made for us, and continue to make for us every corporal. Sadly, on November 20, 1917, John and six other members day. All gave some; some gave all. of his regiment were killed in battle. His loss was keenly felt by the whole regiment. *** Today we remember him. We remember all our veterans. We continue to feel their loss, and we support their families throughout TRANSGENDER DAY OF REMEMBRANCE our country. Mr. (Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, NDP): *** Mr. Speaker, today we are hearing many moving statements on REMEMBRANCE DAY Remembrance Day, but this afternoon I rise to mark another day of remembrance: the Transgender Day of Remembrance on November Mr. (Cariboo—Prince George, CPC): Mr. 20. People in communities across Canada and around the world will Speaker, as we approach the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th be remembering victims of transphobic violence and rededicating month, let us all be thankful for all we have. themselves to working to end discrimination against transgender and Across our nation, Canadians will pause to honour the sacrifices gender-variant people. of those who have given so much for our freedom. Remembrance Day serves to educate our youth and future generations that the Last year there were 317 reported murders of trans people, and rights and privileges we enjoy do not come without sacrifice. That is many more were victims of violence and discrimination. This why I am so proud to stand in this House today and recognize the includes the murder of Sisi Thibert in Montreal, on September 19. hard work of the grades five and six students from Kersley Despite hopeful signs that came this week with the election of Elementary School. They raised money to buy three plaques several transgender people to public office in the United States, there honouring those who fought in the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan, and have still been 23 murders of transgender Americans so far this year. 15212 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Statements by Members On this Transgender Day of Remembrance, we in Canada can MARGARET ROSE KURY point to Bill C-16, which guarantees the same rights and protections Mr. Dan Ruimy (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, Lib.): Mr. in law that all other Canadians already enjoy, but it is clear that much Speaker, in a few days it will be a day of remembrance, where we more remains to be done to build a more inclusive Canada, one honour each and every Canadian who has served and fought for his where transgender and gender-variant Canadians can participate or her country, Canadians like Margaret Rose Kury, who was from fully, on an equal basis, and without fear. my riding of Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge and was a champion of hard work. She was a selfless, loving individual, and a veteran who *** served in the Canadian Armed Forces. Since 1976, she had been an ● (1405) active member of the Royal Canadian Legion. CANADA-MACEDONIA PARLIAMENTARY FRIENDSHIP Even after Margaret retired, she continued to serve by being GROUP involved in multiple organizations and devoted her time by visiting local schools to talk about the importance of Remembrance Day. She Mr. (Cambridge, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, recently I had was a passionate and unwavering woman, who worked tirelessly as the pleasure to host the inaugural meeting of the Canada-Macedonia she touched thousands of lives, and made a difference with every Parliamentary Friendship Group. A number of MPs came out to step she took. support this group, and we had the pleasure of hearing from His Excellency, Toni Dimovski, the Macedonian ambassador to Canada. In August, sadly, Margaret passed away, after spending over 40 I was proud to be elected chair of this group, and I am looking years serving our community. forward to continuing the exchange of ideas and culture between our two countries. We are working toward hosting an event for all On this Remembrance Day, I would like to ask everyone to parliamentarians in the coming year. honour and remember inspiring veterans like Margaret Rose Kury. *** Building partnerships and connecting with the world is integral to how Canada operates on the world stage. Macedonia has strong ties [Translation] to my riding of Cambridge, and many residents are among the BOWVEMBER 40,000 Macedonian Canadians calling our country home. I thank everyone who has supported this friendship group. Mr. (Hull—Aylmer, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to rise today to talk about the only charity in Quebec Blagodaram. entirely devoted to fighting prostrate cancer. Procure is an organization that specializes in research, awareness, information, *** and support for men and their families.

BRANDON MARLINS As hon. members know, I am a proud supporter of Bow Tie Thursdays. That is why I am acting as an ambassador for Procure's Mr. Larry Maguire (Brandon—Souris, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I Bowvember campaign. I invite every member of the House to rise to pay tribute to the Brandon Marlins team, the management, contact my office in order to get a bow tie. I challenge every member and players from their 1999 to 2008 seasons for being chosen to be to wear a bow tie here in the House every Thursday in November, in inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame, on June 2 next support of the fight against prostate cancer. summer, in Morden, Manitoba. Together we can make a difference. The Marlins were assembled in 1995 by a late great athlete, Neil Andrews, who, with the help of many others, recruited a great group *** of athletes who had played together since they were 10 or 11 years INDIGENOUS SPIRITUALITY old. Mr. Gérard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I With the entry of the Marlins into the league, it breathed new life was born in Loretteville near the Wendake first nation, and I have into Brandon's baseball community and fans were privileged to spent my entre life there. For nine years, I have been proud to watch some of the most exciting baseball games in league history. represent the Wendat people: two years here in the House of Commons and seven years before that in the National Assembly. I It goes without saying that the Marlins are champions. The players know them, I love them, but most of all I respect them. went on to win the Manitoba Senior Baseball League title in 1999 The Wendat, like every first nation, have been passing down their and proceeded to win again in 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2008, among beliefs for centuries. Let me share with you what they believe. other accomplishments. According to Wendat tradition, Yaa'taenhtsihk fell from the sky I know many of the players personally and they are true leaders on and was saved by geese who took her under their wings and placed and off the field. I can think of no greater honour than to recognize her on the shell of the Great Turtle, the chief of the animal kingdom. these gentlemen being inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Great Turtle then became a beautiful island, our Earth. Fame so their accomplishments will be remembered for generations to come. Such is the Wendat belief. It is not my belief. It is their belief. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15213

Statements by Members We can take one of two attitudes towards another person's beliefs: BATTLE OF PASSCHENDAELE ridicule or respect. We respect their beliefs, we respect all beliefs. Mr. (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC): Mr. That is what it means to respect first nations. Speaker, tomorrow we will recognize the 100th anniversary of the *** Battle of Passchendaele, a defining battle in Canadian war history. ● (1410) The Battle of Passchendaele is remembered as one of the worst horrors of the First World War. The conditions for our soldiers were [English] deplorable, with mud, water, and blast craters turning the battlefield VETERANS into a literal quagmire. Mr. (Bay of Quinte, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as MP for the Sergeant Charles Pinkney, Private William Doyle, Private Bay of Quinte, I would like to recognize all our Canadian veterans, William Hodgson, and Private Henry Siddall from my home town past and present. were among the 15,600 Canadians who lost their lives in that battle. Sergeant George Mullin from Moosomin, Saskatchewan of the My riding is home to one of the largest veteran populations in the PPCLI was awarded the Victoria Cross for bravery in saving many country. Men and women arrive to serve and many stay to contribute lives. dynamically to our region in their post-service years. This Saturday, I encourage all Canadians to attend the When I became MP, it was an honour to hire a veteran on my Remembrance Day ceremony in their community to pay tribute to team. A veteran's empathy, expertise, and eagerness to build the brave men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice so solutions are valuable tools that raise the standard of service we we may enjoy a life of peace and prosperity in Canada today. can offer to our veterans' community. Their country needed them. They answered the call. We shall not I would like to commend all employers in the Bay of Quinte forget. riding that have also embraced hiring a veteran. I call on each of my hon. colleagues to hire veterans in their offices. Likewise, let us *** encourage all other Canadian employers to follow our example and that of my community. MARCONI CLUB Mr. (Sault Ste. Marie, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, today It is Veterans Week. Hire a veteran. It is our best chance to turn I rise in the House to congratulate the Marconi Club in Sault Ste. our words into action and show everyone how much we value our Marie on the success of its first annual joint banquet. My wife Lisa Canadian veterans. and I had the pleasure of attending the event and thoroughly enjoyed it. *** I want to congratulate President Joe Orazietti of the Guglielmo ETOBICOKE SPORTS HALL OF FAME Marconi Society and President Nancy Fragomeni-MacDonald of the Mr. James Maloney (Etobicoke—Lakeshore, Lib.): Mr. Speak- Elettra Marconi Society for the progressive ideas in honouring the er, I rise today to recognize the 2017 inductees into the Etobicoke rich Italian heritage and culture we are lucky to have in Sault. Sports Hall of Fame. This evening, four worthy individuals will have their names added to the roster of great Canadians who have made This event could not have come together so beautifully without significant contributions to the world of sport. the hard work of Rosetta Sicoli and her legendary eggplant Parmesan. These individuals include jockey Eurico Rosa Da Silva, winner of over 700 races; and award-winning sportswriter, Steve Buffery, who Grazie to the entire Marconi Society for producing this historic covered the Olympics for 15 years, not to mention the Leafs, event. I am proud to say the Italian community in Sault Ste. Marie is Raptors, Blue Jays. a perfect example of how multiculturalism and diversity can make Canada better. I am particularly proud of David “Two-Cup” Bolland, who brought the Stanley Cup home to Mimico and to his parents, Drew Buona fortuna Marconi Club. and Carol, on two occasions, the second time was the result of his *** cup-winning goal in 2013. ● (1415) Last, I want to congratulate my good friend, Councillor Mark Grimes. He has worked tirelessly for youth sport in Etobicoke. He [Translation] was instrumental in building the MasterCard Centre in Etobicoke REMEMBRANCE DAY and BMO Field in Toronto. He is truly a builder. Ms. Karine Trudel (Jonquière, NDP): Mr. Speaker, on Saturday I want to thank them and congratulate them. November 11, we will commemorate Remembrance Day. This day is an opportunity to remember all the men and women who served in I cannot be with them tonight, but have fun and “let's go”. uniform. 15214 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Oral Questions These past few days, we have proudly been wearing poppies, a ORAL QUESTIONS symbol in memory of those who defended our country and those who made the ultimate sacrifice. In my riding of Jonquière, a very special ceremony will be held this year to honour our veterans. [Translation] I will have the honour of participating in a major parade in the NATIONAL DEFENCE presence of many members and veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces, the Régiment du Saguenay, the naval reserve, the RCMP, as well as the Arvida and Kénogami branches of the Royal Canadian Mr. (Richmond—Arthabaska, CPC): Mr. Speaker, Legion. as we prepare to commemorate Remembrance Day on Saturday, it emerged this morning that the Liberal government plans to cut Everyone is invited to take part in this ceremony that will take allowances to elite soldiers if they are sick or injured for more than place in the heart of Arvida's heritage district. 180 days. I will say it again for the benefit of the House, more than 180 days. Once more, the actions of this self-proclaimed fair and *** equitable government prove it is anything but. [English] RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Can the Prime Minister explain to us why this government sees Hon. Rob Nicholson (Niagara Falls, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am nothing wrong with cutting financial compensation to our soldiers pleased to rise in the House today to celebrate the justice committee while shamelessly protecting its rich Liberal friends, like voting to keep section 176 in the Criminal Code. I would also like to Stephen Bronfman? thank those tens of thousands of Canadians who wrote and emailed their respective MPs to stand for their right to worship peacefully Hon. (Minister of National Revenue, and in security. Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the health and well-being of our soldiers is our top priority. The changes we made give soldiers a grace period of Parliamentarians heard the calls of citizens from across our nation almost six months to transition to their regular pay rate. Our and because their voices were resoundingly clear, Canadians and government is committed to ensuring that soldiers are compensated religious officials will be able to practise their right to worship fairly for their service to Canada. That is why our government knowing they will continue to be protected in the Criminal Code. recently approved a 6.34% pay raise for most soldiers. In addition to their pay, some soldiers receive one-time allowances when they are The Conservatives have always supported religious freedom and exposed to higher levels of risk or hardship, as is the case for the protection of those freedoms because we know the disruption of paratroopers and rescue specialists or those who spend long periods a religious service is serious and is not as a mere mischief charge. It of time— is a fundamental right that greatly affects all Canadians regardless of whether they attend religious services. ● (1420) Today is a victory for all faith communities in Canada. The Speaker: The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska. *** REMEMBRANCE DAY Mr. Alain Rayes (Richmond—Arthabaska, CPC): Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Karen McCrimmon (Kanata—Carleton, Lib.): Mr. the decisions we make in life are reflections of our values. The Speaker, on November 11, we honour the valour and sacrifice of actions of this government are disappointing. It has no respect for the those Canadian men and women who have served and continue to men and women in uniform who risk their lives to defend Canada. serve in the defence of peace, the protection of Canada and her allies, Crisis management is a strange way to govern. as well as in the name of freedom and democracy. This week I had the great honour of joining in the celebration of Does the Prime Minister have a sense of the additional pressure the 75th anniversary of 429 (Bison) Squadron, the squadron I once that this government is inflicting on our soldiers and their families, had the privilege of commanding. The squadron was formed in 1942 these Canadians who make the ultimate sacrifice for their country? as a bomber squadron, and still serves Canada with distinction 75 years later. [English]

Like the members of 429 Squadron, men and women of the Hon. Kent Hehr (Minister of Sport and Persons with Canadian Forces, past and present, have served in wars and combat Disabilities, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to missions, on countless United Nations, domestic sovereignty, rescue, our veterans. We have shown that since we came into power. We are humanitarian, and disaster relief operations, all with unparalleled investing in financial security. We have reopened offices. We have bravery and selflessness. invested in front-line staff. We are delivering on mental health To all those who have sacrificed so much, including the families services to better support our troops, and we will continue to find who supported them, I say, and all of us say, “Thank you”. ways to help them build their lives after service. Our government believes in our veterans and will be there with them every step of the Canada is so very proud and so very grateful. way. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15215

Oral Questions [Translation] our soldiers receive fair compensation for the service they render to Mr. Alain Rayes (Richmond—Arthabaska, CPC): Mr. Speaker, our country. That is why our government recently approved a pay it is a fact that this government swore to make mental illness a increase of 6.34% for most military personnel. In addition to their priority, and it is now imposing on our soldiers who struggle with regular pay, some soldiers also receive allowances when they are traumatic stress a maximum period of 180 days to recover. The called upon to carry out special duties or more difficult tasks or when Liberals made that decision. The Liberal government seems to have they are exposed to a higher level of risk. These include two ways of dealing with people: one for its Liberal cronies and paratroopers, rescue specialists, and those who are deployed for a another for all other Canadians, including our soldiers. long time, either on land or sea.

Should members of the Canadian Armed Forces rush back to Most of these allowances were also increased by 5.1%. Our work if they are still injured or ill, or even if they are not ready, to soldiers are well-paid— avoid being penalized by this Liberal government? [English] ● (1425) Hon. Kent Hehr (Minister of Sport and Persons with The Speaker: The hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette— Disabilities, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is fully committed Témiscouata—Les Basques. to our Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans and their families. We continue to build upon the supports we have in our *** mandate letter, including reopening offices, investments in front-line staff, delivering on financial security, improving supports for mental TAXATION health. I will let the member know that we are investing in a centre of excellence for mental health for our veterans and their families to Mr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Bas- get the help that they need. We are standing by our veterans and their ques, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Revenue has families, unlike the Conservatives, who ignored them in the 10 years been saying since the beginning of the week that her government has that they were in office. managed to recoup $25 billion by cracking down on tax evasion. However, the Canada Revenue Agency still refuses to confirm Hon. Candice Bergen (Portage—Lisgar, CPC): Mr. Speaker, whether the money has actually been recovered by the crown. last night, we were shocked to learn that the current Liberal government is stripping the pay of our brave men and women who This minister and her government cannot keep their stories are severely injured in the line of duty. This disgraceful decision to straight from one day to the next. The minister must show some remove benefits from those who put their lives on the line for us is backbone and end the culture of secrecy at the agency. nothing short of cold and heartless. Will the Prime Minister do the right thing and reverse this shameful pay cut to our Canadian special What is the truth? Did the agency actually recover the $25 billion forces? or just identify the money? [Translation] Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the health and well-being of our soldiers are top Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is fully committed to cracking priorities. The changes that we made give soldiers a grace period of down on tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. We are about to nearly six months to transition to their regular rate of pay. What is recoup $25 billion as a result of audits conducted over the past two more, our ill and injured veterans have access to a significant level of years. All companies and individuals affected by these audits have support to help them to recover. The chief of the defence staff is received notices of assessment. The Canada Revenue Agency has responsible for administering these polices, and the Minister of launched the collection process for amounts owed to Canadians. No National Defence asked him to review this file to make sure it is one is above the law. appropriate. Mr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Bas- [English] ques, NDP): Mr. Speaker, that is odd because in June the minister Hon. Candice Bergen (Portage—Lisgar, CPC): Mr. Speaker, was quoting $13 billion, not $25 billion. The amount has almost the Prime Minister seems to have no problem making sure his doubled in six months. friends are all taken care of, whether it is proclaiming Stephen [English] Bronfman innocent or turning a blind eye to the Minister of Finance's blatant conflict of interest, but when it comes to doing The Minister of National Revenue keeps boasting about the what is right for our men and women in uniform and those who put CRA's investigation into tax evasion, but she sets a double standard. their lives on the line every day, the Prime Minister has no time and Remember when the CRA offered a secret amnesty to KPMG clients zero sympathy. We can tell that from the minister's answer. Do the who stashed $130 million in the Isle of Man? A quick visit to the Liberals understand the damage that they are inflicting on our Canada Revenue Agency's website shows the names of hairdressers, Canadian military by cutting the monthly allowances of these farmers, and realtors who were caught, but nothing on KPMG soldiers? clients. [Translation] Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, The Liberals keep bragging about how they had a carpenter pay a Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring that fine, but when will the government take on the real tax evaders? 15216 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Oral Questions [Translation] [English] Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, ETHICS Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are on track to recoup $25 billion as a result of audits conducted over the past two years. I would like to say to Mr. Ted Falk (Provencher, CPC): Mr. Speaker, new Liberal my colleague opposite that two years amount to 24 months, not six. ethical lapses seem to surface almost weekly, and they are not just islands unto themselves. The finance minister hid his Morneau We have invested $1 billion. We are continuing our efforts and Shepell shares for almost two years. He hid his French corporation, putting tools in place. We are auditing four jurisdictions per year. We and though he was found guilty and fined by the Ethics are working on hiring 100 auditors and our efforts are producing Commissioner for that, he still holds numerous numbered compa- results. nies. Mr. (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): Mr. Speaker, ever since the paradise papers revealed information Will the finance minister clarify for us today what other conflicts about Stephen Bronfman, the Minister of National Revenue has been are lurking in the muddy waters of these other numbered companies? giving us the same line: the government is committed to combatting Mr. Joël Lightbound (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I have mentioned time and again Wait a second, though. According to Revenue Canada's website, in the House, the finance minister, when he arrived in Ottawa as an tax evasion involves deliberately ignoring the law. It is illegal. How elected parliamentarian, did what is expected of all parliamentarians can something illegal be aggressive? and all ministers. He met with the Ethics Commissioner. He has always followed her guidelines. He made sure he was in compliance Are there things that are illegal but not aggressive? Is there such a with the rules. He mentioned recently that he would even go above thing as acceptable fraud? Does the difference between something and beyond that, by divesting himself of all shares in Morneau acceptable and something fraudulent depend on whether one is a Shepell and placing all of his assets in a blind trust. friend of the Prime Minister and the ? The measures he put in place when he arrived were the ones Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, recommended by the Ethics Commissioner, which were good Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the government is firmly committed to enough for members on the other side of the aisle while they were combatting tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. In our last in government; good enough for the member for Milton; and good two budgets, we allocated nearly $1 billion to doing just that. Our enough for Denis Lebel, which was to put in place a conflict of plan is working. There have been 627 cases transferred to criminal interest screen, which has been in place, and is in place. investigation, 268 search warrants executed, and 78 convictions. We are continuing to work on this for all Canadians. Everyone must pay [Translation] their fair share. Mrs. Sylvie Boucher (Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Or- Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): léans—Charlevoix, CPC): Mr. Speaker, Canadians are fed up. Mr. Speaker, I have another number for the minister: 22. Everywhere they look more Liberals are displaying their lack of ethics. What bothers them most is that the Minister of Finance, the Twenty-two is the number of agreements the Liberals have with person responsible for our country's budget, is hiding his assets in tax havens, and they are not lifting a finger to do anything about it. numbered companies. He hid his Morneau Shepell shares for two An article in this morning's Le Devoir states: years. He never disclosed that he owns a company in France. He was When will the Liberal government finally cancel the tax treaties that allow a found guilty by the commissioner, and more importantly by all Canadian company registered in Barbados to avoid paying taxes here....When will it Canadians, and he had to pay a fine. How many more conflicts might finally get tough on Canadian banks that earn some of their profits through their we find in the rest of his numbered companies? activities in tax havens in the south... Mr. Joël Lightbound (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister Those are excellent questions. Are the Liberals doing nothing of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance has always because that is better for their millionaire friends on Bay Street? Is worked in full transparency with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics that what is going on here? Commissioner and followed her recommendations. That is what is Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, expected of every parliamentarian on all sides of the House. He Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is well aware that billions of announced that he would go even further and put all his assets in a dollars are at stake. We have made historic investments to the tune of blind trust, divest himself of his shares in Morneau Shepell, and $1 billion in our last two budgets. The CRA uses the information it make a charitable donation of the difference in value of his shares receives through lists disclosed by its partners in the OECD and the between October 19, 2015 and now. BEPS project, which the agency is part of. That is why, as of September 30, 2017, the agency was conducting more than 990 The Conservatives are only trying to distract from their poor audits and 42 criminal investigations related to offshore financial record on the economy. What they do not want to talk about is the structures. We— good record of the Minister of Finance, who created 500,000 jobs in two years and has given us the strongest growth of the past 10 years. (1430) ● That is not something they can brag about because for 10 years they The Speaker: Order. The hon. member for Provencher. had the worst performance in every respect. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15217

Oral Questions [English] and Barbados, and skipped over his chief fundraiser in the Liberal Mr. (Barrie—Innisfil, CPC): Mr. Speaker, after Party, who is linked to a $60-million tax haven in the Caribbean, but the finance minister spent the summer attacking small business he did find diabetics, and farmers, and now special forces soldiers. owners, it has become crystal clear that the Liberals are the party of the privileged and that there are two sets of rules. There are rules for them and rules for the rest of us. When will Sherlock Holmes over there realize that if he is looking for wealthy tax dodgers, they are all around him? While the minister hid his foreign corporation from the Ethics Commissioner, Liberal insiders were hiding their wealth in a complex web of offshore tax havens. Middle-class Canadians, and The Speaker: I do not think there is a Sherlock Holmes in the those working hard to join it, do not try to hide things from the tax House, and of course if there were, we would not refer to him by man. They cannot afford it. name. I ask members to remember to address their questions to the Why does the minister not publicly disclose what is in all of his Chair, but to mention the minister they are addressing too, if numbered companies? possible. If they do that, it would be fine. Mr. Joël Lightbound (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will reiterate that the finance [Translation] minister has done what is expected of all parliamentarians. He has worked with the Ethics Commissioner, in whom we have the utmost trust to provide the right path forward for parliamentarians, for I see the hon. Minister of National Revenue rising to respond. parliamentary secretaries, and ministers. That is what he has done in putting in place a conflict of interest screen, a measure that the Ethics Commissioner saw as the best compliance measure possible, a Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, measure that was good enough for members on the opposite side Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the opposition member's comments are complete while they were in government. Now, the finance minister has nonsense. I would even go so far as to call them irresponsible. No announced that he will go above and beyond her recommendations one is interfering with the agency's work. Our government is fully to continue the important work he has been doing for two years for committed to fighting tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. Canadians. Mr. John Brassard (Barrie—Innisfil, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the minister keeps saying he has disclosed all of his assets, but he told In our last two budgets, we invested nearly $1 billion. How everyone two years ago that he had placed all of his assets in a blind strange it is to hear the Conservatives talk about how important these trust. He told the media, Parliament, and even members of his own issues are, given that they made no such investment when they were caucus that he had a blind trust, but we know that was not the truth. in power. The Globe and Mail reported in 2014 that the Conservatives had eliminated the positions of 50 senior managers Now he is asking us, once again, to blindly trust him. However, if responsible for international files. he really wants to repair the trust he has broken with Canadians, the solution is simple. He should shine a light on what is in all of his numbered companies. Why is that so hard? [English] Mr. Joël Lightbound (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in this Parliament we have an institution, the Ethics Commissioner, whose mandate is to provide Hon. (Carleton, CPC): Mr. Speaker, there is no the right path forward to protect the integrity of Parliament by doubt that this minister is hiring a lot of tax collectors. The problem providing recommendations to make sure that all members follow is that they are going after the wrong people—diabetics, farmers, and the rules. The finance minister, when he was first elected two years small business owners—not the real tax cheats. As for her comment ago, met with the Ethics Commissioner, disclosed all of his assets to that no one is interfering with the CRA, well, maybe no one except her, followed the path she set forward, put in place a conflict of the Prime Minister and her. She wrote a letter on July 31, in which interest screen, and has focused for the last two years on serving she said that type 1 diabetics are unlikely to qualify for the disability Canadians and the public. He has helped to grow this economy at a tax credit even when their doctors certify they are diabetic. faster rate than they ever could achieve in two years. I fully understand why they do not want to talk about their record and the finance minister's record, because when one compares the two, it is Will she withdraw that letter and tell her department to give clear who is doing the better job. diabetics back their tax credit? *** ● (1435) [Translation] TAXATION Hon. Pierre Poilievre (Carleton, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, Minister has gone on the hunt for wealthy tax cheats, but skipped Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring that all right over his finance minister, who had hidden interests in France Canadians receive the credits and benefits they are entitled to. 15218 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Oral Questions The eligibility criteria for this credit have not changed. It is her job, release the data on the disability tax credit, and come clean important to recognize that far too many Canadians are struggling with Canadians suffering from diabetes? and need help. That is why our government has always taken a compassionate approach and helped those in need. Here is what we [Translation] have done. We have simplified the forms and hired specialized nurse practitioners. We are doing everything we can to help people. Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring that *** everyone receives the tax credits and benefits they need and are entitled to. We are moving forward with a national disability act that VETERANS will remove barriers and improve access for all Canadians living Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Mr. with a disability. Speaker, veterans are on the Hill to ask the Liberals to keep their election promise and give them a full pension. We have made tax credits more accessible. For the past two years, These veterans were betrayed by the Conservatives and amounts have continued to rise. We simplified the forms and hired disappointed when the Liberals brought them back to court, after specialized nurse practitioners, and we are even allowing them to fill promising to do better. In 2015, the Liberals voted in favour of an out the forms. NDP motion that indicated that Canada has a sacred obligation to our Hon. (Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, veterans. CPC): Mr. Speaker, if the Minister of National Revenue is saying Will the Liberals keep their promise, provide full pensions, and that payments have increased, why is it that a constituent from once again recognize that Canada has a sacred obligation to Sainte-Justine who used to get a disability tax credit no longer veterans? qualifies for a registered disability savings plan, according to the Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of CRA? Infrastructure and Communities, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, yes, we do have a sacred obligation to veterans who have a hard time when they The Prime Minister gave me his word that the Minister of National return home. We will help them. We demonstrate that every day with Revenue and the Minister of Health would follow up on this case. the services and benefits we offer veterans and their families. What progress has the minister made on the case of my constituent We will deliver on our promise of a pension for life, and we will from Sainte-Justine who has diabetes, who is worried, who have more details about that later this year. unfortunately is not a friend of the Prime Minister's, and who has [English] no tax haven in the Caribbean? Ms. Irene Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP): Mr. Speak- er, the current government has repeatedly promised to bring back Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, veterans' pensions, yet it continues to deny that it owes a sacred Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring that obligation to our veterans. In fact, the Liberals hired the same everyone receives the tax credits and benefits they are entitled to. lawyers as the Conservatives before them, and have taken these The eligibility criteria for the tax credit have not changed. My veterans right back to court. So much for their words. colleague opposite knows very well that all personal information held by the CRA is strictly confidential. I will not discuss any The Prime Minister has a choice. Will he keep his promise and individual in the House today or at any time during our term in bring back the full pension or will he continue to deny the sacred office. obligation we owe Canada's veterans? Hon. Steven Blaney (Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, (1440) ● CPC): Mr. Speaker, we are tired of empty talk. We want action. Mr. Marc Miller (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of What my constituent from Sainte-Justine wants is action. She wants Infrastructure and Communities, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, to be clear, the government to stop going after her savings, which will provide we did not take these veterans to court. The Equitas litigation deals her with a secure retirement, because she is diabetic and she has with issues that are addressed in the minister's mandate, including re- children to take care of. We want action. establishing lifelong pensions as an option. Unlike the Conservatives across the way, who could have addressed veterans' concerns while Why is the Prime Minister defending his bagman, who is hiding in office, we will deliver on our promise of a pension for life. millions of dollars in the Caribbean, rather than taking care of my *** constituent from Sainte-Justine? TAXATION I expect some action. Mr. (Calgary Shepard, CPC): Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the revenue minister to release valuable Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, information so that Canadians can understand how widespread the Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are fully committed to combatting tax problems are with the disability tax credit for diabetics. The minister evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. It is funny to hear the totally evaded my question. When it comes to the disability tax Conservatives talking about how important it is to combat tax credit, Diabetes Canada has said that “nobody's being targeted the evasion since they did so little in that regard when they were in way people with diabetes” are. When will the revenue minister do office. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15219

Oral Questions In its last year in office, the Harper government conducted [English] 98 offshore audits. We conducted 223 last year. In its last year in office, the Conservative government transferred 244 cases to Mr. Randall Garrison (Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, NDP): criminal investigation. We transferred 335 last year. These numbers Mr. Speaker, it is unacceptable that Canada will be welcoming the show that we are taking the situation much more seriously than the world to a conference on peacekeeping without making any specific Conservatives— commitment on a peacekeeping mission. The Speaker: Order. The hon. member for Sarnia—Lambton. To make matters worse, United Nations officials believe that the [English] things being considered by Canada do not even match the UN's Ms. Marilyn Gladu (Sarnia—Lambton, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the priorities. Now, with this conference just a few days away, it is still clock is ticking for the people with type 1 diabetes who have had not clear if or how Canada will contribute. their previously approved disability tax credits rejected. That is because refusal triggers a letter telling them that they are not eligible Again, will the government be announcing a specific peace- for the retirement disability pension fund they have being putting keeping mission commitment before the conference opens? money into for 10 years and that the account must be shut down. What are the Liberals going to do with the funds that were supposed Mr. Matt DeCourcey (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister to help these people manage their disability? They are going to use of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, Canada has a proud history them to pay for their out of control spending. How can they not see of peacekeeping, and our government knows how important it is for this is wrong? Canadians, for us to re-engage in that leadership role in a modernized view of how peacekeeping is done through the United [Translation] Nations. Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring that We committed personnel and $500 million to re-engage and take everyone receives the tax credits and benefits that they are entitled on a leadership role in peacekeeping operations. Last week, we to. announced an ambitious action plan that talks about gender equality The eligibility requirements for this tax credit have not changed. It in all of our engagement and fragile states, including in police and is important to recognize that far too many Canadians are struggling military deployments. and need help. That is why we are helping low-income workers keep more of their hard-earned money by increasing the working income Canada will re-engage in a leadership role in peacekeeping tax benefit by $500 million a year as of 2019. operations around the world.

We continue to deliver on our promises to Canadians. ***

*** [Translation] ● (1445) FOREIGN AFFAIRS FAMILIES, CHILDREN AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT Ms. Hélène Laverdière (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, NDP): Mr. Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in budget Speaker, next week, Canada will host a major international summit 2017, the government announced that it would make maternity and involving about 70 peacekeeping nations. parental leave more flexible and improve support for caregivers.

However, in the meantime, Canada has yet to deliver on its own [English] pledge to contribute to peacekeeping operations. That is a shame. It seems this government is really in no rush to fulfill its promises and Could the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development international obligations. please update this House on recently announced measures our When will the government stop embarrassing itself and us and government is implementing to support parental benefits and those finally announce a contribution to peacekeeping? providing compassionate care? Mr. Matt DeCourcey (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (Minister of Families, Children and of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we strongly believe that Social Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to take this Canada has an important role to play in peacekeeping operations, opportunity to thank the member for St. John's East for his and we are proud of our track record. remarkable work on behalf of his constituents. Canadians expect us to make an international contribution. That is why we have committed half a billion dollars and promised troops I am also delighted to have been able to announce this morning for peacekeeping missions. that a budget 2017 enhancement to our EI system will take effect on December 3. This means that parents will have more support, more Last week, we announced an ambitious action plan to integrate flexibility to look after their children. It also means that caregivers gender equality into peace and security efforts. We are proceeding will have more flexibility and support to look after their dear ones with caution, as Canadians expect. when they go through difficult health circumstances. 15220 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Oral Questions This is part of our plan to grow the economy, grow the middle with those assurances.” He has done exactly the opposite of what the class, and help more Canadians join the middle class. We will minister promised had to happen. celebrate that next week. Apparently, if people raise enough money for the Liberal Party, its *** assurances are all they need to get off the hook. It must be nice. [Translation] Why is there one set of rules for the Liberals and one set of rules TAXATION for everyone else? Hon. Maxime Bernier (Beauce, CPC): Mr. Speaker, for weeks [Translation] we have asked the Liberals to provide details about the scandals we Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, are debating today in the House, especially those involving tax Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the comments being made by the Conservatives evasion. and members opposite are totally absurd and completely irrespon- sible. No one is interfering in the agency's work. In our last two The minister responds every time with the number of investiga- budgets, we invested historic amounts totalling nearly $1 billion. It is tions conducted. However, we have heard nothing about investiga- funny to hear the Conservatives talk about the importance of this tions of the Liberals' cronies. My question for the minister is very issue. According to The Globe and Mail, in 2014, they eliminated 50 simple. positions of managers responsible for international cases. Former With respect to the paradise papers, which were recently minister of national revenue Jean-Pierre Blackburn— disclosed, will all the people named in those papers be investigated The Speaker: Order. The hon. member for Chilliwack—Hope. by her department, yes or no? [English] Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, Mr. (Chilliwack—Hope, CPC): Mr. Speaker, what Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are firmly committed to working on and is absurd and irresponsible are the words of the Prime Minister who cracking down on tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. said, “...we have received assurances that all rules were followed... It is strange to hear the Conservatives talk about the importance of and we are satisfied with those assurances.” He has let Stephen cracking down on tax evasion as they did so little when in power. In Bronfman off the hook based solely on his word. the last year they were in office, the Conservatives sent 244 cases to The lesson for Canadians: If they want to avoid a pesky criminal investigations and only 39 search warrants were executed. investigation first of all, be rich; second, be famous; but most of Last year there were 335 cases, and 123 search warrants. all, be a good, close friend of the Liberal Party who raises a lot of While the Conservatives work for the wealthy, we work for the— money. ● (1450) Why is there one set of rules for friends of the Liberal Prime The Speaker: Order. The hon. member for Beauce. Minister and a different set for everyone else? [English] [Translation] Hon. Maxime Bernier (Beauce, CPC): Mr. Speaker, let me make Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, it a little more specific for the minister. Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is firmly— The Prime Minister's friend and bagman for the Liberal Party of Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Canada, Stephen Bronfman, was referenced in the paradise papers. [English] The revenue minister spoke about a full investigation into those The Speaker: Order. If there is any more chanting, people will be exposed in these papers. chanting outside. My question for the minister is very simple. Can the minister [Translation] assure the House that Stephen Bronfman will be investigated, yes or Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr. Speaker, our government is fully no? committed to fighting tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance, and [Translation] our actions prove it. We have invested close to $1 billion over the Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, past two years. I repeat, no one is above the law. The law applies to Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my colleague opposite knows very well that I everyone equally. What the Conservative Party is trying to do right cannot discuss any specific cases, and I will not do so today or at any now is truly appalling. The comments I am hearing are absurd and point in the future. The integrity of our tax system is at stake. What I perhaps even dangerous. No one is interfering in the agency's work. can say is that our government is fully committed to fighting tax We have a system that is fair and equal for all. evasion and tax avoidance. No one is above the law. The law applies *** to everyone. [English] [English] Mr. Mark Strahl (Chilliwack—Hope, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the HUMAN RIGHTS minister just said she cannot comment on an ongoing investigation Ms. Sheri Benson (Saskatoon West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the but that is exactly what the Prime Minister did. He said, “...we have Prime Minister's special LGBTQ adviser said there is no link received assurances that all rules were followed...and we are satisfied between an apology to the LGBTQ community and remedies. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15221

Oral Questions A year ago, the military ombudsman said that as soon as the increase in duty by 50% of all imported peas, without providing any minister gave approval he would begin revising service records for advance notice. We are right in our concerns with the Government of veterans who were kicked out for being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or India and we will continue to work with our farmers and colleagues transgender. A year ago every member of defence committee voted to closely monitor the development, determine implications, and for this process to begin. raise these concerns with the appropriate Indian ministers. If there is no link between an apology and remedies, why are these vets still waiting? ● (1455) Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC): Mr. Speaker, a third of Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canada's pulse exports go to India. The Minister of Agriculture Canadian Heritage (Multiculturalism), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, all must make this a priority. There is simply too much at stake. Canadians should be safe to be themselves, love whom they choose, and be free from discrimination of any kind. We have already made significant progress on these issues with The inactions of the minister have very real consequences. Further Bill C-16 and Bill C-39. Our special adviser on LGBTQ2 issues, the delays will jeopardize Canada's $4-billion pulse sector. We have member for Edmonton Centre, has been working hard and critical trade agreements that are in jeopardy and this minister has consulting broadly with the community to ensure that when an been pushed to the sidelines. He has not even been invited to a vital apology happens, it will be thorough and complete. That applies to trade mission to India. veterans who are LGBTQ as well. Funds have been allocated for things like the expungement of records. We will be addressing the issues of veterans. When it comes to these negotiations, when will the Prime Minister Mr. (Vancouver Kingsway, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the appoint a Minister of Agriculture Canadian farmers can trust will be government has committed to a long overdue apology to LGBTQ at the table fighting for them? Canadians, but this is the same Liberal Party that promised to eliminate the discriminatory ban on gay men donating blood, and broke that promise. There is no scientific basis for this policy and it constitutes clear discrimination today. Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Agriculture and Agri- Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is a decision that has been made by the How can the Liberals offer a sincere and meaningful apology to Indian government, as I think my hon. colleague is fully aware. We the LGBTQ community for past injustices when they are practising are fully aware of the importance of the export of lentils to India, but discrimination in the present? it was a decision that was made by the Government of India, and we Hon. (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. are working with the Government of India to attempt to resolve this. Speaker, through our efforts over the years, Canada continues to We do not want to complicate the situation any more. have one of the safest blood systems in the world. In June 2016, we took steps forward in reducing the barriers that prevent men who have sex with men from donating blood. Our government has also committed $3 million to Canadian Blood Services in collaboration *** with Héma-Québec to make further progress on this issue. This funding helped organize an international health conference on blood donor policy. It will support behavioural research required HOUSING to develop non-discriminatory practice and encourage the advance- ment of this technology. *** Mr. (Banff—Airdrie, CPC): Mr. Speaker, first, AGRICULTURE AND AGRI-FOOD the Liberals made it more difficult for Canadians to qualify for a Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC): Mr. Speaker, with the mortgage, and taking away the dream of home ownership from previous Conservative government, Canadian pulse exports went thousands of first-time buyers. Now they are tacking on even more from $1 billion to a record $4.2 billion a year, with exports to India costs, adding thousands of dollars in expenses when Canadians at $1.5 billion. However, negotiating exemptions for Canadian build, sell, or renovate their homes. As the Canadian Home Builders' exports expired more than a month ago, and now we have learned Association said, when talking about $30,000, $40,000, or $50,000, that there is a 50% duty on Canadian pea exports to India. our concern will always be about what this means for affordability. How did the agricultural minister allow this situation to go from bad to worse, and when he is going to secure this vital market for Canada's pulse sector? Why are the Liberals making home ownership more expensive for Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Agriculture and Agri- middle-class Canadians, while owners of fancy French villas are let Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are extremely concerned over India's off the hook? 15222 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Oral Questions Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (Minister of Families, Children and I do need to add that, very personally, I think that more Social Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to be part information and better information is very important for us, as we all of a government that knows how important it is for every Canadian are very concerned about Yazidi men and women and their to have access to affordable and adequate housing. In that context, settlement in Canada. we have invested over $2.3 billion over the last two budgets to make *** sure that this is achieved. THE ENVIRONMENT We are also going to be launching, in the next few weeks, the first ever national housing strategy with partners all across Canada. These Ms. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, partners have been waiting for us for a long time. We are back, and the government likes to deride the Conservatives for their failed we are here to stay. action on climate change and Canada's melting Arctic. How then do the Liberals defend that it took a private petition just to get the *** government to finally provide just enough dollars to keep the lights ● (1500) on for one year for our renowned PEARL project? The government is granting a mere $1 million to a climate program that was once HEALTH given $22 million overall by the Conservatives. Mr. (St. Catharines, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government has committed to legalizing, strictly regulating, and Will the government respect calls by our nation's leading scientists restricting access to cannabis. Through a public health approach, we and recommit long-term support for this critical climate change are maximizing education and minimizing harm. research? Hon. (Minister of Science, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, Can the Minister of Health please update the House on her efforts our government understands that the Arctic matters more than ever to raise awareness of cannabis, particularly for young people, and of before because of climate change. That is why yesterday, along with the risks of cannabis use? the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, I announced $1.6 Hon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. million to continue operations and research at the Polar Environment Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague from St. Catharines Atmospheric Research Laboratory. It is one of Canada's most remote for his hard work. As he stated, our government has already begun scientific stations, located on Ellesmere Island, and researchers there raising awareness about the risk of cannabis use, especially for our monitor the changes in the atmosphere, climate change, ozone, and youth. In this area, we are proud that we are investing $46 million, the environment. which will support awareness and health promotion activities, including for classrooms and youth organizations all across the *** country. [Translation] Tomorrow, we are hosting a symposium that will bring partners OFFICIAL LANGUAGES together across the country to identify priorities and actions, and also Mr. Alupa Clarke (Beauport—Limoilou, CPC): Mr. Speaker, opportunities to promote partnerships with these agencies. nine academics co-signed a letter in which they pose the question: “Who is standing up for official languages in the federal *** government?” IMMIGRATION, REFUGEES AND CITIZENSHIP The question is neither inconsequential nor gratuitous. It has been Hon. Michelle Rempel (Calgary Nose Hill, CPC): Mr. Speaker, coming up regularly for two years now, but the Liberals seem the immigration committee held two meetings to review how Canada unconcerned about languages issue, to wit the appointment of an is assisting Yazidi genocide survivors, and today I moved a motion ultra-partisan commissioner, an agreement with Netflix that ignores to have the findings presented in a report and to have one additional the francophonie, an action plan that never materializes, and a meeting to hear directly from genocide survivors who have been department that is failing to meet its legal obligations, including resettled to Canada. obligations with respect to the Réseau pour le développement de In a shameful display and in front of Yazidi witnesses, the l'alphabétisme et des compétences, the literacy and skills develop- member for Surrey Centre moved to adjourn debate. The chair then ment network. shut down the committee without a vote on anything. I feel that this Protecting official languages is obviously not a priority for the should be a non-partisan issue, so will the chair of the committee Liberals. Why not? correct his error and commit to holding an extra meeting and tabling a report on this issue? Mr. Sean Casey (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, our two Mr. Robert Oliphant (Don Valley West, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I official languages are central to our history and our Canadian want to thank the hon. member for Calgary Nose Hill for her identity. We are firmly committed to promoting the use of both question and also for her commitment and her work for the Yazidi official languages in society and to supporting our official language women, men, children, girls, and boys. The concern that she raised minority communities. has come to our committee for the last two meetings. We have heard from officials and stakeholders. There is now a motion on the floor We are working on a new action plan to support and promote the that we extend that by at least one more meeting, and that motion vitality of these communities. This is a matter our government takes will be dealt with at the next meeting possible. very seriously. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15223

Oral Questions ● (1505) [English] TAXATION Hon. (Minister of Public Services and Procurement, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the Minister the national shipbuilding strategy. The strategy is a long-term of National Revenue keeps saying that the CRA recovered commitment that will rejuvenate our maritime industry, support $25 billion from tax havens. However, her department's report that Canadian innovation, and result in jobs for Canadians across the came out today indicates that it is more like $33 million for the last country. As set out in the strategy, $2 billion in opportunities remain fiscal year. That leaves a shortfall of just $24,967,000,000, which is for Chantier Davie and other Canadian shipyards for small ship 1,000 times less than the minister claims. construction projects, as well as ship repair, refit, and maintenance. Does the minister have a flair for exaggeration or is she getting her We are also committed to consulting the marine industry on other millions mixed up with her billions? requirements that may arise following an open and competitive procurement process. Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is fully committed to collecting [Translation] taxes and combatting tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. We The Speaker: The member for Terrebonne on a point of order. are on track to recovering that $25 billion, as a result of audits Mr. Michel Boudrias: Mr. Speaker, I once again seek the consent conducted over the past two years. of the House for the following motion: Every company and individual affected by these audits received That this House recognize the expertise of the Davie shipyard in Lévis, which notices of assessment. The CRA is recovering money that is owed to represents 50% of the country's production capacity; and Canadians. No one is above the law. That it call on the government to adjust its national shipbuilding strategy— *** Some hon. members: Oh, oh! PUBLIC SERVICES AND PROCUREMENT The Speaker: It is obvious that the member does not have the unanimous consent of the House. Mr. Michel Boudrias (Terrebonne, BQ): Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I asked the House to agree to the Quebec National Assembly's [English] unanimous request to award the Davie shipyard its fair share of Canadian contracts. The 40 phantom Liberal MPs from Quebec I understand the hon. member for Vancouver East has a point of refused. I will give them a second chance. order. Ms. : Mr. Speaker, during question period, the Meanwhile, their colleague, the member for Central Nova, member for Don Valley West, chair of the citizenship and announced that Quebec would get nothing because the Liberals immigration committee, mentioned that a motion was moved at have 32 Atlantic Canadian MPs who are great advocates for their committee to extend the study on the Yazidi issue by one extra day region. and to have a report come out of that committee study. The member only suggested that it was to extend the meeting, which is not How many jobs must be lost before the Quebec MPs on the other factually accurate. Therefore, I raise that as a point of order. side of the aisle start to advocate for Quebec? Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Public Services and ● (1510) Procurement, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to The Speaker: It sounds like debate, but I will have a look at that the national shipbuilding strategy. The strategy is a long-term and perhaps come back to the House if necessary. commitment that rejuvenates our marine industry, supports Canadian innovation, and creates jobs for Canadians. As announced in the The hon. member for Louis-Saint-Laurent. strategy, there is still $2 billion in opportunities available to the [Translation] Davie shipyard and other Canadian shipyards in the small-ship Mr. Gérard Deltell: Mr. Speaker, during question period, the construction and ship repair, refit, and maintenance programs. Minister of National Revenue talked about the taxes paid by the Mr. (La Pointe-de-l'Île, BQ): Mr. Speaker, that wealthiest members of our society. is just more rhetoric to hide the Quebec Liberals' pandering. Canada is going to invest $100 billion over the next 20 to 30 years to renew In order to set the record straight for Canadians, I ask for the its fleet, and not one cent of that is going to the Davie shipyard. Not consent of the House to table a document, issued by the Department one cent is going to Quebec. of Finance, entitled “Annual Financial Report of the Government of Canada”. On page 16 of that report, it reads: Where is our tax money going? Where are the 40 phantom Liberal MPs and their support for the Davie shipyard? [English] Six hundred workers are going to lose their jobs because the “Personal income tax revenues decreased by $1.2 billion...largely Canadian government does not want to lift a finger. reflecting the impact of tax planning by high-income individuals...”. [Translation] What are the 40 phantom Liberal MPs doing? Are they worried about upsetting the Liberals from the Maritimes? I ask for the consent of the House. 15224 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders The Speaker: The member does not have the unanimous consent thought for a minute he might tell us what it was like to be with of the House. Wilfrid Laurier. [English] Now I believe the hon. government House leader is rising with the usual Thursday question. GOVERNMENT ORDERS *** BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE [Translation] Hon. Candice Bergen (Portage—Lisgar, CPC): Mr. Speaker, as members are aware, this is the final day before we go back to our CANNABIS ACT ridings for what is probably one of the most important weeks for all of us as members of Parliament, as we celebrate, honour, and think The House resumed consideration of Bill C-45, An Act respecting about the sacrifice that has been made. When I say “celebrate”, it is cannabis and to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the celebrating the freedom we have because of the price that has been Criminal Code and other Acts, as reported (with amendment) from paid. As we get ready to do that, I know that all of us have the same the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1. goal in mind, which is to serve our constituency, our veterans, and those who are currently serving in the Armed Forces as we The Speaker: There were five minutes left for questions and remember and honour them. comments on the speech of the hon. member for Montmagny— L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup. With that in mind, I would ask the government if it could let us know what it will be planning to bring forward when we return after The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Govern- our constituency week. ment in the House of Commons. Hon. Ralph Goodale (Minister of Public Safety and Emer- gency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as a small footnote in ● (1515) history, I used to have the honour of serving as the government House leader. After an absence of 807 weeks, it is my privilege to [English] answer this question once again on behalf of my colleague the current government House leader. Again as a historical reference, Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the members might be interested to know that 807 weeks ago, what we Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): were discussing in the Thursday question was reproductive Mr. Speaker, when I look at Bill C-45, for me, personally, it is saying technologies, public safety, competition legislation, species at risk, that we need to do what we can for our children. I hear a lot of the and pest control. In some ways, things never change. However, to arguments from the Conservative benches that under the new law, get to the answer, this afternoon we will continue with the report somehow our children would be worse off, not recognizing that stage debate on Bill C-45, which is the proposed cannabis Canada already has the highest participation of youth in the legislation. consumption of cannabis in the world. A big part of that driving force is the criminal element. Criminals realize that they can sell and First, let me associate myself, and I am sure all members of the profit by selling to our kids. Would my colleague not at the very least House, with the comments that the opposition House leader made concede that for criminals, it is a viable option to make money by about the respect we all have, and must have, for our veterans and selling to minors? That is something that is happening today. members of the Canadian Armed Forces. After we return from this constituency week, we will commence This is a step in the right direction to deal with crime and deal with debate on Bill C-59, which deals with national security. I would young people and the issue of cannabis and marijuana. inform the House that, in the interests of transparency, we will be [Translation] referring this bill to committee before second reading, which will allow for a broader scope of discussion and consideration and Mr. Bernard Généreux (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska possible amendment of the bill in the committee when that —Rivière-du-Loup, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear my deliberation begins. colleague's question. In the 1980s, we introduced the GST and the Following that, we hope to be back to the debate on Bill C-24, Liberals were adamant that they would eliminate it as quickly as which would amend the Salaries Act. Our focus for the rest of the possible. Quite the opposite happened and, even worse, they week after we return will be disposing of Bill C-45 at report stage increased this tax several times. It was lowered again under Mr. and third reading. Harper.

Finally, Thursday of that week will be an allotted day. In reality, the government is now proposing a tax on a good that The Speaker: I thank the hon. opposition House leader and the will be sold to young people. Not only are they taxing all Canadians, Minister of Public Safety, in particular, for their words about they are taxing young people. The goal is to collect money to pay off Remembrance Week and what we are doing over the next while, and the Liberal deficit at the expense of young people. That is what they also the Minister of Public Safety for the little history lesson. I are doing. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15225

Government Orders [English] unless they are thinking of the next election, which is slowly but Mr. (Oshawa, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I want my surely approaching. I will add “fortunately” to that. colleague to address something we have heard over and over, and I oppose this bill because it simply does not meet the objectives that is the deceitful approach I see in bringing this to Canadians. The Liberals have said that the status quo is not working. I would like to that it claims to achieve. To prove it, I propose that the various cite a study from the Canadian community health survey, mental objectives announced by the Liberal government be reviewed to see health, from 2015. It said that for teens aged 15 to 17, which is the whether they pass a reality check, what we call in Quebec l'épreuve des faits, the smell test. target group, they have lowered marijuana use from 40% to 25%. In other words, the status quo lowered it by 15%. First, the government claims to be protecting the health of young The Liberals say that they want to keep this out of the hands of persons by restricting access to cannabis while protecting them from children and keep it out of the hands of organized crime. Experts at inducements to use it. This objective will simply not be met. To committee said this bill would not do that. begin with, if we allow Canadians to grow up to four cannabis plants at home, it will be impossible to control children's access to the drug. Could the member comment on the deceptive nature of the Therefore, it will be impossible to regulate consumption by the Liberals? They are telling Canadians one thing, when they know that young people who live in these homes. I am not claiming to be an the facts do not support this bill. expert in this area. I only observe and listen to what the experts tell us. [Translation] Mr. Bernard Généreux: Mr. Speaker, my colleague's question Even Health Canada is warning us that marijuana is a dangerous clearly exposes the Liberal's hypocrisy with respect to this bill. drug for young people. This is what is posted on the department's website: “Youth are especially vulnerable to the health effects of The facts are clear: the legalization of marijuana will not reduce its cannabis, because adolescence is a critical time for brain develop- consumption by youth. On the contrary, it is being legalized. That ment”. tells young people to go ahead and enjoy it, and it is no big deal to use it. That is the message the government is sending our youth. We know that the brain continues to develop until age 25. During those years, the brain is especially vulnerable to the health effects of This makes no sense in terms of public health. My children and marijuana, and use is associated with a disturbing increase in the risk especially my grandchildren, who are still growing up, are going to of developing mental disorders such as schizophrenia, depression, be part of a society where, as of July 2018, a 12-year-old can possess and anxiety. It is estimated that young people who use marijuana are five or six grams of marijuana. That makes no sense. If that is what 30% more likely to develop these disorders. When we talk about you call protecting children, it makes no sense. those under 25, that includes 12-year-olds, who, under the bill, will [English] be able to possess up to 5 grams of marijuana. Yes, members heard Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Mr. me right, children in grades seven to twelve, and even those in grade Speaker, I am really glad to hear the member talk about children and 6, will be able to have an equivalent of 10 to 15 joints on their the impacts of cannabis on children, but we know as fact that over person. In short, there is nothing to protect the health of young 20% of children under the age of 18 already have access to people. It is more likely that they will be encouraged to use. marijuana and are using it. Thirty per cent of young adults are Second, the government believes that it will deter the illicit already using it. We know the status quo is not working. Given that, activities associated with cannabis. For now, that is by no means a why would the member suggest continuing with the status quo? given. If no improvements are made to the price, packaging, and Mr. Bernard Généreux: Mr. Speaker, an expert came to distribution of cannabis, it is rather unlikely that we will be able to committee and said exactly the reverse of what my colleague just take this market away from organized crime. This is what we have said. The Liberals do not believe the facts. That is the reality. They seen in the states of Washington and Colorado, and in several do not believe what the police, the doctors, and all the associations countries such as Uruguay, where home growing did not reduce the across Canada say to them. That is a fact. That is a problem with the involvement of organized crime. In fact, nothing prevents home- government. It does not believe them. grown from being sold for illegal purposes. ● (1520) That is what Cynthia Coffman, Attorney General of Colorado, [Translation] said. She is not a Conservative here in the house. She said that Mr. Alain Rayes (Richmond—Arthabaska, CPC): Mr. Speaker, criminals were still selling marijuana on the black market, that a host I am pleased to talk again about Bill C-45, a bill that will legalize of cartels were operating in Colorado, and that crime has not gone cannabis, which has been illegal for nearly 100 years in Canada. This down since marijuana was legalized. bill will come into effect in the next eight months. Third, the government claims to be making our roads safer. The hasty passage of this bill raises several concerns, as was However, in every state and every country where cannabis was pointed out by a very large number of provincial organizations, legalized, the drug-impaired driving rate increased. That is what experts, police forces and health-sector groups. Such a huge and Kevin Sabet, a former advisor to Barack Obama, said about drug complex bill requires time for reflection and a comprehensive study. policies. He said that there has been an uptick in marijuana-related It is difficult to understand the Liberals' sense of urgency on this bill, car accidents in Colorado. 15226 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I would like to remind members that drivers who have used cannabis than to buy a pack of cigarettes or a bottle of beer. Putting marijuana are six times more likely to have a car accident than sober our heads in the sand, assuming everything is all right, is not an drivers. Also, we recently found out that the government still does option. not have reliable scientific data on the quantity of marijuana that an individual can use before it hinders his or her ability to drive a vehicle or on how long a person should wait after smoking marijuana Stakeholders such as the Canadian Association of Chiefs of before driving. The paper that was presented shows that everything Police, the Canadian Police Association, the Canadian Bar is still vague, even though we are eight months away from Association, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, the Assembly legalization. There are no facts and no evidence, but the government of First Nations, the Canadian Medical Association, and the is rushing the bill through anyway. Canadian Nurses Association have come out in support in this. Fourth, the government thinks it will be providing access to Does the member not realize that it is best to regulate and educate quality-controlled cannabis. That is an odd goal considering that this in order to have healthy growth rather than ban it outright? government cannot in any way regulate the home grow that it is allowing. [Translation] ● (1525)

It is impossible to measure the toxicity, the use of fertilizer, the Mr. Alain Rayes: Madam Speaker, I am not sure where my amount produced, or the presence of mould. Furthermore, in Ontario colleague opposite is getting her information from, but it is and Quebec, building owners will not be able to prevent renters from completely contrary to all my research. Yes, it is true that many growing marijuana, with all the risks that entails, such as a 24 times young people are already getting and using marijuana. greater likelihood of fire, according to experts.

The government thinks it can raise awareness of the health risks Do the Liberals really think that the drug will be harder for them associated with cannabis use. If it really wants to achieve that to get once it is legalized and legally available pretty much objective, it must address the growing concerns expressed by police anywhere? That is completely false, and anyone who believes that is officers, provincial governments, municipal governments, and the one burying their head in the sand. The Liberals are simply indigenous leaders, all of whom have said they will not be prepared minimizing the impact this product will have on Canadians and to implement the proposed measures eight months from now. especially on our young people. The government should start by listening to these groups of elected representatives and citizens who have sounded the alarm I want to point out that if the government had at least listened to about the Liberal government's pie in the sky objectives. Raising the experts who confirmed that using marijuana is dangerous for public awareness means launching massive campaigns and provid- people under 25, if they had at least banned it for people under 25, ing law enforcement training for police officers and addiction we could have begun talking about it. Health experts all agree on treatment training for mental health workers. These measures will that. I say this with great emotion because I have three children: the cost Canadian taxpayers dearly, but responsibility for them will most Liberals are doing exactly the opposite of what health experts are certainly be downloaded onto the provinces, which will have to pick saying. They are therefore putting our kids' health at risk. up the tab for the Liberals' promise. Just as they are getting no help now, they will not get any then either. ● (1530) To sum up, we have reason to seriously question why the Liberal government is in such a hurry to pass this bill. [English] Perhaps it is so everyone will quickly forget its promise to reform the electoral system or the many other promises I could mention that Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Madam have really disappointed Canadians, and especially young Cana- Speaker, on the member's last point, he said that cannabis was dians, in this case. This kind of commitment requires a great deal of dangerous when consumed by young Canadians. We know that 30% preparation, but instead we are seeing nothing but improvisation in of young Canadians are currently consuming it. The status quo, the this case. approach we have been taking, is not working. It is time to try something different, and we do not have look too far from where we I therefore urge the members to look at this bill with a critical eye, have come with the way we have regulated tobacco and alcohol to be prudent, and vote against it. As the many experts I consulted and ensure we keep them out of the hands of children. That is exactly discussed this with said, this bill does not in any way meet the what we are striving toward now. Why can the member and the government's objectives, which are to keep drugs away from kids, opposition party not see that the status quo just does not work? make our streets safer, and eliminate organized crime. [English] [Translation] Mr. (Nepean, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I would like to know if the member realizes that doing nothing is not an Mr. Alain Rayes: Madam Speaker, the member just stated that option anymore? Cannabis has been banned up to this time, but young people under the age of 18 do not consume alcohol or smoke consumption of it has increased. Today it is easier for our kids to buy cigarettes. I think that he has never spoken to young people. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15227

Government Orders In fact, even if it is illegal, some of them consume it all the same. It is necessary to point out just how rushed this legislation is. The Just because something was legalized for people over 18 does not government has set an arbitrary date of July 1, 2018, for the mean young people will not consume any. It is wrongheaded to legalization of cannabis. This means that by that date, all provinces claim otherwise, and amounts to willful blindness. I keep having to and territories, including the municipalities and the police forces say this. within these regions, will need to have implemented legislation that allows members of the public to access recreational marijuana. This There are certain pieces of information I would like to share. is a huge ask. According to Health Canada, “Young people are particularly vulnerable to the health effects of marijuana because adolescence There needs to be time for the appropriate authorities to figure out is a critical time for brain development.” This is Health Canada just how they will handle this new endeavour. It is a serious matter, highlighting this. and should absolutely not be rushed. I worry that the Liberals are more focused on keeping a campaign promise than they are about the I have one last thing to point out. The number of hospital visits health and safety of our communities. Indeed, this is one promise we has increased dramatically in Colorado since marijuana was wish they would not keep, given the wide-ranging implications it legalized. It has almost tripled, reaching 803 diagnoses per could have on society. The legislation needs to be picked apart with a 100,000 people from 2001 to 2009, as a result of legalization. fine-toothed comb to ensure that every aspect of it is considered by Therefore, in every jurisdiction where this happened, there was a the provinces and territories, which will have the responsibility to resulting increase in the number of accidents and intoxication implement it. Less than one year from now is not enough time, and problems for school age children. All the figures are there to support the government needs to realize that. these facts. Ms. Linda Lapointe (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, Lib.): Madam In my previous life, before becoming a member of Parliament, I Speaker, I would like to salute my colleague. He is in Quebec, was a chiropractor in my hometown of Estevan. Having a medical just like me. We had a consultation on the legalization and strict background allows me to see the bill through that lens and gives me regulation of cannabis. Dr. Goyer, director of public health services a unique perspective on just how the legalization of cannabis could in the Laurentian region, was among the guests. According to him, affect the general health of our country. I have also been very 32% of youth under age 18 in Quebec used marijuana in the previous involved with sport in both a medical capacity and as a coach for year. In the Laurentians, the area where I come from, it is 50%. youth. I will draw upon those experiences when discussing the use of recreational cannabis. It is clear that the current system is not working. It is easier to buy marijuana than it is to buy alcohol or cigarettes. That is why it is so As most of the members of the House likely know, Bill C-45 critical that we regulate and ensure that this works with the young recommends the age of 18 as a federal minimum for access to people. recreational cannabis. While the provinces will be given the power to set a higher age, the federal legislation puts it at 18. This creates an What does my colleague think about that? issue from a medical perspective. Given what we should all know Mr. Alain Rayes: The answer is simple, Madam Speaker. and given what health care professionals have testified before Currently, yes, we all know that the young people consume cannabis. committee, the brain continues to develop until the age of 25. In fact, However, it is not true that, by legalizing it, those numbers will drop. the use of cannabis before the age of 25 increases one's risk of With regards to what the doctor she met with said, I can tell her of a developing mental disorders, such as schizophrenia, depression, and bunch more specialists who are extremely worried about the message anxiety by up to 30% compared to those who have not used cannabis that we are sending to young people by legalizing drugs. under the age of 25.

It is unbelievable that this government has made this a priority. If This is a very significant number and should not be ignored. For it put the same energy into rolling out programs to make young this reason, the Canadian Medical Association, CMA, recommends people aware of healthy lifestyle, consumption rates would drop raising the age at which a person can consume cannabis to at least right away. 21. This reflects the assumption that if the age is raised too high, illegal consumption of cannabis will continue. [English] Mr. Robert Kitchen (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC): Madam I need to reiterate the fact that the CMA is bending when it says Speaker, I am glad to have a chance to speak to Bill C-45 regarding that the minimum age for cannabis consumption should be 21. All the legalization of cannabis across Canada. I would like to recognize scientific evidence to this point states that there are significantly the work of my colleague, the member for Sarnia—Lambton, and increased risks with the use of cannabis under the age of 25. It is thank her for her tireless efforts in ensuring all aspects of this matter simply irresponsible for the government to set the minimum age at are considered before the legislation moves forward. 18, let alone at 21.

There are many areas of concern surrounding the bill, mainly in That also leads me to this question. What is the government's the areas of how the legalization of cannabis will affect the general motivation? It says that it is a party of scientists and constantly health of population and issues surrounding youth. I have some remind us of just how important science is. However, on this issue, deep-rooted concerns about what the legalization of cannabis could the government chooses to ignore the facts. It is clear and utter do to Canada's youth. I will discuss these concerns in my remarks. hypocrisy. The science is clear on this health issue. 15228 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders Could this be because the Liberals are trying to appeal to a The legal technicalities and challenges will be astronomical, not to younger demographic of voters in hopes they will win the next mention the costs of training a police officer, which will be charged election? Is it appropriate for them to ignore the health and safety of to municipal governments, as well as provincial and federal police young Canadians so they can rush through legislation that will make agencies. them appealing to young voters?

Furthermore, if it comes out 10 years from now that the effects of It is absolutely irresponsible to move forward with legislation that cannabis use are much more damaging than was initially thought, as is clearly missing some major provisions that would keep our it was with tobacco, will the government be responsible for that? country and Canadians safe. There needs to be some sort of public Given that there is not a plethora of medical-based research on the education program before the legislation can be put in place so that long-term effects of cannabis use and given how rushed this Canadians, especially our youth, can understand the risks associated legislation is, will these Liberals take accountability for the results of with partaking in recreational cannabis. One month, two months, legalizing recreational cannabis use? I think not. I do not want to be three months, even nine months, assuming education starts today, the person who said, “I told you so”, but I will. The Liberals need to will not be enough. It astounds me that this was not considered by do their job to ensure the health and safety of all Canadians, and the the federal government when drafting this legislation. bill simply does not do that. ● (1535) As with other matters, such as the framework for palliative care, I would not be surprised to hear that the government is hefting the Another issue I have with this bill, and that many others have responsibility over to the provinces and territories, rather than taking expressed to me, has to do with the marketing and, more specifically, on this task itself. It needs to put on its grown-up pants and take on the packaging. All Canadians know that in recent years there has the responsibility to look at all aspects of this legislation instead of been a serious crackdown on how tobacco is marketed. We have all focusing on what makes it look cool. seen the grisly warnings on cigarette packaging. I am sure that many of us are familiar with the idea of plain packaging and other measures that serve to deter people from tobacco use. We know the In conclusion, we on this side of the House oppose the legalization consequences of smoking tobacco, such as breathing problems, of recreational cannabis based on evidence and testimony from emphysema, and lung cancer, but 50 years ago we did not. When the professionals, such as doctors, lawyers, scientists, law enforcement same happens in regard to cannabis, who will pay that bill? It will be officials, and many others. We will do everything possible to ensure the taxpayer once again, whom the Liberals have no problem that cannabis does not end up in the hands of children, something deferring their expenses to. this bill would actually allow.

Bill C-45 has absolutely zero provisions on how cannabis can be Unlike the Prime Minister, we will listen to the experts on this marketed. While tobacco products need to be covered in warnings matter who say the bill is flawed. I call on the government to stand and hidden from view behind store counters, cannabis will be up and do what is in the best interests of Canadians, and not what is allowed to have bright, flashy packaging, with no limitations on how in the best interests of the government in achieving its political goals. it can be marketed. To me, this is a clear double standard. Both This issue is more than about politics; it is the health, safety, and products are harmful to one's health, so why is one regulated and the well-being of our country that is on the line here. other not? It is yet another major oversight that this bill does not deal with. ● (1540) Of course, there is also the matter of public safety in general and how the legalization of cannabis could have serious negative impacts Mr. Bill Blair (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of on the well-being of Canadians. Drug-impaired driving is simply not Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of addressed at all in Bill C-45. A recent study by the Canadian Centre Health, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I will provide some reassurance to on Substance Abuse and Addiction put the costs of impaired driving my colleague across the way when he speaks about the lack of from cannabis at $1 billion. If we look at our neighbours in the U.S. legislation dealing with impaired driving. Just last week this House who have legalized recreational cannabis, we see that there has been passed Bill C-46 at third reading. My colleague's party did not vote a dramatic increase in fatal car accidents involving the use of for that bill, but it would provide all the authorities now required to cannabis, not to mention the fact there is currently no instrument that keep our roadways safe. We have included in that bill, which is now can accurately measure a person's level of impairment roadside. headed to the Senate, a promise to provide all the money that has been asked for and required to train police and to provide them with We cannot forget about the impact this legislation will have on our the required technologies. businesses, manufacturers, and employers. There are too many questions and no answers with respect to liability and workplace safety. This will affect on-the-job employee performance. Again, The member mentioned that he is concerned about the lack of how do we test for this? The increased cost to employers to account regulations regarding packaging, promotion, and advertising, etc. for this in policy, procedure, and implementation will further add to The legislation would allow for that, and those regulations are also the increased economic burden they are already experiencing under under development. He talked about the public education campaign. the current government. Our government has committed $46 million for such training. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15229

Government Orders Finally, the member talked about expertise. About 18 months ago, that it needs to be done appropriately to protect the public. This we formed a task force. That task force had representatives and legislation would not protect the public. experts in public safety, justice, public health, and problematic substance use. The task force received over 30,000 submissions from Canadians across the country, over 700 written submissions, and Hon. (Vancouver Centre, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I held hearings in every region of this country, where it heard from listened with a lot of interest to my colleague's remarks. He is a hundreds of experts. Based on that testimony, the members of the chiropractor and said that he is concerned about medical hazards, task force provided a series of recommendations to the government, and I believe him. I believe that he truly is concerned. I am a which took these very seriously. We have in fact engaged very physician, and would like to explain why I support this bill. broadly with that level of expertise. This is public policy based entirely on that evidence, and I hope that the knowledge of that will provide some of the reassurance my friend opposite seeks. Mr. Randy Hoback: Then you should know better. ● (1545) Mr. Robert Kitchen: Madam Speaker, the hon. member brought up a number of points. He talked about the money being put forward Hon. Hedy Fry: I do know better. for education. That money, as I stated in my speech, is not there today. It is not there for the education of young people. This legislation would allow 12-year-old children access to marijuana. It would allow children to have up to five grams of marijuana, to walk I support this bill. It is important to look at a 2015 UNICEF report around through schools or wherever they are and have it in their that showed that Canadian youth have the highest rates of cannabis hands. It is a shame that we see and hear such in this legislation. We smoking in the developed world, but at the same time also have the talk about educating children, and yet here we are leading them on lowest rates of cigarette smoking in the developed world. by giving them access to this medication. The member talked about the legislation dealing with impaired driving. The member may not know, but I was a victim of a stoned, The hon. member is right: cigarettes are legal. They are sold, impaired driver when I was 16 years old. That impaired driver got regulated, and subject to restrictions and legislation on how they are off free of charge. I was left for dead on the side of the road, with sold and packaged. The point is that 80% of Canadian youth in that brain matter draining out of my ear. Half of my face was gone. It survey said it was easy to get marijuana. Now, if we are concerned took me years to recover from that. Yet this member stands in front about youth, if we are concerned that 80% of them have access to of me, unfortunately, and tells me that this legislation is there to stop this illegal drug and have the highest rates of smoking this drug in people on the road when it will not keep people off the road. They the developed world, it tells us that what we had been doing has not are going to be out there and driving because there is no way to test been working. It tells us that we have been unable to stop our young them. There is no piece of equipment available to test and make sure people from getting access to cannabis, young people whose frontal that these people are off the road. lobes are very susceptible to the effects of cannabis. Mr. Kevin Waugh (Saskatoon—Grasswood, CPC): Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate our colleague on this side for his personal story, because it will be the personal stories of all Canadians As for all the things the hon. members spoke about regarding that will come out. This is just one of many that we have heard in the impaired driving, etc., it also means that they are going to be driving House. impaired, and that everyone is going to have access to this drug without our having any ability to regulate it, look at it, or look The packaging that the member for Souris—Moose Mountain backward at what the surveys are showing us to see what the issues talked about is a major concern. This country has hidden cigarettes are that are affecting people. It is obvious to me that we have to do from consumers when they go into stores, and now we are hearing this because we have to get rid of organized crime. The people that marijuana will be marketed in bright packages. I absolutely profiting off our youth are organized criminals, because they are cannot believe this. We have spent the last decade hiding cigarettes selling it to them. from everyone in society and having big messages on cigarette packages. Is it true that marijuana would be packaged in bright colours for everyone to see? It is very clear in the legislation that we will legalize this drug, Mr. Robert Kitchen: Madam Speaker, it is true. As the member then regulate it, and then put all of the legislation penalizing the sale said, we have spent many years trying to hurt the owners of small of tobacco to minors, with the same penalties, behind the selling of convenience stores for selling tobacco and have buried their product cannabis to minors. I do not know of any drug that is equivalent to behind their counters. That hurts them in two ways. First, they are tobacco. Tobacco is the only drug that, when used as directed, will being attacked by the current government for being small business kill us, because we will get heart disease, high blood pressure, owners, and second, the people who are out there selling marijuana emphysema, chronic lung disease, or a stroke as a result. The issue is would be able to market it in a big fancy way, put nice flavours into that we have this currently legal drug, but thanks to all of the it, and sell it free of any hindrance. I was a regulator once of the policies, programs, and legislation we have put in place for tobacco, chiropractic profession and know that regulation is one thing, but our children are now among the lowest users of tobacco in the world. 15230 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders If we take that template, look at the evidence that suggests that at cannabis-impaired driving, and we are going to have the training 80% of our youth can get cannabis, and recognize that we currently ready that is necessary for law enforcement officers. have the largest number of youth in the developed world smoking cannabis, we have to do something. Therefore, let us look at the experience we have had with tobacco. Let us look at this and continue to regulate it. Let us us make sure that it cannot be sold to What I like about this, which we never had with alcohol and anyone under the age of 18, and let us make sure we are monitoring tobacco that are still legal, is that we never put the kind of money impaired driving and use. into that proactive public education, public awareness, public understanding that there are side effects to this drug, as there are For instance, we know there are tools that exist right now to to alcohol and tobacco. The appropriate usage, the amount of monitor impaired driving. At Christmas time we see the police out dosage, this is where we will be able to start building the research on the roads looking for people who are drinking and driving. Look capacity, the indicators, etc., that will tell us what is the appropriate at how much MADD has done with respect to the issue of drinking way to use this drug. and driving. What we are trying to do now is to try to achieve the same results so that we can eventually have our young people among the lowest users of cannabis in the same world, in the same way they are among the lowest users of tobacco. Keeping it out of the hands of our children is the priority for me. It Not to do this would be absolutely irresponsible of this is the biggest responsibility this government has, and looking at all government, given that evidence, and so I do support this bill. I of the evidence—and our friend talked about evidence-based agree with the member that we have to keep monitoring. Cannabis is decision-making; this is evidence-based decision-making—at least not used or consumed just via smoking. We need to look at the we will be keeping our children safe; at least we will be monitoring impact of smoking or using cannabis in other forms. There is oil, usage; at least we will be checking up on who is selling and why. leaves, and brownies, and all kinds of other ways of using cannabis. The penalties for people selling to minors is particularly high. It is a We need to consider we look at the quantity and quality of the maximum of two years in jail, or is it $5 million, or $3 million? We cannabis, because we want to make sure that people are not getting are looking at the same kinds of penalties we have for tobacco, yet I what they are now. I understand that the best bud in the world comes do not hear any members across the way talking about tobacco. I do from British Columbia. We need to be able to look at that kind of not hear them talking about the ills of tobacco. Maybe we should not qualitative analysis when considering the amount of cannabis in a legalize tobacco. Maybe we should make tobacco illegal, if they care cigarette, or whatever a person is using. that much for the health of Canadians. ● (1550) These are important things for us to regulate and monitor if we really care about the medical effects and if we really care about the Maybe we should look at how we deal with alcohol, because at use of it, and yet, I point out that cannabis has positive benefits, Christmas when police are standing on the streets with a Breath- which I cannot say for tobacco. Cannabis has positive benefits, and alyzer, they are checking for what drug? They are checking for we know it is used for neurological pain and in terminal illness to alcohol. We know that these drugs have negative effects. We know deal with the side effects of chemotherapy. We know it is useful in that one or two of them have some positive effects. I understand that many instances. There is proof that there are some medical uses. there was work being done to say that red wine taken in moderate How we monitor that will come through regulations. How we look at amounts is good for our heart and our blood pressure. what the impacts are will come through regulations. It also means that, when we have a piece of legislation, we do our homework and we do our surveys and we check out how many I am saying we have a responsibility to bring forward this people are using, how many children are using, what the reasons are legislation, and anyone who stands in the House and says they care that they still use, how we can tighten that legislation. All of those about our youth and about the health of Canadians would support things are things we will treat the way we did with tobacco. this, because it is a way to begin to control something that right now is not controlled at all. At the moment, I see this as a good bill. Prohibition did not work. I see this as protecting our youth. I see this as preventing the supplier right now, which is organized crime, from being able to supply on the black market, in schools, and everywhere. I see the idea of ● (1555) putting a ban on promotion to youth so that we are not going to have the nice gaudy little things that appeal to youth, but packaging that is not going to appeal to youth. That is part of the legislation when we talk about looking at packaging. The devil is in the details. Hon. Peter Kent (Thornhill, CPC): Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague, a medical doctor by profession, for her speech today. It is important to look at the fact that we are talking about non- She mentioned the provinces and she mentioned prohibition. She did promotional packaging to youth. It is important to work with the not mention the fact that all responsibility for the sale, distribution, provinces, because it is provincial police and city police who are monitoring, and enforcement of the laws has been downloaded by going to be looking at impaired driving. We have tools now to look the federal government to the provinces. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15231

Government Orders My riding of Thornhill is in the province of Ontario where the marijuana. The government wants to increase the tax. It will make premier has told us that cannabis will be distributed by what is the price so high that organized crime will easily— known as the LCBO, the Liquor Control Board of Ontario. It was set The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I am up after prohibition to control the distribution of alcohol, but it sorry. There is only so much time for questions and comments, and should be rightly characterized today as the liquor promotion board people have to keep their questions and comments short enough that of Ontario because once a month a shiny, glossy magazine is we can get answers. delivered to virtually every Ontarian promoting the variety of exciting ways people can consume alcohol. The hon. member for Vancouver Centre has 30 seconds, please. How can the member ensure and guarantee Ontarians that the Hon. Hedy Fry: Madam Speaker, the member answered his own LCBO will not promote cannabis in exactly the same way, which question. No one is talking here about raising taxes on anything. We would be counter to all of the concern we hear from the government are talking about regulating a drug that has very negative side side about the status quo not working, Canada being the largest effects. We are talking about keeping it out of the hands of our youth consumer of marijuana and marijuana products? How can it children. We are talking about regulating the ability to promote. We guarantee governments like Ontario are not going to actually are talking about selling to youth. This is what we are doing here. We accelerate and increase the number of young people using cannabis? are not talking about taxes. The hon. member needs to read the legislation better. Hon. Hedy Fry: Madam Speaker, my colleague is a very thoughtful man and I appreciate his question. [Translation] Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Ma- He mentioned the downloading, as he calls it, of the sale, dam Speaker, I am pleased to speak again to Bill C-45 now that it is distribution, and use of cannabis to the provinces. At the moment, at the report stage, having previously commented on certain aspects the provinces are responsible for the sale, use, and distribution of of the bill at the second reading stage. I will not go over that again, alcohol. At the moment, the provinces are responsible for the sale, but I would like to address certain elements that were changed in use, and distribution of tobacco. We are actually following what is an committee, especially the 100-centimetre limit on plant height, appropriate place for this to be monitored, at the ground level, not which seemed a bit arbitrary to me. I could not understand where somewhere up on high in the federal government. The overarching that number had come from. legislation is still there. In committee, experts told us this limit might actually backfire, The idea of promoting it is an interesting one, because the because shorter plants tend to have higher concentrations of THC, legislation talks about fines for promotion. Obviously, this was not producing stronger psychoactive effects. The 100-centimetre limit so for alcohol. We have legislation here that looks at promotion, so was therefore removed, which was a good thing. the provinces are going to be guided by that idea of promoting this drug and of promoting it the way we see alcohol being promoted. In committee, it also became clear that the Liberal government is not interested in getting the best bill possible. It was so partisan that We have learned some things from tobacco and alcohol that we when the NDP proposed an amendment to eliminate the 100- are implementing here with regard to promotion. It took us a long centimetre limit, the Liberals insisted on voting it down and time to stop the promotion. Members may recall all the nice proposing their own version a few minutes later saying the exact fireworks that we had that were run by tobacco companies. It took us same thing, just because they did not want us to beat them to the a lot of time to stop that promotion. I was one of the people who punch. That may not be the best way to treat such a serious issue. I fought in the House for us to stop that promotion. We learned a am disappointed. lesson. We are not going to allow that kind of promotion to occur. Initially, we did not plan for edible products to be allowed, but this ● (1600) has changed. We will allow them but only in one year. I would like Mr. Robert Sopuck (Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, CPC): to speak to this particular issue, which I believe is quite important. Madam Speaker, I was astonished to hear my colleague opposite talk about the health benefits of marijuana. Here is the position of the Dried cannabis has to be smoked, which is toxic for the lungs. Canadian Medical Association: Any inhaled smoke has a certain degree of pulmonary toxicity, The CMA has longstanding concerns about the health risks associated with whether it comes from a cattail or a cigarette. However, according to consuming marijuana, particularly in smoked form. the studies I have read, cannabis smoke is apparently 10 times more Children and youth are particularly at risk for marijuana-related harms, given their toxic for the lungs than tobacco smoke. Let me be clear: I am not brain is undergoing rapid, extensive development. telling people to smoke cigarettes. All I am saying is that cannabis is highly toxic for the lungs when it is inhaled. I would like to focus, however, on the government's claim that somehow legalizing marijuana will put paid to the illegal trade. A Thus, by allowing that substance to be included in food, we would perfect policy experiment just happened in the last decade or so, and at least eliminate the issue of pulmonary toxicity. In spite of that, it that is the case of cigarettes. Cigarettes are legal. They are so-called was decided to allow people to smoke cannabis before allowing controlled. They are kept out of the hands of children, and so on. them to eat it, which is illogical. Many people in my riding did not However, the illegal trade has not only flourished, but it has understand why people were being encouraged not to smoke tobacco expanded, and that is because, as the taxes on “legal” tobacco are just about everywhere, while at the same time, smoking another increased, it is very easy for organized crime to undercut the so- substance would become legal. I can see why people might be called government cigarettes. The exact same thing will happen with confused. 15232 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders Furthermore, when cannabis is ingested in its edible form, be it as had. Our knowledge is not based on conventional clinical research, a syrup or lozenge, it is much easier to determine accurately the but on personal experiences compiled over time. Since some concentration of its two active ingredients. I would like to say a few discoveries were based on anecdotal medical evidence, the results words about these two ingredients, because they are important. are not 100% reliable. These studies have yielded some interesting results. It is important to bear in mind that even though we are talking First, cannabis contains two cannabinoids: THC and CBD, also about recreational use, many people still take cannabis for medical called tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol. These two substances purposes. Even though they do not have a prescription, they decide seem to have a different effect on our body's endocannabinoid to try cannabis and find that it helps with their insomnia or other system. THC is the psychoactive ingredient, and it is believed to act health problems. on the immune system in such a way as to reduce inflammation, alleviate pain, enhance the mood, trigger euphoria, increase appetite, Singling out recreational use and completely ignoring those who relax the muscles, reduce certain types of seizures and relieve use cannabis for self-medication is not right. We need more nausea. information so we can better educate people on the actual effects ● (1605) of cannabis. We must not forget that it is also the substance that produces One of the problems is that we currently do not have that euphoria. information, and many people who might decide to take cannabis could be endangering their health, because they do not fully Cannabidiol does not produce a euphoric effect. It is used much understand the substance or the circumstances in which it might be more for pain relief, reducing nausea and anxiety, controlling useful or dangerous. epilepsy, immunosuppression, and muscle relaxation. It is also an anti-psychotic, it reduces inflammation and insomnia, and it is This bill should have placed more emphasis on health and the calming. prevention of side effects. I also sincerely believe that not allowing edible products, only dried herb products, is somewhat illogical. The reason I wanted to take the time to explain this is that many studies have shown the pot available on the streets has increasingly ● (1610) high concentrations of THC and lower and lower concentrations of [English] cannabidiol. That is why we are seeing more and more episodes of toxic psychosis: cannabidiol tends to neutralize the more psychotic NOTICE OF TIME ALLOCATION MOTION effects that may occur. Hon. Amarjeet Sohi (Minister of Infrastructure and Commu- The product on the streets has higher levels of THC, which means nities, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I would like to advise that agreement that it is becoming riskier. could not be reached under the provisions of Standing Orders 78(1) or 78(2) with respect to the report stage and third reading stage of The reason I wanted to explain this is because it would make it Bill C-45, an act respecting cannabis and to amend the Controlled possible to have edible products in which all chemical substances Drugs and Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other acts. could be carefully controlled. It would also make it possible to prevent some of the side effects that are common with the Under the provisions of Standing Order 78(3), I give notice that a increasingly stronger strains of street drugs. One way to better minister of the crown will propose at the next sitting a motion to allot control side effects and psychosis is to increase cannabidiol and a specific number of days or hours for the consideration and disposal reduce THC. of proceedings of the said stages.

When it comes to dried herb products, it is really hard to control REPORT STAGE the concentration of substance in each product. What that means is that we are about to legalize a product that is much more difficult to The House resumed consideration of Bill C-45, An Act control, but we are waiting to legislate on edible products, even respecting cannabis and to amend the Controlled Drugs and though they would be much easier to control and it would be easier Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other Acts, as reported to limit THC and cannabidiol concentrations. (with amendment) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1. I find that a little strange. It would have made a lot more sense to legalize edibles right away, while imposing limits on the various Mr. Colin Carrie (Oshawa, CPC): Madam Speaker, first, how substances, such as THC and CBD, to determine how much of each outrageous is this. The Liberals want to bring in legislation that we substance could go in the products. have studied at committee and experts have said that the bill will not do what the Liberals have told Canadians it will do, that it will not The other reason it might be particularly useful to allow edible get not get the job done. products and to be able to control each chemical is for the purposes of research and improving our understanding of this substance. Even I have a question for my NDP colleague. Many of the things she though medical pot has been in use for a decade or so, the fact brought forward are reasonable and sensible. They identify the remains that knowledge of its effects on the human body is often problems with the bill. It will not get the job done, as the Liberals based on anecdotal evidence. Essentially, this means someone started have promised Canadians, to keep it out of the hands of kids and taking it on their own and found that it helped with a condition they away from organized crime. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15233

Government Orders My question for the member is one that many people have government cannot just say that it is going to make investments and ignored. It is about the three international trade agreements to which then leave it up to others to take the necessary action. Canada has been a signatory. They basically state that stated we would not legalize marijuana. If the Liberals wanted to get out of [English] these trade agreements, they had to state that in July. What effect will the bill have on our international reputation, on our international Mr. Michael Cooper (St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC): Madam ability to trade, especially with our most important trading partner, Speaker, I rise this afternoon to speak to Bill C-45, the government's the United States, especially when we are undergoing NAFTA marijuana legalization legislation. negotiations? Will it be detrimental or will it help open up the border? It is a little more than 200 days until July 1, 2018, and a little more than 200 days before the Liberal government plans to legalize ● (1615) marijuana in Canada. With a little more than 200 days to go, the [Translation] provinces are saying that they are not ready. The municipalities are Ms. Christine Moore: Madam Speaker, I may not have the saying that they cannot be ready. Law enforcement agencies are expertise to know what impact this will have on the free trade saying that they are not ready and they cannot be ready for July 1. In agreements, but it is clear that the Liberals need to immediately get turn, the government is saying it really does not care that they are not to work with regard to the three trade agreements that my colleague ready, because it is moving ahead with July 1, 2018, ready or not. mentioned. Talk about irresponsibility on the part of the government. Then again, we are dealing with a reckless government that is prepared to I also think that we need to take into account the fact that two U.S. put the health and safety of Canadians at risk, all so their pot- states decided to legalize marijuana. I do not know what sort of smoking Prime Minister can actually keep an election promise. impact that will have on the free trade negotiations, whether it will be positive or negative, but I do know that the Liberals need to act The issues the municipalities and the provinces face in order to now to resolve the issue of the three agreements we have signed that deal with the effects of legalization are manifold. The provinces will prohibit the trade of cannabis. have to deal with issues around workplace safety, employment [English] standards, and traffic safety. The municipalities will have to deal with issues around licensing, zoning, enforcement, and inspection. Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Madam Speaker, could the member comment on the government's plan to With so much work to do and so little time to do it, no wonder the properly prepare for the implementation of the legislation. This provinces and the municipalities are saying to the government, afternoon we have heard a lot about this. In particular, there are $274 “Slow down. Give us time to do what we need to do”. In that regard, million to support law enforcement; another $161 million for some provinces have not yet even unveiled a plan, not even training front-line officers; $81 million over the next five years for announced a plan to deal with issues around implementation and continued training of officers; and $46 million over five years for regulation of marijuana. public education, awareness, and surveillance. What does the member think of that money? Does she concur that Lisa Holmes, who was the mayor very recently of Morinville, it is necessary to put the funds into the preparation, as the about 10 kilometres north of my home town of St. Albert, appeared government has done? before the health committee in her capacity as the president of the Alberta Urban Municipalities Association. She indicated that 96% of [Translation] urban municipalities in Alberta did not have bylaws or policies in Ms. Christine Moore: Madam Speaker, the problem with the place to deal with the regulation of marijuana in their communities current government is that it seems to believe that money is the because there was a lack of clarity about the breadth and substance solution to all problems. of regulations, both at a provincial and federal level. I think 96% of urban municipalities in Alberta is not unique to Alberta. I think we It is not the amount that is important, but what is done with it. The would find a similar pattern right across Canada. government needs a strategy. The Liberals can throw as many numbers around as they like, but what counts is how that money is With respect to law enforcement agencies, it is clear they are not used. Does the government have a specific plan? Does it know ready. They are saying that they are not ready, and they cannot be where it is going? The government seems to think that money is the ready. The government has basically put them in an impossible solution to all problems. The Minister of Finance throws money position with the rush and the arbitrary July 1, 2018, deadline. around saying that he will repay what he never should have earned because he was in a conflict of interest and he thinks that will magically make everything better. That is not a responsible attitude. Let us look at the facts in this regard. The Canadian Association of It is not the amount of money that counts. It is what is done with it. Chiefs of Police indicated that in order to deal with impaired drivers and more Canadians who would be consuming marijuana, and in The government could allocate smaller amounts if it knew exactly order to train their officers, there was a need for about 6,000 officers where it was going and what it was going to do. In my opinion, it is to receive training. That training takes about 100 days. The not the amount that matters. What matters is knowing exactly what is association is saying that it cannot take 6,000 officers off the streets going to be done with the money and having a strategy. The for 100 days by July 1, 2018, that it is just impossible. 15234 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders ● (1620) dollars of additional profit by delaying action that will check that profit. I am not ready to leave in the hands of criminals, those who Then there is the issue of drug recognition experts. Right now, really do not care about our kids, the health and safety of those who there are approximately 600 drug recognition experts in Canada. It would consume what they are selling. I am not ready to continue to has been said that there is a need for as many as 2,000 drug deal with the violence that is visited on so many communities in this recognition experts to deal with the effects of marijuana legalization. country by people involved in illegal drug trafficking. When an official from Public Safety Canada came before the justice committee during its study of Bill C-46, I asked that official where things were with respect to drug recognition experts and where we I ask the member if he is ready to tolerate those circumstances, would be by July 1, 2018. The response I got was that by July 1, because in my experience, there seem to be two things the group 2018, there might be an additional 100 drug recognition experts. In opposite hates. It hates the way things are and it hates changing the other words, we would go from 600 to 700 drug recognition experts, way things are. when there is a need for as many as 2,000 drug recognition experts. Mr. Michael Cooper: Madam Speaker, if the government was I know that a little earlier the Parliamentary Secretary to the truly interested in keeping marijuana out of the hands of our kids, it Minister of Justice alluded to the fact that this House had passed Bill would back off from its policy on homegrown marijuana. How is C-46 in conjunction with this legislation, Bill C-45. One aspect of that going to keep marijuana out of the hands of our kids? I do not Bill C-46 is per se limits for THC levels for drug-impaired drivers. know if it occurred to the government, but just about everyone under The only problem with that is that there is absolutely no correlation the age of 18 happens to live in a home, and it is proposing to allow whatsoever between drug impairment and THC levels. What that is up to four marijuana plants per home. There was evidence before the going to mean is that people will get behind the wheel impaired and health committee that a one-metre tall marijuana plant can produce get away with it. They will get off because of the government's up to 600 grams of marijuana. arbitrary and unscientific per se limits.

Municipalities, provinces, and law enforcement are not ready, and There we have it. The government would keep marijuana out of frankly, Canadians are not ready either for the July 1, 2018, date. the hands of kids by putting it in their homes, not to mention all the In the justice committee's study of Bill C-46, and when I read the issues around diversion and crime in the state of Colorado associated transcripts from the health committee, there were a number of with homegrown. According to the parliamentary secretary, the witnesses who cited various surveys and studies that indicated that a government wants to keep it out of the hands of our kids. What a large percentage of Canadians, particularly young Canadians, have load. What hypocrisy. What nonsense. misconceptions about the effects of marijuana usage. This was recognized by the government's own marijuana legalization task ● (1630) force as an issue. The task force, in its report, recommended to the government that it have an early and sustained public awareness [Translation] campaign. What we have seen from the government is not an early and sustained public awareness campaign. We see a campaign that is Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Ma- barely off the ground, with little more than 200 days before the July dam Speaker, what does my colleague think is the biggest problem 1, 2018, date. related to cannabis at the moment? Is it the pressure on the legal Do members know who else is not ready for July 1, 2018? The system because of people charged with simple possession and all the government is not ready. Its marijuana legalization bill, Bill C-45, is repercussions that go along with that, for instance, the delays an absolute shambles of a piece of legislation. It is going to create because of the number of cases before the courts, or is my colleague more problems than it solves. more concerned about the taxes not being collected? Which of those two problems regarding cannabis is the member more concerned Let us look at the whole picture. Bill C-45 is going to make our about? kids, our roads, and our communities less safe. We have a government that has absolutely no plan in terms of a coordinated [English] effort with the provinces and municipalities, Law enforcement does not have the tools and resources to be ready for July 1, 2018, and Mr. Michael Cooper: Madam Speaker, while the government there has not been a sufficient public awareness campaign to get often talks about reducing the backlog in our courts, what this Canadians ready. Taken together, the government needs to put the legislation may actually do is increase the backlog. For example, this brakes on July 1, 2018, and go back to the drawing board. legislation provides that Canadians could possess up to 30 grams of ● (1625) marijuana. However, it contains provisions that if they possessed 31 Mr. Bill Blair (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of grams of marijuana, they would be criminals, with serious penalties. Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of We have sentences in Bill C-45 of up to 14 years. Arguably, those Health, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I have often heard comments from are not consistent with other similar offences. On that front, I think the other side about the people over here just not being ready, but I the government has really not thought this through, and what Bill want to tell the member opposite what I am not ready for. I am not C-45 would result in is a further backlog in our courts. The bottom ready to leave the health and safety of Canadian kids in the hands of line is that no matter how one looks at this, Bill C-45 is a complete criminals. I am not ready to see organized crime make billions of and absolute failure. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15235

Government Orders Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister will help eliminate organized crime. The head of the RCMP said of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Madam that. Speaker, the problem I have with the speech the member opposite ● (1635) gave is that it fails to reflect the reality of what already exists today, [English] which is that Canada has the highest rate of cannabis use by young people in the world. The use of tobacco, including illicit tobacco that Those people who know the business, those people who have to is not sold legally, which a member spoke about earlier, is half that deal day after day with the reality of the consumption of marijuana rate among young people. With the total and abject failure of policies and other drugs, will tell them clearly that if they think criminal to this point, would the member not agree that the status quo is not people will put that aside and kill their criminal activities, they are working for young people and that we need a different approach? being naive. This is totally unacceptable. Those who know the Mr. Michael Cooper: Madam Speaker, I would say that I reject business say do not go there. the approach taken by the government, which is to legalize, [Translation] normalize, and promote the use of marijuana. We can look at the state of Colorado, for example, which went down this road. Prior to It is the same for the provinces. Whether we are talking about legalization, marijuana use among youth in the state of Colorado British Columbia, Newfoundland and Labrador, Saskatchewan, ranked 14th in the U.S. After legalization, Colorado is now number Quebec, or any other province, not one minister of health, not one one. One only need look south of the border and apply some basic minister of justice, not one minister of housing, not one provincial common sense to know that legalizing and normalizing marijuana is premier cheered for the Liberal government's new approach. On the not the way to reduce marijuana usage among young people. contrary, our provinces are grappling with the implications for their jurisdictions. The provinces will also be saddled with millions of [Translation] dollars of spending on health, social services, security, training, and equipment. All of this thanks to the Liberals in Ottawa. The The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): It is my provinces could really have done without this. duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as This is being rushed through. Municipalities are being affected follows: the hon. member for Salaberry—Suroît, Marijuana; the hon. too. They have to adjust their bylaws to accommodate the Liberal member for Yellowhead, Forestry Industry; the hon. member for government's ridiculous plan to allow every Canadian household to Peace River—Westlock, Aerospace Industry. grow four pot plants up to three feet high. Will that be great for Mr. Gérard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Madam Canada or what? As everyone here knows, a house where pot is Speaker, it is with great disgust and sadness that I rise today to being grown is not two times or four times or 10 times more likely to speak again to this bad bill that will have a major impact on the lives catch fire, but 24 times more likely to catch fire. That is a fact. of our children, adolescents, and parents. If by some misfortune this People are going to have to deal with that situation. How are multi- bill is passed and the government's goal of legalizing marijuana on unit building owners supposed to deal with that? How can they July 1, 2018, is achieved, this will have an adverse and terrifying check on things? How can they be sure everything is safe? They effect on Canadian families. cannot retroactively prohibit people from doing it because there is already a lease in place. Legalizing marijuana normalizes it and that is not the message we How is this going to work in each of the provinces? Every want to send to our young people. From now on, under the Liberal province has its own jurisdiction. Every province will do things its government, it will be legal to smoke pot, a gateway drug for all own way. Every municipality will have to pass bylaws, and that other drugs. No one knows anyone who just one day decides to start opens up a whole can of worms. What is the government doing using cocaine or other hard drugs. It always starts with a little joint about that? The federal government says this is all up to the and ends with hard drugs. This Liberal government is practically provinces and it will not interfere. The Liberal government is the one giving unholy permission to use drugs for the first time. After that, causing these problems. the procession of family tragedies that this will generate, the procession of lives destroyed, and the procession of incredibly The current Liberal government, which is proposing to normalize destructive problems that Canadians will face, like the people of marijuana by legalizing it, is creating a whole host of problems and Colorado and Washington have for far too many years, will be on the washing its hands of them because they do not fall under its Liberal government. jurisdiction, but that of the police, municipalities, and provinces. In Canada, the Liberal government's initiative did not meet with Even worse, the government, because of an obsession unbecom- the approval of the police, municipalities, or the provinces. Let us ing of any elected representative of any stripe, is pushing for the first talk about the police. They are telling us in all honesty that in bill's passage and implementation by July 1. the unfortunate event that this bill goes ahead, there will be a host of [English] problems on our roads, in society, and with the preventative measures that we will need. It is impossible to assemble and I will never understand how the government decided, without appropriately equip every police force from coast to coast to coast in laughing at people, that the launch date for legalization would be order for them to respond directly to the new challenges that this bad Canada Day. There are 365 days in a year, and it chose Canada Day Liberal legislation will give rise to. The head of the RCMP recently to launch its bad policy. It is totally unacceptable, and un-Canadian said that it would be naive to believe that the new Liberal legislation to do that. 15236 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I will be proud to sing O Canada, but be assured, I will never sing it is okay. They will come home and say everything is okay because O cannabis on July 1. We are laughing, but it is not a joke because the Prime Minister of Canada told them they could. Is this the type of here, in the House of Commons, we have seen so many great Canada country we want to build for our children? Not at all. Days. On the other hand, we have also seen so many stupid and obvious demonstrations by those who smoke marijuana in front of The same goes for the four pot plants which the Liberal Parliament. We will see people there, smoking marijuana. That is a government will authorize in every household. This represents real shame. It will not be a great Canada Day in 2018, thanks to the 600 grams of pot per house, and yet, we are told this is meant to Liberals. protect children. The opposite is true. Children will have direct ● (1640) access to 600 grams of pot. For these reasons and many others, we must reject this bill. [Translation] [English] Let us remember the example: unfortunately, two U.S. states, Colorado and Washington, decided to legalize marijuana. What has Mr. Bill Blair (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of happened after some years of legalization? Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of Health, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I have a couple of points I want to In Colorado, three times as many people have been hospitalized raise. for marijuana related problems since it was legalized. The Liberals tell us that the problem will be solved. On the contrary, it will make First of all, I assure the member opposite that the date of it worse. There has been a 108% and 68% increase in overdoses in enactment will not be July 1, Canada Day, a day that is special to all Colorado and the State of Washington respectively. Will that solve Canadians. I can say with great assurance that it will not be that day. the problems? On the contrary, it will generate twice as many In my opinion, that day is a sacred day for the celebration of the birth problems and give rise to new ones. of this country, and we will not be doing the enactment of this proposed legislation on that day. We will not be doing it on July 1. The number of traffic accidents has doubled in the State of Washington and tripled in Colorado. The Liberals are saying, with a I also want to remind the member and a number of people on the straight face, that, on the contrary, it will resolve problems, because other side who are saying that we cannot fight organized crime, that I we are currently unable to manage them. They are going to legalize respectfully disagree. I would also remind them that in this proposed marijuana and solve the problems. legislation, the offences of illegal production of cannabis, illegal It is quite the opposite. There will be twice as many problems in trafficking of cannabis, and illegal importation and exportation of certain situations and we will make things worse. Is it not a fact that, cannabis would remain serious criminal offences with substantial after California, Colorado has the largest illegal production of criminal penalties for those who would break the law. The only marijuana? cannabis that would be available for purchase and consumption by adult Canadians would be cannabis produced under strict regulation. [English] Those people say, with that, we will kill, we will attack, we will be I offer that to the member simply to remind him, in response to his aggressive with the criminals. That is not true. The criminals are concerns about dealing with organized crime, that law enforcement laughing today. They are saying: “Oh, that's great, the dirty job of will still have all the tools and authorities it requires to fight the introducing people to marijuana for the first time will be done under scourge of organized crime in our communities. the Liberals. That's fantastic. The government will do the dirty job, ● (1645) and after that we'll enjoy it because those kids will then be able to use other harder drugs”. That is a Liberal reality. That is why we will Mr. Gérard Deltell: Madam Speaker, what he said is brand new never accept this kind of bill. to me, and I think brand new to Canada. The parliamentary secretary just announced that it will be not July 1. Is that true? Is it written in [Translation] the bill? Is it not written in the bill that everyone should be ready for We need to remember that normalizing the legalization of July 1, and that every province and municipality should be ready for marijuana has an unfortunate effect on children. I will quote Ms. July 1? If they have changed their minds, that is a first step toward Seychelle Harding, director of communications for the Portage reality, but there are also some other steps for them to take. group's addiction rehabilitation centres, who said, “It is clear that just saying it, writing it, talking about it sends a message to young people The parliamentary secretary talked about people on the criminal that it is okay.” That is the reality of the Liberal government. It sends side, because the bill would be very strict, and so if they import a message saying it is okay when, in fact, nothing good will come of drugs, they will be very careful. They are doing that now, and will this. continue to do so. However, the problem is that with the Liberals' bill, the kids will have access to that. Also, beginning July 1, if the bill unfortunately passes, 12-year- old children will be allowed to have five grams of pot in their [Translation] pockets. I was very surprised to hear that five grams can be 10 to 15 joints. That is the reality. We are going to downplay the use of marijuana, and that is the problem caused by the Liberal bill. From now on, teenagers will tell Come June, young boys and girls, 12-year-old sixth graders, will their parents it is legal and it is their right. They will use it and go to walk around the school yard with 15 joints in their pockets thinking the neighbour's house because he has pot. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15237

Government Orders The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Order. I chiefs of police. This is a responsible approach, one that Canadians have to give some time to other members so that they can ask would be very supportive of, but not of the bill that we see in front of questions. us. The hon. member for Rivière-des-Mille-Îles. Ms. Linda Lapointe (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I commend my colleague for describing the situation with The Liberals claim that the status quo is not working, but how enthusiasm and passion. He says that this is not good for young does the Liberal government define that? According to a Statistics people, but in fact young people 18 and under have access to Canada report dated April 2015, based on data collected from the marijuana. Canadian community health survey on mental health, the total percentage of teens aged 15-17, which is the target group, reporting In my riding, we held a consultation in September. Dr. Goyer, having used marijuana had dropped from 40% in 2002 to 25% in director of public health in the Laurentian area said that 32% of 2012. That is a 15 percentage point decrease. This means that people 18 and under in Quebec had used cannabis over the past year. something in the status quo is working, but why are the Liberals not In the Laurentian area, it is 50%. That is not good. That is why we telling Canadians about that? What are the Liberals saying? They are have to put this in the hands of the law and engage in education and saying they want to legalize marijuana because it will it out of the prevention. hands of our kids and keep the profits out of the hands of organized crime. We agree with that. These are good ideas, but does C-45 I imagine that the hon. member, whom I have known for many accomplish that objective? Anyone who has read the bill would say years, has children. Mine are 25, 23, 21, and 18. They all told me no. that it is easier to buy marijuana than it is to buy alcohol and cigarettes because those are legal and cannot be purchased without showing identification. I come from the retail sector, which is subject to very strict laws with very harsh penalties for those who sell At the health committee we had scientists testify, and the science products to people 18 and under. is clear. Any use of marijuana under the age of 25 can cause permanent psychological damage to our kids, and currently the bill We need to legalize cannabis and put very strict measures in place. allows kids aged 12 to 17, as young as grade 6, to possess up to five I would like to know what my colleague has to say about that. grams of marijuana, equivalent to 10 to 15 joints. That is ridiculous Mr. Gérard Deltell: Madam Speaker, I just want to point out that in light of the medical evidence of the harm it can cause our youth. this is the second time a Liberal member has asked me a question, There is no provision to prevent them from selling or distributing even though people on this side had risen. cannabis. The amount should be zero. The worst thing we could do would be to let children as young as 12 carry 15 joints. The member and the Liberals may well say that educating young people is important, but where is the educational I am asked if a child in grade 6 could share it with younger kids. value in letting 12-year-olds, grade 6 students, walk around the That is an important question. It is a great concern of parents and schoolyard with 15 joints in their pockets? teachers. It would allow drug dealers to target kids and use them for profit. I am sorry, but a sign of normalization like this would be the worst thing this government could do. [English] Bill C-45 allows up to four plants to be grown in the home. Any Mr. Colin Carrie (Oshawa, CPC): Madam Speaker, I am home can become a grow op. Four plants under the right conditions pleased to rise in the House today to speak to Bill C-45, the cannabis can yield up to 600 grams or 1,200 to 1,800 joints. This is a concern act. I have been here since 2004 and it is probably one of the most for homeowners, landlords, law enforcement. Moreover, there is no badly written pieces of legislation I have ever seen, and there is some mandatory testing for the potency or toxicity of the homegrown frustration on this side in that regard because we have heard the plants, and no money for inspection. There is no federal requirement Liberals are going to bring in time allocation. For a bill of such to lock up the marijuana. This is going to expose kids and even pets importance and such reach within our provinces and territories, the to the drugs. Grow ops lead to a 24-fold increase in incidents requirement to have different Houses of Parliament coordinated on involving fire. Landlords are concerned that they will not be able to this is totally irresponsible. forbid grow ops or smoking if they are already renting their properties. I want my colleagues, especially on the Liberal side, to understand that there are certain important points to bear in mind in my speech. First of all, everyone agrees that too many kids are smoking marijuana. In my community of Oshawa, no one wants to see a kid Other jurisdictions that have legalized marijuana have said that who has a couple of joints get a criminal record or get thrown into home grows were hugely penetrated by organized crime. We know it jail. Most Canadians would agree with that, and that is why it is from the science and the evidence out there. For this reason, really important that Canadians recognize that the Conservatives Washington state does not allow home grows, except for medically favour making the possession of small amounts of marijuana a fragile people who cannot get to a dispensary. It has been able to ticketable offence only. This is exactly in line with the position of the reduce organized crime to less than 20% of the market. 15238 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders The legal opinion is that allowing four plants per dwelling will The Liberals talk about the black market. One of the stated goals end up being challenged in court as well. The government has not is to eliminate the black market by creating a legal framework for thought through the bill. There will not only be danger in the homes marijuana, but this is a flawed way of thinking. A variety of factors of Canadians, but on the roads too. Drug-impaired driving is not are being left up to the provinces, such as pricing, distribution, which addressed in Bill C-45. It is encompassed in Bill C-46, but a study products are included, and packaging. recently issued by the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse and Addiction put the cost of impaired driving from cannabis at one billion dollars. The AAA found there has been a large increase in the We need to listen to the real experts on the ground. number of fatal accidents in Washington state involving the use of marijuana after the state legalized the drug. In fact, impaired driving has increased in the American states that have legalized it, and there is no current instrument that can accurately measure one's level of Assistant Commissioner Joanne Crampton, of federal policing impairment on the roadside. The science is not there yet. criminal operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, said: ● (1650) Canada is unable to train our own officers in Canada and needs to As Kathy mentioned, organized crime is a high priority for federal policing, in particular, for the RCMP. We target the highest echelon within the organized crime send our officers to expensive, lengthy training in the United States, world. We're very cognizant...and realize that the chances of organized crime being and this training currently has wait lists. eliminated in the cannabis market would be.... It's probably naive to think that could happen. The legalization of marijuana will definitely impact our ability to trade internationally. Have the Liberals noticed that we are negotiating NAFTA? Do the Liberals think that having a drug Naive, that is what the experts say about the Liberal approach. policy way out of sync with our American neighbours will improve trade or thicken the border? For Oshawa and my community, this is a huge problem, as it is for other communities as well. Our Conservative position is the same as the Canadian chiefs of Let us look at the treaties. Passing Bill C-45 would violate three police position, to issue tickets for the simple possession of small UN treaties to which Canada is a signatory. In order to legalize amounts of marijuana. This approach is more sensible regarding marijuana by July 1 and not be in violation of the UN treaties, marijuana possession. Instead of rushing to legalize marijuana, Canada would have had to withdraw by July 1 of this year, and the Conservatives are working with law enforcement to protect the Liberal government did not do that. How can Canada hold other health and safety of Canadians. Canadians would be spared a countries to account on their treaty obligations when Canada does criminal record for simple possession of small amounts. not even honour its own? This leads me to this question. Why the rush? There are only 241 days to go until this arbitrary date that the Liberals selected. To summarize, the Liberals promised that they wanted to keep Provinces, municipalities, police forces, and our indigenous com- marijuana out of the hands of kids. They also promised that they munities have stated they are not ready to implement this legislation. wanted to keep profit out of the hands of organized crime. The government knows this; members have heard it in committee.

So many questions have been left unanswered. Will Canadians My speech ultimately has proven that the Liberal approach is who use marijuana be able to cross the border into the United States wrong. This bill would not accomplish what they are promising where marijuana is still illegal? No department has been able to Canadians. This is like a big bill of sale. The bill would actually answer this question, and Canadians deserve an answer before the place children further in harm's way by permitting possession for legislation is implemented. kids as young as 12. That is grade 6. Home grow ops will expose children living in a dwelling to dangerous living space and increase How will enforcement officers test for drug impairment on the the production of marijuana and diversion to organized crime. This roadside? Can these tests be constitutionally challenged? Is the approach will increase the rate of impaired driving. science valid? Canadians deserve an answer. What education programs are in place now to inform youth about the dangers and consequences of marijuana? If they are not in place The bill leaves so many questions unanswered, which has now, when will this education process begin? The health minister blindsided law enforcement and other levels of government. said today $43 million, but there is no timeline. What will happen to the current medical marijuana system and how will recreational sales impact medical marijuana pricing and The question is why the Liberals are force-feeding us this deeply distribution? flawed bill. The only answer I can come up with is that the government has no problem being deceitful to Canadians in order to Canadians deserve answers to these questions before the keep the Prime Minister's irrresponsible election promise, muddying legislation is passed. the water about the implications of full legalization under the bill. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15239

Government Orders Instead of blindly trying to keep campaign promises at the rotten piece of legislation. We are not going to let Canadians be sold expense of Canadians' health and safety, perhaps the Liberals should a bad bill of sale. It is a very deceitful way of putting this forward. refocus their attention on protecting kids and protecting the public, protecting our trade agreements, and not putting international Mr. (Peace River—Westlock, CPC): Madam relationships in jeopardy, particularly the one we have with the Speaker, we can look to other jurisdictions to see what has happened. United States. They have had no problem breaking other promises, Currently, in Canada, there are about 1,000 people a year who die whether it is the balanced budget, electoral reform, or openness and because of an impaired driving incident. When Colorado legalized transparency. marijuana, deaths due to impaired driving went up by 40%. In It is time the Liberals put the brakes on this legislation until the Canada, that would translate to about 400 deaths per year. science supports the ability to ensure the health and safety of Canadians, particularly our kids. Can the member comment on who will be to blame for these ● (1655) deaths after legalization? Mr. Mark Holland (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Mr. Colin Carrie: Madam Speaker, the sad part is that we are all Speaker, we know that many states in the United States have going to be blame. This is an issue about the health and safety of already legalized marijuana within their own jurisdictions. Again, I Canadians. If we look at the facts, we see there are no roadside tests, am going to come back to the point I made earlier, and maybe I will no tools that can actually test if somebody is impaired or not. We are come back to it a little more precisely. Over the preceding 10 years going to be relying on drug recognition experts. Earlier, my before we came into power, where there was an election fought on colleague said that these experts are well trained. However, we have this very issue, rates of cannabis use by young people continued to to send them to the States to be trained, and they are not going to be edge up higher every year. The reality for cannabis use is that it ready. We may need thousands of these police officers to be trained, exceeds 20%. The idea that suddenly people are going to start and it is going to take resources away from other things on the road. driving while high, as if it is not already happening, is to ignore a The entire system is not set up for this yet. The science is not there. very serious existing problem. That is why we are introducing This is something that is totally irresponsible. legislation to deal with the problem of those who would drive while high. I have to give credit to my NDP colleagues as well. They realize However, I would ask the member specifically this question. We that things have to be done, but not through this bill. This is a have the example of tobacco, where prevalence rates for tobacco are horrible bill. Canadians need to know they are being sold a bill here now half what they are for cannabis among the youngest cohort, but that is not going to do what the Liberal government is claiming, just they used to be incredibly high. Rates used to be over 50%. Through based on that irresponsible promise the Prime Minister came up with a process of legalizing and making sure we had control, we were during the last election campaign. This is not the solution. able to bring that number down below 10%. Does the member not think that the example of tobacco, how it was regulated and the denormalization campaigns used, is applicable here with cannabis? Mr. Brad Trost (Saskatoon—University, CPC): Madam Speak- er, I am going to enjoy getting involved in this debate, having ● (1700) listened today to many of the remarks that have been provided by my Mr. Colin Carrie: Madam Speaker, there were so many fallacies colleagues. I have listened with particular intent to what the Liberal in that statement. First of all, we cannot really compare tobacco to members have been saying and what their underlying argument is for marijuana. This is the bill of sale: the Liberals keep repeating their this legislation. The case they have been making in the House is that talking points. It is not me; it is the Canadian community health the legislation would lower usage, make it possible to make it safer, survey on mental health that said the total percentage of teens aged and provide more protection for young people, for people who are 15 to 17, the target group, went from 40% to 25% from 2002 to abusing, misusing, and getting involved in the marijuana drug scene. 2012. Let us take a look at it; maybe it was working.

We are not saying we do not have to do something, but we have to Having listened to that, I specifically tailored my remarks to deal responsible. This entire approach by the Liberals is an experiment. It with it, in particular looking at the jurisdictions throughout the world is hypothetical. They want to take all our kids and put them into a —Uruguay, Washington state, and particularly Colorado—that have system that no one else in the world has used before. What we are legalized this. I find it interesting that they have made arguments saying is let us take a breath and let us put the brakes on this about it becoming safer, that it would be safer with the legislation, legislation, instead of using closure so that we cannot even finish that there would be less usage, and that we would be able to bring debating it properly. I am talking to my municipality, and the police down the usage rates by young people. It is interesting that when I officers in it are not going to be ready. There is going to be horrible am out in the general public and people talk to who want to see the case law that is going to develop from this because the proper rules, legislation go through, they never talk about increased safety. They regulations, and testing are not going to be in place. argue for wanting to be able to use their joint recreationally without any hassle. The push from the general public, the people behind the My colleague and I agree on a lot of things in this House. Truly, scenes, is somewhat different from the argument that the government too many Canadian kids are smoking marijuana, but this bill is a is making today. 15240 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I will deal with the argument that the government is making a few weeks ago. For any members who are interested, I will try to today. The argument that, “I want to have my fun and I do not care have this posted on my website or on my Facebook page by Monday about the consequences” is not one that I am prepared to deal with or Tuesday of next week. today. There is a basic argument for dealing with that on its own. The argument I will deal with today is with the facts, and I will be using a The study pointed out that in 2006, Colorado was 14th among couple of studies in particular. young people for usage of marijuana in the whole United States of America. In 2015, it was number one. It went from someplace above The first study I would like to refer to was sponsored by France's average to high, to being the place where marijuana was most used. National Institute of Higher Security and Justice Studies. The In fact, Colorado currently has 55% higher than the national average institute hired a psychiatry professor at the University of Pittsburgh, marijuana, cannabis usage among young people. It found the same Dr. Erika Forbes, to look into marijuana usage around the world. The thing among adults. Colorado has about 124% higher usage rate of argument that the government is making is that, if we legalize marijuana in general than the national average across the United marijuana, we will in fact have less usage. We have very few States. jurisdictions around the world that have gone for complete legalization, but there are three: Uruguay, Washington, and Color- People who may be watching this might be thinking that they will ado. It has been noted that in each and every one of those three use marijuana, that this will not cause them a problem, that this is not jurisdictions, usage rates actually went up. In Washington and a stress for them. They may think their kids will not use it, or they Colorado, the study says, usage rates did not move up uniformly in hope they will not use it. However, let look at these statistics again. all age brackets and all demographics; they tended to move up more among adults than among young people. In Uruguay, the study found complete across-the-board increased usage of marijuana by Marijuana-related traffic deaths, when a driver was tested positive every age cohort that was measured, the whole spectrum. for marijuana, doubled from 55 deaths 2013 to 125 deaths in 2016. Marijuana-related traffic deaths increased 66% in the four year This is what we have. With what the Liberals are experimenting average, 2013 to 2016, since Colorado legalized it. During the same with in Canada, the experiment has been done in three jurisdictions period, all traffic deaths only increased 16%. and in each of these three times—from my perspective, not surprisingly—we have ended up with higher usage rates of When we take out the marijuana-related traffic deaths, the marijuana. That is what I am anticipating as we go forward. If we roadway is as safe or getting safer. However, marijuana is making legalize, as the other jurisdictions have, Canadians should not be it more dangerous to drive in the state of Colorado. surprised if we have higher usage rates. Youth usage has gone up in Colorado, and it was a high-usage On the question of whether I believe that will vary across the state already. We are not comparing someplace where there was country, absolutely. The way the situation is now in Canada, if we almost no marijuana. Colorado was in the top quarter, or third, of U. read police reports and study anything about arrest rates and charge S. usage among youth, and it continued to go up after the rates, we see that the usage rates in the Canadian public and the rates legalization. at which police charge and prosecutors prosecute vary dramatically across the country. Interestingly enough, according to one study I College age usage increased 16%. College-age students usage, read, the place in the country with the lowest use among major cities second in the United States usage, was in eighth position in 2005-06. was Saskatoon, where the police are also most likely to charge people; there is the most aggressive enforcement. Vancouver and Emergency department and hospitalization marijuana admissions Halifax were at the other end of the spectrum, both for youth who was up from 6,300 in 2011 to 6,700 in 2012, and to 11,400 in 2014, report usage and also for charge rates. There are different things that and was on track to blow past that number in 2015. may be at play, but the government needs to think about this. Where the law is more strictly enforced in Canada, marijuana is less likely to be used. That would fit with the information that we get from the In literally every measure we look at it is getting worse. Uruguay-Washington-Colorado studies. Therefore, I would urge the Colorado's health system is getting worse; its driving situation for government to look at this, because the very practical reality is that safety is getting worse; usage by young people is getting worse; in some places in Canada it is almost legalized now. That is how usage by adults, the entire population, is getting worse. slack the charge rate is. The government has also said that it something like what it did Another thing that was noted in particular in the study paid for by with tobacco. Passing this legislation is not that. In fact, we could do the French institute of higher security was that marijuana poisonings the same thing about making marijuana more socially unacceptable, have gone up in all of these jurisdictions. That is not something any pushing marijuana back in other ways, in the same way governments Canadian politician wants to see happen. That is a problem across have on tobacco over the years. We can do that right now. We do not the board. have to legalize to go in that direction. In fact, if the government dropped this bill and went in that direction, I think it would find ● (1705) widespread public support. As I was getting ready for this, I found a report produced in October of this year on the situation in Colorado since it legalized Marijuana exposure has gone up. There are still criminal issues marijuana. This is very fresh data. This report was produced literally and all sorts of problems going on in Colorado. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15241

Government Orders I want to point to two final things. The other week I was at a Colorado, and (b) there are some good examples we could follow to family funeral in Saskatchewan. My uncle had passed away. I was make things work. visiting with a relative, who is a member of the Edmonton city police force. I asked him how many Edmonton city police officers wanted Mr. Brad Trost: Madam Speaker, we can deal with marijuana the to have legalized marijuana. He said , “Us guys on the streets, same way as tobacco without legalizing it. absolutely none.” That tells us what the people on the front lines are thinking. In response to the hon. member, his statistics are wrong. He is citing statistics from only one year after legalization, when there was ● (1710) a very modest dip, but not the last three or four years when rates Finally, if we are to deal with drug problems in Canada, we have across the board went up. The other thing the hon. member did not to deal with them in a broad-based culture, not just in Parliament but note, and may not be aware of, is that Colorado had large-scale across the country. We need to do this not just now, but in perpetuity. commercialization due to incredible liberalization of the medical marijuana industry. If we look at when Colorado was essentially Mr. Robert Kitchen (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC): Madam similar to other states, when it had de facto commercialization to Speaker, my colleague talked about unintended consequences. I am when it had whole legalization, we see almost a straight line going interested to hear his comments on Canadians who go to the U.S. I up in usage rates. bring that up because one of my constituents, a good friend of mine, went to Las Vegas. I know he does not have anything to do with The hon. member is actually incorrect. I would urge him to table drugs or marijuana. He smelled something strange in his hotel room. the article in The Washington Post in the House. I will happily table When he went to the airport, the sniffer dogs found traces of my studies in the next few days. Mine is updated from October 2017, marijuana on him. He was pulled aside and embarrassed, while the the 127 page report. I will email it to the member next week. dogs went through his bags. He was being accused of something he did not do. Mr. (Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, CPC): My question, Madam Speaker, is about an aspect of Colorado policy, Could my hon. colleague comment on other actions that may which I think is very good and is not present in Bill C-45. In happen? Colorado, individual municipalities and counties can decide whether ● (1715) to allow marijuana sales. Some have allowed it; some have not. There is no availability of this kind of local option in Canada. Could Mr. Brad Trost: This is a perfect question, Madam Speaker. my hon. colleague comment on that distinction? When I talked to my family member on the Edmonton police force, he said that one of the strange things that politicians would not get Mr. Brad Trost: Madam Speaker, something like that would be was that marijuana was a drug that had a strong smell. Once it was useful, particularly as this issue was brought up to me by an legalized, drug dealers would have little pouches of pot on them, aboriginal chief from northern Saskatchewan, who said they had hoping the smell would cover up the other drugs they might be enough problems with alcohol and the legalization of marijuana dealing. He said that the legalization of marijuana would make it would cause more issues for them. He wishes he had the power to harder for him, as an Edmonton city police officer, to enforce actions deal with it in his communities. This is a disaster for many remote against other illegal drugs. communities that deal with severe social problems. These issues are going to continue to pop up. The government has Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC): Madam not thought this legislation through. Speaker, I rise to speak to the proposed legislation on marijuana. Mr. Mark Holland (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Madam This is nothing more than the Liberals raising taxes once again. I Speaker, I want to discuss some of the comments about about have been spending quite a while trying to figure out what drives the Colorado. The Washington Post recently contained an article by the Liberals. I have come to the conclusion that it is how to raise taxes Drug Policy Alliance. It said a couple of things. One was that the on all Canadians. statistics in Colorado of individuals who said that usage had increased were simply not true on a couple of bases: first, those This legislation makes no sense. There is no coherent message to numbers were already way up above the national average before it whatsoever. The Liberals say that they want to keep marijuana out legalization ever occurred; and second, the effect on teenagers was, of the hands of children and, at the same time, they will legalize it. If in fact, unchanged, that it had not come down and it had not gone up. we look at it through the lens of raising taxes, it starts to make some Traffic fatalities were the same, but arrests and police resources were sense. This bill is all about that. way down. The Liberals have this figured out that if they legalize marijuana, I hope the member would agree with me. What we did on tobacco there is perhaps a tax windfall, although not a great tax windfall. The with respect to investing in de-normalization, explaining to young Liberals do not go after the big fish. They go after people who have people the dangers of the drug, pulling it from the shade into the small tax credits, and things like that. open, making those types of measures and the success we saw with tobacco, mean we could have the kind of prevalence rates we enjoy I do not think this will raise a whole bunch of money for the with tobacco, which are under 10%. They could be lower, they could national coffers, but it will raise a little cash from legalizing be better. However, (a) we cannot misrepresent what happens in marijuana, and therefore taxing it. The bill is all about that. 15242 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders People may wonder why the Liberals need to raise taxes. They the price perfect, and we will see the black market disappear. I am need to raise them so they can give it to their friends around the not convinced of that at all. Therefore, I do not see that there would world. They have given nearly half a billion dollars to an be a great windfall. infrastructure bank in Asia. In turn, that bank will use some of that money to build pipelines in Asia. We cannot even get pipelines The Liberals do not have a particular philosophy on how they built in this country. However, we are giving money to infrastructure raise taxes. They just think they can raise taxes wherever they can banks across the world and they are building pipelines with that get it. We have seen this with the cancellation of the tax credit for money. folks with diabetes. Eighty per cent of the people who were formerly This Liberal government is completely out of touch with the approved for the type 1 diabetes tax credit have now been taken off needs of Canadians, and this bill is nothing more than that. that list. It was not a great deal of money, but it was for those particular individuals. We can see the Liberals are not worried about What else are the Liberals doing with this money? They are raising taxes on everyday Canadians. bailing out Bombardier. I sent out a ten percenter to my riding, asking if anybody was in favour of the Liberals bailing out When we look at legalizing marijuana in order to tax it, suddenly Bombardier. Believe it or not, nobody sent it back to me saying he or it all makes sense. This is not about legalizing marijuana, or keeping she was totally happy with the Bombardier bailout, that this was it out of the hands of kids. It is not about making our country a safer amazing work. place. This is about raising some tax dollars. As we look at it, we see Bombardier is being sold to Airbus, a company out of France. the legalizing of marijuana is going to have some very detrimental Will Bombardier repay the taxpayer? Will it make them whole? No. effects. Granted, we may raise some money. I will give them that, Do the Liberals have a balanced budget issue? Yes. How will they but we will see increased traffic fatalities. We have seen this in other raise the money? One of the ways they will raise it is through taxing jurisdictions that have brought this on. Colorado, for example, has marijuana. seen a 40% increase in traffic deaths in its jurisdiction since it legalized marijuana. In Canada, we have about 1,000 impaired As I said, this bill is nothing more than a way to raise some tax driving fatalities in the country every year. A 40% increase is another money. The government has been spending it on infrastructure banks 400 deaths. I do not know how we can justify legalizing marijuana in Asia and on Bombardier. when we know it is going to cause deaths across the country. When I questioned the innovation minister on why the taxpayer would not be made whole with the deal between Airbus and Not only that, we always get the comparisons with alcohol and Bombardier, he said that I did not stand up our aerospace industry. smoking. They say those things are legal, why can marijuana not be However, I do stand up for the aerospace industry in Canada and I legal. First, there is not really a direct connection with either of those am very proud of it. In fact, one of the greatest airplanes ever other products. Neither of those other products permanently alter produced in the world would be the Avro Arrow, and that came from one's mind. Marijuana does permanently alter one's mind. I speak at Canada. I am very proud of that fact. schools, and the marijuana issue comes up. I always say that that is the number one thing. If someone smokes marijuana, there is a What I am not proud of is the way the Liberals have treated the oil significant likelihood of them not graduating from high school; I am industry. The Liberals have never once stood up for the oil industry. not sure exactly what the number is. I tell them that all the time. They went to Calgary to announce an innovation cluster. We would have expected they had gone there to announce the innovation Also folks who smoke marijuana have double the rate of cluster for the oil industry or the energy sector, which is one of the psychosis. It doubles the rate of schizophrenia. Someone who is most innovative sectors in our economy, but no. It was for susceptible to schizophrenia and smokes marijuana is twice as agriculture. Agriculture in Calgary is completely out of touch. susceptible to schizophrenia. What else do the Liberals need the money for? Members may have seen a $5 million skating rink on the front lawn. A hockey rink I do not understand this at all. The Liberals say they want to keep or a skating rink is quintessential Canadian and I grant that. it out of the hands of children. To tell children that we are now However, I believe that within spitting distance of this very fancy legalizing it and then at the same time tell them we do not want them hockey rink being built on Parliament Hill is the longest skating rink to use it, those two messages cancel each other out or even in the whole world. It is called the canal. That is the kind of thing the encourage marijuana use. It has nothing to do with the age limits Liberals need to raise money for with the increase in taxes. they put on this stuff. I think that is left to the provinces, but they How do we know the Liberal government needs money so badly? have definitely not put in an age limit. We hear everyone saying after I do not think putting a tax on marijuana is going to raise a great deal 25 it may not affect your brain, but before 25, marijuana definitely of money, particularly because I do not think the method the affects one's brain in very detrimental ways. government is using to introduce it will stave off the black mark. I can come to no other conclusion than this particular bill to bring ● (1720) in legalization of marijuana has nothing to do with keeping our We already have a lot of contraband products when it comes to country safer, has nothing to do with keeping marijuana out of the cigarettes. I do not see the difference here. I am not sure that when hands of children, and has everything to do with raising a tiny we get the government involved in regulating the prices, it will get amount of taxes. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15243

Government Orders ● (1725) a whole want to see cannabis and marijuana dealt with in a very Mr. Chandra Arya (Nepean, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it was quite progressive fashion, and we have a bill that would really make a interesting to listen to my hon. friend on the other side. On one hand difference. he said this is not going to raise a lot of money, but on the other hand he talked about the Asian infrastructure bank, Bombardier, Airbus, In terms of the criminal element, and the number of young the oil industry, agriculture, and a hockey rink. He did not even people, this is good-news legislation. I would suggest to my mention some of the negative aspects of cannabis consumption. Conservative colleagues across the way that they might want to Does he think the option of not doing anything is the only option, reconsider their position on this proposed legislation. I believe like the Conservatives did in their 10 years? Does he not recognize society will be in a better place if we have a regime where there is that a judicious use of legislation and education is required to protect strong regulation and the ability to keep more cannabis and our youth from the negative aspects of cannabis consumption? I marijuana out of the hands of children. We know that, here in would like him to speak about that. Canada, we have the highest percentage per capita of children using ● (1730) cannabis of any country in the world. Mr. Arnold Viersen: Mr. Speaker, that is it precisely. Mr. Arnold Viersen: Mr. Speaker, what we have here is a bill that If we were going to build legislation to reduce the level of is nothing like what the Liberals ran on in the federal election. In consumption by youth, we could do just that. In fact, over the last 10 addition to that, the strong mandate that the member talked about is years, we had a successful track record of reducing the consumption 39% of Canadians in support. It is not the majority of Canadians who of marijuana by youth. For the age group of 15 to 25, the rate of use have supported them. If the member is so adamant about the went down from 34% to 24%. We had a system that was working. Liberals' position that they ran on in the election, they would have We were reducing the rate of consumption. come up with a much more coherent bill. Could we have done more? Definitely, and we could do more. I would be all in favour of having a national strategy for reducing The bill before us tries to say two opposite things at the same time. consumption of marijuana. However, I am not in favour of the bill I do not know what to say on it anymore. The entire point of my before us whatsoever. speech was that the bill is nothing more than wanting to raise taxes Mr. Scott Reid (Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, CPC): Mr. off the legalization of marijuana. When we look at it through that Speaker, one the goals of the bill, the government tells us, is to try lens, suddenly the bill might make a little sense. and keep marijuana out of the hands of young people. The Liberals also tell us that they want to keep marijuana sales out of the hands of organized crime. Mr. Harold Albrecht (Kitchener—Conestoga, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to Bill C-45. I had the chance to ask the justice minister that question. As someone who is not opposed to the legalization of marijuana, I did say, nevertheless, that the only way we can keep marijuana Before I start my comments on Bill C-45, let me take a minute to distribution out of the hands of organized crime is to undercut the reflect on the upcoming weekend and the remembrance services that price that organized crime is selling it at. If we do that, we would be many of us in this room will be attending this coming weekend, and lowering the price for all those who buy it, including young people. to thank our veterans for the freedoms that we enjoy. Last weekend, I However, if the government tries to make direct sales to young had the privilege of attending a number of remembrance services in people unlawful, presumably that would open up the space for New Dundee, New Hamburg, Linwood, and Elmira. This coming organized crime. weekend, I will be in New Hamburg, Waterloo, Kitchener, and Elmira again. Let us just to think of the sacrifice that our veterans I have not seen the Liberals square the circle on this particular have made, and thank our legions for the great work that they do in policy point, and I wonder if my colleague could shed some light on not only supporting our veterans but also in helping us never to this issue. forget. I want to highlight that before I get into my remarks on Bill Mr. Arnold Viersen: Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what the C-45. government is doing. Pardon the pun, it is sucking and blowing on this particular bill, because there is no way to square that circle. We There are a number of really important issues that are dealt with in cannot undercut the black market and keep it out of the hands of this chamber on a daily basis. Over the last number of weeks, we children at the same time. The government has no concept of how have discussed a number of them, from rising debt to taxation, economics work. Therefore, with the bill before us, it is “a pie in the supposedly fair taxation, the economy, the deficit that is growing sky, just trust us on this”, and that is exactly what the government is every day, and the amazing excessive interest we will be paying on asking us to do with the bill. Therefore, I will not be supporting it. that over the next four years of $33 billion per year. All of these Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the things are important. However, in relation to the topic before us Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): today, really they are of minor significance. This topic we are Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that the member has drawn the discussing today will have a life-changing impact not only on our conclusion that he will not support this proposed legislation. This is youth and our citizens but on the very nation of Canada. I think it is legislation that was campaigned on in the last federal election, and important that we think clearly and soberly about the changes we are the government got a very strong mandate. I think that Canadians as making, especially as it relates to three areas. 15244 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders I first want to refer to our youth. That has been referred to many does not want her friends to be derailed. This young person is my times today, the health, safety, and well-being of our children and our granddaughter who wrote this two years ago, in November 2015, grandchildren, the safety of all Canadians on the roads, and the when she was 15 years old. She wrote: social risks that are involved in our communities with complaints and issues that will arise between neighbours. Marijuana, the dangerous substance that damages our lungs, brain, educational However, let me first refer to our youth. value and social activity is the substance the government of Canada is trying to legalize. Claims say that legalization will erode the black market but in reality, In question period today, my colleague from Richmond— legalizing marijuana will give people easier access to the drug. Recently I heard the testimony of a man who at age 14 was heading to Toronto for 420 with one hundred Arthabaska, and I just happened to catch it, made this great dollars worth of Marijuana. The fact that ten years ago a 14 year old boy who had no statement that the decisions we make reveal the values we hold. How job and no car was able to get his hands on one hundred dollars worth of weed blows much do we, as members of Parliament, in this room value the youth my mind. Can you imagine how easy it would be for someone to get marijuana now, of Canada? That is a question that we need to ask. I believe youth are especially if it were to become legal? Easier access to Marijuana will have many negative effects for Canada such as major health damage, ruining our educational a sacred trust that every one of us in this room has an obligation to system, our workplace and our society. The future of Canada rests in the hands of our guard seriously. We cannot take this obligation lightly. generation, there is no way marijuana will be a positive tool in that regard.... The Liberals claim repeatedly that the purpose of this legislation is to protect our young people and to increase public safety. How can With long term and short term effects the list of things that marijuana does to we keep this drug out of the hands of our youth when we are actually damage your health is endless. Short term effects include impaired memory, impaired allowing four plants per household? How can we say we are keeping body movement, changes in mood, hallucinations, paranoia, difficulty thinking and problem solving. Along with temporary damage Marijuana proves to once again be a it out of the hands of our youth when we are allowing 12-year-olds dangerous substance having a long lasting effect on your brain and mental health. A to have up to five grams in their possession? We often hear of people study showed that people who started heavily smoking marijuana in their teens lost being polled about whether they favour the legalization of marijuana, an average of eight IQ points between ages of 13 and 38. Even after quitting as an and the polls are all over the place, but it is somewhere around 50:50 adult the lost mental abilities did not fully return. There are many different ways to consume Marijuana but no matter which way, it is harmful. Marijuana smoke or 60:40. However, I am convinced that if we were to give the details contains the same tar and chemicals that are found in tobacco smoke which will lead of what this bill entails with respect to the availability of four plants to the inflammation of bronchitis. The drug harms cells lining and respiratory tract per household and up to five grams for 12-year-olds, we would get a leading to precancerous changes that are associated with lung, head and neck cancer. much different answer. Marijuana also stimulates your heart rate and blood pressure which can increase the risk of heart attack among individuals. I have named only a few of the health risks that occur when marijuana is consumed however, I hope that this is enough to The Canadian Medical Association and the Canadian Psychiatric strongly discourage you from believing the legalization of medical marijuana will Association have both stated that Canadians who consume marijuana infact be a positive thing in any way shape or form. recreationally under the age of 25 have a higher risk of developing mental illness, such as depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. We can all probably tell some anecdotal stories of family She went on: members or neighbours who have been derailed by the early use of marijuana. The damage of marijuana does not end with your health, the drugs negative effect The Canadian Psychiatric Association says: leads into your educational life as well. A review of 48 different relevant studies all Regular cannabis use in youth and young adults can affect aspects of cognition... found that marijuana use is associated with reduced chances of graduating. A recent attention, memory, processing speed, visuospatial functioning and overall intelli- analysis of data from studies in Australia and New Zealand found that youth who gence. Worse performance is related to earlier adolescent onset of use. have used marijuana regularly were significantly less likely to finish highschool and obtain a degree than their non-using peers. Marijuana is encouraging lazy work I do not know how much earlier an onset one could get than habits and a 'don't care' attitude, leading students down the path of becoming a high school dropout. The National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA) reports that while offering this availability to a 12-year-old. Therefore, parents and under the influence of marijuana the still developing brain will have difficulty grandparents are very concerned about the direction in which this retaining memories, when related back to school this can seriously affect your bill is going. learning skills as a student. “Falling behind in school is par for the course when marijuana use is a factor. It's not an issue solely based on loss of memory; they also Dr. Diane Kelsall in the Canadian Medical Association Journal report that psychological skills are reduced among students as well, decreasing their ability to sustain their self-confidence and remain focused on achieving academic and wrote, “Most of us know a young person whose life was derailed other goals”—NIDA. Even though marijuana is an illegal drug it has not stopped because of marijuana use. Bill C-45 is unlikely to prevent such teens and students from buying and using the drug, what is to happen now if tragedies from occurring—and, conversely, may make them more marijuana becomes legal? By legalizing this drug we are practically encouraging frequent.” students to go out and get high, ruining their high school career and affecting whatever may lay beyond that.... There are far too many young people who have already been derailed. These are not just opinions, these are medical and Believe me when I say that marijuana not only negatively affects your health, psychiatric experts, and it is important that we listen to them. your education but your social and work life as well. Studies show specific links ● (1735) between the use of marijuana and the workplace such as increased risk of injuries and accidents. One study among postal workers found that employees who tested positive I want to use the bulk of my time today to listen to one of the for marijuana on a urine drug test had 55 percent more industrial accidents, 85 youth of Canada, who is concerned that this legislation and the percent more injuries, and 75 percent greater absence compared with those who tested negative for marijuana. After all of the papers you wrote, tests you studied for actions we approve here in this House would, or could, in fact derail and emotional trials you went through over the minimum of 16 years of schooling, is young people. She does not want to be one of those derailed, and she it really worth it to throw that all away for the temporary high of marijuana? November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15245

Government Orders ....Before make the decision to legalize this dangerous substance lets first think of about this legislation. I have heard the same thing. My youth group all of the health risks caused by this drug, the negative effect that it would have on also told me that this is a bad idea. our educational system and how different and harmful the workplace and our economy would be with marijuana easily accessible and legal. I would like him to address two important things that the Liberals I have so much more to share. keep repeating over and over again that I find very misleading. They ● (1740) have said the reason they are doing this is to keep it out of the hands of kids and organized crime. Everyone in the House would agree that Let me finish with some comments by Dr. Diane Kelsall, director that is a great thing to do, but this legislation would not do it. The of the Canadian Medical Association, in the Canadian Medical Liberals are trying to push a message out, but I find it is really Association Journal. She says, “If Parliament truly cares about the misleading and, in a way, very deceitful. public health and safety of Canadians, especially our youth, this bill will not pass.” Could my colleague please address why the bill would not keep it out of the hands of kids and not keep the profits out of the hands of I hope my colleagues will listen. organized crime? We know it will not do that. ● (1745) Mr. Harold Albrecht: Mr. Speaker, the deceitful aspect of the bill Mr. Bill Blair (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of is very similar to what the Liberals are doing on the taxation front. Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of They say they are going to tax the wealthy and put those dollars into Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I believe my colleague from Kitchener the hands of the middle class, when in fact in the last couple of —Conestoga is sincerely concerned and I want to address some of weeks we have seen exactly the opposite. Those who are wealthy those concerns so I might perhaps ease his mind. and well-connected have been left totally alone, with not a cent My colleague has said, as did many of his colleagues earlier, that increase in their taxation, while those in the middle class who are this legislation authorizes 12-year-olds to possess cannabis. That in working hard, including farmers and small business owners, are fact is misleading, and it is really important for every member of the being accused by the Liberals as tax cheats. House to understand exactly how this law will be applied. To imply that this legislation would keep drugs out of the hands of One of the harms that we are attempting to reduce in this youth is certainly not accurate when we see that kids aged 12 to 18 legislation is the criminalization of kids. We do not believe the best will be able to have five grams in their possession. This is not the way to protect our kids is to put them in jail, so under this legislation way to go. possession of over five grams will remain a criminal offence, but for amounts less than that, young persons aged 12 to the age of majority Mr. Chandra Arya (Nepean, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I heard the will be subject to an absolute prohibition on the possession, member mention the negative aspects of cannabis consumption, but purchase, and consumption of this substance under provincial he did not mention any solution. He did not offer anything. regulation. The fact is that five or ten years ago when his party was in We have worked with all of the provinces, and those who have government, it did nothing. He would know their solution was often already announced their regulatory regimes have made it very clear nothing. At least our government is taking steps to legislate and to that they will enforce a prohibition. A young person between the invest in education. We are investing $46 million in public education ages of 12 and 18 or 19, depending on the provincial decision on and awareness. We are also investing $274 million to support law what the age would be, would be subject to an absolute prohibition enforcement and border officials. enforceable by a provincial offences ticket. The police could seize the drug. The police can charge the youth, not under the criminal I request the member to address these issues also. law, but under a provincial statute. That is precisely how we deal ● (1750) with alcohol in each of our provinces and territories. This actually reduces a significant harm. Mr. Harold Albrecht: Mr. Speaker, the Conservative position is not to go down this very dangerous road. We have heard many times I hope this information might assist the member by addressing the today about the Colorado experiment and what that state is doing. I concerns he has raised. do not have the very latest report, but I do have this one dated Mr. Harold Albrecht: Mr. Speaker, the member said anything September 2016 showing some of the negative impacts. Marijuana- above five grams would be a criminal offence. The bill does not related traffic deaths have increased 48% in over three years on indicate that anything above five grams for those 18-years-old and average, from 2103 to 2015. Before that period, the increase was beyond would not be a criminal offence. My concern remains. only 11%.

When we give a message to youth aged 12 to 18 there will be no I would ask for unanimous consent to table this document or, prohibition for being in possession of up to five grams of marijuana, better yet, the updated one from 2017 to allow my Liberal colleagues and in addition give homeowners the ability to grow up to four to see the negative results in jurisdictions that have authorized the plants within each household, we have a recipe for easy access for recreational use of marijuana. The statistics are alarming. For my youth, and not one that would keep this drug out of their hands. colleagues not even to want to look at this, I find unconscionable. Mr. Colin Carrie (Oshawa, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I want to thank We have an obligation in the House to stand up for the protection of my colleague for sharing what young people are actually saying the youth of our country, and I hope we will do that. 15246 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Government Orders The Deputy Speaker: Just to be clear, is the hon. member for think that this is not going to impact them in any way, but it will, Kitchener—Conestoga requesting unanimous consent to table this because they are already at risk. They are vulnerable, and they are an report? easy target for people who are immoral and dishonest and will teach Mr. Harold Albrecht: Absolutely. them behaviours that are not right and will draw them into a life of crime. There is also the opportunity to simply sell it personally and The Deputy Speaker: Does the hon. member have the unanimous make money on something the government is saying they can have consent of the House to table this document? in their possession. Finally, there is the potential for them to say that Some hon. members: Agreed. they can have this, so why not just try it. Some hon. members: No. Mrs. (Yorkton—Melville, CPC): Mr. Speak- ● (1755) er, I am very pleased today to speak in the House in regard to Bill C-45, an act respecting cannabis and to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other acts. All these reasons totally negate this irrational argument that somehow, by legalizing this and making it available to children aged I am trying to think of an appropriate word to use that the people 12 to 18, it would restrict access. I have never heard a more across the aisle would possibly accept and understand. The bill is disjointed, inaccurate, and inconceivable argument put forward. The harmful to young people. It is harmful to our society. It is poorly government also said that it wants to protect young people from the thought out. It is extremely rushed, and as a result, it is very inducement to use. Well, I have already said that just by putting the dangerous legislation for us to be putting forward in Canada. bill forward in this way, it is actually encouraging young people to The Liberals claim that it will protect the health of young persons. consider using. That is one of their virtuous goals in putting this forward. Medical professionals have talked about mental health issues, including addiction, and the impact on the developing brain. Data shows that Another member on the other side of the House came back with 30% to 40% of young people under the age of 25 who use cannabis the argument, on the question of youth having it in their possession, will develop psychotic disorders, depression, or anxiety disorders. that it is the parents' responsibility. It is just like any other thing in This is information from professionals, as my colleague was trying the house they might have. The parents are responsible. On one to present to the House to enable the Liberal Party to read and level, I totally agree that parents are and should be responsible, possibly discern that there are dangers in what they are suggesting above all other influences, for determining what direction their they legalize in Canada. children should be guided. Parental rights, responsibilities, and privileges in raising children, which are our most precious and The Liberals also talk about restricting access by young people. I valuable resource as a nation, need to be protected. They actually have never heard a more confusing argument: trying to restrict the need to be encouraged by government. Government should be use of a dangerous substance by legalizing it and actually making it supporting Canadian families through legislation. However, here it is more available to young people. We know that the bill would allow working in opposition and challenging parents by telling teenagers young people between the ages of 12 and 18 to possess five grams at between the ages of 12 and 18 that it is okay, and legal, to have five any one time. This would not say to young people that this is not grams of marijuana on their person. something they should do. It would say it is okay for them to have this. Maybe it is because they do not want them to have a criminal record. It is irrational to say we do not want them to have a criminal record, so they can take and hold this much. It is not right, because it I have worked a lot with teenagers, and I actually survived raising would encourage them to consider this. three amazing young adults myself. I have to tell members that at that point in life, the right thing for them to be doing is challenging In grade seven, I was part of a debate team. Our class was given things around them and trying to determine where their values are in this topic: grade seven students are juvenile and immature. Of relation to their parents and in what direction they are going to go. course, we wanted to debate against that, because we were in grade seven, and we were not juvenile and not immature. My teacher told us to debate the other side, and somehow he convinced us to do that. When I tell my children that something is not right, and it is We won that debate, because grade seven students are juvenile and something they are thinking about, but their government turns immature. They are not grown up yet. They are formulating what around and tells them that it is okay and that it is legal, that is not their values are, and here we are with a government that is saying to supporting parents. The government is pushing this responsibility on them to go ahead and have five grams in their possession at any one them, just like it is pushing the responsibility on provinces and time. It does not take long to realize that it would be a risk to them on municipalities. The Liberals created the bill because they made an many levels, besides their trying to process it with their own moral election promise, and they are having trouble finding one they can values. They could be coerced to carry it for others, possibly parents, keep, so this is the one they will pull it off on. or possibly older teens in the family who want more available. They could carry it for their siblings or their parents or a friend. These young people also could be very much drawn into the black This is entirely wrong. If youth should not use it, then they should market to be handlers. I think especially of youth at risk. We like to not carry it. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15247

Private Members' Business

The government also uses the argument that it is going to reduce That, in the opinion of the House, within twelve months of the adoption of this illicit activities in relation to cannabis. In other words, it will motion: (a) the government should follow the example of other Canadian police somehow shut down the black market with the legal use of services and act to save hundreds of lives each year by equipping all RCMP vehicles marijuana. We know how well that is working with contraband with automated external defibrillators (AEDs); and (b) the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security should undertake a study to determine the cigarettes. availability of AEDs in first responder vehicles across Canada and make recommendations to the House in that regard while respecting the jurisdiction of I know from conversations with people I have helped in 10-step other levels of government. programs that there are rehab centres where black market drug dealers go to get healed. While there, they develop relationships with He said: Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleagues who are here in the people they then meet on the outside, and they help them to become House. part of the process. This is not going to shut down the black market. It is money driven, it is greed driven, and it has nothing to do with It may not be common practice, but I want to dedicate this speech caring for our society. The government is playing into its hands. to a friend of mine, Stéphane Campagna, who is alive today because Canadians are very concerned all over this country. They are three of his friends reacted quickly and used a cardiac defibrillator to concerned about the workplace, law enforcement people, and our save his life during a hockey game. It is not every day that we have children, and they do not know what to do. They are throwing up the opportunity to move a motion in the House of Commons, let their hands and asking how the government can do this. alone one that can save lives. It is therefore with heartfelt emotion and pride that I rise to speak today on this fundamental and vital Well, I have a few words I want to say to Canadians. I am going issue. to post it, actually. I will tell them that they have been amazing on so many fronts in Our job as parliamentarians and elected officials is vitally dealing with issues this government has brought forward over the important at times like these. If the House votes in favour of this last two years, and they have made a difference. Opposition parties motion, all members will be able to proudly say that their work have a role to play, but we are here to represent Canadians, and as a actually helped to save lives. It is very moving to think that we can result of their work and their telling this government what they will have such a major impact on the lives of our constituents. It is and will not accept, electoral reform is not on the table. They did that inspiring to know that our political involvement can lead to such with their advocacy. tangible achievements. With that in mind, I invite all my colleagues to set partisanship aside and vote in favour of this motion. Punitive and unfair tax increases on the middle class, small and medium businesses, and farmers are not going to take place the way This is definitely something to think about. Unfortunately, many they would have if the Liberals had just been allowed to go ahead of us have a friend, colleague, or even family member who has gone with their policies. Canadians made the difference. into cardiac arrest. There are approximately 40,000 sudden cardiac They shut down the removal of section 176 and are protecting the arrests in Canada each year. That is one every 12 minutes. That right to freedom of religion in this country. They caused the Surgeon means that, during my speech, two Canadians will go into cardiac General to relegate the dangerous anti-malaria drug mefloquine to a arrest. It is at times like those that every second counts. drug of last resort, after decades of causing harm to our servicemen and women. For every minute that goes by, the chances of survival for a person who is in cardiac arrest drop by 7% to 10%. The problem is that this ● (1800) sort of thing almost never happens in a hospital. Most often, it Canadians can do this. They can make a difference. I know that happens at home, far from a cardiac defibrillator. they see this law as irrational, dangerous, and rushed, everything that is not good. Therefore, I encourage them to do what they have done. Unfortunately, that is the case for Michel Picard, a resident of I know they are exhausted. They should keep going. Victoriaville. On December 30, 2016, at his home on Allard Road, The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Yorkton—Melville the street next to where I live, while celebrating the holidays with his will have five minutes for questions and comments on her remarks family, he collapsed without warning. Michel Picard suffered a life- when the House next takes up the motion before the House. threatening arrhythmia and someone called 911 immediately. Before the paramedics arrived, Mr. Picard's son-in-law, Steve Houle, It being 6:02 p.m., the House will now proceed to the courageously administered first aid by starting CPR. consideration of private members' business, as listed on today's Order Paper. Six minutes later, two paramedics from the Bois-Francs emergency hospital arrived. Fortunately, they had a defibrillator in their vehicle. It took three shocks for Mr. Picard to regain PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS consciousness. Today, he has no remaining effects from his accident, which is nothing short of miraculous. This story that occurred in my [Translation] region is a testament to the courage of Mr. Picard's loved ones, who acted quickly and did exactly what needed to be done, but also AUTOMATED EXTERNAL DEFIBRILLATORS illustrates how important it is for first responders to have a Mr. Alain Rayes (Richmond—Arthabaska, CPC) moved: defibrillator in their vehicle. 15248 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Private Members' Business When the heart stops beating, as the seconds and minutes tick by, proactive even before the municipality had decided to take action. the patient has no blood or oxygen circulating. Under such Thanks to this tool and the level-headedness of Marcel Duquette, conditions, the brain cannot survive for long. As Alain Vadebon- Jean-François Gagné, and Francis Garneau, Mr. Campagna was coeur, chief of the emergency department at the Montreal Heart revived. The three men who work at Urgence Bois-Francs quickly Institute, explains, the brain's very fragile cells need glucose and helped him and were able to save his life because there was a oxygen, without which brain death is irreversible. In most cases, defibrillator on site. within 10 minutes of sudden death by cardiac arrest, it is simply too late. However, a rapidly administered defibrillator shock can stop the This cannot be overemphasized. This example once again shows arrhythmia and get the heart pumping normally. That is what saved how vitally important this device is. It is simple to use. People do not Mr. Picard and thousands of other Canadians. A defibrillator is the need training to use it, and like Marcel Duquette said, the more only way to get the heart going again. Unfortunately, chances of defibrillators there are, the more people can work together to save survival when someone arrives in the emergency room with no pulse lives. He was one of the three paramedics who saved Stéphane are practically nil. Campagna's life. The survival rate of victims of cardiac arrest outside a hospital is under 5%. Defibrillators improve the patient's chance of survival by That is the mandate that I gave myself when I was mayor. Now 75%. This is where we, as parliamentarians, can make a difference. Victoriaville and the Arthabaska RCM are among the most proactive This is where we have the power to take action, to prevent death, to municipalities in this regard. It is therefore only natural for me to heal people, and to save lives. continue with this personal commitment and share this initiative that ● (1805) I care about with my colleagues. By investing in prevention, we could increase the chances of survival for victims of cardiac arrest who are not in a hospital or in a public place where a defibrillator is available. As a federal MP, I would like to pursue this mission to help Canadians across the country and create more opportunities to do With cardiac arrests, time is of the essence. Each minute, each good and save lives. I hope I can count on the support of MPs in second of unconsciousness impacts the chances of survival. In that meeting this challenge. I therefore propose that we give the context, if all emergency vehicles were equipped with a defibrillator, government the mandate to look at what is being done elsewhere the response time would clearly be shorter, and lives would be saved. in the country. I also propose that we give the Standing Committee We know that dozens of police departments in Canada already use on Public Safety and National Security the responsibility of defibrillators, but gaps remain in the coverage. If all patrol vehicles undertaking a study in order to make recommendations to the were equipped with defibrillators, hundreds of lives would be saved House on this issue. In short, I am proposing to my colleagues that each year. This would represent a meaningful, long term investment, we legislate so that millions of Canadians know that they have and it would cost a pittance given the lives we could save. access to this potentially life-changing technology in case of an emergency, should misfortune strike in a place where such In that regard, there is much hope. Results reported by cities, equipment is available. regional county municipalities and provinces who are at the forefront in this domain are very encouraging. First responders who have access to a defibrillator say they observe remarkable results. ● (1810) The problem is that if some regions are very much at the forefront, others have not yet passed legislation. The coverage is incomplete and yet, no matter where they decided to live and raise their families, In fact, I challenge my colleagues to act together to save hundreds every Canadian should have the comfort of knowing that first of lives and make thousands of miracles. I urge the House to adopt responders have access to a defibrillator in case of emergency. the following important motion: This issue is quite important to me. In a previous life, I was the mayor of Victoriaville. My team and I equipped all the vehicles of That, in the opinion of the House, within twelve months of the adoption of this motion: (a) the government should follow the example of other Canadian police first responders with defibrillators. We made sure that municipal services and act to save hundreds of lives each year by equipping all RCMP vehicles buildings, arenas, or sports facilities, for example, were equipped with automated external defibrillators (AEDs); and (b) the Standing Committee on with a defibrillator in order to respond quickly to an emergency. Public Safety and National Security should undertake a study to determine the availability of AEDs in first responder vehicles across Canada and make Businesses and institutions also mobilized to equip their buildings. recommendations to the House in that regard while respecting the jurisdiction of The Sûreté du Québec decided to launch a pilot project to put other levels of government [municipal, provincial, or federal]. defibrillators in all its vehicles. Defibrillators are also found at firehalls and are used by our response system. That is what saved the life of Stéphane Campagna. While playing hockey with his friends in If we all support this motion together, this would help save lives Victoriaville, he suffered cardiac arrest at the arena. The arena had a and give first responders the tools they need. All it takes is political defibrillator, which was donated by business people who had been courage. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15249

Private Members' Business In closing, I want to thank all the stakeholders and instigators who I note we are under questions and comments, hon. parliamentary did not wait for legislation or even a budget before taking action. I secretary. We are about two minutes in. We usually give a little bit of hope that we can all work together, as members of the House of latitude, but if he could get to his question, we will carry on. Commons, to ensure that every emergency vehicle is equipped with a defibrillator. Imagine the number of lives that could be saved if all Mr. Mark Holland: Mr. Speaker, I apologize for the long our ambulances, all our fire trucks, all police cruisers, and all first preamble. I included it because, before I got into my more responders in our municipalities were equipped with defibrillators, in generalized comments, I wanted to express how important this issue addition to our arenas, athletic centres, schools, and commercial is. Given that, how does the member believe we can work with other buildings. Businesses could also have them in their office buildings, jurisdictions to be able to get at the challenges of being able to see stores, and retail spaces. Imagine the number of families that would these devices not only being present but also being used by the be happier. general population? [Translation] I sincerely hope that this motion is adopted. I will work very hard on it, in the hope of winning the support of my colleagues across Mr. Alain Rayes: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the parliamentary party lines. secretary for sharing his experience. My heart goes out to him. As I said, I myself went through a similar experience with a friend, and to ● (1815) make matters worse, the way I found out was by seeing it on the [English] news. Mr. Mark Holland (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. The first thing we could do, following the decision that will be Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Motion No. 124, put forward by made in this House by all the members, would be to set an example. the hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska. It calls on the When I was mayor, I chose not to wait to be asked. I used the power government to equip RCMP vehicles with automated external at my disposal to persuade other elected officials to provide the defibrillators, or AEDs. It also calls upon the Standing Committee on necessary funding. Public Safety and National Security to conduct a study to determine the availability of AEDs in first responders' vehicles across Canada Since this is a motion, I do not have the financial power to do that and make recommendations to the House in that regard, while in this case. I think that if we move in this direction, we will be respecting the jurisdiction of other levels of government. sending a positive sign. I had the opportunity of being the executive director of the Heart If we all wanted to, we could set an example with the RCMP and and Stroke Foundation, and I want to share the member's enthusiasm educate all levels of government, after the committee conducts its for the use of AEDs in our communities. There is no doubt that these study. I do not want to step on the toes of other jurisdictions. devices save lives. If we were to witness a cardiac event occur right now and did nothing, the chance of that life being saved is about 5%. However, by conducting that study and putting in the work, we If CPR is utilized in the first couple of minutes, that chance goes up may learn about suitable programs, as it happened in the past with to about 25%. When an AED is used within the first three minutes, it the installation of AEDs in arenas. is north of 75%. These numbers are staggering when we start applying them on a nationwide basis. I should mention that many municipalities have first responder training programs. People expect AEDs to come in an ambulance, Clearly, we need to be doing a much better job. On average, our because they almost all have one. However, sometimes the first unit ambient save rate is only at about 7%. When we look at King to arrive at the scene of an accident is a police car, or even a fire County, a jurisdiction in the United States that includes Seattle, it truck, if it is closer. often gets as high as 16%. If we could just replicate that save rate across Canada, it would mean three jumbo jets filled with people not The simple answer to the question is that it is the leadership of crashing, burning, and dying every single year. this Parliament, by which I mean Parliament as a whole, not just the government, that will make it possible for us to set an example. For me, I particularly want to thank the member because this issue ● (1820) hit home personally. My partner's father had a heart attack, where an AED, quick thinking, and CPR played a major role in his survival. Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Mr. Too sadly, we hear of these cases all over the place. Most sadly, we Speaker, actually, this is more of a comment. hear it in the case when an AED is not available and, unfortunately, a life is unnecessarily lost. I wanted to tell my colleague how useful this can be in rural regions. I am an intensive care nurse in the ER. That is my specialty. There is strong and compelling evidence— We often have just two ambulances. When one ambulance is away Mr. Arnold Viersen: Is this questions and comments, or is this a transferring a patient, we may find ourselves without an available speech? ambulance. Sometimes, because of circumstances beyond our control, police officers have brought patients to me in the ER The Deputy Speaker: I was just about to interrupt. I appreciate because we simply did not have an ambulance available to respond. the intervention on the part of the hon. member for Peace River— Westlock. I just wanted to say how useful this would be for rural Canada. 15250 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Private Members' Business Mr. Alain Rayes: Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her issues that the committee could look at, and that we encourage it to comment. look at, when considering the proposal to equip RCMP vehicles with AEDs. For one thing, as with other medical equipment, provinces She is absolutely right. To estimate the chances of survival for and territories are responsible for legislating and regulating public someone having a heart attack, we can take a map of each city, put a access programs to AEDs, including in public areas and workplaces. dot in the centre, and draw a circle around it. The farther one is from For example, some provinces such as British Columbia have a hospital or an ambulance station, the lower one's chance of guidelines recommending that public AED access programs should survival. be overseen by physicians. It is therefore obvious that if we have more devices and put them in every emergency vehicle, we will have not only two ambulances able to respond, but also every firefighter and police officer. If municipalities decide to participate, city halls near towns and more Further, there is no consistent legislative or regulatory framework rural areas can have the devices too. governing access to or use of AEDs. It is very much viewed as a public or occupational health and safety issue left to local Unfortunately, people think these devices are very expensive, but organizations, governments, and employers. It is also important to they are not that expensive, especially not compared to the value of a understand that this proposal would have important provincial, person's life to that person's family. territorial, and municipal implications. As members will know, the RCMP is the police service provider for the territories and every I hope this bill will make a big difference for people. We have an province except Ontario and Quebec, and the vast majority of RCMP incredible opportunity here in the House of Commons to take non- vehicles are used for contract policing services. partisan action that will do so much to help families across Canada. [English] Mr. Mark Holland (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Under the police services agreements, policing services provided Speaker, we have the opportunity to debate a great number of by the RCMP are cost shared with contract jurisdictions. This issues in this House on which there is some division, and includes all operating and maintenance costs, such as salaries and occasionally some sparks, but this is an area where, particularly on equipment purchases. The up-front costs of buying AEDs, as well as the overarching principle, there really needs to be a consensus. I say the ongoing maintenance required to keep them in good working this because the science is very clear that when we put AEDs in order, would therefore need to be supported by contract jurisdictions. communities, when we ensure that people are CPR trained, and Therefore, as members can see, there are jurisdictional issues that ensure that people know how to use AEDs, it saves lives. need to be looked at with respect to this proposal. Unfortunately, we also know that just calling paramedics alone is not enough. When we pick up the phone and call paramedics, they simply cannot get to the scene of a cardiac event fast enough to save We are very supportive of the second part of the motion, which a life, which means that we need this type of initiative that would calls on the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National ensure that all front-line individuals who keep our community safe Security to examine the availability of AEDs in first-responder are CPR trained, know where AEDs are, and perhaps, as the motion vehicles across Canada. Such a study would help us get a complete indicates, have access to AEDs within their vehicles. We need and up-to-date picture regarding the effectiveness of equipping civilians, people who are not on the front lines, to be engaged in this police vehicles with AEDs. It could examine questions like how battle as well, because when a family member goes down, people often AEDs installed in police cruisers have been used to respond to have to ask themselves if they know what to do. Do they know CPR, cardiac arrests. It would also help to ensure that any new policies, which is very simple but essential skill. Do they know where the standards, or deployments of new equipment to front-line responder nearest automated external defibrillator, AED, is? Too often the vehicles, including those of the RCMP, would be based on evidence answer is no. about what works best from a health and public safety perspective. It would also be an opportunity to hear from provincial, territorial, and In workplaces and homes, folks do not know what to do, despite municipal partners to ensure that any new Canada-wide approach the fact that successive governments, both Conservative federally takes their needs and views into account. and the Liberal government in Ontario, have gone to great lengths to place AEDs throughout our communities. It certainly makes a great deal of sense from a public safety perspective to ensure that AEDs are in public places where cardiac arrests are mostly likely occur. ● (1825) The rest of my comments concern some of the issues that relate specifically to the motion, issues that we can think about as the motion moves forward. Again, I speak from the lens of being generally supportive of it. In conclusion, we support Motion No. 124 in principle. We think the call for study is important, that the results should inform further We certainly know that the motion calls for the committee to study measures, and that the policies and expenditures put forward do meet the availability of AEDs. In this regard, there are certain important the public safety objectives we set forth. That is the point here. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15251

Private Members' Business We are all in agreement that any measure likely to help more With respect to automated external defibrillators, it is important Canadians survive cardiac arrest and save lives is very much worth that they be available, but we must also discuss training for users. pursuing. In that vein, I want to thank the hon. member opposite for We must ensure that people know how to use them and where they bringing forward this motion. I think it is incredibly important, not are located. That makes a big difference because if the person has to only from my perspective in government but also personally. I look look for the defibrillator, it will take longer. Members cannot answer forward to working on it with him. me because this is not a question and comment period, but I am curious about how many people know exactly where the automated [Translation] external defibrillator is located in the Parliament buildings. Does Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Mr. anyone here know? I am not so sure. Speaker, it really is a pleasure for me to speak to a motion like this one, because this was part of my daily life for many years for one simple reason: I am a nurse who worked primarily in acute and It is also very important for a communications plan to be put in emergency care in a small, rural hospital. Every day, we had to face place when automated external defibrillators are purchased so that the reality that someone could suffer a cardiac arrest at any time, and everyone in the community can locate them quickly. Sometimes we sometimes they were 45 minutes away from the hospital. There are believe that we have to know CPR and be very knowledgeable to only two ambulances serving the entire RCM, which is about 100 save a life. kilometres across. It can sometimes take a very long time even for emergency responders to arrive. ● (1830) Defibrillation does not really happen the way it looks in the movies, where the patient arrives at the hospital, we put the paddles on him and defibrillation occurs. For defibrillation to work, electrical Just by knowing where an AED is located, people can help save a currents still have to be going through the heart. If the patient life by giving the device to someone who knows how to use it in flatlines, it is too late; nothing can be done and defibrillation will not under a minute. When a heart attack happens, the person who knows work. That is why, if we want defibrillation to be effective, it must how to use the AED is often also the one who administers first aid to happen quickly, before the electrical currents in the heart stop the victim. The first aider will start performing CPR and other following cardiac arrest. techniques. If this person also has to go looking for an AED, valuable time will be lost. Making sure everyone knows where these It is good to have automated external defibrillators that are easy to devices are located can be highly beneficial. use, not like those in hospitals that require training. These AEDS will save lives because people do not need much training to be able to use them effectively to reanimate someone. They will also help A few years ago, there was a private foundation that had a prevent the brain damage that can occur due to a lack of oxygen, as program to help small communities buy AEDs. I passed on the well as the harmful consequences that go along with that. The more information to small communities in my riding, and two AEDs were quickly the defibrillator is used, the greater the chances of obtained through this program. I think private foundations that offer reanimation and the less severe the after-effects of the cardiac arrest AEDs or help small municipalities buy them are extremely and lack of oxygen. important. However, I also think that we need to play a major role in this issue. It is important to respect the jurisdictions of the This will have an impact on the number of lives saved and will provinces and other governments, but we can still play a leadership reduce the severity of the consequences of a cardiac arrest. That is role, especially when we consider that lives are at stake and that this extremely important. is a relatively simple thing to do. We can find solutions to make these devices more widely available. The motion refers to RCMP vehicles. Given that the indigenous police fall under our jurisdiction, I believe that we should also equip all of their vehicles with automated external defibrillators, I cannot overstate how much this would change things in rural particularly when we consider the fact that indigenous communities communities like mine. I live in a rather remote area. When I give are often located in areas that are far from hospitals. For example, in people my address they often get it wrong and never find their way. my riding, the Long Point First Nation community is about In more urgent situations, it might take longer to find my house. 45 minutes from the hospital, when a person is driving fast. When However, the local first responders know the area like the back of weather conditions are not ideal, if there is a snowstorm, for their hand and do not need an address. Just name the woman who example, it can easily take an hour and a half to get there. needs help and they will get there in no time. If they are equipped with this device it might make the difference between hugging a I am certain that my colleague will agree with me that this should friend and going to a funeral. be extended to all emergency vehicles used by indigenous police and in all indigenous community gathering places, even though they are not mentioned in the motion. We could ensure that arenas, sports I sincerely hope that, in studying my colleague's motion, people facilities, and all indigenous communities are also equipped with will be able to set partisanship aside entirely. The motion deserves to these defibrillators. I hope that the message will be passed on to the be studied in committee because it can help us improve outcomes for Minister of Indigenous Services so she can establish a strategy in Canadians. I also think that knowing that there can be a quick that regard. response will change a lot of things when it comes to people's health. 15252 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Private Members' Business Unfortunately, heart attacks rarely occur in ideal circumstances. ...every patient with a witnessed ventricular fibrillation cardiac arrest should Most of the time, things do not go so well. I have seen cases where it survive. If the patient does not survive, the goal is to determine why. happened to people who were hunting in the deep woods. That is not an ideal situation. Over the course of my career, only once have I witnessed someone having a heart attack right in the middle of triage. Lucky thing that happened in the ER. In real life, heart attacks do not happen in the ER. They happen in places where, most of the The paper said “every patient”. In principle, there should be a time, having access to an AED can change things for the better. 100% save rate. As I say, it is all about the speed with which one is able to intervene, and to make that point, I want to call upon and The majority of ambulances are now equipped with these devices, describe the American Heart Association's chain of survival but considering the allocation of ambulance services in many rural metaphor. The member for Ajax who was involved in the Canadian communities, where few ambulances are available and wait times heart association would be very familiar with this indeed. can be long in some cases, emergency response vehicles absolutely need to be equipped with these devices. We must also ensure that the first responders are properly trained in their use. We can do a lot for people and I hope that we will move forward because it is a matter of life or death for Canadians. I hope that The American Heart Association's chain of survival metaphor lists people will have a heart. the key ingredients for success: one, rapid access, calling 911 immediately; two, rapid cardiopulmonary resuscitation or CPR; ● (1835) three, rapid defibrillation. A fourth step follows defibrillation: rapid [English] advanced care. Usually that takes place after an ambulance has Mr. Scott Reid (Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, CPC): Mr. arrived and continues on in the hospital. Speaker, I want to start by thanking my colleague for introducing this very important motion. I want to thank the member for Abitibi— Témiscamingue who just spoke in favour of the motion. I particularly want to thank the parliamentary secretary, the member for Ajax, who I think is indicating that the government side is likely In principle it is 100%. In practice, the highest survival rate we to support the motion. I think he was speaking in his capacity as the have seen for witnessed cardiac arrests, where someone actually sees parliamentary secretary and therefore on behalf of the government when it happens, is 74%. That is the survival rate that takes place in rather than in his capacity as a private member. In either capacity, his casinos. In casinos, it is a high-stress environment, often with people support is very much welcome. who are in bad health who are doing a high-stress activity, but they are also always on camera. Casinos typically have defibrillators and I want to talk about how effective defibrillators can be in saving trained staff close at hand. In that ideal environment, a 74% success lives and in particular about a numerical demonstration, a statistical rate has been achieved. demonstration of just how effective installed automatic external defibrillators, AEDs, can be when placed in the trunks of police cars. First, let us step back a bit. The purpose of an AED is to reduce fatalities from heart attacks, but specifically to reduce fatalities from the kind of heart attack we refer to as a sudden cardiac arrest, which ● (1840) normally starts as what is known as a pulseless ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation. This is a huge issue in terms of the number of lives that are involved in this kind of cardiac crisis.

Cardiovascular disease is the number one cause of death in However, as I said, time is of the essence. To make this point, it is Canada and in the United States. Out of hospital, sudden cardiac worth noting that after 10 minutes, the rate of success drops to less arrest accounts for 50% of cardiovascular disease deaths, so half of than 10%. Within three minutes, the success rate can be as high as the largest cause of mortality in our country. Ventricular tachycardia 74%. If someone gets there and starts applying an AED after 10 and ventricular fibrillation are, according to one study I was looking minutes, there is about a 2% success rate. at, the source of 85% of all sudden cardiac arrest deaths. The rest of them are caused by trauma, poisoning, pulmonary embolism, drowning, hypothermia, drug overdose, cerebral haemorrhage, and a grab bag of other causes. However, 85% of that 50% of the biggest killer is caused by events that, in principle, could be stopped if a defibrillator were available and applied quickly, along with some This is why the public policy response both here and in the United other interventions. States is focused intensely on putting AEDs into emergency response vehicles, such as ambulances and fire trucks, of course, In principle, AEDs can be used to save many lives. Let us be clear. to speed up response times when someone witnesses a cardiac arrest It is all about how fast one gets to the person. I want to cite an and contacts 911. We would like to see these put into police vehicles, academic paper published in 2009, in which the author states: in particular RCMP police vehicles. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15253

Private Members' Business The difference in survival rates in various American cities is based At one point I wanted to promote this by saying, “Life is cheap so almost entirely on response times. To make this point, I just want to let us start saving now.” My staff said that might not be the best read the different response rates, from a few years ago, in a series of slogan, but I believe that. Saving lives really is cheap. It has never American cities. Detroit was 0%. It could not be literally 0%, but it been cheaper. At $2,000 a life, we could literally repopulate the must be below a 1% survival rate. Chicago is 3%; New York City, House of Commons with people whose lives are saved every year 5%; Los Angeles, 7%; the state of Alabama, 8%; Salt Lake City, 8%; from next year forward, if the motion is passed and we begin to work Dallas, 10%; Rochester, New York, 10%; Memphis, Tennessee, to fulfill the goals it seeks to promote. 12%; Tucson, Arizona, 12%; San Francisco, 15%; Fresno, California, 15%; Houston, 15%; Minneapolis, 20%; Pittsburgh, 22%; Portland, Oregon, 23%; state of Iowa, 23%; Miami 24%; and Milwaukee, 26%. Seattle, Washington, is 46%, based on a Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the combination of good CPR training and the availability of Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): defibrillators where they are needed. In Seattle, they do not regard Mr. Speaker, I have enjoyed the discussion this evening. I will take a this as the final destination. I think they are, quite rightly, after 74%, bit of a different approach in addressing this very important motion. I if not the 100% that is available, in principle. We should be too. commend the member across the way for recognizing an issue about which all Canadians would be very concerned. Let me tell the House about how faster response times, due to police cruisers having defibrillators, can save lives. I turn here to another study, which tells us that in one case, in Miami, “Response by police averaged about 1.5 minutes faster than that of [emergency medical services] (6.16 versus 7.56 minutes), and the dual-response Let there be no doubt that there is a role for all of us to play. system”, in which both were notified, “reduced overall first- However, what interested me the most was the amount of responder time to 4.9 minutes (compared with 7.6 minutes from information provided. Every speaker talked about the percentages historical control). This translated to a statistically significant and the strong desire to save lives. It did not matter what side of the improvement in the percentage of those who survived...ventricular House they were on, all members chose to rise in their place and arrhythmias (17.2 percent survival rate...).” address the issue. They talked about how it could really make a difference. I will skip the other example I was going to give, except to point out that in the other example, the rate in Pittsburgh went from 6% to 14% after police vehicles installed defibrillators.

Now let us talk about Canada. In Canada there are 40,000 sudden Over the years, I have seen a lot with respect to the impact of cardiac arrests annually, and there are AEDs in police vehicles in medical technology. Many years ago when I was a member of the many places. They are in Vancouver, Kingston, Laval, Fredericton, Manitoba legislature, I was one of the two health critics for the Medicine Hat, and even in Smiths Falls, in my riding. Those are province. I can recall the amount of money we spent in health care, defibrillators that were put into police cars, with my assistance, about and most people would be quite surprised. Some of my colleagues 12 years ago. have also served in provincial legislatures. I was first elected in 1988 The city of Ottawa has had them longer than almost anywhere else as a parliamentarian, and the health care budget back then was and has excellent statistics, which I want to quote to make the point roughly just over $1 billion. Today, I believe it is over $6 billion and about how significant the life-saving can be. Every cruiser in the counting. The single greatest expenditure in Manitoba is in health Ottawa Police Service, 145 in total, has a defibrillator in its trunk. In care and there is no end in sight it seems. 2012, this resulted in 22 interventions and nine successful saves of heart attack victims. That means they survived for at least two years. In 2013, there were 23 interventions, and eight lives were saved, which is, on average, one life saved for every 17 AEDs annually. What I have experienced first hand through those years is how That is a 17% save rate, compared to 5% nationally in Canada. It is technology has advanced to a certain point where we can make fairly not as good as Seattle, but it is three times as good as the national profound and positive impacts. We can look at how that technology average. can be used to save lives. AEDs that are purchased in bulk cost about $1,000 apiece. Training costs are essentially zero, because the cops are already trained. The cost factor of the time to arrive is not a consideration, as they are already first responders. The impact of AEDs is second to no other equipment or ● (1845) machinery that has been introduced over the last number of years. As Canadians become more familiar with the benefits of AEDs, that This means that at one life saved for every 17 AEDs, the 5,600 broader knowledge will drive the demand to see more AEDs RCMP cruisers in which these could be installed could result in 300 installed in different places. The results are compelling. The most lives being saved every year. Since AEDs last 10 years, we could compelling argument is in some of the statistics that have have been save 3,000 lives over the next decade at a cost of $2,000 per life. shared by the members. 15254 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Private Members' Business I thought it was interesting when my colleague across the way I do not think there is a legislator in the House of Commons who referred to casinos. The member is right that casinos have all sorts of would not recognize the importance of trying to advance the file on elements of stress because of their activities. We can call them AEDs. There are organizations in Canada, like the Heart and Stroke security cameras, but a great number of individuals are in the Foundation, which have done so much work with different background watching. When someone goes into cardiac arrest, those stakeholders. These organizations have heard the stories that clearly individuals are very quick. I would be surprised if there were not indicate the need is there. AEDs in all casinos in Canada. Therefore, I was not surprised when the member made reference to the fact that there was, I believe, a A standing committee is in the best position to hear the different 74% or 71% survival rate. That is a fantastic goal to establish how stakeholders make their presentations. Let us hear the facts. Let us effective it could be if we had a better educated population. When I get some of the statistics. Let us hear how the federal government say population, we need to look at where most cardiac arrests take could play a leadership role in this. Let us enable the standing place, which is in homes, in public places, and at work. Chances are committee to get a better appreciation and understanding of this the person who goes into cardiac arrest is known by the individuals issue. Let us establish this as a priority. there. More often now, when people witness a cardiac arrest, they wonder if an AED is available. That is how I see this particular motion by the member across the ● (1850) way. I consider it a priority. We might differ with some of the words and so forth, but at the end of the day, I see this as a positive Another speaker talked about timing being critical. We all know suggestion on an important issue that we know our constituents that we cannot be quick enough to get access to an AED, from the would like us to address. moment of the arrest to using it to ultimately save a life. ● (1855) We have witnessed over the last number of years people becoming more educated about it. They understand its benefits. We are starting I would like to expand that. I challenge our standing committees to see AEDs in many different places, such as workplaces. In some to do just that, to look at ways in which we can deliver on such an situations AEDs are brought into people's homes. General knowl- important issue that will obviously save tens of thousands of lives. edge on how to use an AED and making these machines accessible are absolutely critical to saving lives. It would be very beneficial. I am thankful for the opportunity to share a few thoughts on this.

We have standing committees in Ottawa. I do not think we take as [Translation] much advantage as we could of good ideas, such as this motion the member has brought forward today. The Deputy Speaker: Before recognizing the hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, I must I can go through both aspects of the motion, but I want to read the inform her that there are three minutes remaining for her speech. second part of it. It reads: The rest of her speaking time will be granted another time. ...the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security should undertake a study to determine the availability of AEDs in first responder vehicles Resuming debate. The hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de- across Canada and make recommendations to the House in that regard while Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix. respecting the jurisdiction of other levels of government. ● (1900) If time permits, I will try to deal with the issue of the RCMP and the issue of jurisdiction. Mrs. Sylvie Boucher (Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Or- léans—Charlevoix, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from I do want to pick up on the point of the standing committee and Richmond—Arthabaska for his motion. I think it is very timely. I whether this would be the only directive that would be given to the find it very interesting that, despite our differences, there should be committee, or if we could maybe expand it or widen its scope, such a wonderful display of unanimity this evening on the because this goes beyond RCMP vehicles. importance of having defibrillators. They save lives. As the member for Ajax pointed out, we might think it is fairly simple to get a defibrillator put into an RCMP cruiser, but it is not. My father died a long time ago of a heart attack. At the time, there All sorts of people and groups are involved, such as independent were no such devices that could have maybe saved his life. contractors and stakeholders. Negotiations are held at different levels. On my own part, I would like to get a better understanding of When we give speeches, I think it is important to provide real it. examples, as my colleague did, of people who have experienced these events first-hand. I would also like to see how we might be able to use the Standing Committee on Health, or any other standing committee for that We heard from a number of members on both sides of the House matter. I am content, however, with what the member has suggested about this super-important topic. How interesting that we all agree in regard to the health committee. I would love to have one of our this motion deserves to be studied. We need to adopt it here, in standing committees hear the benefits of taking action on such an Parliament. It would be one of the first times people see important file, as a few of us heard this evening. parliamentarians stand together, united in their desire to save lives. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15255

Adjournment Proceedings It makes quite a difference to see that there is unanimity here, in The Government of Alberta has spent over $85 million to fight the Ottawa, on a subject that is so far-reaching and so human. What I infestation, and that funding helped slow the pine beetle, until this like about this motion is that it shows the human side of saving lives. year. This is a drop in the bucket compared to $9 billion in damages, It has been quite a while since this issue has come up in the House fighting costs, and loss of production that the fire in Fort McMurray with any regularity. We often have our differences, but when we caused, or the untold millions that it cost to fight the B.C. fires this make our discussions about the human experience, it results in year. Those fires were fed by dead pine forests, due to the pine motions like my colleague's motion. beetle. I hope that the motion will be studied in committee in a non- partisan fashion and that everyone will contribute to the discussion Our previous Conservative government gave $10 million in 2009 so that it does not become a government or an opposition motion, to fight the pine beetle in northwestern Alberta. The Fort McMurray but everyone's motion. fire last year helped destroy a large amount of the northern pine The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de- beetle, but unfortunately, it destroyed a lot more than that. We all Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix will have seven minutes saw that on the news. remaining for her speech when the House next resumes debate on the question. I remember going to a pine beetle seminar where scientists told The time provided for the consideration of private members' me the pine beetles would never get across the Rocky Mountains. business has now expired, and the order is dropped to the bottom of They have gone way across. the order of precedence on the Order Paper. During adjournment debate on October 26, I once again called on the federal government to assist Alberta in the fight against the ADJOURNMENT PROCEEDINGS mountain pine beetle. Companies like Weyerhaeuser, Millar Western, and West Fraser have spent millions of dollars of their [Translation] own money to combat the pine beetle. A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved. I have held meetings and round table discussions with park The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Salaberry—Suroît officials, CFS officials, as well as representatives from forestry and not being present in the House to raise the matter for which local communities. Parks Canada kept telling us it was going to try adjournment notice has been given, the notice is deemed withdrawn. to cull the trees. Very little was done. [English] What do we need? The minister of forestry and agriculture for the FORESTRY INDUSTRY Province of Alberta told me 10 days ago that they need financial Mr. Jim Eglinski (Yellowhead, CPC): Mr. Speaker, on help. We need need financial assistance now to cull the trees. The November 3, I asked the following question in the House: beetles killed 40,000 trees last year while we were holding them at I rise in the House once again to ask the Minister of Natural Resources about his bay, between the industry and the province, but it has increased plans to stop the pine beetle from attacking our [Canadian] forests. tenfold to more than 500,000 this year. The pine beetle is out of Last year alone, the beetle increased tenfold. Even though science and research control. has been done, the beetle has moved from Jasper Park into central Alberta and is heading east. All of Canada's pine forests are at risk. We need financial assistance to cull the trees. Again, what is the Minister of Natural Resources going to do to What is the Liberal government doing to stop this infestation? stop the pine beetle from attacking our forests? We have moved and must move faster than the pine beetle before it is too late for all of Again, I am going to ask a similar question. When is the Liberal Canada. government going to step up to the plate? Last week we received an answer that it was doing science and research. I rise again to say that science and research are not applicable at this time. Why is that? We ● (1905) know all about the pine beetle. Science and research have been done for many years. I was there when the pine beetle was first spotted in Ms. Pam Goldsmith-Jones (Parliamentary Secretary to the western British Columbia in the late 1970s. If proper action had been Minister of International Trade, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank the taken then, and the trees culled or burned, I probably would not be member for Yellowhead for his dedication to this important issue asking the question again today. affecting the forest sector in his riding and across the country. As an MP from B.C., I empathize. It is a very serious situation. Our boreal forests are at risk. What is needed from the minister is financial aid. Even the former Liberal government, in 2005, recognized the problem and gave $100 million to fight the pine I would like to reassure him, as our government has last week and beetle when it was still in British Columbia. Did science and the week before when the question has come up in the House, that research stop it? No, they did not. Did we stop the pine beetle? No, we are doing everything we possibly can to stop this infestation from we did not. spreading. 15256 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Adjournment Proceedings Unfortunately, climate change has made once inhospitable forests gave $100 million. Alberta needs help right now. It cannot afford to and climates more inviting to the mountain pine beetle and other do it on its own. Science has not stopped the pine beetle. Actual destructive forest pests. Natural dispersal is allowing them to spread culling or burning will stop the pine beetle. We are asking you for with alarming speed, creating a real threat for forest-dependent financial assistance to stop it before it gets further east. communities across Canada. The member for Yellowhead has seen the impact and the extent of The Deputy Speaker: I would just remind the hon. member to the problem in his own riding. Sadly, the situation is not unique to direct speech towards the Chair. We try to avoid using the “you” Alberta's pine forests. That is why our government has invested an word in a direct fashion. additional $87 million in scientific infrastructure upgrades. That includes federal labs conducting research that informs our responses to destructive forest pests, such as the pine beetle. The hon. parliamentary secretary. This new funding is critical to the Canadian forest service, which employs Canada's largest team of scientists devoted to pest Ms. Pam Goldsmith-Jones: Mr. Speaker, I understand and management. The forest service is a recognized centre of excellence empathize with the member opposite's frustration with the mountain on pests, and invests $20 million annually to develop scientific pine beetle. solutions that help forest managers and communities respond to damaging pests by slowing their spread, mitigating their impact, and reducing the risk of infestation in areas not yet affected. It is chewing into a forest sector that employs more than 200,000 Canadians and contributes more than $23 billion a year to our GDP. Over the last two years alone, the forest service has spent $1.3 In fact, our forest industry provides more jobs, dollar for dollar, than million supporting mountain pine beetle research. Through these any other resource sector. This is why our government is seized with efforts, we have been able to assess the economic and environmental protecting Canada's forests, and the men and women, and risks associated with these forest pests, particularly under a changing communities that depend upon them. climate, and develop adaptive options for affected communities and industries. All of this is vitally important as we work toward our ultimate goal, which is to contain the pine beetle spread. Through the Canadian forest service, we have some of our country's brightest minds developing innovative solutions for these We have also assisted in maximizing value from beetle-killed infestations, including the one devastating western Canada's pine timber, as well as developing new technologies and products. For forests. Together, I believe we will meet this challenge. example, our research has helped the forest sector adapt its practices to use the affected wood in traditional manufacturing mills, as well as alternative product markets, such as panel board manufacturing AEROSPACE INDUSTRY and wood biomass recovery. Nor are we doing any of this alone. Yellowhead is a case in point. Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC): Mr. The Canadian forest service is working closely with industry, Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to address a question I asked provincial government agencies, and Parks Canada to develop on October 17. In that question, I ask the government to support science-based responses under the national forest pest strategy. This Alberta, not Alabama. means developing and implementing co-operative management strategies, informed by science, to mitigate the infestation and spread of mountain pine beetle at the regional level. Things in Alberta are quite dire. Our economy is growing at one of the lowest rates in the country. Our oil patch is under significant The Canadian forest service, the provinces, industry, and our other distress. The logging industry has significant challenges from all partners are fully engaged on this. We are all working together to angles, especially when it comes to accessing wood fibre. Our protect the economic value of provincial forests and preserve the farmers are increasingly struggling to get their crops off in time due ecological integrity of national and provincial parks. to either a really wet year or a dry year, depending in which part of ● (1910) the province they are. We are looking to the federal government for support for Alberta particularly and support for Canada overall. Mr. Jim Eglinski: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her reply, but I think it is a lot of bull. Science and technology has not stopped the beetle. If the My question was about Bombardier and the millions of dollars government is looking for integrity of our parks, it should just take that had been given to it to prop it up. I understand this was due to a drive through Jasper Park and look at all the brown, dead trees the fact the Liberals had promised not to expand the airport in from the B.C. border through to the Alberta border. Your science and Toronto, which therefore did not allow for the sale of the C Series jet technology could not even stop it within a confined area of the park, to a particular airplane company, which made that C Series jet and you are saying you are doing a lot. unprofitable. Therefore, to allow for that promise to be kept, the Liberals had to pay off Bombardier. In turn, that led to a large tariff The government needs to put up some money to help the Province being placed on the C Series jet, which was to the detriment of of Alberta fight the pine beetle situation. Your previous government Canada overall. November 9, 2017 COMMONS DEBATES 15257

Adjournment Proceedings Going forward, we now are looking at a situation where in order ISED under the Investment Canada Act to ensure that it will be of for the C Series jet to be sold in the United States, it has to be overall economic benefit to Canada, and the approval of competition produced in the United States. Airbus has come along and taken a authorities. Our government has been clear from the beginning that share in Bombardier, which is now leading to Bombardier planes any strategic partnership between Bombardier and Airbus would be being built in Alabama. My question was why we were supporting expected to bring measurable benefits to Canada, and strengthen ties Alabama and not Alberta. That was the main gist of it. We know the between the Canadian and European aerospace industries. tax dollars have been put into Bombardier, but the planes will be built in Alabama. If these airplanes are to be built in Alabama, will Canadian In reviewing the proposed strategic partnership under the taxpayers be reimbursed for all the money that was put into Investment Canada Act, the minister will consider the following Bombardier? That is the essence of the question. factors, among others: the effect on the level of economic activity in Canada, including the utilization of parts and services produced in When it comes to support for Alberta, we have seen major Canada; the degree and significance of participation by Canadians in pipeline projects get cancelled or are no longer approved after they the Canadian business; the effect of the investment on productivity, have been approved. Major pipelines that have been approved do not industrial efficiency, technological development, product innovation, look like they will be built or still have significant hurdles to get and product variety in Canada; the effect of the investment on past. There does not seem to be any support from the government in competition within any industry in Canada; the compatibility of the Ottawa to get these projects built. investment with national industrial, economic, and cultural policies; Will the government support Alberta and work hard to get the and, finally, the contribution of the investment to Canada's ability to taxpayer dollars that were spent on Bombardier back so those dollars compete in world markets. can be used to support hard-working Albertans who are under duress at this point, hard-working Albertans who work in the oil patch, forestry sector, and in the farming sector? We support the aerospace It is through these specific factors that the government will ensure industry. We are purely looking for similar support for the industries that the proposed strategic partnership between Airbus and that make Alberta thrive. Bombardier brings concrete, measurable benefits to Canada and ● (1915) Canadians. [Translation] Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Bombardier is, and will remain, an anchor firm for the aerospace Speaker, I would like to begin by thanking my colleague. sector for Canada moving forward, and we will continue to seek to This government absolutely believes in Alberta. There are many grow and promote Canada's world-class supply chain in the global opportunities and jobs there. We approved three pipelines in Alberta, industry. and that is a very good thing for Albertans.

I am pleased to respond to the comment made by the hon. member ● (1920) for Peace River—Westlock about the recent announcement of a strategic partnership between Bombardier and Airbus. Canada is one of the largest aerospace manufacturing countries in Mr. Arnold Viersen: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for the world. This industry contributes over $28 billion to our GDP and his impassioned speech in defence of and protection of the aerospace accounts for over 200,000 jobs in every part of the country. industry. However, what we are asking for is the same kind of [English] enthusiasm and protection for the proponents of the industries in Alberta. As Canada's aerospace anchor firm, Bombardier is responsible for approximately one-third of Canadian aerospace manufacturing GDP, and has been Canada's top manufacturing R and D spender since 2012. The main thrust of my question was: Will the taxpayer be repaid their portion that they put into the Bombardier deal? The proposed partnership by Bombardier with Airbus combines innovation with increased market access for a state-of-the-art Canadian plane that is world class. On the surface, we think it is a very positive step. Airbus and Bombardier's proposed partnership The C Series jet is now owned by a foreign entity, which is what presents an opportunity to increase the ability of the C Series to this deal is all about. When the government gave the money to access markets, meaning more production and more jobs right here Bombardier, it was to prop up jobs here in Canada. Why would we in Canada, including in Alberta. now be allowing Bombardier to be sold off to foreign companies so that Canadian taxpayer money can be supporting companies that are I can say further to the hon. member for Peace River—Westlock not in Canada? We have seen similar things with this infrastructure that any potential investment requires review by the minister of bank. Will the taxpayer be repaid? 15258 COMMONS DEBATES November 9, 2017

Adjournment Proceedings Mr. Marco Mendicino: Mr. Speaker, let me be absolutely clear. I am proud of all the work that the minister and his entire team is Under the C Series program, the obligation for repayment remains doing on this file. unchanged. We we can count on Bombardier continuing to be an The Deputy Speaker: The motion to adjourn the House is now important contributor to the aerospace sector. This new partnership deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands that it is exploring with Airbus will create jobs here on Canadian adjourned until Monday, November 20, at 11 a.m., pursuant to an soil. This will benefit the community in my hon. colleague's riding. order made on Tuesday, November 7. It will benefit all Canadians. (The House adjourned at 7:22 p.m.)

CONTENTS

Thursday, November 9, 2017

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS GOVERNMENT ORDERS 2016-17 Departmental Results Yukon Environmental and Socio-Economic Assessment Act Mr. Brison ...... 15177 Bill C-17. Third reading ...... 15186 Government Response to Petitions Mr. Waugh...... 15186 Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15177 Mr. Hoback...... 15188 Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Reg- Ms. Murray...... 15189 ulations Ms. Quach...... 15189

Mr. Alghabra ...... 15177 Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15189 Remembrance Day (Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed) 15190 Mr. Goodale ...... 15177 Cannabis Act

Mr. McColeman ...... 15178 Bill C-45. Report Stage ...... 15190

Ms. Mathyssen ...... 15179 Mr. McKinnon...... 15190

Mr. Boudrias ...... 15180 Mr. Falk ...... 15191

Ms. May (Saanich—Gulf Islands) ...... 15181 Mr. Stetski ...... 15191 Mr. Berthold...... 15192 Committees of the House Mr. Blair...... 15193 Citizenship and Immigration Mr. Aubin ...... 15193 Mr. Whalen ...... 15181 Ms. Gladu ...... 15194

Petitions Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15194

The Environment Mr. Aubin ...... 15195

Mr. Cannings ...... 15182 Mr. Généreux...... 15195

Taxation Mr. Godin ...... 15195

Mr. Webber ...... 15182 Mr. Blair...... 15197

Algoma Central Passenger Train Ms. Quach...... 15197

Mrs. Hughes...... 15182 Mr. Fast...... 15197 Taxation Mr. Gerretsen ...... 15199

Mrs. Gallant ...... 15182 Mr. Fast...... 15199 The Environment Mr. Dusseault...... 15199

Ms. Mathyssen ...... 15182 Mr. Warawa ...... 15199 Taxation Mr. Picard ...... 15200

Ms. Gladu ...... 15182 Mr. Dusseault...... 15201 Food Mr. Albas ...... 15201

Ms. Moore...... 15182 Ms. Quach...... 15201 The Environment Mr. Blair...... 15203 Ms. Gladu ...... 15203 Ms. May (Saanich—Gulf Islands) ...... 15182 Housing Mr. Saroya...... 15204 Mr. Picard ...... 15205 Ms. May (Saanich—Gulf Islands) ...... 15183 The Environment Mr. Stetski ...... 15205 Mr. Maguire ...... 15205 Ms. May (Saanich—Gulf Islands) ...... 15183 Mr. Blair...... 15207 Election Laws Mr. Cannings ...... 15207 Mr. Dusseault...... 15183 Mr. Webber ...... 15208 Falun Gong Mrs. Caesar-Chavannes ...... 15209 Mr. Dusseault...... 15183 Mr. Waugh...... 15209 Taxation Mr. Erskine-Smith ...... 15209 Mr. Dusseault...... 15183 Mr. Généreux...... 15209 Questions on the Order Paper Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15183 STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS Questions Passed as Orders for Returns John Shiwak

Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15185 Ms. Jones ...... 15211 Remembrance Day Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15216 Mr. Doherty ...... 15211 Ethics Remembrance Day Mr. Falk ...... 15216 Mr. Eyking ...... 15211 Mr. Lightbound...... 15216 Mrs. Boucher ...... 15216 Transgender Day of Remembrance Mr. Lightbound...... 15216 Mr. Garrison ...... 15211 Mr. Brassard ...... 15217 Canada-Macedonia Parliamentary Friendship Group Mr. Lightbound...... 15217 Mr. May (Cambridge) ...... 15212 Mr. Brassard ...... 15217 Brandon Marlins Mr. Lightbound...... 15217 Mr. Maguire ...... 15212 Taxation Margaret Rose Kury Mr. Poilievre...... 15217 Mr. Ruimy...... 15212 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15217 Mr. Poilievre...... 15217 Bowvember Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15217 Mr. Fergus ...... 15212 Veterans Indigenous Spirituality Ms. Moore...... 15218 Mr. Deltell ...... 15212 Mr. Miller (Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs) 15218 Veterans Ms. Mathyssen ...... 15218 Mr. Ellis ...... 15213 Mr. Miller (Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs) 15218 Etobicoke Sports Hall of Fame Taxation Mr. Maloney...... 15213 Mr. Kmiec ...... 15218 Battle of Passchendaele Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15218 Mr. Blaney (Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis) ...... 15218 Mr. Kitchen...... 15213 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15218 Marconi Club Mr. Blaney (Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis) ...... 15218 ...... Mr. Sheehan 15213 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15218 Remembrance Day Ms. Gladu ...... 15219 Ms. Trudel...... 15213 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15219 Religious Freedom Foreign Affairs Mr. Nicholson ...... 15214 Ms. Laverdière ...... 15219 Mr. DeCourcey ...... 15219 Remembrance Day Mr. Garrison ...... 15219 Mrs. McCrimmon ...... 15214 Mr. DeCourcey ...... 15219 ORAL QUESTIONS Families, Children and Social Development Mr. Whalen...... 15219 National Defence Mr. Duclos ...... 15219 Mr. Rayes ...... 15214 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15214 Taxation Mr. Rayes ...... 15214 Mr. Bernier ...... 15220 Mr. Hehr...... 15214 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15220 ...... Mr. Rayes ...... 15215 Mr. Bernier 15220 ...... Mr. Hehr...... 15215 Mrs. Lebouthillier 15220 ...... Ms. Bergen ...... 15215 Mr. Strahl 15220 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15220 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15215 Mr. Strahl...... 15220 Ms. Bergen ...... 15215 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15220 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15215 Taxation Human Rights Ms. Benson...... 15220 Mr. Caron ...... 15215 Mr. Virani ...... 15221 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15215 Mr. Davies...... 15221 Mr. Caron ...... 15215 Ms. Petitpas Taylor...... 15221 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15216 Mr. Boulerice ...... 15216 Agriculture and Agri-Food Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15216 Mr. Barlow ...... 15221 Mr. Boulerice ...... 15216 Mr. MacAulay ...... 15221 Mr. Barlow ...... 15221 Notice of time allocation motion

Mr. MacAulay ...... 15221 Mr. Sohi ...... 15232 Housing Report Stage ...... Mr. Richards...... 15221 Mr. Carrie 15232 Mr. Duclos ...... 15222 Mr. Gerretsen ...... 15233 Mr. Cooper ...... 15233 Health Mr. Blair...... 15234 Mr. Bittle ...... 15222 Ms. Moore...... 15234 Ms. Petitpas Taylor...... 15222 Mr. Holland ...... 15235 Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Mr. Deltell ...... 15235 Ms. Rempel ...... 15222 Mr. Blair...... 15236 Mr. Oliphant...... 15222 Ms. Lapointe ...... 15237

The Environment Mr. Carrie ...... 15237

Ms. Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona) ...... 15222 Mr. Holland ...... 15239

Ms. Duncan (Etobicoke North) ...... 15222 Mr. Viersen ...... 15239 Official Languages Mr. Trost ...... 15239 Mr. Clarke ...... 15222 Mr. Kitchen...... 15241 Mr. Casey (Charlottetown) ...... 15222 Mr. Holland ...... 15241 Mr. Reid ...... 15241 Taxation Mr. Viersen ...... 15241 Mr. Ste-Marie...... 15223 Mr. Arya...... 15243 Mrs. Lebouthillier ...... 15223 Mr. Reid ...... 15243 Public Services and Procurement Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15243 Mr. Boudrias ...... 15223 Mr. Albrecht ...... 15243 Ms. Qualtrough...... 15223 Mr. Blair...... 15245 Mr. Beaulieu...... 15223 Mr. Carrie ...... 15245 Ms. Qualtrough...... 15223 Mr. Arya...... 15245

Business of the House Mrs. Wagantall ...... 15246 Ms. Bergen ...... 15224 Mr. Goodale ...... 15224 PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

GOVERNMENT ORDERS Automated External Defibrillators Mr. Rayes ...... 15247 Cannabis Act Motion ...... 15247 Bill C-45. Report Stage ...... 15224 Mr. Holland ...... 15249 Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15224 Ms. Moore...... 15249 Mr. Généreux...... 15224 Mr. Holland ...... 15250 Mr. Carrie ...... 15225 Ms. Moore...... 15251 Mr. Gerretsen ...... 15225 Mr. Reid ...... 15252 Mr. Rayes ...... 15225 Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15253 Mr. Arya...... 15226 Mrs. Boucher ...... 15254 Mr. Gerretsen ...... 15226 Ms. Lapointe ...... 15227 Mr. Kitchen...... 15227 ADJOURNMENT PROCEEDINGS Mr. Blair...... 15228 Forestry Industry Mr. Waugh...... 15229 Mr. Eglinski ...... 15255 Ms. Fry ...... 15229 Ms. Goldsmith-Jones ...... 15255 Mr. Kent ...... 15230 Aerospace Industry Mr. Sopuck ...... 15231 Mr. Viersen ...... 15256 Ms. Moore...... 15231 Mr. Mendicino...... 15257 Published under the authority of the Speaker of Publié en conformité de l’autorité the House of Commons du Président de la Chambre des communes SPEAKER’S PERMISSION PERMISSION DU PRÉSIDENT

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