Dáil Éireann

DÁIL ÉIREANN AN COMHCHOISTE UM GHNÓTHAÍ AN AONTAIS EORPAIGH JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN UNION AFFAIRS Dé Céadaoin, 11 Samhain 2020 Wednesday, 11 November 2020 Tháinig an Comhchoiste le chéile ag 9 a.m. The Joint Committee met at 9 a.m. Comhaltaí a bhí i láthair / Members present: Teachtaí Dála / Deputies Seanadóirí / Senators Dara Calleary, Lisa Chambers, Marian Harkin, Regina Doherty, Brendan Howlin, Sharon Keogan, Ruairí Ó Murchú, Vincent P. Martin, Neale Richmond. Michael McDowell. Teachta / Deputy Joe McHugh sa Chathaoir / in the Chair. 1 JEUA Business of Joint Committee Chairman: I propose we go into private session to deal with some housekeeping matters. The joint committee went into private session at 9.14 a.m. and resumed in public session at 9.17 a.m. Conference on the Future of Europe: Discussion Chairman: As a committee we are looking forward to this discussion on the Conference on the Future of Europe. I welcome Professor Federico Fabbrini and Dr. Catherine Day, as well as Professor Gavin Barrett, who will join us shortly. Today’s meeting is the start of our engage- ment on this very important topic. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these pro- ceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I wish to advise witnesses giving evidence from a location outside of the parliamentary precincts to note that the constitutional protections afforded to witnesses attending to give evidence before committees may not extend to them. No clear guidance can be given on the extent to which evidence given is covered by absolute privilege of a statutory nature. Persons giving evidence from another jurisdiction should also be mindful of their domestic statutory regime. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter, they must respect that direction. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an of- ficial either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I call on Professor Fabbrini to make his opening statement. Professor Federico Fabbrini: I thank the committee for inviting me. It is a pleasure to be able to address the committee, and I am delighted to be sharing the platform with Dr. Day and Professor Barrett to provide an insight into the future of Europe, an important topic on which I have been working since I was awarded the Charlemagne Prize for research in the city of Aachen in November last year. My remarks will be based on “Possible Avenues for Further Political Integration in Europe”, a report I was asked to write by the European Parliament constitutional affairs committee and which was published in June. I commend it to the House for consideration. I will speak around three points: first, that Covid-19 increases the urge for reforming the EU, second, that the Conference on the Future of Europe constitutes a major opportunity for reforming the EU and third, the challenges ahead and the importance of keeping open all avenues to further political integration in the EU. The pandemic has increased the need for EU reform in two ways. Initially, we witnessed the EU’s weaknesses. In the early phases of Covid-19 the EU and its member states were weak and disorganised in putting together a response to the health crisis. That pointed out some of the shortcomings of the current EU system of governance. Subsequently the EU managed to take 2 11 NOVEMBER 2020 important steps, particularly following the Commission proposal for a recovery plan. However, these steps also increased the need for reform because the recovery plan creates an urge for increasing the effectiveness of the EU but also the legitimacy of the EU if we are to go in the direction of substantially increasing the powers of EU institutions in taxing and spending. In this context, the Conference on the Future of Europe represents a once-in-a-generation opportunity to push the project of European integration forward and to renew the EU. As the committee will be well aware, the idea of establishing a conference on the future of Europe goes back to a proposal by the French President, Emmanuel Macron, in March 2019. Since then, all EU institutions have supported the initiative. The Parliament and the Commis- sion in particular have strongly endorsed the plan for the conference and the Council for the European Union has also supported the initiative. We are waiting for the three institutions to come together and outline their visions for the conference mandate in a joint declaration but it is already possible to emphasise that the conference represents an out-of-the-box initiative with lots of potential. It is akin to several illustrious precedents, namely the Convention on the Future of Europe exactly 20 years ago, as well as further back in the history of the EU, to the Conference of Messina, for example. Both of those events were crucial in relaunching integration at moments of crisis and serve as possible templates for the conference itself. Nevertheless, we must be mindful of the obstacles ahead. If the conference wants to be ambitious and to achieve its objectives, it will face challenges. A phrase which is often taboo in conversations on Europe is “treaty change”. If the conference wants to really tackle the in- stitutional and substantive shortcomings of the current EU system of governance it will have to deal with treaty change, yet everyone here will be well aware of the difficulties that avenue would raise because of the problem of unanimity. Amendments to the treaties of the European Union require unanimous consent by the Governments of member states and then they have to be ratified unanimously by all member countries. Yet, this problem has also been recently addressed, particularly in the context of the euro crisis, by an increasing tendency of member states to use treaties outside the framework of the EU to push integration further. This practice of separate intergovernmental agreements, which has emerged in the context of the EMU, represents a potential pathway forward. I am thinking of agreements such as the European fiscal compact, the European Stability Mechanism and the intergovernmental agreement on the single resolution, which have used for the first time in the history of European integration a rule that the treaties themselves would enter into force not after unanimous approval by the signatory states but on the basis of super-qualified majority ratification rules. That potentially also opens up a pathway for the Conference on the Future of Europe. That is what I was specifically asked by the European Parliament to consider in my report. I suggested that the conference could consider drafting a new treaty, which I call a political compact, with new rules on its entry into force which would overcome the problem of unanimity. As I am speaking to the Oireachtas, let me make one point very clear. Ireland has had a complicated tradition of ratifying new treaties in the past but today, clearly, I do not think Ireland will be the country that could face problems. The support for the EU following Brexit has never been so high in the nation, so the question or the challenge of unanimity votes in the ratification of new treaty amendments, in my view, mostly comes from other member states of the EU, particularly countries which, as the committee knows, are backsliding in respect of the rule of law and democracy. That poses a major threat to the future of Europe because the EU could really be blocked by nations who are sliding towards illiberalism, and I do not think we can afford that. The idea of a political compact as a possible outcome of the conference on the future of Eu- rope is essentially a way to renew the Union after Brexit and Covid-19. It is important, as we 3 JEUA discuss the underlying importance of renewing and relaunching integration, that we also think of what might be possible avenues to achieve that in the long term. I will stop my remarks there. I very much look forward to the conversation with committee members. Chairman: I thank Professor Fabbrini. I call Dr. Catherine Day. She was before this committee in April last year and she is welcome back. Dr. Catherine Day: I thank the Chairman. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to the committee today. It is very important that we find a way to discuss the future of the EU with our citizens and especially to listen to how they would like to see the EU develop in the coming years. Brexit has shown us all how much we have to gain from our membership of the EU but it has also revealed how little people understand about how it works in practice. Of course, the EU will need to change and adapt as it tackles future challenges and it is clear it will only be able to do so effectively if it carries the majority of citizens with it. It is clear to everybody that Brexit has shown us the perils of citizen detachment and disillusion. Having said that, it will not be easy to arrange an EU-wide series of debates and even harder to find the common threads between the different national and regional debates.

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