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Principled Ideas from the Centennial Institute Publisher, Dr. Donald W. Sweeting Volume 12, Number 3 • March 2020 Editor, Jeff Hunt • Assistant Editor, Antonette Smith

INSIGHTS: KEN STARR ON THE Ken Starr interviewed by Jimmy Sengenberger

Ken Starr at the 2019 Western Conservative Summit. Jimmy Sengenberger JS: You wrote a wonderful book, It ended up with Paul Manafort being found guilty of crimes Contempt: a Memoir of the Clinton Investigation. One of the that had nothing to do with the initial investigation. things that is fascinating about this book is the detail about how KS: He was found guilty on seven indictments. you got from a land deal to a blue dress. How in the world did JS: Yes, but it was unrelated to the Russia investigation. It was that happen? looking back years ago with regards to Ukraine and not related Ken Starr KS: One of the reasons I chose to write the book after to Russian collusion. What do you make of that? 20 years was that there continued to be a lack of understanding KS: This is one of the reasons Bob Mueller's testimony will be as to how the investigation progressed to the most controversial important to answer some of these questions. My understanding phase, the Lewinsky phase. We had fourteen criminal convictions is that the Manafort investigation and prosecution was in , but what does that have to do with conduct in the authorized by the acting the United States. White House involving this relationship? Whatever one wants to say about Bob Mueller, the investigation, Information came to us that the president of the United States and the report, I have no reason to believe that each of those was involved in a perjurious course of action encouraging others prosecutions, including General Michael Flynn, were not to lie under oath. We assemble that information, took it to the authorized specifically by the Deputy Attorney General. Attorney General of the United States, , who was JS: Let's get to the Mueller report. You have been going after a appointed by President Clinton, and she made the determination, former colleague of yours, Bob Mueller, the on correctly I believe, that the matter had to be investigated. She did this case, particularly for the way in which he handled book 2, not sweep it under the rug. She did the right thing and went to which is about accusations of obstruction of justice on the part a three-judge panel, which existed under the old Independent of President Trump. Why have you been so critical of him? Counsel law. That three-judge panel ratified what the Attorney General has said, that our investigation should look into these Ken Starr was the independent counsel on the investigation that led to the serious allegations of and obstruction of justice. That got impeachment of Pres. . He is now a member of Pres. Trump’s lost in all of the debate twenty-one years ago. defense team for his impeachment trial in the Senate. Centennial Institute sponsors research, events, and publications to enhance JS: That goes to a cornerstone question about the Russia public understanding of the most important issues facing our state and nation. investigation. That investigation began supposedly looking By proclaiming Truth, we aim to foster faith, family, and freedom, into Trump/Russia collusion and interference in our elections. teach citizenship, and renew the spirit of 1776. C E N T E N N I A L I N S T I T U T E

Faith  Family  Freedom  Future

Dear Reader,

Reading this interview can feel a bit dated. It’s amazing the Mueller Report happened only eight months ago. Judge Ken Starr just recently visited Colorado Christian University and addressed our faculty on the importance of Christian higher education. We were so grateful to host him once again. He has been a defender of law and justice through many of the most contentious moments in recent American history.

During his most recent successful defense of President Trump at the Senate impeachment trials, Starr alluded to the “Age of Impeachment.” Special councils became a tool of the House of Representatives originally under the Independent Council Provisions of the Ethics and Government Act of 1978. When this law was challenged in court via the case Morrison v. Olson, Justice Scalia condemned the independent counsels law as a violation of the separation of powers. He famously wrote in dissent, “Frequently, an issue of this sort will come before the Court clad, so to speak, in sheep’s clothing: the potential of the asserted principle to effect important change in the equilibrium of power is not immediately evident, and must be discerned by a careful and perceptive analysis. But this wolf comes as a wolf.”

The Independent Council Provision of the Ethics and Government Act of was allowed to expire in June of 1999 but the precedent of appointing independent councils still remains within internal Department of Justice regulations.

One of the key aspects of Judge Starr’s defense of President Trump during the Senate Impeachment Trial was that we experiencing these impeachment attempts because of a weakening of the separation of powers between the three branches. Similar to Justice Scalia’s arguments, Judge Starr argued that we must return to equal and separate powers of the three branches of our government.

Unlike many universities in America, Colorado Christian University is committed to impacting culture in support of the original intent of the Constitution. Because of your support, we are bringing guests like Judge Ken Starr to our university to help train the next generation to embrace our country’s founding documents.

Thank you for your continued support!

Jeff Hunt Director, Centennial Institute Co-Chairman, Western Conservative Summit Vice President of Public Policy, Colorado Christian University

The Centennial Review speech digest is published monthly by the Centennial Institute at Colorado Christian University. CCU seeks to provide Christ-centered higher education transforming students to impact the world with grace and truth. The authors’ views are not necessarily those of CCU or the Centennial Institute. Subscriptions free upon request. Write to: Centennial Institute, 8787 W. Alameda Ave., Lakewood, CO 80226. Call 303-963-3157 or visit us online at centennial.ccu.edu.

8787 W Alameda Ave  Lakewood, CO 80226  [email protected]  303.963.3424  centennial.ccu.edu

Centennial Review ▪ March 2020 ▪ 2 KS: I have a background of a professional relationship with . Bob and I served under President George Herbert Walker Bush, President Bush 41. Bob served with great distinction as head of the Criminal Division at that time. He has had a distinguished career. But here we are now. I have been critical of the Mueller Report because I believe it goes far beyond what is contemplated by the regulations of the Justice Department. Briefly, those regulations call on Special Counsel Bob Mueller to provide the Attorney General, not Congress, with a confidential report. Note the word confidential. The report should explain his prosecutorial and declination decisions. He did that in book one, but he then goes on in book two, which is the obstructive acts. What that part of the report was designed to be was inappropriate. It essentially is a book for Congress to consider impeachment. As an agent and subordinate officer of the Justice Department, he did not have that authority. That said, it is before the Congress, and we will see what he says in his testimony. JS: When you released the , you were clear in testifying before Congress that you believed the President Clinton had committed obstruction of justice in addition to perjury. Do you think the Mueller Report provides sufficient evidence that President Trump actually committed obstruction of justice? KS: I don't. I know there There are reasons are prosecutors who believe there is evidence, but I disagree. First, why we must be JS: Bob Mueller was supposed to testify next Wednesday. It's I have a quarrel with been postponed to the 24th. Do you think he will actually concerned and the approach that the testify? report takes with respect vigilant. But the to the obstruction of KS: I will be surprised if he does not because he was under Supreme Court justice statute. Second, subpoena. The subpoena said, we intend to have your testimony many of the acts that Mr. Mueller, we being the House Judiciary Committee. The fact has been favoring are referred to, such that it was supported by House Republicans tells you that there as the firing of James is a compelling interest in hearing what he has to say. religious liberty. Comey, are at the heart JS: Providing that does happen, put us in Bob Mueller shoes. of presidential power. You are one of very few people in the history of the country who President Trump was exercising his Article II power. When I can talk about a situation like that of a Special Counsel testifying look at each of the obstructive acts as they are called, they are not before Congress on a report about a president the United States. chargeable offenses. KS: What I think he should and will do is stick with a report. Therefore, I applaud Bill Barr. He has come under serious When the questions flow from both sides of the aisle, he needs to criticism for having made the decision. Also, and this went know his report absolutely and then not embellish. In particular, underreported, the Deputy Attorney General he needs to be assiduous in avoiding the question, “do you who appointed Bob Mueller, agreed with the decision consistent think the President of the United States should be impeached with the traditions of the department. The allegations asserted in by this House?” Even though we concluded that Bill Clinton the report did not rise to the level of a crime. had committed felonies, I never took the position that he should

CENTENNIAL REVIEW is published monthly by the Centennial Institute at Colorado Christian University. The authors’ views are not necessarily those of CCU. Designer, Justin Jones. Subscriptions free upon request. Write to: Centennial Institute, 8787 W. Alameda Ave., Lakewood, CO 80226. Call 800.44.FAITH. Or visit us online at centennial.ccu.edu.

Please join the Centennial Institute today. As a Centennial donor, you can help us restore America’s moral core and prepare tomorrow’s leaders. Your gift is tax-deductible. Please use the envelope provided. Thank you for your support. - Jeff Hunt, Director

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Centennial Review ▪ March 2020 ▪ 3 Ken Starr is best known as the independent counsel (1994–99) who headed the investigation that led to 8787 W. Alameda Ave. the impeachment of U.S. Lakewood, CO 80226 Pres. Bill Clinton. Return Service Requested After attending George Washington University (B.A.) and (M.A.), he earned a Juris Doctor (1973) from . He served as a to Warren Burger, as a counselor to the U.S. attorney general, as an appellate judge, and as U.S. solicitor general. In 1994, Starr was named the independent counsel to lead the investigation into the Whitewater affair, which involved a land deal in Arkansas when Clinton was governor. Eleven people were convicted of crimes. Starr later investigated the suicide of White House counsel Vincent Foster, Travelgate involving the firing of longtime White House workers, and Filegate pertaining to FBI files on Republicans found in the White House. In 1998, however, allegations of an affair between Clinton and White House intern became the focus of Starr’s attention. Starr returned to private practice. He later served as dean of ’s law school then became president of in 2010 and chancellor in 2013. In 2018, he published Contempt: A Memoir of the Clinton Investigation. Two years later, he joined Pres. ’s defense team for his impeachment trial in the Senate.

be impeached. I was required under the statute under which I the report talk about the transition after the election. I praise was appointed to provide the referral or report, but we did not Bob Mueller and the team for getting this information. They say, “here is exactly what you should do.” We said, “here's the reported that got his oligarchs together in the information for you to evaluate and assess.” More than once Kremlin and said, “We don't know this new guy. Who can get during the day-long hearing, I would hold up the report and say, connections with the incoming administration?” Doesn't that “this is for you. You required me to provide you with this, but suggest that there wasn't an existing chain of communication? you can do anything you want to with it including ignoring it.” The whole idea was outlandish to begin with. So I would ask JS: Let's talk about the Republicans. You have strongly advised Bob Mueller, “When did you conclude there was no collusion them against talking about particular things that Republicans are and did you consider issuing an interim report so the president especially curious about right now and saying they should take a could get on with his business?” different tact. What would you advise the GOP congressmen in When you read the report, you will see this president was so terms of their questioning? frustrated. He felt that the entire thing was unfair. He kept using KS: I would not worry about how did the investigation come that word as quoted in the Mueller report, “This is unfair, this to be because I think Bob Mueller will hold up the appointing is wrong, this is bad for the country. How can I carry on my authority document to say he was given a job to do and that's presidency?” It is a lamentation that comes rolling through the the job that he did. He will ask them if they have questions pages of the report. about the job that he did and remind them that he didn't need JS: One final question. The theme here at this Summit this year to go behind what happened at the Justice Department or the is religious liberty. You wanted to share a couple of thoughts on FBI. Instead, I would ask broader questions along the lines of, the role of the Supreme Court in protecting religious liberty. do you recognize, as your report seems to make plain, that the KS: There are many reasons why we must be concerned and very existence of this investigation was highly frustrating to the vigilant. But just as the Supreme Court decided favorably to the president who felt that it was impeding his ability to get his idea of public displays of religious faith in the Bladensburg Cross job done? case decided a couple of weeks ago so to, time and time again Secondly, the report concluded, and it is worded somewhat in recent years, the Supreme Court has been favoring religious adroitly, that there was no collusion. Mueller may take issue with liberty. The culture is putting enormous pressures, but look to that, saying that the evidence didn't show. But I would hammer the hills from whence our help comes, including the Supreme him with questions about that section. Thirty pages or so in Court of the United States. n

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