Tird Session, 41st Parliament REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON CROWN CORPORATIONS Vancouver Tursday, January 31, 2019 Issue No. 12 BOWINN MA, MLA, CHAIR ISSN 1499-4194 MEMBERSHIP Crown Corporations Chair: Bowinn Ma (North Vancouver–Lonsdale, NDP) Deputy Chair: Stephanie Cadieux (Surrey South, BC Liberal) Members: Spencer Chandra Herbert (Vancouver–West End, NDP) Jas Johal (Richmond-Queensborough, BC Liberal) Ravi Kahlon (Delta North, NDP) Peter Milobar (Kamloops–North Tompson, BC Liberal) Adam Olsen (Saanich North and the Islands, BC Green Party) Rachna Singh (Surrey–Green Timbers, NDP) Jordan Sturdy (West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, BC Liberal) Clerk: Susan Sourial CONTENTS Tursday, January 31, 2019 Page Presentations on Transportation Network Services ............................................................................................................. 199 Vancouver police department J. Rice Justice Institute of B.C. H. Randhawa Alejandro Henao A. Henao Steven Hill S. Hill Clark Lim C. Lim B.C. Federation of Labour L. Cronk San Francisco County Transportation Authority J. Castiglione Lyf J. Okpaku Garland Chow G. Chow Other Business........................................................................................................................................................................... 261 MINUTES Select Standing Committee on Crown Corporations Tursday, January 31, 2019 9:00 a.m. Room C150, UBC Robson Square 800 Robson Street, Vancouver, B.C. Present: Bowinn Ma, MLA (Chair); Stephanie Cadieux, MLA (Deputy Chair); Spencer Chandra Herbert, MLA; Jas Johal, MLA; Ravi Kahlon, MLA; Peter Milobar, MLA; Adam Olsen, MLA; Rachna Singh, MLA; Jordan Sturdy, MLA 1. Te Chair called the Committee to order at 9:03 a.m. 2. Opening remarks by Bowinn Ma, MLA, Chair. 3. Te following witnesses appeared before the Committee and answered questions: 1) Vancouver Police Department Sgt. Jef Rice 4. Te Committee recessed from 9:34 a.m. to 9:40 a.m. 2) Justice Institute of British Columbia Joan Glover Harry Randhawa 3) Dr. Alejandro Henao 5. Te Committee recessed from 11:17 a.m. to 11:25 a.m. 4) Steven Hill 6. Te Committee recessed from 12:01 p.m. to 1:02 p.m. 5) Clark Lim 6) BC Federation of Labour Laird Cronk Denise Mofatt 7) San Francisco County Transportation Authority Joe Castiglione 8) Lyf Joseph Okpaku 9) Garland Chow 7. Te Committee discussed questions to be posed to ICBC, Public Transportation Board and RoadSafetyBC. 8. Te Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair at 5:12 p.m. Bowinn Ma, MLA Susan Sourial Chair Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations 199 THURSDAY, JANUARY 31, 2019 S. Cadieux (Deputy Chair): Stephanie Cadieux, MLA, Surrey South. Te committee met at 9:03 a.m. S. Chandra Herbert: Spencer Chandra Herbert, MLA, [B. Ma in the chair.] Vancouver–West End, Coal Harbour. B. Ma (Chair): Good morning, everybody. My name is R. Singh: Rachna Singh, MLA, Surrey–Green Timbers. Bowinn Ma. I’m the MLA for North Vancouver–Lonsdale and the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Crown R. Kahlon: Ravi Kahlon, MLA, Delta North. Corporations. I’d like to begin by recognizing that our meet- ing today takes place in the traditional territory of the A. Olsen: Adam Olsen, MLA, Saanich North and the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. Islands. We are an all-party parliamentary committee of the Legis- lative Assembly with a mandate to examine, inquire into and B. Ma (Chair): Assisting the committee today are Susan make recommendations on regulations regarding transport- Sourial and Stephanie Raymond from the Parliamentary ation network services in British Columbia. We must issue a Committees Ofce. Steve Weisgerber and Simon DeLaat report by March 31, 2019. Te committee is meeting to hear from Hansard Services are also here to record the proceed- from expert witnesses on the following four questions: ings. Tank you so much for being here. (1) What criteria should be considered when establishing On behalf of the committee, I’d like to thank the pres- boundaries? enters who have taken the time to be with us today and (2) How should regulations balance the supply of service would like to introduce our frst presenter. First up we have with consumer demand, including the application of the Sgt. Jef Rice from the Vancouver police department, who Passenger Transportation Board’s current public conveni- will be joining us by teleconference. ence and necessity regime as it pertains to transportation Jef, do you have any questions before we begin? network services? (3) What criteria should be considered when establishing J. Rice: I don’t. I just have to say that I don’t have a price and fare regimes that balance afordability with reason- 25-minute presentation. It’s going to be relatively short. I’ve able business rates of return for service providers? just got some short answers to the questions that were posed. (4) What class of driver’s licence should be required for ride-hailing drivers to ensure a robust safety regime without B. Ma (Chair): Absolutely. creating an undue barrier for drivers? [9:05 a.m.] J. Rice: Ten I’ll be available for questions. In addition to the witnesses that you will hear from today and the witnesses that you heard from yesterday, over 700 B. Ma (Chair): Tat is no problem. Being succinct is not organizations — including municipalities; First Nations; taxi an issue here. All right. Please proceed. Ten we will follow companies; ride-hailing companies, including transporta- up with 20 minutes, plus whatever time you’ve lef from your tion network services; and disability advocacy organizations presentation, for questions. Go ahead. — have been invited to make written submissions covering these four questions. All of the information received will Presentations on be carefully considered by the committee as it prepares its Transportation Network Services report to the Legislative Assembly. Today’s meeting will consist of 25-minute presentations VANCOUVER POLICE DEPARTMENT followed by 20 minutes for questions from committee mem- bers. All meetings are recorded and transcribed by Hansard J. Rice: Okay. Tere are only four questions, but I can Services, and a complete transcript of the proceedings will be probably ofer real input on a couple of them, because it’s not posted on the committee’s website. Tese meetings are also our area of expertise. I’m sure the provincial government has broadcast as live audio via our website. researchers that are looking at where this has worked in oth- I will now ask the members of the committee to introduce er jurisdictions and how we can emulate best practices. themselves, beginning with the member for West Vancou- Having said that, with respect to the boundaries, I think ver–Sea to Sky. one of the issues we tried to resolve the last time I gave evid- ence was the difculty people have in getting home at certain J. Sturdy: Jordan Sturdy, West Vancouver–Sea to Sky. times of the day, when it’s raining. Supply doesn’t necessar- ily meet demand when it comes to getting people home in a J. Johal: Jas Johal, MLA, Richmond-Queensborough. timely manner. I think that the boundaries with the TNS companies could be counterproductive. Restricting somebody from only pick- 200 Crown Corporations Thursday, January 31, 2019 ing up in a very limited area, driving out to the suburbs and living in suburbs that need to get, obviously, back and forth. not being able to take somebody back is one of the problems Tat is my only response to that question. we’re trying to solve. So I think doing that overly restrictively Now, the one that you’re probably most interested in hear- would be counterproductive. ing from me would be the question about the class of driver’s I did do a little bit of research, and I’m sure you’ve done a licence that’s required. Our position would be that a class 4 lot more than me. An area like Toronto that requires a spe- commercial vehicle licence be required. Tat’s not a class 3, 2 cial permit to operate in a smaller area — I guess it’s not or 1, which qualifes you to drive bigger buses and transport that small; it includes Toronto and a couple of municipalities vehicles. Tis is for taxis, limousines and buses up to ten pas- immediately around Toronto — and a newer vehicle. I can sengers. only suspect that that’s to limit the number of vehicles that Tere are more restrictive requirements when it comes to are working in a particular area. I guess that would be one of driver history to obtain your class 4, which I think is the the considerations. most important aspect. You’re required to do an additional I’ve done some research on the Internet. I can’t tell you driver test and a couple of diferent tests, including a pre-trip whether or not Uber, Lyf or any of the other companies written test and a road sign test. cause congestion, but I suspect that that’s a reason they’ve I think the most important part of this would be restrict- limited that, to ensure that we don’t have an overabundance, ing the number of violations that a person can have over the too much supply, well above demand in a particular area, previous three years. With a class 4, you have to have few- which could cause more problems than it actually solves. er than four ofences that result in penalty points. Penalty I think that the basic thing about the boundaries is points are usually attached to moving violations, because restricting people from being able to move back and forth in those violations are more likely to cause accidents. a general area. So having a sort of regional permit or licence, I think if we’re inviting people to be on the road more, I think, would be ideal, allowing people to operate in that which is what we’re doing by allowing them to be a TNS general area.